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| 00:14.45 | tttw | Hello |
| 00:14.51 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps. |
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| 00:52.25 | lcuk | MohammadAG, on your poll, the "Other" entries have 17%, are they listable somewhere? |
| 00:52.26 | lcuk | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/?p=42 |
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| 00:54.24 | MohammadAG | lcuk, they violate facebook's rules, so I didn't include them |
| 00:54.41 | MohammadAG | (and one violates Apple's rules) :P |
| 00:56.02 | lcuk | lol |
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| 01:06.03 | MohammadAG | also, I'll include the iOS icons for now |
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| 01:06.14 | MohammadAG | hopefully some designer will help me replace them asap |
| 01:08.24 | lolcat | MohammadAG: Cisco iOS or Apple iOS? |
| 01:09.28 | MohammadAG | Apple iOS |
| 01:13.50 | lolcat | I think it is confusing they named them the same |
| 01:13.57 | lolcat | They should have made a better name |
| 01:14.20 | lcuk | they need a poll to choose names! :P |
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| 01:15.04 | lolcat | lcuk: Nah, their name would just end up being: "Other" every single time |
| 01:22.20 | MohammadAG | lcuk, nope, they can sue cisco |
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| 01:32.53 | fusi[n900] | oh crap |
| 01:33.12 | fusi[n900] | just overwrote /etc/modules accidentally |
| 01:33.40 | fusi[n900] | copypasta from website and copied terminating > |
| 01:34.08 | fusi[n900] | so ended up executing nano > /etc/modules |
| 01:34.13 | fusi[n900] | :/ |
| 01:34.48 | fusi[n900] | would someone mind pastebinning what the contents of this file should like please |
| 01:35.03 | fusi[n900] | llook* |
| 01:35.28 | SpeedEvil | Empty is functioanlly equivalent. |
| 01:35.37 | SpeedEvil | It's got nothing but comments |
| 01:35.54 | fusi[n900] | ah jolly good |
| 01:35.58 | fusi[n900] | thank you |
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| 01:39.48 | MohammadAG | wtf |
| 01:40.02 | MohammadAG | Google forced me to change my Youtube password due to suspicious activity |
| 01:40.15 | fusi[n900] | o.0 |
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| 01:46.48 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha |
| 01:47.45 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I wouldn't have expected anything else than suspicious activities when *you*'re using youtube ;-D |
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| 01:50.25 | DocScrutinizer | just make sure it's not been this request that was the real suspicious activity - I.E. a phishing hoax |
| 01:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | hey, that's cool! freenode now filters your password, so you can't type it accidentally, like '****' |
| 01:52.39 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
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| 01:53.20 | DocScrutinizer | whenever I type my password ******, it comes to channel as **** |
| 01:53.26 | DocScrutinizer | see? |
| 01:53.29 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 01:53.49 | DocScrutinizer | now please change your facebook password, there's been suspicious activity! |
| 01:54.09 | DocScrutinizer | old password: |
| 01:55.02 | DocScrutinizer | <facebook> Please enter your old password: |
| 01:56.05 | DocScrutinizer | <yawn> |
| 01:56.16 | fusi[n900] | wannawrite a script to make the n900 keyb leds do a knightrider thing when slid out :) |
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| 01:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | duh, isn't that just *too* simple? |
| 01:56.49 | nox- | i doubt its single leds under each key... |
| 01:57.01 | fusi[n900] | there are 6 |
| 01:57.01 | DocScrutinizer | no, but 6 LEDS |
| 01:57.06 | nox- | ah |
| 01:57.17 | fusi[n900] | doc im a shell noob :) |
| 01:57.48 | lcuk | fusi[n900], easy is making the script to do it. hard is integrating it into a complete app to make use of it - MohammadAG will show you the scripts to do KR |
| 01:58.25 | fusi[n900] | was hoping there was smt like init.d but for keyb events or smt |
| 01:58.29 | fusi[n900] | :D |
| 01:58.33 | DocScrutinizer | for I in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo 100 >LED$I/brightness; sleep 1; echo 0>LED$I/brightness; done |
| 01:58.43 | fusi[n900] | i have little grasp of linux :( |
| 01:58.58 | fusi[n900] | kewl |
| 01:59.08 | lcuk | so to light a single led you have a bit of a learning curve! |
| 01:59.19 | lcuk | understands that dilemma |
| 01:59.23 | DocScrutinizer | for linking to slider-open, search tmo for keyword playswoosh |
| 01:59.34 | fusi[n900] | cool thanks doc |
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| 02:02.05 | DocScrutinizer | fusi[n900]: anyway you'll run into race problems with mce, which is controlling kbd LEDS |
| 02:02.39 | fusi[n900] | could i pause/block mce? |
| 02:02.53 | fusi[n900] | mm |
| 02:03.23 | DocScrutinizer | you may want to assume all leds are 'on' and rather temporaray set /current to 0 and then back to it's original value |
| 02:03.52 | DocScrutinizer | fusi[n900]: stopping mce is possible but highly troublesome |
| 02:03.52 | fusi[n900] | are the led levels readable? |
| 02:03.59 | fusi[n900] | mwaha |
| 02:04.07 | fusi[n900] | ok |
| 02:04.24 | DocScrutinizer | sure, just cat kb-led$I/brightness |
| 02:04.41 | DocScrutinizer | or /current for this purpose |
| 02:04.44 | fusi[n900] | im thinking mce would only turn them on/off when ambient light thesh is passed |
| 02:04.48 | fusi[n900] | cool |
| 02:04.52 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 02:05.02 | DocScrutinizer | but also only when slider opened |
| 02:05.13 | fusi[n900] | i could just store them, do the lil anim then restore |
| 02:05.17 | fusi[n900] | yea |
| 02:05.26 | fusi[n900] | im seeing things about dbus |
| 02:05.47 | DocScrutinizer | so whenever ambient light is low enough so you see your KR light, it will just get ramped up by mce the moment your slide open trigger fires |
| 02:06.32 | fusi[n900] | aye thers only 1 tevent |
| 02:06.35 | fusi[n900] | mm |
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| 02:06.44 | DocScrutinizer | exactly, wait 1s for mce to finish its cruft, store values, do your thing, then restore values to original |
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| 02:06.53 | MohammadAG | but first, he'll paste a link to his facebook app http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1001474#post1001474 |
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| 02:07.03 | fusi[n900] | ill have a play and let u know :) |
| 02:07.22 | MohammadAG | KR.sh, good times, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/KR.sh |
| 02:07.45 | fusi[n900] | thanks for the help :) |
| 02:08.04 | MohammadAG | lcuk, I actually modified the vumeter app to pulsate the keyboard, just never released it (I think?) |
| 02:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | fusi[n900]: just don't mess with current too much. It's unclear how much current the LEDs really can cope with. So you might kill them by setting ledN/current to a too high value |
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| 02:08.25 | fusi[n900] | eep |
| 02:08.35 | fusi[n900] | kk |
| 02:09.15 | fusi[n900] | they really do give you full controldont they :D |
| 02:09.28 | DocScrutinizer | sometmes they do, yes :-P |
| 02:09.36 | lcuk | on the plus side, the hot leds will be nice finger warmers |
| 02:09.52 | fusi[n900] | i came from a winmo touchpro >.< |
| 02:09.55 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: not really |
| 02:09.56 | fusi[n900] | lol |
| 02:10.33 | MohammadAG | lcuk, a better finger warmer; get kernel sources, while true; do make -j 9 && make clean; done |
| 02:10.43 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: the flash LEDs will, not the kbd LEDs though |
| 02:10.43 | fusi[n900] | hrhr |
| 02:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: exactly |
| 02:11.03 | MohammadAG | I use it as a room heater more than a finger warmer though |
| 02:11.11 | MohammadAG | it's cheaper than gas these days |
| 02:11.33 | fusi[n900] | yer savecpu is warning me regularly |
| 02:11.38 | fusi[n900] | :F |
| 02:11.55 | MohammadAG | my laptop goes up to 80C when compiling |
| 02:12.18 | MohammadAG | I'm pretty sure that shortens its life span, but by the time it dies I'm sure we'll have i12s and i20s around |
| 02:12.25 | fusi[n900] | i had a p3 1ghz that i topped 100c with :D |
| 02:12.31 | fusi[n900] | aah the good ol days |
| 02:12.53 | fusi[n900] | abit vp6 mobo <3 |
| 02:13.24 | GAN900 | P3 pff |
| 02:13.33 | GAN900 | I had a dual G5 |
| 02:13.34 | fusi[n900] | heh |
| 02:13.44 | GAN900 | One of the liquid cooled models. |
| 02:14.10 | GAN900 | So hot Apple had to replace it with a Mac Pro for fear of lawsuits. *g* |
| 02:14.11 | fusi[n900] | i had a stock fan Mwah |
| 02:14.18 | fusi[n900] | lol |
| 02:14.32 | fusi[n900] | oh dear |
| 02:14.40 | fusi[n900] | win4u |
| 02:14.54 | GAN900 | What was everybody's takeaway from Intel's "3D" chip process announcement? |
| 02:15.15 | fusi[n900] | wasnt listening ;o |
| 02:16.16 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: next week meego meeting in Paris?? |
| 02:16.26 | fusi[n900] | i can has to write script me go now byebye! |
| 02:16.30 | GAN900 | Paris? |
| 02:17.20 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 00:44:26] <khorben> I'll be at their dev event next week in Paris |
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| 02:17.40 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 00:44:53] <khorben> yeah during solutions linux |
| 02:18.11 | GAN900 | Dunno. Is it an AppUp thing? |
| 02:18.20 | DocScrutinizer | a wut? |
| 02:18.58 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 02:19.04 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 00:45:00] <khorben> intel appup |
| 02:19.24 | DocScrutinizer | nfc |
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| 02:47.02 | pauly | hi i have n900 |
| 02:49.18 | SpeedEvil | Congratulations. |
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| 02:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | enjoy! |
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| 06:20.26 | Natanaiel | can u open https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/ ? it tells me Access Denied! |
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| 06:27.12 | vldcnst | 403 here, too. |
| 06:29.41 | Natanaiel | 3 of my catalogues are unavailable for this reason |
| 06:29.57 | Natanaiel | nokia SSU, nokia applications & OVI |
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| 07:08.25 | pupnik__ | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110505/14444714170/homeland-security-demands-mozilla-remove-firefox-extension-that-redirects-seized-domains.shtml Homeland security is an illegal organization |
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| 08:26.15 | Termana | good morning |
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| 09:10.09 | pupnik | Pupnik "Evil Ram" version: http://www.beastsofwar.com/rama/minirama-scifi/pupnik-evil-ram-version/ |
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| 09:59.43 | rcg | pupnik: i got no clue what this is.. looks pretty damn nice though ;) |
| 10:00.39 | pupnik | that artist has a whole website full of amaaazing miniatures |
| 10:01.19 | pupnik | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wdkIFdzbrpY/TB4YboSR5gI/AAAAAAAABZw/pEqv0y9eXJY/s1600/Untitled-2.jpg about the size of a bottle cap |
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| 10:03.09 | rcg | sweet.. must be a hell of a lot of work.. gotta hit the road though... bbl |
| 10:05.39 | pupnik | yeap |
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| 11:00.14 | Natanaiel | can anybody open https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/ ? |
| 11:00.24 | Natanaiel | Access denied for me! |
| 11:00.51 | Natanaiel | I cant's access to Nokia SSU, Nokia applications & OVI |
| 11:01.32 | Natanaiel | I don't know what's wrong with thease catalogues?! |
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| 11:14.07 | ShadowJK | you always get access denied with the browser |
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| 11:33.30 | Natanaiel | ShadowJK: I always get access denied! with or without browser! |
| 11:34.43 | SpeedEvil | you're trying to download it how? |
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| 11:35.36 | Natanaiel | thoses catalogues don't upgrade & I always get error 403 for them |
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| 11:39.49 | Natanaiel | they failed to refresh |
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| 11:46.37 | cityLights | hi, I am tring to use gobject.timeout_add in a python script and somehow it all loops |
| 11:46.39 | cityLights | http://dpaste.com/539788/ |
| 11:46.56 | cityLights | can anyone pls explain what I did wrong? |
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| 11:54.47 | otwieracz | Hello. |
| 11:56.23 | otwieracz | Is available, to communicate from PC with my n810 through virtual com ports by usb cable? |
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| 11:58.43 | robbiethe1st | otwieracz: Yes, I think. How, I dunno. |
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| 12:00.38 | otwieracz | I want use mapping program basing on NMEA data send from PC. |
| 12:01.19 | otwieracz | usbserial at n810, I think. |
| 12:01.23 | otwieracz | But what at Windows? |
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| 12:02.07 | pupnik | http://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html |
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| 12:21.52 | Venemo | MohammadAG, ping |
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| 12:41.01 | Guest73711 | So I'm about to reflash my phone as it's stuck in a reboot loop. I'm wondering what's the latest and greatest that I should flash? The forum has become quite a mess with the 200+ page long threads. How is the community version coming? |
| 12:41.04 | otwieracz | How to get /dev/ttyUSB0 at n810? |
| 12:41.20 | Venemo | Guest73711, see |
| 12:41.21 | Venemo | ~flashing |
| 12:41.22 | infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 12:41.44 | Venemo | after the reflash, you can install the Community SSU, but I'd recommend not to until a recent issue with Qt will be solved |
| 12:42.09 | Guest73711 | Ok, see that's the type of thing I'd have no clue about. |
| 12:42.13 | Guest73711 | Thanks. |
| 12:45.04 | Guest73711 | So PR 1.3 then? |
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| 12:45.55 | Venemo | Guest73711, PR 1.3 Global Combined |
| 12:46.28 | Guest73711 | Venemo: how usable is the community SSU? I'd image a problem with qt is going to cause pretty big dependency issues but assuming that gets resolved how workable is it? |
| 12:46.52 | Venemo | Guest73711, it is very nice stuff |
| 12:47.16 | Guest73711 | Hmm I don't see "Global Combined" under tablets-dev.nokia.com |
| 12:47.18 | Venemo | Guest73711, the only problem is that the updated Qt version (4.7.2) has a borked raster graphics system |
| 12:47.40 | Venemo | Guest73711, RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin 200174197 PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 |
| 12:47.52 | Guest73711 | Ok, cool. |
| 12:47.54 | Guest73711 | Thanks. |
| 12:48.28 | Guest73711 | And what eMMC should I use? |
| 12:48.41 | Venemo | latest |
| 12:48.54 | Venemo | RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin 262090105 eMMC content 10.2010.13-2 Latest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N900 |
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| 12:50.16 | Guest73711 | Ok, any current issues with the Power Kernel? |
| 12:51.42 | Venemo | if there are, I don't know about 'em |
| 12:52.50 | Guest73711 | Cool, thanks. I know last time I flashed there were issues with fcamera |
| 12:53.25 | pupnik | hey are there any more dev units for n900? |
| 12:53.35 | pupnik | i have some people who deserve developer n900s |
| 12:53.46 | pupnik | X-Fade: Jaffa |
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| 12:58.13 | markinfo | is there Obex server installed in n900? |
| 13:00.50 | markinfo | I get always in Blueman from my Notebook - Failed to open "obex://[5C:57:C8:77:DD:69]/" |
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| 13:12.55 | Venemo | [14:53] <pupnik> i have some people who deserve developer n900s -> contact qgil |
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| 13:24.48 | pupnik | where can i upload a mp3 |
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| 13:26.16 | SpeedEvil | youtube |
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| 13:42.47 | otwieracz | How to enable virtual COM communication between PC and n810 through bluetooth? |
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| 13:46.35 | cityLights | SpeedEvil: do you use python? |
| 13:46.38 | cityLights | I seek help |
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| 14:10.56 | Jaffa | pupnik: The Council manage the Developer Device Queue, for which there is a wiki page |
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| 14:14.43 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: what devices are you managing there? |
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| 14:14.47 | DocScrutinizer | now? |
| 14:14.53 | pupnik | Jaffa: BE PART OF THE |
| 14:15.27 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 14:15.32 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: DO YOU SUCK THE COCK |
| 14:15.40 | pupnik | DO YOU SLURP THE JISM |
| 14:15.52 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:15.58 | *** kick/#maemo [pupnik!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 14:16.01 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:16.34 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 14:16.37 | pupnik | sorry |
| 14:17.03 | pupnik | i hate the doofus murderers |
| 14:17.29 | pupnik | i have so much awesome music to share |
| 14:19.12 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: you gotta hear my music |
| 14:19.21 | pupnik | doc|home: you suck israeli cock |
| 14:19.28 | cityLights | DocScrutinizer: was waiting |
| 14:19.48 | cityLights | can you pls look at http://dpaste.com/539788/ |
| 14:19.59 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: next one is a kickban |
| 14:20.05 | pupnik | why |
| 14:20.36 | pupnik | jew ? |
| 14:20.40 | DocScrutinizer | this is a worksafe channel |
| 14:20.52 | pupnik | reality free? |
| 14:20.54 | cityLights | right, and I need gobject help |
| 14:20.59 | DocScrutinizer | and insults are not tolerated |
| 14:21.39 | DocScrutinizer | as I know you for ages now, I'll help you... |
| 14:21.42 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:21.50 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: i'll discuss things with you |
| 14:21.54 | *** mode/#maemo [+q pupnik!*@*] by DocScrutinizer |
| 14:22.21 | DocScrutinizer | ping me if you got sober again |
| 14:22.27 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:24.13 | cehteh | uhm .. popcorn time? |
| 14:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, my backscroll visible is like 30 lines |
| 14:25.36 | DocScrutinizer | and I'm just looking at it fist time since hours |
| 14:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 16:15:32] <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: DO YOU SUCK THE COCK |
| 14:26.31 | DocScrutinizer | is the first thing somebody says to me, before I even got my morning coffee |
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| 14:33.28 | lolcat | Why is Android so flashy? |
| 14:33.46 | lolcat | The N900 is the best communications device I know |
| 14:33.55 | lolcat | But android looks so SLICK |
| 14:35.25 | *** join/#maemo maybeWTF (cl@p5B16611C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:35.53 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: afaik there are no more devel devices available from Nokia. Quim last time said "this is the last devdev shipping ever" - ask GAN900 |
| 14:36.15 | *** join/#maemo cityLights (~cityLight@98.158.117.139) |
| 14:36.41 | lolcat | I didn't get a device from Nokia :( |
| 14:36.48 | cehteh | http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/05/07/1215246/Micro-SD-Card-Slot-Abused-As-VGA-Port |
| 14:36.53 | cehteh | haha .. nice hack |
| 14:37.15 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: you're applying for a /nokia/troll cloak, you can't get both |
| 14:38.04 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: SD card slot is good for a lot of things |
| 14:38.12 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Who is our GC? |
| 14:38.20 | DocScrutinizer | x-fade |
| 14:38.25 | cehteh | but in many devices you have only one to fry :P |
| 14:38.25 | dm8tbr | that's because it's simply SDIO :) |
| 14:38.42 | dm8tbr | wifi is often connected by SDIO |
| 14:38.45 | lolcat | X-Fade: May I have a /nokia/opensourcesomething cloack? |
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| 14:39.28 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: this is maemo, not nokia |
| 14:40.15 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: exactly |
| 14:40.57 | lolcat | Is there any issues in buying display N900's? |
| 14:41.13 | DocScrutinizer | the dummy devices? |
| 14:41.55 | DocScrutinizer | I think SpeedEvil found they're largely useless, except for the stylus |
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| 14:44.42 | lolcat | No, there is a shop in Norway who has two real N900eds used as display models |
| 14:44.51 | lolcat | THey use real models so you can try them out in the shop |
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| 14:45.54 | lolcat | They apparently have two |
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| 14:47.26 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: It was a friend - but yes. |
| 14:47.31 | SpeedEvil | It's 100% custom |
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| 14:48.57 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: nothing special with these, except I would get me a fresh battery same time I buy any of those |
| 14:50.48 | cityLights | when I issue this command gobject.timeout_add(wait_duration,callback) does it issue the callback straight away or does it wait first? |
| 14:51.01 | ShadowJK | I saw display models in a shop. Some cheeky cunt had entered a lock code. |
| 14:51.06 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: make sure you get them with original package and accessory, or a decent rabate on price |
| 14:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | heh, yeah. make sure there's no lockcode as well, or even more substantial down on price |
| 14:53.15 | psycho_oreos | make sure the accessory works and there's no accessory left out |
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| 14:56.11 | SpeedEvil | Making sure it's not barred or locked too |
| 14:56.12 | psycho_oreos | the display models I saw were all fake (you can easily tell they had silver case for the screen portion). Also the cheeky assistant installed a few things like frozen-bubble, IME input method and few other things (which screwed up the ability to bring up extra chars) |
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| 14:58.20 | psycho_oreos | for me, I also make sure that I had the hw rev of 2204 not 2101 |
| 15:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: that's hard to accomplish |
| 15:03.39 | DocScrutinizer | as those salesmen have no clue how to determine hw rev |
| 15:04.24 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, I'd demo the device prior to purchasing. They allow you do that when I was in HK (though they were rather amused at me tapping away on the console) |
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| 15:04.45 | *** part/#maemo otwieracz (~gonet9@v6.gen2.org) |
| 15:05.11 | DocScrutinizer | well, if you can check the device before purchase, then no problem anyway, no? |
| 15:05.37 | DocScrutinizer | I was thinking along ebay purchase |
| 15:05.50 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 15:05.54 | psycho_oreos | not always :) but at least you've ruled most of the potential issues with N900 or better yet if they tried to sell you a fake N900 :D |
| 15:05.57 | psycho_oreos | ahh those |
| 15:06.54 | DocScrutinizer | wasn't there an app called healthcheck or sth? ;-D |
| 15:07.13 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Should I buy both? |
| 15:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | never tested it, but I'd think it ought to be the exactly right app for this purpose |
| 15:08.00 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: how do you think I could possibly answer that question? |
| 15:08.08 | psycho_oreos | ahh yeah I've ran that program before, couldn't understand what was its usefulness when you could pretty much do everything from the console :D |
| 15:08.47 | lolcat | First time I bougth a display model it was without the carger. So I got a usb cable and some converter thing. It had a tiny scratch in the screen, and the stylus was gone (didn't notice the stylus untill afterwards) but I got it quite cheap. |
| 15:09.43 | DocScrutinizer | well, I'd like to get working devices that are <100$ anyway |
| 15:09.54 | psycho_oreos | my second n900 didn't come with nokia A/V cable and headset doesn't work with n900 (it worked with n95-1 however on the contrary) |
| 15:10.02 | DocScrutinizer | I'd stop eating for a week to afford it |
| 15:10.15 | lolcat | Les than $100? I think that would be hard |
| 15:10.29 | psycho_oreos | well with a functional n900 at this rate :) |
| 15:10.44 | psycho_oreos | let alone running actual maemo OS not symbian dressed up as maemo |
| 15:11.04 | lolcat | I love the IM and skype integration |
| 15:11.09 | lolcat | Everything at one place |
| 15:11.36 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@2001:470:d2ad:1:4a5b:39ff:fe7d:1623) |
| 15:12.47 | psycho_oreos | I liked it because it was an actual linux powered phone, I didn't really care if it was nokia (and not anymore because of Elop). |
| 15:13.19 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (~quassel@p4FCD697B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:14.42 | *** join/#maemo Pavel (~pavel@pool-173-75-5-189.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:16.58 | lolcat | If only they could get the next one with the latest debian. 1gb ram, 1ghz cpu, a better gpu and I can't think of anything else my N900 needs |
| 15:17.20 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 15:19.21 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-114.telpol.net.pl) |
| 15:19.43 | SpeedEvil | Screen taking up a bit more orf the bezel might be nice. |
| 15:19.50 | psycho_oreos | only time will tell |
| 15:20.00 | SpeedEvil | Some better solution to usb socket |
| 15:20.17 | lolcat | We have USB hostmode, isn't that good enough? |
| 15:20.26 | lolcat | I just have to figure out where it is |
| 15:20.32 | lolcat | The shop with the two N900's |
| 15:20.53 | SpeedEvil | I mean mechanical. |
| 15:20.58 | lolcat | Ahh |
| 15:21.12 | lolcat | That I agree with. My N900 is dead for the second time because of it |
| 15:21.16 | lolcat | err, thrid |
| 15:21.22 | SpeedEvil | The 'easy' solution would be to make a low-profile cable |
| 15:21.40 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@118.114.138.124) |
| 15:22.01 | SpeedEvil | http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab/gallery |
| 15:22.04 | SpeedEvil | They even make one |
| 15:22.22 | lolcat | That is why I am asking for a refund, to buy a 'new' N900 and have a few hundred extra for new batteries and such. And a new 5 year warrant will be nice (if the price is over $400, less and it will be 2 years). |
| 15:22.40 | SpeedEvil | 5r year? |
| 15:22.52 | lolcat | Yep |
| 15:22.53 | lolcat | By law |
| 15:23.20 | lolcat | Wich is awesome, since only a fraction of phones lasts longer than 5 years |
| 15:23.53 | lolcat | They have 2 chances to repair the same error. On the thrid time it appears you can demand a refund / a new device. |
| 15:25.20 | lolcat | Could I just go into the shop, get a friend to set a lock code, and then demand a huge discount on one of them. THen I buy the other one at $400 so I get the 5 year warranty. Wichever breaks first I return on the 5 year warranty... |
| 15:25.28 | lolcat | or on the two year probably |
| 15:25.48 | GAN900 | You do realize that government-mandated warranty periods are just factored into the product price, right? |
| 15:26.59 | lolcat | GAN900: Yes and? Most people don't utilize them. I argue every time, say I work customer support so I need to borrow a smartphone while mine is in for repairs. |
| 15:27.15 | lolcat | And I can have NO cost in having phones for the rest of my life |
| 15:28.07 | SpeedEvil | http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4215741/Nokia-may-lag-shift-to-dual-core-phones?cid=NL_EETimesDaily |
| 15:28.12 | SpeedEvil | hahahahahhahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahah |
| 15:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | wtf?? |
| 15:28.51 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-236-183.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 15:29.03 | DocScrutinizer | I *NEED* 8 cores at minimum!!1!111!!!!eleven!!1 |
| 15:29.06 | lolcat | Do maemo support dual-core? |
| 15:29.16 | cehteh | linux supports smp |
| 15:29.20 | lolcat | I would think it does if you make a custom kernel |
| 15:29.25 | lolcat | smp? |
| 15:29.35 | SpeedEvil | lolcat: In principle if you had a dual-core ARM and kernel |
| 15:29.38 | DocScrutinizer | ~wiki smp |
| 15:30.06 | lolcat | SpeedEvil: Or just two of the cpu that is in it? |
| 15:30.49 | SpeedEvil | You'd need arbitrartion logic - the ARM does not support that |
| 15:30.50 | DocScrutinizer | friggin fools |
| 15:30.56 | cehteh | which was the phone with one slow very power conserving cpu and one high performance core? asymetric multiprocessing |
| 15:31.04 | cehteh | i think i like this idea |
| 15:31.06 | DocScrutinizer | those smp fanboys |
| 15:31.08 | psycho_oreos | if the kernel can be made SMP you still need apps to take advantage of SMP |
| 15:31.22 | GAN900 | cehteh, sort of pointless with voltage and mhz scaling. |
| 15:31.32 | cehteh | GAN900: nope its not |
| 15:31.55 | cehteh | even scaling cant be work as well as a chip explicitly designed to run at slow speed |
| 15:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: that's been GTA03-v0.4 |
| 15:32.15 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i meant some commercial one recently released |
| 15:32.56 | lolcat | Why does Nokia repeatedly shoot temselves in the leg? |
| 15:33.08 | cehteh | masochism |
| 15:33.13 | GAN900 | At the extremes, but when do you really need a 50MHz CPU running all the time? |
| 15:33.56 | *** join/#maemo zerojay (~jay@Maemo/community/contributor/zerojay) |
| 15:33.57 | cehteh | GAN900: look at the n900 there are plenty of maintenance tasks which wake up the cpu |
| 15:34.01 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 15:34.58 | cehteh | handling interrupts, caring for watchdogs, sync filesystem, and such |
| 15:35.34 | cehteh | and you know that the 125Mhz mode isnt really power conserving at the normal cpu |
| 15:36.13 | cehteh | but there are arm cores around 100mhz which work *very* power conserving much more than the cortex a7 |
| 15:36.43 | lolcat | Can't they do like the SandyBridge where you turn off the cores that isn't needed? That way dual-core won't use more |
| 15:37.56 | GAN900 | lolcat, they do that and way more |
| 15:38.18 | GAN900 | ARM designs have been doing Sandy Bridge powersaving since forever. |
| 15:38.18 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: we did even way more - our 2nd aux CPU been a really small one that handles all the peripheral things, and it been clocked at some 20NHz afaik |
| 15:38.42 | cehteh | nanohertz awesome :) |
| 15:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | it's called SmartReflex |
| 15:38.54 | DocScrutinizer | M ;-D |
| 15:39.05 | *** join/#maemo Tsarpf (~Tsarpf@a91-156-35-69.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:39.17 | DocScrutinizer | idle power consumption in the uW range |
| 15:39.24 | cehteh | yeah |
| 15:39.53 | lolcat | oO |
| 15:39.56 | DocScrutinizer | would've served for a better replacement for LP5523 et al |
| 15:40.28 | DocScrutinizer | even check WiFi for relevant pkgs to wake main CPU |
| 15:40.33 | lolcat | How much would it cost to make a new N900? With new debian, and the same features. |
| 15:40.39 | cehteh | wonders what powering up a cpu and switching the frequencies alone costs without doing any work |
| 15:40.54 | DocScrutinizer | lol, only ~53mio |
| 15:41.16 | lolcat | ~$53 millions? |
| 15:41.28 | lolcat | Did they use THAT much on the N900? Oo |
| 15:42.05 | cehteh | btw any news on the gta04? |
| 15:42.47 | lolcat | I thougth, steal the motherboard, improve the usb port, change cpu/ram, add a new 4G modem. Get a better battery, and a hdmi port. Then you need software, a dialer, modem drivers, skype, and the maemo layout. |
| 15:42.58 | lolcat | Oh, and a new GPU |
| 15:43.20 | lolcat | What license is Maemo? |
| 15:43.53 | GAN900 | A variety |
| 15:44.30 | cehteh | lolcat: the hardware is very tightly integrated you cant just exchange some parts |
| 15:45.22 | DocScrutinizer | and you'll NEVER get skype |
| 15:45.23 | cehteh | cpu, dsp, ram are on one die .. the gpu maybe as well i dont know, DocScrutinizer prolly knows |
| 15:45.25 | lolcat | is frustrated for the lack of announcments regarding N900'eds sequell |
| 15:45.40 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: is as wee |
| 15:45.42 | DocScrutinizer | well |
| 15:45.56 | cehteh | is baseband on another die? |
| 15:46.02 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:46.08 | lolcat | 4G isn't really a big deal |
| 15:46.12 | cehteh | with gps .. |
| 15:46.21 | DocScrutinizer | RAPUYAMA (+ GAZOO) BB5 modem chipser |
| 15:46.50 | DocScrutinizer | chipset |
| 15:48.16 | DocScrutinizer | the main problem is the sourcing |
| 15:48.20 | GAN900 | So, any bets on what the N950 is running? |
| 15:48.28 | GAN900 | If it's not OMAP3630 |
| 15:48.45 | DocScrutinizer | you simply can't buy small amounts of those nice new SOCs |
| 15:49.12 | lolcat | GAN900: 1GHz dual core, 1GB ram, 60GB ssd, 4G, and mini hdmi |
| 15:49.12 | cehteh | any bets if the n950 will be withdrawn? :) |
| 15:49.21 | GAN900 | lolcat, good for you. |
| 15:49.30 | GAN900 | cehteh, I wouldn't be surprised at this point. |
| 15:49.43 | cehteh | hey its nokia ... nothing surprises me |
| 15:49.49 | lolcat | GAN900: They should have made it like an oQo, they have pretty impressive specs. |
| 15:49.49 | GAN900 | Given the announcements that'd been reversed over the past few years. |
| 15:49.50 | DocScrutinizer | ask timeless |
| 15:50.07 | DocScrutinizer | aiui he's no Nokian anymore |
| 15:50.19 | lolcat | Where can you chat to Nokia people? |
| 15:50.25 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, oh? |
| 15:50.26 | DocScrutinizer | nowhere |
| 15:50.26 | cehteh | is stefan kost still at nokia? |
| 15:50.54 | GAN900 | The MeeGo Devices team is actually making commits to WP7, they just don't realize it. |
| 15:51.01 | DocScrutinizer | maybe I mixed sth, but I seem to recall sth that's not been a dream |
| 15:51.14 | *** join/#maemo bekoz (~bekoz@184.91.204.51) |
| 15:51.16 | GAN900 | "Man, this Qt stuff looks a lots like .NET. . . ." |
| 15:51.44 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: who's Stefan Kost? |
| 15:51.51 | cehteh | i dont care about nokia .. and my next smartphone will be a free linux again, if not from nokia then from someone else (not sony :P) |
| 15:52.04 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: gstreamer guy |
| 15:52.05 | lolcat | Does Nokia own the trademark N950? |
| 15:52.09 | lolcat | cehteh: Wich one? |
| 15:52.26 | cehteh | lolcat: i dont plan to buy one soon, my n900 still works |
| 15:52.42 | cehteh | i decide when the n900 falls apart |
| 15:52.42 | GAN900 | cehteh, that's the problem. Who is the someone else? |
| 15:52.46 | cehteh | gta05 :) |
| 15:52.51 | lolcat | I can't wait to get my new N900 back |
| 15:52.58 | DocScrutinizer | I plan to buy a 3rd N900 to make sure this doesn't change next time |
| 15:53.41 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-058-093.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:54.15 | *** join/#maemo kaawee (~kW@89.204.153.198) |
| 15:54.48 | DocScrutinizer | I already dropped it one time, and one time dropped, saved from falling into street drain but then stepped on it. Still works but a scary statistic for 18 months usage |
| 15:55.46 | bekoz | who else makes good free linux phones? |
| 15:55.56 | cehteh | hehe mine dropped on the stree while biking |
| 15:55.59 | DocScrutinizer | nobody |
| 15:56.04 | cehteh | street |
| 15:56.21 | cehteh | my self build case worked, prevented any damage |
| 15:56.30 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:56.35 | bekoz | that just bites |
| 15:56.38 | lolcat | bekoz: N900 is free? |
| 15:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | photo or it didn't happen |
| 15:56.46 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: Was thisthat wierrd polycarbonate one? |
| 15:56.49 | bekoz | yeah I have one |
| 15:56.54 | cehteh | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 15:56.54 | bekoz | Just wondering |
| 15:57.07 | lolcat | I don't know any other real linux phones that are usable |
| 15:57.10 | bekoz | I couldn't find any others |
| 15:57.29 | cehteh | for now the n900 is certainly the best |
| 15:57.34 | SpeedEvil | There are open-source phones - but not linux. |
| 15:57.40 | bekoz | ti will be a shame if this one ever dies on me and I can't replace it |
| 15:57.53 | cehteh | there are some expensive niche products |
| 15:58.00 | SpeedEvil | http://www.sparkfun.com/products/287 |
| 15:58.02 | DocScrutinizer | there are open-source linux phones, but obsolete ;-D |
| 15:58.07 | SpeedEvil | Open-source phone. |
| 15:58.10 | SpeedEvil | Not linux though. |
| 15:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | there are also anti-vendor ports |
| 15:58.39 | bekoz | yeah but how long will they stay open-source |
| 15:59.00 | DocScrutinizer | e.g on palm pre, HTC dunnowhat, milestone iirc |
| 15:59.05 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-23-31.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:59.10 | cehteh | http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/18/road-keeps-their-linux-handy-pc-concept-alive/ is ROAD still alive? |
| 15:59.31 | DocScrutinizer | duh, it ever been? |
| 15:59.35 | bekoz | http://www.sparkfun.com/products/287 - LOL SpeedEvil |
| 15:59.38 | cehteh | yes i seen them |
| 15:59.42 | bekoz | hard to carry |
| 15:59.50 | cehteh | theh had real working hardware |
| 15:59.58 | cehteh | but underpowered and too expensive |
| 16:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, for 9999 gold |
| 16:00.20 | cehteh | on the good side they wanted to make a very rugged phone for workers and so on |
| 16:00.21 | dangergrrl | i know people who are very happy with their ols openmoko phones |
| 16:00.24 | dangergrrl | old |
| 16:00.25 | flux | recently I discussed with friends, that it would be great to have a rotary voip phone |
| 16:00.30 | cehteh | but i dont know how they progressed |
| 16:00.31 | dangergrrl | but openmoko is old now |
| 16:00.36 | flux | you could rotate in the ip digits.. |
| 16:00.43 | DocScrutinizer | obsolete as I said |
| 16:00.49 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: ^^^ |
| 16:00.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~ DocScrutinizer |
| 16:00.56 | infobot | hmm... docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko |
| 16:01.06 | cehteh | if i had expected the gta04 upgrade path some years ago i would have buyed a openmoko instead a n900 |
| 16:01.44 | GAN900 | Portrait phones are useless. |
| 16:01.54 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 16:02.16 | DocScrutinizer | "phones" w/o hw kbd are useless as pocket PC |
| 16:02.49 | *** join/#maemo madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu) |
| 16:02.52 | DocScrutinizer | hell, I'd not even like to use a tablet/pad |
| 16:03.25 | cehteh | http://www.road-gmbh.de/ |
| 16:03.29 | cehteh | aha ... ok |
| 16:03.44 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 16:03.44 | cehteh | another one bites the dust :/ |
| 16:03.56 | DocScrutinizer | try gizmo4you |
| 16:04.09 | DocScrutinizer | prolly vanished as well |
| 16:04.33 | dangergrrl | i'm really considering getting a handykey twiddler2 for use with my n900 except i wonder how using usb host mode would effect battery life #1 and #2 when i sit and use the n900 i'm almost always plugged into power so using a usb kb would prevent that |
| 16:04.39 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 16:04.43 | cehteh | thats the problem .. you cant do this business as startup with small series |
| 16:04.51 | cehteh | you can not compete |
| 16:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: NAK for #2 |
| 16:05.16 | dangergrrl | i'm already having an issue with my planned use for mine in that the fm transmitter won't work while charging |
| 16:05.17 | cehteh | so over & out |
| 16:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | ~powered-hostmode |
| 16:05.28 | DocScrutinizer | hhmpf |
| 16:05.36 | DocScrutinizer | ~hostmode-powered |
| 16:05.36 | infobot | it has been said that hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 |
| 16:05.48 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:05.58 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 16:06.20 | *** join/#maemo ptl (~patola@unaffiliated/ptl) |
| 16:06.49 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: there's also a workaround for the FMTX-while-charging issue |
| 16:06.51 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 16:07.23 | dangergrrl | i was looking at a 'car cassette adaptor' that lists n810 but not n900 as supported but i'm not sure the 3mm plug is the same |
| 16:07.29 | dangergrrl | oh, i should look that up |
| 16:07.39 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.212.141) |
| 16:08.05 | bekoz | I just use a generic casette adapter |
| 16:08.07 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: car cassette adapters are plain headsets for all that matters |
| 16:08.10 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 16:08.11 | bekoz | works just fine |
| 16:08.42 | DocScrutinizer | bekoz: ack |
| 16:08.49 | bekoz | works great actually |
| 16:09.22 | *** join/#maemo pronto (~moo@pool-173-69-178-35.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | should work flawlessly with N810 as well as N900 |
| 16:10.00 | DocScrutinizer | as well as any arbitrary "walkman" type device |
| 16:10.27 | dangergrrl | well i know the n900 provided headset i get mono if i plug it into the pc, seems it should work, maybe my pc headphone jack is a bit off spec |
| 16:10.42 | dangergrrl | so i thought there was a slight alignment issue |
| 16:10.48 | DocScrutinizer | N900 is compatible to standard 3pole 3.5mm plugs for headphones |
| 16:11.19 | dangergrrl | so the $2 cassette adaptor from amazon should be fine |
| 16:11.22 | dangergrrl | awesome |
| 16:11.25 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 16:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | NB there are also "hacks" to make FMTX work "always" |
| 16:12.20 | dangergrrl | i'm gonna try one more time with a charger at radio shack because i'm already $20 invested there, nokia branded chargers actually cost less than what i've spent on a charger that fails |
| 16:12.50 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 16:12.54 | dangergrrl | the fmtx works always hack i would like better |
| 16:13.09 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 16:13.14 | DocScrutinizer | ask MohammadAG if we got that in CSSU |
| 16:13.26 | dangergrrl | i like to keep the n900 in my fairing pocket and carry it inside with me when i stop, less wires == better |
| 16:13.41 | DocScrutinizer | I think it was of the class that can't easily get deployed via extras(-devel) |
| 16:14.06 | MohammadAG | nah, it's illegal to distributed patched binaries |
| 16:14.08 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@89.142.212.141) |
| 16:14.22 | dangergrrl | oh |
| 16:14.24 | DocScrutinizer | yay |
| 16:14.29 | DocScrutinizer | ok then |
| 16:14.35 | dangergrrl | you have to hack it yourself? |
| 16:14.42 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you at least got a link? |
| 16:15.13 | bekoz | for informational purposes ofcourse |
| 16:15.21 | bekoz | :) |
| 16:15.42 | MohammadAG | jacekowski.org |
| 16:15.51 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 16:15.55 | DocScrutinizer | hail jacekowski |
| 16:16.32 | DocScrutinizer | a fsckng genius |
| 16:16.48 | merlin1991 | X-Fade: ping |
| 16:17.08 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: it's weekend |
| 16:17.24 | merlin1991 | there's always a chance :D |
| 16:17.37 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28F86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | getting less of a chance month by month |
| 16:18.22 | DocScrutinizer | I'm actually waiting for several of Nokia infra getting orphaned |
| 16:18.29 | MohammadAG | lol @ http://www.youtube.com/user/NokiaHomebase |
| 16:18.38 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@222.210.173.13) |
| 16:19.02 | DocScrutinizer | buildhosts, IRC... |
| 16:19.36 | merlin1991 | wtf MohammadAG that ad is fail :D |
| 16:19.56 | dangergrrl | awesome, i will very much use that, thanks again DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG :) |
| 16:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 16:20.14 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-23-31.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:20.31 | dangergrrl | the jacekowski thing does exactly what i wanted |
| 16:20.44 | DocScrutinizer | spread the word! maemo not dead, just nobody knows how alive it is |
| 16:20.48 | dangergrrl | other than not turning the fm transmitter off at random times |
| 16:21.09 | dangergrrl | i'm honest with people when i recommend the n900 |
| 16:21.22 | dangergrrl | maemo support form nokia is dead |
| 16:21.29 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 16:21.33 | dangergrrl | but the community still lives |
| 16:21.37 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.212.141) |
| 16:21.44 | DocScrutinizer | but honestly there's never been too much :-P |
| 16:21.59 | DocScrutinizer | (maemo support from Nokia) |
| 16:22.05 | dangergrrl | the community is what i bought the device for |
| 16:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 16:23.00 | DocScrutinizer | and community is pretty much here on IRC |
| 16:23.01 | dangergrrl | i still don't know if it's just nokia were clueless or there is no way to make money with a device this open |
| 16:23.26 | DocScrutinizer | history will tell |
| 16:23.59 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia forgot they are a HARDWARE manufacturer |
| 16:24.08 | dangergrrl | amazon is back up to asking $550us for n900, i got mine at $350 from amazon in december |
| 16:24.22 | DocScrutinizer | they tried to play the content provider game |
| 16:24.28 | DocScrutinizer | and failed epically |
| 16:24.55 | GAN900 | dangergrrl, Nokia is clueless. |
| 16:25.23 | GAN900 | Run by a bunch of arrogant Finnish dinosaurs. |
| 16:25.26 | RST38h | Moo, ladies and gentlemen |
| 16:25.32 | dangergrrl | i've been using mappero and really see no reason i would use ovi maps instead except maybe for offline mode |
| 16:25.43 | RST38h | routing. |
| 16:26.01 | dangergrrl | i like the google router better |
| 16:26.08 | DocScrutinizer | if you're going to make money with open phones, you won't play the content provider game to add value. Your added value is good documentation of the HW so your customers are really free |
| 16:26.15 | dangergrrl | the ovi router has no option for motorcycle routes |
| 16:26.35 | dangergrrl | google []avoid highways gives nice motorcycle routes |
| 16:26.57 | DocScrutinizer | customers will even pay more for same hw, when it comes with a warranty for open docs |
| 16:27.19 | DocScrutinizer | of course not joe average-user |
| 16:27.26 | dangergrrl | that's my only gripe even going to this is the warantee is basicly useless |
| 16:27.32 | DocScrutinizer | but those who are concerned about their freedom |
| 16:27.41 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@cs78181065.pp.htv.fi) |
| 16:28.00 | dangergrrl | if you actually use the n900 you are going to void the warantee in under a day |
| 16:28.50 | dangergrrl | why even say it has one year warantee when the warantee is void if you use the device the way most users will |
| 16:29.01 | DocScrutinizer | not really, and also that's not what I referred to by "warranty" |
| 16:29.34 | DocScrutinizer | voiding warranty starts with OCing |
| 16:29.43 | DocScrutinizer | not with using whatever sw |
| 16:29.45 | dangergrrl | the hardware waranee is void if you install the power kernel at all i think even if you don't overclock |
| 16:29.58 | DocScrutinizer | not really |
| 16:30.29 | dangergrrl | oh, because i have it installed |
| 16:30.42 | dangergrrl | but only oc if something doesn't work |
| 16:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't really matter unless your failure pattern is OC caused |
| 16:31.03 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@188.188.65.47) |
| 16:31.41 | DocScrutinizer | and believe me, EE can tell what's due to OC and what is a clear warranty case |
| 16:31.41 | dangergrrl | i've had one or two video files that have stalls unless i oc |
| 16:32.18 | dangergrrl | my copy of lain |
| 16:32.42 | dangergrrl | which i can't read the subs on without using the ntsc out cable anyhow :) |
| 16:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | so while Nokia probably can tell you installed the PK, they usually won't mind as long as your warranty case is clearly unrelated |
| 16:34.06 | dangergrrl | oh |
| 16:34.12 | dangergrrl | that's fine then |
| 16:34.53 | Kilroo | Watching some of my friends with their ipads has got me considering both installing nitdroid to my n900 emmc, and shopping around for tablets that can theoretically dual-boot android and meego. |
| 16:35.02 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but NB it's easy to kill the device in a number of ways, no matter whether with PK, nitdroid, or plain stock kernel |
| 16:35.06 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.212.141) |
| 16:35.38 | dangergrrl | nothing at all like a hacked psp then if you send a psp in hacked to sony they won't fix it whether the failure is hacking related or not |
| 16:35.42 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, think they've got EEs in their repair centers? :P |
| 16:36.24 | nid0 | dangergrrl: a consideration is also how much the service centres care - if your device is dead and the moisture strips arent flagged and it hasnt clearly been dropped, chances are theyll just bin it and send you a new one |
| 16:36.30 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I think they got instructions at repair center about which falure patterns to send to special care EE department |
| 16:36.42 | *** join/#maemo romen (~quassel@adsl-ull-207-218.49-151.net24.it) |
| 16:37.07 | *** join/#maemo psychologe (~user@117.136.12.206) |
| 16:37.24 | DocScrutinizer | nid0: ^^^ to you as well |
| 16:37.39 | dangergrrl | sony has a policy to check what firmware is on the device for psp if they can read the flash at all but they actually replaced the water damaged psp i sent them |
| 16:38.02 | dangergrrl | but sony obviously does not care about your freedom :) |
| 16:38.17 | psychologe | has someone know how to use dbus or x-termini command close current application? |
| 16:38.45 | DocScrutinizer | umm |
| 16:38.50 | *** join/#maemo nusse (~nusse@p4FEC2CCD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:38.51 | DocScrutinizer | good question |
| 16:38.53 | nusse | hi there |
| 16:39.11 | cityLights | when I issue this command gobject.timeout_add(wait_duration,callback) does it issue the callback straight away or does it wait first? |
| 16:39.21 | nusse | should the sdk install work on the latest ubuntu? failes for me, eg creating the sbox group |
| 16:39.37 | dangergrrl | but if certain thinks are known to burn up when oc too much it should be easy to look for those |
| 16:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | there's a button "close current task" on powerbutton menu. I think investigating there you could find an answer |
| 16:39.44 | Kilroo | ...wouldn't a terminal command to close the current application close the...er...terminal? |
| 16:40.20 | trx | he wants to execute that cmd from the program itself i guess |
| 16:40.27 | DocScrutinizer | cityLights: of course it will wait first |
| 16:40.28 | Kilroo | Ah. |
| 16:40.48 | cityLights | thanks, I need to find my bug then |
| 16:40.50 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@76.73.56.241) |
| 16:41.01 | psychologe | i want use "shortcutd" set long press focus key to close current,when current on full screen |
| 16:41.03 | cityLights | I am three days , trying to understand what is wrong |
| 16:41.10 | cityLights | the program is not that big |
| 16:41.34 | dangergrrl | i actually would like to play with meego, can you install it fully to a microsd and boot it with flasher? |
| 16:41.34 | dangergrrl | i have a 4gb microsd i'm not using |
| 16:42.24 | dangergrrl | (i know the flasher recovery boot thing is actually a meego kernel) |
| 16:42.34 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: yes |
| 16:42.38 | Kilroo | I wish my 32gb microsd weren't fail. |
| 16:42.47 | psychologe | i want use "shortcutd" set long press focus key to close current application ,when current application on full screen |
| 16:43.17 | dangergrrl | i should look into that |
| 16:43.23 | DocScrutinizer | psychologe: check the powerbutton sub-function that does exactly that |
| 16:43.29 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AADBB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:44.00 | psychologe | i think it's quicker faster |
| 16:45.11 | dangergrrl | and also figure out how best to get madde under gentoo/sabayon but i don't know how to rewrap for portage |
| 16:45.26 | Kilroo | Triple-booting maemo, meego and nitdroid is still a pain in the nether regions, right? |
| 16:45.39 | RST38h | yes |
| 16:45.57 | DocScrutinizer | nitdroid *is* a pain on booting |
| 16:45.58 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-23-31.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:46.37 | Kilroo | Wonder if anything will ever come of that briefly-mentioned idea of making multiboot and uboot play nice together. |
| 16:46.39 | dangergrrl | nitdroid seems neat but last i checked half the hardware was still unsupported |
| 16:47.05 | DocScrutinizer | as those lazy ignorant maintainers of nitdroid refuse to care about proper integration into uBoot, and still rely on fsckdup deprecated multiboot that breaks things for everybody else except nitdroid |
| 16:48.02 | DocScrutinizer | see, meego works with uBoot. Nitdroid could as well, if only they'd care |
| 16:48.11 | DocScrutinizer | no need for multiboot really |
| 16:48.40 | DocScrutinizer | multibood is a genius friggin nasty hack |
| 16:48.56 | Kilroo | I thought at one point I saw a post where someone claimed to have gotten nitdroid to boot with uboot...but there was never any explanation of how so I'm assuming I misunderstood. |
| 16:49.24 | DocScrutinizer | that's prone to break the whole system and make you have to reflash, on every single boot and even more any update |
| 16:50.19 | DocScrutinizer | honestly if you're interested in andidiot, get yourself a decent cheap andridiot device |
| 16:50.20 | dangergrrl | is this the same multiboot that is the standard grub file format or am i thinking of something else? |
| 16:50.25 | *** join/#maemo kaawee (~kW@89.204.137.137) |
| 16:51.03 | dangergrrl | there seems to be a community thing around the hacked nook color |
| 16:51.04 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: completely different thing. They FLASH KERNEL on each boot :-O |
| 16:51.09 | dangergrrl | oh |
| 16:52.06 | dangergrrl | yes the grub thing is just some tweaks on a standard ELF file iirc |
| 16:52.34 | Kilroo | Yeah, I was looking at some information about the nook color to see if it could run meego...I have a friend who was about to root hers the last time I saw her. Apparently the answer is no, though. I'm considering an archos. |
| 16:53.01 | DocScrutinizer | interrupt boot (aka kernel flashing) -> borked, reflash. Update kernel of maemo ) -> borked, reflash. |
| 16:53.07 | *** join/#maemo otwieracz (~gonet9@v6.gen2.org) |
| 16:53.27 | dangergrrl | oh |
| 16:53.27 | bekoz | dangergrrl: what is google router? |
| 16:53.32 | DocScrutinizer | uninstall nitdroid -> borked, reflash. |
| 16:53.34 | dangergrrl | sounds no fun |
| 16:53.41 | otwieracz | Is this available to use gcc 4.x in Diablo scratchbox SDK? |
| 16:54.13 | dangergrrl | google router? no clue... |
| 16:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:54.44 | bekoz | weren't yopu talking about it earlier |
| 16:54.48 | bekoz | ? |
| 16:54.57 | dangergrrl | i don't think so |
| 16:55.02 | nid0 | you mean their travel routing? |
| 16:55.17 | dangergrrl | oh |
| 16:55.18 | dangergrrl | yes |
| 16:55.18 | bekoz | yeah |
| 16:55.20 | dangergrrl | that |
| 16:55.22 | bekoz | maps |
| 16:55.42 | dangergrrl | you can choose to use the google map router in mappero if you like |
| 16:55.55 | bekoz | Kewl thanx |
| 16:55.59 | DocScrutinizer | ergo -> stay AWAY from multiboot, so stay away from nitdroid! Seriously |
| 16:56.27 | dangergrrl | and if you choose both avoid highways and avoid tolls it gives great cross country routes that avoid superhighways |
| 16:56.49 | bekoz | that's what I was looking for |
| 16:56.50 | dangergrrl | ideal for motorcycle rides |
| 16:56.53 | bekoz | TY |
| 16:56.57 | DocScrutinizer | ...until those nitdroid fools care to sanitize their boot process so it's in line with what maemo and meego do |
| 16:57.01 | dangergrrl | i HATE the superhighways in cities |
| 16:57.06 | dangergrrl | on a bike it's no fun |
| 16:57.10 | bekoz | same here |
| 16:57.21 | bekoz | nothing but concrete |
| 16:57.33 | bekoz | to see |
| 16:57.42 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 16:57.51 | dangergrrl | stop and go on a bike is a pain too |
| 16:58.43 | dangergrrl | coming home from the store here i drive 20-30mph through a neighborhood to avoid stop lights |
| 16:58.47 | dangergrrl | at least i'm moving |
| 17:00.21 | dangergrrl | the google router also does bicycle for usa and canada now |
| 17:00.55 | bekoz | How do you choose Google router ? |
| 17:01.21 | bekoz | or is it just the maps? |
| 17:01.52 | RST38h | Proper (not Maemo) Ovi Maps also do that |
| 17:02.19 | dangergrrl | in mappero |
| 17:02.19 | RST38h | They are surprisingly good too, tried them on an E7, best GPS I ever had |
| 17:02.40 | dangergrrl | when you click 'find a route to...' after tapping on the map |
| 17:02.53 | dangergrrl | the bottom option is 'Router' |
| 17:03.03 | bekoz | IC |
| 17:03.52 | dangergrrl | then the button on the right that says options brings up different options for different routers |
| 17:04.02 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~Venemo@netacc-gpn-4-82-235.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 17:05.07 | dangergrrl | odd, didn't list public transport, maybe because i picked a highway destination |
| 17:05.39 | *** part/#maemo otwieracz (~gonet9@v6.gen2.org) |
| 17:07.16 | *** join/#maemo onen|openBmap (~quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 17:08.36 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-23-31.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:09.09 | dangergrrl | mappero brings in espeak and says it gives voice notifications but i've never heard it do so |
| 17:09.21 | *** join/#maemo pronto (~moo@pool-173-69-178-35.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:09.28 | DocScrutinizer | I did |
| 17:09.52 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:10.21 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: seems mappero espeak language is related to kbd-mapping you set |
| 17:10.48 | DocScrutinizer | and a lot of mappings have no matching espeak vocabulary |
| 17:13.44 | *** part/#maemo psychologe (~user@117.136.12.206) |
| 17:13.57 | Venemo_N900 | dangergrrl, there was a TMO thread about the developer requesting sound files in various languages |
| 17:13.57 | Venemo_N900 | I'm not sure how far they got at the end |
| 17:13.58 | Venemo_N900 | ~tomorrow |
| 17:13.58 | infobot | Tomorrow will probably suck too. |
| 17:14.07 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~Venemo@netacc-gpn-4-82-235.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 17:14.49 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AADBB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:14.59 | Venemo_N900 | ~tomorrow |
| 17:14.59 | infobot | Tomorrow will probably suck too. |
| 17:16.36 | dangergrrl | oh |
| 17:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | there's quite some bits I think should have gathered in mappero - settings - general rather than hardcoded or linked to such nonsense like kbd mapping |
| 17:18.38 | dangergrrl | i flashed from world, no idea which keyboard mapping i have, is "C" a valid answer? echo $LANG says 'en_US' that's a good sign |
| 17:19.01 | Venemo_N900 | it's open source, feel free to contribute |
| 17:19.09 | dangergrrl | fork? |
| 17:20.03 | Venemo_N900 | I'm talking about contributing, not forking |
| 17:20.12 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: I know, but I've not enough clones (aka fork(me) )to contribute to all the projects I have suggestions for |
| 17:20.13 | *** join/#maemo psychologe (~user@117.136.12.206) |
| 17:20.34 | Venemo_N900 | yo DocScrutinizer |
| 17:20.59 | bekoz | wish mapero brought in addresses from contacts |
| 17:21.28 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo_ (Sicelo@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 17:21.34 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, yeah, sometimes I feel like that too - there should be another me who does the hard stuff and then I could just focus on improving the software I have ideas for |
| 17:21.38 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p54947713.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:22.28 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, saturday night fever ("ooops, need to buy some $food...") - l8r |
| 17:22.35 | dangergrrl | i must have something misconfigured |
| 17:22.43 | dangergrrl | i didn't even hear interlingua |
| 17:23.11 | Venemo_N900 | hehe |
| 17:23.26 | DocScrutinizer | lol @ interlingua. What a funny useless idea |
| 17:23.35 | DocScrutinizer | bye |
| 17:25.13 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:26.01 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.236.214.20) |
| 17:26.47 | *** part/#maemo psychologe (~user@117.136.12.206) |
| 17:27.22 | dangergrrl | i like the idea of lojban but haven't bothered to learn it |
| 17:27.35 | dangergrrl | it is parsable with lex/yacc though :) |
| 17:28.33 | dangergrrl | probably a silly idea for a language for humans to speak but i like it (the idea) |
| 17:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | kicks own ass for checking another detail rather than hurrying for shopping |
| 17:30.23 | *** join/#maemo spiritd (~spiritd@gw-kolin.jon.cz) |
| 17:34.17 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~user@72.34.133.249) |
| 17:35.58 | DocScrutinizer | general advice regarding maemo-OS: http://paste.debian.net/116294/ |
| 17:36.09 | DocScrutinizer | bye, now for real |
| 17:40.05 | *** join/#maemo psychologe (~user@117.136.12.196) |
| 17:40.43 | *** join/#maemo befr0d (~fercho@186.112.186.9) |
| 17:41.18 | DocScrutinizer | (also a funny way to hide files) |
| 17:42.10 | DocScrutinizer | only way to access this -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 2 2009 x is to umount the MyDocs |
| 17:43.19 | DocScrutinizer | if espeak/mappero is going to install voice files to MyDocs/* (a sane concept) that this will fail epicaly if N900 is in ass-rage mode |
| 17:44.50 | derf | Though that'll cause lots of fun if mappero is running while you plug the device into your PC. |
| 17:45.45 | derf | I enjoyed Android's solution, which was to forcibly unmount the SD card when you do that, causing any programs using a file on it to crash. |
| 17:47.04 | MohammadAG | my X keeps disappearing every now and then :/ |
| 17:47.31 | DocScrutinizer | derf: that's exactly what maemo in fact does with MyDocs |
| 17:47.38 | DocScrutinizer | see that pastebin |
| 17:47.51 | psychologe | mappero has a defect , can't search place used google data |
| 17:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | nah, not exactly, it fails to umount then |
| 17:48.38 | derf | Though one thing that can be said for the Android approach: it's easy to find out what programs were using the SD card when you want to mount it on the PC. |
| 17:48.56 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz2 (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:49.25 | derf | I've given up and rebooted my N900 before. |
| 17:51.21 | *** part/#maemo psychologe (~user@117.136.12.196) |
| 17:56.10 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-078-042-037-046.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:57.10 | DocScrutinizer | ok, too late :-S |
| 17:58.17 | *** join/#maemo BoWozZ (~BackTrack@180.249.188.243) |
| 17:59.18 | GAN900 | Usually tracker is the culprit |
| 18:00.25 | DocScrutinizer | fuser -k kill processes accessing the named file (not on messybox shit) |
| 18:01.40 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-236-183.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 18:03.12 | *** join/#maemo CyZooNiC (~CyZooNiC@c-82-192-237-13.customer.ggaweb.ch) |
| 18:07.01 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@188.188.65.47) |
| 18:08.00 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@cs78181065.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:09.55 | *** join/#maemo kaawee (~kW@89.204.137.204) |
| 18:12.39 | DocScrutinizer | actually I'm missing psmisc-gnu |
| 18:13.16 | jacekowski | i've seen domebody mentioned me |
| 18:14.38 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@e83-245-131-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:15.07 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:15.16 | DocScrutinizer | The following packages will be REMOVED: |
| 18:15.18 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.19 | DocScrutinizer | The following NEW packages will be installed: |
| 18:15.21 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.30 | DocScrutinizer | o.O D-: |
| 18:16.15 | chx | cell-modem-ui does not sound good |
| 18:16.21 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 18:17.24 | DocScrutinizer | and I wonder how the heck installing psmisc can cause cellmodem-ui do vanish |
| 18:17.33 | *** join/#maemo hoax__ (~hoax@h47084.upc-h.chello.nl) |
| 18:18.35 | ShadowJK | apt-cache show on both psmisc and cell-modem-ui? |
| 18:18.49 | ShadowJK | It's probably because one is installing debian package in maemo :P |
| 18:18.51 | DocScrutinizer | just doing that |
| 18:20.18 | DocScrutinizer | didn't help other than giving me headache |
| 18:20.50 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBEA8F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | apt-cache show cell-modem-ui is unbearable |
| 18:22.37 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 18:22.57 | DocScrutinizer | *I HATE MESSYBOX* |
| 18:23.06 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@91-115-108-90.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:29.13 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@188.188.65.47) |
| 18:30.48 | *** join/#maemo renato (~renato@177.17.102.2) |
| 18:31.48 | ShadowJK | I can't even see a psmisc |
| 18:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | actually I can't figure how to use messybox fuser for *anything* |
| 18:32.54 | renato | hi guys I have already uploaded the pyside package twice to the fremantle builder, I have received the e-mail with the OK log, but the package did not appear on repository |
| 18:33.50 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy psmisc |
| 18:34.00 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:34.01 | ShadowJK | cell-modem-ui depends on busybox-symlinks-psmisc, so whoever packaged psmisc fucked up if he didn't put it elsewhere to avoid conflicts, or tested it functional with the system so that you could have had a Replaces |
| 18:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:34.03 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:34.57 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 20:12:39] <DocScrutinizer> actually I'm missing psmisc-gnu |
| 18:36.04 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B4847C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:36.29 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 18:37.47 | DocScrutinizer | renato: are you maintainer of pyside pkg? |
| 18:40.31 | kwtm | quick question: it says PR 1337 version 7 has "Landscape orientation lock". Does this include "Portrait orientation lock"? If not, does a subsequent version have it? (I am at v6.5, trying not to upgrade too quickly, in order to avoid usability bugs) |
| 18:41.05 | DocScrutinizer | my 7 doesn't have portait lock |
| 18:41.14 | Jaffa | kwtm: THere is no portrait orientation lock yet, no. |
| 18:41.27 | Jaffa | kwtm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog is accurate and up-to-date |
| 18:41.30 | DocScrutinizer | just this friggin useless icon in status bar when landscape lock is set |
| 18:41.56 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@188.188.65.47) |
| 18:42.07 | kwtm | Ok, thanks. Wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand. |
| 18:43.06 | DocScrutinizer | I'd actually love to keep things with portrait like they were in maemo stock |
| 18:43.30 | DocScrutinizer | well, I know I'm not exactly mainstream with this notion |
| 18:43.56 | kwtm | Wait, so "this friggin useless icon in status bar when landscape lock is set" means that when I rotate from portrait to landscape, it will rotate (since it's unlocked) into landscape mode, whereupon it locks since it is now landscape-locked? That would actually be useful to me. |
| 18:44.05 | *** join/#maemo renatofilho (~renato@187.58.97.196) |
| 18:44.52 | DocScrutinizer | sorry you lost me |
| 18:45.12 | Cor-Ai | finds DocScrutinizer in the kitchen |
| 18:45.40 | DocScrutinizer | good idea indeed |
| 18:47.28 | *** join/#maemo wam (~wam@dslb-188-099-193-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:47.28 | *** join/#maemo wam (~wam@unaffiliated/wam) |
| 18:48.16 | kwtm | Jaffa: WHen you say that wiki "is accurate and up-to-date", it still doesn't necessarily tell the whole story, including about bugs. I notice, in version 8, a note that "Fixed bug #11831: Removal of mp-fremantle-*-pr breaks apt autoremover ", so now I'm leery of version 9 coming out with "Fixed bug: N900 no longer explodes when you double-tap." Right now v6.5 seems fairly usable except for this ridiculous tendency to rotate when |
| 18:48.18 | kwtm | the device is still 20 degrees from the horizontal |
| 18:48.18 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11831 Removal of mp-fremantle-*-pr breaks apt autoremover |
| 18:48.58 | Jaffa | kwtm: You should look at the bug reports: "breaks apt autoremover" has been in there since the first version |
| 18:49.29 | kwtm | Jaffa: Ok, so now I need to look at bug reports. How long to go through 11831 of them, since there are apparently that many? |
| 18:49.39 | Jaffa | kwtm: If you're not willing to test, don't test. Wait for the stable version - and, indeed, start a conversation on maemo-developers about how and/when that could be |
| 18:50.08 | Jaffa | kwtm: Those are all the Maemo bugs. You're extrapolating from a line in a changelog that a bug in the CSSU is fixed, and assume it was introduced in the previous version. That's almost certainly not true in the majority of cases. |
| 18:50.22 | kwtm | Jaffa: I have already asked maemo developers about that. In the meanwhile, I wanted to see if the landscape lock included portrait lock. |
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| 18:51.02 | Jaffa | kwtm: And if it did, it'd say "landscape/portrait orientation lock" or just "orientation lock" |
| 18:51.12 | Jaffa | kwtm: "asked maemo developers about that"? |
| 18:51.46 | kwtm | Jaffa: You are right that it would mention "portrait lock", but I wanted to see if the portrait lock had already been introduced in an earlier version, or otherwise was somehow subsumed into that. |
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| 18:52.23 | kwtm | Jaffa: Meanwhile, what I meant about the Changelog is that there may be changes not listed in the log. |
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| 18:53.01 | kwtm | Jaffa: I continue to be wary about the text highlighting bug that DocScrutinizer mentioned, for which he (and now I) has been avoiding going beyond v7. |
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| 18:54.56 | Jaffa | kwtm: Well, it doesn't look like the Qt upgrade is going to be reverted so it's a question of drumming up Qt developers to investigate & fix. |
| 18:55.25 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: I see that v7, which you have, is listed as having "Improved press effect " whereas in the next version, it says "Reverted improved zoom on press effect. " Is the "press effect" the same as "zoom on press effect"? If yes, then what is this "press effect" which the developers decided to revert in the next version? |
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| 18:56.37 | DocScrutinizer | no idea, seems you had to enable it in transitions.ini or sth, which is fine for me |
| 18:56.48 | kwtm | Jaffa: Ok. I will hold off on anything beyond v7 then, till a fix is in. |
| 18:56.58 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Thanks. That's good news. Up to v7 I go, then. |
| 18:57.36 | Jaffa | kwtm: Kinda breaks the covenant of being able to test the damned thing and get it stabilised, but <shrug/> |
| 19:00.29 | kwtm | Jaffa: Well, I do believe that further testing of versions that are not the newest is also of value, partly because not all features are updated in the next version, and partly because I seem to have a knack for digging up bugs in the darndest places. |
| 19:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | in my notion cssu is already halfway down the "introduce new bleeding edge feature, fix one bug, introduce 4 new ones - nobody cares about a testing not to mention stable branche due to missing manpower" road of no return |
| 19:04.11 | kwtm | In an unrelated question, how would I tell HAM to check for updates every 30 years instead of the default which is too frequent for my taste (and connection and battery)? |
| 19:04.33 | DocScrutinizer | see cistomizing-maemo wiki |
| 19:04.42 | kwtm | will search. thx |
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| 19:07.30 | RST38h | Somebody should really downgrade Modest in the CSSU: it crashes way too often |
| 19:07.34 | DocScrutinizer | (road of no return) that's the path that SHR is following since like 2 years now, and it started quite like cssu does right now |
| 19:07.52 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: thanks, got the auto updates frequency tweak. |
| 19:08.03 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 19:08.21 | Sazpaimon | Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to talk.maemo.org |
| 19:08.23 | Sazpaimon | oh bou |
| 19:08.25 | Sazpaimon | *boy |
| 19:08.33 | kwtm | SHR, DocScrutinizer? |
| 19:08.51 | DocScrutinizer | http://shr-project.org |
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| 19:09.12 | DocScrutinizer | the most popular OM FR distro |
| 19:09.51 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Useful info! Thanks. |
| 19:10.00 | kwtm | Okay, I'm off. Bye all! |
| 19:11.25 | compengi | what's the sudo password on maemo? |
| 19:11.48 | Guest24091 | So I installed a crud load of software on my n900 about a month ago. Bad idea, it crashed and went into a reboot loop. Since then I've reflashed 5 times. Every time I reflash it works until I reboot and then it goes back into a reboot loop. Any ideas what would cause this? |
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| 19:13.04 | Sicelo_ | multiboot, perhaps Guest24091 ? |
| 19:13.05 | RST38h | Guest: Have you installed any dual loaders, nitroid, meego, etc? |
| 19:13.51 | DocScrutinizer | multiboot |
| 19:14.03 | GAN900 | flash emmc? |
| 19:14.09 | *** join/#maemo c2pLaY (j1bber1sh@S0106001e8cc09003.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 19:14.23 | DocScrutinizer | meh, don't install nitdroid/multibot |
| 19:14.31 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@port-20686.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 19:14.42 | Guest24091 | At one point I think I installed nitroid, but that was many flashes ago (both eMMC and FIASCO) |
| 19:15.05 | Guest24091 | If that's the problem is there something else I have to do to get rid of it? |
| 19:16.03 | *** join/#maemo paroneayea (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 19:16.12 | DocScrutinizer | reflash, then on restoring your "data" from backup-app make sure you don't install nitdroid/multiboot again |
| 19:16.36 | DocScrutinizer | there's a comfortable per-app selection option in backup-restore |
| 19:17.20 | Guest24091 | I actually haven't been restoring anything from the backup app. Just using exchange to sync all of my google contacts, installing fcamera and a few widgets. |
| 19:17.33 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 19:17.50 | DocScrutinizer | so you should try to reboot before you do that |
| 19:17.56 | DocScrutinizer | and see if that works |
| 19:18.05 | Guest24091 | This time it crashed in the middle of installing apps via fast app manager and then went into a reboot loop. |
| 19:18.07 | renato_filho | DocScrutinizer, yes I'm the maintainer of PySide pkg |
| 19:18.08 | Guest24091 | Ok |
| 19:18.13 | Guest24091 | Worth a try. |
| 19:18.38 | DocScrutinizer | you as wel might do wrong by flashing eMMC after fiasco/rootfs, and so destroying /opt |
| 19:19.46 | DocScrutinizer | well, it wouldn't boot out of flashing mode after you do that |
| 19:20.03 | Guest73711 | No, I'm definitely flashing the eMMC first. |
| 19:20.13 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 19:20.34 | DocScrutinizer | so check if you can boot a 'virgin' system several times |
| 19:20.39 | Guest73711 | (I can follow directions once I've been bitten by not following them) |
| 19:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | then come back and report |
| 19:20.52 | Guest73711 | Ok, just rewiped and am doing that. |
| 19:21.28 | DocScrutinizer | one of your widgets may make hildon reboot |
| 19:21.43 | DocScrutinizer | I had that once |
| 19:21.46 | Guest73711 | (App search and Touch search?) |
| 19:22.00 | compengi | what's the sudo password on maemo? |
| 19:22.06 | DocScrutinizer | nome |
| 19:22.08 | compengi | i want to issue apt-get |
| 19:22.10 | DocScrutinizer | none |
| 19:22.13 | compengi | oh |
| 19:22.18 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 19:22.29 | DocScrutinizer | #~> root |
| 19:22.36 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: And what's your proposal to fix that situation, then? :-p |
| 19:23.28 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: hard to give good advice. By al means care about a testing branch that's focused on usability/stability rather than bleeding edge |
| 19:23.42 | compengi | DocScrutinizer, i want to issue apt-get update, what should i do? |
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| 19:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | compengi: type `root>ENTER>whatever-apt-get-you-like....' |
| 19:24.29 | DocScrutinizer | root |
| 19:24.35 | DocScrutinizer | is the magic word |
| 19:24.38 | DocScrutinizer | not sudo |
| 19:24.54 | compengi | it says not found |
| 19:25.02 | Guest73711 | Wait, seriously? No need to install gainroot or rootsh? |
| 19:25.03 | DocScrutinizer | root is kinda short for "sudo gainroot" |
| 19:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | compengi: install rootsh pkg |
| 19:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | try sudo gainroot first |
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| 19:26.09 | *** join/#maemo panaggio_ (~panaggio_@201-92-58-150.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 19:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | if it says "enable R&D to brick your ..." then you need to install rootsh pkg |
| 19:26.22 | compengi | yeah |
| 19:26.22 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I don't disagree, but it's a question of trying to steer people towards the goal of releasing something stable. |
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| 19:26.37 | renato_filho | DocScrutinizer, Who I can ask for more info about these packages? Only the i386 package was uploaded to repository |
| 19:26.47 | DocScrutinizer | you need to have milestones and developers assigned to the task |
| 19:27.01 | DocScrutinizer | you need feature freeze dates |
| 19:27.35 | DocScrutinizer | you even might need to freeze -devel work until -testing is done |
| 19:28.13 | compengi | DocScrutinizer, my package manager is hallucinating, it says there are no protocols configured and it happened when i stopped updating portage process |
| 19:28.43 | DocScrutinizer | umm, no idea |
| 19:29.25 | DocScrutinizer | compengi: disable all catalogs except extras (and the Nokia catalogs of course) |
| 19:29.41 | MohammadAG | ZogG, ping |
| 19:29.47 | *** join/#maemo renatofilho (~renato@187.58.106.213) |
| 19:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: for now probably 7 is a good base for a testing or even stable release to easy users' access to cssu |
| 19:31.09 | *** join/#maemo idont (~iDont@j138215.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 19:31.31 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: No-one's volunteered to organise and pitch that though, AFAICT. |
| 19:31.55 | DocScrutinizer | that's the problem that will kill cssu if not tackled NOW |
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| 19:33.43 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: If no-one's got the itch enough to scratch, maybe it'll stay niche then because the community is really too small to sustain any such project. |
| 19:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | cssu will become the playground of the devels rather than a valid option for all users |
| 19:34.13 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, exactly that'll going to happen |
| 19:34.20 | DocScrutinizer | as it did on SHR |
| 19:35.47 | Jaffa | SHR? |
| 19:36.01 | DocScrutinizer | there are so many users not even aware of IRC or CSSU and just disappointed about bugs in maemo5proper |
| 19:36.28 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 21:08:51] <DocScrutinizer> http://shr-project.org |
| 19:36.29 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 21:09:12] <DocScrutinizer> the most popular OM FR distro |
| 19:36.31 | DocScrutinizer |  |
| 19:37.03 | DocScrutinizer | CSSU is targeted to give hope to those users, instant relieve |
| 19:37.37 | DocScrutinizer | they don't care about FOSS replacement for cam or mediaplayer, first instance |
| 19:37.49 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I've been trying to get the people who can help polish it to help, but little repsonse |
| 19:38.02 | DocScrutinizer | what they care about is broken enter key in shell, CPU rape on catorize |
| 19:38.24 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Both of which are fixed, of course |
| 19:38.37 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, in CSSU they are of course |
| 19:39.14 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:39.16 | DocScrutinizer | but nobody of those 'noobs' will go for an unstable cssu that gives them more new problems than it fixes |
| 19:39.35 | DocScrutinizer | and FUD is another big factor here |
| 19:39.59 | DocScrutinizer | they won't even go for ANY cssu as long as it's labled '-devel' |
| 19:40.09 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:40.19 | DocScrutinizer | lot of N900 users NEED a working phone |
| 19:40.59 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: fine, them make a roadmap: fix those two bugs, feature freeze, test, move to stable |
| 19:42.23 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it's not like I'm not trying to get it fixed |
| 19:42.25 | Venemo | hey again guys |
| 19:42.41 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: the feature freeze is the key bit |
| 19:43.01 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer ++ ++ ++ |
| 19:43.22 | trx | is TMO down? |
| 19:43.49 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, can I make phone calls with SHR? |
| 19:43.54 | DocScrutinizer | feature freeze NOW, make a milestone for stable-rc0, fix the known bugs, test, publish |
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| 19:44.05 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: on some devices yes |
| 19:44.10 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, N900? |
| 19:44.19 | DocScrutinizer | not yet, but we're close |
| 19:44.50 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 19:44.55 | DocScrutinizer | took like 5 months to get shit sorted, but last 2 weeks there's been great progress |
| 19:45.08 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I fully agree, but the fact is, Qt bugs seem to be assigned to /dev/null |
| 19:45.21 | DocScrutinizer | then go for 7 |
| 19:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | declare that version your feature freeze |
| 19:45.53 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, btw, is SHR an abbreviation? |
| 19:45.53 | DocScrutinizer | review, fix things that need to be fixed, then test and publish that one |
| 19:46.05 | DocScrutinizer | Stable Hybrid Release |
| 19:46.09 | DocScrutinizer | hahahaha |
| 19:46.14 | nox- | hah |
| 19:46.19 | Venemo | "Hybrid release"? |
| 19:46.29 | DocScrutinizer | hybrid like meego |
| 19:46.32 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 19:46.54 | DocScrutinizer | union of old OM2008 and FSO |
| 19:47.04 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 19:47.08 | Venemo | mhm |
| 19:47.12 | Venemo | ~iirc |
| 19:47.12 | infobot | well, iirc is "if I recall correctly" |
| 19:47.20 | Sicelo_ | ~fud |
| 19:47.20 | infobot | fud is probably Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Originally invented by IBM, but now used by many others. or YAFA. or Fscking Useless Data or otherwise known as false information or mindless facts with no backup facts or http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7420 |
| 19:47.25 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@88.80-203-123.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:48.45 | DocScrutinizer | trx: yeah, tmo down or dog slow |
| 19:49.24 | MohammadAG | down for me too |
| 19:49.50 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, RL is calling |
| 19:50.12 | DocScrutinizer | go CSSU crew, goooo, GOOOOOOO!! :-D |
| 19:50.36 | RST38h | Mohammad:Please, do something about Modest |
| 19:50.46 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-23-31.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:50.51 | RST38h | Mohammad: If it is impossible to fix, downgrade it: right now it coredumps on many emails |
| 19:51.34 | DocScrutinizer | declare rev7 the base for stable feature freeze. Modest been ok in 7 afaik |
| 19:51.40 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 19:51.42 | MohammadAG | Sc0rpius, thoughts? |
| 19:51.58 | SpeedEvil | Or if it reliably coredumps - do the bisect thing |
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| 20:01.09 | Sc0rpius | readsa |
| 20:01.11 | Sc0rpius | reads |
| 20:01.46 | *** part/#maemo bekoz (~bekoz@184.91.204.51) |
| 20:02.10 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu) |
| 20:02.18 | cityLights | guys, |
| 20:02.25 | cityLights | I need help |
| 20:02.31 | cityLights | I wrote this program |
| 20:02.39 | cityLights | and somehow it loops |
| 20:02.43 | Sc0rpius | and what RST38h needs exactly in Modest? |
| 20:02.48 | cityLights | and I just cant find why |
| 20:02.56 | cityLights | http://dpaste.com/539788/ |
| 20:02.57 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:03.19 | cityLights | I got no clue as to why timer_callback is called every time |
| 20:03.20 | Sc0rpius | RST 38H as in the 8080 instruction? hehe |
| 20:03.34 | cityLights | I tried adding debug messeges |
| 20:03.43 | cityLights | but just dont understand it |
| 20:03.59 | DocScrutinizer | cityLights: are you sure yu give correct value for timeout to qtimerfoo? |
| 20:04.19 | DocScrutinizer | it might as well be millisec, even microsec |
| 20:04.45 | DocScrutinizer | check that |
| 20:04.58 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: I want it not to crash when viewing seemingly random emails |
| 20:05.22 | Sc0rpius | since exactly when that is happening to you? since CSSU, or since a specific version of CSSU? |
| 20:05.23 | cityLights | yes |
| 20:05.38 | cityLights | you can also see this in the plot near the bottum |
| 20:05.47 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Since a few last iterations of CSSU |
| 20:06.06 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Ok, since CSSU started including Modest :) |
| 20:06.13 | Sc0rpius | CSSU has always included Modest |
| 20:06.16 | *** join/#maemo pauly (6c2802e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.40.2.232) |
| 20:06.22 | Sc0rpius | since the very first one |
| 20:06.47 | Sc0rpius | but I noticed a few crashes since 14.2 |
| 20:07.22 | Sc0rpius | and the other day I was thinking it was very weird since the last commit I made to Modest it was working fine and severely tested |
| 20:07.30 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: prepare a conveniently installable version7, declare that -test |
| 20:07.34 | DocScrutinizer | NOW |
| 20:07.53 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: I do suspect the crashes were in whatever version got imported into CSSU |
| 20:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | no fixing, nuttin |
| 20:08.21 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: So it is unlikely to be your personal changes but the damn thing still crashes, which is hardly tolerable =( |
| 20:08.56 | Sc0rpius | a downgrade from 3.90 to 3.4 (stock Maemo) will not be considered |
| 20:08.57 | *** join/#maemo paulyn900 (6c2802e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.40.2.232) |
| 20:09.11 | paulyn900 | hi |
| 20:09.15 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: please test on 1337-7-rc0 soon to come |
| 20:09.21 | Sc0rpius | well gitorious isn't helping me right now to see what was the last changes in Modest and who made them |
| 20:09.34 | paulyn900 | i have n900 and. |
| 20:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | 1337-7-testing-rc0 even |
| 20:09.46 | Sc0rpius | RST38h: it crashes viewing mails? |
| 20:09.59 | RST38h | Yes |
| 20:10.26 | paulyn900 | want to restore it to default factory but my usb is broken? any ideas? |
| 20:10.53 | DocScrutinizer | paulyn900: you're pretty much fsckd |
| 20:10.54 | Sc0rpius | RST38h: are you using tree view mode or normal list mode? |
| 20:11.07 | paulyn900 | i cant reflash |
| 20:11.14 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 20:11.48 | DocScrutinizer | N900 with broken USB is a semi-brick, a zombie |
| 20:11.56 | paulyn900 | lol |
| 20:12.01 | paulyn900 | i know |
| 20:12.13 | RST38h | normal |
| 20:12.54 | paulyn900 | u think someone would buy it in its condition? |
| 20:12.54 | Jaffa | BUg 11961? |
| 20:12.56 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11961 Random email application (modest) crashes with CSSU |
| 20:13.09 | Jaffa | There are stack traces and stuff on there, and a comment which may link it to a widget or something |
| 20:13.11 | RST38h | yeaaaa |
| 20:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | paulyn900: under battery is a single pair of 2 gold dots, these are USB D+/- |
| 20:13.19 | paulyn900 | i think im goona move away from maemo / nokia |
| 20:13.21 | Jaffa | Although I've got the widget enabled and don't have any Modest crashes at all |
| 20:13.26 | Jaffa | Sc0rpius: ^^^ |
| 20:13.39 | Sc0rpius | hmm |
| 20:13.43 | paulyn900 | ahhh really |
| 20:14.25 | paulyn900 | i have a spare usb cable |
| 20:15.12 | SpeedEvil | paulyn900: Where in the world ar eyou? |
| 20:15.26 | DocScrutinizer | when those 2 dots are upper left, counting down the rows, vbus 5V is on 2nd row down, leftmost dot |
| 20:15.31 | SpeedEvil | paulyn900: Also - it's possible that there is debris in the connector - look carefully nder a strong light |
| 20:15.35 | DocScrutinizer | gnd is everywhere ;-D |
| 20:15.36 | RST38h | OMG they have found a videotape of Osama watching TV feature about himself! |
| 20:15.40 | paulyn900 | baltimore, md usa |
| 20:15.44 | RST38h | How cute! |
| 20:15.59 | SpeedEvil | paulyn900: Ah - EU has 2 year warranties - guess that doersn't help. |
| 20:16.10 | paulyn900 | no worries |
| 20:16.14 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: wait til you see the awesome rest |
| 20:16.21 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.149.30) |
| 20:16.35 | RST38h | RU has walk-in electronics repair shops - guess that doesn't help either |
| 20:16.54 | paulyn900 | lol im using a t mobile my touch 3g slide i found at the mall |
| 20:16.55 | RST38h | Doc: Will there be Osama porn?!?!? |
| 20:17.11 | paulyn900 | feel bad for whoever lost it |
| 20:17.37 | RST38h | paul: Have you tried returning it to whoever lost it? |
| 20:17.46 | paulyn900 | yes |
| 20:18.08 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: yeah, coloring his beard, pondering if he looks alright for taking a video |
| 20:18.09 | paulyn900 | no awnser |
| 20:18.20 | paulyn900 | so its mines now |
| 20:18.44 | *** join/#maemo renatofilho (~renato@177.17.107.10) |
| 20:18.50 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 20:19.27 | paulyn900 | Android is quite nice for end user but i cant figure out how to close a program quite odd |
| 20:19.28 | RST38h | Doc:Playing with his golden AK-54! |
| 20:19.29 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, I found pointers to the QTBUG |
| 20:19.29 | MohammadAG | remember that it also made the fcamera manual focus circle disappear? |
| 20:19.29 | MohammadAG | I dug around fcamera's sources |
| 20:19.42 | *** join/#maemo pronto (~moo@pool-173-69-178-35.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:20.23 | Sc0rpius | is trying to reproduce the bug scrolling fast or viewing mails or anything that ppl have reported to cause the crash |
| 20:20.51 | paulyn900 | anyone want to buy n900 with broken usb? in usa |
| 20:20.51 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: it is not from scrolling, for sure |
| 20:21.03 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: For me, it consistently crashes when OPENING certain emails |
| 20:21.06 | DocScrutinizer | may be a friggin detaol in mails |
| 20:21.10 | Sc0rpius | RST38h, do you use MfE?= |
| 20:21.25 | RST38h | No |
| 20:21.28 | RST38h | God, no |
| 20:21.31 | Sc0rpius | just IMAP accounts? |
| 20:21.43 | RST38h | A GMail account and a POP3 account |
| 20:22.00 | Sc0rpius | does it crash viewing a gmail mail? |
| 20:22.20 | RST38h | Good question...I *think* I only saw it crash with POP3 emails |
| 20:22.30 | RST38h | May be wrong though: not receiving a lot of GMail stuff |
| 20:22.35 | paulyn900 | i think maemo shoud have used webkit browser its so quick |
| 20:22.44 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: shame on you. You should know how to open tickets |
| 20:22.46 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 20:22.51 | DocScrutinizer | and provide proper info |
| 20:22.56 | Sicelo_ | paulyn900: i would be wary of putting my sim card in an unknown phone.. if owner reports it as lost..you could find yourself answering stupid questions :/ |
| 20:23.01 | paulyn900 | midori port is alright |
| 20:23.27 | Sc0rpius | do you autodownload images in your emails or you press the image button to download them after viewing emails? also, does it crash in texts emails or heavy HTML with images mails' |
| 20:23.29 | Sc0rpius | ? |
| 20:23.31 | paulyn900 | its okay ill just say i bought it from someone |
| 20:23.31 | Sicelo_ | too bad i'm in southern africa.. i'd certainly buy your n900 |
| 20:23.32 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 20:23.36 | RST38h | Doc: Looks like the ticket is already open |
| 20:24.03 | RST38h | Doc:And I am not yet pissed off enough to open a ticket and insist on maintainers' attention to it |
| 20:24.12 | DocScrutinizer | k |
| 20:24.48 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless you are the one who can dissect the issue and track it down |
| 20:24.51 | Sc0rpius | anyway I would be the one with the ticket :P |
| 20:25.19 | RST38h | Doc: Lack any time =( |
| 20:25.23 | Sc0rpius | but wow I haven't creashed the Modest and I'm vieweing and scrolling mails like crazy |
| 20:25.41 | DocScrutinizer | send the offending mail to somebody else who's interested |
| 20:25.47 | RST38h | Doc: I mean, literally. Don't have enough time to sleep even. |
| 20:25.55 | Sc0rpius | maybe it's kinda of private but do you have an email that always crashes? |
| 20:26.20 | derf | RST38h: As long as you have time to IRC. |
| 20:26.21 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: I think I had. Once I catch another one, I will keep it there and contact you. |
| 20:26.41 | DocScrutinizer | sounds like a plan |
| 20:26.42 | RST38h | derf: Yea, but this is happening in parallel with some development |
| 20:27.03 | paulyn900 | n900 needs like an external portable power source for it to last one day |
| 20:27.41 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: don't mess with modest bugfixing, make a 1337-7-testing release - NOW |
| 20:28.23 | paulyn900 | and i canf even charge it my external charger take 3hours to fully charge |
| 20:28.25 | Sc0rpius | I wish I could reproduce the crash :( |
| 20:28.48 | t_s_o | how much free space is recommended to ensure diablo-turbo installs cleanly? |
| 20:29.00 | DocScrutinizer | yay |
| 20:29.12 | DocScrutinizer | those were the times :-) |
| 20:29.28 | Sicelo_ | understands DocScrutinizer's point |
| 20:29.31 | paulyn900 | i love maemo just frustrated with my broken device bbl |
| 20:29.50 | Sicelo_ | how much u selling it for? |
| 20:30.18 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.236.214.20) |
| 20:30.24 | DocScrutinizer | paulyn900: get "your" hw fixed |
| 20:30.43 | paulyn900 | i know |
| 20:30.43 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, modest isn't "assigned" to me |
| 20:30.46 | MohammadAG | and downgrading Qt means downgrading hildon-desktop |
| 20:31.02 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, all doesn't matter |
| 20:31.17 | DocScrutinizer | even good, so you don't have to bother with it |
| 20:31.36 | DocScrutinizer | get 1337-7 and move it to a testing branch |
| 20:32.17 | DocScrutinizer | prepare a way for normal mortals to install it, and publish the news cssu got a testing now |
| 20:32.37 | DocScrutinizer | after one or two weeks, decide whether to call it stable now |
| 20:32.43 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 20:32.49 | *** join/#maemo klasu__ (~klasu@a88-115-202-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:32.54 | MohammadAG | ... |
| 20:33.14 | MohammadAG | you do realize that up to maemo7, nothing new was there? |
| 20:33.32 | DocScrutinizer | cssu7? |
| 20:33.46 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 20:34.16 | MohammadAG | without fixing the Qt bug in one way or another, I won't push a stable release |
| 20:34.21 | DocScrutinizer | yeah I realize, and that's exactly why this version is OK for a first testing that is exclusively targeted at fixing maemo bugs |
| 20:34.24 | paulyn900 | sicelo_ 250 usd |
| 20:34.36 | MohammadAG | also, I'd appreciate it if extras-devel got new versions of Qt Mobility, the current ones suck |
| 20:34.46 | DocScrutinizer | wtf, which Qt bug - in 1337-7??? |
| 20:35.06 | MohammadAG | mameo7 doesn't have any new features |
| 20:35.16 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-23-31.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:35.20 | DocScrutinizer | I never heard of mameo7 |
| 20:35.21 | MohammadAG | Features frozen on current release |
| 20:37.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm talking about 2010.36-2maemo13 |
| 20:37.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | aka 1337-7 |
| 20:37.49 | Sc0rpius | wow I can't crash this |
| 20:38.09 | *** part/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@88.80-203-123.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:39.27 | MohammadAG | Sc0rpius, I only encountered a modest crash once |
| 20:40.23 | *** join/#maemo renato_filho (~renato@187.58.109.51) |
| 20:40.30 | Sc0rpius | it crashed on me yesterday actually |
| 20:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | this version has actually been tested at very least by me for several weeks, maybe months, and it kinda works. No use in moving bleeding edge to testing after fixing most annoying recently known bugs, there'll be no better version to backport bugfixes from |
| 20:40.34 | Sc0rpius | just once too |
| 20:40.41 | Sc0rpius | I'm downloading the core dumps somebody posted in the bug |
| 20:41.27 | DocScrutinizer | the whole point of a testing version *is* it's *not* bleeding edge |
| 20:41.48 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I say let's use 2010.36-2maemo13 |
| 20:41.53 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@188.189.88.217) |
| 20:42.02 | Sc0rpius | what you don't like about cssu 14? |
| 20:42.33 | DocScrutinizer | all the bugs that MohammadAG thinks he has to fix before he can release that one for a testing version |
| 20:42.37 | DocScrutinizer | simple as that |
| 20:43.27 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 22:40:33] <DocScrutinizer> this version has actually been tested at very least by me for several weeks, maybe months, and it kinda works. No use in moving bleeding edge to testing after fixing most annoying recently known bugs, there'll be no better version to backport bugfixes from |
| 20:43.49 | Jaffa | also thinks that the new Qt version could perhaps use more in-depth testing, and having the first CSSU release out would alleviate the pressure on that |
| 20:44.11 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 20:44.27 | DocScrutinizer | hey, it's a testing(!!!) release |
| 20:44.56 | DocScrutinizer | means we're rather sure we fixed all the bugs we knew, but we expect some more to appear |
| 20:44.59 | Sc0rpius | just wants to crash Modest |
| 20:45.33 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/unique-bluetooth-handset-pink-6-hour-talk-160-hour-standby-24476 |
| 20:45.33 | DocScrutinizer | kill -SIGSEGV $(pidof modest) |
| 20:46.31 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@188.189.88.217) |
| 20:47.02 | DocScrutinizer | so pretty please go for 1337-7 for first testing release, and do it *now* |
| 20:47.49 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@89.142.212.141) |
| 20:48.01 | *** join/#maemo thmarkus (~thmarkus@p5DCE1479.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:48.17 | DocScrutinizer | fixing bugs in <bleeding edge> isn't like preparing a testing release, it's the contrary |
| 20:50.35 | kerio | i think bleeding edge is a pretty cool guy |
| 20:50.46 | kerio | eh introduces new features and bugs and doesn't afraid of anything |
| 20:52.56 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I see what you were talking about |
| 20:53.22 | *** join/#maemo renatofilho (~renato@177.17.71.19) |
| 20:56.01 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I've looked at the SHR video |
| 20:56.13 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 20:56.33 | DocScrutinizer | it's quite some months old |
| 20:56.40 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, seems that the GUI was designed by two persons - one who knows about usability and one who doesn't. |
| 20:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | the N900 one |
| 20:56.52 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 20:56.57 | DocScrutinizer | might be right |
| 20:57.03 | *** join/#maemo compengi` (~compengi@unaffiliated/compengi) |
| 20:57.18 | Venemo | why do you make your own UX anyway? you could use an existing one |
| 20:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | don't ask me |
| 20:57.54 | DocScrutinizer | I think much of that stuff based on raster's illume |
| 20:58.07 | DocScrutinizer | enlightenment, whatever |
| 20:58.42 | Venemo | well I don't really care what it's based on. and it really doesn't matter |
| 20:59.06 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@97.8.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 20:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | but, as always, there are some gifted devels, and some not so gifted, and if your team is short on manpower, you're happy about every helping hand |
| 20:59.12 | Venemo | what really matters is how good it looks ans how comfortable it is to use. |
| 21:00.00 | Venemo | yeah, I agree - all the more reason to use something that already exists instead of reinventing the wheel again. |
| 21:00.57 | *** join/#maemo kaawee (~kW@89.204.137.225) |
| 21:00.58 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: SHR is so far down the street of no return, that I'm trying to save cssu from, they don't care about usability, for sure not about "looking good", they have their devel playground to bring another "better component replacing XYZ" |
| 21:01.55 | Venemo | haah |
| 21:02.00 | Venemo | yeah |
| 21:02.09 | Venemo | sounds like the complete opposite of meego |
| 21:02.14 | DocScrutinizer | before they even start to think about 'looking good' they need a new platform as the old one got obsolete |
| 21:02.14 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:03.01 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, so, what is it that's got obsolete? |
| 21:03.21 | DocScrutinizer | that's why SHR not seen any testing not to mention stable release since ~2 years, afaik |
| 21:05.01 | Venemo | heh. |
| 21:05.05 | *** join/#maemo bekoz (~bekoz@184.91.204.51) |
| 21:05.11 | *** join/#maemo beford (~fercho@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 21:11.46 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: May 05 17:14:23 <mickeyl> in http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/openmoko-cdevel.20110506.txt |
| 21:12.52 | *** join/#maemo renato_filho (~renato@187.113.73.69) |
| 21:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | also grep 20110507 for antric, mickeyl and DocScrutinizer |
| 21:13.27 | DocScrutinizer | antrik actually |
| 21:13.41 | Venemo | May 05 16:01:42 <antrik> DocScrutinizer: well, if you are willing to do whatever it takes to get it upstream, then *you* should be the one who starts the discussion on LKML... |
| 21:14.17 | DocScrutinizer | so what, read my answer as well |
| 21:14.27 | Venemo | I'm reading |
| 21:15.56 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-23-31.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:16.33 | Venemo | yeah DocScrutinizer, Linux world is full of stupid politics |
| 21:18.04 | Venemo | but the end comment sounds promising |
| 21:18.06 | Venemo | May 05 17:28:17 <mickeyl> yo, surely interesting. right now i think they're more pressuring issues, but once we have the connectivity issues sorted out, i'm sure there'll be movements towards that |
| 21:18.59 | DocScrutinizer | won't happen - there'll be other more pressing affairs by then |
| 21:19.28 | Venemo | well, I am not a kernel hacker either |
| 21:19.36 | DocScrutinizer | devels' playground, you know. No testing, no stable ever |
| 21:19.47 | Venemo | yea... |
| 21:19.58 | Venemo | but I don't get what's the point in that |
| 21:20.09 | DocScrutinizer | "let's port the shit to LG now, as N900 is not sold anymore..." |
| 21:20.44 | nox- | that reminds me of... http://linuxfr.org/news/linus-torvalds-l%E2%80%99interview-anniversaire-des-20%C2%A0ans-du-noyau#comment-1230981 |
| 21:20.47 | DocScrutinizer | [9 months later] "\o/ we got modem to connect to GPRS" |
| 21:21.11 | Venemo | why is it that all these ports of various projects suck so miserable? |
| 21:21.17 | Venemo | miserably* |
| 21:21.36 | DocScrutinizer | becuase devels take no pride in *finalizing* things |
| 21:21.36 | nox- | lack of manpower? |
| 21:21.40 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: Funding. |
| 21:21.42 | Venemo | and why is the phone modem always the barrier? |
| 21:21.45 | ShadowJK | Maybe it's actually hard and maybe it takes actual effort? :-) |
| 21:22.03 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: Maemo probably had well over a thousand paid devs involved. |
| 21:22.13 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: Lack of documents. |
| 21:22.18 | Venemo | nor meego, nor nitdroid, nor SHR, neither of them manages to actually make a phone call. |
| 21:22.20 | SpeedEvil | The many-eyes fallacy. |
| 21:22.38 | Venemo | lack of docs may be a good excuse for Nitdroid or SHR, but not for MeeGo |
| 21:22.38 | SpeedEvil | The many eyes hypothesis is that with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow. |
| 21:22.53 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that this is only true for 'pure' code. |
| 21:22.57 | Venemo | "many-eyes" requires "many eyes" who _care_ |
| 21:23.20 | SpeedEvil | Once you start to get into hardware - the number of devs who would have a clue plummets. |
| 21:23.28 | SpeedEvil | So have a clue * care = ~0 |
| 21:23.32 | SpeedEvil | And progress stalls. |
| 21:23.34 | Venemo | I see. |
| 21:23.36 | ShadowJK | Meego makes phonecalls now :-) |
| 21:23.43 | Venemo | ShadowJK, nope, it doesn't |
| 21:23.50 | Venemo | not for me anyway |
| 21:23.53 | DocScrutinizer | SHR also does afaik, just sound is missing |
| 21:23.58 | Venemo | heheh |
| 21:24.09 | Venemo | phone call without sound is not phone call by definition. |
| 21:24.13 | ShadowJK | The phone calls part actually requires some code writing :-) |
| 21:24.17 | DocScrutinizer | maybe that changed though, during last 12h |
| 21:24.35 | Venemo | also, MeeGo can't connect to wifi either, and the handset ux sucks |
| 21:24.53 | Venemo | they have made a _VERY_ good job on its performance however |
| 21:25.36 | ShadowJK | I think the idea of upstreaming everything came from the frustration of all the hw having custom drivers that break with every new release of everything else |
| 21:25.44 | Venemo | yeah |
| 21:25.48 | Venemo | and that's a good point |
| 21:25.57 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (progress stalls) and when somebody with a clue * interest points them to a flaw, to better code, to the problems involved for battery life etc, then it's "duh, we are no kernel hackers, so we gonna use what's upstream" |
| 21:26.39 | ShadowJK | But then you also need people with the passion, attention to detail, motivation, and most of all, time, to write code that gets accepted upstream |
| 21:27.05 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 21:27.16 | SpeedEvil | And sometimes upstream appear to be ass-hats. |
| 21:27.31 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, at this point, I think some piece of OSS software is much better destined to succeed than those that target phones. simply because they don't have to hack around the cell modem. (seems that the cell modem is always the most evil thing) |
| 21:27.42 | Venemo | meh |
| 21:27.48 | SpeedEvil | It's really not that. |
| 21:27.56 | SpeedEvil | Well - not that alone. |
| 21:27.57 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, at this point, I think some piece of OSS software which targets _Tablets_ is much better destined to succeed than those that target _phones_. simply because they don't have to hack around the cell modem. (seems that the cell modem is always the most evil thing) |
| 21:27.58 | ShadowJK | And these things are more complicated than you think. For example, I am more than able myself of writing code to control the battery gauge and battery charger hardware of the N900, but I would have no friggin clue about how to get it integrated and working together with the Linux kernel, let alone working together with any operating system ontop of the kernel |
| 21:28.03 | DocScrutinizer | even worse, you need somebody to "defend the new code, maintain it, and you will have a hard time to explain why the existing driver can't get fixed and API has to change" |
| 21:28.06 | SpeedEvil | A cellphone is a _fucking_huge_ codebase. |
| 21:28.27 | Venemo | sorry I typo'd the first one. |
| 21:28.41 | SpeedEvil | If you want it to do more than send and recieve texts, and make calls. |
| 21:28.49 | SpeedEvil | Even then, with the n900, that's a major task. |
| 21:29.15 | SpeedEvil | Especially if you want to track upstream. |
| 21:29.19 | ShadowJK | It doesn't help that 3g specifications includes reinventing all of Internet up until 2001 or so. |
| 21:29.36 | ShadowJK | in a new incompatible-with-the-real-internet way :) |
| 21:30.05 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@97.8.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:30.48 | Venemo | but why doesn't anyone actually send that fucking modem driver upstream? why didn't nokia for one do so? |
| 21:31.06 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: lol, yeah |
| 21:31.10 | SpeedEvil | Much of the nokia code is not upstreamable in its present state. |
| 21:31.30 | Venemo | I also don't understand why the actual manufacturers of the modem make a driver for it |
| 21:31.46 | Venemo | I really need to take a break |
| 21:31.51 | SpeedEvil | For example - component_version in /proc |
| 21:31.53 | Venemo | I also don't understand why the actual manufacturers of the modem _don't_ make a driver for it |
| 21:31.57 | SpeedEvil | Why is it not in cpuinfo |
| 21:32.09 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: not in the contract. |
| 21:32.19 | ShadowJK | In this case Nokia is the manufacturer. There's a driver in ofono, that uses phonet in kernel. I've seen phonet patches on linux kernel mailing list. |
| 21:32.41 | Venemo | I thought phonet is some closed source shit |
| 21:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: the maemo modem driver is closed source, the meego ofono one is still beta, and there are several quirks in RAPUYAMA that are not like what open cellphone specs (or what they're caled) require |
| 21:32.57 | Venemo | what's RAPUYAMA? |
| 21:33.08 | ShadowJK | The modem in N900 actually consists of a powerful ARM processor too, running its own firmware, with its own SDRAM. On its own it could actually run a low-end cellphone too :-) |
| 21:33.11 | DocScrutinizer | the N900 (et all) BB5 modem |
| 21:33.35 | DocScrutinizer | RAPUYAMA = baseband, GAZOO = PMU |
| 21:33.38 | Venemo | ShadowJK, so the N900 in fact has two processors? |
| 21:33.47 | ShadowJK | It depends on how you count processors |
| 21:33.54 | DocScrutinizer | yes, it actually has some dozen |
| 21:34.10 | Venemo | okay, if I count in the DSP and the others, then yeah |
| 21:34.29 | DocScrutinizer | LP5523 LED controler engines are almost a cpu |
| 21:34.40 | Venemo | but ShadowJK said that the modem has its own ARM CPU... not sure why it needs that though :D |
| 21:34.46 | ShadowJK | But Symbian handsets used to say "Dual CPU" in their specs. Then Symbian gained hard-realtime capability, after which they could run Symbian and Modem on the same CPU (on N900 it's one CPU for Modem and one CPU for operating system) :-) |
| 21:34.51 | *** join/#maemo Dragnslcr (~scott@c-24-147-239-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.07 | ShadowJK | It was a big costs-saving advantage for Nokia at one point :P |
| 21:35.09 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: It needs that for managing the GSM OTA protocol |
| 21:35.24 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, is that protocol so hard that it needs its own CPU? |
| 21:35.30 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 21:35.46 | *** join/#maemo Dragnslcr (~scott@c-24-147-239-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.50 | Venemo | heh |
| 21:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | esp if yu want the user to have full access to "the other" CPU |
| 21:35.52 | *** join/#maemo renato_filho (~renato@177.17.0.108) |
| 21:35.58 | Venemo | mhm |
| 21:36.09 | Venemo | well then no wonder that the cell modem uses up so much power |
| 21:36.23 | DocScrutinizer | it actually doesn't |
| 21:36.29 | DocScrutinizer | standby is like 4mA |
| 21:36.38 | DocScrutinizer | which is pretty decent |
| 21:36.44 | Venemo | well the device's battery lasts considerably longer in offline mode |
| 21:36.46 | ShadowJK | You know, when 3g specs were finalized, the fastest PC processor at the time was too weak to process all the protocols and algorithms required to implement 3g :-) |
| 21:36.56 | Venemo | heh |
| 21:36.59 | Venemo | I didn't know that |
| 21:37.04 | SpeedEvil | checks on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11091 |
| 21:37.06 | povbot | Bug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats |
| 21:37.09 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 21:37.15 | DocScrutinizer | sure Venemo - that's because TX is blasting with up to 0.5W |
| 21:38.30 | *** join/#maemo lopz (~jjlc@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 21:38.31 | Venemo | mhmm |
| 21:38.42 | ShadowJK | Mostly power drain happens because of CDMA, your phone has to "join" other phones transmitting. Like a choir singing a chorus. Every phone has to regulate their transmission power accurately and precisely, so that no single one becomes too powerful, and so that the base station can still tell them apart. Once your phone is singing in the choir, it can't exit for a few seconds or so. |
| 21:39.03 | ShadowJK | So, every single packet of data transmitted makes your phone transmit for like 5 seconds. |
| 21:39.08 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: make sure your GPRS packet radio AP setup is empty, so no way any data gets transfered either way, and watch N900 standby like 250h on GSM |
| 21:39.12 | ShadowJK | Which is roughly equivalent to 5 seconds of talk time. |
| 21:40.00 | ShadowJK | If you're transfering data at high speed, the power drain is 2 - 4X that of "talk time" power consumption |
| 21:40.01 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, yeah, GSM (even EDGE) also lasts considerably longer than 3G/HSDPA |
| 21:40.30 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: see ShadowJK 's nice explanation above. 3G == WCDMA |
| 21:41.01 | ShadowJK | GSM/EDGE is TDMA. Instead of everyone transmitting at the same time, they all get a small timeslot during which they must attempt to transmit their data. After that, another device gets the chance to transmit. |
| 21:41.16 | Venemo | mhmm |
| 21:41.28 | Venemo | thanks for explaining ShadowJK :) |
| 21:41.33 | DocScrutinizer | which makes for the 200Hz humm on 2G |
| 21:41.40 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.184.215) |
| 21:42.00 | ShadowJK | There's lots of extra overhead because EDGE is a kludge ontop of a kludge ontop of a kludge, etc... so it's actually pretty inefficient overall.. But, for always-on stuff like IRC and instant messengers, it's alot better than 3g |
| 21:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | was it 200? |
| 21:42.11 | ShadowJK | Dunno :-) |
| 21:42.38 | ShadowJK | The tip-tap-tip-tap in speakers is from the low-rate command channel I think... and then there's the hum at.. yeah, 200-400hz somewhere? |
| 21:42.52 | DocScrutinizer | 200 |
| 21:43.16 | DocScrutinizer | google for GSM timeslice - or slots |
| 21:43.29 | DocScrutinizer | think it was 200 |
| 21:43.46 | ShadowJK | I think the chinese are on the right track with their TCDMA based 3g/4g solution. I know they just did it to be different and reduce patent licensing expenses, but hey |
| 21:43.57 | ShadowJK | oh wait |
| 21:44.04 | ShadowJK | nevermind |
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| 21:44.10 | ShadowJK | I don't know how TCDMA works :) |
| 21:44.22 | DocScrutinizer | btw that's also where that nice Timing Advance value comes from - that tells you aout your distance to BTS on a 550m accuracy |
| 21:44.33 | ShadowJK | Yeah :) |
| 21:45.03 | GAN900 | Ah, electronics. |
| 21:45.11 | ShadowJK | Then we have wifi. Wifi is unique, its spectrum management facility is best described as "FUCK ME, FUCK YOU!" |
| 21:45.47 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: that's definitely no electronics |
| 21:46.00 | Venemo | ShadowJK, what do you mean by "FUCK ME, FUCK YOU!"? |
| 21:46.13 | SpeedEvil | http://fatpita.net/?i=7269 |
| 21:46.16 | ShadowJK | Every station shouts, and the one that shouts first or loudest gets to speak, and then shouts until it gets its message across, however long that might take, blocking everyone else. |
| 21:46.16 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, close enough for 5:46 on a Saturday. :P |
| 21:46.27 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: that's what sw devels think about as "duh electronics, doesn't matter" |
| 21:46.49 | Venemo | GAN900, what 5:46? where are you? :O |
| 21:46.50 | GAN900 | ShadowJK, makes the hardware rather cheap though, no? |
| 21:47.03 | DocScrutinizer | in fact that's basics about how stuff works, and most of it is sw related |
| 21:47.05 | GAN900 | Venemo, in the land of 12-hour time. |
| 21:47.22 | Venemo | GAN900, it's 23:47 here |
| 21:47.58 | DocScrutinizer | good (UGT) morning everybody then |
| 21:47.59 | GAN900 | 17:47 here, but I was saving digits. |
| 21:48.04 | ShadowJK | GAN900, no not really. It's actually just someone who copy&pasted bits of the ethernet spec, and then someone had to implement it in hardware. |
| 21:48.12 | ShadowJK | on wireless, which behaves entirely different to wired. |
| 21:48.30 | Venemo | GAN900, ah. I thought you meant 5:46 AM :P |
| 21:49.34 | Venemo | ShadowJK, btw, are you an EE too? |
| 21:49.38 | ShadowJK | Compare to like wimax, which allocates a fixed-length of transmission time (TX and RX) to every station, during which they'll push through as much data as possible. This ensures everyone gets a fair share of spectral bandwidth :-) |
| 21:49.43 | ShadowJK | Venemo, no |
| 21:50.27 | Venemo | ShadowJK, you sure do know a lot about this stuff |
| 21:50.29 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: He's knowledgeable enough to count as junior EE to me |
| 21:50.30 | ShadowJK | At this point I'm at best some sort of ad-hoc hybrid of unqualified ME and AE :) |
| 21:50.45 | SpeedEvil | AE? |
| 21:50.50 | ShadowJK | automation |
| 21:51.08 | GAN900 | ShadowJK, ah, interesting. |
| 21:51.15 | Venemo | I'm having my first year in uni, studying EE |
| 21:52.27 | Sicelo_ | is still reading that Torvalds link. good reading imo |
| 21:53.13 | Venemo | Sicelo_, what Torvalds link? |
| 21:53.59 | DocScrutinizer | eeew, knew it - FRENCH |
| 21:54.19 | DocScrutinizer | ouch, that headache.... |
| 21:54.34 | SpeedEvil | It's not actually a revealing interrview IMO |
| 21:54.50 | DocScrutinizer | wtf, you all read that? |
| 21:54.56 | Sicelo_ | the one DocScrutinizer gave: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/openmoko-cdevel.20110506.tx |
| 21:55.00 | Sicelo_ | t |
| 21:55.04 | Sicelo_ | yay :P |
| 21:55.08 | DocScrutinizer | meh, that's a chanlog |
| 21:55.36 | Venemo | Sicelo_, how is that a "Torvalds link"? |
| 21:55.47 | DocScrutinizer | yeah .oO(???) |
| 21:55.59 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not Linus ;-P |
| 21:56.44 | Sicelo_ | maybe wrong wording Venemo :-S |
| 21:56.45 | DocScrutinizer | I guess he did a ECNP |
| 21:56.51 | Venemo | wut? |
| 21:56.59 | DocScrutinizer | c&p ERROR |
| 21:57.09 | Venemo | aah. |
| 21:57.20 | Sicelo_ | i'm reading it via lynx, and it looks like an interview to me ;) |
| 21:57.35 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-05-07 23:20:45] <nox-> that reminds me of... http://linuxfr.org/news/linus-torvalds-l%E2%80%99interview-anniversaire-des-20%A0ans-du-noyau#comment-1230981 |
| 21:57.53 | Venemo | ah |
| 21:57.56 | Sicelo_ | omg |
| 21:58.03 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo_: please quote like 8 words of it |
| 21:58.09 | Sicelo_ | that's the one i meant |
| 21:58.13 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, it gives me an error |
| 21:58.38 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: forget it, it's friggin froggy french |
| 21:58.57 | nox- | well there is the original en interview in it too |
| 21:59.11 | nox- | thats what the #comment tag is |
| 21:59.12 | Venemo | heh |
| 21:59.25 | nox- | doesnt speak fr either :) |
| 21:59.27 | Sicelo_ | my bad |
| 22:03.07 | SpeedEvil | http://linuxfr.org/nodes/85904/comments/1230981 - it's in english |
| 22:03.22 | SpeedEvil | So the first and the very negative answer is that I absolutely despise the people who try to push the GPL as being about "ethics". |
| 22:03.22 | SpeedEvil | I think that's absolute bullshit. Why? Because ethics are to me something private. Whenever you use it as an argument for why somebody_else should do something, you're no longer being ethical, you're just being a sanctimonious dick-head. |
| 22:03.40 | Sicelo_ | that's the one i'm reading |
| 22:03.45 | ruskie | haha |
| 22:03.56 | ruskie | guess he has a skewed reality field |
| 22:04.09 | Sicelo_ | i'm here now: LinuxFR : Various people criticized kernel security. Do you think.. |
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| 22:06.55 | Sicelo_ | wow.. him comments on openbsd :D |
| 22:07.03 | Sicelo_ | s/him/his |
| 22:07.13 | ruskie | wasn't that the wanking monkeys one? |
| 22:07.52 | Sicelo_ | Linus Torvalds : I think that any single-purpose OS project is a failure, and it doesn't matter what the purpose is. Security on its own is not a worthy goal - you need to have users for security to even matter in the first place. |
| 22:13.06 | ruskie | well the point is they have users |
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| 22:14.29 | Sicelo_ | true that |
| 22:14.52 | ruskie | but frankly all these charismatic leaders tend to be full of bull anyway ;) |
| 22:15.12 | Sicelo_ | u mean linus? |
| 22:15.21 | ruskie | among them yeah |
| 22:16.01 | GAN900 | ruskie, seems so, doesn't it? |
| 22:16.15 | GAN900 | Besides, Linus is an Android supporter. The bastard. |
| 22:16.26 | Corsac | well, at least android has users |
| 22:16.30 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-92297.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 22:16.53 | Sicelo_ | yeah.. i noticed his android comments too |
| 22:16.57 | GAN900 | At what cost, though. |
| 22:18.32 | GAN900 | I think Android has probably stolen a whole generation of open source programmers and enthusiasts. |
| 22:18.59 | Venemo | android is horseshit |
| 22:19.47 | *** part/#maemo bekoz (~bekoz@184.91.204.51) |
| 22:20.13 | GAN900 | It's a con job |
| 22:20.43 | ruskie | wants to bash head into wall until brain splatters... |
| 22:20.54 | GAN900 | Sounds like fun. |
| 22:21.06 | GAN900 | Or maybe sounds like me trying to get Natty to behave. |
| 22:21.08 | ruskie | bosses for some insane reason seem to want to developed mobile apps... |
| 22:21.13 | ruskie | or even do cloud services |
| 22:21.17 | ruskie | aarrrgghhh |
| 22:21.37 | merlin1991 | ~seen khertan |
| 22:21.47 | infobot | khertan <~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-191-117.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 4d 5h 31m 7s ago, saying: 'i didn't think :)'. |
| 22:21.52 | Sicelo_ | i gotta sleep now |
| 22:22.20 | Sicelo_ | only wishes he could do something for maemo community |
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| 22:37.14 | Venemo | GAN900, Natty? |
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| 22:42.49 | MohammadAG | Venemo, Ubuntu 11.04 |
| 22:43.43 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@222.210.173.13) |
| 22:45.02 | Venemo | MohammadAG, aah. you could just say bugbuntu n+1 |
| 22:45.11 | GAN900 | Yes, that. |
| 22:45.13 | Venemo | :P |
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| 22:50.59 | DocScrutinizer | buntkuh |
| 22:51.08 | DocScrutinizer | ~buntkuh |
| 22:51.30 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: await a lesson later on |
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| 22:52.01 | DocScrutinizer | booze |
| 22:52.44 | DocScrutinizer | on a last remark: couldn't agree more with Linus |
| 22:53.49 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 22:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | just he completely ignores most of andidiot folks are dickheads who don't care about anything except their own little thing |
| 22:55.45 | DocScrutinizer | seeing where android came from, that's quite natural |
| 22:58.48 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: Linus said something about android? |
| 22:59.12 | Venemo | lolcat, yep |
| 22:59.53 | Venemo | anyway |
| 22:59.55 | Venemo | I'm gonna sleep now |
| 22:59.57 | Venemo | bb |
| 23:00.25 | *** join/#maemo renatofilho (~renato@187.58.101.248) |
| 23:00.33 | lolcat | Venemo: Link? |
| 23:00.41 | lolcat | Venemo: Are you Torvald Linus? |
| 23:01.08 | Venemo | lolcat, scrollback.... voilá: http://linuxfr.org/nodes/85904/comments/1230981 |
| 23:01.26 | Venemo | lolcat, it's an inteview with Linux. |
| 23:01.29 | Venemo | lolcat, it's an inteview with Linus |
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| 23:18.05 | lolcat | Venemo: Cool |
| 23:21.49 | MohammadAG | we need a vbulliten app |
| 23:22.17 | lolcat | We need a wheater app that shows images of raindrops and a windshield wiper when it is raining |
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| 23:42.38 | Sc0rpius | does anybody knows how to turn stderr in the console in the N900? |
| 23:42.50 | Sc0rpius | because it is totally ignored |
| 23:43.03 | Sc0rpius | if I run the same program in scratchbox I can see all the stderr output |
| 23:43.06 | Sc0rpius | but none in the device |
| 23:44.47 | ShadowJK | and you're starting them from a terminal in both cases? |
| 23:45.05 | Sc0rpius | yeah |
| 23:45.55 | ShadowJK | Well that's very strange then, because when you start it from a working terminal, the stdout and stderr gets connected to the terminal |
| 23:45.59 | MohammadAG | is there a way to debug an app launched with dbus? |
| 23:46.07 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 23:46.16 | Sc0rpius | hmm |
| 23:46.24 | Sc0rpius | and a echo thing >/dev/stderr works |
| 23:46.32 | Sc0rpius | maybe it's not stderr what I'm looking for |
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| 23:46.55 | Sc0rpius | [13534]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - SaveToDraftsMenu: missing action ActionsSaveToDrafts |
| 23:47.00 | MohammadAG | my app crashes when launched with DBus, but not when launched from terminal |
| 23:47.02 | Sc0rpius | I want those kind of lines to show in the device |
| 23:47.17 | ShadowJK | I've seen those when I've launched stuff from xterm |
| 23:47.33 | MohammadAG | syslog |
| 23:47.45 | ShadowJK | I don't think that goes to syslog :-) |
| 23:48.22 | DocScrutinizer | /dev/stderr is quite probably sth different than fileahndle 2 of a process |
| 23:48.49 | ShadowJK | MohammadAG, if it's your own app, then at the starting of the app I'd just reassign stdout/stderr to a file somewhere if such output is what you're after |
| 23:49.08 | DocScrutinizer | echo this-goes-to-stderr 2>&1 is |
| 23:49.10 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, nah, the app is closed for some reason |
| 23:49.10 | DocScrutinizer | it |
| 23:49.15 | ShadowJK | There's also easy methods for sending stuff to syslog, not that I rememver what hte functions are called |
| 23:49.20 | MohammadAG | so I want to debug segfaults |
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| 23:50.06 | MohammadAG | isn't there a way to prevent the app from closing on segfault? |
| 23:50.22 | nox- | attach a gdb? |
| 23:50.38 | nox- | or enable coredumps if that works on n900 |
| 23:51.11 | MohammadAG | nox-, doesn't that prevent the app from doing what it normally does? |
| 23:51.30 | nox- | well you'd hit c for continue |
| 23:51.52 | nox- | and maybe tell gdb to pass one or the other signal thru |
| 23:51.52 | ShadowJK | If it receives alot of signals normally, you'd tell gdb to ignore those |
| 23:51.57 | nox- | yeah |
| 23:51.58 | Sc0rpius | MohammadAG is right, those go to /var/log/messages with syslog |
| 23:52.10 | ShadowJK | awesome |
| 23:52.56 | nox- | if coredumps work you can also look at those with gdb after a crash |
| 23:53.19 | nox- | just never tried that on the device :) |
| 23:53.39 | MohammadAG | they work, I just don't know how to enable them :p |
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| 23:53.55 | nox- | ulimit -c unlimited? |
| 23:53.59 | nox- | or is there more to it? |
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| 23:54.44 | MohammadAG | Program terminated with signal SIGKILL, Killed. |
| 23:54.45 | MohammadAG | The program no longer exists. |
| 23:54.45 | MohammadAG | wtf |
| 23:54.55 | ShadowJK | heh |
| 23:54.59 | MohammadAG | SIGKILL isn't a segfault |
| 23:55.04 | nox- | true |
| 23:55.04 | MohammadAG | why the fuck is it getting killed |
| 23:55.09 | nox- | might just be oom |
| 23:55.17 | DocScrutinizer | ooops, of course 1>&2 |
| 23:55.20 | MohammadAG | oom? |
| 23:55.28 | ShadowJK | There's that thing with Maemo, iirc, where you have to reply to something or other to let it know you're alive, or else it kills you |
| 23:55.29 | nox- | out of memory |
| 23:55.33 | nox- | (resp swap) |
| 23:55.40 | ShadowJK | OOM would be in dmesg |
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| 23:56.14 | MohammadAG | nothing about that |
| 23:56.14 | MohammadAG | and wtf is it with the [42388.512329] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up errors |
| 23:56.32 | DocScrutinizer | there's been that funny stuff that killed apps like 60s after starting them |
| 23:56.45 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, this is it |
| 23:56.56 | DocScrutinizer | was sth very star |
| 23:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | strange |
| 23:57.08 | nox- | killing it with the big hammer? |
| 23:57.10 | MohammadAG | I hope this isn't the hildon-desktop hibernate feature |
| 23:57.27 | nox- | sigkill isnt very nice :P |
| 23:57.36 | ShadowJK | are you getting killed 60s after start? |
| 23:57.56 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yeah, seems so |
| 23:58.06 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, yeah |
| 23:58.09 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: what was that? |
| 23:58.10 | ShadowJK | the wl1251 error indicates weak signal or access point with uncooperative power saving features |
| 23:58.15 | MohammadAG | I didn't time it but |
| 23:58.20 | MohammadAG | tarts apt |
| 23:58.24 | MohammadAG | starts app* even |
| 23:58.53 | DocScrutinizer | a lot of apps had that eventually |
| 23:59.06 | DocScrutinizer | was a weird little bit |
| 23:59.10 | ShadowJK | If I remember correctly, there is thing that specifically requires a response (or a message) within X seconds of getting started, or else hildon or libosso or whatever kills it |
| 23:59.16 | ShadowJK | But I don't remember the details |
| 23:59.18 | DocScrutinizer | like stdout not assigned or whatever |
| 23:59.31 | ShadowJK | IIRC, in the N8x0 days it was even on a developer FAQ somewhere. |
