IRC log for #maemo on 20110220

00:00.01DocScrutinizer51~ping
00:00.02infobot~pong
00:00.27*** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-117-27.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
00:01.15Ken-YoungWorst. Video.  Game. Ever.
00:01.42DocScrutinizerpong?
00:01.57Ken-Young~ping ~pong with infobot.
00:01.58infobotpong ~pong with infobot.
00:02.24DocScrutinizer;-P
00:02.36DocScrutinizer~pong
00:02.36infobot~ping
00:02.43DocScrutinizer~ding
00:02.43infobotdong
00:02.49Ken-Young~foo
00:02.50infoboti heard foo is bar
00:02.53*** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
00:04.23*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
00:04.32DocScrutinizerbackup-menu is fsckdup, booting with kbd slide open spits out some cryptic msg "cp /usr/lib/liblzo /tmp/usr/lib error" or the like, then device shuts down :-/
00:06.35DocScrutinizerluckily it boots flawlessly when slide closed
00:07.42derf"If it hurts, don't do that."
00:08.00DocScrutinizermeh, going to update it
00:14.18*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-117-27.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
00:19.53korhojoaDocScrutinizer: it uses lzo to compress the backups, i guess
00:20.22korhojoaand for some reason, it's not available?
00:20.55DocScrutinizeryep, but I think it did that before, and I also haven't updated it or otherwise changed sth with liblzo or backup-menu
00:21.49*** join/#maemo comawhite (comawhite_@kde/developer/karusler)
00:21.50DocScrutinizerwell, updated it now, it installed liblzo and up'ed fro 0.60 to 0.63, now it works again
00:21.56DocScrutinizerstrange
00:22.23DocScrutinizerooops 0.62
00:22.40DocScrutinizersays menu screen
00:23.25DocScrutinizerstill no way to bootup a normal system with slide open
00:25.14Juozapashow to take a screenshot ? cant remember keys combination
00:25.26psycho_oreosCtrl+ Shift+ P
00:25.35Juozapasthx
00:25.38psycho_oreosnw
00:25.59DocScrutinizerI mean, how hard can it be to quit the backup-menu process same why on pressing enter that it would when slide is closed
00:26.42DocScrutinizers/why/way
00:27.53korhojoaDocScrutinizer, yeah. that would be nice
00:31.19Juozapasmaybe there is grr developer here?
00:31.53Ken-YoungJuozapas,  What is grr?
00:32.14*** join/#maemo architect_ (~architect@189.70.64.234)
00:32.29Juozapasprogram for google reader
00:33.22Juozapashttp://maemo.org/packages/view/grr/
00:34.22*** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.74.85.229)
00:35.23Sc0rpiuswhen was the last update pushed?
00:40.12*** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at)
00:40.13Sc0rpiuswrong channel anyway
00:42.51*** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org)
00:47.11*** join/#maemo qurk_ (~qurk@99.151.34.222)
00:52.46*** join/#maemo tuho (~t@a91-153-38-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
00:59.21*** join/#maemo w00t_ (~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t)
01:16.39*** join/#maemo zeltak (~zeltak@c-71-232-79-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
01:17.24*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
01:17.57*** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl)
01:20.11*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@rocket.vel.lv)
01:20.11*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jd)
01:20.25*** join/#maemo fiferboy (~quassel@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy)
01:21.25*** join/#maemo Openfree (~Openfreer@61.173.49.156)
01:28.33*** join/#maemo croppa_ (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net)
01:34.39*** join/#maemo b004n (~alex@173-10-175-74-BusName-washingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
01:34.44*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@pool-108-14-87-241.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
01:35.57*** join/#maemo xnt14 (~xnt14@unaffiliated/xnt14)
01:43.27*** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@81-234-249-242-no52.tbcn.telia.com)
01:43.27*** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq)
01:53.56*** part/#maemo Trapp (~russell@bw1pool1-13.maysvilleky.net)
01:58.35*** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
01:58.45*** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net)
01:59.07lolcatcroppa: :(
01:59.11lolcatcomawhite: :(
01:59.31*** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org)
02:00.06*** join/#maemo sar3th (sar3th@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-qpqkayyanidygbdg)
02:02.48comawhiteyeah?
02:11.52*** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@sal69-2-78-192-146-25.fbxo.proxad.net)
02:11.52*** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal)
02:18.12*** part/#maemo b004n (~alex@173-10-175-74-BusName-washingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
02:30.06*** join/#maemo sleepee (~sleepee@173.215.171.52)
02:47.57*** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@adsl-93-49-73.owb.bellsouth.net)
02:56.25*** join/#maemo gggs (~g@unaffiliated/gggs)
03:00.28*** join/#maemo rbrito (~rbrito@187.22.181.172)
03:09.00*** join/#maemo npouillard (np@ks36428.kimsufi.com)
03:16.30*** join/#maemo rcg1 (~rc@g230051046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
03:16.56*** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)
03:17.56rbritoHi there. I recently (well, quite recently) got me a N900, since it is based on Debian (well, I am a Debian Maintainer for about 3 years) and I would like to hack my packages.
03:19.52*** join/#maemo robtaylor (~robtaylor@floopily.codethink.co.uk)
03:20.03*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@rocket.vel.lv)
03:20.03*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jd)
03:25.19*** join/#maemo robtaylor (~robtaylor@floopily.codethink.co.uk)
03:26.41luke-jrrbrito: it's not based on Debian really.
03:26.55luke-jrrbrito: also, Maemo is dead, and only 45% open source
03:27.50chxreally?
03:27.57chxi thought much higher percentage :/
03:28.59luke-jrwell, unlike earlier models, at least N900 has most of the drivers open
03:29.04luke-jronly exception is 3D accel I think
03:29.11luke-jrso … you can run Gentoo! :P
03:29.14luke-jror port Debian
03:29.17chxluke-jr: http://wiki.maemo.org/Port_an_existing_Debian_package this pretty much makes it a Debian based system isnt it
03:29.39luke-jrchx: it's a dpkg/apt-based system, but it doesn't use Debian's packages
03:29.59chxwell, Debian packages can be modified to run, no?
03:30.00luke-jrdue to its closed nature, it's also unmaintainable by anyone but Nokia, who have terminated it
03:30.08*** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.166.132.55)
03:30.19luke-jryou can take Debian package sources, and build them for it
03:30.49*** join/#maemo maybeHere (cl@p4FE9DD16.dip.t-dialin.net)
03:33.26rbritoIs there any way of cross-compiling things without putting "alien" programs on my system? I would like, as much as possible, to use what the distributions have so far, and, if not available, upload them to Debian's repository...
03:35.47*** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at)
03:37.29rbritoluke-jr, Well, I bought it thinking that it were. :-(
03:37.55luke-jrrbrito: somehow N900 gets misrepresented a lot, without Nokia actually false advertising :/
03:38.01luke-jrwell, not just N900
03:38.03luke-jrall the earlier models too
03:38.34rbritoluke-jr, well, since I already bought it, I am willing to squeeze the most that I can from it.
03:38.35budfiveIt the closest you can get with phones you can buy, though
03:38.36budfiveby far
03:38.52luke-jrrbrito: want to use Gentoo with me? :P
03:39.03luke-jrbudfive: NITs are not phones, kthx
03:39.15budfivewhat's NIT?
03:39.37chxnokia internet tablet
03:39.44rbritoluke-jr, I bought it for the main purpose of being a smartphone, not an internet tablet. :-)
03:39.52chxhuh
03:39.53budfivehaha. ok
03:40.02luke-jrrbrito: then you're likely to be VERY disappointed :P
03:40.03chxit's an internet tablet with a phone crudely bolted on
03:40.14rbritoI actually don't even know what *is* an internet tablet...
03:40.20budfiveit's a phone :)
03:40.26luke-jrrbrito: all the earlier models don't even support GSM ;)
03:40.45rbritoluke-jr, yes, that I knew... But not much else.
03:41.18luke-jroh well, it works if you want a combination half-decent phone, half-decent camera, half-decent GPS :p
03:41.23rbritoAnyway, I am interested in writing some software for this thing. What would you people recommend for someone that already packages stuff for debian proper?
03:41.33luke-jrbut not if you want a proper smartphone, or quality camera, or useful GPS
03:41.46luke-jrrbrito: just use Qt and it should work :p
03:42.12rbritoluke-jr, I am interested to know about the peculiarities of the packaging...
03:42.16budfiverbrito: you can build packages in much the same way you'd build them for a real Debian box
03:42.37budfiverbrito: download the sdk from nokia, and you're set
03:42.40rbritobudfive, what about the recommended cross-compilation environment?
03:42.45luke-jrrbrito: the real problem is that Maemo is unmaintained, and someone needs to replace it
03:42.52budfiverbrito: yes. get that and it's stock enough
03:43.54rbritobudfive, how much of the SDK is already (approximately) available as packages?
03:44.23budfiverbrito: the sdk itself isn't a package as I recall. It uses scratchbox
03:45.14rbritobudfive, for instance, they say that I should download stuff using a script, but I see that Debian already has scratchbox. Is there anything different from Nokia's scratchbox from the Debian packaged version?
03:45.38rbritoI would like to avoid having as many packages as possible from places outside...
03:46.12budfiverbrito: yeah, I know how you feel. As I recall using the scratchbox from debian directly didn't work for me. Let me check. It's been a little while
03:46.39rbritobudfive, Ah, thanks for that clarification.
03:46.56rbritoI see that Debian has scratchbox 2.0 packaged.
03:47.05rbrito(Actually, the version is 2.0-3.1).
03:47.59rbritobudfive, what's the basic procedure for generating a package, once I have the software written? Just prepare my package as usual and build it with scratchbox?
03:48.08budfiverbrito: yes
03:48.24budfiverbrito: the "sdk" is scratchbox + debs of the core system
03:48.35budfiverbrito: so you build a package normally from inside scratchbox
03:49.08budfiverbrito: I don't have it installed anymore, so I'm looking on the web. Can't find it for some reason
03:49.09rbritobudfive, great. I wish that the instructions were as clear as you... :-)
03:51.11budfiverbrito: oh. I DO have it installed :)
03:51.12rbritobudfive, Does the SDK contain non-free software?
03:51.20budfiveyes
03:51.33rbritoI see that I would have to accept an EULA... :-(
03:51.36budfiverbrito: as others have said, it uses apt, dpkg, but it's NOT debian
03:51.39budfiveyes
03:51.42budfiveit's not ideal
03:51.45rbritoI would like to avoid that, as much as possible.
03:52.02*** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@port549.ds1-hvi.adsl.cybercity.dk)
03:52.12budfiveyou'll have to forfeit much of the stock functionality then
03:52.14rbritobudfive, Oh, I thought that it was an exaggeration of not being Debian. :-)
03:52.47rbritoI see... I think that I will just download it, then and have a dirty system. :-(
03:53.12budfiverbrito: it's not THAT dirty
03:53.15rbritoWhat do the non-free parts include? Anything essential for a basic "Hello, World" application?
03:53.17budfiveeverything goes into /scratchbox
03:53.30budfiveso it bypasses the package manager, but you still know where everything is
03:53.30rbritobudfive, Well, less bad.
03:53.33budfiveyes
03:53.39budfivehighly unideal
03:54.20budfiverbrito: the "normal" installation method of the sdk grabs a huge blob of packages from nokia. the blob contains some open and some not open things
03:54.40budfiverbrito: the stuff you need for a "hello world" is open, but you'll have to get it all yourself
03:54.58budfiverbrito: but you can always run stock debian or gentoo or whatever
03:55.15budfiverbrito: you'll lose much of the phone-ness of the device, though
03:55.52rbritobudfive, I see... :-( In my general workflow, I usually grab stuff through an approx cache, so that I can install the software in many computers that I have here.
03:56.17rbritoThe phone part for me is essential...
03:56.35budfiverbrito: yeah. you really should just grab the sdk to see for yourself what's open and what isn't
03:56.51rbritoI guess that I will cope with things and just grab that SDK.
03:57.10budfivesupposedly you can run FSO,SHR on the n900 if you want. You'll have a phone, but not a very nice one
03:57.11rbritoThanks for the clear answers that I could not find right from the sites, BTW.
03:57.39budfiverbrito: yeah. It's not as open as could be, but it's by far the closest you can get without rolling everything yourself
03:58.27rbritobudfive, Yes, I saw that the other options were much worse regarding openness... :-(
03:58.46budfiveever looked at the openmoko? :)
03:58.50rbritoAnd given that we have git repositories of some of the things, that's great.
03:59.08*** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a83-245-160-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
03:59.08*** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe)
03:59.08rbritobudfive, I tried to buy a Freerunner, but I couldn't find one here where I live.
03:59.25rbritoOh, a silly question: what does osso stand for? :-)
03:59.30budfiveno idea
04:00.14rbritoI reached the same conclusion. :-)
04:00.37rbritoOpen Source ...?
04:00.41rbrito:-)
04:00.59budfiverbrito: I gotta go. good luck
04:01.06rbritoOK, just installed xserver-xephyr.
04:01.16rbritobudfive, thank you so very much for your clear answers.
04:02.21*** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@dslb-094-216-255-189.pools.arcor-ip.net)
04:07.17*** part/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-76-175-234-46.socal.res.rr.com)
04:11.47*** join/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156)
04:11.52*** join/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-76-175-234-46.socal.res.rr.com)
04:13.32*** join/#maemo rysiek|pl (~quassel@bramapc-NAT.elka.pw.edu.pl)
04:16.41*** join/#maemo AntiSociaL (~root@unaffiliated/antisocial)
04:17.01*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@46.42.112.226)
04:19.50*** join/#maemo joeykrim (joeykrim@has.the.best.joeyconway.name)
04:20.24*** join/#maemo kaboom (62742f56@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.116.47.86)
04:20.43*** part/#maemo joeykrim (joeykrim@has.the.best.joeyconway.name)
04:21.01*** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@122.167.142.222)
04:22.37*** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@109.236.130.47)
04:23.41*** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-28-6.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
04:37.45*** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@109.236.130.47)
04:51.18*** part/#maemo AntiSociaL (~root@unaffiliated/antisocial)
04:59.50*** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80-186-26-21.elisa-mobile.fi)
05:01.15*** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-164-69.broadband.corbina.ru)
05:13.26DocScrutinizercan somebody explain to me the two fork() in there please http://paste.debian.net/108251/
05:13.41DocScrutinizerwhy two?
05:15.27DocScrutinizermy suspicion is in direction daemon, but I don't really see what it does rsp why it's needed
05:17.07*** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-094-216-254-124.pools.arcor-ip.net)
05:17.39DocScrutinizerI understand it forks and parent waits for child to exit. child forks again, then parent of that fork exits
05:18.07ds3I think the goal there is to make sure init owns the process
05:18.22DocScrutinizerooh, how does that happen?
05:18.51ds3if I read that correctly, it causes it to be considered orphaned which causes an assignment to init
05:19.08DocScrutinizeryeah, that'S probably it
05:19.10ds3normally, if you fork(), you have to wait() on it or it'll be stuck in the Z state
05:19.12DocScrutinizerthanks
05:31.56*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
05:32.00DocScrutinizerI missed to paste the setsid(); as last line. This makes it clear
05:33.26DocScrutinizeractually   setsid(); close(0); close(1); close(2); do_something()
05:38.29ds3yes, that'd make more sense
05:39.37DocScrutinizerthanks again
05:43.09DocScrutinizerjust one more question: which #include imports function 'event' ?
05:44.14DocScrutinizersched.h ?
05:49.51DocScrutinizeror is that a reserved word in c?
05:52.04DocScrutinizer(void)event;
05:54.31DocScrutinizerseems I can't find it in #include <errno.h> #include <fcntl.h> #include <sched.h> #include <signal.h> #include <unistd.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <sys/mman.h> #include <sys/wait.h>
05:58.18budfiverun only the preprocessor with 'gcc -E'. then look at the output to see where it came from
05:59.39DocScrutinizerhehe, yeah I'd do that if I were compiling this little progie, but I'm just reading source atm
06:00.15budfivegrepping my /usr/include give many matches :)
06:00.23DocScrutinizertooo many
06:00.36DocScrutinizeralready did that
06:02.05*** join/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@cpe-188-129-118-158.dynamic.amis.hr)
06:02.32*** part/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@cpe-188-129-118-158.dynamic.amis.hr)
06:03.15budfivecscope says.....
06:03.30budfivelots of various event variables, but no global "event" function
06:03.49budfiveyou suspect it's a system thing? not X or gui or anything?
06:04.03*** join/#maemo ab (~ab@a88-115-219-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
06:04.03*** join/#maemo ab (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)
06:09.48DocScrutinizervoid quit_loop(int event) {    running = 0;    (void)event; }
06:10.04DocScrutinizersignal-handler
06:10.28DocScrutinizerso I guess I know what it does, but I have no idea where it comes from
06:11.04budfiveDocScrutinizer: (void)event is a function call?
06:11.17DocScrutinizerlooks like to me
06:11.20budfiveerrrr
06:11.23budfivesure?
06:11.48budfivec or c++?
06:11.50DocScrutinizerwell, not exactly a function, as I'd expect event(); then
06:12.00DocScrutinizerc
06:12.34DocScrutinizercould be a #define as well
06:12.37DocScrutinizer:-S
06:12.48budfivenot a function call
06:13.25budfiveit's valid C by itself, but (void)event; does nothing
06:13.32budfiveyou need () to make it a function call
06:13.49DocScrutinizerit's most likely a call to scheduler to tell "I'm done" without really exiting the process
06:13.49budfiveif it was a macro, the "int event" argument would be expanded to something weird
06:14.13budfiveis the full source open? can I have a look if it is?
06:14.33DocScrutinizeroooooh
06:14.45DocScrutinizerit's a parameter - darn
06:14.52budfiveyah
06:14.59DocScrutinizerI should stop and take some chill time
06:15.18budfiveI can imagine some trickery where it's also a global something and the compiler can resolve the overload, but more likely it doesn't do anything
06:16.02*** join/#maemo Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez)
06:16.07DocScrutinizerit's probably the standard way to exit a signal-handler
06:16.28DocScrutinizercalback as parameter to a callback :-)
06:16.37budfive(void)event doesn't do anything
06:16.44budfivegive that snippet to a compiler
06:16.49budfiveit may as well not be there
06:16.57DocScrutinizerummm
06:16.59budfiveah
06:16.59budfiveno
06:17.01budfivei get it
06:17.11budfiveit's to prevent a "variable unused" warning
06:17.12budfive!
06:17.20fralshmm, wonder why http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fmms/ shows 992k downloads but adding "http://maemo.org/download-stats2/fetch.php?unixname=fmms&os=fremantle gives 1.1M
06:17.27DocScrutinizerwut?
06:17.34budfive(void)event doesn't do anything
06:17.49budfivebut without it the compiler would warn you that the "event" variable (argument to the function) isn't used
06:18.29budfivelook at the -Wunused parameters to gcc
06:22.56DocScrutinizerwait a minute (/me reading man 2 signal)  if ( signal(SIGTERM, quit_loop) == SIG_ERR )
06:23.14DocScrutinizerhttp://paste.debian.net/108254/
06:27.29budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ gcc -Wextra -Wall -o tst.o -c tst.c
06:27.30budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ md5sum tst.o
06:27.30budfivee2659ec7813dd12c84f260f514ad06e7  tst.o
06:27.30budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ perl -pi -e 's/\(void\)event//g' tst.c
06:27.30budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ gcc -Wextra -Wall -o tst.o -c tst.c
06:27.30budfivetst.c: In function ‘quit_loop’:
06:27.30budfivetst.c:38: warning: unused parameter ‘event’
06:27.31budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ md5sum tst.o
06:27.31budfivee2659ec7813dd12c84f260f514ad06e7  tst.o
06:27.32budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$
06:27.51budfiveI compile your file. then I remove that line and compile it again
06:28.04budfiveboth times the generated output is the same (identical md5 hashes)
06:28.11budfivebut without the (void)event, there's a warning
06:30.25DocScrutinizerheh, OK :-)
06:30.31DocScrutinizerthanks
06:35.54DocScrutinizerc is really friggin weird, you can write complete nonsense
06:36.26budfiveyep
06:36.32budfiveask the compiler when in doubt :)
06:37.03budfivealso for this particular instance, __attribute__((unused)) is much more appropriate, and less obscure
06:38.03DocScrutinizerwell, this seems to be a dirty hack anyway, even signal() is explicitly deprecated
06:38.21DocScrutinizerbtw it's from bootmenu, if you wonder
06:39.13DocScrutinizerbootmenu itself is similarly weird, the examples make no proper use of the bootmenu.d/* logic
06:39.17budfivesounds about right
06:44.25DocScrutinizeri.e. bootmenu.conf iterates over all the files in bootmenu.d/* to collect menu items. But the examples bootmenu.conf.N8x0.example which are supposed to go to this bootmenu.d/ directory don't use the index var $menu_count as in >>eval MENU_${menu_count}_NAME=\$ITEM_NAME<<, rather they use hardcoded MENU_2_NAME="Internal MMC card, partition 2, ext2"
06:49.22*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130)
06:51.31DocScrutinizerand backupmenu is using this bootmenu.d/backupmenu.conf to never return and instead drawing its own menu :-P
06:52.02DocScrutinizeran incredible mess
06:54.55DocScrutinizerand all this headache just to implement[2011-02-20 01:25:59] <DocScrutinizer> I mean, how hard can it be to quit the backup-menu process same why on pressing enter that it would when slide is closed   <korhojoa> DocScrutinizer, yeah. that would be nice
06:56.51DocScrutinizerat least I can understand now why robbiethe1st hasn't implemented this improvement-request yet :-D
07:01.32*** join/#maemo sx0n (~user@ttihfwgw.tieto.com)
07:02.38*** join/#maemo shinkamui (~kamui@ip174-73-7-43.no.no.cox.net)
07:02.47*** join/#maemo moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
07:05.34*** join/#maemo Natunen (nalle@213-186-248-75.bb.dnainternet.fi)
07:09.52*** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org)
07:11.43*** join/#maemo incar (~incar@60-241-66-237.static.tpgi.com.au)
07:25.08*** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
07:29.59*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-117-27.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
07:43.00*** join/#maemo RST38h (marat@wsip-174-79-166-19.ri.ri.cox.net)
07:45.11*** join/#maemo croppa_ (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net)
07:45.41*** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106)
07:47.52*** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~user@174-31-55-156.spkn.qwest.net)
07:48.43robbiethe1st:D I love this phone. 13 web pages, 15 windows, and it's still fairly snappy.
07:52.41togglesandroid?
07:52.46togglesor wp7?
07:53.44robbiethe1stMaemo, of course
07:53.48robbiethe1stsilly.
08:00.04*** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.3.46)
08:01.20*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.113)
08:02.26*** join/#maemo buntfalke (~nobody@unaffiliated/buntfalke)
08:13.35*** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@92.90.16.49)
08:15.57*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-123-17-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
08:19.57*** join/#maemo chinmaya_ (~quassel@122.171.17.54)
08:21.47*** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.81.226)
08:22.45*** join/#maemo Chiku (~Chiku01@pla13-4-88-178-111-93.fbx.proxad.net)
08:22.45*** join/#maemo Chiku (~Chiku01@unaffiliated/chiku)
08:23.45*** join/#maemo vcgomes (~vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com)
08:25.09*** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.166.82.80)
08:26.01*** join/#maemo WellMux (~mika@e82-103-229-216.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
08:26.52*** join/#maemo Pr0n (~rapeme@hpavc/pr0n)
08:27.08Pr0nhi
08:27.23lolcathi
08:27.51Pr0ni need some help with my nokia n900
08:27.57keriowho doesn't
08:28.18Pr0nlol
08:33.42DocScrutinizerNokia is publishing linux driver for moorestown:  https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/1/5/31 --- Meego device not based on OMAP?
08:34.12robbiethe1stPr0n: what's up?
08:34.28Pr0ntrying to get bluemaemo working
08:34.34Pr0nsays i need some packages
08:35.00robbiethe1stDevel's enabled, right?
08:35.05Pr0nwhats that
08:35.14Pr0nprobally not
08:36.57Pr0nefl-core , python2.5-efl-core , python2.5-ecore , python2.5-edbus , python2.5-evas , python2.5-edje
08:37.14Pr0nthats what it says are missing packages
08:37.51RST38hDoc: this may not be related to the upcoming device in any way
08:38.09RST38hDoc: Just to the work on Meego that they are supposedly doing with Intel
08:39.11*** part/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato)
08:39.56*** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28)
08:43.37budfivewait... the upcoming Meego device is NOT based on an Intel chip? I thought that was Intel's whole angle
08:44.03psycho_oreosupcoming meego device from whom? nokia?
08:44.31budfiveis there some other?
08:44.38*** join/#maemo me|kor (~melkor@88-134-30-112-dynip.superkabel.de)
08:44.44budfiveI haven't been paying very close attention
08:45.18*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.127)
08:45.47*** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@davyg.fr)
08:45.48slonopotamusX-Fade: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2011-February/ there are some troubles with curl :/ i think it needs to be removed
08:46.03psycho_oreosintel released their own tablet which is intel atom based, fujitsu will be releasing their netbook with meego, that's going to be atom based. nokia killed their own n9 which may run on atom processor but the devel work was ported to n900 as initial releases of n9 were arm based
08:46.14slonopotamusX-Fade: and no, i didn't reupload it
08:46.15psycho_oreoserr nokia killed their n9 hardware :p
08:47.08*** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@80-218-54-194.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:47.10budfivethey killed the n9? The main announcement they made said they will be releasing a meego something this year. That's not assumed to be the n9?
08:48.04psycho_oreosthey do intend to release a meego device but nobody knows the ramifications, nokia signed a deal to be microsoft's bitch
08:48.28psycho_oreosthat's old news
08:49.35budfiveyeah. sure.
08:52.38slonopotamushttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libnet-smtp-ssl-perl_1.01-2maemo1/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt any ideas what to do with it?
08:53.07*** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.138.138)
08:54.03*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com)
08:55.29*** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD283B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
08:59.23*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG)
09:18.31*** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-114.telpol.net.pl)
09:22.48*** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.221.14)
09:23.09*** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
09:25.56*** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@cs181145227.pp.htv.fi)
09:28.43*** join/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi)
09:45.36*** join/#maemo Per_n900 (~Per@81-226-118-105-no58.tbcn.telia.com)
09:46.58*** join/#maemo GNUtoo|laptop (~gnutoo@host68-143-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
09:49.52*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130)
09:53.14divanGuys, which WebOS games are perfectly playable on n900? I.e. doesn't require multitouch, etc. NFSU is the first example/
09:54.09*** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi)
09:56.48*** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@a91-155-187-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
09:56.48*** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa)
09:57.24*** join/#maemo tuho (~t@a91-153-38-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
10:10.08*** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
10:12.42*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-123-17-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
10:14.01*** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef3de00-234.dhcp.inet.fi)
10:22.28*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-123-17-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
10:25.50*** join/#maemo demute_ (~user@c80-216-34-161.bredband.comhem.se)
10:26.09jacekowskidivan: it's all in wiki
10:27.53sezuan_Is it possible to buy the games without a WebOS device?
10:28.16jacekowskiyeah, torrents
10:29.30sezuanthat's not the answer that I wanted to hear ;)
10:30.31psycho_oreoswell you asked for it :p
10:32.58sezuanthat's true.
10:35.52demute_I accidently removed the package mp-fremantle-pr, can someone please download it for me and send it? I will give you free google searches for the rest of your life
10:36.38psycho_oreosfree google search? lolwut
10:36.54demute_:)
10:38.20*** join/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@smtp.elizovotv.ru)
10:38.28*** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@46.162.221.80)
10:38.30psycho_oreoshttp://maemo.org/packages/view/mp-fremantle-generic-pr/
10:39.39demute_how could I miss that? thank you!
10:39.51jacekowskiyou can just apt-get it
10:40.42demute_jacekowski: it's not that simple
10:41.24psycho_oreosit actually is pretty simple
10:41.52psycho_oreosso now where my free google search for my entire lifetime? ;P
10:42.14psycho_oreoss/where/wheres/
10:42.15demute_psycho_oreos: here's your free search: htpp://www.gooogle.com
10:42.25psycho_oreosdemute_, lol fail
10:43.29psycho_oreosis so gonna bash.org that :p
10:43.57*** join/#maemo cos^ (cosmo@coffee.modeemi.fi)
10:43.59*** join/#maemo flux (flux@coffee.modeemi.fi)
10:44.07psycho_oreoshttp://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=mp-fremantle-pr
10:46.08*** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106)
10:47.13*** join/#maemo Guest16042 (~Aranel@78.169.236.13)
10:47.54demute_where the hell is the download button? ;)
10:49.09psycho_oreosisn't going to bother answering that because he got ripped off ;p
10:50.20demute_feels stupid but hey come on, has anyone else tried to remove that package? (dont)
10:51.28*** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-231-124-110-no126.tbcn.telia.com)
10:51.44psycho_oreoshas removed that package in favour of CSSU, hence mp-fremantle-community-pr
10:52.52*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@86-41-28-108-dynamic.b-ras2.dbn.dublin.eircom.net)
10:52.52*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2)
10:54.12*** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230)
11:02.00*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
11:08.11*** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@80-218-54-194.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:09.32*** join/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156)
11:10.41*** join/#maemo dschoepe (~dschoepe@unaffiliated/dschoepe)
11:15.16*** join/#maemo phryk (~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net)
11:15.30phrykhi there
11:16.56*** join/#maemo onen|openBmap (~quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.club-internet.fr)
11:17.35phryk/home/user/MyDocs gets mounted readonly, this is set in /etc/fstab (-rodir). I tried deleting that part and rebooting, but the system restores the old fstab...
11:18.25*** join/#maemo biston (~biston@212.101.240.147)
11:18.50trumeephryk, perhaps it need an fsck
11:19.52*** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq)
11:20.19demute_phryk: look in /etc/event.d/rcS-late, that file overwrites fstab
11:20.41bistonanybody here knows how wifi-switcher's popup is changed from interactive to passive ?
11:20.45*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)
11:20.51*** join/#maemo Bleadof (tarmo@dsl-jklbrasgw1-fe16fb00-79.dhcp.inet.fi)
11:21.14bistoni'm trying to do the same to ssh-switcher but it's the same command in both scripts wifi.sh and ssh-status.sh
11:21.39bistonprint_msg "SSH started" "OK" & print_msg "WLAN DISABLED" "OK"
11:21.48bistoni thought it was here where it's modified
11:25.21*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@86-41-28-108-dynamic.b-ras2.dbn.dublin.eircom.net)
11:25.21*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2)
11:25.44*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)
11:27.44*** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
11:28.43*** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.245.245)
11:28.53xDaReaperxHi is the Community SSU stable to install ?
11:29.03xDaReaperxi checked the Wiki , i was a bit confused
11:29.48Ken-YoungxDaReaperx, I think the official answer is no, but I've installed it and have had no problems (that haven't been fixed).
11:30.36Ken-YoungThe initial version messed up some keyboard shortcuts like cntrl+shift+P = screengrab, but that was fixed a white ago.
11:33.44*** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.245.245)
11:33.51*** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl)
11:34.59*** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.245.245)
11:40.54*** join/#maemo niala1 (~niala@2a01:e35:1386:4120:76f0:6dff:fe51:75c8)
11:41.35*** join/#maemo kontio (~kontio@unaffiliated/kontio)
11:43.29*** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.245.245)
11:50.12*** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.145.127.104)
11:52.24fralshappy bday lcuk! \o/
11:55.54*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (~fnoridans@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net)
11:56.28*** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-137.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
11:56.57*** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.245.245)
11:58.09*** join/#maemo Necc (~user@g9g39y8fhr.adsl.datanet.hu)
12:02.58*** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm)
12:05.49*** join/#maemo trem (~trem@mol92-1-81-57-136-23.fbx.proxad.net)
12:06.08*** join/#maemo ToJa92_ (~ToJa92@90-231-124-110-no126.tbcn.telia.com)
12:06.59*** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz)
12:08.13*** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal)
12:09.12*** join/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156)
12:12.29*** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@HSI-KBW-078-043-183-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
12:12.57*** join/#maemo mk8 (~torello@ip-212-141.sn1.eutelia.it)
12:13.01*** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au)
12:13.57jonwilhas run out of things worth reverse engineering
12:16.28lcukthanks frals \o/
12:16.40*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)
12:16.50lcukjonwil, then forward engineer some fixed and functionality into liqbase for me please :)
12:17.07jonwilwhat do you need? :P
12:17.42SpeedEviljonwil: What about the first level - simply replacing the little wifi widget with one that shows signal leve?
12:17.53lcukjonwil, I need most of the stuff to work
12:17.57lcukhas poor fingers
12:18.11jonwilI tried to reverse engineer the relavent bits of the wifi widget and got nowhere
12:18.18jonwildue to all the cruft that is libconnui
12:18.43lcukjonwil, on MeeGo, there is a component called connman
12:18.51lcukit does not support ad-hoc wifi
12:18.56lcukbut the lower levels do
12:19.08lcukthere has been an open bug about it since moblin days
12:19.14jonwilThats on MeeGo, not Maemo. Not going touching MeeGo at all :)
12:19.15lcukand brought into meego tracker
12:19.30lcukthats a shame, lots of r&d happening there :)
12:19.49SpeedEviljonwil: ah
12:20.46*** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.19.49)
12:20.49jonwilI was planning to reverse engineer the dialer app (at least anything external it talks to that isn't a GUI call or a basic system function) but I never got anywhere because its far too complex
12:21.09jonwileven the Notification app was too complex
12:21.22SpeedEvil:/
12:21.54*** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@host-94-248-200-220.kabelnet.hu)
12:22.19jonwilthe connectivity UI is too hard to reverse engineer (i.e. the status bar widgets, control panels etc etc etc)
12:22.48SpeedEvilAnnoying.
12:22.55lcukdoes not like reverse engineering and will just try to build stuff
12:23.25SpeedEvilI wonder what'd be involved in ripping out the connectivity stuff.
12:23.26jonwilEven the SMS libraries (libsms etc) proved too hard
12:23.40jonwildo you mean ripping out the CSD daemon and the cell stack
12:23.45jonwilor the ICD daemon and the internet bits
12:23.46SpeedEvilThe IP connectivity, and just using 'internet is up' and 'internet is down' hooks
12:23.48jonwilor both?
12:23.57SpeedEvilI suppose also too involved?
12:24.02jonwilso you mean replacing the ICD daemon?
12:24.07jonwilThat might be possible
12:24.07SpeedEvilyes
12:24.14jonwilfiguring out what talks to it
12:24.46SpeedEvilSo you can do stuff like have it connect through a VPN, and know it's connected, or tether backards, or ...
12:25.09jonwilSome of that could be done by writing new ICD network plugins AFAIK
12:25.16SpeedEvilhmm
12:27.06jonwilThe hardest part is going to be identifying what the icd daemon and its plugins expose to the upper layers
12:27.12Venemo_N900jonwil: what's the status of cbsms?
12:27.21jonwilgoing nowhere
12:27.37jonwilsee bug 8347 for the details of why
12:27.38povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available
12:27.41SpeedEvil:/
12:28.54jonwilAlso see bug 10870
12:28.55povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/10870 Open source libsms and libsms-utils
12:31.09jonwilso yeah replacing the ICD daemon is not at all easy
12:31.51jonwil<PROTECTED>
12:32.31jonwilI suspect the GPRS plugin would be one of the hard parts
12:32.35trumeehow can i use lxp injection driver on boot-up. I placed the module load script in /etc/event.d but lost the list of APs in the applet
12:32.35*** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-231-124-110-no126.tbcn.telia.com)
12:32.46jonwilfiguring out what it talks to in the CSD GPRS plugin
12:32.52jonwiland figuring out what it exposes to higher levels
12:33.15trumeeatm i have to manually load the wlan drivers after bootup
12:34.00trumeeand lxp drivers seem to give less choppiness for sip
12:34.30*** join/#maemo TheNewAndy (~andy@60-242-120-238.static.tpgi.com.au)
12:35.23*** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz)
12:35.26trumeePerhaps i should load the drivers after the applet which enumerates the AP has loaded
12:36.06*** join/#maemo chx_afk (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view)
12:37.56jonwilso yeah all the things I wanted to reverse engineer have hit brick walls
12:38.14lolcatWhy?
12:38.26jonwiltoo complex to reverse engineer
12:38.28jonwilat least for me
12:39.07jonwilmaybe an ARM Linux ASM guru might have more luck
12:39.15jonwilbut I have given up on most of these things for now
12:39.46jonwilIf http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant leads anywhere then maybe I will use anything comming out of that as a way forward
12:39.54jonwilto try and reverse engineer more stuff
12:41.33ruskiejonwil, you sure are optimistic...
12:41.54jonwilSomeone was going to push that through to the right people at Nokia
12:42.02jonwilI forget who off the top of my head
12:42.10*** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
12:42.20ruskieconsidering the great success this had in the past...
12:42.25Venemo_N900jonwil: I thought you had it working
12:42.40jonwilnope, I dont have Cell Broadcast working
12:42.42*** join/#maemo TheNewAndy (~andy@60-242-120-238.static.tpgi.com.au)
12:42.48jonwilI am able to dump the low level packets comming from the cellular modem
12:42.57jonwiland observe proper Cell Broadcast messages in those packets
12:43.15jonwilbut there is a bug inside libsms/csd-sms that prevents things from getting through the cell stack
12:43.33Venemo_N900jonwil: so what stops us from creating a cell broadcast displayer desktop widget for example?
12:43.35jonwilwell getting through the stack properly
12:43.59jonwilthe issue is that talking to the cell modem by bypassing the cell stack wont work
12:44.03*** join/#maemo apol_ (~apol@5.Red-79-153-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
12:45.29Venemo_N900so how did it work for you?
12:45.42jonwilI was dumping the data flow manually with tcpdump
12:45.48jonwiland getting a raw dump of data comming from the cell modem
12:45.55jonwilnot an option for real-world use
12:46.20*** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel)
12:46.21Venemo_N900mhm
12:46.24jonwilOur only option is to work WITH the CSD daemon
12:46.35jonwilwhich means we either need Nokia to help
12:46.47jonwilor we need someone with guru ARM ASM skills to step forward and help reverse engineer stuff
12:46.59jonwilespecially all the functions in libisi and elsewhere that need to be reverse engineered
12:48.05jonwili.e. figuring out how to call them
12:48.22*** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk)
12:48.52jonwilunfortunatly, ARM ASM gurus seem to be thin on the ground around here :P
12:49.27*** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
12:50.59jonwilAlso note that I do NOT intend to use any hacks to get this working such as binary patching the closed source library (or in-memory patching it)
12:51.18jonwilThose are hacks and are not the Right Way to do things :)
12:51.38*** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@84-75-177-123.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:54.07Venemo_N900jonwil: so find a Nokia employee who wants to leave the company because of "black friday" and worked on Maemo and has access to the code
12:55.50jonwilI dont particularly want to break the law either (and using code released by a Nokia employee without permission from Nokia breaks the law, copyright and probably also trade secrets also)
12:58.51psycho_oreostruth be told that in cases like these, nokia needs a big slap across its face for pissing off the maemo community. Granted, they may file up complaints/lawsuits if their rights were demolished
12:59.45jonwilI think really all the arguments for not open sourcing a fair whack more of Maemo have vanished (except for the argument about the time taken to do so)
12:59.49psycho_oreosthinks qwerty12 reverse engineered that fmtx thingy
13:00.08jonwilThere are still legitimate reasons not to open source some parts of the system
13:00.10jonwilincluding BME
13:00.38psycho_oreosthe irony is that many owners are facing their devices soon to be out of warranty
13:00.45*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-123-17-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
13:01.10psycho_oreosthat and when things break without much hope, they are left inevitably to either sell or throw it away
13:01.16jonwilbut all the reasons for not open sourcing, say, the cellular stack or the internet connectivity daemon or any number of other bits of middle-ware have all gone away now IMO
13:01.52*** join/#maemo MaKa (3b5c14b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.92.20.185)
13:02.24MaKaIs there any way to restore deleted files or folders in maemo?
13:02.51psycho_oreosthere are testdisk and the like
13:03.25MaKabut i don't fine that package in devel
13:03.29MaKaany idea?
13:04.15psycho_oreosif you haven't got it installed and the files you want to recover sits inside the rootfs or /home/user, your chances may become very minimal
13:04.47psycho_oreosespecially rootfs
13:05.00MaKai deleted the folder espeak inside /opt which was being used by mstardict
13:05.56MaKathough i have now reinstalled all these mstardict,qstardict,espeak and espeak caller,i still cant use the mstardict
13:06.33MaKaThe error being shown is failed to load espeak-data
13:07.08psycho_oreosunfortunately /opt is bind to /home/user. You might be able to umount /home/user in theory and then dd that partition.
13:07.36psycho_oreosso you've accidentally deleted the files and directories and you've tried to reinstall those?
13:08.11MaKayeah,absolutely..
13:08.18psycho_oreosfacepalms
13:08.31MaKa:P
13:09.09MaKathe thing is before i deleted the directory,the espeak installation was removed..
13:09.38MaKaBut still i cud see the direcftory inside opt so i tried to free up some space..
13:10.41psycho_oreosconsider the chance of recovering deleted files very very slim
13:10.47MaKa:(
13:11.01psycho_oreosread what file recovery is supposed to do
13:11.13MaKabut now i re installed all the utilities.. but no luck..
13:11.33psycho_oreosindeed, now go read what file recovery actually does
13:12.04MaKai could see the folder /opt/espeak/data been created newly. but there is not phontab file/folder in it..
13:12.18*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com)
13:12.37MaKayeah will do that..
13:16.23MaKawhere can i find the working version of advanced power monitor?
13:17.12MaKaI find the one in repo is not working and it just is of 14kb size which seems to be weird..
13:18.57psycho_oreosits supposed to be working, if not then you can try reinstalling it which should bring the battery icon display up
13:19.40*** join/#maemo ab (~ab@a88-115-219-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
13:19.40*** join/#maemo ab (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)
13:21.29*** join/#maemo booiiing|clone (~booiiing@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net)
13:21.56*** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
13:23.19*** join/#maemo The_Fellow (~spider1@62.219.129.123)
13:29.59*** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod)
13:38.17*** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net)
13:40.21*** join/#maemo zeltak (~zeltak@c-71-232-79-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
13:41.04*** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi)
13:45.48*** join/#maemo lucent (eshattow@Ariel.Atlantica.US.TO)
13:48.11*** join/#maemo qurk__ (~qurk@99.60.134.56)
13:50.05*** join/#maemo fwix (~user@APointe-a-Pitre-103-1-6-70.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr)
13:52.22*** join/#maemo user (~user@ti0009a380-dhcp0976.bb.online.no)
13:52.51fwixhello
13:53.13fwixI need a little help to create a .deb package
13:53.55fwixI've generate tar.gz using py2deb
13:54.13fwixand installed sdk on my station (debian)
13:55.17fwixwhat have I to do now to generate on my station a .deb from the files generated on my n900 ?
13:55.52*** join/#maemo Pavel (~pavel@pool-173-75-5-189.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net)
13:57.49*** join/#maemo tuho (~t@a91-153-38-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
13:57.53*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com)
13:58.36RST38hWell. Moo.
13:59.56pupnik_mm
14:00.07LjLi don't suppose anyone has GeoClue packages that work under OS2008 (given there are for OS2007)?
14:02.58*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com)
14:03.46*** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@2001:470:d2ad:1:4a5b:39ff:fe7d:1623)
14:04.57*** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.94.230)
14:20.18*** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~chewtoy@c80-216-56-179.bredband.comhem.se)
14:29.53pupnikthe e71 is still a great phne
14:32.04*** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@122.167.155.13)
14:38.50trxhow can i check which packages are available to autobuilder?
14:41.57*** join/#maemo khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-100-72.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr)
14:48.00*** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-153-26.pool.telenor.hu)
14:48.04*** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@adsl-93-51-253.owb.bellsouth.net)
14:48.38Venemo_N900hi
14:49.10Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: could you please refresh my memory about the keyboard lights? (communi doesn't keep logs :( )
14:54.03*** join/#maemo petteri (petteri@xob.kapsi.fi)
14:54.37MohammadAGVenemo_N900, what about them?
14:54.56Venemo_N900MohammadAG: how to turn them off from the command line
14:55.15Venemo_N900MohammadAG: DocScrutinizer told me on my previous train journey
14:55.51MohammadAGumm
14:56.46MohammadAGfor x in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb$x/brightness; done
14:56.48MohammadAGI guess
14:57.07Venemo_N900btw, I've just noticed that the slider of my N900 became twisted :(
14:57.39MohammadAGyou may want to disable engine3
14:58.11MohammadAGecho disabled > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode
14:58.43Venemo_N900what's that?
15:00.46*** join/#maemo ZZzzZzzz1 (~ZZzzZzzz@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-36-86.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr)
15:01.25MohammadAGthe keyboard lights engine
15:01.39Venemo_N900oh.
15:01.40MohammadAG<PROTECTED>
15:01.40Venemo_N900ok
15:02.05Venemo_N900could you please pastebin this?
15:02.15MohammadAGremember that mce will turn on the engine everytime the screen's locked, so without a daemon, it's impossible to keep it off
15:02.27Venemo_N900np
15:02.57Venemo_N900last time I just modprobe -r'd the leds-whatever module
15:03.01MohammadAGhttp://pastebin.com/FA5SRAB3
15:03.05MohammadAGah
15:03.07MohammadAGsec
15:03.26MohammadAGleds-lp5523
15:03.37MohammadAGthat will also disable the RGB light
15:03.44*** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230)
15:05.25Venemo_N900yeah
15:05.54Venemo_N900thanks MohammadAG
15:06.23MohammadAGyw
15:09.28*** join/#maemo The_Fellow2 (~spider1@62.219.129.123)
15:09.44LjLthere isn't a public build facility for Maemo so i don't have to install the huge SDK to compile something, is there? :P
15:10.27alteregoLjL: extras-devel ?
15:10.44Venemo_N900LjL: it isn't that bad.
15:11.25Venemo_N900LjL: you could try the autobuilder, but for efficient work I'd definitely recommend installing the sdk
15:11.33LjLalterego: stuff is built for you there? any hard requisites to apply?
15:12.05LjLVenemo_N900: well right now i'd simply like to try compiling Groove, a N900 app, for OS2008 (which should be doable since it has no particular dependencies)
15:12.17Venemo_N900LjL: what's your problem with the sdk?
15:12.19alteregoLjL: it needs to have debian packaging as part of it.
15:12.33LjLVenemo_N900: that scratchbox alone requires more than 1gb. i currently don't have 1gb free :P
15:13.03Venemo_N900LjL: lol
15:13.48Venemo_N900LjL: well I guess it was quick for me because I already had Scratchbox from the the Maemo 5 SDK
15:14.37LjLoh well i'll try to find things to delete :P
15:14.39*** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl)
15:15.29LjLVenemo_N900, by the way, the latest OS2008 version of Puzzle Master did something strange for me... the first time i ran it, everything locked up for a while and eventually complainted i was out of memory (or storage, not sure which one the dialog actually meant). subsequent times it worked alright, though.
15:17.21*** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28)
15:18.06Venemo_N900LjL: interesting, it didn't happen to anyone else (that I know of)
15:18.46Venemo_N900LjL: puzzle-master doesn't use any storage besides the size of the executable and the settings file
15:19.21LjLi suspect it was really about the RAM. i conjectured maybe you were doing some kind of one-time initialization that took up a bit of resources...
15:22.52*** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p4FC2339F.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:25.31*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)
15:26.05*** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@92.90.16.49)
15:29.58*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)
15:31.11*** join/#maemo dschoepe (~dschoepe@unaffiliated/dschoepe)
15:32.27*** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93-35-147-125.ip55.fastwebnet.it)
15:32.37*** join/#maemo timeless (58730824@firefox/developer/timeless)
15:34.02*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143)
15:34.27*** join/#maemo jkyro (~jasu@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe23f900-77.dhcp.inet.fi)
15:34.28alteregoHeh, LG are releasing phones with a "facebook" buttong.
15:34.30alteregoWoof
15:34.50pupnikbl<h
15:37.51Venemo_N900LjL: puzzle-master uses only as much memory as your image of choice needs at 800x480 :)
15:38.02Venemo_N900LjL: plus the GUI of course
15:38.32alteregoI've managed to do some huge optimization with my OpenGL and Qt UI hybrid work :)
15:38.51*** join/#maemo Flipi (bnc@kann.nicht.ohne.dj-flipi.de)
15:39.22Venemo_N900alterego: yeah, puzzle-master also uses 3D accel on the N900
15:39.56Venemo_N900alterego: however LjL talked about the N8x0 version which obviously doesn't use opengl
15:40.06alteregoM'hmm
15:40.11alteregoI was just saying :)
15:40.23Venemo_N900:)
15:40.29MohammadAGalterego, any progress on the video window? :p
15:40.42Venemo_N900using the gpu frees up lots of cpu resources
15:41.01Venemo_N900however interestingly, some of the stuff that puzzle-master does are actually slower on the gpu :(
15:41.48alteregoMaybe you're doing it wrong :P
15:41.53alteregoWhat things in particular?
15:41.55Venemo_N900I managed to optimize it lots
15:42.13Venemo_N900but the drop shadow effect seems to have a huge perf impact
15:42.27alteregoHrm, how are you doing it?
15:42.51Venemo_N900graphicsItem->setEffect()
15:43.09alteregoHrm
15:43.11alteregoInteresting.
15:43.30Venemo_N900alterego: I read a performance benchmark from rasterman
15:43.31*** join/#maemo CyZooNiC (~CyZooNiC@c-82-192-237-13.customer.ggaweb.ch)
15:43.52*** part/#maemo CyZooNiC (~CyZooNiC@c-82-192-237-13.customer.ggaweb.ch)
15:43.57Venemo_N900it seems that in alpha blending and such things, the GPU performs a LOT slower
15:44.28alteregoHrm
15:45.12Venemo_N900http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=News
15:45.22RST38h<yawn>
15:45.34Venemo_N900search on this page for "image data argb" and "image blend"
15:45.35RST38hSo, anything new and exciting?
15:46.04Venemo_N900RST38h: try the new version of puzzle-master
15:46.27MohammadAGRST38h, new cat video on youtube OMGZ
15:47.24RST38hMohammad: lol yeah
15:47.31RST38hVenemo: Screenshots? =)
15:48.37Venemo_N900RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67139
15:49.02RST38haha, found it
15:49.19RST38hwhy not make those pieces puzzle-shaped though? =)
15:49.32MohammadAGRST38h, just wondering, ever considered one-click URL opening?
15:49.48MohammadAGinstead of tap n hold + click context menu
15:49.58Venemo_N900RST38h: it is planned :) but I haven't had the time to implement yet
15:50.16RST38hMohammad: Yea, I have been thinking of this
15:50.54RST38hMohammad: BUT, on the other hand, there is a plenty of use cases when you just want to copy damn url, rather than open it (example: you hate MicroB performance and would like to copy URL to Opera)
15:51.37Venemo_N900RST38h: then set opera as the default browser with browser switchboard
15:52.22MohammadAGRST38h, well, keep tap-n-hold to show the context menu
15:52.38MohammadAGbut use one click for quick opening
15:52.43RST38hAh
15:52.52timelessone click to navigate is actually a really bad thing in mobile
15:53.01timelesssince on average you don't want to click on the thing you hit :(
15:53.08RST38his not sure how to make this work in XChat
15:53.12Venemo_N900timeless: :P
15:53.27RST38hthat too, but still it is a valid use case
15:53.27timelessVenemo_N900: i'm not kidding :(
15:53.39MohammadAGdoesn't gtk have clicked() and hold() signals?
15:53.45MohammadAGor whatever they're called
15:54.18Venemo_N900timeless: on my part, some practice could make this better :)
15:54.25timelessno
15:54.29RST38hno longer remember: I study gtk onstrictly need-to-know basis
15:54.47alteregoI've sort of given up on Gtk in favour of Qt
15:54.55MohammadAGwell, qwerty12 had something like that in simple-brightness-applet
15:55.02Venemo_N900timeless: I mean, after using N900 for a year, the number of my accidental click are reduced to 0
15:55.06alteregoWhich is a shame, because gnome tech is more widespread
15:55.07MohammadAGtap-and-hold I think
15:55.15timelessVenemo_N900: really?
15:55.40MohammadAGI only click accidentally on capacitive screens
15:55.46Venemo_N900timeless: well maybe not 0, but I very rarely click something I don't wanna click
15:55.52MohammadAGwell, except the iPhone keyboard
15:56.10Venemo_N900I don't use onscreen keyboards
15:56.53Venemo_N900I haven't seen a virtual keyboard that doesn't suck yet
15:57.00MohammadAGiPhone
15:57.05MohammadAGtry it
15:57.10MohammadAGthe keyboard is epic
15:57.16Venemo_N900iPhone? never! ever!
15:57.27MohammadAGthe keyboard, not the OS
15:57.55MohammadAGi don't typo on it
15:58.01MohammadAGautocorrect sucks though
15:58.28Venemo_N900ok. how do I try iPhone keyboard without iPhone os?
15:59.15MohammadAGtry it on a friend's device :p
15:59.38Venemo_N900I don't have friends who have an iphone :(
15:59.52Venemo_N900anyway, swype seems quite okay to me; I've never had the chance to try it yet though
16:00.16MohammadAGI'm not sure I can use swype
16:00.28MohammadAGi always find myself clicking instead of swyping
16:00.35Venemo_N900mhm
16:00.40MohammadAGswiping isn't natural to me
16:00.48Venemo_N900yet?
16:00.49MohammadAG(even though it's faster)
16:00.50*** join/#maemo skython (~Sky@p5B223FD9.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:01.08Venemo_N900until a year ago, touchscreens weren't natural to me :)
16:01.19MohammadAGheh
16:01.35MohammadAGI had a pocket PC years ago (6680 times)
16:01.43Venemo_N900I didn't
16:01.53Venemo_N900N900 is my first touchscreen device
16:02.01MohammadAGo_O
16:02.16MohammadAGthe N97 was my first TS phone
16:02.50Venemo_N900actually N900 was the first TS device on the market which I didn't find a waste of money
16:02.58MohammadAGheh
16:03.13Venemo_N900yea, you told me how much you disliked the N97
16:03.52Venemo_N900I actually kinda liked the exterior of the original N97. the os, not so much
16:05.23cehtehwonders why nokia not just continues to build nice hardware and then offers the choice for the os to the customer .. android, meego, symbian, wm7 ...
16:05.34*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)
16:05.48MohammadAGindeed
16:05.57MohammadAGI'd like an N9 with MeeGo 1.1
16:05.58Venemo_N900cehteh: +1
16:06.01MohammadAGeven though 1.1 sucks
16:06.10Venemo_N900MohammadAG: 1.1 sux badly
16:06.13cehtehmaybe some OS'es could be marked as "unsupported" .. like wm7 :P
16:06.22Venemo_N900hehe
16:06.52*** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@95.73.167.250)
16:06.53cehtehwell and not evey os has to be available for every phone .. just as long maintaining drivers is feasible
16:07.08RST38hwould like N9 with Harmattan. No need for Meego.
16:07.10MohammadAGand it'll continue to suck so long there's no hardware to develop on
16:07.27MohammadAGHarmattan works fine for me too
16:07.29MohammadAGdeb ftw!
16:07.30cehteh(but on the other side, building hardware which requires less specialized and maintenance intensive drivers would be a pro to)
16:07.53RST38hFor all I can see, this dive into Meego craze has been a plot by Symbian Nokians to keep Maemo from succeeding
16:08.11MohammadAGheh
16:08.11RST38hMohammad: deb, rpm, who cares
16:08.13Venemo_N900MohammadAG: until MeeGo doesn't have support for 1) ARM power management 2) proper phone calls well until then it's really just a joke
16:08.20*** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@85-238-125-96.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua)
16:08.27MohammadAGVenemo_N900, you can't do either without devs
16:08.31cehtehanyways ... i dont care, i will not buy a nokia phone because its a nokia phone .. my next phone has to be as free as the n900 *at least* .. no matter who builds it
16:08.33timelessVenemo_N900: you used too many negatives
16:08.41timeless'until' + 'doesn't'
16:08.43RST38hMohammad: But the switch to Meego took resources from Harmattan and didnotproduce any tangible result
16:08.51Venemo_N900actually I find rpm to be more advantageous for mobiles
16:08.53alteregoI don't see how you can call it a joke.
16:08.57timelessRST38h: sure it did, we got delays
16:08.59alteregoIt's under development ffs :P
16:09.01timelessthose were tangible
16:09.06MohammadAGit's not a joke
16:09.10MohammadAGit lacks devs
16:09.12timelessis serious
16:09.18MohammadAGwhy? cause it lacks a device
16:09.24timelessVenemo_N900: sadly we aren't promising rpm :)
16:09.38RST38hRPM has an advantage if you are a commercial app developer
16:09.44korhojoahow so?
16:09.45timelessRST38h: also, meego didn't really get much of our resources
16:09.57timelessa small number of people were assigned to look at or track meego
16:09.59*** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@davyg.fr)
16:10.00RST38hkorhojoa: Apparently you can distribute encrypted RPMs
16:10.09timelessthe rest continued to work on maemo6^Wmeego-like
16:10.14RST38hCannotdo the same with DEBs without jumping through some weird loops
16:10.17korhojoaencrypted rpm:s? whut
16:10.30Venemo_N900timeless, RST38h: I find deltaRPM support the reason why rpm is good for mobiles
16:10.37MohammadAGi fear work on maemo 6 is kept on a git server running on /dev/null
16:10.45korhojoacan't you just stick a deb in a encrypted archive?
16:10.47timelessVenemo_N900: doesn't .deb have a delta format?
16:10.49Venemo_N900MohammadAG: :D
16:10.57timelessi've never seen it used, but iirc it does have some vague support for something
16:10.59RST38hVenemo: Well, maybe, although I do not have any problems with package sizes, WiFi is free.
16:11.06Venemo_N900timeless: have you seen it action?
16:11.11*** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5FEC.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:11.11timelessno :)
16:11.20timelessRST38h: i'm often unable to get free wifi :(
16:11.23korhojoatimeless: well, use scripts in it
16:11.28Venemo_N900timeless: I heard about it, but then why don't you use it on Maemo?
16:11.30*** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.3.46)
16:11.44Venemo_N900timeless: delta downloads are a big win for bandwidth
16:11.54RST38htimeless: Neither am I, but I usually install stuff when at homeor at work
16:12.03RST38hFree wifi in both cases
16:12.09timelessVenemo_N900: the people who designed the update process were um.. handcuffed
16:12.37korhojoatimeless: ? :D
16:12.39timelessand ham was designed as a *simple-minded* ui
16:12.41Venemo_N900timeless: when I download updates for Fedora, the delta support usually spares me 90% of the bandwidth
16:12.52MohammadAGHAM's UI is fine
16:12.52*** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl)
16:12.56ZogGwhaaaat?
16:12.57MohammadAGthe backend isn't
16:13.06RST38hwonders if HAM has been designed at all
16:13.09timelessMohammadAG: yeah, i mean the middle/backend
16:13.14*** join/#maemo pieter_ (~pieter@91.182.214.242)
16:13.15timelessRST38h: technically it was
16:13.16Venemo_N900timeless: no need to mention such a feature in the gui.
16:13.19ZogGham is awesome
16:13.24ZogGu[pdates are awesome
16:13.27ZogGlife are awesome
16:13.30ZogGpeople are pigs
16:13.31RST38hwith some hash browns, yes
16:13.33MohammadAGis*
16:13.43timelessZogG: life is generally singular or a mass noun (singular). so life <is>
16:13.59korhojoaZogG: you forgot pigs aren't always people though
16:14.03MohammadAGtimeless, "is*" is shorter
16:14.05ZogGlife is
16:14.06timelessVenemo_N900: plus testing becomes more complicated
16:14.14pieter_hey guys godda problem  - translation not working anymore, clock, calendar..
16:14.17RST38hprocmails the whole hinet.net to /dev/null
16:14.30ZogGMohammadAG, not searching for shortcuts
16:14.34timelesspieter_: what locale are you using?
16:14.39ZogGtimeless, i don't give a f... i'm russian
16:14.42Venemo_N900timeless: Red Hat, a smaller company than you, managed to get it working, so you could too.
16:14.50ZogGin soviet russian english speaks you
16:14.52timelessVenemo_N900: err
16:15.05ZogGpieter_, use english
16:15.11ZogGtranslations are baaaad
16:15.23pieter_Worked fine (dutch)
16:15.27*** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.116)
16:15.28pieter_but i might have left my debian sqeeze repo on while installing other things
16:15.41Venemo_N900timeless: please tell us one thing (if you can). is there still some device that's coming from you guys with Harmattan onboard?
16:15.48RST38hMeanwhile: Google's Native Client almost 'ready for takeoff,' ready to make ActiveX look visionary
16:15.50*** join/#maemo mpoirier (~quassel@S0106002369de4dac.cg.shawcable.net)
16:15.53ZogGpieter_ dutch what country dutch?
16:15.58timelessredhat has ~3200 employees
16:16.02timelessmaemo never had that many
16:16.07pieter_now clock says wdgt_va_24h_time
16:16.12pieter_no belgium
16:16.23RST38hhopes Maemo/Meego Devices survive for another 3-9 months
16:16.26timelessVenemo_N900: there was still a harmattan project/program as of friday
16:16.29Venemo_N900timeless: oh, sorry
16:16.36BCMMRST38h: why 3-9 months?
16:16.44Venemo_N900timeless: that's good to hear :)
16:17.00RST38hBCMM: Because there is a bigprobability Elop will be fired by New Year
16:17.18timelessRST38h: by whom?
16:17.22ZogGBCMM, funtoo is fun. though i have a question how do i make gentoo portage to use git?
16:17.22BCMMRST38h: he has been from nearly everywhere else, right?
16:17.29MohammadAGfired?
16:17.37MohammadAGI'd rather hear he's fired at
16:17.38RST38htimeless: the board, the shareholders, who cares?the right question is WHY
16:17.38BCMMZogG: dunno, i use Gentoo
16:17.39pieter_ZogG: trying to figure out what package is causing this and reinstall it
16:17.43timelessRST38h: there's aa good writeup you should read
16:17.45BCMMZogG: i think git portage is a funtoo-only thing
16:17.47pieter_can you give me a hint?
16:17.58ZogGBCMM i was talking about gentoo
16:18.05Venemo_N900timeless: another question is, can we expect Nokia to give the N900's modem's drivers/specs to the MeeGo project?
16:18.09ZogGBCMM, i like portage in funtoo more
16:18.10BCMMZogG: oh. i think the answer is to use funtoo...
16:18.16*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-119-177.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
16:18.30RST38hOnce he fails to deliver a WP7 device by christmas,OR it does not sell in the US, the shareholders will start getting jittery
16:18.34ZogGBCMM, i do on funtoo
16:19.09timelessRST38h: http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/
16:19.10Venemo_N900RST38h: let's hope you are right
16:19.13timelesswell worth a read
16:19.24BCMMZogG: i think mainstream portage doesn't have git sync capability
16:19.28RST38hThey will get especially jittery if he fails to produce any semi-likeable Symbian/Maemo/etc devices in a year
16:19.42BCMMZogG: also, there may not be a git server for regular portage
16:19.42ZogGit has but not by default i think
16:19.51timelessRST38h: i'm pretty confident that his arrangement w/ the board/shareholders gives him a bit over  a year
16:20.16timelessno reasonable person could expect a real turnaround in under a year
16:20.24timelessand even a year is pushing it
16:20.35Venemo_N900agreed
16:20.38timelessVenemo_N900: i don't know anything about hardware
16:20.46timelessand i wouldn't play an expectations game
16:20.56Venemo_N900timeless: driver is software, not hw.
16:21.06RST38htimeless: they arenot reasonable people. Hell mosto f them are not even people!
16:21.25RST38htimeless: reasonable people would never let this crap happen, not without somekind of plan B
16:21.38BCMMRST38h: in any case, Elop has a track record of screwing stuff up such that it stays screwed-up when he's gone
16:21.43timelessRST38h: there is a plan b
16:21.49timelessand it's quite obvious
16:21.50BCMMthat was a joke...
16:21.53RST38hBCMM: Yes, he is responsible for Office ribbons:)
16:21.54Venemo_N900timeless: just asking because the MeeGo guys said that the mess around the telephony features are because Nokia didn't provide them drivers nor specs
16:22.00RST38htimeless: And which one is it?
16:22.01BCMM(well, "nokiaplanb" was
16:22.08BCMMRST38h: really? wow.
16:22.14timelessRST38h: i don't think it's for me to say, but it is obvious
16:22.27RST38htimeless: You can /msg if you wish
16:22.28timelessRST38h: just read 3 articles from the site i linked
16:22.41*** join/#maemo Gadgetoid (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
16:22.43RST38hI think I know what it is, but it is just a continuation of plan A to me
16:22.58*** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian)
16:23.37*** join/#maemo janemba (~cacao@unaffiliated/janemba)
16:23.49RST38hThis guy is too chatty for me, can't read this much
16:25.05korhojoa:D
16:25.53timelesshe's still worth the read, even w/ the dozens of typos
16:27.07SpeedEvilHmm. Plan B. Beos?
16:27.58Venemo_N900:D
16:29.39*** join/#maemo marainein (~marainein@220-253-23-28.VIC.netspace.net.au)
16:32.03kerionokiaplank ftw
16:32.21*** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-236-233-no126.tbcn.telia.com)
16:33.20RST38hAfaik, what is assumed to be a real plan B is actually bad for shareholders
16:33.37RST38hAlthough I may be wrong, not a Wall Street regular
16:34.07RST38hSo, no, in the eyes of shareholders that will most likely still be a fuckup =(
16:34.35*** join/#maemo marienz_ (~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz)
16:35.07alteregoI thought this was already plan b
16:35.10*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)
16:35.11alteregoPlan A was MeeGo
16:35.55Venemo_N900kerio: nokiaplane was my favourite
16:36.11pieter_okay getting desperate here
16:36.41*** join/#maemo perolsen (~perolsen@ti0017a380-1018.bb.online.no)
16:36.55pieter_if i open a windows the language is fine but changes to some sort of system language after a second
16:37.22pieter_and the calendar doesn't work
16:37.32*** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-212.dynamic.ngi.it)
16:38.12pieter_help
16:39.39Venemo_N900pieter_: I recommend using the word 'please'
16:39.47Venemo_N900pieter_: back up all your data and reflash your device
16:39.55Venemo_N900~flashing
16:39.55infoboti heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
16:40.12*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143)
16:40.24Venemo_N900pieter_: this should help you
16:40.29pieter_I don't understand reflash?
16:40.45pieter_oh i'll take a look at that
16:41.20pieter_I think the word thanks goes
16:41.21*** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-174-111-058-051.triad.res.rr.com)
16:41.28pieter_I mean thanks
16:42.52Venemo_N900pieter_: reflash means resetting everything in your device, basically
16:43.28pieter_I understand
16:46.17*** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@95.72.183.169)
16:46.45pieter_So basicly your using the computer to flash the N900
16:46.52pieter_does it take a while?
16:47.38Venemo_N900pieter_: yes. back up your data before doing it
16:47.48Venemo_N900MohammadAG: your script doesn't work
16:48.15Venemo_N900MohammadAG: it only turns of the leds for some keys, not all
16:48.23keriopieter_: it takes like 2 minutes
16:48.58RST38hBombs: The cheaper the movie, the more probable it is that it will be an atomic bomb.
16:50.48Venemo_N900MohammadAG: 'modprobe -r leds-lp5523' then 'modprobe leds-lp5523' actually did turn it off
16:51.07RST38hPhones: All have the same ringtone. Always break when the main character absolutely needs to make a call.
16:51.52Venemo_N900RST38h: no, because Dr. House did set a different ringtone for his team
16:52.13RST38hComputers: The display will always blow up when computer breaks.
16:52.24Venemo_N900RST38h: lol
16:54.53*** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)
16:55.46RST38hTV: When the main character is near a TV, the set will always be showing either a) young couple making love in a bed or b) perfect family with two children having lunch
16:55.50*** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
16:56.18Venemo_N900hehe
16:57.02*** join/#maemo beford (~0o0o0@unaffiliated/beford)
16:57.09RST38hScientific Equipment: Will *always* blow up, eventually, even if it is just an electron microscope.
16:58.31RST38hTracking Devices: Track subjects with <1m precision and show them with red blinking dots. Sometimes, showthe complete 3D building structure as well.
16:59.23pieter_what verion to use (flash image) i'm in belgium
17:00.07Venemo_N900pieter_: always use global
17:05.51*** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.126.197.143)
17:05.52pieter_Use Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 ?  or latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900?
17:08.48DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: edit /etc/mce/mce.ini, delete the keypad reference in modules= line
17:09.00DocScrutinizerstop, start mce
17:10.01DocScrutinizeror - my suggestion - set the keypad timeout down to 1s, even try 0s
17:11.32*** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net)
17:11.32*** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre)
17:11.59DocScrutinizeror rename /usr/share/mce/modules/keypad.so o whatever it's called, restart mce
17:13.13timelesspieter_: you should use the latest global release
17:13.24timelessand then consider whether you want to try community ssu
17:13.43pieter_oi you just stopped me
17:14.22pieter_PR 1.3 instead of OS2009
17:16.09*** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
17:18.17*** join/#maemo jakdarippa (~jakdaripp@71-223-124-184.phnx.qwest.net)
17:25.52*** join/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156)
17:26.24*** join/#maemo joppu1 (~joppu@cs184129.pp.htv.fi)
17:26.49*** join/#maemo niala1 (~niala@2a01:e35:1386:4120:76f0:6dff:fe51:75c8)
17:31.35*** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik)
17:32.37*** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at)
17:36.42*** join/#maemo pieter_ (~pieter@91.182.214.242)
17:37.28*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com)
17:42.56*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-119-177.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
17:46.22*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)
17:46.40*** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.166.82.80)
17:50.50*** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@HSI-KBW-078-043-183-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
17:52.27*** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro)
17:53.43*** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@95.73.25.143)
17:54.00*** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~quassel@83.229.6.19)
17:54.39DocScrutinizercould somebody good at git and kernel patches etc please check http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=951162#post951162 and https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/1/5/31 thread&patches, and tell me if I'm right with my conclusions and esp if there's ANY hint ANYWHERE about what particular type of hw platform and controller this patch is meant for. Thanks!
17:54.52DocScrutinizermoin javispedro
17:55.30javispedromorning
17:56.42javispedroDocScrutinizer: that driver seems to expect someone else providing the functions to read/write regs
17:56.51DocScrutinizeryes
17:57.41*** join/#maemo biston (~biston@212.101.241.83)
17:57.56DocScrutinizerand only faint clue I found about that supposedly used hw microcontroller that actually speaks to AV button, was some I2C addr of iirc 0x6D
17:58.39javispedromaybe wait for the rx-51 kernel ;)
17:59.04DocScrutinizerso we got a moorestown platform with one I2C-bus that has a chip on addr 0x6D that does all the analog line wiggling
17:59.12DocScrutinizeraiui
17:59.45javispedroah, there's more patches
18:00.39DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'd appreciate if you could have a 5min look at it, and spot the bits I missed (like e.g. commit comments that clearly say what a hw platform and what chip at 0x6D this is for)
18:02.11DocScrutinizerjavispedro: also I wouldn't mind you sharing all the URLs of further bits related that you may find
18:02.43RST38hmoos at javispedro evilly
18:03.51javispedromoo RST38h
18:04.01javispedroDocScrutinizer: nah, I think you get them all on the LKML link
18:04.23DocScrutinizerV3 0123/3
18:04.28DocScrutinizeralso V2
18:04.34DocScrutinizerprolly also V1
18:05.16DocScrutinizerso that's one thread with 4 posts holding 3 patches plus some other file
18:05.31DocScrutinizerif there's more, please toss URL
18:05.44javispedroyeah, there's more
18:05.51javispedroup to v7 seemingly
18:05.56DocScrutinizerduh
18:07.22javispedroI gather from the discussion that it is a custom uc.
18:07.47javispedroponders how to make a http link from a nntp/gmane thread..
18:08.38javispedrohttp://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.devel/82247/match=eci
18:08.51DocScrutinizerpaste >150 char string here, for unique google search
18:08.55javispedroerr, better: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.devel/82246/focus=82247
18:09.01DocScrutinizeraah
18:09.59javispedroalso interesting are posts on the v6 thread: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.devel/81629/focus=81630
18:11.05DocScrutinizerI'm planning to introduce second controller later. Both controllers are i2c-devices, but internal way of working is totally different.
18:11.11DocScrutinizer</quote>
18:11.32DocScrutinizerso yeah, this is worthless for "us"
18:11.57*** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-137.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:15.03bistoncan i get a more verbose boot ouput from my n900 instead of the streaming dots ?
18:15.53MohammadAGbefore X starts, framebuffer, after it starts, not really
18:15.54bistoni tried giving it the --boot=single as i do on my centos from maemo-flasher... didn't change a thing though
18:16.08MohammadAGin your case, X started
18:16.11bistonokay then is there a way to stop X from starting?
18:16.16bistonusing flasher?
18:16.19MohammadAGthat, I'm not sure of
18:16.26bistontime to google
18:16.33bistonthanks for the tip
18:16.54bistonah, runtime level
18:17.00*** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)
18:20.53*** part/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156)
18:21.30*** join/#maemo dotblank (~num@pool-173-53-34-87.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)
18:22.48*** join/#maemo OkropNickM (~Kuba@host-n2-72-114.telpol.net.pl)
18:22.53*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com)
18:26.48DocScrutinizerI really wonder what's wrong with tapio.vihuri, to nowhere mention the type or build or label or whatever of that ""In this case it's microcontroller in I2C bus,""
18:27.49*** join/#maemo ab (~ab@a88-115-219-226.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:27.49*** join/#maemo ab (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)
18:28.33DocScrutinizerthat's not a driver for ECI, that's a driver for ""microcontroller in I2C bus <unknown>"" and that uC is talking to ECI equipment
18:30.53DocScrutinizerthat's kinda like calling a driver for bq24150 battery gauge LiIon-driver
18:31.43*** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@95.72.166.224)
18:33.16*** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)
18:34.15DocScrutinizerit either is RX91-ECI.ko, or ECI-atmel888051foo.ko
18:36.06DocScrutinizerbut both names would reveal too much about what Nokia is actually doing ATM, I guess
18:36.54*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.78.65.253)
18:36.54*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr)
18:37.16DocScrutinizerthough for RX51/N900 there've been drivers long before the device was shipped or even announced, and their names were more sane
18:38.39*** join/#maemo Svavel (~max@bullerovre99.bitnet.nu)
18:43.15*** join/#maemo Metallikettu (~metallike@91-157-20-147.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:44.10alteregoEek, only got 5G free
18:45.43*** join/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-76-175-234-46.socal.res.rr.com)
18:48.12*** join/#maemo Passeli (~passeli@85-23-79-231.bb.dnainternet.fi)
18:50.29*** join/#maemo ptl (~patola@unaffiliated/ptl)
18:51.35*** join/#maemo Pavel (~pavel@pool-173-75-5-189.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net)
18:52.22*** join/#maemo sar3th|away (sar3th@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-dylbfiusehjeiyqg)
18:54.47GAN900keeps having to clear out space to copy pictures.
18:54.52*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr)
18:55.10GAN900Remember when a 1GB HD was, like, the most amazing thing in the world?
18:55.30DocScrutinizeryeah
18:55.53lcukGAN900, first HD I had was 250mb
18:56.03lcukquantum 2.5inch thingy
18:56.05DocScrutinizer50
18:56.12javispedro40!
18:56.15SpeedEvil60 here
18:56.17SpeedEvilST227R
18:56.21SpeedEvilWas that loud...
18:56.24lcukthe Manchester Mark I had programmable storage space of 1kb
18:56.38lcukthe guy giving the presentation asked how much my device had lol
18:56.38SpeedEvilIt woke parents when started at night through 2 closed doors
18:56.52DocScrutinizerlcuk: HAH, my first computer has 2k
18:57.06lcukDocScrutinizer, the manchester Mark I was more than room sized
18:57.06SpeedEvilMy first also 1K
18:57.09SpeedEvilzx81
18:57.14lcukwith valves
18:57.22lcukgot great close up photos
18:57.28alteregoMy first HD was 10Mb
18:57.38lcukwinchester?
18:57.48alteregoDon't remember.
18:57.50trumeeyeah 10Mb for me too
18:57.51DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: well, when zx80/81 became affordable, I bought a 16k expansion right away with it
18:57.58trumeelcuk, that rings a bell
18:58.03lcukholy crap, 16x more memory!
18:58.10trumeelcuk, winchester.
18:58.13GAN900lcuk, 50MB
18:58.16*** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@ppp-93-104-52-223.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
18:58.17SpeedEvilI still have some of the gear out of the closing of RoDime.
18:58.18DocScrutinizermy first computer was a NASCOM-1 though, which I assembled and soldered myself
18:58.23Arkenoi20Mb was mine
18:58.28SpeedEvilWhich factory is ~4 miles from here.
18:58.31SpeedEvilWell - it was.
18:58.37lcukused a single sheet of paper
18:58.41GAN900Getting a 75MB SCSI Macally drive made my year.
18:58.49lcukDocScrutinizer, how long did that feat take you?
18:59.05trumee1.44 Mb floppies were the most unreliable thing
18:59.20lcuk1.44 were quite stirdy
18:59.24lcuksturdy
18:59.25trumee360K floppies were much better
18:59.31lcukit was the real floppies that weren't
18:59.45trumeelcuk, 1.44Mb developed bad sectors all the time
19:00.02lcukyou shouldv used Amiga ones then, 1.76mb on those badboys
19:00.07MohammadAGmy first HDD was 5GBs
19:00.09RST38hhad 160k floppies
19:00.10trumeei hated those. Real floppies were much better for me
19:00.12lcukand MFM encoded
19:00.18MohammadAGand that wasn't the largest size around
19:00.20MohammadAGcries
19:00.27lcuklol
19:00.29*** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu)
19:00.33RST38hand 40MB HDs
19:00.47trumeeRemember used to use Norton Disk Doctor on them daily
19:00.49Venemohey
19:00.55lcukmy zx spectrum ran on audio tapes
19:00.57DocScrutinizerlcuk: some 2 weeks iirc
19:00.58trumeeto get rid of the bad sectors
19:01.16lcukalways a choice between saving work or making a mix tape
19:01.29lcukmany an innovative app was lost to the top 40
19:01.33MohammadAGI never saw tape drives
19:01.48RST38hhad autodio tapes too, 1MB per tape
19:01.49trumeeMohammadAG, same here
19:02.12MohammadAGfirst OS I used was Windows 3.01
19:02.12RST38hlcuk: choice? what choice? ofcourse it was saving work
19:02.23RST38hMohammad: Too young :)
19:02.39lcukRST38h, you could keep your computer powered up and running for a while, the top 40 however only played certain songs once a week
19:02.42javispedroI remember I once wanted to record the zx81 tapes on this computer... but what for...
19:02.45DocScrutinizerlcuk: soon after that I havily modded the whole thing, and developed and built a cmos 64k RAM expansion, damn was that cute, nonvolatile RAM
19:02.46MohammadAGthen 95, 98SE, XP, Red Hat, Vista, Ubuntu
19:03.12MohammadAGred hat was my first encounter with linux, was in 2003 I think
19:03.28RST38hlcuk: Did not have top 40. Never neededit anyway.
19:03.36RST38hStill do not.
19:03.42lcukmy first linux experience was putting console boot installation on numerous machines in college
19:03.53*** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-212.dynamic.ngi.it)
19:04.02GAN900MohammadAG, don't worry, give it 20 years and the old guys will start dying off.
19:04.12MohammadAGo_O
19:04.17RST38hmy first linux experience was watching the damn toy unix (tm) go into kernel panic on failed gethostbyname()
19:04.37MohammadAGshove a divide by zero function into the kernel
19:04.49MohammadAGand you have a blinking caps
19:05.25MohammadAG<RST38h> Mohammad: Too young :) <-- indeed, used to play games as a youngster :p
19:05.46*** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@46.162.221.80)
19:05.53MohammadAGI remember when a game required 3D acceleration and that was all new and stuff
19:05.54RST38heverybody has done that
19:06.03RST38hit is the gaming rig that differs
19:06.10MohammadAGit needed a Voodoo 3DFX card or something
19:06.33RST38hfor us, if the game used anything above SCREEN2 (16 colors with leakage) it was cool
19:06.36pexihow did u loose your interest on gaming
19:06.49pexisome boring job? nagging wife?
19:06.57pexi:)
19:07.08RST38hVampire Killer (later known as Castlevania) or King's Valley 2 were cool
19:07.11MohammadAGme? I upgraded to a PS1 that time
19:07.29MohammadAGthen a PS2 in 2002 I think
19:07.33MohammadAGthen a PS3 in 2007
19:07.44javispedropexi: notion that "those days games suck"? ;)
19:07.50MohammadAGthen a PS4 in 2017
19:07.51RST38hpexi: I wrote an emulator and can play my childhood games on anything fromPC to a digitalcamera since then =)
19:08.16alteregoHeh
19:08.27RST38hBut yes, I stopped caring about games once they started requiring DirectX
19:08.33pexishould all the nerds be playing world of tanks now (i presume that it was THE fantasy to ram with ww2 tanks)
19:08.34MohammadAGlol
19:08.47RST38hBecause none of my laptops ever had 3D hw, and I never bought a desktop.
19:08.54RST38hpexi:No.
19:09.05MohammadAGI remember when WoW came out and everyone got addicted to it, never liked that game
19:09.10pexiexcellent game
19:09.40RST38hnever tried WoW. ZAngband, on the other had...
19:09.42RST38hhand
19:09.57Arkenoiplayed 60s (spacewar) and 70s (star trek) games much in mid-90s
19:10.11RST38h"yes" on startrek
19:10.36RST38has to space war, we played it on some ancient lab equipment, do I get a bonus for that? =)
19:11.23alteregoMeh, WoW just looks lame to me.
19:11.34VenemoWoW is crap
19:11.38alteregoIt's still an extremely popular game though
19:11.48RST38hAh, apparently it has got some pretty neat easter eggs, Gilliam-style
19:12.04VenemoI prefer EVE if it comes to MMOs
19:12.16RST38hLike a quest to kill Romeo and Juliet, whom you should kill at the same time, because the bastards revive each other
19:12.40Arkenoistill plays Elite (Oolite)
19:12.43RST38hOr the Little Red Riding Hood quest, where one party member comes the Little Red Riding Hood
19:13.06Arkenoione of a few games that was enhanced really good way
19:13.21RST38hArkenoi: Written in ObjectiveC. Not easily portable to Maemo =(
19:13.25MohammadAGtbh I never liked MMOs
19:13.27Arkenoiyes :-(
19:13.37MohammadAGor RPGs
19:13.58RST38hMohammad: Try Moria, Angband, or Zangband. Terribly addictive.
19:14.00*** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD2942D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:14.04SpeedEvilstill plays nethack.
19:14.11cehtehwhy isnt objectiveC not easily portable? no objective C gcc compiler for maemo? non portable runtime?
19:14.16RST38hMohammad: And yes, you get to kill Ballmer and Gates in ZAngband
19:14.18SpeedEvilI've even got it on the n900
19:14.26SpeedEvilkeyboard is a bit annoying though.
19:14.29MohammadAGpfft, let me know when they get Elop
19:14.32RST38hcehteh: try.
19:14.41cehtehno intention, just wondering
19:14.47VenemoMohammadAG: why do you wanna get elop?
19:14.48SpeedEvil'A ghoul named Elop hits you!'
19:15.02cehtehi know that objective C needs some runtime library but i wonder if that was written in a non portable way
19:15.07RST38hMohammad: Probably never, sorry. But they have got Marti Ahtisaari, if that helps to relieve your grief
19:15.08javispedro'You transform into a Microsoft-owned corporation'
19:15.09MohammadAGVenemo, we all know why
19:15.21Arkenoitried playing NES elite on Maemo with RST38h's emulator, it is playable but hardly enjoyable
19:15.26VenemoMohammadAG: ah, still black friday? :S
19:15.35pexiWoT > WoW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsGabpIOqz0
19:15.38javispedrocehteh: I think the case is more like "no one's interested, requires rebuilding gcc, which takes a long time"
19:15.39RST38hSpeed: 'A newt named Elop attacks you!"
19:15.57MohammadAGthen came Guitar Hero, never really got into it at that time
19:15.58SpeedEvil:
19:16.01cehtehjavispedro: yes that might be the case .. but portability might be not
19:16.02RST38hArkenoi: Just play the original ZX version
19:16.12RST38hArkenoi:On RST38h's emulator, of course
19:16.16DocScrutinizerArkenoi: Eliter FTW
19:16.37MohammadAGthough I did get addicted to Modern Warfare 2
19:17.04VenemoI prefer strategic games and RPGs
19:17.17Venemomy current favourite is Starcraft II :)
19:17.32MohammadAGWell, MW2 helped me fix a bug in the bluetooth messenger, so I consider less-thinking games better
19:17.39DocScrutinizerRST38h: the Amiga version of Elite was awesome
19:17.47MohammadAGyou could consider MW2 strategic though
19:18.15VenemoMohammadAG: how did it help you with the bluetooth messenger?
19:18.16DocScrutinizerthough first version I got was on Schneider-CPC128
19:18.22RST38hDoc: The Frontier?
19:18.31MohammadAGVenemo, idk, spent 3 hours trying to fix something at school, it didn't work
19:18.33DocScrutinizernah, never got that advanced
19:18.35RST38hDoc: Yes. But there is also X: Beyond The Frontier, it runs on Windows
19:18.44ArkenoiThe only true Elite was Archimedes one and i never managed to feed PC Acorn emulator with disk images properly :-(
19:18.45MohammadAGfixed it in 2 minutes when the idea came to my mind while playing MW2
19:19.00DocScrutinizerRST38h: too bad I got no redmond crap here
19:19.11RST38hArkenoi: I have got it to work, except that you mean BBC not Archimedes
19:19.11pieter_Venemo: thanks for the help, flashing worked like a charm
19:19.23MohammadAGVenemo, I'd give you a binary, but you need two N900s to test
19:19.26RST38hArkenoi: It is pretty nice but not much nicer than other 8bit versions
19:19.37MohammadAGso only alterego and lcuk could test it :P
19:19.38RST38hDoc: The X is pretty nice, although may get boring
19:19.39ArkenoiRST38h, nope, Archimedes is ancient RISC machine
19:19.44RST38hArkenoi: I know
19:20.00RST38hArkenoi: But still, the ORIGINAL elite was developed for the Beeb, not the Archimedes
19:20.06ArkenoiRST38h, the major difference was that (like in Oolite) you are no longer center of the universe
19:20.17Arkenoiyou may see other ships fighting
19:20.22RST38hAh
19:20.28RST38hNo, the Beeb version did not do that
19:20.52VenemoMohammadAG: see? gaming is good :)
19:21.07DocScrutinizerBell & Braben were friggin nerds, sure thing
19:21.20MohammadAGI wonder if anyone plays MW2 here :p
19:21.27ArkenoiThere was Linewars then
19:21.44VenemoMohammadAG: yes, you
19:21.44Arkenoia duel game for Cobra MkIIIs
19:21.52GAN900MohammadAG, used to.
19:21.54MohammadAGbesides me, I want a 1v1 :p
19:21.58MohammadAGGAN900, PS3?
19:22.07GAN900MohammadAG, nah, 360.
19:22.17GAN900(although I've got a PS3, too)
19:22.28MohammadAGPSN ID?
19:23.10GAN900general_antilles
19:23.21GAN900Or maybe without the underscore
19:23.25GAN900Don't recall.
19:23.26javispedrowatches the creepy "Maemo project" ad and secretly hopes the evil N900 eats Elop
19:23.40MohammadAGwell
19:23.47Venemojavispedro: what ad is that?
19:23.50MohammadAGwhen you're on, same nick, mind adding me? P
19:23.53MohammadAG:P*
19:24.08MohammadAGVenemo, the paranormal activity -like one
19:24.39javispedroVenemo: quite old -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U
19:26.07*** join/#maemo ShadSEC (~ShadSEC@116.220.22.95.dynamic.jazztel.es)
19:28.13*** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.116)
19:28.49*** join/#maemo _NIN (~NIN101@p5DD28896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:31.41Venemojavispedro: oh yeah, I saw that one
19:31.44*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)
19:31.59divanGuys, I need some advice.. Asphalt5 webos game tries to get file from /media/internal, which is obviously doesn't exists on N900. I'm creating WebOS Games autoinstaller from IPK and I don't want to give the root privileges to it. So, how to create/emulate/cheat Asphalt binary to not access/ignore /media/internal/ access?
19:32.38norayrI've bought a new SD card, written 20110215 image to it. again waiting for root device /dev/mmcblk0p1... other images as well. what could it be?
19:32.48norayrno, sorry, wrong window
19:32.54divanThis path '/media/internal' is hardcoded to binary btw.
19:33.34Venemodivan: why don't you just create a directory called /media/internal ?
19:33.47javispedroor even better, a symlink to /home/user/MyDocs
19:34.08divanVanadis, it needs root priveldges as I understand.
19:35.38Venemodivan: then give it root privileges and watch as it does rm -rf /
19:36.00divanNot funny.
19:36.45*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)
19:36.50javispedro/home/user/MyDocs does not require any root privileges to write.
19:37.16divanjavispedro, sure, but symlink is supposed to be created in /media dir.
19:37.58javispedroyou need root to create the .desktop files unless you're planning the be CSSU only.
19:38.03divanAgain - these post-install scripts will be launched from installer. And many people will contribute to it. I don't want to give root access for that.
19:38.20divanjavispedro, no. Desktop and icons are perfectly placed in ~/.local/
19:38.30javispedronot without the pre-CSSU h-d.
19:38.34javispedro*with
19:39.02divanwell, witout CSSU the icons can't be added to Desktop, but displayed in Application Menu
19:39.48MohammadAGhildon-home had a bug fixed upstream
19:40.16GAN900MohammadAG, will do.
19:40.28javispedroMohammadAG: it was only a home issue? -desktop not affected?
19:40.35MohammadAGafaik yeah
19:40.38MohammadAGlemme check
19:41.03divanmaybe it's possible to reiplement open(2) that will handle /media/internal and redirect to other path? And launch game with LD_LIBRARY_PRELOAD...
19:41.12MohammadAGhttp://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-home/commit/9992de1f561d8b91566cd7972a6fe4fae2b559f8
19:41.23divanDid someone does such stuff with preenv games?
19:42.40MohammadAGjavispedro, commit ^
19:42.40*** join/#maemo qwertzuiopiuztre (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu)
19:43.08javispedroMohammadAG: yeah, but doesn't seem to say anything about h-d
19:43.13*** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu)
19:43.33VenemoI hate this. my laptop has the habbit of randomly freezing...
19:44.19MohammadAGjavispedro, desktop files worked fine from ~/.local
19:44.30MohammadAGbut they didn't show up in hildon-home's shortcut menu
19:48.03javispedroMohammadAG: since PR1.1, found it. ok!
19:48.25MohammadAGah
19:48.41MohammadAGdidn't know about ~/.local before PR1.1 anyway, was a n00b back then
19:48.49MohammadAGjavispedro, how do I set properties on gtk widgets?
19:49.00javispedrowhat property?
19:49.16MohammadAGhttp://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/pre-alpha2/apis/libhildon-2.1.34/HildonPannableArea.html#HildonPannableArea--mov-mode
19:49.29MohammadAGignore the pre_alpha2 thing, it's the same in final and I cba to find that
19:50.11javispedroif there's not a convenience accessor function, just use g_object_set
19:50.33javispedroi.e. g_object_set(G_OBJECT(your_widget), "property-name", property_value, NULL);
19:52.47*** join/#maemo me|kor (~melkor@88-134-30-112-dynip.superkabel.de)
19:57.52DocScrutinizerdivan: ( So, how to create/emulate/cheat Asphalt binary to not access/ignore /media/internal/ access? ) create a fake_fopen.so to LDPRELOAD, that intercepts fopen() and siblings amd cooks the path argument tru a regex you either get from $ENV or via parameter to LDPRELOAD invocation. See aoss
19:58.36divanDocScrutinizer, yeah, I'm implementing this way right now.
19:59.06*** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@95.73.13.127)
19:59.07DocScrutinizerdivan: if you can implemet that in a general way, then plrease do and share
19:59.09DocScrutinizer:-D
19:59.13javispedro...
19:59.22javispedrothat's what preenv itself basically does...
19:59.48divanDocScrutinizer, it will be universal installer for all WebOS games. I'll share as soon as first version will be ready.
20:00.25DocScrutinizerI'm talking about a generic *.so to tweak path in fopen() and related calls
20:00.34DocScrutinizernothing more, nothing less
20:01.00SpeedEvildivan: fun!
20:01.29javispedrowaves and repeats: that what preenv does.
20:01.52javispedroso, when it funnily interacts with preenv's preloaded library and everything crashes horribly..
20:02.08javispedrodon't tell me I didn't warn ;)
20:02.19divanDocScrutinizer, javispedro , I'm not sure I've understood you completely.. What does mean "in general way'?
20:02.56divanjavispedro, preload in preenv will interact with some other lib?
20:03.19javispedropreenv IS a preloaded library.
20:03.48divanAnd...
20:04.13javispedrofor a start, the current scripts will probably ignore whatever the current LD_PRELOAD event.
20:04.21javispedro*LD_PRELOAD value is
20:05.05javispedroalso, in the future preenv itself will also hook open()
20:05.11divanI'll check with scripts, thanks for warning.
20:05.13divanAhh..
20:05.28divanSo, it would be nice to move such hacks to preenv source, right?
20:05.41DocScrutinizerdivan: FAKE_FOPEN="sys/!mysys/ /foobar/(.*)/x!/fobaaar/\1/y" LDPRELOAD=fake-fopen.so myapp-which-accesses-sys-and-gets-diverted-to-mysys
20:05.50javispedropartially disagrees when a symlink is so much easier and faster, but...
20:06.59DocScrutinizerjavispedro: synling from /sys/foo/bar to /arbi/trary ?
20:07.00javispedroif no symlink, yes, it'd be better to not have more than one library.
20:07.08DocScrutinizerarrg symlink*
20:07.23javispedroDocScrutinizer: no, that was an answer for above's use case.
20:07.30DocScrutinizeraah
20:07.33javispedroDocScrutinizer: for your use case, consider bind mounts.
20:07.42DocScrutinizerno way
20:07.56DocScrutinizerI need that per app, not global
20:08.05javispedroLinux has per-app mount points ;)
20:09.15divanOk, let me check with scripts. Hope ld_preload will work, and I'll try to keep in touch with preenv changes in future.
20:09.50divanBTW, here is how app is look like. Any comments and suggestions are welcome. http://www.imagebam.com/image/eec3c0120398892
20:09.51divanhttp://www.imagebam.com/image/a64a24120398902
20:09.57divanhttp://www.imagebam.com/image/de84a6120398909
20:10.03divanhttp://www.imagebam.com/image/c9a519120398917
20:10.08divanhttp://www.imagebam.com/image/b87027120398922
20:10.40alteregoteeheehee, top gear
20:11.45piggzalterego: when the bmw got destroyed?
20:11.54piggzor going thru the ice?
20:13.12DocScrutinizerjavispedro: wut?
20:13.41DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you're not talking about chroot, are you?
20:13.42*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@rocket.vel.lv)
20:13.46*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jd)
20:13.48javispedroDocScrutinizer: no, they're called "mount namespaces"
20:14.07DocScrutinizerincredible, a day I *learn* sth new :-)
20:15.04alteregopiggz: the new one that's on now
20:15.07divanjavispedro, anyway I don't want to create mess in the /media dir for every game that uses hardcoded pathes.
20:15.17alteregoErm, the snow plough out of a harvester one.
20:15.43javispedrodivan: there's a finite set of such paths, as on a real webos device
20:16.07piggzalterego: yeah, watching it....was funny when they fired grit at the bmw
20:17.16divanAny finite converges to infinity )
20:17.38divanIt's a rude way. But easiest, for sure.
20:18.00javispedrodivan: note that I personally dislike autoipkg installers for the simple reason that it invites to piracy
20:18.34alteregoI don't like them because they're crap.
20:18.43divanjavispedro, in what way they invite?
20:18.58javispedro(for more discussion -- http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-28.log.html#t2010-10-28T19:59:34  )
20:19.02alteregodivan: they promote piracy, how many people do you actually tihnk buys them legitimately?
20:19.27divanI wan't to have the oficiall way to install game from .ipk file. Buy it :) and install.
20:20.06divanNow people install some prepackaged .debs - is that better?
20:21.19alteregoI doubt anyone legitimately buys the games.
20:21.37alteregoHow many N900 owners do you think have a Palm Pre?
20:21.43alteregoI'd guess at, hrm, two.
20:21.46divanThat's the second question. And I can't change anything here.
20:22.15divanBut now - even if I buy the game - I have no easy way to install it.
20:22.25javispedroyes.
20:22.30alteregoWell, you only have to do it once ..
20:22.38javispedrothe fact that you don't know probably means you don't have a pre ;)
20:23.03javispedroas I said then on the channel, the legal store doesn't send you an ipk to you.
20:23.23javispedro(it obviously does, but not that you can see it)
20:23.32alteregoYeah, like Ovi
20:23.38divanDon't tell me that )) I still believe there is an official way to buy .ipk.
20:26.17alteregodivan: I doubt HP would agree with you
20:26.23alteregoOr the game developers
20:27.20divanSo, you must admit that all possible installs of webos games on n900 are piracy.
20:27.42alteregoIt wouldn't suprise me.
20:28.16divanThen, the choice is on prepackaged unofficial .debs (which aren't in repos) and autoinstaller(which will be available from repos).
20:28.20alteregoNo one has paid me for any of my apps, why would I expect them to pay for others'?
20:30.28divanHope this is a joke.
20:33.06alteregoHope what is aa joke?
20:33.42divanThat logic - "if no one paid me, why should I?"
20:34.10divanForget it. Just imho.
20:35.04*** join/#maemo rosseaux (~BeRo@62.76.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net)
20:35.18DocScrutinizerjavispedro: have a manpage to start with, regarding mount namespaces?
20:35.45javispedroDocScrutinizer: nah, but there was this ibm article..
20:35.52DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (though until I learn more about that, I really like the simplicity of LDPRELOAD solution)
20:36.08javispedrohttp://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-mount-namespaces.html
20:36.52javispedroeither way, it's just a flag in the fork() syscall
20:36.53javispedroer...
20:36.56javispedroclone() syscall
20:37.05*** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@92.90.20.41)
20:37.14javispedroso it should be in the clone() manpage, hopefully =)
20:38.07javispedrohttp://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man2/clone.2.html
20:38.12javispedro(it is -- CLONE_NEWNS)
20:40.07DocScrutinizerjavispedro: thanks, but looks really complex
20:40.30*** part/#maemo koala_man (vidar@unaffiliated/koala-man/x-2491903)
20:40.34javispedroit's just a parent creates child shell with new namespace -> mount / umount as appropiate
20:41.12javispedrootoh, if you're interested in the preloaded approach, iirc scratchbox2 does it, and they moved the path renaming logic into Lua
20:45.02*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-123-21-199.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
20:45.15*** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBDFFE.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:46.23*** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@95.72.189.185)
20:46.59GAN900ohgod
20:47.12Jaffa?
20:47.14GAN900Tim's written a socialist manifesto.
20:47.52nox-moin
20:48.01chxwhere
20:48.23GAN900http://maemo.org/community/council/state_of_maemo-q12011-1/
20:50.54ruskiewe are legion
20:51.06javispedroto the barricades!
20:51.28*** join/#maemo linuxplatform (~fedora@188.148.251.129)
20:51.47ruskieman the pitchforks
20:52.06GAN900boils some pitch.
20:52.25MohammadAGgets an RPG-7
20:52.43javispedroall hail MohammadAG and the CSSU!
20:53.03MohammadAGthrows RPG-7 and gets a Javelin
20:53.12divanis going to translate this for russian maemo community
20:53.25ruskiegrabs a mages staff and starts blasting fireballs around...
20:53.30alteregoffff
20:56.27*** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@187.78.111.230)
20:56.29*** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@sal69-2-78-192-146-25.fbxo.proxad.net)
20:56.29*** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal)
20:59.43JaffaGAN900: Yeah, there was some talk of toning it down a little ;-)
20:59.59ruskiedeja-vu...
21:00.11ruskiewhat's there to tone down...
21:00.18JaffaGAN900: Indeed, it has been.
21:00.21ruskiemanifestos need to be extreme...
21:00.36ruskiesince people will water them down in practice anyway
21:00.37*** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@97.8.9.46.customer.cdi.no)
21:00.39MohammadAGtimeless, mind popping into #maemo-ssu?
21:00.54JaffaGAN900: Basically to avoid endless TMO trolling as to whether everyone needs to agree on "We believe..." statements to be part of "the community"
21:01.19JaffaThen again, I've realised relatively recently that the people who moan most about "the community" are the ones who contribute least to it
21:01.35JaffaSuch as those matching "ge.*"
21:01.51JaffaGAN900: Going to run?
21:02.22*** join/#maemo steve___ (~steve___@unaffiliated/steve/x-19302814903)
21:02.48RST38hChrome May Drop the URL Bar
21:03.14MohammadAGlol
21:03.17*** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@95.72.189.185)
21:04.14javispedroponders..
21:04.20javispedrobtw, are there any plans about tracker in the CSSU?
21:04.44MohammadAGjavispedro, if you have anything for it I can pull it into gitorious
21:04.48Jaffajavispedro: "plans" "about" "tracker"?
21:04.55javispedrowhat MohammadAG answered ;)
21:05.21Jaffajavispedro: As MohammadAG says, point to a patch or raise a bug  saying "I'd like to fix X, can you pull in the sources"
21:06.12*** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at)
21:06.30javispedroactually, I was thinking something bigger. Like the upgrade to a more recent upstream version (still in the same series) that I was promised but never happened =)
21:06.53javispedrobut that is probably too big for me..
21:06.56javispedrohm... will take a look.
21:07.02MohammadAGif it doesn't break anything, why not?
21:07.10Jaffazactly
21:07.23Jaffand that's what testing's for ;-)
21:08.22javispedromy private branch currently has some fun stuff also -- like hardcoded exclusion of cover.jpg ;)
21:08.28MohammadAGlol
21:08.34MohammadAGin images or music?
21:08.36javispedroimages
21:08.44MohammadAGthat would be awesome
21:08.58MohammadAGor exclude images from /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds
21:09.18MohammadAGI wonder how hard a portrait task manager would be
21:09.27RST38hsuspects that the only good thing to be done to Tracker is keworking it
21:09.56MohammadAGtracker works well, when it's not indexing
21:10.02RST38hyes
21:10.08MohammadAGreally, listing songs in the mediaplayer is epically quick
21:10.15MohammadAGNokia's stock player sucks at it though
21:10.30MohammadAGthe rewrite lists songs in less than 2s
21:10.35MohammadAGsame for albums
21:10.42RST38hHow about adding a menu item or an icon "rescan all media" and disabling automatic rescan?
21:10.58MohammadAGI suggest otherwise, I had that on symbian and it sucked
21:11.03steve___Can someone point me to some docs for upgrading the ios on an n900?  Currently it's running version 3.2010.02-8.203.1
21:11.14MohammadAGios?
21:11.26RST38hor delaying rescan until the device stays locked for at least 5minutes?
21:11.27*** join/#maemo rosseaux (~BeRo@62.76.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net)
21:11.41MohammadAGthat's very reasonable
21:11.42steve___internal OS
21:11.48MohammadAGbut rescanning shouldn't happen a lot
21:11.58MohammadAGonly when the db is corrupt
21:12.04MohammadAGwhen new media is found, it only indexes that
21:12.25MohammadAG~flashing
21:12.25infobotflashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
21:12.33MohammadAGor use the application manager steve___
21:13.08divanjavispedro, what did you tell before about preloading and preenv? ) Asphalt now gives me that error "./Asphalt5: symbol lookup error: ./Asphalt5: undefined symbol: PDL_ScreenTimeoutEnable"
21:13.17divanWith LD_PRELOAD=
21:13.28steve___MohammadAG: I get a message in the application manager.
21:13.31steve___MohammadAG: http://pastebin.com/b9m4N6bc
21:14.10RST38hMohammadL currently, tracker scans whenever stuff changes
21:14.16RST38hif it changes a lot, tracker will scan a lot
21:14.21MohammadAGwhat do logs say?
21:14.31MohammadAGRST38h, indeed, it tracks what's changed
21:14.47MohammadAGthough tbh, I think scanning should happen immediately when the screen's locked
21:14.51RST38hthe problem is that even THAT is a costly operation
21:14.55RST38hI agree
21:14.57MohammadAGthen paused or low prioritzed when unlocked
21:15.06RST38hcannot
21:15.17MohammadAGcan't be paused?
21:15.22MohammadAGfile a bug upstream!
21:15.26javispedrodivan: as I thought it is overwriting whatever you put in LD_PRELOAD, check /opt/preenv/env.sh
21:15.26RST38hWhat makes it such a pain is not the cpu priority, it is the mmc access bandwidth
21:15.47RST38hSo, yes, I would only do it when the device is absolutely idle (preferably locked)
21:16.05RST38hmost likely with a delay to prevent it from starting on wshort locks unlocks
21:16.05GAN900Jaffa, god no.
21:16.40*** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
21:16.42GAN900Jaffa, this is a term for much better people than myself. ;)
21:18.10steve___MohammadAG: thank you for the link.  I'll read it.
21:18.12jacekowskiyou can pause it
21:18.43jacekowskikill -STOP `pidof` tracker
21:18.58jacekowskiand then -CONT when you want to continue
21:19.04MohammadAGlol
21:19.07JaffaGAN900: I can imagine that despite lots of noise on TMO not many people will come forward
21:19.22*** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@HSI-KBW-078-043-183-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
21:19.34RST38heverybody left.
21:19.40JaffaDespite professing in absolute terms that maemo.org MUST be made to continue and it's "just" a matter of collecting money.
21:19.57JaffaNo, everyone's either busy or doing something more useful than avoiding trolls.
21:20.16RST38hqwerty left, many other people left
21:20.37javispedroanother thought: did I dream reading a message to -community about some company now being maemo.org's legal owner?
21:21.02RST38hyou mean the nemein guys?
21:21.03GAN900javispedro, I missed that one.
21:21.16javispedroooh, nemein.
21:21.17*** join/#maemo TNZ_ (~quassel@cha92-4-82-224-227-41.fbx.proxad.net)
21:22.05javispedroso I didn't dream it after all.
21:22.09javispedro*sigh of relief*
21:22.13MohammadAGhas someone ever exploited trust on maemo.org?
21:22.34RST38hTrust? What trust? Do you believe something you have heard on maemo.org?
21:22.58MohammadAGno, I meant like they gained trust, then pushed a bricker
21:23.07RST38hespecially likes the latest generation of photoshop-wielding lemmings with their "N9 designs"
21:23.16RST38hMohammad: Ah, that... No
21:23.26javispedroGAN900: talking about the post that is quoted here ( http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62447  ) , that I cannot find on gmane nntp for some reason.
21:23.33RST38hMohammad: There was one case when some guy ported his app from iPhone and pushed it up
21:24.10MohammadAGsunvox?
21:24.17MohammadAGor whatever it was called
21:24.30RST38hno no, some baseball game
21:24.44MohammadAGah, I remember him
21:24.51JaffaRST38h: Eh? WTF are you trolling about now?
21:24.53MohammadAGthen Venomrush made a post about him
21:25.00MohammadAGhe's not trolling
21:25.04*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@86-41-28-108-dynamic.b-ras2.dbn.dublin.eircom.net)
21:25.04*** join/#maemo federico2 (~fede@unaffiliated/federico2)
21:25.05MohammadAGI remember that
21:25.07achipaJaffa: the basketball dude, sio2 I think
21:25.13MohammadAGyeah, him
21:25.21JaffaMohammadAG: "Trust, what trust?  Did you believe something you read on maemo.org?"
21:25.23RST38hJaffa: I will warn you next time I am trolling, so that you can get popcorn in advance
21:25.45Arkenoiwonders if there is any chance alien dalvik for maemo will be released to general public
21:25.57RST38hMohammad: ironically, current Extras* pretty much shows that you can do without organized QA
21:26.04MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44928
21:26.10achipawould advise Arkenoi to have low expectations
21:26.12MohammadAGmy search skills are ftw ^ :P
21:26.19RST38hMohammad: A few common sense safety checks + a forum to comment on each app do the job well
21:26.30JaffaMohammadAG: sio2 is the only large trust abuse, apart from the widespread voting up by authors of their own packages - but that's never been explicitly ruled out
21:26.32RST38hArkenoi: In short,no
21:26.48ArkenoiRST38h, why, if they already do have it working?
21:27.05ArkenoiWhy just trash it for no reason?
21:27.06RST38hArkenoi: javispedro has visited their booth at MWC
21:27.06javispedroArkenoi: simply put, they are doing it for the money.
21:27.29MohammadAGJaffa, was just wondering tbh, I only joined maemo.org last year :p
21:27.31JaffaArkenoi: They want to sell it to OEMs.
21:27.31RST38hArkenoi: They are basically targeting Android app developers who would like to wrap their apps for use on other OSes
21:27.38Arkenoijavispedro, and are they going to sell it?
21:27.45JaffaArkenoi: Not to end users
21:27.52ArkenoiJaffa, what's wrong with selling it to end users?
21:27.55javispedroArkenoi: to OEMs, which is where the money is
21:27.56MohammadAGwell, december 09, joined talk.maemo.org on october 09 I think
21:28.04JaffaArkenoi: The internal N900 version provides a mechanism to show it works
21:28.13javispedroRST38h: actually, not developers -- just manufactures.
21:28.24MohammadAGugh
21:28.25javispedroRST38h: in fact I asked them "why not developers"
21:28.27MohammadAGthe iPhone sucks
21:28.34javispedrowith no interesting answer..
21:28.39MohammadAGtrying to download an app redirects me to a billing page
21:28.39JaffaArkenoi: Cos end-users want support, don't follow instructions and the software requires (presumably) getting the apk (presumably)
21:28.40ArkenoiJaffa, i do not really see how selling it to end users affect their relations with OEMs
21:28.43RST38hjavispedro: so, they are simply not interested
21:28.44MohammadAGit's freaking free
21:28.56ArkenoiJaffa, they can seel it "as is".
21:28.56JaffaArkenoi: It's more work for no effort.
21:29.04Jaffas/effort/reward/
21:29.04MohammadAGApparently, once you add a card, you can't go back to no card, it stays with them
21:29.41JaffaArkenoi: And Maemo users typically don't buy software.
21:29.57Arkenoijaffa, well, then why not to release it for free, then? n900 is officially EOLed so it does not affect other sales but may increase popularity
21:30.01javispedroRST38h: wild guess: they are eyeing someone else might want to do what BB seems to want to do (pull in most Android apps into their store). So many $$$ it makes end users or developers markets irrelevant.
21:30.13*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@rocket.vel.lv)
21:30.13*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jd)
21:30.15*** join/#maemo T_X (~quassel@cl-3161.ham-01.de.sixxs.net)
21:30.15*** join/#maemo T_X (~quassel@unaffiliated/t-x/x-1456208)
21:32.12achipabtw is is running on *meego* on the n900 or on *maemo* ?
21:32.18JaffaArkenoi: No idea.
21:32.20Jaffaachipa: Maemo 5
21:32.20javispedromaemo
21:32.54javispedroalso, forced portrait =)
21:32.54JaffaArkenoi: Presumably because it'd be easier for someone to pirate it/reverse engineer which is less likely in a commercial B2B arrangement with an OEM?</guess>
21:33.44divanjavispedro, thanks for the hint. Now I just pass two shared libs to LD_PRELOAD and it works. Well, almost. No all open()s are intercepted. Trying figure out why...
21:33.50ArkenoiJaffa: i doubt it. If someone is willing to reverse engineer it, maemo version does not make it any easier than any other
21:34.01*** join/#maemo Wamanuz5 (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com)
21:34.49Arkenoiand it does not matter if it was OEMed befor release or not
21:35.44*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@cs181007002.pp.htv.fi)
21:36.02*** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk)
21:37.04*** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-235.dynamic.ngi.it)
21:37.55javispedrothe "maemo users don't buy software" point has been raised twice today already
21:40.04JaffaArkenoi: If you release it publicly, for free, on Maemo; of course it's more easy to reverse engineer it if you're a competitor than if it's only distributed and integrated into individual manufacturer's devices.
21:40.13SpeedEviltries to remember when he last purchased software.
21:40.25SpeedEvil(not integrated into a device)
21:40.54JaffaSpeedEvil: Ooh, good game.
21:41.02Jaffahas absolutely no idea.
21:41.30SpeedEvilIt may have been Doom II.
21:41.46*** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@216-188-248-24.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
21:41.54ArkenoiJaffa: "integrated" just means someone placed it on the internal drive, no difference if you get such a device in hands
21:42.25SpeedEvilArkenoi: naah - I mean something not embedded - for example the program running in my credit card or SIM.
21:42.43GAN900I bought that stupid animation thing Tim linked on twitter the other day.
21:42.47JaffaSpeedEvil: Presumably excluding console games (otherwise a discounted Lego Rock Band for Wii earlier today). If including PC games, only one I've bought (ever) is the Orange Box a couple of years ago.
21:43.03JaffaArkenoi: Potentially true, indeed.
21:43.11ArkenoiSpeedEvil, it makes some difference, sure, but are they targeting *that*?
21:43.15SpeedEvilJaffa: I moremean commercial software - rather than integrated into a single use device.
21:43.20JaffaArkenoi: Anyway, I'd love to have it. They don't seem interested. I'm guessing at why <shrug/>
21:44.02JaffaSpeedEvil: It would have been for RISC OS for me, then. Probably around 1996? Maybe Impression (hmm, that was in 1994)
21:45.02*** join/#maemo Wamanuz5 (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com)
21:45.04JaffaWow, no wonder I object to even spending $2 on a random game
21:45.26SpeedEvilI have no in-principle objection to buying stuff.
21:45.36SpeedEvilI've just not found anything I really want to buy.
21:45.44JaffaNo, I meant more of a gut "hmm, not going to pay that for something which might be shit"
21:45.51SpeedEvilAh.
21:46.05JaffaRather than a fundamental philosophical objection to commercial software.
21:46.15JaffaHell, I write it by day and used to write it by night :-)
21:46.30MohammadAGheh, angry birds + all level packs is 99c on the iPhone
21:46.38SpeedEvilOh - my bad.
21:46.49SpeedEvilI did buy the level pack for angry birds.
21:46.58Jaffahas something ingrained like "if it's that good, and it's a popular platform, there'll be something approximating it which is free"
21:47.33Jaffamight have bought Sygic if the N900 had a good car mount around when I last looked at it
21:47.44JaffaAnyway, N900 dying. Bed time.
21:47.54SpeedEvilnight!
21:59.48divanLD_PRELOAD method works perfectly with Asphalt5.
22:02.03*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@rocket.vel.lv)
22:02.03*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jd)
22:02.16*** join/#maemo b00nz (~boonz@173-10-175-74-BusName-washingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
22:02.24timelessJaffa: has anyone agreed to transfer dns?
22:02.28*** join/#maemo linuxplatform (~fedora@188.148.251.129)
22:07.03*** join/#maemo robink (~robink@unaffilated/robink)
22:09.34*** join/#maemo newbie007 (~cmbox@ip70-179-42-131.sd.sd.cox.net)
22:10.44newbie007is there any chance that some maemo guru out there is also interested in getting maemo on to a nook color?
22:11.25SpeedEvilImpossible.
22:11.36SpeedEvilLarge slices of the stack are binary only.
22:11.40SpeedEvilYou want #meego
22:12.09newbie007I thought maybe since the architure seems similar...
22:12.16newbie007I'll go ask though, thanks
22:12.24SpeedEvilAlso - it's pirated, if you did that.
22:12.41newbie007I don't think I broke any always
22:12.46newbie007*any laws
22:13.08newbie007I just don't want to use Android,, it's so creep
22:13.11newbie007creepy
22:13.23SpeedEvilNo, I mean, you would break laws if you did.
22:13.37SpeedEvilAs maemo includes closed source bits only licenced to run ont he n900
22:13.55newbie007my understanding is that the closed bits are for the screen
22:14.04newbie007which would be different anyway
22:14.12SpeedEvilNo, maemo has enormous amount of closed stuff.
22:14.15SpeedEvil~closed
22:14.15infobotmethinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages
22:14.19newbie007what I want is an OS I trust and the repos
22:14.37newbie007I see
22:14.41newbie007thanks!
22:15.35MohammadAGthe touchscreen driver (for ts input anyway) is open
22:15.41MohammadAGtsc2005.c
22:37.52*** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-235.dynamic.ngi.it)
22:38.21*** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu)
22:39.14*** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
22:43.07*** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106)
22:43.56*** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@189-46-62-39.dsl.telesp.net.br)
22:54.32DocScrutinizeryawn
22:58.17AranelI need to ask a couple of questions to someone interested in/responsible of rtcom-messaging-ui about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11559, suggestions anyone?
22:58.19povbotBug 11559: Conversations App - Scrollbar Appeared, Touch Scrolling Does Not Work
23:01.53*** join/#maemo sge (~username@andesiitti.telemail.fi)
23:01.57*** join/#maemo Sulx (~sulx@85.23.15.158)
23:01.58*** join/#maemo karbas (karbas@thalassa.inside.org)
23:02.20*** join/#maemo ketas (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee)
23:05.40Aranel:| I'm trying to get help about this thing for at least a month. How about a little bounty? (keep in mind I'm a poor guy): buy you a beer via paypal? gift you latest pack of Angry Birds? Document a very boring stuff on Maemo Wiki? Please?
23:07.26*** join/#maemo chx_food (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view)
23:08.14*** join/#maemo linuxplatform (~fedora@188.148.251.129)
23:12.47*** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@81-234-249-242-no52.tbcn.telia.com)
23:12.47*** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq)
23:14.20Venemoguys, I'm not a PulseAudio hater, but I'd like to know why it needs 20% of my CPU on my Fedora laptop
23:15.29norayrVenemo: I do not really understand why people like wrappers like PA. I never use sound wrappers. Luckily I assemble systems for myself (gentoo) and always exclude wrappers like that
23:16.04norayrAnd if five-six years ago there were problems with playing back with two or more applications simultaneously
23:16.05Venemonorayr: understandable
23:16.23norayrthen for several years I do not notice such problems at all
23:16.32norayrWhich means ALSA is enough :)
23:16.46Venemohehe
23:17.15norayr:)
23:17.38*** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
23:18.20norayrAnd I dissapointed in Fedora many years ago. I respect RedHat for what they're doing - but it's better to use it in Debian or Gentoo, not in RHEL or Fedora. RHEL is ok though, if not for desktop. :)
23:19.29Venemonorayr: well I don't really sympathize with Debian - I haven't tried Gentoo yet
23:19.49Venemonorayr: in Fedora, I usually manage to get everything working OOB, or after some messing around
23:20.27budfivepulse is great if you want to have network sound
23:20.40norayrVenemo: what's OOB ?
23:20.49norayrok, understand - out of the box
23:20.49norayr:)
23:20.52*** join/#maemo lolcat (~lolcat@fjb-1x-dhcp127.studby.uio.no)
23:20.54budfiveI have a server that runs pulse and has speakers connected to it. Other machines can send sound to it from anywhere
23:21.41norayrFor me - it's slow, I need to remove a lot of oob services  :)
23:21.46*** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5679.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:21.58norayrokay, let's not turn maemo channel into the holy war :)
23:22.29norayrbudfive: that's nice I didn't know about it.
23:22.31*** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@216-188-248-24.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
23:22.54norayrbudfive: It would be better though if we had plan9 like system where we can mount sound device via network
23:22.59norayrand use it :)
23:24.33Venemonorayr: I once saw a graph about all the Linux sound systems... it was chaos
23:25.35nox-sounds like this one:  http://matt.bottrell.com.au/uploads/Pics/linuxaudio.png
23:25.38Venemonox-: yes, that's it
23:27.30nox-<3 freebsd's oss `rewrite' where you rarely ever need `sound daemons'...
23:27.51nox-with in-kernel mixing and per-app volume control...
23:28.00*** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au)
23:29.00*** join/#maemo jhb1 (~joerg@p4FEF5679.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:29.01*** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.74.85.229)
23:29.08*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr)
23:30.51*** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org)
23:30.55DocScrutinizerbudfive: that's a nice niche usecase for PA - I'm not convinced I need to have it hog my CPU like Venemo said and PA is notorious for. I'm all on same page as norayr
23:31.31norayrvery nice diagram
23:31.33norayrthanks :)
23:31.37VenemoDocScrutinizer: seems that the app I was running (EVE Online under Wine) caused it to hog my CPU. just sayin' because normally it doesn't do so
23:32.48DocScrutinizerVenemo: I had nothing but problems with PA, and it's a mess and not delivering on any of the maybe madeup problems it's supposed to tackle
23:33.09VenemoDocScrutinizer: I get your point
23:33.18VenemoDocScrutinizer: and I dunno why we need yet another audio wrapper
23:34.24DocScrutinizerfor example everybody says "ALSA can't mix" - I answer "DMIX". Then "yeah but that doesn't work" - me: "here it does, and ever did". Then "but PA is better documented" - me: "where?".. this is an endless fruitless debate
23:34.39VenemoDocScrutinizer: yeah...
23:34.56VenemoDocScrutinizer: another endless debate is Gnome vs KDE vs Xfce vs ... etc
23:35.00*** join/#maemo BugBlue (~mendel@CAcert/Assurer/BugBlue)
23:35.17jacekowskiKDE FTW
23:35.21*** join/#maemo moshee (~moshee@c-24-16-155-210.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
23:35.21*** join/#maemo moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
23:35.41jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, mixing in kernel would be nice
23:35.59DocScrutinizerI just can say I recently learnt to watch out for "author: Lennart"
23:36.08VenemoDocScrutinizer: who's that?
23:36.14*** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@78.147.5.154)
23:36.15*** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman)
23:36.21jacekowskiand per app volume
23:36.25DocScrutinizerdevel of abominations like PA and avahi
23:37.00Venemohehe
23:37.11DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ALSA *has* per app volume, seamlessly, since ages
23:37.21jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: what where?
23:37.22jacekowskiwhen
23:37.24jacekowskihow
23:37.28nox-DocScrutinizer, someone once said linux ppl tend to write the nth new implementation of something instead of fixing the existing one...
23:37.38DocScrutinizergoogle for alsa softvol plugin
23:37.53DocScrutinizernox-: sounds about right
23:38.02jacekowskinox-: yeah,
23:38.03jacekowskialsa
23:38.05jacekowskixorg
23:38.09jacekowskiwith kms
23:38.11nox-another example is ifconfig vs iwconfig vs ip
23:38.24jacekowskinox-: these are 3 separate tools
23:38.28jacekowskiiwconfig is for wireless
23:38.37jacekowskiand just wireless aspect of it
23:38.40nox-yeah well on freebsd ifconfig knows about wifi too
23:38.51DocScrutinizerjacekowski: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/1731
23:38.57ShadowJKI'd written a new implementation too, I'm starting to think alsa is unfixable :)
23:38.57jacekowskiwell, linux ifconfig does wired only
23:38.58ieatlintoooh, rumour has it qt is going to be part of webos
23:39.08nox-jacekowski, and thats what i meant :)
23:39.10jacekowskiand iwconfig is wireless
23:39.17jacekowskithat's just design decision
23:39.32Venemoieatlint: it is already, afaik
23:39.36nox-ok ill stop :)
23:39.46jacekowskiwhat was messed up was oss/alsa/pa
23:39.54ieatlintVenemo: and nokia was stupid enough to go with wp7....
23:40.02ieatlintnot to start up the conversation again... sorry
23:40.19Venemoieatlint: this decision from them was horseshit
23:40.27*** join/#maemo BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm)
23:40.37jacekowskiieatlint: where else would they go
23:40.43Venemoieatlint: although I tend to believe that it's a sort of temporary thing until MeeGo becomes really ready
23:40.53jacekowskiieatlint: symbian would take them only to insolvency
23:40.59ieatlintjacekowski: webos
23:41.04ieatlintwhich was my implication
23:41.12jacekowskiis webos even open
23:41.18ieatlintand yeah, symbian has been a dying platform for years
23:41.23jacekowskias in, hp is willing to be friendly
23:41.30ieatlintyep
23:41.33jacekowskihmm
23:41.37ieatlinthp and nokia are already business partners over qt
23:41.44ieatlintwebos was a natural fit
23:42.02jacekowskibut there was something strange about webos
23:42.05ieatlintopen, a development community already in place, qt support..
23:42.05dschoepeWikipedia says webos is mostly closed though
23:42.07jacekowskidoes it have X?
23:42.15ieatlinti don't think so
23:42.18jacekowskiyeah
23:42.23jacekowskithat's a problem
23:42.30ieatlintbut it has an sdl interface, and i'm told you can run qt apps on it
23:42.37jacekowskiyeah
23:42.44ieatlintwell, wp7 doesn't have x.. neither does symbian
23:43.12jacekowskiyeah but symbian display interface doesn't suck as much as sdl
23:43.13ieatlintwebos would've kept things in play though.. including hardware support
23:43.20ieatlintlinux kernel for webos, linux kernel for meego
23:43.45*** join/#maemo ketas (~ketas@195.20.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee)
23:44.15ieatlintwould've been a much clearer stepping stone to meego... of course meego's not even a specific goal for nokia now
23:44.33ieatlintjust vague statements that meego may play part of a "future disruption"
23:46.15jacekowskiat least they have clear plan for main os
23:46.51alteregoI thought MeeGo was pretty clear, I guess they just don't trust it enough.
23:47.14alteregoQt was the platform, and they've fucked it up.
23:47.19alteregoSo meh.
23:47.51Venemoalterego: timeless actually said that Nokia had just a few people on MeeGo, even before 'black friday'
23:47.54ieatlintwell, the qt division at nokia insists they're still relevant, and say they are still hiring in fact
23:48.10Venemoyeah, I wouldn't worry about Qt.
23:48.17alteregoieatlint: that's because Symbian is still Nokias biggest product ..
23:48.17Venemothey are pretty significant on the desktop too
23:48.28timelessmost people work on platform/qt/qml/apps
23:48.32alteregoThey have to support it until their WP7 phones surpass it.
23:48.34timelessspecific meego work is limited
23:48.49ieatlintyep...
23:48.59alteregoAnd them some.
23:49.04alteregos/them/then/
23:49.52ieatlintVenemo: as for qt on desktop, they've basically said development for it has stopped
23:50.07Venemoieatlint: that's horeshit
23:50.09ieatlintit's more maintainence only now
23:50.16Venemoieatlint: I can have QML on desktop too
23:50.33Venemoieatlint: horseshit*
23:50.50ieatlinthttp://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/18/buckets-of-cold-water/#comment-19420
23:51.11ieatlint"Qt on the desktop is currently not a priority for our R&D team"
23:51.28ieatlintit goes on to say that they are still working on it, but pretty much that it's just to maintain it
23:52.00jacekowskiwell, thing is that there is only so much stuff you can add to single library
23:52.22*** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl)
23:52.25jacekowskiand qt3 was already doing what it was supposed to do
23:52.31ieatlintand many things targeted toward mobile work on the desktop... i suppose the touch gestures/multitouch stuff will even be useful on desktop soon
23:52.38jacekowskiand qt4 is reaching point where it will be just bloat of useless code
23:53.08jacekowskiit started as widget library
23:53.21jacekowskianyways
23:53.23jacekowskigood night
23:53.25jacekowskitime to sleep
23:54.51ieatlintnight
23:55.01DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you noticed that link to softvol I tossed over?
23:58.41DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I'd think I'd even be able to hammer sth that automatically creates a volume slider named like the process basename for every process that opens ALSA:default, by just exploiting env var expansion in alsa config files

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.