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| 01:47.37 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/ http://i.imgur.com/abXmL.jpg |
| 01:48.16 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: now you just need to adopt Tonal too :D |
| 01:49.28 | chx | I use a vertical keyboard :) |
| 01:51.22 | luke-jr | I use a Dvorak-Tonal keyboard |
| 01:51.37 | luke-jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/keyboard/dvorak-tonal.png |
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| 02:04.12 | chx | luke-jr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bevanr/3899004832/ my Kinesis |
| 02:05.25 | luke-jr | ugly |
| 02:06.17 | chx | yes but useful |
| 02:06.29 | chx | if you mean me, well, too bad :) |
| 02:06.42 | lcuk | chx, gorilla arm needed |
| 02:07.00 | chx | why...?? |
| 02:07.04 | lcuk | I cannot imagine holding up arms like that to type all day |
| 02:07.23 | chx | well this was at a conference |
| 02:07.30 | chx | normally you have a chair with an armrest. |
| 02:07.50 | chx | so you are actually resting your hand all day long |
| 02:07.56 | chx | your arm at least |
| 02:08.03 | psycho_oreos | for arms to be held that high? what about elbows? wouldn |
| 02:08.08 | psycho_oreos | wouldn't they get sore? :p |
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| 02:10.34 | lcuk | chx, it also blocks easy access to touchscreens on the device infront of you |
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| 02:12.20 | chx | touchscreens. ahem. |
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| 02:54.29 | Sc0rpius | hehe I didn't see the pic in the topic till now |
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| 03:24.53 | DocScrutinizer | yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-gTobCJHs&NR=1&feature=fvwp --- tomorrow: http://nokiapland.com/ |
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| 03:28.36 | DocScrutinizer | btw this site somewhat changed in a strange way :-P http://www.nokiaplanb.com |
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| 03:32.06 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: It is twitter?! |
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| 03:32.46 | lolcat | What is nokia plan b? |
| 03:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.finanzen.net/chart/Nokia |
| 03:33.57 | lucent | it's an abortion pill for all the innovation that's been growing inside of R&D belly the last 5 years at Nokia company |
| 03:40.35 | comawhite | is there an aeroplane mode for the N900? |
| 03:41.10 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 03:41.10 | jonwil | yes there is |
| 03:42.49 | comawhite | how do I enable it? |
| 03:43.15 | DocScrutinizer | pondering this http://press.nokia.com/2008/02/25/nokia-and-university-of-cambridge-launch-the-morph-a-nanotechnology-concept-device/ is almost exactly 3 years old now, and realizing where we are now, I guess http://nokiapland.com/ is somewhat overoptimistic... |
| 03:43.39 | lolcat | By signing up for a free Launchpad account â which normally cost â¬300 a year â developers will get free admission to the next Nokia World/Nokia Developer Summit event, a free Nokia E7 device, a free Nokia Windows Phone 7 device (as soon as it becomes available) and free tech support for three months. |
| 03:43.57 | lolcat | Can I run maemo on an E7? |
| 03:44.05 | lolcat | Meego maybe? |
| 03:44.05 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
| 03:44.15 | comawhite | well if you sign up right now, do you still get that offer? |
| 03:45.20 | lolcat | Thats what I am hoping for |
| 03:45.25 | comawhite | me too |
| 03:45.27 | lolcat | I need a second and a third phhone |
| 03:45.32 | comawhite | I'd love to have a Symbian phone |
| 03:45.43 | comawhite | my n900 is fucked up |
| 03:45.51 | lolcat | It is written yesterday |
| 03:45.52 | comawhite | stupid usb port |
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| 03:46.23 | comawhite | I'd take a WP7 if it was given to me for free |
| 03:46.49 | comawhite | otherwise I won't buy one |
| 03:47.14 | lolcat | YEah, I have a launchpad account :D |
| 03:47.51 | comawhite | how do you know? |
| 03:48.29 | lolcat | I managed to log in |
| 03:48.36 | lolcat | But I don't understand it |
| 03:49.17 | lolcat | Doh, wrong launchpad :S |
| 03:50.02 | lolcat | Do you think I can still register and get it? |
| 03:50.22 | comawhite | I just did =\ |
| 03:50.26 | comawhite | I hope so |
| 03:50.52 | lolcat | Primary role, Developer |
| 03:50.54 | lolcat | Or crative |
| 03:50.57 | lolcat | I am not sure :S |
| 03:51.02 | comawhite | lolcat, sign up then email saying you never got the email =\ |
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| 03:56.39 | pupnik | IControlpad now available for gaming with your cellphone - very cool indie project - http://icontrolpad.com/ http://www.gp2x.de/shop/index.php/cPath/45 |
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| 04:00.37 | lolcat | I am now setting up a developer profile |
| 04:00.37 | lolcat | everything in the email is in the webpage |
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| 04:00.38 | lolcat | comawhite: Brief account description? |
| 04:00.38 | comawhite | lolcat, well apparently, you sign up, then you ask for request to join the developer programme |
| 04:00.38 | comawhite | lolcat, I put self developer |
| 04:00.38 | comawhite | =\ |
| 04:00.38 | comawhite | I didn't know what to put there |
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| 04:00.41 | comawhite | lolcat, after you sign up, you relogin, then click the Forum.Nokia logo and go to My Programs, click it, then apply for another program, click it, then go to "Go to Form Nokia Launchpad homepage (for member individuals only) |
| 04:00.41 | comawhite | then you tell them why you should get accepted |
| 04:00.41 | comawhite | I hope I can still get those phones :( |
| 04:00.41 | lolcat | Launchpad for induviduals? |
| 04:00.41 | lolcat | Is that the rigth page? |
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| 04:00.41 | comawhite | http://www.forum.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/ |
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| 04:01.10 | comawhite | pupnik, nice |
| 04:01.33 | comawhite | pupnik, too bad it's only for iPhone |
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| 04:01.58 | pupnik | comawhite: not hard to add padding for other devices |
| 04:02.12 | pupnik | but they don't have the resources to make moulds for everything |
| 04:02.33 | comawhite | okay I see |
| 04:02.34 | comawhite | now |
| 04:02.58 | lolcat | I think my application will be declined I suck at this -.-" |
| 04:03.06 | comawhite | get to play Final Fantasy 7 on PSX emulator |
| 04:03.18 | pupnik | yeah with decent controls for e.g. |
| 04:03.19 | comawhite | lolcat, good luck mate |
| 04:03.54 | DocScrutinizer2 | burps |
| 04:04.34 | DocScrutinizer | not going to push up their developers-count just to get a crappy winphone |
| 04:04.52 | lolcat | comawhite: You too |
| 04:04.56 | comawhite | :) |
| 04:05.02 | DocScrutinizer | hell, I got some 40 phones here, they can keep theirs |
| 04:05.07 | comawhite | if I get it, I'm throwing my N900 away |
| 04:05.24 | lolcat | comawhite: Throw it in my direction will you? :P |
| 04:05.34 | comawhite | lolcat, give me $250? |
| 04:05.45 | comawhite | or $200 |
| 04:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | pffff |
| 04:05.53 | lolcat | How broke is it? |
| 04:06.04 | comawhite | it works perfectly, except the usb port |
| 04:06.13 | DocScrutinizer | how broke is he? |
| 04:06.14 | lolcat | So it can't charge? |
| 04:06.16 | comawhite | I have to use ssh to send it files |
| 04:06.59 | comawhite | but it comes with a usb/wall charger in 1, 2 batteries, original everything, plus it already has skin protections on it |
| 04:07.04 | lolcat | I first have to see what I can do with the Windows Mobile and if I got it |
| 04:07.24 | DocScrutinizer | omfg, skin protection ;-D |
| 04:07.37 | comawhite | lolcat, I heard I can still send it to Nokia and get it fixed |
| 04:07.41 | lolcat | comawhite: Oo, if I don't get this deal, I migth go for it. What part of the earth are you on? |
| 04:07.43 | comawhite | just too lazy |
| 04:07.51 | comawhite | lolcat, US |
| 04:08.02 | lolcat | comawhite: I have a 5 year warranty on mine, it is about 4 years old now |
| 04:08.06 | lolcat | Or less than that |
| 04:08.16 | comawhite | It's never been dropped :) |
| 04:08.26 | lolcat | So if it is caused by normal usage I can return it... |
| 04:08.39 | lolcat | Oh, crap, your keyboard is probably not noridic? |
| 04:08.44 | comawhite | I'll only sell it if I get those 2 phones for free |
| 04:08.49 | comawhite | else I need it |
| 04:09.06 | lolcat | Then you should hope you apply bether than me |
| 04:09.19 | lolcat | I said I was writing social geotaggin software, and a social website xD |
| 04:09.26 | comawhite | I hope I get accepted and still get a chance at the phone |
| 04:09.42 | lolcat | With: "exciting new features I can't disclose here" :P |
| 04:09.45 | DocScrutinizer | sighs |
| 04:10.36 | comawhite | lolcat, what new features? |
| 04:10.45 | lolcat | I didn't specify |
| 04:10.49 | comawhite | wait I signed a NDA with Nokia o_O |
| 04:10.57 | lolcat | Trade secrets, can't tell nokia about them |
| 04:11.01 | lolcat | NDA? |
| 04:11.10 | psycho_oreos | non disclosure agreement |
| 04:11.10 | comawhite | Non Disclosure Agreement |
| 04:11.25 | lolcat | I guess I did too then? |
| 04:11.51 | DocScrutinizer | mpfffffffff sigh |
| 04:12.11 | lolcat | As long as your irc username is diffrent |
| 04:13.15 | comawhite | lolcat, just go to your profile, on the right side, developer programme, then at the very bottom you will see NDA |
| 04:13.15 | lolcat | Oh, this migth be the kind of place nokia hangs out? |
| 04:13.27 | comawhite | TitleDateApprover |
| 04:13.27 | comawhite | NDA19-Feb-2011 |
| 04:15.10 | DocScrutinizer | wait, weren't you the guy that bragged with uploading lxp's injection drivers to rapidshare? |
| 04:15.27 | comawhite | me? |
| 04:15.47 | lolcat | I can't see it |
| 04:16.09 | lolcat | But in my defence Id say I was drunk and not legaly fit to make a legal agreement |
| 04:16.39 | comawhite | I probably won't get the phone since I only signed up after it was announced |
| 04:16.40 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: obviously not you |
| 04:17.01 | lolcat | But it is like the day after |
| 04:17.29 | comawhite | yeah |
| 04:17.31 | lolcat | comawhite: To assist you with your development activities in the near-term, we will ship one free Nokia E7 device to all program members. Additionally, we will send to you one free Nokia WP7 device, as soon as it becomes available. |
| 04:17.47 | lolcat | Maybe we get the WP7 when it becomes available? |
| 04:17.48 | pupnik | i hope everyone who gets a winphone does nothing to develop for it |
| 04:18.07 | lolcat | I migth sell mine and get a proper phone |
| 04:18.22 | comawhite | pupnik, I'm not going to be arsed about it, but if I get a fucking phone for free, why bitch about it? :P |
| 04:18.25 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: look at lolcat - odds are exceptionally good exactly this will happen |
| 04:18.27 | comawhite | I'll develop for it |
| 04:18.48 | lolcat | I could maybe write a forkbomb for it |
| 04:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | or upload to rapidshare |
| 04:19.15 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
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| 04:19.27 | lolcat | If I get a free phone I will see if it has enough battery time to be a secondary phone |
| 04:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: what makes you think we get any wiser with you telling us about that? |
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| 04:20.50 | lolcat | No idea |
| 04:22.00 | lolcat | A nokia 1616 is what I will get I think |
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| 05:47.31 | Termana | morning |
| 05:47.48 | Ken-Young | Good morning |
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| 06:18.46 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/ http://i.imgur.com/abXmL.jpg |
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| 06:37.52 | iluminator101 | is there a address book plug in for contacts for n900 |
| 06:38.32 | iluminator101 | or an address book app for n900 that you guys suggest |
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| 07:04.43 | pupnik | iluminator101: can you add fields to the contacts? |
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| 07:24.55 | ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Calao-Systems-Snowball/ |
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| 09:12.56 | pupnik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Trak The first computer i ever 'programmed' ;P |
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| 09:40.26 | alterego | pupnik: http://www.nikbull.co.uk/Angeldust/Acorn_files/acorn_electron.jpg |
| 09:40.29 | alterego | My first |
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| 09:45.16 | pupnik | nice alterego |
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| 10:10.13 | mavhk | I still need an Atom and a A540 for my collection |
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| 11:05.16 | niala_ | hello |
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| 11:08.13 | niala_ | question: a second hand n900 for 180⬠is good? |
| 11:08.47 | pupnik | niala_: are you bidding on the one ending in 2 hours? |
| 11:09.13 | pupnik | median used price in .de is 250 euro |
| 11:09.41 | niala_ | for new? |
| 11:09.45 | pupnik | used |
| 11:10.56 | niala_ | yes, that's what I see on the internet |
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| 11:11.16 | pupnik | seller phanter01phanter? |
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| 11:14.20 | niala_ | something to be tested first ? |
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| 11:25.19 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-nMr886E44&feature=youtube_gdata google real-time speech translation for android |
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| 11:31.04 | RST38h | US military wants software and services to manage upwards of 500 fake online personas designed to interact with social media, presumably including such sites as Facebook and Twitter. |
| 11:33.12 | RobbieThe1st | Cool. Now when people say stuff we don't like, we can just say their shills for the US Military! |
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| 11:34.50 | pupnik | the 'eyes-free' GUI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS-ju61vOQw&feature=youtube_gdata |
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| 11:36.49 | Termana | RST38h, OH MY LORD! Watson and now this. We are being taken over by computers I tells ya!!!11!! |
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| 13:32.15 | ZogG | sony failing agaibn |
| 13:32.18 | ZogG | lol |
| 13:32.54 | ZogG | niow not only you can be using psn without any ban, you can ban yourself |
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| 13:33.57 | DocScrutinizer | mooo |
| 13:34.11 | leafpad | pats DocScrutinizer |
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| 13:34.55 | leafpad | :o is konversation available for n900? |
| 13:35.44 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if somebody went crazy and compiled it, I heard KDE exists |
| 13:35.57 | *** part/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-174-111-058-051.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 13:35.59 | Jade | i just saw that they added opengl ES support for KWin |
| 13:36.01 | Jade | and got it to run on n900 |
| 13:36.09 | Jade | let me see if i can find the link again |
| 13:36.27 | Jade | http://dot.kde.org/2011/02/18/kwin-embraces-new-platforms-opengl-es-20-support |
| 13:36.27 | Jade | here |
| 13:36.33 | leafpad | on http://konversation.kde.org/ they say they have plans for it |
| 13:36.40 | leafpad | i dont know how old that line is! |
| 13:36.42 | leafpad | -_- |
| 13:36.46 | Jade | it would be pretty cool to have KDE running on the n900 |
| 13:36.50 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 13:37.02 | leafpad | wont it be very very slow :o ? |
| 13:37.21 | leafpad | ok, i'm about to ask a dumb question ! |
| 13:37.26 | Jade | yeah it might be slow |
| 13:37.30 | DocScrutinizer | will take ages to startup, but then... |
| 13:38.01 | leafpad | whats the difference between something called *scratchbox* and Nokia Qt SDK for n900? Do they install seperately? |
| 13:38.11 | DocScrutinizer | I don't thing switching tasks etc is _much_ slower |
| 13:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | think* |
| 13:39.38 | ZogG | Jade no it wouldn't =) |
| 13:40.27 | Jade | it would be cool if it wasnt |
| 13:40.31 | Jade | kde is pretty fun |
| 13:40.45 | DocScrutinizer | kde4 is a PITA |
| 13:40.53 | Jade | we could switch from hildon to kde entirely |
| 13:41.47 | DocScrutinizer | KDE has no dialer |
| 13:41.55 | Jade | damn |
| 13:43.08 | DocScrutinizer | well, you can run gnome apps under KDE, but I doubt there's a hildon compatibility layer |
| 13:44.50 | DocScrutinizer | and last 3 or so days resulted in another bottom line of "according to our research a community driven compatible dialer is almost impossible to implement" |
| 13:45.38 | Jaffa | leafpad: Scratchbox is a low-level, Linux-only tool you can use for application or platform development in a number of technologies. Qt SDK runs on multiple platforms and allows you to build Qt applications for Maemo |
| 13:46.05 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, for maemo you mean. I was under the impression its entirely possible when connected via ofono on MeeGo |
| 13:46.16 | lcuk | (infact, the dialer is totally open source over there) |
| 13:46.19 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ack |
| 13:47.03 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless i'm sure it is by no metrics "compatible" as in "feature complete" |
| 13:47.23 | lcuk | well I guess at some point it has to be. |
| 13:47.26 | *** part/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@cpe-188-129-119-82.dynamic.amis.hr) |
| 13:47.32 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 13:47.38 | lcuk | especially since as one of the reference apps - it should adhere to the reference specs |
| 13:48.42 | DocScrutinizer | which friggin reference specs? are they talking about interaction between thermal management, dialer, and 911-call emergency mode - just to name one example |
| 13:48.46 | ZogG | kde is huge monster that we don;t need |
| 13:49.07 | ZogG | Qt is fun, kde is no-go for mobile with all it's libs |
| 13:49.15 | ZogG | and fancy not needed stuff |
| 13:49.17 | leafpad | Jaffa: when apps need to be ported, or a general linux source needs to be compiled, scratchbox will be needed for it? Or can it be done in the qt sdk? |
| 13:49.26 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, why don't you ask? http://wiki.meego.com/Project/Dialer |
| 13:49.37 | lcuk | have you tested it to see how it would handle those things |
| 13:49.50 | Jaffa | leafpad: Depends on the source |
| 13:50.18 | DocScrutinizer | because I don't really care about meego anymore, until either they become more community-friendly or get muuuuuch better documentation about design rationale |
| 13:50.47 | leafpad | hmm |
| 13:51.14 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: and NO, I WON'T test overheating my N900 and then call 911 to see if it works |
| 13:51.59 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I doubt it's correctly implemented in maemo |
| 13:52.05 | lcuk | I actually meant to actually communicate with the devs and discuss your obviously important topics with people |
| 13:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | tzzz you're the only one who thinks they are important |
| 13:52.30 | lcuk | and if the community is wrong, it is upto members of the community to fix that |
| 13:53.12 | lcuk | ? |
| 13:53.14 | DocScrutinizer | meego got designed by gods, and those don't explain themselves nor are they listening to critics |
| 13:54.44 | leafpad | Jaffa: can you give me the link to installing scratchbox? |
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| 13:55.10 | lcuk | leafpad, http://maemo.org/development/ |
| 13:55.23 | lcuk | includes documentation and installers and lots of info |
| 13:58.22 | Xax21 | hi |
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| 14:02.27 | NIN101 | Shouldn't this channel be +n? |
| 14:03.55 | DocScrutinizer | mumbles ²¼¼&%##!!@&§©Åâ¬â about discussing design concepts of a stillborn OS with devels who know just 2 answers: "is it upstream?" (not even an answer!) and "you're free to send patches" |
| 14:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: why? |
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| 14:05.43 | NIN101 | flooding. |
| 14:05.58 | Jaffa | Not generally a problem. |
| 14:06.57 | divan | Guys, does anyone know how to create QPushButtons with the same style as in default Maemo Mediaplayer? I know I can do this via css by myself, trying to copy it's look and feel, but I don't want to do guesswork if there are some common methods for that. |
| 14:07.14 | Jaffa | divan: Look at the Open Media Player? |
| 14:07.17 | alterego | divan: which buttons? |
| 14:07.21 | Jaffa | A reimplementation of Media Player in Qt... ;-) |
| 14:07.21 | divan | And I believe it's look and feel can be extracted from current Maemo theme, no? |
| 14:07.45 | divan | alterego, when you open Media Player on N900 you see 4 buttons. |
| 14:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | well, I can see +n making sense |
| 14:07.58 | divan | Jade, hmm thanks. I'll take a look now. |
| 14:08.19 | divan | Is it in repos? |
| 14:08.23 | Jaffa | divan: Not yet |
| 14:08.43 | Jaffa | MohammadAG or alterego can point you at the gitorious link |
| 14:08.49 | Jaffa | (it's not in the topic at #maemo-foss) |
| 14:08.50 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:09.03 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:09.05 | *** mode/#maemo [+n] by DocScrutinizer |
| 14:09.09 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:10.27 | DocScrutinizer | anybody still with us? |
| 14:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 14:10.32 | infobot | :), DocScrutinizer |
| 14:10.52 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: better? |
| 14:10.57 | ruskie | lol |
| 14:11.18 | divan | Jaffa, thanks, I've found: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/?p=26 |
| 14:11.19 | NIN101 | lol Doc. |
| 14:11.25 | Jade | divan, i dont think so |
| 14:11.34 | Jade | it's very recent and experimental |
| 14:11.35 | DocScrutinizer | why lol? |
| 14:11.36 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: I don't know how you can call MeeGo stillborn, it will continue to have Intels support and Nokia haven't left it yet. |
| 14:11.41 | Jade | i think it's only people on kde's side playing around for now |
| 14:12.06 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: I'm just quoting much better guys |
| 14:12.26 | alterego | Sure .. |
| 14:12.28 | alterego | Who? |
| 14:12.31 | alterego | abill_uk? |
| 14:12.46 | Jaffa | alterego: There's no major CE manufacturer who is as committed to it as Nokia were; and they'll treat their MeeGo device - at a corporate level - even more of an R&D project than the 770 ever was. |
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| 14:13.33 | Jaffa | alterego: Intel are committed to shifting chips. Android, Windows and MeeGo all further that aim. Hell, so does Mac OS X and - I'm sure they'd love to get it - iOS |
| 14:13.37 | DocScrutinizer | Unless there's a change in Nokia's leadership (or at least Nokia's leadership's mind), the MeeGo device from Nokia will be stillborn. http://www.mwkn.net/2011/07/front.html |
| 14:14.12 | alterego | It will with that attitude :P |
| 14:14.13 | Jaffa | Don't trust what you read on the Internet ;-) |
| 14:14.48 | Jaffa | It carefully says "the MeeGo device from *Nokia*". |
| 14:15.33 | divan | Jade, anyway the interface is just the same and I've found the answer already. |
| 14:15.38 | Jaffa | Someone else (although who, I've no idea) could make MeeGo a core part of their mobile strategy (Samsung or HP being the best options, but both are better served currently by more finished OSes) and release a MeeGo device which *wasn't* stillborn. |
| 14:15.48 | DocScrutinizer | and my rant was clearly related to dialer, which for sure is a useless piece of cruft for tablet UX |
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| 14:18.23 | DocScrutinizer | just as whole meego core is a useless piece of crap for handsets, as long as development is done in a tablet/laptop centric way |
| 14:18.41 | alterego | O_o |
| 14:18.51 | alterego | Where are you getting this information? |
| 14:19.06 | alterego | Who says handset is not being developed? |
| 14:19.25 | alterego | It's being developed harder than netbook and tablet. |
| 14:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | from the few answers the gods of meego gave to me, before they told me to piss off |
| 14:19.25 | Jaffa | And more openly |
| 14:19.27 | alterego | Exactly. |
| 14:19.37 | Jaffa | alterego: Although you'll ship a decent, well supported device with it? |
| 14:19.37 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: what gods? |
| 14:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: I guess there's a chanlog in #meego and #meego-arm |
| 14:20.38 | alterego | Okay, so you can't quote your sources, fine .. |
| 14:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | for sure there's a good one for this chan |
| 14:21.46 | alterego | Anyway, if we're lucky, we may be able to stick MeeGo on the first WP7 phone, as apparently it was supposed to be the first MeeGo device. |
| 14:22.07 | alterego | Bootloader depending of course. |
| 14:22.21 | Jaffa | alterego: Really? The *first* MeeGo device, i.e. the OMAP36[34]0-based RM-680? |
| 14:22.54 | Jaffa | heard mention - but not from a direct source - that the WP7 phone won't be out until the end of the year - earliest? |
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| 14:23.10 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 14:23.13 | alterego | Jaffa: they were aiming for May afair |
| 14:23.26 | alterego | But this may have changed, that info is based on the annoucement last week .. |
| 14:23.33 | Jaffa | alterego: URL? |
| 14:23.36 | alterego | WP7 isn't ready |
| 14:23.45 | DocScrutinizer | quite for some reason, as wincrap hw actually is the only hw that's tailored to fit the OS, not the other way round |
| 14:23.52 | piggz | alterego: probably wont be ready until there is a linux compiler :) |
| 14:23.56 | alterego | Doesn't do multicore, and it lacks a lot of stuff that Nokia will get ass raped for just like the did for the N900 |
| 14:24.29 | Jaffa | 's been really spoilt by the N900's multitasking. If the Palm Pre wasn't so weird looking, and was available cheaply in the UK, it might be an option. |
| 14:24.36 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: I'm just going by what a Nokian told me. |
| 14:24.47 | DocScrutinizer | well, apple might apply for that title as well |
| 14:24.47 | Jaffa | plans on sticking with his N900 for a while. Just some optimisations and some CSSU love to make it excellent. |
| 14:24.58 | Jaffa | 'd love some low-level hacker to have a go optimising some low-level stuff |
| 14:25.13 | alterego | Jaffa: me too, luckily enough I've got two now, one for MeeGo dev and one with Maemo that is my main handset. |
| 14:25.34 | alterego | What I'd like to see is a new maemo build, based on MeeGo closed components with hardfp and neon optimizations. |
| 14:25.48 | alterego | I don't think I'll ever have the time to do that though :) |
| 14:25.59 | Jaffa | alterego: What's the performance like of MeeGo for N900 like now? |
| 14:26.25 | alterego | Jaffa: the UI is pretty responsive now, app startup times are a bit rubbish. |
| 14:26.43 | alterego | fennec takes about 10 seconds to startup |
| 14:27.08 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: there are some good low level hackers around :-D |
| 14:27.56 | alterego | hardfp & neon will be with us in a week or two hopefully which should push the performance up substantially. |
| 14:28.10 | alterego | Also, this is my experience on my device which runs off of a class 4 micro sd card |
| 14:28.58 | pupnik | interesting... based on meego closed components? like what for e.g.? |
| 14:29.10 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: Jaffa: marginals. how is standby time? that's the question you need to ask. Also what's resume time, what's the possible resume sources? |
| 14:29.16 | alterego | pupnik: kernel (they have the latest) with their bme, and their sgx |
| 14:29.35 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: rubbish, pm is still being integrated for 1.2 at the moment. |
| 14:29.37 | pupnik | ahh got it |
| 14:29.47 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHAHA |
| 14:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: evidently you need no chanlogs, you brought it to the point by your own statement right now |
| 14:31.22 | ruskie | kernel would be nice... beyond that... everything else leave it more or less like it is... |
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| 14:32.54 | DocScrutinizer | there are people already porting newest upstream kernel for N900, in a way more likely to fit N900's needs than what meego-arm does |
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| 14:33.58 | alterego | ruskie: the point is, new kernel means those components (and others) need to be updated :P |
| 14:34.02 | DocScrutinizer | as those people understood you can't always ask "is it upstream?" - they appreciate there might be drivers and kernel tweaks tailored to fit this particular hw platform |
| 14:34.23 | alterego | You're such a whiner :P |
| 14:35.08 | DocScrutinizer | and you aren't really helpful for a general discussion with that statement |
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| 14:36.11 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: considering all you say is "is it upstream?" you're not particularly helpful either. |
| 14:36.20 | alterego | You've been bitching about that for about 8 months now. |
| 14:36.29 | alterego | In that time you could have got your patches accepted. |
| 14:36.37 | DocScrutinizer | BS, I'm not 'saying' that, I'm quoting it |
| 14:37.03 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: BS, I simply refuse to create patches |
| 14:37.17 | alterego | m'hmm |
| 14:37.37 | DocScrutinizer | and yes, I object to meego devs about that notion that I should STFU if I don't |
| 14:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | my patch for sensorfw would remove all files and rename the project |
| 14:38.41 | alterego | I just think you're wasting a lot of energy and time constantly bitching about how bad MeeGo is. |
| 14:38.48 | DocScrutinizer | so now you see what's that with gods at meego |
| 14:39.11 | DocScrutinizer | I think *you* waste more time arguing with me about it |
| 14:39.49 | alterego | I'm younger, I've got more time to waste :P |
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| 14:41.51 | DocScrutinizer | I'm immortal (as somebody found out yesterday I'm actually father of skynet) - I got all the time of the world bitching about meego and explaining why it never will get mature. It has severe congenital defects |
| 14:42.23 | alterego | Well, I hope you eat your words :P |
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| 14:43.56 | DocScrutinizer | I explained my objections in gory detail on meego several times. Answer always been "is it upstream?" and "send patches" - your fault if you're such an arrogant crowd that doesn't want to listen or discuss |
| 14:44.36 | alterego | m'hmm, I'm listening, and I'm discussing |
| 14:44.51 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 14:44.58 | alterego | And I would like to see your contribution. |
| 14:45.01 | alterego | Even if it's just a bug report to get someone else to do it. |
| 14:45.28 | DocScrutinizer | I'm bored to explain same old shit esp to you over and over again |
| 14:45.43 | alterego | m'hmm, fair enough |
| 14:46.16 | DocScrutinizer | you were online when I elaborated on particular issues several times |
| 14:46.27 | DocScrutinizer | for the rest ask stskeeps and lcuk |
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| 14:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | if you need a few searchstrings to skim the chanlogs: sensorfw, lis302, irq-centric design, fso, securityfw - the latter making meego a totally unappealing domain to me, as it brings us fritz chip and DRM linux flavour, and either is implemented in such a way that it doesn't serve its purpose, or deprives users of their root permissions on *_the_system_they_have_to_use_*, or even both. |
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| 15:02.24 | noobmonk3y | blinks |
| 15:02.52 | noobmonk3y | hmmm anyone know rtcom-messaging would be taking aapx 85-99% of my n900's cpu :( |
| 15:03.10 | noobmonk3y | Basically , the phone/messaging part is buggered and has been for weeks, really annoying me :P |
| 15:03.49 | RST38h | The US Navy has broken the existing record for the power of a laser. Their new free-electron laser can burn through 200 feet of steel per second. |
| 15:04.27 | GAN900 | That's cool. |
| 15:06.10 | DocScrutinizer | damn, my MTHELs need an upgrade |
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| 15:07.43 | Corsac | RST38h: I want that on my n900 |
| 15:12.03 | GAN900 | I guess we'd need a bigger battery. |
| 15:12.11 | DocScrutinizer | (securityfw) on maemo Nokia used blobs to ensure nobody is able to change their UX, on meego you bet they'll do the same by using securityfw, so either you use their oh-so-open dialer-ui or you switch to unsecured mode and neither any dialer nor mediaplayer with hw accel nor anything else will work, but you are free to replace that with your own implementations then that run in unsecure mode of OS |
| 15:12.55 | Corsac | did you really read the security framework docs? |
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| 15:13.14 | kpoman | hello ! |
| 15:14.27 | DocScrutinizer | I read about general design of such security frameworks, and that's why I say it either will be crap that doesn't serve the purpose, or it will deprive users from their ability to run mediaplayer same time as gdb, or even both |
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| 15:14.29 | kpoman | guys I tried to install samba and it failed (failed depency on update-inetd) so now I try to remove it and I get an error message... all further apt-get installations fail now. Here is the error: |
| 15:15.04 | kpoman | http://pastebin.com/4mc2HYQV |
| 15:15.06 | kpoman | help ! |
| 15:15.35 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: I think you missed the point |
| 15:16.35 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, but we wont be able to prevent Stux otherwise!!!! |
| 15:16.48 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: and âgeneral designâ doesn't look enough, imho, but the various docs about the architecture, the thesis from reshetova, the wiki pages etc. are nice to understand it |
| 15:16.51 | GAN900 | and the big mean hackers will eat your soul |
| 15:17.11 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: but right now it doesn't seem that 1.2 will have the security fw anyway |
| 15:17.14 | DocScrutinizer | kpoman: subprocess post-removal script returned error <- is the key. This script is somewhere in I guess /var/apt/cache or sth, and it's broken and you need to delete it. My educated guess, no warranty |
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| 15:19.02 | DocScrutinizer | Corsac: I understood enough about kernel and OS in general to see and wrap my head around how DRM is implemented in windows, and how it's inevitably designed in linux as well if it wants to meet the general design goal |
| 15:19.33 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: that's where you miss the point |
| 15:19.39 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
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| 15:20.08 | DocScrutinizer | so point me at it, instead of suggesting lecture of cruft specs |
| 15:20.20 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: it's not (only) about DRM |
| 15:20.48 | DocScrutinizer | it's about making sure only signed apps run in a trused environment |
| 15:20.54 | Corsac | I agree that drms might be a large part of the intended use cases for distributor, but it's not (at all) the whole point |
| 15:21.52 | DocScrutinizer | loading e.g gdb, or any arbitrary original app will taint the trusted environment, which makes it mandatory to purge and clear all trusted processes and their memory |
| 15:22.56 | GAN900 | Corsac, that's the slippery slope he's worried about, I think. |
| 15:23.19 | GAN900 | How much do we trust people shipping MeeGo? |
| 15:23.56 | DocScrutinizer | ergo: compile your own kernel -> no dialer, no mediaplayer (ND,NM). Load any game you developed that needs access to /sys -> ND,NM. Try to tweak any single bit in one of the "trusted" apps -> ND,NM |
| 15:25.14 | DocScrutinizer | and OF COURSE strace, gdb, whatnot else are NOT trusted apps. In fact a trusted kernel will not even have the APIs for such tools to run |
| 15:25.28 | DocScrutinizer | ...in secure operation mode |
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| 15:25.59 | javispedro | there are good examples of a securityfw though |
| 15:26.20 | kpoman | http://pastebin.com/BkKkEwBg |
| 15:26.24 | kpoman | I get more and more errors :( |
| 15:26.35 | kpoman | help ! delete samba. it fails. it blocked aptitude |
| 15:26.41 | javispedro | the webos one, which was an afterthough (original versions of the platform ran everything as root), allows you to disable it with a single command, and everything is back to being run as root again (what they call "dev mode") |
| 15:27.27 | javispedro | of course it is clear they didn't had "drm" In mind when designing that |
| 15:28.55 | Corsac | yes but again that's not a problem with the securityfw itself but rather with the people selling you the device |
| 15:29.01 | Corsac | which is a different matter |
| 15:29.20 | javispedro | er... obviously. but the lack of one usually means the people selling you the device can't use it ;) |
| 15:29.25 | Corsac | having a security subsystem which you can trust *is* a good thing, wether you lack it or not |
| 15:29.36 | Corsac | like* |
| 15:29.37 | Corsac | :/ |
| 15:30.30 | kerio | there's a reason why the 3 laws of robotics had obedience to humans before self-preservation |
| 15:30.39 | kpoman | any ideas on how to clean that aptitude mess ? pleas ! |
| 15:30.49 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: that's not what they are going to implement on meego securityfw. Also it's useless cruft, as any rogue app can do same you can do |
| 15:31.13 | Corsac | ok so clearly don't read anything |
| 15:31.17 | DocScrutinizer | so that's the "is implemented crappy so it doesn't serve the purpose" case |
| 15:31.18 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: na, you do that trick of running apps in carefully crafted chroots with a newly created user |
| 15:31.23 | kpoman | the mess is here: http://pastebin.com/FAgyfNNd |
| 15:32.23 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: and the meego crap is afaik, both things: "user oriented security" and "content provider security" |
| 15:32.26 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: so how is THAT related to implementing signatures into bootloader? A thing they evidently needed for securityfw |
| 15:33.48 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: well I was trying to say that the webos one is a good example of a good one. Because it protects you (_if_ you want to be protected), and doesn't require signature crap nor bootloader changes, etc. |
| 15:34.03 | DocScrutinizer | content provider security is all I talk about here. I'm not interested in meego securityfw's attempts to mimik selinux |
| 15:36.37 | kerio | i thought selinux was good |
| 15:36.40 | kerio | i mean, user-wise |
| 15:36.42 | DocScrutinizer | it is |
| 15:36.45 | kerio | yay |
| 15:36.50 | kerio | let's just... use it |
| 15:37.12 | DocScrutinizer | it's largely unrelated to meego securityfw's evilness though |
| 15:37.21 | kerio | i know, so let's just use selinux |
| 15:38.22 | DocScrutinizer | meego-nokia won't give you a choice - their dialer and mediaplayer WILL be tagged "secure" and WILL refuse to run on a tainted system |
| 15:38.49 | kerio | "system, are you secure?" "yeah yeah, no problem bro" |
| 15:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | well, modulo the fact there will never be such a thing like a nokia-dialer as things are now |
| 15:39.16 | javispedro | kerio: forget about doing that if they use the arm hw crap |
| 15:40.06 | kerio | javispedro: "ok, enabling the hw encryption crap - NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP - alright, we're safe and sound!" |
| 15:40.16 | DocScrutinizer | so replace "nokia-dialer" by <whatever arbitraray app you got from somewhere and really don't want to miss> |
| 15:40.45 | javispedro | kerio: so when it requests to sign something and the hw refuses because "boot was not clean", what do you do? |
| 15:40.52 | kerio | why would it? |
| 15:40.59 | kerio | and why can't you just change that? |
| 15:41.05 | javispedro | because boot was not clean. kernel signature didn't match. |
| 15:41.12 | javispedro | have you used intel txt? (virtually same thing) |
| 15:41.14 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: that's why you need a signed kernel |
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| 15:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | and the mechanism to validate the signature is out of your reach to mess with it |
| 15:41.43 | kerio | you guys are still not considering the fact that it's just a fancy check of some sorts |
| 15:41.52 | kerio | don't break the validation, break the code |
| 15:42.38 | javispedro | so what, go back to pirating? |
| 15:42.44 | DocScrutinizer | the code is outside your reach |
| 15:42.58 | kerio | javispedro: what's the alternative? not running arbitrary code? |
| 15:43.01 | kerio | then yeah |
| 15:43.54 | javispedro | no, we're talking about running nokia code -- and while you can surely break it, doing so would be a "makes headlines around the world" kind of event. |
| 15:44.08 | DocScrutinizer | I.E ROM bbotloader verifies bootloader's signature, bootloader verifies kernel's signature - it's a chain of trust and you can't break its root which is in OMAP bootROM |
| 15:44.38 | kerio | oh, so it's not possible to run a different kernel |
| 15:44.47 | DocScrutinizer | that's the point |
| 15:45.00 | kerio | so meego will fail |
| 15:45.02 | kerio | great |
| 15:45.14 | DocScrutinizer | that's my point |
| 15:45.22 | LjL | wait, am i getting this correctly then that "free" MeeGo would refuse to make phone calls unless you're using a signed kernel...? (last time i asked, they did tell me that "some DRM features" would only be enabled on trusted platforms, but this...) |
| 15:46.01 | javispedro | no, the dialer thing is DocScrutinizer's invention (so far). |
| 15:46.36 | javispedro | (but I wouldn't be much surprised...) |
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| 15:46.40 | LjL | ah so potentially it could be like that, but it depends on which actual applications would decide to be "secure"...? are there any yet? |
| 15:47.01 | javispedro | who knows? meego has no securityfw as of yet, this is all part of the more secretish harmattan |
| 15:47.10 | kerio | well if you can't run a different kernel it'll suck anyway |
| 15:47.14 | kerio | even if the rest is open |
| 15:47.15 | DocScrutinizer | with emphasis on "so far" - and of course: [2011-02-19 16:39:13] <DocScrutinizer> well, modulo the fact there will never be such a thing like a nokia-dialer as things are now |
| 15:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-19 16:40:16] <DocScrutinizer> so replace "nokia-dialer" by <whatever arbitraray app you got from somewhere and really don't want to miss> |
| 15:49.26 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: *for now* they want to allow homebrew kernels, but they are tainted and won't run any app labeled "secure". It's up to the app devels to tag their app like this |
| 15:50.01 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but what makes an app "secure"? |
| 15:50.21 | DocScrutinizer | and of course it needs less that a snip with fingers for Nokia to lock down the bootloader to completely disallow arbitrary kernels |
| 15:50.32 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: signature |
| 15:50.33 | kerio | yeah right |
| 15:50.56 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: yeah but isn't a program just a bunch of assembly? |
| 15:51.03 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: signature with a key that only the device manufacturer owns |
| 15:51.10 | jaska | ugh,a phone like that would be the equivalent of a featurephone? |
| 15:51.38 | kerio | yeah but i don't get what's the problem in just changing the code |
| 15:51.41 | javispedro | kerio: be creative, like sony ;). encrypt the program. |
| 15:52.06 | psycho_oreos | hah sony is hardly creative |
| 15:52.39 | kerio | oh, i see |
| 15:54.17 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: a signature is a md5sum over whole the program text, that's crypted by the private key, and in system you got the public key to decrypt it and check if it's correct |
| 15:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | (largely simplified picture...) |
| 15:54.42 | kerio | oh so the program itself is *not* crypted |
| 15:54.47 | kerio | just change it to not require the signature |
| 15:55.58 | javispedro | that's why I said so just crypt it. |
| 15:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | that's a feature of the kernel, not of the program. But yeah, possibly you could RE and "unsecure" simple apps |
| 15:56.21 | kerio | i doubt a mobile system can support fully encrypted binaries |
| 15:56.28 | *** join/#maemo mpoirier (~quassel@S0106002369de4dac.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 15:56.35 | javispedro | the hw is there... |
| 15:58.45 | pronto | duuude theresa a nokia 770 intenret tablet i can buy , tempting |
| 15:59.30 | DocScrutinizer | the framework is being worked on, by apologists that try to convince you ut's just in your best interest |
| 16:00.02 | DocScrutinizer | mother Theresa? |
| 16:00.41 | kerio | stupid fanboys or just paid people? |
| 16:00.45 | pupnik | justin bieber |
| 16:00.53 | DocScrutinizer | both I guess |
| 16:01.59 | DocScrutinizer | I admit it's quite hard to wrap your head around all of it, so maybe a lot of them doesn't even see the implications and is tricked into thinking this is a good thing, just like users are |
| 16:02.06 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@host-94-248-200-220.kabelnet.hu) |
| 16:02.37 | Venemo_N900 | hi |
| 16:02.42 | DocScrutinizer | hi Venemo_N900 |
| 16:02.58 | Venemo_N900 | hi DocScrutinizer, what's up? |
| 16:03.15 | DocScrutinizer | DRM and securityfw debate |
| 16:03.38 | Venemo_N900 | oh |
| 16:03.41 | pupnik | remembers fondly Til Harbaum telling Quim Gil why N900 DRM would be cracked in a year |
| 16:03.44 | javispedro | there's no debate, there's just collective moaning ;) |
| 16:03.54 | DocScrutinizer | or "why it's about their security, not yours" |
| 16:03.59 | Venemo_N900 | your favourite topic, DocScrutinizer? :P |
| 16:04.11 | DocScrutinizer | somewhat, yeah :-) |
| 16:04.22 | Venemo_N900 | :) |
| 16:04.30 | psycho_oreos | pronto, what would be more amazing is if one could run previous versions of maemo on their n900 with some custom key rebindings. You'll get the fastest hardware available in small form and still play with legacy stuff :p |
| 16:04.49 | pronto | haha |
| 16:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: Corsac liked to argue, haven't heard any new arguments of him, about my lack of understanding about what's the nature of securityfw |
| 16:06.37 | Venemo_N900 | so, educate me. what's the nature of the securityfw? |
| 16:07.38 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 16:07.39 | MohammadAG | how do I remove the sim from an iphon |
| 16:07.42 | MohammadAG | iPhone 4 |
| 16:08.07 | ruskie | take the device... |
| 16:08.09 | ruskie | take a hammer... |
| 16:08.11 | javispedro | what a question |
| 16:08.11 | alterego | MohammadAG: blend it. |
| 16:08.16 | ruskie | apply hammer to device... liberaly... |
| 16:08.28 | alterego | MohammadAG: iPhones use the micro sim or whatever it is right? |
| 16:08.49 | MohammadAG | yeaha |
| 16:08.51 | MohammadAG | -a |
| 16:08.58 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: doesn't it have a user manual? |
| 16:09.00 | alterego | Blend it |
| 16:09.05 | ruskie | Venemo_N900, what's that? |
| 16:09.08 | alterego | Blend it with sulpher |
| 16:09.24 | MohammadAG | there's a pinhole, which is a pain in the asshole |
| 16:09.24 | MohammadAG | I'm not home |
| 16:09.28 | Per_n900 | MuhammadAG: you need a paperclip or something like that. |
| 16:10.05 | MohammadAG | yeah, then what? |
| 16:10.10 | alterego | Yeah there's a little hole you poke, kind of like the failsafe in a cd drive. |
| 16:10.14 | MohammadAG | push forward, or yank it out |
| 16:10.19 | alterego | push |
| 16:10.20 | MohammadAG | ah |
| 16:10.26 | Per_n900 | stick the paperclip in the tiny hole :) |
| 16:10.29 | psycho_oreos | doesn't apple products have instruction manuals on the apple's own website? |
| 16:11.11 | MohammadAG | ah, k |
| 16:11.12 | MohammadAG | got it out |
| 16:11.15 | *** part/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.0.113) |
| 16:11.17 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, on 2G |
| 16:11.43 | psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, well you seem to have internet access from the machine that you are using to chat to us right now ;0 |
| 16:12.03 | psycho_oreos | ffs wrong emoticons |
| 16:12.57 | *** join/#maemo njsf (~njsf@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 16:15.24 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@122.167.150.147) |
| 16:17.50 | ruskie | hmmm it seems the various /sys and /proc optimisations that are on one of the threads on tmo really improved interactivity for me... |
| 16:18.32 | *** join/#maemo beford (~0o0o0@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 16:19.21 | DocScrutinizer | afaik iPhone comes with paperclip ;-P |
| 16:19.55 | psycho_oreos | apple branded paperclip? :D |
| 16:19.56 | DocScrutinizer | the credit card sized "user manual" that gets lost on unpacking |
| 16:20.28 | DocScrutinizer | I heard it has some pin on sticky tape, or sth (hearsay) |
| 16:20.44 | plr__ | anyone here used kqoauth? |
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| 16:26.09 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~user@83.149.8.186) |
| 16:26.56 | wazd | Heya all |
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| 16:30.59 | *** join/#maemo inz (~inzane@papana.fi) |
| 16:31.27 | Venemo_N900 | ruskie: link pls? |
| 16:31.52 | ruskie | lemme dig it up |
| 16:32.21 | ruskie | Venemo_N900, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=948572&postcount=1 |
| 16:32.38 | Venemo_N900 | thx ruskie |
| 16:32.47 | *** join/#maemo perolsen (~perolsen@ti0017a380-1018.bb.online.no) |
| 16:34.41 | dschoepe | I'm thinking about buying a new phone and would prefer Maemo over Android from a technical perspective. Is there still an active (development) community and do you think it will persist even though Nokia jumped ship? |
| 16:35.41 | andre__ | dschoepe: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU exists, however community of course cannot fix issues in closed source components |
| 16:36.34 | dschoepe | andre__: Are there many issues left in those components? |
| 16:36.40 | DocScrutinizer | andre__: we can :-D It's just annoyingly harder than it needs to be, with Nokia not helping in any way whatsoever |
| 16:37.16 | *** join/#maemo rafaelbrandao (96a102c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.150.161.2.200) |
| 16:37.19 | plr__ | this is interesting project as well: http://codex.xiaoka.com/wiki/cordia:start |
| 16:37.46 | DocScrutinizer | dschoepe: maemo is rather decent as is now, of course there's always something left over to augment |
| 16:38.44 | Venemo_N900 | I gotta go now, bb |
| 16:39.00 | alterego | ttyl :) Have a good weekend guys. |
| 16:39.00 | dschoepe | hmm, and MeeGo-development should continue since there are more companies involved than just Nokia, right? |
| 16:39.29 | DocScrutinizer | dschoepe: especially the whle thing you might call telephony stack is missing APIs so you could implement new functionality easily |
| 16:39.41 | dschoepe | Android seems to have very few floss apps, so it seems to be somewhat of a lousy alternative |
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| 16:40.03 | dschoepe | DocScrutinizer: hmm, okay. |
| 16:40.04 | DocScrutinizer | dschoepe: meego handset UX (the "phone OS") is left on its own it seems to me |
| 16:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | there's no other company besides Nokia involved in meego for handset |
| 16:42.01 | dschoepe | DocScrutinizer: So Intel and others are basically only working on MeeGo for tablets? |
| 16:42.15 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 16:42.27 | derf | Well, no one wants an Intel chip in a phone. |
| 16:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | except Intel ;-D |
| 16:44.34 | dschoepe | DocScrutinizer: If you now had to choose between Maemo and an android-based device, would you still go with Maemo, or do you think it's rather a bad decision in the long run? |
| 16:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | maemo, every single day |
| 16:45.07 | ruskie | would pick a maemo device in a heartbeat |
| 16:45.47 | dschoepe | okay, thanks for your input |
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| 16:46.34 | derf | But all the existing Maemo-based devices are pretty dated at this point, and there are no plans for more. |
| 16:46.38 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer++++ |
| 16:46.58 | DocScrutinizer | but that's just me, a linux addict, and your mileage may vary, depending on what you expect of your "phone" |
| 16:47.13 | pillar | Nokia should just release the N9-00 and let us put Maemo5 in it :) |
| 16:47.34 | pillar | I would be quite happy |
| 16:47.40 | pupnik | too |
| 16:47.55 | pupnik | little improvements |
| 16:48.10 | ruskie | would this mythical N9-00 have a physical kb? |
| 16:48.16 | DocScrutinizer | I'd tlerate the "flimpsy kbd slide" - yeah |
| 16:48.21 | DocScrutinizer | tolerate* |
| 16:48.28 | pillar | ruskie: that's the one I'm referring to |
| 16:48.47 | pillar | physical kb is quite important for me |
| 16:49.00 | DocScrutinizer | I'd not tolerate a c-ts though |
| 16:49.02 | pupnik | the chinese made a clone just based on rumors of a prototype |
| 16:49.19 | pupnik | well at least of the appearance of the case |
| 16:49.21 | ruskie | yeah... cts is annyoing... |
| 16:50.19 | pupnik | i'm still in love with the E7 case / design |
| 16:50.28 | ruskie | I like the fact that I can use my N900 with gloves on... |
| 16:50.28 | pupnik | that's an absolute classic imo |
| 16:50.41 | pupnik | oh yes good one |
| 16:51.39 | ruskie | and yes I had to... plenty of times |
| 16:52.12 | pupnik | i wear gloves outside in winter... |
| 16:52.38 | ruskie | I tend to need them in the car as well |
| 16:53.17 | GAN900 | ruskie, doing a lot of street racing? :P |
| 16:53.33 | ruskie | naahh |
| 16:53.38 | ruskie | driving a 13 year old car... |
| 16:53.57 | dschoepe | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, it really annoys me that the vast majority of android apps are proprietary, so Maemo and its ecosystem sound a lot more attractive "on principle". |
| 16:54.02 | ruskie | crappy heating... and near no isolation from the environment |
| 16:54.20 | dschoepe | for example, it still does not have a free (as in freedom) scp-client |
| 16:54.44 | *** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@HSI-KBW-078-043-183-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:54.46 | GAN900 | Also: Android sucks and Google is evil |
| 16:54.58 | DocScrutinizer | dschoepe: well, maemo is a linux, android isn't |
| 16:55.19 | dschoepe | DocScrutinizer: I thought Android pretends to be one, too? |
| 16:55.37 | chx | Android has a Linux kernel, and so what? |
| 16:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | dschoepe: it pretends to be, yes. In fact most of linux developers will disagree |
| 16:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | android has a linux kernel?? so why needs nitdroid an own kernel then? |
| 16:56.25 | chx | the kernel and the userland are two vastly different beings as the Debian kFreeBSD edition shows |
| 16:56.57 | chx | DocScrutinizer: because , of course it's a modified Linux kernel |
| 16:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and linux is a modified minix kernel ;-P |
| 16:57.47 | *** join/#maemo dominikb (~quassel@88-117-23-62.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:57.49 | chx | "The Android kernel code is more than just the few weird drivers that were in the drivers/staging/android subdirectory in the kernel. In order to get a working Android system, you need the new lock type they have created, as well as hooks in the core system for their security model." |
| 16:58.02 | chx | well the Android kernel is quite close to the Linux kernel :) |
| 16:58.08 | DocScrutinizer | and minix a modified bell kernel |
| 16:58.34 | chx | haha |
| 17:00.01 | DocScrutinizer | for all that matters the android tweaks to linux kernel (as quoted by you one line above) make it sufficiently different to a upstream linux kernel so apps written for the latter won't simply port to android |
| 17:00.19 | DocScrutinizer | and even less will android apps port to linux/maemo |
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| 17:00.56 | psycho_oreos | compare that to the amount of iPhone apps being ported to linux/maemo, bar none! |
| 17:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | of course that's about more than just kernel, it's as well about libs and whatnot |
| 17:03.43 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBF6C0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:03.53 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: yeah, IOS is a *nix OS as well, isn't it? |
| 17:05.07 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, never said that |
| 17:05.22 | psycho_oreos | and it isn't IOS, IOS is cisco |
| 17:05.50 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@maemo-hackers.org) |
| 17:06.18 | nox- | moin |
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| 17:06.56 | pupnik | huhu nox- |
| 17:07.46 | nox- | moin pupnik |
| 17:07.55 | pupnik | anyone use minitube for youtube? it always aborts playback for me |
| 17:08.25 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: well, I'm a noob about iPhone. So this was a real question, and probably you're right with IOS |
| 17:08.47 | GAN900 | iOS |
| 17:08.59 | RST38h | yawns, tries swallowing the moon |
| 17:09.11 | RST38h | HELLO all |
| 17:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | bon appetit! |
| 17:09.58 | DocScrutinizer | erryummy, some cheese in my fridge :-) |
| 17:10.18 | javispedro | moo RST38h |
| 17:10.36 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@122.167.154.50) |
| 17:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 17:11.20 | kpoman | anyone got a good link on developing for maemo with python ? |
| 17:11.30 | RST38h | Hey, Doc, javispedro, pupnik, GAN |
| 17:11.33 | kpoman | like a hello world app or whatever to get started ? |
| 17:11.33 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@2001:470:d2ad:1:4a5b:39ff:fe7d:1623) |
| 17:14.12 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:14.53 | kpoman | and also is wxgtk etc... supported on maemo ? |
| 17:15.10 | javispedro | maemo supports whatever you want ;) |
| 17:15.18 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.21.188) |
| 17:15.31 | DocScrutinizer | http://diotavelli.net/PyQtWiki/Creating_GUI_Applications_with_PyQt_and_Qt_Designer http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/index.html http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/ |
| 17:15.37 | kpoman | javispedro: yep but for gui toolkits maybe it just doesnt fit the UI |
| 17:15.41 | kpoman | or whatever... |
| 17:15.52 | javispedro | the native UI is Gtk+ |
| 17:15.58 | javispedro | and there's also a good-looking Qt theme. |
| 17:16.04 | lcuk | http://cobolforgcc.sourceforge.net/ |
| 17:16.20 | ruskie | lcuk, yay |
| 17:16.47 | kpoman | oh ok then |
| 17:17.02 | kpoman | if the base is based on gtk then ok |
| 17:17.18 | DocScrutinizer | http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/firstprograms/ |
| 17:17.34 | kpoman | javispedro: is there a page talking about the API's on maemo ? like the API for battery, for GPS, etc... or is it just direct access to hardware ? |
| 17:18.33 | javispedro | kpoman: depends on your toolkit |
| 17:18.48 | kpoman | javispedro: for example got problems with lot of duplicated contacts after syncing with an exchange server. wanted to update the database by hand. copied it to my ubuntu box, then saw the sqlite db was corrupt or encrypted |
| 17:18.49 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture |
| 17:19.05 | kpoman | so I guess direct access to some stuff is not possible |
| 17:19.23 | javispedro | kpoman: search around with that filename |
| 17:19.32 | kpoman | ok |
| 17:19.46 | *** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.0.55) |
| 17:19.48 | DocScrutinizer | there's an app for that :-) duplicate-contacts or sth like that |
| 17:19.49 | javispedro | you will find also plenty of python maemo applications |
| 17:20.09 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@g9g39y8fhr.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 17:20.22 | MohammadAG | iOS isn't that bad |
| 17:20.28 | MohammadAG | it's worse than that |
| 17:20.33 | DocScrutinizer | ...thanks barisione :-D |
| 17:20.59 | MohammadAG | someone's iphone's mic isn't working |
| 17:21.11 | MohammadAG | they took it to a repair shop, which tried a different mic that didn't work |
| 17:21.31 | MohammadAG | I'm not really surprised, arab store diagnostics are retarded |
| 17:21.48 | psycho_oreos | stupid ISP |
| 17:21.53 | MohammadAG | opened skype, app crashed (segfault?), memo app can record fine, so the mic's fine |
| 17:22.05 | MohammadAG | wonders how to flash it without losing the unlock |
| 17:22.34 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha |
| 17:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | get a decent phone! |
| 17:23.07 | MohammadAG | it's not mine |
| 17:23.26 | kpoman | DocScrutinizer I have that app but got thousands of duplicated. I need to manually click on 1500 merge options.... un-human |
| 17:24.05 | DocScrutinizer | kpoman: the app is FOSS, just tweak it a tiny bit to automate it |
| 17:24.12 | MohammadAG | tap the title bar and find duplicate contacts |
| 17:24.25 | MohammadAG | then you just select the the contacts that match |
| 17:24.36 | kpoman | MohammadAG: with thousands of duplicates it is not so funny |
| 17:24.39 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@178-190-15-129.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:25.38 | MohammadAG | who said it was supposed to be funny? |
| 17:25.47 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 17:25.49 | kpoman | MohammadAG: not you :p |
| 17:25.54 | MohammadAG | and seriously, thousands? |
| 17:26.04 | DocScrutinizer | kpoman: anyway: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API |
| 17:26.04 | kpoman | MohammadAG: anyway any repetitive action could be scripted :p |
| 17:26.16 | MohammadAG | how long does the contacts app take to start? :p |
| 17:26.51 | kerio | MohammadAG: just restore with a custom firmware, and reinstall the unlock |
| 17:27.13 | kpoman | MohammadAG: it is quite fast with 850MHz lol |
| 17:27.30 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 17:27.33 | kerio | haha |
| 17:27.35 | kpoman | why does that lame thing happen when sync with exchange ? |
| 17:27.41 | kerio | takes note to never buy anything from kpoman - ever |
| 17:27.49 | kpoman | hehe |
| 17:27.55 | DocScrutinizer | because exchange is lame? |
| 17:28.00 | kpoman | oops |
| 17:28.16 | MohammadAG | lots of corps use it DocScrutinizer |
| 17:28.22 | MohammadAG | even though it's lame |
| 17:28.35 | DocScrutinizer | I know, but that's not proving anything |
| 17:28.43 | MohammadAG | I mean, I use windows daily on public PCs |
| 17:28.52 | MohammadAG | I can't go around installing debian on them |
| 17:28.59 | DocScrutinizer | except those corps are lame, maybe ;-) |
| 17:29.28 | DocScrutinizer | whatever, bbl |
| 17:29.43 | kerio | MohammadAG: well, with a really fast installer... |
| 17:30.03 | MohammadAG | kerio, mssed the point I see :p |
| 17:30.20 | kpoman | ok I am just trying to figure out how to access the addressbook from python |
| 17:30.25 | kerio | write a worm that uses a windows bug to replace windows with ubuntu! |
| 17:31.01 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure which bug I should exploit, lots of them exist |
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| 17:32.09 | kpoman | is it somewhere on a dbus thing ? |
| 17:32.25 | kpoman | the contacts api ? |
| 17:33.10 | MohammadAG | well, for accounts, telepathy |
| 17:34.32 | kpoman | for contacts on the contact base app ... I just printed print bus.list_names() ... got a lot of stuff |
| 17:38.36 | kpoman | ok here it seems to describe the process: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Accessing_APIs_without_Python_bindings ... I wonder if ther eis a higher level api than having to stick to ctypes |
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| 17:54.11 | kpoman | ok this should help: bzr branch lp:python-osso-abook :p |
| 17:54.13 | kpoman | cool |
| 17:54.46 | *** join/#maemo ibansal (~ishan@122.177.139.91) |
| 17:55.01 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: prior to CSSUing rtcom-dialer-ui I'd suggest to tackle contacts-ui, and exploit osso_abook_contact_chooser_set_capabilities() and extended vCard attributes (as in /* By convention, any arbitrary vCard files not in the specification should begin with "X-" */ #define VCARD_FIELD_USERNAME "X-FOO-BAR-TETRIS-USERNAME" ) to implement multiple addressbooks, generic contact-ringtone display and editing, and a lot more |
| 17:56.12 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | contact-groups, as in Nokia's 6210 and probably even before... :-) |
| 17:56.59 | DocScrutinizer | ringtones assigned to contact-group rather than particular contact |
| 17:57.03 | DocScrutinizer | etc pp |
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| 17:58.05 | korhojoa | hugha |
| 17:58.13 | korhojoa | what does one do while in texas |
| 17:59.17 | RST38h | korhojoa: shoot turkeys from his porch? |
| 17:59.22 | RST38h | with a shotgun? |
| 18:02.20 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, why ringtones assigned per contact group??? yes as an addition... but I prefer per contact as well(not that I'm actually using it)... |
| 18:03.01 | DocScrutinizer | I wasn't to suggest "instead of" but "in addition to, as alternative" |
| 18:03.05 | ruskie | ahh |
| 18:03.20 | ruskie | well didn't exactly make it clear to me... |
| 18:03.44 | DocScrutinizer | soory, I've been fuzzy |
| 18:04.07 | ruskie | hehe |
| 18:05.16 | *** part/#maemo ibansal (~ishan@122.177.139.91) |
| 18:07.56 | *** join/#maemo cardinal (~cardinal@a79-169-143-91.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 18:07.58 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: basicaly *every* contact is member of a contacts-group (usually "default" group). You can select the ringtone for "default" as you did right now, you can assign a particular contact to a new group, you can have a ringtone for that child of "default" group overide the one defined in "default" (or not), you can (or not) assign a ringtone to a particular contact overriding the ringtone inherited from whatever contact-group the contact |
| 18:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | is in |
| 18:08.47 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust215.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:08.50 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 18:09.43 | *** join/#maemo bugzy (~bugzy@adsl-99-95-8-104.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:09.58 | ruskie | sorry for being annoying about it... I just got more used to asking exact things from people since I started having a job(3-4 years ago)... because a ton of people just assume that I know what they want me to do or they assume I know what they are talking about |
| 18:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | you might even want to reference to a profile rather than a mere ringtone |
| 18:10.30 | *** join/#maemo retro2 (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 18:10.51 | DocScrutinizer | and those profiles can change in their properties depending on environment (as in time-of-day, location, whatever) |
| 18:11.17 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: much appreciated |
| 18:12.27 | ruskie | that's actually the only thing that changed for me with starting work... |
| 18:12.46 | jacekowski | wow |
| 18:12.53 | jacekowski | another N900 user |
| 18:13.32 | ruskie | ? |
| 18:14.06 | DocScrutinizer | those profiles are not identical to the profiles yu select in status area, like "silent" and "default", rather the setting of these user-profiles is an input for the contact-profiles to change their properties depending (but not necesserily according to) the usr-profile-setting |
| 18:14.29 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@80.85.106.221) |
| 18:14.29 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 18:14.59 | jacekowski | i'm in london and i've just seen another N900 user |
| 18:15.04 | ruskie | ahh |
| 18:15.11 | jacekowski | sitting next to me on a train |
| 18:15.36 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 18:15.42 | DocScrutinizer | partytime |
| 18:16.32 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) |
| 18:16.42 | jacekowski | ehhh |
| 18:18.00 | chx | congrats you found the other n900 user in london. |
| 18:18.08 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 18:18.32 | jacekowski | and train left on time |
| 18:19.06 | *** join/#maemo t7g_ (~t7g@d47-69-29-118.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 18:19.34 | chx | ok now we have proof you are not in london rahter at home an hallucinating |
| 18:19.53 | chx | first an n900 user then a train leaving on time, is the easter bunny the next? |
| 18:20.43 | DocScrutinizer | mehehehe |
| 18:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | nah, somebody walking by, frowning at the N900s, pulling out his N9, laughing evilly and walking on |
| 18:23.54 | chx | now, that would be supreme proof of being high :) |
| 18:24.16 | chx | that thing you just mentioned which i refuse to name simply doesnt exist |
| 18:24.47 | MohammadAG | it does |
| 18:24.51 | MohammadAG | I've seen it |
| 18:25.15 | MohammadAG | (on the interwebz of course!) |
| 18:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | but... but... IT's THERE! http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 |
| 18:25.42 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 18:26.14 | DocScrutinizer | that's no photoshop hoax |
| 18:26.28 | MohammadAG | i think that's actually dead DocScrutinizer |
| 18:26.29 | MohammadAG | it's too old to be THE N9 |
| 18:26.29 | MohammadAG | true |
| 18:26.30 | MohammadAG | but I think it was killed |
| 18:26.43 | DocScrutinizer | sshhhhhhhh! ;-) |
| 18:27.34 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you lag! |
| 18:27.48 | MohammadAG | 3G, i shouldn't |
| 18:27.54 | MohammadAG | you lag! |
| 18:27.57 | MohammadAG | 1s lag fyi |
| 18:28.33 | DocScrutinizer | :28 :28 :29 :30 |
| 18:28.37 | chx | remember that Nokia phone some years ago? |
| 18:28.40 | chx | 5-10 |
| 18:28.43 | DocScrutinizer | you're not typing THAT fast |
| 18:28.45 | chx | it was a very unique form |
| 18:28.53 | chx | and never actually got released |
| 18:28.54 | kerio | i really want a n9 but with a better OS |
| 18:29.00 | chx | it looked like, i dunno, a seashell |
| 18:29.20 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@85.183.48.167) |
| 18:30.35 | chx | nokia 7700 |
| 18:30.41 | chx | i knew it was something close in name to the table |
| 18:30.44 | chx | t |
| 18:31.07 | DocScrutinizer | if I lag, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2011-02-19T20:26:28 does as well |
| 18:31.51 | DocScrutinizer | even :28 :28 :28 :29 |
| 18:32.13 | chx | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7700 same as N9: would've been nice if it gets released. |
| 18:33.05 | chx | what i read the last week was that the n9-00 is canned and (a vastly inferior) n9-01 might be coming |
| 18:33.07 | chx | MEH. |
| 18:33.17 | SpeedEvil | chx: I have one! |
| 18:33.27 | chx | one what? |
| 18:33.36 | kerio | i have a n900 too |
| 18:33.39 | SpeedEvil | 7700 |
| 18:34.08 | DocScrutinizer | eeeeeeek fuggly |
| 18:34.10 | Jartza_ | I had couple of those darth vader phones |
| 18:34.11 | chx | wow seriously? |
| 18:34.15 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:34.21 | chx | SpeedEvil: that's one rarity, congrats! |
| 18:34.27 | SpeedEvil | I bought it for resale,but that fell through |
| 18:34.56 | chx | If it eats too much space i am happy to take it over and even pay you a hundred or two |
| 18:35.09 | Jartza_ | that's one ugly sidetalking phone :) |
| 18:35.36 | SpeedEvil | Oh - no - it wasn't the 7700 |
| 18:35.39 | SpeedEvil | It was a similar one |
| 18:35.53 | chx | i'd been surprised, even here if someone held a real 7700 |
| 18:35.56 | Jartza_ | hmm, 7700 does have sidetalking |
| 18:36.02 | chx | that thing is rare as hen's teeth |
| 18:36.13 | Jartza_ | I was working at Nokia :) |
| 18:36.26 | Jartza_ | In SDK development |
| 18:36.55 | Jartza_ | we had like 10 of those darth vaders |
| 18:37.02 | Jartza_ | later on it was replaced with 7710 |
| 18:37.27 | DocScrutinizer | look, it even has a *real* IMEI: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277343 |
| 18:37.51 | Jartza_ | but S90 was bad |
| 18:38.03 | DocScrutinizer | Proto B2 HWID0724 |
| 18:38.05 | Jartza_ | way too unstable and not that nice to use |
| 18:38.36 | SpeedEvil | http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/product-support/nokia-7600 |
| 18:38.39 | SpeedEvil | Is what I have. |
| 18:38.42 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@178-190-15-129.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:38.59 | SpeedEvil | Which I would be quite willing to get rid of for any reasonable offers :) |
| 18:39.04 | chx_afk | Jartza_: what darth vader phone |
| 18:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | 004402131919718 |
| 18:39.39 | Jartza_ | chx_afk: nokia 7700 |
| 18:39.54 | Jartza_ | http://www.gsmjar.com/images/Nokia/7700/2057-L.JPG |
| 18:39.56 | chx_afk | Jartza_: you had ten of THAT????? |
| 18:40.01 | Jartza_ | yes |
| 18:40.05 | DocScrutinizer | wonders idly if that IMEI would open up the tablet firmware download site |
| 18:40.16 | Jartza_ | well not ME exactly, but our SDK division |
| 18:40.20 | Jartza_ | where I was working |
| 18:40.28 | chx_afk | sniff |
| 18:41.42 | Jartza_ | why? :) |
| 18:41.45 | Jartza_ | it was baaaaaad |
| 18:41.58 | Jartza_ | even the latest versions of S90 were really unstable |
| 18:42.25 | DocScrutinizer | X-D |
| 18:42.56 | *** join/#maemo tooofooo (~toofoo@host81-156-137-133.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:44.14 | leafpad | is there any offline installer of scratchbox? |
| 18:44.50 | leafpad | i mean the Maemo 5 sdk |
| 18:46.30 | *** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.166.132.55) |
| 18:55.13 | javispedro | nope. |
| 18:56.40 | leafpad | sigh |
| 19:07.43 | piggz_ | leafpad: there is a virtualbox image that makes things dead easy |
| 19:10.52 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs53.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 19:16.29 | *** join/#maemo Fatty_ (~Fatty@209.44.107.1) |
| 19:18.52 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:21.02 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.21.188) |
| 19:21.17 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 19:21.44 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 19:23.18 | DocScrutinizer | I really love how a ssh session over WLAN, when I leave flat for 60min, it reestablishes WLAN connection when back home and the shell is still alive and functional |
| 19:23.31 | ruskie | hehe |
| 19:23.55 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 19:24.09 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@178-190-15-129.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:25.03 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, that would be more cool if it weren't for the wifi powersaving bug |
| 19:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | which is? |
| 19:26.25 | nox- | those kernel messages about the missed beacon frames, makes the device send endless probe requests eating battery |
| 19:27.55 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, lemme see |
| 19:33.09 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-212.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 19:34.13 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.114.68) |
| 19:34.57 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:37 IroN900 kernel: [123257.724792] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request |
| 19:34.58 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:38 IroN900 kernel: [123259.090118] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up |
| 19:35.00 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:39 IroN900 wlancond[10383]: SIOCGIWAP: 00:00:00:00:00:00 |
| 19:35.01 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:39 IroN900 kernel: [123259.808746] wlan0: no probe response from AP cf1bb52c - disassociating |
| 19:36.06 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:48 IroN900 wlancond[10383]: Too many failures: 4 |
| 19:36.07 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:48 IroN900 kernel: [123268.667785] wlan0: direct probe to AP f0:7d:68:85:72:f8 timed out |
| 19:36.09 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:48 IroN900 kernel: [123268.772674] wl1251: down |
| 19:36.45 | DocScrutinizer | seems it tries for 9s then gives up and switches to GPRS and powers down WLAN |
| 19:37.11 | javispedro | that happens on lower signal conditions |
| 19:37.30 | *** part/#maemo kennae (kennae@psykedelia.org) |
| 19:38.22 | trx | mine just repeats [123257.724792] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request |
| 19:38.44 | trx | (dmesg tho) |
| 19:39.00 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:52 IroN900 kernel: [123272.473846] wl1251: down |
| 19:39.24 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 20:02:51 IroN900 kernel: [123872.003845] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7) |
| 19:39.26 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 20:02:51 IroN900 wlancond[10383]: Scan issued |
| 19:39.38 | DocScrutinizer | can't see anything bad in there |
| 19:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | trx: hidden SSID? |
| 19:42.15 | trx | no |
| 19:42.23 | DocScrutinizer | then I dunno |
| 19:42.30 | *** part/#maemo Fatty_ (~Fatty@209.44.107.1) |
| 19:42.32 | trx | i just copied your message |
| 19:42.42 | trx | because they are the same |
| 19:42.59 | DocScrutinizer | the above is me leaving flat @ 19:51 |
| 19:44.07 | *** join/#maemo chadi (~chadi@unaffiliated/chadi) |
| 19:45.20 | javispedro | was kinda surprised on battery life with xchat and gprs |
| 19:45.33 | javispedro | I could nearly get it to work for a full day... |
| 19:45.48 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, like trx when it happens i see one message wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request |
| 19:45.54 | DocScrutinizer | WLAN detects the connection loss, the device switches to GPRS, and WLAN is starting a scan for available APs exactly the 10min later which I set in settings-internet |
| 19:46.00 | nox- | after another until i traceroute the google dns |
| 19:46.45 | trx | i get those messages like every second |
| 19:46.48 | nox- | device otherwise stays `connected' to wifi all the time, and the `ap' is like 2 meters away... |
| 19:46.50 | DocScrutinizer | during these 10min the wlan chip is powered down |
| 19:47.04 | trx | and i am 2 meters away from the router |
| 19:47.24 | nox- | trx, yeah then we see the same issue |
| 19:48.21 | nox- | and iirc the `AP cf1bb52c' everyone sees is a %pM *printf thats not correctly expanded |
| 19:48.56 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@85-238-126-198.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) |
| 19:49.24 | nox- | i.e it tries to print the mac |
| 19:49.35 | trx | damn, 40 days uptime gone :/ |
| 19:49.54 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:49.57 | trx | tried to edit a 300mb file and it reboted :/ |
| 19:50.07 | nox- | ew |
| 19:51.17 | DocScrutinizer | trx: nox-: http://paste.debian.net/108220/ |
| 19:51.35 | DocScrutinizer | looks absolutely ok, when connected to AP as well |
| 19:51.50 | trx | wait, ill paste my sys log |
| 19:52.05 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.156.87) |
| 19:52.20 | ZogG | !last ugly americans |
| 19:52.30 | ZogG | oops wrong chan |
| 19:52.30 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, yeah you seem to be seeing pretty much expected behaviour while we see the bug |
| 19:52.48 | nox- | me and trx |
| 19:53.19 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 19:55.29 | DocScrutinizer | away to test more roaming, errr for dinner |
| 19:55.49 | nox- | bon appetit :) |
| 19:57.12 | trx | http://pastebin.com/xKvTxnYF |
| 19:58.49 | javispedro | trx: doesn't look constant. |
| 19:59.17 | javispedro | if it depends on activity, it might be an AP issue. |
| 19:59.35 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 19:59.55 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:00.29 | *** join/#maemo APTX (~APTX@phpBB/developer/APTX) |
| 20:00.33 | nid0 | looks fairly constant, its basically every second |
| 20:00.48 | nid0 | except a 45 sec gap before the last two |
| 20:01.16 | javispedro | and what happened there? |
| 20:01.18 | nox- | trx, what kind of ap do you use? |
| 20:01.22 | trx | i haven't really tested if its constant or not, i just noticed it |
| 20:01.54 | trx | TP-LINK TD-W8901G |
| 20:02.01 | chadi | does anybody notice reduced home screen performance when using the calendar widget with 9 items? |
| 20:02.54 | nid0 | jeez, thats 1 cheap router these days |
| 20:03.21 | trx | i got it from my adsl isp |
| 20:04.50 | trx | (for free, so i cant complain) ;) |
| 20:05.32 | SpeedEvil | ponders cuing the 'free' rant. |
| 20:05.42 | SpeedEvil | mehs. |
| 20:05.46 | javispedro | routers suck |
| 20:06.00 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/78321551.png woo |
| 20:06.03 | trx | yeap |
| 20:06.03 | SpeedEvil | Sucking less today |
| 20:06.25 | nid0 | synced at what speed? :p |
| 20:06.45 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/78214031.png - was earlier. |
| 20:06.52 | SpeedEvil | 4400 at the moment |
| 20:07.26 | javispedro | where's my gigabit ethernet with proper final 802.11n with its three antennas, builtin dsl modem, not-useless firmware and power usage figures that don't make it look like 1950's tech? |
| 20:08.11 | nid0 | javispedro: theres plenty about |
| 20:08.28 | javispedro | other than d-i-y, show me. |
| 20:10.16 | nid0 | netgear's dgnd3300 is a good example |
| 20:11.01 | nid0 | theyre finally releasing a dg variant of the 3700 in (supposedly) q2 as well |
| 20:11.42 | Jartza_ | hmmh |
| 20:12.13 | javispedro | it's not gigabit ethernet, it's not good firmware, and no idea about power usage. |
| 20:12.34 | Jartza_ | oh yeah, -27°C outside :P |
| 20:13.15 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@adsl-93-52-82.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:15.07 | DocScrutinizer | cf1af52c vs cf1bb52c |
| 20:15.17 | javispedro | hum |
| 20:15.39 | nid0 | the firmware works fine and is replaceable, power usage is fairly good across the board on netgear's current range - the dgn3500 has gigabit (misread) but im not entirely sure that's multi antenna |
| 20:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 20:16.17 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: looks like two coarse-grained (page) kernel allocations ;) |
| 20:16.23 | nid0 | the dg variant of the wndr3700's been the one to wait for though |
| 20:16.39 | *** join/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-76-175-234-46.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:16.40 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 19:52:37 IroN900 kernel: [123257.724792] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request |
| 20:16.44 | *** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@a88-112-162-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:17.28 | DocScrutinizer | Feb 19 20:55:54 Nokia-N900-51-1 kernel: [ 192.905944] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1af52c - sending probe request |
| 20:19.00 | DocScrutinizer | wireshark might help |
| 20:19.02 | javispedro | they are printing a pointer value when they wanted to print a string? |
| 20:21.19 | DocScrutinizer | next thing I'd do is fire up wireshark and dump the packets OTA, then search for cf1af52c |
| 20:21.23 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:21.53 | DocScrutinizer | but next thing I'll do is heading out for decent dinner |
| 20:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | D-Link DR615 fwiw |
| 20:23.00 | RST38h | Does it have lasesrs? |
| 20:23.24 | RST38h | s/lasesrs/laserses my preciousss, yesss, laserses |
| 20:24.40 | javispedro | everytime I see one of those routers I puke |
| 20:25.13 | javispedro | a MIPS < 100Mhz CPU with less than 16MiB of RAM that virtually uses more power than a laptop |
| 20:25.18 | *** join/#maemo buntfalke (~nobody@unaffiliated/buntfalke) |
| 20:26.04 | javispedro | I _HOPE_ I'm being naive here and assuming there's some component that uses lots of power, and this is not the ripoff it seems to be. |
| 20:27.27 | javispedro | the netgear stuff seems to use 0.5Ghz MIPS, so I would be surprised if does not have a fan already =) |
| 20:28.20 | microlith | alas, my netgear with its 600MHz MIPS has no fan |
| 20:28.31 | nid0 | speaking for the 3700 at least its at 600mhz with no fan |
| 20:29.09 | javispedro | the 3700 I was reading about =) |
| 20:29.33 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 20:30.05 | nid0 | supposedly it's rated consumption is 6w, i've never tested it myself though so no idea if that's with the wireless transmit power dialled down |
| 20:30.32 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 20:30.44 | javispedro | nid0: reading that on power brick? |
| 20:30.56 | javispedro | cause I can't find it on spec... |
| 20:31.14 | nid0 | no, thats just what google repeatedly spits out checking now, I dont have a 3700 here myself to check it now, i've just used it a few times elsewhere |
| 20:31.54 | nid0 | still using a stone-age dg834 until the dsl variant of the 3700 comes out |
| 20:32.07 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~user@85.26.155.146) |
| 20:32.30 | *** join/#maemo b004n (~user@173-10-175-74-BusName-washingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:33.20 | GAN900 | Cisco E3000 for fun times. |
| 20:33.31 | nid0 | it lacks a dsl modem though |
| 20:33.50 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (~alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 20:33.52 | microlith | the 3700 is real nice with openwrt on it :) |
| 20:34.16 | microlith | the v2 has double the flash though, which would make it easier to install things without running out of space |
| 20:36.06 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 20:36.15 | RST38h | Employer Demands Facebook Login from Applicants |
| 20:36.46 | RST38h | snickers |
| 20:37.37 | *** join/#maemo skython (~Sky@p5B226145.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:37.48 | *** join/#maemo ptl (~patola@unaffiliated/ptl) |
| 20:38.43 | nid0 | that's basically when you decide you can do better than work as a prison officer, imo |
| 20:39.32 | zerojay | Wow, that's fucked. |
| 20:39.42 | zerojay | That's when you create a fake account. |
| 20:40.36 | RST38h | has no Facebook account. What should he do? :) |
| 20:40.48 | internetishard | The same as I do |
| 20:40.49 | Corsac | register one just in case? |
| 20:40.52 | internetishard | Everything! |
| 20:40.59 | internetishard | (And don't submit) |
| 20:41.07 | Corsac | so you can hand it to a future employer |
| 20:41.13 | Corsac | âsorry, there's not much...â |
| 20:41.29 | internetishard | Any job that requires a FB account is not a job I want |
| 20:41.31 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@g9g39y8fhr.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 20:41.49 | nid0 | well, its also against facebook's tos to share your access details with anyone |
| 20:44.25 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr_ (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 20:45.25 | GAN900 | Facebook |
| 20:45.39 | GAN900 | Thank goodness I'm out of that. |
| 20:45.43 | GAN900 | zerojay, yo. |
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| 20:50.59 | jacekowski | internetishard: well, most employers will google you anyways |
| 20:51.11 | internetishard | Nothing wrong with that |
| 20:51.18 | *** join/#maemo timeless (58730824@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 20:51.21 | jacekowski | internetishard: if he asks you for facebook login you can at least give him information you want to give hin |
| 20:51.24 | jacekowski | him* |
| 20:51.25 | timeless | sighs |
| 20:51.30 | jacekowski | rather than some random shit he finds |
| 20:51.39 | internetishard | I've no FB |
| 20:51.46 | timeless | Down With Love's finnish subtitles translated "milton hershy" as "karl fazer" |
| 20:51.57 | nid0 | maybe he'd like the keys to my house to go through my filing cabinet while he's at it though |
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| 20:53.26 | internetishard | yeah, give him the keys to your underground child porn studio |
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| 20:53.50 | GAN900 | nid0++ |
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| 20:57.04 | zerojay | GAN900: Yo. |
| 21:02.15 | trumee | nid0, netgear DG834 is very reliable |
| 21:02.36 | nid0 | indeed, i've had mine without fault for years and years and years |
| 21:03.18 | trumee | nid0, i haven't found anything as good as that. only downside is that it doesnt support custom firmware |
| 21:03.44 | trumee | but maybe that is a good thing :p |
| 21:03.48 | nid0 | well, i'll finally be replacing mine the day netgear release the dgnd3700 |
| 21:03.48 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@cs181013153.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:04.26 | trumee | how about buying the cable version of 3700 and using 834 as dumb modem |
| 21:04.36 | nid0 | the main problem with almost all modern routers is manufactures have their selection of features, and put several features in each |
| 21:04.44 | nid0 | but dont offer anything with *all* of them |
| 21:05.13 | trumee | nid0, i would like the power saving features on the router |
| 21:05.45 | nid0 | trumee: i've been tempted, and I do have some super basic old netgear modem kicking around anyway, but when the 3700 first came out I thought id give it a bit to let the kinks get worked out, then I thought, well, may as well wait for the modem variant |
| 21:05.55 | nid0 | which is taking way longer to get released than I imagined |
| 21:06.37 | trumee | nid0, UAPSD iirc it is called. cant find that in any router |
| 21:07.05 | trumee | nid0, N900 has support for it, but routers dont :( |
| 21:07.56 | trumee | nid0, dont think even 3700 has it. |
| 21:09.13 | nid0 | afaik it should do |
| 21:09.33 | Azog | hostapd hast options for UAPSD resp. WMM |
| 21:10.25 | trumee | Azog, yes but i cant find any router which supports it. |
| 21:10.49 | Azog | trumee: how can you check if it is supported? |
| 21:11.13 | trumee | Azog, there is something on the openwrt wiki on how to check it |
| 21:13.00 | *** join/#maemo timeless (58730824@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 21:15.25 | trumee | Azog, this mentions it, http://www.howardforums.com/printthread.php?t=1186443 |
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| 21:17.30 | Azog | trumee: unfortunately i have a aalix-board with an ath9k-card running debian, so no nvram-magic for me |
| 21:18.41 | Azog | but fixing the powersaving-mode would be nice for me, my n900 often hangs if i connect with ssh to it |
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| 21:20.02 | *** part/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:20.33 | trumee | Azog, did you have to buy the ath9k card seperately? |
| 21:20.44 | koala_man | how can I run a command on boot on my n900? I tried making an init script and linking it into /etc/rc{2,3,4}.d, but it doesn't appear to run |
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| 21:20.56 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 21:20.57 | Azog | trumee: yes, there is a mini-pci socket |
| 21:21.05 | trumee | koala_man, /etc/event.d ? |
| 21:21.30 | kamui__ | koala_man, use rc.local |
| 21:22.10 | trumee | Azog, advantage of alix is that it is upgradable and runs regular debian x86? |
| 21:22.56 | koala_man | kamui__: does that work even though no such file exists, and /etc/init.d and /etc/event.d don't contain any mention of it? |
| 21:23.35 | Azog | trumee: exactly |
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| 21:24.02 | kamui__ | my bad, I created an rc.local and linked it to execute last at all runlevels, totally forgot about that |
| 21:24.08 | trumee | Azog, that is nice. how about storage, usb pen drive? |
| 21:24.24 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-212.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 21:24.31 | kamui__ | but I don't have an N900 anymore, gimme a minute, let me see if I can find you some docs |
| 21:24.55 | Azog | trumee: internal sd-flash and laptop-ide header, 2 usb ports |
| 21:25.31 | trumee | Azog, nice one. where can i buy it :p |
| 21:25.34 | Azog | trumee: http://pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm |
| 21:26.38 | trumee | Azog, how about the wlan card? |
| 21:27.42 | Azog | trumee: i bought everything from varia-store.com, they sell wlan cards, too |
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| 21:31.51 | trumee | I have set the wifi PSM mode to medium on N900 and it rapes the battery |
| 21:31.53 | MohammadAG | well, #ubuntu is useless, might as well ask here |
| 21:32.21 | MohammadAG | I can't login cause my / is mounted as ro |
| 21:32.26 | trumee | MohammadAG, best community is on #gentoo |
| 21:32.30 | MohammadAG | problem is, idk why, i fsck'd it |
| 21:32.38 | jacekowski | trumee: i'm banned there |
| 21:32.46 | trumee | jacekowski, why? |
| 21:32.54 | jacekowski | i don't really remember |
| 21:32.59 | jacekowski | it was almost 5 years ago |
| 21:33.07 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 21:40.38 | budfive | MohammadAG: this is your n900 or your computer? Are you getting errors when logging in? |
| 21:40.57 | MohammadAG | PC |
| 21:41.08 | MohammadAG | Yeah, gnome power manager defaults |
| 21:41.35 | MohammadAG | meh |
| 21:41.47 | budfive | should you have rw access? why is it ro? |
| 21:41.49 | MohammadAG | f'd up /etc/fstab, now I can't fix it |
| 21:41.54 | MohammadAG | No idea |
| 21:42.13 | budfive | if it's really ok to rw, you can remount it with those permissiosn |
| 21:42.17 | MohammadAG | how do I remount it? |
| 21:42.27 | budfive | one sec. let me look it up |
| 21:42.35 | budfive | mount -o remount something something |
| 21:42.42 | budfive | yeah |
| 21:42.46 | budfive | mount -o remount,rw |
| 21:42.49 | Corsac | / |
| 21:43.22 | MohammadAG | thanks :D |
| 21:43.51 | budfive | :) |
| 21:44.04 | MohammadAG | resumes boot up |
| 21:44.13 | MohammadAG | hopefully it'll allow me to login now |
| 21:44.50 | budfive | I'd look into why it was mounted ro to begin with. Maybe there was some file system issue it didn't want to exacerbate. Read the logs. |
| 21:45.07 | Corsac | budfive: he fucked the fstab manually, afaict :) |
| 21:45.18 | budfive | oh yeah. I get it now |
| 21:45.27 | Corsac | sometime you don't need any help to brick your computer :) |
| 21:47.51 | MohammadAG | no |
| 21:48.02 | MohammadAG | i fucked it up while attempting to fix this :p |
| 21:49.19 | MohammadAG | and it's still failing :/ |
| 21:50.29 | Corsac | can you paste the output of âmountâ? |
| 21:50.52 | MohammadAG | well, no :p |
| 21:50.59 | MohammadAG | idk how to use wpa_supplicant |
| 21:51.07 | MohammadAG | always relied on network-manager |
| 21:51.13 | MohammadAG | that's fine anyway |
| 21:51.32 | MohammadAG | what permissions should /tmp have? |
| 21:53.21 | MohammadAG | It keeps saying "The configuration defaults for GNOME power manager have not been installed correctly" |
| 21:53.28 | MohammadAG | Please contact yourself |
| 21:53.34 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:53.49 | timeless | http://www.ketv.com/r/14133442/detail.html |
| 21:54.41 | budfive | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:56.02 | Corsac | and sticky |
| 21:57.10 | ieatlint | huh, i never noticed /tmp was sticky |
| 21:57.15 | ieatlint | learnt something |
| 21:58.32 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-58-20.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 21:59.04 | Corsac | you're not supposed to erase other people's files |
| 21:59.47 | MohammadAG | so chmod 777 /tmp should do? |
| 21:59.55 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:00.05 | jacekowski | if it's a phone |
| 22:00.26 | ieatlint | or i guess 1777 for the sticky bit |
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| 22:01.16 | MohammadAG | meh |
| 22:01.31 | MohammadAG | Guess I'll have to reinstall |
| 22:02.40 | MohammadAG | which is something I'm not doing /me goes back to fixing |
| 22:04.26 | timeless | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7673591.stm |
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| 22:07.45 | ieatlint | sues xenu |
| 22:09.11 | comawhite | lolcat: I heard from someone that it's the paid one that gets it not the free one =\ |
| 22:10.08 | *** join/#maemo Trapp (~russell@bw1pool1-13.maysvilleky.net) |
| 22:10.36 | trumee | timeless, lol |
| 22:10.42 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 22:10.53 | MohammadAG | why does it show 100% used on / |
| 22:11.04 | MohammadAG | when size is 114GB and Used is 109GB |
| 22:11.20 | timeless | trumee: the only entity you can't sue in us federal court is the US Gov, it has to consent to be sued |
| 22:11.33 | timeless | although it seems that if you try to sue god, you'll be dismissed |
| 22:12.02 | trumee | timeless, crazy |
| 22:14.10 | *** join/#maemo Trizt (nobody@h-168-17.A192.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 22:14.53 | timeless | note that the court was ok with the target of the suit :) |
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| 22:17.35 | timeless | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States in case people are curious about the other part |
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| 22:23.14 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: 5% root exclusive? |
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| 22:24.46 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: I'm sure I don't want to know more than I do, about US' fucked up justice and laws |
| 22:25.12 | timeless | DocScrutinizer: soverign immunity is a fairly standard thing |
| 22:26.17 | timeless | try suing a king in his country.. |
| 22:26.54 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, good point |
| 22:27.00 | MohammadAG | my / is actually full then |
| 22:28.00 | MohammadAG | wow |
| 22:28.11 | MohammadAG | that was the cause |
| 22:28.14 | MohammadAG | thanks DocScrutinizer |
| 22:28.22 | Corsac | timeless: must be the reason why I'm king of my castle |
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| 22:53.30 | javispedro | so you can't use god because it has sovereign inmunity? |
| 22:53.34 | javispedro | *imm |
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| 22:57.44 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, better than the rest of the planet, still, at least. :P |
| 22:58.06 | javispedro | thought God was american after all ;) |
| 22:59.27 | timeless | javispedro: you can sue god |
| 22:59.38 | timeless | it's just that the courts will more or less laugh you out |
| 22:59.51 | timeless | note that foreign sovereigns don't have immunity :) |
| 22:59.57 | timeless | (china just got sued) |
| 23:01.39 | ieatlint | you actually can sue the US gov for some things |
| 23:01.53 | ieatlint | people have done it, for instance, to remove "in god we trust" from our money |
| 23:01.55 | timeless | right, when it waves immunity |
| 23:02.18 | jacekowski | ieatlint: well, then you are suing yourself |
| 23:02.21 | ieatlint | uh, pretty sure the US gov didn't wave its right there |
| 23:02.40 | jacekowski | ieatlint: isn't it that you are suing "the people" then or something |
| 23:03.14 | ieatlint | hmm, an interesting distinction, perhaps |
| 23:03.30 | ieatlint | the gov lawyers typically represent "the people" |
| 23:03.51 | timeless | http://web.archive.org/web/20071016110205/http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/06/12/state/n153942D73.DTL |
| 23:04.01 | timeless | is the suit ieatlint references |
| 23:04.55 | ieatlint | yeah, he also did the pledge of allegiance, as referenced there |
| 23:05.34 | ieatlint | but non-god related suits are common.. we infamously challenge the legality of laws all the time, for instance (like gay marriage bans, for recent headlines) |
| 23:06.34 | ieatlint | i think there are just restrictions on suing for damages |
| 23:06.46 | ieatlint | injunctions are allowed methinks |
| 23:10.01 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-58-20.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:10.03 | GAN900 | ieatlint, or used to. |
| 23:10.28 | *** join/#maemo qurk_ (~qurk@99.91.15.231) |
| 23:10.34 | GAN900 | (represent the people) |
| 23:10.57 | ieatlint | when was that? :P |
| 23:12.29 | GAN900 | ieatlint, right after the Constitution was first ratified to right before the Whiskey Rebellion |
| 23:13.03 | GAN900 | Potentially arguably under the Articles of Confederation, too. |
| 23:13.09 | GAN900 | But that was a different government. |
| 23:13.56 | ieatlint | hah |
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| 23:14.36 | till| | anyone got he .deb file for the pidgin-n800-led plugin? the repository seems to be down :/ |
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