| 00:01.03 | SpeedEvil | Interesting - it gives fairly consistent results when plugged in |
| 00:01.16 | SpeedEvil | (not if charged of course) |
| 00:02.01 | ShadowJK | plugging it in prevents cpu from sleep |
| 00:02.31 | SpeedEvil | But it can still measure delta-I |
| 00:04.12 | ShadowJK | it's a bit more complicated, because there's the max current limit from powersupply, and the phantom resistance between bq24150 and rest of system |
| 00:04.33 | SpeedEvil | I know |
| 00:04.45 | SpeedEvil | It's in the 'sort of works' category |
| 00:04.55 | ShadowJK | can get somewhat accurate estimates of system load while charging by the voltage drop across that phantom resistance |
| 00:04.57 | SpeedEvil | As long as it's far from v_taper |
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| 00:10.54 | ShadowJK | 751 for the fairly worn :) |
| 00:11.11 | SpeedEvil | Wow. |
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| 00:14.49 | ShadowJK | (I calculated 1000 for that one with 900mA charge/discharge difference |
| 00:15.03 | ShadowJK | +900 / -900, so 1.8A delta |
| 00:15.08 | ShadowJK | approx |
| 00:15.38 | ShadowJK | ionic diffusion, and all that voodoo, I guess. |
| 00:20.31 | ShadowJK | Mugen 2.4Ah, among the first produced, ~100 cycles before I stopped using it: 259 |
| 00:23.25 | SpeedEvil | Seems sane |
| 00:24.00 | SpeedEvil | The newest one I have is from ebay - but I suspect it's a knock-off. 250 |
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| 00:30.35 | ShadowJK | Eastmaze, ~70 cycles: 220 |
| 00:31.29 | DocScrutinizer | now if bme was sane, it probably should adjust shutdown threshold by a function(AI) to account for the voltage drop in battery and parasitic R of circuit |
| 00:31.49 | ShadowJK | or adjust battery meter |
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| 00:32.18 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 00:32.58 | SpeedEvil | The one I just got came flat. |
| 00:33.10 | SpeedEvil | It may also havebeen in storage ages I guess. |
| 00:33.56 | ShadowJK | how flat? |
| 00:34.00 | SpeedEvil | 0v |
| 00:34.08 | DocScrutinizer | send back |
| 00:34.09 | ShadowJK | too flat |
| 00:34.11 | ShadowJK | yeah |
| 00:34.17 | SpeedEvil | Not actually 0v |
| 00:34.26 | SpeedEvil | actually - no - I think I measured it |
| 00:34.28 | ShadowJK | 250 seems good though |
| 00:34.31 | SpeedEvil | it was at 2.8 or so |
| 00:34.37 | SpeedEvil | But too low to turn on |
| 00:34.48 | DocScrutinizer | <3V is a dead nut |
| 00:34.58 | ShadowJK | 2.8 is hard shutdown threshold for gaia, maybe it's second hand :-) |
| 00:35.06 | nox- | battery off ebay? |
| 00:35.07 | SpeedEvil | Pondering if I can be bothered doing the RMA dance. |
| 00:35.11 | SpeedEvil | nox-: yes |
| 00:35.14 | nox- | heh |
| 00:35.42 | nox- | fake ebay batteries are not uncommon it seems... |
| 00:36.02 | SpeedEvil | The one I have - the label is somewhat distressed |
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| 00:36.11 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if it's a real label |
| 00:36.49 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, might've been more sensible to get a battery off of dr_frost's list :) |
| 00:36.54 | DocScrutinizer | I still haven't disassembled an original BL-5J yet, to see what protection they got for it |
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| 00:37.00 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Well - yes. |
| 00:37.08 | SpeedEvil | It was cheap though. :/ |
| 00:37.11 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 00:38.26 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering on saving the money on the bat, and spending on http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5600mah-emergency-power-rechargeable-battery-pack-w-led-flashlight-head-cell-phone-adapters-91411 or similar |
| 00:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | recently I learned some batteries just exploit the Vvlow cutout of protection for overcurrent protect as well, relying on internal Z before protection circuit |
| 00:38.34 | ShadowJK | japod from DX, unused: 232 |
| 00:39.53 | SpeedEvil | This reminds me - I need to find the bq* chips I bought on ebay |
| 00:40.00 | SpeedEvil | I need to hook some up as solar cell monitors |
| 00:40.10 | DocScrutinizer | duh |
| 00:40.10 | SpeedEvil | to log some data before I put my panels together |
| 00:41.00 | SpeedEvil | Got 600W of cells to solder up. :) |
| 00:42.43 | ShadowJK | you can get bq* on ebay? |
| 00:42.55 | SpeedEvil | You can get _everything_ on ebay |
| 00:42.58 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:43.10 | SpeedEvil | Almost. |
| 00:43.23 | SpeedEvil | Though my search for image intensified CCDs hasn't fired. |
| 00:45.03 | SpeedEvil | Complex searches are good. |
| 00:45.08 | SpeedEvil | http://business.shop.ebay.co.uk/Semiconductors-Actives-/36332/i.html?_nkw=-%28transistor*%2Cresistor*%2Ccapacitor*%2Cgates%2Cttl%2Cregulat*%2Cmicrocontrol*%2Cdiode*%2Cled*%29&_armrs=1&_from=R10&_ipg=&_pcats=4659%2C92074%2C12576&_sop=10&_dct=1&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH |
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| 01:02.11 | ShadowJK | my 3S 800mAh heli batteries are (measured with hobby charger) 228 (oldest, shittiest), 160, 81. That's total, so per-cell is a third of that :-) |
| 01:07.09 | SpeedEvil | Considerably larger li-ion |
| 01:07.13 | SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/user/liveforphysics532#p/u/5/NCpzXIPXdAQ |
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| 01:55.49 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 01:55.49 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: aw, gee |
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| 02:29.27 | fusi | how do i get a terminal in the build env in esbox? |
| 02:29.36 | fusi | so i can install dev packages into it? |
| 02:29.54 | fusi | can i do that through the maemo5 vm? |
| 02:30.12 | fusi | sorry for the questions |
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| 02:34.25 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: bantime again? |
| 02:35.28 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: two for one: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1061371&postcount=15 + un_abill |
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| 02:42.21 | DocScrutinizer | lol, a coward troll, deleting posts 5 minutes after posting offensive vulgar trolling |
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| 02:46.50 | pauly | hi anyone want to sell me their n8? |
| 02:47.23 | hatake_kakashi | why don't you source them off ebay? |
| 02:47.45 | hatake_kakashi | and how is this related to maemo anyway :p N8 = symbian powered device |
| 02:48.07 | Tronic | hatake_kakashi: Because you get N8 back when you send N900 for repairs |
| 02:48.33 | Tronic | => many N900 users end up with completely useless Symbian device. |
| 02:49.05 | hatake_kakashi | Tronic, indeed, but here is someone wanting to buy a N8, without any trade back for N900 :) |
| 02:49.22 | Tronic | pauly: So, have a look at auctions, I've seen a lot of warranty replacement N8 and lately E7 being sold there. |
| 02:50.14 | pauly | on ebay? |
| 02:50.31 | hatake_kakashi | ebay is just an example, there's plenty of other sources |
| 02:50.42 | pauly | where tell me! |
| 02:50.45 | pauly | :) |
| 02:51.43 | hatake_kakashi | isn't going to make an exhausive list of potential sources where one can purchase N8. Learn to use google |
| 02:51.47 | Tronic | The prices, in Finland, are around 150-170 ⬠for used N900, 250 ⬠for N8 in unopened package & two year warranty, 400 ⬠for E7 unopened package & warranty (and nobody will buy these). |
| 02:51.50 | pauly | do u think $200 range is good used? i sold my n900 for 180 |
| 02:52.56 | Termana | good morning |
| 02:52.58 | pauly | hatake_kakashi: i dont know of any other auction site? |
| 02:53.44 | hatake_kakashi | pauly, you can't google? there's plenty depending on which country you are in or which country you may want to source your N8 from |
| 02:54.13 | pauly | im talking used not new |
| 02:54.26 | pauly | ebay is only auction site i know |
| 02:54.29 | hatake_kakashi | local newspapers may also contain second hand goods |
| 02:54.36 | pauly | usa |
| 02:54.50 | hatake_kakashi | I never said I was talking about new. If I were to say new, I would have recommended Nokia site :p |
| 02:55.03 | hatake_kakashi | there's craiglist iirc that's for stateside |
| 02:55.29 | pauly | craigslist sucks no one uses nokia devices around here |
| 02:55.39 | pauly | mostly htc and apple |
| 02:56.00 | hatake_kakashi | err Iãmeant local newspapers may also contain a section for people selling, wanting to buy, etc stuff. |
| 02:56.27 | pauly | a nokia phone lol not popular here |
| 02:56.41 | SpeedEvil | Ebay is it then. |
| 02:56.48 | pauly | yeah |
| 02:57.01 | Tronic | pauly: Yeah, too bad that you cannot buy N950 and N9 will probably not be available in USA either. |
| 02:57.05 | pauly | hey Speedevil wheres your n8 :) |
| 02:57.05 | hatake_kakashi | it maybe rare to find one but its not like as if it doesn't exist |
| 02:57.30 | DocScrutinizer | pauly: haha, still searching an N8? |
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| 02:57.41 | pauly | yes |
| 02:58.16 | SpeedEvil | pauly: I don't have one - or want one. |
| 02:58.30 | pauly | my bad |
| 02:59.53 | hatake_kakashi | I can't imagine any maemo fanatics would want a symbian powered device |
| 02:59.58 | pauly | <DocScrutinizer: i still havent backed up my data from the broken n900 lol |
| 03:01.12 | pauly | i lost the metal`1z |
| 03:01.18 | antman8969 | pauly, out of curiosity, why would you ever want an n8? |
| 03:01.46 | DocScrutinizer | Tronic: wtf?! N9 not available in USA? citation needed - or stop spreading fud please. |
| 03:02.54 | antman8969 | I don't know what that even means. What's to stop us from buying it from Europe and shipping it to the US? |
| 03:02.56 | Termana | My N950 is sitting at my major city waiting to be processed by customs |
| 03:03.05 | Termana | It so far, yet so near |
| 03:03.08 | Termana | :p |
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| 03:03.50 | DocScrutinizer | Termana: drink a cup of tea with MohammadAG ;-D |
| 03:04.46 | ML-37 | hey docc |
| 03:04.49 | ML-37 | err.. |
| 03:05.03 | loft306 | DocScrutinizer,* |
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| 03:06.24 | DocScrutinizer | (not available) I'd be really surprised if Nokia wouldn't sell the first 9-band phone that really can deal with the 3rd world mess in USA exactly there in USA where the 9band makes most sense, and the warranty situation is better for manufacturers than anywhere in Europe |
| 03:06.30 | loft306 | my n900 has created another casualty ... the speakers in my pick-up are toast... i switched to a patch cable from using the fm tranmitter as there is something on every frequency now and the fm boosted crashed on my device |
| 03:07.39 | DocScrutinizer | o.O what? |
| 03:07.56 | loft306 | great full range output... |
| 03:08.19 | loft306 | oem speakers being better than they used to be but not good eenough |
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| 03:08.58 | DocScrutinizer | scratches head and wonders how to parse a single word of loft306 's story |
| 03:09.48 | loft306 | heh im getting ahead of self again |
| 03:10.11 | loft306 | imm tired been in confrences all day |
| 03:10.15 | hatake_kakashi | seems like his fm booster is the culprit if Iãread that right |
| 03:10.22 | loft306 | no |
| 03:10.34 | loft306 | i was hardwired into the line in |
| 03:10.44 | SpeedEvil | FM booster boosts the output from maybe 30nW to 50nW |
| 03:10.52 | SpeedEvil | It's nowhere near the power to damage anything |
| 03:10.56 | hatake_kakashi | then rephrase what you said about "fm boosted crashed my device" |
| 03:11.08 | loft306 | as i wasnt able to broadcast with enough power to drown out the fm stations |
| 03:11.44 | loft306 | fm booster didnt craash the device it just crashes on startup |
| 03:11.48 | loft306 | cant use it |
| 03:12.16 | loft306 | i had too many thoughts running together |
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| 03:33.04 | Tronic | DocScrutinizer: http://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset.cfm/2011/07/07/nokia_n9_n_tulossa_sittenkin_useampaan_maahan and other Finnish media. Yes, it is rumors, but it is based on Nokia websites. |
| 03:34.13 | Tronic | Germany, France, UK and USA are missing but a lot of smaller markets are listed. |
| 03:35.34 | Tronic | But then, it has been submitted to the FCC, which would suggest that they plan to release, I suppose. |
| 03:35.36 | DocScrutinizer | Tronic: there's a perfectl explanation for that: the online stores will close or already did. That doesn't mean Nokia won't ship N9 thru other channels |
| 03:36.02 | DocScrutinizer | like Amazon |
| 03:36.06 | Tronic | Either way, it is impossible to tell what the company is doing these days. It seems that different parts of it are doing quite the opposite of each-other. |
| 03:36.21 | DocScrutinizer | true that |
| 03:37.54 | DocScrutinizer | but the "Will not be available in $random-country" is clearly based on a WTF-moment about the short list of countries for availability check *through Nokia webshop* |
| 03:38.53 | maybeArgh | tronic: that has been true for a few years now |
| 03:38.57 | DocScrutinizer | no more US webshop -> no N9 available *via webshop*. Simple as that |
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| 05:20.10 | TimmyT | i've downloaded meego for n900, how to install meego beside maemo? |
| 05:21.02 | Tronic | TimmyT: Do you have a MicroSD card? |
| 05:21.22 | Tronic | That's the place to install it but be aware that it will run very slowly. |
| 05:21.53 | hatake_kakashi | it highly depends on which class microSD card you used |
| 05:22.05 | Tronic | (and look ugly as you get the community UX instead of Nokia Swipe or whatnot) |
| 05:22.15 | Tronic | hatake_kakashi: Doesn't really. |
| 05:22.31 | Tronic | Class 10 isn't really any faster on N900 :( |
| 05:23.16 | TimmyT | well can't i shrink that 27 GB partition and isnstall meego on that? |
| 05:24.45 | hatake_kakashi | Tronic, and fyi meego was recommended to be installed on microSD, not the internal eMMC |
| 05:24.56 | hatake_kakashi | you can in theory |
| 05:24.56 | TimmyT | and how to bootup that? by nolo? or it is possible to install grup on device? |
| 05:25.10 | hatake_kakashi | you have to use uboot |
| 05:25.35 | hatake_kakashi | nolo > uboot >ãyou choose whether you want to boot maemo or meego |
| 05:25.41 | TimmyT | y are u saying in theory? |
| 05:26.32 | Tronic | For good performance you should really use the 200 MB flash chip but then you definitely need to throw away the Maemo. |
| 05:26.42 | hatake_kakashi | because installation of meego onto eMMC isn't recommended and afaik nobody covered the idea of repartitioning the eMMC for meego to be installed onto that repartitioned portion |
| 05:26.47 | Tronic | Dunno how fast the eMMC is, probably not much better than MicroSD. |
| 05:28.43 | hatake_kakashi | and to use meego directly you won't have all the benefits that you normally get on maemo such as accelerated drivers and what not (certain builds of meego has acceleration mode but others are either broken or not working) |
| 05:29.03 | hatake_kakashi | should I add certain builds of meego images for N900 |
| 05:29.21 | TimmyT | Tronic: im saying this because my microSD card is 512 MB |
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| 05:29.56 | robbiethe1st | Might just want to go buy yourself an 8GB card? they're like $25... |
| 05:30.03 | robbiethe1st | even 16gb isn't that much |
| 05:30.42 | TimmyT | robbiethe1st: well u know it's 1:30 am |
| 05:31.06 | robbiethe1st | Well, it's not going to happen tonight... even messing with meego is going to be a number of hours |
| 05:31.39 | hatake_kakashi | it doesn't stop you from ordering one on the internet |
| 05:31.55 | TimmyT | robbiethe1st: so it seems i've to choose another plan for tonight :p |
| 05:32.39 | hatake_kakashi | and desperation will only lead to a stuffed up setup |
| 05:32.49 | robbiethe1st | Why not spend tonight improving Maemo? |
| 05:32.59 | robbiethe1st | Install a few tweaks, mess with the transitions etc? |
| 05:33.08 | TimmyT | it's ok, but i just wanted to know that y this is impossible or not recommended to install it on its internal storage |
| 05:33.19 | hatake_kakashi | maybe a good idea to also backup current setup as well :P |
| 05:33.33 | TimmyT | robbiethe1st: i had an idea |
| 05:33.47 | TimmyT | robbiethe1st: it was about a new theme |
| 05:33.48 | robbiethe1st | Why? Because you've got to re-partition the emmc. You can't access it over USB(only the one partition is exposed) |
| 05:34.07 | robbiethe1st | You'll have to do it on-device, which is sort of tricky; you've got no GUI tool to do it for you |
| 05:34.27 | hatake_kakashi | it isn't impossible, its just not recommended because one bad mistake could mean a complete reflash (especially with a fubared separate partition for meego on eMMC). |
| 05:34.35 | robbiethe1st | Exactly |
| 05:35.12 | robbiethe1st | The people who can figure out how to do it, well... they aren't going to be complaining that "OMG!!! MEEGo BrOKE My PHONE !!111!" |
| 05:35.44 | hatake_kakashi | or `how do i fix this? is broken! HELP!' |
| 05:36.32 | hatake_kakashi | maybe even add (urgent) as well and hoping their issues will be quickly addressed/attended to |
| 05:36.41 | robbiethe1st | Exactly. I'd not have any trouble, but then again, I've reflashed a number of times, figured out how to flash on x64 linux, etc. I'm not going to be complaining if things fail. |
| 05:37.33 | Tronic | Took a few attempts to do the repartitioning with Maemo only (I wanted larger /opt). Reflash every time you did something in the wrong order or if you forgot something trivial. |
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| 05:37.42 | TimmyT | no im not going to say that, :D i was reading installation wiki , i saw it said u must install it on microSD cards, i thought it may has a certain reason, like being not able to bootup or somethin |
| 05:38.11 | hatake_kakashi | the reasons were stated above |
| 05:38.49 | robbiethe1st | You just have to make sure the optfs partition is in the same partition # on the eMMC lest it won't boot |
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| 05:53.59 | mintux | my phone turn off automatically after upgrade |
| 05:54.03 | mintux | to 1.3 |
| 05:57.20 | TimmyT | gnu nano in maemo doesn't highlight codes but in pc does, why? |
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| 06:04.24 | DocScrutinizer | (<Tronic> For good performance you should) says who? also I *never* heard meego got installed on NAND |
| 06:05.05 | DocScrutinizer | (<hatake_kakashi> because installation of meego onto eMMC isn't recommended and afaik nobody covered the idea of repartitioning the eMMC) MohammadAG did exactly that. A number of other meego users too |
| 06:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | (eMMC speed) class10 is a hoax mostly. ShadowJK found sandisk class4(?) being way faster on real OS performance than random class10 |
| 06:06.39 | TimmyT | DocScrutinizer: so u r sayin it is ok? |
| 06:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | eye m ! say in t s ok |
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| 06:09.15 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: what part of the code has the partition table hard coded into it? |
| 06:09.28 | DocScrutinizer | which code? |
| 06:09.30 | hiemanshu | (I am assuming you have seen it) |
| 06:09.34 | hiemanshu | for maemo |
| 06:09.44 | hiemanshu | to add support for fstab |
| 06:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | check preinit |
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| 06:20.06 | hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, indeed, for those who know what they are doingã:). I guess sandisk mobs knows what they are doing when it comes to performance on a chip/s. Though they are expensive piece of equipment, they don't offer class 10 32GBãmicroSD (well not as far as I know of down here where I live) and that they are rather expensive. I should note too at one stage they marketed 32GB USBãsticks with fairly low read/write performance (I can't remember wh |
| 06:20.08 | hatake_kakashi | ich, it was either one, the other or both) and many 32GB owners complainedã(source maybe obtained from sandisk website) |
| 06:22.06 | hatake_kakashi | inevitably the speeds can never be compared from a microSD to a NAND chip. a NAND chip may be far larger in size and has more connections to the physical board compared that to of microSD |
| 06:22.30 | DocScrutinizer | related:http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 |
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| 06:37.05 | Tronic | DocScrutinizer: (NAND install) Me neither but it is the only fast piece of non-volatile memory on the device, right? |
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| 06:37.48 | hatake_kakashi | interesting bit of article there on fake and real microSD |
| 06:38.11 | Tronic | Should be much more tolerant for system disk use (repeated writes on the same location) than memory cards. |
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| 06:39.00 | Tronic | But just to be clear, I definitely don't recommend trying to install MeeGo on the integrated memory of the N900. |
| 06:39.37 | DocScrutinizer | Tronic: I don't think it's so much faster than uSD or eMMC. None of them deviates on even factor 2 from average over all 3 |
| 06:40.10 | Tronic | It would be nice if it were hacked to run on some affordable but new Android device (haven't heard of anyone doing this yet). |
| 06:40.57 | DocScrutinizer | for anti-vendor ports I'd possibly prefer SHR over meego |
| 06:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | in my book meego's main (if not only) advantage is vendor support |
| 06:41.50 | Tronic | What's SHR? |
| 06:42.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~shr |
| 06:42.20 | infobot | shr is, like, The Stable Hybrid Release (SHR), intended to be a community driven distribution composed of the FSO and some basic applications, that can be configured to use several different graphical toolkits, for example GTK or EFL. SHR is based on the FSO build. At first, SHR was introduced in order to use the Openmoko2007.2 GTK software in combination with the new FSO, but things have changed. |
| 06:42.31 | hatake_kakashi | in my case, testing with what seems to be a genuine TopRAM microSD 32GB microSDãmemory card, it seems the internal Toshiba 32GB is somewhat slightly faster (using fff to compare |
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| 06:42.54 | cehteh | ~fso |
| 06:42.54 | infobot | methinks fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware. |
| 06:43.03 | cehteh | :) |
| 06:43.40 | Tronic | OpenMoko may have been even more confusing than Nokia. |
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| 06:43.45 | reenignEesreveR | Hardware Question: is there an externally powered USB OTG which charges the phone as well as powers the other usb device? |
| 06:44.20 | Tronic | I mean that "last minute" toolkit change. |
| 06:44.20 | DocScrutinizer | is there a what? |
| 06:44.31 | DocScrutinizer | a cable, a PSU, a mode? |
| 06:44.56 | cehteh | can you charge while in hostmode? |
| 06:45.07 | DocScrutinizer | ~hostmode-charging |
| 06:45.07 | infobot | somebody said hostmode-powered was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 |
| 06:45.09 | cehteh | if yes, then a modified hub will do |
| 06:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | note please hostmode is NOT OTG |
| 06:46.15 | DocScrutinizer | I'll rename h-e-n to shino |
| 06:46.34 | DocScrutinizer | shino hostmode is not otg |
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| 06:46.57 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 06:47.10 | reenignEesreveR | hmmm.... |
| 06:47.24 | reenignEesreveR | alright |
| 06:47.38 | reenignEesreveR | well ... whether hostmode or OTG ... as far as it connects another device :) |
| 06:48.20 | reenignEesreveR | what i wanna do is connect a 3G EVO USB Dongle ... its going to leech the phone's battery qiuckly |
| 06:48.34 | reenignEesreveR | looking for a remedy |
| 06:49.12 | DocScrutinizer | it's not going to work at all with embedded power |
| 06:49.39 | reenignEesreveR | so hostmode-powered will work? has anyone already done that? |
| 06:49.53 | DocScrutinizer | done what? |
| 06:50.03 | DocScrutinizer | connect 3G dongle? |
| 06:50.11 | DocScrutinizer | not really afaik |
| 06:51.11 | reenignEesreveR | :( |
| 06:51.37 | DocScrutinizer | though the photo I linked in ~hostmode-charging shows my 3G dongle, with the Y-cable it shipped with, and I powered it *in initial storage mode* from N900 |
| 06:52.06 | hatake_kakashi | at this point in time I'm thinking h-e-n is more of POC concept rather than the OEM's ideal approach to what USB hostmode/OTG really is meant to be on N900 |
| 06:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | anyway my N900 3G is just good enough - why would I want to connect an external 3G dongle? |
| 06:52.31 | hatake_kakashi | I'm sure one could easily relate to that :) |
| 06:53.23 | reenignEesreveR | because in my country, 3g is only availabe on evdo dongles :( |
| 06:54.05 | DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: eh?? h-e-n never been and wasn't meant to be ""the OEM's ideal approach to what USB hostmode/OTG"" |
| 06:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless for a PoC it's extremely popular |
| 06:55.06 | hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, that's what I said :)ãmeant to be POC *rather than* OEM's ideal approach to what USB hostmode/OTG is meant to be |
| 06:56.04 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, I don't get it, and it kinda feels annoying to see you ranting about h-e-n |
| 06:56.25 | reenignEesreveR | can i use a CDMA UIM with N900 in the SIM Card holder ? |
| 06:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | if you think it needs improvements, go ahead and get verbose |
| 06:57.05 | reenignEesreveR | is trying to distract a flamewar |
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| 06:57.42 | hatake_kakashi | I'm not slanting h-e-n. It is a nice functionality for those of us (yes including myself) wants to attach various other USB devices to N900. Afterall the Nokia N tablets had USBãOTG (or at least the precedessor did)ãand N900 didn't have USB OTG which is a fairly dramatic letdown |
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| 07:00.34 | hatake_kakashi | and I too also agree that PoCãis getting rather popular, but sometimes also more often than not it is used in ways it was never meant to be, such as for illicit purposes. Not that in precise terms that USB OTG/hostmode for N900 can be used for illicit purposes but nobody said it was impossible on the contrary :) |
| 07:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | N900 is first NIT device with USB charging only, and to accomplish that and then also get the cert of USB board, they had to mess with OTG detection and broke some functions in hw. They had no time to run further spins on hw revisions testing and whatnot, so they accepted the fact and binned OTG and hostmode |
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| 07:03.47 | DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: sorry, the term "illicit purposes" makes no sense to me - and believe me I had no "illicit purposes" in mind I wanted to exclude from future h-e-n usecases when I waded through making it happen |
| 07:04.49 | DocScrutinizer | h-e-n came to life to turn N900 into a proper USB host. Nothing less, nothing more |
| 07:06.05 | DocScrutinizer | about charging hostmode nevertheless I thought thoroughly after basic functions worked just so good that my headache started to get better |
| 07:06.17 | hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, heh Iãguess I should have been more clearer, I meant illicit purpose that doesn't redefine what the original PoC maker did. Much like Sony PS3's case of jailbreak kit later lead to pirated PS3 stuff. In theory USB hostmode could be used for instance in breaking other people's WEP quicker (notably with pk, aircrack-ng suite and the like) |
| 07:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | err uhuh |
| 07:07.32 | robbiethe1st | Well, um... that's the reason you lock down everything, including all ports. Remember, if your pesky users can't use it, they can't /mis/-use it! |
| 07:07.33 | DocScrutinizer | and what means "original PoC maker" - wouldn't "you" be a shorter term? |
| 07:07.45 | hatake_kakashi | it is confusing, it isn't directly related but for that instance it is in the slightest hint of the sense made it possible |
| 07:08.27 | hatake_kakashi | `original PoCãmaker' I personally define it as whoever made this crack/flaw possible but never had any illicit intentions in mind |
| 07:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | made it possible? |
| 07:09.19 | DocScrutinizer | Volta made it possible when he invented electricity? |
| 07:09.53 | hatake_kakashi | made it possible as in easing the effect of one having to do it all by hand (which can be a rather cumbersome mode) |
| 07:10.11 | DocScrutinizer | I was quite a bit involved in gathering the info bits and designing the needed sw bits |
| 07:10.21 | DocScrutinizer | but I didn't make it possible |
| 07:10.41 | hatake_kakashi | again I'm not saying you had evil intentions, but such PoC like most others can be twisted into dark realms and be used as illicit tools, such as aircrack-ng, nmap, and what not |
| 07:10.52 | hatake_kakashi | well you had a UI afaik :) |
| 07:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I'm afk |
| 07:10.57 | hatake_kakashi | rather GUI |
| 07:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | this gets me dizzy |
| 07:11.25 | DocScrutinizer | what a nonsense |
| 07:11.52 | DocScrutinizer | enabling USB on a computer can be abused for illicit purposes - OK man |
| 07:11.59 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 07:12.37 | DocScrutinizer | imagine! I could attach a relais card and trigger a bomb with it |
| 07:12.40 | DocScrutinizer | DUH |
| 07:12.59 | hatake_kakashi | ok I'll leave it at that :) I'm not going to argue on the finer specifics (I guess drunkedness is causing me slightly more verbose than usual) |
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| 07:31.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | wants to see hatake_kakashi do N900 hostmode "by hand" on a stock kernel :-P |
| 07:32.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | sounds like "doing WLAN by hand" when you are missing the kernel driver |
| 07:33.19 | hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer51, what's the point in that?ãas I stated before I'm not against you for the creation of USB host mode in general or even with USB hostmode/OTGã:) |
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| 07:42.22 | villager | I'm blaming the universe for laws of physics which seem to inadvertently make nuclear bombs, poisons, electrocution, violent video games, and usb host mode possible |
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| 08:02.27 | Evanescence | I am using phoneStream, I transfer audio to computer, open with VLC, but how to save that audio into an audio file ? |
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| 08:34.16 | kerio | Evanescence: tell vlc to do it |
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| 08:38.53 | fauxfone | does the traffic from this channel get saved in some searchable place? |
| 08:39.10 | dm8tbr | see topic |
| 08:39.10 | jacekowski | yes |
| 08:39.11 | jacekowski | @logs |
| 08:39.14 | jacekowski | ~logs |
| 08:39.14 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
| 08:39.32 | fauxfone | thank you |
| 08:42.48 | Shapeshifter | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:10.51 | merlin1991 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:11.35 | merlin1991 | but Shapeshifter this log does log lines starting with a space http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html :D |
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| 09:58.55 | eikkka | hey, i have a question about an email i got from nokia, it says that the IM feature of the Contacts application (on my n900) is going to be "discontinued", and I'd have to get a Chat application from Ovi Store or whatever.. but there is no Chat app for n900 |
| 09:59.09 | eikkka | does this thing actually affect my msn and fb IM's? |
| 10:01.12 | merlin1991 | eikkka: msn and fb im on the n900 are done by a community extension from meamo extras |
| 10:01.29 | merlin1991 | I guess the email is about ovi messaging thing |
| 10:01.37 | eikkka | ah, i see |
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| 10:02.57 | eikkka | so only thing's changing that i can't use Ovi chat through the normal conversations window? |
| 10:03.04 | eikkka | (not using ovi anyway) |
| 10:03.04 | jacekowski | eikkka: are you sure it's about n900? |
| 10:03.10 | eikkka | no i'm not |
| 10:03.10 | jacekowski | eikkka: not about some symbian phones |
| 10:03.16 | jacekowski | exactly |
| 10:03.23 | jacekowski | i doubt that they would be changing anything on n900 |
| 10:03.24 | eikkka | it says that i got the email because i've used the software on my phone |
| 10:04.07 | eikkka | You are receiving this email because you have used instant messaging (IM) from the Contacts application on your Nokia phone. |
| 10:04.10 | eikkka | but eh |
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| 10:05.22 | eikkka | anyway i guess we'll see tomorrow when it's "discontinued" |
| 10:05.27 | eikkka | thanks |
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| 10:09.04 | Macer | game of thrones was awesome |
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| 10:21.42 | MohammadAG | Ovi Chat will probably break tomorrow for all N900 users |
| 10:22.00 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, they're breaking the old API |
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| 10:24.21 | cehteh | anyone used ovi chat? |
| 10:24.44 | cehteh | for all n900 users, that means approx 0 users right? :) |
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| 10:25.13 | cehteh | (it never worked for me when it tried it once) |
| 10:27.28 | TimmyT | how to disable auto checking feature of email in maemo?? |
| 10:28.50 | ShadowJK | TimmyT, email - titlebar menu - settings - scroll down - uncheck update automatically |
| 10:30.33 | TimmyT | ShadowJK: aa, tnx dear, i think it is a little bit anoying when im using imap, |
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| 15:37.07 | fusi | anyone know of a native (c/c++) oauth lib that doesnt have a bajillion dependancies? |
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| 15:37.30 | fusi | currently treying to get liboauth to compile om maemo |
| 15:38.02 | fusi | or is there a way i can call python from c and have it return the result somehow o_O |
| 15:38.12 | fusi | know sfa about python ^^ |
| 15:38.33 | fusi | python has an oauth lib -_- |
| 15:38.50 | fusi | dont want no localhost proxies |
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| 16:18.27 | Shapeshifter | Problem: On my n900 I always see a wlan AP called Free Public WiFi, no matter if I'm in the middle of nowhere. I can't connect to it. How do I get rid of it? |
| 16:21.39 | lcuk | Shapeshifter, lol |
| 16:21.46 | lcuk | internet connections dialog |
| 16:21.49 | lcuk | in settings |
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| 16:22.51 | Tronic | I guess that happens for Ad-hoc networks. |
| 16:23.32 | Tronic | I have one that is "stuck" on mine too. |
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| 16:54.47 | Shapeshifter | lcuk: mhh that was sufficient. I thought it was something more serious |
| 16:56.01 | fusi | is there a function equivalent to MessageBox() in mameo? |
| 16:56.13 | fusi | to create a modal dialog with some text in it and a button |
| 16:56.22 | *** join/#maemo orangey (~orangey@CPE0018e7c840f5-CM0022103a6e13.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:56.28 | fusi | without using ie qt |
| 16:56.33 | orangey | hello all |
| 16:56.40 | orangey | is there such a thing as encrypting my whole maemo phone? |
| 16:57.05 | lcuk | blendtec offer some nice one way encryption devices |
| 16:57.16 | fusi | haha |
| 16:59.11 | fusi | aww maaaaan |
| 16:59.22 | fusi | i gotta use hildon to make dialogs |
| 16:59.38 | fusi | was kinda hoping for a catch all easy to use no mess function |
| 16:59.51 | fusi | instead of YET MORE BLOODY DEPENDANCIES >:[ |
| 17:00.16 | fusi | grumbles |
| 17:00.19 | fusi | i will keep searching |
| 17:00.20 | orangey | lcuk: sheesh |
| 17:00.28 | orangey | lcuk: I'll take that as a "no" |
| 17:00.46 | orangey | I find the phone quite terrible security-wise, which is surprising considering the linux |
| 17:00.47 | NIN101 | besides the rootfs |
| 17:00.59 | NIN101 | you can encrypt home, MyDocs, the swap partition... |
| 17:01.20 | orangey | NIN101: i'm not getting any love on tmo on how to do it. is there some unified doc on the matter? |
| 17:01.46 | NIN101 | hm. |
| 17:02.10 | fusi | hmmm dbus |
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| 17:03.50 | NIN101 | home is easy |
| 17:03.56 | NIN101 | eh I meant, MyDocs is easy. |
| 17:04.17 | NIN101 | I would not recommend encryption of the home partition for beginners. |
| 17:05.43 | orangey | doesn't seem like the phone can be hardened with any ease |
| 17:06.21 | orangey | i guess I'll wipe my n810 and use that |
| 17:06.25 | SpeedEvil | Not easily, no. |
| 17:06.39 | orangey | SpeedEvil: can you imagine it with current tools? |
| 17:06.47 | orangey | easy or hard? |
| 17:06.54 | SpeedEvil | orangey: I can imagine anything! |
| 17:07.04 | SpeedEvil | And depending on what you want to do - hard |
| 17:07.21 | SpeedEvil | If you want the entire device encrypted - contacts and all - you're going to have to go in quite deep. |
| 17:07.44 | SpeedEvil | If you want to have teh software encrypted too - it gets lots messier still. |
| 17:07.53 | orangey | i'm not asking for much |
| 17:08.03 | orangey | just something that would stand up to a sophisticated state adversary |
| 17:08.04 | orangey | ; ) |
| 17:08.04 | SpeedEvil | You need to basically start off at the bootloader, and then heavily patch all the startup scripts. |
| 17:08.17 | fusi | i'm just careful with my phone.. |
| 17:08.21 | fusi | seems to do the job |
| 17:08.51 | NIN101 | And an encrypted /home/ is PITA after a reflash. |
| 17:08.55 | SpeedEvil | In principle a bootloader that booted, and took a key from a connected USB keydrive. |
| 17:09.02 | SpeedEvil | Would work |
| 17:09.16 | NIN101 | this is not needed. |
| 17:09.29 | DocScrutinizer | enrypting is EASY. Just booting starts to get nasty impossible from there on XP |
| 17:10.03 | DocScrutinizer | SCNR |
| 17:10.07 | orangey | XP? What does that have to do with it? |
| 17:10.12 | DocScrutinizer | X-P |
| 17:10.16 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 17:10.30 | orangey | SpeedEvil: yeah, that would be the ideal. |
| 17:10.33 | SpeedEvil | I'm sure you get USB keys with 'forget' buttons on. |
| 17:10.34 | DocScrutinizer | (emoticon) |
| 17:10.39 | SpeedEvil | I forget where I've seen them. |
| 17:10.56 | SpeedEvil | orangey: But you'd also need the device to shut off when it gets out of your hands. |
| 17:11.07 | orangey | SpeedEvil: the other big issue will be locking when it sleeps / laeves me |
| 17:11.10 | orangey | SpeedEvil: right |
| 17:11.23 | fusi | sd? cant reliably be erased |
| 17:11.29 | SpeedEvil | It can't be in a state to take calls - if it's not on your person |
| 17:11.34 | fusi | saw a paper on that a while ago |
| 17:11.35 | SpeedEvil | fusi: I said USB drives, not S. |
| 17:11.38 | SpeedEvil | fusi: SD |
| 17:11.47 | DocScrutinizer | orangey: you *should* keep your precious data in a special crypted filesystem that you don't need for booting and can loopmount any time |
| 17:11.52 | SpeedEvil | fusi: And I mean ones specifically designed for security |
| 17:12.13 | fusi | well, anything flash based |
| 17:12.28 | orangey | DocScrutinizer: as it happens, it's my contacts that would need encryption most |
| 17:12.31 | fusi | best one ive seen it the one that physically destroys its insides |
| 17:12.35 | fusi | only way to be safe |
| 17:12.40 | SpeedEvil | fusi: It's really not |
| 17:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | orangey: the you have a hard time |
| 17:12.46 | SpeedEvil | fusi: Low-level flash is quite volatile. |
| 17:12.51 | NIN101 | http://nin101.uni.cx/N900/crypto/encrypted_home/ but as said, I do not recommend that for beginners, as it's likely that they will mess something up. My setup: I boot, and enter a LUKS key(fbcon console), then after lock code and pin, an autostart truecrypt mount for MyDocs.... |
| 17:12.52 | orangey | I'm talking about making contact with people while collecting human rights violations in hostile states |
| 17:12.57 | SpeedEvil | fusi: If a block has been block erase, it's gone. |
| 17:13.10 | fusi | SpeedEvil: ill see if i can find the article.. |
| 17:13.30 | SpeedEvil | fusi: The hard part is that in many devices, the firmware handles the eraseblocks, and may not quite do that with all data. |
| 17:13.33 | orangey | NIN101: I am no newbie |
| 17:13.42 | SpeedEvil | fusi: The low-level storage media is quite erasable. |
| 17:13.51 | fusi | ah |
| 17:13.56 | fusi | so its a controller issue |
| 17:13.59 | DocScrutinizer | fusi: the data left over in "unused" blocks is a common problem to all fs |
| 17:14.25 | kerio | SpeedEvil: something something electron microscope blah blah |
| 17:14.42 | *** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@cs181145227.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:14.45 | SpeedEvil | kerio: naah - doesn't help |
| 17:14.55 | fusi | here http://www.usenix.org/events/fast11/tech/full_papers/Wei.pdf |
| 17:15.02 | orangey | i suspect the best way to do this is paper that I light on fire |
| 17:15.15 | kerio | orangey: or an SD that you light on fire |
| 17:15.22 | SpeedEvil | fusi: See also http://news.techworld.com/security/3263093/ssd-fimware-destroys-digital-evidence-researchers-find/ |
| 17:15.24 | kerio | yay data density |
| 17:15.41 | orangey | kerio: I wouldn't trust an SSD to be destroyed. |
| 17:15.47 | orangey | rather, SD |
| 17:15.50 | fusi | SpeedEvil: heheh was just going to post that from here http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/01/self_destructing_flash_drives/ |
| 17:15.54 | fusi | heh |
| 17:15.54 | kerio | orangey: huh? |
| 17:15.56 | orangey | SpeedEvil: yeah, that was encouraging |
| 17:16.06 | SpeedEvil | notes that microSDs can be chomped up in your teeth with only minor damage. |
| 17:16.09 | kerio | orangey: very little survives a thermal lance |
| 17:16.21 | SpeedEvil | fusi: I know - that paper doesn't reveal anything new to me. |
| 17:16.22 | fusi | i drove over one of my sd cards once in a gravel carparl >.< |
| 17:16.27 | fusi | was fine ^^ |
| 17:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: your setup sounds rather nifty and evolved |
| 17:16.33 | fusi | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:16.34 | orangey | kerio: but who knows about all the garbage left behind while manipulating that data |
| 17:16.38 | SpeedEvil | Once a microSD is physically damaged - snapped in half - you are not getting any data out. |
| 17:16.50 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: do you deal with swap? |
| 17:16.54 | NIN101 | yes I do |
| 17:16.55 | SpeedEvil | Unless you're willing to invest truly many millions in it. |
| 17:16.56 | kerio | SpeedEvil: blah blah electron microscope something something |
| 17:17.00 | NIN101 | thx. |
| 17:17.01 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: cool |
| 17:17.06 | SpeedEvil | kerio: It's really debatable that works even. |
| 17:17.09 | kerio | hehe |
| 17:17.18 | orangey | SpeedEvil: micro sd is the best thing to use because, of course, it's so easy to hide. |
| 17:17.29 | kerio | s/hide/chomp up and swallow/ |
| 17:17.32 | orangey | once found, it has to be assumed completely compromised, though |
| 17:17.43 | kerio | but again, a thermal lance is preferrable |
| 17:17.51 | kerio | and if you really care about your data, truecrypt |
| 17:17.54 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: ouch |
| 17:17.56 | kerio | with fake data on the upper level |
| 17:18.09 | DocScrutinizer | hands kerio salt, pepper, and tabasco sauce |
| 17:18.27 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: i'm not swallowing a thermal lance |
| 17:18.38 | DocScrutinizer | uSD is sharp enough |
| 17:18.55 | kerio | that's why you chomp it |
| 17:18.55 | kerio | :) |
| 17:19.03 | orangey | kerio: you have a lead on some pocket thermal lances that won't arouse suspicion in airports? |
| 17:19.08 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: this is IRC, allow for lags on answers |
| 17:19.12 | SpeedEvil | ponders. |
| 17:19.22 | SpeedEvil | I wonder about selling a microSD reader. |
| 17:19.26 | *** join/#maemo peterbjornx (~peterbosc@D97B8FC5.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 17:19.30 | peterbjornx | Hello |
| 17:19.35 | SpeedEvil | With an added feature that snaps the microSD in half when you press a button |
| 17:19.43 | SpeedEvil | Or it's pulled off a lanyard |
| 17:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | HEHEHE |
| 17:19.46 | orangey | SpeedEvil: god, why? |
| 17:19.47 | kerio | just use encryption, really |
| 17:20.00 | orangey | SpeedEvil: that would result 99 times out of 100 in accidental destruction |
| 17:20.10 | DocScrutinizer | GOOD |
| 17:20.16 | SpeedEvil | orangey: Sometimes accidental destruction is just fine. That's what backups are for. |
| 17:20.29 | kerio | encrypted backups! |
| 17:20.30 | orangey | SpeedEvil: you'd have to personally vet every customer |
| 17:20.31 | peterbjornx | i have a problem with my N900, when i try to run something really heavy on the cpu (installing a shitload of debs in a chroot) it just reboots or Xterm closes |
| 17:20.36 | SpeedEvil | orangey: Why? |
| 17:20.38 | DocScrutinizer | and spare cards are available thru our omlime shop, at as little as $99 |
| 17:20.41 | peterbjornx | its connected to the charger |
| 17:20.45 | orangey | SpeedEvil: to save them from themselves |
| 17:21.05 | fusi | peterbjornx: are you overclocking |
| 17:21.07 | SpeedEvil | I would have a pay-per-minute support line for data recovery. |
| 17:21.17 | SpeedEvil | Where I get paid to laugh at people. |
| 17:21.20 | orangey | "sorry. you're fucked. 2.99 please" |
| 17:21.23 | peterbjornx | i tried that, but it also happens at 600Mhz |
| 17:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 17:21.27 | peterbjornx | it does not overheat |
| 17:21.51 | orangey | OK, time to show my n810 some love |
| 17:21.53 | orangey | it's been a while |
| 17:21.58 | fusi | :) |
| 17:22.00 | kerio | really though, what's wrong with truecrypt |
| 17:22.08 | kerio | i don't understand |
| 17:22.28 | orangey | kerio: not comprehensive enough for my use case |
| 17:22.38 | SpeedEvil | With truecrypt you can be required to reveal the key. |
| 17:22.42 | SpeedEvil | In many legislations. |
| 17:22.45 | orangey | the true conclusion is that it is impossible to do what I need technologically with an n900 |
| 17:22.51 | SpeedEvil | Or face contempt of court. |
| 17:22.52 | fusi | zomfg i just compiled liboauth for maemo \o/ o// \\o \o/ |
| 17:22.54 | SpeedEvil | orangey: not quite |
| 17:23.01 | SpeedEvil | orangey: It's difficult, but quite possible. |
| 17:23.04 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: run: nice <yourcommand> |
| 17:23.12 | orangey | SpeedEvil: essentially impossible.. |
| 17:23.14 | kerio | SpeedEvil: that's what the upper level with gay foot fetish brazilian fart porn is for |
| 17:23.20 | orangey | SpeedEvil: I'm speaking practically here. |
| 17:23.21 | SpeedEvil | orangey: I'd pay $5 say if you can get it done. |
| 17:23.37 | SpeedEvil | orangey: It's quite practical - there is no software reason it can't be done. |
| 17:23.56 | orangey | SpeedEvil: to do what I want, we're talking WDE |
| 17:23.59 | DocScrutinizer | orangey: you missed NIN101 's comments |
| 17:24.07 | orangey | DocScrutinizer: I read it all |
| 17:24.07 | SpeedEvil | WDE? |
| 17:24.12 | orangey | whole disk encryption |
| 17:24.17 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 17:24.29 | SpeedEvil | It's not technologically hard. All the parts are there. |
| 17:24.35 | SpeedEvil | It's just annoying to put in place. |
| 17:24.38 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: NIN101 approach seems just good enough |
| 17:24.40 | kerio | if they force you to open the volume, you break down crying, open it, and show the porn while apologizing to no one in particular |
| 17:25.15 | orangey | SpeedEvil: I use wde with my regular computers and a CD to get the whole thing started |
| 17:25.33 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 17:25.45 | *** join/#maemo antman8969 (~antman896@pool-98-113-198-248.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:25.48 | orangey | but it's true that to do that with a phone more or less is no good. |
| 17:25.59 | fusi | are you james bond ^^ |
| 17:26.37 | orangey | fusi: just a super paranoid dude. |
| 17:26.43 | SpeedEvil | orangey: It's not no good. |
| 17:26.44 | NIN101 | even more than me. |
| 17:26.50 | SpeedEvil | orangey: It requires some compromises. |
| 17:26.54 | peterbjornx | do i need to raise or lower the priority |
| 17:27.00 | peterbjornx | what causes the reboot |
| 17:27.07 | DocScrutinizer | orangey: why would you need WDE? isn't encryption of $HOME and MyDocs just enough? |
| 17:27.19 | peterbjornx | is it the program that reboots the device incase Xorg/hildon stops responding? |
| 17:27.26 | SpeedEvil | orangey: For example, a means to keep the phone on you at all times, and shut off. As well as a boot key that you can destroy the key on. |
| 17:27.38 | SpeedEvil | Then there are the meta-questions. |
| 17:27.57 | orangey | SpeedEvil: why compromise, though? so that I can have a shiny phone to play with? |
| 17:28.21 | fusi | not rly my area all this ^^ gonna go fiddle with liboauth |
| 17:28.25 | SpeedEvil | orangey: Compromise in terms of operation, not shinyness. |
| 17:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: nice defaults to increasing niceness aka lowering prio |
| 17:28.27 | fusi | gl on ur quest orangey :) |
| 17:28.29 | fusi | o/ |
| 17:28.45 | orangey | DocScrutinizer: without wde, you can never be fully sure somebody hasn't tampered around. then you're playing with something you think is secure,w hich is worse than assuming that your system is insecure |
| 17:29.00 | peterbjornx | but why does xterm get killed if it uses 100% CPU |
| 17:29.01 | DocScrutinizer | orangey: wait for N9 |
| 17:29.06 | DocScrutinizer | THE device for you |
| 17:29.08 | orangey | DocScrutinizer: why? |
| 17:29.15 | NIN101 | lol. |
| 17:29.15 | SpeedEvil | orangey: All computers today have a boot ROM in the CPU. You don't know what it does. |
| 17:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | has full MSSF framework |
| 17:29.26 | SpeedEvil | orangey: You can't get source. |
| 17:29.37 | orangey | DocScrutinizer: I will admit that I'm probably leaving maemo after my n900 dies (in many years, hopefully) |
| 17:29.43 | orangey | I love my n900 so much. |
| 17:29.58 | orangey | I literally cried when elop did his thing |
| 17:30.08 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell orangey about aegis |
| 17:30.37 | orangey | I can't imagine anything even close to maemo's conversations, for example |
| 17:30.41 | peterbjornx | but why does xterm get killed if it uses 100% CPU |
| 17:30.44 | orangey | and the contact management is unparalleled. |
| 17:31.14 | SpeedEvil | orangey: In adition, in a PC, every single device on the PCIe bus with firmware (that's all of them) is a vector you have no source for. |
| 17:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | orangey: obviously this also means *you* (the user) also don't have any more control over the device, as the concept is based on the assumption every user might be rogue |
| 17:31.58 | SpeedEvil | And as I point out to DocScrutinizer every time, in principle, with truste computing, the user can have the keys. |
| 17:32.08 | SpeedEvil | s/user/owner/ |
| 17:32.20 | SpeedEvil | The fact the owner does not have the keys is the objectionable part. |
| 17:32.21 | DocScrutinizer | so as the MSSF can't distinguish you from a rogue attacker sneaking in some sniffer to your device, it is based on the concept that *nobody* can do this without certification from Nokia |
| 17:32.28 | DocScrutinizer | in Nikia we trust ;-P |
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| 17:33.38 | peterbjornx | can someone answer me |
| 17:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: how would you make sure no CIA or Mossad or whatever easily gets your "private key printed on page 0" from their comprehensive database they got from dunno where? |
| 17:34.25 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: shouldn't get killed on 100% CPU usage |
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| 17:34.39 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: In principle the key could be writeable. |
| 17:34.41 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't get killed here |
| 17:35.52 | orangey | I think we've gone above and beyond here : ) |
| 17:35.56 | orangey | thank you to all, though |
| 17:36.02 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: in principle... we could tweak TC speks until we finally got sth that has nothing in common with current TC/TPM design and concept, and that would finally meet your ideas then |
| 17:36.15 | DocScrutinizer | the reality is *different* though |
| 17:36.18 | orangey | we've probably more than sufficiently answered two questions: 1) not all that practical to do; 2) we need help. REAL help |
| 17:36.27 | DocScrutinizer | TPM isn't built to change root key |
| 17:37.03 | SpeedEvil | Current implementations are not, no. |
| 17:37.17 | SpeedEvil | orangey: It's quite practical to do, if you have the skills. |
| 17:37.28 | orangey | and the time. |
| 17:37.38 | SpeedEvil | orangey: There are no fundamentally very hard bits - all of the heavy lifting has been done - it's just effort and time. |
| 17:37.55 | orangey | SpeedEvil: there is nothing practical about trying to test and execute a WDE on which people's lives may rely |
| 17:38.28 | SpeedEvil | orangey: Err - what? The technical implementation is fairly straightforward. |
| 17:38.40 | SpeedEvil | The hard part is turning off when you put the device down. |
| 17:39.09 | SpeedEvil | In addition - you do kow that the modem will tell the tower its location whenever it's on, if asked from the GPS? |
| 17:39.40 | SpeedEvil | Without any software action at all, and you have no security for calls from the telco |
| 17:40.17 | orangey | SpeedEvil: it will actually try to get a satellite gps lock? |
| 17:40.25 | orangey | SpeedEvil: or do you just mean through the agps thing? |
| 17:40.25 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 17:40.26 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 17:40.31 | orangey | *shudder* |
| 17:40.51 | orangey | anyway, the location security is something I've run into before. |
| 17:40.51 | DocScrutinizer | GPS has a msg "please get GPS" and modem will try to obbey |
| 17:41.01 | DocScrutinizer | s/GPS/GSM/ |
| 17:41.08 | SpeedEvil | Any time the modem is connected to a tower the tower can ask the phone to do lots of stuff. |
| 17:41.16 | SpeedEvil | Entirely seperate from the linux side. |
| 17:41.21 | orangey | it's common enough that I actually physically unplug the battery when I go on these trips |
| 17:41.44 | SpeedEvil | the only way you can tell is you might get an instant GPS lock if you turn GPS on |
| 17:42.07 | SpeedEvil | (and 50mA more draw) |
| 17:43.53 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
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| 17:44.49 | peterbjornx | but, can we not request the modem firmware source and comment out the code responsible |
| 17:44.53 | lcuk | irony, i can get the device on wallwart to show the usb checking symbol. |
| 17:44.56 | peterbjornx | or code in bullshit coordinates |
| 17:45.06 | lcuk | when i use usb on any computer it will not come on |
| 17:45.14 | DocScrutinizer | but then, if the phone is connected to any BTS, they already got your location to a precision of ~+/-250m |
| 17:45.16 | SpeedEvil | peterbjornx: No |
| 17:45.25 | SpeedEvil | peterbjornx: The GSM code is on a seperate core |
| 17:45.32 | peterbjornx | i know it is |
| 17:45.39 | SpeedEvil | peterbjornx: It is not bound by the GPL. |
| 17:45.51 | peterbjornx | ok, then cantwe disassemble it |
| 17:46.01 | SpeedEvil | You can dissasemble it. |
| 17:46.06 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: the modem firmware is hash-signed |
| 17:46.10 | SpeedEvil | But not flash it, as it's cryptographically secured. |
| 17:46.28 | peterbjornx | darn, i hate such things |
| 17:47.29 | peterbjornx | but, what (besides low battery and overheat) will cause a n900 to spontaneously reboot |
| 17:47.50 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: pretty difficult to answer |
| 17:48.25 | peterbjornx | as on multiple attempts at running apt-get install kde in a chroot it just reboots |
| 17:48.31 | DocScrutinizer | usually some basic system process (e.g. bme) will act up, and dsme fails on restarting it, so dsme says "time for a reboot!" |
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| 17:49.07 | peterbjornx | so, "nice" should indeed work |
| 17:49.15 | peterbjornx | at the cost of slowing the process even more |
| 17:49.19 | DocScrutinizer | maybe apt-get install is executing an offending preinstall script or sth like that |
| 17:49.32 | DocScrutinizer | or simply is eating up 100% of rootfs space |
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| 17:49.40 | peterbjornx | neither, its a chroot |
| 17:49.52 | peterbjornx | but before the reboot all GUI components freeze |
| 17:50.07 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, the apt-get running *inside* chroot? |
| 17:50.27 | SpeedEvil | peterbjornx: You've probably run out of swap - I guess |
| 17:50.32 | peterbjornx | xterm and the whole desktop env freeze |
| 17:50.34 | DocScrutinizer | and not using bindmounts to e.g /tmp etc |
| 17:50.36 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 17:50.45 | peterbjornx | hmm |
| 17:50.49 | peterbjornx | that might be it |
| 17:50.58 | peterbjornx | im using ezchroot |
| 17:51.05 | peterbjornx | trying a normal chroot now |
| 17:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: you looked at syslog? |
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| 17:53.07 | DocScrutinizer | also SpeedEvil 's suspicion about running short on mem/swap has some point |
| 17:53.54 | peterbjornx | but, does that really cause a restart |
| 17:54.03 | DocScrutinizer | yes, sure |
| 17:54.05 | peterbjornx | i guess it would just kill dpkg |
| 17:54.08 | DocScrutinizer | eventually it will |
| 17:54.38 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, you'd think it should just kill dpkg, but reality is different |
| 17:54.45 | lardman|laptop | was there an ocr package available for fremantle? |
| 17:55.27 | peterbjornx | ill create a 2 gig swapfile on emmc |
| 17:55.35 | DocScrutinizer | OOM will not detect the multiple dpkg processes each eating "only" a few xx MB of RAM |
| 17:56.14 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: you're doing sth nasty, I don't think 2GB additional swap are the answer |
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| 17:56.54 | DocScrutinizer | NB there are already 0.8GB swap |
| 18:00.24 | DocScrutinizer | look, 2 days ago I visited a webpage that had ~400 URLs pointing to files that I planned to download. I was naive enough to use KDE kget's "add all URLs to list of downloads" function, and that pretty much killed my 2GBram 6GB swap 2GHz Intel pentium duo laptop |
| 18:01.17 | DocScrutinizer | just saying: check your procedures, rather than trying to add swap space |
| 18:01.18 | peterbjornx | ok, but installing kde is done on desktops all the time, without problem |
| 18:01.40 | peterbjornx | ive installed kde on desktop with 3 gig total ram (real+swap) |
| 18:02.01 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: how's that on topic now? |
| 18:03.16 | DocScrutinizer | I was talking about your dpkg calls maybe get parallelized, or you are installing a package that has 500 dependencies that get auto-installed to dpkg ram usage explodes, or sth like that |
| 18:03.33 | peterbjornx | as i expect a n900 with (im adding 3 gig swap) 3,8GB swap and 0,2GB ram should be able to do that |
| 18:03.47 | peterbjornx | im installing the metapackage so yes a lot of deps |
| 18:03.47 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
| 18:03.54 | DocScrutinizer | see? |
| 18:03.59 | DocScrutinizer | you can not do that |
| 18:04.06 | DocScrutinizer | on virtually no system |
| 18:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | get a list of dependencies and install then one by one, like >># for f in `cat list-of-depends`; do dpkg -i $f; done |
| 18:05.56 | peterbjornx | or i could use debootstrap --include to create the chroot with it |
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| 18:06.14 | DocScrutinizer | err wut? |
| 18:08.22 | peterbjornx | you do know what debootstrap is right? |
| 18:08.30 | DocScrutinizer | no |
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| 18:08.40 | peterbjornx | its a tool to create a chroot |
| 18:08.44 | DocScrutinizer | and I'm not really interested in learning it right now |
| 18:09.04 | peterbjornx | it doesnt use apt get and does dependencys like you said |
| 18:12.19 | fusi | whats he keyb shortcut to restart x? (in sdk) |
| 18:12.30 | fusi | screensaver has come on and it wont go away :/ |
| 18:14.27 | DocScrutinizer | killall xephyr ? |
| 18:14.33 | fusi | cant get to a console |
| 18:14.58 | DocScrutinizer | errr wut? your SDK locked the host system? |
| 18:15.44 | fusi | http://www.sekaita.com/ohdear.png |
| 18:15.46 | fusi | nono |
| 18:15.49 | fusi | the vm image |
| 18:16.08 | DocScrutinizer | there's still a host system |
| 18:16.34 | fusi | yea the vurtial host is bork |
| 18:16.37 | DocScrutinizer | xephyr just a process on host system, and inside that your emu is running |
| 18:17.03 | fusi | yea, this is the host that has esbox in it |
| 18:17.12 | fusi | the screensaver came on |
| 18:17.34 | fusi | resizing the window it 'looks' like its still running because its a bit slow repainting |
| 18:17.43 | fusi | and i can see the dt bg |
| 18:18.12 | fusi | sorry |
| 18:18.33 | fusi | in xp atm, with maemo sdk vm image in a vmware |
| 18:19.02 | fusi | never mind ill just go back to a snapshot |
| 18:19.09 | DocScrutinizer | so inside vm click the close button of the xephyr window |
| 18:19.18 | fusi | did u see the link i posted |
| 18:19.30 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 18:19.42 | DocScrutinizer | I'm filteriung random links |
| 18:20.09 | fusi | ok dont worry bout it |
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| 18:21.44 | DocScrutinizer | wp.emulate(vmware-linux-emulate(qemu-run(maemo))) |
| 18:23.57 | DocScrutinizer | or rather wp.run(vmware-linux-emulation.run(xephyr.run(qemu.run(maemo)))) |
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| 18:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | there's still xephyr.close(maemo), and vmware-linux.kill(xephyr) |
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| 18:38.21 | TimmyT1 | how to use xmpp/jabber to login into yahoo? (yahoo transport) |
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| 19:00.09 | villager | peterbjornx: if the problem is swapping, which I'm pretty sure it is, adding more swap will only make it worse. |
| 19:01.02 | peterbjornx | can i disable DSME? |
| 19:01.09 | peterbjornx | temporarily |
| 19:01.14 | peterbjornx | so my n900 wont reboot |
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| 19:04.19 | villager | in my experience, when I used to try that stuff, it must be the hardware watchdog timer triggering, not sure if there's a way to turn that off |
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| 19:07.42 | villager | looks like enabling R&D mode allows you to kill the watchdog |
| 19:09.36 | villager | other than that, I haven't found anything beyond just trying not to give the system that much system load for more than a minute at a time |
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| 19:13.44 | qknight | hihi. i have a maemo phone here and i need to find the wpa2 key i have set. i lost it but i probably could somehoe recover it. but it seems that maemo is not using wpa_supplicant |
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| 19:14.06 | qknight | any idea where the plaintext password could be saved? |
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| 19:15.47 | peterbjornx | install the app |
| 19:15.51 | peterbjornx | gconf editor |
| 19:16.01 | peterbjornx | it should be in there somewhere |
| 19:16.09 | peterbjornx | i stumpled upon my pw in there |
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| 19:17.51 | peterbjornx | system->osso->connectivity->IAP |
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| 19:18.01 | peterbjornx | then one of the entries is your wlan |
| 19:21.36 | qknight | sigh, it seems i damaged the app cataloge by moving from fremantle 1.2 to 1.3 |
| 19:21.45 | qknight | right now i have only 10apps in the cataloge |
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| 19:23.07 | qknight | peterbjornx: thanks for your idea anyway |
| 19:23.29 | qknight | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=41164 < i found this about IM passwords, but i need the one wlan password... |
| 19:24.46 | qknight | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=207304 < i think this is what you were referring to |
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| 19:30.14 | internetishard | ever do three way call? |
| 19:30.24 | internetishard | stupid question, but how do you do it? |
| 19:30.33 | internetishard | Is it phone or provider dependent? |
| 19:31.08 | peterbjornx | does anyone in here know how to get chroot + sudo to work in scratchbox |
| 19:35.40 | jacekowski | peterbjornx: you can't |
| 19:36.01 | peterbjornx | why not? |
| 19:36.21 | peterbjornx | i gave up on trying to create that chroot img on my n900 |
| 19:36.22 | peterbjornx | so |
| 19:36.23 | jacekowski | because chroot requires you to be root |
| 19:36.29 | peterbjornx | sudo... |
| 19:36.37 | peterbjornx | cant that be fixed? |
| 19:36.40 | jacekowski | sudo won't work in scratchbox |
| 19:36.51 | jacekowski | unless that would be x86 scratchbox |
| 19:36.55 | peterbjornx | ok |
| 19:36.55 | jacekowski | but that defeats the purpose |
| 19:37.14 | cehteh | whats wrong with fakeroot? |
| 19:37.30 | peterbjornx | fakeroot? |
| 19:38.23 | cehteh | rtfm |
| 19:39.02 | peterbjornx | just did |
| 19:39.10 | jacekowski | fakeroot won't make chroot work |
| 19:39.22 | jacekowski | chroot is a kernel syscall that requires you to be root |
| 19:39.30 | cehteh | there is a fakechroot too, dunno if thats ported to scratchbox |
| 19:39.35 | peterbjornx | but would it fix dpkg |
| 19:39.48 | jacekowski | fakeroot fixes dpkg |
| 19:39.51 | peterbjornx | ok |
| 19:39.53 | jacekowski | if that's what you need |
| 19:40.05 | qknight | yepee found it! |
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| 19:40.49 | qknight | good that the n900 has a shell with grep :-) |
| 19:41.17 | qknight | cya! and thanks a lot |
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| 19:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: when you're running out of RAM then no stopping watchdogs/DSME will help you out |
| 19:46.01 | peterbjornx | its not ram |
| 19:46.08 | peterbjornx | i had conky running |
| 19:46.13 | peterbjornx | cpu at 100% |
| 19:46.21 | peterbjornx | swap at 20% |
| 19:47.03 | DocScrutinizer | peterbjornx: once the kernel kswapd is busy with swapping for more than 60s, I gather there's nothing really that can help you out of this situation than a very welcome hw watchdog, or just pulling battery. Unless you are willing to wait for weeks or months for your process to finish while it swaps 4GB in and out permanently |
| 19:48.21 | peterbjornx | ok then how the hell do i do this |
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| 19:48.30 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i once left my old PC for few days |
| 19:48.45 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it took it 4 days before OOM killer decided to do it's job |
| 19:49.23 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yoh |
| 19:49.31 | peterbjornx | how do i do this install |
| 19:49.37 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: been there, seen that |
| 19:50.12 | r4ph431 | hi, I'm doing my j2me "hello world!" (with microemulator), does one knows about the possible reasons for "java.net.MalformedURLException: Unable to find class ... URL" ? |
| 19:51.13 | Jaffa | r4ph431: The reasons would vary depending on if it's your class or one of microemulator's/JRE's which is wrong |
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| 19:54.30 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: once your linked list of data objects exceeds the size your system can keep in ram, each walk down the list will slow down from n microseconds to nnn milliseconds due to swapping hell. Such huge linked lists are especially likely to be seen in package managers when dealing with huge trees of dependencies in packages |
| 19:56.26 | DocScrutinizer | yast of first opensuse version was notorious to act like that, probably because of that friggin red carpet thing they tried to plumb on and also due to mono (UGH!! :-o) |
| 19:57.09 | DocScrutinizer | or was it last suse suse version before they went opensuse? can't remember |
| 19:59.26 | DocScrutinizer | same effect occured on OM opkg when doing an upgrade |
| 19:59.41 | DocScrutinizer | well the device was really short on RAM ;-D |
| 20:01.40 | DocScrutinizer | the solution always is the same: get a list of missing/updateable pkgs, then install/update each pkg without caring about dependencies. Once you're thru with all the single-pkg-install, you start up your "smart" pkg manager again to check the dependencies once more |
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| 20:02.38 | DocScrutinizer | hoping there aren't any unmet left, or if there are then so few that the pkgmanager can deal with the size of the resulting data object list |
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| 20:12.03 | internetishard | So are three way calls dependent on the phone or carrier? |
| 20:12.15 | jacekowski | both |
| 20:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | actually freeing up one MB or even a few kB of ram, e.g. by kiling another process, can speed up such a package manager in a critical situation by factor 10^6, if it's just the amound of RAM that is missing to keep the complete list resident |
| 20:14.10 | DocScrutinizer | shorting the list of objects by kicking one package out of the repository can have the same speedup effect |
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| 20:19.53 | internetishard | jacekowski: ok, how do you do it on the n900? |
| 20:20.05 | internetishard | It does call waiting when I try |
| 20:23.40 | DocScrutinizer | internetishard: if you fail to do it via dialer gui, there's always the service codes you enter via touchtone keypad. |
| 20:24.00 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if it really works on N900, it's supposed to work at least |
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| 20:29.49 | jacekowski | i don't think n900 can do conference calls |
| 20:30.30 | DocScrutinizer | why not? |
| 20:31.02 | tank-man | cause i have the patent on it! |
| 20:31.10 | DocScrutinizer | conference call is a service established in the exchange of your provider, you only need the right signalling to control that feature |
| 20:32.36 | DocScrutinizer | iirc the codes are along **0 to **3 (0 usually ending sth, 3 entering conference mode) 1 and 2 is for switching between first and second call iirc |
| 20:32.50 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 20:33.06 | SpeedEvil | Conference call with the different people coming out of different speakers would be cool |
| 20:34.28 | internetishard | They're both long distance if that matters |
| 20:34.35 | DocScrutinizer | so: ** put on hold; 0 reject waiting call, 1 accept another call waiting |
| 20:34.56 | internetishard | you just type 1 when you've an incoming call you want to add? |
| 20:35.05 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: technically your phone has only one established call |
| 20:35.23 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 20:35.27 | DocScrutinizer | so you can't split the 2 far ends to different audio destinations |
| 20:35.37 | SpeedEvil | (barring SIP/...) |
| 20:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | SIP does it differently, yes |
| 20:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | as there's no exchange at all |
| 20:36.44 | Shapeshifter | yay PAN tethering |
| 20:36.47 | Shapeshifter | \o/ |
| 20:37.00 | Shapeshifter | decently fast, too. 1.5 down, 0.5 up. not too bad. |
| 20:37.09 | SpeedEvil | is doing pan tethering in the kitchen |
| 20:37.21 | SpeedEvil | Currently working out hte right height for the shelves. |
| 20:37.36 | Shapeshifter | But this was a bit of pain, setting it up. It was easy in the end but finding exactly the right info was difficult |
| 20:37.48 | Shapeshifter | This kind of thing should work out of the box at the touch of a button. |
| 20:38.00 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: :D |
| 20:38.18 | DocScrutinizer | internetishard: get your provider's howto about 3-way via network service codes |
| 20:38.43 | DocScrutinizer | usally all just follow the 3GPP recommendations |
| 20:39.04 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: This is to what device? |
| 20:39.14 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: an archlinux lap top. |
| 20:39.23 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: n900 providing. |
| 20:40.49 | DocScrutinizer | internetishard: http://www.arib.or.jp/IMT-2000/V730Jul09/5_Appendix/R99/22/22030-340.pdf p16 >> 6.5.5 Handling of supplementary services within a call |
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| 20:41.32 | internetishard | thanks! |
| 20:42.15 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: ah - neat |
| 20:44.53 | DocScrutinizer | internetishard: please report if it works for you. I can't test this as my provider doesn't support call-waiting etc |
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| 20:45.35 | internetishard | Ok |
| 20:45.46 | internetishard | can't believe I didn't see it on the forums... Seems like something common and necessary |
| 20:47.22 | SpeedEvil | That 99.9% of people don't use I suspect. |
| 20:49.28 | Shapeshifter | And sip also works great. good stuff. I can hardly believe how badly android performes with sip. |
| 20:52.49 | DocScrutinizer | internetishard: please note you probably may want to have *#-ena http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=756257 installed, just in case it makes a difference on how N900 modem is processing the codes. Also IIRC some carriers may require a leading * or ** or a trailing # attached to the numeric codes, to distinguish them from simple DTMF sent to the far end |
| 20:54.50 | DocScrutinizer | so the sequence to accept a waiting call is either "2<send>" or "*2<send>" or "**2<send>" or "2#<send>" |
| 20:55.11 | internetishard | thanks for the clarification |
| 20:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | if neither works on a N900 with *#-ena installed, then we're out of luck |
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| 20:58.54 | DocScrutinizer | I'm afraid the dialer doesn't support any of all this, as you got no "normal" keypad during established call, and the DTMF dialpad has no <send> aka "green button" |
| 21:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | you perhaps could create a contact in addrbook with number "2" and give this contact a "call" while your dialer is busy with the established call and the call waiting |
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| 21:01.22 | SpeedEvil | Unlikely to work |
| 21:01.25 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately |
| 21:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | internetishard: just come back reporting, whatever you find out about it, please |
| 21:01.34 | SpeedEvil | wonders if pnatd is locked out on call |
| 21:01.48 | DocScrutinizer | don't think so |
| 21:02.37 | DocScrutinizer | yeah "ATD2<enter>" in pnatd would probably also work, if it works at all |
| 21:02.39 | Oppo|n900 | Hi guys |
| 21:02.49 | Oppo|n900 | I'm on a trip |
| 21:03.00 | Oppo|n900 | and want to develop something |
| 21:03.26 | Oppo|n900 | What in the best way to do so on a n900? |
| 21:03.33 | SpeedEvil | What sort of thing? |
| 21:03.46 | Oppo|n900 | anything |
| 21:03.52 | SpeedEvil | You can code in python for example on the device. |
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| 21:04.01 | Oppo|n900 | I just wanna do some coding |
| 21:04.03 | SpeedEvil | Or awk, shell, even compile C |
| 21:05.08 | Oppo|n900 | cool |
| 21:06.12 | Shapeshifter | Oppo|n900: I do a lot of python coding in vim on the n900 |
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| 21:06.31 | Oppo|n900 | I never liked vim |
| 21:06.43 | Oppo|n900 | I use nano |
| 21:06.49 | Oppo|n900 | but yea |
| 21:06.55 | Oppo|n900 | I get your point |
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| 21:33.19 | sim_ | hi, just truncated my sources.list on my n900, any hints what the defaults should be for freemantle? |
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| 22:09.07 | qknight_ | hi. what program invokes this dialog: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 22:09.20 | qknight_ | the first dialog when scrolling down with the mouse |
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| 22:28.44 | qknight_ | nobody? |
| 22:28.45 | qknight_ | *sigh* |
| 22:28.51 | qknight_ | maybe ps helps then... |
| 22:32.44 | merlin1991 | qknight_: it's rather that about nobody is around atm |
| 22:33.47 | qknight_ | merlin1991: yes, probably right considering it's monday morning ... |
| 22:33.47 | qknight_ | ;-) |
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| 22:35.21 | qknight_ | no 'ps' does not help |
| 22:35.32 | qknight_ | the dialog seems to be coming from an already running application |
| 22:35.41 | merlin1991 | my bet would be hildon-home |
| 22:35.54 | merlin1991 | but I have nfc |
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| 22:39.44 | qknight_ | merlin1991: hildon-home was not bad, but it seems to be /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu |
| 22:39.57 | qknight_ | at least when i kill the task on the shell, the gui disappears |
| 22:40.38 | qknight_ | enough for today |
| 22:40.39 | qknight_ | good night |
| 22:40.42 | qknight_ | and thanks a lot |
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| 22:42.45 | orangey | hello again! |
| 22:42.52 | orangey | just playing with asui on an n810. |
| 22:42.55 | orangey | excellent stuff.. |
| 22:43.03 | orangey | how do I remove the icons for bluetooth, wifi and the battery? |
| 22:43.09 | orangey | since asui replaces all of those!! |
| 22:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | qknight_: afail the menu gets originally started by ke_recv |
| 22:48.39 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: can i add another entry into this list? |
| 22:49.11 | DocScrutinizer | I don't know, but probably not |
| 22:49.39 | DocScrutinizer | it's for sure hardcoded in a binary. Dunno if the source is FOSS |
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| 22:50.25 | DocScrutinizer | what other entry could be useful there? |
| 22:50.27 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: then maybe i could write my own dialog? |
| 22:50.34 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: and call the other if the user wishes? |
| 22:50.40 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 22:50.52 | qknight_ | interesting |
| 22:51.55 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: select iso image to boot from would be a nice addition |
| 22:52.16 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: i've just experimented with my n900 and i'm now able to boot grml64 from the n900 device |
| 22:52.22 | qknight_ | via usb attached to my desktop comuter |
| 22:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | haha, that would mean you need a way to access that iso image from NOLO |
| 22:52.59 | qknight_ | NOLO? |
| 22:53.10 | DocScrutinizer | NOkia bootLOader |
| 22:53.37 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: no i set a boot image on the n900 device and my other computer boots from the n900 |
| 22:53.45 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 22:53.53 | qknight_ | http://lastlog.de/wiki/index.php/IdeenEcke#usb.2Fbt_client_mode_links |
| 22:54.22 | DocScrutinizer | well, that means you want to export alternative partitions for the mass storage mode then? |
| 22:54.36 | qknight_ | exactly |
| 22:54.47 | qknight_ | via the gui |
| 22:54.49 | qknight_ | or (a) gui |
| 22:54.56 | DocScrutinizer | I thought you want to boot N900 from an ISO image ;-P |
| 22:54.58 | qknight_ | but it would be nice to alter what is there |
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| 22:55.44 | DocScrutinizer | btw I got a process /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu even during normal charge |
| 22:56.38 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not completely convinced this process is the one showing the USB mode selector menu - but I haven't investigated at all yet |
| 22:57.10 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: if you have an idea let me know. i'll be reading it tomorrow |
| 22:57.15 | qknight_ | DocScrutinizer: thanks for all your input |
| 22:57.25 | qknight_ | \me is now gone ... hopefully |
| 22:57.29 | DocScrutinizer | possibly a dbus-monitor --system during plugin of USB would help to shed some light on the whole process |
| 22:57.42 | DocScrutinizer | gnite |
| 23:00.30 | DocScrutinizer | qknight_: check osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh |
| 23:00.45 | DocScrutinizer | you probably could link in a selector dialog there |
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| 23:08.29 | chem|st | hum? |
| 23:09.22 | DocScrutinizer | qknight_: /usr/sbin/ke-recv monitors events in /sys and on kernel at large (here: attached USB cable) and calls the menu (not sure which binary) and then obviously executes /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh |
| 23:09.33 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: muh¿ |
| 23:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 23:10.19 | chem|st | s/o pinged me days ago... |
| 23:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | qknight_: all without warranty for correctness |
| 23:10.34 | chem|st | guess it was you |
| 23:11.34 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: aah, was just asking if you want to do another few bans on tmo. Except for un-abill-uk it seems all got already sent to \b\ or elsewhere to troll there |
| 23:12.13 | chem|st | s/o else is doing that for now as ppl started to hunt me again |
| 23:12.35 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: AIUI you can see deleted posts, so you may find http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75343 thread amusing |
| 23:14.49 | DocScrutinizer | our arab terrorist who breaks USB spare parts out of his dad's phone to glue(1) them to N900 finally gone mental on his trolling nature ;-P |
| 23:15.46 | chem|st | "Your just f.ing mental "^^ |
| 23:16.20 | chem|st | sjgadsby is cleaning the place hu?! |
| 23:16.34 | DocScrutinizer | hehe, pretty rapidly even |
| 23:17.22 | DocScrutinizer | just un-abill of course didn't leave after his melodramatic "goodbye" |
| 23:18.31 | DocScrutinizer | this guy is resistent against all sorts of bashing, blaming, temporary bands and other frustrating stuff, he simply keeps on flooding tmo ;-D |
| 23:18.49 | DocScrutinizer | s/bands/bans/. |
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| 23:19.31 | DocScrutinizer | ""your not god you know"" ;-P |
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| 23:22.32 | DocScrutinizer | ""nigga they did it again, delete my post. Gonna call my lawyer"" - what a donut |
| 23:24.50 | DocScrutinizer | seriously tmo is the only forum so far where trolls come up like "I am a troll you **** BEEP *** - ban me ban me BAN ME!!!" |
| 23:25.29 | DocScrutinizer | no idea if that's the lowest class or the top of trolling |
| 23:26.37 | SpeedEvil | Funky. |
| 23:26.54 | DocScrutinizer | seems the inverted the trolling paradigm, see how fast you can get banned, rather than trying to mess up as long as possible without getting banned |
| 23:26.58 | SpeedEvil | I have got the media player playing an audio file. |
| 23:27.02 | DocScrutinizer | they* |
| 23:27.10 | SpeedEvil | Without showing its window in the task manager |
| 23:27.12 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: heh :-D |
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| 23:27.29 | SpeedEvil | I think I killed the window at just the right moment |
| 23:27.58 | DocScrutinizer | well mafw will happily continue even when you kill frontend - AIUI |
| 23:28.46 | DocScrutinizer | afaik it's (the pipe) not even a child process of frontend, so it won't really notice when you kill -9 it |
| 23:29.25 | SpeedEvil | Naah - from the UI |
| 23:29.30 | SpeedEvil | Not doing anything wierd. |
| 23:30.02 | DocScrutinizer | you can have multiple frontends all in sync regarding the state of mafw backend, and depending on frontend implementation it probably won't stop playback when you close any of those frontends |
| 23:30.13 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: sure |
| 23:30.19 | DocScrutinizer | got it |
| 23:30.49 | DocScrutinizer | just saying frontend probably missed to send a "stop playback" dbus msg on dieing |
| 23:30.52 | fusi | this is all going horribly wrong |
| 23:31.24 | fusi | cant use liboauth because it depends on openssl with conflicts with gpl \o/ |
| 23:31.30 | fusi | which* |
| 23:31.40 | fusi | so i cant release it |
| 23:31.47 | fusi | fantubbytastic |
| 23:32.40 | DocScrutinizer | openssl conflicts with gpl? |
| 23:32.48 | DocScrutinizer | err |
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| 23:34.32 | SpeedEvil | http://qdb.us/306481 :) |
| 23:35.35 | fusi | DocScrutinizer: thats what ./configure is telling me |
| 23:35.58 | fusi | SpeedEvil: heh |
| 23:36.19 | fusi | either way i lost that other vm |
| 23:36.27 | fusi | and i cant remember what i did now :( |
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| 23:38.27 | fusi | fed up |
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| 23:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | qknight_: see |
| 23:57.02 | DocScrutinizer | # FIXME: these should come from startup scripts |
| 23:57.03 | DocScrutinizer | export MMC_MOUNTPOINT='/media/mmc1' |
| 23:57.05 | DocScrutinizer | export INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT='/home/user/MyDocs' |
| 23:57.21 | DocScrutinizer | in /etc/init.d/ke-recv |
