| 00:00.45 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, maemo isn't bad. But if I ever get a chance to meet the GUI design spec dudes at night in the countryside, then please tell me a week in advance, so I'm prepared to this exciting encounter |
| 00:01.04 | javispedro | hey, I had such chance. |
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| 00:01.16 | javispedro | We all smiled together and played DrNokSnes. |
| 00:01.24 | DocScrutinizer | and you had no baseball bat with you I bet |
| 00:01.35 | javispedro | (truth be said I had only had my N900 for hours by then =) ) |
| 00:03.59 | javispedro | I remember there was a #maemo-ui initiative |
| 00:04.12 | javispedro | I guess we didn't advertise it enough ... :P |
| 00:04.15 | javispedro | ahh... the good times... |
| 00:05.04 | DocScrutinizer | the good times where M4 allowed to even start apps via d-pad and home-key |
| 00:05.29 | javispedro | notes that M4 on the N810 didn't allow you either |
| 00:05.37 | javispedro | you had to focus the navigator with finger or stylus |
| 00:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | actually a N810 with M4 and a broken touchpanel is perfectly usable. A N900 with M5 is dead when TP is broken |
| 00:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: duh, what? |
| 00:06.32 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 00:06.58 | DocScrutinizer-8 | please copy: |
| 00:06.59 | javispedro | enlighten me. |
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| 00:08.13 | DocScrutinizer-8 | home dpad select-home |
| 00:08.44 | DocScrutinizer-8 | home dpad-left dpad up dpad-right |
| 00:09.00 | javispedro | dpad to where? On home all I can focus with the d-pad is the google widget |
| 00:10.08 | DocScrutinizer-8 | javispedro: select desktop to show on top |
| 00:11.13 | DocScrutinizer-8 | press home, press dpad left, press dpad up until you reach applauncher, press dpad right... select your app to launch |
| 00:12.18 | javispedro | home (I guess you mean switch? -- the one you tap to get the list of open windows) doesn't do anything when there are no open windows |
| 00:12.52 | DocScrutinizer-8 | dpad-left from app-selector is the secret trick |
| 00:13.14 | javispedro | yeah, but windows selector doesn't appear if there are no running apps |
| 00:13.16 | javispedro | *window |
| 00:13.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | meh, I have to close xchat |
| 00:13.42 | javispedro | (admittedly something that should be uncommon) |
| 00:14.41 | DocScrutinizer | damn, you're right, you need at least one started app for this to work |
| 00:15.22 | javispedro | it's evil |
| 00:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | it's better than m5 |
| 00:16.21 | DocScrutinizer | I still can use a N810 with broken TP. I can bin a N900 when it has same problem |
| 00:17.14 | DocScrutinizer | I can attach a kbd to N810 USB and never again touch the device. I couldn't attach any kbd at all on stock N900/M5 |
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| 00:17.27 | javispedro | during the first months I had my N900 I tried to run diablo's hildon on it. I think it was easy enough to get it to show something |
| 00:18.41 | DocScrutinizer | whatever, just tell me where and when to meet the dude that invented M5 GUI - at night, some lonely area |
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| 00:21.13 | javispedro | ponders if handling the list to DocScrutinizer is a good idea =) |
| 00:21.43 | javispedro | either way, what I was talking about a few minutes ago was this event: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend/UX_meets_Code |
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| 00:52.15 | pupnik | i miss the 'escape' key on n900 |
| 00:52.45 | pupnik | ui's should have that function... to 'go back' 'go up' 'get out' |
| 00:53.28 | pupnik | in addition i think gui's should have a hardware key (combo) to 'kill this broken thing' :) |
| 00:53.48 | pupnik | something besides the power button |
| 00:54.22 | javispedro | do not worry, windows phone 7 mandates a escape button. |
| 00:54.33 | pupnik | it does? |
| 00:54.37 | pupnik | good for them |
| 00:54.42 | javispedro | along with a home/win key |
| 00:54.53 | pupnik | i think that's sensible |
| 00:55.41 | pupnik | "Simplify as much as possible, but no further." Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) |
| 00:56.40 | pupnik | that's one reason i picked up an e71 and e72 to test/play with for a while |
| 00:57.32 | pupnik | you can click through stuff pretty fast |
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| 01:52.19 | pigeon | is there actually a way to reset/recover the device lock code on the n900 without reflashing? |
| 01:52.24 | pupnik | running battery eye increases idle current draw from 2mA to 13mA :( |
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| 01:54.24 | aktuviens | How do you get this: (*@unaffiliated/pupnik)? |
| 01:55.22 | gavin | aktuviens: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks |
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| 01:59.58 | zanberdo | I have an N900 and I've just received a 16GB microSD. Is there anything I should do to my system after I install the microSD? |
| 02:01.08 | aktuviens_ | You can backup in any case. |
| 02:03.11 | SpeedEvil | zanberdo: Nope - nothing really needed. |
| 02:03.20 | SpeedEvil | But backup is a good idea at any time. |
| 02:03.50 | zanberdo | ok, thanks! |
| 02:04.30 | cehteh | note that the back-cover toogles a switch for usb mode vs mounted |
| 02:04.34 | zanberdo | how does the new storage show up on the device? does it automatically adjust the available space for /home or does it create a new mount point? |
| 02:04.50 | SpeedEvil | It's mounted as a seperate disk |
| 02:05.03 | jonwil | bah, I cant find out how an incoming call is routed into the dialer |
| 02:05.12 | cehteh | just inserting the card but not putting the back cover back leaves it unmounted |
| 02:07.56 | jonwil | still hasn't been able to find anyone who knows anything about telepathy :( |
| 02:08.16 | cehteh | docs on maemo.org :P |
| 02:08.36 | jonwil | docs dont help :P |
| 02:08.50 | zanberdo | ok, so it appears to have been added as /media/mmc1 and there is a DCIM directory already created |
| 02:09.18 | cehteh | looks just right |
| 02:12.26 | aktuviens_ | The Corps is mother, the Corps is father. |
| 02:12.41 | jonwil | suspect no-one knows anything much about how telepathy works |
| 02:12.54 | jonwil | well no-one who is likely to be interested in helping me that is :P |
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| 02:17.13 | javispedro | jonwil: telepathy is a _STANDARD_ part of the gnome stack, I think you're on the wrong channel. |
| 02:17.51 | jonwil | ok, so where is the right place? |
| 02:18.09 | javispedro | #telepathy ? =) |
| 02:19.30 | javispedro | note that obviously applies to open parts only. |
| 02:21.24 | cehteh | how is a free mce coming along? |
| 02:22.16 | jonwil | Its not going anywhere |
| 02:22.20 | jonwil | see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11794 |
| 02:22.21 | povbot | Bug 11794: Open Fremantle's MCE |
| 02:22.42 | javispedro | no answer... /me sighs |
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| 02:23.55 | jonwil | aparently jaffa is going to talk to some people at Nokia about that bug and the others here http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant |
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| 02:24.48 | javispedro | "are still relevant"? is there any non-relevant request maybe? ;) |
| 02:25.37 | cehteh | yes ... "port WP7 to the n900" would be highly unrelevant :o) |
| 02:25.41 | jonwil | well some of the requests were things that were already satisfied somehow or otherwise no longer valid |
| 02:25.52 | jonwil | Some of them were for things that its clear wont be opened up (like BME) |
| 02:26.25 | cehteh | isnt BME almost completely reverse engineered already? |
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| 02:26.34 | jonwil | dont know |
| 02:26.43 | javispedro | well, I am in a pessimist mood today... (having been battling stupid libtool which I will never never never use again) |
| 02:26.45 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer put some efforts into figuring stuff out |
| 02:27.09 | cehteh | well bme just works .. could do better and be more flexible/configureable but ok |
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| 02:27.24 | cehteh | while mce could really need some enhancements |
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| 02:36.17 | Macer | hm. fmms seems to have stopped working |
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| 02:46.00 | javispedro | Since today I hate libtool with a passion. |
| 02:46.25 | javispedro | What has happened: half of my /usr/bin/* now links with QtGui for no reason. |
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| 02:48.21 | SpacedOut | Kernel question. is there any reason that `flasher-3.5 -l -b -k zImage` would fail to boot a Maemo kernel? And is there any way to get the kernel boot log when it fails to boot (config or source code wise)? |
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| 03:02.42 | RobbieThe1st | SpacedOut: if the kernel wasn't installed right in the first place, all the modules might not be there and as such it wouldn't be happy at least |
| 03:04.01 | jonwil | wishes he could find some example code for a Telepathy Approver thats specific to the maemo version of telepathy (which is about a dozen versions behind mainline) |
| 03:04.20 | SpacedOut | Agree, but I installed the power kernel, and neither that or the pr1.3 kernel will -l load and -b boot with the flasher. |
| 03:05.21 | SpacedOut | If that's expected and flashing to the device to boot should work, I might try that, but I would really prefer to not flash a testing kernel and risk having to flash everything. |
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| 03:23.41 | jonwil | doesn't think he will ever find the point at which Telepathy tells rtcom-call-ui that there is an incoming call |
| 03:28.14 | SpacedOut | Talking about calls, why is it that the call duration isn't recorded? I would like to make use of that information. |
| 03:29.10 | Sc0rpius | I'm not sure if they aren't recorded, but maybe there's no GUI/app to show you that info |
| 03:30.00 | SpacedOut | Well the /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db sqlite file has fields for it, but all the voice calls have the end time set to 0. |
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| 03:32.39 | Sc0rpius | jonwil, and why do you want to know that? |
| 03:32.53 | jonwil | for my dialer reverse engineering work |
| 03:33.30 | Sc0rpius | do you want to know what calls rtcom-call-ui? I think it's telepathy-ring |
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| 03:37.55 | jonwil | aha, I think its not rtcom-call-ui OR librtcom-call-ui thats registering with telepathy as the telepathy Approver |
| 03:38.01 | jonwil | I think its rtcom-notification-ui |
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| 03:38.17 | jonwil | thats actually saying "yes I want the call" or "no I dont" |
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| 03:51.57 | pupnik | hopes jonwil has good success |
| 03:52.13 | pupnik | SpacedOut: call duration and summaries would be nice |
| 03:52.42 | jonwil | thinks making a feature-complete dialer or notification replacement is never going to happen |
| 03:54.53 | jonwil | both apps are doing far too much funky stuff |
| 03:56.32 | jonwil | There is bug 11781 |
| 03:56.33 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11781 consider opening rtcom-notification-ui |
| 03:56.45 | jonwil | but I cant see that going forward |
| 04:01.22 | jonwil | wonders if adding bug 11781, bug 11780 and a matching one for rtcom-call-ui to http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant would be worth doing... :P |
| 04:01.23 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11780 consider opening rtcom-messaging-ui |
| 04:04.33 | jonwil | in any case its clear that I am never going to be able to reverse engineer enough of the dialer, notification etc for a feature-complete replacement to be able to be written |
| 04:05.19 | Sc0rpius | what are you doing to reverse engineering? |
| 04:05.40 | Sc0rpius | I assume you're using IDA and disassembling the ARM binaries |
| 04:05.42 | jonwil | yes |
| 04:05.44 | jonwil | I am |
| 04:05.45 | jonwil | why? |
| 04:05.52 | Sc0rpius | just wondering |
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| 04:06.06 | jonwil | wishes he could afford the newest version of IDA with that sweet sweet ARM decompiler |
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| 04:06.42 | javispedro | it will suck =) |
| 04:07.13 | jonwil | what will suck? |
| 04:08.25 | javispedro | the arm decompiler, I remember promises of it since palmos days (but back then ida wasn't even able to properly detect a palmos5 syscall...) |
| 04:08.59 | Sc0rpius | yeah but we had a .txt file to know what call was which one |
| 04:09.20 | javispedro | even guessing the number of parameters is hard... |
| 04:10.08 | javispedro | Sc0rpius: I didn't mean palmos4 traps, though. |
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| 04:11.46 | luke-jr | jonwil: erm, you realize telepathy is documented openly, right? |
| 04:11.52 | jonwil | yes I realize that |
| 04:11.57 | jonwil | but the doucmentation is a nightmare |
| 04:12.17 | jonwil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer is as far as I am likely to get with my dialer work |
| 04:16.30 | jonwil | plus in any case the telepathy stuff is only part of a much larger jigsaw puzzle |
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| 04:19.57 | jonwil | basically unless hell freezes over and Nokia decides to open source rtcom-notification-ui, rtcom-call-ui and rtcom-messaging-ui, all the features people want like call filtering are not going to happen |
| 04:20.29 | luke-jr | jonwil: why? |
| 04:20.34 | luke-jr | ofono can't do it? |
| 04:20.44 | jonwil | ofono-on-maemo is not an option |
| 04:21.06 | Sc0rpius | reads again the channel's name.. #maemo or #meego ? |
| 04:21.15 | jonwil | because too many bits of maemo are tied to the current stack |
| 04:21.57 | jonwil | plus any dialer that people would actually USE needs to be feature complete vis a vis the nokia dialer |
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| 04:22.26 | luke-jr | jonwil: Maemo is dead. |
| 04:22.35 | Sc0rpius | I think I've read a python script around to block calls on Maemo |
| 04:22.47 | Sc0rpius | Maemo is dead = fact |
| 04:22.51 | Sc0rpius | but Meego is also dead |
| 04:22.55 | Sc0rpius | and Maemo works, Meego doesn't |
| 04:22.57 | luke-jr | Gentoo is alive. :D |
| 04:23.11 | javispedro | argh, Gentoo. |
| 04:23.13 | luke-jr | /etc/init.d/net.gprs0 start |
| 04:23.15 | luke-jr | :D |
| 04:23.21 | javispedro | why, oh why they don't get rid of the .la files already? |
| 04:24.03 | Sc0rpius | ok why if there is a blocking calls application people can't have call filtering? |
| 04:24.22 | Sc0rpius | I saw a python scripts that registers to /com/nokia/csd/call/Coming signal |
| 04:24.33 | Sc0rpius | and it block calls from numbers from a .txt file |
| 04:24.48 | javispedro | Sc0rpius: so if you decide to block, what do you next. Start killing random PIDs? |
| 04:24.54 | Sc0rpius | you don't need to hack half Maemo for that |
| 04:25.04 | javispedro | and see if it prevents ringing, ui showing, etc. |
| 04:25.22 | Sc0rpius | I never tried the script |
| 04:25.45 | Sc0rpius | http://myportableworld.com/posts/block-unwanted-calls-on-your-n900 |
| 04:26.11 | javispedro | seemingly, they just drop the call =) |
| 04:26.28 | javispedro | more complicated would be implementing selective muting/ignore call list |
| 04:27.03 | Sc0rpius | another one: http://maemo.org/packages/view/catblock/ |
| 04:32.49 | jonwil | I do know of one feature request someone had that is only possible by changing the dialer, someone wanted the ability to e.g. switch the call to a VoIP number based on certain criteria |
| 04:33.04 | jonwil | I think it was MohammadAG or DocScrutinizer who wanted that |
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| 04:34.37 | Sc0rpius | MohammadAG wants to change the UI so it includes a scroll bar to "swipe to answer" |
| 04:36.35 | jonwil | In any case there ARE use cases out there for features that can only be implemented by changing the dialer, messaging and notification UI. But its unlikely that anyone will ever be able to come up with a feature-complete replacement for any of those 3 |
| 04:36.45 | jonwil | Or that Nokia will release their source code |
| 04:36.57 | Sc0rpius | yup |
| 04:37.05 | Sc0rpius | will never happen |
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| 04:37.30 | jonwil | the requests on http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant are more likely to happen though IMO |
| 04:38.47 | jonwil | Anyone know what part of the world Jaffa is in or what time he is usually around? |
| 04:39.52 | javispedro | he's around in european central time mornings, usually. |
| 04:41.26 | jonwil | is that GMT+2?> |
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| 04:48.28 | javispedro | yep |
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| 04:56.55 | jonwil | hmmm, I have a quote from Quim Gill "This week I plan to discuss with Mika Leppinen what to do with the Maemo 5 licensing change requests. I will update here as soon as I know something." on bug 11128 |
| 04:56.56 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11128 Opening the source for Sharing services framework |
| 04:57.17 | jonwil | Dont know who Mika Leppinen is though |
| 04:57.30 | jonwil | but it sounds something vaguely resembling promising :P |
| 04:57.54 | Sc0rpius | and who's QUim Gill |
| 04:58.35 | jonwil | "open source advocate @ Maemo Devices" |
| 04:58.44 | jonwil | "Hi! I work in the Maemo SW team advocating for open source. In practice this means I'm responsible of promoting peace, love and intelligence at maemo.org + all our relationships with free software projects and the community in general." |
| 04:58.53 | jonwil | thats from his maemo.org profile |
| 04:58.54 | Sc0rpius | oh |
| 04:59.00 | Sc0rpius | poor guy, then he will be fired in any moment now |
| 04:59.08 | javispedro | Sc0rpius: qgil |
| 04:59.18 | Sc0rpius | yeah I got it |
| 04:59.38 | Sc0rpius | I wonder if all those Maemo/Meego guys working @ Nokia are scared |
| 04:59.45 | Sc0rpius | 'cos I would definitely be |
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| 05:00.17 | javispedro | well, some of them are here ... search logs ... |
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| 05:02.23 | Sc0rpius | I should hit the bed |
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| 06:02.42 | internetishard | can anyone get soundcloud.com to work on their n900? |
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| 06:15.27 | slonopotamus | so. why autobuilder segfaults? :) |
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| 06:52.15 | internetishard | how do you guys take less blurry photos with the n900? |
| 06:55.13 | dm8tbr | waits for autofocus to kick in and makes sure the glass in front ot the lense is clean |
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| 07:42.59 | mece | good morning |
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| 07:58.42 | jonwil | wishes there was a way to obtain .debs/changelogs of packages only found in SSU and not in SDK |
| 07:59.13 | MohammadAG | technically you can |
| 08:00.00 | jonwil | how? |
| 08:00.14 | MohammadAG | unpack the deb |
| 08:00.24 | jonwil | but how do I get the .deb for such a package |
| 08:00.30 | jonwil | e.g. how would I get rtcom-call-ui deb |
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| 08:00.43 | jonwil | its only in the SSU repos |
| 08:00.50 | MohammadAG | apt-get -d --reinstall install rtcom-call-ui |
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| 08:01.01 | MohammadAG | scp it from /var/cache/apt/archives |
| 08:01.08 | jonwil | great |
| 08:01.56 | jonwil | thanks |
| 08:01.58 | jonwil | just what I needed |
| 08:02.09 | MohammadAG | yw :) |
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| 08:17.29 | KevinB | morning guys |
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| 08:17.54 | KevinB | someone confident with painting custom QWidget on maemo? |
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| 08:28.34 | khertan_ | KevinB, depends ... what are you trying to achieve ? |
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| 08:29.22 | KevinB | I just tried to paint dots inside the Widget Rectangle |
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| 08:29.59 | KevinB | and use a setMask(triangle) not to see the dots outside the triangle |
| 08:30.32 | KevinB | on Desktop no problem but on maemo -> painted stuff outside triaangle is still visible |
| 08:32.06 | KevinB | actually I dont need that widget for now so it is ok, just I'd like to understand |
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| 08:32.14 | KevinB | May b a bug right |
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| 08:37.00 | khertan_ | KevinB, probably a stylesheet for Maemo5 style |
| 08:37.35 | KevinB | you de mean there' s some default stylesheet on maemo? gross |
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| 08:38.59 | MohammadAG | Maemo uses a theme engine |
| 08:39.09 | MohammadAG | QMaemo5Style, it's more than a stylesheet |
| 08:40.18 | KevinB | hoo I see it is a QStyle |
| 08:40.33 | KevinB | then I know where to look at now :) thanks |
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| 09:04.43 | jonwil | hmmm, interesting, Nokia documented the HAL interface to hald-addon-bme in the readme file of the hald-addon-bme package |
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| 09:07.39 | jonwil | nice, Nokia documented the DBUS interface for GPRS in csd-gprs package |
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| 09:09.40 | [DrkGUNMAN-N900] | quick question if anyone knows the answer. Is there a maximize/fullscreen toggle that will force a java application fullscreen? The normal maximise keystroke used by easydebian has no effect. |
| 09:11.11 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, HildonPannableArea is based on "MokoFingerScroll from libmokoui OpenMoko Application Framework UI library" |
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| 09:19.14 | cos^ | any ideas how to run oss (as in sound) applications on maemo, such as flite? |
| 09:20.28 | ShadowJK | i guess you'd need padsp |
| 09:20.52 | cos^ | it's available but doesn't work |
| 09:21.15 | ruskie | shouldn't alsa take care of that? |
| 09:21.20 | ruskie | setting alsa to redirect to pa |
| 09:21.29 | ruskie | and having alsa oss modules loaded to provide /dev/dsp |
| 09:24.06 | cos^ | i can't find anything relevant on google |
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| 09:43.55 | jonwil | Jaffa: ping |
| 09:45.51 | KevinB | Are the qt4.7.1 libraries out for maemo ? |
| 09:47.08 | MohammadAG | there are Qt 4.8 libs afaik |
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| 09:47.16 | MohammadAG | so you might find 4.7.1, or just go with 8 |
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| 09:50.32 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 09:50.33 | Jaffa | jonwil: pong |
| 09:50.44 | [DrkGUNMAN-N900] | mornin' |
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| 09:52.10 | jonwil | Jaffa: Quim Gil posted on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128 with an interesting statement "This week I plan to discuss with Mika Leppinen what to do with the Maemo 5 licensing change requests. I will update here as soon as I know something." |
| 09:52.12 | povbot | Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework |
| 09:52.53 | Jaffa | jonwil: Yes, that's cos of the poke :-) |
| 09:53.02 | jonwil | No idea who mika leppinen is |
| 09:53.13 | Jaffa | Me neither. |
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| 09:53.43 | Jaffa | Probably not http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mika-leppinen/4/912/104: "chief executive at Finnish Veterinary Association" |
| 09:53.44 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Interesting! |
| 09:53.57 | jonwil | Or which requests are going to be invesitgated |
| 09:54.03 | SpeedEvil | Jaffa: I'm guessing he is. |
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| 09:54.12 | SpeedEvil | Jaffa: He's responsible for releasing the hounds. |
| 09:54.31 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, Sc0rpius's modest has an option to use the default UI or tree view ;) |
| 09:54.33 | Jaffa | jonwil: qgil got the link and I explained the content. He's going to discuss all of those in light of stuff |
| 09:54.48 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Cool; and where does that option go? Have we solved the translations problem? |
| 09:55.07 | jonwil | well he posted on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128 even though that issue wasnt covered on the wiki link |
| 09:55.08 | povbot | Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework |
| 09:55.10 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, Settings, he has that in mind it seems, since it's a translation string, not an english one |
| 09:55.24 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Cos a missing translation could be all that's preventing https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11832 being made |
| 09:55.26 | povbot | Bug 11832: Offline IMAP support |
| 09:55.29 | MohammadAG | "mcenfioptionstreeview" is not english :p |
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| 09:55.48 | Jaffa | jonwil: True. Well, a complete review in light of the work you & DocScrutinizer51 did isn't a bad thing |
| 09:55.50 | MohammadAG | though that should be mcen_fi_options_treeview |
| 09:55.52 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: :-) |
| 09:56.19 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, he's reversing the translations and making them into packages I think |
| 09:56.40 | SpeedEvil | http://research.nokia.com/biblio?search=Mika+Leppinen |
| 09:57.22 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, http://gitorious.org/modest-l10n |
| 09:57.31 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Cool |
| 09:57.44 | SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertogg/2870834134/ |
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| 09:58.09 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: neat! Now if I only used email on n900. |
| 09:58.23 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Does modest do nntp? |
| 09:58.31 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, Sc0rpius is making it an enjoyable experience tbh |
| 09:58.38 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, what's nntp? :) |
| 09:58.45 | jonwil | In addition to the 8 or so items on the wiki page, I did some further bugzilla spelunking and found another 11 or so that are unresolved (either positive or negative) |
| 09:58.51 | SpeedEvil | Network News Transfer Protocol. |
| 09:58.54 | SpeedEvil | AKA usenet. |
| 09:58.54 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Network News Transfer Protocol |
| 09:59.06 | jonwil | The only one I found that isnt under "license change requests" is bug 3836 |
| 09:59.07 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/3836 Move MicroB to an open development process |
| 09:59.08 | MohammadAG | oh, not sure |
| 09:59.22 | SpeedEvil | It's like forums, but better. :( |
| 10:00.32 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: SpeedEvil: It does not. |
| 10:00.39 | SpeedEvil | k, thanks. |
| 10:00.54 | Jaffa | I'm not sure Modest's UI is suited to Usenet |
| 10:00.54 | jonwil | hopes for positive resolution of 11780, 11781 and 11953 |
| 10:00.55 | SpeedEvil | !bug 11780 |
| 10:00.56 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11780 consider opening rtcom-messaging-ui |
| 10:01.20 | MohammadAG | didn't qgil said they're looking at requests again? |
| 10:01.24 | MohammadAG | say* |
| 10:01.38 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Yes. |
| 10:01.45 | Jaffa | This conversation is looping ;-) |
| 10:01.54 | MohammadAG | :D |
| 10:01.55 | khertan_ | didn't qgil said they're looking at requests again? |
| 10:02.06 | khertan_ | :) |
| 10:02.07 | MohammadAG | now correct the typo khertan_ |
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| 10:02.51 | khertan_ | QGil n'a pas parler de regarder encore aux requetes ? |
| 10:03.09 | khertan_ | MohammadAG, ^ this is one correct syntax |
| 10:03.27 | jonwil | the unanswered question is whether the reasons previously used to deny a release are still going to be used as a reason to deny a release |
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| 10:05.51 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, do you have a link handy to Gitorious's ssh keys page? |
| 10:06.01 | MohammadAG | I can't access my dashboard for some reason |
| 10:06.15 | Conzadc | hello |
| 10:06.25 | Conzadc | !list |
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| 10:08.38 | jonwil | bah, maemo wiki is down |
| 10:08.41 | jonwil | or not working for me |
| 10:08.44 | jonwil | now it works |
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| 10:15.40 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: http://gitorious.org/~jaffa/keys |
| 10:16.03 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, thanks |
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| 10:23.00 | divan | Nokia Qt SDK is updated today. /me expects trojan horses from Elop. |
| 10:23.35 | Muelli | :D |
| 10:23.48 | alterego | Now including dh-duh-duh, wp7 support and msvs .net express! |
| 10:24.57 | jonwil | suspects that the new QT SDK is going to remove those cellmodem headers he found a while back |
| 10:25.14 | alterego | Why? |
| 10:25.21 | alterego | Are they in the beta? :P |
| 10:25.27 | jonwil | no idea :P |
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| 10:25.41 | MohammadAG | hmm, 4.7.2 for Symbian |
| 10:25.49 | MohammadAG | when will Maemo's Qt be updated? :P |
| 10:25.50 | alterego | Sweet |
| 10:26.00 | ruskie | MohammadAG, when it becomes relevant again? |
| 10:26.07 | alterego | MohammadAG: when you put it in the cssu? :P |
| 10:26.36 | MohammadAG | alterego, what use is that? Apps that require will have to pull in the whole CSSU and be built against it |
| 10:26.45 | MohammadAG | require it* |
| 10:27.10 | MohammadAG | i.e apps in -devel will still use 4.7.0, and apps in the CSSU have an ABI break with 4.7.0 |
| 10:28.12 | alterego | Talk to x-fade, we should plan a transition. |
| 10:28.43 | alterego | otoh, ovi poses the largest problem. |
| 10:28.59 | MohammadAG | 4.7.0 is backwards compatible with 4.7.3 |
| 10:29.07 | MohammadAG | so ovi can stfu |
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| 10:29.19 | MohammadAG | 4.7.2, whatever |
| 10:29.24 | MohammadAG | it should be compatible with 4.8 too |
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| 10:31.03 | MohammadAG | meh |
| 10:31.09 | MohammadAG | Qt upgrades need a whole PR upgrade |
| 10:31.19 | MohammadAG | only Qt Mobility was separated from the PR |
| 10:31.24 | MohammadAG | (cc Jaffa) |
| 10:31.40 | MohammadAG | so the only way this can be done is with the CSSU :/ |
| 10:31.44 | MohammadAG | apt-cache show mp-fremantle-generic-pr | grep libqt4 (returns hits) |
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| 10:36.33 | [DrkGUNMAN-N900] | does anyone know of any java command switches to forcve a java app into fullscreen windowless mode? |
| 10:37.45 | trx | talk directly to widget set (Qt, GTK, etc) to set widnow flag |
| 10:37.58 | trx | window* |
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| 10:40.43 | [DrkGUNMAN-N900] | afraid I'm not versed in any of that. was trying to get microemulator to go fullscreen without a titlebar using the ctrl+space keybind from easy debian with no luck. |
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| 10:48.07 | jonwil | is adding more use cases to some of the bugs under "license change requests" to increase the chance that someone at Nokia will decide that its worth putting in the effort |
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| 10:48.32 | jonwil | Nokia have said in the past that uses cases will help |
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| 10:49.39 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: put up a list of ones you would like use-cases for |
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| 10:50.09 | jonwil | If I find any that |
| 10:50.17 | jonwil | that I need more use cases for, I will let everyone know :) |
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| 10:55.26 | jonwil | hmmm, does the existence of ringtoned mean the reasons to open source libhildon-plugins-notify-sv go away? |
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| 10:58.06 | Corsac | imho there's no need for a reason but.. :) |
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| 10:59.06 | SpeedEvil | np: Boy Zone - Open Source me for a reason (Let that reason be love) |
| 10:59.17 | MohammadAG | is it me, or does Firefox 4 look like Chrome |
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| 11:04.29 | RST38h | Mohammad: It does |
| 11:04.44 | RST38h | Mohammad: And once Chrome removes the address bar, Firefox will do so too |
| 11:05.03 | MohammadAG | what does Chrome plan to use instead? |
| 11:05.54 | RST38h | kittens |
| 11:06.40 | robbiethe1st | MohammadAG, yea, it's sad isn't it - FF losing it's individuality. Fortunately, it can -stop- looking like chrome easily - Just right-click, uncheck "tabs on top" |
| 11:08.30 | SpeedEvil | You can put back the status bar - status bar 4 ever |
| 11:08.33 | SpeedEvil | add-on. |
| 11:08.39 | SpeedEvil | Also - ass-hatted. |
| 11:09.09 | robbiethe1st | To be fair, I've actually gotten to like the -new- replacement statusbar thingie they've added in the last beta |
| 11:09.28 | robbiethe1st | Where it's still in the same spot, but in it's own bar |
| 11:10.05 | robbiethe1st | It allows for longer URLs than the statusbar, especially when half-full of add-ons |
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| 11:25.34 | jonwil | http://pastebin.com/apRrgbY1 |
| 11:25.52 | jonwil | Those are the bugs where it is worth trying to put more use cases into |
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| 11:38.49 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Added a couple |
| 11:40.10 | jonwil | ok, great |
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| 11:46.58 | runejuhl | I've had a collision in the Conversations program with two different contacts appearing in the same conversation. I just noticed that the sqlite db containing "Events", el-v1.db, has a column "group_uid" which is the 7 last digits of the "remote_uid". I vaguely remember reading about a collision, but can't recall if it was about Maemo or some other OS -- could it be (or is it) connected to the group_uid column? |
| 11:49.30 | jonwil | btw, if you want to see more openness on Maemo, go vote for the bugs in the pastebin I linked |
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| 11:49.44 | jonwil | voting for them would show Nokia that there is community interface |
| 11:49.50 | jonwil | Community intreest |
| 11:49.55 | jonwil | interest |
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| 11:54.04 | jonwil | I am really hoping we can get more middleware code out of this (like the SMS code and the ICD stuff) |
| 11:54.51 | alterego | Which the powers that be don't really care about :P |
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| 12:05.40 | chem|st | jonwil: some of the code is not nokia's power to publish |
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| 12:08.05 | timeless_xchat | chem|st: that's mostly driver or near driver level stuff |
| 12:08.07 | toadpole | i'd written a meego image onto a 16 gig sd, i wanna kill it and format the emmc... any easy way to do it through x-term and restore original sizes? |
| 12:08.28 | timeless_xchat | the closer you get to the ui layer the more it's just managerial turf wars |
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| 12:12.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | toadpole: 'format' in context menu of card in hildon filemanager? |
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| 12:17.06 | jonwil | I doubt any of the code we are asking for in these various requests is code Nokia is unable to publish |
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| 12:18.31 | timeless_xchat | are you asking for sgx drivers? |
| 12:18.40 | jonwil | nope |
| 12:18.44 | jonwil | we know we wont get those |
| 12:19.05 | timeless_xchat | pragmatic realists... wow |
| 12:21.03 | jonwil | the list of various filed bugs includes the microb UI bits, rtcom-messaging-ui, rtcom-notification-ui, rtcom-call-ui, status-area-applet-battery, libosso-abook, MCE, libhildon-plugins-notifiy-sv, libbmeipc headers, libsms/csd-sms code, some ICD stuff and the various connectivity UI bits (status bar widgets, control panels, configuration dialogs etc) |
| 12:21.28 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 12:21.43 | RST38h | Soo, what is new in the world of suffering today? |
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| 12:23.30 | timeless_xchat | scrum! |
| 12:23.36 | timeless_xchat | it makes me suffer |
| 12:27.36 | jonwil | we are discussing outstanding license change requests and how likely they are to be fulfilled |
| 12:29.12 | RST38h | scrum shscrum who cares |
| 12:29.28 | RST38h | jonwil: My pocket Cpt Obvious says UNLIKELY. |
| 12:30.04 | RST38h | jonwil: But, of course, you have to be quick, while there is someone at Nokia who knows what you are talking about |
| 12:30.14 | jonwil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128#c8 says something might happen |
| 12:30.15 | povbot | Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework |
| 12:30.24 | RST38h | In 6 months, the response may well be "Huh?" |
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| 12:58.52 | jonwil | fact is, there is someone at Nokia willing to try and move forward on this. So we should encourage them to do that |
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| 13:12.53 | MohammadAG | timeless_xchat, fixed orientation lock, just had to reroute /system/osso/af/slide-open somewhere else :p |
| 13:14.55 | E0x | MohammadAG: is that for the "slide to answer project" |
| 13:15.04 | MohammadAG | no, microb |
| 13:15.15 | E0x | oh ok |
| 13:15.18 | MohammadAG | orientation lock, as on iOS/Android |
| 13:15.31 | E0x | no clue , but is ok |
| 13:15.44 | E0x | i prefe use microb in landspace |
| 13:15.59 | MohammadAG | i wonder where microb settings are |
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| 13:21.06 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Is that a portrait orientation lock? :-) |
| 13:21.48 | jonwil | MohammadAG, if you have any further use cases for any of the bugs linked here http://pastebin.com/apRrgbY1 please post them |
| 13:23.25 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, landscape, but microB listens to KB slides and mce instead of hildon-desktop rotation |
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| 13:25.05 | timeless_xchat | mohammadag, :) |
| 13:25.55 | MohammadAG | timeless_office, does microB use gconf for rotation settings? |
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| 13:26.44 | BCMM | hands timeless_xchat a tab key |
| 13:27.00 | BCMM | (shift-space for maemo xchat) |
| 13:27.32 | timeless_xchat | microb=osso-browser (.browser, .browser_typed_urls) + xulrunner (.mozilla/microb/prefs.js) |
| 13:27.43 | pupnik | my n900 forgets the date with every battery change... is there a replaceable clock battery on the board? |
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| 13:28.13 | MohammadAG | yes, needs desoldering and stuff |
| 13:28.16 | lolcat | pupnik: I have the same issue |
| 13:28.35 | timeless_xchat | BCMM, :o, thanks |
| 13:28.36 | MohammadAG | i used to have the issue |
| 13:28.42 | MohammadAG | dropped the phone and it worked :) |
| 13:28.43 | pupnik | MohammadAG: any pictures or something? |
| 13:28.48 | lolcat | Can't the N900 synch itself? |
| 13:29.01 | pupnik | oh dear, i don't want to solder on that board |
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| 13:29.12 | internetishard | can anyone get soundcloud.com to work on their n900? |
| 13:29.22 | MohammadAG | it's just a small solder afaik |
| 13:29.34 | MohammadAG | it's the same as the OpenMoki FR battery |
| 13:29.41 | timeless_xchat | what do you mean rotation settings? |
| 13:29.59 | MohammadAG | "Enable rotation" |
| 13:30.16 | pupnik | MohammadAG: do you know any special search terms for it for google? "FR battery"? |
| 13:30.26 | timeless_xchat | Enable_Rotation=true in .browser |
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| 13:30.45 | MohammadAG | FreeRunner, ask DocScrutinizer |
| 13:31.19 | MohammadAG | timeless_xchat, what's .parentlock? |
| 13:31.36 | eichi | someone has _much_ expecience in the application "frontView" ? what are the main things, to get good results? only one paper per image? dark or white background? someone has some tipps? |
| 13:31.49 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, it's the code so your parents can stop you from watching the satellite porn channels... |
| 13:31.50 | timeless_xchat | it's gecko's way of saying "this profile is in use by a running process" |
| 13:32.06 | timeless_xchat | ideally when gecko quits, it deletes the file |
| 13:32.26 | timeless_xchat | note that the lock file names predate mozilla/5 |
| 13:32.33 | RST38h | timeless: Any hidden trick to permanently enable text reflow? |
| 13:32.38 | MohammadAG | but browserd never quits :P |
| 13:32.51 | timeless_xchat | rst38h: afaik there isn't |
| 13:32.58 | pupnik | it would be fun to solder a tiny battery in parallel with the n900 main battery to allow hotswap |
| 13:33.00 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf |
| 13:33.03 | timeless_xchat | mohammadag: technically false |
| 13:33.23 | timeless_xchat | you can ask browserd instances to stop |
| 13:33.32 | timeless_xchat | and note that there are a couple |
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| 13:34.12 | jonwil | anyone know2 what vcard is? |
| 13:34.19 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: for hotswap you should use a USB dongle with some 4 NiMH button cells |
| 13:35.14 | pupnik | hmm that's clever |
| 13:35.29 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: for backup bat for RTC see above link. The capacitor type at bottom recommended (by me :-D) |
| 13:35.52 | lolcat | So if you have the charger plugged in you can hot swap sim cards? |
| 13:35.58 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: sure it's clever. That's an Idea I came up with :-P |
| 13:36.15 | crashanddie | jonwil, wasn't vcard supposed to be this technology to exchange identities from phone to phone? Virtual Business Cards? |
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| 13:36.24 | pupnik | http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seiko-Instruments/XH414H-IV01E/?qs=i40xbvP3shnmoWHAOBMGLw%3d%3d << ? |
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| 13:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: for the battery dongle hotswap, switch on VBUS while battery is good for that. Then when swapping just follow the instructions in my hotswap tmo thread |
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| 13:38.57 | pupnik | yes i just remembered that |
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| 13:39.42 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: theoretically it would be possible to wire up unregulated button cells in parallel with the main battery leads right? |
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| 13:39.59 | pupnik | they just float along with whatever voltage the main battery has |
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| 13:40.09 | pupnik | well duh |
| 13:40.16 | pupnik | they'd be almost empty when the main batt is empty |
| 13:40.16 | DocScrutinizer | no, only a single LiIon cell of same chemistry type would play nice |
| 13:40.26 | pupnik | ah |
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| 13:40.48 | pupnik | thanks for the link DocScrutinizer |
| 13:40.55 | DocScrutinizer | you can parallel cels, but only if they are same chemistry and charge state |
| 13:40.59 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 13:41.50 | MohammadAG | timeless_xchat, do settings stay in memory? |
| 13:42.05 | MohammadAG | cause changing it changed the setting back |
| 13:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: yes, that link you posted looks OK |
| 13:44.22 | DocScrutinizer | (I haven't checked exact dimensions) |
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| 13:45.29 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: jonwil: sure, export vcard from maemo contacts. look at the file |
| 13:46.25 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi) |
| 13:46.28 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: it's linked from the last product on the pdf page you gave me |
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| 13:48.09 | jonwil | has run out of things to reverse engineer |
| 13:48.14 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (~mg@88-119-11-77.static.zebra.lt) |
| 13:49.05 | lcuk | jonwil, how about actually forward engineering something then |
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| 13:49.36 | lcuk | implement the source code and produce future binaries |
| 13:49.41 | ruskie | jonwil, why not holp with the powervr drivers then? http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/new-high-priority-project-powervr-drivers |
| 13:50.34 | jonwil | None of the things I want to code are things I can do at this point |
| 13:50.37 | alterego | Curious |
| 13:50.40 | jonwil | for various reasons |
| 13:50.49 | jonwil | As for PowerVR drivers, good luck cloning those |
| 13:51.02 | jonwil | They are insanely complex |
| 13:51.11 | lcuk | jonwil, I thought that a few years ago |
| 13:51.28 | jonwil | Is anyone with actual skills working on powervr drivers? |
| 13:51.44 | ruskie | jonwil, apparently |
| 13:51.53 | ruskie | Modification of the Linux Kernel driver is at least possible, and will allow print-outs to be taken of the data passing through it. (As there is no encryption, this is perfectly possible and reasonable). From these print-outs, it will be possible to write simple OpenGL applications that perform ... |
| 13:51.58 | ruskie | ... simple 3D operations, one by one, and the results observed, recorded and then, ultimately, replayed. This well-known method has already been utilised to great effect, to reverse-engineer the majority of Samsung's FIMD-3D engine present in the S3C6410 and the S5PC100. |
| 13:52.15 | jonwil | Thats not as simple as it sounds, trust me |
| 13:52.23 | MohammadAG | wonders |
| 13:52.23 | ruskie | never said it was |
| 13:52.30 | MohammadAG | so if I want to fix microB |
| 13:52.43 | ruskie | The USSE opcodes have been reverse-engineered, as well as the assembly language decoded. This is an important step forward because this information cannot easily be decoded from simple observation of the data passing through the Linux Kernel Driver. |
| 13:52.54 | MohammadAG | I need to listen to dbus (from C, meh), then set slider state to on when orientation's locked |
| 13:52.58 | MohammadAG | sounds dirty :/ |
| 13:53.10 | MohammadAG | (even if the slider's locked) |
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| 13:55.02 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you're talking gibberish |
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| 13:55.57 | jonwil | for PowerVR, figuring out 3D is not the highest priority, figuring out 2D is |
| 13:57.21 | jonwil | Having working X (on maemo and meego) without closed-bins is more usefull than trying to get OpenGL going |
| 13:57.46 | ruskie | I thought that was already possible |
| 13:58.04 | crashanddie | Clark Kent is an IT nerd! http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35310148 |
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| 13:59.12 | jonwil | 2D is not possible, not without libpvr2d.so |
| 13:59.21 | jonwil | and friends |
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| 14:00.16 | ruskie | jonwil, also might be of interest: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?28188-There-Might-Be-An-Open-PowerVR-Driver-In-Q3-11 |
| 14:00.29 | jonwil | I saw that link befor3e |
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| 14:02.13 | jonwil | I dont believe it will happen, I suspect PowerVR are too concerned about patents and IP issues to open their userspace like that |
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| 14:08.50 | jonwil | I am surprised that we havent seen Intel push hard for openness in this space |
| 14:09.16 | jonwil | If Intel said "we want to buy a graphics IP core for our mobile ATOM efforts and we will buy from someone who is open" companies might listen |
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| 14:11.09 | jonwil | as for the situation with the N900 GPU, best place to start |
| 14:11.22 | jonwil | IMO is to reverse engineer libsrv_um.so |
| 14:11.31 | jonwil | which is a thunk layer to kernel |
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| 14:13.16 | lcuk | jonwil, are your reverse engineering efforts above board? I thought it was frowned upon in many juristictions? |
| 14:13.47 | lcuk | Open Source working around roadblocks has historically not been about reverse engineering, but by coding around the issue! |
| 14:14.12 | lcuk | so, have you looked around to see what open source 3d libraries there are already? |
| 14:14.30 | lcuk | (or 2d for that matter) |
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| 14:15.07 | lcuk | (noted based on the mediaplayer guys, they did not reverse engineer the closed binaries, they reimplemented the app) |
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| 14:16.03 | khertan_ | lcuk, this work because you can connect to the backend ... else reverse will be necessary :) |
| 14:16.46 | lcuk | khertan_, I thought linux engineers poked at the hardware metal to work out how to use it |
| 14:16.59 | lcuk | rather than looking at any existing binaries |
| 14:17.17 | lcuk | (which is probably more work than just sending signals) |
| 14:18.11 | lcuk | I remember at college questions like "you have a black box with N wires, work out the logic and tell us what this box does" |
| 14:18.15 | khertan_ | lcuk, in fact ... most of the time, the easiest way is to sniff how the official closed driver talk to the materials ... and reproduct it :) |
| 14:18.34 | lcuk | and we had to send binary signals into the box and record results to see what logic gate was inside |
| 14:19.07 | lcuk | khertan_, and whilst that may be the simplest, as I said in a lot of countries reverse engineering is not considered right |
| 14:19.18 | khertan_ | this kind of things is quite easy with 2^8 logic gate ... but not here |
| 14:19.19 | jonwil | reverse engineering by disassembly is very common in all sorts of situations |
| 14:19.29 | dschoepe | not considered legal perhaps, but it'd still be right, imo |
| 14:20.01 | khertan_ | lcuk, it s not reverse by disassemblies, it s understanding how to talk to the materials by reproducting the same communication protocols |
| 14:20.09 | khertan_ | and this is legal in france |
| 14:20.19 | lcuk | jonwil, where are you? |
| 14:20.26 | jonwil | Australia |
| 14:20.35 | lcuk | and would the results of your work be legal in other countries? |
| 14:20.42 | khertan_ | lcuk, yep |
| 14:20.44 | khertan_ | :) |
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| 14:22.27 | jonwil | has been reverse engineering binaries since the days when the best way to reverse engineer stuff was to use SoftIce system debugger to do it |
| 14:24.14 | lcuk | has been writing new program source since the days when the best way to code stuff was to use the ZX Spectrum BASIC interpreter. |
| 14:24.26 | jonwil | I been writing new code for years too |
| 14:24.33 | jonwil | but reverse engineering stuff is fun :P |
| 14:25.30 | jonwil | mostly I reverse engineer games |
| 14:26.16 | lcuk | mostly I play and write games |
| 14:26.26 | lcuk | notices a theme here ;) |
| 14:26.27 | SpeedEvil | pokes lcuk. |
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| 14:29.52 | pupnik | i just recently learned that my first programming was on microsoft basic :( |
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| 14:32.38 | jonwil | back to thinking about what to poke around inside next |
| 14:34.53 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (what logic gate) have fun when the 'logic gate' is any LSI, like a small CPU or sth :-P |
| 14:35.30 | jonwil | Go ask the people behind MAME what deep level reverse engineering is like :P |
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| 14:37.03 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, was just example, I cannot remember which it was |
| 14:37.15 | lcuk | but black box decoding was the way we were taught |
| 14:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ...or - in this case - a GFX core |
| 14:37.26 | lcuk | yeah |
| 14:37.34 | lcuk | there are similar things I remember from the n810 |
| 14:37.43 | lcuk | someone worked out how to poke it to switch it on |
| 14:37.59 | lcuk | remember, n810 there was no sgx binary so everything had to be done the old fashioned proper way |
| 14:38.32 | jonwil | I think those interested in the PowerVR stuff should talk to the Noveau guys about how to reverse engineer linux graphics drivers |
| 14:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: what do you think HOW that dude worked out how to switch it on? |
| 14:38.48 | lcuk | jonwil, the n8x0 had no binaries to reverse engineer |
| 14:38.52 | DocScrutinizer | by throwing random patterns at it? |
| 14:38.57 | jonwil | yeah true |
| 14:39.07 | lcuk | and has a powervr core inside it |
| 14:39.30 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, hard work |
| 14:39.38 | lcuk | notice, WD-1 was not released |
| 14:39.47 | lcuk | it took until WD-40 to find something worthwhile |
| 14:39.57 | lcuk | if the guys had given up early we would all have rusty bolts |
| 14:41.23 | DocScrutinizer | frankly, nobody tries to figure how some complex chip works, by throwing patterns at it and watch the results - as long as there's a working implememntation |
| 14:41.41 | DocScrutinizer | in windoze or sth which you can trace to see how it's done |
| 14:42.03 | lcuk | *Windows |
| 14:42.20 | jonwil | yeah trying to blackbox reverse engineer the N900 GPU would be stupid when we have a working implementation we can poke around in and play with |
| 14:42.28 | jonwil | including an open source kernel blob we can hack |
| 14:42.42 | lcuk | meh, sense of adventure |
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| 14:43.15 | jonwil | my view is that I use whatever sources of information I can get my hands on |
| 14:43.16 | DocScrutinizer | and monitoring a process and carefully trace what it does is *not* RE in the ToS meaning |
| 14:44.00 | DocScrutinizer | copying the source (even binary source) would be RE that'S forbidden in some countries |
| 14:44.18 | jonwil | AFAIK I never agreed to an EULA for my phone |
| 14:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | using gdb or tcpdump or whatever tools to monitor is not RE |
| 14:44.45 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: you did |
| 14:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | but that's highly irrelevant |
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| 14:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | I must not disassemble bme and then re-implement it based on the original assembler listing. But I'm free to check what bme is acting like wrt writing registers in bq24150, and then conclude what I want to do to treat battery in a similar or better way |
| 14:46.53 | jonwil | unless it involves copy protection, in the US at least, cleanroom reverse engineering is legal (i.e. the IBM bios clone) |
| 14:47.14 | DocScrutinizer | same applies to all the other interfaces bme has to other system components and the data that's transferred there |
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| 14:47.21 | jonwil | It might be a copyright violation to disassemble something and write direct code based on the results |
| 14:47.34 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 14:48.39 | jonwil | in the case of the N900 though, I cant see Nokia deciding to sue me for reverse engineering status-area-applet-battery or libcsd-sms :P |
| 14:49.00 | Veggen | Didn't the IBM bios cloning include describing the interfaces to someone else, who subsequently did the coding...? |
| 14:49.00 | DocScrutinizer | in EU it's even allowed to disassemble and patch the binary, to fix issues that the manufacturer won't address |
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| 14:49.28 | lcuk | just reads old computer magazines |
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| 14:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | well, o/ - too nice weather outside to sit here and chat - bbl |
| 14:52.55 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Presumably the slide redirect would be useful for portrait lock as well :-) |
| 14:55.49 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 14:56.03 | MohammadAG | just make a new boolean and sed the browser binary |
| 14:56.12 | MohammadAG | like Slide instead of slide |
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| 14:59.45 | niala1 | hello, question: GPS guidance works ovimap? i see contradictory information on the web? |
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| 15:03.14 | jonwil | GPS does work with ovi maps |
| 15:03.23 | jonwil | what you dont get is the voice navigation |
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| 15:07.53 | niala1 | ok i found it http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/maps-support/compatibility-and-download#/nokia-n900/ |
| 15:08.08 | Macer | jonwil: compared to google nav... ovi maps is retarded :) |
| 15:08.21 | jonwil | yep |
| 15:08.22 | niala1 | Macer: why? |
| 15:08.37 | Macer | because google nav is just better |
| 15:08.46 | niala1 | what is the diff ? |
| 15:08.46 | Macer | ive used both and gnav is awesome |
| 15:08.46 | niala1 | ok |
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| 15:09.19 | Macer | voice turn by turn directions... better routes... way way better interface |
| 15:09.27 | Macer | easier to choose your destination |
| 15:09.48 | Macer | ovi maps just has a retarded method to choose a destination |
| 15:10.16 | Macer | in gnav you just say your destination and it gets you there |
| 15:11.31 | Macer | once nitdroid can use the gps i don't think i would ever use ovi maps again |
| 15:11.59 | E0x | what about mappero ? |
| 15:12.01 | Macer | oh yeah... not sure about this but if you miss a turn gnav auto reroutes within seconds |
| 15:12.04 | E0x | look like work fine |
| 15:12.17 | *** join/#maemo tych0 (~lars@42.194.216.81.static.ov.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 15:12.18 | Macer | E0x: never tried it |
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| 15:13.14 | Macer | E0x: i will try it out |
| 15:13.28 | E0x | ok |
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| 15:13.31 | Macer | i have to get to the airport soon anyways |
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| 15:13.52 | E0x | the only thing i think is not sure about offline use |
| 15:14.06 | jonwil | I doubt GPS will be working on nitdroid anytime soon |
| 15:14.37 | E0x | or bme |
| 15:14.55 | Macer | jonwil: i doubt a lot of things will be working in anything but maemo any time soon |
| 15:15.24 | Macer | i am actually just considering getting myself a G2 |
| 15:15.25 | jonwil | GPS will be working on MeeGo soon I suspect |
| 15:15.56 | Macer | heh. i doubt it :) no offense to the meego guys.. but meego won't be functional in forever |
| 15:16.05 | Macer | the n900 is almost obsolete |
| 15:16.06 | E0x | the launch of meego was not set to april ? |
| 15:16.08 | jonwil | AFAIK GPS (not AGPS) works and is awaiting legal approval to push the right bits to the meego-closed-bins repo |
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| 15:16.29 | Macer | E0x: not sure about the n900 port |
| 15:16.45 | E0x | well n900 is the dev plataform |
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| 15:17.26 | Macer | E0x: i don't think so. i thought the arm adaptation was more of a pure community driven platform |
| 15:17.35 | tych0 | Might as well get yourself a stockpile of n900s |
| 15:17.45 | tych0 | meegoo looks crap to me |
| 15:17.58 | Macer | tych0: i like my n900 tbh |
| 15:18.03 | Macer | i hate nokia ;) |
| 15:18.10 | E0x | tych0: why ? |
| 15:18.15 | Macer | they totally dropped the ball over the last 5 years |
| 15:18.17 | E0x | what i saw so far look good |
| 15:18.34 | Macer | which is why i am sure most of their exec board will be fired soon |
| 15:18.41 | Macer | or "repositioned" |
| 15:19.14 | Macer | they had a real chance if they put effort in maemo when they had the chance.. but they didnt want to give up on symbian |
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| 15:19.38 | Macer | which was totally obsolete in features compared to other mob OSes |
| 15:20.14 | niala1 | ovi maps vs gnav http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmOz1iVypnE |
| 15:20.28 | Macer | the real shame is if they marketed maemo before apple ... they'd be what the iphone is now |
| 15:20.47 | Macer | they were way ahead of the game when the iphone came out |
| 15:21.07 | Macer | but dropped the ball over and over because they considered touch things niche |
| 15:21.19 | Macer | and put almost no effort in maemo |
| 15:21.28 | Macer | a true shame |
| 15:21.37 | niala1 | yep |
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| 15:22.22 | Macer | ah well... now they are in panic mode using winmob and abandoning all their operating systems |
| 15:22.34 | Macer | once ms gets their claws into nokia they are done |
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| 15:23.03 | E0x | i don't think that |
| 15:23.05 | Macer | they will only have business users who require exchange support |
| 15:23.12 | niala1 | Macer: swap to meego ? no? |
| 15:23.19 | Macer | which is all winmob is really good for |
| 15:23.30 | pupnik | a lot of people put great effort into maemo :| |
| 15:23.31 | Macer | most end users want ios or android |
| 15:23.51 | pupnik | Macer: that's why android on linux (maemo/meego) is such a value proposition |
| 15:23.54 | Macer | pupnik: oh i agree... but nokia's support could have been way better |
| 15:23.58 | pupnik | yes |
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| 15:24.27 | pupnik | even if you only support a subset of android apps, you cet the 'multipass' effect (lilu) |
| 15:24.28 | Macer | the actual community kept maemo going. which is sad |
| 15:24.41 | Macer | google put its full weight behind android.. and look at it now |
| 15:24.48 | Macer | it is crushing everything |
| 15:24.55 | pupnik | and you can do your 1st class apps in gtk or qt or whatever |
| 15:25.21 | Macer | while nokia has to use a MS os? |
| 15:25.36 | Macer | they can eliminate half their programmers now |
| 15:25.43 | Macer | if not all of them :) |
| 15:25.44 | E0x | maybe windows mobile 7 will be good |
| 15:25.46 | niala1 | i hesitate between android or a n900 second hand |
| 15:25.55 | E0x | nobody is sure about anything |
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| 15:26.00 | pupnik | niala1: i thought you bought the n900 for 180? |
| 15:26.08 | pupnik | that was a good deal. all of them are 200+ here |
| 15:26.40 | niala1 | yes but the guy is very slow, he say he call me but he don't!!. |
| 15:26.43 | pupnik | i have the archos android tablet and it only gets used for media playback - it's really no fun |
| 15:26.48 | pupnik | ah ok |
| 15:27.05 | pupnik | n900 has better apps than android :) |
| 15:27.08 | pupnik | for me at least |
| 15:28.19 | Macer | pupnik: maemo has a lot of great apps.. but nokia made devs skeptical of making anything on it because every revision means the last one is dropped |
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| 15:28.57 | pupnik | has anyone tried meego on n900 and can comment on performance of starting-up apps? |
| 15:29.04 | pupnik | i heard it's terrible |
| 15:29.16 | pupnik | "10 seconds to start dialer" |
| 15:29.25 | pupnik | maybe he had swap issues, i dunno |
| 15:30.00 | lcuk | pupnik, making sure you really want to answer that call |
| 15:30.06 | lcuk | the bug is filed under dialer afaik |
| 15:30.18 | lcuk | and the app will be mem locked or something |
| 15:30.52 | E0x | men locked ? |
| 15:31.04 | E0x | reserve mem for it ? |
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| 15:31.31 | pupnik | lcuk: ok how about starting some random qt app... |
| 15:31.47 | pupnik | btw i got cpu-less speaker protection running in mpg123 |
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| 15:32.23 | pupnik | sound quality is meh though |
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| 15:32.32 | pupnik | but it's good for lectures/spoken podcasts |
| 15:32.40 | divan | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzi4xfMWMuw - funny Intel ad ) |
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| 15:53.30 | pupnik | wheee |
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| 15:54.18 | pupnik | combined with "easyplay" we'll have ultralow cpu mp3 playback :D |
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| 16:00.57 | pupnik | maaarghh! fried remaining speaker again stress-testing |
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| 16:06.22 | toggles | now you need 0 cpu to play back mp3 |
| 16:06.41 | pupnik_ | about 10% at 250mhz |
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| 16:07.30 | lcuk | isn't there some new age mystical mp3s that actually promise to recharge your batteries just by listening to them? |
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| 16:11.43 | DocScrutinizer | I'd be happy with whatever reasonable CPU usage if only we get decent EQ, and gapless mp3 playback |
| 16:11.44 | Macer | hm |
| 16:11.49 | Macer | trying ut mapero |
| 16:11.53 | Macer | *out |
| 16:13.34 | Macer | how do i get driving directions with it? |
| 16:13.36 | Macer | :) |
| 16:18.27 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: I think (still without yet checking the original bat's formfactor) that you should use http://www.mouser.com/access/?pn=628-XH414H-II06E |
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| 16:20.18 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: yes, verified in schematics board photo you need formfactor F which is XH414H-II06E |
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| 16:34.35 | Macer | hm |
| 16:34.55 | Macer | when i look up businesses i get ... operation not permitted |
| 16:34.58 | Macer | wtf :) |
| 16:35.29 | pupnik_ | DocScrutinizer: unfortunately the 32 fixed-bands involved in mp3 decoding do not map to useable musical eq bands. |
| 16:35.44 | pupnik_ | at least those exposed by mpg123 do not |
| 16:36.06 | pupnik_ | However now my second speaker has stopped working again, so testing is out for the time-being :D |
| 16:37.54 | Macer | hm |
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| 16:42.53 | trx | is it allowed to upload a .deb to repos with a precompiled binary? |
| 16:43.17 | pupnik_ | not that i know, trx |
| 16:43.26 | pupnik_ | possibly in the non-free section |
| 16:43.42 | lcuk | trx does your precompiled binary work on both x86 and arm? |
| 16:43.46 | lcuk | *grin* |
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| 16:44.04 | trx | only arm because of eg, libconic |
| 16:44.08 | poomalairaj | Hello friends, I am trying to connect my n900 to my pc using usb. I want to ssh from my pc to n900. I followed n900 usb networking wiki. But i am not able to ping my n900 from my pc. My pc's ip is 192.168.1.5. Please guide me with the configuration to be done |
| 16:44.50 | andre__ | well. what went wrong? |
| 16:44.51 | trx | pupnik its an open source app but i cant get the autobuilder to compile it |
| 16:44.56 | lcuk | poomalairaj, there may be many many things getting in your way - check your pc firewall/viruschecker/time of day etc |
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| 16:45.10 | lcuk | trx, which app? better to fix it |
| 16:45.16 | lcuk | than to offer bad binary |
| 16:45.34 | lcuk | ie, where is the failure log from maemo autobuilder |
| 16:45.36 | trx | because it uses lazarus/free pascal which is really hard to pack as a deb and send it to the repos |
| 16:45.39 | lcuk | (it sends a mail with link) |
| 16:45.39 | trx | (for me) |
| 16:45.43 | trx | the app is just fine |
| 16:45.46 | trx | there is nothing to fix |
| 16:46.21 | trx | its the compiler i cant pack |
| 16:46.28 | trx | and its not in the repos :/ |
| 16:46.40 | lcuk | trx why can't you submit it? |
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| 16:47.12 | lcuk | if you built it by hand yourself, autobuilder should be able to rebuild if setup correctly :) |
| 16:47.25 | pupnik | lcuk: you have some really annoying comments here |
| 16:47.27 | poomalairaj | lcuk, Please clarify me am i using the right ip address and gateway. The guide says the n900's ip should be 192.168.2.15 but my computer's ip is 192.168.1.5 and broadband modem's address is 192.168.1.1 |
| 16:47.27 | trx | i didnt build the compiler myself |
| 16:47.54 | trx | there is no FPC compiler in the repos, so autobuilder cant use it to compile my app |
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| 16:49.06 | lcuk | pupnik, which comments are annoying? |
| 16:49.20 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:50.50 | pupnik | trx: perhaps you should make a dummy package that downloads the binary from another location |
| 16:51.31 | pupnik | if there are objects you cannot move, sometimes you need to go around them |
| 16:51.58 | trx | i have created a .deb which works properly with the binary in it |
| 16:52.08 | trx | and installed it on my n900 and it works well |
| 16:52.26 | trx | its just that i dont know if im allowed to send that to the repos |
| 16:53.42 | trx | because of the whole "never install untested/trusted binaries" thing |
| 16:55.49 | trx | i would provide the source of course etc.. |
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| 17:08.34 | pupnik | trx: there's no mechanism for it. you need to get all your dependencies built in autobuilder |
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| 17:08.50 | pupnik | if you want to upload your package |
| 17:11.19 | trx | i was affraid of that, thats really lots of work, to install the compiler.. |
| 17:11.42 | trx | afraid* |
| 17:12.52 | lcuk | trx, trailblazers always end up doing more work than those that follow. |
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| 17:14.09 | trx | yeah but i can with one click compile my bin for win/*nix/mac/etc arm/x86/x86-64 |
| 17:14.38 | trx | and with one click change underlying widgetsets (qt/gtk/carbon/win) |
| 17:16.23 | lcuk | trx, :) moving from what you can do to what anyone can do is always tricky. |
| 17:16.31 | lcuk | speaks from experience |
| 17:17.12 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_xchat: to convert from e.g "mcen_ap_name" to sth like "mail" would I use gettext(1)? I.E. are those translations in standard .po or has Nokia invented another proprietary system for that? |
| 17:18.00 | trx | lcuk this isnt a problem really, its a problem for me as im new to linux and debian packages, thats why its *atm* hard for me to create a package |
| 17:18.44 | trx | while someone who works with linux and fpc could probably do this in matter of hours |
| 17:19.10 | trx | i dont mind, ill learn from this ;) |
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| 17:25.11 | DocScrutinizer | trx: to upload something to the repositories, you actually upload a description file and a tarball to buildhost. You need an account to do this |
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| 17:25.58 | trx | yes, i have an account and can upload to extras |
| 17:26.19 | DocScrutinizer | the tarball consists of all the sources, so buildhost will create a package from it (when you're lucky) |
| 17:26.32 | trx | its just that the autobuilder doesnt have my compiler (FPC) |
| 17:27.15 | trx | and i dont know how to create a package of my compiler and even if i create one, am i allowed to upload it to the repos.. |
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| 17:27.54 | trx | but that question is for people at #fpc, not here |
| 17:28.43 | DocScrutinizer | umm, if your package needs a special compiler, then you need to "upload" that compiler first. Then buildhost will pull in the dependency and use it - afaik. Without that special compiler in repos neither buildhost nor anybody else can build your package |
| 17:28.52 | trx | so thats why i asked if i'm allowed to send binary and have the autobuilder actually compile nothing, just pack the .deb |
| 17:29.54 | DocScrutinizer | nah, the compiler of course also needs to be FOSS and get built on buildhost from source, with gcc or whatever |
| 17:30.11 | trx | it is FOSS of course |
| 17:30.19 | trx | its free pascal |
| 17:31.30 | trx | then its confirmed, i will have to create the compiler package first |
| 17:31.41 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: I guess there's no other way than to create a package for building FPC then. Dunno if there are other sources of executables that buildhost can pull from |
| 17:32.58 | DocScrutinizer | but you better ask somebody who got a bit of an idea how buildhost works - I'm an ignorant regarding that |
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| 17:33.46 | trx | someone told me some time ago that it extracts an empty OS image, installs the dependencies and then compiles my app |
| 17:34.37 | DocScrutinizer | esp my assumption about buildhost pulling in buildtime dependencies for tools from the own repos is mere hearsay and disclaimer "IIRC" |
| 17:34.54 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 17:37.37 | DocScrutinizer | honestly there should be quite a number of guys hanging out here who know way better than me and can give you really useful hints |
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| 17:43.35 | timeless_xchat | standard .po |
| 17:43.41 | DocScrutinizer | thnx |
| 17:43.51 | timeless_xchat | and nokia bought trolltech |
| 17:44.08 | timeless_xchat | who in turn already invented their own localization format (.ts) |
| 17:44.18 | timeless_xchat | do we get partial credit there? :) |
| 17:44.21 | DocScrutinizer | just wondering why an apt-get install gettext includes gettext-base which seems is 8MB :-/ |
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| 17:45.46 | DocScrutinizer | well, wondering why it's 8MB maybe |
| 17:46.16 | DocScrutinizer | or, to be precise, I just want the gettext cli binary without all that cruft |
| 17:46.36 | timeless_xchat | i want an n900 whose usb port works |
| 17:46.44 | timeless_xchat | you're being greedy |
| 17:46.48 | timeless_xchat | (low battery) |
| 17:46.54 | DocScrutinizer | or some other cli tool to get the translation mcen_ap_name->mail |
| 17:47.31 | timeless_xchat | mxr.maemo.org? |
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| 17:47.39 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* |
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| 17:48.25 | timeless_xchat | mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=mcen_ap_name&find=po$ |
| 17:48.34 | timeless_xchat | the second hit would work for me :) |
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| 17:49.22 | DocScrutinizer | I planned to use gettext(1) or any other cli means to translate that darn mcen_ap_name in a script I planned to publish. Can't depend on gettext-base (8MB) for users to use that script |
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| 17:50.18 | KaffeeJunky123 | Is anyone in here using muppen64plus from the extras-devel repository? |
| 17:50.39 | DocScrutinizer | also using greasemonky or some wget|awk wizardry requiring internet connectivity isn't bearable as a prerequisite for that script |
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| 17:52.36 | DocScrutinizer | honestly I wonder how Nokia managed to screw things so nicely once again. .desktop already has (and always had) generic support for I18n, still Nokia decided to implement .po based crap into it |
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| 17:54.15 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: just a question, do you also use Linux on your desktop or laptop computer? |
| 17:54.25 | DocScrutinizer | the whole translation concept of maemo is fundamentally flawed |
| 17:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: sure, why? |
| 17:55.12 | MohammadAG | all systems use .po -> .mo files |
| 17:55.19 | DocScrutinizer | so? |
| 17:55.20 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I'm just curious, what distro do you use? |
| 17:55.41 | DocScrutinizer | meh, irrelevant. No buntkuh crap |
| 17:55.56 | Venemo | just please tell me |
| 17:56.08 | DocScrutinizer | OpenSuse |
| 17:56.14 | MohammadAG | find /usr/share -name *.mo |
| 17:56.17 | Venemo | mhm |
| 17:56.21 | MohammadAG | openSUSE probably uses them too |
| 17:56.44 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: Opensuse is related to Fedora, right? |
| 17:56.46 | DocScrutinizer | so? what? |
| 17:57.13 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: nfc |
| 17:57.45 | Venemo | okay DocScrutinizer :) |
| 17:59.04 | divan | Where is javispedro? I can't understand how to use LD_PRELOAD support for preenv within the .desktop file. |
| 17:59.44 | divan | And why applications are called through d-bus service rather then via exec call as written .desktop? |
| 18:00.18 | MohammadAG | X-Osso-Service |
| 18:00.51 | divan | Any ideas? Simply passing LD_PRELOAD to .desktop/.service doesn't work. |
| 18:01.07 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# grep Name= /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop /usr/share/applications/hildon/htop.desktop |
| 18:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop:Name=mcen_ap_name |
| 18:01.10 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop:Name=uri_link_compose_email |
| 18:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/share/applications/hildon/htop.desktop:Name=Htop |
| 18:01.13 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/share/applications/hildon/htop.desktop:GenericName=Process Viewer |
| 18:01.45 | E0x | Venemo: archlinux |
| 18:01.57 | divan | MohammadAG, I see how it's called, but I can't understand the reason - why to use dbus service call instead of direct call? |
| 18:02.00 | MohammadAG | divan, .sh file |
| 18:02.27 | MohammadAG | divan, transitions when opening the file are one |
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| 18:02.53 | divan | MohammadAG, .sh means overwriting/duplication all wrapper.sh and env.sh stuff. I want to follow javispedro scripts and make as straightforward as possible. |
| 18:03.13 | divan | MohammadAG, didn't get about transitions. Can you explain? |
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| 18:03.47 | MohammadAG | the screenshot that opens when an app opens |
| 18:03.54 | MohammadAG | to make it look faster |
| 18:04.00 | E0x | i hate that |
| 18:04.00 | MohammadAG | that's the only thing I can think of atm |
| 18:04.02 | divan | Huh |
| 18:04.17 | MohammadAG | open the clock app, it'll show a screenshot then the application itself |
| 18:04.31 | E0x | it make look fast but crappy at the same time |
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| 18:04.53 | DocScrutinizer | also don't invoke twice, rather bring to front the running instance |
| 18:05.18 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, lcuk mentioned that to me once, but Exec= also bought back the running instance |
| 18:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | undeamonice it even, for preloaded apps |
| 18:05.47 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: yes, indeed |
| 18:05.48 | MohammadAG | so I'm guessing it's hildon-desktop doing some magic |
| 18:06.31 | DocScrutinizer | otoh iirc I was able to start independent instances of xterm |
| 18:06.34 | divan | How 'clock' invoker knows what screenshot to launch? |
| 18:06.41 | divan | Actually I like this idea) |
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| 18:07.19 | MohammadAG | divan, X-Osso-Service |
| 18:07.26 | MohammadAG | hildon_take_screenshot() takes a screenshot |
| 18:07.40 | MohammadAG | stores it as ~/.cache/launch/$serviceName.pvr |
| 18:07.41 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 18:08.01 | MohammadAG | the pvr is loaded using the Power VR SGX, so it shouldn't delay app startup |
| 18:09.02 | divan | MohammadAG, thanks |
| 18:10.05 | MohammadAG | yq |
| 18:10.07 | MohammadAG | yw* |
| 18:10.53 | E0x | yq = you cute ? |
| 18:10.56 | E0x | :P |
| 18:11.04 | DocScrutinizer | still I think it's a friggin PITA. I *always* click in vain on settings subfunctions _two times_ until I realize it's just the screenshot |
| 18:11.19 | E0x | DocScrutinizer: indeed |
| 18:12.12 | DocScrutinizer | freaking annoying |
| 18:12.42 | DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer just about everything over this stupid screenshot |
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| 18:13.11 | DocScrutinizer | anyway bbl for real now |
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| 18:15.32 | MohammadAG | I just look at the spinning circle |
| 18:15.45 | Venemo | hah |
| 18:15.46 | MohammadAG | I think my way of implementing it in PSFreedom works best :p |
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| 18:15.57 | Venemo | how do you implement it? |
| 18:16.04 | MohammadAG | an image saying PSFreedom is loading, Please Wait |
| 18:16.20 | MohammadAG | apt-get install it and see for yourself :P |
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| 18:33.19 | RiD | Hi :) |
| 18:33.26 | pupnik | o/ |
| 18:34.22 | RST38h | remoo pupnik, javispedro |
| 18:34.29 | javispedro | moorning |
| 18:35.23 | pupnik | hola RST38h |
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| 18:35.46 | pupnik | what do you think of the cursor-movement in falcons eye? make the arrow keys move diagonally? |
| 18:36.04 | pupnik | would allow navigating the levels without the stylus |
| 18:36.53 | pupnik | maybe it doesn't have enough users to make it worthwhile |
| 18:37.43 | divan | javispedro, morning. We've discussed reasons of invoking apps via d-bus service rather then direct exec from .desktop. Do you have something to add to 'visual launch speed-up' and 'preventing from launching twice'? |
| 18:38.01 | javispedro | "it is the maemo way"? |
| 18:40.49 | divan | javispedro, also I didn't find right way to pass LD_PRELOAD to wrapper.sh from .service file, so end up with own .sh wrappers. But maybe you'll suggest more elegant solution? |
| 18:41.38 | javispedro | if all you want is to add a single environment variable, I suggest you take a look at the "env" tool |
| 18:42.10 | *** join/#maemo trbs2 (~trbs@2001:470:d2ad:1:4a5b:39ff:fe7d:1623) |
| 18:42.15 | divan | javispedro, I need to add it per app only |
| 18:42.47 | divan | I tried to cal env from .service's Exec - no luck |
| 18:42.55 | divan | s/cal/call/ |
| 18:43.24 | javispedro | that's how I was doing it previously, so recheck... |
| 18:43.37 | javispedro | Exec=/usr/bin/env VAR=VALUE /path/to/binary --arg1 |
| 18:48.43 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo` (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) |
| 18:49.48 | divan | javispedro, it works! Thanks. I've tried with quotes before '/usr/bin/env' and it didn't work. |
| 18:50.07 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 18:52.55 | MohammadAG | who's on PR1.3 without the CSSU installed? |
| 18:53.01 | E0x | me |
| 18:53.35 | MohammadAG | dpkg -l hildon-desktop pwease? :P |
| 18:53.38 | *** join/#maemo timeless_xchat (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 18:54.28 | E0x | MohammadAG: no wireless access , what you need ? |
| 18:54.41 | E0x | ( i mean i can ssh from there and paste easy ) |
| 18:54.53 | MohammadAG | version number |
| 18:55.11 | MohammadAG | is it something like 2.2.140-1+0m5? |
| 18:55.14 | E0x | 1:2.2.140-1+0m |
| 18:55.26 | luke-jr | what is CSSU? |
| 18:55.33 | *** join/#maemo sid__ (~sid@nrbg-4d0773c4.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:55.33 | MohammadAG | 5, the last part didn't fit (you need to zoom out to see it), thanks anyway :) |
| 18:55.38 | MohammadAG | ~cssu |
| 18:55.38 | infobot | hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 18:56.44 | E0x | MohammadAG: yes is a 5 |
| 18:57.00 | E0x | i send the output to a file and check it |
| 18:58.56 | RiD | By the way guys, I'm working on a theme (and hope I get it finished), could someone later help me with packaging it? |
| 19:02.00 | *** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
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| 19:06.43 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 19:06.58 | MohammadAG | never knew you could disable desktop composition with CTRL+SHIFT+N |
| 19:08.00 | E0x | testing |
| 19:08.42 | E0x | hmm MohammadAG i dont see the effect |
| 19:08.55 | *** join/#maemo RiD (02530cfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.83.12.253) |
| 19:09.18 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@167.sub-75-208-113.myvzw.com) |
| 19:09.54 | MohammadAG | where are you doing it? |
| 19:10.09 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@12.185.22.226) |
| 19:10.11 | E0x | @n900 |
| 19:10.26 | alterego | Can you turn it back on though :P |
| 19:10.45 | alterego | http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/23/outraged-child-killers-to-protest-bill-gates-for-calling-them-child-killers |
| 19:12.20 | alterego | I just like the headline :D |
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| 19:17.37 | MohammadAG | alterego, toggles it |
| 19:17.38 | *** join/#maemo puchaty (~puchaty@77-254-38-16.adsl.inetia.pl) |
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| 19:19.32 | alterego | I don't notice a difference :P |
| 19:20.03 | javispedro | "disabling" composition on h-d would case title bar to disappear and a whole lot of wacky stuff |
| 19:20.05 | javispedro | I doubt it works |
| 19:20.57 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@nat67.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 19:20.59 | MohammadAG | it does, the title bar does disappear :P |
| 19:22.04 | javispedro | oh, good stuff then. |
| 19:22.25 | piggz | lo * |
| 19:22.49 | alterego | Weird, it re-enables it though |
| 19:22.57 | javispedro | that makes it even more easier to test when/if h-d causes tearing, MohammadAG. |
| 19:23.26 | alterego | It re-enables it when you task switch |
| 19:24.32 | javispedro | due to the way it is written h-d can't do very much when not compositing |
| 19:25.03 | MohammadAG | hmm, you're right |
| 19:25.10 | MohammadAG | turning off compositing reduces tearing |
| 19:27.05 | javispedro | now do us an antifavor and post it on tmo, calling it "turbo mode" or "greenpill mode" |
| 19:27.05 | luke-jr | alterego: funny enough, it wasn't long ago that Bill Gates referred to vaccines as a population control method |
| 19:27.25 | MohammadAG | javispedro, I wouldn't do that now, would I? :P |
| 19:27.38 | javispedro | >:) |
| 19:27.40 | MohammadAG | Overclock the UI is a nicer title |
| 19:27.53 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:28.18 | RST38h | 12 days uptime. REBOOT. |
| 19:28.42 | RST38h | Oh, holy Tentacled One, the Phone application really sucks at 12 days uptime... |
| 19:28.59 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 19:29.01 | javispedro | RST38h: make a video of it crawling |
| 19:29.19 | piggz | i had a wierd problem with my n900 earler that has never ocurred before...it constantly asked to choose a connection, if if one was active...no matter what was selected, it just kept popping up...anyone seen that before? |
| 19:29.23 | RST38h | javispedro: too painful even to watch it happen |
| 19:29.34 | javispedro | exactly, it would be like puppies dying |
| 19:30.08 | RST38h | javispedro: the screen blinks, rotates once, part of the phone UI comes up, it gets stuck, the screen rotates one more, it draws properly this time but is sitll stuck, and so forth for 5-10 seconds |
| 19:30.21 | E0x | piggz: maybe you setup something that is needed of a internet connection |
| 19:30.30 | E0x | and that is way is asking for one |
| 19:30.43 | piggz | E0x: but i selected one, and it was active |
| 19:31.03 | *** join/#maemo the_lord (~david@201.208.33.26) |
| 19:31.03 | E0x | check if is not getting disconnect |
| 19:31.10 | MohammadAG | Venemo, qildon's zoom works fine |
| 19:31.12 | E0x | maybe your provider is having problem with the data |
| 19:31.21 | Arkenoi | RST38h, are you going to attend the fruct conference? |
| 19:31.41 | piggz | E0x: well, it is fixed now after i rebooted it |
| 19:31.47 | E0x | ok |
| 19:32.16 | RST38h | Arkenoi: Nope |
| 19:32.30 | Arkenoi | RST38h, i probably will |
| 19:32.39 | RST38h | Arkenoi: No point, as none of the people I know will be there |
| 19:32.44 | piggz | whats all this twitter activity about an n950...does it look any good? |
| 19:32.55 | *** join/#maemo RiD (02530cfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.83.12.253) |
| 19:33.11 | E0x | no even exist |
| 19:33.14 | E0x | so not sure |
| 19:33.20 | pupnik | just one comment in a conference |
| 19:33.20 | Arkenoi | no, it does not |
| 19:33.21 | ShadowJK | is there any real information or is it just the name |
| 19:33.51 | Arkenoi | ShadowJK, the only thing we know for sure is that it won't have keyboard, so dump it |
| 19:34.08 | E0x | how you know that for sure if the problem not even exist |
| 19:34.11 | E0x | ? |
| 19:34.14 | E0x | :\ |
| 19:34.18 | piggz | there is a video on youtube, but i dont have the badnwidth atm to watch it :) |
| 19:34.50 | Arkenoi | E0x, Green told so |
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| 19:38.58 | ShadowJK | no keyboard? wtf. |
| 19:39.05 | ShadowJK | :( |
| 19:39.29 | javispedro | I do not think we know for sure it doesn't have a keyboard. |
| 19:40.21 | javispedro | also, still scraping the mwc videos for rumours? |
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| 19:40.25 | javispedro | sighs |
| 19:40.33 | timeless_xchat | historically we requeste people not speculate here |
| 19:40.48 | timeless_xchat | it prevents nokians from being present |
| 19:41.11 | RST38h | the history is ending anyway |
| 19:41.36 | RST38h | javispedro: makes no sense guessing. it will leak, sooner or later, and then everyone will complain about it. |
| 19:41.51 | javispedro | RST38h: then, after it leaks, it will be scrapped. |
| 19:41.52 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 19:42.01 | Venemo | MohammadAG: you merged it? |
| 19:42.06 | Venemo | MohammadAG: that's nice :) |
| 19:42.18 | javispedro | sighs at a pm |
| 19:42.20 | RST38h | javispedro: likely, yes |
| 19:42.24 | javispedro | I want to kill someone today. |
| 19:42.33 | RST38h | javispedro: ah, you too? :) |
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| 19:43.51 | MohammadAG | Venemo, manually, patch failed to patch it :p |
| 19:45.41 | RiD | Hey, a little stupid but important for me question |
| 19:46.15 | Scorcerer | is it worth to install community SSU (ofc with making backup first)? |
| 19:46.36 | RiD | What color scheme would you want on a glossy theme? Black and... ? Right now i'm using blue (009cff) |
| 19:47.36 | Arkenoi | wonders why community SSU is disabling communications on install and reboots even if no big changes are installed and nothing that may affect system stability during install happens. |
| 19:47.48 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu) |
| 19:47.49 | piggz | Scorcerer: imho, yes, ats great |
| 19:48.03 | pupnik | libya was under colonial rule by Italy |
| 19:48.09 | pupnik | dammit wrong channel |
| 19:48.10 | Scorcerer | so there are more changes than those listed on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog#PR_1.3.3.7-6.5 ? |
| 19:50.10 | ZogG | MohammadAG, always wanted to ask ifin PR_1.3.3.7-6.5 1337 is for leech? |
| 19:51.44 | RiD | it is funny, N900 is the first device ever getting a 1337 patch. Which means it's the most superior patch ever. |
| 19:52.13 | Arkenoi | how do i force rotation globally in community ssu (like ctrl-shift-R everywhere)? |
| 19:53.17 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 19:54.57 | chadi | Arkenoi: forcerotate=1 in thp_tweaks |
| 19:55.28 | chadi | Arkenoi: sorry, forcerotation=1 |
| 19:57.16 | Arkenoi | in transitions.ini ? |
| 19:57.51 | Venemo | Arkenoi: yes |
| 19:59.19 | ZogG | BCMM, huh |
| 19:59.20 | ZogG | BCMM, i'm desperated |
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| 20:04.39 | MohammadAG | ZogG, yes, it's 1337 |
| 20:04.51 | ZogG | MohammadAG \o/ yay |
| 20:06.51 | javispedro | did you know that microsoft's legal department definition of "mobile phone" is a device "that does not include a keyboard designed for use with more than two fingers" |
| 20:07.39 | MohammadAG | lolwut |
| 20:08.26 | javispedro | they're retarted. it seems that even on every EULA they put their usual GPL-bashing. |
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| 20:11.24 | dominikb | when will qt 4.7.2 be available for maemo5? |
| 20:11.50 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@ip-87-86-195-66.easynet.co.uk) |
| 20:12.22 | RiD | a mobile phone that does not include a keyboard designed for use with more than two fingers? That's... stupid |
| 20:12.32 | RiD | I always used 2 fingers :) |
| 20:15.05 | dominikb | i am asking because in qtmobility 1.1.1 the following issue should be fixed: ur.ly/Fr8n |
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| 20:24.59 | jacekowski | javispedro: laptop with apple iwheel |
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| 20:25.49 | javispedro | aha, the onion. |
| 20:27.37 | steve___ | Other than tweakr, are there any other apps which extended the functionality of profiles? |
| 20:29.20 | Arkenoi | steve___, porfilesX, but it sucks |
| 20:29.49 | steve___ | Arkenoi: good to know, thanks. |
| 20:30.47 | ruskie | has yet to find a use for more than silent and general profiles |
| 20:31.03 | *** join/#maemo RiD (02530cfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.83.12.253) |
| 20:31.29 | ruskie | and even those two I switch using a cronjob |
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| 20:34.15 | steve___ | ruskie: ascending volume would be nice. It would be nice to have a different sound for different email accounts or something like steve___@gmail.com vs steve___+nagios@gamil.com etc |
| 20:34.50 | RiD | Use two E-mail clients, but that's not a viable solution :D |
| 20:35.06 | ruskie | break libnotify to actually support that? |
| 20:35.31 | steve___ | I read on the board Andriod has a profile app which change profiles based on GPS location. Walking into a theatre would set it to silent... leaving sets it to 'general' |
| 20:35.54 | Venemo | ruskie, sound is not made by libnotify |
| 20:36.08 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo` (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) |
| 20:36.15 | RiD | lol? |
| 20:36.44 | ruskie | Venemo, I would assume that the notifier actually generates the sound based on event... |
| 20:36.47 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@186.215.206.130) |
| 20:36.48 | ruskie | not the actual app |
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| 20:37.10 | Venemo | ruskie, libnotify is a standard thing accross all Linux distros |
| 20:37.18 | Arkenoi | ah, forced auto rotation does bad trick for programs with "forced portrait" mode like spb brain evolution :-( |
| 20:37.28 | ruskie | Venemo, I know |
| 20:37.36 | Venemo | ruskie: it just handles some D-Bus stuff, but not sounds |
| 20:37.40 | steve___ | also it would be nice to vibrate three times then sound |
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| 20:37.56 | ruskie | I would assume it sends a play this sound notification as well |
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| 20:38.09 | steve___ | going further two quick vibrates vs a normal vibrate. |
| 20:38.17 | ruskie | anyway... don't really care |
| 20:38.31 | Venemo | steve___: modest is open source, feel free to improve it in the ways you want |
| 20:38.40 | steve___ | But I'm sure this has all been said before, I was just wondering if there was anything out there. |
| 20:39.02 | steve___ | Venemo: No, I completely understand... I'm in no way complaining. |
| 20:39.17 | BCMM | ZogG: what's "desperated"? |
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| 20:40.01 | ZogG | BCMM like wives in TV show |
| 20:40.03 | piggz | pcsuite mode on windows allows browsing files doesnt it? is that possible on linux? i dont want to use mass storage mode becuase im tethering off it over usb |
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| 20:40.33 | BCMM | piggz: if you've already got a network connection to it, why not use SFTP? |
| 20:40.45 | BCMM | piggz: if you already have an SSH daemon running, that is |
| 20:40.59 | jacekowski | ssh is slower |
| 20:41.02 | BCMM | if you use KDE or Gnome, your file manager will accept sftp://user@n900/ as a URL |
| 20:41.08 | piggz | BCMM: good point... |
| 20:41.27 | BCMM | where n900 is your n900's hostname or ip, ofc |
| 20:41.32 | piggz | yeah, thats how i get stuff to and from my maemo virtual machine |
| 20:41.37 | BCMM | mine's in /etc/hosts |
| 20:41.45 | BCMM | i can't remember when i last used mass storage |
| 20:42.01 | jacekowski | try to copy movie over ssh |
| 20:42.08 | _0x47 | hi! I just tried to do the update on http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/60704 and realized the .deb file is gone. Anyone know if this still works and where I may get the .deb file? |
| 20:42.37 | BCMM | i only use it for putting films on the n900 to watch with TV-out, or copying raw photos off it - anything else is quick enough over sftp to make it not worth plugging it in |
| 20:42.39 | jacekowski | _0x47: that's way out of date |
| 20:42.50 | jacekowski | _0x47: problem is gone |
| 20:42.56 | jacekowski | _0x47: because pr 1.3 is released |
| 20:43.36 | jacekowski | _0x47: and http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/ |
| 20:44.06 | _0x47 | jacekowski: oh lol, i was gone for too long |
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| 20:53.59 | achipa | my brain hurts. who names their method as MaemoPackageCreationStep::addWorkaroundForHarmattanBug, anyway ? |
| 20:54.07 | _0x47 | jacekowski: thanks, btw :) |
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| 21:01.02 | _0x47 | jacekowski: I'm a bit confused from the devkit thing. I guess I'm supposed to install the .deb file to my "host" as I get "permission denied" in the scratchbox (after /scratchbox/login). So, dpkg -c showed me it will install into ./scratchbox/... (note the leading ./) |
| 21:01.17 | _0x47 | does that mean I have to run in from / to make it got to /scratchbox? |
| 21:01.27 | _0x47 | or manually copy it's contents to /scratchbox? |
| 21:02.42 | jacekowski | i never tried installing it like that |
| 21:02.55 | jacekowski | but as far as i remember dpkg changes working dir to / anyways |
| 21:05.39 | _0x47 | oh, then it should be fine, thanks |
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| 21:12.55 | piggz | im my qt maemo app....buttons appear with a gradient....but, assuming the colorrole of one of the colors is Qt::Button, what is the other? ive tried light, midligh, mid and dark, but none look right |
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| 21:27.49 | ZogG | pupnik, hey |
| 21:27.50 | ZogG | sup |
| 21:28.00 | ZogG | MohammadAG, ping |
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| 21:28.26 | MohammadAG | pong |
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| 21:32.20 | divan | piggz, try to ask on #qt |
| 21:33.19 | piggz | divan: i did, no answer...so...i did it myself, by taking the color, converting it to hsv, and adding to the v component to make it slightly lighter :) |
| 21:33.36 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@178-190-9-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 21:35.26 | divan | piggz, maybe you know how to make Qt buttons look like default Hildon buttons? (without gradient and blue border). Of course, I can do it with stylesheet, but I guess there is some more 'native' method without guesswork. |
| 21:37.13 | piggz | divan: my qt buttons look very much like hildon buttons...tho im using plastik dark black theme, so maybe that makes a difference |
| 21:37.54 | pupnik | ZogG: what's heppininin |
| 21:38.26 | ZogG | MohammadAG can you please try to build something for me for maemo? |
| 21:38.44 | ZogG | pupnik, nothing, do you use xmms2 on maemo? |
| 21:38.56 | pupnik | i didedid! |
| 21:39.11 | pupnik | long time ago at least |
| 21:39.15 | ZogG | it's wierd nicolai is using gtk for developing =) |
| 21:39.26 | MohammadAG | no, it's not :) |
| 21:39.43 | MohammadAG | Gtk is faster than Qt (at least for startup) |
| 21:39.55 | jacekowski | it's not |
| 21:40.03 | jacekowski | it's just a fact that gtk is already loaded into memory |
| 21:40.07 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 21:40.08 | jacekowski | but if you load them from nothing |
| 21:40.14 | jacekowski | qt will be faster |
| 21:40.22 | MohammadAG | should've made myself clear |
| 21:40.26 | MohammadAG | Gtk is faster than Qt (at least for startup), on Maemo 5 |
| 21:40.48 | MohammadAG | the only thing I've seen launcher faster, even on Maemo 5, is my media player rewrite |
| 21:40.56 | MohammadAG | the UI shows up faster than Nokia's one |
| 21:41.02 | KaffeeJunky123 | wow |
| 21:41.06 | KaffeeJunky123 | that's pretty fast |
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| 21:41.17 | MohammadAG | I'd say Nokia's UI is slow :P |
| 21:41.32 | KaffeeJunky123 | compared to what? |
| 21:41.38 | MohammadAG | to my rewrite |
| 21:41.42 | KaffeeJunky123 | duh |
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| 21:41.51 | merlin1991 | if I recompile a desktop widget, how would I go about loading the new one without rebooting? |
| 21:41.59 | lcuk | MohammadAG, your code is green. |
| 21:42.07 | MohammadAG | merlin1991, open the .desktop file, save it, close it |
| 21:42.09 | lcuk | all new code is faster than the system standard |
| 21:42.13 | MohammadAG | actually, you just need to save it |
| 21:42.14 | BCMM | MohammadAG: tested with another Qt application already running? |
| 21:42.15 | lcuk | see fapman vs ham |
| 21:42.26 | MohammadAG | lcuk, HAM is threaded, it's epically fast on a PC |
| 21:42.31 | lcuk | once fapman gets all hte checks and balances in etc |
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| 21:42.39 | lcuk | MohammadAG, yes :) |
| 21:42.43 | BCMM | part of the reason GTK applications start faster could be that GTK is loaded at boot, but Qt is very likely not loaded already |
| 21:42.44 | lcuk | but a pc is not an n900 |
| 21:42.49 | MohammadAG | true |
| 21:43.04 | MohammadAG | I wish Qt would be loaded into memory |
| 21:43.27 | ZogG | MohammadAG does he made mediaplayer as well? |
| 21:43.28 | divan | readahead can preload it |
| 21:43.38 | jacekowski | but it will be quickly replaced |
| 21:43.41 | MohammadAG | ZogG, no, I said _my_ rewrite for a reason |
| 21:43.43 | DocScrutinizer | FASTER CODE!! |
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| 21:43.58 | MohammadAG | he did make the Mafw wrappers though |
| 21:44.01 | KaffeeJunky123 | what's it written in? |
| 21:44.02 | KaffeeJunky123 | C? |
| 21:44.05 | MohammadAG | Qt |
| 21:44.12 | MohammadAG | i.e C++ |
| 21:44.30 | MohammadAG | some may argue that Qt is not C++, anyway... |
| 21:44.34 | *** part/#maemo thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
| 21:45.01 | BCMM | Qt apps don't *have* to be written in C++... |
| 21:45.07 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 21:45.15 | MohammadAG | They can be written in PyQt |
| 21:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | for Qt preload check out KDE |
| 21:45.15 | BCMM | but saying that a native c++ Qt app is not really C++ is a little silly, imho |
| 21:45.29 | lcuk | BCMM, but accessing the API using anything other than C++ compiler is troublesome |
| 21:45.42 | DocScrutinizer | wonders idly if maemo/meego will adopt such scheme |
| 21:45.44 | MohammadAG | I left PyQt, it's too slow |
| 21:45.44 | lcuk | BCMM, there are many documented writeups about Qt |
| 21:45.49 | BCMM | lcuk: i wouldn't know; never used any of the bindings |
| 21:45.51 | piggz_ | MohammadAG: some may argue, but i bet they'd be wrong ;) |
| 21:45.54 | lcuk | since it uses the MOC stuff |
| 21:45.58 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I think MeeGo does it |
| 21:46.07 | BCMM | but there seem to be plenty of perfectly good KDE plasmoids in python |
| 21:46.39 | BCMM | yes, there is clever moc stuff and so on, but in the end you can call other C++ APIs perfectly normally from a Qt application, and so on |
| 21:46.40 | MohammadAG | I wonder if Qt preload can be hacked in |
| 21:46.45 | ZogG | MohammadAG yeah i know about your rewrite but faster than nicolai's what than? |
| 21:46.51 | *** join/#maemo jjo (jjo@kapsi.fi) |
| 21:46.58 | MohammadAG | ZogG, I said Nokia's, not nicolai's |
| 21:47.02 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: seeing meamo doing same thing via maemolaucnher |
| 21:47.10 | DocScrutinizer | for GTK? |
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| 21:47.27 | MohammadAG | ah, so that's what maemo-launcher does? |
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| 21:47.33 | BCMM | MohammadAG: of course, if nothing else worked you could just have a Qt application run and instantly quit on startup... |
| 21:47.46 | ZogG | MohammadAG oh |
| 21:47.48 | MohammadAG | that's... it? |
| 21:47.58 | ZogG | now it makes sence |
| 21:48.02 | MohammadAG | doesn't it have to stay in memory? |
| 21:48.08 | DocScrutinizer | err /usr/bin/maemo-invoker |
| 21:48.10 | ZogG | i'll ask Nokia or Nicolai to change the name |
| 21:48.19 | DocScrutinizer | I'd guess yes, that'S what it does |
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| 21:48.22 | MohammadAG | don't bother, NokSoft :P |
| 21:48.35 | ZogG | MsNokla |
| 21:49.03 | MohammadAG | BCMM, if a Qt is already running, then it sure as hell beats the stock mediaplayer |
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| 21:49.40 | BCMM | MohammadAG: clearly, the best way for you to improve your media player would be to port H-D to Qt. :) |
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| 21:50.00 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: start mediaplayer from a `LDPRELOAD=qtfoo,qtbar xterm` |
| 21:50.25 | MohammadAG | what goes in place of qtfoo? :P |
| 21:50.36 | DocScrutinizer | your QT libs.so |
| 21:50.41 | MohammadAG | ah |
| 21:50.53 | BCMM | i was thinking that preloading is a total waste of resources, but it actually wouldn't be if it was an optional thing that you install if use have a lot of Qt applications |
| 21:51.17 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 21:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | so xterm has a link to those libs and loaded them, and (I hope) any child of xterm will inherit |
| 21:51.24 | MohammadAG | for one app, it's obviously a waste |
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| 21:51.32 | BCMM | i'd certainly love to be able to launch FCamera faster; it starts slow enough to permit things to run away |
| 21:52.31 | BCMM | at the stupidest level, it could be a very minimal Qt application that runs in the background and does nothing |
| 21:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sure, but that'S not how /usr/bin/maemo-invoker works |
| 21:53.09 | MohammadAG | 2s till the UI shows |
| 21:53.25 | MohammadAG | Nokia's takes 4s |
| 21:53.31 | MohammadAG | and uses maemo-launcher :) |
| 21:53.57 | andre__ | bergie: that was an interesting blogpost! thank you! :) |
| 21:55.10 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: well, wait with bragging til your MP is feature-complete |
| 21:55.16 | RST38h | Controlling your bladder makes you better at controlling yourself when making decisions about your future, too, according to a study to be published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science. |
| 21:55.20 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@2.95.9.141) |
| 21:55.33 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it already lists songs and videos at startup |
| 21:55.50 | MohammadAG | something the stock player doesn't do (it only lists them when you click Songs or Videos) |
| 21:56.22 | MohammadAG | and Mafw is DBus-based, all calls are based on signals and so shouldn't block the UI |
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| 21:56.53 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, still genuine MP might "preload" aka initialize objects for subscreens, so you as well have to check how fast yours is for e.g. switching to audioplayer or videoplayer, compared to original |
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| 21:57.06 | MohammadAG | well, true that |
| 21:57.19 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure how to implement the video player part, never worked with video |
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| 22:24.02 | DocScrutinizer | anyway tell me when it learned to display current playlist, and to list videos as textlist with full title rather than thumbnails of random scenes out of the video |
| 22:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | I'm eager to give it a real test |
| 22:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | uh, and search of course |
| 22:25.42 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 22:25.56 | DocScrutinizer | preferrably file hirarchy view |
| 22:27.04 | DocScrutinizer | I'm quite capable of moving my mp3 to the right subdirectory, and I don't want to lose that info introduced by that sorting work |
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| 22:28.06 | MohammadAG | if only someone with gstreamer skills could modify mafw-gst-renderer to include gapless playback |
| 22:28.16 | MohammadAG | I'll try to work on the mediaplayer in the morning |
| 22:31.39 | Corsac | MohammadAG: that'd be really sweet yes |
| 22:36.01 | DocScrutinizer | gapless mafw-gst-renderer(whatever that is) isn't a patch or tweak, but a mayor redesign, for all I know |
| 22:37.12 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it's a patch |
| 22:37.17 | DocScrutinizer | aiui the whole concept of gstreamer is basing on one pipe setup per file to playback |
| 22:37.21 | MohammadAG | Nokia's using playbin2 |
| 22:37.26 | MohammadAG | in mafw |
| 22:37.36 | MohammadAG | playbin2 somehow supports gapless playback |
| 22:37.56 | *** join/#maemo piggz_ (~piggz@nat79.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 22:37.59 | MohammadAG | so we need to listen to the about-to-finish signal and pass the next item to the sink |
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| 22:38.28 | DocScrutinizer | umm |
| 22:39.11 | MohammadAG | next item would be currentItem()+1 from the currently assigned playlist |
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| 22:42.14 | DocScrutinizer | if it wasn't *that* boring to me, I'd check the PIDs of all the processes involved in playback of a song, then see if they change for next song, I.E. if any of those processes terminates when the current song is finished |
| 22:42.51 | DocScrutinizer | obviously starting a new process means there's a massive obstacle for clickfree gapless |
| 22:43.00 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 22:43.11 | MohammadAG | and a massive laziness while coding |
| 22:43.30 | MohammadAG | ideally, mafw should use one sink for all |
| 22:43.42 | MohammadAG | well, a sink for audio and a sink for video |
| 22:44.13 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but that's not what the gstreamer concept looks alike, for all I've seen about it |
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| 23:05.18 | DocScrutinizer | actually htop with [x]show threads, [x]different color for threads, F5(tree) is rather nice to watch abominations like 1 main and 7 hidden threads for PA, while NOT playing any audio |
| 23:09.09 | DocScrutinizer | well /usr/sbin/browserd -s 3327 -n RTComMessagingS isn't any better :-D, 1 main and 6 hidden, /usr/sbin/browserd -d even 2 visible childs and sigma 12 child threads |
| 23:09.28 | jacekowski | these are pthreads |
| 23:09.35 | DocScrutinizer | yo |
| 23:09.35 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@Maemo/community/webmaster/X-Fade) |
| 23:09.38 | jacekowski | otherwise called light treads |
| 23:09.46 | internetishard | can anyone get soundcloud.com to work on their n900? |
| 23:09.59 | jacekowski | not anything to be too worried about |
| 23:10.07 | jacekowski | pa itself is a problem |
| 23:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | yoh |
| 23:11.06 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@75-149-169-190-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 23:11.12 | DocScrutinizer | well, actually pthreads aren't especially greedy or hogging |
| 23:12.29 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, just interesting, and if I could be arsed to lift it and move it over to N900 to playback some songs via mediaplayer, this htop display would probably tell us some interesting story |
| 23:15.52 | *** join/#maemo eijk_ (~eijk@e178192000.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 23:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | well, /usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-renderer 10..14% CPU, /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority 19..25% |
| 23:18.02 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
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| 23:24.12 | DocScrutinizer | all threads together it's more like 14..19% and 25..35% |
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| 23:27.24 | DocScrutinizer | @250Mhz (95.8%) though |
| 23:27.38 | _0x47 | anyone here who could give me a hint on SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE? |
| 23:28.19 | _0x47 | !rape DocScrutinizer |
| 23:28.27 | _0x47 | ~rape DocScrutinizer |
| 23:28.27 | infobot | ACTION takes DocScrutinizer behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams |
| 23:28.31 | _0x47 | haha |
| 23:29.47 | _0x47 | well nn then |
| 23:30.51 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-31-194.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:31.04 | Spydemon | hello all ;-) |
| 23:31.38 | Spydemon | is Maemo only use by the N900 smartphone ? |
| 23:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 23:31.50 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 23:31.52 | DocScrutinizer | well |
| 23:32.15 | DocScrutinizer | it's also used by N8x0 tablets |
| 23:32.26 | DocScrutinizer | which aren't exactly smartphones |
| 23:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | an older version of maemo though |
| 23:32.57 | javispedro | 770! |
| 23:33.27 | Spydemon | ok i don't know this tablets ^^ |
| 23:34.51 | Venemo | Spydemon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N810 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770 |
| 23:35.13 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I was saucy to ignore 770 :-P |
| 23:35.56 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N950 |
| 23:35.57 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 23:36.00 | DocScrutinizer | as I'm not even sure if those ran maemo X-D |
| 23:36.04 | SpeedEvil | ponders lullage. |
| 23:36.07 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 23:36.41 | DocScrutinizer | Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name - MEH |
| 23:39.15 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: yes, 770 ran Maemo |
| 23:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | thought it's been SCO unix or sth ;-P |
| 23:40.34 | DocScrutinizer | minix |
| 23:41.38 | Spydemon | i'm interested in the N900 buying, principally for Maemo, but i have understand that his developpement is more and more slower |
| 23:42.07 | Spydemon | it's the same about his community ? ^^ |
| 23:42.07 | DocScrutinizer | Ultrix-11 |
| 23:42.08 | javispedro | bs, he's growing moustache every day |
| 23:43.07 | *** join/#maemo sid_ (~sid@nrbg-4dbe1c8e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 23:44.40 | DocScrutinizer | Spydemon: it's not getting slower, it matures |
| 23:44.45 | javispedro | seems that our little friend abill_uk got tired of pestering in the omap "swap in upgrade" thread and now wants wp7 on his non-upgraded n900. |
| 23:45.01 | SpeedEvil | swap in upgrade? |
| 23:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | mehehe |
| 23:45.15 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@adsl.n-mi.info) |
| 23:45.15 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 23:45.20 | DocScrutinizer | omap3640 |
| 23:45.21 | SpeedEvil | Oh - upgrading the omap? |
| 23:45.43 | SpeedEvil | You can in principle upgrade to the faster speed grade of the current processor. |
| 23:45.55 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:45.58 | SpeedEvil | But I really doubt the 36 would be pin compatibl |
| 23:46.01 | DocScrutinizer | with a pile of 3 512MB POPs |
| 23:46.21 | javispedro | oh, come to think of it |
| 23:46.31 | javispedro | there's actually a newer speed grade of the current processor -- the omap3440 |
| 23:46.38 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 23:46.42 | SpeedEvil | 720MHz? |
| 23:46.51 | DocScrutinizer | WOOOOOW¡ |
| 23:46.58 | javispedro | checks |
| 23:47.05 | SpeedEvil | oh - 800 |
| 23:47.06 | javispedro | wikipedia says 800Mhz |
| 23:47.19 | DocScrutinizer | WOOOooooooOOOOOOOOooooooOOOOoooooOOoOooooooOOW¡ |
| 23:47.39 | javispedro | BRING IN ABILL_UK -- I NEED HIS MAD COW SKILLS! |
| 23:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | cackles |
| 23:49.15 | DocScrutinizer | ow if it turned out new N900 are equipped with 3440 just for the availability of chips, that'd be news |
| 23:49.20 | DocScrutinizer | Now* |
| 23:49.33 | DocScrutinizer | alas I think there are no new N900 |
| 23:49.39 | javispedro | :( |
| 23:49.40 | SpeedEvil | It's called the n950 :) |
| 23:50.07 | kerio | omfg |
| 23:51.36 | javispedro | I want my omap5! |
| 23:51.47 | javispedro | 4 ARM cores, dual-channel DDR3 |
| 23:53.00 | SpeedEvil | Assymetric multicore would be realy interesting. |
| 23:53.20 | jacekowski | well, omap is pretty much that |
| 23:53.42 | SpeedEvil | I mean assumetric multicore, with them binary compatible. |
| 23:53.52 | SpeedEvil | Say a core tuned for low power. |
| 23:53.58 | Spydemon | I'll certainly buy a N900 soon, so i would may be join you in the Maemo community :-) |
| 23:54.35 | jacekowski | Spydemon: it's dying community |
| 23:54.39 | SpeedEvil | Or with soft instructions that gcc doesn't use. |
| 23:54.43 | DocScrutinizer | could we change that "don't use /usr/share/applications/hildon" ticket to a comprehensive "fix your .desktop sh*t, Nokia!"? Comment: Don't use hildon subdir, don't use version=57.1337 as 1.0 is the only valid value, don't use name=tana_fi_foo_bar_micmacmucx style getttext.po shit in .desktop and stick to freedesktop L10n |
| 23:54.50 | jacekowski | Spydemon: wait until everything clarifies |
| 23:54.51 | divan | going to buy second N900 ) |
| 23:54.58 | jacekowski | Spydemon: like for example n950 is release |
| 23:55.01 | jacekowski | released* |
| 23:55.36 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: woot? |
| 23:55.46 | jacekowski | i'm pretty sure normal l10n was working as well |
| 23:56.48 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: one cmd to explain it all: less /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop |
| 23:57.28 | Spydemon | jacekowski, N950 seems to look uglier than N900 :-( |
| 23:57.54 | divan | Spydemon, nobody saw N950. |
| 23:58.21 | Spydemon | so pictures on Internet are fake, okok |
| 23:58.36 | divan | The photos in internet articles are author's assumptions based on some Nokia leakes prototype pictures. |
| 23:58.48 | jacekowski | Spydemon: n900 is not manufactured anymore |
| 23:58.51 | jacekowski | Spydemon: not supported |
| 23:58.53 | divan | s/leakes/leaked/ |
| 23:59.23 | jacekowski | Spydemon: and without nokia support platform will die in couple months |