IRC log for #maemo on 20110218

`00:03.36`	`*** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`00:08.04`	`*** join/#maemo tank-man (1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net)`
`00:13.12`	`pupnik`	`Venemo: it appears omap3 lets the dsp do this`
`00:13.22`	`*** join/#maemo Gizmokid2005 (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com)`
`00:16.24`	`Venemo`	`pupnik: yea`
`00:34.19`	`*** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com)`
`00:34.50`	`*** join/#maemo Gizmokid2005 (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com)`
`00:38.53`	`*** join/#maemo retro\|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz)`
`00:39.19`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`00:42.08`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker2 (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`00:43.10`	`*** join/#maemo merlin_1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at)`
`00:44.44`	`*** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@212-183-121-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`00:46.48`	`jonwil`	`still has no N900 projects to work on :(`
`00:50.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`Were any n900s actually sold locked to a provider?`
`00:51.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`That is - can't use any SIM`
`00:51.35`	`jonwil`	`I have never heard of any`
`00:52.04`	`*** join/#maemo jakdarippa (~jakdaripp@71-223-124-184.phnx.qwest.net)`
`00:53.29`	`*** join/#maemo daxt (~daxt@112.135.77.194)`
`00:54.27`	`jonwil`	`Seems all the good ideas hit bottlenecks because the code needed is closed and all the GREAT ideas hit bottlenecks because the code needed is closed and will never be opened (i.e. dialer source)`
`00:59.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`:/`
`00:59.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`There are still useful apps to be written.`
`01:00.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`For example, a little script to turn the flash on as flashlight when the camera shutter is opened pointing downwards.`
`01:06.28`	`*** join/#maemo mullein (~mullein@184-106-149-136.static.cloud-ips.com)`
`01:14.53`	`*** join/#maemo daxt (~daxt@112.135.89.76)`
`01:16.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Venemo: pupnik: please suggest how to change hardware to enable dsp audio without cpu involvement`
`01:18.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`SpeedEvil: yes, there are several ebay offers of SIM-locked N900`
`01:19.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`SpeedEvil: I mean, nobody would say "it's SIM-locked" when it actually isn't?`
`01:19.30`	`*** join/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@smtp.elizovotv.ru)`
`01:19.38`	`ds3`	`DocScrutinizer: no hw change. just sw`
`01:20.58`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I doubt that is compatible with internal SoC architecture`
`01:22.17`	`ds3`	`that is`
`01:22.27`	`ds3`	`we just talked about it about an hour or so ago =)`
`01:22.47`	`ds3`	`it is more of keeping ALSA happy then anything else`
`01:28.06`	`*** join/#maemo daxt (~daxt@112.135.92.55)`
`01:29.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, that's a silly way to put it. Even if it's possible to directly DMA audio data from DSP to MCBSP2 interface and correctly transfer and handshake it to codec, you still have the problem that then you have a MCBSP2 interface exclusively used by this DMA, and no other process can output any audio. That's absolutely unrelated to ALSA, except of course for ALSA offering a sw mixer so you could send concurrent audio streams to the codec -`
`01:29.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`this has to be done in CPU land, but that's not ALSA's fault`
`01:31.50`	`ds3`	`all I am saying is ALSA does not know about having to relinquishing control to the DSP`
`01:32.14`	`ds3`	`the DSP can indeed DSP to the McBSP`
`01:34.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bah, /etc/init.d/alsa stop`
`01:35.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what else should ALSA know about DSP?`
`01:35.37`	`ds3`	`ALSA probally needs to stay around to keep the codec happy (i.e. volume controls)`
`01:35.42`	`pupnik`	`i would be perfectly happy to let a program block all other audio`
`01:35.52`	`pupnik`	`if i were using the device as an mp3 player`
`01:35.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ALSA needs an audiocard. The only one available is MCBSP2. If ALSA can't access it, then ALSA can not run`
`01:36.01`	`ds3`	`ALSA just needs to get its grubby little hands off the DOUT/FS data`
`01:36.09`	`ds3`	`No`
`01:36.14`	`ds3`	`let system boot up with ALSA`
`01:36.18`	`pupnik`	`i think ds3 is correct here`
`01:36.33`	`ds3`	`then inform the driver to not talk to the McBSP for data purposes`
`01:36.36`	`ds3`	`tell DSP to use it`
`01:36.48`	`ds3`	`when DSP is done, tell driver to reassert control over the McBSP data`
`01:37.01`	`ds3`	`there is a McBSP library; the alsa SoC code calls into that`
`01:37.11`	`ds3`	`I have mucked in this area before`
`01:37.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah, you can do whatever you want. I'm just wondering what's the purpose of all this`
`01:37.30`	`*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/council/GeneralAntilles)`
`01:37.44`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (~Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)`
`01:39.09`	`*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`
`01:39.27`	`pupnik`	`DocScrutinizer: to unload cpu`
`01:39.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`why?`
`01:40.14`	`pupnik`	`to see if power can be saved, or to let another process use all cpu`
`01:40.22`	`ds3`	`or to avoid broken audio`
`01:40.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`save power? do you really think DSP is more economic with power than CPU?`
`01:41.00`	`pupnik`	`that's why i said 'to see if'`
`01:41.08`	`ds3`	`rather then having to process compressed audio + uncompressed audio; the CPU just takes uncompress audio and tosses it over to the DSP and never to see it again`
`01:41.23`	`ds3`	`yes, the DSP is more economic with power then the CPU`
`01:41.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`oh, yeah. Now we ask Nokia to implement support for DSP into ALSA, to prove it's nonsense :-P`
`01:41.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ds3: duh, never ever`
`01:42.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`I've wondered in the past about getting the CPU to shut down, and to spit out a pre-decoded buffer to the soundcard`
`01:42.34`	`ds3`	`it can retired more data per clock then NEON for one`
`01:42.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so what?`
`01:43.19`	`*** join/#maemo daxt (~daxt@112.135.92.55)`
`01:43.21`	`SpeedEvil`	`That doesn't say much about its 'idle' power`
`01:43.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`DSP isn't economic, DSP is fast`
`01:44.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's economic if it's needing to do a lot of work.`
`01:44.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and fast is utterly useless for audio`
`01:45.16`	`ds3`	`I say let's try it and settle it once and for all :D`
`01:46.01`	`SpeedEvil`	`Please do!`
`01:46.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`I will sponsor you one cream cracker, if you get it working.`
`01:46.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`Two, if you get it working tonight.`
`01:47.19`	`ds3`	`:D`
`01:47.37`	flat`	`:D`
`01:50.06`	`*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@pool-108-14-87-241.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:51.05`	`*** join/#maemo xnt14 (~xnt14@unaffiliated/xnt14)`
`01:54.29`	`*** join/#maemo daxt (~daxt@112.135.66.240)`
`02:08.46`	`*** join/#maemo Ken-Young (~Ken@pool-68-160-8-200.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`02:10.37`	`Ken-Young`	`Does anyone know how to classify a Maemo Garage project in the "Trove Software Map" ?`
`02:11.17`	`*** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@port549.ds1-hvi.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`02:18.18`	`*** join/#maemo KevinB (~KevinB@85-168-239-148.rev.numericable.fr)`
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`02:22.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`NFC what this Trove map is`
`02:23.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`seen it as well on frontpage of projects`
`02:23.42`	`Venemo`	`Ken-Young: doesn't matter, noone will care`
`02:24.03`	`*** join/#maemo maheshk (~makulkar@63.116.149.163)`
`02:24.35`	`Ken-Young`	`Venemo, Now what kind of attitude is THAT? (I know, realistic).`
`02:25.17`	`Venemo`	`Ken-Young: well, the only place where Trove is visible is the garage page, which is rarely visited by anyone.`
`02:25.31`	`Ken-Young`	`I managed to find the weird pathway through the admon options once, and classified one project, but never could find it again.`
`02:25.48`	`Ken-Young`	`s/admon/admin/`
`02:33.14`	`*** join/#maemo Pillum (~quassel@p4FF0C0AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`02:36.24`	*** join/#maemo flat` (~flat@aluekeskus.kaisakoi.com)
`02:42.26`	`Venemo`	`MohammadAG: you here?`
`02:54.56`	`Venemo`	`I've just found the weirdest bug ever.`
`02:55.39`	`*** join/#maemo krayon (~krayon@pdpc/supporter/28for7/krayon)`
`02:55.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Anybody for some N900 pixels? http://www.flickr.com/photos/43738815@N04/5454555285/in/contacts/`
`02:57.08`	`nox-`	`nice :)`
`02:59.00`	`pupnik`	`morning nox`
`02:59.07`	`nox-`	`moin pupnik`
`03:00.16`	`pupnik`	`nice GeneralAntilles - if i sell a N900 i'll use that as the product pic`
`03:06.38`	`*** join/#maemo RobbieThe1st (~RobbieThe@174-31-49-28.spkn.qwest.net)`
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`03:12.05`	`*** join/#maemo apol_ (~apol@62.57.54.145.dyn.user.ono.com)`
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`03:12.33`	`apol_`	`can somebody tell me on what repository can I find liblzma1?`
`03:14.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`apol: http://maemo.org/packages/view/liblzma1/`
`03:14.57`	`apol`	`so extras-devel?`
`03:15.59`	`*** join/#maemo npouillard (~npouillar@2001:41d0:1:4941::1)`
`03:16.16`	`apol`	`awesome :D thanks`
`03:16.18`	`ShadowJK`	`and extras-testing`
`03:26.59`	`*** join/#maemo npouillard (~npouillar@2001:41d0:1:4941::1)`
`03:28.34`	`*** join/#maemo newbie007 (46b32a83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.42.131)`
`03:31.11`	`newbie007`	`does any one know if it is possible/ feasible to put maemo on a nook. color?`
`03:31.17`	`*** join/#maemo maybeHere (cl@p4FE9F9B0.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`03:33.10`	`newbie007`	`thiss nook thing has android. in order to install notepad i need to grant location aware security setting`
`03:33.37`	`*** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-173-53-37-97.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)`
`03:34.15`	`newbie007`	`sorry cannot type weell i.m using a" "nook`
`03:35.07`	`rm_work`	`lol cause the notepad needs to be able to track you down in case you type something that triggers a homeland security alert`
`03:35.15`	`rm_work`	`(assuming you're in the US)`
`03:35.45`	`rm_work`	`otherwise, s/homeland security/secret police/`
`03:36.00`	`rm_work`	`it's a synonym really`
`03:36.44`	`newbie007`	`it is rather creepy. if i were at a mall i would ask for his home address to use a pen`
`03:37.19`	`newbie007`	`n.t. i woulddnn.t`
`03:37.45`	`newbie007`	`it is rather creepy. if i were at a mall i would ask for his home address to use a pen`
`03:38.19`	`newbie007`	`this android os scares me and i want mt freedom back`
`03:38.33`	`rm_work`	`lol`
`03:40.13`	`newbie007`	`tinstall the androd OS I HAd to tell them twice - don.t. upload my gps`
`03:41.28`	`newbie007`	`i mean thanks for asking. but no way and stay away from my family`
`03:42.34`	`newbie007`	`if android were person it would be a creepy old man stairing at people in a park`
`03:43.23`	`newbie007`	`protect the homeland!`
`03:44.27`	`newbie007`	`lets hire the old man in the park to go through our bags to keep us" safe.`
`03:45.33`	`newbie007`	`maemo is like a guy in a park that if you said hi to je would probably say hi back`
`03:46.12`	`lolcat`	`newbie007: Lol`
`03:46.26`	`lolcat`	`What is the easiest way to install meego?`
`03:48.54`	`*** join/#maemo daxt (~daxt@112.135.87.115)`
`03:48.59`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-2-244.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
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`03:55.37`	`korhojoa`	`lolcat: read the wiki`
`03:55.42`	`lolcat`	`Wiki?`
`03:55.49`	`korhojoa`	`wiki.`
`04:00.22`	`*** join/#maemo swc\|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)`
`04:01.01`	`pupnik`	`04:33 < newbie007> thiss nook thing has android. in order to install notepad i need to grant location aware security setting`
`04:01.04`	`pupnik`	`ha ha ha`
`04:01.43`	`pupnik`	`pictures users wrapping their nooks in tinfoil`
`04:02.28`	`chx`	`imagine angry users throwing their crappy ereader out the window`
`04:02.40`	`chx`	`is getting a Sony as he is fed up with the nook.`
`04:02.44`	`*** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com)`
`04:03.25`	`pupnik`	`i have an arthos a70s which can run angstrom and probably meego`
`04:03.32`	`pupnik`	`*archos`
`04:04.23`	`*** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@dslb-094-216-224-013.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`04:04.24`	`chx`	`I will have a Sony that runs for weeks without charging and has a big eInk Pearl screen. Win.`
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`04:33.29`	`comawhite`	`I am sshing in my phone. I can't find the .sounds folder`
`04:36.14`	`Venemo`	`comawhite: 'cd /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/'`
`04:37.11`	`comawhite`	`yeah I get "Could not enter folder fish://root@192.168.1.109/home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/`
`04:37.25`	`Venemo`	`interesting`
`04:37.48`	`comawhite`	`yeah my usb port on my n900 is fucked up, so I need to find another way to add music on the phone`
`04:37.57`	`Venemo`	`mhm`
`04:37.58`	`korhojoa`	`comawhite: heh, same here`
`04:38.04`	`Venemo`	`you can add music to any other folder btw.`
`04:38.09`	`korhojoa`	`how come it doesn't show?`
`04:38.14`	`comawhite`	`nfc`
`04:38.21`	`comawhite`	`I logined in as root :S`
`04:38.25`	`Venemo`	`korhojoa: because stuff beginning with '.' are hidden in linux`
`04:38.28`	`korhojoa`	`what's fish?`
`04:38.37`	`comawhite`	`ssh login via kde :P`
`04:38.52`	`korhojoa`	`Venemo: i know that, i meant the folder, why he can't access it`
`04:39.09`	`Venemo`	`korhojoa: I have no idea, sorry`
`04:39.14`	`korhojoa`	`comawhite: can you access it on the device?`
`04:39.27`	`korhojoa`	`if you can, just rsync it off using the device`
`04:40.19`	`comawhite`	`some folder called Nokia N900/Audio clips/`
`04:41.02`	`pahartik`	`korhojoa: Is "/home/user/MyDocs" mounted?`
`04:42.16`	`korhojoa`	`pahartik: it's not my device`
`04:42.26`	`comawhite`	`pahartik, it's my device`
`04:43.14`	`korhojoa`	`well then`
`04:43.20`	`pahartik`	`comawhite: Is "/home/user/MyDocs" mounted?`
`04:43.20`	`comawhite`	`now it's showing`
`04:43.23`	`korhojoa`	`i'll leave you to figure it out`
`04:43.26`	`johnx`	`does fish show any folders?`
`04:43.33`	`comawhite`	`i got it working now`
`04:43.38`	`korhojoa`	`i have to go, flight attendants want me to turn off my phone`
`04:43.39`	`comawhite`	`I don't know what I did`
`04:43.42`	`korhojoa`	`comawhite: great :D`
`04:43.44`	`comawhite`	`korhojoa, hehe`
`04:43.47`	`comawhite`	`thanks guys`
`04:44.06`	`korhojoa`	`remember, #maemo is your friend`
`04:44.13`	`comawhite`	`:D`
`04:44.41`	`comawhite`	`too bad the ssh speed sucks balls`
`04:48.53`	`*** join/#maemo StanStill (~Lantz@c-68-32-133-214.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`04:49.04`	`StanStill`	`hello`
`04:49.32`	`StanStill`	`anyone in here own a Nokia N900?`
`04:50.52`	`ieatlint`	`i think at least one person in here does`
`04:51.17`	`pahartik`	`StanStill: Yes`
`04:53.55`	`krayon`	`I'd go as far as saying more than one. At least 3.`
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`04:59.57`	`*** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80-186-134-92.elisa-mobile.fi)`
`05:00.14`	`Venemo`	`check this out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=949457#post949457`
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`05:59.25`	`newbie007`	`greetings, anyone have any idea if maemo could run on a nook color? The specs are similar, both arm screen is different`
`06:00.05`	`pupnik`	`Is there a linux distro for nook color?`
`06:00.28`	`newbie007`	`you can put android on it, it comes with android`
`06:00.49`	`pupnik`	`Well nobody has ported maemo to another system because much of it is closed`
`06:01.23`	`newbie007`	`I have heard that it is more closed than open`
`06:01.39`	`RobbieThe1st`	`That's true with regards to the UI mostly`
`06:01.40`	`pupnik`	`But http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer this could run perhaps`
`06:01.41`	`RobbieThe1st`	`And a few drivers`
`06:01.52`	`newbie007`	`really I want the repoistories`
`06:02.25`	`RobbieThe1st`	`Pupnik: I'd try Ubuntu before Mer - I tried loading Mer on an x86 tablet PC with a 1GHZ processor and 1GB of ram. It worked at oh... 1fps.`
`06:02.59`	`pupnik`	`ok`
`06:03.09`	`RobbieThe1st`	`Could be simply needing a better OpenGL driver or something... But still, it's not like you'll find one for the Nook most likely`
`06:03.18`	`pupnik`	`i don't remember mer needing GL`
`06:03.54`	`RobbieThe1st`	`I don't know if it needs it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's almost required for proper transition support.`
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`06:10.34`	`slonopotamus`	`https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/curl_7.18.2-8lenny4/`
`06:10.43`	`slonopotamus`	`what's up with it?`
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`06:21.41`	`slonopotamus`	`X-Fade: /\`
`06:27.40`	`krayon`	`Venemo: That looks awesome!`
`06:29.59`	`krayon`	`Venemo: Any plans to make the pieces "puzzle" shaped? Not too difficult I would think and would make it even cooler.`
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`07:53.21`	`toadpole`	`hey anyone using carman on n900?`
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`08:05.50`	`khertan`	`Morning`
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`08:15.48`	`pupnik`	`muhu khertan :)`
`08:16.28`	`*** join/#maemo lolcat (~lolcat@unaffiliated/energy-/x-7653247)`
`08:16.49`	`lolcat`	`I can't wait untill I get my new phone subscription!`
`08:16.53`	`khertan`	`'lo pupnik`
`08:17.19`	`pupnik`	`did you see you can get White and Gold n900 cases? )`
`08:17.28`	`khertan`	`pupnik, i'll try today the last meego 1.1 version on n900 :)`
`08:17.35`	`pupnik`	`cool`
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`08:17.59`	`pupnik`	`http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-replacement-case-shell-white-p-3672.html`
`08:18.02`	`pupnik`	`imagine a white N900`
`08:18.34`	`khertan`	`pupnik, i more interested by an n900 with a induction charger`
`08:18.39`	`khertan`	`like the one on palm pre :)`
`08:19.46`	`lolcat`	`pupnik: I would like one of those, I lost my stylus :(`
`08:19.48`	`pupnik`	`that is sexy sure`
`08:19.53`	`khertan`	`pupnik, but interesting as some parts are missing on my n900 plastic cover :)`
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`08:20.15`	`pupnik`	`i'm pretty sure these are chinese aftermarket copies`
`08:20.32`	`khertan`	`of course`
`08:20.35`	`pupnik`	`but it would be very strange to have a white n900`
`08:21.22`	`ds3`	`much rather have an n900 with a compass`
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`08:21.48`	`khertan`	`pupnik, indeed ... too bad no more maemo summit ... i ll did it :)`
`08:21.51`	`khertan`	`just for fun`
`08:21.52`	`khertan`	`:)`
`08:22.04`	`khertan`	`s/i ll/else i ll`
`08:22.05`	`pupnik`	`:)`
`08:22.23`	`ds3`	`has anyone actually built a compass for the N900?`
`08:22.30`	`khertan`	`and the gold edition : http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-faceplate-cover-gold-p-3673.html`
`08:22.32`	`khertan`	`;)`
`08:22.56`	`pupnik`	`bling`
`08:23.15`	`pupnik`	`you can see the poor moulding / uneven color`
`08:23.21`	`khertan`	`pupnik, unfortunatly no aluminium one ... will be perfect for overclocking :)`
`08:23.27`	`khertan`	`pupnik, indeed`
`08:23.37`	`pupnik`	`which is almost funnier`
`08:23.48`	`pupnik`	`"how to prevent your n900 from being stolen"`
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`08:24.25`	`khertan`	`pupnik, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfRq_AUnsw0`
`08:24.26`	`lolcat`	`I want to buy a second phone, some cheap ass shit that I can use with a twin sim. Any suggestions?`
`08:24.45`	`lolcat`	`I need one with long battery life, for drunken escapades and such`
`08:24.54`	`chem\|st`	`MohammadAG: something of your hildon-home eats up ram after a while, I got no 3rd party widgets running so if you need further testing or logs don't hesitate to gimme some instructions, I am off for the weekend so query me and I will have a look in a few days`
`08:25.08`	`pupnik`	`ah ty khertan`
`08:25.32`	`pupnik`	`bling :)`
`08:25.47`	`khertan`	`pupnik, the author didn't recommand to buy cheap cover ...`
`08:25.56`	`khertan`	`he say him come from ebay`
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`08:26.57`	`khertan`	`pupnik, but it s still black around the screen`
`08:27.06`	`khertan`	`and so it s not really beautiful`
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`08:27.45`	`pupnik`	`not totally bad though`
`08:28.09`	`pupnik`	`anybody have a speaker upgrade?`
`08:28.30`	`pupnik`	`maybe dremel-out some space and put in n810 speakers?`
`08:29.08`	`khertan`	`lol`
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`08:29.28`	`pupnik`	`hey if the case + keymat = $19, why not go crazy`
`08:29.31`	`chem\|st`	`how do I search ram mappings of a program again? I am looking at hildon-home attached processes atm and cannot find the bug anymore where the instructions are`
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`08:47.56`	`chem\|st`	`can someone have a look into his hildon-home process smaps and tell me how big his libgtk is?`
`08:48.22`	`chem\|st`	`cat /proc/$(pidof hildon-home\|cut -d' ' -f1)/smaps > smaps-hildon-home`
`08:48.54`	`chem\|st`	`and what is your percentage of ram usage of hh`
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`08:49.02`	`EsEhAr`	`do we have pulseaudio-alsa package in maemo5 ?`
`08:49.34`	`chem\|st`	`damn locale-archive eats 2MB... what for?`
`08:49.44`	`RobbieThe1st`	`Um... google it? Or try "apt-cache search" with extras-devel enabled?`
`08:49.58`	`RobbieThe1st`	`(@EsEhAr)`
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`08:50.25`	`EsEhAr`	`I check but not find`
`08:50.33`	`chem\|st`	`RobbieThe1st: got a sec to pastebin me your smaps?`
`08:50.46`	`RobbieThe1st`	`Sure, why not`
`08:51.13`	`chem\|st`	`and the percentage of your ram usage of hildon-home would be nice`
`08:51.45`	`EsEhAr`	`its not even here http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=pulseaudio&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same`
`08:51.48`	`chem\|st`	`o_O locale archive has double entries or eats 4MB...`
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`08:54.47`	`RobbieThe1st`	`http://pastebin.com/kZjpXxp6`
`08:55.11`	`RobbieThe1st`	`Note, there's two pids for hildon-home; one gave that, the other a much smaller file`
`08:55.22`	`RobbieThe1st`	`This was the higher PID`
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`08:55.58`	`chem\|st`	`RobbieThe1st: my [heap] is 34MB, thanks...`
`08:56.06`	`chem\|st`	`yours 10...`
`08:57.01`	`RobbieThe1st`	`Huh. Mind you, I only have a few buttons on my desktop; two desktops enabled, and only three widgets(media player, FM transmitter and pedometer)`
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`08:57.51`	`chem\|st`	`I got additionaly to you weather and calendar..., and buttons but no widgets`
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`08:58.12`	`alterego`	`media player is my only widget`
`08:58.28`	`chem\|st`	`and calendar and contacts seems to be loaded from hildon-desktop not home`
`08:58.39`	`chem\|st`	`alterego: what is your heap`
`08:59.24`	`alterego`	`38M free with 2 xterms open atm`
`08:59.46`	`alterego`	`With one microb 7M free :D`
`09:00.14`	`chem\|st`	`no the smaps heap shows the max usage of it, not the current`
`09:00.40`	`alterego`	`under proc meminfo?`
`09:01.01`	`chem\|st`	`cat /proc/$(pidof hildon-home\|cut -d' ' -f1)/smaps > smaps-hildon-home`
`09:01.32`	`chem\|st`	`it is one of the first 10 entries with [heap] in the line`
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`09:02.22`	`chem\|st`	`.oO(I actualy try to get my head off the edge while waiting on my blood parameters)`
`09:03.00`	`chem\|st`	`even messed up hildon-home from PR1.2 had a max heap of 22MB`
`09:03.01`	`alterego`	`size 3700kB`
`09:03.17`	`chem\|st`	`for heap?`
`09:03.25`	`alterego`	`yup`
`09:03.29`	`chem\|st`	`thats awesome`
`09:03.47`	`alterego`	`says swap 2132kB`
`09:03.56`	`alterego`	`is that how much is swapped out atm?`
`09:04.16`	`chem\|st`	`at heap it is the max swapped by hh ever`
`09:04.24`	`chem\|st`	`since last start`
`09:04.29`	`alterego`	`Ah, cool`
`09:04.42`	`chem\|st`	`at least that is what I understand from smaps`
`09:04.51`	`alterego`	`Right`
`09:05.18`	`chem\|st`	`all other things is the size the size of the loadable module, but does not mean that it needs that much ram when running`
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`09:39.04`	`khertan`	`Seems it ll be time to update my n900 to maemo pr1.3 :)`
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`09:42.06`	`pupnik`	`watches the tumbleweeds`
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`10:04.14`	`rafal_g`	`How do I get around adding new client for specific portocol type (eg instead of the default rtcom-messaging-ui) ?`
`10:04.33`	`lolcat`	`Can I install android from the appstore (or whatever it is called)?`
`10:06.02`	`rafal_g`	`lolcat: Can't tell if serious or just trolling :\|`
`10:06.34`	`lolcat`	`I am serious`
`10:06.47`	`alterego`	`You want to install android from Ovi store?`
`10:06.58`	`lolcat`	`No, the other program installer`
`10:07.09`	`lolcat`	`Program manager`
`10:07.18`	`alterego`	`lolcat: well, why don't you read the numerous nitdroid threads ..`
`10:07.32`	`alterego`	`There are plenty of howtos on howto instrall it ..`
`10:08.07`	`lolcat`	`Anyone for ubuntu?`
`10:08.08`	`MohammadAG`	`there's also a howto on howto read a howto :P`
`10:08.13`	`lolcat`	`Do I need acomputer?`
`10:08.30`	`alterego`	`lolcat: I don't F*cking know, read the howto`
`10:08.53`	`alterego`	`You will more than likely need a Linux running computer ..`
`10:09.05`	`alterego`	`But don't ask questions that can all be answered in the installation howto.`
`10:09.17`	`alterego`	`Which you've clearly not read ..`
`10:15.03`	`lolcat`	`Hmm`
`10:17.08`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@78.147.15.127)`
`10:17.08`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman)`
`10:17.14`	`lardman`	`morning all`
`10:17.37`	`*** join/#maemo abbera_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-vnlrlgmcxbppkdeg)`
`10:17.40`	`lardman`	`just a quickie, what does one need to put in a pro file to use qtmobility-12 ?`
`10:18.19`	`lardman`	`I seem to remember it was something like tack -12 onto the end of the names of the packages to be pulled in`
`10:19.49`	`*** join/#maemo abbera__ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-akyzwxtmoejivpdk)`
`10:20.26`	`rafal_g`	`What's the best way of gettin QtMobility 1.1 on N900?`
`10:20.42`	`alterego`	`apt-get install`
`10:20.46`	`lardman`	`install it from Extras-devel?`
`10:22.04`	`*** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod)`
`10:22.47`	`rafal_g`	`extras-devel you say? I'll have a look`
`10:23.19`	`lolcat`	`http://wiki.nitdroid.com/index.php?title=N900-Autoinstaller`
`10:23.23`	`lolcat`	`Is it that easy?`
`10:23.48`	`alterego`	`lolcat: really the wrong place to ask, follow the instructions.`
`10:26.56`	`*** join/#maemo kwek (~kwek@154.Red-88-19-18.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`10:27.51`	`rafal_g`	`How do I get it from extras-devel? Do I have to add an entry to sources.list?`
`10:28.02`	`MohammadAG`	`#nitdroid`
`10:28.26`	`lardman`	`rafal_g: is this sb or on-device?`
`10:28.31`	`alterego`	`I'm sure there's a wiki page for this`
`10:28.44`	`rafal_g`	`lardman: I need both`
`10:29.09`	`lardman`	`on-device copy the Extras settings and just tack -devel on the end where Extras is`
`10:29.23`	`lardman`	`then take a look on-device in /etc/apt/* and see what it has done`
`10:29.23`	`MohammadAG`	`lardman, CONFIG += mobility12`
`10:29.23`	`MohammadAG`	`maemo5 { CONFIG += mobility12 } else { CONFIG += mobility }`
`10:29.32`	`*** mode/#maemo [+o alterego] by ChanServ`
`10:29.37`	`lardman`	`MohammadAG: thanks, no - needed`
`10:30.14`	`*** mode/#maemo [-o alterego] by ChanServ`
`10:32.16`	`rafal_g`	`lardman: Where do I copy it from?`
`10:35.10`	`lardman`	`you changed it in ham?`
`10:36.21`	`*** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@nat/nokia/x-dljtbtkshnkdtsjz)`
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`10:36.49`	`achipa`	`X-Fade: ping`
`10:37.19`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly\|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly)`
`10:38.03`	`lolcat`	`It told me to backup, any sence in doing that?`
`10:38.11`	`lolcat`	`And to update?`
`10:38.24`	`lolcat`	`And do I need a power kernel?`
`10:39.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lolcat: I'm not interested in what a android-installer tells you`
`10:39.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`take it elsewhere`
`10:39.37`	`*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`10:39.43`	`khertan`	`hum .... about update too :)`
`10:39.57`	`khertan`	`i ve a little problem to install last maemo release`
`10:39.57`	`*** join/#maemo mk8 (~torello@ip-212-141.sn1.eutelia.it)`
`10:40.02`	`khertan`	`ask me to backup`
`10:40.08`	`khertan`	`so i do it ...`
`10:40.12`	`khertan`	`but install stop`
`10:40.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what does it say?`
`10:40.45`	`khertan`	`ok ... next time i ll read completely the message`
`10:40.46`	`khertan`	`:)`
`10:41.02`	`khertan`	`backup and connect it to your pc to flash it`
`10:41.05`	`khertan`	`:)`
`10:41.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's a helpless way to tell you there've been problems with SSU`
`10:41.39`	`khertan`	`:)`
`10:41.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`either some incompatibilities or too few free space`
`10:42.05`	`khertan`	`i think that the pr1.1 was the reason`
`10:42.06`	`khertan`	`:)`
`10:42.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah`
`10:43.56`	`lardman`	`bbiab`
`10:43.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though it should update a ootb PR1.1 OTA no problem. But takes ages`
`10:44.00`	`*** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs55.swisscom-mobile.ch)`
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`10:45.12`	`khertan`	`oh to reboot an n900 ... remove the backcover while swap on sd`
`10:45.13`	`khertan`	`...`
`10:45.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I know better ways`
`10:45.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-P`
`10:46.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`BTDT.`
`10:46.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`Thoughnot with n900`
`10:46.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`but yeah I guess reboot is best the system can do`
`10:46.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`I've actually argued ages ago that it's not.`
`10:46.59`	`*** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@ppp-93-104-113-135.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`10:47.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`Per-user swap would be a nice thing to add.`
`10:47.07`	`khertan`	`yeah ... open the keyboard violently`
`10:47.16`	`*** join/#maemo abbera_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-oahojpvccfaeybde)`
`10:47.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`So you can say 'only not-root gets to use this swap device'`
`10:47.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`SpeedEvil: nice`
`10:48.14`	`khertan`	`oh ... funny default language after flash for regular n900 are english`
`10:48.22`	`khertan`	`for the preproduction one it s finnish`
`10:48.23`	`khertan`	`:)`
`10:48.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`SpeedEvil:taking into account we need a flashcontroller aware kswapd anyway, I'd say this goes hand in hand nicely together`
`10:49.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`Indeed.`
`10:49.26`	`*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`10:50.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so who's taking it to LKML?`
`10:50.57`	`MohammadAG`	`cat /dev/kmem ftw`
`10:51.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hehehehe`
`10:51.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you thieeeeef`
`10:53.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I need to prepare a patch that will set first 1024 bytes in kmem all to "reboot (C) jr\nreboot (C)jr\n..." :-P`
`10:53.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`Oooh. http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab`
`10:53.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`wonders.`
`10:54.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`ponders abusing the Distance Selling Regulations to see if it could be made to work.`
`10:54.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`Also.`
`10:54.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`WTF can't I buy the nice right-angled plug anywhere.`
`10:54.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`Grrrr.`
`10:54.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-/`
`10:57.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG: my much cooler "echo heartbeat >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:b/trigger" is allegedly fixed :-/`
`10:57.55`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`hey guys, i prob. don't say this enough and i idle in here a lot, so:`
`10:58.19`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`thanks to all of you who work on maemo & the free (as in speech and beer) software for n900.`
`10:58.22`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`it is awesome.`
`10:59.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`HRH_H_Crab: you're welcome, though we'd love to see you contribute`
`10:59.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-)`
`10:59.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, you just started`
`10:59.52`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`i dont program - im just a geeky end user, but i'll surely contribute to wiki / docs as appropriate if i get a chance!`
`11:00.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`as valuable a contribution as any other`
`11:00.44`	`*** join/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@smtp.elizovotv.ru)`
`11:00.57`	`alterego`	`:)`
`11:01.25`	`alterego`	`HRH_H_Crab: sometimes it's nice to just know people appreciate our efforts ;)`
`11:01.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`Cash works too.`
`11:01.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`;)`
`11:01.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`even just testing programs and giving feedback, esp about missing/defect things is valuable`
`11:02.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`But yes - testing or documentation, or help with bgfixes is valuable too.`
`11:02.05`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`alterego: i totally do.`
`11:03.28`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`i'll help as much as i can.`
`11:03.57`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`ive settled into a fairly comfortable useage pattern now though, so im not really trying new stuff much.`
`11:04.29`	`*** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net)`
`11:04.29`	`*** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre)`
`11:05.38`	`*** join/#maemo flat (~flat@aluekeskus.kaisakoi.com)`
`11:09.10`	`*** join/#maemo Tscheesy_ (~quassel@alfred.neversfelde.de)`
`11:09.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`start with documenting this usage pattern, so devels see what's the most used apps that are worth getting some love`
`11:10.43`	`*** join/#maemo __trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)`
`11:11.20`	`*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:11.34`	`*** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.113.112.68)`
`11:13.36`	`*** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.157.157)`
`11:14.09`	`*** join/#maemo abbera_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-gftllpwkldlidnjf)`
`11:15.22`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`DocScrutinizer: and just post it on the forums?`
`11:17.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, you can do that. Or edit http://wiki.maemo.org/User:HRH_H_Crab(or whatever is your correct nick there)`
`11:20.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG: (heartbeat) iirc it only "works" when issues during screen off and ind-LED active`
`11:20.43`	`*** join/#maemo GNUtoo\|laptop (~gnutoo@host68-143-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`11:22.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`LOL, and it's fixed and really works (not as a reboot trigger) on PK`
`11:22.52`	`*** join/#maemo ketas-av (~ketas@kvlt.eu)`
`11:24.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cat /sys/class/leds/lp5523:b/trigger ; #if you're curious`
`11:25.12`	`Venemo`	`[07:29] <krayon> Venemo: Any plans to make the pieces "puzzle" shaped? Not too difficult I would think and would make it even cooler. -> Yes, there are plans. I just haven't got to it yet.`
`11:26.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Venemo: this MUST come with puzzle tiles rotatable then :-P`
`11:26.22`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: tiles rotatable? wut?`
`11:26.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`oh sheeesch that's going to get difficult`
`11:26.44`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: that would require some multitouch-wouldn't it`
`11:27.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`difficult was the multi-meaning keyword of my last line ;-)`
`11:28.08`	`*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com)`
`11:28.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Venemo: you could use gestures, like microB does, for zooming`
`11:28.36`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: I could imagine rotating the tiles with the multitouch pinch-to-rotate gesture (like on every crapdroid fone)`
`11:28.47`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: but for single-touch, no idea`
`11:28.50`	`*** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.113.112.68)`
`11:28.54`	`*** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm)`
`11:28.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or simply double-click`
`11:29.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`to rotate 90Â° clockwise`
`11:29.11`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: mhm`
`11:29.17`	`villager`	`perhaps the user could rotate the pieces by clicking away from their center-of-mass...`
`11:29.27`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ouch`
`11:29.32`	`villager`	`and dragging`
`11:29.48`	`*** join/#maemo ketas (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee)`
`11:30.15`	`Venemo`	`so far, double click is the most user-friendy`
`11:30.51`	`lardman`	`re`
`11:31.12`	`Venemo`	`btw DocScrutinizer, in case you missed it: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=949457&postcount=38`
`11:32.45`	`rafal_g`	`how can I get extras-devel working in scratchbox?`
`11:32.50`	`*** join/#maemo Zeddy (Zeddy@cable-prv-fe63dd00-10.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`11:32.53`	`pupnik`	`nice demo of N8 running 13 apps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Z2fSBmptc [ Nokia N8 Multitasking Torture Test ]`
`11:33.03`	`Venemo`	`rafal_g: add the repo to /etc/apt/sources.list`
`11:33.06`	`Zeddy`	`Hey, how exactly do you export your calendar from the latest maemo firmware?`
`11:33.14`	`*** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl)`
`11:33.29`	`Zeddy`	`i mean google exchange fails miserably, it takes 5 minutes and then it tells me that connection to exchange server fails`
`11:33.43`	`Zeddy`	`i tried using wlan and 3G, same thing for both`
`11:34.05`	`rafal_g`	`Venemo: I've added deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free but it complains about Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'`
`11:34.43`	`Venemo`	`rafal_g: mhm`
`11:35.07`	`*** join/#maemo abbera_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-fgirxwnodaurclti)`
`11:35.16`	`*** join/#maemo fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net)`
`11:35.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`pffff 13 apps. I find myself running 13 terminals by accident, in addition to quite some other crap`
`11:36.01`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: :)`
`11:36.13`	`BCMM`	`hands DocScrutinizer his free copy of GNU Screen`
`11:36.50`	`khertan`	`use often more than 20 terminal`
`11:36.51`	`khertan`	`:)`
`11:36.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`BCMM: meh screen, taskswitcher muuuuuuch nicer`
`11:37.03`	`khertan`	`i agree`
`11:37.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`plus with MHD I got much easier shortcuts to switch between screens/terminals`
`11:38.32`	`Zeddy`	`whats gonna become of the maemo community now?`
`11:38.46`	`*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)`
`11:39.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`a crown of creaming monkeys - it's Frifay afternon now ;-P`
`11:39.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`crowd*`
`11:39.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`damn`
`11:40.09`	`Venemo`	`Zeddy: most people will go to the MeeGo community (probably only after there is some really usable MeeGo), the rest is gonna go to android or whatever, and some people will remain at hacking good old Maemo`
`11:40.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`a crowd of creaming monkeys - it's Friday afternon now ;-P`
`11:40.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`a crowd of screaming monkeys - it's Friday afternon now ;-P`
`11:40.32`	`villager`	`Zeddy: well if all else fails, you can try SyncEvolution... even if you don't want to sync with a server, it has command-line options for dumping the PIM databases to files (mainly for debugging, but can be useful)...`
`11:40.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`see what I mean :-P`
`11:41.09`	`*** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@port549.ds1-hvi.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`11:41.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`takes a note in callendar about the day he broke the record of typos in one post`
`11:41.39`	`Zeddy`	`:p`
`11:42.00`	`Zeddy`	`my school just gave me a htc desire hd and told me to start developing apps for it instead`
`11:42.19`	`Zeddy`	`kinda sad that i took all that time to learn Qt and then they just drop it`
`11:42.22`	`*** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@a88-112-162-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`11:42.35`	`Robot101`	`you can get qt on android :P`
`11:42.50`	`trx`	`u can use qt even on win`
`11:43.01`	`crashanddie`	`You can even say "you" instead of "u"`
`11:43.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`maemo community existed pror to N900, it will stay around when N900 is dead and forgotten`
`11:43.07`	`BCMM`	`DocScrutinizer: "plus with MHD I got much easier shortcuts to switch between screens/terminals" - talking about ctrl-backspace-as-alt-tab, or something xterm-specific?`
`11:43.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`prior* damn what's with my fingers?!`
`11:43.20`	`*** join/#maemo abbera__ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-jkwwjrnxksmwtkjz)`
`11:43.34`	`niala_`	`question: what is the maximum resolution that can be played on the n900`
`11:43.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ctl-bs`
`11:43.43`	`Zeddy`	`qt and android is still so alphabeta it can get`
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`11:43.50`	`niala_`	`i mean n900 on a tv`
`11:44.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`PAL`
`11:44.25`	`trx`	`crashanddie is is so terrible to say "u" instead of "you"?`
`11:44.40`	`*** part/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`11:44.45`	`villager`	`trx: yes`
`11:44.50`	`Robot101`	`yes - IRC doesn't have a 160 character limit :)`
`11:45.09`	`Robot101`	`we have as many characters as we want, to express ourselves clearly, with no additional charge!`
`11:45.18`	`trx`	`they why are you using stuff like AFAIK, IIRC, etc?`
`11:45.24`	`trx`	`then*`
`11:45.58`	`villager`	`Robot101: as a faq I once read said - so each additional character you write saves you money!`
`11:46.21`	`*** join/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de)`
`11:46.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`trx: it's about convention, about crashanddie's mood, and of course about readability and compression factor ;-D`
`11:47.08`	`trx`	`:)`
`11:47.09`	`*** join/#maemo pyther (~pyther@unaffiliated/pyther)`
`11:47.46`	`trx`	`ok, i will have that in mind next time i want to say something..`
`11:47.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`u instead of you has a really poor factor of 3:1 and a poor uniqueness`
`11:48.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I'd let users get away with it if they are really in a hurry all the time, like raster. crashanddie kicks :-P`
`11:49.21`	`ruskie`	`Robot101, IRC does have a char limit`
`11:49.28`	`ruskie`	`it depends on the irc server`
`11:49.40`	`*** part/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de)`
`11:49.52`	`ruskie`	`but generally ~512 chars is the average norm... some do 1024... then they cut off the rest`
`11:50.06`	`ruskie`	`that's why things like splitlong.pl in irssi exist...`
`11:51.06`	`crashanddie`	`I don't kick`
`11:51.10`	`crashanddie`	`I haven't kicked in ages`
`11:51.14`	`villager`	`besides, things like "AFAIK" are acronyms, while "u" is not an acronym, just ugly...`
`11:51.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`TOPICLEN=390`
`11:51.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`crashanddie: you kicked raster`
`11:51.33`	`crashanddie`	`when?`
`11:51.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`for using 'u'`
`11:51.41`	`crashanddie`	`I did?`
`11:51.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`last time he's been here :-P`
`11:51.52`	`crashanddie`	`or because he was a dick afterwards?`
`11:52.29`	`Venemo`	`lol`
`11:52.37`	`ruskie`	`yawn`
`11:52.43`	`*** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@187.113.112.68)`
`11:53.06`	`*** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@201.82.25.112)`
`11:53.06`	`*** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback)`
`11:54.39`	`*** join/#maemo deno (~menos@eduroam-wireless-pat3.wireless.bris.ac.uk)`
`11:57.25`	`deno`	`hi there`
`11:57.37`	`deno`	`can you tell me why did you set fifo_mode = 5 instead of fifo_mode = 4?`
`11:57.59`	`deno`	`for the h-e-n team :)`
`11:58.00`	`*** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@187.113.112.68)`
`11:58.28`	`MohammadAG`	`all patches are commented on in the git repsotiroy`
`11:58.35`	`*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)`
`11:59.10`	`*** join/#maemo _llll_ (llll@unaffiliated/llll/x-000002)`
`12:03.20`	`deno`	`MohammadAG, thx`
`12:06.09`	`*** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD285A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`12:07.50`	`niala_`	`question: synergy run on maemo ?`
`12:09.08`	`Venemo`	`how ridiculous is this? M$ disallows FOSS apps in their marketplace.`
`12:10.25`	`*** join/#maemo svillar (~sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com)`
`12:11.35`	`lolcat`	`Meh, android sucked hard`
`12:11.47`	`Venemo`	`lolcat: why the past tense? it sucks hard.`
`12:11.59`	`lolcat`	`In the sence I won't be using it anymore`
`12:12.09`	`lolcat`	`Didn't show me spotify`
`12:12.15`	`ruskie`	`niala_, you mean synergy2 ? should work... both are X`
`12:12.21`	`lolcat`	`Trying to do the recommended steps to get spotify, it crashed`
`12:13.07`	`niala_`	`ruskie, i mean to share keyboard from my desktop to n900`
`12:13.18`	`ruskie`	`niala_, yeah... should work... both are X`
`12:13.25`	`*** join/#maemo apol (~apol@62.57.54.145.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`12:13.36`	`lolcat`	`Maybe I should try meego some day`
`12:13.39`	`*** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-174-111-058-051.triad.res.rr.com)`
`12:13.51`	`niala_`	`niala_, niala_ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=synergy+maemo`
`12:14.35`	`ruskie`	`lolcat, maybe you'll have a better reaction it's UX than I did...`
`12:14.53`	`*** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com)`
`12:15.12`	`lolcat`	`UX?`
`12:15.26`	`niala_`	`lolcat, you can try on sd card with no changing maemo.`
`12:15.29`	`niala_`	`i believe`
`12:15.41`	`lolcat`	`I think so`
`12:15.42`	`*** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89)`
`12:15.47`	`lolcat`	`Can't be bothered now`
`12:15.50`	`ruskie`	`user experience... aka UI and it's use and feel ;)`
`12:16.03`	`lolcat`	`Starting to show symptoms of sleep deprevation now`
`12:16.37`	`lolcat`	`I am getting a new phone company soon`
`12:16.43`	`lolcat`	`2/3`
`12:17.11`	`BCMM`	`on no account sign any contracts when sleep-deprived.`
`12:18.25`	`lolcat`	`Trust me, this is a good idea`
`12:18.52`	`lolcat`	`has started sleeping every other day`
`12:19.00`	`lolcat`	`48 houres awake, 16 houres sleep`
`12:19.41`	`BCMM`	`there was some record-holdingly-old person who for some reason slept for two days then stayed awake for two days`
`12:19.46`	`*** join/#maemo kontio (~kontio@unaffiliated/kontio)`
`12:20.01`	`BCMM`	`(not as a way of becoming very old)`
`12:20.11`	`ruskie`	`lolcat, that works great... if you don't actually have work and such like...`
`12:20.19`	`BCMM`	`does that actually work, long term`
`12:20.21`	`BCMM`	`?`
`12:20.24`	`BCMM`	`it sounds like a terrible idea`
`12:20.35`	`ruskie`	`according to various research not really`
`12:20.40`	`ruskie`	`i.e. does it work`
`12:20.48`	`BCMM`	`if it does work, it also sounds like it would be pretty hard to get in to, and once in to it, even harder to get out of`
`12:20.55`	`BCMM`	`(if you had to be in real life for a bit)`
`12:21.16`	`lolcat`	`I don't have any real-life duties`
`12:21.32`	`ruskie`	`I used to have similar things when I was younger...`
`12:21.36`	`*** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-ywwdtdfinlpgxaja)`
`12:21.37`	`lolcat`	`Or, I am expected to show up at the university 6 houres a week`
`12:21.42`	`BCMM`	`also, it doesn't even stay in phase with real days`
`12:21.43`	`lolcat`	`on three diffrent days`
`12:21.44`	`ruskie`	`then I discovered that 8h/day sleep is just right for my needs...`
`12:22.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`wants a 28h or so day`
`12:22.37`	`ruskie`	`wants to work for 6h/day sleep for 8h/day and the rest have it to himself...`
`12:24.24`	`ruskie`	`http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/rim_india/ <-- seriously... give it a rest...`
`12:25.30`	`*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`12:25.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`'Having threatened to ban the service, and repeatedly petitioned RIM to do the impossible,' - missing the point`
`12:25.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`It is not impossible for RIM to change their buisness model to facilitate government.`
`12:26.19`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`12:26.21`	`ruskie`	`http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/stop_offering_me_stuff_i_must_pay_for_metropcs/ <-- hmm`
`12:26.30`	`ruskie`	`especially the last bit of that article is interesting`
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`12:32.25`	`*** join/#maemo apol_ (~apol@62.57.54.145.dyn.user.ono.com)`
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`12:35.33`	`flux`	`well, their argument makes sense if without the extra $10-$20 they (try to) block all music transfers from the web`
`12:36.04`	`flux`	`but not, if for $10-$20 they are providing their own music streaming (or whatever) service`
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`12:37.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`to all those constantly searching for something to hack up: fix powertop so it works correctly with powerkernel`
`12:37.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`powertop has no source`
`12:38.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that should get fixed as well, it's GPL isn't it?`
`12:38.34`	`ruskie`	`http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/download/powertop-1.13.tar.gz <-- erm... is it any different than this?`
`12:38.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes`
`12:38.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's utterly unrelated.`
`12:38.58`	`ruskie`	`other than by name?`
`12:39.06`	`*** join/#maemo lopz (~jjlc@200.87.220.156)`
`12:39.06`	`*** join/#maemo lopz (~jjlc@unaffiliated/lopz)`
`12:39.07`	`ruskie`	`I thought it was the same thing...`
`12:39.10`	`ruskie`	`just ported over...`
`12:39.25`	`*** join/#maemo felipec_ (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-fggkepbqlpqrmogb)`
`12:39.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`They're totally unrelated - there was a request to open powertop, but it was a won'tfix IIRC`
`12:39.55`	`*** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@nor75-19-82-244-51-6.fbx.proxad.net)`
`12:40.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I'd say they are just enough related to force Nokia to obey GPL and open up the source`
`12:40.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's a flat reimplementation.`
`12:40.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd say there are no grounds at all.`
`12:40.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I doubt that`
`12:40.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`Why? Look at powertop, look at the other powertop.`
`12:40.59`	`*** join/#maemo apol_ (~apol@62.57.54.145.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`12:41.07`	`ruskie`	`why not just adjust the proper powertop to work on it?`
`12:41.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`There is little reason to believe they have shared code`
`12:43.16`	`*** join/#maemo d1b (~db@d1b.org)`
`12:43.36`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly\|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly)`
`12:44.16`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly\|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly)`
`12:44.21`	`ShadowJK`	`Yeah I doubt there's any shared code`
`12:44.53`	`*** join/#maemo felipec_ (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-pumzygiqqvcjdzlb)`
`12:47.35`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: I also implemented your feature request btw :)`
`12:48.07`	`*** join/#maemo auenf (David@171.72.233.220.static.exetel.com.au)`
`12:54.10`	`ruskie`	`hmm where exactly is powertop hidden? in what repo?`
`12:54.37`	`ruskie`	`I can't find it in my scratchbox install even though I have nokia binaries, tools sdk and all the extras enabled...`
`12:56.39`	`*** join/#maemo newbie (~Tsuyo@dslb-084-061-226-118.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:56.39`	`*** join/#maemo Tsuyo (~Tsuyo@dslb-084-061-226-118.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:56.55`	`*** join/#maemo visz (vis@irkki.fi)`
`12:56.57`	`visz`	`ehlo`
`12:57.05`	`visz`	`<3 nokia`
`12:57.15`	`visz`	`To assist you with your development activities in the near-term, we will ship one free Nokia E7 device to all program members. Additionally, we will send to you one free Nokia WP7 device, as soon as it becomes available.`
`12:58.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`On the basis of what ?`
`12:58.19`	`ruskie`	`rofl`
`12:58.24`	`*** join/#maemo Tsuyo (~Tsuyo@dslb-084-061-226-118.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:58.44`	`visz`	`launchpad member`
`12:58.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`A free nokia WP7 device might be fun to see if you can root it.`
`12:59.41`	`chx`	`and then?`
`12:59.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`Profit!`
`12:59.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`meh`
`13:00.02`	`chx`	`you do not have anything to put on it`
`13:00.12`	`chx`	`maemo is abandoned if i understand correctly`
`13:00.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`imagines CSSU for noksofts.`
`13:00.17`	`chx`	`and who knows what happens to meego`
`13:00.22`	`jarkkom_`	`WP7 got rooted about week after being on sale`
`13:00.34`	`BCMM`	`chx: and then? install maemo!`
`13:00.43`	`*** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@192.100.124.156)`
`13:00.45`	`BCMM`	`(yes i know, drivers)`
`13:00.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`By rooted, I man sufficient to run a linux kernel supporting all of the features of the device.`
`13:00.53`	`chx`	`why not install maemo on the G2 then`
`13:01.04`	`chx`	`the hardware drives me to "want"`
`13:02.16`	`jarkkom_`	`SpeedEvil, not sure about maemo/meego but android probably would be fairly straightforward since AFAIK wp7 phones are based on qualcomm chipsets and there's tons of similar android phones out already`
`13:03.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`I just think it'd be amusing to post about a free windows dev device that I'd got meego running on it. :)`
`13:03.38`	`*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@pool-108-14-87-241.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)`
`13:04.14`	`flux`	`maybe you could hack it to use the windows drivers ;)`
`13:08.24`	`*** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro)`
`13:09.36`	`BCMM`	`how hard is it to make android drivers work with a proper kernel?`
`13:11.35`	`ruskie`	`I thought they were just kernel modules?`
`13:11.39`	`ruskie`	`and still loaded as kernel modules`
`13:12.30`	`*** join/#maemo skython (~Sky@p5B2234A7.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:13.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`BCMM: ruskie: ask mickeyl, I heard him swear about annoyance in doing exactly that`
`13:15.55`	`*** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.171.22.147)`
`13:16.26`	`*** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.171.22.147)`
`13:22.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, you're right. Powertop of maemo and x86-intel powertop seem to be completely disjunkt`
`13:23.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, I could go into RE mode, and compare the regenerated sourcecode, but that's not on my todo list of today`
`13:32.49`	`*** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@nor75-19-82-244-51-6.fbx.proxad.net)`
`13:34.23`	`*** join/#maemo jacekowski (jacekowski@jacekowski.org)`
`13:34.43`	`visz`	`http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/18/nokia-giving-developers-free-e7-and-nokia-wp7-device-when-availa/`
`13:34.53`	`ruskie`	`DocScrutinizer, comparing strings shows 2 completly different things...`
`13:35.08`	`ruskie`	`the nokia one also has a reference to: pmtrackerdaemon`
`13:36.31`	`*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@187.113.112.68)`
`13:36.44`	`*** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk)`
`13:37.09`	`ruskie`	`but the diff is very obvious... nokia one only references like 6 or 7 /sys nodes while powertop has 40+`
`13:37.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ruskie: I know, as that's exactly what I did :-)`
`13:37.34`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`13:37.36`	`*** join/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@outnat.abanka.hr)`
`13:38.13`	`ruskie`	`needs to try making his own theme sometime... a bit more modified than his current just change the colour of digital nature theme...`
`13:38.23`	`*** part/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@outnat.abanka.hr)`
`13:38.44`	`Jaffa`	`visz: Yeah, I got that email.`
`13:38.49`	`ShadowJK`	`intel powertop gropes a large number of /sys nodes to offer tune-up advice`
`13:38.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root IroN900 'strings `which powertop`' \| sort >xxx1
`13:39.09`	`ruskie`	`nice hostname ;)`
`13:39.18`	`ruskie`	`mine is baldr`
`13:39.25`	`ShadowJK`	`nokia powertop is more basic, but has more detailed statistics on Arm than intel powertop on intel cpus`
`13:40.01`	`*** join/#maemo norayr (d4494a1c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.73.74.28)`
`13:40.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`...and gives me >> 1150 MHz \| nan% \| << for % in CPU freq, on PK :-S`
`13:41.21`	`*** join/#maemo dneary_ (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary)`
`13:41.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`even though it's NOT OC'd! (as you might have guessed)`
`13:43.55`	`*** join/#maemo maheshk (~makulkar@63.116.149.163)`
`13:44.30`	`OkropNick`	`It would be nice for me to use shutter button for song changing (next button). Any ideal how to do that?`
`13:44.40`	`OkropNick`	`I mean on N900`
`13:44.41`	`ruskie`	`shortcud?`
`13:44.48`	`ruskie`	`erm shortcutd`
`13:44.58`	`ruskie`	`or some other tool... iirc there is something to do such crazy things...`
`13:45.04`	`OkropNick`	`ruskie: thx, I'll check it :)`
`13:45.12`	`*** join/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@outnat.abanka.hr)`
`13:47.55`	`*** join/#maemo retro\|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz)`
`13:48.20`	`ruskie`	`http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/vodafone_intel/`
`13:53.10`	`*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)`
`13:55.12`	`rafal_g`	`I've installed QtMobility 1.1 on scratchbox but it's installed in /opt/qtm11`
`13:55.26`	`rafal_g`	`How do I use those libraries then?`
`13:56.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cd /sys/class/leds/lp5523:r; echo timer >trigger ; echo 1000 >delay_on; echo 500 >delay_off`
`13:56.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-)`
`13:56.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`alas mce is ruining everything in a matter of seconds`
`13:57.54`	`Venemo`	`[14:40] <DocScrutinizer> ...and gives me >> 1150 MHz ----> yes, we know you OC'd your n900!`
`13:58.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:NAN%:`
`13:59.04`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: you're just trying to keep it a secret.`
`13:59.18`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: :P`
`13:59.26`	`*** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@187.113.112.68)`
`13:59.34`	`kerio`	`OMFG YOU HAVE AN IMAGINARY CPU`
`13:59.39`	`*** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@192.100.124.156)`
`13:59.50`	`Venemo`	`kerio: he has an N910`
`13:59.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah, so PSHHHH!`
`13:59.59`	`Venemo`	`xD`
`14:00.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I'd rather keep secret I never ever tested OC`
`14:00.57`	`kerio`	`N900i`
`14:01.16`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: me neither`
`14:01.24`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: my N900 is, and has always been snappy`
`14:01.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`just fine as is`
`14:02.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no fsckng need to OC or swap nbattery for a 6V type`
`14:02.14`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: when I read from people who say it's slow or sluggish, it surprises me`
`14:02.24`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: as I haven't discovered what to do with N900 to make it sluggish`
`14:02.32`	`Venemo`	`DocScrutinizer: except running HAM, of course :P`
`14:02.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah, that, or running flash in microB`
`14:02.52`	`Corsac`	`just let it run for a few days`
`14:02.57`	`*** join/#maemo Tsuyo (~Tsuyo@dslb-084-061-226-118.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`14:03.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`t900:/sys/class/leds/lp5523:r# uptime`
`14:03.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:03.53`	`*** join/#maemo etrunko (~etrunko@201.82.25.112)`
`14:04.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`IroN900:~# uptime`
`14:04.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:04.22`	`E0x`	`tage ?`
`14:04.30`	`OkropNick`	`ruskie: thank You, this is EXACTLY what I needed!`
`14:04.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bash?`
`14:05.29`	`sig^`	`E0x: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lang=en&search=tage`
`14:06.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`the 0 users part is funny though`
`14:06.16`	`*** join/#maemo vi_ (~user@178.97.240.155)`
`14:06.52`	`alterego`	`DocScrutinizer: did you ever figure what /dev/twl4030-adc was?`
`14:07.07`	`Venemo`	`E0x: 'tage' = 'days' [German]`
`14:07.08`	`alterego`	`I'm guessing it's an interface to A/D converter channels.`
`14:07.13`	`E0x`	`ok ,thx`
`14:07.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`alterego: It's the ADC on the GAIA - it's connected to various stuff`
`14:07.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`alterego: should, yes`
`14:07.32`	`alterego`	`SpeedEvil: cool, what kind of stuff is it connected to?`
`14:07.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`alterego: For example, I think another battery voltage sensor`
`14:07.41`	`alterego`	`Ah, neat.`
`14:07.47`	`alterego`	`I guess I should look at the schematic?`
`14:07.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`Probably, yes.`
`14:07.56`	`alterego`	`m'kay`
`14:07.59`	`vi_`	`is the battery voltage sensor on the i2c bus?`
`14:08.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`no`
`14:08.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`Not that one.`
`14:08.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's a resistive divider, connected to the ADC`
`14:08.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`err - I may mean the battery capacitive sensor`
`14:08.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`There is a seperate bq* chip that does battery voltage on the I2C bus - search wiki for charge monitor`
`14:09.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`BSI, bat_temp, some other cruft`
`14:10.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`IroN900:~# lsof\|grep adc`
`14:10.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bme_RX-51 735 root 3r CHR 10,63 1639 /dev/twl4030-adc`
`14:10.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`GRRRR`
`14:10.47`	`vi_`	`can we write values to the bq chip? i.e. change some values to have it charge the battery to 4.3 volts instaed of 4.2?`
`14:10.57`	`alterego`	`DocScrutinizer: :D`
`14:11.58`	`DocScrutinizer`	`vi_: yes, that's exactly the stuff you could do and Nokia is SCARED of you doing it. Me too`
`14:12.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`WHY THE FUCK would you want to do that?`
`14:12.44`	`lardman`	`portable pocket fireball machine?`
`14:13.05`	`lardman`	`visualises the burning lithium`
`14:13.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`nah, it just will destroy your batery cell, but without any noticable effect beyond it failing`
`14:13.23`	`vi_`	`to eek a few extra mAh outta the battery at the expense of battery lifespan`
`14:13.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`vi_: you're a moron`
`14:13.45`	`vi_`	`not true`
`14:13.59`	`*** join/#maemo mpoirier (~quassel@S0106002369de4dac.cg.shawcable.net)`
`14:14.17`	`vi_`	`4.2v is the optimal balance between battery lifespan and charge capacity`
`14:14.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no, 4.2 is the max rated cell voltage`
`14:15.06`	`vi_`	`it can be charged ever so slightly over 4.2v`
`14:15.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`vi_: you're a moron`
`14:15.53`	`vi_`	`actually i am an electronic engineer you unqualified charlitan`
`14:16.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`then you should know it gains you maybe 30mAh to charge the cell to 4.3`
`14:17.19`	`Shadikka`	`it would actually be a rather comical self-destruct function with SMSCON or something.`
`14:17.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`while wear will go up by a factor 10..50`
`14:17.32`	`kerio`	`>charlitan`
`14:17.34`	`kerio`	`wtf`
`14:17.46`	`Shadikka`	`And yes, I know you couldn't probably actually light the battery on fire that way.`
`14:17.57`	`kerio`	`misspelling your insults is probably the worst thing you can do`
`14:18.06`	`kerio`	`because it makes you look line a uneducated moron`
`14:18.09`	`kerio`	`*like`
`14:18.18`	`kerio`	`(gah, i knew it - fucking muphry's law)`
`14:18.19`	`nid0`	`moran, surely!`
`14:19.29`	`kerio`	`my point still stands`
`14:19.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so next time you get LESS capacity even when charging it to 4.3, due to damage done to cell chemistry`
`14:20.00`	`*** join/#maemo willer_ (~willer_@189.2.128.130)`
`14:20.17`	`*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:20.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`This also applies at 4.2`
`14:20.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`A li-ion only ever charged to 4.1 will maintain capacity a _lot_ longer`
`14:20.38`	`_trine`	`can someone tell me the keys to press to reduce the size of the font when in a terminal on the N900`
`14:20.42`	`kerio`	`-`
`14:20.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`_trine: volume keys`
`14:20.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I meant less than for a proper 4.2 charge cycle, without the damage done by 4.3`
`14:20.57`	`_trine`	`thanks`
`14:21.10`	`NIN101`	`If I write data to a device on my N900 through USB mass storage mode, is data cached somewhere (insecurely) before it finally arrives the device?`
`14:21.18`	`_trine`	`SpeedEvil, I did know that once then i forgot it`
`14:21.18`	`NIN101`	`device = /dev/something`
`14:21.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`NIN101: What do you mean 'insecurely' ?`
`14:21.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`NIN101: sync`
`14:21.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`In general, it's written out every at most 30s or so probably`
`14:22.00`	`*** join/#maemo vi_ (~user@178.96.203.41)`
`14:22.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`Unless the system is busy`
`14:23.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`SpeedEvil: 4.2: 1256mAh, 1255mAh, 1255mAh, 1254mAh;; 4.3: 1280mAh, 1221mAh, 1150mAh...`
`14:23.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yes, I know`
`14:23.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`Laptop batteries, for example - can be nearly 'as new' if you only charge them to ~85% or so`
`14:23.48`	`NIN101`	`So for example a truecrypt mapped device, exposed to mass storage mode with /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh . Wouldn't be cool if data which should be stored encrypted is cached and later somehow accessable.`
`14:24.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`Whereas they may hit 85% capacity in 100 'normal' discharge cycles`
`14:24.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`NIN101: you need to encrypt swap too`
`14:24.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so I feel sorry with whoever employer has to live with vi_ as EE`
`14:25.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's not quite an invalid question - there are occasions when you know that you value the one-time life more than the cyclic.`
`14:25.28`	`NIN101`	`yeah, I thought the same SpeedEvil.`
`14:26.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`one time life of 4.3 is just about one week standby, then damage done and battery selfdischarged to less than what you'd have with 4.2`
`14:27.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`yup`
`14:27.03`	`nid0`	`cool if you can afford a new battery every week`
`14:27.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`also the additional capacity is really marginal and negligible`
`14:27.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`I wasn't meaning so much in the phone use - but I'm also involved in a group that sends up balloons, with trackers on.`
`14:27.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's a valid usecase, ok :-D`
`14:28.55`	`vi_`	`oh no, someone is attacking your dogma doc, best ad hominem fast.`
`14:28.56`	`vi_`	`wanker`
`14:29.18`	`*** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ`
`14:29.26`	`*** kick/#maemo [vi_!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)`
`14:29.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sorry, even insults to chanops aren't tolerated here`
`14:29.48`	`*** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ`
`14:30.05`	`*** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@94-224-243-210.access.telenet.be)`
`14:30.06`	`*** join/#maemo vi_ (~user@178.96.203.41)`
`14:30.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`(i'm well aware moron isn't a nice name either, but it's to the point, while wanker... well :-P)`
`14:31.16`	`vi_`	`your actions speak louder than words doc`
`14:31.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`your words are louder than your rationale`
`14:32.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and you've been warned now`
`14:32.46`	`kerio`	`DocScrutinizer: hmm... you... stupid!`
`14:33.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, stupid is an atribute I'm pleased to duscuss`
`14:33.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`discuss*`
`14:33.48`	`kerio`	`you're ugly!`
`14:33.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`agreed`
`14:34.08`	`kerio`	`you fight like a dairy farmer!`
`14:34.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though my mother would beat you :-P`
`14:34.21`	`LjL`	`you're an op on irc!`
`14:34.25`	`LjL`	`sorry, sorry, that was too much`
`14:34.31`	`kerio`	`LjL: dude, that was cold`
`14:34.45`	`*** join/#maemo jonnylamb_ (~jonnylamb@109.73.51.163)`
`14:34.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yeah, I hate that`
`14:35.40`	`vi_`	`so i ask a question that you dont really know the answer to, you call me a moron then kick me when i have the audacity to retaliate`
`14:36.18`	`*** join/#maemo apoi (~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at)`
`14:36.35`	`nid0`	`you did actually get an answer`
`14:36.41`	`nid0`	`for what its worth`
`14:36.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sorry, I missed the question. Can you repeat it please?`
`14:36.58`	`FauxFaux`	`hands vi_ and DocScrutinizer "Congratulations, you're twelve." awards.`
`14:37.36`	`sig^`	`calling people moron isn't nice I:`
`14:37.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`agreed`
`14:37.53`	`kerio`	`DocScrutinizer: I've spoken with apes more polite than you!`
`14:37.59`	`*** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ`
`14:38.06`	`sig^`	`politemen`
`14:38.08`	`*** kick/#maemo [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)`
`14:38.26`	`kerio`	`HE WAS KICKED FOR OUR SINS!`
`14:38.50`	`NIN101`	`lol`
`14:39.01`	`*** join/#maemo basiaf (~quassel@2a01:238:433a:c200:dead:beef:0:6667)`
`14:39.07`	flat`	`:D`
`14:39.11`	flat`	`aww`
`14:39.21`	`RST38h`	`Ho ho ho`
`14:39.53`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker2 (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`14:40.14`	`*** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@genld-217-021.t-mobile.co.uk)`
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`14:49.54`	`*** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-231-124-110-no126.tbcn.telia.com)`
`14:51.38`	`*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)`
`14:51.44`	`kerio`	`he's back!`
`14:51.58`	`kerio`	`faster than jesus too`
`14:52.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I have to apologize to whole channel, and especially to vi_`
`14:52.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`obviously in a inappropriate state of mind today`
`14:52.55`	`*** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ`
`14:53.00`	`*** kick/#maemo [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)`
`14:54.56`	`kerio`	`wait, what`
`14:55.19`	`E0x`	`lol`
`14:56.45`	`kerio`	`and now he won't come back anymore`
`14:56.48`	`kerio`	`like jesus ._.`
`14:59.44`	`*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)`
`15:01.44`	`doc\|home`	`kerio: depends on whose opinion on that it is that you're listening to`
`15:02.55`	`*** join/#maemo apoi (~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at)`
`15:05.14`	`kerio`	`well since he never actually existed i doubt he can come back`
`15:05.31`	`*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (~fnoridans@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net)`
`15:05.50`	`kerio`	`jesus, not docscrutinizer`
`15:05.59`	`*** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130)`
`15:11.46`	`*** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-5-126-18.pool.telenor.hu)`
`15:11.56`	`crashanddie`	`anyone calling someone else a wanker in this channel deserves to be banned, regardless.`
`15:12.44`	`Venemo_N900`	`hey`
`15:12.53`	`*** part/#maemo zeenix (zeenix@static.fi)`
`15:13.01`	`Venemo_N900`	`is there some command to shut down the keyboard leds?`
`15:13.11`	`visz`	`i wonder if you could use a usb ethernet adaptor with n900 otg`
`15:14.40`	`kerio`	`i don't get it, what's with the negative connotations related to masturbation?`
`15:15.27`	`Venemo_N900`	`kerio: ?`
`15:15.37`	`*** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`15:15.41`	`*** join/#maemo _NIN (~NIN101@p5DD28143.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`15:15.47`	`trx`	`visz i use one all the time`
`15:15.57`	`nid0`	`Venemo_N900: as in, why is a wanker a bad thing`
`15:15.59`	`nid0`	`I assume`
`15:16.01`	`visz`	`wow`
`15:16.20`	`Venemo_N900`	`mhm`
`15:16.38`	`Venemo_N900`	`ok, solved`
`15:16.57`	`Venemo_N900`	`trick the ALS to turn off the keyboard lights, then do modprobe -r leds-lp5523`
`15:21.30`	*** join/#maemo mc_teo` (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735)
`15:23.07`	`*** join/#maemo esaym153 (~esaym153@cpe-72-181-109-14.satx.res.rr.com)`
`15:23.50`	`*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)`
`15:26.30`	`*** join/#maemo retro2 (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz)`
`15:27.28`	`*** join/#maemo Necc (~user@netacc-gpn-5-88-167.pool.telenor.hu)`
`15:27.30`	`*** part/#maemo Zhonghua1 (~john@nat/nokia/x-rhlvrivqizigsqdz)`
`15:27.58`	`alterego`	`What's twl4030_wdt?`
`15:27.59`	`alterego`	`:)`
`15:28.06`	`alterego`	`googles`
`15:29.11`	`*** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@port549.ds1-hvi.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`15:29.21`	`MohammadAG`	`alterego, vibrator`
`15:29.32`	`alterego`	`watchdog :P`
`15:30.06`	`MohammadAG`	`twl4030:vibrator`
`15:30.08`	`MohammadAG`	`my bad :P`
`15:30.19`	`*** join/#maemo Tsarpf (Tsarpf@GZYYKMCMXLVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)`
`15:31.37`	`jonwil`	`is tempted to reverse engineer all the places the dialer app talks to anything lower level that isn't a GUI call (or something like glib or libc) so that everything one needs to know to write a new dialer would be documented`
`15:32.16`	`jonwil`	`although that still wont catch all the wierd corner cases`
`15:32.29`	`jonwil`	`and the special stuff that goes on`
`15:32.47`	`jonwil`	`so its not really going to help at all`
`15:32.57`	`Necc`	`i smell paranoidism?`
`15:33.12`	`jonwil`	`:P`
`15:34.10`	`*** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@212-178-17-86.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua)`
`15:34.49`	`jonwil`	`The only way we are going to be able to implement features like call filtering, converting a voice call into a cheaper VoIP call etc is if hell freezes over and Nokia releases the dialer source :P`
`15:35.23`	`Venemo_N900`	`jonwil: or just wait for MeeGo where all the relevant stuff is OSS`
`15:35.45`	`jonwil`	`:P`
`15:35.59`	`jonwil`	`in any case doesn't matter to me`
`15:36.01`	`*** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at)`
`15:36.42`	`*** join/#maemo Tscheesy (~quassel@alfred.neversfelde.de)`
`15:36.44`	`jonwil`	`The stuff at http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant covers the issues and things I actually care about`
`15:36.48`	`jonwil`	`like Cell Broadcast SMS`
`15:39.22`	`*** join/#maemo abbera__ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-mdmsinnztunborin)`
`15:47.06`	`alterego`	`Nice old news on the forum.nokia site: "promo`
`15:47.07`	`alterego`	`icon`
`15:47.09`	`alterego`	`Nokia Focusing on Qt, Will Extend Reach for Developers"`
`15:47.26`	`Venemo_N900`	`alterego: wtf?`
`15:47.35`	`Venemo_N900`	`jonnylamb_: ping`
`15:47.44`	`*** join/#maemo sivang (~sivang@unaffiliated/sivang)`
`15:47.53`	`alterego`	`I'm just saying that they're still "promoting" Qt on the forum Nokia website.`
`15:48.06`	`*** join/#maemo Tscheesy (~quassel@alfred.neversfelde.de)`
`15:48.30`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly\|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly)`
`15:52.01`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)`
`15:52.28`	`Venemo_N900`	`alterego: of course they are`
`15:52.47`	`Venemo_N900`	`alterego: forum nokia will probably promote Qt forever`
`15:52.56`	`khertan`	`alterego, but not for wp7 :)`
`15:53.20`	`Venemo_N900`	`WP7 is supported by MSDN enough. no need for forum nokia to support it`
`15:53.52`	`khertan`	`Venemo_N900, hum ... did you mean that noone should support wp7 :)`
`15:54.27`	`Venemo_N900`	`khertan: MSDN has 98654334568 articles for wp7 and sl. why should anyone bother rewriting them?`
`15:54.54`	`crashanddie`	`wow`
`15:55.12`	`crashanddie`	`All 6 WP7 phone owners must be chuffed there's so many pages dedicated to them.`
`15:55.53`	`MohammadAG`	`xD`
`15:56.31`	`*** join/#maemo deno (~menos@eduroam-wireless-pat3.wireless.bris.ac.uk)`
`15:56.36`	`deno`	`ls`
`15:56.47`	`jaska`	`cd ..`
`15:56.53`	`MohammadAG`	`rm -rf...`
`15:57.02`	`deno`	`sudo reboot`
`15:57.06`	`deno`	`lol`
`15:57.13`	`deno`	`wrong window :)`
`15:57.19`	`rjel`	`rm /lib/glib*`
`15:57.44`	`rmrfchik`	`rmrfchik bless rm /lib`
`15:57.52`	`Venemo_N900`	`crashanddie: also there are the blogs of MS zealots which also have lots of info on it`
`15:58.02`	`rjel`	`rm /lib/libc* even ;)`
`15:58.02`	`khertan`	`Venemo_N900, yep why should anyone bother writing app for them`
`15:58.05`	`deno`	`reboot me && apt-get source LeonardoDaVinci-kernel`
`15:58.28`	`deno`	`now I have to compile and flash it`
`15:58.49`	`Venemo_N900`	`khertan: actually, it's a lot easier than writing apps in C or C++, IMO`
`15:59.19`	`khertan`	`Venemo_N900, mouarf`
`15:59.26`	`*** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@lns-bzn-50f-62-147-188-179.adsl.proxad.net)`
`15:59.41`	`khertan`	`Venemo_N900, it s easier to write app in python/qt than C#`
`15:59.42`	`khertan`	`:)`
`15:59.59`	`khertan`	`Venemo_N900, at least MeeGo/Maemo give the choice to developpers`
`16:00.00`	`Venemo_N900`	`khertan: I was a .NET dev for a long time`
`16:00.01`	`MohammadAG`	`tbh`
`16:00.09`	`MohammadAG`	`I find C++ easier than Python`
`16:00.10`	`MohammadAG`	`:p`
`16:00.29`	`khertan`	`MohammadAG, exactly ... it s a developper choice`
`16:00.40`	`MohammadAG`	`yep`
`16:01.40`	`khertan`	`i ve made a dropbox clone in 100 line of code in python for the server and 100 other line for the client with a rsync style for sending modifications only :)`
`16:01.45`	`MohammadAG`	`tests his app`
`16:01.55`	`*** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at)`
`16:01.58`	`MohammadAG`	`Now listening to "Forever and Always" by "Bullet For My Valentine"`
`16:02.00`	`MohammadAG`	`yay`
`16:02.20`	`khertan`	`is listening Bring them to light - Apocalyptica`
`16:02.28`	`MohammadAG`	`that's not on the N900 :p`
`16:02.57`	`*** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org)`
`16:02.57`	`*** join/#maemo flailingmonkey (628c565e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.140.86.94)`
`16:03.09`	`Venemo_N900`	`I would prefer developing in C# anytime. it's just that easier.`
`16:03.29`	`Venemo_N900`	`C++ with Qt is almost that easy too`
`16:03.32`	`flailingmonkey`	`isn't it all forced to be silverlight though`
`16:03.47`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: correct`
`16:04.04`	`alterego`	`C# is only easier because MSVS is more featureful.`
`16:04.23`	`alterego`	`I guess the language maybe a little easier, but then I'm pretty proficient with both so I can't really say :)`
`16:04.44`	`Venemo_N900`	`alterego: it's equally as easy in monodevelop too.`
`16:04.56`	`flailingmonkey`	`MSVS... is so god damn gigantic`
`16:05.01`	`Venemo_N900`	`alterego: have you heard about linq?`
`16:05.29`	`alterego`	`Yes`
`16:05.36`	`alterego`	`Heard about, never used.`
`16:05.47`	`Venemo_N900`	`alterego: if only Qt had anything like it...`
`16:06.07`	`alterego`	`Meh`
`16:06.13`	`alterego`	`What's wrong with SQL :P`
`16:06.17`	`flailingmonkey`	`it's not really something that makes sense in Qt`
`16:06.40`	`Venemo_N900`	`not talking about linq to sql`
`16:07.15`	`flailingmonkey`	`shoe horning functional programming in C#, was my impression of linq`
`16:07.29`	`Venemo_N900`	`let's say I have an array of items in which I want to find something`
`16:07.43`	`drj_cro`	`vleave`
`16:07.44`	`Venemo_N900`	`in C++, I have to write a 5-line loop`
`16:07.55`	`Venemo_N900`	`in C#, it's 1 line linq`
`16:08.05`	`flailingmonkey`	`except when people don't use linq :p`
`16:08.08`	`*** part/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@cpe-188-129-126-8.dynamic.amis.hr)`
`16:08.15`	`flailingmonkey`	`it's possible to make it one line w/ linq`
`16:08.16`	`FauxFaux`	`Venemo_N900: std::find(list, [i] { return i.bar() == 5; });`
`16:08.35`	`*** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian)`
`16:08.40`	`Venemo_N900`	`FauxFaux: what syntax is that?`
`16:08.50`	`FauxFaux`	`A guess at the C++0x lambda syntax.`
`16:08.51`	`flailingmonkey`	`yeah, functional programming shoe horned into object oriented programming`
`16:08.59`	`FauxFaux`	`Probably has a () in there too.`
`16:09.10`	`flailingmonkey`	`functions as first class objects, which you can pass around like any other object`
`16:09.22`	`Venemo_N900`	`FauxFaux: if C++0x was done, I would use this :)`
`16:09.28`	`flailingmonkey`	`possibly even modify, but I dunno what linq specifically is like`
`16:10.02`	`FauxFaux`	`You probably actually have to write int bar; std::find(foo, [bar](T t) -> boolean { return t.foo() == bar; }); // but it's still pretty good.`
`16:10.40`	`Venemo_N900`	`myItem = items.Single(x => x.Name == "Joe");`
`16:11.00`	`*** join/#maemo perolsen (~perolsen@ti0017a380-1018.bb.online.no)`
`16:11.03`	`FauxFaux`	`(Too used to Haskell; which is basically C++; filter (\x -> foo x == bar) list.)`
`16:11.05`	`flailingmonkey`	`still, you'll probably see people use the 5 line C# instead of LINQ. not just because they are more familiar with that way, but it is also easier to read`
`16:11.42`	`Venemo_N900`	`myItems = items.Where(x => x.LastName == "Smith").OrderBy(x => x.BirthDate).ThenBy(x => x.FirstName);`
`16:11.55`	`Venemo_N900`	`how may lines would this take in C++?`
`16:12.09`	`MohammadAG`	`1 if you don't use line breaks :p`
`16:12.50`	`flailingmonkey`	`MohammadAG: exactly ;)`
`16:13.02`	`Venemo_N900`	`MohammadAG: it'll be a long way before you reach lcuk's sense of humor.`
`16:13.11`	`flailingmonkey`	`Venemo_N900: that is one ugly jumble of code. less lines not better`
`16:13.25`	`MohammadAG`	`lcuk's sense of humor is unique, no one can reach it`
`16:13.40`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: it is very well understandable and does works well.`
`16:13.59`	`MohammadAG`	`actually, it can take 0 lines`
`16:14.08`	`MohammadAG`	`if you write to /dev/null`
`16:14.23`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: even if you write the method calls to separate lines, it'll be shorter than the C++ counterpart`
`16:14.31`	`flailingmonkey`	`Venemo_N900: I believe it works, but it isn't going to be more maintainable that way`
`16:14.51`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: many developers disagree with you.`
`16:15.08`	`flailingmonkey`	`Venemo_N900: many developers don't know how to write maintainable code either :p`
`16:15.09`	`*** join/#maemo apol_ (~apol@62.57.54.145.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`16:15.38`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: the ability to write nonmaintainable code is language-independent :P`
`16:15.47`	`lcuk`	`MohammadAG, \@`
`16:15.52`	`Venemo_N900`	`anyway, my point is: I wanna C++0x features!!!`
`16:16.01`	`flailingmonkey`	`passing functions as first-class objects is a great language feature though`
`16:16.13`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: yes`
`16:16.18`	`MohammadAG`	`lcuk, @/ to you too :p`
`16:16.22`	`MohammadAG`	`what's @/ :P`
`16:16.30`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: it is possible in C++ too, via function pointers`
`16:16.39`	`lcuk`	`angry old man waving his walking stick at you youngsters`
`16:16.48`	`Venemo_N900`	`flailingmonkey: just there's no lambdas in C++`
`16:16.56`	`MohammadAG`	`us whipper snappers?`
`16:16.58`	`Venemo_N900`	`lcuk: you are not old :P`
`16:17.02`	`MohammadAG`	`indeed`
`16:17.04`	`lcuk`	`I will be on Sunday`
`16:17.07`	`lcuk`	`a whole 36`
`16:17.16`	`flailingmonkey`	`yeah, it can be done, but the syntax to do it is much uglier compared to C#`
`16:17.17`	`MohammadAG`	`36 isn't old`
`16:17.20`	`MohammadAG`	`69 is`
`16:17.21`	`flailingmonkey`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:17.23`	`MohammadAG`	`giggles`
`16:17.28`	`lcuk`	`68 is fun, not old.`
`16:17.34`	`Venemo_N900`	`lcuk: I'm only 20`
`16:17.44`	`MohammadAG`	`you're 20`
`16:17.49`	`lcuk`	`has a dream of sitting on park bench with Tracy at that sorta age :)`
`16:18.03`	`Venemo_N900`	`:)`
`16:18.21`	`lcuk`	`haven't decided which bench yet lol`
`16:19.24`	`MohammadAG`	`you're 20?*`
`16:19.31`	`MohammadAG`	`i thought you were 18`
`16:19.59`	`MohammadAG`	`am I the youngest on the channel? :p`
`16:20.12`	`Venemo_N900`	`MohammadAG: I turned to 20 at 22 january`
`16:20.25`	`lcuk`	`happy belated birthday Venemo_N900`
`16:20.34`	`MohammadAG`	`very belated* :p`
`16:20.38`	`lcuk`	`did you add a birthday cake picture to your app to celebrate?`
`16:20.59`	`Venemo_N900`	`thanks :)`
`16:21.06`	`MohammadAG`	`I like how angry birds seasons turned into a love theme on 14/2`
`16:21.10`	`Venemo_N900`	`lcuk: it didn't occour me to do so`
`16:21.13`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker2 (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`16:21.22`	`MohammadAG`	`I wanted to do that with PSFreedom, but that app is basically dead`
`16:22.53`	`lcuk`	`Venemo_N900, there are a lot of amazingly good cakes`
`16:22.53`	`*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.123)`
`16:23.06`	`slonopotamus`	`X-Fade: ping`
`16:23.13`	`lcuk`	`ask noobmonkey, his wife bakes cakes :) and he is a great photographer`
`16:23.30`	`Venemo_N900`	`it's a bit lat now`
`16:23.42`	`Venemo_N900`	`but I will add cakes at your birthay :P`
`16:23.49`	`Venemo_N900`	`when is it gonna be?`
`16:23.57`	`lcuk`	`Sunday`
`16:24.11`	`lcuk`	`is going to Manchester Museum of Science and Industry :)`
`16:24.18`	`*** join/#maemo Necc (~user@g9g39y8fhr.adsl.datanet.hu)`
`16:24.22`	`Venemo_N900`	`the day after tomorrow? nice!`
`16:24.22`	`lcuk`	`they have a replica of the Manchester Mark I`
`16:24.38`	`lcuk`	`a huge room spanning computer`
`16:24.39`	`Venemo_N900`	`what's Manchester Mark I?`
`16:24.44`	`lcuk`	`that writes love letters :)`
`16:24.52`	`Venemo_N900`	`:)`
`16:25.31`	`lcuk`	`Venemo_N900, it was the evolution of the Manchester Baby and was one of the first stored program computers`
`16:25.33`	`lcuk`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Mark_1`
`16:25.42`	`Venemo_N900`	`lcuk: nice`
`16:26.03`	`Venemo_N900`	`lcuk: of couse, stored program computer was also invented by a Hungarian`
`16:26.54`	`lcuk`	`awesome`
`16:27.01`	`lcuk`	`who?`
`16:27.12`	`Necc`	`Janos Neumann`
`16:27.14`	`Venemo_N900`	`lcuk: John Neumann`
`16:27.40`	`Venemo_N900`	`lcuk: or Neumann JÃ¡nos, as we call him`
`16:33.30`	`*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.130)`
`16:33.35`	`mullein`	`is there or will there be a squeeze version of the maemo sdk?`
`16:34.14`	`slonopotamus`	`mullein: no`
`16:34.24`	`mullein`	`thanks`
`16:35.32`	`slonopotamus`	`mullein: err... did you mean "installable on squeeze" or "with squeeze-based contents"?`
`16:36.05`	`mullein`	`at the moment just installable on squeeze`
`16:36.31`	`mullein`	`i'd prefer a debian package over running the installer script`
`16:37.20`	`slonopotamus`	`huh. take virtualbox/vmware sdk image, it does the least pollution of host system`
`16:37.52`	`*** join/#maemo pcacjr_ (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr)`
`16:38.00`	`mullein`	`yeah that's probably what i'll do`
`16:39.36`	`slonopotamus`	`and, actually, virtualbox image is upgradable to ubuntu 10.04 (haven't tried 10.10)`
`16:42.25`	`*** join/#maemo tuho (~t@a91-153-38-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`16:45.19`	`mullein`	`actually i'll probably do a debian lenny install into a fresh virtualbox image and then install maemo sdk in that`
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`16:50.32`	`kerio`	`lenny? D:`
`16:50.41`	`kerio`	`it's awfully outdated!`
`16:51.16`	`*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`16:52.00`	`crashanddie`	`It's only a couple years old`
`16:58.06`	`*** join/#maemo vi_ (~user@178.97.6.127)`
`16:58.06`	`Venemo_N900`	`~ping`
`16:58.06`	`infobot`	`~pong`
`16:58.46`	`*** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@nor75-19-82-244-51-6.fbx.proxad.net)`
`17:00.00`	`*** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@212.117.169.230)`
`17:00.36`	`kerio`	`crashanddie: it's worse than the stable`
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`17:03.59`	`*** join/#maemo FIQ\|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq)`
`17:04.47`	`*** join/#maemo esaym153 (~esaym153@cpe-72-181-109-14.satx.res.rr.com)`
`17:06.54`	`*** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@212.103.70.50)`
`17:06.58`	`*** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-5-126-18.pool.telenor.hu)`
`17:07.51`	`crashanddie`	`kerio, well, squeeze hasn't been out for so long`
`17:08.24`	`crashanddie`	`I'm still installing etch machines at work :)`
`17:08.32`	`*** join/#maemo Almehdi (~communi@m83-182-133-88.cust.tele2.se)`
`17:10.50`	`*** join/#maemo Pillum (~quassel@p4FF0C1F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
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`17:17.33`	`GAN900`	`crashanddie, yo.`
`17:17.44`	`crashanddie`	`yo`
`17:19.49`	`*** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@a91-155-187-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`17:19.49`	`*** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa)`
`17:20.18`	`*** join/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156)`
`17:20.51`	`*** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro)`
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`17:26.29`	`*** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@j71044.upc-j.chello.nl)`
`17:28.48`	`piggz`	`qt, code once, run on meego, maemo, symbian, desktop and android http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvDDu9GXoLI .... very cool proof of concept`
`17:29.16`	`*** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)`
`17:29.25`	`*** join/#maemo ljl2 (~ljl@93-32-52-189.ip32.fastwebnet.it)`
`17:29.44`	`*** join/#maemo ljl2 (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl)`
`17:30.15`	`MohammadAG`	`Qt isn't a concept`
`17:30.39`	`piggz`	`MohammadAG: no, but the android bit is`
`17:31.00`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik)`
`17:31.22`	`MohammadAG`	`ah`
`17:33.00`	`slonopotamus`	`meh. looks like https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/curl_7.18.2-8lenny4 hanged`
`17:37.24`	`*** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@72-48-68-89.dyn.grandenetworks.net)`
`17:38.15`	`Venemo_N900`	`piggz: how well does it actually work on android?`
`17:38.51`	`piggz`	`Venemo_N900: no idea, just saw the video on twitter`
`17:39.28`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@2.96.94.1)`
`17:39.28`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman)`
`17:42.31`	`piggz`	`Venemo_N900: wow, even qt creator integration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_zPnQrM6E&NR=1&feature=fvwp`
`17:45.54`	`lardman`	`I seem to be getting QContact stuff pulled in from /usr/include while all the rest of my includes are from opt, how does Qt get its include paths from CONFIG += mobility12?`
`17:46.22`	`Venemo_N900`	`hm pig`
`17:46.24`	`Venemo_N900`	`hm piggz`
`17:46.31`	`Venemo_N900`	`interesting`
`17:48.48`	`piggz`	`Venemo_N900: certainly.....i like the idea of developing for n900, meego, symbian and android from one codebase`
`17:49.29`	`*** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@80.85.106.221)`
`17:49.29`	`*** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi)`
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`18:00.37`	`*** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de)`
`18:10.43`	`*** join/#maemo Guest71763 (~lenny@c-98-248-33-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`18:12.37`	`RST38h`	`...They point out that, weight-for-weight, pure silver is cheaper than most tablets, and that, like jewelery, tablets are highly thievable...`
`18:12.53`	`ccooke`	`RST38h: it's true.`
`18:14.38`	`javispedro`	`oth, if you try to steal your averagely nerd cs student's computer...`
`18:15.16`	`GAN900`	`Tablets are strange`
`18:15.31`	`GAN900`	`Who wants to hold an iPad in their hands all day?`
`18:15.41`	`GAN900`	`Except people who think it's fashionable.`
`18:16.44`	`javispedro`	`or apple heads ;)`
`18:16.59`	`javispedro`	`saw lots of them, even at the microsoft presentation`
`18:17.00`	`RST38h`	`same people`
`18:17.28`	`wmarone`	`iPads are stupidly popular`
`18:17.42`	`*** join/#maemo GNUtoo\|laptop (~gnutoo@host68-143-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`18:19.17`	`*** join/#maemo divan (~divan@212.90.177.150)`
`18:19.36`	`*** join/#maemo Guest71763 (~lenny@c-98-248-33-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`18:19.52`	`javispedro`	`I'm sick of the word exciting.`
`18:20.07`	`*** join/#maemo ColdFyre (~lenny@c-98-248-33-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`18:20.14`	`GAN900`	`Exciting community ecosystems!`
`18:20.15`	`javispedro`	`Seriously, nothing at the mwc was exciting.`
`18:20.24`	`divan`	`Can I use uboot-power with modified kernel power46-wl1 (with wi-fi drivers)?`
`18:20.31`	`javispedro`	`And this is a from a guy that finds setting up the virtualbox web service interesting..`
`18:20.33`	`GAN900`	`It's amazing how marketing can turn useful words into meaningless groups of noise.`
`18:20.53`	`GAN900`	`javispedro, not even the TI booth?`
`18:21.08`	`wmarone`	`GAN900: hire chimps, record the screeches and hooting. Instant marketing team!`
`18:21.10`	`MohammadAG`	`muhahaha http://i53.tinypic.com/1z4bspu.jpg`
`18:21.38`	`*** join/#maemo abbera__ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-avduqsoglojcckbz)`
`18:21.40`	`MohammadAG`	`first phase btw, looks shitty`
`18:21.40`	`javispedro`	`GAN900: I had already seen the largish Omap Zoom...`
`18:21.41`	`divan`	`Actually I tried just now and the phone went to reboot loop, so I restored the kernel with flasher. But anyway, I would like to understand why uboot for kernel-power46 doesn't work for kernel-power46-wl1`
`18:21.45`	`*** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs17.swisscom-mobile.ch)`
`18:21.47`	`wmarone`	`MohammadAG: waht is it?`
`18:21.50`	`wmarone`	`what*`
`18:21.51`	`GAN900`	`javispedro, nothing newer, then?`
`18:21.56`	`*** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com)`
`18:22.00`	`MohammadAG`	`Bluetooth messenger in Qt Mobility`
`18:22.07`	`MohammadAG`	`should be cross platform`
`18:22.09`	`javispedro`	`newer -- sure. exciting -- hardly...`
`18:22.10`	`wmarone`	`cool`
`18:22.14`	`GAN900`	`Ah`
`18:22.15`	`MohammadAG`	`works on Ubuntu and Maemo for now`
`18:22.22`	`GAN900`	`Android has really overwhelmed things.`
`18:22.27`	`javispedro`	`MohammadAG: nice!`
`18:22.32`	`GAN900`	`It's a sad time for mobile devices.`
`18:23.18`	`*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)`
`18:23.29`	`lcuk`	`javispedro, every app should tell a story.`
`18:24.03`	`*** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl)`
`18:24.27`	`GAN900`	`pictures lcuk droning on about the little engine that could.`
`18:24.33`	`javispedro`	`MohammadAG: how does it work, which protocol are you using?`
`18:24.52`	`RST38h`	`Rather than complain about Android, why not consider integrating it with your own platform?`
`18:24.55`	`javispedro`	`maybe I could then make it be able to talk to older Palm PDAs and find a new life for them =)`
`18:24.59`	`RST38h`	`I.e. Android + native SDL games for example`
`18:25.09`	`RST38h`	`Or, native desktop + android apps`
`18:26.29`	`GAN900`	`Anything it touches is evil.`
`18:26.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`patch_echo ' for ((i=0; i<256; i++)); do for led in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo $i >/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/leds\:lp5523\:kb$led/brightness; done; sleep 0.01; done' >/usr/lib/mce/modules/libkeypad.so`
`18:26.46`	`MohammadAG`	`javispedro, QBluetooth`
`18:26.54`	`MohammadAG`	`actually, sec`
`18:26.58`	`*** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@a88-112-162-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`18:27.03`	`MohammadAG`	`laptop hibernated :/`
`18:27.11`	`javispedro`	`don't mind`
`18:27.49`	`*** join/#maemo sge (~username@62.240.71.4)`
`18:28.14`	`MohammadAG`	`i'd appreciate it if i could disable hibernate on low battery`
`18:30.07`	`javispedro`	`so`
`18:30.14`	`javispedro`	`goes back to setting up vbox web service :)`
`18:30.53`	`MohammadAG`	`QRfcommServer and QBluetoothSocket`
`18:31.51`	`javispedro`	`rfcomm, easy enough.`
`18:32.11`	`javispedro`	`this means you will be able to talk to hyperterminal on windows ;)`
`18:32.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`venemo: sed -i 's/BacklightTimeout=30/BacklightTimeout=1' /etc/mce/mce.ini; stop mce; start mce`
`18:33.38`	`MohammadAG`	`hyperterminal?`
`18:33.56`	`MohammadAG`	`WTF is wrong with ubuntu`
`18:34.30`	`wmarone`	`?`
`18:34.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what's wrong with windoze, heard hyperterminal got nuked years ago`
`18:34.39`	`*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG)`
`18:34.55`	`javispedro`	`oh, nuked.`
`18:34.57`	`MohammadAG`	`it keeps saying battery critical`
`18:34.58`	`javispedro`	`feels old`
`18:35.03`	`wmarone`	`what does ubuntu have to do with hyperterminal?`
`18:35.10`	`MohammadAG`	`the battery meter says 98%`
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`18:35.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG: check voltage`
`18:35.37`	`MohammadAG`	`that's fine DocScrutinizer`
`18:35.42`	`MohammadAG`	`it's a problem on the software side`
`18:35.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lart bme`
`18:36.56`	`MohammadAG`	`bme?`
`18:36.59`	`MohammadAG`	`it's my laptop :p`
`18:37.12`	`javispedro`	`run bme on your laptop!`
`18:37.24`	`javispedro`	`just reboot it already`
`18:37.28`	`MohammadAG`	`installs qemu-arm-static!`
`18:37.32`	`MohammadAG`	`I did`
`18:37.35`	`MohammadAG`	`battery meter works`
`18:37.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`HAH!!! plugged in charger, screen undimmed (as it usually does), NO swoosh sound, NO charging notification`
`18:37.39`	`MohammadAG`	`but it says it has to hibernate`
`18:38.05`	`MohammadAG`	`the first time I plugged my N900 in the charger I was like wtf`
`18:38.41`	`MohammadAG`	`achipa, any ideas when Qt mobility 1.2 will work on Symbian/Windows/Mac?`
`18:38.48`	`MohammadAG`	`well, the BT API`
`18:40.29`	`achipa`	`MohammadAG: well... it was said that originally 1.2 was scheduled for meego 1.2, so that gives you a rough estimate...`
`18:41.12`	`achipa`	`of course some beta/rc/whatever release might come earlier`
`18:41.19`	`MohammadAG`	`hmm, April`
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`18:41.28`	`MohammadAG`	`well, good enough for me, thanks :D`
`18:42.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ohwell, bme wasn't running`
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`18:51.24`	`ShadowJK`	`mce reads vbus`
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`18:51.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:nod:`
`18:51.37`	`lardman`	`achipa: I can confirm those header file issues that were reported on TMO re mixing qtm 1.0 + 1.2`
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`18:52.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I'm like >:-(( for missing ALS.so in http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/modules`
`18:53.12`	`achipa`	`lardman: care to share a pointer ? I kinda missed the report`
`18:54.23`	`achipa`	`lardman: though honestly I would suggest NOT to have both -dev packages`
`18:54.36`	`lardman`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67588&page=2`
`18:54.49`	`lardman`	`yeah, I've removed the 1.0 package now`
`18:56.07`	`achipa`	`lardman: rright, but where's the original issue reported ? we only talked about imports/plugins, include never came up...`
`18:56.32`	`achipa`	`lardman: I do know that some BT headers are missing due to an upstream makefile error, but I guess that's not the problem here`
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`18:58.28`	`lardman`	`ah, I thought I'd read something in there about the headers`
`18:58.32`	`lardman`	`my fault then`
`18:58.59`	`lardman`	`but there's certainly a bug wherein it makes no odds which mobility version you choose, you still get the old headers included in the build too`
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`18:59.38`	`lardman`	`so mobility gives the 1.0 headers, mobility12 gives both old and new, which causes redefinition errors`
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`19:00.46`	`lardman`	`anyway not a biggie, as I now know what the solution is`
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`19:02.27`	`MohammadAG`	`wtf http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70048`
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`19:02.45`	`javispedro`	`yet another duplicate thread..`
`19:03.42`	`MohammadAG`	`achipa, another question, will QtM 1.1 really be pushed via the official SSU?`
`19:03.49`	`MohammadAG`	`or should we just give up and switch that to CSSU?`
`19:06.00`	`achipa`	`MohammadAG: no idea, really, always in motion, the future is`
`19:06.36`	`Venemo_N900`	`hey achipa :)`
`19:06.46`	`achipa`	`MohammadAG: though 1.1.1 has some quite significant maemo fixes so I wouldn't push anything prior to that`
`19:06.57`	`achipa`	`hey Venemo_N900`
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`19:08.18`	`Venemo_N900`	`achipa: how're you? :)`
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`19:24.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Venemo_N900: :-)`
`19:24.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`venemo: sed -i 's/BacklightTimeout=30/BacklightTimeout=1' /etc/mce/mce.ini; stop mce; start mce`
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`19:35.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Feb 18 20:28:14 IroN900 cellular: csd[784]: ISI_SMS .067627> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast`
`19:38.06`	`ieatlint`	`heh, i just noticed that in qtcreator 2.1rc, the mobile application template has this "#elif defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_5) \|\| defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_6)"`
`19:38.10`	`ieatlint`	`how sad`
`19:39.37`	`achipa`	`Venemo_N900: a bit tired, clocked 4 flights in under 24h yesterday...`
`19:40.09`	`Venemo_N900`	`achipa: nice`
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`19:41.58`	`ShadowJK`	`maemo 6 also known as harmattan also known as "MeeGo Instance" :)`
`19:42.24`	`ieatlint`	`yeah...`
`19:42.37`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: there is one (mobile) template that people care about - qt quick application. all the rest is legacy (=junk)`
`19:42.55`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: you are incorrect`
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`19:43.33`	`ieatlint`	`i can say that resolutely for 2 reasons: 1) qt quick and the c++ side are not separate at all, and it's VERY common to do at least part of your logic in straight qt (or build widgets in qt and display with qml)`
`19:43.56`	`ieatlint`	`and 2) qml isn't even on symbian phones yet (developer preview only), and all the apps currently out and such are straight qt...`
`19:44.11`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: urrm.... what you describe IS qt quick application`
`19:44.30`	`ieatlint`	`heh, you're separating them unnecessarily`
`19:44.55`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: as for 2), qtcreator 2.1 is QtSDK 1.1 which will be synced to the QML availability on symbian devices`
`19:45.05`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: separating what ?`
`19:45.11`	`ieatlint`	`qt quick from qt`
`19:45.24`	`ieatlint`	`and qtcreator 2.1 is still rc`
`19:45.24`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: ? it's not separate`
`19:45.43`	`ieatlint`	`heh`
`19:46.13`	`ieatlint`	`anyway, qml is considered this weird thing, an attempt to make qt easier... and its adoption is not across the board`
`19:46.42`	`achipa`	`qml is part of qtquick just as qt is, nothing separate or exclusive there`
`19:47.20`	`ieatlint`	`marketing has really gotten to you :P`
`19:47.27`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: and as said, qtcreator 2.1 = QtSDK 1.1 = QML = Ovi = devices = etc`
`19:47.53`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: erwhat ? :) enlighten me`
`19:48.54`	`ieatlint`	`qt 1.1 is in tp, it's not out, and qml is not the exclusive future of qt... it's an attempt to make it easier for people to use qt`
`19:49.18`	`ieatlint`	`qt quick is more of a term to describe applications that use qt declarative, and for practical purposes, QML == QtDeclarative == Qt Quick`
`19:49.39`	`kerio`	`am i stupid if i want an inPulse?`
`19:49.42`	`ieatlint`	`and it's not production`
`19:50.05`	`ieatlint`	`it's planned for the major symbian release coming out (and yes, i know that maemo pr1.3 supports it, but it's not considered production still)`
`19:50.31`	`ieatlint`	`and i know that >4.7, marked stable, supports it too... but it's still too new`
`19:52.23`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: okay, so to clear things up. QtSDK has nothing to with any of these. It serves as integrative purpose, and will be declared 'released' when all parts/services/firmwares have come up to par with the functionality provided`
`19:52.50`	`ieatlint`	`in the sense of official qt development, no`
`19:53.00`	`*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.113.112.68)`
`19:53.00`	`*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr)`
`19:53.03`	`ieatlint`	`but you're kidding yourself if you think people are going to adopt something that the sdk barely has support for`
`19:53.13`	`ieatlint`	`and that's where you said people only care about qt quick`
`19:53.48`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: no, I did not say that.`
`19:53.54`	`ieatlint`	`additionally, for mobile devices, as was the context, qml only has support for the n900... for symbian, there is no production support for qml`
`19:53.56`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: read back carefully what I said`
`19:53.59`	`ieatlint`	`and no date for it to arrive`
`19:54.31`	`ieatlint`	`you called qml the only part people care about and the rest "junk"`
`19:54.36`	`ieatlint`	`for mobile`
`19:54.41`	`achipa`	`TEMPLATES`
`19:54.51`	`achipa`	`(MOBILE) TEMPLATES at that`
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`19:55.12`	`ieatlint`	`:P`
`19:56.15`	`alterego`	`And MeeGo`
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`19:57.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`LOL - /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input* was at 28 real, then I gave it a shot of icespray and it froze at 17, now no matter what I do it stays there`
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`19:58.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`wonders if that's the silicon bug mentioned by TI`
`19:59.41`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: but since you opened that particular can of worms - qml is the de facto future of qt mobile development, especially on symbian`
`19:59.58`	`ieatlint`	`according to marketing, yes`
`20:00.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`looks really scary, when the thermal management doesn't see any other core temp than 17Â°C anymore, even during flash playback of videos`
`20:00.32`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: so, what's the largely embraced alternative ? qwidgets ? orbit ?`
`20:00.48`	`Venemo_N900`	`DocScrutinizer: interesting`
`20:01.02`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: based on what i've seen first hand, straight qt`
`20:01.20`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: define 'straight qt'`
`20:01.34`	`ieatlint`	`no qml`
`20:01.43`	`ieatlint`	`widgets, qgraphicsview to some extent`
`20:02.09`	`achipa`	`nobody works on qwidgets`
`20:02.18`	`achipa`	`and qml IS qgraphicsview made easy`
`20:02.19`	`RST38h`	`Doc: It's a zombie CPU!`
`20:02.19`	`lcuk`	`People around the world use various languages! QML is a bit long winded, I prefer English :P`
`20:02.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Venemo_N900: what? the temp thing or kbd-BL?`
`20:02.46`	`*** join/#maemo maheshk (~makulkar@nat/nokia/x-rbttticjjfkbrtgx)`
`20:03.00`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: what's your basis on your assertion that no one uses qwidgets?`
`20:03.00`	`lcuk`	`wonders what real people would do if they had to talk in markup language`
`20:03.15`	`javispedro`	`bash Microsoft.`
`20:03.17`	`ds3`	`<b>YiKeS!</b>`
`20:03.18`	`ieatlint`	`and qml is more like "let's throw some weird ass pseudo-javascript crap into the mix!"`
`20:03.29`	`rm_work`	`<em>lol</em>`
`20:03.31`	`ieatlint`	`most developers are kinda staring at it and asking wtf`
`20:04.01`	`ieatlint`	`the docs are mediocre, there are no books, and the training materials are in their first draft with major errors`
`20:04.13`	`lcuk`	`qml question: does it use the same javascript engine used in the html web thingy?`
`20:04.20`	`ieatlint`	`lcuk: yes`
`20:04.23`	`ieatlint`	`exact same one`
`20:04.41`	`lcuk`	`so, QML is indeed more optimal!`
`20:04.43`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: qwidgets basically don't exist on symbian (=so bad it hurts)`
`20:04.55`	`lcuk`	`since QML is shorter than HTML`
`20:05.02`	`rm_work`	`<hr />   <em>lcuk</em>: sup?<hr />`
`20:05.08`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: that's funny, i'm employed to work on mobile apps for symbian that use qwidgets`
`20:05.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`<Â¡>I'm talking like this <style color=red> all the time</color></Â¡>`
`20:05.58`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: and, again, you're twisting my words, I never said nobody USES qwidgets, but that nobody WORKS ON qwidgets`
`20:06.14`	`MohammadAG`	`uh`
`20:06.23`	`MohammadAG`	`QWidgets don't exist on symbian?`
`20:06.30`	`ieatlint`	`you said they "basically don't exist on symbian" ... and i'm telling you not only do they exist, i use them daily`
`20:06.45`	`achipa`	`(=so bad it hurts)`
`20:06.56`	`ieatlint`	`and seeing as i'm a contractor working on half a dozen projects over the course of a week from other companies, i can tell you that using qwidgets is the de facto method of symbian qt dev`
`20:07.38`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: which applications are we talking about ?`
`20:07.42`	`Venemo_N900`	`MohammadAG: they exist, but look very ugly`
`20:07.53`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: I kinda do some Qt development myself occasionaly`
`20:07.55`	`ieatlint`	`i'm not able to say`
`20:07.57`	`ieatlint`	`mobile apps`
`20:08.09`	`javispedro`	`fails to grasp what is left from Qt when you remove "widgets"`
`20:08.20`	`ieatlint`	`javispedro: qgraphicsview`
`20:08.44`	`Venemo_N900`	`javispedro: QtGui is just one module`
`20:08.56`	`ieatlint`	`qgraphicsview itself is a widget, but only to just display shit that isn't a widget`
`20:09.02`	`lcuk`	`javispedro, Qt-Mobility`
`20:09.04`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: I talked to a few hundres symbian app developers, and they don't seem to share your sentiment`
`20:09.06`	`RST38h`	`javispedro: QMobility!`
`20:09.22`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: i'm impressed you found a few hundred symbian devs :P`
`20:09.24`	`lcuk`	`a serious attempt at cross compatible simple APIs for common apps`
`20:09.47`	`javispedro`	`so, funnily enough, it won't abstract the UI toolkit but the accelerometer and on? :P`
`20:09.51`	`ieatlint`	`in truth, we're both arguing what the hypothetical future of a dead platform is though, haha`
`20:10.08`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: might have to do something with my day-job :)`
`20:10.13`	`MohammadAG`	`dead platform?`
`20:10.22`	`MohammadAG`	`Qt is far from dead`
`20:10.25`	`RST38h`	`laughs diabolically`
`20:10.26`	`ieatlint`	`symbian`
`20:10.28`	`RST38h`	`no, symbian`
`20:10.32`	`MohammadAG`	`oh, that`
`20:10.40`	`MohammadAG`	`yeah, it's dead`
`20:10.45`	`achipa`	`'mortally wounded' would probably describe it better`
`20:11.04`	`MohammadAG`	`needs a medic then :p`
`20:11.06`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: yeah, we're both arguing with info from our day jobs, and dancing around specifics to back up our claims due to certain contracts i suspect`
`20:11.39`	`ieatlint`	`so far the biggest push i've seen for qml has been from marketing guys`
`20:11.49`	`ieatlint`	`and i don't trust a word they say`
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`20:12.28`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: no contract involved, and I'm not a marketing dude`
`20:12.45`	`ieatlint`	`that said, quim gil, a nokia organiser for meego conferences, insists that "as far as he knows" the meego conference this spring is on, with nokia as a partner`
`20:12.54`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: i know you're not a marketing guy... you know too much about qt`
`20:13.47`	`ieatlint`	`he says that registration was supposed to open last monday, and claims they delayed it because they felt there was "too much going on" to announce it, but expects it'll be officially open for registration in the next week, maybe two`
`20:13.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Friiiiiiiidaaaaay! wait for me!`
`20:14.11`	`ieatlint`	`and an intel guy stood next to him nodding a lot`
`20:15.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what else he got left to do`
`20:15.11`	`ieatlint`	`drink`
`20:15.19`	`achipa`	`could be doing both y'know`
`20:15.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`maybe shake his head in dispair`
`20:15.35`	`achipa`	`:D`
`20:15.40`	`ieatlint`	`yeah... a bunch of meego people are about to quit i'm told`
`20:15.45`	`javispedro`	`or keep bashing microsoft.`
`20:16.09`	`ieatlint`	`not being laid off (yet?), but are too upset with their project being subjugated at best, cancelled at worst`
`20:17.00`	`GAN900`	`ieatlint, we all know who qgil is. :P`
`20:17.08`	`ieatlint`	`GAN900: just in case :P`
`20:17.11`	`javispedro`	`am I the only one that just discovered and is finds extremely surprising that despite all the hype qwidgets -- probably the most known feature of Qt -- "look ugly" under symbian?`
`20:17.23`	`GAN900`	`ieatlint, ESPECIALLY achipa. g`
`20:17.26`	`ieatlint`	`i hope the conference still goes on`
`20:17.43`	`GAN900`	`I can't imagine it wouldn't.`
`20:17.47`	`achipa`	`GAN900: I might, indeed :P`
`20:18.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Information on qgil (account qgil): Registered : Dec 08 21:02:27 2006 (4 years, 10 weeks, 2 days, 23:15:30, Last seen : Feb 17 02:32:08 2011 (1 day, 17:45:49 ago)`
`20:19.18`	`achipa`	`javispedro: ieatlint seems to disagree :) I saw them with my own eyes, and am kinda suprised people would WANT to use that over qml (apart from religious reasons)`
`20:19.18`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: mind if i ask where you're based?`
`20:20.05`	`*** join/#maemo dneary_ (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary)`
`20:20.23`	`ieatlint`	`actually a lot of what i've seen is not using things like pushbuttons, but things like redoing the paintevent to insert a pixmap so it doesn't look so much like ass`
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`20:21.22`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: yes, well, that's not really qwidgets then, more like self-implemented-ui-kit (finland, btw)`
`20:21.40`	`javispedro`	`hmm..`
`20:21.41`	`ieatlint`	`splitting hairs there`
`20:21.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sudo make me a sandwich!`
`20:22.03`	`ieatlint`	`what i can't believe is the lack if kinetic scrolling in scrollareas`
`20:22.23`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: and what gets you is not the buttons, but things like spinboxes, sliders, scrolls... exactly`
`20:22.49`	`achipa`	`though you can trick your way around that`
`20:22.59`	`ieatlint`	`yeah, but qml is a joke at the moment for many of those... you have to design your own stuff`
`20:23.40`	`trumee`	`will updating glib in fremantle break everything else?`
`20:23.47`	`javispedro`	`ieatlint: I guess that's the point...`
`20:23.56`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: symbian components are progressing nicely and you have a fairly usable subset`
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`20:24.10`	`ieatlint`	`i'll be very curious to see them`
`20:24.37`	`ieatlint`	`i also feel at the moment that with the symbian components coming out, making a qml app now is going to be reinventing the wheel only to end up with something that is nonstandard`
`20:24.39`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: I agree it's not production level, but in all honesty, I wouldn't call qwidgets on symbian production level either`
`20:24.43`	`trumee`	`i thought of building latest version of telepathy-sofiasip but it needs updates telepathy-glib which further needs updated glib`
`20:25.01`	`trumee`	`s/updates/updated`
`20:25.15`	`ieatlint`	`achipa: i've seem a couple very decent iphone app ports that looked identical in symbian based on qwidgets`
`20:25.24`	`ieatlint`	`so it's possible`
`20:25.31`	`ieatlint`	`but yeah, it requires you reinvent the wheel a bit there too`
`20:25.50`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: http://confusingdevelopers.wordpress.com/`
`20:25.57`	`achipa`	`:P`
`20:26.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`trumee: you're aware telepathy-sofiiasip won't change any little bit of how the system handles an inbound RTP stream?`
`20:26.51`	`achipa`	`ieatlint: hey, I'm not saying you absolutely totally cannot make a decent app in qwidgets, only that it's really painful to do and is a very specific solution - qml, hype or not, is a lot better in that regard, even now`
`20:27.12`	`ieatlint`	`i'm unconvinced... but we'll see`
`20:27.13`	`trumee`	`DocScrutinizer: yes, i am aware of that. But telepathy-sofiasip has fixes for some very annoying things`
`20:27.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ok, just felt like mentioning it`
`20:27.41`	`trumee`	`DocScrutinizer: like this, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8615`
`20:27.43`	`povbot`	`Bug 8615: telepathy-sofiasip uses lots of memory and causes the phone to swap`
`20:27.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`aaah yes`
`20:28.09`	`trumee`	`DocScrutinizer: atm N900 is incapable of talking to FreeSwitch`
`20:28.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that in turn WILL change system performance on RTP as well`
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`20:28.52`	`GAN900`	`Wish h-d had more inertia on the desktop scrolling.`
`20:29.02`	`trumee`	`DocScrutinizer: what i find hilarious is that Collabora uses FreeSwitch as their pbx, and it is broken on N900`
`20:29.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lol`
`20:30.05`	`DocScrutinizer`	`GAN900: MohammadAG tweaked that long ago iirc`
`20:30.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`might be simple`
`20:30.33`	`MohammadAG`	`i did the app menu`
`20:31.02`	`MohammadAG`	`GAN900, what do you mean by more inertia on the desktop?`
`20:31.03`	`trumee`	`MohammadAG: do you plan to update glib in CSSU?`
`20:31.15`	`MohammadAG`	`wouldn't that break things?`
`20:31.46`	`trumee`	`MohammadAG: Not sure about that myself`
`20:32.33`	`trumee`	`MohammadAG: But telepathy-sofiasip needs updated telepathy-glib which further needs a later glib`
`20:33.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`if done correctly you can install both versions of glib concurrently, I'd guess`
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`20:35.20`	`GAN900`	`MohammadAG, for scrolling panel-to-panel.`
`20:35.25`	`MohammadAG`	`ah`
`20:35.36`	`GAN900`	`It's a pain to swipe from one desktop to the next since you have to go so far.`
`20:35.43`	`GAN900`	`Be nice if you could sort of toss it.`
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`20:36.52`	`MohammadAG`	`GAN900, can you go into edit mode (gear icon), then swipe only a small bit from outside the screen?`
`20:37.02`	`MohammadAG`	`like the browser + mouse pointer`
`20:37.07`	`MohammadAG`	`is that what you want?`
`20:37.24`	`GAN900`	`Oooh`
`20:37.35`	`GAN900`	`Yeah, that's not bad at all.`
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`20:57.59`	`trumee`	`MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=950055&postcount=51`
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`21:30.30`	`MohammadAG`	`http://i52.tinypic.com/x1etds.jpg`
`21:31.14`	`MohammadAG`	`http://i54.tinypic.com/i55f9f.jpg <-- needs work`
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`21:31.56`	`vi__`	`wtf am i looking at mo?`
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`21:32.48`	`vi__`	`is there a stable version of opera mobile for n900?`
`21:33.14`	`vi__`	`the one from the repo crashaes as soon as i try and choose any links`
`21:33.19`	`MohammadAG`	`vi__, hildon-desktop`
`21:33.27`	`MohammadAG`	`modified to show 4 lines and 6 icons in the app launcher`
`21:33.55`	`lcuk`	`you need to modify the spacings MohammadAG`
`21:34.00`	`lcuk`	`but cool beans indeed`
`21:34.03`	`MohammadAG`	`lcuk, yeah, I noticed`
`21:34.07`	`piggz`	`vi__: works ok for me`
`21:34.19`	`vi__`	`mmm, i like it.`
`21:34.21`	`ShadowJK`	`works ok for me too`
`21:34.25`	`vi__`	`proceed`
`21:34.33`	`frals`	`man i suck at times`
`21:34.41`	`frals`	`forgot to ship the new code in last update of fmms`
`21:34.45`	`lcuk`	`:) hi frals`
`21:34.48`	`frals`	`only took me 5 days to realise it :D`
`21:34.49`	`MohammadAG`	`apparently, it's dynamic`
`21:34.49`	`MohammadAG`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:34.50`	`MohammadAG`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:35.37`	`frals`	`!seen w00t`
`21:35.41`	`frals`	`~seen w00t`
`21:36.14`	`infobot`	`w00t <~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 75d 2h 13m 58s ago, saying: ':p'.`
`21:36.14`	`frals`	`hm, maybe not`
`21:36.14`	`vi__`	`mohammed i have an suggestion`
`21:36.14`	`frals`	`hi lcuk, sup?`
`21:36.14`	`MohammadAG`	`infobot, seen w00t_`
`21:36.15`	`infobot`	`w00t_ <~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 5h 10m 52s ago, saying: 'yes'.`
`21:36.15`	`MohammadAG`	`shoots the bot`
`21:36.39`	`MohammadAG`	`hmm, am I lagging, or is infoboot very slow today`
`21:36.43`	`MohammadAG`	`vi__ shoot`
`21:36.54`	`vi__`	`there is no right click on n900`
`21:37.00`	`lcuk`	`frals, just mucking about with desktop background`
`21:37.02`	`lcuk`	`http://liqbase.net/20110218_024.jpg`
`21:37.15`	`MohammadAG`	`oh but there is`
`21:37.20`	`MohammadAG`	`it's remapped to tap and hold`
`21:37.27`	`MohammadAG`	`well, at least in apps that support it`
`21:37.30`	`vi__`	`dont talk about tap and hold!`
`21:37.45`	`MohammadAG`	`microB's URL bar supports right clicks (seriously, it shows a context menu with a BT mouse)`
`21:38.09`	`frals`	`lcuk: :)`
`21:38.48`	`kerio`	`cool`
`21:38.57`	`vi__`	`text input fields also react to right clicks`
`21:39.11`	`kerio`	`we need a way to make the touchscreen recognize different fingers`
`21:39.13`	`vi__`	`battle for wesnoth needs right clicks`
`21:39.22`	`vi__`	`so my idea is...`
`21:39.34`	`vi__`	`use proximiy sensor as a modifier`
`21:39.49`	`kerio`	`i want the touchscreen to act as in i'm rightclicking when i tap with the other end of the stylus`
`21:40.15`	`lolcat`	`kerio: How would that be possible?`
`21:40.26`	`MohammadAG`	`with a digitizer`
`21:40.32`	`vi__`	`i think it can be done with dbus-scipts and an xmodmap command to swap the mouse buttons`
`21:40.34`	`lcuk`	`kerio, n800 had detection for stylus vs finger`
`21:40.35`	`MohammadAG`	`current hw doesn't support it`
`21:40.46`	`lcuk`	`so if you pressed with stylus, it brought up one menu`
`21:40.50`	`vi__`	`what do you think mo?`
`21:40.53`	`lcuk`	`if you used finger it brought up a different one`
`21:41.06`	`MohammadAG`	`I'm not sure how X works tbh`
`21:41.07`	`ShadowJK`	`N810 too, but it rarely works on N810 for me`
`21:41.07`	`lcuk`	`it worked a lot of the time happily`
`21:41.14`	`kerio`	`how about ctrl+tap?`
`21:41.16`	`kerio`	`it works on os x`
`21:41.21`	`maheshk`	`guys any one know how to measure GPU performance on N900?`
`21:41.24`	`vi__`	`dude your spamming up my idea with this noobery`
`21:41.25`	`MohammadAG`	`lcuk, how did that work o_O`
`21:41.37`	`kerio`	`vi__: the proximity sensor is not abusable like that`
`21:41.43`	`lcuk`	`MohammadAG, point spot (stylus) versus splodge with finger`
`21:41.46`	`lolcat`	`kerio: Why not?`
`21:41.47`	`kerio`	`it's powered down like half the time`
`21:41.55`	`MohammadAG`	`kerio, lies`
`21:42.00`	`lcuk`	`different pressure levels and motion in the press`
`21:42.05`	`vi__`	`uh stfu`
`21:42.08`	`MohammadAG`	`it's always on`
`21:42.19`	`kerio`	`oh k`
`21:42.21`	`MohammadAG`	`get an infrared camera`
`21:42.26`	`MohammadAG`	`film the N900`
`21:42.32`	`MohammadAG`	`it shows the proximity sensor's light`
`21:42.39`	`kerio`	`yeah i'll get an infrared camera just for the purpose of figuring out if the proximity sensor is on`
`21:42.49`	`kerio`	`(i know a cheap webcam would work)`
`21:42.53`	`MohammadAG`	`well, the N86 cam also showed it`
`21:43.11`	`MohammadAG`	`light is a bad term to use of course`
`21:43.12`	`lolcat`	`Doesn't any digital camera show infared ligth?`
`21:43.14`	`maheshk`	`alterego, there?`
`21:43.16`	`vi__`	`mohammed is it possible to use proximity sensor as a modifier ala map it to control?`
`21:43.35`	`MohammadAG`	`of course, how otoh, is beyond me atm`
`21:43.45`	`GAN900`	`lolcat, no.`
`21:43.46`	`vi__`	`lol`
`21:43.53`	`vi__`	`ok mate`
`21:43.54`	`GAN900`	`Many have IR filters.`
`21:44.34`	`GAN900`	`lolcat, well, technically you're right.`
`21:44.37`	`lcuk`	`frals, are you drinking tonight?`
`21:44.52`	`GAN900`	`But most people don't have the tools to remove the filters without damaging their cameras.`
`21:44.54`	`frals`	`lcuk: nah, too friggin cold to be anywhere but in bed, why? :D`
`21:45.16`	`frals`	`lcuk: only had one beer with valerio earlier at your pizza place ;)`
`21:45.20`	`lcuk`	`just wondering, I am on Guinness tonight`
`21:45.36`	`lcuk`	`my son goes on holiday tomorrow, and for once - I can't wait for my birthday :)`
`21:45.45`	`lcuk`	`I am going to enjoy visiting the MOSI`
`21:46.00`	`lcuk`	`frals, :) please smile at the guy for me`
`21:46.10`	`lcuk`	`I will drop in for a kebab with him again soon.`
`21:46.17`	`frals`	`hehe`
`21:46.59`	`lolcat`	`GAN900: It shows my IR remote`
`21:51.07`	`GAN900`	`lolcat, which camera?`
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`21:54.46`	`nox-`	`moin`
`21:56.47`	`lolcat`	`GAN900: Any camera`
`22:03.11`	`GAN900`	`lolcat, we're going around in circles here.`
`22:03.11`	`*** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod)`
`22:03.28`	`GAN900`	`All digital sensors are capable of "seeing" IR.`
`22:03.30`	`lolcat`	`GAN900: Round round round like a record`
`22:03.50`	`GAN900`	`Most of them, through software or glass IR filters, are prevented from doing so.`
`22:03.54`	`lolcat`	`GAN900: Take your tv remote up against the camera on the N900`
`22:03.58`	`lolcat`	`You will see it`
`22:04.10`	`GAN900`	`lolcat, OK, so the camera in question is the N900 camera.`
`22:04.18`	`lolcat`	`Put it against a canon camera`
`22:04.20`	`ZogG`	`i hope meego device is not last and it would have multitouch resistence scren =)`
`22:04.48`	`GAN900`	`lolcat, my 7D and S95 both have IR filters.`
`22:05.01`	`mullein`	`what is a good external gps that i can connect to my n900?`
`22:05.05`	`lolcat`	`GAN900: I have newer found a camera that can't see iR`
`22:05.14`	`lolcat`	`mullein: It has an internal gps`
`22:05.19`	`GAN900`	`ZogG, I think resistive has been pretty well killed by Apple.`
`22:05.26`	`mullein`	`i know`
`22:05.39`	`mullein`	`and when i was in the woods it didn't fix its location after hours`
`22:05.42`	`*** join/#maemo dominikb (~quassel@62-47-240-57.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`22:05.48`	`mullein`	`i want something better for my hikes :)`
`22:05.51`	`lolcat`	`How did apple kill resistive screens+`
`22:05.52`	`lolcat`	`?`
`22:06.31`	`GAN900`	`By making everybody think they want capacitive screens`
`22:06.37`	`lcuk`	`which apple devices had resistive screens ?`
`22:06.59`	`lolcat`	`The N900 has resistive screen?`
`22:07.05`	`GAN900`	`So all of the manufacturers are tripping all over themselves to release only capacitive devices.`
`22:07.08`	`GAN900`	`lcuk, Newton.`
`22:07.14`	`lcuk`	`no, the N900 has a high precision screen.`
`22:07.21`	`GAN900`	`lolcat, yes, as did all other Maemo devices for it.`
`22:07.30`	`lcuk`	`GAN900, lol`
`22:07.31`	`lolcat`	`Wish I had a high precision thumb`
`22:07.39`	`GAN900`	`lcuk, which uses resistive touch technology.`
`22:07.44`	`lcuk`	`lolcat, cut your nails right`
`22:07.47`	`GAN900`	`lcuk, you would LOVE the Newton.`
`22:07.51`	`lcuk`	`GAN900, I know`
`22:08.24`	`lcuk`	`GAN900, did you see, I changed my background picture http://liqbase.net/20110218_024.jpg`
`22:08.37`	`lcuk`	`is a photograph I took on holiday in England :)`
`22:08.50`	`lolcat`	`lcuk: Huh?`
`22:09.11`	`ZogG`	`GAN900 until we didn't have multitouch resistence`
`22:09.31`	`lcuk`	`its not the technology, its what you do with it.`
`22:09.39`	`lcuk`	`s/its/it's/`
`22:09.43`	`GAN900`	`ZogG, Stantum has been available for a few years now, yet nobody has shipped a single product.`
`22:09.47`	`lolcat`	`Capacitive screens only can be touched with fingers?`
`22:09.56`	`lcuk`	`*warm fingers`
`22:09.57`	`GAN900`	`Or pork sausages.`
`22:10.05`	`GAN900`	`Have to be grade aa, though.`
`22:10.08`	`lolcat`	`That is boring`
`22:10.31`	`GAN900`	`lcuk, that is a picture in need of cropping.`
`22:10.40`	`ZogG`	`lcuk nope, before we could have only fake software multitouch`
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`22:11.23`	`ZogG`	`GAN900 a lot of money?`
`22:12.31`	`ZogG`	`but resistance is good cause it can know the strength and accuracy and how thin/wide line should be`
`22:12.33`	`GAN900`	`ZogG, no real market interest.`
`22:13.30`	`ZogG`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfh7WGNk4KU`
`22:13.35`	`alterego`	`maheshk: yup wassup?`
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`22:16.21`	`alterego`	`maheshk: you usually measure performance with benchmarks`
`22:16.57`	`maheshk`	`alterego, no tool/command to check check GPU utilization?`
`22:17.37`	`alterego`	`I don't believe so, no.`
`22:18.00`	`alterego`	`You mean like % utilisation?`
`22:18.11`	`alterego`	`I'm not sure it even makes that much sense.`
`22:19.26`	`alterego`	`Basically when it comes to gpu stuff, you try and maintain a certain framerate.`
`22:20.13`	`alterego`	`So if you're pushing it too hard you fps will drop, otherwise you should get a constant interval.`
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`22:23.08`	`alterego`	`I suppose in theory, you could set up and render an empty scene and hammer it, do as many buffer swaps you can and measure the performance, then as you add polygons or enable multisampling, you can use the frame drops to calculate a pseudo percentage.`
`22:23.25`	`alterego`	`But I'm still not sure that makes much sense :)`
`22:25.16`	`maheshk`	`true, actually I disabled some accelerated compositing features in my video player and wanted to see if its still using GPU`
`22:25.36`	`maheshk`	`even if not exact % but just to make sure`
`22:28.02`	`maheshk`	`alterego, I guess it is still using GPU because my CPU doesnt go beyond 30% :)`
`22:28.40`	`alterego`	`maheshk: it will use the gpu if you're telling it to. How are you rendering your video?`
`22:29.11`	`maheshk`	`qgraphicscene + qvideoitem`
`22:29.22`	`maheshk`	`thats all I care about.. using qtmobility apis basically`
`22:29.32`	`alterego`	`With a QGLWidget as the viewport?`
`22:29.40`	`maheshk`	`so it can either go with raptor or openGL in these case`
`22:30.43`	`maheshk`	`not sure about QGLWidget though.. any easy way? I think i can GDB on device right? as long as i have debug binaries`
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`22:31.57`	`alterego`	`Well, you create a QGraphicsView, you setScene(scene) then you setViewport(new QGLWidget)`
`22:32.13`	`alterego`	`That's the short version,you obviously need to do it properly ;)`
`22:33.47`	`alterego`	`There's a nice example of it in the docs about the Qt Graphics Framework.`
`22:33.47`	`trumee`	`anybody using lxp wifi drivers? Is it possible to get Fapman working with his updated osso-wlan package?`
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`22:40.22`	`alterego`	`Anyhow, bed time. g'night folks.`
`22:41.13`	`kaie`	`hi. "nokia n900 german version", do I need "global" firmware? (out of "usa", "middle east+africa", "uk", "global")`
`22:41.33`	`psycho_oreos`	`yes]`
`22:42.01`	`kaie`	`thx`
`22:42.17`	`psycho_oreos`	`keine problem`
`22:42.21`	`kaie`	`:)`
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`22:45.12`	`alterego`	`would really like OpenCL support for the pvr sgx in the N900`
`22:47.14`	`alterego`	`sighs, doesn't look likely,`
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`22:47.39`	`alterego`	`goes back to dreaming of GPU accelerated FFTs and facial recognition algorithms.`
`22:49.37`	`alterego`	`Could probably do it in a fragment shader, oh well.`
`22:49.51`	`alterego`	`zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZZ`
`22:50.07`	`MohammadAG`	`night alterego`
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`22:56.02`	`*** join/#maemo T7g (~t7g@d47-69-29-118.try.wideopenwest.com)`
`22:57.01`	`*** join/#maemo rzr (~rzr@rzr.ww7.be)`
`22:58.40`	`*** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@188.115.191.207)`
`23:07.32`	`*** join/#maemo dominikb_ (~quassel@62-47-231-50.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`23:09.35`	`*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`

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