IRC log for #maemo on 20110515

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04:22.45*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog
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06:55.14kerio~botsnack
06:55.14infobotkerio: thanks
06:55.21kerioso cute ^_^
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07:42.15habmalaHi, I read this thread because i had LED-issues http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55821&highlight=error+status%3A+65280+failed+set+red+led+current&page=2 it said to remove the simcard, wich I tried, and to my big suprise i worked. Does anyone know that's actually happening, a regular reboot doesn't fix it?
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07:44.57MohammadAGthe lp5532 (I think) chip gets locked up
07:45.21MohammadAGapparently, it keeps receiving power even when the phone is off (I'm guessing this is for the LED to show when you hold the power button)
07:45.33MohammadAGthe only way to reset it is to remove the battery
07:46.49MohammadAGyou don't have to remove the SIM btw
07:47.49robbiethe1stMohammadAG: It doesn't happen to have a reset line, or reset command(via i2C or w/e) does it?
07:47.56lcukMohammadAG, reseating the sim is a really good way to ensure the battery also gets removed
07:48.48MohammadAGlcuk, lies, I replaced my SIM with the device on!
07:48.51MohammadAG:P
07:49.03MohammadAGrobbiethe1st, no idea, I'm not the best person to give out i2c commands
07:49.13robbiethe1stheh
07:49.41MohammadAGbtw, the sim replacement part with the device on is actually true :p
07:50.10habmalaokey, thanks MohammadAG
07:50.53habmalaand yes its for lighting up on power up, but also notifications and the keyboard backlight..
07:52.42habmalaooh, I just understood that last part MohammadAG.. hehe my bad ;) and yes that seems reasonable..
07:53.19MohammadAGI meant the blue light at startup :)
07:54.04habmalaYes, I re-read the message and realised I had misunderstood you ;)
07:54.26Evanescencecan I install hildon-desktop on my ubuntu system ?
07:54.42MohammadAGyes, not directly though
07:54.48MohammadAGsee cordia's repos
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07:59.19lcukMohammadAG, you did that because you are awesome :P
07:59.29lcukbut most mere mortals would have trouble
08:00.54MohammadAGoffline mode, connect charger, stop bme, remove battery, replace sim in under 25s, replace battery in under 5s, unplug charger, online mode, start bme
08:01.09MohammadAGeasy as 123...45...
08:05.20lcukMohammadAG, but that requires dexterity - like the superspeed cup stacker people
08:06.42lcukMohammadAG, this is how I imagine you doing what you just said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY6fyRAGH78
08:08.54MohammadAGthat was fast o_O
08:14.27toproHi, anyone here knows what's happened to eCoach development? Website and SVN seems dead for more than one year now.
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08:16.15lcuktopro, Sampo has been doing work stuff
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08:19.24toprolcuk, I would like to implement some stuff into ecoach, but first of all I would need the latest version, qt based especially. Would like to have it working on maemo and meego
08:19.49lcuktopro, then send sampo an email and ask him
08:20.13toprokk, thanks
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08:23.05robbiethe1stOk, f***. does anyone have a nice list of (py)QT4 widgets?
08:23.31robbiethe1stLike, all of them, with pictures and such? I remember there being such a page, but I cannot find it anymore
08:24.07robbiethe1stoh, wait. there we go
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08:33.53zakkkkmif i have power-kernel.. could i use uboot?
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08:39.37MohammadAGrobbiethe1st, just use designer and look at the widgets there :)
08:40.51robbiethe1stTried that once; couldn't figure out the proper names of the widgets in my 5 minutes of fiddling
08:42.17RST38hhttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pThp9ZQe0Jc/Tc-H1TMWe1I/AAAAAAAADa8/X2yTbfisB8g/s640/zombie-orig.jpg
08:42.39RST38hPolice vs Zombies
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08:49.18habmalahey, robbiethe1st whats that site? sounds interesting ;)
08:49.45robbiethe1sthttp://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.5/gallery-cleanlooks.html
08:50.04robbiethe1stSeems you have to search by "qt widgets" instead of "qt4 widgets" for some odd reason
08:50.15habmalak, thanks
08:54.59MohammadAGwants a spinning circle Qt widget
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09:02.54RST38hDoc: Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, says the meltdown at the No.1 unit
09:02.55RST38hcreated holes in the reactor and damaged the containment vessel.
09:03.03RST38hA large amount of highly radioactive water is believed to be leaking out, but it is
09:03.03RST38hnot known where it is flowing.
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09:43.18DocScrutinizerwell, I always was sure there's been a meltdown, even though they claimed it's been not - fools
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09:48.29RST38hDoc: Meanwhile: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5604/bender008.20/0_66075_4d7424e4_orig
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10:03.37DocScrutinizerwell, if they filled the groundwater with large amounts of caesium-137, then this will soon be a normal view in Japan
10:05.20DocScrutinizerzakkkkm: yes, there's a pk+uboot pkg courtesy MohammadAG
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10:16.16*** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ
10:16.25DocScrutinizer~uptime
10:16.44DocScrutinizer~botsnack
10:16.44infobotthanks, DocScrutinizer
10:16.51RST38hDoc: I prefer the cat-eared schoolgirls version =)
10:17.12DocScrutinizerX-Fade: could you please set infobot +V
10:17.53ShadowJKRST38h, seen the robotic cat ears that read your brainwaves to determine your mood and moves the cat ears accordingly?
10:18.26RST38hShadowJK: Yea, the technological progress is unbelieavable nowadays =)
10:18.38RST38hShadowJK: Now, of course, they will also have to make the tail...
10:18.45ShadowJKlol
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10:19.26MohammadAGbut it's power46 not power47
10:19.28maybeHereso, how much longer until http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhjkhtbRR31qh3bh2o1_500.jpg ?
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10:31.45DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: and it's probably still missing the iso9660.ko and/or other modules needed to access DVD/CD
10:33.18MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I don't handle modules in it
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10:33.25MohammadAGit's just a zimage
10:35.19Andy80a simple question about packaging: I'm going to package a library that is available on gitorious. It doesn't have any version number, but dh_make want the folder to be in the versione "application-version", so... what version number should I use instead?
10:36.10RST38h1.0.0 ?
10:36.50Andy80RST38h: but... using 1.0.0 looks like a stable version, while this one is far from being stable at the moment
10:36.54DocScrutinizer0.1.0?
10:36.58DocScrutinizer0.0.1?
10:37.16MohammadAG0.1 imo
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10:37.33RST38hJapanese government is extending the evacuation zone to the areas where annual radiation levels exceeded 20mSv
10:38.00Andy80yeah... 0.1 or 0.1.0 would be better...
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10:38.08RST38h+7700 people to evacuate
10:38.35MohammadAGstrictly speaking, that's the package version rather than the library's
10:39.46Andy80MohammadAG: oh, you're right!
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10:41.37MohammadAG:)
10:49.17MohammadAGsymbian.nokia.com sucks
10:49.25MohammadAGThe credentials you provided cannot be determined to be authentic.
10:50.08RST38hThey won't be around for much longer anyway
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11:02.28DocScrutinizerAndy80: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html plus/minus a few chapters
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11:05.19MohammadAGthat's not related to debian packaging DocScrutinizer :p
11:05.34DocScrutinizerbut definitely to lib naming
11:05.57DocScrutinizerthought it could help if somebody doesn't even know the diff
11:06.49Andy80just a note, it's not a library I've written... I'm just packaging
11:07.28MohammadAGyeah
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11:07.46MohammadAGbesides rebuilding a kernel, is there a way to change the CMDLINE?
11:07.59MohammadAGuboot isn't an option, it can't read eMMC
11:08.50MohammadAG(or is there a way to decompress a zImage? I guess I could sed it)
11:09.26DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: messing with libs is sth that needs quite a bit of expertise and taking responsibility, as other devs rely on your proper management of things like lib naming, ABI compatibility etc
11:09.51SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Install meego on SD - then do whatever?
11:11.05DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: of course you can decomrpess zimage, it's a normal gp/bz whatever
11:11.05MohammadAGSpeedEvil, I don't have an SD card
11:11.09DocScrutinizergz*
11:11.22MohammadAGI already have MeeGo on my eMMC, I just need to permanently flash the kernel
11:11.32MohammadAGI tried gzip -d, no dice
11:11.41DocScrutinizertry bzip
11:11.56SpeedEvilMohammadAG: not even a teeny 1G one?
11:12.13DocScrutinizeror try ark which has some heuristics to select the right decompressor
11:12.28MohammadAGbzip2, tried that too
11:12.35MohammadAGSpeedEvil, nope, had a 4GB one, it died
11:12.43MohammadAGand the 16GB one isn't for testing
11:14.40DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: http://www.google.de/search?q=decompress+zImage
11:15.50MohammadAGhttp://www.codeguru.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-415186.html
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11:21.02DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I'm sure there are tools that are aware of the properties of the auto-decompressor code that's heading the plain compressed kernel code
11:21.39DocScrutinizermaybe even the decompressor itself in vmlinuz can get used to write the expanded linux kernel to somewhere
11:26.36MohammadAGnone of the methods are working
11:26.36DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I seem to recall there are scripts to `make vmlinuz` for maemo. The tools called there and files and filesizes used should straightly lead you to the answer how to decompress vmlinuz
11:26.48MohammadAGI wonder if it's not a vmlinuz image and meego's just using a wrong name
11:27.57ShadowJKI would have thought that since MeeGo uses uboot, it'd be a uImage?
11:28.01DocScrutinizergiven the limited amount of space on that kernel mtdpart, I bet it's a compressed image
11:28.37ShadowJKThough there's a long standing tradition by various distros to name bzimage and zimage as "vmlinuz" on the filesystem
11:28.51DocScrutinizerShadowJK: the kernel vmlinu? image is a selfextracting binary basically
11:30.09DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so uBoot doesn't care, no bootloader does
11:30.53ShadowJKdunno, for my Sheevaplug's uboot I have to make the kernel with "make uImage", iirc
11:30.57DocScrutinizerload vmlinuz into ram, jump to startaddr
11:31.33DocScrutinizerthe kernel then basically decompresses itself
11:31.38ShadowJK(and then the memory address in kernel .conf and uboot have to match)
11:33.04DocScrutinizerof course you can 'easily' create a userland tool that does exactly the same, and stopps execution after decompressing
11:36.07MohammadAGShadowJK, I have both
11:36.14MohammadAG(a uImage and a zImage)
11:38.10MohammadAGI'm out of ideas :/
11:41.48DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: learn to build a maemo z/uImage, check and understand the used tools, and you got your answer how to reverse the process
11:42.08MohammadAGI know how to build a maemo image...
11:42.27MohammadAGit uses simple tools like gzip
11:42.32DocScrutinizerfine, so step 1 acomplished
11:42.42MohammadAGbut a zImage is self-decompressing, so the actual gzip file isn't at the start of the file
11:42.56MohammadAGthe gzip header is 8b1f
11:43.31DocScrutinizeryes, obviously while building the zImage somebody gets a file of binary decompressor code and glues that at head of zImage
11:43.45MohammadAGI found 008b1f0 2432 82c6 3474 32dd 96a8 8588 e377 c913
11:44.03DocScrutinizerfind out who's doing that and what size the used code is, and you're done
11:44.16MohammadAGthis isn't a maemo image, it's a meego image
11:44.38MohammadAGand I can't find the kernel sources for that exact image, and chances are if i do find them, they'll be heavily based off RPM stuff
11:45.51DocScrutinizeror you use the brute force approach and try to unzip from addr:0 to addr:30000 and see where unzip doesn't barf ;-)
11:46.03MohammadAGI thought of that
11:46.09MohammadAGis there a sane way to do it? :P
11:46.34DocScrutinizerfor ((i=0; i<30000; i++)); do...
11:46.59DocScrutinizer(bashism!)
11:48.24DocScrutinizertest you script with a dummy first! create a (small) .bz and add 20bytes of filler to head - feed that to your script
11:49.06MohammadAGhow do I break a loop in bash?
11:49.12DocScrutinizermake sure your script prints "20" or even stops with uncompressed .bz file
11:50.08DocScrutinizerhelp break
11:50.24DocScrutinizerbreak: break [n]
11:50.26DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
11:50.34MohammadAGthis'll take a while :/
11:50.45DocScrutinizerof course a exit works as well ;-)
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11:54.57MohammadAGhmm
11:55.07MohammadAGtechnically, this'll take 112.6 days
11:55.28MohammadAGeach attempt takes 5s
11:55.29SpeedEvilumm...
11:55.46SpeedEvilread man hexdump
11:55.59SpeedEvilfind out how to get it to output a single line of hex digits
11:56.01MohammadAGI tried hexdump and got 008b1f0 2432 82c6 3474 32dd 96a8 8588 e377 c913
11:56.06SpeedEvilnow, search for the magic string
11:56.14MohammadAGthat's it ^
11:56.24SpeedEvilif this is at position 3993940, then divide this by two, and use dd
11:56.27SpeedEviljob done.
11:56.54MohammadAGdidn't get the last part
11:57.37SpeedEvilHexdump is configurable. It can also be set to output a single unbroken line with two output bytes representing one input byte
11:57.47SpeedEvilyou can then simply text search for your desired string
11:58.40MohammadAGisn't that the line I pasted above?
11:58.49MohammadAGI'm not sure how to get the number to use with dd from that
11:58.51DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: wut? on a beagleboard?
11:59.12MohammadAGnope
11:59.16SpeedEvil2432 82c6 3474 32dd 96a8 8588 e377 c913
11:59.20SpeedEvilremove the spaces
11:59.29SpeedEvilthen search for that string in the unbroken line from your kernel
11:59.44SpeedEvilprobably only the first several bytes
12:01.22DocScrutinizerumm, what's that byte sequence?
12:02.08DocScrutinizersome kinda global magic word?
12:02.20DocScrutinizeror maybe it's x86 specific?
12:02.57MohammadAGthat shouldn't matter in this case though, I only want the gzipped image which is arch independent
12:03.03MohammadAG(at least as a compressed image)
12:03.11DocScrutinizerWUT?
12:03.21DocScrutinizerok, so it's a magic word then
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12:03.43DocScrutinizerI.E header of the (b)ziped kernel
12:04.03MohammadAGyeah 8b1f
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12:05.06MohammadAGthough I'm not sure what's meant by unbroken line
12:05.38DocScrutinizerwonders if unzip had a repair option that does all this magic by itself
12:06.01DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: no linefeeds, CRs, or white spaces
12:06.18DocScrutinizerwhich could break your search pattern
12:06.54DocScrutinizerif you're searchin for FFFFFFFF, the a sequence like "FF FF\nFF FF" won't match
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12:08.44MohammadAGbut I already found the magic header
12:08.46MohammadAGhttp://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=P1ZVUP2u
12:08.47DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I also cloudly seem to recal meego changed compression algo (like from gzip to b2zip) eventually
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12:09.57DocScrutinizerthat's a minor change as only the autoexec decompressor header of zImage is affected usually. Not in your case though
12:10.02DocScrutinizerjust take care
12:12.29DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: 468b 1f2e
12:12.35DocScrutinizer:-o
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12:21.49DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: od -t x1 -w30000 <file> might help
12:23.03MohammadAGthat displays one line, yeah
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12:34.18DocScrutinizerprobably a veritable hexeditor is even better as it shows offset, and doesn't (shouldn't - i've seen others) care about "linebreaks"
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12:36.46AcTiVaTeHey all, after a recent flash and restore I am having some problems. One of the biggest is the recent calls in my phonelist not showing any entries or updating anymore.
12:37.35AcTiVaTeAny repair I have to do on any sqlite db's for this or do I simply have to recreate a db?
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12:43.24AcTiVaTerecreating the DB seems to be the answer
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12:47.16DocScrutinizeryep
12:48.04DocScrutinizerseems the format of db changed from some PRn-1 to PRn
12:48.14DocScrutinizerso restore breaks that db
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12:49.51DocScrutinizermere handwaving, I couldn't share a pointer to some ticket or tmo thread about it
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12:53.23n900-dkIs there a way to see apps installation log? I guess I have installed something eating my batteri the other day, but can't remember the name of the app..
12:53.39n900-dks/batteri/battery/
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13:01.33n900-dkor maybe a tool to see what is eating battery..
13:01.56SpeedEvilpowertop
13:07.26*** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@91.182.141.172)
13:07.39n900-dkputs on the glasses to interpret powertops output..
13:07.56SpeedEvilSee also http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1305463695361.jpg
13:08.01SpeedEvilerr - not that.
13:08.39SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management
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13:09.33n900-dkheh, like the first one better :) But thanks
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13:15.18rddoes anybody know which qemu version the autobuilder includes?
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13:42.02merlin1991SpeedEvil: lurks on b ?
13:43.08SpeedEvilSometimes.
13:43.20SpeedEvilJust for the pictures of kittys.
13:44.21merlin1991that wash-basin is defenitely awesome :D
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14:20.21DocScrutinizermerlin1991: ??
14:20.37merlin1991DocScrutinizer: ??
14:20.51DocScrutinizerwhich wash-basin
14:21.01merlin1991SpeedEvils 4chan link
14:21.03merlin1991prob 404 by now
14:21.07DocScrutinizeryes
14:21.55DocScrutinizerweird shit, I never even take notice of URLs containing /b/
14:22.15DocScrutinizeror 4chan
14:22.32DocScrutinizertbh I have no idea what this is all about
14:22.37merlin1991then you miss out on those 0,000001% of good links :D
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14:22.48merlin1991(within all the 4chan links)
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14:25.03pupniklol
14:25.25merlin1991pupnik: ftw
14:25.36vldcnst#politics part was right on!
14:25.43merlin1991wonders what nsfw link pupnik posted
14:26.14pupniknow playing http://dissentradio.com/radio/11_05_13_woods.mp3
14:26.26DocScrutinizerno link, just plain insulting XXX
14:26.54vldcnstDocScrutinizer: can I get a 'greeting' too?
14:26.55pupnikit's hard to switch modes when coming off other channels
14:28.11n900-dkHow can I see, which processes is using swap mem?
14:28.24DocScrutinizerhtop
14:29.19DocScrutinizervldcnst: no
14:29.28pupnikwanted to drop this:  if you want to du -s * in MyDocs, and want to see .sounds, .video, and you're using bash, type "shopt -s dotglob"  and bash will show you hidden directories with du
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14:30.12DocScrutinizer:-D
14:30.18DocScrutinizernice hint
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14:32.49n900-dkhmm, there is no swap column in htop
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14:52.05compengiwhen i install a new application, the new created shortcut icon in the main menu section isn't set. it's only updated after rebooting the device. does anyone knows why?
14:52.57trxthats normal
14:53.41compengioh
14:53.42compengireally?
14:53.43DocScrutinizerseems this possibly is related to a buggy sequence of installing files. The desktop monitors the .desktop dir and recaches icon cache as soon as a new file appears there
14:53.55trxyou need to clear the cache
14:54.02trxreload, etc
14:54.06DocScrutinizerif a packet installs .desktop first, then the icon file
14:54.07trxcant remember exactly
14:54.35DocScrutinizertouch your.desktop should do the trick
14:54.54DocScrutinizerif that hypothesis is true
14:54.56DocScrutinizer:-D
14:54.59trx:)
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14:56.44DocScrutinizerwonders if that recaching process could use a 'sleep 5' after detecting inotify for *.desktop
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14:59.15DocScrutinizeras .deb are rarely built in a way so dependency files like an icon get installed prior to the files depending on them like .desktop
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15:01.25DocScrutinizerI only wish I could bother to investigate this enough for opening a ticket against it
15:04.04compengiDocScrutinizer, yeah, it's annoying
15:04.19compengii don't remember this before cssu update
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15:06.11DocScrutinizercompengi: it's a race and always been there (always assuming my explanation holds some truth)
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15:06.56DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nevertheless we might be able to fix ^^^this in cssu, no?
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15:08.04DocScrutinizerjust add a usleep(5000000) after the inotify callback, in whatever does that icon cache update
15:08.24DocScrutinizerhildon-desktop?
15:09.08GAN900yawns.
15:09.15GAN900Have I missed anything interesting?
15:09.19DocScrutinizerreyawns
15:09.34DocScrutinizerno
15:09.59DocScrutinizerunless I missed it too ;-D
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15:12.25MohammadAGreads
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15:12.48DocScrutinizerwell, to whom it may concern: SHR got call audio semi-working on N900
15:13.14MohammadAGit's not related to the CSSU
15:13.28DocScrutinizerit's actually a matter of days rather than months now
15:13.30MohammadAGit happened ever since PR1.1 removed the gtk-icon cache script
15:13.45DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: that's well understood
15:13.55MohammadAG<compengi> i don't remember this before cssu update
15:13.59DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nevertheless we could *fix* it in cssu
15:14.06MohammadAGtrue
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15:16.04DocScrutinizermake that a usleep(15000000)
15:16.27DocScrutinizerjust to be on safe side of fence
15:18.03DocScrutinizereven better: "batch" it (means only start the icon cache update when CPU load drops to a level indicating HAM/apt is done)
15:19.04DocScrutinizerhmm, the sleep is quite probably just 'nifty' enough
15:19.17DocScrutinizerand a nice one-liner patch
15:20.10DocScrutinizerwhile batching might get awkward to do
15:21.19n900-dkHow come Sociality can start so quickly, when I click the icon? It pops up immediately. When I start it from terminal it takes a little before I see it
15:21.20trxit would be better to implement it in HAM
15:21.33DocScrutinizerif update-icon-cache is a spwned process, you could lower prio (aka nice) of it to be below that of apt-worker
15:22.02DocScrutinizern900-dk: fake, and mirrors ;-P
15:22.05trxn900-dk it loads an image first afaik
15:22.20trxor w/e
15:22.39n900-dkbut it runs the same command from shortcut as from terminal, right?
15:23.09trxprobably
15:23.19trxcheck the .desktop file for more info
15:23.44DocScrutinizerthat's this unbearable "show a screenshot" default behaviour of PR1.3 hildon, which I'd love to kill all together on my system
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15:25.11DocScrutinizerask MohammadAG
15:25.37DocScrutinizerhe knows better about the right names, and how it's working exactly
15:26.33n900-dkok thanks, just wondering, maybe Sociality was running in the background or something :)
15:26.51MohammadAG<n900-dk> How come Sociality can start so quickly, when I click the icon? It pops up immediately. When I start it from terminal it takes a little before I see it
15:26.54DocScrutinizerno, hildon has a dir with screenshots
15:27.12MohammadAGI fake startup, iPhone-style
15:27.12MohammadAGwell, hildon-desktop does, I just found a way to do it in Qt apps :p
15:27.40MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, make /home/user/.cache/launch non-writable
15:27.48MohammadAGthen delete all pvrs in it
15:27.50DocScrutinizerthanks :-D
15:28.03DocScrutinizerpvr was the friggin buzzword
15:28.17trxhmm
15:28.39trxMohammadAG maybe that could be used as a splash screen?
15:28.57DocScrutinizerit IS a splashscreen
15:29.14trxoh, its like that
15:29.22DocScrutinizerjust it's a friggin "autogenerated" screenshot
15:30.12trxmakes more sense to why it exists :)
15:30.30trxi allways found it rather stupid..
15:30.34DocScrutinizeris pondering to imagemagic -dim 50% *.pvr
15:31.33DocScrutinizerso you at least can tell there's no use to click like a fool on settings screen, as it's only the splash and you need to wait another 3s
15:32.27DocScrutinizertrx: it's definitely stupid
15:33.05trx50% dim is actually good idea
15:33.13trxor whatever effect
15:33.47DocScrutinizersuperinpose a stinky finger ;-P
15:34.18MohammadAGThat's not a bad idea, except making it configurable would be better
15:34.32DocScrutinizeralso more robust as multiple processing doesn't change an already processed image
15:35.04n900-dkDoes powerkernel eat more battery, even when overclocking is not enabled?
15:35.06DocScrutinizerwhile multiple dim50 would result in a black screen eventually
15:35.12DocScrutinizerno
15:35.27DocScrutinizernot per se
15:35.56n900-dkcool
15:36.44DocScrutinizerthere are some quirks that may affect your battery management and cpu load, which show up as soon as you do certain things only possible on PK though
15:37.08DocScrutinizerlike modprobe bq27200
15:37.14n900-dkIPv6 one of them?
15:37.20DocScrutinizerdunno
15:37.24DocScrutinizerpotentially
15:37.42trxor do dim 100%
15:37.51DocScrutinizeryeah :-P
15:37.54trxthen do -10% over few seconds
15:38.12DocScrutinizerumm
15:39.02DocScrutinizertrx: you are thinking of pvr. and about dynamic effects. I suggested a onetime processing of *.pvr, as that's easy to implement with a initscript
15:39.11MohammadAG<trx> MohammadAG maybe that could be used as a splash screen?
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15:39.26MohammadAGin PSFreedom I implemented it as "PSFreedom is loading, please wait..."
15:39.30MohammadAGrather than a fake startup
15:40.01trxill have a look at that
15:40.13trxDocScrutinizer yeah good point
15:40.14DocScrutinizercould anybody find me a gfx tool available on maemo, to superimpose something into those *.pvr?
15:40.17MohammadAGit's just a PVR I created externally
15:40.38MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=837973#post837973
15:41.35trxlol @ post date
15:41.39trx10-10-10
15:43.52MohammadAGsays 10-11-10 for me :P
15:44.53trx23:48
15:45.07trxi am in GMT+1
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15:46.26MohammadAGGMT +3 here
15:46.33MohammadAG(well, +2 +1 DST)
15:46.50trxwell that explains it then :)
15:47.40DocScrutinizerto the point (pvr): http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1001784#post1001784
15:49.31compengianyone here uses maemo sdk on gentoo?
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15:50.17BigWookiehi, i know this sounds ridicolos but any advice to kernel debugging on a n900?
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15:51.14jacekowskidon't do it
15:52.16BigWookieI use uboot to boot from mmc and try to run webos, the kernel starts but at a certain stage it hangs and flashes the display
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15:52.51DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: how would I *edit* *.pvrs?
15:53.16jacekowskiBigWookie: well, you would have to connect to debug ports under the battery
15:53.44BigWookieokay, so best thing is forget about the whole thing ;_;
15:54.34DocScrutinizerkernel debugging without a serial console working from very start is rather hard
15:55.06DocScrutinizerthat's why OM shipped debug board with Neo
15:55.09BigWookie:/ yeah
15:56.15DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: what a format are those *.pvr?
15:56.22DocScrutinizerspecial?
15:56.29rdI compiled navit myself and the menu icon disappeared. Can somebody tell, where it should be located?
15:57.20MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, PowerVR
15:57.32MohammadAGI found no way to make them outside hildon-desktop
15:57.49MohammadAGbesides the iPhone SDK I think, though I never tried that
15:58.16DocScrutinizerwtf PowerVR? o.O
15:58.18trxrd opt/usr/share/icons/hicolor/*
15:58.32MohammadAGPVR = PowerVR image
15:58.41DocScrutinizernever heard of it
15:58.51MohammadAGit's used extensively on iOS
15:59.01DocScrutinizermeh!!! :-/
15:59.14MohammadAGkinda like PNGs, except they're accelerated by the SGX
15:59.21DocScrutinizerouch
15:59.48MohammadAGthough the quality of them is like 24-bit BMPs tbh
15:59.54DocScrutinizerso is there any converter pvr-> <any-sane-common-format> ?
16:00.46DocScrutinizerI gather your pvr-creator is just converting png -> pvr, but not the other way round
16:01.29MohammadAGno, it's just taking a screenshot of the window using libhildon's methods
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16:01.44DocScrutinizerwell, whatever the source
16:02.24DocScrutinizercould you add a function to manipulate the resulting pvr?
16:02.44DocScrutinizerlike superimposing some png?
16:03.02DocScrutinizeror simply dimming
16:03.14DocScrutinizerdimming should be rather simple
16:03.25MohammadAGlemme point you to the function
16:03.35DocScrutinizersure, go ahead
16:03.47GAN900Ah, gaffer's tape is the best
16:03.54GAN900No more rattlin' Lenovo battery.
16:04.29DocScrutinizerbut then, wait a minute, the friggin pvr for e.g settings is autogenerated by hildon, no pvr-creator involved at all
16:05.25MohammadAGhttps://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop/blobs/master/src/home/hd-home.c#line1031
16:05.37MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it's a hildon-desktop function
16:05.43MohammadAGall devs can add it into apps
16:05.43DocScrutinizeraah
16:05.51DocScrutinizeryeah
16:05.52DocScrutinizersure
16:06.02DocScrutinizerI'd like to tweak it
16:06.04MohammadAGmy app just sets the image you provide as a background then takes a screenshot
16:06.24DocScrutinizermhm
16:07.37DocScrutinizerwell, that all is awkward for my purpose. I simply want to *edit*  the *.pvr files, no matter who created them
16:08.31rdwhy is /opt needed, why is /usr/share/icons/hicolor/* not ok?
16:08.41rdhttp://pastebin.ca/2060493
16:08.52rdseems marble uses just /usr, no opt...
16:09.44DocScrutinizer~optification
16:09.44infobotfrom memory, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3
16:10.13MohammadAGdon't use /opt
16:10.27MohammadAGuse /usr/share/icons directly, the folder is optified anyways
16:10.37MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, don't think it's possible
16:10.51DocScrutinizerrd:
16:10.53DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ls -ld /usr/share/icons
16:10.54DocScrutinizerlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2010-06-23 06:03 /usr/share/icons -> /opt/usr/share/icons
16:11.41rdThanks, DocScrutinizer
16:12.11DocScrutinizerso aiui I need to exploit the hildon function that loads that friggin pvr to screen, then take a screenshot to get a proper format image, edit that with whatver tool I find, and feed the result to pvr-creator
16:12.56DocScrutinizer*burrrp*
16:12.57MohammadAGactually
16:13.14MohammadAGthere are apps to edit PVR images, but they seem to need parts of the iPhone SDK or Mac OS X
16:13.25DocScrutinizerlol, sure
16:13.43DocScrutinizerponders about gimp
16:14.00DocScrutinizerif gimp can't edit pvr, then doomsday
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16:16.30DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: couldn't you add that 'tiny bit of additional functionality' to pvr-creator? :-D
16:18.51DocScrutinizerquite a few users would adore that option to call `pvr-creator --edit "dim50" ~user/.cache/launch/*.pvr` on sysinit
16:21.01DocScrutinizerpvr-creator --edit "exec:gimp --foo --bar %file%" ~user/.cache/launch/*.pvr
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16:24.41MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I think you need the actual hardware
16:24.42DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I'd even contribute the script to avoid multiple processing of same *.pvg
16:24.53MohammadAGie a PowerVR
16:25.01MohammadAGor not, it works in the maemo 5 sdk
16:25.29MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'll rewrite it in Qt/C++, my Gtk skills suck
16:25.37DocScrutinizerI never thuoght about running this on my laptop ;-D
16:26.11DocScrutinizerit's a true maemo app
16:26.38DocScrutinizercalled pvr-splashscreen-stamper
16:26.45DocScrutinizer;-)
16:27.08MohammadAGwell, Qt allows easy image manipulation
16:27.14DocScrutinizeraka settings-nosuck
16:27.38lcukMohammadAG, from which APIs, and are they available directly from qml?
16:28.08DocScrutinizerwell, provide whatever you find easy to implement: superimpose another png, blurr, dim...
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16:29.13DocScrutinizerI'm almost fine with all of that, as long as it makes for clearly distinguishable pvr "splashs"
16:30.41DocScrutinizermy only alternative was to create a (identical) *.pvr from a "SUCKS" image, for all apps using that *.pvr shit
16:30.59DocScrutinizeror completely killing it the way you suggested
16:32.23DocScrutinizers/"SUCKS"/"LOADING... please wait"/.
16:33.00DocScrutinizerthis screenshot fake is so utterly silly and annoying
16:33.18n900-dk+1
16:33.55DocScrutinizerand even worse, takes up some more time on app-start
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16:34.49DocScrutinizerI'd accept this additional 0.5s when I get a proper feedback. But definitely not for getting fooled by the settings-syndrome
16:36.54DocScrutinizerMAAAN, this pissed me so many times. And now (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1001784#post1001784) I learn I'm not the only one
16:37.13n900-dkPlease fix DocScrutinizer ;)
16:37.30DocScrutinizerI'm unfixable fubar
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16:38.53GAN900DocScrutinizer, they should do what Apple does.
16:39.12DocScrutinizeruhuh, what is it that apple does?
16:39.43GAN900What Jaffa proposed years ago.
16:39.58GAN900When the application opens it shows the widget outlines.
16:40.08GAN900Then fills them in when it actually opens.
16:40.08DocScrutinizerwhat I proposed last millenium ;-P
16:40.53DocScrutinizerGAN900: well, another nice way of saying "this is a splash screen"
16:41.13DocScrutinizerI'd be happy with blurr or dim as well
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16:41.50DocScrutinizerway easier to implement, though of course is missing the coolness factor of apple
16:42.18GAN900http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa?blog=6&page=1&paged=5
16:42.27GAN900Improving Application Startup Mockup
16:42.48DocScrutinizerGAN900: my suggestion some 30 min ago been quite along that line
16:43.21DocScrutinizerGAN900: and seems MohammadAG bitten
16:43.35MohammadAGlcuk, not sure about QML, but QPixmap and QImage are very interesting
16:44.31MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, are you sure it takes more time?
16:44.34MohammadAGI'm pretty sure it doesn't
16:45.47n900-dkhmm, wonders why I suddenly have no catalogs in HAM..
16:46.02DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: loading an image from eMMC takes some CPU cycles that aren't available for app startup
16:47.02DocScrutinizerprobably not much, but definitely some
16:47.30DocScrutinizerthose 0.5s were straight from my ass though
16:47.48DocScrutinizeryou know my ass has good numbers most of the times
16:48.46MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, there might be a way to dim the pvr, rather than edit each one
16:48.51MohammadAGbut this requires a modded hildon-desktop
16:49.04DocScrutinizerYEAH!!! go for it!!
16:49.17MohammadAGI'm not sure I'm C-skilled enough
16:49.22DocScrutinizerthat's a true cssu improvement
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16:51.38DocScrutinizerthough.... It will take even more time, for doing something over and over again that could easily get applied to the *.pvr once and done
16:52.21n900-dkIs there a way to prefer specific connections over another? I have an MMS APN, and the device shouldn't autoconnect to this APN
16:52.45DocScrutinizerso while it sounds cute, it actually seems the inferior design from a optimization and system performance PoV
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16:53.41lcukMohammadAG, C skills you have I am in no doubt
16:54.00DocScrutinizern900-dk: there is, but I lost the link. You need to edit some weird stuff in connection manager config files or sth
16:54.02lcukC in specific libraries and APIs are usually more difficult to remember and know
16:54.53DocScrutinizerit's always the api and libs - c is simple
16:55.20MohammadAGwell, the image is a ClutterActor
16:55.20MohammadAGso if there's a way to dim that...
16:55.33n900-dkDocScrutinizer: ok, maybe I will find it at TMO
16:55.50DocScrutinizeryeah n900-dk I think it's been there
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16:58.27MohammadAGthink I found an easy way
17:01.16DocScrutinizerI hope it's also a fast way :-/
17:01.36n900-dkoh, I could just delete the MMS APN - fMMS don't need it anymore :)
17:01.40DocScrutinizerunless you're talking about the pvr-creator improvement
17:01.44MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it uses existing code
17:01.49MohammadAGfrom hildon-desktop
17:02.01MohammadAGcompiles
17:02.40DocScrutinizerstill wondering if it's a patch to hildon-desktop
17:02.50DocScrutinizeror to pvr-creator
17:03.11MohammadAGh-d
17:03.15DocScrutinizerI'd not really like the patching H-D isea
17:03.52MohammadAGmeh, my internal battery came loose again
17:04.04MohammadAGdate and time going back to 6:00 and 1/1/09 :/
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17:04.59DocScrutinizerit's the more intrusive patch, makes the feature non-optional to install for all those using cssu, and introduces additional potential bugs for a concept that's suboptimal
17:05.29MohammadAGit can be made configurable
17:05.36MohammadAGbut before that, it needs to work
17:05.46MohammadAG=> Segmentation fault
17:06.30DocScrutinizerwile a design along an augmented pvr-creator editing *.pvr is a plain user pkg you can install and purge any time, use it on all maemo systems, and it's more resource saving
17:07.29DocScrutinizerall of these points are knockout arguments NOT to implement it into H-D
17:08.09MohammadAGoh btw DocScrutinizer
17:08.23MohammadAGthe loop's still running
17:08.25MohammadAGI forgot about that
17:08.31DocScrutinizerhahaha
17:08.59DocScrutinizerit's plain weird it takes 5s per iteration
17:09.13MohammadAGwell, dd, and it tries to gzip
17:10.29DocScrutinizeroh hum, maybe you shoul've piped it, so unzip errs out on beginning of dd shuffling MBs, not first copying the whole crap then try to unzip
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17:11.25DocScrutinizerdd with a blocksize of 1, well that's for sure slow ;-)
17:11.54DocScrutinizer2 mio write()
17:12.23DocScrutinizerI guess you can kill that loop
17:13.03DocScrutinizer(I'd even unzip >/dev/null)
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17:14.59DocScrutinizer(H-D pvr patch) plus the idea of multiple times editing the same picture same way, for each start of app when you are interested in a fast execution and low overhead - that's really no smart design
17:15.58DocScrutinizer(you can see how my mind sometimes is changing a 180° in a short while - not always first impression is the right one)
17:17.26MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it's a ClutterActor
17:17.40MohammadAGyou're not editing anything, you're just showing it dimmed
17:17.51MohammadAGit's the same as dimming what's behind dialogs
17:17.52DocScrutinizerthat's also the reason why it takes me the longer to start on writing specs the more complex a task is - it just needs longer to evaluate all the aspects of each possible solution
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17:20.10DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: to get just in vicinity of a on-par with the editing-.pvr concept, this H-D patch would at very least need a per-app config in .desktop
17:20.38MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, or a config where it belongs, in /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini
17:20.50DocScrutinizeror that
17:21.12DocScrutinizerthough I'm yet undecided on that
17:21.38DocScrutinizerit's no general transition but a per-app startup detail
17:22.20DocScrutinizeryou don't want to have per-app settings in transitions.ini
17:23.21DocScrutinizerper-app things in global files always cause lots of headache
17:23.47MohammadAGwhy per app?
17:23.53MohammadAGeither it affects all apps or none
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17:24.56DocScrutinizera user might want to have proper pvr for one app, dimmed pvr for second one, his own undimmed pvr-creator made custom splash on third, and plain no pvr on 4th
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17:26.15DocScrutinizerIf I create my own custom splash with pvr creator then I don't want this to get dimmed, though I might want dimming for all other apps
17:27.01DocScrutinizeryou see the shortcoming adding up for the H-D patch concept
17:27.52DocScrutinizeraugment pvr-creator to pvr-editor, it's the way better approach
17:28.16DocScrutinizerand works on plain maemo as well ;-D
17:29.38DocScrutinizernever patch system bits if you can achieve same (or even better, here) effect with a plain user app
17:30.13DocScrutinizerdevelopment is not about simplicity of implementation
17:30.53DocScrutinizeror more precise, simplicity is a criterion after best approach has been selected
17:32.05DocScrutinizerin fact a simple suboptimal approach has killed off any work on the optimal one so many times
17:32.12merlin1991kulve: I'm going to reflash now, and then I'll retry ogg-support 1.0.7~rc1
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17:34.50DocScrutinizerfor a recent example see how lis3lv02.ko module botch upstream completely blocks any proper implementation of a lis302dl driver going upstream, as "there is already a driver for that"
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17:36.25DocScrutinizerbetter partially implement a complicated but wel designed concept, than have a simple-to-implement botch nicely done so nobody ever will touch it again
17:38.53DocScrutinizersighs
17:39.06DocScrutinizerprobably already too late :-/
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17:41.25DocScrutinizer...and another bleeding edge patch to cssu that's neither needed nor tested nor discussed, and probably will give us another step away from cssu-stable
17:42.06DocScrutinizeri.e. more possible bugs
17:42.25merlin1991DocScrutinizer: cssu has no team that wants to push it towards -stable
17:42.47DocScrutinizerevidently
17:42.52DocScrutinizertoo boring
17:42.57merlin1991exactly
17:43.14DocScrutinizerimplemeting a patch to dim pvr splashscreens is way more fun, and exciting
17:43.35khertanfixing that qt bugs should be the priority !
17:43.48khertanthe raster engine is too much bugged !
17:44.11lcukkhertan, how many other qt bugs should be prioritised?
17:44.25DocScrutinizerdeclares cssu lethaly sick
17:44.31khertanlcuk: i count 2
17:44.59merlin1991hm how long does it usually take to boot after a flash?
17:45.05khertanlcuk : the one which prevent qt hildon widget to works, and the qt18720
17:45.12merlin1991I'm looking at the dots for qutie some time now and beginning to worry
17:45.20khertanlcuk: at the least this are the both that i found blocking
17:45.32khertanlcuk: and i didn' t found where it s come from
17:45.42DocScrutinizermerlin1991: might take minutes
17:46.00khertanlcuk: i ve even try to uncommit many git commit without success
17:46.16khertanlcuk: at least for the shift click selection bug, we have a patch
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17:51.35kuzewHello, has anyone attempted to mount maemo's rootfs on nitdroid?  I'm trying to fix a multiboot item so I can get back into maemo
17:51.56DocScrutinizermeh *eg*
17:52.16kuzewthe multiboot rescue shell works, but I can't type in any special chars14]
17:52.19kuzew[#maemo] ell works, but I can't type in any special chars
17:52.24kuzewerr
17:52.27DocScrutinizerwishes he got a € for each "multiboot issue"
17:52.42kuzewthe rescue shell works, sorta
17:52.54n900-dkdoes nitroid have landscape mode?
17:53.04kuzewn900-dk: yeah
17:53.15DocScrutinizerfsck nitdroid
17:53.35kuzewhey, I was only playing with it
17:53.52kuzewI want to go back to maemo! :P
17:53.58DocScrutinizerno, they were playing with you ;-P
17:54.02n900-dkbut no phone yet?
17:54.27DocScrutinizerand they played evel prank on you, as it seems it's impossible to uninstall nitdroid
17:54.31kuzewn900-dk: no phone yet, I can't even read the sim card correctly
17:54.41n900-dkdamit
17:54.54DocScrutinizerreflash
17:55.18kuzewyeah, I'm fearing I'd have to do that... :/
17:55.21DocScrutinizerI haven't heard of a single recover from borked mutiboot
17:56.17kuzewIf Android has the jffs2 kernel module, I'd be able to mount the partition to fix my mutliboot item
17:56.47DocScrutinizernitdroid dudes are happy when you get THEIR system to run. Don't care at all about concurrent alternative OS or even uninstalling nitdroid (and multiboot)
17:56.48kuzewit's funny, I can mount my home and opt (ext3 and vfat) fine
17:57.11kuzewhmm, not cool
17:57.12DocScrutinizerubifs
17:57.17DocScrutinizernot jffs2
17:57.21kuzewoh?
17:57.44DocScrutinizerafaik
17:58.30kuzewit's ubifs+jffs2 I think
17:58.53DocScrutinizererrr
17:59.08DocScrutinizerhow's that?
17:59.34kuzewhmm, I'm confused now
17:59.47DocScrutinizeryeah, like all nitdroid devels
17:59.50DocScrutinizer:-P
17:59.52kuzewhaha
17:59.59kuzewyou're right DocScrutinizer
18:00.02kuzewubifs
18:00.56kuzewthe flasher doesn't have anyway to dump the rootfs image, right?
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18:01.49DocScrutinizermultiboot is *EVIL* and deprecated, as it breaks/conflicts with any other normal action of kernel, like installing powerkernel, updating stock kernel, adding uBoot for meego, you name it
18:02.26DocScrutinizerno, you can't dump rootfs via flasher (unless there's a hidden cmdline option for that)
18:02.35kuzewheh, right then
18:03.26DocScrutinizeryou *could* dump the raw NAND image under nitdroid
18:03.49DocScrutinizermaybe even loopmount that dumpfile via ubifs later
18:04.17kuzewyeah, I was just looking into that
18:04.59DocScrutinizerof curse if friggin nitridiot supports mounting ubifs, that'd be even better
18:05.13DocScrutinizerooh, curse - yeah :-P
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18:05.32kuzewI'm working with the android debug bridge, likes to crap out a lot, I'm even surprised to see it working
18:05.50DocScrutinizernfi
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18:06.32DocScrutinizeryou could as well tell me about win-P7 secret registry tunes ;-)
18:06.45kuzewI don't run windows
18:06.54DocScrutinizerI don't run google
18:07.54kuzewheh, otherwise you could find out where I am and what I search for the most...
18:08.39DocScrutinizerjust heard they invented new craplocks there, while all the sane unix world tries to get rid of *locks as much as possible ;-D
18:09.26kuzewhah
18:09.42DocScrutinizerwait... wastelocks?
18:09.58DocScrutinizeraaah wakelocks
18:10.16kuzewoh now I get it
18:10.17kuzewhaha
18:10.38kuzewyeah, the big kernel lock was removed a few revs ago
18:12.21kuzew# cat /proc/wakelocks
18:12.25kuzewyep! still there
18:13.20kuzewnow, time to figure out which /dev/mtd I can dump
18:14.19DocScrutinizerhttp://lwn.net/Articles/319860/ (<-wakelocks)
18:14.27kuzewyeah, I was just reading that :P
18:15.24merlin1991kulve: I reflashed the n900
18:15.29merlin1991installed extra decoders from -devel
18:15.37merlin1991and 1.0.7 works just fine
18:18.18kuzewdamn, I wish the power47 kernel update didn't remove my uboot
18:21.12jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: you need some *locks
18:21.27jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: to make sure that other thread isn't messing up your memory
18:21.40DocScrutinizerjacekowski: sure, like mutex. But I don't like fakelocks
18:22.14DocScrutinizerand I don't like andridiot
18:22.14jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well implementation is other thing
18:22.39DocScrutinizernah, adridiot's wakelocks are definitely wrong
18:24.27DocScrutinizerif I want to protect my embedded device against runaway processes, I get some ulimits, quotas, and OOMd and busy-process-killer-daemon
18:25.56DocScrutinizerwe discussed that at Openmoko several times (particularly me and raster)
18:26.46DocScrutinizerFSO has a resource "CPU" that you can allocate
18:27.25n900-dkMohammadAG: How come Sociality isn't named Sociality?
18:28.34DocScrutinizerif you think you need BS like dsme to auto-restart segfaulting processes, then that DSME as well needs to handle CPU resource, to avoid system suspending when such a supervised app segfaults
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18:30.54DocScrutinizerand maemo evidently obviously doesn't need any such things like wakelocks, CPU resource and suspend-to-ram, as SmartReflex and a proper driver design handle power just nicely
18:31.52kuzewthat I agree with
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18:32.16kuzewSmartReflex doesn't work for me though
18:32.32DocScrutinizerso all it'd need in e.g. maemo to achieve a fool-app proof thing was a kind of automatic powertop killing runaway apps
18:32.35kuzewthen again, I just hit a checkbox, so I don't know what they are doing is proper
18:33.05DocScrutinizerkuzew: what you think of is just a little part of the whole SR thing
18:33.20kuzewSR?
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18:33.36DocScrutinizersmartreflex
18:33.43kuzewah
18:35.08DocScrutinizerSR is a bunch of measures to minimize system power consumption. Most of them are on a chip level and can't get switched on/off
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18:36.07kuzewah, I didn't read the ARM docs
18:36.22DocScrutinizerothers are for example suspending of particular subsystems when not in use, like the ULPI bus from CPU to MUSB core USB controller
18:37.35DocScrutinizerthe /sys/*/smartreflex is only about the voltage regulators *automatic* adjustment via a dedicated I2C connection to CPU
18:37.42kuzewah
18:38.36DocScrutinizeryou still can adjust the voltages 'manually', i.e. via software, which maemo (kernel) is doing. AFAIK
18:39.26DocScrutinizerother aspects of whole SR are not at all affected
18:39.39kuzewI was going to ask, but yeah
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18:40.28kuzewHmm, ULPI is neat
18:41.49DocScrutinizeryeah, and it's from MUSB to PHY, not to CPU. I was wrong there, that's in fact yet another bus that has its own suspend control
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18:43.33DocScrutinizerand this is one of the features of SR: fine grained suspend/power control for subsystems
18:44.12DocScrutinizerso suspending whole system like adridiot does is a rather awkward thing
18:44.26kuzewyeah, I see that a _LOT_ in dmesg
18:45.05kuzewdoes the OMAP/DSP also have a sleep state you can put it in?
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18:45.12DocScrutinizersure
18:45.31kuzewrather, is it being used?
18:45.38DocScrutinizerI'd bet it is
18:45.54SpeedEvil_everything_ has a sleep state.
18:46.08DocScrutinizerthough that's quite probably burried inside the closed drivers for DSP
18:46.30kuzewyuck, they are closed as well?
18:46.44DocScrutinizeryes, DSP lib is closed
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18:47.30DocScrutinizernot the kernel/sys api though, I'd guess
18:47.57kuzewyeah, I'd think that would be open, the drivers I would understand being closed
18:48.06GNUtoo|laptopI saw on oe some dsp bios stuff, but I was told at the same time that the DSP side was proprietary
18:48.32GNUtoo|laptopbasically there are some CPU side  FLOSS stuff
18:48.36GNUtoo|laptopfor instance gst-dsp
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18:48.51GNUtoo|laptopbut personally I prefer the CPU
18:48.58GNUtoo|laptopthe CPU reads more formats
18:49.12GNUtoo|laptopmaybe it consumes more battery tough
18:49.16SpeedEvilAnd uses more power
18:49.31SpeedEvilIt's not - so - important if you have the screen at maximum.
18:49.35kuzewDSP can be more efficient at times, depending what you are doing
18:49.41SpeedEvilBut at minimum brightness it makes quite a difference.
18:49.55DocScrutinizerDSP bridge: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain
18:51.23DocScrutinizerDSP is not per se better on power conservation. It's simply faster on some special tasks
18:51.42kuzewyes
18:51.49DocScrutinizerDSP easily might eat more power when idling than the CPU
18:52.15kuzewyou'd hope it be in a sleep state then
18:52.30DocScrutinizerthat's the topic we just discussed
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18:54.38DocScrutinizeryou should't expect e.g. mp3-playback via DSP to be always better on power than doing same thing via CPU
18:54.56DocScrutinizershould *not*
18:56.46SpeedEvilIMO, you probably should, if you are just asking about mp3 decoding.
18:56.52SpeedEvilAnd not streaming to the DAC
18:56.52kuzewwelll
18:56.54SpeedEvilBut...
18:57.40SpeedEvilThat reminds me - I meant to look at the functional block diagram, and find out if the DMA unit can stay awake without the CPU core, DMAing a decoded raw audio to the DAC
18:58.11kuzewyou mean DMAed into the DSP then to the DAC
18:58.35DocScrutinizerwell, the DSP can decode your whole song in 0.4s while CPU takes 3s for that. But then the DSP keeps eating power for the rest of the song, pushing bytes out the DAC, while CPU could sleep most of the time, or even offload to a DMA and sleep all of the time
18:59.19SpeedEvilI mean - if the DSP can be used to decode - say - 3s of audio, and go back to sleep, and then the CPU setup DMA to push this to the speakers, go back to sleep, and wakeup when there is .5s later
18:59.34SpeedEvil.5s left, and repeat
19:00.27DocScrutinizeryes, that'd maybe the optimum, depending on how much better DSP is, compared to the overhead in CPU setting it up and moving data around
19:00.51SpeedEvilwhere 3 may be 30
19:01.55DocScrutinizerit's a non trivial evaluation
19:02.22DocScrutinizeryou'd finally have to implement both concepts and compare
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19:02.57SpeedEvilIndeed.
19:03.06SpeedEvilWell - not really.
19:03.25SpeedEvilThe 'if it can DMA it out to the DAC' is a clear winner if it's the CPU or the DSP doing it
19:03.32SpeedEvilthe rest is a matter of question.
19:03.43DocScrutinizeryep
19:03.55kulvemerlin1991: ok, good to know
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19:17.19hajannoying.. my N900 seems to loose contact with the SIM all the time... I tried cleaning the connectors but it doesn't seem to help...
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19:25.18SpeedEvilhaj: Same here - I need to return it for warranty. It is a known failure mode apparantly.
19:26.42hajuhm... mine is out of warranty... wonder if it's an expensive fix..
19:28.20SpeedEvilAh.
19:28.33SpeedEvilI'm unsure that it's a simple fix.
19:28.46SpeedEvilI would quite like to know what's wrong.
19:29.30hajSpeedEvil: when did yours start doing it?
19:29.37hajdid you try another sim?
19:30.04SpeedEvilhaj: umm... hangon
19:32.56SpeedEvilAt least last august
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19:36.00hajannoying...
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19:36.58davidehello
19:37.49hajSpeedEvil: does your phone also keep asking you for the PIN-code? Mine did that the other day, but now it seems it just looses contact for a few sec. and then it works again..
19:40.05SpeedEvilNo
19:40.11SpeedEvilI've never set a pin.
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19:53.13DocScrutinizerhaj: check syslog/dmesg
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20:42.55wazdwoo, congats finns :)
20:44.31wazdoooooh
20:46.22achipathey're really on fire
20:47.51wazdhumiliation :)
20:49.40sp3000well now I feel bad for fasth
20:49.51sp3000that like totally messes up his avg
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20:50.55moo__good evening
20:51.00moo__riddle me this
20:51.41moo__why does power kernel cause 1000 wakeups/second
20:51.51moo__where as stock only causes 300/s?
20:52.24moo__this was tested on a freshly flashed device
20:55.20moo__son of a bitch
20:55.23SpeedEvilPastebin.
20:55.25moo__its blood!
20:55.40moo__Who wrote the pastebinnit in devel?
20:56.21*** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@89.241.12.22)
20:56.39moo__ok, scratch everything I just said
20:56.50piggzdoes qputenv("N900_PORTRAIT_SENSORS", "1");  work for a qml app?  it doesnt seem to be
20:56.55moo__just ran another powertop and got the longest sleep time I have ever seen
20:57.13moo__2957ms!
20:57.18moo__not even offline mode!
20:59.07achipapiggz: which mobility are you using ?
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20:59.18piggzachipa: 1.1
20:59.44achipai don't think anything prior to 1.2 final has that tweak...
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21:00.18piggzachipa: ok, i was going to update to 1.2 anyway
21:01.07SpeedEvilmoo__: yes - that should be about what you should get.
21:01.25SpeedEvilmoo__: In general - look at time in C4, rather than wakeups - at least in the first instance.
21:03.06DocScrutinizerqt-mobility, sensors, portrait - MUHAHAHAHAHAAAA
21:03.25moo__SpeedEvil: yeah
21:03.35moo__SpeedEvil: this is the longest I have evr seen
21:03.55moo__for some reason prior to flash I was getting >1000
21:04.23moo__now im gonna have to CHECK every peice that I install
21:05.22moo__to find the f***** that was causing all thos wkups
21:07.08DocScrutinizermoo__: unplug charger, lsmod|grep bq2
21:08.54moo__you are suggesting the bq module causes shitloads of WU?
21:09.10moo__because I have rmmod it and tested
21:09.13moo__loads of times
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21:14.51moo__sonovva bitch
21:14.56moo__profilesx
21:15.01moo__pile of shite
21:15.20moo__causes an extra ~200 HW wakeups/second
21:15.45moo__kernel wakeups
21:15.50moo__interrupt 56
21:15.56moo__gp timers i believe
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21:16.57moo__well...extra profiles are over-rated anyway
21:17.05SpeedEvilReport it as a bug.
21:17.29moo__maemo seems totally fucked
21:17.42moo__there is complete fragmentation across all the repos
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21:23.16moo__yup, profilesx==gay
21:23.58moo__did anyone figure out how to convert a backupmenu style opt+rootfs archive into a flash bin yet?
21:28.16kuzewthat would of been nice
21:28.22moo__DocScrutinizer: has quit?
21:28.26moo__wut?
21:29.36moo__SpeedEvil: so now I have apt-get purged profilesx, the WU wont go away
21:29.41moo__can you explain that?
21:30.08SpeedEvilI ave no clue.
21:30.55moo__SpeedEvil: is it possible to get rid of dsme?
21:31.11moo__i.e. turn of wd timers first
21:31.31SpeedEvilIn principle yes.
21:31.36moo__in practice?
21:31.39SpeedEvilIn practice, I question how much it'll help.
21:31.43moo__ok
21:32.14SpeedEvilIn that it gets ~10 days of battery life offline.
21:32.37moo__you said before
21:33.15SpeedEvilI gorget stuff.
21:33.32moo__SpeedEvil: have you installed the enhanced busybox package?
21:33.48SpeedEvilNo.
21:33.52SpeedEvilI see little or no point.
21:33.58SpeedEvilI have installed gnu tools though.
21:34.13moo__what is included in the gnu tools package?
21:34.25moo__I use the console a lot, is it wirth my investigation?
21:34.50SpeedEvilgnu find, ...
21:34.54moo__k
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21:49.34moo__SpeedEvil: do you use the BFS kernel?
21:50.26moo__for that matter does anyone here use BFS kernel?
21:50.33moo__does hawaii hang out here?
21:51.01piggzachipa: i installed libqtm-12*, changed my qml to 'import QtMobility.sensors 1.2' and added the improt path in my main()...but it complains on startup that it cant find sensor 1.2
21:51.04piggz?
21:56.14SpeedEvilmoo__: no,
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22:14.36DocScrutinizermoo__: I sugest you stop posting for 300s after each line ending with a "?" or otherwise requiring any interaction. Your style is kinda spammy
22:15.36DocScrutinizerpushing out more questions in fast sequence will NOT result in more or better answers - the contrary is the case
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