| 00:00.13 | zakkkkm | plankton theme! |
| 00:00.23 | ShadowJK | 770 WSOD, N800 lose vertical hold, dunno what N810 does :P |
| 00:00.28 | ShadowJK | N900 ejects usb port |
| 00:00.38 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 00:00.40 | mtnbkr | ShadowJK: usually just a lot of I/O errors. (in dmesg that is) I/O error, dev mmcblk1, sector x (x increments) and mmcblk1: error -84 transferring data, sector x (x increments), nr y (y decrements) card status 0x900 |
| 00:00.54 | luke-jr | GAN900: OS X isn't terrible on Windows? |
| 00:01.06 | zakkkkm | on windows? how do you run OSX on windows? |
| 00:01.11 | mtnbkr | luke-jr: whuuuu? |
| 00:01.24 | ShadowJK | hehe, I use the klingon theme on N800 |
| 00:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | mtnbkr: that's definitely borked card or reader |
| 00:01.45 | mtnbkr | DocScrutinizer: I know right. :) |
| 00:02.00 | ShadowJK | mtnbkr, sounds bad, unless sector x*512 is outside the card's size |
| 00:02.11 | DocScrutinizer | mtnbkr: I suggest you do a proper backup, then reflash |
| 00:02.13 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr: parse error. |
| 00:02.18 | zakkkkm | there doesnt seem to be good themes on maemo 5 |
| 00:02.30 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: GOOD point |
| 00:03.05 | mtnbkr | DocScrutinizer: the flash is fine... phone is working, retore is mostly fine just the microsd is NFG |
| 00:03.17 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 00:03.19 | ShadowJK | Yeah, I regulary freak out seeing errors on N810 internal mmc, but that's because I still have the faulty Nokia partition table which defines a partition bigger than the internal mmc size |
| 00:03.21 | DocScrutinizer | understood |
| 00:03.43 | DocScrutinizer | WUUUUT? |
| 00:04.10 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia by default has a fubar'd partition table on eMMC?? |
| 00:04.18 | ShadowJK | On N810, yes :) |
| 00:04.21 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 00:04.29 | ShadowJK | The partition is bigger than the emmc |
| 00:04.35 | DocScrutinizer | now that might explain something |
| 00:04.37 | ShadowJK | It's a well-known bug |
| 00:04.57 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.120.5.86) |
| 00:05.02 | ShadowJK | heh |
| 00:05.04 | DocScrutinizer | dn't you think this could cause reboots |
| 00:05.12 | ShadowJK | Of course |
| 00:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | when swap fails |
| 00:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | e.g |
| 00:05.55 | ShadowJK | In 90% of cases, swap is created early enough that it doesn't spill over |
| 00:05.56 | DocScrutinizer | HELL |
| 00:06.23 | ShadowJK | I only saw errors/warnings when I loaded maps for my trip to germany 2009 :-) |
| 00:07.05 | DocScrutinizer | isn't there a chance to wrap around to start of eMMC? |
| 00:07.08 | ShadowJK | (.de maps were huge) |
| 00:07.35 | ShadowJK | No it doesn't wrap around |
| 00:07.52 | ShadowJK | If it did wrap around, you'd find out soon enough when the partition table is blown away |
| 00:09.01 | DocScrutinizer | mtnbkr: mind to do a dd if=sometext.txt of=/dev/mmcblk1(<<check that! don't use *p1) bs=1024 count=1 ? |
| 00:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | then sync, mount-cycle (backcover), read back and see what it looks like |
| 00:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yeah |
| 00:11.45 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: o/ |
| 00:12.04 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: \o |
| 00:12.40 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: ban cleaning day? |
| 00:12.56 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: as long as it doesn't require any work on my part? :P |
| 00:13.10 | DocScrutinizer | hehe, ok then another time |
| 00:13.20 | *** join/#maemo nid0 (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 00:15.42 | Sazpaimon | so i downloaded QtIrreco |
| 00:15.48 | Sazpaimon | my tv isn't listed |
| 00:15.51 | Sazpaimon | not even the manufaturer |
| 00:17.15 | Arkenoi | and UI is disaster anyways :-( |
| 00:17.16 | zakkkkm | Hey, what is required for irreco to work? |
| 00:17.43 | zakkkkm | does the n900 have builtin IR? |
| 00:17.55 | Robot101 | yes, hilariously |
| 00:18.01 | zakkkkm | really? |
| 00:18.11 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 00:18.13 | nox- | only send tho |
| 00:18.16 | Robot101 | yep just to the right of the camera button |
| 00:18.36 | zakkkkm | so i can fully just use my n900 as a remote control? |
| 00:18.37 | nox- | so you cant use it to `learn' an unknown remote |
| 00:18.37 | Sazpaimon | i take that back |
| 00:18.46 | Sazpaimon | apparently "NOC" isn't the brand of my tv, but actually AOC |
| 00:19.11 | Sazpaimon | http://www.aocmonitorap.com/files/AOC.JPG you can clearly see my confusion |
| 00:19.26 | Sazpaimon | that said, there was only 1 model listed, and it doesnt seem towork |
| 00:20.34 | *** join/#maemo divan (~divan@89.209.253.77) |
| 00:21.31 | luke-jr | zakkkkm: no idea, ask GAN900 |
| 00:22.46 | Sazpaimon | there we go |
| 00:22.49 | Sazpaimon | now it works |
| 00:22.57 | Sazpaimon | god this ui is terrible |
| 00:26.10 | SpeedEvil | It's opensource! You have the power to bitch about the UI, without submitting patches! |
| 00:27.27 | Sazpaimon | and I'm using that power |
| 00:27.38 | Sazpaimon | if i cared at all about qt I'd do something about it |
| 00:28.59 | ShadowJK | decided to give up on qtirreco |
| 00:31.25 | DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: I used the minus-Qt version, it isn't exactly great but works |
| 00:31.44 | Sazpaimon | yeah just downloaded that |
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| 00:33.07 | DocScrutinizer | you can even get my version of what I decided to be a somewhat usable remote UI - lemme check what it's called |
| 00:34.09 | DocScrutinizer | jr32LG3000_1 and _2 |
| 00:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | upper right button is the nifty one |
| 00:36.09 | nox- | hm not a single google hit for jr32LG3000_1 ... |
| 00:36.32 | nox- | or _2 |
| 00:36.51 | Sazpaimon | neither irreco seem to have a - button |
| 00:37.00 | Sazpaimon | how can i acess subchannels this way |
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| 00:39.12 | DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: you need to define your own buttons if the one you need is missing in the remote definition you loaded |
| 00:39.25 | Sazpaimon | i found it |
| 00:39.28 | Sazpaimon | it was called PLUSMINUS |
| 00:39.30 | Sazpaimon | for some reason |
| 00:39.50 | pupnik | puts out tuna for the cat |
| 00:40.22 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: I got a weird error "can't parse reply" on trying to open the remotes download submenu |
| 00:41.28 | nox- | sounds like some notwork/protocol problem? but what do i know... :) |
| 00:42.55 | nox- | only tried to make a remote for the dreambox once, and found it too difficult getting the timing/config right (that i read using an mceusb device with irrecord...) |
| 00:43.15 | nox- | its not a `standard' protocol so it has to be a raw config... |
| 00:46.31 | nox- | (and the `irman' config in the lirc archive was of course useless for sending :) |
| 00:54.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | nox-: it's just the TV submenu that says 'can not parse reply' |
| 00:55.22 | nox- | mh? |
| 00:55.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | specifically the LG and other subsubmenues there |
| 00:55.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | in irreco "download remote" |
| 00:56.04 | nox- | ah yeah i guess it talks to a server that has configs |
| 00:57.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | my LG remote been probably there under TV |
| 00:57.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | LG |
| 00:58.02 | Sazpaimon | i now realize how futile this is |
| 00:58.16 | Sazpaimon | because the N900's ir reciever isnt really that good |
| 00:58.44 | Sazpaimon | it needs to face the tv directly for it to work, which means holding it in a non remote position |
| 00:58.46 | nox- | you mean ir led? it doesnt have a receiver... |
| 00:58.56 | Sazpaimon | yeah |
| 00:58.59 | nox- | ah yeah |
| 00:59.28 | Sazpaimon | its a cool little novelty and i may use it to turn off the tv if i ever cant find the remote |
| 00:59.38 | nox- | :) |
| 01:02.08 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 01:03.09 | ShadowJK | Some people have speculated that you can get more apparent power by adjusting the modulation slightly |
| 01:03.25 | ShadowJK | Not sure if any software expose that ability though. |
| 01:03.27 | nox- | the freqency? yeah that can happen |
| 01:04.25 | *** join/#maemo sleepee (~sleepee@adsl-64-237-137-214.prtc.net) |
| 01:04.34 | nox- | i have not tried that on the n900 yet but in principle its a parameter in the lirc config file |
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| 01:05.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | nox-: I upped it to test/LG |
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| 01:08.00 | nox- | found it |
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| 01:09.01 | Sazpaimon | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71720 |
| 01:09.06 | Sazpaimon | "i will die because i have alot of problems with my mobile" |
| 01:09.10 | Sazpaimon | lol' |
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| 01:09.16 | Sazpaimon | dibs on his phone |
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| 01:09.43 | Jade | lol |
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| 01:09.58 | nox- | ShadowJK, http://winlirc.sourceforge.net/technicaldetails.html |
| 01:10.01 | nox- | `frequency' |
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| 01:11.01 | ShadowJK | I'd envision an UI with common IR frequencies and +- buttons to fine tune |
| 01:11.03 | pupnik_ | Sazpaimon: impressive |
| 01:11.29 | pupnik_ | ahh not native english speaker |
| 01:12.14 | nox- | DocScrutinizer51, nice big buttons :) |
| 01:12.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: nox- I tuned frequency but found it actually doesn't do much for my LG |
| 01:13.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | nox-: the (99) button is best part of it |
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| 01:13.43 | nox- | what does that do? |
| 01:13.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | I find it quite convenient |
| 01:14.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | switch page |
| 01:14.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you got both _1 and _2 |
| 01:14.58 | nox- | aah :) |
| 01:15.33 | nox- | do you also have one to switch back? |
| 01:15.45 | nox- | ah yeah |
| 01:16.17 | nox- | well that looks good, now i'd only have to get my dm7k config working :) |
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| 01:23.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | I think it *looks* rather yuck, with that pink backround and no matching button styles and all |
| 01:23.47 | nox- | yeah but two pages make sense, and easy switching between them too |
| 01:24.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's been just a POC basically |
| 01:28.51 | *** join/#maemo zanberdo (~user@ppp-71-137-109-144.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 01:29.09 | zanberdo | looking for a cli unzip util |
| 01:29.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | A nice feature was to change IP of the controller from hostname localhost to t900 (second device). the same config ran on t900 and so first device called 2nd to emit IR |
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| 01:43.18 | zanberdo | is there an unzip package for n900? |
| 01:44.49 | SpeedEvil | zanberdo: it is called... |
| 01:44.52 | SpeedEvil | unzip |
| 01:45.18 | zanberdo | searching apt w/ all repo enabled did show up |
| 01:45.27 | zanberdo | didnt |
| 01:45.28 | SpeedEvil | Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free unzip 1:6.0-maemo5 [166kB] |
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| 01:52.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | even: unzip-fm - A simple file-manager add-on to unzip files by clicking on them |
| 01:54.23 | SpeedEvil | On a related topic - the 'radio' package is a FM radio that is _much_ faster than the fmradio one. |
| 01:54.45 | ShadowJK | the fmradio thing just pissed me off |
| 01:54.55 | *** join/#maemo zakkkkm_ (~zakkkkm@199.7.156.40) |
| 01:54.57 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 01:55.08 | ShadowJK | whoever designed it achieved their presumed goal of making radio as fucking hard as it possibly can be |
| 01:55.28 | SpeedEvil | It's like a proof-of-concept alpha version. |
| 01:55.32 | ShadowJK | I only /ONCE/ managed to tune it to a station |
| 01:55.52 | ShadowJK | fucking sliding spinning random-o-matic frequency dial |
| 01:57.11 | zakkkkm_ | anyone use rdesktop from the tablet? |
| 01:57.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | I tune it with left/right cursur keys |
| 01:58.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | sucks but at least works |
| 01:58.08 | RST38h | ShadowJK: javispedro will be offended =) |
| 01:58.26 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Or are you talking about that OTHER fm radio package? |
| 01:59.07 | ShadowJK | The one that looks like an analog frequency display, and when you release finger pressure from display, it moves from 99.9 to 99.1 Mhz |
| 01:59.27 | ShadowJK | Dunno who's software that is. |
| 02:00.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | written by Martin _rimme |
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| 02:00.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | Grimme |
| 02:01.10 | zanberdo | hmm must have something miss configured. thanks |
| 02:03.40 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago (~TiagoTiag@unaffiliated/tiagotiago) |
| 02:03.52 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 02:04.33 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@pool-96-250-166-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:04.47 | TiagoTiago | where can i find a tutorial for making an imageset (for wallpaper) avaiable on the repos? |
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| 02:10.48 | zakkkkm_ | http://maemo.nokia.com/images/uploads/entry-media/device-broadband.jpg how do you get that white battery icon? |
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| 02:13.18 | RST38h | with photoshop? |
| 02:13.37 | zakkkkm_ | make own icon pack? |
| 02:17.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: radio is WAY better than fm-radio |
| 02:18.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | automatic preset search YEAH! |
| 02:18.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro should add direct key-in of freq via kbd |
| 02:18.53 | TiagoTiago | That's the one that works even without the headphone plugged, right? |
| 02:19.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | that would make it almost perfect |
| 02:19.02 | nox- | yeah i just tested it too |
| 02:19.16 | nox- | called c fm radio in the app manager iirc |
| 02:20.15 | pupnik | they could just stick with maemo5 and have a great OS |
| 02:20.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | plus three ts buttons: up, down, presets |
| 02:20.54 | pupnik | have any of you looked at palm's OS? |
| 02:20.56 | nox- | pupnik, yeah stupid politics |
| 02:21.00 | TiagoTiago | why do they insist on the external antenna requirement? Is it to obey some FCC rulling or somthing? |
| 02:21.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | nah |
| 02:21.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | nfi |
| 02:22.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | it obviously needs an antenna, but there's no sense in *forcing* it |
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| 02:23.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | I think I should get my hands dirty and work a bit on javispedro's radio |
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| 02:25.44 | ShadowJK | There are no FCC requirements for any receiver, afaik |
| 02:25.51 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It's vanishingly unliekely to work for most people. |
| 02:25.57 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: phonetapping |
| 02:26.18 | ShadowJK | I forgot :-) |
| 02:27.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | eh? |
| 02:27.39 | TiagoTiago | The times i tried it hasn't been hard to get a good signal, seems i was just lucky |
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| 02:40.17 | pupnik | heppy gehman akzent day! |
| 02:40.59 | pupnik | iff yu deed nat know zis, plees sprred it arrount! |
| 02:41.33 | TiagoTiago | Talk like a nazi day? <.< |
| 02:42.11 | pupnik | if you wish zen you need to say 'achtung' a lot alsso |
| 02:42.31 | pupnik | and 'ausweis!' |
| 02:43.48 | ShadowJK | ai dånt nåw vatt ju ah tahkin abaat |
| 02:43.58 | pupnik | :) |
| 02:45.18 | DocScrutinizer | basskontrolle |
| 02:46.02 | nox- | you know a sentence with `gaensefleisch'? :) |
| 02:46.48 | nox- | `gaensefleisch ma n gofferoom oofmache'... |
| 02:47.12 | nox- | (gdr border control back then... :) |
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| 02:52.07 | ShadowJK | saw DDR border control when he was 6 yo or so |
| 02:53.40 | ShadowJK | I thought it was strange that aunt's husband was so fascinated with fences as he was with animals |
| 02:54.21 | ShadowJK | (the telezoom objective came out whenever he went near the border, and whenever he was near moose in .fi) |
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| 02:55.50 | nox- | lens :) |
| 02:55.56 | nox- | not objective |
| 02:56.11 | ShadowJK | ok |
| 02:56.13 | ShadowJK | :-) |
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| 03:10.24 | TiagoTiago | Can someone point me to a tutorial for packaging and posting an wallpaper imageset on the repos please? |
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| 03:17.39 | pupnik | Amazing guitar demo recorded by a friend from Napster back in 2002 - Bach Toccata and Fugue -http://www.mediafire.com/?12nc9kt713ww3b7 |
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| 06:33.01 | climbz | halo maemo |
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| 06:41.52 | keithzg | halo climbz |
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| 07:16.47 | tr4sk | hi :) |
| 07:17.24 | tr4sk | I have a little question for you people. |
| 07:18.04 | tr4sk | I was using kernel-power. and recently I decided to try nitdroid |
| 07:18.31 | robbiethe1st | Yea? |
| 07:18.51 | tr4sk | but now, the kernel power does'nt seem to boot |
| 07:19.47 | tr4sk | I'm stuck with 2.6.28-omap1 |
| 07:19.58 | tr4sk | or nitdroid |
| 07:20.30 | tr4sk | I did'nt find a solution to boot the custom kernel. |
| 07:21.01 | robbiethe1st | Reinstall kernel-power? |
| 07:21.11 | pupnik | hi |
| 07:21.18 | robbiethe1st | "sudo apt-get install --reinstall kernel-power kernel-power-flasher"? |
| 07:22.02 | tr4sk | I already try this. |
| 07:22.09 | tr4sk | hi pupnik |
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| 07:23.07 | tr4sk | robbiethe1st: it's look like the multiboot app does'nt have the custom kernel |
| 07:24.56 | robbiethe1st | IIRC, there's a kernel-power-multiboot package or something |
| 07:24.59 | robbiethe1st | it's a special package |
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| 07:29.42 | tr4sk | robbiethe1st: thx I found it :) |
| 07:31.14 | auenfx4 | weird, still network error with msn pecan |
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| 09:19.37 | pupnik | i have to say i'm a pretty good ui guy |
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| 09:25.30 | MohammadAG | anyone know of a good lyrics API? |
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| 09:33.59 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: same one clementine uses |
| 09:34.44 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: lyrics.wikia.com |
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| 09:34.50 | MohammadAG | looks like Qt Creator for some reason |
| 09:35.23 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: lyricstime.com, lyricsreg.com lyricsmania.com metrolyrics.com azlyrics.com elyrics.net |
| 09:35.36 | MohammadAG | do they all have APIs? |
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| 09:38.46 | MohammadAG | he API only returns a small portion of the lyrics (about 1/7th of them) <- meh |
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| 09:43.05 | jacekowski | well, clementine can pull everything |
| 09:43.51 | MohammadAG | from the first site? |
| 09:44.34 | jacekowski | yes |
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| 09:44.44 | jacekowski | just download clementine source code |
| 09:44.47 | jacekowski | it's in qt as well |
| 09:45.05 | jacekowski | so you can just use method pionieered by c.opy & p.aste |
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| 10:00.22 | njain | hey guys |
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| 10:01.01 | SpeedEvil | There may be girls here too. |
| 10:01.02 | MohammadAG | QTime has a nice timing feature |
| 10:01.06 | MohammadAG | hey njain |
| 10:01.14 | njain | i want to write a script that enables the auto-call-receive in some time |
| 10:01.20 | SpeedEvil | Also horible creatures from the black lagoon. |
| 10:01.26 | njain | if headphones are plugged in |
| 10:01.29 | MohammadAG | MediaPlayer startup took 544 ms |
| 10:01.44 | MohammadAG | yay, UI starts in half a sec |
| 10:01.45 | njain | SpeedEvil: i meant for all... |
| 10:01.59 | MohammadAG | auto-call-receive? |
| 10:02.05 | njain | yeah |
| 10:02.26 | MohammadAG | auto-answer? |
| 10:02.31 | njain | that means if headphones are in, the user has an option to set in time |
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| 10:02.54 | njain | after which the incoming call is automatically received |
| 10:03.06 | njain | MohammadAG: yeah |
| 10:03.16 | MohammadAG | I suck at shell scripting |
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| 10:03.22 | MohammadAG | but it should be easy |
| 10:03.30 | pupnik | MohammadAG: google, cut, paste :D |
| 10:03.37 | njain | i am unable to figure out how to if headphones are plugged in |
| 10:03.43 | njain | the hal manager |
| 10:03.55 | MohammadAG | look at headphoned I guess |
| 10:04.02 | njain | receives the signal deviceadded |
| 10:04.18 | njain | i wrote a two line python code |
| 10:04.21 | SpeedEvil | njain: Can you in fact cause it to answer a call? |
| 10:04.21 | njain | using dbus |
| 10:04.28 | njain | yeah |
| 10:04.35 | njain | thats easy |
| 10:05.11 | MohammadAG | signal sender=:1.10 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5079 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_soc_audio_logicaldev_input; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition |
| 10:05.11 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:05.12 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:05.21 | njain | it means a call is answered, and you don't have to pick out phone from your pocket |
| 10:05.33 | njain | hmm |
| 10:05.38 | njain | i found this |
| 10:05.42 | njain | too |
| 10:06.00 | njain | but null destination object could not be made.. |
| 10:06.18 | MohammadAG | not sure about Python, but I can easily listen to that with QtDBus |
| 10:06.22 | SpeedEvil | njain: I vaguely recall that the button on the headset does this already. |
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| 10:06.49 | njain | with my headphones it doesn't |
| 10:07.08 | njain | anyways i wanna try it out.. |
| 10:07.08 | SpeedEvil | The stock headset? |
| 10:08.07 | MohammadAG | QDBusConnection::systemBus().connect("", "/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_soc_audio_logicaldev_input", "org.freedesktop.Hal.Device", "Condition", QObject, SLOT(someSlot())) |
| 10:08.13 | MohammadAG | is that it would look like with Qt |
| 10:09.45 | MohammadAG | btw, signal sender=:1.10 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5160 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_headphone; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition |
| 10:09.46 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:09.46 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:09.53 | MohammadAG | listening to that would be better I guess |
| 10:10.17 | MohammadAG | only problem is that the same signal is sent on connect and disconnect |
| 10:13.27 | DocScrutinizer | the button on all standard one-button headsets compliant with http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf shall answer calls when pressed |
| 10:14.21 | DocScrutinizer | also end call when pressed a second time |
| 10:14.43 | MohammadAG | does the stock headset follow that? |
| 10:14.47 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 10:14.49 | MohammadAG | (the spec) |
| 10:15.18 | MohammadAG | so qwerty12's headset-control should work on all headsets with one button? |
| 10:15.20 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia explicitly stated that their devices all follow this spec |
| 10:15.43 | DocScrutinizer | that's where I found it |
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| 10:16.46 | DocScrutinizer | seems Nokia is a member of OMTP and contributed or even initiated that spec |
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| 10:19.58 | alterego | Ah, sunday morning tmo trolling |
| 10:19.59 | DocScrutinizer | it's still largely unclear how those multi-button multimedia headsets work, but definitely they seem to be incompatible for the button operation, at least to the way the N900 driver reads out that signal. N95 has a similar hardware to handle headsets and obviously can handle multibutton |
| 10:21.35 | timeless_w7ip | doc: depending on whose headset you're talking about |
| 10:21.40 | timeless_w7ip | they use a proprietary protocol |
| 10:21.50 | timeless_w7ip | which required significant effort toimplement |
| 10:21.54 | timeless_w7ip | s/toi/to i/ |
| 10:22.09 | timeless_w7ip | .. spread across multiple software stack levels |
| 10:22.20 | delphi | DocScrutinizer so they aren't supported on driver level? |
| 10:22.25 | MohammadAG | alterego, you still read that site? |
| 10:22.50 | DocScrutinizer | according to the source appearing somewhere on web Nokia has another linux device that will use a dedicated MCU ASIC to communicate to the MM-headsets |
| 10:23.02 | DocScrutinizer | delphi: seems so |
| 10:23.23 | DocScrutinizer | this source suggests the protocol is rather complex |
| 10:23.38 | timeless_w7ip | further, it wasn't a requirement and the hardware that was shipped was selected because it wasn't unsupported |
| 10:23.48 | timeless_w7ip | (we're practical, not always stupid) |
| 10:23.53 | DocScrutinizer | and probably any kind of serial, and also probably via mic similar to one-button |
| 10:24.15 | timeless_w7ip | obviously we have hardware which didn't work withour device, and obviously it was available in volume since it shipped w/ other devices |
| 10:25.55 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: you lost me on your last 3 posts |
| 10:26.15 | DocScrutinizer | last 2.5 to be precise |
| 10:27.20 | timeless_w7ip | simply put |
| 10:27.26 | timeless_w7ip | there's a reason we shipped the headset we did |
| 10:27.31 | timeless_w7ip | instead of a more complicated one |
| 10:27.38 | timeless_w7ip | we definitely had more complicated headsets availalbe |
| 10:27.41 | DocScrutinizer | sure, but that's never been a topic |
| 10:27.46 | timeless_w7ip | s/lbe/ble/ |
| 10:28.09 | timeless_w7ip | and the reason is that it wasn't practical to implement the necessary bits for the n900 |
| 10:28.24 | robbiethe1st | Oh; that makes sense - So, they just used a simpler headset |
| 10:28.36 | robbiethe1st | Hm... the hardware |
| 10:28.45 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, ok. np. The topic (my topic) is slightly different though |
| 10:28.45 | timeless_w7ip | yeah, we used something that worked |
| 10:28.49 | robbiethe1st | It'd do a better headset with proper driver, right? |
| 10:28.53 | timeless_w7ip | instead of shipping something that wouldn't work |
| 10:29.10 | timeless_w7ip | robbie: the proper driver being split across 3 or more layers |
| 10:29.14 | timeless_w7ip | iirc including kernel |
| 10:29.26 | timeless_w7ip | "it'd do better with better software, it's only software" |
| 10:29.38 | robbiethe1st | Alright. But it's still a software problem, not hardware. |
| 10:29.44 | DocScrutinizer | it's not any question the shipped headset is both crap and standard compliant, as are all phones since ~4 years |
| 10:29.44 | timeless_w7ip | well |
| 10:30.06 | MohammadAG | Retrieving information on the new media files. |
| 10:30.06 | MohammadAG | Estimated time remaining: %s |
| 10:30.17 | MohammadAG | how do I pass an int to that strings? |
| 10:30.19 | timeless_w7ip | my understanding is that doing it in software is hard and that it /might/ be possible to make it easier for the software if there was fancier hardware |
| 10:30.19 | MohammadAG | string* |
| 10:30.32 | timeless_w7ip | mohammadag: by first converting the int to a string |
| 10:30.43 | MohammadAG | that's easy, then? |
| 10:30.46 | DocScrutinizer | it's just the point I dunno what exactly the PHY layer specs are for the MM-headsets, but I'm sure N900 could do as N900 has same hw as N95 |
| 10:30.50 | robbiethe1st | Ah |
| 10:31.01 | MohammadAG | printf? or is there some other Qt equivalent |
| 10:31.09 | timeless_w7ip | mohammadag: there should be a Qt thing for it |
| 10:31.21 | timeless_w7ip | look for Number.ToString or String.FromNumber or ... |
| 10:31.29 | DocScrutinizer | and of course bitbanging a serial 1 wire protocol in sw is tricky |
| 10:31.41 | MohammadAG | QString::fromNumber(), I mean is there something to pass that string to the translatable one |
| 10:31.51 | timeless_w7ip | usre |
| 10:31.55 | timeless_w7ip | s/usre/sure/ |
| 10:32.11 | DocScrutinizer | we been there, done that, for HDQ protocol of gta02 battery bq27000 |
| 10:32.33 | timeless_w7ip | oddly i've actually even used it |
| 10:32.41 | timeless_w7ip | did Qt work for VirtualBox not too long ago |
| 10:33.51 | DocScrutinizer | I gather that's why Nokia EE got requirement specs for a MCU ASIC to handle that protocol on N9AA |
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| 10:35.34 | DocScrutinizer | anyway implementing such shit in sw, as kernel driver, is exactly my domain of expertise |
| 10:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | and I regularly piss of sw devels with layering violations |
| 10:36.22 | DocScrutinizer | but in the end it always works |
| 10:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | I would have started with specifying the sw arch long ago, if somebody would've paid me for a MM-headset and a N95 plus a week's worth rent for a scope |
| 10:39.03 | DocScrutinizer | or - even better - Nokia would've disclosed this protocol specs |
| 10:41.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'd not even be surprised if the basic timing and protocol actually would be like HDQ |
| 10:41.16 | timeless_w7ip | i'm pretty sure i could get you the headset |
| 10:41.25 | timeless_w7ip | but the n95 seems a bit harder to manage |
| 10:41.56 | jacekowski | what are we talking about? |
| 10:42.02 | jacekowski | fancy headsets? |
| 10:42.10 | DocScrutinizer | the headset might suffice when I sacrifice it inder my microscope and screwdrivers |
| 10:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: multibutton headsets |
| 10:42.38 | timeless_w7ip | doc: which country are you in? |
| 10:42.42 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: multibutton headsetsd |
| 10:42.42 | jacekowski | i have 3 buttons on my headset |
| 10:42.46 | DocScrutinizer | D |
| 10:42.53 | jacekowski | never tried them |
| 10:43.07 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you got a scope? |
| 10:43.14 | jacekowski | 3 |
| 10:43.16 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 10:43.18 | DocScrutinizer | storage? |
| 10:43.26 | jacekowski | and analogue |
| 10:43.32 | DocScrutinizer | cool, |
| 10:43.52 | DocScrutinizer | N95 / any other Nokia capable of working with MB-hs? |
| 10:44.23 | MohammadAG | all new Nokias have it btw |
| 10:44.25 | DocScrutinizer | maybe even borrow? |
| 10:44.30 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 10:44.35 | DocScrutinizer | I gues they do |
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| 10:44.51 | jacekowski | N95 |
| 10:45.05 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: I could use the headset when trying to implement the protocol on N900 |
| 10:45.18 | jacekowski | but then i have no way of connecting it all together |
| 10:45.25 | timeless_w7ip | doc: what country are you in? |
| 10:45.29 | jacekowski | timeless_w7ip: germany |
| 10:45.34 | timeless_w7ip | (this affects shipping and point of origin costs) |
| 10:45.43 | jacekowski | i would have to get 4 pin plug and 4 pin socket |
| 10:45.47 | timeless_w7ip | ponders |
| 10:45.48 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: could you wiretap the mic and L|R on 2 chan and record what'S going on when pressing a button? |
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| 10:46.01 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: D |
| 10:46.02 | timeless_w7ip | i think we could probably arrange for one to be sent from germany to an address in german |
| 10:46.07 | timeless_w7ip | Denmark? |
| 10:46.16 | MohammadAG | DE I guess |
| 10:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | Deutschlant |
| 10:46.30 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: t? |
| 10:46.31 | DocScrutinizer | .de |
| 10:46.33 | MohammadAG | fancy word for Germany? |
| 10:46.34 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 10:46.34 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: not d? |
| 10:46.41 | timeless_w7ip | when people ask me where i'm from, i don't say 'u' = 'uae' |
| 10:46.43 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, have you got an idea how to connect scope to that headset |
| 10:46.54 | DocScrutinizer | adapter |
| 10:47.04 | jacekowski | i don't have one |
| 10:47.11 | DocScrutinizer | 3.5/4 male<->female |
| 10:47.23 | DocScrutinizer | I'll happily solder ne and send to you |
| 10:47.32 | jacekowski | i can solder one myself |
| 10:47.39 | jacekowski | it's just matter of getting parts |
| 10:47.52 | jacekowski | and i don't think 4 pin plugs/sockets are readily avaliable |
| 10:48.03 | DocScrutinizer | insert 2R resistors in each wire, so you also can probe current |
| 10:48.26 | DocScrutinizer | and distinguish pull-to-gnd by hs from by device |
| 10:48.44 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: they are, no problem |
| 10:49.14 | jacekowski | link |
| 10:49.18 | DocScrutinizer | even Conrad has them |
| 10:49.19 | MohammadAG | I wonder if the N97 mini and the N95 headsets differ |
| 10:49.22 | DocScrutinizer | mompls |
| 10:50.04 | MohammadAG | the N95 has a two part headset, one of them is the headphones (normal 3.5mm plug), the other is the buttons |
| 10:50.17 | trx | i have one that came with my 5800, the cable can easily be disconected from the board |
| 10:50.23 | trx | so no need for adapters |
| 10:50.26 | jacekowski | farnell has some |
| 10:50.33 | MohammadAG | the N97 mini's headset is like the N900's, but with 3 buttons (or 5) instead of one |
| 10:51.03 | MohammadAG | http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/107973_music1.jpg |
| 10:51.10 | MohammadAG | all new Nokias have that instead of the N95's |
| 10:51.24 | MohammadAG | checks the N8 packagge |
| 10:51.26 | MohammadAG | -g |
| 10:52.16 | kwtm | Hi. Looking for text-based browser for N900. I see we have lynx. Do we also have elinks? (I see it's available for Diablo but I didn't find it for Fremantle.) Do we also have links2? |
| 10:52.19 | timeless_w7ip | n8 has call, volume +/-, next, play-pause, previous |
| 10:52.22 | jacekowski | ohm |
| 10:52.25 | jacekowski | maplin has them |
| 10:52.40 | timeless_w7ip | i'd call that 6 buttons |
| 10:52.46 | timeless_w7ip | but counting the +/- may be hard |
| 10:53.00 | jacekowski | i'll be back later |
| 10:53.02 | jacekowski | going to maplin |
| 10:54.46 | MohammadAG | <timeless_w7ip> i'd call that 6 buttons |
| 10:54.51 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/730223/ female |
| 10:54.54 | MohammadAG | play/pause are the same button |
| 10:55.51 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/730208/ male |
| 10:56.04 | DocScrutinizer | nicely goldplated |
| 10:57.07 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ^^^ |
| 10:59.11 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: make that 10R, not 2R |
| 10:59.52 | *** join/#maemo divan (~divan@212.90.177.150) |
| 11:00.22 | DocScrutinizer | 3 of them: mic, L, R. Six testpoints, 3 "before" the Rs, 3 at headset side "after" the Rs |
| 11:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | duh, plus GND of course =7 |
| 11:02.30 | trx | 5800XM one has Prev, Next, Stop, Play/Pause, Vol+, Vol-, Answer and the lock switch |
| 11:03.44 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-45-121.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 11:04.11 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't matter. 2 and 55 buttons all will be handled and signalled same way, serial over analog, probably via mic pin (maybe with clock on L/R - but I seriously doubt that) |
| 11:04.31 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) |
| 11:04.46 | trx | i could get an access to a scope |
| 11:04.52 | trx | the thing is, i never used one |
| 11:05.17 | DocScrutinizer | either they "morse" the data by "ultrafast pressing" of the one-button short-to-gnd thing |
| 11:05.29 | DocScrutinizer | trx: then it's useless |
| 11:05.38 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 11:05.45 | jacekowski | if i have volume + answer buton |
| 11:05.47 | jacekowski | will that do? |
| 11:05.59 | DocScrutinizer | or they use some kind of "carrier" to transmit the serial data |
| 11:06.16 | jacekowski | or that doesn't have enough buttons? |
| 11:06.25 | jacekowski | and hmm, that's a pain |
| 11:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | if it doesn't work with N900 but does with N95 then it will be sufficient |
| 11:07.07 | jacekowski | i either have 2 channel with nice interface to pc or 4 channels with slow rs232 interface to pc ( and i don't have correct cable with me anyways ) |
| 11:07.25 | jacekowski | but well |
| 11:07.26 | DocScrutinizer | we prolly don't need >2 chan |
| 11:07.31 | jacekowski | first i have to get plugs |
| 11:07.53 | MohammadAG | I thought you went to maplin |
| 11:08.02 | jacekowski | not yet |
| 11:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | I'm rather sure mic wire is all we need to probe |
| 11:08.43 | DocScrutinizer | see my comment above, I guess it's some flavour of HDQ protocol |
| 11:09.05 | trx | can't we just "listen" to the crap coming into the n900? |
| 11:09.12 | jacekowski | trx: how? |
| 11:09.13 | DocScrutinizer | you can read about HDQ in bq27000 datasheet |
| 11:09.21 | jacekowski | trx: with a scope |
| 11:09.29 | jacekowski | trx: how to connect scope? |
| 11:09.30 | DocScrutinizer | trx: I tried that, to no success |
| 11:09.35 | jacekowski | trx: you need plugs and stuff |
| 11:09.45 | trx | you open the headset |
| 11:09.56 | jacekowski | then you break it |
| 11:09.56 | trx | and disconnect the wires you need |
| 11:10.03 | jacekowski | and i don't want to break my only headset |
| 11:10.05 | *** join/#maemo njain (~user@122.176.162.193) |
| 11:10.12 | trx | anyways |
| 11:10.15 | trx | i didnt mean that |
| 11:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | trx: when you disconnect wires, then nothing will work |
| 11:10.41 | trx | i mean connect the scope directly |
| 11:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | you need to probe a working set |
| 11:10.55 | jacekowski | hmm, simplest way to check if headset is working is calling my phone and pressing button |
| 11:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | we'll use an extension cable for that |
| 11:12.07 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: pressing vol+/- while listening to music, and see if you can level down at hs and level back up at phone - makes sure the vol+/- is transmitted to phone |
| 11:12.26 | trx | you tried connecting the headset to the n900 and listening if anything "comes up"? |
| 11:12.33 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 11:12.40 | trx | how are we to listen when we figure out the signals? |
| 11:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | recorded from headset |
| 11:13.31 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 11:13.35 | jacekowski | nothing happens |
| 11:13.40 | DocScrutinizer | also probed headset with R-meter and found it does nuttin while pressing keys |
| 11:13.41 | trx | what i mean is, we would need a driver anyway |
| 11:14.00 | DocScrutinizer | that's what we are about to investigate |
| 11:14.07 | *** join/#maemo sezuan (bouncer@irc.scheff32.de) |
| 11:14.09 | trx | yeah |
| 11:15.25 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 11:15.31 | MohammadAG | then after a driver you need to "wire" the policy crap correctly |
| 11:15.42 | DocScrutinizer | hypothesis: headset needs power, so micbias will be on. micbias delivered from N95 will be within specs for 'normal' hs, i.e. 2..3V@2kR |
| 11:15.51 | MohammadAG | actually, no, it detects it has a headset |
| 11:16.03 | MohammadAG | as* |
| 11:16.04 | timeless_w7ip | mohammad: yes, play-pause is one, but vol+ and vol- are two, and call is a button.... i don't see how you can have trouble w/ my math |
| 11:16.12 | DocScrutinizer | N95 won't poll, that means first pulse comes from headset when pressing button |
| 11:16.44 | jacekowski | well i suppose power is same in both cases |
| 11:16.50 | jacekowski | it's just signaling that's different |
| 11:16.58 | jacekowski | otherwise they would risk blowing up something |
| 11:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | vague hypothesis: N95 will ACK this first pulse, then start applying clock to read out further data |
| 11:17.36 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: exactly |
| 11:17.56 | timeless_w7ip | loves it when people don't believe/listen |
| 11:18.03 | DocScrutinizer | that's been part2 of my first hypothesis post above |
| 11:18.18 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: ? |
| 11:18.33 | kwtm | Is there a way to read winmail.dat (TNEF-format) attachments sent by Microsoft Outlook? |
| 11:18.48 | timeless_w7ip | kwtn: google? |
| 11:19.00 | jacekowski | kwtm: yes |
| 11:19.13 | jacekowski | kwtm: there are programs that can extract tnef |
| 11:19.22 | kwtm | jacekowski: Great! There is hope! Which maemo package keyword should I look for? |
| 11:19.26 | DocScrutinizer | tinneff? |
| 11:19.37 | jacekowski | kwtm: don't remember |
| 11:20.12 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, the wife uses Blackberry with her company mSEXchange server, and doesn't understand why I can't see the 20 PDF's embedded inside the giant winmail.dat file. :( |
| 11:20.39 | DocScrutinizer | mpffff |
| 11:21.22 | kwtm | jacekowski: As far as you remember, is this a stand-alone cmd-line thing to extract from a saved winmail.dat, or is it something that integrates into the built-in email reader? |
| 11:21.23 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, NFC |
| 11:21.26 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 11:21.33 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@64.250.117.22) |
| 11:23.52 | jacekowski | kwtm: standalone commandline thing |
| 11:23.53 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if it wasn't saner to teach that crackberry/sexch crap to use IETF RFC formats rather than try to cope with proprietary tinnef |
| 11:24.24 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.121.77.4) |
| 11:25.54 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.149.238) |
| 11:26.08 | DocScrutinizer | next step: teach modest to read account details out of a copied M$ registry binary file |
| 11:26.22 | DocScrutinizer | shudders |
| 11:26.53 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 11:28.14 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 11:28.33 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I'm trying to see if my MicroSD is really fried |
| 11:28.39 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@bch66-2-88-164-78-176.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:28.39 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 11:28.44 | MohammadAG | [11498.794831] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card <-- on PC |
| 11:28.50 | DocScrutinizer | now you also fried your SD? |
| 11:28.52 | MohammadAG | on an N86 it causes a kernel panic |
| 11:29.00 | MohammadAG | nah, it fried itself 3 months ago |
| 11:29.06 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 11:29.35 | DocScrutinizer | yeah those errors look like solidly fried and welldone |
| 11:29.52 | MohammadAG | I like how the N86 just crashes |
| 11:29.59 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 11:30.01 | MohammadAG | it can't respond to anything, it doesn't even boot up when the card's in |
| 11:30.23 | DocScrutinizer | wonders of sybian |
| 11:30.30 | MohammadAG | I blame MeeGo, I used that card for testing! |
| 11:30.50 | DocScrutinizer | umm, quite possible. There's been a ticket iirc |
| 11:30.57 | MohammadAG | now where do I get some sulphuric acid... |
| 11:31.05 | SpeedEvil | has a barrel of 94% |
| 11:31.14 | DocScrutinizer | car battery |
| 11:31.15 | SpeedEvil | 'It seemed like a good idea at the time' |
| 11:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 11:31.30 | SpeedEvil | should not be left alone with a credit card. |
| 11:31.42 | DocScrutinizer | probably mad useful for killing weed |
| 11:31.48 | SpeedEvil | Or plating stuff. |
| 11:32.11 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: are you still unemployed? |
| 11:32.14 | SpeedEvil | I was intending to use it for large-scale plating/electrodeposition experiemntes for regenerative rocket engine nozzles and combustionchambers. |
| 11:32.19 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Unfortunately, yes. |
| 11:32.42 | MohammadAG | on N900: [70157.500122] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card |
| 11:32.48 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you ARE a geek |
| 11:32.56 | MohammadAG | hmm, /me tries it on the PS3 for the lulz |
| 11:34.41 | DocScrutinizer | envisions SpeedEvil standing at the side of a small steaming stinking pool in his garden and watching the leafs fall off the trees nearby |
| 11:34.42 | kwtm | Thx for info about winmail.dat. Unrelated question: I have installed lynx from extras-devel, but some help files seem to be missing. In particular, "dpkg -L lynx" shows that files like "/usr/share/doc/lynx/lynx_help/leystrokes/cookie_help.html" (for example) were (supposed to be) installed, but the entire /usr/share/doc/lynx directory is missing. How can I get the maemo.org web site to list what's actually in the lynx package to |
| 11:34.44 | kwtm | see if the files are in the ".deb" file in the first place? |
| 11:35.57 | DocScrutinizer | That's actually sth I wondered myself yesterday |
| 11:37.31 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: (still unemployed) are you asking for hints about what you're facing? |
| 11:37.42 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: the n900 has limited storage |
| 11:37.46 | timeless_w7ip | so it uses "docpurge" |
| 11:37.52 | timeless_w7ip | which suppresses /usr/share/doc |
| 11:37.56 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Hmm. I guess that's an indication I might not be able to have that question answered. Ok, well, I think I'll install Lynx on my desktop and then rsync the files over to the N900. |
| 11:38.03 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, what a crap |
| 11:38.05 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Oh, crumm. Is that why man pages are non-existent? |
| 11:38.11 | timeless_w7ip | yes |
| 11:38.12 | DocScrutinizer | (docpurge) |
| 11:38.52 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: mompls |
| 11:39.08 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Is this "docpurge" thing something that automatically happens each time I install a package, or the packages just come this way? Geez, 32GB storage --you'd think they could include a few man pages. :P |
| 11:39.12 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# man lynx |
| 11:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | No manual entry for lynx |
| 11:39.20 | DocScrutinizer | frowns |
| 11:39.24 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Sorry ... "mompls"? |
| 11:39.32 | DocScrutinizer | moment please |
| 11:39.44 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: err |
| 11:39.45 | timeless_w7ip | no |
| 11:39.54 | timeless_w7ip | there's 32gb of space for *user* storage |
| 11:39.58 | timeless_w7ip | there's um |
| 11:40.12 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (~alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 11:40.19 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: mandb-n900 pkg |
| 11:40.44 | kwtm | Oh, that's what it stands for. ... yeah, most of the time I can do without man pages since I can always look them up on the web ... with lynx ... if only I could navigate it properly with the proper keystrokes ... if I had the FRIKKKN keystrokes help file!!! :( |
| 11:41.14 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: don'tlisten to those youngsters that never had a linux box with a 80MB(sic!) HDD and complete manpages |
| 11:41.48 | timeless_w7ip | doc: some of us used hdds w/ <40mb of space |
| 11:42.01 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Yeah, I never figured out the distinction ... and I never understood why people wanted it formatted for some retarded DOS filesystem that doesn't even support symlinks. Someday when I get half a moment I'm going to reformat for ... what does the rest of the N900 use, ext3 or ReiserFS? |
| 11:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | too, not for linux though |
| 11:42.10 | timeless_w7ip | right |
| 11:42.26 | *** join/#maemo arcol (~lama@dsl5402AF44.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 11:42.32 | arcol | hi |
| 11:42.32 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: you don't care about being able to use your n900 w/ a second computer? |
| 11:42.33 | DocScrutinizer | ext3 |
| 11:42.35 | kwtm | My first working Linux was BasicLinux with 20MB hard drive. |
| 11:42.53 | timeless_w7ip | most *humans* like being able to plug their phones into a desktop or laptop and copy songs or stuff across |
| 11:43.09 | timeless_w7ip | for this to work you need to either support MTP which some hackers curse |
| 11:43.16 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Not with a computer that requires MicroS**t compatible system. I use my N900 with a second computer by SSH'ing into the N900. :) |
| 11:43.17 | timeless_w7ip | or something like FAT which some hackers also curse |
| 11:43.26 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 11:43.28 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 11:43.34 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: you aren't a human |
| 11:43.39 | DocScrutinizer | about changing size of partitons |
| 11:43.47 | timeless_w7ip | and thus are not relevant to design decisions |
| 11:43.54 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Yeah, that's what I'm told. |
| 11:44.19 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: do you honestly think the average person uses ssh? |
| 11:44.33 | timeless_w7ip | you're welcome to fsck up your n900 as much as you like once you buy it |
| 11:44.38 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip, do YOU think the average person uses a N900? :) |
| 11:44.49 | timeless_w7ip | but nokia's goal in designing the n900 was to sell the n900 to as many people as possible |
| 11:44.51 | pupnik | there's a n online game with like 50k people that has an SDL client unported btw |
| 11:44.56 | timeless_w7ip | and oddly enough it did an incredibly good job |
| 11:45.02 | timeless_w7ip | for a product it wasn't really trying to sell at all |
| 11:45.13 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Do you recommend resizing partitions more than changing the entire ~/MyDocs to ext3? (or whatever it uses...) |
| 11:45.31 | DocScrutinizer | that's been the fundamental flaw in N900 concept |
| 11:45.44 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Yeah, never quite figured out what Nokia wanted to do with the N900 until recently when Elop said, "Hey, let's have intercourse with Micros**t!" |
| 11:45.52 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: some apps need that vfat it seems |
| 11:45.57 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: please don't curse here |
| 11:46.06 | timeless_w7ip | if you want to curse, go elsewhere |
| 11:46.13 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Sorry, ** = "of". Did you think I meant anything else? :) |
| 11:46.16 | timeless_w7ip | please note that the n900 design decisions were made roughly 3 years ago |
| 11:46.29 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: i think you're being an a**hole |
| 11:46.35 | timeless_w7ip | ** = lt |
| 11:46.38 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: What's a aofhole? |
| 11:46.50 | kwtm | Ok, point taken with the asterisks,. |
| 11:47.08 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Ahh... so I really do need the vfat partition, then ... |
| 11:47.08 | timeless_w7ip | elop joined nokia <1 year ago |
| 11:47.22 | timeless_w7ip | so any design decisions made for the n900 happened >2 years before he joined |
| 11:47.29 | timeless_w7ip | and blaming him for them is absolutely *insane* |
| 11:47.34 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: suggestion is to keep like 1GB, maybe 500M |
| 11:47.40 | timeless_w7ip | please don't try to sound stupid, it's incredibly easy but will not win you any respect |
| 11:47.57 | timeless_w7ip | compatibility with other devices is a general goal |
| 11:48.04 | timeless_w7ip | it makes it easier for sales clerks to sell products |
| 11:48.19 | timeless_w7ip | and it reduces returns stemming from "this doesn't work with my x" |
| 11:48.29 | timeless_w7ip | both of which are important when you're in the business of selling hardware |
| 11:48.42 | timeless_w7ip | as for whether average people use n900s, i've seen more n900s than i expected |
| 11:48.46 | timeless_w7ip | and we sold more than we expected |
| 11:48.56 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: the general product requirement specs of N900 to comply with M$ lusers been a major fault |
| 11:49.15 | timeless_w7ip | and they're definitely used by people who use normal computers |
| 11:49.25 | timeless_w7ip | including apple macintoshes and windows |
| 11:49.25 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, like me |
| 11:49.34 | timeless_w7ip | doc: not really |
| 11:49.46 | timeless_w7ip | the size balance was a marketing decision |
| 11:49.56 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 11:50.06 | timeless_w7ip | optification design was an engineering flaw unrelated to the fat partition choice or the partition size |
| 11:50.32 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: anyway |
| 11:50.40 | timeless_w7ip | your device has 256mb of core storage |
| 11:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia UX dudes failed epically on adapting maemo to windows paradigms and lusers' expectations, and they spoiled quite some bits for the linux nerds |
| 11:50.51 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Your repartitioning web page seems to say that I have to re-aptgetinstall everything after I repartition and then reflash? |
| 11:51.08 | timeless_w7ip | well over half of that is in use when we ship the device |
| 11:51.34 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: it's the most simple 1 cmdline tweak to partition size, done prior to flashing |
| 11:51.35 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Just to clarify: I was not blaming Elop, just saying that Nokia's direction was not clear until he joined. |
| 11:51.49 | DocScrutinizer | there are other ways but they are way more complicated |
| 11:51.54 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: well |
| 11:52.04 | timeless_w7ip | the reason it wasn't clear is because it didn't have one |
| 11:52.14 | timeless_w7ip | your statement implied it had a secret one |
| 11:52.16 | timeless_w7ip | which is false |
| 11:52.31 | timeless_w7ip | and there's an incredibly significant difference between having a secret agenda |
| 11:52.34 | timeless_w7ip | and not having an agenda at all |
| 11:52.44 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.121.77.4) |
| 11:52.49 | kwtm | I probably deserve to seem stupid but didn't want to seem *that* stupid. I just didn't realize that Nokia's poor decisions had such a deep-seated cause until Elop brought to light how bad things were internally at Nokia. |
| 11:52.50 | timeless_w7ip | elop did not "unveil a secret plan from 5 years ago" |
| 11:53.21 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: ok, just in the future, please be *much* more careful with your choice of words |
| 11:53.27 | timeless_w7ip | words are incredibly powerflu |
| 11:53.33 | timeless_w7ip | 477M /usr/share/ |
| 11:53.41 | timeless_w7ip | is a size from a random linux box i'm using right now |
| 11:53.54 | timeless_w7ip | keep in mind that the file system for the n900 is only 256mb large and needs to host an os |
| 11:54.06 | timeless_w7ip | app devs have a tendency to stick lots of crap in /usr/share |
| 11:54.06 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: get a cup of coffee and a cig |
| 11:54.13 | timeless_w7ip | which 99% of the population never touch |
| 11:54.25 | *** join/#maemo steve___ (~steve___@unaffiliated/steve/x-19302814903) |
| 11:54.30 | timeless_w7ip | err, sorry |
| 11:54.37 | timeless_w7ip | 94M /usr/share/doc/ |
| 11:54.50 | timeless_w7ip | but still, if we allocated 100mb for /usr/share/doc/ |
| 11:54.53 | pupnik | a smaller root filesystem saves battery, yes? |
| 11:54.54 | timeless_w7ip | there wouldn't be any space for apps |
| 11:55.02 | timeless_w7ip | pupnik: saves on cost |
| 11:55.05 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: how that? |
| 11:55.12 | timeless_w7ip | the flash used for the root file system is faster and smaller |
| 11:55.28 | timeless_w7ip | buying more flash in that form costs more |
| 11:55.32 | DocScrutinizer | marginally faster |
| 11:55.37 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: dunno, smaller emmc device costing less energy? |
| 11:55.47 | timeless_w7ip | pupnik: we're not talking about emmc |
| 11:55.50 | timeless_w7ip | this is about rootfs |
| 11:55.54 | timeless_w7ip | a different flash module |
| 11:55.59 | pupnik | oh what's it called? |
| 11:56.09 | timeless_w7ip | nand flash i suppose |
| 11:56.10 | timeless_w7ip | shrugs |
| 11:56.19 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: how does that help when we got a 32gb emmc anyway, and btw root is on NAND, not emmc |
| 11:56.25 | timeless_w7ip | the problem is that they're both 'flash memory' and you can flash 'both' of htem |
| 11:56.28 | timeless_w7ip | s/htem/them/ |
| 11:56.31 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: your replacement for apt-get: that is intended to do the usual apt-get plus record the installations in a log file? Is that necessary for me to change the partition size? It is not clear to me what that does which "dpkg --get-selections >WhatIHaveInstalled.log" doesn't do. |
| 11:57.02 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: do emmc / nand devices sleep? |
| 11:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: no that's unrelated |
| 11:57.36 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: not exactly |
| 11:57.41 | timeless_w7ip | pupnik: the choice of 30gb (?) for user data was mostly marketing again |
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| 11:57.56 | timeless_w7ip | it sounds better and makes sufficient sense for the vast majority of users |
| 11:58.05 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Also: if I grasp this correctly, by changing a line in vanilla.bin, I can change the size of /home when I reflash. So this is the vanilla.bin that is on my desktop before I flash it onto the N900, correct? |
| 11:58.10 | timeless_w7ip | you're unlikely to manage to install 2gb of apps |
| 11:58.20 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: only the first box is about partitioning |
| 11:58.31 | timeless_w7ip | (ignore the fact that there's a marketing allocation of 3/4gb for swap for another marketing item) |
| 11:58.43 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: correct |
| 11:59.35 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: to answer your next question: the rest of eMMC will get used for vfat |
| 11:59.37 | timeless_w7ip | pupnik: sizes are basically tunables |
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| 11:59.39 | kwtm | Oh! I didn't realize it was that easy. Ok, will probably do that sometime this week (I'm tuning/purging my laptop/desktop these next few days so will probably keep my N900 as is until everything on the desktop is shown to be working again.) |
| 11:59.51 | timeless_w7ip | picking defaults is hard |
| 12:00.11 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Oh! I didn't realize I had a next question, but now that you mention it, I suddenly have this urge to ask ... How does it know how much I want for vfat? --Oh! You answered it already. :) |
| 12:00.14 | timeless_w7ip | but you often turn to marketing which makes a call based on what it thinks makes sense unless you can come up w/ a better reason not to |
| 12:00.25 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: if you want to take pictures |
| 12:00.30 | timeless_w7ip | or worse.. movies |
| 12:00.37 | timeless_w7ip | you want space for them |
| 12:00.51 | timeless_w7ip | (yes, the camera is among the thinks which is picky about having a fat volume) |
| 12:01.13 | timeless_w7ip | part of the reason for that is that it wants to know when the place where it's trying to save isn't available because it's exported to a usb host |
| 12:01.41 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Hmm... ok, so the camera requires vfat. Hmm... I do take pictures/movies ... what to do what to do.. |
| 12:01.42 | DocScrutinizer | camera will happily store to uSD though |
| 12:02.30 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer to the rescue! I suppose I can check if camera has a setting to store to uSD? Come to think of it, I think that's what I've got it set at right now. |
| 12:02.37 | pupnik | has gone from wishing the n900 were better to being happy it ever was produced |
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| 12:03.05 | kwtm | Speaking of which, can the N900 handle uSD >16GB? No such card has been available locally so I never asked. |
| 12:03.18 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: allegedly yes |
| 12:03.45 | kwtm | pupnik: I've taken to assuming that, any moment now, I will be the only N900 user left on this planet. Which is why I'm installing all sorts of stuff on my N900 now even though I might not use it for a long long time. |
| 12:04.17 | pupnik | what do u mean, there's no replacement device in-sight |
| 12:04.19 | HRH_H_Crab | im still using mine. |
| 12:04.21 | HRH_H_Crab | :P |
| 12:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | I'll use mine for a loooong time to come |
| 12:04.41 | HRH_H_Crab | if i had the cash id buy another spare too for when this one dies. |
| 12:04.57 | pupnik | planning for another one here too |
| 12:04.58 | HRH_H_Crab | if i had a LOT of cash id prob. buy multipe spares. |
| 12:05.03 | DocScrutinizer | got ONE spare |
| 12:05.17 | DocScrutinizer | would like to have another one |
| 12:05.29 | kwtm | pupnik: What I mean is: the N900 ecosystem is fragile. There might not be replacement parts, and if I upgrade to PR 1.3 there won't be a Nokia person at the other end of the helpline to say, "We'll support you!" |
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| 12:05.44 | *** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
| 12:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | helpline has de facto moved to <here> |
| 12:06.21 | kwtm | and I'm paranoid about the USB port now ... I've got my universal battery charger ... figuring out how to SSH into the N900 in case the keyboard fails or my screen gets cracked ... |
| 12:06.32 | pupnik | kwtm: it's not exactly like buying a symbian/apple phone in that regard |
| 12:06.34 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I'm so glad the maemo community is here. |
| 12:07.23 | pupnik | what kind of question would you ask a support line? |
| 12:07.38 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: I sympathize with your mindset |
| 12:07.40 | pupnik | i haven't even been able to think of one that i'd expect them to be able to answer |
| 12:07.51 | kwtm | You know, I can't seem to find where to tell my camera to capture to uSD instead of flash memory. Not in "camera" or "settings". Can someone refresh my memory? |
| 12:08.17 | DocScrutinizer | in camera |
| 12:08.19 | kwtm | pupnik: I already used Nokia twice to return the first two N900's that I bought. |
| 12:08.26 | DocScrutinizer | click on card icon iirc |
| 12:08.35 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: I tap on the ... ohhh, the CARD icon! Let me try.. |
| 12:08.39 | pupnik | what was defective kwtm (!) |
| 12:08.53 | ShadowJK | open lens cover, tap preview so you get titlebar frame, tap titlebar, tap general settings |
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| 12:09.38 | DocScrutinizer | meh, tap on card icon bottom left |
| 12:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 â |
| 12:11.01 | kwtm | pupnik: Ohhh... well, after fiddling with it for a bit, it wouldn't boot properly, until I reflashed. Then it would happen again. Since I didn't reboot the N900 too often, it was not obvious exactly when it would switch over to this state where a reboot would cause it to hang, and what I was doing (if anything) to cause it. |
| 12:12.02 | kwtm | After spending a long time in this IRC channel and in the forums, we tried switching uSD cards and SIM cards and it would still happen, so I thought it might be a bad unit, or (after buying another one from the same store) a bad batch. |
| 12:12.32 | pupnik | interesting |
| 12:12.45 | pupnik | did you resolve the issue? |
| 12:12.47 | kwtm | After the same problem happened with a unit I got from Amazon instead of the local electronics store, I thought maybe, just maybe, there was actually a bug in the software. [omit mention of the derision I got from some N900 experts here ...] |
| 12:13.33 | kwtm | anyway, it turned out that a 2-line text file which does not exist by default on the N900, which if present, can cause one of the installed-by-default pieces of software on the N900 to prevent being able to boot properly. |
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| 12:14.32 | pupnik | where was this textfile stored and what did it contain? |
| 12:14.47 | pupnik | much of the configuration of linux devices is in text files |
| 12:14.56 | kwtm | So, the lesson is, never assume that anything you do on the N900 is safe and won't interact with other software, no matter how ridiculous it might seem that such a harmless thing can bring down a $500 piece of equipment. |
| 12:15.31 | kwtm | The text file is ~/.profile ... which, to all rights, should NOT be executed by the shell unless it's an interactive shell. |
| 12:16.06 | kwtm | Furthermore, if the shell DOES decide to execute it, and it results in an error, it should NOT cause the entire device to lock up on booting! :( |
| 12:16.37 | pupnik | i didn't know it read .profile on boot either |
| 12:17.03 | kwtm | In the ~/.profile, I sourced a longer .profile stored in flash storage ... which is not yet mounted on bootup. So then it just decides to flash those five bootup dots forever. |
| 12:17.40 | kwtm | And here I was, trying to figure out how to download the flash image from my crummy connection on my hotel room ... |
| 12:17.43 | timeless_w7ip | ponders |
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| 12:17.53 | timeless_w7ip | are you sure about your claims for .profile? |
| 12:17.56 | kwtm | unable to make phone calls on my cell because the N900 was in "forever dots" mode. |
| 12:17.57 | pupnik | you're serious? |
| 12:18.09 | timeless_w7ip | my naive reading says ".profile is executed each time you log in" |
| 12:18.13 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: When I removed the ~/.profile, it worked. |
| 12:18.19 | timeless_w7ip | to me when i start X, i've "logged in" |
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| 12:19.00 | pupnik | i'm surprised i haven't messed up my .profile yet |
| 12:19.27 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: I could be wrong. My understanding is that .bashrc or .shlogin whatever the equivalent is for logging in, and .profile is for when I get a shell prompt. |
| 12:19.45 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: But possibly the N900 considers the GUI as a form of having logged in. |
| 12:20.13 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: But I continue to think that, if a file is non-existent, the resulting error should not render the device unbootable. |
| 12:20.43 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: if you can break the device from the gui (x terminal is not the gui) without installing third party software |
| 12:20.45 | timeless_w7ip | then it's a bug |
| 12:20.45 | kwtm | We also had a lively discussion about whether the N900 should have a reset button like my desktop or the Treo (e.g 650 which I had been using previously) |
| 12:21.01 | timeless_w7ip | if you can't, then you're taking advantage of your powers as a user to break everything |
| 12:21.12 | ShadowJK | iirc there's a "set" statement that makes commands in a script not fail entire script |
| 12:21.44 | ShadowJK | but I just added ||echo "Oh no" to everything I add |
| 12:21.47 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: I guess I'll just say we all have our own opinions about what does or does not constitute a bug, and leave it at that. |
| 12:22.06 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: a bug is something that doesn't work according to design |
| 12:22.23 | timeless_w7ip | the design allows you to break the device as much as you like by installing third party software or using xterminal |
| 12:22.25 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: I guess I'll just say we all have our own opinions about what does or does not constitute reasonable design, and leave it at that. |
| 12:22.43 | timeless_w7ip | if we *didn't* allow you to break your device |
| 12:22.47 | timeless_w7ip | you'd scream bloody murder |
| 12:22.51 | timeless_w7ip | you can't have that both ways |
| 12:22.51 | kwtm | Anyway ... so, watch out for ~/.profile |
| 12:23.04 | timeless_w7ip | i suggest you be happy w/ the tradeoff of being able to break your device |
| 12:23.12 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Well, that wasn't the main issue .. the main issue was that no one else had encountered this problem before, so it was difficult to track down. |
| 12:23.14 | timeless_w7ip | otherwise, you should buy an iPhone |
| 12:23.38 | timeless_w7ip | there are an infinite number of ways to break a unix system |
| 12:23.49 | timeless_w7ip | so yeah, it's unfortunate that you found a less travelled path :) |
| 12:23.51 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Just to be clear, I'm NOT accusing you of breaking my device. |
| 12:23.57 | kwtm | :) |
| 12:24.00 | timeless_w7ip | oh good |
| 12:24.09 | BCMM | timeless_w7ip: y'know, the iphone runs Unix... |
| 12:24.09 | timeless_w7ip | sadly you're unhappy about my employer and my larger team |
| 12:24.21 | timeless_w7ip | bcmm: well |
| 12:24.24 | timeless_w7ip | it uses a mach kernel |
| 12:24.26 | timeless_w7ip | and runs iOS |
| 12:24.35 | timeless_w7ip | whether people would call it unix, i dunno |
| 12:24.36 | ShadowJK | BCMM, but they dont let you tinker with it |
| 12:24.36 | kwtm | Aaaanyway, so that's why I'm really careful nowadays about what I do with my N900 ... |
| 12:24.42 | BCMM | i know |
| 12:24.44 | timeless_w7ip | OS X is unix, yes |
| 12:25.10 | BCMM | isn't iOS Darwin-based? |
| 12:25.12 | timeless_w7ip | and on OS X, you do have the abilities given to you by unix to break your mac in an infinite number of ways |
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| 12:25.20 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Well, I guess I really had high hopes for Nokia, and part of it was going in the right direction in terms of having the support of the Open Source community ... but sadly that is not going to continue. :( |
| 12:25.24 | timeless_w7ip | iOS does not however give you that power |
| 12:25.38 | timeless_w7ip | and that's a design choice |
| 12:25.42 | timeless_w7ip | it isn't a "bug" |
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| 12:25.52 | timeless_w7ip | just as the n900 *does* give you that power |
| 12:25.58 | timeless_w7ip | and you exercising that power is not a bug per se |
| 12:26.06 | timeless_w7ip | it may lead to unfortunate results |
| 12:26.24 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Well, I got a lot of "you're such a NOOB! I've had my N900 for 6 months now and I' |
| 12:26.31 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Well, I got a lot of "you're such a NOOB! I've had my N900 for 6 months now and I've NEVER had it unable to boot!" etc. etc. |
| 12:26.41 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: did you use tmo or something? |
| 12:26.44 | timeless_w7ip | if so, i'm sorry :) |
| 12:26.48 | kwtm | What's tmo? |
| 12:26.50 | timeless_w7ip | for that, you do have my sympathies |
| 12:26.57 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: is this just me or are you actually in an argue-happy mood today? Did the cig and coffee fail on giving you some relief? |
| 12:27.07 | timeless_w7ip | doc: i'm unhappy today, yes |
| 12:27.09 | pupnik | kwtm: well that's an unfortunate sequence of events :/ |
| 12:27.15 | BCMM | kwtm: somewhere people say NOOB a lot :) |
| 12:27.26 | BCMM | (the talk.maemo.org forums) |
| 12:27.35 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: if you don't know, count yourself as blessed and don't find out |
| 12:27.38 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Or is it just me? If so, I'm sorry, I don't mean to argue. Just saying that this N900 is very very precious to me now that we don't foresee more Linux support for such devices from Nokia. |
| 12:28.01 | BCMM | i like TMO. it distract certain people who could end up on IRC without it. |
| 12:28.03 | DocScrutinizer | ~tmo |
| 12:28.03 | infobot | it has been said that tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo |
| 12:28.06 | timeless_w7ip | isn't sure how to reply to that |
| 12:28.12 | timeless_w7ip | bcmm++ |
| 12:28.12 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Oh, you mean where did I get the flak from? No, actually, I got mostly good support from tmo. The flak was from this IRC channel, actually. |
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| 12:29.10 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: sorry to hear that |
| 12:29.27 | timeless_w7ip | anyway, generally speaking a terminal on any os will enable you to break stuff |
| 12:29.39 | kwtm | I see now that there can be just a minority of people who can make things really intimidating for a noob. |
| 12:29.39 | timeless_w7ip | and there's an implied contract that you should know what you're doing and remember what you've done |
| 12:30.08 | timeless_w7ip | you can break a windows computer or a macintosh similarly easily if you wield a command prompt |
| 12:30.16 | mikhas | happens with every community |
| 12:30.20 | timeless_w7ip | my favorite is OS X w/ file vault |
| 12:30.27 | timeless_w7ip | if you ssh into a file vault'd user and log out |
| 12:30.36 | timeless_w7ip | then you'll never be able to log into that user's account again |
| 12:30.43 | timeless_w7ip | because it doesn't unmount the volume |
| 12:30.44 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: Well, at the time we were suspicious of all sorts of packages from extras-devel, so I tried installing half of it at a time, installing different halves and seeing which combination of installed packages resulted in a crash. Which is why I haven't been installing from extras-devel until recently. |
| 12:30.46 | mikhas | some people feel their opinion has more weight, because they've been there "from the beginning", or so |
| 12:30.47 | timeless_w7ip | and gets really pissed :) |
| 12:31.22 | kwtm | mikhas: Yes, I see that now. But at the time I hadn't been on IRC a lot ; I just logged on because I was desperate to make a phone call and my cell phone had crashed. :P |
| 12:31.27 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: the reason to be suspicious of third party <Stuff> is because it's usually to blame |
| 12:31.35 | timeless_w7ip | in this case it was a third party file created by you :) |
| 12:31.46 | timeless_w7ip | it's easier to finger third party software because that's easier to spot |
| 12:31.58 | timeless_w7ip | it's also easier to test/revert |
| 12:32.13 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that too |
| 12:32.14 | kwtm | So, going back to the original reason I brought this up: now it's a tradeoff between "don't install from extras-devel because it might break the N900 again!" and "install from extras-devel now before the repository disappears in a Left Behind type scenario!" |
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| 12:32.20 | timeless_w7ip | note that the same applies on windows, os x and other browsers |
| 12:32.21 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ?? |
| 12:32.25 | jacekowski | 13:37 < DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: (still unemployed) are you asking for hints about what you're facing? |
| 12:32.31 | timeless_w7ip | the first step is "try safe mode (which disables third party drivers, addons, etc)" |
| 12:32.45 | jacekowski | i have all plugs and sockets and stuff |
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| 12:33.07 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: ah |
| 12:33.14 | timeless_w7ip | well, install one app at a time |
| 12:33.21 | timeless_w7ip | and test all apps after you install each app |
| 12:33.24 | timeless_w7ip | but actually |
| 12:33.31 | timeless_w7ip | the right thing to do is to get someone to mirror it |
| 12:33.37 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: I haven't found any *serious* problems with any devel sw |
| 12:33.47 | kwtm | I ask myself: if I am marooned on an island on the other side of the world, where no one has ever heard of Linux, for how long will I be able to use my smartphone? (This actually happened, btw.) |
| 12:33.49 | timeless_w7ip | because as i learned, just because you install stuff doesn't mean you won't want to reinstall it later |
| 12:34.07 | timeless_w7ip | kwtm: your island has cellular/wifi? :) |
| 12:34.13 | timeless_w7ip | prefers the islands that don't |
| 12:34.23 | timeless_w7ip | also, it has A/C? :) |
| 12:34.37 | timeless_w7ip | again, the islands which don't are better ;) |
| 12:34.49 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: I tried installing one app at a time, but because the crash would only happened at odd times, I couldn't actually trigged it to crash. When I realized it was crashing on bootup, then I figured out how to reproduce the fault and it took only 2 hours to zero in on the problem. |
| 12:35.13 | timeless_w7ip | (wrt installing stuff, i had installed an app i really liked, but it disappeared from its repo, and after reflashing i couldn't reinstall it. had i saved the .deb's i'd have been fine) |
| 12:35.21 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: the island in question has wifi/cellular, yes. Also A/C. Also N900's for sale! But no one has heard of Linux. |
| 12:35.37 | timeless_w7ip | n900's for sale!? wow |
| 12:35.43 | timeless_w7ip | get me the number for that island! |
| 12:35.59 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: It happened before I bought my N900. I had my Treo, and a car charger for it, plus an adapter so I could plug the car charger into a wall socket. |
| 12:36.15 | timeless_w7ip | nods |
| 12:36.22 | timeless_w7ip | still a cool island |
| 12:36.30 | jacekowski | where is that island |
| 12:36.34 | kwtm | timeless_w7ip: (The sale price was higher than from Amazon.com) So, anyway... the adapter for the wall socket blew. SO I couldn't charge my Treo. |
| 12:36.37 | jacekowski | is it australia? |
| 12:36.38 | kwtm | jacekowski: Hong Kong. |
| 12:36.52 | timeless_w7ip | that's a rather sizable island :) |
| 12:36.56 | timeless_w7ip | and sales there started late |
| 12:37.13 | DocScrutinizer | eeeew hong kong |
| 12:37.24 | DocScrutinizer | way too busy |
| 12:37.26 | kwtm | So I looked around in the PLETHORA of electronic stores that cover Hong Kong. Well, they've never heard of a car-charger-to-wall adapter. Most people don't drive cars. |
| 12:37.27 | timeless_w7ip | notes that it's roughly equivalent to calling Austalia or Japan "islands") |
| 12:37.47 | timeless_w7ip | heh |
| 12:37.49 | jacekowski | kwtm: just get a car battery charger |
| 12:38.00 | timeless_w7ip | jacekowski: and a car? |
| 12:38.04 | jacekowski | kwtm: some of them have 12V socket on them |
| 12:38.07 | kwtm | The Treo (curse you, Palm!) uses a non-standard charger that changes with each model of Treo. |
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| 12:38.25 | kwtm | jacekowski: I *have* a car battery charger. I didn't have a car. 99% of the population don't. |
| 12:38.38 | jacekowski | as far as i know that agreement between manufacturers to use microusb for charging |
| 12:38.46 | jacekowski | is now a law in eu |
| 12:38.48 | kwtm | So then I looked for a universal battery charger! Guess what --the Treo battery is 2mm too large to fit in. |
| 12:39.09 | jacekowski | kwtm: no wonder why palm went bust |
| 12:39.11 | jacekowski | and taken over by hp |
| 12:39.20 | kwtm | jacekowski: Yeah, I'm so glad there's that standard. Treo sells a USB adapter for charging ... which, with express shipping, would arrive about 2 days after I left Hong Kong. |
| 12:39.46 | jacekowski | kwtm: isn't most of that stuff made i china anyways |
| 12:40.01 | kwtm | jacekowski: Hey, I was a relatively early Palm adopter (Palm III was my first), and after they got bought by USRobotics, they were already showing signs of $BIG_COMPANY managing $SMALL_STARTUP |
| 12:40.06 | pupnik | more gaming measurements - averaging around 390 mA current draw |
| 12:40.48 | kwtm | jacekowski: Yeah, but you can't buy it in Hong Kong. I asked, "Treo 650?" and they said, "Wasn't that from ancient history? Like, from the Ming dynasty? Everyone's using the Treo 9900000x nowadays --want a charger for *that*?" |
| 12:41.11 | pupnik | kwtm: can you order things on-line there? |
| 12:41.32 | kwtm | jacekowski: Then I got the TRGpro, and the HandEra, and then (what a mistake!) the Tungsten SomethingOrOther, and finally the Treo 650, before that charger fiasco made me say: No more Palm! |
| 12:41.43 | kwtm | pupnik: Yes, but I was only in Hong Kong for 3 weeks, and shipping would take too long. |
| 12:41.54 | pupnik | ah annoying |
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| 12:42.41 | kwtm | So (not that this conversation is related to Maemo any more) I was so paranoid that I had my Treo off all the time (it was on red-warning-low-battery mode by now) and couldn't rely on the calendar reminders (like "renew travel documents TODAY so you can travel back home!")... |
| 12:42.46 | pupnik | raises a glass to micro-usb charging |
| 12:43.06 | *** join/#maemo Omegamoon (~egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:43.27 | MohammadAG | ~seen noobmok3y |
| 12:43.36 | infobot | MohammadAG: i haven't seen 'noobmok3y' |
| 12:43.36 | kwtm | It turns out that, once I was able to get it charged (finally found a wall charger in some far-off electronics store), the Treo uses practically no battery charge if you don't use it as a cell phone ... |
| 12:43.36 | pupnik | another nice thing is a spare battery + universal charger, kwtm |
| 12:43.36 | MohammadAG | ~seen noobmonk3y |
| 12:43.37 | infobot | noobmonk3y <~Noobmonk3@212.183.128.78> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 18h 29m 2s ago, saying: 'lol'. |
| 12:43.59 | kwtm | pupnik: tried that. Universal chargers nowadays won't fit the large Treo 650 battery. It was just 2mm too large to squeeze in. |
| 12:44.30 | kwtm | shudders. |
| 12:44.43 | kwtm | Anyway, microUSB chargers ftw. |
| 12:44.48 | DocScrutinizer | curses USB charging |
| 12:45.19 | kwtm | Nice talking with you guys. I have to go purge some desktop/laptop Ubuntu setups and then reflash my N900. |
| 12:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | It's like having a standard to convert arbitrary vacuum cleaners into hairdryer |
| 12:46.02 | pupnik | cheers kwtm |
| 12:47.24 | Macer | hahahaha |
| 12:47.46 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: but at least you can use different chargers |
| 12:48.04 | Macer | :) |
| 12:48.46 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 12:50.43 | *** join/#maemo suresh_ (~suresh@188.111.54.39) |
| 12:51.34 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 12:54.10 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 12:55.57 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: you happened to notice you could use virtually any arbitrary Nokia charger (barrel type 3.5mm) for every Nokia phone, since 1997, and as well all universal PSU with a 4.5V setting and a matching 3.5mm adapter? |
| 12:57.33 | DocScrutinizer | plus those barrel plugs were WAY more ruggedized than any mini/micro-USB |
| 12:58.00 | DocScrutinizer | and magnitudes cleaner useage pattern |
| 12:59.15 | DocScrutinizer | also could handle *real* fastcharging, while USB is specified only up to 1000mA afaik |
| 12:59.17 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 13:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | probably requiring all devices have a 3.5mm stereo headset receptacle and the abuse that for charging would have been a saner concept than charging over USB |
| 13:01.18 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 13:01.34 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: i meant other brand phone chargers |
| 13:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 13:02.11 | Macer | well. sometimes you might forget your proprietary nokia charger |
| 13:02.11 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs13.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 13:02.25 | DocScrutinizer | you can specify all phones need a 3.5mm barrel charger receptacle as easily as they specified all phones need to charge via USB |
| 13:02.26 | Macer | maybe nokia should have kept both |
| 13:02.29 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 13:02.39 | pupnik | charging over 3.5mm headset - cool idea DocScrutinizer |
| 13:02.49 | Macer | usb was already a standard |
| 13:02.55 | DocScrutinizer | BS |
| 13:03.25 | Macer | and... screw nokia anyways. they suck. nobody wants to follow nokidiot inc |
| 13:03.28 | timeless_w7ip | isn't usb more like 100 standards? |
| 13:03.28 | pupnik | i love the idea |
| 13:03.37 | Macer | :) |
| 13:03.38 | DocScrutinizer | charging over USB was nothing near any standard. Not even all phones having an USB was any standard, neither defacto nor written |
| 13:04.08 | ShadowJK | usb wasnt a standard, in fact, many pre-standard usb chargers are incompatible with standards compliant devices :) |
| 13:04.10 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: would you like to kick Macer ? |
| 13:04.12 | Macer | but i am sure the usb charging was easier to implement as a charging solution |
| 13:04.36 | Macer | across the board |
| 13:04.53 | pupnik | but more phones have a 3.5mm jack |
| 13:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: not at all. USB charging gives endless headache |
| 13:05.24 | timeless_w7ip | pupnik: a lot of phones don't though :) |
| 13:05.35 | DocScrutinizer | see N810, has nice USB hostmode *because* it doesn't need to charge via USB |
| 13:05.40 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: to you maybe. only time i thought it was an issue was when i couldnt charge and listen to music in headphones on my g1 |
| 13:06.16 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: who gives a fsck about *your* headache |
| 13:06.19 | Macer | hahaha |
| 13:06.32 | DocScrutinizer | are *you* designing the hardware? |
| 13:06.36 | Macer | who gives a fsck about yours? ;) |
| 13:07.35 | DocScrutinizer | about mine all those bother that get kicked ass when the EE design doesn't meet my requirements |
| 13:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | so it's their headache as well |
| 13:08.02 | Macer | i think the goal was to allow charger swapping. he usb stuff was probably already in place to be manufactured whereas developing a "new" standard would require more time.. and most importantly... money |
| 13:08.31 | DocScrutinizer | and you bet it's been Nokia EE's headache when they found they had to bin hostmode on N900 due to USB charging |
| 13:09.02 | Macer | nokia could have added a secondary host |
| 13:09.05 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 13:09.17 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: stop telling BS. 3.5mm barrel is from 1997 as I already explained above. No need to "invent a new standard" |
| 13:09.27 | Macer | they didnt because it cost too much and they could care less about some usb host mode hackery |
| 13:09.30 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: no, you mustn't |
| 13:09.39 | DocScrutinizer | read USB-OTG specs |
| 13:10.13 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: you're soo err smart. I dunno what to answer |
| 13:10.18 | ShadowJK | usb charting *was* a new standard. Existing stuff didnt work with it. This is why hostmode is so difficult on n900, they had to add a separate chip to meet the new usb charging standard |
| 13:10.29 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net) |
| 13:11.29 | timeless_w7ip | shadowjk: s/charting/charging/ ;-) |
| 13:12.12 | Macer | ShadowJK: they didn't HAVE to. they wanted to. they could have just as easily used their older charging method. there isnt a law preventing them from doing that. i suppose it is just an idea to be able to charge while hooked up to a nokia netbook (running windows 7) to charge their new nokia phone (running winmob) |
| 13:13.02 | timeless_w7ip | is pretty sure nokia committed to usb charging *before* the EU mandated it |
| 13:13.04 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: stop handwaving telling BS. There |
| 13:13.19 | DocScrutinizer | 's a law that made manufs have USB charging |
| 13:13.20 | timeless_w7ip | nokia could have shipped 2 usb ports too |
| 13:13.24 | timeless_w7ip | but ... |
| 13:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 13:13.38 | DocScrutinizer | not if trying to get USB-OTG cert |
| 13:13.43 | Macer | heh they could do whatever they wanted to |
| 13:13.51 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 13:13.51 | timeless_w7ip | doc: you're only allowed one? :) |
| 13:13.56 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:13.58 | DocScrutinizer | OTG |
| 13:14.01 | timeless_w7ip | wow, interesting |
| 13:14.03 | DocScrutinizer | only one receptacle |
| 13:14.29 | Macer | they could have used their older charger |
| 13:14.30 | timeless_w7ip | fwiw, oddly the n8 has two charging ports |
| 13:14.45 | MohammadAG | timeless_w7ip, not a USB one |
| 13:14.46 | DocScrutinizer | you MAY have a dedicated charger receptacle in addition though |
| 13:14.57 | timeless_w7ip | mohammadag: um, they both work |
| 13:15.00 | DocScrutinizer | *not* USB formfactor |
| 13:15.21 | MohammadAG | timeless_w7ip, but one's a USB, the other isn't |
| 13:15.32 | MohammadAG | the E75 has the same |
| 13:15.35 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: they are not required by some sort of law to adhere to a usb charging method are they? |
| 13:15.45 | DocScrutinizer | they are |
| 13:15.52 | timeless_w7ip | mohammadag: careful w/ your English |
| 13:15.54 | Macer | uhm |
| 13:16.06 | DocScrutinizer | uhm yeah. Now please stop that BS |
| 13:16.13 | timeless_w7ip | the n8 has *one* usb port which is a 'usb [charging] one' and one non usb port which is for charging too |
| 13:16.16 | Macer | er |
| 13:16.21 | DocScrutinizer | come back after reading specs and wiki |
| 13:16.42 | MohammadAG | timeless_w7ip, can't someone be lazy? |
| 13:16.46 | Macer | i would love to read this international law requirement that completely restricts hardware development |
| 13:16.55 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: now that'S really odd |
| 13:16.59 | timeless_w7ip | mohammadag: one can try, but it's incredibly risky |
| 13:17.09 | timeless_w7ip | doc: i didn't say it wasn't |
| 13:17.11 | Macer | if you have a link i would love to read it |
| 13:17.19 | timeless_w7ip | macer: it isn't about development |
| 13:17.25 | timeless_w7ip | laws generally cover sale |
| 13:17.36 | timeless_w7ip | "you may not sell an <X> unless it does|has <Y>" |
| 13:17.51 | timeless_w7ip | e.g. "you may not sell electronics which does not have FCC certification" |
| 13:17.58 | timeless_w7ip | or whatever the EU equivalent is |
| 13:18.02 | DocScrutinizer | USB-OTG specs aren't exactly unambiguous on that, but the usual way to read those is you must not have 2 USB receptacles |
| 13:18.10 | timeless_w7ip | doc: lol |
| 13:18.15 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 13:18.30 | DocScrutinizer | though technically they speak about 2 USB host receptacles IIRC |
| 13:18.52 | DocScrutinizer | s/host/OTG/. |
| 13:18.52 | Macer | well. i would love to read the law that says "you must use usb charging and have no other method to charge all phones from this day forward" |
| 13:19.09 | DocScrutinizer | there's no such law |
| 13:19.20 | Macer | then.... nokia just said fu |
| 13:19.25 | SpeedEvil | It's currently an agreement. |
| 13:19.33 | DocScrutinizer | you friggin don't even read (or fail to understand) what's been written here 10 min ago |
| 13:19.36 | SpeedEvil | And there are moves afoot to make it mandatory in europe. |
| 13:19.45 | SpeedEvil | Or it may already be mandatory. |
| 13:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | it is |
| 13:20.04 | DocScrutinizer | in china it is since years |
| 13:20.28 | timeless_w7ip | macer: i believe nokia committed to include usb charging |
| 13:20.33 | timeless_w7ip | that's not an exclusive commitment |
| 13:20.35 | DocScrutinizer | but they never forbid other alternative charging methods if they are *additional* |
| 13:20.38 | timeless_w7ip | as in the n8 |
| 13:20.39 | Macer | timeless_w7ip: i am sure they did |
| 13:20.50 | timeless_w7ip | nokia legal/pr isn't that stupid |
| 13:21.05 | timeless_w7ip | note that practically speaking it's expensive to include and test both |
| 13:21.18 | timeless_w7ip | plus testing the case where people like <timeless> try to use both at once |
| 13:21.23 | Macer | timeless_w7ip: i am sure it is |
| 13:21.30 | timeless_w7ip | so eventually you'll only have the mandated itemms |
| 13:21.32 | Macer | haha |
| 13:21.32 | timeless_w7ip | s/mm/m/ |
| 13:21.46 | timeless_w7ip | but.... that's not something you promise right away |
| 13:21.48 | timeless_w7ip | why bother |
| 13:23.40 | Macer | too bad i cant hook a usb kb up to my n900 |
| 13:23.44 | Macer | hides |
| 13:26.52 | DocScrutinizer | too bad you fail on trolling as much as you fail on arguing about design considerations and requirements |
| 13:28.10 | DocScrutinizer | and if you even fail on hooking up a kbd to your N900, that's really TOO bad |
| 13:29.12 | DocScrutinizer | a large crown of noobs that have done exactly that without particular problems is laughing at you |
| 13:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | crowd even |
| 13:31.07 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if andridiot usage actually deteriorates wetware that rapidly, or Macer is just practicing trolling - on a rather beginner's level |
| 13:33.23 | Macer | heh |
| 13:33.45 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 13:34.25 | Macer | i gyhink your blood pressure rises too easily over meaningless arguments. start your own phone manufacturing company and you can design the perfect design all you want |
| 13:35.14 | ZogG | i made meego t-shirt - check it out http://i.imgur.com/bDs9h.png |
| 13:35.20 | Macer | considering the fact that... you get what you get and have to deal with it |
| 13:35.37 | DocScrutinizer | fsckoff, go carve your perfect phone for yourself. I'm not interested in your unqualified provocations |
| 13:36.08 | MohammadAG | float to int doesn't take time right? |
| 13:36.13 | Macer | :) your choice. |
| 13:36.24 | Macer | ZogG: thats awesome |
| 13:36.32 | MohammadAG | <Macer> too bad i cant hook a usb kb up to my n900 <-- can't? |
| 13:36.43 | alterego | MohammadAG: should take one tick |
| 13:36.46 | alterego | Or les |
| 13:36.48 | ZogG | Macer right ah? |
| 13:36.52 | alterego | ~less depending on architecture. |
| 13:36.55 | ZogG | MohammadAG, how is my t-shirt? |
| 13:37.39 | MohammadAG | alterego, ty :) |
| 13:37.43 | Macer | ZogG: a grave with flowers in front of it with the maemo logo on the headstone would be cool too |
| 13:37.51 | MohammadAG | lol ZogG |
| 13:38.09 | MohammadAG | Macer, isn't there an #android channel somewhere? :P |
| 13:38.12 | DocScrutinizer | what an idiot, claiming X is perfect, then when you explain X is far from being perfect, just a requirement due to Y, he's suggesting "go start your own company to do it better" - how utterly missing the point |
| 13:39.06 | Macer | MohammadAG: saying maemo is dead doesnt make me hate it. it makes me miss it. |
| 13:39.15 | Macer | plus.. carman is great |
| 13:39.34 | alterego | Maemo isn't dead until the last person leaves this channel and the last person doesn't post in tmo .. |
| 13:39.48 | alterego | And the last device gets abandoned running maemo by the last uesr. |
| 13:39.49 | alterego | ~user |
| 13:39.49 | infobot | i heard user is currently detached. Talk to this user upon their return. You will now be ignored. [HackFactor Elite 2.0], or a synonym for moron |
| 13:39.53 | SpeedEvil | notes there are still a couple of hundred people in #openmoko |
| 13:39.55 | MohammadAG | multiplying a float by 100 should make it an int right? |
| 13:40.01 | Macer | n810 with a windshield mount and the bt obd2 |
| 13:40.10 | alterego | MohammadAG: no |
| 13:40.13 | SpeedEvil | Ok - a hundred. |
| 13:40.16 | alterego | MohammadAG: you have to cast it |
| 13:40.34 | alterego | MohammadAG: a floats precision isn't just to two decimal places :P |
| 13:41.25 | MohammadAG | status : buffering status as a fraction (0.0 - 1.0). |
| 13:41.34 | Macer | SpeedEvil: how did that openmoko work out? |
| 13:41.39 | MohammadAG | it's not that precise here :P |
| 13:41.47 | alterego | MohammadAG: ah, then multiply by 100 and cast to an int |
| 13:41.58 | alterego | To get integer percent, if that's what you're trying to do. |
| 13:42.12 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 13:42.19 | MohammadAG | lemme guess, (int) float? |
| 13:42.25 | SpeedEvil | Macer: It comedically worked out pretty much exactly like maemo has worked out in many ways. |
| 13:42.34 | khorben_ | (some Gtk+ controls expect float values) |
| 13:42.43 | SpeedEvil | Macer: Though nokia asmittedly did produce a _lot_ more functional software stack. |
| 13:42.50 | MohammadAG | int percentage = (int) buffer*100 <-- i.e like that? |
| 13:43.08 | Macer | SpeedEvil: ah. thought quite a few people got freerunners |
| 13:43.12 | khorben_ | int p = (int)(buffer*100); /* is better I think */ |
| 13:43.18 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: while the OM one is a lot more open ;-D |
| 13:43.21 | SpeedEvil | But - changing toolkits mid-stream, and back again - delays in hardware, company deciding it'd ratehr do other things than linux phones. |
| 13:43.24 | SpeedEvil | All parallels. |
| 13:43.32 | SpeedEvil | Macer: ~5-10K |
| 13:43.50 | SpeedEvil | Macer: Whereas the n900 probably sold that in the first day or three of preorder. |
| 13:44.13 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: afaik 12k |
| 13:44.15 | Macer | only because of the nokia name |
| 13:44.23 | Macer | ;) |
| 13:44.40 | Macer | n900 did have so much promise tho. it is a shame |
| 13:45.09 | Macer | i sometimes think companies try to reduce fun on their devices on purpose |
| 13:45.29 | kerio | it's because they're idiots |
| 13:45.39 | Macer | because if you are able to keep a phone awesome for 10 years nobody will buy one of your new ones |
| 13:45.44 | Macer | :) |
| 13:46.04 | khorben_ | (sony ps3 + linux) |
| 13:46.08 | kerio | if you're able to keep a phone awesome for 10 years but you make even more awesome phones, you'll still sell well |
| 13:46.09 | Macer | the cooperate mentality |
| 13:46.23 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: at least "we" released all we possibly could, enabling 'the community' to continue developing on a proper sw stack, which actually is an ongoing effort |
| 13:46.27 | Macer | kerio: yeah. i think that too |
| 13:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | so in a number of regards OM is more alive than maemo |
| 13:46.47 | kerio | i have no idea what to buy after the n900 as of now :( |
| 13:47.13 | Macer | kerio: hah. get a nokia winmob phone |
| 13:47.13 | khorben_ | is it obsolete? |
| 13:47.22 | Macer | and find out how to install meego on it |
| 13:47.29 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: any if there's anything still missing to get published, I'm more than happy to help out |
| 13:47.36 | kerio | khorben_: no, but i always want new shiny toys anyway |
| 13:47.47 | khorben_ | ah, that's another issue :p |
| 13:48.06 | kerio | there's no toy that's sufficiently shiny and sufficiently open as of now :( |
| 13:49.02 | khorben_ | that's plenty of time to improve OSS support then :) |
| 13:49.36 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: calypso firmware source? :) |
| 13:49.55 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: but indeed - OM is much more open than n900. |
| 13:50.08 | DocScrutinizer | query me, but don't rise hopes too high. Not even OM got more than maybe 10% of it |
| 13:50.14 | DocScrutinizer | and that'S the boring 10% |
| 13:50.25 | SpeedEvil | In practice, I'm not interested really. |
| 13:50.43 | SpeedEvil | I don't have the time or skills to give it the poking it should have, even if I did have it. |
| 13:51.25 | khorben_ | osmocom ftw |
| 13:51.38 | DocScrutinizer | all you can poke is AT interpreter and hw tty handshake |
| 13:51.52 | DocScrutinizer | or go osmocom |
| 13:51.56 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p4FC22710.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:51.58 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. I'm meaning similar to osmocom. |
| 13:52.00 | kerio | why can't we get at least *the source* to rapuyama anyway? |
| 13:52.07 | SpeedEvil | But starting from working code. |
| 13:52.09 | *** part/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
| 13:52.12 | SpeedEvil | kerio: trade secrets. |
| 13:52.55 | DocScrutinizer | osmocom is based on that featurephone calypso FW, so it's more of a working code (in %) than I could share to you from 'official' OM sources |
| 13:53.12 | *** join/#maemo dangergrrl (~ariana@72.183.120.145) |
| 13:53.24 | dangergrrl | how do you get sip in .au? |
| 13:55.49 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 13:56.18 | kerio | s/trade secrets/the code is really, really, really awful and kludgy/ |
| 13:56.22 | dangergrrl | it was a serious question |
| 13:56.31 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: yeah, cert issues and trade secrets. But even when you get that source it won't help a lot, as you can't mess with it. It's locked like milestone. You can't flash without signing the image with a private key that is in Nokia's steel safe |
| 13:56.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: yeah but figuring out what it can do could help |
| 13:57.01 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 13:57.19 | DocScrutinizer | you're free to disassemble it. jacekowski did |
| 13:57.26 | *** join/#maemo maybeWTF (cl@p5B165D36.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:57.30 | kerio | that's not enough source-y |
| 13:57.38 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 13:58.04 | DocScrutinizer | you're not enough hacker-y |
| 13:58.10 | kerio | i'm not :( |
| 13:58.30 | *** join/#maemo njain (~user@122.163.68.8) |
| 13:58.48 | jacekowski | i have my plugs and stuff soldered |
| 13:59.09 | dangergrrl | so is there sipgate.co.au or such? |
| 13:59.36 | dangergrrl | oh ti is giving out a cortex a9 protoboard |
| 13:59.40 | dangergrrl | i entered |
| 14:00.03 | dangergrrl | no display |
| 14:00.12 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) |
| 14:00.17 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i can hear something in headphones when pressing buttons |
| 14:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 14:00.29 | dangergrrl | but it's like dual core 1ghz n900 with no screen |
| 14:00.42 | jacekowski | on n95 |
| 14:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 14:01.03 | jacekowski | and nothing on n900 |
| 14:01.04 | pupnik | i am getting my butt kicked by sdl right now |
| 14:01.06 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: so maybe they actually clock via L/R |
| 14:01.23 | dangergrrl | am i too ugly to get sip even here? |
| 14:01.26 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 14:01.43 | dangergrrl | oh doc you are in germany? |
| 14:01.44 | jacekowski | and when you plug in you can hear something like 1s after plugging in |
| 14:01.49 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 14:02.06 | dangergrrl | are you german? |
| 14:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: that's this obscure "readout of config storage" I bet |
| 14:02.26 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 14:02.27 | *** join/#maemo Sazpaimon_ (wat@c-68-57-16-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:02.37 | dangergrrl | i am in fact linuxian |
| 14:02.42 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 14:02.43 | jacekowski | ok |
| 14:02.47 | jacekowski | something is wrong |
| 14:02.54 | jacekowski | when i plug in these headphones using my cable |
| 14:02.59 | jacekowski | it asks what is it |
| 14:03.12 | dangergrrl | can i have yr sip again? |
| 14:03.26 | dangergrrl | i'll even show my video :( |
| 14:05.15 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 14:05.41 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: any idea why my cable connected breaks things |
| 14:06.03 | DocScrutinizer | you got those Rs? |
| 14:06.06 | trx | diffrent resistance? |
| 14:06.13 | jacekowski | Rs? |
| 14:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | ok, so not |
| 14:06.28 | jacekowski | it's just plain extension cable |
| 14:06.36 | DocScrutinizer | doublecheck wiring |
| 14:06.37 | jacekowski | that's 20cm long |
| 14:06.38 | jacekowski | i did |
| 14:06.47 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 14:06.59 | DocScrutinizer | NFC |
| 14:07.10 | DocScrutinizer | triple check |
| 14:07.21 | DocScrutinizer | use R-meter to check |
| 14:07.46 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 14:07.48 | jacekowski | it works on my pc |
| 14:07.51 | jacekowski | left and right |
| 14:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, sensing is via mic as well |
| 14:08.40 | *** join/#maemo kama (~kama@2001:470:c850:1::2) |
| 14:08.59 | *** join/#maemo mortenvp (~mortenvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:09.51 | jacekowski | well, if left and right is working |
| 14:10.02 | jacekowski | then wires are not swapped |
| 14:15.54 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 14:16.10 | DocScrutinizer | but mic might have a short or break |
| 14:17.19 | jacekowski | can you verify that pin 1 |
| 14:17.24 | jacekowski | on plug |
| 14:17.25 | DocScrutinizer | actually it's also the contact which is most prone to problems, as receptacles often use a switch on that one, with a 5th pin |
| 14:17.41 | jacekowski | 1,2,3,4 |
| 14:17.44 | jacekowski | where 4 is gnd |
| 14:17.56 | DocScrutinizer | nah, I can't. No idea about your plug or receptacle build |
| 14:18.04 | jacekowski | on headset |
| 14:18.06 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 14:18.10 | jacekowski | i can do it myself |
| 14:18.16 | dangergrrl | i have a +1415 sipgate |
| 14:18.34 | DocScrutinizer | on plug, from tip to sleeve: L, R, mic, GND |
| 14:18.50 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 14:18.55 | dangergrrl | but google has me at 7204 32768 1 |
| 14:19.01 | dangergrrl | +1 |
| 14:19.20 | jacekowski | and 250k on MIC |
| 14:19.21 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: you might want to not spread those details in open channel |
| 14:19.27 | jacekowski | 33.2 on L and R |
| 14:19.42 | dangergrrl | it was the lowest information number they offered |
| 14:20.17 | dangergrrl | docscrutinizer youy may call that anytime even video if possible |
| 14:20.31 | dangergrrl | i promise to be ugly as usual |
| 14:21.07 | dangergrrl | i still have the power of 2 |
| 14:21.30 | dangergrrl | nhot as good as 729 |
| 14:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: check with stock N900 hs, and press button -> should short mic to gnd |
| 14:21.56 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i've lost it |
| 14:22.21 | DocScrutinizer | plug in a 3-pin headphone, same effect |
| 14:22.25 | dangergrrl | do the french think the internet is american? |
| 14:22.27 | ZogG | [ebuild U ] x11-libs/gtk+-3.0.7 [3.0.6] |
| 14:22.33 | ZogG | haha |
| 14:22.47 | dangergrrl | it is not |
| 14:23.04 | ZogG | dangergrrl internet is soviet |
| 14:23.09 | dangergrrl | well i have met stephen tweedie |
| 14:23.17 | dangergrrl | but not remy card |
| 14:23.28 | dangergrrl | i am soviet |
| 14:23.40 | dangergrrl | daspedonia |
| 14:23.41 | ZogG | no you are not |
| 14:24.02 | ZogG | not all onia is soviet but all soviet is onia |
| 14:24.12 | ZogG | =) |
| 14:24.25 | ZogG | commrade dangergrrl |
| 14:24.37 | dangergrrl | so i can't type cyrls bullshit |
| 14:24.38 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: hmm |
| 14:24.40 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's working now |
| 14:24.49 | ZogG | â |
| 14:25.05 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 14:25.08 | ZogG | i'm soviet â ftw!!! |
| 14:25.12 | dangergrrl | i am alive and communist |
| 14:25.37 | DocScrutinizer | this proves you're NOT soviet |
| 14:25.41 | dangergrrl | and i want a fag |
| 14:25.49 | dangergrrl | lol |
| 14:26.05 | ZogG | soviets are soviets and not communists but communists are soviets |
| 14:26.13 | ZogG | it's too complicated for you |
| 14:26.38 | khorben_ | communists are a sbu-set of soviets? |
| 14:26.49 | dangergrrl | you know if you play the communist manifesto backwards you go to heaven |
| 14:27.12 | ZogG | dangergrrl, ÐÐРза Ñобой вÑеÑ
ало, ÑÐ°Ð·Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ñ Ð¾ÐºÐ¾Ð½Ñен! |
| 14:27.33 | dangergrrl | i can not m ake sounds to those letters |
| 14:27.47 | dangergrrl | it is what m ade me not defect |
| 14:27.57 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (~snoopy@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait) |
| 14:28.01 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@ip-62-245-67-4.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 14:28.21 | dangergrrl | but i believe in freedom |
| 14:28.43 | dangergrrl | and that means freedom to copy |
| 14:29.05 | ZogG | ÑÑв г ÑÐºÑ 12 кÑпÑе, |
| 14:29.14 | ZogG | and you are 12 right? |
| 14:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: please probe all three lines L R mic when pressing a button (N95). I guess LR are identical or only one used. So you can probe the used one plus mic in a 2chan scope |
| 14:29.58 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 14:30.07 | dangergrrl | u r too geeky |
| 14:30.19 | joga | enjoys reading geeky stuff here |
| 14:30.26 | DocScrutinizer | timebase range 100ms...0.1ms/sweep |
| 14:30.34 | dangergrrl | i just wanted to lust over your german accent |
| 14:30.51 | joga | wish I had a german accent |
| 14:30.51 | dangergrrl | not like my bike will cross oceans |
| 14:30.53 | jacekowski | i have it |
| 14:30.56 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I need the timing and levels |
| 14:31.17 | dangergrrl | i need a sip number |
| 14:31.59 | dangergrrl | pls |
| 14:32.35 | Corsac | 17 |
| 14:32.40 | dangergrrl | mine is 720 690 7016 |
| 14:33.23 | dangergrrl | i want anonymous to call |
| 14:33.40 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p54A1E216.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:35.19 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1093&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 |
| 14:35.40 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that sort of stuff |
| 14:36.14 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@g230054207.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:36.57 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yeeha, that's starting to become a kickoff |
| 14:37.06 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: is that mic? |
| 14:37.08 | jacekowski | yes |
| 14:37.25 | DocScrutinizer | could you get L+R on a parallel 2nd chan? |
| 14:37.28 | jacekowski | not sure why i can hear it in L |
| 14:37.47 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it looks like all communication is done using that single channel |
| 14:37.56 | DocScrutinizer | expected |
| 14:38.04 | dangergrrl | it says i may not caal u |
| 14:38.20 | dangergrrl | bad |
| 14:38.23 | dangergrrl | call |
| 14:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | anyway check if there's *any* decent signal on LR, or it's really just noise, please |
| 14:38.48 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 14:38.59 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: nothing there |
| 14:39.02 | dangergrrl | we had a linux fest here yesterday |
| 14:39.25 | dangergrrl | i may have a ti proroboard |
| 14:39.34 | DocScrutinizer | great, so now we need to separate pull-to-GND by N95 from pull-2-gnd by hs |
| 14:40.26 | DocScrutinizer | easiest way: have a 10R on mic line, and probe both ends with 2 sync chan |
| 14:40.28 | jacekowski | different voltage lefels |
| 14:41.07 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: first pull to gnd is from headset, next block is from phone next from hs and next from phone |
| 14:41.25 | jacekowski | the one from phone is slightly highe |
| 14:41.42 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i can send you csv file with waveform |
| 14:41.43 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I see |
| 14:41.51 | jacekowski | or |
| 14:41.52 | dangergrrl | uhm |
| 14:41.53 | jacekowski | psdata |
| 14:41.55 | DocScrutinizer | is it zoomable |
| 14:41.57 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 14:42.07 | jacekowski | http://www.picotech.com/softdownloader.html |
| 14:42.09 | dangergrrl | you expect my approval |
| 14:42.09 | jacekowski | psdata is |
| 14:42.12 | jacekowski | if you get that |
| 14:42.17 | jacekowski | it can open it |
| 14:42.18 | dangergrrl | non |
| 14:42.59 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: sorry, you lost me, and everybody else here I guess |
| 14:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: duh, looks like redmond dongled sw |
| 14:44.05 | jacekowski | no |
| 14:44.12 | jacekowski | it's not dongled |
| 14:44.14 | jacekowski | but it's windows |
| 14:44.22 | jacekowski | i can send you csv file |
| 14:44.23 | DocScrutinizer | yeah that's what I meant |
| 14:44.56 | DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer a html like first one, just more spreaded so you can tell apart the single ditches |
| 14:45.08 | jacekowski | do you have oo.o |
| 14:45.09 | jacekowski | or msoffice |
| 14:45.13 | DocScrutinizer | actually read their duration and timing |
| 14:45.23 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 14:45.34 | jacekowski | then csv will do |
| 14:45.37 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 14:45.46 | DocScrutinizer | if it's accurate enough |
| 14:46.15 | jacekowski | it is |
| 14:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: please doublecheck the burst from hs isn't clocked by single pulses from device |
| 14:47.14 | jacekowski | i checked |
| 14:47.16 | jacekowski | nothing |
| 14:47.19 | DocScrutinizer | ok :-D |
| 14:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | you're a smart guy |
| 14:47.43 | DocScrutinizer | a pleasure to cooperate |
| 14:48.05 | jacekowski | hmmm |
| 14:48.13 | jacekowski | it looks like it may be just uart |
| 14:48.50 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 14:48.50 | jacekowski | no |
| 14:49.06 | *** part/#maemo Macer (mace@rancorous.net) |
| 14:49.14 | DocScrutinizer | yup. I see a 18 duration coded bits during 10ms |
| 14:49.34 | DocScrutinizer | long low = 1, short=0 |
| 14:49.40 | DocScrutinizer | sth along that line |
| 14:49.56 | DocScrutinizer | I'd need a more sharp picture |
| 14:50.04 | DocScrutinizer | or csv |
| 14:51.43 | DocScrutinizer | I need the first burst from phone exactly, to know how to start the session, all that follows is RE'able on N900 |
| 14:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | probably watchin plugin negotiation would help as well |
| 14:52.54 | jacekowski | http://maemo.jacekowski.org/headset/n900hs.rar |
| 14:53.16 | jacekowski | one file per waveform |
| 14:53.18 | jacekowski | + other stuff |
| 14:53.32 | jacekowski | so 3*3 are interesting |
| 14:53.34 | jacekowski | 9 in total |
| 14:53.38 | jacekowski | other can be ignored |
| 14:53.47 | jacekowski | it's pushing button, releasing |
| 14:53.49 | DocScrutinizer | ok |
| 14:54.00 | DocScrutinizer | thnaks a lot |
| 14:54.01 | jacekowski | and like a second later after any event there is short burst that means something |
| 14:54.04 | jacekowski | but i'm not sure what |
| 14:54.40 | DocScrutinizer | bye? |
| 14:54.54 | DocScrutinizer | good night? |
| 14:54.54 | *** join/#maemo CyZooNiC (~CyZooNiC@c-82-192-237-13.customer.ggaweb.ch) |
| 14:55.14 | alterego | f'ing love ruby :) |
| 14:55.31 | alterego | status_flags.map(&[:to_s, :capitalize]).join(', ') |
| 14:56.01 | alterego | Being able to extend base classes is p. awesome. |
| 15:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: now we only need to switch on micbias *rapidly* (and in a reasonable manner ;-D), and read out "button-pressed" detector fast enough to reliably sample up to 2000Bd |
| 15:02.46 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 15:02.56 | jacekowski | burst on plug in is too long for me to read |
| 15:03.30 | jacekowski | it's 100ms long |
| 15:04.42 | ShadowJK | sometimes gets plug-in burst in ears |
| 15:04.46 | alterego | "tag fags" |
| 15:04.50 | alterego | Still makes me laugh |
| 15:05.35 | jacekowski | hmm, i could read it |
| 15:05.42 | jacekowski | but with different software |
| 15:07.25 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 15:07.52 | MohammadAG | god mafw is messed up for radio |
| 15:08.01 | MohammadAG | TITLE = artist + album apparently |
| 15:09.15 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: seems like shortest pulses are in the range of 0.1ms |
| 15:09.25 | *** join/#maemo frade (~ivan@a88-114-94-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:10.15 | DocScrutinizer | so oversampling at 20ks/s should do |
| 15:11.01 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski++ |
| 15:11.06 | DocScrutinizer | we'd probably need a kernel driver that directly reads the GPIO connected to the comparators |
| 15:11.14 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-18904.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 15:11.31 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yeah, he's the hero of the day, isn't he? |
| 15:12.36 | jacekowski | that negotiation on plug in may not be important |
| 15:12.46 | jacekowski | as long as phone responds something |
| 15:13.00 | jacekowski | headset will send buttons |
| 15:13.00 | DocScrutinizer | I think we can revamp the OMHDQ driver for that |
| 15:13.33 | MohammadAG | and that's radio playback sorted in the OMP, finally |
| 15:13.34 | *** join/#maemo Puchaty (~Puchaty@77-255-39-180.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 15:14.13 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yeah. As mentioned before, that obscure driver source for the MCU based hs controller suggested it is 'readout of config storage' |
| 15:15.23 | MohammadAG | 552.0k <-- not too bad |
| 15:16.48 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@222.210.172.184) |
| 15:17.05 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: so I guess all that is happening at plugin is hs telling "I'm ACME-556, and I have: mic, stereo headphones, and the buttons: vol+, vol-, pause-play, call, ..." |
| 15:17.19 | *** join/#maemo buntfalke (~nobody@unaffiliated/buntfalke) |
| 15:18.14 | DocScrutinizer | first of all I need to make sense of the binary code |
| 15:18.30 | jacekowski | no need |
| 15:18.42 | jacekowski | just compare known waveforms with recieved |
| 15:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | not really, we could just pattern-match |
| 15:18.55 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:18.59 | DocScrutinizer | but ugly :-) |
| 15:19.13 | jacekowski | or we can ask nokia |
| 15:19.18 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 15:19.21 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 15:19.30 | trx | anyone controled a parallel port on n900? |
| 15:19.41 | DocScrutinizer | err huh? |
| 15:19.42 | trx | (i've got usb to parallel) |
| 15:19.46 | jacekowski | there is no parellal port on n900 |
| 15:19.46 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 15:19.51 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~Andrew@188.123.230.115) |
| 15:20.15 | trx | i need to use ioperm from libc to allow my app to use the ports |
| 15:20.24 | trx | but i dont know how to write to them :/ |
| 15:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | well, where's the problem? shouldn't those come with driver source usually? |
| 15:20.53 | trx | it has a driver, i get a /lp0 |
| 15:20.59 | trx | thats cool |
| 15:20.59 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 15:21.01 | jacekowski | trx: then google will help you |
| 15:21.19 | pupnik | n900 is missing a centronics port |
| 15:21.25 | trx | jacekowski yeah, i just wanted to check if anyone here worked with it.. |
| 15:21.41 | DocScrutinizer | trx: I assume you had a flawlessly working hostmode? |
| 15:21.47 | trx | yeah :) |
| 15:21.51 | trx | ty for that btw |
| 15:21.52 | trx | :) |
| 15:21.55 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 15:22.09 | DocScrutinizer | thank you for exploiting it |
| 15:22.14 | trx | yw :) |
| 15:22.30 | trx | im about to make a "robot car" |
| 15:22.41 | DocScrutinizer | cool |
| 15:22.43 | trx | the n900 will control the steppers |
| 15:23.13 | alterego | Anyone got N900 working with mindstorm? |
| 15:23.41 | ShadowJK | ioperm is only relevant for controlling a pc parallell port hooked up to ISA |
| 15:24.07 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: (<jacekowski> or we can ask nokia [about the binary codes transfered on MuBu-hs]) could you help with that one? |
| 15:25.05 | ShadowJK | trx, has anyone ever used a usb parallell port to do this? |
| 15:25.20 | trx | not that i know of |
| 15:25.25 | trx | (on arm) |
| 15:25.39 | ShadowJK | well on anything |
| 15:25.50 | DocScrutinizer | somebody did, on Freerunner :-D |
| 15:26.00 | *** join/#maemo otep_ (~quassel@AP-203.167.31.157.sysads.com) |
| 15:26.08 | trx | yeah |
| 15:26.21 | trx | i did it on my pc |
| 15:26.21 | DocScrutinizer | not exactly steppers, but a 16 relay card |
| 15:26.37 | trx | relays, steppers, leds |
| 15:26.38 | trx | etc |
| 15:26.47 | trx | via ULN2803 |
| 15:27.06 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.149.238) |
| 15:27.10 | trx | steppers via L297 -> L298 |
| 15:27.18 | DocScrutinizer | smiles and says "cheers, laters..." |
| 15:27.41 | pupnik | o/ |
| 15:30.15 | trx | i can write a stream to /dev/lp0 |
| 15:30.23 | trx | google magic :) |
| 15:30.45 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@216-188-248-24.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 15:32.25 | *** join/#maemo gregoa (~gregoa@chello212186032184.406.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 15:34.21 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:38.14 | GAN900 | How the hell does a dialer application which makes you miss calls half the time placing the red button in the green spot pass QA?! |
| 15:39.22 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@64.250.117.22) |
| 15:41.40 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e212-246-68-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:42.58 | SpeedEvil | Because it conforms to the UI standards. |
| 15:46.38 | *** join/#maemo halin (3bb2a072@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.178.160.114) |
| 15:48.40 | halin | I have apache ant in my File Manager, so I set export ANT_HOME=/MyDocs/apache-ant. But when I set the path as export PATH=${PATH}:${ANT_HOME}/bin |
| 15:48.47 | halin | it says ANT_HOME not found |
| 15:51.53 | halin | Am I doing some thing wrong |
| 15:51.55 | halin | ? |
| 16:00.42 | halin | I am doing this on an N900 |
| 16:01.03 | halin | but I don't if I have set ANT_HOME correctly |
| 16:02.04 | *** join/#maemo Lava_Croft (lcd@h1764403.stratoserver.net) |
| 16:02.28 | *** join/#maemo LOD (~LOD@105.188.122-109.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:02.38 | LOD | hey * |
| 16:07.07 | *** join/#maemo lucent_ (eshattow@2001:470:e056:1:2::) |
| 16:09.54 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@109.65.8.238) |
| 16:15.23 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@222.210.172.184) |
| 16:15.54 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 16:17.24 | RST38h | EHLO WRLD |
| 16:18.29 | LOD | yo |
| 16:23.05 | Corsac | RST38h: Reject, host not found (in response to ehlo command) |
| 16:26.03 | LOD | just to say ;) Im a happy user of Maemo with my N900 ; it seems M$ has changed something for Messenger and I can't log in with Pecan ; Pidgin works but I prefer Telepathy ; Im calling for a solution, please |
| 16:26.43 | MohammadAG | hmm, noticed that as well |
| 16:26.44 | SpeedEvil | When did rthe change occur? |
| 16:26.52 | MohammadAG | yesterday or today |
| 16:26.57 | MohammadAG | this weekend |
| 16:26.57 | LOD | 2 or 3 days ago |
| 16:27.03 | LOD | yes |
| 16:28.05 | MohammadAG | should be on pecan's bugtracker I think |
| 16:28.53 | LOD | I was on pecan irc they know but no more reactions |
| 16:29.22 | LOD | ofcourse I imagine they need time |
| 16:31.39 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@64.250.117.22) |
| 16:31.43 | MohammadAG | meh, MSN works on iOS |
| 16:31.51 | RST38h | Do notice that Nokia has just updated MS Messenger app for Symbian^3 phones |
| 16:32.48 | MohammadAG | oh actually, I do remember there was an update on iOS too |
| 16:32.59 | MohammadAG | it was more than 3 days ago |
| 16:33.17 | LOD | and Nokia is a M$ partner but Windows and Linux :/ |
| 16:33.39 | LOD | yes mayba 4 now |
| 16:33.47 | MohammadAG | telepathy-pecan isn't by Nokia |
| 16:34.02 | MohammadAG | there should be a fix soon, it's used on other platforms |
| 16:34.20 | LOD | Felipe is a Nokia employed no ? |
| 16:34.27 | LOD | ok |
| 16:34.46 | MohammadAG | not sure, think so |
| 16:34.49 | LOD | Felipe is Pecan author I think |
| 16:34.51 | MohammadAG | felipe`, ping |
| 16:35.04 | MohammadAG | oh, nvm, wrong person |
| 16:35.15 | MohammadAG | ~seen felipec |
| 16:35.23 | infobot | felipec <~felipec@nat/nokia/x-gbhqdwkayfjabany> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 17d 23h 48m 57s ago, saying: 'qgil: no, I mean the tools... but apparently only Director was killed'. |
| 16:35.25 | LOD | no problem :) |
| 16:36.01 | LOD | yes it is him I think |
| 16:38.27 | MohammadAG | best thing to do would be to watch the bug report |
| 16:38.44 | MohammadAG | if there isn't one, open a new bug |
| 16:38.49 | MohammadAG | (not on bugs.maemo.org) |
| 16:39.21 | LOD | please do that, I imagine I need to register... :s |
| 16:39.34 | MohammadAG | I don't know the bugtracker :P |
| 16:39.58 | LOD | author Felipe Contreras |
| 16:40.19 | LOD | oh there is gmail email |
| 16:43.05 | LOD | I will email him and wait and see ; bye * oh Im an experimented Blender user, so if you need help a day or anther, ring me on #blender-fr (it is french channel but we will find solution to speak ;) |
| 16:43.30 | LOD | Blender, I mean the 3D software ;) |
| 16:43.55 | *** part/#maemo LOD (~LOD@105.188.122-109.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:43.55 | *** join/#maemo paroneayea (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
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| 17:05.40 | njain | hey what is the signature of CallStatus() on co.nokia.csd.call.Inc\stance interace?? |
| 17:05.53 | njain | no help from google |
| 17:05.55 | njain | :( |
| 17:10.08 | njain | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:24.07 | timeless_w7ip | gan900: hey, do you know if True Lies's Tango is a reference to Never Say Never Again's? |
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| 17:37.23 | GAN900 | timeless_w7ip, I have absolutely no context for that. :P |
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| 18:18.51 | pupnik | you guys @ nokia did a good job with SDL on maemo5 thank you |
| 18:19.02 | pupnik | many annoyances are fixed from the n810 days |
| 18:19.13 | pupnik | saves pupnik time |
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| 18:23.44 | halin | I have ant in my File Manger (N900). I set the ant home as: export ANT_HOME=/home/user/MyDocs/apache-ant-1.8.2. But when I use: export PATH=${PATH}:${ANT_HOME}/bin, it says: ANT_HOME not found, PATH not found |
| 18:24.00 | *** part/#maemo njain (~njain@122.163.68.8) |
| 18:24.02 | halin | Is this needs to be handled differently for N900 |
| 18:24.05 | halin | than in linux |
| 18:24.06 | halin | ? |
| 18:32.40 | pupnik | http://i.imgur.com/1PFug.jpg fixed the HP/Mana/Grace sdl draw errors :D |
| 18:33.41 | pupnik | happy happy |
| 18:33.44 | halin | I have even checked that MyDocs contains apache-ant-1.8.2 |
| 18:34.06 | halin | but still XTerminal connot find it |
| 18:34.11 | SpeedEvil | you cannot run programs on MyDocs. |
| 18:34.24 | SpeedEvil | <ydocs is a FAT filesysrtem, and does not support rexecutable files |
| 18:34.45 | halin | SpeedEvil: right now I am just setting the path |
| 18:34.50 | halin | ANT_HOME |
| 18:34.53 | halin | and PATH |
| 18:35.04 | halin | it is not able to proceed even there |
| 18:35.35 | Sc0rpius | did you actually read what SpeedEvil said? |
| 18:35.49 | Sc0rpius | you cannot have ant under MyDocs |
| 18:36.22 | halin | Sc0rpius: ok, so I should firs copy it to /home/user and then run it ? |
| 18:36.54 | Jaffa | Anyone got anything interesting for http://www.mwkn.net/ this week? |
| 18:36.57 | Sc0rpius | that's what I would od |
| 18:37.00 | Sc0rpius | do |
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| 18:44.45 | halin | Sc0rpius: when I do mv /home/user/MyDocs/apache-ant-1.8.2 to /home/user it says "Operation not permitted" |
| 18:46.39 | halin | ls in Xterminal shows this: MyDocs apache-ant-1.8.2 |
| 18:48.56 | halin | But stilll I get the same error that ANT_HOME not found |
| 18:49.07 | halin | Sc0rpius: Am I doing something now ? |
| 18:49.13 | halin | Sc0rpius: Am I doing something wrong now ? |
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| 18:55.27 | halin | Sc0rpius: SpeedEvil Can I also not run executables from /user/home |
| 18:55.29 | halin | ? |
| 18:55.37 | halin | */home/user |
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| 19:02.50 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: faintly. Brilliant Mr. jacekowski checked serial protocol of multibutton headsets for DocScrutinizer, so we got a clue now how to finally support those on N900. Nevertheless info from Nokia regarding specific format/codes on that interface much appreciated and asked for |
| 19:03.21 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if that's a mini news or just <yawn> |
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| 19:05.28 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Ta. Any appropriate URL? |
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| 19:07.14 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-04-03.log.html#t2011-04-03T13:19:59 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-04-03.log.html#t2011-04-03T13:43:07 ff |
| 19:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1093 |
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| 19:11.16 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, so it just uses GND? |
| 19:11.40 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sorry, didn't get that |
| 19:11.58 | MohammadAG | grounding voltage |
| 19:12.55 | DocScrutinizer | yes, it's a wire with a pullup R, plus two IO that swtich between pulling down the wire to GND for sending and listening to voltage for RX |
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| 19:13.23 | memouser | hi people, good nights |
| 19:13.33 | *** join/#maemo buntfalke (~nobody@unaffiliated/buntfalke) |
| 19:14.26 | memouser | i have one question, when use micro browser and store flash cache with tempy, in large videos more of 15 minuts the browser fail |
| 19:14.39 | memouser | can i change cache for more large videos ? |
| 19:17.14 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: there's also some thread about pushbutton on hs to skip to next track on mediaplayer, but I can't find it. Some of the later posts there by me are to that topic as well |
| 19:17.37 | DocScrutinizer | thread on tmo :-) |
| 19:18.23 | MohammadAG | sec, I have that somewhere |
| 19:18.35 | MohammadAG | it's something about jack bias |
| 19:18.41 | MohammadAG | whatever that is |
| 19:19.58 | MohammadAG | found it |
| 19:19.59 | MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=659580&postcount=80 |
| 19:24.07 | SpeedEvil | jack bias is the voltage that is applied to the headset hack to make it able to heatr stuff on hte mic |
| 19:24.19 | SpeedEvil | And as a side-effect - be able to report button presses. |
| 19:25.27 | GAN900 | Jaffa, time to start soapboxing for padding? |
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| 19:35.39 | joejoe | hi, i have broken touch screen on my n900. It is possible to make backup from terminal? |
| 19:38.38 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=799047#post799047 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=951162#post951162 |
| 19:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: thanks |
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| 19:42.23 | joejoe | it is possible to perform backup only from command line? |
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| 20:01.27 | DocScrutinizer | joejoe: I think yes, it should. I seem to recall I knew how to do it (some dbus call, or parameters on calling backup app as cmd) as I pondered to do backups automatically via cronjob aka alarmed. Alas I have to confess I never got to really set up things like that and I forgot about details |
| 20:02.32 | DocScrutinizer | s/like that/that way/ |
| 20:02.57 | N900n00byy | hi i think i did something wrong. my whole menu looks fu**ed up... i see stuff like stab_me_bt where there was ocne just bluetooth connection. what happend ? |
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| 20:04.25 | Veggen | N900noobyy: did you deinstall som translations? |
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| 20:15.13 | n900n00byy | sorry, had to reconect |
| 20:17.06 | DocScrutinizer | you messed up (moved/deleted/uninstalled) some localization files |
| 20:17.40 | DocScrutinizer | or the LOCALE/LANG setting itself |
| 20:18.05 | DocScrutinizer | first you might try to select another language in settings |
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| 20:19.14 | DocScrutinizer | then, if that doesn't help, you probably want to ask timeless_wp7 how to fix the messed up .po files |
| 20:22.17 | n900n00byy | thx DocScrutinizer, but this did not help :( where should be the locale/lang folder ? |
| 20:23.11 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/share/locale |
| 20:24.41 | n900n00byy | lol k, this folder does not exits anymore. dont know why. |
| 20:25.39 | DocScrutinizer | so you're in trouble |
| 20:25.52 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest flashing rootfs |
| 20:26.16 | n900n00byy | damn, looks like |
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| 20:26.19 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: bad news |
| 20:26.23 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's not going to work |
| 20:26.29 | DocScrutinizer | thnen restore all apps from backup app |
| 20:26.35 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: Vbias on N900 is only 2-2.5V |
| 20:26.44 | DocScrutinizer | :-O |
| 20:26.49 | jacekowski | not 3.3 as on n95 |
| 20:26.55 | jacekowski | 2.5 with nothing connected |
| 20:26.56 | DocScrutinizer | and how much does that sh*t need? |
| 20:26.57 | jacekowski | 2V on load |
| 20:27.04 | DocScrutinizer | ugh |
| 20:27.06 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: N95 provides 3.3 |
| 20:27.27 | DocScrutinizer | WTF?! |
| 20:27.46 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 20:27.47 | DocScrutinizer | I'll compare N95 and N900 circuit around micbias |
| 20:27.47 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, can you check a different device? |
| 20:27.50 | jacekowski | wait |
| 20:27.55 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 20:28.01 | jacekowski | emm |
| 20:28.01 | jacekowski | no |
| 20:28.08 | jacekowski | i looked at it incorrectl |
| 20:28.17 | DocScrutinizer | a lot of micbias sources have selectable / configurable voltage |
| 20:28.31 | jacekowski | it is 2.5V on n95 |
| 20:28.56 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 20:29.07 | MohammadAG | one question though, the N95 was the first device with TV-out, you sure it's for the buttons and not that? |
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| 20:29.18 | DocScrutinizer | but 3.3V would be quite a bit too hig for that OMFG specs |
| 20:29.38 | jacekowski | i think that 3.3V i had came from my pc micbias |
| 20:29.45 | jacekowski | that i was measuring |
| 20:29.47 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: AV doesn't need DC |
| 20:30.39 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what about its detection? |
| 20:30.50 | MohammadAG | or is that done with the 4th pin? |
| 20:30.53 | jacekowski | that's a good question |
| 20:30.59 | jacekowski | how is that done |
| 20:31.15 | DocScrutinizer | detection is via mic as well, but that'S same thing - micbias |
| 20:31.19 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: do you have a scope? |
| 20:31.36 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: have you looked at files i've sent you |
| 20:31.50 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and do you know that oo.o can do graphs as well |
| 20:31.51 | SpeedEvil | For these frequencies - audio card line in would work OK |
| 20:32.18 | jacekowski | it's square wave |
| 20:32.27 | jacekowski | and sound card i bet has low pass filter |
| 20:32.28 | DocScrutinizer | well, I always thought I sometimes heard a tiny click when I pressed button of mubu-hs plugged to N900. According to the diagrams it's a real thing |
| 20:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yes |
| 20:32.45 | DocScrutinizer | and yes |
| 20:32.55 | MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> detection is via mic as well, but that'S same thing - micbias <-- so doesn't it need VBUS? |
| 20:33.04 | DocScrutinizer | you've seen my battery charge graph done in ooo? |
| 20:33.10 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, I'm assuming you mean an oscilloscope, if so, nope, I'm no EE, yet |
| 20:33.19 | DocScrutinizer | VBUS? |
| 20:33.28 | MohammadAG | err, voltage |
| 20:33.33 | DocScrutinizer | VBUS is a USB thing |
| 20:33.39 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: no |
| 20:33.42 | MohammadAG | sorry, got used to hostmode discussions when talking about voltage |
| 20:34.04 | DocScrutinizer | yes,it is using same micbias voltage that's supposed to be 2..2.8V via 2kR |
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| 20:34.20 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 20:34.22 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 20:34.40 | jacekowski | i have an idea |
| 20:35.07 | jacekowski | i'll play with my AWG tomorrow |
| 20:35.08 | DocScrutinizer | http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf |
| 20:35.13 | jacekowski | and maybe i can talk to it |
| 20:35.18 | jacekowski | with just that |
| 20:35.19 | DocScrutinizer | AWG? |
| 20:35.27 | jacekowski | arbitrary waveform generator |
| 20:35.31 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 20:36.17 | DocScrutinizer | but you'd probably want to duplicate the exact bit pattern that gets sent to hs by device to start session |
| 20:36.31 | DocScrutinizer | it's for sure not only a freq burst |
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| 20:36.45 | DocScrutinizer | it's a sort of cmd or at least sync byte |
| 20:37.14 | jacekowski | no need |
| 20:37.20 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 20:37.26 | jacekowski | when i unplugged and plugged hs from my extension cable |
| 20:37.35 | DocScrutinizer | yeah? |
| 20:37.36 | jacekowski | it talked to phone for a lot shorter period of time |
| 20:37.47 | jacekowski | than when i plugged it in and out of phone |
| 20:38.05 | jacekowski | so it looks like hs just expects any valid communication |
| 20:38.15 | DocScrutinizer | I meant that initial 8bit(?) burst sent from device to hs after hs said "click" |
| 20:39.02 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 20:39.51 | DocScrutinizer | the burst from ~5..~10 on time in http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1093 |
| 20:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | you need to duplicate that |
| 20:40.08 | DocScrutinizer | I guess |
| 20:40.40 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 20:40.53 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I asked if you think it's exact enough in your diagrams so I can "decode" |
| 20:41.25 | DocScrutinizer | a new diagram with a time base 10 times faster would help a lot |
| 20:41.55 | yourself | I love the N900 |
| 20:41.57 | DocScrutinizer | just showing this initial burst, and maybe the leading click |
| 20:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | also comparing first dev-orig burst and hs-answer with second one would be really interesting |
| 20:43.53 | *** part/#maemo Omegamoon (~egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 20:43.54 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf |
| 20:44.15 | jacekowski | ehh |
| 20:44.18 | jacekowski | use civilised format |
| 20:44.21 | jacekowski | doc or docs |
| 20:44.22 | jacekowski | docx |
| 20:44.33 | jacekowski | not something i can't open |
| 20:44.42 | DocScrutinizer | that's a diagram in ooo |
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| 20:52.32 | kwtm | Hi. Need help with usb networking. The wiki on maemo.org is unclear: it says "You can also add the following lines to set the default route correctly " Does this mean it's optional, or I NEED to add the following lines? This is referring to "up route del default" and "up route add default gw 192.168.2.14" |
| 20:53.16 | BCMM | kwtm: do you want to talk to the internet, or just to the machine on the other end of the cable? |
| 20:53.42 | BCMM | btw, would you mind linking that wiki page? |
| 20:53.57 | BCMM | i haven't had it set up nicely since i last flashed |
| 20:53.57 | kwtm | BCMM: Just the machine. I plan to use fish:/ as a file transfer protocol. (Also being able to ssh into the N900 would be nice when I'm not able to have both machines connect to the same router.) |
| 20:54.08 | DocScrutinizer | depends if some other mechanism did the route setup for you previously. Just check route with `route`, and add the route as suggested if it's not yet there |
| 20:54.20 | kwtm | I guess an easy ... ah, thanks DocScrutinizer |
| 20:54.21 | BCMM | kwtm: you don't need the route then |
| 20:54.33 | BCMM | kwtm: btw, sftp:// should perform better |
| 20:54.47 | BCMM | (provided you've got an openssh server. won't work with dropbear.) |
| 20:55.01 | kwtm | BCMM: I've had bad luck with sftp://, and now all my scripts have standardized on fish:// |
| 20:55.09 | BCMM | ok |
| 20:55.18 | BCMM | using what software, btw? |
| 20:56.09 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Ok, $(route) is blank. So I guess I need to add the route. But right now "ifconfig usb0" (as root) does not even show an IP address even though it says "RUNNING". Is this a problem or will the "route" add in the IP address? |
| 20:56.31 | kwtm | BCMM: You mean to ssh? Well, commandline (OpenSSH), rsync -e ssh, KDE Kparts, etc. |
| 20:56.44 | BCMM | kwtm: i mean, what fish client |
| 20:56.50 | BCMM | ah, kioslaves |
| 20:57.00 | kwtm | Also, what's the difference between "sudo gainroot" and "root"? |
| 20:57.01 | DocScrutinizer | no, you need to have proper IP addr for NIC prior to setting up route |
| 20:57.04 | BCMM | (kparts aren't the bits that handle the transfer protocols) |
| 20:57.11 | kwtm | BCMM: Well, there's also mc (midnight commander) |
| 20:57.30 | BCMM | kwtm: iirc, they've fixed the sftp:// ioslave in the next version of kde |
| 20:57.53 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, how does that work? Does my laptop need to have a DHCP server? I see the default is 192.168.2.15 for the N900 and .14 for the laptop, but does the laptop know that? |
| 20:58.14 | DocScrutinizer | sftp:// works just fine here (not tested via USB but that shouldn't matter) |
| 20:58.26 | kwtm | BCMM: I'm afraid I haven't placed much faith in "the next version of KDE" ... but anyway, fish:// seems to be a good common denominator and all my scripts from KDE3 are using fish. |
| 20:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | no, your desktop doesn't know that magically |
| 20:58.50 | kwtm | (note: I'm using KDE4 ... but only have time to migrate what I need.) |
| 20:58.52 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 20:59.00 | DocScrutinizer | you should config the NIC with ifconfig |
| 20:59.21 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Are you referring to my laptop or the N900? ("you should config the NIC with ifconfig") |
| 20:59.39 | DocScrutinizer | btw on your PC you don't need a route set for the USB nic, unless you want to access internet via N900 modem |
| 20:59.47 | kwtm | I mean, my laptop is already assigned a (different , I might add) IP address already. |
| 21:00.04 | BCMM | kwtm: huh? |
| 21:00.27 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-45-121.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 21:00.39 | DocScrutinizer | I'm using Konqui all the time to access sftp://root@N900 |
| 21:00.53 | kwtm | Hmm... you seem to be implying that the laptop's interfaces can each have a different IP address, and I do seem to recall that it can be connected wireless and wired with two different IP addresses. So the USB connection itself will be assigned another IP address, and I just tell my laptop what it is, and it'll start responding from the USB? |
| 21:01.11 | BCMM | kwtm: i dunno, just saw that it was mentioned in the kde commit digest. don't actually know what they changed. |
| 21:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: your laptop probably has TWO NICs |
| 21:01.31 | BCMM | kwtm: yeah, different interfaces do typically have different IP addresses |
| 21:01.39 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Glad to hear that sftp:// is working. Right now it would not be feasible for me to change all my scripts, though, and they seem to be working otherwise. |
| 21:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | one default eth0 or whatever, plus the USB |
| 21:01.58 | BCMM | kwtm: yeah, fish:// will work fine; just perform slightly less well |
| 21:03.30 | BCMM | fish only requires standard utilities; i.e. it's basically just running cat on the server for you |
| 21:04.04 | BCMM | and sftp uses an extension to the ssh protocol especially for this sort of thing |
| 21:04.29 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 21:04.36 | DocScrutinizer | ~wtf fish |
| 21:05.08 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: the fish:// protocol... |
| 21:05.18 | DocScrutinizer | got that much |
| 21:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | nfc |
| 21:05.36 | DocScrutinizer | smells ;-P |
| 21:05.36 | BCMM | nfc about what? |
| 21:05.54 | DocScrutinizer | never heard about digital fish |
| 21:06.04 | kwtm | Does that mean I need to put "auto usb0 ;iface usb0 inet static ; address 192.168.2.15 ;netmask 255.255.255.0; gateway 192.168.2.14" and all that into the laptop /etc/network/interfaces file, too? |
| 21:06.04 | DocScrutinizer | except for friggin crypted IRC |
| 21:06.06 | BCMM | like i said, it's like SFTP, but without special server-side support |
| 21:06.36 | BCMM | so it's just logging in with ssh and running commands at a shell for you |
| 21:06.52 | kwtm | fish:// is FIle over SsH transfer --basically, it just logs into a shell and then sends files by doing real shell commands like "cat >filename". Available anywhere you can get a shell prompt. |
| 21:06.56 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: Too? not exactly. Only there |
| 21:07.49 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: By "too" I mean that the N900 already has this in /etc/network/interfaces. But my laptop does not. So this should be reproduced at the laptop end also, and then I reboot? (or kill 1 or whatever the politically correct thing to do is) |
| 21:07.56 | DocScrutinizer | on N900 it at least should look marginally different |
| 21:08.36 | kwtm | that was copied directly from the N900 file. How should it be modified for the laptop? Oh... address is .14 instead of .15. But what's the "gateway"? |
| 21:09.27 | DocScrutinizer | there's no need for a gateway,unless you expect the far end to forward packets to 3rd party (aka internet) for you |
| 21:10.03 | kwtm | Ohh.. it says "you need to install usb-network-modules". The very last sentence of the first section. mentioned almost as an afterthought. I suppose this means it's actually the essential key without which everything else will fail? :) |
| 21:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | but better ask BCMM - I'm not very used to this stuff |
| 21:10.53 | DocScrutinizer | rarely do it |
| 21:11.03 | *** join/#maemo khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-168-252.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | so I might be rong |
| 21:11.08 | khertan | Hello |
| 21:11.08 | DocScrutinizer | wrong even |
| 21:11.15 | BCMM | kwtm: what distro are you on? |
| 21:11.29 | BCMM | iirc, ubuntu already has USB networking drivers |
| 21:11.38 | khertan | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/Pygments_1.4-3/ someone understand what is the problem ? |
| 21:12.37 | kwtm | BCMM: Kubuntu 10.04 LTS, but I was hoping I could get this done for WinXP also (that's of secondary importance). |
| 21:12.53 | BCMM | can't remember what USB networking in windows is like |
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| 21:13.55 | BCMM | it would be cool if there was some kind of GUI to enable usb networking, configure the interface, and run a DHCP server so that almost any computer, no matter how stupid, would get a working connection... |
| 21:14.19 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: iirc on windows it's called ipconfig, not ifconfig ;-D |
| 21:14.39 | BCMM | khertan: illegal character `P' - are upper-case letters allowed? |
| 21:14.45 | kwtm | Ok, so I'm going to install usb-network-modules, then ... unless someone here says that's not the right thing to do. |
| 21:14.47 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: also, it doesn't work. |
| 21:14.52 | BCMM | other than that, almost the same, |
| 21:15.06 | khertan | BCMM, ? oh ... The name of the package |
| 21:15.08 | khertan | thx ;) |
| 21:15.23 | BCMM | khertan: np |
| 21:15.29 | khertan | BCMM, there is an app nammed Mad Developper (works on unix and seven) |
| 21:15.37 | khertan | ms windows seven |
| 21:15.38 | khertan | à |
| 21:15.39 | khertan | ;à |
| 21:15.42 | khertan | :) |
| 21:15.50 | DocScrutinizer | khertan: also, is that a spece in there? |
| 21:15.54 | BCMM | i've just been using scratchbox and testing with scp |
| 21:15.55 | DocScrutinizer | space* |
| 21:16.14 | khertan | a space ? |
| 21:16.20 | BCMM | ssh connection sharing is cool |
| 21:16.36 | DocScrutinizer | *s_1.4* |
| 21:16.39 | BCMM | (scp is practically instantaneous is it can re-use an existing ssh connection) |
| 21:16.43 | BCMM | s/is/if/ |
| 21:16.44 | DocScrutinizer | *s 1.4* |
| 21:16.53 | BCMM | curses. |
| 21:17.01 | BCMM | no i didn't, infobot. |
| 21:17.25 | BCMM | a robot is being sarcastic about my sed. |
| 21:17.46 | khertan | yep the setup file use was the wrong ... so truncated version number too :à |
| 21:17.48 | khertan | :) |
| 21:18.03 | khertan | python-pygments_1.4.0-1 should be better |
| 21:18.21 | kwtm | abc bcd testing infobot |
| 21:18.25 | kwtm | s/c/C/2 |
| 21:18.43 | kwtm | Ok, fine, infobot, you can ignore me. :( |
| 21:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | infobot ignores all malformed s/x/y/ |
| 21:19.30 | DocScrutinizer | s/igno/xxx/. |
| 21:19.31 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: It's not *malformed*. It's just *too advanced for infobot*. <grump!> |
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| 21:19.42 | DocScrutinizer | s/igno/xxx/ |
| 21:19.51 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 21:20.07 | khertan | [extras-builds] [fremantle]: python-pygments 1.4.0-1 OK << thx BCMM |
| 21:20.07 | khertan | :à |
| 21:20.23 | kwtm | aaa testing infobot |
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| 21:20.24 | kwtm | s/a/A/ |
| 21:20.25 | khertan | grr i didn't like this n130 netbook keyboard |
| 21:20.26 | kwtm | s/a/A/ |
| 21:20.35 | khertan | :à |
| 21:20.38 | BCMM | heh, i've never even used builder |
| 21:20.39 | kwtm | Ok, so it's not cumulative. |
| 21:20.44 | khertan | s/à/)/ |
| 21:20.56 | BCMM | aaa |
| 21:21.05 | BCMM | s/a/A/g |
| 21:21.13 | BCMM | ah, he does do that. |
| 21:21.22 | kwtm | Yeah, it's just /g or nothing. |
| 21:21.51 | khertan | it s a test ... test |
| 21:21.59 | khertan | s/*/A/g |
| 21:22.02 | kwtm | s/o\(.\)/-\1O\1/ |
| 21:22.09 | khertan | s/.*/A/g |
| 21:22.10 | kwtm | Hah! |
| 21:22.25 | khertan | :) |
| 21:23.43 | kwtm | Ok, so ... having usb-network-utilities doesn't seem to help. Both the laptop and the N900 show usb0 as "UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST" but neither has an IP address. |
| 21:24.08 | kwtm | when BCMM said "already has usb drivers", does that mean (just to confirm) I do NOT need to modify /etc/network/interfaces on my laptop? |
| 21:24.28 | kwtm | Because I am not sure what my next step should be. |
| 21:24.28 | DocScrutinizer | forget it, she's not acting on anything except s/x/y/ and s/x/y/g |
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| 21:25.44 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Is there any difference between "root" and "sudo gainroot"? I used the former to become root and do the "ifconfig usb0 up" command --I don't think it matters but I want to be sure. |
| 21:26.10 | DocScrutinizer | yes, root is a full login, while sudo gainroot simply changes user |
| 21:26.22 | DocScrutinizer | without changing anything regarding env |
| 21:26.45 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Thus anything I can do with "sudo gainroot" I can do with root, right? ... ohhh, so it's possible I changed the environment with "root", then. I still don't think it matters... |
| 21:27.04 | DocScrutinizer | yes, shouldn't matter |
| 21:27.39 | kwtm | Also, I typed "ifconfig usb0 up" and that worked, but "ifup usb0" gave an error: /usr/lib/avahi/avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh: line 143: diff: not found |
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| 21:28.44 | kwtm | It seems to have worked, though, because the second time I typed "ifup usb0" it said "already configured". Wtheck? Did someone write a script requiring a command-line utility that's not installed by default and failed to give the correct dependency? |
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| 21:30.32 | DocScrutinizer | try a simple ifconfig usb0 addr 56.32.3.775 |
| 21:30.53 | DocScrutinizer | when I see avahi I get goosepimples |
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| 21:31.19 | DocScrutinizer | my lennart allergy |
| 21:31.45 | kwtm | I can try any arbitrary IP addr, right? I might as well try something on 192.168.x.x to see if it will connect that way... |
| 21:32.12 | BCMM | kwtm: my advice: don't argue with your router. |
| 21:32.36 | kwtm | BCMM: ?? Not sure what that means. I have been treating my router with the utmost respect. How is it related to what we're doing? |
| 21:33.08 | BCMM | i mean, if your router's DHCP server uses 192.168.1.x, play in 192.168.2.x or something |
| 21:33.19 | BCMM | (or 10.0.0.x) |
| 21:33.37 | kwtm | BCMM: Of course. I put in 192.168.2.16 (one up from the .15 that I've been using.) My router uses 192.168.1.x |
| 21:34.00 | kwtm | So, it says "ifconfig: bad address 'addr'" Will check correct syntax of ifconfig command. |
| 21:34.29 | BCMM | (this is because your computer will have a route set up to put traffic for 192.168.1.x on the correct interface) |
| 21:34.40 | BCMM | but other than that, choice of IP address is arbitrary really |
| 21:34.45 | kwtm | I see now that it should have been ifconfig usb0 56.32.3.775 rather than ifconfig usb0 addr 56.32.3.775 |
| 21:35.05 | BCMM | that's not an IP address. |
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| 21:35.51 | kwtm | BCMM: Well, this is what I don't get: so my N900 is told that it is 192.168.2.14 (or whatever) and that the gateway is 192.168.2.15. But my laptop has no idea of this. How does it know to respond to my N900 when tne N900 asks for "the computer at 192.168.2.15"? Does the N900 tell the laptop to set up this way when it first connects via USB? |
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| 21:36.19 | kwtm | BCMM: That's the example I was given, so I'm just quoting it word for word. I am actually using 192.168.2.16 for the IP address in question. |
| 21:36.21 | BCMM | do ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.15 on the laptop? |
| 21:36.55 | BCMM | n900 puts packets on the usb interface, laptop gets them, laptop ignores them unless they're addressed to it |
| 21:37.06 | kwtm | BCMM: Ahh! So that's the question I had been asking from 30 minutes ago. Thanks for the answer. |
| 21:37.27 | BCMM | ip networking doesn't really need central organisation... |
| 21:37.43 | BCMM | kwtm: not sure i understand. |
| 21:37.53 | BCMM | i mean, i'm not even sure what i answered |
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| 21:38.29 | kwtm | BCMM: You actually didn't answer. DocScrutinizer gave an answer but I wasn't sure what he meant. My request for clarification got lost in the jumble when someone else asked for help. Glad we cleared it up. |
| 21:38.46 | kwtm | Ok, N900 now able to communicate with laptop (at least with ping). cleared a big hurdle. Thank you! |
| 21:39.05 | BCMM | i still don't really understand; but if the problem was basic IP networking, there are channels for that |
| 21:39.59 | kwtm | BCMM: To clarify (not that it's relevant any more) I did not realize what to do *to my laptop* to tell it that it should talk to the N900 over USB. It was not at all obvious from the wiki. |
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| 21:41.00 | kwtm | You know, those minor details that people leave out because they've done it so often that they've taken it for granted (and probably installed an autoconfig script) long before they've worked everything out and put things in a wiki so people can follow in their footsteps. |
| 21:41.14 | BCMM | yeah, looks like it's got a lot of distro-specific stuff rather than how to do it manually with ifconfig |
| 21:41.19 | kwtm | Speaking of which, I can't seem to change the wiki even when I log in to t.m.o. |
| 21:41.33 | BCMM | if you're on ubuntu, you can just use the debian instructions though |
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| 21:48.31 | kwtm | Success! Thank you all, especially BCMM. I am able to ssh into shell from either direction and can fish:// files to/from the N900. Thanks! |
| 21:48.40 | BCMM | have fun! |
| 21:48.59 | BCMM | fish:// (or sftp://) in konqueror is very smooth |
| 21:49.18 | BCMM | i think i only enable mass storage mode for downloading photos now |
| 21:50.04 | kwtm | Ohhh... logins at wiki.maemo.org and talk.maemo.org are separate! Ok, got it. |
| 21:54.42 | kwtm | BCMM: I haven't even enabled mass storage mode for some time now. I just do a periodic rsync over the network. So when I'm off vacationing and I want to make sure the video of my toddler makes it back to the home server even if the N900 gets stolen, I just call my rsync script. :) |
| 21:55.25 | kwtm | BCMM: Hey, can you interpret this for me? (I'm editing the wiki now.) "With this default configuration, the N900 USB interface will have the IP address 192.168.2.15, and the remote end will have the IP address 192.168.2.14." This is ambiguous: the "remote end" --does that mean (in my case) the laptop? |
| 21:55.43 | BCMM | kwtm: i shoot a crapload of raw (DNG) photographs with fcamera |
| 21:56.26 | BCMM | i mean, i take several shots when i take a photo, and weed out the bad ones on my desktop with the benifit of a proper screen |
| 21:56.26 | kwtm | BCMM: Well, nothing takes up as much memory as a video, I'm afraid ... especially when you record for 5-10 minutes waiting for the little tyke to "do that little cute thing you just did again" |
| 21:56.58 | kwtm | BCMM: Although I agree that you want to transfer those over USB, not some 2.5G cellular connection, if you want to edit them. |
| 21:57.15 | BCMM | i kinda want to investigate how fast a really minimal camera application could start |
| 21:57.26 | BCMM | i mean, if you didn't even need a viewfinder |
| 21:57.42 | BCMM | for stuff like cats and children that might rapidly stop doing something amusing |
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| 22:06.23 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: mplayer tv:// takes about 0.8s before showing pictures. |
| 22:11.25 | SpeedEvil | It's more like 0.3s after opening /dev/video0 that it gets the first picture |
| 22:11.33 | SpeedEvil | It spends a while screwing around on dbus |
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| 22:47.13 | BCMM | SpeedEvil: the default camera app is always running in the background isn't it? |
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| 22:49.46 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: Sort-of. |
| 22:50.01 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: It has a daemon, then forks the actual UI I think |
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| 22:51.05 | SpeedEvil | ps|grep cam |
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| 23:06.14 | yourself | I seam to remember a way to send all my contacts through bluetooth, amd I wrong? |
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| 23:13.11 | DocScrutinizer | should work, yes |
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| 23:21.16 | yourself | If I could only just list the contacts with a phone number |
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| 23:52.14 | ArGGu^^ | Trying to build source file and deb in scratchbox |
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| 23:52.19 | ArGGu^^ | Should add devel or testing repository? |
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| 23:52.54 | ArGGu^^ | if I need newer version debhelper |
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| 23:53.24 | ArGGu^^ | or how I can make the compatibility to level 5? |
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| 23:56.33 | ArGGu^^ | found answer with google just changed the level to five from compat |
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| 23:59.03 | ovnicraft | hello the site is down ! |
