| 00:00.31 | DocScrutinizer | oooh |
| 00:01.21 | DocScrutinizer | anybody knows of any app that's messing with CAL? E.G for switching regulatory settings of WiFi, whatever? |
| 00:06.17 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:09.17 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, way too much crap to do after reflashing |
| 00:09.33 | MohammadAG | oh and have fun http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37915 |
| 00:10.26 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 00:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ??? |
| 00:13.44 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: which fun? what's with that link, what's with CAL? |
| 00:14.30 | nox- | isnt that where the code hash is stored? |
| 00:15.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not assuming this tool that obviously doesn't even ship binary will cause CAL corruption frequently, for 'normal' users |
| 00:15.27 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: sure |
| 00:16.23 | nox- | so you'd just have to overwrite it like any other pw reset tool... |
| 00:16.30 | nox- | correct? |
| 00:16.30 | DocScrutinizer | but I still fail to see how that tool is related to code hash resetting by flashing |
| 00:16.59 | nox- | well the source could be adapted maybe |
| 00:17.09 | DocScrutinizer | to do what? |
| 00:17.14 | nox- | reset the hash |
| 00:17.24 | MohammadAG | the lock code isn't reset by reflashing |
| 00:17.25 | DocScrutinizer | why would anybody want to do that? |
| 00:17.32 | MohammadAG | only the gconf key that causes the lock dialog to show up |
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| 00:18.07 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, lost code? |
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| 00:19.02 | DocScrutinizer | you could use that tool (or any other similar one) only if you have access to system. But then you as well can recover the code, and alter it via normal settings panel in maemo |
| 00:19.45 | nox- | sure its only 4 or 5 digits so you can bruteforce it.. |
| 00:19.59 | nox- | so not that useful in this case, ok |
| 00:20.32 | DocScrutinizer | there's john and I'd not exactly call that brute force |
| 00:20.48 | lcuk | if you get it wrong 5 times it automatically converts your keyboard layout to dvorak, so even if you get back in you cannot type anything. |
| 00:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 00:21.10 | nox- | haha really? |
| 00:21.27 | lcuk | no, but that is what I would do if I had written the system |
| 00:21.36 | nox- | :) |
| 00:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | what a nonsense |
| 00:22.44 | ShadowJK | one handed dvorak |
| 00:23.01 | nox- | if its not bruteforce does that mean the hash is weak? |
| 00:23.06 | lcuk | lol dvorak numerals |
| 00:23.17 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: yes, seems so |
| 00:23.20 | ShadowJK | i think the salt is known.. |
| 00:23.22 | nox- | oh |
| 00:23.52 | nox- | well not that it matters much with 5 digits... |
| 00:24.01 | ShadowJK | exactly |
| 00:25.41 | DocScrutinizer | damn, 2 devices and none has a standard 1.3 rootfs so I could test reflashing |
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| 00:28.50 | Hurrian | ugh |
| 00:29.28 | Hurrian | all the white housings for the n900 dont include a white keyboard/a white keyboard with Nokia Sans and the back of the slider thing |
| 00:30.15 | ShadowJK | ... what... |
| 00:30.19 | ShadowJK | white... housings? |
| 00:30.29 | nox- | o_O |
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| 00:31.08 | Hurrian | got tired of looking at a black n900 |
| 00:31.24 | Hurrian | i'd like to have a green and white one, instead of a blue and black one |
| 00:32.09 | Hurrian | ...but then i'd have to color-invert hildon-theme-alpha D: |
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| 00:33.00 | Hurrian | and i noticed, no one has a white thing around the screen |
| 00:33.21 | Hurrian | uhh... "touch window assembly" |
| 00:33.51 | lcuk | plays at being a weather man |
| 00:34.07 | Hurrian | looks at the service manual |
| 00:34.19 | Hurrian | oh, wait, that was the digitizer? |
| 00:34.19 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: With or without the large map floating in the ocean? |
| 00:34.22 | Hurrian | no wonder |
| 00:35.10 | lcuk | with |
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| 00:46.04 | MohammadAG | we need an initrd that shows you the hashed code |
| 00:46.46 | MohammadAG | basically, something that does echo $(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1 | tail -1) |
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| 01:01.15 | GeneralAntilles | OK, I'm bored with lulsec |
| 01:03.22 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, which bit |
| 01:03.28 | GeneralAntilles | All of it. |
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| 01:07.51 | pauly | hey there |
| 01:08.03 | pauly | i fixed my usb problem |
| 01:08.57 | pauly | by buying another n900 so now i can charge! |
| 01:09.44 | pauly | anyone in usa interested in n900 broken usb broken screen cheap |
| 01:10.31 | ShadowJK | how did the screen break.. |
| 01:11.04 | pauly | dropped it |
| 01:11.33 | ShadowJK | and the usb at the same time? |
| 01:12.59 | pauly | no usb couple months before |
| 01:13.16 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 01:13.33 | pauly | interested? |
| 01:14.13 | ShadowJK | No :) |
| 01:14.30 | ShadowJK | actually has a spare N900 in his drawer |
| 01:14.37 | pauly | lol |
| 01:15.01 | ShadowJK | 6230, 6820, E70, E75, N800, N810, N900, N900 :) |
| 01:15.24 | ShadowJK | crap, when I line it up on a single line like htat I've wasted shitloads of money on Nokia :s |
| 01:15.44 | ShadowJK | Not counting the stock right before elop said stupid shit :D |
| 01:17.17 | Hurrian | >not using the spare n900 as a nettop with HEN, the TV-Out cable and a USB hub |
| 01:17.20 | Hurrian | also |
| 01:18.14 | ShadowJK | I already have a netbook, I switched it on today first time in 5 weeks |
| 01:18.23 | ShadowJK | to watch the live broadcast of hurtigruten |
| 01:18.45 | Hurrian | 3210 > 6170 > 6600 > N70 > N95 > N900 |
| 01:19.03 | ShadowJK | (Live TV broadcast of a 5-day journey by shp from middle of norway to northernmost easternmost norway, stopping at every fjord) |
| 01:19.11 | nox- | zaurus -> n900 |
| 01:19.18 | ShadowJK | I had a 3210 too, it developed weird fault |
| 01:19.41 | ShadowJK | Everything on it was half speed, and sometimes it missed calls. Snake was easy at half speed, though. :-) |
| 01:20.16 | Hurrian | shadowjk, my 3210 still works, i just need to find a new battery for it |
| 01:20.25 | ShadowJK | I put it in one of those Nokia postage prepaid recyling envelopers. Back when they did that kind of stuff. |
| 01:20.27 | Hurrian | the thing's bloated already ): |
| 01:20.48 | DocScrutinizer | not going to start ;-) |
| 01:20.54 | ShadowJK | I used my 3210 battery to power a discman.The battery got bloated :-) |
| 01:21.25 | Hurrian | oh, i used to have a discman in my old corolla |
| 01:21.30 | Hurrian | dat amber light |
| 01:21.33 | Hurrian | that nostalgia |
| 01:21.46 | nox- | dds gave tape a bad name... |
| 01:21.54 | nox- | :) |
| 01:22.07 | DocScrutinizer | dds? |
| 01:22.21 | nox- | `dat' streamers |
| 01:22.42 | DocScrutinizer | the scoopman NT class? |
| 01:22.44 | nox- | where one drive oven couldnt read the tapes from another, etc |
| 01:22.47 | ShadowJK | You know, when people play C casette in cars today, and the tape has been warped by decade of hot car and sun exposure, and you can just about make out stuff <1000hz, I'm glad CDs came |
| 01:22.55 | nox- | s/oven/often/ |
| 01:23.40 | ShadowJK | (.fi tax policy makes sure nobody can afford car newer than 10yrs old) |
| 01:23.57 | nox- | https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Digital_Data_Storage |
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| 01:24.38 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.praktiker.at/download/lepau604.pdf thought you talk about that one |
| 01:24.40 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 01:24.49 | DocScrutinizer | I still love it |
| 01:25.25 | nox- | heh |
| 01:25.37 | nox- | not sure i remember that thing :) |
| 01:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | awesome |
| 01:26.09 | DocScrutinizer | non-tracking helical recording "DAT" |
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| 01:26.41 | ShadowJK | helical? |
| 01:26.48 | ShadowJK | is that vaguely like vhs |
| 01:26.51 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. you "overscan" by rotation head drum too fast, then reassemble the snippets in RAM |
| 01:26.52 | nox- | yep |
| 01:27.05 | nox- | heh |
| 01:28.15 | DocScrutinizer | took it with me 24/7 for like 5 years |
| 01:28.22 | nox- | wow |
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| 01:28.38 | nox- | for music? |
| 01:28.43 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 01:28.59 | nox- | was it `shockproof'? |
| 01:29.06 | DocScrutinizer | mostly |
| 01:29.10 | nox- | ah |
| 01:29.29 | DocScrutinizer | it had no dropouts if that's what you mean |
| 01:29.34 | nox- | yeah |
| 01:29.37 | DocScrutinizer | did no droptests |
| 01:29.42 | nox- | :) |
| 01:30.37 | nox- | my first (non-analog) tape drive was a qic525, installed freebsd 2.0.5 off it... :) |
| 01:30.42 | DocScrutinizer | I've been so scared by the service manual that I actually never dared to disassemble the device ;-P |
| 01:31.19 | DocScrutinizer | flexible PCB 5 times folded, or somesuch :-o |
| 01:31.28 | nox- | ouch |
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| 01:34.56 | Sazpaimon | so like |
| 01:34.58 | Sazpaimon | out of curiosity |
| 01:35.13 | Sazpaimon | why *wouldn't* an android chroot work |
| 01:35.45 | nox- | different kernel? |
| 01:36.08 | Sazpaimon | chroot doesn't depend on kernel versions |
| 01:36.25 | nox- | userland might |
| 01:37.15 | Sazpaimon | what libraries would depend on a certain kernel version and why, though |
| 01:37.38 | nox- | i dont know android, i only know its `different' |
| 01:38.07 | nox- | so might depend on kernel customizations etc |
| 01:38.18 | Sazpaimon | I don't either, but I know it's semi-linux and could probably run in a chrooted environment |
| 01:38.25 | Sazpaimon | but i dont know why nobody has tried it |
| 01:39.05 | Sazpaimon | are there a great deal of linux kernel patches to android? |
| 01:40.09 | nox- | waits for someone that knows android to speak up :) |
| 01:40.24 | Sazpaimon | maybe i should just extract a nitdroid image and see how it works |
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| 02:01.44 | DocScrutinizer | you could as well try to run windows apps under linux |
| 02:02.45 | DocScrutinizer | a chroot doesn't offer a new kernel API |
| 02:03.03 | ShadowJK | Well.. |
| 02:03.16 | yigal | hello I have my 1st infinite reboot loop, I'm trying to reflash with no success, with 'sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f<CR>' + hit 'u' key on n900 and plugin into computer via usb |
| 02:03.30 | yigal | any advice |
| 02:03.47 | ShadowJK | If N900 had like 4 gigs memory, I'd be all for it |
| 02:03.47 | DocScrutinizer | ~flashing |
| 02:03.48 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 02:04.00 | yigal | yes yes I've followed that |
| 02:04.19 | ShadowJK | But, as N900 only has 256M, any extra framework/library/etc is just creating more of a slowdown ... |
| 02:04.58 | DocScrutinizer | yo |
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| 02:05.36 | DocScrutinizer | yigal: does device still bootloop when you plug it to arbitrary PC with 'U' held down? |
| 02:05.40 | ShadowJK | yigal, Disconnect everything. Remove battery. Disconnect everything. Start flasher on computer. Disconnect everything. Connect N900 to computer. Press u. Insert battery. |
| 02:05.57 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's *all* in ~flashing |
| 02:06.04 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: yes |
| 02:06.16 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, sometimes you need condensed version :-) |
| 02:06.21 | DocScrutinizer | recharge battery externally (also in flashing!) |
| 02:06.29 | ShadowJK | yigal, do you have a dmm? |
| 02:06.49 | yigal | ShadowJK: not on me |
| 02:07.00 | yigal | ShadowJK: hopefully it won't come to this, but ok |
| 02:07.12 | yigal | I'll try it again a few more time |
| 02:07.13 | yigal | s |
| 02:07.21 | DocScrutinizer | you don't need any: when still bootlooping thats a clear indication of bat too low |
| 02:07.34 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: yes, of course it is! |
| 02:07.35 | yigal | ok |
| 02:07.46 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: thank you |
| 02:08.03 | DocScrutinizer | device doesn't charge bat when bootlooping (also in ~flashing!) |
| 02:08.09 | ShadowJK | yigal, well, it is known that N900 with insufficient (read: <70%) battery charge will refuse to accept flashing.. also it is known that flashing from 64bit windows rarely succeeds |
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| 02:08.33 | yigal | ShadowJK: just 11.04 Ubuntu at the moment |
| 02:08.37 | ShadowJK | So, that's why I asked about dmm, because that'd give us a reading of battery state :-) |
| 02:08.52 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: so how do I charge it, do I need to purchase an external charger? |
| 02:08.53 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: useless |
| 02:09.01 | yigal | ShadowJK: ah |
| 02:09.18 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: there's exactly one cause for device looping with 'U' held down |
| 02:09.32 | DocScrutinizer | yigal: yes |
| 02:09.41 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: darn it |
| 02:09.46 | ShadowJK | Consumer reply: yes |
| 02:09.59 | ShadowJK | hacker reply: give it 4V |
| 02:10.07 | yigal | ShadowJK: :D |
| 02:10.15 | DocScrutinizer | yoyoyo |
| 02:10.22 | DocScrutinizer | happy fireworks |
| 02:10.32 | ShadowJK | sensible reply: stop fucking around with shit you don't fucking understand and get properly charged battery |
| 02:10.41 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 02:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | hacker!= electronics clue |
| 02:10.47 | ShadowJK | as DocScrutinizer hints above :) |
| 02:10.53 | ShadowJK | Yeah... |
| 02:11.35 | yigal | I have an MS in physics, not an EE but I'm comfortable around electronics |
| 02:11.54 | DocScrutinizer | the key her is the err whole sentence: you as well can get a spare battery |
| 02:12.08 | DocScrutinizer | they usually are good enough for flashing |
| 02:12.23 | ShadowJK | essentially as external battery + charger costs about $15 |
| 02:12.23 | yigal | ya it's all a matter of waiting the few days I will need to, to get a working phone |
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| 02:12.36 | DocScrutinizer | yigal: then charge with ~5V and current limited to max 1A |
| 02:12.45 | DocScrutinizer | old nokia chargers are cool for that |
| 02:12.47 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: ok |
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| 02:12.55 | yigal | thanks both of you |
| 02:12.59 | DocScrutinizer | do so for max 10min - ATTENDED |
| 02:13.09 | yigal | ok |
| 02:13.23 | DocScrutinizer | then test voltage or try 'U' test |
| 02:13.43 | DocScrutinizer | if it needs another charge cycle, give it another 10 min |
| 02:13.54 | ShadowJK | yigal, MS in physics basically ensures that on a theoretical basis you might be able to explain why my transistor exploded... But, it also ensures that you have no good measuing equipment, and no good powersupply equipment, and 0 experience with real life issues (becuse nothing behaves like the ideal model) :-) |
| 02:13.57 | DocScrutinizer | all on your own peril |
| 02:14.35 | yigal | ShadowJK: well now at least I know what you think of us physicists |
| 02:14.37 | yigal | :D |
| 02:14.45 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: understood ;) |
| 02:14.47 | ShadowJK | yigal, you physicists are awesome |
| 02:15.19 | DocScrutinizer | conecting one of those 4.8V@600mA nokia chargers with barrel plug to battery is simple enough for an MS phy ;-P |
| 02:15.26 | yigal | ok well to prove you wrong I'm going to now bake my french bread, something not theoretical |
| 02:15.36 | yigal | DocScrutinizer: :P |
| 02:15.49 | ShadowJK | yigal, but clearly, you are an intelligent person |
| 02:15.55 | yigal | lol |
| 02:18.35 | yigal | ShadowJK: why do you say that? |
| 02:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | we are good in sensing that ;-) |
| 02:18.35 | yigal | :D, thanks guys |
| 02:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | yigal: good luck! |
| 02:18.35 | ShadowJK | So, us EE can, if you want, go out of a limb, and provide alternate charging methods, if you are willing to take some risk, to reach your goal quicker :P |
| 02:18.35 | ShadowJK | disqualifies himself from ee |
| 02:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | hands ShadowJK a for-the-honor EE cert |
| 02:23.06 | ShadowJK | I saw that top-gear episode with rocket scientists, physicists and whatever |
| 02:24.04 | ShadowJK | They're all highly intelligent people, but I'd want to give them personal realtime guidance if they were to touch any real life potentially dangerous equipment :-) |
| 02:24.13 | yigal | ah nothing like a freshly made french bread |
| 02:25.02 | yigal | ok time to make stuff explode, have a great weekend, talk to you in a day or two - if I haven't blown myself up :D |
| 02:25.10 | ShadowJK | :( |
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| 02:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
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| 02:31.06 | Sazpaimon | DocScrutinizer, yeah i never realized how different android's filesystem is to regular linux installs |
| 02:31.20 | Sazpaimon | its linker is especially different |
| 02:31.29 | Sazpaimon | making a chroot on linux useless |
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| 09:10.48 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 11:39.35 | thopiekar | hi.. I heard that Carman and other applications from Diablo are available on Fremantle, too.. bought a N900 but can't find them. are they all in extras-devel? |
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| 11:51.52 | SpeedEvil | carman is not available on n900, nor are in general diablo apps |
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| 13:04.37 | mer_ge | why isn't it possible to place a Gtalk-audio-call FROM the N900, but TO the N900? |
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| 13:05.46 | petteri | to the same n900? |
| 13:07.07 | jacekowski | mer_ge: it should be |
| 13:07.14 | jacekowski | mer_ge: i can do jingle calls from n900 |
| 13:07.41 | petteri | I have been using those jingle calls a lot, works for me also |
| 13:07.59 | mer_ge | i can do jingle calls as well. to jitsi, to empathy no problem. |
| 13:08.38 | mer_ge | a friend of mine just logged in from his android 2.3.4 device and I don't see audio-capabilities |
| 13:08.52 | petteri | android might not implement that properly |
| 13:08.57 | mer_ge | not from my jabber-account, and not from my gmail account |
| 13:09.08 | mer_ge | but he can call me |
| 13:09.20 | mer_ge | gmail and to my jabber account |
| 13:09.34 | petteri | can you call him, from any other device? |
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| 13:10.18 | MoonTiger | hey guys :) |
| 13:10.23 | mer_ge | I have to say, I only tested jitsi. I can't call him there. (but jitsi's gtalk is in dev atm) |
| 13:11.10 | MoonTiger | how would you recommend storing passwords? |
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| 13:14.19 | mer_ge | okay, empathy also can not call the Gtalk Android App (but that should quite like the N900 anyways) |
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| 13:15.09 | mer_ge | I really would like to know if the App hides its funktionality |
| 13:15.36 | mer_ge | but then .... no 2 mobile Gtalk Apps could ever call each other |
| 13:16.03 | mer_ge | always only Android <-> "desktop"(or N900) |
| 13:16.15 | MoonTiger | mer_ge, until they announce a SIP service :) |
| 13:16.17 | petteri | you can call from n900 to n900 |
| 13:17.15 | mer_ge | petteri I know, you can really think of the n900 as a laptop |
| 13:17.52 | mer_ge | MoonTiger yea but this Gtalk-App behavious is strange, I wonder why I haven't heard bout it before |
| 13:18.10 | MoonTiger | ive never heard of it either ... just looking on their site now |
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| 13:21.34 | MoonTiger | langplace.com deems to be the company who owns the domain |
| 13:22.38 | MoonTiger | ahhhhhh its in java |
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| 13:23.32 | lardman | afternoon chaps |
| 13:23.42 | lardman | anything exciting happened in the past few days? |
| 13:23.51 | lardman | I am broadband-less as just moved house |
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| 13:24.25 | MoonTiger | so password storage on maemo sucks too? |
| 13:24.52 | petteri | why do you think so? |
| 13:25.15 | MoonTiger | well is there a managed password storage aka gnome keyring? i havent found anything on google |
| 13:25.52 | petteri | how can it suck if there none? |
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| 13:26.10 | MoonTiger | thats what sucks ... are you being deliberately obtuse? |
| 13:26.29 | mr_jrt | Anyone know the best way to tempoarily prevent incoming calls and sms's? You can't disable the Telepathy account, and turning off the cellular hardware seems heavy-handed (it'd be great to still be able to maintain a data connection without being able to recieve calls or messages, but I suspect this isn't going to be possible)... |
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| 13:28.56 | lardman | assumes not then |
| 13:29.14 | lardman | have a nice weekend all, back to unpacking and cleaning, etc. for me |
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| 14:21.14 | Sazpaimon | so can the qt sdk replace scratchbox as a general development evironment for the N900 |
| 14:21.31 | Sazpaimon | like, for non-qt stuff |
| 14:26.37 | lcuk | it would be called the qt+everything else sdk if that were the case |
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| 14:55.43 | Sazpaimon | lcuk, so I'm still stuck with scratchbox then |
| 14:55.49 | Sazpaimon | what a hassle |
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| 16:00.19 | javispedro | if you now try to search '$WIKI_SOFTWARE_NAME wiki links' in Google you know get wikileaks results. Hate hate hate! |
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| 16:01.11 | javispedro | ah well, only if the software is obscure enough seemingly. |
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| 16:07.17 | lcuk | :D |
| 16:07.25 | lcuk | awesome, n900-ce now happily imports maemo contacts |
| 16:07.46 | lcuk | booting up with it after you export from maemo onto eMMC now happily fills up the addressbook on meego |
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| 17:10.53 | smhar | I've been away for some time. has the state of email applications in N900 changed? |
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| 19:08.56 | psycho_oreos | any of you guys played with bluetooth scripts on N900? trying to see if I can add extra commands when its paired to a device |
| 19:09.53 | DocScrutinizer | does't googe have " -wikileaks " anymore |
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| 19:11.13 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: there's for sure a dbus event |
| 19:13.27 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, thanks for the hints, gonna dig in :) |
| 19:13.43 | DocScrutinizer | dbus-monitor is your friend |
| 19:13.57 | psycho_oreos | yeah did that and now reading through the buffer |
| 19:14.31 | DocScrutinizer | and dbus-scripts of course |
| 19:15.18 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: always keep in mind there are TWO dbus busses |
| 19:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | some things are system domain and thus found on system bus, not the default session bus |
| 19:16.31 | DocScrutinizer | also don't run dbus-mon as root ;-) |
| 19:18.57 | psycho_oreos | lol bit late for that, Iãran dbus-mon as root, dumped output to a log file for closer scrutinisation :D |
| 19:19.27 | psycho_oreos | and yeah I chose system as it should cover literally everything. Probably even more than session |
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| 19:21.41 | DocScrutinizer | root ok for system. system not ok for most of interesting events |
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| 19:23.56 | DocScrutinizer | when you're searching unspecific rhen you always want check both system bus and user session bus |
| 19:24.28 | thopiekar | Is it possible to save a irc room at osso-chat? Installed the chat plugin for irc which i use now.. |
| 19:24.40 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBFB54.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:24.53 | DocScrutinizer | nevr used that, it's lame |
| 19:24.58 | DocScrutinizer | YMMV |
| 19:25.14 | thopiekar | Hmm |
| 19:27.06 | DocScrutinizer | well, I'm used to xchat since N810, and never used any other IM services than IRC |
| 19:27.27 | DocScrutinizer | I'm possibly biased |
| 19:27.59 | thopiekar | K, I'll check it out.. |
| 19:28.52 | Choom | uses irssi remotely |
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| 19:29.59 | thopiekar | What about codecs? Installed the extra codec package but it doesn't seem to support mpeg-ts which i would need to watch mythtv recordings at maemo's mediaplayer via upnp |
| 19:30.19 | thopiekar | .. |
| 19:30.40 | thopiekar | Mythtv doesn't support upnp av atm |
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| 20:25.57 | trumee_ | anybody using FLAC on N900? I tagged all the FLAC files using easytag but still they get dumped in Unknown Album/Artist |
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| 20:35.43 | Technomike | hey guys |
| 20:36.15 | Technomike | what consumes more power on n900... wifi or 3g ? |
| 20:37.26 | cehteh | cant say that easily because both can vary very much depending on the local situation |
| 20:37.31 | _trine | wifi probably |
| 20:37.47 | cehteh | 3g can consume a lot of power |
| 20:37.54 | _trine | but if you have a weak sigbal on 3g it could use more |
| 20:37.59 | thopiekar | Use gsm to save battery |
| 20:38.12 | cehteh | weak signal, cell handovers, bad reception |
| 20:38.26 | thopiekar | Hmm |
| 20:38.52 | Technomike | oh i can use either right now but I want to save my battery power because i don't have my charger with me :( |
| 20:39.18 | cehteh | gsm is nice for standby .. but when you want to transfer bulk data then it needs more time (more cpu awake) to get things done |
| 20:39.40 | Technomike | i have full signal (its even hsdpa) on both |
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| 20:42.37 | Sicelo | power management wiki suggests that wifi uses less power... but AP must have good power save settings |
| 20:43.46 | cehteh | i can only use 'moderate power saving' with my AP and listening to webradio would eat the battery in about 3 hrs |
| 20:43.57 | cehteh | in the same room as the AP |
| 20:44.58 | _trine | the difference is the same as how long will a £100 last me |
| 20:45.10 | cehteh | :) |
| 20:45.14 | _trine | answer is |
| 20:45.26 | _trine | for ever if you dont spend it |
| 20:45.51 | _trine | if you use wifi it will use more than 3g |
| 20:46.25 | _trine | because 3g will only talk intermittently to the cells |
| 20:46.31 | _trine | unless you use it |
| 20:46.55 | _trine | so the anser is dont use it and it will last a long time |
| 20:48.10 | _trine | n900 batteries last a really long time if the phone is switched off |
| 20:49.38 | cehteh | even if its switched on but in standby/flight mode |
| 20:50.11 | cehteh | prolly you can leave it 2-3 weeks in such a standby mode |
| 20:50.26 | cehteh | mhm forgot about trackerd :P |
| 20:50.31 | cehteh | well 1 week then |
| 20:51.28 | _trine | as always its a question of which one is used the most |
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| 20:56.37 | MohammadAG | morning |
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| 20:58.01 | _trine | its not morning |
| 20:58.45 | MohammadAG | ~ugt |
| 20:58.45 | infobot | well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 20:59.04 | _trine | bah |
| 20:59.18 | thopiekar | xD |
| 20:59.33 | _trine | or more correctly bah humbug |
| 20:59.44 | _trine | :) |
| 20:59.59 | thopiekar | :D |
| 21:03.22 | _trine | anyone fancy compiling pyrit for me |
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| 21:05.12 | thopiekar | Pyrit? Sounds like a module.. As i remember from the past at diablo there is a team whos job is to provide modules.. |
| 21:06.03 | _trine | svn checkout http://pyrit.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ pyrit_svn |
| 21:06.24 | _trine | http://code.google.com/p/pyrit/ |
| 21:06.41 | _trine | that home page is well out of date though |
| 21:08.57 | thopiekar | _trine: I'm working at mythtv atm ;) |
| 21:09.10 | _trine | k |
| 21:10.06 | _trine | pyrit should take about 4 seconds to compile if you have the right build environment |
| 21:15.39 | trumee | thopiekar: waiting for the binaries :) |
| 21:16.12 | trumee | thopiekar: i did try compiling myth-0.22 sometime as reported in that thread, but wasnt very successfull. |
| 21:16.41 | trumee | thopiekar: Lack of QT3 was the problem iirc, and gles support |
| 21:17.51 | trumee | thopiekar: it seems gles support is present in myth-0.25 |
| 21:17.52 | thopiekar | Ill take the qt3 libs from diablo sdk via apt-get source.. And switch to fremantle and compile it there.. |
| 21:17.57 | thopiekar | Hope it works |
| 21:18.18 | MohammadAG | it should |
| 21:18.20 | thopiekar | _trine: have you ever packaged? |
| 21:18.58 | _trine | no sorry |
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| 21:23.46 | thopiekar | Damn, can' t install the diablo sdk here.. Using x64.. |
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| 21:26.02 | thopiekar | Hmm I'll better prepare a vm then.. |
| 21:26.03 | GeneralAntilles | Firefox 5 already? |
| 21:26.14 | GeneralAntilles | Trivializing major release numbers . . . why? |
| 21:31.44 | thopiekar | _trine how is the package called providing module building when the source is installed? |
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| 21:33.01 | thopiekar | Got it python-support |
| 21:34.44 | _trine | setup.py build |
| 21:34.50 | _trine | setup.py install |
| 21:35.22 | thopiekar | Sure python-support will do it for you when installing the package.. |
| 21:35.29 | thopiekar | ;) |
| 21:35.30 | _trine | Only pyrit itself will be usful |
| 21:35.55 | _trine | all the other stuff will be of no use on the n900 |
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| 21:36.39 | _trine | I just want pyrit so I can verify the 'goodness' of the 4Way handshake |
| 21:37.19 | _trine | pyrit -r capfile.cap analyze |
| 21:38.07 | thopiekar | _trine: which is the latest python version on fremantle? 2.5? |
| 21:39.04 | _trine | I dont know much about the n900 stuff ,, I have built all this on my PC at the moment |
| 21:39.33 | thopiekar | Check python --version via xterm |
| 21:41.35 | thopiekar | Ok 2.5 checked that |
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| 21:43.21 | _trine | I used 2.7 on my ubuntu |
| 21:44.40 | thopiekar | Never mind need to bind it against a python version because scratchbox is doing crazy things.. It would use it own python install.. Afaik |
| 21:44.56 | thopiekar | .. From diablo of course.. |
| 21:46.05 | _trine | I have built machine with some ATI GPU's in it so I can play with pyrit |
| 21:46.42 | _trine | but the n900 is ideal for collecting the 4Way handshake |
| 21:46.57 | _trine | and it can do that in seconds |
| 21:48.09 | _trine | it does 180000 PMK's a second |
| 21:50.12 | thopiekar | Btw. Isn't it already packaged it the ubuntu repos? |
| 21:50.37 | _trine | you mean pyrit? |
| 21:50.47 | thopiekar | Yes |
| 21:51.03 | _trine | I dont know I just compiled the svn |
| 21:51.31 | _trine | and for a pc you also need calpp |
| 21:51.37 | thopiekar | It is.. |
| 21:52.01 | _trine | if its in ubuntu its likely to be old |
| 21:52.08 | neal | When a wireless connection is disconnected, is it possible for me to tell whether the user forced the disconnect or whether it was due to inadequate signal? Perhaps via d-bus? |
| 21:52.52 | thopiekar | Next time you need a package from me tell me that xD got here 0.4.0.. Is that ok? |
| 21:53.05 | _trine | yes |
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| 21:54.14 | thopiekar | I would wonder if not got oneiric installed here ;) |
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| 22:33.13 | DocScrutinizer | neal: good question. yes, I'd start with monitoring dbus to find out |
| 22:34.03 | DocScrutinizer | I'd think a user-forced disconnect will show up on dbus in a unique way |
| 22:35.39 | DocScrutinizer | while a signal-loss is an internal thing of, err... that network managing thing, forgot the name NCD2? |
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| 23:24.43 | GeneralAntilles | http://i.imgur.com/NDSmT.jpg |
| 23:24.44 | GeneralAntilles | Huh |
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| 23:28.21 | DocScrutinizer | 512MB RAM, 1GHz CPU clock max, nice |
| 23:29.20 | GeneralAntilles | Assuming that's real Cortex A8 and not any of Qualcomm's bullshit |
| 23:29.23 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, nice. |
| 23:29.51 | DocScrutinizer | (qualcom BS) indeed |
| 23:30.04 | DocScrutinizer | still I bet on c-ts and so MEH!! |
| 23:30.35 | GeneralAntilles | Well |
| 23:30.44 | GeneralAntilles | Rumor has it it'll be more exciting than just c-ts |
| 23:30.49 | GeneralAntilles | Besides |
| 23:30.58 | DocScrutinizer | also not convinced about easy migration from maemo5 to maemo-RM680-15 |
| 23:31.01 | GeneralAntilles | Given the number of options here (exactly one) I'm willing to make some compromises. |
| 23:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe |
| 23:31.39 | nox- | you guys still think this `mystery device' is real? |
| 23:31.48 | DocScrutinizer | sure it is real |
| 23:31.54 | SpeedEvil | Real - yes. |
| 23:32.04 | DocScrutinizer | I definitely know there are real devices out at testers |
| 23:32.09 | SpeedEvil | Actually coming out and going to be purcahsable by end users - questionable. |
| 23:32.14 | nox- | yeah but it will also be sold? |
| 23:32.28 | DocScrutinizer | that's the question :-P |
| 23:32.32 | nox- | right |
| 23:32.41 | DocScrutinizer | and even more a question: will it *sell* |
| 23:32.45 | GeneralAntilles | I'm forced to assume so. |
| 23:32.54 | GeneralAntilles | Given that Nokia has NOTHING else to offer until almost next year. |
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| 23:33.20 | GeneralAntilles | But, I'm often overly optimistic. |
| 23:33.21 | nox- | well at least windows phone isnt really selling either... |
| 23:33.22 | Shapeshifter | ha... "redefining success". What a smart slogan. I guess for nokia, success has been redefined as "not being completely overtaken by everyone else" |
| 23:33.26 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia has to offer own graceful death, nothing more. That's my take on Nokia for this time |
| 23:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | and honestly who's going to buy RM680? maemo fanboys? hardly. |
| 23:34.51 | DocScrutinizer | meego fanboys? who are those anyway? |
| 23:35.08 | GeneralAntilles | Depends on how they position it |
| 23:35.10 | Shapeshifter | huh |
| 23:35.15 | GeneralAntilles | If it's a compelling device with good appeal |
| 23:35.18 | DocScrutinizer | slaps himself and shuts up |
| 23:35.19 | GeneralAntilles | Lots of people will buy it. |
| 23:35.21 | Shapeshifter | I will buy it if it's significantly better than the n900 |
| 23:36.26 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: there is a LOT of hw 'better than N900' out there. Why exactly would you buy RM680? |
| 23:36.34 | nox- | wonders if the best we'll get wont just end up as no-need-to-jailbreak android phones... |
| 23:36.38 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia folks were pretty enthusiastic about it in SF. |
| 23:36.58 | GeneralAntilles | nox-, sure seems to be trending that way. |
| 23:37.18 | GeneralAntilles | trying to save an HTML attachment from Gmail last night on 2.2 almost made me kill myself. |
| 23:37.28 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: it's not just about hardware |
| 23:37.40 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: exactly my point |
| 23:37.47 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: if it has faster IO and a more streamlined/open linux, I may consider it |
| 23:38.01 | Shapeshifter | maemo is a bother at times |
| 23:38.04 | Shapeshifter | maemo5 |
| 23:38.26 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not temped to consider yet another closed linux ecosystem not compatible to maemo5 |
| 23:38.29 | GeneralAntilles | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.34 | GeneralAntilles | Is my question for the month |
| 23:38.55 | nox- | `dont know better'? |
| 23:39.12 | DocScrutinizer | if this rm680 thing is done right regarding OS, it would even run maemo5 *binaries* |
| 23:39.23 | nox- | heh |
| 23:39.36 | GeneralAntilles | nox-, but people like zerojay and dneary moving from Maemo to Android. |
| 23:39.40 | GeneralAntilles | I couldn't manage it. |
| 23:39.41 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: too many negations. what do you mean? |
| 23:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | eh? |
| 23:40.09 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: you're saying you think they will be compatible |
| 23:40.10 | nox- | GeneralAntilles, well maemo is kinda dead so might be understandable in a way... |
| 23:40.10 | DocScrutinizer | I mean I'm not interested in maemo5-meego-chimera |
| 23:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 23:40.22 | GeneralAntilles | nox-, well, dneary was using a G1 at the time. |
| 23:40.23 | DocScrutinizer | I mean I'm not interested in maemo6-meego-chimera |
| 23:40.40 | Shapeshifter | so you don't want them to be compatible? |
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| 23:40.45 | smhar | what exactly is rm680? |
| 23:40.51 | Shapeshifter | smhar: the new mystery nokia |
| 23:41.17 | nox- | ..that might never be sold :P |
| 23:41.18 | DocScrutinizer | commonly quoted as "N9" |
| 23:41.50 | Shapeshifter | man. it's incredible, if you were able to add up all the hours people spend 'anticipating' some hazy device |
| 23:42.03 | Shapeshifter | could be considered damage to the economy. and health |
| 23:42.06 | DocScrutinizer | probably shipped with a "meego" that's actually a maemo-harmattan crippled to >look like< meego |
| 23:42.14 | GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, doubtful. |
| 23:42.16 | GeneralAntilles | Pretty niche right here. |
| 23:42.19 | smhar | is it release yet or a date announced? |
| 23:42.19 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: eww, if you put it that way |
| 23:42.25 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, haha |
| 23:43.15 | Shapeshifter | but maemo5 is already a crippled linux |
| 23:43.27 | DocScrutinizer | and you bet it will cause more pain in your A** than you can take, trying to migrate from your m5 environment to that "meego" |
| 23:44.28 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: whatever maemo5 is, it's well supported by community and rather understood right now |
| 23:45.16 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: mh, yeah. it can do some amazing stuff. at the same time, some things are just terrible. on a basic level. like modest. |
| 23:45.25 | DocScrutinizer | and alot of that support been based on the rationale of maemo-os to come would offer an easy migration path |
| 23:45.28 | smhar | I really do not understand Nokia anymore, didn't they just dumped linux in favor of windows?! |
| 23:45.41 | Shapeshifter | maps was also terrible, at least the alternatives are starting to be useful |
| 23:46.46 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 23:46.52 | Shapeshifter | but it's not a very smart device. It's not a smart phone. more like a crippled miniature-laptop. |
| 23:47.05 | Shapeshifter | which is also okay |
| 23:47.13 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: ask for those maps alternatives' availability for RM680 prior to jumping into it head down |
| 23:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | s/down/first/ |
| 23:47.31 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: oh I'm not one of those people who buy anything right after the release etc. |
| 23:47.34 | Shapeshifter | or preorder |
| 23:47.39 | Shapeshifter | preordering is something I cannot understand |
| 23:47.54 | Shapeshifter | will read lots of angry reviews first. |
| 23:48.24 | Shapeshifter | it was amazing to see how many people bought an N900 and were terribly unhappy, even though its limitations were apparent. |
| 23:48.59 | SpeedEvil | smhar: yes, they did. However, they are committed - for reasons that are unclear - to release a 'meego' device - and they have not as yet backed away from this publically. |
| 23:49.26 | DocScrutinizer | I can't see jumping RM60 a single power user of N900 incl all the necessary auxiliary stuff from maemo-extras to make your life easier and phone useful for you |
| 23:49.36 | DocScrutinizer | RM680* |
| 23:49.50 | SpeedEvil | It depends on what the basis is. |
| 23:49.52 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 23:49.57 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: well if migration isn't hard and the stock apps are better plus the device being more powerful, I don't see much of a problem |
| 23:49.58 | loft306 | wwill it ever see the light of dayL |
| 23:49.58 | SpeedEvil | what the underlying software is. |
| 23:50.02 | loft306 | ? |
| 23:50.07 | SpeedEvil | loft306: We don't know. |
| 23:50.11 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: I preordered N900 on the rationale it had maemo as OS |
| 23:50.13 | SpeedEvil | loft306: Those that do know can't say. |
| 23:50.31 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: well you're an 'enthusiast' |
| 23:50.31 | loft306 | and if it dose will i have to goto EU? |
| 23:50.39 | smhar | SpeedEvil, I lost my N900 and I am soon getting another one, I can not put my bets on nokia anymore, probably intel but not nokia |
| 23:50.56 | loft306 | enen though it passed the FCC |
| 23:51.13 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: migration will be a PITA |
| 23:51.16 | SpeedEvil | loft306: DEvices can pass FCC and not be sold. |
| 23:51.23 | loft306 | i know |
| 23:51.23 | DocScrutinizer | just my 2 cents though |
| 23:51.28 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: how do you know, now |
| 23:51.44 | Shapeshifter | if it's really a maemo '6' |
| 23:51.49 | Shapeshifter | posing as meego |
| 23:51.49 | DocScrutinizer | I extrapolate from what I know about meego-arm |
| 23:52.15 | Shapeshifter | well, do you even know what package management it's going to use? |
| 23:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | I hope I'm wrong, honestly |
| 23:52.19 | Shapeshifter | is it going to be rpm? |
| 23:52.37 | DocScrutinizer | nope, probably not, though I dunno |
| 23:52.51 | Shapeshifter | it seems like we know nothing, neither positive nor negative. |
| 23:53.01 | Shapeshifter | well, apart from nokia generally screwing up. |
| 23:53.10 | DocScrutinizer | I'm more concerned about all the 'middleware' libs and stuff, like sensors, location, whatnot |
| 23:53.18 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: More important than RPM. Will it support PNG? |
| 23:53.28 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: >.> |
| 23:53.46 | smhar | Shapeshifter, I know something for sure by now, never trust Nokia on any thing they say, wait until you actually see the device |
| 23:53.50 | Shapeshifter | PNG? as in... pictures? I'm not getting the joke. |
| 23:54.43 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: so you fear the interfaces will be incompatible and all software using some middleware will break? |
| 23:54.56 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: nvm - someone at the meego conference who asked silly questions. |
| 23:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | all the hacks that fix issues for maemo5, starting at simple-backlight-applet over tweakr for user defined profiles, to dunno what. All that will not work anymore on maemo6-meego and I'm not willing to use a device that is back to the shitty UX maemo5 PR1.0 offered to me |
| 23:55.49 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: exactly |
| 23:56.13 | Shapeshifter | a sane concern |
| 23:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | aaah PNG, now I got the pun |
| 23:58.19 | GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter: there was an old Chinese guy asking inane questions in all of the talks at the MeeGo conf. |
| 23:58.31 | GeneralAntilles | "What does the Q stand for?" [in QML] |
| 23:58.40 | GeneralAntilles | "Awesome!" |
| 23:59.11 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5758755051/in/photostream |
| 23:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | basically I got same concerns with m6/meego-fake as with every OS update. I'm a power user that invests a lot of time to configure the user interface to his needs. I'm not willing to "simply reinstall windows to fix it" |
| 23:59.37 | Shapeshifter | GeneralAntilles: oh |
