| 00:01.31 | DocScrutinizer | there's a list of "not working" 3-key combos: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard - for 4-key combos (ctrl-shift-blue-<char>) you're on your own |
| 00:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | (another nice example why N900 is NOT just a miniaturized PC, and why you need to keep in mind this fact even while designing userland apps) |
| 00:04.43 | jacekowski | well, how many key presses typical pc keyboard can do |
| 00:04.56 | jacekowski | your standard average keyboard can only do like 4-5 |
| 00:05.05 | DocScrutinizer | depends, usually they have full N-key rollover |
| 00:05.06 | jacekowski | and only some limited combinations |
| 00:05.47 | DocScrutinizer | at very least fo all the qualifier keys |
| 00:05.47 | jacekowski | not all of hem |
| 00:05.55 | jacekowski | gaming keyboards can do like 10 keys |
| 00:06.14 | jacekowski | my old ibm keyboard couldn't do left+right alt at the same time |
| 00:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | you hardly find any PC kbd that can't handle ctrl-shift-alt-<anykey> |
| 00:06.58 | jacekowski | new keyboard |
| 00:07.06 | jacekowski | try like 5 years ago |
| 00:07.19 | DocScrutinizer | never found any |
| 00:09.54 | jacekowski | i'm just watching tron |
| 00:10.14 | jacekowski | and there is nice nix thing there |
| 00:10.24 | jacekowski | around 22:55 |
| 00:10.40 | jacekowski | he's using real nix commands and getting real results |
| 00:12.56 | b-man` | ah, i remember that scene :D |
| 00:15.24 | ZogG | jacekowski, did you bought that film? |
| 00:15.27 | ZogG | you are pirate |
| 00:15.51 | jacekowski | ZogG: nope |
| 00:16.04 | jacekowski | not in this case |
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| 00:21.21 | gomiam | erm... is there an md5sum package for Diablo at a repository? |
| 00:21.59 | gomiam | (I could do with a .deb instead) |
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| 00:35.56 | steve___ | Does the n900 come default with a screen protector already on it? |
| 00:36.04 | fellu | No |
| 00:36.14 | steve___ | fellu: thanks. |
| 00:36.16 | fellu | Just some black sticker |
| 00:36.23 | fellu | Cannot see thru it |
| 00:36.55 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.57 | SpeedEvil | Sort-of. |
| 00:37.00 | SpeedEvil | But not really. |
| 00:37.08 | SpeedEvil | It's good enough to see the screen is working. |
| 00:37.17 | SpeedEvil | And that the device has booted normally |
| 00:37.20 | SpeedEvil | But not much more. |
| 00:37.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, anyway screen protectors really impair the nice sensitivity of the N900 touchscreen |
| 00:38.45 | nidO | screen protectors arent needed anyway if you make use of a case + care |
| 00:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | depending on your usage patterns it might be worth considering a touchpanel swap for ~80EUR after some 2..4 years rather than to get annoyed about a 20bucks screen protector turning N900 in a dull piece of hw |
| 00:39.50 | SpeedEvil | I disagree |
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| 00:40.02 | SpeedEvil | I find screen protectors completely essential |
| 00:40.14 | SpeedEvil | I however tend to abuse my device accidentally. |
| 00:40.30 | nidO | thats where the "care" part comes in :P |
| 00:40.33 | SpeedEvil | I was gardening, and accidentally put the seccateurs in the wrong pocket, and bent down and up a hundred times. |
| 00:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I said "depending on your usage pattern..." |
| 00:40.43 | SpeedEvil | Screen protector was damn near opaque. |
| 00:40.57 | nidO | my n900 lives in its' leather case 100% of the time it's not being used |
| 00:41.13 | SpeedEvil | On more rational usage - I got addicted to blocks for a bit. |
| 00:41.18 | nidO | screen with no protector on it's still flawless |
| 00:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | nidO: nope, you also charge it ;-P |
| 00:41.24 | SpeedEvil | That killed the screen. |
| 00:42.12 | nidO | DocScrutinizer: yeah true fair enough, it lives in its' case whenever it's anywhere other than in my hands or on its' stand |
| 00:42.30 | SpeedEvil | If you use fingers, then it's hard to scratch if that's how you use it |
| 00:42.40 | SpeedEvil | Fingertips |
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| 00:43.04 | nidO | i use both fingers and stylus, but im always intentionally careful when using the stylus |
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| 00:44.19 | BCMM | i've found that the stylus that comes with it can not scratch the screen |
| 00:44.28 | SpeedEvil | Hard to IME tell when you've got a microscopic bit of grit on the stylus though. |
| 00:44.35 | SpeedEvil | Which can scratch the screen. |
| 00:44.41 | BCMM | same with a finger |
| 00:44.57 | BCMM | well, you can feel microscopic objects with a fingertip actually, but still possible |
| 00:45.14 | DocScrutinizer | actually the single microscopic scar I got in one of the N900 screens was with fingernail when teher's been some sand or glass or whatever that stcked to that fingernail |
| 00:45.20 | nidO | the stylus's that Fake was/is selling seem like theyre probably a bit better than the nokia one at avoiding scratches, the tip seems to be made of slightly softer plastic |
| 00:45.22 | BCMM | i did totally ruin a screen protector, before i stopped using them, by getting addicted to a game |
| 00:45.47 | BCMM | you could see all the in-game buttons on the screen protector when i got rid of it |
| 00:45.49 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (guy@bzq-109-66-32-99.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 00:45.59 | SpeedEvil | With a finger, it's _really_ hard to scratch the screen, even with a bit of grit - using the fingertip |
| 00:46.12 | SpeedEvil | Not so with a nail, of course. |
| 00:46.36 | SpeedEvil | Oddly, I found that a sharp green wood stylus was awesome from a 'not attracting grit' POV |
| 00:47.10 | SpeedEvil | I used a japanese maple twig from a tree in the garden, lightly whittled |
| 00:47.30 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
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| 01:20.38 | TiagoTiago | somthing went bad with my accounts :( |
| 01:22.03 | TiagoTiago | everything was set to disabled , the passwords were gone and the display names were reset to the respective usernames, and it seems msetting things again doesn't make login work :( |
| 01:23.02 | *** join/#maemo Dhraakellian (~ntryon@cpe-67-240-248-41.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 01:26.01 | TiagoTiago | any idea what is going on? |
| 01:28.25 | GeneralAntilles | Android Market reviewers are idiots. |
| 01:28.53 | TiagoTiago | gah, things are even worse, the Settings app is CTDing on launch Dx |
| 01:29.18 | *** join/#maemo beford (~0o0o0@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 01:30.48 | *** join/#maemo jakemaheu (~user@76.226.31.63) |
| 01:30.58 | jakemaheu | Evening. |
| 01:31.28 | TiagoTiago | hm, somthing is seriouslly fucked up, can't open more than one terminal window anymore.... |
| 01:32.09 | jacekowski | you clik on top bar |
| 01:32.17 | jacekowski | and select new window there? |
| 01:32.59 | TiagoTiago | that worked |
| 01:33.30 | jakemaheu | If there are any kernel hackers here, please ping me. :) |
| 01:33.40 | jacekowski | don't ask to ask just ask |
| 01:33.55 | TiagoTiago | control-shift-X isn't doing anything though |
| 01:34.05 | jacekowski | TiagoTiago: try flashing it |
| 01:34.26 | lcuk2 | jakemaheu, convention usually says, present your question in a way which explains the problem efficiently and let people decide to answer |
| 01:34.43 | TiagoTiago | don't got a PC avaiable (mine is down, mobo issues it seems) |
| 01:35.34 | TiagoTiago | and it would be a pain to reinstall and set everything again, not to mention backing up all the individual files and folders i don't wanna loose |
| 01:35.54 | TiagoTiago | what is the command to launch the Settings app from terminal? |
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| 01:36.48 | jakemaheu | I lost the battery cover for my N800. Because of the sensor for the internal card slot, I can't use the card and swap file. Is there any way to disable the sensor? |
| 01:37.20 | jacekowski | not really |
| 01:37.32 | jacekowski | you could hack kernel to do it |
| 01:37.37 | jacekowski | but rebuilding it is a pain |
| 01:37.46 | jacekowski | just get a magnet |
| 01:37.55 | jacekowski | and how to fuck you've lost a back cover? |
| 01:38.16 | jakemaheu | Or, suggest a place I can get a back cover.. |
| 01:38.39 | jacekowski | ebay |
| 01:38.51 | jakemaheu | nope, checked |
| 01:39.04 | jacekowski | where are you? |
| 01:39.12 | jakemaheu | US |
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| 01:41.08 | TiagoTiago | other than reflashing, can you think of any alternatives? |
| 01:41.45 | jakemaheu | what term are you using? |
| 01:42.01 | TiagoTiago | me? |
| 01:42.11 | jakemaheu | yeah |
| 01:42.22 | TiagoTiago | the one that comes with the N900 |
| 01:42.37 | jakemaheu | xterm, then? |
| 01:42.46 | TiagoTiago | i think so |
| 01:44.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | jakemaheu: still same as suggested some hours ago: use an arbitrary magnet |
| 01:44.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | jakemaheu: what happened to your shortterm memory? |
| 01:44.45 | jakemaheu | i'd prefer to have a cover :[ |
| 01:45.34 | *** join/#maemo comawhite (~comawhite@kde/developer/karusler) |
| 01:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | that's no explanation why you ask same thing that got answered before already |
| 01:45.46 | lcuk2 | jakemaheu, ask on the maemo forums |
| 01:45.58 | lcuk2 | see if anyone has a spares/repairs device and will part with a cover |
| 01:46.26 | lcuk2 | and follow DocScrutinizer's advice with a magnet until you can get one |
| 01:46.47 | lcuk2 | alternatively, ask nokia |
| 01:47.30 | TiagoTiago | is there a way i can get a list of installeted packages sorted by the order they were installed? |
| 01:48.54 | *** join/#maemo cardinal (~cardinal@a79-169-143-91.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 01:49.46 | DocScrutinizer | why would you need sortorder install-time? |
| 01:50.08 | lcuk2 | TiagoTiago, yes there is something |
| 01:50.13 | lcuk2 | you can ls a folder |
| 01:50.22 | lcuk2 | and it has it in, but i cannot remember which folder |
| 01:50.37 | lcuk2 | DocScrutinizer, its good to know what you installed and the order you did it |
| 01:50.44 | DocScrutinizer | /var/apt/cche/bla |
| 01:50.44 | lcuk2 | because all things needed for something are clustered |
| 01:51.04 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, k |
| 01:51.04 | lcuk2 | i just asked exactly this in rpm |
| 01:51.05 | TiagoTiago | I wanna see which packages got installed more recently to try uninstalling them and see if that fix things |
| 01:51.37 | *** join/#maemo jakemaheu (~user@76.226.31.63) |
| 01:52.13 | jakemaheu | Whoops, forgot to charge my tablet :P |
| 01:52.20 | DocScrutinizer | ls -l /opt |
| 01:52.34 | DocScrutinizer | should kinda help a bit |
| 01:53.06 | TiagoTiago | hm, seems FAPMAN lets you sort by date, is that really the install date? |
| 01:53.55 | *** join/#maemo Dragnslcr (~scott@c-24-147-239-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:55.00 | DocScrutinizer | find /opt -executable -ls |
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| 01:56.10 | DocScrutinizer | duh, nm. That's compile date usually |
| 01:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | ...it seems |
| 01:56.41 | nox- | yeah i was just about to wonder... |
| 01:56.52 | *** join/#maemo npm (~npm@cpe-76-90-29-158.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 01:57.03 | nox- | the debs are just unpacked, keeping timestamps intact |
| 01:57.03 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@adsl-93-130-75.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:57.12 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 01:58.12 | DocScrutinizer | so back to ls -l /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 01:58.39 | *** join/#maemo fisted_ (~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted) |
| 01:59.39 | DocScrutinizer | meh, same |
| 02:00.09 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 02:00.09 | TiagoTiago | isn't there a log somewhere that says what was installed when? |
| 02:02.12 | *** join/#maemo kahless (~kahless@lucy.chaostal.de) |
| 02:02.47 | TiagoTiago | btw, does the N900 got a wayto schedule a boottime file system checkup? |
| 02:03.17 | cehteh | iirc the power kernel tools had something |
| 02:03.41 | DocScrutinizer | not sure about ls -lc /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 02:04.55 | lcuk2 | TiagoTiago, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-02-08.log.html#t2009-02-08T01:20:48 |
| 02:05.33 | TiagoTiago | hm |
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| 02:05.58 | lcuk2 | TiagoTiago, plenty of suggestions :) |
| 02:06.01 | lcuk2 | and actual info |
| 02:06.10 | *** join/#maemo jpinx_away (jpinx@simula.gunkies.org) |
| 02:06.17 | lcuk2 | I used that to do whatever I needed - infact, I setup a bookmark on my sftp client |
| 02:06.19 | TiagoTiago | shit, browser is CTDing too |
| 02:06.21 | lcuk2 | so I could see |
| 02:06.54 | TiagoTiago | should i try rebooting or the less i reboot the better right now? |
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| 02:07.51 | DocScrutinizer | ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort ;# just nice :-D |
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| 02:08.14 | GeneralAntilles | Man, Android sucks more than I remember. |
| 02:10.06 | TiagoTiago | only shows the dates, but not the stuff associated with them |
| 02:12.07 | TiagoTiago | is 380mb free on /home enough? |
| 02:14.24 | wmarone__ | GeneralAntilles: and it will never suck less |
| 02:16.18 | jakemaheu | Since Mugen has the BP-5L out of stock, are there any other companies that make decent high-capacity batteries? |
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| 02:16.53 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: what do you mean by "associated with them"? a complete graph of rdepends is a quite huge thing |
| 02:17.30 | TiagoTiago | wasn't that a list o dates of when things were installed? |
| 02:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | yes, so? |
| 02:18.18 | TiagoTiago | it only shows the when, i wanna also know the what |
| 02:18.37 | DocScrutinizer | isn't that clear by the name of the file? o.O |
| 02:19.15 | DocScrutinizer | I mean, what more do you need? |
| 02:19.50 | TiagoTiago | wait, what filename? |
| 02:19.59 | DocScrutinizer | 2011-01-19 19:31 /var/lib/dpkg/info/orrery |
| 02:20.00 | DocScrutinizer | 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/libmarble |
| 02:20.02 | DocScrutinizer | 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble |
| 02:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble-data |
| 02:20.05 | DocScrutinizer | 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble-plugins |
| 02:20.07 | DocScrutinizer | 2011-01-22 18:57 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble-maps |
| 02:20.08 | DocScrutinizer | 2011-01-26 18:26 /var/lib/dpkg/info/flashlight-applet |
| 02:20.22 | TiagoTiago | with me it only outputs the date and time.... |
| 02:21.38 | TiagoTiago | actually, it just gives me month, day and then hour and minute, no year nor seconds |
| 02:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | sorry dude, copied from backscroll here and pasted to xterm, works |
| 02:22.11 | TiagoTiago | sorry, the seconds are there |
| 02:22.42 | TiagoTiago | weird... |
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| 02:22.52 | DocScrutinizer | meh, blame: |
| 02:22.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~messybox |
| 02:22.56 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 02:23.15 | DocScrutinizer | use a decent shell, use bash |
| 02:23.21 | TiagoTiago | no, sorry, i was right the first time, no seconds |
| 02:23.41 | TiagoTiago | ok |
| 02:25.08 | TiagoTiago | same result inside bash.... |
| 02:25.27 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 02:25.29 | DocScrutinizer | nope, here it works in bash while I get your result in messybox |
| 02:26.02 | DocScrutinizer | maybe you should install coreutils as well, ls in bash still is busybox ls |
| 02:26.47 | DocScrutinizer | you can tell by `ls --help` |
| 02:30.30 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# busybox ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list |
| 02:30.32 | DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 284 Oct 30 2009 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list |
| 02:30.33 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list |
| 02:30.35 | DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 284 2009-10-30 12:29 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list |
| 02:30.42 | jakemaheu | Any high-capacity battery sugggestions? ^_^;; |
| 02:30.43 | TiagoTiago | i got core-utils gnu installed, but the plain core-utils asks me to uninstall lots of stuff to install it.... |
| 02:30.53 | jakemaheu | For the N800. |
| 02:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: then make sure you are using coreutils-gnu ls in the cmdline I posted |
| 02:31.36 | DocScrutinizer | probably gls |
| 02:31.39 | TiagoTiago | how do i do that? |
| 02:31.40 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 02:31.55 | DocScrutinizer | or /bin/gnu/ls or sth |
| 02:32.38 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/gnu/ls --help |
| 02:32.56 | DocScrutinizer | gls --help |
| 02:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | ls --help |
| 02:33.32 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# echo $PATH |
| 02:33.34 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/gnu:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 |
| 02:33.37 | *** join/#maemo lucent_ (eshattow@Ariel.Atlantica.US.TO) |
| 02:33.51 | TiagoTiago | there we go, thx |
| 02:34.46 | *** join/#maemo dRbiG (drbig@unhallowed.pl) |
| 02:34.54 | *** join/#maemo sge (~username@andesiitti.telemail.fi) |
| 02:34.57 | TiagoTiago | is it safe to make bash and the gnu coreutills the default in the N900? |
| 02:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | not really |
| 02:36.32 | DocScrutinizer | I think coreutils for default breaks boot |
| 02:36.52 | DocScrutinizer | just because of such incompatibilities like the one you just witnessed |
| 02:36.55 | TiagoTiago | hm, that list isn't up-to-date it seems, i've installed lots of shit this year but the list starts with december of 2010.... |
| 02:37.54 | DocScrutinizer | it might be incomplete, if var/lib/dpkg/info got cleaned by whatever |
| 02:38.18 | DocScrutinizer | also of course a reflash is like a new install, even when you restore backup |
| 02:38.48 | DocScrutinizer | so odds are you reflashed in dec 2010? |
| 02:38.53 | TiagoTiago | no, new stuff is missing but old stuff is there |
| 02:39.07 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, nfi |
| 02:39.18 | TiagoTiago | ~nfi |
| 02:39.18 | infobot | well, nfi is No Fucking Idea |
| 02:40.12 | TiagoTiago | does Maemo Synaptic bypasses the procedure that leaves traces where that command reads from? |
| 02:44.53 | TiagoTiago | That is what i usually use for installing, uninstalling and upgrading programs, HAM freezes too much, FAPMAN doesn't work (complains about repositories), and apt-get lacks a nice GUI |
| 02:44.58 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 02:45.22 | DocScrutinizer | btw the busybox ls date format was about the first thing I cursed on linux, some >15 years ago |
| 02:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | back then it's been standard format of ls |
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| 02:47.07 | GeneralAntilles | Seriously, Android. . . . |
| 02:47.14 | GeneralAntilles | This is what people use and they LIKE it?! |
| 02:47.16 | DocScrutinizer | cackles |
| 02:47.30 | DocScrutinizer | cackles satanically |
| 02:47.45 | TiagoTiago | What were they thinking when they choose busybox for their pseudo-flagship hackerphone? |
| 02:47.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~messybox |
| 02:47.57 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
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| 02:48.31 | DocScrutinizer | for lean scripting which is fast with small memory footprint it's quite OK I guess |
| 02:49.29 | DocScrutinizer | nah, actually not even then, which is proven by the annoying initscript incompatibilities |
| 02:50.56 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: what's that shell on Andridiot? X-D |
| 02:51.15 | TiagoTiago | Kinda sounds like they didn't really knew what they were doing and just went with what their friend that worked at a computer store suggested... |
| 02:51.29 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: beanshell? :) |
| 02:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 02:52.25 | DocScrutinizer | do you operate it via browser rather than xterm? |
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| 02:52.39 | cehteh | possibly :P |
| 02:53.04 | cehteh | you know ajaxterm btw? |
| 02:53.12 | DocScrutinizer | jeah, heard of it |
| 02:53.18 | DocScrutinizer | yeah even |
| 02:53.30 | TiagoTiago | Would it be possible for the community to develop a fixed version of Maemo5 that works with bash and gnu coreutils or the parts that are dependent on bb are closed source? |
| 02:53.40 | DocScrutinizer | there's been an article in c't some years ago |
| 02:54.05 | DocScrutinizer | a lot is closed source |
| 02:54.26 | cehteh | there is closed source in bb? |
| 02:54.32 | cehteh | didnt know that |
| 02:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | but for coreutils and shell there's no real problem |
| 02:54.49 | TiagoTiago | any idea how i can fix my N900 (messed up Accounts' acounts, lots of programs CTDing on launch ) without reflashing? |
| 02:55.01 | cehteh | yes you can replace anything and just keep busybox around for the messy parts |
| 02:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | which is pretty much what I do |
| 02:55.49 | TiagoTiago | Are there plans of doing that in the CSSU project? |
| 02:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | don't think so, that's mainly admin stuff, you can do it yourself basically |
| 02:57.03 | DocScrutinizer | see, that cmdline worked "ootb" on my N900 bash+*-utils setup |
| 02:57.23 | cehteh | btw i dint cared yet but where can i get CSSU? its not on the repos |
| 02:57.35 | DocScrutinizer | it's an own repo |
| 02:57.36 | TiagoTiago | Wouldn't that save the users from lots of headaches etc and not have any sinificant downsdides? |
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| 02:57.55 | cehteh | TiagoTiago: normal userland is much bigger |
| 02:57.58 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: it will break on next SSU |
| 02:58.18 | cehteh | the only advantage of busybox is that it is small :P |
| 02:58.19 | TiagoTiago | will there be one outside of the CSSU? |
| 02:58.32 | cehteh | there are alreaady ... |
| 02:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: not that it really was THAT much bigger so it would make a diff on a device with 32GB storage |
| 02:59.00 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: think about the ram for resident programs |
| 02:59.27 | cehteh | if it had 1GB ram then no problem .. but 256m .. damnit |
| 02:59.52 | DocScrutinizer | last time SpeedEvil checked, the diff between bash and busybox memory footprint wasn't really significant |
| 03:00.21 | TiagoTiago | any idea how i can fix my N900 (messed up Accounts' acounts, lots of programs CTDing on launch ) without reflashing? |
| 03:00.24 | cehteh | with all libs and accounting for all programs served by busybox? |
| 03:00.32 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: sorry |
| 03:00.43 | cehteh | TiagoTiago: replay your backup :P |
| 03:01.02 | TiagoTiago | don't got one recent enough :( |
| 03:01.09 | cehteh | mine strangely doesnt boot with usb connected .. something is borked |
| 03:01.18 | cehteh | but i dont want to reflash |
| 03:01.22 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: progs served by busybox are temporary, so memusage is irrelevant |
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| 03:01.54 | TiagoTiago | rebooting with the charger on often doesn't work every since one or two power kernel versions ago |
| 03:02.08 | cehteh | yesh |
| 03:02.20 | GeneralAntilles | Why do Android idiots call dding a .img to an SD card burning. . . . |
| 03:02.41 | DocScrutinizer | pff |
| 03:02.44 | nox- | haha |
| 03:02.51 | cehteh | exiting hot stuff for java progammers :) |
| 03:03.09 | nox- | or maybe they thought about cds? |
| 03:03.12 | DocScrutinizer | in germany there's an answer to that "vermutlich brennt ihnen der Kittel" |
| 03:03.21 | nox- | hehe |
| 03:04.06 | DocScrutinizer | which roughly translates to "their suit is burning" |
| 03:04.12 | TiagoTiago | what is the terminal command to launch microB? |
| 03:04.33 | DocScrutinizer | err, some dbus magic |
| 03:04.47 | TiagoTiago | i wanna see if it is spitting any errors |
| 03:05.02 | DocScrutinizer | oops, that won't work this way |
| 03:05.17 | DocScrutinizer | try browserd |
| 03:05.40 | DocScrutinizer | meh, browser |
| 03:06.17 | TiagoTiago | great, the wall charger isn't providing enough power to charge... |
| 03:06.45 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 03:07.27 | DocScrutinizer | what you're doing on that device? downloading HD video streams via UMTS and playback it on device? |
| 03:07.41 | GeneralAntilles | pounds head on desk. |
| 03:07.58 | TiagoTiago | i think somthing might have gone really wrong physicly, no idea what |
| 03:08.00 | GeneralAntilles | They're like small, broken children. |
| 03:08.12 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: better fetch a huge hammer to adjust that andridiot device |
| 03:09.02 | GeneralAntilles | needs a MeeGo image. |
| 03:09.23 | TiagoTiago | gonna try shutting down and leave it charging to full, if you don't see me around for a few days i'm probably looking for a new N900 or a repair service that can outdo Nokia (which is probably not that hard) |
| 03:09.26 | TiagoTiago | cya |
| 03:15.35 | GeneralAntilles | Seriously. |
| 03:16.10 | DocScrutinizer | another android fan is born ;-P |
| 03:17.52 | GeneralAntilles | This makes me so much more depressed about Nokia's recent strategic changes. |
| 03:17.53 | GeneralAntilles | rages. |
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| 03:20.47 | pupnik_ | eveningk |
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| 03:25.35 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik, howdy. |
| 03:25.45 | pupnik | hi GeneralAntilles |
| 03:26.12 | pupnik | playin with e71 and e72 right now. in some ways they're quite nice, in other ways they're like a straightjacket |
| 03:26.43 | pupnik | symbian doesn't even let you change your keyboard layout |
| 03:26.49 | GeneralAntilles | Playing with Android right now. |
| 03:26.53 | pupnik | what device |
| 03:26.53 | GeneralAntilles | I want to put ice picks in my eyes. |
| 03:26.59 | pupnik | lol why |
| 03:27.11 | GeneralAntilles | NOOKColor |
| 03:27.18 | GeneralAntilles | 'Cause it was cheap and I want to put MeeGo on it. |
| 03:27.36 | pupnik | how is the display in bright light? |
| 03:27.48 | GeneralAntilles | Dunno yet. |
| 03:27.50 | GeneralAntilles | Only had it in dark. |
| 03:28.21 | pupnik | e71 and e72 in sexxy black http://i.imgur.com/hchk0.jpg |
| 03:29.24 | pupnik | GeneralAntilles: so basically it's a standard lcd display? |
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| 03:29.28 | GeneralAntilles | IPS |
| 03:29.59 | pupnik | price? |
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| 03:31.03 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: http://paste.debian.net/109618/ (apt.get wrapper to keep a log) |
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| 03:33.38 | GeneralAntilles | 200 |
| 03:35.21 | DocScrutinizer | lire |
| 03:36.54 | DocScrutinizer | well, saving devices by replacing andridiot by anything better is a oble thing for sure :-) |
| 03:37.03 | DocScrutinizer | noble* |
| 03:39.31 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: have you managed to swap one of those camera modules without the special nokia tool? |
| 03:40.11 | pupnik | it's clipped in there pretty good - i can't see how to loosen it |
| 03:41.02 | DocScrutinizer | never tried it |
| 03:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | I guess there's a reason they offer a special tool for that |
| 03:42.30 | pupnik | looks like e72 and n900 share the same 5.0 mp camera |
| 03:42.37 | pupnik | maybe not |
| 03:42.48 | DocScrutinizer | probably there are latches down the bay, and you need to push them back by pushing down a thin thing between cam and bay on all 4 sides |
| 03:43.21 | GeneralAntilles | Ugh |
| 03:44.03 | pupnik | nokia wants me to pay 30-50 euro to at a nokia service center to change symbian keyboard layout |
| 03:44.08 | pupnik | lol |
| 03:44.26 | DocScrutinizer | muhaha |
| 03:44.48 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe with swap of keymat |
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| 03:45.12 | pupnik | yeah well i have to swap-in a german keymat here http://i.imgur.com/hchk0.jpg |
| 03:45.20 | pupnik | beautiful devices though - just feel great in the hand |
| 03:45.46 | luke-jr | so um |
| 03:46.04 | luke-jr | one of the companies I do work for had a crisis today and I bailed them out |
| 03:46.12 | luke-jr | CEO sez he owns me an iPad 2 |
| 03:46.23 | luke-jr | which probably sucks due to Apple crap, but what else is comparable? XD |
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| 03:47.15 | pupnik | how about something preferable |
| 03:48.06 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: doesn't look like the keymats would match |
| 03:48.27 | pupnik | they are different keymats yes, i'm just repairing the e72 |
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| 05:25.46 | TiagoTiago | ok, charger working again, programs launching again |
| 05:25.58 | TiagoTiago | still got issues with Accounts |
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| 05:27.02 | TiagoTiago | gonna try set the passwords again |
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| 05:30.34 | TiagoTiago | Ok, working again; any idea why the passwords were all gone? |
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| 05:47.36 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 05:48.21 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Just one more week to council elections! http://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_community_council_elections_approaching/ |
| 05:48.29 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
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| 05:55.48 | pupnik | dealing with closed-source phones really is a pain in the behind |
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| 06:05.28 | DocScrutinizer | nah, it's mere fun ;-D |
| 06:07.01 | DocScrutinizer | actually I didn't manage to find out why my 6210 sometimes broke on sending DTMF - though I tried ~10 years to find a pattern/cause |
| 06:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | don't worry, live with it. You can't change it anyway |
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| 06:09.42 | DocScrutinizer | cackles on meego developers edition and the call for coounity participation. Sure, now everything changes to the better, now that Nokia officially participates |
| 06:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | s/coounity/comunity/. |
| 06:17.02 | DocScrutinizer | @council: who of you will be available for another term, i.e. for re-election for council? Who definitly won't? |
| 06:17.37 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: what's up with you? |
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| 06:34.11 | pupnik | "in france you are only allowed to use WLAN indoors" |
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| 06:35.25 | RST38h | zee french!... |
| 06:35.25 | pupnik | wow, e72 feaures 'remote sim mode' |
| 06:35.28 | pupnik | lol |
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| 06:41.01 | DocScrutinizer | lol? wow! *doubts* |
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| 06:41.32 | DocScrutinizer | host, client, or both? |
| 06:41.52 | DocScrutinizer | via BT, via FBUS, via WLAN? |
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| 06:42.36 | DocScrutinizer | could you please start pnatd in xterm and see what it answers to AT+CSIM? |
| 06:42.39 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 06:47.49 | pupnik | just reading the docs DocScrutinizer |
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| 06:47.59 | DocScrutinizer | (indoors) is a tent indoors? is usage on a balkony indoors? |
| 06:48.16 | pupnik | heh |
| 06:48.40 | pupnik | from this http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/guides/Nokia_E72_UG_en.pdf |
| 06:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | meh, French. Where the techblogs don't know mini-USB from micro-USB |
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| 07:02.48 | pupnik | If ignorance is not an excuse for the law, how do we explain Congress? |
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| 07:32.39 | TiagoTiago | Didn't the french pass a law forbiding people from choosing how to dress above the neck? |
| 07:33.37 | TiagoTiago | Someone should do a ninja parade there with hundreds of people covered from head to toe in black stealth ninja suits.... |
| 07:35.43 | ilius | !offtopic |
| 07:36.12 | pupnik | a parade of ninjas would be hard to see |
| 07:36.14 | TiagoTiago | Imagine the news footage, riot police facing off a batallion of ninjas! |
| 07:36.49 | TiagoTiago | with a* |
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| 07:37.19 | pupnik | maybe the n950 will have dual-wifi cards for mesh networking |
| 07:38.27 | TiagoTiago | have you heard of "super wifi"? Some people wanna use wifi over analog TV frequencies to go further and deeper with the same wattage |
| 07:38.43 | pupnik | cool |
| 07:38.57 | pupnik | reflections suck |
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| 07:40.05 | TiagoTiago | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_WiFi |
| 07:41.23 | pupnik | ty TiagoTiago - very interesting |
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| 07:43.22 | TiagoTiago | yw |
| 07:45.54 | TiagoTiago | I wonder if it woud be possible to control the sending of bits to the point of tricking analog TV receivers into recognizing the signal as images and/or sounds |
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| 07:53.47 | khertan_ | DocScrutinizer, if only mini-USB and micro-USB was the only problem |
| 07:54.01 | DocScrutinizer | hah |
| 07:55.09 | khertan_ | for them the rumored specs of the n950 is official |
| 07:55.19 | khertan_ | and it s also a mini usb :) |
| 07:56.41 | khertan_ | <pupnik> "in france you are only allowed to use WLAN indoors" <<< nope ... you can paid to get a licence, or use restricted paid to use wlan from phone carrier |
| 08:01.12 | khertan_ | try a new ide for Python Dev ... Aptana studio ... 5 min to agree that it s not for me ;) (1min to load a simple python file on a quad core i5 with 8Go of ram and file located on a ssd) |
| 08:03.59 | khertan_ | n950 : http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-N950-Notebook-Processor.37490.0.html |
| 08:04.00 | khertan_ | ;) |
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| 08:06.17 | khertan_ | http://www.meego-os.fr/public/Meego/.N950-2010_m.jpg <<< -- original n900 concept |
| 08:06.36 | gfvirga | Hello, yall!!!! Could someone help me with a bricked phone? |
| 08:07.24 | dm8tbr | hands some mortaar |
| 08:09.11 | TiagoTiago | Kinda on topic; how challenging would it be to design a device similar to the N900 that has a main processor being an ARM but also got a coprocessor that is based on the x86 architecture, with the device being capable of using binaries copiled for both ARM and x86 processors, multitasking, without needing to booth into alternate OS to switch architecture? |
| 08:09.13 | gfvirga | I created the thread today http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70657, I managed to install the FIASCO then the EMMC without rebooting. But the Maemo doesnt boot :( |
| 08:09.38 | gfvirga | ops |
| 08:12.21 | psycho_oreos | did you verify the download of the firmware to see if it matches with the file provided online? |
| 08:13.37 | dm8tbr | TiagoTiago: skip the copro, go for qemu :) |
| 08:14.11 | TiagoTiago | won't qemu reduce the performance significantly? |
| 08:16.44 | dm8tbr | I'd like to see benchmarks. preferably for a hardfloat qemu |
| 08:18.57 | gfvirga | Whats qemu? |
| 08:19.22 | gfvirga | I checkedsum the files they are normal |
| 08:19.27 | gfvirga | Identical |
| 08:22.00 | TiagoTiago | it's an emulator capable of emulating systems in several different architectures |
| 08:25.47 | gfvirga | Ohh, I wanted to try maemo really bad :( . |
| 08:26.48 | dm8tbr | thinks gfvirga confuses two separate conversations |
| 08:26.57 | TiagoTiago | indeed |
| 08:27.22 | gfvirga | sorry, I better sleep |
| 08:27.24 | gfvirga | see youu |
| 08:27.46 | TiagoTiago | ok... |
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| 09:40.02 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 09:40.20 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Sorry, was busy yesterday - didn't see it. Will do it today, though |
| 09:41.15 | TiagoTiago | is there a way i can make Hildon ignore child windows of a program, letting me choose to have the main window focused even when the childwindow tries to be on top? |
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| 09:49.33 | TiagoTiago | Anyone? |
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| 10:03.53 | TiagoTiago | balls :( |
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| 10:31.04 | TiagoTiago | is there a way i can make Hildon ignore child windows of a program, letting me choose to have the main window focused even when the childwindow tries to be on top? |
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| 10:57.30 | TiagoTiago | oh well, i'm heading off, cya |
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| 11:43.47 | Jaffa | Anyone done anything with QML & the accelerometer (i.e. QtMobility.sensors) |
| 11:45.09 | MohammadAG | cue complaints about high cpu usage |
| 11:46.12 | Jaffa | Well, indeed. |
| 11:46.18 | Jaffa | Just testing something for now |
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| 11:47.00 | Jaffa | "module "QtMobility.sensors" is not installed" - gah |
| 11:47.42 | lcuk | Jaffa, what are you trying to accelerate? :P |
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| 11:52.20 | Jaffa | lcuk: Playing with latest Qt SDK and thinking of targetting Symbian, Maemo and MeeGo. But there're still annoying gaps. |
| 11:53.02 | lcuk | Jaffa, are you remaking attitude? |
| 11:53.13 | Jaffa | Yeah |
| 11:53.21 | Jaffa | Something nice and simple to start with |
| 11:53.21 | lcuk | cool beans |
| 11:53.58 | Jaffa | Developing the QML is relatively straightforward (although the designer now doesn't like it since I've pulled in Accelerometer). But getting it deployed and running on an actual device is too frustrating. |
| 11:54.25 | alterego | I had one of my N900s hooked up to a 42" HDTV last night in a pub and let people write messages using MyPaint for a mates' birthday. |
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| 11:55.11 | lcuk | haha alterego :D |
| 11:55.30 | alterego | Went down really well. |
| 11:55.31 | lcuk | simple lowest common denominator |
| 11:56.17 | lcuk | alterego, last time I had n900 hooked up to a projector |
| 11:56.27 | lcuk | my cats went mental for lines being drawn on the wall |
| 11:56.43 | alterego | Hahah |
| 11:56.58 | Jaffa | Something around http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Latest_Qt_and_Qt_mobility_evaluation_on_Maemo perhaps |
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| 11:58.12 | lcuk | Jaffa, will you be able to do the same sort of rotation and custom drawing you have in attitude? |
| 11:58.22 | lcuk | ie for the horizon and scale guide lines? |
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| 12:00.40 | Jaffa | lcuk: I *think* so |
| 12:00.45 | lcuk | haha |
| 12:00.47 | Jaffa | lcuk: And I think I can do it all in QML |
| 12:01.02 | lcuk | the simpler ones you could make end up looking like what I did in liqbase as a first step |
| 12:01.55 | lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090830_175314.liqaccelview_alternative1.scr.png |
| 12:01.57 | lcuk | like that |
| 12:02.15 | lcuk | ie, that does not involve rotation or 3d but will simply show your code is working etc |
| 12:02.20 | Jaffa | has the sky, ground & angle display done |
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| 12:02.46 | lcuk | sweet |
| 12:04.41 | lcuk | Jaffa, did you see any of the tweets I did from yesterday, had a twitter guy follow me from @Dubai_villa and went looking at them, absolutely breathtaking stuff on the Palm island! |
| 12:04.51 | Jaffa | Yeah, shiny. Been there :-) |
| 12:05.02 | lcuk | nice |
| 12:05.07 | lcuk | where did you stay? |
| 12:07.17 | Jaffa | The Al Jameiriah Beach, IIRC |
| 12:07.33 | Jaffa | Next to the big tall hotel on the beach which is the posh one in all the adverts |
| 12:08.00 | Jaffa | Yeah, it was: http://www.jumeirah.com/hotels-and-resorts/destinations/dubai/jumeirah-beach-hotel/ |
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| 12:10.26 | lcuk | nice Jaffa |
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| 12:10.41 | jonwil | whats nice? |
| 12:11.01 | lcuk | <lcuk> Jaffa, did you see any of the tweets I did from yesterday, had a twitter guy follow me from @Dubai_villa and went looking at them, absolutely breathtaking stuff on the Palm island! |
| 12:11.01 | lcuk | <Jaffa> Yeah, shiny. Been there :-) |
| 12:11.01 | lcuk | <lcuk> nice |
| 12:11.01 | lcuk | <lcuk> where did you stay? |
| 12:11.01 | lcuk | <Jaffa> The Al Jameiriah Beach, IIRC |
| 12:11.02 | lcuk | <Jaffa> Next to the big tall hotel on the beach which is the posh one in all the adverts |
| 12:11.04 | lcuk | <Jaffa> Yeah, it was: http://www.jumeirah.com/hotels-and-resorts/destinations/dubai/jumeirah-beach-hotel/ |
| 12:11.24 | lcuk | jonwil, ^ |
| 12:11.33 | jonwil | nice |
| 12:12.05 | jonwil | I wish I could go on holidays to somewhere nice :( |
| 12:12.25 | psycho_oreos | why wish? |
| 12:12.33 | jonwil | no money |
| 12:12.38 | jonwil | :P |
| 12:12.46 | jonwil | Its called "N900s are expensive" |
| 12:13.13 | psycho_oreos | contracted? |
| 12:14.25 | jonwil | nope, my N900 is outright purchase |
| 12:15.04 | psycho_oreos | well at least you won't have high upkeep |
| 12:15.21 | jonwil | yeah I am on really cheap plan |
| 12:16.21 | psycho_oreos | still can't see how or why N900 are expensive when you have bought it outright lol, I suppose you can now look forward to saving money up to travel |
| 12:16.47 | jonwil | The N900 cost me about $500 |
| 12:16.54 | jonwil | thats AU$ |
| 12:17.12 | psycho_oreos | a lot cheaper than what I paid, plus mine is on contract lol |
| 12:17.34 | jonwil | Plus I had a holiday recently (xmas time) |
| 12:17.45 | jonwil | Went to the Gold Coast to see the family |
| 12:18.11 | psycho_oreos | not bothered to also meetup with other maemo users floating around in qld? :D |
| 12:18.20 | jonwil | This was BEFORE I had the N900 :P |
| 12:18.50 | psycho_oreos | lol well I guess you can now look forward to saving money up then :) |
| 12:19.01 | jonwil | I have other things to save for |
| 12:19.04 | psycho_oreos | and you DID have a holiday lol, not working endlessly |
| 12:19.06 | jonwil | like my LEGO habit |
| 12:19.28 | psycho_oreos | heh |
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| 12:19.38 | Jaffa | jonwil: That was a work jolly |
| 12:20.00 | jonwil | lucky thing working for someone who pays for you to go to places |
| 12:20.25 | jonwil | Although I bet they only pay for the crappiest cheapest seats on the plane :P |
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| 12:21.53 | psycho_oreos | hey better than nothing :) |
| 12:21.57 | jonwil | yeah |
| 12:22.06 | jonwil | it depends on the airline as well |
| 12:22.15 | lcuk | jonwil, your workplace offers INSIDE seats? |
| 12:22.31 | jonwil | I have never worked anywhere that paid for travel |
| 12:22.54 | jonwil | or that required work travel at all for that matter |
| 12:23.27 | jonwil | Junior software engineers dont get to travel for work :) |
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| 12:25.57 | lcuk | jonwil, first thing you should do then is find out how to remove the "Junior" from your percepted job title |
| 12:26.19 | jonwil | right now I am between jobs and will take whatever I can get |
| 12:26.39 | jonwil | There is a lack of jobs around here unless you have 3+years in <technology I know nothing about> |
| 12:26.55 | lcuk | nods |
| 12:27.52 | jonwil | Maybe the Linux skills I am learning from playing with my N900 will help me land a job... |
| 12:28.31 | psycho_oreos | its a laughable farce the .au IT jobs. They outsourced basic IT and demand heaps for higher up management roles |
| 12:28.43 | jonwil | The #1 problem with the Austrlaian |
| 12:28.54 | jonwil | Australian IT industry are Recruitment Firms |
| 12:29.35 | jonwil | 99.9% of the jobs I have applied for, my CV has vanished into a black hole at a recruitment firm |
| 12:30.23 | psycho_oreos | though if you are on the dole and have enlisted yourself to one of their recommended recruitment agencies, they tend to keep pushing you before they try and refer you into a job if you happen to be lucky enough |
| 12:30.49 | jonwil | I have one of the govt jobsearch agencies helping me out |
| 12:31.16 | jonwil | but the jobs we apply to end up in the aformentioned black hole |
| 12:32.20 | jonwil | A google for "it recruitment perth" reveals a laundry list of companies, many of whom I have sent my CV to for one or more jobs and none of which I have ever heard back from... |
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| 12:34.12 | psycho_oreos | has happened to me before in qld, and I still end up not being in IT field, gotta love it.. kinda makes me think of tradies, you go through uni/tradesmanship and they try to place you in the job, otherwise the jobs tell you to get fucked |
| 12:35.03 | jacekowski | these firms are useless |
| 12:35.16 | jacekowski | it takes them year to find somebody if you are an employer |
| 12:35.29 | jacekowski | and it takes them year to respond if you're and employee |
| 12:35.35 | psycho_oreos | that's how they make money :) |
| 12:35.53 | jacekowski | that's why i avoid any offers that don't lead directly to company |
| 12:36.02 | lcuk | jonwil, if you could find a way to show an employer that you would be as motivated in a real job as I have seen you recent weeks around maemo then you will have no trouble |
| 12:36.14 | lcuk | I am going getting dressed, cyas later \o |
| 12:36.29 | zutesmog | jonwil are you in perth ? |
| 12:36.35 | jonwil | yes |
| 12:36.38 | jonwil | Perth |
| 12:36.43 | jacekowski | hmm, an aussie |
| 12:36.47 | zutesmog | me too |
| 12:36.48 | jacekowski | i work with one aussie |
| 12:36.56 | jacekowski | he's soooooooooo annoying |
| 12:37.02 | jacekowski | and he's a moron |
| 12:37.05 | zutesmog | we all are! |
| 12:37.12 | psycho_oreos | ._. |
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| 12:37.56 | zutesmog | whats your python skills like ? |
| 12:37.58 | lcuk | jonwil, what is your linkedin address? |
| 12:38.06 | jonwil | Not on linkedin |
| 12:38.13 | jonwil | and I dont know the first thing about Python |
| 12:38.18 | zutesmog | ok |
| 12:38.22 | lcuk | for a tech person, have a go, build up a profile |
| 12:38.29 | jacekowski | linkedin is like a dick size content |
| 12:38.32 | jacekowski | tbh |
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| 12:38.53 | psycho_oreos | in other words a site to measure one's dick? |
| 12:39.00 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 12:39.03 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 12:39.17 | jonwil | Oh wait, I do know one thing about Python that I picked up at one job I worked, I do know that Python on Windows is a pain in the ass :P |
| 12:39.21 | alterego | I've never used it |
| 12:39.27 | lcuk | it is a way to easily and recognisably share info easily even over irc |
| 12:39.30 | alterego | Donmt really plan on doing it either. |
| 12:39.41 | psycho_oreos | interesting way to put it, I've seen a few linkedin profiles but I never made a linkedin profile myself |
| 12:39.51 | alterego | Unless someone seriously suggests it. |
| 12:40.00 | lcuk | :| |
| 12:40.11 | lcuk | suggests it |
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| 12:40.29 | psycho_oreos | and the boat was missed :) |
| 12:40.31 | lcuk | after many people asked me to do the same when I was in similar situation |
| 12:40.31 | jonwil | Had 3 jobs since getting my degree, the first was a 6 month student internship with Motorola working on the phone software (basically it was 6 months full time paid work that was also a university unit) |
| 12:40.40 | lcuk | it helped just to write down and fill in details :) |
| 12:41.22 | lcuk | anyway, clothes |
| 12:41.27 | lcuk | apt-cache search shirt |
| 12:41.41 | jonwil | The second job was doing software development for a university research operation doing genetics research |
| 12:42.28 | zutesmog | so jonwil I gather you are looking for work in perth ? What's your main skillset ? I am not a recruiter - been in Perth IT since 80's (was with Sun for 9 years in the 90's) and am exiting the IT industry, but have lots of contacts and people are always asking me for people. |
| 12:42.53 | jonwil | I am really good with C |
| 12:42.56 | jonwil | and C++ |
| 12:43.06 | jonwil | Also Win32 API programming |
| 12:43.12 | zutesmog | ok cool. UI or low level stuff ? |
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| 12:43.24 | jonwil | Never written hardware drivers |
| 12:43.35 | jonwil | all userspace |
| 12:43.53 | zutesmog | ok, what about database, server stuff ? |
| 12:44.00 | zutesmog | or gfx. |
| 12:44.09 | jonwil | DirectX I can do |
| 12:44.21 | jonwil | and probably OpenGL |
| 12:44.27 | jonwil | although I havent done any GL for a while |
| 12:44.41 | jonwil | I also have GOOD skills with x86 assembler |
| 12:44.50 | zutesmog | ok will keep that in mind. My main gfx contacts are 2d/print oriented. |
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| 12:45.15 | zutesmog | asm is a bit too low level for any of my contacts ;-) |
| 12:45.23 | jonwil | I have no art or design skills whatsoever :) |
| 12:45.45 | jonwil | couldn't use Photoshop to save my life :P |
| 12:45.51 | zutesmog | no probs, most people don't ;-) But most people can't code for nuts either ! |
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| 12:46.32 | jonwil | Not really a web guy either, dont know that much about Javascript or HTML |
| 12:47.30 | jacekowski | jonwil: how good are you with asm? |
| 12:47.56 | jonwil | If its 32bit x86 user space, VERY good |
| 12:47.59 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:48.03 | zutesmog | so basically c/c++ user space, and a good understanding of gfx. Likes his N900, and how do you rate you server exposure (not web) and linux/unix skills |
| 12:48.12 | jacekowski | try reversing that |
| 12:48.28 | jonwil | I have a Gentoo box sitting next to me |
| 12:48.32 | jonwil | that I set up myself |
| 12:48.49 | jonwil | and I am learning more about Linux |
| 12:49.35 | jonwil | Note that my people skills (when interacting with customers or non-technical people) are non-existant |
| 12:50.14 | zutesmog | yeah that's fine. Most aren't good to start with ;-) |
| 12:50.22 | jonwil | I have no problems using a command line (either windows or linux) |
| 12:50.24 | psycho_oreos | I guess that's a bit of a side effect of being a geek :) |
| 12:50.31 | zutesmog | how about embeded stuff ? |
| 12:50.50 | jonwil | I cant do all the fancy advanced shell script stuff though |
| 12:50.59 | jonwil | Also I can learn new stuff fairly quickly |
| 12:51.17 | jonwil | Never had any real exposure to embedded stuff beyond mobile phone bits |
| 12:51.18 | zutesmog | hey I am definately a geek, but people think I am lovely to talk to, when I don't tell them they're a wanker |
| 12:51.30 | jonwil | and even then, its been higher level and not drivers or hardware |
| 12:52.05 | zutesmog | what where you doing in the genetics stuff, number crunching, pattern matching ? |
| 12:52.25 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@b0tta3unxr.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 12:52.28 | jonwil | Mostly it was manipulating various DNA sequences |
| 12:53.01 | jonwil | Although not that much was done (because the guys doing the actual science never bothered to talk to us about what they needed or whether what we were doing was what they wanted) |
| 12:53.36 | zutesmog | ok, large data sets (did you use HDF5 or any of that sort thing ?) |
| 12:53.46 | jonwil | never heard of HDF5 |
| 12:54.00 | zutesmog | sorry to grill you, just trying to get a feel breadth of exposure. |
| 12:54.05 | zutesmog | no probs. |
| 12:55.03 | jonwil | That was all C/C++ with QT |
| 12:55.08 | jonwil | on linux |
| 12:55.15 | zutesmog | ah ok. |
| 12:55.27 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:55.54 | jonwil | The genetics work was with the Center For Comparative Genomics at Murdoch |
| 12:56.00 | zutesmog | any threaded heavily parallel stuff ? |
| 12:56.03 | zutesmog | ok. |
| 12:56.16 | jonwil | no experience with threading |
| 12:56.21 | jonwil | well minimal |
| 12:56.33 | jonwil | I know most of the win32 API calls for it |
| 12:56.57 | jonwil | My most recent job (the third) was with the Disability Services Commission |
| 12:57.24 | jonwil | and involved working with something called SQL Server Reporting Services |
| 12:58.10 | zutesmog | Any exposure to linq ? |
| 12:58.14 | jonwil | nope |
| 12:58.15 | zutesmog | as part of that ? |
| 12:58.22 | jonwil | A bit of VB.NET work |
| 12:58.27 | *** join/#maemo APTX (~APTX@phpBB/developer/APTX) |
| 12:58.34 | jonwil | well there was exposure to LINQ |
| 12:58.37 | jonwil | in that it was used |
| 12:58.40 | jonwil | but I dont know how to use it |
| 12:58.46 | zutesmog | ok |
| 12:59.03 | zutesmog | Never used it myself. |
| 12:59.07 | jonwil | I did some Java programming back in uni (desktop stuff only, not the server side) |
| 12:59.20 | jonwil | Not sure how far Java has changed since I did it though |
| 12:59.39 | Venemo | hey, LINQ is awesome |
| 13:00.02 | zutesmog | a lot more api's . I started with java before it was called java inside sun, back at the end of 1994. Its gotten a whole lot of cruft since then ;-) |
| 13:00.18 | jonwil | Java as a language is great |
| 13:00.28 | *** join/#maemo cfreak200 (~cfreak200@p4FDB4599.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:00.32 | jonwil | Java as a set of APIs isnt too bad |
| 13:00.48 | jonwil | The only problem with Java is the political and legal crap surrouding it |
| 13:01.00 | jonwil | and all the fights between IBM, Oracle, Apache, Google etc etc etc |
| 13:01.15 | zutesmog | far too many. Just have a look at all the database api's JDO, JPA, objectify ........... python is much nice ;-) |
| 13:01.30 | jonwil | btw I am 100% against software patents |
| 13:01.30 | zutesmog | and yep way too much politics |
| 13:01.47 | zutesmog | s/nice/nicer/ |
| 13:01.48 | *** join/#maemo marainein (~marainein@220-253-47-110.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 13:04.16 | zutesmog | oh well I will be lurking here. Very much into my N900. Not taking on any more contracts, and just gracefully exiting IT, so if I see anything interesting will let you know. |
| 13:06.05 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 13:06.24 | jonwil | I am also extremely good at reverse engineering, debugging and problem solving |
| 13:07.03 | jonwil | About the only technologies I wont touch is Microsoft Access and Sharepoint |
| 13:07.14 | jonwil | Oh and anything involving a God of some kind is out :P |
| 13:07.36 | psycho_oreos | lol |
| 13:09.14 | jonwil | I havent set foot inside a religious institution since highschool and I am not about to start now |
| 13:09.18 | lcuk | Venemo, did you end up releasing test build of puzzle master for the n8x0? |
| 13:09.37 | lcuk | jonwil, linkedin also allows you to write what you are strong and positive about |
| 13:10.03 | jonwil | oh and one more thing, I dont have car or drivers license |
| 13:10.16 | lcuk | zutesmog, what are of IT were you involved with? |
| 13:10.23 | lcuk | area * |
| 13:10.47 | psycho_oreos | jonwil, still interesting to see that you have set yer eyesight on a VY ute :) |
| 13:11.01 | Venemo | lcuk, it is in Diablo's extras-devel :) |
| 13:11.06 | lcuk | :) |
| 13:11.06 | zutesmog | been consulting/contracting since 2001. Sun, Linux, web backends. Re-acrhictected a 2d renderer (which was built in C++ and delphi) |
| 13:11.07 | jonwil | why would I need a car when Perth has such an excellent bus system |
| 13:11.13 | lcuk | Venemo, that is great stuff. |
| 13:11.19 | Venemo | lcuk, all the recent releases built OK for both Fremantle and Diablo |
| 13:11.25 | lcuk | infact, that is how I thought Qt apps would be |
| 13:11.27 | zutesmog | and spent the last 2 and a bit years doing mainly appengine |
| 13:11.30 | jonwil | Delphi, that brings back memory |
| 13:11.32 | psycho_oreos | er VZ, not VY, just recalled those small lights |
| 13:11.36 | jonwil | memories |
| 13:11.42 | Venemo | lcuk: only drawback is that Diablo release doesn't have any fancyness, since the animation framework came in Qt 4.6 |
| 13:11.44 | *** join/#maemo sunny_s (~sunny_s@86.57.254.135) |
| 13:12.03 | lcuk | Venemo, fancyness does not matter on a low spec machine |
| 13:12.18 | lcuk | people prefer something basic and working than not being able to use it at all |
| 13:12.30 | Venemo | lcuk: that's what I thought when I did this :) |
| 13:12.34 | lcuk | :) |
| 13:12.36 | Venemo | for details, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69454 |
| 13:14.04 | lcuk | zutesmog, cool stuff |
| 13:14.10 | lcuk | what did you use your 2d renderer for? |
| 13:15.17 | zutesmog | printing signs. SignIQ is the product. The renderer was originally written in toolbook. I proved (with a prototype) we could take the same templates and build our own renderer. The built the team, and designed the architecture. |
| 13:15.42 | zutesmog | we got some massive performance/stability improvements. |
| 13:16.06 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (~slauwers@bch66-2-88-164-78-176.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:16.06 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 13:16.07 | lcuk | nice |
| 13:16.14 | zutesmog | and delivered the new rendere on time ;-) |
| 13:16.16 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer: I'm not running. |
| 13:16.36 | DocScrutinizer | prods GeneralAntilles |
| 13:16.49 | *** join/#maemo niala900 (~user@bro67-1-81-56-100-18.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:17.10 | niala900 | hello |
| 13:17.19 | lcuk | zutesmog, so you rendered to printer |
| 13:17.43 | lcuk | or was it to screen/projector too? |
| 13:17.59 | zutesmog | device context, (supplied to the C++ renderer from a delphi front end) so we could render bitmaps, postscript etc.. |
| 13:18.20 | lcuk | cool |
| 13:18.29 | zutesmog | I wanted to go with cairo but that was considered a bit too risky (by myself too ;-) especially as it was a windows app ;-) |
| 13:19.13 | lcuk | heh yeah |
| 13:19.46 | zutesmog | text on a curved path is not easy with gdi+ and the rich text formatting is not graet either. And we would scale text to fit rules. The templates can be scripted with business rules in javascript/vbscript |
| 13:20.10 | zutesmog | I got python running as scripting backend as well, but we didn't ship that. |
| 13:20.15 | lcuk | heh I have wrangled windows GDI printing and rtf for years |
| 13:20.45 | jonwil | Why cant Windows have sane printing like Linux and OSX |
| 13:20.54 | lcuk | it kindof did |
| 13:21.01 | lcuk | but it was not the printing, it was the fonts |
| 13:21.26 | lcuk | since rendering to one DC for screen and switching to print actually gave different scale/results |
| 13:21.30 | zutesmog | not a lot of fun is it, you can't stay in gdi+ you have to drop into gdi at times as some stuff isn't implemented. all sorts of insane things. |
| 13:21.31 | lcuk | cursed that often |
| 13:22.00 | zutesmog | yeah, we spent a seriously large amount of time resolving those differences. |
| 13:22.29 | lcuk | i was outraged when I found out .net could not actually give you an accurate pixel size for a string to be rendered |
| 13:22.35 | lcuk | and gives a best estimate |
| 13:22.52 | lcuk | (before I knew about subpixel stuff) |
| 13:23.35 | Venemo | well WPF did fix most of these kind of things |
| 13:23.36 | zutesmog | yep, and try scaling it to fit in a box for each piece of text, that might need to be wrapped or not. And so have to binary search for the best fit. |
| 13:24.01 | lcuk | heh well zutesmog I endeavoured to solve that |
| 13:24.03 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93-35-147-150.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 13:24.07 | zutesmog | and of course none of the rich text could deal well with arbitrary rotations. |
| 13:24.14 | niala900 | can i emulate midlle mouse button? |
| 13:24.25 | lcuk | lol yeah |
| 13:24.32 | lcuk | zutesmog, http://liqbase.net/font_scale_rendering_area_2.png from years ago |
| 13:24.47 | lcuk | each box has the text as large as possible |
| 13:24.54 | lcuk | window fully rescalable |
| 13:25.00 | lcuk | was a great test of algorithm |
| 13:25.03 | zutesmog | cool. |
| 13:25.17 | *** join/#maemo ed1703 (~ed1703@ultra.edgonline.nl) |
| 13:25.34 | *** join/#maemo mortenvp_ (~mortenvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 13:25.47 | zutesmog | see you guys around! |
| 13:26.01 | lcuk | cya later, nice chatting with you \o |
| 13:26.35 | *** part/#maemo rhkfin (rhk@ubuntu/member/rhkfin) |
| 13:28.47 | psycho_oreos | cya zutesmog |
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| 13:32.49 | jonwil | Working with the N900 has made me realize why I dont like GTK that much |
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| 13:36.51 | Venemo | jonwil, you can use Qt |
| 13:37.02 | jonwil | yeah I know |
| 13:38.31 | Venemo | so? |
| 13:43.29 | alterego | What's wrong with Gtk? |
| 13:43.56 | jonwil | I think my main dislike of it is that on Windows its junk |
| 13:44.13 | jonwil | and the apps that use it on Windows dont feel anything like a Windows app should :P |
| 13:44.14 | *** join/#maemo AsiQue (~AsiQue@IGLD-84-228-47-220.inter.net.il) |
| 13:45.18 | alterego | Right, so what has that got to do with Gtk on the N900? |
| 13:46.45 | jonwil | no idea :P |
| 13:46.45 | *** join/#maemo Lava_Croft (lcd@h1764403.stratoserver.net) |
| 13:47.59 | alterego | Besides, only losers care about Windows. |
| 13:48.16 | crashanddie_ | and people who want to make money |
| 13:48.18 | Lava_Croft | i would have to strongly disagree out of mere principle |
| 13:49.32 | crashanddie_ | feel free |
| 13:49.59 | Lava_Croft | not with you though |
| 13:50.11 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 13:50.30 | crashanddie_ | at least he didn't write "only loosers..." |
| 13:51.13 | crashanddie_ | I've actually ran out of electricity sockets in my flat |
| 13:51.28 | crashanddie_ | s/ran/run/ |
| 13:53.24 | alterego | I manage to make money without using Windows. |
| 13:53.35 | Lava_Croft | thats great |
| 13:53.42 | Lava_Croft | but do you have to be all religious about it |
| 13:54.05 | Lava_Croft | dont you know that when you are trying to sell a product to someone, going about and telling them that they are losers for using their current product instead of yours |
| 13:54.12 | Lava_Croft | is actually a quite, quite dumb business practice |
| 13:55.38 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:56.58 | alterego | m'hmmmm ... |
| 13:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: it's about time to send out tokens for election! |
| 13:59.54 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@201-42-113-183.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 14:03.09 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: See timsamoff's email on maemo-community. |
| 14:03.24 | DocScrutinizer | which one? |
| 14:03.37 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2011-March/004681.html |
| 14:03.55 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: It's a cock up |
| 14:04.49 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: see my comment on this thing called errrr.... http://maemo.org/community/council |
| 14:05.04 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 14:06.04 | DocScrutinizer | >>Please make sure this time the tokens are sent out quite a few days before start of voting period. I.E. >>00:00 UTC, 2011-03-14 (Monday): Voting opens<< means: send those tokens NOW! Otherwise it gets hard again to sort out things if anything fails - which it does usually (spamfilters, whatnot)...<< |
| 14:07.48 | GAN900 | The "hit by a bus" scenario hasn't been well provided for, clearly. |
| 14:08.20 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 14:09.26 | Jaffa | GAN900: /me mutters |
| 14:09.59 | SpeedEvil | What - we get to vote who to hit with a bus? |
| 14:10.17 | alterego | wonders what it'd take TI to provide OpenCL drivers .. |
| 14:10.23 | GAN900 | It'll give potential candidates more time to reconsider their plans. *g* |
| 14:10.24 | DocScrutinizer | not even the "holiday notice: 12.03. - 25.03." scenario has been taken account of. Last time quite a number of users received their tokens almost too late to use them at all, which basically makes any election moot, as it's based on equal rights for all users |
| 14:10.33 | GAN900 | SpeedEvil, we already did. We voted for you. :P |
| 14:10.39 | SpeedEvil | Fair enough. |
| 14:11.13 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 14:11.20 | GAN900 | New morning and I still don't see Android's appeal. |
| 14:11.44 | Venemo | alterego: OpenCL? |
| 14:11.46 | lcuk | speaking of androids |
| 14:11.53 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: forget it, that morning never will come... |
| 14:12.00 | lcuk | I put a motion activated R2D2 in the chocolate cupboard |
| 14:12.02 | lcuk | and waiting |
| 14:12.04 | lcuk | and waited |
| 14:12.05 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, almost a relief. |
| 14:12.05 | Venemo | GAN900, me neither |
| 14:12.26 | lcuk | the yelp and worried run upstairs a few minutes later was classic :D |
| 14:12.54 | GAN900 | Now I just need to source a cheap webOS device to confirm our mobile landscape is well and truly bleak. |
| 14:13.18 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: What "holiday notice"? |
| 14:14.07 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: last elections some users were on holiday during election period and had no way to check their email 3 times a day for the token |
| 14:14.48 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: And? The election should be postponed until every possible voter confirms their availability? |
| 14:15.05 | DocScrutinizer | they as well weren't able to do sth like a cron job for the vote, as the token wasn't sent even at the time the voting period started |
| 14:15.12 | GAN900 | I think the point is tokens need to go out as early as possible. |
| 14:15.19 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 14:15.46 | GAN900 | Either way, not much any of us in this room can do about it. |
| 14:15.50 | DocScrutinizer | voting period is scheduled to start in ONE week |
| 14:16.48 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: And it won't be, because there aren't any nominations because of a clusterfuck on many levels which I'm not happy about |
| 14:16.52 | DocScrutinizer | last time it took one week until I received my token, as Nokia mail was configured crappy enough to trigger 30% of spam filters |
| 14:17.27 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I suggest you respond to Tim's email because this isn't a conversation that should be happening here, but over there |
| 14:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | I think the post on http://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_community_council_elections_approaching/ is just good enough. No need for crossposting (except here where I can get immediate response possibly) |
| 14:18.46 | Venemo | okay, so |
| 14:19.18 | Venemo | please tell me, because I couldn't find much about the topic |
| 14:19.28 | Venemo | what has the Community Council done for us so far, in the let's say, last few months? |
| 14:19.54 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.org/community/council |
| 14:21.05 | jonwil | wonders if Nokia has EVER open-sourced a previously closed source pakage for Maemo |
| 14:21.20 | jonwil | or whether license-change-requests has been a total waste of time |
| 14:21.27 | Venemo | jonwil, yes, they did it once |
| 14:21.34 | lcuk | Venemo, a great amount of coordination around the CSSU for one. |
| 14:21.35 | jonwil | for which pakcage? |
| 14:21.44 | Venemo | CSSU is coordinated by MohammadAG |
| 14:21.56 | lcuk | Venemo, CSSU is a team effort |
| 14:22.07 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: nope, not exactly |
| 14:22.26 | Venemo | lcuk, it was started and is managed by MohammadAG |
| 14:22.37 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: nope, not exactly |
| 14:22.37 | lcuk | MohammadAG would say exactly the same, no one person could handle all aspects of it |
| 14:22.46 | Venemo | anyway. CSSU is a good thing and I see it on the linked page |
| 14:22.56 | Venemo | however there isn't anything else. just "state of Maemo" |
| 14:24.08 | Jaffa | Venemo: Read those. |
| 14:24.18 | DocScrutinizer | btw vote isn't about what recent council has done, but about what next council should do ;-) |
| 14:25.06 | Venemo | Jaffa: already did when they appeared. there is a lot of empty talk and little stuff actually happening |
| 14:25.10 | Venemo | Jaffa: no offence |
| 14:25.15 | Jaffa | Venemo: Offence taken, actually. |
| 14:25.31 | lcuk | Venemo, so specifically what/how would YOU do? |
| 14:25.42 | lcuk | have you put name down? |
| 14:25.54 | Venemo | I'm not a member of the council, and I don't wish to be. |
| 14:25.56 | GAN900 | Hehe |
| 14:25.57 | jonwil | Unfortunatly, Maemo council is like the OpenSolaris council and other similar organizations where there is little interaction with the parent software company |
| 14:26.05 | GAN900 | We have this discussion a lot. |
| 14:26.44 | GAN900 | jonwil, oh, there's plenty of INTERaction, just no action to go with it. ;) |
| 14:26.55 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:27.04 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-79-182.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:27.25 | Jaffa | Venemo: Coordinating Qt experimental so it doesn't break Qt apps in Extras; getting Maemo community members sponsored to the MeeGo conference, organising and coordinating with MohammadAG on the CSSU, acting as a point of contact for re-energising the licensing change request queue following the work done by jonwil & DocScrutinizer; clarifying maemo.org's funding status, trying to get balance the competing requirements and clamour for a community "fund", ... |
| 14:27.50 | jonwil | sounds good |
| 14:28.05 | lcuk | Jaffa, ok, that was last week, what about next week? |
| 14:28.30 | jonwil | hopes that the licensing-change-request stuff ends up being more than just some talk by a few nokia people and that it turns into actual code we can use |
| 14:28.31 | Jaffa | jonwil: Not sure how you can *quite* say that, given that qgil's acted on what we asked him to (although too early yet to know whether it was a positive outcome). It's also a *community* council, not a *Maemo* council. |
| 14:28.38 | Venemo | Jaffa: this sounds very good :) |
| 14:29.07 | Jaffa | jonwil: Even efforts which don't turn into code are still valuable, and shouldn't be diminished (because then people won't go out of their way next time) |
| 14:29.14 | Venemo | Jaffa: "Coordinating Qt experimental so it doesn't break Qt apps in Extras" -> exactly what coordination is this? Qt has a binary compability promise so it will never break any existing software. what work does this require on your part? |
| 14:29.14 | jonwil | yeah :) |
| 14:29.37 | Venemo | Jaffa: "getting Maemo community members sponsored to the MeeGo conference" -> this sounds good, no complaints here |
| 14:30.00 | lcuk | Venemo, did you vote in last election? |
| 14:30.06 | Venemo | yes I did lcuk |
| 14:30.10 | lcuk | :D |
| 14:30.12 | Jaffa | Venemo: Look, I'm not going to justify the last six months work I, and the others, have been doing. 1) I'm too busy; 2) I don't like having to do it. Go and read the maemo-developers threads about the Qt updates that were pushed to Extras-devel and broke everything, until the Council pushed for them to be renamed and tidied up. |
| 14:31.09 | Venemo | Jaffa: how could this happen, despite their binary compaibility policy? |
| 14:31.11 | Jaffa | Venemo: I'm sure you'd appreciate a Council if/when Nokia finally do decide to save some cash in 18 months time. |
| 14:31.14 | lcuk | Jaffa, I think Venemo is merely trying to engage and spark discussion :$ albeit a little brash and sandpaperish, I think we should do the interview style thing |
| 14:31.35 | lcuk | Venemo, would you care enough to put your questions into a mail |
| 14:31.42 | lcuk | that members of the council could reply in own time |
| 14:31.53 | Venemo | Jaffa: as I said, I mean no offence. I'm sure I'd appreciate your work if I actually knew what you guys are doing. this is all |
| 14:31.55 | lcuk | in irc, it is very realtime and would make answers rushed |
| 14:32.39 | DocScrutinizer | irc is volatile |
| 14:33.47 | Venemo | Jaffa: I actually voted for you :) |
| 14:34.06 | GAN900 | Venemo, same issue comes up at least every 6 months. |
| 14:34.17 | Venemo | GAN900: which is that same issue? |
| 14:34.26 | GAN900 | It gets rather exhausting justifying yourself all the time. ;) |
| 14:34.27 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I hope I can vote for you this time as well :-) |
| 14:34.35 | GAN900 | "What has the council done useful?" |
| 14:34.40 | lcuk | GAN900, then find a way to answer the repeated questions |
| 14:35.00 | lcuk | and a way that future counciles can fill in and add to with ease |
| 14:35.18 | lcuk | ie, build on work from previous! |
| 14:35.20 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: good point |
| 14:35.37 | Jaffa | lcuk: Like "Current hot topics" on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council ? |
| 14:35.56 | GAN900 | lcuk, don't have to, I'm not on it! :P |
| 14:36.16 | Jaffa | Anyway, the right people aren't standing (or getting elected); meaning you get one or two people being the public face of the council (because it needs doing) and 1-3 people doing all the work (because it needs doing) |
| 14:36.34 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Dunno yet. Not minded to let you, TBH ;-) |
| 14:36.37 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: You run instead ;-0 |
| 14:36.49 | Venemo | GAN900: I didn't say "justify". I just had some questions. |
| 14:36.52 | DocScrutinizer | runs and hides |
| 14:37.10 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:37.31 | *** join/#maemo steve___ (~steve___@unaffiliated/steve/x-19302814903) |
| 14:37.40 | lcuk | GAN900, in America, even former presidents still retain some title and stature :) |
| 14:37.54 | Jaffa | Venemo: You may have worded your initial question like that, but then you described the blog posts as "empty words", and denied the efforts around the CSSU |
| 14:38.12 | Venemo | Jaffa: I didn't deny anything, I was asking about stuff. |
| 14:38.26 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-113-254.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 14:38.49 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I think the small part of community suffering from my +o and mere contributions aka rant here in irc is just enough - humanity couldn't take more than that |
| 14:38.59 | lcuk | Jaffa, indeed |
| 14:39.11 | Jaffa | Venemo: "14:21 < Venemo> CSSU is coordinated by MohammadAG |
| 14:39.38 | Venemo | Jaffa, that's because thus far, I didn't know the Council was involved. |
| 14:39.44 | Jaffa | Venemo: So I'll just go and delete the wiki pages, the responses on the thread, the patches, the bug triaging etc that I've been doing |
| 14:40.05 | Venemo | Jaffa: chill down please |
| 14:40.12 | Jaffa | Venemo: You can't separate the Council from the members; because the Council is a way of the community saying "we like what you're doing, and what to recognise that you're doing it with our blessing" |
| 14:40.31 | Venemo | Jaffa: as I said, I'm just being curious. no offence. |
| 14:40.49 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: wellknown issue, a lot of people think MohammadAG has invented hostmode |
| 14:40.52 | Venemo | Jaffa: as for my wording, I'm not a native English speaker, so forgive me if my words are sometimes inappropriate. |
| 14:40.52 | Jaffa | Venemo: That then gives the Council stature when dealing with Nokia or the MeeGo CO; and some authority to facilitate within the community |
| 14:41.06 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: nah, everyone knows you invented it |
| 14:41.06 | RST38h | politely notices that the Council is largely irrelevant |
| 14:41.07 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, he did! :P |
| 14:41.18 | lcuk | (joking, again that was a team effort) |
| 14:41.48 | lcuk | but he did invent knight rider lights :O |
| 14:42.08 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 14:42.21 | lcuk | goes fooding |
| 14:42.34 | SpeedEvil | posted knight rider lights in awk aaaages ago. |
| 14:42.39 | Jaffa | Venemo: I'm not (that) offended. Just trying to emphasise that the Council is a badge given to 5 community members. Currently timsamoff, achipa, myself, andy80 & revdkathy. When I do stuff for the community, am I doing it because I'm on the council or because I want to? I'd probably have worried less about the CSSU wiki pages and TMO thread if I didn't have to. |
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| 14:44.19 | GAN900 | RST38h, might be less true than it was before Nokia decided to take a trip to Redmund. |
| 14:45.45 | Venemo | Jaffa: that's appreciated yes :) |
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| 14:48.56 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 14:52.15 | GAN900 | zerojay, ping? |
| 14:52.27 | zerojay | GAN900: pong. |
| 14:55.01 | Venemo | khertan_: ping |
| 14:55.04 | *** join/#maemo janfrank (~jan@178-223-232.connect.netcom.no) |
| 14:56.40 | *** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@212.144.117.125) |
| 14:58.26 | GAN900 | zerojay, how do I make Android slightly less useless? |
| 14:58.40 | GAN900 | Is CM7 the answer I'm looking for? |
| 14:58.43 | zerojay | GAN900: Open your eyes. |
| 14:58.53 | zerojay | I'm helping port CM7 to Captivate. |
| 14:59.14 | zerojay | CM's basically straight Android with some added features. |
| 14:59.19 | GAN900 | Right now I can't open them because I've put forks in them. :) |
| 14:59.35 | zerojay | What makes Android useless for you? |
| 15:00.34 | lcuk | GAN900, a 9 iron |
| 15:01.06 | GAN900 | Using it is incredibly frustrating |
| 15:01.15 | GAN900 | Things don't work as described |
| 15:01.15 | lcuk | RST38h suggested driving a WP7 phone, I think we should expand that (and record) seeing which phones go furthest at the driving range |
| 15:01.19 | zerojay | Like? |
| 15:01.34 | GAN900 | Settings don't seem to have much effect in a lot of the third party software. |
| 15:01.38 | GAN900 | So, Nook Color |
| 15:01.47 | GAN900 | No hardware keys |
| 15:02.02 | GAN900 | Supposed to install the SoftKeys service |
| 15:02.05 | psycho_oreos | some android phones does come with hardware keys |
| 15:02.14 | zerojay | Most Android phones have hardware keys. |
| 15:02.16 | psycho_oreos | motorola milestone for instance :p |
| 15:02.27 | zerojay | Can't think of any that don't off the top of my head. |
| 15:02.36 | GAN900 | Want to set it up so a single press on the home hardkey brings up the SoftKey bar |
| 15:02.52 | GAN900 | There's a setting for that, set it, but it has no effect. |
| 15:03.01 | zerojay | Well, there's something you have to understand here. |
| 15:03.06 | zerojay | That's not an "Android" problem. |
| 15:03.12 | GAN900 | It's like Windows? |
| 15:03.33 | GAN900 | Everything you have to install because the core is useless is more useless? :) |
| 15:03.53 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@89.241.12.248) |
| 15:03.54 | zerojay | You're using a hacked up alpha release on something that doesn't support it with software that isn't a part of core Android, so... |
| 15:03.56 | psycho_oreos | sounds similar to maemo 5's case :p |
| 15:04.28 | zerojay | In other words, don't blame Android for some random app not working properly on unsupported hardware with an alpha version of the OS. :) |
| 15:04.44 | GAN900 | OK, how about the fact that setting the desktop image sets it at about 1/4 resolution. |
| 15:04.54 | zerojay | See above. |
| 15:04.58 | GAN900 | zerojay, example #1 |
| 15:05.06 | GAN900 | And what part of the OS is alpha. |
| 15:05.12 | zerojay | CM7 is alpha. |
| 15:05.16 | zerojay | As a whole. |
| 15:05.25 | zerojay | Especially on that device. |
| 15:05.42 | GAN900 | Not using CM7 |
| 15:05.49 | GAN900 | On the semi-stock 2.1 |
| 15:05.50 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 15:06.02 | GAN900 | Wondering if CM7 is going to be less awful. |
| 15:06.12 | zerojay | CM7 is definitely better. |
| 15:06.17 | zerojay | It's based on Gingerbread, 2.3. |
| 15:06.54 | zerojay | Desktop image also assumes you'll be using multiple screens/workspaces. |
| 15:06.59 | zerojay | So it's probably spread out over them. |
| 15:07.11 | zerojay | You can disable that... but I'm not sure if that's what you are refering to or not. |
| 15:07.24 | GAN900 | Is there any way to get smooth browser scrolling. . . . |
| 15:08.09 | zerojay | You're using a Nook. |
| 15:08.50 | GAN900 | OMAP3621 with 512MB |
| 15:08.57 | zerojay | You're using a Nook. |
| 15:09.09 | GAN900 | Don't tell me that can't run WebKit as well as Maemo 5 runs Gecko. |
| 15:09.29 | zerojay | It should be smooth already. |
| 15:09.36 | GAN900 | It's not. |
| 15:09.49 | *** join/#maemo jaska__ (jaska@f948.ip11.netikka.fi) |
| 15:09.56 | GAN900 | Scrolling is at about 6fps. . . . |
| 15:10.19 | GAN900 | will laugh when MeeGo runs fine. |
| 15:10.47 | zerojay | Gingerbread will probably perform better but again, I don't have a hacked nook, so I can't say what can and can't be possible on that thing. |
| 15:11.06 | zerojay | FPS in general on Android is capped at 30fps. |
| 15:11.30 | zerojay | On average.. browser scrolling looks about half that. |
| 15:11.38 | zerojay | Least on my phone. |
| 15:11.50 | zerojay | It's not butter smooth, but it's far from choppy. |
| 15:11.55 | lcuk | capped by specific code, or capped because it will not run faster? |
| 15:12.10 | zerojay | It's capped in code. You can remove the cap easily as well. |
| 15:12.11 | lcuk | because on my n810 scrolling was at 33fps |
| 15:12.20 | jaska__ | kicks nickserv |
| 15:12.20 | zerojay | The only reason the cap is there at all is to reduce CPU use, really. |
| 15:12.33 | GAN900 | Looks like pulling a brick up a 2x4 covered in sandpaper. |
| 15:12.43 | zerojay | Average user wants battery life much more than 60fps. |
| 15:12.47 | zerojay | So.. makes sense. |
| 15:13.23 | zerojay | And I think if you want it higher, it's a simple change for power users. |
| 15:13.23 | lcuk | zerojay, specifically where is the cap ? |
| 15:13.30 | lcuk | ie is there code for it or documentaiton |
| 15:13.45 | zerojay | lcuk: I'm not sure. I haven't looked into it myself, just heard devs talk about it. I'll get back to you on it if you'd like. |
| 15:13.45 | lcuk | or how to unlock it |
| 15:13.56 | lcuk | it just sounds curious |
| 15:14.13 | lcuk | because with so many devices being underpowered seems more reasonable reason |
| 15:14.34 | zerojay | Seems like some devices have removed the cap already by default, like the EVO 4G. |
| 15:14.50 | *** join/#maemo thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
| 15:14.53 | zerojay | As far as I remember, it's just editing a text file and rebooting. |
| 15:15.05 | lcuk | isn't that the same as all development? |
| 15:15.20 | lcuk | just the size and number of text files varies |
| 15:15.24 | Lava_Croft | :D |
| 15:16.22 | zerojay | It looks like it's a little more involved. Basically a custom kernel. |
| 15:16.57 | GAN900 | How do I select between eMMC and SD on boot? |
| 15:18.40 | lcuk | GAN900, which device and what are you booting? |
| 15:20.07 | zerojay | GAN900: This seems to imply that there's nothing to do but have a proper file system on the card, but I don't know offhand.. never need to do it: http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/03/04/psa-please-dont-pay-80-for-a-nook-color-sd-card-that-runs-honeycomb/ |
| 15:21.00 | zerojay | Wish I could have bought a Nook Color and hacked it... they don't sell them in Canada at all. |
| 15:22.47 | lcuk | hang on, I just noticed this is maemo channel |
| 15:22.58 | lcuk | mistook it for something else |
| 15:24.28 | *** join/#maemo Gyjf (~Gyjf3@h224n2-m-rg-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 15:26.10 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-114.telpol.net.pl) |
| 15:26.47 | zerojay | It's been something else for almost a year already. |
| 15:28.06 | steve___ | zerojay: you are canuckistani? |
| 15:28.23 | zerojay | Yep. |
| 15:29.07 | GAN900 | Putting a bootable microSD in will boot it, but I'd rather be able to leave it in and choose in software. |
| 15:29.25 | zerojay | I don't know if anyone's done something like that. |
| 15:29.28 | GAN900 | Damn Canadians. |
| 15:29.50 | GAN900 | You send all of your crazy people down to spy on us as "tourists", don't you? |
| 15:30.10 | GAN900 | Yet another area where Maemo's superior. *g* |
| 15:30.25 | *** join/#maemo Passeli (~passeli@85-23-79-231.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 15:30.39 | zerojay | Doesn't matter when it's dead. :) |
| 15:30.41 | steve___ | yeah... all our agents are in Florida and are over the age of 60. |
| 15:31.05 | zerojay | lol |
| 15:31.09 | zerojay | No kidding. |
| 15:31.36 | steve___ | Not optimum but unassuming ;) |
| 15:31.54 | zerojay | Old and french. |
| 15:33.00 | steve___ | The CIA won't be able to decipher our bastardize "secret" language. |
| 15:34.04 | steve___ | ou est salle de bain!? |
| 15:34.26 | zerojay | Poutine. |
| 15:35.33 | steve___ | Moment later secret agent Gertrude doesn't make it and one hears "veit, ou est le napkin?!" |
| 15:35.52 | GAN900 | Or French Canadians |
| 15:36.12 | GAN900 | zerojay, less dead than it used to be |
| 15:36.19 | zerojay | How so? |
| 15:36.38 | GAN900 | and at least it's usable day-to-day (unlike Android) |
| 15:36.54 | GAN900 | Well, Nokia's not really coming out with much in the near future |
| 15:37.03 | GAN900 | and there's aren't any reasonable alternatives |
| 15:37.11 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@S0106001c10a3039c.vn.shawcable.net) |
| 15:37.14 | GAN900 | So people will be holding on to their N900s for longer |
| 15:37.26 | GAN900 | and the N900 Developer Edition is a thing now. |
| 15:38.34 | Lava_Croft | too bad about the N9 tho |
| 15:38.38 | Lava_Croft | it seems that one is kind of a goner |
| 15:38.48 | zerojay | It's sad seeing what's become of it all. |
| 15:38.54 | GAN900 | Elop |
| 15:38.59 | Lava_Croft | people blame elop |
| 15:39.04 | Lava_Croft | but elop didnt make nokia fail |
| 15:39.04 | GAN900 | Another damn useless thing coming out of Canada. |
| 15:39.13 | GAN900 | No |
| 15:39.18 | Lava_Croft | its not elops fault that nokia still is not competing with iphones and what not |
| 15:39.23 | GAN900 | The board that put him there did. |
| 15:39.46 | GAN900 | Shortsighted Finnish arrogance. |
| 15:39.48 | Lava_Croft | the same board that also made nokia fail |
| 15:40.00 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-142-117-100.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
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| 15:40.20 | Lava_Croft | tihs windows stuff is just shortterm |
| 15:40.35 | zerojay | I don't think elop was the problem. |
| 15:40.43 | zerojay | Nokia's been in big trouble for quite some time. |
| 15:40.44 | Lava_Croft | elop wasnt/isnt at all |
| 15:40.50 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-103-29.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 15:40.53 | GAN900 | Just the result and the final nail in the coffin. |
| 15:41.02 | Lava_Croft | but thats all speculation from doomsayers |
| 15:41.05 | zerojay | The added emphasis on Maemo being the company's savior when it was just a research project.. come on. |
| 15:41.16 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.123) |
| 15:41.26 | GAN900 | Maemo could've beaten the iPhone to market |
| 15:41.33 | GAN900 | If Nokia had positioned it to. |
| 15:41.36 | Lava_Croft | to market, maybe, but not much more |
| 15:41.36 | zerojay | It would have been eaten alive. |
| 15:42.12 | GAN900 | It'd be a different landscape if they had actually run with it. |
| 15:42.41 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 15:42.43 | Lava_Croft | cant compare maemo to ios at all |
| 15:42.46 | Lava_Croft | they serve different markets |
| 15:42.46 | GAN900 | Instead we're faced with picking between an evil that pretends to be good, an evil that doesn't and some thing from HP. |
| 15:42.47 | zerojay | No. |
| 15:42.57 | *** join/#maemo jakemaheu (~user@c-76-112-80-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 15:43.19 | zerojay | It wasn't ever meant to be something mainstream. |
| 15:43.23 | GAN900 | Lava_Croft, could've been competition money-wise if they had actually pushed it as something other than an understaffed, underfunded research project. |
| 15:43.36 | jakemaheu | Good morning, infobot. |
| 15:43.39 | Lava_Croft | but maemo would never have been a factor |
| 15:43.45 | Lava_Croft | its for mobile computers, not smartphones |
| 15:43.51 | GAN900 | Maemo 5 is damn close to something that'd make real money. |
| 15:43.54 | Lava_Croft | nokia has nothing for smartphones, besides this windows7 thing now |
| 15:43.57 | GAN900 | Exactly. |
| 15:44.07 | GAN900 | smartphones aren't the future. |
| 15:44.13 | zerojay | They pushed our little project out into the spotlight because they had nothing else and they needed to look like they had SOMETHING. And I remember saying that as soon as they had something else, they would leave Maemo in the dust... and they did exactly that. |
| 15:44.16 | GAN900 | Mobile computers are. |
| 15:44.17 | Lava_Croft | they might not be, but currently they do make you money |
| 15:44.29 | *** join/#maemo GNUtoo|laptop (~gnutoo@host157-58-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:44.29 | Lava_Croft | and i think even elop said the mobile computer stuff is still the future |
| 15:44.35 | Lava_Croft | not in those words, but still |
| 15:44.46 | Lava_Croft | but nokia isnt exactly in a position to wait some more years |
| 15:44.50 | GAN900 | Not if you're running with WP7 or Android. |
| 15:45.00 | Lava_Croft | why not |
| 15:45.07 | Lava_Croft | development on mobile computers will not die |
| 15:45.35 | GAN900 | I'm not OK with an advertising company providing my mobile device platform. |
| 15:45.37 | zerojay | Smartphones have already devoured the mobile computer. |
| 15:46.08 | GAN900 | Only because the big players like the status quo. |
| 15:46.12 | zerojay | Everything the average user wants to do with a mobile device, smartphones do now pretty much. |
| 15:46.19 | Lava_Croft | and they do it very well too |
| 15:46.27 | GAN900 | Mobile computers don't funnel as much money into people's pockets. |
| 15:46.40 | Lava_Croft | mobile computers are not for the mainstream |
| 15:46.43 | zerojay | There's little difference anymore between "mobile computers" and "smartphones" anyways. |
| 15:46.46 | *** part/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
| 15:46.53 | Lava_Croft | zerojay: well, the OS kind of is |
| 15:47.16 | zerojay | Linux on both sides. |
| 15:47.27 | zerojay | Command lines on both sides. |
| 15:47.48 | Lava_Croft | and still meamo5 is like a desktop OS and android like a smartphone OS |
| 15:48.12 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.7) |
| 15:48.15 | zerojay | but that difference is mainly a visual one at this point. |
| 15:48.25 | GAN900 | Lava_Croft, mobile computers are going to largely subvert laptops. |
| 15:48.26 | Lava_Croft | sure |
| 15:48.40 | GAN900 | zerojay, and usability. :) |
| 15:48.56 | Lava_Croft | that is very subjective |
| 15:49.11 | zerojay | You certainly can't claim that Maemo is more useable for the average person than iOS or Android. |
| 15:49.22 | zerojay | For guys like us, perhaps. |
| 15:49.37 | Lava_Croft | iOS is a really slick experience, for my wife |
| 15:49.43 | Lava_Croft | to me, its just really annoying |
| 15:49.58 | Lava_Croft | my wife laughs at the n900 and its clunky interface |
| 15:50.12 | GAN900 | Dunno, every average person I've put Maemo in the hands of enjoys using it. |
| 15:50.15 | thomasjfox | Lava_Croft: get a divorce? :o) |
| 15:50.18 | Lava_Croft | thomasjfox: why? |
| 15:50.20 | Lava_Croft | :D |
| 15:50.28 | Lava_Croft | that way I'd lose the iPhone |
| 15:50.33 | thomasjfox | lol |
| 15:50.35 | Lava_Croft | and i couldnt play any games on it! :D |
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| 15:53.01 | lcuk | Lava_Croft, how old are you out of interest? |
| 15:53.09 | khertan_ | hate visual studio ... properties of project is so easy to found that i finally edit the project with an xml editor ... grrr 1h30 lost |
| 15:53.17 | Lava_Croft | lcuk: heh? |
| 15:53.21 | zerojay | Maemo could have really gotten somewhere, but the one thing that drives a mobile OS or phone these days is the apps. Maemo just didn't have them. |
| 15:53.36 | jakemaheu | Is it bad to use your tablet at a funeral? |
| 15:53.53 | zerojay | Depends. |
| 15:53.56 | zerojay | Is it yours? |
| 15:54.01 | lcuk | jakemaheu, it depends - probably a bit offputting using it to fly helicopter around etc |
| 15:54.06 | jakemaheu | lol |
| 15:54.09 | khertan_ | GAN900, my wife didn't like the ui and like his iOS one, while i found the iOS one horrible and always be lost with it |
| 15:54.45 | zerojay | I can handle iOS and not gag, but I'm just not a fan of the style nor of Apple. |
| 15:54.46 | jakemaheu | You still burn your hands when you cook bacon, lcuk? :P |
| 15:54.54 | lcuk | zerojay, it is all about the apps of course |
| 15:55.12 | khertan_ | zerojay, depends on use case ... Android didn't well support python, iphone didn't like interpreted language like python ... so maemo have for me the best apps :) |
| 15:55.14 | lcuk | but would be even better for the required apps to be a part of the OS for a seamless experience |
| 15:55.34 | *** join/#maemo GNUtoo|laptop (~gnutoo@host157-58-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:56.06 | zerojay | Yeah, I agree. |
| 15:56.11 | lcuk | jakemaheu, i never burn my hands when cooking bacon |
| 15:56.21 | jakemaheu | suuuure |
| 15:56.21 | alterego | I think maemo/meego has a higher ability for synergy between apps and os. |
| 15:56.32 | lcuk | i just put a rasher on my n900 keyboard, close it and play some movies and games for a bit |
| 15:56.33 | alterego | iPhone apps are basically self contained lolly pops |
| 15:56.38 | lcuk | it even "bings" when its cooked |
| 15:56.55 | lcuk | Lava_Croft, :O you PMed the reply |
| 15:57.08 | alterego | Same goes for Android apps, maemo/meego apps are real applications in the same sense that a desktop app is a fully blown application. |
| 15:57.14 | zerojay | alterego: What scares me is seeing that mentality crossing over to desktops. |
| 15:57.24 | jakemaheu | lcuk, Any new stuff coming to liqbase? |
| 15:57.26 | alterego | We can also introspect much deeper. |
| 15:57.33 | lcuk | alterego, that has its own problem with desktop app startup times |
| 15:57.34 | lcuk | ;) |
| 15:57.51 | alterego | And integrate and provide our own interfaces to our own services for everyone else. |
| 15:57.55 | khertan_ | zerojay, it s already in progress look at the content of the mac storre |
| 15:58.05 | zerojay | khertan_: That's what I'm talking about. |
| 15:58.05 | alterego | lcuk: well sure, there are obviously short comings. |
| 15:58.24 | lcuk | jakemaheu, I tweak as I can, been concentrating on proper OS for a bit, here is recent screenshot to give idea of what I have been upto: http://liqbase.net/liq.meego.r&d.n900.and.ideapad.fullspeed.20110220_011.jpg |
| 15:58.28 | khertan_ | YOUHOU !!!! Python for 4D pass the test ! |
| 15:58.30 | khertan_ | Yihha ! |
| 15:58.37 | trx | if my app depends on qt libs to compile, do i need to include qt libs in Build-Depends in deb control file for the autobuilder or are they allready there? |
| 15:58.38 | khertan_ | i can now code in python inside 4D |
| 15:58.39 | khertan_ | :) |
| 15:58.56 | alterego | trx: yes |
| 15:58.58 | GAN900 | zerojay, because it didn't have support from the manufacturer |
| 15:59.12 | lcuk | jakemaheu, that photo shows what I thought MeeGo would have - true balance and scalability from handset up |
| 15:59.20 | alterego | trx: you should put all the -dev packages you need to compile in that field. |
| 15:59.25 | GAN900 | That's a function of shipping a usable devkit and shipping more than a million or two devices. |
| 15:59.43 | GAN900 | The difference between Nokia supporting and not supporting the platform. |
| 15:59.47 | trx | alterego i only need .so's |
| 15:59.51 | lcuk | jakemaheu, all the UI in liqbase is now using my handwriting :) truly personal apps |
| 16:00.05 | trx | alterego do i still need to include them? |
| 16:00.06 | jaska | "encrypted" text |
| 16:00.39 | alterego | trx: you need headers to compile your application, those are in -dev packages, debian packaging will work out the libs you need itself. |
| 16:00.56 | trx | alterego i dont use C headers, i have my own headers |
| 16:01.17 | jakemaheu | lcuk, that's epic :D |
| 16:01.26 | lcuk | jakemaheu, it is a start. |
| 16:01.31 | alterego | trx: So you're not using Qt? |
| 16:01.55 | trx | alterego i am using Qt but i have pascal bindings |
| 16:02.05 | trx | so i only need the .so's to be there |
| 16:02.27 | alterego | trx: well, your pascal bindings should depend on Qt then .. |
| 16:02.44 | alterego | And you should depend on your bindings. |
| 16:03.06 | trx | ok, thank you alterego |
| 16:03.13 | alterego | np |
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| 16:03.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | GAN900: (smartphone !=future, mobile computers == future) well, tell that Nokia and meego team. Maemo was targeted at "desktop look and feel, and performance, on your handset" </quote Nokia>. Meego handset UX clearly isn't. And for the other poster claiming there's little diff tween smartphones & laptops: that's true for UX when done right, it's not exactly correct for low level system requirements, as a tablet or PC still isn't define |
| 16:03.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | d as always on, running several days from one battery, with resume latency <<0.5s |
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| 16:04.47 | SwedeMike | trend doesn't seem to prioritize multi-day battery life. |
| 16:04.48 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.7) |
| 16:04.56 | ruskie | sadly yeah |
| 16:05.46 | SwedeMike | well, I guess consumers get what they ask for, people are more interested in performance than multi-day battery life |
| 16:06.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | haha |
| 16:06.41 | lcuk | if you build using principles of optimisation and minimalism, then those users with heavy patterns get what they want and the people who want long idle life get that too |
| 16:06.53 | ruskie | yup |
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| 16:07.04 | lcuk | SwedeMike, most people make noise about performance |
| 16:07.55 | lcuk | "I am running 14 browsers with 8 flash instances in each and it is juddering" |
| 16:08.01 | ruskie | gee |
| 16:08.06 | ruskie | how about actually closing some of that |
| 16:08.18 | lcuk | ie enough computing power to bring down a whole cluster |
| 16:08.18 | ruskie | wants an auto-cluehammer device |
| 16:08.28 | GAN900 | Well, no surprise when you're dealing with Java. |
| 16:08.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: that's not entirely correct. To truely optimize you need better understanding of a platform hw than that applied in meego universal kernel |
| 16:09.07 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, each platform has its own kernel differentiation |
| 16:09.17 | SwedeMike | well, I there is probably a lot more to do for power efficiency both in os and hw, but the fact that the screen needs a lot of juice is probably hard to fix, so we're going to need better batteries to handle multi-hour usage regardless of what's done in other areas. |
| 16:09.19 | lcuk | the TSG standards were changed last year to specifically allow this |
| 16:09.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | oooh wow |
| 16:09.40 | lcuk | so there is an N900 adaption kernel and one for lardman|home's device etc |
| 16:09.46 | khertan_ | SwedeMike, the most problem is that user want bling bling graphical interface that drain battery with heavy cpu use |
| 16:09.50 | lcuk | ie, you dismiss things too easily |
| 16:09.51 | khertan_ | s/m |
| 16:09.55 | khertan_ | s/most/main |
| 16:11.13 | SwedeMike | khertan_: well, yes, but it seems one needs a lot of cpu power to just render web pages... and looking at how much power the screen draws when lit up and when the radio is used, I don't see huge improvements anytime close, even though there are of course a lot that has been done in at least other OSes |
| 16:11.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | SwedeMike: this shows the problem pretty much. Your basic assumptions are flawed. On standby a phone isn't always powering the screen, and that's the situation that needs most thoughts and optimizations and gets the lest love though |
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| 16:12.25 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, psst again, it is being dealt with |
| 16:12.29 | GAN900 | Isn't MeeGo a dictatorship now that valhalla's left? |
| 16:13.11 | SwedeMike | DocScrutinizer51: of course, if one doesn't use the phone then the screen is off, but if one wants IM always-on etc, the radio needs to be on and that uses a lot of power because as soon as the phone is out of idle-mode radiowise, a lot of juice is used. |
| 16:13.15 | lcuk | Valhalla has not left, he just changed root |
| 16:13.36 | SwedeMike | DocScrutinizer51: I was talking about actually using the phone a few hours per day as well as keeping good standby |
| 16:14.03 | zerojay | SwedeMike: A lot of IM programs now use push notification, so... far less need to be using the radio. |
| 16:14.09 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, I pinged you on #meego relating to your point about kernel optimisations |
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| 16:14.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | SwedeMike: still I get 2 days online with IRC, as long as I don't "use" the phone. And that's not going to happen on meego |
| 16:14.46 | SwedeMike | zerojay: well, most of them still need to wake up once every few minutes to keepalive the TCP connections, which brings the radio out of idle and it takes 30 seconds to go back. |
| 16:14.47 | GAN900 | Ugh, Canadian tourists are eating my soul. |
| 16:15.09 | lcuk | GAN900, what colour book are they after ? |
| 16:15.15 | SwedeMike | DocScrutinizer51: well, I don't even get 16 hours out of my N900 if I'm connected to a 3G networks with 3 IM programs running.... I probably don't even get 8 hours. |
| 16:15.36 | GAN900 | lcuk, their accents are too thick, I can't tell! *g* |
| 16:15.37 | SwedeMike | DocScrutinizer51: with maemo that is... |
| 16:15.45 | lcuk | haha |
| 16:15.45 | zerojay | SwedeMike: That's not how it works. |
| 16:16.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | sure, 3G is a hog, 2G is much better |
| 16:16.23 | SwedeMike | zerojay: really? so how does it handle CGNs/NATs that wipe sessions from it's NAT table after some inactivity? |
| 16:17.01 | lcuk | SwedeMike, as stated, if you are using data only for IM< perhaps try the 2g lock thing |
| 16:17.27 | ShadowJK_ | my operator doesn't do NAT :) |
| 16:17.31 | SwedeMike | lcuk: that's a workaround, not a solution. |
| 16:17.53 | lcuk | SwedeMike, well you can try it at least |
| 16:17.58 | zerojay | SwedeMike: Read up about push. |
| 16:17.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | there's no solution inside 3G specs |
| 16:17.58 | SwedeMike | ShadowJK_: mine doesn't either, but we're going to have to do it in the near future (I work for a 2G/3G/4G/ADSL/fixed line operator) |
| 16:18.25 | ShadowJK_ | my NATted connection has about 4 day timeout :) |
| 16:18.46 | SwedeMike | zerojay: you're talking about operator run push now? |
| 16:19.36 | ShadowJK_ | Screen at low brightness is about 60-100mA I guess, and hsdpa seems to run at around 600mA |
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| 16:20.44 | SwedeMike | ShadowJK_: all the more important that all applications sync up their chatter so they all bring the phone out of idle at the same time so HS resource can be left down most of the time. |
| 16:20.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | see wiki |
| 16:21.14 | ShadowJK_ | yeah, see libiphb |
| 16:21.26 | ShadowJK_ | not that many things use it :( |
| 16:21.41 | SwedeMike | would also be nice if the phone could signal to the network that it wants to go to idle, right now as far as I have been told, it's the network that has a defined timeout for traffic before telling the phone to go to idle. |
| 16:21.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil and some of me there are decent figures on virtually everything regarding power consumption |
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| 16:22.40 | ShadowJK_ | SwedeMike, yep, network decides it all |
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| 16:22.56 | lcuk | ShadowJK_, wouldn't this clustering be better at the low level interface end |
| 16:23.03 | lcuk | so that it was not down to apps themselves |
| 16:23.22 | ShadowJK_ | The operator here with friendliest policy for always-on on 3g is also the slowest. There's probably a tradeoff thing going on |
| 16:23.59 | SwedeMike | so ideal would be for the phone to signal that it wants to go out of idle, get HS, do the chatter needed in a few seconds to update whatever presence etc, and then go back to idle. Would save both network resources and phone battery. |
| 16:24.02 | ShadowJK_ | lcuk, well generally you want webpage to start downloading immediately and not 2 minutes from now :P |
| 16:24.54 | zerojay | Android lets you set |
| 16:24.59 | zerojay | er. |
| 16:25.02 | ShadowJK_ | I suspect that with hsdpa if a phone wants to go into idle or leave idle it involves a dozen other phones too |
| 16:25.13 | zerojay | Hit Return there when I meant to erase... damn angles. |
| 16:25.25 | lcuk | ShadowJK_, difference between interactive activation (ie when screen on and user infront of it) and when the device is idle |
| 16:26.20 | ShadowJK_ | I made the machine with my irc proxy block traffic to my phone for 2 minutes at a time, and unblock until tcp retransmissions have sent it all :) |
| 16:26.22 | SwedeMike | ShadowJK_: well, if the applications can say "we're all done now for a while, thanks" then at least the phone should be able to hint the network that it doesn't forsee any more traffic in the near future and can go to idle. I guess 3GPP didn't want this for some reason. |
| 16:27.37 | ShadowJK_ | Well, after traffic has stopped moving, it seems to return to idle at the next opportunity? |
| 16:28.11 | zerojay | Android has a state called "auto-sync" that apps that want to pull down data from time to time use. Some apps allow you to turn off the radio or turn it down to 2G until X minutes, then jump to 3G/whatever, turn on auto-sync for x minutes then turn radio back off again. |
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| 16:28.39 | SwedeMike | ShadowJK_: in our network, that means 30 seconds until it goes to idle. It releases the HS resource fairly quickly though, think it's after just a few seconds. |
| 16:29.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK_: lcuk: we discussed that issue on OM community, my suggestion been to use different network devices with their own specific properties (like timeout despite inbound traffic, buffer/dont, et all) can be implemented mostly on netfilter level |
| 16:29.06 | ShadowJK_ | 5 seconds for hsdpa->wcdma with my operator |
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| 16:30.23 | SwedeMike | zerojay: are you sure about the jumping between 2G and 3G? That sounds like a lot of location updates that'd use quite a lot of battery in itself, also hinder incoming calls for a few seconds every time it happens. |
| 16:30.38 | zerojay | Yes, I'm sure. |
| 16:30.53 | SpeedEvil | Ah - database sanitisation. |
| 16:30.57 | SpeedEvil | http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=270129164 |
| 16:30.59 | ShadowJK_ | forcing dual to 2g takes about a second for me on n900? |
| 16:31.09 | zerojay | You can decide if you want to simply drop to 2g or drop completely. |
| 16:31.22 | SpeedEvil | (only for those with a tesco login) |
| 16:31.36 | zerojay | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=807989 |
| 16:33.22 | SwedeMike | zerojay: that URL is for a beta application and doesn't seem to be included as standard in android? |
| 16:33.32 | zerojay | Correct. |
| 16:33.50 | ShadowJK_ | Alot of third party apps don't use the maemo APIs for connectivity at all, so Maemo has no idea of when those apps use or dont use internet :/ |
| 16:33.56 | zerojay | I never claimed the automatic switching was default in Android. |
| 16:34.01 | ruskie | sadly yeah |
| 16:34.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | you could even implement a status menu slider for connection-speed vs power saving, similar to brightness slider |
| 16:34.15 | ruskie | though why should the app actually do it... |
| 16:34.19 | ruskie | just add a kernel listener for it |
| 16:34.33 | ShadowJK_ | eh? |
| 16:34.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | netfilter! |
| 16:34.56 | ruskie | there's even a kernel patch that can rereoute all connections through a socks proxy |
| 16:36.08 | zerojay | There's an app called Droidwall that lets you change the ipfilter options on an app-by-app basis. |
| 16:36.10 | zerojay | Very simple. |
| 16:36.29 | zerojay | App name, on/off 3g, on/off Wifi |
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| 16:36.39 | zerojay | No reason something like that couldn't work on Maemo. |
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| 16:37.13 | ShadowJK_ | indeed :P |
| 16:37.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | you need a per-app configuration of dynamic rules aka policies for handling traffic. Those policies also are aware of all the other connection properties like port numbers etc, same as (or even in) netfilter |
| 16:37.40 | ShadowJK_ | you can match by pid atleast, maybe process name too |
| 16:38.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | heh zerojay bet me on that |
| 16:38.12 | zerojay | Bet you on what? |
| 16:38.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | beat* |
| 16:39.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | just I think the policies should be much more versatile |
| 16:39.48 | zerojay | I think the way it works on Android is it blocks based on the Intent being used at the time. |
| 16:40.23 | zerojay | Haven't looked into it. |
| 16:42.05 | ShadowJK_ | you could block everything that hasn't specifically asked for access through maemo connectivity APIs and don't coordinate through iphb (or the higher level things that use libiphb), but it'd be tremendously unpopular move ;p |
| 16:42.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | there need to be per-app threholds and timeouts for 2G<->3G switching, sync to other app groups (aka network /dev-ices) for bundling transmissions |
| 16:42.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | etc pp |
| 16:43.13 | ShadowJK_ | I just use 2g all the time, except when I want to download stuff in gpodder ;p |
| 16:43.39 | ShadowJK_ | 234kbit/s is faster than any modern browser renders on less than 4Ghz anyway ;D |
| 16:43.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | so your policy set should handle that for you |
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| 16:44.12 | SwedeMike | ShadowJK_: you actually get 234kbit/s regularily on 2G? I only get that in our lab :P |
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| 16:44.36 | SwedeMike | even though EDGE is a huge step up from non-edge :P |
| 16:44.47 | ShadowJK_ | well 24500 bytes/sec :P |
| 16:44.56 | ShadowJK_ | Yes, regulary |
| 16:45.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK_: quite simple gpodder should use another network device than the rest |
| 16:46.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | the gpoder network device shall enable 3G while the other device will try to keep things on 2G |
| 16:47.04 | ShadowJK_ | Or I could monitor traffic on gprs0 and send the signal on dbus to switch to Dual mode if it sits peaked at 24500 for a while ;p |
| 16:47.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's what network devices are meant for |
| 16:48.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK_: that's one of the extended policies to implement in netfilters |
| 16:48.35 | ShadowJK_ | on my old Nokia E75 I could hold 3 gprs connections simultaneously, all with its own public IP :D |
| 16:49.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | bbl |
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| 17:06.54 | Venemo | MohammadAG: ping |
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| 17:22.58 | RST38h | GNOME To Lose Minimize, Maximize Buttons |
| 17:23.16 | RST38h | politely asks the Tentacled One to lunch on some people |
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| 17:25.17 | lcuk | RST38h, it *might* be ok, but for as long as this bug exists it will frustrate people |
| 17:25.18 | lcuk | http://liqbase.net/metacity_bug_436537/ubuntu_gnome_metacity_closebutton_fail.htm |
| 17:25.26 | lcuk | (if they need to double click title bar to make it work) |
| 17:26.51 | GAN900 | I haven't used a maximize button in about 5 years. |
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| 17:27.03 | GAN900 | Minimize maybe a bit less than that. |
| 17:27.06 | RST38h | I use minimize buttons though |
| 17:27.14 | GAN900 | Maximize is a Windows button |
| 17:27.22 | GAN900 | Doesn't Microsoft have a shortcut for that? |
| 17:27.44 | Sc0rpius | he's talking about GNOME |
| 17:28.17 | GAN900 | Sc0rpius, yes, I understand, but RST38h uses Windows. |
| 17:28.57 | lcuk | GAN900, ? he upgraded? last I heard RST38h was still on DOS 5.0 |
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| 17:30.27 | Sc0rpius | did you see that video upgrading from DOS5.0 to every Windows released but Me? |
| 17:30.45 | lcuk | Sc0rpius, yeah |
| 17:30.47 | lcuk | it was cool |
| 17:30.52 | Sc0rpius | yeah pretty cool :) |
| 17:31.19 | Sc0rpius | for those who didn't watch it: http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/03/charting-the-upgrade-path-from-dos-5-0-to-windows-7-video/ |
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| 17:48.14 | RST38h | moos evilly at javispedro |
| 17:48.19 | javispedro | moo RST38h |
| 17:49.19 | user_ | anyone know of a 7" ARM tablet with a resistve screen that has a bit more resources than a smartq? |
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| 17:53.58 | user_ | meego on archos it now that's a possibility |
| 17:54.37 | user_ | not 7" but better than n900 for work |
| 17:55.02 | ds3 | build your own |
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| 17:56.57 | RST38h | Hmmm, Android has got viruses |
| 17:57.14 | RST38h | What happened to the supposedly "safe" Java environment? |
| 18:02.47 | user_ | RST38h: lol |
| 18:03.11 | user_ | ds3: thanks for the advice? |
| 18:03.16 | user_ | lol |
| 18:03.18 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: do you think I CBA to repeat my rant in #meego for the 794th time? No way dude, it's been lcuk who thought he can lure me in by pointing me to a bug where they work on power management for >6 months now. I'm still not interested in meego though, as for me a RE'd and FOSS'ed maemo is the better OS than meego every day. And my rant about N950 was just to show the aimless effort in meego, regarding what *I* expect from a handheld OS & |
| 18:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | hw |
| 18:04.32 | RST38h | Doc: Man, you have worked on OpenMoko, nobody can doubt your FOSS priorities after that :) |
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| 18:06.40 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I prefer a maemo with closed bits over a meego with missing bits and rotten foundation and targeted to mimic iPhone rather than trying to become a viable NIT |
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| 18:07.48 | GAN900 | It's alway good when the former police chief goes to the funeral of the guy who killed two cops, but not the cops'. |
| 18:08.27 | DocScrutinizer | I'd rather port maemo4/diablo to N900 than try to live with meego handset UX, to state an exaggerated one |
| 18:10.28 | DocScrutinizer | some nerds invented a UX and claim that's what everybody has to like on his next NIT. I beg to differ |
| 18:11.09 | GAN900 | lol |
| 18:11.25 | GAN900 | I guess we'll see what it actually looks like when it's actually usable. |
| 18:11.45 | DocScrutinizer | on my metrics that's never then |
| 18:12.16 | GAN900 | we'll see |
| 18:12.20 | GAN900 | ever the optimist |
| 18:12.31 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: "targeted to mimic iPhone" |
| 18:12.39 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: don't confuse the UX with the OS |
| 18:13.15 | GAN900 | Guy just called asking for a book: "Smallest Programming Language in the World" |
| 18:13.19 | DocScrutinizer | I simply don't get the rationale in adopting a new buggy OS with a mickey mouse UX targeted to what hw exactly? A N950 that comes with a crappy c-ts? NAH! |
| 18:13.25 | GAN900 | I wanted to ask: "What is Brainfuck?" |
| 18:13.31 | javispedro | RST38h: Android. Sigh. |
| 18:13.45 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what's c-ts? |
| 18:13.51 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I was not trying to lure you in, but merely pointing out where you observed no attention had been paid that there infact was and is |
| 18:13.53 | DocScrutinizer | capacitive touchscren |
| 18:13.58 | lcuk | will shush though |
| 18:14.02 | GAN900 | javispedro, iknorite? |
| 18:14.04 | javispedro | Today our beloved *oid Android emulator guy violated the GPL again. everyone applauded. |
| 18:14.06 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:14.06 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: ah. |
| 18:14.11 | javispedro | android open? my ass. |
| 18:14.33 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, MeeGo UX that everyone saw at first was console only |
| 18:14.38 | lcuk | that is not mickey mouse :P |
| 18:14.58 | GAN900 | Android is a pernicious disease. |
| 18:15.16 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: well, that's what the consumers prefer. me or you maybe not, but we're not the target audience with whom they can make money |
| 18:15.18 | DocScrutinizer | all the details about taskswitcher to sketches of desktop are mickey mouse though |
| 18:15.34 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I agree with your thoughts on MeeGo handset UX |
| 18:15.48 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: this is why people are porting hildon-desktop to MeeGo |
| 18:16.32 | DocScrutinizer | useless effort. For N950? For N900 even?? |
| 18:16.32 | lcuk | wonders what the DocScrutinizer UX would look and feel like. |
| 18:16.53 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: smoku runs it on his ideapad currently :) |
| 18:17.13 | *** join/#maemo ptl (~patola@unaffiliated/ptl) |
| 18:17.20 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, you are very focused on MeeGo == one or two devices |
| 18:17.22 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I don't know anything about an "N950" either, but most likely I'm not going to be one of its buyers. |
| 18:17.30 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: not really. You just say that to make me contribute to a stillborn project |
| 18:17.31 | lcuk | MeeGo is buildable on a wide range of things |
| 18:17.38 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, not at all |
| 18:17.53 | lcuk | i hear you moaning in lots of places but less of what you would actually like! |
| 18:18.11 | lcuk | yes, you want a tablet/phone thingy, but what should it look like |
| 18:18.16 | lcuk | what should it act like |
| 18:18.17 | lcuk | etc |
| 18:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | like diablo, with a few hildon/fremantle aigments. It's just fine for me |
| 18:18.54 | DocScrutinizer | augments* |
| 18:19.24 | lcuk | have you tried building hildon diablo on fremantle device? |
| 18:19.34 | lcuk | ie Maemo 4 us ontop of Maemo5 |
| 18:19.38 | DocScrutinizer | the fremantle taskswitcher is actually bearable with MHD and tab-emu |
| 18:19.42 | lcuk | it is all OSS |
| 18:20.02 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what are MHD and tab-emu? |
| 18:20.14 | DocScrutinizer | the meego taskswitcher... oh my last I heard it's wose than windows |
| 18:20.22 | DocScrutinizer | worse* |
| 18:20.44 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, again, the UX is not equal to the OS. |
| 18:20.48 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 18:21.50 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I'm well aware of that. The OS is rotten on some of the foundatin blocks though, as it's been architected by x86 centric laptop dudes, not embedded folks |
| 18:22.18 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: so, if you are an embedded folk, why don't you step up and help them? |
| 18:22.19 | lcuk | I remember when CmdrTaco slated the ipod |
| 18:22.27 | lcuk | "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." |
| 18:22.29 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: because that' |
| 18:22.31 | DocScrutinizer | s |
| 18:22.46 | DocScrutinizer | not appreciated and often received as insult |
| 18:22.50 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools -> Ctrl+F -> no results for MHD nor tab-emu |
| 18:23.12 | DocScrutinizer | and honestly I don't see meego in my future live, no matter if I contribute or not |
| 18:23.13 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx_ (~i515i@178.126.245.197) |
| 18:23.33 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: if someone can help MeeGo get it right, it's you |
| 18:24.01 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: |
| 18:24.02 | DocScrutinizer | ## new: with ctrl-BS for nice taskswitching, see |
| 18:24.04 | DocScrutinizer | ## http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html |
| 18:24.05 | DocScrutinizer | ## and http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.screenshots/joerg900.10092 video |
| 18:24.12 | Venemo | oh, that! |
| 18:24.20 | Venemo | yeah, I find that nice too :) |
| 18:24.42 | DocScrutinizer | life* ^^^ |
| 18:25.04 | Venemo | sorry, I didn't know you meant this :) |
| 18:25.49 | Venemo | so DocScrutinizer, what would be your preferred mobile OS? |
| 18:26.23 | javispedro | fires up disas, let's see which versions did this guy use |
| 18:26.37 | pupnik_ | mornin |
| 18:26.42 | lcuk | boots Workbench 1.3 |
| 18:26.44 | javispedro | morning pupnik_ |
| 18:26.56 | Venemo | hey pupnik_ |
| 18:26.59 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: no, meego product specs and UX guidelines have been writtten in stone when those Nokia and Intel dudes sat together in a bar and sketched the system on a papertowel after 7 beers. Now everybody is "free to add patches, after we finished initial version <of a arbitrary subsystem completely unsuited for the purpose>" |
| 18:27.32 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: UX guidelines are for the official UXes. |
| 18:27.57 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: meego is boring me, sorry. full stop. |
| 18:28.07 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, everything starts out like that. |
| 18:28.07 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: anyway, which is a free software-based mobile OS that you would prefer? |
| 18:28.25 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 18:28.29 | DocScrutinizer | I'd rather go with raster's *nix than meego |
| 18:28.44 | Venemo | mhm |
| 18:28.52 | javispedro | reads DocScrutinizer comments and remembers his own comments when the N900 was about to come =) |
| 18:29.05 | GAN900 | Hehe |
| 18:29.18 | javispedro | (yet the N900 came, and while I started partially porting the diablo UI, never really felt the complete need) |
| 18:29.33 | lcuk | GAN900 don't you laugh :P you once said something about never using a device with a phone on it :P |
| 18:29.45 | javispedro | *the need to complete it ;) |
| 18:29.48 | GAN900 | Change is hard. |
| 18:30.17 | GAN900 | Especially when change comes to a prosthetic limb. :P |
| 18:30.33 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you must be confusing me with somebody else. I joined "the maemo community" not earlier than 1 month after I ordered my N900, afair |
| 18:30.58 | javispedro | aw sorry, third person failure. |
| 18:31.02 | javispedro | that "his" was /me. |
| 18:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | aah sorry, me got it wrong |
| 18:31.45 | javispedro | we need more pronouns for irc =) |
| 18:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | OP |
| 18:32.05 | DocScrutinizer | self |
| 18:33.35 | lcuk | squeezes the flaps on an engine to try and prise it open |
| 18:34.33 | javispedro | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:34.42 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer^^ ;) |
| 18:34.56 | RST38h | The correct usage is ",self" |
| 18:35.38 | RST38h | javispedro: this project will come to nothing |
| 18:36.15 | javispedro | (as usually) |
| 18:36.32 | RST38h | smoku's project actually has good chances of success |
| 18:37.49 | javispedro | I have one gripe with it |
| 18:38.00 | javispedro | he did not start from the maemo patched gtk+ |
| 18:38.13 | Venemo | javispedro: why the hell did they start doing this, when smoku already has the work 90% done? |
| 18:38.46 | javispedro | (90% of the work is not h-d only, please also consider the rest of Hildon) |
| 18:39.06 | *** join/#maemo aloril_ (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:39.23 | user_ | right using irssi on n900 isn't so easy be back |
| 18:40.21 | javispedro | unless all you want is the window manager ;) |
| 18:40.30 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@rocket.vel.lv) |
| 18:40.30 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jd) |
| 18:41.21 | javispedro | "Gnome removes maximize/minimize window controls" |
| 18:41.33 | Venemo | javispedro: hildon libs work on it afaik :) |
| 18:42.11 | RST38h | you too |
| 18:43.38 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@host81-154-59-42.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:44.28 | javispedro | Venemo: didn't find the source then |
| 18:44.40 | Venemo | javispedro: of what? |
| 18:44.48 | javispedro | modified libhildon |
| 18:45.19 | javispedro | I'm not sure if a unchanged one works without the patched gtk+ |
| 18:45.42 | javispedro | RST38h: now wait until "Gnome removes all controls". |
| 18:46.17 | Venemo | javispedro: well, afaik it uses the Hildon lib in MeeGo's repo. also, Smoku's stuff is in MeeGo's OBS, and the OpenSuse packages are here: http://codex.xiaoka.com/pub/cordia/openSUSE/ ask smoku about it on #cordia if you want to know more |
| 18:46.23 | RST38h | javispedro: ...and extra mouse buttona |
| 18:46.25 | RST38h | s |
| 18:47.20 | javispedro | Venemo: ok, so then he's virtually done =) |
| 18:47.30 | javispedro | though still %configure --with-maemo-gtk=no :( |
| 18:48.10 | javispedro | there's a lot of problems when doing for example input method stuff (which you know I'd like to get) without the patched gtk+ :P |
| 18:48.54 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: btw SHR on N900 is progressing nicely |
| 18:49.10 | *** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.74.85.229) |
| 18:49.18 | javispedro | (_unless_ he plans to reuse hildon-input-method, which would be nice but probably against the spirit of meego...) |
| 18:49.29 | GAN900 | javispedro, I can't wait for telepathic computers. |
| 18:49.39 | javispedro | (and even then you will need the patched gtk+ =) ) |
| 18:50.01 | Venemo | javispedro: smoku's project uses vanilla Gtk |
| 18:50.05 | javispedro | GAN900: I guess Gnome's plan is to remove all user interface elements in order to spur such computing revolution. |
| 18:50.06 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: SHR=? |
| 18:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.15 | javispedro | Venemo: I know he uses vanilla gtk+, that's what I was ranting about ;P |
| 18:51.23 | *** join/#maemo Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.251.90) |
| 18:51.33 | Venemo | javispedro: why is that a problem? |
| 18:51.45 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Screenshots -> so this isn't mimicing iphone at all |
| 18:52.03 | javispedro | Venemo: maemo application compatibility, and some input method hooks. |
| 18:52.45 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: for SHR the UX != system argument applies 100% |
| 18:52.52 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :):) |
| 18:53.01 | Venemo | javispedro, libhildon is there for maemo app compatibility |
| 18:53.07 | Evanescence | where to download maemo system ? i want to install maemo on my mobile |
| 18:53.21 | javispedro | Venemo: apps expect stuff from Gtk+. Like the Hildon icon sizes, etc. |
| 18:53.39 | lcuk | not all apps. |
| 18:54.06 | javispedro | specially not plain gtk+ apps ;) |
| 18:54.31 | Venemo | javispedro: hildon iconsizes are there in libhildon, aren't they? |
| 18:54.44 | Venemo | Evanescence: you can't |
| 18:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: for sure SHR - being a spinoff of OE - has quite some quirks as well, but it has a much nicer system architecture and esp it has a nicer community without decisions made behind walls like in meego |
| 18:56.17 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/SHR_Architecture doesn't seem to be very detailed |
| 18:56.19 | DocScrutinizer | I'll still stay with maemo for the foreseeable future. Just mentioning it to prove there's other alternatives than just meego |
| 18:56.23 | RST38h | javispedro: I suspect you should simply discuss it with smoku, that should be enough |
| 18:56.33 | Evanescence | Venemo: the maemo does not support download link ? |
| 18:56.58 | Venemo | Evanescence: Maemo is for the Nokia internet tablets and the Nokia N900 mobile computer |
| 18:57.13 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@host81-154-59-42.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:57.36 | javispedro | RST38h: I do not want to force more work on him so far, though, which is what this is as he won't be able to reuse the meego gtk. |
| 18:58.00 | Evanescence | Venemo: so that after i installed ubuntu on N900, i can not install maemo again ? |
| 18:59.16 | *** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@HSI-KBW-078-043-183-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:59.31 | divan | Is it possible to use valgrind on N900? It was annouced ARM support some time ago, and now I see the package valgrind-3.6.0 in repository, but it doesn't contain any binaries. |
| 18:59.36 | RST38h | javispedro: As long as he knows that the issue needs fixing, he will get to it, eventually |
| 19:00.04 | javispedro | Venemo: yes, the icon sizes are actually defined in libhildon -- however the rest are not, like the tree view changes (just grep apt-get source libgtk2.0-dev for MAEMO_CHANGES and you will get a list) |
| 19:01.33 | Venemo | Evanescence: oh, you're looking for something else then |
| 19:01.36 | Venemo | ~flashing |
| 19:01.36 | infobot | it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:01.41 | Venemo | Evanescence: look at that link |
| 19:02.30 | Evanescence | Venemo: yeah, thank you |
| 19:02.40 | divan | javispedro, hi. I've found solution for broken avcodec issue - I can symlink libstub to libavcodec in the game's directory, but I need to add '.' dir to LD_LIBRARY_PATH. I can do it via .desktop file, but maybe worth adding it to env.sh? |
| 19:03.19 | javispedro | security risk =) |
| 19:03.31 | javispedro | either way... |
| 19:03.41 | javispedro | are there any more games using that library? |
| 19:04.27 | divan | Don't know, I'm going to check the rest next few days, cause I've finished with installer. |
| 19:10.38 | *** join/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-76-175-234-46.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:12.00 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-79-182.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:20.29 | javispedro | if there aren't, I might do the symlink thing. |
| 19:21.56 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~smooph@e180140221.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:22.28 | *** join/#maemo _0x471 (~slash@HSI-KBW-078-043-183-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:24.49 | divan | javispedro, I believe it's Avatar-specific issue, but such situation may occur with other games and other libraries. Just an assumption. |
| 19:25.01 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 19:25.35 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 19:25.35 | javispedro | or the _opposite_ might happen. |
| 19:26.10 | divan | What is opposite in this context? |
| 19:30.45 | *** join/#maemo niala1 (~niala@bro67-1-81-56-100-18.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 19:34.49 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:37.16 | javispedro | requires a real implementation of ffmpeg |
| 19:38.34 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:38.44 | *** join/#maemo n1x0n (nixon@n1x0n-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 19:38.49 | SpeedEvil | I compiled ffmpeg, and it worked |
| 19:38.59 | SpeedEvil | Or am Iimagining stuff again. |
| 19:40.46 | SpeedEvil | yeah - I compiled it - itwas simple |
| 19:40.59 | SpeedEvil | ffplay is lots more complex thoguh |
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| 19:41.28 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 19:43.18 | javispedro | yes -- the issue at hand is still the same as yesterday; some game seems not to like our extras build. |
| 19:46.33 | SpeedEvil | Sorry -0 I wasn'treading context |
| 19:53.04 | ShadowJK_ | lots of stuff disabled in the extras build? |
| 19:53.19 | javispedro | it seems to play ogg files fine... |
| 19:53.50 | SpeedEvil | I dunno. |
| 19:54.01 | ShadowJK_ | although I vaguely remember mru fixed some neon bugs a few months after extra-codecs or whatever it was that originally pulled in ffmpeg came |
| 19:54.05 | SpeedEvil | I just installed gcc in a chroot, and built it. |
| 19:54.09 | SpeedEvil | And it worked. |
| 19:54.20 | SpeedEvil | At least for what I was wanting it for. |
| 19:54.29 | javispedro | it could be virtually anything, even, maybe they changed the library interface and didn't bump soname, or something |
| 19:54.31 | SpeedEvil | is a bear of very little brain. |
| 19:55.05 | ShadowJK_ | They have a pretty struct api version policy, but users of it mostly ignore it :) |
| 19:57.29 | ShadowJK_ | Which version did you compile, SpeedEvil? |
| 19:57.46 | DocScrutinizer | yawns |
| 19:58.04 | SpeedEvil | wonders if he has a copy. |
| 19:58.29 | SpeedEvil | It would have been whatever was stable 9 months or so ago. |
| 19:59.10 | ShadowJK_ | they have a stable svn/git policy :P |
| 19:59.16 | SpeedEvil | 2010-09-11.115451+0100BST.txt:(12:12:46 PM) SpeedEvil: nandan: There is a complex answer - and there is http://www.mauve.plus.com/test/ffmpeg |
| 19:59.17 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 19:59.42 | ShadowJK_ | the "release" is just snapshots taken by some debian dude whenever he feels like it |
| 19:59.55 | SpeedEvil | Ah - no - nuked that |
| 20:00.29 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:03.26 | GAN900 | RST38h, when do we get networking synching across multiple devices out of FBReader? :P |
| 20:05.59 | SpeedEvil | drops rsync on GAN900. |
| 20:06.14 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 20:08.19 | GAN900 | Yeah, I've thought about that a couple of times. |
| 20:12.49 | *** join/#maemo Reffy (542daceb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.45.172.235) |
| 20:16.59 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: buggy stun in N900?, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=961409#post961409 |
| 20:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: how did you know I was about to edit my NAT config this very moment? |
| 20:18.18 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: telepathy :p |
| 20:19.00 | *** join/#maemo korhojoa (~urpo@hoasnet-fe28dd00-251.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:19.49 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: looks strange. 192.168.1.1 is not stunserver.org |
| 20:19.51 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: so any idea how it could be fixed without disabling rebind attack protection in the router |
| 20:20.17 | Sc0rpius | haha |
| 20:20.31 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: sorry - I fail to understand the nature of the problem |
| 20:20.49 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: www.stunserver.org is certainly not, but ping stunserver.org is resolving to 192.168.1.1 |
| 20:21.16 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@188.123.239.206) |
| 20:21.28 | DocScrutinizer | NFC, possibly ALG in router |
| 20:22.04 | DocScrutinizer | I can't decode that 3 lines to make a proper error description out of that |
| 20:22.15 | Sc0rpius | well they defined in the DNS zone stunserver.org as 192.168.1.1 to force people to use a complete server name |
| 20:22.37 | Sc0rpius | nslookup stunserver.org in any computer in the world will resolve as 192.168.1.1 |
| 20:22.58 | Sc0rpius | I fail to see why that suprises people |
| 20:23.00 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 20:23.02 | Sc0rpius | surpirses |
| 20:23.04 | Sc0rpius | surprises! |
| 20:23.17 | trumee | Sc0rpius: my openwrt router is moaning about it |
| 20:23.31 | DocScrutinizer | orly?! ;-O |
| 20:23.33 | Sc0rpius | you're not supposed to use stunserver.org that's a loopback name |
| 20:23.43 | Sc0rpius | they force you to use a complete domain name |
| 20:23.50 | Sc0rpius | I mean they do that on purpose |
| 20:24.00 | Sc0rpius | so you HAVE to use whatever.stunserver.org |
| 20:24.24 | trumee | Sc0rpius: does that mean N900 has hardcoded it incorrectly? |
| 20:24.58 | Sc0rpius | I don't think it's hardcoded since you can use your own server |
| 20:25.01 | DocScrutinizer | well, I don't see who and why is using stunserver.org. |
| 20:25.21 | Sc0rpius | he's talking about using stun in N900 |
| 20:25.45 | DocScrutinizer | there's a config option in advanced settings of SIP "use automatic STUN detection" |
| 20:26.14 | trumee | suspects that automatic setting uses stunserver.org |
| 20:26.20 | Robot101 | it doesn't |
| 20:26.27 | Sc0rpius | then uncheck that |
| 20:26.31 | Sc0rpius | and type a STUN server and port |
| 20:26.31 | Robot101 | it makes a SRV request and most likely will fail to find anything |
| 20:26.35 | DocScrutinizer | if the whateveritscalled entry in DNS has no proper STUN service for the SIP provider domain, then automatic might fall back to stunserver.org :-P |
| 20:26.36 | *** join/#maemo smooph1 (~smooph@e180140229.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:26.36 | trumee | Robot101: good to see you |
| 20:27.01 | trumee | Robot101: so why is openwrt moaning about it? |
| 20:27.04 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest to manually config proper settings for stun server in N900 and disable automatic detection |
| 20:27.10 | Sc0rpius | I suggest that too |
| 20:27.14 | Robot101 | yeah, you can use stun.telepathy.im |
| 20:27.16 | Sc0rpius | and there are zillion of public STUN servers |
| 20:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | aaaah SRV - yes thatsitcalled |
| 20:27.49 | trumee | right, going to use that |
| 20:27.51 | Robot101 | SIP servers are meant to use SRV to define their STUN server but really, happens very rarely |
| 20:28.28 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: 192.168.1.1 is local, it's no valid IP |
| 20:28.54 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: 192.168.1.1 doesnt exist on my network actually |
| 20:28.59 | Sc0rpius | oh come on |
| 20:29.03 | Sc0rpius | shoots himself |
| 20:29.19 | trumee | is going to get rid of the automatic stun setting |
| 20:29.22 | Sc0rpius | you even pasted this: |
| 20:29.33 | Sc0rpius | 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=0.556 ms |
| 20:29.44 | Sc0rpius | it's obvious 192.168.1.1 is the LAN IP of your "OpenWRT" router |
| 20:29.56 | Sc0rpius | your default gateway |
| 20:30.04 | trumee | Sc0rpius: oops!, i was using somebodys else network to try that out :p |
| 20:30.23 | Sc0rpius | then that IP is the default gateway or the router IP of somebody elses |
| 20:30.30 | trumee | Sc0rpius: yesssss |
| 20:30.33 | Sc0rpius | anyway don't pay attention to that |
| 20:30.38 | Sc0rpius | just set a STUN server manually |
| 20:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: could you help me out about how to query SRV record in DNS? |
| 20:30.48 | DocScrutinizer | ...on cmdline |
| 20:30.52 | Sc0rpius | set query=srv |
| 20:31.10 | DocScrutinizer | in host? dig? |
| 20:31.25 | Sc0rpius | nslookup |
| 20:31.29 | DocScrutinizer | uh |
| 20:31.30 | Sc0rpius | nslookup<enter> |
| 20:31.35 | Sc0rpius | set query=srv<enter> |
| 20:31.42 | Sc0rpius | stunserver.org<enter> |
| 20:32.08 | Sc0rpius | I'm old, I never got used to dig/host |
| 20:32.31 | DocScrutinizer | meh, nslookup, what a PITA |
| 20:32.37 | Sc0rpius | hehe |
| 20:32.41 | DocScrutinizer | never used that - LOL |
| 20:32.50 | Sc0rpius | how did you resolve before host then? |
| 20:32.52 | Sc0rpius | host is fairly new |
| 20:33.13 | Sc0rpius | I mean how did you resolve then back in 1985? |
| 20:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | not at all? |
| 20:33.45 | Sc0rpius | :S |
| 20:33.45 | DocScrutinizer | there's been few intenets in 1985 that I could use |
| 20:34.06 | DocScrutinizer | iirc it's been datex-p back then |
| 20:34.27 | DocScrutinizer | and 2400bd accoustic couplers |
| 20:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | 1200? |
| 20:34.53 | *** part/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 20:35.15 | Sc0rpius | those were the times |
| 20:35.34 | Sc0rpius | FTP was so slow and connection timeouts were so frequent that there was an FTP via email service |
| 20:35.44 | Sc0rpius | you send an email with all ftp commands to a "powerful" server |
| 20:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 20:35.54 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~trumee@cpc3-cmbg14-0-0-cust113.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 20:36.02 | Sc0rpius | then hours later you received an email with all the output |
| 20:36.09 | Sc0rpius | if you downloaded a file, it was uuencoded |
| 20:36.10 | Sc0rpius | it was nice |
| 20:37.01 | DocScrutinizer | and a lot of "big irons" had a unix with a guest/guest user that had full access to the machine :-P |
| 20:37.55 | DocScrutinizer | and even accepted datex-p R connections |
| 20:38.55 | DocScrutinizer | idly wonders if there's been DNS at that time :-P |
| 20:40.01 | villager | if you don't like nslookup, you could always use host -t srv <domain>... |
| 20:40.49 | Sc0rpius | that was nothing |
| 20:40.58 | Sc0rpius | you could telnet computers, BBS systems for example |
| 20:41.05 | Sc0rpius | and be quick and press Ctrl-C when the banner was shown |
| 20:41.09 | Sc0rpius | and had root |
| 20:42.48 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
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| 20:52.13 | DocScrutinizer | villager: I'm just trying both, but seem to recall e.g. sipgate.de actually supports stun SRV, but under a special URL like _stun.sipgate.de |
| 20:52.29 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBEADE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:52.43 | DocScrutinizer | I can't recall how to build that special name from the SIP server basename |
| 20:54.56 | *** join/#maemo merk (~merk@75-140-248-84.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 20:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | was hoping o find sth in RFC3489 but no luck |
| 21:03.31 | DocScrutinizer | MEH |
| 21:03.34 | DocScrutinizer | host -v -t SRV _stun._udp.sipgate.de |
| 21:03.36 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:03.37 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:06.48 | ZogG_laptop | Venemo, hey |
| 21:17.25 | *** join/#maemo jpala16 (5f10cadf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.16.202.223) |
| 21:18.22 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: are you using their free service ? |
| 21:18.25 | pupnik | (sipgate) |
| 21:18.54 | DocScrutinizer | well, free as in no monthly fee, no charges for inbound call, yes |
| 21:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | works mostly fine |
| 21:19.19 | *** join/#maemo Scifi (~sudheer@c-98-207-170-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 21:20.47 | DocScrutinizer | but I read sth about above quoted SRV record has a wrong 3478 port in it, while the suggested port on their website is 10.000 |
| 21:21.31 | DocScrutinizer | not that I really know to read SRV records of DNS |
| 21:22.49 | *** join/#maemo Scifi (~sudheer@c-98-207-170-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:24.05 | niala1 | can i ask, what did you use to synchronize maemo locally, without clouds network? |
| 21:27.41 | *** join/#maemo jpala16_ (5f10cadf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.16.202.223) |
| 21:28.20 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: anyway using that sipgate geographic phone number since ~5 years now, mostly just works |
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| 21:36.25 | pupnik | ty DocScrutinizer |
| 21:37.39 | pupnik | ovi mail switching to yahoo! mail .. "Sie erklären sich damit einverstanden, dass Yahoo! mittels eines technisch automatisierten Prozesses Inhalte wie Wörter, Links, Personen und Betreffzeilen Ihrer E-Mail-Nachrichten und anderer Nachrichten (einschlieÃlich IM- und SMS-Nachrichten) prüft, um zu erfahren, was für Sie wichtig ist und Ihnen verbesserte Dienste und relevantere Werbung anzubieten." |
| 21:38.17 | DocScrutinizer | LOL*cough*errrr |
| 21:38.46 | DocScrutinizer | yahoo always been more *evil* than even google |
| 21:38.53 | *** join/#maemo qhubekela (~qhubekela@41.211.32.81) |
| 21:38.55 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
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| 21:40.13 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia sold his soul to the hoofed one long before the Elopocalypse |
| 21:41.08 | Venemo | hello ZogG_laptop |
| 21:41.09 | *** join/#maemo jpala16__ (~user@223.202.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 21:41.18 | pupnik | but you can see it's just an evolutionary / market maxima |
| 21:41.26 | pupnik | or 'attractor' |
| 21:41.49 | pupnik | .. making the most economic use out of the service of passing user data |
| 21:42.40 | ZogG_laptop | Venemo i was thinking |
| 21:42.46 | ZogG_laptop | i don't need to learn boost |
| 21:42.49 | ZogG_laptop | it |
| 21:43.27 | DocScrutinizer | sure, while implicitly selecting their user base for those who are numb enough to not care about spying their mails, so probably also most susceptible to commercal adds |
| 21:44.28 | ZogG_laptop | it's just usd in library |
| 21:44.32 | ZogG_laptop | not for my code |
| 21:44.40 | ZogG_laptop | so i might rewrite it into c++ |
| 21:45.38 | pupnik | lol |
| 21:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, they tested cherry on us, not they go for the full treat |
| 21:45.53 | DocScrutinizer | s/ not / now / |
| 21:46.13 | pupnik | "gesetzlichen Recht Gebrauch gemacht haben, dieser Nutzung Ihrer Daten zu widersprechen." |
| 21:46.18 | pupnik | sorry |
| 21:46.19 | DocScrutinizer | is happy to never have used Nokia mail |
| 21:46.30 | DocScrutinizer | HAHA |
| 21:46.43 | pupnik | AuÃerdem werten wir ggf. Nutzungsprofile unter einem Pseudonym (das nicht mit den Daten in Ihrem Account zusammengeführt werden kann) zur Werbung, Marktforschung und Verbesserung der Yahoo! Dienste aus, soweit Sie nicht von Ihrem gesetzlichen Recht Gebrauch gemacht haben, dieser Nutzung Ihrer Daten zu widersprechen. |
| 21:47.06 | Venemo | ZogG_laptop: as long as it works, do as you wish :) |
| 21:48.18 | GAN900 | feels left out. |
| 21:48.19 | ZogG_laptop | Venemo, i would like you to help me to do it in C anyway |
| 21:49.07 | Venemo | ZogG_laptop: okay :) |
| 21:49.40 | jpala16__ | die |
| 21:49.44 | Venemo | ZogG_laptop, my weekend appears to be quite busy though, so I can't do it right now |
| 21:49.57 | DocScrutinizer | just incidentally those succers sent me an "invitation" or some similar shit two ddays ago, somebody wants to follow me or whatever. Damn I had to create that account for twinkle forum on yahoo, and they got a true mail addr to forward that shit to |
| 21:50.14 | DocScrutinizer | suckers!* |
| 21:51.02 | *** join/#maemo jpala16 (~user@223.202.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 21:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | barbie santacruce wants to connect with you on Yahoo! ---- Von: "Yahoo!" <do-not-reply@yahoo-inc.com> |
| 21:51.37 | *** join/#maemo s1gk1ll (~sigkill@a89-155-177-225.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 21:52.00 | ZogG_laptop | Venemo, talk to me, as i don't find any way except glib and i don't fully understand the best way to do it |
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| 21:58.15 | ZogG_laptop | lardman|home, ping |
| 21:58.23 | pupnik | lol DocScrutinizer |
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| 22:16.05 | Dassu | What would you guys recommend for listening WMA internet radio? |
| 22:16.18 | SpeedEvil | Good speakers. |
| 22:16.20 | Dassu | (mplayer can do that but has awful UI) |
| 22:16.44 | Dassu | SpeedEvil: The maemo media player does not support WMA nor (afaik) does MediaBox. |
| 22:16.58 | SpeedEvil | Isn't there gmplayer? |
| 22:17.03 | SpeedEvil | I haven't used it though. |
| 22:17.33 | javispedro | Dassu: are you sure the builtin media player does not support wma? |
| 22:17.45 | javispedro | 's pretty sure it does, in fact I remember listening to an wma stream once... |
| 22:18.28 | Dassu | javispedro: it says "Unknown audio format" |
| 22:18.45 | javispedro | Package: gstreamer0.10-wma Maintainer: someone@nokia.com |
| 22:18.50 | javispedro | so yes, it should. |
| 22:18.56 | Dassu | hmm |
| 22:19.48 | *** join/#maemo vanous (~vanous@194.228.223.3) |
| 22:19.50 | javispedro | divan: there? |
| 22:20.27 | *** join/#maemo RenX (~Genx@188-220-35-127.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:20.30 | Dassu | Should that provide a ffwmav2 codec? |
| 22:20.30 | pupnik | neither here nor there |
| 22:20.31 | *** part/#maemo RenX (~Genx@188-220-35-127.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:20.51 | javispedro | Dassu: no, that would be gstreamer-ffmpeg |
| 22:21.38 | Venemo | ZogG_laptop: if I can get that media server thingy to install on my laptop, I may be able to help |
| 22:21.41 | Dassu | and Maemo media player should support that? |
| 22:21.50 | Venemo | ZogG_laptop: although not today; probably tomorrow evening |
| 22:22.11 | javispedro | Dassu: if you install it, yes... it probably will come with the "extra decoders support" package on extras |
| 22:22.38 | Dassu | I have it installed |
| 22:23.06 | Dassu | http://195.248.86.134/liveylex <- here's the stream btw |
| 22:24.37 | javispedro | I can't reach the server. |
| 22:24.56 | BCMM | me neither |
| 22:24.56 | SpeedEvil | I also can't reach the server. |
| 22:24.59 | BCMM | nor does it return pings |
| 22:25.16 | BCMM | nor does nslookup identify a hostname for it |
| 22:25.24 | Dassu | javispedro: I guess it is only for fins. Damnit |
| 22:25.59 | Dassu | in other words: it works for me on Desktop |
| 22:26.36 | Dassu | tries to find english wma station and to experiment |
| 22:26.57 | javispedro | you might want to try installing gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg ... however, as said, the wma codec should be there; maybe the n900 also hasn't access to the station. |
| 22:27.10 | javispedro | *should be there already on stock n900. |
| 22:28.25 | Dassu | dude, I have it installed. |
| 22:28.34 | javispedro | I just found something that is terribly, terribly funny and however I am not able to explain it because of legal issues :( |
| 22:28.39 | javispedro | sucks. |
| 22:28.58 | javispedro | and yes it is maemo related. |
| 22:29.01 | SpeedEvil | You can PM it to me, and I can claim I found it out. :) |
| 22:29.05 | Dassu | javispedro: my n900 has access to that server through mplayer |
| 22:29.28 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@201-1-106-7.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 22:29.50 | javispedro | Dassu: ah well, ran out of ideas, probably nokia's wma codec is being preffered over ffmpeg's one and nokia can't parse the stream or something. |
| 22:30.19 | javispedro | s/nokia/fluendo (seemingly) |
| 22:30.21 | Dassu | k |
| 22:33.02 | pupnik | laffs at locking |
| 22:35.52 | *** join/#maemo sevard (sev@unaffiliated/sevard) |
| 22:36.41 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-103-29.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
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| 22:38.05 | divan | javispedro, ping |
| 22:38.11 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I think you misunderstood that - don't you want to explain to us where you looked at when you got that puzzled. We might find a better explanation ;-D |
| 22:39.01 | SpeedEvil | I can confirm that the story is _really_ funny. But alas can't share it. |
| 22:39.09 | SpeedEvil | (he diddn't really PM me) |
| 22:39.22 | javispedro | divan: see pm |
| 22:40.20 | *** part/#maemo jpala16 (~user@223.202.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:40.49 | lcuk | JavisPedro just looked at my twitterprofile page :O |
| 22:41.16 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: we already knew WP7 is a maemo with a special theme - that's not any funny anymore |
| 22:42.12 | javispedro | cold cold |
| 22:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | all the closed maemo blobs are stolen from minix and actually must get GPL'd, also nothing new |
| 22:43.39 | *** join/#maemo jpala16 (~user@223.202.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:44.19 | DocScrutinizer | that's why the killed maemo and started on meego - after all |
| 22:45.30 | javispedro | getting warmer (it's indeed something about blob), but still pretty much cold =) |
| 22:45.36 | javispedro | * a blob |
| 22:46.08 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (~slauwers@bch66-2-88-164-78-176.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:46.08 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 22:46.12 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBF26B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | the next one posting a sentence with "flash" gets kicked |
| 22:47.20 | mikki-kun | hm, sounds like a dare... *grabbing some popcorn and enjoying the show* |
| 22:47.44 | ZogG | what is qt version we have on maemo? |
| 22:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | move one, move on. Nothing to see here |
| 22:48.00 | ZogG | does qt-4.7.2 iso ut already? |
| 22:48.17 | ZogG | is never gonna get used to bed based distors |
| 22:48.34 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 22:48.39 | javispedro | "bed based distros"? |
| 22:48.56 | javispedro | sounds like something I would want to use. |
| 22:49.06 | DocScrutinizer | bed based di stores |
| 22:49.08 | ZogG | deb based distros =) |
| 22:49.34 | ZogG | is there anything except apt-cache search? |
| 22:49.51 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, rm -rf |
| 22:50.05 | pupnik | you can install apps without using apt |
| 22:50.21 | javispedro | there's also http://www.maemo.org/packages/ |
| 22:50.33 | pupnik | in fact we could have a superfast program installer with dpkg |
| 22:50.36 | DocScrutinizer | and locate, and google of course ;-P |
| 22:51.07 | *** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (~user@72.34.133.249) |
| 22:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | just dpkg doesn't care at all about dependencies |
| 22:51.53 | DocScrutinizer | and I guess building the complete deps-tree is what takes time |
| 22:51.55 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, i got this app requiring qt 4.7.2 |
| 22:51.57 | pupnik | right |
| 22:51.58 | DocScrutinizer | debs-* |
| 22:52.00 | ZogG | and tried to run it |
| 22:52.09 | ZogG | but it blinks and get black screen |
| 22:52.10 | pupnik | there's something wrong with the data structures being used |
| 22:52.27 | ZogG | so i think i might miss qt 4.7.2 and have 4.7.1 or something |
| 22:52.28 | DantonicN800 | question: can the n900 be flashed in such a way to eliminate the user lock password? |
| 22:52.31 | ZogG | installed with ham |
| 22:52.33 | pupnik | insertions/deletions into such a tree should be o log(n) where n is the size of the tree, not (n) |
| 22:52.55 | ZogG | DantonicN800, emmc flash? |
| 22:53.03 | pupnik | so we have an embarassing situation from a data-structures and not-suck perspective, DocScrutinizer |
| 22:53.10 | DantonicN800 | didn't work for me |
| 22:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: basically the tree should get downloaded from server, then just prune it |
| 22:53.27 | DantonicN800 | still Wants pw |
| 22:53.39 | Dassu | http://mediasrv.musicradio.com/2CR?MSWMExt=.asf <- can somebody test this url on their maemo media player? |
| 22:54.07 | DocScrutinizer | DantonicN800: basically no |
| 22:54.28 | DantonicN800 | :( |
| 22:55.33 | DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 however |
| 22:55.34 | DantonicN800 | I had the strangest thing happen, it.won't let me enter my code, it's as if the touchscreen doesn't work |
| 22:56.04 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-79-182.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:56.14 | DantonicN800 | but when I touch it while it's dark it lights up |
| 22:56.35 | DantonicN800 | but i can't digit anything |
| 22:56.47 | DantonicN800 | touch or keyboard |
| 22:56.49 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 22:57.07 | jpala16 | Dassu: I have that format not supported |
| 22:57.40 | DantonicN800 | ok I'll check out that link thx |
| 22:58.19 | DantonicN800 | glad my n800 is still operational tho :P |
| 22:58.36 | DocScrutinizer | DantonicN800: note that you can access the CAL partition that's storing the lockcode as well from e.g meego or any other auxiliary system (rescue initrd for example) |
| 23:00.08 | DocScrutinizer | ponders a maemo aux system on uSD, which is patched to not query/check lockcode on bootup, but allows writing to CAL to reset the code |
| 23:01.42 | DocScrutinizer | it can't be too hard to patch that mount commands in initscripts to make a copied / on uSD boot and work |
| 23:02.02 | *** join/#maemo sgiessl (~sg@188-195-64-163-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 23:02.51 | DocScrutinizer | I hope there's no closed blob checking for fs-type of rootfs |
| 23:03.09 | DocScrutinizer | or physical device |
| 23:04.06 | sgiessl | hi. does anyone know if it's possible to put apps into the maemo extras repository when they are available in the ovi store at the same time? I would like to offer a repository for Quassel2Go (http://qt-apps.org/content/show.php/Quassel2Go?content=136828) which has quicker turnaround times than ovi |
| 23:04.57 | *** join/#maemo ptl (~patola@unaffiliated/ptl) |
| 23:05.23 | javispedro | that's a good question I guess. Any limitation would probably come from the Ovi side. |
| 23:05.38 | DocScrutinizer | I wouldn't see what's stopping any FOSS app from going into extras, once it got the 10 votes of QA |
| 23:05.47 | javispedro | (seeing it's a GPLd app, I'd usually say ditch Ovi and go extras only) |
| 23:05.59 | javispedro | unless you have good reason to be on Ovi ... |
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| 23:06.21 | DocScrutinizer | well, enable customers to pay for it ;-D |
| 23:06.41 | Dassu | jpala16: k, thanks, so its not just me :P |
| 23:06.43 | crashanddie_ | there's one thing I don't get |
| 23:06.53 | crashanddie_ | Does Ovi provide source code downloads? |
| 23:06.55 | DocScrutinizer | there are users who thing a program you paid for is worth more than a FOSS one |
| 23:07.06 | kerio | weird, it's usually the very opposite |
| 23:07.18 | crashanddie_ | not quite, but then again. |
| 23:07.18 | javispedro | kerio: on this channel, sure. on the real world... |
| 23:07.32 | kerio | this channel is in the real world |
| 23:07.54 | javispedro | that is probably one of the best points I've heard today. |
| 23:07.54 | *** join/#maemo biston (~biston@212.101.240.244) |
| 23:07.55 | DantonicN800 | so i could save it by installing nitdroid? |
| 23:07.58 | crashanddie_ | because, if Ovi store doesn't provide source code downloads... Isn't it incompatible with the GPL? |
| 23:08.05 | biston | good evening |
| 23:08.23 | biston | has anyone experienced weird transitions after installing the 'CSSU transitions tuner' ? |
| 23:08.23 | crashanddie_ | same way VLC has been pulled from the iTunes AppStore? |
| 23:08.36 | crashanddie_ | biston: I'm guessing that's the point of the app? |
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| 23:08.55 | biston | nah that's not what i mean, let me tell you what i'm going through |
| 23:09.01 | kerio | crashanddie_: the problem was that you couldn't run your own compiled VLC from source |
| 23:09.03 | javispedro | crashanddie_: actually, the official reason for VLC was that the App Store licenses restricts you from sharing the application again. |
| 23:09.03 | biston | in my case i can see the next desktop overlapping when i slide |
| 23:09.06 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_: obviously |
| 23:09.30 | kerio | er, yeah, you couldn't share your compiled VLC |
| 23:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | (illegit ovi) |
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| 23:10.07 | crashanddie_ | And I'm pretty sure the Ovi licence prevents you from sharing your downloads with others |
| 23:10.12 | biston | in more details, i have conversations inbox widget on desktop 1, omweather widget on desktop 2. if i'm on desktop 1 and i slide to desktop 2 i can see the omweather widget before desktop-transition is done |
| 23:10.30 | biston | and vice versa when switching from desktop 2 to desktop 1 |
| 23:10.31 | javispedro | which all goes to my first point, which is: if its GPL, ditch Ovi. |
| 23:10.42 | crashanddie_ | biston: post on the tmo thread, you're more likely to get a decent response |
| 23:10.57 | biston | sure |
| 23:11.02 | crashanddie_ | biston: #maemo is to the Maemo Community what 4chan is to the Internet. |
| 23:11.27 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_: you'd need to check exact wording of OVI ToS |
| 23:11.34 | biston | well i thought since cssu devs all login to here ... |
| 23:11.36 | crashanddie_ | DocScrutinizer: I cba |
| 23:11.40 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 23:11.47 | crashanddie_ | biston: you want #maemo-ssu then ;) |
| 23:12.05 | biston | ah. thank you for that |
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| 23:12.41 | javispedro | see? this channel is not the real world. it is 4chan! |
| 23:12.51 | crashanddie_ | actually, let me rephrase that |
| 23:13.03 | crashanddie_ | #maemo is to the Maemo Community what /b/ is to 4chan. |
| 23:13.13 | Dassu | woot finally. FOudn the solution for wma radio not playing. For some reason playlists report urls as http:// when as they are in fact mms:// when I changet http:// to mms:// the radio magically started playing! |
| 23:13.31 | javispedro | feels slightly insulted, but quickly forgets and continues posting cat images |
| 23:13.38 | biston | lol |
| 23:14.25 | DocScrutinizer | Dassu: nice find |
| 23:14.49 | sgiessl | thanks for your answers |
| 23:15.08 | Dassu | :) thanks |
| 23:15.30 | crashanddie_ | Jaffa: I tried editing MWKN, but my brain is not managing to write coherent sentences... Either the topics this month are really difficult, or I'm out of writing for the day. |
| 23:15.38 | sgiessl | I think it's ok to put it into ovi. from ovi side there are only limitation with symbian signed apps (when signed for free from ovi.com) |
| 23:15.47 | crashanddie_ | Jaffa: will try again tomorrow morning or something. |
| 23:16.15 | sgiessl | besides, quassel2go takes part in a contest sponsored by nokia and which requires 1) ope source and 2) ovi.com submission :) |
| 23:16.31 | crashanddie_ | that doesn't mean it's legal |
| 23:16.46 | javispedro | it would be nokia-style embarrasing if it weren't. |
| 23:16.55 | sgiessl | crashanddie_: yeah |
| 23:16.59 | sgiessl | javispedro: hehe :) |
| 23:17.05 | javispedro | please violate the GPL to win this contest! |
| 23:17.38 | javispedro | maybe it's all a plot to force you to use BSD style licenses =) |
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| 23:18.06 | sgiessl | javispedro: why violate the GPL? |
| 23:18.11 | crashanddie_ | In other news, I may just have managed to convert my company to GPL |
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| 23:18.30 | DocScrutinizer | Dassu: how do you insert that URL to the playlist? |
| 23:18.32 | pupnik | :) |
| 23:18.35 | crashanddie_ | Apparently, version 3 of our ACD server might be licenced as GPL :) |
| 23:19.02 | javispedro | sgiessl: by forcing you to a) make your app GPL b) publish it without the source on ovi =) |
| 23:19.09 | javispedro | either way |
| 23:19.53 | javispedro | if you're the sole copyright owner of the app, you can just say "gpl with exceptions" and ship whatever you want wherever you want while not allowing anyone else. |
| 23:20.55 | sgiessl | javispedro: what requirement do you mean by "forcing me to publish it without source on ovi"? |
| 23:21.08 | crashanddie_ | "ovi.com submission" |
| 23:21.31 | sgiessl | I don't think it's a requirement of the GPL to ship every binary with source code attached |
| 23:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | it kinda is |
| 23:21.49 | javispedro | that, or written offer. |
| 23:21.49 | sgiessl | ovi.com submission doesn't mean it's forbidden to publish source code |
| 23:22.12 | sgiessl | javispedro: the app comes with an about dialog including the license |
| 23:22.21 | jpala16 | #maemo-ssu |
| 23:22.33 | jpala16 | sorry, noob fault |
| 23:22.41 | DocScrutinizer | np |
| 23:22.58 | javispedro | is not a lawyer, but guesses that's ok. |
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| 23:23.33 | javispedro | after all, as per the iphone-vlc predecent, nobody complained about how they distributed the source. |
| 23:23.52 | DocScrutinizer | the appstore VLC case was about ToS of appstore forbid sharing of the downloaded apps |
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| 23:25.02 | crashanddie_ | neither did we, sgiessl brought that up |
| 23:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | there's been a link to the rationale why FSF(?) made apple take down VLC |
| 23:25.36 | DocScrutinizer | here in this chan, a few days ago |
| 23:25.40 | crashanddie_ | not FSF |
| 23:25.46 | crashanddie_ | a french dude |
| 23:25.50 | crashanddie_ | the lead in VLC |
| 23:26.00 | crashanddie_ | because he's an IP holder of VLC, he could make the claim to Apple |
| 23:26.13 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@145.91.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 23:26.36 | crashanddie_ | regardless, I have a jailbroken iPod touch, with VLC |
| 23:26.36 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-79-182.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:26.42 | sgiessl | I would be interested in links which contain details |
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| 23:27.17 | sgiessl | IIRC the thing about VLC was specifically related to the Apple app store. because Apple forbids to publish apps in other places |
| 23:27.23 | crashanddie_ | what's his name |
| 23:27.31 | crashanddie_ | Remi Denis-Montcourt |
| 23:27.33 | sgiessl | it's different with ovi in that you are perfectly allowed to do this |
| 23:27.33 | crashanddie_ | or something |
| 23:27.40 | crashanddie_ | are you? |
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| 23:28.11 | crashanddie_ | You're not allowed to redistribute say... Angry Birds |
| 23:28.47 | javispedro | .... angry birds is not gpl. |
| 23:28.54 | javispedro | hides |
| 23:28.57 | crashanddie_ | indeed |
| 23:29.05 | crashanddie_ | but what about the Ovi EULA? |
| 23:29.07 | RiD | hiding behind a huuuuge tree? |
| 23:29.56 | javispedro | so, let's read it. |
| 23:29.57 | javispedro | http://store.ovi.com/legal/terms/store |
| 23:30.40 | *** part/#maemo jpala16 (~user@223.202.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 23:30.48 | Dassu | DocScrutinizer: I just add the mms://*.asf to the address field. |
| 23:30.52 | sgiessl | crashanddie_: please anyone give me _specific_ pointers about possible incompatibilities with the GPL. I will re-check the ovi terms when I've got some time |
| 23:31.06 | Dassu | DocScrutinizer: wait, didn't understand the question. |
| 23:31.36 | DocScrutinizer | Dassu: how do you enter the URL? do you click on it in browser, type it in, or what else? |
| 23:32.09 | sgiessl | is going to sleep now. |
| 23:33.00 | Dassu | DocScrutinizer: Well, if you don't have finnish proxy you wont be able to test this but what I did was to download the .asx (playlist first) |
| 23:33.01 | javispedro | 6.Content: You agree: [...] Not to, nor authorize anyone else, make copies, give, sell, resell, [...], piss on the content, [...] , commercially exploit or make the Content available _unless otherwise authorized in the applicable Terms_ |
| 23:33.51 | Dassu | DocScrutinizer: for some wierd ass reason that contained url to even another playlist: http://195.248.86.134/liveylex |
| 23:33.57 | DocScrutinizer | Dassu: sorry, still obscure. How did you do that? |
| 23:34.31 | DocScrutinizer | Dassu: well, never mind |
| 23:34.34 | Dassu | DocScrutinizer: I type it in just like any other radio stream |
| 23:34.45 | Dassu | DocScrutinizer: Only replaced the http:// with mms:// |
| 23:35.36 | SpeedEvil | Nokia doesn't actually bother reading terms and conditions to see if they actually make sense. |
| 23:35.49 | SpeedEvil | The PR1.3 upgrade is a prime example. |
| 23:36.00 | sgiessl | javispedro: IANAL as well, but could it be that "the applicable Terms" are terms specific to the application, ie. the GPL in this case? |
| 23:36.05 | javispedro | sgiessl: I agree. |
| 23:36.23 | DocScrutinizer | sgiessl: yes |
| 23:36.44 | kerio | SpeedEvil: like what? |
| 23:37.41 | SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10261 |
| 23:37.42 | SpeedEvil | that |
| 23:37.43 | povbot | Bug 10261: MyNokia Terms and conditions of use on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect |
| 23:39.44 | javispedro | ah, My Nokia. |
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| 23:40.16 | javispedro | did you know I can used media player to play videos? another useful hint from my nokia! |
| 23:41.01 | SpeedEvil | Wow! |
| 23:41.09 | SpeedEvil | Who would have guessed! |
| 23:41.36 | javispedro | fortunatelly, on this country, THEY pay for the SMS. |
| 23:45.29 | SpeedEvil | I shoul dhave followed up withmy provider, and gotten a refund. |
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