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| 06:20.20 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED |
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| 08:36.29 | wazd | morning |
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| 08:39.52 | ultra420 | :-D |
| 08:40.59 | ultra420 | hello~~~ anybody could help me to survive my N900 plz...i can't make the mscim work....even i press ctrl+space.nothing happened....i have installed mscim and mscim-googlepinyin... |
| 08:41.27 | ultra420 | any help..plz..i was bother by this for a whole day now.... i don't want to flash N900 again.... |
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| 08:43.40 | crashanddie | ultra420, please don't spam the place with ~'s and .'s |
| 08:44.05 | ultra420 | soooory,i got it. |
| 08:44.18 | kerio | crashanddie: lol...why~~~ |
| 08:44.42 | crashanddie | 'cuz I'm not in the mood. |
| 08:44.47 | kerio | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
| 08:45.52 | ultra420 | but what should i do with my N900 now,i can't input Chinese on it. this is tortue |
| 08:46.23 | ultra420 | i google for a long time. but i did't solve this problem yet. |
| 08:46.38 | crashanddie | ultra420, ps aux | grep scim-panel |
| 08:47.09 | ultra420 | i use " ps aux|grep scim ". but i got nothing. |
| 08:47.12 | kerio | ultra420: in the worst-case scenario you can just change to the russian keymap and change it |
| 08:47.36 | crashanddie | dpkg -l | grep scim |
| 08:48.51 | ultra420 | dpkg -l |grep scim:show i have install packages: mscim,mscim-googlepinyin,mscim-tables-symbol mscim-modules-table |
| 08:49.05 | crashanddie | did you reboot the n900? |
| 08:50.31 | ultra420 | thanks creashhaddie,of cause i reboot,i uninstall mscim* and then install mscim*, i tried a lot following the goolge's suggestion. |
| 08:51.07 | crashanddie | No need to get angry. |
| 08:51.10 | crashanddie | I'm just trying to help. |
| 08:51.19 | ultra420 | no...dear crashanddie.. |
| 08:51.36 | ultra420 | i did't angry. i m happy that you reply to me. |
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| 09:02.37 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, In reply to |
| 09:02.54 | pavi | <DocScrutinizer>pavi: CSSU is *not* an alternative distro to fremantle. Thus it won't see frequent updates, it only gets things that can not get deployed via normal extras(-*) repository. According to this rationale actually new camera, new mp3player etc all has to get kicked from CSSU rather than get any updates or even additional new apps of same class |
| 09:03.08 | pavi | So CSSU is something like debian non-free ? |
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| 09:05.57 | Pali | pavi: I think no, because in CSSU we have open source application |
| 09:06.46 | pavi | I mean in free sense , debian non-free are kind of not acceptable in debian main , similarly cssu are not acceptable in main maemo |
| 09:07.19 | Pali | Nokia abandoned Maemo, so no update from Nokia |
| 09:07.43 | Pali | CSSU is community updates of core (open source) components of Maemo fremantle |
| 09:08.16 | Pali | and in Extras are other application (non Nokia) |
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| 09:10.34 | kerio | yeah but the updates/replacements of core components could depend on extras |
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| 09:22.27 | pavi | Pali, and there havent been any updates recently ? |
| 09:22.44 | pavi | even in CSSU ? |
| 09:25.57 | Pali | I think no updates to repository |
| 09:26.33 | Pali | but you can watch git repositories: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu |
| 09:26.45 | Pali | there are a lot of patches/changes |
| 09:28.21 | pavi | Ahh ok |
| 09:28.53 | pavi | Pali, I am thinking of adding a keyboard layout, where do I begin? |
| 09:30.13 | Pali | First, if your changes/patch is someting for CSSU or Extras |
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| 09:33.23 | *** join/#maemo TimmyT (~timmy@unaffiliated/timmyt) |
| 09:34.26 | TimmyT | on n900 gps doesn't work. it can't find any sat, how can i find its problem? |
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| 09:36.13 | cehteh | TimmyT: how did you try? |
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| 09:40.08 | TimmyT | i run these programs: GPS Recored, GPSdata and Maps. I saw that sat icon was blinking in the status area, but it couldn't find any satellite |
| 09:40.45 | TimmyT | is there any hardware problem? |
| 09:41.42 | Sicelo | doubt. |
| 09:42.30 | TimmyT | how can i sure? |
| 09:42.41 | TimmyT | or at least find its problem? |
| 09:42.56 | ruskie | wouldn't the sat icon blink if there is no lock? |
| 09:43.13 | pavi | TimmyT, since its AGPS you need proper connection via 2G or 3G to cell towers |
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| 09:44.00 | TimmyT | pavi: im on EDGE network |
| 09:44.01 | ruskie | I thought it can run without agps |
| 09:44.21 | TimmyT | ruskie: what lock? |
| 09:44.27 | ruskie | GPS lock |
| 09:44.42 | pavi | TimmyT, able to browse internet properly ? and are you outdoors (silly of me asking) |
| 09:44.58 | TimmyT | pavi: yes, |
| 09:45.10 | TimmyT | ruskie: dunnu wat is GPS lock :( |
| 09:45.12 | kerio | pavi: hm, the best way is to modify one |
| 09:45.19 | pavi | used GPS on metro rail and was able to get the entire route from home to work |
| 09:45.42 | Sicelo | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026 |
| 09:45.43 | povbot | 04Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view |
| 09:46.10 | Sicelo | that's what helped me. i have no problem with gps lock ony my n900 right now |
| 09:46.42 | kerio | pavi: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 |
| 09:46.51 | ShadowJK | iyou don't need connectin to 2g or 3g |
| 09:47.31 | ShadowJK | works without too, but needs a minimum of ~40 sec good uniterrupted gps signal (assuming cold start) |
| 09:48.02 | pavi | kerio, neeed to change them for keyboard layout ? |
| 09:48.51 | kerio | watch out because if it's malformed in boot time it won't boot |
| 09:48.51 | kerio | so test it with... huh... xkb-something |
| 09:48.51 | cehteh | TimmyT: if you cant connect to the agps server then acquring a position need up to 15 minutes with clear sight to the sky |
| 09:49.28 | cehteh | the internal maps application is broken as it gives up after 1 minute or so |
| 09:49.31 | pavi | I think its cold start in TimmyT 's case . Yeah me even tried with home wifi . left the phone on the roof and came after some 10 minutes :) |
| 09:49.38 | cehteh | use mappero or some gps logger |
| 09:49.52 | cehteh | leave the device lying outside and be patient |
| 09:50.14 | TimmyT | ok |
| 09:50.17 | TimmyT | i'll try |
| 09:50.26 | cehteh | maybe your phone provider blocks agps requests .. |
| 09:50.41 | cehteh | can you try on a wlan? |
| 09:50.43 | kerio | pavi: you need to change that if you want to modify the keyboard layout |
| 09:50.51 | cehteh | and in settings you can switch between agps or not |
| 09:50.58 | ShadowJK | booted my spare N900 a few days ago to do some battery tests, started gpsjinni to add some battery drain, and got gps lock indoors without any network connectivity |
| 09:51.01 | kerio | pavi: advice: test shift+fn+key combos |
| 09:51.22 | cehteh | ShadowJK: when you are lucky, yes |
| 09:51.26 | kerio | for instance, shift+fn+z is the same as shift+fn+x |
| 09:51.48 | ShadowJK | It'll operate like gps until it gets agps data, at which point the agps data will be used to boost the gps functionality |
| 09:51.57 | cehteh | means, good sattelite constellation and you live in a cardboard house :P |
| 09:52.26 | TimmyT | i'm going to try it outside the house with my WIFI access point at home |
| 09:52.29 | TimmyT | brb |
| 09:52.31 | cehteh | ShadowJK: i think so too, but sometimes i doubt that :P |
| 09:52.38 | TimmyT | i'll brb and report |
| 09:53.01 | kerio | so, what's the official nerd toy as of now? |
| 09:53.01 | kerio | openpandora? |
| 09:53.01 | kerio | is there something with an omap4? |
| 09:54.02 | cehteh | http://www.raspberrypi.org/ |
| 09:55.19 | kerio | omg i liek pi |
| 09:56.06 | kerio | not portable :( |
| 09:56.58 | kerio | sheevaplug > that, as of now |
| 09:56.59 | kerio | for instance, the sheevaplug exists |
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| 09:58.23 | xkr47 | someone know a webshop that sells brand new n900s ? |
| 09:58.41 | iluminator101 | is there a graphical vlc for n900 or just command line? |
| 09:59.00 | cehteh | xkr47: amazon? |
| 09:59.19 | kerio | cehteh: cute project, but i want portableness |
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| 10:00.11 | xkr47 | cehteh, there's only one with 58% positive rating :P |
| 10:00.24 | cehteh | here in germany are few more |
| 10:00.47 | cehteh | but hillarious prices ... Neu kaufen: EUR 681,50 .. muahhaa |
| 10:00.48 | xkr47 | cehteh, I would be happy if you could give me some |
| 10:01.22 | cehteh | http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-N900-Smartphone-Maemo-black/dp/B002N2Z0MQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312365526&sr=8-1 |
| 10:01.31 | cehteh | (does that url work for you?) |
| 10:02.16 | xkr47 | yep |
| 10:02.44 | cehteh | http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-Smartphone-Display-Touchscreen-Megapixel/dp/B003CZZ3JI/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1312365526&sr=8-8 |
| 10:02.45 | xkr47 | no "english" button :P |
| 10:03.00 | cehteh | its .de :) |
| 10:03.09 | xkr47 | yep |
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| 10:05.28 | TimmyT | Im outside of the house, here i've run maps, i see a red line on the sat icon in the status area |
| 10:05.58 | cehteh | red line? |
| 10:06.03 | TimmyT | And its's saying looking for gps |
| 10:06.03 | cehteh | well dont use maps :P |
| 10:06.09 | TimmyT | Yes |
| 10:06.12 | cehteh | maps is broken |
| 10:06.31 | cehteh | install mappero or use the track-logger widget |
| 10:06.39 | TimmyT | Ok |
| 10:07.09 | cehteh | mappero and other gps software also shows some more information, sattlites acquired, in sight, signal strength and so on |
| 10:07.21 | cehteh | (somewhere hidden in the menus) |
| 10:07.46 | xkr47 | is there great differencies in the quality of n900 devices? |
| 10:07.57 | cehteh | if you go without agps you have to be really patient and be sure that your software doesnt give up and closes the gps after a timeout |
| 10:08.06 | cehteh | cold booting gps takes quite some time |
| 10:08.27 | xkr47 | I never use plain gps :P |
| 10:08.31 | cehteh | nothing heared about gps .. but considering the broken usb port yes :) |
| 10:08.58 | cehteh | well maybe the agps servers are down or cant provide you any info or blocked or whatever |
| 10:09.26 | TimmyT | Im sry but wat is agps? :-( |
| 10:09.26 | cehteh | then your device will do sattelite only acquisition .. which can be painfully slow |
| 10:09.37 | cehteh | assisted gps .. |
| 10:09.56 | xkr47 | cehteh, any experience with "Handelskontor Kirchner" ? |
| 10:09.57 | cehteh | the one asking servers on the internet about supplementary data |
| 10:10.02 | cehteh | xkr47: no |
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| 10:10.13 | cehteh | you know how gps works? |
| 10:10.31 | TimmyT | Is that a service i should run on my device? |
| 10:10.35 | cehteh | your device has to have a set of data about the sattelite parameters |
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| 10:11.06 | cehteh | the sattelites send that on a very low bandwidth and you have to have good reception to get valid data |
| 10:11.13 | xkr47 | heh bestdeals sells has n900s as new for several different prices |
| 10:11.24 | cehteh | thats slow and error prone especially in bad reception areas or while moving |
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| 10:11.58 | cehteh | with agps you can query this data over the internet .. but that requires a working internet connection |
| 10:12.00 | xkr47 | just loves the n900.. sadly n950 doesn't seem to be coming my way :P |
| 10:12.16 | cehteh | n950 n9 are dead |
| 10:12.42 | xkr47 | :) |
| 10:12.43 | nid0 | I had a chat with someone working at nokia research in london at the weekend, apparently they just have n950's and n9's pretty much lying round by the dozen :\ |
| 10:12.44 | cehteh | TimmyT: you never used the gps before right? |
| 10:12.48 | xkr47 | how about n900 ? :) |
| 10:13.01 | cehteh | mine works :P |
| 10:13.01 | yacc | sigh, well, the company policies at least managed to get Nokia on a Top-10 brands to vanish 2012 list ;) |
| 10:13.04 | TimmyT | Tnx, i got that. So can i run agps service on my device? |
| 10:13.06 | xkr47 | mine too |
| 10:13.06 | xkr47 | :) |
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| 10:13.29 | cehteh | TimmyT: not really service, more a client |
| 10:13.44 | cehteh | which queries the nokia agps server |
| 10:13.49 | TimmyT | Cehteh, not on this device. Bfore i did on a b7300 |
| 10:14.15 | cehteh | cold booting any gps is slow, thats intrinsic to the gps protocol |
| 10:14.47 | cehteh | with better antenna and better receiver you can make it little faster since you have less erroneous reception and better signal strength |
| 10:14.53 | TimmyT | I run navitel on that windows device and it could find sats quikly |
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| 10:15.36 | cehteh | yes most devices can cache and interpolate this data to do warm boots |
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| 10:16.11 | cehteh | with agps i get a fix in matter of seconds on my n900 |
| 10:16.18 | cehteh | without it takes quite a while |
| 10:16.53 | cehteh | you verified that you can surf the web? .. internet connection works? |
| 10:17.28 | TimmyT | Im on n900 right now |
| 10:17.58 | TimmyT | Using pidgin to be here |
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| 10:18.22 | cehteh | ok |
| 10:18.39 | TimmyT | Is agps available in official repos? |
| 10:19.14 | nid0 | its built into the device |
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| 10:19.37 | cehteh | you dont need to install anything |
| 10:19.44 | cehteh | go to settings->locatioon |
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| 10:20.06 | TimmyT | Aaaah, i got that |
| 10:20.12 | cehteh | there you can activate/deactivate "network positioning" or whater its named |
| 10:20.17 | cehteh | what that on? |
| 10:20.20 | joga | http://i.imgur.com/VEOpb.jpg |
| 10:20.41 | cehteh | then you can add a server ther default is supl.nokia.com you can also try supl.google.com |
| 10:21.06 | TimmyT | Google is better |
| 10:21.06 | cehteh | joga: :) |
| 10:21.17 | TimmyT | Tnx for saying that |
| 10:21.23 | cehteh | just try some people report google works for them but nokia not |
| 10:22.02 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@tmo-097-90.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 10:22.13 | TimmyT | Going outside to try again |
| 10:22.38 | pavi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS |
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| 10:23.26 | TimmyT | Hey look, since i've changed its server, the sat icon doesn't blink n e more |
| 10:23.56 | pavi | TimmyT, also try some of the apps listed here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nokia_N900 |
| 10:24.40 | pavi | The default nokia one worked for me :) |
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| 10:27.42 | woodong50_______ | ... |
| 10:28.15 | TimmyT | Ok, tnx guys, im going to get some new apps for gps |
| 10:29.07 | MohammadAG | lol joga |
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| 10:29.58 | *** part/#maemo TimmyT (~user@unaffiliated/timmyt) |
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| 10:31.02 | cehteh | TimmyT1: http://monav.openstreetmap.de |
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| 10:45.10 | pavi | cehteh, monav looks cool , installing it |
| 10:45.31 | cehteh | i am using it almost exclusively by now |
| 10:46.02 | cehteh | put the germany_big map on a squashfs .. which is kinda cool as it saves some GB of memory |
| 10:46.28 | nusse | bike routing seems to be broken for me |
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| 10:47.10 | pavi | cehteh, are they all tiles or routing info inside the downloads? |
| 10:47.17 | pavi | How about network usage? |
| 10:48.08 | cehteh | pavi: it has vector maps, not tiles :) ... you can use it completely offline |
| 10:48.21 | cehteh | with the best looking maps available on the n900 |
| 10:48.25 | pavi | cehteh, wow thats why I see smaller downloads :) |
| 10:48.33 | pavi | downloads the data dir :) |
| 10:48.46 | cehteh | tile maps are also supported, but i never tried those |
| 10:50.04 | pavi | Qtile Renderer« requires that the preprocessor packed geometry data into a special binary file format. Map tiles are then rendered "on the fly". |
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| 10:50.08 | pavi | ahh nice ! |
| 10:50.12 | cehteh | the awesome thing is its routing .. quote from Christoph "you dont notice anymore when you took the wrong way" |
| 10:50.19 | pavi | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MoNav#Rendering |
| 10:50.48 | cehteh | means when you took the wrong way it instantly shows the route from where you are to the destionation |
| 10:50.59 | pavi | est tres content , yeah really content both in french and english sense |
| 10:51.11 | pavi | TimmyT, how is GPS ? |
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| 10:51.45 | TimmyT | GPS is so nice :D |
| 10:51.53 | TimmyT | but didn't work :( |
| 10:52.17 | TimmyT | even after changing that server to google |
| 10:52.34 | pavi | This reminds me of those hell days I had with iphone and a stupid cellphone provider . |
| 10:52.51 | pavi | TimmyT, dude try with another sim card |
| 10:53.50 | TimmyT | dunnu anythin now, im trying to find a useful calculator for maemo |
| 10:53.59 | pavi | I switched my provider and everything just worked like that . Agreed that N900 also uses wifi network to assist the GPS , the cellphone way is preferred |
| 10:55.08 | TimmyT | wat the difference it makes? |
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| 11:05.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | the GSM providers usually send special GPS assist data in a "hidden" channel. This is way more specific regarding location than your average internet based SUPL |
| 11:06.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | plus it goes to modem directly. On N900 GPS is handled by modem |
| 11:07.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | so eve with an invalid SIM and no data connectivity you may have better GPS than with any internet based SUPL server |
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| 11:13.46 | chem|st | WTF? |
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| 11:17.36 | TimmyT | im confused |
| 11:18.29 | TimmyT | is it possible to connect usb devices such as usb mice or keyboards or even cool disks to n900? |
| 11:18.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 11:19.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~h-e-n |
| 11:19.12 | infobot | somebody said hostmode was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging |
| 11:22.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: ? |
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| 11:26.28 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, there is special provider-enabled channel? surprising enough, i was sure it is similar to wlan mac assisted mode: a self-maintained database mapping cell ids to locations |
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| 11:35.29 | ShadowJK | It's all highly operator dependent |
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| 11:36.10 | ShadowJK | from tmobile blocking/scrambling agps requests to supl.nokia, to operators sending position information :) |
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| 11:45.05 | pavi | ShadowJK, yeah a sim change could provide results for TimmyT |
| 11:45.52 | hiemanshu | ~packrat |
| 11:45.52 | infobot | rumour has it, packrat is a cute little rodent that keeps everything it finds. http://www.ageofikon.com/prh/ |
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| 11:49.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~rrlp |
| 11:49.57 | infobot | somebody said rrlp was the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP |
| 11:50.34 | DocScrutinizer | ^^^ AGPS via GSM, "transparent" |
| 11:51.46 | DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps is <reply>see rrlp |
| 11:51.47 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay |
| 11:51.57 | DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps |
| 11:51.57 | infobot | [rrlp] the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP |
| 11:52.27 | Pali | DocScrutinizer: I started developing library for BME: https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_libbqioctl |
| 11:52.31 | DocScrutinizer | next time I hope it won't take me 30min to find the friggin factoid - couldn't remember llrp |
| 11:53.31 | Pali | it will read battery properties from /sys if application call ioctl on device in /dev |
| 11:54.09 | xkr47 | is it possible to transfer backups taken in one n900 to another ? |
| 11:54.14 | DocScrutinizer | fsck did it again, brain: s/llrp/rrlp/ |
| 11:55.24 | DocScrutinizer | >>In all known phones, RRLP operation is completely invisible to the user of the phone.<< |
| 11:55.44 | TimmyT | going to install nano, but it says: dependencies: |
| 11:55.44 | TimmyT | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:56.21 | DocScrutinizer | >>Contrary to the user-plane based SUPL?, RRLP works entirely in the signaling plane of the network.<< |
| 11:57.24 | lardman | anyone here had any experience of tesseract or other ocr sw on-device? |
| 11:57.30 | TimmyT | where is that library? i've added all of official repositories |
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| 12:00.01 | DocScrutinizer | >>[BTS provides...] the expected code phase, i.e. the difference between a specified GSM bit and the GPS signal chip / bit<< This helps A LOT to get an instant fix |
| 12:01.21 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: chem|st: this should help you understand what GSM does for GPS |
| 12:01.37 | *** join/#maemo bboyvat (~boyvat@nat/nokia/x-olckbvijzodigaev) |
| 12:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | ...and why N900 has almost instant fix whenever a SIM is inserted |
| 12:02.17 | DocScrutinizer | ...and why this is even better than SUPL |
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| 12:11.38 | DocScrutinizer | >> This approach sends data necessary for performing Assisted-GPS on the control â or standards-defined â channels (thus the term âcontrol planeâ) which are an inherent part of a network operatorâs mobile call distribution system.<< http://www.gpsworld.com/gps/wireless-choices-lbs-control-plane-and-user-plane-architectures-1576 |
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| 12:13.01 | DocScrutinizer | xkr47: sure |
| 12:13.07 | DocScrutinizer | xkr47: no problem |
| 12:13.11 | xkr47 | what :) |
| 12:13.16 | xkr47 | ah sorry yeah thx |
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| 12:13.25 | xkr47 | where are the backups stored ? |
| 12:13.47 | xkr47 | I guess I can't just rsync / 1.2.3.4:/ :D |
| 12:13.49 | DocScrutinizer | .backup |
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| 12:14.07 | DocScrutinizer | or .backups |
| 12:14.22 | xkr47 | .backgrounds ? :) |
| 12:15.43 | xkr47 | there is an empty .osso-backup |
| 12:15.50 | DocScrutinizer | home/user/MyDocs/backups even |
| 12:16.03 | xkr47 | ooo nice |
| 12:16.06 | xkr47 | bingo |
| 12:16.18 | xkr47 | nicely in zip files |
| 12:16.22 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 12:16.43 | DocScrutinizer | o/ bbl |
| 12:16.47 | xkr47 | bb thx |
| 12:18.29 | xkr47 | hmm does the encryption garble the zip files so they don't look as zip anymore.. |
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| 12:22.33 | jhb1 | cehteh: thanks for the pointer to monav earlier on. Didn't know about that at all, its awesome! |
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| 12:28.53 | DocScrutinizer | (RRLP) a carrier permanently using the "hidden" GPS inquiry features could easily cause "mysterious" battery drain on N900 as well as any other GPS enabled phone |
| 12:29.31 | DocScrutinizer | so when your battery is depleting more quickly than it should, maybe "they" are after you ;-D |
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| 12:41.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | note that RRLP defines other complementary locating technologies for E911. One of those is "triangulation" which actually is an exact recording of propagation delay of phone TX to 3 (or more) BTS. For this all the neighbour BTS of your servicing BTS need an additional receiver listening and analyzing the RF signal your phone sends to your servicing BTS. This means each BTS needs severel such units, one for each neighbour cell. Allegedl |
| 12:41.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | y the technology isn't commonly used due to economic reasons. It however would allow carrier and third parties to locate you with a precision similar to GPS |
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| 12:43.21 | RST38h | Facebook's Marketing Director, Randi Zuckerburg, is quoted: 'I think anonymity on the Internet has to go away. People behave a lot better when they have their real names down. I think people hide behind anonymity and they feel like they can say whatever they want behind closed doors.' |
| 12:44.09 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: LORAN ftw :P |
| 12:44.10 | RST38h | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randi_Zuckerberg |
| 12:44.39 | hiemanshu | RST38h: randi in hindi means slut :P |
| 12:45.09 | RST38h | hiemanshu: I think you should go and tell her that, on Facebook or something |
| 12:45.27 | RST38h | She will absolutely love it, being a marketing executive |
| 12:45.28 | Arkenoi | as law enforcement have frequent problems with locating criminals precisely enough, it does not seem it is widely deployed here in Russia |
| 12:45.38 | hiemanshu | RST38h: I wish I could |
| 12:45.45 | RST38h | But you can! |
| 12:45.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | zuckerberg is a moron and a nazi, obviously |
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| 12:46.16 | RST38h | I can understand the moron part, but why a nazi? =) |
| 12:46.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | I think, zuckerberg is... :-P |
| 12:46.37 | hiemanshu | RST38h: he doesn't care about the jews? :P |
| 12:46.50 | RST38h | BTW, triangulation is kinda problematic in the setting you have described |
| 12:47.16 | RST38h | Consider those signals reflecting from walls in an urban setting - they are NOT necessarily traveling the direct paths to the tower |
| 12:47.42 | derf | RST38h: That problem is mostly solved. |
| 12:47.50 | RST38h | derf: how? |
| 12:47.53 | derf | Though perhaps not in commercially available products. |
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| 12:48.30 | RST38h | is someone creating a map of corrections to be applied to each tower, in each location? :) |
| 12:48.41 | cehteh | there are ways to find out if a signal is a reflection or not and then also approximate the reflections and use them for improving the signal |
| 12:48.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: uing >3 BTS will kill this issue |
| 12:48.52 | RST38h | hmmm |
| 12:48.58 | RST38h | Doc: Nope |
| 12:49.09 | RST38h | Doc: Actually, based on my personal experience :) |
| 12:49.24 | crashanddie | hiemanshu, I thought it was whore? |
| 12:49.36 | hiemanshu | crashanddie: slut whore, about the same :P |
| 12:49.38 | RST38h | You can't imagine all the funny items a 2.4GHz signal will reflect from =) |
| 12:49.55 | crashanddie | hiemanshu, I just remember "randi ke beesh" |
| 12:50.03 | derf | RST38h: Using stuff like http://www.robomow.ion.org/meetings/abstract.cfm?meetingID=25&pid=174&t=D&s=1 |
| 12:50.05 | cehteh | use a teaspoon as dish :P |
| 12:50.13 | hiemanshu | crashanddie: hah, you from india? |
| 12:50.17 | crashanddie | not at all |
| 12:50.33 | crashanddie | but my girlfriend is half korean and grew up in India. |
| 12:50.36 | RST38h | cehteh: metal door handles. car driving 100 meters behind a window. etc. |
| 12:50.38 | hiemanshu | ah |
| 12:50.52 | hiemanshu | crashanddie: its randi ke beej, meaning SOP |
| 12:51.03 | crashanddie | close enough. |
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| 12:52.16 | RST38h | derf: Sounds very GPS-specific |
| 12:52.36 | derf | RST38h: It's really not. |
| 12:52.41 | derf | It even says so in the first paragraph. |
| 12:52.50 | RST38h | hm, interesting |
| 12:52.54 | derf | "In this paper, we concentrate on the second topic and present multipath mitigation methods which are equally applicable to GPS and SoOP signals." |
| 12:53.12 | RST38h | tries mentally applying it to the simple triangulation problem |
| 12:53.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~wtf sop |
| 12:54.01 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, son of a whore. |
| 12:54.26 | cehteh | RST38h: well, signal processing is quite advanced nowadays |
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| 12:59.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | point is you can get a non-ambiguous relatively exact triangulation location even with 2 BTS, by just selecting a secondary aka neighbour BTS that doesn't sit in a line with servicing BTS ->phone |
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| 13:01.19 | SpeedEvil | GPS multipath is fun! |
| 13:01.31 | DocScrutinizer | with 3 BTS you already have enough redundancy to detect and compensate for reflections. Esp if the reflection issue is known and taken into account by the model of the area's signal properties |
| 13:01.33 | lcuk | multipass |
| 13:01.55 | SpeedEvil | Especially given that in the urban canyon, it's completely possible to not get any signal at all from a satellite, only the bounces |
| 13:02.05 | RST38h | yep |
| 13:02.09 | SpeedEvil | For example - two buildings, one across the street from another |
| 13:02.28 | SpeedEvil | you stand right next to one, you can't see the GPS satellite behind you. |
| 13:02.50 | SpeedEvil | You can however see the bounce, which has bounced an extra 30m off the building in front of you. |
| 13:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | mirroring, see this all the time |
| 13:03.17 | SpeedEvil | This makes you seem 30m further away from the building you're standing across from. |
| 13:03.35 | SpeedEvil | And can push your position inside the other building across the street. |
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| 13:03.58 | SpeedEvil | Worse, in some cases, this can be a persistant effect, which averages to a false position. |
| 13:04.26 | DocScrutinizer | actually your position is mirrored inside the reflecting building, at least that's what I see all the time |
| 13:04.35 | jaska | ive had a gps position change on a statically placed device when walking around in the same room :) |
| 13:04.57 | jaska | as in, device on table, i walk around -> location changes, poor mans passive motion sensor?:) |
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| 13:05.19 | DocScrutinizer | GPS RF in a room is highly random |
| 13:05.43 | DocScrutinizer | reflects form building other side of street into your window, etc |
| 13:05.55 | SpeedEvil | jaska: GPS is _really_ funky. |
| 13:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | sure things change as soon as anything inside the room gets changed |
| 13:06.16 | SpeedEvil | jaska: Implementing a GPS with a 300m position error is fairly sane. |
| 13:06.31 | SpeedEvil | jaska: The code is reasonably simple, the orbital calculations are rather annoying. |
| 13:06.36 | SpeedEvil | jaska: But it's pretty easy. |
| 13:07.03 | SpeedEvil | jaska: Getting to within a couple of meters most of the time requires about two orders of magnitude more work. |
| 13:07.09 | SpeedEvil | Maybe 3. |
| 13:07.37 | RST38h | 300m is obtainable with cell tower signals only |
| 13:07.58 | DocScrutinizer | easily |
| 13:08.33 | DocScrutinizer | well, +-275m actually |
| 13:09.02 | DocScrutinizer | with one BTS, no sophisticated triangulations or anything |
| 13:09.18 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
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| 13:10.34 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: 300m wasn't arbitrary - the GPS signal 'ticks' at 1MHz. |
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| 13:11.24 | SpeedEvil | And the above estimate is for good conditions. To do well in multipath is close to a black art. |
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| 14:00.43 | TimmyT | may anyone give me a list of default repositories on maemo? i need repositories of nokia.i've removed them, now i see they're important |
| 14:00.46 | TimmyT | :'( |
| 14:01.08 | pronto | :( |
| 14:03.20 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: wtf do they think with that crap about not having community software hosted on meego.com |
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| 14:04.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | no idea |
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| 14:04.41 | andre__ | TimmyT, http://fpaste.org/j2wD/ |
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| 14:05.23 | TimmyT | andre__: tnx a lot :D |
| 14:06.44 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: is time for opening up maemo and create debian-mobile from it! |
| 14:07.13 | chem|st | will take some time to merge but better that than linux foundation idiots |
| 14:07.27 | RST38h | will never happen as debian does not accept closed packages =) |
| 14:09.01 | chem|st | X-Fade: t.m.o fails to offer the cert and thinks it is outdated, browsing once to bugs.m.o fixes it but that's prolly not the way it should be... |
| 14:09.09 | Arkenoi | amazingly enough, ovi.com jabber did not die despite it promised to |
| 14:09.26 | chem|st | RST38h: ? there is non-free you know?! |
| 14:10.19 | chem|st | RST38h: lots of closed drivers in debian - just look at amd or nvidia graphics stuff... |
| 14:10.54 | chem|st | RST38h: or do you mean the package itself closed?! |
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| 14:11.31 | *** join/#maemo bboyvat (~boyvat@nat/nokia/x-uwxwarfhhlbxjulz) |
| 14:11.33 | chem|st | RST38h: and which part of "open up" did fail on your system check |
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| 14:15.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: maemo blobs are highly unlikely to 'open up' |
| 14:17.49 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: I know :( |
| 14:18.20 | Gh0sty | takes a hammer, lets see how fast they'll 'open up' now! |
| 14:19.28 | Gh0sty | its too bad that parts of it are still not what it's supposed to be |
| 14:19.40 | Shapeshifter | By the way... A big problem for keeping maemo up to date are the closed blobs which won't run with a newer kernel. Isn't there a way of wrapping these modules? I can't find any sort of kernel module wrapper that would work across versions, but the general idea would be just like ndiswrapper. Is this so hard? |
| 14:19.46 | Gh0sty | like why do I need external party to sync my calendar with google calendar? :/ |
| 14:19.51 | Gh0sty | mail for exchange failure! |
| 14:20.04 | Gh0sty | even my E65 could do it! :( |
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| 14:22.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | Shapeshifter: *should* be feasible, just nobody thought about such botch yet |
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| 14:30.14 | Shapeshifter | So I installed kernel-power because I needed iptables. I'm not in the least interested in overclocking, however I noticed that my n900 uses more battery now. I looked into it and I'm not sure but I think it's stuck at 600mhz or something. kernel-config show shows me max. frequency: 600 but also current frequency: 600 |
| 14:30.34 | Shapeshifter | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:30.43 | Shapeshifter | where do I configure this thing? |
| 14:31.22 | Shapeshifter | or is there another kernel which just cares for the missing features and does none of this overclocking business? |
| 14:31.51 | ruskie | Shapeshifter, well I roll my own with stuff I want |
| 14:32.08 | ShadowJK | Many things that claim to check current cpu frequency use so much cpu themselves that they trigger the cpu to run at 600 |
| 14:33.31 | DocScrutinizer | afaik PK should be clean wrt cpuclock, ootb |
| 14:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | ask Pali |
| 14:35.14 | DocScrutinizer | max 600 is ok, there's *some* file *somewhere* ;-) that has the allowable freq etc |
| 14:35.42 | DocScrutinizer | leme find it for you |
| 14:36.17 | Pali | Shapeshifter: With console program kernel-config (in package kernel-power-settings) you can overclock/underlock cpu/dsp |
| 14:36.34 | Pali | kernel-config also set /etc/default/kernel-power |
| 14:37.39 | Shapeshifter | Pali: /etc/default/kernel-power doesn't exist and kernel-config isn't exactly great. No -h, --help... The wiki doesn't help either. |
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| 14:38.02 | Shapeshifter | Pali: the wiki says I can load and save and whatever, but there's no template. |
| 14:38.17 | DocScrutinizer | etc/pmconfig |
| 14:38.29 | Pali | run kernel-config without args (for help) |
| 14:39.00 | Pali | I think that is not good idea to modify pmconfig in kernel-power |
| 14:39.13 | Shapeshifter | Pali: mh |
| 14:40.14 | DocScrutinizer | scaling_governor ondemand |
| 14:40.15 | DocScrutinizer | scaling_max_freq 600000 |
| 14:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | scaling_min_freq 125000 |
| 14:40.37 | Pali | kernel-power also installs scripts which is started on boot (and it use own settings) so modified pmconfig maybe has no effect |
| 14:40.48 | Shapeshifter | Pali: Okay I didn't change any defaults, and Idea why my n900 is using more battery? Also, powertop shows me that the cpu stays in state C3 a lot of time. is that normal? And I'm especially wondering about powertop telling me it's spending 3.3% of the time in C0 at 1150Mhz |
| 14:41.16 | Shapeshifter | C0 3.3%, C1 0.0%, C2 27.6%, C3 67.4%, C4 1.7% |
| 14:41.37 | Shapeshifter | or maybe I'm reading the table wrong |
| 14:41.41 | Pali | /etc/default/kernel-power should be only symlink to config file (which set and configure app kernel-config) |
| 14:41.44 | DocScrutinizer | seems there's a fat huge bug in PK, since max v45. Heard same complaints several times now |
| 14:42.07 | Shapeshifter | meh I'll uninstall it. |
| 14:42.19 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: powertop fails on PK |
| 14:42.54 | Shapeshifter | How else can I read out state ratios? |
| 14:43.07 | DocScrutinizer | proc or sys |
| 14:43.11 | DocScrutinizer | I guess |
| 14:43.18 | Pali | Sorry but I did not read all patches in kernel-power, maybe there is something bad with battery (as bad i2c patch) |
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| 14:43.50 | Shapeshifter | Pali: do you know if the uninstall guide for it is up to date? |
| 14:43.55 | Shapeshifter | in the wiki |
| 14:44.15 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: uninstall what? |
| 14:44.17 | Pali | I tried clean some patches and drop not used in my git tree |
| 14:44.26 | Pali | I do not know what is written on wiki |
| 14:44.28 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: kernel-power |
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| 14:44.49 | DocScrutinizer | you NEVER uninstall a kernel - you install a new kernel |
| 14:44.50 | Pali | but uninstalling kernel-power should work from Menu |
| 14:45.03 | Shapeshifter | It says I need to do apt-get install --reinstall -y kernel kernel-flasher; apt-get remove -y kernel-power kernel-power-modules |
| 14:45.05 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: afaik it doesn't |
| 14:45.15 | Pali | in <= v47 should be entry Deinstall |
| 14:45.29 | Pali | and in >= v48 is entry Nokia Kernel |
| 14:45.49 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: sounds about correct |
| 14:46.12 | Pali | but this only reflash stock kernel: apt-get install --reinstall -y kernel kernel-flasher |
| 14:47.00 | Pali | and this (when stock is working and booting) remove kernel-power from system: apt-get remove -y kernel-power kernel-power-modules kernel-power-flasher |
| 14:48.03 | DocScrutinizer | I'd install kernel-modules as well |
| 14:48.08 | DocScrutinizer | just in case |
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| 14:51.13 | Shapeshifter | man the power meter sure is inaccurate. |
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| 14:52.19 | DocScrutinizer | powe meter? |
| 14:52.58 | Shapeshifter | battery power |
| 14:53.18 | Shapeshifter | even plain experience is a better indicator of how much battery is left than this thing |
| 14:53.43 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 14:54.24 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube (~ghost@unaffiliated/ghostcube) |
| 14:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | does it have a seal "approved by DocScrutinizer, master of batteries"? No? see! |
| 14:55.01 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: so how's that bme replacement coming? |
| 14:55.07 | Shapeshifter | I'm hardly up to date |
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| 14:56.22 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: project got binned when it became obvious it's leading nowhere, at least for maemo |
| 14:56.39 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: why is that? |
| 14:57.34 | Shapeshifter | ruskie: for compiling your own kernel, does this guide look okay to you? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide I will need to do that for iptables support... |
| 14:58.14 | DocScrutinizer | ~jrbme is http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1006716&postcount=806 |
| 14:58.14 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 15:00.02 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: what's h-e-n? |
| 15:00.11 | DocScrutinizer | ~h-e-n |
| 15:00.11 | infobot | hostmode is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging |
| 15:00.44 | ruskie | Shapeshifter, I use this guide http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel |
| 15:01.04 | Shapeshifter | ruskie: thanks |
| 15:02.38 | ruskie | Shapeshifter, though none of his scripts |
| 15:03.04 | TimmyT | this is the list of repositories i've added in my phone:http://pastebin.com/cugW20YK when i run apt-get update i get this errors:http://pastebin.com/GsT66158 . whats its problem? |
| 15:03.50 | ruskie | you only really want the fremantle ones |
| 15:03.56 | ruskie | and you're missing the repository key |
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| 15:13.42 | DocScrutinizer | yes, diablo is not fremantle, diablo is for N8x0 |
| 15:14.03 | DocScrutinizer | no idea though about the pubkeys for Nokia repos |
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| 15:14.54 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder how they could be gone, first instance (the Nokia repos) |
| 15:16.14 | DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: I also doubt https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle1.2/ovi/ is actually useful for a PR1.3 system |
| 15:17.01 | pavi | Why is still http://maemo.nokia.com/ on the topic ? its a broken page , maybe a link to a http://web.archive.org/web/20091229194029/http://maemo.nokia.com/ ( links wont work ) |
| 15:17.28 | DocScrutinizer | diablo gregale chinook bora scirocco mistral W*T*F!?! |
| 15:18.36 | javispedro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Naming |
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| 15:18.48 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: indeed |
| 15:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 15:19.16 | javispedro | just remove it, there was nothing useful there |
| 15:19.30 | TimmyT | javispedro: remove wat? |
| 15:19.38 | javispedro | link to maemo.nokia.com |
| 15:19.41 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I know what those names' meanings are, I just wonder how you could get to include all into one apt repo list |
| 15:20.13 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: ah, ok, just saw the pastebin. |
| 15:20.21 | javispedro | lol. |
| 15:20.47 | javispedro | TimmyT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Naming |
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| 15:21.49 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 15:22.10 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED |
| 15:22.19 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 15:22.38 | DocScrutinizer | MEH |
| 15:23.01 | kerio | HEM |
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| 15:25.46 | DocScrutinizer | TimmyT: what'S been wrong with [2011-08-03 16:04:41] <andre__> TimmyT, http://fpaste.org/j2wD/ ?? |
| 15:27.35 | pavi | javispedro, just went to the wikipedia page ,some one mentions about a KDE4 port , " KDE 4 is being ported at the present time." will KDE4 work on N900 ? |
| 15:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | wy not? question is can you actually *use* it |
| 15:28.44 | DocScrutinizer | why |
| 15:29.08 | DocScrutinizer | *yawn* |
| 15:29.58 | DocScrutinizer | hates summer with those long days, with the evil daystar... |
| 15:30.30 | pavi | I mean is KDE4 on maemo repo ? |
| 15:30.38 | pavi | or some tweaking necessary ? |
| 15:30.43 | DocScrutinizer | prolly not |
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| 15:31.31 | DocScrutinizer | I'd guess if you can run KDE on maemo, then in a chroot similar to easydebian |
| 15:31.59 | pavi | I have easydebian installed . I think I better do apt-get install KDE on that |
| 15:32.10 | DocScrutinizer | I mean kwin != hildon desktop manager |
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| 15:32.35 | pavi | yes its different , so how will it work ? |
| 15:32.47 | pavi | or am I sounding too dumb ?? |
| 15:32.54 | DocScrutinizer | and without a real mouse KDE might get tedious on N900 |
| 15:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: that's not a dumb but rather an interesting question |
| 15:33.46 | pavi | I havent yet tried XFCE |
| 15:34.08 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: look, marble is a KDE app ported to maemo/hildon |
| 15:35.49 | DocScrutinizer | depending on what the maintainer did while "porting KDE to N900" you may find all sorts of adaptions, from plain KDE desktop running in a chroot (and basically unusable due to way too small buttons and menu ebntries etc), to KDE apps completely ported to hildon, like marble |
| 15:36.08 | pavi | yeah strangely I havent touched those desktop apps , only checked out iceweasel and openoffice . My uncle who wants MS office on every damn phone was happy to see OO ! |
| 15:36.57 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, what about Kubuntu mobile edition , how does it differ ? |
| 15:37.03 | Shapeshifter | the n900 is too slow for most of that stuff imo |
| 15:37.08 | Shapeshifter | unless you like waiting around |
| 15:37.19 | DocScrutinizer | never looked into OOo for N900, as it nevver occured to me to do this class of work on a <5" screen |
| 15:37.36 | pavi | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ARM/n900/ |
| 15:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: that's probably a complete OS meant to get booted (or chroot) on the ARM target platform |
| 15:39.25 | DocScrutinizer | I'll not look into buntkuh on N900, I even avoid touching it on x86 |
| 15:39.26 | Shapeshifter | I applaud that |
| 15:39.57 | pavi | same here , kubuntu uses its own kde builds which I hate |
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| 15:41.55 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: worse, buntkuh has too many "new awesome stuff" that's not at all in line with a standard linux. E.G. they were the first ones to push upstart IIRC |
| 15:42.06 | DocScrutinizer | I more or less hate upstart |
| 15:42.53 | Shapeshifter | unity is a bad joke |
| 15:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | (this changed a bit since I learned Lennart also doesn't like upstart and plans to replace upstart with again sth new) |
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| 15:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | aiui suse systemV init implemented dependencies and parallelism since ~10 years. So I don't exactly see why we need upstart, even less I see why we need something new replacing upstart AND sysV-init |
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| 15:47.00 | DocScrutinizer | on maemo we got an abomination of a chimera of upstart events and sysV init scripts |
| 15:47.20 | DocScrutinizer | I guess this is the way all upstart systems look like |
| 15:47.21 | javispedro | it's worse on harmattan =) |
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| 15:49.02 | fusi | winrars and good word |
| 15:49.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'm *really* keen to see Poettering's startupd (or whatever it's called) with upstart events *and* sysV initscripts on top as icing - UAERGH! |
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| 15:51.57 | DocScrutinizer | again a useless layer of abstraction over an existing working system (here sysV/upstart), just like PA is a useless layer of abstraction over ALSA, while it started to replace ALSA by sth "better" - I'm not seeing poettering to ever deliver on that one, nor on startupd |
| 15:52.05 | fusi | how many maemo developers are there? |
| 15:53.38 | DocScrutinizer | 514799 |
| 15:53.41 | fusi | afternoon btw ^^ |
| 15:53.47 | pavi | I screwed up my easy debian chroot by deleting some dpkg directory , what do I do now ? |
| 15:53.55 | fusi | cry |
| 15:54.04 | pavi | good one |
| 15:54.07 | fusi | ;D |
| 15:54.20 | fusi | dont know sorry |
| 15:54.27 | fusi | ive never done that myself |
| 15:54.27 | pavi | I removed /var/lib/dpkg/status |
| 15:54.59 | fusi | does dpkg run |
| 15:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: I guess you're screwed |
| 15:57.15 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, nopes asking in #debian :P |
| 15:57.19 | DocScrutinizer | your system may stll work, just apt etc won't |
| 15:57.25 | pavi | there is something called status_old |
| 15:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | hey |
| 15:57.36 | DocScrutinizer | there is? |
| 15:57.55 | fusi | wahey! |
| 15:58.00 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 15:58.01 | pavi | yep I have it an dlot of data in it |
| 15:58.16 | fusi | someone actually got useful advice from a linux irc chan :O |
| 15:58.21 | fusi | ; |
| 15:58.23 | fusi | ;D |
| 15:59.09 | pavi | fusi, that someone knows how to ask :P |
| 15:59.25 | idont | exit |
| 15:59.33 | idont | woops, wrong window focus |
| 15:59.58 | DocScrutinizer | ~debian pavi |
| 15:59.59 | infobot | ACTION tells pavi to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! |
| 16:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 16:00.06 | fusi | haha |
| 16:00.09 | trx | lol |
| 16:00.36 | fusi | yea thats generally my experience ^^ |
| 16:00.57 | pavi | lol , yeah we should read before asking ,learnt the hard way , no issues |
| 16:01.00 | DocScrutinizer | ~ubuntu trx |
| 16:01.00 | infobot | ACTION lovingly explains to trx in a way that causes trx to weep with gratitude that trx must read the fine, friendly manual |
| 16:01.27 | fusi | infobts back (: |
| 16:01.44 | DocScrutinizer | ~+uptime |
| 16:01.54 | fusi | yay |
| 16:02.59 | trx | ~botsnack |
| 16:02.59 | infobot | :), trx |
| 16:03.10 | trx | bots :) |
| 16:03.15 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, you are misusing infobot to spread FUD on debian |
| 16:03.23 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 16:03.32 | fusi | rofl |
| 16:03.47 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, by the way next weekend I am going to Minidebconf Pune,India :) |
| 16:03.57 | pavi | Will show N900 to everyone !! |
| 16:04.29 | pavi | http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/MiniDebConf2011/FAQ |
| 16:05.02 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: the trick will be you start laughing first, when they try to impress you with their rooted iPhones and andridiot crap |
| 16:07.28 | pavi | No not many people here in india root their phones |
| 16:07.58 | pavi | and also there are less smart phone usage |
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| 16:13.05 | fusi | 17:03 < pavi> Will show N900 to everyone !! |
| 16:13.08 | fusi | yea! |
| 16:13.38 | fusi | rooted iPhones bwaha |
| 16:14.36 | pavi | :) |
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| 16:15.18 | pavi | fusi, in a debian event N900 is always appreciated . In a 'shopping teen girls' event iphone is the god |
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| 16:17.39 | fusi | indeed |
| 16:18.30 | fusi | indeedi can ony assume ppl ho own them to be ignorant |
| 16:18.45 | pavi | damn that dpkg_status is corrupted , removing lines manually seeing a sample output of apt-cache show somepackage |
| 16:19.00 | fusi | eep |
| 16:21.25 | fusi | hmm |
| 16:21.55 | fusi | is possible to spawn a modal dialog from a telepathy-haze plugin options dialog? |
| 16:22.07 | *** part/#maemo lescrooks (~lescrooks@rhelbox2.uio.no) |
| 16:22.11 | fusi | need to get the user to enter thier pin somewhere |
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| 16:47.28 | RST38h | Anyone knows howI can restart scratchbox? It stopped finding moc |
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| 17:06.44 | reenignEesreveR | can i bulk download all the webos compatible games? |
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| 17:09.56 | TimmyT | Zahra: hey are u there? |
| 17:10.08 | TimmyT | Zahra: fvahid says he likes you a lot |
| 17:10.32 | TimmyT | Zahra: he says he wants to talk to you |
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| 17:12.08 | TimmyT | Zahra: u there? he says he luvs u |
| 17:14.03 | reenignEesreveR | ummm.... wondering if im really on freenode and not on dalnet |
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| 17:17.18 | TimmyT | ppl in #debian ro so unfriendly and in #slackware so friendly, dunnu if it is forbiden to talk friendly here or not |
| 17:21.18 | Sicelo | it has been said here before that nothing is OT unless someone else complains, or it's getting in the way of assistance being given |
| 17:21.35 | Sicelo | so we're friendly here, but :/ |
| 17:21.42 | Sicelo | disciplined too |
| 17:22.27 | Zahra | being not friendly with these kinds of stupids is better |
| 17:23.43 | pavi | is trying out meego CE |
| 17:23.56 | reenignEesreveR | i have a lot of repositories kkudged up in my mobile |
| 17:24.05 | reenignEesreveR | how can i fix it so them i have bare minimum |
| 17:24.16 | reenignEesreveR | could someone plz share their repos config? |
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| 17:24.44 | pavi | is shocked to see rpm replacing deb and zypper replacing apt-get |
| 17:25.01 | reenignEesreveR | is shocked to hear that! |
| 17:25.17 | reenignEesreveR | isn't meego debian based too? |
| 17:25.49 | pavi | reenignEesreveR, from what I heard novell has its influence over meego |
| 17:27.24 | reenignEesreveR | hmmm... |
| 17:27.30 | fusi | est way to invoke browser instance from c code in linux? |
| 17:27.32 | fusi | b |
| 17:27.45 | fusi | execvp? :X |
| 17:27.48 | fusi | system()? |
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| 17:28.18 | reenignEesreveR | is /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list the only file controlling repositories? |
| 17:28.18 | Sicelo | reenignEesreveR: meego rpm-based |
| 17:28.50 | reenignEesreveR | im talking about aemo |
| 17:29.07 | reenignEesreveR | gotta fix my screwed up repsotiroes |
| 17:30.01 | reenignEesreveR | could someone please help me fix my repos on n900 ??? |
| 17:30.55 | pavi | whats there to fix ? have you root terminal ? |
| 17:31.00 | reenignEesreveR | yup |
| 17:31.15 | pavi | then try apt-get update and see what happens |
| 17:31.18 | reenignEesreveR | it takes about 10 minutes to do an apt-get update |
| 17:31.25 | pavi | ahh connect to wifi |
| 17:31.34 | reenignEesreveR | i already am |
| 17:31.42 | reenignEesreveR | i think it is looking up many repositories |
| 17:31.48 | cehteh | how many repos do you have enabled? |
| 17:31.50 | reenignEesreveR | i need to get myself to minimum |
| 17:31.57 | reenignEesreveR | some friends tinkered around with my n900 |
| 17:32.02 | reenignEesreveR | i need to get rid of them |
| 17:32.05 | cehteh | with extras, testing, devel, cssu and so on it may be quite slow sometimes |
| 17:32.11 | cehteh | lol |
| 17:32.17 | reenignEesreveR | *them = repos :D |
| 17:32.20 | cehteh | never give your n900 away :P |
| 17:32.29 | reenignEesreveR | anyhow |
| 17:32.35 | reenignEesreveR | i need only extras and extras-devel |
| 17:32.51 | pavi | go to /etc/apt/ and check out config files |
| 17:32.55 | pavi | edit remove them |
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| 17:33.15 | reenignEesreveR | are all repos found in /etc/apt/ ? |
| 17:33.24 | pavi | yep ! |
| 17:33.41 | pavi | I dont think its the simple /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 17:33.56 | pavi | it is in some folder I guess |
| 17:34.09 | pavi | but inside /etc/apt/ for sure |
| 17:34.18 | reenignEesreveR | the only file i see having repostories is /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list |
| 17:34.22 | reenignEesreveR | and i have five entries |
| 17:34.43 | pavi | list them out |
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| 17:35.17 | reenignEesreveR | first three are downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle .... 1.2/ovi, /ssy/mo0, /ssu/apps |
| 17:35.36 | reenignEesreveR | the other two are extras and exras-devel from maemo.org |
| 17:36.06 | reenignEesreveR | are the first three necessary? |
| 17:36.26 | pavi | nokia stuff is necessary for sure |
| 17:36.55 | reenignEesreveR | then i think i already am on minimum |
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| 17:37.48 | reenignEesreveR | but mainly the problem is with downloads.maemo.nokia.com related repos ... they take long to get updated |
| 17:38.07 | reenignEesreveR | conssequently using app manager applicationsalso become very slow |
| 17:38.43 | ruskie | reenignEesreveR, it's already slow... not just because of that |
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| 17:40.43 | pavi | I think that ovi repo could be disabled if you dont want any ovi stuff |
| 17:41.17 | reenignEesreveR | have you ever found anything useful on ovi store? |
| 17:41.33 | pavi | lemme guess Angry birds ? |
| 17:41.46 | reenignEesreveR | anything else? |
| 17:42.04 | pavi | jurrasic roller coaster game |
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| 17:47.52 | reenignEesreveR | i guess my use of ovi is limited to angry birds |
| 17:48.06 | reenignEesreveR | and i can live without it now after playing the same levels over almost two years |
| 17:49.15 | reenignEesreveR | i have a background process "trackerd" which hijacks my drive |
| 17:49.19 | reenignEesreveR | can't i disable this service? |
| 17:49.40 | RST38h | https://picasaweb.google.com/luarvique/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCKaR39fjs8PNgAE#5636687252037733650 |
| 17:51.08 | reenignEesreveR | :O |
| 17:51.20 | wmarone | wow, latest FF beta for maemo is... not trashing my device |
| 17:51.25 | *** join/#maemo xkr47 (xkr47@a91-152-96-111.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:51.55 | cehteh | haha |
| 17:51.55 | hiemanshu | SpeedEvil: Hi, we are extending the meego.com N950 device program with 50 additional pieces received from Nokia. Have a look at http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/N950_Extended_Program |
| 17:51.58 | hiemanshu | guve ut a trt |
| 17:52.04 | hiemanshu | give it a try* |
| 17:52.06 | cehteh | wmarone: still slower than microb? |
| 17:52.13 | reenignEesreveR | http://downloads.maemo..nokia.com/ public key is not available :( |
| 17:52.23 | wmarone | cehteh: shockingly, it's giving microb a run for its money |
| 17:52.37 | reenignEesreveR | received this error while doing an apt-get update ... the suggested remedy is to run apt-get update |
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| 17:57.13 | pavi | reenignEesreveR, you can ignore the key |
| 17:57.31 | pavi | now you will be able to install stuff ( with a warning) |
| 18:00.54 | SpeedEvil | hiemanshu: Thanks for the note. |
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| 18:04.36 | reenignEesreveR | is it illegal to ask "how can i download all the FREE compatible webos games" ? |
| 18:05.17 | SpeedEvil | No, are there any free webos games? And I'm unsure if anyone's packaged them. |
| 18:05.44 | ds3 | doesn't webos run flash and as such... |
| 18:05.47 | hiemanshu | no free games, not for sale either, but there are ways to get it |
| 18:06.39 | ds3 | Ob complaint - why is it no other mobile OS/UI setup besides PalmOS has even come close to being as useful as maemo? |
| 18:07.04 | ds3 | Android on faster hardware just chokes whereas the N900 just keeps chugging along |
| 18:07.19 | reenignEesreveR | ds3, n900 isn't battery friendly as well |
| 18:07.46 | wmarone | hm |
| 18:07.59 | wmarone | I wonder if installing adblock isn't what kills ff mobile's performance... |
| 18:08.08 | ruskie | 4days |
| 18:08.23 | *** join/#maemo El_Angelo (~ElAngelo@xfce/contributor/ElAngelo) |
| 18:08.53 | reenignEesreveR | in an android's architecture's talk, he mentioned the rationale behind the their activity models which is essentially a multitasking killer .. but he was spot on when he said that the biggest concern to the mobile user is his battery; mobile apps developers don't and can't write power optimized code. |
| 18:09.01 | ruskie | is how long my n900 lasts on battery |
| 18:09.15 | reenignEesreveR | schools teach cpu optimization, memory optimization but power optimization is unheard |
| 18:09.19 | ruskie | reenignEesreveR, they are to lazy |
| 18:09.37 | reenignEesreveR | so they gave a transparent framework to the developers which does power management largely itself |
| 18:10.04 | reenignEesreveR | and it is true, android's battery life is generally much more than n900 |
| 18:10.46 | reenignEesreveR | when i am using my n900 really well, it drains in couple of hours |
| 18:10.54 | reenignEesreveR | the issue is probably not with hardware but the OS |
| 18:11.12 | reenignEesreveR | anyhow |
| 18:11.24 | reenignEesreveR | hiemanshu, so where/how can i get those games? |
| 18:12.05 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@tmo-096-195.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 18:12.14 | hiemanshu | reenignEesreveR: you will have to find them yourself, a google search will help a lot |
| 18:12.39 | reenignEesreveR | what would be the recommendgoogle search? :) |
| 18:12.48 | reenignEesreveR | well ... |
| 18:13.01 | reenignEesreveR | i just wanna be on the legally safe side ... thats about it |
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| 18:27.06 | LarsN | *boggle* |
| 18:27.19 | LarsN | that's twice now the microusb port has broken off the mainboard in my N900. |
| 18:27.23 | ds3 | reenignEsreveR: N900 is extremely battery friendly compared to the other stuff out there |
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| 18:27.53 | ds3 | android's activity model blows major chunks |
| 18:28.03 | ds3 | it is flawed to no end |
| 18:28.09 | LarsN | sending the phone to squaretrade for a second repair. This time with a note to epoxy the connector to the mainboard rather than just the four tiny solder points. |
| 18:28.35 | LarsN | ds3: you know I really like the N900, but having also had a Nexus One, I can't say the N900 is any more efficient when it comes to battery life. |
| 18:28.54 | LarsN | if i use either phone for "work" like tasks, both drain the battery pretty quickly if I'm not on 802.11 |
| 18:29.01 | ds3 | LarsN: I believe the Nexus One has a bigger battery, IIRC |
| 18:29.52 | LarsN | ds3: 1400mah vs 1325mah |
| 18:30.00 | LarsN | nearly the same imho :) |
| 18:30.20 | ds3 | Android is just unusable - N900 with the OMAP3430 vs an Archos tablet with the OMAP3640. and I can get the archos to choke |
| 18:30.23 | LarsN | but you're right, the N1 did have a slightly larger battery. |
| 18:30.36 | fusi | how do i load a new browser instance from c code in maemo? |
| 18:30.46 | ds3 | LarsN: still bigger. my problem with the Activity model is you are screwed if there are any bugs in the program |
| 18:30.48 | fusi | system("browser --url=blah") does not return |
| 18:31.06 | ds3 | i.e. going to some web pages can foo bar the browser til it either dies completely or you have to reboot |
| 18:31.14 | LarsN | ds3: I'd agree, with anything slower than the 1ghz snapdragon, and android 2.1 or greater is really really anemic from an end-user performance standpoint. |
| 18:31.21 | ds3 | being able to kill -9 browserd and browser is a major asset |
| 18:31.41 | LarsN | I'm not defending Android here.. :) |
| 18:31.48 | ds3 | LarsN: that's the thing... the N900 actually preforms tolerably unlike the A101 |
| 18:32.10 | ds3 | maybe it is background crap that I can't turn off but Android blows |
| 18:32.28 | LarsN | I do think from an "appliance" standpoint Android is a better platform. the N900 reminds me very much of all things linux (ubuntu maybe excepted) in that, it can do nearly anything, and well. but it requires a lot of fscking around.... |
| 18:32.28 | ds3 | this is an opinion I am coming to after using it in the field |
| 18:32.41 | LarsN | if you like, or at least don't mind tinkering, the N900 is an amazing device :) |
| 18:32.56 | LarsN | provided your micro usb port doesn't break twice in a month. |
| 18:32.59 | ds3 | LarsN: have you tried using and Android device as your primary device in the field ? |
| 18:33.10 | ds3 | s/and/an/ |
| 18:33.41 | ds3 | the N900 is actually useable in that context unlike the A101 |
| 18:33.49 | LarsN | ds3: the N1 was my primary hand held device for a year.... with a tethered netbook as a fallback in case of serious intervention... |
| 18:34.04 | LarsN | I'm a unix adminstrator for a hosting company. typing command line syntax on either device sucks. :) |
| 18:34.15 | LarsN | pipes especially. :) |
| 18:34.44 | LarsN | WiFi tethering was better on the N1. (it supported WPA out of the box) |
| 18:35.05 | LarsN | having a physical keyboard, a real terminal, and the ability to VNC to or from my phone on the N900 trumps that. |
| 18:35.08 | ds3 | the terminal software with soft keys for '|' makes ssh usable on N900 |
| 18:35.09 | Shapeshifter | Is there some way to symlink or otherwise link a directory from outside of scratchbox to inside the users home? I don't want to do my development inside a scratchbox directory, hence I tried something like ln -s /mnt/temp/vault/devel/python/flatmail/ /mnt/ext/s-1500-galaxy/stuff_exile/t_code/maemo_2011/scratchbox/users/shapeshifter/home/shapeshifter/flatmail but inside scratchbox (where the symlink shows up fine with ls -lah) I can't ... |
| 18:35.15 | Shapeshifter | ... cd into it: bash: cd: flatmail: No such file or directory |
| 18:35.18 | ds3 | the Android side can't even handly ctrl properly |
| 18:35.39 | Shapeshifter | ds3: wth do you mean by unusable? |
| 18:35.45 | LarsN | yeah... double press the scroll wheel (which was otherwise never used....) for a control.. |
| 18:35.49 | LarsN | was terrible. |
| 18:35.52 | Shapeshifter | ds3: you can bind | to whatever key combo you want |
| 18:36.13 | fusi | is there a channel on here for maemo developers? |
| 18:36.15 | Shapeshifter | mine's on fn+x |
| 18:36.19 | LarsN | Shapeshifter: on a touch screen only device the simple truth is, unix administraion is for the birds. :) |
| 18:36.27 | Shapeshifter | LarsN: oh of course |
| 18:36.37 | Shapeshifter | ds3 seems to be talking about the n900? |
| 18:36.42 | ds3 | Shapeshifter:opening images chokes on Android if they are large or too many or .... N900 just does it |
| 18:36.46 | LarsN | Shapeshifter: we were comparing and contrasting my experinces between the N900 and My older Nexus 1 |
| 18:36.50 | Shapeshifter | ahh |
| 18:37.02 | Shapeshifter | ds3: ah sorry. I read 'unusable' |
| 18:37.09 | Shapeshifter | instead of 'usable'. I'll be quiet :< |
| 18:37.19 | LarsN | really doing any serious administration (beyond restarting services etc.) usually causes me to break out a real terminal. |
| 18:37.29 | ds3 | Shapeshifter: on android it IS unusable! |
| 18:38.01 | Shapeshifter | ds3: I agree |
| 18:38.05 | LarsN | when I get my phone back from repairs, I'm going to factory reset it. |
| 18:38.09 | ds3 | I have done command line troubleshooting with the N900 terminal. it is quite doable |
| 18:38.28 | ds3 | for some reason systems like breaking only when you have traveled 600miles away from them! |
| 18:38.33 | LarsN | and see if I can finally get integration with our SOGo Calendar server, and my GMAIL calendar working correctly. (bi-directional.) |
| 18:38.46 | LarsN | ds3: it CAN be done. |
| 18:39.01 | LarsN | but it's much nicer to just tether to a 10" netbook and type on a real keyboard.... wouldn't you agree? :) |
| 18:39.04 | ds3 | LarsN: just for reference, I have also used the HP48 as a terminal for sysadmin work ;) |
| 18:39.24 | ds3 | not really... my 10" netbook is infected with Ubuntu |
| 18:39.46 | LarsN | mine's running Pc-BSD |
| 18:39.51 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@p579A5164.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:40.09 | ds3 | I really want to do away with the netbook which is why I got the 10" tablet |
| 18:40.14 | LarsN | 95% of the servers I manage are running FreeBSD, it was a natural fit. |
| 18:40.36 | ds3 | bbl, lunch |
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| 18:45.23 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, ping? |
| 18:45.49 | SpeedEvil | pong |
| 18:48.08 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/08/nokia-n950-community-device-program-additional-50-units/ |
| 18:48.10 | GeneralAntilles | So, make your application count. :P |
| 18:49.10 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: yes - I have a placeholder entry on the list which I'm expaning somewhat. I regret I poorly qualify on extant code, so it may not be in scope. |
| 18:49.15 | SpeedEvil | expanding. |
| 18:52.03 | pavi | SpeedEvil, and other meego fellas go to #meego :P |
| 18:52.16 | GeneralAntilles | pavi, they don't like our kind there. :P |
| 18:52.18 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, good luck, hope you get one |
| 18:53.10 | pavi | GeneralAntilles, ohh thats a tricky situation :) anyways I am telling cause I now ended up with zapper issues on meego CE in n900 |
| 18:53.29 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: Thanks. |
| 18:53.40 | pavi | *zypper |
| 18:55.30 | *** join/#maemo mintux (~mrg@unaffiliated/mintux) |
| 18:57.32 | pavi | #meego has more people but this channel sounds more vibrant :) |
| 18:57.49 | GeneralAntilles | Longer history |
| 18:57.55 | *** part/#maemo mintux (~mrg@unaffiliated/mintux) |
| 18:58.01 | GeneralAntilles | Most people are here as enthusiasts. |
| 18:58.10 | GeneralAntilles | Very few of us are actually making money from it. |
| 18:58.20 | GeneralAntilles | Though that number is steadily increasing as Nokia snaps them up. |
| 19:02.46 | Shapeshifter | mhhh. So I installed python-pyside in scratchbox yet if I do import PySide I get "No Module named PySide". The files are there in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/PySide/ so what the hell? |
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| 19:03.29 | Shapeshifter | mhh |
| 19:03.32 | Shapeshifter | python2.5 it is then |
| 19:03.59 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, where's your project proposal page? |
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| 19:10.52 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: http://wiki.maemo.org/User_talk:Speedevil/Projects - unfortunately bare. |
| 19:12.17 | SpeedEvil | The amount of extant code I have is small, hence I suspect out-of-scope. The linked earlier proposal contains more ideas. |
| 19:12.24 | SpeedEvil | But those are not actual code. |
| 19:14.01 | SpeedEvil | Own fault really - I could have made a better stab at in-scope proposals if I was learning QML rather than poking around the security infrastructure and insulating house. |
| 19:14.17 | GeneralAntilles | Who would've guessed there's be another round. . . . |
| 19:15.16 | SpeedEvil | And yes. It's totally my fault. :) |
| 19:17.16 | *** join/#maemo auenf (David@171.72.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 19:19.23 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@2001:c08:3700:ffff::24:2f6a) |
| 19:20.34 | Shapeshifter | mh. quick question, does it make sense to develop something using QML for maemo5? |
| 19:20.43 | Shapeshifter | because I wonder if I should bother learning it |
| 19:21.11 | SpeedEvil | From what I've read so far in the tutorials, it does seem like a very interesting paradigm. |
| 19:22.53 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 19:26.58 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_ (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 19:32.32 | *** join/#maemo mesx (~mesx@89-172-231-51.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 19:32.35 | *** join/#maemo dunelj (~lililjlj@14-200-75-133.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 19:34.58 | pavi | with no one supporting my question at #meego I guess QML is not worth it ! |
| 19:35.21 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you are co-author of H-E-N |
| 19:35.48 | *** join/#maemo an0therb0x (~priest@pool-96-255-88-180.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:36.05 | SpeedEvil | I find it hard to say that not writing code. |
| 19:36.14 | SpeedEvil | I suppose that is a valid point though. |
| 19:36.45 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 19:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: in a shared effort, those who contribute knowledge and specs and datasheets and concepts and ideas are as important as those who hit the kbd to get code done |
| 19:37.12 | Venemo | pavi, what is your question? |
| 19:37.24 | DocScrutinizer | probably of even higher importance |
| 19:38.12 | pavi | Venemo, check #meego , I had issues with zypper |
| 19:38.51 | Venemo | pavi, oh. sorry, I have no idea at all about zypper. but then how can you conclude from a problem with zypped that QML is not worth it? |
| 19:38.56 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I promise this time you'll get a N950, no matter how |
| 19:39.23 | pavi | Venemo, I am talking of the community support , it matters the most to me , not some technology |
| 19:39.56 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Added that to the application. |
| 19:40.07 | SpeedEvil | I do wonder how many applications I've poked people into doing. |
| 19:40.23 | LarsN | DocScrutinizer: didn't the N950 get scrubbed. |
| 19:40.24 | *** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.74.90.239) |
| 19:40.37 | Venemo | mhm |
| 19:40.41 | LarsN | with swipe.nokia.com (N9) as it's "replacement" |
| 19:41.03 | Venemo | LarsN, hmm? |
| 19:41.04 | LarsN | ^ is meego, sorta. |
| 19:41.27 | LarsN | (I hosted two servers in the launch day CDN for that site:) ) |
| 19:41.36 | pavi | LarsN, link |
| 19:41.49 | LarsN | https://swipe.nokia.com |
| 19:42.03 | *** join/#maemo TimmyT (~timmy@unaffiliated/timmyt) |
| 19:42.11 | LarsN | minus the S I suppose. |
| 19:42.14 | pavi | nopes I thought you had the older one |
| 19:42.39 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-89-241-6-41.as13285.net) |
| 19:42.49 | LarsN | pavi: I have an N900. I saw some of the leaked N950 images, which look a lot like the E7 |
| 19:42.50 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-kzbwxopskalujjnn) |
| 19:43.05 | LarsN | but as far as I can tell that phone, if it ever existed, was scrubbed. |
| 19:43.16 | pavi | ohh |
| 19:43.33 | pavi | What about nokias free phone offer for meego code ? |
| 19:43.53 | ruskie | I thought that was the N950 |
| 19:43.56 | ruskie | it's just not for sale |
| 19:44.04 | ruskie | and like alpha or beta stage everything |
| 19:44.46 | an0therb0x | is the N9 ever going to be released |
| 19:45.00 | LarsN | an0therb0x: sure, about a year and a half too late for it to matter. |
| 19:45.13 | Tronic | No, they are just fooling to people into developing software for it, for nothing. |
| 19:45.17 | ruskie | and to locked down to actually be relevant |
| 19:45.19 | ShadowJK | around christmas i think |
| 19:45.34 | pavi | a guy who owns a N900 works in nokia seimens and has a friend in nokai says next mont the build will be out commercially ! priced at around 900 USD |
| 19:45.47 | LarsN | ShadowJK: by then the Nexus Prime will be out, as will the iPhone 5, and Windows Phone 7.5 (mango) |
| 19:45.58 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p54A1FA5B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:45.58 | Tronic | If N900 were released now, it would still be a relevant device even if not top notch anymore. |
| 19:46.05 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 19:46.19 | pavi | Lets see which comes out first N9 or mango phone from nokia ! |
| 19:46.22 | LarsN | Tronic: I agree. I just wish it had a bit faster processor, and a capacitive touch screen. |
| 19:46.28 | Tronic | pavi: N9 will come out first. |
| 19:46.31 | Venemo | who the heck will pay 900 USB for this? |
| 19:46.39 | LarsN | oh.... and a micro usb port that wasn't assembled by a 5th grader. |
| 19:46.50 | Tronic | pavi: My personal guess is late September, maybe October. |
| 19:46.51 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: If it's picked up by carriers, it's ot $900 |
| 19:46.56 | LarsN | (twice in a month and a half my phone goes back to get the micro usb replaced) |
| 19:47.23 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, unless it will be very-VERY cheap at my carrier, I'm not buying. |
| 19:47.24 | pavi | Venemo, N9 has a touch screen which is far superior than N900 that should attract the "shopping girls "type :D |
| 19:47.33 | Venemo | pavi, hehe |
| 19:47.48 | Venemo | pavi, my GF didn't like it that much |
| 19:47.49 | lcuk | Tronic, n900pavi that requires sms to be above next generation |
| 19:47.59 | an0therb0x | LarsN: why does Nokia take so long to bring their devices to market |
| 19:48.02 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF59AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:48.07 | Venemo | it is too easy to miss with a capacitive touch screen |
| 19:48.08 | lcuk | Venemo, my missus adores her n8 |
| 19:48.13 | pavi | aka N9 would be attractive for iphone users with a pink colour lol I could guess the audience ! |
| 19:48.16 | Venemo | lcuk :) |
| 19:48.24 | LarsN | the iPhone, and Android integrate with social media a lot better than the N900. However the N900 is a far more powerful (in terms of what you can make it do) device than Android or the iPhone in my opinion. |
| 19:48.53 | LarsN | an0therb0x: I think Nokia likes being in last place in the Smart Phone market. |
| 19:49.01 | lcuk | LarsN, what can you do with n900 that you cannot do with iphone? |
| 19:49.08 | LarsN | an0therb0x: it's a self defeating business model. |
| 19:49.22 | Tronic | I just hope that N9 has larger margins around the touchscreen or some software hacks to prevent my palms getting detected when I am only holding the phone or trying to point something with my thumb. |
| 19:49.36 | Venemo | lcuk, well, my gf tried using the N950 for some stuff, and she just couldn't type with either the virtual keyboard or the qwerty... then she tried some web browsing, but missed a lot of times. then she just said "this is crap" and gave it back to me. |
| 19:49.40 | LarsN | lcuk: xforward openoffice from a desktop to the phone, (or any other x app on any of my other computers) VNC to the phone from a desktop. |
| 19:49.46 | pavi | India has a huge set of Nokia fans , they dunno that N900 existed ( or a non symbian phone existed ) .. and wow MS Deal is just what they all love ! |
| 19:49.47 | Venemo | anyway, I kinda got used to it myself |
| 19:49.50 | Tronic | On N950 that is one of the biggest problems. |
| 19:49.52 | an0therb0x | I wish the N9 had a 4+ inch screen |
| 19:50.00 | LarsN | lcuk: run Asterisk on the phone and route calls between say android the SIP connection at work, and the GSM radio. |
| 19:50.01 | lcuk | LarsN, ok "can" and would prefer to work that way |
| 19:50.11 | Tronic | an0therb0x: Then it wouldn't fit in my pocket anymore. |
| 19:50.29 | *** join/#maemo mase76 (~mase76@p5DD3B145.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:50.35 | LarsN | lcuk: how about.... it has a keyboard, which makes doing any sort of systems administration NOT a hair greying experience? :) |
| 19:50.41 | Tronic | an0therb0x: Jeans and other clothing have a small pocket on the right side, just suitable for a phone. |
| 19:50.56 | lcuk | LarsN, I am just trying to make you think |
| 19:51.02 | kerio | an0therb0x: openpandora! |
| 19:51.03 | pavi | Heck I can run apt-get update and apt-get install whateverIlike ! |
| 19:51.16 | lcuk | pavi, what is your favourite n900 app? |
| 19:51.18 | dunelj | Hi, is there anyone share N900 ui settings? |
| 19:51.20 | lcuk | that you have apt-get updated |
| 19:51.27 | an0therb0x | Tronic: 4.3 is almost "industry" standard |
| 19:51.31 | LarsN | lcuk: I've had an iPhone 3GS, a Google Nexus 1, and a Nokia N900 all while working in my current role. |
| 19:51.32 | lcuk | since apt-get only gets things published to the repositories |
| 19:51.36 | lcuk | just like apple or android |
| 19:51.37 | an0therb0x | scree size |
| 19:51.56 | LarsN | lcuk: by far, the N900 is the most powerful for my day to day life while on call. |
| 19:51.58 | lcuk | LarsN, current role? |
| 19:52.04 | pavi | recently apt-get installed mirror for the front camera ! |
| 19:52.08 | LarsN | I "don't" carry the netbook as frequently with the N900. |
| 19:52.09 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: (crap) hehe, to the point |
| 19:52.21 | lcuk | pavi, I understand other devices have similar apps in their catalogues |
| 19:52.23 | LarsN | I'm a unix administrator for a web hosting company. managing ~ 200 FreeBSD servers. |
| 19:52.28 | dunelj | Is there a kind of N900 ui, not about configurable but just suitable/comfortable for most people? |
| 19:52.30 | lcuk | please be clear when suggesting something |
| 19:52.34 | lcuk | LarsN, ++ |
| 19:52.35 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer :P |
| 19:52.38 | lcuk | real positive things now |
| 19:53.04 | pavi | lcuk, I hate UI's and added to that I love doing apt-cache search and grep the appropriate package then install it . |
| 19:53.32 | lcuk | pavi, console is a ui |
| 19:53.33 | lcuk | :) |
| 19:53.46 | pavi | lcuk, great revelation :P |
| 19:54.08 | lcuk | i just done know most of the spells and rune casting incantations |
| 19:54.15 | lcuk | prefers buttons and entry boxes |
| 19:55.06 | dunelj | Is there gesture to call out the Home screen? |
| 19:55.14 | pavi | and yeah by default I could easily edit apt config to add my own repo ! ofcourse in iphone cydia helps |
| 19:55.19 | *** join/#maemo mase76 (~mase76@p5DD3B145.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:55.22 | lcuk | dunelj, press gesture |
| 19:55.24 | lcuk | top left corner |
| 19:55.27 | pavi | but cydia after all uses debian package management |
| 19:55.39 | dunelj | lcuk: not everywhere. |
| 19:55.50 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:56.01 | dunelj | lcuk: there are most apps without that |
| 19:56.26 | lcuk | pavi, I have been using gcc to self build my own packages on maemo devices for years |
| 19:56.41 | lcuk | "apt-get install build-essential" is my favourite command to the n900 :) |
| 19:56.56 | SpeedEvil | G |
| 19:57.05 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Usually followed by |
| 19:57.08 | SpeedEvil | ~flashing |
| 19:57.08 | infobot | hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:57.12 | SpeedEvil | As you've filled / |
| 19:57.14 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, actually no |
| 19:57.22 | lcuk | its only 80mb |
| 19:57.23 | SpeedEvil | (I know, it barely works.) |
| 19:57.31 | lcuk | from clean flash it works quite well |
| 19:57.35 | SpeedEvil | (on a virgin system) |
| 19:57.42 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, it is the first thing I do |
| 19:57.48 | lcuk | and optification helped immesnely |
| 19:57.52 | *** join/#maemo nid0 (~nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 19:57.55 | dunelj | I had never flash my N900... |
| 19:57.56 | lcuk | especially when adding a few folders |
| 19:57.59 | lcuk | besides, it works |
| 19:58.07 | SpeedEvil | idly wonders what the result of a data protection enquiry to my phone company would be. |
| 19:58.36 | SpeedEvil | 'Please send me all information associated with my account, this would include both stored information, and any transient information at the time you process this request'. |
| 19:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | WTF is data protection inquiry? |
| 19:58.46 | SpeedEvil | (cellphone) |
| 19:58.53 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 19:58.59 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (~doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 19:59.04 | SpeedEvil | A Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act. |
| 19:59.17 | SpeedEvil | It's EU legislation, but wil probably have another name in germany. |
| 19:59.24 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 20:00.10 | Venemo | does the word 'tethering' refer to when I connect to the internet through my phone's modem? |
| 20:00.19 | DocScrutinizer | informationelle selbstbestimmung - an incredible german monster term of the kind we like so much, well some of us Germans |
| 20:00.22 | LarsN | Venemo: usually. |
| 20:00.35 | LarsN | Venemo: could be via USB, Bluetooth, (older and more traditional) |
| 20:00.38 | *** part/#maemo an0therb0x (~priest@pool-96-255-88-180.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:00.46 | LarsN | Venemo: or by turning your phone into a WiFi hot spot. |
| 20:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | it's so monstrous I'm not even sure I really got it right ;-P |
| 20:01.54 | SpeedEvil | That's quite long! :) |
| 20:02.07 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering as I'm already sending off a couple tomorrow. |
| 20:02.22 | Venemo | mhm |
| 20:02.24 | Venemo | thanks LarsN |
| 20:03.00 | DocScrutinizer | and of course simply "datenschutz (-gesetz)" |
| 20:03.40 | Venemo | anyone any idea about this? http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=28171#post28171 |
| 20:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | your inquiry usually called "selbstauskunft" |
| 20:03.48 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.237.169.191) |
| 20:05.24 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: Ah yes. Fun. |
| 20:05.34 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: hehe, I bet the answer will be "wait for yoghurt sport" |
| 20:05.37 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: The old 'damn you ICD, get out of my way'. |
| 20:05.45 | Venemo | :D |
| 20:05.55 | SpeedEvil | (assuming that IC is doing the connection managment on the n950) |
| 20:06.16 | LarsN | so there actually was a N950 device at some point? |
| 20:06.23 | Venemo | if the whateverspot app (that turns the phone into a wifi AP) becomes available on the N950, I could then use the wifi for this. but now not even that. |
| 20:06.25 | LarsN | or is that a nickname for an N900 running Meego? |
| 20:06.36 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@tmo-096-255.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 20:06.42 | DocScrutinizer | yes, until this morning a N950 sat on my desk in front of me |
| 20:07.00 | LarsN | and what did/does it look like? |
| 20:07.28 | DocScrutinizer | sigh |
| 20:07.38 | DocScrutinizer | LarsN: where you've been living? |
| 20:07.41 | LarsN | too many "false news story links" on the web. |
| 20:08.01 | LarsN | DocScrutinizer: the ones I had seen resembled the E7 with an macbook style chicklet keyboard. |
| 20:08.02 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, did you send it back or what? |
| 20:08.12 | LarsN | DocScrutinizer: clearly in the wrong country, and under a rock to boot. |
| 20:08.18 | DocScrutinizer | http://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0621/h_1308650003_5628d0de58.jpeg |
| 20:09.10 | LarsN | DocScrutinizer: that's the one I had seen.... I didn't know it actually saw the light of day though. |
| 20:09.10 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: not yet, I'm first waiting another few weeks if something changes for the beter regarding TC |
| 20:09.45 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, TC=? |
| 20:09.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 20:09.56 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism |
| 20:10.03 | Venemo | I know what Aegis is |
| 20:10.06 | *** join/#maemo auenf (David@171.72.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 20:10.09 | Venemo | I just dunno what TC stands for |
| 20:10.10 | Venemo | ~tc |
| 20:10.10 | infobot | i heard tc is Top Cat,Turbo C. Traffic Control, A program for defining QoS rules in 2.4 |
| 20:10.11 | DocScrutinizer | last URL |
| 20:10.16 | Venemo | aaah |
| 20:10.17 | Venemo | ok |
| 20:10.19 | villager | LarsN: N950 is not for sale, it's just given to selected developers so they can make software for the N9 |
| 20:10.20 | Venemo | :) |
| 20:10.29 | LarsN | villager: noted. |
| 20:10.42 | LarsN | villager: that "developer edition" was the giveaway :) |
| 20:10.44 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: you send yours back? |
| 20:11.07 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: not yet, I'm first waiting another few weeks if something changes for the beter regarding TC |
| 20:11.28 | cehteh | yeah hell freezes over |
| 20:11.34 | DocScrutinizer | (duh could have fixed that typo) |
| 20:11.49 | fusi | DocScrutinizer: is there a channel on here specifically for maemo developers? |
| 20:11.58 | fusi | hi btw o/ |
| 20:12.21 | Venemo | fusi, this is it. you could try #maemo-devel or #qt-maemo but those are quite abandoned lately methinks. |
| 20:12.24 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: maybe meegoCE comes to pace. Maybe somebody with a real clue about SDK and all that manages to build a aegis-free harmattan kernel |
| 20:12.27 | RST38h | Meanwhile: "In the latest Marvel Comic series 'Ultimate Fallout,' Miles Morales replaces Peter Parker who has been killed off by the Green Goblin. Morales is a half-black, half-Latino teen, and the creators haven't ruled out that he might be gay." |
| 20:12.37 | villager | LarsN: well yeah, but the point is, N950 will *never* be for sale... it just has similar hardware to N9 (plus keyboard) so developers can work with it |
| 20:12.50 | maybeWTF | so what's new about spiderman being gay? |
| 20:12.51 | DocScrutinizer | fusi: this channel is for maemo developers :-) |
| 20:12.59 | fusi | ah |
| 20:13.00 | cehteh | http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Meego-Netbook-zum-Niedrigpreis-1317719.html looks nice for that price |
| 20:13.00 | LarsN | villager: I figured that out when I saw the N9 press release. |
| 20:13.05 | fusi | k, thanks |
| 20:13.05 | RST38h | (the million dollar question is whether they can make him gay and lesbian at the same time, of course) |
| 20:13.07 | cehteh | (just about meego) |
| 20:13.13 | Venemo | fusi, feel free to ask on this channel, we'll help if we can :) |
| 20:13.25 | fusi | thanks :) |
| 20:13.27 | cehteh | i dont have hopes on nokia and smartphone .. but well, time will tell |
| 20:13.35 | fusi | i think this channel has sweet spots in terms of time of day ;p |
| 20:14.43 | pavi | I am a lil confused with harmattan , meego and next version of maemo all thanks to nokia , harmattan is technically maemo6 with Qt but not for n900 ,am I right ? or is it just meego ce ? |
| 20:15.02 | SpeedEvil | Harmattan has little to do with meego. |
| 20:15.08 | SpeedEvil | Harmattan is maemo 6 |
| 20:15.12 | Venemo | yeah |
| 20:15.18 | SpeedEvil | QML is being pushed heavily for it. |
| 20:15.21 | LarsN | pavi: if it makes you feel any better I'm just confused. :) |
| 20:15.38 | Venemo | Harmattan is Maemo 6. fortunately Harmattan is API compatible with the true MeeGo |
| 20:15.44 | pavi | If harmattan is maemo6 why cant n900 run it ? |
| 20:15.49 | fusi | its been a while since i coded straight c - got so used to c++ sugar heh |
| 20:15.57 | LarsN | When I get my N900 back, my only real goals are to get a calendar syncing bi-directionally with our SOGo server & Google Calendar. |
| 20:16.04 | Venemo | N900 can run MeeGo |
| 20:16.12 | SpeedEvil | pavi: Because it contains binary components not licenced to run on the n900, and probably technical reasons too. |
| 20:16.26 | LarsN | whether that's on Meego, or Maemo 5 doesn't matter much at all to me :) |
| 20:16.30 | Venemo | N900 could run Harmattan, but it is not running, mostly for marketing reasons |
| 20:16.30 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: why can't N810 run fremantle/M5 ? |
| 20:16.36 | pavi | Venemo, I am dual booting N900 with meego thats where I got the zypper issue |
| 20:16.56 | Venemo | if you could run Harmattan on N900, who the heck would buy an N9, |
| 20:16.56 | Venemo | ? |
| 20:16.57 | dunelj | Venemo: can you rip the N950 and try it on N900? |
| 20:17.13 | pavi | But DocScrutinizer Venemo Harmattan was built taking N900 as example or build hardware ? |
| 20:17.18 | Venemo | dunelj, I don't have the necessary knowledge to do that but there is a thread on TMO |
| 20:17.54 | Venemo | Harmattan is NOT for the N900, period. I could theoretically run, but it's just not released for that hardware. |
| 20:18.54 | pavi | Why cant there be a maemo update for N900 , nokia is no where the decission maker right ? |
| 20:19.03 | villager | LarsN: maybe you could beta-test the new SyncEvolution I uploaded to extras-devel a week or so ago, it now supports CardDAV/CalDAV in addition to SyncML |
| 20:19.07 | DocScrutinizer | so far we are happy when harmattan actually runs on N950 ;-P |
| 20:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | instead of simply bricking the device |
| 20:19.18 | pavi | community updates is not actual update |
| 20:19.44 | LarsN | villager: I'll make a deal with you. When my phone gets back (likely next week) I'll ping you here with a fresh installation of maemo on the phone and if I get stuck I'll pick your brain :) |
| 20:20.01 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: in fremantle there are several blobs that can't get updated |
| 20:20.10 | villager | LarsN: allright |
| 20:20.22 | DocScrutinizer | many of those block update of other parts of the system as well, esp kernel |
| 20:20.32 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, binay propreitary stuff which only nokia guys should update ? |
| 20:20.54 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: for same reason you won't get harmattan to run on N900 |
| 20:20.55 | dunelj | Venemo: I know, while if it can run and after few hacks, like portait to landsacpe, then N900 can use many apps for N9 then:D |
| 20:21.11 | villager | LarsN: it seems to work for me syncing google calendar at least |
| 20:21.21 | LarsN | villager: bidirectional sync? |
| 20:21.27 | villager | LarsN: of course |
| 20:21.35 | LarsN | awesome. |
| 20:21.38 | LarsN | that's using caldav? |
| 20:21.44 | villager | LarsN: yes |
| 20:21.46 | LarsN | should work fine for SOGo then. |
| 20:21.47 | LarsN | :) |
| 20:21.57 | Venemo | dunelj, problem is, N900 may not have the necessary computing power (especially regarding the GPU) to run that. |
| 20:22.12 | Venemo | dunelj, but most likely, you'll be able to use 90% of Harmattan apps on MeeGo CE as well |
| 20:22.45 | DocScrutinizer | ooohohohoh |
| 20:23.20 | Shapeshifter | provided someone bothered to repackage them |
| 20:23.41 | dunelj | Venemo: isn't the GPU the same... |
| 20:24.04 | DocScrutinizer | seems you can use a higher percentage of fremantle apps on harmattan without any recompilation that I guess will be the percentage of meegoCE compliant harmattan apps |
| 20:24.13 | dunelj | Venemo: and CPU can be overclocked quite easily to 850Mhz or 1000Mhz. |
| 20:24.50 | Venemo | dunelj, N950 GPU has twice the speed of the N900's |
| 20:25.00 | Venemo | actually all the animations and scrolling are seamless onit |
| 20:25.13 | pavi | http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/Maemo says that maemo is Based on: Debian etch and lenny, plus the addition of some closed, proprietary Nokia boot blobs. Moving toward a more open, community based model, community info here http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 20:25.34 | *** join/#maemo antman8969 (6271c6f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.113.198.248) |
| 20:25.45 | pavi | Dunno how much I should believe of that ^^ |
| 20:25.55 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: that's for the update |
| 20:26.29 | pavi | update here just means few package updates |
| 20:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | >>Moving toward a more open, community based model,<< is mere nonsense, esp the reference to CSSU |
| 20:27.34 | Shapeshifter | the only thing that ever got opened was alarmd >.> http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 20:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | CSSU is NOT an alternative distro aimed at replacing maemo core by foss |
| 20:28.12 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, yeah you clarified that :) wish it had happened , then going to harmattan would have been a breeze ! |
| 20:28.23 | pavi | wishes openmoko had not died |
| 20:28.47 | Shapeshifter | the freerunner was just too big |
| 20:28.52 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: on hindsight I'm happy it did |
| 20:29.30 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise I bet GTA04 still wasn't ready to rollout |
| 20:29.49 | LarsN | pavi: I agree 100% |
| 20:29.56 | DocScrutinizer | not even GTA03 probably |
| 20:30.07 | LarsN | pavi: I was stoked about the openmoko project... android flat out axe murdered it. |
| 20:30.36 | DocScrutinizer | and GTA03 was pretty much obsolete the time OM gone pooof |
| 20:30.55 | DocScrutinizer | and it had a c-ts - uaerrgh! |
| 20:31.13 | *** join/#maemo evilbulgarian (~vladi@66-192-149-18.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 20:32.00 | pavi | android even murdered nokias smart phone friendliness |
| 20:32.02 | DocScrutinizer | so the smaller crappier version of N9, without any trace of a GUI faintly siuted for such a class of device |
| 20:32.22 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | LarsN: we had no need for android to commit suicide ;-P |
| 20:32.44 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, so can I run harmattan on virtual machine or SDK ? |
| 20:33.03 | DocScrutinizer | afaik you can |
| 20:33.08 | dunelj | I want E17 on my N900 now... |
| 20:33.16 | LarsN | DocScrutinizer: true, although that seemed to be the last nail in the OpenMoko's coffin. |
| 20:33.43 | DocScrutinizer | nah, believe me there were completely different reasons in the end |
| 20:34.15 | pavi | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html |
| 20:35.09 | LarsN | I waited and waited for the N950 to be released. I'm glad I jumpped ship to the N900 when I did. |
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| 20:35.29 | DocScrutinizer | android and esp iPhone just introduced that insane "differentiate!" idea into our developer meetings |
| 20:35.31 | LarsN | I like Maemo 5 a lot better than I liked the last build I had on the N810 |
| 20:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | and that pretty much conributed to OM's suicide in the end |
| 20:35.58 | LarsN | which was 2008.something IIRC |
| 20:36.04 | *** join/#maemo Oppo|n900 (~MrOpposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) |
| 20:37.08 | DocScrutinizer | meh, some of diablo's concepts are a pity they got binned on fremantle |
| 20:37.13 | pavi | LarsN, after the meego phone came out in demo , and the price was 900 usd with meego ( zypper and rpm ) with no qwerty .. I ran around all stores I could for n900 |
| 20:37.49 | pavi | had a hell lot of fight with friends convincing why not android , why not pinch zoom ! |
| 20:37.52 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: eh? |
| 20:38.32 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, I own a N900 only since 20 days . bought it with last months salary ! |
| 20:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | there's no meego phone with zypper yet |
| 20:39.35 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, atleast thats what I assumed ! add MS deal meego falling apart ,frankly never liked the Novell gang ! |
| 20:39.48 | DocScrutinizer | except maybe for meegoCE version on N900 |
| 20:39.55 | Venemo | yeah |
| 20:40.06 | antman8969 | far from usable though |
| 20:40.09 | pavi | I am more than happy with N900 ! |
| 20:40.24 | LarsN | I have a love hate relationship with my N900 |
| 20:40.28 | pavi | Meego CE is quite slow , the touch takes lot of time to respond |
| 20:40.46 | pavi | someone at #meego told me that it needs to build cache |
| 20:40.47 | Venemo | pavi, when did you try? |
| 20:40.54 | antman8969 | a lot of the performance most people experience is related to running it from the mmc I would assume |
| 20:41.03 | pavi | Venemo, since yesterday ! |
| 20:41.05 | DocScrutinizer | as things are right now, it seems I'll stay with N900 and M5 for the next couple of years |
| 20:41.07 | LarsN | it does a lot of things very well. being a "user friendly appliance" isn't one of them. Having a robust micro-usb port isn't one of them either. |
| 20:41.10 | LarsN | :) |
| 20:41.22 | pavi | antman8969, exactly from MMC , how much speed difference ? |
| 20:41.55 | antman8969 | well I've tried it from the emmc, overwriting Maemo and there was a SLIGHT speed difference |
| 20:41.58 | Venemo | I tried MeeGo DE (CE wasn't around yet) from the N900's eMMC. this was around march or april. it was very quick and responsive then. |
| 20:41.58 | antman8969 | but then again |
| 20:41.59 | antman8969 | not enough to justify |
| 20:42.07 | antman8969 | it was never meant to be an end user install |
| 20:42.38 | LarsN | I have a Class 10 micro sd on it's way. plan on loading Meego on that when both devices are in the same place at the same time. |
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| 20:42.53 | ShadowJK | it reacts fast enough for me, though launching apps takes ages. all animations and such are supersmooth |
| 20:43.03 | antman8969 | thats what I did too larsn... lol it's not really a day and night difference. |
| 20:43.16 | LarsN | antman8969: vs the class 4 I have now it can't hurt |
| 20:43.16 | antman8969 | doing anything that requires loading into ram takes ages |
| 20:43.16 | ShadowJK | still hasn't seen a fast class 10 |
| 20:43.27 | pavi | Tell me about the damned USB port , scared the hell out of me . I used the default cable which works only on my netbook but not on other desktops , it gets inserted to the slot very hardly . I am using the android cable which sony ericsson has given to my freind works perfect |
| 20:43.28 | LarsN | antman8969: even for taking pictures in M5 :) |
| 20:43.53 | antman8969 | shadowjk makes a good point. A lot of class 10s you see don't really maintain a 10 mbps transfer rate... |
| 20:44.02 | antman8969 | it's border criminal imo |
| 20:44.07 | ShadowJK | um |
| 20:44.08 | antman8969 | they can pretty much sell w/e they want |
| 20:44.26 | LarsN | pavi: the port came out of the phone when I unplugged the cable 6 weeks ago. I got the phone back from square trade after being repaired about 10 days ago.... the port is detached (at least two of the four pins) again. |
| 20:44.29 | ShadowJK | they'd maintain 10M if you used them in a videocamera |
| 20:44.36 | LarsN | going back to square trade tomorrow for a second repair |
| 20:44.49 | ShadowJK | but for operating systems, class 10 is currently most likely slower than class 4 |
| 20:45.05 | antman8969 | lame |
| 20:45.18 | ShadowJK | however, it's complicated, because sandisk class 2 will most often beat kingston class 6, for example |
| 20:45.24 | LarsN | ShadowJK: I'll give it a shot. This is a Patriot Class 10 i ordered. |
| 20:45.39 | antman8969 | that's what I got larsn |
| 20:45.40 | ShadowJK | but then there's about 99.9% fake sandisk on ebay, and 50% elsewhere |
| 20:45.45 | LarsN | I've got a Patriot Class 4 now. as well as a sandisk class 4 (come very close to one another) |
| 20:45.49 | Venemo | what's the point of that? |
| 20:45.55 | Venemo | just repartition the eMMC |
| 20:45.56 | ShadowJK | iirc the patriots scored poorly :P |
| 20:46.00 | Venemo | and you're good to go. |
| 20:46.04 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: always pull the USB plug by gripping it between end of plug and N900 case with your fingernails. I did that 1 hour while watching TV (1mm out, in again) and it works all smooth now |
| 20:46.07 | LarsN | if it sucks, it sucks |
| 20:46.10 | LarsN | not the end of the world. |
| 20:46.23 | LarsN | this class 4 works exactly as expected. |
| 20:46.43 | ShadowJK | http://www.sakoman.com/OMAP/microsd-card-perfomance-test-results.html |
| 20:46.55 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, thanks for the tip, anyways me going to sony ericsson shop for an android cable ! |
| 20:47.12 | ShadowJK | patriot class 10: 8000 seconds to boot. Sandisk class 2: 1803 |
| 20:47.13 | DocScrutinizer | whatever works for you |
| 20:47.21 | antman8969 | usefull shadowjk, thanks |
| 20:47.27 | pavi | :) |
| 20:48.08 | ShadowJK | oops, 6000 for patriot |
| 20:48.13 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: just never apply force to the plug other that strickly pulling it. Odds are you're doing exactly that when you grab it firmly - you'll bend and break it |
| 20:49.17 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, yeah I am always scared when things are too tight , if everything is in correct orientation/direction it should come smoothly or go inside the slot smoothly |
| 20:50.03 | LarsN | My updated instuctions to Squaretrade included suggesting they actually expoxy the connector to the circuit board. That surface mount solder points do not qualify as a mechanical connection. |
| 20:50.18 | LarsN | this second break is almost certainly the result of a bad repair the first time around. |
| 20:50.28 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: a pencil can help much, just "paint" the outer metal end of plug with graphite |
| 20:50.55 | DocScrutinizer | pavi: you'll possibly be amazed about the effect |
| 20:51.01 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, by the way I asked here about adding new keyboard layout , How do I contribute back to maemo :) |
| 20:51.01 | LarsN | What is this pencil of which you speak? |
| 20:51.06 | LarsN | DocScrutinizer: ^ |
| 20:51.13 | pavi | graphite conductor ? |
| 20:51.16 | ShadowJK | or you can spend an evening watching tv, pushing nail down on the microusb teeth |
| 20:51.28 | DocScrutinizer | the black pens you can earse with rubber eraser |
| 20:51.32 | LarsN | I think I read about those in the history books.... people used to input data in an analog fashion with them or something? :) |
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| 20:52.17 | ShadowJK | they have superior data retention |
| 20:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | actually I searched one today and couldn't find any at home :-P |
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| 20:52.38 | LarsN | heh |
| 20:52.43 | LarsN | alright guys, I'm done for the day |
| 20:52.48 | LarsN | see everyone soonish :) |
| 20:53.04 | pavi | LarsN, bye nice talking to you |
| 20:53.41 | DocScrutinizer | LarsN: ask chem|st about epoxy |
| 20:53.46 | DocScrutinizer | won'T stick |
| 20:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | LarsN: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 |
| 20:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | this is how you fix a USB properly |
| 20:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | haha, now it occurs to me like I could use my bare PCB to do a few test drills |
| 20:56.55 | SpeedEvil | How to fix USB properly. 1) Get time machine. 2) Make USB standards committee specify shorter plugs, and right-angle plugs. |
| 20:57.11 | DocScrutinizer | yoh SpeedEvil :-D |
| 20:57.12 | SpeedEvil | And dock connectors. |
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| 20:57.34 | SpeedEvil | And 'high power' USB with 30V@0.5A on request too. |
| 20:57.43 | pavi | SpeedEvil, you are a speed devil :P |
| 20:57.51 | bindi_ | 30V? |
| 20:58.18 | DocScrutinizer | why not 40? |
| 20:58.26 | SpeedEvil | bindi_: 30V is at the limit of what is 'super extra low voltage' (or something) in the EU. It can be used without much protection. |
| 20:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | ah ah ah |
| 20:58.50 | DocScrutinizer | not quite sure about that |
| 20:58.51 | SpeedEvil | But 15W will power quite adequately most devices near a PC that need power. |
| 20:58.52 | bindi_ | because volts will kill you |
| 20:59.03 | DocScrutinizer | I think there's sth about 42V, and even 60V |
| 20:59.13 | SpeedEvil | Possibly. |
| 20:59.22 | SpeedEvil | I thought it was 36 |
| 20:59.41 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, another one value commonly thrown in |
| 20:59.46 | Venemo | so how could then a phone ever emit 30V if it wanted to be a USB host? |
| 20:59.57 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: It couldn't. |
| 21:00.06 | DocScrutinizer | actually there's a plethory of DIN and VDE and dunno what regulations |
| 21:00.07 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, so? |
| 21:00.15 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: The idea would be that a hub/host could either be 'high power' or not. |
| 21:00.20 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, aah. |
| 21:00.39 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: If it was a high power hub/host, then you could plug devices in that knew about high power, wanted it, and could request it. |
| 21:00.44 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise, it's all 5V |
| 21:01.03 | DocScrutinizer | if USB could take 30V@0.5A that would be pretty sufficient for even smaller laptops |
| 21:01.04 | Venemo | mhmm |
| 21:01.22 | SpeedEvil | The high power side would only be used for rapid-charging ipads, or printers, or speakers, or ... |
| 21:01.27 | Venemo | now I need to leave. good night everyone :) |
| 21:01.30 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 21:01.30 | Venemo | I'll be back tomorrow |
| 21:01.40 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: o/ |
| 21:01.46 | bindi_ | gigabyte has that on off charge tech |
| 21:01.51 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, o7 |
| 21:01.54 | bindi_ | 1.5A off the usb port |
| 21:01.57 | DocScrutinizer | needs a pub-time |
| 21:02.08 | SpeedEvil | bindi_: It's not a standard though. |
| 21:02.20 | SpeedEvil | bindi_: It would be really nice if it was a stanard in the original spec. |
| 21:02.28 | bindi_ | yeah |
| 21:02.46 | DocScrutinizer | bindi_: wut? 1.5A over USB? heck, most connectors will fry on that |
| 21:02.56 | bindi_ | huh |
| 21:03.07 | bindi_ | made for apple product recharging |
| 21:03.22 | bindi_ | actually |
| 21:03.25 | bindi_ | it's 0.9A? dunno |
| 21:03.34 | bindi_ | it's called 3X power though |
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| 21:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | iirc some of the usual USB connectors are specified to no more than 1A |
| 21:04.19 | DocScrutinizer | some maybe 2A |
| 21:04.51 | DocScrutinizer | heavy duty versions my specify 2A for a type that's usually 1A |
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| 21:06.13 | DocScrutinizer | on 2A 5V you already start to cause electic erosion when you break the circuit by pulling the plug |
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| 21:07.20 | bindi_ | https://github.com/mkorenkov/ipad_charge |
| 21:07.52 | bindi_ | changes current of apparently any usb port to 1.1A |
| 21:08.04 | bindi_ | sounds bad |
| 21:10.02 | SpeedEvil | It configures the ipad to take 1.1A whether the port can supply it or not on a quick skim |
| 21:10.48 | DocScrutinizer | >>In Battery Charging Specification,[38] new powering modes are added to the USB specification. A host or hub Charging Downstream Port can supply a maximum of 1.5 A when communicating at low-bandwidth or full-bandwidth, a maximum of 900 mA when communicating at high-bandwidth, and as much current as the connector will safely handle when no communication is taking place; USB 2.0 standard-A connectors are rated at 1.5 A by default. A |
| 21:10.50 | DocScrutinizer | Dedicated Charging Port can supply a maximum of 1.8 A of current at 5.25 V. A portable device can draw up to 1.8 A from a Dedicated Charging Port.<< |
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| 21:31.34 | pavi | How do I remove a user from scratch box ? |
| 21:31.48 | DocScrutinizer | why would you? |
| 21:31.56 | pavi | # /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser pavi Scratchbox user account for user pavi already exists! |
| 21:32.19 | pavi | It doesnt work :( $ scratchbox bash: /usr/bin/scratchbox: Permission denied |
| 21:32.20 | DocScrutinizer | :shrug: |
| 21:32.24 | DocScrutinizer | fine no? |
| 21:32.47 | pavi | scratch box was previously installed for maemo |
| 21:33.07 | DocScrutinizer | I give up |
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| 21:33.30 | angelox|laptop | Which package provides 'ar' ? |
| 21:33.41 | pavi | :) let me try with another user |
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| 21:50.14 | pavi | went into a mess by deleting a directory inside scratch box . how to clean the entire thing up ? |
| 21:50.31 | DocScrutinizer | what's up with MohammadAG - no \o/ no nuttin |
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| 21:54.09 | pavi | DocScrutinizer, http://dpaste.com/585824/ is the mess I am stuck in |
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| 22:49.43 | dunelj | hi, does anybody know how to use Flash with FCamera? |
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| 22:55.38 | fusi | hehe |
| 22:55.47 | fusi | refactoring frenzy |
| 22:56.00 | fusi | ive borkened it :o |
| 22:56.58 | SpeedEvil | dunelj: I've never seen a way to enable flash on it. |
| 22:58.21 | fusi | i found the dbus cmdline to invoke a new browser |
| 22:58.37 | fusi | but it only works if the browser has been started |
| 22:58.38 | Termana | good morning |
| 22:58.41 | fusi | moinz |
| 22:59.09 | SpeedEvil | notes it's 23:59 here. |
| 22:59.19 | SpeedEvil | About as far from morning as it's possible to get. |
| 22:59.56 | fusi | u m uk too SpeedEvil ? |
| 23:00.04 | SpeedEvil | Yes. Fife. |
| 23:00.13 | fusi | :D |
| 23:00.16 | fusi | helloo |
| 23:00.27 | fusi | ross-on-wye \o/ |
| 23:00.51 | SpeedEvil | There are several UK people here. |
| 23:00.59 | fusi | any more uk frequent this place? |
| 23:01.02 | fusi | ah cool |
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