IRC log for #maemo on 20110623

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00:08.48Choomsince it doesn't come with a keyboard or FM transmitter I don't really care where it gets released
00:09.25Choomregion-specific hardware sucks
00:10.33ChoomI'm sure the swedes would be as eager to accept my money as anyone else would
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00:13.33MohammadAGChoom, don't spread things unless they're true
00:13.39MohammadAGit has an FMTX afaik
00:13.41MohammadAG<SpeedEvil> It'd be nice to be able to unbind some
00:13.50MohammadAGit's possible to disable the swipe
00:13.59MohammadAGwhich is nice, but worrying
00:14.42MohammadAGI'm guessing the screen wake up is through the accelerometer's tap feature?
00:20.02ChoomMohammadAG: well it was not (or at least I didn't notice it) in the specifications that I read yesterday
00:21.57Choomhttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/
00:22.07Choomdid I miss something there?
00:22.14SpeedEvilcapacitive screen
00:22.47SpeedEvilThough if the accel is similar to the one in the n900, it supports doubletap
00:22.53SpeedEvilIt can detect taps in hardware
00:24.56Choomdoesn't seem to have an FM receiver either
00:25.32SpeedEvilPity.
00:25.47SpeedEvilhttp://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab/specifications
00:26.10SpeedEvilOh - no FM.
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01:46.16pigeonanyone using extmou? somehow i don't get the cursor when i have a mouse connected
01:54.58pigeonah, /opt/usr/share/icons/default/cursors.extmou isn't there for some reasons
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02:10.52*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED, and keep clear of that shit! (we're fed up with 3 user requests / day)
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02:18.07xd13is it me or does the n9 not have 4g ?
02:19.07GeneralAntillesWho cares?
02:19.11GeneralAntillespentaband 3g
02:24.50xd13n950 better have 4g
02:25.02xd13i'm still on tmobiles unlimited plan :) i want to take advantage
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02:29.40kthomas_vhhhe
02:29.42kthomas_vh*heh
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02:32.11GeneralAntillesxd13, it wont. :)
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02:32.41xd13:(
02:33.41xd13i wonder y
02:34.13xd13i'm still going to get n950 when it hits, the speed though is somewhat of a big disappointment
02:35.18xd13a lot of my friends have androids and their speed is clearly killing my n900 right now
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02:37.33GeneralAntillesBecause it's mostly pointless.
02:37.36GeneralAntillesN950 isn't "hitting"
02:37.38GeneralAntillesIt's a devkit
02:37.41GeneralAntillesNot for sale.
02:37.48GeneralAntillesN9 is likely due around September.
02:38.21xd13huh? they r never going to sell n950 to users ?
02:40.01xd13i know they never announced the n950 but that does not mean they won't
02:41.58krayonxd13: From what I understand they only have the limited number they produced of them (in the hundreds?)
02:42.03krayonThat's what was said in here anyway :P
02:42.34krayonOne can only hope devs will get bored and sell them to little people like us.
02:45.03xd13i hope nokia changes their mind and sells the n950 to customers. Is this going to be the only meego phone ? is nokia going permanentley windows 8 after this ?
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02:55.58krayonxd13: The only way is if all of them weren't consumed by developers I guess, which is unlikely :/
02:56.14krayonxd13: I'd say Nokia are fairly commited to MS in the medium-term.
02:56.32krayonAnd with the ex-MS guy in charge, it'll probably stay that way :P
02:57.56xd13lol
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02:58.15xd13all i know is n9 is looking mighty attractive to me
02:58.31xd13plus having 64gb i can put all my music on there
03:00.18xd13what i can't seem to find a picture of is texting with the phone in landscape orientation texting window
03:01.28ds3is the type and size of screen on the N9 known?
03:02.23xd13ya
03:02.26xd13u can google that up
03:07.27GeneralAntillesxd13, you're way behind the times.
03:07.33GeneralAntilleshttp://swipe.nokia.com
03:07.37GeneralAntillesN950 has been announced
03:07.43GeneralAntillesas a limited-production developer kit
03:07.49GeneralAntillesN9 has also been announced.
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03:08.14GeneralAntillesds3, 3.9-inch OLED
03:08.18GeneralAntilles854x480 or so.
03:08.22xd13general have u seen any landscape mode pics ? because i can't find any
03:08.57GeneralAntillesThey don't seem to wan to show much landscape.
03:09.10GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.meego.com/Maliit
03:09.14GeneralAntillesIs what's being used.
03:09.17GeneralAntillesSo it may be something like that.
03:09.19GeneralAntillesACtually
03:09.22GeneralAntilleschecks UX guidelines
03:10.06GeneralAntilleshttp://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Text_Input.html
03:10.09GeneralAntillesNo landscape mention there.
03:10.36ds3GA: Hmmmmm wonder how well does the OLED perform outdoors
03:10.55ds3the N900 screen does okay in sunlight
03:11.25GeneralAntillesThe Nokians seem to think it does OK.
03:11.37GeneralAntillesWe discussed it with frals earlier and he said he hasn't had any problems.
03:11.41GeneralAntilles(in Finland)
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03:13.25xd13good thing is i have a few months to get some $ together
03:13.37ds3is this the dark period or the light period in fi?
03:13.44GeneralAntillesLight
03:13.46GeneralAntillesSummer
03:14.13ds3has anyone compared battery life?
03:15.22GeneralAntillesSupposedly much improved.
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03:15.37GeneralAntillesOMAP3630, plus bigger battery, plus OLED seems likely to help.
03:15.47krayonds3: Non-removable batter :(
03:15.51ds3same or better camera?
03:15.59ds3krayon: oh? :(
03:16.00krayons/batter/battery/
03:17.10ds3and the radio is still GSM with the TMO 3G band ?
03:18.41SpeedEvilThe battery is supposed to be moderately easily replacable.
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03:19.11xd13ya i didn't understand y either
03:19.20xd13all the new phones r 4g
03:20.36GeneralAntillesMuch better camera.
03:20.43GeneralAntillesSupposedly the fastest camera out there.
03:20.53GeneralAntillesUnder 3 seconds from activation to first shot.
03:21.03GeneralAntillesds3, pentaband 3g
03:21.10SpeedEvilsighs.
03:21.20SpeedEvilThere isn't a good reason why the n900 can't do that.
03:21.28SpeedEvil(the cam anyway)
03:21.29ds3Hmmmm looks tolerable
03:21.45ds3but it is capacitive right?
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03:22.36krayonds3: :( probably.
03:22.56GeneralAntillesYes
03:23.03ds3always 1 drawback in each new model!
03:23.04GeneralAntillesEvidently a pretty good quality one, though.
03:23.14GeneralAntillesds3, one step forward, two steps back.
03:23.30ds3well, I have yet to see a cap touch that I can use to sign a PDF file
03:23.31GeneralAntillesWhen they do the initial planning meetings they figure out which features they're going to change or remove to make it shittier.
03:23.34GeneralAntillesHehe
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03:23.57ds3give me the N800 size display with sunlight readability and the same number of buttons
03:24.17SpeedEvilponders selling modded n900s with other screens.
03:24.34ds3you got a source for screens that fit the N900 case?
03:24.37SpeedEvilIt'd be lovely to be able to buy the boards.
03:24.39SpeedEvilds3: no
03:24.42ds3oh :P
03:25.03SpeedEvilYou almost can't do a bigger screen in the existing case.
03:25.17SpeedEvilIt'd need to be a custom one.
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03:25.45ds3even if I do a custom case, I don't think they expose the signals for a lot of LCDs
03:25.56ds3btw, is the N9 going to add a compass?
03:26.05SpeedEvilyes
03:26.24SpeedEvilds3: they don't - you'd need to find a compatible LCD - which is not completely impossible
03:26.43ds3that might be enough reason to get it; assuming Meego isn't completely f'ed
03:27.09SpeedEvilfound a magnetometer which may make it possible to make a compass microSD
03:27.12ds3SpeedEvil: aren't they DSI screens?
03:27.18SpeedEvil?
03:27.35ds3the LCDs on there are not parallel (DPI) but serial, right?
03:27.47SpeedEvilEssentially most modern LCDs are.
03:28.02ds3no
03:28.09ds3LVDS is not DSI
03:29.15SpeedEvilDSI is sort of LVDS
03:29.47ds3except DSI is direct from the OMAP whereas LVDS requires a transmitter, AFAIK
03:29.51SpeedEvilthere are some screens out there.
03:30.42SpeedEvilLVDS is a low-level standard. There are screens - most screens nowadays - that connect over it in a standardish way - this is called LVDS - it's really not.
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03:31.06DocScrutinizer~moo
03:31.06infobotACTION mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass
03:31.19SpeedEvilIt's LVDS in the same way that it's correct to call a container of milk a gallon jug.
03:31.30SpeedEvilWithout specifying that it's milk in it.
03:32.25SpeedEvilPCIe is LVDS too
03:32.33SpeedEvil(maybe)
03:32.56DocScrutinizeror calling those testpads RS232
03:33.14SpeedEvilOr calling posters on TMO retards.
03:33.15DocScrutinizerwhile they are often 1.8V
03:35.03GeneralAntillesBleh
03:35.18GeneralAntillesThey still don't have a complete English translation for N900CE
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03:42.30DocScrutinizerI guess they stil have that tana_fi_foobar abomination
03:43.09DocScrutinizerI.E. no proper compiled-in textstrings for LANG=C
03:44.25DocScrutinizerthe rationale for which is really unheard: The *translators* don't manage to get their texts right otherwise
03:45.44SpeedEvilumm - what has locale got to do with translators?
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03:48.50DocScrutinizerI heard of several ways to deal with the problem: prefixes like in "[E:4154] File not found" is one, Qt-linquist has the concept of context qualifiers and even comments in source. But never I seen something as awkward as "Homescreen" -> "tana_fi_thumb_home_btn"
03:54.10DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I guess the translators don't have the software to test their translations live, but only screenshots at best. Now if there are several "file not found" msgs that maybe need different translations depending on application context ("can not read config" vs "Project file not found"), then obviously the only solution they could come up with is to have unique crappy strings like "tana_fi_thumb_home_btn" in source/program, so the
03:54.11DocScrutinizerscreenshots have unique references to which text tupel is the one the translator needs to edit for this one
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03:56.36DocScrutinizeras mentioned above even a dead simple "Home [9634]" would be better than that, as it doesn't kill users that have no proper locale (set)
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03:58.49DocScrutinizerthen add //%translatorhint% [9634] button, small, english text "home", fontsize foo, semantics blah
03:58.55DocScrutinizerto source
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03:59.50DocScrutinizergrep '%translatorhint%'|sort>translators_auxiliary_docs.txt
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04:01.15DocScrutinizeror simply look how it's done in qt-linguist, isn't Qt a Nokia thing anyway in the end?
04:04.08DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: though I just start to wonder what it's been you're telling us. N900CE sounds like meego-arm(proper)
04:04.21GeneralAntillesHmm?
04:04.50DocScrutinizerwhich language do they use other than plain english? I can't imagine meego adopted that idiocy with tana_fi_*
04:05.08GeneralAntillesDoesn't claim to have anything but en_GB installed.
04:06.11DocScrutinizer([2011-06-23 05:35:18] <GeneralAntilles> They still don't have a complete English translation for N900CE)  please elaborate - and bear with me, coffee still about to take effect :-)
04:07.17DocScrutinizerwhat else do they have then, when no proper english "translation"?
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04:10.55DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: was your comment just about en_GB vs en_EN (or whatever)?
04:11.26GeneralAntillesJust the lack of complete strings for N900 CE
04:11.35DocScrutinizerexample?
04:11.36GeneralAntillesSeems like that would be something relatively easy to fix.
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04:14.12DocScrutinizerstarts to wonder if the ""problems with CE cert"" that kontorri(?) said was responsible for N950 sales blocker actually meant "problems with Consumer Edition firmware QA and finalizing"
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04:47.03kirmareads about harmattan device security policy. wondering if "The device owners define the device policy based on their needs and goals" means that on unlocked, non-developer mode devices, users can really install software sources easily, with credentials for *any* resource any practical application or service could need
04:47.47kirmaas far as those don't put MSSF or hardware itself at risk
04:48.24kirmabecause if that's not possible, it's that S60/MIDP application signing hell once again...
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04:49.17kirmaif user decides to trust ACME Inc as software source, he should be allowed to do so
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04:57.36DocScrutinizerkirma: seems harmattan security framework has purged DRM part, so possibly the hell is some steps ahead yet
04:58.08DocScrutinizernevertheless in visinity
04:58.21DocScrutinizer~spell visinity
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05:00.57kirmaDRM doesn't really bother me. content by *other* software vendors may be encrypted or limited in access in a way that my software can't access it. I'm just considered of the possibility that I couldn't set up my own software shop that could for instance implement some of the plugins without expensive application certifications...
05:01.52kirmajust if user decides to trust my software source, I could do basically everything else except compromise MSSF itself, or, for instance, blow up the battery
05:02.32kirmaalso wondering what would be the best channel to ask this kind of questions regarding meego/harmattan
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05:09.47DocScrutinizerkirma: the problem with DRM is you must make sure no ripper or other rogue sw is running in parallel to your e.g. mediaplayer
05:10.13DocScrutinizerso DRM is exactly what hits you as a small shopee selling your own sw
05:11.57DocScrutinizereither you get Nokia to sign your sw after QA and security evaluation, or it mustn't run in parallel to DRM protected sw on same system, concurrently
05:12.54DocScrutinizerthere's no option for user to override this principle, as it's exactly the user that is considered rogue and has to get gontrolled by industry
05:13.07DocScrutinizers/contr/contr/
05:13.14DocScrutinizers/gontr/contr/
05:14.43DocScrutinizerbut, as mentioned above (thanks to Corsac for pointing me at the relevant email), it seems harmattan hasn't implemented DRM (yet?)
05:17.01DocScrutinizerso for the rest of aegis benefits (should I say "benefits"?) you might actually be allowed to have full user control over all such things like integrity check, resource allocation and granting, crypted data storage, etc pp
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05:18.08DocScrutinizerand yes, this might include sw-tokes for licence management of apps as well
05:18.08kirmawell, I'm not interested in rippers. I might be interested on call recorders, or implementing various plugins for which API is provided, or, of course, applications that access for instance address book and location data
05:18.37DocScrutinizerkirma: it's irrelevant in what you're interested
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05:19.09DocScrutinizeras the devels of acme-mediaplayer don't know for sure if your app is rogue or not
05:20.04kirmaI'm not exactly certain if we are talking of the same thing
05:20.31DocScrutinizerthat's what QA and cert at Nokia/$random-appstore is meant for - they guarantee that all signed apps are behaving, in sense of DRM
05:21.06DocScrutinizerkirma: believe me, we are talking about same thing
05:21.50kirmabut what I'd want to see is concrete description of harmattan security policy in practice - what kind of software sources developers can create without certification by someone related to nokia, and what credentials such sources may grant (or, put the other way, which they *can't* grant)
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05:23.23DocScrutinizeras mentioend above, since the critical DRM part got dropped, it seems user has full control over that, so basically there should be no limit there about what can or can not be granted
05:23.27DocScrutinizeror defined
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05:24.24robbiethe1stHm... I always like to see DRM dropped, but in what?
05:24.41DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: aegis, harmattan
05:24.50robbiethe1stOh, good
05:24.51kirmaOTOH, it's only good in my opinion for device security that files can be kept visible only to their owning applications and encrypted with proper chain of trust if wanted so
05:25.15DocScrutinizerkirma: sure
05:25.37kirmaand that access to various resources can be strongly enforced... as long as developers accessing non-critical features don't require going through certification hell
05:25.47ruskiebut that can be done differently anyway
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05:26.21DocScrutinizerthee are some concerns about this as well, regarding privacy, remote control over your property (data getting invalidated via online cert, see windows genuine) etc
05:26.53DocScrutinizerbut those concerns are minor, compared to big toad DRM
05:27.30kirmaI got the idea that MSSF principles were based on reasonably consumer-friendly basis originally, but are the actual shipping devices also hacker-developer-deployment friendly
05:27.32robbiethe1stIsn't that sort of what the whole group/user model with Linux is supposed to do?
05:28.00kirmabecause one thing that surely killed deployment of many MIDP and S60v3 applications were the capability limitations and the bureaucratic processes involved
05:28.08robbiethe1stRoot can access everything; setup a user with specific access to certain files; any other user without permission can't access files that aren't chmodded the right way...
05:28.35DocScrutinizerkirma: regarding cet hell for critical resources: I think each user is devel and each devel is user. Means there can't get any sane scheme installed that would e.g. forbid access to voltage regulators for apps without cert
05:29.01DocScrutinizerwell, maybe there is, first instance. Though users can circumvent it if they like
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05:29.54DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: basically yes
05:30.02kirmawell, developers can put their *own* devices to developer mode... but, it should be possible to deploy applications that don't try excess things such as blow up the battery also on normal-mode devices (I hope!), without cert hell
05:30.09DocScrutinizeraegis is basically useless without DRM
05:30.33kirmaalso, deploying such applications without IMEI bindings...
05:30.43DocScrutinizeras all the other parts could have been implemented using existing methods
05:31.46RST38hAegis is useful to tell people who absolutely want it that it is there
05:31.54robbiethe1stWell, kirma, that's what repos are for, like on the N900.
05:32.01RST38hDoes not even have to do anything useful, just be there
05:32.17robbiethe1stYou have extras for tested apps; and extras-testing / devel for potentially dangerous stuff
05:32.32DocScrutinizerkirma: I don't think there's such thing like "developer mode"
05:32.47DocScrutinizerexcept for the DRM related "open" mode
05:33.16kirmahttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/images/thumb/2/21/SecurityBoot.PNG/500px-SecurityBoot.PNG
05:33.53kirmaat http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/index.php?title=Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Harmattan_platform_and_Platform_SDK_overview/Security_domain_overview
05:35.56pabs3ugh sim lock
05:35.59DocScrutinizer>>Additionally, some Harmattan device distribution channels may require installation or blocking of certain applications or services without a possibility for users or applications to change these settings. ...<< that's DRM basically
05:36.34DocScrutinizerpabs3: that part is mere BS as SIMlock is handled inside modem, and user has no access to this domain whatsoever
05:37.23kirmawell, nicely enough, our friend elop has now explicitly stated that n9 will be the last and only meego phone. great marketing, but his intents are pretty clear.
05:37.38pabs3kirma: got link?
05:37.40DocScrutinizerSUCKER
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05:38.39ruskiekirma, where?
05:38.43ruskiehmm stskeeps left
05:39.19DocScrutinizer>>Services, such as mobile payments and copyright protection, require a strong security support from the operating system. The security of these services is essential to their usage, which is why such enablers should be provided by MSSF<< also DRM
05:40.03kirmapaper version of helsingin sanomat, interview of elop, supposedly
05:40.06ruskiewth is MSSF???
05:40.09GAN900What is Elop thinking?
05:40.17DocScrutinizerso probably that mail Corsac pointed at, that stated harmattan is dropping DRM was only another fog bomb to brainwash devels
05:40.18GAN900How the hell can you end this with one device.
05:40.33ruskieGAN900, what he always has been... how to ruin Nokia so that Microcrud can absorb it as a mobile division
05:40.35DocScrutinizermobile simple security framework
05:40.43DocScrutinizerruskie: ^^^
05:40.44GAN900"Here's this awesome thing that even Engadget loves. But let's burn it down."
05:41.02DocScrutinizerthe true name of aegis
05:41.10GAN900OK, so what is the BOARD thinking. . . .
05:41.11kirmawell, elop wants to make certain that sales are miserable so that he can stagnate "long term" development of meego into oblivion, making nokia dependent on microsoft
05:41.16ruskieI'm more impressed that quite a few people @work are interested in a N9
05:41.57GAN900So, in summary, "Long term disruptions." is bs
05:42.05kirmathen again, definition of a "phone" is slippery for nokia, and thus they can use weasel word excuses later if elop-sabotage fails
05:42.07GAN900How much bs can one company spew out?
05:42.19ruskieGAN900, think Microsoft
05:42.23kirmaI don't know the exact wording on the paper now
05:42.58ruskieI think infinite amount comes close to it
05:43.20DocScrutinizerkirma: nice one
05:43.20ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/uspto_rejects_oracle_android_claims/
05:44.28kirmatitle is "Elop rules out return of Meego"
05:44.48DocScrutinizerkirma: link!
05:44.52kirmathe guy really is a trojan of microsoft
05:45.01ruskieDocScrutinizer, [07:40:03] <kirma> paper version of helsingin sanomat, interview of elop, supposedly
05:45.10kirmait's in finnish, and requires subscription
05:45.14ds3can Meego run Maemo binaries?
05:45.43ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/australia_laws_fight_cybercrime/
05:45.46kirmahttp://www.hs.fi/haku/?kaikkiSanat=elop+sulkee+pois+meegon+paluun
05:46.18DocScrutinizerruskie: how's that link related?
05:46.35ruskieit isn't
05:46.45ruskiebut it is interesting none-the-less
05:47.20pabs3without a warrant, wtf
05:47.22DocScrutinizerkirma, is this a link to the article (-teaser)?
05:47.53kirmait's a link to article search, and from there you can, at least theoretically purchase the full interview article
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05:48.24ruskiecopy paste to a pastebin?
05:48.28GAN900Well, if the stock goes up more with release, I'm not sure how the board can ignore it.
05:48.45ruskieatleast the relevant parts
05:49.19GAN900A lot of people in the US have already had experience with WinMob
05:49.28GAN900they're not interested in more of it.
05:49.52kirmawell, Elop obviously trusts that his disrespect for the platform makes operators and consumers avoid N9, and details of sales come at least one quarter late, just nicely for WP7 to take over
05:50.30kirmafate of nokia is not important to elop, it's just better that nokia is weak than self-supporting
05:51.37kirmait's incredible how anyone can let a guy with such self-sabotaging comments stay as CEO of a company
05:52.00kirmaa comment like that costs millions, if not tens of millions, and apparently it's completely intentional...
05:52.26DocScrutinizerGAN900: indeed, also shareholders will go mad about it. But seems Elop is not tangented by any of that
05:53.20kirmaincredible attitude considering very positive feedback from the media, for once, for a nokia product
05:53.39ruskieyup
05:53.45DocScrutinizerindeed
05:54.13DocScrutinizerseems Nokia completely bent over and surrendered
05:55.02DocScrutinizerwe should send vaseline to the board
05:55.09monoidkirma:  :(
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05:55.27kirmashould see the real article, though.
05:56.12kirmait seems like elop is intentionally attacking back on positive feedback
05:57.00monoidwell i don't think many people in this channel appreciate his ideas
05:57.16DocScrutinizerit's so fsckng obvious it really hurts your eyes watching this (!self-)destruction
05:57.49monoidhow about everyone in this channel leave to form a new linux phone company
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05:58.24DocScrutinizermonoid: will still open a gap of several million on capital
05:58.31wmarone_you will immediately be beset by software patent and hardware patent lawsuits
05:58.42DocScrutinizerthat as well
05:58.43wmarone_they do not want new up-and-comers entering the market
05:59.07DocScrutinizerchip manufs simply ignore you...
05:59.17wmarone_and idiots will spam forums bitching about you lacking an ecosystem
05:59.18kirmahttp://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&u=http://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite/Talous/1194684338547/artikkeli/elop%2Bhs%2Blle%2Bn9%2Bjaa%2Bainoaksi%2Bmeego-puhelimeksi%2Bmyyntimenestyksesta%2Briippumatta.html&ei=v9UCTqC6OYjvsga85tn1Cg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite/Talous/1194684338547/artikkeli/elop%252Bhs%252Blle%252Bn9%252Bjaa%252Bainoaksi%252Bmeego-puhelimeksi%252Bm
05:59.25kirmaah, nice link!
05:59.55kirmahttp://tinyurl.com/62fwkmw
06:00.16ruskieis grateful for kirma not posting a tinyurl first ;)
06:00.18kirmanot the original source, but at least outlines the content
06:00.38DocScrutinizerfsckng google is slow like hell for me, since last day
06:01.10ruskie- I've talked a lot about how to increase people's sense of responsibility, empathy, listening to customers and each other and avoid being arrogant, Elop said. <-- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
06:01.25monoidi usually have to censor my comments about that man
06:01.35DocScrutinizerstill loading
06:01.41kirmabasically the headline says "Elop to Helsingin Sanomat: N9 to remain as the only Meego phone regardless of sales numbers"
06:01.58GAN900ruskie, it's funny.
06:02.01GAN900He's right.
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06:02.16GAN900Arrogance is a big part of Nokia's problem
06:02.24ruskieand he kinda personifies it
06:02.31kirmaarrogance of elop
06:02.31GAN900But he's also a damn hypocrite
06:02.34DocScrutinizerhe exploits that
06:02.47wmarone_I get it now
06:02.58monoidwell there were problems before elop, like making maemo a 5-year chinese plan
06:02.59wmarone_Elop did not arrive at Nokia to find a "burning platform"
06:03.11wmarone_he came and found a messy platform, and promptly set it on fire
06:03.12kirma"only Meego phone even if it would be sales success"
06:03.18GAN900monoid, right, the arrogance.
06:03.18DocScrutinizerWTF??!?! still loading
06:03.19wmarone_then sat outside, like arsonists do
06:03.25wmarone_"omg it's on fire"
06:03.30kirmawhat a moron with company interests can really make such statements
06:03.37GAN900wmarone_, *facepalm+
06:04.04monoidlol wmarone_
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06:04.42MikaTwmarone_: haha :D
06:05.01DocScrutinizerit's depressing true
06:05.20DocScrutinizerwow 96% loaded
06:05.56monoidDocScrutinizer: it loaded very fast for me
06:06.04GAN900Is it just me, or is the internet just getting slower?
06:06.11GAN900Nothing loads quickly anymore
06:06.28monoiddisable javascript?
06:06.33GAN900There was a short time just after broadband became affordable when things were snappy.
06:06.38GAN900Now it's all just slow
06:06.47GAN900monoid, that's part of it, yeah.
06:06.49wmarone_GAN900: I think it's Florida. The whole state is being throttled.
06:06.59GAN900wmarone_, could be.
06:07.16GAN900It was slow in CA.
06:07.32monoid'noscript' is a wonderful ffox plugin
06:07.35wmarone_that's because you had 1000 people using it
06:07.52GAN900wmarone_, at my friend's apartment in the city
06:08.01wmarone_oh, hm
06:08.05GAN900and at my parent's house south.
06:08.05monoidi nfs mounted simtel in 1991 on the laboratory NeXT :)
06:08.29monoidhmm 1992 mabe
06:08.30wmarone_I guess my local comcast franchisee is strangely competent then
06:08.31DocScrutinizerwhat a fscking mole
06:08.35wmarone_I actually get the speed I pay for
06:08.42GAN900I do too, generally
06:09.01GAN900But most things just seem slow.
06:09.23ruskieis amused at how quickly the conversation goes from Elop bashing to internet slowness
06:09.42GAN900ruskie, late night unfocussednessssss
06:09.55ruskie0810 here
06:10.20GAN900Besides, there's only so much rage I feel like working up over things anymore.
06:11.00DocScrutinizerruskie: indeed, time to get breakfast, as my stomach can't take the elopocalypse any longer, without a basement
06:11.36ruskiehehe
06:11.43DocScrutinizerI really wonder what protection class Elop's car is
06:12.11monoidi want to see the cream pie to the face moment bill gates got
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06:12.16DocScrutinizerprobably he made Nokia get him a car that's nuke-safe
06:12.18GAN900Yes.
06:12.30GAN900Mr. No-Arms deserves it and more.
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06:12.52Termanagood morning
06:12.55cloudyLightsmorning
06:12.58DocScrutinizermorn Termana
06:14.27monoidall this bad news makes me appreciate the N900 achievement more
06:14.30DocScrutinizerI honestly suggest to unify maemo with pure meego and turn it into an anti vendor port project
06:14.48monoidwhat this means?
06:15.16DocScrutinizerget OS on arbitrary hw platforms, with or without support from vendors
06:15.37pabs3isn't meego a vendor project?
06:15.41pabs3intel etc?
06:15.43DocScrutinizerbasically emancipate from Nokia
06:15.55DocScrutinizerand Intel ;-P
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06:16.44DocScrutinizerI mean maemo community is still strong, we can drive such a project, even when Elop says meego is dead
06:17.58monoidi like this
06:18.15DocScrutinizerin the end meego is not a property of Elop, and he can't do more than deny support for porting maemo/meego to future Nokia products. He can't stop it though
06:19.03monoidumm.  he could make drm'd WP7 phones
06:19.13robbiethe1stDoes that matter though? So long as MS gets their WP7 fee for each phone sold, do they really care what OS is actually run?
06:19.23DocScrutinizerand I bet a good, even the better part of Nokians is with us, either subversive in their working time, or during leisure time
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06:24.09DocScrutinizerplus it's probably the only way to significantly spoil Elop's evil plot, when this anti vendor project gets some momentum, as it will have impact on MS plans about the ecosystem
06:24.52pabs3how open is meego? is it tightly controlled by vendors?
06:25.04DocScrutinizeras soon as MS notices it and considers it as a potential threat in the future, they will do as always: embrace
06:25.38DocScrutinizerso I can already see Balmer giving Elop a call
06:26.10robbiethe1stI don't think we have too much to worry about there... No way is MS going to control anything, what with Android taking over the market. Unless MS does something amazing - Like providing a full backawards-compatible desktop environment on x86 phones -- I doubt that will change
06:26.30pabs3would consider Debian instead of MeeGo
06:26.34pabs3is biased though
06:27.41DocScrutinizerpabs3: we got debian "running" on N900 since quite some time afaik. The point is Nokia did a pretty good job in adapting linux to embedded, their particular embedded
06:28.03DocScrutinizernot even meego-arm can catch up with this yet
06:28.35DocScrutinizerthat's why I sid "unify maemo-harmattan and meego proper"
06:28.39DocScrutinizersaid*
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06:30.40DocScrutinizermainly it's just abold public statement council had to publish, about "we don't listen to Elop, we definitely will continue Meego(/maemo-harmattan)"
06:30.51DocScrutinizerfirst instance
06:31.03pabs3would like to see that at the very least
06:31.45DocScrutinizereven such statement will kinda counteract Elop's plans
06:32.16DocScrutinizerand may rise sales of N9 quite a bit
06:32.40DocScrutinizerwhich will spoil Elp's/Balmer's plans even further
06:34.50DocScrutinizerthen get some anonymous Nokia employees state they like the idea of keeping meego alive and will help any way they can
06:35.20DocScrutinizermaybe even not so anonymous
06:35.47DocScrutinizerheck, this Elop isn't Godfather himself
06:35.58monoidit feels so dilbert
06:36.03pabs3get the higher-ups who already left involved in the statement
06:38.42meceDiscussing elop are we.
06:39.00meceI get the feeling that guy really hates linux...
06:39.40DocScrutinizerthat guy is MS. Period
06:39.59meceyep
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06:47.46DocScrutinizerLOL >>Welcome to Nokia Developer Launchpad program! Your membership is now active...<< Applied accidently with reasoning "blablabla" on why I want to join, literally
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06:50.35pabs3DocScrutinizer: haha!
06:51.00flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: as if they have time to actually read applications to the program :p
06:51.30DocScrutinizerseems they have, as it took ~16h for acceptance
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06:53.07ruskieDocScrutinizer, so does that mean you're getting a N950?
06:55.24DocScrutinizermaybe
06:55.42DocScrutinizerkonttori thought I should
06:56.38fralskonttori probably got enough pull on this to make it happen ;)
06:58.49DocScrutinizerI'd think so, if I was capable to correctly apply
06:59.13DocScrutinizerand he doesn't forget about it during those stormy days
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07:00.31kirmawonders if the news he passed are exactly from elop's mouth. it would not be the first time news outlets mix up factoids and persons commenting things... still haven't seen the paper version
07:01.55CorsacDocScrutinizer: the thing is, they seem to really want app developer (to bootstrap, I guess) and I'm not sure they're really interested in “platform” people
07:02.04DocScrutinizerhe might even deny and step back, depending on immediate impact this is causing. I doubt though he'll do anything like that
07:02.19ruskieto arrogant
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07:02.47ruskiewould like a n950 as well but not a dev of any reasonable semblance.. mostly just a hacker
07:02.57DocScrutinizerCorsac: Konttori thought it might be valuable to have some "hackers" as well
07:03.04Corsacgood news
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07:03.27Corsacthough 250 n950 is really little, they'll have a hard time selecting people
07:03.46DocScrutinizersure, but there are more on the commercial side
07:04.17pabs3heard orders of magnitude more
07:04.32Corsacho?
07:04.33DocScrutinizerI'd guess so, yes
07:04.46Corsac(hey pabs3, you've been upgraded?)
07:04.59DocScrutinizerCorsac: usual PV run at Nokia is probably some thousand
07:05.16Corsacnot sure exactly where I got that 250 number though
07:05.37DocScrutinizerit's a correct number for meego community
07:05.43pabs3Corsac: I read on tmo that it was ~ 92000 total
07:06.00pabs3but who knows how accurate that is :)
07:06.01DocScrutinizerNokia developer has probably 10 times that number
07:06.15DocScrutinizerpabs3: what?
07:06.21DocScrutinizerWHAT?
07:06.31DocScrutinizer92k units N950???
07:07.00DocScrutinizerwell, then the sales boxing really makes sense ;-D
07:07.48kerioi want one!
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07:08.52pabs3DocScrutinizer: last post on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72784&page=2
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07:09.01DocScrutinizerthanks
07:09.16keriowhat i don't understand is why nokia is effectively wasting all the time spent in R&D for the n950
07:09.39ruskiehmm what's this about LG making a Meego device???
07:09.46Choomif they've got that many even I will apply even though I will most likely not have the time
07:09.50pabs3dunno where this tweet is, that seems to be the start of this 92k thing: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1033439&postcount=6354
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07:10.16ruskiewhy does that claim selling?
07:10.41DocScrutinizermeh, May 5th, Eldar
07:10.52DocScrutinizer"planning" even
07:10.57Corsacare we supposed to get a confirmation mail when registering to the developer program?
07:10.59Choomkerio: I like to believe the idea is to have a platform to fall back to just in case WP7 ends up being a total failure
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07:11.18keriowell no shit it'll fail
07:11.23kerionobody likes wp7 apparently
07:11.29DocScrutinizerkerio: I don't think they planned or are planning now to do so (waste)
07:11.59DocScrutinizerruskie: (LG) rumour has that since quite some time
07:12.02keriodevs don't like having to use html5, windows mobile users don't like the handholding, linux nerds don't like it because it's windows
07:12.16Choomit's a big company, with different factions inside, I assume
07:12.52DocScrutinizerCorsac: yes
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07:13.04DocScrutinizerfor devels.nokia.com
07:13.16DocScrutinizernot so for meego.com aiui
07:13.31Corsacok
07:13.37Corsac(I used meego.com)
07:13.55DocScrutinizerfor dev.nokia.com that's launchpad accept nitification though
07:13.59kirmafull helsingin sanomat elop interview (in finnish): http://pastebin.com/Td9XJyKU
07:14.11Corsacok, the 250 number comes from https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit
07:14.22DocScrutinizeryup
07:14.24ChoomI guess I'll pass on that
07:14.31Choommy finnish isn't up to date
07:15.02ruskieChoom, run it through a translator
07:15.33kirmaunless it's journalist speculation, it'd appear that elop states that qt is not coming to wp7, and that "according to elop, there is no return to meego, even if n9 would be a sales success"
07:16.06Corsacwell, we already know long term consistency isn't exactly a nokia specialty
07:16.18Corsac(though I'm not sure we can count on that :)
07:16.35ruskiekirma, QT is nothing new
07:16.37Corsacand Intel seems really bored about Harmattan beeing called MeeGo after Nokia dropped them for MS
07:17.28kirmaI really wonder if these should be interpreted as official, stock exchange level statements or if elop uses his freedom to make informal statements to erode credibility of non-windows platforms
07:17.51ruskieconsidering the win platform has none..
07:17.55ruskiethat's a bit hard to do
07:18.16kirmawell, I think the company hasn't explicitly stated anything about inclusion or non-inclusion of qt on wp7 phones
07:18.22ruskiethey have
07:18.45ruskieiirc
07:19.08ruskiehttp://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/
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07:24.00Choomfrom what I'm reading, elop claims that meego will not return, but in the other hand he doesn't consider the N9's OS to be meego, he regards that as an implementation of "cutie"
07:26.44monoidwhy can't he go do something less harmful, like satanic ritual murder of children
07:30.59krayon:/ /me agrees with monoid
07:34.44pabs3monoid: that should go to LWN as a quote of the week :)
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07:36.21kerio-sigh-
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07:39.40mecemonoid, LOL
07:40.28mecemonoid, heh I'm listening to a song called ritual right now. They don't state if it's children they murder tho. But satanic it definately is :D No sign of Elop
07:41.12meces/definately/definitely/
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07:46.03monoidsorry that was uncouth
07:46.24monoidi'd be more upset if i were a finn
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07:54.47khertanMorning
07:55.35Choomwell
07:56.00ChoomI doubt investors would watch elop driving nokia to the ground idly
07:56.15Choomhe can be held accountable for damaging management
07:58.06khertanChoom: investor and board push it to the top of the company, and they probably didn't care of company future, they just want short term profit.
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07:59.43nid0tbh, while I want to see succesful followups to the n9 as much as anyone else, a lot of people crying for it really give the wp7 strategy more stick than it deserves
08:00.54Venemonid0, hehe
08:02.03khertani think the both system can't survive ... i just hope that the winphone ecosystem will never appear :)
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08:03.09Choomthey need somehting to power the lower end of the spectrum
08:03.13cloudyLightsmorning khertan
08:03.47khertancloudyLights: Morning
08:04.53Choomwp7 and harmattan are both high end systems, I don't think they can compete with symbian on budget budget phones
08:05.03cloudyLightsI need to fix the errors you found
08:05.14cloudyLightsthat whole def cli() is not in use
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08:05.20khertanyep but i think wp7 and harmattan can't survive in the same company
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08:06.08cloudyLightsI dont understand, did most developers here use hartman now?
08:06.18khertancloudyLights: nope :)
08:06.48cloudyLightsI mean , was all of the noise yesterday here about that new image Nokia released?
08:06.50khertancloudyLights: but using python/pyside i'm targetting Fremantle and Harmattan at the same time :)
08:06.59cloudyLightswas it a hartman image?
08:07.03khertannew image ?
08:07.17cloudyLightsn950 firmware I think
08:07.34cloudyLightsas there was a lot of trrafic I didnt keep up
08:07.36khertanah ... yep i take a look at it too :)
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08:07.44cloudyLightsext4 and such
08:07.54khertanbut i didn't have the device to try it
08:07.55ruskiecloudyLights, the noise in here is about the N9 and the lack of N950 for sale and yeah the firmware for the N950
08:08.19cloudyLightssumming it quite good
08:08.24khertanat the same time, i ve take a look at the repository ... there is a icon for NeedForSpeed shift in the theme :)
08:08.43khertanand a few other game
08:08.59khertanso it ll probably be sold with one or two commercial game
08:09.00khertan:)
08:09.05khertan(or demo)
08:09.41Choomit is also possible that nokia is testing the marketplaces
08:10.05Choomhalf of apple's profit comes from the iphone
08:10.42Choomand I'm inclined to believe that the app store contributes with a huge slice to that profit
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08:17.29cloudyLightsI say it too often: the "number if apps" shouldnt  be the main factor
08:17.42cloudyLightsthe quality of the apps - should
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08:18.35cloudyLightsIf I need to choose between a device that does all I NEED and one that can do lots of thing I dont know , I would take the first option
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08:19.33cloudyLightsalso, I think that maemo/meego should give better performance compared to android
08:19.53cloudyLightssay agumneted reality applications
08:19.54ruskiehmm fun... my cellco is offering an VoIP option so that I can use the same mobile number using VoIP stuff... and he wants me to pay 2eur for such a privelege...
08:20.12cloudyLightssweet
08:20.52ruskieand of course they charge me for calls normally
08:22.06khertancloudyLights: yep and every user have different use case.
08:22.24khertanneed a keyboard, an source code editor, python and qt
08:22.25khertan:)
08:22.33pabs3anyone know if the OpenGL ES requirement in Qt 5 is final? or did they recant?
08:22.51cloudyLightsI mean , my co worker has an iphone4 and I think I can now do more with my N900 then he can
08:23.01Choomkhertan: I'm quite excited about the N9, actually
08:23.17Choomit seems to have been designed with my requirements in mind
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08:23.54nid0other than a lack of keyboard, the n9 is overall very ace imo
08:23.57Choomthe iphone has annoying restrictions
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08:25.34Choomiphone users live comfortably with their on-screen keyboards
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08:26.00PolarFoxiPhone users live comfortably in their iClouds. :)
08:26.14PolarFoxI could make up iStuff forever.. :)
08:26.44monoidwith enough time i could make my own slider case + keyboard for n9
08:26.54monoidwell, easier to do a hinge
08:27.02khertanChoom: some iphone user ... i ve try to use it ... clearly not for me
08:27.20khertaneven after 2 weeks ... the onscreen keyboard was a real pain to use
08:28.14khertanmonoid: http://t.co/Fz6TT9z + http://t.co/KS7BPHD for a keyboard mod :)
08:28.53khertanthe n9 is a nice device ... it just doesn't for all users
08:29.22Termanakhertan, seriously, I am going to tape your mouth with that duct tape if you link to it again ;) :p
08:29.29khertans/for/have all needed thing for all user
08:29.36khertanTermana: haha
08:29.45PolarFoxWell.. you can get cheap stuff from chine for iPad and iPhone(bt kb) so, why not for N9.. ;)
08:30.25khertanPolarFox: because it s not well integrated so not useable while standing up in metro or tube ... and drain battery (bluetooth)
08:31.24PolarFoxtrue :( I wouldn't use one of those while driving either.. :)
08:32.01flailingmonkeyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k very sexy n950 video showing keyboard in use
08:32.53khertanPolarFox: using while driving ? bou !!!
08:32.58khertandangerous
08:33.03flailingmonkeyyou can tell that the extra work to polish UI/apps for landscape as well as portrait (n9's focus) was too much, so they decided for portrait this time, vs. landscape focus when they did N900
08:33.28PolarFoxkhertan: With N8 it's dangerous.. Wasn't that much when using qwerty of N900...
08:34.54khertanif you didn't look the road or distracting doing something else, reaction time rise up ... it s really dangerous ...
08:35.02khertanfor you ... but also for other
08:35.31pabs3hmm, so very shiny, matte screen might be better
08:35.38pabs3anyone seen a phone with one?
08:35.39meceflailingmonkey, quite nice :) I don't think it's as pretty as n9, but damn, WANT!
08:36.05flailingmonkeyIt's a bad habit. I'm usually able to wait until at least I am stopped, not while in motion, before reading, let alone writing on my cell
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08:36.39khertanPolarFox: two week's ago i stop at 10cm of a herd of boar crossing the road ... if i lost less than half of a second to react ... my car will be dead
08:37.37khertanmece: you haven't seen it before ? only nfc missing and it ll be the perfect meego device.... but not sold
08:37.38nid0but on the bright side, you woulda had plenty of pork to eat
08:37.56khertannid0: not really ... how i carry them :)
08:38.48khertannid0: and it s not big pork, it was true boar from Ardennes
08:38.59khertannot really same impact on the car
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08:41.20khertannid0: 80kg
08:42.10flailingmonkeynight
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08:45.19ShapeshifterI'm always surprised at how useless these android phones are
08:45.29ShapeshifterI am disappoint.
08:45.57ShapeshifterThe only great things are the superb google sync and maps/places/navigation
08:46.12khertanShapeshifter: try to found a text editor with source code highlighting in the iPhone app store ... :)
08:46.21khertaniphone are useless
08:46.22khertan:)
08:46.27khertan(at least for me)
08:47.19Shapeshiftercertainly. but the android market is littered with rubbish. And I just looked up some 'top 20 must have apps' for android and it comes up with lame stuff like facebook and twitter. and some photoshop
08:47.41ShapeshifterNow I'm trying to find a decent ssh client but they're either terrible or don't work
08:48.46jjoI think connectbot is ok
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08:55.53DocScrutinizerhi Shapeshifter :-)
08:57.03psychologeDocScrutinizer, hi
08:57.03DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: any clue why alarmed can't get killed by ^C when started from x-term without -C ?
08:57.48ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: mh, I need to check, maybe I'm not catching the signal.
08:57.59DocScrutinizer:-)
08:58.13mecekhertan, haven't seen it in such detail before :)
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08:59.33DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: I typoed yesterday (missed the -C out) and had to head over to other room to close the GUI ;-)
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09:01.01DocScrutinizer(didn't feel like messing any databases via kill -9 )
09:02.21DocScrutinizergreat, devel.nokia.com launchpad DDP has exactly ZERO devices I could get there, incl N9-devpack
09:03.31khertanmece:  :)
09:03.54khertanmece: you can imagine that .... i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one !
09:04.12khertanwhile i ll not bought an n9 :)
09:04.47khertankeyboard + 1Gb of Ram + python apps accepted in ovi ... perfect python mobile device for me :)
09:04.55khertanand a 4" screen
09:05.03khertanwhat can i ask more :)
09:05.05mecekhertan, it is just crazy how epic those specs are..
09:05.08meceperfect!
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09:08.16SpeedEvilkhertan: Swings-and-roundabouts on the Boar thing. You'd have lots of tasty, tasty pork though.
09:11.40nid0I already made that suggestion :p
09:15.38SpeedEvilThat was a test of the emergency SpeedEvil system.
09:15.50SpeedEvilIf that had been a real SpeedEvil, I would have been awake.
09:16.29SpeedEvilThe n9 screen is about the same sie as the n900 isn't it khertan?
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09:17.12VenemoDocScrutinizer, why is that?
09:18.04DocScrutinizerthat's what I try to find out right now, dunno if you can reach that forum: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?225798-N950-avaialbility&p=848505#post848505
09:19.16VenemoDocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597
09:21.44DocScrutinizerCURSES his DSL, the internets, all webservers and IT in general. Another time page takes minutes to load
09:23.03nid0hey, my webservers are working fine, dont blame them :(
09:23.39DocScrutinizerminutes? AGES!
09:24.09DocScrutinizerwhile a parallel opened page from bmo is almost instantly
09:25.28DocScrutinizerso same browser, just tabs, that somewhat precludes any problesm with my hw, huh?
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09:26.07DocScrutinizerBANG, there it is
09:26.20DocScrutinizerat least first 30%
09:26.22DocScrutinizer;-P
09:32.10ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: mh yeah the -C option thing is ugly.
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09:34.59DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: not too bad, but I felt like asking about it
09:35.48khertanSpeedEvil: about the same n9 is amoled 3.9", n950 is tft 4"
09:36.14MohammadAGsure it's tft?
09:36.28Venemoyes
09:36.41SpeedEvilCSTN FTW.
09:37.10khertanMohammadAG: this is was the note of the firmware flash image say
09:37.20khertans/was/what
09:37.55VenemoMohammadAG, http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html
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09:40.09lardmanmorning
09:40.39lardmanhey docScrutinizer at least you have internet ;)
09:41.00DocScrutinizeryo, and moo lardman
09:41.02lardmanthinks that may sound odd as he's obviously using the internet now
09:41.07lardmanhi Doc
09:41.35MohammadAGty khertan / Venemo
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09:49.25VenemoN9: Standby time: Up to 450 hours (WCDMA), up to 380 hours (GSM) ----> how is this possible? I would have thought that GSM takes less energy than WCDMA
09:49.41DocScrutinizermo MohammadAG
09:50.54DocScrutinizerVenemo: depends on particular build of modem. Basically standby means "RX only" and that might actually be better on WCDMA than on GSM
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09:52.15SpeedEvilRX with occasional waking up to check for scheduled signal from toer, and more occasional transmit to tower to tell it you're still awake
09:52.30DocScrutinizerfor TX WCDMA is usually more power consuming than GSM, mainly to the active time after transmitting a single byte of data
09:52.31Venemomhm
09:53.19MohammadAGmoo DocScrutinizer
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10:00.02VenemoI gotta go now
10:00.04Venemobb
10:00.20psychologehi
10:00.47mecetime to start preparing for midsummers. Bye!
10:01.24psychologecan some know ,how use command show User_List on X-Chat for N900
10:03.38psychologeor user shortkey to show User_List
10:04.43FireFly|n900ctrl +vol seems to work here
10:04.53FireFly|n900i.e. ctrl+F7
10:06.16Shapeshifteruh, is this right that the builtin maemo sip protocol handling doesn't work with most sip servers?
10:06.24Shapeshifterbecause of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5342
10:06.26povbot04Bug 5342: IM and VoIP accounts: Cannot sign in to ekiga.net SIP.
10:06.47Shapeshifterand does someone know a provider that works with the n900 behind nat?
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10:08.33robbiethe1stSipgate
10:08.34psychologeFireFly|n900, thank you very much
10:08.36robbiethe1stWorked easily
10:09.57Shapeshifterrobbiethe1st: "Due to the increased volume of new registrations within the last few weeks, we have unfortunately ran out of free numbers in your area and we are currently not able to offer you any alternative free phone number at the moment" :(
10:10.24ShapeshifterI don't even want a 'free number'
10:10.53Shapeshiftertried pbxes.com, also not working
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10:14.46Shapeshifter\o/ iptel.org works
10:20.50Shapeshifterbah. calling out works but calling in doesn't.
10:25.28Shapeshifterthis sucks.
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10:37.18PolarFoxNow some nameless nokia engineer says that Elop is lying about MeeGo... That they could easily release multiple devices..  nice.
10:37.19Shapeshifternow it works. oh well
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10:39.56pabs3PolarFox: link?
10:41.15PolarFoxhttp://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/
10:41.27psychologemameo the so good system.why nokia loss it
10:42.13PolarFoxpabs3: Story about that blog post is now in finnish media.
10:42.47MohammadAGhmm interesting
10:42.59MohammadAGDocScrutinizer
10:43.16opdf2old news but alien dalvik
10:43.17MohammadAGI have a friend's phone with me, he wanted it flashed and stuff, he had a lock code and it persisted after flashing
10:44.34robbiethe1stYea, old news.
10:44.50psychologeflash pr1.2
10:44.57robbiethe1stGrab the lock code, crack it with John the reaper
10:45.04robbiethe1stor w/e
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10:45.53pabs3any maemo/nokia folks going to DebConf11?
10:46.27MohammadAGrobbiethe1st, I have the code, just saying that some old FW didn't ask for it after flashing
10:46.47robbiethe1stHuh, interesting
10:48.36psychologeMohammadAG, flash pr1.2
10:50.47andre__PolarFox, I wouldn't call Felipe nameless though... :)
10:51.57PolarFoxandre__: Well.. Finnish media.. ;D
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10:52.50PolarFoxI'm not one of the informed people in here ;)
10:53.00PolarFoxI just whined alot when I had my N900..
10:53.10PolarFoxNow I whine because I don't have it :(
10:55.12ruskieheh
11:03.12psychologe11 a
11:03.17psychologe16 a
11:03.24psychologe9 a
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11:35.39DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: TOLDYA
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11:36.23DocScrutinizerpsychologe: color spaming is asking for kick
11:37.07psychologel am sorry
11:37.30RST38hyawns
11:39.25DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you tested if flashing both images cured the lockcode query issue?
11:40.09DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ...as that's be the right behaviour for this lockcode thing
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11:41.43DocScrutinizerfeels a bit embarrassed to have talked user0 and others thru endless series of hoops that were doomed to fail
11:45.43DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: also psychologe 's suggestion to flash PR1.2 COMBINED might or might not help, depending on what Nokia did to "fix" this issue
11:46.48psychologeflash PR1.2 ,code will clean
11:47.22khertanwith ssh access : install packe code-reset
11:49.06DocScrutinizerpsychologe: you actually tested that?
11:49.36DocScrutinizerkhertan: missing the point
11:50.24psychologemy friend try it ,it's ok
11:50.32RST38hAh, I see Elop did explicitely say that N9 is the last device>
11:50.34RST38h?
11:50.35*** join/#maemo Hurrian (~kenneth@121.54.2.104)
11:50.43psychologebut PR1.3 can'5
11:50.46psychologebut PR1.3 can't
11:50.50DocScrutinizerfrom 1.3 back to 1.2, after flashing 1.3 asked for code?
11:51.07DocScrutinizerRST38h: indeed
11:51.31psychologeYES
11:51.40DocScrutinizervery good, thanks
11:52.44Hurrianmmm, since this is #maemo, can i ask if anyone's been able to get the rootfs.lzo file opened up?
11:52.47DocScrutinizerso Nokia just "fixed" the mce-whatever process that asks for lockcode, and probably checks for a cookie on eMMC somewhere in PR1.3 version
11:53.25DocScrutinizerthe simple but usually sufficient approach
11:53.49DocScrutinizernot for using PR1.2 rootfs though ;-P
11:54.39*** join/#maemo mrsellout (~mrsellout@78-105-172-183.zone3.bethere.co.uk)
11:54.41DocScrutinizerto fix it for PR1.2 "crack" as well, they had to patch NOLO
11:55.26DocScrutinizerwhich still leaves vulnerability of using coldflashing
11:55.45DocScrutinizerso they can as well not care at all
11:56.16*** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B49552.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:57.34DocScrutinizerthey could take down PR1.2 COMBINED from their download site ;-P
11:57.53DocScrutinizersilly move
11:58.27Hurrianthen again, most people who steal phones don't usually know how to use flasher ;)
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11:58.57DocScrutinizeryeah, the whole purpose is rather questionable in the end
11:59.01robbiethe1stAAnd you typically lose most data during the flash, so...
11:59.15DocScrutinizereither they know, then they will crack lockcode anyway
11:59.29DocScrutinizeror they dont, and just go "meh"
11:59.36robbiethe1st'Course, you can alternately just flash a backupmenu image, set it up, and get everything other than was on the rootfs...
11:59.58DocScrutinizerexactly
12:00.04DocScrutinizerinfinite attack vectors
12:00.21DocScrutinizerboot meego from uSD, via flasher
12:00.27DocScrutinizerand recover all
12:00.42robbiethe1stPhysicall ownership = ownership, really.
12:00.57DocScrutinizerunless you use proper cryptofs
12:01.10Hurrianalso, n900 wasn't designed for full device encryption
12:01.17Hurrianas we're painfully aware of
12:01.18DocScrutinizeryup
12:02.10*** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)
12:02.15Hurrianthe most you could do locking down the thing would be crippling osso-usb-export, adding a lockcode, crypting /home and remounting everything, etc
12:02.16DocScrutinizerok, so general advice: GET YOUR LOCKCODE prior to flashing. If you missed on that, flash PR1.2 rootfs and reset it
12:03.24DocScrutinizerpatching NOLO would help a lot
12:03.39HurrianDocScrutinizer: well. how do we patch NOLO?
12:03.45Hurrian>>>>>closed source
12:03.53DocScrutinizernot at all, as we're missing source
12:04.07DocScrutinizerjust mentioning it
12:04.15Hurrianunless we do it like the OpeniBoot people and rewrite it ourselves
12:04.18robbiethe1stHurrian: ...Or just mount an encrypted FS on MyDocs, and symlink your important data into that
12:04.21MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, basically, he had the device ask for a lock code every hour or something
12:04.23robbiethe1st*as a file in
12:04.28MohammadAGI know the code, so I didn't disable this
12:04.42MohammadAGthe device asked for the code before and after flashing
12:05.07DocScrutinizerseems it even asks after flashing on devices that didn't ask before
12:05.10*** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)
12:05.29DocScrutinizeras soon as you've changed lock code from default to sth different
12:05.44HurrianDoc: O RLY?
12:05.47Hurrianwow, that's broken
12:06.06Hurrianthere shouldve been a flag in CAL to indicate whether lock is ON or OFF
12:06.14Hurrianuhh, like the Symbian phones
12:06.23DocScrutinizerHurrian: mhm
12:06.34*** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)
12:06.38DocScrutinizerjust that it's not like that, at least for PR1.2
12:07.19Hurrianthat's a rather sewious regression then]
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12:08.15*** join/#maemo petterw (~petterw@unaffiliated/petterw)
12:08.16DocScrutinizerso what they probably do is set a flag on both rootfs (there it's known to be in gconf) and on eMMC (there unknown yet), and if any of both is set, then ask for lockcode if it's not the default 12345
12:08.30SpeedEvilexpands into 4 clones, and sings as a barbershop quartet on the theme of how fun it is to enter bugs into bugzilla.
12:08.32Hurrianah
12:08.44MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, afaik only if you have it set to lock after some time
12:09.18DocScrutinizeruser0 claimed different
12:09.39*** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
12:09.39*** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro)
12:09.53javispedromoo gentlemen
12:10.02RST38hbaaa javispedro
12:10.06Hurrianmoo, just finished shagging another cow
12:10.31nid0huh, so elop also just showed off the first wp7 device?
12:10.36RST38hThere is a piece of good news about Elop though: he has never spent more than a year on a job
12:10.38DocScrutinizermoo javispedro
12:10.53*** join/#maemo jben (~jben@alpha.jben.info)
12:10.53Hurriannid0: and elop doesn't care whether the N9 is a flop or a hit
12:10.56javispedroRST38h: there's always a first time!
12:11.04Hurrianwasted RD dollars indeed
12:11.18RST38hjavispedro: the chances of this one being the first time are kinda slim though
12:11.20Hurrianremember, MS won't certify a device for WP7 if it doesnt have the buttons
12:11.43nid0bit dumb telling a load of journos to turn off all their cameras because hes gonna show them something he doesnt want getting out
12:11.48nid0then whipping out a new phone
12:12.24SpeedEvilhaha
12:12.37javispedronid0: not dumb
12:12.47SpeedEvilwonders if the CEO needs to sign NDAs.
12:13.01Hurrianjavispedro: practically every WP7 device looks very much the same.
12:13.26Hurrianslab, the nav buttons, and screen pixel density
12:13.39javispedrowhere are the nav buttons on this one btw?
12:13.40FIQMS controls how devices with WP7 are being built
12:13.43nid0it seems like nokia have got carte blanche to ignore that
12:13.45HurrianMS is very, very strict about this
12:13.52nid0as the new one's identical to the n9 but with a camera button
12:14.05MohammadAGI hate how KDE restores everything I had open before shutting down
12:14.18HurrianMAG, gnome3 does this too by default
12:14.19SpeedEvilMohammadAG: you can turn that off somehow. I forget how.
12:14.29HurrianOS X Lion now does this too
12:14.32HurrianWHY
12:14.32FIQThat's useful in some peoples opinions
12:14.38DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: change it in KDE sysconfig
12:14.43nid0yer, tbh its incredibly useful
12:14.44FIQPretty sure that is possible to shut off
12:14.51HurrianFIQ, useful for people who only browse facebook and the like
12:14.54MohammadAGimplementing a custom enhanced lockscreen, QWidget/QML?
12:14.55javispedroit's the unix way
12:15.02Hurrianwhen i say shut down, i say SHUT DOWN
12:15.13nid0and it shuts down
12:15.24Hurrianand no, windows, shutting down does not take 20 minutes
12:15.32Hurriansame goes for android
12:15.35Hurrianand iOS
12:15.43DocScrutinizerKDEsystemsettings->extended->sessionmanagement
12:15.53HRH_H_CrabHurrian: ive seen windows take 20 mins to shutdown before on numerous occasions.
12:15.55DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ^^^
12:16.20FIQI have as well
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12:16.36MohammadAGty DocScrutinizer
12:16.40DocScrutinizeryw
12:16.43HRH_H_Crabonly the other day i pulled the plug on a w2k3 server because i was cheesed off with waiting for it.
12:16.46FIQUsually it is when it feels like installing some random things within windows update
12:16.51nid0even my tablet only take like 5 mins to shutdown win7 after a huge round of updates, maybe try not running it on a toaster
12:17.02javispedroDocScrutinizer: are the channel logs true? was your launchpad application approved????
12:17.13DocScrutinizeryes
12:17.17Hurriannid0, running it on a sandy bridge i5-2500k + 128GB SSD
12:17.20javispedroGOD HEAVENS!
12:17.20MohammadAGso again, should I use QML or QWidget for the custom lockscreen?
12:17.22Hurriandeffo not a toaster
12:17.25DocScrutinizerBUT....
12:17.33khertanMohammadAG: QWidget !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:17.37javispedroso what the hell does launchpad have against me??
12:17.40FIQNO BUTS
12:17.45DocScrutinizerjavispedro: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?225798-N950-avaialbility&p=848505#post848505
12:18.05javispedroDocScrutinizer: I am not there for the devices
12:18.05khertanjavispedro: it s not against you ... it s against everyone which aren't applying for a windows phone
12:18.17khertan(as there is no win phone ... it s against everyone)
12:18.45MohammadAGwonders how good of a UI he can get with QWidgets
12:18.48javispedrook, where do I complain
12:18.50DocScrutinizerjavispedro: apply again. They accepted "blablabla" as my reason to join
12:19.01javispedroDocScrutinizer: cannot: it says my application is in progress!!
12:19.02DocScrutinizer;-P
12:19.10javispedroDocScrutinizer: REALLY???
12:19.12DocScrutinizerohfsck
12:19.14javispedro"blablablabla"
12:19.14javispedro??
12:19.18DocScrutinizeryes
12:19.23javispedroliterally???
12:19.27DocScrutinizeryes!!
12:19.28javispedrocurses
12:20.08DocScrutinizerI mailed support though, whining about the whole case and why I entered blablabla on 4th time trying
12:20.15DocScrutinizermaybe that's been it
12:20.28javispedroDocScrutinizer: tell me who to spam
12:20.38DocScrutinizersupport link
12:20.46DocScrutinizeron that friggin page
12:21.09javispedrostephen.elop@nokia.com
12:21.22DocScrutinizerLOL
12:21.47javispedro"There is an existing membership application already for this program. The applicant will be notified by e-mail once the membership application has been reviewed. "
12:22.01javispedroand I made my application back when they had the _old_ design
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12:22.28DocScrutinizerfsck
12:22.29*** join/#maemo kama (~kama@unaffiliated/kama)
12:22.34DocScrutinizertell that to support
12:23.20DocScrutinizerI think I used https://www.developer.nokia.com/General/Website_Feedback.xhtml
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12:26.27javispedrodone
12:26.59javispedro-> lunch
12:27.08DocScrutinizermmpf, 5 N900 on remote-device-access, no N950 though
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12:41.23petterwregarding nfc: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/netcom-shows-off-microsd-card-with-integrated-nfc-goodness-vide/
12:42.30ShadowJKdoes nfc-on-microsd also come with specs for writing a driver...
12:43.45Hurrianfirst rule is that neither the back cover nor the microSD card holder should be made out of metal;
12:43.49Hurrianteee heee
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12:44.10ShadowJKlol
12:44.23Maceryawn
12:44.33Hurrianthen again, those card shields are easily removable
12:44.41Hurrianthey dont need device disassembly
12:44.54*** join/#maemo idont (~iDont@j138215.upc-j.chello.nl)
12:46.49SpeedEvilThere have been all sorts of completely wacky SDs.
12:46.51SpeedEvilOne with GPS
12:47.05petterwso only company launchpad members can purchase dev devices?
12:47.34SpeedEvilAs I understand, yes.
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12:49.16jonwilHaving only recently bought a N900, I dont much care about the N9 or the N950
12:49.18jonwil:P
12:49.50Hurrian>The Nokia N9-00 is a smartphone made by Nokia based on the MeeGo "Harmattan" mobile operating system.
12:49.55Hurriandoes not compute
12:50.10Hurrianfirst, did they get meego cert for it?
12:50.43Hurriansecond, i dont remember nokia naming a meego instance "harmattan"
12:50.57Hurrianiirc "harmattan" + Moblin became mainline meego
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12:53.33jonwilis sad that Maemo bug 8347 is unlikely to be fixed :(
12:53.35povbot04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available
12:55.53SpeedEvilOh!
12:56.00SpeedEvilDoes n950 use a related modem?
12:58.49jonwilThe sad fact is that its a 1-line change but its in a closed binary that has too many exports to the rest of the system to be easily replaced with an open-source clone
13:01.35jonwilAlthough right now I would be happy if I could figure out why Findmine from the
13:01.39jonwilfrom the repos
13:01.41jonwilwont boot
13:01.46TermanaHurrian, what are you ON?
13:01.47jonwildraws some stuff then fails
13:01.57jonwiland quits
13:02.15TermanaJust do a google search for Harmattan MeeGo
13:02.19jonwilAny ideas how I can debug what Findmine might be doing or why its suddenly failing?
13:02.22Termanaand yes, they got TSG approval to use the name
13:02.38jonwilI tried a reinstall and and a reboot and etc and no luck :(
13:02.50Termanajonwil, RE: <jonwil> Having only recently bought a N900, I dont much care about the N9 or the N950
13:02.55TermanaThat'll change soon enough, believe me
13:03.32TermanaBack just before the N900 got released, even though I knew it was coming, I brought an N810. When the N900 got released I thought I could contain myself
13:04.01jonwilI only bought one in January and I just cant afford to replace my "new" phone so soon after purchase
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13:06.11Choomyou can always sell your old new phone and buy a genuinely new one
13:06.41Choomsome people seem to want to own as many n900 as they can put their hands on here
13:06.54TermanaBut if you buy an N9
13:06.56jonwilwell I have no interest in buying a N9
13:07.00TermanaYour only allowed to get it in black
13:07.05Termana;)
13:07.15jonwilsince I specifically bought the N900 because of the physical keyboard
13:07.39Choomnot like the n900 had many colors to choose from
13:08.05jonwilAnd the N950 isn't likely to be something I can obtain here in Australia with an Australian warranty that I can get fixed at the local Nokia Care
13:08.29Termanajonwil, no N950 will come with any warranty, since that is the devkit
13:08.38Choomthat's not for public consumption either
13:08.47TermanaThe N9 will come in Australia, with Nokia Care here
13:08.51an0therb0xis the alien dalvik application available for the N900 ?
13:08.53edheldilI have bought my n900 in May, for ~ 150$. Since I expect the n9/n950 will/would be close to 1000$ here, no much offset in selling n900 for n9
13:08.53jonwilbut I dont want an N9
13:09.20jonwilso I have no option but to keep my N900 as the N950 is not likely to be available to me
13:09.54keriothe n9 is horrible
13:09.57TermanaThe N950 is only available to developers, but the N9 will be available in Australia
13:10.11kerioi don't know wtf was nokia thinking
13:10.17Termanawhat exactly are you defining as "not like to be _available to me_"
13:10.23Termanalikely*
13:10.42keriothe only hope is the fact that they did design the n950, and making 5 units is going to be a waste
13:10.47Choomthey were and are thinking about a phone for human beings looking for a phone and not a pocket linux box
13:11.03kerioChoom: well they thought wrong, because nobody will buy it for that purpose
13:11.12ChoomI will
13:11.14keriobecause for normal phones there's android and the iphone
13:11.24Choomand many iphone users have demonstrated interest in it
13:11.49kerioanyway, they're evidently capable of making n950s
13:11.52keriowhy won't they sell me one
13:12.06Maceri want a pocket linux box heh
13:12.10Termanakerio, manufacturing/carrier issues
13:12.18ChoomI do expect the N9 to sell a lot better than the N900
13:12.18keriocarrier issues? :|
13:12.21TermanaAlso
13:12.21Maceri am sure there is a pretty big market for that
13:12.22kerioi want to buy it from nokia
13:12.35TermanaThey have designed the N9 for both MeeGo and WP7
13:12.44Maceri don't want a qwertyless n9 :(
13:12.59Macerand i sure in hell dont want winmob
13:13.02kerioMacer: you mean you don't want a qwertyless nit
13:13.02TermanaThat's why they are selling the N9, because they can mass produce them for both markets
13:13.06keriothe n9 is qwertyless
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13:13.12Macerkerio: nope. phone too
13:13.16Maceri know it is
13:13.18keriowell, yeah
13:13.22kerionit/phone, like the n900
13:13.31Macerwhich is why i hope they release the n950 to the masses
13:13.56Macerkerio: well. i would consider it more of a laptop in my pocket
13:13.59an0therb0xNokia is very puzzling , why would they tie themselves down to a single OS, if an individual is an adherent Nokia fan and is interested in trying applications of functions available on Android or WinOS you are not forced to move away from Nokia
13:13.59Macerbut whatever :)
13:14.09petterwthey've said they won't pretty clearly
13:14.11kerioan0therb0x: because elop
13:14.18kirmaeverything elop has been doing lately, especially after revealing N9 has pointed towards him trying to kill all interest on the device, though.
13:14.24an0therb0xwhy no make great devices that runs Android WinOS and Meego
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13:14.34Macerpetterw: they said the n950 will be released to devs
13:14.39kirmanext he could announce that all developers are fired before the device is coming to consumers
13:14.44Chooman0therb0x: exclusivity agreements
13:14.47Macermeego without a qwerty is retarded if it has xterm :)
13:14.58petterwMacer: that's not "to the masses"
13:14.58kerioMacer: and meego without xterm is retarded
13:15.00Macerkirma: i can see that
13:15.15Choomthough I don't think wp7 is going to power the budget phones
13:15.15TermanaMacer, xterm is not included by default on the n9. You can install it though
13:15.33MacerTermana: omg wtf?
13:15.33kerioTermana: and how can you operate it?
13:15.37an0therb0xChoom: Samsung , HTC makes devices for Android and WinOS , why not Nokia ?
13:15.41Macerwith the vkb?
13:15.42keriowith a virtual keyboard taking half of the screen away?
13:15.43Termanakerio, wtf do you mean
13:15.43Macer:)
13:15.56keriothe n900 can barely display 79x25
13:15.57Maceror a bt keyboard
13:16.04kerioand that's going fullscreen with no toolbar
13:16.11nid0theres a question about a BT keyboard though
13:16.18nid0DOES an n9 support them?
13:16.18Chooman0therb0x: they might be trying to find a place in the new phone market
13:16.26nid0because the current spec list doesnt include the hid profile
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13:17.44Choomnid0: there's no reason to believe it won't
13:18.04nid0well, the spec list listing all the bluetooth profiles it supports, and not having hid on the list, would be a reason.
13:18.08an0therb0xoh well hope the N950 is available to the public because I like Maemo/Meego and the physical keyboard , btw I tried Meego 1.99 on the N900 it comes with firefox
13:18.21ShadowJKhas 133x27, not fullscreen. N900
13:19.00ShadowJKChoom, dude, experience tells us that if obvious feature is not listed, it's probably missing
13:19.12Choomit's a software issue
13:19.27ShadowJKwell of course it is.
13:19.39Choomit's not like the FM transmitter, which you can not fix
13:19.47Choomit's more like MMS on the N900, which you can
13:20.33Choomthat's assuming it really isn't supported
13:20.39TermanaShadowJK, that's not entirely true
13:20.52TermanaWasn't like on the N800 or something there was something hidden
13:20.53TermanaIIRC
13:21.42ShadowJKeh?
13:22.03ShadowJKN800 supported bluetooth keyboards. N810 too. On N900 you need hacking
13:22.54TermanaNo, I'm simply saying that there was a feature on I pretty sure it was the N800, that was not listed but was later discovered
13:23.02TermanaI'm pretty*
13:23.24nid0interesting that the n9 apparently is actually going to ship with swype though
13:23.58ShadowJKare you sure that's swype, and not you, or someone else, confusing it with swipe?
13:24.09*** part/#maemo an0therb0x (~priest@96.255.88.180)
13:24.09nid0if theres confusion, its on nokia's spec list
13:24.18nid0under "software platform"
13:24.18nid0Swipe gesture instantly takes you back to the home view you started from
13:24.28nid0then "applications"
13:24.28nid0Key applications: Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Joikuspot Wi-Fi tethering, Accuweather, AP News, Swype, Track and Protect, Galaxy on Fire 2, Real Golf, Angry Birds Magic, Mail, video player, Drive, Feeds, search, calculator, Calendar, Contacts, music player, web browser, messaging, photos, photo editor, Ovi Store, Maps
13:24.44ShadowJKhm :-)
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13:28.22MohammadAGhow lockscreens should be http://i53.tinypic.com/2yoeb6a.jpg :)
13:29.45TermanaMohammadAG, playing bad music?
13:29.50Termanajust kidding :p
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13:33.30MoonTigerhey guys .... anybody here familiar with qt?
13:38.21psychologei am new study pyqt
13:41.44khertanMoonTiger: depends ...
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13:43.45khertanoh god ... the #n9 camera button to take picture is soft ...
13:43.47khertanthis sucks
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13:43.54khertanlike on iphone
13:44.10khertaneach time u move move your hand on the screen
13:44.12khertanpfff
13:44.15jierohi, guys, may I ask few questions. I got sound issue with some games including abuse, alien blaster, seems all sdl games.
13:44.36ShadowJKdo you have silent profile on?
13:44.38jierobeside, another question is, I cannot use camera.
13:44.45jierosilent profile?
13:45.03jieroI can listen to music and play some other games fine
13:45.14nid02khertan, community app #2 to be released for it will probably a shortcutd variant to repurpose the screen lock/power button when in the camera as a shutter :)
13:45.39jieroOne more issue is: the keyboard have tap sound - can I disable this feature?
13:45.43ShadowJKmusic player bypasses phone profile setting
13:45.46*** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@2001:470:21:31::42dc:22)
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13:46.08X-FadeIt is funny to see that Sea Ray did get a shutter button though :)
13:46.15ShadowJKSettings - display - touh screen vibration
13:46.39ShadowJKuh wait
13:46.42ShadowJKkeyboard?
13:46.57nid02X-Fade: the design story video for the n9 also has what now seem to be sea ray shown in it
13:47.08ShadowJKoh, settings - profile - key sounds
13:47.26nid02as it shows a few shots of an n9 with an extra button, which originally looked like an older prototype or something
13:47.27X-Fadenid02: Brothers :)
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13:48.29jieroShadowJK: thanks
13:49.17jieroShadowJK: i saw other user post in forum about the same camera issue after setup cssu
13:51.45jieroThe usage of tense... I have to improve my English...
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13:53.52MoonTigerkhertan, thnx ... i was in the qt channel and they helped
13:53.58MoonTigerjust learning the "qt way"
13:54.08MoonTigerand using the qtcreator thingy
13:54.23MoonTigeri think it is better to move to qt for n900 and future work yes?
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14:04.35tommiscan someone tell me, how do i access my n810 via ssh?
14:04.41tommisi've installed openssh
14:06.43*** join/#maemo gri (~gri@p4FCEB1B1.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:08.34khertanMoonTiger: Yes it s ... even if qml isn't really ready for all apps, and qwidget is deprecated for future :)
14:08.53MoonTigerok
14:09.04MohammadAGQWidget is NOT deprecated
14:09.09MoonTigerat least its c++ .... plain c is a nightmare after getting used to c++ / pyhton etc
14:09.14MohammadAGMeeGo deprecates it
14:09.41MohammadAGHarmattan doesn't
14:09.50MohammadAGQt 5 has it marked as done, not deprecated
14:09.58MoonTigerwhat replaces it in meego?
14:10.21MohammadAGQML is the preferred UI toolkit
14:10.26*** join/#maemo lescrooks (~lescrooks@rhelbox2.uio.no)
14:10.34MohammadAGMTF is nice, and deprecated
14:10.59MoonTigerqml is the script stuff no?
14:11.12khertanMohammadAG: but Harmattan isn't already marked as deprecated ? :)
14:11.42MohammadAGkhertan, Harmattan is quite nice
14:11.52khertanMohammadAG: of course Harmattan is quite nice ...
14:11.53MohammadAGMoonTiger, Qt Metaobject Language
14:12.02MoonTigera markup language
14:12.04MoonTiger*sigh*
14:12.18MohammadAGif you're a web dev it's easy to develop in
14:12.29MohammadAGexactly what I feel about it
14:12.34MoonTigeri dont want to do f***ing web dev :)
14:12.42khertanMohammadAG: if you are a dev it s more easy to make really crappy design
14:12.46MoonTigeri do enough of that anyways
14:12.51MoonTigerin php / c#
14:12.55MoonTigeri want to do c++
14:12.57MohammadAGbut eventually you have to get with the times I guess
14:12.58MoonTigeri like c++
14:13.09MohammadAGMe too
14:13.14MohammadAGI don't know QML well
14:13.24khertanMoonTiger: it s not web dev ... it s a look like css/js interface to say ... put my fucking QObject at this place
14:13.32khertanthe rest can be done in c/c++
14:13.36khertanor whatever else
14:13.47MoonTigerso its the ms xaml approach
14:13.51khertanthe problem is that it s new, and not mature enought
14:13.57MoonTiger*sigh* squared
14:13.59*** join/#maemo joppu (~joppu@cs78224200.pp.htv.fi)
14:14.04khertandon't know anything related to ms
14:14.12MoonTigerlucky u
14:14.19khertanit s a choice
14:14.26*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@208.106.33.148)
14:14.28MoonTigerwell i have to pay the rent
14:14.34khertantoo
14:14.43MoonTigerso that currently involves businesses who are MS shops
14:14.47khertanbut i didn't use ms tech
14:14.58MoonTigerif i could fins OS based businesses i would be happy
14:15.04khertanthe product run on ms windows
14:15.09khertanbut i didn't touch it
14:15.09*** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.131.209)
14:15.10khertan:)
14:15.20MoonTiger*sigh*
14:15.36khertani use 4D
14:15.37khertan:)
14:15.42khertana frenchy dev env
14:15.54khertanand for the rest ... PYTHON !!!!
14:15.59MoonTigerwell i have to make big db driven web cms systems that run fast enough not to suck on IIS and .net
14:16.29tommiscan someone tell me, how do i access my n810 via ssh?
14:16.41MoonTigertommis, find its ip and log in?
14:16.43khertanok.... there is some c#dot.net dev in my team
14:16.56MoonTigerkhertan, u are a python ninja
14:17.03khertanpython lover :)
14:17.18MoonTigeri prefer c++ .... i dont quite get the python object model yet
14:17.23*** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com)
14:17.40khertanaddict ... ninja ... probably not ... ninja are discrete
14:17.46MoonTigerhehe
14:18.05khertanMoonTiger: depends of use case ... each language have advantage ... and problems
14:18.06*** join/#maemo Wamanuz3 (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com)
14:18.20khertananyway ... even in 4D i use python now for some tasks
14:18.55khertanhttp://khertan.net/python_for_4d <<< for example ... this is a plugin to integrate python interpreter in 4D, and it s written in c
14:18.56khertan:)
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14:19.23lcukkhertan,
14:19.27lcuki have a c project
14:19.33khertanlcuk: hey !
14:19.36lcuk\o
14:19.36tommisMoonTiger, don't work
14:20.01khertanlcuk: yeah ? a c project ?
14:20.01MoonTigertommis, do ou have openssh installed on the n810?
14:20.09lcukkhertan,
14:20.13lcukpseudocode
14:20.17lcukcalled project_42
14:20.24MoonTigerlcuk, i have a bunch of c code i wrote just lately for n900 .... what a throw back to the old days
14:20.32tommisMoonTiger, yep
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14:20.38MoonTigerkhertan, 4d is like powerbuilder
14:20.44lcukkhertan, http://liqbase.net/liq.20110621_200232.codebox4.scr.png
14:20.47MoonTigertommis, is it running?
14:20.53tommisi dunno
14:20.57tommishow do i check
14:21.28MoonTigeropen a terminal and do "ps -e | grep ssh"
14:21.30tommisssh root@localhost worked on N810 itself so i quess it should pe
14:21.33tommisbe*
14:21.44khertanlcuk: look like basic
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14:22.04khertanMoonTiger: more like WinDev, Or Omnis
14:22.41MoonTigerright
14:22.59khertanlcuk: pretty slow write ... are you using n9 vkb ?
14:22.59MoonTigertommis, does your network have a firewall? or port forwarding?
14:23.01khertan:)
14:23.14lcukkhertan,
14:23.24lcukwhat do you mean slow write?
14:23.29tommisMoonTiger, i've got no idea
14:23.30lcukthat is hand-typed!
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14:23.38khertanoh ... really ?
14:23.41MoonTigertommis, u might want to find out :)
14:23.46khertanthis explain that :)
14:23.48khertani va
14:23.48tommisi should check probably
14:23.53khertani use a keyboard :)
14:23.54tommisi should have tought that
14:24.03lcukkhertan, it is my hand writing but typed.
14:24.03MoonTigertommis, np ;)
14:24.06tommisbut i am stupid and i need help on everything
14:24.14lcukso I wrote some random pseudocode
14:24.17MoonTigerits cool to ask 1st time
14:24.24*** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@cl-1567.ams-05.nl.sixxs.net)
14:24.25lcukand a parser for it
14:28.02*** part/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@117.136.31.187)
14:30.10MoonTigerbut but but lcuk.....you're smart :)
14:30.24lcukMoonTiger, determined.
14:30.26khertanlcuk: seems pretty nice
14:30.53lcukMoonTiger, when I look to my left, I see: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png
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14:34.35MoonTigerwell my lil identica app has been rewritten 4 times already
14:34.57lcukMoonTiger, each developer has their birdsong
14:35.09MoonTigerlibgrss / not libgrss .... libsoup / not libsoup
14:35.13lcukis that 4 times on maemo or overall different oses?
14:35.14MoonTiger:)
14:35.24MoonTigerusing diff approaches and libs
14:35.31MoonTigerto get it feeling right
14:35.41MoonTigerit wasnt feeling "elegant"
14:35.48MohammadAGPython, C/Gtk, C++/Qt, QML? :P
14:36.00MoonTigerwell it was plain c
14:36.05MoonTigernow im going to use qt
14:36.08MoonTigerso c++
14:36.44MoonTigeri know the world doesnt need another identica client but i want to do one for the fun and learning
14:36.54MoonTigerand cos i think heybuddy isnt so good on maemo
14:37.06khertanit s like me ... i ve written pygtkeditor ... version 2 using gtksourceview ... version 3 not ... khteditor ... rewrite in qt ... khteditor 2 ... rewrite in more elegent qt :)
14:37.22MoonTigerits about the feel of it for me
14:37.28khertanMoonTiger: Khweeteur can use identi.ca :)
14:37.28*** join/#maemo reenignEesreveR (~saqi@221.120.220.13)
14:37.30MoonTigerit has to "feel" right
14:37.50MoonTigerright but i dont like the interfaces and lack of multi account support
14:38.16MoonTigeroh ... multi account supprt
14:38.18MoonTigerdoh!
14:38.25tommisi just rm -rf / *'ed my N810. is this bad?
14:38.36MoonTigertommis, probably yes
14:38.37rm_workreflash, win
14:38.47MoonTigerkhertan, that looks sweet actually
14:38.50khertanMoonTiger: it support multiaccount :) ... and after the ui ... it s a personnal choice
14:38.53MoonTigeris it in the dev repo?
14:38.58khertani can understand some didn't like it
14:38.59tommisoh now the poor N810 tries to boot
14:39.05khertanMoonTiger: yep in the dev repo
14:39.10MoonTigeri will install it now
14:39.16khertanbrb in 10 min
14:40.08MoonTigerkhertan, 27mb for khweeteur??
14:40.21MohammadAGProbably python
14:40.43MoonTigerthats why i want to write a native app
14:41.01MoonTigeri knew there was a reason
14:41.03MoonTiger:)
14:41.42tommisif i take battery out of my N810 while its running the screen keeps the last image
14:41.51tommislike ghost or something
14:41.57tommisscary
14:42.02MoonTigerthats impossible
14:42.08tommis?
14:42.11ShadowJKit's python AND qt :)
14:42.12MoonTigerwith no power the lcd goes dark
14:42.37tommishmm
14:42.42ShadowJKMoonTiger, actually the LCD goes slowly white, and the backlight dies
14:42.48tommishaha
14:42.59MohammadAGShadowJK, Python and PyQt actually :p
14:43.00tommisgreat success
14:43.04MoonTigeri mean khweeteur sure looks nice and is a damn sight more powerful than i am going to write but 27mb??
14:43.37MoonTigerShadowJK, without paower an lcd goes dark .... no power = no "on" switches
14:43.53TermanaGees
14:44.15TermanaDid the N9 suddenly roll in a bunch of turd lickers?
14:44.59MoonTigerTermana, ?
14:45.02Termana/ignore #maemo
14:45.10ShadowJKMoonTiger, it's actually one of the ways you can tell if your N900 has bad battery contacts, if it goes white just before getting entirely black (because backlight also went away)
14:45.18MoonTigerahhhhhhh
14:45.41MoonTigerShadowJK, but thats n900 specific and it will go dark without paower
14:45.50TermanaMoonTiger, it's quite obvious you have not used an N810
14:45.56MoonTigerjust it might do something else for a few seconds before going dark
14:46.03MoonTigerTermana, i have an n810
14:46.05MoonTigerthanks
14:46.12MoonTigeri wrote software for it
14:46.13MoonTigerthanks
14:46.16MoonTigernext
14:46.36TermanaPull the fucking battery out of it while it's stuck on the bootloader dipshit
14:46.51MoonTigermine didnt get stuck on the bootloader so i cant
14:46.54MoonTigerdipshit
14:47.17TermanaThen stop talking about things that you have no clue about
14:47.24MoonTigerand if you have managed to create an lcd that retains an image after having no power you should file for a nobel prize
14:47.48ShadowJKActually my SmartQ 7 does it too. It has sysfs nodes exposing the power controls for lcd and backlight. When just lcd power is cut, it fades to white. When it "properly" switches off screen, the software coordinates painting the screen black, switching off backlight, switching off lcd
14:48.12MoonTigerhow can it be "white" with no power??
14:48.29ShadowJKit's probably the default state :-)
14:48.49MoonTigerbut white is the generating of light
14:48.55MoonTigerblack is the absence of light
14:49.02MoonTigerno power = no light
14:49.15MoonTigerwhat am i missing?
14:49.26hiemanshuintelligence
14:49.34MoonTigerpossily
14:49.41MoonTiger+b
14:49.45MoonTigertyping skills for sure
14:50.31ShadowJKbacklight is on. The LCD normally either passes or blocks light by using electrical current to make crystals align in a certain direction polarizing the light. If the crystals naturally pass light through with no power applied, it'll look white
14:50.51ChoomI think the N900's default is black
14:50.55MoonTigerfrom the reflected light?
14:51.13ShadowJKalso from the dying backlight
14:51.19ShadowJKit has bigger power buffer
14:51.22MoonTigerthe dying backlight yes of course
14:51.32MoonTigerbut when that has gone
14:51.34hiemanshuyou know the crystals dont exactly change the state as soon the power is cut
14:51.40MoonTigeryes of course
14:51.44ShadowJKand on SmartQ7 I can turn lcd off and keep backlight on :)
14:51.47MoonTigerthats why i said when it has *no* power
14:52.10hiemanshuso the front layer allows the light to pass
14:52.20hiemanshuand since there is no backlight, its not bright white
14:52.24MoonTigerbut pass from where?
14:52.30MoonTigerahhhh ok
14:52.32hiemanshuyou know how LCDs work?
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14:52.35MoonTigeryes
14:52.40MoonTigerwell i think so
14:52.52ShadowJKAnyway, google admitted on Earth Day that "turning out the lights" on google.com frontpage (they gave it black background) actually wasted more power, because it takes more power to display black on lcd than to display white :P
14:53.00*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade)
14:53.04MoonTigerliquid crystal between 2 sheets of plastic that either block or allow light
14:53.19ChoomShadowJK: that depends on the LCD
14:53.32MoonTigerso there are black and white lcds?
14:53.39Choomyes, of course
14:53.50MoonTigernot "black and white" as in monochrome
14:53.51hiemanshublack means no light is being passed, white means all light is being passed
14:53.57MoonTigeri mean black lcds and white lcds
14:54.05Choomyes
14:54.22MoonTigerbut where does the light "pass" from if it has no power?
14:54.53SpeedEviltransflection.
14:55.01MoonTigerok so reflected light
14:55.20Choomif the crystals in the active layer display a parallel alignment to the polarizing filter in the active layer, light passes through by default
14:55.22ShadowJKMy watch is actually hybrid, the numbers appear black under reflected light, but the backlight has inverted polarisation compared to reflected light, so when i activate backlight the background appears black and the numbers white :)
14:55.31TermanaMoonTiger, when this is all done, you can have some of my ice cream. It's cookies and cream, it'll make you feel better.
14:55.45MoonTigerTermana, ok thnx ... my head hurts already
14:55.53khertanhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/nokias-first-windows-phone-images-and-video/ <<< look like elop is trying to kill the MeeGo n9 buzz
14:55.56hiemanshustop using it then
14:56.09hiemanshukhertan: let me link you the full video
14:56.12MoonTigerhiemanshu, ok if you willstart being more polite
14:56.16Choomif you turn the polarizing filter 90 degrees the crystals in the active filter will align perpendicularly to the polarizing filter thus preventing light from passing by default
14:56.27khertanand a french joke : Elop ton windows phone, on en a rien à SeeRay
14:56.33hiemanshuMoonTiger: you know I am just kidding :P
14:56.34MoonTigerchoom ok got it
14:56.36hiemanshukhertan: http://www.technet.hu/telefon/20110624/exkluziv_video_elop_bemutatja_az_elso_windowsos_nokiat/
14:56.43khertanhiemanshu: no need to view this crappy os ...
14:56.43MoonTigeris feeling sensitive
14:56.47MoonTiger:)
14:56.51ShadowJKancient finnish joke: Mokia
14:56.59hiemanshukhertan: thats the full video :P
14:57.10ShadowJK(it means screw-up-ia)
14:57.13hiemanshuwhere he talks about the N9, and how the UX from the N9 will stay
14:57.18MoonTigergod he's a knob
14:59.10GAN900nid0, Bluetooth keyboards are supported.
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14:59.31nid0GAN900: great, so hid's just missing from the list but is there?
14:59.36MoonTigerwow winphone does actually blow
14:59.51MoonTigeri have a very good friend at ms and even he admits it sucks and isnt ready yet
14:59.59jonwilI would NEVER buy a Windows Phone 7 phone
15:00.45hiemanshujonwil: I would buy one, spit on it, and throw it outside my windows, just for the lulz :P
15:00.49hiemanshu-s
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15:01.05*** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@cl-1567.ams-05.nl.sixxs.net)
15:01.07jonwilThe #1 reason being that you need to pay Microsoft a yearly fee just to be able to write your own software for it.
15:01.18jonwilWith the N900 or with an Android handset, you dont.
15:02.09hiemanshusure but a java stack on a linux kernel, a living hell :P
15:02.16Choomthough I haven't heard good things about the android marketplace
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15:02.33jonwilYeah, Android is nowhere near as good from a development point of view as the N900 is IMO
15:02.36lcukjonwil, many people will happily use microsoft software since the rest of their business infrastructure is windows too
15:02.38nid0fwiw, the android market does have a registration fee for publishers
15:03.04jonwilAt least with Android you can develop, sell, distribute and install software outside of Google and its marketplace
15:03.47lcukyou can on any device
15:03.52hiemanshubut needing a 1ghz processor with 512M of RAM just to run stuff decently?
15:04.04hiemanshulcuk: iPhone?
15:04.14jonwilBoth the iPhone and Windows Phone 7 are locked down
15:04.17lcukhiemanshu, if that is the current stock coming out of the factories, why shouldn't it be used?
15:04.21jonwiland you need to pay money just to develop for them
15:04.32GAN900nid0, apparently. See qgil's blog comments.
15:04.34jonwilWhich is why I would never buy either device
15:04.35lcukhiemanshu, I tohught linux booted on iphones
15:04.41lcukand ipods etc
15:04.50hiemanshulcuk: like I said the other day, not everything :P
15:04.57lcukdetails
15:05.02hiemanshulcuk: well I was talking about low priced devices
15:05.11jonwilYou can hack the iPhone but only if you own one of the older models that has known exploits
15:05.12lcuklack of motivation from the linux hackers then ;)
15:05.32jonwilYou cant walk in off the street and buy an iPhone/iPod/iPad right now and hack it
15:05.34*** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@cl-1567.ams-05.nl.sixxs.net)
15:05.36lcuklazy asses :P
15:05.38hiemanshulcuk: they are working on it http://www.idroidproject.org/wiki/OpeniBoot
15:05.46lcukgood!
15:06.04hiemanshulcuk: they are working on the kernels, and there are barely 8 people in the group working on about 4-5 devices
15:06.26lcukhiemanshu, some parts of meego are similar
15:06.41*** join/#maemo gri (~gri@p4FCEB1B1.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:06.44hiemanshulcuk: true, but this is the whole project :P
15:06.53lcukroll up your sleeves to any favourite project where you can help
15:07.26lcukhiemanshu, if the iphone stuff can work
15:07.35hiemanshulcuk: I am looking to help, well but I'll be busy with my GSoC till about end of august
15:07.41lcukit will be really good to see on identical hardware how we can make meego fly
15:07.50lcukwhat is your gsoc?
15:07.52lcukwas a mentor in 2009
15:08.18hiemanshulcuk: Fedora Events System
15:08.23hiemanshuis a fedora contributor
15:08.36lcukawesome
15:09.00MoonTigerhiemanshu, exactly what about he current events system isnt good?
15:09.06lcukare the fedora app catalogues installable on meego netbook?
15:09.22hiemanshuI dont have a netbook to try it on :/
15:09.26hiemanshuis a poor student
15:09.28lcukbecause people are wanting a regular set of desktop apps on their meego builds
15:09.46lcukoffice and stuff
15:10.33MoonTigerhiemanshu, ahhhhhh i found it ... a web app
15:10.34MoonTigergot it
15:10.35hiemanshulcuk: I'll need to get a decent netbook first to try it
15:10.53lcukget an ideapad :)
15:10.56lcuknice little devices
15:11.05hiemanshulcuk: please donate :)
15:11.06lcuk1024*600 capacitive multitouch too
15:11.33ShadowJKis it powervr?
15:11.37lcukI have places in my house for about 4 linked ones
15:11.38hiemanshuI am a student, dont expect me to have a lot of stuff
15:11.39lcukno, atom
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15:11.45lcukit is nice though
15:11.46GAN900OK, this seems like pretty firm signal.
15:11.50lcukand battery lasts forever
15:11.58lcukGAN900, how do you find your ideapad?
15:12.07GAN900Announce Harmattan, stock goes up
15:12.18GAN900Announce WP7 prototype, stock goes back down.
15:12.21GAN900lcuk, shit.
15:12.26ShadowJKatom comes with either intel graphics, nvidia ion, or powervr in disguise
15:12.27lcukreally
15:12.36GAN900Crap TN panels on convertable netbooks are worthless.
15:12.36khertanGAN900: i didn't see a problem with that :)
15:12.38lcukShadowJK, ahh yes
15:12.45lcukbut I dont use 3d so don't notice
15:13.08ShadowJKbut you need 3d for meego
15:13.10lcukShadowJK, liqbase runs smoother on n900 than the ideapad!
15:14.24ShadowJKalso, I searched for ideapad, results in order of poularity: core i5, Pentium U5400, Turion II N530, core i5, core i3,
15:16.01hiemanshulcuk: about $450 in India, I'll probably get one in a few months
15:17.35khertanwhere is liqbase for n900 ?
15:17.46khertanit s not in the repo, isn't it ?
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15:22.36lcukkhertan, i am not very good at packaging so I am just trying to keep repository updated, hold on I have meego instructions
15:22.50lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liqbase.from.scratch.MeeGo.txt
15:23.03lcukthe repositories and instructions work on maemo
15:23.24lcukthey need tweaking and stuff, but have remained unchanged and in principle work on the n8x0 directly too
15:23.30DocScrutinizerlcuk: did I understand that as support when you meant "++ if possible" ?
15:23.38lcukwith enough disk space liqbase is buildable on device happily
15:24.05lcukyes DocScrutinizer, I think having an amount of technical knowledge around enhances the channel
15:24.18lcuklike was just done with the keyboard backlights
15:24.31lcuk:) you are a regular and knowledgable member of this community
15:24.36DocScrutinizerlcuk: so you might consider how you could maybe help
15:24.59DocScrutinizerI'm definitely not expecting anything to come from quim
15:25.14DocScrutinizerif you got a better idea, I'm all ears
15:25.40DocScrutinizerthought about asking konttori
15:26.25DocScrutinizermaybe you can investigate what's the true situation inside about that issue, in some private chats
15:26.55lcuknot really DocScrutinizer
15:27.05DocScrutinizera pity
15:27.06lcuki have too much family stuff to worry about private chats
15:27.16DocScrutinizeraah
15:28.00lcukso just coming in and out of public is easier on my mind for now, but talk about the simple things rather than complexifying it by hostmode stuff
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15:28.35DocScrutinizerwell, if you run into some Nokian that might be a worthy object for interrogations, just remember to ask about schematics and what he thinks about it
15:28.39TermanaDocScrutinizer, are you trying to get them to release schematics? When has the _ever_ happened from Nokia (besides leaks)? I thought that this would really be considered a dead end, after the run around with the N900 schematics
15:29.28lcukTermana, it is a discussion for technical folks, as important to them as code is to devs
15:29.40lcukor bugs for the testers
15:29.49DocScrutinizerTermana: not release, just let me have a look at them
15:30.00lcuklol DocScrutinizer
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15:31.25DocScrutinizerTermana: obviously Nokia never will *publish* schematics
15:31.39Termanalcuk, yes, but unlike bugs and code, Nokia has continuously given the round around with schematics
15:32.06TermanaDocScrutinizer, what makes you think they are going to change their mind though. Last time they wouldn't let you look at them
15:32.09lcukTermana, are there schematics for ferrari cars?
15:32.23DocScrutinizershrug
15:32.32DocScrutinizerI'm just not giving up
15:32.46Termanalcuk, don't ask me about cars, I am completely clueless about cars. But I would suppose so?
15:32.47DocScrutinizerand I feel I can help better when I got them
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15:32.57TermanaFor... the electronics?
15:33.25TermanaAnd I'm sure they have some sort of design documents for their cars
15:33.30TermanaLets not talk about cars, ok? :p
15:33.30lcukTermana, right
15:33.37DocScrutinizerTermana: your sw actually runs on that electronics - I know you don't want to hear that :-P
15:33.43lcukbut now, we used to get those same documents with hardware
15:34.07SpeedEvilAnyone happen to know of links to pictures of n950 that can be used in wiki?
15:35.11DocScrutinizero/
15:36.28Gh0stysoftware running on electronics? nonsense! :p
15:36.30TermanaSomething tells me, Nokia doesn't care about the fact that computers in the 80s/early 90s came with schematics - I hope this is not the reason you guys are going to give them the second time around
15:36.38Gh0styit all runs "in the cloud" :P
15:37.04TermanaWhen your pushing a car uphill, you don't tell someone to jump in and hit the accelerator
15:37.11Termanawhile it's in drive
15:37.24hiemanshuyou tell them to hit the brakes, so you can rest for a while
15:37.25Termanawhen the car is facing the people pushing
15:37.37Gh0stypushing a car uphill is stupid anyway
15:39.31hiemanshuso is the software on the cloud
15:39.33hiemanshuruns
15:40.28Termanahiemanshu, I have an application that runs in the cloud
15:40.34TermanaIt's called Precipitation
15:40.37Termanaba dum tsss
15:41.12hiemanshuTermana: the output is rain, and when its corrupted it outputs hail?
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15:42.58Termanahiemanshu, nah man. Hail is just one of those bugs that turned out really good because it ruins idiots cars. So I called it a feature instead.
15:44.16newbie007greetings, Does anyone know if the n950 for general public use (opposed to developers) and is it maemo ?
15:44.17hiemanshuTermana: +1 :D
15:44.30hiemanshunewbie007: no and yes/no
15:44.47newbie007what's the os?
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15:45.22newbie007well I guess it's up to the dev huh..
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15:46.07newbie007is maemo now hildon-desktop or some other transisitional state?  
15:48.04ShadowJKHarmattan does not have hildon
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16:03.02GeneralAntillesWatching Elop makes me want to punch kittens.
16:03.58nid0is the full video up anywhere easy btw?
16:04.04GeneralAntilleshttp://www.mobile-review.com/fullnews/main/index_eng.shtml?33913#33913
16:05.16lolcatWhy did they break N9? :/
16:07.21rm_workGeneralAntilles: poor kittens :(
16:07.40GeneralAntillesElop needs to put his hands down sometimes when he's talking.
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16:14.11JaffaGeneralAntilles: Nah, we might get Maggie to shoot him if he keeps it up
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16:14.25Jaffahttp://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/6/6a/Mr_Burns_evil.gif
16:14.57Jaffahttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Mr_Burns.png is better at summing up his subtly
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16:17.45hiemanshuJaffa: the hot one from die hard 4.0?
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16:20.14DocScrutinizerhttp://www.fplusd.org/uploads/pics/hgberndanzug.gif
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16:23.19GAN900Jaffa, tweet that yet?
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16:28.20hiemanshuhttp://i.imgur.com/SVuh1.png
16:29.54Choomthat leak is fake
16:30.07Choomor rather, staged
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16:30.57Choomlet us hope that the win phone ends up being a total failure
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16:31.24nid0well its not fake or staged, its not a leak
16:31.27Choomthis serves to show that there are internal tensions inside nokia though
16:31.52nid0the ceo of a company announcing the company's new phone publicly to a room full of journalists isnt a "leak" by any stretch of the word's definition
16:33.16SpeedEvilSure it is - he said don't film this bit.
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16:37.56Cor-Aiwhats the conversation app called if id like to start it from my terminal?
16:40.16GAN900It's like Apple during the 80s
16:42.12kerioGAN900: you mean when they kicked steve jobs out?
16:42.18kerionokia did the opposite thing though
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16:42.40kerioinstead of fiding a good ceo they hired a bad one
16:43.09hiemanshuthey should have hired me instead :P
16:43.11ThreeMthey hire a trojan horse
16:43.20ThreeMany person will be better than elop
16:43.35hiemanshuI'll take that as a compliment :P
16:43.39GAN900kerio, pitting Apple against Macintosh.
16:44.15SeabladeSo question, has anyone found a source for a replacement logic board for the n900 yet, seeing as how I doubt I can get my hands on the n950 anytime soon, I figured I would try to repair mine one more time, GSM chip seems ot be fried, just get communications error, blah blah, please reboot on every boot of the device
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16:46.11jonwilOnly way would be to either buy another N900 or to find someone with a broken N900 (e.g. broken screen) and salvage the logic board from there
16:46.29DocScrutinizerSeablade: resolder the chips
16:46.51SeabladeDocScrutinizerNot completely certain my soldering chops are up to it, but that is my last resort yes
16:46.52DocScrutinizerSeablade: there *are no* replacement boards anymore afaik
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16:47.32DocScrutinizerSeablade: some gentle hot air plus preheating on oven should do
16:47.39SeabladeDocScrutinizer Well that is unfortunate
16:48.26DocScrutinizerNokia themselves don'r repair N900 anymore when they can't fix a small part
16:48.56nid0I wonder if theyll change the authorised replacement from n8's to n9's when theyre out
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16:49.03jonwilIn both cases when my N900 broke, it was replaced rather than repaired
16:49.04DocScrutinizerso if Nokia can't swap boards, I doubt you can find one
16:49.10jonwilwith a new N900
16:49.16jonwilonce was for the USB
16:49.21jonwiland the other was for a busted flexboard
16:50.04SeabladeYea unfortunatly in the US with the single year warranty, otherwise I would have sent it back
16:50.14DocScrutinizerbusted flexboard normally gets repaired by swapping the flexboard
16:50.24jonwilin my case they seemed to replace it rather than repair
16:50.33jonwilor thats what the info I got from nokia indicated
16:50.53jonwilin the case of the busted USB they fixed it very quickly
16:51.16jonwiland just said that a busted USB = automatic replacement no matter what
16:51.39SeabladeYea busted USB hasn't hit me but that I am fairly confident in my abilities to resolder, Surface mount chips on the other hand not so confident
16:52.07jonwilSince that happened, I am now VERY careful with the N900 and if I have the charger plugged in, I make sure the phone is somewhere where its impossible for it to be knocked to the ground
16:52.11SeabladeI do a fair amount of sodlering, but the smallest I get is miniature plugs and jack typically for wireless mics and the like, this is a bit smaller;)
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16:54.19Seabladecontemplates using a toaster to remelt the existing solder as he doesn't have a hot air gun... probably a bad idea:)
16:54.37SeabladePS Don't let me interrupt the Elop bashing either for the record;)
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16:57.19loft306has used a toaster or a hotplate to reploadwhole boards... i but i wouldnt do it to it to my 900 if it hosed the usb port but thats just me
16:57.35loft306*refloat
16:57.56Seabladeloft306: Yea but in this case the USB port is fine, it is the GSM chip that is seemingly having problems
16:58.10loft306tet
16:58.13loft306heh
16:58.18Seabladeloft306: It actually worked for you?  Did you wrap in foil or anything?
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16:58.40loft306thot air gun? realy small one?
16:58.46loft306*hot
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16:58.56Seabladeloft306: Nah toaster is what I was referring to
16:59.04loft306i know
16:59.28Seabladeloft306: No hot air gun available to me at this time sadly
16:59.30loft306just thinking ot other ways to do it without refloating the whole thing
16:59.45lardmanhmm, that was a long day
16:59.49jonwilI know lots of people have used toasters and things to heat up and re-solder things like Xbox 360s and PS3s but I have never heard of it being done to something like a N900 before
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17:07.37lardmanany exciting new news today, I've spent all day by a windtunnel
17:07.39lardman?
17:07.51javispedrolardman: elop announcing a wp7 device
17:08.01lardmanjavispedro: I said exciting ;)
17:08.08RST38hlardman: Elop confirmed in an interview that N9 will be absolutely LAST Meego/Maemo device independently on its success
17:08.12javispedroeverytime I see him doing a move, the more I think he's a chessmaster and this is a trap
17:08.21lardmanRST38h: well that is rubbish
17:08.24RST38hlardman: And leaked WP device photos show basically an N9 with WP
17:08.32lardmanWP?
17:08.42lardmanWindows Phone?
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17:08.55MoonTigerlardman, thats what i thought too
17:10.29RST38hlardman: Also there is a nice fake letter from Sean Connery (circa 1989) telling Steve Jobs to fuck off with his advertising proposal
17:10.42lardman:)
17:10.59RST38hlardman: Not sure if it can soothe the Elop-caused disappointment though
17:11.09lardmanno, that's true
17:11.25lardmanI feel sorry for the people who are employed at Nokia doing Linuxy stuff though
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17:12.02GeneralAntillesInsanity
17:13.12hiemanshuwhich is why I made http://i.imgur.com/SVuh1.png
17:13.32javispedrohe's not insane
17:13.36javispedrothis is all a master plan
17:13.41javispedroand a big trap
17:14.47GeneralAntillesHe kinda sounds like Al Gore
17:14.57GeneralAntilles"I'm super serial. Turn off your cameras."
17:15.32RST38hGeneral: Sounds like a typical American idiot on a mission
17:15.52RST38hGeneral: The one defining feature is inability to listen
17:16.14lardmansounds like my mother in law ;)
17:16.24hiemanshuHe is obama of the Phone world
17:17.24fralshmm, did someone ping me? scrollback is a bit long
17:17.49SpeedEvilNot since you last spoke
17:17.54SpeedEvil(unless I was discoed)
17:18.02SpeedEvilOh
17:18.27fralsok, irssi claimed highlight but cant remember if i was on from proxy since
17:18.31SpeedEvilds3: the N900 screen does okay in sunlight GenralAntilles: The Nokians seem to think it does OK.  GenerlAntilles: We discussed it with frals earlier and he said he hasn't had any problems.
17:18.54kaarihi, anyone got work usb speakers with n900, just fixed n8 micro-usb2usb line to work with n900, and installed usb host to n900. Now i get it to turn speakers on, but no sound. Think its how to make sound to go through usb to speakers. Probaly not easy, but do you have any suggestions? Tried mplayer and other things, still hoping that someone have had it working.
17:19.13SeabladeHmm 3 Minutes in a toaster on high in aluminum foil.... lets see how my n900 does now;)
17:19.38fralsSpeedEvil: cheers
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17:19.44SpeedEvilfrals: Would you happen to have links to any n9/n950 pictures/pictures from said devices.
17:19.45GeneralAntillesLies
17:19.48GeneralAntillesI had nothing to do with that.
17:19.51kaariI'd would save my juhannus
17:20.09SpeedEvilis trying to update the wiki, and can't find any cc-by pics
17:21.32GeneralAntillesRST38h, except he's Canadian.
17:22.14javispedrohe's surely been bastardized by the year he spent at MS
17:22.53lardmanlong day, am going to head home
17:23.00nid0I still reckon it's all an evil plot by juniper to get into software and phones
17:23.02jonwilhmmm, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html is interesting reading
17:23.09lardmanwill try to catch you chaps tomorrow before another windtunnel stint
17:23.14lardmanhave a nice evening all!
17:23.16GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I'm pretty sure all Canadians come that way. *g*
17:23.19javispedrocya lardman !
17:23.30jonwilto see just how much of Harmattan is new and how much of it is updated versions of maemo packages
17:23.45Seabladewell 3 minutes is not enough, lets move on to 5
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17:26.03fralsSpeedEvil: sorry, n
17:26.09fralsno*
17:26.11SpeedEvilk
17:26.21javispedroevil mr.burn-looking canadians!
17:26.23SpeedEvilThanks.
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17:27.02frals(in a car heading for the bush so losing 3g all the time)
17:27.03DocScrutinizerkaari: you need the proper usb soundcard kernel driver
17:27.21Jaffafrals: You want to use SSH+screen+irssi and your N950's keyboard
17:28.16DocScrutinizerhi jonwil - long time no see
17:29.05jonwilStill using my N900, still havent had the time or inspiration to do any actual dev for it :)
17:29.33jonwilRight now I want to get Findmine working again, it wont work even after uninstalling it with package manager and reinstalling it
17:29.41jonwiland restarting the device several times
17:29.48kaariok Doc, tell newbie hot to go forward
17:30.01jonwiljust starts and then immediatley closes
17:30.14jonwilI wish I could find out why its closing
17:30.58kaarido i have to turn kenrnel myself
17:32.55GeneralAntilles1st round of community N950s go out next week.
17:33.00GeneralAntillesHopefully to the right people.
17:33.58fralsJaffa: i am, with horrible latency ;)
17:36.54SeabladeWell if nothing else I have successfully burnt off all the dust on the board somehow;)
17:37.22SeabladeWell not all, but seemingly a good amount, certainly looks cleaner anyways
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17:42.15jonwilYAY, my FindMine problem was a corrupted config file
17:42.18jonwilnow it works again :)
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17:49.44divan_How to install package from SDK repository into sysroot for using with Madde/QtCreator? (Fremantle)
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17:50.45divan_Some posts on tmo says there is no way to install packages into the sysroot. But don't really belive it.. how to develop apps which link to another libraries?
17:52.34gri_divan_: You can extract the .deb files yourself to the madde sysroot. Or use scratchbox sdk
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17:53.39divan_gri_, thanks..
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18:01.23MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, did qgil say that somewhere?
18:01.32GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, what, about the bluetooth keyboard support?
18:01.48GeneralAntilleshttp://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/#comment-2426
18:02.22lolcatGeneralAntilles: It sucks, no kb
18:02.34javispedroGeneralAntilles: you know that qgil might be very meaning "you pair a keyboard after hiring a hacker to implement missing support for it" ;)
18:03.16GeneralAntillesDoubt it.
18:03.20GeneralAntillesCould be, but doubt it.
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18:04.17MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, no, N950s going out next week
18:04.25GeneralAntillesOh
18:04.26GeneralAntillesYes.
18:04.30GeneralAntillesOn the MeeGo forum
18:04.33GeneralAntillesDon't feel like sourcing it.
18:04.37GeneralAntillesIn the N950 devkit thread.
18:04.52kaarikaari: you need the proper usb soundcard kernel driver. anyone no how to make this to happen?
18:04.53GeneralAntilles"So what could the N9 disrupt?  Well, so far it’s done a number on the MeeGo and Maemo communities, http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&authuser=0&source=hp&q=N9+site%3Atalk.maemo.org&pbx=1&oq=N9+site:talk.maemo.org&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=10583l12301l1l9l7l1l0l0l0l345l1406l0.3.2.1l6&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=47abf8ce1604813c&biw=1077&bih=606."
18:04.53javispedrofailed to find it =)
18:04.59GeneralAntilles--Texrat
18:05.08SeabladeOk 7 minutes and no change, I suppose keep moving up, but might not have time to right now
18:05.26MohammadAGhopes he gets a device :/
18:05.50MohammadAGPlanning to take the best of Fremantle and rewrite it in Harmattan's context
18:05.51GeneralAntilleshttp://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=22785&postcount=3
18:05.58javispedroMohammadAG: hum?
18:06.01MohammadAGsimple-brightness-applet would be the first thing in mind
18:06.10javispedroah, you mean the best community apps?
18:06.58javispedro"the best from fremantle " looks like if you want to port hildon ;)
18:07.07javispedrobut maybe that's because I'm still heavily biased =)
18:08.08javispedrothe meego forum thread about n9devkit also proves how little devices there are
18:08.36SeabladeSo I know this is going to be a loaded question, but is there likely to be another way other than the Maemo Community Program to get a hold of the n950?  I actually do some coding myself and wouldn't mind coding for Harmattan/Meego on a few things but my time is limited right now so I don't feel quite appropriate doing a loan style program like that
18:08.40javispedroyou see jaffa saying "hopefully oldtimers are considered" and a few posts after it someone saying "hopefully newbies will be considered"
18:09.09javispedroI bet we will see in the next hours oldtimers thanking jaffa's post and newcomers thanking that other guy's post =)
18:09.28MoonTigerSeablade, not currently afaik
18:09.45MoonTigerapparently there are only 250 of them on planet earth
18:10.02divan_gri_, simple extraction of deb package doesn't handle dependencies check on dpkg-buildpackage step :/ And mad dpkg -i seems not to work.
18:10.26javispedrodivan_: madde is designed for apps that crossbuild nicely, sbox is designed for the rest
18:10.33MohammadAGjavispedro, I'm no old timer but I thanked his post :p
18:10.40javispedroMohammadAG: you are an old timer by now
18:11.39javispedroreally :D
18:11.43divan_javispedro, yep, but what if I don't want to move to sbox only because I need one small package?
18:12.15SeabladeMoonTiger: A real shame to be honest
18:12.20javispedrodivan_: extract the package with dpkg -x, and make dpkg-buildpackage ignore build deps (see manpage)
18:12.36javispedrodivan_: but this only really works for very very small packages... if it has any scripts, or symlinks, or sth.... go sbox.
18:13.01MoonTigerSeablade, wel if you look at nokia's history it really shouldn't be a surprise that they manage to completely f**k up the child of the N900 too eh?
18:13.13divan_javispedro, ok, thanks.
18:13.40MoonTigeri mean i cant see how the N950 is any good for develping for the N9 anyways
18:13.51*** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106)
18:14.10jonwilif you want to develop for the N9, get a N9
18:14.14*** join/#maemo mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo)
18:14.23kaariSo, theres many people ready to code to meego, could you pass this problem to meego developers. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1000405
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18:16.51*** join/#maemo ab_ (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)
18:17.57divan_And of course, there is not way to change dpkg-buildpackage arguments within QtCreator. Erhh..
18:18.03SeabladeMoonTiger: True.  Personally I don't mind developing for them, but it is really the preference for the form factor that would make me want to get the 950, without a hardware keyboard the n9 has a large strike against it compared to the n900 for me, and in which case I may as well just stick with the n900
18:18.05divan_s:not way:no way:
18:18.26MoonTigerSeablade, im sticking with my N900 as well
18:18.33jonwilas am I
18:18.33kaarisame for me, if cannot get n950
18:18.54MoonTigerif a N950 type device did launch with comparable specs to the N9 plus a hardware keyboard i would buy one
18:19.03SeabladeMoonTiger: My only thing is I have been holding off on replacing the n900 I am trying to fix till they announced the n950, and now that they did and that noone is going to be able to get it it means I gotta make a decision sadly
18:19.42MoonTigerN900s are cheaper these days
18:19.47MoonTigerbut i hear you
18:20.02MoonTigeri think this is actually part of the plan to kill of maemo from nokia
18:20.11SeabladeMoonTiger: Cheaper yes, but $350 for a used one when I am trying to close on a house is VERY tough
18:20.13MoonTigerto completely fragment and fracture the community
18:20.30SeabladeMoonTiger: While I am not accepting that yet, I am not counting it out either
18:20.39ShadowJKkaari: you'd be better off linking a post with patch instead of binary kernel modules that don't show what changes have been made and dont work on meego
18:21.00MoonTigerSeablade, i got one in as-new condition from the US recently
18:21.04MoonTigerfor $300
18:21.10MoonTigerroughly 200 GBP
18:21.58SeabladeMoonTiger: Yea, I can get them in good condition used from Amazon, which is probably what I will have to do as I can cash in credit card rewards to cut down the price significantly... of course if the decision comes down to new phone or working fridge in the house I am buying, guess which one I am choosing:)
18:22.15MoonTigerheh yah i hear you
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18:25.04rm_work<MohammadAG> simple-brightness-applet would be the first thing in mind
18:25.06MoonTigerwhats wrong with your N900 btw?
18:25.13rm_workMohammadAG: well, I'm doing ABL
18:25.17rm_workso there's that :P
18:25.28SeabladeMoonTiger: The fun Communication Error, reboot device, never use it as a cell phone again
18:25.30rm_worknot to discourage competition though, as they have two very different audiences
18:25.43MoonTigerdont know that one ... what causes it?
18:26.08SeabladeMoonTiger: Most commonly seems to be a hardware failure, a broken connection somewhere
18:26.15MoonTigersighs
18:26.18MoonTigerthat sux
18:26.27SeabladeMoonTiger: But apparently from some people is is software, just not for most and not for me
18:26.47DocScrutinizer51pff, who needs fridge
18:26.50MoonTigeri had (still do in fact) an N810 and that was fun
18:27.03rm_workSeablade: yeah, I know what you mean about having to choose between a commonly used household appliance and a flashy phone :( but i'm sure your family will get used to using only dried or freshly bought foods
18:27.04MoonTigercould always bluetooth for a GSM connection
18:27.18rm_workDocscrutinizer: ^^
18:27.18MoonTigerrm_work, lol
18:27.28SeabladeMoonTiger: I sitll have my n700 and n800, just came across both the other day as we pack:)
18:27.44SeabladeMoonTiger: My wife's n900 still works fine as well, just mine has died
18:27.49MoonTigeryah i want to build a beowulf cluster with my spare devices one day
18:28.13MoonTigerrunning a modified haiku os
18:28.16MoonTiger:)
18:28.34SeabladeActually I am seriously considering whether I want to build a small app to do home automation through an ISYS Insteon/X10 programmable module
18:28.44SeabladeBoth the n700 and n800 would be great for it
18:29.33MoonTigerwelp gotta go... festival here and beach parties happening tonight with fires on the beaches and fireworks etc
18:30.17SeabladeMoonTiger: Have fun
18:30.22MoonTiger:) thnx
18:31.10DocScrutinizer51MoonTiger: (beowulf) we cdonsidered that at OM for the remaining few thousand FR that never will sell
18:31.13SeabladeGotta go set a stage for rehearsal myself, then back to do a 10 minute bake in a toaster to see if that fixes this...
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18:31.58GeneralAntillesSo, first thing we need to do is a shortcut swipe to the app switch
18:32.00GeneralAntilleser
18:32.05GeneralAntillesor maybe a shortcut swipe to the last application
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18:32.44X-FadeGeneralAntilles: There is already that.
18:33.02GeneralAntillesOh?
18:33.03X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Swipe to the right -> open apps.
18:33.16X-FadeEhm from right to left.
18:33.33X-FadeAnd last used app is on top.
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18:33.45GeneralAntillesNeed one for a quick alt-tab kinda thing.
18:34.05X-FadeWell, that is just swipe, click on the app :)
18:34.39ShadowJKOne for "open new browser window" and immediately switch to something else while waiting for page to load
18:35.28ShadowJKmaybe there's "Open link in background", but i have doubts they'd add any useful features..
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18:43.24bistongood morning, can somebody please have a look at this -> http://stirkbin.com/b11148
18:43.38bistoni'm getting high cpu activity regularly even when i'm not using the phone
18:44.11bistonand when i receive an sms/email and i click on the bottom left corner to skip the message, the phone takes about 2 minutes to clear that message and mark it as read
18:44.14cehtehgreetings from trackerd
18:44.22bistonis this happening with anybody else?
18:44.55andre__biston, lots of images on the device?
18:45.22bistonyea, lots of thumbnails that got placed there from apps i guess
18:45.49bistoncould that be the only problem causing all this?
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18:47.59bistondbus-daemon is used by top ?
18:48.43cehtehnope
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18:50.55bistoni just cleared about 3000 pics
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18:59.12merlin1991n900 camera automatic doing stuff: http://imagebin.org/159671
18:59.19merlin1991check the traffic lights, lol
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19:03.43nox-a blueish green...
19:05.22merlin1991nox-:  yeah
19:05.42merlin1991currently theres heavy clouds outside and everyhting is in a rather brow light
19:05.49merlin1991like you'd get with old movies
19:05.53merlin1991kinda
19:06.11*** join/#maemo dangergrrl (~ariana@m852836d0.tmodns.net)
19:06.17merlin1991but no I can't capture the awseome moment, somethings filters it to a "normal" pic :/
19:07.01merlin1991s/brow/brown/
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19:14.43kaariShadowJK: didnt you read the thread, it concern both maemo and meego. For me is it to make boot from n900 to meego using uboot. what i read, its problem with some mmc cards anfd needs fix kernel module?
19:16.10ShadowJKkaari, I just pasted this in the meego-arm channel, and the reply was "If you're seeing a bug, please make a bugreport"
19:16.34ShadowJKI don't have a class 10 card though, so I can't test MeeGo on class 10.
19:18.14kaarijeps, i try it. already sing-up to meego community, but kind of newbie to make bugreport. but i will try. this concern too maemo.
19:18.48ShadowJKThere will be no official fix for Maemo.
19:19.07kaariwith my class 4 card everythings works fine, but with class10 i get read-only state. starnge
19:19.35kaaridont need
19:20.47kaarijeps, i should be in meego irc channel to tell it, infact im. but first time they didnt really take me serious.
19:21.08ShadowJKWhat brand is your card?
19:21.17kaarikingston
19:21.29ShadowJKah.
19:21.49kaariand have been contcact with support and used several tools for the card
19:22.02kaarithe card is working
19:22.14ShadowJKkingston cards are broken by design :-)
19:22.36ShadowJKand pretty random. Not even kingston themselves know what components were used
19:22.40ShadowJKthey no own factories
19:22.50kaariand maybe, but it works everyother things nut not booting meego on n900
19:23.10kaariand i think i found the answer
19:24.31kaariand if you read the trhread its some guy from texas instruments who make solution
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19:25.54kaarii paid 100 euros for the card, thats sad
19:26.01kpomanhello !
19:26.31ShadowJKwtf!
19:26.34ShadowJKbig card?
19:26.45kaari16 g
19:26.50kpomancan someone help me bit with a noob thing ? I see there is a chromium package. however a search (apt-cache search chromium) doesnt give anything. why is that ??? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/chromium/5.0.369.2-maemo2/
19:27.00kaarisomthing like 5 months ago
19:27.31kaariis there chromium for maemo?
19:27.40kpomanyep, quite old
19:27.56kaarithen use opera :(
19:28.21kpomankaari: I wanna try chromium. I am quite impressed right now with it
19:28.31kpomanI used to use firefox, but on n900 it sucks.
19:28.53kpomanand now on desktop, also, chromium is much faster than ff
19:29.01kaaridont you like default webbrowser
19:29.03kpomanand version 5 of ff is not cool
19:29.05nox-merlin1991, i guess the n900 camera app doesnt allow for manual white balancing?
19:29.05ShadowJKuses opera on n900
19:29.11kpomanmicrob ? not much
19:29.16kpomanit is good yes
19:29.24merlin1991nox-: it does but for some reason that didn't work out either
19:29.28kpomanbut chromium must be better :p
19:29.41kpomanat least on android chromium rocks
19:29.43kaariits best for almost all, but then i use opere also
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19:29.54nox-merlin1991, :/
19:30.16kpomankaari: the question is, why http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/chromium/5.0.369.2-maemo2/ doesnt show here ?
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19:30.47cehtehShadowJK: you put your charge script offline? :)
19:31.03ShadowJKdid I?
19:31.21kaarioko, maybe i test it
19:31.23cehtehmaybe i pasted a wrong url got 404
19:31.38cehtehbut well i had it here already and running it now
19:31.56ShadowJKcharge21.sh.txt ?
19:32.04cehtehlets see if i improve it maybe rewrite it in C
19:32.27cehtehah works .. i tried without .txt
19:32.41jacekowskikpoman: copyright claims
19:32.50jacekowskikpoman: it's in my onw repository
19:32.56kpomanjacekowski: oh ! do you know where to get it ?
19:32.58kaaribut micrb does it fot me, and wht i lags  i uose opera. but now im installning chromium. maybe you could get iron browser to turn they code to arm
19:33.04kpomanjacekowski: how do I add it ? is it a new version ?
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19:33.16jacekowskikpoman: no it's same old version
19:33.21cehtehShadowJK: eventually i am thinking to backoff the charge current when charge stop because of insufficient voltage and then restart charging
19:33.28kpomanjacekowski: newer one doesnt compile ?
19:33.35jacekowskikpoman: since opera was released i stopped all work on chromium
19:33.50cehtehand run as realtime process
19:33.54jacekowskikpoman: opera is much better
19:34.06kpomanjacekowski: it is good yes
19:34.18kpomanjacekowski: do you have other stuff on your repo ?
19:34.23jacekowskikpoman: but if you want to try it, deb http://maemo.jacekowski.org/ fremantle free non-free
19:34.40kpomanjacekowski: where do I add that line ?
19:34.47cehtehalso integrating dbus messages as bme does and configureable low level battery warning
19:34.54cehtehbut no time now
19:34.58ShadowJKcehteh, actually haven't had any single event where not being realtime has had an impact :-)
19:35.02jacekowskikpoman: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
19:35.07kpomanjacekowski: let me see
19:35.11jacekowskikpoman: create file in that folder
19:35.15jacekowskikpoman: and add that line there
19:35.17ShadowJKOn N8x0 it would be dangerous, because without software control the hardware runs amok
19:35.30cehtehShadowJK: yes its more a gimmick .. under extreme load it may save you from not pinging the watchdog
19:35.40kpomanjacekowski: ok cool
19:35.50jacekowskikpoman: only other program in that repository is program reseting lock code to 12345
19:35.52ShadowJKYeah it's never missed a ping so far
19:35.53cehtehit sleeps most of the time so there is no danger
19:36.01jacekowskikpoman: if you forget it
19:36.06ShadowJKprobably because it's tiny :P
19:36.10cehtehwell tried it under real extreme load with much things swapped out?
19:36.12ShadowJKand busybox is tiny too :)
19:36.28ShadowJKbeen up to about 400M swap use
19:36.32cehtehprolly the device already prioritizes root processes with cgroups .. but better safe than sorry
19:36.43jacekowskicehteh: no it doesnt
19:36.45ShadowJKmostly other maemo kernel bugs kill the device first though
19:36.55cehtehhuh you have /bin/bash on top not busybox
19:36.56kaariNobody, knows how to get touch in with n950, like James Bond
19:36.57kpomanjacekowski: ok !
19:36.58jacekowskicehteh: i don't think there is support for cgroups in stock kernel
19:37.10ShadowJKthere is
19:37.13ShadowJK/syspart
19:37.17cehtehjacekowski: iirc ohmd uses cgroups
19:37.20kpomanjacekowski: do you know of the most complete list of repos ?
19:37.27jacekowskikpoman: nope
19:37.27kpomanfor example I had missed that one yours
19:37.38cehteh(or whats the profile watching thing)
19:37.55kpomannp
19:37.56cehtehthe thing which uses prolog under the hood to tune the device
19:38.04ShadowJKohmd
19:38.13cehtehyes
19:38.21kpomanjacekowski: did you have many steps for compiling it ? apart from the scratchbox
19:38.22cehtehso that uses cgroups
19:39.38cehtehShadowJK: if you want we can make a list of 'todo' someday for what a better bme needs apart from the charger control (dbus messages etc)
19:39.41jacekowskikpoman: quite a bit
19:39.48cehtehmaybe DocScrutinizer will be there then
19:39.49jacekowskikpoman: lot of stuff there was arm unfriendly
19:39.58DocScrutinizereh?
19:40.05jacekowskikpoman: like js JUT
19:40.05kpomanjacekowski: oh but even if it is available also for android ?
19:40.11jacekowskiJIT*
19:40.15cehtehhaha waekup call
19:40.20DocScrutinizercehteh: you summoned me?
19:40.21ShadowJKbq27200.sh needs to be turned into C and/with a gui.. :P
19:40.37jacekowskikpoman: there is no chrome for android
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19:40.53kpomanoh ?
19:40.59cehtehDocScrutinizer: i am thinking (slow brainstorming) what better bme (charge21.sh maybe rewritten in C) would need
19:41.08kpomantheir browser isnt crhome ?
19:41.10jacekowskikpoman: no
19:41.17kpomanah didnt know that
19:41.20jacekowskikpoman: it is something else
19:41.24DocScrutinizercehteh: an API in /sys
19:41.24kpomanok
19:41.29cehtehsee backlog .. most notably generating bme compatible dbus message, but having more freedom for configuration
19:41.36DocScrutinizerhttps://lkml.org/lkml/2011/2/28/494
19:41.40cehtehDocScrutinizer: no kernel changes :P
19:41.53DocScrutinizerthen forget it
19:41.58jacekowskikpoman: i'm not even sure it's webkit based
19:42.19cehtehDocScrutinizer: well i want to have it useable on stock kernel too
19:42.35cehtehand i dont have the time and a spare device to burn :)
19:42.43jacekowskikpoman: only work i've done on maemo port of it was to make it compile and work, and then fix some most serious bugs
19:43.09DocScrutinizerwell then you need a kernel module working on stock kernel, that you can load for supporting proper battery anagement, and rmmod for using old bme crap
19:43.17kpomanjacekowski: ok...
19:43.36jacekowskikpoman: but N900 is bit low on memory for anything like that
19:43.40cehtehDocScrutinizer: yeah may work .. but then kernel development is more pita than userland
19:43.52DocScrutinizercehteh: I'm happy to help out with auditing and specs
19:44.00cehtehand it still needs a userland daemon for the events
19:44.09DocScrutinizeryes
19:44.17DocScrutinizerthat's be a good design
19:44.33cehtehi am pragmatic here :)
19:44.34kpomanjacekowski: do you think it would be interesting to re-port it now that it is so fast ? :p
19:44.52cehtehi just thinking about adding the missing bits to charge21.sh
19:45.01jacekowskikpoman: opera is faster
19:45.09jacekowskikpoman: and chrome uses now even more memory
19:45.19jacekowskikpoman: and that is major problem on n900
19:45.19DocScrutinizerpragmatic? the forget about it, it's not worth the effort, if you want to do botch that can't go next rev even, not to mention upstream
19:45.19kpomankpoman: ok :s
19:45.28jacekowskikpoman: on n9 it may work
19:45.49jacekowskikpoman: but it's not released yet
19:45.50cehtehhas the n9 n950 the same bme crap?
19:46.02jacekowskidunno yet
19:46.03jacekowskipossibly
19:46.08cehtehi mean, i dont care for upstream i want something working for me now
19:46.13jacekowskibme was with us for few years
19:46.21jacekowskiBME has it's roots in rapuyama
19:46.23DocScrutinizercehteh: probably yes
19:46.51cehtehis the n9 kernel completely open?
19:46.57cehtehno one knows :P
19:47.24cehtehwould be awesome if its even a vanilla kernel .. but *cough* .. i have high doubts
19:47.30DocScrutinizerI'd think it's completely open as usual
19:47.52cehtehhaha and lets see how old it will be .. 2.6.32? ...
19:48.05DocScrutinizerwe had no closed kernel bits on fremantle either
19:48.18DocScrutinizeryep, exactly
19:48.25DocScrutinizer2.6.32 I heard
19:48.31cehtehthe n8xx kernels and before had some closed parts people told me
19:48.56DocScrutinizernot in kernel, not for fremantle
19:49.16DocScrutinizerthey managed to implement all the blobs in userland
19:49.16cehtehnot freemantle but before
19:49.29jacekowskicehteh: 2.6.32 is good version
19:49.41DocScrutinizerand there are quite a few blobs still
19:49.45cehteh.28 was good too
19:49.57cehtehbut dated :) as .32 will be when the device comes out
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19:50.15DocScrutinizeradores dated kernels
19:50.31cehtehwell doesnt it use btrfs?
19:50.40cehtehbtrfs isnt even in 3.0 stable
19:50.40jacekowskicehteh: older kernels tend to be faster
19:50.41DocScrutinizeryou finally got to know each sysfs path by heart, etc etc
19:50.44*** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm)
19:51.23*** join/#maemo onen|openBmap (~quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
19:51.34DocScrutinizera properly maintaned aged kernel is way better than bleeding edge
19:51.40cehtehyes
19:51.42*** join/#maemo xkr47 (xkr47@2001:14b8:141:5926:5358:9793:2384:6264)
19:51.59cehtehbut .. well .. some things eventually improve in newer kernels
19:52.06DocScrutinizeryep
19:52.31DocScrutinizerrarely seen anything *essetial* though, esp nothing that couldn't get backported
19:52.32cehtehand with this devices and nokias politics there is no much an kernel upgrade path
19:52.58cehtehbackporting things over about 10 kernel versions would be pita
19:53.28DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter. What really sucks is when your userland blows chunks on the new stuff
19:53.36cehtehyes
19:54.09DocScrutinizerI know boxes that happily run 4 year old kernels
19:54.16cehtehmy server :P
19:54.32cehtehruns
19:55.19DocScrutinizerit's not like kernels actually bitrot, you just have to keep them up to date with current threats
19:55.27DocScrutinizerand patches to fix those
19:56.46DocScrutinizeryou're starting to be screwed when you want to install acme-app-Vtomorow++ which uses all that ultra new cute stuff
19:57.26*** join/#maemo ric31 (~ric31@bal31-2-82-241-246-108.fbx.proxad.net)
19:57.33ric31hello
19:57.47ric31i need your help
19:58.33ric31i am connect to my N900 via ssh from ubuntu pc
19:58.49ric31and i would like save my ohone contact
19:59.08ric31but i don t know where is repertory or file
19:59.19ric31can you help me
19:59.26DocScrutinizerexport to vcard
19:59.27kaarimake backup
19:59.59DocScrutinizercontacts app GUI -> menu -> export
20:00.03ric31yes but i would like keep on the pc
20:00.07*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)
20:00.19ric31ok i try thanks
20:00.28DocScrutinizerdunno how to export to vcard via PC, maybe use vnc? ;-D
20:01.39DocScrutinizerof course you also can copy the contacts.db file, but that's hard to read out on your PC I guess
20:01.52DocScrutinizeryou could copy it back any time though
20:02.15newbie007what is the format of the file?
20:02.24newbie007sqlite?
20:02.42*** join/#maemo Atarii (~Atarii@77.107.156.213)
20:03.07kpomanjacekowski: ok, I tested it. it is really good port !
20:03.12DocScrutinizerberkley afaik
20:03.13*** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B49552.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:03.17kpomanjacekowski: sad you discontinued it
20:03.31kpomanjacekowski: because it works great, fast scroll, youtube, javascript, etc...
20:03.33*** join/#maemo I-C-Wiener (~quassel@h84253.upc-h.chello.nl)
20:04.20ric31ok i have save my contact in file name.vcf
20:04.24jacekowskikpoman: opera is better
20:04.43ric31how can you reinstall after
20:04.47ric31on N900
20:05.59DocScrutinizerimport :-)
20:06.24ric31i haven't import choice in menu
20:07.11ric31ok sorry i find it
20:07.14ric31thanhs
20:07.17DocScrutinizerget contacts
20:07.18ric31thanks
20:07.21ric31ok
20:07.29ric31thanks doc
20:07.34DocScrutinizeryw
20:08.11*** part/#maemo kaari (~kaari@KMCCCLXXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
20:08.12Corsachmhm, is tmo not supposed to have https?
20:08.15kpomanjacekowski: do you have youtube wokring on it ?
20:08.29kpomanopera I meant
20:08.30jacekowskikpoman: i don't watch youtube
20:08.38kpomanjacekowski: oh ok
20:08.52jacekowskinot on phone
20:08.56jacekowskiit takes too long to load
20:09.12jacekowskiand if i'm in wifi range i can use laptop
20:10.59kpomanjacekowski: ok, it complains about unsupported rtsp
20:11.13DocScrutinizerCorsac: are you MAD? this crap transmitted on a secured connection? WTF?
20:11.27DocScrutinizer;-D
20:11.37*** join/#maemo waite (~quassel@206.83.81.178.ptr.us.xo.net)
20:12.11nid0Corsac: maemo.org has ssl, tmo doesnt
20:13.14*** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@a91-155-185-5.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
20:13.14*** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa)
20:13.37nid0that said, ssl on maemo.org's hard to use because whoever set midgard up set everything with hard links
20:14.43RST38hSoooo
20:14.48RST38hAnything I missed/
20:14.49RST38h?
20:14.53Corsacnid0: crap
20:16.03nid0not enough's ssl secured tbh
20:24.07*** join/#maemo wazd (~Andrew@178.140.185.126)
20:24.12*** join/#maemo flat` (flat@juhlamoka.fi)
20:24.21wazdwoo
20:24.34wazdJust came from Linkin Park concert in Moscow :)
20:27.43*** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@88.87.48.55)
20:27.51RST38hheya wazd
20:28.51JaffaX-Fade: lardman|gone : Just realised the http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS doesn't talk *at all* about the build plans/targets.
20:30.40ric31hello
20:30.47ric31i come back
20:31.05ric31where are location of video
20:31.06X-FadeJaffa: Obviously needs some more info.
20:31.27JaffaX-Fade: Aye. Was it covered yesterday? If not, I'll try and flesh it out tonight
20:31.44ric31video that i take with n900
20:32.23ric31i would like save it
20:36.33hiemanshunid0: use noscript and force ssl
20:37.34ric31do you know where is the repertory of video on N900
20:38.08ric31i would like to save it via ssh
20:38.16ric31on my pc
20:38.22ric31under ubuntu
20:40.18hiemanshuric31: in /home/user/MyDocs
20:43.01ric31i can find video on it
20:43.12ric31it s strange
20:43.24ric31and i can see via the appli
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20:45.19*** join/#maemo NGNUton-B (~gnuton@80-186-220-216.elisa-mobile.fi)
20:45.33RST38hFun,pure fun: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26921/
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20:54.37rm_workric31: it's in a hidden folder
20:54.45rm_workric31: ls -la /home/user/MyDocs
20:54.53rm_workit's like... /home/user/MyDocs/.video/
20:55.36rm_workjacekowski: there's opera for n900 now?
20:56.38*** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@88.87.48.55)
20:57.30jacekowskirm_work: yes
20:57.38jacekowskirm_work: for like a year or so
20:57.48*** join/#maemo mer_ge (~martin@chello062178156192.9.14.tuwien.teleweb.at)
20:57.48rm_worklol
20:57.53rm_workhow did I not know that?
20:58.12rm_worki was a huge fan of opera before, and was very disappointed when it went away
20:58.13jacekowskihttp://get.opera.com/pub/.custom/campaign/labs/maemo/20100510/opera.install
20:58.13rm_workerrr
20:58.26rm_workk
20:58.27rm_workcool
20:58.43rm_workok, so, old, but works great i assume? :P
20:58.47*** join/#maemo Metallikettu (~metallike@91-157-16-143.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
20:58.48jacekowskiyes
20:59.33mrsellout<PROTECTED>
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21:01.31ric31rm_work> thanks there is only one video on/home/user/MyDocs/.video
21:01.50*** join/#maemo jimmy1980 (~jimmy@112.224.2.14)
21:02.14ric31and not my all video i take
21:02.24rm_workric31: do you have a microSD card?
21:02.33rm_workric31: it will often default to the microSD card
21:03.05rm_workin which case, I am not 100% sure where it goes on there, but a quick browse (and make sure to check for hidden folders) should help
21:03.54ric31no
21:04.19ric31i see there is a lot file bebin by dot
21:04.38ric31begin
21:04.52ric31i am looking in
21:05.20*** join/#maemo GuySoft (~guysoft@109.226.25.84)
21:05.34piggzafter all the fuss about the n9 score on html5test.com, i just realised my n900 beats it anyway :)
21:05.46rm_worklol what piggz?
21:06.20piggzrm_work: 262 + 9 bonus (meego 1.2 ce with firefox ;)
21:06.52rm_workpiggz: but what fuss about n9 score?
21:07.19*** join/#maemo c2pLaY (~yep@S01060026f3c71ae8.cg.shawcable.net)
21:07.19*** join/#maemo c2pLaY (~yep@unaffiliated/c2play)
21:07.38Seabladewazd: Funny side topic... I just came from here.... http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/06/21/photos-u2-preparations-in-baltimore.html
21:07.51Seabladewazd: Specifically went straight from that job to my full time work
21:07.52piggzppl saying it is a good score i think
21:07.54Seablade;)
21:08.10rm_workpiggz: ah i see it, 257 + 14?
21:08.31piggzy
21:08.33rm_workyeah that is pretty good for mobile browsers :P but yeah. n900 was just fine there too
21:09.46rm_workjacekowski: wow this seems slick. man, i always loved opera :P
21:10.13*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B367144.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:11.05*** join/#maemo ver (~ver@fox.foxmoxie.org)
21:11.16mer_gemaemo scores 271+9 on html5test.com nice :)
21:11.26*** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28)
21:11.31mer_gefirefox on maemo
21:11.45mer_gedoes anyone use wifi-switcher?
21:12.47Seabladehmm 10 minutes in a toaster, and the n900 still turns on amazingly, but sadly no improvement in cell problems, so I now have an internet tablet it seems.  I don't think I should try longer than 10 minutes though as I am already beginning to smell things I shouldn't be I don't think
21:13.11VenemoSeablade, wut?
21:13.47SeabladeVenemo: Ongoing report from earlier, short version I am having communications error, reboot device, etc. that means I can't talk to cellular networks with my n900 anymore
21:14.11SeabladeVenemo: Been trying to reflow the solder with a toaster, but if it has happened there hasn't been any difference
21:14.17VenemoSeablade, why don't you just take it to warranty repair?
21:14.36ric31how do you do to backup video from n900 to pc linux
21:14.38nox-then he'll get an n8 back...
21:14.45SeabladeVenemo: Because I am in the US, bought one of the first batches, and due to a 1 year warranty over here it is well out of warranty
21:15.03VenemoSeablade, ah. unlucky :(
21:15.48nox-Venemo, someone said they're out of spare parts and now send ppl other phones back like n8.s
21:16.00VenemoLoooL
21:16.09Venemowhat the heck should I do with an N8?
21:16.15nox-right :)
21:16.19*** join/#maemo flailingmonkey (~quassel@static-98-140-86-94.dsl.cavtel.net)
21:16.21VenemoN8 is not a mobile computer
21:16.59lcukVenemo, it is a mobile Qt platform though
21:17.05lcukruns your app well?
21:17.32lcukthere is something wrong with your qt if it does not want to work there?
21:17.49lcukoh Venemo, it is also multitouch
21:17.54Venemoyes, my app runs on the N8 in a not-so-bad manner
21:18.17Venemohowever, the philosophy of the N900 feels closer to my heart than the philosophy of the N8
21:18.48lcukgood stuff
21:19.39mer_geis maemo6 on the N9 also such a nice integrated SIP/jabber phone btw?
21:20.11Venemomer_ge, yes as far as I saw it
21:21.39mer_geis there _any_ other phone out there except of maemos that do that? me doubting
21:21.40*** join/#maemo Smily (~Smily@89.142.223.181)
21:25.28MohammadAGyes it integrates shit
21:25.51mer_genice! that's SO underrated imo
21:26.23SeabladeWould be nice if it integrated into Google's services a bit better IMO, but that isn't to say I dislike the integration that is in the n900
21:26.39*** join/#maemo ver (~ver@fox.foxmoxie.org)
21:26.46jacekowskiwhat about fmtx on n9?
21:26.48jacekowskiany info on that
21:26.52jacekowskiis it there or not?
21:26.59flailingmonkeypretty likely not
21:27.22JaffaNokians have said h/w is on the wifi/BT chip as on N900
21:27.26SeabladeI thought I saw the hardware is there, but like Maemo5 the software is not, but I could easily be passing along false information
21:27.29VenemoI think there is one, but I'm not sure
21:27.32JaffaBut whether or not you can make it work is up to external softwar
21:27.44*** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@89.142.223.181)
21:27.53jacekowskiJaffa: that's not a problem
21:28.03jacekowskiJaffa: is it same chip?
21:28.06jacekowskiJaffa: or something else?
21:28.11*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@46.42.99.196)
21:28.17jacekowskiand NDAs will be a problem?
21:28.30Jaffajacekowski: I *think* I read same chip; but ICBW
21:28.46jacekowskiand when is it going to be released?
21:28.54SpeedEvilSeablade: It's not only the chip
21:29.20SpeedEvilSeablade: It will also depend on if the antenna matching components are there. If it's not - there is no hope.
21:29.39SpeedEviloh - for tx - the antenna ratehr
21:29.47jacekowskiwell, if you only need 10cm or so you only need piece of copper connected to chip
21:29.48SeabladeSpeedEvil: Define antenna matching components for me...?
21:30.17jacekowskiSeablade: few inductors and few capacitors
21:30.26jacekowskito make transmission happen
21:31.11Seabladejacekowski: Oh ok, so the RF transmission front end that connects to the antenna itself, yes I would consider that to be a necessary part of the hardware
21:32.02jacekowskibut 1G of ram is amazing
21:32.09jacekowskiand 64G of flash
21:32.20SeabladeOf course I consider the FMTX nice and use it often in my car, I am not personally on the line of it needs to be there, I owuld be happy using A2DP as well
21:32.34jacekowskiSeablade: my radio can't do a2dp
21:32.43Seabladejacekowski: Neither can mine
21:32.47jacekowskiexactly
21:33.07Seabladejacekowski: Thus why I use FMTX already on my n900, but worst case scneario I owuld hook a bluetooth receiver up to it
21:33.33jacekowskibt uses more power
21:33.46Seabladejacekowski: Then again playing with sound is my passion and my life.  I make my living from it.  I can understand that not everyone wants to do the same
21:33.59JaffaOooh, I want my next car radio to have Bluetooth & NFC :)
21:34.17JaffaThere's that Bluetooth standard which is better audio quality than A2DP; which it seems the N9 supports
21:34.19Venemobye-bye
21:34.26cehtehanyone ever tried to transfer data with FMTX? AX.25 or so? :)
21:34.39Seabladejacekowski: Possibly yes, not something I Know off hand, but I am not to worried about the power differential myself, worst case just get a USB car charger
21:35.03SeabladeJaffa: I would be curious on both standards, got links to info on them?
21:35.03jacekowskiand palm pre style charging
21:35.07jacekowskicontactless
21:35.49SeabladeJaffa: I have often wondered what A2DP actually supported, obviously not something I use a whole lot, even given my profession as it isn't reliable enough for me to use professionally
21:35.52cehtehand for fast charge put it on our induction stove :P
21:36.32jacekowskicompatibility with that wouldn't be bad feature
21:36.44*** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@host90-229-static.89-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it)
21:37.05JaffaSeablade:  http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/nokia-steps-it-up-a-gear-with-new-accessories/ - scroll down to see the MD-310
21:37.12JaffaSeablade: APT-X is the alternative
21:37.37mer_ge[offtopic] I think soon there'd be no need to integrate Gtalk anymore at all as it becomes standard jabber-jingle http://www.zool.dk/?p=118
21:37.52cehtehjacekowski: the induction stove?
21:37.57cehtehi wont try it :)
21:38.19SeabladeJaffa: Yea, I couldn't care less about their hardware, it is almost a guarantee it won't be what I want, looking up the protocol now
21:38.23cehtehi mean pumping 3.5KW into the tiny device .. what can possibly go wrong? :)
21:39.42petterimer_ge: n9(00) might not be happy about that: http://blog.barisione.org/2011-06/broken-gtalk-calls
21:40.19barisionepetteri, mer_ge: the N9 is fine
21:40.33Seablademer_ge: I still want for a google voice call to ring my n900, which I believe is outside of the standard Jingle specs from my experience, but haven't looked into it to much yet.  All I Know is it doesn't work on the n900 currently:)
21:40.39petteribarisione: nice to hear
21:40.57Seablademer_ge: That should be, Google Voice Call forwarded to Google Talk, should ring my cell phone, it currently doesn't
21:41.01barisionepetteri: we already released and integrate the fix for Harmattan
21:41.30barisioneSeablade: how does google voice calls work exactly?
21:41.49mer_gebarisione it's sip I think
21:41.57Seablademer_ge: No
21:42.05mer_gek
21:42.06SeabladeGoogle Voice itself does not make calls.  It only forwards calls
21:42.39SeabladeBut it can forward calls to Google Talk, which can make and receive calls via Jabber/Jingle.  Yet for some reason on the n900 when doing this it won't ring the n900
21:42.56flailingmonkeyjabber != sip
21:43.08rm_workJaffa: my car has A2DP built in, it is awesome
21:43.20barisioneI work on gabble (so XMPP for both GTalk and Facebook), but others maintains the call bits
21:43.21flailingmonkey*?
21:43.27barisioneso I don't know much about it :)
21:43.31SeabladeGoogle Voice can also forward calls to any landline which is how I am currently using it, forwarding to a skype number which I get on my n900 since it's cell phone doesn't work
21:43.40rm_workJaffa: when I turn on my car it auto-pairs to n900 and does calls over the radio / builtin mic, and plays music otherwise :P
21:43.49rm_worknever take my phone out of my pocket
21:44.20lcukrm_work, we don't have a problem with bluetooth cars
21:44.27rm_worklol yeah
21:44.35lcukits the fact you wear stocking and suspenders to "turn your car on"
21:44.53rm_workrofl
21:45.00SeabladeJaffa: Based off what I am seeing on APT-X it is still unsuitable for professional uses, despite what Wikipedia may say:)  But that being said I would still want to see side by side between it and A2DP to see the difference, if they are even comparable
21:45.58mer_geI don't really get it. Google changed the jingle standard now? Will this affect any non-google calls in any way?
21:46.52flailingmonkeymer_ge: i'm pretty sure that google did something non-standard before, and are now moving to using jingle. is that right?
21:46.54Seablademer_ge: Google didn't change the Jingle standard, what Google is doing with Voice integration is either outside of the Jingle protocol extension, or is something not yet implemented by the n900
21:47.02*** join/#maemo perlite_ (~perlite@111-240-175-46.dynamic.hinet.net)
21:47.13SeabladeIIRC Google was involved in the development of Jingle but again this is something that I may be wrong on
21:47.56mer_geyes, google develped jingle but used their own dialekt of it
21:48.34mer_genow they seem to merge
21:49.11mer_geand I thought that'd resolve any remaining little issue there might be anywhere :)
21:51.11mer_gebut I get confused by this issue. and I don't use google, but you can log in to your google account using a non-gtalk client as well. and make calls over jingle right?
21:51.12*** join/#maemo Hurrian (~kenneth@121.54.2.104)
21:51.27mer_gethe client decided (I thought)
21:52.11Seablademer_ge: Yes you can, thus why the n900 can make calls over google talk
21:52.37Seablade-> out(FinishStageSet)
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21:54.47mer_gethanks all! of what I read, everything seem to evolve nicely :)
21:54.54mer_gebye
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22:26.32Hurrianugh, rootfs.lzo file structure is ODD.
22:27.14Hurrianthere's no ext4 header, it starts off immediately with the FS label
22:28.18*** join/#maemo marthd (~quassel@212-183-34-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
22:28.20nox-ext4?  are you sure n900 even knows that?
22:29.41*** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio92@unaffiliated/kerio92)
22:29.51SpeedEvilCan anyone point me at n950 source? Secifically kernel - but any is handy
22:32.31Hurrianhttp://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/k/kernel/
22:32.33andre__SpeedEvil, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/k/kernel/ I guess
22:32.41SpeedEvilThanks!
22:32.41andre__heh
22:32.47Hurriannox- i'm working with the rootfs.lzo image from the N950 system
22:32.50SpeedEvilAnd Human wins!
22:32.51SpeedEvil:)
22:32.55Hurriannokia has it on download ;)
22:33.03nox-oh ok :)
22:33.26Hurrianalso, i've found the EXT4 header at 18E, tried to mount it at offset 398, no dice
22:33.40Hurrian"53 EF"
22:33.43jacekowskiHurrian: it may be ubifs
22:33.54jacekowskiHurrian: i wouldn't expect them to change it
22:34.30Hurriani will shoot somebody if they actually strapped an ext4 fs on top of ubi
22:35.00Hurrianthen again, you may be right
22:35.01jacekowskiare you sure it's ext4 header
22:35.08jacekowskinot something looking like ext4?
22:35.08Hurrianthe "ext4" header comes after FS label
22:35.30Hurriani'm comparing an ext4 sparse file to the rootfs.lzo image
22:35.41jacekowskii would shoot them just for using ext4 on mobile device
22:36.02SpeedEvilHurrian: Sorry - not awake - how do I go from deb to source?
22:36.09Hurrianuhh, wait
22:36.23jacekowskiSpeedEvil: apt-get source packagename
22:36.46andre__I expect ext4 for /home (but vfat for the user documents section)
22:38.44kerioandre__: that's another whole load of bullshit
22:38.47SpeedEvilthanks
22:39.00keriovfat is not fit for *anything* nowadays
22:39.17SpeedEvilIs there a onenand, or is it one big eMMC?
22:39.29SpeedEvils/onenand/POP nand/
22:40.10andre__kerio, sure, let's just ignore the 96% Windows users out there that want to copy Music onto the device
22:40.54*** part/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi)
22:40.55kerioyou mean let's ignore the 4 windows users who will buy the n9 by mistake?
22:41.20jacekowskiandre__: you can always do it in MTP mode
22:41.37kerioponders about vfat emulation
22:42.39jacekowskikerio: i thought about that
22:42.44andre__jacekowski: also for non-media files? always thought that it was a windows media player thingy, but haven't used windows for years so no idea
22:42.53keriowould that work?
22:42.58jacekowskikerio: yes
22:43.03jacekowskikerio: complicated though
22:43.22jacekowskiandre__: no
22:43.39jacekowskiandre__: you can use MTP to transfer any kind of files
22:43.40kerioyou'd still need to umount the fs from meego though
22:43.42andre__ah
22:44.27jacekowskino
22:44.32jacekowskithat's the thing with mtp
22:44.40jacekowskiit's more like scp sort of thing
22:44.47jacekowskijust over usb and called differently
22:44.52jacekowskiand implementd slightly differently
22:45.15kerioso, not like scp
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22:50.34Hurrianuuuugh, i wish we can port MTP to maemo 5
22:50.45Hurrianthis is the way nokia should've done it a LONG time ago
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