| 00:06.05 | javispedro | oh my goodness. |
| 00:06.14 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 00:06.29 | javispedro | there's a guy in the n950 waiting list who has done a 8086->arm static recompiler that is enough to run at least one game |
| 00:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | came to offer some smalltalk before I die from boredom? |
| 00:06.40 | javispedro | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7UidW2tMtQ |
| 00:06.44 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yes |
| 00:07.17 | DocScrutinizer | incredible |
| 00:08.27 | DocScrutinizer | recompiler as in take x86 binary, cook in sulfuric acid with garlic, get working arm binary that may run on maemo?? |
| 00:08.44 | javispedro | that's my understanding of it. |
| 00:08.52 | DocScrutinizer | dang |
| 00:09.25 | javispedro | the rather large con is that it'll probably have very limited compatibility |
| 00:09.36 | javispedro | but I always wondered why nobody tried it. |
| 00:11.52 | DocScrutinizer | 4 years old |
| 00:13.29 | DocScrutinizer | last thing I didn't really follow, on #harmattan, was they run native x86 binaries |
| 00:13.51 | javispedro | ? |
| 00:14.01 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, same here |
| 00:14.14 | javispedro | there's a guy around who runs qemu-user x86 in the n900 |
| 00:14.17 | javispedro | and n950 |
| 00:14.33 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, might been it |
| 00:14.33 | javispedro | but that is plain emulation |
| 00:14.49 | javispedro | static recompilation is where the money is today =) |
| 00:14.55 | javispedro | (obviously not :) ) |
| 00:15.13 | javispedro | but I'd like to try, I was trying to google if he published this stuff somewhere. |
| 00:17.04 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: seen my comment about that FMRX mode register? I think it might need some initialization |
| 00:17.10 | javispedro | not yet |
| 00:17.24 | DocScrutinizer | err, posted the comment like 2 weeks ago |
| 00:17.38 | javispedro | uh, in the thread? |
| 00:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 00:17.48 | javispedro | stupid vbulletin didn't send me mail, then. |
| 00:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | not unusual |
| 00:18.32 | javispedro | ah |
| 00:18.38 | DocScrutinizer | when FMC says "no further mail will get sent until you visit..." they actually mean it |
| 00:18.38 | javispedro | seems that it is you who didn' read my comment :) |
| 00:18.50 | javispedro | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3902 |
| 00:23.16 | javispedro | what do you think? |
| 00:23.26 | javispedro | I wish I had the ds |
| 00:23.30 | DocScrutinizer | master looks fishy, maybe |
| 00:24.09 | DocScrutinizer | I'd actually expect SoC wants to be master |
| 00:24.40 | DocScrutinizer | which also would explain the stalled data transmission aka missing clock pretty much |
| 00:25.55 | javispedro | sadly, seemingly no wait to change that from userspace |
| 00:25.57 | javispedro | *way |
| 00:26.56 | javispedro | oh man, the founder of gentoo "just got a touchpad" =) |
| 00:28.04 | DocScrutinizer | err, no way to change? how that? I thought there was some cmd in v4l2* to change that? |
| 00:28.55 | javispedro | you can change some parts of the bitfield |
| 00:29.01 | javispedro | rate, width |
| 00:29.34 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: at very least you could check what mode the SoC (twl5031?) ISS is in, as I gather it's the same IF that's used for e.g BT headsets |
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| 00:32.25 | DocScrutinizer | which btw is a debatable design, regarding ALSA. I'd feel better with dedicated mutually exclusive audiocards for BT A2DP, BT SCO, FMRX... |
| 00:32.44 | javispedro | such is life... |
| 00:32.55 | javispedro | no idea how to check that so far.. :P |
| 00:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | and each of those "audio cards" initializes the mode register and other stuff accordingly on pcm_open() |
| 00:34.37 | javispedro | yeah, sounds more reasonable |
| 00:34.40 | DocScrutinizer | how to check: well, probably find what's the audio card used for BT, then see what the source does. EEEW that's prolly PA again, not BT |
| 00:34.49 | DocScrutinizer | s/BT/ALSA/ |
| 00:35.05 | DocScrutinizer | grr, not this one, the other one |
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| 00:35.56 | DocScrutinizer | isn't this bluez stuff built on PA? |
| 00:36.23 | javispedro | I did not study how BT audio works in Harmattan yet |
| 00:36.29 | javispedro | in fact, I've not even tested it yet. |
| 00:36.39 | DocScrutinizer | never looked into it, don't even know if it's bluez that gets used for harm |
| 00:36.46 | javispedro | yeah |
| 00:36.51 | javispedro | It's bluez. |
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| 00:38.35 | DocScrutinizer | definitely I think that's the same McBSP3 IF |
| 00:39.05 | DocScrutinizer | BT_PCM(3:0) |
| 00:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | BTFM > |
| 00:39.08 | DocScrutinizer | BTFM module |
| 00:39.19 | DocScrutinizer | p.2 schem |
| 00:40.11 | DocScrutinizer | dang SPI4 directly above ->WLAN |
| 00:40.49 | javispedro | n900 schem? |
| 00:40.50 | DocScrutinizer | FM_INT :-o |
| 00:40.54 | DocScrutinizer | yoh |
| 00:41.12 | DocScrutinizer | FM_INT !!!! |
| 00:41.22 | jiero | N9 australia preorder price $645 :D going to try convince other for it |
| 00:41.54 | SpeedEvil | jiero: You can order now? |
| 00:41.58 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: lol, but then again n900 fmrx is quite different |
| 00:42.06 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: nevermind, my brain went on holiday |
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| 00:42.21 | jiero | SpeedEvil: http://www.smoothmobiles.com.au/nokia-n9-16gb.html?SID=qkvhe7ddbap1j7m05mdlu1cd95 |
| 00:42.25 | SpeedEvil | jiero: Neat. |
| 00:42.36 | SpeedEvil | Isn't FM_INT for RDS |
| 00:42.44 | SpeedEvil | hasn't poked that bit |
| 00:43.17 | DocScrutinizer | quite possible, SpeedEvil |
| 00:43.32 | SpeedEvil | jiero: I assume you know the SD card option is bogus? |
| 00:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I just was completely erratic |
| 00:43.41 | SpeedEvil | I thought the n9 was 32, not 16. |
| 00:43.47 | SpeedEvil | G |
| 00:43.49 | javispedro | n9 is either 16 or 64G |
| 00:43.59 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 00:44.35 | javispedro | $645? |
| 00:44.52 | javispedro | pssh. |
| 00:45.03 | SpeedEvil | 412 pounds |
| 00:45.22 | SpeedEvil | Wasn't the n900 499 at launch? |
| 00:45.45 | DocScrutinizer | 7 day piece of mind guarantee -- COOL |
| 00:45.47 | javispedro | aw yes, seems that the dollar is falling quicklier than I thought. |
| 00:46.37 | DocScrutinizer | wonders what to do with the mind piece |
| 00:46.57 | SpeedEvil | Leather tanning. |
| 00:47.01 | javispedro | I think SpeedEvil is right and FM_INT is for RDS: |
| 00:47.07 | javispedro | s/:/./ |
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| 00:50.24 | DocScrutinizer | speakerphone: no - LOL |
| 00:53.31 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: javispedro: (FM_INT) wild guess: signal getting weak, request to tune "me" to another alternative frequency as suggested by RDS |
| 00:54.37 | DocScrutinizer | voice traffic message starting - please stop mp3 playback and switch to radio audio |
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| 00:54.53 | javispedro | na, just "pending rds stuff in fifo" |
| 00:54.54 | DocScrutinizer | things like that |
| 00:55.02 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, or that |
| 00:55.26 | DocScrutinizer | then you'd still send the above msgs via fifo |
| 00:55.28 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 00:55.49 | javispedro | touché |
| 00:56.11 | javispedro | I do not see a similar interupt on the wl1273 though |
| 00:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | nah, you're right it's probably as general purpose as it gets |
| 00:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | supposed to get polled constantly? |
| 00:58.41 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI you always have several busses to/fro that multipurpose chip. Some of them may be able to trigger a IRQ |
| 00:58.55 | javispedro | ah, way, there's a line. |
| 00:58.57 | javispedro | *wait |
| 00:59.32 | DocScrutinizer | where do you see that line? on that marketing paper crap? |
| 00:59.38 | javispedro | no, I'm reading driver |
| 00:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | AAAH |
| 00:59.45 | javispedro | sadly there's no mxr I could link you to.. |
| 00:59.58 | javispedro | either way I just gazed at wl1273-core.c:735 |
| 01:00.09 | javispedro | way, I'll pastebin it. |
| 01:00.45 | javispedro | http://pastebin.com/4W7YqNTa |
| 01:01.16 | javispedro | on line 735 is the service routine |
| 01:03.04 | DocScrutinizer | will take a while, I'm actually *reading* it, got to line 50 now |
| 01:03.06 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 01:03.08 | javispedro | my brain's autocompleter seems to have decided to write way instead of wait and wait instead of way today. |
| 01:03.38 | javispedro | hits his own head a few times to trigger reset |
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| 01:04.30 | DocScrutinizer | WTF WL1273_POWER_SET_RETENTION ? |
| 01:04.57 | javispedro | btw the driver is rather large |
| 01:05.00 | javispedro | that's just the "common" part |
| 01:05.11 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, agther that |
| 01:05.13 | javispedro | there's stuff in alsa (for codec), v4l, ... |
| 01:05.55 | DocScrutinizer | and also it's a driver written by "Nokia" which is kinda strange regarding they don't officially support FM |
| 01:07.18 | javispedro | this is the only reason I spend time on it |
| 01:07.33 | javispedro | otherwise I'd say " it's broken and aegis won't let me replace it" |
| 01:07.49 | javispedro | nokia made it probably means it has been tested on n950... |
| 01:13.13 | DocScrutinizer | check amixer for mode setting |
| 01:14.03 | DocScrutinizer | I bet you should set this bit (literally bit) right *prior* to opening the McBSP audiocard |
| 01:14.35 | javispedro | yeah, I do that. |
| 01:14.44 | DocScrutinizer | data transfer won't start automagically when you open the audio card and *then* twiddle with the master/slave setting |
| 01:14.46 | javispedro | however I think the order in which I set the individual controls is important |
| 01:19.45 | jiero | Hi, is there a way use N900 as bluetooth Speaker? instead of streaming? |
| 01:21.37 | Juozapas | is there any file size limit for ./MyDocs dir? |
| 01:21.52 | javispedro | Juozapas: fat32 one |
| 01:21.58 | javispedro | around 2 GiB. |
| 01:23.03 | Juozapas | so that can be the reason why rtorrent close connect...(?) |
| 01:23.13 | Juozapas | connection* |
| 01:23.43 | javispedro | no idea. |
| 01:23.53 | DocScrutinizer | size limit 2GB, seen it more than once |
| 01:23.55 | jiero | um. I do prefer having a 10GB rootfs... my laptop use 50GB for /, 200GB for /home |
| 01:24.46 | Juozapas | so solution is convert it to ext3? |
| 01:25.29 | jiero | do you really need a file more than 2GB? |
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| 01:29.48 | Juozapas | good q :) |
| 01:29.53 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: anyway, line 770 for signal |
| 01:31.11 | DocScrutinizer | 826 awesome |
| 01:31.39 | javispedro | it's nice to see that even if you have the official docs you're still hungry. |
| 01:33.04 | DocScrutinizer | 823 stinks |
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| 01:39.10 | javispedro | hm... another onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0100, addr1 0x4, addr8 0xac |
| 01:42.27 | javispedro | there's that dmesg error in fm driver also |
| 01:42.36 | javispedro | wl1273_fm_write_cmd: Cmd: 102 fails |
| 01:43.32 | javispedro | but that happens just in line 598 |
| 01:43.41 | javispedro | a comment there says: "/* ignore possible error here */" |
| 01:43.45 | javispedro | so I guess I should. |
| 01:45.36 | javispedro | reading RDS is easy btw: cat /dev/radio0 |
| 01:45.45 | javispedro | of course it is encoded so not human readable. |
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| 01:51.41 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I wonder what suspend in FMRX mode might mean. (line 1195) |
| 01:52.30 | javispedro | I can enter it freely |
| 01:52.41 | javispedro | RDS empties |
| 01:53.07 | javispedro | loses currently tuned freq |
| 01:54.09 | javispedro | [32499.014923] wl1273-fm 3-0022: wl1273_fm_read_reg: Read: 55 fails. |
| 01:54.10 | javispedro | [32535.533905] i2c_omap i2c_omap.3: Arbitration lost |
| 01:54.10 | javispedro | [32536.596038] i2c_omap i2c_omap.3: timeout waiting for bus ready |
| 01:54.18 | javispedro | I lost the chip =) |
| 01:54.48 | javispedro | sighs |
| 01:54.59 | javispedro | ah well, thank god the driver allowed me to shut it down. |
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| 02:06.08 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: 1703 ff are kinda interesting |
| 02:06.46 | DocScrutinizer | 1708 |
| 02:07.52 | javispedro | yeah |
| 02:07.58 | javispedro | analog is the default for some reason |
| 02:08.43 | javispedro | btw, I cannot turn fmtx on |
| 02:08.46 | javispedro | I get -EPERM |
| 02:08.55 | javispedro | no idea why, no error on dmesg.. |
| 02:09.58 | DocScrutinizer | allowed_modes or sth |
| 02:11.07 | DocScrutinizer | 1374 |
| 02:11.10 | javispedro | hm |
| 02:11.16 | javispedro | rm680 has allowed modes set to fmrx only |
| 02:11.22 | javispedro | but rx71 has it set to fmrx+tx |
| 02:11.31 | javispedro | as is rm696 |
| 02:11.59 | DocScrutinizer | heh |
| 02:12.33 | DocScrutinizer | what's N9? |
| 02:12.49 | DocScrutinizer | 71? |
| 02:13.00 | DocScrutinizer | nah rm696? |
| 02:13.07 | javispedro | CONFIG_MACH_NOKIA_RX71=y |
| 02:13.08 | javispedro | CONFIG_MACH_NOKIA_RM680=y |
| 02:13.08 | javispedro | CONFIG_MACH_NOKIA_RM696=y |
| 02:13.09 | javispedro | lol |
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| 02:13.13 | javispedro | I did not think you could do that? |
| 02:13.26 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA |
| 02:13.43 | DocScrutinizer | a true universal sw |
| 02:14.43 | DocScrutinizer | meh, this sucks without schematics |
| 02:14.54 | SpeedEvil | It would be quite fun if that actually workerd. |
| 02:15.17 | DocScrutinizer | really, RE'ing schematics from driver source is so OMFG *headdesk* |
| 02:15.54 | javispedro | seemingly bootloader passes in the machine type |
| 02:15.56 | SpeedEvil | n9 service manual leaked only I think. |
| 02:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | RE'ing datasheets from sore even worse |
| 02:17.35 | javispedro | this is absurd |
| 02:17.45 | javispedro | even when chip is Off arecord does the same |
| 02:17.54 | javispedro | must be something stupid |
| 02:18.23 | DocScrutinizer | shall I do the sciphone with N950? http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Sciphone_Dream_G2#PCB_layers |
| 02:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
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| 02:26.30 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I think the wl shall be in slave mode, not master? |
| 02:26.44 | javispedro | as said I cannot change that |
| 02:26.52 | javispedro | if that's the case -- then it's as good as broken. |
| 02:26.55 | DocScrutinizer | or we need to set the "audio card" aka McBSP to slave mode |
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| 02:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | try different sequences like swapping order of setting up and starting wl, and starting audiocard |
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| 02:31.18 | DocScrutinizer | actually when in master mode the wl should start anyway, aiui. I just has a clock line, a data line with (usually) 32 databits in sync with clock, and a "start bit" line that tags the first bit of a 32 bit frame |
| 02:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | all 3 are output, and the data input will most likely get ignored |
| 02:33.26 | javispedro | wl1273 is on mcbsp4 |
| 02:33.38 | javispedro | configured as MCBSP_CLKACT_IOFF_FON |
| 02:33.42 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, how does that help? |
| 02:34.04 | javispedro | trying to understand.. |
| 02:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | whatever that means |
| 02:34.46 | DocScrutinizer | clock active??? as slave? Input(?)OFF? FrameON? |
| 02:35.16 | DocScrutinizer | need a peek to SoC DS |
| 02:35.19 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 02:35.40 | javispedro | na, slave |
| 02:35.44 | javispedro | it is set to slave |
| 02:35.49 | javispedro | SND_SOC_DAIFMT_CBM_CFM |
| 02:35.50 | DocScrutinizer | AHAAA |
| 02:36.11 | javispedro | this means "slave" seemingly |
| 02:36.19 | javispedro | according to omap-mcbsp.c:603 |
| 02:37.25 | javispedro | ( http://pastebin.com/gPCK4MkN ) |
| 02:38.45 | javispedro | and dfl61-wl1273.c:46 ( http://pastebin.com/2b1x7MqS ) configures it that way. |
| 02:39.06 | javispedro | hm |
| 02:40.39 | javispedro | I ponder how often is snd_soc_ops->startup called |
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| 02:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | but look at 551 .. 589 pfooooh |
| 02:42.12 | DocScrutinizer | of omap-mcbsp |
| 02:42.37 | javispedro | SND_SOC_DAIFMT_I2S | SND_SOC_DAIFMT_NB_NF | SND_SOC_DAIFMT_CBM_CFM is the fmt when in fmrx mode |
| 02:50.52 | javispedro | hum |
| 02:51.15 | javispedro | wl1273_fm_radio wl1273_fm_radio: INT_MASK: 0x0000 |
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| 02:52.50 | javispedro | something weird there, I do not see where it clears the int_mask. |
| 02:53.04 | javispedro | also a stupid thing to do.. |
| 02:55.33 | DocScrutinizer | I think it's pretty much an insult to throw those drivers over the wall without any example code to test them, without any readme how to use them... |
| 02:56.50 | javispedro | an evil |
| 02:56.52 | javispedro | *and |
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| 02:58.06 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, then set it to analog default and do not mention if it's conected at all via analog, and if so then to which analog input of mixer |
| 02:59.48 | javispedro | I am now realizing that this log-status operation is destructive |
| 02:59.53 | javispedro | because it reads the int_mask |
| 03:00.03 | javispedro | and it causes something to happen to the device |
| 03:00.08 | javispedro | exactly what I dunno. |
| 03:00.12 | javispedro | need DS :) |
| 03:00.26 | DocScrutinizer | actually I wonder how they managed to get some of those I2C control register on an ioctl for v4l2 while others sit in a soundcard ctl and show up in amixer |
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| 03:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | tx power in amixer, go figure! |
| 03:02.04 | DocScrutinizer | alsamixer actually |
| 03:02.12 | javispedro | samething |
| 03:02.21 | javispedro | albeit for some reason alsamixer can't set Mode |
| 03:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 03:02.40 | DocScrutinizer | got mad about it |
| 03:03.44 | DocScrutinizer | after 2 hours it got me wasted |
| 03:05.11 | javispedro | no ideas |
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| 03:05.28 | DocScrutinizer | same here |
| 03:05.31 | javispedro | the only thing I've discovered is that if you keep /dev/radio0 open then arecord takes a little more time to timeout |
| 03:05.41 | javispedro | as in, 4 or 5 seconds. |
| 03:05.53 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 03:06.44 | javispedro | maybe I should try and see how BT audio works |
| 03:06.56 | DocScrutinizer | good plan |
| 03:07.08 | javispedro | but I think they'll do bluez instead of using this crap. |
| 03:07.50 | javispedro | battery life when using a BT headset was probably not a goal :) |
| 03:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | depends on what BT in turn is using |
| 03:13.55 | javispedro | what is Tx Ctune btw |
| 03:14.24 | javispedro | it's read only |
| 03:14.52 | javispedro | ooh --- TX tuning capacitor |
| 03:15.27 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 03:15.37 | DocScrutinizer | cool audio control, no? ;-P |
| 03:15.51 | javispedro | indeed. |
| 03:16.39 | DocScrutinizer | makes you wonder how much of the stuff the coder actually understood |
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| 03:17.58 | DocScrutinizer | maybe e could get CPU core voltage as an audio control as well? X-D |
| 03:18.15 | javispedro | hey, don't give ideas to those crazy tmo overclockers. |
| 03:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | TX power isn'T r/o iirc |
| 03:19.51 | javispedro | nope |
| 03:20.54 | DocScrutinizer | we could replace settings completely by alsamixer |
| 03:21.10 | javispedro | I think I now completely confused the driver |
| 03:21.22 | javispedro | it is allowing me to aplay data into the codec |
| 03:22.15 | javispedro | no complains in dmesg.. |
| 03:22.34 | DocScrutinizer | technically mcbsp IF is always bidir |
| 03:22.44 | javispedro | and asme thing happens |
| 03:22.51 | javispedro | after some data written |
| 03:22.54 | javispedro | timeout and -EIO |
| 03:23.31 | javispedro | (evidently while waiting for space in buffer) |
| 03:24.28 | javispedro | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh |
| 03:24.39 | javispedro | even in Bt mode the _same_ _thing_ _happens_ |
| 03:24.44 | DocScrutinizer | toldya one card for all is a bewildering design |
| 03:29.10 | DocScrutinizer | anyway if there's some working FOSS BT "framework" on that thing, it might work similarly for FM |
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| 03:29.46 | javispedro | oh |
| 03:29.52 | DocScrutinizer | so getting same error for BT is better than getting the error only for FMRX |
| 03:29.57 | javispedro | I now realize that "Audio Mode" is a purely software thing |
| 03:30.01 | javispedro | er.. |
| 03:30.04 | javispedro | "Codec Mode" |
| 03:30.26 | javispedro | this makes this very weird |
| 03:30.48 | DocScrutinizer | what's the values for codec mode? |
| 03:30.54 | javispedro | BT FmRx FmTx |
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| 03:31.02 | DocScrutinizer | dang |
| 03:31.03 | javispedro | cause this means .... |
| 03:31.13 | DocScrutinizer | it all works alike |
| 03:31.28 | javispedro | and among other things hardware nevers get notified if I switch it to "bt" |
| 03:31.35 | javispedro | so switching it to bt does ... nothing?? |
| 03:31.38 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 03:31.41 | javispedro | now understands even less than moments ago |
| 03:32.05 | DocScrutinizer | that's what v4l2 is for |
| 03:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | .oO(???) |
| 03:32.55 | javispedro | seemingly all codec mode does is set some alsa parameter validation |
| 03:33.07 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 03:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | why is it _always_ audio that's messed up fubar, no matter on which platform? |
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| 03:35.38 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 03:37.54 | javispedro | gives up for the day |
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| 04:49.06 | jiero | I found my best font for N900 : Linux Biolinum! |
| 04:49.43 | jiero | its style very similar to Chinese writing :D imo |
| 04:53.05 | psycho_oreos | `best' is best described as per se, of one's particular interest |
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| 04:55.34 | jiero | psycho_oreos: I spoken: "my best"... |
| 04:56.12 | psycho_oreos | jiero, rather best rephrased as my \favourite\ instead of \best\ ;) |
| 04:56.59 | jiero | psycho_oreos: yeah, its not eye-catching then. |
| 05:01.14 | jiero | psycho_oreos: what font you use? |
| 05:02.56 | psycho_oreos | jiero, a mixture of standard/extra fonts (nothing special really, I only care about legible factors rather than having fancy ones). For instance, on X-Terminal I use Droid fonts, but otherwise I use standard Nokia Sans/Nokia Pure fonts |
| 05:07.01 | jiero | psycho_oreos: ty. have you seen a problem that apt always try to uninstall Droids Font? Due to this problem, I was frustrated and getting other fonts from my laptop... |
| 05:09.10 | psycho_oreos | jiero, never seen an issue with apt always wanting to try and and uninstall droid font. I have had at one stage apt incorrectly asking to install a whole bunch of other packages (was related to i10n to be frank) and I think that was fixed up. Probably because the maintainer was modifying the Depends field for that metapackage. |
| 05:11.10 | jiero | ok, hopefully its only on me... |
| 05:14.24 | psycho_oreos | I'm guessing it might be the repositories of which you enable/use which may cause apt to do that. There might be a fix for it but don't quote me on it. I have to deal with issues on HAM showing up old packages needing to upgrade, which they have already been upgraded. |
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| 05:24.47 | psycho_oreos | jiero, when you mean apt always trying to uninstall droid font you mean that whenever you execute apt-get download <package> for instance it shows up ttf-droid is no longer required and can be removed via autoremove command? |
| 05:25.34 | jiero | psycho_oreos: yes |
| 05:25.45 | jiero | and even i install it. |
| 05:26.32 | psycho_oreos | I'm rethinking about it now. I know that appears when a package you have installed previously did depend on that package so if it was installed manually (as in ttf-droid) it may not show that issue. |
| 05:31.06 | jiero | complex logic to meO:) Im simple mind... |
| 05:31.13 | jiero | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OilBV3CUYw&NR=1 |
| 05:31.26 | jiero | I want this game to port to N900 :D |
| 05:32.34 | psycho_oreos | its a pretty simple fix I think.. uninstall ttf-droid font (make sure you're not using ttf-droid anywhere) and then manually install ttf-droid. That autoremove message should no longer appear hopefully |
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| 05:40.40 | jiero | psycho_oreos: thanks, I told you it won't work:D |
| 05:40.46 | jiero | but.. |
| 05:40.51 | jiero | thanks |
| 05:41.33 | psycho_oreos | jiero, there has to be a way to make it work :p I installed ttf-droid on its own and never had that autoremove option for ttf-droid. I'm presuming the same could be said and done in your case. Though if apt-get doesn't work, I'd just go through the dpkg route |
| 05:43.28 | jiero | yeah, just mv ï½ |
| 05:44.31 | psycho_oreos | lol well mv is technically the last sort of resort that I would use if apt-get still moans about ttf-droid as a dependency package |
| 05:45.05 | psycho_oreos | the only issue with that is you'll have to rm it should you no longer require the font in the near future |
| 05:45.08 | jiero | psycho_oreos: I then won't bother package management... |
| 05:45.54 | jiero | psycho_oreos: I just need to reformat all repartation all... 2GB is very strict too me... |
| 05:46.12 | jiero | I need at least 7 GB i suppose. |
| 05:47.07 | psycho_oreos | jiero, not that package management is either good or bad but to have a somewhat sense of centralising all the individual bits and pieces of the files that resides on the fs you may as well somehow negotiate with the package management. Though I guess you've already tried doing it :) |
| 05:47.49 | psycho_oreos | 7GB is enough? you're planning to install every package from the extras-devel repository? :D |
| 05:47.52 | jiero | well. font is more like document... |
| 05:49.11 | jiero | psycho_oreos: 7GB because everything in ~/ need it except ~/MyDocs and I heard a best Linux partition must remain 1/4 space unused. |
| 05:49.31 | psycho_oreos | font on the filesystem is still known as a file :) the operating system doesn't really differentiate between a document and a regular file. They only care for few specific things namely: fifo, block devices, character devices, regular files, etc |
| 05:50.28 | jiero | psycho_oreos: here is the differences, font should go ~/MyDocs rather than go system folder... unless its not safe. |
| 05:51.35 | jiero | to use that, I need root..... root somehow need password, omg, i completely failed to learn linux. |
| 05:51.41 | psycho_oreos | jiero, I think you're technically misunderstanding things :) /home/user is whatever you store for your own need (and you want it to reside in ext3 rather than fat) apart from that /home/user is also used by programs which store intermediate files (such as personal preferences, score tables, etc). However /home/user shares the same partition as /opt which is regularly used by programs that would otherwise hog the rootfs |
| 05:52.34 | psycho_oreos | or rather you could relocate the font directory to /opt and probably symlink it. Not that I would have tried that method but that might be an alternative |
| 05:53.53 | jiero | psycho_oreos: I think font is my own need rather than system need... |
| 05:54.24 | Termana | good morning |
| 05:54.58 | psycho_oreos | jiero, well the system would need it if you set any programs to depend on it |
| 05:55.00 | psycho_oreos | hi |
| 05:55.45 | jiero | good morning |
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| 08:19.10 | robbiethe1st | So... I just got my first N900 replacement OEM/knockoff case. |
| 08:19.41 | psycho_oreos | impressions?ã;) |
| 08:19.47 | robbiethe1st | It's actually quite interesting: They evidently bought/copied the original moulds: The pieces are *exact*, down to the ID numbers built into it. |
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| 08:20.20 | robbiethe1st | However, that's *all* they got: Anything with stamped letters(like the keyboard) evidently had new stamps made, which... aren't quite as good. |
| 08:20.44 | robbiethe1st | The letters are thicker, and someone made a mistake: instead of a blue $, there's a blue S |
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| 08:21.16 | robbiethe1st | Also, the two magnets in the back piece are missing, along with the black/white squares on the camera slider. |
| 08:21.59 | robbiethe1st | The slider itself, however, is perfectly made. everything looks great, feels great. |
| 08:22.49 | psycho_oreos | I compared the blue $ on both keyboards (one being original keypad to my newer N900, the other, a replacement keypad I bought in China for my older N900). They look exactly the same except the material used on both were different. The newer N900 is more of a matte type keypad as opposed to the glossy look/feel of the Chinese clone |
| 08:23.42 | psycho_oreos | yeah the insides of the backplates for the clone looked really funny. I saw a photo of that the other day with a manufacturer selling a clone N900 (which of course wasn't running maemo at all) |
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| 08:24.57 | robbiethe1st | Let me upload a pic |
| 08:25.18 | robbiethe1st | http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/n900-replacement-back.jpeg |
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| 08:25.35 | robbiethe1st | One undernieth is the original, one on top is the replacement. |
| 08:26.05 | robbiethe1st | The material on the new one is slightly more "grainy"/matte, versus the original one which reflected more |
| 08:26.17 | psycho_oreos | lol that knockoff case is a dramatic improvement to the knockoff N900 that I saw |
| 08:26.36 | robbiethe1st | Evidently, yea |
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| 08:28.31 | robbiethe1st | see the front: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/n900-new-back-missing-magnets.jpeg |
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| 08:37.06 | jiero | is there still a way let N900 become a bluetooth speaker? |
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| 08:42.45 | robbiethe1st | jiero: Yes. I don't know how, though |
| 08:43.34 | psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/346983266/for_Nokia_N900_Keypad_black_Colour.html <--- similar if not exact same as the one Iãbought when I was in China. afaik its an exact clone except its not matte finish |
| 08:44.45 | psycho_oreos | is crawling through alibaba for that fake N900 to get the photo of poorly mimicked back cover |
| 08:44.53 | jiero | psycho_oreos: o, you been China before:| what do you think about our people.:D |
| 08:45.20 | psycho_oreos | jiero, err ok I suppose |
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| 08:45.47 | jiero | psycho_oreos: mind I ask where you from? |
| 08:46.14 | psycho_oreos | really shifty when you're the foreigner trying to buy stuff from them, they try to raise the price of what it was worth originally |
| 08:46.28 | jiero | robbiethe1st: thanks. |
| 08:46.38 | psycho_oreos | jiero, was born in .tw, now in .au |
| 08:46.49 | jiero | psycho_oreos: I understood. |
| 08:47.09 | jiero | psycho_oreos: no wonder, Im Chinese from mainland in Au as well. |
| 08:47.52 | jiero | ok, my English grammar was wrong. |
| 08:48.21 | psycho_oreos | jiero, I was lucky to have me old man, he was able to negotiate with mainland Chinese people or otherwise I'd have to pay things through my nose |
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| 08:48.29 | Termana | All you foreigners coming in to invade our land. |
| 08:48.43 | Termana | Doesn't sound like us Australians at all... |
| 08:48.45 | Termana | :p |
| 08:48.54 | psycho_oreos | you invaded aboriginies land, don't forget :p |
| 08:49.03 | Termana | :P |
| 08:49.23 | jiero | well. I hope all country become one. :D |
| 08:49.58 | psycho_oreos | err that's a fairly vague/broad statement |
| 08:50.40 | jiero | dream to tell, statement to spread |
| 08:51.32 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
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| 08:52.56 | Termana | heh. |
| 08:52.58 | Termana | no one has a clue what you're saying, sorry. |
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| 08:57.01 | robbiethe1st | :D http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/439506879/N900.html |
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| 09:04.32 | psycho_oreos | http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/109188621/BRAND_NEW_Nokia_N900_BUY_2.html <--- lol yet another one (no that looks more like predecessors of N900) |
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| 09:04.42 | vi__ | hello |
| 09:05.09 | vi__ | I am trying to determine the dbus call to set the operator name |
| 09:06.10 | Juozapas | is there any safe way to remove default applications? |
| 09:06.49 | robbiethe1st | apt-get remove ...? |
| 09:06.57 | vi__ | dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone. |
| 09:06.57 | vi__ | net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net_operator_name_change string:"lol" |
| 09:07.10 | vi__ | it isnt this |
| 09:07.21 | vi__ | any suggestions? |
| 09:08.04 | psycho_oreos | if it were that simple, there wouldn't be any need for a custom operator name widget created by qwerty12 |
| 09:10.39 | Juozapas | robbiethe1st: i googled that may cause unstable system |
| 09:10.57 | robbiethe1st | Uh... No. Either it will work, or it won't if you remove the wrong thing. |
| 09:11.20 | vi__ | custom operator widget was so noobz didnt have to use xterm. |
| 09:11.25 | robbiethe1st | apt-get is the internal package manager; it will handle removing things correctly. |
| 09:11.26 | psycho_oreos | or if he doesn't know what he's removing/doing |
| 09:11.30 | vi__ | it is a simple dbus call |
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| 09:12.28 | vi__ | I suspect Q12 widget intercepted the the dbus call and replaced it with his own |
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| 09:24.12 | Juozapas | ok, so how i can get package name of program ? ex. "get started" program? |
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| 10:19.39 | ErwinJunge | Hi, anyone on here have experience using SDL_gles? |
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| 10:23.23 | psycho_oreos | Juozapas, with dpkg -l and some thinking |
| 10:23.38 | psycho_oreos | dpkg -L to verify afterwards as well |
| 10:24.10 | Mek | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:00.27 | godtrunks | why the n900 gps is working so slow |
| 11:00.42 | godtrunks | take me 20-30 min untill he find's a gps signal |
| 11:01.00 | godtrunks | i can do something about that? |
| 11:01.39 | godtrunks | so guys some help over here? |
| 11:03.15 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:04.22 | kerio | godtrunks: do you have a sim inside? |
| 11:04.36 | kerio | it just has to be inside, it doesn't even have to be registered to a network |
| 11:05.11 | godtrunks | yes |
| 11:05.20 | kerio | then wtf |
| 11:05.22 | godtrunks | i have a sim card inside |
| 11:05.26 | godtrunks | realy |
| 11:05.36 | godtrunks | i have sigyc mobile maps 2010 |
| 11:06.05 | godtrunks | with naftec maps |
| 11:06.34 | godtrunks | what shoud i do? |
| 11:07.00 | godtrunks | i have lot's of problems with it since i uninstall nitdroid gingerbread 3.2 |
| 11:07.32 | godtrunks | what shoud i do next? |
| 11:07.34 | godtrunks | any advice? |
| 11:09.30 | *** join/#maemo Oppo|n900 (~MrOpposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) |
| 11:11.28 | jiero | godtrunks: you are actually more luck than I am, I never find the signal |
| 11:11.39 | godtrunks | wtf? |
| 11:11.44 | godtrunks | why? |
| 11:11.57 | godtrunks | what i have to do now? |
| 11:12.00 | godtrunks | warranty? |
| 11:12.12 | godtrunks | give me another one? |
| 11:15.35 | DocScrutinizer | see /topic |
| 11:15.46 | godtrunks | i can't |
| 11:15.51 | godtrunks | i'n on web irc.. |
| 11:16.16 | godtrunks | ../toping is not working |
| 11:16.27 | *** join/#maemo user__ (~user@109.255.71.236) |
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| 11:21.11 | DocScrutinizer | reflash COMBINED, postpone restoring all your uebergeek apps, install location test GUI, insert SIM and register, go to a free place with free sight at sky, start location test, set to "user" (OWTTE) and wait, fon't move too much |
| 11:24.27 | DocScrutinizer | aah, and UPDATE!! GPS didn't realy work with old obsolete ootb OS versions |
| 11:26.03 | DocScrutinizer | and, if this wasn't obvious: never expect GPS to work indoors |
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| 11:29.31 | godtrunks | in a car mate not indor |
| 11:30.40 | DocScrutinizer | in a car is often worse than indoors. metalized windows |
| 11:31.29 | godtrunks | how about other gps devices? |
| 11:31.47 | godtrunks | bot with internet fing signal quick |
| 11:31.56 | godtrunks | bot with internet find signal quick |
| 11:32.11 | godtrunks | but with internet find signal quick |
| 11:34.58 | DocScrutinizer | other devices often have 10 times larger antenna, as they don't need GSM-4band plus 3G-3band, plus BT WLAN antenna, plus FMTX antenna |
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| 11:37.41 | villager | maybe they ought to go back to those retractable antennas sticking out of the phone |
| 11:39.14 | SpeedEvil | There are alterenatives to them sticking out of the phone. |
| 11:40.09 | robbiethe1st | villager: I'd be all for that... most of the time, you don |
| 11:40.14 | robbiethe1st | 't need it. But when you do... |
| 11:40.16 | SpeedEvil | http://www.movieline.com/images/hcyPLLe/hT6EJkL/xSz50LV/JDkQ/aliens_southpark.jpg |
| 11:41.26 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, my GPS on N900 been abysmal in the beginning, and after some sw-updates it's just awesome now, with SIM with GPRS/data |
| 11:42.23 | godtrunks | with a sim withot packet data |
| 11:42.48 | DocScrutinizer | depends |
| 11:42.49 | SpeedEvil | Only remaining issue for GPS for me is the lack of accurate geotagging. |
| 11:42.57 | DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps |
| 11:42.58 | infobot | hmm... rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP |
| 11:44.04 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: srill the frigging "last decimals always 0" issue? |
| 11:44.34 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 11:44.55 | DocScrutinizer | :-(((( |
| 11:46.20 | godtrunks | so the advide is to sw update? |
| 11:46.42 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 11:46.50 | SpeedEvil | If you're not on the latest firmware |
| 11:47.02 | godtrunks | y think i am |
| 11:47.10 | godtrunks | last update |
| 11:47.33 | SpeedEvil | Settings->about product - should show a version ending in 36-2 |
| 11:48.18 | DocScrutinizer | or having this sequene somewhere in the name |
| 11:49.46 | godtrunks | oke |
| 11:49.48 | godtrunks | thx |
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| 12:25.14 | psycho_oreos | looking at the internal pictures of the N900, the WLAN module does have hirose u.fl connected, but then there's two other components that has hirose u.fl connectors but I couldn't identify the chipsets. FM transmitter module is definitely not on that list of chipsets that has access to hirose u.fl as it seems to have its own small loop type antenna |
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| 12:33.47 | SpeedEvil | Waht are you trying to work otu psycho_oreos |
| 12:35.25 | psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, you know those test connectors on the pcb of the N900 itself. I've been trying to figure out what the other two test connectors were. I have figured out one of which is wlan module and just now looking at the schematics the other is GPSãreceiver. So now I'm debunking the third one. My rough guess is that it might be for Bluetooth |
| 12:35.43 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 12:36.48 | psycho_oreos | nevermind the third one is cellular test connector |
| 12:38.53 | ruskie | http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/microsoft_news/231300314 |
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| 12:40.58 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 12:41.21 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED | For Nokia: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 12:41.32 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 12:42.40 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis is also http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 12:42.40 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay |
| 12:42.45 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 12:43.29 | psycho_oreos | call me stupid but isn't BTFMãmodule the exact same module as BT itself? |
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| 12:44.08 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 12:44.10 | SpeedEvil | It does both |
| 12:44.17 | SpeedEvil | FMTX is a seperate chipset |
| 12:44.27 | psycho_oreos | that's what I thought.. hmm now to find that chipset from the pictures |
| 12:44.28 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, nice one ;) |
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| 12:44.40 | psycho_oreos | yeah FMTXãis the clip on PCB type chip |
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| 12:44.57 | SpeedEvil | Err - what? |
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| 12:45.17 | SpeedEvil | It's a small LGA IIRC |
| 12:45.22 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe QFN |
| 12:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: please rephrase |
| 12:46.45 | psycho_oreos | The FM signal is transmitted from a loop antenna built into the case, and connected to the PCB with clips. <---- http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter |
| 12:47.20 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 12:47.33 | SpeedEvil | That's just the antenna |
| 12:47.37 | DocScrutinizer | almost correct, though it's not actually a loop antenna afaik |
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| 12:48.08 | psycho_oreos | looking at the photos available, FMTXãchip is identified via the little weird wire thing on the underside of the screen but on the PCB itself it appears with the FCCãinternal photos there's the missing module where FMTX is supposed to be |
| 12:48.39 | DocScrutinizer | err wut? |
| 12:48.40 | psycho_oreos | hmm wait maybe not where the screen might be |
| 12:48.41 | SpeedEvil | There are actual photos of purchased units |
| 12:50.37 | psycho_oreos | yeah I've seen one of those purchased units pulled apart with all the photos. Just for a beginner like me its not easy to look for which chip on the phsical PCB board is exactly what :) |
| 12:50.48 | psycho_oreos | s/phsical/physical/ |
| 12:50.57 | DocScrutinizer | psy go to schematics, ^F"fm transmitter" -->> find a hit on p.8 and learn fmtx chip is N6180 |
| 12:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: ^^^ |
| 12:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | search for N6180 on p.16 to find it is located in quadrant G7 |
| 12:52.36 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, thanks, schematics doesn't really help me all that much in terms of comparing that with actual photo of the PCB. I guess I'll just have to dive deeper |
| 12:52.43 | DocScrutinizer | search quadrant G7 for that chip labeled N6180 |
| 12:52.50 | psycho_oreos | ahh! |
| 12:54.34 | DocScrutinizer | once you learned to spot the chip, you go to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/ to see if you can read the actual printing on the chip in my super-highres scans |
| 12:54.45 | psycho_oreos | thanks! *slaps forehead* this/these pages are also the same pages I've been looking for in comparison with what was noted here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic and potentially here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Additional_Hardware |
| 12:55.34 | psycho_oreos | page 16 was extremely helpful :D at least I don't have to guess with exactly which chip goes where |
| 12:56.36 | psycho_oreos | also the wiki should probably be updated :) you no longer have your high res images at people.openmoko.org ;) or at least its accessible from my end |
| 12:56.54 | psycho_oreos | s/accessible/inaccessible/ |
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| 12:58.29 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: the server is down, and afaik I updated the wiki to include the alternative addr several months ago |
| 12:58.47 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/ IS accessable |
| 12:59.33 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, no no I meant: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900 at http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic#cite_note-high_resolution_scans-0 |
| 12:59.45 | DocScrutinizer | and has some nice additional scans of unpopulated bare PCB |
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| 13:02.00 | psycho_oreos | ok link fixed on that hardware schematic site :) |
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| 13:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | hah |
| 13:06.34 | DocScrutinizer | mediawiki is darn smart, it didn't even throw a warning :-D |
| 13:06.53 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
| 13:07.38 | Amorphous | hi. does anyone know of a way to get the data of a n900 (stock bootloader+os) without a working screen? |
| 13:07.53 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=N900_Hardware_Schematic&diff=44798&oldid=44377 |
| 13:08.06 | Amorphous | something like an undocumented switch for the flasher or something like that? |
| 13:08.22 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=N900_Hardware_Schematic&diff=next&oldid=44798 |
| 13:08.28 | psycho_oreos | Amorphous, tried using TV out cable? |
| 13:08.38 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I.E. my edit was exactly same as your edit |
| 13:08.39 | Amorphous | ooh good idea |
| 13:09.30 | DocScrutinizer | actually no, it added a / |
| 13:09.33 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, except you had a forward slash at the end of your link :D lol oh well |
| 13:09.36 | psycho_oreos | yeah |
| 13:11.20 | DocScrutinizer | so wiki isn't smart, it's not even *noticing* my edit based on a version that got changed from opening the edit page to saving it |
| 13:12.35 | DocScrutinizer | thought I've seen such "your source changed, can't save your edits" warnings |
| 13:14.39 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe it IS extremely smart, detecting the edit I try to save doesn't conflict with the most recent version of the page, though my edit been based on an older "obsolete" version of the page |
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| 13:14.49 | psycho_oreos | I think in such cases the wiki itself would probably try to differentiate where exactly the source has been changed.. i.e. if I tried to change your link to some other link whilst you changed it back to your proper link, it may show that warning. Probably because on the same link that I used to replace on yours in which you later overwrote with a proper link. |
| 13:15.04 | psycho_oreos | yeah |
| 13:16.34 | psycho_oreos | see if I changed from your old site to google.com for instance on that wikipage for the link to your high res photos but at the very same time you have an older revision of the wiki that still points to your old site. If you tried to change that old link to the current link whilst I've already saved that wiki page for your link as google.com it would have shown you a warning I bet ;) |
| 13:16.58 | SpeedEvil | suffers from a stack overflow. |
| 13:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | suffers from E_caffeine_low |
| 13:17.49 | DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 â |
| 13:18.16 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: seen the cartoon? |
| 13:18.20 | psycho_oreos | segmentation fault |
| 13:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 13:18.35 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | wolfgang used it on this very nice qi-hw news page: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Copyleft_Hardware_News_2011-08-08 |
| 13:35.04 | psycho_oreos | is it just me or does BTFM uses the same antenna as WLAN? I can sort of relate to the schematics FMãis actually wired to 3.5mm stereo jack but what about the BT part? does the TX_CONFX/RF_ACTIVE/STATUS part means something to do with BT transreceiving? |
| 13:35.48 | dm8tbr | n900 is a wl1251? |
| 13:36.06 | psycho_oreos | wl1251b |
| 13:36.42 | dm8tbr | at least the wl1271 uses the same antenna for BT and WLAN. better drivers have coexistence features where both BT and WLAN won't try to TX at the same time |
| 13:37.26 | psycho_oreos | I thought wl1271 combines wlan, fm and possibly even bt together on a single chip? :) |
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| 13:38.28 | ErwinJunge | psycho_oreos: What are you trying to do that you need all this hw info? (I don't have info, just wondering) |
| 13:39.54 | psycho_oreos | ErwinJunge, been pondering the idea of modding my N900, going to try to push it to its limits (no not overclocking). Though as of this point, I'm only curiously pondering and keeping it in my mind until I have some sort of financial backing to do some real modding :) |
| 13:40.03 | ErwinJunge | Also, anyone on who has any experience using SDL_gles? I'm trying to port the darkplaces engine to N900, and it kind of works, but I get 2 screens where I should get one. One has the proper title but is black, the other shows the game menu but has title "unknown" |
| 13:40.48 | ErwinJunge | psycho_oreos, could you elaborate a bit? What kind of modding do you mean to push it to its limits? |
| 13:42.07 | psycho_oreos | ErwinJunge, the funny thing you see here is, the N900 has 3 hirose u.fl connectors. These are for wlan, cellular and GPS. If lets say I drill some small holes on the actual N900 PCB, have adapters to convert hirose u.fl to RP-SMA and have three RP-SMAãheads sticking out on the back. Attaching right antennas for each of those I gain signal boost :) |
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| 13:43.27 | ErwinJunge | Sounds cool, you live in the middle of nowhere? :) Living in the Netherlands, I can't really envision a use for that, other than awesomeness-factor. |
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| 13:44.44 | psycho_oreos | the second thing I'm looking at is to see if there's an antenna connector somewhere for the bluetooth module as I wouldn't want it to be a leech and suck on wlan's connectivity. Maybe even modding the fm transmitter to have external antenna could be possible. Last but not least, was looking at gyroscope/compass that other's have pointed out. I can see there's a bit of space within the front side of N900 (looking at the PCB board of course) maybe some sort |
| 13:44.45 | psycho_oreos | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:45.38 | psycho_oreos | ErwinJunge, wouldn't really say in the middle of nowhere but if I can turn this into a living reality, it would be really nice to have a device sticking out differently from the crowd :) |
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| 13:46.38 | ErwinJunge | Compass sounds interesting. Is a thing I found surprising that it didn't have tbh |
| 13:47.10 | ErwinJunge | Just having an N900 doesn't make you stand out enough? It's not really the most popular phone ever ;) |
| 13:47.47 | psycho_oreos | I mean notably with wl1251 being open sourced, and having wifi pentesting tool such as aircrack-ng working with it. If you have lets say a 5dbi antenna attached, you could pick up APs from further distances. GPS issues? well with antenna attached it'll be able to pick up satellites more easily.. cellular issues? with external antenna you'll probably be able to still obtain signals even though you seem to be in the middle of nowhere |
| 13:48.33 | psycho_oreos | well I admit having N900 would probably stand out (especially if you have kept the device for awhile) but one thing that annoys me with so many small avenues like these that are made possible, why not try to exploit them? |
| 13:48.48 | ErwinJunge | All true, it does broaden the applicability of the device. |
| 13:49.49 | psycho_oreos | I see some people making 3000mAH batteries, Iãsee some people making small little amps to boost their stereos |
| 13:49.59 | ErwinJunge | More of a software guy myself (I suck at using manual tools), but this sounds cool :) Good luck with it. Do you plan on offering modding service to other people as well? |
| 13:50.52 | psycho_oreos | heh thanks, as for offering service I probably won't :)ãnot that I'm any good with modding myself nor can I guarentee your device would be ok after its modded |
| 13:51.13 | psycho_oreos | I may however if Iãdo decide to eventually modify mine, I will make a documentation for it. |
| 13:51.16 | ErwinJunge | Too bad, I might actually be interested :) |
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| 13:52.07 | psycho_oreos | well I can't see how the other two mobs that modded their N900 in their own ways would be happy to mod yours or anyone else's ;) I can't see why the same logic doesn't apply here |
| 13:52.50 | ErwinJunge | Too many negatives in that sentence, I don't get what you mean :) |
| 13:53.31 | ErwinJunge | Anyways, apparantly noone here has used SDL_gles :( |
| 13:53.57 | psycho_oreos | the people who did hardware modifications on their N900 (i.e. 3000mAH battery hack, amp hack) didn't say they'll provide service to modify anyone else's device. No? :) |
| 13:55.11 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure simply put. If people are really desperate to modify their own device, they would do it themselves rather than paying someone else to do it and giving the other party grief when things don't work |
| 13:55.55 | ErwinJunge | Well, giving the other party grief doesn't make sense :) I'd approach it more in a "you have less chance of screwing this up than I do" kind of way. |
| 13:56.50 | ErwinJunge | If I try to modify my device, I run a 100% risk of completely destroying it. If you get it to work on yours, the risk is at least lower than 100% ;) |
| 13:56.51 | psycho_oreos | more like as in, `hey! I paid you to modify my device but now it doesn't work! why? I want my money back! you broke my device!' |
| 13:57.46 | ErwinJunge | I understand, it's just not really the kind of contract you'd expect for these kind of services. A "no guarantees" thing makes a lot more sense. Modding is inherantly risky. |
| 13:57.56 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure you could hire any electrician or a reliable hobbyist to do the job of modding your device :) |
| 13:58.06 | ErwinJunge | I'd be paying for a reduction of risk, not removal of risk. |
| 13:58.33 | ErwinJunge | True |
| 13:58.53 | ErwinJunge | Would come with the same "no guarantees" thing though ;) |
| 13:58.58 | psycho_oreos | yup but many don't realise that.. its quite evident on tmo threads that there's lots and lots of newbs out there who just doesn't have a clue about anything and they're the ones that will give you woes if you offer them services in which they may regret later in life |
| 13:59.24 | psycho_oreos | not really, they'll still bicker even if you said that |
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| 14:01.33 | ErwinJunge | True :) I understand why you'd be hesitant to offer services. |
| 14:01.36 | psycho_oreos | at any rate I intend to first add those 3 antennas in, they seem to be the easiest of the lot when it comes to modding |
| 14:02.00 | ErwinJunge | Sounds awesome. Where would they stick out of the body? |
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| 14:03.31 | psycho_oreos | from the rear would be ideal, though there's other thoughts that circulated around my head, such as if one uses 3000mAHãbattery mod with a mugen back cover, they maybe able to easily mod that back cover to incorporate three holes for RP-SMA. |
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| 14:04.18 | ErwinJunge | And then run cables around the battery? |
| 14:04.49 | psycho_oreos | Then there's the thought of custom back cover which would be something like a mixture of nokia's stock back cover plus mugen's back cover.. with bigger kick stand and proper camera door, etc |
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| 14:06.39 | psycho_oreos | nah, been looking at the backside of the N900 and I can see it looks like there is some sort of lump on the plastic part (once you remove the back cover of course). I was thinking of drilling holes there and having three RP-SMA heads sticking out. Obviously I wouldn't want to use extra long hirose u.fl -> RP-SMAãas that would defeat the purpose as well as making a mess |
| 14:06.49 | ErwinJunge | Hmm.. do you have a blog/forum thread/wiki/anything else that I can follow? |
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| 14:07.55 | psycho_oreos | currently no, these are only speculations on my head. If I were serious about it I'd probably blog/forum thread it, especially if I'm going to proceed doing what I have said. Right now these are just imaginations and I won't be able to do them in the near future until my finance approves |
| 14:08.06 | psycho_oreos | s/on my/in my/ |
| 14:08.49 | psycho_oreos | gawd.. I fail.. s/finance approves/finances improves/ |
| 14:09.38 | ErwinJunge | Cool that infobot actually applies the substitute on the last message :) |
| 14:10.16 | psycho_oreos | indeed but only if you specify the substitution as the first parameter |
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| 14:11.19 | psycho_oreos | anyhow, I don't plan to keep anyone interested :) I don't want to hold empty promises nor do I care if someone copied my idea right here and now and used it for their own good. |
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| 14:14.14 | ErwinJunge | Clear. Still sounds awesome, so good luck with it. I hope it'll work :) What kind of finances would you need for a project like this? |
| 14:15.42 | psycho_oreos | adapters (hirose u.fl -> RP-SMA) of specific lengths (which needs to be measured), specific drill bits and drill of course |
| 14:16.23 | psycho_oreos | I think I already have the right screw heads to undo the screws on the backside of N900, the rest of other mods require soldering tools, flux, etc |
| 14:19.15 | psycho_oreos | lcuk, ping |
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| 14:22.53 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: BT and WLAN share one antenna, and one hirose connector |
| 14:23.20 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: no, drilling holes into the PCB is *no* good idea |
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| 14:23.46 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, FFS! damn parasite BT for sharing same antenna as WLAN |
| 14:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | I don't see the problem |
| 14:24.28 | psycho_oreos | well yeah though I was looking at empty PCBãspots and I thought there was an area where I can drill holes (after comparing both pictures) it seems to be blank area |
| 14:24.57 | psycho_oreos | well it is a problem if for example you're using rfmon with wlan and you're listening to music through bt headphones |
| 14:25.03 | DocScrutinizer | forget it, there are no "blank areas" on a 7 layer PCB |
| 14:25.15 | psycho_oreos | bah :/ |
| 14:26.07 | psycho_oreos | so other ways would be to have cable going around the PCB, i.e. where there are gaps for buttons, and stylus pen for instance |
| 14:26.17 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: so what's the difference with BT getting killed by WLAN when they share one antenna, compared to a situation where a dedicated WLAN antenna interferes and kills BT on the dedicated BT antenna nearby? |
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| 14:27.00 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: same shit |
| 14:27.09 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: transmitter is slightly simpler though |
| 14:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: see backscroll for context |
| 14:27.48 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: psycho_oreos wants to separate BT and WLAN antenna to fix an unfixable issue |
| 14:28.23 | DocScrutinizer | actually it *is* fixable and *got fixed*, by hw coexistence |
| 14:28.28 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, its more like WLAN gets interference from BT when its in RFMON mode. Though if both had separate antennas and lets say that I add antennas and place them elsewhere (not within 1 metre radius) it wouldn't be of an issue as compared to having them both together |
| 14:28.51 | DocScrutinizer | nonsesne |
| 14:29.17 | psycho_oreos | well, in the case that I've examined of hw coexistance via lxp's bleeding-edge drivers, it wasn't fixed. It was still showing the same issue |
| 14:29.21 | DocScrutinizer | exactly the same, unless you place your BT antenna further away than the peer's wlan antenna |
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| 14:30.15 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: you evidently have a odd idea of how bt/wlan interference and coexistence work |
| 14:30.20 | psycho_oreos | but in either case none of this would be possible if both share the exact same antenna anyway :) its not like you could place BT and WLAN antenna at like 1 km apart :) |
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| 14:31.08 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, *shrugs* from the way I see it, there's no real proper coexistance :) they both operate on the similar frequency (2.4GHz) |
| 14:31.13 | DocScrutinizer | BT and WLAN share one frequency. period. |
| 14:32.21 | DocScrutinizer | there's absolutely no way to make them work concurrently in same geographic area, without separating domains by RF-tight walls |
| 14:32.56 | DocScrutinizer | coexistence manages some sort of round-robbing tdma |
| 14:33.07 | DocScrutinizer | aka scheduling |
| 14:33.32 | DocScrutinizer | this doesn't mean you cured the basic immanent problem |
| 14:33.39 | psycho_oreos | which wouldn't work in the case of one having wlan in rfmon mode and bt paired and sending data to another device |
| 14:34.03 | DocScrutinizer | it can not work |
| 14:34.18 | ShadowJK | actually BT2 has AFH, which excludes the most noisiest channels from the frequency hopping list. I've seen my E75 avoid my wlan frequency when I start pushing lots of data over wlan |
| 14:35.13 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: psycho_oreos talks about "passive" wlan in monitor mode, scanning whole band I guess. BT will *always* interfere with that |
| 14:35.40 | psycho_oreos | which was precisely my problem. Though little did I know that you had to separate WLAN and BT miles apart in order to have them work concurrently for a simple issue |
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| 14:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | and separating antennae by 1, 2, 5m doesn't help either |
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| 14:37.59 | psycho_oreos | wlan operates on a smaller spectrum than bt but in either case its inevitable that both of them overlaps each other |
| 14:38.12 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: if you want to use your speaker box for microphone (which of course would theoretically work), then it won't help if you get a 2nd speaker 1m away playing your heavy metal @ 110dBm, you still can't record the dialog of two guys 10m away while the box is shouting your heavy metal sound |
| 14:39.25 | jacekowski | well, if you make channels smaller |
| 14:39.38 | jacekowski | and avoid using same frequency for bt and wlan at the same time |
| 14:39.40 | psycho_oreos | or lower the TX power of bt |
| 14:39.41 | jacekowski | it could work |
| 14:39.49 | jacekowski | but recievers would have to be bit more selective |
| 14:40.08 | DocScrutinizer | quite obviously it's incredibly hard to impossible to use the box that plays heavy metal to do the microphone also record audio other than heavy metal (the bt and wlan share one antenna case) - but separating it into 2 boxes and placing them 2 meters apart doesn't really better things |
| 14:40.40 | jacekowski | directional antennas |
| 14:41.04 | psycho_oreos | that'd work to a lesser point :) but still I guess I'm at a loss |
| 14:41.06 | DocScrutinizer | hell, simply switch off your friggin heavy metal music aka BT when you want to record faint dialogs aka WLAN scan |
| 14:41.36 | jacekowski | never switch off heavy metal |
| 14:42.53 | ShadowJK | bt normally spams entire 2.4G band :) |
| 14:42.58 | DocScrutinizer | BT and WLAN use same frequency and thus are immanently incompatible technologies |
| 14:43.18 | psycho_oreos | better yet, if two or more devices wants to share one internet connection from one device through bt and invariably PAN whilst monitoring wlan traffic, the situation is not viable by any means. Maybe the next step is USB network? maybe even communicating through stereo jack? :) |
| 14:43.22 | ShadowJK | unless it detects strong interference on one channel, it'll avoid that channel until interference goes away |
| 14:46.36 | jacekowski | use 5Ghz wifi |
| 14:46.46 | jacekowski | and 2.4GHz bty |
| 14:46.51 | jacekowski | solution! |
| 14:47.48 | psycho_oreos | not in the case of wl1251 :) |
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| 14:48.22 | psycho_oreos | the only exception is attaching a USBãwireless dongle capable of operating 802.11a bands |
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| 14:51.35 | jacekowski | well, if you have single chip doing bt and wlan or cooperating chips |
| 14:51.48 | jacekowski | you could probably make them to try transmitting on different channels |
| 14:52.40 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: different to WHAT? for rfmon wlan scanning |
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| 14:53.38 | jacekowski | i mean if it's single chip you could probably add dsp and filter out current bt transmission |
| 14:53.43 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: for normal "concurrent" use of WLAN and BT data transfer there is coexistence already |
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| 14:53.56 | jacekowski | but costs would be much higher |
| 14:54.05 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It doesn't work |
| 14:54.19 | jacekowski | it does work |
| 14:54.22 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: The transmitted signal is some billions of times stronger than the recieved. |
| 14:54.50 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: The minute reflections from the transmitter and changes in its environment will utterly swamp the inbound signal |
| 14:54.50 | jacekowski | wireless collision detection works on similiar principle |
| 14:54.55 | DocScrutinizer | will introduce TIM noise that can't get dsp'ed out |
| 14:55.11 | SpeedEvil | Wireless collision detection doesn't work like that. |
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| 14:55.20 | jacekowski | not exactly like that |
| 14:55.24 | SpeedEvil | It has a listen for other transmitters while not transmitting phase. |
| 14:55.26 | jacekowski | it looks for unexpected signals |
| 14:55.40 | jacekowski | even when transmitting |
| 14:55.42 | DocScrutinizer | during mute periods, yes |
| 14:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | NO not during TX |
| 14:55.55 | DocScrutinizer | you can not do this |
| 14:55.58 | SpeedEvil | You cannot listen for signals on the same frequecy during TX |
| 14:56.10 | SpeedEvil | With hardware foind in a phone. |
| 14:56.30 | DocScrutinizer | not even with hw worth k$ |
| 14:56.31 | SpeedEvil | It is sort-of-possible in some other cases with large fixed antennas. |
| 14:56.52 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, that's how 10base2 works |
| 14:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | pff |
| 14:57.02 | SpeedEvil | 10base2 is not wifi. |
| 14:57.10 | jacekowski | and wifi is similiar |
| 14:57.18 | DocScrutinizer | not at all |
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| 14:57.21 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It's really, really not. |
| 14:57.41 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It's similar in the same way that constructing a tree from playdough and from DNA is similar. |
| 14:58.08 | SpeedEvil | 10base2 transmits a constant voltage on the line, which can be sensed, just before sending the real signal. |
| 14:58.43 | DocScrutinizer | on a wire like 10B2 you know your local RX is seeing "the same" as the far end RX. On OTA RF this definitely doesn't apply |
| 14:59.12 | SpeedEvil | With 10base2, the signal you are detecting is at the same voltage as the signal you're sending. |
| 14:59.23 | SpeedEvil | With wifi, it is literally often billions of times weaker. |
| 14:59.38 | DocScrutinizer | so when I send a signal over a wire and my local RX doesn't receive what I've sent, I detect a collision |
| 14:59.42 | ShadowJK | vaguely remembers some researches recently announcing a breakthrough in receive-while-transmitting |
| 14:59.51 | DocScrutinizer | do that with a RF transciever ;-P |
| 15:00.21 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: There is lots of poorly understood press-releases in this area. |
| 15:00.36 | SpeedEvil | Slashdot recently picked up one that's reinvented the phased array transmitter. |
| 15:00.41 | SpeedEvil | Badly. |
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| 15:02.29 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: also all those csma/cd technologies rely on a wired-or properity of the medium |
| 15:03.11 | DocScrutinizer | which isn't given for simple over-the-air RF transmission schemens |
| 15:03.12 | SpeedEvil | The nasty fundamental problem of shared wireless is that you can interfere with signals you can't quite demofulate. |
| 15:03.17 | SpeedEvil | demodulate |
| 15:03.24 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
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| 15:03.50 | DocScrutinizer | the normal case even |
| 15:04.09 | SpeedEvil | This is somewhat fixe by 60GHz, as distant transmitters that you cannot pick up can be vasrly reduce, as they are absorbed by air. |
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| 15:16.51 | Scifig | Can anyone please test and vote for my application in extras-testing? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/marketstoday/0.3-2maemo5/ |
| 15:17.24 | Scifig | Application details are here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73120. |
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| 17:13.48 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, I'm working with SDL_gles to port darkplaces to N900, could I ask you a few questions? |
| 17:14.00 | javispedro | yes |
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| 17:15.32 | ErwinJunge | Should I use SDL_SWSURFACE or SDL_HWSURFACE in SDL_SetVideoMode? |
| 17:15.59 | javispedro | doesn't matter. if the original used HWSURFACE, leave as is, otherwise use SWSURFACE. |
| 17:16.17 | javispedro | (both are the same thing for the Maemo SDL) |
| 17:16.22 | ErwinJunge | Original used OPENGL, which made it look for libGL |
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| 17:16.38 | ErwinJunge | Which of course didn't really work ;) |
| 17:16.49 | ErwinJunge | phone, brb |
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| 17:17.19 | Itschue | moin moin can anyone help me to get zoom function in angry birds rio i play this with preenv wizhout webosgamesmanager |
| 17:17.29 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: you should be aware that neither version of OpenGL ES has all the functionality OpenGL has. |
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| 17:24.54 | Itschue | hello |
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| 18:22.12 | Goliath23 | hi |
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| 18:22.29 | Goliath23 | I try to make a small change on a meamo project of mine since user requested it. |
| 18:22.36 | Goliath23 | however, I can not push |
| 18:22.44 | Goliath23 | I always get: error: unable to create temporary sha1 filename ./objects/6c: File exists |
| 18:23.14 | Goliath23 | what's this? I already tried re-cloning the wc, but it didn't help. seems to be a server issue? |
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| 18:36.49 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, back, was a long phonecall |
| 18:38.26 | ErwinJunge | I'm aware that neither version of GLES has the functionality that OpenGL has. That's also not what I meant :) Darkplaces was already ported to GLES2 to use on the iPhone. I meant the original used SDL_OPENGL instead of either SDL_HWSURFACE or SDL_SWSURFACE |
| 18:38.49 | Juozapas | how to use apt-get with * symbol? ex i want to remove mahjong game: apt-get remove *mahjong |
| 18:39.00 | Juozapas | it returns syntax error |
| 18:39.02 | ErwinJunge | Which led to the version of SDL included with the N900 to want to load libGL.so.1, which failed (logically) |
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| 18:40.04 | ErwinJunge | So which does Maemo SDL use internally? SW_SURFACE or HW_SURFACE? |
| 18:40.44 | ErwinJunge | It would be nice to put the right one in the code directly, just for clarity |
| 18:41.10 | javispedro | SWSURFACE=0 |
| 18:41.15 | javispedro | so nothing=SWSURFACE ;) |
| 18:41.32 | javispedro | internally, only SWSURFACE Is used. |
| 18:45.12 | ErwinJunge | Great, thanks |
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| 18:56.39 | SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/6018518751/in/photostream |
| 18:56.44 | SpeedEvil | I need to take a better pic |
| 18:57.35 | javispedro | ponders about SDL_HWSURFACE and XRender |
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| 19:07.47 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, I seem to be inadvertently opening 2 screens, where I want only 1. |
| 19:07.56 | javispedro | ? |
| 19:08.17 | ErwinJunge | 1 screen has the correct title, but stays black, the other screen has title "unknown" but has the actual menu content of the game |
| 19:08.28 | ErwinJunge | Ever heard of this happening before? |
| 19:08.29 | javispedro | you mean windows |
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| 19:08.41 | ErwinJunge | Yeah, sorry |
| 19:08.43 | javispedro | are you changing between fullscreen and windowed mode? |
| 19:08.49 | peterbjornx | hello everyone |
| 19:09.13 | ErwinJunge | I might be... (still learning the code). Could that be the reason if I am? |
| 19:09.38 | peterbjornx | i messed up on my n900 |
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| 19:09.52 | peterbjornx | i kinda nuked the /usr/lib library directory |
| 19:10.14 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: on the SetVideoMode call add SDL_FULLSCREEN to flags, and remove any other call that toggles Fullscreen mode |
| 19:10.24 | lcuk | peterbjornx, so reflash? |
| 19:10.26 | peterbjornx | i had been on windows too long and assumed CP would ask for permission to replace files |
| 19:10.28 | peterbjornx | i cannot |
| 19:10.44 | peterbjornx | it doesnt get to USB icon |
| 19:11.01 | javispedro | nuking the /usr/lib directory doesn't cause again, so "try harder" =) |
| 19:11.04 | peterbjornx | i think init itself crashes or something very early in the init process |
| 19:11.07 | javispedro | s/cause again/cause that/ |
| 19:11.23 | lcuk | power down, remove battery, insert usb cable, start flasher until it says "cannot find device", insert battery. |
| 19:11.24 | lcuk | try that |
| 19:12.00 | peterbjornx | ok |
| 19:12.39 | peterbjornx | i feared the worst as i have seen from the bootmenu code that the flasher device-end code appeared to be a linux program and not part of the bootloader |
| 19:12.41 | lcuk | never sees usb icon or presses keys because device is always upside down |
| 19:14.27 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, if I call SetVideoMode multiple times, I have to set SDL_FULLSCREEN everytime, right? Or is it a toggle? |
| 19:14.45 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: everytime. but, why are you calling it multiple times? |
| 19:15.50 | ErwinJunge | I'm not sure if it actually is called multiple times :) If SDL_VIDEORESIZE is ever emitted, it is called. |
| 19:15.55 | ErwinJunge | Does Maemo ever emit that? |
| 19:17.10 | ErwinJunge | Also, the engine might recreate the screen when starting the actual game (and thus exiting the menu). Starting the game makes the extra screen vanish. |
| 19:20.08 | ErwinJunge | s/screen/window/ |
| 19:20.14 | ErwinJunge | s/screen/window/g |
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| 19:31.59 | peterbjornx | Icuk, without the U key it didnt stay in update mode but just crashed, but while pressing U key it worked |
| 19:31.59 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you know NOLO is waiting for some magic chars on USB, on boot, for detecting flasher waiting. It does this for a really short period of time, unless you hold 'u' key. You also are aware that on some machines flasher spts out its never ending sequence of magic incantations to invoke NOLO flashing more in a somewhat slowed down way? Bottom line: it's not completely useless to suggest holding 'u', even when users do the battery shuffle |
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| 19:32.32 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, then you tell him to :P |
| 19:32.43 | peterbjornx | i did lol |
| 19:32.46 | peterbjornx | and it worked |
| 19:33.09 | DocScrutinizer | premium timing X-D |
| 19:33.19 | peterbjornx | can i upgrade firmware without flashing the eMMC |
| 19:33.25 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 19:33.49 | lcuk | lol |
| 19:33.59 | peterbjornx | ok , might have been a dumb question but i just wanted to be sure |
| 19:34.24 | Sicelo | hmm. my keypad lights go on & off for no apparent reason, with extra screen brightness each time keypdad lights switch off |
| 19:34.39 | peterbjornx | all kb lights? |
| 19:34.58 | peterbjornx | or just lower left and right corners |
| 19:35.15 | Sicelo | yeah, whole keypad |
| 19:35.18 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: ambient light sensor |
| 19:36.00 | peterbjornx | i hated that thing on the N8 i had for a short while |
| 19:36.08 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: cover upper left corner of display frame in landscape, and see kbd bl switch on |
| 19:36.38 | peterbjornx | wasnt possible to set screen to full brightness permanently on that piece of **** |
| 19:36.45 | peterbjornx | but now i have a N900 again |
| 19:36.54 | Sicelo | i used to think it was ALS. but is that expected to happen even when ambient light level is constant? |
| 19:37.01 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: (sorry for delay) SDL_VIDEORESIZE might be emitted, but I suggest ignoring it on Maemo; just open fullscreen at either size 0x0 or 800x480 |
| 19:37.17 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: if you cover up the sensor then yes |
| 19:37.31 | ErwinJunge | Ok, I'll put an ifndef around it |
| 19:37.44 | peterbjornx | also, can anyone give me a complete pinout of testpads in the n900 |
| 19:37.46 | DocScrutinizer | sensor has a rather spotlight/tele type of characteristics |
| 19:37.59 | Sicelo | yes DocScrutinizer. that works. nothing obstructing sensor in any way |
| 19:38.02 | peterbjornx | i know this is the maemo channel but as the n900 is the only current maemo device |
| 19:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | in a room with dark ceiling and some bright lights a tilting of device by a few degrees completely changes ALS' idea of ambient brightness |
| 19:38.28 | ErwinJunge | Btw, I'm now manually passing -DFREMANTLE to gcc, but is there a define set by the system that I can detect? |
| 19:38.47 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: nope, unless you use Hildon, which you don't. |
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| 19:38.58 | javispedro | personally I use MAEMO and MAEMO_VERSION |
| 19:39.03 | javispedro | (I mean, I define them) |
| 19:39.19 | ErwinJunge | Anything I can detect in the makefile? |
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| 19:39.26 | javispedro | yes, cat /etc/maemo_release |
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| 19:39.32 | javispedro | but they you need to depend on maemo-release-dev iirc |
| 19:39.38 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: no, there's no such complete list of testpads available publically |
| 19:39.49 | ErwinJunge | Great, thanks for the tip |
| 19:40.23 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: there are partial lists on the wiki |
| 19:40.29 | peterbjornx | ok, so only that image with rs232 and usb pads then? |
| 19:40.32 | peterbjornx | and the wiki |
| 19:40.36 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 19:40.53 | DocScrutinizer | kinda |
| 19:41.09 | DocScrutinizer | I know of some more names, but dunno the meanings |
| 19:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | so it's useless |
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| 19:41.54 | DocScrutinizer | one of them is FBUS iirc, so probably modem-related |
| 19:42.25 | peterbjornx | well it might be in the schematics (the name i think , not the actual pads) |
| 19:42.48 | DocScrutinizer | I suspect there have to be JTAG pads as well, but those are unknown |
| 19:43.06 | DocScrutinizer | no, nuttin useful in schematics |
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| 19:45.28 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, Do I put the calls to SDL_GLES_SetAttribute before or after SDL_GLES_CreateContext() and SDL_GLES_MakeCurrent()? Currently they're after, but I based that on what I saw neverball use. |
| 19:45.39 | peterbjornx | totally unrelated question, what are the major pitfalls when porting a normal GL program to GLES\ |
| 19:45.47 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: before |
| 19:45.52 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I know for calibrating of modem RF the factory usually *hates* to go via APE programs. They insist in connecting to modem directly |
| 19:46.01 | ErwinJunge | Could that explain the multiple windows? |
| 19:46.14 | a-saint | hello guys I am having problems on N900 with wifi ............ sometimes it shows the ssid on my router sometimes it shows all the networks arround but not my network |
| 19:46.38 | ErwinJunge | peterbjornx, that depends on the version of GL and the version of GLES |
| 19:46.42 | peterbjornx | maybe your router has a bad antenna |
| 19:47.02 | peterbjornx | well, im targeting the n900 so iirc gles 2.0 |
| 19:47.13 | ErwinJunge | it also does 1.1 |
| 19:47.18 | peterbjornx | and my program uses GL 1. something |
| 19:47.28 | peterbjornx | and some ARB |
| 19:47.28 | a-saint | peterbjornx I wish this was the problem but my pc and other devices sees it well |
| 19:47.44 | DocScrutinizer | they also hate to plug in fiddly connectors like micro-USB that can't get mated automatically, so there are the D+/- pads and the VBUS pad on those testpads |
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| 19:48.08 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: the Maemo SDL uses two windows, one for fullscreen and one for windowed mode. |
| 19:48.13 | peterbjornx | a-saint, i dont know it either then |
| 19:48.25 | a-saint | peterbjornx I wish this was the problem but my pc and other devices sees it well |
| 19:48.46 | DocScrutinizer | and *usually* you got some 4 JTAG pins as well, so you can do proper QA in factory, check for dead solder points etc |
| 19:48.48 | a-saint | peterbjornx sorry quick typing ............... will wireless tools help |
| 19:48.51 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: it's long to explain. But either way, windowed mode on Maemo has a rather large performance hit so if this is a GL game it's bets you use Fullscreen and forget about windows. |
| 19:49.28 | ErwinJunge | That was the plan all along, which is why I regard the multiple windows thing as a problem ;) |
| 19:49.51 | peterbjornx | a-saint,i dont know, DocScrutinizer: that would make sense |
| 19:50.11 | DocScrutinizer | JTAG *might* be the way they do things like ALS calibration etc at service points |
| 19:50.27 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: if you are in fullscreen, you do not see the windows =) |
| 19:50.41 | javispedro | (despite the fact they are there) |
| 19:50.43 | ErwinJunge | But will they still both be there? |
| 19:50.45 | ErwinJunge | Ahhhh |
| 19:50.54 | ErwinJunge | So there are supposed to be 2 windows |
| 19:50.59 | peterbjornx | im not really into high end microcontrollers and mobile processors |
| 19:51.11 | a-saint | anyone besides peterjbjornx |
| 19:51.24 | peterbjornx | JTAG was a serial debugging/flashing interface, right? |
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| 19:53.02 | DocScrutinizer | JTAG is a special protocol plus hw that allows access to all boundry-check enabled chips' pins directly |
| 19:53.15 | DocScrutinizer | basically a loooong shift register |
| 19:53.23 | ErwinJunge | peterbjornx, I don't really know enough to conclusively say this, but OpenGL 1.5 should be ported to OpenGL ES 1.1, since they are sort of similar. javispedro probably knows more about this :) |
| 19:53.29 | DocScrutinizer | 4 pins |
| 19:53.38 | a-saint | hello guys I am having problems on N900 with wifi ............ sometimes it shows the ssid on my router sometimes it shows all the networks arround but not my network |
| 19:53.50 | peterbjornx | erwinjunge, how about ARB VBO's |
| 19:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | ~jtag |
| 19:53.55 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jtag is a method of reflashing bricked devices. it stands for "joint test access group", if joshua_ remembers correctly. the method used is called "boundary scan" over a parallel port. it works by sending commands to twiddle individual pins on the CPU. LART JTAG info can be found at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/projects/jtag/ . |
| 19:53.55 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, a related question, does using GLES1.1 instead of GLES2 incur a performance hit, or is it just the flexibility of shaders? |
| 19:54.13 | javispedro | on the pvr there's little performance hit. |
| 19:54.26 | javispedro | other chipsets have more problems. |
| 19:54.49 | ErwinJunge | peterbjornx, you have thoroughly lost me :), see http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL-ES |
| 19:55.16 | ErwinJunge | It has a neat graphic on the differences between the different versions of GL |
| 19:55.18 | peterbjornx | ARB (dunno what it stands for) vertex buffer objects |
| 19:55.37 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, so GLES2 is slightly faster than GLES1.1, or the other way around? |
| 19:55.52 | DocScrutinizer | MEH, better try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jtag |
| 19:56.07 | DocScrutinizer | this link of infobot is dead |
| 19:56.38 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: I do not think the difference is significant on PVR, but other chipsets implement 1.1 on top of 2, and some do a poorly job at that. |
| 19:56.45 | ErwinJunge | peterbjornx, from the page I just linked: Sami Kyöstilä has developed a number of utilities. This includes SDL with OpenGL ES 1.x support, libglutes, python-opengles and several translators to convert OpenGL ES and OpenGL. Note that these utilities are designed for the Nokia N810 and OpenGL ES 1.x. |
| 19:56.52 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo jtag |
| 19:56.52 | infobot | jtag -- last modified at Sat Jun 28 04:49:56 2003 by joshua_!joshua@h002078c680df.ne.client2.attbi.com; it has been requested 4 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 2m 57s ago. |
| 19:57.10 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, interesting, thanks |
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| 20:00.13 | a-saint | can anyone help me solve my problem |
| 20:00.15 | peterbjornx | thanks, something else unrelated , i cant charge my battery with the nokia charger adapter cable and a thin-plug nokia adapter, it does provide power and n900 says it is charging but the battery doesnt charge (after multiple hours its still empty)(offtopic) nice, TU Delft (proud to be dutch) |
| 20:04.49 | a-saint | there must be someone who knows or at least tell me to throw my n900 away |
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| 20:10.15 | ErwinJunge | peterbjornx, I don't get the TU Delft reference |
| 20:10.26 | ErwinJunge | Regarding the battery issues, I have no idea |
| 20:12.08 | DocScrutinizer | a-eh? |
| 20:12.22 | DocScrutinizer | wtf? a-saint? |
| 20:13.06 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: please elaborate on "nokia charger adapter cable" and "thin-plug nokia adapter" |
| 20:14.47 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: sorry, have to run, RL calling. Generic advice: use bq27200.sh for better insight what's up with charging and battery. Search wiki for related pages |
| 20:15.28 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
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| 20:41.36 | peterbjornx | anyone still here? |
| 20:43.02 | sevard | no |
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| 22:16.27 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, what is a good value to set for bbp? Just leave it at 0 and let it decide for itself? |
| 22:17.08 | javispedro | 16 |
| 22:19.21 | ErwinJunge | Ok, set. I also seem to be losing mouse focus, any idea where to look for that? :) Is SDL_WM_GrabInput the only thing that influences that? |
| 22:19.39 | ErwinJunge | Neglect that last message |
| 22:19.44 | javispedro | thank god :) |
| 22:19.54 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 22:19.58 | javispedro | cause I was going to say you were overcomplicating stuff. |
| 22:19.58 | ErwinJunge | I didn't lose mousefocus, my framerate just dropped to far below 1 |
| 22:20.22 | ErwinJunge | So it seemed to do nothing, while it was just doing it extremely late |
| 22:21.07 | DocScrutinizer | ponders to get cpu load meter to indicator LED rather than CPU load applet |
| 22:21.07 | ErwinJunge | What do you mean overcomplicating? Should I not be using SDL_WM_GrabInput? |
| 22:21.14 | javispedro | you shouldn't |
| 22:21.27 | ErwinJunge | It automatically grabs? |
| 22:21.38 | javispedro | why do you need to grab? |
| 22:22.17 | javispedro | ah, maybe you're not getting key events and wondering why? |
| 22:22.19 | ErwinJunge | Good point, I guess that only applies in a windowed situation |
| 22:23.19 | ErwinJunge | Well, yeah, that was the original reason for me messing with the setting of SDL_WM_GrabInput (it was already in the code and set to SDL_GRAB_OFF) |
| 22:23.19 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: maybe because some other process grabbed input? ;-P |
| 22:23.32 | ErwinJunge | Setting it to SDL_GRAB_ON fixed my problem |
| 22:23.35 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: best #ifdef out all of those |
| 22:23.58 | ErwinJunge | But since then I switched to SDL_FULLSCREEN, so I guess that stuff doesn't apply anymore? |
| 22:24.00 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: try to also ifdef out calls to SDL_WM_SetIcon, that's a Maemo bug. |
| 22:24.26 | javispedro | *Maemo SDL bug |
| 22:24.33 | javispedro | ErwinJunge: it does apply, but I really think you do not want to grab the mouse/keyboard |
| 22:25.01 | ErwinJunge | Ah, thanks for the heads up :) I already ifdef'd those out, basically thinking "I don't care about an icon". |
| 22:25.38 | ErwinJunge | All my text just turned to blocks. Does that indicate a video memory problem? I.e. I don't have enough video memory? |
| 22:25.45 | javispedro | no |
| 22:26.06 | javispedro | it indicates you broke something :) |
| 22:26.22 | ErwinJunge | Ok, just checking. I'm trying to run a pretty intensive game, so running out of memory is a serious possibility. |
| 22:26.33 | javispedro | you mentioned it runs on iphone |
| 22:26.43 | ErwinJunge | The engine runs on iphone |
| 22:26.45 | javispedro | if it does, no way you're running out of memory on a N900. |
| 22:26.48 | javispedro | ah. |
| 22:26.50 | ErwinJunge | I'm porting the engine |
| 22:27.12 | ErwinJunge | The game that's using the engine however barely gets 20 fps on my netbook :) |
| 22:28.08 | ErwinJunge | darkplaces is an enhanced Quake1 engine. See http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/ |
| 22:28.52 | ErwinJunge | Any indicition what I broke btw? |
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| 22:29.17 | javispedro | my 8-ball is powerful but not that much :) |
| 22:29.33 | javispedro | read dmesg |
| 22:31.29 | ErwinJunge | HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered |
| 22:31.34 | ErwinJunge | Sounds serious |
| 22:31.54 | javispedro | does it appear many times or just once? |
| 22:32.48 | ErwinJunge | Twice, but it might be old actually (been having a lot of segfaults trying to get it to work at all) |
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| 22:34.33 | ErwinJunge | Doing a quick reboot just to be sure |
| 22:44.15 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, Reboot done, problem still there, no dmesg output |
| 22:45.15 | ErwinJunge | javispedro, Thanks for all your help today, and for making SDL_gles in the first place. I'm off to bed, I'll figure this out tomorrow :) Byebye |
| 22:45.39 | javispedro | cya |
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| 22:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | anybody joining chaoscamp @ Finowfurth? |
| 22:56.21 | MohammadAG | serious? ha, got it many a times |
| 22:56.46 | DocScrutinizer | -h |
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