| 00:00.08 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer , with Harmattan compiled with support for thumb-2, does it mean we can't ever use the binary parts on N900? |
| 00:00.41 | cehteh | cant someone hook a n950 with openssh up to the internet? |
| 00:00.52 | zeltak | hya guys. i have sinned |
| 00:00.54 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: |
| 00:00.56 | Hurrian | cehteh, it'll get rm -rf'd ASAP |
| 00:00.59 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Jan 1 1970 usb -> ../../devices/platform/i2c_omap.1/i2c-1/1-004a/twl5031_bcc/power_supply/usb |
| 00:01.00 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Jan 1 1970 vac -> ../../devices/platform/i2c_omap.1/i2c-1/1-004a/twl5031_bcc/power_supply/vac |
| 00:01.09 | zeltak | i gave up today on my n900 for an android device :) |
| 00:01.18 | ShadowJK | roughly equivalent to twl4030 on n900 then |
| 00:01.21 | Hurrian | zeltak, which one? |
| 00:01.27 | zeltak | just wanted to say thx to all the great tips help i got here :) |
| 00:01.35 | cehteh | Hurrian: openssh .. maybe giving only known people access .. and syslog to some other host |
| 00:01.39 | zeltak | old one..nexsus one (it was a straight swao) |
| 00:01.42 | zeltak | *swap |
| 00:01.56 | Hurrian | that's fine, it's a very "open" phone |
| 00:02.03 | zeltak | heheh |
| 00:02.05 | ShadowJK | zeltak, what happend to your n900? still working? |
| 00:02.07 | zeltak | i still LOVE the n900 |
| 00:02.09 | Hurrian | iirc people got native linux on it |
| 00:02.10 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:02.22 | Hurrian | so have fun with your 1GHz processor ;) |
| 00:02.36 | zeltak | yeah it was working but i got a android tabler and it made me make the evil switch :) |
| 00:02.42 | zeltak | *tablet |
| 00:03.03 | javispedro | driver seems much changed |
| 00:03.34 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 00:03.39 | zeltak | anyway ill stil follow the n900/meego dev but alas without a n900 :) |
| 00:04.02 | zeltak | if i wasnt a stinkin' poor student i would have kept it for old times sake :) |
| 00:04.15 | Hurrian | zeltak, please refer to MeeGo for MSM/QSD |
| 00:04.23 | zeltak | heheh kk :) |
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| 00:05.22 | zeltak | anyway thx again to everyone :) |
| 00:05.23 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer , how much of Harmattan UI is closed-source? |
| 00:05.48 | DocScrutinizer | don't ask me - I'm 'only' the hw dude |
| 00:05.56 | Hurrian | ah, k |
| 00:06.05 | cehteh | Hurrian: just try to get the sources then you find out :) |
| 00:06.34 | DocScrutinizer | I guess a friggin lot, way too much as usual |
| 00:06.37 | Hurrian | cehteh, cant access the nokia-binaries repo even using the deb included with harmattan |
| 00:06.44 | cehteh | :) |
| 00:06.56 | cehteh | closed-binary software :P |
| 00:07.10 | Hurrian | also known as - won't run on N900 without SOC upgrade |
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| 00:07.53 | Hurrian | hmm, should probably give tmo a heads up about that part |
| 00:08.00 | javispedro | simple answer, grab meego CE: |
| 00:08.08 | cehteh | i already saied to doc yesterday .. for all its worth, he could unsolder the SOC from the n950 and put it in the n900 :) |
| 00:08.10 | javispedro | all of the harmattan UI that is present there is open. |
| 00:08.18 | javispedro | the UI that is not present in meego CE is closed. |
| 00:08.57 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: and I answered: "incl TWL 5031?" |
| 00:09.22 | cehteh | heh :) you cant it shutdown :P |
| 00:09.25 | Hurrian | cehteh, anyone know what exactly the ball socket type on the two devices are? |
| 00:09.45 | cehteh | Hurrian: no idea, chances are that it will not fit |
| 00:09.57 | cehteh | but iff ... :) |
| 00:10.00 | Hurrian | there are at least 3 socket types for omap3430, and idk about 3630 |
| 00:10.18 | Hurrian | uhh s/ball socket type/package type/ |
| 00:10.33 | DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbudocumentcenter.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12037#62 FTW |
| 00:10.39 | cehteh | also voltage regulation, kernel and stuff |
| 00:10.54 | cehteh | dunno if thats compatible at all |
| 00:11.06 | SpeedEvil | No chance. |
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| 00:11.12 | DocScrutinizer | that's where twl5031 comes into game |
| 00:11.27 | cehteh | well give doc some time to figure out |
| 00:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I'd have guessed as well |
| 00:11.43 | *** part/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 00:11.46 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: PFFF |
| 00:11.49 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 00:11.54 | cehteh | pimp my n900 :) |
| 00:12.05 | Hurrian | hmm, guessed that the voltages that power the omap3430 would probably blow up the 3630 |
| 00:12.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'd rather pimp a N950 ;-P |
| 00:12.16 | Hurrian | new processes and all |
| 00:12.18 | DocScrutinizer | add a uSD socket |
| 00:12.26 | cehteh | has none? |
| 00:12.29 | DocScrutinizer | 64GB eMMC |
| 00:12.39 | javispedro | probably easier than virtually redoing the n900... |
| 00:12.46 | Hurrian | Doc : it's look-for-gpio-on-boards time! |
| 00:12.46 | DocScrutinizer | NO SIR, NO STORAGE SLOT |
| 00:13.13 | cehteh | n9 neither? |
| 00:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | NOPE |
| 00:13.21 | cehteh | muaha |
| 00:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 00:13.26 | Hurrian | both of them, non-expandable |
| 00:13.28 | Hurrian | nokia, wtf? |
| 00:13.39 | javispedro | they do not want you to buy it, remember? |
| 00:13.47 | cehteh | like apple :P |
| 00:13.55 | Hurrian | in before 64GB is quickly dwarfed, similar to N95 8GB situation ;) |
| 00:13.58 | cehteh | yeah and i will not buy it |
| 00:13.59 | DocScrutinizer | we'll sell H-E-N for $29.98 |
| 00:14.06 | cehteh | but i wont buy a WP7 either! |
| 00:14.17 | javispedro | cheaper than $29.99!! I'M SOLD!! TAKE MY MONEY!!! |
| 00:14.31 | Hurrian | in before we find out that the N900 supports uSDXC |
| 00:14.41 | javispedro | it does.. |
| 00:14.44 | cehteh | it does? |
| 00:14.52 | javispedro | not out of the box. |
| 00:14.59 | cehteh | ok |
| 00:15.06 | Hurrian | needs patching of omap-hsmmc? |
| 00:15.10 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: even comes * |
| 00:15.10 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net) |
| 00:15.15 | DocScrutinizer | with adapter* |
| 00:15.26 | DocScrutinizer | deal? |
| 00:15.28 | javispedro | Hurrian: no. just needs exfat. |
| 00:15.30 | cehteh | well RAM is the problem not flash .. 32+16 is fairly enough for me |
| 00:16.04 | Hurrian | javispedro, screw exfat, ext-filesystem-series for life! |
| 00:16.05 | cehteh | is exfat mandatory for SDXC? i think you can reformat it to ext3/4 |
| 00:16.29 | javispedro | it is mandatory the same way fat32 is for sdhc > 2 GiB. |
| 00:16.31 | DocScrutinizer | for $59.87 you get the luxury XXL set, incl adapter AND a custom made powered hub that also can power the N9 |
| 00:16.44 | cehteh | so in no way :) |
| 00:16.46 | Hurrian | ah, just wait a few years, and the true n900 enthusiasts will come out, pimping out the hardware |
| 00:16.50 | DocScrutinizer | with crad reader built in |
| 00:16.55 | DocScrutinizer | card even |
| 00:17.02 | cehteh | bbl |
| 00:17.09 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer: make it a back cover replacement, and it's a deal ;) |
| 00:17.19 | DocScrutinizer | hmmmmmm |
| 00:17.20 | cehteh | the n9 has no back cover |
| 00:17.29 | Hurrian | fine, the metal plate |
| 00:17.39 | Hurrian | uhh, "polycarbonate" plate |
| 00:17.48 | cehteh | plaste :) |
| 00:17.48 | DocScrutinizer | I dunno if the 6 pcs AAA cells fit into any reasonably sized back cover |
| 00:18.00 | DocScrutinizer | but we planned to make it a back snapon |
| 00:18.09 | cehteh | use mono cells :P |
| 00:18.25 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : wonder if the SD specification supports hubs |
| 00:18.30 | Hurrian | prolly not |
| 00:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | WUT? |
| 00:18.41 | cehteh | sdio? |
| 00:18.43 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: It does |
| 00:18.51 | Hurrian | ah |
| 00:18.53 | DocScrutinizer | SD spec? |
| 00:18.59 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: SDIO cards can have 8 logical cards |
| 00:19.04 | cehteh | haha µSD raid :) |
| 00:19.06 | DocScrutinizer | wtf r u talking bout? |
| 00:19.08 | MohammadAG | <cehteh> cant someone hook a n950 with openssh up to the internet? |
| 00:19.13 | Hurrian | well, it's time for replacing the EMMC part with a SDIO controller |
| 00:19.15 | MohammadAG | I did that at some point |
| 00:19.22 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: The RDA ones are |
| 00:19.29 | Hurrian | that would make for a nice mod |
| 00:19.33 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: you just need to do annoying stuff with tunnels |
| 00:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: please enlighten me, what are the guys after? |
| 00:19.58 | SpeedEvil | Login, ssh out to your box, making a tunnel. Login back through the tunneled port |
| 00:20.15 | SpeedEvil | dunno - not been reading backscroll |
| 00:20.19 | cehteh | heh |
| 00:20.20 | DocScrutinizer | N9 has no *SD* |
| 00:20.29 | cehteh | forget it .. i am out |
| 00:20.45 | DocScrutinizer | so what's the use of >> wonder if the SD specification supports hubs<< ? o.O |
| 00:21.29 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: / |
| 00:21.34 | DocScrutinizer | o/ even |
| 00:21.38 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : adding uSD capability to N9/50 |
| 00:21.51 | DocScrutinizer | and what got that todo with hubs? |
| 00:22.07 | Hurrian | by removing EMMC part, and replacing it with some controller that allows you to use >1 SD card |
| 00:22.18 | DocScrutinizer | OUCH |
| 00:22.21 | DocScrutinizer | ok |
| 00:22.32 | DocScrutinizer | now it makes *some* sense ;-P |
| 00:22.56 | Hurrian | iirc, emmc only uses ~8-9 pins right? |
| 00:23.18 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, I' planning something actually feasible: USB hostmode, a hub, with integrated cardreader, and a batterypack |
| 00:23.19 | Hurrian | not all of the ~100++++ balls on the board |
| 00:23.25 | *** join/#maemo Soder (~Soder@53.96.227.87.static.vx.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 00:23.28 | DocScrutinizer | right |
| 00:23.37 | DocScrutinizer | maybe 18 |
| 00:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | but not all the 150 |
| 00:23.48 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, which device are we talkin about, N9/50 or N900? |
| 00:23.54 | DocScrutinizer | N9 |
| 00:23.57 | Hurrian | ah |
| 00:24.02 | MohammadAG | we have hostmode on the N900 |
| 00:24.13 | Hurrian | well, that's going to stick out like a sore thumb on the back |
| 00:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | though you could use same dongle for N900 as well |
| 00:24.20 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you know what the best part is? |
| 00:24.23 | DocScrutinizer | see MohammadAG ^^^ |
| 00:24.33 | MohammadAG | status menu applets are MTF |
| 00:24.37 | MohammadAG | not C/Gtk |
| 00:24.40 | DocScrutinizer | the $59.87 |
| 00:24.45 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo1 (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 00:24.49 | SpeedEvil | MTF?/ |
| 00:24.49 | MohammadAG | so if you actually get hostmode working |
| 00:25.00 | MohammadAG | I can get it all in the applet, rather than a standard app |
| 00:25.00 | Hurrian | SpeedEvil: Meego Touch Framework |
| 00:25.02 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 00:25.04 | MohammadAG | MeeGo Touch Framework |
| 00:25.20 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that sounds awesome |
| 00:25.34 | MohammadAG | yep :D |
| 00:25.38 | javispedro | hits MohammadAG |
| 00:25.45 | javispedro | why does it sound awesome??? |
| 00:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | we should sell it to Nokia, for a few 100k |
| 00:25.58 | MohammadAG | cause I don't have to learn C/Gtk |
| 00:26.02 | Hurrian | waits for someone to break a N9/50, take it apart, and check the eMMC part |
| 00:26.03 | MohammadAG | as on Fremantle |
| 00:26.13 | MohammadAG | hits javispedro with an N950 |
| 00:26.18 | javispedro | but you need to learn MTF! |
| 00:26.19 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 00:26.25 | MohammadAG | I know Qt :P |
| 00:26.43 | MohammadAG | QDialog -> MDialog, seriously, that's not hard :P |
| 00:26.44 | javispedro | it's like a different world |
| 00:26.51 | MohammadAG | QSlider -> MSlider |
| 00:26.53 | javispedro | they force MVC patterns on you! |
| 00:27.05 | javispedro | the evil bastards. |
| 00:27.15 | javispedro | (;P) |
| 00:27.19 | MohammadAG | admit it |
| 00:27.24 | MohammadAG | Gtk sucks |
| 00:27.24 | MohammadAG | runs |
| 00:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: MohammadAG is also **special** |
| 00:28.00 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 00:28.21 | MohammadAG | actually you and Jaffa are |
| 00:28.29 | MohammadAG | you got your N950s first!!!1! |
| 00:28.50 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo2 (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 00:28.51 | javispedro | ponders wheter telling #gtk |
| 00:29.35 | DocScrutinizer | ~ MohammadAG |
| 00:29.35 | infobot | mohammadag is probably your father, or **special** |
| 00:30.33 | MohammadAG | javispedro, that gtk sucks? |
| 00:30.34 | MohammadAG | runs again |
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| 00:32.12 | javispedro | bah, there's only 24 in #gtk+ |
| 00:32.22 | javispedro | not enough for a zerg swarm |
| 00:33.01 | Hurrian | hmm, "N9 and MeeGo will be supported for years" ... by the community |
| 00:33.12 | javispedro | ha! |
| 00:33.14 | Hurrian | knowing nokia, all support is MIA after 365 days |
| 00:33.21 | javispedro | just watch what will happen when the n9 is released. |
| 00:33.25 | Hurrian | it's pretty damn consistent |
| 00:33.58 | nox- | javispedro, and not even in germany? eh? |
| 00:34.18 | Hurrian | javispedro : after N9, nokia will drop everything else and go full-on WP7 house |
| 00:34.34 | nox- | yeah likely |
| 00:34.39 | javispedro | Hurrian: and the community will drop everything that is not the N9. |
| 00:34.58 | Hurrian | javispedro , i feel like a NIT owner in late 2008 :( |
| 00:35.23 | Hurrian | oh well, the solution would mostly be to push N9/50 people to the MeeGo forums |
| 00:35.26 | mr_jrt | When a dbus service is automatically activated, and then terminates normally (when done), what would stop the DBus server from invoking it again on a subsquent call? AFAICS (I wrapped it in a shell script that logs), it's not even trying to. |
| 00:35.56 | javispedro | I _am_ a NIT owner and developer in mid 2011, and here I am pondering whether it is interesting to keep on working for the n8x0 cause I only know _one_ person using it (that happens to be a nice person...) |
| 00:37.01 | Hurrian | javispedro , take it up as a hobby |
| 00:37.34 | javispedro | I do -- also because I still fondly remember the challenges of having to battle old compiler bugs et all. |
| 00:37.36 | Hurrian | anyways, none of the new people will touch the N8x0, because of the old processor |
| 00:38.16 | Hurrian | interestingly, there's a Nokia store near my place that still has a poster of a N8x0 with the keyboard |
| 00:38.19 | DocScrutinizer | ~ MohammadAG |
| 00:38.19 | infobot | mohammadag is probably your father, or **special** |
| 00:38.42 | Hurrian | i asked for it, they said they're no longer sold |
| 00:38.48 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG, your king, wants, no, REQUESTS you send your N950 to him! |
| 00:39.19 | DocScrutinizer | hmmmmm |
| 00:39.27 | DocScrutinizer | lemme ponder that |
| 00:39.34 | MohammadAG | he will also disappear on Monday |
| 00:39.34 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 00:39.37 | DocScrutinizer | maybe..... |
| 00:39.41 | MohammadAG | maybe tuesday too |
| 00:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | meh, NO |
| 00:39.53 | javispedro | high treason! |
| 00:40.04 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo1 (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 00:40.11 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer , did the N950 come in a box that says "dev kit" in large font? |
| 00:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 00:40.35 | DocScrutinizer | you've seen the pictures I shared, no? |
| 00:40.40 | MohammadAG | I think it also says go create |
| 00:40.57 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, in CAPITALS |
| 00:40.58 | javispedro | go figure. |
| 00:41.02 | MohammadAG | and in small invisible colours, go kill elop |
| 00:41.15 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, i just saw the box shots on Engadget |
| 00:41.27 | DocScrutinizer | nah, that's hidden in the cryptic sourcecode printed there |
| 00:41.46 | *** part/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 00:41.49 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 00:41.57 | Hurrian | it'd be interesting to see if nokia actually is going to collect those devices |
| 00:42.03 | MohammadAG | /cycle is so much fun eh javispedro? |
| 00:42.08 | DocScrutinizer | checkout user joerg900 on share.ovi.com |
| 00:42.19 | javispedro | no, actually, wrong keyboard focus. |
| 00:42.20 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, they already stated what they'll do |
| 00:42.25 | MohammadAG | you want it? keep it |
| 00:42.32 | Hurrian | oh, that's nice |
| 00:42.35 | MohammadAG | you don't? want an N9? |
| 00:42.53 | MohammadAG | just put it to good use in the "loan" period |
| 00:42.54 | javispedro | you are a bad boy? black helicopters come and steal it from you. |
| 00:43.01 | DocScrutinizer | nothing guaranteed yet |
| 00:43.04 | Hurrian | time to F5 ebay |
| 00:43.33 | Hurrian | MohammadAG : MeeFart |
| 00:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: and pick â¬500 from your purse ;-P |
| 00:43.56 | Hurrian | MohammadAG : DO EET |
| 00:44.37 | Hurrian | a fart app should be considered "good use", right? |
| 00:44.50 | DocScrutinizer | YES SIR |
| 00:44.50 | Hurrian | hmm, tactile fart. |
| 00:44.59 | DocScrutinizer | heheheheeeeheeeeee |
| 00:45.41 | DocScrutinizer | with highly live realistic carefully designed vibrator support |
| 00:45.54 | Hurrian | feel the fart! |
| 00:46.20 | Hurrian | feel the stomach grumbling! |
| 00:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | the ACME best fart app EVER |
| 00:46.35 | DocScrutinizer | OMFG |
| 00:46.36 | Hurrian | way better than the non-tactile iFart! |
| 00:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | we should do it |
| 00:46.52 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : QML pl0x |
| 00:47.21 | Hurrian | some people don't have N9/50's. |
| 00:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: goo GOOOO, fart app with vibrator FTW |
| 00:47.42 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer: perfect app for the pink N9 |
| 00:47.51 | DocScrutinizer | meeeeheheheheeeee |
| 00:47.53 | Hurrian | someone mail Nokia about Harmattan Stars |
| 00:47.53 | javispedro | no more beers for you tonight. |
| 00:48.06 | Hurrian | preinstalled apps for the N9 |
| 00:48.23 | DocScrutinizer | wishes for his first beer |
| 00:48.39 | DocScrutinizer | damn. /m is a command |
| 00:48.57 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-09 02:48:14] <-> wishes> for his first beer |
| 00:49.04 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, works if you're sitting on the device |
| 00:49.04 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, considering the N9's form factor, it'd be perfect for a vibrator |
| 00:49.16 | MohammadAG | with NFC of course |
| 00:49.30 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net) |
| 00:49.32 | Hurrian | waitwaitwaitwait |
| 00:49.58 | Hurrian | we use the device sensors to record your fart, and you can share your fart via NFC |
| 00:50.23 | DocScrutinizer | darn, now it gets sophisticated |
| 00:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | should we get a highscore server? |
| 00:50.59 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : longest fart |
| 00:51.11 | Hurrian | highest back-end valve pressure release |
| 00:51.17 | DocScrutinizer | aaaah, it's Friday |
| 00:51.44 | *** join/#maemo wmarone_ (~wmarone@c-67-174-148-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:52.27 | Hurrian | more ideas: use your friends' farts as ringtones! |
| 00:52.44 | DocScrutinizer | now, *is* there a newer "firmware" for N950, or is the none? |
| 00:53.04 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : OCF on Nokia site is still the 2011-06-22 version |
| 00:53.27 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, user generated content will also be pushed to your homescreen |
| 00:53.31 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 00:54.06 | DocScrutinizer | you know N9(50) has *steeo* recording |
| 00:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | stereo* |
| 00:54.15 | Hurrian | wants a N950 to play with |
| 00:54.18 | Hurrian | sigh. |
| 00:54.50 | Hurrian | oh, on a side note, is the N950 as heavy as the N900? |
| 00:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | actually I should design an "acoustic stereo separation enhancer" which is a plastic sheet with velvet, with a slot to hold the N9(50) in the middle of the long side, and with a tripod to place it on a table or anywhere, to record high quality stereo |
| 00:57.24 | DocScrutinizer | the dimensions are even optimal to place the device inside an artificial head |
| 00:58.09 | javispedro | this all for a fart application. |
| 00:58.18 | DocScrutinizer | a fair bit less than N900 |
| 00:58.19 | Hurrian | and if i'm getting this right, the N950 has a 12MP camera while the N9 has 8? |
| 00:58.33 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: no, not related |
| 00:58.43 | GeneralAntilles | Hurrian, no. |
| 00:58.53 | GeneralAntilles | Hurrian, the FCC proto did, the current devices do not. |
| 00:59.02 | GeneralAntilles | Size reasons with the N9, I believe. |
| 00:59.37 | DocScrutinizer | s/S/Pr/ |
| 00:59.55 | Hurrian | hmm, since when did nokia care about device thickness? |
| 01:00.30 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: time for checking night mode, eh? |
| 01:00.51 | GeneralAntilles | Hurrian, with the N9, I guess. |
| 01:01.18 | Hurrian | ah, too bad the Step 5 is never going to make it past N9 |
| 01:01.54 | GeneralAntilles | Hey, Elop may yet get hit by a bus. |
| 01:02.37 | Hurrian | it's like driving into a wall at 120km/h : nokia looks like they're going full-force as planned with the N9, but we all know that it'll be cut ASAP |
| 01:02.58 | *** join/#maemo Ken-Young (~Ken@pool-151-199-36-118.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:04.09 | javispedro | well. |
| 01:04.12 | javispedro | no. |
| 01:04.24 | javispedro | actually I say it's more like an alcoholic bus driver |
| 01:05.10 | javispedro | which suddenly decides to accelerate full gas and _then_ they put the wall in front of it =) |
| 01:06.07 | javispedro | cause the entire "step N of N" has not exactly been a linear process.. |
| 01:07.36 | javispedro | (I am sure whoever made up that plan didn't expect to change toolkits in step N) |
| 01:10.22 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 01:11.09 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 01:11.26 | DocScrutinizer | sounds pretty in line with my OM deja-vu |
| 01:14.27 | DocScrutinizer | curses tracker rendering camera unusable after boot of N900 |
| 01:14.48 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, how hard did OM drop the devices? |
| 01:14.49 | DocScrutinizer | HELL! FIRE! |
| 01:15.15 | DocScrutinizer | "data of media files gets collected - ETA 13:10" |
| 01:16.43 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: From 40000 feet. |
| 01:19.30 | Hurrian | ah, finally got my native linux desktop install back |
| 01:19.33 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, MeeGo has tracker |
| 01:19.37 | MohammadAG | Here's the fun part though |
| 01:19.46 | MohammadAG | Harmattan has a modified closed source mafw |
| 01:20.13 | MohammadAG | qmafw as it's called |
| 01:20.36 | Hurrian | MohammadAG : what the hell is nokia doing all over again? |
| 01:20.46 | MohammadAG | MafwGstRenderer has the same calls, my mediaplayer should work on Harmattan |
| 01:26.29 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 01:29.48 | javispedro | Nokia could btw also get a ride on those guy's AndroidVM clone thing. |
| 01:30.19 | javispedro | I'm sure someone has debated that inside HQ and probably wondered whether it would be worth the risks to Qt as a dev platform.. |
| 01:30.31 | Hurrian | javispedro , Alien Dalvik? |
| 01:30.34 | javispedro | yep. |
| 01:30.54 | Hurrian | hmm, not worth licensing just for a one-off device |
| 01:31.03 | Hurrian | also, RAM constraints |
| 01:31.30 | javispedro | one-off device = every device is one-off, and RAM constraints with it being the phone with most RAM even between the droid crowd? |
| 01:31.53 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@189.115.80.233) |
| 01:31.56 | SpeedEvil | RAM constraints could be addressed by doing a harmattan-on-n900 dev enviromnet |
| 01:31.59 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@12.71.215.42) |
| 01:32.24 | javispedro | ?? |
| 01:32.28 | Hurrian | no, i meant that the N9 is likely the first and last mass-sale MeeGo phone from Nokia |
| 01:32.43 | javispedro | it is not a meego phone.. |
| 01:32.48 | Hurrian | even, then, i dont think you can consider the target markets "mass sale" |
| 01:32.59 | Ken-Young | Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the rx-51 file to make the N900's EuroSign key produce Escape instead? |
| 01:33.17 | Hurrian | javispedro, i thought it was running a certified meego instance? |
| 01:33.41 | javispedro | certi-what? |
| 01:34.04 | Hurrian | the thing where you can legally call a distro "meego" |
| 01:34.27 | MohammadAG | hah |
| 01:34.28 | MohammadAG | hahaha |
| 01:35.13 | Hurrian | MohammadAG : nokia didn't get the LinFoundation green light to be a certified meego instance? |
| 01:35.15 | javispedro | I do not think such process exists -- there's this compliance thing and harmattan isn't. |
| 01:37.55 | javispedro | but of course given enough money they probably can buy whatever they want. meego was an old unused trademark intel had floating around either way... |
| 01:38.00 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 01:40.24 | Hurrian | brb, new kernel |
| 01:41.47 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~sumomo@121.54.2.104) |
| 01:41.58 | Hurrian | ah wow, ~10 second boot time |
| 01:42.01 | Hurrian | all hail the custom kernel |
| 01:50.01 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@12.71.215.42) |
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| 02:00.10 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: you know managing pictures and especially moving them from one album into another is a royal PITA on share.ovi.com |
| 02:00.24 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: I'm doing all this "just for you" ;-) |
| 02:00.34 | GeneralAntilles | Flickr might be easier. :P |
| 02:01.55 | *** join/#maemo sid_ (~sid@nrbg-4d07025f.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 02:10.24 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:14.34 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
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| 02:23.54 | DocScrutinizer | te more I use N950, the more I love my N900 |
| 02:24.30 | Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, How long have you had your '950? |
| 02:25.10 | ds3 | is the N950 for sale then? ;) |
| 02:25.17 | *** join/#maemo romaxa (~romaxa@ip167.67-202-83.static.steadfast.net) |
| 02:25.29 | auenf | meego multitasking pauses background videos (unlike maemo5)? |
| 02:25.39 | DocScrutinizer | sure, that N950 is snappy with all the 1GB and 1GHz and whatnot, but honestly, taking all into account I think the N900 is a magnitude better than N950 |
| 02:25.52 | auenf | all N950s are 'borrowed' from nokia, not bought iirc |
| 02:26.18 | DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: like 36h now |
| 02:28.43 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : not as massive tech jump from N8x0 to N900 |
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| 02:33.20 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 02:41.46 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.thecameracompar |
| 02:42.36 | *** join/#maemo pauly (45faa837@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.250.168.55) |
| 02:43.08 | *** join/#maemo npm (~npm@cpe-76-90-30-220.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:43.13 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 02:44.00 | GeneralAntilles | The jealous maker. |
| 02:44.28 | DocScrutinizer | eeh? |
| 02:45.08 | DocScrutinizer | most of those pics are N900, and I think whatever app I used to shoot http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.thecameracompar, it's not available on N950 |
| 02:46.24 | DocScrutinizer | oops |
| 02:46.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.thecameracompar/joerg900.10040?sort=0 that one |
| 02:47.15 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@122.151.73.120) |
| 02:47.35 | Termana | good morning |
| 02:47.39 | DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.thecameracompar/joerg900.10156 and up are N950 |
| 02:48.39 | jonwil | I got a request for someone with a Harmattan device (or harmattan root filesystem image). Can someone do a search of the filesystem and find any files that contain the string IncomingCellBroadcast? |
| 02:48.54 | jonwil | There should be a reference in libsms-manager |
| 02:49.12 | DocScrutinizer | "04:4 " :-P |
| 02:49.16 | jonwil | but I want to find out if anything on the N950 is answering these signals |
| 02:49.50 | DocScrutinizer | and now "04:49" after blank and wakeup |
| 02:49.53 | DocScrutinizer | weird |
| 02:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | errr, could we restrict it a itsy bit, like to /usr maybe? |
| 02:51.11 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: ^^^ |
| 02:51.21 | jonwil | ok, yeah restrict to /usr |
| 02:51.45 | jonwil | I doubt anything using it is going to be on anywhere other than /usr given that libsms-manager.so is on /usr/lib |
| 02:53.11 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~Chewtoy@c80-216-56-179.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 02:53.40 | DocScrutinizer | searching... |
| 02:53.54 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# grep -rl IncomingCellBroadcast /usr |
| 02:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | grep: /usr/share/slpgwd/ServerLayer.zip: Permission denied |
| 02:54.09 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo1 (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-213-035.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 02:54.42 | DocScrutinizer | grep: /usr/lib/compat-ld/ld: No such file or directory |
| 02:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 02:55.35 | DocScrutinizer | stale link? |
| 02:56.13 | DocScrutinizer | grep: /usr/share/sms-handlers/ee84-0018.internal_handler: Permission denied |
| 02:57.05 | DocScrutinizer | thank you Aegis! |
| 02:57.38 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-ring |
| 02:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/lib/libsms-manager.so.0.0.0 |
| 02:59.29 | jonwil | ok, sounds like telepathy-ring (closed source as usual) is handling the cbsms |
| 02:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | searching... |
| 02:59.55 | jonwil | ok |
| 03:00.35 | DocScrutinizer | telepathy-ring must not be closed |
| 03:00.51 | jonwil | why do you say that? |
| 03:00.51 | DocScrutinizer | at least I'd be puzzled when it is |
| 03:01.00 | jonwil | it was closed in Maemo5 |
| 03:01.02 | jonwil | Fremantle |
| 03:01.06 | DocScrutinizer | :-o |
| 03:01.18 | jonwil | and the one in Harmattan is likely a derivitive of the Fremantle one |
| 03:01.27 | jonwil | its open source in MeeGo since it talks to the open source ofono backend |
| 03:01.36 | jonwil | but Harmattan uses the closed source backend |
| 03:01.40 | jonwil | the old CSD daemon |
| 03:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/lib/libsms-manager.so.0 |
| 03:02.16 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 03:02.26 | jonwil | ok, I knew about the libsms-manager ones (that's where the signal comes from). So assuming nothing else is referencing it, it should be telepathy-ring that handles it |
| 03:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | grep: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/python-support.pth: No such file or directory |
| 03:03.20 | DocScrutinizer | grep: /usr/sbin/iptables-xml: No such file or directory |
| 03:04.00 | DocScrutinizer | grep: /usr/bin/osa: Permission denied |
| 03:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | grep: /usr/bin/[[: No such file or directory |
| 03:04.03 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# |
| 03:04.32 | jonwil | now all I gotta do is find a binary of telepathy-ring (arm or x86) to pull into IDA to reverse engineer :P |
| 03:05.49 | jonwil | damn, its not in the Harmattan SDK :( |
| 03:06.51 | *** join/#maemo mesx (~mesx@89-172-239-80.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 03:08.39 | jonwil | ok, looks like reverse engineering libcellular-qt may tell me more about what I want to know |
| 03:09.15 | jonwil | at least per what networkcell.h has to say |
| 03:13.29 | DocScrutinizer | harmattan has a "show cell info" switch in settings |
| 03:14.16 | jonwil | My guess is that the setting is wired to setNameDisplayEnabled in cellular-qt |
| 03:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | fair guess |
| 03:23.05 | jonwil | my god cellular-qt is comprehensive |
| 03:25.40 | MohammadAG | I still wonder how the same people who made compilers can't make (proper) decompilers |
| 03:26.43 | jonwil | decompilation is hard |
| 03:26.53 | jonwil | especially in anything that has had optimizations applied |
| 03:27.39 | MohammadAG | run the same de-optimizations in the de-compiler |
| 03:29.13 | jonwil | wishes cellular-qt was open or at least available on Fremantle |
| 03:29.20 | jonwil | looks like very comprehensive and useful library |
| 03:37.59 | jonwil | anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for? |
| 03:43.34 | MohammadAG | * jonwil has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))) |
| 03:43.37 | MohammadAG | wtf? |
| 03:48.41 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 03:53.46 | hiemanshu | Morning |
| 03:55.37 | DocScrutinizer | WUT? |
| 03:57.25 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: no kidding? |
| 03:58.28 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
| 03:58.33 | DocScrutinizer | anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for? |
| 03:58.43 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, not getting killed |
| 03:59.53 | DocScrutinizer | idoru: ? |
| 04:00.09 | DocScrutinizer | idoru: status |
| 04:00.20 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@adsl-74-179-198-23.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:02.01 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: PING |
| 04:23.07 | DocScrutinizer | friggin idiot bot |
| 04:25.15 | DocScrutinizer | ""anti spam bot"" according to freenode "staff" - allegedly they can do nothing and jonwil has to mail kline@freenode about it - MEH!!! BS! |
| 04:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder how this bot came here - pondering to kickban it |
| 04:27.26 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 04:28.10 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: is idoru an invited bot? |
| 04:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: Or shall it get kickbanned? |
| 04:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: I'm all for kickban |
| 04:30.56 | RST38h | Moo all |
| 04:32.05 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:32.49 | DocScrutinizer | obviously crossposting the line >>anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for?<< across two channels where idoru is in, during 2 min, is enough to get **klined** by freenode. |
| 04:33.43 | DocScrutinizer | I honestly think freenode starts going mad |
| 04:35.12 | doc|home | DocScrutinizer: you could try kick banning it, but staff have a capability to not have bans work on them (how nice) |
| 04:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | I'm rwluctant to do it as long as I'm not sure if chan-owner has invited it |
| 04:37.37 | *** join/#maemo fernando__ (~fernando@186.114.33.221) |
| 04:38.09 | DocScrutinizer | ""the bot may have false positives, but freenoe stuff doesn't discuss klines on IRC. Not by him and not by any third person like you speaking for him. He has to mail kline@freenode.bs"" PFFFFF |
| 04:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | and also ""reverse engineering with IDA is considered cyber terrorism"" - first I thought he's joking, but the dude rephrased it on a second post |
| 04:41.00 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder if somebody mixed psychotropic substances into my coffee |
| 04:41.17 | DocScrutinizer | this can't be real |
| 04:49.18 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: do you know about this friggin idoru bot? |
| 04:58.06 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 05:06.36 | *** join/#maemo Muelli (~muelli@port-91307.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 05:07.32 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen idoru |
| 05:07.38 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: i haven't seen 'idoru' |
| 05:07.47 | DocScrutinizer | thought as much |
| 05:10.07 | DocScrutinizer | damn, pissed and kick-happy |
| 05:10.18 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 05:10.23 | *** kick/#maemo [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 05:11.47 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 05:12.19 | DocScrutinizer | glares at idoru |
| 05:12.24 | DocScrutinizer | >:-( |
| 05:14.38 | DocScrutinizer | >>Support can be found at #pyfibot on irc.nerv.fi and please contact yllapito@nerv.fi if you want to connect outside of Finland << |
| 05:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | makes me wonder if that Finland part is mere incidence or... |
| 05:15.05 | hiemanshu | yeah, looking at the details |
| 05:15.26 | hiemanshu | idoru: leave #maemo |
| 05:15.37 | hiemanshu | idoru: ping |
| 05:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | that thing is deaf |
| 05:16.15 | DocScrutinizer | this alone would suffice to kickban it, usually |
| 05:16.25 | hiemanshu | PM is also a no-go |
| 05:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 05:16.31 | DocScrutinizer | same |
| 05:16.33 | DocScrutinizer | deaf |
| 05:16.54 | hiemanshu | is this a freenode bot? |
| 05:17.00 | DocScrutinizer | see cloak |
| 05:17.03 | DocScrutinizer | :-( |
| 05:17.33 | DocScrutinizer | sure, otherwise how could it trigger klining jonwil? |
| 05:17.41 | hiemanshu | right |
| 05:17.58 | hiemanshu | but why did it kline him? |
| 05:18.15 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-09 06:32:48] <DocScrutinizer> obviously crossposting the line >>anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for?<< across two channels where idoru is in, during 2 min, is enough to get **klined** by freenode. |
| 05:18.50 | hiemanshu | that no makes no fucking sense at all |
| 05:18.56 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 05:19.07 | DocScrutinizer | it's obvious though |
| 05:19.29 | DocScrutinizer | maybe he even x-poste to a third chan, like #qt or sth - still no sense in it |
| 05:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, just received a mail from him, he sent to #qt as well |
| 05:21.28 | DocScrutinizer | but that's no damn reason to kline *anybody* |
| 05:21.55 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I could create an account for him on my server so he can access IRC till it get sorted out |
| 05:22.04 | hiemanshu | quassel account |
| 05:22.25 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: I'll suggest it to him |
| 05:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | or better yet, as I guess he's reading IRC log, just post your contact |
| 05:23.01 | DocScrutinizer | >> <Gryllida>| DocScrutinizer: They'd have to email to see why it hppened. Klines are not discussed on IRC, or with "third" people. |
| 05:23.38 | hiemanshu | and are they even responsive about it? |
| 05:23.49 | DocScrutinizer | >> <Gryllida>| sometimes the bot has false positives, and sometimes it indeed is the person flooding or spamming, the persons affected have to email to klines@freenode.net instead of asking it here or having you ask it here for thtem |
| 05:24.16 | DocScrutinizer | this dude used "they" as if jonwil was a company |
| 05:25.03 | hiemanshu | *persons* |
| 05:26.37 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122383/ <-- full log of my convo |
| 05:28.25 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@122.151.89.181) |
| 05:29.06 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: well atleast they helped you get his email :P |
| 05:29.56 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I got a better email of him, but I didn't feel like helping Gryllida guy to turn me down |
| 05:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | btw upb isn't any staffer obviously, while gryllida has a very talking cloak but wasn'T voiced as staff is suppoesed to be in #freenode |
| 05:32.45 | *** join/#maemo Zahra (~Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax) |
| 05:33.28 | hiemanshu | so if I post something in 3 channels thats spamming, but if I post a huge ascii dragon, taht isnt spamming? |
| 05:35.11 | DocScrutinizer | if you post ascii grafix here, then you'll get kickbanned by *me* :-P |
| 05:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, while x-posting isn't exacly good style, it's not by any rule a reason to kick somebody |
| 05:37.13 | DocScrutinizer | I did that myself |
| 05:37.33 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I'll post it while you are sleeping, but that isn't the point, it just stupid to kline someone who x-posted in 3 chans, and just one sentence |
| 05:37.50 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 05:38.12 | DocScrutinizer | we should pester freenode staff to take down their apshit bot |
| 05:39.10 | hiemanshu | yeah, or atleast fix/tune it to reduce false positive |
| 05:39.13 | DocScrutinizer | I appreciate they do a hell of a job to keep freenode clean of all sorts of threats all the time - but that's ridiculous |
| 05:39.14 | hiemanshu | positives* |
| 05:40.41 | DocScrutinizer | alas I don't feel like continuing my convo with this gryllida guy/gal/whatever. Too weird |
| 05:41.34 | DocScrutinizer | I feel like killing this bot!!!! |
| 05:42.28 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: you're free to /join #freenode and continue where I stopped |
| 05:44.54 | ruskie | fun |
| 05:45.33 | DocScrutinizer | btw this Porcher identity also smelled botty, and when I suggested /kick pocher before I left #freenode, I got immediatey spammed with private query expletive - the type though been real, so it has to be a human with an intelect of a spam bot, or a spanbot with an almost human touch noticing even references with typos |
| 05:50.03 | DocScrutinizer | meh, false assumptions - o fcourse it's been a bot, of the type that spams everybody posting *anything* in the channel |
| 05:52.08 | Termana | Porcher can make you love him |
| 05:52.17 | DocScrutinizer | I bet |
| 05:52.36 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 05:53.06 | *** mode/#maemo [+b porcher*!*@*] by DocScrutinizer |
| 05:53.14 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 05:53.44 | DocScrutinizer | won't help, those bots change nick 5 times a second |
| 05:54.26 | DocScrutinizer | suggestons welcome, if anybody got an IP or sth |
| 05:58.08 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 05:58.08 | infobot | aw, gee, DocScrutinizer |
| 05:58.23 | DocScrutinizer | ~good bot |
| 05:58.23 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 05:59.34 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr|otg (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 06:00.23 | DocScrutinizer | meh! |
| 06:09.11 | Termana | /mode #maemo +b *!*@* |
| 06:09.14 | Termana | should do the trick |
| 06:09.16 | Termana | :p |
| 06:14.12 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 06:18.22 | DocScrutinizer | meh, freenode staffers are nice and reasonable people - the *real* stuffers |
| 06:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | everything fixed |
| 06:18.46 | DocScrutinizer | and jonwil should be un-klined |
| 06:19.38 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B367C9D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:20.21 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-09 08:13:11] <Plazma> DocScrutinizer, that was probably a mistake . youc an /msg me some details if you like |
| 06:23.57 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 06:24.09 | jonwil | good to be back |
| 06:24.23 | jonwil | and I know not to post in too many channels at once now |
| 06:24.35 | jonwil | so yeah I found another hidden gem in the depths of the internet |
| 06:24.36 | jonwil | https://build.opensuse.org/package/files?package=messaging-ui&project=home%3Achris_liu |
| 06:24.56 | jonwil | Its a source tarball for Harmattan QT messaging-ui version 0.0.38.2+0m6 |
| 06:25.04 | jonwil | something which I dont think is supposed to be out there |
| 06:25.24 | jonwil | quite interesting if you want to see some of how harmattan messaging works :) |
| 06:25.43 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, couldn't you say a word 5s earlier, would've saved me writing a mail to you ;-P |
| 06:26.05 | ruskie | you don't see joins? |
| 06:26.12 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 06:26.20 | DocScrutinizer | usually not |
| 06:27.24 | jonwil | I do wonder if there are any other hidden gems out there somewhere of code that shouldnt be public but is |
| 06:29.00 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 06:30.04 | jonwil | ok, fine then, dont comment on my latest find :P |
| 06:31.07 | DocScrutinizer | It looks quite nice :-) |
| 06:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder how you find those hidden easter eggs |
| 06:31.43 | jonwil | in this case it was googling for something else |
| 06:32.30 | DocScrutinizer | well, this time I first dl'ed it before it vanished :-) |
| 06:32.47 | jonwil | it hasnt gone |
| 06:33.29 | DocScrutinizer | yes, it's still there, but there were cases where javispedro was too late to dl a tarball that looked extremely promising |
| 06:33.43 | jonwil | yeah that one app manager one |
| 06:33.51 | DocScrutinizer | was a lesson for me :-) |
| 06:33.53 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@ip-89-102-182-204.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
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| 06:35.04 | jonwil | then of course there are the things you find but cant access |
| 06:35.16 | jonwil | like the closed-off git repo for libcellular-qt I found once |
| 06:36.05 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 06:36.31 | jonwil | I mean I found it but it was password protected |
| 06:36.38 | jonwil | so I couldn't get to it |
| 06:39.43 | jonwil | hmmm, interesting, at one point a lot of nokia closed binaries were at URLs like http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/b/bme/ rather than being in the nokia-binaries repo |
| 06:41.20 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@tmo-096-179.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 06:42.04 | jonwil | Currently using google cache to follow that tree and see just what was in it |
| 06:42.16 | jonwil | in case anything iteresting shows up for me to google for |
| 06:42.57 | jonwil | used to be a packaged called cellmo-rnd-headers_0.1.2011.08.3+0m6_all.deb in the repo by the looks of it |
| 06:43.16 | *** join/#maemo bugzy (~bugzy@adsl-99-99-144-62.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:47.15 | DocScrutinizer | http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/attachmentText?id=55848&aid=-4196978892536996110&name=dpkg.output&token=7cf8407d1a246a47278dd71297b47ac5 >>> ii cellmo-rnd-headers 0.1.2010.20.2 R&D ISI interface headers |
| 06:47.53 | DocScrutinizer | rnd == R&D |
| 06:49.57 | jonwil | yeah |
| 06:53.17 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:53.42 | *** join/#maemo ProfPutz (~ProfPutz@p54B2B0AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:54.32 | DocScrutinizer | actually http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=55848 is quite funny, as it seems some ppe guy was knee deep into developing phonet on his ubuntu box, and posted a full dpkg -l :-D |
| 06:55.36 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~kenneth@121.54.2.104) |
| 06:56.56 | Hurrian | finally found out what causes ubuntu 11.04 to explode on a chroot |
| 06:57.04 | Hurrian | thumb-2 |
| 06:58.10 | DocScrutinizer | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/c/cellmo-isi-headers/ 404 :-/ |
| 06:58.54 | dm8tbr | Hurrian: n900? |
| 06:59.12 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@adsl-74-179-25-237.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 07:00.10 | dm8tbr | because the OMAP3 SoC used in the N900 (34xx/35xx) has broken thumbs (pun intended) |
| 07:00.42 | jonwil | would LOVE to have csd-sms-dev, csd-plugin-dev, csd-sim-dev, csd-simpb-dev, libisi-dev, libisi-glib-dev, libphonet-dev, libsim-dev, libsimpb-dev, libsms-dev and libsms-utils-dev :) |
| 07:03.41 | jonwil | google shows no references for those packages other than that dpkg log and various irc logs |
| 07:03.46 | jonwil | i.e. nothing usefull :P |
| 07:04.57 | jonwil | so yeah just more pointers to stuff we need but cant have :P |
| 07:05.35 | Hurrian | dm8tbr , iirc thumb-1 execution is fixed |
| 07:05.44 | Hurrian | thumb-2 instruction set is MIA |
| 07:06.31 | dm8tbr | Hurrian: I'd need to dig my logs, but I think thumb2 sort of works, but you have a good chance to randomly run into one of two errata (depending which kernel fix you turn on) |
| 07:06.49 | *** join/#maemo maybeHere (cl@p5B165D1D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:07.12 | Hurrian | hmm, didn't know that the N900 was capable of thumb-2 |
| 07:07.38 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08A9B5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:08.03 | Hurrian | all i know is that the N900 can do thumb (errata patched) and thumb-ee (java env, useless to Maemo, mite b useful for NITDroid) |
| 07:10.39 | dm8tbr | meh I can't find the pages right know. I'm sure Stskeeps knows though. Ask him for clarification. |
| 07:10.55 | dm8tbr | I don't remember enough details for an authoritative clear answer |
| 07:13.01 | xkr47 | I love making phone calls with my maemo over ssh by copypasting the phone numbers from a web page on my desktop computer to the ssh terminal |
| 07:17.43 | jonwil | in any case I have run out of leads on possible hidden info |
| 07:18.07 | jonwil | Not that that messaging-ui source is all that great, it doesnt even match the Harmattan build that people seem to have on their N950s |
| 07:18.22 | jonwil | or at least the dpkg list given to me by someone a while back |
| 07:22.54 | frals | jonwil: ive not been keeping up, why do you need all these devpackags? |
| 07:23.08 | jonwil | I wasnt saying I need them, just that it would be nice to have them |
| 07:23.23 | jonwil | be nice to be able to dig deeper into the cell stack :P |
| 07:23.48 | frals | ok, so it wasnt for some particular reason except because its fun to see how stuff works? :) |
| 07:23.53 | DocScrutinizer | hah, a box with proper backbone is a nice thing - esp when nokia has a server with a proper network connection. wget -v diagnostic output bombs in at 20kB/s |
| 07:24.36 | DocScrutinizer | the autput has bizarre values like 450MB/s |
| 07:24.39 | jonwil | I think Nokia has learned and wont be uploading anything secret to the repos anytime soon |
| 07:26.39 | DocScrutinizer | api-refs/xml/ seems a monster pile of crap though |
| 07:27.35 | Hurrian | jonwil , uploadng seekrits to repos? |
| 07:28.08 | jonwil | There are instances in google cache of files that used to be in the harmattan repos |
| 07:28.11 | jonwil | but which are not there |
| 07:28.14 | jonwil | and which seem interesting |
| 07:28.41 | jonwil | like at one point a source tarball for package-manager was up there |
| 07:28.49 | jonwil | but is gone before anyone we know of grabbed it |
| 07:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | we should check the filesharing services |
| 07:32.06 | Hurrian | gimme filename. |
| 07:32.45 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil has, I can't recall off top of my head |
| 07:33.17 | jonwil | I searched for these interesting files on all the sharing sites I could find |
| 07:33.33 | jonwil | package-manager_0.26.2+0m6.tar.gz is the filename though |
| 07:33.36 | jonwil | of the big one |
| 07:33.45 | jonwil | the one that we saw and couldn't get |
| 07:34.14 | DocScrutinizer | wonders how long this mirroring of api-refs/xml/daily-docs.... meh finished |
| 07:34.20 | DocScrutinizer | Downloaded: 16698 files, 254M in 1m 51s (2.29 MB/s) |
| 07:35.26 | DocScrutinizer | 254M is really manageable |
| 07:39.20 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 07:41.52 | Hurrian | hmm, said file is 117MB |
| 07:41.59 | Hurrian | wonder how large all of harmattan is |
| 07:42.51 | Hurrian | hmm, it's gone |
| 07:42.55 | Hurrian | nokia cleaned up early |
| 07:43.16 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 07:44.47 | dmj726 | This is cool: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74746 |
| 07:45.09 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-190.telpol.net.pl) |
| 07:47.53 | *** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~robbiethe@71-34-223-199.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 07:48.48 | kerio | icebergs are cool |
| 07:50.07 | robbiethe1st | Well, they're certainly not /warm/. |
| 07:51.11 | dmj726 | hehe, seems to be a video editor thing running on the n900 |
| 07:51.49 | Hurrian | dmj726, looks like a web app |
| 07:52.16 | dmj726 | google Novacut |
| 07:52.35 | dmj726 | They say they're building their GUI in HTML5 |
| 07:52.55 | jonwil | so yeah still getting nowhere with cell broadcast sms |
| 07:53.18 | jonwil | Further reverse engineering of libcellular-qt didnt help, the cell stack has changed too much in Harmattan |
| 07:53.27 | jonwil | particularly the csd-net bit |
| 07:53.31 | robbiethe1st | jonwil: does our radio even recieve it? |
| 07:53.35 | jonwil | yep |
| 07:53.46 | jonwil | cell broadcast SMS works just fine with my patch to libsms.so |
| 07:53.55 | robbiethe1st | Alternately, could we simply grab the firmware/driver out of Harmattan and use that? |
| 07:53.56 | dmj726 | My guess is one of their devs decided to see if it'll run on the n900 at all :P |
| 07:54.06 | jonwil | But now I have to write a UI for it |
| 07:54.14 | jonwil | to do something useful |
| 07:54.19 | jonwil | and thats where I get stuck |
| 07:54.48 | jonwil | In order for the ideas I have for the UI to be possible, I need to figure out more about some of the dbus signals sent by csd-net |
| 07:54.54 | jonwil | I know the signals and what they look like |
| 07:55.00 | jonwil | What I am missing is info on when they get sent |
| 07:55.06 | jonwil | as in, what causes them to be sent |
| 07:55.29 | Hurrian | robbiethe1st : ...not the same radio, i guess |
| 07:55.58 | robbiethe1st | Hurrian: Really? hm, maby |
| 07:56.33 | dmj726 | cehteh: ^^ |
| 07:56.34 | Hurrian | i got BB5 errors while trying to run Harmattan on the N900 |
| 07:56.35 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 07:56.40 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@zux006-063-201.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:56.44 | dmj726 | morning Jaffa |
| 07:58.01 | Hurrian | with mtdswap, i get the feeling someone up at nokia doesnt want the new devices to last long |
| 07:59.12 | robbiethe1st | Hurrian: mtdswap... so it's using a pre-defined chunk of the on-chip flash for swap? |
| 07:59.15 | Hurrian | yes |
| 07:59.32 | Hurrian | mtd5 |
| 07:59.58 | robbiethe1st | Hm... does mtdswap deal with bad blocks at all? |
| 08:00.27 | Hurrian | idk |
| 08:01.18 | robbiethe1st | Well, if it does it won't be a problem - you'll just have a warn out section of mtd. The rest of the space won't be harmed, as there's no global block relocation algorithm, unlike, say, the eMMC. |
| 08:01.39 | Hurrian | anyways, a device with 1GB RAM shouldnt need to swap at all |
| 08:01.41 | robbiethe1st | If not, I see swap issues happening within a year, but it'll be fixable by moving the swap file elsewhere. |
| 08:01.49 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@187.113.166.15) |
| 08:01.49 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@unaffiliated/licensed) |
| 08:02.01 | Hurrian | anyways, if you're going to swap, make the physical swap device replaceable |
| 08:02.06 | Hurrian | like a dedicated uSD card |
| 08:03.07 | *** join/#maemo vdv (~vdv@ip-109-44-206-252.web.vodafone.de) |
| 08:03.13 | robbiethe1st | No, I disagree, Hurrian. It shouldn't need to swap much, but it should be there - Otherwise, like Android, you simply run into a hard limit. And if applications take more ram than they do on the N900, that could be a problem. Add some swap, now you've got extra capacity, and you can offload some junk to swap if it's not being used. |
| 08:03.22 | jonwil | anyone know what libbb5 is? |
| 08:03.42 | jonwil | seems to be security related |
| 08:03.47 | jonwil | and possibly important :) |
| 08:03.50 | Hurrian | >bb5 |
| 08:03.53 | Hurrian | sure is important |
| 08:04.16 | robbiethe1st | As far as replacable, yes, it's a good idea, but I haven't seen /many/ N900's with dead eMMCs from it, so it's probably not *that* bad. |
| 08:04.21 | Hurrian | robbiethe1st : ramzswap/compcache + kill allocating task on OOM should be enough for a mobile device |
| 08:04.32 | Hurrian | but point taken, emmcs havent died from swapping |
| 08:04.55 | Hurrian | rather, emmcs break from the solder balls breaking |
| 08:05.01 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (~hannes@80-121-112-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 08:05.03 | robbiethe1st | Yea, that makes sense |
| 08:05.41 | robbiethe1st | Well, see, I'd prefer to not have apps die if I want to run too many - things running slowly, and or a low-memory warning's better than having some random app die at a random time. |
| 08:05.42 | Hurrian | gurus, the N9/50 uses compcache/ramz right? |
| 08:06.09 | Hurrian | robbiethe1st: free -m should give you enough info ;) |
| 08:06.30 | robbiethe1st | Uh, yea, but noone's going to do that on the fly while working on the device. |
| 08:06.34 | Hurrian | hmm, a script to send a notification of low RAM when it falls under 20% combined physical and compressed |
| 08:06.50 | robbiethe1st | That'd be nice... |
| 08:07.34 | Hurrian | personally, i think the N9/50 would be the device where everything would run 24/7, unlike the N900 where my OCD kicks in and closes all the apps |
| 08:08.20 | Hurrian | oh, and i dont know why nokia would still put in a raw flash device |
| 08:08.33 | robbiethe1st | I think that's part of the CPU package... |
| 08:08.38 | Hurrian | everything on mtd1 can be stored on BB5 chip itself |
| 08:08.51 | Hurrian | robbiethe1st, MTD is literally on top of SOC |
| 08:08.57 | robbiethe1st | Yea. |
| 08:09.00 | dm8tbr | it's called PoP |
| 08:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: (N9/50 uses compcache/ramz) tell me how to check |
| 08:09.09 | robbiethe1st | So it's not like they could easily just, you know, remove it.. |
| 08:09.14 | dm8tbr | and you can get PoP with just RAM, not only RAM+NAND |
| 08:09.43 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : try using rzscontrol |
| 08:10.07 | Hurrian | or check /dev for ramzswap devices |
| 08:10.45 | DocScrutinizer | Example: rzscontrol /dev/ramzswap0 --init |
| 08:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | See rzscontrol manpage for details. |
| 08:10.50 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 08:11.01 | Hurrian | it runs on the N950? |
| 08:11.26 | robbiethe1st | well, I think the nand flash is quite a bit faster than eMMC or a SD card; it just requires that bad-block management be done in software. |
| 08:11.33 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# find /dev -name '*ramz*' |
| 08:11.34 | DocScrutinizer | /dev/ramzswap0 |
| 08:11.36 | DocScrutinizer | /dev/.udev/names/block\x2f254:0/\x2fdevices\x2fvirtual\x2fblock\x2framzswap0 |
| 08:11.37 | DocScrutinizer | /dev/.udev/names/ramzswap0 |
| 08:11.44 | Hurrian | ah, that's nice |
| 08:12.07 | DocScrutinizer | plus a few more |
| 08:12.16 | robbiethe1st | And, at least on the N900, the rootfs/NAND honestly worked a lot better than the eMMC - I've had the eMMC occasionally get corrupted; rootfs never. |
| 08:12.38 | DocScrutinizer | duh, I promised you... |
| 08:12.47 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF531C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:12.58 | robbiethe1st | (though, that being said, I *have* had the kernel get randomly corrupted, and that's also on raw NAND) |
| 08:12.59 | dmj726 | Will the new devices have better webm support? |
| 08:13.01 | Hurrian | robbiethe1st - which filesystem? |
| 08:13.04 | Hurrian | ext3? |
| 08:13.10 | robbiethe1st | Hurrian: Yes. |
| 08:13.18 | Hurrian | not surprising really |
| 08:13.23 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122388/ <- mounts |
| 08:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 08:14.14 | Hurrian | wonder how cool it would be if nokia used the money they saved on not buying a raw flash part to give us more RAM or make a larger profit margin |
| 08:14.35 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer : rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) |
| 08:14.45 | Hurrian | dev/root on / type ext4 (rw,noatime,errors=remount-ro,barrier=1,stripe=8,data=ordered) |
| 08:14.52 | Hurrian | what the f**k? |
| 08:16.07 | Hurrian | i mean, seriously? |
| 08:16.31 | robbiethe1st | Uh, yea... |
| 08:16.38 | Hurrian | same as in maemo 5 |
| 08:17.15 | dmj726 | Hurrian: Seems the novacut guys are making a video editor for ubuntu right now |
| 08:17.18 | Hurrian | i thought that nokia would adhere to standard fstab, with device nodes for non-pseudo-filesystems |
| 08:18.07 | Hurrian | oh well, i guess it's part of nolo hackery |
| 08:18.40 | *** join/#maemo onen|openBmap (~quassel@vbo91-5-88-186-17-64.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:19.00 | dmj726 | is probably just too excited after waiting like two years for a video editor to emerge for us |
| 08:20.04 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 08:20.24 | DocScrutinizer | a real video editor? \o/ |
| 08:20.46 | dmj726 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74746 |
| 08:20.57 | dm8tbr | dmj726: so far I've only heard about webm for omap4 from TI. dunno. |
| 08:22.17 | robbiethe1st | dm8tbr: We *do* have libvp8 if that's what you mean. it will play webm files, provided you have ogg support, on the N900 |
| 08:22.51 | dmj726 | robbiethe1st: I just know that webm only works in ff mobile and not microb |
| 08:23.22 | robbiethe1st | Oh. |
| 08:23.27 | Hurrian | ah, microb |
| 08:23.44 | dm8tbr | robbiethe1st: I meant to imply IVA/DSP |
| 08:23.55 | Hurrian | time to request a new microb from cssu |
| 08:24.03 | dmj726 | yeah, DSP support for webm would be very nice |
| 08:24.10 | dm8tbr | TI has it |
| 08:24.35 | dm8tbr | probably even for OMAP3, but they might not release it. dunno what the current situation is |
| 08:24.38 | robbiethe1st | Hm, speaking of which... couldn't we throw the Fennec back-end behind microb and get the best of both worlds? |
| 08:25.22 | dm8tbr | I thought both use gecko as the engine... |
| 08:25.24 | robbiethe1st | apparently it would mainly recall copying the appropriate MicroB bits and changing some links; we'd need the old backend for other stuff that uses it. |
| 08:26.15 | robbiethe1st | They do. I think MicroB actually uses xulrunner somehow behind the scenes; it's basically just an optimized version of Firefox with a better frontend. AFAIK |
| 08:26.37 | DocScrutinizer | moin dm8tbr |
| 08:26.41 | Hurrian | hmm, people are saying On2 (now google's) had a DSP accelerated codec |
| 08:27.16 | dm8tbr | moin DoktorPruefer :) |
| 08:27.20 | dmj726 | yeah, microb is good for when sites need user interaction |
| 08:27.31 | DocScrutinizer | DokumetPruefer ;-) |
| 08:27.40 | dm8tbr | ah :) |
| 08:27.45 | Hurrian | robbiethe1st : isnt XULRunner notably absent in MicroB? |
| 08:27.59 | dm8tbr | Hurrian: yes, and I heard it sucked, but dunno if google took it further |
| 08:28.03 | robbiethe1st | I've no clue... but I haven't looked internally |
| 08:28.13 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 08:29.13 | DocScrutinizer | just realized I mirrored the frontpage of http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ but not http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool :-P |
| 08:30.09 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder what else they got hidden under *.nokia.com/*/* |
| 08:32.15 | Hurrian | getting a recent Gecko to work on microb would be great |
| 08:32.52 | Hurrian | then again, what exactly constitutes microb-engine? |
| 08:33.03 | dmj726 | I wish I knew |
| 08:33.04 | Hurrian | it's the web browser engine, which is Gecko |
| 08:33.13 | Hurrian | but who knows what else it provides? |
| 08:34.08 | Hurrian | ...other than being the thing that displays messages in Conversations |
| 08:34.37 | dmj726 | wait, really? |
| 08:34.55 | dmj726 | Is everything a browser front end these days? |
| 08:35.01 | robbiethe1st | ...Yes. |
| 08:35.06 | ruskie | sad |
| 08:35.24 | robbiethe1st | Actually, it's generally a good thing. Makes editing/displaying stuff easy. |
| 08:35.31 | dmj726 | Even the video editors are jumping on HTML for the gui |
| 08:35.33 | ruskie | it's generally a sad thing |
| 08:35.45 | robbiethe1st | But it makes it more hackable! |
| 08:35.53 | dmj726 | Well, if the GUI works well... |
| 08:35.56 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@host86-131-76-137.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:36.05 | Hurrian | hmm, the microb garage page looks like it hasn't been touched in a VERY long time |
| 08:36.12 | ruskie | considering most renderers are heavy any tend to have issues even with the best markup... |
| 08:36.16 | ruskie | it's sad |
| 08:37.14 | Hurrian | hmm, let's try to build this |
| 08:37.57 | robbiethe1st | Well, we spend 90+% of our daily existance on the web, so why not use the same technology elsewhere? And, in this case, the browser's already running in the background, so... |
| 08:38.28 | ruskie | really??? we do??? |
| 08:39.22 | dmj726 | Yep, turns out the real world is just a Matrix running in IE6. That's why things break so much |
| 08:39.46 | robbiethe1st | Well, replace that with daily *online* existance in a web browser. |
| 08:39.57 | robbiethe1st | I'm still somewhat asleep - took a nap recently |
| 08:40.16 | ruskie | I still don't spend much of my online existance in a web browser |
| 08:40.26 | ruskie | it's probably more like 10% |
| 08:41.00 | robbiethe1st | erm, what do you *do* online then? |
| 08:41.26 | DocScrutinizer | IRC!!! |
| 08:41.27 | ruskie | irc, email, ssh and such like things... none of which involve using a browser |
| 08:41.41 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 08:41.44 | ruskie | irc is a huge timesink online |
| 08:42.07 | robbiethe1st | Well, yes, but erm... I at least *always* have my browser running, whether I'm messing with it or not |
| 08:42.21 | *** join/#maemo onen|openBmap_ (~quassel@vbo91-5-88-186-17-64.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:42.22 | robbiethe1st | and well, if it's running, the libraries are loaded anyway |
| 08:42.43 | Hurrian | i sure as hell hope i dont have to download the entire Mozilla hg repo all over again, once more for the fifth time |
| 08:42.52 | ruskie | Hurrian, make a copy ;) |
| 08:42.59 | ruskie | and you won't need to redo it ;) |
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| 08:43.28 | DocScrutinizer | meh, that's insane: -rw-rw-r-- 1 jr jr 5954080 Jul 9 10:42 wget-log |
| 08:44.03 | DocScrutinizer | shouldn't have omitted -nv, despite the -b |
| 08:44.35 | dmj726 | DocScrutinizer: You been looking for a video editor for a long time too? |
| 08:44.43 | DocScrutinizer | now I get ~100lines per file, like *****.............................28% |
| 08:45.30 | DocScrutinizer | dmj726: I always thought video cam and sharing is a nonsense without any at least trimming tool |
| 08:45.41 | dmj726 | yeah, same here |
| 08:45.56 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.50) |
| 08:45.58 | dmj726 | that's what got me excited by that video |
| 08:46.57 | DocScrutinizer | also, thanks to the stupid cam app, you need a concatenator to join snipets into one |
| 08:47.26 | dmj726 | snippets? |
| 08:47.41 | dmj726 | you mean like each clip? |
| 08:47.46 | DocScrutinizer | 10s shots, taken on same location |
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| 08:48.07 | DocScrutinizer | the cam has no pause |
| 08:48.18 | dmj726 | so basically you need to be able to trim individual clips and join them in a sequence? |
| 08:48.31 | DocScrutinizer | just "start" and "stop&save" |
| 08:48.42 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 08:49.23 | alterego | woof |
| 08:49.26 | dmj726 | hmm...I've been reading some of the Novacut stuff and that's exactly what they're trying to do on the desktop initially |
| 08:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | though honestly I'd even prefer to have as well a cam that allows pausing |
| 08:50.11 | DocScrutinizer | prolly never will see such a critter, thanks to friggin mafw |
| 08:50.27 | dmj726 | mafw? |
| 08:50.29 | DocScrutinizer | same problem like with gapless mp3-playback, I guess |
| 08:51.00 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I gather the a == audio |
| 08:51.32 | alterego | mafw isn't used for recording. |
| 08:51.37 | DocScrutinizer | but I bet camera-ui also is using a similar non-pause'able backend |
| 08:51.46 | alterego | gstreamer |
| 08:51.48 | alterego | Yes |
| 08:51.52 | DocScrutinizer | prolly gstreamer |
| 08:52.12 | alterego | Which is pausable, I don't know why they don't have the ability to pause, it pisses me off :/ |
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| 08:52.31 | dmj726 | DocScrutinizer: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/rethinking-video-editing-with-novacut/ |
| 08:52.32 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I deprecate all those backends |
| 08:53.07 | DocScrutinizer | if you want it done properly, do it yourself (the mantra for the app, whatever it is, cam-ui or mediaplayer) |
| 08:54.09 | alterego | Seemless playback is also possible, it's just tricky, and I'm not sure the pipeline that mafw uses (i think just playbin2), it can't do it, so :/ |
| 08:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | dmj726: LART that site, a cookie every 5s |
| 08:55.51 | alterego | I feel like something has crawled into my brain and died. |
| 08:55.54 | DocScrutinizer | I can't read with all the ESC hitting |
| 08:56.05 | dmj726 | esc hitting? |
| 08:56.30 | DocScrutinizer | dmj726: I'm not indiscriminately acepting all sorts of cookies |
| 08:56.44 | dmj726 | ah, you have it ask you on each one |
| 08:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and that friggin site sends a new one EVERY FIVE SECONDS |
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| 08:58.08 | alterego | Nice |
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| 09:00.28 | dmj726 | http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/NovacutSliceSequence-500x375.png |
| 09:00.42 | DocScrutinizer | now that I decided to bloat my negative-list file and "reject-all", it obviously runs in circles and doesn't let me post a "fix your f*ckng coockie nagging!" comment, instead there's a "please wait..." in the comment box :-( |
| 09:01.38 | Hurrian | alterego, apparently mafw just drops the pulse pipe |
| 09:02.03 | alterego | Hurrian: it drops the gst pipeline |
| 09:02.24 | alterego | pulse is beside the point tbh |
| 09:02.39 | ProfPutz | Pulse has problems |
| 09:02.58 | ProfPutz | Rst can explain |
| 09:03.22 | Hurrian | http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-base-plugins/html/gst-plugins-base-plugins-playbin2.html#GstPlayBin2--uri |
| 09:03.27 | Hurrian | this looks interesting |
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| 09:18.37 | *** join/#maemo [DarkGUNMAN] (~DarkGUNMA@212.183.128.46) |
| 09:18.52 | dmj726 | Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74746 |
| 09:19.10 | dmj726 | seems perhaps MWNworthy |
| 09:19.17 | [DarkGUNMAN] | morning all |
| 09:19.38 | [DarkGUNMAN] | does anyone have a working build environment on thieir n900? |
| 09:19.53 | ruskie | why? |
| 09:19.54 | dmj726 | I tend to use python |
| 09:20.17 | Hurrian | DarkGUNMAN : easy debian with build-essential |
| 09:21.04 | [DarkGUNMAN] | I'm trying to compile curlftpfs but I'm missing fuse - using n900sdk chroot image |
| 09:21.11 | Hurrian | ah |
| 09:21.14 | Hurrian | fuse.... |
| 09:21.51 | ruskie | should be buildable with scratchbox |
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| 09:22.10 | Noobmonk3y_ | morning alls |
| 09:22.27 | [DarkGUNMAN] | according to the output i'm also missing diff |
| 09:23.08 | Noobmonk3y_ | Random ubuntu questions... Why does wireless take soooo long to connect? and is battery management generally bad? as it says i have 1hr 50 left on a full battery, yet dual boot back into Windows 7 and i have 3 hrs 58 |
| 09:23.16 | [DarkGUNMAN] | hurrian: is build-essential for easydebian an add-on in synaptic |
| 09:23.21 | [DarkGUNMAN] | ? |
| 09:23.26 | ruskie | Noobmonk3y_, tried in #ubuntu? |
| 09:23.28 | *** join/#maemo Patina (~tomas@1385158770.dhcp.dbnet.dk) |
| 09:23.35 | Noobmonk3y_ | ruskie, that would just be sensible ;) |
| 09:24.04 | Noobmonk3y_ | bahhh that room doesnt exist on freenode :P |
| 09:24.10 | Noobmonk3y_ | oh lol ? at end |
| 09:24.11 | Noobmonk3y_ | lol |
| 09:24.13 | robbiethe1st | Noobmonk3y_: Battery life calculations are iffy at best |
| 09:24.19 | robbiethe1st | On *any* system |
| 09:25.04 | Noobmonk3y_ | true |
| 09:25.06 | robbiethe1st | Windows, IMHO, tends to over-report it: it may report it accurately sometimes, but it usually only reports it accurately if you aren't doing anything |
| 09:25.09 | Noobmonk3y_ | but big difference |
| 09:25.14 | robbiethe1st | or have a stable workload |
| 09:25.40 | robbiethe1st | Well, that's literally the difference between the cpu at full tilt and it idling, or the screen at max vs min... |
| 09:25.54 | robbiethe1st | and ubuntu may under-report it |
| 09:26.38 | Hurrian | Noobmonk3y_ using ubuntu 11.04? |
| 09:26.42 | Noobmonk3y_ | yeah |
| 09:26.51 | Hurrian | power regression |
| 09:26.52 | Noobmonk3y_ | without that unity rubbish :) |
| 09:26.56 | Noobmonk3y_ | ooo regression?! |
| 09:27.13 | Hurrian | again there's a power regression in 2.6.38 which ships with ubuntu 11.04 |
| 09:27.20 | Noobmonk3y_ | cool that makes sense :) |
| 09:27.29 | Noobmonk3y_ | thank you :) |
| 09:27.37 | Noobmonk3y_ | hense my total lack of understanding linux :) |
| 09:27.40 | Hurrian | wait for 3.0.0, it's fixed there |
| 09:27.51 | Noobmonk3y_ | lol that sounds a looong way away |
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| 09:28.29 | Hurrian | a few weeks from now ;) |
| 09:28.34 | Noobmonk3y_ | cool |
| 09:28.51 | Hurrian | speaking of 3.0.0, i better ask if meego CE's going to get it |
| 09:28.59 | Noobmonk3y_ | lol |
| 09:33.10 | [DarkGUNMAN] | hurrian: what do i need to do to get build-essentials insgtalled on easydebian? |
| 09:34.01 | [DarkGUNMAN] | sorry if this is simple stuff but i'm on a steep learning curve today! :) |
| 09:34.08 | dm8tbr | Hurrian: yes, it is |
| 09:34.25 | dm8tbr | Hurrian: it boots into UX but IIRC PM is still missing |
| 09:34.45 | dm8tbr | Hurrian: sources should be somewhere public now |
| 09:35.09 | Hurrian | DarkGUNMAN : apt-get install build-essential |
| 09:35.16 | dm8tbr | (n900), dunno about the n9(|50) |
| 09:35.21 | Hurrian | after that, install any additional dep libs |
| 09:35.38 | [DarkGUNMAN] | cheers :) |
| 09:35.55 | Hurrian | dm8tbr, i'm guessing it must be a pain to reapply every single patch to 2.6.37, no? |
| 09:37.29 | dm8tbr | Hurrian: kimju mentioned something about pain, yes. although he did an awesome job of untangling everything for the n900 and 2.6.37 |
| 09:37.42 | Hurrian | ah |
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| 09:38.50 | dm8tbr | let's just hope that there will be a few people willing to do kernel work for n9(|00|50) after nokia stops |
| 09:39.50 | DocScrutinizer | so what's pkg-management on harmattan? |
| 09:39.51 | psycho_oreos | I don't know about N950 but I know N900 may suffer the same fate as those in 770,N8{0,1}0 :) |
| 09:40.15 | dmj726 | which is too bad as n900 is a great device |
| 09:40.18 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, as in no one wants to work on it anymore? |
| 09:40.30 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer , DEB |
| 09:40.45 | Hurrian | hopefully, this time no more apt-worker |
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| 09:40.58 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, that and the fact that device ages over time which deteriorates the overall amount of maemo fans alike :) |
| 09:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | e.g. I want to get bash, it's in http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/ |
| 09:41.20 | DocScrutinizer | I know I *could* dl the .deb |
| 09:41.46 | DocScrutinizer | and install with dpkg, I *hope* |
| 09:42.03 | DocScrutinizer | modulo aegis shouting at me |
| 09:42.08 | psycho_oreos | for starters, N900 comes with a faulty mUSB port, those affected would no doubt be left out being able to develop further with N900. Then there are those of us hoping that our mUSB port would last and nothing else could become faulty over the life of the ARM powered device :) |
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| 09:42.42 | Hurrian | wait, aegis shouts at you for dpkg -i'ing debs? |
| 09:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 09:42.56 | dmj726 | unfortunately there really isn't anything close to the n900 as a replacement |
| 09:42.58 | Hurrian | ah |
| 09:42.59 | DocScrutinizer | quite possible |
| 09:43.09 | Hurrian | dmj726 , true |
| 09:43.30 | dmj726 | kinda sorta the n950 but I'm under the impression those aren't exactly easy to come by |
| 09:43.44 | Hurrian | in before we all have to put together gumstix-based phones |
| 09:44.04 | dmj726 | android devices are right out as is the n9 |
| 09:44.18 | dmj726 | maybe some random chinese company will step up to the plate |
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| 09:44.35 | psycho_oreos | dmj726, that's also true but inevitably these devices do come with a limited lifespan, so with the limited amount of fans dedicating themselves to maintaining the maemo framework. It'll be a matter of time before the inevitable becomes the unfortunate as N900's predecessors have faced |
| 09:44.35 | Hurrian | dmj726 , i need a device with QUALITY |
| 09:44.42 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 09:45.00 | Hurrian | and with the NIT track record, the future looks bleak for the N900 |
| 09:45.04 | dmj726 | I'm not saying I think that's a good option |
| 09:45.08 | dmj726 | yeah... |
| 09:45.13 | *** part/#maemo Evanescence (~Administr@122.237.22.247) |
| 09:45.23 | Hurrian | and for the N9, it's a dead end |
| 09:45.28 | Hurrian | and i want a keyboard! |
| 09:45.31 | dmj726 | without a keyboard |
| 09:45.40 | Hurrian | xterm is rubbish with an OSK |
| 09:45.43 | robbiethe1st | Well, buy a couple N900s |
| 09:45.49 | robbiethe1st | and keep em for a couple of years |
| 09:45.53 | dmj726 | I'd probably be okay with a keyboardless device with two or more screens |
| 09:46.13 | psycho_oreos | and forget about 1GB CPU, a/b/g/n wifi, 512MB of physical RAM? :) |
| 09:46.14 | Hurrian | dmj726 the only double-screened devices out are Android based |
| 09:46.16 | dmj726 | but not a single screen device |
| 09:46.17 | robbiethe1st | Hopefully by then we'll have a good Android device with unlocked bootloader and good alternate OS - Meego or Kubuntu Mobile |
| 09:46.54 | dmj726 | Hopefully by then phones will come with the option of OSes |
| 09:47.00 | psycho_oreos | nexus S and nexus S+? (I think) has unlocked bootloaders |
| 09:47.22 | dmj726 | It's not like it's hard to port drivers from android to meego |
| 09:47.26 | robbiethe1st | dmj, that'll never happen. But someone will do it, especially if Meego gets going |
| 09:47.37 | robbiethe1st | it'll never happen /from the factory/ really |
| 09:47.58 | dmj726 | They might call them different models :P |
| 09:48.01 | psycho_oreos | too much paperwork and hassle for them when all they care about is WP7 honestly |
| 09:48.16 | Hurrian | hmm, it'll be a huge PITA to manufacture devices should we run out of N900s |
| 09:48.23 | dmj726 | WP7 is never going in my pocket |
| 09:48.35 | Hurrian | option 1 - modify openmoko GTA04 |
| 09:48.49 | Hurrian | option 2 - modify OpenPandora |
| 09:49.03 | psycho_oreos | the day when Nokia stops producing meego devices will be the end of my interest with Nokia |
| 09:49.12 | dmj726 | Okay, unless M$ ports WP7 to debian enables multitasking and GPLs the whole thing |
| 09:49.27 | dmj726 | psycho_oreos: agreed |
| 09:49.27 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, what about WebOS? |
| 09:49.30 | Hurrian | option 3 - LEGOPHONE! |
| 09:49.45 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos , isnt it 95% closed? |
| 09:49.56 | jonwil | If it had an unlocked bootloader and software, the Motorola Milestone 3 would be a good option |
| 09:49.58 | psycho_oreos | dmj726, its sad they've literally cripped N950 and N9 in their own distinct ways |
| 09:50.11 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos ++ |
| 09:50.12 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, well if you have a look at android I guess its more or less the same no? ;) |
| 09:50.30 | Hurrian | psycho_oreos, on Android, you can at least port the OS |
| 09:50.49 | Hurrian | WebOS -> it's like everything's hosted on nokia-binaries! |
| 09:50.57 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, though there's people getting WebOS games to work with N900. The name of the app escapes me |
| 09:51.04 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 09:51.05 | Hurrian | preenv? |
| 09:51.10 | psycho_oreos | yep |
| 09:51.16 | Hurrian | that's because SDL |
| 09:51.32 | Hurrian | other than that, NO RECOMPILING FOR OTHER PLATFORMS FOR U |
| 09:51.55 | Hurrian | also, still no landscape phone |
| 09:52.10 | Hurrian | i hate blackberries for that reason |
| 09:52.12 | psycho_oreos | though admittedly WebOS will continue to roll on, much like android as it is nowadays. Openmoko hasn't been releasing any new devices and OpenPandora is still filling orders in for their own little gaming device (the last I checked, OpenPandora's device were closely matched to that of Nokia N900) |
| 09:52.45 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, true and yes I hate blackberries for a few other reasons as well |
| 09:52.49 | jonwil | Running MeeGo on most Android handsets will be hard because of closed blobs for cell modem, WiFi, GPU etc |
| 09:53.18 | Hurrian | damn, why the hell are gumstix LCD kits very low res? |
| 09:53.34 | Hurrian | no way am i going back to a phone of that res |
| 09:53.46 | psycho_oreos | though ironically the original plan of MeeGo was to open as much as they could. Or is that just another lie Nokia decided to mock us up with? yet again Meego = Maemo's ideals under that fluff? :) |
| 09:54.30 | Hurrian | heh |
| 09:54.42 | robbiethe1st | ...OK, WTF. I'm trying to upload a package with the extras assistant, only to get "file upload error" |
| 09:54.49 | jonwil | as for the MicroB discussion from earlier (seen from the chat logs), I think the answer is to identify the closed bits of MicroB and their purpose |
| 09:54.50 | robbiethe1st | anyone else have that problem? |
| 09:54.52 | jonwil | and then to rewrite them |
| 09:55.04 | Hurrian | meego has largely bombed in the market, everyone's using Android even on x86 |
| 09:55.05 | psycho_oreos | in the very least I guess the UI framework will probably be remain free, if not hacked open so those who switch to android or <insert your new device> could find some similar home when installing the theme ;) |
| 09:55.22 | Hurrian | jonwil, you can start with the browser UI |
| 09:55.39 | Hurrian | i think nokia should've continued straight on with Maemo |
| 09:56.46 | psycho_oreos | they could have done lots of things had it not been maemo CTO and what not leaving the company |
| 09:58.18 | Hurrian | you know, like release Step 5 in 2010 |
| 09:58.50 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 09:59.02 | Khertan | whao ... my n900 is now in little piece :) |
| 09:59.18 | Hurrian | right now, the N9 is too late for the party |
| 09:59.32 | Hurrian | no other nokia device will have a swipe UI - WP7 disallows it |
| 09:59.51 | Khertan | the board accumulator seems rusted |
| 10:00.21 | Khertan | someone know if n900 boot without it ? i think it ll be better to remove it before it s collapse |
| 10:00.38 | jonwil | The trick is to figure out which bits need to be rewritten, which bits we can ignore and which bits we don't need to rewrite but do need to find out how to talk to |
| 10:00.40 | Hurrian | Khertan , the USB port broke off? |
| 10:00.47 | Khertan | Hurrian, yep :) |
| 10:00.55 | Khertan | Hurrian, i m trying to repair it |
| 10:00.55 | Hurrian | yes, it works fine without it |
| 10:00.59 | Khertan | thx |
| 10:01.04 | Hurrian | except that you need to use a desktop charger |
| 10:01.10 | Hurrian | and you need to scp files to the phone |
| 10:01.32 | Khertan | not the usb port, the little accumulator on the main board |
| 10:01.49 | Khertan | the one use for keeping time date when sweeping battery |
| 10:01.56 | Hurrian | ah |
| 10:01.59 | Khertan | it s seems rusted |
| 10:02.06 | Khertan | so i m asking if i can remove it |
| 10:02.27 | Hurrian | the RTC? ask robbiethe1st on how to replace it |
| 10:02.30 | Khertan | i ll try to fix the usb port by soldering it ... would be difficult due to the size |
| 10:03.14 | psycho_oreos | there was a thread on t.m.o. on fixing the mUSB port the `man's way' have you tried that? :) |
| 10:03.24 | robbiethe1st | Remove the clock battery? Yes, you can do it without adverse affects - aside from no clock with the main battery removed |
| 10:03.26 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD29A21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:03.27 | Hurrian | jonwil , the browser UI is closed, microb-engine is open but very old |
| 10:03.46 | robbiethe1st | Replacing it's slightly more difficult; DocScrutinizer knows the exact supercapacitor to replace it with. |
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| 10:04.48 | dmj726 | Hurrian: Means it would probably be entirely possible to update microb-engine |
| 10:04.57 | *** join/#maemo maybeWTF (~cl@p5B165D1D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:05.05 | jonwil | as for an "open" phone, I think a possible option would be Motorola Milestone 2/3 if Motorola follows through on its policy of shipping unlocked bootloaders |
| 10:05.05 | Hurrian | yes, but someone needs to disable xulrunner |
| 10:05.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R |
| 10:05.43 | Khertan | robbiethe1st, it s already the case for the clock battery, as battery is dead ... but battery start collapsing to avoid collateral damage i think it ll be better to remove it :) |
| 10:05.50 | robbiethe1st | Yes. |
| 10:05.56 | Khertan | robbiethe1st, thx |
| 10:06.06 | robbiethe1st | I'd remove it, order the $5 replacement part, and later install it |
| 10:06.16 | robbiethe1st | cause, you know, having the RTC going is handy... |
| 10:06.20 | Hurrian | hmm, so the last nokia device i'll buy would either be a N9 or N950, and the latter would only be if they're sold on TMO ;) |
| 10:06.41 | Hurrian | after that, it's android |
| 10:07.04 | robbiethe1st | Just.... be careful when removing the + pin. I managed to break off the pad, and that's one pin that's really hard to replace - the only other connection is on the other side of the board, on a tiny resistor... |
| 10:07.22 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: FORGET this hoax of that arab terrorist troll about "fixing USB" |
| 10:07.32 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, :o |
| 10:07.41 | Hurrian | for some reason, the HTC HD2 is the only phone that got decent adaptation of alien OSes |
| 10:07.42 | dmj726 | Problem is I have very little interest in android |
| 10:08.01 | Hurrian | other than that, missing drivers everywhere |
| 10:08.32 | dmj726 | so it's basically just waiting for a good meego device or hoping android will become more like Ubuntu somehow |
| 10:08.34 | psycho_oreos | supposedly HTC has got very good documentation on its hardware but apart from that I wouldn't know |
| 10:09.15 | Hurrian | where the hell is the phone with easily replaceable OSes? |
| 10:09.41 | Hurrian | where is the phone with fully swappable storage? |
| 10:09.43 | dmj726 | Or hoping *somehow* all the gas particles in the room fly to one half of the room due to probability and Ubuntu becomes fantastic preinstalled OS on smartphones |
| 10:10.25 | *** join/#maemo udovdh_ (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 10:10.41 | Khertan | robbiethe1st, ouch ... the accu is soldered ... |
| 10:10.42 | Khertan | grr |
| 10:10.52 | *** join/#maemo deimos (~deimos@host40-68-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:11.05 | robbiethe1st | Yes. I know |
| 10:11.25 | robbiethe1st | It took a bit of magnet wire, over an hour, and quite a bit of fussing. |
| 10:11.26 | DocScrutinizer | dmj726: I prefer the idea that your pot melts while the water inside is freezing, due to same effect |
| 10:11.29 | *** join/#maemo maybeWTF (~cl@p5B165D1D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:11.42 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:11.57 | dmj726 | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that one's good |
| 10:13.00 | DocScrutinizer | Khertan: unsoldering the button cell is extremely easy... with TWO 30W soldering irons |
| 10:13.33 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~mc_teo@178.167.237.199.threembb.ie) |
| 10:13.33 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~mc_teo@unaffiliated/mcteo) |
| 10:13.34 | robbiethe1st | Ok, guys, can someone help me? I'm trying to use scp to upload to extras-devel, and I keep getting "Permission denied (publickey).". What am I doing wrong? |
| 10:14.21 | psycho_oreos | use sshfs ;) |
| 10:14.29 | psycho_oreos | probably wrong pass |
| 10:15.06 | DocScrutinizer | Khertan: OR you use a piece of not too thin aluminium (not exactly foil off the roll), and push this between batery contact and pad gently when solder is molten |
| 10:15.29 | DocScrutinizer | or use paper if you find a good one |
| 10:15.32 | *** join/#maemo buntfalke (~nobody@unaffiliated/buntfalke) |
| 10:16.00 | robbiethe1st | Well, I mean, I'm following the key-based instructions here http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras-devel#Setting_up_SSH_to_upload_to_extras |
| 10:16.05 | DocScrutinizer | just make sure you're not bending up the battery on one end while other end is still soldered |
| 10:16.09 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 10:16.33 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 10:16.57 | DocScrutinizer | ok, c'mon, where's "HAM" in harmattan? |
| 10:17.10 | Khertan | battery removed |
| 10:17.12 | Khertan | ouf |
| 10:17.21 | Khertan | now usb part |
| 10:17.31 | DocScrutinizer | eh??? |
| 10:17.41 | DocScrutinizer | *remove* USB? |
| 10:18.08 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, your superglue abomination |
| 10:18.36 | psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, to be honest I wouldn't have a clue :| |
| 10:19.14 | robbiethe1st | Darnit, I'm just trying to get a package uploaded. |
| 10:19.22 | DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: you inserted wrong ssh key to the webpage there |
| 10:19.47 | MohammadAG | morning |
| 10:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | moo moh |
| 10:20.10 | Hurrian | remove superglue? |
| 10:20.14 | Hurrian | uhh, acetone? |
| 10:20.17 | robbiethe1st | DocScrutinizer: I assume so, but I just generated another key, cat'd the .pub file, copied, pasted into textbox |
| 10:20.21 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: how do I install "apps" on harm? |
| 10:20.31 | robbiethe1st | I then ran the scp line with -i /path/to/privkey |
| 10:20.47 | robbiethe1st | and no luck. I can't figure it out |
| 10:20.50 | DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: you must cut the end or sth like that |
| 10:20.57 | *** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-058-093.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 10:21.11 | DocScrutinizer | or head? can't remember, look at it and you'll see it |
| 10:22.22 | DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: and *obviously* you need to "upload" the matching pubkey for your new private key |
| 10:22.34 | robbiethe1st | I did that, I'm pretty darn sure |
| 10:23.03 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: ice spray |
| 10:23.08 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 10:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | or heat |
| 10:23.11 | DocScrutinizer | or both |
| 10:23.26 | DocScrutinizer | the device won't like to get swamped with acetone |
| 10:23.58 | DocScrutinizer | will definitely ruin parts |
| 10:24.22 | DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: you need to trim it first, then "upload" |
| 10:24.35 | robbiethe1st | trim it? |
| 10:24.49 | DocScrutinizer | cat publickey_rsa |
| 10:24.54 | DocScrutinizer | you'll see it |
| 10:25.15 | DocScrutinizer | look closely, there's a leading (or trailing) machine id or sth |
| 10:25.41 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:25.46 | robbiethe1st | Yes. that's not supposed to be there? |
| 10:25.56 | robbiethe1st | what about the ssh-rsa bit at the beginning? |
| 10:26.05 | DocScrutinizer | kaeciubuieiuerialbcaljhdg:HOSTNAME |
| 10:26.30 | DocScrutinizer | try it, I cloudily recall you have to trim it |
| 10:26.53 | robbiethe1st | I have "ssh-rsa(space)*base64 data*(space)user@hostname" |
| 10:27.20 | DocScrutinizer | user@hostname HAS to go AFAIK |
| 10:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | not sure about the header |
| 10:28.30 | DocScrutinizer | I could look what mine looks like, IF i could recall what's been the webpage URL |
| 10:30.31 | robbiethe1st | https://garage.maemo.org/account/index.php |
| 10:31.13 | robbiethe1st | and can you check if you can login to the build server yourself? Seeing as the extras-assistant's not working, it could be a server issue or something |
| 10:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAAEBAP8Bo+QhQ3s1qaC6AyzC |
| 10:31.40 | DocScrutinizer | .... |
| 10:32.09 | robbiethe1st | Hm... ssh-dss eh? |
| 10:32.36 | DocScrutinizer | my flavour of key |
| 10:32.49 | DocScrutinizer | ssh-rsa will work as well I guess |
| 10:33.36 | Khertan | <DocScrutinizer> ooh, your superglue abomination <<< ? |
| 10:33.38 | robbiethe1st | Just trying to eliminate possible errors |
| 10:33.54 | robbiethe1st | Can you try logging in yourself? I'm still getting the error |
| 10:33.57 | Khertan | DocScrutinizer, usb was broken |
| 10:34.05 | Khertan | DocScrutinizer, so trying to fix it |
| 10:34.35 | DocScrutinizer | Khertan: yes, gathered as much - so why do you want to remove USB when it came off anyway? |
| 10:34.45 | DocScrutinizer | or errr wut... |
| 10:35.43 | *** join/#maemo Evanescence (~chris@122.237.22.247) |
| 10:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | Khertan: sorry, there have been way too many users who got USB breakage and were fixing it during last few days |
| 10:36.09 | DocScrutinizer | I prolly mix up things |
| 10:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: I'd need an idea how to login at all |
| 10:36.44 | DocScrutinizer | sftp? |
| 10:36.56 | DocScrutinizer | which URL? |
| 10:36.57 | robbiethe1st | http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras-devel#scp |
| 10:37.19 | DocScrutinizer | I on'tplan to scp anything to builhost |
| 10:37.35 | robbiethe1st | you use dput? |
| 10:37.49 | DocScrutinizer | I on'tplan to * anything to builhost |
| 10:38.09 | robbiethe1st | You don't use extras-devel? |
| 10:38.36 | DocScrutinizer | I don't HAVE ANYTHING to * anything to builhost |
| 10:38.42 | robbiethe1st | Oh. Ok |
| 10:39.00 | DocScrutinizer | shall I uppload /dev/null or what? |
| 10:39.05 | robbiethe1st | Yes. :P |
| 10:39.24 | robbiethe1st | No, I'm just trying to figure out if it's me, or the server that's F***ing up. |
| 10:39.32 | DocScrutinizer | got it |
| 10:39.35 | robbiethe1st | especially as the extras-assistant's not working |
| 10:39.49 | DocScrutinizer | but I can't upload rubbish to see if that works, no? |
| 10:40.13 | robbiethe1st | Heck, just knowing if you can *login* is important. |
| 10:40.21 | robbiethe1st | if *anyone* can login |
| 10:40.40 | DocScrutinizer | HOW T F am I going to *login* via scp?? |
| 10:41.08 | robbiethe1st | Um... scp uses ssh and logs in, doesn't it? |
| 10:41.19 | DocScrutinizer | *sigh* |
| 10:41.25 | robbiethe1st | sorryu |
| 10:41.40 | DocScrutinizer | that doesn't mean I could login via ssh to a shell |
| 10:42.09 | DocScrutinizer | I only could test if I actually could transfer what? rubbish? via scp |
| 10:42.15 | robbiethe1st | Point... But wouldn't you get an error of "no shell allowed" or something, vs "permission denied(pubkey)"? |
| 10:42.23 | robbiethe1st | um |
| 10:42.52 | robbiethe1st | You can have this if you want: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/backupmenu_1.1-1_amd64.changes |
| 10:43.26 | DocScrutinizer | what's the destination URL and user? |
| 10:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | err scratch the user |
| 10:43.51 | robbiethe1st | scp *.tar.gz *.diff.gz *.changes *.dsc <your_garage_login_name>@drop.maemo.org:/var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/ |
| 10:44.14 | MohammadAG | use dput |
| 10:45.08 | robbiethe1st | alright, whynot |
| 10:45.10 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: please would you... |
| 10:45.34 | robbiethe1st | MohammadAG: I'm *used* to using the extras-assistant, which isn't working. |
| 10:45.37 | DocScrutinizer | I did that shit exactly once, ~18months ago |
| 10:46.07 | robbiethe1st | I'm trying to keep it simple. I have files, I want them uploaded. I don't have scratchbox. |
| 10:49.15 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122400/ |
| 10:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | looks kinda borked to me |
| 10:49.36 | Khertan | DocScrutinizer, :) |
| 10:49.45 | robbiethe1st | Ok, thanks |
| 10:49.48 | Khertan | Wouhou ! USB Port repair ... :) |
| 10:49.51 | robbiethe1st | I'll just forget about it tonight |
| 10:49.51 | Khertan | thx all :) |
| 10:50.15 | robbiethe1st | If you want the new Backupmenu, you've got to get it off my website for today. |
| 10:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | btw musing about it I seem to never have used scp or dput but that website |
| 10:52.42 | *** join/#maemo maybeHere (~cl@p5B165D1D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:53.04 | DocScrutinizer | and the webpage for upload ... >>The SSH key is only required when submitting packages via dput. The key is not required by the Extras Assistant web interface.<< |
| 10:54.08 | robbiethe1st | Yea |
| 10:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | it's not that unusual when builthost blows chunks - esp during weekends when nobody is going to fix it ;-) |
| 10:55.47 | robbiethe1st | Seems like it needs an auto-reset/reboot timer |
| 10:56.07 | robbiethe1st | Maby setup a watchdog that, when no packages have been built in ~6 hours, restart the computer |
| 10:56.30 | robbiethe1st | since at least for now, it happens far more frequently than that when it's working |
| 10:57.40 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@port-92-206-107-141.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:59.21 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@207.76.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 10:59.48 | DocScrutinizer | eeeek :-o http://paste.debian.net/122402/ |
| 11:01.43 | DocScrutinizer | dang, apt-cache search bash returns in not ime with nuttin, still |
| 11:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | feeling like a noob |
| 11:02.30 | DocScrutinizer | o/ bbl |
| 11:02.37 | MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: how do I install "apps" on harm? |
| 11:02.44 | MohammadAG | isn't there package-manager? |
| 11:02.50 | MohammadAG | and there aren't any repos |
| 11:03.11 | DocScrutinizer | can't find a package-manager |
| 11:03.30 | DocScrutinizer | there's a strange thin under settings-applications |
| 11:03.46 | DocScrutinizer | but it seems it's for uninstalling only |
| 11:03.53 | *** join/#maemo marainein (~marainein@203-214-45-82.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:03.59 | DocScrutinizer | or for updating |
| 11:06.08 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 11:06.33 | DocScrutinizer | maybe I need to navigate to harmattan-dev.nokia.com with browser, then click on a .deb?? |
| 11:07.03 | DocScrutinizer | NFC |
| 11:07.14 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 11:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | or to store :-O |
| 11:08.40 | DocScrutinizer | "STORE Coming Soon" |
| 11:08.45 | *** join/#maemo vdv (~vdv@ip-109-44-255-183.web.vodafone.de) |
| 11:08.45 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 11:09.26 | jonwil | btw, what browser is Harmattan using? |
| 11:09.36 | jonwil | Is it using some version of MicroB |
| 11:09.50 | jonwil | or something closer to fennec? |
| 11:10.18 | hiemanshu | jonwil: Last I heard it was WebKit 2 based |
| 11:10.29 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 11:10.40 | jonwil | so its open webkit with a closed ui. Sounds crap then |
| 11:10.46 | MohammadAG | webkit |
| 11:11.03 | MohammadAG | I'd kill for a gecko based browser on Harmattan |
| 11:11.07 | MohammadAG | something as simple as microB |
| 11:11.34 | hiemanshu | jonwil: it did pretty good with HTML 5 though |
| 11:11.40 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: there should be fennec for it |
| 11:12.14 | jonwil | I am saying its crap because its yet another closed package |
| 11:12.17 | jonwil | i.e. the closed UI |
| 11:12.26 | jonwil | the webkit engine is not that bad |
| 11:12.59 | hiemanshu | ah |
| 11:12.59 | jonwil | I think Apple has done more to advance mobile web browsers than anyone else actually (thanks to their webkit-for-iphone work which they have to release under LGPL) |
| 11:13.19 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 11:13.32 | DocScrutinizer | "*Can't install* Invalid installation package" |
| 11:14.39 | *** join/#maemo mer_ge (~martin@chello062178156192.9.14.tuwien.teleweb.at) |
| 11:15.20 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: http://bit.ly/p7xZHX see if you can isntall that |
| 11:15.32 | hiemanshu | thats my app, installed fine on RDA |
| 11:15.50 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:21c:bfff:fe4b:be96) |
| 11:15.59 | DocScrutinizer | thanks, but later maybe |
| 11:16.11 | DocScrutinizer | this device is not exactly fun |
| 11:16.15 | hiemanshu | hah |
| 11:16.29 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: it just a test to see if something installs atleast |
| 11:16.57 | psycho_oreos | <DocScrutinizer> this device is not exactly fun <-- at least you have it first hand compared to those of us who has no chance of obtaining one :) |
| 11:17.16 | hiemanshu | otherwise the device is useless, aegis wont let us run stuff, and .debs wont install :P |
| 11:17.29 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: your time shall come :P |
| 11:17.43 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: tried qt-components ? |
| 11:17.46 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, to own a `pre-loved' N950? :) |
| 11:17.57 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: better than none? |
| 11:18.25 | *** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@p5B12E9C4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:18.40 | DocScrutinizer | hell I clicked on http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb |
| 11:18.44 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, more like to find it more broken than initially but hey I suppose whatever rocks your boat :) I was initally very keen on it and now looking back at that same decision I'm not so keen |
| 11:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | if that doesn't install, what else? |
| 11:19.23 | macmaN | i did my longest mobile web browsing session ever last night at the poker tourney |
| 11:19.23 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: Mine should be shipped on monday :P |
| 11:19.28 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: ah lol, that sucks |
| 11:19.39 | psycho_oreos | surely there has to be a way to bypass `aegis', if aegis is something like SELinux |
| 11:19.42 | hiemanshu | macmaN: how long was that? |
| 11:19.49 | macmaN | n950 is the first device that actually provides a pleasant experience doing that and the built in browser is still in half baked shape |
| 11:19.49 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, indeed, and where's mine? :p |
| 11:19.58 | macmaN | well the battery ended up lasting for like 3+ hours total i think |
| 11:20.26 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: in the warehouse, eating dust? :P |
| 11:20.29 | macmaN | i'm seriously thinking about telling them to start putting usb charger points into poker tables |
| 11:20.44 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, more like not a chance :) |
| 11:21.00 | hiemanshu | macmaN: hah |
| 11:21.07 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: I was just being nice :P |
| 11:21.51 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, haha thanks but what's done is done, I'll happily accompany with SpeedEvil and others who went into the reject bin |
| 11:22.13 | psycho_oreos | s/who/whom/ |
| 11:22.21 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: you should all drive up to .fi, and burn down the offices till they hand you your N950 :P |
| 11:22.35 | macmaN | ok arent the murder plots getting old by now |
| 11:22.41 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, and serve time in jail? I think I'll be fine :D |
| 11:22.51 | hiemanshu | macmaN: no, this is burning, not murder :P |
| 11:23.19 | hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: well practise running, and learn to escape from the police :P |
| 11:23.25 | psycho_oreos | in fact Elop probably wouldn't care anyway if offices in .fi were burnt down |
| 11:23.27 | DocScrutinizer | I'd gather there *has* to be a wiki page explaining installation of $random-crap like http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb |
| 11:23.41 | DocScrutinizer | but honestly, getting tired |
| 11:23.50 | psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, I'll stay in the jail longer if I did a premeditated attack :) |
| 11:24.00 | psycho_oreos | s/stay/stay longer/ |
| 11:24.12 | DocScrutinizer | first tests on hostmode were futile. Same as on stock N900 |
| 11:24.15 | psycho_oreos | ugh |
| 11:24.21 | DocScrutinizer | so I'll call it a day |
| 11:24.28 | psycho_oreos | i.e. non-existant? o.O |
| 11:24.38 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: can you recap with a oneliner what you have found broken? i just got online |
| 11:24.54 | macmaN | sounds like more than just bash |
| 11:25.05 | DocScrutinizer | I want to install http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb |
| 11:25.28 | DocScrutinizer | I have no clue what's harmattan's HAM |
| 11:25.28 | *** part/#maemo Khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-162-57.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:25.36 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-162-57.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:25.41 | macmaN | apt-get worked for me :) |
| 11:25.52 | macmaN | for... python-feedparser i think |
| 11:25.53 | DocScrutinizer | apt-cache search shows nuttin - well I guess it's missing repo |
| 11:25.57 | macmaN | right |
| 11:26.13 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: cat /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 11:26.18 | hiemanshu | see the repos there? |
| 11:26.37 | DocScrutinizer | directly clicking the URL in browser got me "*Can't install* Invalid installation package" |
| 11:27.07 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# cat /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 11:27.09 | DocScrutinizer | cat: can't open '/etc/apt/sources.list': No such file or directory |
| 11:27.20 | MohammadAG | hiemanshu, no, not yet |
| 11:27.24 | macmaN | yeah theres only sources.list.d with couple of non-meaningful things in there |
| 11:27.25 | DocScrutinizer | l8ters |
| 11:27.31 | psycho_oreos | could it be like a similar case in N900 where its in /etc/apt/sources.list.d or something liek that? |
| 11:27.57 | hiemanshu | yeah possible |
| 11:28.19 | DocScrutinizer | the whole installing is aegis-ized |
| 11:28.21 | psycho_oreos | surely apt-* has to get their source from somewhere.. maybe run lsof or have something like a fs monitoring daemon such as iwatch |
| 11:28.39 | psycho_oreos | what if you do dpkg -i foo.deb for instance? |
| 11:29.00 | DocScrutinizer | see http://paste.debian.net/122402/ |
| 11:29.06 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 11:29.11 | *** join/#maemo vdv (~vdv@e09R011.mensa-wohnheim.uni-bremen.de) |
| 11:29.37 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:29.54 | psycho_oreos | funny that its grabbing stuff from maemo repsitory rather than harmattan-dev |
| 11:30.48 | psycho_oreos | do you have lsof? if so run lsof on that apt-get |
| 11:35.00 | macmaN | psycho_oreos: dpkg -i worked fine for me, when i tried installing my openvpn package |
| 11:35.51 | psycho_oreos | macmaN, at least it seems `aegis' couldn't stop that :) |
| 11:35.52 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 11:38.14 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 11:39.26 | jonwil | is surprised how many YouTube videos exist of people remixing the famous Nokia tune |
| 11:40.04 | psycho_oreos | indeed, there's plenty of bored people out there ;) |
| 11:40.35 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:46.59 | jonwil | thinks many cell carriers are the scum of the earth and need to die and be replaced with non-greedy companies |
| 11:47.34 | *** join/#maemo idont (~iDont@j138215.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 11:47.45 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122408/ calling $random-installer from browser, by clicking on the downloaded file, failed... meh |
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| 11:49.24 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# which bash |
| 11:49.26 | DocScrutinizer | /bin/bash |
| 11:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# bash |
| 11:49.29 | DocScrutinizer | -sh: bash: Operation not permitted |
| 11:49.36 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ aegis |
| 11:50.15 | alterego | contemplates installing visual studio |
| 11:50.32 | alterego | Heh |
| 11:50.44 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, check to see if bash has execute perms |
| 11:50.48 | DocScrutinizer | contemplates sending back this xxxxxx |
| 11:51.00 | DocScrutinizer | dude |
| 11:51.20 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# ls -l `which bash` |
| 11:51.21 | DocScrutinizer | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 859100 Feb 7 17:32 /bin/bash |
| 11:51.34 | psycho_oreos | weird |
| 11:51.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 11:51.42 | infobot | methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism |
| 11:51.45 | psycho_oreos | and id yields root? |
| 11:51.48 | alterego | It's not weird, it's aegis |
| 11:51.50 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: if achipa is right you should be able to disable this |
| 11:52.06 | alterego | if it's not installed by the package manager, it wont run. |
| 11:52.21 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 11:52.42 | DocScrutinizer | that's pissing me off |
| 11:53.17 | DocScrutinizer | UID=root,0 and yet you're the fool |
| 11:53.18 | psycho_oreos | so in a way they've effectively turned Meego into that shitty Symbian trusted model of where programs are to be signed before they could be installed? lol |
| 11:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | YES |
| 11:53.50 | psycho_oreos | *shrugs* I don't have the device :) |
| 11:53.52 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 11:53.53 | infobot | methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism |
| 11:54.13 | psycho_oreos | and the first link yields 404 on my end |
| 11:54.35 | *** join/#maemo Soder (~Soder@53.96.227.87.static.vx.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 11:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | WFM |
| 11:55.14 | psycho_oreos | the funny thing was in that pastebin output, line 5 noted aegis intercepted the file but could not clarify the source |
| 11:55.30 | alterego | I'm sure you can disable it DocScrutinizer |
| 11:55.36 | psycho_oreos | *scratches head* wouldn't there be a way to make aegis pick up dpkg as a recognised tool? |
| 11:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | I'm sure *I* can't |
| 11:55.56 | DocScrutinizer | maybe Nokia can |
| 11:56.09 | psycho_oreos | ah well if you're not a nokia developer you get 404 that's all I can say :) I'm not one because I wasn't accepted to be a developer |
| 11:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, great! |
| 11:56.50 | petteri | works for me |
| 11:57.25 | psycho_oreos | is eager to hack that thing, alas if someone has their N950 with ssh and linked to internet maybe I can create some havoc ;) |
| 11:57.43 | psycho_oreos | petteri, you logged in? |
| 11:58.03 | petteri | i am not |
| 11:58.06 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: maybe just flash a custom kernel? ;) |
| 11:58.16 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q="Application+security+refers+to+procedures+used+in+the+design,+development,+deployment,+upgrade"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 |
| 11:58.35 | petteri | this channel is slowly trasforming to yet another tmo with all the whiners |
| 11:58.47 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: SURE! |
| 11:59.10 | psycho_oreos | petteri, fancy that. I can see it working but obviously nothing to describe it |
| 11:59.19 | petteri | strange |
| 11:59.29 | psycho_oreos | petteri, maybe you have a cached version? |
| 11:59.46 | petteri | are we talking about the same page? |
| 12:00.03 | DocScrutinizer | would you please refer to the google page and see if the link there works?! |
| 12:00.14 | psycho_oreos | petteri, I'm talking about: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide |
| 12:00.21 | psycho_oreos | checks google link |
| 12:00.31 | petteri | yes that one works for me |
| 12:00.55 | jpinx_ | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide |
| 12:00.59 | jpinx_ | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide |
| 12:01.12 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08BD8E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:01.49 | jpinx_ | Oooops .. sorry . didn't realise putty auto copied... |
| 12:02.13 | psycho_oreos | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dB3ljaTknZUJ:library.developer.nokia.com/topic/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide_4f17.html+Application+security+refers+to+procedures+used+in+the+design,+development,+deployment,+upgrade&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&source=www.google.de <-- this worked |
| 12:02.36 | psycho_oreos | I cleared my cache and reloaded that initial link (not google link) and no still no dice |
| 12:02.48 | idont | the link in ~aegis has a comma at its end, which shouldn't be there of course |
| 12:03.05 | idont | the page loads fine here without this comma |
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| 12:04.30 | psycho_oreos | hah! *slaps forehead* and that works lol thanks idont |
| 12:04.46 | idont | psycho_oreos: yw |
| 12:06.19 | hiemanshu | ~aegis |
| 12:06.19 | infobot | from memory, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism |
| 12:06.20 | DocScrutinizer | haha, if your irc client includes the comma, to bad |
| 12:06.25 | DocScrutinizer | mine doesn't |
| 12:06.34 | idont | I'm using plain xchat :-/ |
| 12:06.35 | hiemanshu | yeah, doesn't include comma here either |
| 12:07.01 | idont | what a shame, ah well |
| 12:07.20 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism |
| 12:07.20 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 12:07.36 | idont | :-D |
| 12:07.40 | psycho_oreos | I'm using more or less a plain xchat :) |
| 12:09.04 | DocScrutinizer | petteri: thanks for jumping in :-) |
| 12:13.04 | DocScrutinizer | NB I've enabled "Allow installations from non-Store sources" in settings-installations |
| 12:14.57 | DocScrutinizer | ...while the "menu entry" one above, named "Manage applications" seems to only have a list of installed apps I could UNinstall, and a "update" tab that says "device is up to date" |
| 12:15.28 | DocScrutinizer | I really fail to get it what's the supposed standard way to install apps on harm |
| 12:15.29 | MohammadAG | hehe |
| 12:15.33 | MohammadAG | Symbian Anna leaked |
| 12:15.39 | MohammadAG | alterego, feeling brave? |
| 12:17.01 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: any hints? |
| 12:21.43 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@2001:470:d2ad:1:4a5b:39ff:fe7d:1623) |
| 12:27.17 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48A23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 12:28.41 | macmaN | my n950 vibrates and beeps in seemingly random fashion every once in a while. there's no message of any kind visible when i look at the lock screen after i hear it. does it do it going in and out of network coverage? i'm in a spotty coverage area. |
| 12:30.45 | MohammadAG | I'd run dbus-monitor --system |
| 12:30.58 | MohammadAG | or dbus-monitor --system | grep -A 5 mce |
| 12:31.06 | MohammadAG | and leave it running to see which pattern's vibrating |
| 12:32.33 | DocScrutinizer | just in case you're still interested in finding how to (not) add repos to apt: http://paste.debian.net/122414/ |
| 12:32.54 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (~thopiekar@p5DCA68ED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:35.03 | macmaN | MohammadAG: hehe thats pretty cool |
| 12:35.41 | *** join/#maemo buntfalke (~nobody@unaffiliated/buntfalke) |
| 12:36.13 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: do a watch 'lsof|grep apt >> apt-get.txt', and then run apt-get update in another terminal |
| 12:36.32 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: ????? |
| 12:36.46 | DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with the list I posted? |
| 12:36.54 | *** join/#maemo gri (~gri@p4FCED102.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:37.11 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: its not showing anything with an actual list source |
| 12:37.18 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 12:37.59 | DocScrutinizer | and what makes you thing your method will show this, while my ^Z stopping of apt-get update doesn't? |
| 12:38.05 | DocScrutinizer | think* |
| 12:38.47 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: werent you supposed to call it a day? |
| 12:38.49 | macmaN | :> |
| 12:38.51 | DocScrutinizer | I bet list source is in aegisfs |
| 12:39.13 | hiemanshu | well mostly because it might be accessing the file at that moment |
| 12:39.19 | hiemanshu | so having it in a loop, makes sense |
| 12:40.11 | DocScrutinizer | don't you think strace was a better choice then? |
| 12:41.58 | hiemanshu | right, that would be a better choice |
| 12:42.24 | *** join/#maemo CaCO3 (~gruinelli@19-233.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 12:43.08 | macmaN | zomg i left xscreensaver into "pick random" mode on a client machine |
| 12:43.38 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@port-6797.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 12:43.45 | macmaN | now im sitting here and seeing a screensaver with bomb screens for mac system 7 or 9, BSODs, fake linux kernel panics etc |
| 12:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | see, it's simple: as alterego(?) noticed quite correctly, aegis won't run binaries that aren't installed via standard method (let's assume that's apt for now). So it wouldn't make *any* sense when a rogue process could simply add a repo to apt's repo-source.list and then install whatever it wants. You can't edit that list as usual |
| 12:44.25 | macmaN | if your concentrating on something else that shiznit freaks ME out for a sec, its probably not good for the dumbusers at all |
| 12:46.52 | robbiethe1st | Hm, it's all up to /you/ then. You need to build the proper tool to break all this Aegis crap. You are the only one who can do it! |
| 12:47.28 | alterego | Just install a custom kernel .. |
| 12:47.35 | alterego | Or remove it from the rootfs |
| 12:48.12 | hiemanshu | alterego: no go, achipa said that wouldn't work |
| 12:48.31 | robbiethe1st | And that's why we need something like backupmenu. That would explain Quim's comment in his decline email to me about Backupmenu potentially not being able to be ported.... |
| 12:48.34 | alterego | Hrm, did he say what would work? |
| 12:48.44 | hiemanshu | mostly because some binaries are signed, and some are encrypted |
| 12:48.47 | robbiethe1st | probably be able to, but it'd screw things up as everyone'd be able to edit the rootfs easily. |
| 12:49.40 | alterego | I don't see why that matters. |
| 12:49.42 | hiemanshu | so if there is no way to decrypt the binaries, they wouldn't run at all, and you would have a unusuable system |
| 12:49.57 | alterego | Only devs require this type of functionality. |
| 12:50.37 | robbiethe1st | Well, lets see... the binaries have to run unencrypted, right? might it be possible to grab the code from memory once it's unlocked? |
| 12:50.38 | hiemanshu | tell that to nokia :P |
| 12:51.10 | hiemanshu | robbiethe1st: if only it was that easy :P |
| 12:51.10 | DocScrutinizer | FWIW: |
| 12:51.15 | DocScrutinizer | open("/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4 |
| 12:51.16 | DocScrutinizer | open("/etc/apt/sources.list.d/", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC) = 4 |
| 12:51.18 | DocScrutinizer | open("/etc/apt/sources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-dadd.list", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4 |
| 12:51.19 | DocScrutinizer | open("/etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4 |
| 12:51.26 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 12:52.06 | robbiethe1st | Well, I'm off. while you guys get to mess with /draconian/ DRM restrictions, I get to stay with my open -- but not quite so new -- N900. :P |
| 12:52.34 | alterego | Well, I don't have an N950 yet :P |
| 12:52.35 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: aha, it does read those files, now to find a way to decrypt them |
| 12:52.36 | DocScrutinizer | hugs his N900 |
| 12:52.43 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: mind pasting the 3 files? |
| 12:52.51 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 12:53.24 | hiemanshu | doesn't have one, so will have to wait :( |
| 12:53.25 | alterego | I'm using my N900 right now to IRC anyway :P |
| 12:54.09 | gri | my n950 sleeps at leipzig airport over the weekend :( |
| 12:54.27 | hiemanshu | I am on my terrace with a laptop :P Enjoying the nice cool breeze and ranting about qt-components |
| 12:54.29 | DocScrutinizer | Acquire::https::Verify-Peer 0; |
| 12:54.31 | DocScrutinizer | ~ |
| 12:54.39 | jonwil | which binary is reading those files? |
| 12:54.44 | hiemanshu | jonwil: apt-get update |
| 12:54.45 | DocScrutinizer | deb https://qa9recEP:Pat2UGuP@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/rm680 ./ |
| 12:54.46 | DocScrutinizer | deb https://qa9recEP:Pat2UGuP@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/tools ./ |
| 12:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | deb https://qa9recEP:Pat2UGuP@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/apps ./ |
| 12:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | ~ |
| 12:55.01 | DocScrutinizer | deb-exec /usr/bin/osa |
| 12:55.02 | DocScrutinizer | ~ |
| 12:55.33 | alterego | Heh, I'm setting up a dev system based on Windows 7 on my exo pc |
| 12:56.04 | hiemanshu | hmm, username and password too |
| 12:56.07 | hiemanshu | thats odd |
| 12:56.20 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@189.115.80.233) |
| 12:56.43 | jonwil | someone wanna look up which files come from the maemointernal-keyring file? |
| 12:56.46 | jonwil | package I mean |
| 12:57.00 | hiemanshu | jonwil: fremantle? |
| 12:57.07 | jonwil | Harmattan |
| 12:57.17 | jonwil | thats something from a harmattan dpkg -l list I have |
| 12:57.21 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: dpkg -L <pacjage name> |
| 12:57.36 | DocScrutinizer | hmm? |
| 12:57.57 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: dpkg -L maemointernal-keyring |
| 12:58.03 | hiemanshu | jonwil wants it |
| 12:58.05 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: have you tried flashing the device? |
| 12:58.15 | alterego | Or are the published images still old? |
| 12:58.18 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 12:58.22 | hiemanshu | alterego: where are the flashers? couldn't find em |
| 12:58.32 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:59.02 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122416/ |
| 12:59.22 | hiemanshu | jonwil: ^ |
| 12:59.54 | alterego | hiemanshu: they're at the develop nokia site, |
| 13:00.11 | hiemanshu | alterego: I found the flasher, not the image |
| 13:00.17 | jonwil | Someone should do whatever command it is to find which package provides /etc/apt/sources.list.d and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu |
| 13:01.48 | alterego | erm, they were the same file, it was a self extracting archive. |
| 13:02.23 | jonwil | knowing which package contains those files might help one understand where the protection against install random crap comes from |
| 13:02.29 | *** join/#maemo vdv (~vdv@ip-2-206-72-250.web.vodafone.de) |
| 13:02.54 | DocScrutinizer | if you're further interested: http://paste.debian.net/122417/ |
| 13:03.35 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu |
| 13:04.21 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 13:04.22 | DocScrutinizer | dpkg: /etc/apt/sources.list not found. |
| 13:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu |
| 13:04.51 | DocScrutinizer | ssu-keyring-dadd: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu |
| 13:05.04 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: list.d |
| 13:05.07 | hiemanshu | you missed a .d |
| 13:05.39 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d |
| 13:05.40 | DocScrutinizer | apt: /etc/apt/sources.list.d |
| 13:06.00 | jonwil | ok, so what does dpkg -L ssu-keyring-dadd say? |
| 13:07.27 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 13:07.31 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122419/ |
| 13:09.29 | jonwil | what does dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list say? |
| 13:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list |
| 13:10.07 | DocScrutinizer | dpkg: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list not found. |
| 13:10.36 | *** join/#maemo ProfPutz (~ProfPutz@p54B2B0AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:10.37 | frals | osa sounds like ovi store adapter |
| 13:10.41 | jonwil | yeah |
| 13:10.57 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 13:11.01 | jonwil | is there a way to make dpkg or apt list all packages that depend on package x? |
| 13:11.02 | ProfPutz | you dont understand banking |
| 13:11.08 | jonwil | specifically the package apt |
| 13:11.19 | DocScrutinizer | isn't this like "Startrek"? Scotty: "Computer: what does dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list say?" |
| 13:11.47 | hiemanshu | lol |
| 13:12.26 | ProfPutz | who owna the media docscrutinizer? |
| 13:13.22 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't compute |
| 13:14.03 | ProfPutz | hahah |
| 13:14.20 | ProfPutz | Kind |
| 13:14.28 | ProfPutz | Depp |
| 13:14.52 | ProfPutz | Wichser |
| 13:14.59 | alterego | windows 7 really hits the exo hard, it's struggling now, fan going full pelt and it's quite hot .. |
| 13:15.00 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 13:15.05 | *** kick/#maemo [ProfPutz!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 13:15.08 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 13:15.22 | alterego | This is what those intel based phones are gonna be like I bet. |
| 13:16.38 | jonwil | we have some smart people in here, I am sure we can put our heads together and figure out the file(s) that are involved in determining where apt-get install <blah> will look |
| 13:16.50 | jonwil | and the files involved in ensuring that list isn't tampered with |
| 13:17.00 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: believe me it doesn't help |
| 13:17.38 | DocScrutinizer | in the end it's aegis that calculates hashes, compares signatures, and allows or denies stuff |
| 13:18.34 | SpeedEvil | So you may be able to install arbitrary stuff. |
| 13:18.43 | SpeedEvil | But if it's not blessed, it will segfault |
| 13:18.46 | SpeedEvil | or whatever |
| 13:18.50 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 13:18.51 | DocScrutinizer | It won't start |
| 13:19.04 | jonwil | so how do you turn off aegis? |
| 13:19.07 | jonwil | or cant you? |
| 13:19.10 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# bash |
| 13:19.12 | DocScrutinizer | -sh: bash: Operation not permitted |
| 13:19.18 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: you can't |
| 13:19.46 | SpeedEvil | What is 'developer mode' |
| 13:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | as there's an arbitrary number of core components that are linked against and rely on aegis |
| 13:20.05 | frals | enabales usb networking and installs ssh/term and some other utilities |
| 13:20.44 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: developer mode is when aegis decides the platform is "tainted" -basically |
| 13:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | It's another state of aegis |
| 13:22.43 | jonwil | what core components are linked to aegis then? |
| 13:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | frals: don't *you* know how to install e.g. bash from http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb (or any other source) |
| 13:23.24 | frals | DocScrutinizer: cant say ive ever tried, and i guess something complains when you do dpkg -i on your device? ;P |
| 13:23.30 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: well, obviously apt and busybox at least |
| 13:23.35 | SpeedEvil | In tainted mode, will it let you run anything? |
| 13:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | frals: nothing complains |
| 13:23.55 | DocScrutinizer | just (see above) |
| 13:23.59 | frals | ah |
| 13:24.14 | frals | isnt there some aegis-exec bullshitcrap you can to run it? |
| 13:24.35 | frals | tbh i never cared much for that aegis piece of shit, i disable it whenever i need to muck around on any device :( |
| 13:24.36 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, maybe. there's a aegis-exec |
| 13:24.50 | DocScrutinizer | how??? |
| 13:24.53 | alterego | eh |
| 13:24.55 | alterego | Heh |
| 13:24.57 | frals | which i assume is not possible on your devices :p |
| 13:25.06 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 13:25.06 | alterego | awww :P |
| 13:25.22 | frals | but i guess you got access to flasher and the images right? |
| 13:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 13:25.40 | DocScrutinizer | the ONE obsolete image |
| 13:25.44 | hiemanshu | frals: is there a new image? I heard there was a new image recently |
| 13:25.57 | jonwil | Going to be hard to do too much on the N950 if you cant run random software |
| 13:26.00 | frals | i have no clue about what images there are for devs |
| 13:26.08 | frals | DocScrutinizer: one fiasco + emmc i guess? |
| 13:26.19 | DocScrutinizer | think so, yes |
| 13:26.20 | jonwil | Whats the point of a developer phone if you cant run stuff you write? |
| 13:26.28 | frals | anyway, the following might take a shit all over your device so dont blame me if it fucks it up |
| 13:26.31 | frals | echo 0 > /etc/aegis/enable; echo 0 > /etc/aegis/enforce; sync; reboot |
| 13:26.56 | frals | im pretty sure it wont let you boot afterwards with the devices you got ;( |
| 13:27.00 | DocScrutinizer | pff, firing it |
| 13:27.35 | DocScrutinizer | if I can kill the device by this, then maybe it shall be |
| 13:28.14 | alterego | Heh |
| 13:28.24 | alterego | You wont be able to reflash though .. |
| 13:28.39 | DocScrutinizer | eeeh, why? |
| 13:28.43 | *** join/#maemo mer_ge (~martin@chello062178156192.9.14.tuwien.teleweb.at) |
| 13:29.04 | DocScrutinizer | screwit |
| 13:29.11 | frals | alterego: why? |
| 13:29.13 | DocScrutinizer | not touching this crap anymore today |
| 13:29.28 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# cat /etc/aegis/enable |
| 13:29.30 | DocScrutinizer | cat: can't open '/etc/aegis/enable': No such file or directory |
| 13:29.31 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# cat /etc/aegis/enforce |
| 13:29.32 | DocScrutinizer | cat: can't open '/etc/aegis/enforce': No such file or directory |
| 13:29.43 | frals | DocScrutinizer: after rebooting? |
| 13:29.47 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 13:29.47 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 13:29.50 | frals | they dont exist by default |
| 13:29.51 | DocScrutinizer | not touching this crap anymore today |
| 13:29.58 | frals | ok ;p |
| 13:30.40 | *** join/#maemo mer_ge_ (~martin@chello062178156192.9.14.tuwien.teleweb.at) |
| 13:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | first I want a clear word about how's supposed standard way to *isntall* sth on this brick |
| 13:31.06 | jonwil | I doubt that we will see a mobile phone that is as open out of the box as the N900 was for a long time |
| 13:31.13 | DocScrutinizer | considering there's no HAM or similar |
| 13:31.29 | jonwil | The carriers will continue to push hard against it |
| 13:31.35 | jonwil | because an open phone kills their business model |
| 13:31.39 | *** join/#maemo mer_ge (~martin@chello062178156192.9.14.tuwien.teleweb.at) |
| 13:32.00 | DocScrutinizer | not exactly their business model, rather the ringtone mafia's |
| 13:32.13 | jonwil | naah, ringtones arent the big thing |
| 13:32.21 | jonwil | these days its about stopping tethering |
| 13:32.29 | jonwil | or mobile hotspot |
| 13:32.32 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 13:32.38 | jonwil | or other upcharge services |
| 13:33.11 | DocScrutinizer | not here |
| 13:33.37 | DocScrutinizer | my provider doesn't offer anything cheaper than plain data volume |
| 13:33.47 | DocScrutinizer | tether as you like |
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| 13:34.43 | *** join/#maemo c2pLaY (~yep@unaffiliated/c2play) |
| 13:34.44 | DocScrutinizer | they even don't care in reality about VoIP and p2p |
| 13:35.35 | DocScrutinizer | hell, they even offer "OTA DSL" |
| 13:35.52 | jonwil | my provider doesnt care about my data use either |
| 13:35.57 | DocScrutinizer | with a proper switch and 4 * 100BT |
| 13:36.15 | DocScrutinizer | all the same price |
| 13:36.23 | jonwil | But carriers in North America DO care |
| 13:36.34 | jonwil | and no OEM can afford to ignore the US |
| 13:36.47 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia did for ages :-P |
| 13:36.58 | doc|home | jonwil: I'm using one that doesn't care. Unlimited everything for $40. |
| 13:37.17 | jonwil | which carrier would that be? |
| 13:37.19 | doc|home | the key being they're new competition and not one of the big ones that have been around for ever |
| 13:37.25 | doc|home | jonwil: wind mobile |
| 13:37.29 | jonwil | oh yeah |
| 13:37.50 | jonwil | Only problem is, Rogers and Bell are using dodgy legal tricks to try and force Wind out of the market |
| 13:37.55 | DocScrutinizer | frals: how's the "user" way to install "apps" on harmattan? |
| 13:37.56 | doc|home | in this country it's always been the lack of competition due to regulations which has killed price wars |
| 13:38.12 | frals | DocScrutinizer: i assume a "user" would go to ovi store |
| 13:38.21 | DocScrutinizer | frals: I gather until recebtly that's been OVI |
| 13:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | yeah :-/ |
| 13:38.36 | doc|home | jonwil: yep, lots of politics. Doesn't help that the guy in charge of regulation is a former bell (and rogers iirc) exec |
| 13:38.36 | frals | DocScrutinizer: but im far removed from how this is suppose to work so im just guessing really |
| 13:39.01 | DocScrutinizer | click on "Store" on your N950 ;-P |
| 13:39.22 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.145.113.162) |
| 13:39.22 | jonwil | Is your political system stuffed up like the US is or can you vote for someone who will actually DO SOMETHING about things like this? |
| 13:39.30 | DocScrutinizer | hell, this is SUCH a PITA |
| 13:39.39 | doc|home | jonwil: hahaha, there's no where you can vote for someone who will do things. |
| 13:39.39 | jonwil | Here in Australia we have a government that gives a stuff |
| 13:39.55 | doc|home | jonwil: the same government pushing for the censorship? :/ |
| 13:40.03 | jonwil | no, they seem to have dropped that |
| 13:40.08 | jonwil | due to the public outcry |
| 13:40.12 | jonwil | and are re-thinking the policy |
| 13:40.12 | *** join/#maemo zzr (~ch-rose@ALyon-158-1-77-47.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:40.14 | doc|home | hahaha |
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| 13:40.26 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr_ (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 13:40.28 | doc|home | so, basically they only give a stuff when they're going to get caught out. Yeah, not great really, is it? |
| 13:40.40 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 13:40.57 | jonwil | no, what happened is that they supported the filter because they needed to keep a particular politician on side in order to pass bills |
| 13:41.11 | jonwil | but there has been an election since then |
| 13:41.17 | jonwil | and that guy isn't in power anymore |
| 13:41.19 | *** join/#maemo auenf (David@171.72.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 13:41.22 | jonwil | so they dont need to suck up to him |
| 13:41.24 | doc|home | meh, politics. They screw everyone except the connected. |
| 13:41.26 | nid0 | interestingly, our govt actually gets complained about even more when they do things people want |
| 13:41.27 | jonwil | hence they can drop the filter |
| 13:41.28 | *** part/#maemo zzr (~ch-rose@ALyon-158-1-77-47.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:41.44 | jonwil | but yeah not only is our government building a massive fiber-to-the-home network for most of the population (with wireless and sattelite for the rest) |
| 13:41.45 | doc|home | back in a few mins, need to reboot |
| 13:42.18 | jonwil | but they have actually passed bills forcing a breakup of the former monopoly telco |
| 13:42.26 | jonwil | to separate out the retail and wholesale arms |
| 13:42.41 | nid0 | following the bt model then |
| 13:42.44 | jonwil | with the wholesale arm to be swallowed up by the new fiber network |
| 13:42.46 | nid0 | that worked really well here. |
| 13:43.47 | jonwil | Its working better here |
| 13:43.55 | jonwil | because both the government and regulator care |
| 13:43.57 | jonwil | and have teeth |
| 13:45.39 | jonwil | plus, the government is paying $11 billion to Telstra (former monopoly) for access to the old infrastructure so it can build the new network and reuse it |
| 13:45.48 | nid0 | sigh, cheap SAN's are akward :< |
| 13:45.49 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (~doc@S01060026f319ba77.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 13:45.49 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (~doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 13:45.55 | jonwil | so it will pull the fiber through the ducts where the old copper came from |
| 13:53.45 | *** join/#maemo Termana (Termana@70.32.34.100) |
| 13:59.52 | Ken-Young | Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the rx-51 file to make the N900's EuroSign key produce Escape instead? |
| 14:01.46 | RzR950 | sure |
| 14:02.10 | Sicelo | i think so Ken-Young, but don't quote me. check wiki... Remapping Keyboard |
| 14:02.30 | RzR950 | do y know where can i find libncurses ? |
| 14:02.41 | RzR950 | for fremantle |
| 14:02.50 | RzR950 | it said it was removed ? |
| 14:02.52 | Sicelo | repos? |
| 14:03.01 | Ken-Young | Sicelo, I've successfullchanged the British Pound key into a "|" key for piping.y modified that file before. I've |
| 14:03.03 | RzR950 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/libncurses5-dev/ |
| 14:03.23 | gri | huh, there is no git available in the harmattan scratchbox? |
| 14:03.25 | Ken-Young | Sicelo, But I can't figure out how to make it produce the Escape character. |
| 14:04.21 | RzR950 | gri i am working on it |
| 14:04.25 | RzR950 | to built it |
| 14:04.51 | RzR950 | should be ready soon or later |
| 14:05.03 | Ken-Young | Sicelo, Ooops - I meant: I've successfully modified that file before. I've changed the British Pound key into a "|" key, for piping. |
| 14:06.52 | *** join/#maemo Rpa (Rpa@public10939.xdsl.centertel.pl) |
| 14:09.11 | Sicelo | there's a tmo thread about reconfiguring the on screen keys on terminal ... might give u leads (i'm on the road atm) |
| 14:09.40 | Ken-Young | Sicelo, Thanks for the pointer. |
| 14:12.36 | CaCO3 | does anybody already have experience with building packages for Harmattan with OBS? |
| 14:12.56 | CaCO3 | cant find any usefull do to shpow how to pack my apps |
| 14:16.11 | alterego | CaCO3: I'd look in the obs for other peoples projects (xfade) would be good :) |
| 14:19.54 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~vdvsx@a88-113-10-188.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:24.20 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 14:27.49 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:215:c5ff:fe7e:4a96) |
| 14:29.54 | dm8tbr | btw: did anyone spot an FCC filing for the N9 yet? |
| 14:30.07 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48A23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:32.37 | RzR950 | CaCO3: i am doing this for a couple of days |
| 14:32.52 | *** join/#maemo sigkill__ (~sigkill@bl16-230-1.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 14:33.38 | RzR950 | http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/armel/ |
| 14:34.22 | *** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org) |
| 14:34.45 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p54A1E88C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:35.10 | CaCO3 | RzR950: how did you start? did you write the spec file manually or is tere a tool for it |
| 14:35.21 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Install from .deb in Browser, apt-get install or wait for the apps.meego.com client from pycage |
| 14:35.29 | *** join/#maemo pali (~quassel@ip-88-212-34-237.antik.sk) |
| 14:35.51 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: There's an FMC thread, "apps.meego.com in N9" which is relevant |
| 14:37.20 | DocScrutinizer | I tried "Install from .deb in Browser" -->"invalid pkg format" (OWTTE) |
| 14:37.47 | DocScrutinizer | tried dpkg -i the-downloaded-.deb... installed but doesn't run |
| 14:38.27 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: What deb? |
| 14:38.32 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# bash |
| 14:38.34 | DocScrutinizer | -sh: bash: Operation not permitted |
| 14:38.42 | *** join/#maemo Sickki_ (sickki@88-148-233-208.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 14:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb |
| 14:39.14 | Jaffa | can't launch the link from MeeGo Terminal :-( |
| 14:39.36 | *** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org) |
| 14:40.46 | DocScrutinizer | can I help on that? |
| 14:41.48 | Jaffa | Shouldn't you be able to apt-get install something from that repo? |
| 14:42.44 | DocScrutinizer | that repo isn't in repo list? dunno, apt-cacje search bash gives nuttin |
| 14:43.32 | Jaffa | Indeed, just checked. |
| 14:45.08 | DocScrutinizer | and we definitely won't get it in |
| 14:45.23 | DocScrutinizer | just like *snip* |
| 14:45.46 | DocScrutinizer | aegis will terribly bark |
| 14:46.26 | *** join/#maemo pavi_ (~pavi@117.204.65.233) |
| 14:46.46 | pavi_ | Booh my USB on my brand new N900 seems not to be working :( |
| 14:46.59 | pavi_ | dmesg on desktop says unable to enumerate USB device on port 1 |
| 14:47.29 | pavi_ | Just yesterday people warned me to take care of the USB port , looks like I f*ked it up :( |
| 14:47.40 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 14:47.48 | jonwil | ok, we have package developer-mode which depends on aegis-developer-unknown-source-policy |
| 14:47.53 | jonwil | Thats from n950 btw |
| 14:48.11 | CaCO3 | pavi_ : how did you break it? |
| 14:48.25 | CaCO3 | I often put a lot of stress onto it, but never had problem |
| 14:48.39 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: are you *still* not giving up? :) |
| 14:48.46 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: i think youve been living like 3 times now |
| 14:48.49 | macmaN | leaving* |
| 14:49.24 | pavi_ | CaCO3: I just used the cable like 3 times , dunno if its broke or not |
| 14:49.30 | DocScrutinizer | I've survived three excessive headdesking sessions |
| 14:49.32 | Sicelo | pavi_: check your cable.. try a different port |
| 14:49.34 | NIN101 | I don't think its broken pavi_ |
| 14:50.00 | DocScrutinizer | pavi_: hold 'u' |
| 14:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | pavi_: chck for USB icon on N900 |
| 14:50.32 | DocScrutinizer | if flasher fails, ^C and redo command |
| 14:50.34 | pavi_ | USB icon is not showing up .. dmesg on xterm in N900 shows no reaction |
| 14:51.23 | DocScrutinizer | pavi_: you need to really *power down* N900 (remove battery to be sure) |
| 14:51.35 | DocScrutinizer | pavi_: hold 'u' - plug in USB |
| 14:51.58 | DocScrutinizer | pavi_: of course with battery reinserted |
| 14:52.01 | pavi_ | ok |
| 14:52.41 | pavi_ | I applied some updates yesterday night |
| 14:54.12 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: aegis-developer-unknown-source-policy is the word |
| 14:55.26 | SpeedEvil | pavi: Try another cable |
| 14:55.58 | pavi_ | I plugged in the USB after turning N9000 off . There is a orange blinking light once I plug in USB . something is trying to come up |
| 14:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | meh, isn't it *always* the PC and drivers there that barf up |
| 14:56.36 | DocScrutinizer | you must hold 'U' key |
| 14:56.59 | DocScrutinizer | when there's a yellow blinking light you're WAAAY too late |
| 14:57.30 | pavi_ | DocScrutinizer: 'U' key before booting up ? |
| 14:57.55 | DocScrutinizer | hold U key, then plug in USB - is it really that hard? |
| 14:58.00 | CaCO3 | RzR950: how did you know what to write into the spec file? |
| 14:58.11 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@84.249.126.153) |
| 14:58.38 | DocScrutinizer | remove and reinsert batery, hold and keep U, while plugging in USB |
| 14:59.29 | pavi_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:59.40 | pavi_ | oops sorry for the blank space and line |
| 14:59.42 | RzR950 | CaCO3: as usual, RTFM |
| 14:59.45 | *** join/#maemo Scifig (~Scifig@c-24-4-32-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:00.08 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AA7FE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:00.46 | *** join/#maemo pauly (6c0f31ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.15.49.206) |
| 15:01.24 | DocScrutinizer | pavi_: then check for USN icon on NOKIA screen, start flasher, if flasher doesn't work, ^C and start again. Do 5 times. If that fails, PLEASE read |
| 15:01.27 | DocScrutinizer | ~flash |
| 15:01.27 | infobot | i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 15:01.55 | *** join/#maemo the_lord (~david@190.77.88.85) |
| 15:02.25 | *** join/#maemo gri_ (~gri@p4FCEBDA7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:02.49 | DocScrutinizer | pavi_: use linux for flasher, windows is knows to have all sorts of "issues" |
| 15:02.57 | DocScrutinizer | and poor support here :-) |
| 15:03.02 | NIN101 | on every close button, this pixel error/disruption appears atm on my device In portrait mode too. A week or so ago I had a similiar issue. What could be causing this? http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/l3kaxb3q/Screenshot20110709165544.png |
| 15:03.16 | pavi_ | DocScrutinizer: ofcourse linux . ask SpeedEvil :P |
| 15:04.35 | pavi_ | If it helps , I am using N900 without a sim |
| 15:05.27 | *** join/#maemo th3_4zarado (~user@187.114.101.121) |
| 15:08.03 | *** join/#maemo tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 15:08.20 | pavi_ | DocScrutinizer: I tried with U key its giving some console messages after the orange blinking light ,cant read the messages because the brightness is very low and sometimes like once every 20 seconds I get a loading three dots ... and it stops my desktop still shows . unable to emurate |
| 15:08.56 | DocScrutinizer | your battery is empty |
| 15:09.03 | DocScrutinizer | you got a bootloop |
| 15:09.29 | DocScrutinizer | with bootloop the device doesn't charge, so no way to charge battery, ergo no way to reflash |
| 15:09.35 | pavi_ | Yes exactly a bootloop |
| 15:10.07 | pavi_ | so do I charge my battery to full ? |
| 15:10.15 | SpeedEvil | ~flatbat |
| 15:10.19 | SpeedEvil | ~flatbatrecover |
| 15:10.19 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 15:11.01 | pavi_ | I removed USB just now and clicked on power swittch its booting nicely ! |
| 15:11.48 | pavi_ | Battery is now at 25 % |
| 15:12.11 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: won't recover from bootloop |
| 15:12.17 | pavi_ | SHall I switch off and do the above thing ? |
| 15:12.48 | DocScrutinizer | if it enters blinking orange state, let it sit and charge til green |
| 15:12.50 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 15:13.12 | pavi_ | you mean in USB mode ? |
| 15:13.15 | DocScrutinizer | blank screen, no activity |
| 15:13.41 | DocScrutinizer | I mean when it starts blinking orange, don't touch until green |
| 15:13.45 | DocScrutinizer | I'm off now |
| 15:14.01 | pavi_ | ok |
| 15:15.12 | pavi_ | Thanks for the help .. I will be reading on flashing the device |
| 15:16.19 | *** join/#maemo Necc86 (~user@ozhhitn7xa.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 15:16.42 | *** join/#maemo Necc86 (~user@ozhhitn7xa.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 15:16.45 | Necc86 | join #aion |
| 15:16.48 | Necc86 | ... |
| 15:17.15 | ShadowJK | you want full battery for flashing |
| 15:17.24 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@ozhhitn7xa.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 15:17.47 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@ozhhitn7xa.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 15:18.55 | pavi_ | ShadowJK: ok switched it off and kept it for charging |
| 15:21.30 | *** join/#maemo yacc (~andreas@84.113.164.165) |
| 15:21.35 | alterego | Okay, I'm watching iplayer on N8 whilst working on exo :) |
| 15:27.32 | *** join/#maemo marthd (~quassel@212-183-43-186.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 15:32.45 | CaCO3 | RzR950: I wouldnt ask if I hadent studied existing packages and the manual |
| 15:33.11 | CaCO3 | RzR950: Would be great if you could help a bit. I now uplaoded a tar.gz and wrote a spec file (https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=shedskin&project=home%3ACaCO3) |
| 15:33.37 | CaCO3 | RzR950: The build fails with the error" nothing provides g++, nothing provides libpcre3-dev, nothing provides libgc-dev, nothing provides python-dev" |
| 15:34.07 | CaCO3 | RzR950: Are they all not (yet) available or whats wrong? |
| 15:35.25 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 15:36.16 | javispedro | moo |
| 15:36.36 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: moooo |
| 15:37.18 | dm8tbr | CaCO3: can be that the repository is currently rebuilding or something is broken? |
| 15:37.38 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: read chanlog! lots of fun with aegis |
| 15:37.41 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 15:37.45 | CaCO3 | I dono, I work with OBS the first time :| |
| 15:38.41 | CaCO3 | U updated the spec file, but am wondering how to trigger a rebuild. According to the manual it should be done automaticaly, but cant see any feedback |
| 15:39.28 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: there's obviously a mini-howto missing on "make arbitrary .deb work" |
| 15:39.43 | javispedro | I thought that would work oout of the box. |
| 15:40.54 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: develmode on, allow_foreign-src on, dpkg -i http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb, |
| 15:40.56 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# bash |
| 15:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | -sh: bash: Operation not permitted |
| 15:41.45 | javispedro | what does syslog say? |
| 15:42.31 | DocScrutinizer | maybe the SDK has some magic that build a manifest for your homegrown binary. But the alien .deb (not so alien, see URL) installs but doesn't run |
| 15:42.38 | DocScrutinizer | nuttin basically |
| 15:42.41 | javispedro | not so alien if it comes frm nokia. |
| 15:43.08 | javispedro | it is signed et all |
| 15:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | well, a bit at least... |
| 15:43.50 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122432/ |
| 15:43.57 | javispedro | I fail to see why a package with com.nokia signature would fail to run =) |
| 15:44.50 | javispedro | hum |
| 15:45.04 | javispedro | it has no credentials list |
| 15:45.22 | *** join/#maemo mer_ge (~martin@chello062178156192.9.14.tuwien.teleweb.at) |
| 15:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | no clue about that "repo" |
| 15:45.56 | DocScrutinizer | maybe it's not supposed to run on N950 |
| 15:46.06 | javispedro | t is evidently SDK |
| 15:46.10 | DocScrutinizer | I mean, it's harmatan-beta |
| 15:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | :shrug: |
| 15:46.37 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: ahh i also noticed youre not allowed to dmesg |
| 15:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | maybe I need to do the install with sth different than dpkg |
| 15:48.15 | DocScrutinizer | maybe I need to run dpkg under aegis-acme-foo-execme to give it the proper env for installing manufest or WHATEVER! --sucks-- |
| 15:48.30 | macmaN | mhm that makes sense |
| 15:48.37 | macmaN | kind of like consolekit |
| 15:48.44 | javispedro | I think I see what's going on |
| 15:48.49 | javispedro | bash is trying to setgid |
| 15:48.50 | ruskie | gah... seems to be an area wide issue with internet |
| 15:48.51 | ruskie | atm running from my eeepc hooked to n900 configured as a router ;) |
| 15:49.09 | javispedro | but why would bash try to setgid? |
| 15:49.11 | ruskie | and no not using *hotspot |
| 15:49.40 | macmaN | ruskie: i got internet sharing working through bnep0 thats pretty sweet |
| 15:49.55 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: why do you think it does? |
| 15:49.59 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBEB7F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:50.05 | javispedro | that's what credential 0::6 is. |
| 15:50.12 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 15:50.21 | DocScrutinizer | and kudos for your expertise |
| 15:50.33 | javispedro | (AIUI !! IANA Aegis designer ;) ) |
| 15:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | jr@halley:~> ls -l `which bash` |
| 15:50.50 | DocScrutinizer | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 582728 24. Okt 2009 /bin/bash |
| 15:51.16 | javispedro | ok, I found a setgid call in bash source |
| 15:51.17 | DocScrutinizer | friggin old? |
| 15:51.36 | macmaN | bash 4.1 is friggin old aint it |
| 15:52.09 | javispedro | running_setuid && privileged_mode == 0 --> calls setgid |
| 15:52.12 | javispedro | but this makes no sense.. |
| 15:52.14 | DocScrutinizer | I was happy about bash 2 on maemo5 :-) |
| 15:52.27 | javispedro | I wonder if the calls are checked statically or sth. |
| 15:52.43 | DocScrutinizer | then eventually updated to bash3 and found some moron has optimized out the help cmd |
| 15:53.25 | ruskie | hehe |
| 15:53.58 | DocScrutinizer | not that you *could not* script that |
| 15:54.47 | macmaN | so whats the verdict on aegis so far |
| 15:54.50 | macmaN | yay or nay |
| 15:54.55 | DocScrutinizer | nay |
| 15:54.57 | macmaN | :) |
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| 15:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | mega PITA |
| 15:55.10 | macmaN | its definitely sounding like symbians attempt at security |
| 15:55.12 | javispedro | macmaN: why you ask considering it as the moment disallowing Doc to run bash? |
| 15:55.24 | macmaN | pretty much killed the platform all on its own |
| 15:55.27 | javispedro | if we got to manipulate it to our liking, then maybe it stands a chance.. |
| 15:55.34 | macmaN | yeah of course |
| 15:55.43 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 15:55.59 | DocScrutinizer | though aegis will *never* stand a chance here |
| 15:56.05 | DocScrutinizer | see the wiki part of |
| 15:56.08 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 15:56.08 | infobot | methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism |
| 15:57.58 | DocScrutinizer | >>believing it will provide computer manufacturers and software authors with increased control to impose restrictions on what users are able to do with their computers. << YEAH |
| 15:58.01 | DocScrutinizer | evidently |
| 15:58.41 | DocScrutinizer | I'm root and this piece of xxxx refuses to start bash |
| 15:59.02 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer i really think you need to accept the fact that Developerz knows best whats good for you |
| 15:59.18 | DocScrutinizer | yes MASSA |
| 16:00.00 | macmaN | attaboy |
| 16:00.03 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer: seriously? |
| 16:00.14 | ruskie | the root bash thing? |
| 16:00.58 | macmaN | it'll surely be possible to boot CE on this thing anyway right |
| 16:01.22 | DocScrutinizer | >> The [...] most important benefit for Microsoft is that TC will dramatically increase the costs of switching away from Microsoft products (such as Office) to rival products (such as OpenOffice). For example, a law firm that wants to change from Office to OpenOffice right now merely has to install the software, train the staff and convert their existing files. In five years' time, once they have received TC-protected documents from perhaps |
| 16:01.24 | DocScrutinizer | a thousand different clients, they would have to get permission (in the form of signed digital certificates) from each of these clients in order to migrate their files to a new platform ...<< |
| 16:03.04 | nid0 | except, has that happened? |
| 16:03.13 | DocScrutinizer | not YET |
| 16:03.15 | nid0 | that was a doomsaying prediction from 2003. |
| 16:03.36 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@88.87.48.55) |
| 16:04.12 | DocScrutinizer | luckily until today whiners like me made "normal users" aware of the pending doom when going this TP path |
| 16:04.14 | jonwil | I think the biggest push for trusted-computing on PCs has been as a way for hardware-enforced protections on laptops and stuff |
| 16:04.41 | jonwil | e.g. laptops where the hard disks are protected and cant be accessed without the secret keys from the hardware module |
| 16:04.52 | jonwil | and without the passwords that unlock those keys |
| 16:05.10 | jonwil | intended as a way to make stolen laptops worthless |
| 16:05.24 | jonwil | any luck getting bash to run btw? |
| 16:05.40 | DocScrutinizer | alas they also make your HDD worthless when the laptop has a defect |
| 16:05.55 | macmaN | why is the deb available even in the repo if its essentially non-functioning |
| 16:05.58 | DocScrutinizer | bash? no |
| 16:06.13 | macmaN | perhaps theres something simple we just dont know after all? |
| 16:06.23 | DocScrutinizer | that's my guess |
| 16:06.41 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-09 17:39:27] <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: there's obviously a mini-howto missing on "make arbitrary .deb work" |
| 16:06.53 | macmaN | word |
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| 16:07.04 | jonwil | so is the issue bash specifically or is it "any program"? |
| 16:07.38 | javispedro | it might be bash only for all I know |
| 16:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | I have tried an random bash.deb. No mood for going thru it with any other thing |
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| 16:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | ok, let's pick sth else! |
| 16:08.26 | DocScrutinizer | suggestions please! |
| 16:08.31 | macmaN | did anyone of you try 3G tethering to the laptop through BT DUN yet? |
| 16:08.38 | DocScrutinizer | URL |
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| 16:09.31 | macmaN | id try it if i had mobile coverage here :> |
| 16:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | gimme a URL |
| 16:10.01 | DocScrutinizer | I'm depressed enough so nothing will spoil my day ;-D |
| 16:10.09 | macmaN | www.chickswithdicks.com? |
| 16:10.18 | macmaN | is confused |
| 16:10.25 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: try running bash -p |
| 16:10.41 | DocScrutinizer | where are the .deb files there? ;-P only deboras |
| 16:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | ok |
| 16:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | that's easy |
| 16:11.11 | javispedro | but it'll probably fail.. |
| 16:11.25 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# bash -p |
| 16:11.26 | DocScrutinizer | -sh: bash: Operation not permitted |
| 16:11.34 | javispedro | syslog says same thing as before? |
| 16:12.00 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
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| 16:14.10 | DocScrutinizer | btw I get the feeling this maemo-meego chimera is poisoning #maemo, tmo (who cares), and probably also FMC, and #meego(?) |
| 16:14.30 | DocScrutinizer | nowhere at home |
| 16:14.34 | javispedro | ponders if there's a cmdlet to manipulate linux capabilities around |
| 16:14.39 | DocScrutinizer | we'd need own channels :-/ |
| 16:15.03 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: been wondering the same thing, major internal conflicts around that :> |
| 16:15.36 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis aegis-constrain aegis-deb-util aegis-install-journal aegis-preinst-hook aegis-deb-add aegis-developer-mode aegis-loader aegis-session aegis-deb-info aegis-exec aegis-origin aegis-unload aegis-deb-release aegis-fixup aegis-postinst-hook aegisfs |
| 16:15.48 | DocScrutinizer | (tabtab) |
| 16:15.57 | javispedro | so, the issue AIUI is that aegis finds that CAP_SETGID is in ether the process effective or permitted linux capabilities set |
| 16:15.58 | macmaN | good thinking |
| 16:16.13 | macmaN | aegis-exec dpkg -i? |
| 16:16.19 | javispedro | but the bash package does not specify it requires CAP_SETGID. |
| 16:17.10 | DocScrutinizer | which would defeat any purpose of aegis-exec dpkg -i |
| 16:17.44 | DocScrutinizer | should I purge that package prior to trying reinstalling it? |
| 16:18.24 | macmaN | couldnt hurt |
| 16:18.52 | DocScrutinizer | (noob here, hints welcome) |
| 16:18.57 | javispedro | what does "aegis-exec -a CAP::setgid -a CAP::setuid bash" do? |
| 16:19.28 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-exec -a CAP::setgid -a CAP::setuid bash |
| 16:19.30 | DocScrutinizer | bash: Operation not permitted |
| 16:19.35 | javispedro | and syslog? |
| 16:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHA and a reboot |
| 16:20.03 | macmaN | :) |
| 16:20.09 | javispedro | a reboot? lol |
| 16:20.10 | macmaN | that *is* funny |
| 16:21.00 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, fmc hasn't had as much activity in its whole life as its had the past few weeks. |
| 16:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | DEVICE IS MALFUNCTIONING! bla bla bla... >Security problem (aegis-exec): /bin/bash< |
| 16:21.38 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: is your house insured? could be some mission impossible type self-destruct shit going on |
| 16:22.12 | DocScrutinizer | looks like, it suggests reflashing, and contacting service if that doesn't help |
| 16:22.31 | javispedro | is it bricked? |
| 16:22.35 | javispedro | or what? |
| 16:22.47 | *** join/#maemo kama (~kama@unaffiliated/kama) |
| 16:23.02 | DocScrutinizer | well, it needed 8s hard shutoff at least |
| 16:23.12 | DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA bricked |
| 16:23.26 | javispedro | :S |
| 16:23.36 | macmaN | lol whats it doing on reboot? |
| 16:23.46 | DocScrutinizer | DEVICE IS MALFUNCTIONING! bla bla bla... >Security problem (aegis-exec): /bin/bash< |
| 16:23.48 | macmaN | set up a live ustream or whatnot |
| 16:23.50 | aslani | i hope you can stil reflash it |
| 16:24.04 | aslani | *still |
| 16:24.26 | javispedro | fails to understand what is going on... is that a UI messagebox? on syslog? on console with ugly letters on top of UI? |
| 16:25.00 | jonwil | so have you bricked your N950? |
| 16:25.07 | jonwil | If so, sucks to be you :P |
| 16:25.22 | macmaN | i dont think it can be known for sure yet |
| 16:25.48 | nid0 | wheres that exec coming from, did you add loading bash to init? |
| 16:26.07 | aslani | My N950 got into bootloop last week and after battery died could not turn it on, flasher did the trick for me |
| 16:26.12 | aslani | so try that |
| 16:26.47 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:26.49 | aslani | also, your ovi account probably wont work on that device after that :p |
| 16:29.19 | DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10170 |
| 16:29.47 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: and no way to reboot out of it? |
| 16:30.00 | DocScrutinizer | aslani: my ovi account never worked |
| 16:30.05 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: nope |
| 16:30.13 | javispedro | sighs |
| 16:30.14 | DocScrutinizer | that's first and last thing |
| 16:30.15 | aslani | heh, right |
| 16:30.47 | aslani | time to screw the battery out? |
| 16:30.50 | nid0 | you set it to load bash on boot? |
| 16:30.54 | aslani | take photos as well |
| 16:31.08 | achipa | a little bit of Components trollin': http://achipa.blogspot.com/2011/07/qt-components-story-of-ugly-qwidgetling.html |
| 16:32.21 | jonwil | remind me not to buy/use a N9(50) if this aegis crap is still there |
| 16:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 |
| 16:34.03 | ruskie | jonwil: same |
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| 16:34.56 | javispedro | now feels complete, he has bricked someone else's device ! =) |
| 16:36.01 | DocScrutinizer | hey, I'd have done the same if I'd have bothered to look what aegis-exec --help says |
| 16:36.44 | javispedro | harmattan flasher is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php here |
| 16:36.52 | javispedro | but dunno about image to flash.. |
| 16:38.18 | DocScrutinizer | I'd say this rootfs needs a bit of love still, act_dead works |
| 16:38.27 | aslani | http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html |
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| 16:38.45 | javispedro | aslani: thank god. |
| 16:39.16 | aslani | javispedro: I've done it once already (: |
| 16:40.44 | DocScrutinizer | oooh great, two flavours of .deb |
| 16:40.53 | DocScrutinizer | but no tarball |
| 16:42.09 | javispedro | so, while on the topic of bricking devices, another good test would be to write 0 to /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enable and /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enforce and /sys/kernel/security/validator/enable |
| 16:42.23 | javispedro | but if a plain aegis-exec bricked the device, disabling it would... |
| 16:43.20 | javispedro | end the universe. or something like that involving black clouds and thunderstorms. |
| 16:43.31 | javispedro | is worried. |
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| 16:44.55 | CaCO3 | Note to myself: never type agais in a terminal |
| 16:45.04 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: get the one from the link aslani provided ,seems to be shell archive |
| 16:45.16 | achipa | it overloads the LHC and creates a black hole |
| 16:45.27 | CaCO3 | COOOOOL |
| 16:45.44 | achipa | in a weird turn of events rm -rf / has similar effects |
| 16:45.57 | achipa | except that is somewhat more known to cause trouble |
| 16:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: already had it, but I'm feeling like going out for a walk now |
| 16:47.30 | javispedro | ponders: if even with aegis in fullenforce mode root can brick the device, what's the point of not allowing root the rest of capabilities? |
| 16:48.08 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: ah well, for the better and sorry for the nuisance :) |
| 16:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: meh, your help always been and still is appreciated. Not your fault |
| 16:49.15 | javispedro | (if aegis decided to selfdestruct that means I was on the good track =) ) |
| 16:49.33 | DocScrutinizer | indeed :-D |
| 16:52.33 | DocScrutinizer | lovely: >>4) When you connect the cable, the device switches on automatically and the magical flashing sequence starts.<< |
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| 16:53.37 | javispedro | ponders which component prints that security msg thing |
| 16:53.59 | DocScrutinizer | for now the magical "Extracting files ..." seems to take a while and probably won't have any other effect than bricking my PC as well, due to filling up the rare space on rootfs |
| 16:55.04 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122435/ |
| 16:55.08 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 16:56.05 | javispedro | now patiently waits for the device to end flash, reboot and go back into the same screen because the _ILLEGAL security violation_ has been recorded in permanent ROM |
| 16:56.57 | javispedro | so, tell us how it when ASAP :S |
| 16:57.20 | DocScrutinizer | away a while... |
| 16:58.10 | aslani | it took me about 30-40 minutes |
| 16:58.26 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 16:58.29 | DocScrutinizer | bbl |
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| 17:02.20 | javispedro | seems that aegis is ased on this: http://disec.sourceforge.net/ |
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| 17:14.51 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/122437/ |
| 17:14.54 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 17:15.10 | DocScrutinizer | boots "verify your settings" |
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| 17:17.09 | DocScrutinizer | ok, what else could we do tobrickit? |
| 17:17.55 | javispedro | <javispedro> so, while on the topic of bricking devices, another good test would be to write 0 to /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enable and /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enforce and /sys/kernel/security/validator/enable ;) |
| 17:18.12 | javispedro | but I wouldn't reflash it more than once a day ;) |
| 17:18.16 | DocScrutinizer | too late, powered it down, off for dinner |
| 17:18.23 | javispedro | heh, good to know it worked though. |
| 17:18.49 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 17:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | and good to know you found the first capital bug in aegis |
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| 17:20.06 | DocScrutinizer | thank you aegis for protecting me from that rogue bash pkg, which potentially might have messed up all my valuable data |
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| 18:19.15 | macmaN | looks like you guys did good here while i was having dinner |
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| 18:31.55 | alterego | Yay, got Qt app running on Symbian (N8) :D |
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| 18:34.29 | lcuk | alterego, ditto |
| 18:36.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | got a N950 killed and resur... err reflahed |
| 18:37.38 | dm8tbr | what did you do to the poor thing? :) |
| 18:38.53 | alterego | He was trying to disable aegis I imagine ;) |
| 18:41.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | on soviet harmattan aegis deactivates you |
| 18:42.11 | alterego | wanders off |
| 18:44.02 | javispedro | alterego: I suggest you read the logs, it's been fun =) |
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| 18:46.36 | orangey | hello all |
| 18:46.43 | orangey | I'm trying to figure out where localizations are kept. |
| 18:47.41 | orangey | Here's what I've done: I've made it so that the SIP IM package also draws from the "TEL" string by adding that to the SIP profile in /usr/share/osso-rtcom/ . However, it now shows up in my contacts are as "addr_bd_content_starter" instead of "SIP IM". |
| 18:47.47 | orangey | I'm guessing there's a file somewhere that holds all these strings |
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| 19:16.18 | DocScrutinizer | search for a huuuuge (~20+ MB) file somewhere next to /usr/share/locale |
| 19:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | this addr_bd_content_starter (commonly known as tanna_fi_foobar) is a special "hack" of Nokia to make their translators happy - a thing you usually find better methods for |
| 19:19.54 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:20.39 | GeneralAntilles | All sorts of people adding me to Google+ who I don't recognize at all. |
| 19:20.44 | GeneralAntilles | Wish they had nicknames on there. |
| 19:20.50 | DocScrutinizer | the consequence is that with LANG=C all genuine Nokia apps have these fubar strings instead of a normal english |
| 19:21.07 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: haha |
| 19:21.29 | macmaN | GeneralAntilles: frck all these centralized data silos, lockerproject or some other decentralized comm system is the only one i will be connecting to next |
| 19:22.31 | macmaN | heh itll be pretty funny whatll happen if a good enough FOSS decentralized p2p thing comes up. facebook better start paying me to get access and provide ads etc |
| 19:22.35 | *** join/#maemo liar (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 19:22.38 | DocScrutinizer | macmaN: lockerproject? |
| 19:22.48 | macmaN | google it |
| 19:23.27 | macmaN | theyre all pretty young still. i think that ruby thing is the best known. diaspora or whatnot. |
| 19:24.09 | DocScrutinizer | skype for facebook nerds? |
| 19:24.36 | macmaN | i guess, just leave evil binary blobs out of the equation |
| 19:24.44 | macmaN | how many ways are there to do p2p? |
| 19:25.00 | DocScrutinizer | prolly 1.3 |
| 19:25.12 | *** join/#maemo divan (~divan@89.209.253.77) |
| 19:25.31 | GeneralAntilles | macmaN, yeah, it's nasty. |
| 19:25.53 | divan | hi all. Have you seen the comparsion of n950 and other phones, including N900? Really nice photos! http://hi-tech.mail.ru/photo/review/Nokia_N9-prev.html?62 |
| 19:25.55 | DocScrutinizer | glares at this aegis coffin |
| 19:26.09 | macmaN | :) |
| 19:26.26 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: how old r u |
| 19:26.40 | DocScrutinizer | too old for that kinda fun |
| 19:26.45 | macmaN | hehe |
| 19:26.54 | macmaN | just wondering why havent you picked up a glass of wine yet |
| 19:27.09 | DocScrutinizer | how'd you know I didn't |
| 19:27.13 | macmaN | and told the coffin to frck off |
| 19:27.35 | macmaN | hmm true i dont know that |
| 19:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | just ponders something like that, for ~4s |
| 19:28.48 | DocScrutinizer | then I'd consider it extremely embarrassing to capitulate on a TC platform |
| 19:29.05 | ruskie | hehe |
| 19:29.11 | macmaN | true dat |
| 19:29.25 | macmaN | i like the warrior spirit |
| 19:29.52 | DocScrutinizer | it's what made h-e-n a reality |
| 19:30.54 | DocScrutinizer | well, then OTOH I was absolutely sure I could do hostmode. Most of the time, except some extraordinary dark days |
| 19:31.30 | *** join/#maemo c2pLaY (~yep@S01060026f3c71ae8.cg.shawcable.net) |
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| 19:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | I'm quite sure though you can't win fighting a properly implemented chain-of-trust architecture |
| 19:32.00 | macmaN | or it's not worth the time |
| 19:32.06 | nox- | i wonder if it was more open and elop forced to close it... </paranoia> |
| 19:32.16 | macmaN | i doubt that one |
| 19:32.25 | macmaN | i dont think elop has a clue whats inside this n950 |
| 19:32.37 | DocScrutinizer | you just can prod and pester the minister of keys to hand out enough to make your life bearable |
| 19:32.47 | nox- | no i mean n950 generally not this one particularly |
| 19:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: I bet it was more closed in the very beginning |
| 19:33.29 | nox- | mh |
| 19:33.47 | DocScrutinizer | and trollop doesn't even understand what's harmattan |
| 19:33.59 | nox- | one reason i got the n900 was i wouldnt need to `jailbreak' it... |
| 19:34.12 | nox- | that may be true tho |
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| 19:35.42 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 19:36.06 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, how nasty is it? |
| 19:36.18 | nox- | he cant even run bash yet... |
| 19:36.27 | GeneralAntilles | Eh, meh. |
| 19:36.43 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: this photo is worth a thousand words... http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10170 |
| 19:36.53 | pavin | me on terrace of my building wondering why gps doesnt work |
| 19:37.13 | javispedro | I bet we are going to see that warning icon a lot of times.. |
| 19:37.22 | GeneralAntilles | Ugh |
| 19:37.27 | macmaN | pavin: i cant sign into nokia accounts thats why mine doesnt work |
| 19:37.36 | GeneralAntilles | Well, I kinda get it though |
| 19:37.38 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: they mean what they write |
| 19:37.50 | DocScrutinizer | luckily flashing went smooth |
| 19:37.54 | GeneralAntilles | What if somebody downloads a deb that replaces the shell with some nasty shit that forwards everything to troll.ru? |
| 19:38.28 | GeneralAntilles | That's not an unreasonable sort of job for a security framework to prevent. |
| 19:38.40 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, better nuke my data than forward it to troll.ru |
| 19:38.42 | GeneralAntilles | I guess it ultimately comes down to how you get around it when you know what you're doing. |
| 19:38.55 | nox- | true |
| 19:39.04 | javispedro | yes. |
| 19:39.15 | javispedro | but so far our attempts in that have result in Doc having to reflash his n950 =) |
| 19:39.25 | GeneralAntilles | I'm not going to try to claim Nokia had the user's best interests as the primary thing in their heart when they wrote the requirements. |
| 19:39.35 | GeneralAntilles | But, well, there ARE shades of gray here. |
| 19:39.51 | DocScrutinizer | a few |
| 19:40.08 | DocScrutinizer | like found in every sack of charcoal |
| 19:40.21 | GeneralAntilles | I guess the other question here is: What would be a reasonable recovery mode? |
| 19:40.25 | GeneralAntilles | Short of nuking the device. |
| 19:40.33 | pavin | macmaN disabling nokia network will help get gps ?? |
| 19:40.34 | DocScrutinizer | none |
| 19:40.59 | macmaN | "disabling nokia network" how is that an understandable sentence? |
| 19:41.01 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, on the implementation side for Nokia. |
| 19:41.31 | GeneralAntilles | Couldn't they keep a clean image available for the system stuff? |
| 19:41.35 | GeneralAntilles | Recovery mode boot. |
| 19:42.12 | nox- | .oO(nuking the device can also happen by using ms exchange...) |
| 19:42.16 | DocScrutinizer | effectively javispedro made aegis bend over, and a reboot with locking the device was last resort. Though it's a ridiculous effort, given I was even able to c&p and enter another CR before the reboot took place. Aeons for any malware to intercept whatever they like |
| 19:42.51 | javispedro | this makes me thing though that it wasn't what we did that caused the reboot |
| 19:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes feels an urge to "disable nokia network" ;-P |
| 19:43.17 | GeneralAntilles | Keep in mind this is the w22 image, too. |
| 19:43.27 | CaCO3 | who is the current Debmaster? The Extras Assistant seems to be broken |
| 19:43.30 | GeneralAntilles | Given there were "over 3000 bugs fixed" |
| 19:43.33 | pavin | I mean in location settings there is an option to disable network possitioning |
| 19:43.36 | javispedro | come to think of it |
| 19:43.37 | GeneralAntilles | CaCO3, X-Fade question. |
| 19:43.41 | macmaN | yeah i for one cant wait for a fresher image |
| 19:43.47 | GeneralAntilles | CaCO3, pinging Bugzilla may be useful. |
| 19:43.54 | *** join/#maemo pauly (6c0f31ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.15.49.206) |
| 19:44.03 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: actually a funny question |
| 19:44.03 | javispedro | generic kernel panic -> /bin/bash corrupted cause it was on cache -> panic on reboot when aegis checks digsig |
| 19:44.39 | pavin | agps needs some kind of help to quick start |
| 19:44.51 | macmaN | pavin: no you cant disable this sign in thing |
| 19:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: quite possible |
| 19:46.29 | pavin | ohh isnt there an alternate service ? |
| 19:46.41 | CaCO3 | GeneralAntilles: thx |
| 19:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | idly wonders what they did with shell escape in less |
| 19:47.06 | javispedro | this osc stuff is stupid |
| 19:47.18 | ruskie | ? |
| 19:47.26 | javispedro | I had to dig in src code to decipher "this is not a project working copy" error message. |
| 19:47.47 | javispedro | some commands work inside what he calls "project" working copies, and others in what he calls "package" working copies |
| 19:48.30 | javispedro | (project = osc co home:$USER) (package = osc co home:$USER $PACKAGE) |
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| 19:56.47 | GeneralAntilles | "he"? |
| 19:57.44 | javispedro | okkkkkkkkkk |
| 19:57.54 | javispedro | s/he/it/g |
| 19:59.18 | javispedro | the first step one always has to do when starting a long battle is to anthropomorphize his enemy. =) |
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| 20:00.43 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, "they"? |
| 20:02.11 | javispedro | dunno there. |
| 20:03.04 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, the pronoun you're looking for is "they". :P |
| 20:03.28 | javispedro | I was thinking on the osc program itself though |
| 20:03.40 | *** join/#maemo pauly_ (6c0f31ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.15.49.206) |
| 20:05.16 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, right. |
| 20:05.20 | GeneralAntilles | Well, it. |
| 20:08.19 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178211064.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:13.05 | DocScrutinizer | wtf osc |
| 20:13.23 | DocScrutinizer | on screen chaos? |
| 20:14.19 | javispedro | the opensuse build service command client |
| 20:14.23 | javispedro | *command line |
| 20:14.33 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 20:14.36 | DocScrutinizer | oooohnoes, I guess it's along opensuse builder |
| 20:14.44 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 20:14.46 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
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| 20:27.15 | javispedro | "The build root needs packages from project 'Maemo.org:MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan'. |
| 20:27.15 | javispedro | Note that malicious packages blablabla..." |
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| 20:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | n950 screenshots, anybody a clue? |
| 20:39.19 | frals | DocScrutinizer: do you have widgetsgallery installed? |
| 20:39.23 | DocScrutinizer | ctr-shift-P? |
| 20:39.42 | DocScrutinizer | scren is funny flashing on ctrl-shift-P |
| 20:40.11 | DocScrutinizer | must be it -brilliant intuitive effect |
| 20:40.32 | DocScrutinizer | flashlight alike fade-to-white and back |
| 20:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | frals: dunno |
| 20:41.13 | DocScrutinizer | what'S that? aaah this abomination... yes |
| 20:41.20 | DocScrutinizer | 3 of them |
| 20:41.22 | frals | it has a tool for screenshots at least |
| 20:41.36 | frals | but if ctrl shift p works thats good ;) |
| 20:42.07 | DocScrutinizer | QMLcomp... QMLcomp... widgets Ga... |
| 20:42.24 | DocScrutinizer | NFC what's Boosted WG |
| 20:43.03 | DocScrutinizer | actually I need screenshot to document the abysmal butt ugly datepicker of QML |
| 20:43.48 | MohammadAG | QML has a date picker? |
| 20:44.17 | DocScrutinizer | I bet screenshots fail in QMLcomp...app - no flashlight effect |
| 20:44.32 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: slotmachine :-( |
| 20:44.57 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I don't think QML has standard anything |
| 20:45.20 | DocScrutinizer | MEH!!! in gallery is only the applauncher icon zoo screen |
| 20:45.30 | frals | DocScrutinizer: use widgetsgallery -> debug tools -> screen shot or smth like that |
| 20:46.55 | DocScrutinizer | what's widgetsgallery? has it a different pretty name? |
| 20:47.07 | frals | "widgets Ga..." |
| 20:48.07 | DocScrutinizer | boosted WG |
| 20:48.19 | DocScrutinizer | aaah widgets ga... |
| 20:48.33 | DocScrutinizer | same icon like boosted wg |
| 20:48.41 | *** join/#maemo wam (~wam@unaffiliated/wam) |
| 20:49.58 | DocScrutinizer | thanks frals |
| 20:50.10 | frals | np |
| 20:51.34 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 20:52.10 | *** join/#maemo vdv (~vdv@ip-109-40-65-177.web.vodafone.de) |
| 20:56.54 | vdv | is there any os except nitdroid and meego which can be installed on n900? |
| 20:58.12 | DocScrutinizer | SHR |
| 21:00.32 | vdv | DocScrutinizer, thanks, i'll look at it |
| 21:00.55 | DocScrutinizer | /join #openmoko-cdevel |
| 21:01.00 | DocScrutinizer | see /topic |
| 21:01.20 | GeneralAntilles | Damn errant pings. |
| 21:01.33 | DocScrutinizer | eh? |
| 21:01.37 | GeneralAntilles | frals, can you go mess up the people in the DDP shipping office, please? |
| 21:01.46 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, "Widgets _GA_" |
| 21:01.46 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 21:01.55 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA |
| 21:02.22 | frals | GeneralAntilles: dunno whos doing that, sorry ;) |
| 21:02.29 | gri_ | I can still order a second n950 |
| 21:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | I bet this drives you ga-ga |
| 21:02.40 | GeneralAntilles | frals, liar. |
| 21:02.43 | GeneralAntilles | It's YOU isn't it?! |
| 21:03.40 | *** join/#maemo ProfPutz (~ProfPutz@p54866554.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:04.03 | DocScrutinizer | ARRRGH wlan settings flashed dead |
| 21:08.28 | DocScrutinizer | ARRGH pubkey nuked |
| 21:09.54 | ProfPutz | you are a fucking coward doc |
| 21:10.24 | ProfPutz | Angs |
| 21:10.28 | ProfPutz | Angst |
| 21:10.33 | ProfPutz | Mama mama |
| 21:10.49 | ProfPutz | You are a little worm |
| 21:11.24 | ProfPutz | So shut the fuck up or i will make you |
| 21:13.10 | GeneralAntilles | That's cool. |
| 21:17.35 | divan | I've tested three different screencast methods (vnc, x11grab/ffmpeg and tv-tuner). The tv-tuner is obviously best, here is video example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meTeTCSuCcc (or http://vimeo.com/26208659). It was recorded using vlc and AverMedia TV tuner. |
| 21:18.20 | divan | Is there any wiki page on n900 screencasting? |
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| 21:21.03 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
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| 21:22.21 | DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10174?sort=4 date/timepickers |
| 21:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | obsolete but nice vs modern unusable butt-ugly |
| 21:23.42 | DocScrutinizer | what a stupid brain donator is that? |
| 21:23.48 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 21:23.58 | *** mode/#maemo [+b ProfPutz!*@*] by DocScrutinizer |
| 21:23.59 | *** kick/#maemo [ProfPutz!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 21:24.30 | javispedro | btw, my n950 is already at the dhl airport warehouse |
| 21:24.47 | javispedro | was considering going there and pestering whoever was there, but sadly I have some work. |
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| 21:29.23 | DocScrutinizer | profputz == pupnick on gasoline? |
| 21:30.06 | javispedro | hey |
| 21:30.19 | javispedro | he wasn't that bad :) |
| 21:30.47 | DocScrutinizer | no but similar when in his worst mood -IP resolves to Frankfurt |
| 21:31.19 | DocScrutinizer | I know pupnik lives in Frankfurt |
| 21:33.49 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:34.22 | DocScrutinizer | esp the diction - though german now . is amazing similar, from "sentence" to "sentence" |
| 21:35.06 | DocScrutinizer | next time I will throw a pupnik bait ;-) |
| 21:37.23 | GeneralAntilles | Stay away from the dark liquor kids. |
| 21:37.32 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 21:37.49 | DocScrutinizer | esp when it smells a bit like gasoline |
| 21:41.20 | DocScrutinizer | now that's been a day... one selfkick one kick one kickban one kline-revert one brick&flash |
| 21:41.45 | DocScrutinizer | plus a lot of "fun" |
| 21:43.57 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (already in warehouse) I offer you to test another few nifty ways to brick mine - til when it's monday in your TZ :) |
| 21:44.46 | DocScrutinizer | just did a ssh-copy-id ;-D |
| 21:45.52 | vdv | is it safe to uninstall U-boot? will maemo boot then correctly? |
| 21:46.12 | vdv | i've installed U-boot because of meego |
| 21:46.38 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (~Atarii@77.107.156.213) |
| 21:46.51 | DocScrutinizer | you can't install uBoot - you'll always install a kernel with integrated uBoot |
| 21:47.24 | vdv | ok, i've installed U-boot PR1.3 package from repo |
| 21:47.47 | DocScrutinizer | and it's striongly deprecated to uninstall kernels (and on this behalf, uBoot) - you need to *install* a kernel without uBoot |
| 21:48.33 | DocScrutinizer | analog to "unisntalling" powerkernel being a really stupid idea |
| 21:48.42 | vdv | what happens if i install now nitdroid? |
| 21:48.49 | vdv | with it's "autoinstaller" |
| 21:49.18 | vdv | will it overwrite "u-booted kernel"? |
| 21:50.00 | DocScrutinizer | nitdroid uses multiboot which is a completely different conflicting dirty hack |
| 21:50.29 | vdv | i.e. i should first install normal kernel, and only then nitdroid? |
| 21:50.32 | DocScrutinizer | and yes, it probably will overwrite uBoot(-kernel) as it flashes a "new" kernel on every boot |
| 21:51.06 | vdv | oh |
| 21:51.26 | DocScrutinizer | uBoot and multiboot don't play together OOTB. But please check this on a multiboot or android thread, in tmo |
| 21:51.37 | vdv | i hate meego, it's completely useless |
| 21:51.55 | vdv | think nitdroid too |
| 21:54.19 | DocScrutinizer | you'll talk different when something (e.g multiboot/nitdroid) has messed up your rootfs so you can't boot maemo anymore, but for a lucky incidance the kernel incl uBoot is intact and allows boot of meego, so you can fix maemo rootfs from "outside" |
| 21:54.56 | DocScrutinizer | alas multiboot has the annoying habit to ruin kernels as well, not only rootfs |
| 21:55.26 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | still you may be able to boot a working meego on a MMC card, via flasher ramload |
| 21:56.22 | DocScrutinizer | but that's of limited use then, as the mess multiboot creates is fubar |
| 21:56.30 | DocScrutinizer | ergo -> reflash anyway |
| 21:56.42 | *** join/#maemo Trizt (nobody@h-168-17.a192.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 22:00.35 | javispedro | when X-Fade mentioned that building on OBS currently causes tons of warnings, which warnings was he talking about? Want to bet? =) |
| 22:00.35 | DocScrutinizer | umm, where's some backup app on that thing? |
| 22:01.34 | javispedro | no bets? |
| 22:01.45 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@ozhhitn7xa.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 22:01.58 | javispedro | well, of course, the warning that is repeated a bazillion times is "No AEGIS_HASH_FDSâenvironment" |
| 22:02.01 | javispedro | all hail aegis! |
| 22:02.13 | MohammadAG | it's been over 9 months since I had a bootloop |
| 22:02.22 | MohammadAG | but thanks to kernel-power v48, I can feel like a noob again |
| 22:02.48 | *** join/#maemo kama (~kama@unaffiliated/kama) |
| 22:03.38 | MohammadAG | where's that PR1.3 omap1 binary again |
| 22:03.38 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: o.O |
| 22:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | wtf |
| 22:04.32 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: what's your overall impression right now? |
| 22:04.37 | Corsac | (both on hw and sw) |
| 22:04.57 | MohammadAG | Aegis rocks, obviously |
| 22:05.14 | *** join/#maemo bugzy_ (~bugzy@adsl-99-106-246-251.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:05.48 | DocScrutinizer | c-ts is a royal PITA that often refuses to work for no clear reason (found operating the device without "electrical closed loop" via other hand usually fails) |
| 22:06.22 | javispedro | uh. |
| 22:06.25 | DocScrutinizer | the GUI is amazingly well designed and consistent |
| 22:06.39 | DocScrutinizer | CPU et all fast like hell |
| 22:06.51 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, "notes" app, try writint "test" 10 times, no correcting self allowed. How any successful? |
| 22:06.53 | MohammadAG | TP module works well |
| 22:07.03 | DocScrutinizer | aegis is a complete showstopper |
| 22:07.15 | DocScrutinizer | as expected |
| 22:07.23 | MohammadAG | figured out open mode yet? |
| 22:07.27 | MohammadAG | tried the new flasher? |
| 22:07.46 | DocScrutinizer | might mitigate when some guru bothers to write a mini-howto |
| 22:07.53 | javispedro | I bet that the way to enter open mode is to just build a new kernel without aegis ;) |
| 22:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ??? |
| 22:07.57 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:08.15 | MohammadAG | flasher-3.6 I think |
| 22:08.34 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: the device of course *is* in developer mode, aka "as open as it gets" |
| 22:08.45 | MohammadAG | no |
| 22:08.54 | MohammadAG | Closed -> Developer -> Open |
| 22:08.57 | GeneralAntilles | ^ |
| 22:08.59 | MohammadAG | with open being the most open |
| 22:09.03 | DocScrutinizer | used one-click-flasher as I didn't feel like extracting the image from that blob |
| 22:09.12 | orangey | DocScrutinizer: Thank you for your help. Searching now |
| 22:09.26 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, flasher has a shitload of new options |
| 22:09.33 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 22:09.48 | javispedro | purging aegis from the kernel seems trivial =) |
| 22:09.51 | ShadowJK | so it's show-stopped in developer mode too? |
| 22:10.02 | DocScrutinizer | I obviously don't need a single one of them, also didn't find any tarball of any flasher, just .deb |
| 22:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | yep, ShadowJK - definitely |
| 22:10.27 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23200&postcount=181 |
| 22:10.28 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: read chanlog of this day, for lulz |
| 22:10.37 | GeneralAntilles | Devmode is just for root, etc. |
| 22:10.41 | GeneralAntilles | Not for disabling aegis. |
| 22:10.43 | GeneralAntilles | That's open mode |
| 22:10.46 | GeneralAntilles | No idea how to enable it, though. |
| 22:10.50 | MohammadAG | developer mode is just a metapackage |
| 22:11.43 | javispedro | obs is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow |
| 22:11.51 | javispedro | being under qemu sure takes its hit |
| 22:11.58 | DocScrutinizer | frals suggested a echo 0>foo; echo 0>bar; reboot |
| 22:12.04 | javispedro | oh |
| 22:12.18 | DocScrutinizer | and meant "but that for sure will brick *your* devices" |
| 22:12.28 | *** join/#maemo jevin (~jevin@ec2-174-129-222-35.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
| 22:12.39 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: so the assertion that running an untrusted binary would automagically switch to open mode was just plain wrong |
| 22:12.48 | MohammadAG | foo and bar are obviously outside sysfs though right? |
| 22:13.10 | javispedro | MohammadAG: yes, they where in /etc |
| 22:13.21 | javispedro | securityfs has some enforce and enable tunables |
| 22:13.33 | DocScrutinizer | Corsac: running it will implicitly mean switching to tainted mode. the point is you can't run it that simply |
| 22:13.40 | javispedro | but from reading the source they're probably locked. |
| 22:13.58 | MohammadAG | open mode should get you into a bootable state DocScrutinizer |
| 22:14.09 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 22:14.14 | MohammadAG | I'm leaving on Monday btw |
| 22:14.25 | MohammadAG | so will probably get my N950 after all of you |
| 22:14.25 | DocScrutinizer | my device *is* in a bootable state right now |
| 22:14.29 | ShadowJK | was browsing internet boutiques for android+qwerty today. htc desire z, and a samsung something. Unfortunately specs dont say if bootloader is locked or not :/ |
| 22:14.29 | javispedro | bon voyage MohammadAG . |
| 22:14.34 | MohammadAG | but it's not open DocScrutinizer |
| 22:14.43 | DocScrutinizer | tell that aegis |
| 22:14.49 | MohammadAG | merci javispedro |
| 22:14.55 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, it's been too much today |
| 22:15.20 | javispedro | omg omh |
| 22:15.23 | javispedro | my first OBS build! |
| 22:15.26 | DocScrutinizer | and you're free to suggest another funny method to brick that aegis coffin |
| 22:15.40 | MohammadAG | dpkg -r aegis* |
| 22:15.43 | GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, most are. |
| 22:15.54 | ShadowJK | :( |
| 22:15.57 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: but what exactly aegis prevents you to do? |
| 22:16.00 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, samsung galaxy SII isn't |
| 22:16.06 | DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 |
| 22:16.10 | DocScrutinizer | read canlog |
| 22:16.11 | ShadowJK | MohammadAG, is that qwerty |
| 22:16.12 | MohammadAG | actually, I think all sammy phones are unlocked |
| 22:16.16 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, no |
| 22:16.24 | ShadowJK | disqualified :) |
| 22:16.30 | MohammadAG | HTC started unlocking their phones |
| 22:16.32 | nid0 | droid 3's the qwerty im currently liking the most tbh |
| 22:16.40 | ShadowJK | need hwkeyboard |
| 22:16.51 | ShadowJK | can't gewt droid 3 |
| 22:16.54 | DocScrutinizer | Corsac: ok one last time, I installed a NOKIA(!) bash.deb, and it wasn't startable |
| 22:17.00 | ShadowJK | droid2 is available though |
| 22:17.11 | GeneralAntilles | Locked bootloader. |
| 22:17.16 | ShadowJK | bah |
| 22:17.24 | GeneralAntilles | Besides, it's Android. :< |
| 22:17.25 | MohammadAG | Motorola are a no no |
| 22:17.30 | ShadowJK | So there's like no phones at all anymore |
| 22:17.30 | nid0 | droid3 is quite probably going to get it's bootloader unlocked |
| 22:17.33 | MohammadAG | Motorolas* |
| 22:17.48 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, that's why I'm getting the N9 |
| 22:18.01 | DocScrutinizer | nid0: there's many ways to kill the cat |
| 22:18.03 | ShadowJK | But I can't type stuff on n9 |
| 22:18.03 | MohammadAG | hardware keyboards are probably gone for good |
| 22:18.22 | DocScrutinizer | unlocked BL is fine when you want to run an ALL NEW OS |
| 22:18.24 | javispedro | MohammadAG: give it five years and they will make a comeback. |
| 22:18.41 | MohammadAG | javispedro, only when the iPhone 9 has it |
| 22:18.41 | Trizt | MohammadAG; you getting an n9 too? first n950 and now one more... darn |
| 22:19.00 | MohammadAG | Trizt, probably out of my own money |
| 22:19.01 | DocScrutinizer | nid0: as the old OS may refuse to work when you change just one byte in kernel, a lib, a file in /etc, whatever |
| 22:19.02 | nid0 | tbh, moto still at least get the keyboard thing |
| 22:19.18 | nid0 | droid 3's first slider i've ever seen with the right number of keyboard rows |
| 22:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | nid0: even with an "unlocked" bootloader like the one on N950 |
| 22:19.48 | nid0 | DocScrutinizer: fact remains though ShadowJK wants an unlocked bootloader, and moto will be unlocking theirs as of the autumn :) |
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| 22:21.18 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 22:21.20 | DocScrutinizer | fine |
| 22:21.39 | Trizt | MohammadAG; okey. You got the n950 yet or you have to wait for it? Did myself think of the n9, but at the moment it will be out of my budget |
| 22:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | then you finally can install another android build than that shipped by moto |
| 22:22.07 | DocScrutinizer | cyanogen or whatever the name |
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| 22:22.15 | MohammadAG | I got it in the sense that I was accepted |
| 22:22.23 | DocScrutinizer | and if that distro works then OK |
| 22:22.38 | nid0 | well, I think tbh a lot of people crying for unlocked bootloaders want an updated do-anything platform like the hd2 |
| 22:22.51 | DocScrutinizer | when meegoCE finally works on N950 then I'm happy - unless it also comes with aegis |
| 22:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | (which will never really fly as Nokia won't sign the community builds of kernel every day) |
| 22:24.36 | ShadowJK | even if they one day solve the problem of typing on touchscreens, there'll still be the issue of smaller screenspace :/ |
| 22:24.40 | DocScrutinizer | fact is that for now harmattan is the most locked down maemo ever, no matter how much of the source may be open |
| 22:25.13 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: aegis doesn't need nokia, and in fact, it was proposed as the meego security framework |
| 22:26.10 | javispedro | (I now realize that's what mssf probably means =) ) |
| 22:26.42 | DocScrutinizer | then Nokia has to roll out a bit in bootprocess that breaks the chain of trust, by verifying signature of a publicly known private-key |
| 22:26.56 | javispedro | the question still remains open |
| 22:27.03 | javispedro | what will open mode of aegis prevent. |
| 22:27.16 | *** join/#maemo the_lord (~david@200.8.103.248) |
| 22:27.44 | javispedro | let's say ovimaps depended on aegis being armed and boot process "trusted" -- then it would need nokia's pkey |
| 22:28.15 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 22:28.47 | javispedro | but I can see that aegis would be useful for someone even without that signature. |
| 22:29.00 | DocScrutinizer | but that's unrelated to meegoCE which by design is "open mode" as there's no trust in a self-signed kernel whatsoever |
| 22:29.15 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, publicly known private-key? Surelty each vendor deploying meego would have their own secret public key, isolating themselves from other meegos |
| 22:30.11 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly, and that key is signed with Nokia's masterkey, which has its pubkey in OMAP hw |
| 22:30.19 | javispedro | why |
| 22:30.46 | javispedro | I mean, if the vendor does not want to run nokia code like ovimaps, why does it need nokia signature? |
| 22:30.54 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, wouldn't other vendors have their own master keys burned into the omaps in their devices |
| 22:31.22 | DocScrutinizer | if the chain of trust gets corrupted or broken, you can't re-establish it on a higher lever |
| 22:31.36 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sure |
| 22:31.51 | DocScrutinizer | if they are OEMs |
| 22:32.36 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: the master key in OMAP is owned by Nokia, on Nokia phones |
| 22:32.46 | javispedro | yes, I see now that you're thiking meegoCE on N950. |
| 22:33.07 | javispedro | but even then |
| 22:33.12 | ShadowJK | MeegoCE is probably not going to depoly aegis? |
| 22:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | when you use any sw not signed with a chain of trus up to this rootkey in OMAP, the device *is* in open mode |
| 22:33.38 | javispedro | tbh I do not know exactly what plan they have in mind with regards to mssf in meego. |
| 22:34.10 | javispedro | ShadowJK: aegis is known as mssf there, but still not included in any version that I know of. |
| 22:34.30 | DocScrutinizer | I deprecate the "open" mode term, actually it's tainted mode |
| 22:34.40 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you are completely right in that regard. |
| 22:34.58 | javispedro | ShadowJK: for example, they have already started work on aegis-enabled rpm =) |
| 22:35.14 | ShadowJK | need to make a few killer apps that absolutely require "open mode" ;-) |
| 22:35.19 | derEwigeJude | lol wtf |
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| 22:37.42 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 22:38.02 | javispedro | btw |
| 22:38.03 | javispedro | http://conference2010.meego.com/session/mobile-simplified-security-framework-overview |
| 22:38.10 | javispedro | mandated reading material for all of you ;) |
| 22:38.53 | nid0 | "to prevent a user from accidentally breaking the device" sounds like they dun goofed on that one |
| 22:38.53 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 22:39.08 | *** mode/#maemo [+b *!*@*.dip.t-dialin.net] by DocScrutinizer |
| 22:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | outch |
| 22:39.23 | javispedro | way too lax mask |
| 22:39.28 | ShadowJK | dosn't say much there? |
| 22:39.37 | javispedro | there's slides =) |
| 22:39.46 | *** mode/#maemo [-b *!*@*.dip.t-dialin.net] by DocScrutinizer |
| 22:40.12 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: either way, are you going to ban someone for saying "lol wtf" ? =) |
| 22:40.36 | ShadowJK | where are slides? |
| 22:40.45 | javispedro | ShadowJK: left pane |
| 22:40.49 | *** mode/#maemo [+b *!*@p54866554.dip.t-dialin.net] by DocScrutinizer |
| 22:40.52 | javispedro | htough there are more of an overview |
| 22:40.53 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@207.76.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:40.55 | javispedro | *they are |
| 22:41.00 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 22:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: same IP |
| 22:41.53 | javispedro | ah well. |
| 22:43.17 | ShadowJK | still doesn't answer "how do I get full access to my own phone?" :-) |
| 22:44.50 | *** join/#maemo tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 22:46.29 | javispedro | I've been telling one possible answer: build a kernel without Aegis. |
| 22:46.56 | javispedro | it's just a security module, so you can #ifdef it out (via .config) |
| 22:47.24 | javispedro | of course, what will userspace do is still unknown to me. |
| 22:47.57 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: or make Nokia deploy a manifest or what they call those aegis rules, that allows all for root |
| 22:49.54 | DocScrutinizer | I admit I don't understand enough to make a clear statement if that's possible at all, though |
| 22:49.59 | *** join/#maemo liar (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
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| 22:51.23 | DocScrutinizer | as you may have several different apps/processes running, and each of those has its own particular special security needs. So you can't probably allow root to run strace against *all* processes no matter what |
| 22:52.40 | DocScrutinizer | when there's a process that says "I don't want to get straced or get attached to gdb" then this will always override any general permission for root that Nokia may deploy |
| 22:53.01 | javispedro | people complain about resistive-ts sensitivity? A cable just slightly moved over the N900 screen and it destroyed my desktop's widget positions. |
| 22:53.06 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise MSSF/aegis/TC was useless by design |
| 22:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: jup |
| 22:53.51 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you are still thinking all Aegis is for is DRM, and we have not even yet seen one application that actually requires DRM. |
| 22:53.58 | javispedro | keep the optimism :) |
| 22:54.03 | DocScrutinizer | donno what peole think. I found N950 c-ts way less "sensitive" than N900 r-ts |
| 22:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: eh? |
| 22:54.39 | ShadowJK | I have better accuracy typing on N800 (yes, N800) r-ts /stylus/ vkbd with my thumbs than on my friend's capacitive android :-) |
| 22:55.19 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: even if root is allowed to shit crap in the system, aegis keeps its "other" purpose of preventing untrusted apps from making international calls. |
| 22:55.21 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I always stated clearly TC is about keeping total control over the devices you sell |
| 22:55.50 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: so, for all I know, this aegis-su or dev mode or some other bullshit could enable a proper, clean root with all capabilities and so. Just that I do not know yet. |
| 22:55.55 | javispedro | and the silence from Nokia doesn't help. |
| 22:56.02 | javispedro | maybe it is because we haven't asked THE QUESTION yet. |
| 22:56.28 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 22:57.19 | DocScrutinizer | but generally TC is about granting minimum rights and control to $user |
| 22:57.19 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 22:57.21 | nid0 | it's easy to slag off tc/tpm as the evil of the world tbh but there are plenty of valid consumer-benefitting uses of it, the question is just whether aegis is one or not |
| 22:57.58 | DocScrutinizer | the more control you grant, the more probelmatic cases you may have missed |
| 22:58.02 | javispedro | Aegis was _probably_ designed to be one. |
| 22:59.23 | *** part/#maemo derEwigeJude (~derEwigeJ@p54866554.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:59.58 | javispedro | wow, the vmware guys have a fine usb sniffer these days. |
| 23:00.18 | DocScrutinizer | nid0: I am on same page as those security experts quoted on wiki: "you don't need TC for implementing this kind of protecting the user from shit" - the *only* usecase that can only handled by TC is to protect *the device* from *the user* |
| 23:00.51 | DocScrutinizer | for allother cases there are possix-perms, SElinux, whatnot else |
| 23:02.48 | nid0 | well, I can name another use-case right now, with sed's - we use them at work now at all our remote storage arrays, and the sole reason is to keep user data safe if drives go walkies from the systems theyre meant to be connected to |
| 23:03.28 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, please rephrase |
| 23:04.20 | nid0 | sorry - self-encrypting drives - hard drives that encrypt themselves via a hardware tpm, so the drive's data is physically irretrievable in any other system |
| 23:04.48 | nid0 | software full-disk encryption but via hardware tpm basically, and removes the crippling performance drops software fde has |
| 23:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | that's pretty much standard on each and every HDD you buy today |
| 23:05.35 | nid0 | no, it's not. any drive supports software fde, but pretty much no consumer drives are sed |
| 23:06.00 | javispedro | seems that you where right DocScrutinizer, pupnik still gets drunk from time to time. |
| 23:06.03 | javispedro | sad to see. |
| 23:06.22 | javispedro | any of you are a #meego chanop btw? |
| 23:06.27 | DocScrutinizer | how do you tell? |
| 23:06.31 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 23:06.37 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, nope. :P |
| 23:08.28 | Termana | good morning |
| 23:09.55 | javispedro | morning Termana. |
| 23:13.11 | MohammadAG | Termana, time for some Your order has shipped emails |
| 23:13.41 | DocScrutinizer | incredible, 12 real users on accesslist and the whole #meego chan goes unmoderated |
| 23:15.42 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, seems like it's pupnik |
| 23:16.15 | DocScrutinizer | of course it's pupnik |
| 23:16.17 | DocScrutinizer | toldya |
| 23:23.08 | Termana | MohammadAG, sounds good to me. The sooner it ships the sooner I can stop using this STUPID android phone! Oh, and work on making my app work :p |
| 23:23.30 | MohammadAG | whoever picked #meego's ops sure did a great job |
| 23:24.13 | *** join/#maemo beford (~fercho@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 23:25.32 | javispedro | you all android traitors =) |
| 23:26.36 | *** join/#maemo Caco3 (~Caco3@19-233.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 23:27.46 | *** join/#maemo Caco3 (~Caco3@19-233.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 23:27.56 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:28.47 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: indeed |
| 23:29.02 | DocScrutinizer | I gather it's been stskeeps |
| 23:29.39 | *** join/#maemo CaCO4 (~gruinelli@19-233.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 23:30.06 | DocScrutinizer | right now dawnfoster and qgil have F as well, but I think originally the canel been founded by stskeeps |
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| 23:33.59 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: which makes me ponder about the number of active and caring chanops in *this* channel |
| 23:35.40 | DocScrutinizer | seems like stskeeps, andre__, dneary, crashanddie, vdvsx are not really active anymore |
| 23:37.30 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 23:37.31 | DocScrutinizer | leaves 4. well 3 as X-Fade isn't as frequently active here as he used to be, and jaffa also seems to become a rare see |
| 23:37.39 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@59-14-15.connect.netcom.no) |
| 23:38.14 | Termana | They've all gone to #meego |
| 23:38.32 | jonwil | so have we found a way to bypass aegis yet? |
| 23:39.08 | MohammadAG | there's open mode, which no one's daring to try |
| 23:39.25 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: nope |
| 23:39.53 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: tell no FUD, tell how to do that! |
| 23:40.20 | jonwil | I still think finding out what part of the system sets the sysfs aegis security entries might help |
| 23:40.30 | MohammadAG | I'm guessing it's an R&D flag DocScrutinizer |
| 23:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 23:40.44 | MohammadAG | didn't frals give you pointers too? |
| 23:41.09 | DocScrutinizer | yes, plus the remark "will most likely brick *your* devices" |
| 23:41.35 | Termana | Well, that sounds pleasant |
| 23:42.07 | MohammadAG | brick is so overused |
| 23:42.17 | MohammadAG | so what? reflash |
| 23:42.46 | DocScrutinizer | so what? it's just the FIRST time ANYBODY did that |
| 23:42.54 | mr_jrt | ...night all. |
| 23:42.57 | DocScrutinizer | no big deal, yeah |
| 23:43.37 | Termana | MohammadAG: only soft brick? Are we sure he didnt mean *brick* brick? :p |
| 23:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | also it's easy to go to next shop and get a swap device when flashing fails, for whatever reasons |
| 23:44.36 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: those loaners weren't sent out to test aegis, after all |
| 23:45.09 | DocScrutinizer | neither to test flashing, hell it's not even been clear if there's a working image to flash at all |
| 23:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | luckily I can confirm now the image indeed works |
| 23:45.57 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:47.06 | DocScrutinizer | just it's a *complete* combined-vanilla-combined flash that won't leave any backups to rstore after flashing, AIUI |
| 23:47.39 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 23:48.17 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@173.26.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 23:48.47 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:49.05 | DocScrutinizer | and rather than messing with friggin aegis I'd prefer to see Nokia give proper advice how to deal with this nuissance, so devels can concentrate on what they're supposed to do: develop, not debug aegis |
| 23:50.00 | MohammadAG | Termana, I'm sure |
| 23:50.07 | MohammadAG | otherwise qgil wouldn't have talked about it |
| 23:50.11 | *** join/#maemo npm (~npm@cpe-76-90-30-220.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:51.20 | Termana | Here we go again |
| 23:51.25 | Termana | Shit just got real in #meego |
| 23:51.45 | MohammadAG | Termana, I GOT DIS |
| 23:51.46 | MohammadAG | or not |
| 23:57.36 | jonwil | so we are giving up on trying to bypass aegis and are going to ask Nokia to provide an answer ASAP? |
