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| 00:28.07 | Saz|Mobile | so i got remmina working on my n900 |
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| 00:28.40 | Saz|Mobile | still need to add the freerdp and nx plugins, but the interface is working |
| 00:28.52 | Saz|Mobile | completely unhildonized though |
| 00:29.26 | SpeedEvil | :) |
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| 00:30.55 | Saz|Mobile | i had to add a few workarounds because it requires gtk 2.16, so as a result a couple icons are busted |
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| 00:31.10 | Saz|Mobile | and i probably broke the systray |
| 00:31.30 | Saz|Mobile | neither of which matter when it becomes hildonized though |
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| 01:38.07 | Sazpaimon__ | well |
| 01:38.18 | Sazpaimon__ | remmina is working with rdp now |
| 01:38.38 | Sazpaimon__ | nice and fast |
| 01:40.39 | Sazpaimon__ | i cant seem to use shift keys |
| 01:41.08 | Sazpaimon__ | no wait, i can use shit but not fn |
| 01:41.43 | Sazpaimon__ | and the fullscreen bar doesnt come up |
| 01:41.59 | Sazpaimon__ | its a straight port |
| 01:42.20 | Sazpaimon__ | so naturally its not gonna be perfect |
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| 02:13.09 | internetishard | In the media player, when selecting an album for example, what's it doing while it is taking so long to display the songs? I mean, it is flash memory... |
| 02:13.31 | ShadowJK | lol flash memory |
| 02:14.38 | ShadowJK | how long is "long" anyway? it's pretty much only the time it takes to animate the slide for me |
| 02:19.51 | timeless_w7ip | internetishard: how much music do you have? |
| 02:19.59 | timeless_w7ip | and please note that there are 2 diffferent kinds of flash memory in the n900 |
| 02:20.11 | timeless_w7ip | the one the os used to live on and the one where your data is stored |
| 02:20.18 | timeless_w7ip | your data is stored on the larger slower one |
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| 02:21.42 | lcuk | internetishard, when you open an album, it sends an email to the artist who has to drive to the recording studio, wake up the rest of the band, make a new recording |
| 02:21.49 | lcuk | and this happens EVERY TIME you press play |
| 02:22.08 | timeless_w7ip | and twice when you press fast forward? :) |
| 02:22.24 | lcuk | yeah! *g* |
| 02:23.04 | lcuk | internetishard, it really depends what else is happening on your machine, but when I start an album it works |
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| 02:34.11 | Sazpaimon__ | so if I knew enough about maemo's gtk hackup I might be able to remmina nomalized on hildon |
| 02:35.40 | internetishard | thanks lcuk |
| 02:35.50 | internetishard | Yeah, I guess I've a lot of music |
| 02:35.59 | internetishard | It shouldn't take like 20s to load though |
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| 02:46.19 | timeless_w7ip | i hate to ask |
| 02:46.27 | timeless_w7ip | are you running the latest firmware? |
| 02:46.34 | internetishard | yep |
| 02:46.43 | timeless_w7ip | which is? |
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| 02:49.38 | internetishard | sorry, someone walked in |
| 02:49.40 | internetishard | How do I check |
| 02:49.53 | internetishard | I let it update to the latest whenever an update comes up |
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| 02:51.51 | timeless_w7ip | settings>about |
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| 03:28.32 | Sazpaimon__ | is anyone interested in this remmina port or is it just me |
| 03:28.41 | internetishard | timeless_w7ip: 20.2010.36-2.002 |
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| 03:34.18 | nox- | Sazpaimon__, there's a vnc client too so i suspect some will... |
| 03:34.55 | nox- | will be |
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| 03:39.13 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, do the port for yourself and upload it and talk about it :) |
| 03:39.20 | lcuk | screenshots help! |
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| 03:51.30 | Sazpaimon__ | nox-, NX client too |
| 03:51.40 | Sazpaimon__ | i havent tested either, just the RDP client |
| 03:51.49 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, like I said, I already 'ported' t |
| 03:51.50 | Sazpaimon__ | *it |
| 03:52.02 | Sazpaimon__ | it isnt hildonized though |
| 03:52.04 | nox- | yeah good stuff for those that need it :) |
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| 04:00.01 | Sazpaimon__ | nox-, i dont know enough about maemo's dpkg differences, though |
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| 04:00.28 | Sazpaimon__ | i just did a straight debian dpkg-buildpackage of the sid repository on the sdk |
| 04:00.41 | Sazpaimon__ | are there any differences on the package building process |
| 04:01.04 | nox- | im not deep enough into this yet to know that... |
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| 04:28.57 | djszapi | How can I reflesh maemo onto my memory, unfortunately I made a 'dd' operation for that partition while trying to make a 'dd' with the meego image instead of the sd card ? |
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| 05:32.41 | internetishard | what's the latest firmware? |
| 05:32.46 | internetishard | 20.2010.36-2.002 ? |
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| 06:58.03 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 06:59.56 | mece | Jaffa, \o |
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| 07:14.27 | djszapi | I accidentally deleted the emmc content of my N900 gadget, which image should I copy onto the emmc ? |
| 07:16.00 | lcuk | djszapi, ;) morning. both, as per: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 |
| 07:16.00 | djszapi | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 -> maybe this one ? |
| 07:16.21 | djszapi | lcuk: I was lucky. |
| 07:16.32 | djszapi | the usb mass storage works just fine with the rescue menu |
| 07:16.39 | djszapi | I mean I see the EMMC from the host. |
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| 07:19.13 | djszapi | lcuk: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php -> I have no idea what the production id is |
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| 07:20.42 | lcuk | djszapi, it tells you where it is printed |
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| 07:22.16 | djszapi | no clue which image to download |
| 07:22.51 | jacekowski | djszapi: it's imei |
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| 07:23.10 | djszapi | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 07:23.14 | djszapi | ? |
| 07:23.40 | djszapi | yeah, seems this one. |
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| 07:24.24 | djszapi | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -> ohh this is newer |
| 07:24.55 | pupnik | which /join #Economics |
| 07:24.59 | pupnik | hah oops |
| 07:25.13 | djszapi | pupnik: :-) |
| 07:25.46 | pupnik | there is no undo in life! |
| 07:26.28 | pupnik | what u doingk djszapi - reflashing a n900? |
| 07:27.09 | pupnik | http://www.failepicfail.com//epic-fail/1011/dorito-fail-theone-epic-fail-1291155392.jpg here is a weird weird sfw picture |
| 07:27.26 | pupnik | can anyone here read japanese? |
| 07:27.47 | derf | Of course. |
| 07:28.02 | pupnik | please translate picture |
| 07:30.30 | djszapi | lcuk: ERROR: APE algorithm has to be provided to flash all the subimages |
| 07:30.46 | djszapi | lcuk: http://paste.kde.org/8508/ |
| 07:31.20 | jacekowski | djszapi: fiasco first then emmc |
| 07:31.31 | jacekowski | djszapi: and use n900 flasher |
| 07:31.39 | jacekowski | djszapi: not n8x0 flasher |
| 07:31.56 | jacekowski | djszapi: 3.5 is for n900 |
| 07:32.15 | lcuk | jacekowski, :) that is later flasher |
| 07:32.31 | jacekowski | no it's not |
| 07:32.35 | jacekowski | flasher 3.10.5 (Feb 14 2011) Harmattan |
| 07:32.40 | derf | pupnik: "Electric Anma Revival". I have no idea what "Anma" is. |
| 07:32.42 | jacekowski | ah |
| 07:32.43 | jacekowski | it is |
| 07:32.45 | lcuk | that is certainly not n8x0 |
| 07:32.45 | djszapi | well, I just deleted the emmc, not sure why I need the fiasco, if that was not deleted... |
| 07:32.49 | lcuk | giggles |
| 07:32.59 | djszapi | jacekowski: lcuk is right |
| 07:33.00 | jacekowski | lcuk: i looked at it like 50 vs 10 |
| 07:33.06 | djszapi | nooo... |
| 07:33.10 | jacekowski | i'm not fully woken up yet |
| 07:33.15 | djszapi | :-) |
| 07:33.18 | jacekowski | still, try 3.5 |
| 07:33.19 | lcuk | nor is djszapi :) |
| 07:33.22 | jacekowski | i know it works |
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| 07:33.55 | lcuk | djszapi, you need to reflash both because unfortunately, optification moves some files onto the emmc |
| 07:34.08 | lcuk | so if you just flashed the emmc, you bootup with no fonts or themes etc |
| 07:34.22 | lcuk | and half the app data missing |
| 07:34.28 | pupnik | derf: that's too weird for brain. why do they do stuff like that? |
| 07:34.31 | lcuk | so, you have to reflash emmc as well as rootfs |
| 07:34.44 | derf | Because it's Japan. Japan is like that, all the time. |
| 07:35.41 | djszapi | is this the proposed fiasco image for flashing ? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
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| 07:36.52 | djszapi | lcuk ^ |
| 07:38.11 | lcuk | that looks right djszapi yes. |
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| 07:41.51 | djszapi | lcuk: same output for the fiasco image. |
| 07:42.07 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: use flasher on PC |
| 07:42.15 | djszapi | http://paste.kde.org/8511/ |
| 07:42.52 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell djszapi about flashing |
| 07:43.10 | lcuk | djszapi, it is the version of the flasher I think. |
| 07:43.40 | DocScrutinizer | I was never aware there is any new version of flasher for PC |
| 07:44.02 | DocScrutinizer | so I gather you're running that cmd on N900/maemo |
| 07:44.04 | jacekowski | djszapi: and you are in flashing mode on your phone? |
| 07:44.43 | djszapi | jacekowski: good question, what is the flasher option to check that out ? |
| 07:45.00 | jacekowski | djszapi: look at display on a phone |
| 07:45.02 | DocScrutinizer | or you installed some weid flasher version from dunnowhere |
| 07:45.10 | jacekowski | djszapi: does it say NOKIA with small usb logo in a corner |
| 07:45.12 | sandst1 | djszapi: for flashing maemo5 to n900, use the flasher 3.5 from tablets-dev http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php |
| 07:45.21 | djszapi | jacekowski: yup. |
| 07:45.42 | djszapi | sandst1: Actually, I was doing that ;) |
| 07:46.05 | sandst1 | djszapi: this log says 3.10.5?? http://paste.kde.org/8511/ |
| 07:46.15 | jacekowski | is there any ready made converter for n900 .mp4 files to some format that everybody can open |
| 07:46.18 | djszapi | you misunderstood... |
| 07:46.20 | jacekowski | like mpeg or wmv |
| 07:46.32 | jacekowski | djszapi: get flasher from that website |
| 07:46.35 | djszapi | sandst1: after that try I started downloading the 3.5 version.... |
| 07:46.45 | sandst1 | djszapi: ookay. well, that should work |
| 07:47.28 | djszapi | - ./flasher-3.5: error while loading shared libraries: libusb-0.1.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 07:47.28 | alterego | jacekowski: mplayer? vlc? |
| 07:47.32 | sandst1 | jacekowski: try avidemux |
| 07:47.45 | jacekowski | djszapi: install libusb |
| 07:48.09 | djszapi | jacekowski: it is obviously installed ;) |
| 07:48.26 | djszapi | otherwise my system would behave kinda nasty otherwise. |
| 07:48.41 | djszapi | seems not compatible with this libusb version. |
| 07:49.00 | djszapi | ohh yes, because of the lib32-libusb-compat and x86_^4 story. |
| 07:49.03 | djszapi | x86_64 story |
| 07:49.05 | djszapi | sighs |
| 07:49.41 | djszapi | I have never understood why flasher was not done for the x86_64 architecture, never really understood. Most of the people use x86_64 nowadays. |
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| 07:50.10 | robbiethe1st | djszapi: I dunno, but I never had any trouble with x86_64 Ubuntu or Debian... |
| 07:50.57 | djszapi | robbiethe1st: can you give me an x86_64 flasher binary, please ? |
| 07:51.07 | DocScrutinizer | there's none |
| 07:51.09 | robbiethe1st | I just used the standard 32-bit one |
| 07:51.14 | robbiethe1st | It just worked (tm) |
| 07:51.43 | djszapi | apparently overhead for archlinux users. |
| 07:51.48 | DocScrutinizer | you need the 32bit compatibility libs on your system (sorry not awake, so ask somebody who is) |
| 07:51.50 | djszapi | and system messing. |
| 07:52.01 | keithzg | gotta have the compat libs installed though, right? I swear I remember doing so and it still didn't work. |
| 07:52.18 | keithzg | I just pulled out a spare 32-bit laptop and used it, last time I had to reflash |
| 07:52.25 | robbiethe1st | I just grabbed the .tar.gz file, extracted the binary, and ran it as root. easy. Oh, and I think I had to rmmod the cdc_phonet and phonet modules IIRC |
| 07:52.52 | DocScrutinizer | good point |
| 07:52.52 | djszapi | lcuk jacekowski: http://paste.kde.org/8512/ |
| 07:53.30 | keithzg | I wonder if a 32-bit Virtualbox session would work |
| 07:53.48 | djszapi | keithzg: I think it is enough if mess up your system |
| 07:53.53 | djszapi | * you |
| 07:53.57 | keithzg | is tempted to try |
| 07:54.04 | djszapi | but I would expect a cleaner solution from the flasher guys :) |
| 07:54.06 | lcuk | djszapi, lol you are not having much luck this morning. |
| 07:54.12 | robbiethe1st | You're gonna need to run the non-OSS version IIRC, because of the USB device support? |
| 07:54.18 | djszapi | lcuk: what is wrong about that this time ? ;) |
| 07:54.27 | robbiethe1st | Or, just throw a Ubuntu LiveCD in the drive |
| 07:54.28 | lcuk | so the first flash worked but then you could not flash the second part |
| 07:54.29 | robbiethe1st | use that |
| 07:54.32 | lcuk | that seems off |
| 07:54.37 | keithzg | yeah, sadly the OSS version doesn't have USB support |
| 07:54.41 | djszapi | lcuk: 'off' ? |
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| 07:55.20 | lcuk | djszapi, "off" == something not quite right. since your computer did connect and flash once |
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| 07:55.42 | lcuk | try command again with your n900 in the flashing mode thingy, just like you did for the first image |
| 07:56.01 | djszapi | well, I can flash the fiasco image, but not the MMC |
| 07:56.13 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: PLEASE READ THE ~flashing PAGE |
| 07:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | you are NOT supposed to use -R |
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| 07:57.36 | djszapi | lcuk: k, I cannot now flash the fiasco either. |
| 07:57.49 | lcuk | reboot laptop |
| 07:57.50 | djszapi | seems the first fiasco flashing made it go to haywire. |
| 07:58.03 | lcuk | I once had bug for a few weeks where I could only flash one image per reboot |
| 07:58.15 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: PLEASE READ THE ~flashing PAGE |
| 07:58.16 | lcuk | something gremlinish in the usb drivers |
| 07:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | ALL OF IT |
| 07:58.31 | lcuk | updating my laptop os worked and not seen it since |
| 08:00.11 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-03-30 09:52:25] <robbiethe1st> ... Oh, and I think I had to rmmod the cdc_phonet and phonet modules IIRC |
| 08:00.42 | djszapi | mmh...lcuk: no u-boot :) |
| 08:00.52 | djszapi | seems the fiasco flashing destroys it. |
| 08:01.03 | DocScrutinizer | of course it does |
| 08:02.55 | keithzg | hmmm wait has the N900 ceased production? It's disappeared from Amazon.ca and Omega Cell. |
| 08:03.24 | keithzg | ...this might become a problem if the meego device doesn't turn out to be a handset and I never bought a spare N900 . . . |
| 08:04.29 | robbiethe1st | Ebay? |
| 08:04.39 | Trewas | it hasn't been available in nokia store for a few months |
| 08:04.52 | Veggen | I just hope that the one who ended up with my N900 which I lost in a taxi in Dubai was a geek who became happy with it ;) |
| 08:05.12 | keithzg | feels uneasy now |
| 08:06.18 | keithzg | I'd much rather buy a new, retail one than eBay or such (especially since shipping electronics into Canada is surprisingly expensive sometimes) |
| 08:06.56 | djszapi | lcuk: just reinstall 'uboot-pr13' ? |
| 08:07.08 | lcuk | djszapi, IDK, not using uboot myself |
| 08:07.15 | djszapi | oh ok |
| 08:07.27 | djszapi | how do you make the dual boot with meego then ? you do not ? |
| 08:07.40 | keithzg | thinks that if the last Nokia linux device doesn't turn out to be a handset, now, going to finally feel that much-delayed sting of betrayal |
| 08:08.20 | lcuk | I boot from flashing the kernel, I have to stay attached to USB for other reasons anyway, so it never seemed much bother |
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| 08:08.56 | djszapi | wow :) |
| 08:09.06 | djszapi | I am not attached to USB on the bus, or on the way at home ;) |
| 08:09.12 | djszapi | or in a bar, etc :p |
| 08:09.37 | Trewas | didn't they already announce that they'll announce (heh) the new harmattan phone in some meego conference in may? |
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| 08:09.58 | keithzg | Nope |
| 08:10.12 | keithzg | they'll be almost certainly announcing a new *device* |
| 08:10.20 | keithzg | they've never, ever specifically said that it'll be a handset |
| 08:10.27 | DocScrutinizer | fails to see why anybody would want to boot meego while riding a bus |
| 08:10.46 | keithzg | and they've submitted diagrams for tablets to the FCC, so . . . |
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| 08:11.45 | keithzg | don't get me wrong, a proper Linux tablet would be really cool, but if they remove the N900 from the market and mine breaks, what the hell am I going to do for a phone? |
| 08:12.16 | Trewas | keithzg: but they did say it will be harmattan and not meego proper, which have never been intended for tablets |
| 08:12.25 | timeless_w7ip | keithzg: do they still have phone booths where you live? |
| 08:12.34 | timeless_w7ip | (it worked for clark kent!) |
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| 08:13.31 | keithzg | Trewas: it's "Harmattan" in a large part because their build and development infrastructure is still their own (ex. Debian-based) |
| 08:14.10 | keithzg | remember, all the Maemo devices before the N900 were tablets too, albeit of that earlier breed; for their final Linux device to be a non-phone wouldn't be unprecedented |
| 08:14.24 | DocScrutinizer | keithzg: btw "production" of N900 probably stopped mid of last year the latest |
| 08:14.53 | DocScrutinizer | keithzg: I don't think Nokia is building to order in batches of 12 |
| 08:14.55 | keithzg | timeless_w7ip: Heh, well I have spare phones I could use instead, but I hardly ever use my N900 for phoning! |
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| 08:15.29 | DocScrutinizer | keithzg: It's like printing books (been in the old days) |
| 08:16.15 | keithzg | DocScrutinizer: If they're gearing up for an N900-alike new device, that's alright. But if not, then all us huge geeks out here will be left without a proper Linux-based phone. The closest will be WebOS! |
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| 08:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | keithzg: fab line is ramped up for RX-51 (two weeks), a first test batch of maybe 1000 is produced (6h) and analyzed for shield, then fab line gets some adjustments, and they run it for like 4 weeks to produce some million devices. Then sell those |
| 08:18.49 | DocScrutinizer | s/shield/yield/ |
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| 08:20.58 | DocScrutinizer | keithzg: there'll be some 100,000 NEW original devices N900 on shelf, to sell. I don't think they ran short of devices |
| 08:21.22 | DocScrutinizer | it's another story when they stop advertising it |
| 08:22.27 | keithzg | DocScrutinizer: Problem is, it seems to have disappeared from stores that don't even have shelves, thus don't need to keep inventory themselves. When it runs out at those sorts of places, then I start to think they aren't selling it to anyone anymore. |
| 08:24.04 | keithzg | Hmmm, it's still available on Amazon.com though. Okay, Step #2: Befriend someone living in the U.S., haha |
| 08:24.20 | DocScrutinizer | keithzg: those shops don't sell devices that aren't contributing to their profit. There's a time where you kick an item from your list of products you sell, as the maintenance of the page costs more than the few devices sold earn you |
| 08:25.14 | keithzg | DocScrutinizer: Amazon is NOT one of those kinds of sites, not for a moment. They have the most ridiculously obscure stuff listed, as long as there's still one person out there who might buy it it's worth it for them. |
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| 08:25.54 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 08:26.03 | keithzg | It's still up there on the Amazon.ca site. |
| 08:26.17 | keithzg | The page is still there, it's just unavailable: http://www.amazon.ca/N900-Nokia-Maemo-Smartphone/dp/B002OB49SW |
| 08:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | I honestly fail to see your problem |
| 08:27.26 | chx | why the canadian? |
| 08:27.30 | chx | it's up on the .com site. |
| 08:27.39 | keithzg | yeah, but they refuse to ship to Canada |
| 08:28.08 | DocScrutinizer | keithzg: so obviously Nokia stopped to produce N900 in Canada ;-P |
| 08:28.10 | chx | and that stops you? (I am in Canada too.) |
| 08:28.30 | keithzg | Well, yeah. I live pretty far from the border, heh. |
| 08:28.36 | timeless_w7ip | docscrutinizer: wait, did we ever *start* advertising it? |
| 08:28.36 | chx | meh |
| 08:28.44 | chx | you dont have an american friend? |
| 08:28.52 | chx | or , heaven forbid, google :P ? |
| 08:28.52 | keithzg | Surprisingly, no. |
| 08:28.53 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: sure |
| 08:29.04 | chx | there are many remailers |
| 08:29.34 | keithzg | Yeah I know, I suppose I could go that route, it just adds an extra layer where something could go wrong |
| 08:29.55 | chx | no pain, no gain |
| 08:30.06 | pupnik | advertising is super expensive and needs to have a return on investment... do you think that n900 could have had a ROI for advertising dollars timeless_w7ip ? |
| 08:30.06 | keithzg | And I've had bad experiences with Canadian customs deciding things needed serious taxing before. |
| 08:30.29 | chx | serious??? |
| 08:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_w7ip: e.g. -> http://shop.nokia.de/nokia-de/product.aspx?sku=6958534 witch now also shows "not found" for the first time. " weeks ago it was still available there |
| 08:30.50 | pupnik | noo :( |
| 08:30.52 | DocScrutinizer | s/"/2/ |
| 08:30.57 | pupnik | our beloved n900 |
| 08:30.59 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
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| 08:31.20 | keithzg | "meh"? really? |
| 08:31.48 | chx | the end is near, stockpile n900 while you can. |
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| 08:33.19 | pupnik | i hope the nakio e900 gets released soon ;) |
| 08:33.22 | keithzg | If only there was some way of getting warning if the N900 was going to go out of stock on Amazon.com, then I could wait for a Nokia "turns out our sole MeeGo device is a handset after all!" announcment until the last minute. |
| 08:33.33 | DocScrutinizer | as long as there's "buy now" for "NEW" N900 on ebaeh... I'm not worried |
| 08:34.04 | keithzg | Yeah, but once it's not available for $350 on Amazon.com the market price is going to start creeping up again. |
| 08:34.27 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 08:34.28 | keithzg | Or maybe outright jump. |
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| 08:34.50 | nakkimakkara | Hi? =) |
| 08:35.02 | pupnik | . |
| 08:35.09 | keithzg | Those people gotta get it from somewhere, and nobody's going to sell terribly far below recouping their costs. |
| 08:35.30 | nakkimakkara | I just owerwrited /bin/sh... anyother way get it back than reflashing? =) |
| 08:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | nakkimakkara: /bin/sh is a symlink |
| 08:36.49 | pupnik | ln -s buszbox sh |
| 08:36.51 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ls -l /bin/sh |
| 08:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2010-06-23 06:13 /bin/sh -> busybox |
| 08:37.23 | jacekowski | well, most of stuff would overwrite original |
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| 08:37.28 | jacekowski | and symlink would stay |
| 08:37.35 | jacekowski | so his busybox is probably replaced |
| 08:37.44 | DocScrutinizer | GOOD! ;-P |
| 08:37.58 | nakkimakkara | I just shutted off my n900 and now it no boot.. NOKIA logo comes and shutting down after about 30sec |
| 08:38.16 | pupnik | :( |
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| 08:38.25 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, yeah, you nuked messybox then |
| 08:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | reflashing rootfs should be the easiest fix |
| 08:39.06 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: you're a good egg |
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| 08:40.12 | jacekowski | FFS |
| 08:40.24 | jacekowski | how to convert these useless mp4 files to something usable |
| 08:40.43 | chx | well shutting it down was not the best idea :( |
| 08:40.49 | DocScrutinizer | nakkimakkara: you might want to give rescue-initrd a try, and restore /bin/sh (and /bin/busybox) |
| 08:41.01 | chx | before that you prolly could've plugged in usb |
| 08:41.29 | pupnik | coulda woulda shoulda |
| 08:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | reflash! |
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| 08:43.57 | pupnik | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=978304&postcount=32 |
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| 08:44.46 | nakkimakkara | Reflashing edit partitions? |
| 08:45.06 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: LOL |
| 08:45.12 | DocScrutinizer | nakkimakkara: sorry? |
| 08:46.32 | keithzg | "useless" mp4 files? What the hell can't play mp4 in this day and age? |
| 08:46.55 | nakkimakkara | reflashing edit partitions or not? |
| 08:47.03 | DocScrutinizer | nakkimakkara: sorry? |
| 08:47.22 | pupnik | nakkimakkara: the question is not possible to answer |
| 08:47.34 | nakkimakkara | Why? =D |
| 08:47.39 | DocScrutinizer | the question does not make sense |
| 08:48.10 | keithzg | jacekowski: is there a specific reason why you need to use a format other than mp4? |
| 08:48.41 | jacekowski | yes |
| 08:48.45 | jacekowski | nobody can play mp4 |
| 08:48.58 | keithzg | who ARE these people that can't play mp4 files? |
| 08:49.08 | keithzg | I mean, they even work on my phone! :P |
| 08:49.19 | jacekowski | anybody who has work computer |
| 08:49.21 | keithzg | ...apologies, that was a bit snide, but I do mean that. |
| 08:49.24 | jacekowski | like here |
| 08:49.32 | jacekowski | because there is no codecs installed |
| 08:49.34 | keithzg | Just run VLC on it |
| 08:49.39 | jacekowski | as people are not supposed to watch movies |
| 08:49.45 | jacekowski | and i want to send it to some places |
| 08:50.03 | DocScrutinizer | suggests a link to youtube then |
| 08:50.14 | keithzg | agrees with the good doctor! |
| 08:50.21 | keithzg | that was exactly what I was about to say. |
| 08:50.35 | jacekowski | again, blocked in lot of places |
| 08:50.36 | keithzg | And of course, even the N900 itself could convert the files to other formats |
| 08:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: so you're talking about an uphill battle |
| 08:51.05 | jacekowski | i want to convert that shitty mp4 format to normal wmv |
| 08:51.11 | jacekowski | but nothing is touching mp4 |
| 08:51.18 | keithzg | ummmmm wmv is shitty |
| 08:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | you want to enable something that sysadmins of your recipients' boxes actively fight |
| 08:51.22 | jacekowski | no |
| 08:51.25 | jacekowski | wmv just works |
| 08:51.25 | keithzg | it's proprietary and impossible to work with |
| 08:51.39 | keithzg | apparently you're using Windows, and I'm using Linux ;) |
| 08:51.48 | jacekowski | or mpeg |
| 08:51.54 | jacekowski | i would be happy with mpeg |
| 08:51.56 | keithzg | mpeg, that's easy to work with |
| 08:52.07 | keithzg | you could convert to that with your N900 itself, I do believe |
| 08:52.26 | keithzg | not aware of any graphical program, but mencoder or ffmpeg should do the trick easily |
| 08:53.29 | jacekowski | heh |
| 08:53.39 | jacekowski | VIDEO: [YV12] 848x480 12bpp 1000.000 fps 120921.5 kbps (14760.9 kbyte/s) |
| 08:53.43 | jacekowski | that's where the problem is |
| 08:53.47 | jacekowski | 1000fps |
| 08:53.52 | keithzg | wtf |
| 08:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | anticipates jacekowski's next question: "how to attach a 2MB media file to a mail to somebody who isn't allowed to receive *any* attachments?" |
| 08:53.57 | jacekowski | fucking morons at nokia |
| 08:54.06 | keithzg | it can't be 1000fps |
| 08:54.09 | keithzg | something's misreading that |
| 08:54.13 | jacekowski | no |
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| 08:55.06 | jacekowski | -ofps 25 |
| 08:55.13 | jacekowski | and it maybe will work |
| 08:55.13 | pupnik | it would be cool if our brains worked 10x faster |
| 08:55.20 | DocScrutinizer | how the fsck is that related to Nokia? |
| 08:55.38 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's what mencoder says when i encode file that came from n900 |
| 08:55.46 | keithzg | See, that's wrong. |
| 08:56.06 | keithzg | That's not what the video framerate the camera app takes is. |
| 08:56.08 | DocScrutinizer | I'm notorious to insult Nokians (though never anybody personally), but please consider if it's justified before you utter such things |
| 08:56.34 | jacekowski | it's not, but that's what it writes to file |
| 08:56.48 | keithzg | that's what mencoder is saying for some reason |
| 08:57.04 | keithzg | when I open the videos I take, it never says anything like that. |
| 08:57.29 | keithzg | So it seems unlikely that the problem would lie with any code from Nokia. |
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| 09:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | it would be megacool *if* the camera could take video @ 1000 fps :-D |
| 09:01.17 | philurich | haha |
| 09:01.32 | philurich | man that would be awesome |
| 09:01.42 | philurich | Nokia *does* always have the best cameras |
| 09:01.44 | *** join/#maemo Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.1.43) |
| 09:02.30 | lcuk | well DocScrutinizer |
| 09:02.32 | nid0 | would be nice to have class15 microsd's that could actually write the output, too |
| 09:02.33 | DocScrutinizer | actually I'd be happy with something like 200fps |
| 09:02.41 | lcuk | display output framerate includes as you decrease resolution |
| 09:02.47 | lcuk | I believe the camera does the same |
| 09:02.49 | jacekowski | hmm, i looked at mp4 file |
| 09:02.58 | lcuk | so you might get close at pixel size -1*-1 |
| 09:02.58 | jacekowski | and headers says 1000fps |
| 09:03.06 | jacekowski | but stream header says 25 |
| 09:03.18 | jacekowski | it's nokia fuck up |
| 09:03.46 | DocScrutinizer | it's maybe TI DSP lib fsckup |
| 09:03.56 | lcuk | or the designer specified 1000fps and actual implementation is just a shade under! :P |
| 09:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | it's maybe even mpg4 spec fsckup |
| 09:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | or the fps value has semantics of a multiplier in 0/00 |
| 09:05.12 | *** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@af83-1.dd.bearstech.net) |
| 09:06.51 | DocScrutinizer | like "playback at 1000/1000*25fps |
| 09:07.54 | *** join/#maemo Rarokillo (~Rarok@2.158.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 09:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | there's quite a few error pathes, it's a bit a shot from the hip to blame Nokia about it |
| 09:08.53 | philurich | Stream #0.0(eng): Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 848x480 [PAR 1:1 DAR 53:30], 3462 kb/s, 23.92 fps, 250 tbr, 1k tbn, 30k tbc |
| 09:09.00 | philurich | mine seem perfectly fine. |
| 09:09.25 | philurich | that's all from metadata, obviously |
| 09:09.56 | pupnik | philurich: what is encoding at 848x480? |
| 09:10.06 | pupnik | or rather, for what device do these get created? |
| 09:10.10 | jacekowski | philurich: stream framerates are ok |
| 09:10.21 | jacekowski | philurich: it's just global framerate in file header that's wrong |
| 09:10.24 | philurich | I'm just running mencoder on my videos from the N900's camera |
| 09:10.55 | *** join/#maemo mavhk (~mavhc@cpc4-basf8-2-0-cust689.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
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| 09:11.43 | philurich | jacekowski: I see what you're saying here . . . "stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 30000.00 (30000/1) -> 250.00 (250/1) |
| 09:11.43 | philurich | " |
| 09:11.57 | lcuk | totem tells me an obviously normal 25ishfps video is 3fps |
| 09:11.57 | DocScrutinizer | btw the problem of some videos (even from youtube) playing back at NN* original speed is notorious |
| 09:12.52 | philurich | this is why I prefer .mkv to mp4, way less buggy container format. But of course they needed to go with mp4, since it's the only freely available container that's also widely used. |
| 09:13.26 | DocScrutinizer | suspects a flawed ambiguous spec of fps in mp4 original specifications |
| 09:14.29 | jacekowski | and for more fun mp4 has timecodes for each frame as well |
| 09:14.41 | pupnik | heh |
| 09:14.44 | DocScrutinizer | or a false friend (see version= mess in all maemo .desktop files) |
| 09:15.03 | jacekowski | so when you play mp4 file you have 3 ways of playing it |
| 09:15.04 | philurich | would hardly be surprised, it's what you get when you have a consortium of corporations being the ones decided on spec rather than actual programmers. |
| 09:15.07 | jacekowski | using file framerate |
| 09:15.13 | jacekowski | stream framerate |
| 09:15.14 | jacekowski | timecodes |
| 09:15.41 | pupnik | there might be a good reason for that redundancy |
| 09:16.06 | philurich | ...yeah, because they couldn't get everyone to agree on one of them ;) |
| 09:16.18 | jacekowski | well, whole format came from apple |
| 09:16.25 | pupnik | how about recovery from errors, damaged files |
| 09:16.45 | philurich | yeah, I was being snarky |
| 09:17.01 | philurich | the problem comes when there isn't a primary agreed upon method |
| 09:17.15 | jacekowski | KISS |
| 09:17.21 | jacekowski | Keep It Simple Stupid |
| 09:17.32 | DocScrutinizer | now this debate is utterly useless speculation |
| 09:17.34 | jacekowski | avi dos the job |
| 09:17.38 | jacekowski | does* |
| 09:17.38 | philurich | it's fair enough to have redundancy, but have a clear heirarchy, so that you can predict the use. |
| 09:17.38 | pupnik | yea |
| 09:18.22 | DocScrutinizer | you don't even know IF it is really redundant, or has a proper semantics beyond what everybody thinks it is |
| 09:18.40 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5411.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:19.05 | DocScrutinizer | please read cononical specs, then you got a base for further debates |
| 09:19.44 | DocScrutinizer | suspects the coders of mencoder etc also missed on doing this |
| 09:20.11 | philurich | naw, they're a bright bunch as far as I can tell |
| 09:20.30 | DocScrutinizer | It's quite possible the semantics of fps for the container are NOT what you might like to think it were |
| 09:20.37 | philurich | well sure |
| 09:20.48 | philurich | but they just report that it says something like that, no more. |
| 09:21.21 | philurich | it seems unlikely that they'd be THAT unaware of the spec, if they're the people writing from scratch the implementation |
| 09:21.27 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-03-30 11:05:07] <DocScrutinizer> or the fps value has semantics of a multiplier in 0/00 |
| 09:21.55 | DocScrutinizer | philurich: you'd be surprised |
| 09:22.15 | jacekowski | philurich: mp4 spec is based on old mov spec |
| 09:22.33 | jacekowski | but well, i've converted it now and i'm happy |
| 09:23.09 | philurich | DocScrutinizer: Okay, show me where the code does it then and I'll believe :) but since it is indeed somewhat based on .mov, I suspect a spec problem . . . 'cause that was a shitty container. |
| 09:23.40 | DocScrutinizer | philurich: I'm not going to do anything like that |
| 09:24.01 | philurich | heh you'd be pretty crazy if you did |
| 09:24.09 | jacekowski | hmm, i had some work to do today |
| 09:24.13 | jacekowski | but i don't remember what |
| 09:24.33 | DocScrutinizer | I'm just pointing at the fact everybody here is just handwaving and shouting at Nokia, without any proper knowledge of the facts |
| 09:25.10 | philurich | I'm not claiming anything else, other than that you seem to be doing the same thing about Mencoder! |
| 09:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: send a video of an exploding freq converter to sme Israel manufacturer? ;-D |
| 09:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | philurich: which evidently I didn't |
| 09:26.16 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, i was converting these videos first |
| 09:26.39 | jacekowski | and i have video just before explosion |
| 09:26.42 | jacekowski | not explosion itself |
| 09:27.18 | philurich | "DocScrutinizer suspects the coders of mencoder etc also missed on doing this" sounds like it to me. |
| 09:27.34 | DocScrutinizer | I'd be interested in photos of the converter *after* explosion |
| 09:29.44 | jacekowski | well, it's just a IGBT that exploded |
| 09:29.46 | DocScrutinizer | philurich: I'm >>suspecting<<, not shouting at anybody and calling names on them |
| 09:30.14 | jacekowski | when i'll have it back here i'll make some photos of it |
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| 09:31.12 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: one of the 100A class? |
| 09:31.43 | DocScrutinizer | size of a teacup |
| 09:31.45 | jacekowski | 200A |
| 09:31.49 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 09:32.00 | jacekowski | and guess what is stupid in whole thing |
| 09:32.04 | jacekowski | it has 6 huge capacitors |
| 09:32.09 | jacekowski | 3 on bottom |
| 09:32.11 | jacekowski | 3 on top |
| 09:32.28 | jacekowski | igbts are connected with copper bars |
| 09:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, nice |
| 09:32.47 | jacekowski | and 3 top capacitors are connected directly to these bars |
| 09:32.51 | jacekowski | no fuse |
| 09:33.00 | jacekowski | and bottom capacitors have additional 2 bars |
| 09:33.13 | jacekowski | and fuse to link these bars to igbt bars |
| 09:33.24 | DocScrutinizer | weird shit |
| 09:33.30 | DocScrutinizer | fail |
| 09:33.37 | jacekowski | so if shit happens fuse pops but there is still shitloads energy in capacitors on top that are unfused |
| 09:33.50 | jacekowski | and it has discharging resistor |
| 09:33.51 | jacekowski | s |
| 09:33.56 | DocScrutinizer | fused capacitors - WTF |
| 09:33.59 | jacekowski | but these are connected only to bottom capacitors |
| 09:34.01 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@cl-365.mrs-01.fr.sixxs.net) |
| 09:34.01 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 09:34.09 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: supply is also connected there |
| 09:34.20 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: before fuse |
| 09:34.29 | DocScrutinizer | AAH |
| 09:34.34 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: but idea with fuses is to minimise damage to everything |
| 09:34.51 | jacekowski | and if you have 4mili farad caps x3 @400V |
| 09:34.59 | DocScrutinizer | yeeeha |
| 09:35.03 | jacekowski | unfused |
| 09:35.15 | jacekowski | if igbt goes wrong it can only explode |
| 09:35.37 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, switch it ON while vlatge applied and BOOM |
| 09:35.43 | DocScrutinizer | voltage* |
| 09:38.02 | DocScrutinizer | OTOH 1mF@300V was what I built for fun by connecting in parallel several motor starter C, charged it via diode and incandescent lamp from 220V~ then shorted it for the bang |
| 09:38.17 | DocScrutinizer | wasn't THAT powerful |
| 09:38.34 | DocScrutinizer | a 200A IGBT shouldn't exactly explode on that |
| 09:39.23 | philurich | DocScrutinizer: I wasn't doing anything beyond speculation either. |
| 09:43.24 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I guess the IGBT got a false trigger (or voltage surge causing it to break down and switch on) and then drew some 20..100kA from the copper rails, and that was sufficient to blow it up so fast not even the fuse was fast enough to help |
| 09:44.05 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, that converter was doing strange things for months now |
| 09:44.13 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and it started making some funny noises |
| 09:44.22 | jacekowski | and voltage on that phase was fluctuating |
| 09:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, that's been how it started |
| 09:44.41 | jacekowski | it could have been faulty igbt from the beggining |
| 09:45.06 | *** join/#maemo GNUtoo|laptop (~gnutoo@host226-134-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:45.17 | DocScrutinizer | funny noises expected when you switch on both trunks of a totem pole output stage |
| 09:47.24 | *** join/#maemo Guest66742 (~Aranel@88.232.251.54) |
| 09:47.25 | DocScrutinizer | he current spikes running thru those copper bars will cause magnetic fields that can even make the steel case vibrate and create funny noises |
| 09:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | kA as mentioned above |
| 09:48.12 | jacekowski | not that kind of noise |
| 09:48.18 | jacekowski | let me just upload the video |
| 09:48.27 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 09:48.41 | jacekowski | more like tortured igbt noise |
| 09:50.17 | *** join/#maemo Nesta_L (~Nesta_L@41.155.14.1) |
| 09:51.36 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: @all: how would I find out about the meaning of uint values in: |
| 09:51.43 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.163) |
| 09:51.43 | DocScrutinizer | signal sender=:1.20 -> dest=(null destination) serial=9969 path=/com/nokia/csd/call/1; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call.Instance; member=CallStatus |
| 09:51.45 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:51.46 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:51.48 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:52.06 | ruskie | I would guess it's the same as the libc definition of uint32 |
| 09:52.20 | ruskie | or wherevr it's defined |
| 09:52.47 | jacekowski | yeah, but what does 15 or 3 or 17 mean |
| 09:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: nonsense, I'm interested in the enum, not in the def of uint type |
| 09:52.52 | jacekowski | that is the question |
| 09:53.05 | jacekowski | will it blend |
| 09:53.17 | ruskie | ugh... sorry not had enough sleep in the last 3 days to process things |
| 09:53.58 | DocScrutinizer | I gather from lots of dbus sniffing that the third one == 17 means "busy" |
| 09:54.17 | ruskie | shouldn't this be in the api docs? |
| 09:54.26 | DocScrutinizer | which ones? |
| 09:56.02 | DocScrutinizer | first one == 15 might mean "cancelled" |
| 09:57.08 | DocScrutinizer | I really need the enum def for those three, for all the possible values from 0..17(+?) |
| 09:58.00 | DocScrutinizer | any pointer to API specs or sourcecode welcome |
| 09:59.34 | ruskie | trying to find anything relevant |
| 10:00.41 | ruskie | http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer#cui_errors_disconnect_reason_to_string <-- DocScrutinizer maybe this? |
| 10:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | according to best practice about "asking questions the smart way" I should add I'm only guessing about this dbus signal being the right one to gather info about state of call progress. If anybody can point me to a better way, I'm more than happy |
| 10:00.56 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: http://jacekowski.jacekowski.org/20110329_001.mpeg |
| 10:01.13 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that kind of sound |
| 10:01.55 | pupnik | http://i.imgur.com/0oI6Y.jpg DocScrutinizer god made a beautiful universe |
| 10:01.56 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: \o/ mille gracie |
| 10:02.53 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: not exactly matching but definitely right direction |
| 10:03.00 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and voltage is dropping by like 10V when it's making that sound |
| 10:03.05 | jacekowski | and then it stops |
| 10:03.09 | jacekowski | for a while |
| 10:03.12 | jacekowski | and starts again |
| 10:03.13 | jacekowski | randomly |
| 10:03.17 | ruskie | doesn't match? |
| 10:03.19 | jacekowski | well, used to before explosion |
| 10:03.31 | ruskie | or could it be just sending multple signals for each call(irrelevant if it's voip or normal?) |
| 10:04.00 | DocScrutinizer | meh, "there is no demux plugin for this stream" on my desktop |
| 10:04.04 | *** join/#maemo ZZzzZzzz_ (~ZZzzZzzz@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-5-97.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:04.19 | ruskie | btw what are you working on? |
| 10:04.21 | jacekowski | it's standard mpg |
| 10:04.35 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: detecting busy calls |
| 10:04.56 | robbiethe1st | Mind, it works for me via VLC. |
| 10:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yeah, my desktop isn't set up for video playback really |
| 10:05.42 | *** join/#maemo Zubatac_ (~zubatac@193.204.83.48) |
| 10:06.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | I always resort to this one :D |
| 10:06.17 | crashanddie | haha, 1.2 millions dislikes on a youtube video |
| 10:06.26 | robbiethe1st | jacekowski: Hm, how come only the left tester drops in voltage? Could the power-factor/wave-form be an issue here? |
| 10:06.40 | jacekowski | robbiethe1st: that's a phase that had a problem |
| 10:06.41 | ruskie | cui_errors_tp_reason_to_disconnect_reason <-- maybe this is what you might actually be looking for? errors_tp_reason? whatever that is... |
| 10:06.47 | jacekowski | robbiethe1st: and that's a phase where that igbt exploded |
| 10:06.52 | ruskie | probably telepathy errors |
| 10:06.53 | jacekowski | robbiethe1st: and it's on pure resistive load bank |
| 10:06.57 | jacekowski | was* |
| 10:06.58 | robbiethe1st | oh |
| 10:07.06 | robbiethe1st | So what's making the noise? |
| 10:07.18 | jacekowski | probably igbt that exploded |
| 10:07.18 | ruskie | to many TBAs on that page :( |
| 10:07.24 | robbiethe1st | oh |
| 10:07.35 | jacekowski | it was working for 20 minutes |
| 10:07.39 | jacekowski | and then decided to explode |
| 10:08.45 | crashanddie | hear hear, the beauty of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0 |
| 10:08.47 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.113.125.71) |
| 10:09.24 | ruskie | though it might only be translating this: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/telepathy-glib/telepathy-glib-errors.html stuff to those numbers... |
| 10:10.10 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: IGBT breakdowns, caught by some filter, so it is creating that tone |
| 10:10.25 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: maybe |
| 10:10.30 | neal | jacekowski: How did you manage to get the cell neighbor info using at commands? (I know you said you couldn't parse it, but it sounds like you got a lot further than I did.) |
| 10:10.32 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: lot of options, but it's exploded now |
| 10:10.38 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 10:10.51 | jacekowski | neal: nope, i found code responsible for it in rapuyama |
| 10:11.00 | neal | ah |
| 10:11.41 | neal | jacekowski: Do you mean you found code in the firmware? |
| 10:11.51 | jacekowski | yes |
| 10:11.54 | DocScrutinizer | yes, that's what he said |
| 10:12.19 | neal | DocScrutinizer: Sorry, I wasn't sure that rapuyama was the firmware. |
| 10:12.24 | DocScrutinizer | we only need to figure how to call that code :-D |
| 10:12.44 | neal | jacekowski: Did you manage to get any output? |
| 10:12.45 | DocScrutinizer | BB5 rapuyama is our modem chip |
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| 10:12.51 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 10:13.01 | neal | jacekowski: I think I remember you said you got some output but couldn't parse it |
| 10:13.14 | jacekowski | nah |
| 10:13.22 | neal | too bad |
| 10:13.54 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Have you found a list of commands - or is it more complex than that? |
| 10:14.09 | DocScrutinizer | there probably is that info available via ISI interface, but not supported by neither libisi nor pnatd or anything else |
| 10:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ISI is a rather binary interface |
| 10:14.36 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 10:14.36 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: i have no idea where at parser is |
| 10:14.42 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it may not be there at all |
| 10:14.44 | DocScrutinizer | there's none |
| 10:14.54 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: ah. |
| 10:14.55 | jacekowski | it could be pnatd doing that all |
| 10:15.00 | DocScrutinizer | AT parser is in onatd |
| 10:15.07 | DocScrutinizer | pnatd |
| 10:15.10 | neal | DocScrutinizer: When you say ISI interface, do you mean the interface you talk to via phonet? |
| 10:15.16 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 10:15.34 | lcuk | at 3:20 this morning (it is now 11:14) someone asked about music playback, I started a playlist and it has played ever since with screen off. phone battery is now about 40% |
| 10:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | I mean the wies running to modem, that transfer some r/w:addr(:value) |
| 10:15.58 | lcuk | is that reasonable for music playback, I dont normally have music on (battery was practically full) |
| 10:16.07 | neal | DocScrutinizer: oh, ok. |
| 10:16.10 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: It'll play >12h through phones |
| 10:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI the BB5 has a sort of I2C interface |
| 10:16.50 | DocScrutinizer | well, **sort of** |
| 10:16.52 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, ok so it is reasonably ok to keep going for a while longer? |
| 10:16.58 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: yes |
| 10:17.01 | lcuk | :) |
| 10:17.58 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it looks differently in nolo |
| 10:18.05 | *** join/#maemo Openfree^ (~Openfree`@116.228.88.131) |
| 10:18.16 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ? |
| 10:18.22 | jacekowski | it's called SSI |
| 10:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 10:19.18 | DocScrutinizer | and AIUI you write adr:value tuples to it, and read from other adr to get values back |
| 10:20.10 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe it's more like "IP" messages that have binary "opcode" and a payload |
| 10:20.23 | DocScrutinizer | anyway no AT interface of any kind |
| 10:20.54 | DocScrutinizer | and no public spec for opcode to query neighbour cells |
| 10:21.17 | jpinx | anyone know why I can connect by ssh on a wifi but not by browser? |
| 10:21.39 | DocScrutinizer | please elaborate |
| 10:21.55 | DocScrutinizer | connect from where to where? |
| 10:22.53 | jpinx | n900 with a termscreen open can ssh to a remote server by IP and I am on irssi in screen there |
| 10:23.16 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=58128 |
| 10:23.26 | neal | DocScrutinizer: Have you look at this patch: http://www.mail-archive.com/ofono@ofono.org/msg09180.html ? |
| 10:23.27 | jpinx | but my browser will not connectmaybe dns issuesj |
| 10:23.51 | nid0 | jpinx: http://209.85.143.104 |
| 10:23.54 | nid0 | works, or not? |
| 10:23.57 | DocScrutinizer | neal: probably yes |
| 10:24.01 | neal | DocScrutinizer: The opcode for getting the cell neighbor info from an isi modem is published there. |
| 10:24.21 | DocScrutinizer | it's using some function in libisi we are missing for N900 afaik |
| 10:24.30 | jpinx | where do I edit my dns? |
| 10:24.34 | Venemo | good morning Maemo :) |
| 10:24.34 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, so let me take a look |
| 10:24.37 | neal | DocScrutinizer: oh. |
| 10:24.43 | jpinx | nid0: yes |
| 10:24.51 | SpeedEvil | jpinx: dtatic IP? |
| 10:24.54 | SpeedEvil | jpinx: st |
| 10:25.04 | nid0 | jpinx: /etc/resolv.conf |
| 10:25.08 | jpinx | dunno |
| 10:25.21 | SpeedEvil | jpinx: settings internet or something, select the connection, 'next' a few times, and it's under 'advanced' at the end. |
| 10:25.23 | nid0 | add 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 |
| 10:25.31 | SpeedEvil | you can enter DNS IP |
| 10:25.37 | SpeedEvil | Do not do what nid0 suggests. |
| 10:25.42 | SpeedEvil | It'll get wiped net boot |
| 10:25.50 | nid0 | itll test the problem now though |
| 10:25.53 | SpeedEvil | True |
| 10:25.58 | jpinx | nid0: thanks |
| 10:26.01 | SpeedEvil | But doing it through the UI is trivial |
| 10:26.35 | neal | DocScrutinizer: The first part of that patch set (http://www.mail-archive.com/ofono@ofono.org/msg09176.html) includes the following: NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS_REQ = 0x1A, |
| 10:26.53 | neal | which is then used as an op code in the phonet message |
| 10:26.55 | DocScrutinizer | looks interesting |
| 10:27.01 | neal | I thought that that was sent directly to the modem |
| 10:27.09 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 10:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | I'm worried about #include <gisi/client.h> |
| 10:28.09 | jpinx | SpeedEvil: nothing in options in my browser |
| 10:28.16 | neal | DocScrutinizer: I think that is just used to wrap phonet |
| 10:28.21 | DocScrutinizer | but I'm not that brilliant in scanning source in 3 minutes and understand how it works |
| 10:28.23 | *** join/#maemo Nesta_L (~Nesta_L@41.155.50.64) |
| 10:28.26 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@alpskari.asiantuntijat.org) |
| 10:28.42 | DocScrutinizer | so maybe we got a proper pointer to something there |
| 10:28.54 | nid0 | jpinx: its in your internet connections settings |
| 10:29.35 | neal | does anyone have any simple examples of sending messages using the phonet api? |
| 10:29.43 | nid0 | settings > internet connections > select the connection you're using > edit > next > next > next > advanced > ip addresses > untick "auto-retrieve dns" enter 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 |
| 10:30.16 | *** join/#maemo Kaardemumma (52c50fdd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.197.15.221) |
| 10:30.18 | neal | I've tried to reverse engineer ofono, but the use of callbacks makes following the control flow difficult |
| 10:30.36 | Kaardemumma | I tryin reflash my n900 but i got this: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pPX7DhAH |
| 10:31.09 | crashanddie | "I tried to reflash my n900 but all I got was this stupid t-shirt" |
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| 10:33.35 | ZogG | crashanddie =) |
| 10:34.13 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: thanks for tmo link. Seems OP there missed the dbus signal I quoted above |
| 10:34.16 | ruskie | Kaardemumma, unplug it... start flasher... plug it... |
| 10:34.19 | jpinx | nid0: SpeedEvil did the DNS edit to those nameserers but still not connecting after restart the browser |
| 10:34.25 | ZogG | Kaardemumma google about flashing maemo and some modules that popup and ruin it |
| 10:35.12 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, well the second post atleast provides 3 retcodes |
| 10:35.18 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 10:35.34 | ruskie | I do wonder where this is documented... |
| 10:35.43 | DocScrutinizer | too |
| 10:35.48 | crashanddie | s/where/whether/ |
| 10:35.57 | ruskie | hehe |
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| 10:36.57 | SpeedEvil | jpinx: The browser has to know the internet connection is up. How did you take it up? |
| 10:37.36 | jpinx | open the browser before connecting |
| 10:37.55 | jpinx | let me disconnect and do that again.... |
| 10:38.23 | Kaardemumma | when i try flashing and plyg cabble my pc try install USB rom device or something and then its say "cabble is unplugged" |
| 10:39.24 | jpinx | SpeedEvil: the browser is causing the connection to be made |
| 10:39.40 | SpeedEvil | jpinx: Ah. |
| 10:39.56 | SpeedEvil | jpinx: But you're not getting DNS? |
| 10:40.05 | jpinx | nope |
| 10:40.14 | jpinx | seems that way |
| 10:40.26 | SpeedEvil | Have you tried entering the DNS in the GUI? |
| 10:40.37 | jpinx | I get ssh and http by IP number |
| 10:41.06 | ruskie | Kaardemumma, stop it doing that or prep flasher(i.e. waiting for device)... and hold u on the n900 while powering it up/plugging it in(iirc)... might work |
| 10:41.11 | jpinx | I did the edit by the gui as per instructions from nid0 above |
| 10:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell Kaardemumma about flash |
| 10:43.14 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: that's correct |
| 10:43.18 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: you're doing it wrong |
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| 10:43.24 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, hmm tried stringing the dialer to see if it's hidding anything? |
| 10:43.24 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: start flasher |
| 10:43.27 | DocScrutinizer | Kaardemumma: in short: remove battery, start flasher, hold 'u', insert battery while holding 'u' |
| 10:43.29 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: switch off phone |
| 10:43.32 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: hold u |
| 10:43.40 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: plug in the cable |
| 10:43.47 | Kaardemumma | when i hold u on the n900 while powering it up/plugging it windows start installing USB ROM DEVICE driver and then its abort installing the driver and flashing wait device |
| 10:43.48 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: insert battery |
| 10:43.51 | jpinx | SpeedEvil: in etc/resolv.conf the old dns still exists |
| 10:44.03 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: that's for cold flashing |
| 10:44.06 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: don't worry about that |
| 10:44.11 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: and use linux |
| 10:44.17 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: windows tends to mess things |
| 10:44.30 | *** join/#maemo GNUtoo|laptop (~gnutoo@host226-134-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:44.33 | Kaardemumma | work on virtual pc? |
| 10:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | Kaardemumma: do you get a NOKIA screen *with small usb icon*? |
| 10:44.45 | Kaardemumma | Yep |
| 10:45.01 | Kaardemumma | but icon go away when driver installing abort |
| 10:45.13 | jacekowski | Kaardemumma: use linux |
| 10:45.33 | Kaardemumma | Its working on virtual pc? |
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| 10:45.47 | DocScrutinizer | allegedly it does |
| 10:46.28 | DocScrutinizer | but honestly booting off a live linux DVD is the best you can do |
| 10:46.38 | ruskie | or live usb |
| 10:46.56 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: nope, not yet tried string dialer-ui |
| 10:47.57 | ruskie | I guess it could also be somewhere in csd(whatever that is)... but I'm guessing that's somewhat closed... |
| 10:48.11 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 10:48.55 | ruskie | dialer should have it if it listens to the raw codes(since it needs to present those to the user(or so I think))... could be that csd actually does the final stuff and sends a notification... |
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| 10:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | there's that yellow hildon notifier saying "number busy" that vanishes after some 3s, and I seem don't see any related dbus traffic causing that, so my suspicion is dialer is talking to *something* directly via some lib.so function calls/callbacks, and you don't get to know about this by dbus-monitor |
| 10:50.59 | DocScrutinizer | or that notifier is a child of csd, whatever this really is |
| 10:51.13 | neal | jacekowski: Is there a copy of the firmware on the N900? |
| 10:51.23 | jacekowski | neal: it's in fiasco image |
| 10:51.26 | jacekowski | just unpack it |
| 10:51.28 | jacekowski | with flasher |
| 10:51.34 | neal | jacekowski: ah. thanks. |
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| 10:54.30 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, com.nokia.csd.Call.Error.Network.UserBusy |
| 10:54.43 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, and there's a string "User Busy" sent as well somewhere |
| 10:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | sounds good, but what is that? |
| 10:54.59 | ruskie | busy from dbus-monitor |
| 10:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | :-o |
| 10:56.07 | ruskie | org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Channel.Interface.Group has string "User Busy" |
| 10:57.21 | ruskie | and debug-message string "mt-release: reason=BUSY (3) cause=com.nokia.csd.Call.Error.Network.UserBusy (3.17) |
| 10:58.02 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: I can't find all that |
| 10:58.22 | ruskie | dbus-monitor --monitor | grep -A10 -B10 -i "busy" |
| 10:58.25 | ruskie | that's how I got it |
| 10:58.28 | DocScrutinizer | is this from dbus-monitor? if yes, which bus? |
| 10:58.30 | ruskie | tried calling myself through the dialer |
| 10:58.39 | ruskie | ran dbus-monitor as user |
| 10:58.44 | DocScrutinizer | aah, k, will retry |
| 10:59.04 | DocScrutinizer | oooooh :blush: |
| 10:59.09 | DocScrutinizer | <- idiot |
| 10:59.25 | DocScrutinizer | of course monitoring the session dbus of root is BS |
| 10:59.48 | ruskie | I would assume using --system might help as well |
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| 10:59.56 | ruskie | since I would assume this would be on the system bus as well |
| 11:00.03 | DocScrutinizer | nope, on system bus there's no "busy" |
| 11:00.13 | ruskie | fun |
| 11:00.54 | DocScrutinizer | I basically did same as you did (dbus-mon|grep) but user root :-S |
| 11:00.58 | ruskie | hehe |
| 11:01.18 | DocScrutinizer | also dbus-momitor --system, which gave me no "busy" |
| 11:01.33 | ruskie | I tend to always start with the user bus |
| 11:01.37 | ruskie | then go from there when I don't find it |
| 11:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | I did as well (but forgot I logged in as root via ssh) |
| 11:02.30 | ruskie | bad practice ;) |
| 11:02.37 | ruskie | I always login as user and only su if I need to |
| 11:02.40 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, probably |
| 11:02.54 | ruskie | more or less get upset if I see ppl sshing as root |
| 11:03.03 | DocScrutinizer | ~spank DocScrutinizer |
| 11:03.03 | infobot | ACTION bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks. |
| 11:04.13 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: thanks :-) |
| 11:04.18 | ruskie | yw |
| 11:04.25 | ruskie | likes interesting challanges |
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| 11:05.37 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless those >>signal sender=:1.20 -> dest=(null destination) serial=9939 path=/com/nokia/csd/call/1; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call.Instance; member=CallStatus uint32 15 uint32 3 uint32 17<< are quite promising as well |
| 11:06.01 | DocScrutinizer | the 3rd one at 17 clearly seems to indicate "busy" |
| 11:06.25 | ruskie | there might be different types of busy in general... |
| 11:06.40 | ruskie | "mt-release: reason=BUSY (3) cause=com.nokia.csd.Call.Error.Network.UserBusy (3.17)" <-- i.e. |
| 11:06.51 | ruskie | reason BUSY (3) but then you get 3.17 |
| 11:07.04 | DocScrutinizer | while first one seems to be call progress like "trying" "ringing" "established" "cancelling" "cancelled" |
| 11:09.24 | DocScrutinizer | I did dbus-monitor --system | grep -A3 member=CallStatus |
| 11:11.48 | ruskie | glad you can atleast reverse engineer the thing if nothing else |
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| 11:11.55 | DocScrutinizer | I get 1-0-0 3-0-0 10-3-17 15-3-17 0-3-17 for a call of own number |
| 11:12.08 | ruskie | I got that by calling my own number |
| 11:12.16 | DocScrutinizer | while for a call to a nonvalid number it looks quite different |
| 11:13.09 | ruskie | I'd suggest you grab the whole comm from the user bus since that seems to include raw strings as well |
| 11:14.34 | DocScrutinizer | so let's postulate for 1st uint: 1=request, 3=trying, 10=failed?, 15=disconnecting, 0=idle |
| 11:15.52 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: I af course also logged the whole dbus-mon >xxx - that's where I got above values from right now |
| 11:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | nayway I'd prefer a proper spec to any postulating |
| 11:17.28 | ruskie | true |
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| 11:22.34 | SpeedEvil | Has anyone seen a n900 USB failure that's ripped off the tracks on the motherboard? |
| 11:22.36 | SpeedEvil | (not mine) |
| 11:24.06 | DocScrutinizer | um, no. I guess Nokia Service might have seen several. What exactly is your question? |
| 11:24.58 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil's work for http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer is incredible |
| 11:25.37 | SpeedEvil | I'm idly wondering about a phone I see on ebay. |
| 11:25.46 | SpeedEvil | With a failed USB |
| 11:26.07 | DocScrutinizer | aaah, wondering if it's fixable |
| 11:26.29 | DocScrutinizer | no? |
| 11:27.59 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 11:28.03 | SpeedEvil | (not for me) |
| 11:28.14 | SpeedEvil | (well - I mean not for me as the end user) |
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| 11:28.49 | SpeedEvil | 'After I received phone back I noticed that keyboard don't work properly(2 lines it very hard to push to get any letters ,but there is few letters with almost don't need to touch -it types itself)...when I told that to company who repaired my phone-they just said-we don't know nothing about it!' |
| 11:28.55 | SpeedEvil | Misaligned keyboard mat? |
| 11:28.58 | DocScrutinizer | you got F5300, J5300, J5301, and arbitrary GND for alternative solder points - omitting ID |
| 11:29.07 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 11:29.09 | SpeedEvil | Neat |
| 11:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | (misaligned) yup |
| 11:30.44 | DocScrutinizer | for J5300/1 you should use a bifilar choke Z5300 to 'wire' the connector to those testpoints |
| 11:30.57 | SpeedEvil | thanks. |
| 11:31.04 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 11:31.05 | ZogG | crashanddie, heeey |
| 11:31.26 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: have you actually ordered from ownta? |
| 11:31.32 | SpeedEvil | Shipping? |
| 11:31.35 | DocScrutinizer | yeaj |
| 11:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | got my bare PCB |
| 11:31.55 | DocScrutinizer | waiting for those "compatible" speakersa |
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| 11:34.19 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: What's shipping like? |
| 11:34.22 | DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn |
| 11:34.22 | infobot | rumour has it, xyawn is big coffee |
| 11:34.30 | DocScrutinizer | OOO...K |
| 11:34.42 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: takes ages |
| 11:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | packaging is kinda OK |
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| 11:35.08 | SpeedEvil | K. |
| 11:35.41 | DocScrutinizer | hotline is fast as hell, answers in 10 min |
| 11:36.34 | lolcat | My n900 is faster now after nokia flashed it! |
| 11:37.37 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: you can use telepathy to see cellular call end reasons, it will be in MembersChanged on the group interface |
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| 11:44.16 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: thanks. Alas that's a bit like Chinese to me. Is that a dbus-call to telepathy? |
| 11:44.59 | Robot101 | no that's a signal telepathy emits when the person you're calling leaves the call channel as they're busy |
| 11:45.06 | lolcat | I forgot my root password and HAM isnt working... |
| 11:45.19 | DocScrutinizer | dbus signal? |
| 11:45.22 | Robot101 | yes |
| 11:45.27 | DocScrutinizer | k, thanks |
| 11:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | I think I'll manage to find info about it based on that |
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| 11:46.54 | DocScrutinizer | I hope so at least |
| 11:47.03 | chem|st | lolcat: type 'root' in xterm to become root then 'passwd' to change password |
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| 11:48.10 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: you could ask in #telepathy - but the spec at telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec has alllllll the stuff, although the tp book might introduce the concepts better - rather than trying to learn the language by reading the dictionary :) |
| 11:48.32 | lolcat | -sh: root�: not found |
| 11:50.22 | lolcat | I got HAM working |
| 11:53.16 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@pD9F4FA87.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:54.17 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: think I got a hold on it: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Interface_Call_State.html#Flags:Channel_Call_State_Flags |
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| 11:56.42 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: so these are kind of orthogonal to call termination reasons - they just toggle on and off during a call without a specific state progression guaranteed by telepathy |
| 11:57.25 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: still searching for the termination codes |
| 11:57.36 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: the members of a call are in the Group interface |
| 11:57.52 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: (the call is represented as a StreamedMedia channel for historical reasons) |
| 11:57.52 | DocScrutinizer | can't find that |
| 11:58.02 | Robot101 | Channel.Interface.Group |
| 11:58.28 | Robot101 | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Interface_Group.html#Signal:MembersChangedDetailed |
| 11:58.40 | Robot101 | reasons and other metadata are in the dictionary here |
| 11:59.07 | Robot101 | change-reason will be one of http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Interface_Group.html#Enum:Channel_Group_Change_Reason |
| 11:59.25 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
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| 12:04.53 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: I gather this interface is agnostic of transport (SIP/GSM/...) |
| 12:05.10 | lolcat | transmission says read only filesystem -.- |
| 12:05.31 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's kind of the point of telepathy :) |
| 12:05.39 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
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| 12:07.33 | DocScrutinizer | so I "just" need to figure how to redial an *arbitrary* call, no matter if it's been a GSM or SIP or whatever one |
| 12:08.57 | DocScrutinizer | (my original plan was to implement automatic redial on busy only for GSM. This starts to become a tad more involved now) |
| 12:11.24 | DocScrutinizer | dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$NUMBER" uint32:0 |
| 12:11.34 | DocScrutinizer | obviously fails on that aim |
| 12:12.10 | Robot101 | in Telepathy you can start a call with CreateChannel on mission control's channel dispatcher interface |
| 12:13.15 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: <<mind to share another URL pointer ;-D>> |
| 12:14.37 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: given there's an index, you should be able to find these things... :P |
| 12:14.59 | Robot101 | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Dispatcher.html#Method:CreateChannel though |
| 12:15.16 | DocScrutinizer | /index.html ^F:mission ->"not found" |
| 12:16.02 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, should have tried "dispatcher" I guess |
| 12:18.47 | DocScrutinizer | scratches head and ponders to have a walk first |
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| 12:24.53 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/nokia_appeals_to_symbian_qt_devs/ <-- hmm |
| 12:27.22 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, :) battery still going now, but am going to sleep so will start recharging. |
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| 12:37.48 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: hehehe |
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| 12:39.01 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: probably determining actual power consumption via bq27200.sh script is advantageous over actually depleting battery to see how long it lasts |
| 12:39.26 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, for sure, but it has been an interesting datapoint for me. |
| 12:39.35 | lcuk | I rarely have music on and just had this on the entire evening |
| 12:39.48 | lcuk | it was actually quite relaxing :) |
| 12:39.55 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 12:40.56 | lcuk | MohammadAG, will the OSS media player potentially be about the same battery drain wise? |
| 12:41.01 | lcuk | with the screen off and stuff |
| 12:41.07 | lcuk | I don't see why there would be much difference |
| 12:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | wishes wading thru all the telepathy stuff at http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ - to find how to actually establish a call to arbitrary URI like SIP:foobar@acme.org would be similarly relaxing |
| 12:41.52 | ruskie | hmm I can get anywhere from 13-16h of music/charge using xmms2 |
| 12:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | seems there's ome "Telepathy in a nutshell" thing missing |
| 12:42.23 | Robot101 | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/book/ |
| 12:42.35 | DocScrutinizer | aah, many thanks |
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| 12:47.07 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-hfliiwvjhqpczlwt) |
| 12:48.10 | DocScrutinizer | yau, now we're talking :-) http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/book/sect.calls.requesting.html |
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| 12:52.11 | crashanddie | ZogG, yes? |
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| 13:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, not really - still gives me headaches starting with first parameter to org.freedesktop.Telepathy.ChannelDispatcher.CreateChannel, which according to all the telepathy docs http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Dispatcher.html#Method:CreateChannel is "Account-o" |
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| 13:03.51 | DocScrutinizer | no friggin idea how to determine what to provide there |
| 13:04.49 | DocScrutinizer | seems to me Telepathy.ChannelDispatcher.CreateChannel is NOT any kind of replacement for a dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$NUMBER" uint32:0 |
| 13:05.12 | Robot101 | it is, you just need to be aware of the account |
| 13:05.21 | Robot101 | there's a tp-ring account for the cellular connection |
| 13:05.23 | MohammadAG | I'd call someone and monitor dbus |
| 13:05.41 | MohammadAG | easier than reading docs |
| 13:05.43 | Robot101 | on maemo it's actually hardcoded, the ring account, I just don't know what it is |
| 13:05.45 | DocScrutinizer | both good points |
| 13:06.15 | DocScrutinizer | I guess I'd be able to get the account of the original call that I plan to redial |
| 13:06.40 | Robot101 | the account is your account |
| 13:06.48 | Robot101 | ie, the fact you want to place a cellular call |
| 13:06.53 | Robot101 | and not some SIP account |
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| 13:07.22 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but the idea been telepathy is agnostic of transport ;-) |
| 13:07.39 | DocScrutinizer | so I might want to redial SIP calls as well, when far end busy |
| 13:07.56 | Robot101 | it's the same way to place the call, but that doesn't mean you don't need to know what call you want to place |
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| 13:08.04 | Robot101 | it's not prescient :P |
| 13:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | I'm aware of that |
| 13:09.00 | DocScrutinizer | and as mentioned 2 lines above I guess dialer did that for me when user placed the initial call that failed with "busy" |
| 13:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | so I just re-use that account for that call to that far end |
| 13:09.57 | DocScrutinizer | assuming I don't want to change transport for redialing |
| 13:10.08 | DocScrutinizer | right? |
| 13:11.26 | SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/ - on specifying user interfaces carefully. |
| 13:11.39 | DocScrutinizer | and I'm hoping for caller-ui to pop up for that redial call as it should and does for CSD calls |
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| 13:18.16 | DocScrutinizer | the concept is: monitor dbus to gather call details (account, TargetID, foo, bar) and "busy" condition;; pop up a requester "auto-redial?" on call failed with 'busy';; if yes-> pop up another modal requester "redialing in nn:nn minutes:seconds [CANCEL]" ;; after timer expired, try redialing, on 'busy' increase timer value by factor *n.n, repeat; on "RINGING" (call progress) holler at user, then quit |
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| 13:20.53 | DocScrutinizer | NB this concept doesn't include any "GUI" (other than requesters) and depends on rtcom-call-ui handling the call |
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| 13:28.30 | DocScrutinizer | needs some management of special cases like e.g inbound calls during a pending redial |
| 13:28.59 | DocScrutinizer | (probably simply abort the pending redial) |
| 13:29.18 | DocScrutinizer | (close requester) |
| 13:30.14 | DocScrutinizer | outbound calls not possible due to modal requester blocking access to dialer-ui |
| 13:35.08 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 13:39.07 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if it's a bearable restriction you can't have more than one concurrent pending redial |
| 13:39.29 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 13:40.46 | DocScrutinizer | it's not a flaw,it's a feature ;-D User might get confused on call established and he doesn't know which of the 9 pending ones |
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| 13:42.42 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs15.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 13:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | also user is not supposed to get involved into any distracting activities (like IRC) while waiting for a redial to succeed :-) |
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| 13:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | comments welcome |
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| 13:51.04 | an0therb0x | help please my n900 is on "life support" in a way , it powers on gets to the "save configuration" page i tap on save it appears to complete the boot up then powers off and all i see is a dim NOKIA on the screen....is this a dead device ? |
| 13:54.03 | SpeedEvil | ~flashing |
| 13:54.03 | infobot | hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 13:54.05 | GAN900 | Is your battery too low? |
| 13:54.14 | GAN900 | Havem you tried reflashing? |
| 13:55.17 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 13:55.31 | MohammadAG | Wow, I'm not sure how others find SomePlayer usable |
| 13:55.41 | MohammadAG | the UI is just way too confusing :/ |
| 13:57.37 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: +1 |
| 13:57.39 | an0therb0x | GAN900: it exhibits the same behavior plugged into the wall charger |
| 13:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | an0therb0x: what's the >>"save configuration" page<<? |
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| 13:59.47 | E0x | somebody answer the question of how reset the battery memory that somebody was asking here ? |
| 14:00.00 | DocScrutinizer | eh? |
| 14:00.07 | SpeedEvil | There is no battery memory. |
| 14:00.26 | E0x | heh |
| 14:00.53 | DocScrutinizer | I feel like aphasic |
| 14:01.08 | an0therb0x | DocScrutinizer: its the factory startup screen, i am not sure why it even goes to that screen |
| 14:01.17 | DocScrutinizer | all tose words don't make any sense to me |
| 14:01.19 | E0x | hehe i have almost 12 hours in red status of the battery |
| 14:01.26 | E0x | and the phone don't power off |
| 14:01.35 | E0x | so , something is wrong there |
| 14:02.13 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: bme goes mad frequently. This doesn't mean a thing really |
| 14:02.15 | an0therb0x | the screen one sees the very first time the device is un-boxed and powered on |
| 14:02.30 | E0x | DocScrutinizer: :S |
| 14:02.38 | E0x | nothing i can do ? |
| 14:02.51 | DocScrutinizer | an0therb0x: that's when it lost poswer of backup battery (due to broken) when main battery been removed |
| 14:03.58 | DocScrutinizer | an0therb0x: on a new N900 this mustn't happen unless battery got removed >8 weeks. On a 6 months old N900 it seems to happen on battery removed >10 seconds |
| 14:04.27 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: try rebooting, with shortly removing main bat |
| 14:04.37 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 14:04.58 | DocScrutinizer | should fix bme madness usually - to a somewhat partially sane state |
| 14:05.26 | ShadowJK | Not any that Maemo uses anyway :) |
| 14:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: this effect is notorious to happen after bme got stopped for some time |
| 14:05.43 | SpeedEvil | an0therb0x: that happens if you swap SIM |
| 14:05.46 | E0x | DocScrutinizer: turn off , remove battery for a few seconds put it back and power on ? |
| 14:05.55 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: not afaik |
| 14:06.16 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: only due to the fact you have to remove battery to swap sim |
| 14:06.46 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: yep |
| 14:07.01 | *** join/#maemo mazdok (~menos@eduroam-wireless-pat3.wireless.bris.ac.uk) |
| 14:07.11 | DocScrutinizer | maybe even a plain reboot (w/o bat removal) should help |
| 14:08.36 | ShadowJK | E0x, original nokia battery? |
| 14:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | an0therb0x: anyway that "set locale, date, time" screen is usually unrelated to device shut down later on |
| 14:08.50 | E0x | ShadowJK: yes |
| 14:09.13 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@johnxx.xen.prgmr.com) |
| 14:09.58 | E0x | hmm still in red |
| 14:10.38 | *** join/#maemo Metallikettu (~metallike@91-157-36-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:10.45 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: please: lshal|grep voltage |
| 14:11.30 | DocScrutinizer | lshal|grep voltage.c even |
| 14:11.37 | E0x | current= 3602 |
| 14:11.57 | DocScrutinizer | that's a plain clean RED |
| 14:12.23 | DocScrutinizer | device will shutdown in like 5 min |
| 14:12.23 | E0x | what is the voltage for full charge battery ? |
| 14:12.25 | an0therb0x | DocScrutinizer: ....the device has been having charging issues lately, only usb charging works , nokia has referred me to 3rd party for service .... i was just trying IRC if there was another solution available |
| 14:12.29 | DocScrutinizer | 4200 |
| 14:12.32 | DocScrutinizer | +/- |
| 14:12.48 | E0x | let start media player and play something to get it discharge |
| 14:13.29 | DocScrutinizer | an0therb0x: does mass storage mode work? |
| 14:13.39 | MohammadAG | or get a wav file and use lame to convert it |
| 14:13.52 | E0x | playing Easy A movie |
| 14:13.53 | E0x | :P |
| 14:14.15 | MohammadAG | decoding takes less CPU load than encoding |
| 14:14.17 | E0x | n900 screen look very nice |
| 14:14.41 | an0therb0x | DocScrutinizer: yes mass storage works when the device powers on but now just dim NOKIA on the screen or power cycles |
| 14:15.42 | DocScrutinizer | an0therb0x: I suspect you got a broken Nokia charger (D+/- short broken). Bootloop might be related to depleted battery |
| 14:16.14 | DocScrutinizer | you should try charging from PC USB |
| 14:16.16 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:16.42 | DocScrutinizer | if switched off device enters flashing amber mode, let it sit and charge for some time |
| 14:17.07 | *** join/#maemo Macer (mace@rancorous.net) |
| 14:17.24 | DocScrutinizer | do NOT try to reflash, unless prior proper charging to 100% battery |
| 14:17.34 | ShadowJK | Does it flash amber when sitting at the date & time display? |
| 14:17.55 | *** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@a88-112-162-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:18.01 | DocScrutinizer | prolly not, the indicator is off when screen is on |
| 14:18.34 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AAB03.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:18.58 | crashanddie | I have the secretary who runs in my office, completely whitefaced, saying that she has a lawyer on the phone who is going to sue us. |
| 14:19.02 | DocScrutinizer | an0therb0x: connect switched off device to PC, watch, report |
| 14:19.27 | DocScrutinizer | do NOT try to üower it up |
| 14:19.31 | crashanddie | I ask her to transfer me, and I get this very angry dude who threatens to sue us more often that he can say "I". |
| 14:19.49 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.113.125.71) |
| 14:19.49 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 14:19.52 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 14:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh :-P |
| 14:20.10 | crashanddie | He explains that 6 months ago, we were paid X amount (specific up to the penny), but we never delivered any product, the name rings a bell, so I play ball |
| 14:20.33 | *** join/#maemo Metallikettu (~metallike@91-157-36-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:20.36 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 14:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | don't forget she might recall who you really are |
| 14:20.58 | DocScrutinizer | later |
| 14:21.14 | crashanddie | I start digging through my mail, and I find this email exchange I had with an idiot, he wanted me to send him our core server, I OK'd it with management, and asked him to provide an FTP/SCP address I could send the thingie to |
| 14:21.29 | crashanddie | The guy insisted I do it by email, I told him that the file was too large, and it would just be easier to FTP it |
| 14:22.26 | crashanddie | In the end, he said he opened an FTP server, I tried to connect, I couldn't. He forgot to open the firewall, so I give him my IP address, but still can't, because the username is wrong, and then the password, and then I couldn't write into the home directory |
| 14:22.27 | DocScrutinizer | send 100 mails with tarsplit chunks |
| 14:22.43 | crashanddie | yada yada yada, in the end I told him to get back to us when he'd have a working system I could drop his files to |
| 14:23.21 | ShadowJK | So did you send him his files now? |
| 14:23.56 | crashanddie | I explained the situation to the lawyer, he'll handle it now |
| 14:24.03 | crashanddie | If he wants, I'll even post a DVD or something |
| 14:25.37 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@dhcp-4364.meeting.ietf.org) |
| 14:26.11 | crashanddie | ~ping |
| 14:26.11 | infobot | ~pong |
| 14:27.37 | E0x | heh , it turn off |
| 14:30.43 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: tar -M -L 100k | mail |
| 14:31.11 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: toldya |
| 14:31.41 | SpeedEvil | uuencode |
| 14:31.45 | *** join/#maemo Tuco1 (~Tuco1@148.106.2.6) |
| 14:31.45 | *** join/#maemo Tuco1 (~Tuco1@unaffiliated/tuco) |
| 14:31.50 | DocScrutinizer | that too of course |
| 14:31.59 | DocScrutinizer | mail should handle that |
| 14:32.34 | *** join/#maemo Sazpaimon_ (wat@c-68-57-16-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:34.48 | DocScrutinizer | "dear Mr. XXX. As we found no other way to send this 100MB file to you, according to your request, we decided to split it to chunks and send you per email for your convenience. As already explained to you, we had to send each chunk as a separate mail, due to limitations regarding maximum size of emails. You simply can concatenate, uudecode, and untar the file once the last chunk arrived at your side. Sincerely crashanddie" |
| 14:35.43 | *** join/#maemo Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) |
| 14:37.11 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 14:37.27 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 14:37.41 | DocScrutinizer | postscriptum: this mail has 999 follow-ups |
| 14:38.29 | SpeedEvil | Print out and mail uuencoded. |
| 14:39.04 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 14:39.17 | DocScrutinizer | too expensive |
| 14:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: "we added this button cell to the package, for the "e" in email"? |
| 14:42.55 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: create an ftp account with opie auth for him |
| 14:43.25 | DocScrutinizer | send 2 passwords as you are a nice guy :-D |
| 14:44.24 | chem|st | why not send a video with the data as qr-code... so he can read it with his iphone... |
| 14:44.26 | DocScrutinizer | once he spent his two tries, you can charge him for sending more passwords ;-P |
| 14:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: nice XD |
| 14:45.00 | chem|st | read DVD and thought of why not making a movie... |
| 14:45.42 | chem|st | or sampling some open-media with aalib fed with the code as lib source... |
| 14:45.56 | crashanddie | hah, a dvd with a sequence of numbers "0,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,0,1" |
| 14:46.10 | chem|st | to easy to decode... |
| 14:46.18 | crashanddie | depends |
| 14:46.23 | crashanddie | maybe he has to play it backwards |
| 14:46.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah big-endian - LOL |
| 14:46.44 | crashanddie | and at some random interval, you play the anti-piracy clip. |
| 14:46.45 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-114.telpol.net.pl) |
| 14:47.13 | crashanddie | Stranger: hi asl? |
| 14:47.13 | crashanddie | You: 127, both, narnia |
| 14:47.13 | crashanddie | Your conversational partner has disconnected. |
| 14:47.30 | chem|st | wmv with morse code |
| 14:47.39 | DocScrutinizer | hehehehehe |
| 14:47.48 | chem|st | to have a proprietary file... |
| 14:48.08 | DocScrutinizer | also simple to decode, for somebody with a trace of a clue |
| 14:48.19 | *** join/#maemo NGNUton-BC (~gnuton@80-186-140-99.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 14:48.50 | chem|st | send a pdf (pdf is so a nasty container format... |
| 14:51.16 | chem|st | I like being BOFH... "you got 50MB of free space in your home now - thanks, how big is it now a 100? - still 50 meg! - urgh" |
| 14:53.50 | jacekowski | crashanddie: core server? |
| 14:54.13 | crashanddie | Our main product, the one needed to use any of the other ones :P |
| 14:55.04 | *** join/#maemo Sazpaimon__ (wat@c-68-57-16-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:55.42 | jacekowski | what are you doing? |
| 14:56.23 | chem|st | ^^sending 999 emails^^ |
| 14:56.57 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: that one with teh 50MB also is really nice |
| 14:57.37 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@ppp-93-104-100-242.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 14:58.15 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: I love those stories but I like the real world even more... |
| 14:59.27 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: honestly, you should send him the server chopped up into 1000 pieces, wrapped into 1000 emails |
| 15:00.08 | *** join/#maemo runejuhl (~runejuhl@1508897668.dhcp.dbnet.dk) |
| 15:00.14 | chem|st | "would you mind to remove the viruses (not the plural) from my system - nope - nice - (45min later) done - cool thanks - wtf where is my windows - ehrm you said I should remove the viruses so I removed it..." |
| 15:00.20 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 15:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | it's like a slightly longer one-liner shell cmd for you, but a hell for him |
| 15:01.02 | *** join/#maemo ketas-av (~ketas@kvlt.eu) |
| 15:01.09 | chem|st | s/not/note/ |
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| 15:01.34 | *** part/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@91-66-18-182-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 15:01.57 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@dhcp-11f9.meeting.ietf.org) |
| 15:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | which reminds me some friend asked me to remove the virus from her laptop :-/ |
| 15:02.28 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5411.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:03.00 | chem|st | my girl "wants" me to introduce her to linux/gnu, so does my sis-in-law |
| 15:03.16 | chem|st | that is something I like to... |
| 15:03.28 | DocScrutinizer | you mind will change on that |
| 15:03.33 | DocScrutinizer | wait and see... |
| 15:03.52 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:03.59 | chem|st | ... not |
| 15:04.16 | chem|st | lmgtfy.com!!! |
| 15:04.24 | Corsac | you don't want to introduce her? |
| 15:04.28 | DocScrutinizer | introducing users to unix never pays back |
| 15:05.08 | chem|st | nope you end up as maintenance-staff |
| 15:05.17 | *** join/#maemo frals (~frals@Maemo/community/contributor/frals) |
| 15:05.25 | DocScrutinizer | except for the ones that ask for an account to test that cute shell they never seen on wincrap |
| 15:05.44 | DocScrutinizer | ...and get excited on "man man" |
| 15:05.52 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 15:06.06 | lardman | afternoon chaps |
| 15:06.32 | chem|st | lardman: good morning |
| 15:06.56 | lardman | :) |
| 15:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | moo lardman |
| 15:08.33 | chem|st | leans back and watches company's accessDB die on floating boxes |
| 15:08.55 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:08.57 | chem|st | I <3 it |
| 15:09.12 | chem|st | selfmade bug... |
| 15:11.15 | chem|st | floating point equations overflow at a currency box |
| 15:11.17 | E0x | btw reboot hildon-desktop , modest , just help a bit about the laging when you have too much days of uptime :( |
| 15:11.20 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@dhcp-11f9.meeting.ietf.org) |
| 15:11.44 | chem|st | E0x: depends |
| 15:11.45 | lardman | I thought currency was fixed point? |
| 15:11.57 | E0x | chem|st: well in my case just help a bit |
| 15:12.01 | chem|st | lardman: that is what I thought too |
| 15:12.02 | DocScrutinizer | WTF is using floats for currency? |
| 15:12.39 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/cell_tracking/ |
| 15:12.42 | chem|st | getting errors of currency field overflow after addition of two currency fields... |
| 15:13.03 | lardman | you must be dealing with some rather large numbers there then :) |
| 15:13.44 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: I guess the guy who scripted it uses fp for the equation and puts it back in a currency field... but I am too tired to look at it now... |
| 15:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | using floats for currencies is a BAD thing as you get unpredictable errors on computations |
| 15:13.58 | chem|st | lardman: <20k... |
| 15:14.23 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: tell the freak who set it up in the first place! |
| 15:14.41 | DocScrutinizer | COBOL is even using display vars for that purpose |
| 15:15.47 | DocScrutinizer | well, not exactly, but there's othing stopping you from defining 01 cash value 9(14). |
| 15:16.03 | DocScrutinizer | ooops |
| 15:16.10 | DocScrutinizer | s/value/picture/ |
| 15:16.11 | chem|st | I guess it has some rounders in .$sum where $sum > 8bit |
| 15:17.24 | *** join/#maemo Metallikettu (~metallike@91-157-36-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:17.37 | DocScrutinizer | you'd probably want to use picture 9(12).99 though |
| 15:17.57 | DocScrutinizer | even -9(12).99 |
| 15:18.38 | chem|st | the weird thing is that this happens since 01.01.2011 |
| 15:18.54 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 15:18.55 | chem|st | does that thing use a date string for currency BS? |
| 15:19.16 | chem|st | µsoft should have stopped after WinME |
| 15:19.26 | DocScrutinizer | damn, you *must* have quite some experts there |
| 15:20.43 | *** join/#maemo phap (~phap@80-219-144-124.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:20.43 | chem|st | it might be that someone just hit "Yes" when the DB asked "Should I convert myself to Access2007 DB?" on a Access2000 DB... |
| 15:21.27 | chem|st | but the actual frontend stayed 2k... |
| 15:21.36 | phap | hi |
| 15:22.06 | chem|st | µsoft products are barely down-/upwards compatible |
| 15:22.10 | phap | does anyone know a command line to increase and decrease the volume on n900? |
| 15:22.22 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 15:22.24 | chem|st | yes |
| 15:22.28 | E0x | no |
| 15:22.32 | chem|st | ^^ |
| 15:23.01 | phap | lol I wish the 'yes' was for me |
| 15:23.13 | chem|st | it was |
| 15:23.46 | phap | oh cool then could you please write it for me? |
| 15:23.48 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Set_volume |
| 15:24.23 | phap | I already saw this one |
| 15:25.04 | phap | but in this command you have to specify the volume but waht I want to do is increase let's say by 5 from where you are already |
| 15:25.11 | phap | *what |
| 15:25.44 | MohammadAG | umm sec |
| 15:25.58 | lardman | well I wonder if there's an equivalent get command |
| 15:26.07 | lardman | then add 5 to that and set it back ;) |
| 15:26.20 | DocScrutinizer | prolly |
| 15:26.28 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~etrunko@187.106.5.146) |
| 15:26.29 | MohammadAG | there is |
| 15:26.31 | MohammadAG | sec |
| 15:27.51 | DocScrutinizer | I seem to recall there's even a increment/decrement call, but maybe I'm wrong |
| 15:28.12 | phap | I looked everywhere couldn't find anything |
| 15:29.07 | MohammadAG | dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume |
| 15:30.52 | MohammadAG | dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume| tail -1 | awk '{print $3}' |
| 15:30.57 | MohammadAG | i suck at awk though |
| 15:31.28 | DocScrutinizer | grrr [ERR]: No introspection data at object '/com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer' |
| 15:32.28 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 15:33.06 | MohammadAG | i suck at nesting long command |
| 15:33.11 | MohammadAG | shouldn't this work? |
| 15:33.12 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.15 | MohammadAG | 1 | awk '{print $3}'`+5)) |
| 15:33.28 | phap | i'm still writing lol |
| 15:33.52 | chem|st | what about just calling the fakekey? |
| 15:34.21 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (~snoopy@173-10-44-233-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:34.24 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (~snoopy@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait) |
| 15:36.11 | MohammadAG | yeah, works fine here |
| 15:36.13 | MohammadAG | phone-control --volume $((`./test`+5)) |
| 15:36.34 | MohammadAG | i should update that script... |
| 15:37.49 | *** join/#maemo jimmy1980 (~jimmy@112.224.3.13) |
| 15:38.28 | DocScrutinizer | eh? |
| 15:38.39 | *** join/#maemo The_Fellow (~spider1@glida.mooo.com) |
| 15:39.00 | DocScrutinizer | for some weird reason it doesn't even set my volume when called by the straight command |
| 15:39.51 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:40.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, stays at 79 |
| 15:41.09 | MohammadAG | weird, got a renderer? |
| 15:41.18 | DocScrutinizer | prolly not |
| 15:41.32 | MohammadAG | start the mediaplayer, play something, exit mediaplayer |
| 15:41.35 | DocScrutinizer | though the dbus object exists |
| 15:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, now it works |
| 15:43.31 | DocScrutinizer | err nope |
| 15:43.40 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@g226029198.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:43.49 | phap | I get 'Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer was not provided by any .service files |
| 15:45.31 | DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAAAAA it stops mediaplayer |
| 15:47.13 | MohammadAG | err, what? |
| 15:47.17 | DocScrutinizer | get_extension_property correctly reports current volume setting |
| 15:47.26 | *** join/#maemo Kaadlajk (kylanpaj@mustatilhi.cs.tut.fi) |
| 15:47.31 | *** join/#maemo Openfree^ (~Openfree`@61.170.198.112) |
| 15:47.42 | MohammadAG | setting extension to no value at all causes the current renderer to segfault |
| 15:47.47 | DocScrutinizer | set_extension_property stops mediaplayer playback in midst the song |
| 15:48.04 | MohammadAG | thus the mediaplayer stops, make sure you're setting a correct 32-bit unsigned int value |
| 15:48.32 | DocScrutinizer | dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume uint32:76 |
| 15:48.44 | DocScrutinizer | forget the --print-reply |
| 15:49.39 | *** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@a88-112-162-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:50.47 | MohammadAG | incorrect value |
| 15:50.55 | MohammadAG | dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume variant:uint32:76 |
| 15:50.59 | MohammadAG | that should work |
| 15:51.46 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 15:52.17 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:52.26 | DocScrutinizer | this works |
| 15:52.29 | *** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 15:52.34 | MohammadAG | DBus is confusing tbh |
| 15:52.42 | DocScrutinizer | quite |
| 15:54.29 | DocScrutinizer | wonders how he could miss the variant:, as it's there on http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Set_volume |
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| 15:55.30 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:55.55 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, learnt sth new this way - wondered about the variant bit in get-ext-properties output, but didn't really realize what to do about it |
| 15:56.14 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 15:58.21 | *** join/#maemo Bigi (4fd4057d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.212.5.125) |
| 15:58.22 | phap | When I set the command on the wiki it works perfectly but when I type your command I get this error I'm confused |
| 15:58.26 | Bigi | huhu |
| 15:58.42 | *** join/#maemo edisson (~edisson@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:58.50 | Bigi | have a problem i can not playing mp3 in the mediaplayer on nokia n900 |
| 15:59.44 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu) |
| 16:00.10 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 16:00.13 | Bigi | I think I've shot the entire file system |
| 16:00.38 | Bigi | Since then I have indeed the problem and it depends |
| 16:01.07 | DocScrutinizer | phap: so here it is: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume variant:uint32:$((`dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string: |
| 16:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | volume| tail -1 | awk '{print $3}'`-5)) |
| 16:01.18 | DocScrutinizer | (as user) |
| 16:01.23 | *** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 16:01.28 | Bigi | can I somehow everything back to factory settings |
| 16:01.55 | DocScrutinizer | ~flash |
| 16:01.55 | infobot | well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 16:02.50 | Bigi | I have flashed is still so |
| 16:03.37 | *** join/#maemo _NIN (~NIN101@p5DD29262.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:04.02 | MohammadAG | dbus-monitor --session | grep -A 10 error |
| 16:04.14 | MohammadAG | in terminal, then try to play a file |
| 16:04.22 | Bigi | mom |
| 16:04.26 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 16:04.41 | DocScrutinizer | hardly fs corruption |
| 16:05.00 | Bigi | when I open the media player is not displayed as title |
| 16:05.12 | MohammadAG | mafw outputs useful error info |
| 16:05.18 | MohammadAG | mediaplayer discards it |
| 16:05.52 | *** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 16:06.16 | DocScrutinizer | honestly I can't think how a complete flashing of rootfs and emmc wouldn't fix it though |
| 16:06.29 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@Maemo/community/webmaster/X-Fade) |
| 16:06.31 | MohammadAG | me neither |
| 16:07.24 | Bigi | mom takes a little |
| 16:07.35 | DocScrutinizer | afk |
| 16:08.11 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-mbcutidwwagfowvn) |
| 16:13.41 | phap | I still get this error: 'Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer was not provided by any .service files' ... |
| 16:15.37 | DocScrutinizer | id |
| 16:15.48 | DocScrutinizer | what's your user? |
| 16:16.13 | phap | normal user |
| 16:16.24 | phap | just open the terminal |
| 16:16.36 | DocScrutinizer | start some renderer, like MohammadAG sugested (mediaplayer) |
| 16:17.11 | DocScrutinizer | I evidently got a renderer that's used for ts-clicks |
| 16:17.28 | Bigi | wie kann ich das zeichen machen "|" |
| 16:17.31 | Bigi | fc |
| 16:17.41 | DocScrutinizer | blue-sym |
| 16:17.54 | phap | now it doesn't want to play any song |
| 16:18.04 | Bigi | thx |
| 16:18.12 | DocScrutinizer | you killed the mafw |
| 16:18.14 | DocScrutinizer | reboot |
| 16:18.19 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.172) |
| 16:18.56 | phap | ok I reboot |
| 16:18.57 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 16:19.11 | phap | then I open mediaplayer start a song and type the command? |
| 16:20.44 | Bigi | ok I upload issue |
| 16:20.48 | DocScrutinizer | after reboot you probably don't need to start mediaplayer |
| 16:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | but you should, to test it works again |
| 16:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | then c&p command as I did to post it here |
| 16:21.46 | DocScrutinizer | it worked for me so should work for you |
| 16:21.54 | DocScrutinizer | bye |
| 16:22.16 | phap | Alleluhia!! It works |
| 16:22.28 | phap | Thanks a lot MohammadAG and DocScrutinizer ! |
| 16:22.35 | phap | Now I can go shopping |
| 16:22.47 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@221.28.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 16:23.03 | Bigi | error "com.nokia.mediaplayer" dosen7t exist (the only error) |
| 16:25.38 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-bsnesdzjnjvpoblq) |
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| 16:29.43 | Bigi | how can I copy everything in the terminal? |
| 16:29.55 | *** join/#maemo prgrn (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/peregrin) |
| 16:30.58 | SpeedEvil | you mean to log it? |
| 16:31.16 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
| 16:31.20 | SpeedEvil | 'script' is not there. |
| 16:32.33 | Bigi | I have problem solved I may try to nokia n900 not unmount in opensuse |
| 16:32.49 | wazd | http://i017.radikal.ru/1103/71/e500af99aec9.jpg - getting ready for april 1st :) |
| 16:33.02 | massoud | Hi there, what is the simplest way to enable ipv6 on a n900 wout rebuilding a custome kernel ? |
| 16:33.23 | *** join/#maemo prgrn (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/peregrin) |
| 16:34.29 | slonopotamus | wazd: what a terrible place for ctrl |
| 16:36.18 | slonopotamus | pressing ctrl+alt+delete will definitely be challenging :) |
| 16:36.18 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
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| 16:39.21 | SpeedEvil | wazd: Needs fingerprints, a scratch, render it against a real surface, not a bad wood texture. And a windows key. |
| 16:39.48 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~Andrew@188.123.230.115) |
| 16:40.01 | SpeedEvil | wazd: Needs fingerprints, a scratch, render it against a real surface, not a bad wood texture. And a windows key. |
| 16:40.19 | wazd | slonopotamus: haven't thought of that :) |
| 16:40.50 | SpeedEvil | Also - if you do it in 'dim' light, with the keyboard backlight on, it may distract from the flat keys. |
| 16:42.06 | ShadowJK | wazd, is this a 3d render? |
| 16:42.17 | wazd | SpeedEvil: I'm not ready for spy photos yet :P |
| 16:42.30 | wazd | ShadowJK: nope, unfortunatelly |
| 16:43.50 | *** join/#maemo [XeN] (~XeN]@brln-4d0c81ce.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:44.02 | wazd | SpeedEvil: I'm still working on keys, yes, they're kinda too flat |
| 16:45.38 | [XeN] | hi, I have a problem regarding qt creater and scratchbox. I described it in a thread but nobody seems to read it. maybe someone from here can help? --> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=973214 |
| 16:45.40 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-078-042-037-046.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:45.44 | ShadowJK | Make it a big Windows 7 slashscreen, like, Microsoft totally dominating the screen, and a tiny "by Nokia" in the corner in blue :) |
| 16:46.58 | [XeN] | does anyone use qt creater and scratchbox together? |
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| 16:49.41 | Sc0rpius | ~ping |
| 16:49.41 | infobot | ~pong |
| 16:56.00 | wazd | ShadowJK: http://s59.radikal.ru/i165/1103/91/012b97b2ee5d.jpg :) |
| 16:57.08 | vldcnst | *droll* |
| 16:58.38 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@2.95.9.189) |
| 16:59.53 | wazd | It's really fun to make "real-like" concepts than some crazy fantasms with 4GHz 8-core CPUs and stuff |
| 17:04.31 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@ppp-93-104-100-242.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
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| 17:18.43 | ShadowJK | lol, PIIX4 :) |
| 17:21.14 | ZogG | sup sup |
| 17:21.20 | ZogG | who highlighted me? |
| 17:22.12 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 17:22.20 | DocScrutinizer | wazd: cool, running VMware, with floppy and cdrom support |
| 17:22.39 | DocScrutinizer | also 2 ttyS rs232 interfaces |
| 17:24.00 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yeah, exactly ;-D |
| 17:25.15 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: absoultely, can't imagine modern smartphone without floppy :) |
| 17:26.13 | DocScrutinizer | I honestly hope this thing will come with user imprintable keymat, and 3-key rollover for 2 of the 3 in either leftmost or rightmost col |
| 17:28.07 | DocScrutinizer | hell, make that a proper N-key rollover, spending one diode per key |
| 17:28.07 | ZogG | wazd, but the old one |
| 17:28.16 | korhojoa | NKRO :3 |
| 17:28.49 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@221.28.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 17:28.52 | DocScrutinizer | wut? |
| 17:29.04 | ZogG | wazd DocScrutinizer and we don't need screen. just old printer printing screen in morse code |
| 17:29.49 | ShadowJK | Each key could be an oled display |
| 17:29.58 | DocScrutinizer | could, yeah |
| 17:30.16 | wazd | ShadowJK: West Coast Customs style :D |
| 17:30.35 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5411.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:30.42 | wazd | ShadowJK: And in each seat we've built in a 56" plasma! |
| 17:30.49 | DocScrutinizer | I know about full kbd and NK pad working like that. Only 400 bucks or sth like that for the 16key NK |
| 17:31.20 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: actually one of Samsungs or Toshibas has e-ink keys |
| 17:31.33 | DocScrutinizer | cool shit |
| 17:31.51 | DocScrutinizer | e-ink prolly way cheaper than oled/LCD |
| 17:32.10 | DocScrutinizer | HEY!! |
| 17:32.18 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 17:32.38 | ZogG | and ps3 games with kinect |
| 17:32.57 | DocScrutinizer | isn't e-ink like persistent and you *could* write on it like on a metallized paper? |
| 17:33.14 | ZogG | i don't know i think not |
| 17:33.15 | DocScrutinizer | we actually could do the writing while slider opening |
| 17:34.05 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, it's so yesterday, we should have mindcontroller |
| 17:34.18 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: the real deal is oled large oled screen beneath keys |
| 17:34.25 | DocScrutinizer | just install a "brush/comb" inside the screen upper half case |
| 17:35.03 | ZogG | wazd, sup artman =) |
| 17:35.07 | DocScrutinizer | wazd: that'S difficult as you hardly find 100% transparent springs that also are conductive |
| 17:35.13 | wazd | ZogG: o/ :) |
| 17:36.16 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, eink is persistent... but not usable as a replacement for speedy refresh rates of oled/lcd |
| 17:36.32 | ruskie | and a 6" eink screen should be ~100 eur for a mere mortal... |
| 17:36.33 | ZogG | wazd how ya doing? |
| 17:36.34 | *** join/#maemo Puchaty (~Puchaty@77-254-57-247.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 17:36.45 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: who needs speedy refresh rates on their key printing |
| 17:37.44 | wazd | e-ink's problem is backlight |
| 17:37.48 | ruskie | not really |
| 17:37.50 | ruskie | that's the best bit |
| 17:37.51 | ruskie | :) |
| 17:37.52 | wazd | or more like forelight |
| 17:37.53 | ruskie | not needed ;) |
| 17:37.55 | DocScrutinizer | don't see |
| 17:38.13 | DocScrutinizer | e-ink should be semi-transparent |
| 17:38.14 | ZogG | ruskie, but as i know e-ink screens were not even touchscreens at the beggining and than there was a problem with touch ones, cause it was not so bright than it was not so good as e-book. |
| 17:38.26 | ruskie | ZogG, even lcd/oleds aren't touchscreens ok... |
| 17:38.31 | wazd | ZogG: pretty fun :) |
| 17:38.47 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, impossible really since it's actually physical objects inside(i.e. spheres) |
| 17:38.50 | DocScrutinizer | ZogG: we're not talking about screens here |
| 17:38.59 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, ? |
| 17:39.02 | ZogG | ruskie, ok |
| 17:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: rrright |
| 17:39.28 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: let's get like 10 years back :) |
| 17:39.32 | ZogG | ruskie, there is nothing impossible |
| 17:39.38 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: with transparent e-inks :) |
| 17:39.45 | ruskie | has been in love with eink since he first heard of it like what pre-kindle days... |
| 17:39.48 | ZogG | there is just no technology |
| 17:40.04 | ZogG | ruskie, i have sony's prs 650 |
| 17:40.05 | ruskie | also eink in colour is rather rare |
| 17:40.11 | ruskie | jinke v3 |
| 17:40.14 | ZogG | i didn't like the idea of eink at first |
| 17:40.16 | ruskie | running openinkpot |
| 17:40.24 | ZogG | as i said books should be made of papepr |
| 17:40.33 | ruskie | as for touchscreen... I seriously don't need touchscreen to read a book |
| 17:40.41 | ZogG | i'm too |
| 17:41.02 | ZogG | i just read a lot of good reviews and i bought it not cause of touchscreen |
| 17:41.05 | ruskie | http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/e-ink-newspaper-is-semi-transparent <_- DocScrutinizer ahh guess they did manage something... |
| 17:41.21 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 17:41.28 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, what ya doing? are you building a bomb again? |
| 17:41.37 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, but it says it's a concept |
| 17:42.17 | ruskie | really depends on the layer |
| 17:42.17 | ruskie | the deeper the layer the more pronounced the contrast |
| 17:42.17 | wazd | ruskie: I have tons of that concepts in my "trash" folder :D |
| 17:42.33 | ruskie | hehe |
| 17:42.36 | ruskie | why? |
| 17:42.43 | ZogG | i have a concept for better world |
| 17:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | fsckng website assraping my PC, dozens of cookies to reject, and never stops loading shit |
| 17:43.07 | ruskie | I'd love to have a physical keyboard with eink screens(sorta like the oled stuff that costs way to much)... |
| 17:43.48 | ruskie | and a pull out eink screen on a normal monitor as well |
| 17:44.01 | ruskie | so that I could actually read websites without straining my eyes... |
| 17:44.30 | wazd | I'd definitely stop with OLED :) |
| 17:44.39 | ruskie | ? |
| 17:44.49 | wazd | for keys backing |
| 17:44.56 | ruskie | to each their own |
| 17:45.06 | ruskie | I always am in a well lighted area |
| 17:45.25 | ruskie | also muscle memory helps not actually needing to see the keys anyway |
| 17:45.48 | DocScrutinizer | OLED in keys is a fsckg bad idea, as you can't reasonably contact them for the moving keycaps |
| 17:46.03 | ruskie | erm? |
| 17:46.13 | ruskie | http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ <_- you did see this right? |
| 17:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | yes, the costs-more-than-gold one I mentioned before |
| 17:46.55 | ds3 | ruskie: how big of a e-ink leyboard? |
| 17:46.59 | DocScrutinizer | guess *why* it's so expensive |
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| 17:47.36 | wazd | ruskie: it has an oled screen in each key - that's completely wrong approach |
| 17:47.40 | ruskie | ds3, think a model M but with eink screens... |
| 17:48.09 | wazd | ruskie: what I want is a single lowres oled screen behind the keys |
| 17:48.24 | ruskie | so what? transparent keys? |
| 17:48.42 | wazd | ruskie: yep, shaded transparent keys :) |
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| 17:48.44 | ruskie | and some optical stuff to relay the image up to the top of the screen? |
| 17:49.59 | wazd | ruskie: well, the size of the gap will be really tiny and you can easily align the phone to see all the symbols clearly |
| 17:50.10 | ruskie | ahh for the phone |
| 17:50.12 | ds3 | ruskie: but what's is the size in inches or cms or whatever units |
| 17:50.15 | wazd | so I guess no need in extra lens magic here |
| 17:50.40 | ruskie | ds3, normal keyboard button? like what are the... 1x1cm or something |
| 17:51.04 | ds3 | ruskie: I mean the overall keyboard... sounds like you are looking for a standard PC size keyboard with eink? |
| 17:51.09 | ruskie | yup |
| 17:51.17 | ds3 | ah blah |
| 17:51.20 | ruskie | hehe |
| 17:51.23 | DocScrutinizer | wazd: you can not get a single oled screen behind the keys, for low profile kbd design |
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| 17:51.26 | ruskie | what did you think I expected? |
| 17:51.39 | ds3 | then I won't suggest using a TS enabled e-reader repurposed into a keyboard :D |
| 17:51.51 | ruskie | ds3, I actually want physical keys |
| 17:52.10 | ds3 | ruskie: that can be done with minor mods |
| 17:52.12 | ruskie | TS is a nice toy... but ultimately pointless for trying to get things done |
| 17:52.15 | ds3 | problem is the size |
| 17:52.50 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: why so? :) |
| 17:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | you need some *contacts* which you can't place between the OLED and the keycaps |
| 17:54.01 | ds3 | it can be done... someone has done something like that with a regular LCD |
| 17:54.21 | DocScrutinizer | so your keycaps need bolts to protrude tru holes in the oled layer, to operate contacts springs below |
| 17:54.31 | ds3 | no you don't |
| 17:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 17:54.52 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: oled touchscreen? :) |
| 17:54.58 | ds3 | a molded sheet of silicone can do the spring action |
| 17:55.06 | DocScrutinizer | sure you can use a fuckin touchscreen |
| 17:55.07 | ds3 | quite a few modern PC keyboards do that |
| 17:55.15 | DocScrutinizer | but !!MEH!! |
| 17:55.32 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: touchscreen beneath keys I mean :) |
| 17:56.15 | DocScrutinizer | make ZERO difference. The key movement is 0, and the keyclick also is 0 |
| 17:56.34 | DocScrutinizer | touchscreen is BS for keyboard usage |
| 17:56.46 | ds3 | silicone overlay on top of touch screen gives you the movement |
| 17:56.49 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer++ |
| 17:56.56 | ds3 | keyclick can be software simulated |
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| 17:57.11 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: UHUH, shall be quite a transparent silicone then |
| 17:57.21 | slonopotamus | err... |
| 17:57.27 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: BS, not the tactile keyclick |
| 17:57.30 | slonopotamus | https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/trunk/target/linux/omap24xx/patches-2.6.38/900-n810-battery-management.patch?rev=26378 it charges?! |
| 17:57.49 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: a company showed basically that but with a LCD on the bottom at CES this year |
| 17:57.59 | ds3 | I don't have the URL anymore |
| 17:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: they showed WHAT? a disk-spring tactile feedback on keypress simulated in software? |
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| 17:59.26 | DocScrutinizer | I'd like to see THAT |
| 18:00.37 | ds3 | trying to google the URL |
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| 18:01.15 | banan_ | hi does anyone know how to make application manager to install missing dependencies instead of whining about them not being installed? |
| 18:01.21 | DocScrutinizer | I need no URL. You should recall how they managed to force-feedback to the keys from software |
| 18:02.25 | ds3 | no, this was suppose to be real physical movement |
| 18:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | especially without opaque objects under the keycaps creating that force |
| 18:04.09 | DocScrutinizer | there is no software simulating the feeling when you press down a disk spring. Not anyone that's simpler or smaller or more transparent than a real disk spring |
| 18:04.41 | wazd | wait a sec |
| 18:05.08 | ds3 | I find those roll up silicone keyboards to be not too far off |
| 18:05.13 | wazd | there's a lot of room for wiring and stuff under the keys |
| 18:05.31 | DocScrutinizer | so get it - we won't see any keyboard based on a touchscreen like tech, low profile, and transparent, and still with proper tactile feedback |
| 18:05.36 | wazd | http://s55.radikal.ru/i147/1103/08/cc3d8e665965.jpg |
| 18:06.38 | wazd | all the red zomes can be used for wiring and springs |
| 18:06.45 | wazd | zones* |
| 18:07.27 | DocScrutinizer | oh yeah, amazingly much real estate :-P |
| 18:08.00 | banan_ | does anyone know how to make application manager to install missing dependencies instead of whining about them not being installed? |
| 18:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | just enough to drill holes through your oled layer, and have proper springs beneath |
| 18:08.20 | nid0 | application manager does install dependencies |
| 18:08.28 | nid0 | assuming theyre available in the repos you have enabled |
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| 18:08.29 | DocScrutinizer | banan_: provide a repo that has them |
| 18:08.49 | wazd | DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure if OLED will work with holes in it :) |
| 18:08.59 | DocScrutinizer | I'm sure it will |
| 18:09.13 | ds3 | http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/razer-switchblade-7-inch-pocket-gaming-concept-blows-our-minds/ |
| 18:09.15 | ds3 | that one |
| 18:09.54 | banan_ | DocScrutinizer: extras repo has them, i can manually install them and then the app will install, all i want is to make it happen automatically |
| 18:10.22 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: I'm not exactly interested in even looking at it, as you can't tell me how it works (supposed to work), so I gather it's not to be found there |
| 18:10.38 | ds3 | 'k |
| 18:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | banan_: this should happen automatically |
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| 18:11.47 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: see, there IS NO way to simulate the tactile feedback in software, not in a small device |
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| 18:12.23 | DocScrutinizer | the smallest simulation of a disk spring is a disk spring |
| 18:12.31 | ruskie | that 7inch thingy looks like it has the same key style as the optimus keyboard |
| 18:12.48 | ds3 | eh? |
| 18:13.09 | nid0 | ruskie: it does sortof, except the idea is that the entire lower portion is a screen with keys overlaid on top of it, rather than individual keys with a tiny oled embedded on top |
| 18:13.10 | ds3 | all I said was physical tactile feed back using silicone like modern keyboards... only audio is via software |
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| 18:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | transparent silicone can't do a fake disk spring for you, it's always dead flesh feeling to press such a key |
| 18:15.03 | ds3 | have you taken apart PC keyboards? |
| 18:15.09 | DocScrutinizer | pff |
| 18:15.18 | ds3 | most of them have switched to silicone |
| 18:15.30 | ruskie | really? |
| 18:15.37 | ds3 | with a mold in black peice (carbon?) that connects contacts |
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| 18:15.48 | ds3 | like on the nokia phones |
| 18:15.51 | DocScrutinizer | most of them are crap as well. None of them is small like a smartphone kbd, and for sure none is transparent |
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| 18:17.00 | ds3 | I find them quite useable but not going to contest "crap" ;) |
| 18:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | you CAN NOT have a layer of transparent silicone between a touchscreen and a keycap-mat that acts like the keys had proper springs beneath them |
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| 18:18.30 | DocScrutinizer | if only it were for the support of that silicone also is the touchpad |
| 18:19.04 | DocScrutinizer | but also because you don't want the optics of that thing distorting your LCD/OLED display |
| 18:19.29 | DocScrutinizer | even if it's 100% transparent, it still acts as a lens-alike thing |
| 18:20.05 | ds3 | lens like effects are better then nothing |
| 18:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | and an the size of e.g. N900 kbd silicone is simply too weak and soft to give and proper spring |
| 18:20.21 | ZogG | damn british people |
| 18:20.37 | Sazpaimon__ | so attempting to hldonize this program has made me realize how little i know about gtk |
| 18:20.42 | ZogG | there those movies i can't watch them with no subs as of thier accent |
| 18:20.58 | Sazpaimon__ | anyone else want to have a stab? |
| 18:21.38 | nid0 | ZogG: do you mean british people, or fail americans trying to impersonate british accents? |
| 18:21.58 | ds3 | that sounds like a fun challenge... a N900 sized silicone keyboard |
| 18:22.00 | ZogG | british |
| 18:22.09 | ZogG | i think he is british |
| 18:22.25 | nid0 | who/what film |
| 18:23.00 | GAN900 | nid0, Brits trying to pull off American accents are generally more irritating. :P |
| 18:23.13 | GAN900 | Australians are the worst, though (see Avatar). |
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| 18:24.04 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: go ahead, design a silicone kbd that's transparent so you can read the LCD thru it, works by placing it on top of a touchpad, and doesn't feel like you're poking into warm shit. You'll earn a fortune with that |
| 18:24.33 | ZogG | nid0 london boulevard |
| 18:24.42 | ZogG | can't find him on imdb |
| 18:24.45 | ZogG | the actor |
| 18:24.54 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: you want to be able to read through it??? |
| 18:24.59 | nid0 | colin farrell? |
| 18:25.03 | ZogG | no |
| 18:25.08 | ZogG | not the main one |
| 18:25.32 | ZogG | nid0, i don't know where he is from but he speaks english and british english understandable |
| 18:25.40 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: that'S been the whole purpose of the topic (starting with e-ink in kbd so you can change the writing on keycaps) |
| 18:25.57 | Sazpaimon__ | if anyone is interested in helping get this app decent looking on hildon let me know, I'll package up what I have |
| 18:26.12 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: that's different from reading through it. |
| 18:26.28 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: oh? how that? |
| 18:26.30 | Sazpaimon__ | (the program btw is remmina) |
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| 18:27.04 | Sazpaimon__ | it's s modular remote desktop client with plugins for RDP, VNC, NX, ssh and a few others |
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| 18:27.12 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: reading through it implies being able to read at whatever resolution of the LCD is whereas keycap changing means being able to read something at a much low resolution centered on the "keycap" |
| 18:27.14 | DocScrutinizer | bbl |
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| 18:38.24 | wazd | http://www.techchee.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Samsung-Zeal-Verizon.jpg <- i'm not sure why we can't just swap e-ink with oled |
| 18:38.52 | ruskie | wazd, because eink taske 0 power to display |
| 18:38.57 | ruskie | erm takes |
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| 18:39.21 | ruskie | you can power it down and it'll still display if it isn't reset @powerdown |
| 18:40.36 | ZogG | nid0, http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/uo2he32t/screenshot_054.png |
| 18:40.57 | wazd | ruskie: but it has no backlighting, which is rather bad |
| 18:41.04 | ruskie | wazd, not really |
| 18:41.17 | ruskie | backlight is not required |
| 18:41.36 | ruskie | and in generally is bad for the eyes |
| 18:43.01 | wazd | ruskie: and how to type in the dark? |
| 18:43.12 | ruskie | erm... why would I need to type in the dark exactly? |
| 18:43.16 | ShadowJK | eink is like a book, that's the point of it |
| 18:43.38 | SpeedEvil | does most of his typing with the keyboard under the blankets. |
| 18:43.55 | ruskie | I don't read in the dark, I don't watch TV in the dark, don't watch any backlit screens in the dark... |
| 18:44.16 | ruskie | my eyes tend to not like me if I do that |
| 18:45.32 | SpeedEvil | I find properly set backlights not a problem. I read a lot onthe n900. |
| 18:45.43 | SpeedEvil | (with brightness set to the hw minimum) |
| 18:45.45 | ruskie | I feel sad for your eyes |
| 18:46.19 | SpeedEvil | WFM. |
| 18:46.41 | SpeedEvil | I find it easier than the kindle in some ways - it's easir to hold, and I don't need to screw around to get the right lighting. |
| 18:47.11 | ruskie | I have one 100W lightbulb in my room... and I never direct it at what I'm reading but it's pointed up at the ceiling |
| 18:47.22 | wazd | ruskie so basically there should be no backlight in the keys cause you don't often type in the dark? :) |
| 18:47.46 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: what else you do under the blankets |
| 18:47.58 | ds3 | backlights on keys are fine as long as it doesn't impact battery life ;) |
| 18:47.58 | ruskie | wazd, no... but your: eink sucks because it lacks a backlight is in essence a flawed argument |
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| 18:48.29 | ruskie | you could get side lighting on top that would give you sufficient light to do so... |
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| 18:51.49 | wazd | ruskie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZhIYBObWU - here's e-ink side lighting |
| 18:51.50 | ruskie | also I think you could do backlighting... but you'd need some transparent spheres in the mix to do it... and would basically be able to switch between it all |
| 18:52.25 | ruskie | might not be as strong as oled but it should still be visible |
| 18:52.29 | ds3 | didn't sony tried side lighting eink in one of their readers? |
| 18:53.22 | jigrap | is there a way I can add an application catalog to get openssh on my n900? I'm running the latest OS |
| 18:54.26 | jigrap | nvm I found it, it was under the network catalog |
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| 18:58.46 | ruskie | wazd, hmm that's a fast refresh eink... *drool* |
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| 19:01.15 | ruskie | don't see the side lighting |
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| 19:02.31 | wazd | ruskie: light green |
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| 19:02.56 | wazd | ruskie: almost invisible in bright light though |
| 19:03.05 | wazd | http://i032.radikal.ru/1103/f0/8eb5354cf736.jpg <- updated keyboard layout :D |
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| 19:04.06 | ruskie | well don't really need it in bright light |
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| 19:32.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | ponders eink balls that have a white side that has electroliminescent properties |
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| 19:34.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | aslo balls that have 'channels' (like nanotubes) to let light pass thru in exactly one orientation come to mind |
| 19:35.15 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, interesting ideas |
| 19:35.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | basically we had all these with LCD already |
| 19:35.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | just that LCD isn't persistent |
| 19:36.39 | ruskie | and requires power to actually run... |
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| 19:37.22 | Venemo | is there a way to charge the N900 while it's using USB host mode? |
| 19:37.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | nowadays LCD works by polarizing, but I seem to reacll we had colored rods that were 'invisible' when standing in the glass and blue/whatever when parallel to glass |
| 19:38.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~hostmode-powered |
| 19:38.06 | infobot | it has been said that hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 |
| 19:38.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: ^ |
| 19:39.05 | Venemo | thx DocScrutinizer51 |
| 19:39.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | yw |
| 19:39.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | click thanks on that tmo post :-) |
| 19:40.15 | Venemo | will do |
| 19:40.25 | Venemo | oh, no, I won't |
| 19:40.29 | Venemo | seems that I already have. |
| 19:43.02 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, two more questions. 1) can it work with a powered USB hub? 2) where do I get such a weird Y-cable? |
| 19:44.00 | mece | speaking of thanks, sometimes I get really frustrated when people you help don't click that button. It's no big deal really, but if you go out of your way to help with a particular problem it kinda gets to you.. |
| 19:44.21 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, MEMs display characteristic, they actually shimmer like butterfly wings or pearl shell depending upon the orientation |
| 19:44.49 | ruskie | I rather say thank you to the person directly not use some "abstract" function |
| 19:44.51 | lcuk | so different amounts of current change the angle that each tiny mirror sits at |
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| 19:46.38 | mece | ruskie, the function is quite concrete |
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| 19:47.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: powered hub, sure, but you still need that 'weird Y-cable' that comes with every USB HDD and is easily spotted at ebay et al |
| 19:48.22 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, right. so I can just use the one that comes with an HDD? |
| 19:48.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 19:48.35 | Venemo | great :) |
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| 19:51.39 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, will this not short-circuit the hub? |
| 19:51.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | no |
| 19:52.17 | Venemo | okay :) |
| 19:53.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | you can even connect the one plug to thehub's upstream port, and the power-trunk plug to one of the powered hub's downstream ports |
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| 19:54.07 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, my Y-cable has all-male endings. |
| 19:54.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | need an adapter |
| 19:54.40 | Venemo | possible |
| 19:54.51 | Venemo | I think I have one somewhere |
| 19:55.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe even 2 adapters |
| 19:56.17 | Venemo | what do you mean? |
| 19:56.31 | jigrap | is it possible to get gcc to compile natively on the n900? |
| 19:56.43 | jigrap | or I have to use scratchbox to cross compile stuff |
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| 19:57.12 | Venemo | jigrap, it's possible, but not convenient, on the n900 |
| 19:57.20 | Venemo | jigrap, you need to enable the SDK repo and install stuff |
| 19:57.30 | Venemo | jigrap, BEWARE, they're NOT optified. |
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| 19:59.24 | lcuk | jigrap, from small light projects it is a fun game to play. |
| 19:59.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | means you'll run into trouble by filling your rootfs, unless you take special care |
| 19:59.45 | lcuk | level 1-10 involve moving stuff around to make space |
| 20:00.03 | lcuk | level 11-50 involve actually building stuff :P |
| 20:00.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | :) |
| 20:00.49 | *** join/#maemo sunny_s (~sunny_s@86.57.254.135) |
| 20:01.46 | n900evil | It's easy. |
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| 20:02.01 | n900evil | copy / to /home/user/chroot |
| 20:02.14 | n900evil | now cd to that, chroot . sh |
| 20:02.22 | *** part/#maemo an0therb0x (~priest@pool-96-255-88-180.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:02.25 | n900evil | apt-get install gcc |
| 20:02.56 | n900evil | that installs gcc in a chroot, so you can't screw up / |
| 20:02.59 | lcuk | n900evil, that has the same space and complexity requirements :P |
| 20:03.25 | n900evil | does not cause issues on / |
| 20:03.27 | Sazpaimon__ | i would just use scratchbox |
| 20:03.32 | lcuk | and should only be done on device with enoug hfree space on /home |
| 20:03.32 | Sazpaimon__ | its easy to setup |
| 20:03.47 | n900evil | true |
| 20:03.52 | Sazpaimon__ | i have a scratchbox environment set up on one of my dedicated servers |
| 20:04.14 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, sure thing. |
| 20:04.15 | Sazpaimon__ | so I just ssh into it, backport what I need from sid, and download the deb from my n900 |
| 20:04.27 | lcuk | ponders actually making optified micro sdk |
| 20:05.11 | Sazpaimon__ | speaking of which, does anyone want to look at my remmina port and make it not suck? |
| 20:05.33 | Sazpaimon__ | it works, but the interface isn't optimized for small resolutions |
| 20:05.45 | Sazpaimon__ | and my attempts and hildonizing it went awry |
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| 20:06.13 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, that would require me to have remote desktop server wouldn't it? |
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| 20:06.27 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, no, you can run remmina with no plugins |
| 20:06.36 | Sazpaimon__ | remmina is just the frontend |
| 20:06.46 | lcuk | frontend for what? |
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| 20:07.00 | Sazpaimon__ | http://www.ubuntugeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/screenshot1.png |
| 20:07.02 | Sazpaimon__ | that |
| 20:07.16 | Sazpaimon__ | the RDP plugin works fine i believe |
| 20:07.30 | Sazpaimon__ | the actual main interface needs work though |
| 20:08.02 | BCMM | Sazpaimon__: it's just a frontend for VNC and RDP and so on, right? |
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| 20:08.20 | lcuk | BCMM, useful for windows admins I would expect |
| 20:08.32 | Sazpaimon__ | BCCM, RDP, VNC, NX, and XDMCP |
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| 20:08.42 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, when you use it to connect, the UI might not yet look right, but is the connection stable and fast? |
| 20:08.43 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* |
| 20:09.10 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, for the most part, yeah |
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| 20:09.10 | DocScrutinizer | announces special grumpy period |
| 20:09.10 | Sazpaimon__ | for some reason it's only showing 8-bit colors, but that might be a setting getting cut off by the UI |
| 20:09.11 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, I use VNC |
| 20:09.36 | lcuk | heh my vnc server is also configured to send over 8bit only |
| 20:09.47 | Sazpaimon__ | also, fn keys dont seem to work, might just be an issue with how it picks up keyboard events |
| 20:09.47 | RST38h | cheapskates! =) |
| 20:09.51 | lcuk | RST38h, :P |
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| 20:10.14 | Sazpaimon__ | the frontend also has a fullscreen menu that displays when you move your mouse to the top of the screen |
| 20:10.27 | DocScrutinizer | n900evil: agreed, just I'd call it /home/user/sandbox |
| 20:10.31 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, that is tricky since we do not have mice |
| 20:10.31 | Sazpaimon__ | i suppose that could be retained by a gesture |
| 20:10.59 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, right, but by say, quickly sliding the stylus from the top of the screen it can appear |
| 20:11.05 | Sazpaimon__ | for example, that is |
| 20:11.23 | Sazpaimon__ | Oh, and there's support in the git branch for pulseaudio |
| 20:11.29 | Sazpaimon__ | which means audio redirection over RDP |
| 20:11.34 | DocScrutinizer | glares at that friggin MX mouse with the crappy switches |
| 20:11.51 | Sazpaimon__ | possibly audio input too if that uses pulseaudio |
| 20:11.59 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, have it respond to voice command |
| 20:12.08 | DocScrutinizer | ponders to fetch sledgehammer |
| 20:12.15 | lcuk | "WILL THIS GODDAMNED RDP BRING UP THE F&£"^"&^"&^"*&£^"&£ MENU" |
| 20:12.22 | lcuk | "ding!" menu appears |
| 20:12.38 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, audio input is in the RDP plugin itself i believe |
| 20:12.46 | lcuk | shame :P |
| 20:12.51 | Sazpaimon__ | since RDP supports outputting remote audio and inputting local audio |
| 20:13.14 | Sazpaimon__ | which means i could, say, talk on skype over RDP |
| 20:13.22 | DocScrutinizer | eeek a spy |
| 20:13.51 | Sazpaimon__ | also, remmina supports scaling and other junk |
| 20:13.55 | Sazpaimon__ | and zooming support |
| 20:14.08 | DocScrutinizer | "but how will he read the newspaper, rolled up like this" wondered the spider |
| 20:14.12 | Sazpaimon__ | so it might be a worthwhile port |
| 20:14.18 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, any interest? |
| 20:15.20 | Sazpaimon__ | like i said, my attempts at hildonizing the UI failed, I was able to make it work with GTK 2.14 (it's targeted for 2.16), using libsexy, but making the interface look decent is proving difficult for me |
| 20:15.44 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, not personally my VNC configuration works as is, but I am sure there are many people whom it will be useful for |
| 20:16.14 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, making a handheld UI look decent is a very tricky problem for many :) |
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| 20:16.27 | jigrap | thanks guys |
| 20:16.42 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, at this point, just having all the options available would be swell |
| 20:16.42 | jigrap | is there a doc online that I can see how to get scratchbox sdk for ubuntu? |
| 20:16.48 | *** join/#maemo mva (mva@pirate-party.ru) |
| 20:16.55 | mva | hi there! :) |
| 20:17.05 | Sazpaimon__ | most of the menus get cut off with no way to scroll them |
| 20:17.05 | lcuk | jigrap, maemo.org/development or similar |
| 20:17.12 | jigrap | thx |
| 20:17.24 | lcuk | jigrap, setting up the Maemo SDK in Ubuntu is one of the strongly tested pathways |
| 20:17.47 | jigrap | awesome |
| 20:18.24 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, screenshots of your options dialog as it stands would be useful |
| 20:18.41 | Sazpaimon__ | hold on, then |
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| 20:19.23 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ( is a very tricky) see apmefo :-P |
| 20:20.09 | mva | i've a problem: when i runsome pygtk apps under user some of them has black flat buttons and both black background and foreground color in edit boxes. But when i do "su -" to get root clear environment â all of them working fine (renders all elements in right way). |
| 20:20.18 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, eternal problem |
| 20:20.19 | mva | anybody knows, hot to fix this? :) |
| 20:20.45 | DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon__: create submenues |
| 20:21.12 | Sazpaimon__ | DocScrutinizer, I'm very novce with gtk, and even less so with hildon |
| 20:21.37 | DocScrutinizer | install opera, see how it's done there |
| 20:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'd consider opera11b the app with best menues ever |
| 20:24.01 | Sazpaimon__ | DocScrutinizer, I know how it's supposed to look, I just dont know enough about the API to do it myself |
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| 20:32.25 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, http://imgur.com/vJiL3.png |
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| 20:32.25 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, go into Network configuration options dialogs |
| 20:32.26 | lcuk | and see how maemo system lays out similar complex dialogues :) |
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| 20:32.34 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Including non-scrolly bits at the ends, where they gave up. |
| 20:32.44 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, :) |
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| 20:33.00 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, it is indeed one of the most complex dialogs in the whole of maemo |
| 20:33.17 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, so you think foregoing the tabbed options menu for a single scrolling menu might be best? |
| 20:33.27 | Sazpaimon__ | or am I not seeing what dialog you're referring to |
| 20:33.38 | lcuk | Sazpaimon__, I am not giving you any suggestions for what to do! |
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| 20:34.24 | Sazpaimon__ | lcuk, i think you should, I can't really come up with anything nice on my own |
| 20:34.27 | lcuk | Settings/Internet Connections/Connections/Edit/next/next/Advanced |
| 20:34.34 | lcuk | has a 3 tab layout ;) |
| 20:35.01 | Sazpaimon__ | not bad |
| 20:35.12 | Sazpaimon__ | I just need to know how the API renders something like that |
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| 20:35.50 | SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10160 |
| 20:35.51 | povbot | Bug 10160: Connection settings advanced settings do not scroll with drag. |
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| 20:36.24 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, the entire dialog is not ff |
| 20:36.32 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 20:36.37 | lcuk | but afaik it is difficult |
| 20:36.54 | lcuk | at the ux meets code meetup at end of 2009 |
| 20:36.59 | lcuk | this was highlighted :) |
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| 20:37.46 | DocScrutinizer | ~uptime |
| 20:38.01 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen apt |
| 20:38.02 | infobot | apt <ibot@rikers.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 87d 2h 15m 27s ago, saying: 'Cahnops, please /kick me. My alter ego infobot resurrected'. |
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| 20:40.28 | DocScrutinizer | prefers menus of just one screen size, with possible 4 or 5 levels of submenus on new screens |
| 20:41.34 | DocScrutinizer | in my book each screen holds up to 10 menu items, minus [back] is 9 |
| 20:41.56 | DocScrutinizer | makes 9 submenus each with 9 items |
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| 20:42.54 | DocScrutinizer | which in turn could open 81 sub-sub-menus |
| 20:42.59 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, tiled I hope! |
| 20:43.03 | DocScrutinizer | each with 9 items plus back |
| 20:43.09 | lcuk | original liqbase had that design |
| 20:43.17 | lcuk | infact had a UI menu functioncall |
| 20:43.29 | lcuk | you just specified N parameters and it would make the fingerable dialog |
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| 21:15.13 | DocScrutinizer | Ão/ Turkey plans nuke plants, built by Russians and by Tepco(!) [damn, I thought Tepco bought theirs at GE] - of course at shore and in the most earthquake prone areas they could possibly find. Well, when Chernobyl clowd conaminated large areas in Turkey, their minister stated (honestly): "radioactive tea tastes better!". I called Tepco at Fucku "3 stooges" - I seriously miss the right terms for Turkey |
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| 21:17.51 | HtheB | MohammadAG: |
| 21:18.19 | HtheB | Sup :) |
| 21:19.22 | DocScrutinizer | from a macro-darwinistic POV I think it's OK. May the radioactivity sterilize them all. Those who survive are civilizations that were smart enough to kick or even kill their leaders when those tried to sell nuke plants to their people |
| 21:20.36 | DocScrutinizer | kudos to Austria |
| 21:26.48 | mva | hey! |
| 21:27.13 | mva | cansomebody help me with my problem? ;) |
| 21:27.52 | DocScrutinizer | ~ask |
| 21:27.52 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 21:28.46 | mva | DocScrutinizer: i was ask it about hour ago ;) |
| 21:29.01 | mva | »» i've a problem: when i runsome pygtk apps under user some of them has black flat buttons and both black background and foreground color in edit boxes. But when i do "su -" to get root clear environment â all of them working fine (renders all elements in right way). |
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| 21:29.53 | DocScrutinizer | seems some of your relevant files were installed with wrong permissions |
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| 21:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | check for files that miss read perms for group/other |
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| 21:32.09 | mva | is it any way to check which of them? and, btw, i don't think, that problem is in permissions: when i ran them under sudo â it's the same problem. And problem goes away only with clear root env (after "su -") |
| 21:32.34 | mva | and, btw, where i should check perms? in /home/user? |
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| 21:35.25 | HtheB | MohammadAG? |
| 21:35.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | if the problem vanishes only on proper root / su -, but not on sudo ginroot / su, then it evidently depends on environment of root, which is ~ and $PATH and envs |
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| 21:37.03 | BCMM | mva: have you got a screwed-up gtkrc? |
| 21:37.17 | BCMM | (or $GTK2_RC_FILES) |
| 21:37.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | so, as I still suspect some files are the problem, you should check what's in ~root/* and try set $path of user to that of root temporarily to check |
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| 21:49.19 | mva | BCMM: uhm... I don't touch it, but as i see, it is no such GTK2_RC_FILES variable under user (and it IS under root). But, bad thing: if i set it under user to the same value, as it is under root â it is no effect :( |
| 21:49.46 | BCMM | is it a gtk or qt application? |
| 21:50.39 | mva | pygtk (some C gtk apps working fine) |
| 21:51.16 | mva | (xchat, for example) |
| 21:53.52 | mva | btw, yep, long time ago, it was the same problem with qt apps (sync evolution, for example), but it was fixed by maintainers. |
| 21:54.27 | mva | and I don't know how to fix this thing with gtk ;) |
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| 22:08.26 | mva | btw, DocScrutinizer51, if i set HOME=/root under user â it is still broken looking in this apps, and even if i set HOME=/home/user under root with "su -" â it is still good. So, i doubt, if it is files fault. But, in other hand, i try to reexport root env under user, and it is no effect too :( |
| 22:09.39 | DocScrutinizer | hmm that's strange |
| 22:10.34 | DocScrutinizer | you said sudo gainroot doesn't fix. So do sudo gainroot, then bit by bit set env to match that of a proper root env |
| 22:11.12 | DocScrutinizer | first change $HOME to /root, cd |
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| 22:11.29 | DocScrutinizer | then set $PATH to that of root env |
| 22:11.44 | DocScrutinizer | check app after each change |
| 22:11.57 | Sazpaimon__ | i need to stop chewing on my stylus |
| 22:12.36 | DocScrutinizer | continue with env $vars that are related to gtk (dunno exactly what these are, I think there are some, for theme, font, etc) |
| 22:16.02 | DocScrutinizer | mva: I think BCMM got sth there. You should unset that $GTK2_RC_FILES var under root and see if things break, rather than set it under user and hope it will fix things |
| 22:17.40 | DocScrutinizer | odds are there's more than one point of failure (e.g. env var not set, and the files pointed at in that var are not readable for user) |
| 22:18.43 | DocScrutinizer | so you got a really daunting task to fix the user environment. Better see which of the differences between user and root make root fail when setting them to the state found in user |
| 22:19.28 | mva | huh... it break in oter way: this apps looks ugly (default gtk light gray interface with BIG square buttons) :) |
| 22:19.34 | mva | *other |
| 22:20.06 | mva | and, btw, under user too ;) |
| 22:20.16 | DocScrutinizer | you should consider creating a proper backup, then reflash&restore |
| 22:22.19 | DocScrutinizer | or, another approach, you could lsof your app under root and under user, and compare which files are open for root but missing/different_path for user |
| 22:22.25 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-115-6.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:24.22 | mva | btw, can somebody paste /etc/hildon/theme/gtk-2.0/gtkrc? |
| 22:24.42 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
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| 22:26.08 | DocScrutinizer | umm sorry, 129kB |
| 22:26.31 | mva | can you upload it to ompldr.org? :) |
| 22:27.27 | BCMM | there really needs to be a sharing plugin for that... |
| 22:27.36 | BCMM | i wonder how they work |
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| 22:30.33 | DocScrutinizer | mva: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/gtkrc | gtkrc.cache |
| 22:30.50 | mva | thx |
| 22:31.51 | DocScrutinizer | finished? |
| 22:32.07 | mva | yep, thx |
| 22:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
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| 22:39.44 | mva | huh... strange thing... if i delete gtkrc from there â it is identical default gtk's BIG-square gray interface both under root and user. but even with your gtkrc under user i see broken black flat interface ;) (and under root i see it normally). very-very-very strange... |
| 22:44.35 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.163) |
| 22:45.04 | Sazpaimon__ | okay this doesnt make sense |
| 22:45.05 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 22:45.23 | Sazpaimon__ | the same program builds find on an FREEMANTLE_ARMEL target, but FREEMANTLE_X86 errors out |
| 22:45.32 | Sazpaimon__ | error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'HildonProgram' |
| 22:45.52 | Sazpaimon__ | I |
| 22:46.03 | Sazpaimon__ | I'm including hildon/hildon-program.h, so i dont know why this isn't working |
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| 23:15.13 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 23:15.31 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 23:22.16 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 23:22.16 | infobot | :), DocScrutinizer |
| 23:22.29 | DocScrutinizer | ~+uptime |
| 23:22.50 | chem|st | mmh how may I invert/mirror my xserver-display? |
| 23:23.23 | DocScrutinizer | xrandr? |
| 23:23.43 | chem|st | is there xrandr? |
| 23:23.54 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, thought so |
| 23:24.25 | DocScrutinizer | umm no |
| 23:24.34 | chem|st | at least there is libxrandr2 |
| 23:27.26 | chem|st | just remembered having a nice but mirror image when putting the n900 right in front of my speedmeter in car (at night) |
| 23:28.01 | SpeedEvil | Put the n900 facing down. |
| 23:28.13 | SpeedEvil | And it'll be the right way round. |
| 23:28.17 | SpeedEvil | Err. |
| 23:28.18 | SpeedEvil | nvm |
| 23:28.24 | chem|st | SpeedEvil: hehe |
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| 23:28.51 | chem|st | the image is mirrored in the plastic shield of the meters... |
| 23:29.26 | BCMM | chem|st: there is xrandr, the protocol, but there is not /usr/bin/xrandr |
| 23:29.47 | BCMM | sorry, i mean there is an RandR extension |
| 23:29.58 | chem|st | also for having it attached to a projector with rearprojection this feature would be nice |
| 23:30.04 | BCMM | xrandr would work if you installed it; it works for me when i ssh -x to a machine that has it |
| 23:30.49 | chem|st | BCMM: yeah now we need programs to make use of it |
| 23:31.07 | chem|st | like mappero or columbus |
| 23:31.13 | chem|st | and TVout |
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| 23:44.29 | DocScrutinizer | apt-cache search TVout... |
| 23:46.01 | DocScrutinizer | ...or xrandr |
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