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| 02:00.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | GRRRRR |
| 02:01.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | fsckng DSL DHCP / PAP |
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| 02:22.36 | jonwil | wishes his n900 wasn't in the shop being fixed |
| 02:23.19 | jonwil | wants to try some dbus introspection calls on the SMS logic (its clear that the SMS csd plugin supports introspection in some form) |
| 02:23.48 | psycho_oreos | jonwil, you got any new commands for me to give you some feedback with? |
| 02:23.56 | jonwil | nope |
| 02:24.09 | jonwil | dont know any further steps to try, we need to find someone with dbus know-how :)]\ |
| 02:24.12 | jonwil | :) |
| 02:24.29 | psycho_oreos | grabs MohammadAG |
| 02:30.08 | b-man | sighs |
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| 03:38.55 | voltagex | hi, I'm getting massive amounts of lag when my N900 is on my WLAN - upwards of 500ms ping time... |
| 03:38.58 | voltagex | any ideas? |
| 03:39.05 | peregrin | so what is the diff between dbus and gconf? |
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| 03:41.45 | pahartik | peregrin: "gconf" is configuration storage database, "dbus" is interprocess communication bus |
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| 03:44.54 | peregrin | but dbus is used for runtime configuration, and and gconf changes are signaled to running programs no? |
| 03:46.17 | compengi | did anybody try meego on n900? |
| 03:47.53 | peregrin | does meego use rpm? and reshatisms in general? |
| 03:48.02 | peregrin | *redhatisms |
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| 04:02.57 | Kilroo | Hm. I wonder what would happen if one attempted to install the pacman for Arch Mobile on Maemo and start trying to use packages from the Arch Mobile repositories. Assuming Arch Mobile is that far along, that is. I think it is. |
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| 04:12.46 | psycho_oreos | voltagex_, is this a recurring thing? |
| 04:14.39 | psycho_oreos | pergrin_, meego does use rpm |
| 04:14.59 | psycho_oreos | compengi, you may want to also ask that same question in #meego as well |
| 04:15.18 | compengi | thanks psycho_oreos |
| 04:15.24 | psycho_oreos | compengi, nw |
| 04:21.28 | esaym153 | is there a version of libtheora that has encoding enabled for the n810 available for download anywhere? |
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| 06:49.19 | RobbieThe1st | Hey guys, can anyone tell me what libacl1 is used for on the n900? |
| 06:50.03 | RobbieThe1st | Also libattr1 |
| 06:50.22 | flux | 2.2.47-2 and 1:2.4.43-1 |
| 06:50.45 | RobbieThe1st | No; I mean what applications use them, and what -for-. |
| 06:50.57 | flux | oh, "for" :) |
| 06:51.11 | flux | samba appears to depend on libattr1 |
| 06:51.22 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1APzLRJJi8 << if you want some humor later - Doug Stanhope - Word of Mouth (comedy show, 1:20 minutes) |
| 06:51.41 | flux | rsync and samba both depend on libacl1 and libattr1 |
| 06:51.47 | flux | ..and coreutils-gnu |
| 06:52.03 | flux | so, I think, basically they are used only if you need them |
| 06:52.14 | RobbieThe1st | alright |
| 06:52.48 | RobbieThe1st | Thing is, I have both of those in my list of loaded libraries for BackupMenu... But I'm not sure why I added them, and am trying to figure out if they are even needed |
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| 06:53.22 | jacekowski | RobbieThe1st: for extended acls and attributes |
| 06:53.26 | jacekowski | RobbieThe1st: not used at all |
| 06:53.40 | RobbieThe1st | Alright |
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| 07:04.14 | RobbieThe1st | Oh gees... I forget; what do you use to connect to a serial-console on /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 07:04.23 | RobbieThe1st | (on the PC side, Linux) |
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| 07:04.56 | johnx | might be able to get away with screen, IIRC |
| 07:04.59 | mgedmin | screen works |
| 07:07.09 | RobbieThe1st | mgedmin: Uh... how? |
| 07:07.29 | mgedmin | screen /dev/ttyACM0 |
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| 07:09.18 | RobbieThe1st | Ah, there we go. Not sure why it wasn't working before. |
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| 08:14.05 | jonwil | Anyone here know anything about dbus? |
| 08:15.11 | jacekowski | little bit |
| 08:16.55 | Jartza | something, yes |
| 08:16.57 | jonwil | specifically dbus introspection? |
| 08:17.15 | Jartza | what about it |
| 08:18.20 | jonwil | I have some evidence that the SMS plugin supports dbus introspection using com.nokia.phone.SMS and /com/nokia/phone/SMS and want to find someone who can help me get a dump of whatever dbus introspection output said plugin supports. |
| 08:18.38 | jonwil | I would try myself but A.I know nothing about dbus and B.My N900 is still in the shop being fixed :) |
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| 08:19.36 | Jartza | dbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.SMS /com/nokia/phone/SMS org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect |
| 08:19.40 | Jartza | or something like that :) |
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| 08:20.33 | jonwil | ok, well as I said I dont have my n900 right now, is there someone who can try that and se eif it works? |
| 08:22.34 | RobbieThe1st | Sure |
| 08:23.50 | Jartza | might also be --system instead of --session |
| 08:23.52 | Jartza | not sure |
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| 08:26.24 | RobbieThe1st | Jartza: I just get "usage: bla bla bla" - it didn't like it |
| 08:26.37 | Jartza | jonwil: http://tulilahti.fi/n900.dbus.txt |
| 08:26.59 | Jartza | RobbieThe1st: you must have a typo, it did work for me, although it was --system instead of --session |
| 08:27.46 | RobbieThe1st | Oh, there we go |
| 08:28.01 | RobbieThe1st | --print-reply instead of --print_reply |
| 08:28.09 | Jartza | yeah |
| 08:28.26 | Jartza | anyway, the output is already there :) |
| 08:28.31 | Jartza | http://tulilahti.fi/n900.dbus.txt |
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| 08:29.19 | jacekowski | 22/#maemo.log:15:47 < jacekowski> i see function processing that cell broadcast calling dbus_message_new_signal( "/com/nokia/phone/SMS", "Phone.SMS", "IncomingCBS"); |
| 08:29.31 | jacekowski | Jartza: you may know what is it |
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| 08:31.48 | Jartza | jacekowski: sms cell broadcast |
| 08:32.43 | jacekowski | i know |
| 08:33.01 | jacekowski | but it goes like that |
| 08:33.37 | jacekowski | dbus_message_new_signal -> dbus_message_append_args -> dbus_connection_send |
| 08:33.49 | Jartza | yes |
| 08:33.59 | jacekowski | but i don't see message being sent |
| 08:34.08 | Jartza | hmm |
| 08:34.22 | Jartza | what do you mean by "don't see"? |
| 08:34.28 | jacekowski | with dbus_monitor |
| 08:34.58 | Jartza | are you using the correct bus? |
| 08:35.43 | jacekowski | i've tried session and system |
| 08:36.01 | Jartza | well system bus seems to be the correct one |
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| 08:36.59 | Jartza | how are you monitoring? |
| 08:37.08 | Jartza | just dbus-monitor --system ? |
| 08:37.13 | jacekowski | yes |
| 08:37.20 | Jartza | hmm |
| 08:37.32 | jonwil | It might be that libsms isnt sending the right stuff through to csd-sms |
| 08:37.36 | Jartza | should show up then. you might have some problem in sending code. |
| 08:37.49 | jacekowski | it's not my code |
| 08:38.00 | jonwil | This is Nokia code |
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| 08:38.06 | jonwil | responsible for SMS |
| 08:38.10 | jonwil | inside csd-sms plugin |
| 08:39.41 | jonwil | What happens is that csd-sms calls a function called isi_sms_get_callbacks in libsms and fills in one of the callback fields with the function responsible for triggering the IncomingCBS signal |
| 08:41.38 | jacekowski | .text:00003EDC IncomingCBS |
| 08:41.41 | jonwil | It may well be that libsms never actually calls that callback and doesn't implement the right cell broadcast stuff |
| 08:41.47 | jacekowski | it does |
| 08:42.06 | jonwil | so you know for a fact that the function inside csd-sms at 00003EDC is called? |
| 08:42.12 | jacekowski | yes |
| 08:42.35 | jonwil | well I do know some of the nokia dbus things cant be easily monitored with dbus-monitor |
| 08:42.40 | jonwil | or I think so anyway |
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| 08:46.57 | jonwil | Would be nice to figure out what type those arguments are |
| 08:47.10 | jonwil | i.e. the "ay", "u" and "y" |
| 08:47.26 | jonwil | Google doesnt show any usefull results for that |
| 08:51.43 | Jartza | dunno that deeply |
| 08:51.56 | Jartza | I haven't messed that much with the actual sms/call-stuff |
| 08:54.27 | jonwil | well I am guessing that the valid type values would be standardized somewhere in the dbus code |
| 08:54.35 | jonwil | I mean the dbus specs |
| 08:54.38 | jonwil | but I cant find anything\ |
| 08:56.26 | jonwil | in any case I suspect that if someone can figure out how to wire up the IncomingCBS signal and write a UI that does something with the data, it will be possible to have working Cell Broadcast on N900 |
| 08:58.44 | Jartza | jonwil: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html |
| 08:58.52 | Jartza | that specifies what do those letters mean |
| 08:59.03 | Jartza | y = BYTE, i = INT32 etc... |
| 08:59.26 | Jartza | and there can also be arrays of things etc |
| 08:59.35 | jonwil | thanks |
| 08:59.36 | Jartza | ay = array of bytes... |
| 09:01.33 | jonwil | yeah I got it now |
| 09:02.31 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 09:03.29 | jonwil | the array of bytes is obviously the actual SMS message |
| 09:03.47 | jonwil | but the rest (uint32, uint32, byte, byte, byte) is totally unknown |
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| 09:04.51 | Jartza | some status codes maybe |
| 09:05.02 | jonwil | maybe |
| 09:05.30 | SpeedEvil | there will be a byte for CBS channel |
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| 09:06.02 | jonwil | yeah I would imagine so |
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| 09:09.53 | SpeedEvil | timestamp? |
| 09:10.16 | psycho_oreos | any of you guys do unofficial language translations? |
| 09:11.08 | SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp does I think sometimes. |
| 09:11.13 | psycho_oreos | or know how to deal with localedef? :) |
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| 09:11.14 | SpeedEvil | He's not here right now though. |
| 09:11.24 | psycho_oreos | bah, thanks :/ |
| 09:12.04 | jonwil | I posted the most recent info to bug 8347 |
| 09:12.06 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available |
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| 09:34.30 | jonwil | Now that we know exactly what the CBSMS code is doing, the chance that we can convince some Nokia people to provide some docs for the IncomingCBS signal is increased IMO |
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| 09:35.52 | SpeedEvil | Hopefully. |
| 09:36.02 | SpeedEvil | Are you actually seeing CBSMS mesages on dbus? |
| 09:36.18 | SpeedEvil | Or are they just the 'setup' or 'message available' ones? |
| 09:36.36 | jonwil | someone said the relavent signal is being signaled |
| 09:36.54 | jonwil | or rather that the function inside csd-sms is being called |
| 09:39.54 | RobbieThe1st | It's a very bad idea to try to backup an OS partition when it's running off that partition, right? |
| 09:40.21 | psycho_oreos | RobbieThe1st, yes |
| 09:40.48 | SpeedEvil | Depends |
| 09:40.52 | RobbieThe1st | psycho_oreos: Can you give me some good references why not? I believe it. |
| 09:41.02 | RobbieThe1st | SpeedEvil: Maemo, specificially |
| 09:41.12 | SpeedEvil | If you copy the files as files, then it's typically no worse than switching off at a random time |
| 09:41.33 | SpeedEvil | However, you can get pathalogical cases - for example - you're backing up a directory. |
| 09:41.47 | SpeedEvil | Something moves the files from it into an earlier directory you've already backed up |
| 09:41.50 | SpeedEvil | data-loss |
| 09:42.02 | psycho_oreos | RobbieThe1st, because if lets say the backup stuff uses the stuff that also belongs to the OS being backed up, it may cause issues when being copied |
| 09:43.06 | RobbieThe1st | So, we've got a library. It's being used by the OS. When we try to copy it...? |
| 09:43.28 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: It works fine. |
| 09:43.59 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: As root, the 'used by the OS' - at least in linux - argument tends to be weaker. As I understand it, it's stronger on windows. |
| 09:44.56 | RobbieThe1st | Alright... On Windows, I think we have the Volume Shadow Copy service to solve that... But that's beside the point |
| 09:45.50 | RobbieThe1st | My problem is that someone on my BackupMenu topic has the "great idea" that he ought to be able to just backup the rootfs while the system is running. |
| 09:46.15 | RobbieThe1st | I'm not sure what exactly to say. It doesn't seem like a good idea - I had trouble messing with it a while back.. |
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| 09:49.01 | SpeedEvil | It will typically usually work. |
| 09:49.14 | SpeedEvil | (from my experience with 'normal' linux) |
| 09:49.26 | SpeedEvil | The fun part is you can't tell when it breaks. |
| 09:49.41 | RobbieThe1st | ah, yea |
| 09:49.50 | SpeedEvil | In principle, you could drop to single-user mode |
| 09:49.57 | SpeedEvil | But I'm unsure how well that works on n900 |
| 09:50.53 | Jartza | agh. can't get anything done today :) |
| 09:51.07 | Jartza | I'm just laughing my ass off for these "band shreds" from sts :) |
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| 09:52.00 | Jartza | http://www.stsanders.com/www/pages/videos/band-shreds/sts-rolling-stones.php etc :) |
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| 10:30.14 | Venemo | hi guys |
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| 10:34.16 | alterego | Hey Venemo |
| 10:34.21 | alterego | Hey MohammadAG |
| 10:34.31 | MohammadAG | hey alterego |
| 10:34.39 | MohammadAG | Just popping in on holidays |
| 10:34.54 | alterego | Cool, doing anything fun with your time? |
| 10:35.42 | MohammadAG | Anything maemo related? guess not :p |
| 10:35.47 | Venemo | good morning MohammadAG :) |
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| 11:14.44 | alterego | Looks like another quiet day ... |
| 11:15.20 | Venemo | alterego: it is |
| 11:16.06 | alterego | starts setting up an OBS |
| 11:18.48 | alterego | Actually, I need to figure out how to disassemble this Nokia C7 |
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| 11:20.50 | dm8tbr | alterego: what distro will you target with your obs? |
| 11:21.38 | Venemo | alterego: why do you wanna disassemble it? |
| 11:22.27 | alterego | Venemo: it's broken |
| 11:22.32 | alterego | dm8tbr: fremantle and meego handset |
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| 11:23.15 | dm8tbr | alterego: you know about the intricacies of setting up for fremantle? |
| 11:24.54 | ieatlint | take pictures if you disassemble the c7 :) |
| 11:25.09 | alterego | dm8tbr: I have an idea, it's more about research at the moment. |
| 11:25.16 | alterego | ieatlint: why? There are loads on the internet :P |
| 11:25.32 | ieatlint | oh ... ok then ... nm :) |
| 11:25.47 | dm8tbr | there was something about qmake or so being x86 although it should be arm I can look it up if necessary |
| 11:25.57 | SpeedEvil | http://www.a2phone.com/nokia-c7-00-rm-675-l1l2-service-manual-version-30 alterego |
| 11:26.04 | ieatlint | go tell nokia to enable the nfc chip then |
| 11:26.20 | dm8tbr | We set up a test-OBS within Tieto and wrote down a few of the things we needed to do to make it work. |
| 11:26.39 | alterego | I'm looking at a Nokia C7-00 RM-675 "Nokia Care Academy" Disassembly and Assembly PDF |
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| 11:33.02 | RST38h | You are ready to disassemble your C7? So soon? |
| 11:34.30 | alterego | It's not mine |
| 11:34.33 | alterego | And it's broken,. |
| 11:34.49 | DocScrutinizer | tzz |
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| 11:35.06 | Jartza | In Finland we have the saying, "Tieto lisää tuskaa" |
| 11:35.33 | alterego | What does that mean |
| 11:36.06 | Jartza | hmm |
| 11:36.21 | Jartza | Knowledge increases agony... or close to that :) |
| 11:36.22 | alterego | kind of wants a "Nokia Standard Toolkit" (version 2) |
| 11:36.25 | Jartza | Tieto == Knowledge |
| 11:36.27 | alterego | Heh |
| 11:36.30 | alterego | Cool |
| 11:36.52 | Jartza | it's a sort of like finnish equivalent to "Ignorance is a bliss" :) |
| 11:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | for the ignorant only |
| 11:37.14 | Jartza | sure |
| 11:37.29 | alterego | Very nice |
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| 11:38.03 | jonwil | Time to resume reverse engineering the USB status bar widget |
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| 11:41.28 | alterego | jonwil: why? |
| 11:41.49 | jonwil | someone posted a bug asking for it to be open sourced so it can be modified to do more |
| 11:42.07 | jonwil | specifically being able to switch USB mode without unplugging and replugging the cable |
| 11:42.57 | DocScrutinizer | now that will be hard to implement |
| 11:43.21 | jonwil | so you say there is no point reverse engineering the USB plugin? |
| 11:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | pugin? |
| 11:43.43 | jonwil | status bar plugin |
| 11:43.45 | DocScrutinizer | err plugin? |
| 11:44.28 | jonwil | ? |
| 11:44.43 | DocScrutinizer | uhm, no idea. I just can tell you it's not that easy to tell USB to spoof a disconnect and the trigger a new ENUM at PC host |
| 11:44.46 | alterego | You don't need to use the usb plugin for that. |
| 11:45.04 | alterego | And yeah, like DocScrutinizer said, unlikely that it'll even work. |
| 11:45.04 | jonwil | ok, well I wont bother reverse engineering it then |
| 11:45.28 | alterego | jonwil: basically all the plugin does is insmod and rmmod either g_nokia or g_storage |
| 11:45.42 | RobbieThe1st | Hm, out of curiosity, what brings up the "USB connected" interface when you plug in a USB cable? You know, the interface with "Mass Storage" and "PC Suite" modes |
| 11:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | udev? |
| 11:46.09 | DocScrutinizer | g_nokia actually |
| 11:47.06 | jonwil | well the usb widget plugin is doing some dbus calls |
| 11:47.26 | alterego | Calls or making signals? |
| 11:47.35 | jonwil | but yeah those appear to be dbus calls to load those modules |
| 11:47.37 | RobbieThe1st | I'm just curious as to how hard it would be to edit it - Once we have JRBME, it would be nice to have a "slow-charge/"fast charge" button on that interface - i.e. 500ma /max. |
| 11:48.14 | alterego | Hard to edit, easy to replace. |
| 11:48.23 | DocScrutinizer | talk to MohammadAG to augment h-e-n GUI to include that |
| 11:48.42 | DocScrutinizer | actually h-e-n GUI is about to become jrbme GUI anyway |
| 11:48.54 | jonwil | I believe it is the usb_plugin.so that displays the UI in question |
| 11:49.17 | jonwil | and yes it looks like it would be easier to replace than to clone and edit |
| 11:49.26 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 11:49.35 | DocScrutinizer | have a nice sunday! |
| 11:49.39 | RobbieThe1st | DocScrutinizer: When h-e-n is installed, that comes up when any usb port is plugged in? |
| 11:50.04 | jonwil | "usb-plugin::Mass Storage mode button pressed" is comming from the USB plugin |
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| 11:50.12 | jonwil | so yes its definatly doing the UI in question :) |
| 11:50.34 | alterego | jonwil: I would have thought that was obvious, status bar plugins are pretty well documented. |
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| 11:58.13 | jonwil | ok, so other things I am thinking of cloning include the internet status bar plugin (the one that does wifi) because someone said they wanted to add a wifi signal strength item to it |
| 11:58.23 | jonwil | also the battery status bar applet sounds interesting |
| 11:59.08 | jonwil | also maybe the wlan config dialogs |
| 11:59.32 | jonwil | Whats jrbme? |
| 11:59.34 | alterego | connects his second N900 to the internet for the first time. :o |
| 11:59.36 | jonwil | BME clone? |
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| 12:00.40 | jonwil | ok, I see now |
| 12:01.51 | jonwil | is jrbme intended to be a compatible clone (as in compatible with the higher level bits that talk to bme) or will those bits be replaced? |
| 12:02.09 | alterego | jonwil: Should be compatible. |
| 12:03.05 | jonwil | so you mean that its intended to speak to libbmeipc in the same way as the nokia BME? |
| 12:03.22 | alterego | I'd imagine so |
| 12:03.49 | jonwil | ok, in that case it sounds like playing with libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme is pointless |
| 12:04.15 | alterego | goes through removing all the balls from a clean N900 |
| 12:05.17 | alterego | Just noticed the MAC address for my N900 and my brothers share the same first three hex paris. |
| 12:05.20 | alterego | ~pairs |
| 12:05.31 | alterego | This new one is totally different |
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| 12:12.29 | jonwil | hmmm, still stuck on what to reverse engineer next |
| 12:12.31 | asj__ | alterego: the first 3 octets are the mfg oui |
| 12:12.46 | jonwil | Maybe I will go back and finish the wlan status bar plugin |
| 12:12.52 | alterego | asj__: yeah, I guess Nokia must have ran out of their allocation |
| 12:12.54 | asj__ | alterego: basically it tells you who made it,t here's a lookup table for it |
| 12:13.26 | Venemo | jonwil: if you clone that, please make sure that the dialog it opens will work in portrait mode |
| 12:13.34 | asj__ | alterego: or different plant, different run, who knows how they assign them |
| 12:13.39 | jonwil | well my plan is to finish my 1:1 clone |
| 12:13.42 | alterego | Yeah |
| 12:13.44 | jonwil | and let someone else enhance it |
| 12:14.12 | alterego | jonwil: portrait mode is ~1 line of code :P |
| 12:14.16 | alterego | Seriously, just do it. |
| 12:14.19 | jonwil | :P |
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| 12:14.44 | asj__ | wow nokia has 211 ouis |
| 12:15.02 | alterego | asj__: :) |
| 12:15.14 | alterego | asj__: they have a lot of devices. |
| 12:15.20 | alterego | Phones are more popular than computers ffs |
| 12:15.50 | alterego | I wonder how popular phones with wifi are |
| 12:16.10 | jonwil | phones with wifi are getting more and more popular |
| 12:16.17 | alterego | Sure |
| 12:16.38 | alterego | But still Nokias most sold phones don't have wifi |
| 12:16.39 | asj__ | alterego: between wifi, bt, etc. Each oui is 16million devices though |
| 12:16.49 | alterego | (At least I'd hazzard a guess at that being the case) |
| 12:18.23 | asj__ | probably fair, a lot of symbian phones are nothing more than feature phones |
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| 12:19.22 | jacekowski | my sisters android crap have failed miserably |
| 12:19.50 | jacekowski | and now she has black cross on lcd and |
| 12:20.11 | kerio | maemo++ |
| 12:20.14 | jonwil | From the looks of things, the tv out applet has already been copied |
| 12:20.36 | jonwil | the USB app has already been covered |
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| 12:21.04 | alterego | asj__: I'm talking series 40, not even Symbian :) |
| 12:21.25 | alterego | Symbian are still Nokia high end really. Most sales for Nokia are supposedly cheap Series 40 handsets. |
| 12:21.42 | asj__ | alterego: mmm, but I remember the number of symbian phones last quarter or year was some huge millions |
| 12:21.44 | alterego | Admittedly they will all probably have bluetooth. |
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| 12:21.56 | jonwil | Even lower end phones these days have bluetooth |
| 12:22.02 | jonwil | because its cheap to add |
| 12:22.09 | alterego | asj__: sure, Nokia do sell a lot of phones ;) |
| 12:22.16 | jonwil | and it provides a great upsell selling car kits, headsets etc |
| 12:22.32 | jonwil | not to mention that more and more countries are requiring bluetooth handsfree use when driving |
| 12:22.38 | jonwil | well handsfree anyway |
| 12:22.43 | fser | hello |
| 12:22.52 | fser | Is maemo only for N900? |
| 12:22.54 | asj__ | 3 points and $250 here |
| 12:23.36 | kerio | jonwil: well, nobody uses wired proprietary handsfree |
| 12:23.49 | jonwil | used it the other day |
| 12:23.54 | jonwil | but as antenna for the FM radio app :P |
| 12:23.55 | alterego | fser: in short, yes. |
| 12:24.08 | jonwil | Not sure whether I should clone the battery status bar app, the wlan status bar app, another status bar app (although none of the others seem worth doing), the wlan config dialogs, hald-addon-bme, libbmeipc, more work on the CBSMS stuff or what |
| 12:24.30 | fser | because I've not found much information about that |
| 12:24.40 | alterego | fser: actually, no, the Nokia N900 is the current (and last Maemo) device, we've had four before the N900, the Nokia 770, the Nokia N800, Nokia N810 and Nokia N810 WiMax |
| 12:24.45 | jonwil | looking for something to reverse engineer, clone, document, figure out or pull to bits that the dev community are going to care about |
| 12:25.09 | alterego | jonwil: GPS |
| 12:25.24 | jonwil | GPS is too hard |
| 12:25.36 | alterego | Specifically, getting and setting agps data |
| 12:25.41 | jonwil | its all done via a daemon containing a mountain of hard-to-copy algorithins |
| 12:25.42 | alterego | pfft :P |
| 12:25.51 | fser | :( |
| 12:25.52 | jonwil | actually, let me take another look |
| 12:25.58 | jacktheripper | I see a GSoC student almost completed porting canola2 to maemo5. I just can't find the source tree or a new package. |
| 12:26.13 | jonwil | whats canola2? |
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| 12:27.07 | alterego | jonwil: Canola is a media player application developed by a company that were setup by Nokia to do research and development. |
| 12:27.12 | alterego | It's a pretty media player at that. |
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| 12:27.15 | jonwil | interesting |
| 12:27.20 | alterego | Using (I believe) E17 graphics libraries. |
| 12:27.38 | jonwil | ok, GPS stuff is done through location-daemon package |
| 12:27.39 | jonwil | T |
| 12:27.44 | jonwil | location-daemon talks to liblas |
| 12:27.50 | jonwil | " |
| 12:27.53 | jonwil | "A dynamic library(LIBLAS) provides services for a communication between OSSO and CellMo Location Server." |
| 12:28.08 | jonwil | liblas depends on libisi to talk to cellmo |
| 12:28.18 | jonwil | Might be worth digging into liblas then |
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| 12:28.23 | jonwil | figure out how to talk to liblas |
| 12:28.24 | jacktheripper | well this seems like good news. But the source tree is down. http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2010/Projects/Porting_Canola_to_Maemo5 |
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| 12:39.47 | jonwil | nope, liblas and location-daemon is too complex to figure out |
| 12:40.11 | jonwil | actually, it might be possible to figure out the packets liblas sends to libicd and hence the cellmodem |
| 12:40.36 | RST38h | Is mikecomputing a troll, or is he just fresh and eager to chat? |
| 12:40.39 | alterego | Well, we've already had progress starting and stopping GPS, as well as decoding the data the GPS sends out. |
| 12:40.57 | alterego | What we're lacking is the ability to do agps functionality. |
| 12:41.23 | alterego | I managed to find out how to get the agps data, but putting it into the gps is something I've not looked into yet. |
| 12:41.58 | jonwil | how did you get the AGPS data? |
| 12:42.15 | alterego | tcpdump |
| 12:42.29 | jonwil | so you dont know what daemon or library is dealing with it? |
| 12:42.35 | jonwil | and what is this in aid of? |
| 12:42.37 | alterego | Doesn't matter. |
| 12:42.45 | jonwil | replacing the telephony stack with something free? |
| 12:42.46 | alterego | An open GPS driver |
| 12:42.55 | jonwil | open GPS would be good for MeeGo |
| 12:43.06 | alterego | This has nothing to do with telephony, we already have an open one with ofono |
| 12:43.10 | alterego | Yes, |
| 12:43.19 | jonwil | but AGPS ties into telephony] |
| 12:43.20 | alterego | As the current state of N900 GPS in MeeGo is exactly what we have in maemo |
| 12:43.22 | alterego | So it's closed. |
| 12:43.23 | jonwil | because of how AGPS works |
| 12:43.26 | alterego | No it doesn't. |
| 12:43.42 | jonwil | oh ok, I thought it used the towers to help improve the GPS data |
| 12:43.44 | alterego | It ties into telephony as far as your cellid |
| 12:43.47 | alterego | No |
| 12:43.47 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 12:43.55 | alterego | It uses towers to get a rough idea of where on Earth you are. |
| 12:44.16 | alterego | That information is then added to a HTTP connection to a nokia server which replies with the appropriate ephemeris data. |
| 12:44.23 | jonwil | in any case as the GPS is attached to the cell modem, you presumably talk to it via phonet/isi, right? |
| 12:44.24 | alterego | That data is then some how injected into the GPS |
| 12:44.30 | alterego | No |
| 12:44.38 | jonwil | ok, so how do you talk to it? |
| 12:44.55 | alterego | tries to find the source. |
| 12:44.57 | alterego | Ang on |
| 12:45.55 | alterego | Yes, it is phonet ;) |
| 12:46.03 | alterego | jonwil: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering |
| 12:46.08 | alterego | Had a brain fart moment. |
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| 12:48.21 | jonwil | do you happen to know the name of the nokia AGPS server? |
| 12:48.44 | alterego | supl.nokia.com |
| 12:48.59 | alterego | Which then resolves to something like: uk.nokia.supl.geodns.fi |
| 12:49.15 | alterego | Regardless you talk to it on port 80 |
| 12:49.42 | jonwil | greps his n900 filedump for that host to find out who is talking to it |
| 12:49.48 | jonwil | from there, I can find out where the data goes |
| 12:49.55 | jonwil | as in what phonet calls get made |
| 12:50.10 | alterego | That would be great :) |
| 12:50.19 | MohammadAG | Angry birds is kinda cool on the ps3 |
| 12:50.26 | MohammadAG | cept for the shitty controls |
| 12:50.29 | MohammadAG | the fps is high |
| 12:51.04 | jonwil | ok, looks like that server name comes from a gconf config |
| 12:51.24 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 12:51.27 | MohammadAG | yep, set from Settings > Location |
| 12:51.35 | jonwil | said gconf config claims to be owned by "liblocation" |
| 12:52.29 | jonwil | as neither liblas nor location-daemon call gconf, it must be liblocation then |
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| 12:53.16 | alterego | downloads windows 7 |
| 12:53.30 | alterego | Does Ovi suite work okay with windows 7 64 bit? |
| 12:53.37 | *** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod) |
| 12:53.56 | alterego | btw, this isn't illegal, I've got an MSDN license ^.^ |
| 12:54.17 | *** join/#maemo kwtm (~kwtm1@adsl-75-61-98-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 12:54.19 | MohammadAG | alterego, yes |
| 12:54.27 | alterego | MohammadAG: thanks |
| 12:54.34 | MohammadAG | alterego, and if you do download win 7 x64, can you do me a favor? :P |
| 12:54.45 | alterego | MohammadAG: what's that? |
| 12:55.05 | MohammadAG | Need some dlls to fix my broken install |
| 12:55.11 | jonwil | ok, nope, its not liblocation either |
| 12:55.14 | Appiah | is there no way to set the musicplayer to fade out/in to next track? |
| 12:55.21 | MohammadAG | Appiah, no |
| 12:55.38 | MohammadAG | mafw can be edited to do so I guess |
| 12:55.50 | Appiah | mafw is that another musicplayer? |
| 12:56.09 | MohammadAG | no, it's the backend |
| 12:56.18 | Appiah | O_o |
| 12:56.56 | jonwil | oh wait, it is liblocation |
| 12:57.30 | jonwil | or not |
| 12:57.35 | jonwil | no its liblocation_applet |
| 12:57.41 | jonwil | no, wait, thats what sets it |
| 12:58.31 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:58.57 | MohammadAG | as I set a shitload of lines above :P |
| 12:59.49 | jonwil | BINGO. Location_Proxy is where I need to look |
| 13:00.21 | jonwil | hmmm, that package installs a SMS handler called supl_mt_sms.handler |
| 13:01.07 | jonwil | which passes certain SMS messages to location-proxy or so |
| 13:01.24 | Appiah | Guess I'll make a feature request |
| 13:02.45 | *** join/#maemo Sickki (sickki@unaffiliated/sickki) |
| 13:04.03 | jonwil | yep, definatly location-proxy is doing the supl stuff |
| 13:07.36 | Appiah | MohammadAG: your opinion , should I request the feature in multimedia framework or the mediaplayer? |
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| 13:16.14 | trumee | does fmms allow receiving of video messages? |
| 13:17.44 | trumee | has a feeling this question must have been asked thousand times before :p |
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| 13:24.42 | jonwil | ok, looking into the code I can see it sending a request to an isi/phonet resource with a resource ID of 0x54 |
| 13:25.10 | jonwil | which is a resource ID not documented in anything I have... |
| 13:26.20 | jonwil | everything in liblas sends to that resource ID |
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| 13:28.59 | jonwil | My guess is that Nokia has never documented the isi/phonet interface related to GPS/AGPS |
| 13:30.24 | jonwil | and therefore the only way forward is to reverse engineer location-daemon and liblas |
| 13:30.55 | jonwil | or to ask Nokia for some documentation on the phonet interface for GPS/AGPS (which since its for MeeGo and not Maemo is more likely to succeed) |
| 13:33.25 | Gyjf | so, whats the deal with meego? |
| 13:34.08 | dm8tbr | jonwil: one problem can be that anything related to the nl_somethingsomething chipset seems to be NDA by TI |
| 13:34.39 | dm8tbr | and official TI statement was that there will never be any public documentation or code from them |
| 13:34.50 | Gyjf | can it natively run maemo programs? can it run on the n900? hows the driver suppoer? |
| 13:35.09 | jonwil | My guess is TI need to keep the GPS stuff closed because of the heavy government regulation surrounding GPS |
| 13:35.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | jonwil: could you find out about exact format (of at least trigger) of that SMS that supl_mt_sms.handler is messing around with? |
| 13:35.21 | dm8tbr | jonwil: that's also my guess |
| 13:37.16 | jonwil | Cant find out more about that SMS, its all tied up inside sms-manager |
| 13:37.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | jonwil: nah, the GPS restrictions from gvmt are negligable |
| 13:38.09 | jonwil | isnt there a rule about civilian GPS that you have to make sure it wont operate in ways that would allow it to be used for weapons |
| 13:38.17 | jonwil | e.g. using it for the targeting system of a missile |
| 13:38.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | also note that you're talking to cellmo and its firmware, not to the gps chip directly |
| 13:38.30 | jonwil | hmmm yeah good pointh |
| 13:38.34 | jonwil | good point |
| 13:39.33 | jonwil | either way, someone from the MeeGo camp should talk to the right people at Nokia and see what they say. The worst that can happen is that nokia says "no we cant reveal the isi interface for GPS because of NDA" |
| 13:39.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | and the restrictions you refer to are more like no <$$$$$ commercial chipset is able to violate them |
| 13:40.16 | dm8tbr | btw: I think there is already movement WRT the GPS |
| 13:40.30 | BCMM | jonwil: civilian GPS chips won't work above a certain altitude or speed |
| 13:40.36 | dm8tbr | or atleast plans. I seem to remember that 'will be like SGX' though |
| 13:40.45 | alterego | dm8tbr: in MeeGo, yes, but it's the same closed system we have for Maemo |
| 13:40.56 | dm8tbr | *nod* |
| 13:40.59 | alterego | And that, will simply not do :) |
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| 13:41.14 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo` (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) |
| 13:41.15 | BCMM | jonwil: it prevents use as a ballstic missile guidance system, but they can't do much about cruise missiles since they effectively behave like any other aircraft |
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| 13:44.21 | RST38h | makes a mental note: that ballistic approach should probably be scrapped in favor of the multiple cruise missile system. |
| 13:44.57 | jonwil | ok, looking at liblas, it registers a bunch of callback handlers for the GPS resource ID. One of these is for the message 0x92 described in the reverse engineering document |
| 13:45.08 | jonwil | this is wired to a function called hybrid_tracking_ntf |
| 13:46.50 | *** join/#maemo tuho (~t@a91-153-38-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:48.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | o/ |
| 13:48.34 | jonwil | so yeah I think we need to either A.Do a LOT more logging of the GPS packets as sent to the cellmo and reverse engineer a lot more packet types |
| 13:48.39 | jonwil | as sent in both directions |
| 13:48.57 | jonwil | B.Reverse engineer liblas and its users directly |
| 13:49.00 | jonwil | which is hard |
| 13:49.22 | jonwil | or C.Ask Nokia for some docs on the cellmo GPS protocol and hope they can help (which is IMO unlikely) |
| 13:49.49 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:51.27 | jacekowski | somebody here reversed that protocol |
| 13:52.39 | alterego | jacekowski: not the agps parts .. |
| 13:53.38 | *** join/#maemo Bash1 (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:54.31 | jacekowski | agps is handled by rapuyama itself |
| 13:54.54 | alterego | jacekowski: what do you base that on? |
| 13:55.06 | jacekowski | agps code in rapuyama firmware |
| 13:55.15 | alterego | Interesting. |
| 13:55.29 | alterego | So there's agps stuff in the cmt? |
| 13:55.50 | jacekowski | let me get another laptop out |
| 13:56.05 | jacekowski | but you can search for example for agps server addresses |
| 13:56.56 | jonwil | GPS from the host point of view involves sending ISI packets to ISI resource 0x54 |
| 13:57.02 | alterego | Anyhow, in which case, we need a little blob that can provide agps data to cellmo, and handle requests for agps data. |
| 13:57.12 | jacekowski | nope |
| 13:57.23 | jacekowski | cellmo can get it's own agps data |
| 13:57.40 | alterego | No it can't. |
| 13:57.49 | jacekowski | yes it can |
| 13:57.51 | alterego | It needs network connection |
| 13:57.56 | jacekowski | ekhm |
| 13:57.57 | alterego | working DNS server address. |
| 13:57.58 | jacekowski | it's a modem |
| 13:58.08 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@213.139.60.93) |
| 13:58.08 | kerio | jacekowski: wifi |
| 13:58.11 | jacekowski | that can run whole phone |
| 13:58.17 | jacekowski | you can't do agps on wifi |
| 13:58.19 | alterego | So you're saying it has an ip stack built in? |
| 13:58.22 | alterego | jacekowski: yes you can. |
| 13:58.25 | jonwil | what we need is some info (reverse engineered or otherwise) on what the format of the different messages that can be sent to/from resource 0x54 |
| 13:58.39 | alterego | the cellmo doesn't handle the agps request to supl.nokia.com |
| 13:59.03 | jonwil | that request is handled by the location-proxy daemon\ |
| 13:59.05 | alterego | It either asks a service to do it, or the service (liblocation) does it anyway and injects the data into the cellmo. |
| 13:59.17 | alterego | s/cellmo/gps/ |
| 14:00.38 | *** part/#maemo bubo (~bubo@178-191-215-210.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:01.23 | jonwil | liblocation has nothing to do with agps |
| 14:01.57 | jonwil | everything GPS is done by calls made to liblas by locartion-proxy and lication-daemon |
| 14:02.27 | alterego | jonwil: I'm using "liblocation" as an umbrella term for all of that crap sorry :P |
| 14:02.32 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 14:02.42 | alterego | Nokia user space, closed GPS services. |
| 14:02.45 | alterego | and libraries |
| 14:03.35 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-123-21-249.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:03.39 | alterego | I'm guessing the cellmo stuff jacekowski found in cmt is probably something completely different. |
| 14:03.53 | alterego | I'd imagine it's related to Nokia remote back door :D |
| 14:04.05 | jonwil | I think best way forward is to ask Nokia for isi GPS packet format (i.e. resource type 0x54) and if we cant get that, ask for liblas header files |
| 14:04.22 | *** join/#maemo tuho (~t@a91-153-38-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:04.44 | alterego | Having liblas headers doesn't really help |
| 14:04.51 | alterego | We're still stuck with a closed gps |
| 14:04.54 | jonwil | it does |
| 14:05.06 | jonwil | it makes it much easier to reverse engineer the GPS isi packets |
| 14:05.10 | jonwil | at least for me it would |
| 14:06.05 | alterego | I don't see how. |
| 14:06.15 | jonwil | trust me, it would :) |
| 14:06.27 | jonwil | but yeah asking for the isi GPS packet info would be the best way to go |
| 14:06.39 | jonwil | the worst that can happen is that Nokia says no to sharing that packet info |
| 14:06.57 | alterego | We managed to get the information on the wiki page without liblas headers .. |
| 14:07.20 | jonwil | well yeah thats brute-reverse-engineering of the TCP packets |
| 14:07.25 | jonwil | which for some people is easy |
| 14:07.29 | *** join/#maemo JJ_Bram (~chris@c-98-211-245-2.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:07.34 | alterego | :) |
| 14:07.36 | jonwil | but I wouldn't know where to start with that |
| 14:07.41 | alterego | Yeah, I didn't find it too hard :P |
| 14:07.43 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:07.48 | alterego | strac |
| 14:07.51 | alterego | ~strace |
| 14:07.51 | infobot | well, strace is a system-calls tracer. spits out a useful trace to stderr. To trace the command 'cmd with params' use: 'strace cmd with params' |
| 14:07.58 | alterego | stfu infobot |
| 14:08.26 | jonwil | but yeah someone with the contacts should ask Nokia for that info |
| 14:08.39 | alterego | I'll ask |
| 14:08.46 | alterego | On Thursday |
| 14:08.49 | jonwil | ok |
| 14:08.54 | JJ_Bram | I was wondering if anyone has added the ability to send txts to contact groups yet. I've com across a lot of brain storms about it and a lot of threads bringing it up but can't find any sign of an implementation. |
| 14:09.04 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-17-198.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:09.10 | alterego | JJ_Bram: we don't have contact groups |
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| 14:09.29 | JJ_Bram | Right...so no one has done any work to create them I take it? |
| 14:09.43 | ArGGu^^ | is there way to catch QKeyEvent from the virtual keyboard? |
| 14:09.46 | JJ_Bram | How hard would that be to do? |
| 14:10.12 | alterego | ArGGu^^: say what you're trying to do, that question doesn't make much sense. |
| 14:10.31 | alterego | ArGGu^^: unless you're talking about implementing 'keyPressEvent(QKeyEvent *event)' virtual function in your widget subclass .. |
| 14:12.36 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: do not shout at infobot! |
| 14:12.42 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:13.00 | JJ_Bram | Is the contacts app nokia closed source? |
| 14:13.08 | ArGGu^^ | alterego I have keyReleaseEvent but I don't get any event when using virtual keyboard |
| 14:13.09 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: we won't redefine attention key, just to meet your weird usage patterns |
| 14:13.42 | alterego | ArGGu^^: that's because the virtual keyboard doesn't work like the keyboard does. |
| 14:14.04 | alterego | ArGGu^^: you're going to have to look at how the vkb works. |
| 14:14.05 | ArGGu^^ | And QLineEdit wont emit returnpressed with virtual keyboard :S |
| 14:14.20 | jonwil | Someone with some contacts should try and ask Nokia about the IncomingCBS dbus signal :P |
| 14:15.27 | DocScrutinizer | JJ_Bram: afaik yes |
| 14:15.56 | JJ_Bram | Well, that would explain why we don't have contact groups then... |
| 14:16.10 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 14:16.58 | DocScrutinizer | JJ_Bram: that explains a lot of brainfart. Also e.g. why it's been so incredibly hard to implement per-contact ringtones |
| 14:16.59 | JJ_Bram | And how about the app that handles sending sms? |
| 14:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | closed |
| 14:17.14 | jonwil | Everything related to SMS is nokia-closed-source |
| 14:17.22 | jonwil | as is everything related to making phone call |
| 14:17.26 | jonwil | its all inter-related |
| 14:17.28 | jonwil | and all closed |
| 14:17.33 | jonwil | unfortunatly |
| 14:17.37 | DocScrutinizer | as is contacts, and calendar |
| 14:17.37 | JJ_Bram | Hmm |
| 14:17.48 | alterego | Well, that's not entirely true |
| 14:17.56 | alterego | contacts and calendar use evolution backend. |
| 14:18.07 | JJ_Bram | Any chance they will open it up now that they are moving on to meego? |
| 14:18.14 | alterego | And the contacts lib, which is basically an evo wrapper is foss |
| 14:18.24 | jonwil | the move to meego means even less likelyhood of opening stuff up |
| 14:18.37 | jonwil | Opening this stuff up would require opening up the telephony stack |
| 14:18.41 | alterego | Sure, but these things are mostly open in MeeGo |
| 14:18.42 | DocScrutinizer | just because they suck |
| 14:18.56 | alterego | At least in MeeGo we have working free user space apps :) |
| 14:19.15 | JJ_Bram | Great...but I don't have the money for a new phone and I like this one lol. Plus who knows when they will actually have a meego phone out. |
| 14:19.26 | *** join/#maemo linuxplatform (~fedora@188.148.96.149) |
| 14:19.30 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 14:19.34 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@213.139.60.79) |
| 14:19.47 | alterego | JJ_Bram: I run MeeGo on an N900 |
| 14:19.53 | DocScrutinizer | and N900-meego isn't really ready for primetime as I get it |
| 14:20.04 | alterego | No, definitely not prime time ready :) |
| 14:20.06 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 14:20.25 | JJ_Bram | alterego, you said the contacts lib was open source, does that mean it can be replaced? Is it just a framework or would I be able to make changes in it? |
| 14:20.33 | alterego | But tbh, meego-handset with all the FOSS stuff isn't really ready for primetime. The UX just isn't brilliant in the apps department yet. |
| 14:20.48 | alterego | JJ_Bram: no, because then the contacts app will not work. |
| 14:21.02 | alterego | Well, depending how contacts app is written. |
| 14:21.18 | alterego | We have the ability to add items into the contacts app menu bar though, which is useful for something like this .. |
| 14:21.22 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@j71044.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 14:21.30 | DocScrutinizer | probably you don't want to replace backend anyway |
| 14:21.34 | DocScrutinizer | rather frontend |
| 14:21.47 | alterego | Exactly, there's no point in replacing backend as it's all open anyway. |
| 14:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | and I hate the idea of a menu item for assigning a contact to a group |
| 14:22.32 | JJ_Bram | Well right now I need contact group functionality. So either I spend $40 a month and get internet access so I can use gvmax to send group messages from my google voice number or I find a way to get this working. lol |
| 14:23.00 | JJ_Bram | Why do you hate the idea of a menu item for assigning a contact to a group? |
| 14:23.00 | DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest you go with the 40$ |
| 14:23.20 | DocScrutinizer | because that's not how it is supposed to work |
| 14:23.28 | DocScrutinizer | it should be a normal field |
| 14:24.38 | DocScrutinizer | but the lack of ability to define new custom fields forbids a clean approach for that |
| 14:25.15 | alterego | tbh, I don't even like evolution |
| 14:25.24 | jonwil | ok, so I give up reverse engineering GPS then, its too hard |
| 14:25.34 | alterego | A contact database should have the ability to add as many fields with (types) as you want. |
| 14:25.51 | alterego | types should be string, enum, phone number etc. |
| 14:26.11 | alterego | Then we could do what ever we wanted :) |
| 14:27.32 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: ack |
| 14:27.54 | alterego | I'm almost tempted to write one. |
| 14:27.59 | alterego | A semantic contacts database. |
| 14:28.18 | DocScrutinizer | add to that list of generic types a "pim-object" |
| 14:28.54 | JJ_Bram | But then what the heck could we do with it? Would we ever be able to plug it into the basic telephone operations and make it functional? |
| 14:29.00 | DocScrutinizer | like it points to a calendar appointment, e.g for birthday |
| 14:29.05 | alterego | Yeah, then you could attach locations, groups, other contacts (family, friends, cool for facebook integration), calendar entries. |
| 14:29.15 | alterego | :) |
| 14:29.16 | JJ_Bram | (I suppose so given that we have command line ability to make calls etc) |
| 14:29.24 | jonwil | Unless someone wants to write a replacement for rtcom-messaging-ui and rtcom-call-ui, I dont think what you want is possible |
| 14:29.30 | jonwil | not plugging it into the UI |
| 14:29.31 | alterego | Imagine if your phone book had the information from facebook about your friends and your friends friends. |
| 14:30.10 | DocScrutinizer | calendar could have an object field containing a pointer to a contact, subtype phone, if you plan to call that person when the appointment is due |
| 14:31.05 | alterego | You could also, through google or exchange calendar, look at someones shared calendar, so when you attempt to ring them it'd say "Well, actually they're busy at the moment, would you like me to notify when they should be available?" |
| 14:31.09 | JJ_Bram | It might be time for me to bust out my QT interface designer again if you make that db... |
| 14:31.14 | DocScrutinizer | any number of contacts could point to a group contact object |
| 14:31.49 | alterego | Of course, it'd all be habtm, so any number of contacts could associate with any number of other objects. |
| 14:31.59 | JJ_Bram | habtm? |
| 14:32.11 | alterego | "has and belongs to many" it's a relational database term, sorry ;) |
| 14:33.17 | jonwil | ok, so the GPS is going nowhere unless someone with more skills appears or unless Nokia decides to share info. |
| 14:33.27 | DocScrutinizer | look at contacts app, menu. You see three radiobuttons: "ABC" "Status" "LRU" |
| 14:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | add to that arbitrary other filters, like for groups (contacts that have a certain object pointer) |
| 14:35.22 | alterego | Sure, and you can also use all the apps, like calendar, maps etc to link back to contacts. |
| 14:35.24 | DocScrutinizer | err s/LRU/MRU/ (or just RU) |
| 14:36.02 | alterego | So, you look at calendar, 2nd of the 2nd 2010, you see that you're going to the Cambridge MeeGo Network meetup, you see a list of other contacts that are going to the same event, and you can group sms them all. |
| 14:36.08 | alterego | Or group message them on facebook. |
| 14:36.13 | alterego | Or group email. |
| 14:36.15 | alterego | :) |
| 14:36.26 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:36.41 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 14:36.50 | JJ_Bram | Well, until you actually have enough motivation/time to build all that out I think I may have come up witha temporary solution for myself. We can already sync google contacts using the exchange sync, any chance that can bring in contact groups as a list of contacts in them? I can make a basic app that just displays the contact groups from google, allows you to enter an sms and then sends the sms via dbus and just loops through everyone. |
| 14:37.14 | JJ_Bram | Worse case this can be managed completely separately. |
| 14:37.25 | JJ_Bram | *worst |
| 14:37.26 | alterego | JJ_Bram: you'll probably have to do that yes. |
| 14:37.54 | JJ_Bram | All right, now all I need is a free weekend or two. |
| 14:38.18 | JJ_Bram | Is there any way to at least tap into the contacts db? |
| 14:38.20 | DocScrutinizer | JJ_Bram: there's no UI and no concept at all in contacts frontend for that. I'd not even see how it would import and display groups |
| 14:38.51 | alterego | JJ_Bram: you can talk to it directly through evolution or hte contacts lib. |
| 14:39.04 | JJ_Bram | DocScrutinizer, Yeah, I'm getting that. It'd have to be entirely separate. |
| 14:39.35 | JJ_Bram | So I could build a menu that lets you go through current contacts, select them, and add them to a group then? |
| 14:40.05 | alterego | Yes |
| 14:40.09 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 14:40.21 | alterego | But how would you know, afterwards, what groups a contact was in? |
| 14:40.24 | JJ_Bram | (groups being something like a flat file list of names/numbers for now witha title) |
| 14:40.29 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 14:41.13 | JJ_Bram | What's the easiest db to use here? I don't like the idea of a flat file db too much. |
| 14:41.24 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: as an extremely nasty botch you could add special comment fields to a contact |
| 14:41.38 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I suppose that'd work. |
| 14:41.47 | DocScrutinizer | or a "nickname" |
| 14:41.51 | alterego | Or you could cycle through ever avatar image and add your group icon to it :D |
| 14:41.59 | alterego | s/ever/every |
| 14:42.15 | JJ_Bram | I was just thinking click on the group name in the app and it gives a list of contacts in it. |
| 14:42.30 | JJ_Bram | You can only use/edit it from there anyway... |
| 14:42.32 | alterego | JJ_Bram: yeah, you should be able to do that in your own "groups" app |
| 14:42.41 | DocScrutinizer | I suggested the avatar img approach to barisione for his contact-ringtones |
| 14:42.42 | JJ_Bram | Right. |
| 14:43.14 | JJ_Bram | If I built this do you think people would want it? |
| 14:43.22 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 14:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | it's be nice anyway if it would base on contacts backend though |
| 14:43.54 | JJ_Bram | Alright, well then, I know what I'm doing when I get my phone back from nokia repair. |
| 14:44.20 | jonwil | hmmm, I know what I could reverse engineer. I could reverse engineer those bits of the WiFi stuff that are still closed source in meego (libwl1251, libppu, wl1251-cal) |
| 14:44.28 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@82.178.119.143) |
| 14:44.28 | ArGGu^^ | why I get error 'QValueSpaceSubscriber' was not declared in this scope. I have added all should be needed to .pro file and included the QValueSpaceSubscriber |
| 14:44.45 | alterego | Hah, just ordered something from vodafone.co.uk and the order number starts with "O2" |
| 14:44.50 | alterego | chuckles |
| 14:44.58 | DocScrutinizer | WTF?! those are closed in meEgo?! |
| 14:45.03 | jonwil | yes they are |
| 14:45.06 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@32.154.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:45.13 | jonwil | presumably because of TI NDA for wifi chip |
| 14:45.26 | jonwil | or FCC regs regarding wifi configs |
| 14:45.47 | jonwil | i.e. the need to have stuff in the CAL related to each individual device wifi chip |
| 14:45.52 | DocScrutinizer | nah, FCC is unlikely to interfere here |
| 14:46.10 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:46.42 | DocScrutinizer | LOL for the CAL shit |
| 14:47.11 | jonwil | maybe I will clone libcal whilst I am at it... |
| 14:47.20 | jonwil | libcal isnt majorly complex |
| 14:47.25 | jonwil | just closed for whatever Nokia reason |
| 14:47.32 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 14:47.50 | DocScrutinizer | though I heard it's been replaced by system-info or whatever |
| 14:47.59 | jonwil | on meego libcal still exists |
| 14:48.29 | jonwil | its used by that wifi daemon if nothing else |
| 14:48.35 | DocScrutinizer | probably still needed for bme :-P |
| 14:48.53 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: most certainly. |
| 14:48.56 | jonwil | bme isnt using libcal |
| 14:49.14 | DocScrutinizer | duh? |
| 14:49.41 | jonwil | oh wait it is |
| 14:49.42 | jonwil | my mistake |
| 14:49.48 | jonwil | I was looking at the wrong package |
| 14:50.22 | jonwil | so based on the current meego-closed-bins the only users there of libcal are bme and wl1251-cal |
| 14:50.38 | jonwil | some of the open stuff may also use it |
| 14:50.42 | jonwil | like dsme |
| 14:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | for historical reasons |
| 14:51.46 | jonwil | in any case I think cloning libcal, wl1251-cal, libppu and libwl1251 might be worth doing |
| 14:51.50 | jonwil | as they are all used on meego |
| 14:51.51 | jonwil | and all closed |
| 14:51.55 | DocScrutinizer | afaik dsme is just reading thermic profile from CAL |
| 14:52.33 | lxp1 | jonwil: i recently ported the netlink interface used by libwl1251/wl1251-cal to the wireless-testing wl1251 driver |
| 14:52.51 | DocScrutinizer | seems they had a thermo mgmt profile for certification purposes, and a normal one X-P |
| 14:53.07 | jonwil | so is cloning that set of packages worth it or not? |
| 14:53.14 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 14:53.41 | DocScrutinizer | you might want to chat with lxm(?) though |
| 14:53.52 | DocScrutinizer | lxp :-D |
| 14:54.03 | jonwil | lxp is? |
| 14:54.23 | lxp1 | < self-claimed wl1251 driver hacker |
| 14:54.23 | DocScrutinizer | ...a nice and nifty hacker |
| 14:54.30 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 14:54.56 | pupnik | heh lxp1 nice |
| 14:54.57 | lxp1 | i got monitor mode and packet injection working with wl1251 |
| 14:55.25 | DocScrutinizer | lxp1: how's battle going at the warez front? |
| 14:56.05 | jonwil | I think the goal should be to replace closed bins in MeeGo with open source clones wherever possible |
| 14:56.12 | jonwil | either by reverse engineering the closed bins |
| 14:56.19 | jonwil | or building something functionally equivilant |
| 14:57.14 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 14:57.22 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@32.154.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:58.09 | DocScrutinizer | yeah. given the fact those drivers of lxp1 are open source, I can't see why the libs are closed on meego |
| 14:58.43 | jonwil | probably those wl1251 bits are closed because they contain info thats under TI NDA |
| 14:59.07 | lxp1 | jonwil: i don't think so |
| 14:59.14 | pupnik | how is wl1251 reliability / speed working for you lxp1 ? |
| 14:59.59 | DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 |
| 15:00.11 | lxp1 | reliability is good for me, speed could be better, but i haven't tried optimizing it so far |
| 15:01.04 | DocScrutinizer | lxp1: may I ask how you managed to gather the required info/knowledge to implement that inj/moni modes? |
| 15:01.05 | lxp1 | jonwil: as far as i know wl1251-cal only does read the calibration data through libcal and loads it into firmware through the wl1251 netlink interface |
| 15:01.16 | javispedro | it's the CAL area format what Nokia wants to protect, for some reason. |
| 15:01.25 | lxp1 | DocScrutinizer: try and error |
| 15:01.31 | DocScrutinizer | respect |
| 15:01.50 | lxp1 | + reading some header files |
| 15:01.53 | jonwil | well cloning the relavent stuff shouldn't be rocket science |
| 15:02.11 | lxp1 | mostly already included in wl1251, but partly also from the tiwlan opensource driver |
| 15:02.21 | *** join/#maemo kwtm (~kwtm1@adsl-75-61-98-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:02.29 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: which is absolute braindead notion of them |
| 15:03.08 | javispedro | and probably already fully known by now, isn't it? :P |
| 15:03.10 | lxp1 | libwl1251 also implements some production line testing code |
| 15:03.22 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: prolly yes |
| 15:03.56 | DocScrutinizer | lxp1: heh |
| 15:04.48 | lxp1 | maybe libwl1251 also implements the wl1251 calibration data generation (which may be covered by TI NDA) |
| 15:07.05 | jonwil | only users of libwl2141 on Fremantle are wl2151-cal and testserver |
| 15:07.17 | jonwil | testserver being the production line test thing |
| 15:08.07 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-17-198.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 15:08.19 | lxp1 | yeah, i think testserver is used for calibration data generation and saving it to cal space |
| 15:08.50 | lxp1 | wl1251-cal then only loads the saved calibration data |
| 15:09.01 | jonwil | probably hence why testserver is closed and why a bunch of the stuff it uses (like libwl1251 |
| 15:09.03 | jonwil | is also closed |
| 15:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | and isn't it funny they ship this testserver with standard maemo image? |
| 15:12.17 | lxp1 | by the way, has already someone tried to use an external usb wlan card with the N900? |
| 15:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | umm, should |
| 15:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | I seem to recall somebody trying to build the needed drivers for his wlan-dongle |
| 15:13.31 | lxp1 | i am planning to package compat-wireless for kernel-power |
| 15:13.35 | alterego | I managed to build mine in scratchbox, haven't tested yet though. |
| 15:13.51 | alterego | I don't have a usb host capable kernel at the moment. |
| 15:14.02 | alterego | I guess now I have 2 N900s I can sacrifice one to it ;) |
| 15:14.03 | DocScrutinizer | lxp1: you mean h-e-n kernel? :-P |
| 15:14.18 | lxp1 | yeah |
| 15:14.23 | lxp1 | i haven't tested host mode at all |
| 15:14.38 | jonwil | why would you want to use an external wlan with n900? |
| 15:15.08 | DocScrutinizer | heh, we'Re developers, we don't test other shit - we test our own crap ;-D |
| 15:15.25 | lxp1 | maybe because the internal card is not powerful enough ;) |
| 15:15.27 | pupnik | oh really |
| 15:15.42 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 15:16.55 | DocScrutinizer | lxp1: for all that matters to your usecase anyway, h-e-n "just works" |
| 15:17.22 | DocScrutinizer | i.e. nothing h-e-n related to test there |
| 15:18.19 | lxp1 | that's good to hear |
| 15:19.23 | DocScrutinizer | well, on a second thought that's not entirely correct. There are limitations in badwidth mgmnt of USB, and isochronous mode, with h-e-n |
| 15:20.17 | DocScrutinizer | I don't think that's relevant to a WLAN dongle, but who knows |
| 15:20.20 | lxp1 | jonwil: i am just thinking about if the whole libwl1251/wl1251-cal stuff can be replaced by something else |
| 15:20.47 | lxp1 | because i am afraid the wl1251 netlink interface will not be accepted upstream |
| 15:21.00 | lxp1 | (linux kernel) |
| 15:21.07 | javispedro | lxp1: maybe it just reads reg/value pairs from cal and writes them to wl12xx =) |
| 15:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ why? |
| 15:21.29 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's a propietary driver "bypass"-like thing. |
| 15:21.40 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@32.154.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:22.01 | lxp1 | normally the calibration data file (wl1251-nvs) is read from disk |
| 15:22.16 | lxp1 | that's what is already implemented in the upstream driver |
| 15:22.54 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, should be easy enough to read out the calib data from CAL, maybe via strace, and write it to such a file |
| 15:23.05 | lxp1 | and the netlink interface is practically only used to push this nvs file into the driver |
| 15:23.25 | jonwil | in any case I think the best way is to clone these things (so we understand the format of the relavent data) and then we can figure out what we do with the clone later |
| 15:23.33 | jonwil | this will at least document the stuff in the CAL |
| 15:23.38 | *** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org) |
| 15:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | good point |
| 15:23.56 | lxp1 | yeah there is another odd thing, what was the main reason to port this netlink interface to wireless-testing |
| 15:23.56 | javispedro | "clone"? |
| 15:24.14 | DocScrutinizer | RE |
| 15:24.20 | lxp1 | the wl1251 driver generates a random mac address while loading |
| 15:24.31 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 15:24.33 | javispedro | and how does the upstream one get its mac? |
| 15:24.44 | lxp1 | it doesn't get it at all on the n900 |
| 15:24.50 | lxp1 | that's why i ported the netlink interface |
| 15:25.03 | lxp1 | the mac address is later set by wl1251-cal |
| 15:25.12 | lxp1 | which reads it from cal space |
| 15:25.15 | javispedro | yeah, but I ponder what's the upstreamy way |
| 15:25.23 | javispedro | ifconfig hwaddr .... |
| 15:25.24 | javispedro | ? |
| 15:25.28 | lxp1 | and wl1251-cal is called by wlancond |
| 15:25.59 | DocScrutinizer | let me guess.. closed as well |
| 15:26.00 | lxp1 | usually the mac address should be read by the driver from some eeprom |
| 15:26.08 | lxp1 | wlancond is open |
| 15:26.12 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: no, wlancond is open. |
| 15:26.33 | javispedro | it does little stuff though, even less since fremantle. |
| 15:26.47 | DocScrutinizer | well, CAL *is* a sortof eeprom ;-) |
| 15:27.17 | lxp1 | yeah, but how to read cal from a kernel driver? |
| 15:27.43 | javispedro | thinks that is a no go either. |
| 15:27.55 | DocScrutinizer | it's probably easy, but not feasible for Nokia as they'd need to open up the source then ;-D |
| 15:28.17 | alterego | Well, they can't open up cal |
| 15:28.27 | alterego | As it has all sorts of things that are there for security. |
| 15:28.33 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-17-198.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 15:28.49 | alterego | Isn't all the lock code stuff in CAL? |
| 15:28.52 | javispedro | also I guess it's shared with some symbian devices |
| 15:29.16 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, BS. And you can get rid of it by simply doing a >/dev/mtdblk3 or sth |
| 15:29.29 | javispedro | indeed =) |
| 15:29.49 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: actually lockcode is stored in CAL as well |
| 15:29.53 | jonwil | well a clone of libcal may be on my todo list... |
| 15:30.03 | jonwil | which would make that issue a moot point :P |
| 15:30.08 | javispedro | na |
| 15:30.18 | javispedro | cal is a record-structured storage area |
| 15:30.22 | javispedro | and libcal probably handles that |
| 15:30.32 | javispedro | how each record is structured is probably left to the individual callers |
| 15:30.37 | jonwil | yeah good point |
| 15:31.32 | *** join/#maemo dneary_ (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 15:32.09 | DocScrutinizer | and CAL is OS agnostic. The flasher tools used by service centers are the same for all Nokia phones - that's why a lot of stupid meaningless things are stored to it, to keep compatibility with SOP in service centers. See ALS calibration |
| 15:32.51 | javispedro | in fact, I kinda remember libcal got opened....... :S |
| 15:33.09 | DocScrutinizer | I still keep to suggest comaring CAL to uBoot's ENV |
| 15:33.14 | alterego | Are you saying it might be possible to unlock an N900 that has a lock code? |
| 15:33.30 | javispedro | hm.. |
| 15:33.37 | javispedro | but meego still considers it a blob so I guess it never happened... |
| 15:33.39 | javispedro | ( http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/non-oss/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ ) |
| 15:33.44 | javispedro | ^^^ list of blobs in meego btw |
| 15:33.48 | alterego | MeeGo doesn't handle lock codes :) |
| 15:33.54 | alterego | Yeah |
| 15:33.56 | javispedro | yeah I'm talking about libcal itself |
| 15:34.21 | alterego | I have that page being monitored for liblocation btw :) |
| 15:34.27 | javispedro | I'm quite sure It was once put as an example of something that got opened (libcal) |
| 15:34.31 | alterego | As it should be popping up quite soon :) |
| 15:34.35 | javispedro | looks it up.. |
| 15:34.53 | javispedro | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4874#c6 |
| 15:34.57 | povbot | Bug 4874: Publically document CAL config entries in /dev/mtd1 config area |
| 15:35.05 | javispedro | stskeeps you lier |
| 15:35.36 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 (lockcode) |
| 15:35.44 | alterego | Hah |
| 15:35.56 | javispedro | alterego: liblocation? why? I though gypsy was being touted as the replacement?? |
| 15:36.11 | alterego | javispedro: and on the N900 it has a liblocation backend. |
| 15:36.23 | javispedro | and they're opening the liblocation stack? |
| 15:36.26 | alterego | javispedro: for agps support, obviously |
| 15:36.29 | alterego | No |
| 15:36.31 | javispedro | ah |
| 15:36.34 | javispedro | ok |
| 15:36.38 | alterego | Hence why I'm waiting for it to be in that closed area. |
| 15:36.42 | javispedro | yes, another blob, that makes sense =) |
| 15:37.00 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: guess what's the value at that AES(?) key's location in a virgin N900! -- 12345! |
| 15:37.06 | alterego | javispedro: I don't know whether the intention is that the GPS in MeeGo N900 is to be open, we all want it to be, but it depends on the Nokia guys doing it. |
| 15:37.11 | DocScrutinizer | verbatim! |
| 15:37.27 | javispedro | alterego: It will never be open. Nokia has "strategic interest" in their location stuff. |
| 15:37.38 | alterego | javispedro: maybe .. |
| 15:37.46 | javispedro | they probably don't want us to know they send nearest Wi-Fi AP's BSSIDs along with geocoordinates every few seconds. |
| 15:37.47 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: that is brilliant. |
| 15:37.52 | javispedro | (like google does btw) |
| 15:38.06 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: so basically, lock_code is meaningless on the N900 now for us :) |
| 15:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | as soon as you teach 0xFFFF to alter arbitrary CAL records, yes |
| 15:39.22 | alterego | Well, once you've cracked the lock code, you can use it .. |
| 15:39.35 | alterego | We don't need to write it, can use the UI to write it once you've unlocked it. |
| 15:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, it's enough to read out arbitrary (or all) CAL records |
| 15:39.59 | javispedro | heh |
| 15:40.12 | javispedro | stupid, stupid. |
| 15:40.23 | DocScrutinizer | still you need a way to do that, via NOLO |
| 15:41.13 | jonwil | I think the most likely outcome re GPS would be for Nokia to document the phonet/isi messages for GPS, if anything. Anything sensitive or related to their "product differentiation" stuff would either be closed source in the cell modem or closed source in the userspace libs |
| 15:42.03 | alterego | jonwil: again, don't care about isi |
| 15:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 15:42.10 | alterego | Just need the navilink protocol |
| 15:42.19 | javispedro | hum |
| 15:42.23 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: eh? |
| 15:42.31 | javispedro | it would be useful for n8x0, but n900? cellmo probably abstracts it.. |
| 15:42.39 | alterego | Really? |
| 15:42.41 | alterego | Oh :/ |
| 15:42.42 | DocScrutinizer | you bet it does |
| 15:42.42 | jonwil | you cant talk to the GPS on the N900 except by sending the cellmo isi packets |
| 15:42.46 | javispedro | well, it might have a bypass mode =) |
| 15:42.53 | javispedro | (who knows...) |
| 15:42.56 | alterego | javispedro: that's what I was hoping. |
| 15:43.01 | jonwil | and no I doubt there is a way to directly talk to the GPS chip |
| 15:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro knows |
| 15:43.04 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 15:43.05 | alterego | Wait, so we have navilink protocol |
| 15:43.19 | javispedro | hum? |
| 15:43.29 | alterego | We just can't talk directly to the GPS serial port as the cellmo is in the way. |
| 15:43.33 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe jacekowski knows even better |
| 15:43.45 | alterego | Makes sense, for some reason I'd not actually considered that being what was going on :D |
| 15:43.55 | javispedro | well. |
| 15:43.57 | alterego | So we're talking lame Nokia GPS protocol. |
| 15:44.04 | javispedro | I'm not sure we have full navilink proto either. |
| 15:44.11 | alterego | When we reverse engineered that stuff on the wiki. |
| 15:44.28 | alterego | javispedro: I thought we were using the TI navilink based GPS chip? |
| 15:44.37 | javispedro | yes, but we don't know that proto either. |
| 15:44.46 | DocScrutinizer | the "datasheet" of the GPS chip doesn't mention navilink |
| 15:44.50 | SpeedEvil | alterego: I am unsure there is a 'standalone' GPS chip. |
| 15:45.04 | SpeedEvil | alterego: I suspect it's using the cellmo for a baseband processor. |
| 15:45.16 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: definitely |
| 15:45.21 | SpeedEvil | Snooping the I2C bus of the GPS in principle would confirm this |
| 15:45.26 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: oh, that's news for me :S. So it's not a TI chip? |
| 15:45.36 | alterego | I heard it was a TI chip |
| 15:45.38 | DocScrutinizer | err it is |
| 15:45.45 | alterego | I heard it was a Navilink 5350 |
| 15:45.48 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: I think it's something like http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3447 |
| 15:45.58 | SpeedEvil | which is a rather dumb RF front-end chip |
| 15:46.55 | SpeedEvil | That just gives a few mbps bitstream and lets the baseband do all the hard signal processing stuff, completley digitally |
| 15:47.31 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, I mixed navilink with NMEA |
| 15:48.00 | alterego | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS |
| 15:48.13 | DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12776&contentId=30978&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=Other+OT+navilink_5 |
| 15:48.14 | alterego | So, this says it's a TO GPS5030 navilink 5 |
| 15:48.14 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 15:48.20 | alterego | s/TO/TI |
| 15:49.13 | *** join/#maemo jaan (~frjana_kh@49.14.175.89) |
| 15:49.58 | javispedro | (you might want to look up "gpsdriver" in this channel's logs if you're interested in the N8x0 GPS stuff, also TI, connected via UART to SoC directly instead of cellmo) |
| 15:50.49 | javispedro | I don't remember anyone going very far though... gpsdriver on N8x0 was much more of a beast than the location stack on N900 seemingly. |
| 15:51.15 | *** part/#maemo jaan (~frjana_kh@49.14.175.89) |
| 15:51.51 | dm8tbr | javispedro: was it also a nl5350? |
| 15:52.11 | DocScrutinizer | >> Optimized to interface with TIâs 3G chipsets and OMAP⢠processors to deliver a complete solution for handset OEMs<< makes me think it's actually offloading calculation to baseband or APE |
| 15:52.30 | javispedro | dm8tbr: I don't remember =) |
| 15:53.10 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: Archos generation7 hardware has the nl5350 connected to UART1 of the OMAP34xx and there is a android gpsd |
| 15:53.18 | javispedro | iirc TI gps5xxx something =) |
| 15:53.34 | javispedro | dm8tbr: free? |
| 15:53.39 | dm8tbr | mwahaha |
| 15:53.43 | javispedro | :( |
| 15:53.48 | DocScrutinizer | plus the fact this N8x0 driver is (C) TI afaik, and a huge blob that seems to massively draw cpu cycles while GPSing |
| 15:54.01 | chx | softmodem of a sort? |
| 15:54.05 | dm8tbr | I mentioned already that TI officially said that everything will stay NDA |
| 15:54.18 | chx | ie as there is no cellmo to offload the processing to, it does it in software |
| 15:54.42 | dm8tbr | I could check the sysload on the archos when GPS is on |
| 15:55.32 | alterego | Okay, so what we really want is this crap Nokia GPS interface then. |
| 15:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | called ISI 0x59 |
| 15:55.54 | alterego | :) |
| 15:56.09 | alterego | Who wants to submit the bug on bugs.meego.com ? |
| 15:56.11 | DocScrutinizer | as jonwil mentioned some lines above |
| 15:56.35 | alterego | I think it'd be nice to have all of the GPS related messages to be honest ;) |
| 15:57.05 | dm8tbr | JFTR: 1643 1642 1000 S 720 0% 1% /usr/bin/nl5350-gpsd -u /dev/ttyS1 |
| 15:57.19 | dm8tbr | doesn't look like heavy CPU load |
| 15:57.31 | jonwil | well what we need is documentation for all the messages that can be sent to resource 0x54 (which is the GPS resource) |
| 15:57.37 | javispedro | dm8tbr: wait for lock |
| 15:57.45 | jonwil | the worst Nokia can do if we ask for it is to say no |
| 15:57.47 | dm8tbr | mkay, need to move to the window then |
| 15:57.48 | alterego | I still reckon there's probably a way to get phonet to allow you to talk directly to the serial though |
| 15:58.04 | javispedro | dm8tbr: either way, it was ~10% on N8x0, so on OMAP3 it might be indetectable :( |
| 15:58.21 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: nope - the worst is what they always do: say nothing, and close as wontfix after 9 months |
| 15:58.34 | jonwil | either way, it cant hurt to ask |
| 15:58.40 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:58.42 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: we have it open on MeeGo, we have it open opn Maemo, request on bugs.meego.com |
| 15:59.12 | alterego | And, everyone wants the GPS stuff to be open on meego N900 |
| 15:59.26 | alterego | The reason we're using liblocation et al is time and effort. |
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| 15:59.37 | alterego | If the specs were opened the community could work on it. |
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| 16:02.07 | jonwil | yeah if the isi/phonet interface for GPS was open, Nokia could retain any special "Secret sauce" they use to differentiate GPS apps (stuff in liblas etc) but community would get open GPS drivers on N900 |
| 16:02.12 | jonwil | open GPS daemon that is |
| 16:02.27 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: I tend to agree on that (bridge mode to GPS) - but probably Nokia isn't willing to disclose this |
| 16:02.52 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, no telling what we could do if we could reverse engineer something like that. |
| 16:03.06 | jonwil | didnt we say N900 contains limited GPS chip that offloads all the work to baseband cellmo? |
| 16:03.15 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: bridge mode inevitably would stop GPS for GSM stealth query |
| 16:03.25 | alterego | jonwil: yes, but we also said there's a software driver implementation :) |
| 16:03.40 | javispedro | (also closed and which might be hardware to ""clone"") |
| 16:03.43 | javispedro | *harder |
| 16:03.46 | RST38h | heya javispedro |
| 16:03.51 | javispedro | uh, double quotes dammit. |
| 16:03.57 | javispedro | morning RST38h |
| 16:04.34 | jonwil | I still think most likely outcome is that Nokia can be persuaded to document isi GPS packets as supported by N900 cellmo |
| 16:04.48 | jonwil | getting any lower level access than that is unlikely |
| 16:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | extremely unlikely |
| 16:05.18 | jonwil | and if we have the isi packets, we dont care about liblocation, liblas, location-proxy, location-daemon etc |
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| 16:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | sighs and mumbles "if only they'd also disclose how to get service monitor access via ISI" |
| 16:07.32 | DocScrutinizer | hell, we could build a BETTER liblocation or an equivalent service then |
| 16:07.49 | javispedro | dunno |
| 16:08.07 | DocScrutinizer | dunno what? |
| 16:08.15 | alterego | Dunno if we can be arsed ;) |
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| 16:09.04 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 16:09.18 | javispedro | and agps, and tower triangulation, .. :P |
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| 16:09.37 | DocScrutinizer | we could intergrate skyhook and GSM trangulation, even as plugins |
| 16:11.39 | jonwil | does the cellmo expose service monitor stuff via isi? |
| 16:11.55 | DocScrutinizer | probably yes |
| 16:12.22 | jonwil | so is someone going to file a meego bug asking for n900 cellmo GPS packet format? |
| 16:12.39 | alterego | jonwil: like I said, I'll ask on Thursday. |
| 16:12.43 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 16:12.47 | DocScrutinizer | iirc tekojo said the Nokia devels pondered to implement it into probably libisi, when I asked for it |
| 16:13.07 | alterego | What's skyhook? |
| 16:13.17 | jonwil | implementing stuff in libisi doesnt help us as libisi is closed |
| 16:13.19 | jonwil | and headers are closed |
| 16:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | the AP based think that whyPhone used |
| 16:13.35 | DocScrutinizer | thing |
| 16:14.12 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/ |
| 16:15.30 | javispedro | watches the n900 triple reboot out of a battery empty condition because I forgot to umount nfs |
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| 16:18.48 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: whatever it was a lib they pondered to augment to enable service monitor, it was a APE lib, so I guess the cellmo does support it |
| 16:19.00 | jonwil | ok |
| 16:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | but of course it's not documented I bet |
| 16:20.12 | jonwil | well the things they document appear to be |
| 16:20.14 | jonwil | SMS resource |
| 16:20.17 | DocScrutinizer | that's why my hopes are low for seeing SM even in ofono |
| 16:20.23 | jonwil | Supplementary Services resource |
| 16:20.29 | jonwil | Indication subscription messages |
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| 16:20.33 | jonwil | Circuit Switched Data |
| 16:20.37 | jonwil | General Packet Radio System server |
| 16:20.40 | jonwil | GSM Stack server |
| 16:20.44 | jonwil | Universal Integrated Circuit Card |
| 16:20.48 | jonwil | Modem AT server |
| 16:20.54 | jonwil | Modem LCS server |
| 16:20.57 | jonwil | Modem Test server |
| 16:21.00 | jonwil | Modem Non Volatile Data server |
| 16:21.05 | jonwil | RF control and tuning server |
| 16:21.08 | jonwil | Modem MCE server |
| 16:21.11 | jonwil | Modem Monitor server |
| 16:21.13 | DocScrutinizer | modem test server?? |
| 16:21.14 | jonwil | Modem Info Server |
| 16:21.18 | jonwil | Modem NET server |
| 16:21.21 | jonwil | Modem CALL server |
| 16:21.24 | jonwil | 3GPP GAN Protocol Stack server |
| 16:21.28 | jonwil | Pipe messages |
| 16:21.32 | jonwil | Common RF test server |
| 16:21.35 | jonwil | WCDMA RF test server |
| 16:21.38 | jonwil | GSM test server |
| 16:21.42 | RST38h | please stop |
| 16:21.45 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: you're rapidly approaching a +q |
| 16:21.50 | jonwil | ok sorry |
| 16:21.55 | alterego | chuckles |
| 16:22.05 | alterego | One line would have been enough |
| 16:22.09 | alterego | Or pastie :P |
| 16:22.24 | alterego | continues fiddling with his obs vm |
| 16:22.38 | DocScrutinizer | I'd like - really appreciate - to see this list on wiki |
| 16:23.34 | DocScrutinizer | Common RF test server - WTF! |
| 16:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | Modem monitor |
| 16:24.03 | jonwil | Thats just the list of resources as listed in the wireless modem API docs |
| 16:24.16 | jonwil | Can someone with a N900 run this command "dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_registration_status" and paste the results? |
| 16:25.45 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, restored a 2yo backup to my router, now all the N900 fixed IPs are gone :-P |
| 16:26.28 | jonwil | hmmm, wl1251-cal is more complex than I thought |
| 16:27.17 | alterego | jonwil: I would but I don't want you knowing my cellid :P |
| 16:27.32 | jonwil | well replace the cellid with all 0s then |
| 16:27.36 | jonwil | or something |
| 16:27.47 | alterego | tbh, I don't mind, hang on |
| 16:28.01 | alterego | Wait, mine is saying "The Feds are on to you, run!" |
| 16:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, cellid already all 0 ? |
| 16:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | i.e. an imsi catcher? |
| 16:29.02 | DocScrutinizer | encryption A0? |
| 16:29.05 | alterego | http://www.pastie.org/private/cfv21k0bh9u5x8lcsq0lw |
| 16:30.06 | jonwil | I think I shall document everything wl1251-cal reads from (e.g. dbus, cal) and let someone like lxp1 take that info and produce something for MeeGo (and for Maemo-cssu if its appropriate for that) |
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| 16:33.40 | MohammadAG | curses bouncer down time |
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| 16:51.51 | lxp | jonwil: yeah, i already looked up how request_firmware is working. i don't understand the entire system right now, but i think we could remove this nasty netlink interface and replace it with a new wl1251-cal and some udev rules |
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| 16:55.01 | jonwil | ok, from the looks of what wl1251-cal is doing, firstly it calls libwl1251_init in libwl1251 passing in the string "wlan0" |
| 16:55.09 | jonwil | it stores the result of this for later use |
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| 16:55.51 | jonwil | then it uses dbus to get the cell network country code (if possible) |
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| 16:56.16 | jonwil | if thats not possible, it grabs wlan-tx-cost3_0 from the CAL area, does something to it and sends it to libwl1251_nvs_push |
| 16:56.25 | jonwil | if it cant get the CAL area, it uses some kind of default |
| 16:56.48 | jonwil | not sure what nvs is |
| 16:57.32 | lxp | nvs is the calibration data |
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| 16:58.24 | lxp | you should also find a calibration data file with default values in /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin |
| 16:59.05 | lxp | i think wl1251-cal somewhere has to read a similar file from cal and push it to the driver |
| 16:59.31 | jonwil | well wl1251-cal is using default data stored inside wl1251-cal binary |
| 17:01.29 | lxp | hmm, that's odd i always thought this calibration data also contains some rf related stuff, which is only valid for exactly that chip and is generated during production |
| 17:04.20 | lxp | but as you describe it it looks like it's only purpose is to limit the available channels to the specific regulation domain |
| 17:05.08 | jonwil | maybe what happens is that the default data is special and is only used once before the cal is populated by the factory test thing |
| 17:06.38 | lxp | yeah that could be, then it would may be the same as in the /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin file |
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| 17:07.02 | korhojoa | hey guys |
| 17:07.24 | alterego | Aloha |
| 17:07.28 | korhojoa | is there a wiki page on the sqlite db format of the conversations stuff? |
| 17:07.48 | korhojoa | i'd like to insert my own 'messages' which have never been sent or whatever |
| 17:08.44 | korhojoa | like if there's something like a auth for a service that requires you to send a text to a number so it will reply with your id, even though it never changes, so that you can show it to the staff of some place |
| 17:09.00 | korhojoa | this way i'd save the price of a text message each time i use their service |
| 17:09.46 | jonwil | ok, yeah the default data inside wl1251-cal is the same as wl1251-nvs.bin |
| 17:10.30 | lxp | here is something ob nvs data: http://e2e.ti.com/support/dsp/omap_applications_processors/f/307/p/89217/308916.aspx |
| 17:10.45 | lxp | it is for the wl1271 chip, but i think it should be the same for the wl1251 chip |
| 17:11.12 | lxp | this thread basically says the nvs data contains tx calibration data, so that the correct output power is used |
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| 17:11.43 | korhojoa | this could also be a great prank device. insert message about thing y from person x and show to person z, "legit sms" |
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| 17:31.15 | jonwil | so yeah I am writing some notes on what wl1251-cal does, hopefyhllt someone (like lxp) can play with it and get something working |
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| 17:31.50 | jonwil | but yeah I think the reason wl1251-cal is closed is so that wifi chip is only sent correct settings for country its operating in |
| 17:31.56 | jonwil | and doesnt transmit on channels not allowed |
| 17:32.16 | jonwil | such closed daemons are common with some desktop wifi chips |
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| 17:42.08 | jacekowski | jonwil: all it's doing it's reading wlan-mac and wlan-tx-cost3_0 |
| 17:42.38 | jonwil | its doing more than that as my wiki entry will soon show :) |
| 17:43.01 | jacekowski | and it is sending it to interface |
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| 17:47.16 | jacekowski | nothing else in there |
| 17:47.25 | jacekowski | just straight read from cal and push to interface |
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| 17:48.58 | jonwil | trust me, its doing more with the country code stuff related to whether its US or EU (at least the version I am looking at from the meego non-oss repo) |
| 17:49.08 | alterego | 350 packages left to download .. |
| 17:49.27 | jacekowski | trust me |
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| 17:50.38 | jacekowski | it goes to same function in the end |
| 17:51.33 | jacekowski | .text:0000933C BL libwl1251_nvs_push |
| 17:51.39 | jacekowski | that's only call to that function |
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| 17:52.02 | jacekowski | and it's called straight after data is read from CAL |
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| 17:52.20 | jacekowski | .text:000092F8 BL read_cal |
| 17:52.20 | jacekowski | .text:000092FC CMP R0, #0 |
| 17:52.20 | jacekowski | .text:00009300 BLT loc_9634 |
| 17:52.50 | jonwil | not in the binary I havde |
| 17:52.56 | jonwil | 00009354 BL libwl1251_nvs_push |
| 17:53.00 | jonwil | different address |
| 17:53.18 | jacekowski | i have one from pr1.3 |
| 17:53.41 | jacekowski | with global firmware |
| 17:56.06 | jonwil | well this from the meego non-oss repos |
| 17:56.12 | jonwil | which is where the interest is |
| 17:56.13 | pupnik | woo srrmblr |
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| 18:00.42 | alterego | Oooo, top gear tonight |
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| 18:06.15 | jacekowski | alterego: what time? |
| 18:06.16 | GAN900 | has been working through the back catalog on Netflix. |
| 18:06.31 | alterego | 8pm UTC |
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| 18:19.25 | jonwil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Wl1251-cal |
| 18:19.43 | jonwil | brain dump for what wl1251-cal on meego non-oss is actually doing |
| 18:19.57 | jonwil | or appears to be doing |
| 18:21.15 | alterego | bbl |
| 18:21.26 | jonwil | Seems to be setting grabbing the nvs data and changing it based on whether its FCC or not FCC |
| 18:21.39 | jonwil | then it sets mac address |
| 18:22.09 | jonwil | then setting either EU or US as appropriate |
| 18:22.34 | jonwil | should be enough info to let someone come up with an open (and preferably in-kernel if possible |
| 18:22.35 | psycho_oreos | yeah that's mac80211 framework |
| 18:22.44 | jonwil | solution for wl1251-cal |
| 18:22.48 | jonwil | on meego at least |
| 18:22.59 | jonwil | if anyone has questions, just let me know |
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| 18:30.39 | Failure-Peltonen | Hi |
| 18:30.47 | Failure-Peltonen | I may have asked this before |
| 18:31.06 | Failure-Peltonen | but is it possible to disable smileys on N900? Getting annyoed with tose. |
| 18:31.17 | Failure-Peltonen | i mean smileys on converstations. |
| 18:33.35 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:33.40 | SpeedEvil | I forget where |
| 18:33.45 | SpeedEvil | It's in settings, I think |
| 18:35.50 | Failure-Peltonen | SpeedEvil: Well i self havnt figured it out where.. |
| 18:36.29 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I've had a look, and can't find it anywhere |
| 18:38.46 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/disabling-smiley-icons-in-conversations-pr1-2/ |
| 18:40.30 | jaska | that doesnt show the whole posting for some reason |
| 18:40.33 | Failure-Peltonen | DocScrutinizer: Thanks of the link, but i cant see any "read more" thing and it ends with ... |
| 18:40.34 | jaska | mileys by default, yet [...] |
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| 18:40.47 | DocScrutinizer | me neither :-/ |
| 18:41.26 | SpeedEvil | http://blog.dawid.lorenz.co/2010/05/disabling-smiley-icons-in-conversations_171.html |
| 18:41.37 | SpeedEvil | All you have to do is edit /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/smilies/user/default.def file and remove all lines under [Smilies] section. Same might be applied to /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/smilies/service/skype.def (or basically any *.def file within those directories). The next step is reboot and you have graphical-simley-less device in your hand. Hell yeah! |
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| 18:50.49 | Failure-Peltonen | SpeedEvil: Okay. Better would be just a Disable smileys [X] thing in settings but ill do this. i hate em so much =D |
| 18:51.56 | Failure-Peltonen | SpeedEvil: have to ask, if i do edit that, and then i type ":)" will it be in text or empty? |
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| 18:59.59 | lardman | evening all |
| 19:00.05 | lardman | any SQL gurus about| |
| 19:00.07 | lardman | ? |
| 19:00.13 | lardman | ~lart laptop kb |
| 19:00.13 | infobot | smacks laptop kb up side the head with a clue-by-4 |
| 19:00.40 | alterego | lardman: What are you wanting to di? |
| 19:00.42 | alterego | do .. |
| 19:01.44 | lardman | slightly random, have done some website scraping to get houseprice data and am now writing a app to combine the data for analysis |
| 19:02.02 | lardman | so I want to be able to retrieve records for variable numbers of postcodes |
| 19:02.15 | lardman | and am just wondering how to combine the select query |
| 19:03.05 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@adsl-93-51-137.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:03.20 | lardman | so whether to do separate select for each postcode, and somehow combine (union?) or to do an almighty set of and's in the select statement |
| 19:03.31 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:03.33 | lardman | s/and/or |
| 19:04.00 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:04.09 | lardman | I can do it all in MATLAB, but would prefer to have something more portable, and Octave is rather too slow |
| 19:04.34 | lardman | not helped by not having sufficient memory for all the data |
| 19:04.42 | alterego | Well, I'd imagine a signle sql query will be quicker |
| 19:06.24 | lardman | can I perform calcs in a query? e.g. I have lat lon data for each property, and might want all properties within 100m of my current lat lon? |
| 19:07.01 | lardman | but then I need to calculate the sqrt of the square of the difference between my lat lon and each record's lat lon value |
| 19:07.26 | SpeedEvil | Not really, if you only care about approx. |
| 19:07.43 | lardman | this is the trouble with porting from a quad core machine w/ 8Gb RAM to an N900 ;) |
| 19:07.43 | SpeedEvil | abs(latdiff)+abs(longdiff)<200 |
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| 19:08.02 | lardman | yeah, but can that be part of the query? |
| 19:08.08 | SpeedEvil | No clue |
| 19:08.17 | lardman | I'll have to do some looking |
| 19:08.22 | SpeedEvil | I learned all I know of SQL from a dog named Sue. |
| 19:08.42 | trx | part of sql query? |
| 19:08.48 | *** join/#maemo lmoura_ (~lauromour@186.212.159.235) |
| 19:08.54 | trx | i believe so, it can be |
| 19:09.08 | lardman | I learned it for a stock control app I wrote many years ago, but has been a while and didn't need to combine queries, etc then |
| 19:09.17 | trx | dont know about exact function names rho.. |
| 19:09.25 | trx | tho* |
| 19:09.38 | lardman | trx: ok, I'll do some digging then |
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| 19:12.32 | SpeedEvil | lardman: http://qkwv.com/tmp/barcodes - all barcodes of stuff sold by tesco - ripped from http://www.techfortesco.com/tescoapiweb/terms.htm |
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| 19:12.58 | SpeedEvil | I'm currently trying to do something that will do a sort-by-calorie. |
| 19:13.11 | SpeedEvil | price/calorie |
| 19:13.14 | SpeedEvil | For amusement. |
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| 19:14.43 | lardman | SpeedEvil: cool |
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| 19:15.57 | lardman | presumably one can query their db directly? |
| 19:16.15 | lardman | Otherwise I could of course grab your page and keep it as a local db |
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| 19:16.29 | lardman | as that's what I've spent all weekend doing with house prices |
| 19:17.28 | lardman | SpeedEvil: you know you can get the barcode data via DBus broadcast from mBarcode? |
| 19:17.53 | SpeedEvil | lardman: Do you have a link? |
| 19:18.18 | SpeedEvil | lardman: yes - you sign up for a developer key - and it's a really simple REST query for the barcode to return the product |
| 19:18.23 | lardman | not really, I need to create some docs |
| 19:18.27 | lardman | cool |
| 19:18.37 | lardman | hang on, let me look at the code to tell you the dbus message |
| 19:19.11 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 19:19.39 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/61272362.json is the result you get back from a search |
| 19:20.29 | lardman | QDBusMessage message = QDBusMessage::createSignal(QString("org.maemo.mbarcode"), QString("org.maemo.mbarcode"), QString("BarcodeDecoded")); is the message sent by mBarcode, with a type and data arguments, both strings |
| 19:20.30 | SpeedEvil | Thanks! |
| 19:20.37 | SpeedEvil | Great. |
| 19:21.15 | lardman | give me a shout if you have any troubles, etc and I'll do fixing |
| 19:21.30 | lardman | will have a look at the Tesco stuff and write a quick Python plugin to test the api |
| 19:21.37 | lardman | so thanks for the pointers :) |
| 19:22.33 | lardman | amazing how I've managed to spend all weekend not achieving much, really frustrating starting to write an app :( |
| 19:22.39 | alterego | lardman: I want that :) |
| 19:22.43 | SpeedEvil | lardman: Do you need to go from postcode-> lat/lon? |
| 19:22.58 | lardman | SpeedEvil: yeah, I've got a db from online |
| 19:23.02 | lardman | looks for url |
| 19:23.09 | RST38h | what app? |
| 19:23.12 | alterego | I want tesco bar code support as I pretty much exclusively purchase from Tesco :) |
| 19:23.19 | *** join/#maemo xnt14____ (d0362d3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.45.59) |
| 19:23.21 | lardman | http://www.npemap.org.uk/data/ |
| 19:23.43 | lardman | alterego: could I persuade you to write a Python plugin for mBarcode then...? ;) |
| 19:24.06 | xnt14____ | If any of you guys see MohammadAG, can you tell him to email me? |
| 19:24.10 | alterego | lardman: maybe :& |
| 19:24.18 | lardman | alterego: :D |
| 19:24.22 | alterego | That was meant to be :) |
| 19:24.43 | RST38h | xnt14: how many underscores should he add to your nick when writing to you? =) |
| 19:24.58 | lardman | ok :) well I guess if you're familiar with the apis it should be a 10min job really |
| 19:25.19 | lardman | RST38h: *snigger* |
| 19:25.35 | xnt14____ | RST38h: sorry, I'm in NYC atm, Tethering with N900. freenode doesn't let T-Mobile 3G users on, so I'm using webchat and was too lazy to auth to services |
| 19:26.00 | SpeedEvil | alterego: http://www.techfortesco.com/forum/index.php - hit the API docs |
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| 19:27.10 | xnt14[laptop] | I have to go now... RST38h, I would appreciate it if you told him if/when you see him. :) |
| 19:27.10 | alterego | SpeedEvil: thanks |
| 19:27.20 | b-man | pokes xnt14[laptop] with a long stick |
| 19:27.29 | b-man | damn! xD |
| 19:28.33 | lardman | had better fix the python plugin for the new mBarcode api |
| 19:29.26 | Tsuyo | Is there a way to record the N900 screen? |
| 19:29.31 | RST38h | yes. |
| 19:29.36 | lardman | shift-ctrl-p? |
| 19:29.44 | lardman | or -s? |
| 19:29.48 | lardman | or something iirc |
| 19:29.58 | SpeedEvil | Insert video out plug, and connect to VCR |
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| 19:31.04 | Tsuyo | well shift-ctrl-p just creates a screenshot. I want to make a small Video directly, without the video cable |
| 19:31.18 | alterego | Tsuyo: no, unfortunately not. |
| 19:31.33 | SpeedEvil | the cpu-applet thing does that I think? |
| 19:31.37 | SpeedEvil | Never used it |
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| 19:31.55 | lardman | Tsuyo: though afaicr you should be able to create a gst pipeline which grabs the fb output |
| 19:31.59 | chx | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32562 |
| 19:32.23 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/load-applet/ |
| 19:32.35 | Tsuyo | Thanks :p |
| 19:32.58 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: SQL query? sure you can use all sorts of equations and functions there |
| 19:33.15 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: any pointers? |
| 19:33.27 | lardman | using QtSql |
| 19:33.31 | DocScrutinizer | not really, too trivial |
| 19:33.42 | lardman | humour me! :p |
| 19:33.48 | lardman | :) |
| 19:34.19 | lardman | so you can embed an equation to be evaluated in the query? |
| 19:34.34 | chx | reading that thread x11vnc works beter than load-applet |
| 19:35.12 | lardman | e.g. (current_lat - record_lat)^2 + (current_lon - record_lon)^2 <= radius_squared ? |
| 19:35.36 | DocScrutinizer | select sqrt(lat**2 + lon**2) as dist from bla where (dist < 200) |
| 19:36.01 | lardman | ah, cool, so I can define temp vars in the query |
| 19:36.15 | *** join/#maemo Sickki (sickki@unaffiliated/sickki) |
| 19:36.17 | RST38h | not temp vars, but names, yes |
| 19:36.54 | RST38h | and do not expect this query to be fast |
| 19:36.58 | lardman | so can I insert a fixed value into the above? |
| 19:38.15 | lardman | probably no slower than performing the same calc in the C++ code after the values are returned though I guess |
| 19:39.19 | RST38h | that is not the reason |
| 19:39.57 | RST38h | having a weird selection condition like that will most likely prevent the server from using indices |
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| 19:40.28 | lardman | unfortunately all of the queries will be formed like that |
| 19:41.11 | lardman | an alternative is to use rough boxing in the select query, then perform the accurate stuff once the records are returned |
| 19:41.43 | RST38h | Yes, having an inner select like that will most likely help things |
| 19:42.26 | lardman | ok, but perform a select on the return of the first select? |
| 19:42.38 | lardman | or do that in C++ on the returned data? |
| 19:42.53 | lardman | the former I guess |
| 19:42.58 | lardman | makes using the data easier |
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| 19:45.47 | lardman | going back to DocScrutinizer's suggestion, while that will give me the distance from (0,0), how do I find the distance from (my_lat, my_lon)? |
| 19:48.29 | piggz | what is the deal with this flash 10.1 for maemo someone just tweeted? http://www.renegade-uiq.com/adobe-flash-10.1-maemo5.tar.gz.torrent |
| 19:50.30 | lardman | I'd hazard a guess that it's rubbish |
| 19:51.10 | wmarone | or it's that TI released thing repackaged |
| 19:51.50 | lardman | I'd expect to hear about that somewhere other than a torrent though...? |
| 19:52.05 | piggz | lardman: or twitter ;) |
| 19:52.16 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:52.19 | piggz | this is the guys site http://www.renegade-uiq.com/ |
| 19:52.35 | piggz | seems he's pro-maemo |
| 19:53.11 | lardman | hmm, dunno then, give it a go |
| 19:53.16 | lardman | but be careful |
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| 19:53.53 | piggz | im not installing it just yet...i just got my n900 back and want to see how long it stays up to make sure its fixed |
| 19:54.02 | piggz | i am seeding no tho |
| 19:54.06 | piggz | s/now |
| 19:54.26 | lardman | what's in the torrent? |
| 19:54.40 | piggz | my uptime is now ~3 days...almost a best! |
| 19:54.45 | piggz | looking |
| 19:55.13 | piggz | a libflashplayer.so and a readme |
| 19:56.05 | lardman | hmm, well you never know |
| 19:56.06 | piggz | the readme doesnt contain much http://pastebin.com/6T90Xick |
| 19:56.52 | lardman | doesn't need much really |
| 19:57.17 | lardman | should be fairly straight forward to wrap the released version, if so, good on who ever did it |
| 19:57.34 | piggz | the string ti occurs quite a lot in the 'strings' output |
| 19:57.41 | piggz | so i guess its that version |
| 19:57.48 | alterego | It's not optimized though is it .. |
| 19:58.19 | alterego | And doesn't have msgx optimization. |
| 19:58.27 | alterego | .. sgx .. |
| 19:58.28 | lardman | dunno, what was the original target? OMAP4 unaccelerated? |
| 19:59.31 | alterego | No idea :) |
| 19:59.56 | jacekowski | piggz: it's useless |
| 20:00.09 | jacekowski | piggz: no acceleration |
| 20:00.12 | piggz | ah well, nevermind |
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| 20:00.18 | chx | yes OMAP4 |
| 20:00.44 | chx | whether there is more i do not know but the original news was about omap4 ti flash |
| 20:01.09 | lardman | interesting that it was unaccelerated though |
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| 20:03.25 | alterego | top gear :) |
| 20:03.39 | alterego | idles |
| 20:03.49 | lardman | is recording, stuck with Candleford .... :( |
| 20:03.56 | *** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5d84868e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:04.31 | eichi | is there an easy way, to make some kind of "beep" on n900 with terminal in maemo5? i want something like command && beep |
| 20:04.33 | SpeedEvil | imagines that being Clarksons theme. |
| 20:04.38 | SpeedEvil | Candle + ford |
| 20:05.17 | lardman | I would prefer to see burning cars than this twaddle, but no, bbc ch1 Candleford |
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| 20:06.31 | alterego | wants that transit |
| 20:07.20 | lardman | last time I drive a van it was quite nice and relaxing, high up and not very fast, all good |
| 20:07.20 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B496F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:07.33 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 20:07.33 | lardman | but always better to have something quick :) |
| 20:07.38 | lardman | hey lcuk |
| 20:08.04 | lcuk | hi lardman \o |
| 20:08.31 | lardman | lcuk: how's things? |
| 20:08.52 | lcuk | bloody tired! |
| 20:09.04 | lcuk | got back from bowling just before and its wiped me out |
| 20:09.11 | lardman | :D |
| 20:09.35 | lardman | all that mental calculation working out the exact scores to achieve? |
| 20:09.50 | *** join/#maemo n900-space (~net@119.73.37.240) |
| 20:09.52 | lcuk | yeah! |
| 20:09.54 | n900-space | \o |
| 20:09.55 | lardman | or the beer (/me finds that more tiring) |
| 20:09.59 | lardman | :) |
| 20:10.53 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 20:11.43 | eichi | hello. is there some easy notofication with terminal like a "beep" or a "led" light or vibration i can use for something like "command && beep|vibrate|led_flash" ??? |
| 20:11.59 | lardman | though one must keep a certain pintage to maintain good aim, hard to achieve that mind you |
| 20:13.29 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 20:14.12 | lcuk | lardman, I was practicing my aim last night, playing carrom |
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| 20:15.16 | lardman | never played that, table-football like in terms of flicking things? |
| 20:15.34 | lardman | in the 2p-style of table football that is |
| 20:15.59 | lardman | also remembers table rugby and taking conversions kicking 2p pieces, ouch! |
| 20:16.24 | DocScrutinizer | eichi: xkbbeep does NOT work, I wonder what for they ship that useless cruft. playsound some.wav though will do |
| 20:16.50 | *** join/#maemo Sickki (sickki@unaffiliated/sickki) |
| 20:16.55 | lcuk | lol lardman |
| 20:18.24 | *** join/#maemo linuxplatform (~centoslin@153-129-232.connect.netcom.no) |
| 20:19.12 | DocScrutinizer | eichi: make that ``play-sound some.wav'' |
| 20:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | (and xkbbell :-P) |
| 20:20.10 | DocScrutinizer | (still useless) |
| 20:20.15 | piggz | damn, im missing top gear...just aswell my blu0-ray has iplayer! |
| 20:27.41 | korhojoa | what? there's an episode of top gear going on right now? |
| 20:27.58 | ^24seven | yup :P |
| 20:29.19 | DocScrutinizer | wonders what kind of environment would be needed to put xkbbell to some purpose |
| 20:29.57 | DocScrutinizer | ...on N900. bootmenu? framebuffer console? A better xterm? |
| 20:31.13 | *** join/#maemo merlin_1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 20:31.32 | lardman | is to do with X isn't it? |
| 20:31.33 | korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: a framebuffer console with a rotating opengl cube in the background |
| 20:31.43 | korhojoa | just because you can |
| 20:32.06 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: hook it up with maemo notifications and it'd be nice for screen monitoring and irssi |
| 20:32.35 | chx | eichi: http://www.orient-lodge.com/node/3942 |
| 20:32.52 | alterego | gnu scree that is |
| 20:32.54 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: eh? I can't see how that dysfunct cruft is going to be useful |
| 20:33.27 | chx | eichi: http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/n900-im-style-notifications-from-python/ vibration |
| 20:33.59 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: there have been many times I'd like screen to notify me that something has happened, through vibra, flashing led pattern and notification sound. |
| 20:34.16 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: well it has a leading x. NFC if that means it's meant to put bell to work despite of x, or whether it needs x to work at all |
| 20:34.53 | lardman | oh, I thought it was the server that was supposed to produce the noise |
| 20:35.00 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: well, how's that related to a dysfunctional executable shipping with stock fremantle? |
| 20:37.04 | DocScrutinizer | I just wonder if it's another few bytes to waste our precious rootfs space, or there'S actually some potential usecase for this |
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| 20:37.57 | alterego | Oh, I thought you were talking about using bell :) |
| 20:38.05 | *** part/#maemo balleyne (~balleyne@CPE00c0a8c55af0-CM000f21200d28.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:38.12 | DocScrutinizer | my uneducated guess this very moment is: ~30% of rootfs are useless cruft and litter |
| 20:38.13 | alterego | I'd imagine it's part of the core x package. |
| 20:38.32 | DocScrutinizer | x11-xkb-utils |
| 20:38.45 | alterego | 30% seems a bit steep, but I'm sure there is a fair amount. |
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| 20:42.12 | DocScrutinizer | 154.9M /usr/lib (du -hx) :-P |
| 20:43.13 | DocScrutinizer | it's really depressing how Nokia distro maintainers completely missed the point of /usr |
| 20:44.29 | DocScrutinizer | you'd think they never had any education about how a *nix OS is built |
| 20:46.34 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:47.29 | RST38h | Doc: education would not help them on their way to corporate goals! |
| 20:47.39 | RST38h | tries to parse what he has just written, fails. |
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| 20:57.59 | luke-jr | RST38h: I understood it, the third time reading. |
| 20:58.50 | *** join/#maemo oRETNUHo (~Owner@97-121-111-104.omah.qwest.net) |
| 21:01.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | grammatically it looks lke a pretty normal sentence to me |
| 21:02.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm no native speaker though |
| 21:03.29 | chx | DocScrutinizer51: is this a hint at Area 51, the RX-51 device or a clever trick of both? |
| 21:04.19 | *** join/#maemo Bash1 (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:04.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's the bit width of my wetware address bus |
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| 21:05.24 | chx | LOL! |
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| 21:09.25 | *** join/#maemo Toxaris_on_mobil (~user@host-95-192-92-75.mobileonline.telia.com) |
| 21:09.59 | Toxaris_on_mobil | hello |
| 21:10.08 | Toxaris_on_mobil | how can i restart modest? |
| 21:10.19 | Proteous | we don't want any, go away |
| 21:10.21 | Proteous | oh wait |
| 21:10.27 | Proteous | you aren't selling anything? |
| 21:10.39 | Toxaris_on_mobil | nop |
| 21:10.41 | Proteous | :P |
| 21:11.08 | Toxaris_on_mobil | modest sometimes crash and i recive no emails |
| 21:11.24 | Toxaris_on_mobil | if i restart my n900 it works again |
| 21:12.03 | Sc0rpius | wow |
| 21:12.03 | Toxaris_on_mobil | so I wounder if i can simply restart modest to get ir work again |
| 21:12.08 | Sc0rpius | first time I heard that |
| 21:12.13 | Proteous | ... |
| 21:12.26 | Sc0rpius | did you try kill -SIGHUP modest |
| 21:12.30 | Sc0rpius | modest PID of course |
| 21:12.36 | Toxaris_on_mobil | yes its quite strange, happens once a week or some thing like that |
| 21:13.17 | Toxaris_on_mobil | yes I typed "kill -9 <modest PID> |
| 21:13.17 | Sc0rpius | sojething like |
| 21:13.18 | Sc0rpius | something like |
| 21:13.29 | Sc0rpius | ps aux | grep modest | grep -v grep | awk ' { print $1 } ' | xargs kill -SIGHUP |
| 21:13.35 | Sc0rpius | (yeah I'm lazy) |
| 21:13.48 | Sc0rpius | but anyway, my modest has never ever crashed |
| 21:14.15 | Toxaris_on_mobil | do you use exchange? |
| 21:14.22 | Sc0rpius | no, not me |
| 21:14.27 | Sc0rpius | just two IMAP accounts configured on it |
| 21:14.36 | Toxaris_on_mobil | ahh, ok |
| 21:14.49 | *** part/#maemo oRETNUHo (~Owner@97-121-111-104.omah.qwest.net) |
| 21:14.55 | Proteous | I have my n900 connected to an exchange account |
| 21:15.03 | Proteous | haven't had any email client crashes |
| 21:15.04 | Toxaris_on_mobil | I think its something with mail for exchange that messup modest |
| 21:15.18 | Proteous | but I don't get a ton of mail on that account |
| 21:18.04 | Toxaris_on_mobil | well, I did the ps aux | grep modest | grep -v grep | awk ' { print $1 } ' | xargs kill -SIGHUP" and I get a yellow line saying something like Internal error email closed |
| 21:18.11 | Toxaris_on_mobil | but it didt work |
| 21:18.16 | Toxaris_on_mobil | strange |
| 21:20.39 | Toxaris_on_mobil | hmm, in exchange status it says "Idle" and not connected as usual |
| 21:21.06 | Toxaris_on_mobil | maybe its the syncengine that needs to be restarted |
| 21:21.12 | GAN900 | Toxaris_on_mobil, killall modest works fine. |
| 21:21.22 | GAN900 | Oh, yeah, Exchange. |
| 21:21.29 | GAN900 | Have fun with that. ;) |
| 21:21.33 | Toxaris_on_mobil | :) |
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| 21:24.02 | Toxaris_on_mobil | maybe I have to leave it by reboot the phone :( |
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| 22:19.35 | alterego | wonders where the qt dbg packages are |
| 22:20.28 | Venemo | alterego: sdk repo? |
| 22:20.36 | alterego | Hrm, yeah possibly. |
| 22:21.11 | alterego | Ah yes, there it is. |
| 22:23.22 | alterego | This should make things much easier. |
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| 22:28.16 | alterego | Hah, that ejection seat move in die hard 2 is brilliant |
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| 22:37.43 | alterego | Is it possible to install the dbg stuff to opt? |
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| 22:49.31 | Loveable_rouge | how does this work ! |
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