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| 00:46.19 | *** join/#maemo angelox|laptop (~angelox_1@189-46-240-80.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 00:46.21 | angelox|laptop | Hi all |
| 00:46.36 | angelox|laptop | only flashing rootfs and kernel i'll be at PR 1.3 ? |
| 00:48.08 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@97.8.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 00:48.09 | c2pLaY | depends on what you are flashing it? with |
| 00:50.02 | angelox|laptop | if i only flashed they,and i flash everything now again,i'll brick it? |
| 00:51.53 | c2pLaY | not sure if that made sense |
| 00:52.03 | c2pLaY | is english your first language? |
| 00:52.36 | angelox|laptop | no,sorry :( |
| 00:53.09 | c2pLaY | maybe ask if someone here speaks your language |
| 00:53.16 | c2pLaY | 341 people |
| 00:53.21 | c2pLaY | good chances man |
| 00:54.09 | angelox|laptop | I'm Brazillian..some one speaking Portuguese?? |
| 00:54.21 | angelox|laptop | c2pLaY: btw,sorry my bad english :( |
| 00:54.27 | c2pLaY | its ok |
| 00:54.28 | *** join/#maemo kpoman (~chatzilla@189.61.51.177) |
| 00:54.29 | Sc0rpius | it's ok |
| 00:54.34 | Sc0rpius | though I couldn't understand either |
| 00:54.39 | c2pLaY | hope someone would take pitty on me if i was in brazil |
| 00:54.49 | c2pLaY | ;) |
| 00:54.52 | Sc0rpius | pity |
| 00:54.56 | c2pLaY | umm yeah |
| 00:54.58 | c2pLaY | typo |
| 00:55.03 | c2pLaY | what do you know |
| 00:55.06 | Sc0rpius | heh |
| 00:55.06 | c2pLaY | i rarely use that word |
| 00:55.08 | c2pLaY | ;) |
| 00:55.30 | Sc0rpius | angelox|laptop why would you want to flash your phone? |
| 00:56.08 | Sc0rpius | vc explícalo in portugués |
| 00:56.12 | Sc0rpius | and I'd understand |
| 00:57.08 | angelox|laptop | some days ago my phone wasn't booting because i flashed a wrong kernel,i needed to flash only kernel and rootfs(was from pr 1.3) and it worked,and now i'd like to know if my phone is in pr 1.3 now...it was pr 1.2 |
| 00:57.18 | angelox|laptop | please check if you can understand |
| 00:57.39 | Sc0rpius | well go to Settings -> About product and what version does it say? |
| 00:57.57 | c2pLaY | i think he's saying it won't post |
| 00:58.02 | c2pLaY | so he can't check |
| 00:58.08 | angelox|laptop | let me check |
| 00:58.11 | c2pLaY | oh |
| 00:58.18 | Sc0rpius | you thought his phone didn't boot? :) |
| 00:58.28 | c2pLaY | well that's what he said... |
| 00:58.29 | c2pLaY | lol |
| 00:58.36 | Sc0rpius | he confused "only" with "just" |
| 00:58.38 | Sc0rpius | that's all |
| 00:58.47 | Sc0rpius | "I needed to flash just the kernel and rootfs..." |
| 00:58.59 | c2pLaY | oi |
| 00:59.00 | Sc0rpius | because in portuguese, only and just is the same word |
| 00:59.05 | Sc0rpius | ARE |
| 00:59.31 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:59.59 | angelox|laptop | sorry,i forgot only word :\ but i know what that means |
| 01:00.32 | Sc0rpius | well my phone says 20.2010.36-2 but I have CSSU installed so I'm not sure what was PR1.3 version number but it's something very similar |
| 01:00.39 | angelox|laptop | ouch... Version: unknown |
| 01:00.44 | Sc0rpius | really? |
| 01:00.53 | angelox|laptop | yes! (LOL) let me reboot |
| 01:00.59 | MohammadAG | Sc0rpius, PR1.3 is exactly that |
| 01:01.24 | MohammadAG | the CSSU doesn't change that cause the ovi store is epic and doesn't handle other versions |
| 01:01.31 | Sc0rpius | haha |
| 01:01.34 | Sc0rpius | didn't know that |
| 01:02.01 | Sc0rpius | I never heard of a case where the version is unknown |
| 01:02.16 | MohammadAG | sometimes it gets unset |
| 01:02.34 | FIQ|n900 | <MohammadAG> the CSSU doesn't change that cause the ovi store is epic and doesn't handle other versions |
| 01:02.36 | FIQ|n900 | wat |
| 01:02.52 | angelox|laptop | osso-product-info says unknown too |
| 01:02.58 | MohammadAG | if we change the version number the ovi store would break |
| 01:03.13 | FIQ|n900 | why...? |
| 01:03.18 | MohammadAG | angelox|laptop, dpkg -l mp-fremantle-* |
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| 01:03.28 | MohammadAG | cause the store's retarded |
| 01:03.47 | FIQ|n900 | indeed, if that is true... |
| 01:03.50 | Sc0rpius | if he's not in PR1.2 and the version is unset the upgrade popup will never appear, right? |
| 01:04.14 | angelox|laptop | MohammadAG: 20.2010.36-2 |
| 01:04.15 | MohammadAG | if the package isn't present yes |
| 01:04.22 | MohammadAG | angelox|laptop, latest version |
| 01:04.43 | MohammadAG | feel free to run /var/lib/dpkg/info/mp-fremantle-generic-pr.postinst |
| 01:04.55 | Sc0rpius | that will fix his problems? |
| 01:05.06 | MohammadAG | osso-product-info -s OSSO_VERSION="RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0" 2> /dev/null || exit 0 |
| 01:05.25 | Sc0rpius | what's that || exit 0 for |
| 01:05.30 | Sc0rpius | :) |
| 01:05.31 | angelox|laptop | MohammadAG: should i flash whole my firmware image to don't get any problem? |
| 01:05.37 | MohammadAG | idk, it's the postinst not me :P |
| 01:05.40 | Sc0rpius | no |
| 01:05.43 | Sc0rpius | angelox|laptop, no |
| 01:05.43 | MohammadAG | no |
| 01:05.55 | Sc0rpius | just run the post install script like MohammadAG said |
| 01:06.08 | angelox|laptop | Oh three "no"..ok i'll do it |
| 01:06.21 | angelox|laptop | :_ |
| 01:06.33 | angelox|laptop | :) * |
| 01:07.39 | angelox|laptop | MohammadAG: i have only:/var/lib/dpkg/info/mp-fremantle-generic-pr.list |
| 01:08.48 | MohammadAG | osso-product-info -s OSSO_VERSION="RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0" 2> /dev/null |
| 01:09.14 | Sc0rpius | that's weird |
| 01:09.26 | angelox|laptop | ok.. |
| 01:09.40 | Sc0rpius | yeah just do that and your phone will be 100% ok |
| 01:10.00 | Sc0rpius | and type it EXACTLY like that! |
| 01:10.04 | FIQ|n900 | sure about that? |
| 01:10.09 | Sc0rpius | about what exactly? |
| 01:10.20 | FIQ|n900 | about it being OK |
| 01:10.23 | angelox|laptop | i joint to irc to copy and paste on my n900 |
| 01:10.30 | FIQ|n900 | as it for some reason didn't do it right from the beginning |
| 01:10.30 | Sc0rpius | no, but that's what all support IT guys say all the time |
| 01:10.49 | Sc0rpius | you don't need to do that angelox|laptop |
| 01:10.55 | Sc0rpius | it's better to SSH from your PC to your phone |
| 01:10.58 | Sc0rpius | and then copy paste it there |
| 01:11.03 | angelox|laptop | ah yes...i forgot that :) |
| 01:11.05 | angelox|laptop | thank you |
| 01:11.55 | angelox|laptop | FIQ|n900: ? |
| 01:12.09 | FIQ|n900 | nvm |
| 01:12.37 | angelox|laptop | ok |
| 01:12.57 | angelox|laptop | i didn't know the ctcp version,only ctcp time... |
| 01:17.11 | angelox|laptop | thank you,worked |
| 01:20.03 | Sc0rpius | :) |
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| 01:23.36 | angelox|laptop | liked the N900,but it didn't like me :( |
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| 01:33.41 | angelox|laptop | reboots |
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| 02:33.24 | *** join/#maemo infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 02:33.24 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED, and keep clear of that shit! (we're fed up with 3 user requests / day) |
| 02:33.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 02:33.42 | infobot | :), DocScrutinizer |
| 02:39.07 | *** join/#maemo infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 02:39.07 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED, and keep clear of that shit! (we're fed up with 3 user requests / day) |
| 02:39.20 | DocScrutinizer | even some SIP providers allow that, but you'd need a SIP client that can send INFO messages then |
| 02:39.57 | DocScrutinizer | so for I only know of twinkle, and that's not running on maemo |
| 02:40.08 | DocScrutinizer | so far* |
| 02:40.26 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 03:22.59 | SpeedEvil | http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/439717632-3-6-inch-dual-sim-cards-Slider-and-QWERT-keyboard-input-FM-radio-N950-mobile-phone-wholesalers.html |
| 03:23.55 | ds3 | Is that a Nokla product? |
| 03:24.04 | Seablade | didn't take long for chinese knockoffs |
| 03:24.06 | SpeedEvil | Well - I'll let you guess on that one. |
| 03:24.14 | bindi | fake |
| 03:25.13 | Seablade | Well considering it has pics of at least 2 different phones listed, yea Ill go with fake trying to rip you off;) |
| 03:25.14 | wmarone_ | nah, not a Nokla |
| 03:25.19 | Hurrian | surprising that chinese symbian knockoffs work as good as the real symbian |
| 03:25.25 | wmarone_ | it's quite clearly spelled "Nokia" |
| 03:25.54 | wmarone_ | hehe |
| 03:25.59 | wmarone_ | with a DROID 2 knockoff design |
| 03:36.05 | DocScrutinizer | moo |
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| 03:38.36 | Hurrian | moo |
| 03:38.55 | Hurrian | Doc: heard of anyone unpacking that M6 root filesystem? |
| 03:42.50 | Hurrian | hmm, i don't think rootfs.lzo is a ubifs dump a la m5 root |
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| 03:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: not yet, other than on device ;-) |
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| 04:02.06 | DocScrutinizer | wmarone_: are you sure about the spelling? seen several Nokla phones ;-P |
| 04:02.32 | Hurrian | Doc: this lzo file sure is odd |
| 04:03.05 | Hurrian | after forcibly adding the magic i get header corrupted |
| 04:03.15 | Hurrian | mmm, let's try prepending the magic instead |
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| 04:07.04 | Termana | good morning |
| 04:07.09 | opdf2 | is it 1gb physical ram on n9? |
| 04:07.22 | Termana | opdf2, AFAIK yes |
| 04:07.53 | opdf2 | meego multitask looks awesome |
| 04:08.49 | dymaxion | is it me or am I spending far too much time hunting down every N9 teaser video and watching them over and over again! How sad! :-) |
| 04:11.09 | opdf2 | i really hope there's room for 4 great OSes |
| 04:11.41 | opdf2 | dymaxion: you saw gsmarena's first look? |
| 04:12.19 | dymaxion | yep... I can't wait to get one.. hopefully in HK they will bring em out early... I'll be straight down the Nokia store to play :-) |
| 04:12.44 | opdf2 | too bad they closed Nokia flagships stores in usa |
| 04:12.51 | dymaxion | really.. that's a shame... |
| 04:12.59 | dymaxion | in Asia they still have very strong brand |
| 04:13.54 | dymaxion | it's a shame ppl have been moving to HTC etc... my other half has a Sony Experia arc, and I've got a temporary (HTC Aria) broken... poor call quality , poor build.. |
| 04:14.36 | dymaxion | after a while the OS gets completely boring and cameras always disappoint... bring on the N9... ! (Unfortuantely my N8 died after 4 months) |
| 04:16.02 | dymaxion | dead N8 <--- was my own fault... trying to use Maps, lost on a mountain during a tropical rainstorm which was more like a power-shower! :-) |
| 04:16.15 | opdf2 | loving the pentaband umts |
| 04:16.29 | opdf2 | need to see more pentaband devices |
| 04:16.36 | dymaxion | yep... I get frustrated that Nokia don't market that aspect |
| 04:17.14 | dymaxion | in fact they are rubbish at marketing their best features... if only they have Jobs' hypnotic presentations... |
| 04:18.00 | dymaxion | waching marko Ahtisaari's presentation was a bit painful... so many long pauses, dead pan face etc. |
| 04:19.38 | opdf2 | yeah Apple's foray into physical retail store space is astounding |
| 04:19.54 | opdf2 | something Sony and Nokia have tried and failed in america |
| 04:20.12 | opdf2 | Nokia deserves better marketing soo badly |
| 04:20.23 | dymaxion | would it be fair to say there's a bit of "home" support because Apple is US company? |
| 04:20.48 | opdf2 | yes |
| 04:21.26 | opdf2 | its hard to change the usa's state of mind on Nokia.. the brand is recognized as cheap in usa |
| 04:21.42 | dymaxion | I think the US mentality is very different from Europe... I'm from UK originally, and we find American marketing lacking subtlety, and too many superlatives on matters of to little substance |
| 04:22.30 | opdf2 | americans are easily subdued by marketing tricks |
| 04:22.44 | dymaxion | and the reason is that US carriers have always controlled Nokia, not allowing their top phones on the market etc unless on punitive contact terms for Nokia.. I find it strange that ppl in the USA don't realise how far behind (mobile networks) they are vs rest of Europe/Asia |
| 04:22.59 | dymaxion | you seem to be immune! :-) |
| 04:23.39 | Hurrian | lzop: rootfs.lzo: you need a newer version of lzop |
| 04:23.44 | Hurrian | uuuuuuuuuugh |
| 04:24.39 | opdf2 | unfortunately i dont see N9 succeeding in usa unless subsidized |
| 04:25.45 | opdf2 | jeez even then, i dont think anyone can break iphone's hypnotic powers |
| 04:26.40 | opdf2 | only major carriers that carry the iphone can survive in usa |
| 04:26.56 | Hurrian | why do people love the iphone? |
| 04:26.57 | dymaxion | yes it drives me mad... ppl using the iphone camera and thinking it's the best thing on the planet, or wondering why reception is bad and blaming the network, but I stand next to them with my N8 and no problem... etc. |
| 04:27.07 | opdf2 | =((( |
| 04:27.34 | Hurrian | it's extremely overpriced, the camera is the shittiest 5MP i've ever seen, battery life is meh, and the screen has terrible viewing angles |
| 04:27.44 | dymaxion | then I see low light photos on the iphone... and it's rubbish... i have done a lot of photos on my other half's Experia Arc... again worlds apart... hypnotised :-( |
| 04:28.03 | opdf2 | majority of people don't care about all that |
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| 04:28.18 | dymaxion | yes viewing angles... ppl would care if they realised! |
| 04:28.32 | dymaxion | they get annoyed and think it's normal... |
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| 04:28.59 | opdf2 | ios is monkey easy to use, smooth, streamlined experience...and the hardware is a fashion accessory |
| 04:29.17 | opdf2 | + marketing is no fail |
| 04:29.25 | dymaxion | I wonder about the software stack on N9 though.. whether meego allows deep linking between apps as Mango has... I think inter-woven apps is key to a functional OS |
| 04:29.59 | opdf2 | mango is great too... i dont want to see duopoly os |
| 04:30.12 | Hurrian | reminds me of the iFruitphone in GTA IV: no buttons, no reception, no storage capacity, all ego |
| 04:30.24 | Hurrian | actually, i cant believe they predicted "no reception" right |
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| 04:30.40 | dymaxion | also iOS clever lock in.... proprietary connectors... ! my mates have spend hundreds of pounds on accessories... docks, speakers etc.. don't want to move away from iOS cos that will all be wasted |
| 04:31.16 | dymaxion | then charged to license use of the proprietary connectors... |
| 04:31.33 | Hurrian | herp da dee derp, i love laughing at people who bought expensive-ass Bose docks way back when and now on the iphone, they're "unauthorized accessories" |
| 04:31.45 | Hurrian | does anyone still remember what a 3.5 is? |
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| 04:41.31 | Hurrian | lzop: rootfs.lzo: header corrupted (checksum error) |
| 04:41.37 | Hurrian | rrrrrrraaaaaaage |
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| 06:04.27 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 06:05.55 | SpeedEvil | fails at lollery. |
| 06:05.58 | SpeedEvil | Also sleep. |
| 06:06.25 | DocScrutinizer | so sleep! |
| 06:06.52 | SpeedEvil | Can't sleep, clowns will eat me. |
| 06:07.00 | DocScrutinizer | while I did some updates to your new wikipage :-) |
| 06:10.06 | DocScrutinizer | wonders how long it will take til finally can get service of some 14 y o dude brings the shopping from supermarket, on a phonecall - here in friggin Germany |
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| 07:32.02 | khertan | Morning all ! |
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| 08:00.17 | DocScrutinizer | ~moo |
| 08:00.17 | infobot | ACTION mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass |
| 08:03.31 | dm8tbr | mood groaning |
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| 08:35.32 | DocScrutinizer | morning dm8tbr |
| 08:36.10 | DocScrutinizer | anybody else getting "java exception: nullpointer" for this probably interesting address? https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=1462104 |
| 08:36.39 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, it says "You are not authorized to access this page" |
| 08:36.42 | dm8tbr | 'you're not authorized...' |
| 08:36.56 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, am I about to v& by the US feds? |
| 08:37.00 | Termana | to be* |
| 08:37.21 | Termana | shiiite, there's a white van outside |
| 08:37.27 | dm8tbr | they'll want to make sure and nuke you from orbit |
| 08:38.05 | DocScrutinizer | nonsense, these are the long-to-disclose parts of Nokia's FCC approval for N9(50?) |
| 08:38.32 | DocScrutinizer | https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=339630&fcc_id=%27LJPRM-680%27 |
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| 08:39.08 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:39.46 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: If I follow the link from the second URL I get a null pointer too now |
| 08:40.42 | DocScrutinizer | so is it still yesterday in that par of USA where FCC resides? |
| 08:41.10 | DocScrutinizer | my clock shows 2011-06-24 here |
| 08:41.50 | dm8tbr | mh, by now it should be past midnight everywhere but alaska IIRC |
| 08:41.59 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:42.20 | dm8tbr | oh, also past midnight in alaska too |
| 08:42.25 | dm8tbr | no excuses then |
| 08:42.43 | DocScrutinizer | well, FCC never hurries or rushes things |
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| 08:43.35 | dm8tbr | prolly an official has to push some buttons and move some levers manually |
| 08:43.53 | jonwil | bah, my code wont run |
| 08:44.00 | jonwil | The binary just gives a segfault and I cant work out why |
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| 08:44.41 | DocScrutinizer | https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=1462101 Request for confidentiality Cover Letter(s) >> Pursuant to Sections 0.457 (d) (l) (ii) and 0.459 of the Commissionâs Rules, the Applicant hereby requests confidential treatment of some of the information accompanying this Application of FCC ID: LJPRM-680 and as outlined below: - - - Exhibit 4: Block Diagram Exhibit 5: Schematic Diagrams Exhibit 12: Theory of |
| 08:44.42 | DocScrutinizer | Operation / Description of Circuitry<<< GRRRRRR >:-( |
| 08:45.22 | Termana | Hmm, I can't even access that |
| 08:45.35 | Termana | They all tell me I'm not authorised |
| 08:45.42 | DocScrutinizer | seems direct links don't work |
| 08:45.58 | DocScrutinizer | https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=339630&fcc_id='LJPRM-680' |
| 08:46.17 | DocScrutinizer | try this |
| 08:46.19 | jonwil | Anyone know how to tell why my binary might be segfaulting? |
| 08:46.26 | jonwil | Its just basically an empty cpp file |
| 08:47.01 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 08:47.14 | DocScrutinizer | wrong type of runtime libs |
| 08:47.17 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 08:47.43 | jonwil | well I am running the standard N900 install fully updated |
| 08:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | arm ELF on x86? |
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| 08:49.33 | jonwil | ARM |
| 08:49.41 | jonwil | this is an ARM ELF running on my N900 |
| 08:49.53 | DocScrutinizer | doublecheck |
| 08:49.59 | jonwil | its definatly ARM |
| 08:50.04 | jonwil | since gcc -v says its ARM |
| 08:50.12 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 08:50.17 | jonwil | and since scratchbox says "FREMANTLE_ARMEL" |
| 08:50.23 | DocScrutinizer | I'd use file nevertheless |
| 08:50.50 | DocScrutinizer | also strace should usually help a lot, no? |
| 08:51.20 | dm8tbr | It's much more fun if you have a binary compiled for the wrong libc. |
| 08:51.25 | DocScrutinizer | even gdb if nothing else |
| 08:51.33 | dm8tbr | then you can try to run it and it will say 'File not found' |
| 08:51.34 | jonwil | file says "ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 08:51.41 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: that's what I meant |
| 08:52.31 | jonwil | where do I get strace for the N900? |
| 08:52.37 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: strace it |
| 08:52.44 | DocScrutinizer | tools repo |
| 08:53.51 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Debugging |
| 08:55.00 | nid0 | not enough's ssl secured tbh |
| 08:55.01 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Installation |
| 08:55.05 | nid0 | oops |
| 08:56.34 | jonwil | http://pastebin.com/w9YqtS5y |
| 08:56.37 | jonwil | Thats what strace has to say |
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| 09:01.48 | jonwil | aha, I found it, somehow its transmitting as ascii |
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| 09:09.04 | DocScrutinizer | looks very strange |
| 09:10.30 | MohammadAG | anyone doing Maemo 5 devel with Qt might find these classes interesting https://gitorious.org/maemo5-foss-lockscreen/enhanced-lockscreen/trees/master/backends |
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| 09:12.44 | lardman|gone | Jaffa: re build targets, yeah I noticed that |
| 09:12.54 | lardman | morning all |
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| 09:16.39 | jonwil | I think I might have a solution to bug 8347... |
| 09:16.41 | povbot | 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available |
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| 09:25.38 | Jaffa | lardman: I didn't get a chance to expand on it last night. |
| 09:26.00 | Jaffa | lardman: Instead I was busy trying to build a Harmattan app for qgil to run :) |
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| 09:26.41 | lardman | Jaffa: no worries |
| 09:27.26 | lardman | I'm going to try some coding this weekend, assuming I can set up the SDK off line |
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| 09:32.48 | MohammadAG | Harmattan SDK installer is an online installer |
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| 09:33.25 | jonwil | There are manual setup steps |
| 09:34.59 | MohammadAG | where? |
| 09:35.02 | Termana | There better be, otherwise I will rage |
| 09:35.03 | Termana | :p |
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| 09:37.28 | RST38h | Yaahooo: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2011/06/23/nokia-meego-1.2-harmattan-qt-quick-components |
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| 09:39.57 | lardman | urgh, online, that's a pita |
| 09:40.11 | lardman | it's Python though, so I guess I could download the components and do an offline install |
| 09:40.27 | lardman | or I can curse TalkTalk for not getting on with my phone line + broadband |
| 09:40.55 | jonwil | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Troubleshooting_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Installing_Harmattan_Platform_SDK_manually |
| 09:41.02 | jonwil | That should be it |
| 09:42.08 | Jaffa | RST38h: Fantastic news isn't it, on Qt Quick Components :-) |
| 09:43.56 | jonwil | The only problem I had getting the Harmattan SDK going was that Gentoo is missing a package for scratchbox-devkit-hashutils-squeeze-sdk |
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| 09:45.29 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, thoughts on QML and Qt components? |
| 09:45.51 | MohammadAG | before I start rewriting Sociality :p |
| 09:47.30 | RST38h | Jaffa: It is |
| 09:47.44 | RST38h | Jaffa: The whole thing has a sense of finality to it though |
| 09:49.04 | lardman | thanks jonwil |
| 09:50.10 | RST38h | Meanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/24/nokias-android-flirtations-revealed/ |
| 09:51.23 | lardman | heads off to Bristol for the day, see you all later |
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| 09:54.35 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: QML good. Qt Components - API looks good, but not tried using in anger yet. |
| 09:57.23 | MohammadAG | so should I make the switch for Harmattan? |
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| 10:00.36 | MohammadAG | yay figured out how to restart X |
| 10:01.31 | jonwil | I wish I could get this thing to properly debug libcsd-sms.so or libsms.so |
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| 10:05.57 | jonwil | if I could single step the code in libsms or libcsd-sms, I would have this licked no problems |
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| 10:10.20 | divan | Have anyone seen the Boost libraries build for Maemo? |
| 10:13.05 | gri | Meegotouch applications by default have a home and back button. When using the "blanco" (n9) theme, the back button is hidden and the toolbar moves to bottom. Does the same behaviour also apply to the qml-components or do I manually have to find out whether I should place the toolbar on top or bottom and create/hide specific buttons? |
| 10:16.48 | MohammadAG | I'm also interested in that |
| 10:17.47 | mikkov | divan: in Extras, even multiple version |
| 10:17.58 | mikkov | s |
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| 10:19.11 | khertan | MohammadAG: until you didn't have need for advanced text manipulation ... qml is not too bad |
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| 10:20.43 | khertan | MohammadAG: also be carreful to not load use qml native component for loading things. The user agent isn't properly set and so it s didn't work on 3G with many phone isp |
| 10:21.13 | MohammadAG | khertan, you mean QWebView in QML? |
| 10:21.29 | khertan | MohammadAG: http://gitorious.org/maenews <- works on wifi, not over 3G |
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| 10:22.30 | khertan | MohammadAG: qwebview, XmlListModel, and everything that made call to a QNetworkFactory |
| 10:23.23 | MohammadAG | what if I use C++ for the backend and QML for the UI? |
| 10:23.39 | khertan | MohammadAG: it ll be fix quickly, it s a well know bug |
| 10:24.17 | khertan | MohammadAG: it ll be ok as you can set the useragent in the qnetworkfactory qnetworkrequest in c++ |
| 10:28.19 | gri | by the way: Is there a way that ListView etc. completely load the model instead of creating delegates while scrolling? (For scrollbar reasons) |
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| 10:30.03 | MohammadAG | gri, not sure but I think qmltube does it |
| 10:31.27 | gri | MohammadAG: I'll take a look at that, not sure if it only creates a flickable and stacks the items or something like that |
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| 10:32.01 | jonwil | bah, I cant get this working |
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| 10:34.39 | jonwil | I cant get the debugger to stop on the function I want it to stop on |
| 10:34.43 | jonwil | so I can see whats going on with this code |
| 10:34.49 | jonwil | and what the numbers look like :( |
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| 10:53.30 | jonwil | bah I give up |
| 10:53.48 | DocScrutinizer | (<jonwil> I think I might have a solution to bug 8347...) what? really? |
| 10:53.50 | povbot | 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available |
| 10:54.01 | jonwil | If I could just get the debugger to stop on sms_gsm_cb_routing_ntf I might be able to see whats going on |
| 10:54.40 | jonwil | If I can debug the .asm for it I can verify my theories of how the data looks |
| 10:54.53 | jonwil | and can see if in fact my potential fix idea is fesable |
| 10:56.44 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, why doesn't gdb work? |
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| 10:57.33 | DocScrutinizer | It's supposed to stop at breakpoints you've set |
| 10:57.50 | jonwil | The problem I have is that libcsd-sms.so (and hence libsms.so) is loaded dynamically |
| 10:57.56 | jonwil | so its hard to get GDB to stop on it |
| 10:57.58 | DocScrutinizer | of course I guess debugging .so is a bit more tricky |
| 10:58.28 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, you'd need to debug the process that loads the .so |
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| 10:59.45 | jonwil | aha, I have an idea |
| 11:00.17 | vi__ | so do I, get some golf clubs and meet me on the roof in 20 minutes. |
| 11:01.27 | DocScrutinizer | those not interested in golf can meet me in the beergarden down the street in 5 min |
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| 11:12.41 | jonwil | finally, I have what should be a breakpoint where I want it |
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| 11:21.12 | jonwil | ok, I think I know whats going on |
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| 11:35.51 | jonwil | Whats the correct command for apt-get to say "I dont care what version I have, re-download it anyway"? |
| 11:36.11 | psycho_oreos | apt-get install --reinstall ? |
| 11:36.22 | jonwil | thanks |
| 11:36.24 | jonwil | thats what I needed |
| 11:36.30 | psycho_oreos | nw |
| 11:36.34 | jonwil | now I can be sure my libcsd-sms.so file isn't busted |
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| 11:42.54 | jonwil | ok, I now have a proper libsms.so with my one byte change in place |
| 11:44.19 | jonwil | now I just need the tower to send me another CBSMS |
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| 11:48.49 | jonwil | ok, NOW the tower decides not to send me a CBSMS |
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| 12:03.29 | jonwil | one more CBSMS and I can verify that my fix is the right solution at this point |
| 12:08.09 | jonwil | Thankyou to nokia for harmattanbeta\libsms0_i386.deb for letting me see how the CBS code works on harmattan and that my fix for Maemo is on the right track :) |
| 12:09.34 | jonwil | I just hope all this starting and stopping of CSD isn't putting my phone at risk somehow |
| 12:12.46 | jonwil | If I could find out how to decode a CBSMS or the SMS alphabet, I could verify that what dbus just sent my dbus test program is correct |
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| 12:23.17 | edheldil | what fix are you working on? |
| 12:23.30 | jonwil | bug 8347 |
| 12:23.31 | povbot | 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available |
| 12:23.46 | jonwil | I have a dump of what should be a cell broadcast SMS |
| 12:23.57 | jonwil | but I need some code or something to decode the actual message to see if its valid |
| 12:24.07 | jonwil | i.e. if the data decodes to a valid looking string |
| 12:35.08 | *** part/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@117.136.12.243) |
| 12:42.37 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: have you looked at the osmocom or whatever the acronym mailing listsl?/ |
| 12:42.53 | jonwil | currently playing with some ofono code |
| 12:46.26 | khertan | currently playing ... hum not ... qml isn't funny ... |
| 12:46.35 | khertan | trying to resolve that : http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt-qml/2011-June/002745.html |
| 12:47.13 | jonwil | If this decodes properly, then all we need for cbsms to work should be a one-byte change to libsms.so plus a userspace daemon to wire up to the IncomingCBS signal |
| 12:47.18 | jonwil | I mean userspace widget |
| 12:47.23 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/ - and the coresponding |
| 12:47.26 | jonwil | which can do something with the incoming SMS |
| 12:47.35 | vi__ | :wq |
| 12:47.37 | vi__ | :Q |
| 12:47.39 | vi__ | :q! |
| 12:47.46 | SpeedEvil | open source base station project |
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| 12:48.39 | jonwil | ok, ofono test code is correct |
| 12:50.03 | jonwil | I see output of EastVicPark which seems to be correct |
| 12:50.29 | jonwil | that reflects a suburb near where I live which I assume is the nearest Optus GSM tower |
| 12:50.31 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 12:50.38 | jonwil | or the one that the phone has decided to talk to anyway |
| 12:50.53 | SpeedEvil | You took a break from this? |
| 12:51.01 | jonwil | yes I took a break for a while |
| 12:51.38 | jonwil | it was only yesterday when I started playing with harmattan-beta-SDK and specifically the libsms0 i386 package that was included |
| 12:51.47 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 12:52.15 | SpeedEvil | Tried applying for harmattan dev? |
| 12:52.42 | jonwil | nope, not interested in harmattan |
| 12:52.46 | jonwil | interested in maemo |
| 12:52.50 | jonwil | fremantle |
| 12:52.52 | jonwil | since thats what my hardware runs |
| 12:53.17 | jonwil | only value of harmattan-beta-sdk is info to help with understanding fremantle |
| 12:53.18 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 12:53.19 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning for hw. |
| 12:53.24 | SpeedEvil | but yes. |
| 12:53.33 | jonwil | I dont want or need new hardware :) |
| 12:53.35 | SpeedEvil | Still keeping my n900 for a while. |
| 12:53.50 | jonwil | of note is that harmattan SDK contains libbmeipc-dev package for harmattan version of bme/libbmeipc |
| 12:54.30 | SpeedEvil | Wondering, as in principle your skillz might be useful for n950/n9/ |
| 12:55.00 | khertan | jonwil: think of it two time ... as many have problem with sim recognition in their n900 |
| 12:55.06 | xd13 | is meego going to be community supported like maemo ? |
| 12:55.13 | khertan | i doubt mine used all days will last for 1 more year |
| 12:55.33 | SpeedEvil | xd13: Meego - yes. |
| 12:55.33 | khertan | xd13: there is already a community edition for n900 :) |
| 12:55.43 | SpeedEvil | xd13: Harmattan - that's another question |
| 12:55.49 | xd13 | huh |
| 12:55.53 | xd13 | isn't meego harmattan ? |
| 12:55.59 | xd13 | i thought it was one word |
| 12:56.02 | khertan | there is more chance of a MeeGo community edition ... than maemo harmattan and fremantle |
| 12:56.09 | SpeedEvil | Harmattan is meego in some ways. |
| 12:56.18 | xd13 | chances are i will b buying n9 |
| 12:56.23 | SpeedEvil | Harmattan forked from meego 12 monthsish ago |
| 12:56.33 | khertan | SpeedEvil: oh ... really ? |
| 12:56.39 | khertan | it s 1.2 ? |
| 12:56.41 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 12:57.11 | SpeedEvil | It's a mash of meego + maemo components. |
| 12:57.14 | khertan | hum ... oh it could be 1.2, as it was forked 12 month ago ... |
| 12:57.15 | khertan | :( |
| 12:57.41 | chem|st | khertan: it is 1.2 upwards |
| 12:58.07 | chem|st | after 1.3 they moved most devel people to it |
| 12:58.14 | jonwil | From looking at the SDK, most of the lower level bits are still the closed-source Maemo bits |
| 12:58.19 | chem|st | or was it 1.2 already? |
| 12:58.20 | xd13 | all i know is depending on the price of the n9 when it comes out i'll either wait for a price drop or purchase |
| 12:58.22 | jonwil | cell stack for example |
| 12:58.24 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Indeed. |
| 12:58.53 | jonwil | Give me an N9 with the keyboard and touchscreen of the N900 (stylus included) and sell it at retail and I will be VERY interested |
| 12:58.58 | *** join/#maemo mikkov (~mikkov@a88-114-144-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:59.15 | chem|st | jonwil: n950 devel is it |
| 12:59.17 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:59.18 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: An open n9 with perhaps a reverse engineered security framework and android... |
| 12:59.27 | SpeedEvil | alien-android |
| 12:59.35 | xd13 | n950 man they rly need 2 put that out for people 2 purchase |
| 12:59.39 | Corsac | RE security framework? why so? |
| 12:59.41 | chem|st | sadly we wont see any resistive screens any time soon again |
| 12:59.41 | SpeedEvil | xd13: ++ |
| 12:59.49 | BCMM | the keyboard is important. the n900 is the smallest netbook i've ever seen; phone calls are a bonus |
| 12:59.53 | khertan | jonwil: welcome to the club |
| 13:00.03 | chem|st | BCMM: +1 |
| 13:00.04 | khertan | keyboard is essential |
| 13:00.06 | jonwil | The N950 is good for dev but no good as a daily use phone |
| 13:00.10 | SpeedEvil | Corsac: Well - I'm going off some of Doc's comments - I haven't investigated exactly how the scurity framework will work. |
| 13:00.14 | khertan | jonwil: ? |
| 13:00.14 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: ? |
| 13:00.16 | xd13 | i don't know, if n900 didn't have phone capability i would probably have an android phone right now and no n900 |
| 13:00.37 | xd13 | jonwil wut y not? |
| 13:00.37 | Corsac | Doc doesn't have a clue about security, the only thing he sees is DRM |
| 13:00.37 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: I don't personally see why. |
| 13:00.40 | khertan | think that MeeGo community edition is better and better |
| 13:00.55 | jonwil | I mean that because its not possible to replace, if you use it as a daily phone and its damaged, stolen or otherwise has problems, you are in trouble |
| 13:00.57 | khertan | will probably not switch to android ... due to poor python support |
| 13:00.57 | SpeedEvil | needs to try installing meego CE |
| 13:01.16 | xd13 | thats y u need to take care of ur phone |
| 13:01.21 | jonwil | yeah I do take care |
| 13:01.24 | xd13 | i've had n900 since its rls in 2009 |
| 13:01.26 | jonwil | but things happen beyond my control |
| 13:01.26 | SpeedEvil | khertan: I don't mean switching to android - I mean to be able to run externals |
| 13:01.29 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Ah |
| 13:01.29 | xd13 | its in mint condition right now |
| 13:01.42 | xd13 | i never put a screen protector on it so a few slight marks but except for that perfect |
| 13:01.46 | chem|st | khertan: python... what about uploading your personal data to google... |
| 13:01.48 | SpeedEvil | xd13: You can take care of the phone, and it can still develop wierd faults. |
| 13:01.55 | xd13 | very true |
| 13:01.58 | SpeedEvil | Also - the hinge looks damn fragile to me. |
| 13:02.03 | xd13 | but n900 has been like a godsend to me |
| 13:02.07 | SpeedEvil | Can anyone comment on how the hinge feels? |
| 13:02.17 | khertan | mine was dropped three from 1,5 meter on floor without impact :) |
| 13:02.38 | xd13 | as much as i love a keyboard i'm thinking if i could get used to on screen buttons...........i will miss the keyboardi think |
| 13:02.44 | khertan | think n900 will be the perfect device with more ram and larger screen |
| 13:02.50 | khertan | exactly what is n950 |
| 13:02.57 | xd13 | ya |
| 13:03.01 | xd13 | and better screen |
| 13:03.13 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N950 |
| 13:03.13 | khertan | n900 screen is pretty good |
| 13:03.18 | SpeedEvil | See that - for diffenences |
| 13:03.33 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 13:03.46 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:04.10 | xd13 | can someone explain to me tft and olded so i don't have 2 look it up, i rly should know it but i don't |
| 13:04.14 | xd13 | and which is better |
| 13:04.18 | khertan | non-Zeiss f/2.2, 28mm focal kength, 10cm to inf. focus <<< so this is why they abandon it ! |
| 13:04.23 | SpeedEvil | OLED is LED based |
| 13:04.34 | SpeedEvil | khertan: ? |
| 13:04.55 | khertan | SpeedEvil: speculation |
| 13:04.57 | SpeedEvil | It emits light. It is more efficient at low amounts of white on screen |
| 13:05.13 | SpeedEvil | khertan: Yes - I'm failing to parse that as a sentance with meaning |
| 13:05.24 | xd13 | is one better than the other or r there good/bad to both sides ? |
| 13:05.28 | SpeedEvil | Due to the use of different display technologies, on the N9, developers should avoid one pixel width fonts(?) and graphical objects with lines one pixel wide. Also avoid the extensive use of bright colors, especially white, when developing for OLED displays as this increases the power consumption (typical for OLED displays). |
| 13:05.51 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, |
| 13:06.39 | lcuk | single pixel use is tricky to use in a ux that involves scaling |
| 13:06.50 | lcuk | and also smudges muchly |
| 13:06.53 | lcuk | when you AA it |
| 13:07.18 | SpeedEvil | It's not that simple. |
| 13:07.29 | SpeedEvil | If you're doing AA, you need to know the hardware layout, and deal with it |
| 13:07.38 | jonwil | ok, so should I post my Cell Broadcast SMS findings to the mailing list? |
| 13:07.46 | SpeedEvil | Any arrangement that attempts to do AA without knowuing the pixel orientation and setup fails hard |
| 13:07.56 | xd13 | aa ? |
| 13:08.03 | SpeedEvil | Anti-Aliasing |
| 13:08.07 | xd13 | ah |
| 13:08.27 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, of course |
| 13:08.33 | lcuk | but I did some testing earlier this yyear |
| 13:08.34 | jonwil | ok, will post to the mailing list then |
| 13:08.41 | lcuk | and was very vocal about the issues of lines |
| 13:08.44 | BCMM | SpeedEvil: surely it's OK provided you don't attempt subpixel hinting? |
| 13:08.59 | BCMM | (which is a recipe for ugly and headaches anyway) |
| 13:09.18 | xd13 | wut r the chances nokia is just teasing us about n950 ? |
| 13:11.13 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-134.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 13:12.02 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, single thickness clock: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110313_051154.ciroclock.scr.png then panned onto a "desktop" http://liqbase.net/liq.20110320_032054.liqbase-playground.scr.png then the fremantle same http://liqbase.net/Screenshot-20110314-225450.png |
| 13:12.31 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, unless realtime rendering of single thickness lines can be done everywhere their recommendation is right. |
| 13:12.45 | SpeedEvil | They can't. |
| 13:13.25 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning that 'AA' - can make thins much worse if you just try to pretend it's a simple triplet display. |
| 13:15.08 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, http://alienryderflex.com/sub_pixel/ |
| 13:18.13 | SpeedEvil | err - no |
| 13:18.32 | chem|st | we need to get people not to buy N9s... |
| 13:18.35 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_Matrix_Family |
| 13:18.43 | BCMM | see, i don't know if my eyes are weird or what, but i see obvious coloured fringes in the subpixel example |
| 13:18.48 | BCMM | and it's horrible |
| 13:18.50 | xd13 | what is nfc ? |
| 13:18.59 | chem|st | near field communications |
| 13:19.04 | xd13 | which is ? |
| 13:19.09 | chem|st | payment method |
| 13:19.29 | xd13 | oh wow that thing |
| 13:19.44 | MohammadAG | saying it's a payment method isn't exactly right :p |
| 13:19.51 | *** join/#maemo mikkov (~mikkov@a88-114-144-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:19.55 | chem|st | its a chip that can do what the name sais, prolly used for payment and other things |
| 13:20.01 | dm8tbr | nfc is rfid on steroids |
| 13:20.07 | dm8tbr | and it's just that |
| 13:20.12 | chem|st | MohammadAG: yeah but for users it is just that |
| 13:20.26 | dm8tbr | if you want payments, that's a protocol on top of that involving smart-card chips etc |
| 13:20.33 | chem|st | dm8tbr: growing muscels? |
| 13:20.40 | xd13 | don't need it |
| 13:20.41 | chem|st | or breasts? |
| 13:20.45 | MohammadAG | nope |
| 13:20.52 | MohammadAG | the N9 can pair bluetooth devices with NFC |
| 13:20.56 | MohammadAG | or send photos |
| 13:20.59 | dm8tbr | chem|st: making it think it's stronger than it is ;) |
| 13:21.04 | MohammadAG | devs can use it to send crap |
| 13:21.11 | *** join/#maemo valdyn_ (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 13:21.25 | dm8tbr | does the n9 have nfc with secure element? |
| 13:21.29 | chem|st | MohammadAG: yeah it is another BT only working on close range |
| 13:21.55 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~Chewtoy@c80-216-56-179.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 13:21.56 | chem|st | nfc is said to do the same as BT was said... |
| 13:22.13 | chem|st | but more secure in some way |
| 13:22.33 | SpeedEvil | chem|st: BT can be read at a hundred meters easily |
| 13:22.39 | SpeedEvil | this may not be desirable for NFC |
| 13:23.31 | BCMM | any short-range thing can probably be done at longer ranges if you have a directional antenna and no respect for following spec |
| 13:23.43 | SpeedEvil | NFC is near-field. |
| 13:23.54 | SpeedEvil | It drops off as 1/r^4, not 1/r^2 |
| 13:24.21 | SpeedEvil | So at 10 times the range, the signal is down 10000 times, not 100. |
| 13:24.32 | lcuk | they made a special EM signal? |
| 13:24.44 | SpeedEvil | It's M, not E |
| 13:25.11 | dm8tbr | SpeedEvil: it might couple into objects in the near field though and if your're lucky/unlucky they are resonant... |
| 13:25.23 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:25.36 | SpeedEvil | Simplifying a lot for those that don't understand. |
| 13:25.40 | chem|st | SpeedEvil: the capabilities payment, data transfer, doorlocks |
| 13:26.05 | SpeedEvil | Depending on stuff. |
| 13:26.08 | nid0 | you can be much more inventive with nfc than that though |
| 13:26.23 | chem|st | SpeedEvil: not talking about hardware though |
| 13:26.25 | SpeedEvil | NFC has a lot of meanings to a lot of people, and the devices do not always interoperate |
| 13:26.31 | nid0 | putting my phone on my bedside table and having it go auto silent for the night would be far more useful |
| 13:26.39 | nid0 | only takes an nfc sticker on the table |
| 13:27.01 | SpeedEvil | And for the NFC 'reader' to be very low power and active continuously. |
| 13:27.05 | SpeedEvil | Something that I question. |
| 13:27.38 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 13:27.45 | *** join/#maemo dneary_ (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 13:31.41 | *** join/#maemo BluesLee (~held@ip-178-202-182-84.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 13:33.23 | jonwil | What makes NFC different to all those transit cards or office door cards that already exist? |
| 13:33.48 | jonwil | other than being built into a phone |
| 13:33.50 | X-Fade | jonwil: you can influence the data. |
| 13:33.52 | jonwil | instead of being a separate card |
| 13:34.11 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: It's a reader too |
| 13:34.16 | jonwil | oh nice |
| 13:35.09 | SpeedEvil | I suspect in practice 'our'a ccess to it will be very strongly limited for seciruty reasons. |
| 13:35.31 | jonwil | I posted all my Cell Broadcast SMS stuff to the devel mailing list |
| 13:36.49 | RST38h | Meanwhile: A Russian woman died of a heart attack at her own funeral, after waking up to find praying mourners filing past her coffin. |
| 13:37.25 | gri | In the future I also have to put a NFC sticker at my cat when the rfid chip gets old? :D |
| 13:37.53 | jonwil | I look forward to a day when I can pay someone else money right then and there with a card, no need to worry about having to find an ATM to get cash from or hoping the other guy has an expensive merchant account with Visa or MasterCard |
| 13:37.57 | nid0 | no particular reason to |
| 13:38.09 | nid0 | for purely identifying a chip, nfc has no benefits over rfid |
| 13:38.15 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: As I understand it the NFC payments thing is _not_ peer-peer |
| 13:39.45 | jonwil | I guess I was thinking of something like Square for iPhone only using the NFC reader already in the phone |
| 13:40.23 | jonwil | and someone finding a way to convince the credit card companies to support it without the need to spend huge bucks on expensive merchant account annual fees etc |
| 13:40.51 | jonwil | but I doubt the credit card companies want to make it easier for Joe Blogs to accept credit cards, the risks are too big |
| 13:41.03 | jonwil | After all, Joe Blogs might really be Joe the fraudster |
| 13:41.22 | nid0 | that would be possible with debit cards, but no way credit cards are going to take the risks on reversible transactions |
| 13:42.22 | jonwil | anyhow, this is a moot point right now as the N900 sitting in front of me has no NFC :P |
| 13:42.46 | jonwil | and I have no need to be able to accept payment from random people in this way |
| 13:43.12 | nid0 | device location aspects of nfc are way more interesting to me anyway |
| 13:44.20 | jonwil | I think using NFC as a security device has possibilities, i.e. instead of using your keys to get inside your house, you swipe your phone over the reader and the door unlocks. |
| 13:44.56 | jonwil | Although given that there have been alternatives to standard keys for years and very few houses use them, I doubt that's a big market |
| 13:45.23 | nid0 | the problem is that door unlocks with alternative methods generally also have a key for backup |
| 13:45.42 | nid0 | which makes the alternative method kind of redundant as the lock may as well not have it and remain just as pickable |
| 13:46.20 | jonwil | Personally I would err on the side of security and not have key backup at all |
| 13:46.46 | nid0 | most people dont like, for example, being locked in/out of their house if there's a power cut though |
| 13:46.52 | nid0 | or if the reader breaks |
| 13:46.55 | nid0 | or if their phone breaks |
| 13:46.57 | jonwil | Thats why you power the lock with both batteries and mains |
| 13:46.57 | nid0 | etc |
| 13:47.04 | jonwil | If the mains goes off, the batteries kick in |
| 13:47.21 | divan | Is there any QtDesigner/Creator plugins for Maemo-specific widgets(like Maemo5ValueButton)? |
| 13:47.26 | nid0 | and how long's the battery last? my keyed lock can last through an infinite-length power outage |
| 13:47.36 | *** join/#maemo gri_ (~gri@p4FCEC871.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:47.53 | jonwil | You can also have an external plug where you can connect standard off-the-shelf batteries in case of emergency |
| 13:48.28 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 13:48.33 | nid0 | you're then introducing weaknesses into the lock and housing |
| 13:48.40 | jonwil | true |
| 13:49.09 | jonwil | but ultimatly if you want more security than a standard keyed lock, you have to give up something somewhere |
| 13:49.22 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: The other issue is that what happens if the n9 battery dies |
| 13:49.28 | jonwil | Thats a good point |
| 13:49.45 | nid0 | swipey card locks and similar are great for looking fancy, but theyre generally shitty for actual security because theyre either bypassable by design or risk being unopenable with failures either in the lock or device unlocking it |
| 13:50.44 | jonwil | swipe card locks are best in environments where you need to give a bunch of different people keys and you want auditing and logging |
| 13:50.47 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@82.113.99.43) |
| 13:50.59 | jonwil | hence why office buildings use them |
| 13:51.02 | jonwil | and hotels use them |
| 13:51.37 | nid0 | another key reason places like them use them though is there're people on hand if the lock suddenly doesnt work for any reason |
| 13:51.41 | RST38h | And they are also generally perfect for unlocking doors with a credit card pushed into the gap between the door and the frame |
| 13:51.55 | nid0 | where if you come home at 3am for a night out and the lock fails you're shit out of luck |
| 13:52.41 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@h110141.upc-h.chello.nl) |
| 13:52.41 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@unaffiliated/realitygaps) |
| 13:53.35 | nid0 | this building errs on the side of caution with it's rfid entry doors, it has several that relevant fobs will work on and uses magnetic locks |
| 13:53.45 | nid0 | the downside ofc being powercut = doors all unlocked |
| 13:55.19 | jonwil | Auto-open-on-powercut tends to be mandated for safety reasons |
| 13:55.29 | khertan | (15:48:46) SpeedEvil: jonwil: The other issue is that what happens if the n9 battery dies <<< nfc can work without battery |
| 13:55.40 | jonwil | although auto-open-on-fire-alarm also seems to be mandated |
| 13:55.40 | nid0 | precisely, but on a house it equals a great way to bypass the lock :P |
| 13:55.49 | SpeedEvil | khertan: yes, it can. |
| 13:56.02 | SpeedEvil | khertan: The question is - what does it do without power - implementations vary. |
| 13:56.36 | SpeedEvil | khertan: Does it rely on a back-end to do the right thing - for example pair with bliuetooth speakers, or open your door, with the NFC chip being a dumb radio. |
| 13:56.49 | khertan | would love to see device with digital print reader for unlocking (but which work fast) |
| 13:56.52 | SpeedEvil | Or are there smarts in the NFC chip that are able to do stuff independantly. |
| 13:57.06 | SpeedEvil | Capacitive screen with resolution to read prints. |
| 13:57.13 | SpeedEvil | khertan: Also - iris recognition |
| 13:57.34 | jonwil | The mythbusters busted fingerprint scanners as a security idea |
| 13:57.46 | jonwil | although iris recognition works |
| 13:57.49 | khertan | iris will be unusable in sun light condition and pretty slow |
| 13:58.05 | jonwil | voice recognition could work |
| 13:58.19 | khertan | jonwil: fingerprint is still better than putting dumb four number code |
| 13:58.21 | SpeedEvil | khertan: It's not slow |
| 13:58.34 | khertan | SpeedEvil: i mean on an mobile phone |
| 13:58.41 | ruskie | besh security... something you have, something you are and something you know |
| 13:58.49 | SpeedEvil | khertan: ah - yes - you do need to move the camera to the eye |
| 13:58.52 | SpeedEvil | ruskie: naah. |
| 13:58.58 | SpeedEvil | ruskie: There is _much_ better than that. |
| 13:59.08 | SpeedEvil | Something you have, something you are, and something you don't know. |
| 13:59.11 | khertan | want an integrated stungun |
| 13:59.42 | ruskie | wants a tazer that looks like a phone he can hand off to a mugger and arm it in the process... |
| 13:59.44 | khertan | so someone still your phone ... and detect then thief aren't the trusted user ... and stun it |
| 14:00.30 | nid0 | tbh, im happy that the n9 does at least come with theft tracking software |
| 14:00.31 | khertan | and i also an api to activated it to stupid user saying that khweeteur sucks because it s not done in qml |
| 14:00.42 | khertan | nid0: ? there is on ? |
| 14:00.50 | khertan | s/on/one ? |
| 14:01.02 | nid0 | yeah, theres a piece of software in the included software list called "track and locate" or sth |
| 14:01.21 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: WHO? it's been German CCC |
| 14:01.24 | nid0 | Key applications: Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Joikuspot Wi-Fi tethering, Accuweather, AP News, Swype, Track and Protect, Galaxy on Fire 2, Real Golf, Angry Birds Magic, Mail, video player, Drive, Feeds, search, calculator, Calendar, Contacts, music player, web browser, messaging, photos, photo editor, Ovi Store, Maps |
| 14:01.26 | DocScrutinizer | not mythbusters |
| 14:01.28 | nid0 | "track and protect" |
| 14:01.49 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, could have been both |
| 14:01.54 | jonwil | Mythbusters busted fingerprint readers in one episode |
| 14:01.55 | ruskie | MythBusters featured it |
| 14:02.00 | jonwil | Others may have busted it also |
| 14:02.02 | khertan | nid0: no NFS Shift ? there is a icon in the theme of this game |
| 14:02.06 | jonwil | but Mythbusters is where I saw it |
| 14:02.11 | DocScrutinizer | mythbusters are the modern 3 stooges |
| 14:02.17 | DocScrutinizer | they busted nothing really |
| 14:02.32 | DocScrutinizer | except the things they blasted away with nitro |
| 14:02.39 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@2.92.129.234) |
| 14:02.41 | khertan | didn't never heard of mythbuster |
| 14:02.59 | nid0 | khertan: no idea, thats just the key included software list on the nokia site |
| 14:03.16 | nid0 | that list doesnt seem to be all inclusive though, as it doesnt include foursquare either |
| 14:03.22 | nid0 | which is specifically mentioned at http://swipe.nokia.com/applications/ |
| 14:03.23 | DocScrutinizer | khertan: stuntman and SFX holiwood dudes that pretend to go science |
| 14:03.37 | jonwil | ok, its been good talking about security and N9 and Cell Broadcast SMS but I have a hunger only the Kernel can satisfy so its time to go out and get some food (the success of CBSMS means that I am in a good mood and feeling like junk to celebrate :) |
| 14:03.40 | nid0 | though it might just be some will be on ovi rather than preloaded |
| 14:03.43 | jonwil | cya later guys |
| 14:03.48 | nid0 | later |
| 14:04.12 | khertan | nid0: also :) |
| 14:04.24 | DocScrutinizer | sucess???? I obviously missed something |
| 14:04.37 | SpeedEvil | he's decoded a broadcast CBS |
| 14:04.44 | DocScrutinizer | hah |
| 14:04.57 | DocScrutinizer | I could do that probably, with wireshark |
| 14:05.01 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:05.04 | DocScrutinizer | hope he used sth better |
| 14:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | smarter |
| 14:05.55 | DocScrutinizer | alas it seems SMSCB is a strictly 2G thing |
| 14:06.01 | DocScrutinizer | never seen any on 3G |
| 14:06.15 | khertan | and it s |
| 14:06.21 | DocScrutinizer | so it's almost getting obsolete? |
| 14:06.22 | khertan | and it s usefull for what ? |
| 14:06.25 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@Maemo/community/contributor/Andy80) |
| 14:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | in Japan they send tsunami warning |
| 14:06.48 | javispedro | omg |
| 14:06.55 | DocScrutinizer | here you may get homezone notifications |
| 14:06.55 | khertan | hum ... so they can prepare cam ? |
| 14:07.07 | javispedro | do you realize this could mean than the lack of cbsms support in the n900 could have caused indirect tsunami deaths? |
| 14:07.24 | khertan | oh ... this thing that is implemented in all s40 nokia phone which was never working in France |
| 14:07.28 | DocScrutinizer | I'm aware of this |
| 14:07.48 | khertan | and for those not having phone ? |
| 14:07.59 | khertan | it s maybe not frequent in japan ... :) |
| 14:08.10 | DocScrutinizer | those will get a call from you on landline |
| 14:08.28 | DocScrutinizer | or you run over and shake them |
| 14:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | I give a sh** what it's used for, I'm only interested if it's supported or not |
| 14:10.34 | DocScrutinizer | my first mobile had no SMS support at all - "why do you need that? it's not even working as carriers don't support it here". One year later I was the only one who couldn't text for free |
| 14:10.44 | *** join/#maemo talmage (~quassel@www.onespeeddave.com) |
| 14:11.36 | DocScrutinizer | (yes, there's been a time where SMS were free, and only when carriers noticed users like it, they started to charge for it) |
| 14:11.46 | nid0 | I had a long conversation with a vodafone sales rep once who told me that "cameras are the new thing, but theyll never be available in phones you can get free on contract" |
| 14:12.44 | ruskie | heh |
| 14:12.53 | nid0 | 12 months later, practically every phone on my o2 contract renewal list had a camera |
| 14:12.56 | ruskie | frankly tha cameras in cell phones even the better ones aren't worth it |
| 14:12.58 | DocScrutinizer | the hackers here wil know where I come from, and why it's stupid to ignore technology on a "who's using it" rationale |
| 14:13.21 | *** join/#maemo mva (mva@pirate-party.ru) |
| 14:14.10 | nid0 | sadly though, all the mobile carriers here are largely doing that |
| 14:14.26 | ruskie | hmm is it just me or does qmfmail seem more useless than modest |
| 14:14.26 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: I dare to differ. I'd friggin useful |
| 14:14.37 | nid0 | the 4g spectrum sale that's coming soon is expected to do pretty badly, with the rationale being that people dont use 3g much so why bother with 4g |
| 14:14.52 | SpeedEvil | ruskie: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/ WFM |
| 14:15.00 | nid0 | and they dont get that they arent raking in cash from 3g because it's 1) overpriced 2) shitty coverage and 3) shitty speed |
| 14:15.23 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~kenneth@121.54.2.104) |
| 14:15.55 | ruskie | SpeedEvil, so noisy pic... |
| 14:16.26 | ruskie | http://codemages.net/20110617_001.jpg <-- frankly can't use this for anything much really |
| 14:16.58 | *** join/#maemo lescrooks (~lescrooks@rhelbox2.uio.no) |
| 14:17.07 | Hurrian | ruskie, is that from the n900? |
| 14:17.08 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, ? qmfmail? it didn't even load anything from my INBOX... I expect an IMAP client to get a listing quickly... |
| 14:17.11 | ruskie | Hurrian, yup |
| 14:17.13 | javispedro | meegotouch does too many things |
| 14:17.27 | Hurrian | the n900's camera is terrible in bad lighting conditions |
| 14:17.30 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:17.39 | ruskie | Hurrian, which 90% of the time there are |
| 14:17.47 | SpeedEvil | yep |
| 14:17.47 | Hurrian | heh |
| 14:17.52 | Hurrian | ^^^ |
| 14:18.01 | ruskie | even the pics SpeedEvil posted have noise in them |
| 14:18.02 | SpeedEvil | In mediochre light, the default camera app does not do well |
| 14:18.13 | SpeedEvil | ruskie: And yes, they do. |
| 14:18.34 | Hurrian | speedevil, so does blessn900. i always have to use fcamera to get the shots my N95 used to take |
| 14:18.45 | SpeedEvil | fcam++ |
| 14:19.31 | ruskie | frankly I'm looking for a decent always-in-pocket dedicated camera myself |
| 14:19.34 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: ?? I'm talking about camera |
| 14:19.35 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka_ (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com) |
| 14:19.44 | ruskie | ahh |
| 14:20.37 | hiemanshu | the only decent cameras are DSLRs |
| 14:20.43 | DocScrutinizer | *all* my pictures at shae.ovo.com are made by N900 (minus one) |
| 14:21.01 | joga | are there any (free) alternatives to sygic mobile maps if I'd like to have turn by turn car navigation for n900? |
| 14:21.07 | DocScrutinizer | I just don't *need* a decent cam |
| 14:21.19 | DocScrutinizer | I need a everywhere and always cam |
| 14:21.26 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: DSLR |
| 14:21.49 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:22.04 | ruskie | hiemanshu, not really |
| 14:22.09 | ruskie | there are good alternatives |
| 14:22.21 | hiemanshu | ruskie: hold on, I'll show you why |
| 14:22.30 | ruskie | fuji actually has good sensors that they stick in some of theirs |
| 14:22.41 | ruskie | they put big sensors in the compacts |
| 14:22.52 | DocScrutinizer | I basically don'T care even if the shots are uggly as my butt |
| 14:22.59 | ruskie | apparently has great low-light properties and low noise |
| 14:23.13 | DocScrutinizer | I need the documentation, not the art and beauty |
| 14:23.20 | ruskie | hiemanshu, also there's a new upstart that has some interesting tech |
| 14:23.30 | hiemanshu | ruskie: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27748502/IMG_4501.JPG |
| 14:23.33 | hiemanshu | thats an unedited pic |
| 14:23.47 | javispedro | aha, so orientation works very much like the pre |
| 14:23.53 | Hurrian | oh, which reminds me, let's put all that wasted space, i mean the back cover to use. optical zoom, anyone? |
| 14:24.34 | hiemanshu | most POS cameras I have used/have owned are shit, megapixel values barely matter |
| 14:24.41 | Hurrian | ^^^ |
| 14:24.58 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~Andrew@178.140.185.126) |
| 14:25.02 | javispedro | mikkov: did you build SDL statically on warmux? |
| 14:25.12 | ruskie | hiemanshu, MP above 8 is pointless |
| 14:25.16 | Hurrian | i have a 14.1 MPX sony cam, noisy as f*** |
| 14:25.32 | ruskie | the prob is that nobody bothers expanding the colour range and improve noise performance |
| 14:25.41 | ruskie | http://www.lytro.com/ <-- btw that startup |
| 14:25.42 | hiemanshu | ruskie: decent POS cameras are about $200-250, you could instead get a low end DSLR for about $350-400 which will perform much much better |
| 14:25.50 | ruskie | hiemanshu, I already have a DSLR |
| 14:25.58 | ruskie | I want something I can have in my pocket |
| 14:26.03 | ruskie | and I'm planing on spending 100-200 eur on it |
| 14:26.06 | hiemanshu | #justsaying |
| 14:26.18 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo) |
| 14:26.59 | hiemanshu | ruskie: for POS, canon, fuji, nikon |
| 14:27.07 | hiemanshu | err |
| 14:27.10 | hiemanshu | P&S |
| 14:27.12 | ruskie | hehe |
| 14:27.27 | ruskie | well fuji seems to be the best low-light peformer |
| 14:27.32 | ruskie | though lytro seems interesting as well |
| 14:27.37 | hiemanshu | my mind interperts P&S as POS :P |
| 14:28.04 | ruskie | frankly don't want anything from canikon |
| 14:28.08 | hiemanshu | the only reason there is a camera in my phone is that it comes with one |
| 14:28.37 | hiemanshu | ruskie: well canon and nikon are decent |
| 14:28.55 | hiemanshu | sony and olympus suck |
| 14:29.12 | ruskie | I'm quite happy with the pics my Oly produces |
| 14:29.41 | hiemanshu | I have an old oly too |
| 14:29.46 | hiemanshu | from the 1990s |
| 14:30.04 | ruskie | e-520 here |
| 14:30.06 | hiemanshu | works better than most cameras today |
| 14:31.17 | *** join/#maemo Damnshock (~quassel@98.39.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:31.21 | Damnshock | hello everybody |
| 14:31.33 | Damnshock | I'm trying to flash the vanilla image |
| 14:31.35 | Damnshock | without success |
| 14:31.44 | Damnshock | I previously installed meego on it |
| 14:32.13 | Hurrian | open kb, start flasher, hold U and connect |
| 14:32.23 | hiemanshu | Damnshock: first flash vanilla image, then eMMC and then again vanilla one |
| 14:32.26 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 14:32.27 | Damnshock | Hurrian: I'm trying to but it always boots meego |
| 14:32.39 | ruskie | hah I can get a samsung omnia 7 from my cellco for 140eur... they must be joking... |
| 14:33.20 | hiemanshu | ruskie: I have heard good things about the Canon PowerShot S95 |
| 14:34.01 | Hurrian | damnshock, flash the kernel then |
| 14:34.03 | ruskie | the only interest for canon I might have is for use with the custom firmware stuff |
| 14:34.12 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (~Atarii@77.107.156.213) |
| 14:34.24 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-174-42.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:34.29 | Damnshock | Hurrian: any link to where I can get? |
| 14:34.44 | ruskie | but frankly when I was comparing pics from various cams... each one tended to skew one colour or another |
| 14:34.48 | hiemanshu | Damnshock: need to flash the fiasco image first, then eMMC and then fiasco again |
| 14:35.05 | Damnshock | mmm hiemanshu I'll try that |
| 14:35.09 | DocScrutinizer | you all noticed the "user" manual for harmattan/N950? |
| 14:35.22 | hiemanshu | Damnshock: dont reboot until the last flash |
| 14:35.24 | DocScrutinizer | available since ~3h |
| 14:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | 15 psges pdf |
| 14:36.00 | DocScrutinizer | pages even |
| 14:36.17 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, nope? linky |
| 14:36.34 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@netacc-gpn-4-154-181.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 14:36.37 | DocScrutinizer | see wiki n950 -> FCC registration |
| 14:36.53 | Damnshock | hiemanshu: flashing right now:) |
| 14:36.56 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not posting a direct link here, for some reason |
| 14:36.59 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:8b2b:fac0:215:c5ff:fe7e:4a96) |
| 14:37.45 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@187.59.243.10) |
| 14:37.45 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@unaffiliated/licensed) |
| 14:38.08 | GeneralAntilles | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23272&postcount=203 |
| 14:38.09 | GeneralAntilles | Teehee |
| 14:38.24 | Damnshock | hiemanshu: it reboot by itself :S |
| 14:38.41 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, did you apply for a devkit? |
| 14:38.45 | hiemanshu | Damnshock: did you use the -R switch? |
| 14:38.48 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: yep |
| 14:38.58 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 14:38.59 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, out of interest, what project did you put? |
| 14:39.09 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: I want to see that for myself (the PC swearing ;) ) |
| 14:39.13 | Damnshock | hiemanshu: yes, I did :S |
| 14:39.28 | Damnshock | crap, should have done that hehe |
| 14:39.28 | DocScrutinizer | there are also butt ugly exterio photos and rather interesting (for me) internal photos now |
| 14:39.31 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: I've put some stuff about SDL games. |
| 14:39.37 | GeneralAntilles | community program? |
| 14:39.51 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: yep, no launchpad account. |
| 14:39.58 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@177.19.50.40) |
| 14:40.11 | hiemanshu | Damnshock: well just reflash the eMMC and fiasco now |
| 14:40.15 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to apply with theme hacking in mind. |
| 14:40.17 | javispedro | I'm actually very interested in deciphering how does rotation work and how we can make SDL games first class citizens. |
| 14:40.20 | Damnshock | hiemanshu: I'm going to :) |
| 14:40.31 | GeneralAntilles | Given what konttori has said about the themes. |
| 14:40.38 | DocScrutinizer | of course the internal photos aren't good enough to read a single chip print |
| 14:41.00 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: agreed, they look awfully complex. |
| 14:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | batery is BL-4D anyway |
| 14:41.26 | GeneralAntilles | ian_r may be applying under theme hacking. |
| 14:42.54 | *** join/#maemo jrayhawk (~jrayhawk@216.151.3.174) |
| 14:45.17 | *** join/#maemo Tsarpf (~Tsarpf@YGKCDXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:48.30 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 14:51.49 | Damnshock | hiemanshu: everything seems to have gone fine,booting the device right now. Thanks a lot for your help man!!! |
| 14:52.33 | DocScrutinizer | the USB receptacle looks terribly strange |
| 14:52.39 | hiemanshu | Damnshock: np |
| 14:53.06 | khertan | really hope to catch an n950 ... but have the feeling he will be disapointed ... |
| 14:53.37 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: SpeedEvil: jacekowski: you might be interested in the shots of N950 internal hw guts |
| 14:53.45 | SpeedEvil | where? |
| 14:53.48 | DocScrutinizer | FCC |
| 14:53.49 | dm8tbr | https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=339630&fcc_id=%27LJPRM-680%27 |
| 14:53.56 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I diddn't look through them in detail |
| 14:54.07 | dm8tbr | available since today in the morning |
| 14:54.31 | DocScrutinizer | not early in the morning though :-) |
| 14:54.39 | dm8tbr | ack :) |
| 14:54.51 | dm8tbr | the pictures are fairly low res though |
| 14:54.58 | DocScrutinizer | yep :-S |
| 14:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | no chip labels |
| 14:55.34 | DocScrutinizer | but they removel ALL the cans :-) |
| 14:55.35 | dm8tbr | let's hope some devices surface in the meego tampere community soon |
| 14:55.45 | dm8tbr | then we can have a happy picture session |
| 14:56.09 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 14:56.50 | DocScrutinizer | I hope to see one on my desk soon, though I'm undecided if I want to go N900-exploded again |
| 14:56.52 | javispedro | fragile hinge |
| 14:56.59 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 14:57.19 | DocScrutinizer | that's why it got rejected by carriers I heard |
| 14:57.29 | SpeedEvil | The hunge looks fragile |
| 14:57.33 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if it really is |
| 14:58.00 | DocScrutinizer | you bet you mustn't sit on THAT device |
| 14:58.19 | javispedro | stupid grainy photos |
| 14:58.21 | DocScrutinizer | N900 had chances to survive - this NOT |
| 14:59.18 | jonwil | They could have just used the same design as the N900 but with upgraded hardware and OS |
| 14:59.25 | jonwil | i.e. same sliding action |
| 14:59.50 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 15:00.03 | dm8tbr | it's fairly similar to the E7 mechanics |
| 15:00.03 | DocScrutinizer | now if only they had placed the file "schematics" there as well, by acciddent |
| 15:00.54 | DocScrutinizer | N97 as well? |
| 15:01.14 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 15:01.20 | DocScrutinizer | I like the fact it has a 42 key kbd |
| 15:01.31 | javispedro | nah, hinge on n97 looks bigger |
| 15:01.35 | DocScrutinizer | wouldn't want that to be 43 |
| 15:01.42 | dm8tbr | dunno would need to find an n97 to check :) |
| 15:01.59 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@g228058088.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:02.19 | DocScrutinizer | domesheet, just as somebody asked yesterday "click or soft?" |
| 15:03.53 | DocScrutinizer | is there any way or time when/how you can get those schematics from FCC? |
| 15:03.57 | khertan | ouch even the manual say hello developper |
| 15:04.06 | DocScrutinizer | yep! |
| 15:04.16 | DocScrutinizer | also watch the number of pages |
| 15:04.54 | DocScrutinizer | khertan: developer doesn't mean a thing though, just "no consumer helpdesk included" |
| 15:05.19 | Hurrian | lzop.c: undocumented option '--no-header'. just for testing. |
| 15:05.37 | DocScrutinizer | also doesn't have to adhere to mandatory stuff for consumer devices, like 911 et cetera |
| 15:06.04 | javispedro | ah, my carrier is going to love it. |
| 15:06.20 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 15:06.25 | javispedro | being ironic |
| 15:06.27 | javispedro | ;P |
| 15:06.29 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 15:06.29 | SpeedEvil | Oh - you can't easily register arbitrary phones? |
| 15:06.54 | javispedro | I can |
| 15:06.58 | *** join/#maemo npm (~npm@cpe-76-90-30-220.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 15:07.29 | khertan | DocScrutinizer : This device is not commercially available. is pretty clear :) |
| 15:07.49 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, so, microsim |
| 15:07.58 | khertan | yep microsim |
| 15:08.01 | GeneralAntilles | What is AT&T gonna say when (if) I take an N9 in there. |
| 15:08.05 | GeneralAntilles | Is the N950 microsim? |
| 15:08.11 | dm8tbr | thought the thing said explicitly NOT microsim |
| 15:08.12 | DocScrutinizer | you can get scary shit commercially, like chainsaws, even 750kV transformers |
| 15:08.25 | ruskie | or guns!!! |
| 15:08.38 | khertan | GeneralAntilles: nope |
| 15:08.42 | DocScrutinizer | developer doesn't mean it's not on sale. Just the shops are different ;-P |
| 15:08.46 | SpeedEvil | The n950 battery is replaceable - and it has a microSD? |
| 15:08.50 | SpeedEvil | Or no microSD |
| 15:08.56 | SpeedEvil | I need to go and look at those phoens |
| 15:08.57 | khertan | GeneralAntilles: Do not use a mini-UICC SIM card, also known as a micro-SIM card |
| 15:09.06 | khertan | it s pretty clear too :) |
| 15:09.07 | dm8tbr | SpeedEvil: if you pop off the back cover you can change the battery yes |
| 15:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: miniSIM |
| 15:09.37 | SpeedEvil | SD |
| 15:09.38 | SpeedEvil | not SIM |
| 15:09.43 | khertan | n950 The battery in the device is non-removable, |
| 15:09.49 | dm8tbr | I was told in theory you can replace the N9 battery too, but it's much harder to pry it open |
| 15:09.53 | DocScrutinizer | battery is BL-4D |
| 15:10.07 | DocScrutinizer | khertan: it is |
| 15:10.07 | dm8tbr | khertan: it sure is, saw it wednesday myself :) |
| 15:10.10 | DocScrutinizer | definitely |
| 15:10.35 | khertan | GeneralAntilles: no sd slot |
| 15:10.53 | SpeedEvil | I wondered yesterday if the N9 can have its SIM live-swapped |
| 15:10.55 | khertan | dm8tbr: so manual isn't uptodate :) |
| 15:10.56 | GeneralAntilles | I wonder if AT&T even needs to see tho phone. |
| 15:11.01 | ShadowJK | people cry and want battery hotswap, nokia makes coldswap impossible too. progress right there ;) |
| 15:11.15 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: both N9 ands N950 are microSIM |
| 15:11.22 | dm8tbr | khertan: user replaceable and 'you can still do it if you know how' are two different things... |
| 15:11.28 | khertan | DocScrutinizer it s not what manual say |
| 15:11.49 | khertan | dm8tbr: so it s not removable :) |
| 15:11.54 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, N950 manual seems to say not for N950. |
| 15:12.00 | dm8tbr | khertan: if you consider yourself a dumb user, yes |
| 15:12.02 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:12.15 | DocScrutinizer | mompls |
| 15:12.27 | khertan | dm8tbr: yeah but i mean ... use a second battery ... i ll not lost crew changing battery in the metro |
| 15:12.29 | khertan | or tubes |
| 15:12.30 | khertan | :) |
| 15:12.38 | khertan | must go on .... bye everyone |
| 15:12.41 | SpeedEvil | WAve. |
| 15:12.42 | dm8tbr | khertan: it works fine without the screws |
| 15:12.55 | dm8tbr | you still need to pry the plastic back off |
| 15:12.59 | *** part/#maemo khertan (~khertan@nax2.naxos-fr.net) |
| 15:13.34 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: I may be wrong, but it sure looked like a standard sim what I saw in the N9 |
| 15:13.40 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, the holder seems to be 'normal' SIM size |
| 15:14.14 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: that's weird as the N9 specs clearly say microSIM iirc |
| 15:14.23 | dm8tbr | also the n950 inside picture looks like 'nowadays' normal sim |
| 15:14.40 | dm8tbr | notice normal SIM is credit card size and a bit out of fashion :D |
| 15:14.52 | DocScrutinizer | 0Y161 holder looks like standard SIM anyway |
| 15:15.27 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: maybe I didn't look close enough. I'll have to check monday. |
| 15:15.37 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: not here, just grabbed a phone and "meh, not THIS one, the holder there is sure not right size" ;-P |
| 15:16.07 | dm8tbr | still owns a _working_ Siemens P1 ... |
| 15:16.14 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: internal shots p13 looks like standard sized SIM |
| 15:16.15 | dm8tbr | that takes 'normal' sims! :D |
| 15:16.45 | DocScrutinizer | supernormal |
| 15:16.45 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: ack, we'll need to check for the n9 too though |
| 15:17.50 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:18.32 | DocScrutinizer | neither 0Y161 nor OY161 gives me any hit for hw component :-S |
| 15:18.47 | GeneralAntilles | OYL61? |
| 15:19.35 | DocScrutinizer | neither |
| 15:20.58 | dm8tbr | btw: just noticed, on page 12 you can see the keyboard frame and it says N9 on it, lol, old casing |
| 15:21.29 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@2001:470:21:31::42dc:22) |
| 15:21.29 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 15:21.37 | dm8tbr | page 5 you can see it better |
| 15:23.28 | ShadowJK | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/wireless_disclosure_act/ <- americans call hspa 4g? Is that why every random idiot is asking about 4G support? |
| 15:23.39 | DocScrutinizer | this 0Y161 is *definitely* standard |
| 15:23.43 | DocScrutinizer | not micro |
| 15:23.56 | DocScrutinizer | I metered the dimensions |
| 15:23.59 | nid0 | ShadowJK: it varies from carrier to carrier |
| 15:24.09 | dm8tbr | ShadowJK: carrier marketing departments screwed this one up |
| 15:24.16 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 15:24.17 | nid0 | at&t or one of them has a "4g" service thats just non-crippled 3g, afaik |
| 15:24.34 | dm8tbr | ShadowJK: elreg ran a nice article that 4G is NOT what people claim :) |
| 15:24.49 | DocScrutinizer | N9 like there: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 |
| 15:24.51 | *** join/#maemo jimmy1980 (~jimmy@112.224.2.14) |
| 15:25.00 | DocScrutinizer | we know this device for quite some time now |
| 15:25.40 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: basically yes aiui |
| 15:25.41 | nid0 | odd that they totally threw the design out and went for a candybar instead, really |
| 15:25.51 | DocScrutinizer | hspa+ |
| 15:26.44 | ShadowJK | ah I forget there was hspa+ |
| 15:27.12 | dm8tbr | ShadowJK: http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/24/wtf_is_4g |
| 15:30.04 | DocScrutinizer | hehe, *subtle* diffs between http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277344 and FCC internal shots regarding PCB layout |
| 15:31.23 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: well one says 0724 the other 1122, go figure :) |
| 15:31.35 | DocScrutinizer | NB those engadget shots are 10 months old |
| 15:31.46 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: N950 has regular sim slot btw. |
| 15:31.46 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 15:31.58 | DocScrutinizer | we gathered as much :-) |
| 15:32.03 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless thanks |
| 15:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: any idea about if that might change for N9? |
| 15:33.17 | DocScrutinizer | not that it really matters, just out of curiosity |
| 15:33.28 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: No, don't know. |
| 15:33.48 | DocScrutinizer | what's your gut feeling? |
| 15:33.58 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: micro |
| 15:34.04 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 15:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | makes sense |
| 15:34.19 | DocScrutinizer | more "hype" |
| 15:34.32 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: I seem to recall reading or seeing it in one of the videos. |
| 15:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, me too that'S why I got taken by surprise to find mini on N950 |
| 15:35.35 | nid0 | it is also clearly listed on nokia's site as using micro :p |
| 15:35.47 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 15:35.48 | DocScrutinizer | that's what I meant |
| 15:36.11 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: what I'm wondering from this picture is. is the OMAP in the POP variety or is that RAM next to it. what's your take? |
| 15:36.30 | DocScrutinizer | nid0: otoh the N950-flasher_release_notes don't list SIM in the list of hw diffs to N9 |
| 15:36.52 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: mompls |
| 15:37.03 | nid0 | ima have to take a knife to my sim |
| 15:37.32 | dm8tbr | how likely is it that the SIM holder size changes between an proto and the release version of the n9? |
| 15:37.50 | dm8tbr | my guess would be unlikely, but that's just a guess |
| 15:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: I gues that huge critter next to SOC is companion chip. But that's really hard to tell |
| 15:39.10 | *** join/#maemo playya_ (~playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 15:39.20 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: companion chip as in PMIC, TI TWLxxxx? |
| 15:39.51 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: needs housing changes. Tooling is *expensive*. They won't do without massive need to |
| 15:40.01 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: yup |
| 15:40.11 | dm8tbr | k, tx |
| 15:40.14 | DocScrutinizer | just a really uneducated guess |
| 15:40.20 | dm8tbr | yeah |
| 15:40.32 | *** join/#maemo plautius (~plautius@p5486760B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:40.42 | DocScrutinizer | I think OMAP always comes POP |
| 15:40.45 | dm8tbr | well I can have a look out. after all the N9 density here in hervanta should be quite high ;) |
| 15:40.48 | DocScrutinizer | TI OMAP |
| 15:40.52 | plautius | why does this channel still have 300 lurkers? |
| 15:41.05 | nid0 | why not? |
| 15:41.14 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: IIRC you can get OMAP3 also in the non-pop variety, but TI doesn't recommend it |
| 15:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | would be silly anyway for that class of device, that formfactor |
| 15:41.50 | dm8tbr | plautius: nokia just released a new maemo device, why shouldn't it? |
| 15:42.26 | DocScrutinizer | plautius: plus there's ~1/2 a million happy N900 usres, maybe more |
| 15:42.28 | plautius | dm8tbr: i thought it was a meego device |
| 15:42.40 | dm8tbr | plautius: that's what marketing likes to call it... |
| 15:42.41 | plautius | DocScrutinizer: those numbers are real? that's great! |
| 15:42.51 | DocScrutinizer | so why does this chan ONLY have 365 users? |
| 15:43.15 | plautius | the only normal people i ever saw with n900s were in finland |
| 15:43.34 | dm8tbr | there are normal people in finland? *snicker* |
| 15:43.34 | obcecado_ | plz define normal people |
| 15:43.42 | plautius | i immediately asked them 'why did you buy that!' |
| 15:43.50 | plautius | he said 'it's the best from nokia' |
| 15:43.58 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B496F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:43.58 | plautius | he had no idea about linux |
| 15:44.11 | Choom | I have an n900 and do not live in finland |
| 15:44.11 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, the curse of maemo |
| 15:44.18 | nid0 | I know lots of people who have / have had n900's |
| 15:44.23 | dm8tbr | plautius: congratulations you found out the motivation of 99% of all buyers |
| 15:44.25 | Choom | the coworker sitting right beside me has an n900 and doesn't live in finland |
| 15:44.26 | nid0 | though admittedly theyre all ex symbian coders in cambridge |
| 15:44.36 | Choom | and I have another two friends with n900s who don't live in finland |
| 15:44.59 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 15:45.02 | DocScrutinizer | I know some that all are (ex-)Freerunner users |
| 15:45.04 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 15:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | and they all are damn aware about the OS |
| 15:45.44 | Choom | everyone I know bought it because it's a pocket linux bocks that also makes phone calls |
| 15:46.02 | Choom | box* |
| 15:46.03 | Choom | wow |
| 15:46.17 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~Chewtoy@c80-216-56-179.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:47.03 | Choom | another interesting thing |
| 15:47.13 | Choom | is that I'm seeing quite a lot of people excited about the N9 |
| 15:47.24 | Choom | even apple fanboys who haven't bought anything besides iphones for the last 4 years |
| 15:48.12 | plautius | Choom: i will never understand what motivates the booboisie to buy a phone |
| 15:48.26 | nid0 | even my girlfriend likes the idea of a black n9 |
| 15:48.40 | plautius | i like them too - they look super |
| 15:48.42 | nid0 | she mentioned it to an apple fanboy she works with though, and his reply was "pff, dead platform" |
| 15:49.06 | nid0 | sadly, that says it all unless nokia make a definite statement to the contrary before release |
| 15:49.08 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 15:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | too late |
| 15:49.49 | Choom | we don't know about their strategy yet |
| 15:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | trollop already confirmed THAT statement |
| 15:50.16 | Choom | assuming the rumors of an android N9 also making it to the market, they might be targeting different markets with different OSes |
| 15:50.25 | DocScrutinizer | oh really? I have not the slightest doubt about trollops strategy |
| 15:50.30 | Choom | windows for corporate environments, android for the average user, linux for the nerds |
| 15:50.47 | Choom | well |
| 15:50.49 | Choom | android is linux |
| 15:50.53 | Choom | but you get the point :P |
| 15:51.10 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: you're dreaming |
| 15:51.12 | *** join/#maemo tackat_ (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:51.20 | nid0 | DocScrutinizer: im not so sure. the full video of the presentation to staff when he showed em the wp7 device hinted several times that meego dev is continuing with more devices on the way |
| 15:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | ""trolop says >no more linux devices after N9, even when it sells like skunk<" |
| 15:53.18 | DocScrutinizer | newspaper of yesterday |
| 15:53.18 | nid0 | iv seen that quote thrown about, but whats the actual source |
| 15:53.26 | DocScrutinizer | interview with trolop |
| 15:53.32 | nid0 | it certainly wasnt said in the 20 min presentation he gave |
| 15:53.51 | Choom | no, he said no more meego devices |
| 15:54.00 | DocScrutinizer | ok |
| 15:54.08 | Choom | and then stated that tne N9 was not meego but a Qt implementation |
| 15:54.19 | DocScrutinizer | idi.... |
| 15:55.02 | DocScrutinizer | he's presenting a meego 1.2 harmattan device, and next day says "it's not meego" ??? |
| 15:55.12 | *** join/#maemo drussell (~dave@82.132.136.141) |
| 15:55.29 | nid0 | his video presentation also clearly has him saying that the ui concepts the n9 introduces are going to continue, qt is going to continue into the next billion "and elsewhere", and several references to the meego teams "continuing to do" great work etc etc, all in present tense |
| 15:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | err, I'd need to actually watch that - alas I got no bucket around |
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| 15:57.29 | Choom | there was also a possible leak yesterday with a phone very similar to the N9 and its windows counterpart running android |
| 15:57.45 | nid0 | even his first sentence of it gives a clue, talking about the meego team and the "quality of work that's being done", not been done |
| 15:58.06 | DocScrutinizer | I bet 98% of interested devels as well as users and other folks are rather convinced of "dead platform" |
| 15:58.08 | jonwil | me, all I care about is making my N900 the best it can possibly be :) |
| 15:58.10 | nid0 | if he was in the mindset that "there thats the n9 launched, now meego can fuck off", im sure some past tenses would be slipping out |
| 15:58.22 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Its alive! |
| 15:58.33 | Choom | which, along with the fact that elob doesn't want to call it a meego phone, leads me to believe that they intend to target different market segments |
| 15:58.44 | Choom | might be wishful thinking from me, but I like to believe it |
| 15:58.51 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 15:58.55 | lolcat | What does he want to call it? |
| 15:59.20 | nid0 | well, he calls it meego frequently |
| 15:59.28 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I'm all with you |
| 16:00.53 | ShadowJK | Choom, like samsung's bada? |
| 16:01.17 | DocScrutinizer | maybe he starts calling it "OUR meego" next week, as opposed to "intel's meego" ;-P |
| 16:01.34 | ShadowJK | did he say "intel's meegp"? |
| 16:01.38 | lolcat | heh |
| 16:01.44 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-174-42.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:02.07 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I dunno, I really can't watch such shit |
| 16:02.55 | nid0 | the first minute and a half of the video is the main bit |
| 16:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | too long for my stomach |
| 16:03.17 | nid0 | the next quarter of an hour is a finglish demonstration about how to view airline flight information on wp7. |
| 16:03.26 | jonwil | I am currently investigating making some improvements to the FindMine game, if I can figure out how to get libillumination0-dev installed into my Scratchbox install |
| 16:03.27 | plautius | come to ##antiwarradio |
| 16:03.28 | plautius | show is on now http://listen.kaosradioaustin.org/kaos-128 |
| 16:03.59 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: for winP7? ;-P |
| 16:04.12 | jonwil | For maemo :P |
| 16:05.17 | DocScrutinizer | plautius: now it's time to earn some bonus points before you got trolling/off-topic next time :-) |
| 16:05.46 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: He did that in several channels |
| 16:05.58 | plautius | there is no fixing the plautius |
| 16:06.09 | DocScrutinizer | you bet there is |
| 16:06.14 | jonwil | ok, good, FindMine is GPL |
| 16:06.22 | jonwil | so it should be no problems to make the changes I want to make |
| 16:06.24 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Lets nuture (fix) plautius |
| 16:06.33 | plautius | hey lolcat |
| 16:06.38 | lolcat | hello |
| 16:06.55 | *** join/#maemo tommis (~tommik@a91-153-171-147.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:06.57 | plautius | you keep that sphincter sewn shut |
| 16:06.58 | Choom | google translate text: Elopin that N9 is more Qt programming environment than MeeGo operating system utilizing the device. Qt programming environment allows applications to be programmed to operate three of Nokia's operating system, but not a Windows phone. |
| 16:07.20 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@178-190-113-240.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:07.38 | lolcat | Nokia has three oses? |
| 16:07.44 | nid0 | well, if that is a true theyre obviously just trying to spin it the other way round to android |
| 16:08.07 | DocScrutinizer | nah, but Qt runs on windows desktop afaik |
| 16:08.09 | nid0 | android is "our java overlay is linux really!!" and nokia's "our linux underlying os is a qt experience!" |
| 16:08.28 | Choom | lolcat: yes: symbian, maemo, and harmattan |
| 16:08.40 | lolcat | Meego is intel's |
| 16:08.46 | Choom | those are the current target platforms in the Qt SDK |
| 16:08.57 | lolcat | Also Maemo isn't an os, it is an distro |
| 16:09.06 | Choom | which is an OS |
| 16:09.26 | lolcat | Nokia doesn't own Linux (wich is an OS) |
| 16:09.36 | Choom | no, linux is just a kernel |
| 16:09.46 | lolcat | GNU/linux then |
| 16:09.57 | DocScrutinizer | pleeease gentelmen |
| 16:10.41 | *** join/#maemo plautius_ (~plautius@p54B29DDC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:10.51 | DocScrutinizer | when trolop says "Qt runs on 3 OS" he probably meant symbian, linux, and windows desktop |
| 16:10.54 | jonwil | ok, even better, the libillumination-dev package I need is in extras which means getting it for Scratchbox should be easy enough :) |
| 16:11.09 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: no, he has claimed that Qt will not be available on wp7 |
| 16:11.26 | Choom | there was an engadget article about it |
| 16:11.26 | DocScrutinizer | pff |
| 16:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | wP7 |
| 16:12.08 | DocScrutinizer | he said exactly same in same sentence, above |
| 16:12.11 | *** join/#maemo emma (~em@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 16:12.17 | lolcat | So we can write a something (app/program/application/whatever floats your boat) in qt and have it multi platform? |
| 16:12.25 | DocScrutinizer | >>but not a Windows phone.<< |
| 16:12.43 | lolcat | Symbian, Maemo, Meego and Android? |
| 16:12.54 | nid0 | isnt it more likely by the 3 os's he means s40, symbian, and maego? |
| 16:13.01 | jonwil | If I had a dollar for everything posted on Engadget that later turned out not to be true... |
| 16:13.09 | DocScrutinizer | maemo and meego are the same OS basically |
| 16:13.12 | lolcat | nid0: Maego? A mix of maemo/meego? |
| 16:13.21 | DocScrutinizer | maybe not for trollop |
| 16:13.25 | nid0 | lolcat: ie both being counted as one, as essentially they are |
| 16:13.33 | DocScrutinizer | but then he got his count incorrect |
| 16:13.36 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Maemo has apt-get! I like apt-get |
| 16:13.37 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ |
| 16:13.57 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: and I like russian vodka |
| 16:14.14 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: SO WHAT? |
| 16:14.39 | DocScrutinizer | even the URL says exactly what trollop said up there ^^^^ |
| 16:14.42 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: the UI frameworks are quite different, and they are presented as distinct target systems on Qt Creator |
| 16:14.57 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Can I get the N9, take its stuff out, stick it into the n900 case, replace the screen with the N9 screen, and then make meego maemo + meego updates? |
| 16:15.00 | DocScrutinizer | *yawn* |
| 16:15.03 | Choom | so I Would Guess that nokia considers hem different OSes (and so would I, considering that core frameworks change) |
| 16:15.31 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 16:15.34 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 16:15.41 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: you're boring me as you don't listen |
| 16:15.52 | Choom | I'm sleepy |
| 16:15.59 | Choom | sorry |
| 16:16.00 | lolcat | I want N9 hardware into my N900! |
| 16:16.02 | DocScrutinizer | Qt also is available on ubuntu, on debian, on fedorea... |
| 16:16.03 | Choom | reading back :P |
| 16:16.27 | DocScrutinizer | so how would trollop count exactly THREE os? |
| 16:16.29 | *** join/#maemo willer_ (~Willer@201-75-106-129-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 16:16.42 | Choom | sure, but none of those are Nokia OSes |
| 16:16.56 | DocScrutinizer | and once again, I said "afaik windows DESKTOP runs Qt" |
| 16:17.00 | nid0 | I dont get the problem. s40, symbian, and meego. |
| 16:17.05 | Choom | and I think we're nitpicking here |
| 16:17.10 | Choom | so I won't continue down this road |
| 16:17.22 | nid0 | maemo is either not counted or included under the meego count, because they dont develop it any more and havent done for quite a while |
| 16:17.24 | jonwil | hmm, someone suggested earlier that I ask on the osmocombb project channels about cell broadcast stuff but I dont know which channel would be most appropriate |
| 16:18.11 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, I'm either geting a heart attack, or fall asleep, when we continue discussing trollop shit on that level |
| 16:19.36 | DocScrutinizer | he trolls this chan even though he isn't here at all |
| 16:19.45 | lolcat | nid0: s40 is symbian |
| 16:19.52 | DocScrutinizer | yo |
| 16:19.57 | lolcat | Sure he isn't here? |
| 16:20.02 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~Chewtoy@c80-216-56-179.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:20.04 | DocScrutinizer | not really |
| 16:20.14 | ShadowJK | s40 is not symbian |
| 16:20.19 | ShadowJK | s60 is symbian |
| 16:20.32 | lolcat | Elop, you dirty fuck, reveal yourself! You broke my N9! Fuck you! |
| 16:21.11 | lolcat | Really? |
| 16:21.23 | DocScrutinizer | [Whois] elop ist ~elop@wsru.co.uk (elop) |
| 16:21.51 | ShadowJK | lolcat, really, s40 isn't symbian |
| 16:22.15 | ShadowJK | s30 and s40 are "Nokia OS" |
| 16:22.57 | ShadowJK | j2me devel api for third party apps |
| 16:23.48 | lolcat | hmm |
| 16:23.58 | lolcat | I'll never have on of those |
| 16:24.07 | lolcat | Maybe a cheap s40 for backup |
| 16:24.21 | ShadowJK | they're what the common man refers to as "dumbphone" and nokia calls featurephone |
| 16:24.27 | Sicelo | s30 doesnt 'exist' anymore, does it? |
| 16:24.32 | ShadowJK | dunno |
| 16:24.55 | DocScrutinizer | don't you think it's *way* more interesting and exciting to spot references to new unseen devices in meego repository, rather than decrypting trollop's way to count platforms that run Qt? |
| 16:25.01 | Sicelo | iirc it was only on 3510i |
| 16:25.24 | ShadowJK | What does 1100 and 1600 run? |
| 16:25.38 | nid0 | you can still get nokia 1100's |
| 16:27.29 | Sicelo | those don't do j2me :/ |
| 16:27.35 | Sicelo | maybe i'm OT |
| 16:28.29 | ShadowJK | yeah they dont |
| 16:28.34 | lolcat | Sicelo: Nobody was OT since febuary last year here |
| 16:28.35 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@94-226-50-246.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:28.46 | lardman | re |
| 16:29.35 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-058-093.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:29.36 | jonwil | I wish I had some more docs on how Cell Broadcast works or better yet some example packets beyond just the one I can get the local tower to send me |
| 16:29.37 | Sicelo | what happened February? :p |
| 16:29.41 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 16:29.50 | nid0 | meego got announced. |
| 16:29.59 | nid0 | and maemo was eol'd |
| 16:30.32 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: drive around a bit? |
| 16:30.53 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Or publish something that can snarf them if we install it |
| 16:31.20 | jonwil | well I posted on the mailing list with all the notes and stuff I had |
| 16:31.22 | jonwil | have |
| 16:31.29 | jonwil | including the test dumper I am using |
| 16:31.49 | jonwil | and the bytes I had to change in libsms to get things to work |
| 16:31.53 | SpeedEvil | I mwan in extras-devel or something |
| 16:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: \o/ |
| 16:32.56 | jonwil | \o/ what? |
| 16:33.06 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I suggested that one byte, some time ago. You recall that? :-) |
| 16:33.25 | jonwil | This is a change of 3 bytes |
| 16:33.29 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: nice you succeeded to receive a smscb |
| 16:33.42 | jonwil | based on what I see in the new Harmattan x86 libsms package |
| 16:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | ok, one opcode |
| 16:34.45 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: *that* is clearly a patch tha needs to go to cssu |
| 16:34.58 | jonwil | nope, its 2 opcodes actually |
| 16:35.00 | jonwil | :) |
| 16:35.04 | jonwil | 2 instructions :) |
| 16:35.07 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 16:35.30 | jonwil | is there an IRC channel or discussion forum/list for CSSU where the dev guys hang out? |
| 16:37.18 | jonwil | I just thought of another option, perhaps it would be possible to completly duplicate sms_gsm_cb_routing_ntf and then use LD_PRELOAD to make the dynamic linker use my new copy instead of the original. Although I have no idea how that works on ARM |
| 16:37.21 | lardman | jonwil: yep, #maemo-ssu |
| 16:37.38 | jonwil | or with ARM position-independent-code though |
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| 16:39.48 | jonwil | the advantage of LD_PRELOAD is that it doesn't require redistributing a nokia binary file |
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| 16:40.16 | lardman | jonwil: just read your post to the list, nice bit of binary patching work there :) |
| 16:41.24 | jonwil | believe it or not, I find reverse engineering fun :) |
| 16:41.31 | nicofs | Is there a way to create one's own easy debian image? |
| 16:41.35 | jonwil | and have been doing it for years |
| 16:41.48 | plautius_ | wow! very insteresting documents released from the arizona police department by lulzsec! |
| 16:41.49 | jonwil | mostly on PC games of all sorts |
| 16:42.01 | plautius_ | DocScrutinizer: have you seen them yet? |
| 16:42.20 | lardman | jonwil: same here :) |
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| 16:45.45 | lardman | heads for home, catch you guys over the weekend hopefully |
| 16:46.21 | jonwil | ok, a look at sms_gsm_cb_routing_ntf suggests that cloning it shouldn't be hard |
| 16:48.32 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: ld_preload would work for sure, but on cssu I guess we could even patch the original file |
| 16:48.58 | jonwil | LD_PRELOAD is cleaner though and wont require people to install CSSU just for CBSMS |
| 16:49.40 | DocScrutinizer | still needs cssu, as you need to patch the location where you have to insert LD_PRELOAD |
| 16:49.58 | DocScrutinizer | but I agree a clone is for sure the nicer method |
| 16:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | well, if we create a package that brute-force patches existing files, the we could get away with a package in extras repo ;-) |
| 16:53.23 | jonwil | a simple binary patch does seem the easiest, will discuss it in #maemo-ssu then |
| 16:53.38 | jonwil | who are the people that do the decision making regarding the CSSU? (if there are such people) |
| 16:54.38 | nicofs | Is there a way to create one's own easy debian image? Or some sort of how-to for creating a similar chroot environment? Any help is appreciated... |
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| 16:55.48 | jonwil | the other problem I just realized with a clone of that function is that it calls msgbuf_get_ptr, sb_length_get and sb_id_get from libisi.so (functions I dont really know how to properly use) |
| 16:56.16 | scoobertron | is anyone using mediabox? am I right in thinking it should work as a dlna control point? |
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| 18:09.48 | dragly | Anyone where who's got their hands on a N950? |
| 18:10.14 | dragly | I'm already having trouble flashing mine :( |
| 18:10.46 | pronto | if i ever own a bunch of land(like massive mounts of acres) im so going to put shit like this on it in random places, hopefully some of it is wooded area http://i.imgur.com/3Dhzj.jpg |
| 18:10.56 | pronto | wait |
| 18:11.00 | pronto | the n950 is out? |
| 18:11.08 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 18:11.23 | dragly | kinda. It's not for sale, but Nokia has started shipping it to developers. |
| 18:11.55 | ShadowJK | dragly, where do you live? |
| 18:12.01 | dragly | Worked very fine until I decided to "Clear device". Now it won't even boot. |
| 18:12.03 | dragly | Norway |
| 18:12.10 | ShadowJK | Ah ok |
| 18:12.39 | ShadowJK | calls his SWAT team: "The device is in Norway, I repeat, the device is in Norway." |
| 18:13.29 | dragly | Hehe. |
| 18:14.03 | dragly | Have you got any experience with the N900 flasher. Seems they are similar, so maybe I can issue some command line options that would help? |
| 18:14.36 | ShadowJK | Well with N900 the main challenge is getting the N900 into a state where it will accept flashing |
| 18:14.42 | Corsac | dragly: and you can't reflash it again? |
| 18:14.57 | Corsac | I mean, what does it say when you try? |
| 18:14.59 | ShadowJK | The easiest way is to remove the battery, connect the USB cable, start flasher, insert battery |
| 18:15.04 | dragly | I'm doing a reflash now. It's "erasing" as we speak. |
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| 18:15.26 | dragly | Hm... Guess I'll have to dig out some special screw drivers to lift the battery out in that case. |
| 18:16.42 | dragly | The flash log is here, if it is of any help: http://pastebin.com/Qa13VdbK |
| 18:16.57 | dragly | Seems to be some kind of strange security error. (Pentagon device?) |
| 18:17.47 | ShadowJK | Looks like it found the device ok |
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| 18:18.03 | dragly | Yes. And it erases everything with success too apparently. |
| 18:18.22 | *** join/#maemo Gorroth (~grimw@ool-457c30be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:18.26 | dragly | But as soon as it's supposed to load the images, it just fails with the errors you see in the log. |
| 18:18.55 | dragly | The erase takes about 15 minutes, so it's an awful lot of time to wait just to see it fail every time :( |
| 18:19.30 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 18:19.33 | Corsac | hmhm, thanks, ape-algo is indeed a tiny flashing environment then |
| 18:20.12 | dragly | seems so. The transfer before the erase is extremely quick. |
| 18:20.56 | Corsac | bb5_rdc_cert_read() are the function calls to the TEE which checks if you have a r&d cert on the device (which you have not, but I think it's normal) |
| 18:21.16 | Corsac | but the real problem seems to be that your apparently try to âdowngradeâ the firmware |
| 18:21.19 | dragly | ah, so that shouldn't be the problem? |
| 18:21.27 | Corsac | which is not allowed |
| 18:21.35 | dragly | I see. Why would they publish an older firmware version than they ship? |
| 18:21.45 | Corsac | no idea :/ |
| 18:21.53 | FIQ|n900 | quick question: has anyone got J2ME to run on N900? a friend ask |
| 18:22.00 | ruskie | there is some emulator |
| 18:22.03 | wmarone | heh |
| 18:22.12 | Corsac | Version of 'sw-release': DFL61_HARMATTAN_10.2011.24-7_PR_RM680 |
| 18:22.22 | Corsac | Image SW version DFL61_HARMATTAN_1.2011.22-6_PR_RM680 |
| 18:22.24 | wmarone | four twitter clients, none work |
| 18:22.32 | FIQ|n900 | i know J2SE works with iced tea |
| 18:22.33 | wmarone | casts voodoo upon them |
| 18:22.36 | FIQ|n900 | but J2ME? |
| 18:23.04 | dragly | Ah, thanks for pointing that out Corsac. |
| 18:23.07 | ruskie | FIQ|n900, as said there is something about j2me in the repos |
| 18:23.16 | ruskie | emolator iirc or something |
| 18:23.19 | ruskie | erm emulator |
| 18:23.21 | FIQ|n900 | let's check it out |
| 18:23.32 | dragly | I guess they might have done a mistake by uploading an old version or something then. |
| 18:23.56 | dragly | Why would it be risky to downgrade by the way? Isn't that quite normal? |
| 18:24.04 | Corsac | depends |
| 18:24.09 | Corsac | on a developer device it might be ok |
| 18:24.27 | Corsac | but downgrading on a production phone can be problematic |
| 18:24.28 | dragly | hoping for a command line option that says "--force-downgrade" |
| 18:24.52 | Corsac | if you find a flaw in a firmware version, then you hope people upgrade and you try to prevent reverting to the bad version |
| 18:25.09 | Corsac | so noone can exploit you by reverting to the vulnerable version |
| 18:25.21 | dragly | That makes sense. |
| 18:25.59 | dragly | Hmm... How can I obtain the new version then. Better go for a Google-hunt. I guess there are noone at work at Nokia until monday again. |
| 18:26.35 | *** join/#maemo Oppo|n900 (~user@c-5eeaaa15-74736162.cust.telenor.se) |
| 18:26.38 | Oppo|n900 | hi |
| 18:26.42 | dragly | Except it the U.S. maybe? But would anyone there have the newest firmware laying around on their desk? |
| 18:27.31 | Oppo|n900 | is there a java SE in the repositories for maemo? |
| 18:27.46 | dragly | Damn... I was so happy that the device came today. Guess I'll have to be patient for a couple more days. |
| 18:28.01 | Oppo|n900 | if so, what is it called? |
| 18:28.20 | Oppo|n900 | ME* |
| 18:28.20 | dragly | Where should I file a bug for this? I guess bugs.maemo.org isn't the right place anymore? |
| 18:28.37 | Sicelo | 0_0.. coincidence? ;/ |
| 18:29.00 | dragly | I'll try http://developer.nokia.com/bugs |
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| 18:30.49 | Corsac | dragly: when you got your n950 didn't you get an url or something to report issue? |
| 18:31.01 | Corsac | in the package itself or in the mail you might have received |
| 18:31.14 | FIQ|n900 | wat |
| 18:31.22 | FIQ|n900 | N950 already being produced? |
| 18:31.23 | dragly | Nope. Just the developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo page |
| 18:31.33 | dragly | FIQ|n900: It's already being shipped :) |
| 18:31.39 | dragly | But only to developers |
| 18:31.45 | Corsac | reporting on meego.com might not really be a good idea either |
| 18:31.48 | FIQ|n900 | yeah, i know |
| 18:32.07 | dragly | Seems http://developer.nokia.com/bugs has a Harmattan category. I'll try my luck there. |
| 18:32.20 | dragly | After all, I downloaded the flasher from developer.nokia.com as well. |
| 18:32.22 | FIQ|n900 | too bad there's only one device for us non-devs on meego in sight, and that one doesn't have a keyboard... |
| 18:32.40 | FIQ|n900 | I guess I'll stick to N900 a bit more |
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| 18:32.49 | FIQ|n900 | as it still works fine |
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| 18:33.17 | FIQ|n900 | keyboard as in, a hardware one |
| 18:33.24 | dragly | Strange thing that the date for the firmware version on my device is 24th of July by the way... :s |
| 18:33.38 | Sicelo | Oppo|n900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37799 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52898 |
| 18:35.37 | FIQ|n900 | wants a phone that works the way his computer do, more or less, i.e. real linux experience. N900 is the *only* options on the market currently with that |
| 18:35.47 | FIQ|n900 | option* |
| 18:36.21 | Corsac | dragly: it's not july 24th |
| 18:36.51 | Corsac | dragly: if the versionning scheme didn't change it's more like the 7th revision on week 24 |
| 18:36.59 | Corsac | so last week |
| 18:37.00 | dragly | oh, I see that it would make no sense now :-p |
| 18:37.16 | dragly | that would make the day a major version and the month a minor |
| 18:37.17 | Corsac | (well, week number is not really a good idea since not everyone has the same definition but eh :) |
| 18:37.28 | Corsac | I don't think there's day/month |
| 18:37.43 | dragly | hehe. Okay, but then I'm not so scared. I guess they have a newer version internally. |
| 18:38.04 | Corsac | yeah but not providing the installed version is a bad idea |
| 18:38.12 | Corsac | as you already found out :) |
| 18:38.43 | dragly | Yep. Which leaves me with a "bricked" device over the weekend. |
| 18:38.58 | Corsac | but at least you have a device |
| 18:38.59 | Corsac | ;p |
| 18:39.20 | Corsac | it'd be worth trying to fool the flasher though |
| 18:39.36 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@sign-4d091cc7.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:39.39 | dragly | Yeah, but how. |
| 18:39.40 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:39.47 | gri_ | dragly: Could you take a photo with the n950 and n900 side by side (even though it does not work)? :) I'm interested in the thickness-factor |
| 18:40.20 | dragly | Maybe I could open the bin in some Hex editing program and change the version number? :p |
| 18:40.22 | dragly | gri_: Of course. Hang on a minute ;) |
| 18:40.47 | Corsac | dragly: nah you don't need that |
| 18:40.54 | Corsac | well, I don't think so |
| 18:40.55 | Corsac | wait a sec |
| 18:42.03 | dragly | Corsac: Okay :) Thanks |
| 18:42.17 | Corsac | hmhm, well, yeah, maybe you have to |
| 18:42.17 | Corsac | :) |
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| 18:43.25 | dragly | Would that be dangerous in any way? |
| 18:43.33 | dragly | Could it get any worse? :p |
| 18:43.33 | Corsac | no idea :) |
| 18:44.30 | dragly | Don't know if I dare trying. But I'll try to open the bin file at least :p |
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| 18:45.27 | Corsac | no exactly sure how they are packed, you can extract them but I don't from where exactly the version number is checked |
| 18:45.33 | Corsac | and if there's a signature somewhere |
| 18:45.42 | Corsac | (I'd assume so) |
| 18:45.45 | FIQ|n900 | "ups, i bricked the developer phone a few hours after getting it" |
| 18:45.55 | dragly | FIQ|n900: That's me! :p |
| 18:46.18 | FIQ|n900 | wants a N950 too |
| 18:46.24 | Corsac | fun, the flasher.save doesn't have the --moslo arg |
| 18:46.55 | dragly | Corsac: What is the --moslo arg? |
| 18:46.59 | Corsac | no idea |
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| 18:48.53 | piggz | the problem with tmo is that it stops be getting any work done! |
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| 18:49.49 | ShadowJK | fennec on N900/MeegoCE seems much faster than on N900/Maemo5... |
| 18:50.21 | piggz | ShadowJK: yes, i got that impression too |
| 18:50.33 | Corsac | hmhm, iirc fiasco-gen has a way to sign images so you can unpack images but I'm not sure you could repack it correctly |
| 18:51.04 | Corsac | but it might be possible to extract the various images and flash them one by one, but as we don't really know how flasher works, it might be a bad idea |
| 18:52.34 | dragly | Corsac: I guess you're right. I really miss the --force option in the flasher :( |
| 18:52.45 | dragly | Can't seem to find anything similar yet. |
| 18:52.55 | FIQ|n900 | Hm, would it be possible to get uboot running w/o running stock kernel but powerkernel? |
| 18:52.57 | Corsac | not sure it's in the flasher |
| 18:53.11 | Corsac | it's more in the n950 itself |
| 18:53.18 | Corsac | well, in the ape-algo image |
| 18:53.30 | FIQ|n900 | as uboot in the repositories seems to conflict with powerkernel |
| 18:55.05 | dragly | FIQ|n900: I think I read about something like a uboot-power, but I won't say that for sure. |
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| 18:55.20 | FIQ|n900 | du kunde ha valt en bättre font ;) |
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| 18:55.28 | FIQ|n900 | er, wrong channel.. |
| 18:55.39 | FIQ|n900 | dragly, i'll look |
| 18:55.39 | dragly | Corsac: So no renaming would do then :( |
| 18:55.48 | dragly | FIQ|n900: Jeg synes fonten er fin jeg :) |
| 18:56.38 | FIQ|n900 | indeed uboot-power seems to be there |
| 18:57.44 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B496F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:59.06 | dragly | gri_: Transfering image to PC now ;) |
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| 19:03.59 | dragly | gri_: Here is the N900 and the N950 lined up next to eachother: http://dragly.org/?attachment_id=494 |
| 19:05.29 | gri_ | dragly: Thank you! Looks as thick as an Iphone but with keyboard :) |
| 19:05.49 | SpeedEvil | dragly: Ok to use that in wiki? |
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| 19:06.39 | Corsac | hmmh yeah, ape-algo is a linux kernel + a tiny script to run softupd |
| 19:06.45 | dragly | SpeedEvil: To use the web browser in wiki? |
| 19:06.51 | SpeedEvil | dragly: pic |
| 19:07.01 | dragly | Oh, of course. CC-BY-SA ;) |
| 19:07.23 | SpeedEvil | Trying to fix up the wiki a bit. |
| 19:08.10 | dragly | SpeedEvil: Cool :) |
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| 19:11.38 | dragly | Uhm... Was it stupid of me to post the full log online? I just saw that there is a Device Identifier in there :o |
| 19:11.57 | Corsac | yeah, might not have been the wisest thing |
| 19:12.10 | dragly | Doh... |
| 19:12.36 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:12.51 | dragly | But how can that possibly be misused? |
| 19:13.13 | Corsac | no idea but I usually prefer to be safe than sorry :) |
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| 19:15.47 | Shapeshifter | dragly: is it good? |
| 19:15.47 | dragly | I agree :) |
| 19:16.05 | dragly | Shapeshifter: Is what good? The N950? |
| 19:16.13 | Shapeshifter | yeah |
| 19:16.32 | dragly | I managed to temporarily brick it now, but until I did that it was a pleasure to use :) |
| 19:17.44 | Shapeshifter | dragly: how linuxy is it? I mean, does it feel like a proper linux or is it slightly out of shape like on the n900? |
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| 19:18.47 | dragly | I'm not really sure what you mean by that. It has a terminal like the N900, but the interface is of course like a smartphone. |
| 19:18.56 | dragly | It is pretty far from any desktop distro. |
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| 19:20.52 | gri_ | dragly: Did they send you one with norwegian keyboard layout? :D |
| 19:20.53 | Shapeshifter | dragly: does it ship with busybox? does it have man pages? |
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| 19:22.16 | dragly | gri_: Nope. It's the english keyboard version. Didn't notice that before just now :p |
| 19:22.55 | dragly | Shapeshifter: That I haven't had the chance to check. It's said that the N9 will have BusyBox, so I guess the N950 does too, but man pages I don't know if are installed. |
| 19:23.30 | Shapeshifter | dragly: mh, I'd also like to know about the partitioning, being one of the utterly broken things on the n900. |
| 19:23.43 | Shapeshifter | but oh well. we'll never see it in the stores anyway, so |
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| 19:25.09 | gri_ | RX71-47-2_QEMU_MR0:~# man |
| 19:25.09 | gri_ | -sh: man: not found |
| 19:26.11 | Shapeshifter | well I admit it makes sense to not include man pages on a device with limited space. a premade package would be nice though |
| 19:26.42 | Sicelo | Shapeshifter: iirc somewhere nokia mentioned that partitioning follows the FHS |
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| 19:54.33 | GAN900 | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/06/nokias-new-meego-based-n9-is-set-up-for-failure.ars |
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| 20:13.54 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, up for fixing the accelerometer driver? :) |
| 20:14.23 | DocScrutinizer | lol, ask me next week, I feel pissed by the N950 fighting and bitching |
| 20:14.30 | merlin1991 | MohammadAG: is the lockscreen still an overlay? |
| 20:14.50 | dragly | DocScrutinizer: Do you have an N950? |
| 20:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | nope, and I'll not get any |
| 20:15.17 | dragly | heh, ok :) |
| 20:16.33 | DocScrutinizer | not really sad about it, I'm happy with my N900. But I regret the hours invested for applying |
| 20:17.16 | dragly | Oh, so that's what you meant about fighting. I was thinking you was fighting with the device or something. |
| 20:17.26 | DocScrutinizer | almost a whole day, counting in the the really unpleasant experience at developers.nokia.com |
| 20:17.43 | MohammadAG | merlin1991, you shouldn't know that |
| 20:17.59 | merlin1991 | :D |
| 20:18.03 | merlin1991 | But is it? |
| 20:18.05 | dragly | You ended up not applying? Or you didn't have your application approved? |
| 20:18.46 | DocScrutinizer | I ended up getting advised to apply better |
| 20:19.07 | dragly | Ah, I see :( |
| 20:20.32 | MohammadAG | I applied, but for some reason I doubt I'm getting a device |
| 20:20.33 | gri_ | DocScrutinizer: You could also apply again at meego.com? |
| 20:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | I did, after wasting a day with dev.nokia.com |
| 20:21.22 | DocScrutinizer | and now learnt that's a beauty competition of project pages |
| 20:22.39 | DocScrutinizer | meh, nevermind. Konttori asked me to apply, it's up to him if I receive a device or not. I don't really care |
| 20:24.30 | DocScrutinizer | it's not like my daily presence here could get any increase, I'm for sure not designing a project page to make my later wasting time with helping out happen |
| 20:24.43 | DocScrutinizer | that'S why I suggested MohammadAG to ask next week |
| 20:25.17 | MohammadAG | I see |
| 20:28.34 | *** join/#maemo mikkov (~mikkov@a88-114-144-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:33.03 | MohammadAG | does anyone know how to read notifications? |
| 20:33.33 | lcuk | with your eyes. |
| 20:33.46 | lcuk | when they popup, look in their direction :P |
| 20:35.01 | hiemanshu | or record the screen at all times with another camera, so it can pause and read it if you are really slow |
| 20:36.28 | lcuk | hiemanshu, would you need to track the notifications on the second cameras' screen also? |
| 20:36.29 | wmarone | buncha comedians in here ;) |
| 20:37.11 | hiemanshu | lcuk: right so setup a circular recursive recording which ends up at the N900s camera |
| 20:38.01 | lcuk | with magnets? |
| 20:39.32 | hiemanshu | nope, tripods |
| 20:39.34 | hiemanshu | they are cheap |
| 20:40.37 | lcuk | MohammadAG, I hear you can use dbus |
| 20:40.46 | lcuk | is the other option |
| 20:41.26 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 20:43.03 | lcuk | wmarone, I was being technically correct |
| 20:45.56 | GeneralAntilles | The best kind of correct. |
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| 21:02.02 | merlin1991 | has fun with scratchbox again, yay for cheap us suppliers |
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| 21:15.48 | FIQ|n900 | dragly, do you have the device or just loan it? |
| 21:17.53 | FIQ|n900 | the N950 i mean |
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| 21:26.07 | messerting | My N900 clock is constantly 2 minutes off. I have set "update automatically" in the clock settings. From where does it sync? |
| 21:26.32 | *** join/#maemo GNUtoo (~GNUtoo@host190-137-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:26.48 | X-Fade | messerting: gsm network. |
| 21:26.49 | *** join/#maemo angelox (~angelo@201-95-110-244.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:27.11 | angelox | Hi all |
| 21:27.19 | *** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@46.184.134.103) |
| 21:27.38 | angelox | installed kernel-power by running "apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg" on console and now Camera,Bluetooth and Lock Button doesn't work ... |
| 21:27.41 | messerting | X-Fade: Ok, so I should blame my provider. Hm, well, or live with those 2 minutes off.. |
| 21:27.57 | X-Fade | messerting: Or just disable that. The clock is fairly stable. |
| 21:28.45 | smhar | will N9 allow the the use of multiple 'Desktops' like N900? |
| 21:28.58 | *** join/#maemo angelox|n900 (~Angelo@201-95-110-244.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:29.11 | X-Fade | smhar: There are no desktops as such. |
| 21:29.16 | X-Fade | smhar: no widgets |
| 21:29.55 | *** join/#maemo Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) |
| 21:29.59 | smhar | X-Fade, that sucks !!!!! why would they do that?!! |
| 21:30.06 | messerting | X-Fade: ah, good idea. But then I loose the automatic change when I travel abroad, right? |
| 21:30.36 | X-Fade | messerting: Yes, but you are aware of time changes then. |
| 21:30.45 | X-Fade | messerting: Or at least it is likely. |
| 21:30.52 | messerting | yep, true, I hope.. :) |
| 21:31.18 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: you also can go for ntpd |
| 21:31.29 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B496F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:31.36 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: yes - easy to setup? |
| 21:31.39 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: If you want to kill battery life :) |
| 21:31.40 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: just if you got frequent connectivity |
| 21:32.10 | angelox | some idea? |
| 21:32.25 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: yeah, I don't think ntpd is particularly suited for mobile with random connectivity |
| 21:32.27 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: pretty frequent, at least once a day. |
| 21:32.45 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: And it prevents the device from sleeping. |
| 21:33.02 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: you could used the ntpd parameter equivalent to the meanwhile binned ntpdate/ntptime |
| 21:33.19 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@66-90-160-127.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 21:33.19 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 21:33.36 | messerting | prevents from sleeping? err, doesn't sound good |
| 21:33.46 | DocScrutinizer | the best use it each time you set up connection, via a hook in ifup or sth |
| 21:34.11 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: yes, ntpd doesn't care about cpu and network usage |
| 21:34.17 | X-Fade | Or just set your time every time you travel. |
| 21:34.33 | X-Fade | 2 seconds work vs a lot more to set it up properly :) |
| 21:34.40 | messerting | Ok, will see how stable the local clock is, and try to remember to change time on travel |
| 21:34.42 | X-Fade | Fight the right battles. |
| 21:35.08 | messerting | thanks for the input. Will go back and read about the weird N9 news... |
| 21:35.19 | rm_you | weird n9 news? |
| 21:35.27 | rm_you | just got here |
| 21:35.27 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: but honestly, I think calling ntpd once every hour or twice a day, to adjust your sysclock and hw-clock is best and most simple |
| 21:35.50 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.208.136) |
| 21:36.06 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: agreed, will look into it. Is there a step-by-step wiki available..? |
| 21:36.24 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: you might want to have a look at alarmed app |
| 21:36.39 | DocScrutinizer | ideal for such cron-like scheduling |
| 21:37.19 | messerting | rm_you: yes, weird: "meego is dead, wp7 is the future, developer only n950 phone, oh, and a meego N9 (not really meego, but maemo 5)" |
| 21:37.33 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: ok, will do |
| 21:37.36 | rm_you | oh |
| 21:37.49 | rm_you | so, the original news from a few days ago. k :P |
| 21:37.53 | DocScrutinizer | ntpd -q |
| 21:37.56 | rm_you | was afraid i missed something crazt |
| 21:38.00 | DocScrutinizer | twice a day |
| 21:38.00 | rm_you | *crazy |
| 21:38.18 | messerting | rm_you: eh, yep, I should have said "old news" :) |
| 21:38.19 | DocScrutinizer | disable GSM sync, if your carrier is flaky |
| 21:38.27 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 21:38.36 | *** join/#maemo angelox|laptop (~angelox_1@201-95-110-244.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:38.46 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks :) |
| 21:40.11 | angelox|laptop | I'm back with the same question: I installed kernel-power by running "apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg" and now Camera,Bluetooth and lock button doesn't work...i installed kernel-power correctly ? |
| 21:40.13 | DocScrutinizer | don't miss on hwclock --systohc --noadjfile immediately after successfull invocation |
| 21:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: ^ |
| 21:41.06 | DocScrutinizer | actulally hwclock --systohc --noadjfile --utc afaik |
| 21:41.35 | DocScrutinizer | so: ntpd -q && hwclock --systohc --noadjfile --utc afaik |
| 21:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | might have "typos", so please check |
| 21:42.06 | merlin1991 | hm anybody else not able to run qt-creator under ubuntu lucid? |
| 21:42.12 | merlin1991 | (talking about the one from the repos) |
| 21:42.23 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks - is it "openntpd" package I need to install? |
| 21:42.36 | DocScrutinizer | I think yes |
| 21:43.22 | DocScrutinizer | make sure ntpd isn't linked in to system init when installing it, though |
| 21:44.05 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@2.92.129.234) |
| 21:45.32 | DocScrutinizer | you don't want to have ntpd running daemonized all the time, as X-Fade mentioned above |
| 21:46.13 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: may I as who's your GSM carrier? |
| 21:47.50 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@46.208.78.70) |
| 21:49.28 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: Norwegian carrier, I think it is Netcom (my subscription is to another company, using that network) |
| 21:50.28 | DocScrutinizer | that might explain it |
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| 21:51.33 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: Ok, so I installed openntpd and is started ntpd. Should I remove a symlink in /etc/init... or something, right? |
| 21:51.44 | DocScrutinizer | iirc the time message via GSM has a really weird format, and also some unexpected bits. And if you maybe are forwarded to another host or sth... dunno |
| 21:52.20 | DocScrutinizer | messerting: (init) yes |
| 21:52.29 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: the "ntpd" that comes with openntpd doesn't support the -q flag... |
| 21:52.40 | DocScrutinizer | ooops |
| 21:53.04 | DocScrutinizer | so maybe it still has ntpdate or ntptime or sth like that as separate command |
| 21:54.33 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: Hm, only ntp* command is ntpd (according to tab completion) |
| 21:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | from ntpd manpage: >> -q Exit the ntpd just after the first time the clock is set. This behavior mimics that of the ntpdate pro- gram, which is to be retired. The -g and -x options can be used with this option. |
| 21:56.03 | ShadowJK | openntpd is openbsd's replacement to "real" ntpd. It's far less advanced |
| 21:56.57 | DocScrutinizer | so why we got an openntpd pkg instead of the "real" good stuff |
| 21:56.57 | messerting | Well, I'm removing openntpd now. will rely on the internal clock. |
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| 22:02.52 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@46.208.78.70) |
| 22:03.11 | vi__ | s |
| 22:03.20 | vi__ | did you guys get that? |
| 22:04.03 | *** join/#maemo robink (~quassel@fatcat.creosotehill.org) |
| 22:04.03 | *** join/#maemo robink (~quassel@unaffilated/robink) |
| 22:04.06 | joga | the s? |
| 22:04.07 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer: did you get what i just wrote or did my damn connect crap out again? |
| 22:04.38 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-25 00:03:10] <vi__> s |
| 22:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-25 00:03:19] <vi__> did you guys get that? |
| 22:04.47 | DocScrutinizer | that's all |
| 22:05.01 | vi__ | damnit |
| 22:05.01 | vi__ | ok |
| 22:05.06 | NIN101 | I saw a discussion about this "asked for lock code after reflash thing" here recently and maybe this information could be useful somehow for somebody: I just flashed roofs and I was asked for it... |
| 22:05.06 | vi__ | here goes again |
| 22:05.34 | vi__ | MohammadAG: yo |
| 22:05.41 | vi__ | I saw your enhanced lock and almost backflipped with joy. You asked for 'suggestions'. If I may be so bold, I suggest a major enhancement would be an option of unlocking with double click of power button. |
| 22:05.55 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: it been enabled before you flashed? |
| 22:05.59 | NIN101 | yes |
| 22:05.59 | vi__ | i.e. double click already locks the screen. |
| 22:06.10 | vi__ | current I press power once while the screen is locked and it shows the 'lock' screen. |
| 22:06.11 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: thanks for reporting |
| 22:06.14 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.214) |
| 22:06.24 | vi__ | add an option that allows me to press power button once on lock screen to unlock. |
| 22:06.26 | *** join/#maemo vi___ (~user@46.208.78.70) |
| 22:06.55 | vi__ | tl;dr, map power button to 'unlock' phone on lock screen. |
| 22:07.11 | vi__ | thank you for your time and effort. |
| 22:07.16 | vi__ | I O U 1 BEER |
| 22:08.09 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG doesn't enjoy beer ;-) |
| 22:08.45 | vi__ | uh...milk? |
| 22:08.46 | MohammadAG | who said so? :P |
| 22:08.59 | MohammadAG | double press to unlock? completely doable |
| 22:09.08 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:09.28 | vi__ | MohammadAG: i know! |
| 22:09.29 | ShadowJK | is N9 using accelerometer or ts to do it? |
| 22:09.43 | ShadowJK | proximity for sure |
| 22:09.46 | *** join/#maemo Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) |
| 22:09.52 | DocScrutinizer | do what? |
| 22:09.56 | vi__ | that sucks |
| 22:10.00 | ShadowJK | double-tap unlock |
| 22:10.06 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 22:10.09 | vi__ | you have to keep ts on all the time |
| 22:10.37 | vi__ | what is the quiescent current of a crapacitiv ts? |
| 22:10.49 | DocScrutinizer | good question, sane concept uses lis302 as touchscreen probably has no doubleclick detect |
| 22:10.54 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178215139.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:11.19 | DocScrutinizer | if they have lis302 or similar |
| 22:11.34 | DocScrutinizer | plus correct hw IRQ line |
| 22:11.37 | ShadowJK | on the order of uA I'd think |
| 22:11.54 | DocScrutinizer | depends |
| 22:11.55 | ShadowJK | does N900 have irq line? |
| 22:11.55 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you're, as usual, being optimistic! |
| 22:11.56 | ShadowJK | physically |
| 22:12.02 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 22:12.11 | DocScrutinizer | even 2 ;-D |
| 22:12.13 | javispedro | "worse is good" |
| 22:12.57 | DocScrutinizer | btw N900 has r-ts which doesn't need any power on idle, and also creates irq - usually |
| 22:13.24 | DocScrutinizer | no doubleclick detect though |
| 22:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | so you always wake cpu when device is in your pocket while jogging |
| 22:13.55 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:14.14 | DocScrutinizer | that's why you completely lock the screen |
| 22:15.05 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, double tap afaik |
| 22:15.23 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, from description of N9, it seems it ignores double-tap if it's in pocket (proximity sensor?) |
| 22:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | possible |
| 22:15.53 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, got any pointers to the driver's name? |
| 22:16.06 | DocScrutinizer | which one? |
| 22:16.31 | DocScrutinizer | N9 touchscreen? |
| 22:16.49 | DocScrutinizer | might be interesting |
| 22:16.52 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:17.07 | DocScrutinizer | I've seen something, darn, I forgot |
| 22:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | somebody string'ed the image |
| 22:18.20 | vi__ | ok |
| 22:18.22 | vi__ | gtg |
| 22:18.23 | SpeedEvil | Interesting 'next sensor in phone' - that's being pushed - I have a sample of a 1.6mm*1.6mm I2C temperature sensor - $1.5@1K |
| 22:18.28 | SpeedEvil | Non-contact |
| 22:18.48 | ShadowJK | "next sensor"? |
| 22:18.59 | DocScrutinizer | non-contact means distance? |
| 22:19.03 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:19.04 | *** join/#maemo Gorroth (~grimw@ool-457c30be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:19.04 | SpeedEvil | IR |
| 22:19.11 | SpeedEvil | All in a nice easy to use package. |
| 22:19.17 | SpeedEvil | TI (which now seems down) |
| 22:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | cool, thermometer for detecting flu ;-P |
| 22:19.21 | SpeedEvil | I guess for face sensing |
| 22:19.53 | vi__ | MohammadAG: also some bro suggested the status bar could be visable in task manager screen. |
| 22:19.53 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: cool indeed |
| 22:19.59 | vi__ | food for thought |
| 22:20.00 | DocScrutinizer | seem that contactless swipe sensor? |
| 22:20.03 | vi__ | bb |
| 22:20.06 | vi__ | :q |
| 22:20.07 | javispedro | know your phone will report you to the WHO directly |
| 22:20.11 | javispedro | s/know/now |
| 22:20.14 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:20.22 | ShadowJK | has a "normal" non-IR i2c temp sensor with 0.0625C resolution that can tell the difference between human moving within 2m and human moving away from within 2m |
| 22:20.53 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:21.11 | ShadowJK | Atleast when the readings are interpreted by human staring at gnuplot :P |
| 22:21.20 | SpeedEvil | http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tmp006.html |
| 22:21.27 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 22:22.55 | DocScrutinizer | a touchless thermometer of sufficient precision could indeed become a nice gimmick |
| 22:23.23 | ShadowJK | I want one with <10 degree FOV |
| 22:23.48 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I want a hundred pixel one |
| 22:23.55 | ShadowJK | yeah or that |
| 22:24.06 | SpeedEvil | You can put a hole in front of it. |
| 22:24.07 | ShadowJK | But I decided that actual arrays are too expensive |
| 22:24.10 | SpeedEvil | Of course |
| 22:24.12 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 22:24.16 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:24.29 | ShadowJK | though I've seen a 6 pixel one that was kinda affordable |
| 22:24.30 | SpeedEvil | There are some awesome thermal cameras out there. |
| 22:24.43 | Shapeshifter | a 6 pixel what? |
| 22:25.24 | cehteh | http://urfin.soup.io/post/141032053/via-Geek-And-Poke-G |
| 22:25.27 | DocScrutinizer | ponders contraception app |
| 22:25.54 | ShadowJK | Shapeshifter, 6 pixel infrared temperature sensor |
| 22:26.43 | ShadowJK | basically 6 IR sensors in one package, with 90 deg vertical and something smaller than 90 deg field-of-view in the other direction |
| 22:27.17 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@178-190-11-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:27.28 | cehteh | .. and detecting the polarization of the IR ... |
| 22:27.32 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-161-160.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:27.39 | cehteh | dunno whats that good for, but someone will find out :P |
| 22:27.44 | ShadowJK | I've seen people mount them on servos to pan&scan, building up a crude image |
| 22:28.16 | Shapeshifter | ah |
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| 22:31.49 | DocScrutinizer | RING RIIINNGG... "Hello?" "Good morning, this is your contraception app, please keep the phone at your ear until the beep ends! Beeeeeeeeeeeep" |
| 22:33.27 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 22:34.00 | javispedro | it gives you brain cancer because it forces you to stare at the phone for years? |
| 22:35.15 | *** join/#maemo mrdongle (~mrdongle@p54B29DDC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:37.46 | smhar | can I use latest maemo in N810 device? |
| 22:37.54 | ShadowJK | Maemo5? no |
| 22:38.24 | MohammadAG | There was Mer, and then came MeeGo |
| 22:39.07 | DocScrutinizer | and meego's chances to ever get on N8x0 are... :-S |
| 22:39.18 | javispedro | oh, it's already there |
| 22:39.23 | DocScrutinizer | really? |
| 22:39.24 | javispedro | it of course depends on your definition of meego. |
| 22:39.26 | DocScrutinizer | oh |
| 22:39.36 | DocScrutinizer | hah |
| 22:41.24 | MohammadAG | Mer seemed like a better candidate for the N8x0 |
| 22:41.35 | ShadowJK | Would be probably more sensible to try do a meego core + xfce onto N8x0 |
| 22:41.40 | mrdongle | an updated n810 would be great |
| 22:41.44 | mrdongle | N910 |
| 22:41.50 | Atarii | woop, just bought an N900, any good starting points? |
| 22:42.02 | mrdongle | congrats Atarii |
| 22:42.09 | Atarii | thanks :) |
| 22:42.28 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:42.37 | mrdongle | for learning about the device ? |
| 22:43.17 | Atarii | yea, I had a 770 a while back, so just need a refresher really. internettablettalk still good? |
| 22:43.50 | javispedro | mostly |
| 22:43.50 | mrdongle | less good than in the 770 days |
| 22:43.59 | javispedro | touché =) |
| 22:44.26 | ds3 | anyone betting on how long the N9/N950 will remain on the market? |
| 22:44.33 | mrdongle | i remember people actually talking bout linuxy stuff on itt |
| 22:44.53 | Atarii | anyone used the modified injection enabled N900 drivers? |
| 22:44.58 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-161-160.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:46.54 | smhar | No one can ever predict Nokia. but from the little I know about N9/N950, they are definitely less good that N900 |
| 22:47.27 | cehteh | good is subjective .. they have few advantages (and also some disadvantages) |
| 22:48.23 | mrdongle | microsoft is a cancer |
| 22:48.35 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net) |
| 22:48.35 | cehteh | thinks 1GB ram is finally sufficient |
| 22:48.40 | *** join/#maemo Tsarpf (Tsarpf@GGYYYKMMMCCC.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:48.54 | javispedro | sufficient for yesterday's handheld! |
| 22:49.15 | cehteh | heh well you can max that out for sure |
| 22:49.33 | javispedro | I do have to admit that it looks like one of the largest values in a handheld |
| 22:49.34 | cehteh | but the 256MB on the n900 are maxed out when booted ... |
| 22:49.42 | derf | The N900 was certainly less good than the N810. |
| 22:49.44 | cehteh | i have constantly around 200MB in swap |
| 22:50.03 | javispedro | and that it's nice to see someone giving importance to RAM instead of more clock speed. |
| 22:50.04 | cehteh | so 1GB means no swapping and still some headroom for more demanding apps |
| 22:50.46 | javispedro | more interesting, large cache! |
| 22:50.51 | cehteh | yes |
| 22:51.15 | mrdongle | the cache size is larger than n900? |
| 22:51.16 | derf | I'm sure the memory bandwidth will still be terrible. |
| 22:51.34 | cehteh | derf: compared to flash bandwidth? :) |
| 22:51.46 | derf | Maybe not _that_ terrible. |
| 22:51.57 | javispedro | derf: it is the same |
| 22:52.31 | cehteh | i have no idea how much the memory bandwidth is .. but mmc/sd is terribly in sense of bandwidth and moreover latency/tps |
| 22:52.39 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:53.03 | cehteh | the n9 with certainly peform 3 times better with the same workload than the n900 |
| 22:53.13 | javispedro | ?? |
| 22:53.38 | javispedro | no way =) |
| 22:53.43 | SpeedEvil | But it's not got the same workload |
| 22:53.51 | cehteh | hey my n900 is constantly sapping |
| 22:53.54 | cehteh | swapping |
| 22:54.01 | ds3 | add more memory |
| 22:54.03 | ds3 | ;) |
| 22:54.09 | SpeedEvil | pondered that. |
| 22:54.16 | SpeedEvil | I can't find anyone who will ship the memory |
| 22:54.29 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: what size and how many do you need? |
| 22:54.32 | cehteh | hey and wait until people find out how to overclock it to 2GHZ :P |
| 22:54.48 | SpeedEvil | ds3: 168 ball for POP 512M |
| 22:55.10 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: for the OMAP3530 POP right? |
| 22:55.14 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:55.29 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: if I get the memory, can you do the bootloader work to support it? |
| 22:55.31 | cehteh | heh .. desoldering the omap isnt hard enough .. lets repackage it :) |
| 22:55.40 | Hurrian | which reminds me. where's the RAM on the N900?\ |
| 22:55.42 | ds3 | desoldering the OMAP is trivial |
| 22:55.47 | Hurrian | is it inside the SOC? |
| 22:55.53 | cehteh | Hurrian: yes |
| 22:55.53 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: No - it's soldered on the top |
| 22:55.54 | ds3 | Hurrian: it is on TOP of the SoC |
| 22:56.09 | cehteh | well that counts as yes, somewhat :) |
| 22:56.12 | Hurrian | the fffffffffffffff, nokia meant it literally? |
| 22:56.27 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: I should be able to get the memory, I just don't have time to do the SW work for it |
| 22:56.32 | Hurrian | "the system memory and onenand are ontop of the omap3 AP" |
| 22:56.44 | ds3 | Is the N900 OneNAND? |
| 22:56.50 | Hurrian | yes. |
| 22:57.01 | ds3 | Ohhh it is a samsung part |
| 22:57.03 | SpeedEvil | The easiest way to do it is probably to get a new SOC (a 720MHz one) , and in a nitrogen atmosphere reflow the POP RAM on top of it |
| 22:57.18 | SpeedEvil | then reflow this onto the board with hot air and plenty of preheat underneath |
| 22:57.27 | ds3 | I can get the part replaced... got one done as a test job already |
| 22:57.42 | cehteh | yes something i do daily in my kitchen :P |
| 22:57.44 | Hurrian | speedevil, in before loads of people order omap3530 samples ;) |
| 22:57.46 | SpeedEvil | I haven't investigated the bootloader hacking required to get it working. |
| 22:57.51 | ds3 | is the N900 using the secure feature of the 3430? |
| 22:57.54 | SpeedEvil | You can't sample it |
| 22:58.05 | Hurrian | speedevil, i got one from TI |
| 22:58.08 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: you need to get x-loader to properly configure the memory |
| 22:58.16 | SpeedEvil | ds3: Doesn't really matter - once you solder on your own 3530 - you pretty much own it. |
| 22:58.20 | ds3 | the ones I can get are plain NAND though so you'll need to redo a few drivers |
| 22:58.21 | SpeedEvil | And yes. |
| 22:58.32 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@187.59.243.10) |
| 22:58.33 | *** join/#maemo licensed (~licensed@unaffiliated/licensed) |
| 22:58.37 | SpeedEvil | Umm - plain NAND won't work so well. |
| 22:58.42 | SpeedEvil | Most software needs RAM. |
| 22:58.45 | Hurrian | ds3, there's a tiny ROM inside the OMAP3 that downloads code from USB interface |
| 22:58.56 | ds3 | no no...there are some minor funny business with the 3430 part that is disabled/unsupported on the 3530 part |
| 22:59.06 | ds3 | what's wrong with plain NAND? |
| 22:59.17 | SpeedEvil | ds3: The chip is ROM+RAM |
| 22:59.40 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (~Atarii@77.107.156.213) |
| 22:59.42 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: no no, you misunderstood - I mean I can get RAM + NAND. I was just told the current part is RAM + OneNAND (samsung) |
| 22:59.46 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 22:59.54 | ds3 | I can even get RAM only |
| 22:59.58 | Hurrian | oh, now i know what those pads on top of the 3530 are for |
| 22:59.58 | SpeedEvil | Alas - it's an idle rumination. |
| 23:00.07 | ds3 | but then you need to mod the board to boot off the eMMC |
| 23:00.22 | SpeedEvil | ds3: Even given the parts, and the tools, I'm unlikely to have the time to omplete it. |
| 23:00.26 | Hurrian | ds3, can be done in NOLO |
| 23:00.32 | SpeedEvil | (actually - I probably have the tools) |
| 23:00.35 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: ah :( oh well... |
| 23:00.41 | ds3 | I just did basically that on the BB |
| 23:00.43 | SpeedEvil | Though nitrogen reflow would be nice. |
| 23:00.54 | ds3 | Hurrian: but no sources for the NOLO...makes it harder |
| 23:01.01 | Hurrian | all we have to do is just feed NOLO a complete EMMC image and flash some other bootloader |
| 23:01.07 | SpeedEvil | ds3: Well - yes - and no. |
| 23:01.18 | Hurrian | exactly what does nolo do? |
| 23:01.30 | SpeedEvil | ds3: It's just a 'normal' bootloader then - no need to put nonlo bak on |
| 23:01.31 | Hurrian | run the kernel image and display splash? |
| 23:01.34 | ds3 | Hurrian: no, there are sysboot pins that may need to be reconfigured so the processor will pull the boot data off the eMMC instead of the NAND |
| 23:02.07 | Hurrian | ds3, ah, sorry, dont know much about ARM boot process |
| 23:02.09 | ds3 | is the eMMC on MMC1? |
| 23:02.18 | SpeedEvil | ds3: yes |
| 23:02.27 | ds3 | Nice |
| 23:02.29 | SpeedEvil | I don't recall which is which actually |
| 23:02.37 | Hurrian | speedevil, mmc1 should be right |
| 23:02.53 | Hurrian | maemo 5/nolo does something to change around the names |
| 23:02.54 | ds3 | Hmmm so Nokia put in extra parts for the uSD slot? |
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| 23:03.38 | *** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@46.184.134.103) |
| 23:03.47 | ds3 | MMC1 can operate natively on 3.x volt... MMC2/MMC3 are 1.8V only so they require extra parts for an external slot |
| 23:03.48 | Hurrian | ds3, yes, they just put in a uSD slot despite the N900 having a massive 32GB |
| 23:04.02 | SpeedEvil | mmcblk0 is emmc |
| 23:04.02 | SpeedEvil | But if that means it's mmc0 |
| 23:04.02 | SpeedEvil | BB=blackberry? |
| 23:04.02 | SpeedEvil | Oh - beagleboard |
| 23:04.15 | ds3 | BB == beagleboard |
| 23:04.27 | SpeedEvil | I don't recall any extra parts along the SD wiring other than ESD protection |
| 23:04.35 | SpeedEvil | There are _lots_ of ESD protection |
| 23:04.48 | Hurrian | ds3, think you can add another SD slot? |
| 23:04.53 | ds3 | I suspect they are using software trickery |
| 23:04.55 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.78.14.81) |
| 23:04.55 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 23:05.01 | ds3 | Hurrian: nope...that requires a new PCB |
| 23:05.06 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: Sure. Unsolder the EMMC |
| 23:05.11 | ds3 | memory is easy to do |
| 23:05.20 | SpeedEvil | And maybe a teeny amount of software tweaks |
| 23:05.34 | SpeedEvil | In principle you can just do a SDIO card expander |
| 23:05.46 | SpeedEvil | SDIO->7 microSD |
| 23:06.27 | ds3 | that should just work assuming there is enough power |
| 23:06.28 | *** join/#maemo angelox (~angelo@201-95-110-244.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:06.38 | angelox | Can someone help me? |
| 23:06.48 | SpeedEvil | angelox: Do you require CPR?. |
| 23:07.02 | angelox | sorry,cpr ? |
| 23:07.26 | SpeedEvil | It might be a good idea if you ask your question. |
| 23:07.39 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise it's kinda hard to tell. Sorry. |
| 23:07.56 | angelox | I installed kernel-power and my camera,bluetooth and lock button doesn't work correctly now |
| 23:08.57 | angelox | uname -r: 2.6.28.10-power47 |
| 23:09.26 | cehteh | thats strange, works for me |
| 23:09.34 | merlin1991 | starts to hate the twitter api |
| 23:09.50 | cehteh | installed anything else? .. rebooted? |
| 23:10.28 | angelox | installed with "apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg" nothing else..rebooted 4 times |
| 23:13.08 | angelox | remembering that my phone is flashed with rootfs and kernel from PR 1.3,nothing else... |
| 23:18.25 | angelox | sings "Help...i need somebody, Help...." |
| 23:20.18 | cehteh | hehe .. no idea |
| 23:20.33 | angelox | should i flash my phone with all parts(not only kernel and rootfs) ? |
| 23:20.48 | cehteh | well using apt-get directly can have some bad sideffects |
| 23:21.12 | cehteh | run a ham update and see if it fixes anything |
| 23:21.26 | cehteh | well and what exactly is wrong? |
| 23:21.51 | angelox | bluetooth gives me errors,camera too and lock button simply doesn't do anything |
| 23:21.58 | cehteh | what errors |
| 23:22.17 | cehteh | try to reinstall the kernel with HAM |
| 23:22.27 | cehteh | prolly some dependency/module not installed? no idea |
| 23:22.35 | angelox | fail in operation (translated from my language, don't know if that's correct) |
| 23:22.40 | cehteh | what tells dmesg? |
| 23:22.43 | angelox | ham? command not found |
| 23:23.01 | ds3 | beacon? |
| 23:23.01 | bindi | hildon application manager |
| 23:23.04 | cehteh | hildon application manager .. the slow gui thing |
| 23:23.27 | angelox | ahh ok,that i know :) |
| 23:23.35 | cehteh | at least once in a while and for critical updates you should use it |
| 23:23.56 | cehteh | it sprinkles some fairy dust over apt |
| 23:24.22 | angelox | just to say,i'm running a modified kernel,with kexecboot at the power up...i configured it to use that kernel when i boot maemo |
| 23:24.49 | cehteh | kexec? .. i didnt even known that thats supported on the device |
| 23:24.59 | cehteh | disable kexec, do a cold rebot |
| 23:25.37 | angelox | flashing original kernel works,but if i flash original kernel,and install kernel-power the problem is there too |
| 23:25.57 | angelox | kexec works in all of my friend's phones..only on my one no :( |
| 23:25.57 | cehteh | sure? |
| 23:26.08 | angelox | thinks that his n900 doesn't love his owner |
| 23:26.10 | cehteh | i never tried kexec |
| 23:26.34 | cehteh | disable it and see |
| 23:26.45 | angelox | disable = flash original kernel |
| 23:26.53 | cehteh | that may be well the cause, missing to initialize some hardware, keep some stale registers whatever |
| 23:27.01 | cehteh | no .. just no kexec |
| 23:27.13 | cehteh | i have power-47 too but no kexec |
| 23:27.24 | cehteh | i didnt even know its ported and in the repositories |
| 23:27.31 | angelox | apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher |
| 23:27.36 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (~Atarii@77.107.156.213) |
| 23:27.39 | angelox | i'll try it ok? |
| 23:27.47 | Hurrian | kexec would be in kexec-tools, and requires kernel-power |
| 23:27.57 | cehteh | disable kexec and do a cold reboot i saied .. is that so hard? |
| 23:28.01 | Hurrian | and angelox, the system is probably not seeing the gpio's |
| 23:28.25 | angelox | Hurrian,maybe,but my friends use the same zImage as mine and work for they |
| 23:28.28 | cehteh | cold reboot == remove battery |
| 23:28.31 | angelox | cehteh: Cold reboot? |
| 23:28.34 | angelox | ah ok |
| 23:28.41 | cehteh | (after turning it off) |
| 23:28.48 | cehteh | and no charger/usb connected |
| 23:29.02 | angelox | how to disable kexec,i only know do it doing "apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher" |
| 23:29.04 | GAN900 | Texrat, silly Astros and their lame timezone. |
| 23:29.17 | cehteh | how did you installed kexec? |
| 23:29.23 | cehteh | its for sure not default |
| 23:29.43 | angelox | cehteh: flashing a modified kernel,that haves it |
| 23:29.54 | angelox | btw,i'm not using kexec sorry,it's kexecboot |
| 23:30.04 | angelox | so it goes into kernel iirc |
| 23:30.22 | cehteh | eh? |
| 23:30.28 | cehteh | you know what kexec is? |
| 23:30.33 | angelox | yes |
| 23:30.55 | cehteh | well i cant even find kexec-tools in the repositories |
| 23:30.56 | angelox | but kexecboot is a bit different isn't? |
| 23:31.08 | angelox | because that's compiled by SHR group... |
| 23:31.22 | angelox | that isn't on the repositories |
| 23:31.23 | cehteh | i dont know it? |
| 23:31.31 | cehteh | wtf kernel do you use there |
| 23:31.46 | angelox | i can give you the link of that |
| 23:32.22 | angelox | btw,sorry for saying something wrong,i'm a lot confused with that too (newbie in bootloaders...) |
| 23:33.20 | angelox | so i asked,should i coldflash my N900 to do everything correctly now? |
| 23:35.18 | cehteh | there is a power-47 in some of the community repos (extras-devel? lemme check) |
| 23:35.52 | cehteh | if you install some non working kernel for somewhere else then dont be surprised ... even the normal power kernel comes with no warranty :P |
| 23:38.03 | angelox | you didn't understood |
| 23:38.20 | angelox | s/understood/understand/ |
| 23:38.43 | cehteh | well ... i dont care about your problems, i am running the power-47 kernel without problems |
| 23:38.58 | angelox | ok,so should i coldflash my phone? |
| 23:39.09 | angelox | and install power-47 kernel |
| 23:39.53 | cehteh | just deinstall the 3rd party kernel you currently have installed and go back to the stock nokia kernel |
| 23:40.00 | cehteh | and then check if anything works |
| 23:40.32 | angelox | everything will work |
| 23:40.39 | cehteh | ok |
| 23:40.51 | cehteh | so why do you need the power-47 kernel then? |
| 23:41.09 | cehteh | well and then from where did you get it? |
| 23:41.20 | angelox | to use kexec feature |
| 23:41.31 | angelox | i get it by that command i said |
| 23:41.32 | cehteh | m( |
| 23:41.41 | angelox | apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg |
| 23:41.42 | cehteh | for what do you need kexec? |
| 23:41.46 | cehteh | http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power |
| 23:42.18 | cehteh | meego? |
| 23:42.18 | angelox | i'm a embedded developer,and i help to develop SHR(or at least,i try) and i need 2 distributions on my phone |
| 23:42.54 | cehteh | ok |
| 23:43.11 | cehteh | well no idea why your phone doesnt work with the power kernel |
| 23:43.18 | angelox | see,i'm now with stock nokia kernel |
| 23:43.23 | cehteh | figure that out .. dmesg etc |
| 23:43.36 | angelox | can you give me the correct steps to install power kernel ? |
| 23:43.49 | angelox | i'll try again if you can help me |
| 23:43.50 | cehteh | use HAM |
| 23:44.03 | angelox | using extras-devel ? |
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| 23:44.35 | cehteh | extras-testing maybe i dont know which repo |
| 23:44.56 | cehteh | yes the page i pasted above tells -testing |
| 23:44.57 | cehteh | read it |
| 23:45.38 | cehteh | Have you problem with bluetooth on v47 and not on v46? See this: |
| 23:45.38 | cehteh | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=764 |
| 23:45.40 | *** join/#maemo Openfree^ (~Openfree`@114.86.74.29) |
| 23:46.21 | angelox | thank you,i installed with -devel so that could be the problem... |
| 23:46.38 | angelox | btw,invalid link |
| 23:46.55 | cehteh | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71879: |
| 23:47.02 | cehteh | well read yourself |
| 23:47.12 | cehteh | i am out |
| 23:47.31 | angelox | ok,thanks by all |
| 23:53.20 | javispedro | even the clock app reminds of the webos |
| 23:53.37 | javispedro | which I guess is nice, cause I was having impure thoughts about the webos UI... |
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