IRC log for #maemo on 20110607

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`00:12.40`	`wblaze`	`GonzoTheGreat: thats an awesome nick`
`00:15.11`	`*** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com)`
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`02:23.14`	`c2pLaY`	`hi all`
`02:23.21`	`c2pLaY`	`have a problem on my nokia n900`
`02:23.34`	`c2pLaY`	`desktop icons keep becoming unresponsive`
`02:23.48`	`c2pLaY`	`i've tried killing hildon-desktop`
`02:23.56`	`c2pLaY`	`but of course none of the icons come bakc`
`02:24.21`	`cehteh`	`some software takes all resources?`
`02:24.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`Do they appear OK on boot?`
`02:24.25`	`c2pLaY`	`and it remains unresponsive after the the process has been reinitiated`
`02:24.27`	`cehteh`	`what do you have installed and running?`
`02:24.40`	`c2pLaY`	`i got all kinds of stuff installed`
`02:24.41`	`cehteh`	`(including widget)`
`02:24.51`	`c2pLaY`	`3 widgets i think`
`02:25.01`	`c2pLaY`	`the cpu overclocking one`
`02:25.01`	`cehteh`	`well watch the process list and see if something leaks memory or takes all cpu`
`02:25.03`	`c2pLaY`	`calendar`
`02:25.06`	`c2pLaY`	`and showip`
`02:25.19`	`c2pLaY`	`i have quite a few icons`
`02:25.31`	`c2pLaY`	`this is happening very regularily`
`02:25.34`	`*** join/#maemo gn00b (~gn00b@71-223-126-247.phnx.qwest.net)`
`02:25.34`	`c2pLaY`	`i have flashed it`
`02:25.36`	`cehteh`	`either top from a terminal or conky`
`02:25.44`	`c2pLaY`	`speaking of top`
`02:25.50`	`c2pLaY`	`is there a way to scroll down with top?`
`02:25.54`	`cehteh`	`no`
`02:25.58`	`cehteh`	`ps aux \| less`
`02:26.06`	`c2pLaY`	`ye`
`02:26.14`	`cehteh`	`(dunno if aux works on messybox)`
`02:26.24`	`c2pLaY`	`dunno what messybox is`
`02:26.35`	`c2pLaY`	`this is a pretty vanilla setup`
`02:26.36`	`cehteh`	`you can sort top output P for cpu and M for memory`
`02:26.41`	`c2pLaY`	`so i shouldn't ahve much running`
`02:26.43`	`cehteh`	`busybox :)`
`02:26.49`	`cehteh`	`the crippled shell it has`
`02:27.15`	`c2pLaY`	`im not a super advanced user`
`02:27.18`	`cehteh`	`(note: uppercase M and P)`
`02:27.28`	`c2pLaY`	`so if there's anything missing in busybox i am unaware`
`02:27.51`	`cehteh`	`just use top`
`02:28.00`	`cehteh`	`just trying, works for me`
`02:28.04`	`c2pLaY`	`im not a complete noob tho`
`02:28.06`	`c2pLaY`	`i can use ps`
`02:28.21`	`cehteh`	`ah ps aux works too`
`02:28.31`	`c2pLaY`	`i usually just ax`
`02:28.36`	`c2pLaY`	`don't need to see the user usually`
`02:28.39`	`cehteh`	`well you are only interested in the most resource intensive applications`
`02:28.42`	`c2pLaY`	`take up alot of extra room`
`02:28.49`	`c2pLaY`	`unless im looking for something user related`
`02:29.20`	`Macer`	`x is the most resource intensive`
`02:29.29`	`cehteh`	`top is quite configureable .. but well this buildin one is a busybox crippled one duh`
`02:29.49`	`c2pLaY`	`so yeah`
`02:29.51`	`cehteh`	`so kill X :P`
`02:29.52`	`cehteh`	`haha`
`02:29.54`	`c2pLaY`	`3 widgets`
`02:29.55`	`Macer`	`hahahahaa`
`02:29.56`	`c2pLaY`	`heh`
`02:30.10`	`Macer`	`shell only`
`02:30.13`	`c2pLaY`	`calendar, showip, and cpu`
`02:30.16`	`cehteh`	`well go down the list and see if there is anything unusual within the first 10 entries or so`
`02:30.17`	`c2pLaY`	`widgets`
`02:30.19`	`Macer`	`surprised someone hasnt done that yet`
`02:30.24`	`c2pLaY`	`will have a quick look`
`02:30.26`	`Macer`	`ncurses dialer and what not`
`02:30.27`	`c2pLaY`	`had to reboot`
`02:30.29`	`Macer`	`:)`
`02:30.30`	`*** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@66-90-160-127.dyn.grandenetworks.net)`
`02:30.30`	`*** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you)`
`02:30.55`	`*** join/#maemo maybeHere (cl@p5B1668DD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:31.08`	`Macer`	`i love ecoach`
`02:31.21`	`Macer`	`first time the gps on this n900 has been useful`
`02:31.27`	`cehteh`	`huh ..`
`02:31.27`	`Macer`	`considering ovimaps`
`02:31.32`	`Macer`	`:)`
`02:31.34`	`cehteh`	`ovimaps sux`
`02:31.43`	`Macer`	`i guess geotagging pics`
`02:31.46`	`cehteh`	`cloudgps is a nice plaything (but lacks features)`
`02:31.47`	`c2pLaY`	`yeah the gps doesn't seem to be very accurate`
`02:31.50`	`Macer`	`i know it does`
`02:31.53`	`c2pLaY`	`was kinda wondering about that`
`02:31.54`	`cehteh`	`but monav is damn cool`
`02:32.03`	`*** join/#maemo Evanescence (~chris@122.237.32.59)`
`02:32.14`	`Macer`	`ovimaps was absolutely horrible`
`02:32.15`	`Macer`	`is`
`02:32.19`	`Macer`	`i tried it`
`02:32.23`	`cehteh`	`c2pLaY: with assisted gps and give it some time to acquire the position its pretty good most of the time`
`02:32.28`	`Macer`	`google maps is good but requires net`
`02:32.32`	`cehteh`	`yes ovimaps is rubbish`
`02:32.38`	`cehteh`	`Macer: monav!`
`02:32.45`	`Macer`	`rubbish is too kind`
`02:32.49`	`cehteh`	`http://monav.openstreetmap.de/`
`02:32.52`	`Macer`	`cehteh: i will try it`
`02:33.16`	`Macer`	`ovimaps is total shit`
`02:33.18`	`Macer`	`:)`
`02:33.19`	`c2pLaY`	`so how or where do you configure assisted gps?`
`02:33.33`	`cehteh`	`if you dont changed anything, then its on by default`
`02:33.34`	`c2pLaY`	`not familiar with gps all that much`
`02:33.44`	`cehteh`	`anyways in settings "position"`
`02:33.47`	`c2pLaY`	`yeah and using googlemaps mobile`
`02:34.06`	`cehteh`	`there is googlemaps for the n900? with gps support?`
`02:34.11`	`Macer`	`gnav is great if you had a sat connextion in your car`
`02:34.18`	`Macer`	`hahaha.. no`
`02:34.24`	`cehteh`	`i use osm :)`
`02:34.27`	`c2pLaY`	`i dunno if its supported`
`02:34.29`	`c2pLaY`	`but it works`
`02:34.30`	`Macer`	`and i mean internet sat`
`02:34.37`	`cehteh`	`monav can use offline maps .. vector maps!`
`02:34.38`	`c2pLaY`	`just shows the location wrong`
`02:34.42`	`c2pLaY`	`off by about a mile`
`02:34.53`	`Macer`	`gnav requires a net connection which is nonexistant in the sticks`
`02:34.58`	`*** join/#maemo evil\|Jonne (~jonne@91.182.191.134)`
`02:34.59`	`c2pLaY`	`not sure how accurate its supposed to be`
`02:35.09`	`cehteh`	`c2pLaY: give it some time to acquire the position .. can take up to 10 minutes and needs sight to the sky`
`02:35.10`	`*** join/#maemo Jzarecta (~jza@187.153.96.49)`
`02:35.16`	`Macer`	`cehteh: i think the n900 gps isnt too bad as far as accuracy`
`02:35.16`	`c2pLaY`	`ohic`
`02:35.18`	`cehteh`	`(well with assisted gps its much faster)`
`02:35.21`	`Jzarecta`	`hi is ther a way that I can locate the audio for the camera noise`
`02:35.32`	`c2pLaY`	`very kewl cehteh, i'll have to give that a try`
`02:35.34`	`Macer`	`i was able to track where i was on an airplane by holding it against the window`
`02:35.34`	`Jzarecta`	`I am looking to mute the camera sound 'ringtone'`
`02:35.40`	`cehteh`	`but assisted gps needs internet connection`
`02:35.47`	`Jzarecta`	`so first question is where is the camera application`
`02:35.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy`
`02:36.01`	`cehteh`	`c2pLaY: and dont use ovi maps .. try monav or mappero`
`02:36.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`err`
`02:36.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS`
`02:36.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`GPS accuracy studies`
`02:36.45`	`c2pLaY`	`so yeah`
`02:36.48`	`c2pLaY`	`ps ax`
`02:36.55`	`c2pLaY`	`theres a whole bunch of crap in there`
`02:37.00`	`cehteh`	`what is 'dm' ?`
`02:37.01`	`c2pLaY`	`most of which i cannot make sense of`
`02:37.14`	`c2pLaY`	`might have to output to a file and pastebin it`
`02:37.20`	`cehteh`	`c2pLaY: hence i saied use top and only look at the topmost things`
`02:37.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: decimeters`
`02:37.29`	`c2pLaY`	`might ask one of you fine gentlement/women to take a look`
`02:37.34`	`cehteh`	`i dont want to sort your pastebin either`
`02:37.41`	`c2pLaY`	`heh`
`02:37.44`	`c2pLaY`	`kk top it is :P`
`02:37.56`	`cehteh`	`SpeedEvil: ah didnt expected that :P .. expected some fancy US unit :)`
`02:38.49`	`cehteh`	`SpeedEvil: do you know details of position acqusition?`
`02:38.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: ?`
`02:38.59`	`c2pLaY`	`i have 2 browserd running`
`02:39.08`	`c2pLaY`	`seem to be using up quite a bit of memory`
`02:39.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`c2pLaY: normal`
`02:39.12`	`cehteh`	`last week on a bike ride it got horribly wong at the end of the ride`
`02:39.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`c2pLaY: also - RSS is a lie`
`02:39.29`	`c2pLaY`	`i don't use rss`
`02:39.31`	`cehteh`	`position jumped like crazy`
`02:39.32`	`*** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com)`
`02:40.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`c2pLaY: http://www.selenic.com/smem/`
`02:40.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: If it goes to cell positioning - it can get very inaccurate`
`02:40.31`	`cehteh`	`that was when i was inside a town .. i wonder if it uses wlan in reach for guessing position when gps signals are too weak`
`02:40.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`Similarly multipath can distort it majorly`
`02:40.50`	`cehteh`	`yes but it had fine GPS location for some hours`
`02:41.09`	`cehteh`	`i wonder why it lost the gps lock`
`02:41.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`Jammers can be an issue.`
`02:41.54`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`cehteh: nope`
`02:42.16`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`gps multipath + reflections`
`02:42.26`	`SpeedEvil`	`See the above openstreetmap page`
`02:42.34`	`cehteh`	`mhm maybe i should look at the .gpx .. it should record the accurracy for each track point right?`
`02:42.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`I wrote something on reflections`
`02:42.40`	`cehteh`	`yeah`
`02:42.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: Some apps don't`
`02:42.59`	`cehteh`	`lets see`
`02:43.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`EPE you may be looking for.`
`02:43.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`Or HDOP`
`02:43.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`Even satellite number.`
`02:44.00`	`*** join/#maemo swc\|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)`
`02:44.10`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`some are nonsesne, mere calc result from loc and time and efem`
`02:44.27`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`not the real precision`
`02:44.50`	`cehteh`	`yeah no accuracy`
`02:44.51`	`cehteh`	`duh`
`02:45.12`	`*** join/#maemo nelson__ (~nelson@197.sub-75-194-56.myvzw.com)`
`02:45.33`	`cehteh`	`well i gone over 850 km/h with my bike :P`
`02:45.47`	`cehteh`	`the cops wont catch me`
`02:46.52`	`cehteh`	`DocScrutinizer: btw i need some educated guess from a EE :)`
`02:47.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`About what?`
`02:47.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: I know a hell of a lot about GPS.`
`02:47.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`It doesn't help at all.`
`02:47.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`Simply as the implementation is closed.`
`02:47.25`	`cehteh`	`i got this bike charger/battery ... soldered the charger cable and it generally works`
`02:47.29`	`SpeedEvil`	`Ah`
`02:47.38`	`cehteh`	`but sometimes the n900 reports "cant charge"`
`02:47.56`	`cehteh`	`i guess the voltage drops because of a power spike when changing cell or so`
`02:48.00`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-21-227.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`02:48.00`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe)`
`02:48.13`	`cehteh`	`so the bike charger has a DCDC output 5V regulated`
`02:48.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`I think can't charge means it may have had a voltage drop`
`02:48.38`	`cehteh`	`can i put a cap there to buffer spikes? ... maybe a goldcap? or would that be dangerous?`
`02:48.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`Goldcap will do almost nothing`
`02:49.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`You want a cap with a reasonably low series resistance`
`02:49.22`	`cehteh`	`yes i dont know the resistance of goldcaps ..`
`02:49.33`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`not dangerous but no use in it`
`02:49.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`quite high - several hundred ohms is typical`
`02:49.45`	`cehteh`	`ah ok didnt know that`
`02:49.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: Does it charge properly normally?`
`02:50.10`	`cehteh`	`well on other circruits i put a big elko and a big tantal ..`
`02:50.13`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`and you need sth like 1AsV`
`02:50.25`	`cehteh`	`yes also stationary on my desk it charges from this battery`
`02:51.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd wonder if it was connection issues`
`02:51.28`	`cehteh`	`its most likely a voltage drop, i just wonder how i can buffer that`
`02:51.33`	`cehteh`	`no wasnt`
`02:51.57`	`cehteh`	`connection is perfect i checked all connections 10 times :)`
`02:52.04`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`ignore`
`02:52.18`	`cehteh`	`and it restarted charging when i turned the battery off and on`
`02:52.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`If you smack the battery about a little - does it go off?`
`02:52.27`	`cehteh`	`no`
`02:52.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`Check the switch`
`02:52.34`	`cehteh`	`yes its all ok`
`02:52.47`	`cehteh`	`assume its a voltage drop, how can i buffer that?`
`02:53.15`	`cehteh`	`(if goldcap doesnt work i would just do my tantal+elko thing)`
`02:53.38`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`ignore`
`02:53.42`	`cehteh`	`or can i tell the device to charge at less current somehow?`
`02:53.46`	`cehteh`	`DocScrutinizer: impossible`
`02:53.48`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`cant buffer`
`02:54.11`	`cehteh`	`it somtimes didnt came up charging 20 times in a row .. sometimes worked for 20 minutes`
`02:54.17`	`cehteh`	`i must fix this somehow`
`02:54.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: Do you have a DMM?`
`02:54.34`	`cehteh`	`DMM?`
`02:54.36`	`cehteh`	`ah yes`
`02:54.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd start out by seeing if the voltage is on 5V`
`02:54.57`	`cehteh`	`well not here but yes`
`02:55.12`	`*** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@212-183-126-112.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`02:55.53`	`cehteh`	`the battery DCDC can only deliver 850 mA`
`02:56.00`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`use ca146-a or a better DC/DC`
`02:56.02`	`cehteh`	`then the voltage drops`
`02:56.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`?You`
`02:56.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`You can regulate the charge current with the proper charger script`
`02:56.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`I don't think BME can do this`
`02:56.58`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`you could use 'jrbme' charger and limit current to less than that`
`02:57.22`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`he, SpeedEvil beat me`
`02:57.27`	`cehteh`	`sounds like a plan`
`02:57.51`	`cehteh`	`bq27200.sh cant display input voltage?`
`02:57.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`Well - I diddn't write anything distributable`
`02:57.59`	`wblaze`	`silly question, is there a way to open multiple xterms on the n900?`
`02:57.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: no`
`02:58.11`	`*** join/#maemo wam (~wam@unaffiliated/wam)`
`02:58.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: Tehre are a number of flags on the charger chip that can tell you the state`
`02:58.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`200 is the charge monotro`
`02:58.30`	`SpeedEvil`	`wblaze: tap 'new' in the context menu`
`02:58.34`	`cehteh`	`well how big are the power spikes the device causes? .. prolly tens of ms`
`02:58.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`There shouldn't be power spikes - significant ones.`
`02:59.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`All the spikes come out of the battery`
`02:59.07`	`wblaze`	`SpeedEvil: ... wow, I can't believe I missed that`
`02:59.20`	`cehteh`	`well in that case the battery was almost empty`
`02:59.21`	`wblaze`	`thanks so much for humoring that haha`
`02:59.28`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`but a bit >850 for seconds`
`03:02.14`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
`03:02.26`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`you considered OVERvoltage?`
`03:02.47`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`has same effect`
`03:03.10`	`cehteh`	`?`
`03:06.44`	`cehteh`	`wow .. i phoned 7 times for 99 cent this month :P`
`03:08.23`	`*** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@c-68-52-77-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)`
`03:08.55`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`cehteh: voltage spikes or overvoltage in general will make N900 stop charging`
`03:09.18`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`more plausible than load spikes`
`03:10.06`	`cehteh`	`well as i saied, when using this battery stationary then it charges fine, just with the n900 battery almost empty and while biking it didnt worked reliable`
`03:10.17`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`you might be able to log some of the state in bq24150 to see what's up`
`03:10.28`	`cehteh`	`i also disabled the dynamo charging so only the external battery provided power`
`03:10.47`	`cehteh`	`and when i put the phone in offline mode it seemed to be little better`
`03:10.58`	`cehteh`	`yeah i try that next tome`
`03:10.59`	`cehteh`	`time`
`03:11.08`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`all not really concludent`
`03:11.27`	`cehteh`	`how much overvoltage does the n900 accept? 5.2V? 5.5V?`
`03:12.06`	`cehteh`	`i could add a zener diode for protection .. but that would mean that the DCDC is somewhat broken and i doubt that, then it wont work stationary`
`03:12.16`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`while sleep 1; do i2cget $statusregister; done >logfile`
`03:12.29`	`cehteh`	`$statusregister is?`
`03:12.30`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`at least 6V`
`03:13.03`	`cehteh`	`./bq27200.sh 1 >logfile`
`03:13.07`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`I'm on the road, so postpone that for later`
`03:13.33`	`cehteh`	`ok well i leave soon, take a nap .. its not that urgend`
`03:13.37`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`cehteh: 27200 won't tell much`
`03:14.00`	`cehteh`	`is the input voltage available by i2c?`
`03:14.10`	`*** join/#maemo MohammadAG51 (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG)`
`03:14.36`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`you need 24150, see my before latest post on USBhostmode beta tmo thread`
`03:14.53`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`no, but a good/bad IIRC`
`03:15.15`	`cehteh`	`hey i have no clues about this :)`
`03:15.45`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`the error bits are identical for charge and boost`
`03:17.47`	`cehteh`	`needs a lsi2c :P`
`03:18.16`	`*** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-98-154-251-72.socal.res.rr.com)`
`03:18.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`Interesting.`
`03:18.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`Supply voltage is 4V-6.3V - when it should 'always charge'`
`03:19.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`Outside these ranges, it trips off.`
`03:19.15`	`cehteh`	`thats quite a range`
`03:19.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`Outside the range -0.7 to 7V for a few seconds, it may explode.`
`03:19.29`	`cehteh`	`:)`
`03:19.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`I don't see that it's likely to charge fully with vbus at 4V though`
`03:20.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`err - at -0.7 to 7V it's supposed to not be immediately damaged - ratehr.`
`03:20.10`	`cehteh`	`stepup?`
`03:20.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`Exceeding that will do bad stuff`
`03:21.46`	`cehteh`	`without shortened data pins it doesnt charge at all .. i hoped that it charges at least at the minimum current the usb spec allows (80ma or so?)`
`03:22.00`	`cehteh`	`maximum unacknowledged power`
`03:22.40`	`cehteh`	`well in most cases when the device is running on my bike (gps and display on) it draws more than 80ma`
`03:25.16`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`03:28.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`cehteh: It depends - with the battery voltage under s specified threshold, and BME dead, it will charge with the orange light on constnatly`
`03:29.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`Also - a quick read of the example schematic and datasheet imply that it's not going to charge the battery to over the vbus - ever.`
`03:29.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`It can't.`
`03:29.15`	`cehteh`	`well i want to use the device and dont want a black brick on the handlebar`
`03:31.09`	`cehteh`	`well on my next bike trip i will investigate the case`
`03:31.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`Charges the battery to 3.54V max`
`03:31.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd look at jrbme`
`03:31.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`work out how to set maximum input current to 500mA or something`
`03:32.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`This will usually charge the device`
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`03:44.59`	`*** join/#maemo mitsutaka_ (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com)`
`03:46.13`	`cehteh`	`Max Load Current Registers (MLIL/MLIH) â Address 0x1E/0x1F`
`03:46.36`	`cehteh`	`err wrong`
`03:47.52`	`cehteh`	`anyways .. such a nice capable chip .. and nokia fucked it up`
`03:48.53`	`ShadowJK`	`uh?`
`03:50.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: SpeedEvil: yes, zhe bq24150 does no step-up for charging`
`03:50.47`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
`03:51.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: I don't see how Nokia "fsckd it up" other than inventing a useless oversofisticated buggy controller daemon called BME`
`03:52.08`	`cehteh`	`the bq24150 is the charger chip in the n900? and bq27200 is the battery gauge only?`
`03:53.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes`
`03:53.47`	`ShadowJK`	`3.54V is more than enough to boot a bootloadrr and hand over charging though :P`
`03:53.51`	`ShadowJK`	`which is the idea of it`
`03:54.01`	`cehteh`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:54.02`	`cehteh`	`Memory Location: 01, Reset State: 0011 0000 (30H)`
`03:54.19`	`cehteh`	`.. ok looks like that, first 2 bits set charge current`
`03:54.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: sure, if there's anything to handle charging X-P`
`03:54.49`	`cehteh`	`but .. i'd expect i cant poke into that and bme agrees with me`
`03:55.05`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: get ShadowJK 's charger skript aka the real jrbme`
`03:55.05`	`ShadowJK`	`btw charge21.sh logs errors from bq24150 in MyDocs/charge.log`
`03:55.24`	`cehteh`	`ShadowJK: where is your script?`
`03:55.47`	`ShadowJK`	`And, bme does do some sort of incremental current backoff`
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`03:56.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it doesn't according to all my tracing`
`03:56.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`If it sees a bad source you mean?`
`03:56.12`	`ShadowJK`	`http://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge21.sh maybe`
`03:56.17`	`ShadowJK`	`SpeedEvil, yeah`
`03:56.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ooh that`
`03:56.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`ShadowJK: 404`
`03:56.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`more nifty than I thopught`
`03:56.49`	`cehteh`	`http://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge21.sh.txt google says :)`
`03:57.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah, and I think it should auto-rename to charge21 on first invocation ;-P`
`03:57.54`	`ShadowJK`	`needs i2c-tools`
`03:58.05`	`ShadowJK`	`(extras-devel)`
`03:58.09`	`ShadowJK`	`and bme not running`
`03:58.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you can get those via apt-get though`
`03:58.41`	`cehteh`	`hehe`
`03:58.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`the warning?`
`03:59.42`	`*** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@84-231-60-157.elisa-mobile.fi)`
`03:59.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah, though it's basically correct, I always found they exaggerate a bit on warning about i2ctools can eat your childs and drill holes into your skull`
`04:01.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`while this may be appropriate in general, I think on N900 there's rather little you really could accidentally fsck up`
`04:01.10`	`cehteh`	`i have i2ctools installed anyways`
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`04:01.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`where to do they install for you?`
`04:01.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	ls -l `which i2cget`
`04:02.02`	`cehteh`	`/usr/sbin/i2cget`
`04:02.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:nod: thnx`
`04:02.15`	`cehteh`	`no optified .. dont care`
`04:02.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`meh, there's other crap that needs optification URGENTLY`
`04:02.51`	`cehteh`	`is there a libi2c? .. maybe i turn this script into a C daemon .. when i find some time`
`04:02.58`	`cehteh`	`yes`
`04:03.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`mumbles swearwords about locales-cache`
`04:03.24`	`*** join/#maemo ketas (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee)`
`04:03.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: useless effort really`
`04:03.32`	`cehteh`	`well actually optification is bullshit .. should be normal installation and bind mounts in the first place`
`04:03.44`	`cehteh`	`i am just looking at the script`
`04:03.58`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: we all know that, even infobot`
`04:04.03`	`ShadowJK`	`i2c-devel or something. It's basically all headers, not much of a lib`
`04:04.17`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
`04:04.31`	`ShadowJK`	`likes busybox sh though, can edit it on the go and doesn't need recompile :-)`
`04:04.56`	`cehteh`	`yeah i like sh for prototyping too`
`04:05.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: if you really want to do sth useful about it, go for a cmdline replacement for hal-addon-bme to tell hal about battery status from scripts`
`04:05.26`	`cehteh`	`didnt bme petting the watchdog?`
`04:05.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`indeed, as does charger`
`04:06.01`	`ShadowJK`	`Missing stuff: error recovery, retry with lower charge rate, event-driven instead of polling`
`04:06.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that'S the whole purpose of the critter`
`04:06.20`	`ShadowJK`	`and managing usb crap`
`04:06.44`	`cehteh`	`ShadowJK: yes`
`04:06.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`event driven - another useful domain to hack: give us an open replacement for ke-recv`
`04:06.56`	`cehteh`	`well currently i have no time`
`04:07.14`	`ShadowJK`	`and the chip behaves differently from what one would think after reading the datasheet :D`
`04:07.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`depends on what you think`
`04:07.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-P`
`04:07.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I always found it in line with my expectations`
`04:08.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`of course jmping a few of the statemachine states can leave you puzzled`
`04:09.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`for hw there's no such thing as "I did this almost same time"`
`04:09.44`	`ShadowJK`	`I'm not sure if the side effect of reading status register was in datasheet :P`
`04:09.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`set your registers first - then enable their usage`
`04:10.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`there's no such thing according to my observations`
`04:10.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`reading status register is side effect free for me`
`04:11.49`	`ShadowJK`	`I've managed to confuse bme by reading status register in a loop, because then it's a race between my loop and bme who will see the real status first`
`04:12.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`but it's quite easy to trigger side effects by the way and timing you read`
`04:12.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I did eactly this and it worked flawlessly`
`04:12.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`iirc`
`04:13.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`at least bme for sure didn't complain or act up`
`04:13.18`	`ShadowJK`	`Normally nothing happens where it would matter, because bme mostly looks at gaia vbus`
`04:13.25`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
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`04:14.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hell, bme shouldn't look for any vbus`
`04:14.29`	`*** part/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@91-66-18-182-dynip.superkabel.de)`
`04:14.35`	`ShadowJK`	`vbus doesn't need polling`
`04:14.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`there's simply no need to 'look at vbus'`
`04:15.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`24150 will tell bme all about vbus status`
`04:15.20`	`ShadowJK`	`it's how bme reacts faster than 15s on charger removed :P`
`04:15.32`	`ShadowJK`	`or inserted`
`04:15.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and of course kevents will tell ke-recv and bme about vbus applied`
`04:16.43`	`*** join/#maemo x29a (~x29a@unaffiliated/x29a)`
`04:16.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`curses the lack of any general purpose kevents-monitor cmdline tool similar to dbus-monitor`
`04:16.57`	`*** join/#maemo kama (~kama@unaffiliated/kama)`
`04:17.21`	`ShadowJK`	`So undervoltage big enough to make bq24150 upset and reset to defaults, but not so big to make gaia vbus drop, grab error from bq24150 before bme, bme sees normal status next check, bq24150 is left in post-reset configuration ;p`
`04:17.28`	`*** join/#maemo Gorroth (~grimw@ool-457c30be.dyn.optonline.net)`
`04:17.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`there's udev-admin but that's just a teeny bit off topic`
`04:18.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's your way to tell the story - I'm still highly doubtfull about the reset-on-read thing of status`
`04:19.05`	`ShadowJK`	`clear on read`
`04:19.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`not here`
`04:19.41`	`cehteh`	`ok .. poking in i2c registers while bme is runnin doesnt work, yeah i didnt expected that`
`04:19.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`could've toldya`
`04:20.03`	`cehteh`	`yes yes`
`04:20.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you shouldn't do such things ;-)`
`04:20.16`	`ShadowJK`	`I can get 9 hour old error out of it too, the triggering cause being long gone too :P`
`04:20.17`	`cehteh`	`i hoped bme looked away this time :P`
`04:20.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bme reprograms all registers every 15s or so`
`04:21.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`almost`
`04:21.09`	`cehteh`	`prolly faster`
`04:21.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bme totally has b24250 on strings, not allowing it to do the right thing`
`04:22.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`the bme devels didn't understand there's a cpu inside the chip that does all that for them`
`04:22.26`	`cehteh`	`yeah`
`04:22.40`	`ShadowJK`	`Once I changed charge rate after bme started charge, and bme didn't change it at all until next unplug/plug`
`04:22.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`the reimplemented a punchcard reader as known from N8x0 on a cray`
`04:23.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: I'm not sure which registers are under supervision of bme, maybe rate isn't`
`04:24.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I got logs of all i2c traffic`
`04:24.17`	`ShadowJK`	`I've never actually seen bme change parameters except as a result of exceptions`
`04:24.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`need lots of aspirin and beer to read it`
`04:25.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`whatever, you definitely don't want to mess with bme`
`04:25.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: ShadowJK 's script is nice and clean and commented, just edit the max-current setting`
`04:25.55`	`cehteh`	`yes`
`04:26.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though I honestly think you better should investigate rather than fixing a hypothetical case`
`04:26.17`	`cehteh`	`i likely improve it a bit but not now ..`
`04:26.43`	`cehteh`	`read max current from some /tmp file so one can change that on the fly, possibly with some gui`
`04:27.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cough`
`04:27.15`	`cehteh`	`(queen beecon..)`
`04:27.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cough`
`04:27.23`	`cehteh`	`haha`
`04:27.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`a) not tmp`
`04:27.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`b) use pipes`
`04:27.48`	`ShadowJK`	`then people will set it to 1250 and meltdown their phones :)`
`04:27.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`c) use sigusr1`
`04:27.53`	`cehteh`	`nah`
`04:27.57`	`cehteh`	`thats impossible`
`04:28.22`	`cehteh`	`and of course safeguard it, just allow to lower the current not increase`
`04:28.24`	`ShadowJK`	`pipes are almost unusable for that from sh, and signals aren't much better`
`04:28.47`	`ShadowJK`	`only uses 1250 for hotswap now`
`04:29.24`	`cehteh`	`1250 will melt the chip on extended time spans?`
`04:30.00`	`cehteh`	`wants some gui button "i am on my bike, dont charge more than 500ma`
`04:30.20`	`ShadowJK`	`Also the battery cell is only rated for 925mA charge iirc`
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`04:31.01`	`SpeedEvil`	`Most cells I've seen ar rated for 1C charge`
`04:31.23`	`wblaze`	`cehteh: out of curiosity, what are you trying to accomplish?`
`04:31.42`	`ShadowJK`	`Most high capacity ones I've seen are rated for less`
`04:32.22`	`*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)`
`04:32.32`	`ShadowJK`	`cehteh, you know, my tekkeon doesn't make bme or bq24150 freak out despite its current capability dropping to less than 500mA :P`
`04:32.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`damn reconnects`
`04:32.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what's impossible?`
`04:32.40`	`cehteh`	`wblaze: i have a bike dynamo charger / battery and it sometimes doesnt charge, presumely because of voltage drops, so i'd like to try to limit the charge current to a lower level`
`04:32.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`he's superman and I'm the siversurfer, nothing is impossible`
`04:32.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and for maemo and N900, everything can happen today or tomorrow`
`04:32.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`;-P`
`04:32.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`seen http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1023402&postcount=821 ??`
`04:32.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`esp the left-over comment header in the script...`
`04:33.41`	`cehteh`	`anyways at home i almost always charging at my usb-hub too, the wallcharger is in the sleeping room`
`04:34.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: ShadowJK: esp when VBUS too low, I think N900 has another message to user than "can not charge"`
`04:34.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`Also - VBUS overvoltage can be benign if the voltage is in the range 6.3-7. (but...)`
`04:34.27`	`wblaze`	`cehteh: neat`
`04:34.35`	`cehteh`	`"Akku wird nicht geladen" iirc`
`04:34.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I lowered VBUS to sth like 3.5V and charging actually didn't happen, still N900 signalled charging is good`
`04:34.56`	`cehteh`	`thats what i get`
`04:35.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: better investigate instead of headless "fixing" an unclear issue`
`04:36.00`	`cehteh`	`DocScrutinizer: for a DCDC controlled input it shouldnt do overvoltage .. and i already saied, if i use that startionary to charge it doesnt happen`
`04:36.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so what?`
`04:36.20`	`cehteh`	`DocScrutinizer: i dont have the equipment to investigate this properly`
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`04:36.41`	`cehteh`	`next DMM on the handlebar :)`
`04:36.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`this only means you're short of ideas. Your explanation is rether a bit more unlikely to be correct than overvoltage is`
`04:36.52`	`cehteh`	`better a logging one (i dont have)`
`04:37.01`	`ShadowJK`	`DocScrutinizer, iirc that happens when D+/D- still short, voltage drops low enough to trip 24150, but still high enough for 'vbus' to read as 1 on gaia`
`04:37.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`possible`
`04:37.35`	`*** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`04:37.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`but then how comes charging commences when voltage goes up again?`
`04:37.55`	`*** join/#maemo Necc (~user@netacc-gpn-4-6-107.pool.telenor.hu)`
`04:37.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`if bq24150 got reset, this can't happen`
`04:38.00`	`cehteh`	`hence my first idea to buffer it with some caps .. might or might not help but costs 50 cents, and if it works i am happy`
`04:38.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you can try this, but you'd need like 100mF/10V`
`04:38.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, no problem nowadays`
`04:38.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`not even lowESR`
`04:39.07`	`cehteh`	`hehe .. 6V should be enough or? :)`
`04:39.13`	`cehteh`	`who needs a safety marigin`
`04:39.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no way`
`04:39.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`those are always best case volzages`
`04:39.44`	`cehteh`	`ok`
`04:39.47`	`*** join/#maemo skule (~svs@exitus.logiva.dk)`
`04:39.54`	`*** join/#maemo Roomerlol (~Roomerlol@89-178-18-227.broadband.corbina.ru)`
`04:40.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I've never seen a 6V circuit equipped with 6.3V Cs`
`04:40.29`	`cehteh`	`well 100mF are bit much :) .. i was thinking about 4700Âµ thats easily doable .. and a 47Âµ tantal`
`04:40.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`rarely ever a 5V circuit`
`04:40.48`	`cehteh`	`but yes this is guesswork .. i dont have the equipment to test`
`04:40.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`forget the tantal, use a 1uF foil`
`04:41.42`	`cehteh`	`1Âµ foil is much biggier, isnt it?`
`04:42.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`without equipment and with no desire to write proper testing software, your approach probably is the next sane thing to do`
`04:42.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`use 100nF then`
`04:42.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`tantal are mostly worthless`
`04:42.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`for this purpose`
`04:43.05`	`ShadowJK`	`did wonder why people want to stick tantal everywhere`
`04:43.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no idea`
`04:43.14`	`cehteh`	`dont you have a regulated power supply and can simulate undervoltage?`
`04:43.27`	`cehteh`	`maybe with some resistor in series`
`04:43.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I have`
`04:43.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and I did`
`04:43.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`as I said above`
`04:44.07`	`Macer`	`blah`
`04:44.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=565-2601-ND`
`04:44.13`	`cehteh`	`ShadowJK: the nicest thing about tantals is that when they blow up, they explode multiple times`
`04:44.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`One of these caps, maybe`
`04:44.29`	`SpeedEvil`	`Possibly two`
`04:44.34`	`ShadowJK`	`My energizer 2 * AA "emergency charger" is happier with a cap on the input`
`04:45.01`	`Macer`	`my g2 is srewesc`
`04:45.09`	`cehteh`	`looks huge :)`
`04:45.16`	`Macer`	`blah`
`04:45.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`honestly, it's really easy to build a electronic "blowfuse" that triggers and holds on 6.5V, and another one that resets on <4.5V`
`04:46.04`	`Macer`	`it is starting to drive me nuts`
`04:46.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Macer: pleased to hear :-P`
`04:46.36`	`Macer`	`haha`
`04:46.42`	`Macer`	`itsucks`
`04:46.43`	`*** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.74.85.229)`
`04:47.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ok, hear hear! Macer suggests to stay on N900`
`04:47.24`	`Macer`	`the sensor for the "trackball" is broken`
`04:47.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`now I'm not sure we need to know details`
`04:47.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`;-D`
`04:48.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`unless we'll learn from them about general "this sucks, avoid" lessons for particular hw components and techniques`
`04:48.57`	`Macer`	`yeah`
`04:49.11`	`cehteh`	`http://www.reichelt.de/Becher-Elkos/BE-100-000-16/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=2;ARTICLE=5383;GROUPID=3146;SID=10TU6VC38AAAIAACUNLgk08edb0187f320c5739196d5597ae81f8`
`04:49.18`	`cehteh`	`ok thats not 50 cent :P`
`04:49.20`	`Macer`	`htc makes some pretty flimsy gear`
`04:49.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so, if anything, we learn "trackballs on mobile phones suck"`
`04:49.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`we learn "htc makes flimsy gear"`
`04:49.58`	`Macer`	`:)`
`04:50.06`	`Macer`	`their g1 trackball wasn't too bad`
`04:50.11`	`ShadowJK`	`isn't it like upside down optical mouse?`
`04:50.18`	`Macer`	`yes`
`04:50.28`	`ShadowJK`	`or does it have actual ball?`
`04:50.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`now this reduces the value of your previous lesson`
`04:50.54`	`ShadowJK`	`wishes someone made bluetooth trackball`
`04:51.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: the reverted optical mouse is also in Samsung omnia`
`04:51.18`	`Macer`	`ShadowJK: g1 had a ball. g2 has the optical mouse`
`04:51.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it's kinda nice and sturdy, but not the HID for me`
`04:51.52`	`Macer`	`honestly nokia makes the most solid stuff i've ever used`
`04:51.59`	`Macer`	`too bad their future products are going to suck :)`
`04:52.13`	`ShadowJK`	`has a fullsize logitech wireless optical trackball on his desk`
`04:52.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I hate HIDs that have no direct relation between position of your finger(s) and cursor pos`
`04:52.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`equally bad for me`
`04:52.31`	`ShadowJK`	`optical as in, there are optical sensors detecting the ball spinning`
`04:52.46`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I know these, hate them too`
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`04:53.05`	`Macer`	`ShadowJK: i think the g1 was analog`
`04:53.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`last tzime I bitched about it, I called trackball F' and trackpoint F''`
`04:53.24`	`Macer`	`small spinning gears? :) idk`
`04:53.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`while mouse and touchscreen and tablet/pad are F`
`04:53.49`	`wblaze`	`I love trackpoint :(`
`04:54.25`	`Macer`	`n900 seems to get along just fine without a trackball type addition`
`04:54.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I suggest you get a mosue driver with cursor innertia then, even more cute`
`04:55.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`accelerate cursor, whatch it fly, then decelerate it, using your trackpoint`
`04:55.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`I like my trackpoint.`
`04:55.37`	`ShadowJK`	`trackball would be nice on symbian, as symbian makes scrolling and selecting stuff difficult`
`04:56.08`	`Macer`	`"would have been"`
`04:56.10`	`Macer`	`heh`
`04:56.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	as long as it isn'z a return-to-origin type of control for cursor pos, you can take your trackpoint and do ****` with it
`04:56.41`	`ShadowJK`	`let's go back to using paddles`
`04:56.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah`
`04:56.49`	`Macer`	`hahaha`
`04:57.03`	`wblaze`	`oh, n900 with a paddle would rock`
`04:57.04`	`Macer`	`etch-a-sketch style?`
`04:57.11`	`ShadowJK`	`yeah`
`04:57.33`	`wblaze`	`miniture mobile 2600 emulator`
`04:57.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`honestly, moving cursor with a trackpoint is like driving autoscooter with a remote control`
`04:57.49`	`Macer`	`bonus points to whomever can make it go exactly 45 degrees`
`04:58.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bonus points for anybody writing a single word with trackpoint`
`04:58.28`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
`04:58.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no block letters`
`04:58.44`	`wblaze`	`DocScrutinizer: as in graphic design?`
`04:58.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes`
`04:58.56`	`wblaze`	`I have done it`
`04:59.12`	`wblaze`	`aucks, but workable in a pinch`
`04:59.18`	`cehteh`	`n8`
`04:59.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`damn, you misz be starfighter pilot in your daytime job`
`04:59.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`must*`
`04:59.50`	`wblaze`	`glorified monitoring app`
`04:59.52`	`wblaze`	`lol`
`05:00.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`then, to make game more funny, do the same writing with trackpoint while your eyes closed`
`05:01.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you bet I win with touchpad or tablet or mouse or touchscreen`
`05:01.42`	`wblaze`	`never had an occasion to need that particular skill`
`05:02.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it's not a skill, it's an idealized test bed`
`05:02.08`	`wblaze`	`I never said it was superior, just that I like it`
`05:02.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it's a fringe case to show limitations`
`05:03.32`	`wblaze`	`I don't know how this got to be an argument on merit`
`05:03.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`otoh a trackpoint might be great for exact cursor positioning when in a really limited space environment, like a shaking airplane, economy class seat`
`05:04.32`	`wblaze`	`thats close enough to the reason I needed it for graphic design`
`05:04.46`	`DocScrutinizer`	`on speed of actions you're definitely better with direct-movement-projection HIDs like mice`
`05:05.27`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, all depends on your usage patterns and preferences`
`05:05.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no point in arguing about it :-D`
`05:06.08`	`ShadowJK`	`should try use two sticks`
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`05:06.26`	`SpeedEvil`	`Speaking personally.`
`05:06.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`I have a keyboard with integrated trackpoint and touchpad.`
`05:06.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`I never ever use the touchpad.`
`05:07.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I also hate the touchpad of my laptop`
`05:07.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`always using a normal mouse instead`
`05:07.28`	`wblaze`	`SpeedEvil: I was the same way until I started finding it hard to find a system with a trackpoint`
`05:07.54`	`wblaze`	`then I started paying attention to the touchpad`
`05:07.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`touchpad usually is closer to a trackball than to a mouse`
`05:07.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'm currently using a external keyboard.`
`05:08.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`IBM spacesaver (PS/2)`
`05:08.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`It also comes in USB, but secondhand PS2 was cheapr`
`05:08.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`too ;'( >:-(`
`05:08.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`see my ovi recent upload`
`05:08.53`	`wblaze`	`I'm currently using my n900 keyboard while sitting next to a full size keyboard`
`05:09.10`	`wblaze`	`I think we established I do things the hard way`
`05:09.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`WHAT a PILE OF plastic SHIT this kbd is`
`05:09.13`	`wblaze`	`heh`
`05:09.30`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'm lying down, keyboard on lap, under blankets, eyes closed.`
`05:09.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`5$ kbd`
`05:10.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`aah, you got espeak connected to xchat finally, SpeedEvil ?`
`05:10.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`No, I open my eyes some of the time.`
`05:10.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hehe`
`05:11.33`	`wblaze`	`lol`
`05:11.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I could send you a .wav collection with the ~350 words I need to write on IRC, so you could get me with original voice ;-P`
`05:12.46`	`DocScrutinizer`	`includes a BURP, recirded close to mic`
`05:13.44`	`*** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-174-111-058-051.triad.res.rr.com)`
`05:15.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: I'll do further tests to learn I've been wrong, or to defend bq24150's innocence :-D`
`05:15.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`easy, I just need an additional line in my vboost script`
`05:16.16`	`*** join/#maemo dm8tbr (dm8tbr@2001:41b8:0:f010::2)`
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`05:18.15`	`ShadowJK`	`I have no data on vboost behaviour :-)`
`05:18.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`if status actually resets on read, I have to reread and comment on the datasheet somewhere`
`05:19.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`now I really hope behaviour of status readout is consistent between boost and charge mode`
`05:19.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-S`
`05:20.01`	`ShadowJK`	`Well imagine what would happen with intermittent errors if the status wasn't stored and held until readout :-)`
`05:20.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hell the status shouldn't get teset on read!!`
`05:21.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`at least I'd think the datasheet should state damn clearly WHEN it gets reset`
`05:22.19`	`ShadowJK`	`iirc the state diagram kinda implies undefined behaviour unless you switch charge/boost off and reconfigure after any exception or error :-)`
`05:23.05`	`*** join/#maemo ab (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)`
`05:23.54`	`ShadowJK`	`Originally I only noticed because I had a status readout at start of loop, and at the end of loop, and wondered why it would always be error on one line and 0x10 on the next :-)`
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`05:36.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: you're definitely right - >> Fault condition is cleared by POR and fault status bits can only be updated after the status bits are read out by the host.<< is pretty clear`
`05:41.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`also for all interested parties: >> USB Friendly Boot-Up Sequence At power on reset (POR) of VBUS, if the battery voltage is above the weak battery threshold, V(LOWV), bq24150 operates in a mode dictated by the I2C control registers. If the battery voltage is below V(LOWV) and the host control through I2C interface is lost (32 minute mode), the bq24150 resets all I2C registers with default values and enable the charger with an input current`
`05:41.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`limit dictated by the OTG pin voltage level until the host programs the I2C registers. During this period, the input current limit is 100 mA when the voltage level of OTG pin is low; while the input current limit is 500 mA when the voltage level of OTG pin is high. This feature can revive the deeply discharged cell. The charge process continues even the battery is charged to the regulation voltage [3.54V, 32minutes max]<<`
`05:43.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`in short: without sw-control the charger chip will charge bat to max 3,54V, for a max of 32min, at a current of 100mA from PC and 500mA from wallcharger`
`05:43.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`during this time the LED shows steady yellow`
`05:44.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~flatbat-recover`
`05:44.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~flatbatrecover`
`05:44.06`	`infobot`	`Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover`
`05:44.57`	`*** join/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@117.136.12.196)`
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`05:46.28`	`ShadowJK`	`also check what happens on 32m timer expiration`
`05:46.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: you can select input current from 100/500/unlimited`
`05:47.04`	`ShadowJK`	`800 too`
`05:47.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm yep`
`05:47.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what happens on 32min expiry?`
`05:47.43`	`*** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-174-111-058-051.triad.res.rr.com)`
`05:48.10`	`ShadowJK`	`i have a vague memory of the state diagram going back to the beginning`
`05:48.32`	`*** part/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@117.136.12.196)`
`05:48.39`	`*** join/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@117.136.12.196)`
`05:48.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`LOL`
`05:48.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`after the 32-second timer is reset. If the 32-second timer expires, the charge is terminated and charge`
`05:48.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`parameters are reset to default values. Then the 32-minute timer starts and the charge resumes.`
`05:48.48`	`*** part/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@117.136.12.196)`
`05:48.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`oops, nope`
`05:49.54`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@adsl-67-112-18-34.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)`
`05:50.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`according to state diagram it enters "TIMER FAULT"`
`05:50.15`	`ShadowJK`	`what happens after that?`
`05:50.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`on any fault it should stop all charging, no?`
`05:50.58`	`ShadowJK`	`iirc it enters fault, no charging, 32s timer, resets on timer expiry`
`05:51.14`	`ShadowJK`	`back to charging?`
`05:51.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`wut?`
`05:51.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`32s timer only starts when I2C activity`
`05:52.07`	`ShadowJK`	`hm`
`05:52.43`	`*** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@122.151.82.134)`
`05:52.59`	`Termana`	`good morning`
`05:53.12`	`ShadowJK`	`sleeps`
`05:53.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`morning Termana`
`05:53.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: The bq24150/1 provides a built-in input over-voltage protection to protect the device and other components against damages if the input voltage (Voltage from VBUS to PGND) goes too high. When an input overvoltage condition is detected, bq24150/1 turns off the PWM converter, sets fault status bits, and sends out fault pulse in STAT pin. Once VBUS drops below the input overvoltage exit threshold, the fault is cleared and charge`
`05:53.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`process resumes.`
`05:57.37`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
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`06:08.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: in fact on 32min expiry the chip enters charge configure mode, sets /CE=1 and stops charging, and waits for /CE=0, wich aiui happens on POR only`
`06:08.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or on I2C-reset of course`
`06:10.23`	`*** join/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi)`
`06:10.25`	`robbiethe1st`	`DocScrutinizer: I will say I don't think BME monitors that overvoltage fault pin`
`06:10.44`	`robbiethe1st`	`I ended up sending 12V into it, and got absolutely no message other than "charging"`
`06:10.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`definitely not`
`06:11.02`	`*** part/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi)`
`06:11.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`oh, you're talking about the state, not the pin`
`06:11.22`	`robbiethe1st`	`Yea`
`06:11.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, dunno if bme cares or not`
`06:11.28`	`*** join/#maemo Zahra (~Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax)`
`06:12.04`	`robbiethe1st`	`Oh, that reminds me: Would it be possible to replace the microB backend with the one from, say Fennec/FF4?`
`06:14.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`golden: >> OPA_MODE is the operation mode control bit. When OPA_MODE = 0, the bq24150/1 charges the related operation modes if HZ_MODE is set to "0", refer to Table 2 for detail.`
`06:14.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`this is what chinese/japanese datasheets translated get you`
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`06:32.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`robbiethe1st: no doubt however about bq24150 sensing and signalling VBUS-OV in status bits (R00[2:0]=001 -> VBUS OVP)`
`06:33.02`	`robbiethe1st`	`Hm, good`
`06:34.23`	`*** join/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi)`
`06:35.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`>> Input Overvoltage Protection The bq24150/1 provides a built-in input over-voltage protection to protect the device and other components against damages if the input voltage (Voltage from VBUS to PGND) goes too high. When an input overvoltage condition is detected, bq24150/1 turns off the PWM converter, sets fault status bits, and sends out fault pulse in STAT pin. Once VBUS drops below the input overvoltage exit threshold, the fault is`
`06:35.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cleared and charge process resumes.`
`06:36.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`this suggests short spikes recover and go unnoticed`
`06:37.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`exactly what ShadowJK mentioned to be worse than reset-on-read`
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`06:38.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`"...the fault is cleared..." without any chance to get noticed on what sort of reliable means soever`
`06:39.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`nothing to latch up the event, to read out async`
`06:40.09`	`*** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio92@unaffiliated/kerio92)`
`06:40.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`as robbiethe1st said, the STAT pin is only driving the amber LED and is not monitored by CPU`
`06:41.24`	`arvut`	`hello and gooood moning`
`06:41.46`	`Jaffa`	`Morning, all`
`06:42.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`OTOH when cehteh says the device signals "charging not possible" then the condition has to stay long enough to log it by frequent polling of status register`
`06:42.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`morn`
`06:42.50`	`arvut`	`ing`
`06:43.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cehteh: you should shorten the poll-loop sleep in shadowjk's charger script to 1s (or less) to get proper logs about transient errors of VBUS`
`06:45.15`	`mece`	`I'm sure this is a good place to ask, so here goes. Anybody here knows how to administer profiles on Windows xp?`
`06:45.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Jaffa: how's life?`
`06:45.36`	`*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B3668F9.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`06:45.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cough`
`06:45.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`administer what?`
`06:45.51`	`mece`	`well`
`06:45.59`	`arvut`	`mece: ##windows :)`
`06:46.04`	`mece`	`%appdata% variable points to something that doesn't exist`
`06:46.14`	`mece`	`arvut, people aren't friendly in other channels`
`06:46.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you thing with me in this chan your choice been better ? ;-P`
`06:46.46`	`arvut`	`mece: true dat. but this is for the maemo linux os, not win xp`
`06:46.47`	`mece`	`also, I assume people who actually use windows out of choice don't know shit about windows, or they wouldn't be using it.`
`06:47.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lol`
`06:47.43`	`arvut`	`I've used windows xp since it came out. nowadays I either use win 7 or ubuntu`
`06:47.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`good point`
`06:47.50`	`mece`	`arvut, really? Linux? Is that the newest version of windows?`
`06:48.12`	`mece`	`is joking`
`06:48.19`	`arvut`	`not funny`
`06:48.25`	`mece`	`was a little bit funny`
`06:48.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`mece: http://xkcd.com/424/`
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`06:49.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so much for true nature of buntkuh`
`06:49.27`	`mece`	`DocScrutinizer, funny because true`
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`06:50.01`	`mece`	`DocScrutinizer, I use Mint, which is the Windows 7 version of ubuntu`
`06:50.14`	`arvut`	`DocScrutinizer: that was funny tho, especially the ubuntu winvista joke =)`
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`06:52.00`	`arvut`	`mece: its more like the already-configured ubuntu ;)`
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`06:52.42`	`mece`	`arvut, but the already-configured ubuntu is called ubuntu`
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`06:53.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`looking at XKCD 424 I have a hard time stopping mumbling "maemo FIASCO" every time`
`06:53.32`	`mece`	`there's a new debian flavor mint tho. That does sound like a very nice thing for lazy gits like me`
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`06:53.58`	`arvut`	`mece: even-further configured ubuntu then`
`06:54.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`maemo devels @ Nokia had a rather strange kind of humor`
`06:54.26`	`arvut`	`or simply lazy man's ubuntu`
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`06:54.41`	`mece`	`DocScrutinizer, teehee. I always wondered why they are called fiasco. I mean sure it's a mess, but fiasco? Hardly. Atleast when compared to the rest of the mobile crowd`
`06:54.52`	`mece`	`arvut, yes. That is spot on!`
`06:55.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`mece: nokia devels are clever - fiasco also means flask`
`06:55.38`	`mece`	`But alas, I am stuck with this broken piece of dung, and I need to fix this`
`06:55.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I heard NOLO also isn't a nice word at some places in the world`
`06:56.35`	`arvut`	`like a windows addicted friend of mine said (he even prefers IE before firefox!) : "windows if you want problems and mac OS if you're a complete idiot at computers"`
`06:56.37`	`mece`	`yep. means "embarrassed"`
`06:57.16`	`mece`	`arvut, aside from his awkward addiction, your friend seems like a smart man`
`06:57.17`	`arvut`	`he didnt mention linux tho but I know he tried to install red hat 11 years ago`
`06:57.18`	`mece`	`or woman`
`06:58.24`	`arvut`	`mece: hes actually quite brilliant when it comes to smartness. but too stubborn to move away from his beloved windows.`
`06:58.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`windows always been the text adventure for the tech ignorant and ignorant about that fact masochists`
`06:59.00`	`mece`	`arvut, well that is his prerogative`
`06:59.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`those who know they're tech ignorant like to opt for mac`
`06:59.49`	`arvut`	`I like problemsolving too, just like he does. but I tend to expand my area or work when I feel there is need for a new challenge, hence why I've been stuck in linux 4 the last 3 years :P`
`07:00.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`linux 4 ??`
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`07:00.44`	`mece`	`"for"`
`07:00.52`	`mece`	`not four`
`07:00.59`	`arvut`	`DocScrutinizer: yeah, but it do make sense tho. you get things done and dont have to bother about problemsolving too much. its the tool that rarely breaks`
`07:01.14`	`mece`	`or?`
`07:01.14`	`arvut`	`ty mece :)`
`07:01.18`	`mece`	`:)`
`07:01.22`	`arvut`	`yes, for`
`07:01.26`	`arvut`	`I was lazy`
`07:02.07`	`arvut`	`an admin on a russian cs server just gave me a 4 week vacation :)`
`07:02.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`train your speech recog sw, dude! ;-D`
`07:02.51`	`arvut`	`nah, I like shorting words down when typing on the n900`
`07:03.14`	`arvut`	`longer keyboard life that way :)`
`07:03.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sometimes leaving out "words" better than abrev`
`07:04.16`	`arvut`	`I get that, took some explaining, whihc means more typing. thus not saving keyboard life`
`07:05.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or`
`07:06.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no "word > wrong "word"`
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`07:13.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`umm`
`07:13.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~dict frdhsgf`
`07:13.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~dict sigill`
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`07:15.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~dict sigill`
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`07:17.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`GAN900: there's been a reason for this chan +c ?`
`07:18.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`(what's the rationale of any channel having +c?)`
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`08:20.35`	`*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council \| Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources \| Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED, and keep clear of that shit! (we're fed up with 3 user requests / day)`
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`08:30.49`	`hiemanshu`	`+c means allowing/disallowing colors in the channel`
`08:30.54`	`hiemanshu`	`colored/bold text`
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`08:59.06`	`lardman`	`morning`
`08:59.40`	`lardman`	`it's taken a while but I've just received my first skype call`
`08:59.59`	`lardman`	`and it's still annoying that you don't see the phone number/type that is calling you`
`09:00.13`	`lardman`	`presumes there must be a bug for this`
`09:02.03`	`MohammadAG51`	`lardman, skype icon next to avatar`
`09:02.16`	`lardman`	`didn't see that`
`09:02.26`	`lardman`	`this contact doesn't have an avatar though`
`09:02.33`	`MohammadAG51`	`blue avatar`
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`09:03.02`	`lardman`	`hmm, no, I don't think that was there tbh`
`09:03.10`	`lardman`	`I would have noticed it`
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`09:03.45`	`MohammadAG51`	`I'm pretty sure it's there, I receive lots of skype calls`
`09:04.17`	`lardman`	`I'll check tomorrow, but I did just sit there looking at the screen thinking this is going to cost the caller lots of money if it's a normal gsm call`
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`09:06.02`	`lardman`	`wow, there are lots of bugs against the phone/sms/messaging component`
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`09:10.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hiemanshu: thought as much, thanks. That's not been the question though`
`09:11.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ooh, sorry, you answered to arvut / edheldil`
`09:12.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`actually +c means colors are not allowed`
`09:14.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG51: any notion about +c?`
`09:14.38`	`wam`	`Test05test`
`09:14.40`	`wam`	`hmm`
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`09:19.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lardman: I sometimes wonder if the integration went just a bit too far wrt IM/SMS/Skype/VoIP/GSM`
`09:19.35`	`lardman`	`no, I like the integration, would just be good to have some indication of exactly where to or from your message call will be going`
`09:19.51`	`lardman`	`same's true of the messaging bit, never quite sure which number an sms will go to`
`09:20.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I also like the integration, what I don't like is the missing choice wehn it comes to the handling backends`
`09:21.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`anyway the missing number display is a LOOOONG pending ticket`
`09:21.23`	`RST38h`	`Moo all`
`09:21.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`mooorst`
`09:21.47`	`MohammadAG51`	`lardman, send a message to echo-chinese saying "callme"`
`09:22.04`	`MohammadAG51`	`I'm pretty sure there's an icon`
`09:22.05`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lol`
`09:22.26`	`MohammadAG51`	`DocScrutinizer, 4people should be able to use colours`
`09:22.45`	`MohammadAG51`	`looks for that rainbow script`
`09:22.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so why are so many channels +c then?`
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`09:23.08`	`edheldil`	`For some reason, chanserv help on flags does not list +c flag`
`09:23.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`errr, not sure if it lists chanmodes at all`
`09:23.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`for sure not all`
`09:24.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml here you go`
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`09:40.38`	`hiemanshu`	`DocScrutinizer: yeah, thats why the 'allowing/disallowing' part :D`
`09:41.11`	`hiemanshu`	`DocScrutinizer: most channels are +c because its considered spamming and can get out of hand at times`
`09:41.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, never seen any issues so far`
`09:42.18`	`hiemanshu`	`well some times, we have had a lot of spammers and other issues before freenode shifted to Seven`
`09:42.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`anyway, I enabled colors a few minutes ago. If anybody feels this is causing problems or just inconveniences for him, let me know`
`09:44.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or alternatively talk to any of the chanops listed in accesslist ( /msg chanserv access #maemo list )`
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`09:47.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hiemanshu: how would colors make spamming and bot attacks worse?`
`09:47.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hiemanshu: are there known exploits?`
`09:47.57`	`hiemanshu`	`DocScrutinizer: imagine multiple lines of rainbow text about pics of nakes girls`
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`09:48.13`	`hiemanshu`	`no known exploits, it just hurts the eyes`
`09:48.25`	`hiemanshu`	`rainbow colors makes stuff hard to read`
`09:48.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`will hurt eyes either way`
`09:48.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`color abuse is a sure kickban, no doubt`
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`09:49.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so is spamming in general`
`09:49.32`	`hiemanshu`	`yeah, thats the thing`
`09:49.41`	`hiemanshu`	`and spamming with color abuse is worse`
`09:50.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`maybe I see the difference when I eventually see the difference ;-)`
`09:50.46`	`mece`	`alterego, gotten your dirty hands on the mythical harmattan device(s)?`
`09:50.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I'd think for me as chanop color spamming is especially easy to spot`
`09:51.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`meh`
`09:52.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hyttical marmathan`
`09:52.58`	`mece`	`hyttical!`
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`10:24.28`	`lardman`	`wonders what the delay is with the mythical Harmattan device(s)`
`10:25.31`	`mece`	`lardman, first of all, its hyttical, not mythical, second, is it delayed?`
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`10:25.57`	`lardman`	`mece: ah I dunno about the delay bit of course`
`10:26.11`	`lardman`	`looks up hyttical in the dictionary`
`10:26.40`	`mece`	`lardman, might not be there since DocScrutinizer coined it less than an hour ago`
`10:27.06`	`lardman`	`Google decided I meant hypothetical, which is probably about right I guess ;)`
`10:27.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cynical marmouthan`
`10:27.55`	`mece`	`I guess it's a combination of mythical and hypothetical. Actually that makes sense.`
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`10:32.17`	`lardman`	`in any case I do hope they crack on, we're moving next week and I will be internetless`
`10:32.33`	`lardman`	`though perhaps that would be a good thing, less F5 hitting :)`
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`10:39.53`	`Jaffa`	`looks forward to the heretical Harmattan devices.`
`10:40.10`	`Jaffa`	`(well, that's the #meego meaning of hyttical ;-))`
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`10:41.46`	`mece`	`lardman, I love the rumor thread :D`
`10:42.23`	`lardman`	`mece: I check the last page now and then, realising I've missed 10 in between`
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`10:44.35`	`lardman`	`I do (not) love the way some random will just pipe up with a "specification" and then say at the bottom that this is just their wish list`
`10:44.45`	`lardman`	`drives me mad in fact`
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`11:51.08`	`BCMM`	`after restoring a backup on a new N900, my old Alarmed events are still happening. However, they are not showing in the Alarmed GUI, leaving me no obvious way to delete them. Can somebody help?`
`11:52.52`	`mece`	`hey anyone here that could help me with a qdbus thing?`
`11:53.14`	`lardman`	`I have a little experience with it`
`11:54.45`	`BCMM`	`mece reminds me; is there a way to install the qdbus binary on maemo?`
`11:55.09`	`alterego`	`Has anyone had success tethering N900 with ubuntu 11.04 via usb?`
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`12:01.12`	`mgedmin`	`alterego, haven't tried with 11.04 yet, but it used to Just Work(TM) with 10.10`
`12:02.35`	`alterego`	`mgedmin: I know, works great on 10.10`
`12:02.42`	`alterego`	`Well, works on 10.10`
`12:02.50`	`alterego`	`But it fails everytime for 11.04`
`12:02.55`	`mgedmin`	`hm, interesting`
`12:03.10`	`alterego`	`It's recognised as a modem, just doesn't dial and I don't know how to debug nm ..`
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`12:05.28`	`mgedmin`	`tail -f /var/log/daemon.log`
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`12:06.45`	`alterego`	`m'kay, thanks, I'll give that a go.`
`12:06.48`	`mgedmin`	`see also https://live.gnome.org/NetworkManager/Debugging`
`12:06.55`	`mgedmin`	`"Debugging PPP-based connections (3G, PPPoE)"`
`12:06.56`	`alterego`	`Doesn't work via BT either btw ;)`
`12:07.10`	`alterego`	`Ah, cool, thanks! :)`
`12:07.46`	`mgedmin`	`except... "NM 0.8 uses somethingelse so this does not apply"`
`12:07.56`	`mgedmin`	`oh, there's a different section right after`
`12:08.12`	`mgedmin`	`anyway, let me try`
`12:08.34`	`mgedmin`	`yep, fails`
`12:08.42`	`alterego`	`:/`
`12:09.23`	`mece`	`erm`
`12:09.24`	`mece`	`sorry`
`12:09.26`	`mgedmin`	`right, so the log file is not daemon.log, but /var/log/syslog`
`12:09.37`	`mece`	`seems I'm actually too busy to do this right now. Stupid job.`
`12:09.46`	`mgedmin`	`"GSM modem enable failed: (32) Serial command timed out"`
`12:10.17`	`alterego`	`cool`
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`12:11.05`	`mece`	`lardman, anyway I have a separate header file with some qdbus stuff and notifications. But the stupid thing opens a new window when there's a notification. I want it to stack..`
`12:11.31`	`mece`	`lardman, I'm not exactly sure how to do it or whether it has anything to do with qdbus`
`12:11.44`	`lardman`	`is that not an issue with your window props?`
`12:13.08`	`mgedmin`	`why does my browser think I've visited https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=583691 in the past?`
`12:13.10`	`povbot`	`04Bug 583691: was not found.`
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`12:15.30`	`mgedmin`	`fixed upstream`
`12:15.44`	`mece`	`lardman, possibly. Not sure what window props actually mean though.`
`12:16.02`	`mgedmin`	`reported in ubuntu as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/765516`
`12:16.44`	`lardman`	`mece: I'd also need to check them, but afair you can have a top level window or a child window which alters whether they appear in the task mamager, etc`
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`12:20.53`	`mgedmin`	`updates the ubuntu bug with a link to the upstream patch`
`12:21.15`	`mgedmin`	`and now I have doubts about it having worked in 10.10...`
`12:21.53`	`alterego`	`Well, it intermittantly works in 10.10`
`12:22.22`	`alterego`	`You have to unplug and plug it back in when it disconnects to reconnect amongst other oddities.`
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`12:23.58`	`mgedmin`	`oh snap, natty's modemmanager has that fix applied :(`
`12:24.19`	`alterego`	`You're f'ing kidding?`
`12:24.29`	`alterego`	`But it's not in 11.04?`
`12:27.59`	`mgedmin`	`11.04 is natty`
`12:28.17`	`mgedmin`	`which means there is a different bug somewhere`
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`12:34.51`	`alterego`	`Well, this looks like the modem manager is immediately enabling and disabling ttyACM0`
`12:36.20`	`alterego`	`wonders how to get a list of urls from open microb windows ..`
`12:38.14`	`Jaffa`	`alterego: Dunno, but it'd be cool to have something which allowed for better movement of context between N900, Windows, Linux and iPad. Either myself or someone else`
`12:38.32`	`Jaffa`	`alterego: Some kind of broadcast/Bonjour-style "so & so says this is interesting"`
`12:38.51`	`alterego`	`I was just going to write a script, that got open windows and made firefox open them in tabs for me ;)`
`12:38.55`	`alterego`	`Nothing too fancy :D`
`12:40.37`	`alterego`	`I suppose at the very least, it'd be straight forward to implement a browser plugin to do it :)`
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`13:15.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`alterego: dunno what exactly it been but I pondered about microb plugins some time ago`
`13:16.21`	`Macer`	`there are microb plugins?`
`13:16.55`	`Macer`	`what ever happened to chromium on the n900?`
`13:17.07`	`Macer`	`i remember it being in the repos one day then gone`
`13:17.07`	`ShadowJK`	`is this modemmanager thing like notworkmanager, designed to prevent you from surfing the webs?`
`13:17.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`courgette`
`13:17.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`Macer:`
`13:17.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`It was subject to a claim that there was copyvio in it.`
`13:17.50`	`Macer`	`copyvio?`
`13:17.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`nokia pulled it - though there was a fixed version with the code ripped out`
`13:17.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes`
`13:18.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`It was related to the small update stuff`
`13:18.13`	`Macer`	`so..... why wasnt it put back into the repo?`
`13:18.21`	`SpeedEvil`	`nokia legal are annoying`
`13:18.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`actively and on purpose?`
`13:19.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`let's see whom to annoy today`
`13:20.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`tries knocking various tones out of his upstream DSL connection to improve downstream rates.`
`13:21.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`duh! such detailed control over rhat low level stuff?`
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`13:21.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`I have a wierd router. I wish it had GPL though.`
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`13:44.38`	`JackBeSlow`	`So I've got an "interesting" charging problem. My little sister jammed the wrong type of charger in the little nokia charger port of my N900 and ever since then it tells me it is charging even when it's not plugged in and I have no way of knowing my battery life.`
`13:44.53`	`JackBeSlow`	`On top of that I haven't gotten more than 8 hours out of it.`
`13:45.01`	`Appiah`	`ouch`
`13:45.16`	`JackBeSlow`	`Was wondering what the best way to get it repaired would be. It's out of warranty.`
`13:45.23`	`JackBeSlow`	`And I don't have all that much money.`
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`13:58.20`	`rm_work`	`that's...`
`13:58.27`	`rm_work`	`very strange O_o`
`13:58.47`	`rm_work`	`there are a few battery knowledgable people here that might be able to explain that? or at least theorize`
`13:59.07`	`rm_work`	`i recommend hanging out for a while`
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`14:03.07`	`JackBeSlow`	`Will do.`
`14:04.06`	`JackBeSlow`	`Yeah, it's more than a little odd. I've installed battery-eye and battery graph and of course get some really weird readings. Advanced power causes a reboot loop after the first reset that requires reflashing.`
`14:05.06`	`rm_work`	`hrm`
`14:05.37`	`rm_work`	`i wonder if it scrambled something in the charging circuit in the n900 or in the battery itself`
`14:05.51`	`rm_work`	`replacing the battery wouldn't be free but it'd be comparatively cheap`
`14:08.43`	`JackBeSlow`	`Already had a spare I swapped it with. No difference unfortunately so I have to assume it's the charging circuit.`
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`14:15.59`	`madMeerkat_`	`hi there`
`14:16.28`	`madMeerkat_`	`I'm having some issues with the mobility example declarative-camera, can anyone help me?`
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`14:18.28`	`JackBeSlow`	`I've barely messed around with it but what's the issue?`
`14:20.08`	`madMeerkat_`	`I'm using the last Qt SDK (released last may) that include Qt Mobility but when I try running the example included I obtain the following message`
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`14:20.48`	`madMeerkat_`	`qrc:/qml/declarative-camera.qml:42:1: module "QtMultimediKit" is not installed`
`14:21.18`	`madMeerkat_`	`that line says: import QtMultimediKit 1.1`
`14:23.11`	`JackBeSlow`	`Do you know what version of QT Mobility you have?`
`14:23.57`	`madMeerkat_`	`I installed the SDK`
`14:24.57`	`madMeerkat_`	`Qt Mobility version 1.1.3`
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`14:26.30`	`madMeerkat_`	`although I'm developing for a N900 with Maemo5`
`14:26.30`	`JackBeSlow`	`Hmm, wow. It's been a while. I know I had problems going from 1.0.2 to 1.1 and had to install some community library from extras-devel`
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`14:28.04`	`madMeerkat_`	`JackBeSlow can you explain it more clearly what have you done to update it`
`14:28.06`	`madMeerkat_`	`?`
`14:29.14`	`JackBeSlow`	`Sure, hold on. Let me look up the article forum post that I went off of because I can barely remember.`
`14:30.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://www.rsa.com/node.aspx?id=3891`
`14:30.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`Security. It is hard!`
`14:31.05`	`JackBeSlow`	`I had: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67588 and http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Latest_Qt_and_Qt_mobility_evaluation_on_Maemo filed under "Fixing my QT Mobility issues (stupid dependencies)"`
`14:31.39`	`madMeerkat_`	`thanks a lot, Im going now, I'll read that later`
`14:31.48`	`madMeerkat_`	`thanks`
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`14:32.12`	`JackBeSlow`	`No problem.`
`14:32.30`	`JackBeSlow`	`(That's why I keep notes (-: )`
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`14:39.59`	`lardman`	`MohammadAG51: you were right, it appears and flashes inside the avatar`
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`14:40.24`	`lardman`	`hmm, I think my Tab Android browser might have been spoofed on the paypal site`
`14:40.26`	`lardman`	`crap`
`14:41.38`	`lardman`	`all the more reason to get Meego up and running asap`
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`14:53.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lardman: you found the small blue phones and [SIP]s and possibly Skype meanwhile?`
`14:53.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ooh`
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`14:54.04`	`lardman`	`docscrutinizer: I must have missed it before as it flashes quite slowly`
`14:54.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`did you notice they are also on call log?`
`14:54.30`	`lardman`	`yeah I saw that`
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`14:55.29`	`Venemo`	`good afternoon`
`14:55.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what's definitely missing is the NUMBER for multi-number contacts`
`14:56.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I'm pondering to to finally spread a dirty hotfix and pop up a hildonSystemNotifier for it`
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`14:56.53`	`MohammadAG51`	`lardman, flashes for ringing and incoming call, solid after answering`
`14:57.12`	`lardman`	`at which point it is stuck to my ear which isn't so useful :p`
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`14:58.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`just removed the ' of ARG="ISI_SMS_ENABLE_SYSLOG=1 " in defaults/csd-sms`
`14:58.46`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lardman: that applies as well for 12" flashing red alert`
`14:59.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-P`
`14:59.34`	`lardman`	`sure, but it would be better for the skype symbol to be larger imho while it's ringing, and it flashing isn't necessary`
`15:00.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`config file for CSD SAT plugin - - - WTF?!?!!`
`15:01.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`who's been asking for SIM Application Toolkit?`
`15:03.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`csd-call config file for CSD CALL plugin: #ARGS="autorej=1" - - -o.O :-o`
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`15:04.07`	`edheldil`	`DocScrutinizer: I was looking for SIM Toolkit`
`15:04.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ls -l /usr/lib/csd/plugins`
`15:06.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, no csd-sat file in there`
`15:06.46`	`DocScrutinizer`	`only in /etc/default/`
`15:06.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's odd`
`15:07.24`	`edheldil`	`sim & simppb, no sat`
`15:07.37`	`edheldil`	`simpb`
`15:08.06`	`*** part/#maemo aloniv (~alonivtsa@85.64.31.9.dynamic.barak-online.net)`
`15:08.25`	`edheldil`	`so quite possibly there exist SAT, which did not make it to distro, grr`
`15:09.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`indeed`
`15:09.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`probably buggy`
`15:10.35`	`MohammadAG51`	`I can't believe no one knows how it works`
`15:10.51`	`edheldil`	`still, somebody at Nokia has it and just has not get time to finish :(`
`15:10.53`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`what? SAT?`
`15:11.07`	`MohammadAG51`	`yes`
`15:11.24`	`MohammadAG51`	`an implementation of it shouldn't be that hard`
`15:11.56`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`MohammadAG51: we 'all' know how SAT's supposed to work, but how to integrate that to CSD.... :-/`
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`15:12.19`	`MohammadAG51`	`why not interface directly with the modem?`
`15:12.35`	`edheldil`	`what exactly is csd?`
`15:12.51`	`edheldil`	`~csd`
`15:12.56`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`meh, because we need to cooperate with ISI and CSD`
`15:13.17`	`edheldil`	`~isi`
`15:13.17`	`infobot`	`i guess isi is \"Ingénierie des Sytèmes Informatiques\"`
`15:13.44`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`intelligent systems interface`
`15:13.58`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`the modem lowlevel stuff`
`15:14.08`	`*** join/#maemo npm (~npm@cpe-76-90-30-220.socal.res.rr.com)`
`15:14.50`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`CSD is Nokia's blob dealing with ISI aiui`
`15:14.55`	`MohammadAG51`	`infobot, csd is Cellular Services Daemon`
`15:14.55`	`infobot`	`okay, MohammadAG51`
`15:16.42`	`crashanddie`	`infobot, isi is Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques`
`15:16.42`	`infobot`	`...but isi is already something else...`
`15:17.01`	`MohammadAG51`	`DocScrutinizer51, apt-cache show csd-sat`
`15:17.03`	`crashanddie`	`infobot, no isi is Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques`
`15:17.03`	`infobot`	`crashanddie: okay`
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`15:17.09`	`crashanddie`	`~isi`
`15:17.09`	`infobot`	`isi is probably Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques`
`15:17.14`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`LOL`
`15:17.31`	`crashanddie`	`~snack`
`15:17.32`	`infobot`	`ACTION snack? yes yeaaas yeaaaaaaaaaaas pleaaase :P`
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`15:21.44`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`what means "transitional package"?`
`15:22.05`	`crashanddie`	`DocScrutinizer, it's a proxy package`
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`15:22.42`	`crashanddie`	`DocScrutinizer, it's a package that has dependencies on other packages, and is uninstalled right after it's installed`
`15:22.46`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`GREAT`
`15:22.50`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`so mere BS`
`15:22.56`	`crashanddie`	`DocScrutinizer, why?`
`15:23.14`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`as it's basically empty?`
`15:23.22`	`crashanddie`	`yeah`
`15:24.24`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`leftovr from PR0.84`
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`15:26.55`	`chem\|st`	`DocScrutinizer51: transitional is build-essentials fyi`
`15:28.18`	`chem\|st`	`quiet useful for collections of things you might want to install singlehanded but for some cases retail`
`15:29.24`	`chem\|st`	`DocScrutinizer51: including stacks with "recommended" flags which do not get installed by the base`
`15:30.25`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`whatever all that means`
`15:33.10`	`chem\|st`	`DocScrutinizer51: you include packages not getting installed if not named, or a collection of packages the "maintainer" thinks are needed for something stacked`
`15:34.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`\o/ my load applet is gone, my applets are messed up, my profile switching is back to "normal" == useless. WTF?! Seems I should boot`
`15:34.29`	`chem\|st`	`o_O`
`15:34.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`chem\|st: nm, I'm not getting it today`
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`15:35.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`each of your explanations adds to the chinese in my head`
`15:35.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`fact is we got no CSD-SAT`
`15:35.55`	`Jaffa`	`Eh? A "transitional" package is when a previously populated package gets renamed and the old package becomes a meta-package for it.`
`15:35.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`except config file and apt-cache info`
`15:36.37`	`Jaffa`	`e.g. "exim" gets renamed to "exim4". "exim" Depends: exim4 and has no content o f it own`
`15:36.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`whatever, you're all free to apt-* * csd-sat`
`15:37.04`	`edheldil`	`anyway, the csd-sat package only replaces libsat and libsat0 packages, not providing any useful files, and some packages (mp-freemantle-generic-pr and cmt-firmware-rx51) depend on it`
`15:37.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`to learn what it is now, here`
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`15:39.05`	`edheldil`	`the question is, where is libsat?`
`15:40.04`	`MohammadAG51`	`Nokia HQ`
`15:40.38`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: that is one case`
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`15:44.42`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: I've never heard metapackages referred to as "transitional" before.`
`15:47.33`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: most metapackages are transitional^^`
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`15:50.04`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: What is it that makes build-essential transitional, but ubuntu-desktop not?`
`15:51.35`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: ubuntu-desktop is transitional...`
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`15:53.04`	`chem\|st`	`by definition metapackages are transitional but transitional doesn't mean meta by default`
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`15:54.21`	`chem\|st`	`a transitional package used as single pointer like for exim -> exim"current" is not meta, is it?`
`15:54.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`DocScrutinizer, not that I can recall. Must be incidental.`
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`15:55.48`	`chem\|st`	`GeneralAntilles: s/o may looked for a good meta name and picked the wrong one or it came from csd-sat and was cut out with those now depending`
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`15:56.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Huh?`
`15:56.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`chem\|st, I'm farther up in scrollback. ;)`
`15:56.46`	`chem\|st`	`GeneralAntilles: ah sry`
`15:57.11`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: Can you point to this "definition" by which things are "by definition" then? I thought "metapackage" was a technique/pattern and "transitional" was a usage of that pattern for a particular purpose.`
`15:57.28`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: Your "by definition" is circular, so now its Citation Needed ;-)`
`15:57.51`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: you might lookup the meaning of the word "transitional" yourself`
`15:58.27`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: In what?`
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`15:58.49`	`lcuk`	`jaffa`
`15:58.50`	`lcuk`	`An example of transitional packages in Debian`
`15:58.50`	`lcuk`	`When you have to change the name of your package (e.g. for complying with policies) or you make a new package that is meant to replace the old one (e.g. gcc4.2 -> gcc4.3), youll have to deal with the fact that the other packages that use your old package as a dependency will not be immediately updated, or maybe never will. So, to overcome this issue, there is a useful trick: transitional packages.`
`15:58.58`	`lcuk`	`http://baraujo.net/blog/?p=17`
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`15:59.26`	`Jaffa`	`http://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package`
`15:59.35`	`Jaffa`	`^...and also`
`15:59.52`	`Jaffa`	`lcuk: Yes - that's my definition of a transitional package.`
`16:00.08`	`chem\|st`	`yea and metapackages are used just for the case... so what is your actual question?`
`16:00.32`	`Jaffa`	`lcuk: Given there was never a package which provided the entirety of build-essential or ubuntu-desktop, it is not to continue to provide an upgrade path after a package has been renamed.`
`16:01.06`	`lcuk`	`Jaffa, build-essential is in the sdk repository`
`16:01.12`	`lcuk`	`and not in -extras or -devel`
`16:01.26`	`lcuk`	`which repo are you looking and where is depending upon build-essential?`
`16:01.30`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: The word "transitional" implies that the original is no longer needed to continue with its primary purpose.`
`16:01.49`	`Jaffa`	`lcuk: This is a packaging discussion, not a Maemo repositories discussion`
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`16:02.15`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: or in other words bridge a path that is changing from time to time or newly...`
`16:02.24`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: However, the "original" build-essential and ubuntu-desktop continue to provide usage even after their dependencies are provided, in terms of the bundle aspect you described earlier.`
`16:02.36`	`lcuk`	`Jaffa, but your assertion that build-esential does not exist is incorrect`
`16:02.37`	`lcuk`	`http://maemo.org/packages/view/build-essential/`
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`16:02.52`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: and transitional does not imply that it was a real package before`
`16:02.58`	`Jaffa`	`chem\|st: No, in English, "transitional" would never be used for a continuing process; nor is there any evidence on Google that anyone else refers to build-essential or ubuntu-desktop as a "transitional" descktop`
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`16:03.22`	`Jaffa`	`lcuk: FFS, I've not asserted that. When did I assert that? I said it was a metapackage not a transitional package.`
`16:03.34`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: my "transition" quote was from ubuntu.org...`
`16:03.42`	`Jaffa`	`My argument is that all transitional packages are metapackages; chem\|st argues that all metapackages are transitional.`
`16:03.44`	`chem\|st`	`.com ssry`
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`16:04.01`	`Jaffa`	`But, it's so fucking semantic, I don't give a toss.`
`16:04.38`	`chem\|st`	`Jaffa: yeah`
`16:05.04`	`Jaffa`	`But, finally: "Transitional packages are essentially proxies â packages that pull the correct dependencies when installed and can be removed without problems as soon as the installation finishes". If you apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop, you get a loss of functionality around upgrades that you would not get from apt-get remove exim (if it transitioned to exim4)`
`16:05.26`	`Jaffa`	`That's from the top result for "debian transitional package" - at the URL lcuk gave earlier.`
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`16:07.58`	`chem\|st`	`why would upgrades brake? either ubuntu-desktop gets pulled in again or the then installed packages get upgraded`
`16:09.16`	`chem\|st`	`and you wont get exim5 without "exim" but upgrades of exim4...?!`
`16:10.00`	`pir`	`Hello, can I backup the played-stats from the default media player? (I am flashing my n900) :)`
`16:10.00`	`*** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-41-234.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)`
`16:10.20`	`pir`	`[Does tracker store the played-stats?]`
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`16:16.11`	`GAN900`	`sighs at political sex scandal tomfoolery.`
`16:16.29`	`GAN900`	`US National Media: We focus on the important issues.`
`16:18.05`	`*** part/#maemo pir (~bla@53508A5B.cm-6-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)`
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`16:22.37`	`chem\|st`	`pir: would think tracker file-meta has that maybe`
`16:23.16`	`RST38h`	`GAN: Sex scandals are positive news`
`16:23.40`	`GAN900`	`Illegal wars are more relevant.`
`16:23.44`	`RST38h`	`GAN: National debt, jobs outlook, and three wars are negative news. Guess which ones get picked up by journos`
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`16:26.24`	`RST38h`	`Nokia downgraded from BBB+ to BBB-`
`16:26.46`	`GAN900`	`Little late`
`16:27.28`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)`
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`16:29.48`	`javispedro`	`moo.`
`16:29.55`	`RST38h`	`moo indeed`
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`16:30.51`	`derf`	`GAN900: Credit downgrades are always late.`
`16:31.59`	`ioan`	`is there any way to reinstall kernel-power?`
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`16:33.45`	`RST38h`	`"Would you buy Nokia stock for 4.71? -- I still wouldn't go anywhere near it!" - CNBC financial analyst =)`
`16:33.54`	`javispedro`	`is writing a statement of purpose...`
`16:34.43`	`javispedro`	`I bet noone's going to like "Because everyone else is doing it".`
`16:34.57`	`RST38h`	`Ah, but it is all about how you word it!`
`16:35.31`	`RST38h`	`Try "Because this is a popular topic, the effective solutions to which are in high demand"`
`16:36.28`	`javispedro`	`-- you really need years of experience for that =)`
`16:36.43`	`RST38h`	`Well... :)`
`16:37.28`	`Arkenoi`	`i still get "application memory full" or smth when trying to update with AM, is it CSSU to blame? apt-get upgrade works just fine.`
`16:37.50`	`RST38h`	`Arkenoi: what does df say?`
`16:37.59`	`Arkenoi`	`plenty of space everywhere`
`16:38.07`	`RST38h`	`Hm`
`16:38.35`	`RST38h`	`HAM has a menu option toshow the log`
`16:38.42`	`RST38h`	`See if there are any peculiar messages`
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`16:38.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`derf, true.`
`16:39.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Even if they do manage to come out with something useful`
`16:39.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Perception is everything in stocks.`
`16:39.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and if you aint Apple or Google. . . .`
`16:39.29`	`javispedro`	`~have you bought MS stock lately?~`
`16:40.02`	`RST38h`	`They won't =(`
`16:40.09`	`*** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@nat/ti/x-xgniqtmyngubssei)`
`16:40.41`	`RST38h`	`Even if they succeed with WP7, the math is badly against them (look at the percentage of the smartphone market vs total cell phones, and also at Nokia's profit margins)`
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`16:41.11`	`javispedro`	`Also interesting is that like Nokia they are alinating their own dev base`
`16:41.14`	`RST38h`	`They would probably have a chance with a timely and gradual Simics->Maemo transition`
`16:41.24`	`javispedro`	`have you seen MSDN since the announcement of win8 html5 apps?`
`16:41.34`	`RST38h`	`Yeah, butt hurt galore...`
`16:41.44`	`javispedro`	`plenty of heart-broken silverlight diehard fans.`
`16:43.14`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`\o/`
`16:44.04`	`javispedro`	`wait a moment. Simics->Maemo transition? =)`
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`16:48.18`	`RST38h`	`javispedro: if they slowly transitioned their symbian userbase to maemo, it might have worked`
`16:48.25`	`*** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)`
`16:48.46`	`RST38h`	`right now though, they simply told everyone to leave, the show is closing.`
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`16:50.30`	`javispedro`	`heh -- "Open Plea by Silverlight Devs for Full Windows 8 SUpport in Addition to HTML5"`
`16:51.02`	`RST38h`	`so,no native, no C#, just html5?`
`16:51.16`	`javispedro`	`it's funny that Nokia moved from Qt as primary platform to an ... obsoloted one.`
`16:51.30`	`Arkenoi`	`RST38h, have to wait for the next update now..`
`16:51.42`	`RST38h`	`hm`
`16:51.58`	`RST38h`	`no, you do not have to wait, the log stays there unless you cleared it`
`16:52.25`	`Arkenoi`	`nope, it is empty`
`16:53.07`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: that's what is known from the MS press release. HTML5 only for the new w8 tablet UI, all other apps are run in the traditional UI.`
`16:53.36`	`javispedro`	`Sadly, I bet they will relent and allow tablet Silverlight apps. Otherwise I'd be stocking popcorn.`
`16:53.57`	`RST38h`	`javispedro: this probably means that the tablet UI will simplybe an application (like Media Center) running on top of the normalOS`
`16:54.00`	`RST38h`	`and desktop too`
`16:54.42`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: and it is probably implemented that way. the difference is that w8 will run it by default at startup.`
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`16:55.17`	`RST38h`	`javis: if you can run normal apps from this contraption, you will be ok`
`16:55.31`	`RST38h`	`so, my guess is that HTML5 is only used for applets within this UI`
`16:56.17`	`javispedro`	`that is what happens`
`16:56.41`	`javispedro`	`but the media center UI will be advertised as "the next UI".`
`16:57.11`	`javispedro`	`e.g. http://www.buildwindows.com/`
`17:00.44`	`RST38h`	`javis: does not make it the next ui for real`
`17:02.35`	`javispedro`	`dunno, ms tends to make weird decisions from time to time`
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`17:28.02`	`GAN900`	`Wii U is one dumb name.`
`17:28.02`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman)`
`17:28.15`	`GAN900`	`Wii U is one dumb name.`
`17:29.10`	`RST38h`	`Name for an instant messaging generation`
`17:29.14`	`*** join/#maemo madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu)`
`17:29.35`	`GAN900`	`Not shortenable.`
`17:29.56`	`GAN900`	`Wii 2 would've been easier.`
`17:30.44`	`MohammadAG51`	`WU :p`
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`17:31.52`	`MohammadAG51`	`don't companies usually announce something before the FCC confidentiality date passes?`
`17:33.17`	`javispedro`	`ah, thanks for the reminder GAN900`
`17:33.21`	`javispedro`	`so, let's see what they have in store.`
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`17:33.43`	`javispedro`	`W. T. F.`
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`17:35.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`GAN900: Surely Wii 2 would be the Wii Wii?`
`17:35.20`	`RST38h`	`Mohammad: Normal companies do`
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`17:36.58`	`ShadowJK`	`i guess html5 will make sure nobody ever writes anything overly innovative :-)`
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`17:38.39`	`FIQ`	`(19:28:37) (GAN900) Not shortenable.`
`17:38.44`	`FIQ`	`w2u :D`
`17:38.57`	`ShadowJK`	`wees at u`
`17:39.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`wonders how many power stations will be needed for the Wii U`
`17:39.43`	`FIQ`	`twenty-four`
`17:40.44`	`javispedro`	`wonders about how it works`
`17:40.58`	`javispedro`	`I bet its not streaming video`
`17:43.03`	`lardman`	`argh, bloody Linux and card readers`
`17:43.03`	`_trine`	`Nokia Bonds have just been downgraded to junk status according to the BBC`
`17:44.20`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
`17:44.28`	`lardman`	`hmm, I like the way BBB- means just above junk`
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`17:44.49`	`lardman`	`like the way we assign A levels over here now, anything below an A means a fail ;)`
`17:45.13`	`_trine`	`http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10308395`
`17:45.33`	`_trine`	`opps wrong headline`
`17:45.47`	`_trine`	`http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13682580`
`17:49.47`	`*** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@g230049044.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`17:51.12`	`lardman`	`this is sooo annoying, whenever i want to format an SD card I have to boot windows as Linux doesn't recognise the partition`
`17:51.57`	`RST38h`	`formatted SD cards in Linux, no problem`
`17:52.16`	`lardman`	`probably my usb card reader`
`17:52.20`	`RST38h`	`Aside from damn Ubuntu hanging hard every now and then, when it can't read some slightly faulty card`
`17:52.45`	`lardman`	`so much faffing about before I can get working on the Tab kernel again, grrrr`
`17:53.26`	`Choom`	`in a world where several companies provide non-commecrial VM software licenses for free and the average desktop is a dual core I see absolutely no reason to not use windows as a host OS and run linux VMs`
`17:53.29`	`RST38h`	`lardman: You are sitll better off than me`
`17:53.31`	`lardman`	`goes to find a laptop to save needing to reboot`
`17:53.41`	`RST38h`	`could not get to work on the stuff he likes for the last 6 months`
`17:53.43`	`lardman`	`RST38h: why's that?`
`17:53.49`	`lardman`	`ah`
`17:54.54`	`lardman`	`I do know that feeling though, far too busy and then knackered when I get home`
`17:55.02`	`*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG)`
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`18:06.13`	`b0unc3`	`hello`
`18:06.51`	`b0unc3`	`I'm trying to release a new app, but I get this warning: "Warning: Promotion of experimental Qtm based applications (libqtm11 or libqtm-extras) is blocked due to conflicts with stable versions."`
`18:06.58`	`b0unc3`	`which are the stable versions ?`
`18:09.38`	`*** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.74.85.229)`
`18:11.27`	`javispedro`	`want to bet on the specs of the wiiu controller? maybe it can run meego!! ;P`
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`18:15.37`	`lardman`	`b0unc3: libqtm10 ?`
`18:15.54`	`lardman`	`see what's in the Extras repo`
`18:17.14`	`RST38h`	`b0unc3: it is what it says`
`18:17.24`	`*** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@93.159.92.17)`
`18:18.29`	`b0unc3`	`so libqtm-11 is the stable version ?`
`18:19.01`	`javispedro`	`libqtm10`
`18:19.07`	`javispedro`	`probabl`
`18:19.24`	`b0unc3`	`javispedro: I can't found libqtm10`
`18:19.29`	`b0unc3`	`find*`
`18:19.47`	`javispedro`	`"libqtm" without suffix exists`
`18:20.21`	`b0unc3`	`W: Unable to locate package libqtm , are you sure ?`
`18:21.38`	`b0unc3`	`btw my app depends (as far as I can tell) from libqtm-11-declarative and libqtm-11-sensors`
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`18:25.19`	`MohammadAG`	`iOS 5 is such a rip off`
`18:26.06`	`Choom`	`s/iOS 5/Apple/`
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`18:32.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`qtm and stable? MUHAHA`
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`18:36.27`	`javispedro`	`MohammadAG: it is just a bugfix release.`
`18:36.46`	`javispedro`	`marketed as the best thing ever, but that's as usual.`
`18:38.02`	`MohammadAG`	`javispedro, If I were google I'd sue them`
`18:38.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`FIQ, not bad. But that's three syllables.`
`18:38.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro: what an idea!`
`18:39.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Actually, NGP would be pretty cool with MeeGo, too.`
`18:40.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That controller is going to be so expensive.`
`18:40.10`	`javispedro`	`depends on the specs`
`18:40.20`	`javispedro`	`You could easily get it down to $100`
`18:40.33`	`javispedro`	`or even $80 and still be pretty decent`
`18:41.34`	`javispedro`	`or maybe they'll sell the controllers for a loss =)`
`18:41.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`The way the DS prints money they certainly could.`
`18:41.56`	`*** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@93.159.92.17)`
`18:42.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I'm excited. Only thing that bothers me about the Wii is the lack of HD.`
`18:42.16`	`javispedro`	`ending with a real orchestra playing zelda tunes is just why over the top`
`18:42.20`	`javispedro`	`s/why/way`
`18:42.46`	`javispedro`	`(but I must admit I like it...)`
`18:42.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_%26_Zelda_Big_Band_Live`
`18:43.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`GeneralAntilles: Of course - the big question.`
`18:43.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`Can the controller run meego?`
`18:44.08`	`javispedro`	`it resembles a tablet more than a game controller`
`18:44.16`	`javispedro`	`which is, I bet, on par with the times.`
`18:44.40`	`*** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@cpc2-oldh7-0-0-cust702.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com)`
`18:45.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Crazy, crazy times.`
`18:45.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`can't imagine would his 10-year-old self would've thought.`
`18:45.43`	`javispedro`	`"where is my flying car?" "why I can't be captain of the Enterprise?"`
`18:46.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I still think a Star Trek simulator is something that needs to happen.`
`18:46.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`MMORPG-style.`
`18:46.17`	`javispedro`	`oh, the orchestra part is the _beginning_`
`18:46.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"Sit at your console and take comm messages."`
`18:46.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`GeneralAntilles: 'Oooh! I can download porn on this thing'`
`18:46.48`	`javispedro`	`GeneralAntilles: well, you now have the PADD thing`
`18:47.11`	`javispedro`	`woooo wiiu controller!! http://www.instructables.com/id/PADD-from-star-trek-voyager/`
`18:47.25`	`*** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@93.159.92.17)`
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`18:47.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I like how they treated them like individual documents in Voyager.`
`18:47.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`GeneralAntilles: Imagination fail.`
`18:47.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"Why wouldn't you just have one device that has all of the information? . . ."`
`18:47.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`GeneralAntilles: Well...`
`18:48.04`	`javispedro`	`ah, a paradox.`
`18:48.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`GeneralAntilles: To be fair - if the deveices can be replicated`
`18:48.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`GeneralAntilles: They may be 'free'`
`18:48.30`	`SpeedEvil`	`GeneralAntilles: So it may just be that a 'natural wm' may be preferred.`
`18:48.35`	`javispedro`	`the most advanced of technologies -- and the easiest way of "hey, look at the document I have here" is still physically sharing the device.`
`18:49.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`Also, you missed the obvious one.`
`18:49.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, the replicator costs deuturium, right?`
`18:49.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's DRM.`
`18:49.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hehe`
`18:49.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`You can't copy the document .`
`18:49.40`	`javispedro`	`Yes, actually, it was the RIAA who fleet the Enterprise -- not star fleet.`
`18:49.51`	`javispedro`	`"to search for copyright violations on the confines of unknown space!!"`
`18:50.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Â© Ensign Slessinger`
`18:51.32`	`javispedro`	`nintendo, gimme specs`
`18:52.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Wonder if its PPC again.`
`18:52.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`What powers Watson?`
`18:52.50`	`javispedro`	`IBM, so "yes".`
`18:53.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'm curious as to the power use.`
`18:53.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`POWER7`
`18:53.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`It used to be that the Wii used 1/10th the power of the competing platforms.`
`18:53.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Probably not high.`
`18:53.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Not much room for cooling it looks like.`
`18:53.51`	`javispedro`	`SpeedEvil: Yeah, I bet power usage will be the same. Because we are not going to be surprised on specs.`
`18:54.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Little irrelevant anyway.`
`18:54.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`is on a power saving kick ATM.`
`18:54.24`	`ruskie`	`I take it the discussion is about a Wii 2?`
`18:54.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Wii U!`
`18:54.40`	`javispedro`	`Wii Fsck U!`
`18:54.52`	`javispedro`	`opens the door to more lame jokes`
`18:55.11`	`*** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@91-115-96-169.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`18:55.13`	`ruskie`	`I wonder if it'll be actually HD...`
`18:55.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro, you suck for not coming to the last MeeGo Conference ever.`
`18:55.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ruskie, 1080p`
`18:55.56`	`javispedro`	`GeneralAntilles: you suck for _coming_ to the last!`
`18:56.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`True`
`18:56.08`	`javispedro`	`;P`
`18:56.52`	`ruskie`	`hmm omg... someone was busy on the wikipedia page`
`18:57.01`	`*** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@dsl-240-236-156.telkomadsl.co.za)`
`18:57.07`	`vi__`	`hello`
`18:57.09`	`javispedro`	`the nintendo e3 site is a horribly mess, I click on "WiiU" and get "Mario Kart ... for 3DS".`
`18:57.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You can't have a Wii U.`
`18:57.40`	`vi__`	`who here has experiance of connecting a gamepad to drnoksnes?`
`18:57.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It knows this, you know this, so here's a 3DS thing instead.`
`18:58.26`	`javispedro`	`it would be best if it were to just advertise me some wiizelda, which I'd buy...`
`18:58.27`	`vi__`	`gamepad works (i can cat /devi/input/js0) but i dont know how to get drnoksnes too 'see' it.`
`18:58.27`	`*** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk)`
`18:58.30`	`javispedro`	`vi__: which kind of gamepad?`
`18:59.10`	`javispedro`	`vi__: ah. I do think I ever finished joystick support :(`
`18:59.16`	`vi__`	`javispedro: it is just a standard 8 button controller that appears on /dev/input/js0`
`18:59.19`	`vi__`	`gamepad works (i can cat /devi/input/js0) but i dont know how to get drnoksnes too 'see' it.`
`18:59.39`	`vi__`	`javispedro: say what??`
`19:00.04`	`vi__`	`javispedro: but it is based on snes9x right?`
`19:00.22`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
`19:00.39`	`javispedro`	`it is actually a horrible merge of several code bases..`
`19:00.57`	`vi__`	`2 gamepads+tv out+hen==total bro mode pocket console.`
`19:01.03`	*** join/#maemo skler` (~skler@94.160.196.68)
`19:01.06`	`vi__`	`javispedro: ok`
`19:01.21`	`javispedro`	`try to get an app that maps joy buttons to x key presses, should exist.`
`19:01.32`	`javispedro`	`or implement joypad buttons on drnok yourself, should be trivial.`
`19:01.38`	`vi__`	`javispedro: good thinking`
`19:02.04`	`vi__`	`javispedro: any suggestions of programs to start looking at?`
`19:02.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Teehee: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/media/2011/06/mounted.jpg`
`19:02.34`	`javispedro`	`vi__: wiimote stuff`
`19:02.55`	`vi__`	`javispedro: thankyou`
`19:03.00`	`RST38h`	`General: Let me guess, he is using it for his pet gerbil?`
`19:03.01`	`javispedro`	`GeneralAntilles: bah, was expecting a wiiu controller joke!`
`19:03.19`	`vi__`	`javispedro: did you also create ines?`
`19:03.24`	`FIQ`	`I see that you're all talking about E3/ninty/whatever`
`19:04.02`	`javispedro`	`Do you need some help with that?`
`19:04.07`	`javispedro`	`</clippy mode>`
`19:04.11`	`javispedro`	`vi__: nope`
`19:04.43`	`GeneralAntilles`	`vi__, that's somebody else chatting right now. :P`
`19:04.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`#maemo - it's where the pros go`
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`19:05.53`	`*** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.74.85.229)`
`19:06.00`	`MohammadAG`	`wonders what to call the DBus path for sociality`
`19:06.39`	`vi__`	`d`
`19:07.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nook Color is marginally less useless withe Phiremod.`
`19:07.31`	`*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@cpe-24-162-122-138.hot.res.rr.com)`
`19:08.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Harmattan better still have "tap outside to close dialog".`
`19:08.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Because I can't stop trying to do that on every other platform.`
`19:08.35`	`javispedro`	`do not worry, ios 17 will have that too.`
`19:09.00`	`javispedro`	`realizes the wiiu controller ALSO HAS THE WRIST STRAP`
`19:09.06`	`ruskie`	`hahaha`
`19:09.13`	`ruskie`	`so as not to break the screen I guess`
`19:09.23`	`javispedro`	`oh, good point.`
`19:09.25`	`javispedro`	`the irony....`
`19:09.51`	`javispedro`	`wii controller breaks screens, wiiu has breakable screen...`
`19:10.02`	`*** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@dsl-240-236-156.telkomadsl.co.za)`
`19:10.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hehe`
`19:10.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`taps furiously outside a dialog on Android.`
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`19:11.02`	`vi__`	`javispedro: thankyou for your help.`
`19:11.36`	`javispedro`	`grabs some popcorn and heads straight to a wii fans forum`
`19:11.40`	`javispedro`	`vi__: np`
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`19:17.21`	`lardman`	`curses the lack of root on Android`
`19:17.25`	`*** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@dsl-240-236-156.telkomadsl.co.za)`
`19:17.35`	`hiemanshu`	`curses android`
`19:18.23`	`*** join/#maemo githogori_ (~githogori@216.207.36.222)`
`19:18.47`	`*** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@216.207.36.222)`
`19:19.14`	`javispedro`	`ooooh, the wiiu controller is RESISTIVE`
`19:19.18`	`javispedro`	`is sold`
`19:19.38`	`javispedro`	`where does this miyamoto guy want me to deposit my money?`
`19:20.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Somewhere in the future.`
`19:20.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Isn't it terrible?`
`19:20.45`	`RST38h`	`Something is telling mee that this Wii U controller is just another GBA`
`19:20.47`	`RST38h`	`Or NDS`
`19:20.57`	`RST38h`	`On the inside, I mean`
`19:20.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`hopes the Nokia announcement on the 21st will be "shipping today".`
`19:21.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"Oh, and some cheap/free ones for people we like."`
`19:21.09`	`javispedro`	`(even though I have to ponder who is the genius selling a 6 inch SINGLE touch gaming device...)`
`19:21.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`RST38h, seems probable.`
`19:21.42`	`RST38h`	`"There's no such thing as a perfectly secure operating system, but security experts agree somewhat grudgingly in some cases that iOS, Apple's mobile operating system, is the most secure commercial OS today, mobile or desktop."`
`19:21.56`	`RST38h`	`== Slashdot`
`19:21.58`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: meanwhile, iOS5 cracked minutes after release.`
`19:22.16`	`javispedro`	`slashdot runs that??`
`19:22.20`	`javispedro`	`pfft.`
`19:22.26`	`RST38h`	`javispedro: Never let reality spoil the grandieur of your theories!`
`19:22.33`	`javispedro`	`I bet the editor was high. On trolling.`
`19:22.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:24.00`	`RST38h`	`thanks Nintendo for putting a plain little red LED into WiiU`
`19:24.10`	`javispedro`	`"the Wii U2 -- it comes with aBono"`
`19:24.17`	`javispedro`	`s/a//`
`19:24.30`	`lardman`	`argh, bloody Android, bloody SD card formatting`
`19:24.33`	`RST38h`	`Those stupid super bright blue LEDs everybody uses now makes me want to kill people.`
`19:25.09`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: where are you seeing the little red? I still see a ultra bright blue dot on the official art`
`19:25.24`	`javispedro`	`even on the controller`
`19:25.37`	`RST38h`	`javispedro: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/nintendo-wii-u-console-eyes-on/`
`19:25.52`	`javispedro`	`that is a button`
`19:26.30`	`javispedro`	`a button that btw on the wii1 is hidden behind the flip-door. so I suspect the externals are provisional.`
`19:26.53`	`javispedro`	`unless they now use compact flash cards or the like which could explain an enlarged memory card slot..`
`19:26.57`	`Macer`	`word`
`19:27.02`	`RST38h`	`Oh no`
`19:27.14`	`RST38h`	`Blue LEDs. MUST... KILL... PEOPLE.... BRAINZZZZZ!!!`
`19:27.38`	`Macer`	`uhm`
`19:27.41`	`RST38h`	`javispedro: Maybe the slot accepts NES carts? =)`
`19:27.58`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: I have a BenQ TFT that has one such Ã¼ber bright 2cm blue led right at the bottom bezel part.`
`19:28.14`	`Macer`	`wii u?`
`19:28.14`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: no way how you look at the screen the blue light always hits your eye.`
`19:28.27`	`RST38h`	`javis: Similar here, the BBK DVD recorder comes with a blue led bright enough to read at night`
`19:28.29`	`Macer`	`is that the name of nintendo's new one?`
`19:28.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`RST38h: seriously. What is with the Koreans and those blue LEDs?`
`19:28.51`	`RST38h`	`javis: fortunately, the damn thing died a couple of months ago, and the LG recorder uses red`
`19:29.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro: I covered the blue LEDs on my LCDs with cheese wax.`
`19:29.16`	`javispedro`	`I use tape`
`19:29.23`	`RST38h`	`General: They came into fashion at the same time with the semi-transparent bluish casings, rtight after Steve Jobs came up with a blue iMac`
`19:29.24`	`javispedro`	`std adhesive tape =)`
`19:30.00`	`RST38h`	`General: The price point for blue leds went down around then, and the asians starts putting them in, as a sign of high quality`
`19:30.53`	`Macer`	`what's wrong with blue leds?`
`19:31.10`	`RST38h`	`Macer: too bright, too non-standard UI-wise`
`19:31.27`	`Macer`	`non standard ui wise? :)`
`19:31.35`	`javispedro`	`Macer: this: http://blackwallpaperz.com/LilBlack/Centered-Blue-Explosion-Black-Wallpaper-1.jpg`
`19:31.36`	`Macer`	`there are standard leds?`
`19:31.41`	`RST38h`	`Macer: standard UI coding is green (normal), yellow (attention), red (fuckedup)`
`19:31.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro: I was eating one of those mini gouda wheels when I finally snapped. g`
`19:32.05`	`Macer`	`but no drives have that type of led control`
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`19:32.13`	`Macer`	`well. some probably do`
`19:32.22`	`RST38h`	`Macer: it is just general rules`
`19:32.33`	`Macer`	`who made the standard!`
`19:32.35`	`Macer`	`?`
`19:32.40`	`Macer`	`iso?`
`19:32.40`	`RST38h`	`Macer: when you do air traffic control sw, for example, this is the first rule your client explains to you`
`19:32.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Who the hell is noaheverett and when the hell did I start following him on Twitter. . . .`
`19:33.12`	`RST38h`	`Macer: 3 colors. The rest of the UI needs to be done in something that does not bleed user's eyes out`
`19:33.23`	`RST38h`	`Macer: And bright blue isn't it.`
`19:33.24`	`Macer`	`GeneralAntilles: about right after you broke up with your ex and she started following gay men on your acct on twitter`
`19:33.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Macer: shit!`
`19:33.59`	`Macer`	`:) first rule of breaking up... lock your computers and phones`
`19:34.10`	`Macer`	`and change all the passwords she knows about`
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`19:34.19`	`javispedro`	`of course, the older controller being called the wiimote, this one should be called the wiipad.`
`19:34.20`	`Macer`	`cmon man... women are horrible.`
`19:34.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Macer, that doesn't sound cynical at all.`
`19:35.10`	`MohammadAG`	`how do I terminate a zombie process?`
`19:35.18`	`RST38h`	`same way as a relationship`
`19:35.30`	`RST38h`	`you REBOOT.`
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`19:36.01`	`javispedro`	`MohammadAG: that, you will learn in university.`
`19:36.24`	`yigal`	`kill`
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`19:36.28`	`MohammadAG`	`the zombie process or the relationship part?`
`19:36.35`	`RST38h`	`kill will not do anything to a zombie process`
`19:36.37`	`RST38h`	`reboot`
`19:36.50`	`yigal`	`oh, that's too bad`
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`22:18.37`	`*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council \| Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources \| Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED, and keep clear of that shit! (we're fed up with 3 user requests / day)`
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