| 00:00.23 | Jef91 | wow |
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| 00:00.32 | Jef91 | I wish I could get that network in chicago |
| 00:00.36 | Jef91 | I get round 2mb here |
| 00:00.38 | Jef91 | burst up to 5 |
| 00:05.17 | pupnik_ | don't start too many projects |
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| 00:18.42 | Pillum | hey |
| 00:19.07 | Pillum | is it illegal to decompile an android app to recode it? |
| 00:21.55 | wmarone | probably |
| 00:22.37 | Guest40473 | sounds OK to me |
| 00:26.06 | Guest40473 | in the states we just have laws preventing "unauthorized use of a computing resource" |
| 00:26.43 | Guest40473 | which does not cover decompilation of software you have license to use. |
| 00:27.06 | Venemo | who cares about what laws are there in the states...? |
| 00:27.08 | Guest40473 | and the federal DMCA, which only protects products with "protection mechanisms" |
| 00:27.14 | Guest40473 | maybe Pillum does. |
| 00:27.16 | SpeedEvil | EULAs? |
| 00:27.24 | Venemo | I don't live in the state, so I don't. |
| 00:27.24 | SpeedEvil | They usually say 'cannot decompile, ...' |
| 00:27.43 | SpeedEvil | And AIUI EULAs have been decided to be binding - at least what law has been made around them. |
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| 00:28.01 | Pillum | I live in germany |
| 00:28.35 | Jartza | In Europe, the 1991 Software Directive explicitly provides for a right to decompile in order to achieve interoperability. |
| 00:32.39 | Jartza | http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31991L0250:EN:HTML |
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| 00:33.27 | Jartza | There is the "Article 6" about decompilation |
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| 01:52.21 | yacc | Any idea how to make the N900 create a resolv.conf based on the data sent from my mobile provider? |
| 02:01.39 | Dhraakellian | so, I'm trying to get fldigi working |
| 02:01.59 | Dhraakellian | sound is a bit stuttery with the version available through the debian chroot |
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| 02:10.00 | Termana | good morning |
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| 02:23.24 | pupnik_ | hallo Termana |
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| 02:58.06 | Dhraakellian | trying to figure out how to get dev headers for samplerate |
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| 03:46.59 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: replace ICD2 by sth that works that way you want |
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| 03:50.55 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: check /var/run/resolv.conf.* |
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| 06:00.24 | macmaN | morning guys |
| 06:00.43 | macmaN | is anyone using anything here to get a single-click wifi connect |
| 06:00.52 | macmaN | single-tap i guess.. |
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| 06:01.09 | macmaN | having to 3 taps to connect and 3 to disconnect is just not right |
| 06:01.45 | macmaN | i was feeling the same way about brightness setting and simple-brightness-applet solved that absolutely beautiful |
| 06:02.16 | macmaN | i think if wifi applet could show like to last 3-5 wifi network directly in status menu it'd be great |
| 06:02.29 | macmaN | anyone agree? |
| 06:04.05 | Sc0rpius | why don't you get the widget |
| 06:04.32 | Sc0rpius | I just tap the widget and it connects to the wifi at home, just one single tap |
| 06:05.04 | Sc0rpius | you can put as many widgets (I forgot the name) as you want, each for a different connection, different wifis or even 3G |
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| 06:05.49 | macmaN | hrm |
| 06:06.15 | Sc0rpius | it's the best solution, you'll love it |
| 06:06.36 | macmaN | i searched with apt-cache search but couldnt find anything for "wifi" |
| 06:06.48 | macmaN | perhaps i should try with appman |
| 06:06.48 | Sc0rpius | ConnectNow is the name I guess, lemme verify |
| 06:07.16 | Sc0rpius | connectnow-home-widget - A desktop widget to switch internet connections. |
| 06:07.33 | Sc0rpius | and if you tap the widget when you're connected it disconnects. It's amazing |
| 06:07.53 | macmaN | hrm, i shouldve searched "internet" i guess :/ |
| 06:08.19 | macmaN | there is also something called connection-switcher |
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| 06:08.35 | Sc0rpius | if you're using several wifis, just create a desktop widget for it |
| 06:08.40 | Sc0rpius | "Home", "Work", etc |
| 06:08.43 | macmaN | yep right, thanks |
| 06:08.51 | Sc0rpius | I only have 2: my home wifi and the 3G |
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| 06:35.47 | macmaN | Sc0rpius: ok it does do what i want, but how can i add multiple widgets, it disappears from list after one |
| 06:37.24 | Sc0rpius | I don't get it |
| 06:37.48 | Sc0rpius | I have several of those in my desktop, I just click on the desktop settings, add another widget, select COnnectNow, etc |
| 06:38.10 | Sc0rpius | it disappears from the widget list? that's weird. I can add as many as I want. |
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| 06:40.48 | macmaN | i try reboot |
| 06:41.03 | macmaN | it actually installed that one automatically too |
| 06:41.09 | macmaN | so i never used the widget menu |
| 06:41.17 | Sc0rpius | that's weirder |
| 06:44.00 | DocScrutinizer | X-Multiple=true in .../hildon-home/*.desktop -- needs reboot or killall hildon-home to take effect |
| 06:44.34 | Sc0rpius | but I don't remember I did that when I installed it |
| 06:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | why don't you use "[X] connect to WiFi if available" when your only two internet connections are home-wifi and GPRS? |
| 06:45.28 | Sc0rpius | that will connect it automatically |
| 06:45.38 | Sc0rpius | most people don't want their N900 be online 24/7 |
| 06:45.46 | Sc0rpius | I don't |
| 06:45.49 | DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: it's probably already in .desktop, but maybe the reboot is missing |
| 06:45.50 | macmaN | Sc0rpius: widget appeared after reboot |
| 06:46.15 | Sc0rpius | yeah maybe |
| 06:46.15 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: that's that evil option that silently drops gprs connections when wifi is available? |
| 06:46.26 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
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| 06:46.36 | DocScrutinizer | what's evil about it? |
| 06:47.00 | slonopotamus | it drops working connections :) |
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| 06:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | it's just evil when I switch to GPRS deliberately as my WiFi has no internet connection due to some outage |
| 06:48.24 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: that's a problem indeed, might need some smart algo to delay switching if some download or similar is busy |
| 06:48.39 | slonopotamus | 1. connect to 3g. 2. ssh/irc/telnet anywhere 3. come into wifi ap range 4. woops, connections dropped |
| 06:48.41 | slonopotamus | downloads too, yep |
| 06:48.57 | macmaN | how come there is so much whitespace on the right side of status menu |
| 06:49.04 | macmaN | non-usable whitespace* |
| 06:49.15 | DocScrutinizer | they had surplus |
| 06:49.19 | macmaN | i'd love a finger sized bluetooth toggle there |
| 06:49.45 | Sc0rpius | there's also a widget for that |
| 06:49.48 | macmaN | yeah the "we're nokia, we're NEVER gonna lose" thinking |
| 06:49.52 | DocScrutinizer | so what? go ahead build one ;-D |
| 06:49.57 | macmaN | Sc0rpius: i'm using blueswitch right now |
| 06:50.16 | Sc0rpius | good |
| 06:50.35 | macmaN | but it's icon size is non-configurable and it takes up an icon space |
| 06:51.15 | DocScrutinizer | I used to use two QB buttons to enable/disable "[X] connect to WiFi if available" |
| 06:51.18 | macmaN | DocScrutinizer: yep i just might do that |
| 06:53.02 | DocScrutinizer | alas installing CSSU nuked those 2 QB widgets and I'm absolutely fed up with spending another 60min to tailor friggin QB to show "normal" buttons instead of that yuck honeycomb design |
| 06:53.15 | ruskie | hehe |
| 06:53.52 | macmaN | ah here's another one |
| 06:54.08 | macmaN | is there a reason why virtual keyboard doesnt provide visual feedback right now? |
| 06:54.24 | macmaN | is that theme specific? |
| 06:54.25 | DocScrutinizer | I really hate it when that happens - you spent hours (or even days) to tailor some cute custom thing, and pooof it's gone |
| 06:54.47 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24/google_will_not_open_source_android_honeycomb_on_release_of_first_devices/ <-- hahaha |
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| 06:55.23 | macmaN | wow opera's vkeyboard is nice! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=974490#post974490 |
| 06:55.54 | DocScrutinizer | headdesks |
| 06:56.35 | macmaN | ruskie: :) whoa |
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| 06:58.55 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHA, so much for Andridiot |
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| 07:00.10 | DocScrutinizer | >>We didn't want to think about what it would take for the same software to run on phones. |
| 07:00.40 | DocScrutinizer | me neither, dear Google, me neither for sure |
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| 07:06.03 | macmaN | :) |
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| 07:32.24 | Mece | \o |
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| 08:16.29 | mece | hello all |
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| 08:27.17 | pupnik_ | http://i.imgur.com/WzIj5.png added inventory / knapsack drawing and thumb buttons for spells/skills/quest/help |
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| 08:33.02 | mece | pupnik_, what's this now? |
| 08:33.58 | pupnik_ | a challenging semi-roguelike online mmorpg |
| 08:34.28 | pronto | pupnik_: fyi that house there, has no roof :s |
| 08:34.37 | pupnik_ | i'm pretty happy with how sharp the knapsack turned-out |
| 08:34.40 | mece | it doesn't rain there. |
| 08:34.53 | mece | what is it called? |
| 08:34.58 | pupnik_ | Daimonin |
| 08:35.01 | mece | ultima online comes to mind |
| 08:35.11 | mece | are you the developer of this game? |
| 08:35.25 | pupnik_ | no i'm trying to make the client usable on n900 |
| 08:35.28 | mece | (or just maemo client) |
| 08:35.29 | mece | right |
| 08:35.41 | mece | is the game good? |
| 08:35.49 | pronto | thinks minecraft sould be on n900 |
| 08:36.05 | mece | minecraft seems to be all the rage |
| 08:36.06 | ruskie | isn't there openjdk? |
| 08:36.17 | mece | yes |
| 08:36.22 | mece | minecraft could work |
| 08:36.26 | ruskie | so anyone actually tried running it? |
| 08:36.26 | mece | idunno |
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| 08:36.32 | pronto | mece: i made the mistake of buying minecraft...its all i been doing for the past few days :s |
| 08:36.35 | mece | and java don't mix |
| 08:37.06 | mece | pronto, what's so good about it? |
| 08:37.10 | pupnik_ | i like it a lot, it's not too vast |
| 08:37.19 | pronto | *shrugs* its just damn addicting for some reason |
| 08:37.22 | mece | pupnik_, url plz? |
| 08:37.30 | pupnik_ | www.daimonin.org |
| 08:37.39 | mece | thankee-sai |
| 08:37.55 | mece | is it playable on n900? |
| 08:38.13 | pupnik_ | it might be someday |
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| 08:39.20 | mece | FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU "The password does not include enough variation to be secure. Try:Adding both upper and lowercase letters.Adding punctuation." |
| 08:39.25 | mece | I HATE that |
| 08:39.30 | mece | rages |
| 08:39.35 | mece | sips some tea |
| 08:39.40 | mece | calms down |
| 08:39.46 | mece | reads the message again |
| 08:39.49 | mece | rages |
| 08:39.59 | pronto | o.O |
| 08:40.07 | pronto | wahts it for? |
| 08:40.19 | mece | daimonin |
| 08:40.21 | pronto | ah |
| 08:42.10 | mece | I have a serious problem with these kinds of limitations |
| 08:42.15 | Corsac | tr -cd '[[:graph:]]' < /dev/urandom | head -c 8 |
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| 08:42.31 | mece | Corsac, ? |
| 08:42.50 | Corsac | just a quick random password generator :) |
| 08:42.52 | pronto | o.O |
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| 08:43.03 | mece | I do not want a random password, I want one of my passwords |
| 08:43.25 | mece | and I don't want one of my super secure passwords, because they are a pain to type |
| 08:44.20 | mece | and I want to limit their use to avoid them being caught in a trojan, and be used in more important places by association |
| 08:45.12 | pupnik_ | if you try the game, please take notes of what you find frustrating |
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| 08:45.24 | mece | oh wait |
| 08:45.30 | mece | I spoke too soon |
| 08:45.48 | mece | it accepted the password even if it was deemed unsecure! |
| 08:45.56 | mece | just as it should. Awesome! |
| 08:46.01 | mece | I take it all back |
| 08:46.22 | mece | pupnik_, ok I has account. Where can I find the client? |
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| 08:48.41 | mece | LOL well the windows client crashed on startup :D |
| 08:48.51 | mece | but who cares. I needs N900 client |
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| 08:56.44 | [jamez] | I've looked all over but can't figure this out: I just bought a n800 off a friend and was trying to flash it. My linux box can't find the device at all. lsusb shows nothing. he's got a few apps to enable host mode. I think it's stuck. Any suggestions? |
| 08:57.02 | [jamez] | my n770 flashes fine using the same box, and same cable. |
| 08:58.12 | mece | maemo.org is super slow today |
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| 09:50.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | jamez: (cba to enter that first char for nick :-S ) you checked to follow correct procedure to flash, incl holding the right button when powering up? |
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| 09:52.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | also note there might be another flasher prog needed for 8x0 than for 770 |
| 09:52.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~flashing |
| 09:52.43 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
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| 10:13.11 | [jamez] | DocScrutinizer51: Yeah, i've tried two flashers, followed the guide several times and am sure that it's properly inf lash mode :\ |
| 10:13.41 | [jamez] | nothing shows up in dmesg when I connect or disconnect the usb cable with the N800 powered on, or in flash mode |
| 10:14.05 | robbiethe1st | Broken USB port, possibly>? |
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| 10:16.27 | [jamez] | possibly |
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| 10:24.27 | ruskie | http://delong.typepad.com/.a/6a00e551f080038834014e600f22b6970c-pi <-- hehe |
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| 10:36.04 | compengi | i tried to convert mkv 1080p blueray rip to mp4 file format using Avidemux. i have followed this link http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding#Avidemux and download the x264 n900 optimization, i set the audio to AAC 160kbps as according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding#Standard_Audio_Codecs it shouldn't make trouble, but when i open the video on the phone i get video but no sound? |
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| 10:54.38 | DocScrutinizer | [jamez]: you know to use a DMM? |
| 10:56.31 | [jamez] | DocScrutinizer: Not sure what DMM stands for, so I'm guessing that I don't yet know :) |
| 10:56.36 | DocScrutinizer | ~DMM |
| 10:56.36 | infobot | it has been said that dmm is Digital MultiMeter |
| 10:56.39 | MohammadAG | Digital Rights Management |
| 10:56.53 | [jamez] | ah a multimeter. yeah, I can use one of those :) |
| 10:58.13 | DocScrutinizer | Probe voltage from D+/- pins of a stripped USB cable (or adapter on a CA-101) to any of the other 2 - which are VBUS-5V external (unless hostmode enabled) and GND |
| 10:58.18 | MohammadAG | oh, thought you said DRM |
| 10:58.22 | MohammadAG | facepalms |
| 10:58.38 | DocScrutinizer | if the USB port is OK you for sure should see some 10..100mV |
| 10:59.16 | [jamez] | Awesome. I'll have to look into that when I have a chance. |
| 10:59.19 | [jamez] | Thanks for the advice |
| 10:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | If it's a *good* DMM (low probe voltage <1.5V) you also can probe resistance - watch out for black cable of tester connected to GND! |
| 11:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | each of D+/- should see some 1.5kR to VBUS, or 14kR either to GND, IIRC |
| 11:01.57 | DocScrutinizer | don't use dirt cheap R-Meter as they often have probe voltage ~9V of the used 9V-block batery |
| 11:02.09 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:02.33 | DocScrutinizer | probably touching the probe tips both same time with your tounge is a rather good test if it's safe or not |
| 11:02.44 | chem|st | is doing resistance maps in 4D atm... sounds awesome but is purely boring... |
| 11:02.55 | DocScrutinizer | ...while R range enabled and Meter on! |
| 11:03.25 | DocScrutinizer | 4D like Einstein continuum? |
| 11:03.42 | chem|st | 3D topography + resistance |
| 11:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 11:04.16 | DocScrutinizer | 4th dimension a bit different than time, but anyway |
| 11:05.09 | DocScrutinizer | probing impedance of a pot toast? |
| 11:05.52 | MohammadAG | So, who else wanted this in the stock player? http://i56.tinypic.com/1z3wldy.jpg :) |
| 11:05.53 | chem|st | toast? |
| 11:06.00 | DocScrutinizer | roast |
| 11:06.13 | chem|st | poti tracks |
| 11:06.18 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 11:06.26 | DocScrutinizer | boring |
| 11:06.29 | chem|st | sure |
| 11:06.56 | chem|st | the chemical maps are more fascinating but still some kind of boring... |
| 11:07.16 | DocScrutinizer | I'd be more interested in impedance of my steak ;-D |
| 11:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if the brown crust is of higher resistance than the english inner part due to lack of humidity, or maybe the carbon makes for a lower resistance :-D |
| 11:09.18 | chem|st | the carbon makes for a lower resistance |
| 11:09.38 | DocScrutinizer | s/english/rare meduim/ |
| 11:10.11 | chem|st | there is not enough salt to overpower a nice carbon surface |
| 11:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | ~useless |
| 11:10.15 | infobot | ACTION starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( |
| 11:10.58 | chem|st | remembers measuring purity of DLC coatings on drills... |
| 11:11.18 | DocScrutinizer | duh, *action* |
| 11:11.23 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 11:11.23 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 11:12.44 | DocScrutinizer | DLC? |
| 11:12.50 | chem|st | diamond like carbon |
| 11:12.58 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
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| 11:13.08 | FauxFaux | Downloadable Content for drillbits? |
| 11:13.10 | FauxFaux | New market. |
| 11:13.26 | chem|st | O_o |
| 11:13.41 | DocScrutinizer | wonders about diamonds and electric current |
| 11:14.17 | DocScrutinizer | either extremely good or extremely bad conductors, I guess |
| 11:15.52 | chem|st | insulating |
| 11:16.35 | chem|st | a highly scratchresistant insulator |
| 11:16.59 | lcuk | diamond lined wiring |
| 11:17.21 | Psi | don't suppose anyone knows how close you can get to a 2kW tesla coil before damaging your n900? |
| 11:17.23 | cehteh | hehe serves as cutting tool to and makes the girl jealous |
| 11:17.27 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 11:17.52 | mece | Psi, I don't but lemme know when you find out. |
| 11:17.56 | Psi | heh |
| 11:18.16 | cehteh | Psi: its more about how good you ground the n900, just being in a charged field should not directly cause damage .. but as soon the electrictiy flows it gets nasty |
| 11:18.23 | lcuk | Psi, I will hold your beer whilst you do some tests. |
| 11:18.41 | Psi | haha |
| 11:19.01 | mece | cehteh, well I assume he's not going to allow the 2kW to go through him. that would be awkward. |
| 11:19.12 | cehteh | while such high voltages flow over the surface maybe the n900 could survive it, just try out and report |
| 11:19.39 | lcuk | if you held out your stylus would it be a mini lightening rod? |
| 11:19.47 | cehteh | perhaps |
| 11:19.52 | Psi | its plastic, doubt it |
| 11:20.01 | cehteh | surface ... |
| 11:20.25 | cehteh | if there are smears of finger grease and humidity it might be enough |
| 11:20.33 | chem|st | Psi: do not underestimate the carbon layer you have on any surface |
| 11:20.45 | mece | I still think it would go in through usb and out through 3.5mm |
| 11:20.53 | cehteh | yes and the black plastic is likely tinted with carbon poweder |
| 11:20.55 | mece | faster than across dirty plastic |
| 11:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | diamond is an extremely good electrical isolator, or - depending on dotation - a semiconductor |
| 11:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | (according to wikipedia / google) |
| 11:21.13 | chem|st | mece: wont the metal top edge is much mor attrackting |
| 11:21.15 | mece | DocScrutinizer, I hear it's expensive though |
| 11:21.39 | mece | Right yes. naturally most stuff would go through that. |
| 11:22.11 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: ++ |
| 11:22.20 | cehteh | when it comes to tesla coils, isolator or not doesnt really mater much anymore, capacity and surface effects take over |
| 11:22.59 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: (tesla) NB you got antennae on N900 :-o |
| 11:23.00 | mece | Still, I think that if there is conduction, the n900 will die. |
| 11:23.01 | cehteh | you shield a tesla coil with a farrday cage and not with isolators |
| 11:23.20 | Psi | my scientific calculator stops working around 40cm from my flyback+tripler which puts out around 60kV |
| 11:23.34 | cehteh | haha ... geek dream feature for the n950; buildin tesla coil :) |
| 11:23.50 | mece | Psi, does it start working again once you move away from it? |
| 11:23.54 | Psi | yeah |
| 11:23.58 | mece | nice |
| 11:24.05 | Psi | but id be more worried the n900 would overwrite some nand |
| 11:24.25 | mece | Psi, well I assume that there are some components that are sensitive to electromagnetic fields. |
| 11:24.29 | mece | Psi, that would suck |
| 11:24.57 | cehteh | turn nand into prom :) |
| 11:25.03 | Psi | heh yeah |
| 11:25.14 | chem|st | ask nokia for a try out device and walk in crying out loud "for sience" |
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| 11:27.20 | DocScrutinizer | depending on resonance freq of tesla coil, the antennae of N900 could catch up *way* too much energy which will fry semiconductors for sure. No way to shield that, except by placing the whole device into a faraday cage |
| 11:28.13 | DocScrutinizer | if you want to do a quick test for getting ballpark figures, then place N900 into a microwave |
| 11:28.34 | Psi | i think ill pass |
| 11:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | ill pass? |
| 11:29.01 | Psi | i'll |
| 11:29.07 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i doubt that, whats the factor of the antenna lambda/4? teslas frequencies are way lower than the some Ghz where the n900 antennas operate |
| 11:29.32 | DocScrutinizer | you'll pass the microwave test? Don't you think you'll look like that legendary US cat? |
| 11:30.14 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: FMTX :-P |
| 11:30.21 | cehteh | ok |
| 11:30.22 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: harmonics |
| 11:30.49 | cehteh | yes but with shorter antennas and harmonics on the lower side thats somewhat unlikely |
| 11:31.02 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: even a massively detuned antenna will still catch up quite a percentage of EM |
| 11:31.26 | cehteh | yeah |
| 11:31.31 | Psi | aww n900 doesnt pickup my new ipv6 network |
| 11:31.37 | DocScrutinizer | it's simply an exposed half of a capacitor |
| 11:32.03 | DocScrutinizer | halve? |
| 11:32.20 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 11:32.22 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@cs78181065.pp.htv.fi) |
| 11:34.34 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: also quite an interesting problem if the touchscreen planes work as a large area antenna with lower (kbd) half of device as the other end of dipole |
| 11:35.07 | DocScrutinizer | envisions some smoking copper traces on main PCB |
| 11:36.26 | DocScrutinizer | touchpanel has OVP/tranzorbs, but those are mW, not 2kW ;-D |
| 11:36.34 | Psi | heh |
| 11:36.56 | chem|st | there will be a *poff* and a little smoke on the gaps... thats it |
| 11:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | 2kW tesla, what a friggin monster :-O |
| 11:38.12 | Psi | i should point out, that the 60kV flyback+tripler i talked about earlier crashes my calculator at 40cm, Its around 80W |
| 11:38.35 | Psi | bit of a difference between 80W and 2000W |
| 11:38.35 | DocScrutinizer | it's semiconductor tranzorbs (before) - your description might apply to the spark gaps they become by doing this test ;-D |
| 11:39.35 | DocScrutinizer | Psi: what's that flyback&tripler thing? CRT? |
| 11:39.51 | Psi | origionally, but its been modded |
| 11:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | what's tripler? a cascade? then you got DC, not RF |
| 11:40.26 | Psi | yeah, the trippler is DC |
| 11:40.27 | crashanddie | you guys sound like the clueless actors in Numb3rs. |
| 11:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: that's because *you* are clueless so can't tell the difference :-D |
| 11:41.06 | crashanddie | Exactly my point. |
| 11:41.24 | Psi | however the caps in the multipler charge up and arc and then repeat, so it does send out pulses |
| 11:42.10 | DocScrutinizer | in the Hz range, not high kHz or even MHz like a tesla does |
| 11:42.46 | Psi | well yeah, the flyback puts out around 30khz, but the pulses coming out of the multipler would be in hz |
| 11:43.24 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I've seen digital circuits (TTL 74xx) acting up on sparks of a van der Graaf 2m distant |
| 11:43.33 | Psi | heh |
| 11:43.44 | *** join/#maemo ketas (~ketas@195.20.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 11:44.16 | DocScrutinizer | we should take it to #electronics |
| 11:44.29 | DocScrutinizer | before crashanddie gets pissed |
| 11:44.35 | Psi | yeah, forgot i was in here |
| 11:45.16 | *** join/#maemo jevin (~jevin@manbearpig.ecn.purdue.edu) |
| 11:45.23 | DocScrutinizer | waves and frowns on RL tasks on his schedule of today |
| 11:45.41 | Psi | ill probably go to bed anyway, its midnight here |
| 11:45.49 | DocScrutinizer | oops |
| 11:45.56 | DocScrutinizer | noon here :-D |
| 11:46.08 | Psi | heh |
| 11:46.16 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, n8 everybody |
| 11:46.21 | DocScrutinizer | ~ugt |
| 11:46.21 | infobot | rumour has it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 11:47.14 | Psi | nite |
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| 12:00.27 | *** join/#maemo ricki8024 (~try@89.204.137.100) |
| 12:01.28 | ricki8024 | hi |
| 12:03.57 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu) |
| 12:09.03 | lardman | thinks he has made a units mistake, not sure there are 8581 postcodes within 100m radius of my house |
| 12:09.11 | ruskie | hehe |
| 12:10.23 | SpeedEvil | That would mean 120000 houses or so. |
| 12:10.33 | SpeedEvil | Which does seem unlikely, unless you're in mexico city. |
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| 12:14.07 | lardman | yeah, I guess I misinterpreted the units of the Easting/Northing dataset |
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| 12:39.05 | lolcat | A guy called to sell me a phone subscription and a phonoe |
| 12:39.23 | lolcat | He had to admitt he couldn't find a bether phone, nor a subscription |
| 12:39.32 | ruskie | hehe |
| 12:39.45 | ruskie | I don't think I got a marketing call on my cell phone number |
| 12:40.04 | ruskie | of course the number is unlisted... but still... in 13 years or? |
| 12:40.16 | lolcat | It was my last provider |
| 12:40.23 | lolcat | So they would have my number either way |
| 12:40.50 | lolcat | It was amuzing, he was like: "Wow, can you really do that?" And then he asked about my data usage |
| 12:40.51 | ruskie | my provider is using some external company to do quality assurance for service calls |
| 12:40.59 | auenf | dad gets calls offering him a $29 cap plan |
| 12:41.04 | ruskie | they called me once I said I'm not interested and please don't call me again |
| 12:41.10 | auenf | claiming that it'll save him $100/month |
| 12:41.13 | ruskie | and then contacted the service rep to also tell him the same... |
| 12:41.19 | auenf | his last bill was 87c |
| 12:41.30 | ruskie | then get a second call from the same company |
| 12:41.44 | ruskie | and I just went nuclear and yelled that the reason I was calling them was for them to stop calling me |
| 12:41.48 | *** join/#maemo d1b (~db@d1b.org) |
| 12:41.52 | auenf | so he tries to get them to realise that it wont save him money, and makes them hang up on him |
| 12:41.55 | ruskie | never got a single call from them again |
| 12:42.14 | lolcat | auenf: Hehe, this guy was actually honest and told me he couldn't offer me anything. |
| 12:42.16 | ruskie | I just listen to any telemakreter that actually manages to get to the front door/finds the phone number |
| 12:42.26 | ruskie | if you let them do their pitch it means they won't bug you again |
| 12:42.48 | auenf | all the ones we get are just reading from a script |
| 12:42.56 | RST38h | moo all |
| 12:43.03 | ZogG | hey |
| 12:43.11 | ZogG | anyone with meego on n900 here? |
| 12:43.33 | ZogG | i wonder how is multitasking in there |
| 12:43.33 | ZogG | how do you switch and so on |
| 12:43.46 | ruskie | ZogG, I'd wait for 1.2 developer edition |
| 12:44.13 | lolcat | ruskie: This one asked me about my phone, I love bragging about my phone. I was highly amused telling him what I thougth of the diffrent phone oses, and how mine was superior. |
| 12:44.23 | ruskie | hehe |
| 12:44.30 | ruskie | I guess it helps that I haven't yet changed my provider once |
| 12:44.38 | ruskie | they just keep being competitive and competant |
| 12:44.50 | auenf | my number has done a whole lap of all the providers here |
| 12:44.56 | lolcat | I save quite a lot on changing provider |
| 12:45.00 | RST38h | ZogG <-- a fat troll |
| 12:45.11 | auenf | optus->telstra->vodafone->optus |
| 12:46.16 | ZogG | RST38h, yes, i am but i wonder how does it work, as in andtroid/iphone and others or like maemo |
| 12:46.53 | ruskie | ahh you mean if it suspends or actually keeps them running |
| 12:47.50 | lolcat | I buy a new bluetooth headset, and it still doesn't work |
| 12:48.06 | ab | RST38h, <-- a big troll |
| 12:48.18 | lolcat | <---- a medium sized troll |
| 12:48.22 | auenf | heh, bluetooth headset |
| 12:48.30 | auenf | i just need to make my car support a2dp |
| 12:49.08 | lolcat | I wish the N900 could act as a bluetooth handsfree |
| 12:49.20 | ZogG | ruskie, i mean if it's separete open windows like in maemo/desktop or it's kinda option to put them into tray or whatever android does |
| 12:49.27 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 12:49.55 | lolcat | ZogG: I hate the android implementation |
| 12:50.00 | ruskie | I think it's realtime |
| 12:50.03 | ruskie | not suspend |
| 12:50.19 | ZogG | but how does the UX shows it? |
| 12:50.47 | ruskie | no clue... been a while since I ran meego |
| 12:51.00 | ruskie | frankly don't like the meego handset ux... nokia gives a more maemo like UX :( |
| 12:53.12 | ZogG | it's more android ui |
| 12:53.15 | ZogG | so that's why i asked |
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| 13:00.29 | RST38h | moorning, ab |
| 13:00.45 | ab | RST38h, east coast already? |
| 13:00.51 | RST38h | has got an E7 to play with. Not half bad. But Symbian is killing it =( |
| 13:00.53 | RST38h | ab: yea |
| 13:01.02 | ab | cool |
| 13:01.10 | RST38h | ab: Whoever worked on E7, they have done a really good job |
| 13:02.19 | auenf | E7 was rumored to be meego-N9 for a while |
| 13:02.19 | auenf | ? |
| 13:02.24 | RST38h | no. |
| 13:02.51 | ab | RST38h, haven't played with e7 myself |
| 13:03.37 | RST38h | ab: They have done a near perfect job on the hw (except maybe the plastic ends), and did the best they could to make Symbian look decent |
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| 13:05.44 | auenf | http://techepisode.com/nokia-n9-%E2%80%93-meego-platform-the-most-powerful-nseries-ever/ |
| 13:06.05 | auenf | i remember, some idiots claimed that prototype was meego |
| 13:06.32 | GAN900 | The N9 proto looks a lot like the E7 |
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| 13:06.58 | GAN900 | No worries, though, because we wont ever see an N9. |
| 13:07.01 | auenf | that prototype clearly has symbian tho :) |
| 13:07.15 | sandst1 | that prototype clearly is an e7 |
| 13:08.01 | GAN900 | auenf, speeking of the N9 one, not the one in whatever page you've linked |
| 13:08.12 | nid0 | well that set of prototype photos is clearly of 2 different phones |
| 13:08.13 | auenf | GAN900, correct |
| 13:08.29 | auenf | http://www.priceindia.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Nokia-N9-price.gif |
| 13:08.35 | auenf | thats the proper n9 proto |
| 13:09.06 | RST38h | Either I am a complete idiot, or email has been badly broken in E7 |
| 13:09.28 | nid0 | how so? |
| 13:09.30 | RST38h | No matter what account I try to create there, it brings me to Exchange client settings and then goes nowhere. |
| 13:09.41 | RST38h | It definitely wants me to do SOMETHING, but WHAT? :) |
| 13:09.46 | auenf | RST38h, did you accept agreement thing? |
| 13:09.57 | auenf | iirc, that puts you into 'nokia mail' mode |
| 13:10.08 | auenf | if you dont accept it, you get normal mail client |
| 13:10.14 | nid0 | also one word: profimail |
| 13:10.20 | RST38h | auenf: OMFG |
| 13:10.21 | auenf | http://email.nokia.com |
| 13:10.43 | auenf | 'nokia messaging' is the term i was looking for |
| 13:11.13 | *** join/#maemo ketas (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee) |
| 13:11.18 | RST38h | How do I hmmm unaccept? |
| 13:11.59 | auenf | http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/12625_Nokia_E7_part_4-Communications.php#3 |
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| 13:12.53 | Venemo | E7 would have been better with a higher res screen and MeeGo or Maemo. the way it is, N900 is superior to it |
| 13:13.44 | visz | agreed |
| 13:13.51 | auenf | hmm, where did i read that info about accepting the agreement... |
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| 13:18.23 | auenf | RST38h, i think you should be able to add a new email account that doesnt use nokia messaging |
| 13:18.30 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 13:18.48 | RST38h | auenf: Cannot,dunno why |
| 13:18.54 | auenf | http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Eseries-and-Communicators/REALLY-ANNOYING-Nokia-Messaging-for-Nokia-E72/m-p/642548 |
| 13:19.22 | auenf | hmm, thats e72 |
| 13:21.48 | RST38h | auenf: thanks! does not seem to be the same as my problem,but some good pointers anyway |
| 13:23.42 | RST38h | Aha, it looks like it only offers Exchange but not POP/IMAP or even Ovi |
| 13:25.41 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-yjpypezcpzugejfr) |
| 13:26.21 | RST38h | Another interesting detail: due to E7's camera not being capable of macro, barcode scanner app does not work=) |
| 13:26.37 | auenf | limitations of a business phone |
| 13:27.06 | RST38h | N8 has got the same problem,I guess |
| 13:27.07 | auenf | messaging and email are separate apps? |
| 13:27.13 | lcuk | business men do not use barcodes? |
| 13:27.17 | RST38h | I think it is also a fixed distance camera |
| 13:27.25 | RST38h | auenf: yes |
| 13:27.33 | RST38h | It is no Maemo or Meego =( |
| 13:27.48 | auenf | if you go into settings of messaging, is there email? |
| 13:28.00 | RST38h | Still a very good product though: I would prefer E7 to iPhone any time of the day |
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| 13:28.08 | RST38h | auenf: yes |
| 13:28.23 | RST38h | Wait, NO. |
| 13:28.26 | auenf | "With the N8 this confusion is removed as there is no longer any email functionality in the Messaging application." |
| 13:28.30 | lardman | no barcodes!? Rubbish! |
| 13:28.47 | RST38h | lardman: it can't focus on smallish ones, bigger ones should be ok I guess |
| 13:29.24 | auenf | "While POP and IMAP support is available, it is well hidden (if you really must use plain IMAP or POP, the easiest way to access it is to enter an incorrect password when setting up an email account - extra dialogs then appear to clarify what's wrong)." |
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| 13:30.17 | RST38h | auenf: Jesus wept... |
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| 13:31.08 | auenf | pfft, this review is claiming nokia messaging is the most battery friendly push email |
| 13:31.25 | auenf | imap idle was awesome on my n82's battery |
| 13:31.25 | MohammadAG | N8 can do macro, but not in video |
| 13:31.33 | MohammadAG | it's a software limitation I guess |
| 13:32.24 | auenf | "no auto-focus camera - the E7 has a much smaller, simpler EDoF unit" |
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| 13:34.41 | auenf | http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/12576_Nokia_E7_part_2-Camera_and_mul.php |
| 13:34.52 | auenf | beetagg qr reader works with E7 aparently |
| 13:35.05 | RST38h | auenf: no matter what I do, no imap/pop :) |
| 13:35.13 | RST38h | not even web based gmail, only exchange |
| 13:35.36 | lardman | heads off, sun is shining, catch you all later |
| 13:36.03 | auenf | weird |
| 13:36.45 | auenf | sun is shining? |
| 13:36.51 | auenf | its like 0:30 |
| 13:36.59 | RST38h | shining here, indeed |
| 13:39.18 | RST38h | MS Wants Laws To Block Products Made By Software Pirates |
| 13:41.59 | kwtm | Conclusion: lardman lives at the north pole. (Last week I would have said south pole.) |
| 13:42.52 | Corsac | auenf: that's just because you live in the wrong part of the world |
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| 13:44.02 | auenf | its saturday, how is it the wrong part of the world? |
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| 13:44.18 | RST38h | auenf: wrong side of the globe indeed |
| 13:44.32 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@2.95.9.189) |
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| 13:53.28 | chem|st | RST38h: that would mean 30% of the top android apps get blocked |
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| 13:54.29 | chem|st | and i guess some people would start to dismantle µsoft products like never before |
| 13:57.54 | ZogG | Nokia Ovi Suite 3.1 Beta has now been published at Nokia Beta Labs. |
| 13:57.55 | ZogG | WP7 support?) |
| 14:01.31 | Sc0rpius | well my N900 keyboard is a mess dunno what to do |
| 14:01.35 | Sc0rpius | 3 keys peeled totally |
| 14:01.39 | Sc0rpius | :( |
| 14:02.43 | X-Fade | Sc0rpius: Replace keymat? |
| 14:02.52 | Sc0rpius | I was thinking about that |
| 14:03.06 | X-Fade | Sc0rpius: it is a 5 minute job. |
| 14:03.15 | Sc0rpius | did you do it? |
| 14:03.18 | X-Fade | Sc0rpius: Just 2 torx screws. |
| 14:03.29 | X-Fade | Sc0rpius: Sure, changed german to us keymat :) |
| 14:03.35 | Sc0rpius | but you can't find an original Nokia N900 replacement keyboard |
| 14:03.46 | Sc0rpius | but maybe non original replacements are better since this keyboard is CRAP |
| 14:04.20 | X-Fade | Sc0rpius: http://cgi.ebay.ie/BLACK-KEYPAD-KEYMAT-KEYBOARD-NOKIA-N900-/170526400626 |
| 14:04.27 | Sc0rpius | clicks |
| 14:04.42 | X-Fade | About 5 euro. |
| 14:05.16 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 14:06.13 | X-Fade | Sc0rpius: And if you want to build your own N900: http://www.thenokiaparts.com/eng/tuotteet/N900-spare-parts |
| 14:06.22 | Sc0rpius | my own N900? heh |
| 14:06.31 | *** join/#maemo McMAGIC-- (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--) |
| 14:07.07 | Sc0rpius | and everything is out of stock already |
| 14:07.13 | X-Fade | Indeed. |
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| 14:09.06 | X-Fade | RST38h: osc |
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| 14:10.16 | Sc0rpius | does the keypad come with tools to open the phone? |
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| 14:11.11 | chem|st | Sc0rpius: nope |
| 14:11.24 | Sc0rpius | does it have weird screws or something standard? |
| 14:11.35 | chem|st | even domesheets have to be ordered separately |
| 14:11.42 | chem|st | std torx |
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| 14:12.00 | Sc0rpius | cool |
| 14:12.31 | chem|st | --> 15:03 < X-Fade> Sc0rpius: Just 2 torx screws. |
| 14:13.11 | chem|st | ZogG: what they changed is they do not leave 450MB of install data on your C: drive anymore |
| 14:13.43 | Sc0rpius | I see like 5 screws |
| 14:13.49 | Sc0rpius | but it's ok |
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| 14:14.09 | jeremiah | Is there a maemo councile thing today? |
| 14:14.20 | jeremiah | on IRC? |
| 14:14.57 | jeremiah | Nope. It is tomorrow. |
| 14:15.06 | jeremiah | But thanks for all the fish! |
| 14:15.14 | auenf | state elections here today (sat) |
| 14:15.35 | chem|st | Sc0rpius: you only need to remove the two bottom torx |
| 14:16.05 | chem|st | the other four are philips-0 and do mount the sliderplate |
| 14:17.53 | Sc0rpius | where are those torx again? 'cos all I see are phillips screws |
| 14:18.04 | Sc0rpius | I see them |
| 14:18.23 | Sc0rpius | I don't think I have a torx tool |
| 14:18.48 | chem|st | ZogG: and it crashes on me when trying to open anything from the menus... |
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| 14:19.28 | chem|st | Sc0rpius: 2€ at most hardwarestores |
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| 15:00.29 | Sazpaimon__ | So i managed to build gnahs with openGL ES support |
| 15:00.44 | Sazpaimon__ | no idea if it works yet, need to upload the debs to my phone |
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| 15:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: Sc0rpius: (And if you want to build your own N900:) http://www.ownta.com/original-nokia-n81-n900-cell-phone-speaker.html http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/ http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-faceplate-cover-gold-p-3673.html |
| 15:07.02 | Sc0rpius | aren't those in China? |
| 15:07.08 | Sc0rpius | no way I'm buying from China. |
| 15:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | duh, why? |
| 15:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | saremi is in Germany |
| 15:07.44 | Sazpaimon__ | most of my replacement nokia parts come from china |
| 15:07.45 | DocScrutinizer | you're free to avoid Germany as well ;-P |
| 15:07.56 | Sazpaimon__ | for example, I bought a replacement case for my E71 |
| 15:07.59 | Sazpaimon__ | and it came without a front camera |
| 15:08.05 | Sazpaimon__ | only the chinese E71 lacks the camera |
| 15:08.33 | Sazpaimon__ | so i put it all together, then later try to use nimbuzz to video call |
| 15:09.01 | Sazpaimon__ | and im wondering why the front camera isnt displaying anything. Oh hey look there's no hole for the front camera |
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| 15:09.22 | DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: btw T6 torx is pretty standard tool nowadays, you can find in any better tool shop, even in supermarket occasionally |
| 15:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon__: now that's lame |
| 15:10.24 | Sazpaimon__ | I know, right |
| 15:10.36 | DocScrutinizer | (you not noticing it - that's what I meant) |
| 15:10.45 | Sazpaimon__ | I know, right |
| 15:12.39 | Sc0rpius | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BLACK-KEYPAD-KEYMAT-KEYBOARD-NOKIA-N900-/170526400626?pt=UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL&hash=item27b42a6072 |
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| 15:13.04 | Sc0rpius | that definitely looks decent, but I haven't used my ebay account since 2007 and I can't remember password or secret question or whatever |
| 15:13.10 | Sc0rpius | I guess I can register again with another email |
| 15:13.56 | Sc0rpius | Excludes: Africa, United States, Germany |
| 15:13.59 | Sc0rpius | Oh fucker |
| 15:14.11 | Sc0rpius | they don't send to the US! |
| 15:16.33 | Sazpaimon__ | is there a way I can have the N900 connect via USB connection to a PC |
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| 15:16.39 | Sazpaimon__ | (not the other way around) |
| 15:16.52 | Sazpaimon__ | Connect to the internet, I should say |
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| 15:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | so how tall is the mushroom cloud over Fucku today? |
| 15:22.53 | RST38h | "Tech-centric human rights group Access has published a handy primer for those looking to participate in a Middle Eastern or North African revolution" |
| 15:23.06 | RST38h | Doc: reported to be 60-70% of Chernobyl's exhaust |
| 15:23.28 | Sazpaimon__ | im not sure why i built gnash in such a way that it requires mysql-common, but okay |
| 15:23.52 | Sazpaimon__ | if this works I'll leave the rest up to people that know what they're doing in regards to debian packages |
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| 15:32.25 | DocScrutinizer | >>Radioactive fission products were detected in the pool at the work area. Their concentration was about ***3.9 million Bq/cc***, _ten_thousand_ times higher than the _reactor_water_ in normal operation. NISA indicated the possible damage of the Reactor Pressure Vessel of Unit 3. With these three workers, so far seventeen workers have been exposed to more than 100 mSv of radiation. |
| 15:32.43 | RST38h | How interesting, I have just been going to quote this to you :) |
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| 15:35.42 | DocScrutinizer | >>Main Control Room Habitability & Operability:: [block5,6] Not damaged (estimate) --- WTF, didn't they find anybody willing to walk over and take a glance to make sure? |
| 15:36.02 | RST38h | those are supposedly safe blocks, right? |
| 15:36.28 | DocScrutinizer | not anymore, seems problems with #5 starting to get severe |
| 15:37.30 | DocScrutinizer | I mean, if those blocks were "safe", then why to cut holes to the roofs "to avoid hydrogen explosion"? |
| 15:37.57 | Sazpaimon__ | damn, gnash is segfaulting |
| 15:39.24 | DocScrutinizer | >> 16:14 Residual Heat Removal pump of Unit 5, which had failed, was replaced and then restarted. |
| 15:40.13 | crashanddie | [On the radio, about a car crash] "Due to an exploding tyre, an SUV crashed on the highway and rolled over a few times. The female passenger was ejected from the car and landed in the middle of a high traffic triple-carriage way. The drive [her husband] got out of the car, grabbed a hi-vis vest and ran up to her, only to have a passing truck catch his hi-vis vest. Both are safe and sound" |
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| 15:42.22 | crashanddie | Survive exploding tyre, check. Survive landing in the middle of a highway, check. Survive car tumbling around, check. Survive running through a traffic laden highway, check. Survive being dragged a few dozen meters by a truck at speed, check. Be sure to buy lottery tickets, n/a. |
| 15:43.24 | Azog | the events are independent, no need for lottery tickets |
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| 15:46.41 | Sazpaimon__ | i guess I'll try to see if the version i built with debugging symbols helps |
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| 15:47.11 | Sazpaimon__ | the thing is, gnash tells me that opengles 2 is supported and I can use vaapi for hardware accelleration, so that's working |
| 15:47.28 | Sazpaimon__ | when I actually go to play the file, though, it segfaults |
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| 15:49.09 | DocScrutinizer | incredible, tepco - after 2 weeks of accident management - managed to have a plan to use clean water instead of sea water for injection into the reactor core pressure vessel (NB there's no way out of the PV for all the water they're injecting, other than as steam venting to environment. So the amount of water needed can't be that high to make it impossible to send 5 water transporters for that) |
| 15:49.43 | Sazpaimon__ | is there a way i can launch hildon on scratchbox on FREMANTLE_ARMEL |
| 15:49.47 | Sazpaimon__ | ive only been able to do it on x86 |
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| 16:05.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | is there an editor app for the system menu items shown? |
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| 16:07.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | I honestly don't need nor want that green point 'Availability', and I'd prefer simple brightness applet to take upper left position |
| 16:07.54 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, hildon-status-menu or systemui? |
| 16:08.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | the menu you get when clicking on clock |
| 16:09.13 | MohammadAG | #4 and #6 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66251 |
| 16:09.19 | MohammadAG | it's not an app, but details how to move them |
| 16:09.33 | MohammadAG | as for removing them, /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu/ |
| 16:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | thnx |
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| 17:39.58 | Sazpaimon__ | okay, where do I get the header files for opengl es 1.x on x86 scratchbox |
| 17:40.09 | Sazpaimon__ | there's no package for GLES1, only 2 |
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| 18:43.25 | pupnik | "We LIKE war! We're a war-like people!" http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ylyl-nkftegtay5fyfkzpq.gif |
| 18:44.58 | OkropNick | where n900 stores sms autocomplete hints? |
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| 18:51.10 | Proteous | OkropNick: ~/.osso/.used.dictionary and ~/.osso/.personal.dictionary |
| 18:51.56 | OkropNick | Proteous: thanks :) |
| 18:53.37 | Proteous | np |
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| 19:25.38 | Dattebayo | hey guys can anyone help me with n900? |
| 19:26.46 | E0x | what is the problem ? |
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| 19:28.00 | Dattebayo | well i donno how to install the program on 32GB ram |
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| 19:33.43 | GAN900 | Dattebayo, be more specific? |
| 19:34.12 | GAN900 | If you're talking about when installing software, most of it does so automatically. |
| 19:35.11 | Dattebayo | well it was assasing creed games |
| 19:35.24 | GAN900 | webOS? |
| 19:35.36 | Dattebayo | at themiddle of the installation it says no more ram |
| 19:35.49 | Dattebayo | on n900 cell phone |
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| 19:39.07 | BCMM | Dattebayo: i don't entirely understand, but adding some swap might help you |
| 19:39.23 | Dattebayo | its on the cell phone |
| 19:39.25 | BCMM | (assuming the problem is just with the install, not with actually running the game) |
| 19:39.30 | Dattebayo | how can i add swap |
| 19:39.40 | BCMM | easiest would be a swapfile |
| 19:40.02 | Dattebayo | well it gives error there is not much ram |
| 19:41.12 | BCMM | Dattebayo: what does? |
| 19:41.29 | Dattebayo | it middle of the installation |
| 19:42.24 | BCMM | Dattebayo: installing what, and installing it how? |
| 19:42.53 | Dattebayo | installig assasin creed game by click on it |
| 19:43.53 | BCMM | by clicking on what? |
| 19:44.12 | Dattebayo | nevermind |
| 19:44.15 | FIQ | Are you talking about ram, or memory? |
| 19:44.26 | E0x | talking about ram when i have a lot of day of uptime in my phone i get laggy and i need restart it , exist a way of flush the memory for not need reboot the device ? |
| 19:44.28 | BCMM | Dattebayo: are you using preenv? |
| 19:44.31 | FIQ | because you told us you had 32GB ram |
| 19:44.48 | BCMM | Dattebayo: the exact text of the error would be very useful |
| 19:44.51 | FIQ | and that doesn't make sense, so maybe you just mix things up |
| 19:45.01 | Dattebayo | maybe |
| 19:45.26 | Dattebayo | well i check it tomorrw and keep u guys on verdict ok? |
| 19:45.27 | FIQ | (memory, as in, storage memory) |
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| 19:46.04 | Dattebayo | @FIQ yes i got 32GB ram as storage |
| 19:46.13 | FIQ | uh |
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| 19:46.44 | FIQ | I suppose you don't know what ram is |
| 19:46.47 | E0x | 32GB of internal memory of the N900 is not ram memory |
| 19:46.50 | E0x | afaik |
| 19:46.55 | kerio92 | haha 32gb of ram |
| 19:46.57 | kerio92 | i wish |
| 19:47.07 | FIQ | indeed :P |
| 19:47.13 | FIQ | would be awesome |
| 19:47.19 | GAN900 | E0x, killall modest, killall browserd, killall hildon-desktop |
| 19:47.21 | E0x | indeed |
| 19:47.26 | E0x | GAN900: thx |
| 19:47.28 | E0x | let me try it |
| 19:47.44 | E0x | GAN900: have autorestart ? |
| 19:47.53 | GAN900 | BCMM, swap is 768MB by default |
| 19:47.53 | E0x | i mean for modest |
| 19:47.54 | E0x | a least |
| 19:48.00 | GAN900 | E0x, yes |
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| 19:50.45 | E0x | hmm something phone app |
| 19:50.56 | E0x | get locked in lanscape mode |
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| 20:19.34 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@188.123.239.206) |
| 20:19.47 | MohammadAG | E0x, killall hildon-desktop messes up rotation |
| 20:22.24 | E0x | MohammadAG: yes , i saw that |
| 20:22.31 | E0x | i close the phone app firts |
| 20:22.31 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@62-47-161-36.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:22.35 | E0x | and again killall |
| 20:23.03 | MohammadAG | I open the phone app, it rotates, then I killall |
| 20:23.17 | E0x | MohammadAG: but ! the lockedin in the phone appa happen to me time to time without the killall thing of hildon-desktop |
| 20:23.20 | E0x | in normal use |
| 20:24.14 | E0x | like : phone locked and secured ( code ) then call income , the app start in portaid mode then switch to landscape |
| 20:24.30 | MohammadAG | oh, no idea |
| 20:24.56 | E0x | and all this having portrait mode ( only ) setting |
| 20:25.47 | E0x | MohammadAG: exist plan in the CSSU team for phone app replace ? |
| 20:26.32 | E0x | is not this app using open backend program ? or is all closed ? |
| 20:26.44 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48EC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:26.52 | *** join/#maemo NGNUton-BC (~gnuton@84-231-101-4.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 20:27.22 | MohammadAG | replace? no |
| 20:27.36 | MohammadAG | you can never clone that thing without missing some functionality |
| 20:27.57 | E0x | ok |
| 20:28.02 | MohammadAG | we need a proper team, like it started out for the foss mediaplayer (Sadly, I'm the only one working on it now) |
| 20:28.48 | E0x | what skill are needed for help in a least minimal way in that ? |
| 20:32.01 | MohammadAG | DBus, C, C++, and Qt |
| 20:32.11 | MohammadAG | s/C/GLib |
| 20:33.00 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 20:34.33 | E0x | ok |
| 20:35.19 | *** join/#maemo zgoldberg (~zgoldberg@force.stwing.upenn.edu) |
| 20:37.10 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.44) |
| 20:39.47 | *** join/#maemo arcol (~lama@dsl5402AF17.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:40.30 | Sazpaimon__ | why doesn't maemo provide EGL/eglext.h? |
| 20:46.55 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 20:47.03 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 20:49.11 | javispedro | the latest diablo opera is _fantastic_ |
| 20:49.25 | javispedro | faster, smaller binary, nicer UI, they even made a gesture for go to top/bottom of page |
| 20:49.34 | javispedro | and reflow!! did I mention it has reflow?? |
| 20:53.38 | MohammadAG | no, you didn't :) |
| 20:53.53 | javispedro | and it even reflows wikipedia's default skin correctly! |
| 20:53.57 | GAN900 | javispedro, why do you want me to charge one of my N800s? |
| 20:53.58 | javispedro | falls in love |
| 20:54.24 | MohammadAG | worse, he makes me want an N810 |
| 20:54.35 | MohammadAG | isn't it the same as the N900 version? |
| 20:54.38 | javispedro | it's friggin wonderful, try zooming in and out on a wikipedia article. |
| 20:54.52 | javispedro | MohammadAG: i'd bet so, but happened to try it first on the n8x0 =) |
| 20:55.43 | mikhas | reflow? cool |
| 20:58.28 | javispedro | I wish they'd put the hardware zoom buttons to use instead of the on-screen ones. |
| 20:59.31 | MohammadAG | javispedro, so it's better than microB? :) |
| 21:00.25 | javispedro | on the n8x0 it already mostly was due to old microb's speed. |
| 21:00.42 | javispedro | haven't tried it on n900 yet. |
| 21:04.37 | javispedro | hey, I see they now link with Gtk+ |
| 21:05.22 | MohammadAG | probably for hildon? |
| 21:06.17 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 21:06.50 | javispedro | heehee |
| 21:06.50 | javispedro | when I tap on the search bar |
| 21:06.50 | javispedro | a hildonentry appears over it =) |
| 21:07.02 | javispedro | so that I can use the him keyboard |
| 21:07.08 | javispedro | tricky, but works |
| 21:07.56 | MohammadAG | oh, the N8x0 can't do portrait mode can it? |
| 21:08.11 | javispedro | not with the stock kernel |
| 21:08.42 | MohammadAG | err, it needs a patched kernel? |
| 21:08.49 | javispedro | and xorg iirc |
| 21:09.02 | MohammadAG | isn't rotation just a resolution change and a software window resize |
| 21:09.14 | javispedro | nah if you want to do it on hw |
| 21:09.34 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e212-246-68-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:11.19 | javispedro | it's surprising someone still cares for the n8x0 |
| 21:11.28 | javispedro | I even see a "Use GPS for geolocation" option here. |
| 21:11.52 | javispedro | hats off for those opera guys. |
| 21:12.40 | jacekowski | what about new opera for n900? |
| 21:13.29 | ponyofdeath | hi, anyone know where Mail for exchange saves its stuff i need to remove some emails because it was running out of space. or if i can move the storage to another location |
| 21:14.50 | jacekowski | somewhere in ~/ |
| 21:15.05 | jacekowski | very likely that it will be .modest |
| 21:19.30 | *** join/#maemo trip0 (~tripzero@nat/intel/session) |
| 21:21.12 | ponyofdeath | jacekowski: thx how can is it safe to prune |
| 21:21.13 | jacekowski | ponyofdeath: you can change mfe settings to keep less history |
| 21:21.14 | jacekowski | and it should delete it automatically |
| 21:21.14 | jacekowski | otherwise whatever you delete it will just redownload |
| 21:21.14 | javispedro | still has the old opera on his n900, probably they haven't got to update it yet. |
| 21:21.16 | *** join/#maemo auenfx4 (David@171.72.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 21:21.16 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 21:21.16 | jacekowski | javispedro: is it beta6? |
| 21:21.16 | *** join/#maemo rtyler_ (~tyler@63-246-20-94.contegix.com) |
| 21:21.16 | jacekowski | that you're talking about |
| 21:21.16 | jacekowski | or what? |
| 21:21.16 | *** join/#maemo xxtjaxx_ (~andreas@dl360.ein-elch.de) |
| 21:21.16 | jacekowski | http://deb.opera.com/maemo/pool/non-free/o/opera-mobile/ |
| 21:21.16 | jacekowski | there are only packages from 22 jul |
| 21:21.17 | javispedro | it's v 11.0, not 10.n |
| 21:21.17 | jacekowski | where? |
| 21:21.17 | jacekowski | nothing in repository |
| 21:21.17 | ponyofdeath | jacekowski: ok the 1day 3day .. setting? |
| 21:21.17 | *** join/#maemo trip0 (~tripzero@nat/intel/x-xwycajmhwhbonxsc) |
| 21:21.17 | javispedro | oh |
| 21:21.18 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-174-111-058-051.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 21:21.18 | javispedro | seemingly they uploaded it directly to -testing |
| 21:21.19 | javispedro | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/non-free/opera-mobile_11.0beta1-7~fremantle0_armel.deb |
| 21:21.20 | jacekowski | ponyofdeath: yes |
| 21:22.27 | ponyofdeath | jacekowski: thanks so much |
| 21:23.22 | arcol | Im curious if there are any effort to RE the closed part of n900, and slowly replace each software or driver in maemo distribution? If so, can somebody point me to the right source tree (git, svn, etc) |
| 21:23.41 | jacekowski | arcol: there are some efforts but not a lot |
| 21:23.57 | jacekowski | arcol: there is way too much of that |
| 21:23.59 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~etrunko@201.53.199.247) |
| 21:25.08 | jacekowski | it takes couple months to reverse engineer 1MB piece of code if you want to do it properly with clean room technique |
| 21:25.13 | arcol | it seems to me, that everyone waited for the miracle from nokia (ie. meego) |
| 21:25.36 | *** join/#maemo pigeon (~pigeon@eth5284.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net) |
| 21:25.41 | jacekowski | meego is mostly open |
| 21:25.44 | jacekowski | and can run on n900 |
| 21:26.01 | jacekowski | it's just a fact that there isn't a lot of stuff that can run on it |
| 21:26.15 | arcol | jacekowski: well, Im interested mostly in source code, so if there are any effort RE, the camera app for example. I would greatly appreciate a link for the git tree |
| 21:26.35 | jacekowski | arcol: nobody cares about that |
| 21:26.43 | jacekowski | arcol: there are better alternatives |
| 21:26.48 | jacekowski | bless n900 or fcamera |
| 21:26.50 | javispedro | someone does care |
| 21:26.52 | javispedro | ( http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70870 ) |
| 21:27.30 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-71-188.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:28.50 | javispedro | on an unrelated topic, the new nokia font: http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/03/25/nokia-unveils-new-font-and-branding/?sf1235962=1 |
| 21:28.59 | javispedro | resembles Segoe. Serves them well.... |
| 21:29.09 | jaska | hah |
| 21:33.06 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.244.231.245) |
| 21:38.27 | *** join/#maemo RangerBob (~Brian@pool-71-171-98-198.clppva.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 21:59.27 | *** join/#maemo hawaii_ (~hawaii@24.138.121.254) |
| 21:59.37 | hawaii_ | I need to debug hildon-desktop ON device. |
| 22:00.03 | hawaii_ | Apart from timing a process kill and spawning a separate one at an rxvt - how else can I do it? |
| 22:03.25 | hawaii_ | C'mon. There are 400 of you punks. Somebody tell me. |
| 22:03.35 | SpeedEvil | gdb? |
| 22:03.50 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p549FFC4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:06.47 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.120.37.70) |
| 22:08.30 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
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| 22:11.28 | messerting | Sorry, but I haven't paid attention the last several weeks: Where do I find up to date info about the future of Maemo/Meego after the Nokia/Microsoft (devastating) news? |
| 22:11.45 | hawaii_ | Heh. |
| 22:12.21 | SpeedEvil | Nokia left meego - mostly |
| 22:12.40 | SpeedEvil | So intel are now going it alone, and have made vastr changes to meego, ripping out mostr of the nokia stuff. |
| 22:12.41 | messerting | So, will Intel come to the rescue...? |
| 22:12.52 | messerting | ok |
| 22:12.59 | SpeedEvil | There is a meego product upcoming from nokia this year, it's a phone, and little more is known about it. |
| 22:13.17 | messerting | Yeah, not much advertised |
| 22:13.20 | SpeedEvil | Intel will not be releasing for rthe n900 if that's what you mean. |
| 22:14.16 | messerting | Well, I've got a N900, but never expected Meego to run on it (for real) |
| 22:14.30 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~cacao@cev75-4-82-247-118-210.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:14.30 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~cacao@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 22:14.38 | messerting | But it would be nice to know if the platform will survive |
| 22:15.27 | SpeedEvil | What platform? |
| 22:15.31 | hawaii_ | I need printed output, SpeedEvil. gdb won't really provide the easy info after attaching. |
| 22:15.33 | messerting | I really (really really) don't want to have to choose from iPhone/Apple WinPhone/Microsoft |
| 22:15.52 | SpeedEvil | If you mean maemo - there is no future plans for more maemo phones. |
| 22:16.06 | SpeedEvil | meego - there is one plan for a meego-related phone fromnokia this year. |
| 22:16.06 | messerting | "platform" is maybe the wrong word. I mean a phone running Linux/Qt with some nice apps |
| 22:16.20 | *** join/#maemo arcol (~lama@dsl5402AF17.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 22:16.27 | SpeedEvil | Then it's unclear what will happen. |
| 22:16.36 | hawaii_ | So move to WebOS. |
| 22:16.36 | messerting | ok. sad. |
| 22:18.06 | messerting | WebOS: "a proprietary mobile operating system running on the Linux kernel". ok... |
| 22:18.46 | SpeedEvil | IMO - it's a sufficiently fas-moving space that trying to look ahead more than 6 months is difficult. |
| 22:18.55 | SpeedEvil | And pointless. |
| 22:19.37 | hawaii_ | messerting - It sure is better than your other options; Android, iOS, Blackberry or WP7. |
| 22:19.52 | hawaii_ | WebOS is the closest thing you'll find to Maemo/MeeGo. |
| 22:20.02 | messerting | hawaii_: true |
| 22:20.13 | SpeedEvil | Some people are still selling openmoko freerunners. |
| 22:20.18 | hawaii_ | LOL |
| 22:20.22 | SpeedEvil | Which is probably the closest. |
| 22:20.29 | SpeedEvil | But is not exactly new hardware. |
| 22:20.33 | hawaii_ | Well, Maemo itself, would be the closest. |
| 22:20.52 | hawaii_ | OpenMoko is hardly flourishing...even when compared to Maemo 5. |
| 22:20.55 | messerting | Haha, I've got one (Freerunner) |
| 22:21.02 | SpeedEvil | messerting: yeah. |
| 22:21.04 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 22:21.22 | SpeedEvil | messerting: Have you tried more recent OS on it? Things have improved a fair bit since launch. |
| 22:21.26 | SpeedEvil | SHR/... |
| 22:21.47 | messerting | I installed latest Qt-based a couple of month ago |
| 22:21.54 | messerting | Still doesn't work as a phone |
| 22:22.48 | messerting | Tried SHR a year ago or so. |
| 22:23.03 | messerting | It was a very promising project - that failed, unfortunately |
| 22:23.21 | messerting | Sad to see Maemo/Meego fail too... |
| 22:24.12 | wmarone_ | meego's not done yet |
| 22:25.50 | messerting | For what it's worth - I am really impressed and really satisfied with my n900/maemo. Suits my needs indeed. |
| 22:29.53 | *** join/#maemo madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu) |
| 22:32.54 | SpeedEvil | I'm depressed in many ways that much effort is going into rooting, and using rooted phones. |
| 22:33.17 | wmarone_ | sure |
| 22:33.30 | hawaii_ | Depressed? |
| 22:33.36 | SpeedEvil | When that's a fundamentally unsustainable activity that goes away if the developers employ someone that's passed encryption101 |
| 22:33.40 | GAN900 | SpeedEvil, there's why I think Google is truly evil. |
| 22:33.52 | wmarone_ | people just accept it, and they'll yell at you if you try to argue that you shouldn't have to |
| 22:33.57 | SpeedEvil | hawaii_: Because it's wasted effort, that is detracting from open phones. |
| 22:34.16 | hawaii_ | Uh |
| 22:34.27 | GAN900 | Think of all of the talented people wasting their energy. |
| 22:34.29 | wmarone_ | but the carriers too hate open phones |
| 22:34.47 | SpeedEvil | wmarone_: That somewhat varies in other countries. |
| 22:34.48 | wmarone_ | I'd wager that most hardware OEMs do too |
| 22:34.49 | Proteous | even if you have passed encryption101 it's still a very hard problem |
| 22:35.01 | hawaii_ | I fail to see how it's a wasted effort. |
| 22:35.06 | hawaii_ | Google isn't providing suid access. People want it. |
| 22:35.07 | SpeedEvil | Proteous: It is getting much less hard all the time. |
| 22:35.12 | Proteous | is it? |
| 22:35.17 | SpeedEvil | hawaii_: It's wasted as it is per-phone-model. |
| 22:35.26 | wmarone_ | SpeedEvil: sure, but as I noted, vendors will act that way too. see the milestone, which is crippled due to motorola |
| 22:35.38 | hawaii_ | Not really. It's per OEM+Android CO build |
| 22:35.44 | SpeedEvil | Proteous: yes - as the CPUs support encryption better. And the ROM and RAM are integrated. |
| 22:36.01 | hawaii_ | If HTC vanilla flashes the same build across 7 devices - they will all have the same vuln. |
| 22:36.43 | SpeedEvil | Proteous: To do it 'right' - all you need is a signed boot ROM in the SOC (this exists), that loads a signed bootloader with no exploitable bugs, that loads a signed kernel. |
| 22:36.47 | GAN900 | hawaii_, view it as effort that's not going into making MeeGo awsome. |
| 22:37.02 | hawaii_ | SpeedEvil, "no exploitable bugs". |
| 22:37.03 | Proteous | the devil is in the implementation |
| 22:37.11 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@221.28.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 22:37.12 | Proteous | it's not a tech problem, it's a programing securly problem |
| 22:37.14 | SpeedEvil | This is not trivial. But many of the 'roots' reported are _REALLY_REALLY_REALLY_FUCKING_BASIC_ |
| 22:37.21 | Proteous | yes |
| 22:37.46 | SpeedEvil | As in - you don't make these sort of mistakes if you've actually studied the subject, rather than read the docs of a few crypto libraries and thought you understood it. |
| 22:37.51 | Proteous | making a device that is unrootable for consumer applications just isn't really worth spending the money on |
| 22:38.04 | SpeedEvil | It's not actually any harder. |
| 22:38.09 | hawaii_ | WTF |
| 22:38.20 | Proteous | sure, it can made doing a lot of other stuff harder |
| 22:38.22 | hawaii_ | So what you're essentially saying is - "make your code secure". |
| 22:38.30 | hawaii_ | That could be said for just about ANY computing issue. |
| 22:38.31 | Proteous | legetimate stuff that the phone maker will want to do |
| 22:38.40 | SpeedEvil | It's akin to making a calculator program that does not bomb when you divide by zero. |
| 22:39.06 | *** join/#maemo zgoldberg (~zgoldberg@force.stwing.upenn.edu) |
| 22:39.08 | SpeedEvil | Proteous: nothing the phone provider wants to do is made harder - they have the root key, signing is trivial. |
| 22:39.16 | hawaii_ | Programmers don't write inherently secure code. |
| 22:39.20 | hawaii_ | They. Do. not. |
| 22:39.34 | SpeedEvil | You do not need inherently secure code. |
| 22:39.47 | SpeedEvil | Most of the exploits have been around trivial and glaring design bugs. |
| 22:39.56 | SpeedEvil | Not 'clever' exploits. |
| 22:40.03 | hawaii_ | Yes... |
| 22:40.13 | hawaii_ | So it has nothing to do with what you said though |
| 22:40.27 | Proteous | hawaii that's because every programer of every device is a moron! |
| 22:40.37 | hawaii_ | You eluded to "secure SoC TPMC, chainload signed ROM and boot" |
| 22:40.49 | SpeedEvil | hawaii_: yes. |
| 22:41.01 | hawaii_ | When the holes being exploited are irrelevant of bootloaders at this time. |
| 22:41.13 | hawaii_ | These are userland and priv-esc vulns |
| 22:41.45 | hawaii_ | Only Motorola has felt a puny amount of backlash from "eFuse" |
| 22:41.46 | SpeedEvil | hawaii_: Sure - signed bootloader, and signed kernel limits the exploit surface lots. |
| 22:41.56 | SpeedEvil | And means you can't reflash the kernel. |
| 22:42.00 | hawaii_ | Try telling Apple that. |
| 22:42.10 | SpeedEvil | Properly implemented signed... |
| 22:42.15 | hawaii_ | They've implemented ASLR and have been using signed ROM and bootloaders |
| 22:42.28 | hawaii_ | but their shit is broken wide open continuously. |
| 22:42.53 | trip0 | http://bit.ly/eLTzzL |
| 22:43.38 | hawaii_ | You can't just say "signed bootloader and signed kernel limits" and tada |
| 22:43.49 | SpeedEvil | trip0: This in many ways is not interesting other than a proof of concept. It's going to be very different than the 'meego' device released. |
| 22:44.01 | Proteous | yeah, you need pixxy dust and unicorns then you are set |
| 22:44.03 | SpeedEvil | hawaii_: No, you can't. It assumes a raft of other stuff. |
| 22:44.06 | hawaii_ | I'd love to see that actually implemented properly - it has basically NEVER been done. |
| 22:44.45 | SpeedEvil | hawaii_: For example, a secure kernel, without exploitable priv escalation bugs, user/root seperation, ... |
| 22:44.53 | trip0 | SpeedEvil, i know not of any other meego device ;) |
| 22:44.53 | SpeedEvil | Signed app-code helps lots too. |
| 22:44.57 | hawaii_ | Keep day dreaming. |
| 22:45.03 | hawaii_ | How long has the Linux kernel been around? |
| 22:45.13 | hawaii_ | Still priv-esc in it to THIS day |
| 22:45.25 | hawaii_ | How long has oBSD been auditing shit? |
| 22:45.32 | hawaii_ | Still RCE in daemons to THIS day. |
| 22:45.53 | hawaii_ | You think HTC has talent to throw at protecting their shit? |
| 22:45.59 | Proteous | I wrote a totaly secure program once, I think it went: 10 PRINT HI - 20 GOTO 10 |
| 22:46.03 | SpeedEvil | hawaii_: That's not quite the question. Yes, there are priv-esc bugs. If you can only installed signed apps, from makers who have not intended to put exploits in, then your attacks become more complex. |
| 22:46.18 | hawaii_ | More complex != non-existant. |
| 22:46.27 | Proteous | game consols have been doing the signed apps for ever |
| 22:46.30 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 22:46.30 | Proteous | doesn't help |
| 22:46.43 | hawaii_ | There is a time when you have to decide to stop mitigating against risks |
| 22:47.05 | SpeedEvil | No, there isn't. |
| 22:47.14 | SpeedEvil | There is a time when you start legislating against them. |
| 22:47.18 | SpeedEvil | And making it illegal. |
| 22:47.20 | *** join/#maemo Dragnslcr (~scott@c-24-147-239-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:47.22 | hawaii_ | LOL |
| 22:47.25 | SpeedEvil | waves at the record industry. |
| 22:47.26 | Proteous | illegal to root a phone? |
| 22:47.33 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-71-188.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:47.36 | hawaii_ | You can't be serious. |
| 22:47.41 | Proteous | are you saying that would be a good thing? |
| 22:47.46 | SpeedEvil | Of course not! |
| 22:47.48 | hawaii_ | Ask Sony how that's going for them. |
| 22:47.51 | SpeedEvil | I want open phones. |
| 22:47.59 | wmarone_ | Apple insists that jailbreaking a phone is a violation of the DMCA |
| 22:48.02 | SpeedEvil | The most recent PS3 hack was a case in point. |
| 22:48.07 | messerting | The strategy behind DRM... |
| 22:48.24 | SpeedEvil | This is basically due to shitty broken design, not subtle implementation erros. |
| 22:48.54 | hawaii_ | Er |
| 22:49.04 | hawaii_ | That was the fallout of the INITIAL hack |
| 22:49.13 | hawaii_ | Which was complex beyond human comprehension |
| 22:49.25 | hawaii_ | Hence why it took so long for it to even happen. |
| 22:49.38 | SpeedEvil | I think this trend towards closed hardware you don't own is entirely evil, and would be very grateful if it went away tomorrow. I'm just depressed because using the shiny 'hacked' toys are reducing market and mindshare from any startup that might want to do open. |
| 22:50.04 | hawaii_ | Uh, I'm going to have to disagree with that |
| 22:50.07 | SpeedEvil | The key retrieval was complex - however it was possible only because of a really basic design erro. |
| 22:50.34 | hawaii_ | If anything, closed proprietary systems are forcing people to look at open solutions |
| 22:50.51 | hawaii_ | If everybody is saying "you can't do that, you can't do that" |
| 22:50.58 | *** join/#maemo wijiji (~a@c-76-19-53-23.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 22:51.00 | hawaii_ | There will be one beaconing org that says "YES, YOU CAN DO THAT" |
| 22:51.03 | hawaii_ | and people will flock. |
| 22:51.04 | *** join/#maemo dangergrrl (~ariana@72.183.120.145) |
| 22:51.30 | ruskie | hawaii_, sadly doesn't work |
| 22:51.38 | ruskie | because most people are happy enough with what is provided |
| 22:51.46 | hawaii_ | Agreed |
| 22:51.55 | hawaii_ | but it's also because not every option is saying "no" |
| 22:52.06 | SpeedEvil | Especially if many of the devs are satisfied by working on 'hacked' shiny cheap stuff. |
| 22:52.17 | ruskie | ps3 was safe until they killed the otherOS option |
| 22:52.23 | messerting | SpeedEvil: You've got a point |
| 22:52.25 | ruskie | panicked instead of thinking it over |
| 22:52.32 | messerting | (I've got a pint) |
| 22:52.46 | hawaii_ | I'm not sure if I buy that completely, I agree, yes. |
| 22:53.01 | hawaii_ | But there were people who tried until they were blue in the face |
| 22:53.38 | ruskie | hawaii_, naturally there will always be people that will try that |
| 22:53.49 | *** join/#maemo McMAGIC-- (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--) |
| 22:54.25 | ruskie | the thing is... give those that would actually crack it something else to keep them occupied |
| 22:54.38 | messerting | I'm trying to crack the encryption of my TV provider: "Impossible" |
| 22:54.54 | SpeedEvil | messerting: Actually, many TV encryption solutions are eak, withknown holes. |
| 22:54.58 | SpeedEvil | weak |
| 22:55.03 | RST38h | TV? You watch TV> |
| 22:55.16 | messerting | hehe, yes |
| 22:55.20 | ruskie | I pay for cable... but generally get all the TV shows online through torrents |
| 22:55.22 | RST38h | Why would anyone do that? |
| 22:55.37 | SpeedEvil | ponders the last time he watched broadcast. |
| 22:55.42 | ruskie | atleast I can say some of that money goes back to the makers of the TV shows... |
| 22:55.44 | messerting | Got IPTV, with a Motorola STB, busybox |
| 22:55.52 | ruskie | crawls off to bed... |
| 22:55.55 | SpeedEvil | It's at least 2 years. |
| 22:56.03 | hawaii_ | Not that they deserve your money, in any fashion, ruskie. |
| 22:56.05 | SpeedEvil | BBC iplayer ++ |
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| 22:56.09 | SpeedEvil | get_iplayer.pl ++++ |
| 22:56.30 | SpeedEvil | Which reminds me, I should really work outr why it's not running on the n900 |
| 22:56.31 | messerting | SpeedEvil: Only in the UK |
| 22:56.40 | SpeedEvil | messerting: yes. I don't care, as I'm in the UK. |
| 22:56.54 | messerting | Good for you ;) |
| 22:56.57 | SpeedEvil | (also, you only need to proxy the initial setup - teh flash srtreams are not region locked) |
| 22:57.18 | messerting | True, I need to get into proxies |
| 22:57.22 | SpeedEvil | IIRC - I've not looked into it, for the above reason. |
| 22:59.12 | nid0 | or you johnny foreigner's can pay for access to it as of next year ish :> |
| 22:59.47 | SpeedEvil | Really? |
| 22:59.54 | messerting | cool |
| 22:59.58 | *** join/#maemo sessi (~humis@temppeli.org) |
| 23:00.03 | SpeedEvil | I hope also we in the UK can pay for access to archives - or it's included in the licence. |
| 23:00.20 | nid0 | theyre planning on an ipad international iplayer service initially yeah, presumably with intention to expand it to proper platforms |
| 23:00.20 | SpeedEvil | And that the 'next year ish' doesn't mean I can't download it. |
| 23:01.57 | messerting | The problem with such an archive, is that is won't contain the good stuff that is licensed by others (non BBC) |
| 23:03.08 | messerting | whereas recording yourself, you'll get whatever you wan't in your own local (cheap) archive |
| 23:04.06 | messerting | (legally, as opposed to downloading a torrent) |
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| 23:23.17 | SpeedEvil | Breaking the TOS by keeping it too long is not legal. |
| 23:23.20 | SpeedEvil | But yes. |
| 23:24.01 | Termana | good morning |
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