IRC log for #maemo on 20110809

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02:51.10Termanagood morning
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03:06.36fusijust got a random tweet
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03:06.40fusihttp://store.ovi.com/content/121065
03:06.53fusilooksnice
03:08.20dunelj_hmm, now I more focus on media play, svg-edit, boot debian 5 with touch support, and games.
03:09.04dunelj_None of those humble indie bundle game ported to N900, they even got PSP port :S
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04:27.19dunelj_N9 sale in one month. Maybe in 2 weeks.
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04:37.26antman8969I know poeple were complaining about where it was being released
04:37.40antman8969is there any reason I can just buy it form EU and ship it to US and use it?
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05:44.43ShapeshifterDoes someone here tether via PAN? For me it works every now and then but 9 out of 10 times I try to connect, my laptop can't get an IP address via dhcp; it times out. once it has an ip, it works very well. I tried two different scripts from tmo.
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06:46.16aslaniX-Fade: ping
06:47.50aslaniI got a message from logica, that they have some issues with datacenter, so maemo.org is down for awhile, sorry
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06:54.42aslaniok, they got it up. somehow managed to bork their disks again. :)
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09:52.19ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/09/qnx_blackberry/ <-- hmm
09:54.25jierowhat if apple acquire Nokia/？
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09:59.34andre__jiero: and what if $foo buys $bar?
10:00.36dm8tbrfoo and baz come into a bar, baz buys foo a drink...
10:00.37jieroandre__: no worry
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12:06.29crashanddieVerizon. Know anyone who works there?
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12:12.53peterbjornxhello
12:13.15peterbjornxdoes anyone here know where in the boot process X is launched
12:13.27peterbjornx(on the N900)
12:14.42peterbjornxi cannot find it and i have browsed every init script
12:14.50peterbjornxof runlevel 2
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12:15.20peterbjornxas all of a sudden, in S22-af-services it checks if X is running yet
12:15.39peterbjornxwhile i havent found any code that executes Xorg
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12:22.45Siceloi'm a layman peterbjornx. perhaps try to find hildon* in the scripts you mention :/
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12:22.53RST38hSomebody ban the idiot
12:24.33crashanddieRST38h, which one?
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12:25.45peterbjornxmayday_jay obv
12:25.57crashanddiewhy? What did he do?
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12:27.26crashanddieoh
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12:27.26crashanddieok
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12:29.02peterbjornx-> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen
12:29.02peterbjornx<- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood)
12:29.02peterbjornx-> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen
12:29.02peterbjornx<- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood)
12:29.02peterbjornx-> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen
12:29.03peterbjornx<- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood)
12:29.13peterbjornxo, well nevermind
12:29.17peterbjornxyou noticed already
12:29.43crashanddiewow, IRC in dutch is still as crappy as it used to ;)
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12:33.05peterbjornxyeah it is
12:33.09peterbjornxim using opera
12:33.55RST38hlcuk: fun in London lately?
12:34.43lcuknothing of last few days can be described as fun
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12:35.32RST38hlcuk: ok, I have skipped the quotation marks
12:35.57crashanddielcuk, joining in the "Clean Riot" thingie?
12:36.19lcukeverybody should
12:36.31RST38hlcuk: any expected consequences though? random strip searches? rectal CCTV installations?
12:37.17crashanddieRST38h, some people's lives got ruined.
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12:45.31RST38hcrash: that I have figured out from the videos
12:46.09RST38hcrash: the extent of the mayhem is not clear though, when watching it from afar
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12:48.17peterbjornxdoes anyone here know where in the boot process X is launched
12:48.55RST38h<PROTECTED>
12:50.00peterbjornxwhat rc.d file
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12:50.34peterbjornxi was viewing each script up to S22af-services which checks if X is running
12:52.14crashanddieRST38h, a few streets have been wrecked
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12:53.33peterbjornxbut , where is X/startx/xinit being started
13:06.33GAN900Oh, rioters.
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13:08.49RST38hbtw NOK fell below $5
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13:11.08keriogood job Flop
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13:13.23GAN900Woot
13:13.53TermanaRST38h, half the market probably fell below $5
13:13.56Termana:P
13:14.21nid0clearly a canadian ceo of a finnish company's solely responsible for the collapse of the entire american stock market
13:14.31RST38hTermana: Intel is holding, surprisingly
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13:21.34GAN900Hooray for idiots in Washington.
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13:23.48GAN900If anybody needs to be rioting it's the US.
13:24.07RST38hGAN: Won't happen, not right away anyway
13:24.14RST38hWhen it does, you will not like it, too
13:25.27lardmanthese guys aren't rioting because of austerity measures
13:25.44RST38hNobody is saying austerity measures are to blame
13:25.54lardmanand anyway you guys in the US have happily been spending your bonds to avoid too much pain thus far
13:26.07RST38hlardman: just wait =(
13:26.14lardmanRST38h: indeed
13:26.49GAN900lardman, hey, I didn't vote for them.
13:27.02lardmanGAN900: no worries, just the view of an outsider
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13:27.04RST38hlardman: this shit usually happens when you have got abundance of young males who do not have much to do and [most importantly] do not expect to have anything to do or make any change to anything
13:27.15RST38hlardman; So, they make change the only way they know
13:27.25GAN900When the bribe money for your constituents runs out the taxpayer isn't responsible for footing a bigger bill.
13:27.28lardmanRST38h: yeah, seems to be a small part of a generation who have no hopes
13:27.41TermanaRST38h, are you talking about the riots or the US economy now?
13:27.41GAN900Cut the entitlements, cut the military spending, cut the subsidies.
13:27.46RST38hlardman: whether it happens in UK or fucking Kyrgyzstan or Palestine is of no importance
13:28.03GAN900Cut the drug war, cut the TSA, privatize the FAA.
13:28.09lardmanGAN900: I don't know the specifics over here, but seems similar to the plans that are being implemented here
13:28.16lardmans/over here/over there
13:28.21RST38hAh, General, you will absolutely *love* Dan Simmons' "Flashback"
13:28.53GAN900lardman, the White House is pushing for socialism
13:29.05GAN900and the Senate is pushing for bribes for their voters.
13:29.17RST38hSorry, but this is no socialism
13:29.32radiofreeGAN900: oh let me guess, another I.T Libertarian?
13:29.42RST38hsometimes wishes Obama pushed for *real* socialism. That would be fun.
13:29.55lardmanObama is what a democrat?
13:30.03Termanalardman, yes
13:30.15lardmanand democrats are more left wing than republicans?
13:30.24RST38hStarting with tough price controls on medical services and enfing with nationalizing largest banks.
13:30.26radiofreedemocrats are to the left of republicans
13:30.39TermanaI am forced to stab my eyes every night watching Fox News because there is no interest Australian shows
13:30.40radiofreebut compared to european parties, they are farther to the right than most conservative parties!
13:30.49lardmanradiofree: ok, that was my assumption from the default business
13:30.49TermanaBut at least I get some laughs
13:31.00RST38hTermana: Surely there should be a BBC channel somewhere? Or are you at a US military base?
13:31.07lardmanradiofree: yeah, that's a difficult thing to get a handle on
13:31.14lardmanfor us over here anyway
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13:31.45TermanaRST38h, in Australia. I have pay-tv, but it's mostly repeats and crap. I have BBC I think, and CNN. And then all the other channels they chuck on
13:31.45radiofreeit's like health care, how can that not be something worth having? Republicans just shout the word "SOCIALISM!!" and most people revert back to the cold war
13:31.56GAN900RST38h, too socialist for my blood.
13:32.06radiofree^ see
13:32.07Termanaand Sky News
13:32.08GAN900radiofree, that's a vast simplification of the issue.
13:32.08RST38hGAN: Look at it logically then
13:32.22Termanabut they all seem boring. Even though I disagree with a lot of what is said on Fox News
13:32.22RST38hGAN: This is no fucking socialism. Not really.
13:32.40lardmanradiofree: healthcare is certainly worth having but it has to be done efficiently
13:33.11GAN900RST38h, I'm for demand based healthcare.
13:33.14RST38hGAN: Just a relatively approval worthy attempt to give you afforable health care, a failed attempt too
13:33.14lardmanwhich is an issue we have here
13:33.21GAN900Keep the idiocy out.
13:33.27GAN900Keep prices down.
13:33.41RST38hGAN: Having a federal health care plan would do that
13:33.43GAN900RST38h, Obamacare is unworkable.
13:33.56RST38hGAN: Dunno, did not get into details
13:34.05GAN900No, look at Medicare and Medicade to see how well the Feds can work it.
13:34.08GAN900They can't.
13:34.09lardmanFrom what I saw the problem with free healthcare in the US is that is annoys the people who pay their taxes and have provate healthcare that they will pay for those who don't have health insurance
13:34.14radiofreethat's why they need to fix it
13:34.17RST38hGAN: But having a federally managed insurance plan does not sound like such  bad idea to me
13:34.27RST38hlardman: Ah no
13:34.27radiofreeyes, what is the quote about the american poor/working class
13:34.37RST38hlardman: The problem is not with annoying stupid people
13:34.45radiofreethey don't see themselves as poor, rather temporarily embarrassed millionaires
13:34.46GAN900But as radiofree has so aptly demonstrated, you can't argue with feel-good emotions.
13:34.55GAN900Then you're just an evil rich white person.
13:34.58RST38hlardman: The problem is with the whole hc insurance industry that will see its business model disappear
13:35.34lardmanand they (and other large industrial bodies) hold serious sway afair over there
13:35.38RST38hlardman: there are huge non-profits there, making huge margins, paying no taxes, enriching whoever is managing them
13:35.54lardmanwhich is due to what, the way that senatorial campaigns are funded?
13:36.08GAN900lardman, them, and unions
13:36.10RST38hlardman: more or less
13:36.25GAN900any group who holds sway over money and voters holds sway over elected officials.
13:36.34RST38hbasically, GAN is correct
13:36.42lardmanis this all transparent or hidden - i.e. do you have lists of donations made to each senator and from whom?
13:36.50lardmanand for how much
13:36.53GAN900Stick the money going towards health insurance into individual savings accounts
13:36.55RST38hlardman: yes and no
13:37.00GAN900and switch to a demand-based system
13:37.10RST38hGAN: Nah, that will also fail
13:37.11GAN900Competition goes up, prices go down, quality goes up.
13:37.11lardmanGAN900: what's a demand based system?
13:37.20GAN900lardman, pay when you need it.
13:37.22radiofreewhat exactly is a demand-based system?
13:37.30radiofreeif you can't afford to pay you can't be treated?
13:37.31RST38hGAN: It will fail as the hc prices inflate and your account won't be able to keep up
13:37.32GAN900Like buying groceries.
13:37.40lardmanGAN900: won't that be very expensive?
13:37.42ruskiethe gov here(.si) scrapped the partial participation through health insurance simply because most of the money going to the insurance companies doesn't end up in the hc budget
13:38.01RST38hGAN: So, at least as far as hc is concerned, some price controls are needed. Or an artifical alternative like afederal hc plan.
13:38.07lardmanruskie: yeah that seems to be a major problem with adding an extra layer
13:38.15radiofreeok, so you think that will drive down the common prices, what if someone gets a rare type of cancer that requires specialist treatment?
13:38.30ruskieI'm happy we have national health care around here though
13:38.34GAN900lardman, hardly.
13:38.46GAN900Doctors and hospitals will actually have to compete for your business
13:38.58RST38hWell they still do right now
13:39.00GAN900instead of competing to get on insurance providers lists.
13:39.03radiofreeGAN900: why do you trust in the benevolence of "the markets" so much?
13:39.09GAN900Ultimately it'll drive prices down
13:39.14radiofreehaven't they already shown themselves to be pretty much the opposite?
13:39.15lardmanGAN900: my business by proxy though, as people won't be able to afford it themselves
13:39.18RST38hReally? You think so?
13:39.20GAN900radiofree, that statement is so fundamentally flawed. . . .
13:39.20RST38hWhy?
13:39.52RST38hGAN: You do understand that it is in the best interest of all market players to keep prices up?
13:40.00GAN900The two biggest components to health costs right now are overconsumption and insurance overhead.
13:40.06lardmanis enjoying this conversation, but must crack on with some coding
13:40.08GAN900RST38h, it's not.
13:40.21RST38hGAN: And the only way the prices can go down is in the result of a price war, event completely unwanted by all the players?
13:40.24GAN900Somebody will figure out they can get more customers if they charge reasonable prices.
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13:40.32radiofreeover-consumption, of health care? is that a joke?
13:40.41GAN900RST38h, you're talking about a monopoly or duopoly situation.
13:40.53RST38hGAN: oligopoly rather
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13:40.59GAN900Yes.
13:41.17RST38hGAN: But anyway, you are forgetting that these guys need to maximize profit, not throughput
13:41.44RST38hGAN: And maximizing throughput is only one of many ways to maximize profit.
13:41.59RST38hGAN: Not very effective or safe one BTW
13:42.05GAN900radiofree, I'm talking about testing without justification from symptoms or other indicators.
13:42.06SpeedEvilradiofree: no. Procedures carried out for the purpose of carrying them out, with limited evidence they help patients.
13:42.20GAN900Like running cat scans on anybody coming in with any kind of trauma.
13:42.24RST38hGAN: Do consider other ways and then you may get really scared
13:42.28SpeedEvilradiofree: Not to mention the elderly hanging on for another couple of weeks.
13:42.56RST38hGAN: I mean all these are ok with groceries where demand is elastic
13:43.19RST38hGAN: But hc is no groceries, it has got pretty stiff deman curve
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13:43.38RST38hGAN: Same goes for most of the utilities BTW
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13:48.28GAN900RST38h, I feel that I'm more qualified to make healthcare decisions for myself than Washington is
13:48.57RST38hGAN: But Washington has never intended to make any hc decisions for you, just give you an option
13:49.03GAN900and I'd rather see private charities, who actually have money and incentive to help people, provide for those who can't than Washington.
13:49.10GAN900RST38h, bullshit.
13:49.36RST38hGAN: No, really - the plan was to have an optional federal hc plan you can enroll in, OR you can enroll into a private plan of your choice
13:49.57GAN900Making it illegal not to have health insurance isn't not "choice".
13:50.02RST38hGAN: Which changes nothing to the current private hc plan customers BUT drops private hc prices through the floor
13:50.08RST38hGAN: Ah you mean that one
13:50.20RST38hGAN: Yes, I found that part funny too :)
13:50.23GAN900and it DOES change private plans.
13:50.46GAN900Invoking the commerce clause on a non-action is particularly revealing.
13:50.58RST38hGAN: It is pretty much just a way to tax you a little extra. BTW, MA has it in their laws
13:51.07RST38hAnd they DO have a state hc plan
13:51.21RST38hCosts something like $86/year in taxes, I think
13:51.47GAN900States have that power under the constitution
13:51.54RST38hI have not heard anybody complain about the MA plan.
13:51.55GAN900The Federal government does not.
13:52.09RST38hI mean, they do complain about taxes all the time but not about this particular item
13:52.17GAN900I have.
13:52.21GAN900Quite vocally.
13:52.44GAN900Either way, individual states should do whatever their voters feel is appropriate.
13:52.56lardmanbriefly stepping back on topic, what does a preceding pair of colons mean, with no class? E.g. ::socketpair()
13:52.57crashanddieenough of the crappy states discussions.
13:53.02crashanddieWho cares about the US of A
13:53.04RST38hDunno, I also agree that forcing everyone to have a plan federally is stupid
13:53.11GAN900The federal government doesn't quite have that freedom of action under the constitution
13:53.29RST38hEspecially if you do not provide an affordable option for this plan
13:53.47RST38hlardman: default namespace
13:53.56RST38hlardman: in your case, probably std::
13:54.15GAN900crashanddie, people who live here. But lardman has a real question so it'd time to stfu.
13:54.37lardmanRST38h: I guessed as much, unfortunately they don't belong to std but are in signal.h
13:54.59RST38hlardman: I think that belongs to std:: somehow :)
13:55.31crashanddielardman, I think it's global scope, not default namespace.
13:55.38lardmanyeah, perhaps I need to include <signal> rather than signal.h or somesuch
13:55.48GAN900crashanddie, probably the Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans and Germans, too. :P
13:56.08RST38hcrash is probably right
13:56.08crashanddieGAN900, do you know anyone who works at Verizon Miami?
13:56.11lardmanhttp://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/unix-signals.html is what I'm following, perhaps foolishly ;)
13:57.27crashanddiehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/b451xz31(VS.80).aspx
13:57.34crashanddieglobal variable/function.
13:57.37*** join/#maemo ChuckB (~Charlie@nat/nokia/x-zchcmbdqcohnpvur)
13:58.24GAN900crashanddie, Miami is, like, 250 miles away by car.
13:58.26*** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you)
13:58.53crashanddieGAN900, glad you're offering to go there yourself. $200 daily rate working for you?
13:59.12RST38hcrash: Will he get a gun for this job?
13:59.26crashanddieHe might get a gun pointed at him.
14:00.01*** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@dhcp14.dmg.tuwien.ac.at)
14:00.04RST38hcrash: Verizon is *that* tough?
14:00.21crashanddieIn all seriousness, one of our customers contracted Verizon to provide VoIP lines between EU and US (about 900 of them), and they're not answering to emails and we can't get a hold of anyone remotely technical.
14:00.53crashanddieWe explain we're a telco operator, and they're asking if we're calling for an iPoone or whatever.
14:01.14crashanddieIn this case, I'd say we're getting iPwned.
14:02.03RST38hcrash: A moment.
14:02.07GAN900RST38h, got one. :P
14:02.19RST38hthere might be an easier way to get this solved
14:02.52RST38hGAN: Ah, then it will be the ultimate deathmatch: a disgruntled customer vs the phone company operator!!!
14:03.46RST38hcrash: Try one of these: http://gethuman.com/Verizon-customer-service_1305.html
14:04.26GAN900crashanddie, Verizon is pretty terrible.
14:04.32*** join/#maemo Pali (~quassel@ip-88-212-34-237.antik.sk)
14:04.39crashanddieYeah, I know.
14:04.56SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Don't they have dedicated 'we're spending silly amounts of money' lines?
14:04.58crashanddieWe get more responsiveness out of BT on christmas night than from Verizon during business hours.
14:05.09RST38hSpeed: no
14:05.21crashanddieSpeedEvil, there are, but they are restricted from US callers.
14:05.25RST38hHell, I am getting almost instance response from MGTS
14:05.48RST38hWhile with Verizon it is always 45+ minutes of voice menus and human-manned voice menus
14:06.19crashanddieRST38h, you do realise I'm the product manager of one of the servers that powers those menus, right ;)
14:06.37RST38hcrash: Well, you are not buying them to torture your customers, are you?
14:06.47*** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@gateway01.m3-connect.de)
14:06.52crashanddieBuying? I'm developing it.
14:07.08TermanaBastard. Explains everything
14:07.33RST38hcrash: BTW, please, tell me, those Indians, do you keep them in dungeons, feeding them at the endo f the day based on the number of customers they sent away cussing?
14:07.54crashanddieHeck, the last side-project I worked on was a maze of menus and "Wait, don't hang up, we've got something special for you!" at 1.5euro per minute.
14:08.17villagerRST38h: "std::" is not the default namespace, it's the namespace used by the Standard C++ Library... normally you'd use "using namespace std;" at the top of the program to make the "std" namespace searched automatically when a namespace isn't explicitly specified
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14:08.30RST38hreconsiders his plans not to mention crashanddie to the Tentacled One
14:08.46RST38hvillager: sorry, my mistake.
14:09.24crashanddieRST38h, then again, it's a charlatan service (palm reading/future), so us making money out of people's credulity only feels like natural selection.
14:09.31crashanddieOr at least, that's how I help myself sleep at night.
14:10.10RST38hcrashanddie: Ok, no extermination then, just a life-long case of hemorrhoids.
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14:11.21*** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@proxy.edinst.com)
14:11.28vi__hello
14:11.38vi__is there a nice easy way to turn on the flash to use as a torch
14:11.41vi__?
14:11.46RST38hvi: yes
14:11.58RST38hvi: the Extras has got the Flashlight app.
14:12.00vi__i.e. echo 1 > /sys/somthing/somthing/flash/enable
14:12.05SpeedEvilvi__: no
14:12.16vi__bah
14:12.17SpeedEvilvi__: It's a v4l control.
14:12.30SpeedEvilSo you need to open /dev/vide0? and then do the rleevant ioctl
14:12.38vi__is flashlight applet the only thing available?
14:12.53*** join/#maemo radic (~radic@tmo-097-184.customers.d1-online.com)
14:12.55SpeedEvilI have use v4lctl to turn it on
14:13.02SpeedEvilBut it goes off immediately, and only flashes
14:13.13SpeedEvilAs v4lctl closes the FD
14:13.14vi__SpeedEvil: is it acheivable from a shell script?
14:13.32SpeedEvilvi__: I'm going to say probably not.
14:13.38SpeedEvilAt least, not withanything I've seen.
14:13.41SpeedEvilvi__: Why?
14:14.20vi__because I want to have the option of a flashlight without the stupid applet that cause >200 wakeups per 30s
14:14.33SpeedEvilvi__: Err - why?
14:14.45SpeedEvilWakeups are - generally - a lie.
14:14.56BCMMuh, you want to save battery while using the flash?
14:15.00vi__speedevil now that is not strictly true
14:15.07SpeedEvilThey are a very, very poor indication of power consumption in any but the idle state.
14:15.10BCMMin any case, not a shell script, but could be done in a very short C program
14:15.14SpeedEvilEven then, they are not great.
14:15.18vi__NO! I want to save battery when I am NOT using the flash!
14:15.26villagera python script might also be able to do it, maybe
14:15.27SpeedEvilvi__: Somethings wrong the.
14:15.37SpeedEvilvi__: I get no extra wakeups from the flashlight applet
14:15.52SpeedEvilTypical idle times of several seconds.
14:15.58vi__mm
14:16.18SpeedEvilYouare unplugging it andblanking the screen before running powertop?
14:16.29SpeedEvilIdeally turning the net off, and doing this through screen?
14:16.40vi__to run powertop I :
14:16.57vi__sleep 30; powertop && powertop && powertop
14:17.03SpeedEvilSee above
14:17.03vi__then average the results
14:17.10vi__in offline mode
14:17.24SpeedEvilWith screen blanked?
14:17.29vi__ofc
14:17.36vi__thats what the 30 seconds is for
14:17.38SpeedEvilAnd unplugged from USB?
14:17.41vi__yes
14:17.54SpeedEvilHAve you been screwing withthemenus?
14:18.03SpeedEvilAnd got a nice short menu screen?
14:18.06SpeedEvilerr appmenu
14:18.21vi__appmenu?
14:19.06vi__The appmenu is as is, I hav'nt added/removed anything
14:19.26SpeedEvilPastebin plz
14:19.29SpeedEvil(powertop)
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14:21.23markinfocan I setup my Facebook Account  in this internal Chat system on nokia n900? Is it safe enough?
14:21.52vi__markinfo: as safe as any other software written by basement dwelling nerds
14:21.59ShadowJKThe flashlight widget didn't increase the amount of wakeups for me
14:26.15BCMMmarkinfo: facebook chat can be accessed as a ordinary Jabber account
14:26.38BCMMnot sure what you mean about "safe enough"
14:27.31markinfoWould be better to setup Facebook in Pidgin?   as in this internal program?  (besides - what is the name of it?)
14:27.56markinfoempathy?
14:28.09*** join/#maemo oldhat (~oldhat@triband-mum-59.183.4.219.mtnl.net.in)
14:28.34BCMMmarkinfo: depends if you prefer pidgin to the Conversations app
14:28.53ShadowJKchecked source, flashlight-plugin has a 1s timer running whenever flashlight is on (LEDs on), checking the status of hte led controller
14:28.59BCMMmarkinfo: (the conversations app is the same one you use for SMS - it can send IMs in a similar interface)
14:29.16markinfohm - advantage of pidgin - i know where are the contacts stored.
14:29.36markinfowhat is the name this app for chats? (SMS too)
14:30.15SiceloConversations
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14:31.33BCMMmarkinfo: the application is called "Conversations". when you said "empathy", you may have been thinking of "telepathy"
14:31.52markinfoTelepathy - it is in Gnome
14:32.10BCMMtelepathy is the (non-maemo-specific) framework used for IM
14:32.17crashanddieMan man man, 2011 really isn't a good year for Sony. Now their warehouses are set ablaze.
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14:32.38markinfowell - facebook account to do in Conversations or in Pidgin?
14:32.55BCMMmarkinfo: i use facebook chat in conversations and it works fine
14:33.18BCMMit's just a regular Jabber account. You may need to enable it on teh facebook website, for existing facebook accounts at least
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14:40.23markinfoI had it in Pidgin on my notebook. But another more important Question. If I want backup contacts data from this Program "Conversations" - how to do that?
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15:01.15peterbjornxis it possible to compile BTRFS support into maemo's kernel
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15:07.38crashanddiepeterbjornx, I doubt it.
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15:15.05keriopeterbjornx: you don't really need it, do you
15:15.08keriounless you want your root FS to be on btrfs
15:15.23keriowell, /usr/ too
15:15.27keriobecause ~optification
15:15.36kerio~optification
15:15.36infobotwell, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3
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15:17.29crashanddiehaha
15:17.38crashanddiethe N9 won't be available in the US
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15:20.03Jaffacrashanddie: Similar response to TheInq about teh UK
15:20.19crashanddielmao
15:20.20Arkenoiseems that Elop is really worried about n9 success
15:20.26Arkenoiin the negative sense of course
15:20.45Arkenoihe cannot afford that
15:20.54wblazeOn top of the N9 coming in variants that run "meego" and "mango"? :|
15:21.03crashanddiemango?
15:21.07crashanddiewtf is mango?
15:21.10wblaze"Windows 7 Mango"
15:21.47wblazehttp://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/228521/windows_phone_7_mango_first_look_at_the_hot_new_features.html
15:22.28*** join/#maemo Itschue (~Itschue@p57AD39BD.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:22.29radiofreeheh, "We had enough of troubles with Windows on our computers. Let's keep our phones Windows free!"
15:22.40Itschueyes
15:22.43Itschuemoin moin
15:22.55wblazeI wouldn't mind a Windows phone assuming it worked for what I needed.
15:23.15kerioMANGO! MANGO! YEAH!
15:24.59wblazeOn top of that, the UIs were developed to be the same for the WP7 and Meego variants.
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15:33.15SpeedEvilI have one windows device I'm happy with.
15:33.19SpeedEvilGPS
15:33.24SpeedEvil'just works'
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15:37.03DocScrutinizer51could you post the charge.sh URL for wget c+p plese
15:40.23peterbjornxis there anyone here who knows from what script xinit/startx/Xorg gets executed
15:40.42peterbjornxcouldnt find it in rc2.d and rcS
15:40.54SpeedEvilpeterbjornx: Look in /etc/rc.d/x.post or something
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15:42.25SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
15:42.37DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: need charge script! buried alive under luggage in a car, wih N900 on generic charger
15:42.43peterbjornxthats called by the X initialization script
15:43.00peterbjornxi need to know what calls that
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15:44.44SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
15:45.44SpeedEvilThat seems to be called from the sgx driver init in the same dir
15:46.17SpeedEvilyeah - which is brought up by hal
15:47.52slonopotamusain't hal dead?
15:49.16DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: could you link me to shadowjks chargescript?
15:49.25SpeedEvilNo
15:49.36SpeedEvilI don't have a copy around, and don't remember where I got it.
15:49.51SpeedEvilI have one that oesn't really work well - I need to reboot after or BME sulks
15:50.06DocScrutinizer51enivax?
15:50.40SpeedEvilhttp://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge21.sh.txt
15:50.43DocScrutinizer51I need 100+ mA for the next 5h
15:50.48SpeedEvilseems to have turned up in my awesomebar
15:50.49DocScrutinizer51thnx
15:50.53SpeedEvilWhich looks right
15:51.12DocScrutinizer51-21
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15:56.59Itschuedoc
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15:58.57ItschueDocScrutinizer51
16:04.57edheldilSpeedEvil:  what does it do? Persuades n900 to charge with fewer amps?
16:08.14peterbjornxback, isnt that bad practice, starting anything outside of init during boot?
16:09.06keriolol bad practice
16:09.06kerio~optification
16:09.07infoboti heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3
16:10.46DocScrutinizer51yoh. NAC rising, thanks
16:11.41peterbjornxwhy isnt it possible to create a different partition mapping where /usr AND /opt reside on the eMCC
16:11.44peterbjornx*eMMC
16:11.53lardmananyone know how to compare arbitrary QVariants to see if their contents are identical?
16:12.24lardmanI could do a to*() operation, but some of those will only convert certain payload types
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16:13.03villagerpeterbjornx: supposedly some stuff needed during boot is in /usr
16:13.44villagerpeterbjornx: i.e., the "systeminit is FUBAR" part
16:13.53peterbjornxok, more bad design, but shouldnt it be possible to mount the eMMC before it loads init, like multiboot can do?
16:15.13villagernot with the standard kernel I think
16:15.34keriopeterbjornx: the mr hands video needs sound
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16:15.46villagermaybe the powerkernel could be made to do it
16:15.48kerioyay for pulseaudio in the early stages of the boot
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16:16.48peterbjornxmultiboot is able to boot from sd cards and emmc with standard kernel isnt it
16:16.50peterbjornxanhy
16:17.36villagerpeterbjornx: well that's different, that's still booting with a single rootfs
16:17.46peterbjornx*anyhow i use a custom kernel with framebuffer console for debugging so if i try to do this ( i know its risky) i can see what goes wrong
16:18.00peterbjornxyes but afaik mount and the FS modules dont use /usr
16:19.38villagerpeterbjornx: and neither does init... under FHS, init starts the boot scripts, which then mounts /usr... it is not mounted before init... you were talking about mounting it before init
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16:21.33peterbjornxi know, that way any component reliant on /usr would have it mounted
16:22.10peterbjornxwhat i mean is creating a preinit script that loads the necessary modules and mounts /usr , and then starts init
16:22.45SpeedEviledheldil: more amps, under some circumstances.
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16:23.32villagerthat would have to be an initrd... which, as mentioned, could probably be put into the powerkernel
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16:24.18peterbjornxno it wont have to be, as (afaik) the busybox utils and the kernel dont require /usr
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16:27.22villagerwhile the bootscripts started by init do...
16:28.34villagerI'm sure more people would have repartitioned it like that if it was easy
16:29.00peterbjornxas a test ill try to mount /home before init even gets executed
16:30.07DocScrutinizer51good luck
16:31.49peterbjornxas the very same script already mounts /sys , /proc, /tmp and sets up /dev
16:32.12peterbjornxso loading ext2 module and mounting /home shouldnt be very hard
16:34.19villagerthat's started by init, isn't it?
16:34.57peterbjornxno
16:34.58peterbjornxit isnt
16:35.01peterbjornxit starts init
16:35.58peterbjornxbtw why is there nothing on this in the wiki: vanilla preinit allows root device choosing from serial console
16:36.16peterbjornxits the script that shows the R&D info on the NOKIA screen
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17:30.31*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED | For Nokia: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
17:30.42Venemo_N950aah.
17:30.53DocScrutinizer51~+uptime
17:31.21Venemo_N950since it didn't respond to my ping, I thought I was disconnected
17:32.48DocScrutinizer51administrating an ircbot via N900 while buried under lugage  in a car on its way to chaos champ, damn I feel like a freak
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17:34.19GAN900DocScrutinizer51, could be worse.
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17:34.49lofty306:))
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17:36.01jacekowski<PROTECTED>
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18:06.17ruskiehttp://www.reghardware.com/2011/08/09/ps3_controller_gets_android_support/ <-- hmm
18:07.29ItschueDocScrutinizer51
18:08.47Itschuecan somebody help me
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18:12.50Itschuehello anyone here ?
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18:33.14DocScrutinizer51no I'm traveling
18:33.40DocScrutinizer51Vockerode
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18:37.59Itschuei have no  zoomfunction in angrybirds season i installed a angrybirds-mido.fayad.sh keymap file but i didnt work can anyone help me
18:39.05mihuHi. I want to add a new key using "about: config" in the browser on my N900, but I don't know how. I can use the search bar at the top to locate existing keys, but how do I add a new key? Any idea?
18:41.41DocScrutinizer51I seem to recall that doesnt work
18:42.06GAN900DocScrutinizer51, how long is the damn car ride?
18:44.08DocScrutinizer51some 6h
18:44.23DocScrutinizer512..3 left
18:45.15GAN900DocScrutinizer51, damn, long drive.
18:45.17Itschuecan anyone help me
18:47.14mihuHm, ok, what I really want is to fake my user agent, because some of my favourite sites recognize me now as a mobile user and present their stupid mobile layout to me. Any hints how to fake the user agent?
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18:51.53NIN101about:config :P or download some plugin...
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18:57.52*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED | For Nokia: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
18:58.12Itschuenobody here?
19:00.48mihuNIN101: As I already said, I cannot add a new string to "about: config", this sucks. And I found "HideUserAgent 0.3.7", but it has a package karma of -6 and is in extras-testing only.
19:02.09NIN101well I just found out how to do it
19:02.26NIN101I mean, editing in about:config
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19:03.50NIN101with the stylus, tap long enough on an entry...
19:06.11NIN101doesn't seam to be easy.
19:07.16NIN101oh, it is also possible with the return key on the keyboard.
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19:09.10mihuNIN101: Ah, ok, cool, works for me now as well. Now I tried to change "general.useragent.vendor" do something else. How do I save these settings? If I just close the browser window and start "about: config" again, then the old value is back again.
19:10.45NIN101hmm, you are right
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19:16.07mihuNIN101: I'm currently browsing talk.maemo.org and this issue has come up over and over again. Some say that the problem is that some background processes keep MicroB running and erasing the change.
19:16.31NIN101I think it's "browserd"
19:16.32villagermihu: I suppose you could try to always leave at least one browser window open to keep the browser process from shutting down
19:16.49villagerworks for me
19:17.04NIN101heh don't kill browserd
19:17.31villagerif it shuts down, then I guess it loads default settings when it restarts
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19:18.50villagerhmm... wonder where those default settings are loaded from...
19:18.57NIN101.mozilla/microb/prefs.js
19:19.02NIN101or something
19:20.25mihuNIN101: That's true. I tried to manually change these as well, but they are overwritten as well. And I did not find a way to stop the browser from relaunching. There is an init script /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon.init but a "stop" there does not work. Heck, I'm familiar administrating my system on the command line, but my N900 just won't let me.
19:20.45Itschuehttp://www.forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=73315  is this realy a good thing?
19:20.52NIN101there is a way, I'm sure.
19:22.22GAN900DocScrutinizer51, let us know if you see pupnik there.
19:22.40NIN101mihu: hmm, not true. Just changed the file and rebootet. Before starting the browser, my string was there, after that, they have been overwritten again.
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19:23.17DocScrutinizer51I dunno how he looks
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19:26.42NIN101mihu: /usr/lib/microb-engine/defaults/pref
19:26.45NIN101looks interesting
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19:30.21NIN101brb
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19:35.10mihuNIN101: You made my day. Thank you very much. I just added "pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110628 Ubuntu/10.10 (maverick) Firefox/3.6.18");" to the end of the file, did a "killall -9 browser browserd" and loaded the page again. I checked with http://whatsmyuseragent.com/ and it shows the correct string and now I'm not redirected to the mobile version of the site any more
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19:40.57NIN101mihu: yw
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20:18.36Dantonicquestion... what kernel does the cssu maemo5 include?  I've been trying to use mobile hotspot, and I guess I need the power kernel, but I don't want it to break anything in regards to the current cssu maemo 5 I have installed
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20:18.59cehtehcssu doesnt come with kernel
20:19.11vi__is there a dbus call to set the operator name
20:19.19vi__I mean
20:19.35GAN900http://www.humblebundle.com/
20:19.40vi__where can I find the dbus call to set the operator name?
20:19.42GAN900Ending in about two hours.
20:21.57Dantoniccetheh so, if I install power kernel would it screw anything up?  
20:22.24Dantonicalso, I'm able to overclock, I thought u had to have a special kernel to be able to do that...
20:22.24cehtehnope
20:22.43cehtehyou can use cssu with power kernel
20:22.54cehtehand power kernel allows you to fry your device too
20:22.57vi__Dantonic: open xterm and type:
20:23.01vi__uname -r
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20:23.51Dantonic2.6.28-omap1
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20:24.28vi__then you cannot overclock
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20:25.43Dantonicoh... strange, thought I had the power kernel... I recently installed nitdroid, I wonder if it installed a different kernel
20:26.00Dantonicwould it mess up the dual boot if I change the kernel?
20:26.12cehtehsee topic :P
20:26.16vi__I dunno
20:26.26vi__never bothered with that android pish
20:26.50vi__you would need to install the multiboot package for the kernel you are installing
20:26.52Dantonicthe only reason I installed is so I can watch justintv cause it needs flash 10
20:26.56vi__or something
20:27.06vi__lol
20:27.18vi__I don't even own a TV
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20:27.30Dantonicheh
20:28.31vi__You could always open a topic asking for help on TMO
20:28.45Dantonicok
20:28.48vi__be warned though, read and do your research first
20:29.03vi__or they'll rip you a new one
20:29.20Dantonicwell what's the worst that could happen if I re install power kernel?  I wouldn't be able to boot into nitdroid?
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20:29.33vi__possibly yes
20:29.43Dantonicbut maemo will be fine right?
20:29.54vi__id imagine so
20:30.06Dantonicbtw I dislike android too....
20:30.09Dantonic:P
20:30.22Dantonicbenn messing with it for a few days now...
20:30.26vi__even if you fuck it up, you can always re-flash maemo kernel
20:30.38vi__to fix everything
20:30.45Dantonicyeah
20:30.46vi__android blows
20:30.57vi__the sooner ppl realise this the better
20:30.58DantonicI feel like I have no cpontrol over the os
20:31.04vi__lols
20:31.05Dantonicu can't close apps?
20:31.08Dantonicwtf
20:31.33vi__just 'background' them, it is the same thing
20:31.34DantonicI read on the internet: oh android does it for you, just don't worry about it...
20:31.41DantonicI'm like huh?
20:31.45vi__well it does kinda
20:31.50DantonicI wanna close the goddamn app
20:32.07Dantonicyeah idk
20:32.26Dantonicmade me realize how good maemo is... I hadn't tried android before
20:32.36Dantonicbut always thought it might be better
20:32.44Dantonictoo bad we can't get flash
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20:33.12vi__well, some dont really care for flash
20:33.32Dantonicyeah but I do
20:33.35vi__android is a nice simple OS for nice simple people.
20:33.46Dantonicyeah I sure see that
20:33.59vi__like symbian but without balls
20:35.48vi__brb
20:35.51vi__dinner
20:35.53vi__|
20:35.55vi__!
20:35.58Dantonickk ty
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21:08.27piggzcatching up on the 'meego coding competition' thread...it got interesting today :)
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21:14.50antman8969heading over now! any judging start yet?
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21:15.18antman8969last I heard the disqualified contestants were arguing
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21:19.04vi__~dict lame
21:19.24vi__lol
21:19.31vi__a 'game' leg
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21:19.47vi__I think that should be a 'gammy' leg
21:20.09vi__did you hear about the man with a gammy leg named smith?
21:20.28vi__no, what did he call the other one?
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21:21.03vi__-_- il get my coat
21:22.31Dantonichey
21:22.35Dantonickernel-power-flasher: PreDepends: kernel-power (= 2.6.28-maemo42) but 1:2.6.28-10power47 is to be installed
21:22.56Dantoniccan't install the power kernel for some reason
21:23.29Dantonicunmet dependencies
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21:27.48ruskieso nice having 0 usable navigation apps on the n900
21:28.07ruskieto correct... offline navigation apps
21:28.11NIN101ack
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21:36.44GAN900http://www.humblebundle.com/ tick tick tick
21:37.10maybeWTFBOOM
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21:54.55Juozapashow to use asterisk * symbol in apt-get command?
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22:10.46piggzantman8969: yeah, there was some whining...seemed to involve abill_uk too, i dont think voting has started yet
22:11.10antman8969drama can be fun...
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23:36.22Juozapaswhat is the name of "user guide" package? i want to remove it via apt-get
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