IRC log for #maemo on 20110421

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01:25.05pupnik_mubarak arrested :)
01:25.06pupnik_and his sons :D
01:25.07pupnik_thanks to bradley manning
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03:01.56pupnik_the blue on the n900 is stunningly deep
03:02.05pupnik_something is unusual about it
03:02.23pupnik_i have to reduce saturation on blue to match my laptop
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03:45.23TiagoTiagohi
03:47.00TiagoTiagoi had to reflash my N900, and now i don't remember what was the secret to keeping enough space in rootfs after installing all my programs...is there a progam that will scan my rootfs and gimme a list of all files i can safelly symlink to somewhere outside that cramped little closet?
03:49.27TiagoTiagoi already moved out most of the big files and folders i identifyied as belonging to installed programs or that aren't system files
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03:51.00ds3is there a way to get the rss reader widget to show only feeds I want on the widget and not all of them?
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04:29.40Sazpaimonis it possible to use gcc 4.4 in scratchbox?
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05:08.00RST38hWell. Moo all.
05:08.44derfmoooo0000000000000ooooooooooooooooooooo00000000000000o0o
05:08.52RST38hheya derf
05:11.15derfWhat's shakin'?
05:11.19chx~moo
05:11.19infobotACTION mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass
05:14.02derf<PROTECTED>
05:14.02derf< MooOOOoo? >
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05:16.25RST38hderf: Not much. Lots of work, no fun
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05:17.09derfYeah, I know what you mean.
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06:35.30psychologecan somebody run MDK3 on N900?
06:37.51psychologei want try to crack hide essid wep.
06:39.19psychologecan somebody give some suggest?how to ?
06:42.35lollooah MDK
06:43.43psychologelolloo.ya,wireless ddos crack hide wep
06:44.36lollooI have no experience but sound good
06:45.54psychologecan somebody interest it ?? and complie it to N900
06:46.11RST38hdo-it-yourself?
06:50.14psychologeyes i agree,i want too,but now i can't do it,
06:50.43psychologei study python,new to linux
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06:58.01mecepsychologe, you can try to compile it directly first. perhaps it works :)
07:03.48psychologeok,do it myself.
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08:41.50Khertan11337 pourcent of Pi == 42
08:42.03Khertan1Morning !
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08:44.20userKhertan1: pourcent?
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08:44.58Khertan11337 * Pi / 100
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09:16.45jhb1Hi *, the status light is very dim (e.g yellow or green). When freshly booted, it sometimes starts of normal, but right now its very hard so see it all. Any ideas?
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09:31.44Venemogood morning
09:32.57chem|stmorning
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09:41.57mrAlmondHi all
09:42.15Venemohi
09:42.31mrAlmondJust a question..does maemo use an Xserver + egl ?
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09:45.59VenemomrAlmond, afaik Maemo uses Xorg
09:46.08VenemomrAlmond, not sure about egl
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09:47.27mrAlmondI'm asking this because I'm doing something similar for an embedded device that has egl support
09:47.41mrAlmondon framebuffer everything is smooth
09:47.54mrAlmondbut on xorg it's very slow
09:48.27mrAlmondAs test application I'm using this one from maemo : http://wiki.maemo.org/SimpleGL_example
09:48.28VenemomrAlmond, well, I dunno what you mean by "something similar"
09:48.52mrAlmondI'm talking about the graphic stack
09:49.00Venemomhm
09:49.08mrAlmondso qt + xorg + egl
09:49.15Venemowell, Maemo supports OpenGL ES
09:49.22VenemoI don't know what egl is
09:50.18mrAlmondhttp://www.khronos.org/egl/
09:50.31mrAlmondthis example uses egl : http://wiki.maemo.org/SimpleGL_example
09:50.41Venemookay
09:51.03VenemoI'm sure someone knowledgeable will answer your question. maybe ask DocScrutinizer
09:51.17VenemoI have to leave now.
09:51.23mrAlmondok tnx!!
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09:52.25mrAlmondDocScrutinizer: Hi
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09:56.09cityLightshi all
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10:18.21chem|stmrAlmond: yes
10:20.11chem|stmrAlmond: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL_ES_Libraries#Xlib%20%28X11%29
10:20.53mrAlmondtnx but I've already read that page
10:21.25mrAlmondI'm trying to understand how maemo can have good performances using xorg and egl
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10:23.47chem|stthere is no "good performance" in "xorg"
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10:29.53mrAlmondchem|st : So you mean that at the moment xorg + egl in maemo is not running smooth?
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10:30.12DocScrutinizerI'm the wrong one to ask on that topic, dunno why Venemo pinged me :-D
10:30.24mrAlmondDocScrutinizer : :-D
10:30.34DocScrutinizerlcuk might know
10:31.49mrAlmondlcuk : Hey, are you the right one to ask about? :-)
10:31.50BCMMwhat's the right way to make a native-looking text edit box in Qt?
10:32.23BCMMwhen i just use a QTextEdit, it looks wrong. the highlighting is buggy, and i can't scroll with a finger
10:32.44BCMMthe qt-maemo-example app has the same problem... surely there is a way to do this?
10:33.37BCMM(specifically, i can't select text with the touchscreen either, and if i select with the keyboard, there is no highlight colour, the text i've selected looks normal, and the rest of the line vanishes)
10:33.44chem|stmrAlmond: the drivers are outdated afaik and so are the libs...
10:33.59BCMMi'm trying to get behaviour similar to the Notes app
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10:35.00DocScrutinizerBCMM: notes is not qt I think :-P
10:35.05BCMMi know
10:35.23BCMMoh hang on. didn't see http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo/maemo5-textedit.html before; i'll see if that does what i think it should
10:35.29DocScrutinizerqt is kinda mindboggling fsckdup
10:35.41BCMMit is rather (on maemo)
10:36.02DocScrutinizeryeah on maemo, of course
10:36.08BCMMi know notes is GTK, but i would've thought one could at least to pretty text-selection in Qt...
10:36.26DocScrutinizerask MohammadAG
10:36.29trxBCMM use style sheets for that
10:36.40trx(to make stuff pretty )
10:36.46BCMMi'm impressed that an official example of a simple maemo text editor doesn't even work...
10:37.10DocScrutinizeryeah, very impressive ;-P
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10:37.24BCMMthough i don't know if qt-maemo-example is different from in any way http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo/mainwindows-application.html
10:37.26trxdamn mapped keys
10:37.31lcukmrAlmond, sorry, IDK what you are talking about.  I am looking over there <<<< at stuff atm, what do you want to achieve
10:37.47trxdoes anyone know how sys sends those keys to focused edit box?
10:38.01BCMMtrx: i've never used stylesheets in qt, can they make the text highlighting look the way it should?
10:38.17BCMM(by which i mean, the way it looks in GTK, and teh way the same Qt code looks on a linux PC)
10:38.19trxBCMM you can do pretty much anything with them
10:38.36DocScrutinizerlcuk: topic been egl
10:38.36trxnever styled a text edit before tho
10:41.12mrAlmondlcuk : I'm trying to have good performances on an embedded device running qt + xorg + egl...I'm asking here because maemo has a very similar architecture
10:41.34lcukhow well does your app work on Maemo? :)
10:41.34DocScrutinizertrx: fool speaking "isn't that via X events?"
10:41.52kwtm_Hi! Is there a maemo app that syncs decently with google calendar?  Or even if it's some command-line thing that imports it into a vCal file or something...
10:41.56trxBCMM http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/stylesheet-examples.html check this page
10:42.44Cor-Aikwtm_: mail for exchange
10:42.45trxDocScrutinizer probably, but the wierd thing is, X Term, Notes, etc (GTK?) are recieving them properly, while Qt apps do not
10:42.50DocScrutinizerlcuk: I love your approach
10:42.51mrAlmondlcuk : Do you know which kind of xorg server version is running on maemo...and if it's using some sort of hw accelerations?
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10:43.15lcukDocScrutinizer, lol
10:43.31trxQt apps just recieve standard keys, which is frustrating :/
10:43.33lcukmrAlmond, a good one, lots of people put incredible amount of effort to ensure it ran well
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10:44.08lcukbut if you have the device, check with dpkg-* functions to see the versions
10:44.16BCMMjust built http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo/maemo5-textedit.html , and it scrolls
10:44.18mrAlmondlcuk : So it's not an easy question....how can I obtain the maemo rootfs ?
10:44.21BCMMbut hte selection stuff is the same
10:44.37BCMMno selection by finger, and keyboard selection is unusably wrong
10:44.47DocScrutinizermrAlmond: see
10:44.50DocScrutinizer~flash
10:44.50infobotflashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
10:45.07lcukmrAlmond, go to store, purchase n900?
10:45.09kwtmtesting ... am I "kwtm" again?
10:45.11kwtmok.
10:45.15trxBCMM : try to add : "selection-background-color: lightgray;"
10:45.20lcukuse code to download firmware
10:45.29trxBCMM (not tested)
10:45.42kwtmCor-Ai: Sorry, mail for exchange ... is that a package, or are you asking me to send email to the maemo mailing list to find the answer to my question?
10:45.44BCMMtrx: yeah, going to try that
10:45.45DocScrutinizeryou'll need an arbitrary IMEI like 356938030954300
10:45.52BCMMbut then it'll be ignoring theme colours...
10:46.17trxyeah :/
10:46.30Cor-Aikwtm: its the name on the app :p google it and you will see!
10:46.31mrAlmondlcuk : clever, very clever
10:46.31BCMMthis is kinda ridiculous...
10:47.01BCMMMohammadAG: around?
10:47.03lcukmrAlmond, you could also use the maemo package tool to see versions
10:47.21DocScrutinizermrAlmond: stop bitching, say thanks to DocScrutinizer51
10:47.24lcukuse the search here http://maemo.org/packages/
10:47.40MohammadAGsup
10:48.08BCMMMohammadAG: doc suggested I ask you about Qt...
10:48.18DocScrutinizermrAlmond: flasher can extract the rootfs image from fiasco.bin
10:48.35kwtmCor-Ai: Thanks for the info.  Wow, that's a huge thread to read through ...
10:48.37BCMMMohammadAG: is it possible to create something like a QTextEdit, but looking correct?
10:48.41mrAlmondDocScrutinizer : Yes I'm looking at that, thak you
10:48.49BCMM(specifically, selection is all wrong in several ways in a regular QTextEdit)
10:49.01MohammadAGBCMM, why not use QStyleSheets?
10:49.29BCMMMohammadAG: isn't that for overriding native colours and so on?
10:50.32MohammadAGwhat's wrong with it?
10:50.37BCMMhmm
10:50.48MohammadAGselection that is
10:50.58BCMMMohammadAG: i'm trying to use the system's selection colour for the background of selected text...
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10:51.34BCMMat present, selected text looks like normal text, but the rest of the line looks invisible (white on white?)
10:51.48DocScrutinizerbug in qt
10:51.54MohammadAGQt 4.7.2 bug
10:52.02BCMMoh, is that a known bug?
10:52.05BCMMok
10:52.08MohammadAGyes
10:52.14DocScrutinizerno, we heard it first time now ;-P
10:52.28trxhow does something like that go unnoticed? :/
10:52.37DocScrutinizerpfff
10:52.38BCMMsorry, for some reason i was assuming I had to do something to properly port the application
10:52.58BCMMlike some sort of QSpecialMaemoTextEditThing
10:53.01DocScrutinizeryeah, purge qt4.7.2
10:53.26BCMMDocScrutinizer: sorry, debian newbie - are you talking about downgrading to the previous Qt version?
10:53.29chem|stkwtm: MfE is pre installed
10:53.30BCMM(and how does one do that)
10:53.36trxdamn i hate rx-51
10:53.44BCMM(i mean, i am a debian newbie)
10:53.49DocScrutinizerBCMM: same here, but yes, 4.7.2 is borked it seems
10:53.52trxis there any documentation about how it works?
10:54.09trx(not the file format)
10:54.14kwtmchem|st: Yes, I'm reading about it now.  Fascinating.  So, then, the google calendar would be sunc (sync'd) to the built-in N900 calendar app?  That's not too bad.
10:54.18DocScrutinizerBCMM: ask moh
10:54.43chem|stkwtm: as I don't give google anything I don't know
10:54.45BCMMMohammadAG: sorry to bother you again... how can i downgrade qt, and will everything break?
10:54.51trxBCMM do you have any mapped keys?
10:54.52MohammadAGno, the point of Qt is to write code once
10:54.59BCMMtrx: not quite sure what you mean
10:55.17trxlike Shift + Fn + b = "{"
10:55.19trxetc
10:55.22BCMMtrx: no, why?
10:55.24chem|stkwtm: if the world is a RTS game, google is the techy and we left it alone for too long already
10:55.41trxi wanted to ask you to test it on that text edit while you're at it
10:55.42BCMMMohammadAG: oh, and what about finger-selection, like in the notes app? is that possible?
10:55.57trxbecause they dont work on my controls
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10:56.25BCMMtrx: apt-get install qt-maemo-example if you want to play with a plain QTextEdit
10:56.57kwtmchem|st: Actually, I only ended up giving Google anything because I didn't feel I had a usable calendar option on the N900.  I can't remember what exactly the problem was ... I think I had trouble importing my calendar stuff from the Treo?  Or was it the GUI that wasn't so good?  Can't remember.
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10:58.36DocScrutinizeractually the calendar app is the least integrated closed app of the whole bunch, should be easy and painless to replace with anything better
10:59.04chem|stkwtm: I just use the build in calendar for now, a sync to some online (free open at best at my servers) calendar would be nice but there is no caldav webdav support I know about
10:59.51chem|stDocScrutinizer: yeah but I don't know any "good" calendar apps neither
11:00.17BCMMDocScrutinizer: so what's the current status of Qt for maemo? do you think there will be updates, or will bug reports just make Nokia laugh?
11:00.33DocScrutinizerfrankly me neither, except maybe Kontact
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11:00.50chem|ston desktop I use orage or something
11:00.53kwtmDocScrutinizer: What do you think of GPE calendar?  Seems decent, except I wasn't sure if I wanted to "leave GPE summary running in the background so it can give me alarms", as the warning message said.  This was when I was first fiddling with the N900, so maybe I should take another look.
11:01.11DocScrutinizerBCMM: the 2nd half for sure, no idea about first half. Ask MohammadAG
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11:01.31BCMMDocScrutinizer: not sure i understood...
11:02.01DocScrutinizerI have no idea about state of Qt, but I'm sure bug reports make Nokia laugh
11:02.03MohammadAGBCMM, current status is community supported
11:02.14BCMMMohammadAG: ah, ok
11:02.19BCMMhmm, trying to google for how to do this keeps giving me instructions for aptitude...
11:02.25MohammadAGif someone could point me to where the selection happens in the source code, I might be able to fix it
11:02.47BCMMhow can one block a specific version of a package?
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11:03.09BCMMlike using gentoo's package.mask; such that automatic update to future versions is permitted
11:03.24DocScrutinizerhow sneaked 4.7.2 into your system?
11:03.25BCMMactually, i don't even know how to view available versions of a package on debian
11:03.26kwtmHey question about 1.3.3.7 --I still have to pore over the wiki, but just to get some live feedback here --any stability issues or known issues with performance?  If I upgrade to it (currently on PR 1.3), it's a firmware flash just like when I upgraded from PR1.2 to PR1.3?
11:04.20BCMMDocScrutinizer: libqt4-core              4.7.2~git20110302-0maemo -- don't know how
11:04.25BCMMDocScrutinizer: maybe installing freoffice?
11:04.40BCMMmaybe due to having used apt-get upgrade in the past
11:04.57DocScrutinizerkwtm: BCMM: ask MohammadAG - I'm not sure if CSSU introduces fsckdup 4.7.2
11:05.09DocScrutinizerBCMM: that's for sure evil
11:05.30kwtmok thx.
11:05.33BCMMis this easilly fixable? or should i just reflash/install CSSU?
11:06.14MohammadAGyes, CSSU introduced 4.7.2
11:07.55BCMMbut having 4.7.2~git20110302-0maemo is presumably still not normal?
11:09.41mikki-kunou, wow, the new cssu did apparently make the inbuilt cam go awesome :)
11:09.56mikki-kunmore fun options to choose from...
11:11.07SpeedEvilIn what way?
11:13.09mikki-kunchoosable color options as it seems, a small button which makes a shot when you touch it (on the interface) and also a timer-function (i didn't see that one before)
11:14.03mikki-kunand when focused it does kinda calculate how far the object is away from you... which was... well, let's just say my room got enourmously bigger :D
11:14.06DocScrutinizerthat's the community cam-ui replacement
11:14.24trxMohammadAG do you have any custom mapped keys on your n900? (if so, do they work on your Qt apps?)
11:14.27mikki-kunhm... must have been part of the cssu
11:14.47mikki-kuni didn't install to my knowledge a community cam-ui replacement...
11:15.16BCMMyeah, for me it appeared after a CSSU update
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11:15.35BCMMeither i don't know how to work it, or it has a couple of proble
11:15.37BCMMms.
11:16.03trxprobleM$ :)
11:16.27mikki-kunx)
11:16.28DocScrutinizerI refused recent CSSU update, and I'm pondering to completely abandon it and go back to my private way to cherrypick fixes
11:16.36ruskiewhy?
11:17.02DocScrutinizerCSSU is way too much experimental and has no stability policy whatsoever
11:17.15ruskieso basically like a ton of projects out there
11:17.22DocScrutinizerit seems focused on bleeding edge, and that's not what I want
11:17.30ruskieagreed sadly
11:17.53Robot101if it's broken, it's not very seamless is it? :D
11:17.59Robot101it should be called CSU
11:17.59Robot101:)
11:18.02ruskiemaybe you should setup your own repo for all those cherry picks..
11:18.14DocScrutinizerI suggested to have a stable and a devel CSSU, but no response
11:18.58ruskiewould be nice
11:19.11mikki-kunwell, if cssu does something i don't want it to and it freezes my device i am just too happy to flash it and restart from zero again... i've tried a bunch of stuff and i have some unneeded folders due to that... just to lazy to handpick them and kill them...
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11:21.13DocScrutinizerfact is CSSU introduces more new bugs than it fixes old ones, right now
11:22.12ruskiewhat actually breaks?
11:22.48DocScrutinizerI honestly don't see how cam-ui by nicolai metts the matra of CSSU "don't include things that can get shipped via normal repo"
11:23.16DocScrutinizermeets the mantra*
11:23.44DocScrutinizerand inclusion of qt4.7.2 also seems a *bad* step
11:24.10nealHow do I best detect when there is no cellular reception?  If there is an ongoing GPRS call, I can watch for com.nokia.csd.GPRS.Suspended(5, "No coverage"), but that doesn't work if there is no on going GPRS call.
11:25.07mikki-kunphone-control from mohammadAG does have a command which tells you about your cell-reception iirc
11:25.33mikki-kunbut that basically is as well some sort of dbus-command if my mind serves me right
11:25.55DocScrutinizerdbus signal
11:26.01DocScrutinizer"signal"
11:26.25nealDocScrutinizer: sure, but which one.
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11:29.40DocScrutinizersignal sender=:1.21 -> dest=(null destination) serial=7039 path=/com/nokia/phone/net; interface=Phone.Net; member=signal_strength_change
11:29.42DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
11:29.43DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
11:30.04DocScrutinizerdbus-monitor --system
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11:30.42trxDocScrutinizer do you by any chance have custom mapped keys in rx-51 ?
11:30.49DocScrutinizernope
11:30.52DocScrutinizersorry
11:31.05nealDocScrutinizer: are you implying that 100/89 means no reception?
11:31.08trxlooks like no qt app can recieve those keys
11:31.16DocScrutinizerneal: of course not
11:31.38nealthat makes no sense according to my understanding of the function the first is normalized signal strength and the second is negative dbm
11:31.41DocScrutinizerI have good reception here
11:32.01nealI saw this:
11:32.09nealsignal sender=:1.19 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5536 path=/com/nokia/phone/net; interface=Phone.Net; member=signal_strength_change
11:32.09neal<PROTECTED>
11:32.10neal<PROTECTED>
11:32.25nealsignal sender=:1.19 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5537 path=/com/nokia/csd/gprs; interface=com.nokia.csd.GPRS; member=Suspended
11:32.25neal<PROTECTED>
11:32.27neal<PROTECTED>
11:32.31DocScrutinizeryeah, I see all sorts of those
11:32.54nealso it is not clear that no coverage is easily implied from the signal_strength_change signal
11:33.00DocScrutinizernot the 'no coverage' though
11:33.26nealok
11:33.32DocScrutinizerwell, GPRS no coverage may happen unrelated to signal strength
11:33.37nealso, that's just an aside, I guess
11:33.55nealI also saw on the phone no reception
11:34.07nealor rather no network operator displayed
11:34.17DocScrutinizerthat's more like a too low signal
11:35.13DocScrutinizeranyway, define >><neal> How do I best detect when there is no cellular reception?<<
11:35.41DocScrutinizerin my book >>no cellular reception?<< means signal too low
11:36.16nealHere's my revision: how can I detect when the cell phone is no longer connected to a cellular tower.
11:36.20DocScrutinizerif you are interested in a different property of the complex OTA interface of GSM, you need to put different question
11:36.55DocScrutinizerthere's no simple definition of "connected to"
11:37.21DocScrutinizeryou got status "associated to a service cell"
11:37.39DocScrutinizerand you got status "signal is 'good enough'"
11:38.25nealgood point
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11:42.11DocScrutinizeryou got a T3212 timer that makes the MT (phone) renew its association (aka registration, login) every 60..600min, depending on carrier parameters set
11:43.17DocScrutinizeryou got C1,C2 critera (basically a treshold) for MT initiating a handover to a servicing cell with better signal
11:43.25nealDocScrutinizer: Doesn't the phone also listen on the signal channel for pages, etc. and can measure the reception that way?
11:43.39DocScrutinizerit does all the time
11:43.58DocScrutinizerthat's where your signal strength is from
11:44.00nealDocScrutinizer: In that case, I'd suspect that it would know pretty quickly what the link quality is
11:44.11DocScrutinizersure
11:44.19ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/21/microsoft_nokia_definitive_deal/
11:45.33DocScrutinizerneal: that's also a common source of WTF? - the signal strength is a mere metric for downlink. Uplink may be totally different
11:45.36SpeedEvilhttp://www.reghardware.com/2011/04/08/2015_smartphone_forecast/
11:45.43SpeedEvilhahahahahhahahahhahhahahahahhahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahha
11:46.10SpeedEvilhas some reservations as to the above prediction.
11:46.14ruskieHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
11:46.37ruskieof course they are only limiting the perdictions on smartphones
11:46.43ruskieI look at all cell phones
11:47.46SpeedEvilSmartphones are going crashing dwn the price-scale
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11:48.34ruskieI hope that S40 will keep on chugging
11:48.41ruskiefor when the n900 won't be able to anymore
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12:08.28trxanyone arround with custom mapped key (in rx-51)?
12:08.32trxkeys*
12:10.02chem|sttrx: been there done that...
12:10.19chem|stcurrently std map
12:10.57chem|stactualy I customized the xterm buttons to my needs
12:11.18trxchem|st i have noticed that additional keys like eg Shift + Fn + B = "{"
12:11.26trxdo not work on Qt apps
12:11.32Venemo_N900trx: I have a custom keymay, yes
12:11.34trxbut work fine in GTK
12:11.41Venemo_N900it doesn't work well in Qt
12:11.41chem|sthmm
12:11.46trxcan you confirm this?
12:11.50chem|styes
12:11.52Venemo_N900yes
12:11.54chem|stknown issue
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12:12.10trxare there any workarrounds/ fixes for that?
12:12.21Venemo_N900I told this to the Qt guys last year
12:12.33Venemo_N900they say that custom keymaps are not supported.
12:13.18trx:|
12:13.27chem|stbad habbit afair
12:13.31Venemo_N900yep
12:14.05chem|sttrx: you have to use one of the maps known to Qt or it breaks
12:14.26Venemo_N900yeah, or fix Qt...
12:15.04Venemo_N900the guy pointed me to a thousands of lines long cpp file
12:15.13chem|stwhy they did it that way remains mistery as idk WTH would want fixed maps
12:15.32trxthat sucks
12:15.48Venemo_N900they implemented the long-press blue symbols thingy in Qt
12:15.56chem|stqt is another "not an island"
12:16.26Venemo_N900and that probably broke this somehow...
12:16.45jaskaid rather rip out the long-press stuff than use a std map
12:16.59chem|stjaska: i++
12:17.05Venemo_N900I was planning on reverting it and compiling Qt for myself, but haven't had the time yet
12:17.33trxdoes qt even send anything or just ignores those combinations?
12:17.35chem|stI already prepared a foil for a new map....
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12:18.37chem|stbut then I recognized that the kbd backlight isn't strong enough (or the foil not RET 10) and I came along not working keys
12:18.40chem|stBUT
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12:18.59chem|stwhere do you need custom keys apart of xterm anyway?
12:19.12trxin my App, TxPad
12:19.18trxsome users use them
12:19.24chem|stwhat is this for?
12:19.30trxcode editor
12:19.33chem|stah ok
12:19.36jaskaeverywhere i want to input stuff they didnt add, i dont like the popup input methods for special symbols
12:19.40chem|stsure or a code editor...
12:19.47jaska<>{}[] | etc
12:19.52trxi made pop-up button bar with those buttons
12:20.10trxbut it would be nice if it could support custom keys too
12:20.15chem|stback to GTK+ then
12:20.20trxcustom key maps*
12:20.31Venemo_N900chem|st: why do I need custom keys? I need óőúéáűíöü
12:21.16chem|stVenemo_N900: so you need some ´`~ iteration
12:21.25trxwell, i guess they will have to use that bar instead.. (it pops if prox sensor is covered)
12:21.27chem|stthat is borked aswell
12:21.57chem|stthat is something I'd love for mappero
12:22.22chem|stbe fullscreen and turn windowed with buttons on prox-sensor
12:22.32trxbtw, has anyone tried TxPad here?
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12:22.37trxi would love your input
12:22.39Venemo_N900chem|st: nope. I need exactly those accented letters. for my daily communication.
12:23.08chem|stVenemo_N900: I know I mean the button kombination ´ followed by a char
12:23.21chem|stcombination
12:23.36ZogGbtw still no portrait keyboard on n900
12:23.37ZogG<PROTECTED>
12:24.08Venemo_N900chem|st: nope, I'm not interested in the ´ char at all. anyway, I simply just set up a custom keymap. problem is that it is borked in Qt apps
12:24.10chem|stZogG: and no swype and no speech to text, no voice dial...
12:24.29ruskiereally doesn't care about portrait mode... it's a landscape device...
12:24.31ZogGvoice dial? meh
12:24.54chem|stVenemo_N900: if I presse ` and a I get à
12:24.59ZogGchem|st, swype would be nice but at least portrait
12:25.21Venemo_N900chem|st: sure but I have no ´ on my keyboard either.
12:25.23ruskieand no if you do need to operate it one handed then you really shouldn't be using the device in the first place it means you're doing something else as well...
12:25.28ZogGchem|st check if you can get compose key on n900
12:25.32chem|stVenemo_N900: that is what I meant
12:25.51Venemo_N900mhm
12:25.55ZogGruskie it would be nice though, on bus e.g.
12:26.01chem|struskie: smoking, holding a beer, dining a woman
12:26.16ZogGruskie, i found the way to make RDS, but my n900 is dead
12:26.21ruskie:(
12:26.38ZogGVenemo_N900, btw did you play with dbus from C or C++?
12:26.38chem|stor holding the sealing bar in a bus...
12:27.00ruskieZogG, took it to nokia repair yet?
12:27.02Venemo_N900ZogG: yes, I've used QtDBus
12:27.02Venemo_N900it's pretty simple
12:27.16ZogGruskie i never tried it, but as i understand i just need to send to dbus message with song
12:27.34ZogGfound program with src but don't understand all of it
12:27.34ruskiechem|st, so really nothing important where the device is actually required
12:27.55ZogGruskie, no repairs here in israel, waiting for part for manual one
12:28.03ruskieseriously?
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12:28.14ruskieand you contacted the local nokia corporate?
12:28.18chem|stbeer smoke and bus-handle is important we can talk about the wife! ;)
12:28.18ZogGVenemo_N900, ok as i get it back you'll help me
12:28.29ZogGruskie no local nokia here
12:28.39ZogGonly thru other company who represent them
12:28.53ZogGand they said as no n900 officially in your country — no go
12:28.54DocScrutinizersee? Qt is rotten to the bones
12:29.05ruskieZogG, contact the closet nokia corporate
12:29.12chem|stDocScrutinizer: nothing new is it?
12:29.36ZogGruskie ^
12:29.47DocScrutinizeractually the only new thing is some incredibly wise guys want to force us on Qt and thus ruin maemo
12:31.02ZogGDocScrutinizer lol
12:31.35DibblahQT is great - If you're lacking a framework.
12:31.51Dibblahie you need everything from process dispatching to a bubblesort.
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12:32.39DibblahAdmittedly, it does pretty much everything it does poorly - But it does do useful stuff.
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12:36.57Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: this is a maemo-specific qt bug btw.
12:37.16DocScrutinizerI'm allergic to Qt-maemo only
12:37.33DocScrutinizerwell, also to Qt-meego I think
12:37.47DocScrutinizerand to Qtmoko
12:38.02Venemo_N900haha
12:38.24Venemo_N900well, qt-meego should be a lot better. not sure about the moko one.
12:39.23DocScrutinizerwhy should qt-meego be any better? Did the use their chances to mess up the system more thoroughly?
12:40.10Venemo_N900qt4-maemo5 is an overrated hack, made by poorly paid unqualified guys in a rushed timeframe
12:40.39DocScrutinizerexactly what it feels like
12:41.20ruskieso like most of todays software
12:41.21Venemo_N900meego is different because there qt is actually developed and kept up-to-date
12:41.35DocScrutinizer<yawn>
12:41.38DocScrutinizersorry
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12:43.06ruskieNokia's global mobile phone market share significantly fell below 30 per cent for the first time in 10 years during the company's first quarter <-- fun...
12:43.57DocScrutinizerI'm honestly afraid there'll evetually be a PR1.4 maemo meego-mockup hybrid Qt-fsck based "official" release for N900
12:44.07ruskiefun
12:44.24DocScrutinizeraka harmatten
12:44.32DocScrutinizeraka harmattan
12:46.47DocScrutinizerthen everybody going "WTF?!!! nothing works, the device is useless now!" A: <nokia> "wait for next meego update"
12:47.48E0xDocScrutinizer: i hope that tech god dont listen you
12:52.48Venemo_N900lol
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12:54.34DocScrutinizersomebody of council might want to write a blog post "why you should NOT use Qt on maemo"
12:58.25DocScrutinizerwhen that insane maemo-moblin merger got propagated (buzzword "how I learned to love the bomb"), Qt been the denominated golden bridge migration path from maemo to meego. Now we're left behind with a fsckdup Qt on maemo, and a rather unattractive perspective regarding meego at large on mobile phones. So WTF use a borked Qt anyway?
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13:00.16lcukDocScrutinizer, you might be surprised about MeeGo N900 DE - it looks quite classy now and is having many issues ironed out
13:00.32DocScrutinizerI thought CSSU been the path to a sane up to date bugfixed *MAEMO*, not introducing a even more buggy Qt4.7.2 "migration path" BS to a meego that'll never come
13:00.33lcukit has huge improvements in performance over recent months
13:01.07DocScrutinizerlcuk: so how is it ANY better than maemo?
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13:01.50Dibblahlcuk: Does it properly return to landscape after it's rotated now?
13:02.06lcukDibblah, seems to, yeah
13:02.16DibblahIs whatever window / compositing manager functional?
13:02.23DibblahDoes the keyboard work?
13:02.25lcukDocScrutinizer, I can run MeeGo handset builds on my big device
13:02.44Dibblah(I tried the MeeGo sneak peak install. Was not terribly impressed)
13:03.07DibblahPress space - Get [pppppppp until you press another key. Yay?
13:03.22Venemo_N900lol
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13:03.49DibblahRotate to portrait - Back to landscape - Screen is left rotated by a couple of degrees.
13:03.50Venemo_N900well the main problem with the "big merge" is that it isn't a merge at all.
13:04.16Venemo_N900for example, MeeGo kernel doesn't have OMAP power management
13:04.32Venemo_N900I asked, okay, why not apply the Maemo patches?
13:04.34DibblahUsing an xterm, the screen "sometimes" stops updating. All in all... Not impressed.
13:05.37Venemo_N900and the answer was some whining that they can't use maemo kernel because idunno.
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13:07.00Venemo_N900so as I see it, they haven't reused anything from maemo at all
13:07.22Venemo_N900they even re-wrote the desktop from scratch, with no real reason...
13:08.40Venemo_N900anyway, let's just hope that after some time, meego will get it right eventually
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13:10.40Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: have you started to write that daemon yet?
13:12.40DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: sorry, no idea what daemon you're talking bout. but no. And regarding morons that piss me about my allegedly spamming 50% of #maemo with whining about meego, I'm really more inclined to take lessons from crashanddie about BOFH
13:12.54Venemo_N900hehe
13:13.37Venemo_N900I was talking about the daemon which checks for accelerometer readings through some kernel events (instead of polling)
13:14.32DocScrutinizeraaah, you mean a PoC that prints all kevents instead of only those related to e.g udev device add/change
13:14.47crashanddieI'm a BOFH?
13:14.55DocScrutinizersure :-D
13:15.08DocScrutinizermy favourite one
13:15.35Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: nope, only print kevents from the accelerometer
13:16.09DocScrutinizeryou'd inplement that via usual standard unix means like |grep then
13:16.35Venemo_N900problem is, I know nothing about kernel events
13:16.38DocScrutinizeranyway this is just a PoC, as exactly this would have to go into QtMob
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13:17.43DocScrutinizerI.E. QtMob needs to open a NETLNK socket, register with kernel to receive kevents, then filter if the event is relevant for QtMob, and act accordingly
13:17.51DocScrutinizerno need for any daemon
13:18.11Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: right.
13:18.16SpeedEvilBut what puts it onto dbus?
13:18.18SpeedEvil:)
13:18.26SpeedEvilEverything has to go through dbus!
13:18.28DocScrutinizererr now?
13:18.30Venemo_N900no need to expose it in dbus
13:19.04DocScrutinizerumm, for several kevents this is done via ke-recv->hal right now, aiui
13:19.16Venemo_N900anyway DocScrutinizer, if you can give me such a poc, I can make a patch to QtM that uses this approach
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13:19.24DocScrutinizeralas ke-recv doesn't bother about accelerometer kevents
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13:19.54DocScrutinizerKernelEvents-RECeiVe
13:20.12Venemo_N900mhm
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13:21.23DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=libfsoframework/fsoframework/kobjectnotifier.vala;h=b4d6aca64d67e118a58fb11f72aa084b75f50fb5;hb=00c471c86667ad3d86610296a634496d746ec287#l61
13:22.17Venemo_N900are you even sure that the accelerometer events are exposed via kernel events?
13:22.46DocScrutinizeralso compare source of udevadm monitor
13:23.15DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: not really, but I'm sure they *could*
13:23.31Venemo_N900okay, but how?
13:23.42DocScrutinizerif they aren't then it's a bug in lis302.ko that can get fixed at very least in PK
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13:24.01Venemo_N900PK?
13:24.06DocScrutinizerpowerkernel
13:24.14DocScrutinizerI.E on CSSU
13:24.24Venemo_N900mhmm
13:26.34Venemo_N900hm
13:26.48Venemo_N900the code you linked kinda speaks for itself
13:27.10Venemo_N900however, I'm not sure how to filter only the accelerometer the events
13:27.58DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: btw the lis3lv02.ko they use at meego-arm for SURE does NOT support kevents. It not even supports lis302 hw IRQ
13:28.18Venemo_N900mhmm
13:28.30DocScrutinizerso if QtMob is based on meego, then it's obvious why they fail epically on that
13:28.56Venemo_N900mhmm
13:30.04Venemo_N900Venemo: ^
13:32.19DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=tree;f=fsodeviced/src/plugins;h=6f02272ace8192019c39ac46e4c7fe5afd4878d7;hb=00c471c86667ad3d86610296a634496d746ec287
13:33.10Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: what's this btw?
13:33.28Venemo_N900will the same stuff work on n900?
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13:37.40Venemo_N900hmm
13:39.28ZogGhey guys
13:39.43ZogGi look at you and i cry =)))
13:39.44ZogGi want my n900 back
13:39.54DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: it's supposed to work on N900, at least with SHR distro based on FSO
13:40.00Venemo_N900mhm
13:40.30DocScrutinizerSHR/FSO is using OE kernel
13:42.11Venemo_N900OE=?
13:42.46Venemo_N900hm, I need to leave the unviersity, so disconnecting the wifi
13:42.49Venemo_N900will be back later
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13:51.44DocScrutinizerOpenEmbedded
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13:52.50DocScrutinizerso not the "proprietary" Nokia maemo kernel, though I guess for N900 they added quite some of the Nokia patches
13:53.50DocScrutinizerI guess I meant it's a 'normal' kernel, no less normal than meego and maemo one
13:54.27DocScrutinizerthe lis302dl.ko driver might be OpenMoko based
13:55.00DocScrutinizerbut the Nokia driver is nice too, and I'd be surprised if it wouldn't support kevents
13:55.36DocScrutinizerthe meego "upstream" lis3lv02.ko OTOH... :-S
13:55.43DocScrutinizerjoystick driver
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13:58.53Venemo_N900hey DocScrutinizer :)
13:59.19Venemo_N900what language is the code that you linked me in?
13:59.24DocScrutinizervala
13:59.34Venemo_N900hmm
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13:59.45DocScrutinizerrather c'ish
13:59.47Venemo_N900can I do this stuff in c++ too?
13:59.53DocScrutinizersure
14:00.11Venemo_N900I mean, sure I can, but what libs/includes do I need?
14:00.19DocScrutinizerFSO1 even been written in python ;-D
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14:00.51DocScrutinizerFSO2 is a re-implementation in vala
14:01.21DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: /join #openmoko-cdevel, ask mickeyl the author
14:01.31Venemo_N900okay
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14:02.33Venemo_N900btw, didn't you say that om went out of business?
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14:08.02Sazpaimonis it possible to use gcc 4.4 in scratchbox?
14:08.17Venemo_N900I'm not sure
14:08.39SazpaimonI'm trying to build php but it uses a function that's broken in arm gcc 4.2
14:09.56Venemo_N900Sazpaimon: maybe you could compile the newer gcc too?
14:11.14SazpaimonVenemo_N900, wouldn't I need to compile an x86 multiarch gcc for scratchbox to use?
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14:11.33Sazpaimoni dont think i could use a native ARM gcc from within scratchbox
14:11.35Venemo_N900Sazpaimon: i have no idea
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14:32.37MohammadAGhow do I use libraries from a dir instead of those from $PATH?
14:34.44Khertan1smell qt test ... !=
14:35.58E0xMohammadAG: whatevery you are using need have the option of specific lib path
14:37.10fralsLD_LIBRARY_PATH?
14:38.18MohammadAGfrals, still loads Qt 4.7.3
14:38.23MohammadAGneeds to test 4.7.2
14:39.54fralshm, usually works for me
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14:41.06fralssetting RPATH when linking should do it
14:46.19DocScrutinizerok, lis302dl.ko driver of maemo kernel definitely should support kevents on sysfs
14:47.02DocScrutinizerhttp://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c#223
14:47.20DocScrutinizerso no more excuse to use polling
14:48.01Khertan1MohammadAG: any progress in the "qt text selection bug" ?
14:48.05DocScrutinizerexample implementation of how to use kevents there -> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=libfsobasics/fsobasics/kobjectnotifier.vala;h=69b643cba72f89d847a04fed01dada72081ca2dc;hb=06c3855c111dfeb44873a54c2d59cbbfebfc9c54
14:48.19DocScrutinizervala, but meh
14:48.37DocScrutinizersimple enough
14:49.24DocScrutinizerQtMob needs to do same thing on maemo
14:50.05DocScrutinizernext one bashing me with "don't bitch, apply patches to Qt" will get kicked! Definitely!
14:51.01Venemohey DocScrutinizer, you are not bitching currently.
14:51.10VenemoDocScrutinizer, you are now actually making some progress.
14:51.21MohammadAGKhertan, looking into it atm actually
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14:58.00DocScrutinizeralso nota bene this lis302 kernel driver supports kevents, but afaik the one used at meego does NOT
14:58.46VenemoDocScrutinizer, so, let's look at the meego implementation of QtM and let's have a laugh at it too
14:58.56DocScrutinizerit's "upstream" nevertheless, to compensate for that deficit ;-P
14:59.03VenemoxD
14:59.13psychologehello
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15:01.14psychologecrs welcome
15:02.25DocScrutinizerbtw, just in case some meegans lurking - the meego lislv302 driver is here afaik: http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel/blobs/master/drivers/hwmon/lis3lv02d.c#line47
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15:04.23DocScrutinizer59  * The sensor can also generate interrupts (DRDY) but it's pretty pointless...  MUHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA
15:04.56DocScrutinizerit's pretty pointless to give brilliant hardware to fools that have no clue
15:06.17DocScrutinizerohmy, joystick driver, seems I said that before
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15:07.26DocScrutinizersowhat? it's upstream and has lis302 in the name, it MUST be ok for meego
15:09.30DocScrutinizer*sigh* bitching mode again...
15:09.49*** part/#maemo psychologe (~user@117.136.31.187)
15:11.20DocScrutinizerhey I'm only bitching to make you aware about *real* state of meego development, and why it will take looong time until it reaches a productive level regarding power management etc
15:12.11DocScrutinizerthose dudes always tell me "we'll care about that later - first get a working system" THIS WON't FLY
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15:16.55VenemoDocScrutinizer, you made me laugh with these comments.
15:17.05VenemoDocScrutinizer, now I'm curious about the MeeGo version of QtM
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15:22.06Khertan1MohammadAG: i ask because i m still looking where it could be
15:22.19VenemoDocScrutinizer, hmmm...
15:22.47VenemoDocScrutinizer, have you actually read those sources? "it's pretty pointless because they are generated even if the data do not change"
15:22.59VenemoDocScrutinizer, what the hell does this mean? the accelerometer polls itself?
15:23.22DocScrutinizeryeah, this dude wasn't capable to read and UNDERSTAND the lis302dl datasheet
15:24.11Venemocare to enlighten me?
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15:25.49VenemoDocScrutinizer, what is it that he failed to understand?
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15:26.33DocScrutinizer51the whole point of IRQ threshold engines in lis302
15:26.49Venemomhm
15:26.51MohammadAGKhertan1, I built the same source for my PC, but can't figure out how to use the libs
15:28.03DocScrutinizer51Venemo: I frankly admit you have to change thresholds prior to resetting IRQ, or it might fire again immediately
15:28.19DocScrutinizer51(if you're not using highpass)
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15:30.56VenemoI have no idea what highpass is...
15:31.20Venemoanyway, I trust the guys who wrote the N900 kernel on Maemo did their job well
15:33.37Khertan1MohammadAG: how ... i build them in scratchbox and i ve install them in scratchbox
15:33.46Khertan1never try on real desktop
15:33.47JaffaX-Fade: ping
15:34.00DocScrutinizerVenemo: in LIS302 the highpass is a "DC offset filter", a way to get a signal that's 0 if input signal is steady
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15:34.58Venemomhm
15:35.10DocScrutinizerVenemo: yes, the N900 Nokia lis302 driver is rather decent. It only is missing a few capabilities, like enabling highpass via sysfs node
15:35.37VenemoDocScrutinizer, so, what is the frequency at which lis302 sends interrupts?
15:36.05DocScrutinizerVenemo: so if on LIS302 you trigger IRQ in output of highpass !=0 you get a convenient motion detector
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15:37.08DocScrutinizerVenemo: it sends an interupt whenever the IRQ generator sees an event (like highpass out !=0). You (the user) configure the parameters of the events
15:37.48Venemosounds pretty decent
15:37.49DocScrutinizerusually there's no "frequency", an IRQ signals something really happened - I.E the orientation changed
15:38.33Venemowell, currently I'm not talking about orientation, but raw accelerometer data. in that case, what does "something really happened" mean?
15:38.35DocScrutinizeryou got TWO of those engines
15:38.59DocScrutinizernothing. You can read data any time you want
15:39.26DocScrutinizerLIS302 can create a data ready strobe IRQ whenever a new sample is available
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15:39.36DocScrutinizerfor POLL
15:41.24MohammadAGKhertan, ./configure with the same parameters, make, make install
15:42.02DocScrutinizeryou use this operation mode for high data rates (maybe vibration recording, earthquake detectors, whatnot) to avois aliasing between LIS302 internal clock and the driver reading each sample
15:42.14Sazpaimonokay, so it seems the best way I'm going to get gcc 4.4 working is to actually backport it on hardware
15:42.16Venemomhmm
15:42.24DocScrutinizerusually you don't want this mode for mobile devices
15:42.31VenemoDocScrutinizer, so what mode do I want?
15:42.41MohammadAGKhertan1, can't reproduce on my PC either
15:42.46DocScrutinizerevent triggered mode
15:42.47Sazpaimoni downloaded the QT SDK last night, and it seems like it comes with a NAND image for maemo 5 pr 1.3 that boots in qemu
15:42.50Sazpaimoni guess I can use that
15:43.30VenemoDocScrutinizer, and what is considered an "event" in that mode?
15:44.13DocScrutinizerVenemo: enable highpass, set IRQ to fire if any of X' Y' Z' is !=0 (it *changed*), then read out the new absolute values nad reset IRQ
15:44.53VenemoDocScrutinizer, ahh, that makes sense
15:45.06Sazpaimonanyone know about this nand image that comes with the qt sdk? is it basically the stock PR 1.3 image found in the FIASCO image?
15:45.13DocScrutinizeras if ever my posts would make sense ;-P
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15:45.41VenemoDocScrutinizer, however, pieces in puzzle-master should continue drifting even if nothing changes. so at the end, I still end up doing something N times per second.
15:45.45Sazpaimonuname -a reports "Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unkown"
15:45.56Sazpaimon*unknown
15:46.17VenemoSazpaimon, that is no news
15:46.41SazpaimonVenemo, I'm aware, I'm wondering if this is the same nand image found on the fiasco image
15:46.59Venemodunno, I have PK
15:47.06Sazpaimonif so I think this may be better development environment than scratchbox
15:47.08DocScrutinizerVenemo: it's no problem to poll coords of acceleormeter if you're doing anything anyway. It's *BAD* to poll them just for deciding "nothing changed, should have stayed asleep..."
15:47.37VenemoDocScrutinizer, but that's the whole point. QtM doesn't poll and see if it's changed or not.
15:47.47VenemoDocScrutinizer, it polls and sends the results of the poll always.
15:47.50Venemoafaik
15:47.55Venemobut I may be wrong in this.
15:48.29VenemoDocScrutinizer, anyway according to their docs, it should work the way you described
15:48.41DocScrutinizersee, if you have a app waiting for an orientation change, then you don't want your app or QtM poll the g-meter constantly
15:49.33GeneralAntillesΩ
15:49.40GeneralAntillesFecking bad aim.
15:49.49DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: eh?
15:50.12GeneralAntillesCmd-v keeps turning into Opt-v.
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15:53.47DocScrutinizerVenemo: maemo lis302 kernel driver supports kevents on IRQ from lis302 threshold trigger engines. Reading from /sys/*/coords means the raw data is fetched from chip - this is polling, and this is what QtM does based on a QTimer all the time aiui
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15:55.46RST38hThe 20-year-old son of Kaspersky Lab's CEO has reportedly gone missing, with kidnappers said to be demanding 3m for his release!
15:55.55DocScrutinizerVenemo: mce is handling the threshold settings (echo 754 >/sys/*/threshold) and also is listening to kevents afaik, to detect orientation changes. QtM does NOT
15:56.01RST38hwonders if he should laugh satanically at this point
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15:58.09DocScrutinizerVenemo: NB atm the maemo lis302.ko has no way to enable highpass
15:59.33VenemoDocScrutinizer, so, at the end of the day, we would gain nothing even if we changed QtM.
16:00.11DocScrutinizerso mce probably is dynamically adapting the thresholds and trigger config at large, to get next kevent when the device is changed to other than recent orientation
16:00.34Venemomhmm
16:00.47Venemoso, does it still have a point to bother with this?
16:00.51DocScrutinizerno matter what mce does, there MUST not be two concurrent handlers for accelerometer
16:01.16Venemounderstandable.
16:01.25Venemohmm
16:01.36Venemoin the meantime, I was looking at the MeeGo implementation
16:01.40Venemoof QtM
16:01.43DocScrutinizerwell, QtM can still listen(!) to kevents and only read /sys/*/coords if something is happening
16:02.09Venemoit seems to be a lot more robust than the maemo one
16:02.46DocScrutinizerhmm, the lis3lv02.ko of meego definitly is braindead
16:03.19Venemomaybe so, but the QtM of meego is not. or seems not to be
16:03.34DocScrutinizerbut honestly I'm not too much interested in meego (anymore)
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16:04.16DocScrutinizerQtM accelero of meego *can not* work properly, with this kernel driver meego is using
16:04.36DocScrutinizerthat's why we see this filesensor polling shit
16:04.45DocScrutinizerI guess
16:04.50Venemono filesensor polling shit in meego accelerometer implementation
16:04.57DocScrutinizero.O
16:04.58DocScrutinizerwow
16:05.18DocScrutinizerso they leave polling to app level?
16:05.23Venemononono
16:05.39Venemothey use some stuff called "sensord"
16:05.53DocScrutinizerhah, so this one is doing the polling then
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16:07.35VenemoDocScrutinizer, I'm not sure what it's doing, but I see no code for polling
16:07.52Venemoif we could find "accelerometersensor_i.h" and its cpp file, then we could have the answer
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16:08.49Venemogod, it's still not it
16:09.08DocScrutinizerlook at http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel/blobs/master/drivers/hwmon/lis3lv02d.c#line63
16:09.42Venemoyes, you showed it to me already
16:10.36DocScrutinizer>>The values are updated at 40Hz (at the lowest frequency), but as it can be pretty time consuming on some low processor, ***we poll the sensor only at 20Hz...*** enough for the joystick<<
16:10.55Venemoyep, that is what the driver is doing
16:11.17DocScrutinizerexactly
16:11.43DocScrutinizer20 times / second read out coord data from chip, FOR NUTTIN
16:11.57DocScrutinizeryou can't cure that on any higher level
16:12.15Venemoindeed, but I want to find out whether the higher level is any better or not
16:13.11DocScrutinizerit can't as the driver doesn't support any sane (I.E. IRQdriven kevents) concept
16:14.11Venemosure, but I'm wondering if it _would_ be any good if the driver _supported_ it.
16:14.32DocScrutinizerthat's why meego is fsckdup regarding power management. And QtM must be fsckdup as it's basing on that
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16:15.28DocScrutinizerNB this is only one of several dozen peripherals. No idea why meego should be more sane on any of the other ones
16:16.12DocScrutinizerwondering about what QtM COULD be like, if only meego wasn't fsckdup is moot
16:16.41VenemoDocScrutinizer, actually, I think MeeGo's QtM does the right thing.
16:16.53DocScrutinizeri CAN NOT
16:17.21DocScrutinizeraiui the lis3lv02 driver doesn't support kevents or any other sane event driven concept
16:17.28VenemoI understand that
16:17.40Venemohowever, its QtM reads stuff from some socket as far as I see - which is exactly what we want to implement in Maemo's QtM
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16:18.26DocScrutinizerwell, nice if it tries to use kevents on a NETLINK socket
16:18.47DocScrutinizerand it would actually work if only kernel was sane
16:19.19Venemoyeah
16:19.22DocScrutinizermaybe, if they also would care about setiing up lis302 chip trigger engines correctly
16:19.28Venemomhm
16:19.33DocScrutinizerprolly duty of sensord
16:19.48Venemoyepp...
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16:20.04DocScrutinizeranyway all that is meego BS and I gave up on explaining them about it long ago
16:20.04VenemoI still am not 100% sure what sensord does exactly
16:20.31DocScrutinizerso o/
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16:29.07VenemoDocScrutinizer, is there a channel for shr?
16:29.32VenemoDocScrutinizer, I'm curious what DE does shr use
16:29.32DocScrutinizerom-cdevel
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16:29.51Venemoin what manner is shr related to om?
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16:35.36DocScrutinizerSHR is a distro founded on a 'merger' between OM2008 distro and dunno QtMoko?
16:37.17VenemoDocScrutinizer, aaah, so SHR is a continuation of OM
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16:39.22DocScrutinizersomewhat
16:40.25DocScrutinizerFSO has SHR as reference "platform"
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16:41.05DocScrutinizerthough FSO is a platform/distro independent middleware
16:41.23Venemomhm
16:41.32Venemowhy don't they co-operate with the meego project?
16:43.19DocScrutinizermeego wasn't interested
16:44.31DocScrutinizerI asked about using FSO which for sure is the superior alternative to QtM, but the answer was "wait til system is working, then you can supply patches" (SIC!)
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16:45.33Venemomhm
16:45.35Venemovery nice
16:45.37DocScrutinizerofono attributed FSO as "simple stupid AT interface to modem", so meego is using ofono instead FSO
16:46.03DocScrutinizerNIH syndrome, all over the place
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16:48.01VenemoNIH?
16:51.24DocScrutinizer~nih
16:51.24infobotwell, nih is \"Not Invented Here\" - a syndrome often suffered by developers and companies who tend to reinvent the wheel for no reason other than being able to put their name on it.
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17:09.16Venemoah. yeah DocScrutinizer - MeeGo stinks from NIH
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17:13.57Sazpaimonwell i installed the power kernel in the N900 qemu image and that makes it not go into a gui
17:14.01Sazpaimonyay things
17:15.18Sazpaimoni can still access the console though
17:15.22Sazpaimonso whatever
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17:37.42citylightscan anyone pls help me with dbus and python?
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17:40.57citylightsI mean why does mdbus2 com.nokia.profiled is empty?
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17:42.23citylightshow should I print com.nokia.profiled.get_profile
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17:57.38pupnik_battery idle drain is 35-46 mA
17:57.43pupnik_10 times too high
17:58.07pupnik_hildon-desktop maenotify
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18:00.22pupnik_ok maenotify gone
18:00.34pupnik_hildon desktop is where my trojan is eh
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18:06.00MohammadAGcitylights, what do you want to do?
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18:22.43Sazpaimonanyone know how to write a proper NAND image using the mtdblocks of my device
18:22.52Sazpaimondo i just combine all 6 together?
18:25.37DocScrutinizercitylights: you're aware of 'mdbus2 -i' mode, and tab expansion
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18:32.59pupnik_http://www.nerdmeritbadges.com/  merit badges for nerds +++
18:34.11ZogGhttp://funkyimg.com/u2/484/220/fa.jpg
18:34.33derfhttp://www.nerdmeritbadges.com/products/printerhero
18:34.49derfThis has already happened to me once this week.
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18:40.51pupnik_it's funny ad copy
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18:45.02pupnik_http://www.scq.ubc.ca/sciencescouts/the-have-violated-the-posterior-of-an-animal-in-the-name-of-science-badge/
18:53.32pupnik_http://www.theeffectslab.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=116223#116223   (Bert from Sesame Street)
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18:56.45uhsfis it possible to download maps to the n900 and use them without Internet access?
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19:03.06DocScrutinizeryes
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19:03.53uhsfI tried placing map files in ~/.nokia-maps but it doesn't work
19:06.09uhsfI tried a maps package I found with 0-9,a-f directories
19:06.45uhsfdoes it need to be placed in another directory?
19:07.10*** join/#maemo mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735)
19:08.45pupnik_uhsf: don't place large files in your home directory
19:10.31uhsfit's only 13% full
19:11.20uhsfdo you know a page with instructions for maps on n900?
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19:28.03pupnik_uhsf: only what google tells me
19:30.12uhsfi don't know what nokia was thinking when they made the maps application, it's so incredibly crappy, the gps doesn't even work where i live
19:33.48chxmove to a place where the sky is visible.
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19:35.32compengihello, i type alot on virtual keyboard and i encountered a few problems with it when i try to edit some text in it. after i leave the virtual keyboard mode, the text sometimes seems to be messy
19:36.51ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/21/texas_jury_says_google_infringed_linux_patent/ <-- you're joking right???
19:40.42compengii experience something similar to this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42272
19:47.33nox-ruskie, software patents ftl
19:50.08pupnik_nox-: did you log into daimonin yesterday??
19:50.25nox-what?  i dont even know what that is... :)
19:50.33pupnik_ok someone named Nox did
19:50.42nox-ah ok, some game i presume?
19:50.46pupnik_ya
19:50.52nox-yeah was not me
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21:08.46cityLightswhat is wrong with this dbus python script? http://dpaste.com/534495/ it doesnt work
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21:20.23mikki-kunhm, what is the proper dbus command to turn off vibrations on the n900 and reactivate them to the normal settings?
21:21.54mikki-kunpupnik: hm, so around 3 mA is a usual battery drain then for it?
21:22.32pupnikmikki-kun: i get around 5-6 with wifi + ssh and battery monitor
21:22.45ShadowJKWhat are you using for measuring?
21:23.03mikki-kunpupnik: which battery monitor are you using? i am using a script which is called bq2700.sh
21:23.06ShadowJKand, 5-6 is very low. It's equivalent to a week of standby
21:23.11mikki-kunwow, mine get's around 80 mA...
21:23.22mikki-kunwith wifi, but also skype
21:23.28ShadowJKbq27200.sh is my script :)
21:23.31mikki-kunlol, -53 watt XD
21:23.44ShadowJKbut mine doesn't give watts :)
21:23.56mikki-kunmissed the "m" while laughing =p
21:24.17ShadowJKor mwatts :P
21:24.45ShadowJK80 is kinda high for: screen off, wifi, skype
21:24.51ShadowJK80 mA that is
21:25.29pupnikShadowJK: thanks for the script - use it all the time
21:25.33mikki-kunarghs, yeah, amps it is actually, not watts which are given... (both *10^-3 for coorect units)
21:25.48mikki-kunbut now i am getting adfter removing from th charger -50 mA...
21:26.09mikki-kuncool, were do i draw the energy from?
21:26.15ShadowJKFrom the battery
21:26.18mikki-kunmy electrosmog in the room?!
21:26.21kerioskype sucks power
21:26.29ShadowJK- means that battery is discharging. If there is no "-", that means that the battery is getting charged.
21:26.40mikki-kunohhh, ok, then it makes sense x)
21:26.52ShadowJKSo if you want to measure how much power things use, you can't have charger connected
21:26.52mikki-kunbut -60 it is for me without skype :/
21:26.59pupnikwell there's a problem with hildon-desktop (bug known) consuming cpu
21:27.05pupnikthat's my current drain
21:27.35ShadowJKmikki-kun, do you do "./bq27200.sh 5" ?
21:27.55mikki-kunyup
21:28.00ShadowJKok :)
21:28.17mikki-kunman, killing py processes just draws more batt-power as they get restartet...
21:28.19ShadowJKOk, so I'm at -33mA myself, with wifi+skype+irx
21:28.21ShadowJKirc*
21:30.17mikki-kunahhh, for christs sake... i might redo my n900 and just just use selected apps...
21:30.41mikki-kunbeen installing stuff i never used once just to have it once i might need it...
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21:31.30mikki-kunShadowJK: are you using the CSSU?
21:31.52ShadowJKnope
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21:32.15ShadowJKcatorize (or whatever it was called, the thing htat lets you rearrange your menus) is a known battery hog, btw
21:32.24mikki-kuni am using apmefo
21:32.45ShadowJKmight be fixed in cssu actually, not sure
21:32.46mikki-kunand actually it does help me getting faster through my menus
21:33.07mikki-kunohhh and i am using like 2 widgets only and two desktops from which one is empty
21:33.34pupnikwell don't freak out about standby drain
21:33.35mikki-kunso i got down from heavy widget-usage to just two, recaller and the conversations inbox
21:33.40pupnikhehe
21:33.48mikki-kunpupnik: i freak out about the battery drain at my university
21:33.57mikki-kun300 mA is a minimum on their wifi...
21:34.04pupnikwaow!
21:34.22mikki-kunmy poor n900 goes down in no time
21:34.34mikki-kunand i am on powersaving...
21:34.42ShadowJKno power saving support in the wifi access points :)
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21:40.04mikki-kunseems so... they sure need some of that online
21:41.05mikki-kunand they are the ones talking about "energy efficieny"
21:43.52mikki-kunbtw, is there somehow a way i can check which dbus-commands are being transmitted when i switch certain options?
21:44.20BCMMis there a complete list of extra classes in maemo-qt somewhere?
21:44.47BCMM(it's kinda hard to find them by comparing http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.7/classes.html and http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/classes.html by eye)
21:52.42ShadowJKmikki-kun, dbus-monitor
21:53.09mikki-kunShadowJK: hm, is there one already preinstalled?
21:53.13ShadowJKya
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21:54.28BCMMgah
21:54.45mikki-kunhm, do you know a way on how i could call it? :)
21:54.50BCMM"QTextEdit and QPlainTextEdit are fully Maemo 5 style guide compliant. This means that these widgets will not show scrollbars, will not allow the user to select text and will not have kinetic scrolling enabled by default." -- so Qt isn't supposed to be able to do something like the Notes app?
21:55.38mikki-kunno scrollbars? immense phail imho
21:55.43ShadowJKdbus-monitor --session
21:55.46ShadowJKor something
21:55.47ShadowJKlots of output
21:55.50ShadowJKtry --help and -h
21:56.10mikki-kunShadowJK: thanks, so it was for once a pretty straight forward command...
21:56.46mikki-kunomg Ö.ö yeah, lots of output indeed Ö.ö
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21:58.07mikki-kunlol, no -help x)
21:58.58BCMMmikki-kun: it's the lack of selection that bothers me
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21:59.18BCMMthe Notes app (GTK) has kinetic scrolling and finger-selection
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21:59.45mikki-kunwell, they merged with micro$h17 didn't they? their phones don't have c&p as well...
22:07.47mikki-kunmay i ask what you are coding? :)
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22:19.25MohammadAG<BCMM> the Notes app (GTK) has kinetic scrolling and finger-selection
22:19.32MohammadAGsure it has kinetic scrolling?
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22:46.24MohammadAGoh cool, dsme is open
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22:47.59ds3open == source available?
22:48.19MohammadAGhttps://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/dsme/
22:49.12ds3hmmm backport to Mer
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23:05.49BCMMMohammadAG: quite right, i feel stupid now
23:06.12BCMMi'd been quite instinctively scrolling by extending the selection, without even realising it
23:07.43BCMMhow do i get the current user's home directory in Qt? QFile::open doesn't seem to like #
23:07.49BCMMto like ~/ much
23:09.23DocScrutinizergetenv("HOME")
23:09.29BCMMah, QDir::homePath
23:09.37BCMMoh, that too
23:09.45BCMMDocScrutinizer: that uses the environment variable?
23:09.50DocScrutinizersure
23:10.33DocScrutinizerQt for sure has a way more nifty way to do it
23:11.48BCMMQDir::homePath() seems to work
23:12.00BCMMthanks though
23:13.28MohammadAGthere's another method I think
23:14.00BCMMit ought to support ~/
23:14.14BCMMi mean, if you let the user put in a path, and it has a ~/ in it, do you have to fix it yourself?
23:15.45MohammadAGI think there's a method to get ~/ on Linux, C:/Users/user on Windows etc
23:16.31MohammadAGoh that should work nvm
23:17.30nox-getpwnam()?
23:17.49nox-(and then pw_dir)
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23:24.08pupniki so hate not having an escape button
23:24.41Venemopupnik, remap the keyboard and make yourself one
23:24.54pupnikwhat, "Q"
23:24.55pupnik?
23:26.45pupnikgreat idea
23:27.00pupnikyou remove 'q' from all instances of writing and programs on the planet
23:27.10pupnikthen i'll map it to escape
23:27.18DocScrutinizerBCMM: ~ is a shell thing
23:27.37BCMMit's also kinda a unix convention
23:27.44BCMMplenty of GUI apps work right with ~/
23:27.52DocScrutinizerno filesystem has a notion about meaning of ~
23:28.06BCMMtrue
23:28.30MohammadAGI might be wrong but I think ~ works in Qt
23:28.32BCMMbut it's not just a shell thing
23:28.44DocScrutinizeractually ~ is a shortcut for ${HOME}
23:28.56MohammadAGqDebug() << QFile("~/file").exists()
23:29.01DocScrutinizerwhile ~user is even more complex
23:29.06MohammadAGif it works in Qt, that should be true
23:29.11BCMMit's a shell thing and a file manager thing (for any reasonable file manager) and a file-open dialog thing (for any reasonable toolkit), etc.
23:29.31nox-<nox-> getpwnam()? <- ~user
23:31.00DocScrutinizerBCMM: sure a lot of apps try to conform shell behaviour and syntax
23:31.30BCMMQString fileName = "~"; does not work and QString fileName = QDir::homePath(); does, in my application
23:31.32nox-its a useful convention
23:31.41BCMM(it is appended to afterwards)
23:31.42DocScrutinizerbut they could as well use ½ instead of ~
23:32.15nox-haha ½
23:33.20BCMMyes, but they don't. all sensible shells use ~, and so do all sensible GUI apps
23:37.00DocScrutinizeryeah, still it's a shell thing, whatever shell you're using. Might be a file-open requester in Qt or whatever, but it's hardcoded there
23:37.45DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
23:38.29DocScrutinizerand you'll literally get a file named '~' if you open() for rw
23:39.32MohammadAGlet's try that :p
23:39.38nox-yes sure
23:39.48nox-just for user input you should expand ~
23:39.56nox-and ~user too
23:40.26nox-(ok the latter i guess is less important on a phone...)
23:41.43DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> echo bla >\~x
23:41.57DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> ls -l ?x
23:41.59DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 jr users    4 22. Apr 01:40 ~x
23:42.10MohammadAGand you're right
23:43.41DocScrutinizer\ is a shell thing, just like ~
23:44.42nox-yep
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