| 00:01.12 | TiagoTiago | Is there anything i can do when a program got text fields and other GUI elements only a few pixels tall? |
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| 00:02.48 | lcukn900 | tiagotiago, squint. file a bug with the dev |
| 00:03.29 | TiagoTiago | this one is written in python if that makes a difference |
| 00:03.57 | TiagoTiago | the program isn't made with the N900 in mind |
| 00:05.23 | jhanely | It might be caused by a DPI setting or something. Not sure what you can do to fix it. |
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| 00:11.01 | TiagoTiago | http://sourceforge.net/projects/spyrit/ <- it's this one i'm having issues with right now |
| 00:12.56 | TiagoTiago | it seems it does use QT... |
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| 01:03.06 | SpeedEvil | Anyone heard of possiilities to change the IMEI? (For good, honestly) |
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| 01:06.24 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: tell me if you find one |
| 01:08.17 | TiagoTiago | what's that keyboard shortcut that forces a program into portrait mode? |
| 01:08.51 | SpeedEvil | xrandr -o left ? |
| 01:09.50 | TiagoTiago | It was some key combo in the physical keyboard of the N900 |
| 01:17.21 | SpeedEvil | ('for good' = I want to get a smashed blackberry, and clone the IMEI, and use a 'blackberry only' plan |
| 01:19.39 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik: time for some cuticle care. :P |
| 01:20.44 | pupnik | everybody says that |
| 01:21.08 | pupnik | it's a freakin microscopic macro |
| 01:21.21 | pupnik | i've been told to 'use hand lotion' |
| 01:22.05 | pupnik | GeneralAntilles: did you see DocScrutinizer's n810 speaker pics? |
| 01:22.32 | pupnik | it explains well why the n810 has such great sound - the resonant chamber is large enough to magnify midrange frequencies |
| 01:22.54 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: IMEI is living in a config area in cmt flash, it can't be accessed without communicating to cmt OS |
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| 01:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | ergo you can change it if you know what to tell cmt OS to change the setting for you |
| 01:25.06 | DocScrutinizer | calypso has a secret AT cmd for changing the IMEI, which is protected by crypto measures |
| 01:26.31 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if BB5 has a secret cmd, or you need a image of the config area with correct signature, to flash that similar to the way you flash the cmt OS itself |
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| 01:31.59 | DocScrutinizer | in theory you could change the flash content via JTAG access, if there's JTAG available for that. But still you need to know what exactly to change, and odds are the complete config page in flash is checksummed |
| 01:34.58 | ShadowJK | Nokia gave me a certificate that my device's IMEI has changed when they gave me a replacement device. I wonder if they consider changing the imei as not possible |
| 01:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | errrr, how's that related? I guess the IMEI change cert is to prove you've not done any fraud |
| 01:38.25 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik: yes, use hand lotion. *g* |
| 01:38.28 | GeneralAntilles | Great picture, though. |
| 01:38.55 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik: add some information to the description |
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| 01:42.25 | ShadowJK | Well I mean I'd rather they'd moved the imei to the replacement |
| 01:42.37 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Thought so. |
| 01:43.06 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Interesting. |
| 01:43.41 | ShadowJK | Because if they changed imei, I'd get angry birds back |
| 01:43.42 | TiagoTiago | is there a way to force a program to go fullscreen (loose the title bar and use the full vertical span of the screen) ? |
| 01:46.21 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: setting IMEI is a well kept secret algo in fab calibration software, it's not available at repair desk |
| 01:49.04 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: even if you can't change IMEI, you could always (theoretically) send something else in place of it |
| 01:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I guess the method/function to ask for IMEI can be patched to fake any arbitrary one |
| 01:52.06 | DocScrutinizer | so, while OTA is using correct IMEI, the APE is seeing whatever you want it to see |
| 01:53.08 | DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest to check/monitor dbus and pnatd invocation |
| 01:53.56 | DocScrutinizer | and check if angry birds maybe is linked against libisi or siblings directly |
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| 01:54.57 | TiagoTiago | is there a way to force a program to go fullscreen (loose the title bar and use the full vertical span of the screen) ? |
| 01:55.11 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 01:55.30 | TiagoTiago | how can i do it? |
| 01:55.40 | DocScrutinizer | you can see ovi-maps doing that (and I haze it) |
| 01:55.45 | DocScrutinizer | hate* |
| 01:55.59 | DocScrutinizer | xterm does as well |
| 01:56.10 | DocScrutinizer | xchat does |
| 01:56.14 | TiagoTiago | No, i mean, force a program that doesn't got that function builtin |
| 01:56.27 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 01:57.06 | DocScrutinizer | alas hildon has no generic window-property-settings |
| 01:57.17 | DocScrutinizer | like KDE for example has |
| 01:57.51 | TiagoTiago | It sounds like the type of thing that would be done by running a terminal command after the program is launched, or by using an special launcher program |
| 01:58.05 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 01:59.23 | DocScrutinizer | but then, what's going to happen to the program's menu (if there's any)? |
| 01:59.50 | TiagoTiago | would become innacessible while it is fullscreen |
| 02:03.22 | pupnik | thanks GeneralAntilles |
| 02:03.51 | pupnik | i would like to take pics of products... it's not hard |
| 02:04.15 | pupnik | you just make sure that the basic lighting is ok, and things are sharp |
| 02:04.26 | pupnik | if you want to get fancy, do a little 'composition' |
| 02:05.21 | pupnik | when things work out really well, like that pic, the beauty of the object just shines through |
| 02:05.38 | pupnik | when i realized how the speaker works, i was like beautiful... |
| 02:05.44 | nox- | which pic? :) |
| 02:05.58 | pupnik | the n900 speaker pic |
| 02:06.19 | pupnik | http://i.imgur.com/9VbG6.jpg |
| 02:06.30 | nox- | ah |
| 02:06.48 | pupnik | you can see the reflections of the copper on the baffling |
| 02:07.14 | pupnik | and the contrast range between front to back turned out perfect |
| 02:07.20 | pupnik | no photoshop/gimp needed |
| 02:07.27 | nox- | baffling? |
| 02:07.40 | TiagoTiago | Do you know if the tech requirements and the shape of the speaker modules match the ones on any other Nokia device? |
| 02:07.41 | pupnik | the flexible portion |
| 02:07.58 | pupnik | TiagoTiago: there is a supplier that claims compatible modules |
| 02:08.05 | pupnik | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70322 |
| 02:08.28 | TiagoTiago | Are theirs any better than the factory ones? |
| 02:09.45 | pupnik | i don't know |
| 02:10.13 | pupnik | making soundwaves requires space |
| 02:10.41 | TiagoTiago | you mean for the speaker "cone" to move? |
| 02:10.44 | pupnik | i'm just building my own desktop planar speakers |
| 02:10.58 | pupnik | no for the speaker cone to create a sound pressure wave |
| 02:11.15 | pupnik | if you set such a speaker out in the open air, it is almost inaudible |
| 02:11.45 | TiagoTiago | if you only move a very small bit, but do it very fast, isn't it the same as moving a bigger distance slower? |
| 02:12.04 | pupnik | i don't think i can explain speakers in irc |
| 02:12.10 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 02:12.13 | nox- | :) |
| 02:12.27 | TiagoTiago | don't know the words for the concepts? |
| 02:12.40 | pupnik | i have a few books on the concepts |
| 02:12.58 | pupnik | let me compress them |
| 02:13.01 | pupnik | 1381370183750387183057831 |
| 02:13.02 | pupnik | there you go |
| 02:13.09 | TiagoTiago | lol |
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| 02:13.46 | TiagoTiago | is that the IBDN or whatever, the code of the book? |
| 02:13.49 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: broadly - no. If you move a little bit very fast, you have a very short time of total movement. This means a high pitch |
| 02:14.05 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: So you can output high frequencies well. But not low ones |
| 02:14.29 | TiagoTiago | oh, i see |
| 02:14.48 | TiagoTiago | well, what if you use some form of pulse encoding? |
| 02:14.52 | nox- | now has nubert nubox 381 which sound `good enough' for me (but they dont fit in a phone :) |
| 02:15.47 | pupnik | which ones nox- --- |
| 02:15.49 | pupnik | show pix |
| 02:16.08 | nox- | http://www.nubert.de/index.php?action=product&id=2&category=1 |
| 02:16.26 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: A great idea, now how do you redesign your ears to be compatible with it |
| 02:16.43 | pupnik | nice choice nox- - you have taste |
| 02:16.54 | pupnik | i would love to hear them |
| 02:16.59 | nox- | yeha i like them too :) |
| 02:17.16 | TiagoTiago | No need, that is how those open air plasma speakers (like those using giant tesla coils) work |
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| 02:17.36 | nox- | i dont have `golden ears' but i also dont like `bruellwuerfel' :) |
| 02:17.37 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It's really not. |
| 02:17.39 | pupnik | nox-: these were mine, silk dome - good deal http://www.jumbosunshade.com/review/mgr_e2020_1.jpg |
| 02:17.53 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik: need a sharper camera, though. ;) |
| 02:18.06 | TiagoTiago | They don't encode the audio frequency as pulse length or density? |
| 02:18.08 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Also - open air plasma speakers _suck_ for bass too. Due to the same reason - the swept volume is tiny |
| 02:18.22 | pupnik | nox-: now i have these http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=22jeajagkcg4b6ovc247q2okvcmesv37;action=gallery;sa=view;id=12850 |
| 02:18.43 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: No. They heat the air plasma which then heats and cools rapidly, expanding and contracting. |
| 02:18.49 | nox- | looks expensive :) |
| 02:19.13 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: They may use PWM, or some other means of modulating the current - bit this is only to set the average current. |
| 02:19.14 | pupnik | cheap for the sound... |
| 02:19.24 | nox- | hehe |
| 02:19.54 | SpeedEvil | My current audio solution is a thinkpad X61S base. |
| 02:20.07 | SpeedEvil | needs to hook up his amp properly. |
| 02:20.10 | TiagoTiago | I thought they just modulated the thunderclap, and the human ear or brain just blended the individual sudden sounds together |
| 02:20.25 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: not really. |
| 02:20.33 | SpeedEvil | It's pretty much linear |
| 02:20.40 | pupnik | nox-: a german company is the only one in the world making these drivers - hold a sec |
| 02:20.45 | SpeedEvil | More current -> Hotter plasma, larger. |
| 02:21.09 | TiagoTiago | kinda like how gray tones can be made of alternating light and dark lines |
| 02:22.49 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 02:23.30 | TiagoTiago | so you're saying the soundwaves come out curvy instead of being a bunch of spikes close together? |
| 02:24.26 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much |
| 02:24.37 | TiagoTiago | Wow |
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| 02:26.36 | TiagoTiago | Small speakers should still be able to produce square or sawtooth waves at lower frequencies, no? |
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| 02:28.15 | pupnik | no |
| 02:28.30 | TiagoTiago | Since we're talking about speaker designs, tell me what you think about this one i've come up with: |
| 02:28.33 | pupnik | nox-: i got the drivers :)_ http://i.imgur.com/WtpWg.jpg |
| 02:28.58 | SpeedEvil | Broadly, to make sound, you need to make pressure waves. |
| 02:29.04 | pupnik | but brian cheney vastly improved them |
| 02:29.12 | SpeedEvil | This means you need to make air flow. |
| 02:29.24 | pupnik | like a firecracker |
| 02:29.33 | pupnik | ir a fart escaping from a fat lady |
| 02:29.36 | SpeedEvil | To have any low frequencies, you need to move air for a long time |
| 02:29.39 | pupnik | that is sound |
| 02:30.19 | pupnik | you can make some sound with a pin moving back and forth at 20 hz |
| 02:30.24 | pupnik | but nobody can hear it |
| 02:30.27 | TiagoTiago | There are 4 drivers, one on each corner of a single flat sheet (plastic, metal or whatever), about the size of the N900 screen, each can work indenpently for 4ch sound and together for the bassier range |
| 02:30.53 | nox- | pupnik, :) |
| 02:31.05 | SpeedEvil | If you have a limited volume of air you can move - say the .05cm^3 that a n900 speaker can move - you are sharply limited in low frequency response. |
| 02:31.11 | TiagoTiago | What do you think of that idea? |
| 02:31.27 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It dosn't really work well |
| 02:31.41 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It works somewhat better if you put them in the middle |
| 02:31.43 | TiagoTiago | How other Nokia devices manage such a good response in their speakers? |
| 02:31.53 | SpeedEvil | By having more volume in the case. |
| 02:32.08 | pupnik | SpeedEvil is correct |
| 02:32.19 | pupnik | not just in the case, but in the speaker enclosure |
| 02:32.20 | TiagoTiago | so even smaller devices got more unused space inside? |
| 02:32.43 | pupnik | TiagoTiago: why do people build big boxes for speakers? |
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| 02:32.58 | pupnik | why not just wave a sheet in the air? |
| 02:34.08 | TiagoTiago | I used to think it was cause they managed to save energy by taking advantage of the ressonance, but from what i'm being told here it seems you can't bruteforce lower frequencies out of a small speaker... |
| 02:35.11 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much. |
| 02:35.39 | SpeedEvil | It's exactly analogous to water waves |
| 02:35.48 | SpeedEvil | Fill your bath. |
| 02:36.06 | SpeedEvil | Now, it's really easy to slosh it back and forward if you get in and move your body. |
| 02:36.15 | SpeedEvil | It's really hard if you use a pencil. |
| 02:36.17 | TiagoTiago | if you flick a water drop fast enough it will move a lot of water when it hits more water |
| 02:36.55 | SpeedEvil | 'flicking really hard' causes distortion though. |
| 02:37.03 | TiagoTiago | the mass-speed equivalency thing |
| 02:37.13 | TiagoTiago | I see |
| 02:39.21 | pupnik | nice analogy SpeedEvil - pencil / tub |
| 02:39.40 | pupnik | i bet you can make 0.5hz waves with the pencil, but nobody can see them |
| 02:41.27 | TiagoTiago | But if the tub ressonates at half a hertz eventually the waves might build up |
| 02:42.12 | TiagoTiago | But you can't make it instantaneouslly, if you move the pencil too fast the water cavitates |
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| 02:46.42 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: and for sure you can make 1000Hz waves with your whole body, but I bet that hurts ;-) |
| 02:47.06 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 02:48.09 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: the last thing you want on a speaker are resonances |
| 02:50.06 | DocScrutinizer | actually the box volume of a bas reflex speaker (sealed enclosure type) is carefully tuned with the "spring force" and mass of the speaker cone, to eliminate the resonance frequence of the speakerdriver alone aka free-air |
| 02:50.17 | TiagoTiago | I thought the speakers were made with big wooden boxes exactly for resonance... |
| 02:51.00 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, exactly for eliminating one resonence with another identical one, to use a simplified explanation |
| 02:51.04 | TiagoTiago | Same thing for that highend speaker that got a nautilus shell for the woofer |
| 02:51.37 | TiagoTiago | I thought it was to amplify certain frequency ranges for "free" |
| 02:51.52 | DocScrutinizer | au contraire |
| 02:53.39 | DocScrutinizer | but, as pupnik said, it's really not possible to explain the whole complex topic of speaker operation princibles and physics here in IRC |
| 02:54.10 | DocScrutinizer | not even a single flavor of them |
| 02:54.25 | DocScrutinizer | not to start with horns and transmission lines |
| 02:54.34 | TiagoTiago | I'm understanding everything so far |
| 02:55.11 | DocScrutinizer | the basic problem is: bass is "louder" than treble |
| 02:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. you have to move a lot more air, and also need higer presures, while a treble sound has all it's energy in velocity |
| 02:56.12 | DocScrutinizer | like plue light is more aggressive than red |
| 02:56.16 | DocScrutinizer | blue* |
| 02:57.24 | DocScrutinizer | that's why you always got huge bass speakers and tiny tweeter domes |
| 02:59.24 | DocScrutinizer | an engine with 5L has same power like an engine with 0.1L, if you run the small engine at 50 time the RPM |
| 02:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | (well, not really, but it's quite intuitive) |
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| 03:09.41 | TiagoTiago | Is there a way i can make the hardware keyboard modifier keys (shift and Fn) work inside a Tcl program the way they work in hildonized programs? |
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| 03:17.40 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: and the n810 was still amazing |
| 03:18.00 | pupnik | whatever balance of components they had there,.... it was maybe the best i've heard |
| 03:19.30 | pupnik | there is a psychoacoustic phenomenon where the ear 'extrapolates' frequencies down |
| 03:20.08 | pupnik | it hears overtones occuring at a higher frequency, pulse modulated, and it re-creates the bass tone "belonging" to it |
| 03:20.30 | pupnik | that also apples to high frequencies 'extending' to mids |
| 03:20.33 | pupnik | if done right |
| 03:20.35 | pupnik | it's an art |
| 03:21.25 | pupnik | in fact it's the reason why kids think they are hearing music from these tweeters in cell phones |
| 03:22.51 | nox- | oh yeah thats what those tiny bose speakers do i suppose? |
| 03:23.32 | pupnik | hm |
| 03:23.50 | pupnik | i think you are thinking of their waveguides |
| 03:23.53 | nox- | maybe |
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| 03:24.00 | pupnik | the miniature bose radio |
| 03:24.03 | nox- | yeah |
| 03:24.19 | pupnik | i haven't studied that |
| 03:24.28 | nox- | not just a speaker by itself ofc |
| 03:24.37 | nox- | speaker + amp |
| 03:24.59 | pupnik | i think the bose soundwave is a 'transmission line' speaker |
| 03:25.01 | pupnik | iirc |
| 03:25.27 | pupnik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_transmission_line |
| 03:26.26 | nox- | hm the radio does that too? |
| 03:26.48 | pupnik | vague memory, i thought it did |
| 03:27.01 | nox- | ah ok, interesting |
| 03:27.35 | pupnik | for hi-fi snobs it is crap |
| 03:27.38 | nox- | yep |
| 03:28.29 | pupnik | http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/155755/science-behind-the-bose-wave-radio |
| 03:28.52 | pupnik | weee, i was right |
| 03:29.31 | nox- | hehe nice |
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| 03:32.54 | nox- | you read german right? then this might also be interesting: http://www.nubert.de/index.php?id=59&PHPSESSID=c4481d7d5ffc071f2f152268087fba1d |
| 03:33.05 | nox- | that pdf on there |
| 03:33.26 | pupnik | many of my friends liked nubert |
| 03:33.35 | nox- | hehe |
| 03:33.37 | pupnik | yours have silk/soft dome? |
| 03:33.52 | pupnik | i like those better than metal |
| 03:34.21 | nox- | http://www.nubert.de/images/products/nubox/nubox-381_schwarz_ohne_blende.jpg?PHPSESSID=b2e53594433b16227be1e0276b5bb6da |
| 03:34.54 | pupnik | a quality 2-way pair just sounds great |
| 03:35.09 | pupnik | but i could never order online |
| 03:35.19 | pupnik | oh i just got a pair of ebay speakers for 1 euro |
| 03:35.25 | nox- | haha |
| 03:35.35 | pupnik | going to drop the rm8-neo drivers in there and experiment |
| 03:36.07 | pupnik | you should hear vmps or planars sometime |
| 03:36.32 | pupnik | or some infiniti / kappa / wharfedale / vandersteen / magneplan |
| 03:36.45 | pupnik | with the planar drivers |
| 03:37.14 | pupnik | they can have their own problems of course |
| 03:37.41 | pupnik | but they deliver midranges very differently than conic speakers |
| 03:39.29 | pupnik | kind of like switching to an electric car |
| 03:40.31 | pupnik | not always the best solution, but very interesting and completely superior in some ways |
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| 03:41.43 | nox- | hmm |
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| 04:17.53 | nox- | http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/25/6134101-shuttle-launch-witnessed-from-above |
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| 05:48.17 | Sazpaimon | hey N900 owners |
| 05:48.18 | Sazpaimon | http://cgi.ebay.com/NOKIA-N900-UNLOCKED-BLACK-MOBILE-TOUCHSCREEN-PHON-BROKE-/350442914124?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item519806814c |
| 05:48.21 | Sazpaimon | what say you on this |
| 05:48.36 | Sazpaimon | guy says it "shows that its charging but won't power on |
| 05:48.36 | Sazpaimon | " |
| 05:49.02 | Sazpaimon | without any more details than that, what could be its possible cause. If it's something simple like a reflash, I think $170 would be well worth it |
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| 05:54.05 | Sazpaimon | also, if it's something slightly more serious, the nokia store is a train ride away |
| 05:54.37 | Sazpaimon | just curious if it seems like something simple to the experts here |
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| 05:56.53 | DocScrutinizer | quite common FPC defect -> screen black -> http://www.ownta.com/original-nokia-n900-cell-phone-slide-flex-cable-ribbon-with-camera.html |
| 05:58.27 | Sazpaimon | yikes, so i might need to tack on another $50 to this? |
| 05:59.09 | DocScrutinizer | plus service |
| 05:59.24 | Sazpaimon | i'd be better off just sniping a working one then |
| 06:00.30 | DocScrutinizer | I'd say for 170 bucks you get a "working condition, like new" |
| 06:00.51 | Sazpaimon | nope, they usually go for $250 or more |
| 06:01.25 | Sazpaimon | cheapest working one I see is at $180, and that's at 22 bids and ending in 2,5 days |
| 06:02.11 | Sazpaimon | most of the buy it nows are listed at $370 or more |
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| 06:31.12 | RST38h | Man Discovers His Online Girlfriend of 2.5 Years Is FakeAfter Paying Her $200,000 |
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| 06:35.01 | psycho_oreos | scammed because of one's gullibility-ness? |
| 06:38.17 | doc|home | lets be honest, we've all been messed about by a girl one time at one stage or another. She just got away with it for longer than most. |
| 06:39.36 | RST38h | There wasn't any girl to begin with, just a Nigerian scammer. |
| 06:40.02 | doc|home | fair enough, then he's an idiot |
| 06:40.49 | psycho_oreos | indeed |
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| 07:53.40 | Termana | good morning |
| 07:54.38 | Cor-Ai | morning |
| 07:58.11 | divan | morning |
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| 08:12.18 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:13.32 | Cor-Ai | jaffa cree! |
| 08:13.56 | Jaffa | Indeed. |
| 08:14.25 | Cor-Ai | :D |
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| 08:50.25 | slonopotamus | wtf is going on with python on autobuilder? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/subversion_1.6.12dfsg-4maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt |
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| 09:27.54 | pupnik | wow look at all the new apps "_ |
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| 09:31.50 | divan | pupnik, what new apps? |
| 09:32.25 | pugvader | since april, 2010 |
| 09:32.44 | pugvader | much has been done |
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| 09:35.31 | pugvader | pupnik just fixed his N900 |
| 09:35.39 | pupnik | :) |
| 09:36.04 | pupnik | 'twas a paperweight not bootining |
| 09:36.20 | pugvader | and by the power of grayskull... |
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| 09:45.14 | pupnik | oh wow yes rootfs does fill fast |
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| 09:48.18 | pupnik | ugh this terminal hurts my eyes to read |
| 09:48.30 | pupnik | give us a 4-5" screen pls |
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| 09:54.39 | pupnik | uninstalling one app takes > 1 minute? |
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| 10:01.47 | kerio | with HAM? |
| 10:01.52 | kerio | i doubt 1 minute is enough |
| 10:02.39 | pupnik | just trying to install fapman since 1/2 hour |
| 10:03.04 | pupnik | had to relink /var/cache/apt/archives to /opt |
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| 10:03.24 | pupnik | pulling in the 1.3 updates it seems |
| 10:04.21 | slonopotamus | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/subversion_1.6.12dfsg-4maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt any ideas? |
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| 10:06.23 | pupnik | no module named subprocess ... |
| 10:06.57 | slonopotamus | yep. but where it is gone? |
| 10:07.18 | pupnik | i don't know python |
| 10:07.35 | pupnik | is there a module 'subprocess' or is it a spurious error? |
| 10:07.41 | slonopotamus | well, on n900 it is definitely present |
| 10:08.04 | slonopotamus | sends new bunch of curses to scratchbox devs |
| 10:08.32 | pupnik | so happy he fixed water-damaged system board with |
| 10:08.33 | pupnik | alcohol |
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| 10:10.25 | pupnik | slonopotamus: what can you do to resolve this? |
| 10:15.25 | slonopotamus | pupnik: already did. added python to SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE |
| 10:15.40 | slonopotamus | really wants SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=* |
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| 10:23.07 | dm8tbr | pupnik: ah, isopropyl to the rescue :) - did that to a 9300 too recently |
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| 10:41.44 | pupnik | dm8tbr: it's the first time it has actually worked for me |
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| 11:20.22 | pupnik | i wish n900 would setup usb networking on connect to pc |
| 11:21.58 | slonopotamus | pupnik: then you wouldn't be able to plug it into media player and watch videos from mmc |
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| 11:26.02 | trumee | ~ping |
| 11:26.02 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 11:32.17 | pupnik | slonopotamus: well you get the option to do storage mode or pc suite |
| 11:32.23 | pupnik | what is pc suite for anyway |
| 11:32.37 | slonopotamus | no idea |
| 11:33.01 | Metallikettu | For pc-suite mode :) |
| 11:33.30 | Metallikettu | For connecting to pc-suite software (pretty useless anyway) |
| 11:35.28 | pupnik | yeah i never tried it |
| 11:39.57 | FireFly|n900 | To sync calender with Outlook and stuff like that, I think |
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| 11:40.33 | FireFly|n900 | At least that was the case with my old S40 phone |
| 11:41.09 | pupnik | it would be cool to add "Usb Network" to the list of options |
| 11:41.39 | pupnik | so happy after 10 months the n900 is back in business :D |
| 11:41.54 | villager | nokia pc suite also allows you to use the phone as a modem to connect to the internet via gsm/3g |
| 11:42.05 | pupnik | cool villager so it does network |
| 11:42.30 | villager | it can network in pc suite mode yes |
| 11:42.34 | lolcat | Can I use the sixaxis controller as a mouse in easy debian? |
| 11:42.35 | jacekowski | it's if you want to use it as a modem |
| 11:42.43 | jacekowski | or anything else that's not storage mode |
| 11:42.49 | jacekowski | or connect it to pcsuite |
| 11:43.05 | pupnik | the kernel module needs switching modes iirc |
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| 11:43.18 | pupnik | for the usb controller |
| 11:43.26 | jacekowski | well, it could be done with fake usb hub |
| 11:43.32 | OkropNick | jacekowski: hi, can I ask you something using msg? |
| 11:43.34 | jacekowski | so phone could do all modes at once |
| 11:43.46 | jacekowski | OkropNick: what? |
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| 11:43.59 | OkropNick | jacekowski: private question? |
| 11:44.05 | jacekowski | ok |
| 11:53.21 | pupnik | check out "The story of robotron" clips on youtube. awesome |
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| 12:01.44 | MohammadAG | wonders if it'd be possible to iterate over all messages and mark them as read |
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| 12:29.34 | pupnik | so nice to have the best again |
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| 12:30.45 | alterego | Is it possible to get a linux machine with a single wifi card to act as a base station? |
| 12:31.07 | alterego | Ah, looks like it might be. |
| 12:32.09 | alterego | Sweet, this should work quite nicely :D |
| 12:33.49 | brekpoint | you need to configure a radius server for wlan logins |
| 12:34.50 | brekpoint | there is a howto which deskribe the whole process |
| 12:36.51 | brekpoint | search in google for wlan radius linux |
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| 12:43.59 | pupnik | does mlocate/slocate work? |
| 12:44.37 | jacekowski | no need for radius |
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| 12:44.51 | jacekowski | alterego: all you need is a card that can work in STA/master mode |
| 12:44.55 | jacekowski | alterego: and run hostapd |
| 12:45.12 | alterego | jacekowski: yeah, I checked I've got some compatible dongles |
| 12:45.29 | jacekowski | do you want wpa or wep or no? |
| 12:45.59 | alterego | I don't really care about that, wpa 2 psk would be useful but not essential |
| 12:46.07 | jacekowski | ok |
| 12:47.19 | jacekowski | http://pastebin.com/VsBBJL2k |
| 12:47.26 | jacekowski | that's my hostapd config file |
| 12:47.32 | jacekowski | http://pastebin.com/VsBBJL2k |
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| 12:47.36 | jacekowski | wpa_psk_file=/etc/hostapd/wpa_psk |
| 12:47.40 | jacekowski | that file contains single line |
| 12:47.59 | jacekowski | 00:00:00:00:00:00 mynetworkkey |
| 12:48.13 | alterego | Oh, that's great, thanks :) |
| 12:48.15 | jacekowski | you may have to tweak interface names and stuff |
| 12:48.29 | alterego | ~seen javispedro |
| 12:48.34 | infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 3m 32s ago, saying: 'MIPS. sigh.'. |
| 12:48.48 | alterego | Heh |
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| 12:57.41 | RST38h | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W0y_YRdrmFo/TWjvbH_yLYI/AAAAAAAAC2I/QcjsSYsEq6Q/s1600/epic-win-photos-prayer-win.jpg |
| 12:57.49 | villager | alterego: my desktop computer has two primary tasks: wifi base station with hostapd (and NAT), and running boinc... I, too, see no reason why you'd want radius on a home network, since that's for EAP authentication on enterprise networks and stuff |
| 12:57.51 | RST38h | alterego: here? |
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| 13:00.05 | alterego | yeah, what can I do for you RST38h |
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| 13:35.32 | eichi | hello! is there no way to activate and deactivate the virtuell keyboard with one click (shortcut etc). I only need if vor navigation. allways have to go to options is bad. is there a command in command line, i can use for that? |
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| 13:39.42 | eichi | ah okay, it hides, if i open the hardware keyboard, thats nice ;) kay. now problem dosnt matter |
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| 14:10.16 | toadpole | hey could someone help me with flashing my n900? i put the phone off, pressed u, connected the cable, released u, now the nokia logo and a usb icon are on the screen... however, windows 7 was unable to install the driver successfully... should i continue? |
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| 14:11.06 | Venemo | toadpole: many people are experiencing issues on Windows flashing, especially on 64-bit windows |
| 14:11.22 | Venemo | toadpole: I'd suggest you to try a Linux live cd or something |
| 14:11.26 | Venemo | ~flashing |
| 14:11.26 | infobot | i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 14:14.01 | toadpole | wait looks like i have to hold 'u' until it successfully installs the driver |
| 14:14.09 | toadpole | i'm gonna try that |
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| 14:18.06 | toadpole | yup, looks like that worked... thanks, though, Venemo |
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| 14:18.23 | Venemo | okay toadpole, I'm glad :) |
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| 14:20.55 | toadpole | do i flash the EMMC image first or later? |
| 14:23.22 | merlin1991 | toadpole, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 |
| 14:27.29 | toadpole | ( merlin1991 ): suppose i don't flash the FIASCO/rootfs image, what'll i not have? |
| 14:27.57 | merlin1991 | everything |
| 14:28.08 | merlin1991 | emmc is just the mydocs part |
| 14:28.13 | merlin1991 | rootfs is the os |
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| 14:28.38 | toadpole | what's this, then? RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM |
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| 14:30.00 | psycho_oreos | global pr1.3 firmware |
| 14:30.25 | toadpole | the o/s and the firmware are two different things? |
| 14:30.28 | psycho_oreos | you can see the descriptions clearly in the far right of that row |
| 14:31.01 | psycho_oreos | no the OS comes with the firmware, the fiasco part |
| 14:31.23 | toadpole | so if i flash the firmware, i don't need to do the fiasco step? |
| 14:31.56 | psycho_oreos | fiasco is firmware |
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| 14:32.50 | toadpole | so basically RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM is the file i need for the fiasco step here? |
| 14:32.59 | merlin1991 | yes |
| 14:33.27 | toadpole | damn i have so much to learn, sorry bout being an idiot, people... thanks for your help and patience |
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| 14:34.21 | pupnik | is just amazed how awesome n900 feels after not having one for many months |
| 14:34.37 | pupnik | and even with three row keyboard life is ok in the shell |
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| 14:37.05 | toadpole | just one last question, guys... if i first flash the firmware, then the eMMC, that's all i have to do to get it to factory state, right? |
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| 14:39.53 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 14:40.01 | MohammadAG | and change lock code back to 12345 |
| 14:40.08 | MohammadAG | before reflashing |
| 14:40.31 | toadpole | didn't change the lock code so i guess that's okay.. thanks again, all |
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| 14:45.57 | Venemo | good morning MohammadAG :) |
| 14:46.11 | MohammadAG | morning :) |
| 14:49.32 | pupnik | hey MohammadAG i fixed the waterdamaged n900 :D |
| 14:49.37 | pupnik | what a fun device this is |
| 14:51.22 | Venemo | pupnik, how did you do that? |
| 14:52.05 | pupnik | i cleaned it real clean and then squirted ethanol all over the system board then put it in the oven |
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| 14:52.40 | Venemo | and you baked it? |
| 14:52.44 | pupnik | yaha |
| 14:53.15 | pupnik | made a mistake with the temperature control too. i don't want to know how hot it got |
| 14:53.24 | pupnik | :) |
| 14:53.42 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 14:53.52 | MohammadAG | I would've shoved it in rice :) |
| 14:54.06 | pupnik | and waited months? |
| 14:54.47 | MohammadAG | good point, though I'd give up after 48h :P |
| 14:55.19 | pupnik | is there a 'find my stolen n900' app? |
| 14:55.27 | Venemo | yes |
| 14:55.36 | pupnik | cool in the pool |
| 14:55.39 | MohammadAG | I like the iPhone's feature |
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| 14:55.59 | MohammadAG | but it makes me think, if Apple can request location anytime, doesn't that ruin privacy? |
| 14:56.46 | Venemo | yea |
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| 15:01.37 | MohammadAG | or it's push |
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| 15:10.36 | pupnik | i wonder why /var/cache/apt/archives wasn't put on /opt in the first place |
| 15:12.46 | ruskie | pupnik, don't forget the apt metadata |
| 15:12.49 | ruskie | that can get big as well |
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| 15:13.26 | MohammadAG | dpkg* |
| 15:13.28 | MohammadAG | not apt |
| 15:14.09 | frals | is there any legal reason you would want to "*) catch packages of another phones,"? |
| 15:14.13 | frals | goes throu maemo-dev |
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| 15:49.07 | kerio | http://fatpita.net/?i=3585 <- we need a new nokia plan |
| 15:54.50 | toresbe | Where's the joke? |
| 15:55.16 | ZogG | MohammadAG, hey |
| 15:55.21 | kerio | thatsthejoke.jpg |
| 15:55.51 | toresbe | You mean the funny thing is that Nokia used to make shoes? I knew that. |
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| 15:55.53 | DocScrutinizer | toadpole: refresh the http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900, read the full page, most of your questions been answered there |
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| 16:06.56 | luke-jr | is there an app that shares GPS info on XMPP status msg with more frequency? |
| 16:07.17 | luke-jr | ideally with privacy controls to not share location within a defined area |
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| 16:15.15 | villager | kerio: besides... nokiapland.com already covers it, no? |
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| 16:21.48 | ZogG | we should invite graf_choloko to maemo devs =) |
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| 16:32.49 | RST38h | http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Nokia-and-open-source-a-trial-by-fire-1194928.html |
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| 16:47.05 | alterego | That's a popular link today. |
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| 17:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | that's also a quite well written article |
| 17:39.46 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 17:39.59 | DocScrutinizer | and seriously to the point |
| 17:42.52 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
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| 17:45.40 | SpeedEvil | I wrote a page or so reply to that, and it seems to have gotten eaten. |
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| 17:51.34 | RST38h | Would there be iPhones, iPads and iPods on the market today if Sun Microsystems had been able to close a deal to buy out Apple in the mid-1990s? No, says McNealy. 'If we had bought Apple, there wouldn't have been iPods or iPads ... I'd have screwed that up. |
| 17:52.08 | luke-jr | s/'d// |
| 17:52.27 | SpeedEvil | ponders if the world would be a better place. |
| 17:52.57 | steve___ | Is there a way, on the n900, to buzz when a new email shows up, via imap, in a specific non-inbox folder? |
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| 17:55.07 | MohammadAG | ~ping |
| 17:55.07 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 17:58.43 | merlin1991 | steve___, afaik modest only supports the inbox folder in imap |
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| 18:02.37 | steve___ | merlin1991: ok thank you |
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| 18:03.45 | fil | just installed lxp's bleeding edge wifi kernel packages, and now my n900's in a reboot loop -- is it likely that I can just stick an old kernel on to fix this, or will I need a full reflash? |
| 18:03.56 | dado7 | any people speak spanish ? |
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| 18:05.57 | dado7 | i installed fcam driver n900 phone, and instaled others software and codecs... and in this time not work the camera :( any solution ? |
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| 18:06.23 | ruskie | fil, you can try |
| 18:06.28 | ruskie | dado7, what??? |
| 18:06.45 | fil | ruskie: fair enough -- will do |
| 18:06.57 | *** part/#maemo mawulil (~wircer@cpc1-aztw14-0-0-cust321.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:07.16 | ruskie | fil, if the issue is just the kernel... it should work |
| 18:07.48 | dado7 | excussme for my bad english. i m speaker spanish. i have fail with camera, dont work. this is after install fcam drivers and others hit for the camera |
| 18:08.13 | fil | ruskie: I think that's all, so I'll give it a try (after I've eaten something ...) |
| 18:08.16 | ruskie | what fcam drivers??? |
| 18:08.19 | dado7 | and my question is, can i reinstall the factory camera drivers ? |
| 18:08.53 | dado7 | fcam is soft to best photos camera |
| 18:09.04 | dado7 | you can google about this |
| 18:11.53 | ruskie | so remove it |
| 18:12.08 | dado7 | i remove..... |
| 18:12.27 | dado7 | and dont resolve... |
| 18:12.50 | toadpole | ( dado7 ): that had happened to me as well |
| 18:13.10 | toadpole | what i did was remove all camera related apps |
| 18:13.34 | dado7 | the las week, i install diferents apps to camera |
| 18:13.50 | toadpole | just remove everything related to the camera |
| 18:13.59 | toadpole | then install one by one and see which one is the problem |
| 18:14.06 | dado7 | okey |
| 18:14.10 | dado7 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:14.57 | alterego | javispedro: ping |
| 18:15.23 | javispedro | hi alterego |
| 18:15.40 | javispedro | alterego: just pondering if you're going to or are using sqlite for waypoint storage in columbus? |
| 18:15.42 | RST38h | moos at javispedro, circles the arena |
| 18:15.55 | toadpole | you think i'd be able to write the meego image to my microsd using my phone in mass storage mode? |
| 18:16.15 | ruskie | toadpole, why not just do it on-device ? |
| 18:16.24 | alterego | javispedro: I am yes |
| 18:16.28 | alterego | Using it that is. |
| 18:16.35 | MohammadAG | ruskie, that would take hours |
| 18:16.39 | MohammadAG | and the device would surely hang |
| 18:16.47 | ruskie | MohammadAG, not really |
| 18:16.55 | MohammadAG | oh, right, uSD |
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| 18:17.12 | MohammadAG | sorry, I have MeeGo on the eMMC |
| 18:17.12 | ruskie | but from my experience any uSD reader so far that I've tried was crap performance wise |
| 18:17.27 | MohammadAG | writing to the eMMC takes ages |
| 18:17.31 | toadpole | i have a class 10 microsd, would that help? |
| 18:17.37 | MohammadAG | ask ShadowJK |
| 18:17.41 | javispedro | alterego: I'm extending my garmin protocol talking daemon to be able to exchange waypoints+tracks. For the time being I'm writing them on my own sqlite db but since I don't want to write a "viewer" I'll use your apps format, if you don't mind =) |
| 18:17.51 | ruskie | if I were to put the uSD into a SD adapter it would always work a lot lot faster |
| 18:18.05 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: random - #openstreetmap over on irc.oftc.net |
| 18:18.09 | alterego | javispedro: sounds good :) |
| 18:18.35 | dado7 | alterego hablas mi idioma ? |
| 18:18.44 | alterego | dado7: I have no idea what you're saying |
| 18:18.50 | alterego | This is an English speaking channel. |
| 18:18.52 | dado7 | jijii |
| 18:18.53 | alterego | Speak English |
| 18:19.00 | ruskie | I'm guessing if you speak his language... |
| 18:19.04 | dado7 | your nick ... is spanish |
| 18:19.05 | ruskie | was the quesiton ;) |
| 18:19.20 | javispedro | (note that what I want is to use mapsource, ozi, gpsbabel, or some other grm protocol program to manage waypoints and track logs on my n900, not to talk to a true garmin device) |
| 18:19.24 | alterego | I think someone has told me this before. |
| 18:20.02 | javispedro | dado7: most latin derived languages read similarly |
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| 18:20.35 | toadpole | are the meego repositories as full as the maemo ones? |
| 18:21.48 | dado7 | i know javispedro |
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| 18:24.13 | DocScrutinizer | dado7: your english is just good enough, don't worry. Our Spanish for sure is worse ;-D |
| 18:24.49 | ruskie | I do wonder if google translate might have helped with understanding... |
| 18:25.04 | dado7 | jajaja, sometimes is hard to try, but i hope can understand me |
| 18:25.17 | DocScrutinizer | no problem :-) |
| 18:25.28 | dado7 | you right ruskie |
| 18:25.39 | ruskie | atleast with the initial question |
| 18:26.37 | toadpole | ( dado7 ): eliminar todas las aplicaciones relacionadas con la cámara, instale uno por uno y ver cuál está causando problemas |
| 18:27.04 | dado7 | The camera does not work, install third party applications |
| 18:27.13 | toadpole | lets hope google translate's spanish is up to scratch |
| 18:27.32 | javispedro | hm |
| 18:28.04 | dado7 | Can you reinstall the application of the camera? |
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| 18:28.34 | dado7 | okey toadpole |
| 18:28.44 | DocScrutinizer | toadpole: He has understood that for all I can tell. No need to start اللغات الأجنبية الشر |
| 18:28.49 | javispedro | dado7: I'm trying to pm you. |
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| 19:01.01 | user | H'all |
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| 19:03.08 | Rodrigo | Is Ubuntu already working on n8x0? |
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| 19:08.05 | villager | hah, now my program can submit queries to and parse phone directory webpages to look up phone numbers... now I just need to find a way to be notified of the phone number of anyone calling me, and I'll have a nice caller id program... hmm... |
| 19:08.32 | Rodrigo | villager: Cool |
| 19:10.09 | ruskie | interesting |
| 19:10.15 | ruskie | assuming the number is listed... |
| 19:10.23 | ruskie | btw do you also support .tel domains? |
| 19:11.57 | villager | .tel domains? I just want to look up phone numbers... |
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| 19:12.22 | ruskie | https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/.tel |
| 19:12.30 | ruskie | it's meant for such information as well ;) |
| 19:12.35 | ruskie | i.e. any contact info |
| 19:12.47 | villager | is that actually a useful way to look up most phone numbers? |
| 19:13.09 | ruskie | However tel is about publishing contact data: phone numbers, SIP addresses and so on directly in the DNS, not on html-based websites. |
| 19:13.12 | ruskie | no clue |
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| 19:14.29 | villager | the way I do it now is that I have a config file that says how to submit the http request and how to parse the webpage, so anyone could customize the thing to the online directory service of their country... |
| 19:15.14 | villager | more flexibility like multiple source websites (or even dns lookups?) can probably be added later... |
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| 19:17.41 | DocScrutinizer | villager: dbus-monitor, check out dbus-scripting pkg |
| 19:18.34 | villager | DocScrutinizer: yeah, now I just need someone other than the telemarketers who's interested in calling me... |
| 19:18.45 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 19:20.51 | DocScrutinizer | s/interested in /willing to do me a favour by/ |
| 19:21.26 | villager | if there are no docs I can read instead, guess it'll have to wait until monday, then I can ask people at work |
| 19:21.38 | DocScrutinizer | too bad when no landline in a mile |
| 19:21.47 | alterego | continues working on his Qml dialer |
| 19:22.11 | MohammadAG | wonders how that'll work :P |
| 19:22.18 | MohammadAG | alterego, MeeGo? |
| 19:22.44 | alterego | yer |
| 19:22.50 | MohammadAG | Ah |
| 19:23.03 | MohammadAG | Orientation lock, for the hell of it http://i53.tinypic.com/23ixqmh.jpg |
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| 20:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | if (dbus-scripting trigger: [path=/com/nokia/csd/call; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call; member=Coming] object path "/com/nokia/csd/call/1" string "$NUMBER").$NUMBER=="+49.*"; then http://www.klicktel.de/inverssuche/index/search?method=searchSimple&_dvform_posted=1&phoneNumber=$NUMBER |
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| 20:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | villager: I'm happy to give you another testcall when needed |
| 20:08.12 | DocScrutinizer | ping me on DocScrutinizer51 |
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| 20:23.11 | villager | DocScrutinizer: ok, but probably won't be before tomorrow... gonna watch movies and stuff the rest of the evening |
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| 20:24.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | np, anytime you like |
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| 20:57.14 | *** join/#maemo RaveniquE (~Sinan@212.253.102.104) |
| 20:57.35 | RaveniquE | hello |
| 20:59.03 | RaveniquE | I can't play videos, if I use overclock, using v46 kernel. If I don't use enchanced kernel then I can play them, dunno what to do. Can anything related with voltage adjustment or frequency be the reason? |
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| 21:02.42 | RaveniquE | any idea? |
| 21:03.45 | steve___ | Is it possible to use something like fdm to sync email with modest? Meaning if I sync email with fdm will I get a notification from modest? |
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| 21:13.56 | RaveniquE | I need ideas please! |
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| 21:18.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | RaveniquE: avoid overclocking! |
| 21:18.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~tell RaveniquE about omap-oc |
| 21:20.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | RaveniquE: hope you got an idea why OC is *BAD* and why bitching aout video playback breaking on OC is silly |
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| 21:22.13 | Sicelo | ~tell Sicelo about omap-oc |
| 21:22.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | for all I know PK46 should work OK with video playback, as long as used on standard settings for freq and core voltage |
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| 21:30.27 | RaveniquE | will give a fresh try, I get the idea, but I guess I am happy with @900 mhz. It is stable for me, except multi-tasked surfing sometimes |
| 21:31.06 | RaveniquE | Even you don't like OC thing, it makes me feel like "oooh, It feels faster" :P |
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| 21:33.29 | kerio | yeah but you're stupid |
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| 21:35.24 | RaveniquE | I wouldn't say that, if I can afford another one for a spare. I wanted to know if there's a solution and you say I'm stupid. |
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| 21:37.37 | luke-jr | RaveniquE: you are stupid. |
| 21:38.30 | RaveniquE | Offense wouldn't help. |
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| 21:50.28 | Turtle^^ | hey all |
| 21:51.09 | Turtle^^ | was just wondering can i repartition mmcblk0p2? |
| 21:51.22 | Turtle^^ | and move a bit of swap there |
| 21:51.37 | Turtle^^ | and turn off the mmblk0p3 |
| 21:52.08 | Turtle^^ | can this be done? |
| 21:53.20 | ShadowJK | There's a thread on tmo about repartitioning |
| 21:53.28 | ShadowJK | I think the common approach is to make the vfat partition smaller |
| 21:53.44 | ShadowJK | It's all kinda tricky so I wouldn't do it without reading about it first |
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| 21:54.14 | DocScrutinizer | easiest way is with a patched VANILLA imahe |
| 21:54.17 | MohammadAG | used gparted |
| 21:54.18 | DocScrutinizer | image |
| 21:54.23 | cehteh | Turtle^^: swap-files are meanwhile as fast as swap partitions on linux |
| 21:54.45 | Turtle^^ | which is the mmcblk0p1 (the fat32) one right? its 28gb |
| 21:54.51 | DocScrutinizer | except that afaik maemo doesn't support them swapfiles |
| 21:54.55 | ShadowJK | p1 is vfat, yes |
| 21:55.12 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, the kernel in maemo has a bug which makes them hang indefinitely :-) |
| 21:55.17 | ShadowJK | also, 'filefrag' hangs |
| 21:55.38 | cehteh | but biggier swap wont fix anything... just calculate the flash memory bandwidth and how long it will take to swap something in/out |
| 21:56.11 | cehteh | ShadowJK: not indefenitely .. just very long .. once i forgot to reboot my device on such a hang and it eventually recovered |
| 21:56.12 | Turtle^^ | i have never used more then 200mb of swap as far as conky has reported |
| 21:56.15 | ShadowJK | Actually bigger swap makes it take longer before swap fragmentation becomes an issue :P |
| 21:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | Turtle^^: for patching VANILLA prior to flashing eMMC see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 21:57.04 | Turtle^^ | thanks |
| 21:57.39 | DocScrutinizer | of course you can insert a uSD with a swap partition, swapon uSD, sawpoff eMMC, then edit partitions to split swap partition mmcblk0p3 into two |
| 21:58.11 | DocScrutinizer | then reboot immediately, to reread the partiton table |
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| 21:59.04 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: no |
| 21:59.09 | DocScrutinizer | no? |
| 21:59.14 | DocScrutinizer | what did I miss? |
| 21:59.16 | luke-jr | uSD swap crashes Maemo for some reason |
| 21:59.21 | DocScrutinizer | not here |
| 21:59.22 | Turtle^^ | but y wud i split the mmcblk0p3 |
| 21:59.30 | luke-jr | … |
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| 21:59.47 | javispedro | not here either, though I don't enable it that often. |
| 21:59.52 | DocScrutinizer | worked just fine |
| 22:00.07 | ShadowJK | uses uSD swap all the time |
| 22:00.17 | DocScrutinizer | others say they use that config all the time |
| 22:00.19 | luke-jr | weird |
| 22:00.19 | Turtle^^ | i was thinking about taking some space space from 0p2 or 0p1 in hopes that they maybe fatster |
| 22:00.22 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 22:00.52 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: maybe your back cover magnet is loose? ;-P |
| 22:01.11 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: no, it's in there fine |
| 22:01.18 | luke-jr | how does the magnet affect the uSD? |
| 22:01.40 | luke-jr | actually, I don't think it's even a magnet |
| 22:01.41 | luke-jr | x.x |
| 22:02.04 | DocScrutinizer | Turtle^^: eMMC is one flat 32GB storage chip, so mmcblk0pX are all same speed |
| 22:02.49 | Turtle^^ | :o |
| 22:02.50 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: it IS a magnet, and it umounts and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver |
| 22:03.01 | Turtle^^ | oooohkay! |
| 22:04.32 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: quite obviously your swap on uSD will crash the whole system when back cover gets removed or "removed" |
| 22:04.51 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: why? |
| 22:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | duh? you're *still* asking why? |
| 22:05.23 | SpeedEvil | Swap pages being not present does bad stuff. |
| 22:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | unplug your HDD with swap on it from your desktop PC to learn why |
| 22:05.34 | SpeedEvil | proposed ages ago per-user swap. |
| 22:05.36 | javispedro | luke-jr: try booting stock kernel with back cover removed, access sdcard. |
| 22:05.37 | luke-jr | magnet removal might trigger an umount, but that would fail if it's swap in use |
| 22:05.53 | luke-jr | magnet removal != uSD removal |
| 22:05.53 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: NOPE |
| 22:06.17 | ShadowJK | magnet removal causes pretty much the same behaviour as removing the uSD :-) |
| 22:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | the low level kernel driver for the uSD slot even powers down the slot |
| 22:06.48 | DocScrutinizer | so magnet removal == sd card removal |
| 22:07.44 | DocScrutinizer | which part of ""... and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver..." was too fuzzy? |
| 22:08.35 | MohammadAG | hildon-home in portrait mode, PoC http://i56.tinypic.com/2wcjz1z.jpg |
| 22:08.41 | ShadowJK | And it definitely is a magnet. The first Mugen back covers didn't have a magnet, so I smashed apart the headphones included with my N810 and harvested the tiny magnet in them, taped it to the cover, and microsd card worked again :-) |
| 22:09.20 | DocScrutinizer | it's definitely the magnet that also holds the kickstand |
| 22:09.46 | DocScrutinizer | the hall switch is next to that |
| 22:11.24 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, you could've patched the uSD driver so it always returns false :P |
| 22:13.08 | *** join/#maemo Irctime_ (~user@115-186-142-33.nayatel.pk) |
| 22:13.17 | Irctime_ | :D |
| 22:13.43 | Irctime_ | this was me on usd swapon and removing the backcover :D |
| 22:13.51 | Irctime_ | device reboots instantly |
| 22:13.54 | MohammadAG | lemme guess, reboot? |
| 22:13.55 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 22:14.20 | turtle^^ | yea |
| 22:17.14 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - HAL device:'/dev/mmcblk1p3' removed: |
| 22:17.16 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - UDI^I : /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_part3_size_139460608 |
| 22:17.43 | MohammadAG | yeah, mafw actually has code to monitor the card |
| 22:19.00 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: prop_modified:1889: udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_mmci_omap_hs_0_mmc_host modified button.state.value |
| 22:19.02 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: event_in_cover_closed:1209: E_OPENED for ext-MMC |
| 22:19.39 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 kernel: [84791.120025] mmc0: card 697b removed |
| 22:23.05 | DocScrutinizer | btw mmcblk1p3 is a linux swap partition size 128MB on that uSD |
| 22:24.27 | pupnik | what are you doing DocScrutinizer ? |
| 22:24.27 | *** join/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@91-66-18-182-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 22:25.56 | DocScrutinizer | nah, that uSd partitioning predates N900, it actually has kernel on a ~13GB VFAT p1 that'S also used for general data sharing and dump, p2 is ext3 holding a SHR system for FR, p3 are 128MB swap |
| 22:26.52 | DocScrutinizer | s/ext3/ext3 rootfs/ |
| 22:26.52 | pupnik | has someone figured out a way to install the root filesystem to mmc / SD and bultiboot that? |
| 22:26.55 | turtle^^ | so as you said emmc is one big 32gb thing, no matter where the swap is it wont have any effects on speed right? cuz thats what i wanted but i guess it can only give us more space if we make the swap smaller, thats the only benefit we can get right? |
| 22:27.46 | DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: ack for the speed part - sorry "can't parse" for the rest |
| 22:28.14 | pupnik | he wants to make swap smaller to get 'more space' |
| 22:28.36 | alterego | What, 5 megs? :D |
| 22:28.51 | alterego | swap is 512M |
| 22:28.58 | alterego | Do you really need that? |
| 22:29.13 | DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: one suggested solution to the swap fragmentation was to split the way too huge 750MB swap int two, then do a swapon 1&&swapoff 2 every 24h |
| 22:29.39 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.40 | turtle^^ | no i dont want a smaller swap .. just wanted to speed it up |
| 22:29.57 | javispedro | pupnik: I think that yes, someone cloned maemo to mmc and booted it from there (iirc the problem was pin entry dialog crashing) |
| 22:30.15 | DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: resucing fragmentation will speed up swapping |
| 22:30.22 | DocScrutinizer | ask ShadowJK |
| 22:30.43 | turtle^^ | hmm |
| 22:30.56 | *** join/#maemo Evet_ (~Evet@78.191.152.127) |
| 22:31.10 | DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: that's the root cause for "device gets sluggish after 3 days uptime" issue |
| 22:31.24 | turtle^^ | aha |
| 22:31.36 | turtle^^ | i dont mind rebooting device hehe |
| 22:32.34 | ShadowJK | What I do: swap on a separate partition on uSD. With "iostat -m" (part of sysstat in extras-devel), when the amount of bytes written to swap partition exceeds the size of swap partition, I swapon internal mmcblk0p3 swap, swapoff usd, swapon usd, swapoff mmcblk0p3. Typically after 2-4 days of "normal" use the amount written to swap has become big enough to warrant the swapon,swapoff,swapon,swapoff cycle. Or, an hour or two of fennec use :P |
| 22:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | only other tuning for swap is moving it to uSD, so the interface to eMMC doesn'T get congested with swapping while it should read/write to files |
| 22:32.56 | *** join/#maemo mortenvp (~mortenvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 22:33.59 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nice :-))) mind to share the exact scripts? |
| 22:34.04 | *** join/#maemo beford (~0o0o0@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 22:34.42 | turtle^^ | cool |
| 22:35.01 | turtle^^ | maybe have both the swap partitions on usd |
| 22:35.07 | *** join/#maemo xkr47 (xkr47@host-94-101-4-106.igua.fi) |
| 22:35.10 | turtle^^ | and swapon/off there |
| 22:35.17 | DocScrutinizer | can do that as well |
| 22:35.18 | turtle^^ | emmc remains untouched |
| 22:35.21 | *** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@86-41-46-30-dynamic.b-ras2.dbn.dublin.eircom.net) |
| 22:35.21 | *** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
| 22:35.22 | *** join/#maemo niala (~niala@78.251.108.19) |
| 22:35.23 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 22:35.34 | javispedro | moving it to swap makes the device go quickly hot here |
| 22:35.41 | javispedro | (so I guess it reduces battery life) |
| 22:35.42 | DocScrutinizer | so you don't need to move all the swapped out pages TWO times |
| 22:35.48 | javispedro | *moving it to sd :P |
| 22:35.50 | ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/reswap.sh.txt adjust it for your needs, etc |
| 22:35.59 | ShadowJK | echo 0 > reswap.stat on boot |
| 22:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you're a hero |
| 22:36.10 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p549FF74B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:36.17 | ShadowJK | I just manually run it whenever device starts feeling sluggish |
| 22:37.15 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, no problem. you can help me with some highschool-level electronics later :P |
| 22:37.20 | pupnik | has anyone re-attached their flaky usb? |
| 22:37.29 | mortenvp | Hi guys, trying to do a: "sudo mad-admin create -f fremantle-pr13" |
| 22:37.31 | DocScrutinizer | a please :-D |
| 22:37.37 | DocScrutinizer | a pleasure |
| 22:37.59 | DocScrutinizer | grr, if I manage to kickstart the other half of my brain until then ;-) |
| 22:38.06 | mortenvp | But it fails with a: "Can not find '/usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/cache/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz' -- no such file." |
| 22:38.30 | nox- | moin |
| 22:38.38 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: nothing heard about such execise, but should be simple |
| 22:38.53 | DocScrutinizer | ohno, abill-uk did :-P |
| 22:39.12 | Macer | so with the advent of winmob on nokia phones... how will maemo fair? |
| 22:39.25 | mortenvp | Any advise on how to get the fremantle target.. A url or something? |
| 22:39.32 | ShadowJK | Well Maemo was already buried before winmob :P |
| 22:39.38 | Macer | heh |
| 22:39.50 | pupnik | looks at maemo and thinks it's basically awesome |
| 22:39.51 | Macer | the meego stuff is getting there on the n900 |
| 22:40.03 | Macer | yeah pupnik it is a shame really |
| 22:40.12 | Macer | they really dropped the ball with maemo |
| 22:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | maemo isn't dead until they roll out the poisoned m6 |
| 22:40.27 | Macer | hah |
| 22:40.32 | Macer | isnt't meego m6? |
| 22:40.34 | Macer | :) |
| 22:40.59 | Macer | i like what stskeeps is trying to do tho |
| 22:41.03 | DocScrutinizer | m6 maemo-harmattan meego lookalike BS |
| 22:41.19 | Macer | trying to open up the n900 as much as he can to get it in the mainstream arm kernel |
| 22:41.52 | DocScrutinizer | while sacrificing all the real good things in maemo |
| 22:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | without any need |
| 22:42.08 | Macer | sounds like a backport |
| 22:42.47 | DocScrutinizer | CSSU is the real effort to get maemo to a state where it's 100% upstream ready |
| 22:42.57 | javispedro | well. |
| 22:43.01 | Macer | well. maemo isnt the problem |
| 22:43.02 | pupnik | i hate people who say 'nokia has no ecosystem' - what are we? chopped liver? |
| 22:43.10 | Macer | nokia/ti is ;) |
| 22:43.20 | Macer | afa the n900 is concerned |
| 22:43.37 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: We're what remains after the planes with the agent orange in have been over. |
| 22:43.50 | MohammadAG | so many things that could've been fixed, if stuff was open source |
| 22:43.52 | javispedro | shouts STANDARD NERDS! then goes back to typing ROLLBACK TRANSACTION TO SAVEPOINT ... |
| 22:44.08 | MohammadAG | if a hildon-home in portrait mode concept took less than 5 minutes |
| 22:44.21 | MohammadAG | it only proves that in 1 year, there was no effort to get it done |
| 22:44.54 | turtle^^ | sigh |
| 22:45.00 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:45.34 | pupnik | MohammadAG: what would you want to do in portrait mode. 1) phone 2) sms 3)....? |
| 22:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ooooh, that's been a nice one :-) |
| 22:45.53 | MohammadAG | phone works fine |
| 22:46.07 | MohammadAG | conversations just needs the portrait flag and minor fixes |
| 22:46.10 | DocScrutinizer | actually I feel like having taken a deep breath of agent orange |
| 22:46.21 | MohammadAG | mediaplayer needs a whole new layout, can be easily done |
| 22:46.24 | Macer | you can put hildon in portrait? |
| 22:46.24 | ShadowJK | Would be cool to have fontsize change back in conversations |
| 22:46.32 | turtle^^ | whats an agent orange ? |
| 22:46.36 | DocScrutinizer | in fact I did - well sorta - some 30 yeard ago |
| 22:46.38 | jacekowski | turtle^^: google it |
| 22:46.43 | jacekowski | turtle^^: it's a defoliant |
| 22:46.45 | MohammadAG | Macer, concept: http://i56.tinypic.com/2wcjz1z.jpg |
| 22:46.47 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: And has been for OMP? |
| 22:46.57 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, yeah |
| 22:47.03 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@191.76.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:47.32 | Macer | MohammadAG: that was some sort of "bug" |
| 22:47.50 | Macer | i thought that was some sort of debugging thing |
| 22:47.52 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: did you spend some time in vietnam in 1980? |
| 22:47.53 | MohammadAG | Macer, no, it's my edits to hildon-desktop's code... |
| 22:47.58 | Macer | oh |
| 22:48.14 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/nowplayingwindow.cpp#line243 |
| 22:48.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik: they sold the same shit to varnish your wood ceiling in Europe |
| 22:48.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | google xyladecor |
| 22:48.52 | Macer | well... the maemo base is all in place for the n900 |
| 22:49.03 | *** join/#maemo timeless_xchat (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 22:49.11 | MohammadAG | Macer, the "bug" you mentioned kept widgets aligned horizontally |
| 22:49.19 | Macer | MohammadAG: yeah |
| 22:49.21 | MohammadAG | my edit unlocks positioning, although it's not neat |
| 22:49.28 | *** join/#maemo Roksteady (~mikaelf@c83-253-20-59.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 22:49.28 | *** join/#maemo Roksteady (~mikaelf@pdpc/supporter/active/roksteady) |
| 22:49.36 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer51: only in germany |
| 22:49.37 | Macer | the status bar would also fall off the screen |
| 22:49.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | oh |
| 22:50.01 | MohammadAG | Jaffa's trying to get an algorithm for this |
| 22:50.02 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 22:50.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, dosn't help me out ;-D |
| 22:50.19 | Macer | either way... maemo has all the parts required for the n900 |
| 22:50.54 | Macer | all it would really need is either a better hildon or a new interface |
| 22:50.57 | Jaffa | might mock something up. |
| 22:50.58 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:51.05 | Jaffa | Algorithmically, not graphically :-) |
| 22:51.06 | MohammadAG | hildon is epic |
| 22:51.17 | Jaffa | I love my N900. Just wish it was faster and had some bugs fixed. |
| 22:51.17 | MohammadAG | it just needs someone to pick it up |
| 22:51.37 | MohammadAG | same |
| 22:51.42 | Macer | MohammadAG: it is pretty good. but there are no devs that want to do much with it |
| 22:52.06 | MohammadAG | alterego, ever thought about something? in Qt we listen to screen size changed, in some gtk apps, the apps listen to mce signals |
| 22:52.18 | Macer | since in 5 years n900s will be collectors items |
| 22:52.24 | Macer | :) |
| 22:52.25 | MohammadAG | that means layout fixing starts after rotation |
| 22:52.35 | MohammadAG | Macer, that's the problem |
| 22:52.43 | MohammadAG | I'm actually excited about Cordia |
| 22:52.50 | Macer | cordia? |
| 22:52.56 | MohammadAG | MeeGo + Hildon |
| 22:53.01 | Macer | oh |
| 22:53.09 | Macer | i saw a yt video of it |
| 22:54.16 | Macer | i just hope meego supports all the n900 hw before 2015 |
| 22:54.32 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr_ (~quassel@ishibashi.dashjr.org) |
| 22:54.36 | jonwil | I think that if Nokia can help with http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant, we can do great things with the N900 :) |
| 22:55.00 | SpeedEvil | Indeed! |
| 22:55.02 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:55.31 | SpeedEvil | We could all buy a share, and go to the next stockholders meeting. :) |
| 22:55.37 | jonwil | it would be even better if we could have source code to thinks like the dialer app. But that's never going to happen :( |
| 22:55.44 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer51: why do they outlaw all decent wood-protection :/ |
| 22:56.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | it doesn't taste good enough. It's concidered cruel to offer such evel stuff for suicide |
| 22:56.58 | pupnik | jonwil: is there a meego dialer app yet? |
| 22:57.20 | jonwil | no idea. |
| 22:57.38 | jonwil | But even if there is, there is no way its going to be a suitable replacement for the maemo dialer app on maemo. |
| 22:57.45 | javispedro | of course there is, pupnik. |
| 22:57.54 | javispedro | wheter it sucks or not... |
| 22:57.59 | pupnik | javispedro: can it run on maemo? |
| 22:58.07 | jonwil | the maemo dialer app is tied to too many other things to be replaced easily |
| 22:58.15 | javispedro | pupnik: for a start it will require ofono. |
| 22:58.20 | mortenvp | Hi guys, I'm looking for the following file: fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz is it available somewhere |
| 22:58.42 | MohammadAG | Qt SDK installer should dl it |
| 23:00.03 | mortenvp | MohammadAG, ok - so do I have to use the Nokia Qt SDK to get it.. I was hoping I could download it and use it with madde without installing the Nokia Qt SDK |
| 23:00.19 | MohammadAG | ah, not sure, sorry |
| 23:00.56 | *** join/#maemo yigal (~yigal@pool-96-229-102-54.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:00.58 | pupnik | my app manager no-longer shows the pr 1.3 ota update... what can i apt-get to do the pr 1.3 update? i have Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 |
| 23:01.28 | yigal | what is the command line command to start easy debian chroot, I want to start a session via ssh? |
| 23:01.30 | pupnik | apt-get install mp-fremantle-203-pr ? |
| 23:02.41 | *** join/#maemo I-C-Wiener (~quassel@h84253.upc-h.chello.nl) |
| 23:02.57 | javispedro | pupnik: got a n900? |
| 23:03.04 | pupnik | javispedro: fixed the waterdamaged one! |
| 23:03.10 | javispedro | O.O |
| 23:03.26 | pupnik | alcohol DOES solve some problems :D |
| 23:03.35 | javispedro | heh |
| 23:03.42 | javispedro | after so many months, and it survived? impressive! |
| 23:03.59 | pupnik | it's beautiful... /me tears |
| 23:04.09 | yigal | really no one has ever wanted to start debian chroot via ssh? |
| 23:04.27 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: haha :-D |
| 23:04.56 | javispedro | pupnik: you can consider yourself very lucky =) |
| 23:05.01 | pupnik | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch09#_chroot_system |
| 23:05.02 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 23:05.30 | yigal | yes, but if I remember there are special scripts for Easy Debian |
| 23:05.35 | yigal | that makes ure to mount things properly |
| 23:05.44 | javispedro | yigal: I suggest you ask on talk.maemo.org where the author posts some times |
| 23:05.54 | javispedro | uses his own chrooter at this point |
| 23:05.56 | luke-jr | I wish Quassel2Go had a more X-Chat like UI |
| 23:06.01 | yigal | qoles a very cool dude |
| 23:06.12 | luke-jr | with channels on the left and change via the volume control |
| 23:06.49 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: maybe switch to xchat? |
| 23:06.55 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@97.8.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 23:07.04 | yigal | irssi |
| 23:07.11 | DocScrutinizer | blargh |
| 23:07.36 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: xchat loses out on stuff people say when I lose signal :P |
| 23:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | ooh I see |
| 23:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | well, probably it'd be easy to patch sth like ZNC a tiny bit, and patch xchat just so uch as to send a ACK for each pkt sent by ZNC |
| 23:09.52 | DocScrutinizer | ZNC already supports buffering and playback on connect, it just needs a bit faster disconnect on conection stall |
| 23:11.38 | RaveniquE | goodnight everybody |
| 23:11.59 | *** join/#maemo timeless_xchat (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 23:12.29 | pupnik | znc sounds good |
| 23:12.36 | DocScrutinizer | actually I'm a bit pizzled about IRC being tcp and still it doesn't norice about lost packets |
| 23:12.42 | DocScrutinizer | notice* |
| 23:12.49 | *** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.11.199) |
| 23:12.51 | DocScrutinizer | and puzzled* |
| 23:13.05 | DocScrutinizer | heads to the corner, weeping |
| 23:13.18 | ShadowJK | it's generally a bit cumbersome from an app to figure out what packets have made it to the other side and what hasn't |
| 23:13.28 | SpeedEvil | TCP is only badly affected y lost pacets at >25% or so |
| 23:13.33 | SpeedEvil | Interactrive TCP |
| 23:13.40 | SpeedEvil | played a lot of MUDs |
| 23:13.47 | pupnik | :) |
| 23:13.51 | luke-jr | OMFG |
| 23:13.53 | jonwil | btw I am 100% convinced that it would be possible to figure out all the non-UI stuff needed to write a dialer replacement, it would just be a matter of finding someone familiar with Telepathy, Mission Control, osso, dbus, libhal and glib |
| 23:13.54 | *** join/#maemo eijk_ (~eijk@e178211161.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:14.01 | SpeedEvil | When exponential backoff kicks in, it gets unpleasant. |
| 23:14.10 | luke-jr | Quassel2Go doesn't support downloading backscroll at all |
| 23:14.11 | luke-jr | idiots |
| 23:14.13 | luke-jr | wtf is the point |
| 23:14.17 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 23:14.34 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such? |
| 23:14.40 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 23:14.43 | luke-jr | no |
| 23:14.44 | ShadowJK | From the "2go" part I assume they made a "mobile" version, and removed the one feature that makes standard quassel good for mobile use? |
| 23:14.45 | luke-jr | it can't |
| 23:14.50 | MohammadAG | it does |
| 23:14.51 | luke-jr | IRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps |
| 23:15.00 | MohammadAG | it isn't forging |
| 23:15.04 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: yeah |
| 23:15.07 | luke-jr | well, *someone* did |
| 23:15.13 | luke-jr | MohammadAG: forging is what I want :p |
| 23:15.17 | MohammadAG | [01:14:50] <luke-jr> IRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps |
| 23:15.21 | MohammadAG | it does that ^ |
| 23:15.24 | ShadowJK | servers don't send timestamps to clients in general, not in any meaningful way anyway :) |
| 23:15.32 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: that's the problem |
| 23:15.34 | ShadowJK | But inter-server protocol is all about time stamps :) |
| 23:15.42 | luke-jr | when I rejoin, I don't want everything in history timestamped as connect-time |
| 23:15.43 | DocScrutinizer | ZNC does |
| 23:15.44 | MohammadAG | let's patch freenode! |
| 23:15.58 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: meh, maybe I'll try it |
| 23:15.59 | ShadowJK | My N900 just never loses connectivity :> |
| 23:16.08 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: impossible in the US :p |
| 23:16.16 | luke-jr | N900 doesn't support any carrier with decent coverage |
| 23:16.30 | DocScrutinizer | [00:15] <luke-jr> (00:13) DocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such? |
| 23:16.32 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, to the client, the timestamp is connect-stamp sadly |
| 23:16.52 | MohammadAG | if you have timestamps enabled in xchat that is |
| 23:17.01 | *** join/#maemo joga (joga@rikki.fi) |
| 23:17.01 | luke-jr | -.- |
| 23:17.23 | jonwil | suspects that finding someone with telepathy skills is going to be almost impossible :P |
| 23:17.25 | DocScrutinizer | first is xchat reception time, second is ZNC real send time |
| 23:17.52 | MohammadAG | yeah, he wants the xchat time to be forged |
| 23:18.01 | MohammadAG | which is something I've never seen |
| 23:18.13 | pupnik | how do you guys turn-off the cell radio when you don't need it? |
| 23:18.15 | DocScrutinizer | won't fly, that's locally generated |
| 23:18.22 | MohammadAG | yep |
| 23:18.32 | DocScrutinizer | IRC doesn't send timestamps |
| 23:19.02 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: there is an applet |
| 23:19.07 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: tablet mode |
| 23:19.13 | DocScrutinizer | or airplane mode |
| 23:19.17 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: Also - offlinemode sometimes |
| 23:19.34 | pupnik | k... looking for that |
| 23:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | powerbutton |
| 23:19.58 | pupnik | lol ty |
| 23:20.04 | SpeedEvil | powerbutton menu |
| 23:20.07 | yigal | ok so that was easy enough after a bit of searching, mkdir ~/.debian2 && quserchroot /media/mmc1/debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2 ~/.debian2, or something similar |
| 23:20.08 | psycho_oreos | there's alarmed that can set to airplane mode iirc |
| 23:20.12 | pupnik | totally forgot about that menu |
| 23:22.05 | *** join/#maemo fecub (~fecub@e182007038.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:22.25 | DocScrutinizer | there's an update to alarmed that's nagging me every 24h, but has conflicts :-( |
| 23:22.38 | MohammadAG | Qt? |
| 23:22.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 23:23.05 | jonwil | thinks the idea of a maemo distmaster is a good idea |
| 23:23.26 | MohammadAG | we have no distmaster |
| 23:23.55 | jonwil | someone suggested becoming one and working with Nokia to release more code |
| 23:23.56 | DocScrutinizer | that's why jonwil says it's a good idea ;-) |
| 23:24.14 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@186.215.0.3) |
| 23:24.14 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 23:24.21 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.149.168) |
| 23:25.27 | jonwil | someone who could prepare code that is releasable for release and could also potentially fix bugs (and push binaries) in code that cant be released |
| 23:26.23 | MohammadAG | I already asked if they could do that themselves |
| 23:26.29 | MohammadAG | apparently, the devs can't |
| 23:26.37 | jonwil | I think the issue is that |
| 23:26.47 | jonwil | that Nokia doesn't have the resources to do anything |
| 23:27.22 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@186.215.0.3) |
| 23:27.36 | divan | hmm.. while untarring archives (.ipk files, actually) I've got unexpected reboots on N900 a few times. Latest power kernel and swappolube enabled. |
| 23:27.44 | yigal | jonwil: and by that you mean brain power in high up places |
| 23:28.13 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (~Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 23:28.25 | jonwil | No, I mean people to review the code and remove anything that cant be released. |
| 23:28.27 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@81.200.10.86) |
| 23:28.45 | jonwil | e.g. remove internal email addresses, intranet URLs and other such things |
| 23:28.51 | yigal | yes I know that you didn't mean that, but I did |
| 23:28.54 | Jaffa | jonwil: DocScrutinizer: Sent email to Nokia about pending licence changes. qgil's in Helsinki next week so will have some chats. |
| 23:29.06 | jonwil | sounds good |
| 23:29.48 | jonwil | That list of 8 or so requests covers all the closed source things that A.Have a valid use case for being opened up and B.Are actually likely to be opened up |
| 23:30.08 | jonwil | The list doesn't include things people asked for without a valid use case |
| 23:30.12 | pupnik | RST38h: btw i'd like to suggest changing controls in vulture's eye.. make the arrow keys do 'diagonals' only when combined with CTRL key |
| 23:30.51 | MohammadAG | wants the dialer open sourced |
| 23:30.58 | jonwil | so do I |
| 23:31.05 | MohammadAG | mediaplayer, not so much, already challenged Nokia there |
| 23:31.07 | jonwil | but thats never going to happen |
| 23:31.17 | pupnik | why not jonwil ? |
| 23:31.30 | MohammadAG | pupnik, you can never be optimistic on #maemo :P |
| 23:31.38 | jonwil | Nokia have already said that "User Experience/UI" is a "point of difference" |
| 23:32.02 | pupnik | the UI of Dialer? |
| 23:32.09 | jonwil | and thats why they wont open up their UX like the dialer or messaging app |
| 23:32.25 | jonwil | Also, opening up the dialer pulls in a lot of other lower level stuff that they may not want to open or publish |
| 23:32.38 | pupnik | ah i see |
| 23:32.52 | *** join/#maemo Evet (~Evet@78.191.189.119) |
| 23:33.25 | jonwil | I am sure that Jaffa and others would agree with me that its not worth asking Nokia about the dialer when there are other things that are far more likely to be opened up that we can ask for |
| 23:34.13 | MohammadAG | bme isn't one of them :p |
| 23:34.32 | jonwil | yeah asking for BME to be opened wont help |
| 23:34.45 | jonwil | but I think the 8 items we asked for have a reasonable chance of success |
| 23:35.53 | jonwil | hildon-plugins-notify-sv should be possible, I suspect the main "secret sauce" in there would be in the way it controls audio routing and priority to ensure ringtones can override anything else being played |
| 23:36.33 | MohammadAG | isn't that part of hildon-home? |
| 23:36.37 | jonwil | no |
| 23:36.40 | jonwil | its a separate package |
| 23:36.41 | jonwil | called hildon-plugins-notify-sv |
| 23:36.53 | jonwil | There is a notification daemon thats part of hildon-home |
| 23:36.58 | jonwil | which loads the plugin hildon-plugins-notify-sv and talks to it |
| 23:36.59 | MohammadAG | hildon-sv-notification-daemon |
| 23:37.06 | MohammadAG | my bad |
| 23:37.29 | jonwil | My guess is it was originally closed source because of the details of it talking to the audio stack |
| 23:40.35 | jonwil | I think the main issue with the SMS code is that opening up libsms and csd-sms is going to require opening dev packages for libisi and stuff (they said in the past "no we cant open that stuff up because it pulls in the modem control protocol") |
| 23:41.00 | jonwil | Although that was probably before ofono-n900 existed |
| 23:41.01 | pupnik | fresh new battery is a nice thing |
| 23:41.44 | jonwil | any argument of "we cant open this up because it exposes details of the cell modem" can likely be countered with "anything exposed by this will also be exposed by the ofono source code" |
| 23:42.43 | pupnik | is ofono what the openmoko guys used? |
| 23:42.57 | pupnik | nice jonwil |
| 23:43.06 | jonwil | no, the FreeSmartPhone guys working on n900 are using ogsmd |
| 23:43.24 | jonwil | although I think they borrowed bits of ofono code for it |
| 23:44.08 | *** join/#maemo biston (~biston@212.101.241.217) |
| 23:44.20 | jonwil | The request for Fremantle MCE, not sure how likely that is, I guess it depends on whether there is anything left in there that is sensitive |
| 23:44.28 | jonwil | and if there is, how hard it would be to remove |
| 23:45.20 | MohammadAG | jonwil, http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/merge_requests/2 |
| 23:45.22 | *** join/#maemo RiD (0253285a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.83.40.90) |
| 23:45.33 | MohammadAG | the fact that something as easy as that is "Open" defines laziness :P |
| 23:45.46 | RiD | Hi |
| 23:46.09 | jonwil | :) |
| 23:46.29 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: nope, OM/SHR is using FSO |
| 23:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | where FSO >> ofono |
| 23:47.28 | pupnik | ok and meego is using ofono? |
| 23:47.42 | jonwil | I am hoping that the ICD request can be fulfulled |
| 23:47.44 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:47.55 | jonwil | there are some good things that would be possible with some of the ICD stuff] |
| 23:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: ofono borrowed by FSO, FSO borrowed by ofono, both rely on openmodemapi specs |
| 23:48.26 | *** join/#maemo Evet (~Evet@pdpc/supporter/active/evet) |
| 23:48.28 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: yep, afaik meego is based on ofono |
| 23:48.39 | jonwil | actually ofono was written by Nokia employees and does actually contain code taken from the previous telephony stack |
| 23:48.45 | jonwil | i.e. its not a cleanroom implementation |
| 23:48.47 | DocScrutinizer | while I stopped to bitch on them to switch to FSO :-P |
| 23:49.09 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: sure |
| 23:49.14 | DocScrutinizer | obviously |
| 23:49.44 | DocScrutinizer | ofono just is plagued by severe NIH syndrome |
| 23:50.43 | jonwil | hopes N900 MeeGo gets GPS |
| 23:51.06 | DocScrutinizer | afaik FSO has been there prior to ofono, but the ofono guys put down FSO offer to cooperate and join into one project, by the rationale of FSO being a mere AT interface to modem. Now ofono is more of a AT interface than FSO :-P |
| 23:51.06 | SpeedEvil1 | GPS is easy |
| 23:51.29 | SpeedEvil1 | We can do GPS today. Not AGPS -but... |
| 23:51.55 | RiD | Hmm, i feel like i'm the little mouse hiding from those big cats. |
| 23:52.09 | pupnik | hi RiD |
| 23:52.14 | DocScrutinizer | FSO is a comprehensive middleware covering all from ofono/ISI over mce til alsa-ped |
| 23:52.34 | MohammadAG | hey RiD |
| 23:52.45 | RiD | pupnik: hi :) |
| 23:52.46 | DocScrutinizer | while ofono became what they objected to FSO |
| 23:53.04 | jonwil | All that we have for GPS at this point is an incomplete reverse engineering of a handful of the couple dozen packets sent to the GPS resourcfe |
| 23:53.07 | jonwil | resource |
| 23:53.18 | RiD | MohammadAG: Hi, I still remember the Snap to Grid failure i did. |
| 23:53.32 | MohammadAG | set it to 0? :) |
| 23:53.34 | SpeedEvil1 | jonwil: It can connect to the GPS, and get a position. |
| 23:53.47 | SpeedEvil1 | jonwil: I agree APGS would benice |
| 23:53.49 | DocScrutinizer | what we have for GPS is the complete specs for the cmt FW verion yet to come for N900 :-P |
| 23:54.00 | RiD | MohammadAG: Yes, I promise i won't be half asleep anymore. |
| 23:54.18 | MohammadAG | heh, you might be able to recover with R&D mode if you do it again :p |
| 23:54.21 | jonwil | Last I heard the right people are working on porting the Maemo GPS stack to MeeGo with the intent of releasing it |
| 23:55.06 | DocScrutinizer | so odds are meego never will see the GPS API for the cmt FW version we got on N900 |
| 23:55.14 | Arkenoi | is still in confusion about auto rotation. It seems to be enabling and disabling in quite a random fashion. Say, i have it "enabled" in messaging, then i switch to fbreader, it is disabled there, i press ctrl-shift-R and whoops -- it is enabled in fbreader and instantly disabled in messaging |
| 23:55.22 | RiD | Oh, talking about R&D mode, didn't disabled it. I'm really lazy when it comes to certain things. |
| 23:56.03 | jonwil | I think what was said is that once its made to work, discussions about making bits of it open source will follow |
| 23:56.27 | DocScrutinizer | RiD: R&D will eat your batery |
| 23:56.29 | jonwil | I think there is no objection to releasing the GPS information, just that its easier to port the existing code than to write a new implemenation |
| 23:57.11 | SpeedEvil1 | Just dump the code. |
| 23:57.21 | jonwil | dump what code? |
| 23:57.25 | SpeedEvil1 | I mean - who has a rapuyama GPS. |
| 23:57.29 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: this BS about "first implement then open" gets me upset every time they do that |
| 23:57.30 | SpeedEvil1 | It's not a commercial issue. |
| 23:57.54 | jonwil | it may be that there are issues with proprietary algorithims used in the userspace bits |
| 23:57.57 | RiD | DocScrutinizer: My battery never really lasted more than one day (before R&D and after). But will disable it, maybe tomorrow. |
| 23:58.54 | SpeedEvil | has real doubts as to 'magik seeeeekrit algorithms'. |
| 23:59.00 | jonwil | in any case there is nothing more I can do as far as pushing for things to be opened (I would file a bug asking for dialer UI to be opened but I figure that would just be a waste of my time and everyone elses) |
| 23:59.04 | SpeedEvil | After the whole BME thing. |
| 23:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | ARRRRRGH |
| 23:59.35 | DocScrutinizer | magic secret BS how to kill batteries |
