| 00:00.52 | *** join/#maemo GonzoTheGreat (~quassel@loki.atnf.csiro.au) |
| 00:02.54 | MohammadAG | ThreeM, and my real name? |
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| 00:05.06 | ThreeM | for me, unique enough :) |
| 00:05.35 | user0 | hello again :) |
| 00:06.54 | user0 | DocScrutinizer : im trying to flash it with phoenix atm |
| 00:07.00 | user0 | you think that would work ? |
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| 00:18.05 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, sure you didn't fire up my ZNC? |
| 00:18.12 | MohammadAG | cause I can't find a reason there's another Mohammad- |
| 00:19.41 | MohammadAG | user0, no reason to use pheonix, flasher does it better |
| 00:19.45 | MohammadAG | anyway, night |
| 00:21.46 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you'd be able to tell by hostname, user realname... |
| 00:24.26 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: /whois |
| 00:24.59 | DocScrutinizer | [671] Mohammad- is using a secure connection is using a secure connection |
| 00:26.14 | user0 | DocScrutinizer : why did you suggest that i take it to some shop that has pheonix ? |
| 00:27.12 | user0 | phoenix* |
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| 00:38.36 | Jef91 | Anyone know if there is an easy way to get debian squeeze running on the n900? Easy Debian is using lenny still |
| 00:39.12 | DocScrutinizer | because the phenix flashing software is what Nokia is using in their service manual to e.g. reset lock code |
| 00:41.08 | DocScrutinizer | so it's obviously the only "official" way to reflash CAL partition that has the lock key hash, among other system parameters |
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| 00:44.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: seems there's been a netsplit |
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| 01:14.22 | Sazpaimon | does the n900 support wireless broadcast mode for wifi tethering |
| 01:14.30 | Sazpaimon | not adhoc mode |
| 01:15.11 | Sazpaimon | broadcast aka infrastructure mode |
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| 02:05.21 | GeneralAntilles | Bwahaha |
| 02:05.33 | GeneralAntilles | James Shields, complete game shutout against the Red Sox. |
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| 02:09.30 | DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.pennystore/joerg900.10129 |
| 02:20.28 | timeless | looks for a finnish speaker |
| 02:20.39 | timeless | Kertoiko sinua palvellut Ifin asiantuntija mahdollisista puutteista vakuutusturvassasi |
| 02:20.44 | timeless | can someone translate that? |
| 02:20.49 | timeless | the best i can get from google is: |
| 02:20.57 | timeless | Did you served as an expert of If possible deficiencies in their insurance cover? |
| 02:26.32 | DocScrutinizer | sounds like hiring spam |
| 02:27.17 | timeless | it's a customer satisfaction survey |
| 02:27.53 | DocScrutinizer | you got expertise in consulting customers about possible deficiencies in their insurance coverage |
| 02:28.54 | DocScrutinizer | THEN JOIN OUR TEAM YEAH! |
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| 02:30.05 | DocScrutinizer | pumpgun and steel shoes for free - every police over 50 a day gets you a special remuneration |
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| 02:35.47 | DocScrutinizer | unsolicited spam ahead (duck and cover): http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/free-and-open-replacement-wireless-lan |
| 02:39.03 | ds3 | now if we can get all the opensource hardware to support that protocol... |
| 02:39.20 | timeless | pokes sp3000 |
| 02:39.47 | Sazpaimon | GeneralAntilles, Roy Halladay is still better |
| 02:40.00 | Sazpaimon | just throwing that out there |
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| 02:40.06 | timeless | hrm, you're probably asleep |
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| 02:40.37 | timeless | luke-jr: ipv6 irc? |
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| 02:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: huh? I wonder if you're read the page |
| 02:44.59 | ds3 | yes, I did read the page |
| 02:45.04 | ds3 | did I miss something? |
| 02:45.06 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: you can even build yourself if you want |
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| 02:45.15 | ds3 | I mean designed in |
| 02:45.36 | ds3 | and have multivendor support... I think the old chipcon stuff can do it too |
| 02:45.54 | DocScrutinizer | aiui Wolfgang plans to build it in to next Ben palmtop device |
| 02:46.28 | DocScrutinizer | with an itsy bitsy help from me |
| 02:46.37 | ds3 | that's one device |
| 02:46.43 | ds3 | want more things supporting it |
| 02:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 02:47.36 | ds3 | maybe a watch ;) |
| 02:50.05 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen alterego |
| 02:50.09 | infobot | alterego is currently on #meego. Has said a total of 85 messages. Is idling for 4h 28m 54s, last said: 'I should probably head to bed soon.'. |
| 02:51.10 | ds3 | i wish the ben palmtop thing was an ARM based device |
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| 02:52.10 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: /join #qi-hardware and discuss it |
| 02:52.13 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
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| 03:42.19 | luke-jr | timeless: ? |
| 03:42.33 | luke-jr | timeless: I've only been connecting over IPv6 for like 2 years now� |
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| 04:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: shall I kick your alter ego? |
| 04:36.52 | GeneralAntilles | Sazpaimon, considering his salary is $20 mil, he damn well better be. :rolleyes: |
| 04:37.13 | GeneralAntilles | Sazpaimon, otherwise I'd say you guys are getting ripped off. |
| 04:44.52 | Sazpaimon | GeneralAntilles, sallary doesn't mean much in terms of performance |
| 04:45.52 | Sazpaimon | how a player jives with a team means a lot more |
| 04:46.42 | Sazpaimon | look at jayson werth |
| 04:47.02 | Sazpaimon | he's a great player, but $126 millon? |
| 04:49.36 | Sazpaimon | he also can't singlehandedly hold up a terrible team like the nats |
| 04:51.54 | DocScrutinizer | where's optonline.net located? |
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| 05:03.04 | GAN900 | Sazpaimon, that's why the Rays are so awesome. :) |
| 05:04.19 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: are you running a ZNC? |
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| 05:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | wonders who's faking MohammadAG, in connect-i-cut |
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| 05:09.47 | Jef91 | Anyone know where easy debian mounts it's chroot to by default? |
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| 05:10.11 | GAN900 | irssi proxy |
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| 05:10.21 | Frampis | hi guys |
| 05:10.50 | Frampis | I have a weird problem on maemo on N900, I was playing Doom and it crashed and now my keyboard layout is messed up |
| 05:10.56 | Frampis | everywhere, not just in the game |
| 05:11.24 | Frampis | . works as left, left works as down and ä works as up |
| 05:11.36 | SpeedEvil | reboot, or start doom and stop it |
| 05:11.40 | SpeedEvil | at a guess |
| 05:11.46 | Frampis | I've got the Finnish unit so I've got a scandinavian layout |
| 05:11.50 | Frampis | rebooted, didn't fix it |
| 05:11.56 | Frampis | restarted the game and closed it |
| 05:11.58 | Frampis | without it crashing |
| 05:12.00 | Frampis | didn't fix it |
| 05:12.37 | Frampis | is there some command for resetting the keyboard layout or something? |
| 05:14.02 | DocScrutinizer | try settings - keyboard - layout |
| 05:14.17 | dm8tbr | Frampis: sounds like you have the intl or US layout now |
| 05:14.26 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 05:14.43 | DocScrutinizer | and obviously doom is doing something *NASTY* |
| 05:14.58 | dm8tbr | yes, same thought. sounds like a bug |
| 05:15.09 | DocScrutinizer | like storing current keymap and restoring it on normal quit |
| 05:15.25 | DocScrutinizer | that's a bug for sure, but a fubar bug |
| 05:16.16 | Frampis | thanks guys |
| 05:16.25 | DocScrutinizer | restarting doom won't help as it backup-stores his own mess of last segfault |
| 05:16.36 | Frampis | yeah I was overthinking this, forgot to check the actual GUI settings menu :D |
| 05:17.12 | Frampis | I found the setting and had to change it back |
| 05:17.22 | DocScrutinizer | insane idiocy to load a new keymap to deal with key meanings |
| 05:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | Frampis: so you did what doom is supposed to do on quit: restore the keymap that's been there on doom-start |
| 05:18.33 | Frampis | seems that way, yes |
| 05:18.48 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart doom and its devels |
| 05:18.48 | infobot | drops a truckload of VAXen on doom and its devels |
| 05:19.14 | DocScrutinizer | that should cure it |
| 05:19.27 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 05:19.48 | Frampis | the port is actually called PrBoom |
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| 05:19.59 | Frampis | I was trying to get a doom 2 wad to work but it just crashed |
| 05:20.28 | Frampis | whatever, I wasn't gonna play it anyway. |
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| 05:26.14 | Sazpaimon | why does the N900 need a custom doom port |
| 05:26.23 | Sazpaimon | couldnt someone just compile boom or zdoom? |
| 05:27.31 | Sazpaimon | unless you wanted to turn using the touchscreen and shoot by tapping |
| 05:27.36 | Sazpaimon | but that'd be awkward |
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| 06:15.20 | robbiethe1st | Hey guys. Does anyone know if we can modify the usb-connection screen? The one with "mass storage" and "PC suite" modes? |
| 06:19.04 | Frampis | what do you want to do with it? |
| 06:19.09 | Frampis | host mode gui or something? |
| 06:20.54 | robbiethe1st | I was thinking in terms of adding a couple extra buttons, allowing for only the SD card OR MyDocs to be chosen for mass storage |
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| 06:21.24 | robbiethe1st | and also, see about a mode that would allow for *both* mass storage mode as well as USB networking |
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| 07:18.35 | Guest12410 | i am very new with using N900 . i have just run simpletest program written using ARToolkit APIs on my PC ubuntu10.10 . i want to port this program on my N900 mobile.Can anybody help me in process of installing and running this program or can provide me some useful link |
| 07:18.53 | Guest12410 | please help... I am really stuck at this point |
| 07:21.18 | Guest12410 | please provide me some useful link regarding above stated problem. |
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| 07:21.27 | Appiah | http://maemo.org/development/ Guest12410 |
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| 07:23.35 | Guest12410 | @appiah - thank you for helping me out. I just wanted to know that if i want to port a sample porgram written using ARToolkit APIs on my N900 then i have to do learn maemo 5 also |
| 07:23.56 | ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/15/review_asus_eee_pad_transformer/ <-- hmm |
| 07:24.49 | Appiah | I have no idea on what ARToolkit APIs is so I wouldn't know |
| 07:25.16 | joga | I've tried it...I don't think there is an arm port of it but not sure |
| 07:25.35 | Appiah | Tried just compiling your software for arm and just running it on n900? |
| 07:26.04 | Guest12410 | @joga-- Can you tell me which are the libraries i need to port on my N900 mobile so that my porgram runs fine |
| 07:26.27 | Appiah | O_o |
| 07:26.33 | joga | Guest12410, no, I don't know sorry, you need to find it out on your own and if you feel capable of porting it, finding it out wouldn't be hard in comparison |
| 07:27.57 | Guest12410 | ok thank you both of you. |
| 07:28.06 | Guest12410 | thank you very much. |
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| 07:35.55 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 07:36.02 | RST38h | HELO ladies and gentlemen |
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| 07:54.15 | cloudyLights | ~seen khertan |
| 07:54.21 | infobot | khertan <~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-180-120.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 18h 7m 13s ago, saying: 'cloudyLights, what your app does ?'. |
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| 08:15.13 | mece | hello maemonians |
| 08:15.51 | _trine | mece, we are a dying race |
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| 08:34.51 | RST38h | moos at crashanddie |
| 08:35.01 | crashanddie | moo |
| 08:35.05 | gomiam | baaaa |
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| 08:35.18 | RST38h | crash: I have done the impossible by making sound work in Android! |
| 08:35.22 | gomiam | (yes, what am I doing getting into a cownversation?) |
| 08:35.31 | cloudyLights | khertan: hi there |
| 08:35.40 | cloudyLights | khertan: remember me from yesterday? |
| 08:35.44 | crashanddie | RST38h, sound didn't work in Android? |
| 08:35.55 | crashanddie | RST38h, I figured that was kindof a useful feature for a phone |
| 08:36.01 | crashanddie | Oh, you mean on the N900? |
| 08:36.15 | RST38h | crash: Oh it does work |
| 08:36.22 | khertan | cloudyLights, yep ... did you successfully package your app ? |
| 08:36.43 | cloudyLights | khertan: in http://khertan.net/articles/maemo/pypackager_howto I see the line: |
| 08:36.45 | RST38h | crash: But the native API is OpenSL, brought to you by the same mentally ill people ad OpenGL |
| 08:36.58 | cloudyLights | p["/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages"] = files |
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| 08:37.06 | RST38h | Ok, not entirely mentally ill, just crazy =) |
| 08:37.21 | cloudyLights | khertan: what does that line mean and waht should I change it to? |
| 08:37.46 | cloudyLights | is there a command to post a file from the N900 to a pastebin? |
| 08:37.48 | RST38h | The 800-page pdf never explain how to play normal, pcm sound |
| 08:37.58 | khertan | cloudyLights, hum ... i most of the time put my python package in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages |
| 08:38.15 | khertan | and files is what os.walk found in the folder |
| 08:38.27 | khertan | p is a dictionnary |
| 08:38.56 | khertan | with install path as key, and current local path as value |
| 08:39.34 | khertan | exemple : you want to put script1.py script2.py and script3.py in /opt/myuberscript |
| 08:39.54 | khertan | script1.py are located in the same folder as your pypackager script |
| 08:40.23 | cloudyLights | ok |
| 08:40.26 | khertan | p['/opt/myubserscript'] = ['script1.py','script2.py', 'script3.py'] |
| 08:41.06 | cloudyLights | mhow can I pastebin my make.py from my N900 now? |
| 08:41.11 | cloudyLights | I want to show you |
| 08:41.33 | khertan | use your n900 browser :) |
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| 08:47.54 | cloudyLights | khertan: http://paste.ubuntu.com/627182/ |
| 08:48.21 | cloudyLights | I didnt put any files in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages as I didnt understand why |
| 08:48.41 | cloudyLights | my files are at /usr/lib/switchProfByMeeting |
| 08:48.49 | crashanddie | RST38h, yeah, I have a bit of experience with massively big pdf files "explaining" how to implement something -- I feel for you |
| 08:49.03 | RST38h | crash: Oh, you cannot imagine... |
| 08:49.34 | crashanddie | Well, I spent last night trying to understand the g723, g726, g727 and g729 codecs, so yeah, I can imagine :P> |
| 08:49.41 | RST38h | crash: These maniacs have redefined all the basic types, created their own COM-like framework, added support for media streaming, media metadata, special effects, etc |
| 08:49.44 | khertan | cloudyLights, so you can comment also the things below #src |
| 08:50.00 | khertan | cloudyLights, and you should enable binary build at last line |
| 08:50.10 | RST38h | crash: All that in order to implement an audio API. |
| 08:50.24 | crashanddie | ok, that is pretty bad. |
| 08:50.36 | RST38h | crash; And the PDF is not really explaining anything, it is just listing endless interfaces |
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| 08:51.07 | khertan | cloudyLights, there will be only one file writen, as you overwrite the dict key value on line 41 and 42 |
| 08:51.34 | khertan | ps ubuntu pastebin suck you can't correct and reply |
| 08:53.37 | khertan | cloudyLights, http://pastebin.com/Hj1gvimx |
| 08:54.28 | cloudyLights | http://paste.ubuntu.com/627186/ ? |
| 08:55.02 | cloudyLights | o ok |
| 08:55.07 | cloudyLights | let me see |
| 08:58.10 | edheldil | RST38h: OpenGL is not *that* bad |
| 08:59.35 | Arpa-MST | is away (Arpa Systems) |
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| 09:20.30 | cloudyLights | khertan: ok your lines helped and now I see switchProfByMeeting_0.0.1-1_armel.deb |
| 09:20.53 | cloudyLights | how can I ask dpkg to list the files without installing it |
| 09:20.54 | cloudyLights | ? |
| 09:21.43 | khertan | cloudyLights, dpkg -c {.Deb package} |
| 09:23.03 | cloudyLights | want to try? |
| 09:23.25 | cloudyLights | its very simple and shoulndt kill your N900 |
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| 09:25.06 | khertan | cloudyLights, i'm currently trying to implement theme to qt in meego de |
| 09:25.26 | khertan | so didn't have too much time for this :) |
| 09:25.27 | khertan | sorry |
| 09:25.36 | cloudyLights | np |
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| 09:27.45 | cloudyLights | khertan: thanks a lot |
| 09:27.56 | cloudyLights | can I also run it on a pc? |
| 09:28.03 | cloudyLights | I assume I can |
| 09:29.27 | khertan | yep you should be able to install it with the python setup tools |
| 09:29.35 | khertan | (easy_install install pypackager) |
| 09:29.44 | khertan | as it s availble on the pypi index |
| 09:29.50 | khertan | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pypackager/3.0.20 |
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| 09:39.39 | MohammadAG | khertan, yay, a Qt theme |
| 09:40.43 | khertan | shut |
| 09:40.44 | khertan | :) |
| 09:41.10 | khertan | i ve got so many problem that i didn't think it ll work one day |
| 09:46.22 | Shapeshifter | So, I want to watch this episode, the built-in player is completely ignorant and tells me the file has an invalid type or something, while mplayer reports that it's an 848x480 H264, 900kbps avi with an mp3 audio track. If I want to play it I hear the first half second of audio and the then audio disappears, while the video is stuttery but close to smooth. How do I get it to play smoothly? |
| 09:47.00 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: Find it in a different format on the torrent? |
| 09:47.02 | robbiethe1st | tried with mplayer? |
| 09:47.21 | Shapeshifter | robbiethe1st: I'm saying mplayer above. |
| 09:47.29 | robbiethe1st | So use it? |
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| 09:47.37 | robbiethe1st | Or.. |
| 09:47.43 | robbiethe1st | hm |
| 09:47.58 | robbiethe1st | That's odd, then... |
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| 09:52.08 | Shapeshifter | "Unable to play media. Media format not supported" is what the built-in player says. That player is terrible anyway. |
| 09:52.27 | Shapeshifter | I even have decoders-support |
| 09:53.56 | T-Co_ | Is there a navigation software for N900 that would have voice guiding? |
| 09:53.57 | robbiethe1st | hm... Try with kmplayer |
| 09:54.20 | robbiethe1st | It seems to be good at wrapping mplayer and selecting good options to play something |
| 09:54.31 | nid0 | mappero sortof has it |
| 09:55.15 | T-Co_ | sort of? |
| 09:55.28 | nid0 | well its there, but takes some manual setup to get working |
| 09:55.46 | HRH_H_Crab | my biggest gripe with the built in media player is lack of gapless mp3 playback. |
| 09:56.22 | HRH_H_Crab | i always expect i might have to do a bit of transcoding of video |
| 09:56.39 | HRH_H_Crab | and that actually happens pretty raarely |
| 09:57.05 | T-Co_ | nid0, Ok, care to give some pointers, a good howto perhaps, if you know. (I can google too, of course :)) |
| 09:57.20 | crashanddie | HRH_H_Crab, have you tried the community media player? |
| 09:57.35 | crashanddie | HRH_H_Crab, it's a drop-in replacement for the built-in media player, graphically identical, with some extra features |
| 09:57.54 | HRH_H_Crab | hmm i wasnt aware of that |
| 09:58.10 | HRH_H_Crab | ill have to check it out |
| 09:58.19 | HRH_H_Crab | thanks for the tip |
| 09:58.22 | crashanddie | plus, it's open source, so we can add features |
| 09:58.37 | RST38h | crash: does it support themes already? |
| 09:58.39 | nid0 | T-Co_: your best bet would be the mammoth mappero thread on TMO, it should all be documented there. Sygic is another option, but isnt free |
| 09:58.55 | crashanddie | RST38h, no idea, I haven't looked at it in months |
| 09:58.57 | T-Co_ | nid0, Thanks |
| 10:00.07 | Shapeshifter | robbiethe1st: thanks. kmplayer is an improvement, the sound at least plays constantly. too stuttery though. |
| 10:00.26 | T-Co | nid0, I tried Marble and it works great, expect that it wont play the voices... |
| 10:00.47 | robbiethe1st | Hm, there ought to be a way to play it. you may need to, perhaps, use a converter to switch the container format |
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| 10:01.03 | robbiethe1st | to, say, mp4 or maby mkv |
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| 10:02.17 | Shapeshifter | robbiethe1st: the cpu is at 100%, I would assume the n900 is simply to slow for this |
| 10:02.44 | robbiethe1st | Shapeshifter: Yes. But we've got hardware-decoding for a couple of formats, if you can get the right codecs to decode it |
| 10:02.53 | robbiethe1st | h264 is one of them |
| 10:03.05 | MohammadAG | <RST38h> crash: does it support themes already? |
| 10:03.11 | robbiethe1st | If you can get the stock player to play it, it'll work, I think |
| 10:03.15 | MohammadAG | it supported themes from the start since it loads the same images |
| 10:03.35 | Shapeshifter | robbiethe1st: but not mplayer iirc. mplayer cannot use the hw-acceleration is what I thought |
| 10:03.38 | RST38h | ! |
| 10:03.47 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, gapless playback is something to be implemented in mafw-gst-renderer |
| 10:03.49 | RST38h | wonders if the volume control bug is gone then =) |
| 10:03.57 | robbiethe1st | Correct, though it may be possible with some very convoluted options. |
| 10:04.11 | MohammadAG | RST38h, what bug? |
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| 10:04.36 | Shapeshifter | crashanddie: what's the name of that community player? |
| 10:04.38 | RST38h | Mohammad: the volume control in the original media player always shows up with the gray background of fixed color |
| 10:04.51 | RST38h | Mohammad: they forgot to make it themeable |
| 10:05.27 | robbiethe1st | Shapeshifter: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63554 |
| 10:06.31 | cloudyLights | Shapeshifter: gi |
| 10:06.35 | cloudyLights | Shapeshifter: hi |
| 10:06.49 | Shapeshifter | cloudyLights: hi there |
| 10:06.53 | Shapeshifter | robbiethe1st: thanks |
| 10:07.06 | robbiethe1st | I wonder... http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Tips_and_Tricks/DSP |
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| 10:07.42 | cloudyLights | if anyone here care to see this app I wrote |
| 10:07.57 | cloudyLights | it switchs the profile according to the calender |
| 10:08.02 | ruskie | is it this one: http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/15/pin_spy_app_pulled/ ;) |
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| 10:08.55 | cloudyLights | I hope to get someone else try it before I post it in the forum |
| 10:09.13 | MohammadAG | RST38h, oh, haven't seen that in OMP |
| 10:10.14 | MohammadAG | so who has the C skills to implement gapless playback? |
| 10:10.20 | robbiethe1st | Shapeshifter: Hm, we might be able to use dsp decoding with gstreamer - "gstreamer0.10-dsp" in the repos |
| 10:10.33 | crashanddie | I do |
| 10:10.36 | crashanddie | But... cba |
| 10:10.41 | cloudyLights | let me ask: does anyone need an app to silence the phone when in a meeting then bring it back to general? |
| 10:10.53 | crashanddie | Erhm |
| 10:10.57 | crashanddie | Isn't there "profiles" for that? |
| 10:11.11 | cloudyLights | right |
| 10:11.30 | crashanddie | I'd like something that modifies profiles based on GPS |
| 10:11.30 | cloudyLights | but the profile doesnt change back to general after the meeting ends |
| 10:11.37 | cloudyLights | me too |
| 10:11.41 | crashanddie | (well, if GPS were a viable long-term alternative) |
| 10:11.42 | cloudyLights | will soon offer it |
| 10:11.56 | crashanddie | You could make a "conference joiner" |
| 10:11.59 | cloudyLights | first I need it to alert me when I am near my station |
| 10:12.01 | crashanddie | Or try to add it to the calendar |
| 10:12.31 | crashanddie | so that the phone automatically joins a phone conference, waits and types the codes required to enter the conference room |
| 10:12.37 | Jaffa | GPS indoors is going to be poor, and battery drain :-( |
| 10:12.54 | crashanddie | Jaffa, which is what I said with "if it were a viable long-term alternative) |
| 10:13.01 | MohammadAG | <crashanddie> I do <-- and the gstreamer skills? |
| 10:13.13 | crashanddie | gstreamer isn't that hard. |
| 10:13.55 | Shapeshifter | gstreamer is a terrible mess |
| 10:14.55 | crashanddie | Shapeshifter, you've never worked in my company I take it ;) |
| 10:15.03 | crashanddie | Compared to some of our products, gstreamer is a work of art. |
| 10:16.15 | Shapeshifter | crashanddie: I used gstreamer once for a project of mine and I've never been more frustrated with a library. A fraction of it is decent, a large part of it is badly documented and awkward, and a good lump of it is just absolutely terrible. |
| 10:16.40 | Shapeshifter | especially the documentation is incredibly bad. the whole API... |
| 10:17.04 | cloudyLights | I will use tower ID to now I am near my bus station |
| 10:17.40 | Shapeshifter | core and base are well documented, but it goes steeply downhill from there |
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| 10:20.56 | Jaffa | cloudyLights: Chat to lardman - he's planning a framework (called "Proximus") which would make writing this app easy |
| 10:21.11 | Jaffa | cloudyLights: http://wiki.maemo.org/Proximus |
| 10:21.27 | cloudyLights | thanks mate |
| 10:21.50 | cloudyLights | as I am not working with maemo and I am at work |
| 10:23.18 | cloudyLights | I got so excited with khertan help and having to finally package my program |
| 10:23.42 | cloudyLights | then I had a work amte ask so many cifs questions |
| 10:23.48 | cloudyLights | back to work |
| 10:24.00 | cloudyLights | wish I could do these chats at night |
| 10:31.38 | Venemo | what the heck is this? http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmd8j77siG1qcakwko1_500.jpg srsly? |
| 10:32.45 | Venemo | MohammadAG, is gapless playback need to be implemented in MAFW or in gstreamer or in the media player? |
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| 10:35.58 | MohammadAG | mafw |
| 10:36.05 | MohammadAG | gstreamer already has an about to finish signal |
| 10:37.54 | MohammadAG | LOL @ the image Venemo |
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| 10:38.05 | Venemo | MohammadAG, yeah LOL indeed |
| 10:38.11 | Venemo | MohammadAG, maybe https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=440952 could give a clue |
| 10:38.13 | povbot | 04Bug 440952: was not found. |
| 10:38.47 | Venemo | MohammadAG, or this: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=130426 |
| 10:38.48 | povbot | 04Bug 130426: was not found. |
| 10:38.52 | Venemo | povbot, you are stupid |
| 10:38.52 | povbot | Venemo: Error: "you" is not a valid command. |
| 10:38.57 | Venemo | xD |
| 10:40.40 | MohammadAG | Venemo, I could do a proof of concept with gstreamer |
| 10:40.45 | MohammadAG | I think I could at least |
| 10:40.58 | MohammadAG | just start playing another file when the old one is about to finish |
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| 10:41.11 | MohammadAG | the PS3 does gapless playback best imo |
| 10:41.24 | Venemo | MohammadAG, start _decoding_ the new file when the old one is about to finish - then you can start playing immediately |
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| 10:42.34 | cloudyLights | I just hope that in case the N9 does come out I can see it in the subject here... |
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| 10:42.59 | Venemo | cloudyLights, the news will be full of it |
| 10:43.26 | cloudyLights | yet I dont check the news any more |
| 10:43.33 | cloudyLights | prefer to make news.... |
| 10:43.44 | *** join/#maemo drussell (~dave@82.132.248.197) |
| 10:44.06 | Venemo | cloudyLights, for example? |
| 10:44.16 | cloudyLights | write good applications |
| 10:44.22 | Venemo | MohammadAG, banshee's gapless playback does indeed work |
| 10:44.25 | Venemo | cloudyLights :) |
| 10:45.22 | cloudyLights | I mean there is too much text regarding meego/N9 and yet some usefull stuff are missing |
| 10:45.28 | Venemo | MohammadAG, why don't we just code a mobile GUI for banshee and forget about mafw? |
| 10:45.36 | cloudyLights | I still think most of thesmart phones are not so smart |
| 10:45.50 | Venemo | cloudyLights, N9 is mostly rumors |
| 10:46.04 | cloudyLights | but most ppl NEED some usefull apps |
| 10:46.10 | cloudyLights | not browser and games |
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| 10:46.38 | Venemo | cloudyLights, I agree |
| 10:47.15 | cloudyLights | a good calender for example doesnt make a phone smart |
| 10:47.33 | cloudyLights | but it is missing in my N900 and I had such in the palm E3 |
| 10:49.03 | Venemo | cloudyLights, well, N900's calendar sort of works |
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| 10:49.37 | cloudyLights | for example that program that told what train to take from muenchen was usefull |
| 10:50.03 | cloudyLights | usefull app: how to get to that book store from here now |
| 10:50.41 | Venemo | cloudyLights, yeah, mapping apps are useful |
| 10:50.54 | MohammadAG | Venemo, banshee isn't the best player imo |
| 10:51.13 | MohammadAG | I recognizes songs by extension rather than mime type for example |
| 10:51.18 | MohammadAG | it* |
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| 10:51.39 | Venemo | MohammadAG, do you know that for a fact? |
| 10:51.53 | MohammadAG | yes |
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| 10:54.53 | cloudyLights | a phone is smart if it can tell me where I left it |
| 10:55.14 | cloudyLights | or where I left my music on it |
| 10:55.35 | cloudyLights | assuming you use 32Gb and dont know where the album is at |
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| 11:43.45 | Shapeshifter | cloudyLights: :| |
| 11:44.07 | cloudyLights | are you the guy that help ppl in mythtv? |
| 11:44.16 | cloudyLights | that mysql wizard? |
| 11:44.29 | Shapeshifter | cloudyLights: huh, not at all. I dislike relational databases. |
| 11:44.48 | cloudyLights | o ok |
| 11:52.01 | SpeedEvil | 00 |
| 11:52.03 | SpeedEvil | ] |
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| 12:07.01 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, using the initrd image to install MeeGo on the eMMC, apparently it doesn't have the mtd blocks at all |
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| 12:16.47 | Venemo | MohammadAG, or you could go to GimpNet and join #rhythmbox or #banshee to see how they implemented gapless playback |
| 12:18.17 | MohammadAG | Venemo, cross fade engine afaik |
| 12:18.55 | Appiah | that |
| 12:18.57 | Appiah | would |
| 12:18.58 | Appiah | be |
| 12:19.01 | Appiah | great! |
| 12:19.03 | Venemo | MohammadAG, it is not crossfading, definitely |
| 12:19.15 | Appiah | only thing I dont like about the music player |
| 12:19.29 | Appiah | that gap between songs which ruins some albums |
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| 12:21.02 | MohammadAG | Venemo, it is in ryhtmbox |
| 12:21.10 | MohammadAG | the option says use cross fading |
| 12:21.31 | Venemo | MohammadAG, yes, rhythmbox uses crossfading, banshee doesn not (seem to) |
| 12:22.01 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure if banshee uses it |
| 12:22.02 | MohammadAG | checks |
| 12:22.35 | Venemo | their UI contains an "enable gapless playback" option |
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| 12:23.27 | Venemo | MohammadAG, I tested it with some Mike Oldfield albums, and it indeed works |
| 12:23.34 | MohammadAG | nope, there's still a gap for me |
| 12:23.41 | Venemo | weird. |
| 12:23.54 | MohammadAG | none of the mediaplayers I've used do it like the PS3 |
| 12:23.56 | Venemo | what version is that? |
| 12:24.06 | MohammadAG | Banshee 2.0 (2.0.0) |
| 12:24.13 | Venemo | hm |
| 12:24.18 | MohammadAG | the gap is small, but it's there |
| 12:24.23 | Venemo | I have 2.0.1, and there is no gap at all |
| 12:24.38 | MohammadAG | the PS3 lowers the volume of the first track, merges the second track and raises the volume of that |
| 12:24.39 | achipa | MohammadAG: heya |
| 12:24.49 | Venemo | note that some songs do have a gap at their ends |
| 12:24.53 | MohammadAG | in effect, the two songs are merged together without any noticeable gap |
| 12:24.59 | MohammadAG | achipa, hi |
| 12:25.15 | achipa | MohammadAG: what's the final word on that Qt 4.7.2+ stuff ? did you manage to get a fix for the raster/rendering bug ? |
| 12:25.16 | MohammadAG | Venemo, nope, works fine on my PS3 |
| 12:25.28 | Venemo | MohammadAG, that is called crossfading |
| 12:25.29 | MohammadAG | achipa, no, but I checked 4.8 and it doesn't have the bug |
| 12:25.42 | achipa | MohammadAG: oooh, even better |
| 12:25.44 | MohammadAG | the CSSU reverted back to 4.7.0 with some patches |
| 12:25.51 | Venemo | anyway, look at rhythmbox's inspiration |
| 12:25.52 | MohammadAG | achipa, 4.7.4 has the bug otoh |
| 12:26.16 | achipa | if 4.8 works, we should take that one |
| 12:26.24 | MohammadAG | achipa, however 4.8 is a release candidate for now (or a beta, not sure) |
| 12:26.31 | MohammadAG | it lacks hildonization |
| 12:26.34 | Venemo | achipa, it requires additional dependencies which are not available on Maemo |
| 12:26.45 | MohammadAG | yeah, that too |
| 12:26.52 | achipa | Venemo: that was the "if"... |
| 12:26.53 | MohammadAG | it needs a newer glib to build QtDBus |
| 12:27.08 | achipa | does it really need it (find it hard to believe) |
| 12:27.12 | Venemo | MohammadAG, does anything stop us from upgrading glib as well? |
| 12:27.22 | MohammadAG | achipa, it needs one call |
| 12:27.41 | MohammadAG | Venemo, no, but I'd ask javispedro since I have no idea how glib ties with the rest of the system |
| 12:28.04 | Venemo | MohammadAG, basically everything that begins with g depends on glib |
| 12:28.07 | achipa | I would file a bug against it if it's not abysmally difficult to ifdef it |
| 12:28.21 | Venemo | MohammadAG, but it's worth a try |
| 12:29.22 | MohammadAG | latest MeeGo daily image is quite fast btw |
| 12:30.00 | Scelt | MohammadAG: there has been a lot to improve |
| 12:30.06 | T-Co | Can it already be installed to N900? |
| 12:30.38 | MohammadAG | meh, Kasvopus hanged on it |
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| 12:32.22 | MohammadAG | k, I'm actually impressed with MeeGo, if only they would settle on a standard UI toolkit (QML isn't standard) |
| 12:32.54 | trx | MohammadAG do you have MeeGo installed? |
| 12:33.19 | SpeedEvil | wants athena widgets. |
| 12:33.21 | trx | can you please check if proximity sensor info is in the same location? |
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| 12:33.29 | jaska | Xaw?:D |
| 12:33.30 | SpeedEvil | A nice standard toolkit, that everyone knows. |
| 12:33.51 | jaska | blood pressure doubled |
| 12:33.52 | SpeedEvil | Let's put the backwards in backwards compatibility! |
| 12:34.23 | MohammadAG | basically, they're pushing QML everywhere |
| 12:34.28 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure that's the right choice |
| 12:34.35 | MohammadAG | trx, same location? |
| 12:34.37 | Venemo | MohammadAG, QML isn't (won't be?) a bad thing. |
| 12:34.56 | jaska | mobilemotif |
| 12:35.01 | SpeedEvil | qml won't be a bad thing if it achieves market success. |
| 12:35.24 | MohammadAG | all OSs were doing it right at one point |
| 12:35.30 | MohammadAG | Maemo 5, iOS, Android, Symbian |
| 12:35.36 | MohammadAG | iOS did it best though |
| 12:35.41 | trx | MohammadAG, like on maemo there is "sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state" |
| 12:35.53 | trx | my SD card is dead |
| 12:36.01 | trx | so i cant check myself |
| 12:36.03 | SpeedEvil | trx: QML isn't getting it right either - for example - the accellerometer driver polls. |
| 12:36.13 | MohammadAG | then came QML, and each application has a new UI that needs time to get used to |
| 12:36.17 | jhb | hi *, I am trying out the omvoiceserver for maps, it seems to recoginize the existance of espeak (which works from cli), but the test button doesn't do anything. Any hints? |
| 12:37.13 | trx | SpeedEvil it does? |
| 12:37.31 | MohammadAG | trx, no SD card in my N900 :p |
| 12:37.47 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, that would be Qt Mobility |
| 12:37.53 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, accelerometer driver isn't related to QML.... |
| 12:37.54 | MohammadAG | oh cool |
| 12:37.56 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I'm barely awake |
| 12:38.06 | SpeedEvil | My sleep cycle is broken. |
| 12:38.07 | trx | yeah, qt mobility |
| 12:38.15 | MohammadAG | the new MeeGo terminal has pinch to zoom, remind me how one can pinch on a single touch screen? |
| 12:38.16 | trx | MohammadAG ok, nevermind then :) |
| 12:38.39 | MohammadAG | trx, point is, I have MeeGo on the eMMC :p |
| 12:38.44 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, MohammadAG, MeeGo's Qt Mobility seems to do the right thing (only MeeGo kernel's accelerometer driver sucks) |
| 12:38.57 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: probably |
| 12:39.11 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: I shoul dwake up properly, and ivnestigate things before commenting. |
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| 12:39.19 | trx | MohammadAG oh :D |
| 12:39.20 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, I know this for a fact ( DocScrutinizer and myself investigated the matter) |
| 12:40.29 | achipa | MohammadAG: iOS is not doing that good regarding toolking... cocoa is starting to show it's age and now they have to revamp without breaking stuff... and that's always the most difficult part |
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| 12:41.05 | achipa | MohammadAG: and of course, the remark that QML is not a UI toolkit |
| 12:41.22 | MohammadAG | achipa, point is, most apps look the same on iOS |
| 12:41.29 | MohammadAG | and on Maemo/Android etc |
| 12:41.34 | MohammadAG | QML is breaking that |
| 12:41.42 | achipa | no it's not |
| 12:41.46 | Venemo | MohammadAG, not QML, but how people use QML |
| 12:41.54 | achipa | the (yet) unavailability of components does |
| 12:42.02 | achipa | but that's soon (TM) to change |
| 12:42.05 | MohammadAG | Venemo, I don't expect everyone to rewrite hildon for maemo 5 |
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| 12:42.32 | Venemo | MohammadAG, they don't need to. |
| 12:42.33 | achipa | you can see plenty of dumb iOS/Android 'apps' wrapped from web stuff that just looks awful |
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| 12:43.04 | Venemo | anyway, I think we all agree that QML itself is a good direction, but it isn't yet mature enough |
| 12:43.21 | MohammadAG | sorry, I don't think it's a good direction |
| 12:43.49 | achipa | at least it's a better direction than web and what Android does :) |
| 12:43.51 | Venemo | why not? |
| 12:44.13 | MohammadAG | what's wrong with QWidgets again? |
| 12:44.18 | MohammadAG | why deprecate those in favor of QML |
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| 12:46.38 | Venemo | MohammadAG, they will be working still |
| 12:46.54 | trx | i don't like the fact that they will be deprecated in the first place |
| 12:47.01 | MohammadAG | Venemo, I don't like working with deprecated APIs |
| 12:47.39 | MohammadAG | I prefer C++ than some JS-based language, if I wanted that I would've gone for WebOS |
| 12:48.31 | Venemo | MohammadAG, think of QML as a declarative GUI language and forget the fact that it's JS based |
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| 12:49.14 | MohammadAG | how can you forget it's JS based when the syntax is that of JS |
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| 12:54.07 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, do you really program in C++ though? :P |
| 12:54.17 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, I thought you were one of those cool Qt kids. |
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| 12:56.02 | MohammadAG | trx, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=EGNW5gZK |
| 12:56.12 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, that's C++ :p |
| 12:56.35 | SpeedEvil | Find is written in c++? |
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| 12:56.58 | trx | MohammadAG thanks |
| 12:56.59 | MohammadAG | no, that was a reply to what he said :p |
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| 12:59.01 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, Qt is far removed from C++ ;) |
| 12:59.19 | ThreeM | re |
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| 13:32.21 | achipa | MohammadAG: the biggest problem with QWidgets is that they were essentially a lowest-common-denominator wrappers |
| 13:32.57 | achipa | and QML has nothing to do with QWidgets, you could have had QML+QWidgets (and it would suck of course :) ) |
| 13:33.30 | MohammadAG | achipa, load average: 15.70, 10.79, 5.41 <-- isn't something that should happen :p |
| 13:33.32 | achipa | plus QWidgets are not *deprecated*, bud *done*, blah, blah |
| 13:33.45 | MohammadAG | I always get that they're deprecated on #meego |
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| 13:34.48 | achipa | MohammadAG: yes, because nobody maintains them on #meego, but that you can keep on using them on other platforms that DO have an interest in them |
| 13:35.31 | achipa | (wrapper story -> MeeGo doesn't have a native 'way' or 'style' which could be wrapped in QWidgets, so you would actually have to implement stuff, hence the lack of appeal) |
| 13:36.13 | achipa | The Maemo5 QWidgets would be also major suckage if they did not plug-in/reuse/integrate stuff from Hildon |
| 13:36.22 | achipa | (i.e. again, it's not QWidgets that you are missing) |
| 13:36.37 | MohammadAG | that's what MeeGo should do then, have a meego touch theme |
| 13:37.13 | MohammadAG | point is, I have to reimplement stuff whether I go with QWidgets or QML on MeeGo |
| 13:37.13 | achipa | MohammadAG: welcome to MTF |
| 13:37.23 | MohammadAG | achipa, MTF is deprecated |
| 13:38.04 | achipa | MohammadAG: yes, been there, done that :) |
| 13:38.11 | achipa | but eventually somebody realized that reinventing each wheel separately is not a good idea |
| 13:38.31 | MohammadAG | and QML isn't reinventing the wheel? :P |
| 13:38.48 | achipa | MTF would have been (and sort of is, if you look at Harmattan) a good solution, but it would solve the problem ONLY for MeeGo/Harmattan |
| 13:39.18 | achipa | QML is a foundation that can (at least theoretically ;) ) solve it for all platforms, and/or make it easier to change |
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| 13:39.24 | MohammadAG | MTF is a good widget set, except it breaks the whole code once deploy everywhere concept |
| 13:39.44 | achipa | exactly my point from 2 lines ago :) |
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| 13:40.12 | MohammadAG | having a theme for each system would've been easier :p |
| 13:40.42 | achipa | I would disagree, but hey, everyone can make an estimate :) |
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| 13:41.19 | Jaffa | And *this* is the problem that Qt Quick Components is supposed to address |
| 13:41.28 | Jaffa | Except on MeeGo. Unless you mean Harmattan. |
| 13:41.28 | achipa | also, most of the QML hatred (from C++, python, etc) comes from JS, not QML per se |
| 13:41.30 | Jaffa | <sigh /> |
| 13:42.01 | MohammadAG | achipa, isn't QML a glorified JS anyway? |
| 13:42.03 | javispedro | if QML is Qt Quick, QWidgets must be Qt Slow? |
| 13:42.17 | javispedro | </lame> |
| 13:42.21 | javispedro | ;P |
| 13:42.22 | achipa | javispedro: but true |
| 13:42.24 | achipa | ;) |
| 13:42.36 | MohammadAG | QWidgets is way quicker than QML :P |
| 13:42.41 | MohammadAG | especially at long lists |
| 13:43.01 | achipa | MohammadAG: not really, has surprisingly little to do with JS actually |
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| 13:43.34 | MohammadAG | I wonder how long it'd take me to make a QML version of Sociality |
| 13:43.49 | MohammadAG | as a UI only |
| 13:44.04 | MohammadAG | the whole app took me 3 days to make it functional |
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| 13:44.21 | lcuk | MohammadAG, long lists of how long |
| 13:44.23 | achipa | MohammadAG: It's like saying HTML is a glorified JS... they are linked, but just because of historical reasons and inertia |
| 13:44.24 | MohammadAG | in QWidgets/C++ of course |
| 13:44.31 | MohammadAG | lcuk, 100+ I'd say |
| 13:44.32 | lcuk | are we talking 10s 100s 1000s |
| 13:44.34 | lcuk | right |
| 13:45.01 | lcuk | i heard someone complaining that a list with a couple of photos and a label were sluggish and non optimal beyond 6 items |
| 13:45.11 | achipa | MohammadAG: I can learn to play a piano piece in 3 days, I bet learning it on a flute would take me 100... |
| 13:45.18 | achipa | because I don't play a flute |
| 13:45.30 | achipa | that doesn't mean a piano is easier to play than a flute |
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| 13:45.49 | achipa | lcuk: rubbish or special case |
| 13:45.50 | lcuk | my cat can play the piano |
| 13:45.57 | lcuk | but he would not be able to play a flute |
| 13:46.09 | lcuk | i never said he was in tune or anything |
| 13:46.18 | lcuk | but his mass and inertia can press the keys :P |
| 13:46.43 | achipa | I guess this is the other way round... you can click around something in QML... but not with QWidgets... |
| 13:46.47 | lcuk | you should have seen him jump the first time he did it on jakes toy piano |
| 13:46.57 | lcuk | click around? |
| 13:47.09 | javispedro | QML is the best toolkit for making WP7-style panorama applications =) |
| 13:47.19 | lcuk | is it? |
| 13:47.24 | achipa | :) |
| 13:47.30 | javispedro | lcuk: well, that's all I know to do with it! |
| 13:47.49 | lcuk | javispedro, I have said this before: |
| 13:48.03 | lcuk | it is not the toolkit, but the IDE which differentiates utility |
| 13:48.08 | achipa | lcuk: there is a little bit of thinking involved in how you make your model - even QGV is fast enough for a 6 item list |
| 13:48.12 | lcuk | because the IDE turns your ideas into code |
| 13:48.25 | achipa | lcuk: but if you make a sh!+ model then yes, it will be jerky |
| 13:48.34 | lcuk | i agree achipa |
| 13:48.35 | MohammadAG | well, 254 QWidgets each showing an image scrolls through and works well |
| 13:48.44 | MohammadAG | I don't want to imagine that in QML |
| 13:48.52 | lcuk | it would be nice I expect |
| 13:48.52 | javispedro | lcuk: you have a point, as the qt creator qml designer resembles the ms wp7 designer much |
| 13:49.12 | lcuk | MohammadAG, qml is rapid (like other things) if you keep the nuimber of layers minimal |
| 13:49.19 | lcuk | even gtk is |
| 13:49.28 | javispedro | lcuk: the fact that I was constantly thinking about wp7 while plastering controls on the form probably is the reason I unconsciously made a panorama UI |
| 13:49.31 | MohammadAG | Qt works for long lists |
| 13:49.34 | lcuk | wonders why his fish are swimming backwards |
| 13:49.35 | MohammadAG | QML jerks a bit |
| 13:49.45 | MohammadAG | lcuk, Guinness in the pool? |
| 13:50.35 | lcuk | MohammadAG, http://liqbase.net/20110614_003.mp4 (2.5mb tiny) |
| 13:50.46 | MohammadAG | meh, I think I'll try QML, but only as a UI |
| 13:50.47 | lcuk | sketches of fish swimming in a liqflow pool :) |
| 13:50.53 | achipa | MohammadAG: when you say list, are you comparing the same base (i.e. same C++ model) or just stuff thrown in a scrollarea ? |
| 13:51.00 | MohammadAG | if I like it, I'll back it up with some C++ and make the switch |
| 13:51.15 | MohammadAG | achipa, latter |
| 13:51.37 | achipa | MohammadAG: well yes, of course QML will be slower, because you are not doing the same thing |
| 13:51.51 | lcuk | achipa, hm |
| 13:51.58 | lcuk | how come scrollarea is slow? |
| 13:52.02 | achipa | MohammadAG: what people don't realize is that QML is essentially the *SAME* c++ widget code |
| 13:52.04 | MohammadAG | achipa, shouldn't a QScrollArea behave the same way as a ScrollArea? |
| 13:52.10 | lcuk | technically a single moving backpane and showing the items onscreen? |
| 13:52.40 | lcuk | seeing as we are resolution limited, those items will be a fraction of all items |
| 13:52.47 | lcuk | or does qml/qt do extra to render? |
| 13:53.48 | achipa | lcuk: the QML ListView stuff is done with models |
| 13:54.05 | achipa | which is actually the more sane way to do it |
| 13:54.17 | javispedro | hrr |
| 13:54.21 | achipa | so that your memory/resource consumption does not depend on the size of the list, etc |
| 13:54.25 | MohammadAG | so's QListView, but I admit I never used that |
| 13:54.37 | lcuk | achipa, but each visible node on the list has visibilityu check and nothing rendered if it is offscreen etc |
| 13:54.52 | lcuk | achipa, hm |
| 13:55.04 | lcuk | just initialises/loads as things come onto screen sometimes |
| 13:55.15 | MohammadAG | QListWidget is saner imo :p |
| 13:55.35 | lcuk | this is code. there is no sanity. |
| 13:55.38 | achipa | lcuk: correct, and listview should do the same, in fact it should recycle the elements (so if your list has a million items, you don't get a list with a million c++ objects) |
| 13:56.04 | achipa | you will only have as many objects as visible and the rest will be created/cached from the model |
| 13:56.05 | lcuk | achipa, what happens if each item is a different size? |
| 13:56.29 | lcuk | you need to store your data, then a million references to the size of each element then rejig everything anyway to know where in the list you are |
| 13:56.38 | achipa | lcuk: same story - the point being it get killed if it goes too far off screen |
| 13:56.54 | achipa | lcuk: exactly, and that's why you need a fast model |
| 13:57.02 | lcuk | but to know whether it is onscreen needs to know the history of all proceeding items |
| 13:57.04 | Venemo | achipa, QML is exceptionally slow, and it uses 10 times the memory the equivalent QWidget solution uses |
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| 13:57.56 | lcuk | Venemo, ignore the memory construct issue |
| 13:57.59 | Venemo | achipa, part of this could be fixed by translating QML into C++ code (at build time) and compiling it |
| 13:58.02 | lcuk | slowness is more worrysome |
| 13:58.05 | lcuk | which aspect is slow |
| 13:58.06 | achipa | Venemo: I would disagree but there is a high chance we don't interpret the word 'equivalent' the same way |
| 13:58.18 | achipa | Venemo: say hello to qtquick 2.0 |
| 13:58.29 | Venemo | achipa, QML 2.0 isn't compiled either |
| 13:58.40 | Venemo | achipa, it just uses a different JS engine |
| 13:58.46 | Venemo | (AFAIK) |
| 13:59.04 | achipa | there ws some discussion about this on the SF MeeGo summit and compiled QML was on the table |
| 13:59.05 | lcuk | Venemo, QML and HTML are similar DOM models |
| 13:59.18 | lcuk | and nobody advocates compiling those to c++ first |
| 13:59.28 | achipa | Venemo: the compilation won't help you much per se, you ARE getting C++ objects |
| 13:59.36 | lcuk | achipa, yeah |
| 13:59.37 | MohammadAG | shitload of time needed to start a QML app :/ |
| 13:59.38 | achipa | Venemo: what you save on is the initial parsing |
| 13:59.45 | lcuk | right MohammadAG |
| 13:59.53 | lcuk | did you see the qml performance tool |
| 14:00.00 | Venemo | achipa, sure, but QML itself is interpreted still. fortunately the new JS engine will have JIT compilation. |
| 14:00.01 | achipa | that one I don't dispute at all :) |
| 14:00.01 | lcuk | initialisation goes through so many layers |
| 14:00.07 | lcuk | and so many thousands of times |
| 14:00.10 | achipa | Venemo: QML is not. JS is |
| 14:00.16 | MohammadAG | no, but this reminds me of Python |
| 14:00.20 | lcuk | Venemo, HTML is interpreted |
| 14:00.24 | lcuk | same way |
| 14:00.28 | lcuk | same level of detail |
| 14:00.34 | javispedro | hmm |
| 14:00.40 | javispedro | a descriptive language, "Interpreted"? |
| 14:00.45 | Venemo | achipa, will I be able to use the backends of QML from C++? eg. in Qt 5 can I write a C++ app that uses the same things as QML? |
| 14:01.04 | achipa | Venemo: you sort-of already can |
| 14:01.21 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:01.22 | achipa | Venemo: it's a very high price to pay just to be able to say 'yay, I did not use JS or QML !' |
| 14:01.24 | MohammadAG | what the f |
| 14:01.31 | MohammadAG | 9.2MBs for a Hello World?! |
| 14:01.44 | achipa | MohammadAG: AKA debug build |
| 14:01.45 | MohammadAG | nice memory usage |
| 14:01.57 | MohammadAG | achipa, Release build |
| 14:02.02 | lcuk | MohammadAG, your qt app uses memory too |
| 14:02.14 | achipa | also - the memory usage is somewhat linux-style, we like preloading and preinitializing a lot |
| 14:02.15 | MohammadAG | lcuk, well duh, but not 9.2MBs for "Hello world" |
| 14:02.28 | lcuk | I am sure microsoft can top that |
| 14:02.37 | MohammadAG | I don't care about Microsoft |
| 14:02.52 | Venemo | I'll see how much memory a XAML hello world uses |
| 14:02.55 | MohammadAG | a QMainWindow with a QLabel saying Hello World takes 4MBs |
| 14:03.00 | MohammadAG | (estimation) |
| 14:03.27 | javispedro | bah, just double? |
| 14:03.28 | achipa | as usual, the question is whether this is incremental or not |
| 14:03.33 | lcuk | what the f. 4mb for a Hello World?! |
| 14:03.33 | javispedro | that's a few years of hw only ;) |
| 14:03.45 | achipa | if at 100MB the difference is 100 vs 105, I don't give a s&&t |
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| 14:04.15 | achipa | that's like saying python uses 10000x more memory than C |
| 14:04.23 | lcuk | it does. |
| 14:04.26 | achipa | :D |
| 14:04.57 | javispedro | my question is why? |
| 14:05.07 | achipa | the point being that for print "hello world" python will fare bad |
| 14:05.11 | javispedro | as achipa I understood it was just a way of expressing Qt constructors in a shorter way |
| 14:05.30 | javispedro | so it would also use the same qobjects, same paint() methods, |
| 14:05.31 | javispedro | etc. |
| 14:05.40 | MohammadAG | I imagine the next device should have 1GB of HW RAM for this kind of stuff |
| 14:05.53 | javispedro | MohammadAG: otherwise it would look bland when compared to recent devices |
| 14:06.06 | lcuk | javispedro, most apps have a work part |
| 14:06.08 | MohammadAG | javispedro, no, it would suck from all the QML apps |
| 14:06.10 | lcuk | the bit that is more than glue. |
| 14:06.13 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@91.8.181.105) |
| 14:06.18 | MohammadAG | most of MeeGo seems QML by now |
| 14:06.18 | lcuk | and that work part is where slowness is |
| 14:06.19 | javispedro | lcuk: not hello world =) |
| 14:06.47 | achipa | MohammadAG: not really... the N900s 256 is small, it works just fine with 512... with 1gb it fliesssss |
| 14:07.09 | Venemo | achipa, are you referring to the rumoured harmattan devices? |
| 14:07.12 | achipa | javispedro: that is what happens |
| 14:07.13 | lcuk | :D more ceiling |
| 14:07.37 | MohammadAG | achipa, I'd imagine 512 is way too low |
| 14:07.39 | javispedro | achipa: but why does it seemingly use more RAM? |
| 14:08.06 | MohammadAG | hildon-desktop, home, status-menu etc probably take up 8MBs of RAM together |
| 14:08.14 | javispedro | pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft |
| 14:08.17 | javispedro | only 8? |
| 14:08.22 | MohammadAG | now I'd compare the Intel QML UI to that, but cba |
| 14:08.27 | achipa | Venemo: I have all sorts of hardware running all sorts of Qt versions if that's you mean... the exopc for example has 1gb, beagleboard 512mb... no ieda what harmittan stuff you're talking about ;) |
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| 14:08.35 | Venemo | hehehe |
| 14:08.44 | Venemo | achipa :) |
| 14:09.26 | Venemo | MohammadAG, right now, hildon-desktop uses 3.5 MB and puzzle-master uses 9.8 MB |
| 14:09.37 | achipa | javispedro: yes it does, but much of that overhead is simply from (at this point) focusing more on features than saving memory |
| 14:09.49 | achipa | javispedro: you will never ever see intel stuff below 1gb |
| 14:10.08 | Venemo | let's hope that QML will be better in Qt 5 |
| 14:10.10 | MohammadAG | Venemo, puzzle master is a game |
| 14:10.11 | SpeedEvil | Which will mean that caring about memory gets left behind. |
| 14:10.11 | lcuk | i have a 486 that proves you wrong. |
| 14:10.19 | MohammadAG | when you compare, do it with apps that do the same |
| 14:10.20 | lcuk | achipa, ^ |
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| 14:10.25 | achipa | so IMHO it's understandable that most of the time is spent on making stuff work, esp with regard to scenegraph, than battling QGV and QtScript memory usage |
| 14:10.29 | MohammadAG | i.e compare hildon-desktop with whatever desktop meego uses |
| 14:10.36 | SpeedEvil | Also - RSS is a lie! |
| 14:10.45 | achipa | lcuk: RECENT Intel stuff, as in Atoms, etc, etc |
| 14:10.46 | achipa | :) |
| 14:10.57 | lcuk | I am sure the 486 is made from atoms too |
| 14:11.03 | SpeedEvil | RSS counts - for example - the address space libc is mapped into |
| 14:11.03 | achipa | but not Atoms |
| 14:11.05 | Venemo | MohammadAG, well yeah, but p-m shouldn't use 9.8 MB either... |
| 14:11.06 | achipa | :) |
| 14:11.07 | SpeedEvil | http://www.selenic.com/smem/ |
| 14:11.08 | Venemo | lcuk, :):) |
| 14:11.12 | lcuk | lol |
| 14:11.33 | MohammadAG | Venemo, Qt is loaded into memory |
| 14:11.54 | MohammadAG | compare Qt apps together to cancel out differences |
| 14:12.06 | lcuk | what is the memory stuff in top as |
| 14:12.12 | lcuk | what does VIRT/RES/SHR mean |
| 14:12.18 | MohammadAG | for example, puzzle master takes up 9MBs, my mediaplayer takes up 7-ish |
| 14:12.23 | achipa | top is not the best way for gauging memory usage |
| 14:12.31 | lcuk | just roughly |
| 14:12.31 | RST38h | use htop |
| 14:12.37 | lcuk | do I add up all those? |
| 14:12.41 | achipa | virt is pointless, forget it |
| 14:12.50 | achipa | res is kinda it |
| 14:12.51 | lcuk | what is it though? |
| 14:12.54 | RST38h | SHR - shared with other apps (such as shared libraries) |
| 14:12.57 | achipa | shr is shared |
| 14:13.01 | RST38h | VIRT - swapped out to disk |
| 14:13.13 | achipa | not necessarily swapped out... allocated |
| 14:13.16 | RST38h | RES - actual memory amount currenty owned by the app |
| 14:13.16 | MohammadAG | btw, KDE's way of showing memory usage is nice |
| 14:13.23 | achipa | doesn't mean it's used or swapped... |
| 14:13.29 | Venemo | MohammadAG, memory usage is irrelevant when VirtualBox uses 103% of my CPU |
| 14:13.38 | achipa | as we know our beloved linux loves to overcommit :) |
| 14:13.42 | Venemo | according to top |
| 14:13.50 | MohammadAG | 103%? |
| 14:13.53 | javispedro | helo RST38h |
| 14:13.59 | RST38h | ehlo javispedro |
| 14:14.09 | lcuk | 2439 lcuk 20 0 86852 18m 3988 S 3.3 1.9 0:05.58 liqbase-playgro |
| 14:14.17 | achipa | that's just top's silly way of saying 'more than one core/hyperthread' |
| 14:14.20 | nid0 | Venemo whats wrong with that |
| 14:14.26 | Venemo | nid0 :) |
| 14:14.34 | lcuk | to be fair to it, it does have every sketch ever created since day1 available and prelisted |
| 14:14.37 | nid0 | genuine question |
| 14:14.48 | Venemo | nid0, how can you use more than 100% of a CPU? |
| 14:14.55 | nid0 | Venemo: top cpu % is / by number of cores/threads available |
| 14:15.02 | achipa | Venemo: by having multiple cores/threads |
| 14:15.07 | Venemo | mhmm |
| 14:15.13 | nid0 | if you're using a quad core hyperthreaded cpu, thats 13% |
| 14:15.30 | Venemo | I use a dual-core non hyperthreaded cpu |
| 14:15.56 | achipa | it LOOKS better to say 103% than to divide all values b the number of cores/HTs |
| 14:16.04 | achipa | imagine the server folks |
| 14:16.06 | Venemo | achipa, looks better indeed :) |
| 14:16.09 | Venemo | hehe |
| 14:16.15 | achipa | cringing why is my system hardly going over 10% ! |
| 14:17.02 | Venemo | achipa, because you don't run windows in VirtualBox |
| 14:18.21 | MohammadAG | doesn't get the concept of widgets in QML |
| 14:19.19 | Venemo | anyway, I will go and get some food now |
| 14:19.23 | Venemo | bye-bye guys :) |
| 14:19.26 | Venemo | bbl |
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| 14:28.22 | cloudyLights | khertan: how can I add a sudo line in my package? |
| 14:28.35 | achipa | MohammadAG: think about QML as .ui files if you have to |
| 14:28.52 | achipa | MohammadAG: what does it matter where QLabel comes from |
| 14:29.11 | MohammadAG | achipa, sorry, I can't do that, ui files are compiled, QML files aren't |
| 14:29.30 | achipa | let's pretend for a moment that they are |
| 14:30.00 | MohammadAG | k, so instead of a QPushButton I need to implement a Button.qml file |
| 14:30.16 | achipa | MohammadAG: no, you get that from qt components |
| 14:30.27 | MohammadAG | achipa, is Qt components on maemo |
| 14:30.30 | achipa | yes |
| 14:30.46 | MohammadAG | and on all systems with 4.7.2+? |
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| 14:31.21 | achipa | yes, though some might lack color styling or lack particular components (say, 20footDatePicker) |
| 14:31.33 | achipa | but the idea is that they would be omnipresent |
| 14:32.06 | cloudyLights | does anyone knows how to add a sudo line in a package I write |
| 14:32.06 | cloudyLights | ? |
| 14:32.12 | achipa | and yes, it's a shame the recent work on them is not (yet) available, but soon TM that obstacle will go away too |
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| 14:34.21 | achipa | MohammadAG: and where QML components kick ass compared to QWidgets is that most of the time they have very little native code, so you can swap them around |
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| 14:35.12 | MohammadAG | achipa, how do I get Qt Components? do I just copy the qml files into my project? |
| 14:35.34 | javispedro | ponders creating the wp7 pivot control in qml for a start |
| 14:35.39 | achipa | MohammadAG: that is the ugliest way (but nonetheless works) |
| 14:36.05 | achipa | on a linux system that hasn't forsaken dependencies you would depend on them like any other package |
| 14:36.40 | achipa | but they are certainly more mobile (in terms of code) than the binary libQtGui stuff |
| 14:37.36 | lcuk | a big question: qml is not directly reliant upon qt is it? |
| 14:37.47 | javispedro | GML+ ;P |
| 14:37.59 | lcuk | well, like we have various browsers |
| 14:38.02 | lcuk | each parsing html |
| 14:38.03 | achipa | lcuk: define directly... |
| 14:38.30 | lcuk | it would be feasible (for instance) for google to produce qml parser |
| 14:38.38 | lcuk | for direct use in android |
| 14:38.39 | achipa | there is nothing preventing you from making your own declarative engine if that's what you mean |
| 14:39.20 | achipa | but that would be sort of like what gnash is trying to do with SWF, that sort of doesn't really work in practice |
| 14:39.28 | achipa | (sort of) |
| 14:39.34 | lcuk | i understand |
| 14:40.20 | lcuk | are there any other declarative languages? |
| 14:40.25 | achipa | but then again, Google got away by snatching Java and violating it into a form that is nowadays more popular than the original :) |
| 14:40.26 | lcuk | is html5 and css3 close? |
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| 14:41.31 | achipa | close... maybe, better... IMHO not (and the gap is widening and HTML standardization is snail-paced) |
| 14:41.50 | RST38h | NOK at 6.03 |
| 14:42.14 | javispedro | buy buy buy! |
| 14:42.22 | javispedro | (please! ;P ) |
| 14:42.49 | javispedro | last one out at nok please shutdown the lights |
| 14:44.33 | achipa | the light are already off, it's summer time (it does get a bit darker around 1AM on the south) |
| 14:45.00 | javispedro | pft, same as here, no money left even for A.C |
| 14:45.04 | javispedro | s/A.C/AC |
| 14:45.28 | javispedro | it's also the end of public universities here =) |
| 14:46.37 | javispedro | but I have to wonder how Nokia investors are going to congratulate Elop for chopping share value in half |
| 14:48.00 | *** join/#maemo javisn900 (~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
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| 14:51.18 | Jaffa | javispedro: They'll be "happy" waiting to see the reaction to the WP devices :-/ |
| 14:52.14 | MohammadAG | what's all the talk about the 21st being something big |
| 14:53.25 | javispedro | according to J. random blogger invitations have been distributed for a nokia event |
| 14:53.37 | javispedro | which would map to the fcc expiration date nicely |
| 14:53.52 | achipa | MohammadAG: June 21st is the biggest day in 2011 |
| 14:54.06 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~Venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 14:54.10 | achipa | quite literally, it is the longest day in the northern hemisphere |
| 14:54.14 | Venemo_N900 | hey again |
| 14:54.18 | achipa | ducks for cover |
| 14:56.46 | MohammadAG | javispedro, well, yeah, the 24th, though I'm not sure if the new "disruptive" device is the N9 |
| 14:56.55 | Venemo_N900 | achipa, really? this is the longest day? |
| 14:57.26 | achipa | Venemo_N900: yessiree, in 2011 it's the 21st |
| 14:57.39 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG, I'm not sure how disruptive it will be, if at all |
| 14:57.59 | MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, it will lower stocks by 90% |
| 14:58.00 | Venemo_N900 | achipa :) |
| 14:58.06 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG, why? |
| 14:58.08 | javispedro | Mohammandag: who knows. I am putting my finger on this one though. |
| 14:58.39 | MohammadAG | just saying, that's how disruptive it's going to be :p |
| 14:58.49 | Venemo_N900 | lol |
| 14:59.09 | javispedro | maybe whats going to be disruptive is elop and investors commiting collective suicide |
| 14:59.44 | MohammadAG | that would be disturbing, not disruptive! :p |
| 14:59.49 | Venemo_N900 | maybe |
| 15:00.02 | javispedro | disturbing?? |
| 15:00.05 | Venemo_N900 | it wouldn't disturb me at all |
| 15:00.12 | javispedro | I'd bring in the champagne! |
| 15:00.23 | MohammadAG | xD |
| 15:00.36 | MohammadAG | no fine wine? |
| 15:00.41 | Venemo_N900 | javispedro, deal! |
| 15:00.53 | lcuk | achipa, this weekend I am heading to London |
| 15:01.37 | lcuk | well, I am if I have been paid |
| 15:01.43 | lcuk | to an event called Hacktivate |
| 15:01.57 | lcuk | where idea is to describe how you would use technology to change the world |
| 15:02.04 | lcuk | and to try and build prototypes |
| 15:03.15 | Venemo_N900 | lcuk, I would use nuclear power plants to save the atmosphere |
| 15:03.49 | Venemo_N900 | unfortunately, one of them blew up and now the stupid masses think that nuclear energy is bad |
| 15:04.01 | javispedro | i would burn the atmosphere to save the planet |
| 15:04.31 | javispedro | --> away |
| 15:06.08 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:07.02 | jacekowski | heh |
| 15:07.06 | jacekowski | bitcoin fail |
| 15:07.06 | jacekowski | http://gawker.com/5811868/a-500000-geek-cyberheist |
| 15:11.42 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 15:12.53 | nid0 | user fail* |
| 15:13.31 | nid0 | who keeps a wallet with $500,000 in it somewhere nickable, regardless of whether its cash, travellers cheques, or bitcoins |
| 15:15.28 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@nat/ti/x-ezbskumsehpswtdx) |
| 15:17.59 | Jaffa | nid0: But isn't that part of the problem? Most people aren't geared up to store any form of money worth $500,000 |
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| 15:24.16 | achipa | lcuk: actually I should have been there myself |
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| 15:25.29 | achipa | lcuk: but there are two countries in the whole of the European continent that require paperwork for me to get in, and the UK is one of those :) thus I passed... |
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| 15:26.17 | lcuk | achipa, cool |
| 15:26.23 | lcuk | do you know anyone else that is going? |
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| 15:27.15 | achipa | I know there will be a couple of FN guys there |
| 15:27.21 | nid0 | Jaffa: most people arent, because they arent storing $500,000 |
| 15:27.26 | nid0 | if you are, you take care of it |
| 15:27.28 | nid0 | dont you? |
| 15:27.34 | achipa | or DN or whatever we are called :) |
| 15:28.58 | achipa | Venemo_N900: wait until an earthquake brings down the hoover dam or sorts, a hurricane kills the wind plants and some will start advocating that we should not use electricity at all :) |
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| 15:29.22 | Venemo_N900 | achipa, heheh |
| 15:30.07 | Venemo_N900 | achipa, by that time we will need electricity more than ever |
| 15:30.27 | Venemo_N900 | mostly because all fossil fuel will run out |
| 15:30.28 | achipa | Nokia bicycle chargers FTW ! :D |
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| 15:38.27 | user0 | is back! |
| 15:39.08 | user0 | DocScrutinizer MohammadAG , |
| 15:39.12 | user0 | any last suggestions ? |
| 15:39.30 | user0 | before i send this device back to the store :P |
| 15:39.42 | jacekowski | nuclear cars ftw |
| 15:40.10 | user0 | huh? |
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| 16:08.51 | Sicelo | so much for the topic :/ |
| 16:09.11 | Sicelo | http://www.nokian900applications.com/nokia-n900-compatible-with-android-market/ |
| 16:09.29 | Jef91 | anyone know if there is an easy way to make the easy debian image size larger? |
| 16:12.26 | Venemo | Jef91, ask qole |
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| 16:18.02 | khertan | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqD9UaDpA_0 <<< nice MeeGo Netbook Bug |
| 16:18.03 | khertan | :) |
| 16:25.33 | cloudyLights | khertan: why do the file I install from the package are forgetting their prmitions? |
| 16:26.00 | cloudyLights | khertan: how to make all my .py files have 755? |
| 16:29.30 | khertan | it s didn't care of permission as it didn't exist on fat drive |
| 16:29.50 | khertan | so i set the permission in the post install script |
| 16:29.58 | cloudyLights | ok |
| 16:30.21 | cloudyLights | need I also add a script for uninstall? |
| 16:30.44 | khertan | if you need to do other action than removing file no |
| 16:30.54 | cloudyLights | update-sudoers |
| 16:31.01 | khertan | if you didn't need to do other action than removing file no |
| 16:31.16 | khertan | update-sudoers ? |
| 16:31.25 | khertan | you modify the sudo file prefs ? |
| 16:31.29 | khertan | so yes |
| 16:32.44 | cloudyLights | can I use p to find any file ending with .py and chmod 755 it? |
| 16:32.51 | cloudyLights | hmmm |
| 16:33.00 | cloudyLights | I only have a few files.. |
| 16:36.18 | khertan | cloudyLights, yep it s possible |
| 16:38.28 | khertan | "#!/bin/sh\nchmod 755 "+"\nchmod 755".join(p['/usr/...'] should works ... not tested |
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| 16:49.58 | cloudyLights | khertan: help pls |
| 16:50.49 | cloudyLights | err. min |
| 16:52.18 | cloudyLights | ok got my mistake |
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| 16:54.02 | HRH_H_Crab | crashanddie: still there? im home now and im looking for that community player you mentioned earlier. |
| 16:54.09 | HRH_H_Crab | cant seem to find it in my repositories |
| 16:54.18 | HRH_H_Crab | do i need to add one? |
| 16:54.28 | Venemo | HRH_H_Crab, which player are you referring to? |
| 16:54.32 | crashanddie | ~cssu |
| 16:54.32 | infobot | somebody said cssu was http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 16:54.45 | HRH_H_Crab | crashanddie: thanks. |
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| 17:08.49 | RST38h | Well. Moo. |
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| 17:13.55 | HRH_H_Crab | hmmm. is the thing im looking for called "someplayer" ? |
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| 18:05.53 | HRH_H_Crab | crashanddie: hmmm. im guessing that the media player you are talking about is the "standard" one that is replaced when you install the cssu stuff? |
| 18:06.06 | HRH_H_Crab | if so, sadly it still isnt gapless. :( |
| 18:06.35 | HRH_H_Crab | (or ive done something wrong) |
| 18:07.06 | cloudyLights | does anyone need a app to silence the phone by the calender? |
| 18:07.13 | cloudyLights | I am looking for testers |
| 18:07.38 | HRH_H_Crab | i suppose the implication is that now i at least have one that is potentially still being improved so might have that feature at some point in the future though, which is a good thing. |
| 18:07.53 | cloudyLights | my app will switch the N900 to silent when a meeting starts , and then switch it back to regular |
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| 18:19.04 | DocScrutinizer | HRH_H_Crab: just had a discussion in cssu chan about why cssu is enforcing new "replacement" apps that can't switch back to the original ones. It's indeed a flaw in CSSU concept in my book |
| 18:21.02 | HRH_H_Crab | DocScrutinizer: i havent noticed any problems per se. |
| 18:21.33 | HRH_H_Crab | its just that in this case the replacement app hasnt fixed the issue with the original one that i hoped it would. |
| 18:22.15 | HRH_H_Crab | anyway, the cssu stuff makes it quite clear that its for powerusers / testers etc. |
| 18:22.26 | HRH_H_Crab | and in a worse case scenario one could just reflash i guess. |
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| 18:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | for all subsystems where that's possible, such replacements should either come as quite normal package in extras(-devel) and provide an interface to user where she can select what's the default "system" app handling e.g. mp3. Or, for sake of conserving space, you get an *optional* package from CSSU-repo that you can install whenever you like, and that package would replace your standard mediaplayer by the new one permanently and free the |
| 18:22.50 | DocScrutinizer | storage eaten by the meamo5-stock component |
| 18:24.56 | HRH_H_Crab | i dunno. im ot a developer. just a somewhat "geeky" end user. i think their approach seems o.k. in as far as i understand it, but i can see your point of view too. |
| 18:25.43 | DocScrutinizer | there's no good rationale for CSSU to permanently replace stock system bits like mediaplayer, camera, whatnot - other than to keep storage footprint small |
| 18:25.55 | HRH_H_Crab | but as i see it, |
| 18:26.32 | DocScrutinizer | just replace rogue things that kill your system - make the rest optional |
| 18:26.38 | HRH_H_Crab | the whole point of installing cssu would be because a user wasnt happy with the status quo (closed source original apps that are no longer being developed / getting bug fixes) |
| 18:28.04 | DocScrutinizer | not sufficiently a rationale to *force* users of CSSU to permanently irreversibly replace all their stock system components |
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| 18:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | as long as there's no dependency to the new stuff, make it optional |
| 18:29.55 | DocScrutinizer | if it needs the special hacks to allow removal of parts of maemo5-metapackage aka system aka MP, get it into CSSU that is about doing exactly that |
| 18:30.25 | DocScrutinizer | but still you can make it an optional package to install via HAM from cssu-repo |
| 18:31.17 | HRH_H_Crab | well, speaking as an end user, i'll just be happy if one day the "stock" media player has gapless playback. |
| 18:31.20 | HRH_H_Crab | :P |
| 18:31.37 | HRH_H_Crab | i have way too many dj mix cds that sound like shit on my n900 |
| 18:31.42 | DocScrutinizer | CSSU isn't meant to be the mutually exclusive alternative to stock PR1.3 |
| 18:32.12 | HRH_H_Crab | and even albums like "live at folsom prison" by johnny cash have segues between songs that sound crappy when it transitions between them. |
| 18:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | HRH_H_Crab: completely on same page with you regarding gapless |
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| 18:45.52 | MohammadAG | Mohammad-, mind iding yourself or something... |
| 18:46.42 | rm_work | lol >_> |
| 18:47.02 | rm_work | yeah, makes tabcompleting your name confusing :P |
| 18:47.26 | MohammadAG | it's not me |
| 18:47.40 | MohammadAG | unless I have another XChat instance up, but that would show my IP |
| 18:48.17 | rm_work | yeah |
| 18:48.35 | rm_work | HRH_H_Crab: also, you could just... install a different media player and use that |
| 18:48.47 | rm_work | i really liked mediabox, not sure about gapless but it's open, soo |
| 18:49.17 | MohammadAG | ZNC is clean, no duplicate users |
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| 18:52.01 | HRH_H_Crab | rm_work: ive tried several of the other ones but i don't like them much. |
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| 18:53.30 | HRH_H_Crab | iirc some (none?) of them would pause correctly if there was an incoming call. |
| 18:53.43 | HRH_H_Crab | maybe i should try trawling through the various options again. |
| 18:58.10 | rm_work | yeah dunno |
| 18:58.23 | rm_work | ono my home internet appears to have hiccuped |
| 18:58.26 | rm_work | >_> |
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| 19:24.19 | GAN900 | Tick tick tick |
| 19:26.07 | SpeedEvil | boom |
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| 19:47.42 | vi__ | yo |
| 19:48.10 | vi__ | howto launch an command in osso-xterm from osso-xterm. |
| 19:48.27 | vi__ | i.e. osso-xterm -e ping google.com? |
| 19:48.39 | vi__ | any o' you bro's know? |
| 19:49.13 | vi__ | MohammadAG: for example? |
| 19:53.22 | MohammadAG | osso-xterm "ping google.com"? |
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| 19:56.21 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that Mohammad- is a ZNC instance running on ool-44c62415.dyn.optonline.net == 68.198.36.21 using secure connection. I recall you used this "account" quite some time ago. I don't think pinging it and asking to "id" does help - you should contact the sysop of the server at 68.198.36.21 and ask hin to get your account out of that ZNC for good |
| 19:57.41 | DocScrutinizer | seems the server is located in Connecticut, USA - if that helps you remember who might be owner of this ZNC |
| 19:58.07 | MohammadAG | Only server I know of in the US is in New York |
| 19:58.15 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 19:58.25 | DocScrutinizer | locateIP isn't reliable |
| 19:58.30 | MohammadAG | ZNC can only run once |
| 19:58.49 | DocScrutinizer | ?? |
| 19:58.50 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 19:58.57 | vi__ | MohammadAG: 'osso-xterm ping google.com' causes an instance of osso-xterm to start, however it crashes immediatley |
| 19:59.06 | vi__ | crashes or stops |
| 19:59.12 | MohammadAG | ZNC can only have one instance with the same config |
| 19:59.23 | MohammadAG | vi__, probably cause ping needs root privs |
| 19:59.28 | DocScrutinizer | n one server, yes |
| 19:59.40 | MohammadAG | yeah, that's the only server with the config |
| 19:59.49 | DocScrutinizer | probably you're right about that |
| 20:00.29 | DocScrutinizer | as there can't be two ZNC listening to same port for clients connecting |
| 20:00.54 | MohammadAG | just checked a full list of processes, only one |
| 20:01.12 | DocScrutinizer | anyway evidently that gone-mad ZNC is on 68.198.36.21 |
| 20:01.23 | MohammadAG | stops ZNC |
| 20:01.33 | rm_work | LOL |
| 20:01.36 | rm_work | woop |
| 20:01.36 | DocScrutinizer | byebye mohammad- |
| 20:02.06 | *** join/#maemo Mohammad- (~MohammadA@pool-96-250-166-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:02.12 | rm_work | heh |
| 20:02.14 | DocScrutinizer | hi again Mohammad- |
| 20:02.25 | rm_work | it's definitely yours, it took over your name :P |
| 20:02.28 | vi__ | no, no program will run when invoked this way |
| 20:02.32 | vi__ | funnily though |
| 20:02.36 | vi__ | if i type |
| 20:03.01 | MohammadAG51 | grr |
| 20:03.06 | *** join/#maemo Guest86796 (~xnt14@pool-96-250-166-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:03.11 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG51 (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 20:03.15 | DocScrutinizer | hi MohammadAG51 |
| 20:03.36 | vi__ | what is the run-standalone.sh script for? |
| 20:03.54 | DocScrutinizer | vi__: to allow root to access user session dbus |
| 20:03.56 | rm_work | vi__: IIRC running things without having to deal with connecting to dbus |
| 20:04.17 | rm_work | because otherwise the system will kill whatever you run after a few seconds |
| 20:04.32 | vi__ | thank you |
| 20:04.34 | *** join/#maemo Mohammad- (~MohammadA@ool-44c62415.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:05.22 | MohammadAG | is there a way to find out all users who have *@ool-44c62415.dyn.optonline.net ? |
| 20:05.35 | RST38h | Yes |
| 20:05.36 | DocScrutinizer | alas not |
| 20:05.41 | DocScrutinizer | on my client |
| 20:05.45 | RST38h | Hack OptOnline, get their customer records |
| 20:05.51 | DocScrutinizer | irssi users know of ways to do |
| 20:05.57 | vi__ | echo "ls" | osso-xterm does not work either |
| 20:06.20 | RST38h | Something like /who * with a filter will do |
| 20:06.29 | DocScrutinizer | vi__: osso-xterm doesn't take stdin |
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| 20:07.12 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you know about chat to ZNC by /querying *status ? |
| 20:07.16 | vi__ | then how do I invoke an instance of osso-xterm running a particular program? |
| 20:07.31 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yes, but it's not the ZNC I'm on |
| 20:07.54 | MohammadAG | vi__, add a read at the end to see why it exists |
| 20:08.04 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 20:08.08 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 20:08.12 | MohammadAG | using osso-xterm obviously doesn't spawn a shell, so when the process exits, the terminal closes |
| 20:08.23 | DocScrutinizer | vi__: you might have a look into mc.desktop |
| 20:08.35 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: exactly |
| 20:08.38 | DocScrutinizer | to the point |
| 20:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | osso-xterm ash -c "ls -l" |
| 20:09.26 | MohammadAG | or osso-xterm "ls -l && read foo" |
| 20:09.33 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 20:10.33 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: netstat is your friend, regarding weird phantom ZNC instances ;-) |
| 20:10.41 | MohammadAG | that's not working btw |
| 20:10.44 | MohammadAG | for some reason |
| 20:10.56 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: && is shell syntax |
| 20:11.06 | MohammadAG | osso-xterm "ash -c 'ls -l && read foo'" |
| 20:11.37 | MohammadAG | oh and use ; not && |
| 20:11.41 | DocScrutinizer | xterm can't spawn "ls -l && read foo" : file not found |
| 20:12.05 | vi__ | bah |
| 20:12.13 | vi__ | why is this so annoying? |
| 20:12.36 | MohammadAG | vi__, osso-xterm "ash -c 'ping google.com; read foo'" |
| 20:13.14 | DocScrutinizer | even osso-xterm "ash -c 'ping google.com; read foo; exit'" ;-D |
| 20:14.27 | vi__ | that does work, however I am HUNGRY to understand why |
| 20:14.40 | vi__ | what is the parameter -c do? |
| 20:14.51 | vi__ | what is the 'read foo' for? |
| 20:14.58 | DocScrutinizer | xterm just loads and executes ONE binary |
| 20:15.30 | NIN101 | obviously -c = command, read read some stuff from stdin to a environment variable, but here it just prevents the closing of osso-xterm |
| 20:15.33 | vi__ | I see the ping google.com is essentially a 1 line script (terminated by ;) |
| 20:15.34 | DocScrutinizer | -c is telling this binary which happens to be shell to execute the -commmand |
| 20:15.50 | vi__ | aah |
| 20:15.53 | MohammadAG | read foo reads the keypress into the variable $foo |
| 20:16.03 | MohammadAG | of course, pressing anything will return |
| 20:16.26 | *** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@46.42.112.108) |
| 20:16.40 | MohammadAG | so something at the end of a script like echo "Press any key to continue or press any other key to exit" && read keypress would work |
| 20:16.53 | DocScrutinizer | then exit closes the shell which in turn makes xterm quit |
| 20:16.54 | MohammadAG | there's no need for that afaik |
| 20:17.05 | vi__ | I love you guys, teach me your ways. |
| 20:17.07 | MohammadAG | could be wrong, but my battery ran out |
| 20:17.22 | MohammadAG | isn't -c supposed to exit the shell when all commands return? |
| 20:17.29 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 20:18.38 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 20:18.43 | DocScrutinizer | bbl |
| 20:19.07 | DocScrutinizer | nah just a moment |
| 20:19.42 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what did you do then to make Mohammad- quit and re-appear, a few minutes ago? |
| 20:20.24 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-15 22:01:36] <DocScrutinizer> byebye mohammad- |
| 20:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-15 22:02:12] <rm_work> heh |
| 20:20.27 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-06-15 22:02:14] <DocScrutinizer> hi again Mohammad- |
| 20:21.12 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you obviously have control over that ZNC instance |
| 20:21.37 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, nah, it connected faster than my proper ZNC |
| 20:21.44 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 20:22.03 | MohammadAG | Mohammad- didn't quit |
| 20:22.12 | MohammadAG | when I quit, it immediately changed nicks, that's how ZNC works |
| 20:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 20:22.54 | DocScrutinizer | netstat is your friend, find the processes that keep connections to freenode |
| 20:23.02 | MohammadAG | here's an example |
| 20:23.18 | MohammadAG | actually sec, need to do something first |
| 20:24.07 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I could do that for you, using netstat ;-) |
| 20:24.23 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I could do that for you, using nmap ;-) |
| 20:24.39 | DocScrutinizer | but I guess netstat is faster and more informative |
| 20:26.27 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 20:26.44 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2011-06-15T23:01:23 |
| 20:27.04 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 20:27.52 | DocScrutinizer | hi javispedro |
| 20:27.59 | javispedro | mo |
| 20:28.09 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 20:28.16 | DocScrutinizer | heads out |
| 20:28.56 | MohammadAG | moo javispedro |
| 20:29.15 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: clear your nicknames module in ZNC |
| 20:29.25 | javispedro | hits N810 |
| 20:29.40 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, my ZNC has this IP |
| 20:29.44 | javispedro | today the bme rebooting bug is specially ... damnable |
| 20:29.44 | MohammadAG | err, hostmask |
| 20:29.49 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_ (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 20:29.50 | javispedro | as I'm trying to copy a few files and it keeps rebooting |
| 20:29.54 | MohammadAG | pool-96-250-166-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net |
| 20:30.00 | MohammadAG | that's the only one I have root access to |
| 20:30.58 | javispedro | curses |
| 20:31.21 | javispedro | anyone remembers if a fixed n810 bme was released by nokia? I kinda remember the story.. |
| 20:31.50 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: *** Mohammad- is now known as MohammadAG [23:01] |
| 20:32.22 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I don't have access to that |
| 20:32.38 | DocScrutinizer | I see, find owner of that server |
| 20:32.48 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: I don't think so |
| 20:32.56 | SpeedEvil | Though I haven't been paying that close attention |
| 20:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | somebody who granted you ZNC some 12 months ago |
| 20:35.36 | *** join/#maemo the_lord (~david@190.114.240.2) |
| 20:36.13 | MohammadAG | my only ZNCs were yours and the one I'm currently on |
| 20:36.27 | MohammadAG | so unless someone's moving servers, I have no idea where that's from |
| 20:39.51 | *** join/#maemo Roomerlol (~Roomerlol@95-26-55-47.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 20:44.16 | *** join/#maemo Tuco1 (~Tuco1@pool-71-190-18-224.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:44.16 | *** join/#maemo Tuco1 (~Tuco1@unaffiliated/tuco) |
| 20:46.27 | *** join/#maemo kama (~kama@unaffiliated/kama) |
| 20:47.10 | DocScrutinizer | funny |
| 20:47.43 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.237.169.253) |
| 20:51.36 | *** join/#maemo mrsellout (~mrsellout@78-105-172-183.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:06.22 | Sazpaimon | there sure are a lot of people on tmo with very little grasp of english lately |
| 21:06.30 | *** join/#maemo user0 (~user@unaffiliated/user0) |
| 21:07.57 | piggz | Sazpaimon: politeness and courtesy too most likely ;) |
| 21:10.02 | *** join/#maemo ggoebel (~ggoebel@c-66-56-13-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 21:11.13 | ggoebel | maemo.org seems geared toward n900, is n8x0 still supported? |
| 21:11.54 | Sazpaimon | there's a few dedicated n8x0 users on the forum |
| 21:12.44 | ggoebel | good to hear |
| 21:12.59 | ggoebel | just picked my first n800 up off ebay |
| 21:13.44 | lcuk | ponders requesting maintainers for n8x0 |
| 21:14.24 | *** join/#maemo till- (till@r021.red.fastwebserver.de) |
| 21:14.45 | ggoebel | looking for a website or instructions which will bring me quickly up to speed. |
| 21:15.09 | ggoebel | looking for maintainers is hard when dealing with old hardware and volunteer projects |
| 21:15.22 | ggoebel | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N8x0 |
| 21:15.35 | ggoebel | appears like it may have stalled... |
| 21:16.16 | ggoebel | was hoping being a linux device the support might be long lived |
| 21:16.36 | Sazpaimon | i thought meego has a 256MB minimum |
| 21:16.43 | Sazpaimon | or is that for x86 |
| 21:16.46 | Sazpaimon | for ram that is |
| 21:17.12 | user0 | hello :) |
| 21:17.14 | user0 | hows everyone today? |
| 21:17.35 | andre__ | ggoebel: it is linux based, but if those parts that are closed source don't receive updates by its owners those parts are stuck. |
| 21:17.39 | javispedro | "a few" is, like, 3. |
| 21:18.04 | Sazpaimon | javispedro, more than a couple |
| 21:18.09 | ggoebel | andre__: <nod> |
| 21:18.13 | Sazpaimon | unless you swing that way |
| 21:18.35 | user0 | MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer , how are you guys doing today? |
| 21:19.20 | user0 | just sent my n900 back to the shop for them to deal with the problem |
| 21:19.25 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-174-111-058-051.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 21:20.31 | jacekowski | ggoebel: linux has shorter support than windows |
| 21:20.34 | rm_work | lcuk: yeah, i *hope* ABL is still functioning properly and availble from extras |
| 21:20.39 | jacekowski | ggoebel: lot shorter |
| 21:20.58 | jacekowski | ggoebel: unless you can do it yourself |
| 21:21.25 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~trumee@cpc3-cmbg14-0-0-cust113.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:21.44 | *** join/#maemo flailingmonkey (~quassel@static-98-140-86-94.dsl.cavtel.net) |
| 21:21.54 | Sazpaimon | yeah, usually when a new version of a linux OS comes out the old one is quickly abandoned |
| 21:22.05 | Sazpaimon | windows at least has a long term support cycle |
| 21:22.30 | derf | Windows also has a much longer release cycle. |
| 21:23.01 | ggoebel | nice... found http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ |
| 21:23.04 | rm_work | windows also has fairly tight-fisted control over what happens at the OS level :P |
| 21:23.10 | *** join/#maemo kama (~kama@unaffiliated/kama) |
| 21:23.16 | derf | They've already dropped support for the version two versions ago, it's just that was released in 2001. |
| 21:23.30 | ggoebel | jacekowski: depends on whether you're talking about driver support or programming apis |
| 21:23.50 | Sazpaimon | derf, windows xp was a special exception |
| 21:23.59 | jacekowski | ggoebel: both |
| 21:24.23 | Sazpaimon | in microsoft's defense they created a new OS, canned it, and then made another while XP was out |
| 21:24.52 | ggoebel | jacekowski: beg to differ... but suppose we beg off the usual back and forth and agree to disagree? |
| 21:24.58 | Sazpaimon | talking about longhorn -> vista |
| 21:25.01 | rm_work | ggoebel: also http://ageofikon.com/packrat/ |
| 21:25.10 | ggoebel | rm_work: thanks |
| 21:25.54 | jacekowski | ggoebel: get any linux app that was made 10 years ago, and try to run it now |
| 21:25.57 | lcuk | rm_work, :) https://github.com/lcuk/liqbase-playground/blob/master/sub_published/liqcontrolpanel/liqbrightness.c#L48 |
| 21:26.03 | lcuk | still needs wiring up correctly! |
| 21:26.06 | rm_work | heh |
| 21:26.09 | rm_work | yeah |
| 21:26.18 | rm_work | it's the wiring up that was annoying as @#&$ originally |
| 21:26.24 | rm_work | which is why i had to do it :P |
| 21:26.29 | rm_work | otherwise i feel like it would have been done |
| 21:26.45 | rm_work | oh, and figuring out how to make a GTK statusbar applet actually LOOK right |
| 21:26.48 | rm_work | >_< |
| 21:27.08 | lcuk | heh yeah |
| 21:27.22 | lcuk | i think it took several weeks to find a single define function |
| 21:27.35 | rm_work | yerp |
| 21:27.47 | rm_work | and garage.maemo.org's first successfully paid bounty :P |
| 21:27.54 | rm_work | bought jott a bear |
| 21:27.56 | rm_work | *beer! |
| 21:27.58 | rm_work | NOT A BEAR |
| 21:27.59 | rm_work | OH GOD |
| 21:28.03 | rm_work | is mauled |
| 21:28.10 | jacekowski | lcuk: why not link it at compile time? |
| 21:28.43 | lcuk | jacekowski, complex |
| 21:28.53 | lcuk | just needs a switch() statement really |
| 21:29.02 | rm_work | lcuk: ROFL: "// from the bowels of abl" |
| 21:29.07 | lcuk | but had other things work related sidetracking |
| 21:29.32 | lcuk | rm_work, ;) |
| 21:31.02 | rm_work | was gonna say you needed to set the scaling factors properly, but then saw your comment at the top when looking for the defines :P |
| 21:31.17 | rm_work | because the system method is like... WTF |
| 21:31.24 | rm_work | the formula for that number is retarded |
| 21:31.25 | rm_work | T_T |
| 21:31.51 | rm_work | have you looked at autodetection for choosing the method yet? |
| 21:32.06 | rm_work | the way we did it was based on the hardware revision >_> which is... bleh |
| 21:32.09 | rm_work | but works |
| 21:32.47 | lcuk | rm_work, not looked in that file for ages |
| 21:32.54 | rm_work | i tend to write hacky code to get the job done at first and then go back to fix things once it actually WORKS end to end, doing regression testing as I go |
| 21:32.57 | lcuk | I did however find all the sketches relating to its design |
| 21:33.04 | rm_work | that's one of those things we never really found a better method for |
| 21:33.08 | rm_work | lol yeah |
| 21:33.20 | rm_work | i remember, you linked them :P |
| 21:33.31 | rm_work | would like to see the end product at some point |
| 21:33.37 | rm_work | it sounds like it'd work nicely |
| 21:34.07 | rm_work | i'm imagining putting my finger at the top, dragging left/right and also down, then getting to the next level and repeating, and again |
| 21:34.22 | rm_work | wonder if it actually works that smoothly in reality |
| 21:34.39 | rm_work | though you have to meter the requests because otherwise you spam DSME and it goes whacko |
| 21:36.02 | lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20110615_223401.brightness.scr.png |
| 21:36.16 | lcuk | it would work today if it was wired up |
| 21:36.26 | lcuk | I however dunno which to do, send me a patch |
| 21:36.53 | *** join/#maemo user0- (~user@unaffiliated/user0) |
| 21:37.15 | lcuk | rm_work, disco brightness ;) |
| 21:37.23 | lcuk | should have noise whilst you wiggle |
| 21:37.34 | rm_work | lol yeah |
| 21:37.45 | rm_work | lcuk: what do you need a patch for? your file looked good, besides the scaling |
| 21:37.55 | rm_work | which is only really necessary for the sys method, i believe |
| 21:37.59 | rm_work | which is only on 770 <_< |
| 21:38.09 | lcuk | i am currently setup on ideapad |
| 21:38.24 | rm_work | ah |
| 21:38.25 | rm_work | yeah |
| 21:38.29 | lcuk | my n900 is in user mode and scratchbox isnt running |
| 21:38.31 | rm_work | i never got HAL support functioning |
| 21:38.38 | rm_work | does Meego use HAL? |
| 21:38.40 | rm_work | or DSME still |
| 21:38.47 | rm_work | if it still uses DSME... well, you have the code |
| 21:40.18 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@62-47-164-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 21:40.34 | rm_work | ABL was super useful for getting a real job BTW... I got to say things like "have experience with translation of applications using l10n :P |
| 21:40.35 | rm_work | " |
| 21:40.52 | lcuk | hehe indeed |
| 21:41.42 | lcuk | I am heading to London this weekend |
| 21:42.10 | rm_work | cool |
| 21:42.12 | rm_work | I'm not :( |
| 21:42.13 | rm_work | I wish I was |
| 21:42.15 | lcuk | heh |
| 21:42.15 | rm_work | that'd be awesome |
| 21:42.20 | lcuk | going to this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jun/01/hactivate |
| 21:42.21 | rm_work | also a long and expensive flight <_< |
| 21:42.47 | lcuk | you would fall asleep in the mcdonalds :P |
| 21:42.47 | rm_work | LOL |
| 21:42.51 | rm_work | partnered with Nokia :P |
| 21:42.53 | rm_work | lcuk: lol |
| 21:43.00 | rm_work | at least I didn't VOMIT in the mcdonalds |
| 21:43.08 | lcuk | yes, true |
| 21:43.13 | rm_work | i'm holding on to that :P it's all I've got |
| 21:43.24 | lcuk | :D |
| 21:43.42 | lcuk | the collective will of every McDonalds employee is also pleased |
| 21:43.58 | lcuk | rm_work, Nokia are supporting part of it sure |
| 21:44.01 | lcuk | but they say: |
| 21:44.52 | rm_work | i just think thats funny |
| 21:45.04 | rm_work | i was really impressed with them before, for supporting the community the way they did |
| 21:45.13 | rm_work | but now with Elop and all the crap thats going on, it's just "wtf" |
| 21:45.23 | rm_work | like, are they supporting us, or dropkicking us into the nether? |
| 21:45.29 | rm_work | I can't tell <_< |
| 21:46.22 | lcuk | rm_work, meh |
| 21:46.58 | rm_work | lcuk: yes, "meh" describes how I feel right now about that |
| 21:47.13 | rm_work | but i guess for now i'll say "it's still cool that they're supporting the community like that" |
| 21:47.30 | lcuk | not sure where the balance is coming from |
| 21:47.53 | lcuk | but the first revisions of that and the paperwork I have talks about being platform agnostic |
| 21:47.59 | lcuk | but does not specify a toolkit |
| 21:48.16 | lcuk | so I can stand up and talk about liqbase bits |
| 21:48.21 | lcuk | in context of liqbase |
| 21:48.23 | lcuk | :) |
| 21:50.01 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B36702B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:50.41 | user0- | something just came to mind |
| 21:50.43 | lcuk | joins the symbian channel |
| 21:50.48 | rm_work | lol |
| 21:50.51 | rm_work | user0-: OH NO |
| 21:51.00 | rm_work | quickly, forget everything! |
| 21:51.15 | rm_work | is in a jovial mood today |
| 21:51.24 | user0- | hmm they've done it already |
| 21:51.40 | lcuk | "they"? |
| 21:52.07 | user0- | https://elektranox.org/n900/screenshots.html |
| 21:52.52 | user0- | its just not everything works |
| 21:55.32 | DocScrutinizer | what? that's obviously SHR |
| 21:55.40 | DocScrutinizer | of course we did it |
| 21:55.52 | DocScrutinizer | like 9 months ago |
| 21:56.27 | user0- | DocScrutinizer : i sent the damn phone back to the shop |
| 21:57.08 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI&feature=related |
| 21:57.20 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:57.23 | DocScrutinizer | user0-: probably best yu can do |
| 21:58.33 | user0- | DocScrutinizer : i could have installed meego on an sd card and got the code |
| 21:59.00 | ShadowJK | ah, bought device with lock code? :-) |
| 21:59.01 | user0- | but this shouldn't happen so let them deal with the problem |
| 21:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | sure you could, but that doesn't explain why it is acting up like it did |
| 21:59.17 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 21:59.22 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~trumee@cpc3-cmbg14-0-0-cust113.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:59.39 | user0- | ShadowJK : it started asking for one after flashing it |
| 21:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yep, plus it wasn't resettable as it's supposed to be, according to MohammadAG |
| 22:01.06 | ShadowJK | mmm supposed to be trivial to crack, but it takes effort i guess |
| 22:01.24 | user0- | DocScrutinizer : i was expressing how useless the rescue initrd was moments ago at #meego :P |
| 22:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | not trivial when system refuses to boot |
| 22:01.40 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 22:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | I guess reply was ..... |
| 22:02.12 | *** join/#maemo Guest86796 (~xnt14@unaffiliated/xnt14) |
| 22:02.17 | user0- | that i was right and that the wiki page is missing a lot :P |
| 22:02.50 | user0- | they were asking each other what was the point of usb networking |
| 22:02.58 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: if you got the opportunity eventually, you'd not want to miss to test enabling lockcode prior to rootfs reflash, to see if it gets reset |
| 22:03.25 | DocScrutinizer | lol @ user0- |
| 22:03.46 | ShadowJK | Uh, i'm pretty sure it doesn't get reset? |
| 22:03.53 | user0- | the info online regarding that was mixed |
| 22:05.20 | user0- | i ended up translating sites from Arabic and Chinese to know the answer yesterday |
| 22:05.51 | ShadowJK | isn't lock code stored with CAL and stuff.. |
| 22:06.03 | user0- | didn't even get it, worked for some people, didn't for others |
| 22:06.24 | *** join/#maemo mr_jrt (~j@jamie-thompson.co.uk) |
| 22:07.19 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.223.12) |
| 22:07.48 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: MohammadAG claims the fact it shall get queried is in gconf, and gconf gets reset on flashing rootfs |
| 22:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | a big hoax, but comes handy when overriding a forgotten lockcode |
| 22:08.54 | ShadowJK | was it MohammadAG or someone else who stared at disassembly of NOLO and stuff.. |
| 22:08.55 | MohammadAG | gconf should be stored on ~ imo |
| 22:09.02 | DocScrutinizer | alas I never heard anybody actually *testing* it, that's why I asked if you... eventually... (I'm rarely ever flashing rootfs) |
| 22:09.08 | MohammadAG | what does NOLO have to do with this? |
| 22:09.17 | MohammadAG | and no, it was probably jacekowski |
| 22:09.29 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: jacekowski |
| 22:10.20 | ShadowJK | iirc he found the lock code in CAL, and figured out the default code is stored in plain text, and when setting code it gets stored as hash(code+salt), where salt is constant |
| 22:10.29 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@178-190-187-113.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:10.33 | ShadowJK | but my memory isn't that reliable :P |
| 22:10.40 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (should be stored in ~) maybe it is, partially, and that's why you need to nuke both, rootfs AND eMMC |
| 22:10.49 | DocScrutinizer | would make a lot of sense |
| 22:11.04 | MohammadAG | no need to nuke eMMC to clear gconf actually :p |
| 22:11.06 | MohammadAG | just rootfs |
| 22:11.16 | MohammadAG | and setting a gconf value as root or user does the same |
| 22:11.20 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: (figured default) that's been me :-) |
| 22:11.37 | ShadowJK | ah ok |
| 22:11.56 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: please TRST it |
| 22:11.59 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 22:12.12 | MohammadAG | test what? |
| 22:12.22 | MohammadAG | it's 12345 on the other N900 here |
| 22:12.22 | DocScrutinizer | we all know how to *simulate* it with gconftool |
| 22:12.26 | MohammadAG | plain text |
| 22:12.34 | MohammadAG | I don't want to change that :P |
| 22:12.36 | DocScrutinizer | yes, that means you never changed it |
| 22:12.49 | MohammadAG | yeah, not my personal N900 so no reason to do so |
| 22:13.09 | user0- | DocScrutinizer : you remember the flashers output that was something like ( x kb of y kb ) yesterday ? |
| 22:13.44 | user0- | you made a geekish joke back then with something regarding the speed of light.. |
| 22:13.46 | DocScrutinizer | (simulate) and I believe in your tests with gconftool regarding the lockcode disabling. Nevertheless there *might* be more to it |
| 22:13.55 | user0- | y was 0 on windows |
| 22:13.56 | DocScrutinizer | user0-: yes |
| 22:14.14 | user0- | on linux x=y |
| 22:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | transmitting arbitrary amount of data in 0 seconds is speed-of-light for flashing |
| 22:14.34 | MohammadAG | how it should be |
| 22:14.39 | ShadowJK | I wonder if the gconf key is written to on boot |
| 22:15.08 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, DocScrutinizer qwerty12 lost his key and had to recover, he found out flashing recovers access to the device |
| 22:15.25 | DocScrutinizer | well, if *anybody* dares to enable lockcode prior to next flash... |
| 22:15.31 | DocScrutinizer | we'd know for sure |
| 22:15.32 | user0- | :) |
| 22:15.54 | user0- | i'll be flashing it if it comes back with an older firmware tomorrow |
| 22:16.27 | DocScrutinizer | no problems as long as you know your own lockcode |
| 22:16.35 | user0- | so i'll do whatever testing you have in mind |
| 22:16.51 | user0- | thats for sure :) |
| 22:16.58 | MohammadAG | first post here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=434946&postcount=1 |
| 22:17.23 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ok, I'll look into it, but it might have changed, no? |
| 22:17.50 | DocScrutinizer | I can tell it's an old post, just from the URL ;-P |
| 22:18.00 | MohammadAG | nah |
| 22:18.07 | user0- | 12-19-2009 |
| 22:19.04 | user0- | perhaps i'll get SHR running on an sd card before flashing tomorrow |
| 22:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: also he doesn't state WHAT he had to flash, maybe >>let me remind you that I had to reflash the phone and blasted all of the files I had on here along with all my settings and applications<< implies he flashed eMMC too? |
| 22:23.57 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.117) |
| 22:24.20 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, extra research shows http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=538825&postcount=2 |
| 22:25.15 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 22:25.41 | DocScrutinizer | still I'm worried nobody succeded in actually doing it recently |
| 22:26.26 | user0- | MohammadAG : i read his/her posts yesterday |
| 22:26.47 | DocScrutinizer | I'd feel a WHOLE LOT better when talking users like user0- thru all of it, when I got some recent confirmation of the process working with PR1.3 |
| 22:27.25 | MohammadAG | his, saying her in the maemo community wouldn't be sexism imo :p |
| 22:27.30 | MohammadAG | err, him* |
| 22:27.33 | DocScrutinizer | it's just so simple to change the cruft that checks lockcode on boot |
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| 22:27.57 | DocScrutinizer | so nobody knows if Nokia fixed that vulnerability in PR1.3 or not |
| 22:29.52 | DocScrutinizer | if I were to implement that, I'd place a cookie to ~user/ as well, and only ignore lockcode if both rootfs and ~user got nuked |
| 22:30.42 | DocScrutinizer | so all your data is safe, and you recover by lockcode loss via FULL reflash (root&eMMC) |
| 22:30.52 | DocScrutinizer | clean solution - and so easy |
| 22:31.12 | user0- | DocScrutinizer : have you been getting many users with the problem? |
| 22:31.24 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 22:31.49 | user0- | this* |
| 22:35.16 | user0- | DocScrutinizer : if i find the time tomorrow i'll be flashing it a few times to see what was causing it |
| 22:35.30 | DocScrutinizer | cool, thanks |
| 22:35.46 | DocScrutinizer | don't forget your lockcode ;-) |
| 22:35.56 | user0- | :D |
| 22:36.02 | DocScrutinizer | just in case |
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| 22:44.52 | DocScrutinizer | btw, *which* process actually deals with lockcode? |
| 22:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | mce? |
| 22:45.08 | MohammadAG | wait for it, wait for it, mce |
| 22:45.17 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 22:45.20 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 22:45.20 | MohammadAG | stop mce; sleep 1; start mce prompts for the code |
| 22:45.30 | DocScrutinizer | gonna strace the sucker ;-) |
| 22:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | see where it looks for secret bits about asking lockcode or not |
| 22:46.10 | MohammadAG | gconf :p |
| 22:46.40 | MohammadAG | just string the library with the UI in control panel |
| 22:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | why not ~user/.gnome/letslockit as well? |
| 22:46.48 | MohammadAG | it's libcpdevlock I think |
| 22:46.54 | MohammadAG | it's in /usr/lib/hildon-control-panel |
| 22:47.14 | MohammadAG | cause Nokia didn't think an average crook can flash rootfs |
| 22:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | I'll jus see if it touches eMMC when *enabling* lockcode |
| 22:48.18 | MohammadAG | nope, sure it doesn't :p |
| 22:48.24 | DocScrutinizer | as it would need to flip both toggles if there's one in rootfs *and* one somewhere hiding on eMMC |
| 22:48.41 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: how do you know? |
| 22:50.23 | DocScrutinizer | given I had source of mce, I'd "fix" this vulnerability in ~5min |
| 22:51.01 | DocScrutinizer | refer what they did with cherry ;-) |
| 22:52.30 | MohammadAG | I dug around a lot when looking for something for chem|st |
| 22:52.32 | MohammadAG | not sure what it was |
| 22:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | -- if get-gconf(GCONFKEY_USE_LOCK) |
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| 22:55.20 | DocScrutinizer | ++ if get-gconf(GCONFKEY_USE_LOCK) or fstat(PATH_TO_LOCKCOOKIE_IN_HOME, void) |
| 22:56.06 | DocScrutinizer | can go to mce any time, for any past or future mce update Nokia ships |
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| 22:57.42 | DocScrutinizer | unless somebody compares md5 for mce in PR1.0 with what we got today and oesn't find a diff, we don't know for sure |
| 22:58.44 | DocScrutinizer | or somebody *demonstrates* flashing rootfs is sufficient for PR1.3 |
| 22:59.58 | DocScrutinizer | arguably the option to boot meego or rescue-initrd and access eMMC data this way somewhat completely defeats the purpose of a lockcode |
| 23:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | but you never know if they didn't think they at least should fix the unprotected MyDocs from simple rootfs flashing which is what every noob would try first to unlock the device |
| 23:03.15 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia could even fix NOLO and completely protect the device this way |
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| 23:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | NOLO: if I'M_FLASHING_ROOTFS and check-cal-key(MCE-HAS-SET-LOCKCODE, "yes") then {set-cal-key(LOCK-CODE, "invalid); set-calkey(MCE-HAS-SET-LOCKCODE, "reflash-emmc-too-to-unlock")}; |
| 23:09.46 | Scelt | nolo means ackward in Finnish |
| 23:09.56 | DocScrutinizer | yo |
| 23:10.08 | DocScrutinizer | and FIASCO means... errhm |
| 23:10.26 | Scelt | I guess the developers of Nolo also knew it ;) |
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| 23:13.42 | DocScrutinizer | btw my approach as sketched above still has vulnerabilities, but definitely it would spoil the day for joe random-lifter interested in your data |
| 23:19.51 | rm_you | joe random-lifter will say "hrm, this looks like a cellphone. sell to pawn-shop." |
| 23:20.02 | rm_you | i think you may be overestimating the majority of the criminal element |
| 23:20.37 | rm_you | "but you never know if they didn't think they at least should fix the unprotected MyDocs from simple rootfs flashing which is what every noob would try first to unlock the device" |
| 23:20.38 | rm_you | rofl |
| 23:20.45 | rm_you | every noob wouldn't even know what maemo is |
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| 23:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | this doesn't really matter here, does it? |
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| 23:29.59 | rm_you | just saying |
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| 23:31.13 | rm_you | you make it sound like any random person on the street might pick up my cell phone and immediately think "AH, I know, I'll just flash the rootfs and that way i'll have easy access to his data" >_> |
| 23:31.45 | rm_you | 90% of people on the street will be like "durrr, cellphone" and the rest will be like "cool, smartphone... wait, this isn't android. LAME." |
| 23:32.10 | DocScrutinizer | as long as the average service shop finds the MyDocs data gets exposed despite lock code, on a regular flashing of "firmware", this might just be sth Nokia feels the should change |
| 23:32.14 | rm_you | your point is still valid though if you're legitimately concerned with security |
| 23:33.00 | rm_you | hopefully you understand my point tho :) |
| 23:33.05 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 23:33.23 | DocScrutinizer | I simply didn't bother to elaborate in it |
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| 23:34.03 | rm_you | i'm just poking fun mostly, as it seems you're the pedantic person in this channel most often :P |
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| 23:34.15 | DocScrutinizer | as it's about what Nokia might wnat to do or have done already, not about actually implementing sth community driven to improve security |
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| 23:36.44 | smhar | I have lost my N900 -actually stolen- and after using another phone for a month I am dying to get an N900 again, so I am checking ebay for used ones. what is a good price for a used N900 in good-condition? |
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| 23:37.56 | wblaze | smhar: I paid $300CAD recently |
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| 23:38.13 | wblaze | and watched a brand new phone sold for the same price |
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| 23:39.46 | DocScrutinizer | on a random shop I've seen two used ones sold for 240EUR |
| 23:39.57 | DocScrutinizer | I think it's too much though |
| 23:40.30 | DocScrutinizer | s/sold/on sale/. |
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| 23:41.14 | smhar | tried local shops here, no new and no used. I felt like I am the only one who is -was- using it :-) |
| 23:42.29 | SpeedEvil | smhar: where are you? |
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| 23:42.47 | DocScrutinizer | I've been amazed when I've seen that pair of N900. Been the first time I've seen one in a shop |
| 23:42.52 | smhar | SpeedEvil, Bahrain |
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| 23:43.43 | SpeedEvil | I found I'm getting ads from nokia as baner ads, advertising the n900 as still for sale on contract. UK only. And I don't know if it's real. |
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| 23:44.41 | wblaze | they're still on sale new in canada |
| 23:45.35 | smhar | SpeedEvil, Nokia and their local agent here never ran an ad for N900. it was a very silent comer to the market |
| 23:45.54 | wblaze | stores aren't stocking them though, as far as I have seen - it's special order only |
| 23:46.59 | wblaze | price is rediculous though |
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| 23:49.53 | smhar | I think Nokia discontinued it |
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| 23:56.54 | DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10130 |
| 23:57.01 | DocScrutinizer | (2 N900) |
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