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| 00:28.21 | lardman|home | night all |
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| 00:51.03 | anidel | trumee, thanks! |
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| 02:07.15 | ieatlint | ok, i need someone who knows a bit of c++ ... what's the difference between MyClass, MyClass* and MyClass& ? |
| 02:07.39 | ieatlint | or really, MyClass and MyClass&, as i know MyClass* is a pointer to it, but the other two are causing me a headache |
| 02:10.15 | wmarone | a postfix &? |
| 02:10.26 | jonwil | MyClass& is a reference |
| 02:10.50 | jonwil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C%2B%2B) |
| 02:11.35 | ieatlint | misses c, where he understood pointers |
| 02:12.52 | wmarone | oh |
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| 02:12.56 | wmarone | now I get it |
| 02:13.07 | wmarone | that's... bleh |
| 02:13.21 | ieatlint | thanks |
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| 02:28.57 | jonwil | heh, there are rumors that Nokia is going to switch to Windows Phone... |
| 02:28.59 | jonwil | http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/technology/04nokia.html?_r=4 |
| 02:29.32 | jonwil | IMO switching to Windows Phone would really hurt Nokia |
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| 02:31.38 | wmarone | there have been rumors of that for weeks |
| 02:32.19 | wmarone | the hiring postings lend no creedence to it |
| 02:32.45 | ieatlint | everything i've heard from nokia employees has been firmly without question or vagueness, that meego is nokia's future |
| 02:34.14 | ieatlint | also, nokia spent $3.9bn US on R&D in 2010 (apple comparatively spent less than $1bn on phones)... if they spent that only to use MS software, their shareholders would also be very upset |
| 02:35.38 | ShadowJK | the argument is that they'd save a large part of that 4bn by letting MS spend it on Windows phone :P |
| 02:36.08 | jonwil | I think the rumors partially come because the new head of Nokia is ex-MS |
| 02:36.42 | ShadowJK | The general idea seems to be that Nokia with its name could put windows phonew into consumers' pockets. |
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| 02:38.11 | ShadowJK | And hey, windows phone is stupidly crippled in many areas. It'd follow some of the tradition of symbians :) |
| 02:42.21 | ShadowJK | (referring to the old classical: if you're a hip consumer you don't get to have any RAM memory at all, storage memory that fills up and crashes phone after installing one app. If you're a "business" person you get RAM and stainless steel or aluminium, but no multimedia) |
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| 03:00.36 | ieatlint | i really do believe we'll see nokia push meego phones... i'm hoping at the MWC in a week |
| 03:05.59 | jonwil | I hope that whatever they push, it has ARM |
| 03:06.53 | ieatlint | hah, yeah, that one rumour claiming an intel chip in the n9... unlikely |
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| 03:15.53 | GeneralAntilles | It's gonna be an iPhone |
| 03:16.02 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia is going to be the new iPhone manufacturer. |
| 03:16.40 | MohammadAG | of course, it's the master plan to ruin iOS! |
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| 03:49.13 | [q^_^p] | hi for all |
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| 03:50.25 | [q^_^p] | any one know how i get the remote code for tv on irreco |
| 03:51.21 | [q^_^p] | lcd lg 32ld330 |
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| 04:23.43 | johnx | thoughts on the engadget/aava thing? |
| 04:24.04 | johnx | linkage if anyone's interested: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/03/aava-mobile-reportedly-set-to-reveal-medfield-based-android-me/ |
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| 04:24.39 | ShadowJK | I'd be surprised if aava ISN'T showcased with every possible OS :) |
| 04:24.55 | johnx | win3.1! |
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| 04:25.19 | johnx | m00f rm_you |
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| 04:26.38 | rm_you | m00 |
| 04:26.59 | rm_you | was setting up a new Asus RT-n16 with tomato |
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| 04:27.11 | johnx | working out well? |
| 04:29.44 | rm_you | stupidly easy |
| 04:29.58 | johnx | yeah, tomato is nice for the routers it supports |
| 04:30.18 | johnx | and the polish is all there |
| 04:32.01 | rm_you | also, as to timezones.... i'd point to routers that have a simple "select your timezone from this list based on the GMT offset, and check a DST box", or windows, which has the same setting |
| 04:32.58 | johnx | it's always a thin line to walk in terms of whether you'd confuse a lot of people or piss off a smallish number |
| 04:34.09 | rm_you | i still feel like the people who designed the tz system deserve a good strangling T_T |
| 04:34.37 | rm_you | as, in this case, M$ got it right... |
| 04:35.20 | ShadowJK | hm? |
| 04:35.56 | rm_you | just bitching about having to randomly guess a city in my time zone that's on the other side of the country from me, instead of saying "GMT -6, with DST" |
| 04:36.09 | ShadowJK | Which DST? |
| 04:36.13 | johnx | heh |
| 04:36.17 | rm_you | so i just click around on random cities until i get one that says GMT -6 |
| 04:36.21 | ShadowJK | Since the dates vary depending on where you are |
| 04:36.25 | rm_you | everyone keeps saying that |
| 04:36.33 | rm_you | but there are obviously systems that manage somehow |
| 04:36.49 | ShadowJK | And yeah, guessing cities sucks. |
| 04:36.50 | rm_you | like... Windows 95/98/2000/NT/XP/Vista/7? |
| 04:37.01 | rm_you | and most router software? |
| 04:37.06 | rm_you | and a ton of other devices? |
| 04:37.20 | ShadowJK | Windows always made me pick a city iirc |
| 04:37.22 | rm_you | even fscking wristwatches and alarm clocks? |
| 04:37.24 | johnx | there are systems that choose to piss off a small number of people, by not listing there situation |
| 04:37.33 | ShadowJK | it says "Helsinki/Athens/Teheran" iirc :P |
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| 04:37.59 | ShadowJK | Though I doubt Iran has DST on same dates as Greece and Finland.. |
| 04:39.07 | rm_you | http://imgur.com/xOlcs |
| 04:39.21 | rm_you | from my computer, right now, win7 |
| 04:39.39 | johnx | uhm, does canada really start DST at the same time as the states? |
| 04:40.36 | ShadowJK | ah it has offset AND city, that's okay |
| 04:40.53 | rm_you | and imgur isn't loading or i'd show the part that was hidden |
| 04:41.05 | rm_you | wtf my internet |
| 04:41.08 | rm_you | WTB some |
| 04:41.40 | rm_you | am i still online> |
| 04:41.41 | rm_you | ? |
| 04:41.42 | rm_you | SYN |
| 04:41.44 | rm_you | PING |
| 04:42.06 | johnx | yes |
| 04:42.19 | ShadowJK | "These limitations have caused problems. For example, before 2005, DST in Israel varied each year and was skipped some years. Windows 95 used rules correct for 1995 only, causing problems in later years. In Windows 98 Microsoft marked Israel as not having DST, forcing Israeli users to shift their computer clocks manually twice a year. The 2005 Israeli Daylight Saving Law established predictable rules using the Jewish calendar but Windows zone files cannot |
| 04:42.26 | ShadowJK | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:42.28 | ShadowJK | lols |
| 04:42.48 | johnx | heh |
| 04:43.02 | rm_you | lol, so the rest of the world's population suffers because Israel can't make up their damn minds |
| 04:43.17 | johnx | yeah, and the US and Canada *would* have had different DST rules *except* that Canada chose to pass the same law as the US about changing it |
| 04:43.28 | johnx | the US can't either |
| 04:43.47 | johnx | DST changed on 2007 for no good *#&$ing reason |
| 04:45.03 | johnx | Look, let's save time and just have the general form of this argument: Is it better to provide options that fit 99% of peoples' situations, or to purposefully leave out 20% of people to make things easier for the remaining 80%? |
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| 04:45.34 | rm_you| | http://i.imgur.com/3QuYc.png |
| 04:45.40 | rm_you| | that little tickbox |
| 04:46.15 | rm_you| | anywho, it's dumb |
| 04:46.21 | johnx | DST is dumb |
| 04:46.25 | rm_you| | yes |
| 04:46.29 | johnx | and any 'solution' can't be 100% |
| 04:46.35 | GeneralAntilles | But we're all farmers relying on lamps! |
| 04:46.39 | rm_you| | yeah but they chose the worst one |
| 04:46.48 | johnx | so you like the 80%/20% idea? |
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| 04:47.35 | rm_you| | cater to the 80% and let the 20% change the time on their computer *twice per year* manually? |
| 04:47.37 | rm_you| | erm, sure |
| 04:47.38 | rm_you| | why not |
| 04:47.48 | johnx | great. buy a mac. come back when you have one |
| 04:47.53 | rm_you| | except i think it's more like 98% and 2% |
| 04:48.07 | rm_you| | and obviously windows is working somehow |
| 04:49.19 | ShadowJK | This farmer's argument is kinda weird, because every farmer I know don't give a shit about the time, they follow the sun |
| 04:50.04 | johnx | IIRC, the popular story about DST is that it was a joke made by Ben Franklin taken out of context |
| 04:51.20 | ShadowJK | It probably makes more sense for factories and offices that typically have strict slavery to the clock - if lights weren't on in daylight anyways :P |
| 04:51.40 | rm_you | johnx: so, on sqeeze, which xen packages do i want to install |
| 04:54.36 | rm_you | xen-hypervisor-4.0-amd64 ? |
| 04:55.21 | rm_you | ah, xen-linux-system-2.6.32-5-xen-amd64 |
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| 05:09.58 | jonwil | YAY, "Your Nokia product has been serviced and will shortly be available for collection." |
| 05:10.08 | jonwil | Lets hope that means I can go and pick it up today |
| 05:10.22 | jonwil | or failing that tommorow |
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| 05:18.16 | jonwil | of course that may mean " |
| 05:18.34 | jonwil | mean "your handset is in the post and will take the best part of a week to get here" |
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| 06:05.15 | Termana | good morning |
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| 06:10.54 | ebzzry | Where does Modest store its data? |
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| 06:37.42 | xkr47 | wow |
| 06:37.58 | xkr47 | I started my n900 but forgot to enter pin code |
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| 06:38.24 | xkr47 | now when I picked it up, there are icons and title bars covering the pin code entry screen at strange locations |
| 06:38.41 | johnx | heh |
| 06:38.57 | johnx | ebzzry, probably /home/user in a hidden directory |
| 06:39.16 | xkr47 | now I got it into a state where I see the hildon app manager and all icons are along a vertical line in the middle of the screen |
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| 06:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | nice |
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| 06:52.32 | DocScrutinizer | heh >>Please kindly note: We are on Chinese New Year Holiday from 28th, Jan, 2011 to 10th, Feb, 2011. All orders in holiday, we will start to ship out on 11th, Feb, 2011. Sorry for any inconvenience.<< |
| 06:53.03 | DocScrutinizer | ohmy |
| 06:54.08 | johnx | yay. Chinese new year. The one year week of the year where China reminds all companies that there is a potential single point of failure in their supply chain :) |
| 06:54.27 | johnx | s/year week/week of the year/g |
| 06:54.39 | johnx | fails |
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| 06:55.26 | RST38h | moo, johnx |
| 06:55.41 | johnx | m00f |
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| 06:58.38 | xkr47 | bah it forgot the locations of icons during reboot |
| 06:58.38 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: or they tagged a sticker on it "FUBAR - happy CNY" |
| 06:59.05 | slonopotamus | really wonders why his n800 doesn't see mmc card when running 2.6.22-omap1 + diablo patches |
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| 07:00.51 | DocScrutinizer | yawns |
| 07:03.04 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, stop taking my oxygen >:P |
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| 07:05.04 | DocScrutinizer | I'm an anaerobic lifeform |
| 07:05.53 | johnx | what purpose does yawning serve? Just to make the locals comfortable? |
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| 07:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | nah, it's a signal that it's time for coffee |
| 07:08.24 | jonwil | I am sure Nokia are going to return my N900 in working order. About the only reason they wouldn't do it is if it was both a.Unfixable and b.Not covered under warranty |
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| 07:08.46 | slonopotamus | it's always time for coffee (otherwise it's time for sleep) |
| 07:09.05 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: or they are chinese |
| 07:10.35 | jonwil | Nokia are Finnish, not Chinese |
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| 07:13.45 | RST38h | Thank you, Cpt Obvious |
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| 07:15.22 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: HAH, >>Made in Korea<< |
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| 07:17.04 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, just FYI, China != Korea |
| 07:17.05 | RST38h | Doc: Or Hungary |
| 07:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | meh, for me it's just close enough |
| 07:18.00 | johnx | in the same way that Ukraine != Germany |
| 07:18.18 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 07:18.23 | johnx | heh, your sense of geography is almost ... American :> |
| 07:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | ORLY |
| 07:18.59 | johnx | yup. I wen there |
| 07:19.36 | RST38h | johnx: To Ukraine or toGermany? =) |
| 07:19.39 | DocScrutinizer | I always thought Korea and China were neighbours, btw unlike Germany and Ukraine |
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| 07:20.26 | RST38h | Doc: Don't worry it is fixable, just take over Poland (again!) |
| 07:20.36 | DocScrutinizer | hehehehe |
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| 07:21.13 | johnx | one pair separated by quite a bit of water, the other by a country |
| 07:21.52 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, not as long as you don't specifically say "SOUTH Korea" |
| 07:21.54 | RST38h | johnx: The correct wording in this case is "*currently* separated by a country" |
| 07:22.52 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 07:23.32 | johnx | and for all you know the Chinese gov't might just start some project to fill in the East China Sea :P |
| 07:24.21 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, you specified it in the 'made in Korea' line |
| 07:24.24 | RST38h | with Chinese you mean? |
| 07:25.03 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 07:25.32 | DocScrutinizer | tekojo: morning |
| 07:26.55 | tekojo | morning DocScrutinizer |
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| 07:31.47 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: we got any idea how many (in %) of the N900 were made in Hungary, and if there's and relation between "made in..." and e.g. USB-off issues? |
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| 07:36.15 | DocScrutinizer | idly mentions he'd be much more excited by Nokia announcing a N900i than by any anticipated N9 |
| 07:36.43 | frals | or a NOVERNINETHOUSAND |
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| 07:37.29 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: troll :P |
| 07:37.34 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 07:38.10 | luke-jr | did anyone here per chance just buy a Sandy bridge motherboard right before the recall? |
| 07:38.30 | DocScrutinizer | fix USB issue, add a dunno 1000MHz SoC with 512MB ram - profit |
| 07:39.25 | DocScrutinizer | tested known design, no huge PV tests... |
| 07:39.58 | luke-jr | I'd want at least 1 GB RAM |
| 07:40.05 | luke-jr | and AFAIK changing the SoC is non-trivial |
| 07:40.15 | haj | yeah... |
| 07:40.16 | luke-jr | they really should fix the keyboard too |
| 07:40.19 | DocScrutinizer | it actually is fsckng trivial |
| 07:40.28 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: OpenPandora lies then |
| 07:40.45 | DocScrutinizer | meh, openpandora |
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| 07:41.04 | johnx | trivial for a 5 person company is not the same as trivial for a company that spends Nokia's R&D budget |
| 07:41.27 | DocScrutinizer | TI won't even bother to sell them what they want if it were an existing SoC |
| 07:41.38 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: exactly |
| 07:42.50 | johnx | though thermal design might need to be revetted I'd imagine |
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| 07:43.11 | johnx | else you get hilarious sheevaplug/guruplug-type issues :) |
| 07:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | nah, prolly not |
| 07:43.42 | johnx | double the MHz on same generation silicon? |
| 07:43.53 | johnx | I'm assuming you're talking about another OMAP3/A8 part? |
| 07:44.09 | DocScrutinizer | TI can swap the OneNAND PoP on top of OMAP3430 easily, for a N900i |
| 07:45.05 | DocScrutinizer | and afaik there are OMAP3430 out in the wild that run @ 800MHz |
| 07:45.09 | johnx | and the OMAP3440 has the same TDP as the N900's OMAP3 (don't remember it's name)? |
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| 07:45.51 | johnx | or rather the same TDP @100MHz that the N900's does at 550MHz (is it 600?) |
| 07:45.55 | DocScrutinizer | N900 has OMAP3430 |
| 07:46.09 | johnx | ah, then I'm even more skeptical |
| 07:46.54 | DocScrutinizer | TDP is no issue as long as you got a sane management |
| 07:47.40 | johnx | soo, potentially be in a situation where you kick the user out of 1000MHz mode after a while? |
| 07:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | even now it's not just the CPU that heats up the device, and you need to throttle for UMTS data TX heating issues more often than for OCing |
| 07:48.03 | luke-jr | johnx: N900 can't even run at 600 MHz constantly. |
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| 07:48.38 | johnx | luke-jr, they didn't vet the design at that. Presumably some employees have had theirs overclocked for years now, testing it :) |
| 07:48.53 | johnx | Also, do we have any known OC-related hardware failures documented? |
| 07:49.05 | luke-jr | johnx: my understanding is that the chips are known to fail within a year if run constantly at 600 MHz |
| 07:49.06 | DocScrutinizer | see /topic |
| 07:49.19 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: exactly |
| 07:49.23 | johnx | has topic set to hidden, looks |
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| 07:49.49 | luke-jr | lol @ warranty 4 days ago |
| 07:49.59 | luke-jr | as if Nokia has any obligation to honour warranty when you OC |
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| 07:51.04 | mece | damn I hate that my n900 is not under warranty any more... |
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| 07:53.08 | johnx | heh. well I stand corrected |
| 07:53.25 | johnx | guess they need at least a newer rev to hit 1000MHz stable :) |
| 07:53.34 | johnx | or better thermal management |
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| 07:59.52 | DocScrutinizer | they would need just the same thermal mgmt they got right now, it's sufficient for 600MHz, will as well deal with 800 or 1000 |
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| 08:00.21 | RobbieThe1st | Anyone used Mumble-server recently? I'm having trouble logging in as superuser |
| 08:00.39 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. limit time at full speed, throttle when overtemp is around the corner |
| 08:01.16 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, and the OC kernels just ignore this or ... ? |
| 08:01.57 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: OC is killing by electromigration, not by overheating. A VERY common annoying misconception |
| 08:02.34 | johnx | Doesn't it get worse at high temperatures? Or am I misremembering? |
| 08:02.52 | johnx | Also, doesn't overvoltage contribute as well? |
| 08:03.30 | johnx | (been like 10 year since I read that article on overclocking on anandtech or tomshardware or somewhere ...) |
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| 08:06.24 | RobbieThe1st | johnx: Yea, both |
| 08:06.27 | DocScrutinizer | temperature is a factor, yes. Though not as much as current density (electron wind) is. Overvoltage doesn't apply really for OMAP anyway as SmartReflex has micro regulators for, like, every single gate on chip, so a higher core voltage applied just increases power dissipation of those regulators, while the gates themselves get the voltage they need for the particular clock |
| 08:07.22 | johnx | wow. that's crazy (WRT the micro-regulators) |
| 08:09.09 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d5152E781.static.telenet.be) |
| 08:09.17 | DocScrutinizer | in such a system every weird effect is possible, even killing the CPU by UNDERvolting it |
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| 08:09.37 | *** part/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de) |
| 08:09.49 | DocScrutinizer | only TI knows exactly how their chips behave |
| 08:10.39 | johnx | fun times |
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| 08:12.00 | johnx | ah, though speaking of OMAP3@800MHz+512MB of RAM: I've almost convinced myself the next thing to save for is a Nook Color |
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| 08:15.14 | haltdef | 4.8" atom+win7 device arrives today :D |
| 08:15.24 | johnx | wooo ... eh |
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| 08:15.34 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* |
| 08:17.54 | johnx | haltdef, or were you referring to the Aava phones? |
| 08:18.28 | haltdef | viliv n5 |
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| 08:22.38 | DocScrutinizer | WRT undervolting: imagine one gate output is delivering a degraded signal due to undervolting limiting the voltage range. Now this poor signal might cause a totem pole stage later in signal path to not properly switch from one state to the other, causing *both* transistors opening partially and creating a short from VDD to GND |
| 08:23.04 | johnx | fun times |
| 08:23.28 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 08:25.04 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@81-178-202-194.dsl.pipex.com) |
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| 08:27.25 | mybluevan | anybody know how to set up ssh-agent to persist between bash sessions on maemo? |
| 08:27.42 | johnx | use screen? |
| 08:28.16 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not saying this is likely to happen, I just point to the fact only TI knows how to operate their chips safely, and when TI says "limit operation time @600MHz to 1000h" and also provides a certain voltage regulation profile, then who do those OC fools think they are to know better, and just suggest "undervolting to mitigate OC dangers" |
| 08:29.09 | RobbieThe1st | I'm pretty sure that no one believes that undervolting mitigates OC dangers. |
| 08:29.30 | RobbieThe1st | It can't hurt, though - At the least, it will reduce power usage and heat. |
| 08:30.26 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~asolsson@nat/nokia/x-rilignbcarisndmh) |
| 08:30.42 | DocScrutinizer | see above epic length explanation why it doesn't |
| 08:31.16 | DocScrutinizer | and why it actually CAN hurt |
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| 08:33.16 | RobbieThe1st | Hm... I wonder what my profile would be considered, then. It's about two clicks above the instability level, and it seems to work perfectly well at that |
| 08:33.54 | RobbieThe1st | And hey - sure, my profile may reduce the total life... but if it lasts two years I'll be amazed - mainly because I'm hard on the exterior of equipment |
| 08:34.39 | johnx | RobbieThe1st, did you read the topic? :) |
| 08:35.01 | RobbieThe1st | Which one? |
| 08:35.17 | johnx | the 'epic OC death' or whatever :) |
| 08:35.23 | RobbieThe1st | Probably not |
| 08:35.52 | RobbieThe1st | I've read the various wiki pages and the long OC topic, weighted it all appropriately, and made my decision months ago |
| 08:35.57 | johnx | short read, 3 pages. guy killed it overclocking. Will have to see if Nokia fixes it for him |
| 12:26.00 | *** join/#maemo infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 12:26.00 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Epic OC fatality: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68795 |
| 12:26.36 | DocScrutinizer | I have to admit I never even clicked on that skype icon |
| 12:26.51 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.112.12.76) |
| 12:27.53 | villager | markinfo: like I said... the regular contacts and sms app (contacts/conversations), just like the regular phone |
| 12:28.03 | markinfo | it is a bit chaotic - at least for newcomers "New IM" a nd then are all contacts mixed . |
| 12:28.05 | villager | and like the others said |
| 12:28.20 | DocScrutinizer | I abandoned skype when they finally managed to get ALSA support, and it turned out the idiots used a hardcoded "default" audio device, so I wasn't able to redirect audio to the dedicated headset audicard on my x86 |
| 12:29.06 | DocScrutinizer | and since ebay bought them for $$*10E9, they are invisible for me |
| 12:30.27 | markinfo | that's why I have SIP provider. ...but anyway - most of users does not see the problems behind skype technology. |
| 12:31.12 | DocScrutinizer | you will however - *definitely*. It's going to suck your battery empty in a matter of hours |
| 12:31.20 | villager | markinfo: you can always put the contacts for your friends on a desktop, then you can see on that desktop which one of them is online... |
| 12:31.24 | jonwil | hates Skype |
| 12:31.24 | lindi- | I don't use skype but I have to admit that SIP is not very nice |
| 12:31.34 | jonwil | hates eBay too and PayPal |
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| 12:33.04 | markinfo | what is not "nice" on SIP? |
| 12:33.25 | DocScrutinizer | skype isn't optimized for energy conservation - the whole concept of skype is based on the idea of abusing your system and internet bandwidth to relay calls for other parties |
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| 12:33.39 | villager | I only configured skype because of a couple of friends... not using it otherwise... |
| 12:33.54 | DocScrutinizer | that's irrelevant |
| 12:34.09 | villager | that wasn't an answer |
| 12:34.35 | DocScrutinizer | that wasn't a question either |
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| 12:34.41 | lindi- | markinfo: 1) it's a fairly large standard and clients tend to only implement small part of it 2) it kind of assumes an internet with no firewalls or nats (you can workaround them to some extent but it is hard to automate) |
| 12:34.51 | villager | it was a "me too" for "I don't like skype" |
| 12:35.20 | DocScrutinizer | and mine was a "it will kill your battery no matter why you enabled it" |
| 12:35.31 | lindi- | markinfo: part "1)" includes things like encryption, call forwarding, chat |
| 12:36.06 | lindi- | markinfo: and also that almost all clients tend to have their own SIP stack instead of using some more generic library for it |
| 12:36.15 | villager | DocScrutinizer: like I said, that wasn't an answer... I wrote my line without even seeing yours |
| 12:36.51 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 12:37.17 | villager | DocScrutinizer: it just annoys me that you're talking to me as if I had said a word about the battery |
| 12:37.32 | DocScrutinizer | I wrote my comment to that line without even bothering if it's a question, a rant, or whatever |
| 12:37.52 | lindi- | markinfo: SIP is pretty ok for replacing analog phones in an office LAN |
| 12:37.57 | DocScrutinizer | villager: what makes you think I talked to you? |
| 12:38.26 | lindi- | markinfo: but there too the phone manufacturer has their own proprietary solution for address book |
| 12:38.27 | villager | DocScrutinizer: okay, who? |
| 12:38.45 | DocScrutinizer | villager: not ok, what? |
| 12:38.45 | yacc | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:39.31 | markinfo | hm - and SIP with IPv6 ? |
| 12:39.42 | villager | DocScrutinizer: who were you talking to when you said "that's irrelevant"? |
| 12:40.12 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not inclined to argue with you, so why do you start nagging about that? |
| 12:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | villager: this is a public channel |
| 12:41.00 | villager | DocScrutinizer: you implied that you weren't talking to me - is it not reasonable to ask who, then? |
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| 12:41.15 | DocScrutinizer | if you don't get to whom something is addressed, odds are it's not been addressed to you |
| 12:41.52 | villager | DocScrutinizer: and you feel it's easier to argue and evade the question than to simply answer it and prove me wrong? |
| 12:41.57 | DocScrutinizer | villager: and honestly, that's an utterly silly and useless conversation |
| 12:42.17 | villager | DocScrutinizer: yes, that was my point |
| 12:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | I feel it's easier to ignore you completely |
| 12:43.19 | kerio | but you can't! you're an op |
| 12:43.22 | kerio | you can't ignore people |
| 12:44.35 | DocScrutinizer | SIP should be rather fine with IPv6 |
| 12:45.00 | DocScrutinizer | and honestly SIP isn't as bad as lindi- and yacc claim |
| 12:45.30 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: yeah because IPv6 is meant to be NAT-free ;) |
| 12:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | it's just usually porly implemented |
| 12:45.38 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: but ipv6 is not here yet |
| 12:45.58 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: Actually, have you tried to run SIP at some random WLAN with some random NAT-ing router? Not a very reliable experience, ... |
| 12:46.03 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5887.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:46.06 | DocScrutinizer | and it actually doesn't play nice with NAT |
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| 12:46.57 | DocScrutinizer | but that is a common problem for all services you offer on your box |
| 12:47.03 | villager | DocScrutinizer: well, the easiest would have been to not answer my lines, since they were not intended for you to answer... yet you insisted on arguing with me largely irrelevant points for no reason, when I gave several reasons not to argue because I had not disagreed with you... I simply don't get it, why do you enjoy arguing so much, then? |
| 12:47.12 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: So if you just happen to be on one of these common networks where all devices have visible valid IP addresses, you are fine. (Well, visible valid IP addresses from the PoV of your PBX/SIP provider), ... |
| 12:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: still it worked like a charm for me, for ~3 years |
| 12:47.29 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: also afaik SIP has some "Call-ID" fields that are free form strings with no upper limit in the standard. that makes connection tracking kernel space tricky |
| 12:47.51 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: Well, it was a PITA to setup even on my home WLAN, ... |
| 12:47.55 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: using something like 64-bit identifier would have been nicer |
| 12:48.21 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: so that you don't need to strcmp() for every SIP packet ... |
| 12:49.24 | lindi- | yep SIP does not work to my SIP provider with my WLAN for some reason. it is double-NAT which might have something to do with it but it's hard to debug since I can't see what's on the other side of the outer nat |
| 12:50.14 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: how's that going to matter? SIP data volume for a call are some few hundered bytes, to establish and tear down the call. The rest is RTP |
| 12:50.50 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: it'd be a lot easier to be able to use fixed lenght identifier |
| 12:51.02 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 12:51.59 | lindi- | anyways, my notes on setting up SIP quickly and painlessly are at http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/sip/asterisk.txt |
| 12:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | the main problem of SIP is it's doing things *right*, I.E. tries to establish a point2point 2way connection between the 2 peers of a call |
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| 12:52.55 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: depends on who you ask :) |
| 12:52.56 | DocScrutinizer | while skype for example is using relays whenever needed, so you don't have the NAT issue |
| 12:53.21 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: I'd very much like to have a more general purpose transport than IP |
| 12:53.48 | DocScrutinizer | even more general purpose than IP? o.O ;-P |
| 12:53.53 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: a library that'd just have "send_data_to("Alice@foo.bar", buf);" |
| 12:53.56 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: That's a very theoretical PoV, for the last decade or so, establishing a true P2P connection has been only of limited practical value. |
| 12:54.05 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: and it'd then use whatever means it needs to use to send that buf to alice |
| 12:54.21 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: be it ipv4, ipv6 or decnet :P |
| 12:54.29 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: udp, tcp or HTTP proxy |
| 12:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: please elaborate |
| 12:55.35 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: well, that's SIP ;-D |
| 12:55.49 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: Well, for at least the last decade we are living with NATing routers being standard. Not as in used by geeks, but by "put in" by ISPs by default at your Grandma's place. |
| 12:56.25 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: With most ISP standard setup, you get a NATed address even if you have exactly one PC at home, ... |
| 12:56.59 | SpeedEvil | waves his static IP back and forth. |
| 12:57.06 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and SIP mitigated that by introducing STUN, hosted NAT traversal (even including relays), ICE, and whatnot |
| 12:57.11 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: Just presuming that you can establish a direct TCP connection to a peer, without planning in a well working workaround that is there by default, is, well, not very practical. |
| 12:57.24 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: one static IP only helps if you don't move :) |
| 12:57.44 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: try using it while in cafe, library, university, bus |
| 12:58.03 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: check N900 SIP advanced setting: you'll find STUN there |
| 12:58.14 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: yeah SIP tried a lot but it's not enough unfortunately |
| 12:58.15 | yacc | SpeedEvil, static IPs are bad, I cannot easily get a new IP either, and that sucks when trying to fetch something from rapidshare or similar services ;( |
| 12:58.27 | markinfo | what about Accu for n900? it seems that it last one day - it is also very small accu. |
| 12:58.32 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: it is |
| 12:58.35 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: vpn |
| 12:58.50 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: that only works for you, not for your grandma |
| 12:59.05 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: and it's very inefficient to relay all the traffic to your home |
| 12:59.05 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: it's users at large that don't put the meassures to purpose correctly |
| 12:59.12 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I had STUN support on my E61 too, and it still took enabling a STUN proxy on my router to make it work :( |
| 12:59.17 | GeneralAntilles | Damn, NOLO tries for about 10 seconds then dies. |
| 12:59.18 | SpeedEvil | I would be really, really surprised if my grandma required internet. |
| 12:59.22 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: well STUN does not help if the only way out is through a http proxy |
| 12:59.25 | GeneralAntilles | That's unfortunate. |
| 12:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: now that's completely off |
| 13:00.24 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: But it was so back than, one of the reasons I don't use SIP, I don't need it overly, got a practical mobile package, but it's just a PITA. |
| 13:00.53 | *** join/#maemo renatofilho (~renato@187.112.12.76) |
| 13:00.57 | markinfo | what about contacts on MSN and ICQ network? Is it necessary to use Pidgin? |
| 13:01.02 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: STUN "just works" with all but symmetric NAT (which never can work for p2p), and if your router has a SIP ALG that's fsckng broken, then how's SIP RFC going to fix that? |
| 13:01.09 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: Plus SIP via UMTS (because it's usually NATed, and even non-NATed providers do manipulate traffic, I've found) is about as reliable as roulette ;) |
| 13:01.22 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: SIP RFCs are not going to be able to fix things anymore :( |
| 13:02.46 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: for example at our university all outgoing udp traffic and incoming tcp connections are blocked |
| 13:02.49 | yacc | DocScrutinizer: Notice that the broken router as you call it was OpenWRT, and for example Skype just worked. (Well, the common problem for Skype is audio device trouble. The common problem for SIP in my "support family" is how to get the stupid thing to connect). |
| 13:02.53 | villager | markinfo: you can install the conversation plugins to add them to your contacts/conversations same way as sip/skype, but I think I found that some of them slurped up even more battery power than skype did |
| 13:03.01 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: so what? |
| 13:03.17 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: stun uses udp? |
| 13:03.44 | DocScrutinizer | yacc: skype "just worked" because it's abusing other peers as relays |
| 13:04.29 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: the free alternative could have that as an optional feature |
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| 13:04.53 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: yes, usually. Though I'm not sure if tcp-SIP would also switch STUN to tcp - it *should* though |
| 13:05.10 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: do you want to debug this? |
| 13:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | not really, why should I |
| 13:05.36 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: well I couldn't figure out how to make this work |
| 13:06.03 | DocScrutinizer | make what work? |
| 13:06.25 | lindi- | SIP calls from our university |
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| 13:07.36 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: I have a SIP subscription from my ISP and ssh -X access to the university machine |
| 13:07.39 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: see, if your traffic is blocked, then SIP is not supposed to work. Why should anybody bother to work around this. It's like asking to help on fraud |
| 13:08.04 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: not supposed to work? |
| 13:08.32 | markinfo | There is no something like systray on Maemo? Or it is this Surface with 6 squares? |
| 13:08.46 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:09.10 | DocScrutinizer | err, actually the bar where closk is |
| 13:09.21 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: if you put it that way then the problem with SIP is that network administrators do not support it enough |
| 13:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:09.43 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: and this makes SIP unsuitable even if it is not SIPs fault |
| 13:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | SIP is not designed to work against network config, it's assuming a somewhat sane config |
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| 13:10.26 | mikki-kun | markinfo: i think there might be though a systray in the repos, but it is iirc not the best implementation |
| 13:10.39 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: yeah but since that doesn't exists in many places it kind of isn't designed to work in nowadays networks :/ |
| 13:10.58 | DocScrutinizer | that's a rather weird notion |
| 13:11.21 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: I understand somehwat what you are trying to say but it doesn't really help the users :/ |
| 13:11.26 | markinfo | hm - how to autostart applications - like pidgin? |
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| 13:11.55 | mikki-kun | lindi-: how is the audio-routing working? |
| 13:11.59 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: my problem with skype is that it is non-free, not that it workarounds "broken" networks effectively |
| 13:12.09 | lindi- | mikki-kun: hmm? on what hw? |
| 13:12.16 | DocScrutinizer | well, would you suggest to include aircrack by default to all WLAN devices, "to help users" with the PITA of passphrases? |
| 13:12.18 | mikki-kun | on you ssh -X connection |
| 13:12.41 | lindi- | mikki-kun: I'm happy if I see voice data in tcpdump |
| 13:12.43 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: how many know how to use aicrack? ;) |
| 13:13.15 | DocScrutinizer | that's just a question of paying somebody to make aircrack as automated as skype is |
| 13:13.17 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: our university admins are ok with using tcp to send arbitrary data |
| 13:13.34 | DocScrutinizer | so where's the problem then? |
| 13:13.47 | DocScrutinizer | symmetric NAT? |
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| 13:13.56 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: well do you want to debug this or not? ;) |
| 13:14.03 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: I only know that it does not work, I hear no voice :P |
| 13:14.12 | DocScrutinizer | you said "all traffic blocked" |
| 13:14.22 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: I said that udp is blocked and incoming tcp connections |
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| 13:16.03 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: if you are willing to use twinkle and enable full trace, then do a few tests and capture a pcap, then I'm willing to look into it |
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| 13:18.24 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: I'll try |
| 13:18.40 | DocScrutinizer | markinfo: you could use queen-beecon |
| 13:19.47 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/sip/twinkle-saunalahti/config.png? |
| 13:21.14 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: fine. One very common problem (maybe even a flaw in that partucular STUNlib implementation) is the 'ping'-test to own IP. Many networks have local-loopback disabled, which means you can't reach your very own public IP though everybody outside your LAN can. STUNlib fails on this, detecting a false positive on symmetric NAT |
| 13:21.16 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: "Log debug reports" y/n? |
| 13:21.19 | markinfo | how to search for some programm like e.g "queen-beecon" ...there is no Text search window. |
| 13:21.34 | markinfo | in programm manager |
| 13:22.07 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: log all |
| 13:22.25 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/sip/twinkle-saunalahti/config-error.png |
| 13:22.44 | DocScrutinizer | markinfo: simply start typing searchstring |
| 13:23.17 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: mompls |
| 13:23.51 | GeneralAntilles1 | sighs. |
| 13:23.56 | GeneralAntilles1 | UPS is dead, too. Wonderful. |
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| 13:28.09 | GeneralAntilles | Holy shit. |
| 13:28.14 | GeneralAntilles | My September proto is living again. |
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| 13:31.26 | GeneralAntilles | Hmm, what do I need to change to get it to use the MicroSD instead of the eMMC? |
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| 13:35.52 | SpeedEvil | boot to meego/ |
| 13:36.18 | GeneralAntilles | Very funny. |
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| 13:39.54 | markinfo | i have installed Wi-fi signal applet - where can be added applets? |
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| 13:42.12 | psycho_oreos | on hildon-status-menu/ |
| 13:42.30 | psycho_oreos | s///?/ |
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| 13:42.45 | psycho_oreos | s/\/?/ |
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| 13:45.56 | markinfo | but it is not "add widget" ? |
| 13:46.26 | markinfo | where is "hildon-status-menu"? |
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| 13:48.21 | markinfo | I have installed some Battery programs and now disappeared battery status completely. |
| 13:48.50 | psycho_oreos | you probably need to reinstall that package, I believe you installed the advanced battery thingy |
| 13:48.58 | markinfo | It was right of 3G symbol? |
| 13:49.02 | psycho_oreos | happened to me before, reinstalling necessary apps worked |
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| 13:53.04 | markinfo | Hm - I have denstalled "Advanced power" and the symbol of accu is back. |
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| 15:54.36 | *** join/#maemo infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 15:54.36 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Epic OC fatality: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68795 |
| 15:54.58 | jhb | is there a list of all the dbus calls / apis for the standard apps? |
| 15:55.28 | jhb | (me just starts reading dbus docs) |
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| 16:04.29 | GAN900 | Oof, "Error loading new keyboard description" |
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| 16:11.17 | GAN900 | Can somebody pastebin me the last two arrow key definitions from /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 ? |
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| 16:40.08 | GAN900 | Anyone? |
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| 16:48.35 | RST38h | "When descending upon the carcass of the killed bear, the helicopter pilot failed handling the controls, allowing the bear to lead the score with 4 deaths." |
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| 16:57.00 | villager | GAN900: there's a copy of it at http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=933861 |
| 16:58.21 | GAN900 | villager, thanks. |
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| 17:24.00 | RST38h | well. moo. |
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| 17:27.15 | DocScrutinizer | remoo |
| 17:27.52 | lardman | evening all |
| 17:28.15 | DocScrutinizer | even I ng |
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| 17:32.23 | lardman | so OpenCL |
| 17:32.47 | lardman | and more importantly implementations on SGX 5xx |
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| 17:33.47 | lardman | I've seen some Nokia presentations, and from the ImgTech bumpf it is obviously possible, but is there anything usable about? |
| 17:37.03 | lardman | e.g. http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc21/1_sun/HC21.23.2.OpenCLTutorial-Epub/HC21.23.270.Pulli-OpenCL-in-Handheld-Devices.pdf |
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| 17:39.24 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 17:39.55 | lardman | javispedro: you'll know about this type of thing |
| 17:40.03 | lardman | and hi too :) |
| 17:40.05 | lardman | opencl |
| 17:40.06 | javispedro | hi there |
| 17:40.17 | javispedro | hmpf. never used it :P |
| 17:40.37 | lardman | nor have I, but apparently implementations for the sgx 5xx exist |
| 17:40.54 | javispedro | if they, I don't have them. I only have GL + VG here. |
| 17:40.54 | lardman | you've used opengl though? |
| 17:41.22 | javispedro | yep |
| 17:41.39 | lardman | ImgTech tout the SGX as having an OpenCL implementation, assuming you pay for it |
| 17:42.31 | lardman | is doing CUDA stuff at work, wondering whether to move to OpenCL instead, and that made him think of mobile dev stuff and whether there were any applications for our hw |
| 17:44.13 | javispedro | as usual, this all depends on wheter you can convince TI/Nokia to give you the libs... |
| 17:44.44 | javispedro | afaik the sgx is capable of it. |
| 17:45.00 | lardman | indeed, I was also thinking about looking at the old-school ways of mapping useful work into OpenGL code |
| 17:45.10 | lardman | not that graphics isn't useful ;) |
| 17:45.49 | javispedro | then there's some pdf around talking about the precisions the sgx uses in shader math, lemme google it |
| 17:45.55 | javispedro | ah, it's on the SDK |
| 17:45.57 | lardman | thanks |
| 17:46.06 | lardman | ah ok I should grab that really |
| 17:46.07 | javispedro | you have the imgtech n900 sdk? |
| 17:46.08 | javispedro | yep |
| 17:46.17 | lardman | no is there a specific version? |
| 17:46.44 | javispedro | there's a n900 specific one |
| 17:46.45 | lardman | I've only got the N8x0 versions |
| 17:46.49 | javispedro | it's slightly older, but doesn't matter. |
| 17:46.55 | lardman | ok, I'm registered so I'll see if I can grab it |
| 17:47.33 | javispedro | http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdkdownloads/index.asp#GLES2 |
| 17:49.51 | javispedro | btw, anyone coming to mwc? |
| 17:52.32 | lardman | thanks javispedro |
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| 17:58.44 | trip0 | ran apt-get dist-upgrade and apt uninstalled everything... |
| 17:58.45 | trip0 | wtf |
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| 17:59.09 | javispedro | first lesson on apt on a n900: never run apt-get dist-upgrade while having extras-{devel,testing} enabled |
| 17:59.33 | javispedro | there's just too many ... "mispackages" =) |
| 17:59.43 | trip0 | figures... |
| 17:59.45 | trip0 | :| |
| 17:59.47 | GAN900 | doesn't know why he's going to read Engadget comments on the MS/Nokia rumors. |
| 17:59.52 | lardman | curses imgtec for not actually bothering to send him a password reminder |
| 17:59.58 | trip0 | GAN900, don't do it |
| 18:00.07 | trip0 | that rumor is the stupidest thing i've heard in a long time |
| 18:00.09 | javispedro | types engadget.com |
| 18:00.43 | javispedro | yet another engadget rumour? =) |
| 18:01.13 | trip0 | it'd be like saying: "Qt, yeah, you know... that thing that we are developing to unite the world... Yeah, that's a bunch of crap. Silverlight FTW!!!11" |
| 18:01.32 | trip0 | engadget didn't start the rumor this time |
| 18:01.38 | derf | I don't know, this is Nokia |
| 18:01.45 | derf | That actually sounds pretty plausible. |
| 18:01.46 | javispedro | well companies make stupid moves from time to time, you know. |
| 18:01.47 | trip0 | it came from an "Analyst" |
| 18:02.21 | javispedro | I still remember Palm buying Be Inc, then splitting it, then trying to get their OS designers to build a Web Browser. |
| 18:02.25 | trip0 | idk, Qt's been the story for nokia for more than a few years now |
| 18:02.43 | trip0 | that at least it pretty consistant |
| 18:02.59 | javispedro | few years = 2 |
| 18:03.10 | trip0 | ~pr1.3 |
| 18:03.10 | infobot | well, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update |
| 18:03.21 | trip0 | sorry, just wanted the link :P |
| 18:03.53 | trip0 | ~flashing |
| 18:03.54 | infobot | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 18:05.06 | javispedro | trip0: not to mention that Microsoft in the picture doesn't mean Qt no longer fits. |
| 18:05.18 | trip0 | javispedro, wp7 bans opengl |
| 18:05.32 | trip0 | idk if qt has a directX layer does it? |
| 18:05.42 | javispedro | not more than a few days work... |
| 18:05.57 | trip0 | giggles |
| 18:06.04 | javispedro | in fact something that a hacker could do on his spare time =) |
| 18:06.16 | trip0 | idk... |
| 18:06.37 | trip0 | changing out an entire rendering system for something like Qt makes me shiver |
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| 18:07.37 | javispedro | not to mention that Ballmer would probably sell his grandmother to get WP7 on Nokia phones. |
| 18:07.51 | trip0 | true |
| 18:07.57 | trip0 | but still. |
| 18:08.11 | trip0 | nokia won't go with wp7 for the same reason they won't go with android |
| 18:08.17 | trip0 | they want to run the show |
| 18:08.37 | javispedro | with the man that said that out of the company, I hope that is still the case. |
| 18:08.47 | trip0 | they don't want google/microsoft to control their destiny |
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| 18:09.34 | compengi | hello all, does the wifi still having issues described on this link? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6615 |
| 18:09.36 | povbot | Bug 6615: Battery Dies Under 6 Hours with Very Moderate Use (Static IP?) |
| 18:10.09 | javispedro | well it says "FIXED" |
| 18:11.33 | compengi | aha\ |
| 18:11.38 | trip0 | hrm |
| 18:11.58 | trip0 | i can't for the life of me find a link to the pr1.3 firmware download |
| 18:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: problem is: nobody would buy Balmer's granny :-P |
| 18:14.17 | trip0 | or Balmer |
| 18:14.18 | compengi | and no body faced something similar? |
| 18:14.24 | javispedro | trip0: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ |
| 18:14.44 | trip0 | javispedro +1 |
| 18:14.53 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:15.12 | DocScrutinizer | the link is there: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Updating_.26_Flashing_your_device |
| 18:15.53 | GAN900 | "CanPeeWhilstStanding" predicted it months ago lol |
| 18:17.27 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 18:17.59 | javispedro | gets to practise his english formal letter skills |
| 18:18.03 | javispedro | let's see |
| 18:18.08 | javispedro | To whom it may concern... |
| 18:19.34 | *** join/#maemo sid__ (~sid@f055215037.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:20.04 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~asolsson@nat/nokia/x-hztjmhvetbmqpapg) |
| 18:20.10 | RST38h | javispedro, mooo |
| 18:20.26 | RST38h | javispedro: Start it with Dear Sirs! |
| 18:20.41 | GAN900 | javispedro, "Towards whomsoever" |
| 18:21.16 | javispedro | towards whomsoever? =) |
| 18:21.21 | jacekowski | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351937/Immigration-officer-fired-putting-wife-list-terrorists-stop-flying-home.html |
| 18:21.24 | jacekowski | ROTFL |
| 18:21.45 | javispedro | moo RST38h |
| 18:22.25 | trip0 | n900 not returning from b0rkage... |
| 18:23.24 | GAN900 | "Dear Sirs or Ma'am!" is good |
| 18:23.26 | trip0 | seyz "Nokia" on the screen when plugging into usb (no usb icon). |
| 18:23.34 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:23.40 | trip0 | just hangs out there for a while |
| 18:24.37 | RST38h | Dear Robotic Overlords! |
| 18:24.43 | trip0 | ...screen flickers, amber light turns off. nokia logo still remains |
| 18:24.55 | RST38h | 0xE1 0x38 0xAA 0x00 0x3E |
| 18:24.57 | trip0 | ...screen flickers, amber light turns back on |
| 18:25.00 | RST38h | Best regards |
| 18:25.15 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.37 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@212.103.70.50) |
| 18:27.24 | trip0 | ahh, maybe my batter is too low |
| 18:27.46 | *** join/#maemo odin_ (~dlm@93-97-168-38.zone5.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:28.52 | trip0 | swaps battery with other n900 |
| 18:28.55 | trip0 | ding |
| 18:29.00 | javispedro | Yours faithfully, |
| 18:29.07 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:30.12 | trip0 | w00t, it's booting! |
| 18:30.29 | trip0 | all my data should still be there right? |
| 18:30.39 | RST38h | Yours internally |
| 18:30.56 | lardman | worries about low batter |
| 18:31.08 | lardman | I mean how will the fish and chips turn out? |
| 18:32.31 | GAN900 | lardman, burnt. |
| 18:32.33 | trip0 | probably not very good |
| 18:32.46 | RST38h | Not "burnt", "well done"! |
| 18:32.57 | javispedro | Dear Robotic Overlords, I hereby announce that the fish and chips will turn out not very good. Yours internally, a battery. |
| 18:32.57 | trip0 | data still lives! |
| 18:33.19 | lardman | trip0: glad to hear it inspite of the burnt f&c |
| 18:33.31 | lardman | sorry, well done |
| 18:33.33 | lardman | ;) |
| 18:35.17 | trip0 | :P |
| 18:46.08 | GAN900 | javispedro, clearly you have a future in letter writing. |
| 18:46.11 | lardman | aaaargh, curse MATLAB's 1-based arrays |
| 18:49.33 | *** join/#maemo isak (~isak@78-69-9-172-no169.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:50.03 | derf | Blame FORTRAN. |
| 18:50.07 | derf | It's all their fault. |
| 18:50.18 | lardman | indeed, and the column-wiseness |
| 18:50.57 | javispedro | GAN900: it's all this channel's fault :) |
| 18:52.47 | derf | The column-wiseness I am actually okay with. |
| 18:53.08 | derf | A lot of matrix algorithms really should operate on columns. |
| 18:54.03 | lardman | confusing for C though as that assumes rows, though it really depends how you do it in your head |
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| 18:56.27 | derf | Well, C and mathematics do not agree, but that's more C's fault. |
| 18:56.39 | lardman | :) |
| 18:57.12 | derf | But there's no excuse for 1-based indexing, even given mathematics, because then the language and the _machine_ don't agree. |
| 18:57.34 | lardman | yeah, makes all sorts of things annoying |
| 18:58.05 | lardman | It's only taken me a day to move the MATLAB code to C, mainly as I wrote the MATLAB stuff as 0 based +1 |
| 18:58.40 | lardman | but there are still issues, probably caused by for loop indicies |
| 18:59.05 | lardman | again a difference in how the for loop limits are calculated |
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| 19:00.26 | javispedro | you know, a company would probably get rich with matlab->c translator |
| 19:00.31 | javispedro | probably already exists |
| 19:00.36 | derf | I solve this problem by writing it in C to begin with, but I undertand I am unusual in this respect. |
| 19:01.10 | derf | javispedro: You can call Matlab code from C. |
| 19:01.49 | derf | It is extraordinarily painful to set up, though, and still just as slow as Matlab. |
| 19:02.38 | lardman | MATLAB is far easier to debug while testing your algos though |
| 19:02.50 | piggz | i sent my faulty n900 for repair...it had an fm transmitter....i got it back with basically new board/internals, and no fm transmitter....is it a firmware thing??? |
| 19:05.09 | *** join/#maemo blackthorne (~blackthor@unaffiliated/blackthorne) |
| 19:05.10 | blackthorne | hi |
| 19:05.17 | blackthorne | anyone tried pyside with maemo? |
| 19:05.23 | blackthorne | Trying to make an hello world... |
| 19:05.29 | lardman | piggz: why do you think it has no transmitter? |
| 19:05.34 | lardman | blackthorne: yes |
| 19:05.52 | piggz | lardman: no options in settings anymore |
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| 19:08.27 | blackthorne | lardman: can you make your code work on the simulator? |
| 19:08.51 | lardman | piggz: which image do you have flashed, some regions don't allow fm transmitters |
| 19:08.52 | blackthorne | did you designed it in some visual tool or manually? |
| 19:09.08 | lardman | blackthorne: never used a simulator, just write it by hand |
| 19:09.16 | piggz | lardman: just what it came with, so probably uk...i used to have the global one |
| 19:09.36 | blackthorne | lardman: do you have any source of guidance to write something like an hello world for maemo? |
| 19:09.37 | lardman | check, uk does now afaiu allow fm transmitters |
| 19:09.58 | lardman | blackthorne: pretty much identical to the pyqt examples, just substitute the import line |
| 19:10.15 | *** join/#maemo scoobert1on (~tom@93.186.150.177) |
| 19:10.44 | lardman | otherwise there's some stuff on the pyside site, or in the repo at least (which has a web browsing function so you can see the code) |
| 19:11.11 | piggz | lardman: how do you check which region is on it....i checked the version which is 1.3 |
| 19:11.20 | lardman | piggz: I can't imagine that they took the transmitter out basically |
| 19:11.23 | lardman | hmm, not sure |
| 19:11.26 | lardman | anyone else? |
| 19:11.51 | lardman | heads for food, bbiab |
| 19:11.57 | blackthorne | lardman|gone: you didn't had to replace QApplication by QtGui.QApplication |
| 19:12.02 | blackthorne | and things like that Qtcore. |
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| 19:21.54 | javispedro | Microsoft to license S40 =) |
| 19:21.58 | javispedro | </more rumours> |
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| 19:28.28 | makulkar_laptop | javispedro, ru serious? |
| 19:29.20 | makulkar_laptop | javispedro, missed your next line ;) |
| 19:29.42 | makulkar_laptop | need helP! I setup ubuntu on my laptop and i try to connect my n900 using |
| 19:29.44 | makulkar_laptop | sudo ssh root@192.168.2.15 |
| 19:29.44 | makulkar_laptop | ssh: connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: No route to host |
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| 19:34.37 | marciom | blackthorne: this may help you: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/sites/files/pages/pyside-qml-article-1.1.pdf |
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| 19:47.45 | MohammadAG | makulkar_laptop, Maemo 5? ifup usb0 in a root shell on the N900 |
| 19:47.46 | MohammadAG | also |
| 19:48.26 | MohammadAG | see the wiki article on USB networking |
| 19:48.47 | makulkar_laptop | Im able to ssh on my desktop same device not on my laptop wihch i just installed ubuntu |
| 19:49.03 | makulkar_laptop | both computers are connected on same LAN network |
| 19:49.25 | MohammadAG | 192.168.2.15 is USB networking by default |
| 19:49.43 | MohammadAG | Your LAN network doesn't matter in this case |
| 19:51.52 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, how do i login to rootshell on device? su - complains |
| 19:52.18 | MohammadAG | install rootsh |
| 19:53.18 | makulkar_laptop | I havent set any rootpassword? what will be the default one |
| 19:53.37 | MohammadAG | there isn't one |
| 19:53.48 | MohammadAG | install rootsh or openssh-server |
| 19:54.32 | MohammadAG | rootsh gives you a root shell with `root`, openssh-server allows you to set a root password without rootsh |
| 19:54.33 | makulkar_laptop | because I can ssh from desktop for same device, it mean the USB is up and running? |
| 19:54.54 | MohammadAG | err, if you can ssh into your device then you know your root password |
| 19:55.01 | MohammadAG | in that case, ssh root@localhost |
| 19:55.31 | makulkar_laptop | ssh not found :( |
| 19:56.00 | MohammadAG | install openssh-client |
| 19:57.25 | DocScrutinizer | is the N900 USB connected to your desktop PC or to your laptop? |
| 19:57.45 | makulkar_laptop | DocScrutinizer, it works when i connect to desktop but not laptop. SSH login i mean |
| 19:58.01 | *** join/#maemo sid_ (~sid@f055165045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:58.06 | MohammadAG | 192.168.2.15 is USB networking, it won't work on two PCs at once |
| 19:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | well, your desktop has a route to N900, your laptop doesn't |
| 19:58.46 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, oh! so I can delete .ssh/known_hosts from device? |
| 19:59.00 | MohammadAG | why would you do that? |
| 19:59.25 | DocScrutinizer | you frequently want to do that |
| 19:59.38 | makulkar_laptop | i want device to connect to laptop. I dont care about desktop |
| 19:59.41 | MohammadAG | I edit mine |
| 19:59.59 | MohammadAG | then connect the device's USB to the laptop and follow the USB networking guide |
| 20:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | I use ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null |
| 20:01.45 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@188.188.138.128) |
| 20:02.26 | DocScrutinizer | makulkar_laptop: you are aware that when you plug in USB N900 to desktop PC, then the ssh connection is via USB and has *nothing* to do with your possibly existing LAN? |
| 20:02.29 | *** join/#maemo thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@dslb-088-066-090-087.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:03.14 | DocScrutinizer | I.E if you want to reach N900 from laptop, you need to plug the N900 USB to laptop |
| 20:03.17 | MohammadAG | the N9 should have two USB ports to solve that issue |
| 20:03.18 | makulkar_laptop | DocScrutinizer, yeah. I mentioned about LAN because to convey IP address range are same. Device has some valid/invalid range |
| 20:03.28 | MohammadAG | also useful if one USB breaks |
| 20:04.14 | makulkar_laptop | DocScrutinizer, I have. first I up the USB0 and then try to ssh to device on laptop which times out. |
| 20:04.15 | *** join/#maemo kodomo_ (~gregor@g226057016.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:04.41 | MohammadAG | is the device connected to the laptop? |
| 20:04.44 | MohammadAG | via USB |
| 20:04.47 | makulkar_laptop | DocScrutinizer, same thing when I reomve USB end from laptop and connect to desktop usb0 up and ssh works fine. I will get root password prompt |
| 20:04.55 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, yes |
| 20:05.04 | MohammadAG | follow the USB guide |
| 20:05.12 | MohammadAG | you need some rules in /etc on the laptop |
| 20:05.26 | makulkar_laptop | Also, it tries to mount to camera device fails to mount with "failed to lock" error |
| 20:05.52 | MohammadAG | you lost me there |
| 20:06.06 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, can you give me wiki link for USB guide |
| 20:06.36 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, basically when I connect device to desktop it mounts the device fine but not on laptop |
| 20:06.51 | MohammadAG | I'm on the N900, so can't check, but I remember the name was USB Networking so I'd guess http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_Networking |
| 20:07.12 | MohammadAG | or not |
| 20:07.12 | MohammadAG | sec |
| 20:07.50 | MohammadAG | oh, small n |
| 20:07.52 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, almost right! just small n |
| 20:07.54 | makulkar_laptop | yes |
| 20:07.55 | korhojoa | :D |
| 20:08.29 | korhojoa | Impressive skills there. |
| 20:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | ~usb-networkin |
| 20:08.51 | DocScrutinizer | ~usb-networking |
| 20:08.52 | infobot | hmm... usb-networking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 20:10.02 | MohammadAG | I wonder why ubuntu hibernates my laptop at 60% battery life |
| 20:10.22 | MohammadAG | the battery meter shows percentage correctly |
| 20:10.31 | DocScrutinizer | maybe because ubuntu is BS? |
| 20:10.38 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 20:10.50 | MohammadAG | infobot, ubuntu |
| 20:10.50 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, ubuntu is caca from this ass http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3843/18427557718e22857e9rb.jpg |
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| 20:11.13 | MohammadAG | err, that changed from the one I remember |
| 20:11.43 | RST38h | hmmmm |
| 20:12.00 | MohammadAG | nsfw too |
| 20:12.00 | DocScrutinizer | you meant |
| 20:12.04 | DocScrutinizer | ~ubuntu |
| 20:12.05 | infobot | [ubuntu] caca from this ass http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3843/18427557718e22857e9rb.jpg |
| 20:12.14 | DocScrutinizer | has changed? |
| 20:12.23 | MohammadAG | yes, it was something like |
| 20:12.31 | MohammadAG | ~debian |
| 20:12.31 | infobot | http://www.debian.org. See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/index.en.html#contents |
| 20:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 20:12.50 | DocScrutinizer | ~ubuntu MohammadAG |
| 20:12.50 | infobot | ACTION lovingly explains to MohammadAG in a way that causes MohammadAG to weep with gratitude that MohammadAG must read the fine, friendly manual |
| 20:13.05 | DocScrutinizer | ~debian MohammadAG |
| 20:13.05 | infobot | ACTION tells MohammadAG to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! |
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| 20:14.58 | DocScrutinizer | there's no change in ~ubuntu |
| 20:15.05 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo ubuntu |
| 20:15.05 | infobot | ubuntu -- last modified at Tue Oct 25 18:33:34 2005 by sinplomo; it has been requested 12 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 3m 1s ago. |
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| 20:17.03 | dan2003 | Hi guys, im making a little homescreen widget which monitors a value (obtained via JSON from a server), I am comparing this value with some defineable limits and wish to sound an alarm when it is outside the safe area. I have managed to make a libnotify bubble work, i now wish to make it produce a sound - it must produce this sound eveb of profile is set to silent - this is imeperitve. What would be the best way to do this? |
| 20:17.53 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Search talk.maemo.org for "libplayback" |
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| 20:18.59 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: thx, ill check that out |
| 20:19.30 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Which language are you writing in? C? |
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| 20:21.29 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: c++ , im actually using Qt |
| 20:21.50 | dan2003 | this looks like it will do what i want |
| 20:24.28 | dan2003 | im not sure actually - will need to study and test - the alarm is more important than a phone call, this example seem sto give a phone call higher priority |
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| 20:27.08 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Sorry, X11 just froze. Did you write anything? :) |
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| 20:28.20 | Tu13es | so i've got an n800 on my desk and i have no idea what to use it for |
| 20:28.27 | Tu13es | is it worth trying to find something to do with it? |
| 20:28.40 | Tu13es | I have an iPhone which does pretty much everything I want in a mobile device |
| 20:28.47 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: hi, yeah, this looks promissing but im not sure it will do quite what i need, The alarm must take priority over everything - including incoming or established calls |
| 20:29.18 | dan2003 | Tu13es: send it to me :) |
| 20:29.32 | Tu13es | what will you use it for? |
| 20:29.40 | Tu13es | i wish there was a good clock app for it |
| 20:29.42 | dan2003 | remote controll for media player |
| 20:29.46 | Tu13es | or something to get growl notifications or something |
| 20:30.06 | dan2003 | my n900 does the job nicely, but when im not in my miss's has to resort to laptop - less than ideal |
| 20:30.25 | Tu13es | ah |
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| 20:30.39 | Proteous | I had a nice clock/alarm app on my n810 |
| 20:30.47 | Proteous | don't remember the name offhand |
| 20:30.53 | Proteous | but I got it from the repos |
| 20:30.53 | Tu13es | i have flipclock and mclock i think |
| 20:31.02 | Proteous | I think it was flipclock |
| 20:31.13 | Proteous | not positive though |
| 20:31.29 | thomasjfox | dan2003: There are different playback priority groups. |
| 20:31.34 | Proteous | it was a little wonkey but it worked pretty good |
| 20:31.42 | thomasjfox | dan2003: One is alarm IIRC |
| 20:33.16 | DocScrutinizer | thomasjfox: and how would I select one of those for e.g. playsound cmd? |
| 20:34.19 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer: Is that a preinstalled cmd line app? |
| 20:34.25 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 20:34.42 | thomasjfox | Guess it doesn't have support for that, right? |
| 20:34.47 | DocScrutinizer | sorry play-sound |
| 20:34.52 | thomasjfox | If it's in C, we could extend it |
| 20:35.09 | thomasjfox | Which reminds me to copy the libplayback example code to the wiki |
| 20:38.14 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: sorry, not sure if u saw answer re language, im using Qt and hence c++. |
| 20:38.50 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Perfect as I'm not sure if there a python bindings for libplayback |
| 20:38.56 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~lolloo@94.96.29.242) |
| 20:38.58 | thomasjfox | What do you use for audio output? |
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| 20:41.05 | Tu13es | wow, apparently n800s sell on ebay for like $50-75 |
| 20:41.08 | Tu13es | i guess there's my answer |
| 20:41.18 | DocScrutinizer | sighs and wonders why we need this PA cruft, while ALSA been so nice and simple, just use the proper output device as a proxy for any friggin playback priority group |
| 20:42.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: but Doc, that would be the sensible thing to do! |
| 20:42.47 | DocScrutinizer | ooh yes. Sorry |
| 20:42.57 | thomasjfox | may be it has something to do with the forced muting/stop of audio streams on incoming calls |
| 20:43.17 | kerio | thomasjfox: alsa has mixers |
| 20:44.04 | *** part/#maemo Tu13es (brandon@colobus.isomerica.net) |
| 20:44.29 | thomasjfox | kerio: True that |
| 20:44.46 | DocScrutinizer | ALSA has hooks too |
| 20:45.41 | DocScrutinizer | which are really nice, for exactly that purpose to implement such things like playback priority assigned to a audio device |
| 20:46.24 | dan2003 | hmm, so it works in silent profile, which is good :). but makes no sounds at all whilst in a phone call :(.. Even if i could get the ear peice beep that happens if a txt or another call comes , that would be gd |
| 20:46.55 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Did you just compile the example code? |
| 20:46.59 | dan2003 | yup |
| 20:47.11 | thomasjfox | Did you change the audio class? |
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| 20:47.41 | dan2003 | not as yet - need to study it in more deatil to work that out. |
| 20:47.50 | thomasjfox | Let me look it up |
| 20:48.35 | thomasjfox | Hopefully my box doesn't freeze again, it happens more often if I fire up a VM... |
| 20:51.45 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Try PB_CLASS_ALARM instead of PB_CLASS_MEDIA ;) |
| 20:52.28 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: ok thx, ill do that |
| 20:54.27 | dan2003 | nope, still nothing when in call :( |
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| 20:58.45 | thomasjfox | what does happen with the real alarm clock while you call? |
| 20:59.22 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: gd Q, ill try and see |
| 21:01.49 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: it makes the sutble beep tone u get if a txy/call/email comes in - but that should do, as long as something lets me know i need to look at the screen im happy |
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| 21:02.52 | thomasjfox | Guess you have to test the different audio classes then |
| 21:03.28 | thomasjfox | PB_CLASS_EVENT might do |
| 21:03.50 | thomasjfox | If that doesn't work, try to combine "PB_CLASS_EVENT|PB_CLASS_ALARM" |
| 21:04.07 | thomasjfox | Unfortunately there's no official libplayback documentation |
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| 21:06.34 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, tried the wiki things same result :( |
| 21:06.39 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: neither of those do it :(, maybe have to call something else altogether? |
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| 21:10.24 | thomasjfox | dan2003: How did you exactly test the normal alarm clock? Did you set an alarm and when it fired tried to call your phone? |
| 21:10.46 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Or was a phone call already active and then the alarm fired? |
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| 21:13.46 | dan2003 | i set alarm to go off in the next min, and initiated a call, it went off about 20 secs into call |
| 21:14.38 | Venemo | lol dan2003 |
| 21:15.05 | dan2003 | I know howto controll the led idicator via the /sys/class/leds interface, but wonder if there is some qt/notification API for this also? |
| 21:16.18 | dan2003 | (that might take into account what over applications might be trying to do with it) |
| 21:17.21 | dan2003 | over/other |
| 21:19.47 | thomasjfox | dan2003: If an alarm is currently "playing" and a new call is coming in, the alarm gets muted |
| 21:20.52 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Let's try the other way (the one you did) |
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| 21:23.30 | thomasjfox | dan2003: I don't hear the alarm at all if a call is active |
| 21:24.28 | DocScrutinizer | dan2003: you should use mce and dbus to control LEDs |
| 21:24.39 | dan2003 | u should here a short tone in the ear peice |
| 21:24.57 | dan2003 | DocScrutinizer: thx, ill add that to the list of things to research . |
| 21:25.08 | DocScrutinizer | it's simple |
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| 21:25.56 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#LED |
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| 21:27.57 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns |
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| 21:29.28 | dan2003 | DocScrutinizer: so it woul dappear :) |
| 21:32.08 | DocScrutinizer | actually messing with /sys nodes for LEDs might cause mce to segfault, which isn't what you want to encounter |
| 21:33.06 | DocScrutinizer | fcam did this boo boo |
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| 21:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | dan2003: maybe you should use vibrator to signal events during call? |
| 21:41.47 | DocScrutinizer | I found this is a more easy to detect feedback than a beep mixed into whatever currently might be the phonecall inbound audio |
| 21:42.29 | DocScrutinizer | at least when far end is sending beeps as well, odds are you won't notice it at all ;-D |
| 21:43.40 | dan2003 | DocScrutinizer: thats exactly what im going to do :) |
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| 21:44.42 | DocScrutinizer | damn, I was afraid you'd say that. I'd appreciate to learn how to actually mix in a beep to call audio :-D |
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| 21:46.32 | lardman | blackthorne: you still here? |
| 21:46.49 | blackthorne | Yes |
| 21:47.15 | lardman | adding the QtCore or QtGui bit holds true for either PyQt or PySide, depends how you import the library |
| 21:47.43 | lardman | apologies for the slow response, was watching the rugby |
| 21:47.54 | blackthorne | from .. import * vs import .. |
| 21:48.18 | lardman | yeah and tbh I never get it right either, I should really read the docs ;) |
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| 21:49.05 | blackthorne | that makes sense even though my real experience goes against it. Couldn't make it work with from QtGui, QtCore import * |
| 21:49.54 | lardman | it may also be that there's an extra layer in the pyside names |
| 21:49.54 | blackthorne | anyway, my main focus before leaving pyqt to pyside is to make something work in the maemo |
| 21:50.09 | lardman | you should talk to khertan |
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| 21:52.30 | thomasjfox | dan2003: I heard it after switching on the speaker. I'm not sure if that beep gets generated by a "real" audio source |
| 21:52.47 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Guess there's a special mechanism (on dbus?) to do this |
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| 21:53.36 | thomasjfox | is anyone familiar with the structure of the "development section" of the wiki? |
| 21:54.14 | thomasjfox | I want to post the libplayback example there but I'm not sure if it's good to have a C file here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain#libplayback |
| 21:54.35 | lardman | can you post a link to the file? |
| 21:54.52 | lardman | otherwise I can't see a problem with a [code] insert |
| 21:55.00 | blackthorne | lardman: else I want to be able to deploy a full product with no strange dependencies for the users |
| 21:55.19 | blackthorne | for both win, mac and Linux |
| 21:55.24 | thomasjfox | lardman: It's here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67157 |
| 21:55.43 | thomasjfox | lardman: The code is rather big |
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| 21:56.26 | lardman | blackthorne: I don't see weird deps, I was just wondering if you need to import pyside.qtgui.something? |
| 21:56.37 | lardman | thomasjfox: can you host it? |
| 21:57.09 | thomasjfox | lardman: I wanted to make sure it stays on maemo.org so it doesn't get removed in one or two years |
| 21:57.20 | lardman | I guess TMO should stay there, otherwise add it to e.g. git or svn in a Garage project? |
| 21:57.52 | lardman | thomasjfox: I can't do guarantees, sorry ;) :) |
| 21:58.06 | blackthorne | lardman: Yes, I want to bundle statically pyside being python the only dep |
| 21:58.14 | lardman | but Garage and TMO should stay there |
| 21:58.29 | lardman | blackthorne: yuck |
| 21:58.42 | blackthorne | lardman: Rugby, you american? |
| 21:58.46 | lardman | why not have 2 deps and be more normal? |
| 21:58.52 | lardman | blackthorne: double yuck! |
| 21:58.58 | lardman | no, English |
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| 21:59.03 | blackthorne | lol |
| 21:59.06 | lardman | :D |
| 21:59.10 | jhb | hi *, I know python, but have never done gui development before. Should I go down the qt or the gtk route, also having cross-platform in mind? |
| 21:59.32 | blackthorne | Normal, most major apps don't have deps |
| 21:59.37 | thomasjfox | lardman: TMO is talk.maemo.org? ;) |
| 21:59.38 | lardman | those Yanks have to play with breaks and armour, not the same game at all ;) |
| 21:59.47 | lardman | thomasjfox: yep |
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| 22:00.14 | blackthorne | For instance, Skype |
| 22:00.18 | lardman | prepares for the abuse from GAN900 |
| 22:00.35 | lardman | and others no doubt |
| 22:00.40 | GAN900 | See, if you hadn't highlighted me I'd never have noticed. |
| 22:00.49 | thomasjfox | lardman: I'll add a link from the wiki to TMO - better than nothing |
| 22:00.54 | GAN900 | Now I'm going to read the scrollback. :P |
| 22:01.01 | lardman | GAN900: :) |
| 22:01.13 | lardman | thomasjfox: yep, how big is the file? |
| 22:01.27 | lardman | e.g. lines? |
| 22:01.46 | thomasjfox | lardman: 298 lines / 10 kb |
| 22:01.58 | lardman | bloody long lines then! |
| 22:01.59 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: vibrate does work when call is ongoing :( |
| 22:02.08 | dan2003 | thomasjfox: does/does not |
| 22:02.08 | lardman | 10kb!? really? |
| 22:02.52 | thomasjfox | lardman: Well, it contains documentation due to the lack of official documentation |
| 22:02.58 | lardman | ok |
| 22:03.03 | GAN900 | lardman, the armour just leads to more dementia. |
| 22:03.11 | lardman | GAN900: :) |
| 22:03.24 | DocScrutinizer | dan2003: duh! |
| 22:03.30 | blackthorne | lardman: So Ryan Giggs is the person of the year? |
| 22:03.48 | lardman | GAN900: Just delays the effect of the head injuries, or allows you to keep playing when you would normally have given up I guess |
| 22:04.03 | lardman | blackthorne: he's Welsh afaiu? |
| 22:04.15 | lardman | and he's a Soccer player, rubbish sport imnsho |
| 22:04.22 | GAN900 | lardman, makes you think you're invicible, so harder hits, which leads to more brain damage. |
| 22:04.35 | lardman | nod |
| 22:04.56 | lardman | only feel invicible once per game playing rugby |
| 22:05.18 | blackthorne | lardman: here it is just football |
| 22:05.36 | thomasjfox | dan2003: Do some dbus monitoring on the session/system bus, if you are lucky you'll catch the signal to generate the beep |
| 22:05.38 | lardman | my mother is an Aussie, so football has many meanings |
| 22:06.09 | *** part/#maemo Sicelo (~knoppix@41.215.145.1) |
| 22:06.28 | lardman | and the camp game in which people fall over clutching their ankles doesn't really count |
| 22:07.05 | lardman | perhaps it's the beer making me vocalise, but it's still how I feel :) |
| 22:07.16 | blackthorne | lardman: I like an english player called Lampard and Gerard |
| 22:07.39 | blackthorne | I think they are english though |
| 22:07.55 | lardman | I know the names, but really don't follow "football" at all |
| 22:08.38 | blackthorne | dinner and concert time, leaving |
| 22:08.52 | blackthorne | bye |
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| 22:09.58 | lardman | bye |
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| 22:17.56 | slonopotamus | so. any n8x0 users are still there? |
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| 22:18.27 | javispedro | 's N810 is at this moment in a reboot cycle due to bad battery and bme's bug, hopefully will eventually snap out of it. |
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| 22:25.04 | makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer got it!! i was trying to connect from usb3 port used usb2 port and ssh just worked! |
| 22:25.49 | makulkar_laptop | thanks for all the help! |
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| 22:32.35 | javispedro | *sigh* |
| 22:34.07 | javispedro | so, my stupid ISP does this every two years: 1) send a PR telling how much they care about IPv6 2) register a new domain like "$providerName-ipv6-rules.com" or "ip6-its-time-$providerName.com" 3) advertise lots of services on the domain (4to6, 6to4, get your free ipv6 router, you name it), 4) let it rot for a year, 5) rinse repeat |
| 22:34.57 | slonopotamus | my grandma said they're out of ipv4 adresses |
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| 22:35.55 | javispedro | that's the reason they've shortened the cycle today and went from 5 to 1 in a year instead of two. |
| 22:36.20 | javispedro | they did not even let the previous ipv6-rules.com domain expire |
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| 23:34.43 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Epic OC fatality: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68795 |
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| 23:56.32 | Loveable_rouge | this IRC is strange |
| 23:56.52 | psycho_oreos | maybe you're strange |
| 23:56.58 | Loveable_rouge | not even sure i understand it lol |
| 23:57.28 | arp | irc is simple, clean and beatiful :) |
| 23:57.33 | toresbe | you have to type in your credit card details in order to ask questions. They will be used for, er, age verification. |
| 23:58.31 | Loveable_rouge | @toresbe haha funny wasnt born yesterday !! |
| 23:59.09 | villager | not yesterday? sounds like a good enough age verification |
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