| 00:01.29 | ShadowJK | There's one thing worse than the above |
| 00:02.14 | ShadowJK | Writing a new library for strcmp ;-) |
| 00:02.23 | ShadowJK | s/library/framework/ |
| 00:02.26 | ShadowJK | :D |
| 00:02.34 | jacekowski | libboost isn't a bad thing |
| 00:02.36 | DocScrutinizer | indeed we are all paying for the general developer's stupidity and laziness - I bet a winXP written completely in assembler would run like hell on a 50MHz CPU with 16MB of RAM |
| 00:02.44 | jacekowski | it's bit oversized |
| 00:02.56 | jacekowski | but java is even bigger |
| 00:03.07 | gena2x | just do not pay for winXP |
| 00:03.19 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i very much doubt that |
| 00:03.33 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: most of memory is used for nice resources and graphics |
| 00:04.11 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, there's also the problem that Nokia encountered with Symbian. Once you have too much asm, nobody has a clue how anything fits together anymore |
| 00:04.13 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you don't need 99.5% of those resources and graphics, at least not in RAM all them time |
| 00:04.45 | jacekowski | you do need lot of them |
| 00:04.55 | jacekowski | all nice windows frames and stuff takes like 10-15M |
| 00:05.00 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sure, I know the reasons why large projects aren't written in assembler |
| 00:05.27 | jacekowski | + wallpaper that's uncompressed in ram |
| 00:05.48 | jacekowski | every single window is taking quite big chunk of memory |
| 00:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: nonsense, you actually don't *need* more GFX data in your RAM than fits in framebuffer |
| 00:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | maybe twice that amount |
| 00:06.29 | jacekowski | so you have two fullscreen windows |
| 00:06.44 | jacekowski | you need space for both of them in ram |
| 00:06.51 | jacekowski | or you ask your app to redraw it |
| 00:06.52 | DocScrutinizer | I only ever have ONE fullscreen window |
| 00:06.53 | jacekowski | and use more cpu |
| 00:07.02 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 00:07.08 | jacekowski | i have 4 |
| 00:07.11 | jacekowski | currently |
| 00:07.23 | jacekowski | opera, clementine, putty, tcmd |
| 00:07.26 | DocScrutinizer | duh, quad head system? |
| 00:07.33 | jacekowski | no |
| 00:07.43 | jacekowski | rest of them is in background |
| 00:07.48 | jacekowski | but system still stores them |
| 00:07.48 | DocScrutinizer | see?! |
| 00:08.02 | jacekowski | because redrawing is handled by os |
| 00:08.09 | DocScrutinizer | see?! |
| 00:08.24 | jacekowski | same thing if you drag windows |
| 00:08.30 | javispedro | back in the days when the os fitted in 4MiB, asking the applications to redraw was the favoured option |
| 00:08.33 | jacekowski | and some parts are hidden |
| 00:08.56 | jacekowski | asking apps to redraw looks ugly when you drag windows |
| 00:08.57 | DocScrutinizer | then you need >>maybe twice that amount<< |
| 00:09.28 | jacekowski | you need as many times more as many apps you have if these windows are fullscreen type |
| 00:09.38 | jacekowski | and proportionally less if windows are smaller |
| 00:09.38 | DocScrutinizer | nonsense |
| 00:09.47 | gena2x | gfx data in video memory guys |
| 00:09.55 | jacekowski | gena2x: nope |
| 00:10.03 | jacekowski | gena2x: video memory isn't used for that |
| 00:10.20 | jacekowski | gena2x: well, it's used now in vista and w7 |
| 00:10.49 | jacekowski | gena2x: because it's using hardware rendering and T&L units |
| 00:11.09 | jacekowski | but windows xp is using 2d graphics for it |
| 00:11.22 | gena2x | i am not expert but 2d is hw accelerated too... |
| 00:11.27 | DocScrutinizer | not my assembler rewrite ;-P |
| 00:11.32 | jacekowski | gena2x: it's not for last 15 years |
| 00:11.42 | javispedro | jacekowski: note that winxp being the really old os it is does not store windows in memory when overlapped (unless requested!) and thus requests redraws |
| 00:12.11 | javispedro | you can easily check this by writing the hello-world style app that prints sth to console when getting a WM_PAINT |
| 00:12.16 | jacekowski | javispedro: windows are stored |
| 00:12.40 | gena2x | i can't :( i have no windows... |
| 00:12.41 | jacekowski | regions are invalidated |
| 00:12.46 | jacekowski | and app then redraws them |
| 00:13.00 | javispedro | which happens when you overlap the window with sth else. |
| 00:13.03 | DocScrutinizer | feels like a troll |
| 00:13.18 | jacekowski | but whole things work in a way that stores that into dedicated place in memory |
| 00:13.49 | javispedro | it still works like win3.x did. |
| 00:13.50 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: Wasn't that ue to a patent? |
| 00:13.57 | SpeedEvil | (not using backing store) |
| 00:14.18 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: maybe, never heard about it though. |
| 00:14.19 | jiero | I want Pyweek Games... and new pyweek event is coming. |
| 00:14.24 | jacekowski | javispedro: redrawing is way overcomplicated |
| 00:14.34 | jacekowski | javispedro: and it's not just simple redrawing every time |
| 00:14.38 | javispedro | no, it's not. |
| 00:15.04 | javispedro | for example, when the overlapping window is a menu, it does temporarily create a backing store for what is going to be overwritten. |
| 00:15.21 | gena2x | paint region is something different i think, than drawing desktop background or animated icons stuff |
| 00:15.22 | jacekowski | exactly |
| 00:15.33 | javispedro | for performance reasons, because it was assumed that menus were usually popped and hidden quickly. |
| 00:15.52 | javispedro | and also because the area behind a menu window is small enough to fit in the 4MiB computer the designers had in mind. |
| 00:16.31 | jacekowski | MFC and WTF create backing stores as well |
| 00:16.43 | jacekowski | which then are used to redraw |
| 00:16.53 | javispedro | individual windows are free to request them |
| 00:16.53 | jacekowski | .net works in some strange way |
| 00:16.54 | javispedro | same on X11 |
| 00:17.34 | jacekowski | but anyways, thing is it's not so easy to fit system in small amount of memory and have it look nice and perform fast and perform lot of functions |
| 00:18.00 | jacekowski | win32 api is much bigger than old dos or bios api |
| 00:18.10 | javispedro | I do agree :) |
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| 00:18.24 | jacekowski | but you don't have to worry about 10 different sound cards |
| 00:18.35 | jacekowski | you get standard interface for all of them |
| 00:18.48 | jacekowski | and same with graphic cards |
| 00:19.13 | jacekowski | VESA was first attempt to get standarised |
| 00:19.32 | jacekowski | miserably failed because it wasn't very compatible between implementations |
| 00:20.09 | jacekowski | and x86 PC are overcomplicated |
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| 00:21.40 | jiero | Anyway to let the N900 use OpenGL? |
| 00:22.02 | javispedro | ? |
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| 00:22.31 | javispedro | ah, you mean OpenGL vs OpenGL ES |
| 00:22.41 | javispedro | then the answer is no, the N900 only does OpenGL ES. |
| 00:23.37 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: this one sgx corruption puts yours to shame: http://twitpic.com/5rrtps :D |
| 00:25.18 | DocScrutinizer | WOW nice ;-P |
| 00:30.03 | Hurrian | javispedro, doesnt OpenGL 2 ES include OpenGL 1 and some parts of OpenGL 2? |
| 00:30.46 | jiero | Hurrian: still different. |
| 00:31.34 | javispedro | Hurrian: http://wiki.maemo.org/images/thumb/c/cc/Opengl.svg/654px-Opengl.svg.png |
| 00:32.54 | jiero | javispedro: do you have time to port the svg-edit? |
| 00:33.01 | jiero | http://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/ |
| 00:33.19 | jiero | I mean just change the layout to fit N900. |
| 00:33.24 | javispedro | "SVG-edit is a fast, web-based, Javascript-driven SVG editor that works in any modern browser" |
| 00:33.26 | javispedro | aa |
| 00:33.38 | javispedro | well, no way. |
| 00:33.49 | javispedro | html is far from my area of experience.. |
| 00:33.56 | javispedro | specially newfangled apps. |
| 00:34.01 | jiero | its pure CSS defined. |
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| 01:56.45 | Termana | good morning |
| 01:56.53 | SpeedEvil | Morning |
| 01:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | morning |
| 01:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | anybody joining CCC2011? |
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| 01:58.51 | SpeedEvil | would love to. |
| 01:58.53 | SpeedEvil | But no. |
| 01:58.59 | SpeedEvil | Going to sleep - or trying to. |
| 02:04.28 | jiero | Anybody here familiar with CSS and could devote time to a small request? |
| 02:05.16 | jiero | I request: svg-edit - web-based SVG editor to have a suitable layout fit in the N900. |
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| 02:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | >>In the beginning, the Universe was created. This was widely seen as a step of limited sustainability in its current implementation and thus, space hackers on board of the spaceship Heart of Gold began with the creation of a parallel universe, the hacker space....<< |
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| 03:08.46 | Juozapas | is there anyway to watch vimeo videos on maemo? |
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| 03:11.11 | SpeedEvil | They're flash? |
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| 03:42.16 | fusi | loool " bugzilla quips |
| 03:42.27 | fusi | "C++ (n.) an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog" |
| 03:43.01 | fusi | lol Doc, wtf :) |
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| 03:57.45 | fusi | Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live. -- John F. Woods |
| 03:57.48 | fusi | haha |
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| 04:07.11 | fusi | Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. |
| 04:07.15 | fusi | hehe |
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| 04:10.00 | DocScrutinizer | https://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/wiki/Project_Flow_Control |
| 04:11.03 | fusi | if anyone is bothered ive got a version of that twitter plugin here that works with supertweet |
| 04:11.23 | fusi | if they dont wanna wait for he full oauth version |
| 04:11.40 | fusi | which will be next week sometime i think as i have to go to milton keynes tomorrow for a bit :/ |
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| 05:36.12 | voltagex | I still can't get MfE working on my N900 - I get "Error in Communication with Exchange" |
| 05:36.21 | voltagex | server is of course m.google.com |
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| 05:39.57 | fusi | google does exchange? |
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| 05:40.58 | fusi | thought it only did imap etc |
| 05:41.06 | voltagex | fusi: yes, it's how Windows Phone 7 and Symbian phones do Gmail properly. |
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| 05:43.09 | fusi | oooh |
| 05:43.10 | voltagex | fusi: just got it, rebooted phone and tried again\ |
| 05:43.24 | fusi | ah gratz |
| 05:44.06 | voltagex | newly flashed N900 + kernel-power + CSSU + fapman + google, very nice. |
| 05:45.38 | fusi | :) |
| 05:45.43 | fusi | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1065000&postcount=166 |
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| 05:45.59 | fusi | theres a working twitter plugin |
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| 05:50.25 | voltagex | still can't find a replacement keyboard :S |
| 05:50.57 | fusi | get a 3d printer to make u 1 |
| 05:51.12 | voltagex | :/ |
| 05:51.15 | fusi | might cost a bit tho |
| 05:51.33 | voltagex | insane that I can't get a replacement |
| 05:51.48 | fusi | checked ebay et al? |
| 05:51.58 | voltagex | yep, bought 2, both 1mm too big |
| 05:52.17 | fusi | btw do u know if starting a charge invalidates vdq? |
| 05:52.32 | fusi | cant trim them? |
| 05:53.16 | voltagex | VDQ? |
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| 05:59.15 | fusi | its a value the bq chip sets when a full charge is detected |
| 05:59.30 | fusi | its used to learn battery capacity |
| 05:59.44 | fusi | afaik |
| 06:01.03 | FredrIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 06:01.37 | FredrIQ|n900 | was going to copy a directory from a remote machine, but for some reason I get bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' |
| 06:02.30 | FredrIQ|n900 | The directory name contains a "(" (and also a ")"), i guess that's the problem. But the fact that it failed - is it my fault or a bug within scp? |
| 06:03.15 | FredrIQ|n900 | I can just rename it, but i wonder if that error is a bug within scp (so I can send in a bug report then) |
| 06:07.04 | fusi | how r u specifying the filename |
| 06:07.19 | fusi | i think you need to escape such chars |
| 06:07.44 | fusi | just a thought, im just a noob |
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| 06:08.36 | FredrIQ|n900 | I'm indeed escaping them |
| 06:10.07 | FredrIQ|n900 | i did: scp -r fiq@(censored):/home/fiq/Rollspelet\(2\)/Rollspelet ~/testmappen |
| 06:11.42 | fusi | tried double escaping? |
| 06:11.51 | fusi | \\( |
| 06:12.06 | FredrIQ|n900 | Nah, but i guess that would work |
| 06:12.22 | FredrIQ|n900 | just renamed the directory... less problems then |
| 06:12.30 | fusi | :) |
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| 06:43.37 | ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/VisionMobile-Open-Governance-Index/ |
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| 07:46.48 | gena2x | one more noob question about setting up usb network. i connected n900 beast to usb, run ifconfig usb0 192.168.1.2 up on it, run isconfig 192.168.1.1 up on host, checked routes (exist), tried to ping - doesn't work. pinging from both sides has TX count of > 0 and RX of 0. what's going wrong? |
| 07:48.09 | gena2x | on host, cdc_ether and usbnet are loaded |
| 07:54.54 | gena2x | ah no tx and rx on device are 0 |
| 07:57.22 | robbiethe1st | gena2x: http://pastebin.com/BbLTP1tn |
| 07:57.40 | robbiethe1st | That's my host computer's /etc/network/interfaces chunk for USBnet |
| 07:58.14 | robbiethe1st | It seems to work for pinging and ssh; haven't messed with internet over it |
| 08:01.22 | gena2x | only diff is using 2.x network and firewall config |
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| 08:01.57 | robbiethe1st | Make sure you're in PC Suite mode on the device |
| 08:02.03 | gena2x | yes i am |
| 08:02.15 | gena2x | and storage mode works ok |
| 08:02.30 | gena2x | i have no firewall on host at all |
| 08:02.39 | gena2x | so everything should be allowed |
| 08:02.58 | gena2x | and for freerunner usb network works well |
| 08:03.00 | robbiethe1st | On device, in /etc/network/interfaces, you've got the same basic inet static,? |
| 08:03.16 | gena2x | i config it manually from command line |
| 08:03.31 | robbiethe1st | Just put it in that file |
| 08:03.35 | gena2x | via ifconfig usb0 192.168.1.2 up |
| 08:03.57 | Macer | hate rrain |
| 08:04.57 | robbiethe1st | http://pastebin.com/Ww3p9dMc |
| 08:05.13 | robbiethe1st | put that in your device's /etc/network/interfaces file, then try reconnecting |
| 08:05.22 | robbiethe1st | It's worth a shot |
| 08:05.58 | gena2x | 2.x network is wifi here :( |
| 08:06.15 | gena2x | and it should work without gateway |
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| 08:06.37 | gena2x | damn... why in hell nothing works out of box on n900 too? |
| 08:06.54 | robbiethe1st | Like USB networking? It's cause you're running Linux |
| 08:07.07 | robbiethe1st | the PS Suite Windows app does some of that automatically... |
| 08:07.20 | robbiethe1st | it certainly allows for some internet connection sharing. |
| 08:07.44 | gena2x | 'sharing' one iptables line |
| 08:07.50 | gena2x | so it's not a problem |
| 08:08.20 | robbiethe1st | All I can say is... I don't know. It works for me |
| 08:08.32 | gena2x | you lucky... |
| 08:08.34 | robbiethe1st | I followed some set of instructions, and it worked right. |
| 08:08.45 | gena2x | thanks for suggestions anyway |
| 08:11.08 | robbiethe1st | NP |
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| 08:38.56 | Sicelo | gena2x: wiki has correct ino on usb network. basically n900 has static ip of 192.168.2.15, and next higher ip is for pc side |
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| 08:40.13 | Sicelo | has worked without any issues for me. |
| 08:43.10 | Sicelo | sorry, pc side is 192.168.2.14 |
| 08:46.06 | Sicelo | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
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| 09:30.58 | MohammadAG | achipa, ping |
| 09:31.25 | achipa | MohammadAG: pong |
| 09:31.43 | MohammadAG | achipa, we're upgrading Qt to 4.7.4 in the CSSU |
| 09:32.00 | MohammadAG | with more testing this time |
| 09:32.12 | MohammadAG | Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (version 0x40700) with this library (version 0x40704) |
| 09:32.25 | MohammadAG | should we also send recompiled versions of libqtm-*? |
| 09:34.54 | ZogG | hey |
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| 09:34.56 | ZogG | sup |
| 09:35.01 | achipa | yeah |
| 09:35.06 | achipa | though there are pitfalls thre |
| 09:35.08 | achipa | there |
| 09:35.18 | achipa | that's why I didn't do much with it... |
| 09:35.20 | MohammadAG | achipa, which are? |
| 09:35.46 | achipa | for example if you go to 1.2, you will break all 1.1 apps that use Map* elements |
| 09:35.54 | MohammadAG | no no no |
| 09:36.13 | MohammadAG | I don't want to upgrade libqtm- packages to 1.2 |
| 09:36.27 | achipa | ah, you want to keep the 1.0.2 ? |
| 09:36.40 | MohammadAG | yeah, just recompiling them against 4.7.4 |
| 09:36.43 | achipa | that should work... in theory at least ;) |
| 09:36.53 | achipa | don't think anyone tested that combo |
| 09:36.56 | MohammadAG | shouldn't they be compatible though? |
| 09:37.01 | achipa | "in theory" |
| 09:38.43 | achipa | multimediakit is the most 'sensitive' in that regard, the rest should be ok |
| 09:38.54 | MohammadAG | hmm |
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| 09:39.21 | Hurrian | MohammadAG, still here? |
| 09:39.38 | Hurrian | the last Qt update didnt go so smoothly though... |
| 09:39.46 | MohammadAG | achipa, can you give suggestions in one area though |
| 09:39.57 | achipa | shoot |
| 09:40.05 | MohammadAG | not all CSSU users have all libqtm packages installed |
| 09:40.13 | achipa | rright |
| 09:40.22 | MohammadAG | but those that do have to install the recompiled version |
| 09:40.25 | jiero | N9 priced around 550 euro. |
| 09:40.30 | jiero | news from China. |
| 09:40.50 | MohammadAG | is there a way to tell apt to upgrade if already installed? |
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| 09:41.43 | achipa | probably not |
| 09:41.44 | Hurrian | jiero, how many GB? |
| 09:41.49 | achipa | HAM is a pain in the butt |
| 09:42.10 | Hurrian | achipa, HAM is slow and should be replaced asap |
| 09:42.16 | jiero | Hurrian: 16GB |
| 09:42.21 | Hurrian | owch |
| 09:42.24 | Hurrian | what the... |
| 09:42.37 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, this one will |
| 09:42.47 | MohammadAG | achipa, so any suggestions? or should I just have a preinst window saying "you should install the recompiled versions" |
| 09:43.44 | Hurrian | MohammadAG, you fixed Qt 4.7.4? |
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| 09:44.32 | achipa | MohammadAG: can't you make the pr-whatever-cssu package depend on it ? will it not pull all those in ? |
| 09:44.44 | MohammadAG | freemangordon did |
| 09:44.50 | Venemo | good morning |
| 09:45.19 | MohammadAG | achipa, that'd install libqtm for those who don't need it |
| 09:45.19 | Hurrian | that or throw an 'if package x then apt-get install package x' |
| 09:45.19 | achipa | (the root problem being that you don't want to end up with different versions of different modules) |
| 09:45.50 | achipa | MohammadAG: do we care ? they are small, optified, and people will need it more and more |
| 09:46.19 | Venemo | achipa, can I have a question for you? |
| 09:46.20 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, apt can't nest itself |
| 09:46.21 | MohammadAG | so you can't run apt from postinst |
| 09:46.36 | MohammadAG | you can, but you may not ask it :P |
| 09:46.38 | Hurrian | D: |
| 09:46.57 | achipa | Hurrian: if you want to apt-get within an install scrpit, it means your dependencies are wrong ;) |
| 09:47.03 | Hurrian | heh |
| 09:47.13 | achipa | Venemo: shoot |
| 09:47.14 | Hurrian | b-b-but it's a conditional statement! |
| 09:48.15 | Venemo | achipa, I have a QML model-view setup for displaying my IRC channel list and it works. however, in the delegate when the user clicks on a channel name, I want the app to switch to a different channel. for this, I would need to call a method of the model, but unfortunately I can't seem to do that. |
| 09:48.52 | *** join/#maemo andre900 (~user@client195-219.wlan.hu-berlin.de) |
| 09:48.58 | achipa | emit signal ? |
| 09:49.07 | Venemo | I can't listen to the model's signals either |
| 09:49.19 | Venemo | I tried QML Connections element, it says no such signal |
| 09:49.33 | achipa | you mean view's signals ? |
| 09:49.35 | Venemo | seems that nothing else is avalilable from the model, only the stuff I set as "roles" |
| 09:49.46 | Venemo | I mean the model's signals. |
| 09:50.04 | achipa | you mean delegate's signals ? |
| 09:50.07 | achipa | ( :) ) |
| 09:50.19 | Venemo | no, I mean, the _model_'s signals |
| 09:50.25 | achipa | yes, yes, kidding |
| 09:50.54 | Venemo | I have a class called ChannelModel, which has a signal: void receiveMessage(const QMessageModel &message) |
| 09:51.19 | Venemo | and I have a ListModel filled with these. |
| 09:51.22 | achipa | signals named "receive..." are just wrong |
| 09:51.40 | Venemo | in fact, it's called messageReceived |
| 09:51.44 | Venemo | I was just typoing. |
| 09:51.52 | Venemo | but don't try to change the subject :P |
| 09:51.53 | achipa | that's a different thing ;) |
| 09:51.56 | MohammadAG | onReceivedMessaged |
| 09:52.06 | MohammadAG | oh, signals, nvm |
| 09:53.14 | achipa | but anyway, doesn't ring a bell, and can't really check (not at a dev-capable comp) |
| 09:53.49 | achipa | Venemo: I'd poke people at qt-qml |
| 09:54.06 | MohammadAG | too, many, qt-, channels |
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| 09:55.43 | Venemo | achipa, well, I found a workaround: I added Q_INVOKABLE (new q* spell) method to my ListModel subclass |
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| 09:56.27 | Venemo | achipa, oh, by the way... why are the examples telling me that I need to subclass QAbstractWhateverModel every time I need it for something? |
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| 10:18.48 | RST38h | Hmm... US down to AA+ |
| 10:19.12 | robbiethe1st | Only? |
| 10:19.23 | RST38h | give it time. |
| 10:19.24 | robbiethe1st | I'd have expected it'd be a B or D by now |
| 10:19.58 | jiero | anybody familiar with CSS can help to tweak the svg-edit ui ? let it fit N900? |
| 10:21.47 | hiemanshu | gah, my N900 wont switch with a USB connected, no matter how much battery it has |
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| 10:28.43 | jiero | hiemanshu: same problem here. a solution is open the lens, and press shutter... |
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| 10:29.09 | hiemanshu | jiero: ok, thats an odd workaround, but what ever works :) |
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| 10:40.44 | DocScrutinizer | your N900 actually bots to runlevel $CHARGING whenever connected to USB, if it "doesn't switch on" then there's a probelm with kernel and/or initsystem |
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| 10:52.32 | casketizer | is there any windows tool to unpack debs ? |
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| 10:52.43 | Hurrian | casketizer, 7-zip |
| 10:52.48 | casketizer | thx |
| 10:53.04 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, namely, /sbin/preinit |
| 10:53.15 | Hurrian | do note multiboot alters it tho |
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| 10:56.41 | Hurrian | prolly a large cause of bootlooping |
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| 11:00.08 | casketizer | fuckin docpurge |
| 11:00.23 | casketizer | is it safe to delete that scourge? |
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| 11:49.49 | TimmyT | is package build-essentio |
| 11:49.53 | TimmyT | err |
| 11:50.18 | TimmyT | is package build-essential available in official repositories? |
| 11:50.44 | TimmyT | im going to install but it says its not available |
| 11:51.44 | neal | On my n900, I have git 1.6.5.7-3. Anyone know if someone has ported 1.7? |
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| 12:05.07 | GAN900 | stabs things. |
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| 12:08.36 | Termana | GAN900, nah, nah, nah. Stabbing things is for #meego , you had the right channel. |
| 12:08.40 | Termana | :p |
| 12:09.39 | RST38h | sorry folks, please confirm that n950 has no sdcard slot? |
| 12:09.52 | Mek | confirmed |
| 12:09.54 | MohammadAG | second time you ask this today |
| 12:09.58 | MohammadAG | :p |
| 12:10.14 | RST38h | yes, but I have notgot the answer and went on to do other things |
| 12:10.17 | RST38h | sorry and thanks |
| 12:10.25 | MohammadAG | no SD slot |
| 12:10.34 | robbiethe1st | wow |
| 12:10.42 | MohammadAG | if you want, you can have my dremel and try to make one |
| 12:10.43 | robbiethe1st | Talk about going down hill fast |
| 12:11.06 | robbiethe1st | Hey, I did that on my N770 <_< |
| 12:11.10 | robbiethe1st | Still works too... |
| 12:11.27 | Termana | lollercoaster coming down the tracks |
| 12:12.07 | RST38h | Mohammad: Nah, I am tired of dremelling today... |
| 12:12.13 | Termana | You didn't just stick SD cards in it either did you?... |
| 12:12.25 | Termana | You stuck SDHC cards in it, dirty boy! |
| 12:12.48 | MohammadAG | you can also send your N950s to your local abill_uk |
| 12:12.51 | robbiethe1st | Yup |
| 12:13.13 | robbiethe1st | 8GB SDHC card(with the casing removed) jammed in there and 6 wires soldered up |
| 12:13.33 | Termana | MohammadAG, my local abill_uk? Gee, I was hoping there was only one of them and they were located far far away. Now your telling me I have a local one? |
| 12:13.53 | Termana | Why do you have to make life so difficult? :p |
| 12:13.54 | robbiethe1st | ^^ |
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| 12:14.36 | MohammadAG | Termana, yes, we're trying to get one in every country |
| 12:14.42 | MohammadAG | at least one |
| 12:15.44 | robbiethe1st | I just hope abill_us will be as far as possible from me |
| 12:16.04 | robbiethe1st | same with abill_can |
| 12:16.08 | Termana | robbiethe1st, I have no doubt abill_us would be from Texas |
| 12:16.14 | robbiethe1st | Oh. Good. |
| 12:16.17 | Termana | lol just kidding Texans :p |
| 12:16.45 | Termana | (never know who you might offend with jokes around here) |
| 12:17.04 | robbiethe1st | But isn't it true? :P |
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| 12:17.48 | Termana | :p |
| 12:18.01 | MohammadAG | robbiethe1st, we have 50 abill_us-s, one in each state |
| 12:18.08 | robbiethe1st | Oh no! |
| 12:18.46 | MohammadAG | Extra taxes may apply for an abill_can though |
| 12:18.59 | Termana | MohammadAG, how many do you have in Australia? |
| 12:19.10 | Termana | (hint, this is a trick question) |
| 12:19.20 | robbiethe1st | All but one? |
| 12:19.52 | robbiethe1st | (I know one guy in Australia who's not, so...) |
| 12:20.04 | MohammadAG | one in every kangaroo's pouch Termana |
| 12:20.11 | Termana | robbiethe1st, I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE. |
| 12:20.20 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:20.51 | robbiethe1st | No, that's "I C WUT U DID THER" |
| 12:20.59 | Termana | MohammadAG, I was kind of hoping you would look up Australian "states" and declare that we have 6 abill_aus' |
| 12:21.15 | Termana | Then I would have told you that I would go to one of the two territories |
| 12:22.05 | Termana | robbiethe1st, we have a bogan infestation down here, but I'm not sure which is worse. abill_aus or the bogans |
| 12:22.25 | robbiethe1st | That's a trick question, isn't it? |
| 12:22.33 | MohammadAG | what if we equalize the number of abill_aus and bogans? |
| 12:22.52 | robbiethe1st | They'd cancel each other out? |
| 12:23.11 | Termana | MohammadAG, how about you just stick em all in New Zealand |
| 12:23.16 | Termana | Then they can all share their sheep |
| 12:23.22 | Termana | err... I mean... shear! |
| 12:23.28 | Termana | eye rolls |
| 12:23.29 | MohammadAG | we have abill_nz there |
| 12:23.57 | MohammadAG | the only problem is abill_il |
| 12:24.13 | MohammadAG | we haven't decided whether to send that to Illinouis or Israel |
| 12:24.32 | Termana | heh :p |
| 12:24.42 | TimmyT | i want to compile and install something, when i enter ./configure it says: sh: ./configure: Permission denied |
| 12:24.56 | MohammadAG | chmod +x configure |
| 12:25.09 | MohammadAG | lemme guess, it was in a zip? |
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| 12:25.52 | TimmyT | heh, wat a silly question i asked |
| 12:25.57 | ShadowJK | if it's on MyDocs it wont work |
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| 12:26.13 | TimmyT | no it was on /root |
| 12:26.15 | MohammadAG | that too |
| 12:26.25 | FIQ|n900 | abill_what? |
| 12:26.34 | TimmyT | its working now, tnx muhammad |
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| 12:39.08 | FIQ|n900 | what do you use for midi playback on N900? |
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| 12:41.30 | robbiethe1st | wildmidi |
| 12:41.39 | robbiethe1st | It's... decent |
| 12:42.21 | FIQ|n900 | ok |
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| 13:14.53 | ruskie | http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=2 <-- hmm |
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| 13:14.57 | ShadowJK | benchmarks one of his USB keys to 20Megabyte/s write speed, 15 kilobyte/s random write speed |
| 13:15.26 | ShadowJK | block size appears to be 2M |
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| 13:24.10 | casketizer | does QT sdk 1.1.2 still support maemo and come with madde ? |
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| 13:46.40 | ysss | |-))))))))) |
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| 13:53.20 | fusi | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1065000&postcount=166 |
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| 14:05.27 | fusi | guess noone give a flying shit |
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| 14:08.51 | GAN900 | Guys with male pattern baldness SHOULD NOT start sex change hormone therapy. . . . |
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| 14:11.09 | Wizzup | Has anyone tried ssh'ing to his phone when on the mobile hotspot (of his own phone) |
| 14:11.16 | Wizzup | It just always denies my password |
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| 14:18.43 | casketizer | fusi, thx....but what do i respond at supertweets register ann app questions? |
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| 14:21.59 | fusi | er |
| 14:22.07 | fusi | what do you mean? |
| 14:22.26 | fusi | you just to ccreate a supertweet account |
| 14:22.40 | fusi | and allow the MyAuthProxy app to acccess ur account |
| 14:22.57 | fusi | u thden setup a user/password for supertweet |
| 14:23.15 | fusi | its that user/name u put into the plugin |
| 14:23.28 | casketizer | i got a questionaire what app o want to register |
| 14:23.42 | casketizer | o=i |
| 14:23.49 | fusi | can u screenshot it? |
| 14:23.56 | casketizer | not anymore |
| 14:24.20 | casketizer | i just answered N900 plugin |
| 14:24.41 | casketizer | and wrote nonein all other fields but email |
| 14:24.45 | casketizer | and wrote none in all other fields but email |
| 14:25.00 | casketizer | seems to have worked |
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| 14:26.00 | casketizer | is Secret=password? |
| 14:26.16 | casketizer | it says secret not set after email verification |
| 14:26.51 | fusi | www.supertweet.net |
| 14:27.02 | fusi | if u click that link and click login |
| 14:27.15 | fusi | where does it take you? |
| 14:27.47 | casketizer | i clicked on the register login |
| 14:27.54 | casketizer | i clicked on the register link |
| 14:27.59 | casketizer | damn :) |
| 14:28.13 | casketizer | it took me to twitter authorization |
| 14:28.24 | fusi | u should get a big msg saying "Authorize MyAuthAPIProxy to use your account?" |
| 14:28.36 | casketizer | yea |
| 14:28.45 | fusi | auth it |
| 14:28.48 | casketizer | after that i got register new app questionaire |
| 14:28.56 | fusi | then setup a password on the next page |
| 14:29.18 | casketizer | after i filles questionaire i got email |
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| 14:29.48 | casketizer | after i clicked link in email i could activate and set secret, which is the password |
| 14:30.01 | casketizer | ytf they make shit so confusing |
| 14:31.58 | fusi | aha |
| 14:32.08 | fusi | was just taking a screenshot |
| 14:32.16 | fusi | but if ur there now :) |
| 14:32.45 | casketizer | i was just confused by all the questions about an app |
| 14:33.26 | fusi | i dont remember doing that myself.. |
| 14:34.01 | Juozapas | how to know when fsck finished a job? |
| 14:34.42 | Juozapas | ah, it's still working |
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| 14:43.06 | fusi | working for you casketizer ? |
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| 14:49.00 | MohammadAG | Juozapas, just don't ctrl+c it |
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| 15:18.22 | Juozapas | transmission always stop responding and then crash the file system.. any solutions? |
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| 15:33.37 | casketizer | juo download to sd card makes it better but not perfect |
| 15:33.49 | casketizer | Juozapas* |
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| 15:57.19 | Juozapas | casketizer: maybe it's better if you use ext3 file system? |
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| 17:06.40 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: please refer to http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED and that other pattern page, I updated some relevant point there |
| 17:07.04 | SpeedEvil | k |
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| 17:17.52 | DocScrutinizer | @Nokia (whoever you are ;-D) you maybe also may want to have a peek |
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| 17:27.51 | Shapeshifter | huh. using the n900 to tether using PAN is in fact working so well I have to watch out not to overdraft my traffic allowance. Been only using it for 2-3 days and I've already used up 700mb of the 2000 I have ^^ |
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| 17:38.53 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: not much I could recommend, except maybe the data traffic volume warning function |
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| 17:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | I've set it to a relatively low volume threshold right now, like 10MB or sth, So I get a notice for every chunk eaten from my 500 volume |
| 17:43.01 | DocScrutinizer | (not tethering, so 500 usually fine here) |
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| 17:47.43 | kerio | i have 50mb/day |
| 17:47.44 | kerio | :| |
| 17:48.14 | hiemanshu | I have 6G a month, and when that is used, I pay $2 more for another 6G |
| 17:48.36 | Shapeshifter | well mine just gets throttled after 2G but is unlimited in general. |
| 17:48.44 | Shapeshifter | I just need to get a fix line internet connection that's all. |
| 17:49.09 | hiemanshu | Shapeshifter: drops from 3G to EDGE? |
| 17:50.22 | amti | wtf? throttling sucks. :( |
| 17:51.09 | amti | do you have also throttlet internet connections at home? |
| 17:51.30 | ShadowJK | My operator's TOS says I could be deprioritized for using "too much". I don't know what "too much" is. I used 20 gigs a month for half a year, and didn't experience any "depioritization" :P |
| 17:52.04 | amti | 20 gigs per month is nothing... |
| 17:52.22 | amti | if you just watch few movies from hululu/alike you'll easily go over that. |
| 17:52.54 | ShadowJK | Yeah iirc it was just gpodder set to download a fairly active youtube channel :) |
| 17:52.59 | hiemanshu | ShadowJK: most ISPs here give you unlimited day, which is throttled after a certain limit |
| 17:53.26 | hiemanshu | I have an old plan, so I get unthrottled data, and my ISP calls me up is my monthly usage is below 150G |
| 17:53.31 | kerio | wait, 20gb/month on your landline? |
| 17:53.49 | kerio | holy shit, sometimes i use more than 20gb in a day |
| 17:54.20 | amti | kerio, what that does in a month? 600GB? |
| 17:54.51 | DocScrutinizer | c'mon limits on DSL are insane, nobody does that here |
| 17:55.10 | amti | DocScrutinizer, where, may I ask? |
| 17:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | OTOH you can't get truely unlimited 3G data here |
| 17:55.27 | amti | I've got unlimited 10/10 landline. |
| 17:56.36 | DocScrutinizer | anyway we're not discussing DSL, are we? |
| 17:57.22 | amti | I guess not. |
| 17:57.28 | kerio | amti: :3 |
| 17:57.45 | amti | In here, they're selling unlimited 3g-dataplans as replacement to landlines... |
| 17:57.50 | kerio | iirc i downloaded the whole MAME rom+chdset in like three days |
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| 17:58.00 | amti | :D |
| 17:58.18 | amti | if I may say, I play with virtualization and my monthly data usage is over 1TB easily. |
| 17:58.30 | kerio | that's 265,27gb |
| 17:58.33 | DocScrutinizer | amti: over 3G? |
| 17:58.57 | amti | DocScrutinizer, no. over my landline. my 3G is capped at 2MBps since it's really old plan. |
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| 17:59.41 | DocScrutinizer | so what? Nobody cares about landline data volumes |
| 17:59.58 | amti | I guess we're all just chatting for fun - what's your excuse? |
| 18:00.17 | DocScrutinizer | I'm pissed about 3G data volume limit, esp since my 3G is potetially faster than my DSL |
| 18:01.05 | amti | so you have sucky DSL. What do you do with your 3G that you need speed? |
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| 18:14.16 | Shapeshifter | hiemanshu: not sure, I assume they can throttle it on their end. |
| 18:14.46 | hiemanshu | ah ok |
| 18:14.58 | Shapeshifter | amti: nah at home I've got 25mbit and it's never throttled |
| 18:15.47 | amti | Ofc someone has faster, that's old news. |
| 18:16.42 | hiemanshu | I have 2Mbit :/ |
| 18:17.07 | amti | what do you use it for? |
| 18:17.27 | amti | I'd rip my pants off if I'd have 2Mbitps or only 3G :D |
| 18:18.13 | Shapeshifter | but my deal is goin well. Adding up to the whole year I pay 289chf, which includes internet, any sms and free calls within the network plus a Nexus S. I'm currentlx selling it on ebay and it's at 215chf, expecting to get around 250. |
| 18:18.40 | Shapeshifter | so a year worth of mobile surfing etc for around 35 euros isn't bad :) |
| 18:18.55 | amti | well it's not bad if you don' |
| 18:19.05 | amti | if you don't need that smartphone. |
| 18:19.30 | Shapeshifter | I have an n900 after all. actually I've got a spare one as well |
| 18:20.02 | amti | I'm paying 10 euros per month for 2Mbitps 3G and that doesn't include any thing else than 20 free sms's via ISP's website. |
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| 18:20.35 | amti | so all the sms and calls are extra to that... not that I'd call much. |
| 18:20.42 | Shapeshifter | mhhm |
| 18:21.04 | Shapeshifter | it's too bad that landline internet is so expensive. 25mbit is around 45 euros |
| 18:21.12 | Shapeshifter | 5mbit for around 27 |
| 18:21.26 | Shapeshifter | 50 for 55 euros |
| 18:22.42 | Shapeshifter | they'll add tv and a phone for just 10 more but I never use that stuff |
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| 18:24.30 | hiemanshu | amti: the max I can get here for a decent price is that |
| 18:24.49 | hiemanshu | amti: sucks being in India, but everything else is shit cheap though, so it makes up for it |
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| 19:06.35 | sevard | I'm looking for an extremly cheap nokia phone with gps (not a-gps) does anyone know what the bottom barrel nokia phone is with a real gps chip? |
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| 19:43.56 | valdyn_ | sevard: The prerequisite for a-gps is a gps reciever anyway |
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| 19:47.13 | cehteh | agps makes receivers cheaper ... so you wont find a non agps cheap phone |
| 19:48.05 | cehteh | less receiver channels, less quality amplifiers, smaller antenna |
| 19:49.51 | SpeedEvil | Faster lock, better urban canyon performance |
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| 19:55.09 | BluesLee | hi |
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| 21:15.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: any fast Vbat AD already? |
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| 21:26.26 | sevard | valdyn_ cehteh I'm looking for a phone with a _real_ gps chip. Apparently a-gps will only work with a mobile data connection and the phone I'm looking for needs to 1) have a real gps chip 2) cheap 3) run endomondo 4) have no mobile subscription |
| 21:27.11 | cehteh | sevard: any agps can work in gps only mode, but some do that rather poorly |
| 21:27.44 | cehteh | what kind of application, why dont you use an external usb or bluetooth gps dongle, these are cheap |
| 21:27.49 | jacekowski | sevard: no |
| 21:27.50 | sevard | it looks like the sirf III chips do it very well |
| 21:28.00 | jacekowski | sevard: it will work without mobile data |
| 21:28.04 | jacekowski | sevard: these are same chips |
| 21:28.05 | sevard | cehteh: I'm looking for a means to track several runners via gps |
| 21:28.07 | cehteh | sirf iii wont be in cell phone |
| 21:28.11 | jacekowski | sevard: + they have agps capability |
| 21:28.22 | sevard | jacekowski: but from what I read a-gps only works with a mobile subscriptoin |
| 21:28.27 | jacekowski | sevard: yes |
| 21:28.41 | jacekowski | sevard: but these chips are fully functional standalone gps chips |
| 21:28.47 | jacekowski | sevard: that can work in assisted mode |
| 21:28.50 | cehteh | agps is only software .. but you can make the receivers used for agps cheaper, substitute that by software |
| 21:29.06 | sevard | My ultimate goal was to find a phone that works very well without a mobile subscription and give it to several runners to help us track our runs |
| 21:29.20 | javispedro | buy a handheld gps |
| 21:29.21 | cehteh | sirf 3 is good but not cheap and iirc no cell phone uses that |
| 21:29.22 | jacekowski | sevard: only thing is that with phones you have smaller antennas |
| 21:29.29 | tank-man | are you runners going to be making phone calls? |
| 21:29.33 | tank-man | youre |
| 21:29.34 | sevard | tank-man: no |
| 21:29.34 | jacekowski | sevard: and signal that gets to the gps chip is much weaker |
| 21:29.41 | sevard | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=GB5mpZJt |
| 21:29.43 | cehteh | often gps is integrated in the broadband chipset |
| 21:29.51 | jacekowski | sevard: so it's harder for that chip to get a lock |
| 21:30.03 | sevard | these are all of the phones that support endomondo, but if i could find a phone that already tracks gps coordinates with time stamps and outputs in gpx that would suffice |
| 21:30.08 | jacekowski | sevard: because without assist it means it has to recieve clear signal for few minutes |
| 21:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | yay |
| 21:30.22 | sevard | jacekowski: i understand that |
| 21:30.22 | cehteh | sevard: whats that list? |
| 21:30.30 | cehteh | ah |
| 21:30.44 | DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps |
| 21:30.45 | infobot | i heard rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP |
| 21:30.58 | sevard | I've been looking through all the nokias on tha tlist and they seem, so far, to only support agps |
| 21:30.59 | jacekowski | sevard: if you get any phone, remove sim from it and disable gsm |
| 21:31.04 | tank-man | sevard, http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS%20Products/BT-Q1000.html |
| 21:31.06 | jacekowski | sevard: it's only addon |
| 21:31.09 | cehteh | what is endomondo? |
| 21:31.12 | jacekowski | sevard: it's fully standalone gps |
| 21:31.18 | jacekowski | sevard: with assist capabilities |
| 21:31.20 | cehteh | can you run the software somewhere else? |
| 21:31.21 | sevard | cehteh: endomondo is a gps tracking applicatoin |
| 21:31.24 | DocScrutinizer | sevard: a gps in GSM will *allways* be agps |
| 21:31.35 | cehteh | hey there are thousands track logging apps |
| 21:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | see ~gsm-agps |
| 21:31.40 | cehteh | why do you need that? |
| 21:31.44 | jacekowski | sevard: you get any of these and leave it with clear sky and with disabled gsm |
| 21:31.51 | jacekowski | sevard: and it will get lock after 10-20 minutes |
| 21:32.05 | DocScrutinizer | and *every* agps also works without "a" |
| 21:32.13 | cehteh | there are usb gps dongles you can just drop in your backpack logging stuff and later you analyze the data |
| 21:32.34 | cehteh | why do you need this special app? |
| 21:32.36 | sevard | jacekowski: 10-20 minutes is unreasonable for my applicaton... the garmin in my car doesn't have a-gps and gets a signal lock in under 60 seconds |
| 21:32.49 | cehteh | not when cold booting |
| 21:32.58 | jacekowski | sevard: because it remembers positions |
| 21:33.11 | cehteh | but yes devices with agps often dont put much effort into unassissted locks |
| 21:33.13 | sevard | cehteh: I don't, if I found another platform that has a fast gps chip and software that outputs into GPX format that I could get over usb or bluetooth that would suffice. |
| 21:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | sevard: please don't first do the conclusions and then ask for transforming them to a real thing. This never works, esp when you got no clear idea about the topic |
| 21:33.32 | jacekowski | sevard: and these devices have much better antennas than you can ever put in phone |
| 21:33.35 | DocScrutinizer | sevard: explain your needs and ask for solutions! |
| 21:33.55 | jacekowski | sevard: and the way it works is almost like assisted gps |
| 21:34.00 | tank-man | sevard, i just pasted a link to such a device |
| 21:34.03 | sevard | DocScrutinizer: ... thanks for the advice. |
| 21:34.06 | cehteh | any gps is slow at cold boot, thats a design constraint |
| 21:34.08 | sevard | tank-man: I'm readin gup on it |
| 21:34.18 | jacekowski | sevard: but instead of using frech data from internet, it's using data that it recieved recently |
| 21:34.45 | jacekowski | sevard: if you switch it off and move it 200 miles away, it will take probably around 10 minutes to lock |
| 21:34.46 | tank-man | the one i linked to has the following stats: Cold start 36s, Warm start 33s,Hot start 1s |
| 21:34.56 | cehteh | no, not even the most expensive gps can do a fast unassisted cold startup |
| 21:35.26 | cehteh | tank-man: 36sec is iirc impossible |
| 21:35.37 | sevard | tank-man: The price point point is about 3x too much for me :( |
| 21:35.38 | tank-man | no it is not |
| 21:35.44 | jacekowski | tank-man: it is impossible |
| 21:35.54 | jacekowski | tank-man: cold start means that almanac is unknown |
| 21:35.58 | tank-man | how is it 3x more expensive than a smart phone? |
| 21:36.04 | cehteh | the sideband which is used to transmit the data is slower |
| 21:36.15 | jacekowski | tank-man: and it takes 10minutes+ to transmit alamac |
| 21:36.19 | jacekowski | almanac* |
| 21:36.28 | tank-man | jacekowski, i used this device with my nokia n800 |
| 21:36.29 | cehteh | under perfect conditions |
| 21:36.38 | cehteh | tank-man: then it wasnt cold |
| 21:36.43 | jacekowski | tank-man: then it already knew alamanac |
| 21:36.51 | cehteh | it had some almanac stored and interpolated that |
| 21:36.52 | jacekowski | tank-man: lot of devices have preprogrammed alamac in them |
| 21:36.56 | tank-man | and it also can be used as a standalone device that logs info |
| 21:37.01 | jacekowski | tank-man: because it doesn't change |
| 21:37.43 | tank-man | i only quoted the info from the sites web page and its about the same as my experience with the device |
| 21:37.47 | jacekowski | well it changes but once you recieve it it's good for half a year |
| 21:37.54 | jacekowski | tank-man: that's marketing bs |
| 21:37.56 | sevard | hm |
| 21:38.10 | jacekowski | tank-man: you can't lock in less than 1s |
| 21:38.17 | jacekowski | tank-man: because you can't sync clock that fast |
| 21:39.01 | javispedro | a hot start in 1s is possible |
| 21:39.05 | tank-man | i dont know what 'hot start' is , but in my experience with the device, once i turn it on, in about 30 sec it has my gps position |
| 21:39.30 | cehteh | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Message_format |
| 21:39.34 | sevard | MTK GPS Module |
| 21:39.46 | javispedro | but it's evil from the manufacturer to quote that as their hot start time. |
| 21:39.52 | javispedro | because you won't see it much in RL. |
| 21:39.59 | cehteh | sevard: there are gps track-logger dongles for as cheap as 20-30 eur |
| 21:40.37 | cehteh | usb, small battery which last about a day and enough memory to track that day |
| 21:41.00 | sevard | cehteh: I haven't found a cheap one, i've been looking, 30 eur is like 70 usd, i was hoping for something aroun 30usd so i could buy 5 or 6 of them and gift them. that's why i was looking at old phones |
| 21:41.23 | jacekowski | sevard: then you can use phones |
| 21:41.26 | cehteh | huh is the $ dropped that much? |
| 21:41.33 | jacekowski | sevard: but it will take ages to lock |
| 21:41.35 | javispedro | but don't complain when they take 30 minutes to get a lock :) |
| 21:41.42 | sevard | jacekowski: that's why i was looking for something that didn't rely on a-gps |
| 21:41.50 | cehteh | i caclulate usually 1Eur == 1Dollar when electronic gadgets are involved :P |
| 21:41.51 | jacekowski | sevard: it's not relying on agps |
| 21:41.52 | sevard | and that's why i came here |
| 21:42.00 | jacekowski | sevard: agps is just an ADDON |
| 21:42.07 | jacekowski | sevard: it's fully standalone device |
| 21:42.25 | sevard | jacekowski: these nokia devices say they ONLY work with a-gps and not "integrated gps" |
| 21:42.30 | jacekowski | sevard: even your garmin can do agps |
| 21:42.39 | jacekowski | sevard: where does it say so |
| 21:42.45 | sevard | all of these documents say a-gps requires a cellular data connection |
| 21:42.51 | jacekowski | sevard: yes |
| 21:42.54 | jacekowski | sevard: AGPS |
| 21:42.56 | javispedro | "AGPS requires a cellullar data connection" is a true statement. |
| 21:43.00 | sevard | but my garmin doesn't have a cellular subscription |
| 21:43.04 | jacekowski | sevard: but it can do normal gps |
| 21:43.07 | jacekowski | sevard: but it can do agps |
| 21:43.14 | javispedro | oh. |
| 21:43.15 | jacekowski | sevard: you connect phone to it over bt |
| 21:43.19 | javispedro | "AGPS requires a data connection" :) |
| 21:43.20 | jacekowski | sevard: and it will do agps |
| 21:43.43 | cehteh | http://www.google.com/search?q=gps+dongle |
| 21:43.52 | jacekowski | sevard: or you can do almost like agps by connecting it to computer and you can get agps data over the interwebs to the device |
| 21:44.14 | jacekowski | it's called QuickFix in tomtom |
| 21:44.26 | Sicelo | GNSS is standalone gps :) |
| 21:44.41 | tank-man | android tablets can do that too (get quicker fix over internet) |
| 21:44.41 | jacekowski | and it's downloading week worth of agps data using computer to store it on device |
| 21:44.50 | jacekowski | tank-man: everything can do that |
| 21:45.06 | jacekowski | tank-man: but sevard thinks that if device can do that then it can't do normal fixes |
| 21:46.54 | jacekowski | sevard: agps means that instead of pulling alamanac and ephemeris data from satelite it can get it from internet |
| 21:47.05 | jacekowski | sevard: but it can still get it from satelite |
| 21:47.10 | tank-man | cheaper to have checkpoints for those runners and log that info manually :) haha |
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| 21:48.12 | jacekowski | sevard: but because agps is mostly used in devices like mobile phones, which because of space limitations don't have very good antennas, and therefore it's harder for them to recieve clear signal for 20 minutes required to get all data from cold start |
| 21:48.58 | jacekowski | sevard: well, even minute of clear signal required for cold start is a problem very often in devices like that |
| 21:49.10 | cehteh | .. and on the other side, many agps enabled devices fail to store and interpolate the data for later reuse :/ |
| 21:49.47 | jacekowski | cehteh: i don't think any device stores more than alamac data |
| 21:49.56 | jacekowski | not even normal gps recievers |
| 21:50.19 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: ot yet, though I think I understan how I'm going to do it |
| 21:50.30 | cehteh | well the point is for how long you consider them valid and maybe interpolate them some later time |
| 21:50.47 | jacekowski | well, ephemeris is only valid for hour |
| 21:50.53 | jacekowski | so it's useless |
| 21:51.02 | jacekowski | only data that can be reused is almanac data |
| 21:51.18 | cehteh | integrate/callibrate with signals you already receive .. if for example you have only 1 lock you can used that to syncronize time and interpolate almanac |
| 21:51.52 | cehteh | ephemeris is valid for 2-4 hours .. but better have some invalid ephemeris than none at all |
| 21:51.55 | jacekowski | you can't interpolate almanac |
| 21:52.18 | jacekowski | satellites are fully independen |
| 21:52.45 | SpeedEvil | All sats broadcast the almanac. |
| 21:52.48 | jacekowski | and invalid ephemeris is as good as none |
| 21:52.49 | SpeedEvil | As I understood it. |
| 21:52.55 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 21:53.10 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it still takes 10+ minutes to recieve it |
| 21:53.16 | SpeedEvil | I never worked out if they all broadcast it in synchrony, or not. |
| 21:53.17 | jacekowski | and if there is any error in transmission |
| 21:53.20 | jacekowski | like tunnel |
| 21:53.22 | jacekowski | or a tree |
| 21:53.29 | jacekowski | or it was covered for a second |
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| 21:53.38 | SpeedEvil | If they don't, you can put it togetehr from multiple sources |
| 21:53.43 | jacekowski | whole of the almanac is useless |
| 21:54.12 | cehteh | its all about software stitching this together .. |
| 21:54.14 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: well, i don't think gps recievers recieve on all frequencies at the same time |
| 21:54.21 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes they do. |
| 21:54.25 | SpeedEvil | Modern ones at least. |
| 21:54.30 | cehteh | thats my point in agps phones the usually dont put that much efforts into this software |
| 21:54.39 | SpeedEvil | Where modern is >1995 |
| 21:54.40 | jacekowski | cehteh: and you would have to know which parts are you recieving |
| 21:54.46 | DocScrutinizer | they don't send sync |
| 21:54.48 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: you do. |
| 21:54.57 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: are you sure theey don't just do frequency hoping? |
| 21:55.02 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: very |
| 21:55.07 | cehteh | nope |
| 21:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | and each sat sends his own current data about own pos in as little as 15s |
| 21:55.12 | SpeedEvil | I've actually got part way through a GPS reciever design. |
| 21:55.22 | cehteh | well i am off |
| 21:55.24 | SpeedEvil | The current time is sent by each sat every 6s. |
| 21:55.48 | SpeedEvil | You can actually generate a position off this. |
| 21:55.50 | jacekowski | yeah, so 6s is minumum time to get lock |
| 21:55.52 | ShadowJK | I thought GPS satellites all transmitted on a single frequency (well, one single frequency that civilians can use) |
| 21:56.03 | SpeedEvil | It's less than 6s if you employ hax. |
| 21:56.11 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: they sort-of-do, but not. |
| 21:56.14 | jacekowski | like having local atomic clock |
| 21:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: even that's not correct (whole alm useless), you can fill in missing chunks from next pass |
| 21:56.30 | SpeedEvil | They use maths trickery so that tehy all appear to be transmitting independantly. |
| 21:56.48 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but for calculations it's useless |
| 21:56.51 | SpeedEvil | When you are looking for one satellite, the others appear as noise. |
| 21:57.06 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: therefore you have to wait for other almanac to be transmitted |
| 21:57.12 | SpeedEvil | http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html |
| 21:57.18 | SpeedEvil | best introductory text I've found. |
| 21:57.24 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: it's like cdma |
| 21:57.34 | jacekowski | gps in principle isn't very complicated |
| 21:57.35 | SpeedEvil | It's exactly CDMA |
| 21:57.35 | DocScrutinizer | wcdma |
| 21:57.42 | jacekowski | you have satellites that send their time |
| 21:58.03 | jacekowski | you measure difference between these times and calculate distances based on that |
| 21:59.09 | jacekowski | but because satellites have to move |
| 21:59.23 | jacekowski | that makes whole thing move |
| 21:59.37 | jacekowski | so you have to calculate distance to satellite, and position of that satellite |
| 21:59.46 | ShadowJK | and also earth moves, and also earth's gravity curves space? |
| 22:00.16 | DocScrutinizer | yes, so what? |
| 22:00.22 | jacekowski | well, i think more error is caused by instabilities in cheap gps chips clock |
| 22:00.31 | jacekowski | than by earth's gravity |
| 22:00.35 | javispedro | hah. |
| 22:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | that's why you need alm and ephem for exact fix |
| 22:00.57 | ShadowJK | thought atmosphere was a big factor |
| 22:01.03 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 22:01.06 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Error in the clock is not significant, though that is why you need 3 sats for a 2d position. |
| 22:01.16 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 22:01.24 | SpeedEvil | Ionosphere causes several-may meter errros |
| 22:01.33 | SpeedEvil | many |
| 22:02.00 | DocScrutinizer | that's also what dgps is all about |
| 22:02.19 | jacekowski | star navigation ftw |
| 22:02.33 | DocScrutinizer | while often people think agps would cope with these things |
| 22:02.38 | SpeedEvil | I'm pondering that for n950/n9 |
| 22:02.42 | SpeedEvil | (star navigation) |
| 22:03.01 | DocScrutinizer | for sun and mon it may work |
| 22:03.05 | DocScrutinizer | moon |
| 22:03.09 | SpeedEvil | You can add to the position knowledge a bit by using the always open main camera to snap the sun/moon/planet positions. |
| 22:03.22 | jacekowski | i can give you accurateish position using sextant faster than gps starting from cold |
| 22:03.27 | DocScrutinizer | doubt it will catch planets |
| 22:03.50 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Planets are as bright as the moon - if you can focus them. They're just smaller. |
| 22:03.50 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: stacking |
| 22:03.59 | SpeedEvil | Stars are - generally harder. |
| 22:04.02 | DocScrutinizer | hmm ok |
| 22:04.11 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it's about distance as well |
| 22:04.26 | jacekowski | but stacking could possibly work |
| 22:04.29 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: If you can resolve the disk, then they are as bright. |
| 22:04.47 | SpeedEvil | Resolving the disk is impossible for some. |
| 22:04.54 | javispedro | so you turn on a bright light and suddently the error is increased to kilometers? :) |
| 22:05.17 | SpeedEvil | drops a kalman filter on javispedro. |
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| 22:15.05 | DocScrutinizer | hi javispedro btw |
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| 22:18.01 | DocScrutinizer | btw if any of you wants to know details about how gps works . the best link ever, courtesy SpeedEvil: http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html |
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| 22:23.21 | jonne | what does maemo use for scheduling? i tried looking for cron, but it seems to not have this |
| 22:24.44 | jonne | or do i just need to create the directory /var/spool/cron/crontabs ? |
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| 22:26.31 | NIN101 | jonne: take a look at "alarmed" |
| 22:26.57 | javispedro | hi DocScrutinizer |
| 22:28.06 | jonne | crontab -e works if i create the folders, but it uses vi |
| 22:28.10 | jonne | :/ |
| 22:28.21 | jonne | will finally need to learn that then |
| 22:28.56 | jonne | alarmed looks easier, thanks |
| 22:29.00 | jonne | will try that |
| 22:29.43 | jonne | i just need something to run the script that clears old map tiles from my phone |
| 22:29.51 | luke-jr | jonne: set EDITOR |
| 22:30.13 | luke-jr | export EDITOR=nano |
| 22:30.13 | luke-jr | or whatever |
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| 22:40.32 | jjo | learning vi sound like a way better idea than exporting EDITOR. it might even come in handy later. |
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| 22:43.16 | jonne | i think i set cron correctly, now i'll just have to make sure it actually is |
| 22:48.29 | DocScrutinizer | jonne: alarmed has a GUI as well as a crontab alike cmdline interface |
| 22:49.35 | jonne | i think everything's set correctly, and i've modified the script so it touches a file so i know when it was last run |
| 22:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | likes the cmdline feature ;-D (and the fact it got implemented the way he suggested) |
| 22:50.26 | jonne | yeah, but why install an extra app if the standard unix stuff can do it? |
| 22:50.46 | DocScrutinizer | because cron just doesn't really work |
| 22:50.54 | jonne | btw, can you send notifications from script? |
| 22:51.01 | jonne | wait, it doesn't? |
| 22:51.08 | DocScrutinizer | cron isn't built for a system that has zeroclock |
| 22:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | while alarmed even powers up your device when an alarm expires |
| 22:52.03 | jonne | i don't need this |
| 22:52.27 | jonne | i just want it to stop mappero from filling up my disk with tiles i'll only use once |
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| 22:52.42 | jonne | so i just delete all tiles that are older than a year |
| 22:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | well, you probably want the fact though that alarmd daemon doesn't hog battery, while cron doesn't care about the embedded idiosyncrasies of N900 |
| 22:53.13 | jonne | but doesn't cron run anyway? |
| 22:53.18 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 22:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | deginitely not |
| 22:53.25 | jonne | hmm |
| 22:53.27 | DocScrutinizer | def* |
| 22:53.38 | DocScrutinizer | alarmd daemon runs anyway |
| 22:53.38 | jonne | i'll switch to alarmed then |
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| 22:54.18 | DocScrutinizer | and alarmed is a frontend for alarmd like crontab cmd is a frontend to crond |
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| 22:54.30 | jonne | oh, ok |
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| 22:59.18 | DocScrutinizer | I actually suggested to create a crontab cmd that uses alarmed as backend, and to teach alarmed to use classical crontab files |
| 22:59.35 | DocScrutinizer | alas it didn't happen |
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| 23:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | there's another pkg called fcron iirc, but also iirc it has quite a number of issues. I honestly recommend using alarmed for all purposes where you usually would think about editing crontab files |
| 23:02.13 | jonne | ok, i've set it up |
| 23:02.36 | DocScrutinizer | you should like it |
| 23:02.54 | DocScrutinizer | if you don't, please tell Shapeshifter and me why :-) |
| 23:03.58 | jonne | umm, how does one remove an event? |
| 23:05.05 | jonne | i edited an event, and now i have 2 identical ones at different times |
| 23:05.15 | jonne | and now it won't let me delete the old one |
| 23:06.07 | DocScrutinizer | err, I think there's a delete button in gui, and a --help option on shell cmdline. Only think I think is missing is a symlink: |
| 23:06.10 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 2011-06-20 15:53 /usr/bin/alarmed -> /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py |
| 23:06.28 | jonne | wait, they got deleted, the gui just didn't update |
| 23:06.41 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, that's clearly a bug then. Pester shapeshifter about it please |
| 23:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | s/only think/only thing/ |
| 23:07.40 | jonne | i'll see if i can do it again |
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| 23:13.49 | jonne | does Shapeshifter prefer proper bug reports or should i just whine about bugs on irc? |
| 23:17.30 | DocScrutinizer | try pinging him here, I dunno if he will prefer bug reports ;-) |
| 23:18.02 | DocScrutinizer | err, bugtracker tickets |
| 23:18.49 | DocScrutinizer | possibly not the best time to catch him right now |
| 23:18.57 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen Shapeshifter |
| 23:18.59 | infobot | shapeshifter is currently on #maemo (3d 9h 6m 17s) #meego (3d 9h 6m 17s). Has said a total of 62 messages. Is idling for 4h 56m 17s, last said: 'they'll add tv and a phone for just 10 more but I never use that stuff'. |
| 23:20.07 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: ping |
| 23:21.59 | DocScrutinizer | jonne: TZ Europe ;-D |
| 23:22.32 | jonne | I'm in Europe too, it's only 1am :p |
| 23:23.11 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but maybe Shapeshifter is a lark rather than an owl |
| 23:24.09 | DocScrutinizer | almost 1:30... meh, time for pub ;-D |
| 23:26.20 | jonne | i pmed him,, he can look at it whenever he wants |
| 23:26.34 | jonne | should be straightforward to reproduce |
| 23:27.56 | DocScrutinizer | mention the version (aka the origin repo and time of install), as it seems he needs that. I think I mentioned that bug to him like 18 months ago, but I wasn't able to provide that info |
| 23:29.05 | jonne | done |
| 23:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | for the uebercool -z option >> -z 'DATE', --date='DATE' Set the date using coreutils date syntax, for example 'now +5 minutes' |
| 23:33.46 | DocScrutinizer | you need to install coreutils, otherwise it doesn't work iirc |
| 23:34.48 | DocScrutinizer | messybox "don't need this" policy, you know |
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