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| 00:04.51 | Venemo | achipa: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-491 |
| 00:05.13 | Venemo | trumee: um, this is embarassing. I don't know the URL where people can vote for it |
| 00:05.30 | villager | Venemo: looks like such voting is done from the "Extras-testing QA queue", also linked from maemo.org/packages |
| 00:07.28 | achipa | Venemo: considering qtcreator is the 'glue' for the SDK I doubt that will get a positive response (a.k.a. confusing developers), but one can always hope... |
| 00:07.30 | villager | it's really for testing though, not just voting... |
| 00:08.20 | achipa | (the biggest argument being that starting with 1.1 stable there won't be a need for separate installs) |
| 00:10.06 | Venemo | villager: it's been tested and proven many times. I was just lazy to promote |
| 00:10.20 | Venemo | achipa: at my record, I had 4 instances of Qt Creator installed |
| 00:10.59 | achipa | Venemo: heh, at some point while doing SDK verification I think I had about 6... |
| 00:11.06 | villager | Venemo: well, the system is that once a version is moved into extras-testing, testers go and test it and "votes" up the karma if it passes their QA |
| 00:11.15 | Venemo | achipa: right now I'll only have 3. 1 from Qt SDK 1.1, 1 from MeeGo SDK, and the nightly I'm actually going to use |
| 00:11.25 | Venemo | villager: yes, I'm familiar with it |
| 00:11.40 | villager | Venemo: does it already have enough karma, then? |
| 00:11.51 | Venemo | villager: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/sticky-notes/0.3.0/ -> where is the link to the voting page? |
| 00:12.02 | achipa | Venemo: that's extras-devel |
| 00:12.11 | achipa | s/devel/testing/ :) |
| 00:13.08 | villager | Venemo: it'll appear when the link to its presence in extras-testing appears... the db is probably not updated instantly, wait a couple of hours maybe |
| 00:13.20 | Venemo | oh, okay then |
| 00:14.20 | achipa | Venemo: well, meego is sdk is also going to merge into the Qt SDK (not in the 1.1 timeframe tho), so in the end, you'll have SDK + nightly |
| 00:14.58 | achipa | s/meego is/meego's/ time to sleep, duh |
| 00:15.09 | Venemo | achipa: hehe |
| 00:15.33 | Venemo | achipa: yes, and the packaging issue is also going to be solved in a future stable release |
| 00:15.40 | Venemo | achipa: so it converges to 1 :) |
| 00:16.02 | Venemo | achipa: btw, please tell me that Qt Creator doesn't have this packaging mess with MeeGo |
| 00:16.11 | achipa | one sdk to rule them all, and in the ... errm... cloud... compile them ? :P |
| 00:16.45 | Venemo | :D |
| 00:16.48 | achipa | achipa: define packaging mess :) |
| 00:17.22 | Venemo | achipa: I mean, it won't want to make rpms like it makes debs unnecessarily? |
| 00:18.09 | achipa | it shouldn't... though this is target specific, so would depend on the meego deploy/publish path |
| 00:18.38 | achipa | but I assume that if the maemo target does it right, the meego one will use a similar mechanism |
| 00:18.55 | Venemo | achipa: mhm |
| 00:19.05 | achipa | (as the differences if you leave out deb/rpm from the picture, are in fact, minimal) |
| 00:19.15 | Venemo | achipa: btw, did you know that text input is broken in PR 1.3? |
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| 00:19.35 | achipa | ummm... no ? (which one) ? |
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| 00:20.08 | Venemo | achipa: I can't input capital letters of any Hungarian symbols :( |
| 00:20.20 | Venemo | achipa: (I made a keyboard remap) |
| 00:20.23 | achipa | hungarian is broken by design :P |
| 00:20.38 | Venemo | achipa: it works in Gtk applications and it also worked in Qt apps in PR 1.2 |
| 00:20.44 | achipa | kutya'majomsa'g |
| 00:21.22 | Venemo | achipa: so I can't input capital ÃÃÃÅÃÃÃÅ°Ã letters, only the non-capital ones |
| 00:21.53 | Venemo | achipa: I mapped Fn key combos to the keys which don't have one by default |
| 00:22.15 | Venemo | achipa: I asked some Qt guys about a possible fix, but they said that this is not supported so I can go to hell and fix it myself |
| 00:22.28 | achipa | the whole input method thingy is a bit of a hack because Qt needed to be shoehorned on top of hildon... so it acts weird occasionally (i.e. not every input box is what it seems to be :) ) |
| 00:22.43 | Venemo | achipa: they also pointed me to a few thousand lines long cpp file... |
| 00:23.01 | achipa | yes, that was the "bit of a hack" part :) |
| 00:23.14 | Venemo | achipa: "shoehorned on top of hildon" -> ridiculous excuse. KDE apps can run on top of Gnome without any issues. |
| 00:23.43 | achipa | gnome does (a lot) less input method juggling |
| 00:24.12 | achipa | not to mention that we have n900 specific hildon hacks in the first place - so it's a hack of a hack |
| 00:24.13 | Venemo | I just hope it will be solvable in MeeGo |
| 00:25.16 | Venemo | achipa: hack of a hack of a hack of a hack... that's what I see a lot in Maemo :( |
| 00:25.59 | achipa | yes, well, hopefully (though TBH I would expect a lot of 'differentiation' done exactly on input methods so it's always an opportunity to bork something) |
| 00:26.17 | Venemo | :D |
| 00:27.08 | Venemo | achipa: slightly OT in here, but still. do you have a MeeGo installation on an N900 at hand? |
| 00:28.01 | achipa | nope... must admit that I did not play with that combo for quite a while now |
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| 00:28.20 | achipa | (well, essentially since 1.1 got released) |
| 00:28.27 | Venemo | achipa: I'm just curious about whether it is possible to make a phone call with the earpiece yet |
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| 00:29.01 | Venemo | achipa: in the 1.1 times Sts said it's not possible because of the lack of an audio policy framework, whose ETA is 1.2 |
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| 00:29.20 | Venemo | achipa: now that 1.2 is in beta, noone knows and I don't have a 4GB microSD in handy to test |
| 00:29.28 | achipa | Venemo: huh, no idea, really... I know the HAL guys were saying that SOMETHING was done recently but not sure if it applies to phone calls |
| 00:30.36 | Venemo | achipa: also, they complained in #meego about Nokia not releasing the N900 hw specs for the MeeGo guys. |
| 00:30.43 | Venemo | achipa: I found this utterly ridiculous |
| 00:30.56 | achipa | ? define spects |
| 00:30.58 | achipa | specs |
| 00:31.12 | Venemo | achipa: something about N900 and ofono |
| 00:31.20 | Venemo | achipa: I'm not sure about the details |
| 00:32.27 | Venemo | achipa: see http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2011-01-31.log.html#t2011-01-31T12:20:49 and the comments of thiago_home |
| 00:32.31 | achipa | telephony is always a pain point, because of 'assorted secrets', so I'm not entirely surprised |
| 00:33.31 | Venemo | yeah |
| 00:34.09 | Venemo | it is a lot annoying though. |
| 00:34.34 | achipa | the funky biz of drivers and specs - even if you have access to stuff (via NDA or sorts) at some point it gets to legal because of distribution/publishing and then stuff gets hairy real quick |
| 00:35.20 | Venemo | achipa: okay, but I still think it's ridiculous |
| 00:35.40 | achipa | Venemo: you will hardly find a sane engineer who thinks otherwise (Nokian or not) |
| 00:36.00 | Venemo | achipa: if a company decides that it likes free & open source sw, then it should act accordingly. |
| 00:38.04 | achipa | Venemo: that could work if we had a full vertical, from silicon manufacturing through middleware to end products - the reality, however is that there is plenty of stuff done by others |
| 00:38.15 | Venemo | achipa: I'm happy to see that Nokia did the right thing in many areas regarding MeeGo, but telephony is something that should be also treated the right way |
| 00:38.18 | achipa | (where others not necessarily means different companies) |
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| 00:38.57 | achipa | but there are these little isolated forts that are really-really difficult to make OSS friendly |
| 00:39.17 | Venemo | yeah achipa, I can understand that |
| 00:40.44 | Venemo | achipa: anyway, if the situation doesn't get solved by the time MeeGo becomes a consumer product, I'll just sell the N900 and buy a cheap phone for phoning and a tablet for MeeGo :P |
| 00:42.04 | achipa | ah, meego as a consumer product... that time can't come too soon either :) |
| 00:42.25 | Venemo | achipa: I don't think there's much left until then |
| 00:42.48 | achipa | two months, tops ! (pandora timeframe :P ) |
| 00:43.08 | SpeedEvil | N9 is going to ship and take inspiration from neo1973. You start it up, and it boots linux, into a kernel panic as there is no rootfs. |
| 00:43.56 | achipa | SpeedEvil: careful, it just might be true ! :D |
| 00:45.35 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: did neo1973 really boot into a kernel panic? |
| 00:45.55 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 00:46.17 | SpeedEvil | You could see that the screen was awesome, even so |
| 00:47.44 | Venemo | hehe |
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| 01:05.12 | GuySoft | hey, does anyone here know of a twitter client that will actually work on the nokia N810? they all stoped since oauth :( |
| 01:06.51 | Venemo | GuySoft: maybe you could try to poke the author of a twitter client for the N900 |
| 01:06.56 | Venemo | GuySoft: or just use the web page |
| 01:07.38 | GuySoft | Venemo, the new twitter crawls on the N810 |
| 01:07.58 | GuySoft | Venemo, who is the author of the N900 twitter client? |
| 01:08.36 | SpeedEvil | khertan ? |
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| 01:11.56 | Venemo | GuySoft: there are multiple apps |
| 01:12.05 | Venemo | GuySoft: I'm not familiar with any of them. (I don't use twitter) |
| 01:12.29 | GuySoft | ah.. |
| 01:13.12 | Venemo | GuySoft: maybe search on TMO |
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| 01:18.00 | Venemo | good evening now guys |
| 01:18.07 | Venemo | achipa, thanks for the discussion |
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| 01:18.41 | lcuk | GuySoft, poke khertan |
| 01:19.08 | lcuk | for the longest time his apps worked well on n810, hopefully he carried on thinking with khweuter |
| 01:19.17 | lcuk | (spelling is off probably |
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| 01:54.32 | jonwil | bah, still no word from Nokia Care about my replacement N900 :( |
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| 02:17.26 | GNUtoo|laptop | Vanadis, I tried flashing rootfs with flasher |
| 02:17.35 | GNUtoo|laptop | still the same error |
| 02:25.42 | GNUtoo|laptop | hi DocScrutinizer |
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| 02:43.01 | zutesmog | Anyone looked at this yet http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/02/flash-10-1-nokia-n900-maemo/ supposed flash 10,1 plugin. |
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| 02:48.16 | wmarone | yes, again, it's the TI release being distributed in violation of the license agreement |
| 02:49.19 | zutesmog | ahh. |
| 02:49.22 | zutesmog | not nice |
| 02:50.04 | ieatlint | yeah, how dare you pirate software that adobe typically gives away for free in support of their own economic benefit |
| 02:50.18 | ieatlint | they're going to lose money because you chose to use their software |
| 02:50.27 | ieatlint | shame on you |
| 02:50.35 | wmarone | well it makes the community look bad |
| 02:51.00 | wmarone | that adobe doesn't make an effort to ensure it's done legitimately is their own problem :) |
| 02:51.12 | ieatlint | i'd argue it makes the community look frustrated |
| 02:51.28 | wmarone | yeah but the community is antsy and self-hating as it is |
| 02:52.07 | zutesmog | the problem I see is its an opaque binary from an untrusted source, so unless someone can verify it, who knows it could be nasty ;-) |
| 02:52.10 | ieatlint | then what are you trying to defend? :P |
| 02:52.18 | wmarone | nothing, I'm just pointing out a fact :P |
| 02:52.36 | ieatlint | zutesmog: you just described flash in general :) |
| 02:54.35 | zutesmog | ;-) |
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| 02:57.50 | GNUtoo|laptop | ah it seem to have flashed maemo |
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| 03:06.34 | GNUtoo|laptop | so it now works |
| 03:26.43 | GeneralAntilles | Taxes filed, woo! |
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| 04:06.16 | GNUtoo|laptop | what are the right args for ubiformat and ubinize? |
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| 04:06.25 | GNUtoo|laptop | the one found on the forum here don't work : |
| 04:06.35 | GNUtoo|laptop | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35554&highlight=ubinize |
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| 04:35.18 | wmarone | heh |
| 04:35.24 | wmarone | reggie should just shut TMO down |
| 04:35.32 | wmarone | pieces of crap like PradaBrada have the run of the place |
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| 06:25.46 | RobbieThe1st_ | That was ...odd... My PC just paused for a second. I see "NVRM: os_schedule: Attempted to yield the CPU while in atomic or interrupt context" in the system log. |
| 06:25.55 | RobbieThe1st_ | What happened? |
| 06:26.05 | johnx | overheating? |
| 06:26.21 | RobbieThe1st | 116F, probably not |
| 06:27.23 | johnx | that's the end of my guesses :) |
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| 06:28.47 | RobbieThe1st | Hm. Looks like it's probably the darn 260.19.29 Nvidia driver. :\ I may very well downgrade back to the 256 driver. |
| 06:29.15 | johnx | I seem to be on 260.19.06 |
| 06:29.31 | johnx | Are you tracking a PPA or installing manually or something? |
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| 06:29.53 | RobbieThe1st | Manually, on my Debian Squeeze system |
| 06:30.11 | johnx | laptop or desktop? |
| 06:30.20 | RobbieThe1st | the latter |
| 06:30.51 | johnx | well, luckily it seems you're not alone |
| 06:30.58 | RobbieThe1st | Custom build; GTX 260 216-core card; 4GB of ram; Phenom II x4 955 |
| 06:31.05 | RobbieThe1st | Yea |
| 06:31.23 | RobbieThe1st | Huh... that's Odd. Just did it again |
| 06:31.29 | johnx | close to a clone of my machine :) |
| 06:31.59 | RobbieThe1st | Might have something to do with either Runescape in OpenGL mode, or KMPlayer playing via OpenGL.. |
| 06:32.00 | RST38h | heya johnx |
| 06:32.13 | johnx | mornin' RST38h |
| 06:33.17 | RST38h | Robbie: It probably managed to interrupt the interrupt handler |
| 06:33.26 | RobbieThe1st | Odd |
| 06:33.38 | RST38h | Some driver may have a problem |
| 06:35.20 | Sc0rpius | I dunno but it looks I'm in 260.99 |
| 06:35.50 | RobbieThe1st | That's the thing about closed-source drivers: When they work, everything's fine. When they don't, you just want to yell at the idiots in charge. |
| 06:36.11 | RST38h | The same thing occurs with open-source drivers. |
| 06:36.37 | Sc0rpius | the only difference is that maybe you could have a chance to fix it yourself with open-source drivers |
| 06:36.44 | Sc0rpius | but you'd still yelling at people |
| 06:36.53 | Sc0rpius | +be |
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| 06:37.44 | RobbieThe1st | Sc0rpius: True, but usually with those, someone else has already done the yelling for me. |
| 06:38.09 | RobbieThe1st | And has a patch or PPA available with the improved version |
| 06:38.21 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: If you are not familiar with kernel programming or programming at all, you still do not have a chance to fix it. |
| 06:38.34 | RST38h | A lot of "open source advocates" miss this particular point. |
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| 06:39.23 | johnx | This would cast nVidia in a bad light except that ATi's Linux drivers are pretty bad (last time I looked) |
| 06:40.02 | RobbieThe1st | That's extremely true. Last time I tried to run a decent OpenGL app on my ATi-based laptop, it flickered with Compiz enabled. For some odd reason. |
| 06:40.21 | RobbieThe1st | I haven't had -much- trouble with Nvidia drivers. |
| 06:41.03 | Sc0rpius | well that's the "chance": that you might be familiar with it |
| 06:41.21 | Sc0rpius | of course if we're talking about nVidia drivers is very unlikely for common developers to fix things there |
| 06:41.33 | Sc0rpius | and nVidia drivers for windows, even worse. |
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| 06:42.09 | johnx | RobbieThe1st, to say nothing of the fact that they tend to offer a fraction of the card's true potential in linux |
| 06:42.22 | RobbieThe1st | Eh... Even with the "closed" nvidia drivers, there's some sort of interface that needs to be compiled at install time. And when -that- fails with new kernels, people -do- put out patches. |
| 06:42.29 | Sc0rpius | that's why people should not use Linux as workstation OS |
| 06:42.39 | Sc0rpius | and I should go to bed before the haters start to hate |
| 06:42.40 | Sc0rpius | hehe |
| 06:42.48 | RobbieThe1st | Eh, I disagree. They shouldn't use it for Gaming perhaps. |
| 06:42.56 | johnx | Sc0rpius, are you recommending Sun^WOracle or Mac? |
| 06:43.11 | Sc0rpius | it's funny, you have a GTX260 one of the most powerful video cards out there, using Linux? |
| 06:43.16 | RobbieThe1st | But workstation? Unless you're using Compiz, you don't need much card, just like on Windows XP. |
| 06:43.39 | RobbieThe1st | Yup... and I game on it. I can even play TF2 remarkably well through Wine. |
| 06:44.14 | Sc0rpius | I still prefer to have a W7 as my main workstation computer. Always running an ubuntu with VMWare Player 24/7 in a second monitor |
| 06:44.17 | RobbieThe1st | But my gaming requirements are fairly low, considering.... I just couldn't stand Windows any longer when I switched. |
| 06:44.27 | Sc0rpius | mostly for scratchbox (developing for the N900) |
| 06:44.52 | johnx | Sc0rpius, Then I hope you don't mind if I take your suggestion about 'workstation' OS with a grain of salt ;) |
| 06:45.18 | Sc0rpius | W7 is fairly stable I haven't had the first problem with it and I've been using it for a while |
| 06:45.46 | Sc0rpius | lack of software and incompatibility with the rest of the world pushes me away from Linux, Mac and other crap as a workstation OS |
| 06:45.54 | RobbieThe1st | Sc0rpius: Tell that to my laptop, which, after 8 months of working right decided that it was not genuine anymore. |
| 06:45.55 | Sc0rpius | at job, all servers are Solaris |
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| 06:46.14 | johnx | Sc0rpius, let's just agree to disagree |
| 06:46.15 | Sc0rpius | heh |
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| 06:46.43 | RobbieThe1st | I haven't had a -single- licence issue with my Linux boxes! :3 |
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| 06:47.38 | Sc0rpius | and hey I've been using Linux for a while, but never got me. I still remember the fights between Torvalds and Andrew Tannenbaum in the newsgroups fighting for Minix back in '92 |
| 06:47.45 | RST38h | hasn't had a single license issue with his Win7 box. So, what is the point/ |
| 06:47.47 | RST38h | ? |
| 06:47.53 | Sc0rpius | I was at the university at the time |
| 06:48.00 | Sc0rpius | yeah me neither |
| 06:48.14 | Sc0rpius | and I have a laptop, a desktop and a netbook all running W7 |
| 06:48.15 | luke-jr | Sc0rpius: you're crazy. |
| 06:48.20 | RST38h | Sc0: That was not a "fight". That was a spanking. |
| 06:48.32 | luke-jr | *Windows* is incompatible with the rest of the world. |
| 06:48.46 | luke-jr | GNU/Linux runs more software than any other OS |
| 06:48.49 | RST38h | And it has left poor Torvalds psychologically damaged for the rest of his life |
| 06:49.01 | Sc0rpius | well after that, actually several months later, a Kernel 1.1.3 was released with whatever became "Slackware", I installed that |
| 06:49.05 | Sc0rpius | it was fun because nothing worked |
| 06:49.09 | luke-jr | Sc0rpius: also, GTX is nVidia, which are crap. |
| 06:49.16 | Sc0rpius | so after you made it all your hardware work, it was boring. |
| 06:49.18 | Sc0rpius | dude |
| 06:49.20 | RobbieThe1st | Y'know, it's surprising. For me, I've had less issues with Linux "Just working" than I have with my Mom's iMac, or the various family XP systems. |
| 06:49.32 | Sc0rpius | so I guess you are: ATi fan, AMD fan, Linux fan? |
| 06:49.42 | Sc0rpius | people like you are shot when they are born where I come from |
| 06:49.51 | Sc0rpius | you should be: Intel fan, nVidia fan, Windows fan |
| 06:49.52 | luke-jr | Sc0rpius: ATi is far better than nVidia |
| 06:49.52 | johnx | alright, soooo, OS flamewar time? |
| 06:49.53 | `Ika_Musume | ati dont exist anymore |
| 06:49.53 | RST38h | Robbie: We have all got the point. There is no need to repeat it. |
| 06:49.58 | luke-jr | but even my Intel IGP outperforms both |
| 06:50.02 | `Ika_Musume | its all amd now |
| 06:50.32 | `Ika_Musume | amd sux yea |
| 06:50.34 | Sc0rpius | that's not what Tomshardware's benchmark are saying |
| 06:50.41 | `Ika_Musume | i got an 6core |
| 06:50.46 | luke-jr | Sc0rpius: Tom is an idiot Windozeluser |
| 06:50.50 | Sc0rpius | hah |
| 06:51.06 | luke-jr | https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison |
| 06:51.10 | `Ika_Musume | lol amd never beat intel |
| 06:51.10 | Sc0rpius | I'd never buy an ATi |
| 06:51.16 | luke-jr | GTX580 can only do 119 MH/s |
| 06:51.24 | johnx | can we all just agree that FreeBSD is the best and leave it at that? |
| 06:51.29 | luke-jr | Radeon 5970 can do 535 MH/s |
| 06:51.31 | RST38h | johnx: Yeah. |
| 06:51.34 | luke-jr | johnx: s/best/dead/ |
| 06:51.38 | `Ika_Musume | amd ati still beat nvidia |
| 06:51.46 | johnx | luke-jr, it's not dead, it's pining for the fjords |
| 06:51.48 | Sc0rpius | that's a biased link |
| 06:51.52 | luke-jr | AMD's best video card is over 4 times better than nVidia's |
| 06:52.00 | luke-jr | Sc0rpius: no, it's not. |
| 06:52.04 | Sc0rpius | no AMD is faster than its equivalent Intel CPU |
| 06:52.12 | `Ika_Musume | amd have best video card and the worst drivers |
| 06:52.27 | `Ika_Musume | also amd cards run cooler |
| 06:52.27 | luke-jr | Sc0rpius: equivalency is determined by speed. so by definition, they're the same speed if they're equivalent. |
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| 06:52.31 | johnx | Sc0rpius, I have to admit, I'm intrigued by your definition of 'equivalent' |
| 06:52.43 | RobbieThe1st | AMD is good for low-cost power; Intel has the top-end single-core-performance market |
| 06:52.58 | `Ika_Musume | amd dies soon |
| 06:52.59 | Sc0rpius | well each processor is different so they are hard to compare |
| 06:53.07 | `Ika_Musume | no one ever buy amd |
| 06:53.09 | luke-jr | RobbieThe1st: Sandy Bridge blew away all AMD's offerings completely. sorry. |
| 06:53.14 | Sc0rpius | you can't compare two CPUs with the same frequency, they could report different MIPS |
| 06:53.17 | johnx | though I have to admit, I still miss BeOS features from time to time |
| 06:53.36 | RST38h | johnx: I do think it is time for a few /ignores |
| 06:53.51 | johnx | like /ignore #maemo --for-the-night? |
| 06:53.54 | RST38h | johnx: Getting too old for yet-another-boring-pointless-os-flamewar |
| 06:54.01 | RobbieThe1st | luke-jr: Yea, you'd expect something two years old to be outperformed :\ |
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| 06:54.03 | RST38h | johnx: Naah, too radical |
| 06:54.09 | johnx | jeez, I'm 27 and I feel too old for this crap |
| 06:54.18 | `Ika_Musume | lol |
| 06:54.18 | johnx | This was fun when I was like 14 |
| 06:54.28 | luke-jr | RobbieThe1st: AMD needs to get its act in order with Bulldozer or they're dead |
| 06:54.36 | Sc0rpius | I hope they're dead |
| 06:54.40 | Sc0rpius | the world doesn't need them |
| 06:54.41 | Sc0rpius | :) |
| 06:54.44 | `Ika_Musume | i live laptop wise i gave up and solsd all my amd comps |
| 06:54.47 | RST38h | johnx: And that was about time when it ended, most hardware being the same nowadays |
| 06:55.00 | luke-jr | Sc0rpius: when AMD can't compete, Intel gets lazy |
| 06:55.05 | RobbieThe1st | ^^ |
| 06:55.12 | Sc0rpius | that's true |
| 06:55.17 | luke-jr | also, AMD is friendlier |
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| 06:55.28 | Sc0rpius | and that happens in all free markets around the world |
| 06:55.43 | `Ika_Musume | ismamd even a treath to intel? amd have like 16% of the market |
| 06:55.49 | johnx | RST38h, for desktops/servers? yeah. I am interested in the Cortex-A9 these days, but that's about it |
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| 06:56.05 | RobbieThe1st | Intel added "Intel Insider". I can't forgive them for that - If AMD goes down, hm... ARM on the desktop might be interesting. |
| 06:56.26 | luke-jr | AMD competes better than ARM |
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| 06:56.56 | `Ika_Musume | amr is mobile cpu amd is desktop |
| 06:57.03 | luke-jr | maybe AMD should die, and force Intel to split for anti-trust |
| 06:57.05 | luke-jr | :P |
| 06:57.19 | Sc0rpius | I hope Apple dies too |
| 06:57.20 | johnx | In my head I'm just replacing all the brand names with $foo $bar and $baz |
| 06:57.22 | luke-jr | nah, Intel would bail AMD out before that happens |
| 06:57.27 | Sc0rpius | and that's it, everything else can live |
| 06:57.52 | RST38h | johnx: yea, the mobile stuff has not stabilized yet |
| 06:57.55 | luke-jr | btw |
| 06:58.00 | `Ika_Musume | i bet amd is give up soon |
| 06:58.01 | luke-jr | good luck getting a Sandy Bridge system now :p |
| 06:58.04 | Sc0rpius | actually Intel needs AMD, so they can't say it's not a monopoly but still control like 90% of the PC market |
| 06:58.18 | RST38h | johnx: but it is also stabilizing into bland 4" slates running Android on top of a Samsung CPU |
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| 06:58.37 | luke-jr | you can't buy any SB motherboards anymore |
| 06:58.57 | RobbieThe1st | Yea; I heard about the glitch. Ouch for intel |
| 06:59.04 | luke-jr | yay for me |
| 06:59.15 | luke-jr | I'm gonna get NewEgg to upgrade my replacement board :P |
| 06:59.24 | RobbieThe1st | It might just give AMD the edge it needs |
| 06:59.36 | johnx | RST38h, have to disagree on the form factor thing. There are more sizes/shapes of smartphones today than there were two years ago |
| 06:59.40 | luke-jr | RobbieThe1st: how? |
| 06:59.48 | luke-jr | RobbieThe1st: it's just a short delay and lots of $$$ down the tube |
| 06:59.54 | RobbieThe1st | By delaying SB for a bit. |
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| 07:00.03 | luke-jr | it doesn't set Intel's production back much really |
| 07:00.44 | johnx | 4" screens just weren't done 2 years ago, and now it's common. And there were *no* 7 inch tablets. Now we have a nice list to choose from |
| 07:00.47 | RST38h | johnx: Go visit your local BestBuy. See how many shapes are available. |
| 07:00.52 | RST38h | "When SCP containment teams came into contact with SCP-421, Principal ???? was working on a proof alongside the corpse of Mr. ????." |
| 07:00.54 | luke-jr | know what would make me extremely happy with AMD or Intel? |
| 07:01.01 | luke-jr | if they open sourced the microcode |
| 07:01.23 | luke-jr | then someone could rewrite it to run ARM or PPC instructions instead |
| 07:01.27 | RobbieThe1st | You forget the shipping/storage and other companies production - The new product has to get shipped to a mfgr, then added to motherboards, then shipped to the stores... It'll take a couple weeks. |
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| 07:01.43 | luke-jr | RobbieThe1st: I doubt weeks hurt in the big picture |
| 07:01.49 | johnx | RST38h, a couple landscape sliders, a couple in the 3" range. a couple in the 4" range, and 7" tablets |
| 07:01.52 | luke-jr | although I hope it doesn't delay Q67 much |
| 07:02.02 | RobbieThe1st | It can't -help-/ |
| 07:02.28 | luke-jr | it would be awesome to run PPC on an Intel/AMD proc |
| 07:02.29 | luke-jr | :P |
| 07:02.49 | RobbieThe1st | Y'know, the sad thing about tablets is that I haven't seen any 7"ers that have a 1024x800 or so screen |
| 07:03.05 | RobbieThe1st | Like 800.480 till you get to 10 inchers |
| 07:03.18 | Sc0rpius | wanna take a peak at my Modest in tree view mode? |
| 07:03.19 | RST38h | johnx: Yep |
| 07:03.20 | johnx | doesn't the galaxy tab do 1024x600? |
| 07:03.22 | Sc0rpius | http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/892/screenshot2011020202321.png |
| 07:03.34 | RST38h | johnx: Dunno, it certainlylooks like this |
| 07:03.38 | Sc0rpius | I really hated that I couldn't collapse subfolders. |
| 07:03.41 | johnx | RST38h, and two years ago we didn't have the 4" or 7" category at all |
| 07:04.05 | RST38h | johnx: Yes, but we are talking 4" slate, smaller slate, bigger slate, and a slate with slideout keyboard |
| 07:04.29 | johnx | RST38h, so what shape do you want? a cylinder? a regular tetrahedron? |
| 07:04.31 | johnx | :P |
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| 07:05.33 | `Ika_Musume | why not get an cowon 3g? |
| 07:05.44 | `Ika_Musume | beter tehn every moboile |
| 07:05.47 | johnx | and more to the point: what form factor did we have in the past that we've lost now? |
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| 07:10.01 | RST38h | johnx: We have lost the E70! |
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| 07:10.31 | RST38h | johnx: And all we have got is a freaking slate, that is not even comfortable to hold to you ear =) |
| 07:10.44 | RST38h | [Sidenote: Fennec 4b4 == FAIL] |
| 07:10.52 | johnx | ah, great |
| 07:10.56 | johnx | I just finished installing it |
| 07:11.03 | johnx | guess I don't need to bother running it :| |
| 07:11.19 | RST38h | You can try, the loading time was 30-40 seconds for me |
| 07:11.35 | RST38h | Took a few minutes to load a web page, swapping all the time, I guess |
| 07:12.03 | johnx | so is your complaint more about actual physical shape, rather than "form factor" exactly? |
| 07:12.17 | RST38h | johnx: I had no complaints :) |
| 07:12.25 | johnx | <_< |
| 07:12.27 | johnx | >_> |
| 07:12.35 | RST38h | johnx: But if you put it this way, then yes, I dislike hw being commoditized |
| 07:13.15 | RST38h | johnx: I hate modern cars, which all look the same. I hate modern laptops, which all look the same. And the same commoditization is happening with the mobile devices |
| 07:13.32 | johnx | I have to admit I like the part of 'commoditized' where prices fall through the floor and competition goes way up |
| 07:13.45 | RST38h | That's true, yes |
| 07:13.48 | kerio | RST38h: so buy a macbook! |
| 07:13.51 | kerio | ducks |
| 07:13.58 | johnx | though, I've resisted the commoditization of the desktop |
| 07:14.01 | RST38h | But the goods all become the same. |
| 07:14.09 | johnx | mine is still as ugly as the late'90s |
| 07:14.23 | RST38h | Desktops just plain died out |
| 07:14.36 | johnx | in terms of 'innovation'? |
| 07:14.39 | Sc0rpius | whoa? |
| 07:14.45 | RST38h | johnx: as a class |
| 07:14.45 | Sc0rpius | I should hit the bed |
| 07:14.54 | kerio | RST38h: haha yeah right |
| 07:15.05 | kerio | everyone can afford a laptop |
| 07:15.18 | kerio | it's not like we're in an economic crisis |
| 07:15.19 | johnx | RST38h, I mean yeah, but it's where I do all the work for mobile stuff |
| 07:15.21 | RST38h | johnx: Whatever remains is either a hobbyist box (with LEDs and liquid cooling) or a replacement for a DVD player, that can also run Office |
| 07:16.17 | kerio | RST38h: and what's the problem in that? |
| 07:16.39 | kerio | a dreamplug with a usb monitor is more than most people need |
| 07:16.51 | RST38h | writes Fennec off the list of usable apps, again. |
| 07:17.07 | johnx | heh. I wonder if globalscale they figured out the cooling issues this time around ... |
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| 07:17.42 | kerio | johnx: i thought they did |
| 07:17.51 | kerio | that was the point of the new case |
| 07:17.58 | johnx | well, the guruplug was pretty bad |
| 07:18.06 | johnx | do people actually have dreamplugs in hand yet? |
| 07:18.19 | johnx | didn't RTFA |
| 07:18.21 | RST38h | and also sounded like a sex toy. |
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| 07:19.00 | kerio | RST38h: how's that a negative factor? >:D |
| 07:19.10 | kerio | johnx: maybe some demo units, but yeah |
| 07:19.18 | kerio | although i'm not sure |
| 07:19.35 | johnx | I had a pre-order in for a guruplug but canceled it when people started hitting real problems |
| 07:20.07 | johnx | Got a QNAP TS119 instead and it's been fantastic |
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| 07:20.42 | kerio | only has a sheevaplug |
| 07:20.44 | RST38h | There was a web farm company that *rented* people guruplugs, all installed at the farm |
| 07:20.56 | RST38h | for something like $15/mo |
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| 07:21.10 | kerio | RST38h: i bet they cheaped out on the heating |
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| 07:22.44 | johnx | actually rebooted by qnap after 70 days uptime, and freaked out when it didn't come online after a couple minutes. Turns out a fsck.ext4 on a 2TB drive takes a while ... |
| 07:22.55 | johnx | s/by/my/ |
| 07:23.09 | kerio | johnx: fsck on ext4? |
| 07:23.13 | kerio | :< |
| 07:23.24 | kerio | i disabled fsck on my ext3 drive |
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| 07:24.29 | johnx | apparently I didn't :) |
| 07:24.49 | kerio | btw, can i borrow a tb or something |
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| 07:24.59 | kerio | i seriously need to defrag it |
| 07:25.18 | johnx | don't have much left. I've been using it to store backups |
| 07:25.49 | johnx | ah, though I lied. This is actually ext3 |
| 07:25.52 | kerio | apparently downloading multiple romsets without telling transmission to preallocate everything first leads to having a 60% fragmentation rate |
| 07:26.14 | kerio | "ext3 avoids fragmentation" my ass |
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| 07:27.14 | johnx | heh |
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| 07:27.38 | kerio | anyway, i was thinking of something like btrfs |
| 07:27.48 | kerio | is it stable enough yet? |
| 07:28.42 | johnx | I dunno if I'd trust it yet for backups. I might trust it for videos and movies and games |
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| 07:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | "ext3 avoids fragmentation" - alie |
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| 07:39.27 | DocScrutinizer | urban legend |
| 07:40.21 | DocScrutinizer | ext3 fragments as well, if you fill up the drive. It performs good with plenty of free space |
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| 07:40.50 | toresbe | DocScrutinizer: isn't that basically true, then? |
| 07:41.20 | toresbe | DocScrutinizer: that it _avoids_ fragmentation and only begins to fragment when the FS fills up... |
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| 07:43.44 | ShadowJK | it was more true back when vfat allocation algo made one facepalm |
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| 07:50.07 | javispedro | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:35.07 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 08:35.14 | *** mode/#maemo [-q pupnik_!*@*] by DocScrutinizer |
| 08:35.18 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 08:36.48 | RST38h | Poor pupnik has been silenced again? Hm |
| 08:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-01 23:31:30] <pupnik_> and you're a fucking idiot |
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| 08:37.23 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-01 23:32:04] <pupnik_> because you cunts will never believe they can do evil |
| 08:37.26 | *** join/#maemo chris81 (~gruemme@kruzifix.math.tu-berlin.de) |
| 08:37.43 | chris81 | Hello @all |
| 08:38.28 | chris81 | I need some help plz, with the n900 email client. I need to setup an imap path, How do I do that? |
| 08:39.27 | DocScrutinizer | I'm honestly concerned about pupnik's mental health - anyway there's zero tolerance left for his insulting behaviour anymore |
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| 08:40.32 | RST38h | Doc: silcencing him won't make him feel any better though |
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| 08:40.58 | johnx | chris81, looking at it. I'm not entirely certain it supports that ... |
| 08:41.00 | DocScrutinizer | he regularly queries me and honestly thanks for the +q |
| 08:41.35 | johnx | chris81, is this for work or some public email provider? |
| 08:43.02 | chris81 | it is for work |
| 08:43.13 | DocScrutinizer | seriously, common IRC practice is to kick and maybe even temporarily or permanently ban users calling others names like he does |
| 08:44.28 | johnx | chris81, ah. Does mail show up at all without the path entered? |
| 08:45.03 | chris81 | no nothing he is not able to update anything |
| 08:46.05 | chris81 | I think it links to the home of my workingplace and it my be to big entirely scan it. Thunderbird uses the 'Mail' subdirectory |
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| 08:48.00 | chris81 | it is just a thought. The other mail accounts I set up are working |
| 08:48.29 | chris81 | I don"t know where i can find a log file of modest ... |
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| 08:57.15 | chris81 | is there a 'good' email client alternative to test the account |
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| 08:57.25 | DocScrutinizer | p2p networks for Aegypt! |
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| 09:05.13 | djszapi | which package do I need to install in order to have a git inside the scratchbox ? scratchbox-devkit-git is installed, but still not available... |
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| 09:11.32 | MohammadAG | git-core |
| 09:12.05 | alterego | Hey MohammadAG |
| 09:12.20 | MohammadAG | hi alterego |
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| 09:14.02 | djszapi | I do not think it is git core |
| 09:14.11 | djszapi | it is more like scratchbox-devkit-git |
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| 09:14.36 | alterego | sighs |
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| 09:14.59 | MohammadAG | Then why the f did you ask |
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| 09:23.25 | chris81 | @johnx: Did you find somethink ? |
| 09:23.36 | johnx | I didn't see anything in the settings |
| 09:23.44 | johnx | I've also never seen a mail account that needed that |
| 09:24.01 | johnx | Have you tried just giving the N900 some time to process deal with the huge number of emails? |
| 09:24.14 | chris81 | ja |
| 09:24.26 | johnx | Maybe you could install a network or cpu monitor to see if the N900 is doing anything after it connects to the account? |
| 09:24.38 | chris81 | but i think it just gives up |
| 09:25.02 | chris81 | the config files are in /var/lib/gconf/modest/ |
| 09:25.30 | Venemo | hey guys |
| 09:25.32 | johnx | if you create the account, then click click 'New folder' from the menu, does it create one somewhere? |
| 09:25.55 | Venemo | trumee: it's in testing now. are you happy? :) |
| 09:26.00 | Venemo | trumee: vote here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/sticky-notes/0.3.0/ |
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| 09:26.48 | Venemo | guys, please vote for my package: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/sticky-notes/0.3.0/ |
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| 09:28.59 | chris81 | nope |
| 09:29.34 | johnx | chris81, did you look from the other mail client you have? |
| 09:30.00 | chris81 | I got thunderbird on my desktop |
| 09:30.35 | chris81 | i see all my mail folders in the 'Mail' dir of my home |
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| 09:31.14 | chris81 | i thunderbird i donot see the client |
| 09:31.27 | johnx | and if you try to create a folder from the n900 it doesn't show up anywhere in thunderbird? |
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| 09:32.16 | chris81 | no, |
| 09:32.32 | johnx | then I don't really have any ideas :| |
| 09:32.53 | johnx | you could try the email client called 'claws' but it's not that easy to use from a touchscreen |
| 09:32.55 | chris81 | perpas there is a setting the config files to set the imap prefix path |
| 09:33.15 | chris81 | but I need the doc of modest there |
| 09:36.01 | chris81 | thx for your help anyway |
| 09:36.47 | johnx | no problem. good luck |
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| 09:45.03 | Venemo | chris81: modest can be found on gitorious |
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| 09:58.40 | dashavoo | Hey, is there somebody who has Mnemosyne installed on their N900 and can either confirm or... non-confirm a bug for me please? |
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| 10:02.49 | opdf2 | is it possible to do portrait task switcher? |
| 10:03.02 | SpeedEvil | apt-get install mnemosyn |
| 10:03.04 | SpeedEvil | argh |
| 10:03.54 | SpeedEvil | Ok - can't do that on this net connection ATM. |
| 10:04.12 | dashavoo | SpeedEvil: fair enough, thanks anyway |
| 10:04.24 | dashavoo | sooner or later you or someone else will ;) |
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| 10:33.39 | jonwil | bah, still no word from Nokia Care on my replacement N900 :( |
| 10:36.33 | dashavoo | jonwil: what was wrong with the previous one? (I ask because mine is dying a death, slowly but obviously) |
| 10:36.52 | jonwil | The status notification LED and front camera both stopped working |
| 10:38.35 | dashavoo | Hmm, I don't use my front camera, so I have no idea how that is faring. My notification LED does funny things when it is charging, but I think that is a charging issue. |
| 10:38.58 | DocScrutinizer | Flat Plastic Connector cable breakage - or, more precisely, probably the triple layer B2C-connector and second layer jumper board |
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| 10:41.49 | dashavoo | DocScrutinizer: would apt-get dist-upgrade fix it? |
| 10:41.58 | dashavoo | :P |
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| 10:44.24 | SpeedEvil | dashavoo: yes, and that also fixes any scratches in the case, and upgrades the processor to 4GHz. |
| 10:45.31 | dashavoo | SpeedEvil: Awesome =D |
| 10:46.28 | dashavoo | Hmm... I wish I could extend the N900's Skype with "Skype for 3" so I could make free calls without using up my data =( |
| 10:46.45 | dashavoo | I have to go to the pub to use their wifi whenever I want to skype call someone |
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| 10:48.40 | banoz | hi there |
| 10:49.08 | banoz | do you know if is possible to use more usb devices at the same time with the nokia n900? |
| 10:49.10 | ieatlint | you're complaining that you have a reason to go to the pub... :P |
| 10:49.34 | SpeedEvil | banoz: With a hub, in principle, yes. |
| 10:50.51 | banoz | cool |
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| 10:51.06 | banoz | I'll try it and I'll let you know |
| 10:51.08 | dashavoo | ieatlint: I never need a reason to go to the pub, but I would rather be able to sit on my comfy settee and speak to my friends abroad |
| 10:51.51 | ieatlint | i'm sure your friends love it when you call them when drunk |
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| 11:20.43 | Extends | hi all, how to install maemo onn vmware player? |
| 11:20.52 | *** join/#maemo progre55 (~progre55@212-162-171-110.skbbip.com) |
| 11:21.04 | Extends | I need test my app, |
| 11:21.10 | Extends | it is possible? |
| 11:21.21 | progre55 | hi guys. any eta on nokia n9? |
| 11:21.33 | RobbieThe1st | As usual: Nope |
| 11:21.35 | progre55 | but it's probably not the right place to ask that question =) |
| 11:21.47 | progre55 | thanks Robbie) |
| 11:21.57 | RobbieThe1st | Extends: Why not just load it on your n900? |
| 11:22.29 | Extends | because I dont have a n900 ? ; ) |
| 11:22.57 | RobbieThe1st | Then why/how are you developing an app for it? |
| 11:23.45 | RobbieThe1st | Seems a little hard. An emulator won't really give you a good test anyway - at best, you can see if it works. But if it does, you won't know real performance and how it works unless you have a device |
| 11:24.19 | Extends | to put in OviStore |
| 11:25.05 | RobbieThe1st | You are -really- expecting to get an application up to the quality at which you can -sell- without having really tested it? :\ |
| 11:26.50 | Extends | I think so, every single developer needs to have one for that? |
| 11:26.53 | RobbieThe1st | Like I said, you're really going to need an n900 if you expect to develop an app - sure, you might be able to build a QT app for a range of devices and just compile it for the n900... but developing without any sort of compatible hardware's just not going to work |
| 11:27.06 | Extends | and why we have simulator |
| 11:27.28 | alterego | Scratchbox is better than that simulator tbh |
| 11:27.35 | *** part/#maemo progre55 (~progre55@212-162-171-110.skbbip.com) |
| 11:27.40 | RobbieThe1st | AFAIK, we have scratchbox, which is mainly a compiling platform. |
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| 11:28.07 | alterego | Much better test environment, if you _really_ don't have access to the hardware. |
| 11:28.13 | RobbieThe1st | But it doesn't have a GUI or any way to load/run gui apps on it, right? |
| 11:28.31 | alterego | You can also get people here or on tmo to test on real hardware. |
| 11:28.37 | alterego | RobbieThe1st: of course it does. |
| 11:29.03 | Extends | in the moment I use the nokia qt sdk and inside I have a maemo simulator |
| 11:29.03 | alterego | What it doesn't have us hardware simulators for gps, accel, etc. |
| 11:29.21 | alterego | The simulator in Qt SDK is awful to be honest. |
| 11:29.49 | Extends | i know that... but I don't have another way |
| 11:29.52 | alterego | If you want to target maemo I'd suggest setting up scratchbox and getting qt creator to work with scratchbox. |
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| 11:29.56 | RobbieThe1st | It really has an interface like the n900? Like being able to tap buttons, task-switch and such? Or just run individual QT apps on the parent machine? |
| 11:30.02 | Extends | I just have a n82 :( |
| 11:30.04 | alterego | RobbieThe1st: yes |
| 11:30.19 | RobbieThe1st | Which? |
| 11:30.32 | alterego | It has a fully functioning maemo 5 chroot with native UX |
| 11:31.12 | sandst1 | RobbieThe1st: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Maemo_5_SDK_installation_for_beginners#Running_Maemo_5_SDK |
| 11:31.16 | RobbieThe1st | I've got to get a copy working... Last I checked, it was a major pain to get working on x86_64, though |
| 11:31.37 | alterego | RobbieThe1st: works fine for me on 64bit ubuntu 10.10 |
| 11:31.44 | Extends | I have I frien, and that friend has I n900, I will talk to him... |
| 11:31.47 | RobbieThe1st | How did you install it? |
| 11:31.49 | Extends | *friend |
| 11:31.57 | alterego | I manually installed it. |
| 11:32.14 | alterego | But the instructions should work fine tbh |
| 11:32.53 | *** join/#maemo banoz (~ghfgjh@eduroam-wireless-pat3.wireless.bris.ac.uk) |
| 11:32.54 | banoz | hi there |
| 11:33.07 | banoz | what happens if I delete the content of /tmp |
| 11:33.10 | banoz | ? |
| 11:33.16 | alterego | banoz: bad things |
| 11:33.24 | alterego | Depending what you're deleting |
| 11:33.35 | banoz | ok |
| 11:33.43 | banoz | because I get this errror: |
| 11:34.05 | banoz | can't write /tmp/cctn4JLa.o: No space left on device |
| 11:34.18 | banoz | I deleted some space on my home directory |
| 11:34.25 | banoz | is tmp on another partition? |
| 11:34.33 | RobbieThe1st | No... everything -but- /home/ is your rootfs |
| 11:34.42 | RobbieThe1st | (and /opt/) |
| 11:35.02 | RobbieThe1st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:35.09 | banoz | uhm |
| 11:35.11 | RobbieThe1st | *swapfs |
| 11:35.27 | RobbieThe1st | You need to clean space on the rootfs |
| 11:35.29 | RobbieThe1st | um |
| 11:35.31 | banoz | so this message is saying that i have not space on my roofts |
| 11:35.35 | banoz | ok |
| 11:35.44 | RobbieThe1st | http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space |
| 11:35.47 | banoz | uhm so, free packages? |
| 11:35.51 | banoz | ok cool! |
| 11:35.52 | banoz | thx |
| 11:35.59 | RobbieThe1st | run "apt-get clean" as root first |
| 11:36.24 | banoz | already done :( |
| 11:36.45 | RobbieThe1st | Well, follow those instructions |
| 11:37.34 | banoz | I should have 227.8 M fs and used 203.6M |
| 11:37.40 | banoz | so 20,0M available |
| 11:37.40 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.126.252.71) |
| 11:37.56 | banoz | there is still space... very strange... |
| 11:38.04 | RobbieThe1st | try rebooting |
| 11:38.26 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:39.02 | banoz | ok |
| 11:39.04 | RobbieThe1st | alterego: No, I can't install it. Trying to run the scratchbox installer results in a 404 error when trying to download amd64 packages from scratchbox.org |
| 11:39.49 | alterego | Install the 32 bit packages |
| 11:40.04 | alterego | and make sure you have 32 bit lib support installed. |
| 11:40.21 | RobbieThe1st | alright |
| 11:40.57 | RobbieThe1st | Out of curiosity, there's a "harmattan" Scratchbox available - what's that about? |
| 11:41.34 | alterego | Don't know, don't use it. |
| 11:41.56 | RobbieThe1st | yea |
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| 11:45.23 | dashavoo | ok, I know I asked this earlier, but I think enough hours have passed to ask again if anyone has mnemosyne installed and would be willing to try and confirm a bug for me? |
| 11:46.03 | dashavoo | the channel is alot more active now than it was when I first asked |
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| 11:52.28 | ArGGu^^ | RobbieThe1st harmattan was codename for maemo 6 |
| 11:52.52 | RobbieThe1st | ArGGu^^: Yea, but what's the scratchbox of/have/look like? |
| 11:57.57 | ArGGu^^ | RobbieThe1st I didn't understand what you mean by of/have/look? |
| 11:59.15 | ArGGu^^ | I was just thinking that maybe the scratchbox harmattan is version specially made for maemo6 |
| 11:59.53 | ArGGu^^ | or maybe it for meego now |
| 12:00.03 | ArGGu^^ | because there is no maemo 6 |
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| 12:02.59 | mgedmin | woot imgur integration! |
| 12:04.44 | mgedmin | tries to vote for it and notices that maemo.org is glacially slow as usual |
| 12:06.36 | mgedmin | I think this is the right page: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/imgur/0.51-1/ ... |
| 12:06.51 | mgedmin | is now wishing he had a command-line imgur upload tool on his laptop |
| 12:06.57 | mgedmin | there's a weird css bug on maemo.org |
| 12:07.00 | mgedmin | probably nobody cares :( |
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| 12:08.29 | auenf | css bugs rock |
| 12:08.50 | chx | http://www.intomobile.com/2011/02/02/nokia-meego-bug-report-leaks-specs-intel-inside/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IntoMobile+%28IntoMobile%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher |
| 12:09.57 | auenf | err, surely nokias first meego will be arm, not x86? |
| 12:10.16 | chx | i.... do not know |
| 12:10.25 | chx | didnt Intel want to break into this space? |
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| 12:11.00 | auenf | if nokia doesnt want to release an arm meego at all, they wouldnt use n900 as dev device |
| 12:11.44 | chx | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68743 here |
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| 12:13.12 | auenf | still all speculation |
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| 12:15.42 | _berto_ | Groundhog Phil, live from Punxsutawney: http://www.visitpa.com/groundhog-day-live-stream |
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| 12:22.45 | SpeedEvil | http://www.techfortesco.com/forum/index.php?board=1.0 - on the subject of handling a community. |
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| 13:10.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | any hint how to *directly* change the settings-internet-ChangeToWlanIfAvailable setting? I checked system and session dbus... nuttin. Gconf? |
| 13:13.20 | nae | I just added the fremantle/tools repo, is there a key I can add to the apt keyring so I don't get the warnings about the packages not being authenticated? |
| 13:14.18 | DocScrutinizer | errm, never seen this problem |
| 13:14.31 | SpeedEvil | '' |
| 13:17.23 | nae | really. Maybe I added it incorrectly |
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| 13:19.42 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yes, gconf |
| 13:19.56 | jonwil | bah, this is too complicated to reverse engineer |
| 13:20.00 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# diff ch2wlan-on.txt ch2wlan-off.txt |
| 13:20.02 | DocScrutinizer | 1321c1321 |
| 13:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | < change_while_connected = true |
| 13:20.06 | DocScrutinizer | thnx anyway |
| 13:20.22 | jonwil | Trying to reverse engineer the bits that would allow the solving of bug 1002 |
| 13:20.23 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1002 WPA pre-shared key should allow HEX input |
| 13:20.40 | jonwil | but there are 3 .so files full of complex UI code involved |
| 13:20.54 | jonwil | plus various undocumented dependancies of those 3 |
| 13:22.47 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
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| 13:24.44 | nae | no, I've definitely added this tools repo as per the instructions. now when I run apt-get install netcat I get the warning about the package not being authenticated |
| 13:24.44 | jonwil | its all part of connui-conndlgs-internet, connui-iapsettings-wlan and connui-iapsettings |
| 13:25.19 | jonwil | with dependancies on libconnui, libconbtui and libmaemosec_certman |
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| 13:28.04 | DocScrutinizer | gconftool-2 -s /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/change_while_connected -t boolean false |
| 13:28.16 | DocScrutinizer | cmdline execution widget time |
| 13:29.16 | Venemo | I've just updated to the latest Fennec |
| 13:29.24 | Venemo | it's acutally slower than the previous version... :( |
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| 13:37.43 | jonwil | bah, so many things on my list of things that UI want to reverse engineer and I seem to be making no progress on any of them :( |
| 13:38.53 | jonwil | at least I just found out that source code IS available for libmaemosec and libmaemosec_certman and friends |
| 13:39.11 | jonwil | so thats one less thing to care about |
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| 14:20.46 | achipa | X-Fade: heya, could you change the text on hotfix promotion blockage to mention mcsp ? Something like "Warning: Promotion of packages depending on hotfixes is blocked. Please depend on the 'mcsp' package if you need them." |
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| 14:27.42 | DocScrutinizer | man, setting up a few queen-beecon-knobs sucks. Too much chrome, too few sane presets, too little edit and c&p options. I don't even dare to click "advanced" |
| 14:30.19 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I still haven't completely figured how to get rid of all those .png |
| 14:32.28 | DocScrutinizer | probably I should have stayed with desktop cmd execution widget |
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| 14:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | setting up a contact avatar queen-beecon style: type in filename of picture, click "import" at bottom of page three screens scrolldown, in popping up menu select X, Y, width, height, rotation and aspect ratio with 6 sliders, click save&quite. Watch result and start over again |
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| 14:42.34 | alterego | Heh |
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| 14:44.11 | banoz | hi there |
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| 14:45.15 | banoz | my tmp partition is 1.0M used 72.0k. Now I'm compiling a program. How can I increase this space? |
| 14:45.22 | banoz | is it simple? |
| 14:46.17 | chx | you are compiling ... on the N900???? |
| 14:47.32 | banoz | yes |
| 14:47.39 | banoz | chx why? |
| 14:47.59 | lcuk | banoz, you could try symlinking it elsewhere, but not sure how that will effect boot - why does it not have enough space? |
| 14:48.02 | lcuk | what are you building? |
| 14:48.23 | banoz | lcuk, an application that I have written that uses opencv |
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| 14:51.16 | dashavoo | It has been ages since I played with opencv, I should get back to that sometime |
| 14:51.16 | lcuk | banoz, cool stuff |
| 14:51.34 | lcuk | what are you trying to do with it? |
| 14:52.04 | dashavoo | only problem is, when I'm coding all day at work, I don't really feel like coding when I get home (even if I could fit it into my busy evenings) |
| 14:52.21 | banoz | lcuk, at present I'm just experimenting to see if is feasible do some interesting stuff with the N900 |
| 14:52.43 | banoz | the cpu is not so fast but never say never.. |
| 14:52.43 | lcuk | heh its entirely feasible |
| 14:52.50 | lcuk | the cpu is great |
| 14:52.50 | banoz | cool |
| 14:52.54 | banoz | uhm |
| 14:52.59 | banoz | it's 600Mhz |
| 14:53.02 | lcuk | depends on perpective of course |
| 14:53.05 | banoz | yep yep |
| 14:53.11 | lcuk | my code was written for the older 400mhz model ;) |
| 14:53.16 | lcuk | 600mhz is great guns |
| 14:53.19 | banoz | :D |
| 14:53.34 | banoz | and there is also the overclock option... |
| 14:54.38 | lcuk | thats not an option for official build of course so you should not code based on requiring it |
| 14:55.43 | banoz | lcuk, I know but anyway it is good to see that is possible to overclock it up to 1.150 GHz :) |
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| 14:56.06 | lcuk | banoz, but for your own uses, does it make a noticable difference to speed of opencv calculations? |
| 14:57.03 | villager | has arm optimizations been added to opencv now? |
| 14:57.03 | banoz | lcuk, I still don't know but my friend was working with another phone with a low cpu and the results were not so good |
| 14:57.26 | banoz | I hope so :) |
| 14:57.44 | lcuk | banoz, yeah, I have heard other similar tales, even on same hardware |
| 14:58.05 | banoz | it depends on the application.. |
| 14:58.07 | lcuk | I ended up hacking together a custom image recognition thing myself |
| 14:58.16 | banoz | how did it go? |
| 14:59.03 | lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM see for yourself |
| 14:59.12 | banoz | cool |
| 14:59.14 | banoz | ok |
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| 15:00.41 | banoz | this is cool :) |
| 15:00.47 | DocScrutinizer | hell, we had things like realtime FFT and visualization, when CPUs had e.g 133MHz |
| 15:01.05 | lcuk | my amiga could do fft |
| 15:01.12 | dashavoo | aah |
| 15:01.18 | dashavoo | misses his amiga =( |
| 15:01.23 | banoz | yep |
| 15:01.30 | lcuk | i went all the way to Cheshire on a motorbike to pick up a sampler for it :P |
| 15:01.35 | banoz | ahha |
| 15:01.55 | banoz | when I was child my first pc was a 8086 |
| 15:02.03 | dashavoo | a friend actually gave me his a500, the only problem is I have nothing I can connect it to anymore, and I don't have my games anymore. |
| 15:02.04 | banoz | it was great |
| 15:02.14 | banoz | damn... |
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| 15:02.50 | DocScrutinizer | I'm missing the coders that say "the code is too bloated and poorly optimized" - rather I see C++ weirdos that cry for 5GHz quadcore to make their animations work smoothly |
| 15:03.07 | banoz | ahah |
| 15:03.31 | E0x | DocScrutinizer: indeed |
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| 15:04.01 | pradeep_ | pls i want to install telnet on my n900 |
| 15:04.36 | DocScrutinizer | noooo way. For telnet V2 you need at very least a 1GHz CPU :-P |
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| 15:05.00 | lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/telnet/ |
| 15:05.08 | lcuk | pradeep_, then install it :) |
| 15:05.23 | DocScrutinizer | cheers |
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| 15:05.44 | ccooke | lcuk: netcat (or the busybox variant) is probably already installed, too :-) |
| 15:05.54 | lcuk | oh hai Charles \o |
| 15:06.10 | ccooke | Afternoon |
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| 15:06.46 | pradeep_ | lcuk, okay thank let me try it |
| 15:07.51 | pradeep_ | lcuk i can see some many of them pls which do i install |
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| 15:08.40 | lcuk | pradeep_, the link I offered was not for direct install, use the command line "apt-get install telnet" to put it on |
| 15:09.05 | lcuk | you can check repositories required using the link though :) |
| 15:09.54 | pradeep_ | lcuk, it is not in my repo |
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| 15:12.34 | lcuk | pradeep_, then add the extras-devel repository required :) |
| 15:13.04 | pradeep_ | lcuk that is what i wanted to know how to do |
| 15:13.08 | lcuk | goes again screen making eyes sore |
| 15:15.18 | lcuk | pradeep_, DocScrutinizer knows which wiki page explains about -devel |
| 15:15.56 | pradeep_ | DocScrutinizer, please could help me with that |
| 15:15.56 | MohammadAG | ~extras-devel |
| 15:15.57 | infobot | well, extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel |
| 15:16.31 | MohammadAG | lcuk, DocScrutinizer might know it, but infobot knows all! |
| 15:16.41 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 15:16.44 | pradeep_ | infobot, thank you let me try that |
| 15:16.44 | infobot | sure thing, pradeep_ |
| 15:17.23 | lcuk | MohammadAG, well its a bit misaligned, it would be better to point directly at http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel |
| 15:18.00 | lcuk | this is not making my eyes better tho :P closing lid, cya later \o |
| 15:18.26 | MohammadAG | infobot, forget extras-devel |
| 15:18.27 | infobot | MohammadAG: i forgot extras-devel |
| 15:18.27 | MohammadAG | ~extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel |
| 15:18.27 | infobot | MohammadAG: okay |
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| 15:42.04 | banoz | guys, does your opencv library contain the highgui features too? mine doesn't |
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| 16:11.00 | RST38h | Republican politicians in South Dakota have filed a bill that would require every citizen in the land-locked virtually empty state to buy a gun as of next year. |
| 16:11.28 | derf | America, fuck yeah. |
| 16:20.47 | DocScrutinizer | ""I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands"" |
| 16:21.21 | DocScrutinizer | hooray for National Rifle Association |
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| 16:22.04 | derf | I used to drive by their headquarters every day on the way to work. |
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| 16:22.35 | DocScrutinizer | probably they also think rifles are the more economic medical treatment for the poor |
| 16:24.01 | DocScrutinizer | ""health insurance for everybody??? you can get a shot from my winchester"" |
| 16:26.44 | GAN900 | RST38h, that's messed up on several levels. |
| 16:27.04 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, you will have to take my guns from my cold dead hands. |
| 16:27.06 | DocScrutinizer | that == USA? |
| 16:27.37 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, using force to require people to own force. |
| 16:27.51 | GAN900 | I get the reasoning behind it, though. |
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| 16:29.05 | DocScrutinizer | yeahyeah, "if guns get outlawed, only outlaws will get guns" - apply that logic to fission bombs |
| 16:29.06 | GAN900 | More guns, less crime. |
| 16:29.59 | GAN900 | Logical fallacy. |
| 16:30.14 | DocScrutinizer | more nuklear bombs, less war. (and even beetr war if ever it happens to come to it) |
| 16:30.28 | DocScrutinizer | better* |
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| 16:32.13 | DocScrutinizer | I just wonder if everybody need a .22, or would it be better to get a ak47 or a M134D |
| 16:32.37 | RST38h | Doc:In reality, most of these pastry-looking US gun owners would not stand a chance when facing a real threat |
| 16:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | do my MTHELs count? or will I need a .22 as well, when living in South Dakota? |
| 16:33.01 | RST38h | Doc: So, no, I am not buying the "more guns - less crime" thing |
| 16:33.59 | DocScrutinizer | more guns, more shitheads to shoot their wife and neighbour when drunk |
| 16:34.16 | DocScrutinizer | more Columbines |
| 16:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | more 12 year old fools shooting their mom thru the wall by accident |
| 16:36.42 | SpeedEvil | Pastry looking? |
| 16:36.50 | DocScrutinizer | USA has highest weapons/nose ratio in the whole civilized world, and afaik also the highest rate of crimes per resident and highest percentage of their population doing time in prison |
| 16:36.52 | SpeedEvil | Is that the same as a doughy complexion? |
| 16:37.39 | DocScrutinizer | so yes, sure this will get better when even more idiots own rifles over there |
| 16:37.49 | Sc0rpius | just look at Japan's crime rate, a country where all guns are forbidden, and most japanese have never ever seen a gun in RL |
| 16:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | maybe Darwin will help better when *everybody* gets a gun, so yeah this actually might pan out |
| 16:38.32 | *** join/#maemo ssspeq (~Per@81-226-118-105-no58.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:38.44 | RST38h | Doc: I suggest to start by removing all the warning labels first |
| 16:38.49 | andre__ | yay, finally a topic where everybody can have an opinion. welcome to #maemo! :) |
| 16:39.00 | RST38h | Doc: This way, they will only harm themselves, mostly |
| 16:39.39 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@212-183-127-183.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:39.43 | RST38h | andre__: Would you like to discuss Nokia's PR1.4 plans with us instead? =) |
| 16:40.02 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest handing a 9" bowie knife to every airline passenger |
| 16:40.37 | RST38h | Is it one ofthose Klingon knives? |
| 16:40.51 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: almost, yeah |
| 16:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 16:40.59 | GAN900 | RST38h, if you're a criminal and the likelihood of any random victim having a gun, |
| 16:41.00 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 16:41.24 | GAN900 | How likely are you to attempt to take somebody's purse or wallet? |
| 16:41.40 | DocScrutinizer | logic consequence, shoot before he will reach the locker where the gun is |
| 16:41.46 | lardman | pokes head in to see the usual USA guns argument :) |
| 16:41.48 | GAN900 | I don't get why people want to centralize force in the hands of the government (who runs things like gitmo) or criminals. |
| 16:42.05 | RST38h | GAN: I will still do it. |
| 16:42.15 | lardman | well people are buying guns in the USA and transporting them over here to use, which is bad |
| 16:42.18 | RST38h | GAN: Using an elementof surprise of course, from behind, etc. |
| 16:42.40 | RST38h | GAN: Especially if I really really want my drug fix |
| 16:42.52 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@202.91.18.194) |
| 16:42.58 | GAN900 | Guns are the great equalizer. Anybody can deploy the same amount of force regardless of age, gender, creed, color or sexual orientation. |
| 16:43.05 | RST38h | GAN: Furthermore, as I also have a gun this way, I may just resort to shooting the victim, by surprise |
| 16:43.19 | GAN900 | RST38h, because drug addicts are special operatives. |
| 16:43.25 | GAN900 | It's the utopia fallacy |
| 16:43.31 | RST38h | It is not, sorry |
| 16:43.40 | GAN900 | Because something has drawbacks it should be illegal |
| 16:43.40 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (~snoopy@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait) |
| 16:43.49 | GAN900 | Obviously things will be better when it is. |
| 16:43.58 | RST38h | Case in point: Russian Federation in the 90s, when getting a gun has been relatively easy and there weren't any controls |
| 16:44.14 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: obviously, look all the rest of civilized world |
| 16:44.19 | penguinbait | Howdy General! long time never see! |
| 16:44.21 | RST38h | People shot each other all over the place, stupidly, often to show that they are "cool" |
| 16:44.52 | GAN900 | penguinbait, hey-ho. |
| 16:45.07 | GAN900 | RST38h, hey, getting guns is really easy here, too. |
| 16:45.08 | Sc0rpius | who says PR1.4 will ever exist? |
| 16:45.24 | BCMM | nokia. also, everybody else. |
| 16:45.36 | GAN900 | RST38h, somehow there aren't gun battles in the street every day. |
| 16:45.39 | RST38h | An office worker got himself a gun "to stay safe when walking from work", then shot himself or a bystander, by mistake |
| 16:45.52 | GAN900 | RST38h, I'd argue that your cause and effect there is a little more complicated. |
| 16:45.55 | RST38h | GAN: Oh there weren't gun battles either |
| 16:46.11 | DocScrutinizer | it's just about the bets for the time of rollout. Some say 2014, some say 2180, some bet on 3233 |
| 16:46.15 | RST38h | GAN: Just deaths from stupid, careless gun abuse |
| 16:46.15 | andre__ | RST38h: PR1.4 plans? what PR1.4 plans? :-P |
| 16:46.30 | RST38h | andre__: See? Sit back and enjoy the show. |
| 16:46.43 | andre__ | hehe |
| 16:48.18 | DocScrutinizer | but it's definitively confirmed ther will be a PR1.4, in 3700 at the latest |
| 16:49.01 | Sc0rpius | year 3700? |
| 16:49.12 | DocScrutinizer | yup, what else |
| 16:49.18 | GAN900 | RST38h, dumb people will always be dumb. |
| 16:49.44 | GAN900 | RST38h, but I'd rather have force in the hands of people rather than government agents and criminals. |
| 16:49.47 | DocScrutinizer | dumb people with guns will be just that: dumb dangerous people |
| 16:49.56 | GAN900 | RST38h, whatever the drawbacks of that will be. |
| 16:50.08 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, or cars, chainsaw, and knives. |
| 16:50.17 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 16:50.19 | GAN900 | Most people aren't that dumb, however. |
| 16:50.36 | DocScrutinizer | that's why your gvmt outlawed laserpointers >1.5mW |
| 16:50.46 | DocScrutinizer | but pushes guns |
| 16:50.48 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:50.51 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 16:51.18 | GAN900 | Besides, gun are FUN. :P |
| 16:51.20 | DocScrutinizer | the point is, laserpointers are made in Taiwan, guns are by Smith&Wesson |
| 16:51.25 | GAN900 | s/gun/guns |
| 16:51.43 | RST38h | GAN: Don'tunderestimate the power of dumb people ;) |
| 16:51.56 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, er, and Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Israel, South Korean, etc, etc. |
| 16:52.24 | RST38h | GAN:Especially nowadays, when law-abiding US citizens are go bonkers all over the place due to starting societal collapse |
| 16:52.29 | RST38h | s/are/ |
| 16:52.47 | GAN900 | RST38h, s/collapse/values shift/ |
| 16:52.53 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (~berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 16:53.02 | RST38h | GAN: Drives 'em nuts all thesame. |
| 16:53.59 | GAN900 | RST38h, societal changes usually do. |
| 16:54.16 | DocScrutinizer | sure, guns are fun, killing is business, business is good |
| 16:54.25 | RST38h | GAN: Ironically, it does not matter to bystanders what has driven the mad gunman nuts. |
| 16:54.52 | GAN900 | RST38h, that misses the point. |
| 16:54.53 | RST38h | Whether it is personal, or political, or he the vending machine behind the corner told him to shoot people |
| 16:54.57 | *** join/#maemo deno (~menos@eduroam-wireless-pat3.wireless.bris.ac.uk) |
| 16:55.25 | RST38h | GAN: It does not: you look at things case-by-case. I look at statstics. |
| 16:55.42 | RST38h | When you look at statistics, things tend to... change. |
| 16:57.23 | GAN900 | RST38h, lunatic with a gun is an edge case. |
| 16:57.46 | GAN900 | RST38h, I'm around dozens of gun owners a day, nobody's shot anybody yet. |
| 16:59.03 | DocScrutinizer | I bet it has been absolute fun for the helicopter pilot to shoot down that Reuters reporter in Iraq with 2" cannon. He probably bragged with the number of kills after his flight. And I hope you feel good when he's back home, living next to your door, and goes buying some .45 gun 'for fun' |
| 16:59.14 | RST38h | Just takes one |
| 16:59.38 | RST38h | Doc: Hey, he can probably buy the 2" cannon. |
| 16:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 16:59.59 | RST38h | They won't sell him the avionics package, but what the hell? :) |
| 17:00.36 | GAN900 | People do stupid shit |
| 17:00.44 | GAN900 | Edge cases |
| 17:00.54 | RST38h | And that is exactly why you do not want to let them do too much stupid shit |
| 17:01.04 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, 99% edge cases. DAMN |
| 17:01.20 | RST38h | Especially in densely populated areas. If they do stupid shit on the countryside, that is generally ok |
| 17:01.41 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, that's an appeal to emotions which is particularly relevant. |
| 17:01.54 | GAN900 | RST38h, alternative is the problem |
| 17:03.07 | DocScrutinizer | here in my posse/quarter I have to walk really far to meet the next non-edge-case person |
| 17:03.14 | RST38h | GAN: There is plenty of alternatives |
| 17:03.23 | RST38h | GAN: You do not have to prohibit ALL guns |
| 17:03.35 | GAN900 | RST38h, where do you draw the line? |
| 17:03.47 | GAN900 | That's the slippery slope of all things like that |
| 17:03.48 | RST38h | GAN: Personally, I would draw it at automatic weaponry |
| 17:04.08 | RST38h | GAN: And *still* require a signed psychologic evaluation for anything below that |
| 17:04.45 | RST38h | With the psychologist signing the evaluation responsible if something goes wrong |
| 17:05.29 | RST38h | Would probably prohibit carrying guns in large cities, too, but it is already done anyway |
| 17:06.00 | GAN900 | It always tends towards more control |
| 17:06.10 | GAN900 | We don't have to ban ALL drugs. |
| 17:06.30 | RST38h | GAN: I think the battle against "control" should start elsewhere |
| 17:06.42 | RST38h | GAN: Forget the guns for now. Look at the schools. |
| 17:07.03 | RST38h | GAN: Where they can ban a child from school for bringing a *toy* gun or kissing a girl |
| 17:08.46 | SpeedEvil | http://swns.com/tourist-ordered-off-flight-because-of-toy-soldiers-three-inch-replica-gun-271200.html |
| 17:09.26 | GAN900 | RST38h, "this person disagrees with me politically. Crazy!" |
| 17:11.23 | *** join/#maemo svillar (~sergio@192.Red-88-13-117.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:11.40 | alterego | yawns |
| 17:12.33 | DocScrutinizer | WTF?! that idiot, couldn't he bring a *real* gun to school. Probably he'd get away with that. But a *toy*... tztzztzz |
| 17:15.00 | RST38h | GAN: That too, by the way |
| 17:15.22 | GeneralAntilles | Worse: "This person is Jewish. CRAZY!" |
| 17:15.27 | RST38h | GAN: But I guess labelling political opponents is somewhat normal around the world |
| 17:15.43 | RST38h | GAN: Same and antisemitism, unfortunately |
| 17:15.52 | RST38h | s/and/as |
| 17:16.02 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h: so don't give psychologists the power over people's ownership of force. :) |
| 17:16.22 | RST38h | GAN: Well, you can always choose a psychologist |
| 17:16.44 | RST38h | But, again, I do not think the gun ownership or non-ownership is the biggest issue at the moment |
| 17:17.48 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h: Well, it's the core guarantor of future freedom. |
| 17:17.55 | GeneralAntilles | Without that, you really have nothing else. |
| 17:18.21 | RST38h | GAN: Naah, that is what NRA may like you to think |
| 17:18.53 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h: certainly a lot easier to guarantee your freedom with a .308. |
| 17:19.27 | RST38h | GAN: But there are plenty scenarios where you still have you gun and every government/corporation official uses you for a rag |
| 17:19.44 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h: sure, but when it comes down to it you still have force as an option. |
| 17:19.50 | GeneralAntilles | When you no longer have that option at all, that's a problem. |
| 17:20.02 | *** join/#maemo VladNistor (~VladNisto@89.137.122.100) |
| 17:20.16 | RST38h | GAN: Hey, you are not going to revolt. Even if you did, the government has got much bigger guns, so your chances are nul |
| 17:20.24 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h: hardly |
| 17:20.36 | GeneralAntilles | Citizen soldiers aren't particularly inclined to start killing their friends and neighbors. |
| 17:20.49 | RST38h | So, I have no idea what you are going to do with the gun that you cannot more effectively do with, lets us say, a modified Caterpillar |
| 17:21.10 | RST38h | GAN: They are not? Hmmm... =) |
| 17:21.15 | *** join/#maemo Gyjf (~Gyjf3@h224n2-m-rg-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 17:22.02 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h: again, edge cases. |
| 17:22.15 | DocScrutinizer | force as an option? Sure, as every of the successful revolutions happening recently had success just because the demonstrants all had their own rifles to fight the police/army |
| 17:23.48 | deno | guys but the usb provided with the phone, is an usb 1.0 or 2.0? |
| 17:24.18 | GeneralAntilles | deno: 2 |
| 17:24.21 | chx | 2.0 (obviously?) |
| 17:24.25 | deno | uhm |
| 17:24.33 | DocScrutinizer | demonstrants shot in Iran, in Egypt, nobody shot in eastern Berlin, yeah, all just because people had rifles aka "force" |
| 17:24.37 | deno | I'm speaking about usb host mode |
| 17:25.27 | DocScrutinizer | deno: USB hostmode h-e-n has low speed (1.0), full speed (1.1) and high speed (2.0) |
| 17:25.28 | deno | is it possible that the driver doesn't use the maximum possible speed? |
| 17:25.53 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 17:25.58 | deno | uhm |
| 17:26.00 | DocScrutinizer | if the cable is shitty |
| 17:26.00 | kerio | and usb 3.0 has LUDICROUS SPEED |
| 17:26.22 | deno | I'm speaking about the maximum speed of the usb 2.0 |
| 17:26.28 | deno | the cable should be ok |
| 17:26.32 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: go suggest it to USB.cert |
| 17:26.58 | lcuk | kerio, thats only if you use a plaid cable |
| 17:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | deno: It might well be the case that the whole system in N900 can't sustain a speed of 480Mb/s, but that's not exactly a driver problem then |
| 17:29.26 | deno | DocScrutinizer, ok cool |
| 17:29.33 | deno | thank you for the info :) |
| 17:29.51 | DocScrutinizer | deno: e.g you neither can read nor write eMMC at that speed I guess |
| 17:30.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: /dev/zero should be fast enough |
| 17:30.16 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 17:30.43 | DocScrutinizer | you could do a dd if=zero of/null and see what it reports |
| 17:31.02 | deno | DocScrutinizer, but is it a problem of the hen project or just of the phone |
| 17:31.05 | deno | ? |
| 17:31.07 | DocScrutinizer | s./.=. |
| 17:31.22 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@212.144.117.125) |
| 17:31.22 | DocScrutinizer | deno: the phone |
| 17:31.44 | deno | DocScrutinizer, ok |
| 17:32.00 | deno | DocScrutinizer, thx |
| 17:32.03 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 17:32.14 | deno | DocScrutinizer, uhm |
| 17:32.29 | deno | (sorry for the questions but I'm trying to understand well) |
| 17:32.43 | deno | could it be solved overclocking the cpu? |
| 17:32.52 | deno | up to 1Ghz for example |
| 17:32.56 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~chigge@mnch-5d874d13.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | depends on where's the bottleneck |
| 17:33.42 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.149.178) |
| 17:34.04 | deno | DocScrutinizer, if is not the cpu, what could be? |
| 17:34.07 | deno | it* |
| 17:34.11 | villager | deno: why not say what you're trying to do? as he said, if you're trying to transfer a file, the flash memory just isn't that fast |
| 17:34.51 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:35.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: i get 275mb here :| |
| 17:35.15 | kerio | although with the default block size |
| 17:35.43 | kerio | yeah, it's better with 1m |
| 17:35.50 | kerio | 6.7GB/s |
| 17:36.32 | trumee | anybody on the Three network in the UK? |
| 17:36.47 | haltdef | used to be |
| 17:37.08 | trumee | They have started to charge money if you go above the 1GB limit. |
| 17:37.30 | trumee | it wasnt the case before afaik |
| 17:37.36 | haltdef | nice |
| 17:37.42 | haltdef | pats giffgaff |
| 17:38.09 | trumee | haltdef: giffgaff, no limits? |
| 17:38.18 | haltdef | 200MB/day fup |
| 17:38.43 | trumee | haltdef: that is nice |
| 17:38.54 | deno | villager, yes I'm transferring data at high speed.. is not possible the internal memory? |
| 17:38.55 | haltdef | looking for a decent data only plan now, getting a viliv n5 3g for alongside n900 |
| 17:41.13 | trumee | haltdef: £15 plan on giffgaff looks good. Unlimited internet=200MB/day ? and do they still piggy back on O2? |
| 17:41.25 | haltdef | yes and yes |
| 17:41.44 | villager | deno: if you can tune the access pattern for the internal memory, you can probably get the transfer faster... |
| 17:41.54 | haltdef | had no coverage problems, exeter area |
| 17:42.10 | jacekowski | haltdef: on three? |
| 17:42.27 | jacekowski | i'm on t-mobile and they suck where i live and where i work |
| 17:42.27 | trumee | haltdef: cambridge outskirts, hardly get an O2 signal |
| 17:42.28 | haltdef | giffgaff/o2 |
| 17:42.37 | jacekowski | o2 is decent-ish |
| 17:43.02 | deno | villager, cool |
| 17:43.52 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 17:45.17 | haltdef | £10/mo tablet plan on vodafone could be decent |
| 17:45.22 | haltdef | hear their network's the fastest |
| 17:45.24 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: O2loop internet-L = 5GB/month, 25Eur |
| 17:46.03 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: O2loop internet-M = 1GB/month, 10Eur |
| 17:46.47 | trumee | i need some free minutes as well. |
| 17:46.48 | lardman | I got a £5/month 500GB SIM from O2 |
| 17:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | that's PAYG |
| 17:47.03 | lardman | pay monthly |
| 17:47.14 | lardman | monthly contract (for the £5/month thing) |
| 17:47.16 | DocScrutinizer | err WUT? 500GB |
| 17:47.38 | lardman | is enough for casual browsing over the phone link |
| 17:47.45 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 17:48.02 | lardman | There's wifi round here you know ;) |
| 17:48.07 | deno | thx guyes |
| 17:48.10 | deno | guys for the info |
| 17:48.18 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: GIGA??? |
| 17:48.20 | lardman | or crap |
| 17:48.24 | lardman | realises his error |
| 17:48.42 | lardman | scales back by ~1e3 |
| 17:48.46 | kerio | :( |
| 17:49.20 | lcuk | lol @ 500GB monthly 'casual browsing' |
| 17:49.33 | trx | lol |
| 17:49.37 | lardman | well yeah, I guess if you casually browse HD movies :) |
| 17:49.58 | lardman | goes back to cursing the MS C compiler's craptastic error messages |
| 17:50.05 | kerio | well my computer can manage 6.5gb/s, so... |
| 17:50.19 | lardman | I mean really: "fde25code_mex.c(998) : error C2059: syntax error : 'for'" |
| 17:50.32 | kerio | lardman: use a while loop |
| 17:50.33 | lcuk | lardman, pastebin! |
| 17:50.44 | lardman | >3k lines |
| 17:50.47 | lcuk | kerio, loops are for wimps. |
| 17:50.55 | lcuk | the fragment around line 998 |
| 17:51.00 | lardman | yes, manually unroll before compiling :) |
| 17:51.13 | lcuk | kerio, recursion and hope the stack is big enough |
| 17:51.28 | chx | kerio: huh what? you have a computer that could stuff a 6.5 gigabit/s uplink?? |
| 17:51.40 | trx | o_O |
| 17:52.03 | lcuk | whats the wireless bandwidth for the new graphics cards? |
| 17:52.17 | lcuk | i notice it has so many antennas it looks like a punk |
| 17:52.23 | kerio | chx: well, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1m said 6.5GB/s |
| 17:53.10 | kerio | 6.7 actually |
| 17:53.23 | lcuk | kerio, that is not much use |
| 17:53.50 | kerio | I SAID MY COMPUTER CAN HANDLE 6.7GB/s SHUT UP |
| 17:54.36 | jacekowski | mine can handle over 9000 |
| 17:55.07 | kerio | jacekowski: prove it |
| 17:55.26 | *** join/#maemo fipu (~fipu@84.200.8.103) |
| 17:55.29 | jacekowski | 10485760000 bytes (10 GB) copied, 0.875556 s, 12.0 GB/s |
| 17:55.45 | MohammadAG | o_O |
| 17:56.04 | kerio | jacekowski: ;_; |
| 17:56.45 | jacekowski | but that's just plain memory copy |
| 17:56.52 | kerio | yeah |
| 17:56.59 | kerio | FUCKING DDR3, HOW DO THEY WORK |
| 17:57.13 | jacekowski | well you have dual channel in first place |
| 17:57.20 | jacekowski | that makes them go 2x as fast |
| 17:57.37 | chx | lcuk: 60 ghz |
| 17:57.42 | chx | lcuk: if you mean WiDi |
| 17:58.00 | jacekowski | and it's 64bits wide |
| 17:58.16 | jacekowski | and x2 for double data rate |
| 17:58.20 | lcuk | chx WHDI, 60hz 1080p over wireless |
| 17:58.20 | trx | doesnt matter, you can (only?) have 2Gbit network link |
| 17:58.25 | jacekowski | so you have 64x2x2xclock |
| 17:58.30 | lcuk | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/01/12/1429259/Wireless-GeForce-Graphics-Card-Announced |
| 17:58.49 | *** join/#maemo dotblank (~num@pool-173-53-34-87.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:58.53 | kerio | jacekowski: i'm on a laptop |
| 17:58.58 | kerio | i can't exactly change the mobo |
| 17:59.06 | jacekowski | well, you probably still have dual channel |
| 17:59.29 | jacekowski | so you have 1066MHz clock |
| 17:59.40 | jacekowski | so it's 1066MHzx64bitsx2x2 |
| 17:59.42 | jacekowski | so that's |
| 17:59.46 | trx | "I don't see anything about encryption. Are you supposed to broadcast your donkey porn to the neighbor in the open?" |
| 17:59.47 | trx | hahahaha |
| 17:59.59 | jacekowski | 27Gbits/s |
| 18:00.02 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 18:00.04 | jacekowski | that's wrong |
| 18:01.15 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 18:02.06 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 18:03.16 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@89.241.1.112) |
| 18:04.21 | *** join/#maemo chigga (~jp@cpe-72-190-50-218.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 18:07.12 | chx | lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WirelessHD |
| 18:07.26 | chx | lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Home_Digital_Interface this? |
| 18:07.39 | chx | lcuk: 5ghz |
| 18:09.11 | lcuk | according to that article, it will be the 3Gbit/s one |
| 18:09.17 | lcuk | thats a lot of data OTA |
| 18:09.24 | lcuk | no wonder theres so many antennas |
| 18:09.39 | lardman | that odd error was caused by an extra } finishing the fn early |
| 18:10.04 | lardman | shame the compiler doesn't bother to tell you that you've got program statements hanging around without a fn wrapping them |
| 18:10.07 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (~wtfisme@ross154.net) |
| 18:10.08 | lcuk | lardman, my head feels like that today |
| 18:10.39 | lardman | converting from MATLAB single line array ops to lots of for loops is somewhat error prone in my experience |
| 18:11.07 | lcuk | lardman, the error code "C2059" is probably marked as "Make lardman curse in a number of years because he missed the }" :P |
| 18:11.19 | lardman | lol |
| 18:11.52 | lcuk | what are you porting? |
| 18:11.58 | lardman | it was only when I pulled the for loop to pieces and noticed a warning about unused variables (which were in the for loop) that I twigged |
| 18:12.05 | lardman | heat simulation code |
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| 18:12.56 | lcuk | lardman, >> http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/32456566544269312 |
| 18:13.35 | lardman | :) |
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| 18:13.57 | lardman | I've been having some interesting conversations with Nokia Repair |
| 18:14.17 | lardman | I sent my original N900 in to see if they would repair it and what it might cost |
| 18:14.20 | lcuk | they do MATLAB->C support too? |
| 18:14.44 | lardman | and got a phone call from a rather officious chap who apparently thought I'd stolen the phone as it was property of Nokia :) |
| 18:14.55 | lcuk | eek! |
| 18:15.02 | lardman | no, and apparently they don't fix proto machines either |
| 18:15.04 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:15.30 | lardman | I told him that I'd not and told him who to contact in Nokia |
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| 18:15.39 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:15.41 | andre__ | haha |
| 18:15.58 | lardman | today I got another call saying that they were keeping the phone, to which I asked whether they would return it to the chap who'd given it to me as that was part of the deal |
| 18:16.02 | lardman | they were not quite sure |
| 18:16.13 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:16.16 | lardman | very odd |
| 18:16.30 | alterego | Is this your Amsterdam loaner? |
| 18:16.37 | lardman | I was told "it's going to escalate to the management", to which I answered fine |
| 18:16.49 | lcuk | lardman, :D |
| 18:16.52 | lardman | alterego: no, pre-Amsterdam, I didn't bother with an Amsterdam one |
| 18:17.00 | alterego | Ah, m'kay. |
| 18:17.18 | alterego | Well, at least you still have one ;) |
| 18:17.35 | lardman | yes, many thanks to Quim for sorting that out |
| 18:17.50 | lcuk | alterego, are your batteries charged up and stuff for tonight? :D |
| 18:17.57 | alterego | Yeah |
| 18:18.01 | alterego | Got power too :P |
| 18:18.07 | alterego | To be honest I'm in a bit of a bad mood |
| 18:18.10 | lardman | lcuk: when's this London get-together then? |
| 18:18.19 | lardman | or wherever |
| 18:18.27 | alterego | So I'm gonna have to put on a brave face and just get through it. |
| 18:19.28 | lcuk | alterego, walk in the park, I am only miffed at not being there myself tonight |
| 18:19.41 | lcuk | i just couldnt face a journey like that today |
| 18:20.09 | alterego | Yeah, well, I packed all my stuff up this morning and moved back in with my parents because I split up with my (ex)gf |
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| 18:20.37 | alterego | Think I'm going to be sour for a bit. |
| 18:21.11 | lardman | oh dear, sorry to hear that |
| 18:21.36 | alterego | It's okay, I'll get over it eventually. Just wish she'd stop ringing me for apparently no reason. |
| 18:21.40 | kerio | alterego: is "lol pwnt" too soon? |
| 18:21.47 | alterego | kerio: :P |
| 18:21.51 | kerio | also who decided to split up? |
| 18:22.03 | alterego | I ditched her because she cheated on me on Saturday. |
| 18:22.22 | alterego | 2 years of my life wasted on that cow |
| 18:22.24 | alterego | chuckles. |
| 18:22.41 | kerio | ok, so it's time to man up, hit the gym and quit facebook |
| 18:22.47 | Proteous | lol |
| 18:22.50 | alterego | Hah |
| 18:23.00 | alterego | f*cking facebook. |
| 18:23.13 | alterego | I have been thinking of deleting my account tbh |
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| 18:23.28 | alterego | Is that like a natural reaction after splitting up with someone :D |
| 18:23.39 | GAN900 | alterego, delete it. |
| 18:23.40 | Proteous | isn't it lawyer up? |
| 18:24.19 | SpeedEvil | alterego: no - deleting her account is. |
| 18:24.26 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:24.39 | SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/215/ |
| 18:24.40 | lardman | keep your account and start posting photos |
| 18:25.05 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:25.10 | alterego | I'm trying not to be harsh |
| 18:25.41 | GAN900 | alterego, something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it."? *ega* |
| 18:25.53 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:27.10 | GAN900 | kerio, hitting the gym sounds like a plan. |
| 18:27.23 | GAN900 | went running last night for the first time in weeks. |
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| 18:29.00 | SpeedEvil | alterego: Never know, maybe you'll hit the gym, and across the room, it's love at first sight with a glaswegian bodybuilder named Steve. |
| 18:29.19 | Proteous | no no, steve is mine! |
| 18:29.29 | alterego | Kinky |
| 18:29.38 | SpeedEvil | Who has his steroid use _COMPLETELY_UNDER_CONTROL_ |
| 18:29.55 | alterego | :) |
| 18:29.59 | lardman | only one reason to run, and that's to make it to the bar before the bell rings for last orders |
| 18:29.59 | Proteous | he totaly does, he hasn't hit me in weeks |
| 18:32.14 | deno | guys using the usb host mode am I able to get a 50 MB/s stream (nokia n900) ? |
| 18:32.26 | SpeedEvil | 50MB/s? |
| 18:32.30 | deno | SpeedEvil, yes |
| 18:32.31 | SpeedEvil | what do you mean? |
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| 18:32.43 | deno | SpeedEvil, a data transfer |
| 18:33.06 | deno | at 50 MB/s (it's only an hypothesis) |
| 18:33.13 | deno | a* |
| 18:33.30 | GAN900 | lardman, also: drugs. |
| 18:33.36 | GAN900 | lardman, endorphine release. :P |
| 18:33.48 | SpeedEvil | I think so. I know there are some performace issues, but that's ~10% of USB2s bandwidth,so it should be fine. |
| 18:33.59 | lardman | GAN900: only joking don't worry, though I don't much like running |
| 18:34.12 | GAN900 | lardman, swimming? |
| 18:34.47 | lardman | nah, I do Aikido and a fair bit of walking when I actually need to get somewhere, prefer to do something rather than travelling in circles |
| 18:34.52 | GAN900 | Ah |
| 18:34.56 | GAN900 | Hehe |
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| 18:35.11 | lardman | that's my biggest problem with running and swimming, unless you're going somewhere? |
| 18:35.14 | lardman | s/?/ |
| 18:35.31 | deno | SpeedEvil, "I know there are some performace issue" what do you mean? that it doesn't work well |
| 18:35.32 | deno | ? |
| 18:35.34 | lardman | so I happily swim in the sea to see stuff, but not so keen on swimming pools |
| 18:35.58 | SpeedEvil | deno: There are technical bandwidth limits on the USB host, as I understand it. What do you want to get working? |
| 18:36.23 | lardman | phew, compiled at last |
| 18:36.27 | lardman | heads for homw |
| 18:36.35 | GAN900 | lardman, it's about the journey, not the destination? :P |
| 18:36.37 | deno | SpeedEvil, yes I'm speaking about those technical bandwith limits.. how can I get more info? |
| 18:36.40 | lardman | cu chaps later assuming I do some Meego/Tab hacking |
| 18:36.54 | lcuk | \o lardman |
| 18:36.54 | lardman | GAN900: it's always about the destination with me! :) |
| 18:37.01 | GAN900 | Hehe |
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| 18:37.06 | GAN900 | Home? *g* |
| 18:37.13 | lardman | yeah, am at work |
| 18:37.28 | lardman | hmm, getting late now, gone 6.30 |
| 18:37.31 | SpeedEvil | deno: #maemo-hostmode-discussion - though I don't think anyoens there right now |
| 18:38.19 | deno | SpeedEvil, thx :) |
| 18:38.25 | deno | I'm going home now |
| 18:38.26 | deno | see you! |
| 18:38.30 | deno | thx for the help |
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| 19:09.19 | lardman | re |
| 19:09.44 | lardman | GAN900: bit slow this evening, only got the bit about "home" as I walked out of the office |
| 19:10.18 | GAN900 | lardman, the pitfalls of text-only communication |
| 19:10.29 | lardman | yep :) |
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| 19:45.31 | kwtm | Hi. Having two rotation problems. One is that it rotates when I don't want it to! E.g. X-terminal. I tried Shift-Ctrl-R to toggle to Don't-Rotate but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. Is there another way? Some GUI setting? |
| 19:45.43 | kwtm | Sorry; to clarify: talking about N900 on Maemo PR 1.2 |
| 19:46.44 | kerio | mine never rotates |
| 19:46.47 | kerio | it's stupid anyway |
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| 19:58.14 | andre__ | kwtm: why do you think that X-Terminal supports rotation? |
| 19:58.45 | kwtm | andre__: Because it rotates. Even though I don't want it to. |
| 19:59.43 | andre__ | ah, sorry, misread your line |
| 19:59.46 | andre__ | interesting |
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| 20:11.52 | kwtm | Okay... will now ask my other question: in rotated mode, the top line ("status line"? whatever) doesn't work. In particular, tapping on the battery/clock/phone signal strength bar fails to bring up the menu for things like "connect to the Internet" (which is pretty important). Anyone else experience this problem? |
| 20:12.47 | andre__ | kwtm, it is not implemented. |
| 20:13.14 | kwtm | andre__: That would explain things. Thanks for info. I take it it's also not implemented for Maemo PR 1.3 (ie. current version)? |
| 20:13.18 | andre__ | see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5445 |
| 20:13.20 | povbot | Bug 5445: Status menu not available in portrait mode |
| 20:13.21 | andre__ | no, it is not. |
| 20:14.38 | lardman | odd that it rotates at all really |
| 20:15.00 | lardman | or maybe I've never had the xterm open with the kb closed? |
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| 20:22.44 | b0unc3 | there is anything special I need to do to make autobuilder able to compile a qt home widget ? |
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| 20:49.55 | ieatlint | it's only midday wednesday here and i'm already frustrated enough with the week to want to hurt small mammals |
| 20:50.04 | ieatlint | should be full sized mammals by friday |
| 20:50.12 | Proteous | hides his hamster |
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| 20:51.20 | ieatlint | maybe should settle for a bird... chinatown sells them live, and people don't get all too upset about that |
| 20:52.19 | RST38h | why not start directly with humans? |
| 20:52.24 | RST38h | what did birdie do? |
| 20:53.31 | ieatlint | the birdie doesn't carry a prison sentence |
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| 20:54.28 | RST38h | cruelty to animals |
| 20:54.38 | RST38h | does carry some nastiness |
| 20:55.21 | ieatlint | yes, but disposing of dead animals isn't that suspicious, especially a chicken that is suitable for eating |
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| 20:57.59 | ieatlint | maybe at the end of the week i'll move up to humans that people don't care about.... prostitutes, homeless, and customer service reps |
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| 21:02.10 | GAN900 | People care about homeless. |
| 21:02.16 | GAN900 | Prostitutes, too. |
| 21:02.24 | GAN900 | Not sure about the CSRs. |
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| 21:12.15 | b-man | xnt14: ping! |
| 21:12.17 | DocScrutinizer | kwtm: none of the usual kbd shortcuts is supposed to work in xterm. See ctrl-C (copy, or sigint) |
| 21:12.46 | RST38h | is mcspthe same thing as cssu??? |
| 21:13.43 | RST38h | or is it just attila playing official? |
| 21:15.01 | MohammadAG | achipa playing official :P |
| 21:15.43 | RST38h | eh... |
| 21:15.53 | Sc0rpius | how come Ctrl-C would work in Xterm? |
| 21:15.58 | Sc0rpius | that's BREAK in any shell |
| 21:17.35 | Sc0rpius | if we're talking about vte here you have to mark and then go to menu -> Copy |
| 21:17.41 | Sc0rpius | and have to press the arrow button first to mark |
| 21:17.44 | Sc0rpius | (select) |
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| 21:21.41 | kwtm | DocScrutinizer: How does one turn off rotation for either the entire phone or for any particular application? |
| 21:22.59 | DocScrutinizer | no idea. probably using that magic shortcut in an app that doesn't have raw kbd input like xterm does. |
| 21:23.07 | kwtm | (without using keyboard...) |
| 21:23.19 | kwtm | No, tried the magic shortcut in other apps already. Hmm... |
| 21:23.23 | kwtm | Okay, thanks anyway. |
| 21:23.34 | DocScrutinizer | never heard of any other way than kbd shortcut |
| 21:24.08 | kwtm | Okay, unrelated question: is there a calendar app for the N900 that can sync with Google Calendar? |
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| 21:24.39 | DocScrutinizer | this really seems #1 in FAQ. Alas I have no answer |
| 21:25.41 | Sc0rpius | kwtm what exactly rotates in your phone? |
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| 21:25.57 | DocScrutinizer | I bet somebody else here does, though |
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| 21:26.12 | MrBawb | kwtm: there is a google calendar sync app, erminig |
| 21:26.26 | anidel | hi guys... any bash guru here? |
| 21:26.27 | Sc0rpius | DocScrutinizer: Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, Ctrl-X has different meanings in a Unix environment. So any terminal application can't use them for copy/paste/cut |
| 21:26.31 | Sc0rpius | have |
| 21:26.43 | Sc0rpius | I'm not a guru but I can try to help you in ash |
| 21:26.44 | DocScrutinizer | I'm well aware of that |
| 21:26.45 | Sc0rpius | bash |
| 21:26.59 | MohammadAG | CTRL+SHIFT+C ftw |
| 21:27.12 | anidel | well it's a tricky question, not related to Maemo... it's the way bash executes commands like `/bin/true` |
| 21:27.14 | anidel | i.e. subshells |
| 21:27.35 | kwtm | Sc0rpius: Currently, nothing --although I'm not sure exactly what I did to turn it off. When it does rotate, then everything rotates, quite irritatingly. So: email, phone, Xterm (right in the middle of an ebook...) etc. Ctrl-Shift-R seems to have no effect. Tried multiple combinations with keyboard closed/open. |
| 21:27.44 | MrBawb | anidel: what aspect of executing commands are you wanting more info on? |
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| 21:27.51 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 21:27.57 | anidel | say I want to do this loop: |
| 21:28.04 | kwtm | The whole screen spends 50% of its time doing the flash "rotate screen" animation. So eventually I just get sick and tired and just open the keyboard to force no rotate. |
| 21:28.17 | kwtm | After a while, it stops doing that but not sure what the trigger is. |
| 21:28.23 | anidel | while `/bin/true` ; do ( cd $DIR; $RUN_COMMAND) & done; |
| 21:28.24 | Sc0rpius | kwtm are you sure you didn't install an application for that? 'cos native Maemo desktop doesn't rotate. Only phone & Photos applications |
| 21:28.27 | kwtm | Wasn't there some GUI setting I could use for "do rotate". |
| 21:28.37 | anidel | and before that I want to trap SIGCHLD: |
| 21:28.44 | anidel | trap bail_out 17 |
| 21:29.00 | DocScrutinizer | avoid signal numbers |
| 21:29.02 | anidel | this WORKS fine in bash.. if the command in ( ) SIGCHLDs it's trapped |
| 21:29.09 | kwtm | Sc0rpius: Hmm... I didn't do it deliberately. Maybe it's not Xterm but the PDF reader? I can't be sure now but I don't want to activate it again to test because it's such a hassle to turn off. |
| 21:29.11 | anidel | thjat's not the point, yeah I know that... |
| 21:29.13 | anidel | the issue is |
| 21:29.19 | anidel | the script has |
| 21:29.28 | anidel | #!/bin/sh at the beginning |
| 21:29.32 | Sc0rpius | kwtm: every application has a setting for rotation, it's not a global thing, unless you install an app for that |
| 21:29.37 | Sc0rpius | ok |
| 21:29.39 | anidel | in ubuntu that's dash... |
| 21:29.42 | kwtm | Okay, if there's no easy way, I'll just deal with it, and open the keyboard when I do. |
| 21:29.55 | Sc0rpius | you can change it to #!/bin/bash or whatever your bash is installed, right? |
| 21:29.55 | anidel | now the SIGCHLD is sent when /bin/true exits! |
| 21:29.58 | anidel | and bails out! |
| 21:30.10 | anidel | yeah but I can't go that path here.. |
| 21:30.17 | kwtm | Sc0rpius: I was aware that each app has a rotation setting, but I wasn't sure why it wasn't responding. Also because my N900 takes about 3-6 seconds to respond (that's another story altogether --don't even get me started). |
| 21:30.23 | Sc0rpius | you don't have bash installed nor you can install it? |
| 21:30.24 | anidel | so I am not sure now |
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| 21:30.31 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, sure. waiting for SIGCHLD is a weird idea anyway |
| 21:30.39 | anidel | if bash and dash behave differently when seeing the `...` |
| 21:30.45 | anidel | or sorry br |
| 21:30.46 | anidel | brb |
| 21:31.14 | Sc0rpius | all Ubuntus have /bin/bash... |
| 21:31.16 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 21:31.18 | kwtm | Thanks, though. |
| 21:31.20 | Sc0rpius | you don't have to deal with dash |
| 21:31.35 | kwtm | Okay, off to job interview. Bye all! |
| 21:31.41 | Sc0rpius | good louck with that kwtm |
| 21:31.43 | DocScrutinizer | SIGCHLD is sent whenever *any* child process terminates |
| 21:31.43 | Sc0rpius | luck |
| 21:31.44 | merlin_1991 | good luck |
| 21:31.46 | kwtm | thx |
| 21:31.54 | DocScrutinizer | it's not restricted to subshells |
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| 21:32.42 | Sc0rpius | modest is changing PIDs it's weird, maybe it's crashing and restarting |
| 21:32.45 | Sc0rpius | and that's not good. |
| 21:33.32 | *** join/#maemo nidO (~nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 21:35.22 | DocScrutinizer | anidel: a shell is starting child processes all the time. If you want to check/trap a particular process quitting, you need other methods than a trap on SIGCHLD |
| 21:35.48 | Sc0rpius | definitely. |
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| 21:36.48 | DocScrutinizer | anidel: e.g ``(start_child; kill -SIGUSR1 `ppid`)& |
| 21:37.16 | javispedro | is everyone on tmo fscking crazy? =) |
| 21:37.31 | Proteous | yes? |
| 21:37.33 | wmarone-n900 | yes! |
| 21:37.34 | RST38h | yes, javispedro |
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| 21:37.39 | *** join/#maemo moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) |
| 21:37.40 | Sc0rpius | what's tmo anyway |
| 21:37.49 | DocScrutinizer | has it been different any time ? |
| 21:37.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~tmo |
| 21:37.56 | infobot | [tmo] http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo |
| 21:37.56 | Proteous | I wear gloves and a mask when I surf there |
| 21:38.30 | ZogG | let's make community-ovi, let's take Nokia b* down |
| 21:38.32 | ZogG | =) |
| 21:38.35 | RST38h | Proteous: Oh,so that gloved, masked lemming were you! |
| 21:38.51 | RST38h | ZogG: Not that difficult |
| 21:38.55 | Sc0rpius | oh ok |
| 21:39.21 | javispedro | the latest flash craze is very entertaining. and to top it off yet another thread about medfield n9. |
| 21:39.37 | Proteous | SSShhh, I don't want ieatlint to kill me... |
| 21:39.37 | RST38h | ZogG: Two weeks of PHP and it is done |
| 21:40.03 | RST38h | javispedro: who cares... |
| 21:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: LALALALALALALA I don't hear you (fingers in ears) |
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| 21:41.03 | RST38h | Ok, the CSSU thread has been successfully overrun by screaming lemmings |
| 21:41.10 | Sc0rpius | flash craze? |
| 21:41.12 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, i herd the rumors that you don't surf or read internets, you just download them |
| 21:41.12 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 21:41.27 | javispedro | Sc0rpius: zombie "flash 10.1" making a come back. |
| 21:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | yuck |
| 21:42.14 | DocScrutinizer | starts a tmo thread "I got flash12, suckers :-P" |
| 21:42.27 | Sc0rpius | flash updates in microb? very unlikely. |
| 21:42.33 | RST38h | has flash10 installed btw |
| 21:42.36 | ZogG | javispedro, too old, flashover9000 is way cooler |
| 21:43.04 | ZogG | RST38h biatch =) |
| 21:43.18 | ZogG | RST38h, it's oe of the things i don't need but i do want =) |
| 21:43.20 | javispedro | RST38h: and you use it? :) |
| 21:43.24 | RST38h | That evaluation version offered at TI site is pretty much the same kind of build as our version 9, just a bit newer |
| 21:43.40 | RST38h | javispedro: not really, I rarely used it to begin with |
| 21:43.47 | javispedro | knew |
| 21:43.54 | RST38h | javispedro:but it plays youtube crap and some games too |
| 21:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: my condolences |
| 21:44.00 | javispedro | oh. |
| 21:44.09 | javispedro | the day they move youtube to f10 I'm fscked I guess. |
| 21:44.22 | ZogG | javispedro, but i liked that we only mobile that had flash to troll applefags =) |
| 21:44.25 | Sc0rpius | we all will be fucked |
| 21:44.59 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer so are the rumors true? |
| 21:45.15 | Sc0rpius | only mobile? |
| 21:45.30 | DocScrutinizer | ZogG: rumour is always true, i heard |
| 21:45.36 | Sc0rpius | my gf has an old Nokia E51 and that old piece of crap can browse youtube no problems |
| 21:45.44 | Sc0rpius | I think all Nokias have flash |
| 21:45.52 | RST38h | cool, man |
| 21:46.05 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, as well as iheard Egypt had no internets as you stopped seeding it on your internet-torrents tracker |
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| 21:46.30 | *** join/#maemo netepal (~saima@5ac6eef5.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:46.48 | DocScrutinizer | nah, they just missed my announcement to switch over to p2p wlan network |
| 21:46.59 | ZogG | if anyone wants good internet you need to prey to DocScrutinizer and sacrifice 2 babies at the begining of every month for him |
| 21:47.01 | DocScrutinizer | then were surprised when the old crap gone down |
| 21:47.06 | javispedro | ponders teasing the lemmings with screenshots of alternative OSes on N900, only to never say how to run them. |
| 21:47.43 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, actually it was good that we could use their ipv4 as we were out of ours :) |
| 21:48.03 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 21:48.04 | ZogG | javispedro what do you mean? |
| 21:48.10 | RST38h | javispedro: they do not care, but fabricate some iphone game screenshots, and they will be sold |
| 21:48.20 | Sc0rpius | every alternative OS on N900 sucks |
| 21:48.41 | Sc0rpius | the only thing they do work is for show them off to friends |
| 21:49.48 | DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ should suffice for that |
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| 21:51.56 | javispedro | omg vmware on extras-devel |
| 21:51.58 | Sc0rpius | that "looks" nice but they are so friggin' slow is unbearable |
| 21:52.20 | SpeedEvil | vmware- for wince? |
| 21:52.28 | javispedro | ;) |
| 21:52.57 | RST38h | hm |
| 21:52.59 | SpeedEvil | Do I vaguely remember something about vmware on n810? |
| 21:53.07 | javispedro | see video above |
| 21:53.20 | DocScrutinizer | n800 |
| 21:53.25 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:53.44 | DocScrutinizer | running winCE and AndroiD |
| 21:54.05 | DocScrutinizer | good enough for show off |
| 21:54.17 | lardman | ~curse HAM |
| 21:54.17 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, HAM ! |
| 21:54.17 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 21:54.38 | andre__ | ...maybe better as a Windows XP Software Center or so |
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| 21:56.25 | achipa | RST38h: MohammadAG: playing official what ? |
| 21:56.25 | anidel | DocScrutinizer, no I need SIGCHLD to catch interrupts from the keyboard, do something then quit |
| 21:56.46 | anidel | DocScrutinizer, I really don't get why the behavior is different from BASH and DASH |
| 21:56.49 | DocScrutinizer | SIGCHLD for kbd? o.O |
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| 21:57.09 | DocScrutinizer | what's dash? |
| 21:57.22 | anidel | a shell Ubuntu is using instead of sh |
| 21:57.26 | DocScrutinizer | do you mean messybox? |
| 21:57.29 | javispedro | nope |
| 21:57.48 | javispedro | slightly better than messybox, comes from some debian code |
| 21:57.57 | DocScrutinizer | anidel: you used signal number instead symbolic name? |
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| 21:58.12 | anidel | yes .. not sure it should matter.. let me check |
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| 21:58.56 | DocScrutinizer | never use signal numbers. They differ from arch to arch |
| 21:59.00 | anidel | yeah if I use CHLD is the same.. with dash it bails out when `/bin/true` quits, on bash it doesn't |
| 21:59.10 | anidel | I know, this is the same arch, same machine... |
| 21:59.16 | anidel | so it doesn't matter.. |
| 21:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 21:59.35 | anidel | in fact, I just used CHLD and same behavior.. it's dash and bash that behave differently... |
| 21:59.37 | DocScrutinizer | maybe dash is some messybox in disguise? |
| 21:59.46 | anidel | no idea. never heard of it until today :) |
| 21:59.48 | Sc0rpius | just don't use dash :) |
| 21:59.58 | anidel | I can't... |
| 22:00.02 | javispedro | might be.... ie it might intercept call to true and run a builtin? |
| 22:00.05 | anidel | unless our sysadmins agree :) |
| 22:00.24 | DocScrutinizer | or wait, probably bash is using internal true, even when you ask for /bin/true |
| 22:00.30 | anidel | javispedro, probably.. how ` is called? ' is a quote, " is a double-quote and ` ? |
| 22:00.38 | javispedro | backtick |
| 22:00.42 | anidel | DocScrutinizer, thought about that as well.. |
| 22:00.54 | anidel | should be weird.. /bin/true is one thing.. .true is another |
| 22:01.10 | javispedro | yeah, it would be news if it was builtin-ing a call to /bin/true.. |
| 22:01.12 | anidel | if I specify a path, it's because I want to be sure you run whatever is on the FS |
| 22:01.12 | DocScrutinizer | whatever, I'm sure your condept has worse problems than that |
| 22:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | never heard you need to trap SIGCHLD to get kbd input |
| 22:01.34 | javispedro | goes watch some TV for a change |
| 22:01.46 | Sc0rpius | I still don't get it why can't you choose your own shell, even if you're not root |
| 22:01.55 | anidel | DocScrutinizer, well it was just to get all "weird" signals, 1, 3, 15, 16, 17 |
| 22:01.59 | Sc0rpius | if you can edit the script, you can use whatever you want |
| 22:02.33 | anidel | Sc0rpius, I can, but this is work related.. some constraints on the way we do things in here... we can , but we should branch off the script we're using |
| 22:02.55 | anidel | and in our team we don't want that.. so.. was trying to understand what's the real issue here |
| 22:03.18 | anidel | that's why I asked for a bash guru :) |
| 22:03.46 | DocScrutinizer | whatever, SIGCHLD gets sent from child to parent process when child quits. child may be any arbitrary process started by parent |
| 22:04.19 | anidel | yep, that's why I think BASH is doing something particular with `/bin/true` |
| 22:04.21 | *** join/#maemo rblank (~rblank@83.219.114.94) |
| 22:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | that's why *I* think SIGCHLD is not the correct signal for any usecase faintly resembling yours |
| 22:05.04 | Sc0rpius | can I install a previous version of any software using apt-get ? |
| 22:05.09 | Sc0rpius | and not the latest one? |
| 22:05.26 | Venemo | Sc0rpius: if the previous one is still present in the repo then yes |
| 22:05.37 | anidel | DocScrutinizer, we are also wondering that.. and we'll think about it... let's assume we need it. |
| 22:05.39 | Venemo | Sc0rpius: 'apt-get install thepackage=version' |
| 22:05.55 | anidel | it's now a curiosity.. |
| 22:05.56 | Sc0rpius | and how can I browse versions available in the repo using apt-cache? |
| 22:06.04 | Venemo | Sc0rpius: that I don't know. |
| 22:06.14 | Venemo | Sc0rpius: you can use the maemo.org package interface though |
| 22:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | when you need it, you must be happy with the way it works. Where's the problem then? |
| 22:06.42 | anidel | it works differently in bash and dash .. I wanted to understand why |
| 22:06.58 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.149.178) |
| 22:07.19 | DocScrutinizer | well, read the source of bash and dash and you'll know for sure |
| 22:07.24 | anidel | :D |
| 22:07.26 | anidel | thanks :p |
| 22:07.54 | Sc0rpius | apt-cache showpkg <package> |
| 22:07.58 | DocScrutinizer | bash might implement monitoring of childs by its own |
| 22:08.06 | DocScrutinizer | dash might not |
| 22:08.18 | anidel | it might... |
| 22:08.25 | Sc0rpius | thank you Venemo it worked |
| 22:08.40 | DocScrutinizer | SIGCHLD isn't usually meant to be used in trap |
| 22:09.22 | anidel | why not? if I want to monitor my childs why shouldn't I use it in trap? |
| 22:09.51 | DocScrutinizer | it's simply not explicitly masked out as there's nothing *bad* happening if you use a trap on SIGCHLD |
| 22:10.34 | DocScrutinizer | because there are better ways to monitor subshells. And monitoring child processes is a meaningless effort |
| 22:11.07 | anidel | you can't possibly now all the cases one need to do something |
| 22:11.22 | anidel | I might agree on this very specific case |
| 22:11.33 | anidel | but I wouldn't rule it out a priori for all the cases out there |
| 22:11.35 | DocScrutinizer | anidel: bash: help wait |
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| 22:12.33 | DocScrutinizer | it's completely academic |
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| 22:12.37 | anidel | indeed |
| 22:12.51 | DocScrutinizer | no purpose to learn about it, in RL |
| 22:13.07 | anidel | no I know what you mean |
| 22:13.55 | anidel | but in this case I am , as said, under constraints.. I didn't write the script, but I need to use it as is.. on the client machine sh -> bash and there's fine... on our test boxes sh -> dash and it doesn't even enter the loop. |
| 22:14.10 | anidel | Understanding what exactly is different, helps and it's also academic |
| 22:14.23 | anidel | no matter what one thinks about how things are done |
| 22:15.12 | DocScrutinizer | meh, find a way to make nonsense behave nonsensical on all shells then. Not my problem |
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| 22:15.29 | Sc0rpius | I'd still change the first line of the script and that's it |
| 22:15.50 | anidel | oh come on...this was just a question of why the two shells behave differently, if you don't care then yeah it's not your problem... |
| 22:16.02 | Sc0rpius | n need to be rude but come on |
| 22:16.04 | Sc0rpius | now that's a STUPID question |
| 22:16.10 | Sc0rpius | dash is a TOTAL different shell |
| 22:16.14 | Sc0rpius | ,like csh, ash, ksh |
| 22:16.17 | Sc0rpius | TOTALLY differents |
| 22:16.24 | Sc0rpius | you should NEVER expect to behave them identically |
| 22:16.31 | Sc0rpius | if you program for bash YOU HAVE TO USE BASH |
| 22:16.37 | corecode | hi |
| 22:16.38 | Sc0rpius | then go out and learn dash and program for that |
| 22:17.03 | corecode | anybody know how i can tell fmms to scale the images it displays? |
| 22:17.12 | anidel | Things are goind wrong here :) |
| 22:17.16 | anidel | going.. |
| 22:17.25 | anidel | if you write a script that could work on different shells |
| 22:17.31 | anidel | wouldn't you learn these differences? |
| 22:17.44 | anidel | I would.. and that's what I am trying to do here. |
| 22:17.49 | DocScrutinizer | this usecase is so bizzare not even bash manual writers bothered to explain it |
| 22:17.57 | DocScrutinizer | so why should you? |
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| 22:18.17 | anidel | I'm not offending.. you guys are pusshing in different directions and don't get that I just asked what could be different in invoking `/bin/true` in dash and bash. |
| 22:18.24 | corecode | anidel: what are you trying to do? |
| 22:18.27 | Sc0rpius | it's hard to write a script that works on different shells, that's why they invented, decades ago, the #! command in the first line. |
| 22:18.37 | DocScrutinizer | it's a completely useless command sequence, and when it works different in another shell, so be it |
| 22:19.03 | anidel | I KNOW it's HARD.. that's why I went here , thought it would be something nice that would help understand a behaviour |
| 22:19.34 | DocScrutinizer | bash uses builtins frequently |
| 22:19.45 | corecode | so what is this about? |
| 22:19.56 | anidel | corecode, nothing fancy.. I have a trap that traps SIGCHLD and a while loop on `/bin/true`. The trap callback is called in dash when true exits, while in bash it is not. Trying to understand why |
| 22:19.56 | DocScrutinizer | also bash has quite sophisticated subprocess management |
| 22:20.13 | DocScrutinizer | see `help coproc` |
| 22:20.19 | anidel | I know perfectly, when bash was born I was there. |
| 22:20.23 | DocScrutinizer | dash prolly hasn't |
| 22:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | and doesn't |
| 22:20.32 | DocScrutinizer | and that's why |
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| 22:21.16 | corecode | anidel: are you calling "true" or "/bin/true" or "command true"? |
| 22:21.22 | anidel | /bin/true |
| 22:21.32 | corecode | and bash replaces it with a builtin? |
| 22:21.36 | Sc0rpius | well if you read the mans |
| 22:21.45 | Sc0rpius | you can see that dash and bash implement command substitution differently |
| 22:21.49 | Sc0rpius | that is using `command` |
| 22:22.04 | Sc0rpius | in bash, it escapes to the current shell, execute the command |
| 22:22.19 | Sc0rpius | in dash (from the man): The shell expands the command substitution by executing command in a subshell environment |
| 22:22.27 | Sc0rpius | so when the subshell exits, you're fucked |
| 22:22.30 | Sc0rpius | in bash, it's the same shell all the time |
| 22:22.38 | corecode | fwiw, my linux bash will run the binary |
| 22:22.42 | DocScrutinizer | what I said |
| 22:23.02 | Sc0rpius | because SIGCHLD... what DocScrutinizer said, it's for ANY child process |
| 22:23.05 | Sc0rpius | not the one you want |
| 22:23.20 | anidel | Sc0rpius, THAT is what I was looking into the MAN ... which section is that? |
| 22:23.36 | anidel | I know about CHLD |
| 22:23.38 | Sc0rpius | "Command substitution" look it up in both mans (bash & dash) |
| 22:23.55 | Sc0rpius | in bash equals to escape to current shell |
| 22:24.00 | Sc0rpius | in dash equals to fork to a subshell |
| 22:24.08 | corecode | anidel: my bash will call the trap |
| 22:24.27 | corecode | well, does |
| 22:24.39 | corecode | only if i use /bin/true tho |
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| 22:25.00 | anidel | http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Command-Substitution ? |
| 22:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | alias /bin/true true |
| 22:25.29 | DocScrutinizer | MEH |
| 22:26.26 | Sc0rpius | now compare that to dash |
| 22:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | who would EVER EVER EVER care about when a shell receives a SIGCHLD? o.O |
| 22:26.58 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: i do |
| 22:27.03 | anidel | wait.. here it just says that it executes COMMAND and substitutes it.. doesn't say how it executes it |
| 22:27.05 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: i have scripts that use it |
| 22:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | now THAT script sure has to be interesting |
| 22:27.31 | corecode | i don't know what you are arguing about |
| 22:27.36 | javispedro | and you have read about the wait statement? ;) |
| 22:27.49 | corecode | yes, i use that too |
| 22:27.51 | corecode | and job control |
| 22:28.28 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: just because you can't think of a use doesn't mean that there are infinite very reasonable uses of that |
| 22:28.58 | Sc0rpius | you know what I would do? |
| 22:29.06 | Sc0rpius | instead of $COMMAND & |
| 22:29.10 | Sc0rpius | I would write a wrapper |
| 22:29.27 | Sc0rpius | a .sh that runs $COMMAND (without the &) and then send a trap when it's finished |
| 22:29.35 | DocScrutinizer | I tend to use my wetware cycles better than trying to figure differneces between shells for usecases that *might* be imaginable but I never ever will run into them |
| 22:30.03 | corecode | anidel: so why doesn't it trap? |
| 22:30.19 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: yea, you rather rant about it on irc |
| 22:30.24 | kerio | buuuuuuurn |
| 22:30.25 | anidel | so let say: ASSUMING you are FOR WHATEVER reason FORCED (or die) to use trap 17 (or trap CHLD)...and you run into this issue, WOULD you go and look at the difference between dash and bash? I would and went here to ask as I couldn't find it. After complaining about SOMETHING else, you guys finally gave me the answer "Command Subistitution". Thanks :) |
| 22:30.36 | DocScrutinizer | I suggested that before, Sc0rpius |
| 22:30.51 | corecode | anidel: i would try it on both to make sure it works |
| 22:30.51 | DocScrutinizer | SIGUSR1 |
| 22:31.09 | corecode | but i'm sure it will |
| 22:31.13 | corecode | because this is basics |
| 22:31.14 | anidel | corecode, I am not sure yet.. even if bash doesn't create a subshell it should still have a child to run /bin/true I guess it won't trap SIGCHLD |
| 22:31.39 | corecode | anidel: i keep telling you, my bash traps SIGCHLD when i run /bin/true |
| 22:31.56 | Sc0rpius | well I haven't tried that |
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| 22:32.21 | corecode | you can also just force a child |
| 22:32.24 | corecode | by using () |
| 22:32.33 | corecode | (true) will send a sigchld as well |
| 22:32.35 | DocScrutinizer | let's say I have an icepick and a bag of feathers, and I MUST smoke a pipe using those... what would I do.................. |
| 22:32.41 | anidel | corecode, u tested like this: trap 17 then while `/bin/true` ; do sleep 1000; done |
| 22:32.47 | anidel | sorry |
| 22:32.54 | corecode | anidel: no, i test it like this: |
| 22:33.05 | anidel | function bail_out () { echo bailed; exit} then trap bail_out 17 |
| 22:33.27 | DocScrutinizer | bye folks, that's getting too weird here |
| 22:33.30 | Sc0rpius | heh |
| 22:33.49 | anidel | DocScrutinizer, yes because you guys insisted in forcing your own opinions |
| 22:34.18 | corecode | trap 'echo o hi' SIGCHLD |
| 22:34.19 | anidel | and don't listen.. I said I AM FORCED to do that. |
| 22:34.20 | DocScrutinizer | no, because you insist in using a hammer to cook a chicken |
| 22:34.24 | corecode | /bin/true |
| 22:34.30 | anidel | I AM FORCED |
| 22:34.32 | corecode | prints "o hi" |
| 22:34.36 | Sc0rpius | first time I heard somebody is forced to use a specific shell |
| 22:34.39 | Proteous | Mmm, hammer cooked chicken |
| 22:34.40 | Sc0rpius | at work |
| 22:34.46 | anidel | ah.. come on now :) |
| 22:34.48 | DocScrutinizer | BS, I'll force you to walk on water |
| 22:34.51 | anidel | I explained before |
| 22:34.55 | corecode | anidel: i don't think these folks here are useful |
| 22:35.03 | anidel | amazing :) |
| 22:35.06 | corecode | anidel: tell me which other # you're in and i can chat with you there |
| 22:35.08 | DocScrutinizer | go to your boss and ask how to do it |
| 22:35.09 | anidel | it's so simple... |
| 22:35.33 | corecode | anidel: or do you prefer convincing the internet that they are wrong? |
| 22:35.41 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@j71044.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 22:35.44 | DocScrutinizer | "boss, I *MUST* walk on water, I'm FORCED to do it. Why doesn't it work when it's above 0°C?" |
| 22:35.48 | anidel | this is a old script that we are using EVERYWHERE and don't want to change unless we need to.. is it so difficult to undestand that? :) |
| 22:35.58 | corecode | i see |
| 22:35.59 | anidel | ok.. anyway time to go home.. corecode thanks for your support |
| 22:36.10 | corecode | it works here, that's all i can say |
| 22:36.32 | Proteous | corecode gives it the "works on my machine" seal of approval |
| 22:36.34 | anidel | wait I'll paste you in pastebin corecode |
| 22:36.48 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: "you don't have enough SYNERGY!!" <runs away> |
| 22:37.29 | anidel | corecode, http://pastebin.com/j1E4ieX5 |
| 22:37.30 | anidel | works? |
| 22:37.36 | Proteous | yeah, if only you moved this to the cloud you'd be fine |
| 22:37.54 | corecode | that's /bin/sh |
| 22:37.56 | corecode | not bash |
| 22:38.16 | corecode | why are you using backticks? |
| 22:38.16 | anidel | DocScrutinizer, Sc0rpius I understand your point but it's like saying "don't use Linux then and use Windows" |
| 22:38.33 | anidel | if you don't get a reason behind something, just accept it... that was it |
| 22:38.43 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'm just getting angry when somebody comes with a borked to the bones concept and wants help to put it to work, rather than fix the BS in foundation |
| 22:38.45 | anidel | corecode, I'm not.. that's the script :) |
| 22:38.53 | anidel | anyway.. running ttyl |
| 22:39.39 | Sc0rpius | well I always say to everybody to use Windows. |
| 22:39.44 | Sc0rpius | less headaches |
| 22:39.56 | corecode | anidel: you need set -m |
| 22:40.06 | corecode | anidel: you need to switch on job control to get the traps |
| 22:40.29 | DocScrutinizer | anidel: if you'd ask me how to make foobar-shooter-win7 work, then yes, you'd get exactly that answer |
| 22:41.01 | DocScrutinizer | "use windows for a wndows game" |
| 22:41.02 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: nothing is broken. works within the specifications |
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| 22:41.17 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: shell can trap. shell can trap! shell can trap. |
| 22:41.21 | DocScrutinizer | I see, that's why he came here |
| 22:41.32 | Sc0rpius | IT'S A TRAP |
| 22:41.45 | DocScrutinizer | it's a troll |
| 22:41.49 | corecode | well, i came here to wonder how i can zoom in on a mms image |
| 22:42.01 | corecode | and also how to get the animation shown |
| 22:42.06 | javispedro | corecode: it was clearly a trap then |
| 22:42.14 | Sc0rpius | save it and preview it with another software? |
| 22:42.37 | corecode | Sc0rpius: you have an idea which software to use? |
| 22:42.45 | Sc0rpius | well, no |
| 22:43.30 | corecode | oh wow. gtk can't show animated gifs by default |
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| 22:45.06 | DocScrutinizer | in my old flat I found stomping on the floor opened the door of the living room. I'm aware that's not supposed to work anywhere, but now we moved to a new flat and my boss err wife got used to it. So how would I make the door in new flat behave? |
| 22:46.10 | corecode | plonk |
| 22:46.29 | Venemo | alterego: what was the command to install something on MADDE sysroot? |
| 22:48.25 | corecode | is it okay to set a password for user or will that break the system? |
| 22:49.29 | DocScrutinizer | btw while true; do $COMMAD&; done # o.O isn't that the genuine forkbomb? WTF?? |
| 22:49.47 | corecode | that is, yes |
| 22:49.55 | corecode | not bomb |
| 22:49.59 | corecode | but close |
| 22:50.14 | DocScrutinizer | depends on content of $COMMAD :-P |
| 22:50.58 | DocScrutinizer | COMMAD=$0; #forkbomd armed |
| 22:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | and no trap on SIGCHLD will get that moster back into the bottle |
| 22:55.34 | DocScrutinizer | the boss really must hate anidel |
| 22:57.56 | DocScrutinizer | corecode: I set a password for root |
| 22:58.08 | DocScrutinizer | corecode: dunno about user |
| 22:59.02 | DocScrutinizer | aah no, actually I have set the password for user as well, but it's mostly useless (except for ssh) |
| 22:59.19 | DocScrutinizer | so yes, you can set user password |
| 22:59.25 | corecode | ok |
| 22:59.29 | corecode | yes, i ment to ssh in |
| 22:59.34 | corecode | to hack on fmms |
| 22:59.45 | DocScrutinizer | and you can fix sudoers.conf to put root password to purpose |
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| 23:00.51 | DocScrutinizer | s/.conf// |
| 23:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | s/.conf/.d*/ |
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| 23:03.48 | Sargun | Is there an easy way to sync my maemo contacts with my online contacts? |
| 23:04.03 | Sargun | s/online/outlook |
| 23:04.44 | Proteous | from an exchange server? |
| 23:05.09 | Sargun | to would be better |
| 23:05.22 | Sargun | I imported a bunch on contacts in using some nifty little python script |
| 23:05.57 | Venemo | alterego: hey |
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| 23:06.43 | Proteous | with the built in email client you can sync your contacts with exchange but I don't know if it will use existing contacts on your phone. I didn't use that feature |
| 23:07.28 | Proteous | to be more clear, I don't know if it will sync existing contacts on your phone up to the exchange server |
| 23:07.51 | Sargun | I had it sync down my gmail contacts, but now I'd like to add all (new) contacts to outlook |
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| 23:14.42 | DocScrutinizer | if nothing else helps, exporting the contacts to a vcf file might |
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| 23:38.15 | corecode | how large is the user section of the display? |
| 23:38.22 | corecode | can i find that somehow with gtk? |
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