| 00:05.02 | flailingmonkey | that will always get you |
| 00:05.03 | flailingmonkey | :) |
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| 00:14.44 | peterbjornxz | why does init "think" i want to change runlevel when i want it to boot the system |
| 00:18.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | what would make 'My Nokia" show up in settings though NotMyNokia pkg got installed and so far did a good job to hide it? |
| 00:27.38 | peterbjornxz | fixed it , didnt "exec" chroot |
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| 02:09.35 | Ken-Young | I am trying to make a Maemo 5 app change its behavior when another app has focus. I thought I could use focus-in-event and focus-out-event to signal when to change behaviors, but I get those events when my app's menu is selected and released. Is there a way of distinguishing between your app losing focus because another app has it, and your app losing focus because its menu is being selected? |
| 02:11.43 | Venemo_N950 | Ken-Young, you want to use WindowActivate and WindowDeactivate events |
| 02:13.18 | Ken-Young | Venemo_N950, Thanks! I'll look into those. |
| 02:13.53 | Ken-Young | Venemo_N950, Are those part of gtk? |
| 02:14.08 | Venemo_N950 | Ken-Young, omg... I was thinking Qt |
| 02:14.22 | Ken-Young | Zut, I'm not using Qt. |
| 02:14.24 | Venemo_N950 | I haven't the slightest idea about Gtk, sorry |
| 02:14.32 | Ken-Young | Thanks anyway. |
| 02:14.41 | Venemo_N950 | :0 |
| 02:14.43 | Venemo_N950 | sorry |
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| 02:20.30 | Ken-Young | It looks like I get a window-state-event when my app loses focus, but not when the app's menu is pulled down, so I might be able to use that. |
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| 03:02.40 | pigeon | is khweeteur still being maintained/developed? |
| 03:09.07 | SpeedEvil | khertan_: |
| 03:11.12 | Ken-Young | Does anyone know if it is possible for a Maemo 5 app to know if its menu is currently visible (pulled down)? |
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| 05:31.50 | Guest56670 | good morning |
| 05:32.01 | Guest56670 | fuu |
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| 06:15.01 | antman8969 | so when is the voting supposed to start for the competition!? |
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| 06:26.11 | frals | http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/16/nokias-n9-coming-to-kazakhstan-on-september-9th-gets-its-own-b/ |
| 06:26.24 | frals | "A tipster sent us flyer from Texhodom advertising the Swedish company's foray into Linux-powered smartphones as landing on September 9th for 99,990 Kazakh tenges, or about $679." |
| 06:26.27 | frals | <3 engadget |
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| 06:30.21 | SpeedEvil | #4 phone maker in all of kazakstan? |
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| 07:00.17 | jacekowski | have you heard that google bought motorla |
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| 07:00.20 | jacekowski | motorola* |
| 07:01.38 | Termana | jacekowski, since that seems directed at no one in particular, I'll answer yes. It's splashed everywhere, so it's hard for someone that's here not to know. |
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| 07:06.48 | rly | Can I ask a question about the n900 here? |
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| 07:07.59 | Sicelo | yeah |
| 07:08.01 | rly | I setup a wireless adhoc network on my laptop (iwlist scan returns 70/70 as the signal), but the n900 doesn't pick up the signal. Other access points are detected, however. |
| 07:08.28 | rly | I have no idea what might cause that other than that Ubuntu might not implement some protocol correctly. |
| 07:08.34 | rly | (which I doubt) |
| 07:08.55 | rly | (since iwlist scan uses the same standard under the hood, AFAIK) |
| 07:09.42 | dm8tbr | rly: wrong channel? |
| 07:10.11 | rly | dm8tbr: it is an n900 problem. |
| 07:10.26 | rly | dm8tbr: or rather, I think it is. |
| 07:10.51 | rly | dm8tbr: or do you mean wrong wireless channel? |
| 07:11.12 | rly | dm8tbr: in that case, I would expect it to rotate through all the channels. |
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| 07:14.01 | dm8tbr | rly: you might have a reg-dom mismatch |
| 07:14.41 | dm8tbr | rly: if your n900 is in 'international' and your AP e.g. europe or japan regdom and on channel 12/13/14 then it won't work. |
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| 07:15.33 | rly | dm8tbr: how can I see that? |
| 07:15.46 | jiero | wow, after applied battery patch, my N900 have average CPU time down 70% when standby. |
| 07:15.59 | rly | dm8tbr: I did not switch continents myself. |
| 07:16.03 | dm8tbr | rly: check the channels |
| 07:16.30 | rly | dm8tbr: my laptop sends at channel 1. |
| 07:17.20 | rly | dm8tbr: I don't know where the n900 is listening. |
| 07:18.22 | dm8tbr | rly: use 'osso-product-info' in the terminal |
| 07:18.26 | dm8tbr | that should tell you |
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| 07:19.25 | rly | Can I also disable the touch feedback without rooting it? |
| 07:20.30 | robbiethe1st | Yes, should be in preferences. But, um... 'rooting' the N900 isn't exactly an issue, or a problem - you just install a nokia-provided package(IIRC) and you've got a root shell when you want it |
| 07:20.34 | rly | Is there also a TAB button on the n900? |
| 07:20.45 | rly | (To get tab completion.) |
| 07:21.22 | robbiethe1st | No. At least, not by default. The terminal has a tab soft-button, but for other applications you'd need to edit the keyboard layout |
| 07:21.22 | rly | Found it |
| 07:21.24 | jaska | ctrl-i works |
| 07:21.32 | jaska | atleast for terminal |
| 07:21.39 | rly | Yes, there is a soft button. |
| 07:21.43 | rly | That program does not exist. |
| 07:22.13 | rly | Yes, but I first need to get wireless to work on the thing. |
| 07:23.10 | robbiethe1st | Uh, tap the top bar, tap 'Internet connection', tap your chosen wireless AP and you're done. |
| 07:23.27 | robbiethe1st | It'll then ask you to enter your password if the AP's locked, or just connect otherwisde |
| 07:23.32 | rly | robbiethe1st: the problem is that I don' t see the AP. |
| 07:23.38 | rly | robbiethe1st: (my laptop) |
| 07:23.42 | rly | robbiethe1st: I do see others. |
| 07:23.48 | robbiethe1st | Then you |
| 07:24.14 | dm8tbr | rly: checked the command? |
| 07:24.33 | robbiethe1st | You've misconfigured it on the laptop side, more than likely |
| 07:24.51 | rly | dm8tbr: I don't have that command. |
| 07:24.53 | robbiethe1st | My N900 shows both APs and ad-hoc networks in the list |
| 07:25.08 | rly | dm8tbr: I do have a whole list which starts with osso |
| 07:25.17 | rly | dm8tbr: but not containing product |
| 07:26.13 | robbiethe1st | Erm, what command are you looking for? |
| 07:26.13 | dm8tbr | 'osso-product-info' |
| 07:26.35 | rly | dm8tbr: I only have commands separated by _. |
| 07:26.43 | dm8tbr | that reports for mine: OSSO_PRODUCT_WLAN_CHANNEL='fcc/us' |
| 07:26.44 | rly | dm8tbr: and osso_product_info does not exist. |
| 07:27.03 | robbiethe1st | Erm, what are you trying to get from this command? |
| 07:27.41 | rly | robbiethe1st: dm8tbr wanted to see the output. |
| 07:27.49 | Sicelo | not underscores (_) rly , but dash (-) |
| 07:28.04 | robbiethe1st | Oh, hm. rly, go into the 'settings' app and click 'about product'; |
| 07:28.04 | rly | Sicelo: I know, but I don't have those commands listed with tab-completion. |
| 07:28.12 | robbiethe1st | Tell us the version string |
| 07:28.28 | robbiethe1st | More than likely you have an old version of the OS, which may not have those commands handy |
| 07:29.06 | rly | I found the command now. |
| 07:29.22 | rly | No idea why it didn't get listed/I missed it before. |
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| 07:29.40 | robbiethe1st | huh |
| 07:29.56 | rly | dm8tbr: for me it says the same, but I am in the EU. |
| 07:30.40 | rly | dm8tbr: the product region is for my country. |
| 07:30.51 | rly | dm8tbr: (the same as where the laptop comes from) |
| 07:31.27 | dm8tbr | rly: if it says 'fcc/us' then the available wifi channels for your n900 are limited to those permitted in the US. |
| 07:31.43 | dm8tbr | which is 1-11 |
| 07:31.57 | rly | dm8tbr: but the laptop reports 1. |
| 07:32.31 | rly | I have to go, but I will be back. |
| 07:32.43 | dm8tbr | rly: did other devices connect successfully? |
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| 07:57.25 | rly | dm8tbr: I don't have other devices here to test. |
| 07:57.41 | rly | Is there wireless reception any good on the n900, btw? |
| 07:58.06 | rly | I know that some other phones are pretty awful. |
| 07:58.17 | rly | (it is not the problem this time, obviously) |
| 07:59.01 | dm8tbr | rly: I'd recommend to double check your setup on your laptop. preferably use a second device and see if it connects |
| 07:59.20 | robbiethe1st | ^^ |
| 07:59.38 | rly | dm8tbr: iwlist scan does list it (isn't that one way of checking too?) |
| 08:00.02 | flailingmonkey | does the connect to a hidden wifi option work for ad-hoc? |
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| 08:06.03 | rly | No active IBSS STAs - trying to scan for other IBSS networks with same SSID |
| 08:06.09 | rly | What does that mean? |
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| 08:18.59 | Sicelo | maybe try to set up the ad-hoc network on your N900 instead, and have the laptop connect to it |
| 08:20.03 | Sicelo | less likely to go wrong... iwconfig and similar commands aren't the easiest, at least for me |
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| 08:30.06 | moxy | Hi |
| 08:30.23 | rly | Sicelo: I don't have a wireless AP. I try to setup one via my laptop. |
| 08:30.44 | rly | Sicelo: when I select the 5GHz band it is listed on my n900. |
| 08:30.57 | rly | Sicelo: it also says it is connected, but no bits go through it. |
| 08:33.27 | rly | now I got some bits |
| 08:33.32 | Sicelo | what i mean is.. make a new Setting/Connection on your N900, set the Mode to Ad-Hoc, giving an IP address, etc.. then from Status, connect to it. from your laptop you should then be able to see the N900 |
| 08:33.38 | Sicelo | ah, ok :) |
| 08:34.04 | rly | Let's hope I can get access to the manual now, so I can get an idea of how this thing works :) |
| 08:34.21 | Sicelo | by the way, some connection manager on laptop, eg, Gnome-Network-Manager could make things easy |
| 08:34.37 | rly | Sicelo: I used that, but I needed the 5Ghz band |
| 08:34.43 | rly | Sicelo: on 2.4 it didn't work |
| 08:34.53 | rly | Sicelo: by default it is auto, which oddly also did not work |
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| 08:35.49 | rly | Is there also a zoom button gesture like on the IPhone? |
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| 08:38.04 | flailingmonkey | N900 definitely doesn't support 5GHz band |
| 08:38.16 | psycho_oreos | 5GHz band, wtf.. N900 is only equipped with 802.11b/g wireless chipset which can only do 2.4GHz. I don't know where you're coming from with 5GHz unless you hacked the radio |
| 08:38.31 | psycho_oreos | either that or you've been smoking too much crack :P |
| 08:38.39 | flailingmonkey | who knows |
| 08:38.40 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/16/cookie_respawning_secrets_revealed/ |
| 08:41.11 | rly | flailingmonkey: well, I did select it in the Gnome menu. |
| 08:42.18 | rly | flailingmonkey: I just checked it and it says Band A (5GHz) |
| 08:42.46 | flailingmonkey | it's possible it didn't actually do what the gnome network manager was trying to do |
| 08:43.08 | psycho_oreos | N900 doesn't come with a gnome UI, unless you're referring to your laptop or some other computer. N900 as said by at least 2 people now that it does not support 5GHz |
| 08:43.22 | rly | psycho_oreos: I was referring to my laptop. |
| 08:43.45 | rly | psycho_oreos: the n900 did not see the connection when the gnome gui was set to 2.4. |
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| 08:43.57 | rly | I certainly believe that gnome has bugs. |
| 08:44.00 | psycho_oreos | and if you're talking about your laptop/computer, its your laptop that can't support 802.11b/g which means you don't have much other choice apart from buying a wireless chipset capable of communicating on 2.4GHz ISM band |
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| 08:44.16 | psycho_oreos | hmm |
| 08:44.50 | psycho_oreos | its not particularly hard to setup wireless connection via CLI either |
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| 08:45.46 | rly | I am happy that it works. At this point I don't particularly care anymore as to how. |
| 08:45.55 | rly | I will care about that later. |
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| 08:48.01 | psycho_oreos | then its a bug that's not related to maemo/N900 :p |
| 08:49.25 | rly | psycho_oreos: are you just another user or are you affiliated with nokia? |
| 08:49.46 | psycho_oreos | rly, just another user |
| 08:50.03 | rly | psycho_oreos: but an experienced one, I suppose? |
| 08:50.29 | psycho_oreos | I hardly think any nokia affiliated personnels would be keen on still providing support to their own abandoned `pet' project |
| 08:50.58 | rly | I don't get why they killed it. |
| 08:51.03 | psycho_oreos | rly, can't say I'm really experienced, but enough experience. That plus wireless networking is somewhat my forte |
| 08:51.26 | rly | I have only heard positive stories about the device from my environment. |
| 08:51.52 | jacekowski | rly: there was not much software for N900 |
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| 08:52.04 | jacekowski | rly: device was fine |
| 08:52.08 | jacekowski | rly: software not so much |
| 08:52.37 | psycho_oreos | because it gained little attraction and didn't give them that much turnover. You could probably say that its kinda like how bugatti veyron was made. Each device made was like an extra cost for them, obviously they never made maemo completely mainstream as a phone device and N900 being the only one capable of cellular connectivity, launched well after iphone made its killings and now being abandoned probably due to poor sales |
| 08:53.30 | psycho_oreos | N900 is flexible, no doubt. The only thing that turned people away was the fact that it looked rather bulky and as jacekowski the software was also a fairly big issue (it can be somewhat user unfriendly) |
| 08:54.27 | rly | Nowadays you can put Android on it, right? |
| 08:54.38 | rly | Not that I plan to do that immediately. |
| 08:54.42 | psycho_oreos | its called nitdroid, and its not well developed |
| 08:55.27 | Venemo_N950 | hey rly, seems that I'm late to the discussion, what is this all about? |
| 08:55.29 | psycho_oreos | the basics I believe works but you shouldn't expect that nitdroid can fully turn your N900 into a complete android phone. It still has missing key functionalities that regular android phones would have |
| 08:55.42 | kerio | no u |
| 08:55.43 | rly | Venemo_N950: nothing terribly important. |
| 08:55.47 | jacekowski | rly: no rapuyama support in android |
| 08:55.48 | kerio | and patches welcome |
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| 08:55.55 | kerio | and gimme your N950 |
| 08:56.00 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 08:56.09 | kerio | i want one :( |
| 08:56.16 | psycho_oreos | don't we all :p |
| 08:56.22 | rly | Is there anything else besides blueman on Ubuntu? |
| 08:56.40 | rly | I get some traceback (aren't dynamic languages great?). |
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| 08:56.48 | rly | (for setting up Bluetooth) |
| 08:57.27 | psycho_oreos | heh I only have xubuntu (ancient copy, 9.04) on me desktop but the PSU died ages ago and I haven't replaced it. So I'm still stuck with me archlinux lappy |
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| 08:57.36 | kerio | arch ._. |
| 08:57.39 | rly | Stuck or happy? |
| 08:57.49 | jacekowski | rly: and with no rapuyama support there is no phone |
| 08:57.53 | psycho_oreos | I had some bluetooth software going before but it never worked with my BH-905 headset |
| 08:57.55 | jacekowski | rly: and without phone there is no interwebs |
| 08:58.03 | kerio | arch is l33tspeak for "i can't install debian" |
| 08:58.09 | rly | What is rapuyama? |
| 08:58.19 | jacekowski | modem |
| 08:58.20 | psycho_oreos | stuck, not that I'm keen on making a living with a laptop and dead weight desktops sitting on the table. |
| 08:58.28 | jacekowski | thing that connects n900 to outside world |
| 08:58.40 | rly | jacekowski: heh, I know what a modem is. |
| 08:58.45 | psycho_oreos | arch is for those who think debian = old man |
| 08:58.50 | psycho_oreos | rather frail |
| 08:58.59 | jacekowski | rly: so if you install android you only have wifi |
| 08:59.09 | Venemo_N950 | kerio, you'd have to kill someone to get it. |
| 08:59.37 | rly | jacekowski: in theory you can call via wifi via skype to anywhere. |
| 08:59.48 | rly | jacekowski: no idea whether it actually works... |
| 08:59.53 | psycho_oreos | or even voip (if that works) |
| 09:00.04 | jacekowski | yeah, but wifi isn't everywhere |
| 09:00.20 | psycho_oreos | and neither is that freely accessible either :) |
| 09:00.38 | jacekowski | so you may just as well buy N8x0 |
| 09:00.41 | rly | It would be so much better if it was. |
| 09:01.01 | psycho_oreos | or you get guaranteed bandwidth (i.e. in a busy area like airport with heavy internet users, you're going to be lagging when talking to someone else over wifi) |
| 09:01.59 | psycho_oreos | though in the second and third case scenario, there are workarounds (rather evil workarounds for third case) |
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| 09:02.47 | rly | psycho_oreos: like what? |
| 09:03.36 | psycho_oreos | rly, http://www.knownokia.ca/2010/09/quiet-response-to-n900-laughs.html |
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| 09:05.49 | rly | psycho_oreos: can I also connect to a WPA2 AP? |
| 09:06.10 | rly | psycho_oreos: in the menu (on the n900) there is no such option. |
| 09:06.20 | rly | (just WEP or nothing) |
| 09:06.28 | Venemo_N950 | yes you can |
| 09:06.30 | psycho_oreos | rly, normally? yes if you have all the right credentials |
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| 09:07.01 | rly | How? I am in the menu for setting up a connection. |
| 09:08.08 | rly | Perhaps I need a software upgrade to do that? |
| 09:08.13 | psycho_oreos | there should be at least 3 options excluding WEP and including None |
| 09:08.34 | psycho_oreos | yeah if you can only see two choices you probably am running ancient firmware on your N900 |
| 09:09.01 | rly | Likely. Where can I get the newest (or rather something you recommend)? |
| 09:09.09 | psycho_oreos | ~flash |
| 09:09.10 | infobot | from memory, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 09:09.25 | psycho_oreos | its all well explained there ^ ^ |
| 09:09.42 | rly | Is this a 'tablet'? |
| 09:09.56 | psycho_oreos | yes |
| 09:10.13 | rly | These descriptions assume that you are using the latest official images. This page is not exactly a step-by-step instruction, so better read the whole page prior to starting the flashing process. |
| 09:10.21 | rly | This assumption already does not hold in my case. |
| 09:10.46 | psycho_oreos | well nothing won't help you if you couldn't adapt |
| 09:10.50 | rly | But I would hope that the flashing instructions did not change. |
| 09:11.00 | rly | I flashed other devices before. |
| 09:11.33 | rly | If other people understood those instructions, I should be able too. Thanks. |
| 09:11.43 | psycho_oreos | if you flashed other NIT devices, N900 should be a piece of cake |
| 09:13.02 | Sicelo | not difficult at all. flashed mine first evening i had it, without any problems |
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| 09:13.52 | rly | What does NIT stand for? |
| 09:14.09 | psycho_oreos | I flashed mine when I bricked mine (I think it was 2 weeks from when I bought it). Extremely easy if you're familiar with CLI environment |
| 09:14.14 | psycho_oreos | Nokia Internet Tablet |
| 09:14.21 | Sicelo | Nokia Internet Tablet |
| 09:14.40 | rly | Can I also backup via USB? |
| 09:14.47 | rly | Instead of another SD card? |
| 09:14.58 | psycho_oreos | define backup |
| 09:15.06 | rly | There is a 'Backup' application. |
| 09:15.33 | jiero | Nokia Internet Tablet ？ Can I have it? |
| 09:15.40 | rly | Ok, I think I will just first read the manual and then do something more complicated. |
| 09:15.40 | psycho_oreos | yeah its osso-backup, which is rather limited in its own ways and from memory it stores backed up data into your eMMC |
| 09:15.50 | psycho_oreos | jiero, you already own one :p |
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| 09:16.15 | jiero | psycho_oreos: :)b I want a larger one. |
| 09:17.21 | psycho_oreos | there's another way, which is to use robbiethe1st's backupmenu. It can do a complete backup and unlike osso-backup, the whole restoration could take place offline and you retain all your previously installed programs. osso-backup requires HAM later on if you want to restore your previously installed programs |
| 09:18.00 | psycho_oreos | jiero, well I don't personally own any other NIT devices, There are 3 other generations of NIT apart from N950 (which is not publicly available) and N9 (which is not released) |
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| 09:18.31 | psycho_oreos | probably one of the other 3 might be bigger than N900 (but slightly I bet) |
| 09:18.56 | rly | You lose all warranty just because you add WPA2 support? |
| 09:19.34 | psycho_oreos | you don't need to add WPA2 support, WPA option under latest firmware works with with WPA and WPA2 |
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| 09:19.58 | rly | psycho_oreos: that's what I meant by 'add'. |
| 09:20.13 | rly | psycho_oreos: I don't have the latest firmware. |
| 09:20.14 | jiero | psycho_oreos: Looking forward a new Nokia Tablet ;D to compete with iPads. |
| 09:20.26 | Arkenoi | wpa works just fine on n900 (though wep+peap does not) |
| 09:20.26 | rly | I was referring to http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php |
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| 09:21.37 | psycho_oreos | rly, then you should reflash your device to the latest firmware, and no I don't quite understand when you said you were referring to the link which contains the firmwares |
| 09:22.04 | psycho_oreos | jiero, bleh and it won't even be running maemo |
| 09:23.07 | jiero | psycho_oreos: Maybe Maemo 6?Meego harmattan? |
| 09:23.39 | psycho_oreos | jiero, only time will tell |
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| 09:24.53 | ruskie | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/08/mad-about-metered-billing-they-were-in-1886-too.ars |
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| 09:26.40 | rly | If I go to the url where the usermanual is supposed to be, it is not there anymore. That's also pretty bad. |
| 09:26.54 | rly | Instead it redirects to swipe.nokia.com |
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| 09:28.01 | psycho_oreos | goes to show how nokia treats its own maemo fans |
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| 09:58.05 | lupine_85 | shiny shiny new N900 :) |
| 09:58.49 | Cor-Ai | give! |
| 09:58.58 | lupine_85 | noes, it is mine |
| 09:59.04 | lupine_85 | and I had to fight nokia tooth and nail to get it |
| 09:59.11 | Cor-Ai | but i whant it! |
| 09:59.20 | Cor-Ai | haha |
| 10:00.14 | lupine_85 | :) |
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| 10:00.23 | lupine_85 | buys some screen protectors |
| 10:00.47 | lupine_85 | the one that was replaced on warranty was *pretty scratched* |
| 10:00.50 | psycho_oreos | what's so good about a shiny N900... when you have two N900 in your hands? :) |
| 10:01.19 | lcuk | having 2 n900s in your hands which have apps working together is better |
| 10:01.35 | lupine_85 | anyway, I am now convinced that nokia have a warehouse filled with these things and they're just trying to fob people off with E7/N8 so they don't have to support them in their bright new future |
| 10:01.47 | lupine_85 | it's that, or *really* lousy stock control |
| 10:02.28 | psycho_oreos | lcuk, well nothing is perfect when maemo itself is already flaky on fremantle to begin with. At least having the actual physical hardware is good enough :) |
| 10:03.01 | lupine_85 | eh, the hardware isn't great, from my point of view |
| 10:03.02 | psycho_oreos | should probably also send some pictures/photos as proof :P |
| 10:03.19 | lupine_85 | the software is alright. it has apt |
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| 10:03.36 | snamuss | ja jo |
| 10:03.52 | Cor-Ai | jo ja |
| 10:03.52 | psycho_oreos | the hardware imo is almost better than iphone 3GS (comparing to a device that was only released months earlier, no point comparing with devices released these days) |
| 10:04.06 | psycho_oreos | err in every single way |
| 10:04.14 | lupine_85 | no, the hardware is fragile and the CPU is too slow |
| 10:04.28 | lupine_85 | the screen resolution is also quite poor and the keyboard, while reasonable, isn't amazing |
| 10:04.46 | snamuss | on what device? |
| 10:04.48 | lupine_85 | it doesn't make it a *bad* device, mind. it's a very good one |
| 10:04.50 | lupine_85 | N900 |
| 10:04.52 | jiero | Looks like iPhone 3GS is still the best music phone :D? |
| 10:05.04 | psycho_oreos | CPU is faster than iphone 3GS in coremark comparison. iphone 3GS doesn't even have hardware keyboard |
| 10:05.22 | lupine_85 | yes, I don't have a 3GS |
| 10:05.32 | lupine_85 | from my point of view, a 3210 is better than one of those |
| 10:05.36 | snamuss | but isnt it about the software anyway? |
| 10:05.41 | lupine_85 | jas |
| 10:05.55 | snamuss | while iphonez users jailbreak... you know |
| 10:05.56 | psycho_oreos | let alone an universal microUSB connector which literally every other phone manufacturer has to pretty much produce on their phones. Apple continues to blissfully ignore that |
| 10:06.11 | Arkenoi | the only thing that really really sucked in n900 is 256Mb RAM |
| 10:06.19 | jiero | lol how, iPhone 3GS have a 600Mhz CPU, and N900 only 500Mhz? |
| 10:06.31 | robbiethe1st | N900's 600mhz stock as well |
| 10:06.37 | lupine_85 | ja |
| 10:06.42 | psycho_oreos | I don't have iphone 3GS either but I can see that had nokia released N900 earlier than iphone 3GS |
| 10:06.42 | jiero | no, its 500mhz. |
| 10:06.43 | lupine_85 | still too slow |
| 10:06.46 | snamuss | overclock? |
| 10:06.47 | robbiethe1st | Also, 256 mb of ram is the only problem... but it can be worked around with some tweaking |
| 10:06.56 | fortytwo | Clock speed isn't everything anyway |
| 10:06.57 | psycho_oreos | jiero, its not 500MHz, it runs 600MHz stock |
| 10:07.09 | robbiethe1st | And yea, OC + swap-tweaking + improved transitions... you can have a device that really flies |
| 10:07.16 | psycho_oreos | err it would have been better.. ffs I need to stop hitting enter too quickly |
| 10:07.30 | jiero | psycho_oreos: I read some article yesterday, it says 600Mhz max, normally 500Mhz. |
| 10:07.42 | lupine_85 | psycho_oreos, mine is currently advertising 499BogoMIPS |
| 10:07.49 | lupine_85 | well,499.92 |
| 10:07.59 | robbiethe1st | It automatically goes between 600mhz and 250, depending on load |
| 10:08.12 | robbiethe1st | also, it will sleep at 0mhz for small fractions of a second whe idle |
| 10:08.13 | dm8tbr | and bogomips are as the name says: bogus |
| 10:08.30 | dm8tbr | and only calculated exactly once during boot IIRC |
| 10:08.34 | psycho_oreos | jiero, that article is lying. N900 coming out of the box runs 600MHz under full load without overclocking. There has been people running what 1GHz (overclocked with power kernel) on N900 |
| 10:09.08 | snamuss | did the battery take a huge hit because of that? |
| 10:09.14 | psycho_oreos | lupine_85, I'm not using bogoMIPS to calculate. I compiled coremark to run on N900 and the scores came out higher (albeit slightly) compared to iphone 3GS |
| 10:09.16 | Shapeshifter | lupine_85: huh, the n900 has a bad resolution? Are you kidding me? It's an incredibly sharp display, especially enxt to all those newfangled crap OLED pentile displays that have only 2/3 of the resolution. |
| 10:09.17 | jiero | psycho_oreos: I knew what you mean:P |
| 10:09.43 | psycho_oreos | jiero, yet you were trying to spread FUD on iphone's superiority? ;) |
| 10:09.45 | robbiethe1st | Shapeshifter: Amen |
| 10:10.52 | lupine_85 | psycho_oreos, what is your obsession with the 3GS? I don't care how it compares to the 3GS. my judgement was not a comparative one |
| 10:11.03 | lupine_85 | ShadowJK, 800x480 is OK, but not great |
| 10:11.19 | robbiethe1st | I'd like a 1024x600 LCD screen, but... |
| 10:11.25 | lupine_85 | I'm not unhappy with the hardware - if I were, I'd have taken the E7 and sold it and bought a tablet |
| 10:11.28 | robbiethe1st | I don't see them in the <6" form factor |
| 10:11.41 | jiero | Anybody can port this game? http://www.lgdb.org/game/berusky_2_bugs_escape_3d |
| 10:12.02 | lupine_85 | I probably won't be happy until I've got 4 cores and 1920x1200 |
| 10:12.05 | psycho_oreos | lupine_85, rather anti-obsession :p I was merely comparing 3GS which was officially released a few months before N900's official release |
| 10:12.11 | jiero | I want it, its so pretty and require only TNT2 to run. |
| 10:12.29 | Shapeshifter | lupine_85: uh, right |
| 10:12.42 | robbiethe1st | I dunno. 250dpi's about as good as I want on a screen, beyond that it gets hard to see the individual pixels. |
| 10:13.27 | robbiethe1st | N900 screen's nice and sharp, and I can /just/ make out the pixels. So... just need that + more screen space for more res. |
| 10:14.01 | lupine_85 | I did semi-seriously consider getting a tablet and doing phone calls through it using SIP+bluetooth headset |
| 10:14.37 | lupine_85 | in the end, having it fit in my pocket was slightly more important than my unrealistic hardware expectations |
| 10:15.59 | flailingmonkey | lupine_85: why pocket? tablet should just wrap around your bicep for easy transport |
| 10:16.05 | flailingmonkey | =P |
| 10:17.08 | lupine_85 | :p |
| 10:17.21 | lupine_85 | flexible circuit boards *are* coming |
| 10:17.53 | lupine_85 | in 20 years or so, I expect to be able to fold my home PC up and stick it in my pocket |
| 10:18.13 | robbiethe1st | ...at which point it'll melt your pocket and give you 3rd degree burns! |
| 10:18.45 | radiofree | and after a week your home pc will end up like this http://www.unenlightenedenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/crumpled-paper.jpg |
| 10:18.46 | psycho_oreos | meh, VR glasses/holographic images ftw |
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| 10:20.31 | *** join/#maemo deimos (~deimos@host118-70-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:21.37 | flailingmonkey | why bother creating actual or virtual images, neural interface is the only way to fly |
| 10:21.44 | flailingmonkey | that's when you can say |
| 10:21.51 | flailingmonkey | "NOW we're cooking with gas!" |
| 10:21.52 | snamuss | has anyone here overclocked their n900? if so, was it worth it? |
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| 10:22.36 | psycho_oreos | neural interfaces could probably be at least a few more decades down the track |
| 10:23.42 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~yuki@121.54.2.104) |
| 10:23.54 | Arkenoi | snamuss, me. yes. |
| 10:24.26 | Hurrian | copying 2G of music to the N900 over wifi. |
| 10:24.29 | Hurrian | this is painfully slow. |
| 10:24.29 | flailingmonkey | mind / machine comes after neural. neural just simulates input at neural level, then mind/machine is where your actual mind starts incorporating technology. you can just "know" the data provided to you |
| 10:24.43 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, and rather somewhat a bad idea :) |
| 10:25.34 | flailingmonkey | Hurrian: that's a start and walk away procedure. if you give it an hour or so it should get done :p |
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| 10:26.04 | Hurrian | flailingmonkey, started around 6PM, it's 6:25 now, and du -chs says 1.1GB |
| 10:26.12 | Hurrian | 1 hour should be about right |
| 10:27.11 | jiero | Anybody port the MIUI android? looks much faster than normal one. |
| 10:27.11 | psycho_oreos | N900 will get rather warm after maybe several hours of heavy wifi usage :) |
| 10:27.44 | Hurrian | jiero, no one porting it |
| 10:28.13 | Hurrian | if you want, take nitdroid's patches to AOSP 2.3.4/5 and apply them to miui |
| 10:28.23 | Hurrian | afaik, most of the heavy work is in the kernel |
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| 10:28.39 | Shapeshifter | It's a good thing that apparently my carrier isn't enforcing that throttling... I'm way over the 2gb quota already. |
| 10:29.04 | psycho_oreos | and you're not going to get charged for exceeding the quota either? :) |
| 10:29.54 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, the N900 gets warm after a few minutes in nano |
| 10:30.42 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, lol ouch, I hardly use nano myself though |
| 10:31.35 | jiero | A breaking news. a new android device released. UNBEATABLE PRICE... Dual core 1.5Ghz, 4“ ALMOND, 1G RAM cost 2000RMB/1600RMB, around $260 , brand new... |
| 10:31.53 | robbiethe1st | Suuure. |
| 10:32.44 | Hurrian | >android |
| 10:32.47 | Hurrian | do not want |
| 10:32.52 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:32.56 | jiero | And it have different android |
| 10:33.00 | Hurrian | in before the 1.5GHz core is rockchip |
| 10:33.07 | jiero | it dual boot android and its own system |
| 10:33.34 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 10:34.02 | jiero | They developed a system called miui, now their device arrived... |
| 10:35.13 | robbiethe1st | wants 5" 1024x600 phone, Intel moorestown proc, dual-replacable batteries and HW keyboard with an Open bootloader |
| 10:35.21 | psycho_oreos | the ones running on android are ok, its the ones running on symbian is the ones you want to avoid :) |
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| 10:37.24 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, for a phone OS, i'd take symbian over android any day of the week |
| 10:37.36 | Hurrian | in fact, i'd use S60 3rd Edition FP1/2 |
| 10:38.27 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, eww I'd much prefer a workable linux core with decent userland tools rather than a heavily locked down platform with locked bootloader and hardly any decent userland tools |
| 10:38.29 | jiero | Hurrian: sure Nokia should launch a phone dual boot symbian and other |
| 10:39.03 | jiero | why symbian stopped, because Nokia worry developers not following up with their WP7? |
| 10:39.13 | Trewas | dual booting phones, they would surely take over the whole world! |
| 10:39.17 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, i said phone OS, not mobile computer os |
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| 10:40.42 | jiero | Trewas: then a fast way to switch, 4 seconds switch OS...:P |
| 10:40.43 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, that's what I meant.. though I've not played with symbian on mobile computers (and wouldn't want to imagine playing with one either). My previous phone was N95-1 (with Symbian S60 3rd Edition FP1 I think) |
| 10:41.57 | psycho_oreos | and I still vaguely recall my qualms with N95, even with the insane obsession with the need to have every damn package signed before they can be installed |
| 10:42.27 | Shapeshifter | my previous phone was an ericsson T39m |
| 10:42.37 | Shapeshifter | that thing was small and proper |
| 10:42.41 | Trewas | jiero: a nice marketing slogan for a dual booting phone could be something like "we can't make one good phone OS, so you'll get two bad ones" |
| 10:42.42 | psycho_oreos | probably similar to the way nokia made N950 behave now (maybe may even infect N9), with aegis |
| 10:43.31 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, i used to own a plum+silver N95-1, helloox solved all my problems ;) |
| 10:43.32 | jiero | Trewas: it also says: one way you can standby 50 days, one way you enjoy a whole day:D |
| 10:43.37 | rly | How do I know which release I need to select on the firmware images page? I want the newest that is clear, but I don't know whether I have the global release or the USA release. |
| 10:43.46 | psycho_oreos | I had a sony ericsson mobile once, was really lame and eventually it died. Never wanted a phone like that ever again (and will never now because of Sony's insane addiction with DRM/SCMS) |
| 10:43.57 | rly | So, where can I see which release I currently have? |
| 10:44.08 | Hurrian | RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin = PR1.3 Global |
| 10:44.13 | robbiethe1st | Either will work |
| 10:44.29 | robbiethe1st | Go with global unless you're in the USA |
| 10:44.54 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, yup had that with ROMpatcher, etc. Though it really does lack power tools, like I can't go into some sort of terminal mode (python is not an answer here) and write up some nifty commands |
| 10:45.20 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, tried a SE phone once, screen resolution was the absolute worst, either that or the system font wasn't as nice as nokia sans |
| 10:45.24 | psycho_oreos | rly, osso-product-version, settings -> About product, *#0000# |
| 10:45.45 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, SE as in security enhanced? |
| 10:45.50 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N950_ (~venemo@host-94-248-201-148.kabelnet.hu) |
| 10:46.00 | Hurrian | sony ericsson. |
| 10:46.11 | psycho_oreos | ahh |
| 10:46.43 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-vtegmeufbveosouj) |
| 10:46.48 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
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| 10:47.08 | Hurrian | man, it is a huge pain to work with only 3.5in of screen space on the N900 |
| 10:47.21 | Hurrian | i'd love 4 inches. |
| 10:47.25 | psycho_oreos | wait.. T39mc, isn't that the flip phone? that was a proper Ericsson phone that I used to own. Too bad its gone somewhere in the dump. I had a Sony Ericsson phone following T39mc (iirc) and it kept crashing, stupid device really |
| 10:47.47 | Shapeshifter | psycho_oreos: yes, the T39m was pure ericsson and it was quite neat. flip with an aerial |
| 10:48.02 | Shapeshifter | it had the bluetooths :> |
| 10:48.24 | Shapeshifter | I had two of them, one died |
| 10:48.29 | Shapeshifter | then I bought the n900 |
| 10:48.39 | Shapeshifter | Now I have two N900s... |
| 10:48.40 | psycho_oreos | Shapeshifter, fyi I personally deem that as Ericsson not Sony Ericsson, it was the first few lots of Sony Ericsson phones were really shit imo |
| 10:49.00 | Shapeshifter | yep, sony ericsson is pretty terrible |
| 10:49.08 | psycho_oreos | and yes that was a rather nice phone. I used to remember spending days on end chatting on that phone |
| 10:49.21 | psycho_oreos | phone = Ericsson T39mc |
| 10:49.36 | psycho_oreos | and yeah now I have two N900, one N95-1 |
| 10:49.42 | Shapeshifter | It was also neat how the battery plugged right into the back of the phone |
| 10:49.45 | Shapeshifter | without a cover |
| 10:49.51 | Hurrian | in the philippines, people went to SE and Moto for the nicer-looking phones |
| 10:49.53 | Shapeshifter | saving space |
| 10:50.01 | Hurrian | wait exactly one month, they'd be back to Nokia |
| 10:50.20 | psycho_oreos | the LED lights were really fancy, though it was a carry over design from T29 which I never personally owned but me parents have had them |
| 10:51.10 | Shapeshifter | yeah. |
| 10:51.31 | Shapeshifter | hey, it had bluetooth and HSCSD |
| 10:51.56 | Shapeshifter | and infra red, all in such a tiny package ;) |
| 10:53.25 | psycho_oreos | me mum had Sony Ericsson Z520i, the charger one day decided to shit itself. So the phone was never used since. Recently I started tinkering around with it (even though it was meant to be chucked into the bin ages ago) and use a different charger which had a much higher amp rating than the original and authentic charger. Guess what, the phone worked for few moments briefly before it killed itself (probably fried the circuits). Mum had an old Nokia 3230, us |
| 10:53.25 | psycho_oreos | ed the same charger (no not the authentic one, which had much lower amp rating) and tried charging the phone with it, it wouldn't charge. |
| 10:53.32 | psycho_oreos | WAP as well |
| 10:54.19 | psycho_oreos | something tells me Sony Ericsson phones probably didn't have BME unlike Nokia lol |
| 10:55.16 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 10:55.32 | Shapeshifter | ;) |
| 10:55.36 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@host85-62-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:55.36 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@Maemo/community/contributor/Andy80) |
| 10:57.04 | psycho_oreos | ahh well, after meego with nokia it'll be mango, that'll be fun for any hardcore nokia fan :) |
| 10:57.48 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-ghbxfpvpwovqrawr) |
| 11:01.10 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, that's why S40 still exists ;) |
| 11:02.14 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, *shudders* thankfully not for me, once meego is dead from nokia I'll jump the bridge just like every other person who did :) |
| 11:02.24 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, hehe |
| 11:02.29 | ruskie | depends what you want |
| 11:02.37 | ruskie | frankly meego so far looks like crap for me |
| 11:02.51 | Corsac | the nokia meego or the intel meego? |
| 11:02.57 | ruskie | the handset ux |
| 11:03.12 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 11:03.22 | ruskie | not even considering the n9 stuff |
| 11:03.26 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@proxy.edinst.com) |
| 11:03.49 | psycho_oreos | indeed, I'm just too addicted to linux's userland power tools. If I had to put up with linux CLI, I wouldn't mind. If I were to be stuck with a GUI that tells me what to do and what to not do I'd throw it in the fire |
| 11:04.27 | psycho_oreos | Corsac, nokia meego, intel hasn't made any phones running meego anyway, apart from making moorestown which was used in the case of Aava mobile |
| 11:05.15 | Hurrian | ah, i'll probably just build a phone from a gumstix board |
| 11:05.41 | psycho_oreos | I thought you'd stick to symbian Hurrian lol |
| 11:06.02 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, i need a mobile computer with a phone strapped on to it |
| 11:06.23 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, what about openmoko for instance? ;) |
| 11:06.55 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, not enough performance |
| 11:07.02 | psycho_oreos | tries to recall other names but the words are quickly escaping from his memory the moment he tries to recall |
| 11:07.34 | ruskie | hehe |
| 11:07.35 | Hurrian | 3g usb dongle + battery + speakers + huge touchscreen + crazy fast SD card + Linux = phone |
| 11:07.40 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, heh ouch |
| 11:07.44 | Hurrian | oh, and lots of duct tape |
| 11:07.56 | Hurrian | lots and lots of duct tape |
| 11:08.15 | psycho_oreos | oh.. what about cordia? :D |
| 11:09.39 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, what about ubuntu, gentoo and meego+cordia? |
| 11:09.47 | psycho_oreos | tablet + SIM capable + wifi + huge touchscreen (compared against N900) + maemo UI lookalike interface |
| 11:09.57 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, I meant cordiatab |
| 11:10.10 | Hurrian | ah |
| 11:10.17 | Hurrian | too big for me |
| 11:10.44 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@proxy.edinst.com) |
| 11:10.49 | psycho_oreos | and looks more refined than having too much duct tapes ;) |
| 11:11.31 | vi__ | sorry, lost connection |
| 11:11.38 | vi__ | did anyone answer? |
| 11:11.47 | vi__ | n810, can it be ovdrclocked? |
| 11:11.51 | *** join/#maemo jiero (~jie@110-174-150-114.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:13.14 | Hurrian | vi, doesn't the N810 cap out the chip at around 400MHz? |
| 11:13.56 | Hurrian | instead of passing everything thru framebuffer, time to figure out how to use PowerVR MBX inside ;) |
| 11:14.07 | Hurrian | *software framebuffer |
| 11:14.33 | xkr47 | gl |
| 11:15.32 | vi__ | Hurrian: i have no idea |
| 11:16.03 | vi__ | was considering aquiring an n810 for it's slim mobile computerness |
| 11:18.09 | Venemo | vi__, I wouldn't expect much from an N810 in 2011. |
| 11:18.40 | Hurrian | Venemo, I traded my N95 for a N810, everything is just peachy |
| 11:19.10 | Hurrian | i wouldn't mind if i had a N900 with that screen size |
| 11:19.18 | Venemo | mhm |
| 11:19.23 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, fyi... too much duct tape over all the things you want in a phone = http://mypetfat.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/29/5.jpg |
| 11:19.29 | Corsac | I find the n810 too large |
| 11:19.35 | jiero | I do want N900 4" inch or 7 inch... |
| 11:19.40 | Venemo | well, N950 is almost an N900 with N810 screen size. |
| 11:19.58 | Corsac | yeah |
| 11:20.01 | Corsac | too large |
| 11:20.10 | Corsac | (for me) |
| 11:20.11 | Venemo | as for a 7 inch version, see the http://cordiatab.com/ |
| 11:20.23 | vi__ | Venemo: well NO ONE HAS A F^***** n950 have tehy |
| 11:20.36 | Venemo | vi__, I have. |
| 11:20.46 | vi__ | well booly for you |
| 11:20.47 | jiero | Venemo: WOW |
| 11:20.57 | jiero | <3:g |
| 11:21.03 | vi__ | maybe the rest of us plebs might see a picture |
| 11:21.20 | psycho_oreos | jiero, cordiatab ;) |
| 11:21.33 | vi__ | cordiatab |
| 11:21.36 | Venemo | I was busy developing my apps, didn't take many pics |
| 11:21.37 | vi__ | orly? |
| 11:22.08 | jiero | psycho_oreos: thank you too |
| 11:22.44 | Corsac | Venemo: is it mor than vaporware right now? :) |
| 11:23.15 | Venemo | Corsac, what do you mean? |
| 11:23.40 | Corsac | Venemo: does it exist? |
| 11:23.54 | *** join/#maemo triscao (~user@ti0078a380-0521.bb.online.no) |
| 11:23.54 | vi__ | i donated $30 dollers to cordia project, then smoku says he hates nokia and will have nothing to do with any of their hardware. |
| 11:24.22 | Venemo | vi__, well, he still carries forward the project. |
| 11:24.28 | vi__ | i didnt realise at the time i was helping fund somone elses commercial enterprise |
| 11:24.28 | psycho_oreos | that's what happened with a fair few other devs |
| 11:24.29 | Venemo | Corsac, yes, the N950 does exist, I have one right in front of me. |
| 11:24.47 | Venemo | vi__, and cordiatab is NOT a commercial enterprise. |
| 11:24.54 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@port-92-206-247-242.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 11:24.56 | Venemo | please read the website before you judge. |
| 11:24.58 | Corsac | Venemo: I meant the cordiatab |
| 11:25.14 | triscao | where do i find code-reset app? to reset unlock code |
| 11:25.23 | Venemo | Corsac, ah, that. well, smoku is negotiating with the chinese guys about it. |
| 11:25.43 | psycho_oreos | there's no `app' for it, and there was a tmo thread on it |
| 11:26.15 | Stskeeps | odd question, is there any videos of cordia on n900? |
| 11:26.27 | Venemo | Stskeeps, nope, but some people did manage to run it |
| 11:26.33 | triscao | somebody talked about it later today that there was an app called codereset |
| 11:27.10 | Venemo | Stskeeps, last time I checked there were still some difficulties regarding the installation |
| 11:28.52 | psycho_oreos | I'd imagine if there was an `app' for it, it would probably serve as a god send to those with stolen N900 |
| 11:28.54 | Venemo | Stskeeps, most notably the marina theme fails to build for ARM, and despite it being noarch, OBS is too stupid to offer the x86-built version. |
| 11:29.07 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@178.103.214.222) |
| 11:29.50 | Hurrian | venemo, how can something with no source code to compile fail to build? |
| 11:29.54 | *** join/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:30.24 | Venemo | Hurrian, it calls some tool to dither the images (or whatever) |
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| 11:44.44 | *** join/#maemo cityLights (~cityLight@80.179.93.112) |
| 11:44.48 | cityLights | hi |
| 11:45.10 | cityLights | did anyone try to connect a usb wifi then run hostapd on the n900? |
| 11:57.16 | *** join/#maemo mag (~mag@trir-4d0d8d5e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:57.53 | cityLights | so quiet |
| 11:58.05 | cityLights | !seen MohhamadAG |
| 11:58.09 | cityLights | ~seen MohhamadAG |
| 11:58.10 | infobot | i haven't seen 'mohhamadag', cityLights |
| 11:58.23 | cityLights | ~seen MohamadAG |
| 11:58.24 | infobot | i haven't seen 'mohamadag', cityLights |
| 11:58.37 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@host-89-242-159-119.as13285.net) |
| 11:58.37 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 11:58.42 | cityLights | hi lardman |
| 11:58.58 | cityLights | havent been here in a while |
| 11:59.02 | cityLights | pls update me |
| 11:59.06 | lardman | hi cityLights |
| 11:59.11 | cityLights | did everyone get their n950? |
| 11:59.21 | lardman | afaik almost everyone yes |
| 11:59.24 | cityLights | are all busy coding using QT? |
| 11:59.29 | lardman | yep |
| 11:59.33 | lupine_85 | cityLights, it's lacking USB host powah |
| 11:59.35 | lardman | should be QML really |
| 11:59.36 | lupine_85 | so I'm not sure how that would work |
| 12:00.20 | lupine_85 | hmm, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/h-e-n |
| 12:00.27 | Guest25943 | hello, is it possible to get between de microphone and the gsm uplink? |
| 12:00.53 | cityLights | does the crawd here decided toturn around regarding the N9? |
| 12:01.08 | lardman | turn around? |
| 12:01.10 | triscao | do you people use smscon? |
| 12:01.14 | Guest25943 | i want to encrypt the gsm data befor it is send |
| 12:01.39 | lardman | Guest15721: what do you mean exactly? You may be able to intercept the voice data before it crosses to the modem |
| 12:01.50 | lardman | ah I see |
| 12:01.53 | cityLights | well, after the N9 and N950 where declared, most ppl here had bad things to say |
| 12:02.02 | cityLights | did this verdict changed? |
| 12:02.18 | lardman | cityLights: N950 is pretty good, other than the old software |
| 12:02.30 | cityLights | got one? |
| 12:02.35 | lardman | N9 lacks kb which isn't good, but has NFC which will add some cool possibilities |
| 12:02.41 | Guest25943 | all i found is dbus but nothing that would really help. only detect calls but not get the stream |
| 12:02.43 | lardman | yep I've got an N950 |
| 12:02.45 | Guest25943 | yes lardman |
| 12:02.59 | chem|st | lardman: does not help anyone as there wont be N9 on the bigger markets and n950 on any market... |
| 12:03.03 | lardman | Guest15721: perhaps look at kernel modules that hook into the audio pipeline |
| 12:03.15 | lardman | chem|st: yeah that is a problem |
| 12:03.29 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, voice scamblers suck over gsm doe to nature of gsm codec |
| 12:03.48 | lardman | Though with Google's purchase of the mobile bits of Motorola, perhaps we'll see more interest in Meego |
| 12:03.54 | chem|st | lardman: if I would do SE for a living I wouldn' even touch it |
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| 12:04.14 | lardman | chem|st: what's SE? |
| 12:04.15 | Guest25943 | do you have a tip which one i should look at? (sry for lame questions ;)) |
| 12:04.23 | chem|st | software engineering |
| 12:04.29 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, you should use either CSD if it is supported or voip |
| 12:04.51 | triscao | in what respitory do i find vlc and firefox? have added all i can find but cant search them up and download |
| 12:05.08 | lardman | Guest15721: re intercepting the voice data, not off hand, but try stracing the phone app and see what it does perhaps |
| 12:05.15 | Guest25943 | Arkenoi, i don't want to use voip |
| 12:05.21 | chem|st | triscao: in the vlc repo and the mozilla repo, they got their own up |
| 12:05.29 | Arkenoi | and as 3g coverage constantly increases voip is just ok for you |
| 12:05.30 | lardman | chem|st: I wasn't saying that the N9 was going to be a big thing, just that NFC looks cool |
| 12:05.35 | lupine_85 | presumably it's "just alsa" |
| 12:05.39 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, it will suck then. |
| 12:05.49 | Guest25943 | hehe |
| 12:06.10 | triscao | oki thnx chem|st |
| 12:06.31 | lupine_85 | wonder if it could use pulseaudio |
| 12:06.33 | Guest25943 | arkenoi, why? to slow? |
| 12:06.47 | lupine_85 | oh, hey, it already does |
| 12:06.53 | lupine_85 | so, just define a new sink ? |
| 12:06.53 | psycho_oreos | NFC in N9's case is pretty useless apart from the stated functionality of its use in the instance of sharing angry birds levels |
| 12:06.56 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, also with voip you may use variety of other soft phones supporting srtp/zrtp |
| 12:07.27 | chem|st | lupine_85: there is no "just" in PA for maemo |
| 12:07.34 | lupine_85 | pff |
| 12:07.42 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, bandwidth. voice codec does exactly that -- encodes voice. scrambled data are not technically voice so it will suck. |
| 12:07.43 | lupine_85 | not another mangled thing ? |
| 12:07.56 | psycho_oreos | and again both N950 as well as N9 is crippled in their own ways. No matter how you look at it, the result is always the same. Though ultimately either of N950 or N9 will be better than Sea Ray in the long haul |
| 12:08.01 | lardman | psycho_oreos: one could write one's own apps of course |
| 12:08.50 | chem|st | they crippled some things and the access is mangled down to a limited command set and getting PA to do multicasts seems impossible to me... |
| 12:08.54 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, people already tried to design scrambler based gsm crypto phone and all that sucked enough to switch to either csd link or voip |
| 12:09.12 | Arkenoi | see how commerciallly available models work |
| 12:09.18 | Arkenoi | old ones are all csd |
| 12:09.19 | psycho_oreos | lardman, yeah first though you have to work around somehow that stupid aegis |
| 12:09.28 | lupine_85 | hmm, there's a "pasr" command |
| 12:09.34 | Arkenoi | newer are more likely to be voip if not designed long time ago |
| 12:09.43 | lupine_85 | not sure if it'll do the trick, but --help looks interesting |
| 12:09.50 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/16/apple_samsung/ |
| 12:09.55 | Guest25943 | arkenoi, so it is not wise to do that |
| 12:10.15 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, why you are against voip so much? |
| 12:10.22 | lupine_85 | presumably it's perfectly possible to compile a non-retarded pulseaudio, anyway |
| 12:10.44 | lupine_85 | so long as you get the versions right, ABI compatilbility with nokia's extra modules should be maintained |
| 12:11.02 | Guest25943 | arkenoi, cause it is not everywhere |
| 12:11.06 | lupine_85 | still, I've not done it - or even looked at it |
| 12:11.17 | lupine_85 | things always look easier from that perspective ;) |
| 12:11.18 | Guest25943 | arkenoi, and the most of the calls is still going to be gsm |
| 12:12.00 | Guest25943 | also i thought it would be a good work for my bachelor ;) |
| 12:12.14 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, evern voip over EDGE will work better than scrambler. |
| 12:12.40 | lardman | psycho_oreos: aegis doesn't allow access to the NFC hw? |
| 12:13.05 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, well, if you solve this problem, write me arkenoi@gmail.com and you may expect some material reward |
| 12:13.53 | Guest25943 | arkenoi, if i do it is going to be open source |
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| 12:14.04 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, sure, that is what we need |
| 12:14.25 | psycho_oreos | lardman, not that I know to what extent will aegis function but afaik aegis itself is noted to be a burden for harmattan owners |
| 12:14.35 | psycho_oreos | er harmattan based device owners |
| 12:14.49 | lardman | psycho_oreos: sure I've heard the stories, though it's not stopped me doing anything yet |
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| 12:15.04 | Arkenoi | you get it once we see a working prototype either for n900 or n9 |
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| 12:16.21 | psycho_oreos | lardman, lucky for you whom happen to just own one of those. I can't test it out myself so I'll just have to go with whatever info I can get :p |
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| 12:17.31 | lardman | psycho_oreos: fair enough |
| 12:20.38 | Arkenoi | Guest15721, you may also share some design sketches regarding crypto part with me, it might be possible that i can help. |
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| 12:54.00 | peterbjornxz | what libraries does bme need |
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| 12:56.32 | thomastp | is sbdmock still being used to build fremantle packages? |
| 12:56.38 | thomastp | if so, anyone have a .cfg for it ? |
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| 13:07.58 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornxz: use ldd to list the libs? |
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| 13:11.02 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornxz: http://paste.debian.net/126388/ |
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| 13:15.09 | DocScrutinizer | Guest25943: Arkenoi: doing crypto via GSM codec? does not work! really! thousands been there and failed. You can't transmit data via GSM codec at a rate sufficient for another realtime encoded voice channel |
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| 13:16.59 | SpeedEvil | ^can, but it's really hard |
| 13:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | the only encryption that could work over GSM voice channel is a human speech realtime translator, they did this in WW-II with cherokee? |
| 13:17.45 | SpeedEvil | There has been research into putting 1300bits/sec over a GSM channel, but that was using hax like putting what is basically a data-driven voicebox on the sending end, and speech recognition on the far |
| 13:18.06 | SpeedEvil | It's - barely - fas enough for very low rate codecs |
| 13:18.58 | DocScrutinizer | 1300bps? no way you get even the best codecs to transmit legible realtime voice at that datarate |
| 13:20.44 | DocScrutinizer | even worse: you can't even replace the GSM codec by a version doing encryption, as the carriers' PBXs do all sorts of nasty things to the "data"stream like AEC and other *voice* quality enhancements - figure what they do to your encrypted data |
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| 13:21.35 | fizzie | I seem to recall some used-in-military lp-and-tricks thing doing intelligible voice at 1200bps. Horribly low rankings in quality, of course, but still intelligible. |
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| 13:22.41 | DocScrutinizer | with military grade speaker's dicipline, yes |
| 13:22.59 | DocScrutinizer | using nato alphabet for each second word |
| 13:24.08 | DocScrutinizer | beyond that: November Oscar Space Whiskey Alpha Yankee |
| 13:24.31 | jaska | whiskey tango foxtrot |
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| 13:26.59 | Arkenoi | fizzie, DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil that's exactly what we were discussing in private just now |
| 13:27.06 | DocScrutinizer | Guest25943: please google a bit more to find like 20 such projects per year just for the few linux cellphones around. All of them eventually stalling when they wrap their head around fundamental restrictions imanent in GSM |
| 13:27.35 | SpeedEvil | I can't find the original paper, it was more than a paper excersize though. |
| 13:27.46 | psycho_oreos | echo xavier alpha charlie tango lima yankee |
| 13:27.59 | Arkenoi | i suggested using low bandwith codec just as undesirable fallback if GPRS/EDGE connection is even worse |
| 13:28.07 | Arkenoi | most people do use CSD for that |
| 13:28.24 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 13:28.26 | SpeedEvil | Doing it without paying detailed attention to what the GSM codecs (the various sorts used) do to the signal is fail though. |
| 13:28.46 | DocScrutinizer | that's the correct way: point-2-point CSD data connection |
| 13:28.47 | SpeedEvil | CSD is usually unavailable in many places. |
| 13:29.05 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, what makes me wonder is why there still is no zRTP plugin for maemo/meego. I offered to sponsor the project, about 4-5 people tried and all gave up |
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| 13:29.24 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: dunno |
| 13:29.33 | woodong50_______ | hi |
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| 13:29.48 | woodong50_______ | i am using n900 |
| 13:30.01 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: zRTP is not exactly a simple implementation |
| 13:30.02 | Arkenoi | SpeedEvil, CSD is widely used by previous generation m2m like ATM and fleet control, so it is generally available |
| 13:30.19 | Shapeshifter | woodong50_______: is that long line your wood dong? |
| 13:30.46 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 13:31.26 | SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: Not on many 'normal' peoples contracts. |
| 13:31.41 | SpeedEvil | Or at least it's turned off, and will require expensive activation, or per-minute fees. |
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| 13:32.27 | woodong50_______ | now i will remove long line |
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| 13:33.38 | Arkenoi | SpeedEvil, outgoing CSD is usually charged just like voice calls. incoming requires extra phone number and a special contract |
| 13:34.22 | SpeedEvil | I looked a while ago, and it wasn't available on either of my contracts. (outgoing) |
| 13:34.31 | SpeedEvil | I couldn't easily find a way to enable. |
| 13:34.40 | SpeedEvil | This may have changed of course. |
| 13:35.38 | fizzie | Speex at 2.15 kbps (the lowest official rate) is actually pretty nice-sounding. So you "just" need to push that much data through. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that turned out to be not completely impossible with something that guesstimates which sort of combination of codecs and other manglings there are on the path, and adapts accordingly. |
| 13:35.45 | DocScrutinizer | outgoing usually is linked to the inbound data-only dedicated second phone-number |
| 13:36.10 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. often you need to contract inbound CSD to use outbound CSD |
| 13:37.02 | DocScrutinizer | fizzie: that's what SpeedEvil was talking about for that weird vocoder box whitepaper |
| 13:38.15 | SpeedEvil | fizzie: you end up with something that pushes 'voice-like' sounds into the codec at or somewhat below the codec frame rate. |
| 13:38.20 | DocScrutinizer | fizzie: iirc it did a calibration step (probably several 10s of seconds), like every 'usual' modem, to "equalize" the media channel. Then used vocal alike symbols to transmit data |
| 13:38.43 | SpeedEvil | fizzie: For example - frames are (for example IIRC) 40Hz. |
| 13:39.35 | DocScrutinizer | so you need 2100 / 40 bits/symbol encoding |
| 13:39.37 | SpeedEvil | So if you can have 10 bits for frequency, 4 bits for loudness, 6 bits for 'sound'... |
| 13:40.12 | fizzie | Speech-like output sounds like the obvious way to go, yes. |
| 13:40.13 | DocScrutinizer | see? this doesn't match |
| 13:41.26 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: where from are those numbers? :-D amazingly reasonable, I couldn't have come up with a guess that good in no time |
| 13:41.43 | SpeedEvil | Random guess |
| 13:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | awesome |
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| 13:42.15 | DocScrutinizer | see? that's why you are highlighted on my irc client :-D |
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| 13:42.39 | fizzie | Or looking more directly at CELP instead of just handwaving "speech-like". I had right here on this table somewhere a nice table of how the AMR-NB bandwidth gets divided between the various parameters it sends per frame, but can't locate it right now. |
| 13:44.20 | DocScrutinizer | fizzie: basic information theory consideration make it clear you can't get 2k datarate over TWO codecs thru a data channel designed for 9.6K |
| 13:44.36 | SpeedEvil | It's not quite that simple - as you have adc -> code +radio errors -> decode -> ISDN -> code +radio errors -> decode -> dac |
| 13:44.49 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 13:45.23 | DocScrutinizer | each of those steps basically at least halving your data thruput bandwith |
| 13:46.58 | DocScrutinizer | to make things worse, parts of your GSM channel might operate at HDR (half datarate) == 4800 |
| 13:46.59 | fizzie | I don't think "basic information theory" says anything except that you can't get more bits through it than there's actual bandwidth available there. But certainly it's not easy, especially if there's some sort of a transcoding step involved in the path. |
| 13:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | dang, span CTCP bots? htuttle anybody else? |
| 13:47.55 | *** part/#maemo mardi (~mardi@212.183.140.0) |
| 13:47.58 | DocScrutinizer | spam* |
| 13:48.51 | DocScrutinizer | Is there any noticable join/part activity? My notifications are hidden |
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| 13:49.36 | DocScrutinizer | fizzie: it also says sth about redundancy and error correction |
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| 13:51.10 | DocScrutinizer | standard GSM codec/channel works with 50% redundancy/EC on top, that's why your raw datarate is 14400 for a 9600 GSM encoder |
| 13:51.12 | psycho_oreos | some people have joined and parted but I am not sure from which time intervals you were referring to. I have set my client to ignore all CTCP requests except with a few exceptions |
| 13:52.02 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-08-16 15:46:35] [CTCP] Versionsanfrage von htuttle empfangen. |
| 13:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-08-16 15:46:38] [CTCP] Versionsanfrage von htuttle empfangen. |
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| 13:52.28 | psycho_oreos | goes and gets a timezone converter |
| 13:52.37 | DocScrutinizer | well, could've been random other chan. Sorry for the noise |
| 13:52.52 | DocScrutinizer | 15:52:37 |
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| 13:53.35 | psycho_oreos | hmm 6 minutes ago, so I see a timeout and someone left this chan, that's about it |
| 13:53.43 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:54.26 | psycho_oreos | yup definitely that person isn't in here :) my whois shows up he's not in any chan.. (in other words, there's no chan that is common with both myself and him that are in) |
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| 13:55.26 | psycho_oreos | * thomastp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) && * mardi (~mardi@212.183.140.0) has left #maemo happened in maybe 2 minutes gap ~ 6 minutes ago |
| 13:56.02 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos, mardi has always had a bloody dodgy connection |
| 13:56.25 | fizzie | A rule-of-thumb like "each step halves the bandwidth" sounds more practical than information-theoretical. Anyway, I'm not claiming it's possible or anything, just that I would not be surprised if it turned out to be not completely impossible, at least if it happens that the speech channel uses some higher-data-rate AMR-WB-at-24-kbps thing in The Future. |
| 13:56.41 | fizzie | SpeedEvil: Was your "1200 bps" thing this, by any chance? http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1860010 |
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| 13:56.52 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, lol though he's noted to have left the channel :D the nokia staff is having more dropouts as of recent |
| 13:57.07 | fizzie | "Through real-world experiments, we show that Hermes achieves approximately 1.2 kbps goodput which when compared to SMS, --" |
| 13:57.13 | fizzie | (I like the word "goodput".) |
| 13:57.30 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos, usually he arrives in #securabit a minute before he arrives in #maemo, or vice-versa. |
| 13:58.01 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, sounds like there's definitely a lag there :) |
| 13:58.13 | psycho_oreos | lag on his connection of course |
| 13:58.36 | fizzie | (Whoops, I need to have been elsewhere ten minutes ago already.) |
| 13:58.38 | DocScrutinizer | fizzie: it's based on +-1LSB convesion errors, so it's both pratical rule of thumb as well as some backup by theory |
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| 14:02.39 | DocScrutinizer | the real world approach is what that whitepaper seems to suggest: calibrate your channel, to determine the number of distinguishable symbols per step you can use |
| 14:03.29 | DocScrutinizer | it's been like this since the time of 2400+ PSTN modems |
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| 14:05.16 | DocScrutinizer | you can optimize the kind of symbols you use, so they make maximum usage of the given channel: here it's vowels and consonants as that's what your channel is built for |
| 14:06.11 | DocScrutinizer | you wouldn't even use "s" and "f" as distinct symbols if you spell a word over GSM in plain human conversation |
| 14:06.42 | DocScrutinizer | GSM is virtually unable to distinguish them |
| 14:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | other vowels take longer to build than the 1/40 secondof the framerate, so are not real entity symbols |
| 14:08.41 | DocScrutinizer | like probably "r" |
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| 14:09.27 | DocScrutinizer | so number of symbols isn't that large: a e i o u s|f |
| 14:09.51 | DocScrutinizer | plus frequency for all but s|f |
| 14:10.43 | DocScrutinizer | maybe ae j and some more also work, on a good quality chan |
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| 14:13.30 | DocScrutinizer | multiply this by the number of available distinct frequencies for the vowels - keep in mind freq is of rather low importance for human speech so may get mangled heavily in your channel intermediate processors |
| 14:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | you might find you only get like 5 really distinct freq |
| 14:15.34 | DocScrutinizer | then there's also heavily optimized compression, based on the fact human speech can't do arbitrary transitions between symbols |
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| 14:18.43 | rly | When it says N950/N9, do they mean N900? |
| 14:18.56 | Venemo_N950 | rly, no |
| 14:19.06 | Venemo_N950 | they mean N9 and N950 |
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| 14:20.10 | rly | Is there any way I can flash it on a 64 bits OS then? |
| 14:20.19 | rly | (Linux) |
| 14:20.51 | rly | It seems a bit ancient that one doesn't support 64 bits systems. |
| 14:21.42 | *** join/#maemo idont (~iDont@j138215.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 14:22.28 | DocScrutinizer | rly: please elaborate |
| 14:22.32 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr_ (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
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| 14:22.42 | DocScrutinizer | we only can guess what's your problem/topic |
| 14:23.18 | rly | DocScrutinizer: I want to flash my n900 to get the most recent image, but now I find that there is no flasher for Ubuntu 11.04 64 bits. |
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| 14:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | ~flashing |
| 14:25.31 | infobot | from memory, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 14:25.46 | DocScrutinizer | should yield all the answers |
| 14:26.20 | rly | DocScrutinizer: ah, right. |
| 14:26.30 | DocScrutinizer | for the 64 Q: you can run 32 sw on 64, using the compat libs |
| 14:26.58 | rly | DocScrutinizer: and what about 11.04 being newer than Lucid? |
| 14:27.01 | DocScrutinizer | it's a real FAQ |
| 14:27.09 | luke-jr_ | in other words, installing a 32-bit OS on top of the 64-bit one |
| 14:27.16 | crashanddie | luke-jr_, hardly |
| 14:27.23 | luke-jr_ | is glad to have a 64-bit flasher |
| 14:27.34 | crashanddie | rly, doesn't really matter |
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| 14:27.51 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: for luke-jr_ Qt is a language, so probably a few libs are an OS |
| 14:27.53 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 14:27.58 | crashanddie | rly, there's little difference between 10.whatever and 11.whatever. I'd be surprised if the G++ ABI has changed in the meantime. |
| 14:28.12 | rly | For stuff like this a simple statically linked binary with some run-time check on environment seems a lot simpler. |
| 14:28.15 | luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: it's not a few, it's every one you want to use |
| 14:28.28 | crashanddie | rly, oh bollocks, get back in your 1960 cave. |
| 14:28.43 | crashanddie | luke-jr_, which in case of the flasher, is not that many. |
| 14:28.51 | luke-jr_ | actually, I switched to pure 32-bit with my last reinstall |
| 14:29.06 | luke-jr_ | CPUs are fast enough that losing the registers is tolerable |
| 14:29.11 | luke-jr_ | but can never have enough memory |
| 14:29.27 | crashanddie | even with EMT? |
| 14:29.41 | luke-jr_ | EMT? |
| 14:29.48 | crashanddie | extended memory table |
| 14:29.57 | luke-jr_ | ? |
| 14:30.05 | luke-jr_ | my kernel is 64-bit |
| 14:30.10 | crashanddie | ah, k |
| 14:30.24 | crashanddie | so individual process can only address 4gb of ram? |
| 14:30.29 | luke-jr_ | yeah, that's plenty |
| 14:30.38 | crashanddie | depends for what ;) |
| 14:30.39 | DocScrutinizer | OMG no way |
| 14:30.42 | luke-jr_ | I only have 8 GB total right now |
| 14:30.47 | DocScrutinizer | only 4GB per process |
| 14:30.59 | DocScrutinizer | unbearable ;-P |
| 14:31.16 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, I've got a single process handling over 22GB of data. |
| 14:31.21 | crashanddie | in RAM. |
| 14:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | dang |
| 14:31.34 | DocScrutinizer | pretty poor design |
| 14:31.40 | crashanddie | hardly. |
| 14:31.42 | DocScrutinizer | or hightech on the fringe |
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| 14:31.57 | crashanddie | well, it's big-scale telephony |
| 14:32.02 | DocScrutinizer | calculating rainbow tables? ;-P |
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| 14:32.23 | crashanddie | it's all the stats/call data of the last 24 hours |
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| 14:32.34 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* |
| 14:32.48 | DocScrutinizer | WTF has this to stay resident |
| 14:32.49 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 14:33.01 | crashanddie | Lots of reasons |
| 14:33.06 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 14:33.09 | DocScrutinizer | dbms |
| 14:33.13 | crashanddie | Nope |
| 14:33.15 | crashanddie | Can't handle it. |
| 14:33.20 | DocScrutinizer | *sigh* |
| 14:33.36 | rly | You can only say something about it if you know the complete problem. |
| 14:33.50 | rly | (which likely is secret) |
| 14:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | sure, just kidding on crashy a bit ;-D |
| 14:34.16 | crashanddie | I know, I know |
| 14:35.08 | javispedro | actually 32 bit processes can access more than 4GiB of RAM ;) |
| 14:35.11 | javispedro | it's called a window ;) |
| 14:35.13 | javispedro | hides |
| 14:35.26 | DocScrutinizer | there are definitely usecases for 64, but desktop rarely is one of them |
| 14:36.03 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (~vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 14:36.04 | cehteh | hey firefox is a desktop application :P |
| 14:36.15 | DocScrutinizer | I'm going for 32 for all my desktop boxes every day |
| 14:36.56 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I heard next FF version can only run on servers with at least 16 cores and 32GB RAM, via remote X |
| 14:37.07 | javispedro | used to go 32 but since I have 4GiB of RAM there's plenty to waste and I find the extra registers useful (exactly the opposite reasoning to luke-jr's) |
| 14:37.38 | luke-jr_ | would be nice if 32-bit mode could use the registers too :P |
| 14:38.12 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: it can |
| 14:38.22 | luke-jr_ | jacekowski: oh? |
| 14:38.48 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: are you talking about new x64 registers? |
| 14:38.50 | luke-jr_ | jacekowski: so there's no loss to 32-bit mode after all? do I need to do something magic to GCC? |
| 14:38.58 | luke-jr_ | x86_64*, yes |
| 14:39.17 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: as far as i know, no compiler has support for it yet |
| 14:39.31 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: and only nasm can correctly code modrm for new registers |
| 14:39.36 | luke-jr_ | aww |
| 14:39.43 | javispedro | ooh, I remember something |
| 14:39.52 | javispedro | x86_32? |
| 14:39.55 | luke-jr_ | jacekowski: is it supported by all 64-bit procs, or just newer ones? |
| 14:40.05 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: all supporting amd64 |
| 14:40.11 | luke-jr_ | nice |
| 14:40.13 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: not old p4 that had the ia64 thing |
| 14:40.20 | jacekowski | or whatever it was called |
| 14:40.22 | luke-jr_ | O.o |
| 14:40.37 | luke-jr_ | IA32e *is* amd64 O.o |
| 14:40.57 | jacekowski | EM64T i meant |
| 14:41.10 | jacekowski | hmm |
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| 14:41.11 | jacekowski | no |
| 14:41.13 | jacekowski | different thing |
| 14:41.33 | jacekowski | there was something intel introduced initially that was different |
| 14:42.02 | jacekowski | but it was only in very early days of 64bit |
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| 14:42.49 | javispedro | http://wiki.osdev.org/X86_Instruction_Encoding#REX_prefix |
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| 14:43.33 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 14:43.48 | jacekowski | only nasm can code it correctly |
| 14:43.51 | javispedro | I _remember_ someone did start a gcc port |
| 14:43.57 | javispedro | in fact the name x86_32 rings a bell |
| 14:44.01 | javispedro | but can't google it |
| 14:44.11 | jacekowski | well, maybe something has changed |
| 14:44.14 | jacekowski | but i doubt it |
| 14:44.34 | jacekowski | when you have 64bit processor you may just as well run full 64bit code |
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| 14:44.58 | javispedro | the issue is memory wasting and increased cache pressure due to the increased pointer size |
| 14:44.59 | jacekowski | and i wouldn't be surprised if these registers are not saved during context switches by any 32bit os |
| 14:45.35 | javispedro | I remember the first days with everyone saying "OMG amd64 is up to 30% faster with the new regs!!" |
| 14:45.37 | jacekowski | i measn pusha instruction |
| 14:45.40 | jacekowski | because that would break compatibility |
| 14:45.51 | javispedro | jacekowski: either way amd64 kernel is fine |
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| 14:47.07 | javispedro | has even gotten v86 to work by first dropping from long mode then going into v64. |
| 14:47.12 | javispedro | *v86. |
| 14:47.33 | javispedro | contradicting the microsoft idiots that say that lack of wow16 on amd64 is because it is not supported by the processor. |
| 14:47.50 | javispedro | and not because they couldn't be arsed to support it any longer and found the perfect excuse: blaming AMD . |
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| 14:48.55 | jacekowski | i don't see a problem here |
| 14:49.03 | jacekowski | at some point you just have to break compatibility |
| 14:49.13 | jacekowski | and ideally if you can blame somebody else |
| 14:49.25 | javispedro | exactly |
| 14:49.35 | javispedro | they could blame someone else so they did. |
| 14:49.51 | javispedro | now everytime they try to sell me that marketing bluff of the lengths they go for backwards compatibility I laugh |
| 14:50.16 | jacekowski | well, they did for quite a long time |
| 14:50.26 | jacekowski | they could have decided to leave 32bit whatsoever |
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| 14:51.15 | SpeedEvil | Oooh! Free invite to microsofts app store thingy. |
| 14:51.23 | SpeedEvil | I shall! ... totally ignore it. |
| 14:51.29 | jacekowski | give it to me |
| 14:51.39 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, i got one of those this morning |
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| 14:51.52 | javispedro | MS will eventually make it free for all |
| 14:51.57 | jacekowski | i think i'll buy that WP7 version of N9 |
| 14:52.03 | SpeedEvil | f you have not heard the good news yet, we are happy to tell you that we are now offering a free Microsoft App Hub registration for the first one year to those Nokia Developer PRO and Launchpad members who are registered Ovi publishers in the countries that Microsoft supports on the App Hub . |
| 14:52.20 | Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: i almost threw up when i read that |
| 14:52.24 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 14:54.15 | Venemo_N950 | SpeedEvil, yeah I got one too and I may also use the opportunity |
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| 14:54.36 | Venemo_N950 | why not seize some money from those dumb wp7 lovers? |
| 14:55.14 | psycho_oreos | the question is, how much? |
| 14:55.19 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - I'm a bit conflicted about the whole WP7 thing. |
| 14:55.19 | MohammadAG | Countries supported: US, United States, and the United States of America |
| 14:55.30 | Appiah | haha |
| 14:55.40 | SpeedEvil | The marketplace really does need a third player. |
| 14:56.02 | SpeedEvil | I'd of course like that to be maemo/meego/slackware - but... |
| 14:56.11 | javispedro | Stskeeps: wait until they offer you the free WP7 phone. |
| 14:56.13 | crashanddie | So... Google buys Motorola, and Microsoft buys Nokia... I guess that leaves Apple to buy Samsung. |
| 14:56.24 | javispedro | Stskeeps: Searay MeegoCE? ;) |
| 14:56.38 | Stskeeps | javispedro: actually, i could be interested from the POV of err.. consumer research |
| 14:57.01 | Stskeeps | it's good to know the competition |
| 14:57.04 | psycho_oreos | heh Apple to buy the manufacturing company that they once sued for copyright infringements |
| 14:57.04 | SpeedEvil | In fact - one of my 'almost ideal' marketplaces would be one where you were free to rip the software off the phone and stick meego on. |
| 14:57.10 | psycho_oreos | err patent infringments* |
| 14:57.10 | SpeedEvil | Even if not shipped by vendors. |
| 14:57.15 | javispedro | Stskeeps: :) |
| 14:57.29 | Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: mine would be a decentralized approach |
| 14:57.31 | javispedro | the hardware might be better than the N9's for all I know |
| 14:57.41 | Stskeeps | marketplaces may exist, but apps can be picked up in the wild |
| 14:57.45 | SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: The samsung galaxy tab is being blocked from import into the EU at the moment due to apple complaints. |
| 14:58.02 | nid0 | the block's just been lifted |
| 14:58.06 | nid0 | except in germany |
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| 14:58.22 | javispedro | crashanddie: Apple buys http://www.nokianfootwear.fi/ |
| 14:58.23 | SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: I'm unsure. I see the point in app-stores that actually do security and safety checking. |
| 14:58.27 | psycho_oreos | with a locked bootloader I don't think there's much fun in booting meego on a wp7 only device.. Even if you hacked it to boot meego, you're still going to love that `hot' windows logo button |
| 14:58.32 | SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: for the 'mass market' at least. |
| 14:59.09 | SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: The baggage that comes along almost inherently - not so much. |
| 14:59.27 | psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, lol they're trying to stop that here in .au as well whilst filing ITC for patent infringement.. It'll be quite a funny irony that Apple does buy Samsung but I really don't see that as a likely possibility |
| 14:59.45 | psycho_oreos | s/for/on/ |
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| 15:00.24 | crashanddie | Thing is |
| 15:00.33 | crashanddie | At the moment, there's nothing that makes me go "oooooh" |
| 15:00.36 | crashanddie | Not the new tablets |
| 15:00.50 | crashanddie | Not the new ipads, ipods, macbooks, htpcs, whatever. |
| 15:00.56 | crashanddie | Not the new arduinos |
| 15:00.59 | SpeedEvil | The ipad is shiny hardware. |
| 15:01.06 | crashanddie | There's nothing "fun". |
| 15:01.09 | SpeedEvil | It's a bit expensive though. |
| 15:01.20 | crashanddie | Well, I have one at work |
| 15:01.24 | crashanddie | And... it's boring. |
| 15:01.24 | MohammadAG | the sun's shiny and free |
| 15:01.26 | hiemanshu | crashanddie: maybe buy some shoes? :P |
| 15:01.32 | javispedro | dislikes tablets |
| 15:01.35 | psycho_oreos | and it features proprietary USB connector, walled garden for software approach, does not have proper USB connector |
| 15:01.37 | SpeedEvil | There are lots of cool chips out there. But they all have bery limited help. |
| 15:01.42 | crashanddie | hiemanshu, I've got enough shoes, no worries there mate. |
| 15:01.56 | crashanddie | hiemanshu, I wear 3 to 4 pairs of shoes per day on average ;) |
| 15:02.03 | hiemanshu | crashanddie: hah ok |
| 15:02.04 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, lies, you've never been there |
| 15:02.07 | SpeedEvil | For example - a microcontroller with bluetooth for $3, with lots and lots of pins. But the dev environment is $3k |
| 15:02.14 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, eh? |
| 15:02.50 | MohammadAG | the sun isn't boring |
| 15:02.51 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: TI does that |
| 15:03.03 | jacekowski | companies that are developer/engineer hostile should just disappear |
| 15:03.07 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, I probably spend more time per day in the sun than you ;) |
| 15:03.48 | psycho_oreos | doesn't see any interesting value for money with tablets: cannot upgrade internal hardware, cannot run full fledged OS of user's choice, cannot do virtualisation like a normal PC and worst off, in the case with Apple's iPad, one always needs to buy devices compatible with it both in hardware and software terms |
| 15:04.07 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, true, I'm a night-kind of person |
| 15:04.14 | crashanddie | well, that's the case with pretty much every single tablet, psycho_oreos. |
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| 15:04.25 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, try spending the day on the sun, it's a bit fun |
| 15:04.39 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: upgrade internal hardware I agree, rest are just lies |
| 15:04.46 | hiemanshu | there are lots of tabs that can do that |
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| 15:05.05 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, heavily enforced in Apple's case but you're right. This is why I just don't see much fun with tablets apart from slim factor and literally noisefree |
| 15:05.09 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, You do realise that my office has a 180 degrees panorama and I get blasted by the sun from 8 till 11 and 15 till 10, right? |
| 15:05.12 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: To some degree, they're not the worst by far though. (above is cambridge silicon radios) NXP is silly that way too. |
| 15:05.27 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Though they keep offering me free samples of 100W 2.8GHz FETs. |
| 15:05.37 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, what.. run vmware/virtualbox? :) What about iPad's proprietary connector? |
| 15:06.07 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: I am not taking about iPad, I am talking about tabs in general |
| 15:06.22 | psycho_oreos | I've heard lots of evil things from NXP but I couldn't recall what they were.. it was something about how they dipped themselves in the ATM machine realm |
| 15:07.00 | niv_ | MohammadAG: hi there |
| 15:07.29 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, that still leaves half the points unresolved, I have yet to see a tablet device able to run a more full fledged virtualisation such as vmware/virtualbox. Wine/dosbox for instance doesn't count |
| 15:07.35 | niv_ | say, did anyone use h-e-n to connect a usb wifi and run hostapd? |
| 15:07.57 | ErwinJunge | niv_: Why? |
| 15:08.04 | MohammadAG | hi |
| 15:08.12 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: I recall one from acer, that has a Core2Duo with VT-d |
| 15:08.13 | psycho_oreos | drain batteries quicker ;) |
| 15:08.13 | niv_ | my google tv doesnt "see" the mobilehotspot ad-hoc wifi connection |
| 15:08.21 | ErwinJunge | afaik it's already possible to use your n900 as an ap |
| 15:08.22 | ErwinJunge | ah |
| 15:08.33 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: VT-x |
| 15:08.43 | niv_ | so I need a device in wifi master mode, one way is to connect a zd devce |
| 15:08.48 | niv_ | its usb |
| 15:09.10 | psycho_oreos | ErwinJunge, that AP mode isn't true AP mode, its ad-hoc and can only do WEP protection (can someone yell weak please? :)) |
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| 15:09.12 | niv_ | ErwinJunge: not in master mode |
| 15:09.34 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, that tablet which can connect to `base' to act like a normal netbook? |
| 15:09.48 | ErwinJunge | Considering that it's such a specific usecase, I doubt you'll find anyone who's tried. Just go for it and report your findings :) |
| 15:09.55 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: nope, there was another acer one, this KDE guy from Canada had it |
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| 15:10.44 | ErwinJunge | I know it's only adhoc and wep, but for my limited use it's always been good enough. 3G often isn't encrypted either, so you really shouldn't use your phone's connection for anything critical... |
| 15:11.03 | lupine_85 | ... |
| 15:11.13 | psycho_oreos | h-e-n for instance stops BME, which won't give any one any useful indication how much battery is being chewed whilst its active. USB devices are notoriously heavy on host CPU. |
| 15:11.19 | nid0 | theres the asus eee slate as well, that has a core i5 chip, can handle virtualisation just fine |
| 15:11.27 | lupine_85 | puts most of his mobile data through an openvpn tunnel |
| 15:11.40 | lupine_85 | works for foreign government-owned telcos and local APs as well |
| 15:12.27 | ErwinJunge | lupine_85: That would work and in that case the last little hop over wep is a problem, true. |
| 15:12.30 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, hm running c2d eh? that's news for me for a tablet device. It must probably only offers less than a day of regular usage whilst on battery? *snickers* |
| 15:12.53 | lupine_85 | given how trivial it is to set up a simple shared-secret OpenVPN tunnel, I don't know why everyone doesn't |
| 15:12.53 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: lasts a decent 6-ish hours, which is not that bad |
| 15:13.01 | lupine_85 | obviously, mobile IP is better |
| 15:13.10 | lupine_85 | but that involves *herk* IPSec |
| 15:13.57 | psycho_oreos | not that its not to be used for anything critical but the point of being fleeced is another thing that could get you into strife as well |
| 15:14.30 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, *nods* so maybe less usage than N900 when compared to equivalent usage terms? ;) |
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| 15:15.20 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: well yeah, but you can have a full fledged OS on it, and such, its pretty decent if you are a designer |
| 15:17.30 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, and this is one of those aspire/travelmate series? |
| 15:18.00 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: not sure, never seen it before |
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| 15:20.15 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, from my google searches just a moment ago, it seems like they're nothing more than a regular netbook/notebook with twistable screen. Sure no grudges against that but surely that just blurs the line of what defines a tablet from Apple's point of view versus the PC realm's point of view. *shrugs* in either case I suppose its always been like that. I was under the assumption it would be more Apple's sort of ideology for tablet |
| 15:21.03 | psycho_oreos | though nid0's remark on Asus Eee slate looks more like an Apple inspired sort of tablet based computers (no physical hardware, no twistable screens, etc) |
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| 15:21.07 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: well, there is once, I am pretty sure, not that I try to recall, I dont think it was Acer damn, well I'll try to get you the exact details if you want me to ask |
| 15:21.19 | hiemanshu | one* |
| 15:21.40 | hiemanshu | ugh, that came out wrong :/ |
| 15:22.04 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: well I am pretty sure this one, I just cant recall the exact brands and such of it, I can ask if you want me to |
| 15:22.14 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@n1gxsu6vsp.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 15:22.36 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, nah its all good, I was rather skeptical of such a slim form factor device could actually be capable of having a somewhat regular CPU being shoehorned into it. |
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| 15:23.36 | psycho_oreos | in the end I would still prefer carrying a large (almost desktop replacement) laptop instead. That with a twistable screen into tablet would be nice but that's just my personal point of view |
| 15:26.42 | psycho_oreos | afaik in SE Asian markets, Acer is seen as a cheaper device mob than compared to Asus, in a way that its kinda like Toyota is the cheaper, maybe features less luxury items as Lexus for instance. |
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| 15:39.22 | Nido | I find the acer's usually are on par in reards of luxeries with the asus stuff. The difference in my opinion is, keeping the car analogy, that the asus just breaks down after 20000 miles |
| 15:40.30 | jacekowski | what? |
| 15:40.56 | jacekowski | somebody i know who worked for minimal wage at laptop repair place |
| 15:41.02 | jacekowski | asus was the most reliable brand |
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| 15:41.43 | jacekowski | and mysef i have asus laptop |
| 15:41.46 | jacekowski | used and abused |
| 15:41.57 | jacekowski | i mean, i was using it to warm my bed |
| 15:42.13 | jacekowski | so it ran very often at 100C for hours |
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| 15:43.27 | jacekowski | and it's already 1.5 year out of warranty and it's still working |
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| 15:47.43 | Nido | yes, I fucked up. The ACER is the brand that reliably fatally fails 3 months after the warrenty. I've had 1 year warrenty ASUS laptops that ran perfectly acceptable for 5 years |
| 15:48.21 | Nido | and I ran gentoo on it; it was on at least 8 hours a day; and most of the time it was compiling something |
| 15:48.22 | Shapeshifter | So how do I encode a video on the device using mencoder? they say on the wiki mencoder 6PTK1nLcuAA.flv -oac mp3lame -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:mbd=1:vbitrate=300 -vf scale=352:208 -ffourcc DIVX -o outfile.avi is supposed to work but that gives me "MPlayer was compiled without libmp3lame support." |
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| 15:49.10 | GAN900 | Laptops with TN screens are a waste of electricity. |
| 15:49.39 | MohammadAG | recompile it with libmp3lame support |
| 15:49.48 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: -oac help . -oac lavc -lavccodec=mp3 or something may work |
| 15:49.53 | SpeedEvil | But that |
| 15:50.02 | Shapeshifter | MohammadAG: oh smart |
| 15:50.34 | ErwinJunge | Shapeshifter: why would you want to do that? seems like it would be awfully slow |
| 15:50.35 | DocScrutinizer | hey, all the cracks are online, eh? |
| 15:51.04 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: thanks |
| 15:51.12 | DocScrutinizer | so again my request: please post facts and thoughts about "indicator LED failing in sunlight" issue |
| 15:51.35 | jacekowski | indicator LED is almost invisible in sunlight |
| 15:51.44 | DocScrutinizer | nah, it FAILS |
| 15:51.53 | jacekowski | impossibe |
| 15:51.58 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 15:52.02 | jacekowski | hmm, very very unlikely |
| 15:52.12 | jacekowski | i mean LED could behave like a fotocell |
| 15:52.20 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless I've witnesses it 5 days long at CCCamp |
| 15:52.23 | SpeedEvil | More likely it's turning off to save power. |
| 15:52.24 | jacekowski | so with very sensitive driver it could generate enough electricity to damage it |
| 15:52.28 | SpeedEvil | As it can't be seen. |
| 15:52.34 | SpeedEvil | (by some persons jugement) |
| 15:52.57 | ErwinJunge | SpeedEvil: Save power by turning off one led? |
| 15:53.08 | DocScrutinizer | it gets friggin dim, green is almost invisible *in the dark*, red is completely off, as is blue it seems |
| 15:53.17 | ErwinJunge | A bit pointless, don't you think? |
| 15:53.24 | SpeedEvil | Oh - n900 |
| 15:53.33 | SpeedEvil | I've never seen it do that |
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| 15:53.52 | DocScrutinizer | I suspect / blame temperature compensation inside LP5523 |
| 15:54.04 | DocScrutinizer | or inside mce |
| 15:54.35 | psycho_oreos | so even if turned your N900 upside down in the sunlight it won't help? |
| 15:54.40 | DocScrutinizer | though IIRC it didn't even work for power-up yellow indication |
| 15:54.58 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: it was even broken after sunset |
| 15:55.06 | DocScrutinizer | in a completely dark tent |
| 15:55.20 | DocScrutinizer | I thought it killed my LED |
| 15:55.31 | ErwinJunge | How long before it worked again? |
| 15:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | I have *NO* good story what caused this issue |
| 15:55.51 | ErwinJunge | Not that I have any idea what's happening, but it's nice to know I don't have to panic when it eventually happens to me :) |
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| 15:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: I think one night at ~4'o it worked. In the 'morning' it didn't |
| 15:56.22 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, for me it was seconds to get it back to normal LED brightness level, though I've only left it out in direct sunlight on and off for total of maybe 20-30 mins |
| 15:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | as it didn't at midnight |
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| 15:57.39 | psycho_oreos | I thought it was light sensor but I never bother getting to the bottom of it. It was apparent to me when after knocking off work and heading back home (driving) I left my N900 sitting in the passenger seat |
| 15:57.46 | DocScrutinizer | NFC if it's a thermal effect, or a fsckup in MCE, or a weird LED_plays_photovoltaic, or whatever |
| 15:58.16 | psycho_oreos | contemplates on having the N900 upside down next time and see if the LED brightness level still changes |
| 15:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | I tend to blame thermal effects |
| 15:58.50 | ErwinJunge | It's only an indicator, right? So if it does fail it's not that important? |
| 15:58.53 | psycho_oreos | *nods* well that wouldn't help in any case with the device being put inside a hot car for a brief moment :) |
| 15:58.58 | DocScrutinizer | LED way hotter than LP5523, or sth |
| 15:59.20 | psycho_oreos | it is important if you want to see the status of your device without having the screen on |
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| 15:59.38 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: given the fact it's the *nly* indicator, it is just bad enough if it fails |
| 15:59.45 | ErwinJunge | Never really use it anyway, only during charging. |
| 15:59.56 | psycho_oreos | there's a program in extras-devel that allows you to set indicator for charge levels |
| 16:00.13 | DocScrutinizer | it signals missed calls, device on status, whatnot else |
| 16:00.17 | ErwinJunge | Yeah, noticed that. Don't care so much though :) |
| 16:00.47 | psycho_oreos | battery low status (if one installs that program from extras-devel as well) |
| 16:00.47 | ErwinJunge | I know what it does, just doesn't seem very critical to me. I tend to open my phone when I pick it up ;) |
| 16:00.52 | DocScrutinizer | and I had that annoying strange effect on both of my N900 |
| 16:01.27 | ErwinJunge | But we're veering wildly off topic here. I'll shut up now and let people explain what happened to DocScrutinizer's led |
| 16:01.34 | psycho_oreos | I hardly take both my N900 out, but I guess now I'm not alone with this issue as well |
| 16:01.42 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: I don't pick my phone up each time I pass by, when it sits there charging |
| 16:02.03 | ErwinJunge | silently points up ;) |
| 16:03.30 | DocScrutinizer | I noticed the green "charged" indication showed as dim as "visible when you hold the device to touch your eye's lens", and all random noisy brightness |
| 16:04.40 | psycho_oreos | I guess if the device is capable of detecting higher than average ambient temperatures and compensates the lighting level for LED, it sort of makes sense. It is trying to prevent LED running at max PWM and risk getting damaged despite higher than average ambient temperatures noted. |
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| 16:05.49 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: sounds reasonable, yes |
| 16:07.17 | jurop88 | hi all |
| 16:07.22 | psycho_oreos | again, I'm really tempted to give my initial theory a try, having N900 flipped upside down in a bid to prevent a lower PWM emitting level. I won't be able to get a proper result until Thursday as I believe natural lighting and even potentially higher than average temperatures could be the cause. |
| 16:07.36 | DocScrutinizer | the "funny" part though is I never noticed that behaviour when device got endogen hot, e.g by heavy 3G usage etc |
| 16:07.43 | jurop88 | anybody with hints on ramzez/compcache on N900? |
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| 16:07.52 | psycho_oreos | and Thursday is when I get to go to work, driving 20-30 mins. |
| 16:08.34 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: the difference would be the LED itself sitting on a relatively cool place in that case, while LP5523 still as hot as it got in my tent |
| 16:08.36 | psycho_oreos | its probably getting its ambient temperature readings elsewhere, or maybe having values cross referenced by another sensor but I wouldn't know to be honest |
| 16:09.05 | jurop88 | from time to time I saw the argument mentioned on irc and tmo |
| 16:09.56 | jurop88 | but no clear pointers if it could deserve or not some efforts |
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| 16:10.41 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, wait lemme get this straight, LP5523 = keyboard lights, not the multi-coloured LED light right? If that's the case there's some distance between the two.. maybe they are controlled by different chipsets and obtain their information or whatever elsewhere |
| 16:10.48 | DocScrutinizer | jurop88: it got implemented by some users here IIRC. Also it seems N9(50) harmattan has it OOTB |
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| 16:11.36 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: LP5523 controlls both kbd BL _and_ 3color ind-LED |
| 16:11.36 | psycho_oreos | some distance = maybe 10cm *snickers* |
| 16:11.36 | psycho_oreos | ahh |
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| 16:12.11 | DocScrutinizer | 6 kbd led, "3" ind-LED == the max of 9 LEDs a LP5523 can handle |
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| 16:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | the chip is on main-PCB (iirc), the ind-LED is... well you know where it is |
| 16:13.08 | jurop88 | DocScrutinizer: ty |
| 16:13.15 | DocScrutinizer | jurop88: yw |
| 16:14.00 | DocScrutinizer | jurop88: maybe some user will pop up here and tell about their efort to implement compcache etc into powerkernel |
| 16:14.33 | psycho_oreos | heh I haven't dived far enough to understand those, though surely if LP5523 gets as hot as your tent in that case, surely the keyboard LED would probably be affected in some ways? if not maybe for the 3 indicator LED run on a different MCE settings due to the nature of their design (i.e. they may not be able to take as much ambient temperature as those on the keyboard LED)? |
| 16:14.34 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: jacekowski: ^^^^ was this one of you who bothered about it? |
| 16:14.40 | psycho_oreos | yup |
| 16:14.42 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you? ^^^^ |
| 16:15.23 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: yes, possibly |
| 16:15.55 | SpeedEvil | IIRC my LED worked just fine at 57C |
| 16:15.59 | jurop88 | DocScrutinizer: I'll try opening a thread on TMO |
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| 16:16.23 | SpeedEvil | (GPS loggig in greenhouse) |
| 16:16.32 | jurop88 | DocScrutinizer: I am looking for something to keep my mind running |
| 16:16.34 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: my idea is along the line: LP5523 temp compensation works as long as ind-LED is not at same temp as chip |
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| 16:17.11 | TimmyT | i've connected my N900 to my PC, then run gparted, but i see it shows that 27 GB partition as unallocated. Why? |
| 16:17.31 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: jacekowski cehteh: compcache et al that is |
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| 16:18.26 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, *nod* so there's definitely a light/ambient heat sensor somewhere. |
| 16:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: connection to PC does NOT expose *raw* device, so using partitioning tools this way is 'nonsense' |
| 16:18.38 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: inside LP5523 |
| 16:19.13 | psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, 3 indicator LED? and with the device's screen facing up against the natural light? |
| 16:19.20 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ahh |
| 16:19.23 | DocScrutinizer | it doesn't make sense this contraption fails when ind-LED is actually same temp as chip |
| 16:20.05 | DocScrutinizer | but anyway it's the only straight story I could come up with |
| 16:20.22 | TimmyT | so wat will happen if i make partition here? |
| 16:20.34 | DocScrutinizer | you'll ruin your MyDocs |
| 16:21.18 | jurop88 | DocScrutinizer: Tigerite probably was the one, found something on TMO |
| 16:21.19 | TimmyT | im asking cuz im going to install nitdroid on my device and on its internal storage |
| 16:21.39 | DocScrutinizer | good luck! |
| 16:22.21 | TimmyT | so how can i shrink it into 2 different partitions? |
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| 16:22.31 | DocScrutinizer | hmmm |
| 16:23.16 | psycho_oreos | there's sfdisk |
| 16:23.25 | DocScrutinizer | there *should* be some instructions on tmo about it |
| 16:23.43 | DocScrutinizer | but it's not simple anyway |
| 16:24.08 | psycho_oreos | you don't actually shrink, iirc you just create two separate partition |
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| 16:24.31 | psycho_oreos | hmm if you have busybox-power, there's fdisk which imo is much friendlier than sfdisk |
| 16:25.04 | TimmyT | no, i don't, seems i've to use sfdisk |
| 16:25.06 | DocScrutinizer | PFFF messybox-power, an antinom |
| 16:26.20 | psycho_oreos | antinom? |
| 16:26.36 | psycho_oreos | there's also parted as well |
| 16:27.18 | TimmyT | is it possible to install/use/port android apps on maemo? |
| 16:27.54 | DocScrutinizer | green crimson |
| 16:28.19 | DocScrutinizer | is an antinom |
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| 16:31.55 | x29a | TimmyT: id say porting is possible ;) |
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| 16:33.45 | TimmyT | that's great :D, so isn't there any group of users or any project for this? like a website that its users port famous apps of android for maemo |
| 16:33.47 | TimmyT | ? |
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| 16:37.19 | psycho_oreos | TimmyT, http://www.myriadgroup.com/Device-Manufacturers/Android-solutions/Alien-Dalvik.aspx |
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| 16:41.59 | ErwinJunge | TimmyT: wouldn't that require having the source code for those famous apps? |
| 16:42.38 | TimmyT | of course source codes are needed |
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| 16:44.17 | psycho_oreos | good luck in getting those then |
| 16:45.02 | ErwinJunge | I'd say we've found the reason there's no group of users or project for this :) You'll never get the source for those famous apps. |
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| 16:45.30 | TimmyT | i mean somethin like teamviewer or some free/opensource projects like that |
| 16:45.39 | psycho_oreos | obviously, its as useful as asking nokia for source codes on its proprietary softwares |
| 16:46.19 | psycho_oreos | there's no point getting source codes if the existing codebase to run it off hasn't been made or isn't stable |
| 16:47.25 | ErwinJunge | TimmyT: a quick google shows that it's free for non-commercial use, but it doesn't say "here's the source" |
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| 16:48.50 | ErwinJunge | That would be the "free as in beer, not free as in speech" variety of free |
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| 16:50.26 | TimmyT | so it rly sucks :D, i don't like to use apps that their source codes are not published, so it seems andorid isn't a real gnu/linux project and yeah i win the struggle yesterday i had with my friend in LUG, he said android is better than any other OS and i said no, now it seems it is not as free as gnu/linux is. |
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| 16:53.12 | Sicelo | maemo also isn't |
| 16:53.43 | TimmyT | for what? |
| 16:54.21 | Sicelo | isn't as free as gnu/linux |
| 16:54.49 | ErwinJunge | No phone OS is |
| 16:55.05 | psycho_oreos | openmoko might be |
| 16:55.11 | ErwinJunge | Maemo does come closest though |
| 16:55.16 | GAN950 | Sicelo, more of it is than many others. |
| 16:55.26 | ErwinJunge | No realistic phone OS is (better?) |
| 16:56.14 | TimmyT | GAN950 is right |
| 16:56.33 | TimmyT | maemo is better than iOS |
| 16:56.36 | Sicelo | meego even more so |
| 16:56.39 | TimmyT | but wat about meego? |
| 16:57.33 | psycho_oreos | android is better than iOS, android doesn't even have that walled garden approach |
| 16:57.39 | TimmyT | yeah, seems meego is more, but it seems intel doesn't develop it for mobile devices anymore, just for netbooks and tablets and other things |
| 16:57.43 | fizzie | I recall an openmoko user complaining there was some binary blob driver in there somewhere. But that was years ago. |
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| 16:59.04 | psycho_oreos | intel is only keen in manufacturing processors rather than a full fledge mobile device. |
| 16:59.32 | TimmyT | is openmoko a dead project? |
| 16:59.36 | psycho_oreos | no |
| 16:59.59 | TimmyT | so is there any stable release to install on n900? |
| 17:00.12 | psycho_oreos | what stable release |
| 17:00.45 | TimmyT | stable release of openmoko |
| 17:00.52 | psycho_oreos | facepalms |
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| 17:02.50 | DocScrutinizer | fizzie: there is a blob for GFX on openmoko |
| 17:03.26 | DocScrutinizer | just like on your desktop PC for your high-end GFX card |
| 17:03.58 | psycho_oreos | correction intel is only keen in manufacturing chipsets as well as processors. In addition to that, they flaunted their moorestown based CPU, x86 on a device roughly the size of a mobile phone. Aava mobile was as such a recent user of intel CPU on mobile |
| 17:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: no, OM the distro is dead. There's SHR though |
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| 17:04.58 | psycho_oreos | and I can imagine one will have plent of fun installing OM the distro on N900 |
| 17:05.44 | fizzie | An openmoko user sounds like the sort of person who doesn't have any blobs on their desktop. |
| 17:06.27 | DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: and there's no such thing like OpenMoko 'project', it's more like OM_the_INC (now building video portal web applications), OM2008_the_distro (obsoloete), and OM_the_community (still alive, see SHR/FSO, #openmoko-cdevel) |
| 17:06.44 | luke-jr_ | OpenMoko revived? |
| 17:07.38 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: eh? |
| 17:07.55 | luke-jr_ | dunno, talk about OpenMoko makes me hope there's a new one :P |
| 17:07.59 | luke-jr_ | maybe I'm desperate |
| 17:08.31 | psycho_oreos | I think we're sort of seeing the dying embers of openmoko :p the last I checked hardware community seems to be fairly active |
| 17:08.34 | DocScrutinizer | oh yeah, obviously you are :-P |
| 17:08.38 | DocScrutinizer | http://openmoko.com/ |
| 17:09.32 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.freesmartphone.org// |
| 17:11.08 | DocScrutinizer | http://shr-project.org/trac |
| 17:11.18 | DocScrutinizer | /join #openmoko-cdevel |
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| 17:13.59 | MOUD | hello |
| 17:14.13 | *** part/#maemo fvahid (~fvahid@unaffiliated/fvahid) |
| 17:16.33 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah (~Dibblah@mauve.plus.com) |
| 17:17.41 | MOUD | i have installed the community ssu update on my phone and then installed MobileHotspot (using FAP). everytime i try Start the hotspot it gives me the error "Hotspot failed to start". Can anyone help me fix it? |
| 17:18.10 | DocScrutinizer | don't use FAP |
| 17:18.42 | DocScrutinizer | it's known to fail for anything beyond mere basics |
| 17:19.39 | trumee | jacekowski: TLS with sip is working fine on N900 now. |
| 17:20.13 | MOUD | i see. i tried downloading Power Kernel but it conflicts with 4 packages (according to App Manager). Is there any solution? |
| 17:20.26 | jacekowski | install it from terminal |
| 17:21.08 | MOUD | can u share the command plz? |
| 17:21.18 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 17:22.11 | trumee | jacekowski: unfortunately no sRTP support :(, http://www.mail-archive.com/farsight-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg00575.html |
| 17:22.12 | jacekowski | i don't remember |
| 17:22.17 | jacekowski | apt-get install something |
| 17:22.28 | jacekowski | you have to google what that something is exactly |
| 17:22.38 | jacekowski | iirc it was something like power-kernel-flasher |
| 17:22.40 | jacekowski | or something like that |
| 17:22.46 | MOUD | ok, tks |
| 17:22.58 | DocScrutinizer | when it conflicts, odds are you are killing yur system on force-installing |
| 17:23.09 | DocScrutinizer | use HAM!! |
| 17:23.18 | rly | So, I flashed it, but now I just see a kind of loading screen. |
| 17:23.21 | DocScrutinizer | FAP is KNOWN to fail on powerkernel |
| 17:23.48 | MOUD | ok i will |
| 17:24.16 | *** join/#maemo jevin (~jevin@ec2-174-129-222-35.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
| 17:24.19 | MOUD | btw, is community ssu update worth installing? |
| 17:24.34 | DocScrutinizer | yes, probably it is |
| 17:25.04 | DocScrutinizer | It should at least - hope the guys have fixed some of the major issues I complained about |
| 17:26.10 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless you may want to create a backup of /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch prior to installing cssu - I guess this bit still didn't make it yet into most recent cssu rev |
| 17:28.09 | DocScrutinizer | there are some really kinky things in cssu, one of them - as referred to here - being the forced "upgrade" to a new camera UI that can't get reverted except by a complete reflash. Though camera-ui absolutely isn't a component that qualifies for inclusion to cssu |
| 17:29.17 | DocScrutinizer | backup camara-ui.launch binary so you have a chance to rollback to stock camera if you don't like the new one |
| 17:29.43 | rly | How do I play FM radio on this thing? |
| 17:29.51 | rly | I am in the mediaplayer. |
| 17:29.59 | rly | It should list FM somewhere. |
| 17:30.03 | *** join/#maemo rcg2 (~rc@e183145235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:30.07 | rly | (according to the FM) |
| 17:30.17 | DocScrutinizer | I suggested cssu upgrade process shall do that automatically, but I think the guys didn't bother to include it to latest rev |
| 17:30.20 | rly | (that was a pun) |
| 17:30.42 | DocScrutinizer | for FM radio you need radio app |
| 17:30.48 | DocScrutinizer | it's not in mediaplayer |
| 17:31.16 | scoobertron | DocScrutinizer: is there a way I can tell if I am up to date with cssu? I installed it a while back, but have not been notified of any updates. Also, is there a testing version I can track? |
| 17:31.44 | rly | DocScrutinizer: where can I find this application? |
| 17:31.46 | DocScrutinizer | scoobertron: in settings there's an "about CSSU" look there for version, compare |
| 17:31.54 | DocScrutinizer | rly: in HAM |
| 17:31.59 | rly | DocScrutinizer: or is it not included by default? |
| 17:32.09 | *** join/#maemo hiemanshu_N950 (~hiemanshu@122.167.219.136) |
| 17:32.09 | DocScrutinizer | no you need to install it |
| 17:32.22 | rly | ,HAM |
| 17:32.27 | rly | ,flash |
| 17:32.31 | DocScrutinizer | hildon app manager |
| 17:32.51 | rly | DocScrutinizer: do I need to root it to do that? |
| 17:33.06 | rly | I also should not be asking all these questions here. |
| 17:33.11 | DocScrutinizer | rly: WTF are U talking bout?? |
| 17:33.24 | DocScrutinizer | root maemo?? what's that? |
| 17:33.28 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~gecko@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 17:33.55 | rly | DocScrutinizer: basically install some application which allows one to get root. |
| 17:34.02 | DocScrutinizer | pffff |
| 17:34.12 | rly | There was some website which said you needed to install something to do that. |
| 17:34.16 | DocScrutinizer | install rootsh if you haven't done yet |
| 17:34.21 | rly | Right, that one. |
| 17:34.30 | *** part/#maemo peterbjornxz (~peterbosc@D97B8FC5.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 17:34.49 | *** join/#maemo hiemanshu_N950 (~ircchatte@122.167.219.136) |
| 17:34.51 | DocScrutinizer | and no, you don't need root access to install FM-Radio pkg in HAM |
| 17:35.18 | *** join/#maemo paroneayea (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 17:35.20 | *** join/#maemo peterbjornxz (~peterbosc@D97B8FC5.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 17:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | basically you never need root access for the level of things you are interested in, judging to your questions here |
| 17:36.32 | DocScrutinizer | so my advice would be you don't even bother about rootsh until you know why you would need it |
| 17:36.48 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@85.26.155.132) |
| 17:36.49 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-19-24.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:36.49 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 17:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | odds are you kill your system rather than do anything you planned to do, when using root access indiscriminately |
| 17:37.50 | DocScrutinizer | learn to use the plain system prior to bithering about "rooting" |
| 17:38.49 | *** join/#maemo nid0 (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 17:38.49 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-78-145-115-241.as13285.net) |
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| 17:39.50 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 17:39.58 | DocScrutinizer | rly: unlike windows crap you got a proper installation management on linux, and you don't need C to install B to use A, usually |
| 17:40.19 | rly | DocScrutinizer: believe it or not, but I am a very competent Linux user. |
| 17:40.30 | DocScrutinizer | you don't need to find libs to make acme-app work, app manager will take care about all that for you |
| 17:40.31 | rly | DocScrutinizer: I just am not much of a smartphone user. |
| 17:41.06 | rly | My adhoc network seems to be extremely sluggish. |
| 17:41.07 | *** join/#maemo MOUD (~chatzilla@79.170.51.172) |
| 17:41.13 | MOUD | hello again |
| 17:41.42 | MOUD | after installing power-kernel-flasher, hotspot worked again :) |
| 17:41.44 | DocScrutinizer | rly: old running gag: N900 is _not_ a phone |
| 17:41.52 | rly | Is there anything I can do to improve that? |
| 17:42.01 | MOUD | tks Doc and jacekowski |
| 17:42.11 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 17:42.29 | DocScrutinizer | MOUD: HAM would've taken care about all that |
| 17:42.40 | DocScrutinizer | FAPman doesn't |
| 17:43.15 | DocScrutinizer | it fails on certain system level packages |
| 17:43.17 | MOUD | DocScrutinizer: HAM didnt, it said that there were conflicting packages. I tried both HAM and FAP before asking |
| 17:43.20 | *** join/#maemo klasu_ (~klasu@a88-115-193-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:44.11 | DocScrutinizer | MOUD: if there are conflicting packages then you have a probelm that won't go away by forcing sth to install despite the conflicts |
| 17:44.30 | DocScrutinizer | you are increasing number and complexity of your problems |
| 17:45.01 | rly | Ok, it seems that it is more of a directional access point. |
| 17:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | while A migght work now, odds are you broke B, C, and D by force-installing |
| 17:45.15 | MOUD | DocScrutinizer: actually apt-get solved the problem, now im using MobileHotspot on my laptop (was using XCHAT from my n900) |
| 17:45.15 | rly | (the one provided by Linux) |
| 17:46.35 | DocScrutinizer | conflicts are sth you should resolve and ask for help if you can't get it solved |
| 17:47.23 | DocScrutinizer | usually there's a bug somewhere that is causing these conflicts, or you followed a incorrect procedure to install sth previously |
| 17:47.43 | rly | Do I also have to install the hildon app manager? |
| 17:47.51 | rly | I got rootsh now. |
| 17:47.57 | DocScrutinizer | it comes OOTB |
| 17:48.14 | MOUD | btw, is MEEGO worth installing? (is it the same version of N9?) |
| 17:48.27 | rly | Ok, and where can I find it? I didn't see it anywhere and I have in the menus tons of times now. |
| 17:48.31 | DocScrutinizer | it's the only way to install *anything* on a plain maemo fremantle system |
| 17:49.01 | rly | I got it. |
| 17:49.28 | rly | It says there are conflicts. |
| 17:49.34 | wmarone | MOUD: the software on the N9 and MeeGo are mostly unrelated |
| 17:49.41 | DocScrutinizer | MOUD: no, not same as N9. And probably no, not worth it for you (yet) |
| 17:50.02 | MOUD | i see |
| 17:50.10 | rly | 'conflict with applicationpackages: Maemo 5 (3.2010.02-8) |
| 17:50.33 | rly | ', that's a translation of what I get.\ |
| 17:50.33 | DocScrutinizer | wut? |
| 17:50.45 | DocScrutinizer | power-kernel? |
| 17:51.11 | rly | 'Cannot install 'FM Radio Player'' followed by the stuff I wrote above. |
| 17:51.18 | DocScrutinizer | duh |
| 17:51.35 | DocScrutinizer | sounds like your system needs an update *urgently* |
| 17:52.04 | rly | DocScrutinizer: where can I find the latest (this seemed the latest available)? |
| 17:52.05 | DocScrutinizer | 3.2010.02-8 looks to me like PR1.1 or sth, not PR1.3 aka recent |
| 17:52.28 | DocScrutinizer | rly: honest advice? reflash |
| 17:53.03 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube (~ghost@unaffiliated/ghostcube) |
| 17:53.08 | DocScrutinizer | though you *might* still be able to update SSU OTA, it's quite possibly a lengthy and PITA procedure |
| 17:53.31 | DocScrutinizer | like taking hours instead of minutes the reflash will take |
| 17:53.42 | rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, never mind. I see what I did wrong. |
| 17:53.53 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 17:54.23 | rly | I have no idea what SSU OTA means, though. |
| 17:54.23 | DocScrutinizer | did a apt-get distupgrade ? |
| 17:54.38 | mgedmin | "Seamless Software Update Over The Air" |
| 17:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | Seamless Softaware Update - Over The Air |
| 17:54.41 | rly | No, does it come with apt-get by default? |
| 17:54.58 | mgedmin | maemo uses apt-get (which is why installing/upgrading packages is so damn slow) |
| 17:55.04 | DocScrutinizer | yes, but you better don't usually use it |
| 17:55.29 | DocScrutinizer | and doinf a distupgrade surely will kill your system |
| 17:55.56 | rly | Ah, cool, people who understand that apt-get is not the best system imaginable. |
| 17:56.12 | DocScrutinizer | it's the only one we got |
| 17:56.34 | rly | DocScrutinizer: nix is better in many ways. |
| 17:56.48 | rly | Just less popular and less packages. |
| 17:57.05 | DocScrutinizer | and HAM works on top of it, while adding additional checks and magic to make sure things will stay consistent |
| 17:58.08 | DocScrutinizer | while FAPman doesn't do a comprehensive set of that additional magic, that's why it frequently renders your sw management and system in an inconsistent state |
| 17:58.23 | *** join/#maemo Blaatmeister (~blaatmeis@blaatmeister.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:59.11 | DocScrutinizer | usin apt directly is a sure way to break things if you don't know your way around some of the special maemo idiosyncrasies as well as general apt usage |
| 17:59.26 | rly | I think my wifi is the largest problem. I should get a real access point. |
| 17:59.43 | rly | How fast can you transfer stuff if the wifi access point is 100Mb? |
| 18:00.00 | DocScrutinizer | yoh, a decent AP with proper support for WLAN PSM is essential |
| 18:00.09 | rly | What is PSM? |
| 18:00.17 | DocScrutinizer | power savings mode |
| 18:00.34 | rly | Does that save power on the phone? |
| 18:00.38 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 18:00.49 | rly | That sounds ... non-trivial. |
| 18:01.03 | DocScrutinizer | by aggregating data to large chunks and sending it on a scheduled basis |
| 18:01.36 | DocScrutinizer | so device can go asleep for fractions of seconds or even several seconds |
| 18:02.41 | DocScrutinizer | efects of broken PSM are stalling connections, packet loss, or huge delays in the range of up to minutes |
| 18:02.55 | mgedmin | hm |
| 18:03.13 | DocScrutinizer | or you config PSM to "none" on your N900 and watch battery getting eaten in hours |
| 18:03.26 | mgedmin | broken PSM seems to be noticeable mostly with things like inbound SSH into your n900 |
| 18:03.44 | mgedmin | I don't think I ever noticed any problems when connections were initiated on the n900 itself |
| 18:03.58 | DocScrutinizer | sure, it's most relevant for inbound data streams |
| 18:03.58 | rly | Is PSM an 'advanced' feature or does basically every AP have it these days? |
| 18:04.31 | DocScrutinizer | rly: should be a comon feature, but there are quite a number of borked implementations |
| 18:04.38 | lupine_85 | fewer packages compared to what ? |
| 18:04.40 | mgedmin | in theory PSM should be transparent; in practice many APs implement it incorrectly and you end up being unable to, e.g., ping your n900 |
| 18:05.16 | DocScrutinizer | lupine_85: ?? |
| 18:05.32 | rly | mgedmin: which models do work? |
| 18:05.39 | mgedmin | that's a good question |
| 18:05.50 | lupine_85 | <rly> Just less popular and less packages. |
| 18:05.53 | mgedmin | "none of mine, apparently" is the only answer I can give you :) |
| 18:05.56 | DocScrutinizer | seems there's no decent compatibility list |
| 18:06.09 | rly | A melons market. |
| 18:06.13 | rly | How annoying. |
| 18:06.16 | DocScrutinizer | my d-link dir-615 seems to work |
| 18:06.27 | nid0 | not sure about the current gen, but no older netgears play nicely |
| 18:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | also dependent on firmware version on AP I guess |
| 18:07.04 | *** join/#maemo hiemanshu_N950 (~hiemanshu@122.167.219.136) |
| 18:07.05 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 18:07.05 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08A062.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:07.14 | lupine_85 | wonders about his openwrt'd buffalo with atheros |
| 18:07.30 | lupine_85 | Luci doesn't expose it |
| 18:08.00 | DocScrutinizer | openwrt should probably 'just work' |
| 18:08.00 | mgedmin | has an openwrt'ed buffalo wrt-g500nh or something like that |
| 18:08.00 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 18:08.00 | DocScrutinizer | a PITA |
| 18:08.19 | *** join/#maemo hiemanshu_N950 (~hiemanshu@122.167.219.136) |
| 18:08.25 | DocScrutinizer | bottom line: keep the coupon when you buy a new AP |
| 18:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | test PSM instantly, if it fails just return device to seller |
| 18:08.58 | mgedmin | how do you test PSM? |
| 18:09.20 | mgedmin | other than "notice that _sometimes_ -- but not always -- things don't work when you want them to work" |
| 18:09.21 | rly | Does that work? "Contrived feature X does not work => it is broken." |
| 18:09.33 | mgedmin | intermittent brokenness is hard to diagnose :( |
| 18:09.43 | DocScrutinizer | to test PSM you could ssh in to N900 from your PC, and see if it has delays or stalls after some 60..500s of inactivity |
| 18:09.54 | rly | They simply will connect it and show a laptop connected to it or their phone in a different setting. |
| 18:10.13 | DocScrutinizer | you should disable all concurrent internet access on N900 while you test |
| 18:10.14 | *** join/#maemo hiemanshu_N950 (~hiemanshu@122.167.219.136) |
| 18:10.25 | DocScrutinizer | as that would prevent WLAN to even enter PSM |
| 18:10.41 | *** join/#maemo hiemanshu_N950 (~hiemanshu@fedora/hiemanshu) |
| 18:11.49 | DocScrutinizer | so DO NOT run skype, or IM, or anything like that, while you test PSM via the ssh-in method |
| 18:12.49 | rly | How long should the battery last if you just use it as a phone? |
| 18:13.07 | *** join/#maemo TimmyT (~timmy@unaffiliated/timmyt) |
| 18:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | you should see delay from key press to char appearing on screen of your PC in the ssh window, of >0.2 and <2 seconds |
| 18:13.19 | DocScrutinizer | rly: some 5..8 days |
| 18:13.20 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef3de00-234.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:13.51 | ErwinJunge | Hm... that PSM thing explains why I can't SSH in without opening a webpage first on the phone. |
| 18:13.54 | rly | DocScrutinizer: and it halfs every year? |
| 18:14.12 | rly | (that's what laptop batteries do at least) |
| 18:14.28 | ErwinJunge | 5-8 days? Wow. I'm only getting approx 1 day.. |
| 18:15.19 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption |
| 18:15.50 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: exactly |
| 18:16.28 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: set PWM to none in settings-WLAN-advanced to test the difference |
| 18:16.56 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: 1 day is about normal when you also have enabled GPRS |
| 18:16.57 | ErwinJunge | difference in ssh responsiveness, or in power usage? |
| 18:17.07 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@201.47.19.25.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 18:17.16 | ErwinJunge | Ah, I count gprs as "just use it as a phone" |
| 18:17.17 | DocScrutinizer | responsiveness |
| 18:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: see theURL ^^^ |
| 18:20.30 | ErwinJunge | Interesting measurements. Apparantly having good 3G signal costs me 8mA extra. |
| 18:20.38 | *** join/#maemo playya (~playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 18:22.09 | ErwinJunge | I am going to test the PWM thing btw, but need to wait for the connection to drop first (had a running ssh connection, which sends keepalive packets) |
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| 18:26.31 | *** join/#maemo till (till@r021.red.fastwebserver.de) |
| 18:26.40 | DocScrutinizer | regarding compatibility list I strongly suggest all users care to update http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_power_saving_mode#Routers_known_to_be_incompatible_with_PSM_mode with their findings |
| 18:29.17 | ErwinJunge | Hm... crap. Just tested, but it was still alive. It's hard to know when to test :) When should it go into PSM? |
| 18:29.35 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 18:30.44 | DocScrutinizer | immediately if there's PSM max configured and no data traffic active - I.E. after some few seconds |
| 18:31.30 | DocScrutinizer | the borkedness of your particular AP firmware's PSM implementation might show up only occasionally though |
| 18:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | usually it's a matter of scheduling getting out of pace |
| 18:32.32 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~chigge@mnch-5d87a702.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:35.04 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
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| 18:35.18 | DocScrutinizer | anyway a >> while sleep 10; do ping -c 1 192.168.1.1; done << started on N900 should fix quite a number of problems with broken PSM in AP |
| 18:35.57 | DocScrutinizer | you just want to stop this whenever changing to GPRS connection |
| 18:36.11 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 18:36.25 | RST38h | "This further reinforces our belief that opportunities for the growth of Nokia's smartphone business will be greatest with Windows Phone. This could prove to be a massive catalyst for the Windows Phone ecosystem. Additionally, with our respective intellectual property portfolios, Nokia and Microsoft are working together to build and nurture an innovative ecosystem that benefits consumers, operators, developers and other device manufacturers." |
| 18:37.37 | Nido | how do i benefit from not being able to inspect the kernel as a developer, operator, or consumer? |
| 18:37.38 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: so why are you trying to cause me nausea by spamming me with such marketing speak crap? |
| 18:37.43 | mase76 | hi! there is uboot for power v46. but the changelog of the kernel says, that uboot has been disabled. what is right now? |
| 18:38.25 | RST38h | Doc: Just hoping you will throw up and then thank me for cleaning your stomach =) |
| 18:38.46 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: uboot is an independent system that happens to be packaged together with arbitrary kernels |
| 18:38.54 | Nido | mase76: I recall there are different uboot's for different kernels. I am not sure of that though |
| 18:39.20 | mase76 | so it works with v46? |
| 18:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | ""this box contains: 1 pcs kernel power V46; one pcs uboot"" |
| 18:40.30 | DocScrutinizer | there may be other boxes containing uboot + different kernels, as well as boxes that don't contain uboot at all |
| 18:41.31 | *** join/#maemo Dez_ (~Dez@123-243-35-87.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 18:42.00 | mase76 | i am not sure, if maemo with v46 will boot with uboot installed. |
| 18:42.03 | DocScrutinizer | so a package labeled uboot+PK46 most likely is exactly that: a working PK46 plus a uboot in one box |
| 18:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | you can't get uboot without any associated kernel coming with it |
| 18:43.58 | mase76 | and a changelog in v46 that says: disable u-boot as causes too much trouble |
| 18:44.02 | DocScrutinizer | except for uboot source to build yur own uboot+kernel package |
| 18:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: doesn't mean anything except the box content changed |
| 18:45.33 | DocScrutinizer | the v46 powerkernel that comes in the box labeled uboot+PK46 will most likely work with uboot |
| 18:47.01 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 18:48.19 | mase76 | ok thx! |
| 18:48.25 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80-186-125-156.elisa-mobile.fi) |
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| 18:55.28 | rly | I went to maemo.org/rootsh again, pressed the install button, but nothing happens. |
| 18:56.04 | rly | It seems to load it and then does not do anything. |
| 18:56.21 | rly | Flashing deletes all applications, right? |
| 18:56.48 | *** join/#maemo GAN950 (~ryan@32.161.227.20) |
| 18:57.01 | *** join/#maemo GAN950 (~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles) |
| 18:57.26 | rly | I can visit other pages, e.g. the community page just fine. |
| 18:57.47 | Venemo | rly, why don't you install from app manager? |
| 18:58.00 | rly | Venemo: because that one says no applications are available. |
| 18:58.11 | rly | Venemo: likely because no repos are configured. |
| 18:58.26 | Venemo | hm |
| 18:58.31 | Venemo | extras should be there by default |
| 18:58.33 | rly | With the other image installing applications from the website worked. |
| 19:01.56 | *** join/#maemo MOUD (~chatzilla@79.170.51.122) |
| 19:03.11 | rly | I think the most annoying thing is that I cannot see how fast it is working. |
| 19:03.21 | *** join/#maemo rcg1 (~rc@e183145235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:03.24 | rly | E.g. easily visible signal quality, etc. |
| 19:03.35 | rly | KB/s transferred, etc. |
| 19:03.44 | rly | Likely all of these have solutions. |
| 19:11.17 | *** join/#maemo jurop88 (~chatzilla@host41-214-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:11.34 | *** part/#maemo jurop88 (~chatzilla@host41-214-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 19:12.28 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (~Atarii@unaffiliated/atarii) |
| 19:12.33 | Nido | I think I have a problem. I tried to flash my phone. I took out the battery, put it back in, ran 'flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f' and attached the phone while pressing 'u'. The flash went for ~20% and then returned to shell. trying again returns 'SU_GET_UPDATE_STATUS_REQ terminated with error code 1.'; trying 'flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f' seems to just list its contents (it |
| 19:12.48 | rly | Venemo: any idea? |
| 19:13.08 | *** join/#maemo rcg2 (~rc@e183144133.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:13.33 | rly | How can I install an application if maemo.org's install button does not work and the application manager does not list any application? |
| 19:13.42 | rly | I am using the latest image. |
| 19:14.39 | Venemo | rly, can you tell me which firmware version you are runnin? |
| 19:15.17 | rly | RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM |
| 19:15.42 | rly | Ok, the download is stuck at 0.14KB |
| 19:16.07 | rly | No idea as to why. |
| 19:16.12 | rly | I can browse anything else. |
| 19:16.15 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-58-51.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:16.42 | Venemo | rly, please launch the app manager, and open the menu, then see what repositories are there. |
| 19:16.52 | Venemo | rly, there should be a "maemo.org" repo |
| 19:17.13 | Venemo | then you should update the list and you should be able to install rootsh from there. |
| 19:17.25 | rly | Venemo: it works now |
| 19:17.37 | rly | Venemo: not maemo, though. |
| 19:18.06 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 19:18.09 | rly | Venemo: (the install button) |
| 19:18.48 | rly | It seemed that the wifi connection for downloading the 7MB was fairly fast. |
| 19:19.04 | rly | I.e., not limited by my ad hoc AP or the device. |
| 19:19.24 | rly | Just installation takes long (nothing new for you) |
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| 19:32.31 | Nido | fixed. removed the battery and tried again |
| 19:33.06 | rly | Ok, this works... great :) |
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| 19:37.45 | mase76 | <DocScrutinizer: the device does not boot with uboot-power. i reflashed nolo and the stock kernel to make it boot again. |
| 19:38.20 | DocScrutinizer | reflashed NOLO? WTF? |
| 19:39.19 | mase76 | that was the only way. |
| 19:40.38 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.147.254) |
| 19:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: sorry to hear you got problems. I can't imagine the uboot+pk46 pkg didn't work for anybody though. If HAM doesn't include the pk46-modules and pk46-flasher packages, then it's a broken dependency. If you did install with sth different than HAM, it's a problem of that tool. If you install pk46 first, then install uboot+pk46 package on top of that, I'd guess it shall work anyway, no matter if there are dependency problems. If that |
| 19:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | still doesn't work for you, we had to look closer into what's wrong with that package |
| 19:42.07 | *** join/#maemo TimmyT1 (~timmy@188.158.131.242) |
| 19:42.33 | mase76 | i did so. installed uboot afterwards. |
| 19:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: your statement that flashing of stock keenl made it work again leads me to the conclusion the matching modules for PK46 didn't get installed |
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| 19:43.16 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 19:43.22 | DocScrutinizer | kernel* |
| 19:43.33 | *** join/#maemo angelox|laptop (~angelo@189-46-9-199.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 19:44.49 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@216.207.36.222) |
| 19:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | make sure you install the matching kernel-modules package along with the kernel (or kernel+uboot) package |
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| 19:46.51 | DocScrutinizer | installing a kernel always comprises of kernel, kernel-flasher, kernel-modules. I.E. three pkgs that need to get installed in a certain sequence |
| 19:47.04 | rly | Do I need to do anything special to get the GPS to work? |
| 19:47.17 | rly | Or does it just suck a lot? |
| 19:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | inserting a SIM helps a lot usually |
| 19:47.37 | rly | DocScrutinizer: are you serious? |
| 19:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | plain view to sky also is kinda mandatory |
| 19:48.01 | rly | DocScrutinizer: I had plain view to sky. |
| 19:48.09 | DocScrutinizer | not just stright up but from horizon to horizon |
| 19:48.52 | DocScrutinizer | rly: look at my avatar, do I look like I had any humour? ;-P |
| 19:49.05 | rly | DocScrutinizer: this is IRC, there are no avatars. |
| 19:49.18 | rly | But on some imaginary forum, there probably are. |
| 19:49.30 | DocScrutinizer | rly: so ok, yes I'm serious about SIM helping a lot with TTFF for GPS |
| 19:49.58 | rly | DocScrutinizer: do you also know why that is? |
| 19:50.10 | rly | ~TTFF |
| 19:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise installing and starting location test GUI app also helps |
| 19:50.18 | ShadowJK | time to first fix |
| 19:50.25 | angelox|laptop | Hi all |
| 19:50.53 | rly | DocScrutinizer: what is the package name of that test GUI? |
| 19:50.54 | ShadowJK | Yeah definitely, "Ovi Maps" has ADHD and stops trying after screen blanks or you switch away from it, or... |
| 19:51.04 | DocScrutinizer | ~TTFF is Time To First Fix, a GPS related term |
| 19:51.04 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay |
| 19:51.11 | angelox|laptop | i've low battery(solid red light) and uboot installed,how should i proceed to charge it? Since leaving in wall charger,it powers up but don't boot maemo |
| 19:51.42 | ShadowJK | solid yellow? |
| 19:51.45 | DocScrutinizer | rly: something like "location test GUI" |
| 19:52.07 | angelox|laptop | solid red |
| 19:52.11 | mase76 | modules were installed. |
| 19:52.13 | ShadowJK | how do you get red.. |
| 19:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: solid red means your system already booted to NOLO, and detected some problem with battery |
| 19:53.08 | mase76 | i have a working power kernel v46 now with nolo. you mean, installing uboot will work now? |
| 19:53.08 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. your battery is broken |
| 19:53.15 | rly | How do I input |
| 19:53.19 | rly | 'DEL' btw? |
| 19:53.22 | ErwinJunge | Regarding the "insert a sim for better gps", does it get the ephemeris over 3g or something? |
| 19:53.38 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: should, if the PK version is the same, yes |
| 19:53.49 | ShadowJK | ErwinJunge, initial position estimate, and almanac, atleast |
| 19:54.01 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: Battery Broken? I got this phone about 1 mounth ago :( |
| 19:54.21 | ErwinJunge | But that's not that much info, and officially valid for 180 days. Why not just store that on the phone? |
| 19:54.54 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: there are known cases of early failure of components, in fact those are more frequently than after some burn in time |
| 19:55.13 | ShadowJK | in Maemo4 it was stored, and the last known position was used as initial position :) |
| 19:55.19 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: the phone doesn't know where it is |
| 19:55.31 | ErwinJunge | I meant the almanac |
| 19:55.34 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: and the info isn't really valid for 180 days |
| 19:55.39 | ShadowJK | no idea what maemo5 does |
| 19:55.45 | ErwinJunge | In terms of position, just use last known |
| 19:55.57 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: And what can i do? ''''Please don't tell me cry :)'''' |
| 19:56.02 | ErwinJunge | As long as you don't move a quite large amount, it shouldn't matter |
| 19:56.15 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: try alien charging |
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| 19:56.43 | DocScrutinizer | try another battery on N900, just to make sure it's battery related issue |
| 19:57.00 | ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, what happens to me when battery is empty with uboot, is that I get solid yellow, then uboot starts, uboot starts meego, meego doesn't know how to charge empty battery, phone dies, solid yellow, uboot starts, etc... To break out of that I type "run noloboot" at the uboot prompt (which might be with screen backlight off) to boot maemo, which does seem to charge empty battery successfully |
| 19:57.04 | ErwinJunge | Almanac is officially valid for 180 days, but you're probably going to use the gps more than twice a year. What I'm going for here is that I don't see a point for the sim card, apart from the first fix ever. |
| 19:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: yes, but that's obviously not how it works on N900 GPS |
| 19:57.23 | mase76 | kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb -> uboot-power_0.2-1_armel.deb |
| 19:57.42 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: ok,since almost no one has N900 at Brazil,that will be hard! |
| 19:57.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps |
| 19:57.45 | infobot | rumour has it, rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP |
| 19:57.54 | ErwinJunge | DocScrutinizer: let me guess, this is one of those closed Nokia parts of the phone? |
| 19:58.07 | ShadowJK | I've tried GPS in offline mode a few times on my spare n900, and it has worked on the windowsill |
| 19:58.15 | angelox|laptop | Shadowjk: Yes,that is more like i'm having,the red light shows when i unplug the charger ! let me try |
| 19:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: it's even inside modem |
| 19:58.39 | ErwinJunge | Hm... nasty design choice there |
| 19:58.50 | ShadowJK | or a TI part connected to the Nokia modem, connected to the TI OMAP3 cpu :) |
| 19:59.51 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yes, sounds reasonable (uboot->meego issue) |
| 20:00.07 | rly | Shouldn't that stuff work in hardware? |
| 20:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | charging? no, alas not |
| 20:00.34 | *** join/#maemo e0x (~e0x@cpe-72-226-107-27.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 20:00.57 | rly | I thought he was talking about the location service. |
| 20:01.16 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 20:01.24 | mase76 | and uboot depends on kernel-power-modules (= 2.6.28-maemo46). so there was no missing modules problem. |
| 20:01.30 | rly | GPS is pretty expensive, AFAIK. |
| 20:01.50 | ErwinJunge | The computations are. Where you get the initial info is a simple design choice. |
| 20:01.52 | rly | Fairly sharp timings have to be reached. |
| 20:01.53 | ShadowJK | Charging in hardware works, more or less, until the point where there's enough power to boot. At that point control is handed over to the operating system, and if it fails, charging also fails :) |
| 20:01.57 | ErwinJunge | Software GPS is all but impossible. |
| 20:02.08 | rly | ErwinJunge: and in an FPGA? |
| 20:02.18 | *** join/#maemo timeless (d04149cb@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 20:02.21 | timeless | chuckles |
| 20:02.29 | timeless | so, i'm using w7 w/ my n900 to connect to the internet |
| 20:02.39 | timeless | the name of the connection is `wind` |
| 20:02.41 | timeless | the status of the connection is ... `wind` |
| 20:02.58 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~quassel@ip-88-212-34-237.antik.sk) |
| 20:03.01 | timeless | other networks have statii like `Disabled`, `Not connected`, `Network cable unplugged` |
| 20:03.04 | ErwinJunge | I'm don't really know a lot about FPGA. |
| 20:03.05 | Nido | wait. gps is receiving time signals and calculating the location from the difference. where should this be so expensive it requires an fpga, rly ? |
| 20:03.08 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@201.47.19.25.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 20:03.21 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: with a working uBoot you should see the uboot menu at startup, with a working powerkernel you shall see bootmessages as that kernel comes with bootconsole |
| 20:03.29 | Pali | X-Fade, are you here? |
| 20:03.45 | mase76 | i see "loading kernel", then the n900 powers off. |
| 20:04.41 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: FPGA still are powerhogs |
| 20:04.47 | ErwinJunge | Nido: Because it involves computing the convolution of a 1024 bit pattern against background noise and seeing if you get a 1. Then you have to keep that fix and if you lose it for even one bit, you have to start over. Now do this for at least 4, but usually 8, sats at the same time. |
| 20:05.11 | ErwinJunge | The 1024 might be wrong there btw |
| 20:05.18 | ErwinJunge | My GPS class was about 3 years ago |
| 20:05.40 | DocScrutinizer | Nido: it's abit more complex than just "receive timing signal" when you want to decode signals at -150dB |
| 20:05.43 | SpeedEvil | ErwinJunge: Not quite that bad - usually your local timebase can keep you in sync even if you miss several databits. |
| 20:06.20 | ErwinJunge | SpeedEvil: your local timebase is never accurate enough. Hence the need for at least 4 sats. |
| 20:06.24 | SpeedEvil | ErwinJunge: And of course, you don't need to be able to demodulate individual bits for the signal to be useful for remaining locked to. |
| 20:06.34 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: yes and no |
| 20:06.41 | SpeedEvil | ErwinJunge: Sure - but it doesn't drift out in one bit-time. |
| 20:06.47 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80-186-125-156.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 20:06.48 | Pali | Hello, is there someone who understand garage autobuilder and can help me with autobuilder errors? |
| 20:06.53 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@212.183.128.32) |
| 20:07.03 | DocScrutinizer | local timebase not exact enough for absolute timing, but more than sufficient for 'clock' |
| 20:07.10 | ErwinJunge | At this time I'd like to reiterate my previous disclaimer: My GPS class was 3 years ago and I haven't done anything in the field since :) |
| 20:07.25 | *** part/#maemo mardi (~mardi@212.183.128.32) |
| 20:08.03 | DocScrutinizer | though you have to do the iteration over several sats at unknown doppler shifts |
| 20:08.10 | ErwinJunge | Anyways, the short answer is "you need hw for gps". I'm pretty sure this is still valid. |
| 20:08.22 | DocScrutinizer | and that is what makes things difficult |
| 20:08.28 | *** join/#maemo TimmyT (~timmy@unaffiliated/timmyt) |
| 20:09.00 | DocScrutinizer | you have a LOT of possible input signal patterns and you will find IF one pattern is actually there only by running it thru a correlator |
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| 20:09.22 | DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: yes :-D this is a valid statement |
| 20:10.26 | SpeedEvil | You get software GPSs |
| 20:10.38 | DocScrutinizer | there are concepts of just storing the 'raw noise' from receiver together with e.g. a photo snapshot, and do all the heavy computations later on |
| 20:11.12 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 20:12.52 | rly | What is the default sudo password? |
| 20:13.36 | rly | (and is there any problem in inputting the wrong password numerous times?) |
| 20:13.42 | NIN101 | there is no default sudo password |
| 20:14.13 | NIN101 | (technically the root password what you mean) |
| 20:14.14 | ShadowJK | rly, there is none. You go to application manager, titlebar menu -> application catalogues. "maemo.org" or something like that, make sure that the "Disabled" is *un*ticked. Save, ok, ok, "Download" from main menu in app manager, start typing in "rootsh" and install that. Then when you've got it installed, "root" or "sudo gainroot" gets you root. |
| 20:14.26 | rly | I did sudo apt-get install location-test-gui, but nothing happened. |
| 20:14.31 | rly | OK |
| 20:15.13 | ErwinJunge | waves back |
| 20:15.18 | ErwinJunge | Why are we waving? |
| 20:15.38 | mase76 | DocScrutinizer: i think, the packages don't play together. i need uboot, because i am doing experiments with debian on the device. otherwise i cannot use the power-kernel. |
| 20:15.41 | DocScrutinizer | rly: you're supposed to use HAM, not apt-get |
| 20:15.57 | rly | DocScrutinizer: location-test-gui was not listed. |
| 20:16.04 | ShadowJK | It's in the tools repo |
| 20:16.09 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: strange |
| 20:16.19 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/16/samsung_tab/ <-- hmm |
| 20:16.46 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: you got a package called uboot-pk46? and it doesn't work? |
| 20:17.08 | rly | ShadowJK: there is a web address field, a distribution, and a 'parts/components' field. |
| 20:17.18 | rly | ShadowJK: what exactly is the 'tools' repo? |
| 20:18.22 | mase76 | however i did not retry. i am glad, that i got it to boot again without a complete reflash. the package is called uboot-power_0.2-1_armel.deb. |
| 20:18.52 | *** join/#maemo mesx (~mesx@89-172-235-8.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 20:19.05 | ShadowJK | sec |
| 20:19.42 | ShadowJK | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 |
| 20:20.20 | DocScrutinizer | rly: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools see the "don't click as it will burn your cat" link |
| 20:20.56 | ShadowJK | http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access if you want root access. But keep in mind that although maemo5 might look like debian sometimes, it's not, and things you'd expect to work on debian might make it unbootable. Like "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade" ;p |
| 20:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | joerg.cloud-7.de/repositories.install |
| 20:21.51 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: that's the problem, you are not installing via HAM obviously |
| 20:22.30 | mase76 | no, dpkg -i... |
| 20:22.35 | DocScrutinizer | I told you the real install consists of THREE .deb |
| 20:23.01 | ShadowJK | Are kernels one of those things that are only installable through the application manager? ;p |
| 20:23.13 | *** join/#maemo CaCO3 (~CaCO3@104-236.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 20:23.19 | DocScrutinizer | basically yes |
| 20:23.48 | DocScrutinizer | unless you understand which three .deb to install via dpkg -i, in which sequence |
| 20:24.39 | mase76 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=894983 from on #413 |
| 20:25.05 | *** join/#maemo Roomerlol (~Roomerlol@95-25-124-246.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 20:25.05 | DocScrutinizer | I already told here it's sth like PK-kernel.deb PK-kernel-flasher.deb PK-kernel-modules.deb |
| 20:25.37 | DocScrutinizer | meh, won't go there to do ... what? |
| 20:26.32 | mase76 | maybe an hw revision issue. i have 2104. |
| 20:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 20:26.47 | rly | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 does not contain the word location-test |
| 20:27.15 | DocScrutinizer | damn, can you listen? installing any kernel consists of flashing THREE packages, otherwise it won't work |
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| 20:29.08 | mase76 | i got the three packages installed. |
| 20:29.16 | DocScrutinizer | rly: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37359 |
| 20:29.34 | mase76 | ok, i will try with ham... |
| 20:29.38 | rly | DocScrutinizer: That was were I was 30 minutes ago. |
| 20:29.49 | rly | DocScrutinizer: I was unable to download the linked .deb. |
| 20:30.15 | rly | DocScrutinizer: and that is also not via HAM. |
| 20:30.21 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: uboot hangs at "Starting Kernel...",i also can see the orange/yellow led blinking(like it's charging),but after about 10 secounds,it rebbots |
| 20:30.29 | angelox|laptop | s/rebbots/reboots |
| 20:30.31 | DocScrutinizer | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/l/location-test-gui/location-test-gui_0.92-1+0m5_armel.deb WFM |
| 20:31.00 | mase76 | angelox|laptop: same here |
| 20:31.15 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBF448.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:31.25 | Atarii | is there a readily available to download sources.list with all the extra/testing/devel repos already in it? |
| 20:31.27 | DocScrutinizer | rly: maybe location-test-gui is not available via HAM, though I think it should, if you have the right repo set up |
| 20:31.47 | angelox|laptop | mase76: and you're trying also to fix? |
| 20:31.59 | *** join/#maemo Termana (Sui@217.18.70.242) |
| 20:32.09 | rly | DocScrutinizer: I have been using that address, but it does not receive data. |
| 20:32.15 | ShadowJK | rly, that wikipage only lists a handfull applications in the testing repo. More importantly it has the instructions for how to activate it at the bottom |
| 20:32.24 | DocScrutinizer | rly: it works here |
| 20:32.25 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@c-71-228-220-246.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 20:32.44 | mase76 | angelox|laptop: i think, it is a hw revision issue. no problems with the stock kernel, even installed with dpkg. |
| 20:33.05 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-78-145-115-241.as13285.net) |
| 20:33.14 | rly | DocScrutinizer: it works here too; via my laptop, not via the phone. |
| 20:33.15 | DocScrutinizer | rly: wget http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/l/location-test-gui/location-test-gui_0.92-1+0m5_armel.deb |
| 20:33.22 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 20:33.34 | rly | DocScrutinizer: is wget on the phone by default? |
| 20:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 20:33.43 | DocScrutinizer | think so |
| 20:34.06 | mase76 | rly: no, it isn't. |
| 20:34.13 | rly | That is going to be a pain to type in. |
| 20:34.24 | rly | Perhaps an ssh server on the phone might be a better idea. |
| 20:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | hah yeah |
| 20:34.38 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 20:35.04 | NIN101 | the wiki really needs some spam protection... |
| 20:35.45 | rly | Can I install the ssh server via HAM? |
| 20:35.53 | mase76 | yes |
| 20:36.01 | angelox|laptop | mase76: i can't even boot up :( |
| 20:36.24 | mase76 | i also couldn't. i had to reflash nolo and the stock kernel. |
| 20:36.35 | rly | How can I scroll faster through the menus? |
| 20:36.43 | DocScrutinizer | anyway if you run an xchat client on the phone and you clicked on http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools, you can click on the URL for repositories.install there and it will set up the missing tools repo in HAM to give you access to location-test-gui and others, via HAM |
| 20:36.49 | rly | The screen scrolling is rather slow in HAM. |
| 20:36.54 | angelox|laptop | mase76: i can't even do it |
| 20:37.33 | mase76 | flasher-3.5 -f -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -R |
| 20:37.40 | mase76 | flasher-3.5 -f -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=nolo -R |
| 20:37.42 | Atarii | thanks DocScrutinizer i think that answered my question from earlier |
| 20:37.50 | DocScrutinizer | FORGET NOLO! |
| 20:37.57 | angelox|laptop | the problem is,the phone was turned on 2 hours ago |
| 20:37.59 | DocScrutinizer | you never need to flash NOLO really |
| 20:38.26 | ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, so what did you install before that? |
| 20:38.26 | rly | Is it possible to load the battery and use it at the same time? |
| 20:38.30 | angelox|laptop | and it was saying (low battery),i put it into the charger,and it did power off,and i can't no more do it |
| 20:38.31 | mase76 | but when you have to get rid of uboot, you have. |
| 20:38.45 | ShadowJK | rly, yes |
| 20:38.47 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: Nothing,it was ok |
| 20:39.00 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: but it turned off,even in the charger.. |
| 20:39.11 | ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, Oh, so you don't have uboot then. I must've confused you with someone else, sorry |
| 20:39.18 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: bullshit |
| 20:39.28 | DocScrutinizer | uboot doesn't even touch NOLO |
| 20:39.46 | mase76 | ok, maybe the kernel will be enough. |
| 20:40.16 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: Yes,i have uboot :) |
| 20:40.23 | DocScrutinizer | I explained to epic length here uboot comes with kernel (as both live in same NAND partition) |
| 20:40.36 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: my english is too bad,so i did explain wrongly,sorry! |
| 20:40.54 | mase76 | then if uboot-power does not boot, a "run noloboot" could boot maemo normally? |
| 20:40.59 | ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, so when you start, before it says "booting kernel", you type in "run noloboot"? |
| 20:41.01 | DocScrutinizer | and NOLO will boot uboot as it normally would boot the kernel - that's called chainloading |
| 20:41.33 | DocScrutinizer | mase76: yes |
| 20:41.42 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: yes |
| 20:41.58 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: for 5~10 secounds it charges (flashing led) |
| 20:42.08 | ShadowJK | I don't know about uboot-power, if it's at all working or if it has ever worked, but I do know that with the normal kernel, and normal uboot-pr13, the default is to boot meego from MicroSD, and if you interrupt by pressing any key, and then type in "run noloboot", it boots the regular maemo kernel and boots maemo from nand normally |
| 20:42.11 | angelox|laptop | but stills at "Starting kernel" |
| 20:42.43 | rly | How can I see my ip address? |
| 20:42.56 | DocScrutinizer | ifconfig |
| 20:43.05 | rly | That is not installed by default. |
| 20:43.14 | ShadowJK | /sbin/ifconfig |
| 20:43.28 | DocScrutinizer | it is |
| 20:43.53 | DocScrutinizer | you're just not root by default |
| 20:44.06 | rly | Ok |
| 20:44.24 | rly | Why don't they just distribute the phone with everything installed? ;) |
| 20:44.26 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: without charger now,it opened uboot,i did "run noloboot" and it flashed led (Without charger) |
| 20:44.38 | mase76 | no, "run noloboot" makes the phone turn off after some seconds. |
| 20:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | and you still won't find it if you use sudo gainroot as this doesn't set up path correctly |
| 20:45.00 | ShadowJK | mase76, for me it boots maemo :P |
| 20:45.04 | angelox|laptop | me too |
| 20:45.13 | angelox|laptop | well |
| 20:45.16 | angelox|laptop | it was booting :) |
| 20:45.30 | ShadowJK | I dont think Iv'e heard of red led before.. :/ |
| 20:45.41 | DocScrutinizer | broken battery |
| 20:45.42 | angelox|laptop | yes,i said you red led |
| 20:45.45 | mase76 | i have pk also in nand. |
| 20:45.53 | angelox|laptop | but it dissapears (fortunately) |
| 20:46.10 | angelox|laptop | (sorry,i don't know how to say Disappears in the past) :( |
| 20:46.14 | *** join/#maemo antman8969 (~anthony@pool-98-113-198-248.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:46.22 | ShadowJK | disappeared :) |
| 20:46.50 | angelox|laptop | thanks :) |
| 20:47.01 | angelox|laptop | so my battery isn't broken :) |
| 20:47.08 | ShadowJK | is it charging now? |
| 20:47.28 | angelox|laptop | no |
| 20:47.42 | angelox|laptop | it takes about 3~4 minutes at the yellow solid led |
| 20:47.47 | angelox|laptop | so it boot uboot |
| 20:47.56 | angelox|laptop | s/so/then/ |
| 20:48.14 | mase76 | reflashing kernel only makes the device boot again into maemo (stock). |
| 20:48.26 | angelox|laptop | that's what i want |
| 20:48.30 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: might be related to runlevel. It might try to boot to normal system runlevel rather than act_dead, and in that runlevel it decides battery is way too low and switches system down |
| 20:48.37 | angelox|laptop | but i can't flash |
| 20:49.08 | angelox|laptop | the phone powers on automatically into the uboot |
| 20:49.17 | angelox|laptop | even pressing U key |
| 20:49.21 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: your battery is massively depleted, you can't flash that way |
| 20:49.30 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:49.33 | ShadowJK | Yeah need to charge first |
| 20:49.48 | DocScrutinizer | ~flatbatrecover |
| 20:49.48 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 20:50.22 | DocScrutinizer | this applies for 'normal' systems though, not for uboot systems |
| 20:50.28 | angelox|laptop | hmm |
| 20:50.29 | angelox|laptop | bad |
| 20:50.41 | DocScrutinizer | the steady amber still signals it's entering emergency charge mode initially |
| 20:50.47 | angelox|laptop | can i plug a charger directly into the battery? |
| 20:50.52 | angelox|laptop | like,cutting the wires.. |
| 20:50.58 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 20:51.04 | ShadowJK | I think it goes solid yellow -> uboot -> type in "run noloboot" -> it goes to screen off, blinking/glowing yellow, and then at some time it reboots, and you need to catch it and type in "run noloboot" again. Or then it stays black and just charges, I forget what it does |
| 20:51.49 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: Exactly! |
| 20:51.52 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, you need to catch the moment when uBoot boots up |
| 20:52.05 | DocScrutinizer | and stop booting by pressing a key |
| 20:52.15 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:52.19 | angelox|laptop | i'm going to charge the wires way |
| 20:52.31 | angelox|laptop | seems to work |
| 20:52.35 | DocScrutinizer | then enter tha magic "run noloboot" or whatever, and hope for maemo taking care about charging |
| 20:52.36 | *** join/#maemo claw (~claw@109.73.51.163) |
| 20:52.36 | angelox|laptop | *i hope* |
| 20:52.49 | ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, what kind of power source would you use for the wires way? |
| 20:52.50 | angelox|laptop | so,no problems charging the wires way? |
| 20:52.59 | angelox|laptop | a phone charger ShadowJK |
| 20:53.05 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: take extreme care to limit both current and voltage apropriately! |
| 20:53.30 | ShadowJK | What kind of specs on the "charger"? |
| 20:53.36 | angelox|laptop | hmm limit current is quite complicated,since my eletronic components aren't with me no more |
| 20:53.43 | angelox|laptop | one secound shadowjk |
| 20:53.54 | DocScrutinizer | old Nokia chargers with a written 850mA 4.8V or sth are OK |
| 20:54.10 | DocScrutinizer | they actually limit current |
| 20:54.11 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N950 (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 20:54.25 | ShadowJK | the CA-146C adapter would also be excellent |
| 20:54.50 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, except it's hard to connect it directly to the battery |
| 20:55.01 | ShadowJK | yeah :P |
| 20:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | an old Nokia wallwart charger with 3.5mm barrel connector is really best for this type of charging hazard |
| 20:55.41 | rly | How does the FM radio work? |
| 20:55.49 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 20:55.57 | rly | I selected the frequency, but I only get noise. |
| 20:55.57 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: 5,0V --- 550mA |
| 20:56.04 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia? |
| 20:56.11 | angelox|laptop | Motorola |
| 20:56.16 | DocScrutinizer | USB, meh |
| 20:56.23 | angelox|laptop | yes.. |
| 20:56.28 | DocScrutinizer | forget it |
| 20:56.33 | angelox|laptop | why? |
| 20:56.38 | ShadowJK | do you have a digital multimeter? |
| 20:56.42 | angelox|laptop | the wires are separated |
| 20:56.43 | angelox|laptop | yes |
| 20:56.46 | DocScrutinizer | probably will have a foldback protective characteristic |
| 20:57.19 | angelox|laptop | hmm |
| 20:57.21 | angelox|laptop | i see... |
| 20:57.27 | ShadowJK | dunno, usb charging spec says it has to reduce voltage in response to overload |
| 20:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | means when you connect the battery it draws way too much current and that makes some "fuse" trip and no more current at all will flow |
| 20:57.32 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (~hannes@178-190-11-219.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:57.59 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sure? then might work |
| 20:58.09 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: the flatbatrecover way,there's any chance to work with u-boot? (please say yes) |
| 20:58.25 | DocScrutinizer | at least it's ""safe" for a few minutes :-D |
| 20:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: sure |
| 20:59.03 | ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, so ideally, you are aiming for 4.2V and <= 900mA. Absolute maximum is something like 4.3V and 1.3A (this will do harm to the battery, but hopefully not too much). |
| 20:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you just need to wait to the moment where steady amber goes off and uboot menu appears |
| 20:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | maybe amber goes off even several seconds *after* the moment where you have to press a key |
| 20:59.57 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: and then? |
| 21:00.00 | ShadowJK | 5V is more than 4.2, but at 500mA it would take 30-60 minutes before battery voltage reached 4.2V |
| 21:00.43 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you could just plug in then press some key every second and eventually look at screen to find uBoot menu with rubbish chars you need to delete prior to typing the noloboot |
| 21:00.58 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 21:01.23 | DocScrutinizer | make sure you see screen even if backlight might be off! |
| 21:01.36 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. get good illumination |
| 21:01.40 | angelox|laptop | wow,only now i did see Nokia's Charger is 1200mA! |
| 21:01.48 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: Yep |
| 21:01.58 | ShadowJK | N900 does not use all of 1200mA from charger |
| 21:02.00 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: yes, it is |
| 21:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | and no it doesn't use all 1200 |
| 21:02.33 | angelox|laptop | i see now why it charges so fastly |
| 21:02.48 | DocScrutinizer | 3.5h+ is fast? |
| 21:02.53 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 21:03.05 | angelox|laptop | for me,came from chargers that toke 5+ yes |
| 21:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | ok then :-D |
| 21:03.28 | *** join/#maemo T7g (~t7g@d47-69-170-114.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 21:03.33 | angelox|laptop | :) |
| 21:03.37 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, more like 2 hours with a fresh battery. Phantom resistance and internal resistance of old batteries makes it more like 4h, yeah :P |
| 21:04.00 | DocScrutinizer | actually it's not charging with more than 800mA *at 3.8V* any time |
| 21:05.05 | DocScrutinizer | which was more like 700mA used for charging from 5V |
| 21:05.14 | DocScrutinizer | plus some system powering overhead |
| 21:05.27 | angelox|laptop | one last question :-D |
| 21:05.35 | DocScrutinizer | ask just ask |
| 21:05.56 | angelox|laptop | if i let uboot time out,it also 'boots' maemo and charges that 5~10 secs |
| 21:06.04 | angelox|laptop | so,why need i do "run noloboot"? |
| 21:06.26 | ShadowJK | I wonder if there is some other problem too. What happens after 5-10 secs? |
| 21:06.36 | angelox|laptop | it reboots |
| 21:06.48 | ShadowJK | :( |
| 21:06.54 | angelox|laptop | yes :( |
| 21:07.04 | angelox|laptop | but at least,on these 5-10 secs it charges a bit :) |
| 21:07.04 | DocScrutinizer | I don't think it boots maemo? |
| 21:07.24 | angelox|laptop | yes,ops sorry,it boots maemo's kernel |
| 21:07.28 | DocScrutinizer | isn't it more like it tries to boot meego? |
| 21:07.44 | ShadowJK | It might fall back to noloboot if no MicroSD is inserted, I guess |
| 21:07.52 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 21:07.54 | angelox|laptop | no,because i'm without any uSD |
| 21:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 21:09.11 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: now if you had installed backupmenu, you'd get a reliable simple charging with just sliding open kbd before maemo boots up :-D |
| 21:09.29 | *** join/#maemo real-dev (~dev@itc-scholz.de) |
| 21:09.40 | angelox|laptop | :( |
| 21:09.46 | angelox|laptop | no one told me to install it |
| 21:10.04 | rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, FM also works. |
| 21:10.21 | DocScrutinizer | rly: we all know it usually works, yes |
| 21:10.24 | ShadowJK | transmitter or receiver? :) |
| 21:10.27 | rly | Except, it seems that I cannot play without a headphone plugged in. |
| 21:10.38 | rly | Also, the earplugs don't exactly fit. |
| 21:10.42 | DocScrutinizer | rly: it needs hp for antenna |
| 21:10.51 | rly | I suppose everyone buys custom ones? |
| 21:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 21:11.14 | rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, so it is not just my head ;) |
| 21:11.50 | rly | DocScrutinizer: is that also the reason that the shape it not a computer compatible headphone? |
| 21:11.53 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: If maemo reboots after 10s that's actually too bad |
| 21:12.08 | rly | DocScrutinizer: (to get actual reception from the headphone connection) |
| 21:12.11 | *** join/#maemo perlite_ (~perlite@111-240-171-137.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 21:12.30 | DocScrutinizer | rly: no |
| 21:12.41 | rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, then what is the reason? |
| 21:12.44 | DocScrutinizer | rly: any hp cable will do |
| 21:12.48 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 21:13.06 | DocScrutinizer | what's the shape thing anyway |
| 21:13.06 | rly | Cool, it fits :) |
| 21:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 21:13.16 | *** part/#maemo peterbjornxz (~peterbosc@D97B8FC5.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 21:13.55 | DocScrutinizer | N900 AV is compatible to generic stereo "walkman" headphone "standard" |
| 21:14.08 | *** join/#maemo peterbjornxz (~peterbosc@D97B8FC5.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 21:14.12 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: Why? |
| 21:14.38 | DocScrutinizer | because that means there's no proper way to recover from that situation |
| 21:15.03 | ShadowJK | angelox|laptop, what happened to your electronics stuff? |
| 21:15.06 | angelox|laptop | and if i flash stock kernel? |
| 21:15.29 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you could try to set R&D mode and disable wd_timers, that *might* fix the reboot-after-10s |
| 21:15.43 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: I've only 3~4 resistors :) |
| 21:15.45 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: thought you can't flash? |
| 21:16.02 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: no,i can't |
| 21:16.18 | DocScrutinizer | though you still might be able to set R&D via flasher |
| 21:16.24 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: the thing is,when i plug usb cable with flasher-3.5 running,it automatically boots uboot |
| 21:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | yes, expected |
| 21:17.23 | DocScrutinizer | try coldflash parameter set, plus enable-r&d, plus no-*wd |
| 21:17.24 | *** part/#maemo peterbjornxz (~peterbosc@D97B8FC5.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 21:17.42 | angelox|laptop | but only flashing kernel? |
| 21:17.46 | DocScrutinizer | coldflash kicks in before NOLO even starts to decide it won't obey 'U' |
| 21:17.52 | angelox|laptop | how should be the command? |
| 21:18.13 | DocScrutinizer | flashing kernel won't even work in coldflash mode on a flat battery I think |
| 21:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | sorry I got no flasher --help handy atm |
| 21:18.46 | DocScrutinizer | and I'm also away now for some RL |
| 21:18.57 | angelox|laptop | btw,sorry all these questions,i'm kind of desperate :-) |
| 21:19.03 | DocScrutinizer | np |
| 21:19.05 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: ok,let me try |
| 21:19.51 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: see ~flashing ->coldflash, eliminate the pointers to image file and add the enable r&d instead |
| 21:20.37 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 21:20.38 | rly | If I understood correctly, you can also flash only your kernel and keep your installed applications, correct? |
| 21:20.57 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah (~Dibblah@mauve.plus.com) |
| 21:21.14 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 21:21.43 | DocScrutinizer | but you need to take care of the modules, and those live on / |
| 21:22.04 | DocScrutinizer | with modules not matching new kernel you'll get a bootloop |
| 21:23.12 | DocScrutinizer | if you got alternative directory trees for different kernels' modules on /, you can change kernels without any problems |
| 21:23.25 | DocScrutinizer | aiui |
| 21:24.16 | rly | How am I supposed to know which modules I need and where I get these bits? |
| 21:24.29 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-161-237.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 21:25.40 | DocScrutinizer | modules are installed via a >kernelname>-modules.deb pkg iirc. You'll find them in /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/ or more generically in /lib/modules/<kernelname_as_of_uname> |
| 21:25.59 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: i couldn't do yet,if i give you flasher-3.5 --help |
| 21:26.03 | angelox|laptop | * could you help me? |
| 21:28.18 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: see http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode for the parts regarding R&D and watchdog disabling |
| 21:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | see if that still works |
| 21:28.32 | DocScrutinizer | with flat battery |
| 21:29.26 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 21:29.49 | Atarii | FYI wget is not installed by default |
| 21:29.51 | DocScrutinizer | no-lifeguard-reset no-omap-wd no-ext-wd |
| 21:30.22 | DocScrutinizer | Atarii: well maybe, but gets installed by one of the pkgs almost everybody installs anyway |
| 21:30.30 | angelox|laptop | wow |
| 21:30.37 | angelox|laptop | almost booted up |
| 21:30.48 | angelox|laptop | i think i did discover how to do the thing |
| 21:31.53 | DocScrutinizer | --enable-rd-mode --- try that if it works at all |
| 21:31.53 | angelox|laptop | almost booted up = "I did saw the balls circling(not sure if circling is the correct word)" |
| 21:32.06 | angelox|laptop | to flash kernel? |
| 21:32.09 | DocScrutinizer | bouncing? :-D |
| 21:32.22 | angelox|laptop | yess :-) |
| 21:32.30 | angelox|laptop | need learn actions in English :-) |
| 21:34.09 | DocScrutinizer | then if this doesn't work you could still try to add the coldflash parameters to the --enable-rd-mode |
| 21:34.22 | DocScrutinizer | ~flashing |
| 21:34.23 | infobot | methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 21:34.34 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 21:34.38 | angelox|laptop | let me do my magic first :) |
| 21:35.42 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 21:36.52 | DocScrutinizer | flasher-3.5 -c -h RX-51:<hw_id> -F <FIASCO image> --enable-rd-mode |
| 21:37.22 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5 |
| 21:39.11 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: what's your maemo kernel and what's your (rootfs) system? |
| 21:39.39 | angelox|laptop | maemo kernel? i don't know,i'm using uboot |
| 21:39.40 | angelox|laptop | well |
| 21:39.51 | DocScrutinizer | uboot with stock kenel? |
| 21:40.16 | angelox|laptop | yes |
| 21:40.19 | angelox|laptop | ops |
| 21:40.32 | antman8969 | uname -a |
| 21:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | and system? |
| 21:40.40 | angelox|laptop | i guess it's stock |
| 21:40.42 | angelox|laptop | wget http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/kernel_2.6.28-20103103+0m5_armel.deb |
| 21:40.45 | angelox|laptop | take from there :) |
| 21:40.55 | DocScrutinizer | antman8969: nice, but how to do that when system doesn't boot up? |
| 21:41.08 | antman8969 | oh lol, just came in... |
| 21:41.15 | antman8969 | a better question might be, did he ever download powerkernel |
| 21:41.18 | antman8969 | if not, probably stock |
| 21:41.22 | angelox|laptop | yes stock |
| 21:41.29 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: hw_id? |
| 21:42.07 | DocScrutinizer | >>The code "RX-51" used in the example is the product code for the N900 device. The <hw_id> is the product HW revision, which is a 4-digit code. Both product code and HW revision can be found from the type label of the device to be flashed. The type label is on the back of the device, underneath the battery.<< |
| 21:43.11 | angelox|laptop | there's a lot of info... |
| 21:43.14 | antman8969 | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php |
| 21:43.16 | antman8969 | this ? |
| 21:43.57 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: though now we're leaving the domain where I can realy help any more, beetr try to ask jacekowski about coldflashing and related stuff |
| 21:44.11 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@187.113.117.150) |
| 21:44.12 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@unaffiliated/licensed) |
| 21:44.21 | DocScrutinizer | 2101 or sth like that |
| 21:44.41 | DocScrutinizer | 2100, 2000, 2010... |
| 21:44.49 | angelox|laptop | only numbers? |
| 21:44.50 | DocScrutinizer | some 4digit stuff |
| 21:44.54 | DocScrutinizer | yoh |
| 21:44.59 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 21:45.11 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 21:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | good luck :-D |
| 21:45.20 | angelox|laptop | 0434 maybe? |
| 21:45.21 | angelox|laptop | thanks :) |
| 21:46.59 | DocScrutinizer | unpacking or listing a fiasco image will show all the valid hw codes |
| 21:47.10 | DocScrutinizer | don't think 0434 been one of them |
| 21:47.24 | angelox|laptop | i see.. |
| 21:47.25 | angelox|laptop | there's no other code |
| 21:47.48 | angelox|laptop | :*( |
| 21:49.06 | angelox|laptop | and if i don't input any hw code? |
| 21:49.48 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@85-238-121-42.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) |
| 21:50.06 | DocScrutinizer | k fsckng hw-id is NOT on the label |
| 21:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | try 2100 |
| 21:50.19 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 21:50.59 | angelox|laptop | "You have to supply the 2nd image" |
| 21:51.06 | angelox|laptop | since i've extracted,i'll suply |
| 21:51.46 | angelox|laptop | i'll try 2101 |
| 21:52.14 | angelox|laptop | since there's that at 2nd image,and in a Brazillian website |
| 21:54.44 | *** join/#maemo cpscotti (~cpscotti@189.34.59.247) |
| 21:57.39 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# softupd -v --local& |
| 21:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | [1] 4626 |
| 21:57.42 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# flasher --local -i |
| 21:57.43 | DocScrutinizer | flasher v2.8.2 (Jan 8 2010) |
| 21:57.45 | DocScrutinizer | Using flashing protocol Mk II. |
| 21:57.46 | DocScrutinizer | Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101 |
| 21:58.13 | *** join/#maemo thomastp (~thomas@78-21-10-101.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:58.39 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 22:01.26 | DocScrutinizer | one last thing: you of course *could* create a meego uSD with a file in /etc/events.d or /etc/init.d that calls ShadowJK 's charger script (you'd have to add the needed tools as well, namely i2ctools) |
| 22:01.35 | *** join/#maemo NGNUton-BC (~gnuton@84-231-72-46.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 22:01.55 | DocScrutinizer | this should just start charging happily when invoked by uBoot |
| 22:02.37 | DocScrutinizer | (just like backupmenu would, if it was installed in maemo) |
| 22:02.53 | angelox|laptop | and where can i download that script? |
| 22:03.04 | DocScrutinizer | hah simple |
| 22:03.37 | DocScrutinizer | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/ |
| 22:03.56 | DocScrutinizer | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge.sh.txt |
| 22:04.47 | DocScrutinizer | make sure you adapt the pathnames in there to point to the location where you placed i2cget/set on that meego image |
| 22:04.54 | angelox|laptop | booted |
| 22:05.05 | angelox|laptop | well..more or less |
| 22:05.15 | angelox|laptop | :-) |
| 22:05.16 | angelox|laptop | backlight worked |
| 22:05.21 | angelox|laptop | and power on button too |
| 22:05.32 | *** join/#maemo Shapeshifter (~Shapeshif@unaffiliated/shapeshifter) |
| 22:05.44 | Shapeshifter | boo throttling |
| 22:05.45 | DocScrutinizer | damn, are you actually using a Nokia wallcharger to power the device?? |
| 22:07.08 | DocScrutinizer | I don't think recovery from deep discharge will work with random PC or alien chargers |
| 22:07.40 | ShadowJK | meegocharge.tar or something, iirc |
| 22:08.34 | angelox|laptop | what's alien charger? |
| 22:08.52 | ShadowJK | not nokia |
| 22:09.07 | Shapeshifter | angelox|laptop: the thing they used in indipendence day to upload a virus to the mothership. |
| 22:09.19 | Shapeshifter | s/dip/dep |
| 22:09.50 | angelox|laptop | wow |
| 22:09.52 | nox- | haha |
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| 22:11.05 | angelox|laptop | i didn't undestand,due my bad English i guess :( |
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| 22:33.26 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutnizer: Actually,what should i really do,if i can flash normally,flash kernel? |
| 22:34.47 | angelox|laptop | maybe flash kernel to charge finely |
| 22:39.10 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: yes, flash same kernel you got now, but without uBoot. But then OTOH if device charged then there's nothing wrong with your system |
| 22:39.32 | angelox|laptop | OTOH? |
| 22:39.53 | DocScrutinizer | and if it wouldn't charge noramlly, you weren't able to reach a state where you can flash kernel |
| 22:39.58 | DocScrutinizer | ~otoh |
| 22:39.58 | infobot | it has been said that otoh is On The Other Hand. It's YAFA. |
| 22:40.24 | DocScrutinizer | ~yafa |
| 22:40.24 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, yafa is Yet Another Freakin Acronym. |
| 22:40.31 | angelox|laptop | ah ok,thanks |
| 22:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | I don't understand why your system reboots all the time after 10s |
| 22:41.17 | DocScrutinizer | unless you used a nonstandard charger |
| 22:42.02 | DocScrutinizer | your battery could actually be damaged, assuming it's been you who claimed there's been red indicator light |
| 22:43.17 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:43.28 | DocScrutinizer | this could delay start of charging significantly, so the battery discharges to a point where device shuts down. This happens prior to actual charging even kicking in, due to the delay caused by defect cell |
| 22:43.41 | DocScrutinizer | is one of my ideas what's going on |
| 22:44.08 | angelox|laptop | i see... |
| 22:44.18 | angelox|laptop | but there's no more red light |
| 22:44.28 | DocScrutinizer | but there's been, no? |
| 22:44.38 | angelox|laptop | yes,once |
| 22:44.50 | DocScrutinizer | it's a concerning signal |
| 22:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | this red warning light doesn't show up just for fun, or triggered by a random generator. There's been sth severely odd to cause it light up |
| 22:46.26 | Shapeshifter | is smokku ever on here? |
| 22:46.38 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen smokku |
| 22:46.43 | infobot | i haven't seen 'smokku', DocScrutinizer |
| 22:46.43 | Shapeshifter | ah wait cordia has a chan on its own |
| 22:46.56 | Shapeshifter | goes asking alis |
| 22:47.03 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutnizer: But i don't know what that did happen :( |
| 22:47.19 | DocScrutinizer | s/whyt/why/? |
| 22:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | what* |
| 22:47.42 | angelox|laptop | why* |
| 22:47.43 | angelox|laptop | because |
| 22:47.46 | angelox|laptop | it was working |
| 22:47.46 | angelox|laptop | :( |
| 22:47.57 | DocScrutinizer | because battery discharged deep? |
| 22:48.06 | angelox|laptop | ys |
| 22:48.08 | angelox|laptop | yes* |
| 22:48.36 | wmarone | GAN900: you there? |
| 22:48.52 | DocScrutinizer | LiIon really hates getting discharged deep. Even more they hate staying in discharged state for prolonged period of time |
| 22:49.12 | cehteh | pussies |
| 22:49.21 | cehteh | they dont like being overcharged either |
| 22:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 22:49.40 | DocScrutinizer | can stand this better though than deep discharge |
| 22:49.58 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutnizer: and if i take another battery (not from N900) only to flash n900? |
| 22:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | should work, but won't fix a single problem |
| 22:50.45 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 22:50.51 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF49A9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above I don't see how's your system broken in any way. Doesn't need flashing then |
| 22:50.55 | angelox|laptop | atm,i would try everything :( |
| 22:51.08 | angelox|laptop | i'd only like to flash Maemo |
| 22:51.32 | DocScrutinizer | you *got* a working maemo system, no? |
| 22:51.38 | angelox|laptop | to do ~flatbatrecover |
| 22:51.44 | angelox|laptop | when? |
| 22:51.54 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-078-042-037-221.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
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| 22:52.23 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~gecko@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 22:52.32 | DocScrutinizer | well, there's a bit of a nuisance with uBoot and flatbatrecover, but nothing serious as far as I can tell right now |
| 22:53.16 | DocScrutinizer | you said you almost booted your maemo system? Then reflashing it won't change that behaviour I'd say |
| 22:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: I seriously suggest you do yourself a favour and buy a gift for you: a spare battery so you can swap :-D |
| 22:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | you can get cheap batteries for sth like 8$ that work not that bad at all |
| 22:55.33 | angelox|laptop | ok :-) if i find one to n900 |
| 22:55.40 | angelox|laptop | but..if i buy a table charger? |
| 22:55.45 | DocScrutinizer | then if you have same problems with that new battery, you may consider reflashing, or better try investigating what's wrong with charging in maemo, or why it reboots at all |
| 22:57.34 | DocScrutinizer | but for now I tend to blame your battery to be broken to a point where it becomes hard to skip over the charging gap between flatbatrecover (steady amber) and the point in time of booting maemo where bme kicks in and continues with decent charging |
| 22:58.54 | DocScrutinizer | as mentioned before you might want to install backupmenu of robbiethe1st, which has shadowjk's charging script and gets started very early in maemo bootup process if the kbd is open |
| 22:59.21 | angelox|laptop | there's someway to install with device powered off? :-) |
| 22:59.50 | DocScrutinizer | so the charging gap time becomes really really short, and also the charging script is a bit brute force compared to bme and thus starts charging way quicker by itself |
| 23:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | no, there's no way to install that to maemo proper |
| 23:00.38 | DocScrutinizer | but you could do a similar thing for meego on uSD, as mentioned above |
| 23:01.01 | angelox|laptop | yes,i'm downloading a image |
| 23:01.23 | DocScrutinizer | but honestly this is not really a software problem, it somehow feels like broken hardware |
| 23:01.57 | angelox|laptop | :( |
| 23:02.00 | DocScrutinizer | which only partially could get fixed by special sw hacks to counteract the rot cause which probably is a broken battery cell |
| 23:02.20 | DocScrutinizer | s/rot/root/ |
| 23:05.08 | angelox|laptop | i don't like my N900 no more |
| 23:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | as I understand it there is a protection circuit in Nokia batteries that "cuts the wire" when battery gets discharged too deeply, but that circuit is configured to prevent battery fire and explosion that could result from deep discharge. It's not built to keep battery intact and sane regarding normal function as a power source |
| 23:07.17 | DocScrutinizer | if you *smehow* managed to keep N900 sucking power from battery despite the voltage dropped to 3.3V, then eventually this circuit would kick in and cause the battery to expose 0.0V on the terminals. This can cause bme and/or NOLO to detect a battery with no voltage and shine up the red error signal |
| 23:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | N900 sucking battery power beyond sane limits might get caused by hard shutdown, when some autonomous subsystems still stay on as main processor had no time to tell them to shutdown |
| 23:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | it also may get caused by somebody/sth frequently trying to boot system despite battery is empty. E.G you have the device in your pocket and while walking the power button gets pressed for each step you do |
| 23:11.30 | DocScrutinizer | but there are also batteries that were simply defective from beginning and just break down after a few dozen charging cycles |
| 23:11.37 | GeneralAntilles | wmarone, pong. |
| 23:12.23 | ShadowJK | why did you install uboot? |
| 23:12.56 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: so again: do your self a favour - buy yourself a gift (maybe for your last or your next birthday, or just for celebrating next sunday) get a spare battery |
| 23:12.57 | angelox|laptop | my battery is showing 3.0V |
| 23:13.09 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 23:14.20 | DocScrutinizer | nothing to blame N900 for - yet |
| 23:15.00 | DocScrutinizer | and you'll have more fun if you continue to like it ;-D |
| 23:15.38 | DocScrutinizer | also nothing really wrong with uBoot as far as I can tell for now |
| 23:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | only issue with uBoot: it extends the "charging gap" on boot |
| 23:16.34 | DocScrutinizer | obviously |
| 23:17.16 | ShadowJK | The gap is about 60-90 seconds with my bad battery and meego |
| 23:17.47 | DocScrutinizer | we asked jacekowski before if he culd maybe patch NOLO to charge a bit more in hw-based emergency recover charge mode, before NOLO decides to bot up to system |
| 23:17.54 | *** join/#maemo thomastp (~thomas@78-22-131-223.access.telenet.be) |
| 23:18.04 | ShadowJK | but meego has no "battery too low: shutdown" logic on boot with low batt |
| 23:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: just it seems we booted maemo here, not meego |
| 23:18.51 | ShadowJK | yeah :P |
| 23:19.41 | DocScrutinizer | and the too low "hysteresis" between NOLO's boot-up threshold and system's shut-down threshold has been mentioned and blamed by speedevil before |
| 23:20.17 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 23:21.15 | DocScrutinizer | if jacekowski was able to use his super-RE-powers to patch a single byte in NOLO to rise the bootip-threshold from some 3.3V to maybe 3.5V this was a really great fix for issues like this one |
| 23:21.19 | ShadowJK | can also recover from 2.8V through amber - uboot - run noloboot - maemo:act_dead (or nolo again?) - run noloboot |
| 23:22.02 | ShadowJK | with the bad batt, that has that ludicrous 1.6ohm ir at 2.8V |
| 23:22.42 | ShadowJK | so it should have smallest margin |
| 23:23.06 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: depending on effective capacity of cell and duration of charging gap, there's always a limit where system will shutdown rather than boot up and charge |
| 23:24.26 | DocScrutinizer | where "effective capacity" here means the capacity available from (dunno) 3.37V down to 3.30V |
| 23:24.37 | DocScrutinizer | or whatever the both thresholds may be |
| 23:25.26 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@189.115.170.7) |
| 23:25.27 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@unaffiliated/licensed) |
| 23:25.33 | DocScrutinizer | also related to Z for the one is threshold during charging while the other is threshold during massive discharge |
| 23:26.11 | angelox|laptop | yes...is my battery :( |
| 23:26.21 | ShadowJK | hm? |
| 23:26.26 | angelox|laptop | another bat from other device it powers on :( |
| 23:26.41 | ShadowJK | you had another battery? |
| 23:27.23 | DocScrutinizer | basically it boils down to: if a battery that reaches 3.37V @ 700mA charging isn't capable of delivering 1A for 180s without dropping below 3.30V, you got a problem |
| 23:27.58 | DocScrutinizer | (numbers a bogus random ^^^^) |
| 23:28.10 | ShadowJK | so that's 0.07 / 1.7.. ah nm :P |
| 23:28.42 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK,no,i got from other phone,a Motorola One |
| 23:29.13 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: red light always means "GET NEW BATTERY!" |
| 23:29.39 | angelox|laptop | i shouldn't know that :( |
| 23:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | unless it's the front-cam-active indicator :-D |
| 23:29.50 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@pdpc/supporter/student/celesteh) |
| 23:30.16 | *** join/#maemo NGNUton-BC (~gnuton@85-156-159-93.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 23:30.47 | angelox|laptop | why did someone programmed that red light? |
| 23:30.49 | angelox|laptop | :( |
| 23:31.09 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you could try hotswap to try and charge your presumably defect battery |
| 23:31.32 | angelox|laptop | it's what i'm trying right now :) |
| 23:31.48 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't work without some tricks |
| 23:31.58 | DocScrutinizer | you know how to hotswap? |
| 23:32.14 | angelox|laptop | i'm connecting two batteries |
| 23:32.25 | angelox|laptop | the N900 itself,and one charged |
| 23:32.26 | ShadowJK | that's kinda dangerous |
| 23:32.31 | angelox|laptop | in parallel |
| 23:32.32 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net) |
| 23:32.48 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: DO NOT DO THIS!!!!! |
| 23:32.58 | ShadowJK | or rather, very dangerous without current limiting |
| 23:33.12 | DocScrutinizer | it will FOR SURE kill one of both batteries |
| 23:33.24 | angelox|laptop | how should i do so? |
| 23:33.26 | DocScrutinizer | probably both |
| 23:34.40 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: please refer to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57734 |
| 23:35.37 | DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: obviously you will change a full battery against an empty one though |
| 23:35.43 | ShadowJK | you'd need something like 2 ohm resistance between full and empty battery, or they kill eachother or explode |
| 23:36.28 | DocScrutinizer | and when ShadowJK says "explode" he means BOOOOOM |
| 23:36.41 | angelox|laptop | i've no way to power on my n900 with other battery,no one fits |
| 23:36.46 | angelox|laptop | hahaha |
| 23:36.57 | angelox|laptop | i'll do this: |
| 23:37.16 | angelox|laptop | Get a table charger |
| 23:37.16 | DocScrutinizer | didn't you just say your N900 booted up properly with a motorola battery? |
| 23:37.33 | angelox|laptop | yes,but both connected parallel |
| 23:37.39 | angelox|laptop | then you said: |
| 23:37.39 | angelox|laptop | <DocScrutinizer> angelox|laptop: DO NOT DO THIS!!!!! |
| 23:37.46 | angelox|laptop | and i'll not do that |
| 23:37.47 | angelox|laptop | :) |
| 23:37.50 | DocScrutinizer | dang, get a working battery. Yours is broken. Period |
| 23:38.10 | ShadowJK | did it stay on whn you removed motorola battery and left nokia battery connected? |
| 23:38.26 | DocScrutinizer | oh fine, so you actually already killed the poor battery even more |
| 23:38.36 | angelox|laptop | ShadowJK: yes |
| 23:38.47 | ShadowJK | quick, connect charger then ;) |
| 23:39.00 | angelox|laptop | a bit of time,before i turn off |
| 23:39.03 | DocScrutinizer | sighs and returns back to his tedious RL duties |
| 23:39.27 | angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: That was for ~5 secounds |
| 23:39.33 | angelox|laptop | i didn't even booted Maemo |
| 23:39.42 | angelox|laptop | i was only trying to flash Kernel |
| 23:39.51 | angelox|laptop | so,i didn't kill my baterry yet :) |
| 23:40.02 | *** join/#maemo Evanescence (~chris@122.237.23.243) |
| 23:40.14 | ShadowJK | even 0.1 second of that can kill or damage both batteries |
| 23:40.47 | angelox|laptop | but why could damage? |
| 23:40.52 | angelox|laptop | i can't understand |
| 23:40.57 | angelox|laptop | they're plugged in parallel |
| 23:41.29 | angelox|laptop | can you explain? |
| 23:41.31 | angelox|laptop | :) |
| 23:41.43 | ShadowJK | Because the full motorola battery will send ALOT of current to the empty battery. About 4 Ampere. |
| 23:42.02 | ShadowJK | These batteries are not built to handle 4 ampere current. |
| 23:42.36 | angelox|laptop | it wasn't full fortunately |
| 23:42.42 | angelox|laptop | kind of 30~40% |
| 23:43.11 | ShadowJK | If Li-Ion batteries are at same voltage, then you can parallell. |
| 23:43.27 | *** join/#maemo jylan (~jylan@222.14.70.115.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 23:46.44 | angelox|laptop | yes,they are |
| 23:46.56 | angelox|laptop | ops |
| 23:47.09 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 23:47.45 | ShadowJK | your nokia was at 3.0V, your motorola would probably be at 3.6 - 3.8. Not the same.. |
| 23:48.22 | angelox|laptop | i see... |
| 23:48.36 | angelox|laptop | but i hope there's a minimal chance of work |
| 23:48.52 | cehteh | there is a minimal chance for a nice firework |
| 23:49.25 | cehteh | unfortunally, in most cases it will just die silently :P |
| 23:49.32 | ShadowJK | this chance will increase with time after subjecting these batteries to this torture :) |
| 23:50.03 | angelox|laptop | ok. I need buy a battery |
| 23:50.23 | cehteh | buy 2 ... 1 to try, the other one to fry |
| 23:50.49 | angelox|laptop | where can i find at least one on Brazil? |
| 23:56.41 | DocScrutinizer | each second hand mobile phone shop I'd guess |
| 23:56.59 | DocScrutinizer | as well as Nokia shops, but those are |
| 23:57.06 | DocScrutinizer | **really* expensive |
| 23:58.21 | DocScrutinizer | dunno how's customs in brazil, if it's not as bad as in argentina, you may buy some battery on ebay or dealextreme or whatever |
