| 00:00.02 | Gyjf | also, if you use aircrack much i would suggest uing wifite.py for automation |
| 00:00.09 | Gyjf | works greeat |
| 00:00.13 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, "hiller" suggests he wanted self-stabilization... |
| 00:00.13 | Gyjf | *great |
| 00:00.39 | ShadowJK | stabilization as in attitude stabilization, not "horizontal translation stabilization" :) |
| 00:00.42 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy aircrack-ng |
| 00:00.43 | DocScrutinizer | aircrack-ng: |
| 00:00.45 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:00.46 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:01.05 | Gyjf | and the "reboot" command isnt working... it just powers it off |
| 00:01.51 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@cpc2-oldh7-0-0-cust702.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 00:02.04 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 00:04.16 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (guy@109.226.14.49) |
| 00:04.33 | DocScrutinizer | Gyjf: |
| 00:04.34 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# dpkg -L aircrack-ng|pastebinit - |
| 00:04.36 | DocScrutinizer | http://pastebin.com/5PKGrE3T |
| 00:04.39 | ShadowJK | reboot/shutdown/half is best issued through dsme |
| 00:04.44 | ShadowJK | halt* |
| 00:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | initctl |
| 00:05.27 | Gyjf | im uninstalling it now |
| 00:05.42 | DocScrutinizer | I'm tempted to try a `start reboot` |
| 00:05.58 | ShadowJK | heh :) |
| 00:06.21 | ShadowJK | should get his second N900 into use to try crazy crap people do |
| 00:06.24 | Gyjf | windows style? |
| 00:06.44 | ShadowJK | It has the Nokia Care screen protector, I need to get a proper one :) |
| 00:06.52 | DocScrutinizer | initctl list|grep boot |
| 00:07.53 | Gyjf | reinstalling 1.1 |
| 00:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | initctl list|grep shut |
| 00:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | muses over `initctl events` |
| 00:11.50 | cehteh | mhm .. my selfbuild case finally got a crack .. now i ordered a otterbox |
| 00:12.40 | cehteh | i guess thats among the best protection one can get |
| 00:12.56 | lolcat | cehteh: You bult a case for the N900? |
| 00:12.58 | cehteh | except maybe the metal case dangergrrl showed some days ago |
| 00:13.09 | DocScrutinizer | metal case???? |
| 00:13.30 | lolcat | cehteh: THat was an awesome case, if I had a N900 Id get one |
| 00:13.34 | cehteh | lolcat: yes vacuum molded ABS and neoprene |
| 00:13.47 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: I could check my logs, but you are just obliviant towards me |
| 00:13.54 | cehteh | survied quite well :) |
| 00:14.08 | DocScrutinizer | with a battery of RG55 for connecting external antennae? |
| 00:15.11 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: wut? |
| 00:15.34 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Oblivious? |
| 00:16.49 | DocScrutinizer | considers to put lolcat on the /ignore list again, for the single purpose not to have to deal with this guy's riddles |
| 00:17.09 | Gyjf | so, the programs seem to be in place at /usr/local/bin |
| 00:17.18 | Gyjf | but not the lns |
| 00:17.19 | lolcat | Oh, I am not ignored anymore? |
| 00:17.20 | cehteh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tRBEKAEWBI |
| 00:17.30 | *** join/#maemo user (~user@gr.189.154.250.dial.global.net.uk) |
| 00:18.18 | cehteh | http://www.pdair.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10100000_1900000_11000787&products_id=27477 |
| 00:18.36 | Gyjf | so do i have to symlink all of the programs manually? |
| 00:18.47 | cehteh | mhm i wonder how well gps and cell radio work in a metal case :P |
| 00:19.02 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: additional metal case for RF equipment usually isn't playing nice with the purpose of actually using the device |
| 00:19.18 | cehteh | hehe |
| 00:20.52 | DocScrutinizer | Gyjf: ln? to /usr/local? why not fix your root's $PATH? |
| 00:20.54 | cehteh | i think the otterbox is really good, never heared bad about their equipment |
| 00:21.38 | cehteh | and 17Eur or so makes it affordable too |
| 00:21.38 | Gyjf | how do i do that? |
| 00:23.03 | DocScrutinizer | still wondering what that "I could check my logs, but you are just obliviant towards me" meant. Darn this is annoying |
| 00:23.51 | DocScrutinizer | tries to `killall lolcat` on his wetware processor |
| 00:24.02 | ShadowJK | It means "I could check my logs, but you dont give a fuck about what happens to me" |
| 00:24.28 | ShadowJK | Meaning. "I could check my logs, but you just told me to check my logs to get rid of me" |
| 00:24.31 | DocScrutinizer | not an angstrom better |
| 00:25.08 | ShadowJK | meaning. "People X tell me to do Y people Z tell my to talk to X" |
| 00:25.25 | DocScrutinizer | I didn't tell *anything* to lolcat |
| 00:25.56 | DocScrutinizer | so why t f I got this load on my brain processing time now? |
| 00:27.54 | *** join/#maemo ketas (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee) |
| 00:29.10 | ShadowJK | lol dunno |
| 00:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | or did I tell you anything I forgot about, lolcat ? |
| 00:29.56 | DocScrutinizer | if that's the case then your comment wasn't really helping and you should've known it isn't |
| 00:32.17 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I'd imagine it must use cyclics. For the simple reason that the rotors have way too much inertia to differentially throttle - that works on quadrotors. With fullsize props, you'd get torque effects. |
| 00:32.39 | ShadowJK | Yeah.. |
| 00:34.32 | DocScrutinizer | Gyjf: how to fix $PATH? simply edit your ~/.profile |
| 00:34.56 | DocScrutinizer | or .bashrc, whatever you prefer |
| 00:35.19 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:35.47 | DocScrutinizer | PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 |
| 00:35.49 | DocScrutinizer | export PATH |
| 00:36.53 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 00:37.54 | DocScrutinizer | take care, usually you don't want . (cwd) in your root's $PATH |
| 00:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | also NB this takes efect when using "root", but NOT when using "sudo gainroot" |
| 00:42.36 | merlin1991 | I still don't know what's the difference between sudo gainroot and root |
| 00:42.41 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: mind to enlighten me? |
| 00:42.53 | DocScrutinizer | I love to... |
| 00:43.04 | MohammadAG | one sets environmental variables, the other doesn't |
| 00:43.13 | MohammadAG | dbusdispatcher.cpp: In member function 'void Maemo::DBusDispatcher::setupDBus()': |
| 00:43.13 | MohammadAG | dbusdispatcher.cpp:474: error: 'g_main_context_get_thread_default' was not declared in this scope |
| 00:43.23 | MohammadAG | glib.h is included, any suggestions? |
| 00:43.28 | DocScrutinizer | sudo gainroot; date; id; uptime; exit |
| 00:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | is the short form for |
| 00:43.51 | DocScrutinizer | sudo date; sudo id; sudo uptime |
| 00:44.07 | DocScrutinizer | while "root" is another way to say "su -" |
| 00:44.26 | DocScrutinizer | root will change your whole environment |
| 00:44.52 | DocScrutinizer | while sudo gainroot just raises your permissions but your environment is that of user still |
| 00:45.02 | Gyjf | i will do this in the morning |
| 00:45.21 | Gyjf | clock is almost 3 |
| 00:45.42 | merlin1991 | sudo gainroot does change my path though |
| 00:45.57 | MohammadAG | nope, it shouldn't |
| 00:46.00 | Gyjf | or you can just ssh in as root :P |
| 00:46.01 | MohammadAG | (it doesn't here) |
| 00:46.16 | merlin1991 | after sudo gainroot Ihave /sbin and /usr/sbin appended to path |
| 00:46.42 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: you'll see the effect on "cd" or "ls -l ~/" |
| 00:47.04 | Gyjf | night |
| 00:47.27 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 00:47.40 | MohammadAG | meh, can't think, night |
| 00:47.41 | merlin1991 | had a look at the gainroot script |
| 00:47.48 | merlin1991 | it actually does append the stuff to path |
| 00:47.54 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 00:48.10 | merlin1991 | and has an option to use --use-su |
| 00:48.19 | merlin1991 | wich does su - in the end |
| 00:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | that's what "root" does iirc |
| 00:49.08 | DocScrutinizer | messybox nonsense :-S |
| 00:49.09 | merlin1991 | yep just found that |
| 00:49.18 | merlin1991 | root does indeed |
| 00:49.22 | merlin1991 | exec sudo gainroot --use-su |
| 00:49.26 | merlin1991 | wtf messystyle |
| 00:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | if there'd be a proper su, you wouldn't need all that cruft |
| 00:53.57 | DocScrutinizer | some 18 months ago I thought this is maemo idiocy, but actually it's all busybox |
| 00:54.22 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:54.36 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2010-06-23 06:13 /bin/su -> busybox |
| 00:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 355592 2010-03-12 09:54 /bin/busybox |
| 00:55.51 | DocScrutinizer | so how's that supposed to work, without busybox set SUID? exactly, it doesn't without tricks |
| 00:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | and you bet no sane maintainer or devel would consider chmod u+s busybox ;-P |
| 00:58.49 | DocScrutinizer | so you have to call -rwsr-xr-x 2 root root 91584 2009-04-17 10:50 /usr/bin/sudo to the rescue |
| 00:59.15 | DocScrutinizer | which is what gainroot and root do |
| 01:00.46 | merlin1991 | thx :) |
| 01:00.54 | DocScrutinizer | yw, a pleasure |
| 01:01.00 | merlin1991 | but now it's time for me to catch some sleep (you should too ;D) |
| 01:01.14 | merlin1991 | or do you operate entirely on coffee and thin air? |
| 01:02.17 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 01:03.49 | DocScrutinizer | that korean guy fell dead off his chair after 4 days of constant gaming. I'm planning to beat this by at least factor 100 ;-P |
| 01:05.39 | DocScrutinizer | (I'm cheating though) |
| 01:05.42 | Choom | you're gonna fall off your chair in less than an hour? |
| 01:06.03 | DocScrutinizer | don't think so XD |
| 01:13.28 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 01:19.18 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 01:20.44 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 01:22.46 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:27.20 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, if you've ever seen koreans playing starcraft, you'd know that it's futile to achieve their performance by simply staying awake... |
| 01:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I'd not even want to compete on that level |
| 01:29.28 | DocScrutinizer | the trick is to cheat smartly ;) |
| 01:29.34 | ShadowJK | Nah |
| 01:30.27 | DocScrutinizer | look at the US president's bodyguards - they are on duty 24/7 |
| 01:30.57 | DocScrutinizer | anyway sleep is overreated |
| 01:31.02 | ShadowJK | But 3 - 5 different set of bodyguards |
| 01:31.11 | DocScrutinizer | not really |
| 01:31.42 | ShadowJK | Watching korean PROs play SC is like startrek tng, Data doing stuff |
| 01:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | they take a 5min nap while driving from oval office to the helicopter, then another 10 min in the heli |
| 01:32.12 | DocScrutinizer | while the president is sleeping, they're awake |
| 01:34.29 | DocScrutinizer | When my dad built Data, he only practiced ;-D |
| 01:35.15 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 01:35.30 | ShadowJK | Like, watching those replays, I can almost..... 300 actions per minute... 5 (FIVE!) clicks per second... I can ALMOST follow them... And I might be able to do shit as fast... BUT, they start out IMPLEMENTING a plan, they REACT to the opponent's moves, they formulate MEW strategy on the fly... It's just fucking unbelievable any human brain can work that fast |
| 01:35.58 | ShadowJK | actually, the unbelievable part is that they can absorb the information |
| 01:36.55 | DocScrutinizer | smart filtering and a good neuronal network to do the associative pattern matching... Nothing spectacular |
| 01:37.12 | Choom | the human brain is capable of quite a lot of stuff provided it's trained to react to it |
| 01:37.20 | Choom | you don't have to think about typing either |
| 01:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | I've given up on this as it's boring |
| 01:37.46 | Choom | at least I don't, I think about the words and my fingers do the rest by themselves |
| 01:39.00 | ShadowJK | When you look at them, they're shifting focus of attention at like 30hz |
| 01:39.01 | dangergrrl | darn i don't even remember finding a metal case iĺl have to search my logfiles for it |
| 01:39.06 | dangergrrl | lol |
| 01:39.17 | DocScrutinizer | like driving a car (something that's still fun to me), you're lost if you want to *think* what to do next |
| 01:39.22 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@port-92-206-78-62.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 01:39.34 | ShadowJK | Which is so high, that they actually prefer CRT over LCD, because LCD/TFT is too slow to display clean frames :-) |
| 01:41.45 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I start to sypathise with those guys |
| 01:43.11 | DocScrutinizer | more often than not I spot problems/bugs in programs by subtle changes in timing of the reaction |
| 01:43.57 | ShadowJK | There was this famous incident in where one guy lost mostly because of a 1-bit transmission error :P |
| 01:46.29 | ShadowJK | They have one guy practicing against an opponen controlled by 2 humans :-) |
| 01:46.33 | DocScrutinizer | MSB or LSB ? ;-D |
| 01:47.00 | ShadowJK | dunno :) |
| 01:47.23 | ShadowJK | a 16x16 area of the map became penetrable where it previous had not been |
| 01:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | one wrong bit is what causes segfaults and buserrors |
| 01:48.10 | DocScrutinizer | ...or holes in the wall were none are expected :-D |
| 01:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | goes fixing another bit in the matrix |
| 01:48.48 | DocScrutinizer | YEEHA |
| 01:49.18 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@smtp.elizovotv.ru) |
| 01:49.24 | DocScrutinizer | "there is no spoon" |
| 01:52.40 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.78.44.191) |
| 01:52.40 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 01:56.17 | cehteh | dangergrrl: wasnt that you? |
| 01:56.40 | cehteh | someone here posted it, thought it was you |
| 02:01.37 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~metalgear@175.140.105.127) |
| 02:07.34 | SpeedEvil | On an unrelated matter to spoons. Does anyone know if bluetooth devices - unpaired - can be reliably IDd? |
| 02:07.42 | SpeedEvil | Or is it simple to spoof the address. |
| 02:08.04 | SpeedEvil | I'm wondering if I can use a bluetooth device as a 'key' |
| 02:08.36 | SpeedEvil | On reflection, it seems unlikely, as it'd need to do a key exchange, rather than just broadcast the MAC |
| 02:09.55 | DocScrutinizer | umm, given the fact you must have some sort of flash on a BT dongle... |
| 02:10.21 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning a pair of BT headphones. |
| 02:10.33 | DocScrutinizer | no diff |
| 02:10.48 | SpeedEvil | I'm not asking can they - the common CSR chips are quite flexile enough to - it's will they. |
| 02:10.56 | SpeedEvil | And I suspect the answer is no. |
| 02:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | the mask part of the chip is always the same |
| 02:11.06 | SpeedEvil | wishes CSR stuff was more dev-friendly. |
| 02:11.16 | ShadowJK | I have a bunch of bluetooth dongles all identifying as 11:11:11:11... |
| 02:11.17 | SpeedEvil | A surprising amount of stuff is flash. |
| 02:12.15 | DocScrutinizer | so whatever your BT headphones say their "name" is... yes I'll spoof it |
| 02:12.35 | SpeedEvil | http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC41C671A-IPK-E4CT-ND |
| 02:12.59 | SpeedEvil | For example |
| 02:13.11 | *** join/#maemo tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 02:13.12 | SpeedEvil | Annoyingly, the dev environment is decidedly unfree (in both senses) |
| 02:14.17 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 02:14.49 | DocScrutinizer | there's no such thing like an unspoofable MAC. BT pairing OTOH is considered safe afaik |
| 02:15.25 | SpeedEvil | Annoyingly you can't pair to multiple devices or that'd be a good solution. |
| 02:15.42 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, a rare feature |
| 02:16.33 | DocScrutinizer | there are "networks" of (iirc) up to 8 devices |
| 02:16.40 | merlin1991 | So doc, how do you cheat to avoid sleep? |
| 02:16.52 | DocScrutinizer | I'm sleeptyping |
| 02:16.55 | ShadowJK | Caffeine pills? |
| 02:16.59 | ShadowJK | red bull? |
| 02:17.03 | ShadowJK | Red bull heli? :D |
| 02:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | I got a good cpufreq governor |
| 02:17.45 | merlin1991 | Sleeptyping, hell I gotta learn how todo that |
| 02:17.56 | ShadowJK | Actually you only need to be awake 5 minutes every 60-120 minutes to create the illusion of being awake |
| 02:18.07 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 02:18.17 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-13-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 02:18.19 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 02:18.19 | merlin1991 | No honestly you seem to be awake 24/7 |
| 02:18.34 | DocScrutinizer | see? it works :-) |
| 02:19.12 | SpeedEvil | 95% of DocScrutinizer is simply a reprogrammed 'clippy'. |
| 02:19.28 | ds3 | ShadowJK: any research to justify that duty cycle? |
| 02:19.30 | merlin1991 | wonders what doc does for a living and how that works out with his irc activity |
| 02:19.50 | ShadowJK | ds3, not really :-) |
| 02:19.53 | ds3 | prehaps from the ATC industry ;) |
| 02:20.24 | ShadowJK | ds3, just 10.. wait, is it 2011 already? 12 years of IRC experience :-) |
| 02:20.29 | DocScrutinizer | <yawn> did I miss anything? |
| 02:21.47 | dangergrrl | cehteh: i don't remember it does not mean it was not me; it is entirely possible if i look in my browser history i have such a case sometimes my love for beer gets the best of me and i forget things :) |
| 02:22.22 | ShadowJK | Anything you do in a browser is ignored/forgotten/forgiven on IRC |
| 02:22.26 | ShadowJK | surely? |
| 02:22.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | DocScrutinizer: not really, you can take another nap |
| 02:22.51 | merlin1991 | starts to get docs cheat |
| 02:22.55 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 02:22.57 | ShadowJK | Dude don't reply to yourself, It's pyscho. |
| 02:23.11 | merlin1991 | One doc is a general complaining raging bot |
| 02:23.18 | merlin1991 | And the other one is real |
| 02:23.31 | *** join/#maemo ghostnik11 (~ghostnik1@pool-98-113-90-127.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:23.32 | merlin1991 | Using doc #1 as a relay from time to time |
| 02:23.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol, and who's who? |
| 02:23.46 | merlin1991 | To make doc #1 apear human too |
| 02:24.18 | merlin1991 | How's that test for chatbots called? |
| 02:24.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | turing? |
| 02:25.42 | merlin1991 | I thin that one was it |
| 02:25.43 | ghostnik11 | hi wanted to know whats up with new meego, will we see any device in usa with new meego os and also will there be a new n900 or a phone that is similar to n900 with better specs? |
| 02:26.34 | merlin1991 | starts the masterplan to unvail the doc bot |
| 02:26.51 | SpeedEvil | There will be a new meego device from nokia this year - they have confirmed. |
| 02:26.55 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: who's your maker? |
| 02:27.01 | SpeedEvil | Anything further is quite questionable. |
| 02:27.05 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer51: who's your maker? |
| 02:27.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | merlin1991: DocScrutinizer51 is my maker |
| 02:27.20 | merlin1991 | now if one says doc we know it ;) |
| 02:27.36 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: DocScrutinizer is my maker |
| 02:27.40 | merlin1991 | Lmao |
| 02:28.19 | merlin1991 | is done with the op action, night #maemo |
| 02:28.32 | merlin1991 | S/op/ot/ |
| 02:28.57 | ghostnik11 | speedevil: okay cool, hope they put usa 3g and 4g bands in it and allow it to run on tmobile network |
| 02:29.34 | SpeedEvil | ghostnik11: No clue - sorry. |
| 02:30.11 | SpeedEvil | ghostnik11: I have heard from sources that should know that the hardware has been in existance as usable prototypes for 9 months. Which puts limits on what chips it might have. |
| 02:30.21 | ShadowJK | USA is an aberration, it takes great effort to support it |
| 02:30.37 | *** join/#maemo maybeHere (cl@p5B16668E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:30.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | ghostnik11: latest FCC papers suggest it will do t-mo but no 4G |
| 02:32.01 | ghostnik11 | docscrutinizer51: why wouldn't nokia put a 4g band in there, they can put anything they imagine in there phones |
| 02:32.31 | ShadowJK | 4g mostly doesn't exist yet |
| 02:32.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | dunno, maybe because there's been no chipset for that when development started |
| 02:33.07 | ghostnik11 | shadowjK: i don't get why would it take a lot of effort to get supported in usa, i think the n900 is the best phone ever created in terms of smart phones and what you can do with it |
| 02:33.34 | ghostnik11 | good point i am under tmobile and it really isn't 4g more like 3.5 |
| 02:33.42 | ShadowJK | USA is problematic, because every single fucking operator uses their own frequence OR their own modulation |
| 02:33.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | ghostnik11: USA is insane wrt cellphone standard |
| 02:34.03 | ShadowJK | So there is no competition, because everyone is sticking to their own shit |
| 02:34.12 | SpeedEvil | And each different waveband requires actual hardware to support. |
| 02:34.19 | ShadowJK | indeed |
| 02:34.26 | SpeedEvil | Each different modulation requires support in the modem chipset to do it. |
| 02:34.36 | SpeedEvil | And in some cases, approval by the carrier. |
| 02:34.46 | ShadowJK | yeah ;/ |
| 02:34.58 | SpeedEvil | That is - you cannot make a phone, and connect it to the network, they need to approve it. |
| 02:35.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | USA is worse than india and africa |
| 02:35.57 | ghostnik11 | this is some bull, i am actually mad b/c right now at&t wants to buy tmobile usa reducing the amount of competition and know your saying this whole time the carriers have to give manufacturing phone companies approval b/4 they can build a phone |
| 02:36.22 | ShadowJK | begins parsing |
| 02:37.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | no, they give approval for you to use that phone with their network |
| 02:37.39 | ShadowJK | As a non-american speaker you're incomprehensible |
| 02:37.55 | SpeedEvil | ghostnik11: In some cases, yes. Only GSM networks - generally - are 'you stick a SIM in, and it works'. |
| 02:40.02 | dangergrrl | tmobile has my account with the "unlimited*¨ data plan marked mandatory |
| 02:40.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | ghostnik11: you know each phone has an IMEI, a globally unique identifier, and carriers can 'ban' arbitrary phone models - even single phones |
| 02:40.44 | dangergrrl | but they have me listed with some nokia symbian model that also has mandatory unlimited |
| 02:41.50 | dangergrrl | tmobile is only less sucky than att |
| 02:41.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | dangergrrl: lost me |
| 02:42.03 | ghostnik11 | docscrutinizer51: wow, thats not fair, as long as i willing to pay a carrier, they shouldn't block me if they see my imei and see that its not on there list of imei that are good on there network |
| 02:42.42 | dangergrrl | i can not pick a lower data plan, this one is mandatory, i wouldn't want to anyhow but i can't |
| 02:42.48 | ShadowJK | reparses: "this is quite disapproveable, I am actually quite upset right now, because the operator AT(et)T wants to buy tmobileusa, reducing the amount of competition, and, NOW YOU ARE saying carriers have to give manufacturing phone companies approval before they can build a phone" |
| 02:43.27 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: if att buys tmobile-usa, i am screwed i refuse to pay a higher bill after the merger, and will just not have a cell phone and simply use sip through wi-fi connected to google voice |
| 02:43.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | ghostnik11: in south korea however it's mandatory to register your phone with that carrier, and they either give you their models or ask for really huge amounts of money for registering 'alien' models |
| 02:44.23 | ghostnik11 | docscrutinizer51: so wait that can happen in the usa also? |
| 02:44.35 | ShadowJK | has: unlimited data transfer & speed 9.90⬠/ month, MultiSIM 5 cards maximum 3.90 per month.. :-) |
| 02:44.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | can, could, dunno |
| 02:45.26 | ShadowJK | ghostnik11, it depends on how fascist your operator wants to be |
| 02:45.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | ghostnik11: technically it's no problem |
| 02:46.31 | ghostnik11 | shadowjk: i am under tmobile in usa and there not that bad b/c i only have data plan, unlimited and get free text and voice (via sip over 3g and wifi) |
| 02:46.50 | ghostnik11 | for free text i use google voice |
| 02:47.03 | dangergrrl | i don't know anyone who has an n900 and at&t cell service, they may not even offer service for an n900 they charge extra to allow tethering for example and they can not block it on an n900 |
| 02:47.28 | ShadowJK | If they go full Kim Jong Il level of fascism you better prepare to sacrifice your first born |
| 02:47.31 | dangergrrl | and charge a premium for tethered bandwidth |
| 02:48.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | here's always turaya and iridium and inmarsat ;-) |
| 02:48.34 | dangergrrl | \the n900 is way too open for the cell companies to like it |
| 02:48.34 | ShadowJK | My oeprator says "Bandwidth is bandwidth is bandwidth" |
| 02:48.36 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: thats another thing, i use android and have it rooted so i do tethering any time i want and don't get charged extra, but if at&t buys tmobile i can see that being blocked |
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| 02:49.54 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: thats why i feel they didn't market under a carrier here in the states b/c every time i look at n900 i can't believe why it didn't come to states under tmobile, its far superior to iphone 3g that was out at the time n900 was out |
| 02:49.57 | dangergrrl | i can forsee expensive consultant fees in the future of one or more us fcc commishioners :) |
| 02:50.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | detwecting tehtering is really difficult and sually not done |
| 02:52.26 | ghostnik11 | wait how can a carrier know if we are tethering, i mean if they see a spike in amout of data that a users uses for a day, that can't mean the user is tethering |
| 02:52.32 | SpeedEvil | Even more so with x86 phones |
| 02:52.37 | dangergrrl | if you have a locked device i thought they could turn it on and off |
| 02:52.39 | SpeedEvil | ghostnik11: Deep packet inspection. |
| 02:53.11 | SpeedEvil | ghostnik11: Can the device run the program it's got packets coming through it from. |
| 02:53.26 | SpeedEvil | For example - phones can't run starcraft. |
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| 02:53.42 | ghostnik11 | speedevil: so that means they can see also if you in your data are using voip on your phone and block it |
| 02:54.00 | SpeedEvil | Of course. |
| 02:54.47 | dangergrrl | i don't thing the ToS i am under provides for blocking arbitrary data |
| 02:54.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | blocking SIP is a commonly used way to sell more minutes |
| 02:55.10 | SpeedEvil | dangergrrl: Look at the 'to protect the network' clauses. |
| 02:55.12 | ghostnik11 | speedevil: great, my whole plan of what i have been doing can be put in jeopardy if they feel like just inspecting my data, this is bad, i depend on sip |
| 02:55.16 | SpeedEvil | Or similar. |
| 02:56.05 | dangergrrl | actually the 5GB and then clamp to ~80kbits is pretty effective |
| 02:56.22 | dangergrrl | i can not do voip with tmobile right now |
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| 02:56.35 | dangergrrl | or listen to pandora |
| 02:57.05 | dangergrrl | when iḿ below my data quote pandora never skips on me riding my motorcycle all over central texas |
| 02:57.11 | dangergrrl | quota |
| 02:58.17 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: yeah but i never reach 5 gbs maybe 2gbs b/c i always feel like tmobile is watching me, especially since i had called and told them i don't want voice or text on my phone anymore and just wanted to keep my unlimited data plan, and get everything else for free b/c as long as i have internet on my phone i can get everything else free |
| 02:58.27 | dangergrrl | most days i pull 5GB on the cable link |
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| 02:59.16 | SpeedEvil | I'm tending to not hit my 80G/mo cap by a fair margin. |
| 02:59.36 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: yeah on home internet i pull 5gb in a day also on verizon fios but thats different |
| 02:59.47 | dangergrrl | and we didn't pay cable this month so been using my phone for pc internet |
| 03:00.20 | ShadowJK | My 50kbps unit can stream BBC World Service fine. |
| 03:00.52 | ShadowJK | VoIP is like <20kbps :-) |
| 03:00.57 | SpeedEvil | I keep meaning to try to get a rtmp transcoder working properly. |
| 03:01.23 | dangergrrl | i don't know what they are doing but i get 7.5kbytes/s on most file transfers |
| 03:01.32 | dangergrrl | and nothing streaming works at all |
| 03:01.42 | ShadowJK | Of course, if operators want to be assholes they'll throttle to 0 kbps for 10 seconds and 40 for 10 seconds, and call it 20 |
| 03:02.06 | dangergrrl | that may be how they are doing it |
| 03:02.15 | ShadowJK | (and it'll be slightly less then 20 for a download) |
| 03:02.16 | SpeedEvil | Deep packet inspection. |
| 03:02.22 | ghostnik11 | shadowjk: when i check my tmobile data though, its kind of weird b/c if i talk to someone while i am using sip on carrier network, per min its like a mb. so if i talk 19 mins it shows up as 19 mb |
| 03:02.23 | SpeedEvil | And per-site blocking. |
| 03:02.28 | ShadowJK | Demand information, demand details. |
| 03:02.37 | dangergrrl | pandora i can connect to |
| 03:02.38 | ShadowJK | I dunno |
| 03:02.50 | dangergrrl | but i get regular pauses in the audio |
| 03:03.00 | SpeedEvil | My ISP explicitly explains what they prioritise, and how. |
| 03:03.07 | dangergrrl | enough to where it is not enjoyable |
| 03:03.18 | ShadowJK | you americans are like "I want a cellphone" <operator> "Ok, bend over, and I'll assrape you" - "Please be gentle" - "That'll be $150 extra for lube" |
| 03:03.49 | SpeedEvil | rtmp transcorder for flash - so I can watch a 1M flash stream as a 100k stream. |
| 03:04.14 | ShadowJK | I guess it's not easy when everyone is an assrapist |
| 03:04.14 | dangergrrl | ShadowJK: there are only two gsm providers in the usa, probably only one soon |
| 03:04.17 | ghostnik11 | i need to start like a sip revolution and tell people in usa that we should boycott carriers and just use sip and other voip for phone communcations |
| 03:05.07 | dangergrrl | all other cell providers are CDMA |
| 03:05.59 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: i just want to know if that merger goes through, how much fcc was bribed to make merger happen, b/c it seems like every tmobile customer is against this merger |
| 03:06.35 | dangergrrl | ghostnik11: every cell phone customer should be against it no matter who they use |
| 03:07.59 | dangergrrl | there is supposed to be a new iphone soon that does both GSM and CDMA so that verizon customers can have world portable iphones |
| 03:08.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, USA opted for CDMA and GSM was a late start and probably never performed up to breakeven ROI wise |
| 03:08.48 | dangergrrl | which the fcc may use as justification to allow the merger |
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| 03:09.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | now they're simply running out of available band while going for 3G, 4G whatnot |
| 03:09.34 | ghostnik11 | thats the thing i went from CDMA (verizon) to GSM (tmobile) and i won't go back, the fact that i can just take a sim and put into anyone and it will work, is fantastic |
| 03:09.41 | dangergrrl | thatÅ the biggest reason against it; only gsm phones are world portable and this merger would make att the only gsm provider |
| 03:10.44 | ghostnik11 | meant to say any phone |
| 03:11.19 | dangergrrl | true enough if my n900 broke i could go get a tracphone prepay at walmart and put my sim in it while the n900 was getting repaired |
| 03:11.54 | dangergrrl | dunno who tracphone resells but it must be att or tmobile |
| 03:13.45 | dangergrrl | my sister gets a good deal on unlimited text and data from virgin mobile and even has an android phone; in a year on what she saves over sprint (same network even) the android phones will be paid for |
| 03:14.03 | dangergrrl | i wanted an n900 |
| 03:14.21 | dangergrrl | if i didn't want an n900 i would still want a gsm device |
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| 03:15.20 | dangergrrl | hmm, is a $30 feature phone likely to be sim locked? |
| 03:15.45 | ghostnik11 | i wish i had a n900, but learned about it late, i just wanted it to be offered in the states but didn't have money to buy it brand new off nokia site, and now i am waiting for the next n900 from nokia that will contain meego |
| 03:15.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | probably |
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| 03:16.07 | dangergrrl | oh i bought mine on amazon |
| 03:16.14 | dangergrrl | $350 last december |
| 03:16.27 | dangergrrl | last time i checked they want $550 again |
| 03:17.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's kinda insane |
| 03:17.24 | dangergrrl | if you watch the price on amazon they go as low as $300 |
| 03:17.54 | ghostnik11 | well i will wait, for this meego phone that i hope its coming to tmobile in usa and hopefully tmobile won't be bought by at&t so i will get to enjoy a phone that can last for the next 5 to 7 years with out having to say i need an upgrade or new phone |
| 03:18.09 | dangergrrl | $350 for a handheld computer than i can use as a phone? |
| 03:19.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | dangergrrl: going up |
| 03:19.04 | dangergrrl | thatÅ not insane i would want it if it did not have gsm or cdma at all |
| 03:19.31 | ghostnik11 | the thing about n900 is that it transcends time, i feel, its the only phone i know that can run 3 different OS and you can do anything with it. Apple has a commercial that says they have an app for everything for there iphone brand but an n900 transcends time which iphone can't b/c people always have to get latest one |
| 03:19.34 | dangergrrl | i wouldn't buy it at 550, i would wait :) |
| 03:20.48 | dangergrrl | ghostnik11: what i would do if i were you is wait for the manual for the new device to be released june 26th or so |
| 03:20.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | 4 OS |
| 03:20.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | 5 actually |
| 03:21.01 | dangergrrl | then you will maybe know what itÅ specs are |
| 03:21.25 | dangergrrl | DocScrutinizer51: i am wanting to port OSKIT to n900 also |
| 03:22.02 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: i will, i am just hoping even though its probably by a miracle that it would contain 4g bands |
| 03:22.06 | dangergrrl | the n900 should go down in price before itÅ out of stock in theory |
| 03:22.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | ghostnik11: it won't |
| 03:22.28 | dangergrrl | it is 3.5 like the n900 |
| 03:22.33 | dangergrrl | that is released already |
| 03:22.38 | dangergrrl | in the fcc report |
| 03:23.07 | dangergrrl | i also do not think it has an fm transmitter |
| 03:23.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | I mentioned that like 2h ago |
| 03:23.18 | dangergrrl | because the fcc report did not mention it |
| 03:23.28 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: well if its 3.5 then thats perfect b/c my carrier only has up to 3.5 that they market as 4g |
| 03:24.17 | dangergrrl | DocScrutinizer51: was it hspda? you know these acronyms better than i do |
| 03:24.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | then why not get a N900? |
| 03:24.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | HSPA |
| 03:24.37 | psycho_oreos | because they are cheapskates |
| 03:24.53 | dangergrrl | i love the fm transmitter |
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| 03:25.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | d own and u p |
| 03:25.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | high speed (downlink / uplink) packet access |
| 03:26.16 | ghostnik11 | damn no fm transmitter but why wouldn't they include it as the n900 has it |
| 03:26.47 | dangergrrl | i think i have 160 minutes more video to watch before i can archive some more video and free some disk space |
| 03:26.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | too much trouble |
| 03:27.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | with cert |
| 03:27.47 | ghostnik11 | oh for tmobile its hspa + = 4g network here in usa |
| 03:28.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | hspa+ is faster hspa |
| 03:28.33 | dangergrrl | DocScrutinizer51: if it had fm it would have been listed in that fcc test wouldn't it? |
| 03:28.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's usually useless though |
| 03:28.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | dangergrrl: probably |
| 03:29.11 | dangergrrl | most of that report was greek to me |
| 03:29.28 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 03:29.37 | dangergrrl | i have no idea if rf energy is harmful to my brain or if it is how much is enough to worry about |
| 03:29.45 | SpeedEvil | Isn't it exempted under 'low power' rules? |
| 03:29.56 | psycho_oreos | and here comes that same old lame debate about rf energy being harmful |
| 03:29.58 | SpeedEvil | Does the n900 test report mention fmtx I guess |
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| 03:30.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: also possible |
| 03:30.17 | SpeedEvil | places psycho_oreos in his microwave oven, and hits defrost. |
| 03:30.19 | dangergrrl | SpeedEvil: they would have to turn it on in the body adsorbtion tests i am thinking |
| 03:30.24 | psycho_oreos | if you're that worried about rf energy is harmful, don't buy a phone, simple |
| 03:30.33 | *** part/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@91-66-18-182-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 03:30.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | you could check back with N900 FCC |
| 03:30.44 | psycho_oreos | sends SpeedEvil to hell for a quick tour of heated earth :þ |
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| 03:30.45 | ghostnik11 | rf energy might be harmful but i think we should do more test on if it actually is or isn't |
| 03:31.17 | SpeedEvil | dangergrrl: The power emitted by the FM transmitter is about 20 million times weaker than the cellphone. |
| 03:31.24 | dangergrrl | they were measuring the maximum energy it could transmit into a tissue like substance shaped like a human head |
| 03:31.54 | SpeedEvil | Also - the coupling of that frequency into the human body is worse than at GSM freqs. |
| 03:32.20 | psycho_oreos | everyday we're exposed to rf energy of some sort, yet you're feeblishly worrying what a cell phone could do to your head.. good lord. There's plenty of other phones out there whom may not have placed such a burden on your head |
| 03:32.48 | dangergrrl | iḿ not worried |
| 03:33.03 | dangergrrl | that was the information that is released on the new device |
| 03:33.06 | psycho_oreos | I wonder how good of a troll you'll be in ##iphone or #android talking the same old bullshit with rf energy |
| 03:33.11 | ghostnik11 | hey we don't know the implications right away some of these things take years to develop into a disease, look at cigarettes and lung cancer at first no one knew the dangers |
| 03:33.18 | dangergrrl | i was scanning it for information |
| 03:33.42 | dangergrrl | i was just saying i had no way to use most if the information that was available |
| 03:34.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | psycho_oreos: please |
| 03:34.14 | dangergrrl | all that had been relesased was an fcc test report |
| 03:34.39 | psycho_oreos | the bottom line is, if you're here to buy a phone for functionality, you probably wouldn't give a damn about rf being in the way |
| 03:34.43 | psycho_oreos | sighs |
| 03:34.51 | dangergrrl | it lists all the bands that the device has radio transmitters on |
| 03:34.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | dangergrrl: it's the SAR value, a mandatory test for all cellphones nowadays |
| 03:35.07 | dangergrrl | right |
| 03:35.57 | dangergrrl | i learned for example that is has 802.11n but not dual band |
| 03:36.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | it allows to compare different phone types |
| 03:36.29 | ghostnik11 | docscrutinizer51: the SAR rating on my phone htc magic/sapphire 32B is on high end and the phone does heat up alot when under heavy use and some times my hands might hurt me for a little after i am done using it after heavy usages |
| 03:36.40 | dangergrrl | DocScrutinizer51: the info i was looking for was of the sort i just mentioned |
| 03:37.12 | dangergrrl | but i scanned through all the diagrams of rf penetrating a model head to see if it said anything else interesting |
| 03:37.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | dangergrrl: I know |
| 03:37.37 | dangergrrl | that part was boring |
| 03:37.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | hehe |
| 03:38.19 | dangergrrl | my original statement was that i do not even know that it is a fact that rf energy is harmful at all |
| 03:38.36 | dangergrrl | some people seem very concerned about VLF |
| 03:39.05 | dangergrrl | i have not studied their claims |
| 03:39.28 | dangergrrl | so i do not know if it is harmful to live under high tension power lines for example |
| 03:39.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | indeed, the farmers in northern germany, when their cows fall down dead when the 5Hz submarine communication transmitter fires |
| 03:40.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | (some xx MW) |
| 03:40.55 | dangergrrl | i am not saying it is not real |
| 03:41.08 | dangergrrl | but do you know that it is real? |
| 03:41.09 | ghostnik11 | docscrutinizer51: is there an article on web i can read about that info you just posted |
| 03:41.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | dead cows? |
| 03:41.29 | dangergrrl | i said i have not reviewed factual evidence |
| 03:41.30 | ghostnik11 | yes |
| 03:41.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | dunno, google is your friend |
| 03:41.51 | ghostnik11 | thanks |
| 03:42.01 | dangergrrl | dead cows that can be directly correlated to submarine VLF transmissions |
| 03:42.40 | dangergrrl | i mean i have heard bits and pieces about a thing called HAARP |
| 03:42.57 | dangergrrl | but the people who talk about it are usually of questionable sanity |
| 03:43.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, rings a bell |
| 03:43.18 | ghostnik11 | HAARP read about haarp and weather manipulation and nikolas tesla |
| 03:43.42 | dangergrrl | i think itÅ a standing wave weapon of some sort in theory |
| 03:44.55 | dangergrrl | i don't know about a lot of things but i try to keep an open mind |
| 03:45.14 | dangergrrl | i am pretty sure there is no secret reptillian world shadow government |
| 03:45.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, the submarine thing is simple transmitter for reaching submarines on sea. You need insanely low freq and high energy. The antenna is a burried cable loop |
| 03:45.32 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: don't know if its true but in life i believe anything is possible, i mean in school in primary school at least we never learned about there being 100 tornadoes all at once and the past couple months in the states we have been getting 100 tornadoes at once which to me is crazy weather |
| 03:45.47 | dangergrrl | if you leave the reptillians out of it i have concerns there may be some truth to it |
| 03:45.57 | ghostnik11 | lol |
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| 03:47.00 | dangergrrl | art bell and alex jones would have you believe all recent us presidents have been reptiles wearing latex human suits |
| 03:47.14 | dangergrrl | oh and charlie sheen |
| 03:47.33 | dangergrrl | but he admitted he is on crack |
| 03:47.39 | ghostnik11 | alex jones is the man but not everything he says is true, you have to take it as a grain of salt |
| 03:47.58 | dangergrrl | i think some of it is true |
| 03:48.03 | dangergrrl | the riddle is how much |
| 03:48.08 | ghostnik11 | good point |
| 03:48.28 | dangergrrl | if you want to hide the truth you feed it to a nutjob noone will believe |
| 03:48.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | he part about crack might be true |
| 03:49.05 | dangergrrl | i think charlie sheen really is on crack |
| 03:49.28 | dangergrrl | i believe there really was nanothermite residue at "gorund zero" |
| 03:49.33 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl most likely cocaine which is the drug of choice for rich celebs and people on wall street |
| 03:49.55 | dangergrrl | i believe osama bin laden knew too much to risk taking him alive |
| 03:50.06 | ghostnik11 | lol |
| 03:50.22 | dangergrrl | i think he had something to do with 9/11 |
| 03:50.53 | dangergrrl | but someone in the government had to have been involved |
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| 03:51.12 | ghostnik11 | what did he know? i mean they were looking for him for a long time, i think there was no way osama was going to be trial by jury, what would he say? |
| 03:51.21 | dangergrrl | obl was unarmed orders were to kill not capture |
| 03:51.57 | dangergrrl | we could have taken him to nuremburg |
| 03:52.06 | dangergrrl | but bush and obama should go too |
| 03:52.09 | dangergrrl | and blair |
| 03:52.13 | ghostnik11 | that is strange to me though, why was he unarmed i mean didn't he know the usa was coming for him, with full force |
| 03:52.45 | dangergrrl | after 10 years? |
| 03:53.02 | dangergrrl | if you go underground |
| 03:53.13 | dangergrrl | and they do not find you after 10 years |
| 03:53.18 | dangergrrl | you would relax some |
| 03:53.44 | ghostnik11 | 10 years man, i wanted to know how the hell he was hiding so well, we have satellites that can track every move and this man can stay hidden for 10 years? |
| 03:53.54 | dangergrrl | abby hoffmanÅ book on the time he spent underground is amazing |
| 03:54.21 | dangergrrl | the fbi 10 most wanted list is propaganda |
| 03:54.31 | dangergrrl | if you are hiding and appear on it |
| 03:54.38 | dangergrrl | it means they think they have you |
| 03:55.55 | ghostnik11 | i figured there was no way anyone can hide from usa government, its the usa government they will hunt anyone down and find them look at wesley snipes who didn't pay taxes, usa went to his swiss bank accounts with money and talked to swiss government and bam they got his money and put him in jail |
| 03:56.05 | dangergrrl | (i think it was "Soon To Be A Major Motion Picture"/Abby Hoffman) |
| 03:56.37 | dangergrrl | one has to wonder |
| 03:57.08 | dangergrrl | are they really less competent or capable than one would think |
| 03:57.14 | dangergrrl | or were they not trying |
| 03:58.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | they didn't want to |
| 03:58.30 | dangergrrl | i think osama bin laden took credit for wtc after the fact because he wanted the notoreity |
| 03:58.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | hell, how to sell Irak to the masses - when bin laden been caughr |
| 03:59.18 | dangergrrl | the other things that i am sure he was involved with he could have been convicted of |
| 03:59.51 | dangergrrl | what if they put hime on trial for 9/11 and he actually did not plan that one? |
| 03:59.51 | ghostnik11 | well why wouldn't they want to, i mean osama i feel should have been found the next day and we shouldn't have had to go to war b/c of osama with 2 countries, we should have just sent elite teams like we did from beginning and capture him within a couple weeks or months but not 10 years |
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| 04:00.19 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: then its back the drawing boards to find out who really did it |
| 04:00.31 | ghostnik11 | but he took credit for doing it |
| 04:00.49 | dangergrrl | it fit with his agenda to be credited for it |
| 04:01.00 | dangergrrl | whether he did it or not |
| 04:01.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | ghostnik11: where's the profit in that? |
| 04:01.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | for industry |
| 04:01.48 | dangergrrl | i do not know what really happened and the people who know for sure are not talking |
| 04:01.52 | ghostnik11 | well one things for sure all troops should be home resting, not at war? since osama bin hidden is found and dead |
| 04:01.55 | dangergrrl | i do not buy the official story |
| 04:02.15 | dangergrrl | ghostnik11: that is what i hope will come of this |
| 04:02.48 | dangergrrl | but the troops will not come home from afghanistan until mid 2012 i bet |
| 04:03.06 | dangergrrl | just in time for the election |
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| 04:03.08 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 04:03.28 | ghostnik11 | docscrutinizer51: well your right about that the war industrial complex companies are making a fortune but at the people of the usa's expense b/c we have to pay bill through taxes that why i don't think we as a country should put our own people in danger by going to war b/c we lose money and might lose our own people's lives |
| 04:03.32 | dangergrrl | maybe i just watch rt.com too much |
| 04:03.51 | ghostnik11 | rt.com is great |
| 04:04.02 | dangergrrl | it is russian propaganda |
| 04:04.08 | dangergrrl | but i love it |
| 04:04.46 | dangergrrl | they convinced me that the entire cold war was because of the evil usa and uk |
| 04:05.07 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: tell u what if the troops come home in time for re-election then your right about everything you said b/c that's too well timed for current administration |
| 04:05.10 | dangergrrl | and i saw the vistory day parade in red square |
| 04:05.47 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: if the troops come home for 2012, why couldn't they come back now |
| 04:06.00 | dangergrrl | i do not know what is up with the bilderburg group |
| 04:06.05 | dangergrrl | i believe they exist |
| 04:06.37 | dangergrrl | i believe hillary and obama slipped away from campaign commitments to go to a meeting |
| 04:07.11 | ghostnik11 | well there have always been secret societies since god knows when, i believe the exist, and i believe they are powerful in terms of certain things. like elections and other stuff that involves high ranking officials |
| 04:07.13 | dangergrrl | i do not know that they have plans for mass murder or enslavement |
| 04:07.49 | dangergrrl | all of this information is out there |
| 04:07.56 | dangergrrl | some is true and some is false |
| 04:08.26 | dangergrrl | have you seen "the yes men save the world |
| 04:08.44 | ghostnik11 | yeah well i have the internet to help thanks for the information like stuff like that b/c i know for a fact regular news wouldn't bring stuff like that |
| 04:08.55 | ghostnik11 | the yes men save the world? no? whats that |
| 04:09.08 | dangergrrl | it is a film on vodo |
| 04:09.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | do you really need anything more than your own common sense to see the truth? |
| 04:09.32 | dangergrrl | http://vo.do/ or http://vodo.net/ i think |
| 04:09.52 | ghostnik11 | docscrutinizer51: no but its good when you see what you always knew or thought would happen |
| 04:10.22 | dangergrrl | DocScrutinizer51: you know there is a xephyr/virtualbox issue? |
| 04:10.35 | dangergrrl | each blames the other |
| 04:10.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | this applies for every BS nowadays. You can find literally everything in internet |
| 04:11.07 | dangergrrl | xephyr will not work in a client with virtualbox guest editions |
| 04:11.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | dangergrrl: nothing known |
| 04:11.24 | dangergrrl | and some of the sdk apps are hard coded for unix sockets |
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| 04:11.55 | dangergrrl | if you remove guest additions it works |
| 04:12.31 | dangergrrl | can not just run xephyr in the host and use ipaddr:2 |
| 04:13.01 | dangergrrl | i wanted to try to fix it myself before i asked anyone for help |
| 04:13.18 | dangergrrl | i found a workaround |
| 04:14.09 | dangergrrl | but sadly the virtualbox and xephyr folks are too busy pointing fingers at each other to actually fix the problem if i want it to work right i have to find the bug myself |
| 04:14.35 | ghostnik11 | dangergrrl: thanks for making me aware of the yes men fix the world will watch it and thanks everyone else for information and good conversation on different topics |
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| 04:15.20 | dangergrrl | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose/+bug/673597 |
| 04:15.30 | dangergrrl | one of the many articles i found on it |
| 04:17.05 | dangergrrl | DocScrutinizer51: i wanted it in the irc log that this was a known issue with workaround, is our irc log indexed by google? |
| 04:17.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | sure |
| 04:17.52 | dangergrrl | good then i do not need to post on tmo or anything :) |
| 04:18.20 | dangergrrl | i don't actually have an account yet i have not needed to post |
| 04:20.10 | dangergrrl | i will have one |
| 04:20.35 | dangergrrl | when i have code to contribute |
| 04:22.39 | SpeedEvil | Or fix the wiki |
| 04:23.54 | dangergrrl | does the wiki actually cover installing the sdk in virtualbox with 32 bit ubuntu? |
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| 05:39.29 | psycho_oreos | woot, USB networking finally working properly on both N900 :D |
| 05:40.10 | pronto | :O |
| 05:40.11 | pronto | neat |
| 05:40.30 | psycho_oreos | you have two or more N900? |
| 05:42.12 | psycho_oreos | maybe not I suppose :) |
| 05:42.51 | pronto | i have one n900 |
| 05:43.09 | pronto | dont really use it much anymore |
| 05:43.34 | psycho_oreos | so what do you use now? |
| 05:44.07 | pronto | the atrix |
| 05:44.38 | psycho_oreos | android =_= |
| 05:44.41 | pronto | got tired of being stuck on 2.5g honestly |
| 05:45.05 | pronto | plus it has a finger print scanner o_o |
| 05:45.24 | psycho_oreos | I think that's a problem with the carrier if you're stuck with 2.5G |
| 05:45.41 | pronto | yeah att's freq for 3g is something that the n900 does not support |
| 05:48.04 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 05:48.17 | pronto | plus, i have '4g' , and a phone thats like 1/3rd as thick |
| 05:50.57 | psycho_oreos | too bad it doesn't have a hardware keyboard and a puny 16GB internal storage :) probably also has locked bootloader |
| 05:51.18 | psycho_oreos | s/and a/and has a/ |
| 05:52.43 | pronto | *shrugs* its a lot faster, swype is decent enough |
| 05:53.12 | pronto | i do miss a lot of the things maemo had though |
| 05:53.23 | psycho_oreos | well without a doubt it probably will be, dual core 1GHz processor and has google's backing |
| 05:53.43 | pronto | the camera is horrid comapred to the n900 though |
| 05:54.01 | pronto | then again the n900 has one of the best cell phone camerss i've seen |
| 05:57.28 | psycho_oreos | I've heard better cameras are on other phones apart from N900 but meh |
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| 06:04.18 | Kilroo | I think I recall Nokia had one Symbian phone with an 8 megapixel camera, and I think one other phone matched that and someone put out one with a 12...those are the only ones better than the n900's I recall hearing about. |
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| 06:15.26 | psycho_oreos | N8 has 12MP camera iirc |
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| 07:45.01 | robbiethe1st | Hello all |
| 08:04.29 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@f053145193.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 08:05.55 | robbiethe1st | Hm, so I'm messing with HEN, and a serial adaptor, and I can't quite get it to work. Dmesg reports: "pl2303 ttyUSB0: pl2303_open - failed submitting read urb, error -19" |
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| 08:37.15 | robbiethe1st | *phew*. good. I just made a big mistake, but fortunately it didn't damage anything. I'm /very/ glad now that the n900's charger's rated for 20V maximum imput. |
| 08:37.28 | robbiethe1st | ...Because I just plugged it into a 12V source accidentally |
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| 08:52.38 | cityligh1s | so its sunday in munchen |
| 08:53.09 | *** part/#maemo {Sergiu} (srg@95.75.109.88) |
| 08:53.41 | dm8tbr | I believe it's sunday pretty much everywhere else on this planet by now too. |
| 08:57.28 | cityligh1s | well I wasnt around this channel much |
| 08:57.50 | cityligh1s | and there where a few ppl from munich here |
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| 08:58.26 | cityligh1s | I am now seeking a breakfest place |
| 08:58.32 | cityligh1s | any advice? |
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| 09:02.03 | dm8tbr | haven't been down there in a few years |
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| 09:28.20 | Shapeshifter | cityLights: dude |
| 09:28.31 | Shapeshifter | cityLights: sorry for not answering the PMs, I've been on travels through asia. |
| 09:28.35 | Shapeshifter | I'm back now. |
| 09:28.36 | Shapeshifter | ^^ |
| 09:29.06 | Cor-Ai | awsome |
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| 09:31.21 | psycho_oreos | any of you guys that never used USB networking before? if so, can you please pastebin me your /etc/network/interfaces file? |
| 09:34.55 | Cor-Ai | psycho_oreos: http://pastebin.com/mvUDDNPt |
| 09:35.30 | psycho_oreos | Cor-Ai, thanks (apologies for that PM thingy :) got sick of random people PMing without permission) |
| 09:35.50 | Cor-Ai | psycho_oreos: haha np! |
| 09:43.18 | psycho_oreos | Cor-Ai, creating a patch file to make my life a little easier :) |
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| 09:48.03 | Itschue | yeeaahaa |
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| 10:03.13 | cityligh1s | ok I am back |
| 10:03.26 | cityligh1s | great wether in munchen |
| 10:04.42 | MohammadAG | anyone good at C? |
| 10:05.46 | MohammadAG | dbusdispatcher.cpp: In member function 'void Maemo::DBusDispatcher::setupDBus()': |
| 10:05.48 | MohammadAG | dbusdispatcher.cpp:474: error: 'g_main_context_get_thread_default' was not declared in this scope |
| 10:06.00 | MohammadAG | I can't figure out why I get that, even though glib.h is included |
| 10:07.22 | psycho_oreos | haha I know very little C, but afaict that's C++ you are meddling around there. Of course its only different in terms of OOL usage between both |
| 10:08.27 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, g_main_context_whatever is glib/C stuff |
| 10:08.52 | MohammadAG | ii libglib2.0-dev 2.20.3-1maemo5+0m5 Development files for the GLib library |
| 10:08.55 | MohammadAG | crap :/ |
| 10:09.02 | MohammadAG | Qt 4.8 requires headers from 2.22 |
| 10:09.21 | psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, no what I meant was the filename :) that's the only thing I can see how they different but apart from that I know very little C let alone to tell much of the difference between C and C++ coding styles |
| 10:10.07 | psycho_oreos | in other words I'm only picking out negligible issues that one usually wouldn't fuss too much over |
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| 10:12.19 | MohammadAG | copying over what compiled |
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| 10:20.11 | chem|st | goooooooog mooorning maemo |
| 10:20.27 | MohammadAG | http://i51.tinypic.com/eajhom.jpg didn't turn out to be a stupid idea after all |
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| 10:30.10 | psycho_oreos | hah! revisiting the old hack I got to get ja_JP to work on that tmo thread shows how vague I was back then :| |
| 10:32.12 | chem|st | READY! FIGHT! talk about abill in closed forums started off again |
| 10:35.06 | robbiethe1st | Closed forums? |
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| 10:41.07 | NIN101 | leaked :P |
| 10:41.20 | SpeedEvil | uu |
| 10:41.28 | SpeedEvil | sighs at keyboards. |
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| 10:45.57 | chem|st | robbiethe1st: we mods have an invisible forum to discuss&track issues (not only people) |
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| 10:46.54 | chem|st | robbiethe1st: primary goal is to act similar and as group and track infractions |
| 10:47.56 | robbiethe1st | Makes sense... |
| 10:48.16 | chem|st | barely used but helpfull in some cases |
| 10:48.43 | robbiethe1st | Yea; like mod forums everywhere |
| 10:49.03 | robbiethe1st | Now that I know they exist, now I just need to become a mod ;) |
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| 10:50.02 | chem|st | robbiethe1st: they aren't very interessting |
| 10:50.28 | robbiethe1st | True enough I suppose. |
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| 11:14.49 | compengi | can i install maemo sdk without scratchbox? |
| 11:16.42 | MohammadAG | no |
| 11:16.48 | lcuk | compengi, that is like a cream egg without the creme |
| 11:16.53 | lcuk | cream |
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| 11:24.07 | MoonTiger | hi guys :) |
| 11:24.16 | MoonTiger | no MUFC fans here i hope :) |
| 11:24.44 | psycho_oreos | MUFC? |
| 11:24.51 | MoonTiger | manchester united |
| 11:24.54 | MohammadAG | Man U I guess |
| 11:25.17 | MohammadAG | not a fan of barrcelona, so ... ;P |
| 11:25.20 | MoonTiger | i went to a local bar to watch the game and the ppl went crazy :) |
| 11:25.38 | BCMM | given the level of geek in here, i would predict a greater than average proportion of people who do not support a football team |
| 11:25.52 | MoonTiger | me either but the night was a fun night |
| 11:25.55 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 11:26.40 | MoonTiger | well anyways... geek stuff |
| 11:26.56 | MoonTiger | how do i see the output from ULOG_DEBUG_L in sb? |
| 11:27.11 | BCMM | doesn't maemo SDK typically refer to scratchbox? |
| 11:27.38 | psycho_oreos | no I hardly watch football, let alone any sports :P |
| 11:27.50 | psycho_oreos | goes back to getting ja_JP locales to work |
| 11:30.12 | BCMM | out of interest, what other kinds of ja_ exist? |
| 11:31.52 | psycho_oreos | none |
| 11:32.38 | psycho_oreos | ja is just Japanese literally.. and the locales weren't ported for use with PR1.3, so there's lots of things one needs to amend to get it to work properly (even though the translation itself is rather incomplete) |
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| 11:41.23 | MoonTiger | anybody have an idea how i can see the output of ULOG_DEBUG_L ? |
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| 11:46.55 | alterego | contemplates deleting his TMO account |
| 11:49.56 | MohammadAG | alterego, you can't do that |
| 11:50.10 | alterego | Watch me :P |
| 11:54.16 | psycho_oreos | any of you guys created locales before? I need to figure out apart from regenerating locale-archive, what is required to get Language & region (under Settings) for the locales to show up? I'm sure the obvious solution is reboot but other international locales have managed to have their entry and I'm sure without requiring reboot |
| 11:55.39 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, there's a command for it, I remember it when I helped with the ar-sy locale |
| 11:56.37 | MohammadAG | Psi, |
| 11:56.41 | MohammadAG | err, sorry, psycho_oreos |
| 11:56.42 | MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:~# add_remove_language |
| 11:56.43 | MohammadAG | Usage: add_remove_language [remove|add] language_CODE |
| 11:57.19 | psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, hmm I'll give that a try, thanks a bunch! |
| 11:58.24 | psycho_oreos | hmm doesn't quite work lol, says the language is in the system. I guess that might just be the frontend to localesdef -a |
| 11:59.45 | psycho_oreos | thing is that Device Language shows up only 3 entries [English (United Kingdom), English (United States of America) and Français (France)] |
| 12:08.40 | psycho_oreos | bah thanks for the heads up MohammadAG, I had a poke at it. I didn't get far, stringed the binary to try and source its roots and its pointed to gconf. Checked gconf for any possible clues but got nothing lol |
| 12:09.02 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, do you have your language under /usr/share/locale/? |
| 12:09.09 | MohammadAG | with a code like this xx_XX |
| 12:09.21 | psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, yup and also in /opt/maemo/usr/share/locale |
| 12:10.10 | psycho_oreos | its ja_JP, I regenerated locale-archive via: localedef -f UTF-8 -i ja_JP ja_JP.utf-8 |
| 12:10.56 | psycho_oreos | on my other N900, without regenerating locale-archive or even installing n900-extra-locales-jajp I get way more options inside Device Language |
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| 12:11.57 | psycho_oreos | it is funny to note that the locale is mentioned in gconf, for me it appears alongside with zh_CN,zh_HK,zh_TW |
| 12:13.20 | psycho_oreos | is thinking about trying the most dumbest method but probably the foolproof method of checking if that locales will be available.. that is to reboot the device. |
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| 12:22.12 | psycho_oreos | nope that failed.. wonder what I did historically lol |
| 12:22.45 | RiD | You're talking to yourself? :o |
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| 12:26.00 | psycho_oreos | yes, I'm having such a great time creating a monologue. Must be becoming a broken record player :þ |
| 12:27.19 | alterego | has the wetab os running on his exo :) |
| 12:28.09 | psycho_oreos | wetab? exo? |
| 12:29.20 | alterego | Now if only I could find an xterm |
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| 12:31.45 | RiD | has double vision. |
| 12:33.55 | RiD | The funny thing of this IRC chat is that there are loads of people connected, but most of them are sleeping (??) |
| 12:34.06 | RiD | Sorry, i mean IRC channel* |
| 12:35.25 | dm8tbr | no, but why should we all fill the channel with meaningless noise. you're new to IRC aren't you? |
| 12:35.26 | psycho_oreos | there are bots, there are people who live in different timezones and there are those with whom are preoccupied with whatever they are doing to fill their time |
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| 12:36.45 | psycho_oreos | if we're all active, I'm sure this channel would be noisy as hell, your questions would be scrolled out of your site in no time.. and if someone posted an answer during that busy time, you'll have fun scrolling up to see what was the answer |
| 12:36.53 | psycho_oreos | s/site/sight/ |
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| 12:59.21 | RiD | Hehe, that makes sense. Yes i'm a bit new to IRC's, I've only been on gaming IRCs and they are totally different (it's usually a mess) |
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| 13:16.07 | cityligh1s | so , is there anyone in munich? |
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| 13:17.07 | psycho_oreos | I wish I was |
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| 13:57.03 | cityligh1s | dont know why I keep getting disconected |
| 13:57.38 | cityligh1s | anyway I am using o2 hdspa and its fine |
| 13:57.40 | cityligh1s | love sip |
| 13:57.50 | cityligh1s | ppl can call me in over this voip |
| 13:58.16 | cityligh1s | ~seen lardman |
| 13:58.21 | infobot | lardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 50m 26s ago, saying: 'night all'. |
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| 14:15.28 | mr_jrt | Arrg. I seem to have invoked the |
| 14:15.44 | mr_jrt | N900 boot louckup |
| 14:16.07 | mr_jrt | Brief dots...then backlit blackness |
| 14:17.03 | mr_jrt | Is there anyway to see what the actual problem is? |
| 14:21.29 | cehteh | mr_jrt: power kernel? |
| 14:24.16 | mr_jrt | 47 |
| 14:25.36 | Choom | I have that issue sometimes, but it's consistent and I've had it ever since I bought the phone |
| 14:25.41 | Choom | it never boots the first time |
| 14:25.50 | Choom | only the second |
| 14:27.29 | mr_jrt | Only thing I've done that's even remotely dodgy was to install syslog, then uninstall it. I then moved /var/log to /opt/var/log and added a symlink to prevent rootfs filling up if I forgot to remove syslog next time. |
| 14:30.43 | psycho_oreos | I think that's where you borked it, I've done that before |
| 14:30.56 | mr_jrt | Reflashing isn't a big problem...but I'd really like the "/home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger" directory. I'm guessing if I reflash the rootfs, that wipes that out? |
| 14:31.35 | mr_jrt | ...in hindsight, the optify log should have probably set of alarm bells that the logs can't go on another partition as there aren't any for that log |
| 14:31.52 | mr_jrt | (when it starts up) |
| 14:33.22 | psycho_oreos | reflashing fiasco/combined shouldn't affect /home/user |
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| 14:52.36 | alterego | just purchased a mini HDMI-C -> HDMI-A for his exo :) |
| 14:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | burp |
| 14:53.21 | mr_jrt | How right you are. Phew. |
| 14:53.59 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: there's an interesting meego project you may be interested in. |
| 14:54.03 | alterego | Hardware related |
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| 14:54.13 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 14:54.26 | alterego | There's been some talk exploring the possibility of creating a community driven device. |
| 14:54.42 | mr_jrt | Ironically, I was avoiding backupmenu on my main N900 as I didn't want anything that could compliate boot and break things. Might have to make another exception now ;) |
| 14:54.47 | alterego | With an investor .. |
| 14:54.56 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha |
| 14:55.10 | DocScrutinizer | been there done that, 1000 times too often |
| 14:55.26 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, count on me |
| 14:55.29 | alterego | We have an investor |
| 14:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | we had as well, at OM |
| 14:55.42 | alterego | But yeah, thought you might be interested. |
| 14:55.59 | alterego | Still very early days yet, I'll keep you posted as things start shaping. |
| 14:56.21 | DocScrutinizer | thanks a lot, very interesting |
| 14:57.26 | DocScrutinizer | you're lucky, I'm vacant atm ;-D |
| 14:57.44 | alterego | Currently I think the idea is to use some reference platform, but still unclear. |
| 14:58.16 | alterego | Oh, definitely ARM too ;) |
| 14:58.21 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 14:59.06 | DocScrutinizer | if you want to go not tooooo adventurous, then even keep the arch (OMAP) |
| 14:59.18 | alterego | I think I'll be pushing OMAP for sure |
| 14:59.38 | alterego | We need to reduce the work involved in keeping an adaptation N900 like |
| 14:59.55 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:00.04 | DocScrutinizer | sensible |
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| 15:01.22 | MoonTiger | hi guys :) |
| 15:01.59 | MoonTiger | can anybody point me somewhere that explains how to see the DEBUG messages while my app is running in sb? |
| 15:09.11 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: is your investor prepared to go up to the 10^6USD range? |
| 15:10.03 | alterego | I'm gonna leave that to him. |
| 15:10.06 | DocScrutinizer | anything less is prone to fail |
| 15:10.16 | alterego | We're not looking at a mass market device. |
| 15:10.29 | alterego | We're looking at a developer handset platform |
| 15:10.39 | alterego | So maybe 10-100k units |
| 15:10.40 | DocScrutinizer | the issue with hw is that mass market doesn't really make the big diff |
| 15:10.42 | alterego | (I'm guessing here) |
| 15:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | 10k are already MP btw |
| 15:11.31 | alterego | :) |
| 15:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | the rest is just feeding the sales dudes with enough cookies |
| 15:11.41 | alterego | Well, hardware isn't exactly my speciality ;) |
| 15:12.07 | DocScrutinizer | the magic limit is somewhere between 10 and 1000 |
| 15:12.10 | DocScrutinizer | units |
| 15:12.41 | alterego | He obviously wants to make his money back, but I don't think he's interested in profit |
| 15:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | more next to 500 than to 50 |
| 15:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | I got a lil bit of RL experience with this stuff - you're free to ping me (or send a flight ticket) anytime |
| 15:14.03 | alterego | :) |
| 15:14.17 | alterego | Like I said, early days, but you didn't pop into my mind when we were discussing this. |
| 15:16.41 | DocScrutinizer | that's been a failure. I probably even could bring in the beter 10% of OM experience staff |
| 15:17.55 | DocScrutinizer | building hw is an ongoing process over there, and there are some contacts and cute people, which I might tease |
| 15:19.37 | DocScrutinizer | ( of curse me being the cutest of them all, when it comes to designing hw ;-P ) |
| 15:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: you should talk to your peers/group/whatever now, as many really fundamental and hurting conceptual ooopses happen at early planning stage |
| 15:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: isn't this a topic for #meego-arm, #meego, or a private /query ? |
| 15:23.41 | alterego | Probably, I was just mentioning it, you're the one that started getting into a deep discussion :P |
| 15:23.41 | DocScrutinizer | or any ##channel |
| 15:24.01 | alterego | I'll keep you informed, the real discussions will probably start next week. |
| 15:24.09 | alterego | And in the public |
| 15:24.09 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: you got me excited about it |
| 15:24.16 | alterego | So I'll ping you when something happens |
| 15:24.22 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
| 15:24.32 | alterego | Anyway, I'm gonna play with my exo |
| 15:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 â |
| 15:26.36 | alterego | exo pc slate :P |
| 15:26.43 | alterego | aka wetab reference tablet |
| 15:29.29 | mr_jrt | <cityligh1s> If you mean disconnected from IRC, then I started getting it a lot on here. I found something saying that Freenode doesn't do the ping/pong thing properly, and they supplied a script that pings on connect or somesuch to keep the connection active. Fixed it for me. |
| 15:31.39 | mr_jrt | Ah, here it is: http://forums.mirc.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/37425/page/1/fpart/3#Post37472 |
| 15:33.00 | DocScrutinizer | duh, what? |
| 15:33.22 | Choom | the old ircd did not ping clients |
| 15:34.03 | Choom | you ghosts would stay online forever if they were idling outside of channels, or at least until wallops or any kind of global messages were sent |
| 15:34.12 | Choom | s/you/so |
| 15:35.21 | mr_jrt | I dunno. Not much of an IRCer. Just using an old mIRC version I have around. I was getting disconnected every 5 minutes or so...which grew very tiresome when looking for activity after much idling. |
| 15:35.22 | theoriginalgri | alterego: How is the exopc display when using in the garden (shade)? |
| 15:36.08 | alterego | I've not really tested it, hang on |
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| 15:54.42 | Cor-Ai | psycho_oreos: haha ok, |
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| 15:58.19 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: isn't it standard for *each* end to ping the other with keep-alives? |
| 15:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | if only to keep sessions alive on NAT |
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| 16:40.20 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: I have no clue, but the old ircd didn't, and along with causing ghosts to stay online forever it also caused problems with NAT; the current ircd doesn't have that issue anymore, though as I understand it the pings ae kinda low freq so they may still cause issues with NAT |
| 16:42.13 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, aiui they changed ping interval for freenode lately (some 12 months ago), from 10 -> 2 min. Or was it other way around? |
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| 16:42.50 | Sicelo | Choom: i don't know too much about irc, but every pc in swaziland is behind nat, afaict, and i have never had any issues |
| 16:43.13 | Sicelo | except with sending/receivering files via dcc |
| 16:43.15 | Choom | if you are on active channels it is unlikely to affect you |
| 16:43.35 | Choom | the problems only manifest on idle connections |
| 16:44.00 | FIQ|n900 | Hi. Now it's the 2nd time a SMS don't arrive at my side. Just wonder before i proceed, is this N900 or my provider's fault (or is it possible that it can be any of them)? |
| 16:44.29 | Sicelo | your sms center number correctly set? |
| 16:44.43 | FIQ|n900 | It works, not just always, so yeah |
| 16:46.08 | FIQ|n900 | Also, one time following thing happened recently: I got a SMS, readed it, etc, all fine. Then N900 crash rebooted (as happens sometimes), and I ended up getting it again (but I didn't end up having 2 of them - the first just disappeared) |
| 16:52.40 | Sicelo | idk FIQ|n900 |
| 16:53.06 | Sicelo | what did u do 1st timeto make it work fine again/ |
| 16:53.37 | Sicelo | /s/timeto/time to/ |
| 16:53.46 | Sicelo | s/timeto/time to/ |
| 16:54.30 | Sicelo | yay! |
| 17:15.00 | Macer | er |
| 17:15.11 | DocScrutinizer | FIQ: hildon-notifications use a db to pop up that "new SMS" notifier. On a crash this db might not update correctly and so the same notification show again after boot. That doesn't mean the SMS got transmitted OTA 2 times |
| 17:15.11 | Macer | hello |
| 17:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | if an SMS doesn't arrive that's usually carrier's fault |
| 17:17.19 | Necc | most providers sends out the SMS only once, whenever the device conformed the receive or not |
| 17:17.28 | DocScrutinizer | SMS also time out (sender of SMS may select an expiry period, also may request for delivery notification) |
| 17:17.59 | Necc | SMS timeout is typically weeks or even months |
| 17:18.11 | DocScrutinizer | meh, 1 week max afaik |
| 17:18.23 | Necc | operator depedent |
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| 17:18.55 | Necc | my operator stores up to 3 months (aked customer service) |
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| 17:22.26 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, my 10y-old Nokia 6210 had a setting for expiry time of SMS. Can't find anything like that on N900 - as usual :-/ |
| 17:22.57 | Necc | point of that? |
| 17:23.21 | Necc | not just N900 doesn't support such thing, same applies to my symbian devices |
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| 17:24.06 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes it feels like N900 designers just specified things they used in their own daily usage pattern, rather than looking at any sane example or spec for finding out about what's mandatory or even standard |
| 17:24.36 | DocScrutinizer | prominent example: starhash |
| 17:24.46 | DocScrutinizer | aka GSM service codes |
| 17:25.01 | DocScrutinizer | "divert on busy? WTF?!" |
| 17:25.34 | Necc | forward if no reply... |
| 17:26.07 | Necc | but hey, they made *#06# work :P |
| 17:26.15 | DocScrutinizer | pffff |
| 17:26.37 | DocScrutinizer | probably just because they'd not pass FCC cert otherwise |
| 17:27.16 | Necc | FCC checks software too? |
| 17:27.22 | DocScrutinizer | you bet |
| 17:27.34 | NIN101 | There was a pretty cool vulnerable on a Nokia Phone afaik, DoS over SMS. It caim never to the point where the Device would acknowledge the receivment of the SMS, so ones it rebooted and logged in to the GSM again, the provider would usually send the SMS again... |
| 17:28.35 | DocScrutinizer | there were several those glitches. Another one iirc was to send a SMS with a special char sequence that somehow fsckd up the phone |
| 17:28.56 | NIN101 | yes, afaik there was a talk about it on the 27c3 |
| 17:29.02 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 17:29.20 | Necc | Siemens S60... send a special SMS -> brickphone! |
| 17:30.02 | MohammadAG | ~seen Venemo |
| 17:30.06 | infobot | venemo <~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 4h 50m 19s ago, saying: '~seen zehjotkah'. |
| 17:31.05 | Necc | shall i check if on MSN? |
| 17:32.39 | DocScrutinizer | lo MohammadAG |
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| 17:42.21 | MohammadAG | hey DocScrutinizer |
| 17:42.57 | Robot101 | the dependencies on maemo are such a trainwreck, I can't install bluemaemo without some libeina crap and removing ogg support for gstreamer. boggle |
| 17:43.19 | DocScrutinizer | mmpf |
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| 17:44.15 | DocScrutinizer | now when YOU say that... |
| 17:44.30 | maybeHere | ..ooO(debian-based, allright) |
| 17:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | ...I gather it's just useless to try to help |
| 17:45.37 | DocScrutinizer | you for sure know your way around, and it's quite certainly completely wrecked if you say there are those issues |
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| 17:46.18 | Robot101 | yeah it's more, I don't quite have the energy to try and debug at the moment |
| 17:46.20 | Robot101 | something is whacked |
| 17:46.46 | DocScrutinizer | hi btw |
| 17:46.56 | Robot101 | hi o/ :) I only want bluemaemo so I can type in my details on the mac so I can buy portal 2 |
| 17:47.04 | Robot101 | now I got my projector back from repair :) |
| 17:47.18 | Robot101 | unforutnately my bluetooth kbd has run out of batteries so I'm waiting for them to recharge... |
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| 18:24.54 | MoonTiger | walks in and waves |
| 18:24.54 | MoonTiger | hi guys |
| 18:25.37 | MoonTiger | nobody home? |
| 18:25.42 | MoonTiger | sighs |
| 18:25.47 | nox- | moin MoonTiger |
| 18:26.01 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 18:26.14 | MoonTiger | you wouldnt happen to know anything about signond would you? |
| 18:26.31 | nox- | not really sorry |
| 18:27.02 | nox- | hm theres a comma missing there i guess... |
| 18:27.03 | MoonTiger | ok thnx anyways :) |
| 18:27.19 | MoonTiger | ? |
| 18:27.31 | nox- | not really, sorry |
| 18:27.33 | nox- | :) |
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| 18:35.13 | lcuk | moons at wavetiger |
| 18:39.39 | MoonTiger | hey lcuk |
| 18:39.41 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 18:39.48 | MoonTiger | just banging my head against a wall |
| 18:39.53 | MoonTiger | didnt see you |
| 18:39.56 | lcuk | :( poor wall |
| 18:39.59 | lcuk | what are you stuck with? |
| 18:40.06 | MoonTiger | sighs |
| 18:40.11 | MoonTiger | sharing plugin |
| 18:40.28 | lcuk | and what specifically is your problem with it? |
| 18:40.46 | MoonTiger | look sat the alphabeticized list of problems.... |
| 18:40.49 | MoonTiger | heh |
| 18:41.02 | MoonTiger | well right now i cant get signond to run without errors |
| 18:41.41 | lcuk | is signond something you wrote? |
| 18:41.52 | lcuk | is ignorant of what signond is |
| 18:42.24 | MoonTiger | lcuk, no its apparently the signon daemon that runs onb the actual tablets but in sbv you need to start it manually signond & |
| 18:42.28 | MoonTiger | but it fails |
| 18:42.43 | lcuk | sbv? |
| 18:42.52 | MoonTiger | sb |
| 18:42.54 | MoonTiger | sorry |
| 18:43.01 | lcuk | if it runs on the tablets it should already be running? |
| 18:43.05 | lcuk | ahh |
| 18:43.14 | MoonTiger | no according to the docs you have to start it manually |
| 18:43.15 | lcuk | so this is something you cannot test within scratchbox |
| 18:43.22 | MoonTiger | apparently you can |
| 18:43.25 | lcuk | or are having trouble testing |
| 18:43.35 | MoonTiger | the sharing set up runs but fails to send anything because of a) abouve |
| 18:44.32 | lcuk | hmm I owuld say: have you tested it on device itself |
| 18:44.43 | MoonTiger | no ... its totally not ready for that yet |
| 18:44.55 | MoonTiger | im just tryng to get it to talk to the internet |
| 18:45.56 | lcuk | ok |
| 18:46.22 | lcuk | lets go back a bit: you said "signond &" files |
| 18:46.33 | lcuk | what specific error messages do you get |
| 18:46.44 | lcuk | during the course of trying to run this |
| 18:46.45 | MoonTiger | signond[1607]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - signond: cannot setup proper DB access rights: 1 |
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| 18:46.54 | lcuk | it might be other misc random planet alignments went wrong too |
| 18:47.14 | lcuk | ok MoonTiger which user are you running it as? |
| 18:47.21 | lcuk | have you tried "fakeroot signond &" |
| 18:47.24 | lcuk | or similar? |
| 18:47.24 | MoonTiger | i try as me and as fakeroot |
| 18:47.30 | MoonTiger | both fail |
| 18:47.39 | MoonTiger | and the docs dont mention fakeroot |
| 18:48.33 | lcuk | yeah i know |
| 18:48.43 | MoonTiger | laughs |
| 18:48.44 | lcuk | hm on my scratchbox I havent even got signond |
| 18:48.49 | MoonTiger | right |
| 18:48.54 | MoonTiger | awesome hey? |
| 18:49.19 | MoonTiger | not hard to figure why nokia went so far down lately *sigh* |
| 18:49.40 | Macer | haha |
| 18:49.53 | Macer | MoonTiger: thats what i said about their horrible sdk |
| 18:49.58 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 18:50.09 | Macer | i think they just slapped it together and shoved it out there |
| 18:50.20 | Macer | even the vm image is crap |
| 18:50.27 | MoonTiger | i dont think its even finished actually |
| 18:50.37 | lcuk | well scratchbox does handle most of this stuff and the emulator does work, I have just never seen anyone playing with sharing services like htis |
| 18:50.37 | Macer | it sure isn't |
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| 18:50.43 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 18:50.51 | MoonTiger | i think they just bent over for MS and dropped everything, including their pants |
| 18:50.59 | lcuk | knows of only a couple of people who might even know |
| 18:51.11 | lcuk | but I dont know if they ever used scratchbox |
| 18:51.11 | Macer | well. they dont support maemo anymore |
| 18:51.16 | Macer | not for a long time |
| 18:51.29 | Macer | lcuk: no community sdk? |
| 18:51.36 | Macer | is it possible to make one? |
| 18:51.39 | Macer | :) |
| 18:51.42 | MoonTiger | this is why i got fed up with my N810 |
| 18:52.02 | MoonTiger | the N900 hardware is great (apaet from the usb) |
| 18:52.08 | MoonTiger | but the dev stuff? |
| 18:52.19 | lcuk | MoonTiger, what are you actually writing? |
| 18:52.21 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@201.47.25.63.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 18:52.24 | MoonTiger | i dont think ive ever tried to work with such a broken tool chain |
| 18:52.34 | Macer | heh |
| 18:52.39 | MoonTiger | i want to write a sharing plugin for my website |
| 18:53.07 | lcuk | sounds reasonable |
| 18:53.16 | lcuk | ftp uploader type thing? |
| 18:53.23 | MoonTiger | i wrote one for symbian ... one for android ... i figured the N900 should be easy enough |
| 18:53.26 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-170-68.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:53.43 | MoonTiger | http://gagfoot.com |
| 18:53.49 | MoonTiger | a piccie uploader type thing |
| 18:54.19 | lcuk | MoonTiger, I believe someone already did write a configurable one |
| 18:54.41 | MoonTiger | the pavo-pavo-pavo-whatever one? |
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| 18:55.05 | MoonTiger | but i want to write one ... it cannot be that hard |
| 18:55.16 | lcuk | I know |
| 18:55.26 | lcuk | there are a large number of sharing services though |
| 18:55.31 | MoonTiger | its kinda like my own personal hello world |
| 18:55.32 | lcuk | ie, they have somehow managed it |
| 18:55.35 | lcuk | sure |
| 18:55.41 | lcuk | everyone has their birdsong |
| 18:55.53 | MoonTiger | i have some example code but that doesnt tell me how to get f***ing signond working *sigh* |
| 18:56.25 | MoonTiger | but this is why we're geeks right? to beat our head against walls untill something sinks in :) |
| 18:56.53 | MoonTiger | lcuk, are you still debeloping for N900? |
| 18:57.00 | MoonTiger | developing too |
| 18:57.26 | lcuk | i have MeeGo n900-DE running on my n900 |
| 18:57.36 | MoonTiger | oooooooo |
| 18:57.41 | MoonTiger | hows that working out for you? |
| 18:58.07 | lcuk | I test/workon/faff/discuss/cunjure up stuff on it |
| 18:58.21 | lcuk | it is looking a hell of a lot better now than it did 6 months ago |
| 18:58.37 | MoonTiger | is it functional |
| 18:59.06 | lcuk | vsync tearing patches, meego tablet ux, real QML apps etc |
| 18:59.21 | MoonTiger | so you can use it for your main device? |
| 18:59.22 | lcuk | I keep reaching for it for tasks but not everything works |
| 18:59.26 | MoonTiger | ah |
| 19:00.02 | lcuk | I purposefully keep it within hands reach, it has gotten stable enough to perform actions |
| 19:00.20 | lcuk | and I am looking for ways to update daily (ssu) rather than having to reflash |
| 19:00.34 | theoriginalgri | oh since you're talking about qml apps ... is the flash memory of the n900 so much slower than on the iphone? If you've seen the video on youtube with qml on the iphone: it starts immediately, on my maemo n900 it loads a while |
| 19:00.37 | lcuk | because once data gets onto the device and being filled in more than "I added 3 test contacts" |
| 19:00.41 | nox- | how many device do you have lcuk? |
| 19:01.13 | nox- | devices even |
| 19:04.16 | lcuk | nox- that are in use, 2 in regular testing and 1 with broken usb |
| 19:04.36 | nox- | heh ok |
| 19:04.43 | MoonTiger | lcuk, you have the broken usb |
| 19:04.45 | MoonTiger | ? |
| 19:05.04 | nox- | yeah how do you charge that one, external charger? |
| 19:05.32 | lcuk | yeah nox-, but I need usb working for data rather than batteries |
| 19:05.39 | lcuk | MoonTiger, ^ |
| 19:05.43 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 19:05.44 | nox- | i c |
| 19:06.03 | nox- | must be lucky, my usb still works |
| 19:06.23 | lcuk | the one with broken usb was from lukes room |
| 19:06.35 | lcuk | shakes walking stick at kids |
| 19:06.42 | nox- | haha |
| 19:07.15 | *** join/#maemo perolsen (~perolsen@ti0017a380-0138.bb.online.no) |
| 19:07.32 | lcuk | MoonTiger, http://liqbase.net/20110526_002.jpg |
| 19:07.38 | lcuk | my apps scale upwards |
| 19:08.11 | MoonTiger | schweet |
| 19:08.18 | MoonTiger | thinkpad i see ;) |
| 19:09.01 | lcuk | hmm that has broken screen atm |
| 19:09.07 | lcuk | cannot wander round with that one |
| 19:09.12 | MoonTiger | shame ... i only use thinkpads |
| 19:09.20 | lcuk | I replaced the screen ok |
| 19:09.29 | lcuk | several hundred parts |
| 19:09.33 | lcuk | scattered on bed |
| 19:09.34 | *** join/#maemo perolsen (~perolsen@ti0017a380-0138.bb.online.no) |
| 19:09.43 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 19:09.44 | lcuk | but the inverter is broke too |
| 19:09.53 | MoonTiger | they dont cost much tho right? |
| 19:09.58 | lcuk | no |
| 19:10.06 | lcuk | I hope it is the inverter anyway |
| 19:10.13 | lcuk | if it is the ribbon cable that is worse |
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| 19:18.23 | lcuk | TheXception|off, please show me where QML running on iphone? |
| 19:18.58 | lcuk | since QML is just a data set, if the QMLlauncher is running already and you open a small test, it should not be slow |
| 19:18.59 | ruskie | hmm wanted to use my old n95 for gps and music box type stuff on my bike with no sim... but can't get any gps lockon... fun... :( |
| 19:19.18 | lcuk | but if you are loading/opening the whole QML infrastructure to open a 1kb QML file it is understandable |
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| 19:20.43 | dm8tbr | ruskie: most likely the gps chipset is deaf as a stone without access to AGPS data |
| 19:21.07 | *** join/#maemo Tsarpf (~Tsarpf@GGYYYMYDCXXX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:21.12 | ruskie | dm8tbr, or the offline mode is keeping it offline |
| 19:21.46 | ruskie | so on to the next question... anyone managed to make an app for the N900 that would expose the GPS through bluetooth? so that one could pair it with other bluetooth devices? |
| 19:21.58 | jacekowski | lcuk: can you scale out as well? |
| 19:22.38 | jacekowski | lcuk: what have you broken? |
| 19:23.01 | MoonTiger | goes back to fighting signond |
| 19:23.15 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@pool-96-250-166-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:23.42 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 19:24.09 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, any ideas about signond ? |
| 19:24.09 | lcuk | jacekowski, screen got damaged on the thinkpad |
| 19:24.30 | jacekowski | as in no backlight? |
| 19:24.35 | jacekowski | or nothing at all |
| 19:24.45 | *** join/#maemo xnt14 (~xnt14@unaffiliated/xnt14) |
| 19:24.47 | MohammadAG | What's signond? |
| 19:25.19 | MoonTiger | inside of sb |
| 19:25.23 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71414 |
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| 19:29.46 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: for an occasional flashing it will "just work" if you take care about proper ESD protection (discharge all static before connecting... first touch metal to metal of both devices to connect) |
| 19:31.05 | MohammadAG | no, I meant what is it |
| 19:31.22 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, next CSSU will make you less worried about the CSSU |
| 19:31.34 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 19:31.45 | MohammadAG | which should tonight |
| 19:31.48 | MohammadAG | should be* |
| 19:33.59 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, its the sharing service sign on daemon |
| 19:34.17 | MohammadAG | oh, no idea |
| 19:34.21 | MohammadAG | frals might know |
| 19:37.28 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, |
| 19:37.31 | lcuk | .. |
| 19:37.33 | lcuk | nice |
| 19:39.24 | *** join/#maemo xd13 (~xd13@ool-44c20683.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: It's been a sure bet Nokia needs access to those signals during production process, without mating that friggin micro-USB |
| 19:40.36 | DocScrutinizer | I mentioned that here in this chan prior to that thread showing up, IIRC |
| 19:40.59 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host107-89-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:41.11 | ruskie | hmm nice there is a bluetooth gps tool for the n90 |
| 19:41.16 | ruskie | erm n900 |
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| 19:41.37 | ds3 | bluetooth gps tool ? where? |
| 19:42.24 | ruskie | as in to make the n900 act as a bluetooth/usb/network gps device |
| 19:42.33 | ruskie | columbus |
| 19:42.40 | ruskie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67276 |
| 19:42.46 | FIQ | I will speak to my carrier if it happens again then (about SMS receviving problem) |
| 19:43.08 | MoonTiger | oh hey lcuk how do i get debug messages to show up on the terminal window? |
| 19:43.21 | ds3 | Nice |
| 19:43.29 | ds3 | ruskie, I haven't seen that before. thanks! |
| 19:43.37 | ruskie | I just started looking for it |
| 19:43.57 | ruskie | now I might actually be able to use the n95 as a cheap display thingy for the phone while the n900 is nicely tucked somewhere more safe |
| 19:47.16 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@80.83.238.72) |
| 19:47.24 | MoonTiger | f**k this is frustrating |
| 19:47.46 | *** join/#maemo ab (~ab@fossplanet.ru) |
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| 19:55.15 | MoonTiger | how do i get an xterm on the sb emulator? |
| 19:55.54 | cehteh | osso_xsterm |
| 19:56.04 | MoonTiger | yah but how do i install it? |
| 19:56.13 | shanttu | I ran into unmet depencies when upgrading smscon editor, any help? http://pastebin.com/qLZkuwum |
| 19:56.18 | MohammadAG | why do you need an xterm |
| 19:56.25 | MohammadAG | just use the scratchbox shell |
| 19:56.27 | MoonTiger | to see if there are some files missing |
| 19:56.32 | MoonTiger | right |
| 19:56.35 | MoonTiger | slaps head |
| 19:56.37 | MoonTiger | thnx |
| 19:56.52 | MohammadAG | cehteh, osso-xterm isn't installed since you don't need it |
| 19:57.21 | cehteh | heh .. could be its long ago that i used the sdk only installed it 2 days ago |
| 19:57.25 | cehteh | (again) |
| 19:57.50 | *** join/#maemo Itschue (~Itschue@p57AD3BDD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:58.02 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, how do i get log messages to show when my app runs? |
| 19:58.23 | MohammadAG | if your app logs they should just show there |
| 19:58.28 | MohammadAG | it's a normal shell |
| 19:58.28 | MoonTiger | where? |
| 19:58.36 | MohammadAG | scratchbox shell |
| 19:58.40 | MoonTiger | nothing shows up |
| 19:58.52 | lcuk | MohammadAG, afaik MoonTiger is making a sharing plugin thingie |
| 19:58.57 | *** join/#maemo klasu_ (~klasu@a88-115-200-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:58.58 | lcuk | ie not a normal urnning app instance |
| 19:59.04 | lcuk | running even |
| 19:59.15 | MoonTiger | no lcuk MoonTiger is breaking this desk up with my head |
| 19:59.18 | cehteh | MoonTiger: what kind of app? C/C++/Qt? |
| 19:59.25 | MoonTiger | c |
| 19:59.29 | MohammadAG | oh, so how do you run it then? |
| 19:59.42 | MoonTiger | sharing setup in control panel |
| 19:59.48 | MoonTiger | add new account |
| 19:59.51 | MohammadAG | cehteh, I'd guess C, since that's the only API available |
| 19:59.53 | cehteh | checkout nobug.pipapo.org my debugging and logging library :) .. i once compiled it on the n900 |
| 20:00.02 | MohammadAG | (there are C++ wrappers but I haven't seen anyone using them) |
| 20:00.12 | cehteh | worked but i dont want to package it by myself |
| 20:00.24 | MoonTiger | cehteh, is it ready to use on the n900 now? |
| 20:00.31 | cehteh | should be |
| 20:00.37 | lcuk | MoonTiger, :( please do not break the desk, seek to duplicate one of the existing open source sharing things |
| 20:00.39 | cehteh | if not blame me i'll fix then |
| 20:00.49 | lcuk | fmms is python and has bindings to sharing service |
| 20:00.51 | cehteh | you just have to build and install it |
| 20:00.52 | lcuk | I believe |
| 20:01.02 | MohammadAG | i thought the syslog is shown on stdout/err |
| 20:01.29 | MoonTiger | lcuk, yes i am doing exactly that but the signond thing is broken and is preventing me from moving forward |
| 20:01.44 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, well i must be doing something wrong then |
| 20:01.46 | lcuk | test on device |
| 20:01.54 | lcuk | I always did all my testing directly there anyway |
| 20:02.08 | lcuk | did not understand scratchbox much |
| 20:02.21 | MoonTiger | lcuk, but even if it "runs" on the device i still need to be able to test it on the sb |
| 20:02.23 | MohammadAG | never uses X86 scratchbox |
| 20:02.37 | MoonTiger | sighs |
| 20:02.51 | MoonTiger | im beginning to think installing gcc on the n900 is the easiest way to go |
| 20:02.52 | cehteh | i should install the SDK on the device too .. chroot |
| 20:02.57 | MohammadAG | Actually I did use it, before I had the device |
| 20:03.05 | MohammadAG | cehteh, I haz that |
| 20:03.13 | MohammadAG | way too slow for Qt apps though |
| 20:03.29 | lcuk | MoonTiger, :) it is easy, however the rest of the sdk (especially all hildon dependencies) makes it non trivial |
| 20:03.43 | MoonTiger | ok i will start with a simpler regular app to make sure i understand the tool chain |
| 20:03.47 | lcuk | MohammadAG, you did actual testing of qt apps on device didn't you? |
| 20:03.52 | cehteh | MohammadAG: would be nice to make a package out of it somehow, because i am lazy :P |
| 20:04.14 | cehteh | i dont program in Qt anyways :) |
| 20:04.18 | MoonTiger | cehteh, your debug lib ... it runs as a service? |
| 20:04.21 | MohammadAG | cehteh, asked X-Fade about it once, he didn't reply |
| 20:04.31 | MohammadAG | We need Nokia's approval to reupload their binaries |
| 20:04.33 | cehteh | MoonTiger: nope you link it to your application |
| 20:04.41 | MohammadAG | and installing binaries on the device is a b**** |
| 20:04.45 | MoonTiger | ok so i just build the lib and inc the headers as usua |
| 20:04.51 | MoonTiger | l |
| 20:04.51 | MohammadAG | lcuk, only compiled them as a benchmark |
| 20:05.01 | cehteh | internally it logs everything to a ringbuffer (which you may turn persistent) |
| 20:05.16 | MoonTiger | can i see the log messages somewhere easy? |
| 20:05.25 | cehteh | and then it dispatches logging to whatever you like, console, debugger, files, syslog etc |
| 20:05.25 | MohammadAG | cehteh, I think lcuk's liqflow compiled in 3 seconds? |
| 20:05.35 | MoonTiger | sweet |
| 20:05.41 | MoonTiger | i will give it a go |
| 20:05.49 | lcuk | MohammadAG, and the qt app took nearly 2minutes I recall? |
| 20:06.06 | MohammadAG | 3 or 4 |
| 20:06.11 | cehteh | controlled by a env var NOBUG_LOG=something:TRACE,somethingelse:NOTICE@syslog etc |
| 20:06.12 | MohammadAG | that was my mediaplayer |
| 20:06.57 | MoonTiger | cehteh, so "set NOBUG_LOG=STDOUT" ? |
| 20:07.03 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.123.122) |
| 20:07.20 | MohammadAG | would use export |
| 20:07.29 | cehteh | NOBUG_LOG=something:TRACE .. if you do a 'alpha' build it logs to console |
| 20:07.30 | *** join/#maemo kirma (~jkirma@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) |
| 20:07.30 | MoonTiger | cehteh, you wrote this? |
| 20:07.42 | cehteh | it tries to give sane defaults |
| 20:07.44 | cehteh | yes |
| 20:07.48 | MoonTiger | wow |
| 20:08.13 | MoonTiger | i am ashamed to admit it but most of my c/c++ experience is from windows |
| 20:08.13 | cehteh | where 'something' is a flag/channel you have to define |
| 20:08.22 | MoonTiger | im not used to the gcc tool chains |
| 20:08.29 | *** join/#maemo gn00b (~gn00b@71-223-126-81.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 20:08.45 | cehteh | MoonTiger: i am prolly later into cinema and back then in a few hour if you have any questions, you can nag me or subscribe its mailinglist |
| 20:08.46 | *** join/#maemo cityligh1s (~niv@89.204.153.163) |
| 20:08.52 | cityligh1s | hi again |
| 20:08.57 | MoonTiger | thnx |
| 20:08.59 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 20:08.59 | lcuk | MohammadAG, it was the one album art test app wasnt it? |
| 20:09.20 | cityligh1s | ~seen lardman |
| 20:09.28 | infobot | lardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22h 1m 33s ago, saying: 'night all'. |
| 20:09.28 | MohammadAG | lcuk, nah, half working mediaplayer |
| 20:09.49 | cehteh | cityligh1s: tomorrow evening? :) |
| 20:09.59 | *** join/#maemo mesx (~mesx@89-172-225-216.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 20:10.15 | cityligh1s | I seek help at muchen, can anyone recomend a cool place to dine? |
| 20:10.33 | cehteh | hofbräuhaus? :) |
| 20:10.37 | cehteh | j/k |
| 20:10.40 | cityligh1s | cehteh: hi there |
| 20:10.50 | cehteh | i dont know munich well |
| 20:11.10 | cityligh1s | time passed so fast, and 2morrow I am traveling to your town |
| 20:11.17 | MoonTiger | goes off to get some bread and honey |
| 20:12.04 | cityligh1s | can you send me your number or gtalk? |
| 20:12.19 | cehteh | skype .. 'cehteh' |
| 20:12.21 | cityligh1s | there whee sevral ppl from munchen here |
| 20:12.43 | cehteh | my lumiera co developer is in munich |
| 20:13.03 | cehteh | cityligh1s: you use skype? |
| 20:13.39 | cityligh1s | yes. min |
| 20:13.45 | cehteh | i see :) |
| 20:17.57 | *** part/#maemo b-man` (~b-man@50.51.14.39) |
| 20:18.07 | MoonTiger | i think i need to go back to basics and learn the autotools stuff |
| 20:18.33 | cityligh1s | does anyone remeber how is from munchen here? |
| 20:18.46 | cehteh | MoonTiger: maybe you try scons, its little better |
| 20:18.57 | cehteh | i use autotools too, just a old bad habit |
| 20:19.04 | MoonTiger | cehteh, does it run on maemo? |
| 20:19.14 | cehteh | its python prolly yes |
| 20:19.36 | MoonTiger | i think i should actually learn autotools tho ... its used everywhere |
| 20:19.45 | cehteh | ok :) |
| 20:19.49 | MoonTiger | i dont like not understanding my tools properly |
| 20:19.58 | MohammadAG | doesn't know auto* stuff |
| 20:20.04 | MohammadAG | manual makefiles ftw |
| 20:20.08 | cehteh | well i doubt anyone knows autotools fully :P |
| 20:20.13 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, yah all that |
| 20:20.34 | cehteh | if you only program for one platform (or very similar ones) then plain makefiles are nice |
| 20:20.39 | MoonTiger | but trying to write a simple app requires all that configure.am and configure.in etc etc |
| 20:20.54 | cehteh | if you can define to use 'gnu make' then you have quite some mightly stuff |
| 20:20.55 | MohammadAG | when I see autoconf.in I just run all auto* tools and hope it works |
| 20:20.57 | cityligh1s | MohammadAG: hi, did you that lardman offered to help port waze to maemo? |
| 20:21.06 | MohammadAG | What's waze? |
| 20:21.17 | *** join/#maemo b-man` (~b-man@50.51.14.39) |
| 20:21.17 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, me too but when it doesnt you're screwed |
| 20:21.35 | MoonTiger | waze is a crowd sourced gos navigator app |
| 20:21.39 | MoonTiger | gps |
| 20:21.43 | cehteh | autotools is a bit awkward |
| 20:21.44 | MohammadAG | MohammadAG, hasn't happened to me yet |
| 20:21.44 | MohammadAG | wtf xchat |
| 20:22.05 | cityligh1s | waze.com road navigation with traffic jam calc |
| 20:22.32 | MoonTiger | cehteh, th whole ./configure ... make ... make install is autotools yes? |
| 20:22.42 | cehteh | thats a free project (waze?) |
| 20:22.43 | cityligh1s | MoonTiger: how do YOU know waze? |
| 20:23.01 | MoonTiger | cityligh1s, its on a lot of platforms and i read about a lot of stuff :) |
| 20:23.03 | cityligh1s | yes! |
| 20:23.09 | cehteh | MoonTiger: uhm ... thats what the user sees .. as developer there is shockingly much more brokeness |
| 20:23.11 | MohammadAG | that's for israel? |
| 20:23.30 | cityligh1s | recently also for germany |
| 20:23.36 | cityligh1s | and the us |
| 20:23.39 | MoonTiger | cehteh, do you know a good resource for learning as much as i need to know? |
| 20:23.46 | cityligh1s | and australia |
| 20:23.49 | cehteh | MoonTiger: take a look like nobug is set up, its a relative small and straight project so you can learn from that |
| 20:23.58 | MoonTiger | ok thnx |
| 20:24.02 | cehteh | and it uses 'non-recursive' builds thats really the way to go |
| 20:24.06 | MohammadAG | cityligh1s, what does it offer that a normal maps app doesn't? |
| 20:24.18 | MoonTiger | ponders recursive builds and shdders |
| 20:24.24 | cehteh | ('include' other files instead SUBDIRS=) |
| 20:24.30 | cityligh1s | its free and updated by the users |
| 20:24.36 | cehteh | the SUBDIRS= things is verboten :P |
| 20:24.51 | MoonTiger | ok good ... trying to read that stuff is a nightmare |
| 20:25.03 | cehteh | autotools is :) |
| 20:25.13 | cehteh | and i am by no means expert with it |
| 20:25.13 | MohammadAG | cityligh1s, besides that? Google Maps is also free |
| 20:25.22 | cityligh1s | must find a nice place to have dinner and say good buy to munchen |
| 20:25.39 | MoonTiger | cityligh1s, i havent had dinner in munich so i cant help |
| 20:25.39 | MohammadAG | the site sends me to the hebrew version, doesn't help me |
| 20:25.52 | cityligh1s | google maps doent offer traffic updates |
| 20:25.59 | MoonTiger | cehteh, thnx for all the help |
| 20:26.22 | cityligh1s | MohammadAG: use google translate |
| 20:28.56 | MohammadAG | yay, API is in english |
| 20:29.35 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.123.122) |
| 20:29.40 | cehteh | haha hebrew perl api ? |
| 20:31.00 | telmich | wie heiÃt der film, in dem jemand zum geburtstag so einen realitätsabgleich geschenkt bekommt? |
| 20:31.16 | cityligh1s | ha? |
| 20:31.32 | telmich | und dann sich alles bei ihm im leben ändert und er zum schluà suizid beginnen muss |
| 20:33.05 | cehteh | so bye cinema |
| 20:36.26 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@178-190-116-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:42.14 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@88.87.48.55) |
| 20:44.28 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, CSSU Qt 4.7.0 with "some" fixes we need being uploaded |
| 20:46.10 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@84-231-52-218.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 20:47.11 | merlin1991 | MohammadAG: I want that package |
| 20:47.13 | merlin1991 | NAO ;) |
| 20:50.24 | *** join/#maemo MoonTiger (~MoonTiger@84.Red-88-11-103.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:52.23 | *** join/#maemo wam (~wam@unaffiliated/wam) |
| 20:53.55 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 20:54.22 | *** join/#maemo ZZzzZzzz1 (~ZZzzZzzz@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-88-47.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:55.13 | MohammadAG | merlin1991, uploading straight to CSSU |
| 20:55.15 | MohammadAG | they take time |
| 20:58.02 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@88.87.48.55) |
| 21:00.15 | MoonTiger | just figured out the make clean thing |
| 21:03.03 | lcuk | lol MoonTiger |
| 21:03.21 | MoonTiger | seriously... its amazing what you learn when you rtfm |
| 21:03.23 | dangergrrl | sigh |
| 21:03.35 | MoonTiger | i never do ... i just jump in and start modifying code |
| 21:03.43 | dangergrrl | i wish i had time to spend playing with code |
| 21:03.43 | MoonTiger | never really learn the tools and such from basics |
| 21:04.02 | MoonTiger | dangergrrl, i dont have a lot of time but my gf is away and its the weekend |
| 21:04.02 | dangergrrl | i have to go try to lift an 800lb motorcycle instead |
| 21:04.19 | dangergrrl | well, i will be able to in a day or two |
| 21:04.30 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 21:04.45 | dangergrrl | i have an oil leak and some superficial parts to mount |
| 21:05.14 | dangergrrl | radiator shroud bottom cover etc |
| 21:05.56 | dangergrrl | need to look at where the oil is leaking from |
| 21:06.03 | MoonTiger | eeesh sounds like fun |
| 21:06.09 | MoonTiger | what bike is it? |
| 21:06.20 | MoonTiger | a harley right |
| 21:06.21 | MoonTiger | ? |
| 21:06.22 | dangergrrl | working on a gold wing is not fun |
| 21:06.25 | MoonTiger | ahhh |
| 21:06.36 | MoonTiger | the bike with a reverse gear |
| 21:06.39 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 21:06.40 | dangergrrl | they have plastic covering everything |
| 21:06.52 | dangergrrl | i bet an electraglide would not be fun either |
| 21:06.54 | MoonTiger | now understand make install too |
| 21:07.09 | MoonTiger | my last bike was a R1 |
| 21:07.10 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 21:07.13 | dangergrrl | actually the starter motor runs the reverse on mine |
| 21:07.19 | dangergrrl | the new ones have airbags |
| 21:07.40 | MoonTiger | airbags? on a bike?? |
| 21:07.47 | dangergrrl | well, the plan is for some major touring |
| 21:07.48 | MoonTiger | goes back to makefiles |
| 21:07.52 | MoonTiger | ahhhhh |
| 21:07.54 | MoonTiger | where? |
| 21:08.00 | dangergrrl | iÇe seen the crash test videos |
| 21:08.02 | dangergrrl | they help |
| 21:08.36 | dangergrrl | i think the canam spyder has engine powered reverse |
| 21:08.56 | dangergrrl | but itÅ like auto transmission |
| 21:09.10 | dangergrrl | so glad i did not get a 500cc vespa |
| 21:09.26 | MoonTiger | do they make vespas at 500cc |
| 21:09.28 | MoonTiger | ? |
| 21:09.32 | dangergrrl | yes |
| 21:09.42 | dangergrrl | still cvt |
| 21:09.52 | dangergrrl | and flat floor in front of the seat |
| 21:10.14 | dangergrrl | no shifting |
| 21:10.24 | dangergrrl | but i bet they are still pretty fun |
| 21:10.37 | MoonTiger | wouldnt work for me |
| 21:10.42 | dangergrrl | not as fun as a bike with manual transmission |
| 21:10.45 | MoonTiger | i like kicking up and down the gears |
| 21:10.52 | dangergrrl | me too |
| 21:11.02 | MoonTiger | i have the clutch mark on all my boots |
| 21:11.04 | MoonTiger | :) |
| 21:11.18 | dangergrrl | i tried a dirt bike on the streets around campus in college |
| 21:11.34 | dangergrrl | fell and scraped the crap out of my ankle |
| 21:11.35 | MoonTiger | a real dirt bike? |
| 21:12.17 | MoonTiger | i rode one near moses lake in washington state for a day or two ... was real fun but scarey |
| 21:12.29 | MoonTiger | they have some wicked dunes there |
| 21:13.19 | dangergrrl | waited almost 30 years to ride again |
| 21:13.23 | dangergrrl | got a dui that night on account of my banged up ankle and spinning my tired on a wet road at a stop light |
| 21:13.23 | dangergrrl | tires |
| 21:13.23 | dangergrrl | (in my car, not the dirt bike which was illegal on the streets) |
| 21:13.25 | dangergrrl | i was sober tbh |
| 21:13.25 | dangergrrl | but i had an empty vidka bottle in my back seat |
| 21:13.48 | MoonTiger | america is so retarded for the open containe laws |
| 21:13.48 | dangergrrl | well it was in houston we were riding it on roads near uni of houston |
| 21:13.57 | MoonTiger | texas is even worse |
| 21:14.15 | dangergrrl | texas open container outside a vehicle is legal |
| 21:14.19 | dangergrrl | most cities |
| 21:14.39 | dangergrrl | you can walk to 7-11 and buy a beer and drink it walking home |
| 21:14.47 | MoonTiger | im glad i left there now :) back to the land(s) of the sane |
| 21:14.53 | dangergrrl | but they nail people for public intoxication |
| 21:15.04 | dangergrrl | sometimes just for being mexican |
| 21:15.14 | dangergrrl | or gay or black |
| 21:16.08 | dangergrrl | but they can charge anyone at any time for PI |
| 21:16.27 | dangergrrl | my boots have a pad for the shifter |
| 21:16.28 | MoonTiger | lcuk ... makefiles have recursive variables ffs! |
| 21:16.53 | lcuk | MoonTiger, ? |
| 21:16.58 | dangergrrl | isn'that normal? |
| 21:17.06 | MoonTiger | they have recursive variables ... wtf? |
| 21:17.19 | MoonTiger | i never heard of a recursive variable before |
| 21:17.25 | dangergrrl | automake does that |
| 21:17.25 | MoonTiger | shakes head |
| 21:17.38 | MoonTiger | thats what im learning |
| 21:17.57 | dangergrrl | wait itÅ conditionally defined and recurses more than once? |
| 21:19.02 | dangergrrl | what does meego use for init? |
| 21:19.18 | dangergrrl | i know i saw upstart roll by in the maemo sdk |
| 21:19.49 | DocScrutinizer | upstart aka initctl (?) for maemo, nfc about meego |
| 21:20.03 | dangergrrl | systemd would give faster boot times |
| 21:20.10 | wmarone | it does use systemd |
| 21:20.12 | dangergrrl | but i think is a bad idea |
| 21:20.20 | MoonTiger | christ ... jquery, php and now makefiles ... all using the $ *sigh* |
| 21:20.27 | dangergrrl | so there are no shell scripts? |
| 21:20.29 | DocScrutinizer | UUUAERGHH, it's a lennart poettering thing |
| 21:20.37 | MoonTiger | this is fun ... lots of stuff is becoming clear |
| 21:20.41 | wmarone | one sec |
| 21:20.48 | wmarone | actually |
| 21:20.57 | wmarone | 1.2 is on Upstart, going forward they're moving to systemd |
| 21:21.04 | merlin1991 | trunk is systemd already |
| 21:21.07 | dangergrrl | bad |
| 21:21.41 | dangergrrl | why not extend busybox instead? |
| 21:21.46 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@alpskari.asiantuntijat.org) |
| 21:21.52 | DocScrutinizer | only when there L.P. on the outside, you *know* there's ****inside ;-P |
| 21:21.57 | dangergrrl | make it into initsh |
| 21:21.57 | wmarone | because it's busybox |
| 21:22.45 | dangergrrl | well systemd claims faster boot times |
| 21:22.50 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: were does your L.P. hate come from? :D |
| 21:22.52 | dangergrrl | partially due to less forking |
| 21:22.53 | DocScrutinizer | pffff |
| 21:23.05 | DocScrutinizer | you're ASKING? |
| 21:23.11 | merlin1991 | yes |
| 21:23.14 | dangergrrl | we can have less forking in sh scripts if we put more in busybox |
| 21:23.30 | andre__ | DocScrutinizer, I'm very sorry for you that your pulseaudio integration was screwed up by the packager of your distribution and that you know target the wrong person for your problems. Not. |
| 21:23.35 | DocScrutinizer | pukeaudio: L.P. avahi: L.P. systemd: L.P. |
| 21:23.50 | wmarone | dangergrrl: one of the main things with meego is moving away from busybox (and all of its crippled facilities) |
| 21:24.21 | dangergrrl | but why not turn busybox or even ash or gads bash |
| 21:24.25 | dangergrrl | into initsh |
| 21:24.39 | DocScrutinizer | andre__: PA been screwed up on every system I've seen so far, INCL maemo |
| 21:24.44 | wmarone | what's bad about systemd, anyway? |
| 21:24.50 | dangergrrl | and integrate most of the things that init needs |
| 21:24.52 | DocScrutinizer | NIH shit |
| 21:24.54 | andre__ | DocScrutinizer, not really. :) |
| 21:25.11 | dangergrrl | wmarone: booting is no longer hackable using traditional unix skills |
| 21:25.12 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: i see the point about pa, have nfc about avahi, but don't see why systemd is evil |
| 21:25.32 | dangergrrl | init is very simple |
| 21:25.45 | DocScrutinizer | why do we need systemd when we can improve/augment upstart? |
| 21:25.46 | dangergrrl | all of booting is configurable by editing text files |
| 21:26.11 | dangergrrl | most of it is implemented in text files |
| 21:26.23 | DocScrutinizer | why do we need PA while ALSA just works fine |
| 21:26.27 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: same reason as PA |
| 21:26.29 | dangergrrl | why not find ways to make that faster without changing itÅ face? |
| 21:26.37 | DocScrutinizer | and WTF do we need avahi for at all? |
| 21:26.57 | andre__ | yes, and why don't we just stay in the 70es and want no progress at all? why this internet thingy at all? |
| 21:27.13 | DocScrutinizer | BS |
| 21:27.15 | andre__ | letters also worked fine for me! I don't need this for my limited usecases! |
| 21:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | ALSA is evidently *better* than PA |
| 21:27.39 | dangergrrl | i have not come up against avahi |
| 21:27.43 | jacekowski | pulseaudio has less features than alsa |
| 21:27.44 | andre__ | assuming that BS refers to what you've written: cool that you realize |
| 21:27.47 | jacekowski | and it's slower |
| 21:27.57 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: exactly |
| 21:28.01 | dangergrrl | pulseaudio has not given my trouble on the n900 |
| 21:28.03 | jacekowski | it's just a buggy fucked up frontend for alsa |
| 21:28.07 | dangergrrl | on my pc it fails a lot |
| 21:28.15 | jacekowski | dangergrrl: except using up 50% of cpu |
| 21:28.31 | dangergrrl | jacekowski: haven't caught that |
| 21:28.38 | andre__ | "DVDs have this default disclaimer at the beginning. I can't skip that by fast forward! That's why I prefer VHS tapes!" |
| 21:28.40 | andre__ | oh yesh. |
| 21:28.54 | DocScrutinizer | since avahi I got issues on my networks I never had vefore, while I've never seen any benefit |
| 21:29.01 | dangergrrl | jacekowski: on my pc it starts giving my audio odd harmonics after a while |
| 21:29.04 | DocScrutinizer | and for systemd... ohmy |
| 21:29.10 | dangergrrl | and it gets worse with time |
| 21:29.24 | dangergrrl | i read the paper on systemd |
| 21:29.24 | jacekowski | andre__: dvd has some measurable quality improvements |
| 21:29.26 | nox- | andre__, http://www.geekologie.com/image.php?path=/2010/02/25/piracy-full.jpg |
| 21:29.39 | jacekowski | andre__: pa is based on same alsa |
| 21:29.41 | dangergrrl | i think he answers many of the right questions the wrong way |
| 21:29.41 | andre__ | nox-, hehe, had that one in mind, yes :) |
| 21:29.46 | jacekowski | andre__: and it's just another layer of complexity |
| 21:29.51 | nox- | andre__, :) |
| 21:30.12 | andre__ | jacekowski, well... that's very generalizing and partially wrong |
| 21:30.18 | dangergrrl | so |
| 21:30.30 | dangergrrl | i am about to have only a n900 to work on for a while |
| 21:30.39 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@88.87.48.55) |
| 21:31.10 | dangergrrl | it it possible to make a user maintained maemo+upstart for >1.2? |
| 21:31.13 | jacekowski | andre__: name one thing that PA is giving me or anybody |
| 21:31.18 | jacekowski | andre__: that alsa couldn't |
| 21:31.34 | dangergrrl | jacekowski: redirection over ip |
| 21:31.34 | jacekowski | positive thing to be precise |
| 21:31.40 | jacekowski | alsa can do that |
| 21:31.42 | DocScrutinizer | audio over TCP ;-P |
| 21:31.45 | dangergrrl | but i can not get it to work |
| 21:31.49 | *** join/#maemo pronto (~moo@pool-173-69-178-35.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:31.55 | jacekowski | dangergrrl: alsa has drivers for that as well |
| 21:31.56 | dangergrrl | alsa can do tcp by itself? |
| 21:31.59 | jacekowski | yes |
| 21:32.18 | dangergrrl | then what does pulse do besides break? |
| 21:32.30 | DocScrutinizer | also, do you think more tha 0.0001% of users need this? |
| 21:32.40 | jacekowski | there is virtual sound card driver |
| 21:32.44 | jacekowski | that does that and some other stuff |
| 21:32.57 | andre__ | jacekowski, errm, e.g. applications that don't block the audio hardware anymore? (except for crappy closed flash maybe) |
| 21:33.27 | jacekowski | andre__: emm |
| 21:33.31 | jacekowski | andre__: alsa does that as well |
| 21:34.21 | DocScrutinizer | and always did |
| 21:34.33 | andre__ | that's news to me compared to last time I checked this whole PA debate (probably a year ago) |
| 21:34.54 | DocScrutinizer | that's been news to L.P. as well |
| 21:35.50 | jacekowski | andre__: dmix was added to alsa in 1999 |
| 21:36.44 | DocScrutinizer | BUT BUT, PA can do >>per app volume<< pffff http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/1731 |
| 21:36.58 | andre__ | ah, since alsa 1.0.9 |
| 21:37.13 | jacekowski | andre__: no |
| 21:37.14 | DocScrutinizer | WUT? |
| 21:37.20 | jacekowski | andre__: since alsa 0.0.9 |
| 21:37.31 | jacekowski | andre__: for 12 years now |
| 21:37.35 | andre__ | "For ALSA 1.0.9rc2 and higher you don't need to setup dmix for analogue output" |
| 21:37.38 | andre__ | according to http://alsa.opensrc.org/Dmix |
| 21:37.54 | DocScrutinizer | yeah hoe TERRIBLE |
| 21:38.01 | andre__ | DocScrutinizer, +1 |
| 21:38.15 | DocScrutinizer | before you had to get a def for dmix in /etc/asoundrc |
| 21:38.18 | dangergrrl | alsa can not do per app mixing? |
| 21:38.26 | jacekowski | andre__: since 1.0.9rc2 dmix is enabled by default |
| 21:38.30 | DocScrutinizer | UNBEARABLE |
| 21:38.30 | jacekowski | dangergrrl: yes it can |
| 21:38.50 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: see my link!! |
| 21:38.53 | dangergrrl | then why does anyone need pulse? |
| 21:39.05 | DocScrutinizer | nobody needs this sh*t |
| 21:39.15 | jacekowski | dangergrrl: nobody needs it |
| 21:39.19 | jacekowski | dangergrrl: that's the thing |
| 21:39.20 | andre__ | I like it. |
| 21:40.04 | dangergrrl | then i suppose i am running gentoo with the sabayon overlay and USE=-pulse then |
| 21:40.11 | dangergrrl | when i find the bandwidth |
| 21:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | ok, when "I like it" was the last argument for PA, then |
| 21:41.47 | DocScrutinizer | done, what's next |
| 21:42.01 | jacekowski | and besides, pulse forces you to do software mixing even if your HW can do HW mixing |
| 21:42.16 | jacekowski | and my sound blaster can do full HW mixing |
| 21:42.45 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: good point |
| 21:42.47 | andre__ | DocScrutinizer: I consider "I like it" slightly less childish and more argumentative then kids writing "nobody needs this sh*t" |
| 21:43.49 | DocScrutinizer | well, bot is a statement. The relative relevance for the world though is obviously different |
| 21:43.55 | DocScrutinizer | both* |
| 21:44.28 | andre__ | hehe, agreed :) |
| 21:44.52 | DocScrutinizer | and thanks for "kids", I'm feeling miuch younger now, I can use it :-D |
| 21:45.00 | andre__ | haha |
| 21:45.08 | andre__ | you're welcome :) |
| 21:46.54 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you've got PM |
| 21:47.37 | dangergrrl | lol |
| 21:47.54 | dangergrrl | i somehow doubt DocScrutinizer is a kid |
| 21:48.17 | dangergrrl | sorry |
| 21:48.40 | dangergrrl | i do not know for sure but if he is then like WOW |
| 21:52.04 | jacekowski | afaik he's more like 40ish |
| 21:53.25 | dangergrrl | i guessed that actually |
| 22:03.11 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
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| 22:08.57 | MoonTiger | do pp; really write these makefiles by hand?? |
| 22:13.14 | MoonTiger | lcuk, you still here? |
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| 22:17.07 | MohammadAG | MoonTiger, simple ones, yes |
| 22:17.53 | MoonTiger | MohammadAG, it makes sense now that i look at how they are made ... and the integration of pkg-confg means you dont need to mess with inc and lib paths right? |
| 22:18.06 | MohammadAG | yep |
| 22:18.12 | MoonTiger | wow that is sweet |
| 22:18.20 | MoonTiger | i think i can get the hang of this |
| 22:18.50 | MohammadAG | :D |
| 22:19.03 | MoonTiger | heh i know right? welcome to the 1990's party moon |
| 22:19.06 | MoonTiger | :) |
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| 22:24.49 | lcuk | MoonTiger, i am thinking |
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| 22:35.55 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED, and keep clear of that shit! (we're fed up with 3 user requests / day) |
| 22:35.56 | merlin1991 | SpeedEvil: R&D mode on the device, some sources say that's research and develop mode, but imo it's research and destroy :P |
| 22:36.09 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 22:36.27 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 22:37.05 | DocScrutinizer | repent&desist |
| 22:39.44 | MoonTiger | night all :) |
| 22:39.50 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 22:39.54 | NIN101 | I love the read poettering bashing |
| 22:42.41 | cityligh1s | where to find morning breakfast open at 7? |
| 22:42.55 | cityligh1s | how can I even ask google? |
| 22:43.40 | DocScrutinizer | here. If it were 7o here. Alas it's shortly after midnight and I'll have a hard time finding breakfast *now* |
| 22:44.17 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless I have to try... o/ |
| 22:44.33 | cityligh1s | well as you maybe from munchen... |
| 22:45.42 | cityligh1s | s/maybe/may ba/ |
| 22:47.17 | compengi | does anyone use maemo sdk on ubuntu 11.04 64bit? |
| 22:47.36 | MohammadAG | raises hand |
| 22:48.15 | compengi | MohammadAG, how did you install it? |
| 22:54.26 | MohammadAG | compengi, carried it over from Ubuntu 10.10, why? |
| 22:54.39 | MohammadAG | I installed it on some other PC running Natty iirc |
| 22:56.31 | *** join/#maemo Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.0.250) |
| 22:57.49 | Macer | MohammadAG: i couldn't get it working in natty |
| 22:58.09 | MohammadAG | what errors did you get? |
| 22:58.23 | Macer | i dont remember... i just use the vm |
| 22:58.37 | Macer | which runs an ancient ver of ubuntu |
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| 22:59.08 | Macer | the sdk needs to be fixed... can the cssu people fix it? |
| 22:59.08 | MohammadAG | 8.10 I think |
| 22:59.11 | Macer | :) |
| 22:59.30 | MohammadAG | can't fix it if I don't know what's broken |
| 22:59.45 | MohammadAG | I mean, it works fine for me, and I guided a friend through it the other day and it worked |
| 22:59.55 | Macer | updating the install scripts for more modern linux would help |
| 23:01.05 | Macer | MohammadAG: do you have a wiki on how to do it? |
| 23:01.15 | MohammadAG | ~maemosdk |
| 23:01.15 | infobot | methinks maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation |
| 23:01.48 | Macer | tried that. install script doesnt work |
| 23:02.00 | Macer | keeps dying out when newgrp |
| 23:02.09 | MohammadAG | the script or the GUI? |
| 23:02.10 | Macer | and then it tries to do the pkg install |
| 23:02.14 | Macer | the script |
| 23:02.26 | Macer | dpkg always gives out errors |
| 23:02.40 | Macer | it downloads the debs |
| 23:02.54 | Macer | then tries to install and gives a million dep errors |
| 23:03.06 | MohammadAG | sudo error I guess |
| 23:03.15 | MohammadAG | sudoers/visudo |
| 23:03.25 | MohammadAG | I remember that on 10.04 but not 11.04 |
| 23:03.35 | Macer | the user i am installing for is in sudoers |
| 23:04.31 | Macer | but yeah... that is the problem i am having installing on my natty box so i use the vm |
| 23:04.43 | Macer | i need to learn how to make debs |
| 23:05.07 | Macer | but i kind of lost my thunder for it all as i felt like pulling out my teeth with installing the sdk |
| 23:05.20 | Macer | not to mention using a vm hinders the speed |
| 23:07.00 | MohammadAG | Macer, no, I meant the problem is related to sudoers in scratchbox |
| 23:07.17 | Macer | oh |
| 23:07.45 | Macer | well.. once the script goes.. it goes |
| 23:07.58 | Macer | the target is created and it goes on auto pilot |
| 23:08.55 | Macer | so am i supposed to finish with the error and go into the sb target and fix /etc/sudoers and try to apt-get everything? |
| 23:09.49 | Macer | well... that is what needs fixing ;) |
| 23:09.52 | Macer | heh |
| 23:09.53 | Macer | bbl |
| 23:16.14 | MohammadAG | Macer, no, you should fix that before the script even starts |
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