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| 00:02.46 | bennypr0fane | hey, can anybody help with my Maemo app manager, it kinda stopped working... |
| 00:05.00 | bennypr0fane | here is a log created by fapman: http://pastebin.com/MsrBL2pX |
| 00:05.26 | chem|st | fast app manager? |
| 00:05.30 | bennypr0fane | yes |
| 00:05.34 | chem|st | no idea |
| 00:05.59 | bennypr0fane | but stock app manager has the same problems |
| 00:06.29 | bennypr0fane | qgvdial seems to have to do with the problem |
| 00:06.51 | bennypr0fane | i installed it, but it's not in the main menu |
| 00:07.09 | bennypr0fane | and neither in the list of installed items |
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| 00:23.01 | GeneralAntilles | Hopefully we'll have more popcorn discussion by tomorrow. |
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| 00:31.26 | Sazpaimon_ | is there a way to uninstall microb? |
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| 00:31.46 | Sazpaimon_ | i did apt-get remove osso-browser, but that keeps the /usr/bin/browser executable |
| 00:35.07 | GeneralAntilles | *facepalms* @ "I think one thing that I would like to do is to start scheduling a phone conference TSG" |
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| 01:20.22 | Sazpaimon_ | well uninstalling microb made the OS go through a crazy reboot recycle |
| 01:22.07 | SpeedEvil | Microb is a watchdogged process |
| 01:22.13 | SpeedEvil | If it can't start, it will reboot |
| 01:22.25 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I diddn't catch you saying that earlier |
| 01:23.12 | Jade | microb is watchdogged? why would they think that's a good idea |
| 01:24.34 | timeless_w7ip | jade: do you like sms? |
| 01:24.38 | timeless_w7ip | because it uses microb |
| 01:24.48 | timeless_w7ip | why would anyone want to support sms? |
| 01:24.50 | timeless_w7ip | has no idea |
| 01:24.57 | timeless_w7ip | maybe you prefer gtalk and friends? |
| 01:24.59 | Jade | sms uses microb? |
| 01:25.01 | timeless_w7ip | same thing. |
| 01:25.02 | timeless_w7ip | yes. |
| 01:25.03 | Jade | well i rarely use sms myself |
| 01:25.06 | Jade | or even phone calls |
| 01:25.08 | Jade | skype is pretty handy |
| 01:25.09 | timeless_w7ip | skype? |
| 01:25.16 | timeless_w7ip | Conversations uses microb |
| 01:25.21 | Jade | why |
| 01:25.30 | timeless_w7ip | something needs to render your conversations |
| 01:25.30 | Jade | why would they think that's a good idea |
| 01:25.36 | timeless_w7ip | would you prefer GtkHtml? |
| 01:25.53 | timeless_w7ip | and please realize i'm >< close to calling you an idiot and going to sleep |
| 01:26.06 | timeless_w7ip | microb is part of the platform |
| 01:26.11 | timeless_w7ip | and it makes sense to use it |
| 01:26.20 | timeless_w7ip | that's part of what it means to be in a platform |
| 01:26.28 | timeless_w7ip | the same way that windows uses MSHTML all over the place |
| 01:26.38 | timeless_w7ip | the same way that OS X uses WebKit all over the place |
| 01:26.50 | timeless_w7ip | everyone needs something which can fluidly render content |
| 01:26.59 | timeless_w7ip | traditional toolkits fail miserably at this |
| 01:27.05 | timeless_w7ip | otoh web browsers are *designed* for this |
| 01:27.12 | timeless_w7ip | the web browser for the n900 was microb |
| 01:27.24 | timeless_w7ip | and thus it was the *obvious* choice for use in the rest of the platform |
| 01:27.33 | timeless_w7ip | it also is not a bad agent for such a task |
| 01:27.52 | timeless_w7ip | now please apologize to everyone who worked hard to deliver the product you hold in your hands |
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| 01:32.21 | Jade | i see |
| 01:32.41 | timeless_w7ip | is waiting for something more than "i see" |
| 01:33.02 | Jade | i was only wondering why they made it be like it is |
| 01:33.48 | timeless_w7ip | please watch your tone |
| 01:34.07 | timeless_w7ip | a statement like "why would X be a good idea" is naturally interpretted as a sarcastic insult |
| 01:34.17 | timeless_w7ip | you still owe the team an apology |
| 01:45.35 | Sazpaimon_ | [21:22] <SpeedEvil> Microb is a watchdogged process |
| 01:45.35 | Sazpaimon_ | [21:22] <SpeedEvil> If it can't start, it will reboot |
| 01:46.04 | Sazpaimon_ | shame, imo opera and firefox make microb useless |
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| 01:51.59 | timeless_w7ip | really? |
| 01:52.08 | timeless_w7ip | i use both and find myself switching back to microb regularly |
| 01:52.30 | timeless_w7ip | similarly, i use a bunch of browsers on os x and w7 and i tend to fall back to the native browsers there too |
| 01:52.43 | timeless_w7ip | as for life guarding, you have root on these devices |
| 01:52.50 | timeless_w7ip | you're free to totally fsck them up any way you like |
| 01:52.58 | timeless_w7ip | and we're free to ignore you when you brick them |
| 01:53.04 | timeless_w7ip | you can remove life guarding |
| 01:53.14 | timeless_w7ip | you can also delete the cellular stack if you try hard enough |
| 01:53.15 | psycho_oreos | fennec is slow, opera can't play flash, go figure |
| 01:53.29 | timeless_w7ip | fennec ootb doesn't do flash either.. |
| 01:53.41 | timeless_w7ip | but again, you're welcome to use them |
| 01:53.46 | timeless_w7ip | the latest opera is shiny |
| 01:53.49 | psycho_oreos | yeah with hacks it can, that's something I'll need to do |
| 01:53.58 | timeless_w7ip | likes its scroll to top/scroll to bottom feature |
| 01:54.08 | timeless_w7ip | oh, iirc it's just pref'd off |
| 01:54.15 | timeless_w7ip | but that's part of <ootb> (out of the box) |
| 01:54.30 | timeless_w7ip | the story wrt opera and flash is quite sad actually |
| 01:54.41 | psycho_oreos | wrt? |
| 01:54.43 | timeless_w7ip | nokia made a mess of flash-opera in maemo |
| 01:54.49 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 01:55.01 | psycho_oreos | there's huge threads discussing about flash notably too |
| 01:55.03 | timeless_w7ip | when nokia initially developed the 770, it wanted everything to be gtk based |
| 01:55.20 | timeless_w7ip | so it insisted that opera provide a gtk wrapper for opera |
| 01:55.37 | Sazpaimon_ | so like |
| 01:55.48 | Sazpaimon_ | all my catalogs are gone |
| 01:55.50 | timeless_w7ip | in doing that, nokia somehow managed to construct something where one needed a custom flash which didn't play well with normal browsers |
| 01:55.59 | timeless_w7ip | sazpaimon: you do not have my sympathy |
| 01:56.05 | Sazpaimon_ | /etc/apt/sources.list is empty |
| 01:56.07 | Sazpaimon_ | what gives |
| 01:56.13 | timeless_w7ip | that's not how apt works |
| 01:56.19 | timeless_w7ip | go read man apt |
| 01:56.22 | timeless_w7ip | or something |
| 01:56.24 | Venemo | Sazpaimon_, see /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ |
| 01:56.26 | timeless_w7ip | maybe man sources.list.d |
| 01:56.47 | Sazpaimon_ | ohh |
| 01:56.55 | psycho_oreos | not all repos are listed there too |
| 01:57.06 | Sazpaimon_ | I'm used to vanilla debian where I only use the former |
| 01:57.32 | Sazpaimon_ | okay, well that's populated, but my catalog list is showing up empty, and nothing is showing in the application manager.. |
| 02:16.16 | Venemo | ~flashing |
| 02:16.16 | infobot | i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
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| 02:27.16 | turbowei | + |
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| 02:29.58 | turbowei | timeless_w7ipsimilarly, i use a bunch of browsers on os x and w7 and i tend to fall back to the native browsers there too // ROFLMAO |
| 02:32.00 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: (kwtm, meh): http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard - courtesy me |
| 02:33.16 | turbowei | I guess timeless loves IE |
| 02:35.25 | turbowei | and it is stupid to think sms relies on usr bin browser binary |
| 02:36.18 | turbowei | it relies on library that microb uses |
| 02:36.47 | turbowei | *also* uses |
| 02:38.00 | turbowei | microb doesnt support html5 |
| 02:38.44 | turbowei | and it is ugly as hell |
| 02:39.07 | turbowei | I am loving opera11 |
| 02:48.18 | timeless_w7ip | turbowei: ie9 is great |
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| 02:48.29 | timeless_w7ip | and i'm loving that ms is trying to bury ie6 |
| 02:49.19 | timeless_w7ip | turbowei: it relies on /usr/sbin/browserd |
| 02:49.28 | timeless_w7ip | and 'html5' isn't one thing |
| 02:49.33 | timeless_w7ip | it's a set of evolving standards |
| 02:49.35 | timeless_w7ip | and you're an idiot. |
| 02:50.04 | timeless_w7ip | it's unfortunate that microb isn't being updated |
| 02:50.12 | timeless_w7ip | but that's not the fault of the engineers who made microb |
| 02:50.23 | timeless_w7ip | that's a management decision about which we have little control |
| 02:51.09 | timeless_w7ip | turbowei: note that microb=browserd |
| 02:51.18 | timeless_w7ip | usr-bin-browser is tablet-browser-ui |
| 02:53.54 | turbowei | you dont need to run IE at all on w7 |
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| 04:09.01 | Sazpaimon_ | so I set the upper limit of my power kernel to 1100, and load a cpu intensive flash file, it goes to 1100 briefly, but then dips to 250mhz even when the flash is using 100 cpu |
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| 04:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: and? |
| 04:20.00 | Sazpaimon_ | well, why isn't power management setting the frequency when its needed |
| 04:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | (not asking why you think Ocing to 1100 would be anything near a smart idea) |
| 04:20.28 | DocScrutinizer | why do you think it's 'needed'? |
| 04:20.44 | Sazpaimon_ | because the flash plays better when its set to a higher frequency |
| 04:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | 100% CPU without any task waiting is optimum |
| 04:21.20 | Sazpaimon_ | i also have savecpu installed which will bring the frequency down at a certain temperatre |
| 04:21.30 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 04:21.55 | Sazpaimon_ | though undervolting still concerns me a bit |
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| 04:22.08 | DocScrutinizer | suggests to also fill some snakeoil into the device, via the AV receptacle |
| 04:22.36 | DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc |
| 04:22.36 | infobot | i heard omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that! |
| 04:22.59 | ds3 | 100.00% silicone oil might work better |
| 04:23.06 | ds3 | snake oil has too much snake residue |
| 04:23.45 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, silicone oil might fill the holes caused in chip by OC erosion |
| 04:24.18 | Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, if powermanagement keeps the clock at 250 at most times, how is the cpu being damanged |
| 04:24.22 | Sazpaimon_ | *damaged |
| 04:25.08 | DocScrutinizer | by the factor 100,000...1,000,000 faster electromigration during the times CPU runs at 1100 |
| 04:26.17 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe factor 1000.. 10,000 |
| 04:27.32 | DocScrutinizer | CPU lifetime is <0.5 at 600MHz, compared to 500 - and the effect is exponential |
| 04:28.14 | DocScrutinizer | so at 750MHz lifetime maybe is 0.01 of what you get at 500 |
| 04:28.52 | Sazpaimon_ | <0.5 of what though |
| 04:29.04 | Sazpaimon_ | what is the expected lifetime of the cpu |
| 04:29.06 | DocScrutinizer | of 100,000h iirc |
| 04:30.04 | DocScrutinizer | at 600MHz it's down to sth like 40,000/20,000 depending on chip build and overall temperature |
| 04:30.39 | Sazpaimon_ | of course that's assuming it's running at that frequency for 40,000 hours straight |
| 04:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | NB you got no reliable way to readout the temperature of CPU chip hotspots |
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| 04:31.18 | DocScrutinizer | sure that's not inclusive the times where CPU is at 0Hz |
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| 04:31.40 | Sazpaimon_ | or even 250Mhz |
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| 04:32.25 | DocScrutinizer | nah, 250MHz is eating up "fuel" at 100,000 rate |
| 04:34.19 | DocScrutinizer | again, this figure is at max chip temp of 95°C, which you neither can guarantee nor probe, as you dunno about exact parameter's of N900 thermal management |
| 04:34.54 | DocScrutinizer | 10°C more and lifetime also is half |
| 04:35.12 | Sazpaimon_ | i think the average user would notice if your cpu is heating up that much |
| 04:35.37 | Sazpaimon_ | maybe I'm giving the average user too much credit actually.. |
| 04:35.46 | DocScrutinizer | I think that's wishful thinking. Not even experienced EE has any idea at allof chip temp |
| 04:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | you can't know of chip temp even when dismantling the device so you could touch the ceramic/plastic around the chip |
| 04:37.30 | Sazpaimon_ | on a side note, looks like xfreerdp isn't in the default maemo repo |
| 04:37.32 | Sazpaimon_ | only rdesktop |
| 04:37.57 | DocScrutinizer | as - like explaned above - you don't know how much the chip's case is isolating and how much the PCB can dissipate the heat from chip |
| 04:39.08 | DocScrutinizer | and nota bene hotspots on chip heat up in milliseconds if not sub-ms time |
| 04:40.37 | Sazpaimon_ | yeah you're right |
| 04:41.11 | Sazpaimon_ | anyway, I guess I'll see if I can port this from sid later |
| 04:44.19 | DocScrutinizer | so odds are each time the CPU gets ramped up to 800MHz for 20ms, you see a bite taken out of CPU lifetime that's like <nominal> / ( 2 ^ ((800MHz - 600MHz)/100MHz)) / (2 ^ ((150°C - 95°C)/10°C)) |
| 04:45.23 | DocScrutinizer | = <nominal> / (2^2 * 2^5.5) |
| 04:46.13 | DocScrutinizer | = <nominal> / 16 * 45 |
| 04:46.34 | Sazpaimon_ | oh hey |
| 04:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | for an arbitrary temp of 150 instead of 95°C at hotspots |
| 04:46.53 | Sazpaimon_ | the armel package from debian sid's libfreerdp works fine in maemo |
| 04:47.00 | Sazpaimon_ | no dependency issues |
| 04:47.06 | DocScrutinizer | nobody except Nokia and of course TI know what's the hotspots realy like |
| 04:47.37 | Sazpaimon_ | oh wait, the actual binary needs libc 2.7 |
| 04:48.23 | Sazpaimon_ | I guess I'll rebild it later |
| 04:50.38 | DocScrutinizer | now you're free to do the math for 1100-500 (oops that has to be 500 instead of 600 in that equation above), plus any random hotspot temp >>95°C you'd like to assume |
| 04:50.58 | Sazpaimon_ | okay Doc, I get it |
| 04:53.37 | DocScrutinizer | and this equation is assuming a constant factor of 0.5 for each additional 100MHz which most likely istn't exactly true either, it tends to get worse on more overclocking, like *0.5 for 500->600, plus *0.3 for 600->700, plus *0.1 for 700->800, so 500->800 might be *0.5*0.3*0.1 rather then *.5*.5*.5 |
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| 05:27.12 | DocScrutinizer | HAH, looked at twinkle first time since year(s) - still like it |
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| 05:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | though my private edition evidently looked better than this smiley party ;-P |
| 05:29.12 | DocScrutinizer | WTF is "diamondcard"?? |
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| 06:13.58 | Macer | got a g2 |
| 06:18.15 | chx | does it run maemo? |
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| 06:20.15 | Macer | no.. maybe meego some year |
| 06:20.23 | Macer | :) |
| 06:21.19 | Macer | or maybe in 2020 i can pull the n900 out the drawer and install meego on it :) |
| 06:22.18 | RST38h | Heya Macer |
| 06:22.33 | DocScrutinizer | moo |
| 06:24.12 | RST38h | Moo Doc |
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| 06:26.43 | Macer | heh. hello |
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| 06:31.03 | maybeArgh | keine mitleid für das maemo? |
| 06:35.12 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~aoeu@203.213.202.186) |
| 06:35.25 | ebzzry | Hi! Is there a desktop applet for changing profile? |
| 06:36.02 | ebzzry | *profiles |
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| 06:44.30 | ebzzry | It's OK. I got it. |
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| 06:52.04 | AsiQue | morning |
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| 07:09.23 | mece | anyone using opera on N900? |
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| 07:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | hey if you want to laugh: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2141/linux-cell-phones/4983#4983 |
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| 07:36.43 | Termana | good morning |
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| 07:45.48 | AsiQue | mece: yeha...using it and its very smooth |
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| 07:53.51 | MohammadAG | that cutetube dev is umm.. interesting(?) http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=974337&postcount=841 |
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| 07:54.55 | Termana | MohammadAG, lovely. |
| 07:54.59 | Termana | Trust you to notice that |
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| 07:57.26 | MohammadAG | Termana, I hate you :) |
| 07:59.00 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (~berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:00.21 | MohammadAG | but seriously, shouldn't he focus on getting a working version out then adding what he wants to that... |
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| 08:04.31 | Termana | MohammadAG, mmm, I would hope there is setting to disable that or something |
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| 08:05.11 | MohammadAG | Termana, same tbh |
| 08:06.24 | ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: looks like a troll to me. |
| 08:07.02 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, a trolls meeting there |
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| 08:08.30 | DocScrutinizer | haha, GE warns Japan about salt in seawater may clog the cooling path of reactors - very unexpected new thought |
| 08:10.09 | DocScrutinizer | well, no problem as tepco reduced seawater injection after they learnt each time they inject water to core, the pressure is rising dramatically - another really unexpected effect :-P |
| 08:10.48 | DocScrutinizer | three stooges, really |
| 08:11.14 | Termana | Australia has no nuclear power plants. Win for Australia |
| 08:11.17 | Termana | (for once) |
| 08:11.48 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 08:13.02 | ruskie | Termana, but you lot have sufficient room to put tons and tons of alt power stations ;) |
| 08:13.27 | ruskie | some countries don't have such luxury and need the higher fuel/power ratio of nuke power plants |
| 08:13.33 | DocScrutinizer | block 5 cooling broken, so now we finally have 5 critical blocks \o/ |
| 08:13.45 | ruskie | is this by western news outlets? |
| 08:14.31 | ruskie | stopped following after half of the second week and just asks a friend who lives in Tokyo what's the status... and nobody really seem to be bothered with anything |
| 08:14.34 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com) |
| 08:15.07 | DocScrutinizer | except there's no more water in bottles for sale anywhere :-( |
| 08:15.32 | ruskie | why exactly would you need that? |
| 08:17.32 | DocScrutinizer | me?? |
| 08:18.01 | DocScrutinizer | don't ask me, ask the Tokyo residents who bought all of it |
| 08:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | maybe related to gvmt's recommendation to not feed babies with tap water in Tokyo |
| 08:19.15 | ruskie | well japan does a lot of precautionary things |
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| 08:19.34 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and for some reason |
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| 08:20.12 | rhkfin | Anyone have any idea or pointer how to figure out why WLAn doesn't work on N900+CSSU (from ~3 weeks ago). It gets the IP but no traffic. |
| 08:20.32 | *** join/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@85.183.48.167) |
| 08:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | better start early, it's a bonus those 3 real critical blocks take that long until final super-GAU |
| 08:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | well, actually 4 blocks |
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| 08:22.16 | DocScrutinizer | rhkfin: wfm |
| 08:23.11 | rhkfin | wfm..? |
| 08:23.33 | rhkfin | almost like wtf, ftw and rtfm.. ;)? |
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| 08:25.49 | MohammadAG | ~wtf wfm |
| 08:25.57 | rhkfin | ah, I see ;) |
| 08:26.13 | MohammadAG | ~wtf roflmfao |
| 08:26.15 | rhkfin | It also worked for me for long but suddenly (maybe while upgrading some packages, not sure) stopper |
| 08:26.16 | MohammadAG | fail |
| 08:26.45 | rhkfin | I'll upgrade CSSU again & see what happens.. |
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| 08:31.18 | rhkfin | How to see what happens if N900 gets IP and that's it..? |
| 08:31.23 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: yeah, fail. Doesn't make sense, neither to ibot nor to me |
| 08:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~rofl |
| 08:31.56 | infobot | rofl is probably rolling on the floor laughing |
| 08:32.06 | DocScrutinizer | ~lmfao |
| 08:32.06 | infobot | rumour has it, lmfao is Laughing My Fucking Ass Off |
| 08:32.37 | MohammadAG | ~wtf roflmfao |
| 08:33.20 | DocScrutinizer | man wtf |
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| 08:35.14 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5ADF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:36.44 | mece | gasps! |
| 08:37.01 | mece | infobot said fuck! Banhammer time! Bwuahahaha! |
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| 08:39.24 | DocScrutinizer | mece: Life of Brian? |
| 08:39.42 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178193150.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 08:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | "He said Jehova!" "YOU said Jehova!" |
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| 08:40.29 | DocScrutinizer | "They both said Jehova!!!!" |
| 08:43.35 | pupnik | what's the min pixel height of a finger-hittable row on the n900? |
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| 08:44.24 | pupnik | looks like... 70 pixels |
| 08:44.52 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079470/quotes?qt=qt0471968 |
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| 08:45.10 | DocScrutinizer | (don't say "Jehova"!)^^^ |
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| 08:50.02 | mece | DocScrutinizer :D |
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| 08:57.24 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: seems to depend on size of finger |
| 08:58.35 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: I rarely have trouble with the ebook 'open' selecrror on fbreader |
| 08:59.14 | SpeedEvil | maybe 13 vertical pixels per screen? |
| 08:59.18 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 08:59.21 | SpeedEvil | 13 rows |
| 09:00.28 | SpeedEvil | 70 is a bit much |
| 09:00.32 | SpeedEvil | But safe |
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| 09:20.58 | AsiQue | hey MohammadAG, i left pelephone and moved to orange... tbe n900 works better... (it have 2G now) |
| 09:21.23 | *** part/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de) |
| 09:21.50 | AsiQue | now it's time to port waze...... |
| 09:22.28 | MohammadAG | AsiQue, 2G? |
| 09:22.43 | MohammadAG | Orange has 3.5G |
| 09:22.48 | AsiQue | yeha... when u don't have 3G reception |
| 09:23.21 | AsiQue | pelephone works on diferent freq... so i dosn't work there |
| 09:23.49 | AsiQue | anyway it's a work line... so i have internet... so gonne look into porting waze... |
| 09:24.07 | MohammadAG | Oh right, Pelephone uses the US frequencies |
| 09:24.08 | AsiQue | *so it dosn't work there |
| 09:24.15 | AsiQue | yep |
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| 09:40.47 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:41.24 | rhkfin | upgraded CSSU, WLAN works again. |
| 09:42.24 | pupnik | SpeedEvil: 480p height - if i stack fingers up the n900 screen, i can fit about 5 = ~ 90 pixels height |
| 09:42.42 | pupnik | actually 4 is closer |
| 09:44.11 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: yeah - but the centre of the finger... |
| 09:45.00 | pupnik | http://i.imgur.com/1nGuR.jpg working on that |
| 09:45.23 | rhkfin | Hyy what do you people use to sync google calendar to maemo calendar? MS Exchange sync just keeps failing :/ :( |
| 09:45.47 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: that seems challenging to touchify |
| 09:45.58 | SpeedEvil | (based on my experiences of nethack) |
| 09:46.13 | pupnik | yeah but fun |
| 09:46.18 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: Also - why does your keyboard have stuff on it |
| 09:49.15 | pupnik | SpeedEvil: that's where i wore through the coating |
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| 09:49.54 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: Ah. I would guess some game? |
| 09:50.10 | crashanddie_ | mount -t reiserfs -o killwife=disabled /dev/sda3 / |
| 09:50.12 | pupnik | no mostly irc/shell |
| 09:50.27 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie_: That's not fair. |
| 09:50.44 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie_: One should only criticise after writing a filesystem, and not killing their partner. |
| 09:50.57 | crashanddie_ | I'm not criticising, I'm admiring |
| 09:51.06 | pupnik | i cannot judge as i didn't know the woman |
| 09:51.08 | SpeedEvil | Has anyone really investigated other filesystem authors spousal death statistics? |
| 09:52.27 | rhkfin | :) |
| 09:55.59 | MohammadAG | Error handling in foss mediaplayer, the way it should've been http://i52.tinypic.com/xdb5uo.jpg |
| 09:56.00 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:56.26 | MohammadAG | should be installed instead of supported, but meh |
| 09:56.47 | SpeedEvil | Not found. |
| 09:56.54 | SpeedEvil | As it may not be installable |
| 09:57.05 | robbiethe1st | Not found would be best. |
| 09:57.40 | MohammadAG | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/mafw/MafwRenderer.html#MafwRendererError lots of useful error codes, all dumped by Nokia |
| 09:57.53 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
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| 09:58.46 | lolcat | oO |
| 09:58.54 | lolcat | I figured out how to merge contatcs |
| 09:59.42 | SpeedEvil | Does it involve a popular blendtek product, and lots of screams? |
| 09:59.45 | *** join/#maemo schend (~suresh@nat/nokia/x-dwpkyduuqkwgqgeu) |
| 10:00.05 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 10:00.19 | MohammadAG | MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_DRM The media item has drm protection and cannot be played. |
| 10:00.27 | MohammadAG | I thought the N900 didn't support DRM |
| 10:00.35 | ruskie | might be for m6 |
| 10:01.10 | MohammadAG | I'd guess m6 doesn't use mafw |
| 10:02.39 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: you can't decode DRMd stuff if you don't have DRM protectoipn |
| 10:04.02 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@2.69.154.243) |
| 10:04.10 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 10:09.48 | MohammadAG | error handling is boring |
| 10:10.30 | crashanddie_ | Error handling is like wearing condoms. It takes the edge off the fun, but it might stop you regretting things for the next 20 years. |
| 10:10.44 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@216.59.18.230) |
| 10:12.07 | MohammadAG | LOL |
| 10:12.40 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-98-154-251-72.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:12.44 | MohammadAG | what would be better, "playlist is corrupt" or "playlist is corrupted"? |
| 10:13.02 | SpeedEvil | I'd go with corrupt |
| 10:13.05 | pupnik | gimp kills my .png alpha channels |
| 10:13.09 | crashanddie_ | "Playlist corrupted" or "Corrupted playlist" probably. |
| 10:13.10 | pupnik | cries |
| 10:13.35 | MohammadAG | hmm, it might be empty |
| 10:13.43 | robbiethe1st | MohammadAG: How about "The playlist seems to be corrupt? Clear, retry, ignore? |
| 10:13.46 | mece | damn spambot on tmo |
| 10:14.09 | MohammadAG | so again, "playlist is corrupt or empty" or "playlist is corrupted or empty" |
| 10:14.11 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:14.25 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG, "I'm terribly sorry, dear friend, but it would appear I am yet again unable to provide any assistance. You see, your playlist is corrupted, and my creators have not implemented an artificial intelligence good enough that would allow me to make something useful out of the shreds of song names you provided me with." |
| 10:14.26 | robbiethe1st | corrupt, in that case |
| 10:14.30 | MohammadAG | robbiethe1st, not possible with the Maemo 5 dialog, but anyway, you can just click the item again and it makes a playlist |
| 10:14.31 | mece | MohammadAG, the ed one. |
| 10:14.42 | mece | erm |
| 10:14.57 | robbiethe1st | MohammadAG: You can't pop up a QMessageBox(I think it is)? |
| 10:14.58 | mece | "Corrupted playlist" is the best suggestion |
| 10:15.07 | mece | imo |
| 10:15.15 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, you know, error messages like those would make it more fun |
| 10:15.21 | MohammadAG | mece, what about empty? |
| 10:15.28 | MohammadAG | it would send the same int for empty/corrupt playlist |
| 10:15.30 | crashanddie_ | empty != corrupt |
| 10:15.42 | MohammadAG | MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_PLAYLIST_PARSING Renderer tried to parse a media playlist and it corrupted (or empty). |
| 10:15.57 | crashanddie_ | exactly that "Error while parsing the playlist" |
| 10:15.59 | mece | perhaps just playlist error |
| 10:16.02 | robbiethe1st | How about this "The playlist appears to be empty. Are you sure you added media to this playlist?" |
| 10:16.06 | mece | yes what crashanddie_ said |
| 10:16.26 | crashanddie_ | or "Couldn't parse playlist" |
| 10:16.28 | mece | sans "the" imo. |
| 10:16.36 | mece | error while sounds better. |
| 10:16.38 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p54A1FDF8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:16.47 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 10:16.52 | mece | erm no |
| 10:16.52 | mece | wait |
| 10:17.09 | mece | failed is a better word |
| 10:17.19 | mece | no error. |
| 10:17.21 | mece | erm |
| 10:17.33 | crashanddie_ | dude |
| 10:17.37 | robbiethe1st | Whatever the message is, it needs to be something -not- 'scary' - something that's not likely to make people post in the forums asking about it. |
| 10:17.47 | crashanddie_ | take your multiple-personality-disorder-pills, mece |
| 10:17.57 | mece | crashanddie_, I forgot them at home |
| 10:17.58 | crashanddie_ | or try to agree with yourself before typing :P |
| 10:18.01 | robbiethe1st | If it said like "Error! guru meditation #110357"... well.. |
| 10:18.39 | mece | well then I think it's better to say that it's the playlists fault and not the software trying to parse it :) |
| 10:18.47 | robbiethe1st | ^^ |
| 10:18.57 | robbiethe1st | "Playlist may be corrupt or empty"? |
| 10:18.58 | crashanddie_ | On on the of the biggest projects I worked on |
| 10:19.01 | mece | yes |
| 10:19.01 | crashanddie_ | when things went really wrong |
| 10:19.21 | crashanddie_ | we'd just dump "Something bad happened" to the screen |
| 10:19.24 | crashanddie_ | and that was it |
| 10:19.33 | *** join/#maemo ilon (ilon@2001:9b0:102:cace::2) |
| 10:19.33 | crashanddie_ | all the funky logging infrastructure that was available was completely ignored |
| 10:20.21 | crashanddie_ | Now, when a customer spends $20M on a product, out of which, $1M was dedicated to the logging infrastructure, they were kinda pissed when it just died with a silent "Something bad happened" |
| 10:20.24 | mece | "shit happened" |
| 10:20.26 | mece | would be nice |
| 10:20.58 | crashanddie_ | BTW, I love my job |
| 10:21.08 | *** join/#maemo mvenplus (~Martin@ec2-175-41-251-235.ap-northeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 10:21.18 | crashanddie_ | What's the plural of "value", "try", "entry"? |
| 10:21.35 | rhkfin | values, tries, entries? |
| 10:21.42 | crashanddie_ | you'd think that |
| 10:21.50 | crashanddie_ | however... if ((trys >= 3) && !ok) ccc.qos_node.innerHTML |
| 10:22.05 | alterego | Heh |
| 10:22.12 | rhkfin | :D |
| 10:22.21 | crashanddie_ | Basically, this is a guy who's written shitloads of macros |
| 10:22.51 | alterego | It's not uncommon to have bad spelling in code tbh :P |
| 10:23.13 | crashanddie_ | so when he wants a linked chain (he doesn't use libstd, stl or anything, wrote everything himself), he needs to track the "singular" name of the chain, but also name it to be the chain, in which case it's plural |
| 10:23.20 | crashanddie_ | so when it's plural, he just adds an s |
| 10:24.20 | crashanddie_ | This, from a guy who tightly controls the compilation process because he "doesn't trust the linker" |
| 10:24.54 | alterego | O_o |
| 10:24.56 | alterego | Sounds like a right pedant. |
| 10:24.56 | SpeedEvil | That pesky linker! |
| 10:25.12 | alterego | Good luck him getting a decent job :P |
| 10:25.24 | crashanddie_ | oh he makes well over 200k euro a year |
| 10:25.26 | mece | the linker stiffed me for 20⬠the other day. I don't trust him either. |
| 10:25.50 | alterego | Heh |
| 10:26.15 | crashanddie_ | So we have this library, called wo, it takes care of everything from sockets to xml parsing and generation |
| 10:26.33 | crashanddie_ | you'd think you just include the header file and be done with it, right? |
| 10:26.54 | crashanddie_ | maybe point the compiler to the right .so or something |
| 10:27.10 | crashanddie_ | not quite, because he doesn't trust the linker, we have conditional compilation |
| 10:27.19 | alterego | Do you have to define defines to get certain bits working? |
| 10:27.29 | crashanddie_ | yes |
| 10:27.30 | alterego | Yeah, that's what I thought :) |
| 10:27.42 | crashanddie_ | well, during the compilation -DSPECIFIC_FEATURE |
| 10:27.52 | alterego | This guy is like 50? |
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| 10:27.59 | crashanddie_ | just under it, yeah |
| 10:28.13 | crashanddie_ | which also means that instead of compiling everything once, and then linking the correct bits together |
| 10:28.14 | alterego | Yeah, sort of makes sense :) |
| 10:28.16 | mece | any tmo mods here? could we have a kick/ban/removeallposts for this one: http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=52296 |
| 10:28.28 | crashanddie_ | we compile the library about 80 times |
| 10:28.59 | crashanddie_ | so on my quad core computer, about 9 minutes of compilation for a release (which has -g and -O6) |
| 10:29.11 | derf | crashanddie_: It could be worse. You could be using boost. |
| 10:29.15 | crashanddie_ | true |
| 10:29.27 | crashanddie_ | but it's kinda fun, because he's tired of the project |
| 10:29.33 | crashanddie_ | so he's giving me all the info I want |
| 10:29.39 | crashanddie_ | I completely rewrote the makefiles |
| 10:29.49 | mece | what's with the boost hate? |
| 10:29.57 | crashanddie_ | optimised the compilation process to gain roughly 30% speedup, not bad. |
| 10:30.21 | alterego | Are you gonna make it a .so? |
| 10:30.35 | crashanddie_ | And I'm silently, and discreetly, rewriting the whole 350k lines of code in real C++, with inheritance and all |
| 10:30.54 | crashanddie_ | alterego, will see, I'm basically kicking out all the unnecessary libraries |
| 10:30.57 | mece | alterego, badam-bom-tcssssssh |
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| 10:31.19 | alterego | Heh, why? Why not just use Qt? |
| 10:31.36 | crashanddie_ | alterego, I don't see the point of maintaining our own proprietary XML parser, rather than using libxerces or something |
| 10:31.37 | *** part/#maemo rhkfin (rhk@ubuntu/member/rhkfin) |
| 10:32.00 | crashanddie_ | I talked to the CEO, I have the green light to get the guys to contribute to open source rather than maintaining our own shit |
| 10:32.14 | crashanddie_ | The new version, the one I'm silently designing/writing will probably be open sourced |
| 10:32.26 | mece | I'm actually working with xml parsing in my current work project and it's driving me towards hard drugs |
| 10:33.15 | alterego | cool |
| 10:33.16 | alterego | But why not use Qt? |
| 10:33.28 | crashanddie_ | alterego, you asking me? Or mece? |
| 10:33.41 | mece | he's asking you crashanddie_ |
| 10:33.48 | crashanddie_ | Because I don't like Qt |
| 10:33.54 | crashanddie_ | well, it's not bad per se |
| 10:33.59 | crashanddie_ | it's just way too bloated for what we do |
| 10:34.19 | crashanddie_ | there's a reason the guy uses -O6 |
| 10:34.31 | crashanddie_ | might be the wrong reasons, but the end thought is still valid |
| 10:34.37 | ruskie | hehe |
| 10:35.05 | crashanddie_ | for telephony systems, you need very fast systems |
| 10:35.26 | ruskie | why not use ASM then ;) |
| 10:35.47 | crashanddie_ | btw, for the record on a gigabit network, we answer a call in less than a ms |
| 10:35.51 | MohammadAG | <crashanddie_> The new version, the one I'm silently designing/writing will probably be open sourced <-- you do realize that was logged, twice |
| 10:35.58 | alterego | Hrm .. |
| 10:36.15 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG, yeah, and did I ever mention his name, the company's name, or the project's name? |
| 10:36.21 | crashanddie_ | ok, it'll be project Google. |
| 10:36.22 | ruskie | hehe ;) |
| 10:36.30 | alterego | Well, as long as you have a reason to basically write another framework :P |
| 10:36.33 | crashanddie_ | good luck for him finding that keyword on the interweb ;) |
| 10:36.44 | crashanddie_ | alterego, I won't be writing another framework |
| 10:37.52 | crashanddie_ | alterego, the portions that are valid will remain as the library, the ones that aren't (SIP management? OpenSIP does it fine, XML? Xerces is awesome and fast. Encryption? OpenSSL will do that) will get removed/replaced by maintained and opensource libs |
| 10:38.29 | crashanddie_ | so it'll be like any other project, leveraging what others have done. |
| 10:39.04 | crashanddie_ | To give you an idea, he wanted to implement PKI encryption himself... |
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| 10:39.29 | crashanddie_ | I told him to stop being an arrogant ass, and to use OpenSSL or nss. |
| 10:39.49 | ruskie | or any other ssl lib that's already developed |
| 10:39.54 | crashanddie_ | exactly |
| 10:41.14 | alterego | There are a few. |
| 10:41.14 | alterego | This guy sounds like stallman :P |
| 10:41.26 | crashanddie_ | Nha |
| 10:41.30 | crashanddie_ | He's more like Sheldon |
| 10:41.47 | alterego | ahah, yeah. |
| 10:41.53 | crashanddie_ | I mean, physically and all |
| 10:42.24 | crashanddie_ | with the trousers that are too short, the hair cut by his wife every weekend and all. |
| 10:42.27 | MohammadAG | which error policy should I set in case an error occurs |
| 10:42.29 | MohammadAG | MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_POLICY_CONTINUE move to next item in playlist if available. |
| 10:42.29 | MohammadAG | MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_POLICY_STOP stop playback. |
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| 10:42.37 | alterego | Heh, weird. |
| 10:42.38 | crashanddie_ | CONTINUE |
| 10:42.43 | MohammadAG | I'd go with stop, the user can... why? |
| 10:42.58 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG, ever listened to audio CDs? |
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| 10:43.01 | crashanddie_ | like, in the car? |
| 10:43.14 | MohammadAG | this is a video window :P |
| 10:43.22 | crashanddie_ | You know when a song is fucked, and the CD player just goes beserk? |
| 10:43.42 | crashanddie_ | It's nicer when it just skips to the next available song, rather than plainly give up |
| 10:43.44 | MohammadAG | it doesn't go berserk, ours goes on playing till you pull it out :P |
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| 10:51.43 | jacekowski | i have no CD player |
| 10:53.05 | jacekowski | crashanddie_: do you know that there is ASM XML parser |
| 10:53.14 | jacekowski | crashanddie_: and it's like 10x faster than anything else |
| 10:53.29 | crashanddie_ | probably, but XML parsing isn't time critical in most cases |
| 10:53.58 | jacekowski | http://tibleiz.net/asm-xml/ |
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| 10:54.14 | jacekowski | http://tibleiz.net/asm-xml/benchmark.html |
| 10:54.23 | jacekowski | Xereces is slowest |
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| 10:54.47 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, and lemme guess, you don't drive :P |
| 10:54.56 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: i do |
| 10:55.27 | jacekowski | i should buy a bicycle |
| 10:55.31 | jacekowski | and i'm thinking about that |
| 10:55.37 | jacekowski | and getting to work on a bicycle |
| 10:55.44 | jacekowski | but i would have to wake up hour earlier |
| 10:56.14 | ilon | i'm trying to flash my n900, flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f works just fine, when its done i try to run -F <EMMC> -f -R, it says "booting device into flash mode" then nothing happens except the USB-icon in the upper right corner on the phone dissapears and the led goes yellow |
| 10:56.23 | ilon | what can i do? |
| 10:57.13 | crashanddie_ | jacekowski, xerces isn't that slow actually, expat is good, but the scenery has changed a lot since I last looked at it, thanks for that link. |
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| 10:58.36 | jacekowski | ilon: without -R |
| 10:58.48 | ilon | jacekowski: okey, will try |
| 11:00.34 | ilon | jacekowski: tho every guide says i should run "flasher-3.5 -FRX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R", i.e. with the -R flag |
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| 11:04.52 | ilon | jacekowski: no difference, still stuck at the same point, CMT flash successfully, EMMC flash dosnt find my device after rebooting it into flash mode. |
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| 11:14.41 | Polesch | How do I install a .deb file+ |
| 11:14.44 | Polesch | ? |
| 11:14.52 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 11:17.52 | ilon | Polesch: ipkg install <file> i think |
| 11:18.00 | ilon | Polesch: on a debian system that is |
| 11:18.18 | Polesch | I'm on the N900. |
| 11:18.36 | ruskie | ilon, ipkg??? I think you're cofused |
| 11:18.44 | ruskie | dpkg -i deb |
| 11:19.20 | Polesch | Second question, is MeeGo useful? |
| 11:19.28 | MohammadAG | The N900 is debian based |
| 11:19.29 | Polesch | "Worth installing"? |
| 11:19.31 | MohammadAG | Define useful |
| 11:19.41 | MohammadAG | Developer? |
| 11:20.00 | MohammadAG | If you want to get involved in development/bug reports, yes |
| 11:20.21 | alterego | MohammadAG: maemo is debian based, the N900 is the hardware :P |
| 11:20.26 | Polesch | I'm just a curious avid user. |
| 11:20.51 | MohammadAG | alterego, Cambridge right? *books plane tickets* |
| 11:21.06 | MohammadAG | Polesch, you might find it slow/not suitable for day to day use |
| 11:21.50 | alterego | Polesch: we're getting there, I'd come back when DE is available, unless you want to hlep us :) |
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| 11:22.17 | Polesch | "We are"? Are you a developer? |
| 11:22.37 | ilon | ruskie: confused it is :P |
| 11:23.54 | alterego | Yes, I am a developer, |
| 11:24.29 | Polesch | I will come here and blame you for all the future problems I will have with that system then. |
| 11:24.58 | Polesch | Just be sure to get a call manager into this MeeGo, I hate not being able to block some callers, or blacklist them. |
| 11:25.20 | ruskie | Polesch, try #meego for meego related stuff ;) |
| 11:25.52 | Polesch | I paid almost a thousand bucks for this device, just be aware of that. |
| 11:26.32 | alterego | Polesch: you didn't pay me a thousand bucks which gives you absolutely no right to get pissy at me. |
| 11:26.44 | Polesch | Of course I can. |
| 11:26.46 | alterego | I work for free |
| 11:26.59 | Polesch | That's stupid, don't blame me! |
| 11:27.25 | MohammadAG | we're not working for Nokia |
| 11:27.53 | Polesch | The hardware is great, the system is mostly the problem. |
| 11:27.59 | ruskie | this is a communtiy channel |
| 11:28.00 | MohammadAG | and I paid a thousand bucks for it, makes your argument invalid |
| 11:28.03 | ruskie | so wrong place to spew bile... |
| 11:28.08 | MohammadAG | it's not our problem |
| 11:28.11 | Polesch | I have nothing to complain about though, so :) |
| 11:28.24 | crashanddie_ | Polesch, please stop trolling, or I'll make you stop. |
| 11:28.25 | ruskie | you want to spew bile direct it to the nokia conversations forums thingy... |
| 11:28.47 | Polesch | Okey, sorry for my ranting! |
| 11:29.14 | Polesch | But can I ask an honest question, why would you work for free? |
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| 11:29.48 | crashanddie_ | Polesch, why does the red cross work through the work of free volunteers? |
| 11:29.48 | MohammadAG | The fun of it, we're not working for anyone |
| 11:30.18 | Polesch | But the red cross actually do get paid. |
| 11:30.24 | crashanddie_ | No, they don't |
| 11:30.28 | Polesch | And the workers at red cross get all their expenses paid for. |
| 11:30.30 | nidO | their volunteers dont |
| 11:30.31 | crashanddie_ | Volunteers are just that, volunteers, no payment. |
| 11:30.42 | crashanddie_ | expenses, sure. But we don't incur expenses, do we? |
| 11:30.55 | crashanddie_ | And when we travel for it, some of us (who need it) get their expenses paid. |
| 11:31.12 | Polesch | So you get paid in experience and fun, eh? |
| 11:31.23 | crashanddie_ | Something like that |
| 11:31.34 | nidO | same as pretty much every community contributor for any open project yeah |
| 11:32.04 | crashanddie_ | I put it on my CV, and it pretty much got me my current job |
| 11:32.50 | Polesch | Back to the real problems, I'm having problems with superuser privileges. I tried to install rootsh, but "sudo gainroot" still give me: "Enable RD.." |
| 11:33.02 | ruskie | install rootsh from the repos first |
| 11:33.50 | Polesch | Is there a general ideology among you programming-volunteers? Anti-capitalism? |
| 11:34.13 | crashanddie_ | not really |
| 11:34.43 | Polesch | You just think that we should have a free alternative? |
| 11:34.55 | crashanddie_ | Not necessarily either |
| 11:35.00 | crashanddie_ | Open != Free |
| 11:36.08 | ruskie | and Free != free |
| 11:36.18 | alterego | I do it for two reasons, one because it interests me, and two, becuase I rely and use a lot of free open source stuff myself, I feel I'm giving something back. |
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| 11:38.27 | Polesch | When I use the command: "dpkg -i", how do I direct it to the file located in the "Documents" folder? |
| 11:38.45 | crashanddie_ | you really shouldn't use dpkg -i |
| 11:38.46 | Polesch | It's in "home/user" |
| 11:39.06 | Polesch | I have a ".deb" file that I'd like to install.. |
| 11:42.00 | Polesch | I just get "No such file or directory" |
| 11:42.15 | MohammadAG | dpkg -i /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/file.deb |
| 11:42.44 | MohammadAG | use tab to complete filenames |
| 11:42.58 | MohammadAG | all filenames and paths are case sensitive |
| 11:43.42 | Polesch | I can't get the correct path.. |
| 11:44.29 | Polesch | On the phone, it says: "Nokia N900/Documents/filename.deb" |
| 11:45.26 | nidO | then MohammadAG's path is correct |
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| 11:47.38 | Polesch | Seems to work now. Thanks a lot. |
| 11:51.15 | mece | alterego, sounds exactly like my motivation for oss |
| 11:51.16 | mece | :D |
| 11:51.39 | Polesch | I can't access the extras-devel repository though. |
| 11:51.56 | crashanddie_ | ok, Polesch, here's the thing |
| 11:52.13 | Polesch | "repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/" |
| 11:52.28 | crashanddie_ | Use a bloody search engine. We are not your housekeepers. |
| 11:53.05 | Polesch | But search engines all give the same result, where I have a problem. |
| 11:53.44 | crashanddie_ | I'm about to kick you out of this channel, understood? |
| 11:53.44 | Polesch | "Download libxss1" from the repository.. I can't find it in the repository! |
| 11:53.52 | crashanddie_ | Because I'm still not sure whether you're a troll or not. |
| 11:54.17 | Polesch | Probably somewhere inbetween. |
| 11:55.07 | Polesch | I keep facing these problems, and they are frustrating for me too. |
| 11:57.18 | ruskie | would suggest reading the instruction manual and wiki.maemo.org |
| 11:57.25 | ruskie | and possibly searching on talk.maemo.org |
| 11:57.36 | mece | there's an instruction manual? |
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| 11:58.21 | ruskie | mece, amazing isn't it? |
| 11:58.27 | ruskie | it does have some info in there |
| 11:58.36 | ruskie | but I hardly recall what's in there |
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| 12:01.02 | ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/24/iphone_survives_plunge_from_plane/ <-- fun... |
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| 12:03.12 | jacekowski | ilon: ehh |
| 12:03.25 | jacekowski | ilon: don't restart it |
| 12:03.36 | jacekowski | ilon: combined -> emmc -> then restart |
| 12:04.23 | ilon | jacekowski: it restarted by itself when done flashing combined.. |
| 12:04.29 | ilon | jacekowski: tried on 3 windows installs |
| 12:04.43 | ilon | jacekowski: then i found out there's actually a flasher for linux |
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| 12:04.56 | ilon | jacekowski: made it a walk in the park, made it on the first try :)) |
| 12:05.10 | ilon | jacekowski: now its reflashed and reverted to my backup |
| 12:06.31 | jacekowski | yeah, linux flasher is the way to go |
| 12:06.37 | jacekowski | windows one tends to not work very often |
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| 12:09.33 | ilon | jacekowski: well, i use linux as my primary OS, dosnt even own a device with win on, used klient PCs when flashing, didnt know the flasher was around for linux |
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| 12:13.55 | timeless_w7ip | ilon: there are two flashers for windows |
| 12:14.06 | timeless_w7ip | one is a gui flasher and one is a commandline flasher that works just like the linux one |
| 12:14.29 | timeless_w7ip | the gui flasher was designed a long long time ago for your average user |
| 12:14.53 | timeless_w7ip | it wasn't updated to deal w/ optfication |
| 12:15.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~flash |
| 12:15.32 | infobot | it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
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| 12:17.35 | timeless_w7ip | it's a typical case of people not properly setting dependencies in an architecture diagram such that when someone changes how things works the dependent team is notified and asked to update their component :( |
| 12:17.52 | timeless_w7ip | ironically i'm sure both teams spent a lot of time writing useless architecture documents which no one read |
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| 12:42.23 | jacekowski | timeless_w7ip: windows flasher failed |
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| 12:45.39 | timeless_w7ip | jacekowski: *which* and doing *what*? |
| 12:45.58 | jacekowski | timeless_w7ip: commandline one |
| 12:46.01 | jacekowski | timeless_w7ip: flashing |
| 12:46.10 | jacekowski | timeless_w7ip: same commands on linux just worked |
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| 12:46.47 | timeless_w7ip | hrm |
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| 13:14.16 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:15.43 | macmaN | anyone had drlaunch not launch any apps no matter how long you press? |
| 13:18.06 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:18.49 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:18.58 | lolcat | Does the N900 handle 5000 numbers in one contact? |
| 13:19.43 | ruskie | try it |
| 13:21.48 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:22.42 | lolcat | It didn't seam to work |
| 13:23.17 | ruskie | any particular reason you need 5000 numbers? |
| 13:23.20 | lolcat | I only got a few |
| 13:23.31 | lolcat | ruskie: All the common phone sellers in Norway |
| 13:23.43 | lolcat | Is there a way to have two phone books in the N900? |
| 13:23.52 | ruskie | don't think so |
| 13:23.54 | lolcat | I could import the top 250 as separate numbers |
| 13:24.25 | lolcat | But that would pollute my contact list |
| 13:24.49 | ruskie | get an unlisted number |
| 13:25.03 | lolcat | Won't help |
| 13:25.11 | lolcat | Some of these are fraudulent numbers |
| 13:25.23 | ruskie | don't you like have some laws for this? |
| 13:25.31 | *** join/#maemo mhlavink (~quassel@nat/redhat/x-cdofbksuzpszpdpq) |
| 13:25.44 | lolcat | I can get registrated as someone who does not wish contact with phone salesmenn |
| 13:25.48 | *** join/#maemo tackat_ (~trahn@193.158.222.114) |
| 13:25.54 | lolcat | But they can still call me about 'free offres' and such |
| 13:26.26 | lolcat | So to have them all in a phonebook would be sweet |
| 13:26.52 | ruskie | you can have quite a few numbers in a single contact though |
| 13:27.01 | ruskie | have you actually tried with something like 100? |
| 13:27.49 | lolcat | I tried it with 5000 |
| 13:27.56 | lolcat | I can tell it is FAR less than 5000 |
| 13:28.17 | ruskie | how can you tell that? |
| 13:29.17 | lolcat | I opened the contact |
| 13:29.18 | ruskie | also have you looked at any of the blacklist thingies? |
| 13:29.29 | ruskie | those might let you just list numbers and not rely on contacts |
| 13:30.27 | *** join/#maemo lucent (eshattow@2001:470:e056:1:2::) |
| 13:30.30 | lolcat | It only supports 22 numbers in one contact |
| 13:30.42 | lolcat | Probably |
| 13:31.38 | ruskie | well maybe you could use one of those to do so... |
| 13:32.39 | *** join/#maemo Sazpaimon_ (wat@c-68-57-16-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 13:32.41 | lolcat | There is also one woman, who has called me 7-8 times this month |
| 13:32.44 | lolcat | Wrong number |
| 13:33.01 | lolcat | Next time I will tell her, if she don't stop I will take legal actions against her |
| 13:33.22 | timeless_w7ip | lolcat: no |
| 13:33.28 | timeless_w7ip | there's a limit of around 50 contact fields |
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| 13:33.36 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 13:33.56 | timeless_w7ip | it isn't precisely 50, and the number is somewhat quirky because of implentation bugs involving counting fields |
| 13:34.03 | timeless_w7ip | (it's closer to 47 iirc) |
| 13:34.12 | timeless_w7ip | there should be a bug filed by me in bugs.maemo.org that talks about the limit |
| 13:34.14 | lolcat | timeless_w7ip: http://www.telefonterror.no/uke_alle/terrorliste.vcf it is 5000 numbers in that one. It only shows 22 on my n900 |
| 13:34.45 | timeless_w7ip | shrugs |
| 13:34.57 | timeless_w7ip | i manually hit the limit while investigating error strings |
| 13:35.07 | timeless_w7ip | this was a *long* time ago |
| 13:35.11 | *** join/#maemo madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu) |
| 13:35.21 | timeless_w7ip | but i know for i fact i "spent" the time hitting the limit |
| 13:35.31 | timeless_w7ip | partially to determine just how buggy the counting code was |
| 13:35.40 | timeless_w7ip | (yes, i think i even wrote a patch, no i don't think they took it) |
| 13:35.57 | MohammadAG | provide a patched binary to the CSSU? :) |
| 13:36.22 | timeless_w7ip | ... |
| 13:36.35 | timeless_w7ip | i rarely provide patched binaries |
| 13:36.37 | MohammadAG | I'll take that as a no |
| 13:36.46 | timeless_w7ip | although i have at times been known to provide patchers for binaries |
| 13:36.57 | *** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@dhcp-095-096-049-244.chello.nl) |
| 13:37.09 | timeless_w7ip | when things just have buggy strings, it's easy |
| 13:37.17 | timeless_w7ip | when you have to actually fix logic, it's more effort than it's worth |
| 13:37.30 | lolcat | Is there a patch? |
| 13:37.53 | timeless_w7ip | the patch only fixes the logic to not be buggy wrt the boundary edge |
| 13:38.00 | timeless_w7ip | it doesn't magically enable you to have 1000 items |
| 13:38.22 | timeless_w7ip | the bug was that you could have X or X+1 depending on whether you had a first/last name present |
| 13:38.35 | timeless_w7ip | and sometimes you would get or not get an error at some point |
| 13:38.42 | *** join/#maemo zgoldberg (~zgoldberg@force.stwing.upenn.edu) |
| 13:41.20 | DocScrutinizer | bah, fixing logic is easy on binary level, if and only if you got an idea at source level of what's going on. Then just replace one (or maybe 2) OPcode by a jump to your patch which you append to end of binary |
| 13:41.51 | DocScrutinizer | of course patching ELFs isn't *that* easy |
| 13:42.16 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 13:42.29 | DocScrutinizer | as ELF isn't a plain binary format like that errr .bin? .cmd? .com? |
| 13:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | .exe?? |
| 13:44.53 | *** join/#maemo massoud (~massoud@rue92-8-88-177-204-189.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:45.01 | timeless_w7ip | doc: it helps if you understand the opcodes for the relevant format |
| 13:45.07 | timeless_w7ip | i can do that for x86 (for basic ops) |
| 13:45.13 | timeless_w7ip | i haven't wasted my time for arm |
| 13:45.17 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 13:45.44 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@alpskari.asiantuntijat.org) |
| 13:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | gcc intermediate asm listings sometimes are mad useful |
| 13:46.30 | DocScrutinizer | also quite entertaining every now and then |
| 13:47.16 | timeless_w7ip | your definition and my definition of 'useful' diverge somewhere before <here> |
| 13:47.29 | timeless_w7ip | is trying to decide how to count bugs |
| 13:47.32 | timeless_w7ip | https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AigJOFz-h_P4dE1ESTh4NkhHVGJtcmxBeHpXYmNaX1E&hl=en |
| 13:47.40 | timeless_w7ip | in case you want to play along |
| 13:47.45 | DocScrutinizer | when a 150char c++ line gets reduced to 40 char asm and ~6bytes opcode |
| 13:49.04 | DocScrutinizer | or a simple case statement blows up to 20kb of NOP plus 3 labels for the 3 cases ;-P |
| 13:49.22 | *** join/#maemo madalu (~matt@unaffiliated/madalu) |
| 13:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | (seen that in a brainfsckd modula comiler's asm listing) |
| 13:51.52 | DocScrutinizer | case X in 1) bla;; 20000) blub;; *) null;; esac |
| 13:52.41 | *** join/#maemo lucent (eshattow@Ariel.Atlantica.US.TO) |
| 13:52.42 | DocScrutinizer | -> 20k of jump landing zone list, with mostly catchall redirects for the *) case |
| 13:52.59 | DocScrutinizer | except for first and last entry |
| 13:53.03 | DocScrutinizer | XP |
| 13:53.23 | *** join/#maemo buntfalke (~nobody@unaffiliated/buntfalke) |
| 13:54.20 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: code caves |
| 13:54.20 | DocScrutinizer | of course each of the 20k entries been a full size JMP <abs_addr> opcode, so sth like 3 byte ot that machine |
| 13:54.33 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: there are always some non used spaces in binaries |
| 13:55.09 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's even more fun if you modify binary by calculating all opcodes and addresses by hand |
| 13:55.14 | DocScrutinizer | in Germany we call that Soda-bytes "Die sind einfach So Da" |
| 13:55.25 | jacekowski | like i did with fmtxd 1.3 |
| 13:55.53 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: (calculate by hand) that's how I started coding |
| 13:55.58 | DocScrutinizer | 1974 |
| 13:57.22 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: i used the CLI-flasher for windows, and no, it dosnt have the same options. |
| 13:57.48 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: the win CLI-flasher dosnt seems to be handeling the -R (reboot) option as it should |
| 13:57.51 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@ppp-93-104-108-129.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
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| 13:59.29 | DocScrutinizer | ilon: that's not a bug, that's a feature. The -R option is BS and cruft and you usually don't want it. See |
| 13:59.31 | DocScrutinizer | ~flash |
| 13:59.31 | infobot | hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 14:00.30 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: well, it was the reboot option (on OFF) that made my flash to success. |
| 14:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | errrr wut? |
| 14:01.24 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: for some reason, with the same options, the windows CLI-flasher failed, the linux one didnt. |
| 14:01.59 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:02.12 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: would reflash it just to find out EXACTLY what went wrong in windows, if this wasnt my primary phone |
| 14:02.16 | DocScrutinizer | for some reason the -R is dangerous, as you MUST NOT rebot after flashing the rootfs before flashing eMMC (if you opt for that particular sequence) |
| 14:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | ~2119 |
| 14:02.18 | infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. |
| 14:02.35 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:03.40 | flux | soo.. what is the definition "to be"? |
| 14:03.42 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi) |
| 14:03.48 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: yeah, and for some reason, leaving out the -R on win CLI-flash didnt work, while using the linux-flasher worked. |
| 14:04.44 | DocScrutinizer | ilon: you know the story of the scared little boy who kicked a powerline pole and same moment the whole town suffered a blackout? |
| 14:05.25 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: spare me the stories :) |
| 14:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe too metaphoric. So here you are: mere incidence |
| 14:05.44 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: tried every suggested approach with win CLI-flasher, none worked. |
| 14:06.03 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: what would you say was the problem then? |
| 14:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, that win that fscks up flashing, but not the flasher as such |
| 14:06.38 | ilon | might be |
| 14:06.51 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 14:06.55 | DocScrutinizer | nokiasuite been installed and driver get in the way - common failure path |
| 14:07.28 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: no pcsuite installed, only drivers are the one chipped with flasher |
| 14:07.46 | DocScrutinizer | flasher is known to break when USB got hijacked by the nokiasuite drivers |
| 14:08.23 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: tried the flasher in a virtualbox aswell, after the os-flash the phone dosnt come back (got a tail -f /var/log/messages), only reported a USB disconnect after successfully flashing |
| 14:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | there are other failure pathes, but honestly lackking win here (actually all redmond crap) I can't really comment on it |
| 14:08.39 | *** join/#maemo kwtm (~kwtm1@adsl-75-61-109-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:10.03 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:10.12 | DocScrutinizer | ilon: toldya -R after rootfs(OS) flash is dangerous |
| 14:10.45 | ilon | DocScrutinizer: same resoult w/o -R |
| 14:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | :shrug: |
| 14:11.00 | ilon | :) |
| 14:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | redmond virus |
| 14:11.09 | ilon | yeah, probably |
| 14:11.16 | ilon | i blame canada |
| 14:11.25 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~Martin@118.114.137.166) |
| 14:11.31 | DocScrutinizer | duh, winlabs moved? |
| 14:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | thought M$ is redmond still |
| 14:12.31 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
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| 14:13.04 | ilon | how does the policychange at Nokia affect their development of maemo? did they stoped it completly? |
| 14:13.52 | timeless_w7ip | maemo was dead ages ago :) |
| 14:13.57 | timeless_w7ip | maemo became meego |
| 14:14.01 | timeless_w7ip | and meego isn't dead |
| 14:14.04 | timeless_w7ip | (yet) |
| 14:14.14 | *** join/#maemo drussell (~dave@91.189.88.12) |
| 14:14.35 | SpeedEvil | It's just pining for the fjoords. |
| 14:14.40 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: ages would be a little longer than reality, PR1.3 wasnt that long ago |
| 14:15.57 | timeless_w7ip | ilon: um... |
| 14:16.09 | timeless_w7ip | pr1.3 took its sweet time getting into your hands |
| 14:16.25 | timeless_w7ip | but that doesn't mean significant work for it was done in recent member |
| 14:16.29 | timeless_w7ip | s/member/memory/ |
| 14:16.35 | *** join/#maemo MOUD (~chatzilla@89.17.105.109) |
| 14:16.41 | MOUD | Hello |
| 14:17.00 | timeless_w7ip | moud: i don |
| 14:17.07 | timeless_w7ip | 't suppose i could get you to use a lowercase nick? |
| 14:17.21 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@johnxx.xen.prgmr.com) |
| 14:17.39 | CRASHANDDIEHAHA | BETTAH? |
| 14:17.42 | timeless_w7ip | thank you for not shouting. |
| 14:17.54 | timeless_w7ip | adds haha to /ignore |
| 14:18.12 | MOUD | timeless_w7ip: im sorry but no. |
| 14:18.20 | crashanddie | got a headache, timely? |
| 14:18.22 | timeless_w7ip | yes |
| 14:18.33 | crashanddie | aww |
| 14:18.43 | crashanddie | plays the worlds tiniest violin, just for you. |
| 14:18.55 | crashanddie | s/lds/ld's/ |
| 14:18.58 | timeless_w7ip | :) |
| 14:19.26 | timeless_w7ip | (and yes, i realize was going to complain about that) |
| 14:20.25 | *** join/#maemo MOUD_ (~chatzilla@94.187.17.253) |
| 14:20.51 | crashanddie | hah, and I bet you just accidentally a whole coke bottle, too, no? |
| 14:21.14 | timeless_w7ip | what meme is that? |
| 14:22.05 | MOUD | so, can anyone help me? |
| 14:22.08 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: still isnt an answer to the question if they'll halt development. |
| 14:22.23 | timeless_w7ip | on what? |
| 14:22.33 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: maemo / meego |
| 14:22.39 | timeless_w7ip | you didn't ask that! |
| 14:22.41 | timeless_w7ip | you asked about maemo |
| 14:22.47 | ilon | ok, i asked about maemo |
| 14:22.47 | timeless_w7ip | and i said that maemo's life had already ended |
| 14:22.54 | timeless_w7ip | i.e. it did not affect it |
| 14:22.57 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: are you sure about that? |
| 14:23.04 | ilon | since they still market phones with maemo |
| 14:23.06 | timeless_w7ip | dunno, i used to work for maemo devices |
| 14:23.08 | MOUD | timeless_w7ip: I have my router and I would like to crack the Wep key, how can I do that with my n900? |
| 14:23.10 | timeless_w7ip | now i work for meego devices |
| 14:23.19 | timeless_w7ip | perhaps there's a secret memo from my employer that i missed? |
| 14:23.24 | timeless_w7ip | it's possible |
| 14:23.29 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: tssk |
| 14:23.48 | crashanddie | MOUD, get the injection drivers, get a copy of neopwn too if you want to be lame |
| 14:23.48 | timeless_w7ip | moud: same way you would w/ any other linux thing |
| 14:24.03 | lcuk | ilon, MeeGo is a Linux Foundation project, Nokia have special focus on the handset, but the project has no bearing on any individual company, infact you yourself could help to bring it up. |
| 14:24.15 | timeless_w7ip | personally, i'd use my n900 to find the manufacturer's pdf and then read it |
| 14:24.23 | MOUD | crashanddie: could you tell me where I can get those please? |
| 14:24.27 | timeless_w7ip | then i'd reset the key and reconfigure the router |
| 14:24.31 | crashanddie | MOUD, No. |
| 14:24.33 | timeless_w7ip | that'd be a much better use of my time and my n900 :) |
| 14:24.43 | ilon | lcuk: yeah i know |
| 14:24.55 | MOUD | crashanddie: ok, thanks for the info btw :) |
| 14:25.05 | ilon | lcuk: but before the change on CEO at Nokia, they actually participated in the development afaik? |
| 14:25.05 | timeless_w7ip | aww, you didn't like my answer! |
| 14:25.28 | timeless_w7ip | ilon: oddly, i think we're more involved in MeeGo now than we were before the MS annoucement |
| 14:25.40 | timeless_w7ip | but note that the CEO change was somewhere around August |
| 14:25.44 | timeless_w7ip | whereas the MS announcement was Feb |
| 14:26.03 | lcuk | ilon, I have seen more active open development and pushing for a really usable Nokia handset more recently than ever before |
| 14:26.04 | MOUD | timeless_w7ip: did u talk with me? |
| 14:26.09 | lcuk | see focus on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition for principle example |
| 14:26.31 | ilon | timeless_w7ip: well, that pretty much answer my thoughts :) |
| 14:26.32 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:26.43 | timeless_w7ip | moud: yes |
| 14:27.03 | timeless_w7ip | <timeless_w7ip> moud: same way you would w/ any other linux thing |
| 14:27.06 | timeless_w7ip | and following |
| 14:27.29 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@cs78181065.pp.htv.fi) |
| 14:27.59 | ilon | timeless_w7ip / lcuk: sorry that i made such vauge / errorous questions |
| 14:28.23 | timeless_w7ip | apology accepted and appreciated |
| 14:28.33 | lcuk | ilon, :) |
| 14:29.58 | MOUD | I dont want to do that because I need to reset my DSL modem and the company will have to reconfigure it again and they are very lazy. If u call them they'll take around 5 to 7 days to come and reconfigure it. |
| 14:30.19 | timeless_w7ip | moud: read the manual |
| 14:30.29 | timeless_w7ip | perhaps there's an ethernet port and a well known password |
| 14:30.47 | timeless_w7ip | really, manuals are your friend, and your n900 can help you get and read them :) |
| 14:31.03 | crashanddie | there's probably a reset method, button, pull the power plug out 3 or 4 times, whatever |
| 14:31.19 | MOUD | timeless_w7ip: i just want to try wep cracking on my n900, nothing more. |
| 14:31.22 | crashanddie | so please stop bullshitting us, and just say you want to break your neighbour's wifi network |
| 14:31.25 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:31.44 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:31.56 | crashanddie | but sorry bru, the hot chick living next door doesn't keep naked pictures of herself on a shared drive |
| 14:31.58 | timeless_w7ip | and i find it rather odd that your model can't properly retrieve settings on its own |
| 14:32.17 | timeless_w7ip | moud: also, your n900 can take you to google |
| 14:32.29 | timeless_w7ip | from there you can read all about any subject you like, including wep cracking |
| 14:32.40 | MOUD | im doing that already |
| 14:32.50 | *** join/#maemo tekonivel (~user@ns.lasipalatsi.fi) |
| 14:32.57 | timeless_w7ip | moud: there's an old addage: |
| 14:33.09 | timeless_w7ip | Search First. Ask Questions Later |
| 14:33.14 | timeless_w7ip | please respect it |
| 14:34.06 | MOUD | timeless_w7ip: ok, i will. |
| 14:34.21 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
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| 14:46.35 | timeless_w7ip | sp3000: got an estimated time of departure? |
| 14:51.59 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:54.41 | MOUD | is there going to be a new patch for maemo? |
| 14:58.13 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-103-78.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:59.27 | chem|st | MOUD: there is the CSSU... but no *official nokia* patch yet |
| 15:00.06 | MOUD | chem|st: thanks, i'll check if there's any changelog for it |
| 15:00.20 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:00.58 | chem|st | MOUD: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog |
| 15:01.38 | MOUD | chem|st: checking now :) |
| 15:02.59 | ZogG | who does understand korean? there is new samsung linux based phone |
| 15:03.36 | FauxFaux | ZogG: Koreans. |
| 15:03.48 | ZogG | FauxFaux oh right |
| 15:05.48 | *** join/#maemo Alejandro (~root@190.202.83.20) |
| 15:07.45 | ZogG | Samsung will ship SLP phones from 2011 |
| 15:07.46 | ZogG | http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 |
| 15:08.57 | timeless_w7ip | departs |
| 15:09.24 | ZogG | MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer lcuk ^ check the pdf |
| 15:09.37 | lcuk | why? |
| 15:09.56 | lcuk | pdf does not work well through vnc |
| 15:11.31 | ZogG | it's presentetion for samsung new mobile linux os with LiMo and it's device independent |
| 15:14.48 | MohammadAG | meh |
| 15:16.35 | ZogG | MohammadAG, didn't like it? |
| 15:16.54 | ZogG | debian based. but istead of Qt efl =) |
| 15:17.14 | ZogG | e17 =) |
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| 15:40.11 | MohammadAG | ZogG, I just hate samsung :) |
| 15:40.36 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, looking at hd-launcher's code, it seems you can define the "cached" image that shows up when you click an app in the .desktop file |
| 15:42.03 | MohammadAG | #define HD_DESKTOP_ENTRY_IGNORE_LOWMEM "X-Maemo-Ignore-Lowmem" <-- this is new |
| 15:42.13 | MohammadAG | and #define HD_DESKTOP_ENTRY_SWITCHER_ICON "X-Maemo-Switcher-Icon" o_O |
| 15:43.35 | MohammadAG | I think you can disable live windows, for whatever reason |
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| 15:44.06 | ChoHag | Can I make my n900 (temporarily) export a file as its mass storage device instead of the whole flash drive? |
| 15:45.38 | ZogG | MohammadAG h/qw independent |
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| 15:51.59 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, added to http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format#Maemo_extension_keys |
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| 15:55.38 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:55.38 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:55.38 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:55.42 | MohammadAG | riiight, what? |
| 15:56.38 | Macer | the n900 is the firefly of cell phones |
| 15:57.14 | SpeedEvil | I found firefly generally annoying. |
| 15:57.51 | MohammadAG | I'm confused, so live windows are actually screenshots that keep on being generated? |
| 15:58.41 | lcuk | MohammadAG, that is what compositing is |
| 15:59.06 | lcuk | apps draw onto a texture |
| 15:59.14 | MohammadAG | lcuk, I don't suppose those are being stored on the file system, so why would it attempt to look for them |
| 15:59.21 | lcuk | which is then taken and shown on the main framebuffer |
| 15:59.38 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Isn't that for the statup splash? |
| 15:59.49 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: The fake 'look it started quickly' thing? |
| 15:59.53 | MohammadAG | no, that's X-App-Loading-Image |
| 16:00.08 | FireFly | love you too, SpeedEvil |
| 16:00.17 | MohammadAG | I'm talking about X-Maemo-Switcher-Icon |
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| 16:05.20 | SpeedEvil | http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/03/24/1145245/IPhone-4-Survives-1000-Foot-Fall-From-Plane |
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| 16:06.49 | Macer | hahahaha |
| 16:06.56 | Macer | built to last |
| 16:07.07 | Macer | but can it handle a blender? |
| 16:11.21 | Macer | http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/03/24/1145245/IPhone-4-Survives-1000-Foot-Fall |
| 16:11.41 | Macer | i need to get a case like that for my g2 |
| 16:12.37 | lcuk | Macer, actually, yit blends |
| 16:12.40 | lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI |
| 16:12.58 | lcuk | gets better signal afterwards too |
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| 16:13.12 | SpeedEvil | checks to see if his submission has been accepted. |
| 16:13.21 | SpeedEvil | Meh - no blended n900 |
| 16:13.54 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, ask them |
| 16:13.58 | Macer | SpeedEvil: the n900 would have defense lasers that destroy the blender |
| 16:14.01 | SpeedEvil | I did. |
| 16:14.03 | lcuk | I think they tried to though |
| 16:14.15 | SpeedEvil | I submitted the n900 as a suggestion of stuff to blend. |
| 16:14.16 | lcuk | and it was too tough |
| 16:14.25 | lcuk | public submission/voting list? |
| 16:14.29 | Macer | lies! haha |
| 16:14.34 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 16:14.43 | lcuk | where link? |
| 16:15.02 | lcuk | 419 people here would like to see it and thousands more on all the other channels and twitter and facebook etc |
| 16:15.21 | Macer | haha |
| 16:15.33 | Macer | they shouldnt blend them |
| 16:15.37 | Sazpaimon_ | is there a gles equivalent to libgtkglext1-dev on maemo |
| 16:15.38 | MohammadAG | 417, ChanServ and infobot can't watch, they're too young |
| 16:15.45 | Macer | i am sure they will be rare soon |
| 16:15.51 | Sazpaimon_ | or is libgles2-sgx-img-dev suitable enough |
| 16:16.04 | SpeedEvil | http://www.willitblend.com/ - link on left 'suggest stuff to blend' |
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| 16:17.20 | jaska | they should blend a cityman 900 |
| 16:17.43 | lcuk | " |
| 16:17.44 | lcuk | Because I do not think it will. |
| 16:17.44 | lcuk | N900 is tougher than any of the lesser devices. |
| 16:17.44 | lcuk | thousands of enthusiasts worldwide will enjoy watching :D" |
| 16:18.02 | lcuk | (they ask why you want to see it blended) |
| 16:18.09 | lcuk | http://www.willitblend.com/suggestions.aspx |
| 16:18.58 | lcuk | infact I might submit another one "Because Macer doesn't think we should" |
| 16:19.00 | vldcnst | Thanks for your suggestion! |
| 16:20.07 | lcuk | according to jokes heard, the rest of the tech world would not believe N900 will even fit in the blender, let alone be turned into smoke |
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| 17:10.36 | bash` | hi all, since a couple of weeks the textedits on my N900 are black (instead of white) and I cannot read the text. anyone has an idea of what happen? |
| 17:12.13 | pupnik_ | bash`: in the shell? |
| 17:12.23 | bash` | pupnik_: no, the UIs |
| 17:12.33 | BCMM | i think he may mean all gtk text entry widgets |
| 17:12.46 | BCMM | to which i'd say try another theme |
| 17:12.50 | bash` | BCMM: yes, the right way to explain is that |
| 17:12.56 | bash` | BCMM: how to reinstall the default? |
| 17:13.28 | MohammadAG | just set the theme back? |
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| 17:13.45 | bash` | if this helps, doesn't happen with every apps, but only with someone |
| 17:14.07 | bash` | MohammadAG: unfortunately doesn't work |
| 17:14.22 | MohammadAG | Qt or Gtk apps? |
| 17:14.38 | bash` | MohammadAG: good catch, PyQt |
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| 17:15.30 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 17:15.44 | MohammadAG | try apt-get --reinstall install libqt4-gui python2.5-qt4-gui |
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| 17:17.37 | bash` | MohammadAG: didn't work :( |
| 17:18.02 | MohammadAG | which app is it? |
| 17:18.16 | bash` | smscon-editor, happen with GRead too |
| 17:19.44 | MohammadAG | hmm, no ideas, sorry |
| 17:20.02 | bash` | MohammadAG: ok...thanks anyway |
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| 17:20.53 | bash` | MohammadAG: I'm reinstalling n900ftp |
| 17:21.15 | bash` | I disinstalled it recently and it needs more pyqt libs |
| 17:22.20 | MohammadAG | hmm, yeah, could be python2.5-qt4-maemo5 |
| 17:22.29 | MohammadAG | or libqt4-maemo5, since I think those sets styles |
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| 17:31.29 | bash` | nothing... |
| 17:34.48 | drussell | something... |
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| 17:57.53 | Zevv | Hi all. Running maemo hackers on a n810, my 'dark grey' in osso-xterm is pitch black |
| 17:58.01 | Zevv | is there a way to configure palettes ? |
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| 17:59.58 | Zevv | This seems to be bug 7164 |
| 18:00.01 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/7164 osso-xterm dark grey color shown as black |
| 18:00.03 | Zevv | marked as solved, put probably not my version |
| 18:00.11 | Zevv | yeah, exactly, that one |
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| 18:00.24 | Zevv | great bot |
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| 18:09.12 | MohammadAG | Zevv, just apply http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/vte/commit/8ba1088e3bf0e9da21b251f2971222a0ed0950c1 on osso-xterm's source |
| 18:09.23 | MohammadAG | then builds |
| 18:09.25 | MohammadAG | build* |
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| 18:11.05 | Zevv | MohammadAG: yeah, I found that out just a few secs ago |
| 18:11.11 | Zevv | too bad i don't have the sdk at hand |
| 18:11.17 | Zevv | was hoping for the easy way out, of course :) |
| 18:12.21 | MohammadAG | No N810 here, so I don't have the Diablo SDK :/ |
| 18:12.57 | Zevv | np |
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| 18:23.51 | dotblank | so I heard t-mobile is replacing all 3g handsets |
| 18:23.57 | dotblank | will that affect the n900? |
| 18:26.56 | wmarone_ | it will, the N900 will not have 3G service in the United States |
| 18:27.07 | wmarone_ | well |
| 18:27.21 | wmarone_ | that will happen IF the acquisition goes through |
| 18:27.47 | wmarone_ | which will probably take more than a year |
| 18:28.00 | dotblank | oh ok |
| 18:28.11 | dotblank | cause if that happened recently that would suck |
| 18:28.32 | dotblank | but a year still might be too soon |
| 18:28.45 | dotblank | as the n900 seems to be last of its kind really |
| 18:29.21 | wmarone_ | yes, it does |
| 18:29.36 | wmarone_ | but I'm on AT&T's 2.5G service as it is, so no real impact for me |
| 18:30.17 | Zevv | this N9 gossip, is there any truth in that? |
| 18:30.47 | wmarone_ | unknown |
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| 18:30.58 | Zevv | stick with my n810 then |
| 18:33.00 | ZogG | i'll stick with my n910 =P |
| 18:33.05 | Zevv | :) |
| 18:34.28 | jacekowski | Zevv: there will be n9 but nobody knows for sure if it will have wp7 or meego |
| 18:34.39 | jacekowski | Zevv: or only meego phone nokia will release is n950 |
| 18:34.40 | Zevv | auch |
| 18:34.51 | Zevv | wp7 |
| 18:34.59 | jacekowski | wp7 isn't bad |
| 18:35.05 | jacekowski | it's bit limited |
| 18:35.09 | dotblank | I will have the n900 with the cssu |
| 18:35.12 | jacekowski | but less limited than ios |
| 18:35.25 | jacekowski | and you can jailbreak it |
| 18:35.43 | Zevv | hmm, seems that it's so wrong to even need to break your device |
| 18:36.04 | dotblank | yea thats a bit unnerving |
| 18:36.05 | Zevv | having linux is one of my main reasons for using the n series |
| 18:36.10 | jacekowski | wmarone_: why would they get rid of 3g? |
| 18:36.29 | dotblank | I can develop on my phone without having to get a developer edition |
| 18:36.30 | jacekowski | wmarone_: or disable old working transmitters |
| 18:36.52 | Sazpaimon_ | so the android NDK has GLESv1_CM.so, and maemo has GLES_CM.so |
| 18:36.55 | Sazpaimon_ | are these the same file? |
| 18:37.11 | dotblank | what if they are? |
| 18:37.22 | jacekowski | no |
| 18:37.26 | wmarone_ | jacekowski: IIRC, AT&T wants to use the frequency for LTE |
| 18:37.45 | Sazpaimon_ | okay, not "same file", but are they both gles v1 libraries |
| 18:37.55 | jacekowski | LTE is market ready? |
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| 18:38.09 | wmarone_ | jacekowski: well, they need to roll it out to stop being behind Verizon |
| 18:38.12 | Sazpaimon_ | meaning, can i link an application using GLES_CM.so when it originally is looking for GLESv1_CM.so, |
| 18:38.19 | chx | wmarone_: maybe. or they are afraid t-mobile will succeed in their 4g efforts and be a significant competitor |
| 18:38.24 | wmarone_ | And, heh, MetroPCS |
| 18:38.38 | jacekowski | wmarone_: well, who needs LTE in first place |
| 18:38.40 | wmarone_ | chx: I don't think AT&T was worried about that |
| 18:38.51 | jacekowski | wmarone_: plain old 3g can deliver like 20MBps |
| 18:38.54 | wmarone_ | jacekowski: faster wireless data access is a good thing |
| 18:39.00 | Sazpaimon_ | i guess I'll just try it and see |
| 18:39.35 | wmarone_ | that and having Verizon and AT&T move to a compatible protocol would be nice (maybe, if we can get some carrier-iindependent handsets...) |
| 18:39.35 | jacekowski | wmarone_: 42MBps |
| 18:39.53 | wmarone_ | jacekowski: right, I believe "4G" is reserved for LTE Advanced or something |
| 18:40.01 | wmarone_ | which goes even faster |
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| 18:40.10 | jacekowski | wmarone_: wireless can't be fast |
| 18:40.17 | Zevv | jacekowski: anything officialy known about the N950 ? |
| 18:40.29 | jacekowski | Zevv: some bits of information |
| 18:40.31 | jacekowski | Zevv: not a lot |
| 18:40.41 | Zevv | waiting then |
| 18:40.45 | Zevv | thauta: |
| 18:40.48 | Zevv | no, I mean: thanks |
| 18:41.06 | wmarone_ | jacekowski: arguing this with me is largely fruitless, since I don't really have any control over it... |
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| 19:09.37 | rm_work | hey anyone here that speaks french? |
| 19:10.51 | rm_work | natively? |
| 19:10.53 | rm_work | :P |
| 19:13.03 | pupnik_ | je parles like charles |
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| 19:13.27 | GeneralAntilles | rm_work: yes. |
| 19:14.44 | rm_work | lol |
| 19:15.01 | rm_work | need to know if french uses ellipses |
| 19:15.17 | rm_work | translating a sentence with an elipses |
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| 19:35.21 | GeneralAntilles | Everybody seems to be ignoring the fact that an architectural decision was made unilaterally (and behind closed doors) by Intel. |
| 19:35.37 | GeneralAntilles | Whatever the other issues involved. That's a problem when the governance documentation says that shouldn't happen. |
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| 19:37.31 | mece | GeneralAntilles, which descision? Are we talking about the tracker thing? |
| 19:39.13 | Kaadlajk | that mailing list thread is really depressing |
| 19:39.32 | *** join/#maemo cymacs (~cymacs@a91-154-1-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:39.36 | mece | Kaadlajk, Have an url? |
| 19:40.13 | Kaadlajk | mece: it is the tracker thingie, it has changed subject so many times that it is hard to link |
| 19:40.51 | mece | ah yes. Last I read on it was the "Nokia was not involved in this decision" comment |
| 19:42.20 | GeneralAntilles | mece: yes. |
| 19:42.33 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@97.8.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 19:42.50 | GeneralAntilles | mece: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/482162.html |
| 19:42.54 | GeneralAntilles | That one's interesting, too. |
| 19:43.15 | GeneralAntilles | Technical discussions aside, that's really what worries me. |
| 19:45.18 | dotblank | yikes that is scary |
| 19:47.19 | GeneralAntilles | But it's not particularly unsurprising given the project so far. |
| 19:47.41 | GeneralAntilles | Makes me yearn for Maemo. At least you know where you stand there (even if the position sucks). |
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| 19:53.03 | alterego | Hurp, there hostility from a lot more than @nokia.com people. |
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| 19:53.47 | alterego | I think everyone coming from maemo is pretty disappointed and not just us, there's a few other people that felt the move was a bit of a crap one. |
| 19:55.05 | mece | Stskeeps ftw http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/482172.html |
| 19:56.09 | vldcnst | Any idea how to resolve "input/output error" while trying to mount a windows/cifs share? |
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| 19:59.19 | wmarone_ | alterego: are you reading the !@nokia.com bit as hostility coming from nokia people? |
| 19:59.46 | alterego | wmarone_: that's the impression it gives isn't it? Or am I missing something? |
| 20:00.20 | wmarone_ | I think it was meant as a not, IE from people not @nokia.com (none-too-subtle jab at the Intel folks is how I read it) |
| 20:00.37 | alterego | Oh, |
| 20:00.39 | wmarone_ | and considering Arjan's responses, I'm not terribly surprised |
| 20:00.47 | alterego | Yeah, I must have misinterpreted that. |
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| 20:21.05 | jMCg | Hey folks, I'm trying to find a WiFi password for one of the connections I've got stored - unfortunately n900's connection manager doesn't seem to have an option to show me the password. |
| 20:21.13 | jMCg | Where else can I find it? |
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| 20:22.07 | *** part/#maemo bash` (~bash@archlinux/developer/bash) |
| 20:23.35 | lcuk | jMCg, walk over to the router and see if there is a little yellow postit note, or just ask the owner. |
| 20:23.39 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net) |
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| 20:26.53 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: what happened? i missed something, I feel |
| 20:27.03 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: what is all the noise about mailing lists and Intel and Meego stuff |
| 20:27.35 | GeneralAntilles | rm_work: Arjan came out and said. "We're switching to these technologies." |
| 20:27.57 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
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| 20:28.47 | Proteous | jMCg, probably stored in gconf |
| 20:28.58 | internetishard | What's the best email client for maemo? |
| 20:29.01 | GeneralAntilles | http://mwkn.net/2011/11/devel.html |
| 20:29.08 | Proteous | outlook |
| 20:29.18 | internetishard | ?! |
| 20:29.21 | Proteous | :P |
| 20:29.45 | GeneralAntilles | rm_work: basically, Intel is apparently making closed-door unilateral architecture decisions to remove Nokia-backed technology from MeeGo. |
| 20:31.19 | SpeedEvil1 | So does this mean basically nothing for the upcoming planned 'meego' device - except that any work on those subsystems is now going to have to be internal? |
| 20:32.56 | jMCg | gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP | grep passp |
| 20:34.29 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 20:34.30 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: ok, but from what i can tell, they're changing them to things that are OPEN. so... why is that bad? it's like they're smacking nokia for all the closed-source / proprietary crap they've pulled in the past |
| 20:34.37 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: unless i'm missing something |
| 20:35.01 | wmarone_ | rm_work: nothing nokia source was closed, last I checked |
| 20:35.02 | GAN900 | rm_work, Tracker is open. |
| 20:35.11 | rm_work | and also ridiculously bad |
| 20:35.31 | rm_work | tracker is the source of a ton of problems IIRC >_> |
| 20:35.39 | wmarone_ | or rather, nothing that isn't N900-specific |
| 20:35.43 | rm_work | would be nice if they could get rid of it entirely |
| 20:36.06 | GAN900 | The big issue is the unilateral Intel arch decision |
| 20:36.14 | wmarone_ | sure, and apparently they intend on doing so. but it would be nice if they did it in the open |
| 20:36.17 | rm_work | moving to a well-known standard like Evolution / EvolutionSync sounds like one of the best decisions i've heard out of that project in a while |
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| 20:36.26 | GAN900 | rm_work, that doesn't seem to be the consensus for MeeGo |
| 20:36.33 | rm_work | :/ |
| 20:36.52 | rm_work | Well, I wish they hadn't switched to RPM, but that was a concern for like... forever ago |
| 20:36.54 | GAN900 | rm_work, again the technical stuff isn't the core issue |
| 20:37.04 | rm_work | it's not that WHAT but the HOW? |
| 20:37.28 | rm_work | so, it's not the decisions they made (possibly good ones?) but that they made them without nokia consulatation? |
| 20:37.40 | rm_work | *consultation |
| 20:37.45 | GAN900 | It's the Intel half of the arch team making closed-door unilateral decisions |
| 20:37.55 | rm_work | well, there *is* no Nokia half |
| 20:37.56 | rm_work | right? |
| 20:37.58 | GAN900 | That's not how it works. |
| 20:38.01 | rm_work | so... yeah |
| 20:38.05 | GAN900 | No, there are two people from Nokia. |
| 20:38.13 | GAN900 | Neither of them were consulted. :) |
| 20:38.32 | GAN900 | People aren't making mountains out of molehills here. |
| 20:39.08 | Proteous | damn you GAN900 and your reason |
| 20:39.11 | rm_work | just read a post that said it was two people, Arjan from Intel and someone from Nokia, and the Nokia person had resigned a bit ago, so it was just the one guy |
| 20:39.13 | Proteous | we are trying to get riled up here |
| 20:39.51 | rm_work | GAN900: it was the post you linked: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/482162.html |
| 20:39.56 | Proteous | we make mountains out of mountains! |
| 20:40.24 | GAN900 | rm_work, that's the TSG, not the arch team. :) |
| 20:40.28 | rm_work | ah |
| 20:41.07 | GAN900 | There's a major anti @nokia attitude issue emanating from Intel |
| 20:41.16 | internetishard | anyone have the smtp auth failed on outgoing gmail in the default email client? |
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| 20:42.39 | rm_work | could it be that nokia is wtf |
| 20:46.06 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 20:48.38 | internetishard | how do you merge two mail accounts? |
| 20:48.50 | lcuk | cat |
| 20:50.02 | internetishard | lcuk, really? |
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| 20:50.36 | internetishard | I want to delete the email account, then make a new one, then import all of the old emails (but they get deleted, I think, if the account is deleted) |
| 20:51.05 | lcuk | internetishard, no I was joking. |
| 20:51.29 | internetishard | yeah I know, the "really" was directed at the joke |
| 20:51.31 | rm_work | internetishard: system mail accounts? IMAP accounts? |
| 20:51.50 | internetishard | imap from the default n900 mail client |
| 20:51.56 | rm_work | theres an imap_copy tool in linux... |
| 20:51.58 | rm_work | erk |
| 20:52.04 | rm_work | dunno if you can do it ON your n900 |
| 20:52.12 | nidO | wheres the problem then, all the mail will be retained server-side |
| 20:52.19 | rm_work | but if it's IMAP, it's all serverside anyway |
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| 20:52.27 | rm_work | what nidO said |
| 20:52.39 | internetishard | okay, the reason I'm doing this is making a new gmail account from scratch fixes my outgoing mail problems, while no combination or change of settings on the existing one does |
| 20:53.14 | rm_work | you're just deleting and re-adding the same gmail account, right? |
| 20:53.18 | internetishard | nidO: how do I get it to download all of it again then? |
| 20:53.21 | internetishard | yep |
| 20:53.25 | rm_work | it just will. |
| 20:53.28 | rm_work | it's IMAP. |
| 20:53.34 | nidO | just re-add the account and all the mail will get re-downloaded |
| 20:53.40 | nidO | its all still sitting in the gmail acct |
| 20:53.41 | rm_work | only POP3 does download&delete |
| 20:53.51 | rm_work | IMAP keeps it all on the server |
| 20:55.30 | internetishard | okay |
| 20:55.42 | internetishard | it seems to be downloading more and more of the old mail |
| 20:55.43 | *** join/#maemo onekenthomas (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:55.47 | internetishard | I'll check later if it gets it all |
| 20:57.01 | *** join/#maemo onekenthomas (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:59.01 | rm_work | it should only download the top 100 headers or so |
| 20:59.05 | rm_work | maybe more depending on settings |
| 20:59.30 | rm_work | it will download more when you try to scroll back though... i mean, it is all *there*, just the mail client won't be retrieving *everything* |
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| 21:01.20 | rm_work | LOLWUT, i had never seen or even heard this kind of thing existed: http://vimeo.com/12556898 |
| 21:02.58 | GeneralAntilles | rm_work: so old. |
| 21:03.05 | rm_work | yeah, i imagine |
| 21:03.17 | rm_work | but how did i never know it existed |
| 21:03.58 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AAF21.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:06.14 | rm_work | where was the site that had me and lcuk and a bunch of people talking about the n900? :P |
| 21:06.45 | lcuk | http://n900-mobile.co.uk |
| 21:07.10 | rm_work | lol |
| 21:08.25 | joga | ...up to 24 apps? |
| 21:09.08 | SpeedEvil | 24 apps? Unpossible! |
| 21:09.23 | lcuk | 24? |
| 21:10.37 | *** join/#maemo renato (~renato@187.113.121.19) |
| 21:11.23 | rm_work | :P |
| 21:11.54 | rm_work | i feel like i should save that video somewhere for posterity, because that site will probably go down at some point, possibly soonish |
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| 21:18.57 | GeneralAntilles | All of those stupid Wikia websites seems to bring WebKit browsers to their knees. |
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| 22:05.51 | Sazpaimon_ | anyone use the rdesktop port? |
| 22:06.04 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 22:06.09 | Sazpaimon_ | i cant get the fullscreen icon to go away |
| 22:06.37 | Sazpaimon_ | it makes it impossible to use the corner of the screen |
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| 22:12.51 | merlin1991 | Sazpaimon_: I can't either, that seems to be a "feature" |
| 22:13.49 | internetishard | what's a good way to automate a password prompt on the n900? |
| 22:14.20 | internetishard | This is so I can mount sshfs quickly |
| 22:16.09 | SpeedEvil | setup keys properly, o you don't need passwords |
| 22:16.12 | alterego | use an rsa key .. |
| 22:16.42 | internetishard | Oh, I'm trying to use two factor |
| 22:22.15 | BCMM | internetishard: ssh keys? |
| 22:22.17 | BCMM | oh, right |
| 22:22.32 | BCMM | so, what's the point of two factors if you're just going to store both of them? |
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| 22:22.51 | internetishard | both of what? |
| 22:22.55 | internetishard | a password and a key? |
| 22:23.10 | internetishard | so that I'm not fucked if someone gets ahold of my key |
| 22:23.17 | lcuk | have we sussed out how to do fingerprint recognition on multitouch screens yet? |
| 22:23.26 | Arkenoi | is playing with e7.. appears that web browser is *much* more smooth there :-( |
| 22:23.33 | lcuk | or is the resolution not great enough? |
| 22:24.01 | lcuk | Arkenoi, lower the screen resolution and you make it easier to do stuff |
| 22:24.22 | BCMM | heh. pretty sure both the resolution and the maximum number of simultaneous touches detected are an order of magnitude too low |
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| 22:25.04 | BCMM | internetishard: but you are proposing storing the password on the n900, to automate things, right? |
| 22:25.19 | internetishard | oh no |
| 22:25.25 | internetishard | I want to automate the mount process |
| 22:25.28 | wmarone | HEH |
| 22:25.29 | wmarone | http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/google-keeping-honeycomb-source-code-on-ice-says-its-not-ready/ |
| 22:25.31 | internetishard | so it has the key and when I click mount or wahtever |
| 22:25.32 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: more like 3 orders |
| 22:25.36 | internetishard | I want to be prompted for the password |
| 22:25.44 | Arkenoi | and keyboard is definitely better as well :-( |
| 22:25.57 | BCMM | SpeedEvil: for touch points, definitely. i have no idea about resolution |
| 22:26.03 | BCMM | SpeedEvil: but at least 2, yes |
| 22:26.04 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48F0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:26.18 | BCMM | internetishard: ah, i see. so not really "automate" at all |
| 22:26.53 | BCMM | internetishard: so you're using a key with a passphrase, rather than using normal ssh keyboard auth? |
| 22:27.12 | internetishard | yeah, it is key + pass auth (two factor) |
| 22:27.25 | BCMM | how long is your password? |
| 22:27.27 | internetishard | and I'm pretty sure sshfs works on maemo, but I haven't tried yet |
| 22:27.40 | internetishard | like 8 chars with specials |
| 22:27.56 | BCMM | keeping the key safe doesn't seem like a bit deal, really |
| 22:28.05 | Arkenoi | text looks like shit due to low dpi |
| 22:28.14 | BCMM | i mean, use a key just for the n900, erase the key from the server if the n900 is lost |
| 22:28.36 | BCMM | as for compromising the n900 without stealing it; if that happens, your keystrokes can be logged anyway |
| 22:28.36 | internetishard | n900 doesn't have great security, though eh? |
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| 22:28.42 | *** part/#maemo fserver4 (~ircap@18.pool80-103-176.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 22:28.44 | internetishard | I mean, I've been meaning to get iptables on it |
| 22:28.45 | BCMM | (see last line) |
| 22:29.06 | BCMM | internetishard: there appears to be a slight misconception here |
| 22:29.27 | BCMM | setting up firewall rules to block ports is a poor substitute for simply not having servers listening in the first place |
| 22:29.44 | internetishard | for sure |
| 22:30.02 | BCMM | but in any case, if the n900 gets pwned, your passphrase can be logged |
| 22:30.43 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:30.48 | BCMM | i can't really see a situation that the passphrase would prevent other than your n900 physically being stolen by somebody who uses the key before you get a chance to take it's pair off the server |
| 22:31.53 | internetishard | It didn't seem utterly useless in this case since the server's data is important |
| 22:32.32 | BCMM | either you trust the n900 enough to log in to the server using it, or you don't... |
| 22:32.47 | BCMM | also, i still don't see how iptables will help to "secure" the n900 |
| 22:33.21 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@p579A508C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:33.38 | SpeedEvil | If you allow logging in from only your local wifi net,forex |
| 22:34.41 | BCMM | of course, but he seems to feel it's insecure by default or until a firewall is put in place |
| 22:34.55 | BCMM | whereas the measure you suggest is still not as good as just not installing an sshd |
| 22:35.14 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 22:35.21 | MohammadAG | heh, Google won't dump Android 3.0's source code on the interwebz |
| 22:35.43 | BCMM | i could be missing something in this case, but a lot of people feel that way by being used to windows xp |
| 22:36.01 | pupnik_ | is the text in lower-left and lower-right readable on your n900? http://i.imgur.com/MAqJi.png |
| 22:36.19 | BCMM | which was, indeed, not suitable for use on the internet without a NAT router or 3rd-party firewall software |
| 22:36.20 | pupnik_ | or would you want an even bigger font, darker background... |
| 22:38.08 | *** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:38.27 | n900evil | pupnik_: repost |
| 22:39.08 | pupnik_ | http://i.imgur.com/MAqJi.png |
| 22:40.33 | SpeedEvil | It's basically readable in good conditions. |
| 22:41.50 | nidO | MohammadAG: curious to know what the real reason is, really |
| 22:43.06 | pupnik_ | dunno SpeedEvil - i think the purple and orange needs to be brighter |
| 22:43.29 | wmarone | my guess is "exclusivity" cause it'll appear on all sorts of cheaper devices once it hits the AOSP |
| 22:43.40 | GeneralAntilles | Teehee |
| 22:43.46 | GeneralAntilles | Android isn't open source at all. |
| 22:44.02 | Corsac | well, there's a lot of stuff which is GPL there |
| 22:44.10 | Corsac | so they don't have much choice for those |
| 22:44.31 | Corsac | well, Google can do anything it wants, but Motorola has to ship the sources for the xoom kernel, for example |
| 22:44.39 | wmarone | and that's all |
| 22:44.42 | GeneralAntilles | I don't get how people delude themselves into thinking Google is their friend (or the friend of open source). |
| 22:47.32 | SpeedEvil | It's really not googles problem if the vendors don't provide open-source. |
| 22:47.39 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~quassel@83.229.6.19) |
| 22:47.44 | MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, because the dancing android that was on engadget the other day is cute? |
| 22:47.45 | SpeedEvil | (for the GPL componenrts, where they should) |
| 22:48.11 | GeneralAntilles | It is Google's decision not to release platform source. |
| 22:48.35 | MohammadAG | in Android 3.0's case, yes |
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| 22:52.55 | Corsac | MohammadAG: and people might think google is their friend because they don't have any other friend |
| 22:53.32 | Corsac | MS, Apple, Nokia aren't exactly looking friendly right now |
| 22:54.09 | Sazpaimon_ | there also seems to be no way to zoom with rdesktop |
| 22:54.38 | Sazpaimon_ | not very good for precision clicks :/ |
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| 22:59.05 | internetishard | how do you make the indexers not look in specific dirs? |
| 23:00.20 | SpeedEvil | ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg |
| 23:00.23 | SpeedEvil | from memrory |
| 23:00.35 | SpeedEvil | Fiddle with that, and you can exclude dirs. |
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| 23:07.23 | Arkenoi | despite low screen resolution, no auto focus and no memory card, i'd switch to e7 if it could run maemo/meego. symbian is disaster, not an option anyways. |
| 23:08.18 | jacekowski | symbian isn't a disaster |
| 23:08.25 | jacekowski | symbian is very good fast os |
| 23:08.29 | jacekowski | it's just developer hostile |
| 23:08.48 | jacekowski | but if you get used to it's specifics it's really good system |
| 23:09.29 | Arkenoi | developer hostile and lacking unified communications. i use instant messaging very much and symbian sucks in that. |
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| 23:10.06 | jacekowski | only phone with that unified was n900 |
| 23:10.17 | jacekowski | and even that not so much |
| 23:10.35 | Arkenoi | have to notice there is great progress since s60r3fp2, no more "out of memory" all the way at least |
| 23:11.00 | jacekowski | symbian was running on much more resource constrained devices |
| 23:11.55 | Arkenoi | the funniest thing with that there was plenty of memory available, "memory" meant some fixed size internal allocation structures |
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| 23:12.49 | jacekowski | that was tradeoff with resource usage |
| 23:12.59 | jacekowski | symbian started off on devices that had less than 1M of ram |
| 23:13.19 | jacekowski | and it scaled up way better than any other os i've ever seen |
| 23:13.26 | Arkenoi | but installing ~50+ applications and having 500+ contacts in address book among with several "plugins" like nokia conversations rendered my old e90 almost.. well, not really unusable, but you had to know what to close before you run another thing |
| 23:13.35 | Arkenoi | and slow as hell |
| 23:14.07 | jacekowski | i had over 2k contacts in my old ngage |
| 23:14.30 | Arkenoi | i have about 1k, problems started at 500 |
| 23:14.35 | jacekowski | just because one time i messed up things and stuff got doubled |
| 23:14.42 | Arkenoi | s80 was worse, though |
| 23:14.45 | jacekowski | when syncing with gnokii |
| 23:14.57 | Arkenoi | ah, and syncing was hell all the time |
| 23:15.13 | jacekowski | but never had any problems with it |
| 23:15.17 | jacekowski | it was just working fine |
| 23:15.26 | jacekowski | i remember it as being faster than n900 contacts |
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| 23:41.22 | Jef91 | Well this suck |
| 23:41.23 | Jef91 | s |
| 23:41.37 | Jef91 | With TMO being bought out this means no more N900 in the USA :( |
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| 23:41.43 | Jef91 | At least with decent mobile speeds |
| 23:48.56 | Arkenoi | Jef91, why? |
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| 23:49.35 | pupnik_ | please call it something besides TMO, which is talk.maemo.org |
| 23:49.37 | pupnik_ | you scared me |
| 23:49.40 | pupnik_ | :) |
| 23:50.07 | Jef91 | Arkenoi only company thats gives n900 3g speeds state sides |
| 23:50.20 | Jef91 | After AT&T buys them they are taking down that 3g band |
| 23:50.30 | chx | erm |
| 23:50.55 | chx | wont there be a few ppl like a million or ten who sues AT&T out of existence if it does that? |
| 23:50.56 | Arkenoi | Jef91, why taking down frequencies they already own? |
| 23:51.12 | Arkenoi | seems illogical to me |
| 23:51.15 | chx | you cant just go in and take away AWS service... |
| 23:51.26 | Jef91 | Upkeep costs |
| 23:51.35 | chx | I would think they would rather build on it |
| 23:51.38 | Jef91 | Nope, they are within their rights to do that |
| 23:51.40 | chx | it's already up to 42 mbps isnt it? |
| 23:51.45 | Jef91 | They are going to "give" peole new handhelds |
| 23:52.01 | Jef91 | but as many of us know, no handheld is the n900 |
| 23:52.06 | Proteous | were are you hearing all these things? |
| 23:52.06 | chx | that'd be a very costly endeavour, give everyone a new device who is using AWS. |
| 23:52.12 | chx | yeah |
| 23:52.20 | chx | sounds reddit bullshit to me :) |
| 23:52.22 | Proteous | or are you just making them up |
| 23:52.24 | Proteous | yeah |
| 23:53.05 | Proteous | there is no way they are not going to use the tmobile frequencies |
| 23:53.14 | Proteous | that spectrum is worth a shit ton |
| 23:53.15 | chx | in my imagination AT&T will just use TMO's existing network to provide LTE |
| 23:53.23 | chx | and expand it |
| 23:53.30 | chx | that'd be very logical wouldnt it? |
| 23:53.36 | chx | they already have a 42mbps network |
| 23:53.44 | chx | that's quite something. |
| 23:53.52 | chx | AT&T can't match that, not even close |
| 23:54.51 | chx | see http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-t-mobiles-new-42-mbps-network-faster-than-lte here. AT&T is so behind, it's not even mentioned. |
| 23:56.33 | chx | the problem will be data plans. if you dont have an imagination of what will transpire, https://www.orderrogers.ca/rocket/data-plans check this. |
| 23:59.04 | Jef91 | heh |
| 23:59.14 | SpeedEvil | All users would benefit from a simple unified data plan. |
| 23:59.41 | SpeedEvil | Text message costs per byte are clearly what this should be based on. |
| 23:59.50 | Proteous | heh |
