| 00:00.24 | arvut | mikki-kun: yeah, but it shouldn't peak at 100% cpu for logging should it? or is that process multitasking too? |
| 00:01.00 | arvut | phone is hardly 300° =P |
| 00:01.07 | javispedro | adds this fakeselop guy to follow list =) |
| 00:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: and how to read it out? |
| 00:01.13 | arvut | possibly kelvin |
| 00:01.27 | arvut | but not °c or °f |
| 00:01.50 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, read madc kernel driver, learn how to talk to driver? :P |
| 00:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | haha, I doubt anybody is doing this, except bme |
| 00:02.34 | mikki-kun | arvut: i am not sure how nokia changed it, but it is rather behaving strange on the n900, my xserver on my netbook sucks usually only at max 5% and that is on heavy duty tasks |
| 00:02.37 | ShadowJK | iirc dsme or mce |
| 00:02.54 | ShadowJK | and bme for bsi (also on madc) |
| 00:02.58 | mikki-kun | arvut: kelvin doesn't have ° in it ;) |
| 00:03.05 | DocScrutinizer | whoever, I don't see a sensor display for that coming from anywhere |
| 00:03.06 | arvut | mikki-kun: well, its not normally lagging. not even when draining cpu |
| 00:03.53 | ShadowJK | xorg on my n900 is at <10% cpu, xchat and a bunch of xterms running |
| 00:04.15 | DocScrutinizer | meh, reflash |
| 00:04.16 | arvut | camera wouldn't close today when I started it with auto video tho. red light didn't turn off and cam program didn't respond. so I shut it off manually |
| 00:04.39 | arvut | ShadowJK: does it ever peak at around 90% then? |
| 00:04.45 | ShadowJK | nope |
| 00:04.55 | arvut | k, reflash it is |
| 00:04.58 | DocScrutinizer | auto-video?? |
| 00:05.01 | ShadowJK | not that ive seen atleast |
| 00:05.07 | *** join/#maemo Pathin_ (~root@77-22-92-82-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 00:05.20 | arvut | automatic video, yeah. not night video |
| 00:05.22 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-176-214-3.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 00:05.43 | arvut | its under cam options. I use the cam a lot |
| 00:05.45 | DocScrutinizer | where's that? |
| 00:06.29 | arvut | open camera, choose mode (its normally on automatic (big A)) and select that video mode |
| 00:06.41 | DocScrutinizer | aah, it's called automatic video. No idea what's automatic with that |
| 00:06.55 | arvut | probably light sensors |
| 00:07.00 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: it just works magically ;) that's why it's called "auto" |
| 00:07.05 | arvut | =) |
| 00:07.10 | ShadowJK | autofocus (on start), autoexposure, autoo white balance |
| 00:07.24 | arvut | ah yeah, thats it. ty ShadowJK |
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| 00:08.06 | DocScrutinizer | autoerotic fantasms! |
| 00:08.32 | arvut | mikki-kun: well, could be a badly written app then. as it says 293°c on cpu temp =) 250mhz out of 600 used |
| 00:08.48 | arvut | QCPU-something |
| 00:09.05 | mikki-kun | lol, 293 x) that'd be 15.85°C actually |
| 00:09.07 | arvut | or just QCPU, not sure |
| 00:09.17 | DocScrutinizer | when cam viewfinder tries to take over the screen, but is somehow messed up, that would quite a bit explain all your observations |
| 00:09.20 | arvut | has gone above 300 tho' |
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| 00:09.29 | arvut | which is around room temp |
| 00:09.44 | mikki-kun | uhm, missed a +4 there |
| 00:09.45 | arvut | weird stuff either way |
| 00:09.45 | mikki-kun | >.> |
| 00:09.46 | ShadowJK | discovered today that only program running on his n900 that linked to qt was modest |
| 00:09.56 | javispedro | modest links to qt?? |
| 00:09.56 | arvut | 293 to 300? =) |
| 00:09.58 | DocScrutinizer | arvut: cpu temp is BS. esp if it doesn't change |
| 00:10.17 | arvut | it does, but its probably bs anyway |
| 00:10.20 | ShadowJK | javispedro, grep qt /proc/*/maps :-) |
| 00:10.34 | javispedro | ShadowJK: does not compute, modest is Gtk+ |
| 00:10.43 | arvut | lol |
| 00:10.45 | ShadowJK | yep |
| 00:11.40 | javispedro | "modest-as-plugin-0" |
| 00:11.44 | arvut | btw, how much does one degree kelvin differ from celsius? |
| 00:12.05 | javispedro | something about mail for exchange makes modest link with qt |
| 00:12.07 | arvut | as in, how much is each degree in k, in c |
| 00:12.14 | DocScrutinizer | find /sys -name '*temp*' |
| 00:12.19 | ShadowJK | 1 |
| 00:12.21 | mikki-kun | arvut: 273.15K is 0C |
| 00:12.27 | MohammadAG | javispedro, this guy is gold "Nokia phones will not track you, because according to our Q1 results, you clearly aren't buying them." |
| 00:12.40 | mikki-kun | one kelvin difference is one degree celcius difference |
| 00:12.44 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:13.04 | ShadowJK | MohammadAG, also the gos doesn't work ;p |
| 00:13.05 | arvut | ty, thought so. but you did get me confused with the room temp :P |
| 00:13.09 | ShadowJK | gps* |
| 00:13.19 | MohammadAG | LMFAO Reports indicate that Bin Laden let his guard down while trying to free C: memory on his N97. #nokiafightsterrorism |
| 00:13.37 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 00:13.54 | arvut | so 300k would be around 22°c if 293k is 15.85°c? |
| 00:14.06 | mikki-kun | it's just, that the kelvin scale is more important in physics/chemistry as 0K is the absolute zero (which cannot be achieved btw, practically impossible) |
| 00:14.31 | mikki-kun | uhhhh, 293 is actually 19.85 :) made a typo somewhere in my head :/ |
| 00:14.33 | SpeedEvil | I have a fridge that goes to 0K |
| 00:14.54 | arvut | mikki-kun: yeah, isnt it like the coldest temp in celsius ever reached so far? |
| 00:14.55 | *** join/#maemo Pathin_ (~root@77-22-92-82-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 00:14.55 | mikki-kun | SpeedEvil: i beg to differ... =p |
| 00:14.59 | SpeedEvil | I accidentally turned it down all the way, and made air-cubes. |
| 00:15.00 | arvut | or is it just math? |
| 00:15.01 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I am going to say that the best is this one "EEEELLLLLLLLLL-DAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" |
| 00:15.18 | mikki-kun | arvut: you cannot achieve that, it's impossible |
| 00:15.21 | arvut | as in, when particles stop generating heat.. |
| 00:15.45 | ShadowJK | particles dont generate heat |
| 00:15.47 | arvut | lack of heat would maybe stop time =) |
| 00:15.48 | mikki-kun | arvut: particles don't generate heat by themselves, but due to collision mostly ;) |
| 00:16.05 | arvut | yeah, what I meant really |
| 00:16.13 | arvut | indirectly they do tho |
| 00:16.16 | mikki-kun | but i think that now goes to physics |
| 00:16.33 | arvut | as in #physics? =) |
| 00:16.39 | mikki-kun | yeah |
| 00:16.50 | MohammadAG | mikki-kun, lies |
| 00:16.54 | arvut | aha, well I'm going to ##bed |
| 00:17.05 | MohammadAG | Apple's announcing self heat generating particles in the next conference |
| 00:17.26 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: all professors will epicly facepalm =p |
| 00:17.31 | arvut | not looking forward to it tbh, but I must. b-day celebrations tomorrow and lots to do |
| 00:17.45 | mikki-kun | arvut: yours? |
| 00:17.47 | MohammadAG | mikki-kun, no, they'll buy them cause they're revolutionary, they don't vibrate! |
| 00:18.14 | MohammadAG | word is they have them stored in a fridge under 0K, cause they can |
| 00:18.18 | arvut | anyway, thx for teh chat, was fun and informative. little less worried about my noucko now =)~ |
| 00:18.28 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: and since when does apple invent new stuff? they stopped back in the 80s |
| 00:18.41 | arvut | mikki-kun: nope, my mom is turning 6 byte, I turned 3 byte in may. |
| 00:18.49 | mikki-kun | they are just good copycats |
| 00:18.59 | mikki-kun | ohhhh, lol XD |
| 00:19.08 | mikki-kun | that's a fun way of expressing age :D |
| 00:19.15 | arvut | mikki-kun: excellent copycats and sneaky SE'ers =P |
| 00:19.31 | arvut | so, nn. I'll be here asap =) |
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| 00:21.18 | mikki-kun | sleep well :) |
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| 00:22.56 | javispedro | misses Kate's fine GLESv2 Fremantle wrapper |
| 00:23.10 | javispedro | the one imgtec ships for free is pure crap |
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| 00:25.50 | arvut | guess whos alive and well again.. ;) |
| 00:26.02 | arvut | noooouckooo!! =D |
| 00:26.30 | arvut | a reboot and some batteryfree time was all it needed |
| 00:26.35 | javispedro | why I knew. |
| 00:27.16 | arvut | 60 degrees? no? ;P |
| 00:27.38 | javispedro | <javispedro> for now why don't you just remove the battery for a few minutes |
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| 00:28.46 | arvut | anyway, I've seen iphones die and I'm not overly impressed with those andriods, but this piece of marble I'm impressed with. gj to everyone who contributed to its development :) |
| 00:29.32 | arvut | javispedro: i did do it the first time you told me, the time you also said something about high temps :P |
| 00:29.51 | arvut | switched to laptop for irssiing |
| 00:30.41 | arvut | this keyboard is so my nicer tho. even if its not a laptop sv dvorak layout ;) |
| 00:31.11 | arvut | and the blueness of its irssi! |
| 00:32.19 | arvut | QCPUFreq is the app I mentioned before |
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| 00:32.49 | arvut | gonna take another look at it and see what it say now, before uninstalling it. |
| 00:33.47 | arvut | 346 degrees C and smartreflex(tm) off |
| 00:33.52 | arvut | lovely |
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| 00:35.05 | SpeedEvil | CPU heat is not related to the battery |
| 00:35.10 | SpeedEvil | battery temp readout |
| 00:36.18 | arvut | well, dangerous bogus app then I guess |
| 00:37.04 | arvut | it allows for overclocking which is just no good |
| 00:38.35 | arvut | wow.. too late now. time truly flies in irc. nite nite once again, I'm !a hen :) |
| 00:38.44 | *** part/#maemo arvut (~user@unaffiliated/arvut) |
| 00:39.48 | merlin1991 | my pentium m idles @ 50°C wtf? |
| 00:40.17 | javispedro | uh, oh. |
| 00:40.41 | javispedro | there's a weird delay when swipe is enabled from touching the screen to the app actually registering the input |
| 00:41.04 | lcuk | javispedro, are you on hardware |
| 00:41.09 | javispedro | obviously not |
| 00:41.17 | lcuk | not obviously :) |
| 00:42.11 | javispedro | drops some pennies in the direction of lcuk to see if he leaves any cardboard box prototype without vigilance |
| 00:42.40 | merlin1991 | javispedro: the emulator for me has HUGE delays |
| 00:42.45 | merlin1991 | I dunno why though |
| 00:43.25 | javispedro | yes, I made an error in my testing |
| 00:43.42 | javispedro | it is due to compositor, not anything input |
| 00:44.34 | MohammadAG | my SDK runs as quick as the youtube vids :P |
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| 00:45.18 | MohammadAG | though the compositor/window manager behaves differently on the N9 than on the SDK |
| 00:46.05 | merlin1991 | I think my install is broken |
| 00:46.17 | javispedro | nah, I never got accelerated output on the _x86_ sdk |
| 00:46.21 | MohammadAG | the view behind the app doesn't peak out when sliding |
| 00:46.30 | merlin1991 | settings panel is empty besides done button |
| 00:46.32 | javispedro | MohammadAG: so do you have nvidia? |
| 00:46.35 | merlin1991 | qmlviewer does nothing |
| 00:46.36 | MohammadAG | I would try the ARMEL SDK but I don't have it installed |
| 00:46.38 | MohammadAG | javispedro, yes |
| 00:46.43 | javispedro | with propietary? |
| 00:47.06 | merlin1991 | and email client starts but I clicking the configure email button does nothing |
| 00:47.14 | MohammadAG | merlin1991, pass a QML duh :p |
| 00:47.17 | MohammadAG | javispedro, yeah |
| 00:47.27 | MohammadAG | there are issues with dialogs, but the rest is quick |
| 00:47.34 | merlin1991 | javispedro: does the "email" app in the emulator work for you past the first dialog? |
| 00:47.47 | javispedro | sbox is not an emulator! |
| 00:47.53 | merlin1991 | sry |
| 00:47.56 | MohammadAG | it does for me |
| 00:47.56 | MohammadAG | asks for an email and a pass |
| 00:48.06 | javispedro | yes but I never got it to actually sync mail |
| 00:48.17 | merlin1991 | I can't get past the first dialog :/ |
| 00:49.33 | MohammadAG | the concept of stacked windows is broken in the SDK |
| 00:49.47 | MohammadAG | each window shows on its own in the task manager |
| 00:50.08 | javispedro | tries to clear a misunderstanding |
| 00:50.12 | javispedro | by stacked windows you mean? |
| 00:50.45 | javispedro | that thing about the lockscreen stacking window layers? |
| 00:51.13 | javispedro | or HildonStackableWindow? |
| 00:51.16 | MohammadAG | javispedro, open the email app (setup part) |
| 00:51.27 | MohammadAG | click "Set up" or Start or Go |
| 00:51.43 | javispedro | I cannot reach that part =) |
| 00:51.47 | javispedro | but I think that's on purpose |
| 00:51.53 | MohammadAG | whatever it says, slide back into multitask view |
| 00:51.53 | MohammadAG | you can see both stacked windows separate |
| 00:51.56 | MohammadAG | whereas on maemo you only see the deepest stacked window |
| 00:52.11 | javispedro | MohammadAG: the thing here is that mail settings are part of the settings app, not mail |
| 00:52.18 | javispedro | try to open settings |
| 00:52.44 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 00:52.51 | MohammadAG | each window remembers how you slid it and goes from there |
| 00:53.00 | MohammadAG | if you slide up, it slides down when you return to the window |
| 00:53.13 | javispedro | and if you kill a process it goes "down" =) |
| 00:53.29 | javispedro | (instead of "poof" like on maemo) |
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| 00:54.32 | merlin1991 | installs x86 target again |
| 00:55.10 | javispedro | aha, so I see the trick |
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| 00:55.31 | javispedro | compositor adds four "swipe" X11 windows to each corner |
| 00:55.37 | javispedro | s/corner/border |
| 01:00.43 | merlin1991 | hm it seems to get "somewhere" now, but I fear my overall specs of this machine slow it down too much (1,7ghz pentum m and some crappy ati) |
| 01:01.06 | MohammadAG | javispedro, yup, noticed that here |
| 01:01.19 | MohammadAG | sometimes they don't draw well so I see white squares |
| 01:02.02 | rm_you | has there been any word about when there'll be an SDK available for Harmattan? |
| 01:02.39 | javispedro | W. T. H. |
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| 01:03.33 | merlin1991 | slightly remembers something about meego == rpm |
| 01:03.46 | merlin1991 | but I have a nice /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 01:03.49 | MohammadAG | and harmattan == deb |
| 01:03.51 | javispedro | here's one magic check: mdecorator lookups for the application .desktop file in /usr/share/applications/{X11 application class hint}.desktop |
| 01:03.57 | MohammadAG | rm_you, two days ago |
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| 01:05.16 | merlin1991 | javispedro: are you eventually going to write a blog post about the manuall installation? |
| 01:05.46 | MohammadAG | his pastebin is actually useful enough :P |
| 01:05.50 | Hurrian | http://goput.it/str/2p4.png |
| 01:06.02 | Hurrian | MohammadAG : check 'em |
| 01:06.20 | javispedro | merlin1991: not sure unless I have more content |
| 01:06.22 | rm_you | MohammadAG: so, there was WORD 2 days ago, or it was released two days ago? :P |
| 01:06.24 | Hurrian | the media player... has been pimped out |
| 01:06.30 | MohammadAG | rm_you, latter |
| 01:06.35 | rm_you | cool. |
| 01:07.00 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, while that looks cool, I have no idea how to fade the image like that :p |
| 01:07.15 | Hurrian | MAG : apply the image as a gradient i guess |
| 01:07.25 | Hurrian | can you change opacity of images in QT? |
| 01:07.47 | javispedro | the harmattan cellular API looks impressive |
| 01:07.52 | MohammadAG | not that I know, at least not without subclassing |
| 01:07.56 | javispedro | there's stuff to manipulate SIM phonebook for example |
| 01:08.06 | Atarii | anyone used the bleeding-edge wl1251 wifi driver? |
| 01:08.17 | merlin1991 | Atarii: I did / do |
| 01:08.33 | Atarii | got it to inject ok? |
| 01:08.39 | merlin1991 | yep |
| 01:08.58 | Atarii | does it matter what firmware I use? I'm just using the latest everything |
| 01:09.25 | merlin1991 | firmware is no problem, but kernel could |
| 01:09.34 | merlin1991 | what version of the power kernel do you have? |
| 01:09.48 | Atarii | kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46-wl1_armel.deb |
| 01:10.06 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@69.155.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 01:10.26 | javispedro | btw, since osso was dropped, also the entire launched via dbus thing was also dropped |
| 01:10.45 | MohammadAG | wtf |
| 01:10.49 | MohammadAG | how are apps launched? |
| 01:11.05 | javispedro | plain exec |
| 01:11.15 | Atarii | merlin1991 that look right? ^^ |
| 01:11.26 | merlin1991 | Atarii: and you didn't upgrade that one over the application manager? |
| 01:11.28 | javispedro | boosted apps get some kind of single instance support |
| 01:12.21 | merlin1991 | Atarii: run apt-cache policy kernel-power |
| 01:12.43 | Atarii | I flashed VANILLA then COMBINED then followed this guide basically: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=914062&postcount=1 |
| 01:13.06 | Atarii | ah, after installing the kernel? |
| 01:13.18 | merlin1991 | just run it now to check the real version installed |
| 01:13.27 | *** join/#maemo Pathin_ (~root@77-22-92-82-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 01:13.29 | javispedro | so this aegis thing talks to bb5 chip.. |
| 01:13.40 | MohammadAG | IMEI? |
| 01:13.44 | Atarii | well I've just started again so I've got a fresh device again now |
| 01:14.36 | merlin1991 | in that case it "should" work |
| 01:16.15 | Atarii | ok i'll follow that guide again |
| 01:16.32 | merlin1991 | anyone here know if mikhail_ramalho from tmo visits this channel? |
| 01:20.54 | javispedro | http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Gestures.html |
| 01:21.01 | javispedro | I guess where it says "Click" it should say "Flick" |
| 01:23.29 | *** join/#maemo Pathin_ (~root@77-22-92-82-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 01:24.59 | javispedro | haha, someone already made the new icon for drnoksnes for me: http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/images/core_ui_framework/pages/installation_1.png |
| 01:25.11 | javispedro | whoever you are, thank you! |
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| 01:30.08 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: plain exec \o/ anothe cruft POS gone |
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| 01:32.21 | DocScrutinizer | and... |
| 01:32.29 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart aegis |
| 01:32.29 | infobot | shoves a crumpet down aegis's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? |
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| 01:33.40 | javispedro | fails to find .desktop file documentation in meegotouch docs |
| 01:33.53 | DocScrutinizer | good sign |
| 01:33.58 | javispedro | bad sign |
| 01:34.04 | javispedro | cause there's lots of new stuff |
| 01:34.15 | javispedro | harmattan implements iphone-style uninstalling of applications |
| 01:34.16 | DocScrutinizer | might mean they finally stick with freedesktop standards |
| 01:34.31 | javispedro | via deleting launcher icon => uninstalls associated application |
| 01:34.32 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-63-18.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 01:34.41 | javispedro | so I'm sure this means there's at least a new "packagename" field or similar. |
| 01:34.43 | DocScrutinizer | WUT |
| 01:35.21 | DocScrutinizer | *BURRP* |
| 01:36.00 | DocScrutinizer | I'm really not quite sure whether I like that M6 |
| 01:36.47 | Hurrian | Dco |
| 01:36.56 | Hurrian | *Doc: multitasking's still great |
| 01:37.05 | Hurrian | but why did they remove customizable homescreens? |
| 01:37.15 | Hurrian | seems like nokia just brain farted... again |
| 01:37.20 | DocScrutinizer | well, almost all the voodoo in M5 is well understood now, they basically HAD to come up with new cruft to keep us busy and excited |
| 01:37.56 | Hurrian | ...they really do love doing things ass-backwards, don't they? |
| 01:38.17 | Atarii | merlin1991 still no go :( |
| 01:38.25 | javispedro | can't believe you're complaining about customizable homescreens |
| 01:38.46 | Atarii | aireplay-ng -9 waln0 causes "Device or resource busy....Sysfs injection was not found either" |
| 01:39.08 | Hurrian | >>>deleting launcher icon => uninstalls associated application |
| 01:39.12 | Hurrian | the ffffff? |
| 01:39.20 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I can't believe anybody< van live with a predefined immutable homescreen |
| 01:39.20 | Hurrian | oh well, consumer device etc |
| 01:39.26 | MohammadAG | javispedro, if it's smart, it does a dpkg -S to find which package the icon is part of |
| 01:39.41 | Hurrian | but ffs, why doesn't ANY smartphone OS include icon hiding out of the box? |
| 01:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | three cheers on MohammadAG |
| 01:40.55 | DocScrutinizer | brillinat answer :-) |
| 01:42.34 | DocScrutinizer | I just wonder who decided differentiation is swearword now for meego, and everything has to look and feel like iPhone |
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| 01:42.55 | DocScrutinizer | ""it's NOT a computer, it's an iPhone-me-too" |
| 01:43.03 | javispedro | but I do not see why doing iphone-style uninstalling is bad |
| 01:43.19 | DocScrutinizer | shakes head about epigones |
| 01:44.20 | Hurrian | @DocScrutinizer : differentiation INDEED. |
| 01:44.37 | MohammadAG | puts on troll hat, there's also an android style pull down menu, but iOS ripped that off too |
| 01:44.39 | Hurrian | o hai, we're not an android copycat, that's just an iOS copycat |
| 01:44.47 | javispedro | MohammadAG: it's not pull down I think |
| 01:44.50 | DocScrutinizer | I don't see why they never had proper submenu support ootb in m5, then decided to nuke the single submenu they got in PR1.2, and now we get an OS where homescreen==applauncher |
| 01:44.53 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
| 01:44.56 | DocScrutinizer | PFFFFF |
| 01:45.22 | javispedro | the difference, is that meegotouchome is home ;) |
| 01:45.26 | javispedro | s/home/open/ |
| 01:45.38 | javispedro | infobot: bad bot |
| 01:45.38 | infobot | Bad bot, bad! No cookie for you! |
| 01:45.44 | MohammadAG | hildon-home was open :p |
| 01:45.58 | javispedro | between harmattan and the iphone :p |
| 01:46.52 | javispedro | I have to wonder though if application installer is open or closed |
| 01:46.58 | javispedro | seemingly it is the one doing the .desktop tricks |
| 01:47.29 | javispedro | QString desktopEntryPath = LauncherDataStore::keyToEntryPath(dataStore->key(packageName)); |
| 01:48.40 | MohammadAG | javispedro, mind checking something while you're at it |
| 01:48.43 | Atarii | merlin1991 nvm got it :D |
| 01:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | turns away terrified |
| 01:48.48 | MohammadAG | can more homescreens be added? |
| 01:49.18 | javispedro | well, by patching it yes |
| 01:49.32 | javispedro | ie there's a place where it just creates the 3 views |
| 01:49.50 | MohammadAG | well, what's "it" and is "it" open? |
| 01:50.11 | javispedro | meegohometouch |
| 01:50.14 | javispedro | er.. |
| 01:50.16 | javispedro | meegotouchhome |
| 01:50.25 | MohammadAG | oh, that's the one? |
| 01:50.29 | javispedro | yep |
| 01:50.35 | MohammadAG | adds more stuff to his todo if he gets a device |
| 01:50.38 | javispedro | desktopview.cpp, around like 144 |
| 01:51.06 | javispedro | well, around lines 100-200 |
| 01:51.30 | MohammadAG | excellent, ty |
| 01:51.51 | javispedro | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:52.14 | javispedro | I'm missing the notifications stuff |
| 01:52.24 | javispedro | if it's on another module then it means it must be extensible |
| 01:53.32 | MohammadAG | notifications are MTF afaik |
| 01:54.04 | javispedro | I mean the code that shows them inside meegotouchhome |
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| 01:59.37 | javispedro | harmattan surely takes a shitload more time to build than fremantle |
| 01:59.52 | javispedro | that many c++.. |
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| 02:01.46 | MohammadAG | but it's a bit more understandable :p |
| 02:06.39 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, have you summarized the relevance deltas between MeeGo and Harmattan? |
| 02:06.43 | GeneralAntilles | And merged the APIs? |
| 02:07.23 | javispedro | what? I'm still just understanding the deltas between maemo and harmattan! =) |
| 02:08.20 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N950_Hardware FWIW |
| 02:09.15 | MohammadAG | nice DocScrutinizer |
| 02:09.35 | MohammadAG | shouldn't the NFC part say N9 only? |
| 02:09.44 | MohammadAG | also the FCC shows a 12MP camera on the N950 |
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| 02:11.22 | MohammadAG | also, what's the final name for Harmattan? MeeGo or Maemo? |
| 02:11.40 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 02:11.43 | javispedro | that-who-must-not-benamed |
| 02:12.04 | DocScrutinizer | nfc how it made it into strings from N950 fiasco |
| 02:12.55 | MohammadAG | anyway, off to bed |
| 02:16.12 | DocScrutinizer | the FCC shows a black block with a lens, maybe a writing that says Zeiss which is not correct. There may be other writings on prototypes that are not correct |
| 02:16.30 | mikki-kun | hm, could the n900 speak to a webcam if that'd be attached to it's microusb? |
| 02:16.47 | DocScrutinizer | why not |
| 02:16.48 | ds3 | arrrg MicroSIM |
| 02:17.00 | DocScrutinizer | NO microSIM |
| 02:17.17 | ds3 | gsmarena specs for N9 is wrong? |
| 02:17.22 | mikki-kun | seems that's a yes then :) |
| 02:17.57 | mikki-kun | uhm, n950 with 12mp? sweet :) |
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| 02:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | Important: Do not use a mini-UICC SIM card, also |
| 02:18.46 | DocScrutinizer | known as a micro-SIM card, a micro-SIM card with an |
| 02:18.47 | DocScrutinizer | adapter, or a SIM card that has a mini-UICC cutout (see |
| 02:18.49 | DocScrutinizer | figure) in this device. A micro SIM card is smaller than the |
| 02:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | standard SIM card. This device does not support the use |
| 02:18.52 | DocScrutinizer | of micro-SIM cards and use of incompatible SIM cards may |
| 02:18.53 | DocScrutinizer | damage the card or the device, and may corrupt data |
| 02:18.55 | DocScrutinizer | stored on the card. |
| 02:18.58 | DocScrutinizer | that's N950 |
| 02:19.17 | ds3 | ah, N9 vs N950 difference |
| 02:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | *nobody* can say what N9 _really_ will look like when rollout |
| 02:20.07 | mikki-kun | btw, the n900 support micro-sims... got accidently one and well, piece of paper, soome steady hand and voila :) |
| 02:20.09 | MohammadAG | afaik it's uSIM |
| 02:20.12 | ds3 | what's a NFC module? |
| 02:20.30 | MohammadAG | microSIMs seem identical to full size ones to me |
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| 02:22.14 | DrGrov | So N9 will have regular SIM card size and N950 will have micro-SIM size? |
| 02:22.21 | ds3 | NFC == near Field communications? |
| 02:22.37 | MohammadAG | DrGrov, no, you mixed up |
| 02:23.15 | DrGrov | Ok, I am mixed up as always LOL |
| 02:23.21 | DrGrov | So it is microSIM for N9 as well then? |
| 02:23.29 | DrGrov | Damn, need to cut and get handy which I am not |
| 02:23.45 | MohammadAG | N9 uSIM, N950 normal SIM |
| 02:24.02 | DrGrov | What is the difference with a normal SIM and uSIM? I am quite sure I have a uSIM.... |
| 02:24.06 | ds3 | N950 looks like a bug fix for the N900 |
| 02:24.07 | DrGrov | Of course I can not be completely sure |
| 02:25.09 | MohammadAG | by u I meant the greek letter mu, meaning micro |
| 02:25.20 | MohammadAG | not USIM, the one introduced with 3G |
| 02:25.34 | DrGrov | Ok, so it is not the one introduced with 3G |
| 02:25.37 | DrGrov | I need a new SIM then |
| 02:25.43 | MohammadAG | microSIMs are the ones iPhone 4 uses |
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| 02:25.57 | MohammadAG | you can knife your existing SIM, just saying |
| 02:26.13 | DrGrov | Yes, could do that as well but I am not so handy. |
| 02:26.23 | DrGrov | I'll just end up carving up the thing as a turkey |
| 02:27.13 | DrGrov | Any news on release dates yet of the N9? |
| 02:27.27 | DrGrov | I read something about Summer 2011... That is perhaps accurate or still going later? |
| 02:27.41 | MohammadAG | August / September |
| 02:27.47 | DrGrov | Ok, that is a good release date. |
| 02:28.03 | DrGrov | It will be interesting to see if it actually will be the same as the promo videos and showings |
| 02:28.14 | DocScrutinizer | no way |
| 02:28.16 | DrGrov | Any things that could still change? |
| 02:28.43 | DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: What would change then? |
| 02:29.05 | ds3 | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/stainless-steel-micro-sim-card-cutter-with-micro-sim-card-adapters-for-apple-ipad-iphone-4-41275 |
| 02:29.12 | ds3 | that will turn a normal sim into a uSim |
| 02:29.16 | DocScrutinizer | no way it will roll out in August |
| 02:29.42 | DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: You think more likely October or November perhaps? |
| 02:29.45 | DocScrutinizer | N900 was announced for June iirc, it got almost decenber |
| 02:30.14 | DocScrutinizer | seems there's not even FCC application for N9 yet |
| 02:30.30 | ds3 | a better question is - will it even make it to market |
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| 02:30.41 | MohammadAG | no DocScrutinizer |
| 02:30.45 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 02:30.50 | MohammadAG | The N900 was leaked in June |
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| 02:31.03 | MohammadAG | it was announced in October I think |
| 02:31.12 | DocScrutinizer | nonsense!!! |
| 02:31.28 | DrGrov | So it looks like the N9 will be released later... October perhaps? Even December is not too far away? |
| 02:31.37 | MohammadAG | it wasn't announced June-August, I'm sure of that |
| 02:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | I got mine in late november and Nokia had my money on preorder for almost 3 months |
| 02:31.58 | ds3 | the N950 looks more attractive then the N9 |
| 02:32.21 | MohammadAG | I like the looks of the N9 more, the kb of the N950 |
| 02:32.21 | DrGrov | The problem is that regular customers won't get the N950 which is a shame |
| 02:32.36 | ds3 | do you need to be an approved developer to get the N950? |
| 02:33.03 | MohammadAG | just a community dev |
| 02:33.05 | DrGrov | ds3: That is how I understand it. No N950 for regular customers |
| 02:33.25 | ds3 | okay, where does one sign up to be a dev? |
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| 02:33.42 | MohammadAG | are you a dev? |
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| 02:33.50 | javispedro | ok, bullshit. |
| 02:34.01 | ds3 | yes, I do development on ARM and related mobile devices |
| 02:34.10 | DrGrov | javispedro: What is bullshit? LOL |
| 02:34.13 | MohammadAG | done devel on Maemo? |
| 02:34.19 | javispedro | crap, crap,crap. |
| 02:34.31 | javispedro | MohammadAG: meegotouchhome is nonfree |
| 02:34.32 | ds3 | a tiny little bit |
| 02:34.47 | ds3 | <-- low level guy, mostly distro agnostic |
| 02:34.49 | MohammadAG | javispedro, then what am I looking at? |
| 02:35.03 | MohammadAG | or was looking at |
| 02:35.03 | javispedro | MohammadAG: a decoy |
| 02:35.04 | DrGrov | Is there a chance to get a N950 later though? |
| 02:35.10 | DrGrov | Might want a N950 instead of a N9 |
| 02:35.11 | MohammadAG | a what o_O |
| 02:35.14 | DrGrov | Due to the keyboard |
| 02:35.39 | javispedro | MohammadAG: meegotouchhome is a stub binary (~50KiB) with a large libmeegotouchhome.so library that does the heavy work |
| 02:35.41 | ds3 | MohammadAG: is there a particular program or list of requirements to qualify as a "developer"? |
| 02:35.55 | javispedro | MohammadAG: while on the harmattan rootstrap, /usr/bin/meegotouchhome is around 1 MiB large |
| 02:35.58 | MohammadAG | ds3, just having done devel for maemo/meego afaik |
| 02:36.07 | javispedro | MohammadAG: and has keywords such as "SwipeDesktop", etc. |
| 02:36.15 | ds3 | MohammadAG: how does one establish that? |
| 02:36.24 | MohammadAG | javispedro, anything swipe related is closed afaik |
| 02:36.44 | MohammadAG | so Harmattan is more closed (UI wise) than Fremantlw |
| 02:37.15 | javispedro | what i'm saying is that despite the fact that it is the normal meego's meegotouchview, the binary is haxxored to use classes that are on the binary itself instead of on the .s |
| 02:37.18 | javispedro | *.so |
| 02:38.07 | javispedro | _and_ no source for this "enlarged" binary. |
| 02:38.35 | DocScrutinizer | Maemo 5 injects speed and power into mobile computing |
| 02:38.53 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:38.53 | DocScrutinizer | The new Nokia N900: Computer-grade performance in a handset Espoo, Finland â Nokia today marked the next phase in the evolution of Maemo software with the new Nokia N900. |
| 02:39.11 | javispedro | so, because of this swipe thing, we have closed source launcher. |
| 02:39.22 | javispedro | how cool.. |
| 02:39.25 | javispedro | sighs |
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| 02:39.48 | javispedro | retires everything that he said a few hours ago about the platform |
| 02:39.57 | javispedro | stupid decision. |
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| 02:40.31 | MohammadAG | let's start rewriting! |
| 02:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | why? |
| 02:42.01 | javispedro | tries to unhaxxor the binary |
| 02:42.13 | DocScrutinizer | this UI is a nuissance anyway |
| 02:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | I bet you can't even operate it via kbd when you have aore retrofit one, hell I'm sure it won't even work properly with a mouse |
| 02:44.12 | DocScrutinizer | and I've heard nothing about real AV either |
| 02:44.24 | javispedro | this stuff has never really worked with amouse |
| 02:44.28 | DocScrutinizer | MHS? forget it |
| 02:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | MHD even |
| 02:45.46 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, I can't see a single reason why anybody would want to get a N9. All that might be interested in the concept already have a iPhone or droid hw |
| 02:46.14 | MohammadAG | you can always forward port hildon |
| 02:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | muhahaha |
| 02:46.26 | MohammadAG | personally, I like the 1GB RAM part |
| 02:46.30 | SpeedEvil | Or just boot meego on it |
| 02:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | blargh |
| 02:46.44 | MohammadAG | or install nitdroid /hides |
| 02:47.03 | DocScrutinizer | or cyanogen MUHAHAHA |
| 02:47.30 | MohammadAG | or Windows 8 |
| 02:47.42 | DocScrutinizer | no way, wrong root cert |
| 02:49.28 | javispedro | tadaa, ran the ugly meegohome |
| 02:49.53 | javispedro | you just need to remove SwipeDesktopView crap from /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/meegotouchhome.conf and it opens the ugly one |
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| 02:50.14 | javispedro | it looks uglier than usual, I guess this is because theme is broken. |
| 02:50.32 | DocScrutinizer | Rasterman hooked me on maemo with the N800 (or 770?) he had in TPE. I looked at that thing, at the desktop, at the mediaplayer, I checked out the N810 and seen the hw kbd, and I was sold. If thatthing had been a N9, not even back in 2008 I had uttered anything more than "meh" :shrug: |
| 02:50.34 | javispedro | but you can add whatever you want to this one. If you implement it, of course. |
| 02:52.08 | DocScrutinizer | I can do that on android and iOS as well |
| 02:52.21 | javispedro | technically not on ios. |
| 02:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | technically not on meego harmattan with aegis, been your text! |
| 02:53.42 | javispedro | I'm yet waiting to see what it will be used for. |
| 02:53.51 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
| 02:53.59 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, said oppenheimer |
| 02:55.01 | javispedro | obviously it will be used to drive russian nuke sites |
| 02:57.13 | javispedro | now I have to undo all this crap if I want to see swipe again =) |
| 02:57.31 | DocScrutinizer | you've seen that passage from manual: SDK for Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. In-device tools, such as a terminal application and Nokia Energy Profiler. Some of the tools have a graphical user interface and can be found with the other applications, others can only be used using a command-line interface. To disable the tools, select and Security > Developer mode, and deactivate Developer mode. Do not remove the tools. |
| 02:57.55 | DocScrutinizer | you bet standard apps esp commercial apps won't run in developer mode |
| 02:58.10 | javispedro | well |
| 02:58.13 | javispedro | we have positive examples |
| 02:58.17 | DocScrutinizer | so you can choose: angry birds or debug tools |
| 02:58.29 | javispedro | webos does have a developer mode and there's not even an visible API for it to be detected |
| 02:58.41 | javispedro | so angry birds cannot reject to run on that basis |
| 02:58.54 | javispedro | so as I was saying I'm waiting to see what Nokia uses it for. |
| 02:59.22 | javispedro | my hope: as RST said, aegis is something that does not need to work. it just needs to be there. |
| 02:59.25 | DocScrutinizer | it's not the point what nokia is using it for, each app developer can use it to lock the own app |
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| 02:59.40 | DocScrutinizer | ther'll be more and more apps that refuse to run in devel mode |
| 03:00.01 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I have added one example: no app in webos refuses to run in devel mode. |
| 03:00.14 | DocScrutinizer | webOS, OMG |
| 03:00.25 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I do not see why Rovio would be more evil on aegis than webos |
| 03:00.36 | DocScrutinizer | devel mode in webOS is terra incognita to me |
| 03:00.42 | DocScrutinizer | as is whole webOS |
| 03:01.33 | DocScrutinizer | maybe because webOS doen't have any proper security framework, and devel mode means something completely different for them? NFC |
| 03:01.52 | javispedro | but that's exactly my point |
| 03:01.57 | javispedro | they have an entire security framework |
| 03:02.04 | javispedro | they developed a cryptofs thing like aegisfs |
| 03:02.07 | javispedro | and it just sits there |
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| 03:02.10 | javispedro | unused |
| 03:02.18 | javispedro | or mostly unused |
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| 03:03.20 | DocScrutinizer | I am convinced thru knowledge that aegis MSSF is spawn from hell |
| 03:03.29 | javispedro | there's even a plain function call that says something along the lines of "is_my_app_pirated()" and is intented as a simple anticopy measure |
| 03:03.34 | javispedro | and no game uses it =) |
| 03:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | sw devel gasheads' fart, when industry fed them with too much BS with money souce on top |
| 03:07.34 | javispedro | lol |
| 03:07.39 | DocScrutinizer | probably N9 *must not* have video out, as that would break the "trust" for the platform, so couldn't playback DRM content |
| 03:07.44 | javispedro | aegis_system_open, aegis_system_protected =) |
| 03:07.58 | javispedro | aegis_current_mode() |
| 03:08.16 | javispedro | so, as I was saying, before panicing, let's wait and see what's the deal =) |
| 03:08.46 | DocScrutinizer | the deal is all the shit is in place ready to use |
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| 03:09.11 | DocScrutinizer | not really as *allegedly* they didn't implement full DRM |
| 03:09.41 | DocScrutinizer | developers.nokia.com/aegis or whatever the page states clearly diferent |
| 03:12.53 | DocScrutinizer | and it seems rather obvious we'd need a custom kernel again, at least for hostmode |
| 03:16.53 | DocScrutinizer | "we didn't see him aim at anybody yet with that M-134D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun mounted on his SUV's roof, so why be concerned there might be any danger with that?" |
| 03:17.30 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, why indeed. |
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| 03:18.49 | javispedro | warning: aegisSessionOpen() - failed to open platsec device (ret=-1) |
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| 03:19.13 | javispedro | "Aegis will now proceed to fire the M-134D. Please remain calm while we open several security holes on your skin." |
| 03:23.33 | javispedro | -sh: sudo: not found |
| 03:24.32 | javispedro | not coming with sudo is interesting. |
| 03:27.41 | jonwil | Anyone know who Joerg Reisenweber is? |
| 03:27.55 | DocScrutinizer | guess |
| 03:27.55 | jonwil | and what his nick is in here (if he has one)? |
| 03:27.56 | javispedro | noone really does, not even DocScrutinizer. |
| 03:28.21 | jonwil | hi, saw your emails |
| 03:28.41 | jonwil | My md5sum of my old libsms.so.0.0.0 matches the one you gave |
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| 03:28.53 | SpeedEvil | And mine |
| 03:29.15 | DocScrutinizer | then there's sth odd either with my hexedit or my ability to parse your instructions |
| 03:30.00 | jonwil | I can confirm that address 0x DD78 does contain the byte 0xFF |
| 03:30.01 | DocScrutinizer | could you run a cmp between yu rpatched version and the original? |
| 03:30.04 | Termana | Re: SIM cutting to microSIM cutting. I have a SIM that has a really small chip on it (it's a thin rectangle rather than a big square), anyone know if these still work in MicroSIM phones when cut? |
| 03:31.10 | DocScrutinizer | all normal sims work when cut to microSIM |
| 03:31.21 | DocScrutinizer | as long as you're careful |
| 03:31.44 | javispedro | file offset = 0xdd78 does contain 0xff here, same checksum as DocScrutinizer |
| 03:31.53 | jonwil | http://pastebin.com/HvRJVSju |
| 03:32.06 | jonwil | Those are the 3 bytes I changed |
| 03:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | maybe I start to lose neurons somewhere |
| 03:32.47 | jonwil | Also, Doc, was it you who said a clone of hald-addon-bme would be useful? |
| 03:33.08 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 03:33.39 | DocScrutinizer | not a clone but a version that talks to bq27200 rather than bme |
| 03:34.16 | javispedro | hal is opensource, deprecated but opensource |
| 03:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: what tool do you use to get bytevalue at offset 0xdd78 ? |
| 03:34.38 | javispedro | addons are basically little helpers that launch external processes or do some other fileio crap and then return a text file that hald uses to parse the device tree |
| 03:34.45 | javispedro | s/parse/Create |
| 03:35.15 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: well understood |
| 03:35.19 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: "od" =) |
| 03:35.26 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
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| 03:36.44 | javispedro | the gray bar thing looks like a mcompositor error |
| 03:36.58 | javispedro | it is assuming lack of a certain atom is not the same as having the atom but 0,0,0,0 |
| 03:37.00 | javispedro | oops. |
| 03:37.11 | javispedro | wins prize for best unprecedented change of context |
| 03:38.41 | DocScrutinizer | darn, NFC what went wrong when I used hexedit |
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| 03:38.51 | DocScrutinizer | all fine here |
| 03:39.26 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: could you toss over md5 of atched libsms.so? |
| 03:40.24 | jonwil | fff53e239c8a46c97015a8ef78f9e7ad |
| 03:40.27 | jonwil | Thats what I get |
| 03:40.29 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
| 03:40.34 | jonwil | is that what you get? |
| 03:41.33 | javispedro | sendSyntheticVisibilityEventsForOurBabies() |
| 03:41.55 | javispedro | ponders clicking thedailywtf.com ... |
| 03:43.07 | jonwil | as for hald-addon-bme, I am planning to create a clone (one that talks to libbmeipc and BME which someone can then adapt to talk directly to the charger chip. |
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| 03:47.44 | DocScrutinizer | NOW I'LL NUKE IT, THIS PILE OF SH*T! |
| 03:47.51 | DocScrutinizer | MESSYBOX |
| 03:48.23 | DocScrutinizer | of course awk is messybox. of course it doesn't know gsub function |
| 03:48.29 | Termana | BUSYBOX FTW! |
| 03:48.38 | Termana | ~nuke DocScrutinizer |
| 03:48.38 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
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| 03:48.45 | jonwil | as for Cell Broadcast SMS, I think I need to simply start copying code from ofono for the cell broadcast decode |
| 03:49.21 | Termana | heh |
| 03:50.08 | Termana | infobot, my light is about to blow, it is flickering - are you doing that? |
| 03:50.09 | infobot | Termana: okay |
| 03:50.43 | jonwil | Once I get my dumper decoding the CBSMS messages, I will upload it to my phone and go on a trip and have it dump as many CBSMS messages as I can find |
| 03:54.06 | jonwil | Time to go mess with ofono code |
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| 05:08.53 | jonwil | why wont this stupid tower send me a CBSMS message :( |
| 05:09.04 | ds3 | CBSMS? |
| 05:10.52 | jonwil | cell broadcast SMS |
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| 05:21.28 | jonwil | bah, cant get the tower to send me one at all even though it did yesterday :( |
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| 05:30.38 | jonwil | bah, stupid tower :( |
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| 05:42.07 | jonwil | bah, nothing I do gets it to send me a Cell Broadcast SMS :( |
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| 05:51.05 | SpeedEvil | Sometimes they are sent to warn of Tsunamis. |
| 05:51.10 | SpeedEvil | Maybe you could arrange one? |
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| 05:52.29 | jonwil | no, this tower should be sending identification CBSMS messages |
| 05:53.16 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I seem to still get same dbus msg as before. Nevertheless I want to try with your dbuscb.c. How to compile it? You generally should add your commands to and doc of output, otherwise it's ahrd to interpret and duplicate. Here a compile instruction would be nice |
| 05:54.00 | jonwil | I am working on improving the output |
| 05:54.06 | DocScrutinizer | s/and/any/. |
| 05:54.36 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in an improved output, I want to test if your cmd gives me any result at all |
| 05:54.48 | jonwil | The output is not really usable right now |
| 05:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't matter |
| 05:55.01 | jonwil | if I can get it to send me a CBSMS, I will be able to finish fixing it and get it to dump usable CBSMS |
| 05:55.41 | DocScrutinizer | fine, while I get meaningless dbus msgs here, and have no chance to test and duplicate your results :-/ |
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| 05:56.57 | DocScrutinizer | I think the patch does not work |
| 05:57.19 | jonwil | to compile the file you just need to link it with dbus |
| 05:57.45 | jonwil | something like gcc dbuscb.c -o dbuscb `pkg-config --libs --cflags dbus-1` |
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| 06:06.51 | jonwil | I think I need to take this on the road and go for a walk to see if I can get it to talk to another tower |
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| 06:10.26 | DocScrutinizer | ok, that patcher of mine is buggy |
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| 06:20.18 | Pillum | Ive got a problem with theme customizer and segoe ui light font |
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| 06:20.35 | Pillum | if I set the system font to "Segoe UI WP Light" |
| 06:20.48 | Pillum | and save the changes |
| 06:20.55 | Pillum | it reverts to a other font |
| 06:24.09 | SpeedEvil | ponders rsync as patch |
| 06:24.24 | SpeedEvil | though actually - that makes no sense |
| 06:25.32 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Wouldn't dd make more sense? |
| 06:25.47 | SpeedEvil | Simply md5sum to check, if it's right, dd single bytes |
| 06:26.08 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I suppose busybox dd is retarded |
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| 06:56.39 | DocScrutinizer | I don't know if dd can used like this, haven't thought about it yet |
| 06:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | but that script is still rather buggy, luckily it recovers |
| 06:57.17 | DocScrutinizer | od is buggy |
| 06:57.48 | DocScrutinizer | adds one bogus line with only addr at end, I noticed that but forgot to take measures |
| 06:58.13 | DocScrutinizer | plus there are also typos and a semantic error in it |
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| 06:59.04 | DocScrutinizer | just catched a correctly patched lib inmidst of the process, only has a bogus additional byte at end |
| 06:59.08 | DocScrutinizer | testing |
| 06:59.17 | DocScrutinizer | fixed patchscript later |
| 06:59.33 | DocScrutinizer | or you try to find the bugs ;-D |
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| 07:07.30 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/121022/ looks gooooood |
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| 07:21.37 | DocScrutinizer | great, busybox od sucks as well |
| 07:22.07 | DocScrutinizer | I actualy wonder if there's a single cmd in busybox that's *not* crippled and sucks |
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| 07:29.02 | RST38h | OMFG... |
| 07:29.09 | RST38h | Doc: Want fun? |
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| 07:49.35 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: Is this fun open to anyone? |
| 07:52.29 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you got surplus? |
| 07:53.34 | DocScrutinizer | I have more fun than a single IT-dude can deal with, with busybox etc atm |
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| 07:59.04 | RST38h | SpeedEvil,Doc: Yes, open to anyone but make sure you have noteaten recently |
| 07:59.31 | RST38h | Anyway, suppose you write native code for Android. This is bound to include at least a few JNI functions. |
| 08:00.01 | RST38h | The fun is, each JNI function name is supposed_to_include_full_java_package_name |
| 08:00.41 | RST38h | So, if you would like to write code reusable from multiple applications, you are in for some pain =) |
| 08:01.03 | SpeedEvil | ick. |
| 08:01.42 | RST38h | as I said, make sure you have not eaten |
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| 08:05.17 | DocScrutinizer | darn would this be easy in a proper coding language, using f=fopen("/usr/lib/libsms.so", "r+"), fseek(f, 0xddf6,SEEK_SET), write(f, "\0x53",1), close(f) |
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| 08:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: andridiot? I'm immune to attacks from this direction |
| 08:08.58 | DocScrutinizer | I'm just amazed not every name has to start with GOOGLE_ |
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| 08:34.28 | RST38h | Doc: Well, given how widespread it is, I am porting my stuff to it. And so far, it feels pretty pathetic =( |
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| 08:34.56 | SpeedEvil | Does anyone happen to have seen any datestamps of any form on the n950 hw? |
| 08:35.14 | RST38h | Doc: Have not yet decided if it is worse or the same as Symbian in terms of butthurt |
| 08:35.49 | SpeedEvil | Well - android will be around >2014 |
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| 08:40.56 | SpeedEvil | Oooh. That reminds me. |
| 08:41.10 | SpeedEvil | goes and submits the n9 to blendteks 'stuff to blend' page. |
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| 08:54.09 | kerio | SpeedEvil: so we can see the internals? |
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| 08:54.36 | SpeedEvil | adds Elop to the list. |
| 08:55.56 | RST38h | list of what? |
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| 08:57.30 | SpeedEvil | http://www.willitblend.com/suggestions.aspx |
| 08:58.03 | kerio | elop is the kind of person you don't really want to see dead |
| 08:58.10 | kerio | but you do want to bitchslap *hard* |
| 08:58.50 | RST38h | Speed: Ah, that... Isn't that going to be too toxic? |
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| 09:12.31 | cloudyLights | morning |
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| 09:26.28 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: javispedro: MohammadAG: X-Fade is working on getting Harmattan SDK into build.pub.meego.com, so community apps will end up in apps.meego.com |
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| 09:38.13 | jonwil | Good job with the decoding DocScrutinizer |
| 09:39.00 | alterego | I think today I'm gonna setup my blog again. |
| 09:39.45 | alterego | 8 |
| 09:39.55 | jonwil | what is your blog about? |
| 09:40.33 | alterego | It was mostly about maemo |
| 09:40.44 | alterego | But it'll be mostly about meego now |
| 09:41.32 | jonwil | ok |
| 09:41.34 | SpeedEvil | harmattan? |
| 09:42.24 | jonwil | I have some code to finish and then tomorrow I will be heading to the 4 points of the compass trying to make my phone talk to as many Optus GSM towers as possible |
| 09:42.36 | jonwil | and to get Cell Broadcast SMS messages for the tower name from those towers |
| 09:42.38 | jonwil | for my logs |
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| 09:42.56 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: yeah, we now would need an app that links in to system dbus and listens to these msgs. Then, on receiving such a msg, looks up in a list of subscribed channels (seems there are max 0..999) if it is relevant, if so it decodes the PDU and does with it whatever due: open a screen to display it instantly, put it to conversations as new msg, write it to a system area applet to e.g update "homezone"... |
| 09:43.54 | Jaffa | Does anyone know if there's a #ifdef Q_OS_HARMATTAN or something? |
| 09:46.02 | alterego | Jaffa: no there isn't one. |
| 09:46.07 | RST38h | Jaffa: not extras.maemo.org then? |
| 09:46.24 | Jaffa | alterego: Is it possible to detect whether or not certain QML libraries (e.g. com.nokia.meego) will be available? |
| 09:46.27 | alterego | Not sure if it has the same Q_WS_MAEMO flag though .. |
| 09:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: of course such app needs a config screen to un/subscribe to channels, and to define what to do with the message when a new one comes in. |
| 09:46.55 | alterego | Jaffa: from pure qml no, you might need to make a plugin youself to do the detection. |
| 09:47.02 | Jaffa | alterego: I can run my root item for Attitude as the initialPage of a PageStackWindow, but I want to know whether or not that'll work |
| 09:47.18 | Jaffa | alterego: Not from pure QML, but from C++? |
| 09:47.34 | alterego | I heard qt components was supposed to provide that functionality at some point too .. |
| 09:48.00 | alterego | Jaffa: the only way to do it would currently be from C++ :/ |
| 09:48.15 | Jaffa | alterego: Complex C++? |
| 09:48.27 | Jaffa | alterego: But that still depends on having Components :-/ |
| 09:48.33 | alterego | Or providing qml with the right interfaces. |
| 09:48.36 | jonwil | The plan I had was (at least initially) to have a hildon-desktop widget (same thing as what the battery widget and other things are) that would wire up to IncomingCBS and listen for incoming messages |
| 09:48.38 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: the dbus monitoring could be done by dbus scripts app, as it is kinda default for all sorts of such tasks, so we'd not need to include that code to another process |
| 09:48.40 | Jaffa | alterego: And the fact that the imports vary by platform is, TBH, completely FUBAR |
| 09:48.46 | Jaffa | alterego: "right interfaces"? |
| 09:48.53 | alterego | Jaffa: It's not hard at all |
| 09:49.02 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: (keep memeory footprint small for standard) |
| 09:49.04 | jonwil | oh ok, so there is a standard thing that can do the dbus logging, that's great |
| 09:49.14 | alterego | Jaffa: yeah, you can expose a library querying object to qml |
| 09:49.30 | jonwil | in any case right now I just need to get my dump program working right so I can collect cell tower names from as many towers as possible |
| 09:49.33 | Jaffa | alterego: General initial direction? |
| 09:49.36 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: yep, search in repos for dbus scripting |
| 09:50.11 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 09:50.28 | DocScrutinizer | it segfaulted for me, after several minutes |
| 09:50.44 | DocScrutinizer | (dbuscb) |
| 09:51.03 | RST38h | Jaffa: Please, clarify: do Harmattan apps go into maemo.org repos or into meego.com? |
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| 09:51.28 | Jaffa | RST38h: I'm 99.9% certain it'll be meego.com |
| 09:51.37 | RST38h | Jaffa: Oh. More trouble. |
| 09:52.13 | Jaffa | RST38h: If someone puts a .spec file alongside debian.tar.gz it'll be possible to produce an RPM for an app targetting MeeGo CE (say) and Harmattan |
| 09:52.33 | RST38h | Jaffa: Not kind of trouble I had in mind |
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| 09:53.11 | alterego | obs is better anyway |
| 09:53.18 | RST38h | Jaffa: My fear is that meego.com's actual governing body (which is Intel, right?) will start creating problems for Harmattan there |
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| 09:53.44 | RST38h | Jaffa: Would be much safer to keep things at maemo.org |
| 09:53.49 | alterego | RST38h: neah, they'll have very little to say on the matter. |
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| 09:57.22 | alterego | It's just an obs target, tbh |
| 09:57.47 | Jaffa | RST38h: The TSG & LF have already signed off on it |
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| 09:59.26 | alterego | I might setup, my own though :D |
| 10:00.35 | Venemo | good morning |
| 10:01.02 | jonwil | So for display of Cell Broadcast SMS messages, I think we need a homescreen widget similar to the operator name widget that displays the cell tower name |
| 10:01.08 | jonwil | i.e. channel 50 |
| 10:01.48 | jonwil | some sort of notification widget like the one that shows when you get a regular SMS |
| 10:01.55 | alterego | Yay, another widget that'll drain battery :P |
| 10:02.16 | jonwil | You dont HAVE to have cell broadcast support if you dont want to |
| 10:02.39 | alterego | I know. So? |
| 10:02.44 | alterego | Just saying :P |
| 10:04.10 | robbiethe1st | Well, actually, a properly designed widget should only update when the home screen is shown, so... |
| 10:04.24 | robbiethe1st | only power's taken when the home screen's active and screen's on |
| 10:07.02 | alterego | robbiethe1st: it should, but that's clearly not what they're talking about here .. |
| 10:07.20 | robbiethe1st | um, really? |
| 10:07.36 | jonwil | This is a status bar widget |
| 10:07.39 | jonwil | like the operator name |
| 10:07.44 | jonwil | or the battery meter |
| 10:07.50 | alterego | m'hmm |
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| 10:08.11 | alterego | starts sketching out USSD menu support |
| 10:08.26 | robbiethe1st | Well, still, only draining power when the window isn't maximized, and(more importantly) when the screen is on |
| 10:09.00 | alterego | We'll see |
| 10:09.13 | jonwil | What are you planning to do with USSD? |
| 10:09.22 | alterego | Implement it |
| 10:09.40 | alterego | USSD is missing from the meego reference dialer |
| 10:09.54 | jonwil | ok, so does the cell modem and ofono telephony stack support the right bits? |
| 10:09.58 | alterego | It's a pretty easy feature to add, but meh. |
| 10:10.08 | alterego | Oh course it does. |
| 10:10.16 | alterego | Of .. |
| 10:10.19 | jonwil | what is USSD anyway? |
| 10:10.46 | alterego | universal service subscriptions osmething or other |
| 10:11.02 | alterego | Basically, it handles the *#0000# codes |
| 10:11.12 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 10:11.30 | alterego | Some can report your balance, others you can configure things, like call waiting, diverts, etc. |
| 10:13.00 | alterego | t.m.o has been _really_ boring since the N9 |
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| 10:25.28 | alterego | New theory, the "Sea Ray" demonstration by Elop was him trying to save his job? |
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| 10:33.40 | cloudyLights | ~seen khertan |
| 10:33.48 | infobot | khertan <~khertan@nax2.naxos-fr.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 19h 21m 10s ago, saying: 'must go on .... bye everyone'. |
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| 10:55.08 | cloudyLights | ~seen MohammadAG? |
| 10:55.09 | infobot | mohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 405 messages. Is idling for 8h 7m 39s, last said: 'or Windows 8'. |
| 10:55.21 | cloudyLights | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:55.32 | jonwil | BINGO, my cell broadcast dumper WORKS |
| 10:55.44 | jonwil | Now tommorow I can go out and run it and get lots of logging of cell towers |
| 10:55.45 | cloudyLights | show me pls |
| 10:55.55 | jonwil | show you what? |
| 10:56.07 | cloudyLights | I also need to know what tower I am using now |
| 10:56.22 | cloudyLights | to wake me up on the bus as I come near |
| 10:56.31 | cloudyLights | can you share the code? |
| 10:56.38 | jonwil | not very user friendly yet |
| 10:56.46 | jonwil | once the proper UI comes out, it will be good |
| 10:56.51 | jonwil | but right now its just so I can test some stuff |
| 10:57.08 | cloudyLights | jonwil: I dont need a UI |
| 10:57.16 | cloudyLights | is it in C? |
| 10:57.54 | jonwil | its not very clean and uses hacked up ofono code |
| 10:58.03 | jonwil | so its not really distributable yet |
| 10:58.53 | cloudyLights | no problem with me |
| 10:59.13 | cloudyLights | I am also hacking my way with the N900 |
| 11:00.33 | cloudyLights | hmm.. the N900 supports ofono? |
| 11:00.43 | cloudyLights | was thinking only meego does that |
| 11:01.03 | cloudyLights | also saw somthing about tower info in the qT |
| 11:01.19 | psycho_oreos | there's a few apps for that in extras-devel |
| 11:01.19 | cloudyLights | but its a cheap way to know where yu are |
| 11:01.24 | cloudyLights | cheapper then gps |
| 11:01.39 | cloudyLights | but ofono is the right way I think |
| 11:01.41 | jonwil | http://pastebin.com/qYSVA91r |
| 11:01.54 | jonwil | Thats the code that I am using |
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| 11:02.14 | jonwil | You need to link it to the smsutil.c and util.c files from ofono |
| 11:02.33 | cloudyLights | o yuo read it from dbus! |
| 11:02.41 | cloudyLights | so I can do it in python |
| 11:02.43 | jonwil | Plus you also need the libsms patch that has been posted to the mailing list |
| 11:02.48 | cloudyLights | as I would preffer |
| 11:03.30 | jonwil | if you have the right libsms changes from the -devel mailing list (the 3 bytes |
| 11:03.40 | jonwil | then my code will work |
| 11:05.48 | jonwil | cool, my code works, it dumped 2 different tower names |
| 11:06.02 | jonwil | I am obviously fairly similar distances from both towers |
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| 11:06.24 | jonwil | tommorow I go as far as the bus/train system can take me |
| 11:06.27 | jonwil | with logging running |
| 11:06.33 | jonwil | and hope I get lots of tower names |
| 11:06.48 | jonwil | and also that my cbsms.log file doesnt fill up my /var memory space |
| 11:07.12 | merlin1991 | jonwil: write to mydocs? |
| 11:07.21 | jonwil | hmmm good call |
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| 11:10.41 | jonwil | ok, just need to test it now :) |
| 11:10.58 | jonwil | make sure it writes where it needs to |
| 11:12.27 | jonwil | ok, works |
| 11:12.29 | jonwil | writes to /home/user/MyDocs |
| 11:12.40 | jonwil | no worries about running out of space in an important place |
| 11:14.24 | DocScrutinizer | (<alterego> USSD is missing from the meego reference dialer) HAHAHA again?! |
| 11:14.39 | jonwil | Now I can go out tomorrow with my dumper running and my phone in my pocket/bag and I will get a nice fat log |
| 11:14.44 | jrayhawk | otwieracz: Squeeze seems to work okay on Deblet aside from udev, which should be held or downgraded to lenny. |
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| 11:15.43 | DocScrutinizer | U(ser, nsolicited) Supplementary Service Data |
| 11:16.03 | DocScrutinizer | and no *#0000# is for sure sth else |
| 11:16.30 | DocScrutinizer | *#111# is a correct example |
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| 11:18.53 | DocScrutinizer | cloudyLights: you definitely don't want to use SMSCB for location services, as it's sometimes only sent every other minute, sometimes even more infrequently |
| 11:19.44 | DocScrutinizer | have a look into netmon app, and see how CID is queried from modem - that's WAY faster and more reliable than SMSCB |
| 11:19.45 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: actually no, even codes that are completely locally are usually handled by the modem, like *#06# |
| 11:19.57 | alterego | And they are handled in the same way as anyother USSD ;) |
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| 11:20.04 | DocScrutinizer | not USSD though |
| 11:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | *#06# never |
| 11:20.14 | alterego | There is literally no distinction |
| 11:20.18 | DocScrutinizer | it's a local SSC |
| 11:20.41 | alterego | There really isn't a difference. |
| 11:21.02 | DocScrutinizer | for SSC N900 maemo needs starhash enabler, while USSD (>2 digits) works without |
| 11:21.07 | alterego | For all you or anyone knows, the calls are going to the network, just because they get interpreted by the modem is by-the-by |
| 11:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | uhih |
| 11:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh! even |
| 11:21.32 | alterego | But meh, whatever :) |
| 11:21.55 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: sorry, but on that topic this level of discussion is way off the facts |
| 11:22.23 | DocScrutinizer | there's a clear distinction between SSC and USSD |
| 11:22.53 | DocScrutinizer | and *#0000# is no true USSD at all |
| 11:23.23 | alterego | In related news, is *#0000# a GSM spec? |
| 11:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | *#06# is even a SSC and no USSD, and it's also no OTA *service* code |
| 11:23.29 | alterego | I know 06 is required, |
| 11:23.31 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 11:23.35 | jrayhawk | otwieracz: the dist upgrade took a mere seven hours! |
| 11:23.42 | SpeedEvil | I've done *#06 with no service |
| 11:23.45 | DocScrutinizer | *#0000# is Nokia |
| 11:23.51 | alterego | Yeah, that's what I thought |
| 11:24.05 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: as *#06# is a local pseudo code |
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| 11:24.12 | alterego | I used to have a list of all of these codes, but can't remember where I put them, or if they're even still on any HDD somewhere. |
| 11:24.20 | SpeedEvil | yes, I know. |
| 11:24.30 | DocScrutinizer | whatever |
| 11:25.41 | alterego | listens to the engadget podcast |
| 11:25.56 | alterego | This should be a laugh |
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| 11:35.05 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, interested in SMSCB in python, anyone? |
| 11:36.43 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: http://paste.debian.net/121050/ |
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| 11:40.06 | jonwil | nice one :) |
| 11:45.31 | DocScrutinizer | adding a notifier |
| 11:46.31 | DocScrutinizer | python - anybody help me out? |
| 11:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:46.42 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | SyntaxError: invalid syntax |
| 11:47.23 | Shapeshifter | elif |
| 11:47.31 | DocScrutinizer | oooh thanks |
| 11:47.59 | jacekowski | smscb? |
| 11:48.51 | jacekowski | yeah, so it is working |
| 11:49.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/121052/ |
| 11:49.38 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 11:49.51 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil fixed it :-) |
| 11:49.58 | MohammadAG | morning |
| 11:50.01 | DocScrutinizer | 3 byte hack |
| 11:50.08 | DocScrutinizer | moo moh |
| 11:50.08 | jonwil | I found the 3-byte patch to libsms |
| 11:50.10 | jonwil | yep |
| 11:50.23 | DocScrutinizer | brilliant work |
| 11:50.59 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, what about libs and such? I don't get where they'll end up |
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| 11:52.19 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: What do you mean? They'll end up in the repos |
| 11:52.41 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, so it'll work in the same way as -devel |
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| 11:58.09 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I'm failing epically on teaching busybox to patch three bytes in a binary. --- how's about *you* publish that executable like: f=fopen("/usr/lib/libsms.so", "r+"), fseek(f, 0xddf6,SEEK_SET), write(f, "\0x53",1), close(f) |
| 11:59.12 | MohammadAG | In other news, you can't downgrade N950s |
| 11:59.14 | jonwil | yeah good call, I can write that |
| 11:59.35 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: it's your patch, yur fame :-) |
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| 12:00.22 | MohammadAG | how far can binary patching be taken? |
| 12:00.34 | alterego | How do you extract the fiasco image from the N950 firmware? |
| 12:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | till online hot kernel upgrades ;-P |
| 12:01.03 | Hurrian | alterego flasher -F emmc/img.bin -u=dir |
| 12:01.11 | MohammadAG | alterego, run it without an N950, you'll find it in /tmp/selfextract |
| 12:01.17 | DocScrutinizer | there's a whole company earning money with that |
| 12:01.27 | MohammadAG | don't CTRL+C, it cleans up |
| 12:01.38 | alterego | MohammadAG: sweet, yeah I was kust wondering where it put it's tmp files ;) |
| 12:01.39 | alterego | Thanks |
| 12:02.30 | DocScrutinizer | hihi, had a similar issue with my own cleanup, for that 3byte patcher |
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| 12:09.52 | Juozapas | is there any way to see vimeo videos on browser? |
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| 12:17.19 | mva | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12292 |
| 12:17.20 | povbot | 04Bug 12292: Crashing on changes in icons grid. |
| 12:17.43 | mva | anyone has this thing? :) |
| 12:20.04 | woodong50_______ | what thing |
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| 12:27.58 | jonwil | so yeah tonight I will finish cloning hald-addon-bme (well cloning minus all the syslog calls which dont really matter :P) |
| 12:28.15 | jonwil | then someone can take my clone and adapt it to work right on the hardware with no libbmeipc in the way |
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| 12:39.19 | Venemo | jonwil, what is hald-addon-bme? |
| 12:39.55 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: No, it'll work the same way as -testing. Devel is replaced with personal home repos, like PPAs |
| 12:41.18 | RST38h | What are personal home repos? |
| 12:41.19 | Venemo | Jaffa, you referring to Harmattan? |
| 12:41.25 | MohammadAG | Oh |
| 12:41.29 | MohammadAG | RST38h, OBS |
| 12:41.36 | RST38h | You mean, if I am using 10 packages from -devel, I will have to enable 10 repos? |
| 12:41.48 | Jaffa | RST38h: Each person with an OBS account gets something like https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Ajaffa |
| 12:41.56 | MohammadAG | if they're by one devel each |
| 12:42.02 | Jaffa | RST38h: Roughly, yes. |
| 12:42.32 | FIQ|n900 | that seems way too overkill |
| 12:42.59 | Jaffa | FIQ|n900: Why? |
| 12:43.08 | RST38h | Jaffa: Umgh. |
| 12:43.10 | Jaffa | What's the overhead? |
| 12:43.27 | RST38h | No single -devel repo isn't good =( |
| 12:43.33 | Jaffa | FIQ|n900: And, more to the point, how do you track one piece of s/w in development whilst tracking the end-release of others? |
| 12:43.41 | RST38h | I mean, where will we all shit? |
| 12:44.15 | Venemo | RST38h, you can shit wherever you want to |
| 12:44.22 | MohammadAG | each person will have a toilet on their own |
| 12:44.36 | Venemo | MohammadAG :D |
| 12:44.45 | RST38h | Yes, but if I collect shit, will I have to become the toilet bandit? =) |
| 12:44.57 | Venemo | RST38h, yep |
| 12:45.00 | MohammadAG | more like the toilet collector |
| 12:45.11 | RST38h | Naaah, please bring back the -devel |
| 12:45.17 | Venemo | MohammadAG :D :D |
| 12:45.29 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, can it do debs as of now? |
| 12:45.38 | MohammadAG | also, Harmattan's Qt seems buggy |
| 12:45.42 | robbiethe1st | Seems like dependancies would be a nightmare... |
| 12:45.45 | FIQ|n900 | i understand your point but i still think it's better to just have them clearly seperated, maybe with -dev suffix to prevent the common problem with -devel in maemo where packages likes to update to devel version when enabling it |
| 12:46.14 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: X-Fade has been working on it all week, since the SDK was unveiled. Not sure how far from completion it is. Didn't sound like far. |
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| 12:46.39 | robbiethe1st | FIQ: apt-pinning. You'd just need to have the default set with a very low priority on -devel so it won't auto-upgrade |
| 12:46.59 | FIQ|n900 | Yes, i know |
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| 12:47.31 | FIQ|n900 | But still, why having seperate repositories for every single package/application? |
| 12:47.48 | robbiethe1st | I agree with that |
| 12:48.00 | robbiethe1st | One repo + apt-pinning's a better idea |
| 12:48.06 | FIQ|n900 | And god knows what happens if something in the "dev" area depends on something else in same area |
| 12:48.08 | robbiethe1st | that way dependancies can be calculated. |
| 12:48.17 | robbiethe1st | Exactly |
| 12:48.35 | robbiethe1st | Repos are supposed to be basically self-contained, or at least additive |
| 12:48.55 | RST38h | AFAIK, no |
| 12:49.01 | robbiethe1st | i.e. main, universe, multiverse etc. |
| 12:49.02 | RST38h | no direct requirement of this kind |
| 12:49.11 | RST38h | ah,you mean Ubuntu repos |
| 12:49.24 | robbiethe1st | Or debian, but the same concept stands |
| 12:49.41 | robbiethe1st | There was a free/non-free section at least |
| 12:49.46 | Jaffa | This approach *has* worked well for MeeGo so far (not many apps, of course) and - more importantly - Ubuntu. |
| 12:49.48 | FIQ|n900 | all distros i've used have something like that |
| 12:49.54 | FIQ|n900 | none had such thing |
| 12:49.55 | robbiethe1st | and you can bet the non-free stuff relied on free stuff as well |
| 12:50.34 | robbiethe1st | PPAs are only OK when the owner of the distro CBF to add random packages, or allow others to add them, like in Ubuntu |
| 12:50.54 | robbiethe1st | most stuff makes it in, sure, but... |
| 12:50.55 | *** join/#maemo Roomerlol (~Roomerlol@95-28-69-107.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 12:51.30 | MohammadAG | I'm more interested in why Sociality fails to start, when it works on all Qt devices |
| 12:51.40 | MohammadAG | /usr/bin/meego-run: line 30: 2435 Segmentation fault (core dumped) "$@" |
| 12:52.48 | FIQ|n900 | tried out MeeGo a bit yesterday and today |
| 12:53.03 | FIQ|n900 | "meego isin't in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported" noooes |
| 12:53.16 | FIQ|n900 | isn't* lol |
| 12:54.15 | MohammadAG | su root and use password meego |
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| 12:55.49 | FIQ|n900 | ah |
| 12:55.51 | FIQ|n900 | fine |
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| 12:59.07 | FIQ|n900 | does the APN settings work at all btw? |
| 12:59.20 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.72.68) |
| 12:59.21 | FIQ|n900 | (i.e. can you do networking with 3G yet?) |
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| 13:02.25 | MohammadAG | not sure, ask on #meego-arm |
| 13:02.40 | divan | finally succeeded with music identifying app using echoprint codegenerator on N900 =) |
| 13:03.12 | divan | It just recognized Radiohead song by 25 seconds recorded with n900 microphone |
| 13:03.22 | Jaffa | divan: Cool |
| 13:03.57 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Have you installed Harmattan Platform SDK on top of Fremantle in Scratchbox? How did you do it - did the installer sort it all out properly? |
| 13:04.15 | Jaffa | The qemu image is *far* too slow to be useful for development :-( |
| 13:04.22 | FIQ|n900 | Hmm |
| 13:04.38 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, I used javispedro's notes |
| 13:04.40 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@177.40.189.224) |
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| 13:04.51 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/cS5MA88D |
| 13:04.55 | lcuk | Jaffa, why? |
| 13:05.02 | lcuk | make it work fast there etc :P |
| 13:05.41 | MohammadAG | this is annoying though http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vhMdx7YL |
| 13:05.53 | MohammadAG | there's no reason for it to do that, besides the Harmattan Qt being buggy |
| 13:06.11 | Venemo | MohammadAG, MAssembly: Stylesheet missing "/usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/sociality/style/sociality.css" |
| 13:06.18 | Venemo | that tells something |
| 13:06.50 | MohammadAG | not a reason to segfault Venemo |
| 13:06.51 | MohammadAG | the errors following that are more interesting |
| 13:07.02 | Venemo | the X error is always a reason to segfault |
| 13:07.22 | MohammadAG | nope, seems to happen a lot |
| 13:07.49 | Venemo | well, at my brief experience with Xlib, when I do something bad, it gives me an X error and crashes. |
| 13:08.54 | MohammadAG | Venemo, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=i6baNEeq |
| 13:09.19 | Venemo | heh, how ridiculous is that |
| 13:09.45 | MohammadAG | Venemo, but that works :P |
| 13:09.49 | MohammadAG | Sociality doesn't |
| 13:09.52 | Venemo | seems that the QMaemo6Style is buggy crap |
| 13:10.00 | MohammadAG | if I gdb it, it shows something about sensors, which I don't even use |
| 13:10.07 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, does Mobility work for you? |
| 13:11.49 | *** join/#maemo wicket64 (~blancalu@81-86-240-143.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 13:12.47 | MohammadAG | Venemo, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=q50R79X4 |
| 13:13.04 | FIQ|n900 | actually managed to compile Lua (as a test of advanced C/C++ compiling) successfully after his tries of compiling node.js, so whatever the problem is/was, it wasn't related to the SDK installation |
| 13:13.05 | Venemo | hm |
| 13:13.07 | Venemo | how weird |
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| 13:13.44 | MohammadAG | hmm, /me tries to skip the login window |
| 13:14.56 | MohammadAG | it works! :D |
| 13:14.56 | MohammadAG | Seems like QWebView is buggy |
| 13:15.34 | MohammadAG | hmm, scrolling seems slow int he SDK |
| 13:15.38 | MohammadAG | but at least it's working |
| 13:16.28 | Jaffa | lcuk: I'll assume you haven't tried it. There's nothing I can do in my code to make it faster. |
| 13:16.40 | MohammadAG | Sociality looks surprisingly nice in the SDK |
| 13:16.57 | MohammadAG | the gray bar needs to be removed though |
| 13:17.21 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Not tried Mobility beyond Sensors yet. |
| 13:17.42 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, seems like a QWebPage always segfaults |
| 13:17.45 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Grey bar is fixed with app.setProperty("NoMStyle", true); |
| 13:18.07 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, does that make the app lose the QStyle? |
| 13:18.11 | MohammadAG | it's not QML |
| 13:18.23 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: No idea if it loses the QStyle |
| 13:18.45 | FIQ|n900 | is there a standalone flash player for N900? |
| 13:18.56 | FIQ|n900 | tried to google it a bit, but failed |
| 13:20.09 | MohammadAG | I dislike how there's no X button in the window manager |
| 13:20.09 | MohammadAG | and dialogs don't work in the SDK |
| 13:20.38 | FIQ|n900 | microB works fine, but i want proper fullscreen |
| 13:20.54 | MohammadAG | I'll package it up and ship to meego.com, maybe qgil can prove otherwise on a device |
| 13:21.09 | MohammadAG | FIQ|n900, there's an app, don't remember it's name |
| 13:21.33 | FIQ|n900 | oh, think i found something |
| 13:21.36 | FIQ|n900 | Kmplayer? |
| 13:22.14 | MohammadAG | no |
| 13:22.18 | FIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 13:22.22 | MohammadAG | it was for flash games afaik |
| 13:22.27 | FIQ|n900 | what are you thinking of then? |
| 13:22.51 | Macer | cutetube! |
| 13:22.54 | Macer | heh jk |
| 13:23.02 | FIQ|n900 | yes, it's a game i want to play :p |
| 13:23.05 | MohammadAG | that's not flash |
| 13:23.28 | MohammadAG | I don't remotely remember the name :/ |
| 13:24.09 | FIQ|n900 | too bad |
| 13:25.22 | FIQ|n900 | kmplayer actually worked, but the resolution seems like 640x480 for some reason |
| 13:25.47 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 13:25.52 | FIQ|n900 | so the text is too small |
| 13:27.00 | javispedro | moorning |
| 13:27.14 | Termana | javispedro, morning |
| 13:27.20 | FIQ|n900 | no, that thing didn't work well at all |
| 13:27.27 | Macer | you can't run it through a resize filter? |
| 13:27.35 | FIQ|n900 | actually better perfomance but no cursor |
| 13:27.39 | Macer | and run it at a lower res? |
| 13:27.54 | Macer | to make it bigger |
| 13:28.16 | FIQ|n900 | Macer, nvm as kmplayer didn't worked well at all |
| 13:28.37 | FIQ|n900 | (the size is no problem in microB) |
| 13:28.42 | Macer | oh |
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| 13:28.58 | javispedro | Jaffa: MohammadAG: the gray bar at the bottom is supposed to show back/close buttons |
| 13:29.38 | FIQ|n900 | MohammadAG, flashlauncher? |
| 13:29.55 | javispedro | no idea why it does not. either it is a bug (it should assume lack of mtf atoms means it is a standard app, instead of showing empty bar) or just part of the usual hate versus non MTF apps. |
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| 13:32.04 | MohammadAG | Q_WS_MAEMO_6 is used for Haramattan right? |
| 13:32.14 | Venemo | I think so |
| 13:34.25 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: No |
| 13:34.56 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: http://twitter.com/#!/vivainio/status/84926068137525249 |
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| 13:36.44 | Venemo | Jaffa, #define MEEGO_FLAVOR=harmattan ---> this is not even valid C++ |
| 13:37.29 | javispedro | it is valid on the gcc cmd line (as -D) , which is what probably the guy was subconsciously thinking |
| 13:37.42 | Venemo | maybe. |
| 13:37.56 | Jaffa | Venemo: What javispedro says. |
| 13:38.23 | Jaffa | It's pretty easy to parse "You can check for [a] #define [of] MEEGO_FLAVOUR [which] = 'harmattan'" |
| 13:38.29 | Venemo | mhm |
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| 13:40.29 | Termana | rages |
| 13:40.44 | Venemo | does #if MEEGO_FLAVOUR == "harmattan" even work? |
| 13:40.45 | javispedro | is interested in this MEEGO_LOW_POWER_MODE stuff =) |
| 13:41.36 | javispedro | Venemo: usually, the two defines exist, so you can compare them as ints |
| 13:42.01 | MohammadAG | heh, what's CTR:L+Z again? SIGSTOP? |
| 13:42.03 | ShadowJK | javispedro, if it's like symbian it kills keyboard leds and locks screen brightness to lowest |
| 13:42.06 | ShadowJK | ;) |
| 13:42.13 | alterego | Interesting, so the N950 comes with the SDK installers on the eMMC :D |
| 13:42.26 | MohammadAG | alterego, online installers |
| 13:42.31 | MohammadAG | check the size, 23MBs |
| 13:42.38 | MohammadAG | waits for pffft |
| 13:42.45 | alterego | Yeah, I noticed. |
| 13:42.47 | alterego | That is a bit lame. |
| 13:42.48 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: yes |
| 13:42.52 | javispedro | MohammadAG: what size is the MyDocs partition? |
| 13:43.01 | MohammadAG | rest |
| 13:43.07 | MohammadAG | 4GBs for / |
| 13:43.10 | MohammadAG | 2GBs for /home |
| 13:43.15 | javispedro | but total is not known? |
| 13:43.40 | MohammadAG | rest is "mmc2" |
| 13:44.15 | DocScrutinizer | moo javispedro |
| 13:44.31 | javispedro | moo DocScrutinizer |
| 13:44.42 | MohammadAG | _MEEGOTOUCH_VISIBLE_IN_SWITCHER(CARDINAL) = 0 <-- at least we know how to hide windows now |
| 13:44.52 | MohammadAG | 64 afaik |
| 13:45.05 | DocScrutinizer | you noticed jonwil patched the libsms.so for good? :-D http://paste.debian.net/121054/ |
| 13:45.05 | javispedro | ShadowJK: I think this is the infamous "alwayson" lock screen on N9 with AMOLED |
| 13:45.06 | *** join/#maemo wicket64 (~wicket64@81-86-240-143.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 13:45.14 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: ^^ |
| 13:45.26 | MohammadAG | is the settings app QML? |
| 13:46.08 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, power saving mode on Symbian^3 also switches from 3G to 2G |
| 13:46.13 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: and I failed epically on trying to patch those 3 bytes in libsms.so via a messybox script ;-P |
| 13:46.21 | javispedro | no wonder |
| 13:46.24 | ShadowJK | MohammadAG, lol, awesome |
| 13:46.27 | javispedro | but there must be some binary patching tool around |
| 13:46.38 | ShadowJK | dd? |
| 13:47.04 | Venemo | I wonder how that "alwayson" lock screen will work on the N950's TFT LCD |
| 13:47.05 | RST38h | Hello, gentlemen |
| 13:47.21 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I also thought there must be a binary mode in patch, or another tool for that, but none |
| 13:47.22 | ShadowJK | Venemo, no :) |
| 13:47.23 | RST38h | is back after an exciting battle with the lighting fixture |
| 13:47.31 | Venemo | ShadowJK ? |
| 13:47.33 | ShadowJK | Venemo, well it "works", but eats power? |
| 13:47.43 | RST38h | javispedro, ShadowJK: Moo. |
| 13:47.44 | Venemo | ShadowJK, ah... |
| 13:47.55 | ShadowJK | moo |
| 13:48.04 | DocScrutinizer | ~mooo |
| 13:48.11 | Venemo | ShadowJK, so the N950's lock screen will work differently? |
| 13:48.14 | javispedro | MohammadAG: re _MEEGOTOUCH_VISIBLE_IN_SWITCHER. It's the opposite thing actually. |
| 13:48.27 | javispedro | MohammadAG: it it set by swipeswitcher when application is currently visible on switcher |
| 13:48.54 | ShadowJK | Venemo, i guess that depends on whether they gave it a custom lock screen or used the same as N9? It's not like they wouldn't be allowed to cripple batterylife of a non-consumer device ;p |
| 13:48.56 | MohammadAG | javispedro, what happens if you set it manually? |
| 13:49.18 | javispedro | you confuse MTF =) |
| 13:49.39 | RST38h | Both N9 and N950 will use identical UI |
| 13:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: depending on how good their abstraction and their platform adaption is, they might redirect the onscreen indications to the notifier LED, N950 seems to have same like N900 |
| 13:49.44 | RST38h | This is what Nokians said |
| 13:49.46 | javispedro | moo RST38h |
| 13:49.53 | Venemo | mhm |
| 13:50.01 | MohammadAG | so it flips the M 180 degrees and spells WTF, nice |
| 13:50.19 | RST38h | And if someone points me to an example of native OpenGLES1 initializationfor Android, I would be grateful |
| 13:50.22 | Venemo | so the N950's standby time will be crippled by the always on display? |
| 13:50.33 | MohammadAG | just kill the display :p |
| 13:50.35 | ShadowJK | Venemo, to 12 hours or so, I'd imagine |
| 13:50.36 | javispedro | MohammadAG: MTF uses that Atom to see "MOnDisplayChangeEvent"s |
| 13:50.41 | Venemo | hehh |
| 13:50.46 | javispedro | s/see/send/ |
| 13:50.47 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: doesn't mean the framework itsaelf must be platform agnostic, it might adapt |
| 13:50.58 | RST38h | Venemo: N950 has got a lock button, hasn't it? |
| 13:51.06 | mva | crap! |
| 13:51.10 | mva | :T |
| 13:51.16 | Venemo | RST38h, I dunno, I don't have one yet |
| 13:51.17 | MohammadAG | the lock button sends you to the screensaver |
| 13:51.28 | MohammadAG | at least on the N8 |
| 13:51.34 | RST38h | Maybe it is going to be in the settings, like in Symbian? |
| 13:51.37 | MohammadAG | and N86 |
| 13:51.40 | RST38h | "Use standbyscreen - Yes/No" |
| 13:51.42 | mva | f**ken garage >_< |
| 13:51.47 | MohammadAG | just blank the screen with sysfs :P |
| 13:53.03 | mva | i've just create project for zsh (to maintain it's builds for maemo) with SVN except of git. Due to registration script reset it on SVN on any error or warning >_<' |
| 13:53.04 | Venemo | so... bottomline, this is something we will have to hack around when we get our N950s |
| 13:53.11 | mva | crap! crap! crap! |
| 13:53.25 | hiemanshu | Venemo: if we get out N950s :/ |
| 13:53.30 | hiemanshu | s/out/our |
| 13:53.37 | Venemo | heh |
| 13:53.52 | ShadowJK | can't you obnoxiously lucky people to get N950 go make your own club and room somewhere |
| 13:54.03 | alterego | pfft |
| 13:54.07 | javispedro | pfft. |
| 13:54.09 | ShadowJK | and stop taunting us normal people who can't get it even if we go set Nokia HQ on fire? |
| 13:54.12 | hiemanshu | ShadowJK: I applied for one, but I hope to get one, there is only hope :/ |
| 13:54.19 | alterego | The only reason I'd like an N950 is because it's collectable :P |
| 13:54.41 | ShadowJK | I'd want N950 because it looks like N900 upgrade |
| 13:54.44 | ShadowJK | and N9 is not |
| 13:55.07 | alterego | Oh, and to annoy ShadowJK by getting 2 of them |
| 13:55.09 | hiemanshu | I want an N950 because well its a limited edition device ;) |
| 13:55.30 | hiemanshu | alterego: if you do that, I will trace you down and kill you, take one and share the other one with ShadowJK :D |
| 13:55.47 | alterego | I really don't think that'll happen. |
| 13:55.50 | MohammadAG | I want an N950 cause I don't want the N9 to suck at launch |
| 13:55.53 | alterego | With 2 N950s I'd have super powers. |
| 13:55.54 | DocScrutinizer | tbh N950 would be interesting as an everyday device only if we could get N900 OS ported to it so we could install from extras-devel without any problems |
| 13:56.10 | ShadowJK | hiemanshu, actually I'd wanna get a team of angry geeks and go to Nokia's parking lot and remove the wheels from all their cars. See how they like their fucking sleek new cars. |
| 13:56.13 | ShadowJK | :P |
| 13:56.23 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 13:56.24 | hiemanshu | ShadowJK: count me in :D |
| 13:56.25 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, why would you want the N900's OS on it? |
| 13:56.30 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-110-30.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 13:56.35 | hiemanshu | ShadowJK: I'll get spray paints |
| 13:56.43 | RST38h | ShadowJK: You mean, you would like to further complicate the lives of already tormented Nokia employees? |
| 13:56.44 | DocScrutinizer | or if we got critical mass of N950 users, but that's obviously not going to hapen |
| 13:56.51 | mva | btw, anybody knows, if i need to create project on garage for autobuilding and publishing package in devel repo? :) |
| 13:56.56 | RST38h | ShadowJK: As if Elopocalypse weren't enough? |
| 13:57.10 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: Only the nicer cars. |
| 13:57.13 | MohammadAG | mva, no, just send to -devel directly |
| 13:57.16 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: Upper managment. |
| 13:57.41 | hiemanshu | and Elops cars |
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| 13:58.47 | merlin1991 | sure you want to remove only the tires from elops cars? |
| 13:59.04 | hiemanshu | nope |
| 13:59.08 | Venemo | why the tires? |
| 13:59.11 | hiemanshu | elops cars and upper management |
| 13:59.13 | Venemo | just remove the buttons from it |
| 13:59.18 | Venemo | and install windows on the car |
| 13:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: sure, See, this M6 chimera is an abomination for me. And I'd need all my apps around that I'm used to, not something from N9 repos that's poorly adapted to N950 per definitionem |
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| 13:59.32 | hiemanshu | Venemo: take a nail gun, and shoot the tires |
| 13:59.42 | hiemanshu | much easier to do |
| 14:00.04 | MohammadAG | Cars already have Windows |
| 14:00.15 | Venemo | xD |
| 14:00.15 | MohammadAG | OMG IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!1 |
| 14:00.30 | Cor-Ai | new elevators have windows.. |
| 14:00.47 | RST38h | The "conspiracy" clause seems to be coming up almost as often as the "hitler" clausenowadays |
| 14:01.06 | hiemanshu | RST38h: everything is a conspiracy |
| 14:01.20 | hiemanshu | the Rapture is a conspiracy |
| 14:01.32 | Termana | Pole's car |
| 14:01.36 | RST38h | The Rapture is idiocy. |
| 14:01.42 | RST38h | The rest is conspiracy. |
| 14:01.44 | *** join/#maemo tommis (~tommik@a91-153-171-147.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:01.49 | Termana | damn lag |
| 14:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | conspiracy isn't exactly the right word for sth SO obvious, no? |
| 14:02.10 | RST38h | Doc: It is easier to believe, especially for Americans, that the guy isn't simply stupid:) |
| 14:02.17 | RST38h | Or insane. |
| 14:02.24 | DocScrutinizer | or evil |
| 14:02.32 | DocScrutinizer | and not even hiding it |
| 14:02.32 | RST38h | "Evil" is subjective. |
| 14:02.33 | Termana | Has anyone actually got an offer for an N950 yet? (Quim said clear cases would start to receive them before the application deadline) |
| 14:03.13 | DocScrutinizer | the funny bit about conspiracies al the time is, if they were conspiracies then you'd not know about them |
| 14:03.15 | MohammadAG | no, there are no N950s, that's also a conspiracy |
| 14:03.28 | Termana | :p |
| 14:03.39 | Termana | passes around the tinfoil hats |
| 14:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | something done publicly hardly is a conspiracy |
| 14:03.42 | Termana | SHHHHH |
| 14:03.55 | Termana | The Gov'ment might be listenin in to yas |
| 14:04.15 | RST38h | Doc: Well, there are people who think that just by saying the right words at the right times they are fooling you |
| 14:04.27 | RST38h | Doc: US gov is full of them, as one example |
| 14:04.28 | Atarii | Hey all. Is it recommended to install the Community SSU ? |
| 14:04.49 | merlin1991 | Atarii: depends on how you want to use your device |
| 14:04.55 | merlin1991 | cssu is in "testing" state |
| 14:05.02 | Atarii | oh hey again merlin1991 thanks again for helping me last night :) |
| 14:05.11 | MohammadAG | javispedro, you sure the ARMEL UI is faster? |
| 14:05.41 | Atarii | merlin1991 it's to be used as a dev device (not main phone), so I guess I'll go for it |
| 14:05.46 | javispedro | MohammadAG: seemed like so, then again my hmarttan_x86 sbox is not accelereted |
| 14:07.02 | DocScrutinizer | Termana: if MohammadAG has no notice yet, then I'd say either there's no shipping yet, or their definition of "clear case" is weird |
| 14:07.18 | DocScrutinizer | and afaik he got no notice yet |
| 14:08.09 | javispedro | that we know of |
| 14:08.45 | javispedro | obviously, the mastermind behind the conspiracy is MohammadAG himself, who is keeping the single community N950 for himself. |
| 14:09.01 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 14:09.30 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I doubt I'm actually getting an N950, not sure why |
| 14:09.34 | DocScrutinizer | is repositioning a few satellites |
| 14:10.14 | MohammadAG | <javispedro> that we know of <-- I don't think anyone's signing an NDA for a loaned device :p |
| 14:10.20 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I'm sure you get one before I do, and I know damn sure why I won't get one |
| 14:10.23 | javispedro | MohammadAG: if you doubt it, then who the hell is going to get one |
| 14:10.27 | Venemo | if anyone, then MohammadAG should get an N950 |
| 14:11.01 | alterego | Time to start splitting up maemo5 specifics in columbus |
| 14:11.04 | MohammadAG | Let's review who should get an N950 :P |
| 14:11.15 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, he's the reason for hostmode on the N900 |
| 14:11.20 | jonwil | I certainly have no claim to one of the limited numbers of N950s |
| 14:11.29 | MohammadAG | javispedro, platform hacking at its best |
| 14:11.38 | MohammadAG | Venemo/alterego, they're the reason I know Qt |
| 14:11.54 | DocScrutinizer | well, the definition of useful contribution is not the common one, on meego loaner board |
| 14:11.57 | Venemo | we could use hostmode on the N950 as well I think |
| 14:12.03 | alterego | Unfortunately, I think my MeeGo efforts almost work as a disqualification from getting a MeeGo.com DDP |
| 14:12.07 | alterego | ironic really :) |
| 14:12.14 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: then I am pretty sure I am not getting one "/ |
| 14:12.21 | MohammadAG | alterego, how come? |
| 14:12.35 | MohammadAG | hiemanshu, what's your maemo.org profile? :P |
| 14:12.38 | alterego | They're looking for app devs to fill the stores. |
| 14:12.43 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: I have none :P |
| 14:13.20 | hiemanshu | well, I did write/test some stuff, but no profile |
| 14:13.23 | javispedro | alterego: then again I think quim is exactly the right person to understand that sending a few for random hacking is not bad |
| 14:14.08 | MohammadAG | alterego, you can do apps, awesome ones, you just chose not to for the time being :P |
| 14:14.17 | alterego | Yes well .. |
| 14:14.28 | alterego | I am starting to port Columbus to Harmattan now |
| 14:14.40 | alterego | So by the time I get an N950, my primary app will already be done I imagine :D |
| 14:15.09 | alterego | The scratchbox environment runs like crap on my machine though |
| 14:15.11 | alterego | Don't know why |
| 14:15.13 | hiemanshu | is working on getting quassel2go to run, and writing a new comic reader app |
| 14:15.15 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I have the hostmode gui bet tmo thread as my "project page" -quim wasn't impressed at all. Also it seemed to me he didn't even know what USB hostmode is and why it's a nice-to-have |
| 14:15.33 | alterego | I need to think of a new "flag ship" app for me to write for Harmattan/MeeGo |
| 14:15.42 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: why do you say he wasn't impressed? |
| 14:15.44 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, wasn't impressed at all... how do you know that? |
| 14:15.52 | alterego | Columbus was my Fremantly "flag ship" app, now I need something new for Harmattan |
| 14:16.22 | DocScrutinizer | that's what an old fart reads between the lines of a lengthy discussion |
| 14:16.42 | javispedro | bah, you need to talk in person someday |
| 14:17.12 | DocScrutinizer | note bene the old fart is me ;-P |
| 14:17.33 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, you are not old, neither are you a fart. |
| 14:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | I disagree |
| 14:17.54 | DocScrutinizer | farts |
| 14:18.01 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 14:20.33 | Venemo | :D |
| 14:21.40 | alterego | disagrees too |
| 14:21.46 | alterego | I'm an old fart as well |
| 14:22.05 | javispedro | though there are some comments by quim that scare |
| 14:22.16 | Venemo | javispedro, which comments are they? |
| 14:22.28 | javispedro | "The N950 is a very limited edition. At some point it is expected that N9 devices will be available, perhaps in bigger quantities and perhaps with more diverse criteria (I can't really promise anything). Maybe then there is a better chance for developers not aiming to work on apps for users." |
| 14:22.42 | Venemo | hmm |
| 14:22.43 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48AC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:22.44 | Venemo | weird |
| 14:23.02 | alterego | javispedro: my point exactly. |
| 14:23.14 | DocScrutinizer | that's too app centric |
| 14:23.22 | alterego | javispedro: now I _hope_ he/they plan on giving a very small amount of those N950 to CE developers |
| 14:23.26 | alterego | :/ |
| 14:23.39 | Venemo | and what about what alterego has told us? alterego, you said that quim said that the recipients of N950s can keep the N950, is that right? |
| 14:23.51 | javispedro | alterego: "Maybe the CE for the N950 is not so relevant,..." |
| 14:23.58 | javispedro | alterego: there's shit for you too! =) |
| 14:23.59 | RST38h | as long as you are doing something meaningfulwith it (C)Quim |
| 14:24.04 | DocScrutinizer | you want to give your OS and frameworks a good rattle to see how solid they are, before you care exclusively about apps apps apps apps |
| 14:24.19 | javispedro | either way, just read the thread: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597 |
| 14:24.24 | SpeedEvil | Especially before you lock in the API hard for release. |
| 14:24.46 | alterego | Venemo: I said that when the N9 is release there is an option to either trade the N950 for an N9 or keep the N950 |
| 14:24.49 | Venemo | javispedro, I have read the thread, yes. there is very little meaningful stuff there |
| 14:24.55 | Venemo | alterego, yeah |
| 14:25.09 | Venemo | alterego, so at the end, this won't be a loan after all, right? |
| 14:25.20 | alterego | No, |
| 14:25.40 | Venemo | so, it will be a loan, but we can choose to loan an N9 instead? |
| 14:25.59 | javispedro | Venemo: "In the meantime we will see what are the next steps based on demand, people intested in keeping the N950 vs jumping to the N9, etc." |
| 14:26.12 | alterego | Venemo: it's not strictly a loan, you're right |
| 14:26.17 | alterego | That "no" was a mistake :P |
| 14:26.26 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: N950 will be dead as stinking fish as soon as N9 rolls out |
| 14:27.44 | FIQ|n900 | uh, why does firefox' site shows "Get for Android", "Get Firefox Home for iPhone" but i can't find the fennec for maemo download link? |
| 14:28.00 | Venemo | all right, but what if at the en I actually want an N950 as my everyday device |
| 14:28.01 | alterego | I think what people have to remember about the N950 is, there will be _no_ support |
| 14:28.03 | DocScrutinizer | nobody will care about developing apps in a way so you could use "your" N950 |
| 14:28.16 | alterego | From the looks of it, they might not even keep the firmware in line with the N9 |
| 14:28.32 | DocScrutinizer | you bet they won't |
| 14:28.37 | Venemo | who cares? when MeeGo CE will become ready, I'll be happy to get rid of Harmattan |
| 14:28.44 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 14:28.44 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 14:28.44 | alterego | So the N950, as soon as the N9 comes out, will only be useful for MeeGo CE imo |
| 14:29.08 | MohammadAG | MGConfItem: Failed to activate configuration server: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct |
| 14:29.27 | MohammadAG | grr |
| 14:29.28 | DocScrutinizer | that first means CE gets support for all the closed bits, and there are plenty on low level, on N950 I bet |
| 14:29.49 | MohammadAG | I wish there was someone with an N950 here on IRC |
| 14:30.07 | Venemo | both N9 and N950 use almost the same chip as the N900, so there won't be much of a problem I imagine |
| 14:30.12 | Venemo | but, we shall wait and see |
| 14:30.29 | FIQ|n900 | there was one here recently |
| 14:30.33 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: already done |
| 14:30.35 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: believe me there WILL be lots of problems |
| 14:30.36 | SpeedEvil | Harmattan on n900 - for dev - would be awesome. |
| 14:30.47 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, agreed |
| 14:30.51 | alterego | (except fm tx/rx which is being worked on) |
| 14:30.52 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, for example? |
| 14:31.17 | alterego | SpeedEvil: it would be awesome, but I think if that was possible it would be available |
| 14:31.21 | DocScrutinizer | all the drivers for the closed bits won't get updates or bugfixes |
| 14:31.25 | alterego | For the same reason the N950 is around |
| 14:31.44 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: I don't think that is entirely true |
| 14:32.06 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: as long as we have any Nokia involvement in MeeGo CE, there will be people available to handle updates to the drivers. |
| 14:32.13 | Venemo | alterego, the reason why it isn't available on the N900, is ignorance. no techical reasons there methinks |
| 14:32.13 | javispedro | alterego: how are you working on it, do you have schematics? |
| 14:32.20 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 14:32.32 | javispedro | alterego: (re fmtx/rx) |
| 14:32.36 | alterego | Venemo: I think maybe the lack of memory might have something to do with it ;) |
| 14:32.59 | alterego | javispedro: it's being worked on inside Nokia, we need permission to make the drivers redistributable. |
| 14:33.03 | Venemo | alterego, well, Harmattan uses MTF, which on MeeGo CE can run on the N900's limited memory |
| 14:33.04 | DocScrutinizer | they don't even have time for stupid thing like fix a bug in a fremantle lib, for which community delivers the patch already |
| 14:33.17 | alterego | Venemo: don't confuse the N950 with MeeGo CE :P |
| 14:33.40 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: N900 is dead :P |
| 14:33.51 | DocScrutinizer | what makes you think that *magical* involvement into CE will change things for N950 |
| 14:33.56 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
| 14:33.57 | Venemo | alterego, MeeGo CE will run on the N900 and the N950 as well. and since MeeGo CE uses the same UX as Harmattan, conclusion is that Harmattan could run on the N900 as well |
| 14:34.06 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: because it has done for the N900 wrt MeeGo CE |
| 14:34.11 | javispedro | oh |
| 14:34.14 | alterego | Venemo: well, it doesn't. |
| 14:34.25 | Venemo | yes, but that's only for marketing reasons |
| 14:34.26 | javispedro | seems that the n950 application formatting bug it's fixed |
| 14:34.28 | alterego | Venemo: just it could be a very heavy MTF for all you know. |
| 14:34.35 | DocScrutinizer | we'll see |
| 14:34.51 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:35.03 | Venemo | yeah, we'll see soon enough |
| 14:35.23 | DocScrutinizer | I don't think trollop will tolerate his employees "wasting their time for updating a dead OS for a dead platform" |
| 14:35.25 | SpeedEvil | As long as all hte devs that get it aren't making angry birds clones. |
| 14:35.33 | MohammadAG | <alterego> DocScrutinizer: N900 is dead :P |
| 14:35.35 | SpeedEvil | (which is a valid task - but still) |
| 14:35.48 | MohammadAG | That's why MeeGo's using it as the devel device then? :P |
| 14:35.49 | alterego | MohammadAG: in the context of Nokia, |
| 14:35.54 | SpeedEvil | A valid and important task. |
| 14:36.00 | MohammadAG | the N900 is far from dead |
| 14:36.35 | *** join/#maemo dvarnes (~dvarnes@203-206-128-239.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:36.40 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: they've setup a permanent "meego hacker space" in a new factory in Tampere for Nokia people to work on what they want to work on when they have free time. |
| 14:36.48 | Venemo | with MeeGo, the N900 will have a long and happy life |
| 14:37.04 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: as long as there are people in Nokia still interested, we'll still get the drivers we require for MeeGo CE |
| 14:37.07 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: good news |
| 14:37.22 | DocScrutinizer | but you know about the lawyer issue |
| 14:37.29 | alterego | Sure |
| 14:37.33 | MohammadAG | alterego, in the context of Nokia the N900 was dead since PR1.3 |
| 14:37.49 | alterego | MohammadAG: sure, I never put a starting time for it ;) |
| 14:38.03 | alterego | I'm just saying the N900 outside of MeeGo CE is dead to Nokia |
| 14:38.11 | alterego | Not that the device is dead, I still love the N900 |
| 14:38.24 | alterego | And I hope I have at the very least another happy 2-3 years with the device. |
| 14:38.32 | alterego | Hacking it to do whatever I feel like getting it to do :) |
| 14:39.00 | alterego | Like, turning it into a wall mounted home automation controller. |
| 14:39.03 | FIQ|n900 | i usually change device every 1½ year but with no clear successor to N900 i'll stay a little bit longer hoping for a MeeGo device w/keyboard, wherever it comes from |
| 14:39.20 | Venemo | yeah |
| 14:39.27 | FIQ|n900 | hopes he doesn't have to wait too long |
| 14:39.34 | alterego | FIQ|n900: I change when a new device enthrawls me to get it :) |
| 14:39.42 | FIQ|n900 | yeah |
| 14:39.45 | alterego | I've had the N900 since Febuary last year. |
| 14:39.54 | FIQ|n900 | and that usually end up being every 1½ year :P |
| 14:39.55 | alterego | I'm getting an N8 next week to play with |
| 14:40.02 | alterego | In lieu of the N9 |
| 14:40.10 | alterego | Which I'll get when it's released, probably get two infact. |
| 14:40.15 | FIQ|n900 | same here, but wanted it since oct the year before that |
| 14:40.16 | SpeedEvil | ponders. |
| 14:40.23 | FIQ|n900 | sold out everywhere lol |
| 14:40.39 | Venemo | I hope there will be a proper MeeGo device from one vendor on another |
| 14:41.03 | Venemo | or* |
| 14:41.22 | FIQ|n900 | vendor doesn't count, as long as it is meego (or another nice linux distro for mobile phones popping up) and a hardware keyboard |
| 14:42.02 | Venemo | FIQ|n900 ++ |
| 14:42.21 | alterego | I'm not too fussed about a "MeeGo Device" from some vendor, what is more important to me is we get a device that is as open as what we've had with Nokias NIT line. |
| 14:42.25 | alterego | So flashable operating systems. |
| 14:42.28 | jonwil | yeah, give me a device with hardware keyboard, a full proper linux distro and a decent cellular chipset |
| 14:42.32 | alterego | The ability to run anything we want on them |
| 14:42.34 | SpeedEvil | alterego: Indeed |
| 14:42.40 | Venemo | alterego ++ |
| 14:42.42 | SpeedEvil | alterego: It could come with WP7 |
| 14:42.42 | FIQ|n900 | yeah, that's what i mean |
| 14:42.54 | MohammadAG | alterego, you won't like it :P |
| 14:42.55 | SpeedEvil | (though I don't think WP7 is slated for keyboards is it?) |
| 14:43.08 | alterego | If Vendor (X) comes along with a proper MeeGo device, but it's DRM locked down and no ability to install a vanilla MeeGo OS, I'm not buying :) |
| 14:43.10 | jonwil | There are already WP7 handsets with physical keyboards |
| 14:43.19 | Venemo | alterego ++ |
| 14:43.33 | javispedro | pfft. |
| 14:43.40 | alterego | Out of principle it's unlikely I'll buy a device with Windows Phone on it, even if it can be wiped off the device completely. |
| 14:43.49 | javispedro | when vendor X is the only one left doing meego handsets, you WILL buy it even if it is closed as an android device =) |
| 14:44.00 | SpeedEvil | alterego: Even if it's unlocked by policy? |
| 14:44.02 | alterego | (Which is unlikely) I imaigne the boot loader that Windows Phone uses is completely incompatible with what we've had. |
| 14:44.23 | alterego | SpeedEvil: N9 is likely the last phone I get from Nokia, next devices will be MeeGo or Android. |
| 14:44.30 | FIQ|n900 | i liked the N900 because it was like the first phone i've ever seen that DIDN'T lock things down |
| 14:44.36 | alterego | I see myself having to settle for a locked down device. |
| 14:44.38 | SpeedEvil | FIQ|n900: It's my second. |
| 14:44.50 | jonwil | If HTC wasnt so crappy with releasing the GPL bits of their code (kernel etc) and if they didnt lock their phones down, I would probably have bought a HTC Desire Z |
| 14:44.51 | FIQ|n900 | SpeedEvil, what was your first? |
| 14:44.52 | SpeedEvil | FIQ|n900: The first one kernel panicked on boot as there was no rootFS |
| 14:44.52 | Venemo | FIQ|n900 ++ |
| 14:44.57 | DocScrutinizer | FIQ|n900: you should've seen OM FR |
| 14:45.01 | SpeedEvil | That's how to distribute a phone to hackers! |
| 14:45.02 | Venemo | alterego, you and a locked device? |
| 14:45.06 | FIQ|n900 | openmoko? |
| 14:45.06 | Venemo | alterego, I doubt that |
| 14:45.07 | alterego | Actually, I'll rephrase, the N9 is likely the last device I _buy_ from Nokia. |
| 14:45.12 | DocScrutinizer | even OM 1973 |
| 14:45.42 | FIQ|n900 | SpeedEvil, nice :P |
| 14:46.13 | jonwil | I nearly bought a Nexus S |
| 14:46.19 | jonwil | but it has no hardware keyboard, so no dice |
| 14:46.30 | jonwil | At least Samsung seem to be the most open of the Android vendors |
| 14:46.35 | FIQ|n900 | are we sure that N9 even will be free from locked-down-policy-fail? |
| 14:46.47 | alterego | Android seems like a good way to go, if we can get a device that has its' drivers mostly open. |
| 14:47.03 | alterego | Installing MeeGo on most Android handsets seems quite plausible. |
| 14:47.12 | wmarone | alterego: most android devices have open drivers, minus graphics |
| 14:47.12 | SpeedEvil | On an unrelated matter. Does anyone know if there is a published API for the NFC?// |
| 14:47.12 | alterego | wmarone: indeed. |
| 14:47.15 | SpeedEvil | On the n9 |
| 14:47.19 | wmarone | they're just coding disasters hiding in a tarball |
| 14:47.27 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:47.40 | wmarone | is having his fill with the nook color |
| 14:47.40 | alterego | Okay, installed the latest Qt SDK |
| 14:47.50 | jonwil | The biggest problem with Android devices is all the closed-source userspace bits that are essential to the phone and unusable with anything other than Android |
| 14:47.52 | FIQ|n900 | i.e. will it come with root access directly (or as easily accessible as on maemo)? |
| 14:47.56 | alterego | It said, (1.8G) it's used 2.4 .. |
| 14:48.04 | *** join/#maemo Ionakka (~lechuck@a91-153-154-254.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:48.05 | jonwil | Such as say the telephony stack |
| 14:48.15 | jonwil | or the wifi userspace bits |
| 14:49.54 | jonwil | Even the "open" Nexus S has binary blob for the graphics, binary blob for WiFi, binary blob for GPS, binary blob for bluetooth, binary NFC blob and binary cell modem/cell stack blob |
| 14:49.54 | Venemo | worst case, I will get myself a MeeGo tablet and a dumbphone |
| 14:50.03 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: I've only seen nfc sharing plugin |
| 14:51.41 | javispedro | and I'm not even sure where... |
| 14:52.35 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: also: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/connectivity-api.html#nfc-classes which maybe works. |
| 14:52.50 | SpeedEvil | Binary blobs - if with adequate kernel insulation layers, and good APIs are barely tollerable |
| 14:52.56 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: Thanks |
| 14:53.33 | Venemo | what I don't understand is, why are closed drivers in the vendors' interest? |
| 14:53.47 | alterego | Price |
| 14:53.54 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (NFC) I found the chip, and press rant about it |
| 14:54.00 | DocScrutinizer | no datasheet though |
| 14:54.00 | alterego | And it's not the vendors that close them, it's the chipset manufactures |
| 14:54.30 | SpeedEvil | press link? |
| 14:54.39 | SpeedEvil | If you've got it handy |
| 14:54.48 | DocScrutinizer | look at your page |
| 14:55.03 | DocScrutinizer | N950 ;-P |
| 14:55.10 | SpeedEvil | Ah - OK. I am takng a break on it till money - I'll start figging throug stuff till then |
| 14:55.11 | DocScrutinizer | I messed sth up |
| 14:55.16 | SpeedEvil | monday |
| 14:55.22 | SpeedEvil | flogging |
| 14:55.35 | javispedro | haha |
| 14:55.46 | alterego | So there's no Harmattan device simulator? |
| 14:56.05 | Venemo | alterego, price? |
| 14:56.08 | javispedro | knows why on the n9 videos, when they "swipe" out the video, it is "wiped" instead of translated like any other app |
| 14:56.22 | SpeedEvil | Interesting questions are stuff like 'what does it do with a 'dead' n9 battery' |
| 14:56.31 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah (~Dibblah@cpc2-dund11-2-0-cust917.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 14:56.32 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 14:56.44 | DocScrutinizer | active/passive/dual-role |
| 14:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | OTA power |
| 14:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | or not |
| 14:56.59 | SpeedEvil | And can it be stopped doing that. |
| 14:57.06 | DocScrutinizer | YEAH indeed |
| 14:57.08 | Venemo | alterego, for one, why is it in Nokia's interest to close their drivers to that their devices can only be used with the operating systems of their choice. so why is this in their interest? |
| 14:57.15 | SpeedEvil | For example - if you usually have it configured as a doorkey - can you easily turn that off. |
| 14:57.15 | RST38h | Researchers over in the land of the robot-obsessed have found a new, non-invasive way to control your hand while your brain recoils in horror. |
| 14:57.19 | DocScrutinizer | well, some tin foil will do ;-P |
| 14:57.24 | alterego | Venemo: Nokia don't close the drivers, the drivers are closed |
| 14:57.44 | wmarone | Venemo: companies like Imagination close the drivres, and deliver pre-built ones to the vendor |
| 14:57.47 | alterego | Nokia buy the chips from a vendor that manufactures them, they say that these drivers have to stay closed. |
| 14:57.52 | DocScrutinizer | try NXP |
| 14:57.56 | Venemo | okay |
| 14:57.59 | alterego | wmarone: actually the do give the source |
| 14:58.04 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes they are helpful |
| 14:58.05 | alterego | Nokia have the source for the SGX drivers. |
| 14:58.07 | Venemo | so why is this in the chip vendors' interest? |
| 14:58.10 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:58.12 | wmarone | alterego: depends on the size of the company buying the chip |
| 14:58.26 | alterego | They're just not allowed to distribute the source, what we do have, is the ability to _redistribute_ freely the binary versions of the driver. |
| 14:58.27 | *** join/#maemo DrMongle (~mrdongle@p54B2B92E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:58.28 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: It's not particularly. |
| 14:58.36 | DrMongle | http://www.theonion.com/articles/military-releases-drones-suicide-note,19231/ army drone releases suicide note |
| 14:58.45 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, then why are they making it this way? |
| 14:58.49 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: It's simply that they have no incentive to make it open |
| 14:59.04 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: 99.9% of phone vendors don't give a shit. |
| 14:59.11 | jonwil | Given that PowerVR is the clear #1 buy a far margin in the mobile space, there is no incentive for imagination to give out code |
| 14:59.26 | alterego | wrt to SGX, that area of the market is so feirce with competition, maybe keeping the drivers closed is in their best interest. |
| 14:59.26 | DocScrutinizer | OTOH publishing datasheets summons the patent trolls and whatnot else |
| 15:00.00 | SpeedEvil | Also it may in princile give some control over the secondary market. |
| 15:00.03 | SpeedEvil | Principle. |
| 15:00.07 | Termana | alterego, pfft. That's nothing. Everyone has the SGX blob source code. Even I have it - here's a link to it: http://tinyurl.com/y8ufsnp |
| 15:00.12 | Venemo | I hope Intel's mobile chips will have their graphics chips too and they will have open drivers |
| 15:00.19 | DocScrutinizer | meh, as with schematics for hardware, you can RE the working principles for drivers |
| 15:00.34 | jonwil | Binary blobs are only adequate if they are compiled for the right runtime libraries (libc etc) and the right ABI/instruction set |
| 15:00.39 | javispedro | Venemo: Intel is doing SGX these days too |
| 15:00.40 | wmarone | Venemo: intel's mobile chip division has already opted for SGX |
| 15:00.49 | SpeedEvil | If you say that you only get a licence to the blob if you buy it through the official supplychain, then that is a big plus for chip vendors |
| 15:00.50 | javispedro | because for some reason their existing lowpower gfx chips are crap/underfunded |
| 15:00.57 | DocScrutinizer | large manufacturers have no problem to get 50 devices to kill them, also no problem to get 50 hackers to RE the drivers |
| 15:01.00 | SpeedEvil | As it eliminates the secondary market to companies in the west |
| 15:01.07 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Bullshit. |
| 15:01.09 | jonwil | And the binary blobs for the Nexus S are compiled for Android rather than Linus |
| 15:01.16 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Recruiting 50 hackers is trivial. |
| 15:01.33 | Termana | jonwil, he's wife compiles all over him everyday |
| 15:01.37 | Termana | his* |
| 15:01.41 | alterego | Termana: I know you well enough to know that you're probably trying to link jack me :P |
| 15:01.44 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Recruiting 50 hackers skilled in ARM reverse engineering, and who have a clue as to how hardware works is very not trivial. |
| 15:01.44 | jonwil | I mean Linux |
| 15:01.46 | jonwil | :) |
| 15:01.53 | Venemo | Termana, I did click on that link.... damn. |
| 15:01.58 | alterego | HAHAH! |
| 15:01.59 | Termana | hehe :p |
| 15:02.01 | alterego | I was right |
| 15:02.03 | alterego | :) |
| 15:02.13 | alterego | Poor Venemo has to learn the hard way :P |
| 15:02.13 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, we only have 2.3 ones here in this channel |
| 15:02.25 | SpeedEvil | 2.31 |
| 15:02.27 | javispedro | Venemo: it is a great song, I'm starting to like it for some reason. |
| 15:02.30 | SpeedEvil | I know 7 opcodes! |
| 15:02.57 | *** join/#maemo mujtaba (~mujtaba@79.127.24.79) |
| 15:03.05 | Termana | .31 of a hacker? Is that 1 whole person without a beard? |
| 15:03.08 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: I know better idea! |
| 15:03.09 | SpeedEvil | The corrolory to 'given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow' |
| 15:03.24 | RST38h | SpeedEvil:Let us employ 100 wizards with Merlin at the helm! |
| 15:03.27 | SpeedEvil | Is that the eyes have to understand the area they're looking at. |
| 15:03.34 | DocScrutinizer | the point with gfx drivers especially is they always cheat, and this isn't a fact you put on a press release |
| 15:03.36 | SpeedEvil | See the openssh screwups. |
| 15:04.04 | *** join/#maemo mujtaba (~mujtaba@unaffiliated/mujtaba) |
| 15:04.09 | jonwil | I would LOVE to see either Intel or AMD/ATI start making a PowerVR competitor |
| 15:04.16 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, cheat how? |
| 15:04.24 | Venemo | jonwil, me too |
| 15:04.31 | jonwil | AMD/ATI would be perfect |
| 15:04.31 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, in this instance the excuse "But everyone else does it, so it's totally cool man" would be absolutely fine |
| 15:04.36 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: in several ways |
| 15:04.40 | jonwil | Especially if it was as open as their desktop and laptop GPUs |
| 15:04.50 | javispedro | jonwil: both Intel and AMD _used_ to do PowerVR competitors |
| 15:05.05 | javispedro | jonwil: Intel = destroyed it and went PowerVR; AMD = Sold off the division |
| 15:05.28 | jonwil | I think PowerVR has too much market share for anyone to try and beat them |
| 15:05.46 | Venemo | javispedro, they're doing it still afaik. intel now engraves their GPUs onto the CPUs in the Core i3-5-7 afaik |
| 15:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: e.g they may deliver less fps than they say they do, less resolution, artifacts you won't see without knowing about them, etc pp |
| 15:06.05 | jonwil | Intel makes desktop GPUs |
| 15:06.09 | javispedro | Venemo: Intel is more interested in competing with desktop gpus than mobile |
| 15:06.20 | Termana | jonwil, not entirely true for mobile. Snapdragon chipsets don't use PowerVR, and they seem to be doing fine. |
| 15:06.30 | jonwil | About their only competitors are Qualcomm (who are even MORE proprietary than PowerVR) |
| 15:06.41 | jonwil | or NVIDIA with their Tegra line |
| 15:06.43 | jonwil | also closed |
| 15:06.50 | Venemo | javispedro, at their current "performance", intel is not competing with desktop GPUs |
| 15:06.54 | javispedro | Termana: jonwil: the other one is the ex-AMD mobile graphics division, now called the Adreno iirc |
| 15:07.04 | javispedro | Venemo: the fact that they suck at it is not relevant :D |
| 15:07.08 | wmarone | javispedro: which is owned by Qualcomm |
| 15:07.11 | Termana | javispedro, yeah, which Qualcomm owns |
| 15:07.15 | Termana | (snapdragon) |
| 15:07.16 | jonwil | Intel isn't trying to compete with the high-end GPU market |
| 15:07.32 | jonwil | they are trying to produce mainstream GPUs for desktops and laptops |
| 15:07.36 | Termana | I keep calling it snapdragon, but is that even what they call their newer chipsets? |
| 15:07.57 | jonwil | that can do video playback, Windows 7 Aero hardware accelleration, web browsing and stuff |
| 15:08.03 | wmarone | Termana: like the Exnyos? |
| 15:08.03 | Termana | SoCs rather |
| 15:08.14 | Venemo | jonwil, their "mainstream" GPUs can't run even the basic games |
| 15:08.25 | *** join/#maemo playya (~playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 15:08.35 | jonwil | They dont even try to make gaming GPUs |
| 15:08.37 | wmarone | wants samsung to expose the PCIe lanes in the SoC |
| 15:08.46 | javispedro | also, common knowledge says the Adrenos suck |
| 15:09.08 | Termana | Exynos is Samsung isn't it? |
| 15:09.15 | Termana | Uses Mali-400 |
| 15:09.23 | wmarone | Termana: yes |
| 15:09.55 | Venemo | jonwil, they should |
| 15:09.56 | wmarone | heh, I'm still waiting for raster's enlightenment based SLP distribution to see the light of day |
| 15:10.06 | MohammadAG | javispedro, can you start any Qt app in the ARMEL target? |
| 15:10.23 | Venemo | MohammadAG, the ARMEL target is usually only for compiling |
| 15:10.32 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I think yes. Either way I wouldn't care much about ARMEL.. |
| 15:11.08 | *** join/#maemo sp3001 (~chatzilla@cs78207043.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:11.08 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48AC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:11.11 | *** join/#maemo valdyn_ (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 15:11.22 | alterego | Did someone say yesterday that the qemu rootfs is downloaded with the harmattan scratchbox installer? |
| 15:11.27 | javispedro | which mobile gfx chip designer would you bet has more changes to open their drivers |
| 15:11.29 | javispedro | ? |
| 15:11.30 | MohammadAG | Venemo, the UI starts on ARMEL, unlike fremantle |
| 15:11.35 | alterego | Where's the rootfs image so I can boot it with qemu? |
| 15:11.39 | Venemo | MohammadAG, interesting |
| 15:11.59 | javispedro | Imgtec (PowerVR), ARM (Mali), nvidia (geforce sth), or Qualcomm (Adreno)? |
| 15:12.16 | javispedro | IMHO 1st ARM, 2nd is actually Imgtec. |
| 15:12.25 | MohammadAG | aloisiojr, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6-beta.php?f=arm-qemu-rm680_linux_i686.tar.gz ? |
| 15:12.29 | MohammadAG | err, alterego |
| 15:12.36 | jonwil | I do know imgtech made some handwaving a while back about opening up their drivers |
| 15:12.41 | MohammadAG | or http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6-beta.php?f=arm-qemu-rm680_linux_x86_64.tar.gz |
| 15:12.47 | jonwil | Although it may be that they were talking about the kernel bits |
| 15:12.51 | jonwil | and not the userspace bits |
| 15:12.57 | javispedro | I saw that |
| 15:13.03 | javispedro | back then kernel (n900) was already open |
| 15:13.11 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-40-159.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 15:13.20 | wmarone | jonwil: they've done that, qualcomm has as well |
| 15:13.22 | DrMongle | n900 was great |
| 15:13.24 | jonwil | Looking at the Nexus S binary blobs, it looks like we have a binary firmware for a Broadcomm bcm4329, a binary GPS daemon and shared library, PowerVR blobs, a NXP .so for the Nexus NFC plus firmware and 2 .so files for the cell modem |
| 15:13.34 | wmarone | qualcomm tried to push their kernel changes upstream, and got rejected hard :) |
| 15:13.38 | DrMongle | especially nokia spending a half million dollars to promote them to us |
| 15:13.38 | javispedro | btw |
| 15:13.46 | jonwil | I think the number of companies that still maintain binary kernel drivers is shrinking |
| 15:13.52 | javispedro | something interesting is that PowerVR is going to make a VAAPI compatible drop |
| 15:13.59 | ShadowJK | jonwil, yeah they just let them rot instead |
| 15:14.12 | DocScrutinizer | throws in a sidenote that even Openmoko, though *dedicated* to openness, never managed to disclose the GFX docs |
| 15:14.19 | jonwil | I mean the number of companies that push binary drivers instead of source |
| 15:14.25 | ShadowJK | I didn't think powervr does anything that'd be useful in a vaapi context... |
| 15:14.45 | jonwil | These days a lot of companies either open their source completly |
| 15:14.57 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, why? |
| 15:14.58 | jonwil | or move the secret bits into userspace daemons and shared libs |
| 15:15.04 | jonwil | and release kernel code |
| 15:15.24 | javispedro | ShadowJK: if they're releasing the blob it must mean so.... though I bet this is for atom chips. |
| 15:15.36 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: the options to oick nice manufacturers were limited, and the NDA was like signed with blood |
| 15:15.49 | DocScrutinizer | s/oick/pick/ |
| 15:16.04 | Venemo | but why was it? |
| 15:16.16 | DocScrutinizer | S-Media |
| 15:16.22 | DocScrutinizer | :shrug: |
| 15:16.23 | Dibblah | Hmm. That can't be right. |
| 15:16.30 | Dibblah | s/Dibblah/SomeoneElse/ |
| 15:16.35 | jonwil | The #1 problem with PowerVR in the ATOM chips is the complete lack of ANY usable linux drivers |
| 15:16.35 | Dibblah | Awww... |
| 15:16.54 | jonwil | Ask anyone trying to run linux on Polsburo hardware how hard it is to get graphics going |
| 15:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: then there were also some poor decisions inhouse about which way to go about GFX |
| 15:17.22 | Macer | they got graphics going? |
| 15:17.37 | jonwil | I think some people have said that the OpenMoko Freerunner would have been BETTER without a GPU at all |
| 15:17.41 | DocScrutinizer | as basically the S-Media glamo GFX was worse than the CPU direct FB ;-P |
| 15:17.49 | jonwil | yeah |
| 15:17.50 | Venemo | :D |
| 15:18.20 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:18.48 | DocScrutinizer | but it came with another interface which we needed to stick WLAN on |
| 15:19.06 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo) |
| 15:19.07 | ShadowJK | S3C6410 seems to have leaked datasheets all over, and seems to have pretty usable GFX on its own :) |
| 15:19.12 | jonwil | By far the 2 hardest parts to find for anyone doing a small-scale or "open" cell phone are the GPU and the cell modem |
| 15:19.16 | DocScrutinizer | and nobody did *ALL* the math before the damage was done |
| 15:19.49 | Termana | ShadowJK, no publicly released drivers AFAIK, and still has blobs |
| 15:19.56 | DocScrutinizer | S3C64xx is quite another class than S3C2442 ;-D |
| 15:20.08 | jonwil | Even the OLPC project is having trouble finding an ARM SoC for their next model that is anywhere near open enough |
| 15:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | still not as nice as OMAP in my book |
| 15:20.12 | ShadowJK | Termana, well, sure :P |
| 15:20.19 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 15:20.41 | jonwil | the ARM OLPC will probably have to have a dumb framebuffer out of the box with some binary blobs available from somewhere non OLPC |
| 15:21.01 | Venemo | jonwil, and OLPC agrees with that? hard to believe |
| 15:21.40 | DocScrutinizer | it's take it or leave it |
| 15:21.48 | jonwil | Fact is, there IS no such thing as an open GPU in the ARM space |
| 15:21.59 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:22.08 | jonwil | The only way you can get ANY graphics at all in an open way is with a dumb framebuffer |
| 15:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | that's what they told me |
| 15:22.24 | Venemo | what is a "dumb framebuffer" |
| 15:22.47 | jonwil | simple 2d output with no hardware acceleration |
| 15:23.00 | Venemo | heh |
| 15:23.04 | Termana | dumb was just being used as an adjective and not as apart of the noun |
| 15:23.06 | Venemo | in other words, software rendering? |
| 15:23.10 | jonwil | yes |
| 15:23.14 | Venemo | eh. |
| 15:23.38 | jonwil | Even the PS3 linux setup only gave you a simple framebuffer |
| 15:23.42 | javispedro | I still think ARM is the one that has most chances at the moment for opening the usermode parts (though for now they are not doing it) |
| 15:23.43 | jonwil | and no GPU acceleration |
| 15:23.57 | jonwil | I also think ARM is most likely |
| 15:24.19 | Venemo | so, if there is need for an open GPU for ARM, why is it that neither of the chip vendors make one? |
| 15:24.36 | ShadowJK | It's also that, even with documented hardware, there aren't that many people that can make an openGL driver out of it |
| 15:24.45 | wmarone | Venemo: none of them care |
| 15:25.04 | Macer | doesn't aerm just lic the dev of the soc? |
| 15:25.04 | Macer | meaning the companies tell arm what they need? |
| 15:25.08 | DocScrutinizer | they can sell their chips without open drives as well |
| 15:25.13 | Macer | aerm/arm |
| 15:25.15 | javispedro | ShadowJK: does not help that it is a patent minefield |
| 15:25.24 | jonwil | It may be that ARM dont want to open their blobs because they know that the moment they do, Imagination Tech, NVIDIA and others will order their patent lawyers to pour over every single line of code looking for even the tiniest thing they can use to sue |
| 15:25.45 | Venemo | maybe |
| 15:25.52 | jonwil | As for the comment about drivers being hard to write, go ask anyone working on the open ATI drivers how hard it is |
| 15:25.57 | Macer | i mean i only ask because if the "open community" is so hell bent on an open soc... buy one from arm :) |
| 15:25.59 | jonwil | And they have full vendor support and documentation |
| 15:26.08 | DocScrutinizer | ARM is open, GFX is not ARM |
| 15:26.24 | DocScrutinizer | a SoC has more than an ARM core |
| 15:26.28 | Macer | then buy the lic from a gfx company |
| 15:26.33 | Macer | to open it |
| 15:26.40 | Macer | or have them dev one that is open |
| 15:26.44 | Macer | money talks |
| 15:26.52 | Termana | spits his non-existent coffee at Macer |
| 15:26.57 | jonwil | the "open community" is not big enough for any vendor (ARM, ImgTech or otherwise) to care |
| 15:27.14 | Macer | sure it is |
| 15:27.33 | Macer | money talks... pay the right amount and tell them what you need and they will do it |
| 15:27.40 | jonwil | yeah money talks |
| 15:27.50 | Termana | money talks. Sure, do you have a couple of millions dollars to start with? |
| 15:27.54 | DrMongle | but opening your source can also generate money |
| 15:28.02 | Termana | And they will want you to cover future revenue |
| 15:28.09 | Termana | and that fact your opening up all their IP |
| 15:28.09 | Macer | Termana: no.. but how long would donations take for that? |
| 15:28.16 | Macer | probably not too long |
| 15:28.29 | ShadowJK | how long does it take to collect half a billion.. |
| 15:28.30 | Venemo | Macer, in that case, why hasn't it happened yet? |
| 15:28.36 | Macer | Termana: not really.. not if it is from the ground up open |
| 15:28.38 | MohammadAG | divan, thanks for The echo nest, it looks awesome |
| 15:28.39 | Termana | puh-lease |
| 15:28.42 | Macer | Venemo: nobody tried? |
| 15:28.46 | Macer | :) |
| 15:28.51 | Termana | Macer, go forth and multiply my friend |
| 15:28.55 | Macer | or thinks it can be done |
| 15:29.01 | Macer | or even asked? |
| 15:29.10 | Macer | :) assumptions |
| 15:29.13 | Termana | If you can do it, I will buy you a Lamborghini. |
| 15:29.18 | Macer | LOL!! |
| 15:29.29 | javispedro | a OpenSource Lamborghini! |
| 15:29.43 | Macer | running maemo on its car computer! |
| 15:30.06 | DrMongle | a n900 is kind of like a sports car |
| 15:30.16 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 15:30.19 | DrMongle | that can transform |
| 15:30.20 | Termana | javispedro, yeah well, I was kind of thinking... replica :p But I can arrange Maemo on it! :p |
| 15:30.21 | divan | MohammadAG, yep, I'm a excited about it as well. Will release app soon, |
| 15:30.27 | ShadowJK | Actually there's an opengraphics project, they've been working on building an open graphics core. |
| 15:30.31 | *** part/#maemo DrMongle (~mrdongle@p54B2B92E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:30.32 | Termana | DrMongle, more than meets the eye? |
| 15:30.41 | Venemo | Termana, Macer: maybe you're better off with MeeGo IVI than Maemo on that |
| 15:30.47 | Macer | Termana: or ask the gfx owner of the n900 how much for the lic |
| 15:30.48 | ruskie | ShadowJK, don't forget openhardware and opencores ;) |
| 15:30.57 | Macer | their biggest fear of course being the chinese |
| 15:31.02 | ShadowJK | They have a board with a few FPGA.. costs about 1500 with developer discount ;) |
| 15:31.04 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: LOL that silicon dump? |
| 15:31.12 | Macer | and their knockoff replication capability |
| 15:31.15 | Macer | :) |
| 15:31.26 | MohammadAG | divan, any git repo? |
| 15:31.28 | Macer | china ruined true open devices |
| 15:31.35 | Venemo | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Graphics_Project |
| 15:31.37 | Macer | russia too but not as bad |
| 15:31.37 | divan | MohammadAG, not yet. |
| 15:31.38 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48AC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:31.40 | Termana | Macer, don't mess with me, did you see what I did to DrMongle up there? I merely spoke to him and that forced him to leave. |
| 15:31.46 | Venemo | Macer, "china ruined true open devices" -> why? |
| 15:31.50 | SpeedEvil | Macer: You need to not only buy the rights to an opensource GFX driver - it has to be a compelling driver that's actually worth vendors using |
| 15:32.06 | wmarone | Venemo: "omg they'll copy our stuff!" |
| 15:32.13 | Macer | SpeedEvil: fair enough |
| 15:32.25 | SpeedEvil | Macer: Where vendors = the several people actually interested in putting that in silicon |
| 15:32.44 | *** join/#maemo klasu__ (~klasu@a88-113-98-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:32.50 | Venemo | wmarone, they are copying anyway |
| 15:33.12 | divan | MohammadAG, only a couple of screenshots :)) http://imgur.com/a/11sKd |
| 15:33.18 | wmarone | Venemo: they may be, but that's no solace to the companies in question |
| 15:33.21 | Macer | :) |
| 15:33.32 | SpeedEvil | Macer: and the cost/benefit has to be in that devices favour - if the non-open source is a fraction of a square milimeter smaller, or lower power, or ... it will get picked unless the benefits of that are outweighed by the lack of required licencing. |
| 15:33.36 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, you can get Nokla N950 already, from China X-P |
| 15:33.48 | ruskie | hehe |
| 15:34.00 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, really? Url? :) |
| 15:34.02 | Termana | divan, nice |
| 15:34.08 | ruskie | running what? WM6.5? |
| 15:34.08 | DocScrutinizer | sorry |
| 15:34.33 | MohammadAG | divan, got a screenshot showing how the parsed data shows? :P |
| 15:34.42 | DocScrutinizer | the_awsome_max.zn dunno, google for Nokia N950 |
| 15:34.56 | DocScrutinizer | 95$ |
| 15:35.00 | javispedro | omh |
| 15:35.01 | javispedro | 1.2 Ghz |
| 15:35.14 | DocScrutinizer | dual sim |
| 15:35.55 | ruskie | they should just start rolling their own phones instead of calling them knockoffs |
| 15:36.05 | javispedro | http://la3218.en.hisupplier.com/product-733698-Nokia-N950-1-2GHz-32GB-12MP-MeeGo-1-2-smartphone-USD-338.html |
| 15:36.07 | divan | MohammadAG, :) At the moment it's just QLabel saying "Artist - Song name" )) Will add nice UI as soon as finish everything else. |
| 15:36.10 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:36.10 | DocScrutinizer | they got exactly one chipset and refrence design, and they throw it into whatever case and branding they see fit |
| 15:36.12 | javispedro | watch that one |
| 15:36.56 | *** join/#maemo mr_jrt (~j@jamie-thompson.co.uk) |
| 15:37.34 | hiemanshu | it even has a 12MP cam, I am getting one now! |
| 15:37.53 | *** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod) |
| 15:38.09 | MohammadAG | meh, I have an MP3 player with a 25MP cam from China |
| 15:38.38 | Termana | At least the website has great recommendations! |
| 15:38.45 | Termana | Related Products: Hamburger Phone |
| 15:38.53 | javispedro | MohammadAG: can you eat it at least? |
| 15:39.33 | hiemanshu | *burp* best $700 ever spent |
| 15:39.58 | Venemo | [17:36] <DocScrutinizer> they got exactly one chipset and refrence design, and they throw it into whatever case and branding they see fit -> ??? |
| 15:39.58 | MohammadAG | javispedro, course you can |
| 15:40.08 | jonwil | I wish the western world had the guts to stand up to China for all the human rights violations and crap that goes on. Unfortunatly, there are 3 problems with that:First is that the western world has borrowed so much money (and continues to borrow so much money) from China that they cant afford to go after them |
| 15:40.40 | jonwil | after all, you dont declare war on the country providing you with the money you need to pay the very soldiers who are fighting for you. |
| 15:40.50 | alterego | Neat, my two core libraries for Columbus compile under Harmattan with no special additions :) |
| 15:41.18 | kerio | jonwil: also guantanamo |
| 15:41.47 | alterego | Next is to separate the maemo5 specific UX code from the generic columbus code, then create a new plugin thingy. |
| 15:42.07 | jonwil | Second is that so much stuff is made in china (because no matter how much countries like Mexico, Brazil, India, Vietnam etc try, they cant beat the chinese on manufacturing and labor costs) that the west cant afford to say no to China. |
| 15:42.51 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: indeed |
| 15:43.11 | jonwil | I guarantee you that if the US government EVER tried to do something about china (war, sanctions, whatever else) they would have the president of Wal-Mart on their ass as fast as his corporate jet could get him to DC |
| 15:43.20 | ShadowJK | actually some companies are already moving out of china to cheaper parts :P |
| 15:43.31 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:43.41 | MohammadAG | X86 target |
| 15:43.46 | ShadowJK | jonwil, well also China is the biggest creditor :P |
| 15:43.57 | jonwil | I already mentioned that :) |
| 15:43.59 | ruskie | he already said that |
| 15:44.00 | javispedro | MohammadAG: unset |
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| 15:44.40 | jonwil | with regards to manufacturing, what I want to know is why more US companies and retailers dont try to subsidise factories in Mexico and central america. |
| 15:44.52 | MohammadAG | javispedro, /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set |
| 15:45.00 | javispedro | MohammadAG: doing what? |
| 15:45.07 | MohammadAG | meego-arm appname |
| 15:45.12 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: What's in it for them? |
| 15:45.22 | javispedro | MohammadAG: meego-arm??? |
| 15:45.34 | MohammadAG | meego-run, sorry, sleep deprivation |
| 15:45.42 | javispedro | MohammadAG: you are trying to run an armel binary for somer ason |
| 15:45.47 | javispedro | MohammadAG: run file on "appname" |
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| 15:46.15 | jonwil | The advantage of manufacturing in central america is that that they dont need to follow the strict chinese rules (that e.g. require partnership with chinese companies) |
| 15:46.39 | MohammadAG | oh |
| 15:46.47 | jonwil | So they wouldnt be giving all their valuable IP to to these chinese companies (many of whom are owned by or in bed with the chinese government) |
| 15:47.02 | jonwil | Also the transport costs from Mexico are lower than those from China |
| 15:47.04 | otwieracz | jrayhawk: ping |
| 15:47.07 | jonwil | which would be an advantage' |
| 15:47.35 | jonwil | Plus, by making stuff in that part of the world, you could give those people jobs and make it far less likely that they will try to get jobs in the USA |
| 15:47.40 | jonwil | which may not matter to US companies |
| 15:47.52 | jonwil | but it would be something the US government would care about |
| 15:48.22 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: But absent governmental incentives - why would they? |
| 15:48.45 | SpeedEvil | This is a major problem with free trade - you can't control what your companies do other than with the most blunt instruments |
| 15:48.59 | jonwil | As mentioned, avoiding the need to give their IP to the chinese is one big reason for companies to investigate other countries |
| 15:49.41 | jonwil | Think about all those factories in china that make Nike shoes by day and at night make fake |
| 15:49.44 | SpeedEvil | One concern I've heard is many south american workers are very much less productive. |
| 15:49.44 | jonwil | fake Nike shoos |
| 15:49.48 | jonwil | shoes |
| 15:50.04 | jonwil | using the same tooling and plant but cheaper materials |
| 15:50.05 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if that's true. |
| 15:50.06 | ruskie | hmm all the nike shoes I've had so far always had a Made in Vietnam |
| 15:50.11 | jonwil | maybe |
| 15:50.20 | jonwil | if its not Nike, its others |
| 15:50.24 | jonwil | golf clubs |
| 15:50.27 | jonwil | handbags |
| 15:50.39 | jonwil | wallets |
| 15:50.57 | jonwil | There is an awful lot of bootleg crap made in china |
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| 15:51.34 | hiemanshu | well almost everything is made in china these days |
| 15:51.55 | ruskie | well most electronics atleast |
| 15:52.48 | javispedro | even babies are made in china these days |
| 15:52.53 | jonwil | About the only thing that doesnt have a Made In China label on it these days are cars |
| 15:53.15 | jonwil | And even then, there are at least 3 chinese car companies trying to sell cars in Australia |
| 15:53.39 | DocScrutinizer | ghost shifts are a know problem |
| 15:54.43 | jonwil | I am surprised we havent seen ghost shifts happening for electronics |
| 15:55.26 | jonwil | I guess the issue there is that no-one makes a el-cheapo repalcement for a TI OMAP |
| 15:55.44 | jonwil | whereas el-cheapo replacements for whatever they make handbags or golf-clubs out of are easy to find |
| 15:56.02 | wmarone | I imagine those are easier to make |
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| 15:57.24 | jonwil | I posted my latest CBSMS stuff to the mailing list btw |
| 15:58.40 | ShadowJK | Actually there have been ghost shift microsdhc :P |
| 15:58.50 | jonwil | yeah but those are simple to make |
| 15:58.55 | ShadowJK | kingston sold them as their own :> |
| 15:59.06 | jonwil | plus there are plenty of cheap flash chips out there you can use |
| 15:59.10 | jonwil | they are crap and unreliable |
| 15:59.11 | jonwil | but cheap |
| 16:00.03 | ShadowJK | Funny thing about the transport costs though, I like buying stuff online from china, because shipping isn't a rip-off :P |
| 16:00.10 | jonwil | Its when you start talking things like CPUs, GPUs, audio chips and fancy stuff that it gets hard |
| 16:01.18 | ShadowJK | longsoon is a bit underpowered and powerhungry still :/ |
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| 16:02.34 | jonwil | wonders if using bits of libbmeipc-dev from Harmattan SDK for Fremantle work is going to get me in trouble... |
| 16:03.13 | javispedro | nope |
| 16:03.18 | javispedro | is it nonfree? |
| 16:03.44 | javispedro | jonwil: if it is nonfree, the eula is here: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6-beta.php in case you want to read it. |
| 16:03.53 | javispedro | ;P |
| 16:04.17 | javispedro | "The Licensee shall be entitled to exploit the license granted to it by |
| 16:04.17 | javispedro | Nokia under and in accordance with this Agreement solely for the purpose of |
| 16:04.17 | javispedro | porting and developing software for the MAEMO-Platform" |
| 16:04.21 | javispedro | note: not meego =) |
| 16:04.29 | ShadowJK | does M6 have upower? |
| 16:06.03 | jonwil | The good news is that most of what I need is in http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-device-adaptation/n900_libbme/blobs/2e163b3d02e0b6a48830f0bfb047d00ccd965373/include/bmemsg.h |
| 16:06.24 | jonwil | which is GPL per http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-device-adaptation/n900_libbme/blobs/2e163b3d02e0b6a48830f0bfb047d00ccd965373/COPYING |
| 16:06.37 | jonwil | well LGPL |
| 16:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: LOL |
| 16:08.09 | javispedro | I ponder if I should file a bug about being legally forbidden from doing any Meego work using this Meego Harmattan Platform SDK |
| 16:09.23 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: now THAT are those over critical lawyers @ Nokia, who are so ompossible to pass by even with silly things like saying "charge this battery to max X.y Volt, and don't heat to more than, and here's what the saftety switch does..." |
| 16:10.47 | GAN900 | doesn't know how people use On Live. |
| 16:10.47 | javispedro | lawyers and volts in the same sentence? and you're not talking about giving lawyers some electrical shock? does not compute! |
| 16:12.05 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I think we already figured all this, I even have the meego bme stuff open in my browser right now. I didn't suggest to replace hald-addon-bme without pondering if and how it can be done |
| 16:12.21 | jonwil | Anyhow, with that LGPL stuff linked to and a couple of #defines pulled from somewhere, it should be possible to completly clone all of hald-addon-bme except all the syslog stuff |
| 16:12.31 | jonwil | yeah I know, I intend to clone hald-addon-bme |
| 16:13.19 | DocScrutinizer | clone it so that it uses sysfs or direct access to chips, alternatively. Rather than bme IPC |
| 16:13.22 | jonwil | then others can hack on my clone and make it e.g. talk to backends other than Nokia BME |
| 16:13.59 | DocScrutinizer | honestly the bme IPC is most foggy part of it |
| 16:14.11 | ShadowJK | wonders if the battery icon in MeeGo CE talks to bme or talks to sysfs |
| 16:14.12 | DocScrutinizer | the rest is straight forward |
| 16:14.46 | jonwil | I already figured out 90% of the bmeipc bits |
| 16:14.49 | DocScrutinizer | I have NO idea |
| 16:15.01 | jonwil | so its not like finishing the job and writing the clone is going to be hard |
| 16:15.19 | ruskie | so anyone used the meego community edition on the n900 yet? |
| 16:15.24 | DocScrutinizer | as there's no proper papers describing such "global" macroscopic things |
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| 16:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: if you're talking about CE then that's CE bme |
| 16:16.42 | DocScrutinizer | I think it differs quite a bit |
| 16:17.48 | jonwil | no, actually, the bits of the interface that matter seem to match between the libbmeipc I have from nokia-binaries and the git links I posted |
| 16:18.00 | jonwil | I mean hald-addon-bme from nokia-binaries |
| 16:18.05 | jonwil | not libbmeipc |
| 16:18.19 | jonwil | This is from maeno fremantle SDK nokia-binaries btw |
| 16:18.50 | jonwil | so yes I can come up with a proper clone for Fremantle and its BME that uses the info from various versions of the MeeGo n900_libbme tree |
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| 16:23.36 | ShadowJK | ruskie, spent midsummer holidays experimenting with it |
| 16:23.45 | jonwil | Will be GPL-ing my hald-addon-bme clone so the license of the n900_libbme bits (all of the code in that repo that I can see is LGPL) is not a problem :) |
| 16:23.57 | jonwil | I will also be GPL-ing any and all of the Cell Broadcast SMS bits |
| 16:24.06 | jonwil | including the GUI bit |
| 16:24.31 | ruskie | ShadowJK, the latest build? 2011-06-23? |
| 16:24.40 | jonwil | Have to GPL that stuff anyway, ofono is GPL and I am/will be using bits of ofono code |
| 16:24.42 | jonwil | :) |
| 16:24.49 | ShadowJK | 06-23.1 |
| 16:25.15 | ruskie | sounds right |
| 16:25.26 | ruskie | usable? used the sd card right? |
| 16:25.45 | ShadowJK | heh |
| 16:25.57 | ShadowJK | not really |
| 16:26.24 | ShadowJK | Yeah sd card |
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| 16:29.47 | MohammadAG | well, that's one app done, till they get window stacking done http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1039461&postcount=609 |
| 16:31.07 | javispedro | I do not think stacking in the hildon sense will ever work |
| 16:31.20 | MohammadAG | andre__, is bugs.maemo.org the right place to report Harmattan SDK bugs? |
| 16:31.42 | ShadowJK | devel.nokia or something |
| 16:34.54 | MohammadAG | javispedro, stacking worked fine in MTF afaik |
| 16:35.03 | javispedro | exactly. |
| 16:35.10 | javispedro | it is implemented _inside_ mtf. |
| 16:36.16 | RST38h | Meanwhile:http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.7-rc1.php |
| 16:38.40 | javispedro | I find it funny that the Nokia WP7 developer site has like 100 posts. Max. And videos of HTC devices. |
| 16:40.58 | javispedro | and 3 wiki pages, and all of them have been written by a QML fan whose goal clearly was ridiculize WP7's XAML. |
| 16:41.06 | MohammadAG | javispedro, and MTF is a big Qt subclass |
| 16:41.25 | RST38h | Moreover, I am sure Nokia's WP7 device will in fact be a relabelled HTC! |
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| 16:41.47 | RST38h | cackles sardonically |
| 16:41.58 | javispedro | well, I _hope_ the guy's goal was to ridiculize XAML. Otherwise, this is going to be fun. |
| 16:42.00 | andre__ | MohammadAG, no |
| 16:42.13 | andre__ | Harmattan has nothing to do with bugs.maemo.org |
| 16:42.55 | andre__ | developer.nokia.com or so |
| 16:43.02 | RST38h | andre: But shouldn't it? |
| 16:43.08 | andre__ | RST38h, why? |
| 16:43.16 | RST38h | andre: Well, it is still a Maemo! |
| 16:43.22 | andre__ | not really |
| 16:43.28 | RST38h | ah come on |
| 16:43.32 | andre__ | it's called "Maemo 1.2 Harmattan" |
| 16:43.41 | RST38h | Ok, so it is a Maemo! |
| 16:43.43 | javispedro | andre__: hah, subconscious! |
| 16:43.46 | RST38h | Hehehe |
| 16:43.48 | andre__ | :-D |
| 16:44.00 | andre__ | Discussing it is just useless |
| 16:44.04 | andre__ | leads to nothing and changes nothing |
| 16:44.16 | RST38h | andre: No, really, marketing department's illusions aside,it is a freaking maemo |
| 16:44.23 | andre__ | RST38h, shrug |
| 16:44.40 | andre__ | infrastructure is not there in bugs.maemo.org and there are no plans to |
| 16:45.15 | andre__ | plus no Nokian will care anyway about Harmattan SDK bug reports in bugs.maemo.org |
| 16:45.16 | javispedro | MohammadAG: do you have the code for that "stacking Qt windows" around? |
| 16:45.34 | MohammadAG | javispedro, MTF? nope |
| 16:45.50 | MohammadAG | but if I had a window with stacking support, I can get the atom |
| 16:46.17 | javispedro | MohammadAG: but what is your app doing at the moment? |
| 16:46.22 | javispedro | opening a new raw QWindow? |
| 16:46.28 | javispedro | or QWidget |
| 16:46.32 | MohammadAG | QMainWnidow, yes |
| 16:47.12 | javispedro | so you eventually end up with two main level windows |
| 16:49.38 | MohammadAG | javispedro, main level? no, one's a child window |
| 16:49.47 | MohammadAG | QMainWindow = GtkWindow equiv |
| 16:50.54 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: crumble in fear!! http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide/Aegis_manifest_file_generation_tool |
| 16:52.15 | javispedro | ok, that is scaring. |
| 16:52.16 | javispedro | very scary. |
| 16:52.24 | javispedro | static analysis of binaries |
| 16:52.25 | DocScrutinizer | I've seen quite a few of those pages, that's where my concerns got stirred up |
| 16:53.58 | DocScrutinizer | I'll be a pleasure to me to build a backdoor into each and every binary I produce, in a way no static analysis and no human experts review will find it |
| 16:55.37 | DocScrutinizer | finally all the oops_off-by-one double-tricky cases of the past come to a new good purpose finally |
| 16:56.56 | javispedro | WTF. |
| 16:56.58 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 16:57.09 | MohammadAG | wtf is wrong with this guy http://talk.maemo.org/search.php?searchid=10574102 |
| 16:57.15 | SpeedEvil | If the security framework is used well - it's a plus. |
| 16:57.16 | javispedro | locked mode = no sftp |
| 16:57.22 | javispedro | no ssh at all |
| 16:57.34 | javispedro | if you manage to sneak a binary at all, kernel will refuse to run it |
| 16:57.51 | SpeedEvil | For example - if all apps are required to say why they use each device on the app page. |
| 16:58.11 | SpeedEvil | So you can't have an app hitting the net if it hasn't said it will. |
| 16:58.34 | kerio | SpeedEvil: we could have the same level of trustworthiness with code review of opensource programs |
| 16:58.35 | SpeedEvil | And if the approval process is done right |
| 16:58.43 | kerio | it works for linux distros |
| 16:58.44 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:58.49 | SpeedEvil | kerio: Or does it. |
| 16:58.52 | SpeedEvil | See openssh |
| 16:59.20 | kerio | yeah but that wasn't malicious intent |
| 16:59.33 | SpeedEvil | Wasn't it? |
| 16:59.34 | ruskie | I really don't get the point of aegis on what for all intents and purposes seems to be DoA OS/Device |
| 17:00.02 | kerio | SpeedEvil: are you saying that openssh devs knowingly put security vulnerabilities in openssh? |
| 17:00.59 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: didn't you say you want to wait and see what it's like when it gets used, OWTTE? |
| 17:01.03 | kerio | anything "trusted computing" platforms do can be done by the user |
| 17:01.57 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you are completely right in that aegis seems to be fully armed and operational |
| 17:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | toldya |
| 17:02.21 | DocScrutinizer | and it's right from 7th hell |
| 17:02.24 | javispedro | puts the webos jails to shame |
| 17:03.58 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: except deprive user from ruling his own device, that's a unique feature of security framework |
| 17:04.32 | SpeedEvil | Depending on what controls the user has over it. |
| 17:05.01 | SpeedEvil | My thinkpad has a similar device, and kernel features. |
| 17:05.01 | DocScrutinizer | user has NO control |
| 17:05.08 | kerio | i thought that was the point |
| 17:06.13 | DocScrutinizer | all control you grant to user, you as well grant to 'malware' in the sense of those who want their content or IP protected |
| 17:06.13 | SpeedEvil | It deends on the policies - which I don't think have been revealed yet. |
| 17:06.18 | SpeedEvil | I agree it could be very bad. |
| 17:06.31 | DocScrutinizer | and it can change any day |
| 17:06.58 | DocScrutinizer | and there's just so much you can do about it |
| 17:07.11 | DocScrutinizer | take it or leave it |
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| 17:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | buy sth else |
| 17:07.50 | SpeedEvil | Biggie I guess is can you replace the kernel. |
| 17:08.26 | DocScrutinizer | you definitely can replace the kernel, and run in permanent devel-mode |
| 17:08.40 | SpeedEvil | And what is the policy towards users with secure mode on running user apps. |
| 17:08.41 | ruskie | I thought the main idea is that you could have drm enabled or disabled... atleast that's what I recall from a while ago |
| 17:08.59 | SpeedEvil | Depends on what's allowed in disabled mode. |
| 17:09.11 | SpeedEvil | For example - is the graphics driver blob. |
| 17:09.13 | ruskie | with any drm content of course being disabled when drm mode disabled |
| 17:09.20 | SpeedEvil | To take an extreme example. |
| 17:09.36 | DocScrutinizer | yes, you have two devices: one with DRM and all the nice apps, and one where you can do what you want, but not *with* what you want |
| 17:09.44 | javispedro | ruskie: aegis seems to do way more, it even handles access control to location, cellular services, ... |
| 17:09.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: fuck everything about that |
| 17:10.18 | javispedro | heck, with aegis on, an application cannot even kill() |
| 17:11.41 | RST38h | Noooooooooooooooooo |
| 17:11.46 | SpeedEvil | If you look at the n9 as a mass market device - the security model of the n900 was very questionable. |
| 17:11.57 | DocScrutinizer | it seems you slowly gradually understand my concerns |
| 17:12.07 | RST38h | Doc: Given that prospects of having nice apps are pretty thin, you still have one device |
| 17:12.10 | kerio | SpeedEvil: fuck everything about that too |
| 17:12.20 | RST38h | Doc: And whatever lawyers advised Nokia during development process have another |
| 17:12.30 | SpeedEvil | In principle, the security framework could make the device almost a different device to the user. |
| 17:12.47 | SpeedEvil | So a dev device and a user device would have a totally disparate set of software. |
| 17:12.58 | RST38h | Speed: Yes. For example, the security framework could run an embedded copyof Android and only run safe android apps inside that copy |
| 17:13.03 | SpeedEvil | Consider the best 'worst case'. |
| 17:13.07 | RST38h | Speed: Would that be useful?:) |
| 17:13.07 | javispedro | RST38h: lmao |
| 17:13.22 | SpeedEvil | We have a documented platform with drivers, on which we can run meego-ce |
| 17:13.28 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: if that's the best wors case..... can't envision the worst =) |
| 17:13.29 | RST38h | BTW, Microsoft is doing something similar onthe desktop, with the SoftGrid crap. |
| 17:13.53 | RST38h | They ship laptops with a cut down "demo" version of the Office running inside the SoftGrid |
| 17:14.11 | RST38h | Pain in the ass to remove, as it does not have uninstall option and takes lots of disk space |
| 17:14.40 | RST38h | Speed: You can run Meego on a Samsung Tab afaik (check with lardman) |
| 17:14.56 | RST38h | Speed: No need for Nokia hw to run Meego any more. |
| 17:15.06 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: Indeed. |
| 17:15.17 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: It depends on the features and the price of the device at the time. |
| 17:15.55 | RST38h | In fact, I suspect that every true-Meego-fanatic should start getting used to the thought that his hw will not be made by Nokia. Right about now. |
| 17:16.09 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 17:16.27 | RST38h | And look for some widely available ARM-based hw platform to move development to (HTC? Samsung?) |
| 17:16.45 | SpeedEvil | If you remember - similar noises were made about n900 security - which never really happend |
| 17:17.45 | RST38h | But that was before Maemo devices hired that girl from Nokia Research |
| 17:18.10 | RST38h | And before she delivered the first talk on Aegis and got heckled by AMS conference attendees |
| 17:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | now who's going to c&p all that over to #meego-arm? it's unfair we keep all the fun for us, we should share as there are quite a number of aegis/MSSF fans and even contributors over there ;-P |
| 17:18.37 | ShadowJK | meego-arm probably doesn't give a shit |
| 17:18.56 | javispedro | yeah, aegis is nokia's |
| 17:19.17 | ShadowJK | I think someone needs to make a summary of their findings in a blog post or something. |
| 17:19.27 | MohammadAG | <javispedro> if you manage to sneak a binary at all, kernel will refuse to run it |
| 17:19.31 | MohammadAG | reminds me of Symbian |
| 17:19.42 | SpeedEvil | I'll write this up on a wikipage tomorrow |
| 17:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | aegis is MSSF, and MSSF is planned for /already in meego-proper as well |
| 17:19.48 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 17:19.50 | ShadowJK | And the symbian security model really killed all third party apps :P |
| 17:20.17 | javispedro | in fact, if you are looking at the official Harmattan, look no further than aegis. Aegis defines which functions you might call if you have "GPS" token, etc. |
| 17:20.20 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Not specifically the model |
| 17:20.24 | javispedro | *official Harmattan API |
| 17:20.37 | RST38h | ShadowJK: But the signing policy that was design to create income for Symbian FOunsation |
| 17:20.41 | RST38h | designed |
| 17:21.10 | ShadowJK | RST38h, well that you had to send your binaries to this website that had their webform hardwired to a printer in a corner in an office and you just had to wait for someone to notice the printout and sign your binary before you could run it... |
| 17:21.11 | DocScrutinizer | wow, I bitched 6 months and nobody ever listened. I have to rethink a few things... |
| 17:21.18 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Some managerial idiot though it would be "a good thing" and did not consider what it would do to the ecosystem |
| 17:21.20 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@adsl-98-93-129-239.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:21.39 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Do not forget, it was like $80 per one binary signed. And three weeks. |
| 17:21.41 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 17:22.01 | RST38h | ShadowJK: In other words, a clusterfuck |
| 17:22.12 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 17:22.20 | ShadowJK | I think a forum thread or wikipage wont get nearly the attention this deserves |
| 17:22.28 | *** join/#maemo marthd (~quassel@212-183-46-223.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:22.29 | RST38h | Even after they lowered the signing price for $25/binary and established some never-working procedure for signing OSS binaries |
| 17:22.47 | ShadowJK | Yeah the webform hardwired to printer in some office corner was the OSS signing |
| 17:22.54 | RST38h | Anyways, TTG |
| 17:23.23 | ShadowJK | iirc there was ONE successful piece of oss software for symbian, and they had to hold fund raising drives to be able to afford listing in Ovi Store :P |
| 17:24.40 | ruskie | I wonder how long until there's an aegis-limp project that will just allow all... |
| 17:25.36 | *** join/#maemo Openfree^ (~Openfree`@114.86.74.29) |
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| 17:26.50 | javispedro | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan%3APlatform_Guide |
| 17:26.55 | javispedro | this is where most info is |
| 17:27.33 | javispedro | for example, I finally found how iphone-style uninstalling works |
| 17:27.46 | javispedro | there's this new field in debian control file MeeGo-Desktop-Entry-Filename: /usr/share/meegotouch/applicationextensions/calc.desktop |
| 17:28.44 | javispedro | and installer app (nonfree?) creates a temp .desktop file for it while installing even |
| 17:30.50 | GAN900 | X-Fade, ping? |
| 17:32.16 | ShadowJK | What is iphone-style uninstalling? |
| 17:33.06 | GAN900 | Tap'n'hold on home screen |
| 17:33.16 | GAN900 | Tap red x on icons to remove. |
| 17:33.26 | ruskie | so similar to symbian stuff |
| 17:33.41 | ruskie | select app -> hit C -> do you wish to remove |
| 17:34.05 | javispedro | ShadowJK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG6-TrPkT0w |
| 17:34.07 | ShadowJK | Heh, all the symbian stuff I've used had "App manager", you selected the software, it said "Unknown error", and then you selected uninstall, and it showed a progress bar, and then said "Out of memory" |
| 17:34.47 | ruskie | ShadowJK, that was also an option |
| 17:34.59 | ruskie | but selecting an app ani hitting C tended to work as well |
| 17:37.53 | ShadowJK | I accidentally hit C sometimes and assumed it'd only remove the icon |
| 17:38.34 | javispedro | shamus: lol |
| 17:38.36 | javispedro | er.. |
| 17:38.42 | javispedro | s/shamus/ShadowJk |
| 17:38.51 | DocScrutinizer | honestly guys, all this aegis stuff is not fresh shit really, it's all been around since a decade or so, and no suddenly everybody gets upset, while all laughed at me when I was rising same concerns just a week ago? How's that?? |
| 17:39.02 | MohammadAG | javispedro, that's retarded and not backwards compatible |
| 17:39.03 | MohammadAG | it should just use the package file list |
| 17:39.14 | MohammadAG | javispedro, in theory, can't aegis be circumvented? |
| 17:39.33 | javispedro | depends on what you want to circumvent |
| 17:39.57 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, originally Nokia said you could run without the DRM stuff and you'd only lose the ability to install a few pieces of software, and DRM'd movies and DRM'd music? |
| 17:40.15 | javispedro | in theory, if an application stores some crap in the bb5, and you want to get it in open mode, you can't. |
| 17:40.37 | ShadowJK | ah, that too :-) |
| 17:40.45 | DocScrutinizer | all lies, I told ya. The concept has a number of immanent requirements if you want any part of it |
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| 17:41.53 | ShadowJK | worst of all is the lack od information |
| 17:42.11 | joppu | are there any devs with a N9(50) unit in the wild? |
| 17:42.17 | DocScrutinizer | hmmmm, sorry when I failed on that |
| 17:42.22 | joppu | I mean already at this point |
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| 17:46.10 | ruskie | hmm fun... can't use a N95 radio in offline mode as well... gah... |
| 17:46.22 | MohammadAG | offline mode on symbian is retarded |
| 17:46.27 | ruskie | yeah |
| 17:46.28 | MohammadAG | joppu, not anyone here afaik |
| 17:46.33 | ruskie | everything basically broken |
| 17:47.22 | MohammadAG | it got better in FP2 |
| 17:47.47 | MohammadAG | "Device is in offline mode, continue doing soemthing?" |
| 17:48.07 | ruskie | only allows that with wifi |
| 17:48.17 | ruskie | gps doesn't function, radio won't even launch |
| 17:48.34 | Shapeshifter | how do I force a resync of the clock on the n900? "Update automatically" hasn't been working for hours now. |
| 17:48.41 | ShadowJK | In any case, whining on forums, irc and wiki isn't going to be seen by anyone... |
| 17:48.58 | joppu | I'm just working on a Fremantle icon theme for Harmattan ;) |
| 17:49.09 | ShadowJK | Someone needs to document findings in a readable form, with sentences, punctuation and paragraphs :P |
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| 17:52.21 | javispedro | ShadowJK: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Harmattan_platform_and_Platform_SDK_overview/Security_domain_overview |
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| 17:57.51 | Jef91 | Hey all - where does the libflashplayer.so reside on the n900? |
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| 18:04.06 | cityLights | finally solved all issuses and now it works |
| 18:04.09 | cityLights | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74030 |
| 18:04.28 | cityLights | soon to send it to extras-devel |
| 18:04.33 | cityLights | so much joy |
| 18:08.23 | merlin1991 | Jef91: /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so |
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| 18:11.13 | c2pLaY | hi all |
| 18:11.24 | c2pLaY | got a weird problem with wifi on nokia n900 |
| 18:11.32 | c2pLaY | wifi connection seems to time out |
| 18:11.43 | c2pLaY | if i use something like irssi, it doesn't time out |
| 18:11.49 | c2pLaY | if i stay connected to something |
| 18:12.00 | c2pLaY | but this doesn't happen with other connections |
| 18:12.31 | c2pLaY | it connects and works fine, for a short period of time |
| 18:12.36 | c2pLaY | then times out or something |
| 18:13.07 | c2pLaY | yet with irssi open it stayed connected all night |
| 18:13.18 | merlin1991 | c2pLaY: I had similar issues |
| 18:13.22 | c2pLaY | really? |
| 18:13.25 | merlin1991 | only happened with one ap at home |
| 18:13.28 | c2pLaY | wireless N problem? |
| 18:13.33 | c2pLaY | yeah same here |
| 18:13.42 | merlin1991 | I solved it by disabling the powersaving for the connection |
| 18:13.49 | c2pLaY | really |
| 18:13.52 | c2pLaY | hmm |
| 18:13.57 | c2pLaY | it drains battery really fast |
| 18:14.00 | c2pLaY | but i will test |
| 18:14.02 | merlin1991 | but that drains the battery really fast 3 hrs connected max |
| 18:14.11 | c2pLaY | thnx |
| 18:14.20 | c2pLaY | i will check back |
| 18:14.33 | c2pLaY | i swear i already tried that |
| 18:14.39 | c2pLaY | but i am going to again |
| 18:15.13 | c2pLaY | i also had a problem with the desktop crashing all the time |
| 18:15.21 | c2pLaY | but i figured it out by pure luck |
| 18:15.34 | c2pLaY | it was the wallpaper |
| 18:15.42 | c2pLaY | the galaxy universe one |
| 18:15.45 | c2pLaY | can't remember the name |
| 18:15.56 | c2pLaY | but i turned that off and no more hildon crashe |
| 18:16.07 | *** join/#maemo MoonTiger (~MoonTiger@95.Red-88-15-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:16.30 | MoonTiger | is there some trick to getting maemo5 widgets visible in the qtdesigner? |
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| 18:18.38 | c2pLaY | hey merlin1991, were you able to find any relevant posts about this issue on a forum or something? |
| 18:18.46 | MohammadAG | Gtk ones? |
| 18:18.54 | c2pLaY | i haven't been able to find anything :( |
| 18:19.03 | merlin1991 | c2pLaY: on the maemo bug tracker there is some stuff |
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| 18:19.51 | c2pLaY | taking a lookc |
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| 18:22.00 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, sorry... no qt widgets |
| 18:22.35 | MoonTiger | for example, picklistselector |
| 18:22.43 | MoonTiger | doesnt show up in the designer |
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| 18:24.31 | javispedro | ohmy, so many stuff in harmattan. |
| 18:27.12 | kerio | *things |
| 18:28.58 | MoonTiger | or is it better to make the UI dynamically in code? |
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| 18:35.07 | MohammadAG | MohammadAG, what's picklistselector? |
| 18:35.24 | MohammadAG | anyway, you can make a desktop widget with designer |
| 18:36.00 | MohammadAG | see facebrick/sticky notes/cardioalert etc |
| 18:40.54 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: speaking to yourself? |
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| 18:43.18 | MohammadAG | err, MoonTiger |
| 18:43.18 | MohammadAG | not looking at my screen while typing :P |
| 18:44.06 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, sorry ... its a listpickselector ... it doesnt appear in the designer widget toolbox |
| 18:44.32 | MoonTiger | so i wondered if they are created in code in the constructor of the dialog |
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| 18:51.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 18:51.26 | infobot | ~pong |
| 18:54.04 | MohammadAG | MoonTiger, I'm assuming you meant QMaemo5ListPickSelector? |
| 18:54.12 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, yes |
| 18:54.30 | MoonTiger | and any of the other maemo5 specific widgets |
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| 18:57.00 | MohammadAG | you can't get them in designer |
| 18:57.43 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, ok i was beginning to figure that ... so i can add the layout in the designer but then dynamically create the widgets at runtime and add them t the layout? |
| 18:58.24 | MoonTiger | one (possibly) dumb question related to that ... do i have to free the widgets i create in the destructor? or is that handled automatically? |
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| 19:00.38 | alterego | MoonTiger: as long as you supply the "parent" parameter when you create widgets, they are freed automatically. |
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| 19:01.13 | MoonTiger | wow thanks for that ... important to know :) and thnx MohammadAG for the help ... much appreciated |
| 19:01.27 | MohammadAG | MoonTiger, you can create a QWidget and shove the new widget in that :) |
| 19:01.38 | MohammadAG | and yw, but I'm lagging |
| 19:02.27 | MoonTiger | it seems just as easy to create them in the constructor ... they arent that complex |
| 19:02.54 | MohammadAG | alterego, any ideas how to make a scrolling QLabel? |
| 19:03.12 | alterego | You mean like a marquee? |
| 19:05.01 | MohammadAG | alterego, yes |
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| 19:05.42 | arvut | hi and good eve |
| 19:06.02 | MohammadAG | alterego, but only if the text doesn't fit |
| 19:06.29 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, surely you would have to subclass the label control no? |
| 19:07.00 | arvut | any idea what sgx_misr is? its some process running and jumping up to the top3 cpu suckers on my n900 |
| 19:07.18 | MohammadAG | it's your SGX going nuts |
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| 19:07.29 | MohammadAG | I doubt you can use your N900 when that happens, a reboot should fix it |
| 19:07.37 | arvut | whats sgx then? |
| 19:07.38 | MohammadAG | MoonTiger, no, doubt it |
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| 19:07.50 | MohammadAG | PowerVR SGX, the graphics chip |
| 19:07.52 | dm8tbr | the 3D engine |
| 19:08.00 | arvut | I'm using it now but its lagging like crazy |
| 19:08.02 | arvut | aha |
| 19:08.09 | arvut | i'll reboot then |
| 19:09.46 | unixSnob | stick off |
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| 19:11.39 | MohammadAG | I hate how there isn't a window title in Harmattan |
| 19:12.09 | MoonTiger | is that because of the new ui "window" model? |
| 19:12.23 | MohammadAG | it's just not displayed anywhere |
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| 19:13.02 | GAN900 | It's gonna take getting used to |
| 19:13.08 | GAN900 | I dislike big UI changes. |
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| 19:13.14 | MohammadAG | it's not the UI change |
| 19:13.22 | MohammadAG | it's the fact that the window manager is missing lots of window stuff |
| 19:13.32 | MohammadAG | window title, close |
| 19:13.51 | arvut | much better :) why would sgx go nuts? |
| 19:13.59 | alterego | I don't think it'll matter, as long as the apps are fairly easy to tell the difference between them. |
| 19:14.02 | arvut | too much on the desktop? |
| 19:14.06 | MohammadAG | no one knows, not even Nokians |
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| 19:14.10 | arvut | oh |
| 19:14.25 | arvut | hardcoded stuff? |
| 19:14.33 | dm8tbr | arvut: it's closed source and nobody sane would even want to read the source code further than necessary |
| 19:14.45 | arvut | oh |
| 19:15.11 | arvut | is it an essential part or can it be replaced? |
| 19:15.41 | dm8tbr | if you can live with a super-slow UI and no 3D acceleration... |
| 19:15.52 | arvut | aha |
| 19:16.28 | MohammadAG | alterego, true, but if the app shows something in the title? |
| 19:16.46 | unixSnob | window stick off |
| 19:16.47 | MohammadAG | Sociality shows the profile's name in the title |
| 19:17.26 | MohammadAG | is that a bot? |
| 19:17.34 | dm8tbr | wonders that too |
| 19:19.30 | alterego | Erm .. |
| 19:19.46 | alterego | Why wouldn't you know your profile? :P |
| 19:21.44 | MohammadAG | oh well, /me starts rewriting Sociality in QML |
| 19:22.49 | MohammadAG | alterego, is there a way to call methods from C++ in QML without signals/slots? |
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| 19:23.17 | MohammadAG | alterego, suppose I open YOUR profile, it'd say Tom in the title |
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| 19:32.09 | RST38h | mghm: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4UX8HByEvjk/TgeFKqoyPBI/AAAAAAAADyM/OtwYJ3Ab3FI/s1600/hipster_jesus.jpg |
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| 19:35.45 | arvut | whats icd2? running from /usr/sbin |
| 19:37.36 | MohammadAG | Internet Connection Daemon |
| 19:37.47 | MohammadAG | or Connectivity, not that it matters |
| 19:38.01 | arvut | aha :) |
| 19:38.13 | arvut | can I use it in the terminal? |
| 19:38.43 | arvut | I've been curious on how to connect to an AP thru the term |
| 19:39.49 | MohammadAG | it's a daemon, so nope |
| 19:40.05 | MohammadAG | you can use DBus to talk to it |
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| 19:41.34 | arvut | aha |
| 19:41.56 | arvut | gotta learn dbus then. could be useful |
| 19:42.05 | arvut | thru shellscripting? |
| 19:42.20 | MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control might be useful |
| 19:42.38 | arvut | cool =) ty |
| 19:42.59 | MohammadAG | err, icd2 is open source o_O |
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| 19:44.23 | arvut | so I could try to read the code and understand it then :P |
| 19:44.34 | arvut | c or c++? |
| 19:45.00 | MohammadAG | someone's confused |
| 19:45.11 | MohammadAG | from that page, (1)Get the source code of icd2 |
| 19:45.22 | MohammadAG | E: Unable to find a source package for icd2 <-- doesn't seem to be open |
| 19:46.29 | arvut | oh :/ |
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| 19:46.50 | arvut | interesting page tho |
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| 19:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | what? ...is open? |
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| 20:00.38 | MohammadAG | alterego, can two N900s sync contacts? |
| 20:02.35 | Choom | I was able to sync with the N95 that I had efore, so I'd guess they can |
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| 20:04.02 | MohammadAG | Choom, Transfer utility shows the N8, not the N900 |
| 20:07.05 | alterego | MohammadAG: don't think so, there's no bluetooth pc suite mode on the N900 |
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| 20:18.57 | arvut | is bluetooth faster than usb2.0? |
| 20:19.05 | otwieracz | No. |
| 20:19.10 | otwieracz | (IMO) |
| 20:19.25 | arvut | well, technically I mean |
| 20:20.42 | otwieracz | http://www.palowireless.com/infotooth/knowbase/general/9.asp |
| 20:21.10 | otwieracz | USB2.0: Added higher maximum bandwidth of 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s) |
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| 20:24.04 | arvut | yeah and if I understand that table correct then there are different data transfer rates for bt? |
| 20:24.40 | otwieracz | As you can see. |
| 20:24.58 | Atarii | when was the last N900 firmware update (Maemo 5)? |
| 20:25.07 | arvut | max 723.2kb/s |
| 20:25.23 | arvut | october 2010? |
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| 20:28.03 | divan | MohammadAG, you've been asking for more screenshots :) http://imgur.com/a/vCbZw#6RjuA |
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| 20:29.21 | divan | BTW, is word 'recognize' is correct for this? Or better use 'identify'? |
| 20:31.55 | jacekowski | divan: recognise |
| 20:32.21 | jacekowski | divan: recognize is spelling americunts use |
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| 20:33.10 | Choom | (the only correct spelling) |
| 20:33.10 | divan | jacekowski, oops sorry. Thanks. |
| 20:34.31 | Choom | american spelling should be normative, british spelling is so full onf nonsense |
| 20:35.04 | divan | Hmm google duel 'recognise' vs 'recognize' gives 37 000 000 vs 178 000 000 |
| 20:35.12 | MohammadAG | divan, Identify, since that's the API says |
| 20:35.38 | GAN900 | divan, rm -rf en_GB |
| 20:35.48 | divan | lol |
| 20:36.03 | GAN900 | It's senseless shit |
| 20:36.15 | *** part/#maemo budjer (5ce630e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.230.48.228) |
| 20:36.16 | GAN900 | Their empire is crumbled. |
| 20:36.21 | divan | google duel "identify music" vs "recognize music" gives 147 000 vs 56 000 |
| 20:36.27 | divan | :) |
| 20:36.32 | divan | MohammadAG, agree |
| 20:37.06 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (~hannes@80-123-23-13.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:37.23 | javispedro | someone needs to do a edition of Homefront where the invaders are the British |
| 20:37.48 | javispedro | korean invaders are so passé these days |
| 20:38.43 | jacekowski | About 14,900,000 results (0.13 seconds) |
| 20:38.46 | jacekowski | for recognise music |
| 20:38.54 | jacekowski | with only correct spelling |
| 20:39.00 | divan | jacekowski, use quotes |
| 20:39.25 | divan | 23 000 for "recognise music" |
| 20:39.45 | jacekowski | divan: and think that england is 10x smaller than usa |
| 20:39.59 | hiemanshu | javispedro: homefront was stupid, a really really bad engine |
| 20:40.02 | divan | jacekowski, I'm on your side )) |
| 20:40.53 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p54A1F3D6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:42.17 | *** join/#maemo kkito (~offs@108.Red-83-41-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:43.52 | mr_jrt | I'm able to sync my two N900's via bluetooth... |
| 20:43.54 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@adsl-98-93-129-239.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:45.19 | cityLights | can anyone test my app? |
| 20:45.29 | cityLights | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74030 |
| 20:47.55 | Atarii | is there an alternative recommended app installer, besides the default? |
| 20:48.13 | user0- | FAP |
| 20:48.16 | divan | Atarii, faster application manager |
| 20:48.35 | merlin1991 | just reflashed the n900 after a failed attempt @ building an uboot package |
| 20:48.35 | divan | and apt-get of course |
| 20:48.35 | Atarii | lolFAP ok thanks i'll install |
| 20:48.38 | user0- | FAM* |
| 20:48.55 | merlin1991 | user0-: actually the official abbrevation is FAPMAN ;) |
| 20:49.46 | divan | always wondered why default app manager uses apt-worker which run in background. |
| 20:50.02 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 20:50.07 | user0- | still getting used to this keyboard |
| 20:50.52 | user0- | and yes install fam the default ones too slow |
| 20:51.31 | user0- | regardless of the poor gui |
| 20:51.51 | user0- | feels good running xchat on such a device |
| 20:54.06 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 20:55.29 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@91-115-105-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:56.15 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr_ (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 20:56.57 | user0- | got axel working a few minutes ago |
| 20:57.27 | user0- | gona use some zenity script to make things easier |
| 20:57.54 | user0- | but arent there any download managers for maemo |
| 20:57.57 | divan | user0-, double axel or triple axel? ) |
| 20:58.55 | user0- | huh? |
| 20:59.23 | user0- | they app thats like wget but uses more than one connection |
| 20:59.30 | user0- | the* |
| 21:00.45 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48AC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:01.03 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr_ (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 21:01.55 | divan | user0-, yes, I know ) axel is also the jump in figure skating. the hardest one. |
| 21:06.48 | user0- | fetching data package info is just taking too long |
| 21:08.11 | user0- | is expecting one fucking long list |
| 21:09.20 | *** join/#maemo onen|openBmap (~quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:10.35 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 21:11.15 | cityLights | time to dream |
| 21:13.59 | arvut | are joins and quits autoexcluded in this channel btw? |
| 21:14.41 | alterego | arvut: it's a client setting .. |
| 21:14.53 | arvut | don't think I've added a rule for that for this channel |
| 21:15.02 | arvut | might have to check then |
| 21:15.36 | alterego | Well, I see them |
| 21:15.38 | MohammadAG | alterego, any problems with wifi in the latest meego version? |
| 21:15.42 | alterego | So it must be :P |
| 21:15.54 | alterego | MohammadAG: I've never witnessed an issue with wifi |
| 21:16.22 | alterego | But some people seem to, I think it's a combination of buggy driver and certain routers. |
| 21:17.49 | MohammadAG | kills dhcp |
| 21:18.03 | arvut | O.o |
| 21:18.16 | arvut | why would you kill dhcp? |
| 21:18.57 | MohammadAG | alterego, I noticed you can strobe the flash in the camera app, I'm guessing there are no checks? |
| 21:19.16 | MohammadAG | arvut, why not, manual IP assigning ftw |
| 21:19.28 | arvut | oh ic :) |
| 21:20.07 | alterego | MohammadAG: I think the firmware takes care of that. |
| 21:20.16 | alterego | It wont fire more than it can handle. |
| 21:20.23 | alterego | I'd have to check though |
| 21:20.32 | *** join/#maemo tommis (~tommik@a91-153-171-147.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:23.37 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: It depends. |
| 21:23.48 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: It will not strobe more than 500ms. But. |
| 21:24.08 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: There are no restrictions in the driver from it strobing 500ms spaced 10ms apart. |
| 21:24.14 | SpeedEvil | Don't do that, it will fry stuff. |
| 21:25.55 | MohammadAG | alterego, ^ |
| 21:25.56 | *** join/#maemo mikkov (~mikkov@a88-114-144-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:26.13 | alterego | Fair nuff |
| 21:26.17 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, I just tried it three times, was sure MeeGo didn't implement checks :p |
| 21:26.32 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, FYI, the strobing is flashlight mode |
| 21:26.39 | MohammadAG | the low power kind, not the full burst |
| 21:27.16 | SpeedEvil | ah - then that's fine |
| 21:27.20 | SpeedEvil | it can go forever |
| 21:27.33 | alterego | Well, not forever ;) |
| 21:27.37 | SpeedEvil | I've had it running for several hours to drain the battery as a calibrated load |
| 21:27.46 | alterego | Heh |
| 21:27.51 | SpeedEvil | And stuck a luxmeter on it at the beginning and end |
| 21:27.53 | SpeedEvil | same |
| 21:27.55 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-90585.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 21:28.15 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@89.241.2.180) |
| 21:31.49 | MohammadAG | alterego, now I'm getting wifi is not available on the device :P |
| 21:32.58 | alterego | Heh |
| 21:33.33 | alterego | I am suprised the wifi is still so crap for people, networking is the most fundamental part of an OS imo :/ |
| 21:34.06 | MohammadAG | alterego, it always worked before :P |
| 21:34.11 | arvut | alterego: in meego or maemo? |
| 21:34.19 | alterego | arvut: meego |
| 21:35.25 | arvut | ah.. well it sucked in maemo (massive powerdrain) until the october firmware last year |
| 21:35.46 | arvut | now I think its fairly awesome |
| 21:36.35 | alterego | Well, I'd like to think we have better, newer drivers in MeeGo ;) |
| 21:37.08 | *** join/#maemo chigga (~chigga@cpe-72-190-51-24.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 21:37.18 | arvut | the current ones seems to be good enough. what we need are better batteries :P |
| 21:38.42 | SpeedEvil | There are 1600mAh batteries on ebay |
| 21:39.13 | arvut | same size |
| 21:39.15 | arvut | ? |
| 21:39.43 | MohammadAG | reboot fixed it, yay |
| 21:40.06 | arvut | I bought an extended battery from mugen-power, 2400mAh. awesome but big and heavy |
| 21:40.47 | arvut | MohammadAG: fixed what? reboots seems to do the job for everyone lately :P |
| 21:42.44 | MohammadAG | wifi not being available |
| 21:42.59 | arvut | ahh |
| 21:43.22 | *** join/#maemo gruinelli (~gruinelli@19-233.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 21:45.50 | Atarii | arvut does the bigger battery mean the back doesn't fit on? |
| 21:46.29 | arvut | Atarii: you get a new one with it, got a hole but no lid for the camera. |
| 21:46.41 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-094-216-241-022.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:46.50 | arvut | and ofcourse a switch to turn cam on/off |
| 21:47.28 | Atarii | ah ok |
| 21:47.34 | Atarii | got any pics/link? |
| 21:47.37 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF4C0A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:47.49 | Atarii | was just looking into a spare battery + external charger |
| 21:47.52 | arvut | good to have with ya, I use the original mostly but when I need more stable powersource I'll switch to the bigger one. |
| 21:48.40 | arvut | Atarii: google mugen power n900, hard to miss ;) |
| 21:48.55 | Atarii | ok thanks |
| 21:49.08 | arvut | yw |
| 21:51.44 | Atarii | ah I see, think I'll stick with something smaller |
| 21:51.54 | Atarii | although, do younotice a lot of difference? |
| 21:53.18 | arvut | yeah, its not even twice as big but I get almost 3 times longer wifitime with it |
| 21:53.35 | Atarii | wow that is quite significant |
| 21:53.42 | Atarii | decisions, decisions! |
| 21:54.14 | *** join/#maemo OviQ2G (~quassel@95-90-111-216-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 21:54.52 | arvut | yeah, like I said: good to have with you but I use the original one mostly. other one is just a backup or for heavy stuff |
| 21:55.55 | arvut | not too expensive either way. but that 1600mAh SpeedEvil spoke of sounds interesting tho |
| 21:56.07 | Atarii | might just get a couple of standard ones, pretty cheap on ebay |
| 21:57.13 | SpeedEvil | There is a list on the wiki somewhere with tested results. |
| 21:57.33 | *** join/#maemo perlite_ (~perlite@111-240-172-131.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 21:58.14 | javispedro | lcuk: congratulations! |
| 21:58.50 | SpeedEvil | Oh - indeed ! |
| 21:58.59 | Atarii | thanks SpeedEvil |
| 21:58.59 | arvut | SpeedEvil: do you know if that 1600 one is the same size/fits inside the original backcover? |
| 21:59.20 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:02.43 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (~hannes@178-190-117-178.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:07.19 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 22:13.08 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@82.113.99.152) |
| 22:26.00 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: just wanted to say a personal thank you on your work on the lock-screen btw :) looks awesome and the sliding mechanism looks so much smoother than on the original lockscreen :) |
| 22:28.06 | *** join/#maemo orbiting (~scott@d64-180-144-74.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 22:29.57 | MohammadAG | mikki-kun, you're welcome :D |
| 22:30.06 | MohammadAG | it also works on MeeGo as of 5 minutes ago |
| 22:31.50 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: well, i am not into meego :) i will stick to maemo, didn |
| 22:31.55 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:32.04 | mikki-kun | didn't see so far what makes it better than maemo :) |
| 22:32.12 | MohammadAG | it's open, that's all |
| 22:32.40 | mikki-kun | does it have openssh-server/client? :) |
| 22:32.53 | MohammadAG | from first boot |
| 22:33.07 | mikki-kun | ok, then i might actually give it a shot soon :) |
| 22:33.14 | *** join/#maemo I-C-Wiener (~quassel@h84253.upc-h.chello.nl) |
| 22:33.20 | MohammadAG | time to test Sociality on it |
| 22:33.32 | mikki-kun | socialty is a social network app? |
| 22:33.53 | MohammadAG | facebook |
| 22:34.02 | mikki-kun | ewww, the worst of them all x) |
| 22:35.08 | *** join/#maemo mouser__ (~mouser__@24-240-92-57.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 22:38.19 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: will you also make some sort of gui-app for the lockscreen maybe so we could throw stuff into different regions we want? :) |
| 22:38.28 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@port-92-206-40-209.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 22:42.12 | arvut | hi again, whats skyhost? |
| 22:42.40 | mikki-kun | i think it has something to do with skype |
| 22:43.05 | mikki-kun | or maybe gps |
| 22:43.12 | arvut | oh yeah, that might make sense |
| 22:43.29 | arvut | sky as in short for skype :) |
| 22:44.05 | arvut | so whats this new lockscreen app you've been chattin about? |
| 22:44.32 | arvut | something to replace the slider with the clock next to it? |
| 22:44.39 | mikki-kun | arvut: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1655 <--- seems skype :) |
| 22:44.40 | povbot | 04Bug 1655: skyhost hogging cpu after closing skype |
| 22:44.55 | arvut | povbot: O.o |
| 22:44.55 | povbot | arvut: Error: "O.o" is not a valid command. |
| 22:45.02 | arvut | haha |
| 22:45.03 | mikki-kun | ROFL XD |
| 22:45.11 | arvut | I'm tired x) |
| 22:45.17 | mikki-kun | me as well ^^ |
| 22:45.35 | mikki-kun | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1039475 <--- that's the lockscreen :) |
| 22:45.43 | arvut | eyeballing povbot not valid =P |
| 22:46.12 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:48.18 | MohammadAG | I need to update the screenshot |
| 22:48.19 | MohammadAG | http://i52.tinypic.com/2090uf7.jpg |
| 22:50.50 | arvut | MohammadAG: neat stuff ;) |
| 22:51.23 | arvut | gonna install it tomorrow. now, sleeph! |
| 22:51.39 | arvut | so, nn, going astray again |
| 22:51.39 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: maybe you could introduce a switch for the media player for people who don't use the n900 to play music like me :) ohhh and one "bug" i found was in regards of the language 0.1 had... it didn't look up the language i am using, but the localtion i am living in, so when i told my n900 "use thai localization, but english as language" it would show up thai-numbers/letters |
| 22:52.17 | MohammadAG | mikki-kun, Qt bug sadly |
| 22:52.18 | arvut | haha |
| 22:52.24 | mikki-kun | especially annoying due to nokia eff'ing up the swiss localization which they blantly put as "ch_fr" which is _WRONG_! not all swiss people speak french -.- |
| 22:52.53 | MohammadAG | I'm simply passing the format to display date, it gets the localization itself |
| 22:53.58 | mikki-kun | just wanted to mention it :) maybe you could introduce a small settings dialog for that option in the future for people who want to tell their devices where they are at, but want to use a different language while operating it |
| 22:54.36 | *** join/#maemo ketas (~ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee) |
| 22:56.21 | *** join/#maemo alturiak (mg@tyrael.eu) |
| 22:59.24 | *** part/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:10.16 | *** join/#maemo LordVan (~lordvan@gentoo/developer/LordVan) |
| 23:10.19 | LordVan | hi |
| 23:10.30 | pronto | hi |
| 23:10.47 | LordVan | got a question: i wanted to do apt-get dist-upgrade to get PR 1.3 |
| 23:10.57 | LordVan | but it wants debianutils |
| 23:11.35 | LordVan | which in turn seems to have some deps so it wants to remove just about all apps I installed |
| 23:11.41 | LordVan | any ideas why? |
| 23:13.04 | javispedro | do not use apt-get dist-upgrade to get PR1.3, use application manager |
| 23:13.25 | javispedro | (though it will probably also fail) |
| 23:15.09 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 23:18.37 | LordVan | it does not show it |
| 23:19.16 | LordVan | i get the fealing that i got it already and that phone info shows wrong version |
| 23:19.47 | LordVan | since the last update i did sorta manually :) |
| 23:20.51 | merlin1991 | LordVan: what version is your mp-fremantle-generic-pr |
| 23:24.01 | LordVan | lol not installed status 'pn' |
| 23:24.28 | LordVan | wth.. |
| 23:24.41 | LordVan | should I ust install that? |
| 23:24.53 | LordVan | i think i might have accidentally removed it ;) |
| 23:25.45 | merlin1991 | mp-fremantle-generic-pr is the metapackge that holds all system software (pr version) |
| 23:26.11 | LordVan | k so I should reinstall it right? |
| 23:27.48 | merlin1991 | unless you installed cssu |
| 23:28.17 | LordVan | not yet was going to, but not sure if i got pr1.3 and the faq says i need it |
| 23:28.44 | Macer | ugh |
| 23:28.52 | Macer | my damn usb port fell off |
| 23:28.59 | Macer | inside my n900!! |
| 23:29.05 | Macer | is that fixable??? |
| 23:29.29 | javispedro | Macer: right now?? |
| 23:29.36 | Macer | earlier |
| 23:29.38 | trx | there are several threads on TMO Macer |
| 23:29.49 | trx | one is sticky in N900 section |
| 23:29.52 | trx | check it out |
| 23:29.55 | Macer | trx: simple solder? |
| 23:29.57 | Macer | ok |
| 23:30.02 | trx | if possible |
| 23:30.04 | SpeedEvil | Macer: It depends - the general answer is probably not easy. |
| 23:30.05 | Macer | i will take a look |
| 23:30.08 | trx | depends on damage |
| 23:30.22 | SpeedEvil | The pads can be ripped off in some cases, which makes the repair annoying |
| 23:30.31 | Macer | can a charging pad charge it? |
| 23:30.39 | SpeedEvil | huh? |
| 23:30.55 | Macer | a charging pad to give the battery power |
| 23:30.59 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 23:31.15 | LordVan | hmm unmet deps: |
| 23:31.17 | LordVan | he following packages have unmet dependencies: |
| 23:31.20 | Macer | damn |
| 23:31.22 | SpeedEvil | There are a variety of 'emergency' battery chargers, and I think an actual nokia one |
| 23:31.34 | Macer | isnt worth it |
| 23:31.43 | LordVan | mp-fremantle-generic-pr: Depends: libsndfile1 (= 1.0.20-0maemo1+0m5) but 1.0.20-0maemo1+ogg is to be installed |
| 23:31.45 | Macer | i would have gotten the pad if it worked |
| 23:32.04 | SpeedEvil | http://www.bestofferbuy.com/Battery-AC-Wall-USB-Port-Charger-for-Nokia-BL-5J-BL5J-p-56088.html?currency=GBP&utm_source=gbase&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=gbase_uk |
| 23:32.04 | LordVan | Depends: libsdl-mixer1.2 (= 1:1.2.6-5+0m5) |
| 23:32.09 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@80.83.239.40) |
| 23:32.09 | Macer | but to buy a battery charger for a phone that may not work |
| 23:32.16 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:32.34 | Macer | i need to repair it |
| 23:32.43 | Macer | it seems to have come clean off |
| 23:32.45 | LordVan | should i uninstall ogg support? |
| 23:32.56 | *** join/#maemo the_lord (~david@190.142.140.119) |
| 23:32.57 | SpeedEvil | Macer: Do you have the USB port? |
| 23:33.04 | Macer | yes |
| 23:33.16 | SpeedEvil | Macer: If so, can you take a high resolution image of your bottom. |
| 23:33.27 | Macer | of the usb port? |
| 23:33.28 | SpeedEvil | Err - your USB port bottom where it attaches to the PCB |
| 23:33.38 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - mostly asleep. |
| 23:33.39 | Macer | if i can get it out |
| 23:33.41 | merlin1991 | LordVan: ogg support souldn't conflict with the mp |
| 23:33.41 | Macer | sure |
| 23:33.50 | merlin1991 | I suggest a reflash |
| 23:34.01 | SpeedEvil | If it's not off, take the battery out! |
| 23:34.43 | Macer | it is off |
| 23:34.47 | Macer | battery died |
| 23:34.56 | LordVan | i don't really want to reflash if possible though. |
| 23:35.02 | Macer | when i tried to charge it |
| 23:35.23 | the_lord | Hi! is there a way to filter sms before the notifications and the insertion into the database? |
| 23:35.39 | LordVan | although I think it might be better since I do have some other issues (like having to manually start pulse after reboot sometimes:)) |
| 23:36.27 | SpeedEvil | Macer: you're trying to work out if the tracks on the PCB have been ripped off, or if the solder joint has failed. If the solder joint has failed, repair is fairlyeasy |
| 23:39.19 | Macer | ok |
| 23:39.39 | Macer | where can i upload this? :) |
| 23:39.41 | LordVan | merlin1991: reflash leaves /home untouched right? |
| 23:39.59 | merlin1991 | yes |
| 23:40.42 | LordVan | well i still make a backup anyway. ;) I have to still use M$ windoze for flashing do I? |
| 23:41.00 | merlin1991 | LordVan: you can flash from windows and linux |
| 23:41.16 | merlin1991 | ~flashing |
| 23:41.16 | infobot | i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 23:41.28 | LordVan | nice ;) is there some way to flash SSU directly? ;) |
| 23:41.55 | merlin1991 | sadly not |
| 23:41.58 | Macer | http://tech.rancorous.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/IMG_20110626_183555.jpg |
| 23:42.01 | Macer | there it is |
| 23:42.08 | Macer | does that look too serious? |
| 23:42.28 | MohammadAG | VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!1 :P http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197 |
| 23:42.29 | povbot | 04Bug 197: kernel builds, but device keeps rebooting |
| 23:42.46 | MohammadAG | povbot, stfu |
| 23:42.46 | povbot | MohammadAG: Error: "stfu" is not a valid command. |
| 23:42.54 | MohammadAG | well it is now |
| 23:43.02 | Macer | haha |
| 23:44.10 | LordVan | ic so i have to install PR1.3 then follow ssu install faq |
| 23:44.44 | merlin1991 | yes |
| 23:44.51 | merlin1991 | but it's pretty straight forward |
| 23:45.07 | LordVan | it'd be cool to have some repartitioned firmwafre with more / page though (i know there r tuturials, but u know;) |
| 23:45.38 | LordVan | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:45.47 | Macer | SpeedEvil: http://tech.rancorous.net/?p=12 |
| 23:45.55 | LordVan | should type slower when chatting on my n900 ;) |
| 23:45.59 | Macer | that is probably the best i can do as far as a pic goes .. but hopefully that helps |
| 23:46.01 | merlin1991 | LordVan: you can't get more / space |
| 23:46.14 | LordVan | err i meant /opt sry |
| 23:46.32 | SpeedEvil | Macer: Ok - the brown bits are the underside of the copper tracks where it's been ripped from the board |
| 23:46.35 | LordVan | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:46.41 | merlin1991 | MohammadAG: mind to paste your sed for increased /home space? |
| 23:47.08 | MohammadAG | paste? no |
| 23:47.14 | SpeedEvil | Macer: The good part is that the 5 pads at the back seem to have perhaps peeled off cleanly. |
| 23:47.26 | merlin1991 | MohammadAG: paste as in copy paste to here :D |
| 23:47.27 | MohammadAG | sed -i 's/2048/XXXX/g' bigfateMMCimage.bin |
| 23:47.38 | merlin1991 | LordVan: ^ there you go :) |
| 23:47.56 | SpeedEvil | Macer: In principle, if this is true - with a little glue to hold it properly onto the board, it should work OK |
| 23:47.58 | MohammadAG | you can extend an existing /home |
| 23:48.04 | MohammadAG | easily, with gparted |
| 23:48.18 | LordVan | true if i resize the fat32 |
| 23:48.37 | merlin1991 | umount mydocs, resize home partition, resize home fs, redo fat partition |
| 23:48.45 | LordVan | would be good for me ;) |
| 23:48.48 | Macer | so that small brown speck is a piece of the board? |
| 23:48.52 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.164.176.148) |
| 23:48.53 | Macer | was it already being held on with glue?? |
| 23:49.27 | LordVan | just someone tell me why i didn't think of just using gparted ;) |
| 23:49.40 | Macer | well.. i don't have a tool to open my n900 so i'm kind of screwed for the time being anyways until i get a repair kit |
| 23:50.37 | Macer | i didn't force it. do these things just wear off the board? |
| 23:50.44 | Macer | i've been a baby with my n900 :) |
| 23:51.48 | LordVan | anyway I shall re-flash tomorrow then install parted and get that sorted :) too bad stupid cam app needs fat32 fs |
| 23:52.47 | *** join/#maemo chigga (~chigga@cpe-72-190-51-24.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 23:53.07 | LordVan | anyway thanks for the help merlin1991 & MohammadAG i really gotta sleep now it's 01:52 here and I gotta get up in the morning. nite &cya |
| 23:57.09 | *** join/#maemo beford (~fercho@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 23:57.25 | SpeedEvil | Macer: yes |
| 23:57.40 | SpeedEvil | Macer: The spot is a part of the board. |
| 23:58.10 | SpeedEvil | Macer: The tracks are made from copper, and are held securely to the structure of the board by being plated to it - there isn't any glue as such |
