IRC log for #maemo on 20110331

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02:10.04chxhm. does skype video chat work on n800 or n810?
02:10.26Robot101chx: no, they had a stand-alone skype client with no video
02:10.35Robot101(they have no H264 encoder)
02:10.38chxAny other way to do video calls?
02:11.02Robot101yes, the built-in XMPP client has jingle video call support
02:11.11Robot101however you can only call to people with H263
02:11.20Robot101which is... rare - google video call uses H264 for example
02:11.29chxI have Linux.
02:11.46chxThat means I should have every possible program in existence, lol
02:12.03Robot101it should work with Empathy on the desktop provided you install gstreamer-ffmpeg plugins with h263 enabled
02:12.27Robot101it might have bitrotted though, since for a couple of years everyone will have been testing with H264
02:12.41chxHm
02:12.52chxThen maybe two N810 tablets is the best?
02:13.04Robot101the breakage will be on the Empathy end though, we made it nice and reliable in the N800 and N810 OSes
02:13.13Robot101that should definitely work, yes
02:13.29Robot101but if Empathy is broken then you should be able to ask on #telepathy or #farsight for help fixing it
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02:14.31chxI want to make it easier for my brother to put my 2yrs old nephew on a video call. I am quite a bit far but I truly adore the little guy. Having a webcam is not the best. I was thinking on a tablet that we could hand over to the lil' one.
02:14.58Robot101:D
02:15.04chxI was even thinking, you know, maybe a cheap Android tablet, could even play games, but it seems the price for these things are not yet in the range where you'd hand it to a 2yr old.
02:15.25Robot101so I'll warn you, the quality on the N810 video call isn't amazing
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02:15.42Robot101there's quite a low resolution because of CPU limitation
02:15.57Robot101the video accelerator in the OMAP2 didn't have any linux drivers
02:16.03Robot101so it's doing encoding and decoding on software :(
02:16.04chxor, i have not seen an Android tablet made by Panasonic or Lenovo -- if there'd be I would buy in a heartbeat if they'd be similar to their laptops, a 2yr old does not have the strenght  to break either
02:16.23chxi dunno, your run-of-the-mill webcam isnt terribly high res either
02:16.37Robot101lenovo build quality is going very bad in my experience, my T410s has a screen defect after 1 month
02:16.49Robot101and my last X200s screen died too
02:17.18chxreally? i have a t400s that survied everything and my bro is using T series since the dawn of time.
02:17.27chxand I just bought a t420 :)
02:17.32Robot101so, newer ones suck more...? :/
02:17.58Robot101I have a 2 inch wide vertical stripe of random colours which appeared about a third of the way along my screen
02:18.02Robot101it's... really annoying
02:18.04chxoh THAT one!
02:18.21chxhttp://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/t410s-vertical-band-in-my-LCD/td-p/245040 is this your problem?
02:18.29Robot101it used to come and go, pinching the screen at the bottom used to fix it
02:18.37Robot101but now its here to syau
02:18.40Robot101*stay
02:19.15chxhttp://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-76367
02:19.45chxCall Lenovo, they know about it
02:20.17Robot101and yeah it's that problem
02:20.41chxit's so well known they have a page about it.
02:20.46Robot101I've been travelling the past 2 weeks so never had any time I wanted to send off my computer or wait on-site for a repair
02:21.03Robot101I tried to find a place in SF who would do a walk-in warranty repair as I know LCD replacement is easy
02:21.45Robot101but, well, their list of places in SF was useless - one of them was gone and a the number rang through to a recruitment agency, the other didn't do lenovo repairs, and the third was just a dead number
02:21.49Robot101I gave up
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02:26.01chxsomewhat sad
02:26.17chxstill, these kinds of problems alas reach every manufacturer
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02:26.50chxto me this looks like a soldering defect where the ribbon cable reaches the lcd but i might be totally wrong -- it might be a soldering diefect elsewhere :)
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04:28.04ZogGi <3 maemo every day more and more
04:28.15ZogGi ♥* maemo every day more and more
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04:35.11pupnikis frustrated by segfault on n900 which doesn't appear on x86
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05:45.15ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/samsung_imitating_sony/ <-- haha
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05:55.44ruskiehttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Hercules-eCAF-Slim-HD-and-EX-HD/ <-- cute
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06:03.09pupnikmornin ruskie
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06:05.54pupnikhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/29/google_android_and_the_linux_headers/   hmm
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06:21.08keithzgOne one hand, I think (especially since the original story came from a guy with previous ties to Microsoft) the whole thing is just FUD.
06:22.09keithzgOn the other hand, if Google gets bit in an ironic twist outcome of their attempt to "keep GPL out of user space" it kindof serves them right.
06:22.39keithzgAnd then on the third hand, it had been a few years since some real, substantial FUD was flying around, it's nicely nostalgic :)
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06:24.29krayonWhy didn't anyone ask him if it was public record etc etc, WHY did he remove it a week before?
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06:25.28keithzgCertainly doesn't give the impression of someone with nothing to hide, eh? But if they invalidate his claims by nailing him on that question, then there's no news story left.
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06:31.31krayonThe sad part is, if he HADN'T they wouldn't listen at all, just saying "oh well, OBVIOUSLY he's just saying it for MS"
06:31.59krayonHim being involved with them doesn't mean he's not right, but yeah, trying to hide it (and not getting away with it) looks worse.
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06:51.53pupnikyep yep
06:52.00pupnikagrees with keithzg and krayon
06:52.17pupnikwell i have a workaround for this game and the tiny (!) n900 screen
06:52.31pupnikwee
06:52.33ds3pupnik: got a work around for chording keys on the n900?
06:52.42pupnikwhat's the problem ds3 ?
06:52.49krayonpupnik: What game?
06:52.54pupnikdaimonin
06:53.31ds3pupnik: stella... I can't chord keys so it makes it a bit tricky to play some games (i.e. can't fire and move)
06:54.15pupnikds3: you mean you cannot fire and move at the same time?
06:54.44pupniki thought n900 supported multiple keypresses
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06:56.35krayonI've not had any issues related to multi-key press
06:57.12krayonI at least press 2/3 at a time using my Game Gripper
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06:59.48krayonpupnik: Thanks, gonna try this out :)
06:59.59krayonNow, off 'ome...
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07:00.29ds3pupnik: yep
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07:00.41ds3more specifically, I can't jump and move. makes it hard to play pitfall :D
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07:02.47pupnikds3: who is the stella porter?
07:03.06ds3pupnik: you
07:03.25pupnikyou're using that old thing :/
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07:03.32ds3at least you gave me the link to the deb; it was for the N8xx and I had to force install it
07:03.38ds3is there a newer/better one?
07:03.49pupniki just sort of assumed there would be
07:04.23ds3heh... I think I pestered you about it enough that you gave me the link to that old one
07:04.47pupniki am sorry, that does suck
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07:05.24pupnikmaybe there's a quick fix ds3
07:05.30ds3=)
07:06.57ds3it really does burn power though
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07:22.22pupnikds3: perhaps there's a more optimized emulator available?
07:23.02ds3pupnik: not for the 2600 hardware
07:23.36pupnikds3: i thought you could emulate that with a lego set by now
07:23.52ds3I do wonder if a USB keyboard/mouse would do better... but that takes some setup
07:24.01ds3it isn't that primative of a chip!!
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07:25.42ds3that thing has to sync video on a very primative way
07:27.50pupnikahh yes scanline
07:28.03crashanddie"in" and "primitive"
07:28.05pupnikthey didn't have enough memory for a full bitmap
07:29.00pupnik4197 tiles converted
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07:32.59arcoldo somebody know how could I disable editing the desktop (on maemo) by longpressing the display
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07:33.20phaphello
07:33.21zalebHay phap leuk dat je wat zegt
07:33.21arcolit just misalign very often my desktop while the phone is in the pocket
07:33.37phapzaleb, I don't understand sorry
07:37.56dubfunkedhe thinks you're dutch
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07:57.59crashanddiezaleb, english please
07:59.45ds3>
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08:02.18crashanddiewoops
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08:14.32phapwell anyway
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08:15.22phapI think I'm dreaming but is there anybody who knows how to display only the album art which is currently playing with media player on the desktop with a simple command?
08:15.39phapor relative simple?
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08:22.59chem|stDocScrutinizer: did you mean that maemo-tvout-control?
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08:39.01keithzgphap: the closed source nature of the default media player makes such things far harder than they should be :(
08:40.39lcukphap, keithzg :) there is an open source media player in production
08:41.01lcuka rewrite of the UI using Qt and talking to the MAFW backend (just like the original one) :)
08:41.42keithzgnice; yet another reason I gotta get myself a backup N900 just in case, haha, it just keeps getting better.
08:42.48phapI hope it's coming soon then
08:43.22phapI tried to compile the media player widget but could'nt
08:43.29phap*from source
08:43.35lcukcrashanddie, could you perhaps guide these restless souls towards the TMO thread?
08:46.43crashanddielcuk? Sorry?
08:46.53crashanddiewhat am I, the doorman?
08:48.00chem|stphap: the mediaplayer gets a cssu relplacement some time
08:48.34chem|stcrashanddie: you look more like a chef, may i have breakfast then?
08:48.42chem|st^^
08:48.56phapI hope it'll be customizable
08:49.10lcukcrashanddie, I mistakenly thought you would know which thread it was on since you were hacking around with it yourself :P
08:49.15*** mode/#maemo [+q *!*@svn.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] by ChanServ
08:49.23crashanddiestuffs chem|st's face full with eggs
08:49.27crashanddieHAHA! Can't talk!
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08:49.40chem|stI guess it will be open source
08:49.58crashanddielcuk, I've been on TMO once in the last year or so :P
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09:12.48ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/31/microsoft_google_monopoly/ <-- haha
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10:04.16cmantitoout of curiosity, has anyone had any luck with MfE + Exch 2010?
10:07.15timeless_w7ipcmantito: i think nokia is using it
10:07.33timeless_w7ipwhich would give a fairly sizable userbase
10:08.10cmantitohmm
10:08.55cmantitoI had it working with Exch 07, but when I try to use it with Exch 2010 it just will not connect, it's quite strange.
10:09.18timeless_w7ipyou'd have to tell me how to figure out if i'm using 2010 :)
10:09.25timeless_w7ipi know we got a visual refresh for OWA
10:09.45timeless_w7ipwhich basically made OWA work in Firefox and other non IE browsers
10:10.30cmantitois it yellowish now? :P
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10:11.36timeless_w7ipyeah
10:11.39timeless_w7ipit used to be blue
10:11.46cmantitothat's 2010 then
10:12.02timeless_w7ipis rather amused
10:12.15timeless_w7ipsuch a simple, convenient, efficient and effective version test
10:12.35cmantitohaha
10:12.35cmantitoyeah
10:12.49timeless_w7ipscores +1 to the ms ui team
10:13.04timeless_w7iplcuk: no greetings?
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10:13.47timeless_w7ipoh, on the subject of UI/UX
10:14.00timeless_w7ipcmantito: ... what do you do outside of #maemo?
10:14.07timeless_w7ipis looking for someone to bumble through a web site
10:14.13timeless_w7ipdefine:  to bumble
10:14.21Jadehi
10:14.33cmantitotimeless_w7ip, I do a lot of things, could you be more specific? :)
10:14.37timeless_w7ip... to wander aimlessly through, accidentally tripping on things, stumbling over things, bumping into things, and crying "ouch"
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10:14.55timeless_w7ipcmantito: mxr.maemo.org / mxr.meego.com are web sites
10:15.14timeless_w7ipbut they until this morning had a link on their main page which led to a page which always generated errors
10:15.30timeless_w7ipthe code to lead to that path was probably 5-10 years old
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10:15.52timeless_w7ipbut people didn't effectively communicate this to me, so i didn't realize what was going wrong / fix it :(
10:16.47timeless_w7ipif you could look at the site and suggest ways to improve it, that'd be wonderful :)
10:17.17timeless_w7ipi'm thinking that perhaps the content area on the right should be moved into an "about.html" page leaving only the box on the left
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10:26.13cmantitotimeless_w7ip, ok when I get some time I'll take a look
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10:30.47timeless_w7ipthanks
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11:20.12DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: prepare for a lot of 'ouch' and crying. mxr always exposed ... issues... to me
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11:23.15lcukooh DocScrutinizer really, like what?
11:23.56DocScrutinizermostly search not working like expected
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11:24.26lcukmece, yes you are.
11:24.58DocScrutinizerbut that changed several times during last maybe 6 months, so I'm not sure what's status now
11:25.12lcukDocScrutinizer, curious, whenever I have had to dig around found mxr to be closest to old offline tool I used to use in Windows days
11:25.28lcukbut anything has potential glitches
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11:34.22DocScrutinizeras has my knowledge about how to use this tool properly, e.g. I'm not sure if it's mxr's fault or mine, when I miss the "defined at:" proper reference and only several 'referenced at:" hits are displayed
11:36.35DocScrutinizermight easily be my poor understanding of complex c code and how it works
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11:51.38Termanagood morning
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11:56.25DocScrutinizergood moaning
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11:59.01DocScrutinizer[2011-03-31 01:31:12] <chem|st> and TVout
11:59.16DocScrutinizerchem|st: no idea what *I* meant
12:01.42DocScrutinizer[2011-03-31 04:10:38] <chx> Any other way to do video calls?  --- SIP can do video calls, at least it offers and tries to establish - never had a chance to test it due to missing peer/account with same properties
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12:07.11DocScrutinizerchx^zzz: (tough devices) panasonic toughbook. The 'old' ones (c-27 e.g.) are cheapish on ebay. You can't destroy them by running over them with a van
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12:14.57DocScrutinizerbuilt to military standards (and that's probably where majority of used ones comes from)
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12:21.19chem|stDocScrutinizer: was about mirroring Xdisplay
12:21.41DocScrutinizerchem|st: no idea. Heard xrandr can do it
12:22.35chem|stbut we only have xserver xtensions but no program makeing use of it
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12:23.18DocScrutinizerI searched for jebba's repository of 34711 debian pkkgs compiled under SB/fremantle, but couldn't find it anymore
12:23.39Macerwell
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12:23.58Macerg2 doesnt stall out on the tmob connection like the n900 does
12:24.01chem|stthat was what I was looking for too...
12:24.17Macerit seems smooth. weird
12:24.20DocScrutinizera pity
12:24.53Macerwhen my n900 switches between 2 3 and 3.5G it stalls out and i usually lose my ssh session
12:25.25Macerwonder how meego is doing
12:25.29chem|stMacer: 2 to 3 it should be normal
12:25.41chem|st3 to 3.5 depends
12:25.45Macerchem|st: i know ;)
12:26.03Macerwell. it was driving me nuts
12:26.09Macerthe n900 was dated anyways
12:26.21chem|stI stay 2g if I want a steady link
12:26.35Macerand with meego taking forever and nokia abandonment seems worthless now
12:26.36chem|stI go 3.x for fast downloads if needed
12:26.37DocScrutinizeryeah Macer, I heard there's no exact specs how 2G<->3G handover is to be handled. It's kinda of defacto standard where each side (modem manufs, carriers) tries his best, and if sth fails then each side points fingers on the other
12:26.50Macerchem|st: well. you shouldnt have to do that
12:27.11chem|stMacer: that highly depends on your operator's network
12:27.25MacerDocScrutinizer: heh. well. it seems to work in the same area just fine on the g2
12:27.37DocScrutinizerquite possible
12:27.41Macerdropping between 2 3 and 4G
12:27.47chem|stsome operators deactivate the AP handover
12:27.47Macerwithout a hiccup
12:28.02DocScrutinizermaybe the implementation in g2 and t-mo play nice together
12:28.12Macerpossibly
12:28.28DocScrutinizererrr what? 4G?
12:28.34Macerwell.... H
12:28.48Macerif you want to call that 4G
12:28.55chem|stthat is not 4g
12:29.07Macerno?
12:29.19DocScrutinizerthere's a very clear spec about what 2G 2.5, 3G and 3.5 means
12:29.28DocScrutinizer4G is LTS
12:29.50Macerrly? so why do they market it as 4G"
12:29.52DocScrutinizerwhich afaik only in sweden is used yet in small areas, for testing
12:30.04Maceri thought H was hpda
12:30.49DocScrutinizerhpda not existent. There's HS[U|D]PA
12:31.07DocScrutinizerwhich all is called 3.5G
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12:31.31DocScrutinizerto be specific this is UMTS HSPA
12:31.34chem|stMacer: actualy it is 3g as there is no official 3.5g afair
12:31.48Macerand hspa+?
12:32.21DocScrutinizerGSM is 2G, 2G+EDGE=2.5G. UMTS=3G, 3G+HSxPA=3.5G
12:32.35Macerheh
12:32.43DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing like HSPA+
12:32.49Macerwell. seems rather false advertising
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12:33.43Macerclever marketing?
12:34.21chem|stMacer: there is a false advertising of 3.9G as 4G as it will be compatible to "real" 4G but is actualy 3G
12:34.57DocScrutinizer3.9G? o.O
12:35.03chem|stamof they do not even meet ITU specs
12:35.10Macerhaha
12:35.17Macer3.9!
12:36.03chem|st"Confusion has been caused by some mobile carriers who have launched products advertised as 4G but which are actually current technologies, commonly referred to as '3.9G', which do not follow the ITU-R defined principles for 4G standards."
12:36.26chem|streads wikipedia
12:36.31DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G
12:36.42DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umts
12:37.27chem|st"Current LTE and WiMAX implementations are considered pre-4G"
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12:37.54chem|stwimax2 and LTEadvanced are considered to become 4G
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12:38.57Macer100mb/s huh?
12:38.59Macerhah
12:40.08DocScrutinizerhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Term_Evolution
12:40.15DocScrutinizerE-UTRAN
12:40.32Maceroh
12:40.42Maceritu says they can be considered 4g
12:40.46Macerlame
12:40.56Macergave in to $ huh?
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12:41.23Macerbecause they are based on the new tech the carrier may use to reach the standard
12:41.36Macerwhat a racket haha
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12:43.20DocScrutinizerok, I've been wron LTE!=4G
12:46.54DocScrutinizerpff there's even HSPA+
12:47.11lcuktincan string is the new sneakernet
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12:50.26DocScrutinizerhehe
12:50.33DocScrutinizertook a while to parse
12:51.07DocScrutinizerprefers lazors
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12:51.58DocScrutinizernot exactly sneaker, but close, way extended operation range, and cool ;-)
12:52.34lcukWARNING: DO NOT LOOK INTO LASER COMMUNICATIONS DEVICE WITH REMAINING EYE
12:52.43DocScrutinizer;-P
12:52.49DocScrutinizererr
12:52.52DocScrutinizer.-P
12:52.57lcukhaha
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12:55.13DocScrutinizera nice widened beam collimated IR-laser can build a directed communications channel several tens of km distance
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12:55.51lcukDocScrutinizer, but you need line of sight.
12:55.56DocScrutinizeryep
12:56.10DocScrutinizermodulo rain/fog doesn't really care
12:56.16lcukor a laser powerful enough to create its own tunnel
12:56.57DocScrutinizerwants to see lcuk pulling his strin thru a hole in next building
12:57.41lcukRFC 103291 telephony using tincans and quantum strings.
12:57.52DocScrutinizerYAY
12:58.06DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕
12:59.05DocScrutinizerwonders if the flu creates the need for coffee, or the coffee makes him feel like flu
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13:09.19DocScrutinizerlcuk: (laser strong enough) I suggest a less instantly dangerous path: moon/cloud/satellite scatter, sth well known at amateur radio (well, maybe not for the clouds there)
13:10.09lcukDocScrutinizer, shining a sufficiently bright laser into the sky can only lead to one thing:
13:10.12lcukbatman appearing.
13:10.26DocScrutinizerhehe
13:11.05DocScrutinizerhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorscatter
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13:19.05DocScrutinizerponders WSJT over 14kHz accoustic, to replace lcuk 's string. Could probably get implemented on every standard smartphone, esp N900. Possible range: up to maybe 1000m
13:19.50jaskahttp://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135263645897.gif
13:21.30DocScrutinizerjaska: ROTFL
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13:22.27DocScrutinizerjaska: absolutely to the point :-) Best one since long
13:22.48DocScrutinizerlcuk: see? It's not batman
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13:24.15lcuk*facepalm*
13:24.22DocScrutinizerlook more like rabBITman
13:24.57DocScrutinizer*gasp*
13:25.15DocScrutinizercan't stop cackling
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13:30.58jigrapis it ok to put the SDK repo in my n900 natively?
13:31.17crashanddieNo
13:31.25jigrapI'd like to install some applications such as screen and strace
13:31.25jigrapoh ok
13:31.32crashanddiewell
13:31.34jigrapso what's the right way to do it?
13:31.38jigrapI have scratchbox setup
13:31.38crashanddieyou can add it to install a few apps
13:31.56jigrapis it ok if I copy the .deb files from my scratchbox to my n900
13:31.57jigrap?
13:32.03crashanddiebut don't keep it activated, and don't run stupid things like apt-get upgrade
13:32.05jigrapjust need a few apps yea
13:32.11jigrapyea
13:32.19jigrapI'll just activate it for a few things
13:32.24jigrapand then comment it out
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13:33.06jigrapI've had an issue where libglade is crashing when I try to load a glade file from pygtk and I wanted to debug it
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13:39.25crashanddieDocScrutinizer, lcuk: it is batman! http://imagebin.org/145883
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13:49.22ZogGhey guys
13:49.25ZogGsup sup
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13:54.12jigrapwhich debian version is the latest maemo based on? I want to find the right source package for python-glade2?
13:54.38jigrapfor scratchbox I meant
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14:05.13DocScrutinizerlcuk: use your noisebox (aka PC speaker) instead of a string! -> http://wsprnet.org/drupal/node/2646
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14:36.40n900-stuffhey all
14:36.42n900-stuff\o/
14:36.52n900-stuffi have a lil question about scratchbox
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14:40.15n900-stuffusing scratchbox vm, I have built the hildon-desktop in the arm target, and it has produced the deb file for the hildon desktop. Now i want to install this file so that the emulator shows me the effects of my changes, the one that we run inside the Xephyr
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14:40.56n900-stuffumm from the "[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/src2] > " I type the "dpkg -i hildon-desktop_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb", but it says i'm not root
14:41.31E0xwhoami what say ?
14:41.33n900-stuffand if i type "sudo dpkg -i hildon-desktop_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb" its says sudo: must be setuid root
14:41.37MohammadAGfakeroot dpkg -i...
14:41.52n900-stuffok wait MohammadAG lemme try
14:41.57MohammadAGwhy are you installing it anyway
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14:42.08MohammadAGit's not like you can bring up the UX in ARMEL anyway
14:42.24n900-stuffoh
14:42.30n900-stuffso how do i test my changes?
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14:42.34n900-stuffdeploy it on the device?
14:42.48MohammadAGthat would be a start
14:42.55MohammadAGor compile for X86 and run it there
14:43.09MohammadAGbut I test it on device
14:43.18n900-stuffwhen we compile for x86, the xephyr emulator will be able to run it ?
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14:43.33chem|styes
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14:44.01chem|sttarget for scratchbox is x86 target for n900 is armel
14:44.23n900-stuffwait
14:45.05chem|stif you wnat to install to device armel if you want to install to "xephyr"(scratchbox) it is 86
14:45.33n900-stuffso if i'm here "[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >  " it means i'm building for x86. Now when the deb file is built, On the same prompt (environment) I can do an install, then when I run xephyr, its going to have my changes there?
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14:46.09MohammadAGyes
14:46.12chem|stMohammadAG: have you got any clue how to mirror Xdisplay on n900? the xrandr extension are there but no xrandr
14:46.23n900-stuffok
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14:46.35MohammadAGum, you can install xrandr on the N900 afaik
14:47.10MohammadAGnot sure if it's in the repos, but I had it once
14:47.17chem|stfrom debian/arm?
14:47.32MohammadAGnah, I never install stuff that way
14:47.38MohammadAGget the source and compile it
14:47.48n900-stuffAnd what about debugging MohammadAG? I mean, right now I'm just opening files in VI, make a lil change, build it, and then going to deploy and see changes, but this way the debugging is going to be pretty hard. Is stepping into the source on certain events supported?
14:48.21MohammadAGnot sure, never debugged it, but I'm guessing gdb?
14:48.21n900-stuffand how do I do that?
14:48.24GAN900wishes for hardware.
14:48.28DocScrutinizerHAHA >>Although I was not able to make wspr running on Linux using pulseaudio,...
14:48.40n900-stuffhmmm
14:48.41MohammadAGGAN900, +1
14:48.58MohammadAGwants Maemo 5 on new HW
14:49.06chem|stMohammadAG: +1
14:49.47chem|stdon't know why nokia doesn't just do it...
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14:50.51E0xmaemo 5 complete open
14:51.03n900-stuffso MohammadAG, when you are changing the hildon source and adding features, you (and other cssu guys i suppose) just change source on some text editor, then build and run (and repeat), no stepping in the source code?
14:51.26MohammadAGpretty much, yeah
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14:51.34n900-stuffamazing
14:51.37n900-stuffhehe
14:52.23viszthat's what we in finland call 'stabbing the duck'
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14:52.52chem|stno replace core and ram with something newer add a compass and ship it... no major hardware change would mean no major coding effort for drivers and stuff
14:53.11DocScrutinizerprintf() pretty much still the most popular debugging method
14:53.29chem|stDocScrutinizer: +1
14:53.41SpeedEvilchem|st: maybe bump the VGA cam quality a tiny fraction.
14:53.47DocScrutinizerI for one prefer gdb whenever possible
14:54.06MohammadAGadd HDMI and a compass
14:54.17SpeedEvilHDMI is a major change.
14:54.42SpeedEvilThere are many almost pin compatible changes that can be done 'easily'
14:54.42chem|sthdmi and 12mp cam?
14:54.52chem|stbut thats it... not much of a change
14:54.56SpeedEvilDifferent cam, for example.
14:55.12MohammadAG15MP, 12MP is meh
14:55.16SpeedEvilOr keyboard layout.
14:55.19chem|stn8 uses the same socket...
14:55.24SpeedEvilI want a decent 5MP
14:55.31SpeedEvilThe existing one is around 2.5
14:55.36MohammadAGSpeedEvil, tried the iPhone's?
14:55.40MohammadAG(just wondering)
14:55.42SpeedEvilMohammadAG: no.
14:55.57SpeedEvilMohammadAG: You mean to compare the quality with the n00?
14:55.58chem|st10mp for but with a much better chip suits me
14:56.18MohammadAGSpeedEvil, yeah
14:56.26SpeedEvilnope, then.
14:56.35SpeedEvilMohammadAG: I don't ownany apple proucts anymore.
14:56.38SpeedEvilI eated them.
14:56.48E0xi will happen with the same hardware but just vsync and better software for camera ( one that can process image better )
14:56.53E0xhappy*
14:57.09MohammadAGE0x, check out nicolai's rewrite
14:57.11chem|stso upgrade of IR from cir to irda is one wire added as the chips already supporting it, it is just not connected
14:57.15MohammadAGit'll be in the next CSSU
14:57.20SpeedEvilmore ROM/RAM would be 90% of it.
14:57.26SpeedEvilFor me.
14:57.32SpeedEvilErr - more RAM, even.
14:57.37SpeedEvilAnd the faster processor grade.
14:57.50SpeedEvilIt's still only 720, but 720/512'd be a nice bump.
14:58.01DocScrutinizerkick 15mp cam with a lens/aperture the size of a pinhole :-(
14:58.06E0xMohammadAG: nicola rewrite is the the same backend afaik and what i see he is not doing anything change of the way that camera handle picture because still are very noisy picture and some iso problems
14:58.14chem|stI would be happy with ram cpu/gpu upgrades as well, a compass would be nice but not a must have
14:58.15E0xmaybe in the future will better
14:58.18DocScrutinizerI want a 1" sensor
14:58.37E0xSpeedEvil: indeed i forget that too , more ram
14:58.58chem|stDocScrutinizer: buy a DSLR...
14:59.22MohammadAGE0x, noise is prolly cause the lens sucks
14:59.38SpeedEvilMohammadAG: The lens can't be much bigger.
14:59.41chem|stit would be enough to have the cam app start in under 5 seconds to take snapshots... (thats for an uptime of 9+ days)
14:59.50SpeedEvilMohammadAG: The problem is the sensor is too small to allow for the resolution.
15:00.06SpeedEvilMany of my issues aren't really HW issues at all.
15:00.08E0xMohammadAG: hmm i don't much about photographic but i doubt is because lense
15:00.09MohammadAGthen it's because the sensor sucks :P
15:00.09SpeedEvilMost, even.
15:00.20MohammadAGE0x, it is
15:00.35MohammadAGtry the N95, I'm pretty sure that doesn't do good processing either
15:00.43DocScrutinizerI want a 1" sensor
15:00.48E0xSpeedEvil: noise problem is because the sensor ?
15:01.08SpeedEvilE0x: The sensor does surprisingly well, for the limited number of photons hitting it.
15:01.26SpeedEvilE0x: Size is the major cause of the low performance in the dark.
15:01.31SpeedEvil(though good for its class)
15:01.39DocScrutinizersmall sensor == less light
15:01.56DocScrutinizerless light == more noise
15:02.06E0xtrue , because in much light the picture look good
15:02.15SpeedEvil2 photons = ~0.2 electrons (after the filters and stuff).
15:02.17DocScrutinizerthat's why 15mp is MEH on such a form factor
15:02.24E0xi have a few photo at beach and look great
15:02.34MohammadAGthough tbh, I find nicolai's rewrite much better
15:02.47SpeedEvilSo you need at least a few thousand photons hitting each pixel to get a reasonably noise-free image.
15:02.56MohammadAGit snaps the pic faster, so the pics end up sharper even if you shake the cam after taking the pic
15:03.13SpeedEvilAnd that's in theory - there is probably an irreducable 20 or 50 photoelectron noise in there too.
15:03.17MohammadAGwhereas with the stock UI, I have to keep the phone still for like 3-5s
15:03.27DocScrutinizermore pixels on same area of chip == less light / pixel
15:04.02chem|stDocScrutinizer: yeah a bigger sensor with 8mp would be fair enough for a smartphone
15:04.28E0xwell actual maemo 5 in new hardware will not that good  but maemo 5 fixing some of the stock app in the same hardware ( n900 ) will make a great device
15:04.33DocScrutinizerbigger sensor == longer F
15:04.48E0xand i think is the CSSU big atractive
15:04.50MohammadAGno, maemo 5 would be good on new hardware
15:05.02DocScrutinizerso deeper formfactor. You need some tricks to get that into a smartphone
15:05.12MohammadAGjust up the kernel and dump closed apps
15:05.33E0xMohammadAG: exactly
15:05.47E0xthat is my point , actual maemo need that fixed first
15:05.54chem|stDocScrutinizer: there is lots of space... already
15:06.37DocScrutinizerthere is?
15:07.32chem|stat least 1.5mm if you remove the stupid housing and put a dust shield directly on the sensor
15:07.39DocScrutinizeras a rule of thumb you can say a cam module always is cube'ish
15:07.51E0xhttp://picpaste.com/20101030_005-hRQ5Ytx1.jpg
15:07.53chem|stthe sensor itself isn't flat on top either
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15:08.33DocScrutinizerso my 1" sensor needs a lens protruding 1" from the sensor plane
15:08.36chem|stDocScrutinizer: not talking of its cubic formfactor but the thickness
15:09.01chem|stand not talking of 1" sensors O_o
15:09.03DocScrutinizer-> without tricks the "phone" is 30mm thick then
15:09.17E0xtricks ?
15:09.24DocScrutinizermirrors etc
15:09.25E0xmugen battery you mean ?
15:09.29E0xok
15:09.53DocScrutinizeryou can "fold" the light path
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15:10.54DocScrutinizer_/\/\/°
15:11.00DocScrutinizer;-)
15:12.10DocScrutinizer/_--0
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15:15.12DocScrutinizeror simply use a zoom-out lens like almost all the better compact cams do
15:16.08DocScrutinizerHAH
15:17.32DocScrutinizeruse a holographic lens, a holographic picture of a (virtual) lens hoovering 2" above the device. Place that holo-gobo relatively close on top of the sensor, full area full apperture
15:18.35DocScrutinizer(probably a idiotic idea, mut quite intriguing)
15:18.58DocScrutinizers/mut/but/.
15:20.21DocScrutinizeryeah, alas it's nonsense :-P
15:21.30DocScrutinizerwon't do anything faintly similar to a real large lens
15:22.09E0xslide to answer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJfEqygIqNA
15:22.14chem|stless poor materials on top of the sensor == more light...
15:22.21E0xat 2:30
15:23.50chem|stso what?
15:24.25chem|stWFM was always my answer... I never *repeat* never ever accidentially answered a call
15:24.40E0xWFM ?
15:24.49chem|st~WFM
15:24.49infobotwell, wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications..  Works For Me
15:24.56DocScrutinizerI sometimes accidently rejected a call
15:25.16DocScrutinizer~wtf wfm
15:25.25chem|stin short^^
15:26.16chem|stDocScrutinizer: with better materials (surface conditioning) the n900 could get 25% more light I would claim
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15:26.25E0xnot sure if you happen to you guys but the glich when the device is locked happen to me
15:26.28E0xtime to time
15:26.41E0xrotation-gllich
15:26.49DocScrutinizera "mute ringtone" button/function would be way more needed (imho) than a slide-to-answer
15:26.57E0xtha incremese the rate of wrong rejected calls
15:27.03chem|stDocScrutinizer: function is...
15:27.14chem|stDocScrutinizer: just turn it up side down and it silences
15:27.29chem|stmeans screen down
15:27.32DocScrutinizerduh, seems I forgot :-D
15:27.58E0xchem|st: yes but that have a bug
15:28.06E0xor not a bug but a missing feature
15:28.11chem|stworks with alarms and calls for me
15:28.24chem|stE0x: what do you mean
15:28.26E0xif somebody call you and you flip it it work
15:28.32E0xbut if the same ppl call you again
15:28.35E0xthe phone ring
15:28.36DocScrutinizerwhich brings me to another alternative concept to "slide to answer": shake prior to pushbutton to answer
15:28.49chem|stE0x: yes so?
15:29.01chem|styou want a block list?
15:29.20E0xnot but stay in muted mode till i flip back it
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15:29.32DocScrutinizernah, E0x complains about a feature
15:29.43chem|stget it yeah
15:29.49E0xyes that is what i say : bug of missing feature
15:29.52E0xor*
15:30.09chem|stactualy I *do not* want it to be silenced for good if turned
15:30.09DocScrutinizerI'd consider this a really bad feature if it stays muted as long as it sits there face down
15:30.22chem|stDocScrutinizer: +1
15:30.27E0xna
15:31.02chem|stif I turn of my alarm that way and someone calls me while it is turned...
15:31.09chem|stor the other way round...
15:31.17DocScrutinizerE0x: if you want that, you easily can implement via orientation aware daemon (e.g. dwimd) plus setting profile=silent
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15:31.33chem|stor I turn it for my mum and minutes later my sister calls...
15:31.47E0xDocScrutinizer: yes, i was thinking in that
15:32.21E0xRight NOW
15:32.24E0x:D
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15:32.41DocScrutinizerglad to help :-D
15:33.33E0xhehe i was cool in a meeting somebody calle me and i forget to change the profile of the n900 so i remember the feature
15:33.38E0xand just flip it
15:33.54E0xsome ppl there say Wow
15:35.16DocScrutinizerseems N900 has much more WOWs than we usually are aware of
15:35.19E0xbut not was a great crowd  neither
15:35.32E0xDocScrutinizer: heh
15:35.44GAN900Wee, tornados
15:36.00E0xthe phone has great great potencial but no so well implementation
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15:36.14DocScrutinizerenvisions GAN900 jump his stormchaser van
15:36.26MohammadAGheh, a classmate had his phone ring and the display didn't go on
15:36.46MohammadAGhe couldn't silence it, i took it from him and flipped it
15:36.54MohammadAGthe class kinda lol'd at that
15:37.02DocScrutinizerhaha
15:37.16E0xheh
15:37.33E0xthat was a bad and the same time good moment for the n900
15:37.47MohammadAGand yeah, flip to silence then set silent profile
15:37.56MohammadAGthat would be better than keeping it silent when it's flipped
15:38.09MohammadAGsometimes I sleep with headphones in my ears and flip the N900
15:38.57MohammadAGE0x, tbh, I think his proximity sensor's borked
15:39.07MohammadAGI had to slide the lock switch to unlock the screen
15:39.33DocScrutinizerconcept: when flipping->mute, check prox sensor for 5 s. If after 5s still no prox detection->switch to silent
15:40.14DocScrutinizerso E0x can flip and hold for 5s, then put on desk
15:40.27DocScrutinizerothers just flip and put on desk
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15:41.37DocScrutinizerMohammadAG flipps by accident -> also no problem, as it won't magically hoover for 5s (unless dropped from a skyscraper :-P)
15:42.09E0xwhich  muted will be the last of his problem
15:42.24DocScrutinizerthat's what I meant :-D
15:43.45chem|stwhat about skydiving... ever thought of it...
15:44.12DocScrutinizerhmm, I fail to spot the problem
15:44.18MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, i just do an air flip
15:44.22MohammadAGno desks required :P
15:45.06chem|stI'd love to have it check for proximity changes > 3cm to mute a call or an alarm
15:45.25DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: rrright. So you'd have to flip back upright in less than 5s, otherwise profile=silent. Not too hard to accomplish, eh?
15:45.38chem|stMohammadAG: yeah it is using accelerometers not proximity
15:45.51MohammadAGyeah
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15:45.59MohammadAGhmm
15:46.11DocScrutinizererrr, you all missed the point?? impossible
15:46.12MohammadAGI wonder if there's actually a dbus signal on flipping the device
15:46.22MohammadAGdoh
15:46.27MohammadAGorientation
15:46.28chem|sthaving the jedi gesture is still a feature I'd love :(
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15:46.36MohammadAGI'd make a daemon in Qt, shouldn't take 5 mins
15:47.13MohammadAGif call arrived, check orientation, if down, phone will be muted, fire a QTimer of 5000ms, if proximity is closed, set profile to silent
15:47.14DocScrutinizerthere's all you need already out there. No need to "make a daemon"
15:47.15MohammadAGsounds easy
15:47.19chem|stthat needs a setting in phone settings then...
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15:48.05MohammadAGI still want the tap feature of the accelerometer
15:48.18chem|sttap feature?
15:48.36MohammadAGit can detect taps
15:48.43DocScrutinizerthere's for sure a dbus-signal you can catch, for orientation. You can go with dbus-scripting, or exploit dwimd which is meant to do exactly such things
15:48.44chem|stah ok
15:48.44MohammadAGthe E66 did that
15:49.11MohammadAGDocScrutinizer said it was missing code in the driver
15:49.26DocScrutinizertap/double-tap is not supported by lis302dl driver
15:49.36MohammadAGbut is by the HW
15:49.41DocScrutinizeryep
15:49.43chem|stneat!
15:49.54MohammadAGsomeone hack it in please :P
15:49.57DocScrutinizerdetection *can* be done in lis302
15:50.07MohammadAGbut?
15:50.48DocScrutinizerbut there's no userland software using this new sysnode triggering an event yet
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15:50.58MohammadAGthere can be
15:51.03DocScrutinizersure
15:51.15DocScrutinizeryou only need an augmented driver in PK
15:51.25DocScrutinizerit's kinda simple to implement
15:51.35MohammadAGcan you do it?
15:51.57chem|stwhere do I find HW specs of the proxi sensor?
15:52.02DocScrutinizerI for sure could, if I could find the mood to dive into kernel hacking
15:52.07MohammadAGwhy do you need those?
15:52.11DocScrutinizerchem|st: nowhere
15:52.29DocScrutinizerchem|st: completely unclear what a component this is
15:52.50DocScrutinizerchem|st: too smal for proper label on it
15:52.53chem|stis there a proper readout possible?
15:53.07MohammadAGsee proximityd
15:53.10chem|stdistance I mean?
15:53.13DocScrutinizerchem|st: and as you know we got no component names on schematics
15:53.16MohammadAGno
15:53.32MohammadAGit's either open or closed
15:53.38DocScrutinizerchem|st: nope, this is a switch
15:53.49DocScrutinizerhas 3 contacts afaik
15:53.53chem|stby driver I guess
15:53.59DocScrutinizerno driver
15:54.08DocScrutinizerit's a switch
15:54.16chem|stok
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15:55.12MohammadAG200Hz is the rate afaik
15:55.27DocScrutinizerof lis302?
15:55.31DocScrutinizeror what?
15:55.36MohammadAGproximity
15:55.40DocScrutinizernah
15:56.21MohammadAGwell, it fires a "light" every 0.2s
15:56.45MohammadAGand Qt Mobility's N900 plugin states 200ms
15:56.51DocScrutinizerit's a hw that sends an ultrashort light strobe every 0.x seconds, and monitors the reflection. If reflection detected it pulls the signal pin low
15:57.03MohammadAGyeah, 0.2s
15:58.15DocScrutinizerso that's nowhere near anything like 200Hz
15:58.47DocScrutinizerit's more like this swich can operate at max 2.5Hz
15:59.02MohammadAGsorry, meant ms, not Hz
15:59.26MohammadAGwhich would be 5Hz
15:59.34DocScrutinizernope
15:59.48DocScrutinizer1Hz == one on AND off / s
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16:00.06MohammadAGoh, then it's 5/2, as you said
16:00.17DocScrutinizerso with one probe every 200ms the switch can do 2.5Hz, not 5
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16:03.12DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: got a pointer to QtMob's statement about that prox sensor?
16:03.35MohammadAGon the N900 atm, sec
16:03.41DocScrutinizernp
16:04.05MohammadAGthinking of getting an Archos for browsing
16:04.53DocScrutinizerthinking of getting a coffin filled with salt
16:05.18DocScrutinizermybe I conserve a lil bit better that way
16:06.07MohammadAGhmm, it says 100Hz
16:06.19DocScrutinizerI'm not surprised
16:06.28MohammadAGhttp://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54
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16:08.12DocScrutinizerWAAAAAAAH!!! it POLLS!
16:08.18MohammadAGindeed
16:08.37MohammadAGit takes 7-17% CPU time, that's why I don't use it
16:09.11DocScrutinizerOK, let me state one think: QtMob IS UTTER CRAP
16:09.34DocScrutinizerhave those morons ever heard about kevents?
16:09.51DocScrutinizerthat's what sysfs is all about, that's what IRQs are all about
16:09.53MohammadAGor mce, since it's N900 specific anyway
16:11.52DocScrutinizeryou FUCKING DO NOT poll peripherals that are IRQ based. The purpose of IRQs is to wake the CPU when there's something to do. ***NOT*** I repeat NOT to poll the sensor 100 times a second to find out if sth changed, and ignoring the IRQ
16:12.54DocScrutinizerOh my Gosh, when even Qt guys are so stupid, how can I blame meego devels about not having any clue
16:13.45DocScrutinizeris waiting for some good minded soul to prod him to open a ticket against that crap.
16:14.02DocScrutinizerI WON'T - I'm PISSED SINCE LONG
16:14.45E0xjust open the ticked and say : THIS IS A CRAP FIX IT
16:14.45DocScrutinizerall those "cute" sw devels who think they know everything about hw and don't need somebody like me
16:15.10DocScrutinizerCBA
16:15.45MohammadAGI'd submit a patch if I knew how to read those interrupts
16:16.46DocScrutinizerit's a think called kevents (iirc) - udev uses them a lot. You register with a sysfs node and get a callback whenever there's sth interesting happening
16:17.04DocScrutinizers/think/thing/.
16:17.36DocScrutinizerit's a fundamental concept of sysfs
16:18.12MohammadAGfunny thing is it's using FILE *fd instead of QFile
16:18.41DocScrutinizerthere's *nothing* funny about that crap in my book
16:20.03E0xhttp://www.signal11.us/oss/udev/
16:20.22E0xjump to monitoring interface
16:20.23MohammadAGexcuse my noobish question, but this is somewhat similar to gconf's value changed signal right?
16:20.29E0xi think that is what is needed
16:22.41DocScrutinizer>>libudev also provides a monitoring interface. The monitoring interface will report events to the application when the status of a device changes.
16:23.19E0xDocScrutinizer: kqueue is teh name
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16:23.44E0xnot sure the dif beteween kqueues and libudev
16:24.03E0xhttp://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.94.2021&rep=rep1&type=pdf
16:24.04DocScrutinizerlibudev obviously is for udev
16:24.46E0xi mean in which is more proper for n900 or maemo
16:25.51DocScrutinizerwell, I loosely followed how FSO is doing these things (initially on Openmoko devices), so my knowledge is not from using it but only from speedreading the code there
16:26.50E0xok
16:27.21DocScrutinizerSo I'll not bother to dig out the bookmarks for the code to use those kevents/kqueues/knotifications/whatever
16:28.33DocScrutinizerI know there are proper methods and tools to implement this in a non.polling way like sysfs is meant to be used
16:29.20DocScrutinizerI CBA anymore about crap like qtmob or sensorfw going nasty and stupid, as nobody pays me for educating so called professionals
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16:30.39E0xinotifylook like is the thing
16:31.27E0xwell time to lunch ,bbl
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16:34.13MohammadAGremind me to dump QMaemo5InformationBox for my own libhildon-based class
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16:40.26GeneralAntillesBleh
16:43.32jacekowskiit looks like i may be unemployed from 1st of april
16:43.55SpeedEvil:/
16:44.21jacekowskior whatever long it takes for hmrc to close company
16:44.39GeneralAntillesApril Fools? :(
16:44.54jacekowskino
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16:45.12jacekowski2 months ago they took some of company vans
16:45.37jacekowskiand well, it's payday and there is nothing in my account ( and everybody elses )
16:46.04DocScrutinizerjacekowski: WTF?!
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16:48.35jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: ?
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16:49.18DocScrutinizerjacekowski: what shitty news
16:50.17jacekowskinot so much
16:50.30jacekowskifor last half year i was doing fuck all
16:50.40jacekowskiwith some occasional jobs
16:51.08jacekowskino i just have motivation to look for something better
16:51.19jacekowskiit's just that there is nothing within reasonable distance
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16:59.57DocScrutinizerheh, so you decided to blow up the rocks? :-D
17:00.40jacekowskiwell, i'm thinking about doing it hardcore way
17:00.57*** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view)
17:01.14jacekowskiwhich is piss of my current employer as much as i can
17:01.15DocScrutinizeroh, the exploding freq converter wasn't good enough?
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17:01.45jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, it wasn't my fault, i was doing everything as said by manufacturer
17:01.51jacekowskito that point
17:01.53DocScrutinizer:-(
17:01.58DocScrutinizererr :-)
17:02.12DocScrutinizer(blame blindtyping)
17:02.31jacekowskibefore i got to doing some clever stuff it exploded
17:02.55DocScrutinizerI suggest you better lift the expensive devices and sell on ebay rather than blow up
17:03.27jacekowskiyeah, i already made sure that expensive stuff is in my car
17:03.30DocScrutinizerbetter to balance your bank account which is missing quite something
17:04.10ZogGwhat?
17:04.15ZogGare you high?
17:04.24*** join/#maemo fredix (~fredix@2a01:e35:2f38:d790:5054:ff:feaa:c397)
17:04.27jacekowskino, just not paid
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17:12.45DocScrutinizerstarts over headdesking. EE did a great job, still users complain and whine for double sized batteries, while Qt department goes polling(!!!) a switch @ 100Hz that can and will do IRQ and can change at mac 2.5Hz
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17:13.52DocScrutinizerchanges for wall, harder than desk, so maybe better
17:14.30jacekowskiwhich switch
17:14.35DocScrutinizerprox
17:14.52DocScrutinizerhttp://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54
17:14.57jacekowskiall the time?
17:15.10DocScrutinizersure, otherwise it's useless
17:15.12DocScrutinizerno?
17:15.17jacekowskior just when it's lit
17:15.28DocScrutinizererr wut?
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17:15.51DocScrutinizerprox always on VDD
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17:16.13jacekowskiproximity sensor is useless when display isn't lit
17:16.20jacekowskiso is it polling all the time
17:16.24jacekowskior when display is lit
17:16.31jacekowskior phone is doing something
17:16.45DocScrutinizerwho defines prox useless whithout display backlight?
17:17.02fralsDocScrutinizer: im sure they are happy if you submit a merge request to fix it
17:18.55DocScrutinizerI'm sure I CBA, as this shows an elementary lack of understanding about how to implement decent power aware functions in *all* Qt(-Moob), so this would just be a start, and really... I'm unpaid, they are the "pros"
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17:19.35jacekowskii'm not paid too
17:19.46ShadowJKpolling proximity sensor constantly would be harmful for battery life :)
17:20.03DocScrutinizerMAAAN obviously
17:20.03jacekowskiShadowJK: nope, it IS harmful
17:20.03ShadowJKsame goes for accelerometer
17:20.10DocScrutinizeryep
17:20.15DocScrutinizerexactly
17:20.16jacekowskiShadowJK: look at the link DocScrutinizer  posted
17:20.37DocScrutinizersame shit like in sensorfw of meego
17:20.47DocScrutinizerI just can't believe it
17:20.57ShadowJKlol
17:21.22ShadowJKmisses context of conversation again due to n900's small screensize ;D
17:22.21DocScrutinizer[2011-03-31 18:08:37] <MohammadAG> it takes 7-17% CPU time, that's why I don't use it
17:22.21jacekowski19:12  * DocScrutinizer starts over headdesking. EE did a great job, still users complain and whine for double sized batteries, while Qt department goes polling(!!!) a switch @ 100Hz that can and will do IRQ and can change at mac 2.5Hz
17:22.26jacekowski19:14 < DocScrutinizer> http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54
17:23.13ShadowJKAnyone files bugreport...
17:23.36ShadowJKanyway, even if it didn't show up in top, it'd eat batterypower...
17:23.46DocScrutinizersuggests http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog
17:23.47ShadowJKIt's all about the wakeups :/
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17:27.06ShadowJKBrowser is even more annoying to scroll anything in when it blinks white all the time
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17:28.55DocScrutinizerponders about SElinux to BLAME apps that use too many timer calls
17:31.11DocScrutinizerlike in: any app may use max 5000 timer wakeups, then gets killed
17:31.29DocScrutinizermaybe per day
17:33.24DocScrutinizeror make that 50,000, doesn't matter
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17:34.19DocScrutinizeror make the devel come to me personally and ask for using timers, while I wave the whip
17:34.34DocScrutinizermorons
17:35.40DocScrutinizerthe hardware is IRQ driven. If there *really* is any valid reason why the app can't go irq as well (i.e. callback), then this reason has to get fixed.
17:35.56Robot101this is why android uses wakelocks
17:36.04Robot101to force everything to sleep
17:36.11DocScrutinizeryeah, and this is why I hated android
17:36.19Robot101even if idle dalvik wakes up 60 times a second even when the phone is idle
17:37.06DocScrutinizerRobot101: you seen the rant above, about http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp#line54 ?
17:37.26ShadowJKThere's that wrapper thing that forces stuff to sleep that someone wrote for SDL games :)
17:37.27Robot101yes
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17:38.17DocScrutinizerwaitaminute, let's see if I can tatoo a name of an ass to kick,  into my cortex
17:38.58DocScrutinizer** Copyright (C) 2010 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary(-ies).
17:39.03DocScrutinizermeh, cowards
17:40.19ShadowJKhttp://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/history/master/plugins/sensors/n900/n900proximitysensor.cpp
17:41.11DocScrutinizerHAH!
17:41.16DocScrutinizer>:-(
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17:45.20DocScrutinizerclearly we need a maemo WTF of the week
17:48.53DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you suggested I should provide a patch for Qt-mob. I have NFC *if* and *what* object they provide that's _not_ such a friggin n900filebasedsensor and maybe actually is using the above mentioned mechanisms of event driven programming meant to get used for IRQ based sensors in sysfs
17:49.44ShadowJKwonders if inotify works on sysfs
17:49.57DocScrutinizerso any patch might mean a major redesign of large parts of Qt-mob
17:50.48DocScrutinizerShadowJK: (if it's actually 'inotify' and) if it's not, then the kernel *absolutely* needs a fix to make it work
17:51.21ShadowJKWell, that particular file looks fixable, since it actually calls a newReadingsAvailable thing of proximity state changes
17:51.34DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I now fsodeviced (iirc, might be fsoeventsd or whatever) IS using that paradigm
17:52.19MohammadAGShadowJK, it doesn't
17:52.22ShadowJKBut it also would probably need something to know when stuff wants sensor readings or not
17:52.23MohammadAG(ionotify)
17:52.28DocScrutinizeryeah, this thing had to get called on kernel notifying a change in sysfs
17:53.07ShadowJKMohammadAG, know how if not through inotify?
17:53.29DocScrutinizerI'm rather sure it's not inotify, it's sth different that's used for sysfs
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17:54.30DocScrutinizerShadowJK: why should it know about somebody wanting to know about sensor readings?
17:55.08ShadowJKSo that it can switch off sensors when their data isn't needed
17:55.15DocScrutinizerthat's a problem of how you activate sensors, and usually has to be done explicitly via writing some value to some controlling sysnode
17:55.37DocScrutinizerthough there are also designs that sense if the readout sysnode gets opened
17:55.57ShadowJKawesome: http://lwn.net/Articles/174660/
17:56.08ShadowJK(someone bookmark that for  me)
17:56.08DocScrutinizerrelated?
17:56.50ShadowJKsort of
17:57.45ShadowJKshould implement this for a charge4.sh ;p
17:58.52DocScrutinizerheh, there it is: kobject was one of the keywords
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18:02.40MohammadAGShadowJK, no idea, but I tried monitoring sysfs with ionotify and got nothing
18:03.12DocScrutinizerinotify is for 'normal' filesystems afaik. Can't work in sysfs
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18:04.39DocScrutinizerkevents is the buzzword
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18:07.53DocScrutinizeryou're registering for certain kevents by providing match-criteria
18:12.38DocScrutinizerfd = Posix.socket( Linux.Socket.AF_NETLINK, Posix.SOCK_DGRAM, Linux.Netlink.NETLINK_KOBJECT_UEVENT );
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18:22.33DocScrutinizerhttp://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=libfsoframework/fsoframework/kobjectnotifier.vala;h=b4d6aca64d67e118a58fb11f72aa084b75f50fb5;hb=00c471c86667ad3d86610296a634496d746ec287#l61
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18:24.11DocScrutinizerthis is how FSO is dealing with change of state of a sysfs node, i.e a sensor/whatever causing an interrupt and thus changing content of /sys/*/foo/bar
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18:25.17DocScrutinizer(don't worry, it's vala, not you gotten drunk without noticing)
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18:38.01DocScrutinizeractually it seems you get all kevents from this netlink socket, and then you check if the parameters match the event you're interested in. Well that's not too bad as *somebody* has to do this matching anyway, and CPU is running at that moment, so it's not like your app would wake the CPU for nothing. No question it's another universe than POLLING sysfs nodes
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18:40.44DocScrutinizerOK enough of pointers from my side. I guess everybody really interested knows enough now to fix or at least file a ticket against QtMob's n900proximitysensor.cpp
18:47.15DocScrutinizeror maybe against QtMob's n900filebasedsensor() implementation
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19:02.09o0-Dan-0ohi
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19:04.34ShadowJKthat lwn article suggests one could open() a sysfs node, and then do poll() on it?
19:07.27E0xrelate: http://lwn.net/Articles/193691/
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19:07.34E0xi am looking for some example
19:07.38E0xbut without look
19:07.46E0xi am asking in kernelnewbies now
19:09.33E0xhttp://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysfs-rules.txt
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19:12.01keriolol - sysfs rulez
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19:19.31o0-Dan-0oi just bought a used n900 the guy who sold it said that he left all hes stuff(cr*p) in the phone..
19:19.46o0-Dan-0ois this the way to go? ---> " http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware + http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=849980&postcount=20 "
19:19.57MohammadAGinfobot, flashing
19:19.57infobotsomebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
19:21.14o0-Dan-0o=)
19:21.21o0-Dan-0oyeah thats the stuff
19:21.35o0-Dan-0othanks MohammadAG
19:21.45o0-Dan-0oso (flashing the) eMMC aka *VANILLA*
19:22.10MohammadAGflash both
19:22.18o0-Dan-0ois gonna make the phone as new?
19:22.29MohammadAGyep
19:22.52o0-Dan-0oboth ?
19:22.55jacekowskiyes
19:23.00jacekowskinever flash emmc without fiasco
19:23.16o0-Dan-0oFIASCO isnt included when flashing eMMC
19:23.28o0-Dan-0o?
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19:23.40jacekowskino
19:23.52o0-Dan-0ooh
19:23.53*** part/#maemo Passeli (~passeli@85-23-79-231.bb.dnainternet.fi)
19:24.05o0-Dan-0ook thank you guys
19:24.16MohammadAGyou're welcome :)
19:24.23*** join/#maemo lmoura_ (~lauromour@187.113.126.201)
19:24.35DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: make sure you got no freaking device lock code set
19:24.53*** join/#maemo chenca1 (~chenca@187.113.126.201)
19:24.56o0-Dan-0ogonna read the page and do it ^^
19:24.58*** join/#maemo setanta_ (~setanta@187.113.126.201)
19:25.01MohammadAGif he does, he can clear it after flashing
19:25.02DocScrutinizeras this one is NOT reset to factory default 12345, even by flashing all
19:25.10o0-Dan-0odevice lock whata..
19:25.25o0-Dan-0odo they refer that in the page
19:25.26o0-Dan-0o!?
19:26.04E0xyou can crack it
19:26.04DocScrutinizeryou should check in settings / lockcode *before you flash*, as maybe afterwards you might not be able to access device anymore
19:26.16DocScrutinizeryeah, but only if access possible
19:26.21E0xtrue
19:26.35DocScrutinizerthat's why I suggested to check it NOW
19:26.45DocScrutinizernot whine after flashing
19:26.59o0-Dan-0ook good point i'll check that
19:27.11E0xdon't could be a way for workaround in case somebody flash the device without know that
19:27.15E0xcode ?
19:27.18E0xor is just get bricked
19:27.19E0x?
19:28.10*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@187.113.126.201)
19:28.34*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.113.126.201)
19:28.34*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr)
19:28.40DocScrutinizerthere *are* ways around, but they are complicated and somewhat dangerous
19:29.25MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> you should check in settings / lockcode *before you flash*, as maybe afterwards you might not be able to access device anymore
19:29.33E0xhardware mod things ?
19:29.36MohammadAGif you flash it, it doesn't prompt for a code
19:30.02DocScrutinizeruhuh
19:30.05*** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)
19:30.11MohammadAGnah, you can just crack it after flashing
19:30.23*** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@212-183-124-197.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
19:30.23DocScrutinizerI never tested that, but would think it's rather idiotic
19:30.33MohammadAGor before, doesn't really matter
19:30.36o0-Dan-0oman the phone is slow as h*ll
19:31.29DocScrutinizerthe shipped image should check if there's any non-standard lock code set and enabled, no?
19:31.35*** join/#maemo timeless_w7ip (~timeless_@firefox/developer/timeless)
19:32.16DocScrutinizerIF they are stupid enough to disable lock code via e.g gconf setting then I'd expect this flag to be on "check" in default image
19:32.19*** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.113.126.201)
19:32.50*** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef3de00-234.dhcp.inet.fi)
19:33.07DocScrutinizerbut I'd rather think both the code and the fact it's enabled or disabled are in CAL
19:33.25DocScrutinizerthe code for sure is, so why shouldn't the flag?
19:34.25o0-Dan-0oi'm setting language to english just to be sure we are talking about the same option
19:34.56*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi)
19:35.45DocScrutinizersettings -> devicelock(?)
19:36.08DocScrutinizerthe padlock icon
19:36.50o0-Dan-0oautolock = disabled
19:36.58DocScrutinizeryeah, that'
19:37.00DocScrutinizers
19:37.00o0-Dan-0oare we good to go
19:37.02o0-Dan-0o=)
19:37.03DocScrutinizernot the point
19:37.23DocScrutinizerclick on "change lock code"
19:37.24jacekowskilock is not stored in cal
19:37.27*** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~quassel@83.229.6.19)
19:37.28jacekowskiit's just a code that's stored there
19:37.37jacekowskiand only code
19:37.48DocScrutinizertry to change it from 12345 to 12345
19:39.19DocScrutinizerif this doesn't work, you should follow instructions of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522
19:40.10MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> the shipped image should check if there's any non-standard lock code set and enabled, no?
19:40.16o0-Dan-0olock code chaged
19:40.16MohammadAGshould, right
19:40.22MohammadAGbut isn't
19:40.25o0-Dan-0oseems its cool right
19:40.28o0-Dan-0o12345
19:40.38o0-Dan-0owas the code
19:40.41DocScrutinizeryeah, fine
19:40.58jacekowskii have a problem with HAM
19:41.12jacekowskii can't install anything because it keeps thinking that i don't have enough space
19:42.04o0-Dan-0onot having a sim card while doing all the stuff its ok right?!
19:42.11DocScrutinizeryes
19:42.18MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, wanna facepalm? gconftool-2 -R /apps/osso/applet/osso-applet-devicelock
19:42.19DocScrutinizereven better
19:42.28DocScrutinizerHAHAHA
19:42.34o0-Dan-0o=)
19:43.04o0-Dan-0obattery low though =/ have to charge it 1st
19:43.23DocScrutinizeryes
19:43.28DocScrutinizerdefinitely
19:43.34jacekowskiso, anybody heard about my problem?
19:44.15*** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu)
19:44.35DocScrutinizerjacekowski: usually that's caused by actually too low free space
19:44.54jacekowskinot in my case
19:45.10jacekowskirootfs                  227.9M    181.4M     42.3M  81% /
19:45.14DocScrutinizerdisable catalogs
19:45.29jacekowski/home/opt                 2.0G      1.7G    123.0M  94% /opt
19:45.56jacekowskihmmm
19:46.04jacekowskii started it on terminal
19:46.05MohammadAGdevicelock_total_failed = 16
19:46.09jacekowskiapt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home
19:46.20DocScrutinizerwhat?
19:46.22jacekowskiapt-worker: free space (/home/) = 128946176
19:46.22jacekowskiapt-worker: total space (/home/) = 2113748992
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19:46.34jacekowski123M isn't enough
19:46.36MohammadAGwhy is this useful again?
19:46.36MohammadAGjacekowski, can it write to where it wants to write?
19:46.49MohammadAGis /home writable?
19:46.53jacekowskiyes
19:47.16DocScrutinizerdisable catalogs
19:47.27DocScrutinizeror free space in /home
19:47.39jacekowskihow much does it need?
19:47.54DocScrutinizerdunno, I guess it depends on your catalogs
19:48.46jacekowski/dev/mmcblk0p2            2.0G      1.6G    238.2M  88% /home
19:48.50MohammadAGno
19:48.51jacekowskiand it's happy now
19:49.00DocScrutinizer:-)
19:49.03MohammadAGit depends on debian/control of the deb you're install
19:49.03jacekowskiapt-worker is closed isn't it?
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19:49.11MohammadAGMaemo-Required-Free-space
19:49.24DocScrutinizerduh
19:49.39jacekowskiMohammadAG: i very much doubt that opera needs more than 100M of free space i had
19:49.39DocScrutinizerMohammadAG, our Einstein :-D
19:49.56MohammadAGor something along those lines
19:49.56MohammadAGor HAM's being retarded, reminds me of a bug actually
19:50.18DocScrutinizerfor unpacking it might. At least according to MohammadAG the devels packaging it claimed it needs more
19:50.40MohammadAGthen it's being retarded :P
19:50.54MohammadAGjacekowski, no, it isn't
19:51.12jacekowskinew opera is cute
19:51.21MohammadAGI'm trying to get the "matrix" red pill thing back
19:51.33MohammadAGthe code's there, just disabled somewhere
19:51.44jacekowskiit's all nice and sexy and fast
19:51.48jacekowskinot like firefox based crap
19:52.00MohammadAGyeah
19:52.35MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, HAM can check debian/control before downloading
19:52.48*** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-242-96.pool.telenor.hu)
19:53.17MohammadAGI like opera for one reason only
19:53.23*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@86-44-198-90-dynamic.b-ras2.dbn.dublin.eircom.net)
19:53.23*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2)
19:53.30MohammadAGthey support N8x0 users and N900 users
19:53.40MohammadAGeven though both platforms are dead, at least officially
19:53.54jacekowskiand their on screen keyboard is working
19:54.22MohammadAGthat too
19:54.23Venemo_N900good evening Maemo :)
19:54.28*** part/#maemo nid0 (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk)
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19:55.04MohammadAGevening Venemo_N900
19:55.20MohammadAGsomething bothers me DocScrutinizer
19:55.20MohammadAGenable autolock and restart mce
19:57.12DocScrutinizeryou're bothered IF i'm really doing this? :-P no worries, I wait until you tell me what is going to happen
19:57.48MohammadAGit prompts for the code
19:58.15MohammadAGso it's actually mce requesting code at startup
19:58.25DocScrutinizermakes sense
19:58.47MohammadAGso inserting some stop mce into a place in init.d can override the dialog
19:59.06MohammadAGactually, flashing to recover a password might not be needed
19:59.16MohammadAGjust export eMMC over USB and edit gconf
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20:01.14DocScrutinizersure you don't flash to recover a password, that's rather nonsensical
20:01.38DocScrutinizerI'd use rescue-initrd
20:01.40MohammadAGwhat if you're locked out of the device
20:01.52MohammadAGwhat if mtd support is missing
20:02.22DocScrutinizer:shrug:
20:02.29DocScrutinizerif sth is missing, add it
20:03.10MohammadAGumm
20:03.17MohammadAGwhere are gconf settings stored?
20:03.26MohammadAGthey're in $HOME/.gconf on ubuntu
20:03.32DocScrutinizerin a couple of friggin files
20:04.05*** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu)
20:06.08MohammadAGmeh
20:06.09*** join/#maemo Sazpaimon_ (wat@c-68-57-16-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
20:06.09DocScrutinizerI'd ruthlessly flash CAL with an image of another unlocked device
20:06.17MohammadAGtwimgo stores my password as plaintext
20:06.36DocScrutinizerwhatever that is, so what?
20:07.39phapthis command to mute the sound doesn't work with me: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.maemo.Playback.Manager /org/maemo/Playback/Manager org.maemo.Playback.Manager.RequestMute boolean:True
20:07.40DocScrutinizeryou're one of the "protect me from my own passwords! ROT13 FTW!" fanboys? :-P
20:07.40Sazpaimon_where can I find some hildon toolbar icon examples
20:08.48phapdbus-send: Expected "true" or "false" instead of "True" well of course I tried 'true' I get no error but still it does nothing
20:10.09*** join/#maemo dan2k (~dan2k@44.203.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt)
20:10.12dan2ka question.. to get N900 flasher to work in Windows 7 64-bit (x64) is still needed to do http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=849980&postcount=20
20:10.17MohammadAGso does cutetube
20:10.17dan2k!?
20:12.32MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no, it's just a bit risky if someone breaks into your device :P
20:13.37DocScrutinizer51hahaha
20:16.14o0-Dan-0oi use win7 64bit is it still required to follow this? -> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=849980&postcount=20
20:17.49*** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.121.40.55)
20:18.30DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: to make it clear: don't you think who/whatever breaks your system authentication security will also know how foobar-acme is rot13-crypting the password and can as easily decode it as foobar-acme can?
20:18.48SpeedEvilNo.
20:19.05SpeedEvilPhone stealing people aregenerally not very bright.
20:19.51DocScrutinizer51so they for sure are too stupid to copy the file where the foobar-acme pw is stored
20:20.10*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@dhcp-467b.meeting.ietf.org)
20:20.57DocScrutinizer51duh wait, why copy it? why not just start foobare-acme?
20:22.37DocScrutinizer51sorry, this for sure makes no sense at all
20:24.17*** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@62-47-169-26.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
20:24.32DocScrutinizer51it only would make a marginal sense if you use same pw for all your auth, some of them stored in files and some require you entering them realtime
20:25.24*** join/#maemo mva (mva@pirate-party.ru)
20:28.23o0-Dan-0o64-bit users may encounter problems
20:28.41o0-Dan-0o..or will
20:29.33o0-Dan-0oif they do will they "brick" the equipment
20:29.36o0-Dan-0oXD
20:30.35*** join/#maemo s1gk1ll (~sigkill@a89-155-177-225.cpe.netcabo.pt)
20:30.36o0-Dan-0ojust want to be safe
20:31.52jigraphas anyone used the built in maemo application to access gmail? I have the SSL settings on and it seems to be failing
20:32.54DocScrutinizer51o0-Dan-0o: no chance to 'brick' anything
20:34.03DocScrutinizer51just make sure your battery is 100% charged
20:35.16o0-Dan-0o=) ok DocScrutinizer51
20:35.20DocScrutinizer51if flashing keeps failing, recharge while you do other things like googling
20:35.39o0-Dan-0obut is it better to follow the workaround at the 1st try
20:35.48o0-Dan-0oor what
20:35.55o0-Dan-0owhat do you advice
20:35.58o0-Dan-0o?
20:36.02DocScrutinizer51a flat battery is the only way to 'brick' the thing
20:36.49DocScrutinizer51if you feel uncomfortable, go for the complicated way with battery insertion etc
20:37.26DocScrutinizer51the other 'simple' way is for experienced users
20:37.52BCMMhow does maemo handle .install files from the browser?
20:38.07DocScrutinizer51eerrr?
20:38.20BCMMi'm trying to install firefox 4, but clicking it in microb isn't launching HAM
20:38.31DocScrutinizer51hmm
20:38.36BCMMi've now downloaded the .install with wget, but i'm not sure what to do now
20:38.47BCMMhildon-application-manager --some-parameter file.install?
20:39.00DocScrutinizer51hehe, just click it again
20:39.06DocScrutinizer51in browser
20:39.08BCMMclicked quite a few times now
20:39.28MohammadAGfilemanager
20:39.36BCMMbtw, navigating to the file:// location of the .install i fetched with wget does nothing; it clearly expects a correct mimetype
20:39.37DocScrutinizer51or that
20:39.43BCMMMohammadAG: find it in filemanager? ok
20:39.46MohammadAGit needs to have the correct mimetype on the server for microB to open HAM
20:39.57BCMMfigured.
20:40.01ShadowJKif you've got firefox or fennec installed from before you need to uninstall it
20:40.11BCMMShadowJK: ok
20:40.25BCMMfigured that might be the case, but i don't think that's the problem i have here since ham doesn't even start
20:40.54ProteousI installed firefox 4 via a button on the website
20:41.02*** join/#maemo user_ (~user@genld-225-052.t-mobile.co.uk)
20:41.04Proteouslast week
20:41.11Proteousit correctly opened up HAM
20:41.14user_yo
20:41.17*** join/#maemo jonaskoe1ker (~jonas@213.140.95.59)
20:41.20Proteoussup
20:41.32vi___sup broslice
20:41.45Proteousyo funkbrother
20:41.45BCMMaaah
20:41.54BCMMdidn't think to check the downloads window
20:42.03jonaskoe1kerHi all.  On my n900, the rss feed "http://foldvary.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default?alt=rss" doesn't work in the builtin RSS reader.  Can anyone else reproduce this behavior?
20:42.06BCMMthe download stalled at 0% somehow
20:42.27BCMMnaturally, clicking on it repeatedly didn't make it abandon the ongoing attempt to download it
20:42.32vi___does anyone know how exactly the mmc is unmounted when the backcover of the n900 is removed?
20:42.34BCMMi just don't know why it didn't time out...
20:42.40Proteousjonaskoe1ker: trying to get people to supsribe to your feed? ;)
20:42.51vi___becuse it sure doesnt unmount gracefully...
20:42.53jonaskoe1kerAlternate blogs work in the RSS reader, and foldvary works fine on liferea@debian-testing
20:43.02jonaskoe1kerProteous: no, it's Fred Foldvary's
20:43.08ProteousI was joking :)
20:43.11BCMMvi___: define gracefully?
20:43.14jonaskoe1kerProteous: :)
20:43.28jonaskoe1kerProteous: care to check whether you can reproduce?
20:43.41vi___a proper unmount that allows for all IO to cease
20:43.45Proteousjonaskoe1ker: I've never used the rss reader
20:44.01vi___as oppose to an outright 'yank the card out'
20:44.04Proteousjonaskoe1ker: not that that is a huge hurdle, but I'm also at work
20:44.11jonaskoe1kerProteous: fair :)
20:44.51vi___is it a HAL script?
20:44.57vi___cos i cant find it
20:45.11vi___and i am not sure how to work it out
20:46.20DocScrutinizervi___: how should it umount more gracefully than just umount?
20:47.57vi___i want to have swap on sd AND want it to unmount nicely if I take the back off.  i.e. when back comes off, swapoff is run
20:48.30vi___so the machine doesnt just spazz out as a huge chunk of swap suddenly disappears
20:48.50SpeedEvilSwapoff may take over a minute
20:49.06vi___ya follow?
20:49.19SpeedEvilSure - byt swapoff may take over a minute.
20:49.40vi___thats fine by me
20:49.58SpeedEvilYou'd need a 'OK to unount now' signal
20:50.05SpeedEvilI mean - OK to pull the card
20:50.19DocScrutinizerit's no timplemented this way
20:50.23vi___thats all fine
20:50.30*** join/#maemo cardinal (~cardinal@a79-169-143-91.cpe.netcabo.pt)
20:50.43vi___i just dont know how to 'hook' into the process
20:50.54DocScrutinizeruSD VDD powerdown is directly in kernel driver afaik
20:51.21*** part/#maemo Sazpaimon_ (wat@c-68-57-16-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
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20:51.32DocScrutinizerso that driver is first thing you need to "hook into"
20:51.44*** join/#maemo eijk_ (~eijk@e178201085.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:51.56*** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@89.142.208.96)
20:52.17DocScrutinizeranyway you want to look at ke_rcv
20:52.51vi___cheers bro!
20:52.55*** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
20:52.59DocScrutinizermaybe you get things accomplished there
20:56.44BCMMthis "Quick zoom" in firefox 4 for mobiles; is it the same as the double-tap zoom in microb?
20:57.32*** join/#maemo krau` (~krau@canuck.infradead.org)
21:03.00wazdhttp://tabletui.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/nokia-n0/ meheh :D
21:05.31*** join/#maemo b-man_ (~b-man17@pool-70-106-219-40.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net)
21:06.08DocScrutinizer51starts to wonder if ke_rcv might be kevent-receive
21:06.36*** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal)
21:06.48*** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com)
21:07.29*** join/#maemo markus (~quassel@200.119.121.31)
21:09.29*** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu)
21:12.58DocScrutinizerumm, if he wasn't leaving that fast, I could have pointed him at ke-recv-test
21:13.05*** join/#maemo mtnbkr (~mtnbkr@75-150-91-17-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
21:13.22nox-http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp/daiichi-photos.htm
21:13.45DocScrutinizert - swap off (ext-)MMC
21:13.48DocScrutinizero.O
21:14.54DocScrutinizerc - enable charging mode o.o o.O O.O
21:17.48*** join/#maemo Tr4sK (~user@home.biboum.fr)
21:17.57Tr4sKHi all
21:18.16*** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@85-238-110-179.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua)
21:18.36wazdo/
21:19.10Tr4sKi try to run subversion on my n900
21:19.12DocScrutinizerwhatever ke-recv c does, it's not what I thought it might be
21:19.56Tr4sKI got an "segmentation fault" error. any Idea
21:20.06nox-svn may not work on fat...
21:20.14*** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:20.15nox-(if this was on mydocs)
21:20.25Tr4sKhm
21:20.37Tr4sKok thx :)
21:20.46DocScrutinizerMEH, /me stupid
21:21.07DocScrutinizerfunny when you look at one device while hacking via ssh on another
21:21.14nox-haha
21:21.35nox-i guess thats the downside of having more than one n900 :)
21:24.25DocScrutinizerwell, it doesn't really change anything substantial on my evaluation of ke-recv c
21:24.41*** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@adsl-93-42-90.owb.bellsouth.net)
21:24.46DocScrutinizerke-recv-test c even
21:25.13Tr4sKnox-: same error on /home/
21:25.23nox-:(
21:25.35Tr4sKext3 partition
21:26.42nox-yeah
21:27.40nox-http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70570
21:27.48Tr4sKit's look like the pakage is brocken
21:29.48nox-apparently
21:30.43nox-tho one guy has a working one from extras-devel
21:31.41*** join/#maemo sunny_s (~sunny_s@86.57.254.135)
21:32.46*** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@adsl-93-53-60.owb.bellsouth.net)
21:34.36*** join/#maemo arp (~arp@217.151.192.22)
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21:43.24o0-Dan-0oquestion... i'm in portugal, the image for my region is global right?
21:43.32*** join/#maemo dangergrrl (~ariana@72.183.120.145)
21:45.19BCMMo0-Dan-0o: don't know, but use global anyway
21:46.32o0-Dan-0oXD
21:46.42o0-Dan-0ook
21:46.43BCMMeverybody does
21:46.53BCMMin fact, i'm not clear on what the differences are
21:47.05BCMMapart from local stuff getting released later
21:47.06ProteousI give global the "works on my machine" badge of approval
21:47.07o0-Dan-0othanks BCMM
21:47.10o0-Dan-0o=)
21:47.15BCMMwhich isn't a consideration now that nothing's going to be released
21:47.19Proteousheh
21:47.50BCMM(1.3.3.7 doesn't care about regions, ofc)
21:49.02o0-Dan-0ogonna go for RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin and RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
21:49.35o0-Dan-0oseems to be the latest stuff
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21:55.52o0-Dan-0oin the download section it says "...Always flash the eMMC image first, then the FIASCO image immediately after that..."
21:57.35o0-Dan-0obut in the guide the example says to flash rootfs/FIASCO 1st
21:57.43Sazpaimon_well I got remmina looking "okay" on my phone
21:58.08Sazpaimon_unfortunately it employs a few functions that make it hard to translate to a hildon interface
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21:59.10*** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
21:59.16o0-Dan-0omaybe i saw it wrong.. im a bit sleepy..
22:00.47MohammadAGgrr, can't figure out how to detect if I'm in the task manager
22:01.37o0-Dan-0ohey MohammadAG
22:01.50o0-Dan-0oa tip pls
22:01.51o0-Dan-0o?
22:02.30o0-Dan-0ofirst flash emmc or rootfs :s
22:02.58*** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@189.2.128.130)
22:03.31MohammadAGi always do rootfs then eMMC
22:03.35MohammadAGwithout -R
22:03.38o0-Dan-0oi think the guide says one way and in the download section says otherwise
22:04.35o0-Dan-0oLatest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N900 NOTE: Always flash the eMMC image first, then the FIASCO image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image! When flashing eMMC always also flash FIASCO rootfs - NEVER boot the device between the two flashes.
22:04.35DocScrutinizer51o0-Dan-0o: i told you both ways work. the 'complicated' way is more failsafe
22:05.17DocScrutinizer51incredible, this had been fixed months ago
22:05.45DocScrutinizer51aah no, it's the failsafe way
22:06.00MohammadAGindeed, order doesn't matter, but flashing eMMC first usually fails due to flasher being retarded
22:06.11o0-Dan-0ocomplicated way?
22:06.39DocScrutinizer51complicated as in 'remove battery .. didumdidum...'
22:06.50DocScrutinizer51~flashingt
22:06.56DocScrutinizer51~flashing
22:06.56infobotit has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
22:07.23*** join/#maemo willer_ (~willer_@189.2.128.130)
22:11.38DocScrutinizer51o0-Dan-0o: basically if you got your shit sorted and can write BOTH commands (for flashing rootfs and emmc, this sequence) in ONE commandline like "flasher combined && flasher vanilla" and both are guaranteed to work (no typos, no wrong parameters, no -R, no wrong path to file) THEN the 'simple' command is way more convenient
22:12.25*** join/#maemo guille_ (~user@73.Red-83-61-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
22:12.41DocScrutinizer51s/ple' command/ple' method/
22:13.05DocScrutinizer51thanks infobot
22:13.13DocScrutinizer51~useless
22:13.13infobotACTION starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer51 in the darkest corner of the room. :(
22:13.35BCMMpats infobot
22:14.01o0-Dan-0oman i did read the guide didnt see anything about simple or complicated way
22:14.45DocScrutinizer51o0-Dan-0o: just do it like explained at ~flashing
22:22.09DocScrutinizer51the 'simple' way is as explained above, flashing combined first and IMMEDIATELY after flash vanilla, without booting, unplugging or anything else between both
22:22.27o0-Dan-0ooki
22:22.40o0-Dan-0oty
22:23.10o0-Dan-0othe -R stands for read?
22:23.25DocScrutinizer51the 'complicated' but foolproof method is to start flasher vanilla, then plug in device, then insert battery to device while holding 'u'
22:24.02DocScrutinizer51-R is Reboot and is exactly what you MUST NOT do on simple method
22:24.51DocScrutinizer51complicated step 2: do the same procedure for combined
22:25.18DocScrutinizer51(start flasher, plug in, insert bat)
22:26.23DocScrutinizer51nobody actually needs -R
22:27.33o0-Dan-0oeither way having battery on the device i'll always be able to save it if it goes wrong yeah
22:27.45DocScrutinizer5170% of failing flashings are caused by -R, as users don't understand -R *does* reboot the system
22:27.46o0-Dan-0o...my baby
22:27.55o0-Dan-0osniff..
22:28.00o0-Dan-0o:x
22:28.27DocScrutinizer51you can not 'brick' the N900 by flasher oopsies
22:28.43o0-Dan-0ohehe =) nice
22:28.52Sazpaimon_N900 can only do 16 bit color right?
22:29.09DocScrutinizer51yep
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22:30.24Sazpaimon_well, that explains why this gles render i'm using isnt working
22:30.31Sazpaimon_its forcing a 32 bit color setting
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22:53.35o0-Dan-0oX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: %m
22:54.12o0-Dan-0odang even after doing the win7 x64 workaround it doesnt work
22:55.43DocScrutinizer51%m means file not found. check your path to file
22:56.13o0-Dan-0odoh!
22:56.19o0-Dan-0our right
22:56.37o0-Dan-0othx
22:57.25o0-Dan-0oim so sleepy but i want this done so i can take my baby to work tommorrow morning ^
22:57.30o0-Dan-0o^^
22:59.55o0-Dan-0owoot
23:00.21o0-Dan-0oDocScrutinizer,  youre the *
23:00.25o0-Dan-0o:D
23:01.04o0-Dan-0ocr*p
23:01.27o0-Dan-0ocombined done
23:01.46o0-Dan-0obut vanilla
23:01.50o0-Dan-0odidnt
23:02.09o0-Dan-0oit seems it disconnected the phone
23:02.26o0-Dan-0odamn win x64!?
23:02.37o0-Dan-0owhat now =(
23:02.39DocScrutinizer51see? that's why I suggest the 'complicated' way
23:03.04o0-Dan-0oyeah
23:03.27o0-Dan-0onow what start over?
23:03.56o0-Dan-0omaybe do vanilla 1st
23:04.18jacekowskiyou're still trying to flash it?
23:04.25DocScrutinizeryes, start with flashing VANILLA, the way explained in ~flashing (start flasher, plug in device, then insert battery while holding 'u')
23:04.38o0-Dan-0othe device is connected to the usb
23:05.02DocScrutinizerthen when done remove battery and start over same procedure, now for COMBINED
23:05.12o0-Dan-0obut it seems its disconnected nokia simbol not there windows tryed to recognize the device but it didnt
23:05.18o0-Dan-0o(win7 x64)
23:05.32DocScrutinizerthat's unelated to 64
23:06.33DocScrutinizeryou just ran into one of teh plenty DONT's with 'simple' method, and MohammadAG never wants to understand there are any
23:07.29jacekowskiworks for me
23:07.33DocScrutinizerthat's why he laways suggests to flash combined first, as simple method doesn't work with vanilla first
23:07.34jacekowskiyour method is overcomplicated
23:07.54DocScrutinizerit's failsafe
23:08.02DocScrutinizerit *always* works
23:08.05*** join/#maemo McMAGIC-- (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--)
23:08.06jacekowskiif o0-Dan-0o has not managed to flash it in 2h now then he should just give up
23:08.13*** join/#maemo borism_ (~boris@ec2-46-137-99-139.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
23:08.17DocScrutinizerhaha
23:09.16o0-Dan-0oit wont do the vanilla
23:09.29jacekowskiwhat is the message?
23:09.36jacekowskishow whole log to pastebin.com
23:09.40jacekowskipaste*
23:09.52o0-Dan-0oBooting device into flash mode.
23:09.52o0-Dan-0oSuitable USB device not found, waiting.
23:10.15jacekowskio0-Dan-0o: which version of flasher do you have?
23:10.25jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: btw. it looks like nolo can coldflash dead rapuyama
23:10.47*** join/#maemo an0therb0x (~priest@pool-96-255-88-180.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
23:10.50o0-Dan-0ohttp://pastebin.com/zr1aHKyd
23:11.04jacekowskiwell, that's obvious
23:11.11jacekowskibut i think now how it's doing it
23:11.22jacekowskibuehehehehehehehehe
23:11.26jacekowskiflasher v2.5.2 (Sep 24 2009)7
23:11.31jacekowskiuse flasher 3.5
23:11.36jacekowskithat's only working flasher for n900
23:11.49DocScrutinizerjacekowski: flasher 3.5 reports like that afaik
23:12.00o0-Dan-0othe link and the .exe said it was 3.5
23:12.30DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: yes, don't get confused by what jacekowski tells you :-)
23:12.51jacekowskio0-Dan-0o: are you running it as administrator?
23:12.53DocScrutinizeryou got the correct flasher, otherwise it hadn't flashed COMBINED
23:13.12jacekowskio0-Dan-0o: i mean right click on cmd -> run as administrator
23:13.15DocScrutinizeryou also run it as admin otherwise it hadn't...
23:13.29o0-Dan-0othe flasher did the COMBINED just fine
23:13.46o0-Dan-0oso i guess it's not a permission problem
23:13.56o0-Dan-0oright
23:14.06o0-Dan-0o?
23:14.39jacekowskiit's 64 bit windows problem
23:14.52o0-Dan-0oi guess
23:16.07DocScrutinizerjacekowski: how that???
23:16.34o0-Dan-0odid run cmd as admins as expected nothing
23:16.34pupnikwoohoo found my segfault
23:16.44DocScrutinizeris 64 incompatible with vanilla or what?
23:16.48jacekowskidunno
23:16.57jacekowskibut so far everybody who had that problem had 64 bit windows
23:16.59DocScrutinizeryeah, but it's a 64 problem
23:17.02jacekowskinever seen it happen on 32bit
23:17.49DocScrutinizermeh
23:18.28DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o has attached the device while it booted, so windows has loaded some friggin driver.
23:18.32jacekowski64bit is for people that have too much free time
23:18.43pupnikmy feelings also jacekowski
23:19.14DocScrutinizero0-Dan-0o: reboot windows, then start over again, with switched off (battery out) device plugged in in to started flasher, then insert battery
23:19.20jacekowskihmm, what about checking what drivers are installed after flasher reboots phone
23:19.49DocScrutinizerobviously a thing for people with too much time
23:20.16o0-Dan-0oi have a winxp machine
23:20.22DocScrutinizerI have NFC how to check *anything* on redmond virus
23:20.28o0-Dan-0obetter go start there right
23:20.34o0-Dan-0oxp(x86)
23:20.43DocScrutinizerso what?
23:21.08DocScrutinizerare you going to flash your device now? or are we going to debug and debate windoze?
23:21.27o0-Dan-0oi will flash
23:23.01*** join/#maemo mtnbkr (~mtnbkr@75-150-91-17-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
23:26.55pupnik"they're made of meat?   meat."
23:29.44o0-Dan-0odone x86 ftmfw
23:29.47o0-Dan-0o;)
23:30.09o0-Dan-0ohave to go to work at 6am
23:30.35o0-Dan-0o1st boot takes longer than usual?
23:30.55o0-Dan-0oi just see the dots
23:31.00jacekowskiyes
23:31.02jacekowskia lot longer
23:31.10o0-Dan-0oaaaaah
23:31.11o0-Dan-0o=)
23:31.16jacekowskiit copies stuff to emmc
23:31.53o0-Dan-0oran like a champ in winxp x86
23:32.01o0-Dan-0othanks guys
23:32.13o0-Dan-0ocya later
23:32.17o0-Dan-0o[[]]
23:32.25DocScrutinizer51seems the overly complicated method worked?
23:33.09o0-Dan-0onot realy simple as it gets "plug and play"
23:33.27o0-Dan-0oplug > run > run > done!
23:33.50o0-Dan-0ox64 = bad
23:33.57jacekowskiit does work like that
23:34.00jacekowskiunless you hit a problem
23:34.48o0-Dan-0oanyway [[]]
23:34.54o0-Dan-0olaterz
23:35.01o0-Dan-0o=)
23:35.03pupnikds3: around?
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23:42.53ds3pupnik, yes?
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23:45.14pupnikds3 just built stella for n900 but i can't find my old changelog
23:45.43pupnikds3: anyway if it 'basically works' maybe you could test
23:45.48ds3okay, give me link
23:45.58ds3I am guessing I need to force uninstall to pick it up?
23:46.28pupnikwell i have to see if it runs at all - catch you in a few
23:46.59ds3okay
23:48.44GAN900apparently missed Martha Stewart at work today.
23:54.12pupnikds3: what kinds of frames per second were you getting?
23:55.43ds3didn't check but the movement speed was sufficient
23:56.30pupniklooking for reasonable key assignments
23:57.58pupnikds3: can you reassign keys in a config file somewhere?

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