| 00:03.01 | blackthorne | meego isn't dead? |
| 00:03.20 | blackthorne | i've heard that partnership with Microsoft for the high range smart phones |
| 00:07.07 | DocScrutinizer | meego is a pile of sourcecode, it can't die. The question is who's keeping up the support and development for it, for which platform, on which level |
| 00:07.17 | Sc0rpius | and who will care |
| 00:07.28 | DocScrutinizer | Intel will, of course |
| 00:07.31 | Sc0rpius | if there are no devices for it, nobody will care. |
| 00:07.36 | DocScrutinizer | not for handset UX though |
| 00:07.42 | Sc0rpius | then for netbooks? |
| 00:08.58 | DocScrutinizer | there's no such thing like a device for an OS. There's OS support for devices, and that's the question, as mentioned above |
| 00:10.48 | Sc0rpius | we'll see |
| 00:10.48 | Sc0rpius | to me it's dead right now. |
| 00:10.49 | Sc0rpius | who will develop applications to an OS that is not sold in any device? |
| 00:10.49 | Sc0rpius | nobody will. |
| 00:10.49 | DocScrutinizer | that's a much better way to put it |
| 00:10.49 | DocScrutinizer | and yes, I agree on that |
| 00:12.57 | Ken-Young | If there's a decent meego phone released, I'll at least port some code for it. |
| 00:13.58 | blackthorne | DocScrutinizer: even though, I think Sc0rpius was trying to figure out for what devices does MeeGo will offer support for, putting the things the way you want it |
| 00:14.32 | blackthorne | netbooks? tablets? |
| 00:14.43 | DocScrutinizer | obviously not for handset UX |
| 00:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | Intel is in tablet business aiui, then I heard some car manufacturer is planning to use meego for entertainment (dummy up the childs on backseat) |
| 00:16.00 | blackthorne | the stock owners, mostly non technical guys seem to be right this time when punishing Nokia for lack of focus |
| 00:16.04 | Ken-Young | Does the fact that Microsoft is not pushing WP7 for tablets, combined with the mothballing of meego, mean that Nokia has no tablet ambitions at all anymore? |
| 00:16.21 | blackthorne | Ken-Young: Microsoft has software for tables |
| 00:16.23 | blackthorne | tablets |
| 00:16.40 | Ken-Young | blackthorne, But not WP7-based, as I understand it. |
| 00:16.49 | blackthorne | actually they started long time ago, before Apple |
| 00:17.01 | blackthorne | Ken-Young: it's enough to take out room for Nokia |
| 00:17.08 | DocScrutinizer | Elop said they'll ship a meego *device* in 2011. I suspect that'll be a tablet |
| 00:17.17 | Ken-Young | blackthorne, Aren't they pushing a derivative of regular Windoze for their tablets, though? |
| 00:17.42 | blackthorne | Ken-Young: yes, that's why I don't see nothing good out of it for Nokia |
| 00:18.02 | blackthorne | Nokia bet a lot with Qt, what are they going to do with it? |
| 00:18.09 | Pavlov_ | i doubt they do anything with Qt |
| 00:18.14 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/council/GeneralAntilles) |
| 00:18.15 | Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, That would make sense, but since it just an experimental device for them, it still would mean Nokia has not real tablet ambitions. |
| 00:18.37 | *** join/#maemo timeless (58730824@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 00:18.45 | timeless | anyone here familiar w/ facebrick |
| 00:18.55 | blackthorne | too much for experimental stuff... first it was Maemo, now MeeGo is just an experiment too? |
| 00:18.59 | ieatlint | there's a decent possibility that qt will be released under a bsd licence |
| 00:19.20 | blackthorne | ieatlint: currently it's LGPL, right? |
| 00:19.43 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@32.154.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 00:19.43 | Ken-Young | blackthorne, Beware of manufactures that release "developers' sneak peak" devices. |
| 00:20.02 | ieatlint | i don't have the details of the actual sale of qt to nokia, but http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqt_announcement.php implies that they left an option for the kde foundation to release qt under a bsd licence |
| 00:20.18 | alterego | blackthorne: it's not an experiment. It is a real project, a project now that Nokia will only be using for innovations and r&d. |
| 00:20.20 | ieatlint | blackthorne: yes, it's LGPL and GPL for free i think |
| 00:20.42 | blackthorne | ieatlint: but that was Trolltech property. KDE had anything to say about it? |
| 00:20.51 | alterego | blackthorne: the platform is still under development and still has a good chance to be the future. |
| 00:20.52 | ieatlint | alterego: you're kidding yourself... nokia is sidelining meego and cutting its budget massively |
| 00:21.07 | *** join/#maemo sneakret (~sneakret@mithril.fjarlq.com) |
| 00:21.09 | ieatlint | blackthorne: dunno, that kde page certainly implies they do |
| 00:21.14 | alterego | ieatlint: so? The project isn't run by Nokia ffs. |
| 00:21.16 | timeless | ieatlint: who announced budget cuts for whatever? |
| 00:21.35 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 00:21.39 | alterego | timeless: ++ |
| 00:21.45 | ieatlint | uh, let me get the slide |
| 00:21.46 | blackthorne | I've read that Symbian is still going to be used! So it's WM7, Symbian, MeeGo for Nokia? 2 of them have to go |
| 00:22.09 | ieatlint | and when one of the two major partners of meego drops out, it takes a platform that would struggle for acceptance and subjigates it even more |
| 00:22.14 | _trine | what I want to know is,, is the channel name going to change to microgo |
| 00:22.20 | timeless | blackthorne: you missed s40 |
| 00:22.24 | alterego | ieatlint: hasn't happened yet, and people have been saying that will happen after the first meego device is released. |
| 00:22.27 | SpeedEvil | Meego is producing one more device withnokia. |
| 00:22.29 | blackthorne | talking about the smart phones |
| 00:22.37 | SpeedEvil | They've committed to. |
| 00:22.42 | timeless | SpeedEvil: no, we're producing *one* device |
| 00:22.47 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil: they committed to meego as their major platform too |
| 00:22.55 | timeless | we (MeeGo) have produced *zero* devices to date |
| 00:23.04 | SpeedEvil | timeless: Err - yes |
| 00:23.08 | timeless | our previous incarnation (Maemo) produced one phone :) |
| 00:23.13 | ieatlint | the n9 is cancelled, nokia has decided meego will not be a major platform for them... they did say they would produce a device, but i wouldn't count on it |
| 00:23.25 | SpeedEvil | They also said it'd be a phone. |
| 00:23.33 | SpeedEvil | That may have been a mis-statement in passing though. |
| 00:23.34 | pupnik | can companies sell phone kits without fcc/ce certification? |
| 00:23.40 | Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, Is that official? |
| 00:23.50 | timeless | pupnik: in India or China perhaps? |
| 00:23.58 | SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: It was announced at ~12:31 on the stream from nokia.com/news/ |
| 00:24.10 | ShadowJK | CE is self-certified ;p |
| 00:24.12 | SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: I wasn't however recording it. |
| 00:24.22 | SpeedEvil | CE can be self-certified - if you're sure of yourself. |
| 00:24.32 | Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, Well, that's a bit of good news, at least. |
| 00:24.34 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil: the statements i saw just said a 'meego device' |
| 00:24.44 | MohammadAG | album view working in open source media player |
| 00:24.53 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: It wasn't in any of the statements I saw - it was during the QA |
| 00:24.54 | timeless | http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488004 |
| 00:24.55 | ShadowJK | when they said meego device I assumed slapping Nokia sticker on Lenovo Ideapad and doubling the price ;p |
| 00:25.00 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 00:25.08 | timeless | > Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year. |
| 00:25.09 | ieatlint | yeah, what i read said just 'device' |
| 00:25.21 | pupnik | i don't see the use for netbook Os's |
| 00:25.21 | timeless | 'MeeGo-related product' |
| 00:25.32 | Pavlov_ | meego stickers |
| 00:25.35 | timeless | all of those words are key |
| 00:25.50 | SpeedEvil | It's a source CD. |
| 00:25.58 | Pavlov_ | maybe they will produce stuffed meego animals |
| 00:26.02 | alterego | Meh, anything Elop says is balls .. |
| 00:26.10 | timeless | pavlov: with a usb port? :) |
| 00:26.17 | Pavlov_ | nah |
| 00:26.21 | Pavlov_ | meego branded boots? |
| 00:26.28 | timeless | tyres! |
| 00:26.38 | SpeedEvil | realises! |
| 00:26.42 | Ken-Young | Meego branded pink slips, for their programmers. |
| 00:26.43 | alterego | I just want a freakin' t-shirt! |
| 00:26.58 | timeless | i'm pretty sure i have a meego tshirt |
| 00:26.59 | SpeedEvil | They've said they have the freedom to brand windows phone 7 as they like. |
| 00:27.00 | timeless | i have no idea where it is |
| 00:27.10 | rm_you | waves at timeless |
| 00:27.14 | timeless | hi |
| 00:27.15 | SpeedEvil | This means that the meego device will actually be a theme for windows phone. |
| 00:27.15 | rm_you | crazy times, eh :P |
| 00:27.20 | timeless | so, i tried Facebrick |
| 00:27.24 | timeless | it doesn't work |
| 00:27.28 | rm_you | lol |
| 00:27.31 | ieatlint | anyway, no one should count on a nokia meego device ever hitting a retail store... it may happen, they've said it'll happen, but based on their statements, it wouldn't make financial sense to do so |
| 00:27.40 | timeless | and i can't get the native facebook client to work either |
| 00:28.08 | timeless | ieatlint: the 770..n810 didn't make financial sense |
| 00:28.13 | timeless | that didn't stop us from shipping them |
| 00:28.13 | rm_you | i had some issues once with a weird version of the account integration library, had to apt-get upgrade manually to get it fixed |
| 00:28.23 | timeless | the n810 wimax edition didn't either |
| 00:28.28 | ieatlint | timeless: yeah, and they hired a new ceo to turn around their falling profits and eliminate things that didn't make sense |
| 00:28.30 | Ken-Young | I'm surprised facebrick became abandonware. THe developer seemed so enthusiastic, initially. |
| 00:28.32 | timeless | we even shipped that |
| 00:28.35 | _trine | This could be more than the end of meego it could be the beginning of the end of Nokia |
| 00:28.36 | ieatlint | looks like he's doing just that |
| 00:28.42 | alterego | I dunno, this community has a lot of talent. They'd be very stupid to miss the opportunity. |
| 00:28.43 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:28.48 | timeless | Ken-Young: oh, it's abandon-ware? shame |
| 00:28.53 | alterego | But clearly they are stupid ... |
| 00:28.55 | Ken-Young | timeless, I think so. |
| 00:28.55 | timeless | internetishard: please don't irc as root@ |
| 00:28.59 | internetishard | what can I do ahead of time to this android app I'm building to hasten portability to the nokia? |
| 00:29.01 | dotblank | SpeedEvil, what? |
| 00:29.09 | internetishard | timeless, I will if I want, sorry it bothers you. |
| 00:29.15 | Pavlov_ | build it on the web |
| 00:29.26 | dotblank | SpeedEvil, so pretend the wp7 isn't actually wp7 but instead meego |
| 00:29.37 | MohammadAG | <timeless> so, i tried Facebrick |
| 00:29.45 | timeless | MohammadAG: yeah... |
| 00:29.47 | MohammadAG | <timeless> it doesn't work |
| 00:29.51 | timeless | MohammadAG: yeah... |
| 00:29.51 | MohammadAG | facebook fucked up their API, libqfacebook was broken |
| 00:30.02 | MohammadAG | and it was broken more than once, so I guess the dev got fed up |
| 00:30.16 | timeless | MohammadAG: does that explain why the native client doesn't work? |
| 00:30.20 | timeless | facebrick gives an error parsing a feed |
| 00:30.29 | MohammadAG | what native client? |
| 00:30.42 | timeless | i have a VoIP account option for Facebook |
| 00:30.58 | MohammadAG | you mean Chat? |
| 00:30.58 | timeless | is that not native? |
| 00:31.37 | timeless | i guess? |
| 00:31.38 | MohammadAG | if you're talking about chat, I just signed in |
| 00:31.48 | MohammadAG | seems to be working fine |
| 00:31.50 | rm_you | yes, there is a base facebook client that shipped with the device |
| 00:31.56 | rm_you | i havent tried it in a while |
| 00:31.57 | rm_you | let me check |
| 00:32.12 | MohammadAG | that's just jabber with an icon on top |
| 00:32.22 | ieatlint | alterego: bleh, finally found it.. http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/rip-symbian/ |
| 00:32.27 | MohammadAG | it was added when facebook exported their chat servers via jabber |
| 00:32.37 | ieatlint | that page has a slide that visualises their future meego r&d spending |
| 00:32.42 | rm_you | no, there's another one, that has a home widget |
| 00:32.53 | ieatlint | it's not numbers, but it's a very obvious clue as to what their plans are |
| 00:32.57 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: wait wait |
| 00:32.58 | MohammadAG | that works too rm_you |
| 00:33.25 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: you're saying meego devision of Nokia is planning to build a device with Nokia, right? |
| 00:33.28 | ieatlint | and you can see the green "meego" block turn into a green too-small-for-text sliver |
| 00:33.51 | timeless | DocScrutinizer: 'with nokia'? |
| 00:34.08 | DocScrutinizer | well, meego has no reflow street |
| 00:34.47 | DocScrutinizer | so I guess it's like with OM and FIC, one subdivision is ordering hw from another subdivision |
| 00:36.00 | timeless | om? fic? |
| 00:36.00 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, key point of my question has been "YOU (meego division of Nokia) are building a device"? |
| 00:36.08 | DocScrutinizer | nevermind that |
| 00:36.16 | ieatlint | http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokia%E2%80%99s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/ also suggests that a meego phone by nokia could be announced at MWC just the same, and has a couple rumours about it |
| 00:36.17 | timeless | well, that's what the press release said |
| 00:36.22 | timeless | i have to trust it |
| 00:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but press release didn't mention WHO is building the meego-related product |
| 00:36.53 | ieatlint | intel made that same mistake ;p |
| 00:37.00 | internetishard | what can I do ahead of time to this android app I'm building to hasten portability to the nokia? |
| 00:37.07 | timeless | hrm, it didn't... |
| 00:37.25 | timeless | looks for evidence that MeeGo computers will build the meego-related product |
| 00:37.30 | DocScrutinizer | who inside the many subdivisions of Nokia... |
| 00:38.15 | timeless | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TseMbC8cpasJ:www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Technology/pdf/Nokia_software_strategy_white_paper.pdf+site:www.nokia.com+meego+device&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com is amusing |
| 00:38.29 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: that'S what I'm asking. If it were meego branded rubber boots, then probably it weren't meego *computers* division to build it |
| 00:38.47 | timeless | fair enough |
| 00:38.48 | *** join/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-76-175-234-46.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:38.54 | timeless | afaik we don't have a rubber boots division |
| 00:39.13 | timeless | and i believe there's a legal agreement that says tires are to be built by nokian instead of nokia |
| 00:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | you know I'm not talking hard facts here :-) |
| 00:39.47 | timeless | http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/corporate-governance/group-executive-board/alberto-torres - DocScrutinizer Oops. Lost? Don't worry, it's not serious, but it looks like the page you've requested isn't available. |
| 00:39.59 | DocScrutinizer | but aiui the Nokia MeeGo subdivision is very phone-centric |
| 00:40.00 | timeless | ... |
| 00:40.14 | timeless | DocScrutinizer: we're very one product centric ;-) |
| 00:40.49 | timeless | ok, this nokia searching stuff is hard |
| 00:41.05 | timeless | i can't find proof that our one product is the one nokia plans to ship |
| 00:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | and was your focus changing massively regarding type of your product to build, recently? |
| 00:41.29 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 00:41.29 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 00:42.07 | timeless | no |
| 00:42.16 | DocScrutinizer | ok, thanks. :-D |
| 00:42.33 | ieatlint | yeah, i know nokia employees didn't get any real advanced warning |
| 00:42.46 | timeless | sure we did, our family told us to read articles in the NYT! |
| 00:42.51 | timeless | or WSJ! or WPost! |
| 00:42.51 | ieatlint | haha |
| 00:42.55 | ieatlint | yeah :9 |
| 00:42.57 | ieatlint | :( |
| 00:43.21 | timeless | plus, we got a twitter alert about two turkeys and an eagle! |
| 00:43.40 | timeless | although, i doubt most of us had twitter alerts for turkeys or eagles... |
| 00:43.45 | ieatlint | i wish everyone at nokia luck over the next few weeks when the pink slips start going out :( |
| 00:44.49 | *** part/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | pink slips ? o.O |
| 00:45.44 | rm_you | (termination notices) |
| 00:46.20 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 00:46.57 | ieatlint | heh, yeah, guess it's an americanism... it's based off notion that layoff notices are on pink slips of paper |
| 00:47.40 | Ken-Young | Like "green cards". |
| 00:47.59 | DocScrutinizer | like green mankini |
| 00:48.03 | budfive | Ken-Young: green cards are actually pink |
| 00:48.05 | ieatlint | haha, yeah.. not actually green |
| 00:48.23 | ieatlint | and layoff notices aren't actually pink (typically, anyway) |
| 00:48.56 | DocScrutinizer | and borat really looks awesome in a green mankini |
| 00:49.19 | ieatlint | we also call the title/certificate of ownership for a vehicle a "pink slip", oddly (also not typically pink) |
| 00:49.40 | timeless | nods |
| 00:49.47 | timeless | we're kinda funny about our colors |
| 00:49.55 | timeless | got a pair of rose colored glasses? |
| 00:50.11 | timeless | actually, i think the majority of finns here have pairs they could give up |
| 00:50.33 | DocScrutinizer | well, our drivers' licences here actually are pink (have been), but they are just caled cardboard |
| 00:50.42 | javispedro | notes the lemmings have already forgot about how bad MS is now that the noksoft phone "concepts" are out, what with the engadget post having +2500 drools |
| 00:51.13 | ieatlint | heh, all i can say is i went out today and bought an android phone |
| 00:51.17 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:51.25 | DrGrov | Good evening guys and gals |
| 00:51.50 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: seems to me like they'll terribly need those rose colored glasses soonish |
| 00:52.15 | Ken-Young | ieatlint, Why the rush to abandon maemo - nothing works anymore poorly than it did last Thursday. |
| 00:53.00 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: microkia, not noksoft |
| 00:53.12 | ieatlint | Ken-Young: nothing works any better than it did a year ago really either... also, my mobile carrier had an awesome deal for this weekend, heh |
| 00:53.26 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: hey, I love doing Nok* word games. DrNokSnes, remember? =) |
| 00:53.30 | ieatlint | got a phone with a $499 retail price for $40 |
| 00:56.41 | mikki-kun | uhhhh, any bash pros around? |
| 00:57.01 | budfive | mikki-kun: ask and find out :) |
| 00:57.23 | mikki-kun | i did switch my PS1 on my n900, and tried adding color, but that kind of killed it badly... |
| 00:57.25 | Ken-Young | They may be too bashful to respond. |
| 00:57.53 | mikki-kun | my PS1 is "\t \e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h \e[34m>\e[0m " |
| 00:58.40 | mikki-kun | and when i input there, when ssh'd to my n900 more that 113 chars it resets the line and starts writing at the beginning of the line, overwriting PS1 and what is typed before that |
| 00:58.50 | *** join/#maemo beford (~0o0o0@186.112.188.110) |
| 00:58.52 | *** join/#maemo beford (~0o0o0@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 00:59.46 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 01:00.07 | DocScrutinizer | that's probably also libvte |
| 01:00.11 | DocScrutinizer | not bash |
| 01:01.01 | DocScrutinizer | I've seen similar oddities with xterm and bash on SHR & FR |
| 01:01.24 | mikki-kun | libvte? |
| 01:01.33 | mikki-kun | shr and fr is? :) |
| 01:01.44 | derf | mikki-kun: You have to surround the escape codes with \[ \] or the spacing gets screwed up. |
| 01:01.50 | mikki-kun | switching if colors is makeing the line work |
| 01:01.51 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@adsl-93-55-203.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:01.51 | DocScrutinizer | FreeRunner, Openmoko phone |
| 01:02.06 | mikki-kun | derf: i'll try :) |
| 01:02.37 | timeless | ieatlint: actually, isn't community update coming along? that's something better than 1.3 |
| 01:02.43 | budfive | derf: confirmed. that fixes it |
| 01:03.02 | mikki-kun | derf: so like this? "\t\[ \]\e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h\[ \]\e[34m>\[ \]\e[0m" |
| 01:03.13 | pupnik | "This video contains content from Al Jazeera. It is not available in your country. " |
| 01:03.21 | pupnik | what the fuck is wrong with Germany?? |
| 01:03.25 | timeless | heh |
| 01:03.36 | timeless | pupnik: possibly wwii consequences |
| 01:03.44 | nox- | pupnik, o_O |
| 01:04.13 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@111.155.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 01:04.38 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvk25tHonbk << can you see this? (al jazeera) |
| 01:04.42 | nox- | this still exists http://www.youtube.com/user/aljazeeraenglish |
| 01:04.53 | nox- | uh no |
| 01:05.01 | nox- | silly stuff... |
| 01:05.02 | ieatlint | timeless: not going to solve any of my big criticisms, or improve the hardware performance. i've been waiting for the n900's successor. i read friday's release to say that it may never happen, or at the very least, won't happen anytime soon |
| 01:05.24 | ieatlint | my n900 is 15months old, and nothing has even been announced to replace it |
| 01:05.24 | timeless | ieatlint: actually, i think you misread the release |
| 01:05.27 | timeless | lemme look more carefully |
| 01:05.28 | ieatlint | not waiting around any longer |
| 01:05.51 | pupnik | nox-: yes but the content is blocked here - |
| 01:05.54 | timeless | > Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year. |
| 01:05.56 | ieatlint | no matter the wording, it doesn't announce any specific phone or give a release time other than "this year" |
| 01:05.57 | SpeedEvil | passes timeless /dev/urandom. |
| 01:05.58 | javispedro | waits for tracker to "deindex" 7000 pictures |
| 01:06.05 | timeless | ieatlint: "this year" should be 2011 |
| 01:06.06 | *** join/#maemo meeGo_ (~yaaic@cpc3-cmbg14-0-0-cust113.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 01:06.23 | ieatlint | yes, but there's a good 10 months left of it |
| 01:06.28 | pupnik | all al jazeera youtubes seem to be censored in germany |
| 01:06.44 | SpeedEvil | I'm personally happy for hardware to be at the end of the year. |
| 01:06.53 | SpeedEvil | As I have a device in good condition. |
| 01:06.56 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 01:07.06 | javispedro | thinks it'll probably be released by the end of the year |
| 01:07.17 | nox- | pupnik, wtf |
| 01:07.23 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-173-53-37-97.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:07.25 | mikki-kun | dashavoo: ahhhh, i got it and thanks a lot for that \o/ |
| 01:07.28 | ieatlint | my device is in good condition, but the warranty is gone, the device underpowered versus competitors, and the maps are a joke |
| 01:07.29 | nox- | pupnik, this still runs from here: http://www.youtube.com/user/aljazeeraenglish |
| 01:07.51 | mikki-kun | anybody who wants to try it out: PS1="\t\[ \]\[\e[34m\][-\[\e[32m\]\u\[\e[34m\]-\[\e[0m\]\h\[ \]\[\e[34m\]>\[ \]\[\e[0m\]" |
| 01:07.55 | nox- | just not the videos linked from it... |
| 01:08.21 | trumee__ | is trying out nitdroid |
| 01:08.48 | trumee__ | maybe will have to move to android someday |
| 01:09.16 | trumee__ | irc client on android is rubbish |
| 01:09.23 | trumee__ | xchat is much better |
| 01:09.27 | javispedro | android itself is rubbish =) |
| 01:09.50 | mikki-kun | trumee__: why not use ssh and screen for linux-based clients? |
| 01:10.00 | pupnik | nox-: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdnp3qvMFwU that one works |
| 01:10.20 | trumee__ | i use znc on my desktop and connect to it using xchat |
| 01:10.30 | nox- | pupnik, wtf is wrong with youtube... |
| 01:10.45 | *** join/#maemo Tukanfan (~troelsmf@95.154.30.120) |
| 01:10.58 | trumee__ | mikki-kun, no idea how to do nick completion on android |
| 01:12.38 | mikki-kun | no tab button? |
| 01:13.00 | SpeedEvil | Get a galaxy tab. |
| 01:13.07 | SpeedEvil | That must have a ta button. |
| 01:13.18 | trumee__ | mikki-kun, cant find it |
| 01:13.33 | DrGrov | Give me a list of 3 phones I should consider to use after I bash in the N8 with a sledgehammer |
| 01:13.41 | timeless | yeah, i couldn't get the irc client for android to do anything useful |
| 01:13.44 | trumee__ | i was hoping to test swype, but android market doesnt list it |
| 01:14.03 | timeless | DrGrov: what did you have before the n8 |
| 01:14.09 | timeless | and why in the world did you buy the n8? |
| 01:14.35 | jonwil | wishes he could figure out why his cell broadcast SMS test code was broken |
| 01:14.45 | DrGrov | timeless: I bought the N8 for the camera and multimedia stuff. |
| 01:14.59 | jonwil | wishes he had a way to do a low level packet capture of the cell broadcast SMS packet being sent from the cell modem back to the AP side |
| 01:15.00 | DrGrov | timeless: I had a N900, then a Samsung Galaxy 3 and then the N8. |
| 01:15.13 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 01:15.20 | mikki-kun | jonwil: maybe setup an own cell tower? |
| 01:15.39 | timeless | DrGrov: you require 12mpix ? |
| 01:16.51 | jonwil | the cell broadcast SMS messages are being recieved |
| 01:16.53 | DrGrov | timeless: It has served me well. No, not a new phone. 5 could even be enough. Now I am more into the actual phone. |
| 01:17.14 | DrGrov | timeless: Not so much into the geeky stuff, surely I want geeky stuff but it is not the most important. |
| 01:17.22 | jonwil | what I need to figure out (by dumping the low level packets e.g.) is whether the issues with decoding them come from my test code |
| 01:17.32 | jonwil | or from the lower level code in libsms and libcsd-sms |
| 01:17.32 | timeless | DrGrov: i presume you don't want/need a hardware keyboard |
| 01:17.54 | timeless | you don't require hackable since you got the n8 |
| 01:18.00 | timeless | would just get an iphone4 |
| 01:18.20 | DrGrov | timeless: A hardware keyboard, physical keyboard. That makes things a whole lot easier though. |
| 01:18.42 | DrGrov | timeless: Nah, not an iPhone. Do not want to become such a user. |
| 01:19.12 | DrGrov | timeless: Other suggestions? |
| 01:19.32 | jonwil | If I wasnt a N900 user (and didnt care about hackable) I would choose the HTC Desire Z or Motorola Milestone |
| 01:19.43 | timeless | i haven't heard good things about the milestone |
| 01:19.54 | mavhc | there's hackable and there's hackable |
| 01:19.57 | jonwil | if I didn't care about physical keyboard, one of the Galaxy S family would be my choice |
| 01:20.03 | DrGrov | timeless: Would you suggest a HTC Legend or a HTC Desire HD? |
| 01:20.04 | trumee__ | facebook app on android is nice |
| 01:20.11 | mavhc | I have a milestone |
| 01:20.15 | timeless | trumee__: ooh, i should try that! |
| 01:20.20 | timeless | wonders where the nitdroid n900 is |
| 01:20.26 | DrGrov | trumee__: Yes, that is nice. My soon-to-be-wife got the Galaxy S. |
| 01:20.37 | jonwil | If you dont care about physical keyboard, the Galaxy S family are the best Android handsets out there |
| 01:20.53 | *** join/#maemo dubzii_afk (1501gruppo@ns2.r00t.la) |
| 01:21.06 | DrGrov | jonwil: I am seriously getting upset again. Depressed also. |
| 01:21.19 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.126.154.167) |
| 01:21.28 | jonwil | why are you depressed |
| 01:21.30 | jonwil | ? |
| 01:21.33 | DrGrov | I mean that again I am into my old habits of changing phone like it is my underwear. |
| 01:21.47 | trumee__ | timeless, couldnt get youtube/flash to work though |
| 01:22.02 | trumee__ | timeless, on nitdroid 0.0.9 |
| 01:22.13 | timeless | oh, is there a way to upgrade nitdroid? |
| 01:22.21 | timeless | does it auto offer/update? |
| 01:22.28 | DrGrov | jonwil: That is why I am getting depressed. |
| 01:22.42 | DrGrov | jonwil: Since I know that once I start changing phones I will not stop... :/ |
| 01:22.44 | trumee__ | timeless, i dont think so. but i am not an expert |
| 01:23.59 | trumee__ | closing apps on android is so unintuitive. |
| 01:24.34 | jonwil | hmmm, might post to the dev mailing list asking if anyone knows how to dump low level cellmo packets |
| 01:24.39 | pupnik | minimize app, then start task killer, then kill app |
| 01:24.45 | mavhc | don't close them then |
| 01:24.58 | DrGrov | jonwil: You think I would benefit from changing back to the Galaxy 3 for the time being so I can get used to Android again before eventually buying something else? |
| 01:25.07 | nox- | pupnik, wtf really? |
| 01:25.16 | jonwil | What was wrong with your N900? |
| 01:25.30 | EdLin | DrGrov: I'd suggest an HTC HD2 if you want hackable non-n900 phone, it runs Android very well, and can also run Meego and WM6.5, WP7, and Ubuntu, among other things in emulation. |
| 01:25.37 | mikki-kun | i have seen quite a few devices so far and the G2 and Nexus 1 look nice, as does Moto Defy (is a bit sturdy, at least from the looks) |
| 01:25.42 | mavhc | the point is you don't have to close apps |
| 01:26.20 | DrGrov | EdLin: What are the prices on the HTC HD2 at the momen? |
| 01:26.20 | pupnik | nox-: well yes |
| 01:26.21 | jonwil | yeah the HTC HD2 seems to be the "little phone that could" |
| 01:26.32 | pupnik | but you shouldn't need to do that |
| 01:26.37 | EdLin | DrGrov: free on contract refurbished, t-mobile is retiring it. |
| 01:26.42 | budfive | anybody played with the webos devices? pre looked pretty interesting a while back |
| 01:26.59 | mikki-kun | jonwil: well, i wish you the best of luck with hacking and have fun while doing so. i hope and am pretty sure you will be successful... maybe try it once while on a booze ^^ |
| 01:27.00 | DrGrov | EdLin: Is it SIM unlocked? |
| 01:27.01 | nox- | pupnik, and that when most)?) apps are java too? how much ram do androids usually have? :) |
| 01:27.04 | EdLin | DrGrov: if you want it without a contract, you can get it for a little over $200 on ebay. |
| 01:27.13 | mavhc | moving from maemo to webos would just be being awkward |
| 01:27.14 | jonwil | I dont drink alcohol :) |
| 01:27.18 | DrGrov | EdLin: Ok, that is a reasonable price at least :) |
| 01:27.25 | EdLin | DrGrov: tmobile us will give you the unlock code after 40 days. |
| 01:27.36 | DrGrov | What is the easiest way to get music on the Galaxy 3? Via memory card perhaps? |
| 01:27.37 | jonwil | I considered webos when I was shoping for my new phone but then HP bought Palm and I have blacklisted HP |
| 01:27.38 | pupnik | webos devices don't have landscape keyboard |
| 01:27.39 | EdLin | if you ask for it |
| 01:27.51 | jonwil | so I rejected webos |
| 01:27.58 | pupnik | what's bad about hp jonwil ? |
| 01:28.10 | DrGrov | EdLin: Will it work in Europe as a 3G phone with HSPA/HSDPA capacity? |
| 01:28.12 | mavhc | their sauce |
| 01:28.25 | EdLin | DrGrov: no, for that you'll need to get a european hd2. |
| 01:28.31 | trumee | Nitdroid rebooted my device!. Back in maemo and lovely xchat |
| 01:28.37 | mikki-kun | jonwil: maybe it would help once ^^ not saying it will, it might just give you an inspiration :) (i for one drink very rarely as well, maybe once every 6 months, if i find the time) |
| 01:28.44 | DrGrov | How can I know which battery is for the Galaxy 3? I have 2 Samsung batteries which look scarely similar |
| 01:29.03 | jonwil | I get enough inspiration from the large quantities of Coca-Cola I consume :) |
| 01:29.07 | mikki-kun | DrGrov: no ID infos on them? |
| 01:29.25 | mikki-kun | jonwil: if you think so :) maybe switching to pepsi would help already XD |
| 01:29.28 | DrGrov | mikki-kun: Ah yes, stupid me :) Perhaps too focused on disappointment :) |
| 01:29.34 | *** join/#maemo shyko (~shyko@unaffiliated/shyko) |
| 01:29.39 | jonwil | coke > pepsi |
| 01:29.40 | EdLin | DrGrov: American 3g phones won't work in general on european 3g networks, except the n8 which is pentaband. |
| 01:29.41 | jonwil | :P |
| 01:29.54 | mikki-kun | DrGrov: no problem ^^ |
| 01:29.57 | DrGrov | I think now it is time to really shut down the N8 and leave it in the shelf and get down and dirty with the Galaxy 3 |
| 01:29.58 | jonwil | I have spent quite a few nights since getting my N900 staying up until early in the AM drinking cola and trying to reverse engineer stuff |
| 01:30.34 | DocScrutinizer | EdLin: citation needed |
| 01:30.35 | DrGrov | Memory card is the easiest way to get music onto the Galaxy 3? |
| 01:30.45 | jonwil | Don't drink Pepsi unless I have no other choice (i.e. when I am at KFC) |
| 01:31.01 | mikki-kun | jonwil: i know what you mean with either stuff for studies to do or browsing infos for how to hack my gentoo installs even nicer :) |
| 01:31.02 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer: T-Mobile uses AWS, AT&T mostly uses non-EU bands also. |
| 01:31.33 | DocScrutinizer | so that's no statement about phones, no? |
| 01:31.51 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer: phones don't usually support 3 different 3g schemes. |
| 01:32.01 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
| 01:32.02 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer: it would make the radio too expensive. |
| 01:32.13 | jonwil | is glad he is switching to a new carrier |
| 01:32.21 | *** join/#maemo zerojay (~jay@Maemo/community/contributor/zerojay) |
| 01:32.24 | jonwil | The old carrier is building a UMTS850 network |
| 01:32.27 | mikki-kun | jonwil: which one you switched to? |
| 01:32.29 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer: nokia did make a radio that supports all of them though, and put it in the n8. |
| 01:32.45 | jonwil | well I switched from Vodafone Australia to TPG Mobile (who are a reseller of Optus Australia) |
| 01:33.09 | jonwil | just waiting for my new SIM to be activated |
| 01:33.10 | mikki-kun | did anybody hear, nokia "sub-CEO" of usa got a kick and a Microsoft guy took over... |
| 01:33.16 | jonwil | and my number to be ported over |
| 01:33.30 | jonwil | then I will get an email and I will know to switch SIMs |
| 01:33.33 | mikki-kun | DrGrov: you mean this one? http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i5800_galaxy_3-3395.php |
| 01:33.34 | DrGrov | Damn this |
| 01:33.39 | EdLin | mikki-kun: that's the third former microsoft employee to take an executive position since elop took over, it's a coup, not a partnership. |
| 01:34.02 | DrGrov | mikki-kun: Yes, that one |
| 01:34.33 | mikki-kun | EdLin: you know what my mind thinks: ":| let's go on a hunt for microsoft guys" |
| 01:34.43 | EdLin | lol |
| 01:34.46 | mikki-kun | DrGrov: the screen-size seems rather small |
| 01:34.50 | *** join/#maemo epmf (~elliot@iota.hadesian.co.uk) |
| 01:34.53 | EdLin | DrGrov: 400x240?! |
| 01:35.02 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 01:35.19 | mikki-kun | EdLin: hey, i am a Finn and am highly offended by what is happening to Nokia -.- |
| 01:35.21 | EdLin | DrGrov: and tft from samsung? That's not exactly a high-end android phone. |
| 01:35.22 | DrGrov | mikki-kun: I have it already actually. It is a phone I had as my 2nd phone |
| 01:35.41 | DrGrov | EdLin: Read my last writing and you will understand |
| 01:35.54 | EdLin | and you don't want a low-end android phone, trust me on this, I had a cliq xt. |
| 01:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | EdLin: that all sounds correct, but is no facts. Obviously N900 can work with some US 3G networks. And afaik a lot of those supporting all US 3G bands at least support some rest-of-world bands as well, so will work with some e.g European carriers, just like the european phones work with some US carriers |
| 01:36.15 | DrGrov | EdLin: I actually love the phone, not getting too used with it last time though. |
| 01:36.16 | *** join/#maemo Roksteady (~mikaelf@c83-253-20-59.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 01:36.16 | *** join/#maemo Roksteady (~mikaelf@pdpc/supporter/active/roksteady) |
| 01:36.23 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer: none support all US 3g bands.... |
| 01:36.23 | jonwil | The good news is that I found a few things out about the N900 cellmo stuff. Firstly I found out that the the SMS part of the N900 modem is using SMS isi interface version 5.1 (which is present in the documentation I have from www.wirelessmodemapi.com) |
| 01:36.26 | EdLin | except the n8. |
| 01:36.48 | DrGrov | So how do I know which battery should go with the Galaxy 3? I have 2 different damn small Samsung batteries in front of me |
| 01:36.52 | *** join/#maemo otwieracz (~gonet9@v6.gen2.org) |
| 01:36.56 | otwieracz | hello. |
| 01:36.57 | jonwil | Secondly I found out that the location stuff is using an ISI interface version NOT in the docs I have |
| 01:36.59 | EdLin | anyhow, the question was, does the American T-Mobile HD2 support european 3g? The answer to that is no. |
| 01:37.13 | EdLin | you have to get a European HD2. |
| 01:37.16 | otwieracz | Is available to start maemo without /usr? |
| 01:37.27 | DocScrutinizer | DrGrov: I'd guess when it fits, it should work |
| 01:37.50 | DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Ok, it fits actually and says 1500mAh |
| 01:38.05 | DocScrutinizer | I mean that'd be utterly silly of Samsung to build two mechanically identical noncompatible batteries |
| 01:38.12 | mikki-kun | does here anybody have a sports-band for his n900? |
| 01:38.26 | DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: The other battery is for my Samsung S5600 |
| 01:38.30 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer: there's more to tmobile US's AWS scheme than the bands, by the way, they use the bands differently than in the EU. |
| 01:38.31 | DrGrov | Not sure it is the same though |
| 01:39.26 | otwieracz | I'm trying to move my n810 /usr to mmcblk0p1 (internal mmc), but I want to know what to do if I make a mistake. |
| 01:39.26 | DrGrov | And I gotta find the damn charger also from somewhere :D |
| 01:39.26 | DrGrov | LOL |
| 01:39.46 | otwieracz | Is there any rescue console for maemo? |
| 01:40.04 | otwieracz | Eg. textmode, or something. |
| 01:40.14 | DocScrutinizer | EdLin: I just don't care. If I want to know if a phone works in EU, then I don't ask which carriers it accepts in US, I rather simply look at the device's specs |
| 01:40.41 | mikki-kun | otwieracz: uhhh, wait... /usr from your n810 to the n900? |
| 01:40.47 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer: if you don't care, why did you interfere in my answering a question someone else was asking? ;-) |
| 01:41.30 | DocScrutinizer | EdLin: if you can't read a short answer of me, why do you interfere with my mood? |
| 01:41.41 | otwieracz | mikki-kun: no, no |
| 01:42.10 | otwieracz | I need more space at / and I want to move /usr to mmcblk0p1. |
| 01:42.38 | mikki-kun | on the n810 or n900? for the n900 i can say from what i read it will render your device unbootable |
| 01:42.38 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: see |
| 01:42.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 01:42.43 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and ... |
| 01:42.51 | otwieracz | n810 |
| 01:43.18 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: there are things in /usr that MUST be in / instead, Nokia messed it up |
| 01:43.38 | luke-jr | http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2011/feb11/02-11partnership.mspx |
| 01:43.41 | luke-jr | Qt doomed? |
| 01:43.46 | DocScrutinizer | duh N810 |
| 01:43.51 | DocScrutinizer | probably even worse |
| 01:44.00 | EdLin | luke-jr: Nokia is doomed too, look at all of the other mobile partnerships Microsoft made. |
| 01:44.12 | luke-jr | XD |
| 01:44.15 | otwieracz | Listen - I want to mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 at /usr |
| 01:44.22 | otwieracz | from fstab. |
| 01:44.31 | luke-jr | otwieracz: good luck. |
| 01:44.39 | luke-jr | otwieracz: unless you're making your own OS⦠|
| 01:44.45 | otwieracz | It makes difference? |
| 01:45.21 | otwieracz | Probably it wouldn't there's no difference for apps - it's /usr anyway. |
| 01:45.43 | luke-jr | otwieracz: Maemo won't boot if /usr isn't in the main rootfs |
| 01:45.49 | *** join/#maemo mpoirier (~quassel@S0106002369de4dac.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 01:46.16 | otwieracz | So stupid. |
| 01:46.30 | otwieracz | Any good reason for this? |
| 01:46.40 | luke-jr | no reason would be a good reason by definition |
| 01:46.59 | otwieracz | And any other ideas how to get more space at /? |
| 01:47.08 | EdLin | otwieracz: rm -rf / |
| 01:47.36 | otwieracz | /dev/mtdblock4 249.5M 216.4M 33.1M 87% / |
| 01:47.40 | mikki-kun | EdLin: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0p0 :) |
| 01:47.57 | otwieracz | 33mb, quite a few... |
| 01:48.02 | *** join/#maemo Polda-merto-jaya (~dexter666@125.165.186.80) |
| 01:48.10 | EdLin | mikki-kun: I prefer /dev/random, it makes the results more interesting |
| 01:48.15 | mikki-kun | for anyone trying this what i wrote... it will basically kill your device |
| 01:48.29 | EdLin | yeah, don't try this at home kids |
| 01:48.29 | mikki-kun | EdLin: that will take ages... urandom is there a bit faster... |
| 01:49.03 | mikki-kun | EdLin: and random needs input from you, so move your mouse XD |
| 01:49.04 | jonwil | wishes he could find a solitare game for his N900 |
| 01:49.18 | timeless | jonwil: there is one |
| 01:49.18 | otwieracz | random won't work fine. |
| 01:49.25 | jonwil | where? |
| 01:49.31 | jonwil | Cant find anything in HAM |
| 01:49.35 | otwieracz | it's true random from input devices. |
| 01:49.37 | jonwil | under "games" |
| 01:49.42 | otwieracz | urandom have entropy. |
| 01:50.18 | timeless | jonwil: hrm, good question. i've seen it |
| 01:50.23 | mikki-kun | otwieracz: random takes your input as it's entropy pool.... if you make no input the pool is drained and no further input possible :) |
| 01:50.24 | timeless | wonders why downloads can't find it |
| 01:51.29 | otwieracz | mikki-kun: as I tell. |
| 01:51.43 | jonwil | maybe the solitare thing is only in -testing or -devel |
| 01:51.46 | jonwil | which I dont have enabled |
| 01:51.51 | otwieracz | whatever, how to make more free space? |
| 01:52.21 | *** join/#maemo robink (~robink@fatcat.creosotehill.org) |
| 01:52.59 | budfive | anybody here using tmobile US's contractless $10/mo unlimited data service? |
| 01:53.27 | rm_you | budfive: i believe johnx is? |
| 01:53.47 | rm_you | i *was* on the plan but then when i got my own account they figured out i had a smartphone and switched me |
| 01:53.56 | budfive | rm_you: ok |
| 01:54.16 | budfive | rm_you: I was using that just fine, but they downgraded me to 200mb one fine day without telling me |
| 01:54.49 | luke-jr | budfive: what? |
| 01:54.58 | luke-jr | where do yuo see this service? |
| 01:54.58 | DocScrutinizer | (<otwieracz> Any good reason for this?) <DocScrutinizer> otwieracz: there are things in /usr that MUST be in / instead, Nokia messed it up --- what of this has been unclear? |
| 01:55.05 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Where in the world are you? |
| 01:55.13 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Oh - UK - I forgot |
| 01:55.15 | jonwil | Australia |
| 01:55.16 | budfive | rm_you: they aren't saying anything about me using a smartphone, but are still refusing t o undo whatever they did. wondering if somebody knows something |
| 01:55.23 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Oh - somewhat out. |
| 01:55.36 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.161.195) |
| 01:55.42 | budfive | luke-jr: up until very recently, tmobile's contractless service had a $10/mo unlimited data option for dumb phones |
| 01:55.51 | rm_you | budfive: i think i may have heard something a while back about them planning to cap their data service somehow |
| 01:55.54 | luke-jr | oh, that's only with a voice plan though |
| 01:55.58 | rm_you | but assumed there would be warning |
| 01:56.27 | otwieracz | DocScrutinizer: it will be in / |
| 01:56.51 | luke-jr | struggles to maintain his effectively 10-USD-every-3-months-for-unlimited-data plan |
| 01:56.56 | DocScrutinizer | err, you said you want to move it? |
| 01:57.04 | budfive | rm_you: I'm not completely sure. Really seems like somebody screwed up. I talked to the rep, who spent 20 minutes figuring out that whatever happened shouldn't have happened, but couldn't undo it |
| 01:57.12 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: please, stop playing stupid |
| 01:57.13 | jonwil | I like Australian mobile plans, they are so sane compared to what you get in say, the USA |
| 01:57.22 | otwieracz | There will be /usr with the same files like previous. |
| 01:57.35 | luke-jr | budfive: yeah, I hate how mistakes can't be undone at TMo |
| 01:57.46 | luke-jr | they screwed up my last SIM card, so I had to pay for a replacement |
| 01:57.52 | luke-jr | they wouldn't even waive the cost of the new one |
| 01:57.57 | budfive | luke-jr: seemed like the 20 minutes was wasted, since he couldn't do anything anyway |
| 01:58.08 | budfive | luke-jr: what service are you using? |
| 01:58.14 | otwieracz | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:58.18 | DocScrutinizer | there will be NOT, unless I misunderstood you want to move and mount it, which obviously means there's a state before mounting where it's not in / |
| 01:58.50 | DocScrutinizer | and init scripts need things from /usr prior to you getting to moint it |
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| 02:00.00 | otwieracz | before rootfs is mounted? |
| 02:00.07 | otwieracz | (so before fstab) |
| 02:00.24 | jonwil | BINGO |
| 02:00.34 | jonwil | I found the ISI headers I wanted in the QT SDK download |
| 02:01.29 | otwieracz | everything needed for that early stage isn't in initfs? |
| 02:01.55 | luke-jr | budfive: T-Mobile |
| 02:02.23 | budfive | luke-jr: what's your $10/3months scheme? |
| 02:03.08 | luke-jr | budfive: Sidekick plan. Allowed to have the daily fee expire with 1 minute remaining, then refilled before the 1 minute expires. |
| 02:03.36 | luke-jr | without the daily fee, texting and voice are prohibited, but not data |
| 02:03.54 | budfive | luke-jr: hmmm. is that somethng that's long grandfathered? |
| 02:04.01 | luke-jr | yeah, pretty much |
| 02:04.09 | luke-jr | it's like $1/day + 15 cents/min |
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| 02:04.35 | otwieracz | hmm |
| 02:05.07 | otwieracz | linuxrc looks quite interactive - boot options (mmc, usb), how to use it? |
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| 02:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: no idea. I first didn't realize you were asking about diablo/N810. N900 has no initrd. I'd nevertheless guess you will run into problems on N810 as well |
| 02:05.49 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: serial console I guess |
| 02:05.58 | DocScrutinizer | (interactive) |
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| 02:06.24 | otwieracz | uhm... |
| 02:07.15 | DocScrutinizer | also NB that N900 init doesn't care about fstab, except for creating it fresh on every boot |
| 02:07.35 | otwieracz | I wosh that there is no some hotkey and *poof*, I see console, not nokia logo. |
| 02:07.41 | otwieracz | wish* |
| 02:08.21 | DocScrutinizer | alas that's not how it works. You need a fixture jig and a serial terminal |
| 02:08.50 | DocScrutinizer | to contact the testpoints under battery (on N810 I think they are beneath battery) |
| 02:09.37 | nox- | bbl |
| 02:09.40 | otwieracz | I saw. |
| 02:10.01 | DocScrutinizer | s/beneath/aside/ |
| 02:11.05 | DocScrutinizer | nah, under battery as well |
| 02:11.08 | otwieracz | Goodnight. |
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| 03:09.03 | GeneralAntilles | Did Texrat coin Elopocalypse |
| 03:09.58 | wmarone | don't know, it could have come from anywhere |
| 03:11.19 | SpeedEvil | Elopalypse scans better. |
| 03:11.32 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil: yeah, it does. |
| 03:11.56 | GeneralAntilles | Catching up on the news is giving me indigestion. |
| 03:11.59 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody cheer me up. |
| 03:12.15 | SpeedEvil | passes GeneralAntilles the happy gas. |
| 03:17.40 | pupnik | hahahh |
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| 03:17.50 | GeneralAntilles | Fuck me, I need a day off. |
| 03:18.24 | pupnik | dcc's GeneralAntilles a rosy-cheeked professional gal |
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| 03:49.07 | GeneralAntilles | should stop posting to Talk from work on the N900. |
| 03:49.13 | GeneralAntilles | My coherence goes out the window. |
| 03:56.39 | zerojay | Shorten that. |
| 03:56.45 | zerojay | Stop Talk. |
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| 04:07.11 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay: surprisingly it's better this weekend than it has been in months. |
| 04:07.17 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay: also: Howdy! |
| 04:07.19 | GeneralAntilles | How's kicks? |
| 04:07.57 | zerojay | Not too bad. I haven't been threatening to jump off the balcony like poor Texrat seems close to doing. Heh. |
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| 04:10.11 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, he does get wrapped up emotionally in this shit. |
| 04:10.30 | GeneralAntilles | I should talk, though, I've been on the very edge of throttling somebody at work the past two days. |
| 04:11.25 | zerojay | lol |
| 04:11.47 | GeneralAntilles | MWKN tomorrow is going to be very cathartic, I think. |
| 04:11.58 | zerojay | I don't really have the anger and emotion about it because I blasted all of it out back when the Maemo -> MeeGo switch happened. |
| 04:12.02 | GeneralAntilles | Hopefully Jaffa will be able to trim some of the more vitriolic stuff. :D |
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| 04:12.17 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, bad enough the bastards put us through THAT mess. |
| 04:12.29 | GeneralAntilles | But then to lead us around like a bunch of idiots for 12 months. |
| 04:12.36 | Ken-Young | zerojay, Compared the this week, the maemo abandonment was nothing, I think. |
| 04:13.04 | zerojay | Ken-Young: When that happened, I knew THIS would happen, it was just a matter of time. |
| 04:13.09 | GeneralAntilles | At least there were positive possibilities with MeeGo. |
| 04:13.21 | Ken-Young | zerojay, I was more gullible, I guess. |
| 04:13.28 | GeneralAntilles | I can't believe I didn't see it coming. |
| 04:13.34 | GeneralAntilles | Self delusion, I guess. |
| 04:13.48 | Ken-Young | Right up until Friday morning I was a believer. |
| 04:13.51 | zerojay | Let's see... having the basic message be "we don't want community" from the start was great. |
| 04:14.05 | zerojay | Including hiring a community manager that did nothing but push people away. That was pretty cool. |
| 04:14.18 | timeless | GeneralAntilles: at least they led you guys around |
| 04:14.33 | timeless | one of the things noted by he new ceo is an absolute lack of leadership |
| 04:14.58 | GeneralAntilles | timeless: I'm feeling particularly bad about those people whose livelihoods are going to be screwed with by this. |
| 04:15.07 | timeless | GeneralAntilles: i don't |
| 04:15.08 | Ken-Young | There's leadership - leadership from Redmond. |
| 04:15.09 | zerojay | Honestly, it's not like Nokia had a whole ton of choice here if they wanted to even come close to being in the race, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it. |
| 04:15.12 | timeless | finland gets what it deserves |
| 04:15.20 | timeless | stick all your eggs in one basket |
| 04:15.24 | GeneralAntilles | timeless: hehe, well, they're not all Finns. |
| 04:15.28 | timeless | and some day you're get a mess |
| 04:15.45 | timeless | s/re/ll/ |
| 04:15.50 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay: well, I think they had an opportunity to make something happen with MeeGo last year. |
| 04:15.57 | GeneralAntilles | But I don't know why they squandered that away. |
| 04:16.12 | timeless | GeneralAntilles: management insisted on changing directions a number of times |
| 04:16.23 | timeless | and generally there was no punishment for doing this |
| 04:16.29 | timeless | just 6month setbacks |
| 04:16.35 | zerojay | The only way I felt that there was going to be any sort of chance of anything really happening was if they stayed on Maemo and continued on with it. |
| 04:16.42 | zerojay | Instead, they threw it all out and started over. |
| 04:16.53 | pupnik | i felt that way too zerojay |
| 04:16.57 | timeless | zerojay: power struggles work that way |
| 04:17.00 | timeless | we lost ours |
| 04:17.06 | timeless | my team lost more than most |
| 04:17.18 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay: Maemo had not long term viability. |
| 04:17.24 | zerojay | Then they didn't have anything on the high-end phones.. so they pushed Maemo/MeeGo out into the limelight WAY before it was ready. |
| 04:17.34 | GeneralAntilles | timeless: hopefully the dinosaurs will die off sooner rather than later. |
| 04:17.46 | timeless | GeneralAntilles: i was initially worried |
| 04:17.50 | GeneralAntilles | A multi-vendor platform is the only answer to Android. |
| 04:17.56 | zerojay | But I always felt that MeeGo being #1 for them was always a stop-gap measure to keep people happy until they had something else. |
| 04:18.05 | timeless | the announcement only showed a couple of casualties |
| 04:18.08 | Ken-Young | zerojay, Well, if they hadn't have pushed it out then, we'd probably have no maemo devices at all. |
| 04:18.13 | zerojay | I just never guessed it would have been "use another company's OS", honestly. |
| 04:18.13 | timeless | but i've heard of a couple since the announcement |
| 04:18.26 | zerojay | Ken-Young: We already had a Maemo device. |
| 04:18.32 | timeless | zerojay: the os isn't so important |
| 04:18.38 | timeless | it's the ecosystem, which includes a store and apps |
| 04:18.41 | pupnik | you guys are the best community though ... <sniff> |
| 04:18.45 | timeless | remember nokia's store was....Ovi |
| 04:18.45 | Ken-Young | zerojay, But that one wasn't really ready either. |
| 04:19.04 | zerojay | They weren't pushing it as the company savior at the time. :) |
| 04:19.18 | timeless | MS's marketplace solves the 'ovi' problem |
| 04:19.36 | pupnik | i thought apt-get solved the 'ovi problem' |
| 04:19.44 | timeless | as for apps, i don't think Ovi managed to attract many apps |
| 04:19.51 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay: yeah, I couldn't have pictured that from Nokia. |
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| 04:19.54 | GeneralAntilles | Can't really picture it still. |
| 04:19.57 | timeless | whereas MS probably has managed more |
| 04:20.03 | Ken-Young | So who's most screwed within Nokia - the Symbian guys, the Qt guys, or the Meego guys? |
| 04:20.14 | timeless | Ken-Young: the symbian guys have been dead for years |
| 04:20.18 | GeneralAntilles | Probably Symbian most immediately. |
| 04:20.21 | timeless | and if they didn't know that, they deserve what they got |
| 04:20.23 | pupnik | for crapps we could get android ones |
| 04:20.23 | GeneralAntilles | But, yeah, zombies can only be so screwed. |
| 04:20.27 | rm_you | SYmbian developers are dead on the inside? :P |
| 04:20.41 | zerojay | The Symbian guys couldn't possibly be screwed. They knew it was dead long ago. How they still had 1500 people on it is... just... I can't even think of how that happened. |
| 04:20.46 | rm_you | now pictures a room of zombies drooling on keyboards in front of monitors with the symbian logo |
| 04:20.59 | timeless | The Qt v. MeeGo question is interesting |
| 04:22.14 | GeneralAntilles | Qt seems like it has plenty of opportunities outside Nokia. |
| 04:22.26 | GeneralAntilles | I really wonder what's going to happen to that division, though. |
| 04:22.34 | GeneralAntilles | Given it's no longer prominent in Nokia's future strategy. |
| 04:22.39 | GeneralAntilles | sighs. |
| 04:22.42 | GeneralAntilles | I hate Stephen Elop. |
| 04:22.59 | zerojay | KDE's potentially the most screwed victim in all of this, lol. |
| 04:23.13 | GeneralAntilles | Your moment of zen for the weekend: http://bit.ly/gRZ7DJ |
| 04:23.22 | Ken-Young | zerojay, Why is that? |
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| 04:23.37 | zerojay | Ken-Young: They rely on QT. |
| 04:24.02 | timeless | zerojay: not really |
| 04:24.07 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: I think that image has been shooped. No huge sweat stains under Ballmer's arms. :/ |
| 04:24.09 | timeless | Qt is open source |
| 04:24.19 | zerojay | Yeah, I'm aware. :) |
| 04:24.50 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay: hehe. |
| 04:24.57 | luke-jr | 1 year till BSD licensed Qt? |
| 04:25.13 | GeneralAntilles | shudders at the thought of using Android. |
| 04:25.34 | zerojay | As an end-user, I like it. |
| 04:26.13 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: join me in putting Gentoo on whatever devices suit me? XD |
| 04:26.20 | luke-jr | maybe GTA04? |
| 04:26.22 | zerojay | When my phone got bricked because my provider sent out a firmware update with a bootloader filled with nothing but FFFFFFF.. I had a hard time going back to using the N900, honestly. |
| 04:26.52 | GeneralAntilles | I've used Android |
| 04:26.56 | GeneralAntilles | I hated every minute of it. |
| 04:27.39 | GeneralAntilles | Google's evil and Android is the black hole of open source. |
| 04:27.58 | zerojay | The black hole of open source? How do you figure? |
| 04:28.07 | GeneralAntilles | Co-opting a whole generation of developers to sink time into an "open source" project that doesn't resemble anything vaguely Open Source |
| 04:28.18 | GeneralAntilles | When you contribute to Android, you only contribute to Android. |
| 04:28.30 | GeneralAntilles | All you're doing is enabling Google's advertising machine. |
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| 04:29.12 | timeless | GeneralAntilles: sounds like fun |
| 04:31.39 | GeneralAntilles | There's far too much optimism coming out of people making money off MeeGo for me to take it seriously. |
| 04:31.54 | GeneralAntilles | Sounds just the same as it did last February. |
| 04:31.59 | GeneralAntilles | So far that's gotten us exactly nowhere. |
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| 04:32.59 | zerojay | Maybe that's part of the lure of Android. No longer feeling like you are spinning your wheels. I can tell you one thing, I had no idea what to do with myself when I walked into a cell phone store and actually found accessories for my phone. lol |
| 04:34.34 | zerojay | Same thing with the apps. "Oh, this is what it's like to actually get support from companies, not just Nokia begging them to make something for us." |
| 04:34.35 | wmarone | GeneralAntilles: I'm borrowing the "black hole of open source" label |
| 04:35.10 | zerojay | Android won't ever be as much of a PC in the pocket as Maemo or the N900 was. |
| 04:35.24 | luke-jr | Gentoo! |
| 04:35.57 | zerojay | I think I lost years of my life waiting for stuff in Gentoo to compile, hehe. |
| 04:36.28 | luke-jr | zerojay: you wait for it? |
| 04:36.51 | zerojay | When you compile from stage 1, yes, you sure do. |
| 04:38.08 | Ken-Young | I wonder if Nokia would consider simply providing the binary blobs needed to allow a community port of meego to whatever there highest end WP7 phone is. After all, they might sell a significant number (n900ish volumes) of that phone to consumers who would never consider purchasing it otherwise. |
| 04:40.13 | wmarone | Ken-Young: not a chance, especially not with Microsoft involved |
| 04:40.38 | zerojay | And wmarone would know. |
| 04:40.49 | zerojay | WMArone. <--- :) |
| 04:41.02 | wmarone | listens to his PlaysForSure music |
| 04:41.19 | wmarone | oops, drm server went down |
| 04:41.34 | zerojay | failrone. :/ |
| 04:45.40 | pupnik | can i get a refund from sellers who bundle windows in germany? |
| 04:45.51 | GeneralAntilles | wmarone: that's why Google is so much more evil than Apple. |
| 04:46.08 | GeneralAntilles | Apple doesn't really pretend to be something it's not. You know what you're getting into from the start (unless you're a fool). |
| 04:47.01 | pupnik | i'm happy with how unixy mobile devices are in 2010 :) |
| 04:47.03 | pupnik | 2011 |
| 04:50.30 | wmarone | pupnik: well, they're quite unixy but it's irrelevant if the end user can't take advantage of it should they want to |
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| 04:50.42 | pupnik | yeah |
| 04:51.40 | pupnik | could android be modified to be more gnu/linuxy? |
| 04:52.02 | wmarone | it could, but that's pointless |
| 04:52.09 | wmarone | since doing so would break you away from google |
| 04:52.12 | wmarone | and you'll be stuck |
| 04:53.15 | pupnik | ? |
| 04:53.28 | pupnik | it would suck less... |
| 04:53.48 | pupnik | run X11 on another framebuffer... |
| 04:53.54 | Ken-Young | pupnik, It would suck differently. |
| 04:53.57 | pupnik | heh |
| 04:54.29 | pupnik | woohoo Ron Paul won the CPAC straw poll again |
| 04:54.51 | Ken-Young | pupnik, Those guys are True Believers. |
| 04:55.25 | pupnik | no they dis-believe what government tells them :) |
| 04:56.07 | pupnik | and that usually gives you a head start on figuring out the truth |
| 04:57.46 | pupnik | power and honesty don't go together |
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| 05:00.34 | GAN900 | Hehe |
| 05:05.21 | pupnik | âI think we need to make a distinction between two different kinds of searches â informational and commercial,â he said. âIf you search âcancer,â thatâs an informational search and on those, Google is amazing. But in commercial searches, Googleâs results are really polluted." |
| 05:05.34 | pupnik | yea we noticed.. |
| 05:06.36 | Ken-Young | Why doesn't Google just blacklist sites like eHow for search? |
| 05:06.50 | tank-man | learn to search? |
| 05:06.55 | tank-man | you can use "-ehow" |
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| 05:07.40 | zerojay | Ken-Young: They're supposed to roll out something soon for all that. |
| 05:07.45 | Ken-Young | Most casual searchers won't do that, so they get eHow crap (and other content farms). |
| 05:08.13 | pupnik | Ken-Young: they do punish sites that game the search engine |
| 05:08.36 | Ken-Young | pupnik, Not very successfully, it appears. |
| 05:09.14 | tank-man | compare "how to do everything" and "how to do everything -ehow" |
| 05:09.22 | tank-man | you just need the right search terms |
| 05:10.20 | Ken-Young | So users of Google are supposed to maintain their own lists of crap sites, and disallow them in their search queries? |
| 05:10.51 | zerojay | Google's in the middle of working on something to get rid of the content farms from results. |
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| 05:11.06 | zerojay | Heard it's supposed to be ready soon, but who knows. |
| 05:13.21 | pupnik | according to NYT this stuff is ongoing |
| 05:16.22 | rm_you | yeah i have that problem at work... we are rewriting search forms and we changed them from "pages and pages of text-boxes for each specific attribute related to a thing" and made it more google-like, in that now it's one box that just searches over all the same information as before, but all at the same time. turns out users are too stupid to understand how to search for things that way |
| 05:17.17 | rm_you | they type in "dog" and complain because they get like 10,000,000 results, and the top one isn't "the lifespan of a cocker-spaniel with diabetes", and then complain that our search doesn't work |
| 05:18.24 | rm_you | so frustrating |
| 05:19.15 | EdLin | rm_you: my roommate types in everything to google as a question in a complete sentence. somehow he manages to get search results that make sense doing it. |
| 05:19.44 | rm_you | yeah, i find that works sometimes, not sure how... thinking they just filter like 75% of the search terms that are smaller than four letters :P |
| 05:20.08 | EdLin | they don't filter "and" |
| 05:20.13 | rm_you | or basically, any word that is an article |
| 05:20.48 | EdLin | they used to do that, read on a google blog they no longer filter articles indiscriminately. |
| 05:21.03 | rm_you | well, they DO technically filter "and"... it becomes part of the way they run the query, not technically a word in the search :P |
| 05:21.17 | rm_you | yeah, i remember when it was impossible to search for "the who" :P |
| 05:21.18 | EdLin | yeah, unless you put it in double quotes. |
| 05:23.18 | pupnik | have you seen the 'new?' reading-level parameter you can give in advanced search? |
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| 05:23.42 | pupnik | btw if you need product names with no google hits, i have a couple |
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| 06:50.00 | ketas | how sad... i thought i can buy truly good open phone in future, one that fits perfectly with my needs |
| 06:54.41 | blackthorne | isn't Android supposed to be that? |
| 06:54.56 | blackthorne | oh... you said good phone, sorry. never mind |
| 06:56.09 | ketas | :P |
| 06:57.27 | RobbieThe1st | heh |
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| 06:58.42 | ketas | well the answer seems to be in devices that are able to run several os'es easily... but that's not going to happen either |
| 06:59.12 | blackthorne | ketas: there aren't many mobile devices that are able to run several OS's decently |
| 06:59.24 | blackthorne | well, if there is one, I can't recall |
| 07:00.11 | ketas | because they are locked to one, yes... much more than regular computers |
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| 07:15.43 | jonwil | bah, still cant find anyone who can help me with testing stuff for my Cell Broadcast SMS work :( |
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| 07:35.05 | TheJ | good morningstar |
| 07:35.26 | RST38h | Ahhahaha http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2888/11x021198h73vx.jpg |
| 07:35.52 | RST38h | [Bonus points for sing the original CGA palette] |
| 07:35.58 | RST38h | s/sing/using |
| 07:36.18 | TheJ | :) |
| 07:38.04 | jonwil | I just thought of another reason why the N900 is far better than most of the Android handsets from HTC, Moto etc |
| 07:38.17 | ketas | god, windows logo on nokia device |
| 07:38.18 | jonwil | Unlike HTC and Moto, Nokia complied with the GPL and other OSS licenses from day one |
| 07:39.06 | jonwil | HTC continues to release devices that violate the GPL (and then releases source code months later that may not actually match what was shipped on the device or may be incomplete or missing HW drivers) |
| 07:39.35 | ketas | noone cares about that nowadays, it's sad |
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| 07:40.02 | sgev | hi |
| 07:40.07 | TheJ | anyone here using the powerkernel v46.. just wondering is it worth to update? |
| 07:40.11 | sgev | are there means to unlock a SIM to make it open sim? |
| 07:40.16 | sgev | and if so how can this be stopped |
| 07:40.25 | sgev | with symbian phones i mean |
| 07:40.37 | RST38h | SIM or phone? |
| 07:40.44 | ketas | unlock a sim? |
| 07:41.01 | sgev | SIM |
| 07:41.02 | sgev | yes |
| 07:41.09 | ketas | what you mean |
| 07:41.09 | sgev | so it works on different networks |
| 07:41.14 | ketas | the sim? |
| 07:41.19 | sgev | yes |
| 07:41.20 | ketas | or the phone |
| 07:41.23 | sgev | like GSM sims |
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| 07:41.24 | RST38h | SIM cannot work on different networks |
| 07:41.32 | RST38h | SIM is tied to a network. |
| 07:41.38 | ketas | well it can roam |
| 07:41.41 | RST38h | It may work on other networks in roaming mode |
| 07:41.50 | sgev | RST38h: in roaming |
| 07:41.54 | sgev | but i mean if you want to trace someone |
| 07:41.57 | RST38h | But I guess this is not what this particular individual want |
| 07:42.01 | sgev | like say you lost a phone |
| 07:42.12 | ketas | hmm? |
| 07:42.22 | sgev | are there ways they can block you from trsacing it? |
| 07:42.23 | RST38h | sgev: Sorry, cannot answer your question, it does not parse. |
| 07:42.49 | ketas | i don't understand either |
| 07:42.58 | sgev | if a phone is list, like a GSM phone i mean |
| 07:43.03 | sgev | how do you track it |
| 07:43.10 | TheJ | imei? |
| 07:43.11 | ketas | like a blacklist? |
| 07:43.37 | sgev | yes IMEI |
| 07:43.46 | sgev | can the IMEI be changed or something? |
| 07:43.47 | RobbieThe1st | If the original sim is in it, you can probably ask for the location. Several countrys have blacklists of IMEI numbers; a blacklisted IMEI won't be allowed on the network |
| 07:43.49 | ketas | you want to change imei?! |
| 07:43.53 | sgev | not i |
| 07:44.02 | sgev | can people change it so they're not being tracked? |
| 07:44.15 | ketas | how this helps |
| 07:44.16 | sgev | ah |
| 07:44.22 | TheJ | put a tin foil hat on? |
| 07:44.30 | ketas | you can switch a phone |
| 07:44.39 | RobbieThe1st | Someone could turn it off, or remove the sim |
| 07:44.40 | RST38h | IMEI has nothing to do with SIM cards |
| 07:44.44 | RST38h | Cards have IMSI |
| 07:44.56 | sgev | well i mean tracking a phone and the sim |
| 07:44.59 | sgev | which is IMEI and IMSI |
| 07:45.06 | sgev | if they do turn it off, then? |
| 07:45.12 | RobbieThe1st | Mind you, if someone wanted to sell a stolen phone, they'd probably sell it overseas |
| 07:45.16 | RST38h | sgev: Ok, your question is best to be answered at www.google.com |
| 07:45.23 | sgev | but there is no way to circumvent the SIM to make it untraceable is there? |
| 07:45.38 | ketas | untraceable sim? |
| 07:45.39 | sgev | the oly possible way is they turn it off or remove the SIM |
| 07:45.43 | RST38h | Because it is really difficult to understand what you are asking about, but Google may figure it out, eventually |
| 07:45.51 | sgev | im asking if im lost my phone |
| 07:45.53 | sgev | can it be traced |
| 07:45.57 | TheJ | use a old phone thats imei is not registered, and an prepaid sim |
| 07:46.08 | RST38h | sgev: Yes, theoretically it can be traced by IMEI |
| 07:46.13 | sgev | ok |
| 07:46.14 | ketas | yes |
| 07:46.21 | sgev | and tracing the SIm too? |
| 07:46.22 | RST38h | sgev: Practically, you are out of luck because nobody will be doing this for you |
| 07:46.28 | ketas | yes |
| 07:46.35 | ketas | sim can be tracked too |
| 07:46.40 | RobbieThe1st | You can install custom software for tracking it |
| 07:46.42 | RST38h | Nobody will use your SIM card, so forget about IMSI |
| 07:46.46 | sgev | ok and nobody can actually manipulate the inner workings of a SIm to make it untraceable can they |
| 07:47.00 | RST38h | Throwing away the SIM card is the first thing a thief would do |
| 07:47.14 | ketas | well sim is supposed to be subscriber identifying module |
| 07:47.20 | sgev | yes but they wouldnt try to modify anything in there to make te SIM work and still not get caught? |
| 07:47.21 | RST38h | sgev: You can throw the SIM away and then it is untraceable |
| 07:47.31 | sgev | i get that |
| 07:47.34 | RST38h | Good. |
| 07:48.24 | RST38h | So, do not repeat the same question. |
| 07:48.24 | sgev | but im asking if people do anything to the SIM to make it work that makes it untraceable? |
| 07:48.24 | ketas | sim is id of customer |
| 07:48.24 | RST38h | No. |
| 07:48.24 | sgev | there's no such means to do it is there? |
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| 07:48.24 | RST38h | No. |
| 07:48.25 | sgev | sweet |
| 07:48.25 | sgev | thanks |
| 07:48.25 | RST38h | Good. |
| 07:48.36 | ketas | if you lost phone and it's still on with sim card, for example, my operator allows it's tracking |
| 07:49.07 | MohammadAG | mornin |
| 07:49.37 | TheJ | use different prepaid sims in different phones, switch off after ransom call, wipe fingerprints and toss the phone. |
| 07:49.40 | sgev | yeah but if the guy dumps the sim you;re sol |
| 07:49.40 | ketas | i can log in and find it's location |
| 07:50.02 | sgev | and by the time they track your IMEI |
| 07:50.08 | ketas | then, if they are stupid, you can track phone's usage with imei |
| 07:50.10 | sgev | you'd be in who knows where |
| 07:50.18 | sgev | not wortht the effort |
| 07:50.59 | sgev | who does the tracking for the IMEI? |
| 07:51.09 | sgev | the local telco or the phone brand? |
| 07:51.11 | EdLin | sgev: if you don't want someone to know where you are, don't use a bloody cell phone. Finish. The police and courts routinely use cell phone records to trace alibis, for example. |
| 07:51.29 | EdLin | sgev: imeis are registered by an international organiation. |
| 07:51.36 | TheJ | in my coyntry its the police with the operator |
| 07:51.38 | sgev | thats nice, who tracks it? |
| 07:51.39 | EdLin | sgev: all cell carriers belong to it. |
| 07:51.46 | ketas | yes, police here too |
| 07:51.48 | EdLin | sgev: and get the records |
| 07:51.49 | sgev | ok |
| 07:51.55 | ketas | you can report stolen phone and give it's imei |
| 07:52.02 | sgev | ok |
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| 08:44.32 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:50.47 | ketas | sun didn't rise today |
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| 09:25.01 | jonwil | Anyone here know how to dump the communications between the cell modem and the AP? |
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| 09:25.08 | jonwil | applications processor that is |
| 09:25.16 | jonwil | not the tower |
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| 09:34.42 | psycho_oreos | not without the right hardware and a rogue cell :) |
| 09:38.01 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 09:38.09 | MohammadAG | suppose an open source dialer was done |
| 09:38.15 | MohammadAG | can we add 3G video call support? |
| 09:39.59 | flailingmonkey | mind would be blown |
| 09:40.59 | flailingmonkey | by that you don't just mean XMPP/Jingle video cacll |
| 09:41.34 | flailingmonkey | s/cacll/call/ |
| 09:41.56 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure what it's called |
| 09:42.09 | jonwil | looks like I can use tcpdump to dump the phonet messages |
| 09:42.17 | jonwil | and then analyze them with a wireshark plugin |
| 09:42.51 | jonwil | as for 3G video call, it depends on whether the cell modem firmware supports the lower level interfaces required |
| 09:43.08 | MohammadAG | it probably does |
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| 09:44.38 | flailingmonkey | the google chat video calls work using an XMPP extension called Jingle. Skype... well I have no idea, but in both cases they're just having library calls made I bet |
| 09:45.55 | MohammadAG | those aren't 3G video calls |
| 09:46.44 | flailingmonkey | then we are talking about the same thing :) the real 3G video calls, I have no clue |
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| 09:47.33 | flailingmonkey | does maemo 5 currently support 3G video calls (with closed source dialer)? |
| 09:48.11 | jonwil | nope, it doesnt support 3G video calls |
| 09:48.29 | Corsac | but you can do jabber video calls over 3G |
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| 09:50.09 | trumee | Corsac, that is besides the point |
| 09:50.42 | flailingmonkey | apparetly 3G video calls use or are based on 3G-324M? |
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| 09:52.10 | trumee | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G-324M |
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| 09:54.08 | kerio | â/detach # |
| 09:54.10 | kerio | whoops |
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| 09:58.42 | flailingmonkey | wouldn't it need to get configuration for your 3G service provider, to use the right gateway,billing, etc |
| 09:59.37 | phellarv | 11111111111111111111ider, to use the right gateway,billing, etc [10:58] [phellarv(+i)] [2:#maemo(+Cc1111 |
| 09:59.43 | phellarv | Upps |
| 10:00.26 | GNUtoo|laptop | btw is it possible to have an initramfs? |
| 10:00.47 | GNUtoo|laptop | for instance I'd like to try the omap3 hardware encryption......on a rootfs |
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| 10:01.15 | GNUtoo|laptop | oops wrong channel |
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| 10:05.20 | xkr47 | does anyone have some software for the n900 to automatically download the necessary stuff for agps to get going? |
| 10:05.44 | MohammadAG | AGPS works out of the box |
| 10:05.47 | xkr47 | for example when I connect my usb it could download the latest info so I wouldn't have to connect over 3g later when I go out hiking |
| 10:05.56 | MohammadAG | oh |
| 10:06.21 | xkr47 | now I activate some program using gps at home before I leave and then immediately turn it off |
| 10:07.13 | xkr47 | maybe I should just write a small program that just starts gps briefly when connected to internet over usb |
| 10:07.50 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28064.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:08.41 | korhojoa | xkr47: that works. you could also just use something like launching gpsjinni and then closing it half a minute later |
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| 10:08.47 | flailingmonkey | my understanding of how agps works in the N900 is that it sent tower signal data to a server, and gets back the necessary gps "hints" for satellite stuff? |
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| 10:09.15 | xkr47 | korhojoa, ok thanks |
| 10:09.20 | korhojoa | flailingmonkey: it does indeed do that. i do think it stores almanac info too |
| 10:09.34 | korhojoa | so it would lessen the use of the data |
| 10:09.59 | flailingmonkey | would be helpful for it to do so |
| 10:10.05 | korhojoa | the almanac is what you need for getting the fast lock |
| 10:10.30 | korhojoa | that's how some gps navigators connect within seconds of powering on |
| 10:10.54 | korhojoa | tomtoms for instance "plug it in to your computer and enjoy fast locks for two weeks!" |
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| 10:11.58 | chx | two weeks? and then? |
| 10:12.05 | jonwil | well finding out all the secrets of the GPS stack on Maemo is on my todo list :) |
| 10:12.07 | flailingmonkey | right because without the almanac info, it takes a lot longer to get a gps fix |
| 10:12.11 | alterego | chx: then you have to plug it in again. |
| 10:12.24 | chx | interestin |
| 10:12.42 | chx | honestly, the most exciting and most disappointing gps are the new garmins |
| 10:13.09 | korhojoa | how so? |
| 10:13.19 | chx | i dont drive and i travel lots and i was very excited about cityXplorer -- but 10 usd/eur for a map per city that does not include updates? is this a joke? |
| 10:13.22 | jonwil | right now though I need to finish my emerge update world on Gentoo, then emerge wireshark, compile the wireshark plugin and load this packet capture |
| 10:13.22 | korhojoa | their wristwatch models are interesting though |
| 10:13.44 | korhojoa | chx: 'acquire' the maps online |
| 10:13.55 | jonwil | Nokia Maps on the N900 is good enough for me as someone who doesn't drive |
| 10:14.00 | chx | as far as i am aware cityxplorer is the only offline gps that has public transportation info |
| 10:14.04 | chx | korhojoa: tsk, tsk |
| 10:14.10 | korhojoa | i'm now stuck without sygic since i got a new n900, so the imei changed |
| 10:14.13 | jonwil | since I dont drive, the top-down view is fine |
| 10:14.29 | korhojoa | there's a 3D view too |
| 10:14.31 | chx | jonwil: no public transport info in there. |
| 10:14.42 | jonwil | yeah that's the downside |
| 10:14.59 | psycho_oreos | there's GeePS, which utilises Google maps, but it has its own flaws |
| 10:15.08 | jonwil | I want to see someone write an open source GPS app using OpenStreetMap map data |
| 10:15.35 | jonwil | and then overlay General Transit Feed Specification data (which is what Google uses for its public transit stuff) on top |
| 10:15.35 | korhojoa | jonwil: AGTL uses openstreetmap data |
| 10:16.02 | alterego | Columbus will be use OSM |
| 10:16.08 | alterego | using .. |
| 10:16.23 | alterego | Columbus, what a fucking waste of my time. |
| 10:16.36 | korhojoa | how so? |
| 10:16.57 | chx | psycho_oreos: http://www.my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=Crochik_GeePS&faq=38&fldAuto=1940 this? public transit? offline? |
| 10:16.57 | alterego | I thought ... "Write a sleek GPS app" .. "It'll be mature and ready for the next device" ... |
| 10:17.04 | alterego | Ffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Nokia! |
| 10:17.06 | korhojoa | ahh. |
| 10:17.20 | jonwil | an open-source cross-platform GPS app with free map data that provides voice guidance and other important features would be a GREAT thing |
| 10:17.26 | korhojoa | well, just start over with WP7 (trollface.jpg) |
| 10:17.38 | alterego | :/ |
| 10:17.49 | korhojoa | heh. make it run on qt |
| 10:17.55 | alterego | I spent a year learning Qt and developing Columbus .. |
| 10:17.56 | psycho_oreos | chx, yes that. Not sure on public transit, doubt it. Offline mode? won't work, data isn't being cached I bet |
| 10:17.58 | korhojoa | qt runs on wp7, right? |
| 10:18.04 | alterego | korhojoa: no |
| 10:18.16 | korhojoa | or of it doesn't: make a qt lib for ot |
| 10:18.18 | korhojoa | it* |
| 10:18.33 | alterego | korhojoa: that seems to be one of Nokias agreements with MS, no Qt. |
| 10:18.39 | korhojoa | really? |
| 10:18.43 | korhojoa | FUCK THAT |
| 10:18.58 | jonwil | I think a lot of it is simply that WP7 is .net only |
| 10:19.04 | jonwil | and there is no .net port of QT |
| 10:19.19 | jonwil | even if there was a .net port of QT it wouldn't make cross-platform-ness any easier |
| 10:19.29 | ketas | be quiet and let microsoft do it's job, it will be gentle |
| 10:19.33 | jonwil | since .net and regular C++ arent the same |
| 10:19.35 | korhojoa | hahaha |
| 10:19.44 | korhojoa | ketas: "bend over, bite your lip" |
| 10:19.48 | ketas | yes |
| 10:19.57 | jonwil | I dont intend to sit there and take it from Microsoft |
| 10:20.04 | alterego | I heard WP development was mainly silver shite ... |
| 10:20.16 | jonwil | I havent spent a cent on Microsoft software in years and I have no intention to start now |
| 10:20.27 | jonwil | The only GOOD thing Microsoft makes is mice |
| 10:20.35 | jonwil | and even then they dont make the mouse I like anymore |
| 10:20.39 | ketas | microsoft doesn't make mice |
| 10:20.45 | korhojoa | "ahh, yes. feels great, doesn't it? trust me, closed source will keep this interaction hidden from everyone else" |
| 10:20.53 | alterego | I've got a well sexy Microsoft Mouse my gfs mum got me for xmas. |
| 10:20.53 | jonwil | I have a mouse right here that says Microsoft on it |
| 10:20.54 | dotblank | jonwil, you know tMS's mice are actually logitech |
| 10:21.00 | ketas | korhojoa: hahaha |
| 10:21.06 | dotblank | its just rebranded |
| 10:21.16 | jonwil | maybe Microsoft has changed lately but I know that they used to make mice |
| 10:21.18 | korhojoa | ketas: it'd be fun if it wasn't true |
| 10:21.29 | jonwil | or at least did the design and stuff and then had an OEM makes them |
| 10:21.34 | korhojoa | jonwil: the original explorer series :3 |
| 10:21.43 | alterego | I got one of those wireless arc mice. Really nice :) |
| 10:21.48 | alterego | Perfect for my lappy. |
| 10:21.57 | ketas | i want phones able to run several oses |
| 10:22.09 | dotblank | this ^ |
| 10:22.15 | jonwil | I have a Microsoft Intellimouse Optical with the 2 side buttons and wish I could find another one exactly like it |
| 10:22.19 | korhojoa | get vmware on it |
| 10:22.26 | jonwil | there is a lack of non-sucky mice around these days |
| 10:22.27 | Venemo_N900 | interesting that the crappy nokia announcement that denounced meego actually boosted irc on both #maemo and #meego |
| 10:22.38 | dotblank | oh yea I know |
| 10:22.49 | korhojoa | "fuck it, we'll do it without them" |
| 10:22.58 | ketas | but hw? |
| 10:23.02 | ketas | nokia makes good hw |
| 10:23.21 | dotblank | we can build our own phones on the 8500 platform |
| 10:23.31 | jonwil | All the mice out there are wireless (which suck), tiny notebook mice (also suck) or "basic" |
| 10:23.40 | dotblank | http://www.stericsson.com/platforms/U8500.jsp |
| 10:24.09 | korhojoa | is that the dual cortex design? |
| 10:24.25 | alterego | I think this wireless mouse is very good ... |
| 10:24.41 | jonwil | All I want in a mouse is a decent optical sensor, nice large easy-to-hold form factor, standard USB HID interface (with no wireless) and nice big buttons (including the left and right side buttons) |
| 10:24.47 | jonwil | and a scroll wheel |
| 10:25.17 | jonwil | but no-one makes the mouse I want |
| 10:25.19 | APTX | has a razer mouse |
| 10:25.26 | ketas | what you think about new logitech wheel? |
| 10:25.28 | jonwil | It was hard enough finding a keyboard I liked (ended up with a Logitec) |
| 10:25.31 | ketas | tilts left and right |
| 10:25.50 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@lns-bzn-50f-62-147-188-179.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 10:26.15 | ketas | i mean you scroll up and down, press down, left, right |
| 10:26.19 | ketas | very useless |
| 10:26.27 | korhojoa | APTX: which one? i've got the copperhead and the mamba |
| 10:26.42 | APTX | Diamondback 3g |
| 10:26.43 | jonwil | never really liked Logitech mice so if MS have stopped making their own mice designs, I dont know where my next mouse will come from |
| 10:26.49 | APTX | got it as a present |
| 10:26.52 | korhojoa | i do like my trackball though. |
| 10:27.01 | APTX | likes it |
| 10:27.03 | korhojoa | APTX: same here, i got mine as presents |
| 10:27.07 | ketas | tracks korhojoa's balls |
| 10:27.22 | korhojoa | :D |
| 10:27.32 | korhojoa | no! track my point! |
| 10:27.48 | ketas | ---> . |
| 10:27.55 | korhojoa | trackpoints > trackpads |
| 10:28.08 | ketas | trackpads? |
| 10:28.38 | jonwil | I hate laptops with trackpads or worse still those little nubs |
| 10:28.43 | korhojoa | touchpads, whatever |
| 10:28.44 | jonwil | I would always use an external mouse with a laptop |
| 10:28.54 | RobbieThe1st | Nubmouse FTW |
| 10:28.54 | korhojoa | the nubs are awesome. |
| 10:29.06 | jacekowski | tits |
| 10:29.09 | jacekowski | nipples |
| 10:29.13 | ketas | heck, what to do with 18Mp camera in mobile phone |
| 10:29.18 | korhojoa | clit |
| 10:29.24 | jacekowski | ketas: HD porn |
| 10:29.27 | korhojoa | ketas: take hq upskirt photos |
| 10:29.40 | ketas | 18Mp tiny lens, 1mm sensor |
| 10:29.42 | korhojoa | well then. we've defined why. |
| 10:29.44 | ketas | something like that |
| 10:30.07 | korhojoa | add a flash. alternatively, get someone to flash |
| 10:30.35 | psycho_oreos | dotblank, too bad that platform doesn't have hardware keyboard |
| 10:30.51 | ketas | korhojoa: hahaha |
| 10:31.02 | ketas | so women make best pictures? |
| 10:31.03 | Venemo_N900 | dotblank: tell us when you built a phone. we may buy it :) |
| 10:31.12 | dotblank | lol |
| 10:31.16 | ketas | they flash well |
| 10:31.27 | chx | has a Lenovo T400s and have the trackpad disabled. |
| 10:31.29 | flailingmonkey | I have really liked the Razer Orochi |
| 10:31.36 | dotblank | I think that might a big project |
| 10:31.42 | chx | These trackpoints are really the best things evah |
| 10:31.44 | RobbieThe1st | Trackpad's good for one thing: Scrolling |
| 10:31.48 | dotblank | would need help from say... all of you |
| 10:31.54 | korhojoa | chx: pretty much, yes. |
| 10:31.57 | RobbieThe1st | I use my trackpad and trackpoint on my T500 |
| 10:32.14 | flailingmonkey | we'll just hack the shit Noki-doze phone and slap meego on it |
| 10:32.36 | alterego | tries to think of fun things he can do with 2 N900s and an N95 8G |
| 10:33.02 | flailingmonkey | WP7 is all about Silverlight, not even C#... so I don't even know wtf its about |
| 10:33.05 | RobbieThe1st | Well heck, if I've got to hack my phone, I'd want an x86-compatible chip at least... |
| 10:33.17 | RobbieThe1st | Then there's -no limit- to the stuff you could run |
| 10:33.32 | psycho_oreos | except it drains battery like hell and its more expensive |
| 10:34.09 | korhojoa | alterego: dgps + 3D video streaming and use the n95 as a reverse camera |
| 10:34.23 | ketas | i own older t60 |
| 10:34.28 | ketas | has both point and pad |
| 10:34.32 | ketas | sometimes point is good |
| 10:34.51 | RobbieThe1st | Psycho: Bigger battery, then! |
| 10:34.55 | flailingmonkey | lots of use of point and it starts to drift to one side |
| 10:35.04 | ketas | umm |
| 10:35.15 | ketas | laptop's clit |
| 10:35.29 | RobbieThe1st | Release the clit for 30 secs, and it stops the drift |
| 10:35.43 | ketas | weird |
| 10:35.44 | flailingmonkey | i realized, but its frustrating that it happens at all |
| 10:35.45 | korhojoa | yeah |
| 10:35.50 | ketas | buggy hw? |
| 10:35.57 | psycho_oreos | RobbieThe1st, and that would add even more cost to the device itself :) have a look at aava mobile |
| 10:36.00 | korhojoa | it's because of how it detects movement |
| 10:36.14 | RobbieThe1st | I figure Intel's gonna be building them with Intel procs |
| 10:36.23 | RobbieThe1st | But I mean... if I've got to hack it in the first place. |
| 10:36.45 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.161.195) |
| 10:36.57 | RobbieThe1st | Not going to -buy- a locked-down phone anyway |
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| 10:38.16 | alterego | Intel will, but other ISVs wont. |
| 10:38.35 | maybeWTF | http://www.msqt.org/ old? :P |
| 10:39.13 | RobbieThe1st | Admittedly, though... a 5" device that can run a full OS and x86-compatible windows games would be frigging sweet. Even with 4hrs of full-speed batterylife |
| 10:39.42 | korhojoa | RobbieThe1st: so a oqo? |
| 10:39.48 | flailingmonkey | lolol ogo |
| 10:39.51 | flailingmonkey | *oqo |
| 10:39.52 | RobbieThe1st | Uh... |
| 10:40.22 | RobbieThe1st | No clue what that is |
| 10:40.24 | flailingmonkey | google will rescue you |
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| 10:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | ~wtf oqo |
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| 10:42.55 | ketas | hmm |
| 10:43.29 | RobbieThe1st | http://www.oqo.com/products/index.html Cool... but too expensive. :\ |
| 10:43.41 | RobbieThe1st | I see what you mean though. Kubuntu mobile on that, though.. |
| 10:44.30 | ketas | i want n900 |
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| 10:46.51 | RobbieThe1st | Something like that -might- be my upgrade/replacement when my n900 breaks |
| 10:47.01 | RobbieThe1st | Provided I can get a good OS on it |
| 10:47.20 | RobbieThe1st | Honestly, Maemo 5 on that'd be nice. |
| 10:47.24 | psycho_oreos | too bad OQO doesn't have phone capability unlike n900 :D |
| 10:48.03 | RobbieThe1st | It's got a sim, doesn't it? So it could probably be added via some custom firmware... |
| 10:48.13 | RobbieThe1st | what with that OSS GSM stack |
| 10:48.56 | korhojoa | oqos do voip, if nothing else |
| 10:49.16 | RobbieThe1st | 'Course they do - any PC can |
| 10:50.47 | psycho_oreos | it has WWAN capability |
| 10:50.49 | ketas | someone said wondered if he should buy 10 n900's so it will last until he dies |
| 10:50.57 | ketas | s/said // |
| 10:51.03 | psycho_oreos | actually that's optional that WWAN |
| 10:51.22 | jaska | i wouldnt expect gsm&co to be here a lifetime |
| 10:52.16 | psycho_oreos | n900 can operate without a SIM and plus with USB hostmode, you could still attach a different sort of modem up :p |
| 10:52.50 | jaska | usb->somefuturebus->someevenmorefuturebus->wtfmodem :) |
| 10:53.12 | ketas | wtfmodem :) |
| 10:53.28 | korhojoa | hahaha |
| 10:53.34 | flailingmonkey | wtfmodem!!!! |
| 10:53.50 | ketas | one that makes wwtffffwwtfff sounds |
| 10:53.52 | jaska | wireless transfer functionality modem! (backronym!) |
| 10:53.59 | psycho_oreos | USB v3.0 has already been made but that has backward compatibility. I'm sure latter generations of USB should more or less also incorporate the same basic feature as the original USB v1.1 |
| 10:53.59 | korhojoa | h-e-n, enable usb to light peak converter |
| 10:55.26 | flailingmonkey | that's old, usb to quantum-entanglement-modem |
| 10:55.44 | ketas | quantum field transceiver |
| 10:55.45 | flailingmonkey | a real wtfmodem |
| 10:56.37 | psycho_oreos | and whomever decides to buy 10 n900 will soon find out what a waste of money :) hopefully |
| 10:56.51 | ketas | i wonder if ballmer blowed elop or what |
| 10:57.04 | RobbieThe1st | Loads of money! |
| 10:57.13 | jonwil | Even if nothing ever changes, the software on the N900 is still up there as some of the best phone software I have ever used |
| 10:57.18 | RobbieThe1st | Plus, Elop obviously believes in Microsoft |
| 10:57.21 | dm8tbr | btw: I'd vote for 'Wireless Technology (from the) Future' |
| 10:57.22 | jonwil | and with the Community SSU, its going to get even better I hope |
| 10:58.13 | psycho_oreos | its not like there won't be any more linux phones out there :) it just means that there will be a bit of a wait |
| 10:58.47 | ketas | i hope there's light in the end of the tunnel |
| 10:59.04 | psycho_oreos | plenty have been slain in the past |
| 11:00.01 | jonwil | I think there are too many vested interests against a linux phone for it to become mainstream or succeed |
| 11:00.13 | jonwil | Carriers dont like linux phones because of their openness |
| 11:00.36 | MohammadAG | sigh, can't get artist view working :/ |
| 11:02.56 | psycho_oreos | though android on the other hand with only linux kernel to prove its very small origins to linux itself seems to be selling like hot dogs.. I think the issue is that there are entities whom expect too much from a different sort of community in mind |
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| 11:03.11 | psycho_oreos | s/origins/ties/ |
| 11:03.34 | rzr | how much is n900 now ? |
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| 11:03.54 | Jartza | 430e in finland at least :) |
| 11:03.59 | alterego | starts drafting a hardware requirements specification. |
| 11:04.25 | psycho_oreos | are you also going to fund it? :p |
| 11:04.31 | rzr | i am wondering how many unsold unit can remain ... |
| 11:05.46 | rzr | and about ophono will intel keep it ? |
| 11:05.56 | haltdef | so guys, any ideas what would cause the n900 to randomly swap left and right audio channels? it's really starting to irritate me :P |
| 11:06.00 | rzr | ofono |
| 11:06.21 | alterego | Heh |
| 11:06.28 | otwieracz | I have problem with my maemo in n810 - I can't install bigger apps beucase of not enough free space in / - can I move some files to internal 2GB card? |
| 11:06.41 | rzr | otwieracz: sure |
| 11:06.53 | rzr | otwieracz: use ln -fs :) |
| 11:07.17 | rzr | otwieracz: i had a script for that |
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| 11:08.04 | psycho_oreos | haltdef, could be plenty, ranging from poor cable, to poor audio connectivity and maybe even the packages you've installed |
| 11:08.14 | otwieracz | rzr: I was thinking about whole /usr - but I heard that maemo won't boot if /usr isn't at rootfs. |
| 11:08.47 | rzr | not /use |
| 11:09.03 | rzr | not /usr , du /home 1st |
| 11:09.11 | haltdef | it happens with different earphones, randomly flips them, gives me a heart attack when it does .. only pckage I can think of is headphone daemon |
| 11:09.15 | rzr | then /var/ |
| 11:09.36 | psycho_oreos | and I probably wouldn't use ln -s on those directories, if anything I'd do binding mounts, but heck I don't even have N810, only N900 |
| 11:10.06 | otwieracz | home and var summary takes about 60megs. |
| 11:10.12 | psycho_oreos | haltdef, it could be the jack that might be playing up, what about bluetooth headphones/headsets? |
| 11:10.12 | otwieracz | 80* |
| 11:10.24 | DocScrutinizer | jaska: 2G -> 3G -> LTE -> YouNeverLiveAsLong |
| 11:10.35 | otwieracz | usr 227MB... |
| 11:10.45 | haltdef | only pair I have aren't noise cancelling and sound awful :P |
| 11:10.56 | haltdef | everything's fine when I'm actively trying to fix it ofc |
| 11:11.18 | psycho_oreos | define actively fixing |
| 11:11.40 | haltdef | trying to make it happen, googling, asking you guys |
| 11:11.48 | haltdef | I have no idea what's going on :P |
| 11:12.31 | psycho_oreos | no tinkering with the audio jack in the process? like twisting the head of the jack whilst its plugged into the device? |
| 11:12.42 | DocScrutinizer | jaska: we got 2G since ~20 years now, and I can't see it vanishing any time soon |
| 11:12.48 | psycho_oreos | s/twisting/turning/ |
| 11:13.02 | haltdef | nope |
| 11:13.21 | haltdef | it'll switch them when the device isn't being touched |
| 11:13.31 | ketas | how this can change channels? |
| 11:13.36 | ketas | the plug |
| 11:13.47 | otwieracz | rzr: maybe some dirs from /usr? |
| 11:13.49 | psycho_oreos | and the only pair that you have which doesn't have noise cancelling and sounding awful is wired or wireless (bluetooth)? |
| 11:13.59 | DocScrutinizer | jaska: 3G is here since some few years and will live on for long time |
| 11:14.15 | haltdef | I haven't tried bluetooth yet, might be worth a try |
| 11:15.12 | psycho_oreos | I'd give that a try if you do happen to have bluetooth headphone/headset with of course the usual speakers covering both left and right ear.. not those stupid one sided based headsets |
| 11:15.31 | psycho_oreos | if it does it there, then its a software issue, otherwise it might be a hardware issue |
| 11:15.37 | haltdef | yea I have a2dp ones |
| 11:15.43 | rzr | Jartza: yea 400 EUR in france too |
| 11:15.49 | DocScrutinizer | jaska: after 3G we get LTE which is "Long Term Evolution", meant to be even longer perspective, and afaik has 3G compatibility as inherent feature |
| 11:16.03 | ketas | imagines two one ear headsets paired to phone |
| 11:18.02 | DocScrutinizer | haltdef: oh, your weird R/L issue again? |
| 11:18.13 | haltdef | still |
| 11:18.57 | haltdef | n900 has been misbehaving a lot recently, random hangs, battery draining in standby .. considering it's *just* a phone and mp3 player now (got a viliv n5, pocketable win7) it's starting to upset me heh |
| 11:19.06 | DocScrutinizer | given the insanely complex software side of maemo audio that will be a hard one to track down |
| 11:20.13 | psycho_oreos | it might even be linked to hardware faults |
| 11:20.48 | psycho_oreos | s/faults/faults or defects/ |
| 11:20.56 | haltdef | mm |
| 11:21.11 | haltdef | don't fancy going back to my xperia x1 if so :P |
| 11:21.38 | DocScrutinizer | on ALSA I'd suggest to plug in a type-file-plugin someway down the audio stream, close to "DAC" aka audio card, and see if the recorded file also has the switches, which would mean it's a mere sw issue |
| 11:22.32 | DocScrutinizer | there are odds it actually is a I2S interface getting out of sync, which easily could cause L/R swap |
| 11:23.09 | DocScrutinizer | or simply "somebody" swapping channels in didital or analog in codec chip |
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| 11:27.20 | DocScrutinizer | scratch the I2S note, AIC34xx is hooked up to CPU via MCBSP2 and I don't think that can swap channels as easily as I2S |
| 11:27.45 | otwieracz | rzr: O moved /var and /home to /media/mmc2, created symlinks /home â /media/mmc2/home and /var â /media/mmc2/home and it reboots whole time :( |
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| 11:30.01 | otwieracz | I can do something with reboot loop? |
| 11:30.18 | rzr | otwieracz: i would ln some specifict subdirs not the parents one |
| 11:30.35 | rzr | otwieracz: use flasher |
| 11:30.53 | jaska | doc: not sure how long people will live.. but i was thinking at 2050-2060 timeline |
| 11:30.54 | otwieracz | âflasherâ, what do you mean? |
| 11:30.54 | ketas | you fucked it |
| 11:31.14 | otwieracz | ketas: I know :( |
| 11:31.17 | rzr | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=869791#post869791 |
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| 11:33.46 | DocScrutinizer | I'm waiting for my coffee to take effect, so just a suggestion: (haltdef) we might check if AIC34xx registers can get read and dumped by I2Cget/I2Cdump, so we could track down when something fishy is going on with audio mixer setup causing this L/R swap |
| 11:34.19 | haltdef | I have no idea what that means :| |
| 11:35.35 | otwieracz | rzr: So, i must reflash it? |
| 11:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | AIC34 is the mixer aka audiocard/ADC chip. It has a friggin lot of registers to to do all sorts of fancy things. It is hooked to CPU via I2C bus for control. You might be able to read out the registers using i2cdump tool |
| 11:36.40 | haltdef | so get a dump from that when the swap happens |
| 11:36.45 | flailingmonkey | night |
| 11:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 11:36.54 | *** part/#maemo flailingmonkey (628c565e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.140.86.94) |
| 11:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | and compare to when no swap is active |
| 11:37.45 | *** join/#maemo arixx (~arixx@unaffiliated/arixx) |
| 11:39.59 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: HELL!! :-( Didn't we tell you EXACTLY that, just 12h ago?! DIDN'T WE??! |
| 11:40.40 | DocScrutinizer | ust in case you forgot |
| 11:40.44 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 11:40.44 | apt | from memory, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 |
| 11:41.11 | otwieracz | DocScrutinizer: You tell about /usr. |
| 11:41.17 | rzr | otwieracz: u'll have too |
| 11:41.29 | rzr | otwieracz: but u can save files before |
| 11:41.43 | rzr | otwieracz: but you already move /home |
| 11:41.58 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 11:43.18 | otwieracz | Yes. |
| 11:43.31 | otwieracz | /dev/mmcblk0p1 shouldn't be destroyed? |
| 11:43.43 | DocScrutinizer | fair enough, sorry I forgot to mention /var |
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| 11:46.11 | rzr | anyway i'll give u a list of *FILES* to be ln'ed |
| 11:46.29 | rzr | it's safer that linking dirs |
| 11:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | rzr: how's that safer? |
| 11:48.11 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: I suggest you read the few links mentioned in ~optification, and keep in mind Nokia never gave a F... about FHS |
| 11:48.26 | otwieracz | FHS? |
| 11:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | then you'll understand a lot better what can be done, what and why can't |
| 11:48.38 | rzr | because if some process tried to access some file in that dir and if it unmounted it wont find it |
| 11:48.52 | rzr | mount --bind could be an option too |
| 11:49.22 | rzr | otwieracz: next time check how big is /home |
| 11:49.24 | DocScrutinizer | that's what I suggested |
| 11:49.38 | otwieracz | rzr: about 40MB. |
| 11:49.46 | rzr | u can save some space in : |
| 11:49.49 | rzr | MyDocs/.documents |
| 11:49.49 | rzr | MyDocs/.images |
| 11:49.49 | rzr | MyDocs/.sounds |
| 11:49.57 | rzr | /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/Moby-In_My_Heart.mp3 |
| 11:49.58 | rzr | too |
| 11:50.12 | rzr | and other pdf files |
| 11:50.47 | otwieracz | Hmm - maybe other way â I can't install apps on mmcblk0p1? |
| 11:50.59 | *** part/#maemo epmf (~elliot@iota.hadesian.co.uk) |
| 11:51.20 | rzr | otwieracz: fat32 |
| 11:51.51 | DocScrutinizer | mkfs.ext3 ftw |
| 11:52.00 | otwieracz | I have ext3. |
| 11:52.25 | DocScrutinizer | rzr: you are aware he's on diablo/N810? |
| 11:52.32 | rzr | do i am |
| 11:52.35 | rzr | so i am |
| 11:52.46 | DocScrutinizer | fine :-D |
| 11:53.03 | otwieracz | I will be right back â dinner. |
| 11:53.09 | otwieracz | And ROM is downloading⦠|
| 11:53.10 | MohammadAG | I miss that song, it reminds me of the N95 :| |
| 11:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | I miss ~1500 records, reminds me of times when I was younger |
| 11:58.06 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 11:59.13 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p54946A4E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:01.17 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (guy@bzq-109-65-37-123.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:03.19 | *** join/#maemo Smith (~Smith@212.113.250.41) |
| 12:04.25 | DocScrutinizer | lol? not funny |
| 12:05.10 | rzr | just live in the past like we're doing w/ our n8x0 |
| 12:05.17 | rzr | i wish i can install amigaos in it |
| 12:05.38 | DocScrutinizer | workbench you mean? |
| 12:05.46 | rzr | yes same stuff |
| 12:06.00 | Trizt | feels like we all will keep on living in the glorious past with the new deal and the end of Nokia |
| 12:06.06 | otwieracz | OK, let's flash |
| 12:06.24 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@dynamic-78-8-22-244.ssp.dialog.net.pl) |
| 12:06.24 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 12:06.59 | Trizt | rzr; ain't there a UAE for the 8x0? |
| 12:07.07 | rzr | Trizt: if there is a future , nokia will have to follow it , we wont follow nokia blindly |
| 12:07.27 | DocScrutinizer | Let's Dance |
| 12:07.31 | rzr | Trizt: i think i read some posts mention about it |
| 12:08.08 | Trizt | I have it for my n900 and installed the kickstart rom I had, just haven't taken the time to setup workbench yet |
| 12:08.12 | otwieracz | Hah, It's alive! |
| 12:08.14 | otwieracz | :-) |
| 12:08.21 | rzr | i dont feel arrow keys can replace the big black joystick i had on my a500 |
| 12:08.45 | Trizt | rzr; should be possible to make some hack and use a joystick |
| 12:08.48 | rzr | Trizt: i guess u have all you need for |
| 12:09.01 | rzr | Trizt: and plug an external floppy disk :) |
| 12:09.08 | Trizt | rzr; yeah :) |
| 12:09.19 | rzr | Trizt: i miss this sound too |
| 12:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | rzr: that's what h-e-n is for :-P |
| 12:09.40 | Trizt | rzr; the WB I have a backup of has a bunch of PowerPC binaries too, so need to "wash" them out first |
| 12:10.41 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 12:10.44 | otwieracz | Whatever â what about installing software in internal flash? |
| 12:10.47 | rzr | Trizt: maybe u can reuse those AIAB images |
| 12:10.58 | DocScrutinizer | otwieracz: should work |
| 12:11.06 | otwieracz | How? |
| 12:11.19 | DocScrutinizer | like on every other linux/unix |
| 12:11.31 | rzr | i would hack something using /opt |
| 12:11.36 | jonwil | I have a problem, on the N900 chess app, on the start screen, there are dropdown lists to select player 1 and opponent. The dropdown arrow for these dropdown lists is corrupt. |
| 12:11.42 | *** join/#maemo Smith (~Smith@212.113.250.41) |
| 12:11.43 | rzr | and use symlinks |
| 12:11.45 | jonwil | Yet for every other app with the same dropdown list, its correct |
| 12:11.59 | jonwil | ideas anyone? |
| 12:12.11 | Trizt | rzr; don't know, but I really want to use the programs I had like AmIrc (still haven't seen any as good which uses GUI) and my dopus5... |
| 12:12.17 | DocScrutinizer | rzr: for sure the simplest nobrainer. That's why Nokia used that path :-D |
| 12:12.20 | otwieracz | DocScrutinizer: I can tell application manager where to install apps? |
| 12:12.30 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 12:12.39 | DocScrutinizer | but there's mv, and ln |
| 12:12.53 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs33.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 12:12.54 | otwieracz | :( |
| 12:13.35 | jonwil | bah, why is this chess app screwing up :( |
| 12:13.58 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: found .h? |
| 12:14.06 | jonwil | found .h for what? |
| 12:14.21 | *** join/#maemo Extends (~quassel@189.27.190.208.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 12:14.26 | DocScrutinizer | yeah that's my question :-) |
| 12:14.55 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-13 03:00:34] <jonwil> I found the ISI headers I wanted in the QT SDK download |
| 12:15.07 | jonwil | Yeah, I did, I found header files for the cell modem |
| 12:15.13 | jonwil | i.e. pn_location_isi.h and friends |
| 12:15.22 | jonwil | the location header definatly matches the N900 |
| 12:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 12:16.02 | jonwil | they appear to be what was in the cellmo-headers and cellmo-icpr82-headers |
| 12:16.07 | jonwil | that were in the repos |
| 12:16.09 | jonwil | and then removed |
| 12:16.15 | DocScrutinizer | WUT?? |
| 12:16.18 | jonwil | I think they were removed because they contain various internal information |
| 12:16.26 | jonwil | like internal intranet URLs |
| 12:16.29 | jonwil | and email addresses |
| 12:16.32 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 12:16.32 | jonwil | and changelog entries |
| 12:16.34 | jonwil | and things |
| 12:16.39 | jonwil | but they are definatly of value |
| 12:16.47 | jonwil | and I intend to use them |
| 12:16.53 | DocScrutinizer | WTF!!! FAILEWALE Nokia |
| 12:16.55 | jonwil | for my reverse engineering anyway |
| 12:18.18 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: could you post me these files / URL / howto? |
| 12:19.51 | jonwil | http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html |
| 12:19.56 | jonwil | Thats the download I am using |
| 12:20.04 | jonwil | the one I installed rather |
| 12:20.18 | jonwil | with the .h files |
| 12:20.42 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.146.210) |
| 12:20.57 | MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/QtSDK$ find -name pn_location_isi.h |
| 12:21.03 | MohammadAG | ./Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim/usr/include/ISI/icpr82/pn_location_isi.h |
| 12:21.03 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 12:24.11 | jonwil | bah, cant seem to solve this chess glitching :( |
| 12:24.12 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: UMMM windows??? :-o |
| 12:24.22 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 12:24.40 | jonwil | that SDK has options for windows and linux |
| 12:25.00 | DocScrutinizer | nm |
| 12:25.09 | DocScrutinizer | found it |
| 12:25.12 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Great - still looking for CBS voulenteers in places where they send CBs? Or did you work it out. |
| 12:25.12 | *** join/#maemo lucent_ (eshattow@Ariel.Atlantica.US.TO) |
| 12:25.22 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 12:25.29 | jonwil | Still want someone to run my test thingo for CBS |
| 12:25.38 | jonwil | bah, stupid chess app |
| 12:25.59 | DocScrutinizer | .run WTF?! |
| 12:26.30 | jonwil | tried everything except a reflash to fix my chess app and no go :( |
| 12:26.43 | jonwil | the glitching |
| 12:26.49 | FIQ|n900 | jonwil: i checked it up |
| 12:26.57 | FIQ|n900 | the arrows is glitchy here too |
| 12:26.57 | jonwil | checked what up? |
| 12:27.05 | SpeedEvil | I will offer free nails, for anyone helping jonwils CBS efforts. (collect from my floorboards) |
| 12:27.06 | jonwil | ok, so it might be a bug in the chess app |
| 12:27.21 | jonwil | I posted to maemo-developer with details of my CBS thing |
| 12:27.22 | LjL | what do you say, Jabber with gateways, or telepathy-haze, to use say MSN on OS2008? |
| 12:27.42 | *** join/#maemo andrewfblack (927e3333@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.126.51.51) |
| 12:27.42 | DocScrutinizer | downloading 25MB of foobar.run --- what THE HELL am I going to do with this? |
| 12:27.44 | jonwil | hmm, the chess app is open-source so I could try and fix the glitch |
| 12:27.57 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: Oh - you responded to my comments on maemo-devel - I was simply referring to stuff like you're doing, and hostmode. |
| 12:28.29 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: And the bits of maemo that were closed and undocumented, but that released meego code has somewhat documented. |
| 12:28.41 | jonwil | like which bits? |
| 12:28.56 | jonwil | You mean like ofono |
| 12:28.57 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 12:29.01 | jonwil | vs closed telephony stack |
| 12:29.03 | FIQ|n900 | hrm, anyone knows some good site to upload a file >1GB for downloading? |
| 12:29.12 | SpeedEvil | Bittorrent. |
| 12:29.19 | FIQ|n900 | yeah, though about that |
| 12:29.28 | DocScrutinizer | CBS? I guess you mean SMS-CB |
| 12:29.31 | SpeedEvil | Is it likely to be a popular file? |
| 12:29.34 | jonwil | yes, SMS-CB |
| 12:29.36 | FIQ|n900 | but i don't think the person who will UL it would like it |
| 12:29.39 | FIQ|n900 | SpeedEvil: no |
| 12:29.45 | FIQ|n900 | just for me and a friend |
| 12:29.48 | *** join/#maemo Smith (~Smith@212.113.249.202) |
| 12:30.01 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@lns-bzn-50f-62-147-188-179.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 12:30.07 | FIQ|n900 | he uploads, i download |
| 12:30.15 | SpeedEvil | ftp |
| 12:30.24 | SpeedEvil | Or rsync between you |
| 12:30.24 | FIQ|n900 | could work |
| 12:30.26 | SpeedEvil | Or ... |
| 12:30.33 | FIQ|n900 | ...we are both on windows :P |
| 12:30.55 | SpeedEvil | Share your disk drive to the internet, then have him copy the file there. |
| 12:31.16 | FIQ|n900 | hrm |
| 12:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha |
| 12:31.38 | SpeedEvil | FIQ|n900: seriously - you have windows FTP daemons. |
| 12:31.51 | SpeedEvil | Or even DCC the file. |
| 12:32.12 | FIQ|n900 | yeah, FTP could work, as i said |
| 12:32.14 | jonwil | if I could only get this damn wireshark isi plugin to work properly on my gentoo box, I could examine this packet dump I made with tcpdump |
| 12:32.30 | jonwil | containing at least one confirmed Cell Broadcast SMS (confirmed via dbus-monitor) |
| 12:32.36 | FIQ|n900 | but i tried to setup ftp on my machine (for own use) some time ago w/o luck |
| 12:33.15 | FIQ|n900 | worked fine locally, but trying to connect remotely, just the login worked, then some error i was unable to fix occured |
| 12:33.29 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: looks like it's statically compiled graphical installer (that .run file) :P |
| 12:33.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | WTF?! |
| 12:34.10 | Smith | Guys, what IRC client you use on your n900 |
| 12:34.14 | FIQ|n900 | xchat |
| 12:34.17 | SpeedEvil | Smith: xchat |
| 12:34.22 | FIQ|n900 | and irssi is available |
| 12:34.26 | FIQ|n900 | if you prefer it |
| 12:34.27 | otwieracz | ssh + shell + irssi |
| 12:34.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | those IDIOTS offer binaries to install things?? |
| 12:34.32 | Smith | Thx |
| 12:34.40 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer51: Qt4 based, but not themed to systsem... it reminds me Windows ;o |
| 12:34.42 | Smith | I use qutim now |
| 12:34.47 | SpeedEvil | FIQ| scp? |
| 12:34.53 | FIQ|n900 | as said |
| 12:34.55 | FIQ|n900 | windows |
| 12:35.06 | FIQ|n900 | so no ssh (well, not easily at least) |
| 12:35.08 | dos1 | both with graphics, and with type of installation (binary) |
| 12:35.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | I WANT A TGZ! |
| 12:35.21 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer51: did you try to download that ~500MB file? |
| 12:35.25 | dos1 | maybe that's tgz |
| 12:35.40 | dos1 | (that one without "(online)" ;)) |
| 12:35.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | what friggin 500MB |
| 12:35.48 | SpeedEvil | FIQ: wander over to ##windows, and ask how to transfer files between two machines on the internet |
| 12:36.07 | FIQ|n900 | hrm, sounds like a good idea :p |
| 12:36.16 | FIQ|n900 | since most people in here uses linux |
| 12:37.00 | BCMM | i haven't read the scrollback, but is the n900 involved at all? the SMB server in extras(-something) is pretty good, imho |
| 12:37.34 | BCMM | kinda want it for my desktop, actually, since it's so much easier than samba for the basic insecure file-serving setup |
| 12:37.57 | BCMM | (and there's nothing wrong with that; you just don't share anything that you wouldn't put on your HTTP server) |
| 12:39.49 | DocScrutinizer | dos1: LINK |
| 12:40.02 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer51: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html |
| 12:40.09 | dos1 | s/51// |
| 12:40.11 | dos1 | ;] |
| 12:40.35 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: on the right side there is "Download version for" |
| 12:41.01 | dos1 | oh |
| 12:41.01 | dos1 | that's also run file |
| 12:41.03 | dos1 | :D |
| 12:41.15 | DocScrutinizer | yeah!! >:-( and selecting linux32 gives me that 25MB.run bullshit |
| 12:41.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart Nokia |
| 12:41.45 | apt | gets a hotmal account and SPAMs Nokia |
| 12:41.59 | DocScrutinizer | not good enough! |
| 12:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | retry! |
| 12:42.03 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart Nokia |
| 12:42.03 | apt | gives Nokia an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending Nokia to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple |
| 12:42.06 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@lns-bzn-50f-62-147-188-179.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 12:42.20 | DocScrutinizer | better |
| 12:42.57 | *** join/#maemo spiritd (~spiritd@188.75.128.2) |
| 12:43.17 | DocScrutinizer | IDIOTS IDIOTS IDIOTS IDIOTS IDIOTS IDIOTS |
| 12:45.32 | *** join/#maemo Pillum (~user@p4FF0C056.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:45.35 | Pillum | hey |
| 12:45.44 | Pillum | i wanted to free up my root space |
| 12:45.57 | Pillum | so i deleted some locale files |
| 12:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | please could somebody tar up that shit an up to RS?! |
| 12:46.11 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ^^^? |
| 12:46.17 | Pillum | but i messed up my system |
| 12:46.26 | Pillum | now i only see placeholder strings |
| 12:46.35 | DocScrutinizer | too bad |
| 12:46.36 | Pillum | how can i reinstall the locales? |
| 12:46.42 | DocScrutinizer | reflash |
| 12:47.25 | DocScrutinizer | or simply copy over from the disk image you made for sure, prior to such massive tweaks |
| 12:47.29 | Pillum | is there a simple command for it? |
| 12:47.37 | Pillum | lol unfortunately no |
| 12:47.58 | DocScrutinizer | ~flash |
| 12:47.58 | apt | [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 12:48.17 | DocScrutinizer | it's just one command line, starting with >>flasher... |
| 12:48.46 | LjL | wish the keys of the N810's keyboard weren't so damned hard to press |
| 12:48.56 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, I'm in a grumpy mood. Maybe somebody else has better advice |
| 12:49.27 | Pillum | personal thing or upset because of elop? :D |
| 12:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | nah, general Nokia idiocy |
| 12:50.01 | DocScrutinizer | offering a 500MB BINARY to install something |
| 12:50.14 | *** join/#maemo SouBE (~irc@ilari.stenroth.fi) |
| 12:50.32 | ketas | eloploplop |
| 12:50.41 | DocScrutinizer | which I only need for some 10k of .h they thought was a brilliant idea to remove from their repositories |
| 12:50.45 | rzr | :) |
| 12:51.04 | Pillum | lol |
| 12:51.16 | Pillum | man this doesnt work without a pc |
| 12:51.30 | rzr | DocScrutinizer: fell lucky they did not provide a vm disk image |
| 12:51.40 | DocScrutinizer | LOL yeah |
| 12:51.44 | Pillum | anyone has a dump of his locale strings folder? |
| 12:52.14 | DocScrutinizer | define "his locale strings folder" |
| 12:52.33 | rzr | Pillum: os ? |
| 12:52.55 | Pillum | yep |
| 12:53.08 | DocScrutinizer | rzr: fremantle I guess |
| 12:53.20 | Pillum | "/usr/share/locale" |
| 12:53.25 | Pillum | n900 pr1.3 |
| 12:53.27 | DocScrutinizer | though unclear which version |
| 12:53.31 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 12:53.40 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, no 1.3 here |
| 12:53.47 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise a pleasure |
| 12:54.19 | Pillum | why no 1.3? is there a newer update or didnt you want to flash 1.3? |
| 12:54.26 | DocScrutinizer | #2 |
| 12:54.41 | Pillum | lol |
| 12:54.44 | Pillum | whats the reason? |
| 12:54.46 | FIQ|n900 | has pr1.3 but no dump of /usr/share/locale |
| 12:55.23 | DocScrutinizer | tar- czf /usr/share/locale ?? |
| 12:55.26 | Pillum | would you please dump it and upload it anywhere? |
| 12:55.28 | Pillum | :) |
| 12:56.08 | DocScrutinizer | the syntax might need fixing |
| 12:56.25 | Pillum | btw do you guys know any good irc cliengt for n900 besides irssi |
| 12:56.33 | Pillum | irssi isnt showing some names for me |
| 12:56.37 | DocScrutinizer | xchat |
| 12:56.38 | merlin1991 | xchat :) |
| 12:56.40 | ketas | why? |
| 12:56.45 | ketas | Pillum: why? |
| 12:56.47 | FIQ|n900 | tar -cvf /usr/bin/locale i guess you meant |
| 12:56.56 | Jaffa | GAN900: Doing a few script tidy-ups so we can support multiple URLs against an article (and it shows the hostname). Do you still want an editor byline option against each one? |
| 12:57.13 | ketas | what do you mean irssi isn't showing some names |
| 12:57.43 | Pillum | isnt showing some names like my own name and other names if they use /me |
| 12:57.59 | Pillum | and the highligted names are in light yellow |
| 12:58.03 | Pillum | so i cant read them |
| 12:58.31 | pahartik | Pillum: Wrong theme |
| 12:58.33 | DocScrutinizer | FIQ|n900: well, I suggested -z for --compress, --uncompress filter the archive through compress |
| 12:58.56 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 12:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | FIQ|n900: well, I suggested -z for -z, --gzip, --gunzip, --ungzip filter the archive through gzip |
| 12:59.18 | FIQ|n900 | -cvfr even |
| 12:59.29 | FIQ|n900 | hm |
| 13:00.09 | Pillum | xchat is even less readable for me |
| 13:00.21 | Pillum | dark background with dark font color |
| 13:00.43 | *** join/#maemo skython (~Sky@p5B2231D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:01.02 | DocScrutinizer | Pillum: that's easily(!) configurable |
| 13:01.59 | Pillum | i didnt find any settings for it :D |
| 13:02.12 | DocScrutinizer | duh, you didn't |
| 13:02.19 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@adsl-93-57-223.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 13:02.52 | FIQ|n900 | settings preferences colors |
| 13:02.53 | FIQ|n900 | np |
| 13:02.54 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 13:03.00 | pahartik | Pillum: Edit "~/.irssi/default.theme" |
| 13:03.14 | DocScrutinizer | menu -> settings -> Preferences "[colors]" |
| 13:04.06 | javispedro | haha |
| 13:04.15 | javispedro | ACCESS is on the pdf you sent me yesterday about that LiMO platform |
| 13:04.42 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: ??? |
| 13:04.48 | DocScrutinizer | moo javispedro |
| 13:05.11 | javispedro | ACCESS, current owners of BeOS, makers of the cancelled-before shipping "Access Linux Platform" which ... used Gtk+! |
| 13:05.24 | Pillum | so, does anyone upload the locale folder |
| 13:05.51 | javispedro | moo DocScrutinizer |
| 13:05.53 | javispedro | et all |
| 13:06.27 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 13:06.28 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: can you help out Pillum ? he needs /usr/share/locale of 1.3 |
| 13:06.45 | javispedro | it's copyrighted.. |
| 13:06.50 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 13:07.22 | Jaffa | Pillum: Get it from the SDK? |
| 13:08.12 | Pillum | how? |
| 13:08.24 | javispedro | seems I also deleted anything other than esES |
| 13:08.27 | DocScrutinizer | simple, download and install ~5GB |
| 13:08.34 | Pillum | lol xD |
| 13:08.53 | javispedro | either way I was going to get a list of packages that made that folder up, but saw that is stupid: all of the packages are named *-l10n-<lang> ;) |
| 13:09.39 | javispedro | for ex skype's es_ES: "skype-ui-l10n-eses" |
| 13:09.45 | javispedro | so reinstalling those should help. |
| 13:09.57 | DocScrutinizer | Pillum: see what I meant with "friggin idiots are publishing 500+MB binaries for installing"? |
| 13:10.35 | Pillum | yeah i see |
| 13:10.45 | Pillum | i want meego so bad now |
| 13:12.02 | psycho_oreos | javispedro, curiously, why is locale copyrighted? |
| 13:12.39 | psycho_oreos | they have il0n packages under extras-devel which adds extra entities iinm under locale |
| 13:12.49 | javispedro | "they"? |
| 13:12.53 | DocScrutinizer | desparately googles and scans torrents for a file like ~/QtSDK.tgz |
| 13:12.54 | javispedro | not nokia. |
| 13:13.17 | psycho_oreos | points to zh-{CN,HK,TW} packages, as well as Greek, etc |
| 13:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | or even /Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim/usr/include/ISI/icpr82/pn_location_isi.h.* |
| 13:14.36 | DocScrutinizer | **BURP** |
| 13:14.41 | GNUtoo|laptop | btw about battery, there are calibration stuff in /dev/mtd1 |
| 13:14.50 | javispedro | lol |
| 13:14.52 | RST38h | heya javispedro |
| 13:14.56 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: AU SECOURS! |
| 13:14.59 | GNUtoo|laptop | is /dev/mtd1 meaning decoded or just the format? |
| 13:15.02 | javispedro | RST38h: saw the LiMO PDF? |
| 13:15.06 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: i'll upload it when it finishes downloading here :P |
| 13:15.14 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: you can also ask mickeyl to do that :D |
| 13:15.15 | DocScrutinizer | dos1: yo da man! |
| 13:15.20 | RST38h | javispedro: Yes, have been drolling over it yesterday |
| 13:15.31 | RST38h | javispedro: That is Samsung though, not LiMo in general |
| 13:15.33 | javispedro | RST38h: it seems to be the remains of the access linux platform |
| 13:15.44 | RST38h | javispedro: With Rasterman working on it |
| 13:15.58 | javispedro | yeah, merged with EFL (but still very much Gtk+ centric...) |
| 13:16.07 | DocScrutinizer | dos1: so I gather I don't need to inform Mickey about jonwil's great finding |
| 13:16.22 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: yup ;) he is already amazed and excited: D |
| 13:16.27 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 13:16.30 | javispedro | RST38h: don't the later slides example remind you of something? |
| 13:16.31 | RST38h | javispedro: they can be remains of bin Laden's own Akbar Linux platform, I do not give a shit as long as these guys deliver |
| 13:16.32 | otwieracz | Is there any easy way to create custom keymap for n810? |
| 13:16.42 | javispedro | RST38h: (hint: PilotMain ;) ) |
| 13:16.48 | RST38h | javispedro: They started the effort around the time Maemo5 was made public |
| 13:17.04 | javispedro | RST38h: ACCESS is the current owner of both the old PalmOS and also BeOS |
| 13:17.11 | RST38h | javispedro: Ah you mean the state saving stuff... It is optional, and there is just a bunch of ways to implement it |
| 13:17.53 | javispedro | to me, it this really ships, I'm sold. |
| 13:18.00 | javispedro | However, I was already sold on the Emblaze |
| 13:18.19 | javispedro | and it mostly never happened. |
| 13:18.23 | javispedro | so the precedents are not good. |
| 13:18.53 | RST38h | javispedro: Well let us wait and see |
| 13:19.12 | RST38h | javispedro: A lot of Samsung stuff never happens. Their S60 handsets (the first wave) never happened. |
| 13:19.15 | *** join/#maemo TheJ (~user@a91-155-149-78.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:19.26 | javispedro | (the Emblaze was a never-released ACCESS Linux Platform handheld, for the ignorant) |
| 13:19.43 | GNUtoo|laptop | jonwil, THANKS A LOT!!!!!! (for finding the headers) |
| 13:19.54 | RST38h | javispedro: They are really different entities, releasing this stuff. Can't compare. |
| 13:20.05 | javispedro | RST38h: dunno, the platform looks pretty much the same to me. |
| 13:21.58 | Pillum | ah crap |
| 13:23.54 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I'd assign the title "hero of the day" to you another time, for another mega brilliant finding - alas topic is crowded right now |
| 13:25.38 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@189-46-62-39.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 13:29.14 | RST38h | Fujitsu unveils world's first MeeGo netbook, world barely notices |
| 13:29.18 | DocScrutinizer | to whom it may concern: ancient N900 ISI headers found by brilliant RE hacker jonwil during archaeological research. Experts say it's a giant step ahead to free OS on N900 BB5 based phone |
| 13:29.42 | Pillum | wat is this ISI header about? |
| 13:29.51 | DocScrutinizer | talking to the modem |
| 13:29.57 | jonwil | These are the headers you need if you want to talk to the cell modem |
| 13:30.07 | Pillum | ah cool |
| 13:30.52 | RST38h | Pillum: It is written in ancient egyptian and lists hardware registers! |
| 13:31.54 | Pillum | lol |
| 13:32.15 | Pillum | jonwil: where did youfind the headers? |
| 13:32.25 | jonwil | In the Nokia QT SDK |
| 13:32.33 | ketas | can n900 finally be 100% open source? |
| 13:32.46 | jonwil | nope, its nowhere near 100% even with MeeGo |
| 13:32.53 | jonwil | GPU is still closed |
| 13:32.58 | jonwil | as is BME |
| 13:33.02 | jonwil | and some other important bits |
| 13:33.13 | ketas | umm what that bme meaned, again |
| 13:33.19 | DocScrutinizer | ~bme |
| 13:33.20 | apt | i guess bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME |
| 13:33.35 | FIQ|n900 | infiltrate nokia, take the source and flee! |
| 13:33.59 | DocScrutinizer | I'm hoping for a frustrated Nokia employee to do this for us |
| 13:34.02 | FIQ|n900 | even some MS guy managed to infiltrate it! |
| 13:34.11 | Pillum | infiltrate nokia, kidnap elop, profit |
| 13:34.17 | *** join/#maemo pari42 (~pari@117.193.66.169) |
| 13:34.20 | *** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f709672.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 13:34.33 | RST38h | How do you profit from Elop? Even Microsoft lost money on Elop |
| 13:34.41 | *** join/#maemo SiggyF (~SiggyF@80.101.78.195) |
| 13:34.59 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: BZZZ wrong! that's what they told you |
| 13:35.18 | eichi | someone tried maemo5 n900 with f-spot? i thought, it detects the DCIM folder defaults structure. but maybe, not the subfolders of this?! someone has an idea |
| 13:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: however the question remains valid |
| 13:36.23 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: An Elop in the house causes trouble and cost money |
| 13:37.18 | DocScrutinizer | and don't think anybody will pay for him to get him back, now that mission accomplished |
| 13:37.20 | Pillum | i really need the locales :( |
| 13:37.25 | *** join/#maemo Smith (~Smith@212.113.249.42) |
| 13:38.55 | RST38h | Doc: Who knows, maybe he will conduct a merger with Microsoft, and every single Nokia investor will get his share of the payola |
| 13:39.26 | RST38h | Doc: Hell, poor disenchanted Texrat will be able to hang on a golden cord! |
| 13:40.18 | RST38h | Doc: After all, Nokia does not exist to make you Linux handsets, it exists to make investors money, whatever the method |
| 13:41.05 | BCMM | i'm somewhat surprised about the MS shares thing - is there no legal conflict of interests with him making a deal with MS? |
| 13:41.21 | BCMM | (i mean, with the microsoft shares he holds) |
| 13:41.26 | RST38h | BCMM: Have to be a corporate ethics lawyer to determine that |
| 13:41.30 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: what they did so far is the maximum without awakening EU control instances |
| 13:41.37 | RST38h | BCMM: So, you are asking wrong people |
| 13:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | there will be no merger |
| 13:42.36 | RST38h | Doc: Which is also ok with me: will provide entertainment during long, boring work days |
| 13:43.05 | EdLin | they don't need a merger, elop is busy replacing nokia executives with microsoft employees and firing everyone lower than that on the foodchain. |
| 13:43.29 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 13:43.49 | DocScrutinizer | the hidden takeover already half done |
| 13:43.52 | Pillum | who has pr1.3 installed? |
| 13:44.01 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG has |
| 13:44.13 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:44.13 | Pillum | MohammadAG: are you there? |
| 13:44.23 | RST38h | Dunno, I think this is unnecessary fear and loathing |
| 13:44.26 | SpeedEvil | IMO - employing very rich people that don't actually need to worry about their paycheck is a bad idea generally. |
| 13:44.36 | SpeedEvil | At least at a managment level. |
| 13:44.40 | *** join/#maemo Lantizia (~Lantizia@erebus.seaquake.net) |
| 13:44.48 | SpeedEvil | They don't give a shit about performance bonuses, or ... |
| 13:44.56 | SpeedEvil | They're in it to make themselves look good. |
| 13:45.04 | SpeedEvil | Which is no the same as making the company look good. |
| 13:45.05 | RST38h | Rather than continue weeping, kicking Finnish corpse, why not start looking at alternatives and how Maemo experience can be brought to them, for cheap? |
| 13:45.05 | EdLin | RST38h: what, you seriously think they're going to make meego devices now? We'll be lucky if they make one of them. |
| 13:45.32 | RST38h | EdLin: I do not think. I analyze. Lemmings "think". |
| 13:45.43 | Lantizia | Hey I'm not going to add to the anti-nokia hysteria which I'm sure has gripped here for days now... but I am curious if maemo (not meego) will continue without nokia support and perhaps device-neutral in it's support... maybe even incorporated in to debian mobile. |
| 13:45.43 | Pillum | rofl thread at tmo "pornhub.com cant play videos" |
| 13:45.43 | EdLin | RST38h: for making a mobile phone, you need factories, workers, millions of dollars. Got a plan? |
| 13:45.52 | Pillum | reminds me of the guy who wanted a sex app |
| 13:45.58 | RST38h | EdLin: Yes. It starts with not making a mobile phone. |
| 13:46.13 | EdLin | ok then, mobile device. |
| 13:46.20 | RST38h | Plenty of these around. Many with Linux base platforms too. |
| 13:46.27 | *** join/#maemo Smith (~Smith@212.113.250.195) |
| 13:46.48 | RST38h | The UI you are using on your N900 is after all a bunch of apps, with some backends. |
| 13:46.55 | EdLin | on my n810 |
| 13:46.58 | EdLin | :) |
| 13:47.03 | EdLin | though my hd2 runs meego |
| 13:47.29 | Lantizia | Basically I'd love to rip the Nokia tag off my N900, see it as raw and decent hardware... and know Maemo will continue (as a debian initiative) for years to come for it and other mobile devices... how likely is that? |
| 13:47.41 | RST38h | So, the main question would be how to implement the bare minimum of these apps and backends and run them on an arbitrary Linux base. |
| 13:47.42 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, the copy of that QtSDK.tgz is the same as the one hosted here or different? http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html |
| 13:48.04 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: I note that there are still people developing for the openmoko devices. |
| 13:48.18 | RST38h | Lantizia: it is not. |
| 13:48.20 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: where on that URL did you find a tgz? |
| 13:48.21 | Lantizia | SpeedEvil, sure but OpenMoko still exists in a basic form |
| 13:48.26 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: The n900 sold several orders of magnitude more. If compelling open hardware does not come out. |
| 13:48.29 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: No, it doesn't. |
| 13:48.47 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: The company basically died with a large pile of unsold phones. |
| 13:48.52 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, none, I guess it isn't :) just trying to find the header file via google and found a pastebin link which detailed that URL |
| 13:48.59 | Jaffa | would love a smaller, faster version of the N900 running a bug fixed and less power hungry version of Maemo 5. |
| 13:49.06 | lardman | X-Fade: ping |
| 13:49.15 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: n900 sold _lots_ more phones. And will have a development community for some years. |
| 13:49.29 | Lantizia | RST38h, so you think Meego is dead and Maemo 6 is not going to be brought back? |
| 13:49.37 | EdLin | my n810 still has the occasional new software for it. |
| 13:49.45 | Jaffa | wonders about a mini-group going optimisation crazy in the CSSU |
| 13:49.47 | RST38h | Lantizia: dunno |
| 13:49.49 | Jaffa | ~CSSU |
| 13:49.49 | psycho_oreos | meego isn't dead, meego on nokia might be |
| 13:50.10 | FIQ|n900 | ~ssu |
| 13:50.10 | apt | methinks ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU |
| 13:50.12 | DocScrutinizer | duh |
| 13:50.14 | Lantizia | SpeedEvil, right but I don't want a development community that's just for one phone... it has a better chance of lasting MUCH longer if it was like android... device neutral. |
| 13:50.15 | Jaffa | psycho_oreos: MeeGo isn't dead *yet*, but it won't have long to survive unless another major consumer electronics manufacturer gets onboard in a big way... |
| 13:50.23 | RST38h | Jaffa: It is totally possible to implement Maemo5-like apps in QtQuick, on top of the same current Meego or maybe Android |
| 13:50.24 | EdLin | psycho_oreos: yeah, meego is going to live on at intel probably, they say they're planning to bring it to real mobiles - automobiles. |
| 13:50.37 | RST38h | Jaffa: As longas you can compile Qt there |
| 13:50.39 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: please teach infobot/apt about CSSU |
| 13:50.43 | Jaffa | Done |
| 13:50.44 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, guess I'll be interested in a copy of that :) wonder if dos1 has already finished uploading |
| 13:50.46 | Jaffa | ~CSSU |
| 13:50.46 | apt | it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 13:51.02 | DocScrutinizer | thnx |
| 13:51.03 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: For it to be device neutral, there need to be devices for it to be neutral over. |
| 13:51.08 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: And there basically aren't. |
| 13:51.11 | RST38h | Jaffa: It will not have all the backend stuff that comes with Maemo,but so what |
| 13:51.18 | psycho_oreos | Jaffa, though it has Intel and potentially some interest elsewhere.. one was also notably from fujitsu |
| 13:51.21 | Lantizia | SpeedEvil, sure any ideas what is a good thing to target? |
| 13:51.21 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: At least not over phones. |
| 13:51.25 | Pillum | SpeedEvil: do you have pr1 3 installed? |
| 13:51.31 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: Tehre are no good things to target. |
| 13:51.35 | Jaffa | psycho_oreos: How many devices do Intel manufacture and sell a year? |
| 13:51.54 | Jaffa | psycho_oreos: One netbook does not make MeeGo a core plank of their strategy like it was for Nokia |
| 13:52.08 | psycho_oreos | EdLin, yeah was telling that to Lantizia, well somewhat |
| 13:52.10 | SpeedEvil | Lantizia: There are no phones that you don't have to root (phones that you have to root means that they may go away next fw upgrade) |
| 13:52.36 | Lantizia | I was never interested in MeeGo... my interest has always lied in a ubuntu and/or debian initiative for a debian-based mobile orientated distro for 1 or more devices |
| 13:52.48 | Lantizia | And Maemo has the most talent to help lead that |
| 13:52.51 | psycho_oreos | Jaffa, no it doesn't but its too early to decide whether or not will meego die. I'm sure given time with the project being on schedule, it may get adopted elsewhere |
| 13:53.03 | EdLin | SpeedEvil: you don't have to root webos phones, fwiw. |
| 13:53.04 | *** join/#maemo SouBE (~irc@ilari.stenroth.fi) |
| 13:53.35 | *** join/#maemo kodomo (~gregor@g225042112.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:53.54 | Pillum | SpeedEvil: Lantizia psycho_oreos EdLin: do you have pr1 3 installed? |
| 13:54.11 | EdLin | Pillum: on my n810? no. ;-) |
| 13:54.26 | SpeedEvil | EdLin: Ok - there are some other phones - but none as I understand it with open 3D and other drivers. |
| 13:54.26 | psycho_oreos | Pillum, yes, and if you're asking about locales, I heard it was copyrighted, not really willing to risk sending a copy |
| 13:54.34 | Lantizia | I don't wanna see this a Nokia N900 with two dead OS's lol... but rather an OMAP3 based embedded device with lots of OS choices including a decent and regularly updated debian-based one... will rip the Nokia tag off :P |
| 13:54.38 | Pillum | lol |
| 13:54.40 | Lantizia | or melt it off - whatever |
| 13:54.58 | EdLin | SpeedEvil: webos uses SDL for 3d, and even can run x11 sdl because it has a standard glibc and other linux frameworks android doesn't. |
| 13:55.18 | SpeedEvil | EdLin: AIUI, no accel support. I may e wrong. |
| 13:55.45 | Pillum | ;( |
| 13:55.45 | EdLin | SpeedEvil: probably right, I haven't kept up with webos x11 development after I sold my pre because I needed a world phone. |
| 13:56.10 | dos1 | psycho_oreos: http://dos.openmoko.pl/icpr82.tar.gz |
| 13:56.11 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, fyi: http://pastebin.com/9Jes55Tg <-- it seems that maybe relevant |
| 13:56.20 | psycho_oreos | dos1, o.O thanks |
| 13:57.04 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p54946A4E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:57.54 | Lantizia | OK... lets say _none of this happened_ what was going to become of Maemo even if we did have a MeeGo Nokia phone... was a Maemo 6 still on the cards? |
| 13:57.59 | Arkenoi | Actually Nokia has enough resources to make any its phone completely open (replace or buy out any component for which the manufacturer is not willing to release public specs peaceful way) and it would be almost unnoticeable expense compared to overall mobile phones budget. It is just not willing to. |
| 13:58.19 | EdLin | Lantizia: no, why are you asking? |
| 13:58.35 | *** join/#maemo grenadejumpr (~quassel@cm-188.126.195.206.customer.telag.net) |
| 13:58.40 | Lantizia | EdLin, well now we know we are likely to loose Nokia support, is that likely to be re-evaluated? |
| 13:58.42 | Arkenoi | So all "we cannot do that, we do not own it" is just bullshit |
| 13:59.08 | Juozapas | 5 |
| 13:59.17 | Arkenoi | they kept weening this way since GEOS days, though they could buy GEOS out completely for a change |
| 13:59.45 | EdLin | Lantizia: sure, we could make a new phone os for the n900. They tried doing that with mer on the n810 to update it to have the latest maemo functionality, didn't work out all that well what with so much of the hardware still being closed. |
| 14:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | there are some arcane .h in http://dos.openmoko.pl/icpr82.tar.gz |
| 14:00.14 | DocScrutinizer | for those who are interested |
| 14:00.26 | Jaffa | EdLin: And because a working OS is nothing without the apps. |
| 14:00.27 | Lantizia | EdLin, I don't see the need for a "new" os... why fork what is already started? |
| 14:00.38 | *** join/#maemo Pillum (~user@p4FF0C056.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:00.55 | Jaffa | The best bet for the N900 is for lots of people to get stuck into the Community SSU, so we can polish the edges and meet our usecases better. |
| 14:00.59 | Lantizia | Just let Maemo continue with a proper constitution, no company behind it. |
| 14:01.16 | EdLin | n900 (and n810, etc.) forever! |
| 14:01.27 | EdLin | at least, until our devices die. |
| 14:01.29 | Lantizia | I for one NEVER liked the idea of rpm's - sorry old debate I know, but that's just me. |
| 14:01.41 | Lantizia | EdLin, not if eventually other devices can be supported by Maemo |
| 14:02.00 | Lantizia | Maemo certainly has more going for it than OpenMoko and ANGSTROM distro's |
| 14:02.09 | EdLin | Lantizia: if it's not a phone, nobody will buy it, and if it is a phone, better have big pockets brother. |
| 14:02.27 | *** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.171.17.46) |
| 14:02.43 | Lantizia | EdLin, I don't care about it being shipped on phones... I'm on about an alternative OS for your mobile device, Maemo could be the lead in that role. |
| 14:03.00 | *** part/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f709672.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:03.17 | EdLin | Lantizia: I'd like maemo on my hd2, it'd beat a half-baked meego which is what I can do now of that nature. |
| 14:03.23 | Lantizia | And with dalvik apps on it, you wouldn't even need to worry about apps working on it from big publishers so much |
| 14:03.54 | *** join/#maemo dominikb (~quassel@62-47-251-179.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:04.07 | Lantizia | Basically what I'm saying is if Maemo is still "tied" in some way to Nokia, lets untie it... make it completely independant and community ran |
| 14:04.25 | EdLin | Lantizia: now you got me a bit interested, maemo on htc winmo/android devices sounds like an interesting project. |
| 14:04.59 | Lantizia | We can be the underdog OS for people who want a true GNU/Linux mobile OS |
| 14:05.12 | Pillum | so, if you dont want to sent locale, is there a way to build locale-archive by your own? |
| 14:05.14 | Lantizia | especially for debian/ubuntu lovers who don't want crappy ipkg packages |
| 14:05.19 | EdLin | Lantizia: incidentally, I'm not just saying that because I have an hd2, but because it's a good target for an alternative OS. Namely, there are dozens of htc devices with similar hardware, and secondly, there's a large community on XDA that support alternative OSs. |
| 14:05.37 | Lantizia | exactly! |
| 14:05.45 | Lantizia | this doesn't have to be the end, it can be the beginning! |
| 14:05.51 | EdLin | lol |
| 14:05.53 | Lantizia | :D |
| 14:05.57 | kerio | nah, it's the end |
| 14:05.59 | EdLin | I'm not going that far, but it could be interesting. |
| 14:06.06 | kerio | maemo *does* suck |
| 14:06.16 | Lantizia | kerio, like fuck it does |
| 14:06.18 | EdLin | kicks the troll |
| 14:06.26 | kerio | ~busybox |
| 14:06.27 | apt | i guess busybox is the swiss army knife of embedded linux. It combines tiny versions of many common UNIX utilities into a single small executable. It provides replacements for most of the utilities you usually find in GNU fileutils, shellutils, etc. See http://www.busybox.net/. |
| 14:06.30 | kerio | ~optification |
| 14:06.30 | apt | i guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 |
| 14:06.48 | kerio | and those are the two things that popped in my mind right now |
| 14:07.09 | Lantizia | kerio, nothing wrong with busybox on an embedded device...and optification is more of a need of the N900 hardware NOT maemo |
| 14:07.37 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: you meant |
| 14:07.40 | DocScrutinizer | ~messybox |
| 14:07.40 | apt | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 14:07.45 | kerio | no, it's a stupid shit that was done because nobody at nokia could spend 20 minutes changing the boot scripts to only use /bin |
| 14:07.56 | kerio | like FHS specifies |
| 14:08.09 | kerio | it's most definetely not a need of the n900 hardware |
| 14:08.25 | kerio | there's also the stupid mydocs, the weird virtual directories that collect media files |
| 14:08.29 | kerio | pulseaudio |
| 14:08.32 | DocScrutinizer | Lantizia: BS, optification is an evil heritage from times where they didn't think about it |
| 14:08.34 | Lantizia | kerio, name me a more compliant GNU/Linux OS that has the popularity of Maemo for mobile devices? |
| 14:08.40 | Lantizia | I double *ucking dare you lol |
| 14:08.43 | kerio | i'm not required to |
| 14:08.45 | kerio | maemo sucks |
| 14:08.54 | kerio | i only use it because everything else sucks much more |
| 14:08.56 | kerio | but it *does* suck |
| 14:09.19 | Lantizia | loving your pessimism |
| 14:09.56 | kerio | why isn't the n900 using the hw codec for the media player again? |
| 14:09.57 | DocScrutinizer | Lantizia:that's pragmatism |
| 14:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | and I agree 100% with kerio |
| 14:10.20 | alterego | Meh, some of it is crap, a lot of it, platform wise, is pretty cool. |
| 14:10.22 | kerio | <3 |
| 14:10.27 | kerio | alterego: oh of course |
| 14:10.37 | alterego | If we could have a maemo meego hybrid, I'd be well chuffed. |
| 14:10.37 | EdLin | Lantizia: see this? let's get maemo as another subforum here, under (or above ) meego http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=531 |
| 14:10.41 | Lantizia | there are crap things with everything damn it! |
| 14:10.48 | Lantizia | doesn't mean everything sucks |
| 14:10.54 | kerio | yes. yes it does. |
| 14:11.10 | kerio | sturgeon's law doesn't make stuff exempt from sucking |
| 14:11.10 | DocScrutinizer | life sucks |
| 14:11.14 | DocScrutinizer | sucks |
| 14:11.20 | DocScrutinizer | cya :-D |
| 14:11.49 | Lantizia | EdLin, indeed I'd back that |
| 14:12.23 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 14:13.04 | psycho_oreos | maemo in its stock form does suck, but once its been converted to run on other forms, those limitations won't be a huge factor. Have a look at nitdroid and meego for example. All in their own partitions. If the base structures were changed to make way for improvements, its not impossible |
| 14:13.22 | kerio | yeah, we'd need a new build though |
| 14:13.45 | kerio | MohammadAG: provide a build of maemo that doesn't suck plzkthx |
| 14:14.00 | Lantizia | true but this new build doesn't need to leave the Maemo name behind |
| 14:14.15 | *** join/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156) |
| 14:14.23 | EdLin | is maemo (tm) nokia or someone else? |
| 14:14.25 | Lantizia | especially if Nokia are willing to part with the Maemo community anyway |
| 14:14.35 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 14:15.08 | Jaffa | EdLin: Maemo is a Nokia trademark. However, they've given the ownership of maemo.org to the community and have blessed the Community SSU as a means of delivering core OS updates. |
| 14:15.11 | EdLin | Lantizia: they might not be comfortable with that, even if it's open source intelectual property, it is intelectual property. |
| 14:15.35 | EdLin | Jaffa: that's cool, I like the idea of the community ssu. |
| 14:15.58 | *** join/#maemo hallyn (~serge@173-203-221-123.static.cloud-ips.com) |
| 14:16.15 | Jaffa | Already two closed bits have been replaced with open source, portrait-supported replacements. A good few bugs fixed and patches included to improve Modest's functionality. |
| 14:16.40 | kerio | it would also be good to have a decent swap algorithm and a base system that doesn't have half of the memory in swap at boot |
| 14:16.42 | Lantizia | Cool sounds like it's on its way then |
| 14:16.55 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 14:17.05 | kerio | also, REMOVE THOSE FUCKING HANDS |
| 14:17.09 | Jaffa | kerio: Indeed. Some low-level and framework optimisations would be cool |
| 14:17.11 | *** join/#maemo SouBE (~irc@ilari.stenroth.fi) |
| 14:17.15 | Jaffa | kerio: Err, you can do that already... |
| 14:17.25 | kerio | no, not completely remove them |
| 14:17.40 | javispedro | not? |
| 14:17.48 | Jaffa | You want to half remove them? |
| 14:17.52 | kerio | no, i mean |
| 14:17.56 | kerio | you can put an empty video there |
| 14:18.00 | kerio | but it'll still try to load it |
| 14:18.05 | kerio | and so it'll still require FUCKING PULSEAUDIO |
| 14:18.06 | Jaffa | There's an ini file |
| 14:18.08 | kerio | at boot time |
| 14:18.12 | javispedro | I'm sure you can probably kill the event.d file |
| 14:18.13 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-231-124-110-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:18.22 | Lantizia | http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/msg00428.html |
| 14:18.41 | Jaffa | kerio: Oh, so now you're objecting to the design of Maemo using open source software for audio...? |
| 14:18.48 | Jaffa | kerio: Perhaps you could clarify your rants... |
| 14:18.53 | Lantizia | I rather think a Debian Mobile base would still be handy for a Maemo flavour, a Debian flavour, a Ubuntu flavour... but apps work on them all |
| 14:19.46 | kerio | Jaffa: one of the reasons we need /usr/ in the root partition is that the boot requires pulseaudio |
| 14:19.56 | kerio | because of the hands |
| 14:20.21 | kerio | also in general i object to the design of Maemo using *pulseaudio* for audio |
| 14:21.32 | Jaffa | kerio: What would you use instead? Taking into account all the routing stuff needed for A2DP, speakers, headphones & call speaker? |
| 14:21.39 | kerio | Jaffa: alsa |
| 14:21.47 | Lantizia | pulseaudio is fine |
| 14:21.56 | Lantizia | and it already uses alsa too |
| 14:22.20 | kerio | the n900 takes more cpu for pulseaudio than for mafw-decoder |
| 14:22.25 | kerio | *than |
| 14:22.32 | kerio | it makes no sense |
| 14:22.39 | Jaffa | kerio: And you've got an ALSA package which does the same and takes less CPU? |
| 14:22.45 | kerio | http://alsa.opensrc.org/Dmix |
| 14:22.57 | *** join/#maemo merlin_1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 14:23.01 | kerio | so... yeah |
| 14:23.39 | javispedro | so... no, mixing wasn't even in Jaffa's requeriment list =) |
| 14:23.48 | *** join/#maemo Zhonghua2 (~John@192.100.124.156) |
| 14:25.28 | Jaffa | kerio: An API compatible, feature-complete ALSA replacement of PulseAudio for the CSSU would be great. |
| 14:25.47 | *** join/#maemo Pillum (~user@p4FF0C056.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:25.48 | javispedro | partially disagrees that changing something that deeply embedded would be great for a CSSU |
| 14:26.06 | Jaffa | javispedro: Well, I think my requirement of feature-complete and API compatible would rule it out |
| 14:26.07 | RST38h | Same here |
| 14:26.14 | Lantizia | eBay have free listing today... so considering packing my N900 in for Android |
| 14:26.23 | RST38h | YOu do not want to break the system, just fix the broken parts |
| 14:26.35 | EdLin | Lantizia: I thought you were mr. optimistic? |
| 14:26.37 | javispedro | Jaffa: this is can of worms I do not want to open :( |
| 14:26.38 | Jaffa | Lantizia: Weren't you just talking about new OSes and community development? |
| 14:26.47 | Lantizia | Sure I was... only if I know it's going to happen |
| 14:27.04 | Jaffa | javispedro: RST38h: Agreed. But if I'm living with my N900 for ages to come I'd like it's battery to be a bit better. |
| 14:27.09 | Lantizia | Otherwise I'll trade Nokia for Google |
| 14:27.18 | Jaffa | javispedro: RST38h: I'm sure some low-level devs would enjoy doing some profiling and fixing ;-) |
| 14:27.26 | Pillum | can someone please send me the output of 'locale -a' |
| 14:27.32 | dos1 | hmm |
| 14:27.47 | dos1 | how it came that i didn't know about community SSU? :o |
| 14:27.48 | RST38h | [whispers] For Tentacled's sake, DON'T try to keep him from it. |
| 14:28.06 | RST38h | Jaffa: Only if you know exact names of these devs |
| 14:28.21 | RST38h | Jaffa: Because stuff being open does not mean somebody is willing to work on it |
| 14:28.52 | *** join/#maemo _NIN (~NIN101@p5DD28064.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:28.59 | MohammadAG | kerio, a build of maemo? |
| 14:29.07 | psycho_oreos | dos1, word is passing around more slowly than expected |
| 14:29.08 | *** part/#maemo _NIN (~NIN101@p5DD28064.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:29.15 | Pillum | can someone please send me the output of 'locale -a' please? |
| 14:29.18 | Jaffa | RST38h: You like your low level hacking, don't you? ;-p |
| 14:29.21 | kerio | MohammadAG: combined+vanilla, yeah |
| 14:29.30 | MohammadAG | Maemo cannot be built or destoryed, it can only change from one form to another, such as WP7 |
| 14:29.31 | kerio | except with no pulseaudio, no closed bits and good partitioning |
| 14:29.32 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 14:29.47 | RST38h | Jaffa: I like being paid and being with my family |
| 14:29.51 | psycho_oreos | Pillum, http://pastebin.com/i8V05Wu7 |
| 14:30.00 | MohammadAG | RST38h, you have a family? |
| 14:30.07 | MohammadAG | I always thought you were 19 or sth |
| 14:30.09 | Lantizia | Any ideas what would be the cleanest way of removing the Nokia tab-badge on the N900? |
| 14:30.17 | Jaffa | Lantizia: Dremel |
| 14:30.22 | RST38h | Jaffa: Also like working on my own stuff. Hacking random pieces of community code is much lower priority |
| 14:30.25 | Lantizia | Jaffa, you've done it? |
| 14:30.27 | Pillum | psycho_oreos: thank you very very much, sir ;) |
| 14:30.32 | psycho_oreos | thought of metal filer |
| 14:30.37 | RST38h | Mohammad: No, I live in a dungeon etc.! |
| 14:30.49 | Jaffa | Lantizia: No |
| 14:30.49 | Lantizia | psycho_oreos, ah but would it be smooth? |
| 14:30.54 | MohammadAG | RST38h, ah, that's believable |
| 14:30.55 | Pillum | lol |
| 14:30.58 | psycho_oreos | Pillum, its modified, there's ja_JP as well as zh_{CN,TW,HK} on top of the standard one |
| 14:30.59 | RST38h | Jaffa: Something is telling me this order of priorities is pretty standard |
| 14:31.15 | psycho_oreos | Lantizia, no, but then you can probably get wet sanding paper to smooth it |
| 14:31.27 | Jaffa | RST38h: <shrug/> People scratch their own itches. |
| 14:31.33 | psycho_oreos | Lantizia, and no that was just a wild guess, I've not done it before on mine |
| 14:31.34 | Pillum | psycho_oreos: but its from n900? |
| 14:31.44 | RST38h | Jaffa: Yes, but it should be a pretty sore itch |
| 14:31.52 | psycho_oreos | Pillum, from n900 with a few added locales |
| 14:32.07 | Jaffa | RST38h: Not having a phone which I can trust if I'm not near a power point/wifi all day is a pretty big itch. |
| 14:32.16 | RST38h | Jaffa: I.e. your qualitative analysis is ok, but quantative may be flawed :) |
| 14:32.20 | Lantizia | unfortunately I think the Nokia word-mark is taller than the tab outcrop itself... so you've still have a bit left behind |
| 14:32.27 | Pillum | ah ok thx |
| 14:32.34 | RST38h | Jaffa: It can be fixed by buying a different phone. |
| 14:33.42 | Jaffa | RST38h: Which one? Bearing in mind all my other requirements... |
| 14:33.49 | Jaffa | (which you don't know, but could guess at) |
| 14:34.38 | alterego | sighs, the annoying thing is I think the MS Nokia thing will be a success. |
| 14:34.52 | RST38h | Jaffa: I am currently considering the Streak |
| 14:35.02 | alterego | Big lose for the FOSS world |
| 14:35.13 | EdLin | RST38h: the streak is pretty bad, actually. |
| 14:35.28 | RST38h | alterego: Independently from how good it is for FOSS, it will most likely tank |
| 14:35.31 | EdLin | RST38h: tho it does have good battery life, and is *big* |
| 14:35.41 | MohammadAG | alterego, they'll succeed for the first time |
| 14:35.43 | MohammadAG | they |
| 14:35.46 | RST38h | alterego: Unless Americans miraculously start buying WP7 phones |
| 14:35.52 | MohammadAG | actually bbl |
| 14:35.58 | alterego | I think they may |
| 14:36.04 | RST38h | EdLin: So, why is it bad? |
| 14:36.22 | EdLin | RST38h: dell puts horrible OEM customizations on it, for one thing. |
| 14:36.24 | RST38h | alterego: With much friendlier and feature complete Android selling in the identical form factor? No way. |
| 14:36.45 | alterego | After reading the awful US blogs, the general opinion from normal users etc seem to actually welcome the move. |
| 14:37.08 | RST38h | Blogs, as we know, do notconvert to sales:) |
| 14:37.22 | RST38h | EdLin: Apparently, their 2.2 Android update is much better |
| 14:37.38 | EdLin | alterego: someone on engadget noticed a disturbing amount of those comments were made by astroturfers with a microsoft network facebook login. |
| 14:38.03 | alterego | Hahah |
| 14:38.15 | EdLin | that's right, trolling for dollars. |
| 14:38.18 | jacekowski | astroturfers? |
| 14:38.19 | alterego | Oh, interesting. But then a lot of people use hotmail :P |
| 14:38.21 | EdLin | the latest corporate position |
| 14:38.22 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@a91-155-187-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:38.22 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 14:38.24 | alterego | I use hotmail ffs. |
| 14:38.45 | jacekowski | hotmail sucks |
| 14:38.49 | EdLin | jacekowski: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing |
| 14:38.49 | jacekowski | it's for microsoft wimps |
| 14:38.50 | dos1 | yup, Windows Phone 7 is not known by normal users, so they can't really say anything about it :D |
| 14:39.07 | RST38h | alterego: Still, maybe Nokia and/or MS come up with some magic trick to sell their stuff, dunno |
| 14:39.16 | dos1 | some of them are even thinking that it's all about Windows Mobile |
| 14:39.21 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-118-59.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 14:39.23 | ZogG | haha i have insider of some game porting company for mobiles =) |
| 14:39.27 | RST38h | alterego: Push it onto powerless corporate users, or tie it into desktop Windows |
| 14:39.32 | dos1 | or even Windows 7, that one from PCs ;) |
| 14:39.51 | RST38h | alterego: Or offer it for 1 cent with contracts |
| 14:40.13 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@g230055108.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:40.25 | javispedro | notes smartphone pricing is becoming agressive as of lately |
| 14:40.46 | RST38h | javis: too many virtually identical models, it has become a commodity |
| 14:41.08 | Jaffa | Price is the only differentiator. |
| 14:41.25 | RST38h | See WiinMo phones of 5 years ago, replace WinMo with Android, multiply sales by 100, and you get what we have now |
| 14:41.45 | RST38h | Many many relatively cheap, identical, mediocre handsets |
| 14:41.56 | EdLin | you can get an n900 new for $350 in the us, cheap for an unlocked unsubsidized smartphone. Only thing cheaper is some midrange android phones with worse hardware like the lg optimus one. |
| 14:41.59 | javispedro | RST38h: Android is the only mostly responsible for it; previously a sub$100 "phone" with crappy Symbian-clone (aka Nokla) or WM hand't a change. Now one with Android does |
| 14:42.07 | javispedro | *change |
| 14:42.10 | javispedro | *chance :( |
| 14:42.11 | RST38h | That Finn with his pants-pissing remark was rude but on target |
| 14:42.12 | BCMM | chance? |
| 14:42.53 | RST38h | javispedro: Nokia is also making many cheap S60-based handsets |
| 14:43.32 | javispedro | yeah, but I think that's effect (they're doing that as of lately), not cause |
| 14:45.23 | RST38h | maybe both... |
| 14:48.24 | javispedro | at this point my opinion is like alterego's, they won't die. but they will never see the same market volume they see these days. |
| 14:49.09 | *** join/#maemo merlin_1991 (~x@chello080109073084.5.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 14:49.23 | RST38h | for a company of this size, dying actually requires some effort :) |
| 14:49.25 | javispedro | the future in smartphones looks the same as the past. there will be a OS duopoly with one of them being Apple-like/1990'sPalm-like (OS-HW tied) and the other one being Android-like/1990'sWM-like |
| 14:49.53 | kerio | but nobody liked WM |
| 14:49.59 | jacekowski | 4 years ago nokia was only company selling smartphones |
| 14:50.05 | jacekowski | now they are smallest player |
| 14:50.44 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 14:50.47 | jacekowski | 2000 years ago there was huge roman empire |
| 14:50.53 | jacekowski | now there is small meaningless country left |
| 14:51.14 | EdLin | jacekowski: we still eat spaghetti |
| 14:52.22 | jacekowski | then there was polish empire |
| 14:52.27 | GAN900 | OMAP4 from LG. |
| 14:52.27 | jacekowski | same shit again |
| 14:52.34 | GAN900 | cries. |
| 14:52.36 | jacekowski | and later british empire |
| 14:52.37 | RST38h | jacekowski: I am sorry, who told you they are the smallest player? |
| 14:52.39 | jacekowski | same shit again |
| 14:52.44 | jacekowski | RST38h: facts |
| 14:52.57 | RST38h | GAN: Kneel before your new Korean overlords |
| 14:53.07 | jacekowski | RST38h: they sold less symbian phones in q4 than iphones/androids |
| 14:53.08 | Jaffa | GAN900: ? |
| 14:53.09 | Per_n900 | The future of smartphones is probably that smartphones will be your only computer, and the ability to dock it to a monitor and keyboard/mouse, and with an interface that changes to fullblown desktop when docked, kind of like motorola atrix. Atleast, thats what I think :) |
| 14:53.14 | RST38h | GAN: Bring some gold too |
| 14:53.37 | *** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod) |
| 14:53.55 | EdLin | Per_n900: the n900 has a video output too. ;-) |
| 14:54.01 | RST38h | Per: In the future, the smartphone will be intergal part of your gas mask |
| 14:54.20 | EdLin | just add a bluetooth keyboard, and voila, instant open source atrix. without the locked bootloader. |
| 14:54.46 | RST38h | jacekowski: Do you know the difference between words "small", "smaller", and "smallest" in English? |
| 14:54.48 | kerio | the n900 needs hd out |
| 14:54.51 | RST38h | Should I explain? |
| 14:55.24 | EdLin | kerio: I knew *someone* would mention that. ;-( |
| 14:55.54 | *** join/#maemo perolsen (~perolsen@ti0017a380-1018.bb.online.no) |
| 14:56.11 | FIQ | liten mindre minst! |
| 14:56.14 | RST38h | Meanwhle: Pandora Files For IPO |
| 14:56.31 | *** join/#maemo dominikb_ (~quassel@88-117-20-34.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:56.33 | EdLin | RST38h: pandora is the biggest spyware in the Android market. |
| 14:56.34 | Per_n900 | FIQ: exakt. |
| 14:56.55 | EdLin | RST38h: they put permissions up the wazoo for that one, and send all your data for who knows what. |
| 14:57.18 | FIQ | uhm |
| 14:57.22 | FIQ | why is it there then? |
| 14:57.28 | FIQ | (i.e. not removed) |
| 14:57.59 | FIQ | oh, ofc |
| 14:58.04 | FIQ | google loves sending of EVERYTHING |
| 14:58.08 | EdLin | FIQ: because google doesn't care, as long as they have done their duty and let the sheeple click on the "warning" just like an activex warning, and you know how effective those were. |
| 14:58.11 | FIQ | that's why |
| 14:58.28 | Jaffa | GAN900: Never had an LG phone, but if they can do a good, open, MeeGo experience in something like an N900 but better, with Qt, bring it on? |
| 14:59.47 | javispedro | has only two companies in mind at this point that could put out a Maemo-like experience.. |
| 15:00.04 | *** join/#maemo chinmaya (~quassel@122.171.17.46) |
| 15:00.15 | Jaffa | javispedro: ? |
| 15:00.21 | javispedro | not LG :) |
| 15:00.25 | Juozapas | name it |
| 15:00.41 | range | Yeah, but Samsung already has Bada and HP has WebOS :) |
| 15:00.42 | Jaffa | javispedro: Palm & Samsung spring to my mind. But Samsung's too successful with Android |
| 15:00.47 | javispedro | range: bingo =) |
| 15:00.52 | *** join/#maemo demute (~demute@c80-216-34-161.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:00.53 | javispedro | Jaffa: also bingo :) |
| 15:01.03 | Jaffa | WebOS looks very interesting. |
| 15:01.14 | range | But still rather closed. |
| 15:01.32 | Jaffa | I've started tentatively exploring whether or not our friends now at HP might be interested in offering Maemo devs a device programme |
| 15:01.39 | EdLin | range: what do you mean, webos offers a root prompt, which is more than you can say for an unhacked android phone. |
| 15:01.42 | range | That's my biggest issue with Nokias move: the 180° turning. |
| 15:01.51 | RST38h | Jaffa: Nice move |
| 15:02.00 | RST38h | Jaffa: If they will listen of course |
| 15:02.04 | *** join/#maemo _nicolai_ (~nicolai@pop8-872.catv.wtnet.de) |
| 15:02.14 | Jaffa | RST38h: Indeed. |
| 15:02.15 | *** join/#maemo chinmaya_ (~quassel@122.167.11.211) |
| 15:02.15 | range | EdLin: Oh. Last Pre I tried to check out used 5 minutes to boot, so I lost interest :) |
| 15:02.20 | RST38h | Jaffa: also check out that SLP .pdf from yesterday |
| 15:02.46 | jacekowski | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ86A1O9OcM&feature=player_embedded |
| 15:02.56 | Jaffa | RST38h: I missed it |
| 15:02.58 | EdLin | range: yeah, I hope some of the hardware they're putting it on now will reduce that. 1.5GHz on the pre 3 will help that lots. |
| 15:03.39 | range | EdLin: I actually like the Veer's form factor (WebOS Shuffle) :) |
| 15:03.45 | Jaffa | TouchBook looks nice |
| 15:03.49 | Jaffa | TouchPad, rather |
| 15:03.59 | EdLin | range: too small, it needs an adaptor for both headphone and microusb! |
| 15:04.22 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:04.30 | range | Adaptor probably means no sane headphone amp, which means *blergh* |
| 15:04.35 | dos11 | what amount of free space on / is needed for CSSU? |
| 15:04.36 | range | EdLin: Other than that ... |
| 15:04.52 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@GZMYXLII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:05.23 | EdLin | range: well, if you never use the headphones, and use a touchstone all the time for charging... ;-) |
| 15:05.52 | range | Need a sane qwert anyway, if possible. The Pre3 one's might work, I actually liked the one on my Treo 650 |
| 15:06.01 | *** join/#maemo kodomo_ (~gregor@g225036234.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:06.18 | EdLin | range: http://www.precentral.net/hands-on-hp-veer-s-ridiculous-headphone-adapter-and-clever-charging-plug |
| 15:06.30 | Jaffa | dos11: 10MB or so? |
| 15:06.40 | achipa | guys - it's small, if you care, you care, if not, not |
| 15:06.44 | EdLin | range: the pre 3 is supposed to be a good qwerty, biggest webos qwerty so-far. |
| 15:06.55 | RST38h | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/11x02138hmen.jpg |
| 15:06.57 | dos1 | Jaffa: i have 31MB and it complains that there is not enough space :( |
| 15:06.58 | achipa | it's like saying a swiss army knife is crappy because the tools are small... |
| 15:07.26 | EdLin | RST38h: intel's booth. |
| 15:07.36 | EdLin | RST38h: I'm sure they are embarassed. |
| 15:07.37 | RST38h | thank you, Cpt Obvious |
| 15:07.49 | Jaffa | dos1: Check the "Problems" tab under "Details" in Application Manager. See also http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Installation_FAQ |
| 15:08.05 | EdLin | RST38h: if you didn't want anyone commenting, don't post a link. |
| 15:08.14 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 15:08.15 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:10.20 | FIQ | http://www.msqt.org/ is that site even real? |
| 15:10.37 | EdLin | anyhow, I have to go for now. bbl |
| 15:10.43 | javispedro | no shit, it puts "intel" on the picture =9 |
| 15:12.56 | FIQ | oh, it wasn't |
| 15:12.57 | FIQ | phew |
| 15:14.48 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD_ (~tom@78.9.113.45) |
| 15:14.57 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa: up to you. |
| 15:15.18 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa: LG is Android. |
| 15:15.22 | GeneralAntilles | So, no. |
| 15:15.26 | *** join/#maemo qhubekela (~Sicelo@41.211.32.82) |
| 15:15.44 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: There're rumours LG's interested in MeeGo... |
| 15:16.00 | GeneralAntilles | I'd bet that interest took a beating on Friday. |
| 15:16.10 | Jaffa | Indeed |
| 15:16.37 | *** join/#maemo operafanWHM (~10286ABB4@61-230-70-186.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:18.21 | *** join/#maemo klmn (~Sicelo@41.211.32.82) |
| 15:19.27 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 15:19.34 | LjL | does anybody know of some free database of wifi geolocation data, that one could use on maemo with some hack to determine position? |
| 15:19.52 | LjL | i already know of wigle, was wondering about others |
| 15:23.32 | range | FIQ: I wonder why it says "This is a satire, for the real Qt website go to qt.nokia.com." at the bottom :) |
| 15:23.47 | FIQ | yeah, didn't notice first :P |
| 15:28.56 | alterego | has there been any official announcement in regards to Qt yet? |
| 15:29.38 | javispedro | many |
| 15:29.44 | javispedro | see the official blog |
| 15:29.48 | javispedro | er... nokia conversations. |
| 15:31.29 | LjL | what does it mean to get "Rescuing software update. Please do not interrupt." on boot on N810? :\ |
| 15:31.58 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (~alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 15:32.20 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 15:34.19 | alterego | LjL: probably means the device died during the last update. |
| 15:34.32 | alterego | So it's trying to complete the process. |
| 15:34.38 | alterego | Haven't seen it personally. |
| 15:35.58 | trumee | javispedro, Preenv doesnt list in Fap? |
| 15:36.31 | javispedro | trumee: preenv is not in user/* |
| 15:37.03 | trumee | javispedro, so i need to apt-get it? |
| 15:37.04 | BCMM | LjL: i've had a similar message on the n900, after powering off while an application was installing |
| 15:37.36 | BCMM | i guess it detects an inconsistent state indicitive of an interrupted installation and cleans it up |
| 15:38.06 | BCMM | (it wasn't me, it was an incorrectly-attached mount that pushed the power button for me) |
| 15:38.29 | javispedro | trumee: yes |
| 15:38.39 | BCMM | it's actually a really neat mounting thing, with a tripod attachment thingy |
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| 15:46.52 | *** join/#maemo Commi (~Commi@41.211.32.81) |
| 15:47.55 | Commi | list |
| 15:54.53 | LjL | why is geoclue not available for os2008 :( |
| 15:54.59 | LjL | it's there for 2007! |
| 15:57.32 | *** join/#maemo timeless (58730824@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 15:58.24 | *** join/#maemo SiggyF (~SiggyF@80.101.78.195) |
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| 16:18.01 | lcuk | does anybody know how to do recursive grep, but restrict it to only a certain type of file? |
| 16:18.13 | lcuk | grep -r "something" . |
| 16:18.32 | lcuk | is how its working now, but I would like to restrict that to just *.txt for instance |
| 16:19.46 | lcuk | :D sorted, "--include=*.txt" |
| 16:20.56 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-5-108-68.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 16:23.00 | otwieracz | What if I flash n810 with wrong device? |
| 16:23.09 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@212.200.198.1) |
| 16:23.10 | Venemo_N900 | otwieracz: ? |
| 16:23.30 | otwieracz | blah |
| 16:23.34 | otwieracz | wrong file |
| 16:26.22 | otwieracz | I don't know what the hell, but my n810 is again in reboot-loop. |
| 16:26.35 | Venemo_N900 | otwieracz: :( |
| 16:27.04 | otwieracz | I turned it off, then and and... loop. |
| 16:27.25 | Venemo_N900 | otwieracz: reflash? |
| 16:27.37 | otwieracz | Only idea. |
| 16:28.02 | otwieracz | So sad that meego isn't usable. |
| 16:28.06 | *** join/#maemo manaru (~sid@g225222172.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:28.15 | Venemo_N900 | otwieracz: yet |
| 16:28.30 | otwieracz | This project is alive? |
| 16:28.38 | otwieracz | (meego for n810) |
| 16:29.56 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.145.118.143) |
| 16:32.56 | timeless | otwieracz: pull the battery out |
| 16:33.15 | timeless | then pick an image you actually like and arrange to flash that |
| 16:33.57 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p54946A4E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:35.31 | Venemo_N900 | X-Fade: ping |
| 16:39.15 | *** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
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| 16:46.12 | _nicolai_ | hey, someone knows what kind of widget, |
| 16:46.40 | _nicolai_ | the brightness control plugin uses |
| 16:46.57 | _nicolai_ | for setting the brightness level? |
| 16:49.00 | jonwil | bah, GCC is STILL compiling |
| 16:49.12 | jonwil | the joys of running Gentoo I suppose :P |
| 16:49.52 | Venemo_N900 | _nicolai_: no idea, but you could see qwerty12's brightness applet |
| 16:50.00 | otwieracz | timeless: I have any other options than the newest diablo? |
| 16:50.03 | Venemo_N900 | _nicolai_: that probably uses the same widget |
| 16:51.10 | kennae | how can I disable the light sensor so I can lock my brightness to one static level? |
| 16:51.24 | kennae | I read about QWB widgets etc but isnt there easyer way |
| 16:51.35 | kennae | I dont have QWB and woudnt like to install it just for it |
| 16:51.36 | _nicolai_ | Venemo_N900, good idea, ty. |
| 16:51.47 | *** join/#maemo klasu___ (~klasu@a91-153-0-105.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:52.29 | Venemo_N900 | kennae: there is a topic on TMO about this |
| 16:55.09 | otwieracz | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php â I can choose only from this? |
| 16:56.26 | timeless | otwieracz: you do, but i'd probably stick with that |
| 16:58.16 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~lolloo@2.91.176.217) |
| 16:58.25 | otwieracz | So, newest Diablo... |
| 17:01.38 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 17:02.39 | *** join/#maemo peb (~peb@p579D506E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 17:14.55 | trumee | jonwil, gentoo is awesome :) |
| 17:15.00 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.9) |
| 17:15.46 | trumee | jonwil, i think luke-jr is running it on N900. |
| 17:28.05 | kennae | got the custom brightness to work, impressive |
| 17:28.10 | kennae | thanks Venemo_N900 |
| 17:28.27 | kennae | was easyer than I thought |
| 17:28.31 | Venemo_N900 | kennae: you're welcome |
| 17:30.07 | luke-jr | otwieracz: Gentoo |
| 17:30.35 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 17:35.37 | kennae | is there some kind of gallery for QBW widgets? |
| 17:35.44 | kennae | the thread is huge |
| 17:37.09 | Venemo_N900 | kennae: no idea |
| 17:37.55 | kennae | well, I dont really need anything |
| 17:37.56 | *** join/#maemo vi_ (~user@178.96.56.24) |
| 17:37.57 | kennae | just bored at work :) |
| 17:38.18 | vi_ | Nwork on a sunday? |
| 17:38.20 | vi_ | tsk |
| 17:38.22 | kennae | all I use with my phone is terminal and microb |
| 17:38.31 | Venemo_N900 | kennae: what's your work? |
| 17:38.32 | kennae | yeah, 12 hours night shift |
| 17:38.39 | vi_ | you on irssi now? |
| 17:38.42 | kennae | ye |
| 17:38.48 | vi_ | fukin badass |
| 17:38.57 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: ping |
| 17:39.00 | kennae | Venemo_N900: I sit and browse web |
| 17:39.03 | vi_ | i dont get pp. using xchat |
| 17:39.09 | vi_ | ppl |
| 17:39.09 | kennae | eat stuff and watch movies |
| 17:39.18 | Venemo_N900 | kennae: and you get paid for that? |
| 17:39.18 | kennae | been using irssi for 10 years |
| 17:39.20 | vi_ | it rapes the screen space |
| 17:39.23 | kennae | Venemo_N900: yes, very good |
| 17:39.24 | kennae | :) |
| 17:39.49 | kennae | im a security guard at a factory gate |
| 17:39.50 | vi_ | how do i direct a comment at a person with irrsi? |
| 17:40.13 | kennae | so I can pretty much use my time as I want |
| 17:40.16 | kennae | nothing happens here |
| 17:40.43 | vi_ | how do i direct a comment to a specific user |
| 17:40.46 | vi_ | on irssi? |
| 17:40.53 | vi_ | tell me kennae! |
| 17:41.04 | kennae | what do you mean by direct comment? |
| 17:41.08 | kennae | like query? or notice? |
| 17:41.16 | vi_ | notice maybe |
| 17:41.30 | kennae | /notice nick blaablaa |
| 17:41.30 | vi_ | where your nick is highlighted |
| 17:42.03 | kennae | you cant highlight others nick if they havent set highlight on for themselves |
| 17:42.16 | *** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@HSI-KBW-078-043-183-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:42.45 | vi_ | like when ppl respond to my questions my nick is highlighted at the start of the response |
| 17:42.55 | *** join/#maemo Commi (~Commi@41.215.145.1) |
| 17:43.28 | kennae | no magic in it, it does it automaticly if you have set highlight on |
| 17:43.29 | kerio | vi_: like this? |
| 17:43.37 | vi_ | YES! |
| 17:43.39 | vi_ | kerio |
| 17:43.47 | kennae | vi_: LIKE THIS?! |
| 17:43.49 | kerio | huh... write the first letters and push tab? |
| 17:44.00 | vi_ | vi_: lolloo |
| 17:44.05 | kennae | haha |
| 17:44.08 | kennae | new to irssi? :) |
| 17:44.12 | vi_ | kennae: woot |
| 17:44.22 | vi_ | kennae: eat this! |
| 17:44.25 | kennae | yes, it works |
| 17:44.29 | kennae | :) |
| 17:44.33 | vi_ | nice one, thanks |
| 17:44.34 | jacekowski | have you heard latest intell announcment |
| 17:44.43 | jacekowski | ehh |
| 17:44.52 | jacekowski | announcement* |
| 17:44.53 | vi_ | does it involve you being a disparaging dick? |
| 17:45.30 | jacekowski | intel will make meego smartphone |
| 17:45.54 | vi_ | will it be called n9? |
| 17:46.47 | kennae | would love phone thats 2mm thick, big screen, able to answer calls and use terminal |
| 17:46.51 | kennae | nothing else |
| 17:47.01 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net) |
| 17:50.16 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 17:51.36 | *** join/#maemo vi_ (~user@149.254.226.54) |
| 17:51.48 | vi_ | oops |
| 17:52.30 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:52.50 | *** join/#maemo Virca2275 (~vivkuva@41.215.145.1) |
| 17:53.05 | vi_ | woot |
| 17:53.29 | vi_ | so whos gonnae steal maemo source? |
| 17:54.16 | vi_ | kennae: have you got n900 otterbox? |
| 17:54.30 | trumee | jacekowski, you are referring to the poster in MWC? |
| 17:54.38 | trumee | vi_, i have an otterbox. |
| 17:54.42 | *** part/#maemo Virca2275 (~vivkuva@41.215.145.1) |
| 17:55.12 | vi_ | did you ever notice how sexy slim n900 becomes when you unbox it? |
| 17:55.28 | trumee | vi_, yes i did :) |
| 17:55.32 | kennae | vi_: no |
| 17:55.34 | kennae | whats otterbox |
| 17:55.47 | trumee | vi_, it looks fragile |
| 17:55.59 | vi_ | otterbox is the best case you can get for n900 |
| 17:55.59 | kennae | never used any boxes for it and its in a good condition |
| 17:56.06 | trumee | kennae, it is a plastic case |
| 17:56.16 | kennae | dont need one |
| 17:56.21 | vi_ | with rubber inner layer |
| 17:56.32 | vi_ | and really good screen protector |
| 17:56.37 | trumee | vi_, my only gripe is there is no car mount which can take otterbox |
| 17:57.13 | vi_ | well some of us just ham fist the shit outta delicate gadgets and need tough armourlite cases for them! |
| 17:57.32 | vi_ | surely somthing can accomodate its girth |
| 17:57.39 | vi_ | look on fleabay |
| 17:58.24 | trumee | vi_, didnt find anything good. so i remove otterbox when i drive which is a pain |
| 17:58.31 | *** join/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@cpe-188-129-57-250.dynamic.amis.hr) |
| 18:00.03 | trumee | guys, http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/live-from-an-evening-with-nokia-at-mwc-2011/?sort=newest&refresh=60 |
| 18:00.05 | vi_ | too right, getting the case of is harder than getting a blowjob from the pope |
| 18:04.02 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.145.118.143) |
| 18:07.06 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@189-46-62-39.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 18:10.29 | vi_ | trumee: still no mention of n9 though... |
| 18:10.38 | vi_ | trumee: still no mention of n9 though... |
| 18:10.50 | trumee | what the hell does disruption mean. |
| 18:11.22 | trumee | why all the fart talk about disruption |
| 18:12.05 | trumee | vi_, No new hardware today, they say |
| 18:12.11 | *** join/#maemo Zhonghua (~John@192.100.124.156) |
| 18:14.00 | vi_ | what a load of ass. |
| 18:16.38 | vi_ | a three ass race more like |
| 18:18.25 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 18:18.44 | *** join/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:19.09 | mece | hello |
| 18:19.43 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 18:23.26 | vi_ | does that mean ovi is dead? |
| 18:24.09 | trumee | vi_, yes think so |
| 18:24.55 | pupnik | i bet it costs $200k just to get the moulding done for a phone |
| 18:25.09 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 18:25.52 | trumee | NICE!. "are you a trojan horse" somebody yelled at Flop |
| 18:27.14 | chx | i know, "I am not Trojan, I am Canadian" |
| 18:28.10 | RST38h | "But there's one more that's worth noting. For all of the unique elements that Nokia's contributing, Microsoft is contributing to Nokia substantial monetary value towards Nokia because we're contributing all of these things." |
| 18:28.45 | RST38h | WTF did he mean here? Considering that he has just said that Nokia is paying for WP7 licenses? |
| 18:28.54 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@111.155.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 18:29.16 | RST38h | ""When you look at all of the value that we're contributing, the value transferred to Nokia is measured in the Bs, not the Ms." That's billions, not millions, folks." <=== Is he speaking for Microsoft or Nokia? |
| 18:29.33 | chx | he says tranferred TO Nokia |
| 18:29.48 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-52-215.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 18:29.55 | RST38h | chx: Then "we" are Microsoft? =) |
| 18:30.02 | RST38h | Is he working for Microsoft then? |
| 18:30.27 | chx | interesitng.... |
| 18:30.31 | chx | need to go alas. |
| 18:31.32 | *** join/#maemo bzhb (~quassel@2a01:e34:ee2e:9b00:20a:e4ff:fed9:e19e) |
| 18:32.16 | vi_ | dont go, the party justmstarted |
| 18:33.27 | piggz | lol, someone just asked elop if he was a trojan horse at the mwc |
| 18:34.43 | FIQ | hahah yeah |
| 18:34.45 | FIQ | saw that |
| 18:36.42 | GAN900 | Yes, yes he is. |
| 18:36.47 | kerio | how did he answer? |
| 18:37.12 | piggz | Someone just asked Elop if he we as Trojan Horse?A: No. But does understand perception. Conspiracy theory bye bye :) |
| 18:37.30 | piggz | Question: were you a Trojan horse? Board of directors reviewed and accepted the proposal #nokmsft |
| 18:37.34 | piggz | ^ from twitter |
| 18:37.40 | RST38h | Just because he says he is not, does not mean he is not |
| 18:38.09 | FIQ | idd |
| 18:38.39 | vi_ | norton pro: are you a virus? |
| 18:39.01 | vi_ | doomsday virus: (shifty eyes) um...no..? |
| 18:39.25 | piggz | maybe my skills wont be completely useless http://code.google.com/p/android-lighthouse/wiki/Compile |
| 18:39.34 | vi_ | ffs |
| 18:39.38 | vi_ | show me some ff |
| 18:39.41 | vi_ | ffffff |
| 18:39.52 | vi_ | fffff'ing hardware nokia |
| 18:40.07 | *** join/#maemo Juozapas (~qzaz@78-56-252-56.static.zebra.lt) |
| 18:40.55 | *** join/#maemo drj_cro (~drj@cpe-188-129-57-250.dynamic.amis.hr) |
| 18:43.12 | vi_ | hello? |
| 18:44.06 | *** join/#maemo Trewas666 (ilonen@jumi.lut.fi) |
| 18:44.50 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 18:45.14 | RST38h | moo javispedro |
| 18:45.23 | *** join/#maemo jarkkom_ (jarkkom@kapsi.fi) |
| 18:45.35 | *** join/#maemo Nitial_ (~sslaitin@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) |
| 18:46.08 | javispedro | moo |
| 18:47.20 | *** join/#maemo ecksun_ (xun@c-edcfe655.018-24-73746f48.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:47.26 | *** join/#maemo nhOmega (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
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| 18:51.55 | vi_ | what a shit offering at mwc |
| 18:51.56 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (9842d1fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.66.209.251) |
| 18:52.02 | vi_ | he told us nothing |
| 18:52.16 | vi_ | just more ass about how he loves m$ |
| 18:52.50 | vi_ | does anyone think they will unveil this magical meego device this mwc? |
| 18:54.05 | Venemo | good evening |
| 18:54.06 | pupnik | vi take it to #meego-bar |
| 18:54.08 | Venemo | MohammadAG: ping |
| 18:55.07 | MohammadAG | pong |
| 18:55.08 | Trewas666 | announcing a meego device right now would be somewhat surprising, but so was the whole sell-out to microsoft so who knows :) |
| 18:58.06 | pupnik | the n900 just got better-looking |
| 18:59.09 | pupnik | but "The first MeeGo device that will ship this year will take advantage of the Qt framework" |
| 18:59.31 | MohammadAG | this year = december |
| 18:59.38 | vi_ | take it to meego bay? |
| 18:59.48 | vi_ | take this to meego bar! |
| 19:00.06 | vi_ | (i am referring to my anus) |
| 19:00.40 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.161.195) |
| 19:01.06 | vi_ | MohammadAG: so what is the conscenus on a maemo meego hybrid? |
| 19:03.46 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.146.210) |
| 19:09.39 | cehteh | every handheld device i buyed got toasted so far .. first the apple newton, now the n900 .. maybe i shall buy a WP7 phone just to enforce its fate :P |
| 19:10.08 | GAN900 | Ah, Newton. |
| 19:10.10 | pupnik | lol |
| 19:10.18 | GAN900 | That was a bit of genius right there. |
| 19:10.32 | cehteh | to early for its time :/ |
| 19:10.39 | javispedro | cehteh: hey, I bought a m130 (then m68k handhelds got the axe), then a T|X (then Palm went offline until the Pre thing), then a N810 =) |
| 19:10.39 | GAN900 | Yeah |
| 19:10.43 | RST38h | Newton sucked. But Zoomer was really cool. |
| 19:10.52 | cehteh | and no frre os, no good linux conectivity so its rotting away |
| 19:11.24 | cehteh | newton was cool in many ways and still some concepts are way ahead of current smartphones |
| 19:11.34 | cehteh | global search, assistant ... |
| 19:11.44 | cehteh | the awesome gestures and clibboard interface |
| 19:12.00 | *** join/#maemo arvind_khadri (~arvind@unaffiliated/arvind-khadri/x-2237230) |
| 19:12.12 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@91-115-107-19.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:12.37 | cehteh | best (but not perfect) handwriting recognition so far (why this got never improved) |
| 19:12.49 | *** join/#maemo moshee (~moshee@c-24-16-155-210.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:12.49 | *** join/#maemo moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) |
| 19:13.53 | Arkenoi | Seems that handwriting recognition is dead, people prefer virtual keyboards |
| 19:14.12 | FIQ | i prefer physical ones |
| 19:14.28 | cehteh | sometimes i do .. or hardware keyboads, but the notetaking and sketching app was cool |
| 19:14.43 | Arkenoi | sure, but if you are forced to screen input method.. |
| 19:14.59 | FIQ | yeah, then i prefer touch-keyboard |
| 19:15.15 | FIQ | My old P1i had handwriting, but i didn't like it |
| 19:15.17 | Arkenoi | what i miss on n900 is ability to make combined text and sketch notes |
| 19:15.19 | jaska | then i throw the device away |
| 19:15.20 | FIQ | never did as i told |
| 19:15.21 | jaska | :D |
| 19:15.26 | FIQ | preferred the hardware one |
| 19:15.32 | RST38h | Maemo4 had pretty decent handwriting recognition in fact |
| 19:15.41 | cehteh | also speech recognittion .. 10 years ago a expected we will be 'there' someday .. but in fact its rather dead technology (it works but the support/killing app for it is lacking) |
| 19:15.43 | RST38h | as far as it goes of course |
| 19:16.00 | jaska | also it feels like it looks stupid to talk to a device |
| 19:16.08 | Venemo | RST38h: which was closed source |
| 19:16.08 | cehteh | RST38h: really? where? |
| 19:16.21 | cehteh | i never seen it (never had a n810) |
| 19:16.32 | RST38h | cehteh: They killed it inMaemo5 |
| 19:16.38 | cehteh | duh |
| 19:16.49 | FIQ | "Can i phone {{Person}} please?" "Sure! *starting a music app*" |
| 19:17.43 | FIQ | ^ something like that happened when I tried iPhones speech recognization one time |
| 19:17.51 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 19:17.52 | FIQ | conclusion: it sucked |
| 19:18.11 | cehteh | yes .. i really expected this should be solved someday ... |
| 19:18.20 | javispedro | RST38h: imho it was crappy, if you try to do continuous recognition you either do it pretty well (ms tablet) or don't and just do "block regonition" (palm) |
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| 19:18.55 | RST38h | javispedro: Maemo4 recognition worked relatively well for me, same as on Windows Tablet and much better than WinMo or Palm |
| 19:19.17 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 19:19.34 | javispedro | well -- surprising |
| 19:20.07 | pahartik | used to like PalmOS (up to version 4) input method |
| 19:20.14 | RST38h | I still didn't use it though, too many errors |
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| 19:22.30 | cehteh | btw is there any support gurantee for the n900/maemo about how long they will provide updates and leave the servers running? i dont expect that to be shut down any time soon but well, i dont think they will run/suppport it for years either |
| 19:22.46 | flailingmonkey | no guarantees |
| 19:23.03 | cehteh | prolly i should mirror the repository on my server :P |
| 19:23.10 | cehteh | just in case |
| 19:24.45 | FIQ | isn't maemo.org just semi-official? |
| 19:24.50 | FIQ | i.e. not hosted by Noki |
| 19:24.52 | FIQ | a |
| 19:26.35 | cehteh | who pays for the servers? |
| 19:26.39 | cehteh | (nokia) |
| 19:27.08 | MohammadAG | has Nokia announced the N9 yet? |
| 19:27.10 | cehteh | Registrant Name:Nokia Corporation |
| 19:27.34 | cehteh | MohammadAG: nah .. and i wont buy it, i'd rather boycott nokia |
| 19:27.48 | DocScrutinizer | there's definitely too much traffic in this chan - battery flat after 5h, awesome¡ |
| 19:27.57 | cehteh | (i didnt planned to buy it anyways, i hope my n900 will last some more years) |
| 19:28.02 | MohammadAG | cehteh, clearly, we know it's not Nokia's fault |
| 19:28.09 | MohammadAG | it's its new CEO |
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| 19:28.30 | cehteh | MohammadAG: yes/no .. even before they wherent really committed to this all |
| 19:29.37 | cehteh | from the start on, it was more a toy product, they never hold their promisies about commitment to maemo/meego, look at ovi, ovi-maps and all other announcements |
| 19:30.03 | cehteh | plenty of direction changes, allways pissing someone new |
| 19:30.20 | DocScrutinizer | FIQ: you suck ;-P Computers aren't used to hear a "please", nor a "can I...?" |
| 19:30.41 | javispedro | so it was a toy product, for two years it was marketed as a NOT toy product, but now it's bad to being a toy product |
| 19:30.50 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: hey if you implement speech recognition with INTERCAL then you need that :) |
| 19:30.52 | DocScrutinizer | CALL {{NAME}}, SUCKER!!! |
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| 19:31.18 | DocScrutinizer | call sucker, Mr? |
| 19:32.02 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p549FEE7F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:32.30 | norayr | hey people, anyone knows the difference between png shortcuts in Diablo and Fremantle? |
| 19:32.49 | norayr | I am compiling my application (photographic light meter) now |
| 19:32.56 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer, well, it didn't answer like that eihter |
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| 19:33.14 | norayr | and 64x64 png shortcut is shown smaller than others on n810 |
| 19:33.24 | FIQ | i told it to "Phone {{Person}}" |
| 19:33.27 | FIQ | to be exact |
| 19:34.11 | nox- | moin |
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| 19:38.18 | tybollt | MohammadAG: N9 - the Windows 7 mobile \o/ |
| 19:39.15 | MohammadAG | well |
| 19:39.28 | MohammadAG | they had a chance to fix their issues by announcing a MeeGo device |
| 19:39.39 | MohammadAG | this has to be by far, the worst year for Nokia |
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| 19:50.56 | flailingmonkey | apparently the meego device will not have hardware keyboard. the version with keyboard was "rejected by operators" for having too flimsy a keyboard hinge/slider |
| 19:51.17 | flailingmonkey | if only meego device is without hardware keyboard... LOL ridiculous |
| 19:52.42 | nox- | wtf |
| 19:53.08 | flailingmonkey | ahahaha |
| 19:54.03 | flailingmonkey | Flop says the announcement was "well recieved" in some departments of Nokia "for example, our sales department is very excited" |
| 19:54.46 | Trewas | probably well received in the sense that they are one of the few department not being axed :P |
| 19:54.54 | flailingmonkey | "In markets like the United States -- both sales and development -- are excited because they see the way back into that market." |
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| 19:56.08 | flailingmonkey | yeah, but I expect that the middle management will make collaboration with US cell operators impossible. same will happen collaborating with M$ |
| 19:56.37 | DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: >>citation needed<< the version with keyboard was "rejected by operators" |
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| 19:57.03 | frals | ofc sales are happy, guess is that they are still needed after symbian/meego is cut ;) |
| 19:58.31 | DocScrutinizer | frals: yeah, and need to sell less, to earn the wages for the colleafues set free |
| 19:59.10 | flailingmonkey | its only from TechCrunch EU: http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokiaâs-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/ |
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| 20:00.31 | flailingmonkey | they know that people will "understand" the Windows brand (even if its for Phone) vs. MeeGo, and no more talk about positives of open source. too much of a headache for sales drones |
| 20:01.07 | flailingmonkey | middle management will be happy to hear the end of all that open source hoopla too |
| 20:01.15 | pupnik | the USA model should be destroyed |
| 20:01.28 | pupnik | in europe there is cell-phone freedom |
| 20:01.45 | RST38h | got a feeling pupnik added "model" when editing that statement |
| 20:02.42 | pupnik | loll |
| 20:02.55 | flailingmonkey | I think Elop must be surrounded by lots of yes-yes people, and doesn't realize how much hate he has created for himself. not just sadness, real burning hate |
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| 20:04.50 | pupnik | Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: But it ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flying is? Well, I suppose you do, since you already know what I'm about to say. |
| 20:04.58 | pupnik | River Tam: I do. But I like to hear you say it. |
| 20:05.04 | pupnik | Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Love. You can learn all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as a turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels. Makes her a home. |
| 20:05.10 | pupnik | River Tam: Storm's getting worse. |
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| 20:09.11 | flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: a link to TechCrunch EU article about version with keyboard, http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokiaâs-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/ |
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| 20:30.04 | tybollt | MohammadAG: I read (these are probably rumours) that they actually had Meego HW all ready and developed, and it was all about announcing and starting production when they were told to scrap it all .. again no idea if those were rumours or what |
| 20:30.31 | ab | as there is nobody to confirm, these are definitely rumours ;) |
| 20:31.32 | nox- | but yeah i wouldnt be surprised if those operators there would just be scapegoats |
| 20:33.14 | flailingmonkey | tybollt: the unconfirmed reports of canned HW that was ready for production have been floating around. it doesn't seem unlikely at this point |
| 20:34.02 | DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: thanks |
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| 20:35.47 | DocScrutinizer | tybollt: "all ready and developed" is a rather fuzzy term, when it comes to hw massproduction. It's quite obvious there have been working prototypes, yes. If those were ready for primetime aka mass production is a different topic |
| 20:36.36 | SpeedEvil | At around 12:20 on the day of the announcement, it was mentionedinthepressconference thatt ehre were several meego handset designs that are being retargeted for wp7 |
| 20:36.46 | SpeedEvil | how complete these are wasn't mentioned. |
| 20:37.11 | DocScrutinizer | Actually building a shiny looking prototype is rather simple and reasonably quick, just unbearable expensive |
| 20:37.23 | cehteh | expects that they only roll out a half baked meego device without any future and then sell it badly to later use that as argument that "people did not want meego" .. |
| 20:37.31 | *** join/#maemo RangerBob (~Brian@pool-71-171-98-198.clppva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:37.33 | johnx | but not *that* expensive compared to Nokia's R&D budget |
| 20:38.00 | flailingmonkey | like those photoshopped "prototypes" shown off about a Nokia WP7 phone |
| 20:38.11 | johnx | flailingmonkey, from engadget? |
| 20:38.19 | SpeedEvil | The best of all possible worlds would be if the wp7 phones were all meegoable. |
| 20:38.39 | SpeedEvil | well - neglecting windows tax |
| 20:38.52 | pupnik | can i get a refund for the windows portion if i install meego? |
| 20:39.02 | johnx | SpeedEvil, hmmmm. Which basically means OMAP3 based with few hardware/firmware barriers put up between the user and 'root' access |
| 20:39.05 | flailingmonkey | johnx: after engadget showed it, it also showed up in today's little presentation made by Elop (Flop) |
| 20:39.23 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (9842d1fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.66.209.251) |
| 20:39.50 | Venemo | Jaffa: ping |
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| 20:40.48 | johnx | flailingmonkey, yeah, I thought by 'photoshopped' you were implying 'not real.' ;) |
| 20:41.08 | flailingmonkey | oh its not real, but only in the sense that it doesn't exist. just mocked up to distract people |
| 20:41.28 | cehteh | SpeedEvil: I'd agree why dont they just build good hardware and then leave the choice about the OS to the customer |
| 20:41.42 | cehteh | maybe even android ... |
| 20:42.17 | Venemo | why is it that the N900's modem consumes more power than it can draw from USB? |
| 20:42.22 | cehteh | no one says that they have to develop and support all this OS'es by themself, as long the specs are sufficiently free and drivers available |
| 20:42.33 | flailingmonkey | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/nokia-hints-well-see-first-windows-phone-7-device-this-year/ |
| 20:42.49 | pupnik | Elop is not stupid â he is 7th largest personal shareholder in MS, |
| 20:42.57 | cehteh | Venemo: because usb can only provide 500mA .. or 1.5A with charger conneced |
| 20:43.13 | Venemo | cehteh: and the modem consumes more? |
| 20:43.42 | johnx | Venemo, not by itself, but you *could* get the phone into a state where it's using more power than it can get from USB |
| 20:44.06 | johnx | full brightness, max CPU clock, SD card access, cell modem TX at full power |
| 20:44.16 | cehteh | pupnik: well we may talk in a few years about it, but i see that it is either a dead horse OR nokia becomes a windows hardware company .. both is bad for its currentl customers, no matter about elop's assets |
| 20:44.28 | Jaffa | Venemo: pong |
| 20:45.10 | Venemo | Jaffa: "The Community SSU already contains rewrites of two closed source control panel applets with the added feature of portrait mode support." -> portrait mode support? where? |
| 20:45.20 | flailingmonkey | and bad for its current developers |
| 20:45.35 | cehteh | yeah .. well nokia pissed everyone .. |
| 20:45.40 | johnx | heh. Somehow it feels almost poetic to be considering buying a WP7 phone with the full intention of never booting it into WP7. Reminds me of running linux on whitebox Windows PCs from the '90s :) |
| 20:45.54 | cehteh | mostly its developers and community, which is really a shoot in the foot for them |
| 20:45.59 | Jaffa | Venemo: The "TV out" and "notification LED" applets both support portrait mode now. |
| 20:46.10 | Venemo | Jaffa: oh, that's nice |
| 20:46.14 | Jaffa | Venemo: A few more and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=832478 can be a reality |
| 20:46.22 | flailingmonkey | pupnik: he'd have been able to sell his MS shares, but once they started talking about that partnership he could no longer do so. he isn't allowed to buy/sell when he has inside knowledge that hasn't been announced to the public |
| 20:46.22 | johnx | cehteh, and they trade that for everyone developing for WP7. I suppose they consider that a fair trade. Otherwise they wouldn't have done it |
| 20:46.24 | cehteh | what about an open BME? |
| 20:46.45 | cehteh | who of the devs here will migrate to wp7, raise hands please .. |
| 20:46.49 | flailingmonkey | he'll get a big chunk of Nokia stock, so he will have to keep Nokia afloat for a while |
| 20:47.07 | Venemo | johnx: "considering buying a WP7 phone with the full intention of never booting it into WP7" -> no need to. there'll be better alternatives by then |
| 20:47.28 | Venemo | cehteh: I will migrate to MeeGo :P |
| 20:47.33 | johnx | cehteh, I think this channel tends to be linux fans, not nokia fans. These people will go where Linux is (maybe some to Android) |
| 20:47.36 | cehteh | for a consumer there might be not that big difference (while i still think smartphone consumers think before they buy and have reasons for their choice) |
| 20:48.14 | cehteh | but for a linux based developer community (unless you run a shop which already does ios apps or so) its very likely a no-go |
| 20:48.23 | pupnik | who else has a community |
| 20:48.38 | cehteh | android is not linux and not free (for a lot reasons) |
| 20:48.56 | johnx | Venemo, I know, but it seems so ... nostalgic in a way. "The more things change, the more they stay the same." That kind of thing |
| 20:49.01 | Jaffa | pupnik: WebOS has a bit of one |
| 20:49.06 | Venemo | johnx: :) |
| 20:49.07 | wmarone | well, it's Linux but not GNU/Linux |
| 20:49.08 | cehteh | i bet you could port dalvik to other kernels |
| 20:49.12 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:49.17 | Venemo | cehteh: see 'alien dalvik' |
| 20:49.29 | cehteh | Venemo: isnt that still linux? |
| 20:49.32 | johnx | cehteh, "Android is not linux" -> That's why I didn't say it was ... |
| 20:49.47 | Venemo | cehteh: yes, but it doesn't need the android crap |
| 20:49.47 | Jaffa | johnx: Correct. I don't care about Nokia (apart from some of the people I've come to know), but I did care about the platform which met my usecases best :-/ |
| 20:49.54 | cehteh | but really on android there is a linux kernel somewhere .. but there is no free choice of tools |
| 20:50.09 | Venemo | Jaffa: 100% agreed |
| 20:50.11 | Venemo | cehteh: yeah |
| 20:50.29 | cehteh | yes .. my first thought where also about the linux people i know and work there |
| 20:50.41 | BCMM | wmarone: it isn't even linux... it's an increasingly incompatible fork of the linux kernel |
| 20:50.44 | johnx | cehteh, kinda. but it's gonna be full of drivers that you can't really use with a normal distro |
| 20:51.09 | RST38h | and the reason for this discrepancy? |
| 20:51.30 | cehteh | when my n900 dies someday i consider the next 'free, open' phone no matter who produces it |
| 20:51.30 | Venemo | BCMM: 100% agreed |
| 20:51.35 | flailingmonkey | the really concerning issue is that Nokia's approach to open source will soon by like Microsoft's approach to open souce: an unfunny joke |
| 20:51.56 | Venemo | flailingmonkey: :( |
| 20:52.03 | johnx | RST38h, errr? are you asking why people write crappy drivers? |
| 20:52.12 | cehteh | well and with the gta04 announed i bite in my ass .. never expected that it gets an upgrade path, thats kindof awesome .. even if its ugly as hell |
| 20:52.26 | pupnik | BCMM: increasingly? can't it be merged? |
| 20:52.39 | RST38h | johnx: Yes, I am asking if there is a specific reason to write stuff based on linux kernel but incompatible with linux base |
| 20:52.46 | wmarone | cehteh: gta04 is a non-starter if it's behind the times in terms of connectivity like the previous hardware was |
| 20:53.04 | cehteh | iirc they got decent hardware now |
| 20:53.13 | wmarone | RST38h: control, obviously |
| 20:53.20 | cehteh | umts, faster cpu than the n900, dunno about ram |
| 20:53.22 | *** join/#maemo admiral0 (~admiral0@151.61.33.81) |
| 20:53.24 | RST38h | wmarone: what control? |
| 20:53.32 | admiral0 | hi can anybody help me? |
| 20:53.36 | wmarone | RST38h: the control google has, to take it where they want to |
| 20:53.40 | cehteh | i dont have a gta02 so i didnt investigated it, but it looks quite cool by now |
| 20:53.41 | admiral0 | i almost bricked my n900 |
| 20:53.43 | wmarone | and to act unilaterally |
| 20:53.48 | RST38h | mhm |
| 20:53.53 | flailingmonkey | Venemo: but the middle management will be relieved. open source/development was way too uncomfortable for them =P |
| 20:54.04 | admiral0 | installed nitdroid, but have a custom kernel |
| 20:54.07 | *** join/#maemo silbo (~quassel@90.132.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 20:54.19 | admiral0 | and have to edit multiboot file |
| 20:54.27 | norayr | hey people, and what about "maximize" button on n810? what it does? what it sends to the applications, because my application does not go fullscreen when I press that button |
| 20:54.29 | Venemo | flailingmonkey: yeah, although some people did understand it, like Ari Jaaksi |
| 20:54.34 | admiral0 | where does multiboot search kernels? |
| 20:54.38 | johnx | RST38h, Getting stuff into mainline is too longterm of a goal for companies to be able to approach with rationality. So they right drivers that are quick hacks but are never of the quality required to get into mainline. They hack up anything in their path, not worrying about whether it breaks other drivers or doesn't work on different architecture |
| 20:55.09 | flailingmonkey | Venemo: and it seems they saw the writing on the wall. time for new Finnish phone company? :) |
| 20:55.10 | RST38h | johnx:this should fuck them up later in the development cycle though |
| 20:55.17 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: do you know how much ram the gta04 will have? |
| 20:55.25 | RST38h | as maintenance costs become too high |
| 20:55.26 | Venemo | flailingmonkey: :) |
| 20:55.55 | johnx | RST38h, it does. that's probably part of why some phones don't get newer versions of android. It gets too expensive to forward port the drivers |
| 20:56.09 | johnx | anyways, off now :) cleaning ... |
| 20:56.15 | cehteh | well .. how about an actual kernel for the n900? |
| 20:56.24 | cehteh | zram will be awesome :P |
| 20:58.07 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I seem to recall they don't know yet. Depending on what they can get |
| 20:58.48 | cehteh | 1GB would be extremely awesome .. but i dont really expect that |
| 21:00.46 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.161.195) |
| 21:01.14 | dangergrrl | oh wow, this is an active channel :) |
| 21:01.45 | norayr | let me return to my n810 question :) |
| 21:02.17 | norayr | so I've prepared n810 port of my app |
| 21:02.24 | norayr | I was using it on n900 before |
| 21:02.51 | norayr | By default I have made 800x480 screen size, so on n810 right part of the app is not seen |
| 21:03.11 | norayr | And when I try to press the maximize-like button |
| 21:03.27 | norayr | which is first left on the top of the n810 |
| 21:03.40 | norayr | it does not maximize, because I do not know what to do in order to maximize it |
| 21:03.47 | norayr | I mean which kind of signal it sends |
| 21:03.54 | dangergrrl | why do they ship the n900 with such a small filesystem for programs? |
| 21:04.21 | norayr | That was one question, and another one - my 64x64 png icon which worked well on Fremantle |
| 21:04.29 | Venemo | dangergrrl: you can resize the partitions if you wanna |
| 21:04.34 | dangergrrl | i know |
| 21:04.39 | dangergrrl | but it's a chore |
| 21:04.41 | norayr | looks small if compared with other icons in the application menu on n810 |
| 21:04.44 | Jaffa | norayr: 48x48 for apps menu on Diablo |
| 21:05.04 | norayr | Jaffa: thanks |
| 21:05.25 | dangergrrl | i actually bought it to be my main computer while travelling and camping and such |
| 21:05.35 | *** join/#maemo bman (~midkniht@h177.144.255.206.cable.pnbl.cablelynx.com) |
| 21:05.38 | bman | boo |
| 21:05.43 | dangergrrl | :) |
| 21:05.47 | DocScrutinizer | dangergrrl: see |
| 21:05.49 | Venemo | bman: boo to you too |
| 21:05.52 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 21:05.52 | apt | i guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 |
| 21:06.01 | bman | howdy |
| 21:06.21 | DocScrutinizer | howdy bman |
| 21:06.31 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 21:06.46 | bman | hows everything |
| 21:06.49 | dangergrrl | i'm kinda curious if anyone actually does development for the n900 on the n900 itself? |
| 21:07.00 | DocScrutinizer | yes, some do |
| 21:07.09 | bman | i did dev work on my n800 with my bluetooth keyboard |
| 21:07.17 | norayr | dangergrrl: I am |
| 21:07.18 | bman | but touchscreen and coding didnt go well |
| 21:07.21 | Venemo | dangergrrl: I do only testing with the play button in Qt Creator |
| 21:07.23 | norayr | dangergrrl: I am doing |
| 21:07.29 | cehteh | i consider that too, put the development tools in a chroot on the µSD |
| 21:07.40 | norayr | dangergrrl: actually I am compiling it, changing the code a little |
| 21:07.51 | norayr | most of the code I write and test on a desktop |
| 21:07.56 | cehteh | for small things and scripting language development that should be fairly sufficent |
| 21:08.04 | cehteh | kernel compiles prolly suck a bit :P |
| 21:08.11 | dangergrrl | and is nokia dropping linux as part of the microsoft deal? |
| 21:08.13 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.161.195) |
| 21:08.18 | norayr | because maemo is basicly Linux, I can write portable code which will run on desktop as well |
| 21:08.21 | Venemo | dangergrrl: not entirely |
| 21:09.06 | dangergrrl | i'm kinda disappointed that meego is not language neutral already |
| 21:09.20 | Venemo | dangergrrl: what makes you think it is |
| 21:09.31 | norayr | Jaffa: do you remember n810 Diablo left bar size? I mean the most easy solution is to shorten my application |
| 21:09.44 | Venemo | norayr: just use the layout manager |
| 21:09.58 | dangergrrl | maemo is language neutral, you can write gtk apps in any programming language |
| 21:10.34 | Venemo | dangergrrl: you can for meego too, as long as you have a compiler for it |
| 21:11.03 | dangergrrl | i'm an old systems programmer, i don't like c++ or java, i like c |
| 21:11.14 | Venemo | dangergrrl: so then program in C |
| 21:11.20 | dangergrrl | does qt even have c bindings? |
| 21:11.36 | norayr | dangergrrl: meego has GTK |
| 21:11.39 | Venemo | dangergrrl: not that I know of. but you can use Gtk too |
| 21:11.48 | norayr | dangergrrl: for sure |
| 21:11.49 | dangergrrl | oh, i thought they dropped gtk |
| 21:11.58 | Venemo | dangergrrl: not really |
| 21:12.03 | norayr | dangergrrl: no, if I search I can find a couple of proofs |
| 21:12.11 | wmarone | it's not part of the core build, but it can be installed |
| 21:12.26 | dangergrrl | oh, then i'm cool with it :) |
| 21:12.28 | Venemo | http://blogs.gnome.org/foundation/2010/10/13/gtkmeego-handset-integration-work-call-for-bids/ http://blogs.gnome.org/foundation/2011/01/17/gtk-meego-handset-bidders-selected/ |
| 21:12.37 | Venemo | dangergrrl: ^ |
| 21:12.43 | dangergrrl | can't afford a 32g microsd card right now though |
| 21:13.03 | dangergrrl | poor :( |
| 21:13.12 | Venemo | dangergrrl: you can install on eMMC |
| 21:13.28 | dangergrrl | i do want to try meego though |
| 21:13.48 | Venemo | dangergrrl: you can install it on N900's eMMC |
| 21:14.48 | *** join/#maemo sid_ (~sid@g230087249.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:15.03 | bman | pimpin the tor network today |
| 21:15.04 | bman | :) |
| 21:15.46 | *** join/#maemo sid (~sid@g230087249.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:24.31 | DocScrutinizer | 16G uSD should suffice |
| 21:24.43 | *** join/#maemo jevin (~jevin@aae-105-20.dhcp.ecn.purdue.edu) |
| 21:26.14 | kerio | you mean µSD |
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| 21:37.35 | kerio | so... elop is the 8th largest individual M$ shareholder |
| 21:37.42 | kerio | is anyone surprised? |
| 21:39.20 | dangergrrl | i dunno who elop is |
| 21:40.05 | nox- | i guess `ms puppet' fits |
| 21:40.11 | *** join/#maemo mw22 (~chatzilla@s529d7e89.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 21:41.18 | kerio | puppets don't make a shitton of money for themselves |
| 21:41.29 | nox- | heh |
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| 21:46.05 | andre__ | kerio: so... you believe something posted on a random website |
| 21:46.13 | andre__ | is anyone surprised? |
| 21:46.33 | andre__ | (oops, wrong copy and paste) ;-) |
| 21:46.40 | kerio | reading reddit titles is all i need |
| 21:47.16 | andre__ | good luck with finding out the difference between fiction and reality then... |
| 21:47.49 | MohammadAG | kthxbye lol andre__ |
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| 21:48.44 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 21:49.18 | andre__ | MohammadAG: sorry, way too much bullshit recently (IRC, Mail, interwebs) |
| 21:49.36 | MohammadAG | indeed |
| 21:51.32 | andre__ | ...reminds me of Naked Gun 1 when the fireworks shop explodes and the policeman in front tells the rubbernecks "Nothing to see, pass on!" ;-) |
| 21:52.28 | Venemo | andre__: :) |
| 21:52.32 | *** join/#maemo nox-- (noident@p549FF9ED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:52.48 | Venemo | andre__: how do you feel about friday's news? |
| 21:53.26 | jacekowski | rubbernecks should die |
| 21:53.29 | jacekowski | esspecialy on motorways |
| 21:54.11 | johnx | jacekowski, thanks to modern safety equipment in cars they tend to just crash and be the subject for other rubberneckers |
| 21:54.13 | andre__ | Venemo: good question... https://identi.ca/notice/64258084 maybe :-P |
| 21:54.43 | Venemo | andre__: yeah, I agree with you |
| 21:55.41 | andre__ | personally I don't see how adapting to yet another platform fixes the internal organization structure problems that obviously hinder the "Time To Market" process |
| 21:56.05 | Venemo | andre__: yeah, me neither |
| 21:56.51 | Venemo | andre__: conclusion: "Time To Market" didn't play a role in this decision |
| 21:56.51 | andre__ | but I only studied Business, so I don't have to understand this</irony> |
| 21:56.59 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.145.118.143) |
| 21:57.01 | Venemo | andre__: :) |
| 22:00.54 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@5355B9B3.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
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| 22:10.57 | jonwil | well my new SIM just became active so I now have tcpdump dumps containing cell broadcast SMS messages from 2 different carrriers |
| 22:11.10 | jonwil | If I could just get this !#$%$!@# Wireshark plugin to compile I could analyze them |
| 22:11.11 | MohammadAG | meh, latest natty kernel fails to resume from standby |
| 22:11.55 | *** join/#maemo Ken-Young (~Ken@pool-68-160-8-200.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:12.38 | jacekowski | as i said CB messages reach userland |
| 22:12.41 | jacekowski | and then probably dbus |
| 22:13.25 | jonwil | yes I know that |
| 22:13.59 | jonwil | I am trying to examine these packet captures to match what I see to the phonet specs so I can then follow the data as it gets to userland and then to dbus |
| 22:14.11 | jonwil | to try and figure out why my IncomingCBS dbus test app doesnt work |
| 22:14.20 | dangergrrl | yo0u know i have my n900 for two months before i bought a sim card and cell service for it |
| 22:14.26 | jonwil | anyone here know who Tyson Key is? |
| 22:14.30 | dangergrrl | s/have/had |
| 22:19.59 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:20.47 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder why my Nokia 6210 doubles power consumption when enabling SMS-CB |
| 22:21.31 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:21.43 | jonwil | on the N900 they seem to be always enabled with no way to disable them |
| 22:24.25 | DocScrutinizer | well, BB5 needing ~5mA for standby is good enough anyway, so probably just no need to disable sms-cb |
| 22:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | for 6210 my idea about that always been that RX can't go sleep when listening for sms-cb |
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| 22:30.08 | jonwil | bah, stupid wireshark plugin |
| 22:32.11 | *** join/#maemo linuxplatform (~fedora@188.148.116.74) |
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| 22:45.45 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: you seen last comment in bug 4874 ? |
| 22:45.47 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/4874 Publically document CAL config entries in /dev/mtd1 config area |
| 22:48.24 | jonwil | Someone should adapt that code in some way and use it to replace the closed-source libcal dependancy on MeeGo |
| 22:48.36 | jonwil | shouldn't be that hard to make it API compatible with libcal |
| 22:51.27 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@81.200.10.88) |
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| 23:01.03 | jonwil | hmmm, well I have a low level packet dump of a cell brocast SMS message |
| 23:01.18 | jonwil | i.e. SMS_GSM_CB_ROUTING_NTF or whatever it is |
| 23:03.35 | jonwil | but now I need to figure out how to decode what I am looking at |
| 23:05.10 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 23:10.26 | norayr | I was testing my deb packages by installing them from the commandline. |
| 23:10.40 | norayr | what does it mean, if Application Manager says "incompatible package" ? |
| 23:10.57 | norayr | It shows the description, however. |
| 23:13.38 | javispedro | "incompatible package" |
| 23:13.43 | javispedro | it might mean a lot of things |
| 23:13.56 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-103.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 23:13.57 | javispedro | most common: package category is not user/* |
| 23:14.06 | Venemo | heh. |
| 23:14.41 | javispedro | see http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging/Guidelines and specially http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Fremantle_application_categories |
| 23:14.59 | Venemo | someone on TMO said that the community should make their own phones by buying a pandaboard/whatever chip and buying components such as GSM modems and displays off ebay |
| 23:15.08 | Venemo | I wonder how much of an effort would that take |
| 23:15.23 | javispedro | tmo is crazy |
| 23:15.34 | javispedro | if you do that, you could as well buy an htc... |
| 23:16.27 | Venemo | javispedro: there's no OSS driver for htc's gsm hardware (that I know of?) |
| 23:16.44 | *** join/#maemo Dragnslicer (~scott@c-24-147-239-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:17.04 | jonwil | so reverse engineer HTCs blob, its been done before (OpenEZX anyone) |
| 23:20.33 | pupnik | not so easy |
| 23:21.08 | pupnik | n900 is definitely good enough hardware wise - keep a couple spare batteries |
| 23:23.17 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:23.27 | dotblank | Wasn't there a presentation at the chaos communication congress on a open gsm platform |
| 23:23.43 | dotblank | or at least reverse engineered |
| 23:24.00 | wmarone | there is an open source gsm stack in development |
| 23:24.59 | MohammadAG | <Venemo> someone on TMO said that the community should make their own phones by buying a pandaboard/whatever chip and buying components such as GSM modems and displays off ebay |
| 23:25.05 | Venemo | wmarone: really? |
| 23:25.12 | MohammadAG | just get a new SoC, desolder the one on the N900, solder the new one |
| 23:25.21 | MohammadAG | if you're awesome and epic, you'll get it working |
| 23:25.30 | wmarone | Venemo: yes, I think it's being led by... Harald Welte |
| 23:25.39 | Venemo | wmarone: for the N900? |
| 23:25.42 | wmarone | no |
| 23:25.48 | BCMM | someone on TMO said most things |
| 23:25.49 | Venemo | wmarone: then? |
| 23:25.57 | wmarone | it's just a general stack that implements GSM |
| 23:26.05 | Venemo | wmarone: ofono? |
| 23:26.24 | wmarone | I think it's aimed at being run in the same manner as the current baseband |
| 23:26.29 | wmarone | all on its lonesome |
| 23:26.34 | Venemo | MohammadAG: problem is, there is no SoC that's supported with fully OSS drivers. and I'm not sure if the modem is on the SoC :P |
| 23:27.02 | MohammadAG | I doubt the modem is on the SoC |
| 23:27.15 | wmarone | the modem is in the "Rapu Yama" chip on the mainboard |
| 23:27.16 | MohammadAG | if it was, the beagleboard would have a modem |
| 23:27.17 | Venemo | MohammadAG: so then why bother with desolderint the SoC? :P |
| 23:27.39 | Venemo | s/desolderint/desoldering |
| 23:27.40 | wmarone | didn't Nokia sell their baseband unit to Renesas some years back? |
| 23:27.43 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: (decode) you've seen the 7/8 transcode for SMS, as eg used in those tools to send SMS via cmdline? |
| 23:27.55 | MohammadAG | because I said you can do it, and last I checked, I'm on tmo! |
| 23:27.56 | jonwil | yes I have seen such tools |
| 23:28.26 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I suggest to try and decode your data with 8 different bit-offsets, and see what's the result |
| 23:28.46 | MohammadAG | I wish Nokia would just release the damn N9 already |
| 23:28.47 | jonwil | well I am following the ofono code as to how it decodes CBS messages |
| 23:28.56 | dotblank | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0LCgxe24Po |
| 23:28.58 | DocScrutinizer | "Calvaria - Maemo CAL partition variable access tool\n" \o/ |
| 23:29.06 | MohammadAG | or any developers' platform that doesn't cost me 2k bucks |
| 23:29.08 | dotblank | for a talk on that gsm platform |
| 23:29.25 | DocScrutinizer | wonder WTF this got to do with openWRT |
| 23:29.53 | *** join/#maemo timeless (58730824@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 23:30.02 | DocScrutinizer | who's going to build that tiny tool (for me :-D)? |
| 23:30.16 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ? |
| 23:30.28 | MohammadAG | Intel Aava |
| 23:31.41 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: is this accurate? http://nitdroid.com/index.php?title=N900Hardware |
| 23:32.48 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 23:32.54 | *** join/#maemo SouBE (irc@ilari.stenroth.fi) |
| 23:33.03 | DocScrutinizer | why? |
| 23:33.28 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/packages/utils/calvaria/files/src/calvaria.c |
| 23:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: would you give it a shot? |
| 23:34.13 | Venemo | just out of curiosity |
| 23:35.09 | *** join/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-76-175-234-46.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:36.07 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: it looks rather uninspired and inaccurate |
| 23:36.10 | *** join/#maemo korhojoa (~urpo@hoasnet-fe28dd00-251.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:36.18 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: thx |
| 23:36.28 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 23:38.42 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, it looks like a plain simple tool that reads cal |
| 23:41.21 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: umm, yes, no write option |
| 23:41.25 | DocScrutinizer | weird |
| 23:42.02 | jacekowski | it's not so easy to allocate block in cal |
| 23:42.19 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.24 | jacekowski | if you are interested in binary |
| 23:49.06 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
| 23:49.08 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 23:49.38 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what was the reason for OpenMoko's shutdown? |
| 23:49.50 | kerio | lag |
| 23:49.52 | DocScrutinizer | capital |
| 23:50.03 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: lack of? |
| 23:50.18 | DocScrutinizer | somewhat, yes |
| 23:50.56 | DocScrutinizer | or management decisions that lead to VC getting retracted |
| 23:51.26 | DocScrutinizer | so basically, yes lag |
| 23:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 23:51.40 | *** join/#maemo Bleadof (tarmo@dsl-jklbrasgw1-fe16fb00-79.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:51.51 | jacekowski | so what is FIC doing now? |
| 23:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | who's FIC? :-P |
| 23:52.16 | jacekowski | the company behind openmoko |
| 23:52.26 | DocScrutinizer | that's incorrect |
| 23:52.49 | jacekowski | so who are they then |
| 23:52.58 | DocScrutinizer | who? |
| 23:53.07 | jacekowski | FIC |
| 23:53.35 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, some hw manufacturer for computer mainboards that got closed down 2008 afaik? |
| 23:53.51 | jacekowski | well, they were manufacturing these phones |
| 23:54.01 | jacekowski | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 |
| 23:54.08 | DocScrutinizer | also the company that assembled Openmoko devices |
| 23:54.14 | jacekowski | ... manufactured by FIC who instigated the Openmoko project ... |
| 23:54.32 | DocScrutinizer | absolutely incorrect |
| 23:54.44 | jacekowski | well, it's on the wiki |
| 23:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 23:55.42 | DocScrutinizer | Openmoko used FIC for manufacturing their devices |
| 23:56.01 | DocScrutinizer | initiative never was from FIC |
| 23:56.29 | DocScrutinizer | and OM never been a subsidiary of FIC |
| 23:56.48 | jacekowski | why does internet think it was? |
| 23:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | oh, internet thinks now? |
| 23:57.34 | jacekowski | yes |
| 23:57.36 | jacekowski | collective |
| 23:57.39 | jacekowski | of the people |
| 23:57.46 | *** join/#maemo mat- (~900@linefeed.org) |
| 23:57.51 | DocScrutinizer | well, that'S the reason then |
| 23:58.08 | javispedro | uh |
| 23:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | see, OM been a "autonomous" company founded by Sean Moss-Pultz and financed by owners of FIC, and OM used FIC facilities and tech support |
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