IRC log for #maemo on 20110125

00:03.40wjtbuh. well. restarting helped. which is not really good news :D
00:04.20franz_hildon-desktop is crazy like that
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00:05.17wjtyeah, but this is unsatisfactory because I don't know what I did right :D
00:05.49Proteousheh
00:06.20lcukwjt, this bug has been cycled around Maemo for a long time.  The Fremantle AF team attempted numerous fixes and every time a new kitten popped out of a hole.  congratulations on your new kitten :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4
00:07.29MrBawbwjt: I think the current workaround is to run "touch /usr/share/icons/hicolor" after installing a new icon
00:08.01MrBawbor reboot, of course
00:09.17wjtwell. let's tidy up all the stuff i've been poking at and feed this package to the autobuilder and come back to this another day :)
00:09.32wjtone Fosdem schedule coming up!
00:10.34lcuk\o/
00:12.17Gh0styhmm anyone can help a bit with some python stuff? :/
00:12.31Gh0stywant to put in a python script the following:
00:13.50wjtMrBawb, franz_, lcuk, Robot101: cheers :)
00:13.51MohammadAGlcuk, would've been more fun if those kittens weren't real o_O
00:14.17lcukMohammadAG, pssh
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00:14.35Gh0stygconftool -s -t bool /system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_autolock_enabled false
00:14.39MohammadAGlcuk, what? the way I'd be playing that would be animal cruelty
00:14.48Gh0stybut I see there is already a gconf module inside the python script
00:14.54Gh0styso I was trying this:
00:15.11Gh0styc = gconf.client_get_default()
00:15.30pupnikno kittens were hurt in filming Whack-a-Kitty, MohammadAG
00:15.38Gh0styc.set_value('c = gconf.client_get_default()
00:15.42Gh0stygrmz
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00:16.02Gh0styc.set_value('/system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_autolock_enabled', false)
00:16.04Gh0styrather
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00:16.11Gh0stybut that does not seem to work either :x
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00:17.21MrBawbGh0sty: you probably want to use set_bool instead of set_value
00:17.35Gh0styaah there is a set_bool :P
00:17.38Gh0stylemme try
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00:18.55alteregocontemplates tolerance in Columbus
00:19.18alteregocontemplates bed.
00:19.49MohammadAGcontemplates stabbing tracker
00:20.04MohammadAGnight alterego
00:20.15alteregoHah
00:20.28Gh0styhmm still no go :x
00:20.44Gh0styunless it does not know at that point anymore about c ...
00:20.46Gh0stylets try that :p
00:21.53MrBawboh, is it giving you: "NameError: name 'false' is not defined"?
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00:22.02MrBawbI think the python name is "False"
00:22.31MrBawb>>> c.set_bool("/system/iamarobot",True)
00:22.34MrBawb$ gconftool-2 -g /system/iamarobot
00:22.35MrBawbtrue
00:24.44Gh0styno i think rather that my c is not in scope at that particular point
00:24.53MrBawbah
00:24.55Gh0stythe c is created long before I want to use it
00:25.01Gh0stylemme check that
00:25.11Gh0styand cant execute the script cause its on toggle event :P
00:25.22Gh0stycan just see the result is changed or not ... :P
00:25.27Gh0styand it does not change for the moment :)
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00:26.23Gh0stygrm
00:26.27Gh0stynope still no go :/
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00:32.02Gh0styMrBawb: http://pastebin.com/7n8sWcHt
00:32.17Gh0styif you would mind to check my bad code hack perhaps? :/
00:32.32Gh0stysearch for '//' where I now added some comments in the paste
00:34.40wjtGh0sty: right, 'conf_client' isn't in scope there
00:34.53wjtyou define a local variable called conf_client in __init__
00:34.54wjtit's only defined there
00:34.55Gh0styand a self.conf_client? :/
00:35.08Gh0styor it does not work that way? :P
00:35.09wjtyeah, if you change all references to conf_client to self.conf_client, you should enjoy better luck
00:35.20Gh0stytried that
00:35.23Gh0styno luck either
00:35.34Gh0stycan i see somewhere the output of that script?
00:35.34wjtwhat's the error if you do that
00:35.38Gh0stythere is no messages logs
00:35.42Gh0styon n900
00:35.49wjtrun it in a terminal
00:35.52Gh0styor where do i find that?
00:36.02Gh0stywell how can i invoke the toggle event? :P
00:36.15Gh0styits a desktop widget
00:36.20wjtohhhh
00:36.48Gh0styor does a desktop widget code get cached somewhere? :/
00:36.53Gh0styperhaps thats the problem ...
00:37.14Gh0stynot sure ... never worked with gui stuff and barely worked with python :P
00:37.26Gh0styi am a hardcore bash scripter :P
00:38.10Gh0styoh or wait
00:38.19Gh0styi should also change the conf_client in the init
00:38.24Gh0styto self.conf_client?
00:38.36Gh0stythinks he understands ...
00:38.47wjtyes, exactly :)
00:42.13Gh0stynope
00:42.17Gh0stystill nothing :(
00:42.18Gh0stydamned
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00:52.02MrBawbGh0sty: to grab the output, just wrap it in a shell script
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00:52.25MrBawbprogram.orig >/tmp/log 2>&1
00:54.16Gh0styMrBawb: and how the hell do i add a shellscripts as a DESKTOP widget? :p
00:54.46Gh0styjust rebooting
00:54.50Gh0styit should work now my idea
00:54.58pupnikthere is an application for that
00:55.03pupnikforgot the name
00:55.03Gh0stythink its caching the script or something
00:55.27MrBawbGh0sty: the program is already registered as a widget, just rename it and have the shellscript execute it
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00:55.50Gh0styhmm good point! :P
00:56.31Gh0stysee
00:56.38Gh0styit caches the widget code :P
00:56.44Gh0styit actually works ... :P
00:56.52Gh0stya reboot was enough :)
00:56.58Gh0styI knew it ... :P
00:56.58MrBawbah
00:57.11Gh0stynow it works
00:57.25Gh0stywell its not exactly the way it should be but as a hack it'll do ...
00:57.43Gh0styonly problem is if I don't turn off my bluetooth myself but for example autodisconnect kills it
00:57.51Gh0stymy device will never lock ...
00:58.35Gh0stybut it's safer then trying to unlock it one handed while driving on the highway ...
00:59.04Gh0stya small hack for man a giant hack for safety or something :P
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01:01.29Gh0stythx MrBawb and wjt you've been a great help ... and now off to bed (its 2am here :x)
01:01.39Gh0styg'nite
01:02.16MrBawbgoodnight
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01:07.46wjtGh0sty: .o/
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01:42.58Venemogood evening guys
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02:06.03Termanagood morning
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04:45.30TermanaJesus christ I'm an idiot. Just took a test for Uni and it asked what CDs were originally made for. I accidentally selected the one that said ANALOG high quality sound rather than DIGITAL high quality sound :\ Still 9/10 isn't bad and luckily it's only 3% of the units grade :p
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04:59.32Termanahears the crickets
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04:59.55pupnik_moinin
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05:32.41DocScrutinizermonoin
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05:33.42DocScrutinizermtd4/initfs/initrd anyone?
05:35.01DocScrutinizeris it really empty and void - and unused?
05:35.19DocScrutinizerHELL - unused????
05:35.41DocScrutinizerand we headdesk where to place uBoot?!?
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05:36.32DocScrutinizerit's twice the size of mtd0/bootloader
05:37.13DocScrutinizerAM I WRONG?
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05:41.51DocScrutinizerjacekowski: how hard can it be to patch start_of_code of NOLO (much in a virus alike way) to call a subroutine in mtd4, and there (let's call that "uBoot") first check if slide is open (one GPIO to test) and if not, execute the missing 4 bytes code from start of NOLO, then return from subroutine?
05:43.51DocScrutinizer*if* however slide is open, do not return from subroutine, but rather start up uBoot, with menu and all - fullfeatured as we got *plenty* of storage, TWICE the size of whole NOLO partition
05:45.14DocScrutinizerthat should suffice even for uBoot, with watchdog kicking, proper (local?) env storage, plenty of room for bootmenu config in env, plus battery charging
05:46.15DocScrutinizerdarn, we probably even could add memtest-armel :-P
05:46.20TermanaDocScrutinizer - Umm, doesn't NOLO not boot if it changed in anyway? It would change NOLO's checksum
05:46.27Termanait's*
05:46.32DocScrutinizerNope
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05:46.57DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
05:47.25DocScrutinizerNOLO isn't checksummed by current xloader
05:49.03DocScrutinizerhail jacekowski for educating me about that fact
05:51.40DocScrutinizerwonders anyway WhereTF the NAND "partition table" might be - whether this is a mtdparts.h that simply is #include'd to everything that deals with NAND, like flasher, libcal/sysinfo, kernel...
05:52.29DocScrutinizerNOLO, of course :-D
05:54.04DocScrutinizerTermana: comments?
05:54.22Termanacomments on?
05:54.41DocScrutinizerthe whole brainburst above
05:54.46TermanaNOLO still has to be correctly signed though right?
05:55.02DocScrutinizerNope
05:55.10DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
05:55.14DocScrutinizerNOLO isn't checksummed by current xloader
05:55.14TermanaSo you can stick anything into NOLO?
05:55.20DocScrutinizerhail jacekowski for educating me about that fact
05:55.26TermanaNOLO's partition rather
05:55.42TermanaLike, say u-boot if you made it so it initialised everything properly
05:55.59DocScrutinizersee chanlog link, obviously yes, at least patched NOLO - so probably anything else as well
05:56.34DocScrutinizerTermana: darn, read backscroll, we just need to change first 4 bytes of NOLO
05:57.11DocScrutinizeruBoot is too large for NOLO partition, but it will fit *easily* into mtd4/initfs
05:58.36TermanaRemind me of the practical benefits of this over the current solution again?
05:59.27DocScrutinizerstandard untweaked kernel
05:59.34DocScrutinizerlots of space for uBoot
05:59.47DocScrutinizerreally simple install and uninstall
06:00.02DocScrutinizerwell at least compared to what it's now
06:00.16TermanaYou forgot one thing though
06:00.22TermanaA gazillion whine arses on tmo
06:00.42DocScrutinizereh?
06:00.53TermanaNothing :p
06:01.32DocScrutinizeryou think we shouldn't make it *TOO* easy for that gazillion?
06:02.00TermanaNo, what I'm saying is, it doesn't matter what you do, they'll whine about it
06:02.12Termanaand no matter how easy you make it, they will stuff it up
06:02.20DocScrutinizerguess how much I'm concerned
06:02.37TermanaMy rough guess would be, none.
06:02.40Termana:p
06:03.02DocScrutinizera bit overoptimistic, but close X-P
06:03.07RobbieThe1stThat would be -damn- cool
06:03.40DocScrutinizerTermana: actually I care even less
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06:03.46Termana:P
06:07.07DocScrutinizerjust one thing bothers me: WHY has _nobody_ seen this before? Am I wrong on initrd/mtd4 being unused?
06:08.49RobbieThe1stI don't think so
06:09.03DocScrutinizer(<Termana> Like, say u-boot if you made it so it initialised everything properly ) that's what I was about to walk gnutoo thru the basics last night, in #openmoko-cdevel
06:09.41DocScrutinizergnutoo wants to do a 'little' fancy and make uBoot fit for primetime on N900
06:09.42SpeedEvilHaha. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/24/apple_10_billionth_customer_prank_call/ 10 billionth customer gets $10K. Of ... non-transferrible itunes gift vouchers.
06:10.00DocScrutinizerFUCKIIIIIIIIIT
06:10.07DocScrutinizermoin SpeedEvil :-D
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06:10.14SpeedEvilMorning.
06:10.30Termana_darn internet
06:10.34Termana_morning SpeedEvil
06:10.49DocScrutinizer$10k of itunes - enough to overkill every single synapse of my brain
06:11.44DocScrutinizerI guess we need to report this threat to Geneva
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06:12.17DocScrutinizeror even DenHaag
06:12.48TermanaGees I disconnect for 2 seconds from talking about NOLO and the empty initfs partition to reporting threats to Geneva
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06:14.27TermanaDocScrutinizer - I don't think it's that no one has noticed the partition before, it's just we never had a use for it.
06:14.31DocScrutinizerTermana: haha, yeah we're fast
06:14.39TermanaBesides the whole /opt thing I suppose
06:14.56DocScrutinizerit's just too small for /opt I guess :-)
06:15.22DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: please read 60min backscroll
06:15.32DocScrutinizerRFC
06:29.19DocScrutinizerERRATUM: in above scenario, do NOT make uBoot check for slide open! Check for sth different rather, like cam-button pressed means "boot to NOLO" (or "U" or "N" pressed on keyboard) - rationale: see <-- "U" key, for flashing with NOLO
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06:31.56DocScrutinizerin epic version: We want both NOLO and uBoot to be able to gain control during boot, with open kbd slider. Otherwise we couldn't hold 'U' on bootup, for flashing via NOLO
06:33.13DocScrutinizerprobably cam-door is best: open means NOLO, closed means uBoot
06:34.45DocScrutinizeror even better: battery cover removed: NOLO. Boot with battery cover in place: uBoot. Now that pleases my sense of ergonomics
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06:36.25DocScrutinizeras for most foolproof flashing procedure, you will find yourself in front of a device booting without battery cover anyway (start flasher, plug in to PC, insert battery :-D )
06:37.06DocScrutinizernice :-D
06:42.40RobbieThe1stOut of curiosity, why do we even -need- to hold U? it always works for me just to have the flasher ready and plugged in during boot; never had to press U.
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06:44.42SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: above sounds fine - parched nolo
06:44.46DocScrutinizer"U" is the emergency brake, when PC is too slow to answer N900 "pings" on USB, so N900 would time out
06:45.24DocScrutinizerhehe, guess what - stskeeps hates it. Just suggested it in #meego-arm
06:45.37DocScrutinizerwell, I don't mind
06:45.44felluFrom where is best to get better battery for n900 o.o
06:46.10SpeedEvilfellu: Narnia.
06:46.12DocScrutinizerfrom repos and wiki ;-D
06:46.41felluHow much Mah is max, hmm
06:46.42DocScrutinizerthere's some aps that magically improve your battery on simply uninstalling them
06:46.48felluYea
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06:48.18DocScrutinizerwell, a flock of ~250 Mah is probably max for one shepherd
06:48.45RobbieThe1st...Why does Stskeeps hate it?
06:49.32DocScrutinizer[2011-01-25 07:17:50] <Stskeeps> you don't see a problem in regular users having their nolo modded and being in a state they can't get out of by simple flashing?
06:49.34DocScrutinizer[2011-01-25 07:18:29] * Stskeeps makes a note to not fly any planes where DocScrutinizer contributed code
06:49.40RobbieThe1stSpeaking of which, I've got to ask him about bootmenu-n900; his new version seems to be broken.
06:50.39DocScrutinizerlol
06:50.40RobbieThe1stY'know, that -is- a point; I'd look at rebuilding nolo so that all the code needed to check for the back cover is in that partition
06:50.58RobbieThe1stThat way the "recovery" boot only requires the one partition
06:51.18felluHmm
06:51.39DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: sounds good, yeah
06:52.14DocScrutinizerand it's irrelevant if we change 4 bytes or 200bytes at start of NOLO
06:52.25RobbieThe1stYea
06:52.48DocScrutinizerwell, it's maybe hard to keep NOLO functional at all, with 200bytes missing :-D
06:52.49RobbieThe1stOut of curiosity, what would need to be done to reflash a broken nolo?
06:53.05DocScrutinizercoldflash
06:53.09DocScrutinizer~coldflash
06:53.09infoboti heard coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing
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06:53.37RobbieThe1stGo for it. That's not hard.
06:53.49RobbieThe1stI see no problem in alpha-testing it.
06:55.26RobbieThe1stNow, if it required a custom serial cable and soldering to the pads under the battery... I'd be slightly worried. Cold-flashing? No.
06:55.30DocScrutinizerI see no problem for meego endusers either - but meh, that's stskeeps
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06:56.03RobbieThe1stLet me know if/when you get it working. I'd love to test it.
06:56.55DocScrutinizerwell, it's for sure not me getting it to work. I'm always only the mentor. It's probably GNUtoo and maybe mrmoku who will implement it
06:58.03DocScrutinizerso odds are you'll see it in SHR-N900 first
06:58.23RobbieThe1stOh well
06:58.42DocScrutinizerit's distro agnostic, so who cares
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06:59.28DocScrutinizerbtw that's another advantage of this concept over what we got now for uBoot-kernel-hybrid
07:00.27DocScrutinizerplus it won't break SSU nor will it break *on* a kernel SSU
07:01.17DocScrutinizerand no more conflicts with the deprecated obsolete multiboot \o/
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07:03.32RobbieThe1stYay!
07:04.11RobbieThe1stOh, btw -Thanks for the bme-replacement charge script; I got it working! ^_^
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07:19.41DocScrutinizer[2011-01-25 08:17:21] <DocScrutinizer> bad block in initrd uBoot -yes, that's the first killer I heard so far
07:19.53DocScrutinizer[2011-01-25 08:18:11] <DocScrutinizer> check for magic and skip block if not found. Magic = starting 4 bytes of uBoot
07:20.38DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: yw
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07:21.04DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: hoping for a backup-menu update :-D
07:21.35RobbieThe1stI've got it almost ready. Right now, I'm trying to figure WTF is wrong with bootmenu-1.9
07:22.19RobbieThe1stI've just found out that text2screen is returning "Unable to get screen dimensions, Unable to initialize. Exiting"
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07:35.14reeniginEesreveRcan i connect to two multiple internet connections at once and have separate routing tables for both of them?
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07:49.36SpeedEvilreeniginEesreveR: not with the stock software
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07:49.55reeniginEesreveRcan i do it in pretty much the same we i do it on linux?
07:50.02reeniginEesreveR* normal linux
07:50.33SpeedEvilIn principle, yes.
07:50.39SpeedEvilIn practice, it's awkward.
07:51.13SpeedEvilFor example, the wlan network picker will not work, asit's integrated into Internet Connection Daemon (ICD)
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07:51.41SpeedEvilAnd you have to work out how to make most of the stack think it's 'online' - which is another thing ICD does
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07:52.03reeniginEesreveRhmmm....
07:52.12reeniginEesreveRis there any network-manager like thing on maemo?
07:52.44SpeedEvilYes, closed source.
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07:54.44meceo/
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08:00.16RST38hyawns
08:01.12reeniginEesreveRSpeedEvil, whats its name?
08:02.18pupnikputs a hot bubbling cauldron of chicken-feet on the table. Breakfast!
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08:08.19RobbieThe1stVersion 0.60 of BackupMenu's been uploaded and is building. You can grab an early copy here: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/backupmenu_0.60-1_all.deb
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08:14.03MohammadAGmorning
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08:18.23felluVNC client disconnect all the time :S
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08:18.48MohammadAGI use presence VNC
08:18.58MohammadAGits ui is awesome-ish
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08:26.23jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: not very hard
08:26.28jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: nokia logo would have to go
08:26.37jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and possibly all pictures
08:26.45DocScrutinizerjacekowski: :-D well that's bearable
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08:27.14jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that would give 16K of space
08:27.31jacekowskiin which you can fit pretty much anything
08:27.34DocScrutinizerhmm, why do we need that much space?
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08:27.39jacekowskiwe don't
08:27.45jacekowskibut that's how much pictures take
08:28.05jacekowskiyou probably need hmm
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08:28.50jacekowskiwhat is in mtd4?
08:29.01toadpolesomeone help me fix an sd card that's showing wrong size? its a 16 gig showing size as 1.5 gig
08:29.23psycho_oreosmaybe its showing you free space?
08:29.32toadpolenope total space
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08:29.37psycho_oreoswhich program did you use, and did you check it with df -h?
08:29.42jacekowskitoadpole: how do you know it's 16G?
08:29.50toadpoleit was 16 gig yesterday
08:30.07toadpolei wrote meego on it with windiskimager
08:30.17toadpolethen formatted
08:30.22toadpolenow it shows size as 1.5 gigs
08:30.26jacekowskihmm
08:30.27jacekowskiwipe it
08:30.35jacekowskieasiest to do with pc
08:30.53toadpoleis wipe in any way different from formatting?
08:31.06jacekowskiyes
08:31.08fluxtoadpole, repartition it? (not sure if windows lets you)
08:31.13jacekowskiformats just formats first partition
08:31.21jacekowskiand that partition is probably 1.5G now
08:31.22DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I thought of changing first ~30bytes to a ""mv r1, startaddr_of_initrd; loop: cmp @r1, MAGIC; jmpz r1; add r1, NANDBLOCKSIZE; jmp loop;
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08:31.25threshmoo
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08:31.39threshany ideas on how or where can I get a chroot for fremantle?
08:31.46jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: you have to load stuff from nand
08:31.49jacekowskiand nand isn't xip
08:31.51toadpolebrb, lunch, 10 mins
08:31.52DocScrutinizerjacekowski: mtd4 is initrd
08:31.58jacekowskihmm
08:32.08DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yep, of course
08:32.09threshI dont need an abomination that is scratchbox, qemu-arm+binfmt magic are fine for me
08:32.41psycho_oreosthresh, have you looked at something like MADDE?
08:32.43DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I wasn't suggesting that's valid assembler code. Just a sketch
08:32.45jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: so basicaly there would be normal initrd there and after that u-boot?
08:33.01DocScrutinizerthere's nothing right now
08:33.13jacekowskithere is no initrd?
08:33.15threshpsycho_oreos: yeah, MADDE allows one to launch a full virtual machine, which I don't need as well
08:33.16DocScrutinizernope
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08:33.30DocScrutinizerafaik maemo5 has no initrd
08:33.46psycho_oreosthresh, well apart from those two, I don't know of anything else
08:33.49MohammadAGit's initfs
08:33.57DocScrutinizerwhatever
08:34.07MohammadAGand preinit shows "no initfs \o/"
08:34.16MohammadAGso what, it's just empty?
08:34.27threshpsycho_oreos: well yeah I was hoping of some 'debootstrap'-like recipe to have a chroot
08:34.29DocScrutinizeryes, <FF> <FF>
08:34.38MohammadAGIt's the same size as the kernel partition
08:34.42DocScrutinizeryes
08:34.47DocScrutinizerpretty huge
08:34.55DocScrutinizercompared to what we got now
08:35.08MohammadAGwe can fit pr0^H^H^H u-boot on it!
08:35.16threshthe best idea I came up yet is to mount qemu image used by MADDE and just copy the files
08:35.30jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i think nolo isn't configured to load initrd at all
08:35.43DocScrutinizerwe don't want initrd
08:35.52MohammadAGjacekowski, read /sbin/preinit
08:35.54DocScrutinizerwe want uBoot in there
08:36.00jacekowskiyeah but i mean it won't load anything from mtd4
08:36.05MohammadAGit simply says "no initfs"
08:36.09MohammadAGit should
08:36.18MohammadAGit did for the N8x0 didn't it?
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08:36.27jacekowskibut using nolo functions it can be done in ~300bytes
08:36.31DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's what my "code" above was ment for, to patch NOLO
08:36.48DocScrutinizermeant*
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08:37.48jacekowskiyeah i'm just saying it will be little bit more complicated than that
08:37.51jacekowskibut possible
08:38.07jacekowskii've done more complicated code caves
08:38.21MohammadAGbut if they planned no initfs
08:38.33MohammadAGwhy did they partition the NAND to have mtd4?
08:38.38jacekowskihow big is initrd?
08:38.40jacekowskiehh
08:38.44jacekowskimtd4*
08:38.50jacekowskiand other thing
08:38.57MohammadAGsame as kernel fs
08:39.02jacekowski2MB?
08:39.06DocScrutinizerso move the first 4 bytes into picture area of NOLO, replace a jump to some additional code, and in that additional code do a test if there's a valid MAGIC number at start of first block in initfs partition, else jump to next block. Once MAGIC is found, jump to that as it's start of uBoot
08:39.06MohammadAGyeah
08:39.10jacekowskican anybody with linux try something for me?
08:39.20MohammadAGwe all have linux
08:39.23MohammadAGmost of us anyway
08:39.24jacekowskion pcc
08:39.39MohammadAGmy point stands
08:39.44DocScrutinizerjacekowski: err, 4MB?
08:39.53MohammadAG2MB
08:40.16johnxI parsed that as ppc first :)
08:40.25johnxbut yeah, what's the question?
08:40.27MohammadAGstarts planning to install mohammedia player on mtd4 muhahaha
08:40.38MohammadAGjohnx, some of us have a PS3
08:40.39MohammadAG:P
08:40.52johnxMohammadAG, I have a powerbook G4 :)
08:41.04MohammadAGpfft, PS3 owns it
08:41.05MohammadAG:P
08:41.20threshthe problem is, that qemu image doesnt have anything kpartx would try :/
08:41.40johnxpictures MohammadAG sitting around with a PS3 on his lap and a TV on the table at the coffee shop
08:41.59MohammadAGjohnx, good times
08:42.01RST38hmoo johnx, thresh, Mohammad
08:42.06johnxm00f RST38h
08:42.08MohammadAGmoo RST38h
08:42.14RST38hjohnx: look at the bright side: he can always warm up his coffee
08:42.16DocScrutinizerwaaaaaah, the Vogons are tearing down my house
08:42.16threshhey RST38h
08:42.30DocScrutinizerhi RST38h
08:42.34MohammadAGRST38h, my laptop does a way better job at that
08:42.36RST38hDoc: Use the laser
08:42.48RST38hMohammad: Than PS3 even? Hm
08:42.50jacekowskibut going back to my linux question
08:42.55jacekowskii want to test something
08:42.57MohammadAGRST38h, 85C!
08:43.00jacekowskibut it may require coldflash of nolo
08:43.09MohammadAGdd mtd4?
08:43.11jacekowskiand i don't have linux here on my work laptop
08:43.22jacekowskiso i want somebody else to try it
08:43.23DocScrutinizerhmm
08:43.24jacekowskiDocScrutinizer:
08:43.26jacekowskiMohammadAG:
08:43.33jacekowskii'm pointing at you
08:43.34RST38hjacekowski: the answer is "no"
08:43.43RST38h(actually, the full answer has been "shit, no!"
08:43.45DocScrutinizermy brain is bouncing in my head
08:43.47psycho_oreoslol
08:43.52toadpoleokay, so disk management shows me 13-odd gb as unallocated space
08:43.57jacekowskiRST38h: move away, you're stopping progress
08:43.58toadpolebut i can't do anything to it
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08:44.12toadpolecan't delete the one existing partition either
08:44.22MohammadAGThis feels like a sci-fi movie or something
08:44.40MohammadAGso jacekowski, what do you want?
08:44.44jacekowskijust a sec
08:45.05DocScrutinizertoadpole: umount all vlumes, use cfdisk, profit
08:45.20psycho_oreosdd ftw ;)
08:46.05toadpole( DocScrutinizer ): how about a windows solution?
08:46.17DocScrutinizeryeah, a nice little dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmc count=1 bs=10M
08:46.30psycho_oreosor s/zero/urandom/
08:46.36DocScrutinizertiaNFC. Windows, what's that?
08:46.50DocScrutinizertoadpole: ^^^
08:46.52psycho_oreosnon-existant OS ;)
08:47.02johnxtoadpole, loading up windows in a VM, hang on a sec.
08:47.11psycho_oreosrawwrite might do it
08:47.44threshwhat's the filesystem of RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.nand ?
08:48.04DocScrutinizerubifs?
08:48.11toadpolei guess something on maemo, would be fine too, is that possible?
08:48.14DocScrutinizeryou mean the / fs?
08:48.24threshUBIFS error (pid 24902): ubifs_get_sb: cannot open "/dev/loop3", error -22 bleh :)
08:48.45threshDocScrutinizer: yeah
08:48.49psycho_oreosthere's fdisk on maemo but afaik it looks very much like sfdisk which might be somewhat confusing
08:48.53DocScrutinizershould be ubifs for all I know
08:48.54johnxtoadpole, I'd just stick with windows for this and google for: "repartition sd card"
08:48.57threshi converted that qemu image to RAW, but no idea how to mount it properly
08:49.26toadpolei guess that'll help, i'll look around and may trouble you again if i can't find anything useful
08:49.28toadpolethanks guys
08:49.36johnxgood luck
08:49.41DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: cfdisk ftw
08:50.06johnxcfdisk has been my favorite for approximately forever
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08:50.46psycho_oreosI personally don't think you can do much with a raw file that's been converted from qemu image. The first fair few lines of the file would be just stuff for qemu, bad idea. The second is the rest of the stuff are pre-compiled for ARM stuff
08:50.57psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, don't know if that's available for maemo :)
08:51.21DocScrutinizertoadpole: IroN900:/home/user# apt-cache policy cfdisk  --> Installed: 2.12r-19    500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages
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08:51.43psycho_oreoso.O its there
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08:52.51threshha WIN
08:53.08threshlaunched runtime with qemu, apt-get install rsync
08:53.17threshrsync -e "ssh -p 6666" root@127.0.0.1:
08:53.18threshftw
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08:54.28jacekowskiMohammadAG: http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/nolo/mod_nolo.bin
08:54.34jacekowskiMohammadAG: flash that into your phone
08:54.54jacekowskiMohammadAG: it's just modified to force nolo prompt to appear
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08:56.20MohammadAGjacekowski, chances of a brick?
08:56.35MohammadAGeven if recoverable
08:56.53johnxthen it's not a brick
08:57.05MohammadAGindeed
08:57.46DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: your backup-menu is painfully missing a "boot to linux" option, effectively a way to normally boot with kbd open
08:58.52RobbieThe1stI suppose, but I intend to let the underlying loader(boomenu-n900 in this case) handle that
08:59.17RobbieThe1stUnfortunately, bootmenu-1.8 didn't really support booting into Maemo(the option just crashed the system)
08:59.28RobbieThe1stand this new version... I can't get it to display -any- menu.
08:59.29DocScrutinizerooh
08:59.46RST38hWhat color do you want your brick to be?
09:00.07DocScrutinizertime for 12648430
09:00.12johnxRST38h, you can have any color you want as long as it's black :D
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09:01.20RobbieThe1stAlso, FYI - You can try making it work yourself: Just edit /etc/bootmenu.d/backupmenu.item appropriately, and launch the file refrenced inside
09:02.32RST38hjohnx: Xboxes are red, I have heard
09:03.11johnxyou said 'brick,' not 'boat anchor'
09:03.37jacekowskiMohammadAG: yes, that's why i'm asking if you can coldflash
09:04.22MohammadAGjacekowski, flashed, no problems
09:04.42MohammadAGdevice booted
09:05.06MohammadAGit's an x-loader image right?
09:06.06jacekowskinope
09:06.08jacekowskinolo image
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09:07.42MohammadAGjacekowski, no I meant I should flash it with -x right?
09:07.50jacekowskiMohammadAG: no
09:07.55jacekowskilet me check
09:07.56MohammadAGuh
09:09.10jacekowskiflasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=nolo -s mod_nolo.bin -x xloader.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103
09:11.50MohammadAGjacekowski, NOLO's on screen atm
09:11.58MohammadAGI'm guessing it "worked"?
09:12.26JaffaMonrning, all
09:12.35jacekowskihmm, anything happens if you push some buttons
09:12.39jacekowskion keyboard
09:14.08jacekowskitry typing boot
09:14.31jacekowskiMohammadAG: are you still there or it has exploded?
09:14.48MohammadAGnothing shows up jacekowski
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09:15.01jacekowskihmm, so it's probably serial only
09:15.06MohammadAGemergency charging
09:15.19MohammadAGbut the battery's full...
09:15.21jacekowskiyou can flash it back to normal nolo
09:16.37jacekowskii'm not sure if normal flash mode will work or you have to coldflash it
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09:17.29MohammadAGnope
09:17.33MohammadAGnormal flashing doesn't work
09:18.13jacekowskithen coldflash
09:18.36MohammadAGit doesn't seem to want to...
09:19.02jacekowskihow are you doing it?
09:19.15jacekowski~coldflash
09:19.16infobotcoldflash is, like, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing
09:19.19MohammadAGdone
09:19.32jacekowskiok
09:20.09jacekowskihmm, i'll have to try it on mine when i get back home
09:20.22MohammadAGcan't windows cold flash?
09:20.26MohammadAGor is enumeration too slow?
09:21.07jacekowskienumeration is too slow
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09:28.33jacekowskiMohammadAG: yeah, that was supposed to give nolo prompt
09:28.41jacekowskibut ihas hoping for on screen prompt
09:28.47jacekowskibut it looks like serial prompt
09:29.01stef_204My OS is version V 20.2010.36-2, RX 51, Nokia N900.  Is the the latest available?  Sorry but I am unable to see which is current version on maemo.org
09:29.38jacekowskihmm, i don't think so
09:29.39jacekowskicheck
09:29.56psycho_oreosit is
09:29.59jacekowskihttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php
09:30.19stef_204jacekowski: is that link for me?
09:30.23jacekowskiyes
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09:31.02stef_204jacekowski: so my OS version is not latest one then?
09:31.08jacekowskii'm not sure
09:31.15jacekowskiif you look at that website you can check
09:31.18stef_204ok, lemme check
09:31.26jacekowskii don't remember these numbers
09:31.33jacekowskibut psycho_oreos said that it is latest
09:31.49psycho_oreosits PR1.3
09:31.51johnxstef_204, the date in the version number is when that build went *into* testing, not when it was released to the public
09:32.14stef_204oh, OK, wasn't sure psycho_oreos was replying to me or not.
09:32.23psycho_oreosstef_204, I was :)
09:32.42stef_204psycho_oreos: tx! well if I have the latest, no need to update...
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09:33.07jacekowskiyou can always flash it
09:35.34stef_204ok tx guys
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09:41.46GNUtoo|laptophi jacekowski DocScrutinizer51
09:42.13DocScrutinizerhi GNUtoo|laptop
09:42.14GNUtoo|laptopI saw you discussed about porting u-boot
09:42.20GNUtoo|laptopin this channel
09:42.24DocScrutinizeryes
09:42.31GNUtoo|laptopisn't uboot too big?
09:42.34GNUtoo|laptopand too hard?
09:42.40GNUtoo|laptopcompared to barebox/uboot_v2?
09:42.56DocScrutinizeryou seen the chanlog of #openmoko-cdevel and here?
09:43.18GNUtoo|laptoponly here, and part of it, because the logs are long
09:43.56GNUtoo|laptopdid someone say something important on that mather when I was away in #openmoko-cdevel?
09:44.07DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: I don't have any particular notion about uBoot vs alternatives - as long as it's a full featured bootloader that supports config and menu
09:44.48GNUtoo|laptopI think the only usable alternatives are uboot or ubootV2
09:44.59DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: well, my suggestion was to use mtd4/initfs partition
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09:45.21DocScrutinizerit's _huge_ and unused
09:45.31GNUtoo|laptopthere is also an mtdlog partition
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09:45.42GNUtoo|laptopbasically I tried that:
09:45.49DocScrutinizerand getting rid of this uBoot-kernel-hybrid has a lot of benefits
09:46.02MohammadAGuBoot2?
09:46.29GNUtoo|laptophttp://barebox.org/
09:46.48DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: log partition is a bad idea. It's actually a partition that gets frequently written to, in normal operation
09:46.53GNUtoo|laptopit seem a lot easier to work with
09:46.56GNUtoo|laptopok
09:47.02felluhmh
09:47.11MohammadAGmtd4 is ideal
09:47.15fellucannot connect to my vnc server on n900 ;I
09:47.15GNUtoo|laptopok
09:47.18DocScrutinizermtd2 is a log of console, when OOPS or PANIC
09:47.24fellux11vnc
09:47.27GNUtoo|laptopanyway I can't even coldboot uboot.bin or barebox.bin
09:47.30DocScrutinizermtd4 is unused
09:47.47felluwhere I can find log about vnc server on n900?
09:47.55MohammadAGor we could always make mtd5 smaller :P
09:47.57MohammadAGjk
09:47.59GNUtoo|laptopalso there is a risk of bricking
09:48.09GNUtoo|laptopfor instance if the battery is too low
09:48.17GNUtoo|laptopand that it discharge completely
09:48.17MohammadAGthat's not a brick
09:48.21MohammadAGjust charge it up
09:48.24GNUtoo|laptophow?
09:48.30GNUtoo|laptopif the bootloader is not ther
09:48.30MohammadAGexternally
09:48.33GNUtoo|laptopok
09:48.35MohammadAGit doesn't qualify as a brick
09:48.41GNUtoo|laptopok
09:48.49kerioMohammadAG: not everyone has 8 batteries and an external charger like you
09:48.58GNUtoo|laptopanyway I've an openmoko battery so it should be ok
09:49.11MohammadAGkerio, any 3 pin battery that fits works
09:49.27MohammadAGi charge one of my N900 batteries in an N95
09:49.49MohammadAGit's longer, but the 3 pins reach the contacts
09:50.05MohammadAGand it seems the N95 isn't hardcoded for its own battery
09:50.24psycho_oreoswtf? now that's interesting
09:50.30GNUtoo|laptophttp://pastebin.com/pe4LS2bC
09:50.39MohammadAGyeah, proves that bme is retarded
09:51.01DocScrutinizerno matter, if bootloader would really charge on its own, that's a good thing anyway
09:51.02jacekowskibme can charge differen batteries iirc
09:51.35GNUtoo|laptopso I've to flash?
09:51.42DocScrutinizerbme actually doesn't care and charges almost everything, at least on N900
09:51.46MohammadAGjacekowski, but the meter's fucked
09:52.02MohammadAGask ShadowJK, his mugen shows full till depleted
09:52.17jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: that's more serious
09:52.34jacekowskiMohammadAG: because meter has to be calibrated to specific battery
09:52.41jacekowskiMohammadAG: and it looks like bme learns battery capacity
09:52.44jacekowskiMohammadAG: and it's stored in cal
09:52.50MohammadAGjacekowski, it works fine on an N95
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09:53.38jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: what is in barebox.bin?
09:54.00GNUtoo|laptopjacekowski, something like uboot.bin
09:54.21GNUtoo|laptoponly that's it's barebox = ubootv2 rather than uboot
09:54.46GNUtoo|laptopand it's small
09:54.47jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: you're doing it wrong
09:54.49GNUtoo|laptopsmaller than uboot
09:54.50GNUtoo|laptopok
09:54.59jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: first, don't use coldflash
09:55.01jacekowski2nd
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09:55.32jacekowski<PROTECTED>
09:55.44jacekowskiusing normal flashing procedure
09:55.45GNUtoo|laptopok
09:55.58jacekowskicoldflash is only to boot phone with nokia nolo
09:56.02GNUtoo|laptopso I can't coldflash my own code?
09:56.03GNUtoo|laptopok
09:56.09jacekowskino
09:56.15GNUtoo|laptopI also tried with pusb but failed
09:56.23jacekowskiall that coldflash is doing is booting phone over usb
09:56.28jacekowskiit's not flashing it
09:56.30GNUtoo|laptopI know
09:56.33GNUtoo|laptopthat's what I want
09:56.35GNUtoo|laptopfor now
09:56.47jacekowskiwell, then you just do it that way
09:56.57GNUtoo|laptopso I could port some sort of bootloader without risk
09:57.10jacekowskiwell then that's ok
09:57.16jacekowskithat command you're using
09:57.24GNUtoo|laptopok
09:57.29jacekowskiand it just shows that your bl isn't behaving like normal nolo would
09:57.52GNUtoo|laptopso the bootloader somehow runs?
09:58.01DocScrutinizerthat would be boring if it worked on first take
09:58.14DocScrutinizer:-)
09:58.23GNUtoo|laptopsomehow....
09:58.29GNUtoo|laptopI mean that it jumps to bootloader
09:58.37GNUtoo|laptopand then it has issue in bootloader's code
09:59.40GNUtoo|laptopor isn't the barebox.bin even executed or sent
09:59.50GNUtoo|laptops/sent/sent completely/
10:00.05GNUtoo|laptopas I've not the code of flasher I can't verify what it's doing
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10:00.17MohammadAGwhy not flash it?
10:00.27GNUtoo|laptopmaybe I should try to replace flasher's coldboot feature with pusb
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10:00.40MohammadAGyou can coldflash back to Nokia's loader
10:00.49GNUtoo|laptopif I've enough battery, yes
10:00.54crashanddieback in a few seconds
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10:01.54MohammadAGthen charge up, flash, test, flash back
10:02.08GNUtoo|laptopindeed so I'll wait for the battery to charge enough
10:02.14GNUtoo|laptopbecause for now I've less than 10%
10:02.21MohammadAGah
10:02.22GNUtoo|laptopor nearly 10%
10:03.16DocScrutinizerthere's quite some tests that won't do proper flashing when battery is low
10:03.47DocScrutinizerI.E. NOLO refuses to enter flashing mode when bat voltage too low
10:03.56GNUtoo|laptopok
10:05.29DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: when you are experimenting with elementary things like rootfs and BL, then I suggest you get a second battery and keep that charged, for recovery purposes
10:05.35TermanaDocScrutinizer - while we're editing NOLO, seems like a good time to implement your "press keyboard button and NOLO will start charging" solution :p
10:06.18GNUtoo|laptopI just wondered about that, when you buy a battery, is it already charged?
10:06.25DocScrutinizerTermana: that will go to uBoot. It's simply too much hacking to implement it to NOLO
10:06.39pupnikdo people use 'booting over USB' to test new kernels and system images?
10:06.42DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: usually not 100%
10:07.01GNUtoo|laptopyes but it could manage to boot right?
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10:07.12DocScrutinizershould
10:07.14GNUtoo|laptopok
10:07.32GNUtoo|laptopthe openmoko battery doesn't seem to fit anyway
10:07.33DocScrutinizerotherwise odds are it got deep discharged and is DOA
10:07.56GNUtoo|laptopwhat's the best thing to do:
10:08.05GNUtoo|laptop*buy the battery before it happens
10:08.09GNUtoo|laptopor:
10:08.10DocScrutinizeryes
10:08.20GNUtoo|laptop*buy the battery when it has just happened
10:08.30DocScrutinizernope, buy now and charge
10:08.42DocScrutinizerrecharge every 3 months
10:08.44GNUtoo|laptopok
10:09.19DocScrutinizerstore in a cool place
10:09.27*** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@nat/nokia/x-kxkcrkdjllnwioit)
10:09.30DocScrutinizernot in freezer though
10:09.50psycho_oreosheh
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10:10.15psycho_oreosmore like store in a cool, dry place
10:10.56MohammadAGcool oven then?
10:11.02RobbieThe1st<_< Y'know, provided you keep it inside a baggie, a freezer is fine. I left a Nokia spare battery that was fully charged in the freezer for over 6 months, then outside in the shop for at least a year... It got down to -10F there.
10:11.18psycho_oreoshumm what about placing it in an airtight bag and then placing that into the fridge :D
10:11.21RobbieThe1stI just found it again, stuck it in a phone, booted it... it was >8-%
10:11.24RobbieThe1st*8
10:11.27RobbieThe1st*80
10:11.29GNUtoo|laptopok
10:11.34MohammadAGlol
10:11.52RobbieThe1stAnd it charged fully again. It did surprise me somewhat
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10:24.22DocScrutinizerrumour has it that LiIon doesn't like freezing
10:25.15Venemogood morning
10:25.38DocScrutinizerand normal fridge is just fine and completely sufficient, you should pack it in a sealed bag though, preferably with a small bag of dryer
10:26.22psycho_oreosI win :P
10:26.54psycho_oreosI guess its one of those same techniques as dealing with recovering data from dying hard drives
10:32.26RobbieThe1stAFAIK, Lion simply doesn't react at lower temps; the colder you keep it, the less capacity/charge you lose. Down to the point at which it actually freezes.
10:38.31VenemoMohammadAG: ping
10:38.44MohammadAGpong
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10:42.34jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: nope
10:42.43RobbieThe1st?
10:43.57jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: freezing batteries kill them
10:44.07jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: that's why winter kills batteries
10:44.23jacekowskiwe service pedestrian counters for some company
10:44.35jacekowskiand after every single winter we have to replace all battery packs
10:44.57keriomethinks adding some sealing would help
10:46.15RobbieThe1stAround here, with temps going down to -10F, we haven't had any trouble. This includes lead-acid car batteries(Yes, the water can freeze if it's not acid enough, I suppose), lithium-ion phone batteries, and, of course, Alkaline primary cells (which shouldn't freeze at these temps
10:46.30RobbieThe1stNow, I don't dispute that batteries can freeze... but it's all the temps
10:47.05jacekowskii think your definition of cold is different to mine
10:47.09RobbieThe1stAnd - provided it's not being used - Below freezing, in the 10f to -10f range for a few weeks doesn't seem to hurt
10:47.25keriofor me cold is 16C° or lower
10:47.26kerio:3
10:47.57jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: use SI units
10:48.04RobbieThe1stI don't know em well.
10:48.13jacekowski0 freezing
10:48.50RobbieThe1st32F = freezing. But I'm not exactly sure what -10f is. etc.
10:48.58RobbieThe1stSure, I could look it up, but meh.
10:49.10kerio-23
10:49.13kerioHOLY FUCK
10:49.15DocScrutinizeryeah exactly, meh
10:49.40thresh-23 is ok
10:49.43threshcelsius
10:49.49RobbieThe1stAnd I'm saying I have a number of batteries(of several types), which have been at that temperature for quite a while without issue.
10:49.51thresh-30 way way worse
10:50.00keriowhere the fuck do you all guys live? D:
10:50.08keriowithout heating i'm at 19.5°C at the moment
10:50.08DocScrutinizerthere for sure is a reason for LiIon manufs to forbid charging and even discharging at high rate LiIon @ < -20°C
10:50.13RobbieThe1stNE Washington, USA
10:50.21MohammadAGI envy you all
10:50.26threshMoscow
10:50.30MohammadAGI want subzero temps too
10:50.34keriorome, italy :3
10:50.39RobbieThe1stDoc: I don't disagree there. Storage on the other hand...
10:50.54zutesmog0°C is cold for me ;-) Two weeks ago it was 44°C and 46°C where I am ;-)
10:50.58MohammadAGmother nature's racist
10:51.48threshwants his +25 all year long
10:52.27jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: so where does water boil on your scale?
10:52.35jacekowski100C on mine
10:52.37DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: read manuf's datasheet, about allowable and *recommended* storing temperature. And esp about storage time and temeprature for which they guarantee cell will survive
10:52.44RobbieThe1st200-something.
10:52.57BCMMFahrenheit is amazing in several ways
10:52.58jacekowskisi is so much better
10:53.00jacekowski0 and 100
10:53.16jacekowskikelvin is nice as well
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10:53.23MohammadAGF is stupid
10:53.24jacekowskibecause 0K means 0
10:53.32jacekowskias in you can't go any lower
10:53.33BCMMfirstly, IIRC it's calibrated so that 0-100 covers somebody's idea of what sensible outdoors temperatures are possible
10:53.34RobbieThe1stWhatever; I know F for personal temperature. I know C - barely - in the 35-40 range
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10:53.46BCMMsecondly, *it's nonlinear*.
10:53.49MohammadAGjacekowski, you can, just reinvent physics
10:53.53BCMMit is a nonlinear temperature scale...
10:54.10DocScrutinizerBCMM: BS
10:54.32RobbieThe1stDocScrutinizer: I assume it's made by Samsung, but I've no clue where to find a datasheet
10:54.34BCMMDocScrutinizer: at what?
10:54.44DocScrutinizerat "nonlinear"
10:55.39BCMMhuh, i may be wrong about that
10:55.49BCMMis there another temperature scale people used to use?
10:55.58DocScrutinizernone of the conversation algorithms I used or seen so far had any nonlinear component for Fahrenheit
10:56.25jonwilI prefer Celcius
10:56.33VenemoBCMM: fahrenheit is linear, it's just weird
10:56.34trx2celsius ftw
10:56.53Venemoyes, celsius is sensible
10:57.28BCMMCelsius is a nice compromise between everyday practicality and scientific usefulness
10:57.45BCMM(in that it is SI for temperature-difference calculations)
10:57.49alteregocelcius isn't that sensible, they set 0 to the temperature that some liquid solidifies at sea level ll
10:57.52jacekowskito be hones even kelvin is better for everyday use
10:58.09BCMMalso, having a very clear idea of when your driveway will be icy is useful
10:58.16jacekowskialterego: the most common liquid on planet
10:58.34trx2kelvin isnt for everyday use, when do you use apsolute zero ?
10:58.41alteregojacekowski: sure, it's just not a "universal" scale though
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10:58.58alteregoKelvin is more, well, "scientific"
10:59.23BCMMyeah, there are actually a fair number of people who live at sufficient altitude that boiling water is substantially cooler than 100C
10:59.35alteregoI don't even know where fahr comes from :)
10:59.37zutesmogwater freezing and water boiling are good every day comparisons that people can relate too.  Kelvin isn't as helpful for everyday use.
10:59.40jacekowskiwell, at 8000m it goes down to under 90C
11:00.06trx2well then count from -172
11:00.07zutesmogeven so 90°C is still in a reasonable range from 0°C
11:00.15SpeedEvilalterego: It's the lowest temperature you can get my mixing ice and salt at 0F, with 100F being the temperature of a dogs arse.
11:00.16trx2doesnt matter..
11:00.16jacekowskizutesmog: 273k for 0C and 373k for 100C
11:00.16BCMMif i recall correctly, freezing point doesn't move so dramatically
11:00.31alteregoSpeedEvil: :D
11:00.32trx2SpeedEvil lol
11:00.37zutesmogbut people can remember 0 and 100 far more easily
11:00.41MohammadAGK is C+273
11:00.44jacekowskizutesmog: same unit as c just different offset
11:00.59BCMMSpeedEvil: is that literally true? i know 100F is well-known as an attainable but unhealthy internal temperature.
11:01.02zutesmogI know, but explain it to my dad or my wife ;-)
11:01.09alteregocelcius is just more "metric" ..
11:01.24SpeedEvilBCMM: I vaguely remember it is. Google does in fact say 100Fish is the body temp of dogs
11:02.02alteregoI have to say though, this is probably the most boring conversation I've had to wake up to.
11:02.12MohammadAGyou can start with your kids zutesmog
11:02.13BCMMSpeedEvil: that's amazing. i'm creating a competitor to SI, featuring more dogs-arse related measurements
11:02.23MohammadAGso in three generations, they'll be using K
11:02.29zutesmogI have and they will pull me up on everything.
11:02.33alteregothinks it'll be one of those days. even tmo looks boring
11:02.42BCMMthe unit of length will be the average distance between a greyhound's arse and the ground
11:02.47MohammadAGof course, in three generations they'll find a way to go lower than 0K, and we'll be idiots
11:03.02alteregoBCMM: horse actually :D
11:03.17BCMMalterego: which?
11:03.17zutesmogbut then you will have popped into an alternate universe.
11:03.24alteregoMohammadAG: scientifically impossible, it's absolute vacuum.
11:03.39MohammadAGalterego, they'll find a way around that :P
11:03.52alteregoBCMM: imperial units of length, some came from measuring horses.
11:03.55MohammadAG(And I know my physics, but do you know your sarcasm?)
11:04.00BCMMalterego: absolute vacuum?
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11:04.11MohammadAGat 0K atoms can't move
11:04.14BCMMalterego: did they? i know imperial units of power did
11:04.26alteregoBCMM: yeah, hands or something
11:04.39alteregoI think a furlong too ..
11:04.40BCMMalterego: definition of a "horsepower" is something like 150% of the power provided by a mine-pony
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11:04.59MohammadAGPonies!
11:05.11alteregoYeah, hp was invented by a marketting firm trying to sell cars over horses :)
11:05.21BCMMalterego: (as determined by G.P.E.=mgh and looking at the loads they carry up from the mine)
11:05.26zutesmogshould have been pony power!
11:05.41BCMM* a totally invented factor for how much more power a horse has
11:05.45MohammadAGzutesmog, that's the power provided by a unicorn
11:05.49alteregoBCMM: really? I just thoyught the arranged a tug-of-war between cars and horses
11:06.03zutesmogor a sparkly pony with fairy wings
11:06.39BCMM(i don't mean definition, btw - i mean original measurements it's based on)
11:07.23SpeedEvilalterego: Actually, no.
11:07.41SpeedEvilalterego: It was developed by stationary steam engine makers. Way before cars.
11:07.47*** part/#maemo thresh (~popa3d@videolan/developer/thresh)
11:07.49SpeedEvilhits alterego with a walking beam.
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11:08.18alteregoSpeedEvil: yeah, I actually had a feeling it was steam power that bought the measurement in.
11:08.49alteregocontemplates how he can get join tables to work with QSqlTableModel's
11:09.07MohammadAGalterego, paypal?
11:09.14*** join/#maemo WellMux_ (~mika@e81-197-67-195.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
11:09.19alteregoMohammadAG: what?
11:09.45alteregoMohammadAG: still have 0 donations :)
11:09.55MohammadAGfor the paypal app?
11:10.16alteregoMohammadAG: no, columbus.
11:11.24DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf p62 cell spec, p64 >>(4) Long term storage
11:11.26DocScrutinizer: -20 ～ +35℃ within 90 days (Shipped conditions)<<  p65 >>6 Operating Temperature (Charge) 0～+45 ℃<<  >>2 Operating Temperature (Discharge) -20～+60 ℃<<  Also see p69 (1) storage. >>... Storage in unsuitable condition (temperature, humidity, etc.) may reduce initial performance ...<<
11:11.41alteregoI'm not sure our paypal app is going to be secure enough to warrant making it :/
11:12.42DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: it's for sure no good idea to store a battery at limits of allowable storing conditions and far outside of allowable operation conditions
11:12.44*** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod)
11:12.51cos^is there something wrong with vcs.maemo.org's certificates? try git clone https://vcs.maemo.org/git/mardrone
11:13.04cos^at least i get error: server certificate verification failed. CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt CRLfile: none while accessing https://vcs.maemo.org/git/mardrone/info/refs
11:13.31MohammadAGalterego, keep in mind the community isn't smart enough to change paypal addresses
11:13.46MohammadAGAnd the part of it which is, would only do it as a PoC
11:13.50DocScrutinizeralso very remarkable: >>Do not storage the battery as fully charge state.<<
11:13.53RobbieThe1stSo, it's rated for -20C. This further proves my point that storing it in a residential freezer(inside a bag) is safe
11:14.21SpeedEvilSpeaking personally - I strore all my li-ions in the freezer.
11:14.27alteregoMohammadAG: It's something that needs to be properly thought out, and DocScrutinizer ripped the idea appart yesterdat :)
11:14.35RobbieThe1stAdmittedly, what happened to one of mine(leaving it at -25C, outside) wasn't optimal... but it still worked. Which is good.
11:14.36SpeedEvilThey have very, very little (measured) degradation when I do this.
11:15.20MohammadAGalterego, just make it closed source
11:15.25DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: BS, see my comment last posts
11:15.49MohammadAGencrypt the binary
11:15.55RobbieThe1st0C is at the limits of storable condition?
11:15.58MohammadAGthen load it through another encrypted binary
11:16.07RobbieThe1stI thought it was about the middle...
11:16.07alteregoMohammadAG: that's a possibility, but nothing is fool proof.
11:16.11SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: that's at the liits for charging.
11:16.15DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: it's "rated" for 90days @ -20°C, where the damage done to cell is 'only' some 20%
11:16.46MohammadAGalterego, then how does the paypal app on the iPhone work?
11:16.49RobbieThe1stSpeedEvil: According to the PDF, it's -20c for long-term storage
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11:17.17RobbieThe1stDocScrutinizer: Real-world tests say different.
11:17.26DocScrutinizeruhuh
11:17.47kerioi want a battery that works at 0K
11:18.21SpeedEvilI actually do want a rechargable battery that is safe for 140C.
11:18.23MohammadAGkerio, here, have mine
11:18.26RobbieThe1stI think leaving a battery for over a year and still having quite a bit of charge left over is good enough.
11:18.29BCMMchemistry doesn't work at 0K.
11:18.48BCMM(no collisions == reactions basically do no occur)
11:19.06kerioMohammadAG: yay
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11:19.15keriois it safe at 15000K too?
11:19.56DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: sure - go ahead. Store your cells at abs min temp allowed for 90 days. Drive always at exact abs max alcohol level allowed. always smoke exactly the number of cigarettes that statistically shorten your live no more than 10 years
11:20.11alteregoMohammadAG: I'll spend some time on it this weekend :)
11:20.30MohammadAGkerio, yeah sure
11:20.31DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: WTF?? ""aving quite a bit of charge left over is good enough"" ?
11:20.32GNUtoo|laptophttp://pastebin.com/2vhb9uF8
11:20.44MohammadAGalterego, :)
11:20.44RobbieThe1stDocScrutinizer: Do you have any proof that storing it at 40F is less dangerous than 32F?
11:20.52kerioMohammadAG: is it infinite?
11:20.54GNUtoo|laptopis there a header?
11:21.05MohammadAGkerio, more infinite than the eye can see
11:21.29alteregoshower, bbiab
11:21.46MohammadAGkerio, you just got mindraped
11:21.47RobbieThe1stDocScrutinizer: I grabbed the battery out of the unheated section of our shop/garage. Put it in a phone. Turned it on, and it showed maximum battery bars.
11:22.14DocScrutinizermeh, sorry. This discussion gets about as annoying as has been the argueing with Andy about "why do we need OVP? USB chargers are rated @max 6V and this chip has a limit of 6.5V where it emits smoke""
11:22.23RobbieThe1stThis was after at least 2 years of not being charged, and being stored in the freezer for a year.
11:22.23kerioMohammadAG: but... i can't see the energy in my battery with my eyes...
11:22.45DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: that's absolutely irrelevant
11:22.49alteregokerio: multimeter
11:22.57DocScrutinizerand I really CBA to explain to you why
11:22.59alteregowanders off.
11:23.02GNUtoo|laptopjacekowski, ^^^ ( http://pastebin.com/2vhb9uF8 )
11:23.17RobbieThe1stWhat it means is that: 1. It hasn't self-discharged. 2. It hasn't shorted.
11:23.42RobbieThe1stIn addition, SpeedEvil puts them in his freezer without issue.
11:24.09RobbieThe1stAnd he says that they have very little measured degradation.
11:24.27DocScrutinizerpicks out a 2year old completely sucked empty alkaline from his waste box and probes voltage - ""see, it still has 1.45V""
11:25.27RobbieThe1stBut, in this case, we are running a load off it - so it's not just phantom charge. I could, I suppose, do some tests to it..
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11:25.47DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: go to matsuhita and tell them you know how they canimprove their cells, with ZERO effort, you'll tell them if they pay you say $20k
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11:26.34jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: ekhm
11:26.44DocScrutinizerI bet they are pleased to hear all their tests they did to do proper specifications were just BS, and you were better with your garage and freezer
11:26.54jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: your secondary image can only be 110kb long
11:26.56RobbieThe1stI'm not saying anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that it appears to work, I'm going to do it, and I can't see any proof that it's not working.
11:27.03GNUtoo|laptopah ok too bad
11:27.09RobbieThe1stYou seem to forget that the manual itself agrees with me :\
11:27.15GNUtoo|laptopI'm obligated to go barebox instead of uboot then
11:27.18RobbieThe1stTheir tests say it's fine.
11:27.30GNUtoo|laptopor could uboot fit in 110k?
11:27.34RobbieThe1stOf course, we don't know what the optimum temperature(within that range) is.
11:27.36jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: nope
11:27.39GNUtoo|laptopwith USB console
11:27.40GNUtoo|laptopok
11:27.44jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: uboot is almost twice that size
11:27.45RobbieThe1stBut it's probably near the low end.
11:27.49jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: with nothing on
11:27.49DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: please stop telling BS! I explained to you in epic lemgth that the spec in manual is for NINETY DAYS
11:28.02GNUtoo|laptopbarebox is a lot smaller
11:28.13jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: but it's not working, isn't it?
11:28.14DocScrutinizerand they even tolerate degradation of cell chemistry and capacity by doing this
11:28.20GNUtoo|laptopI didn't try
11:28.22GNUtoo|laptopI'll try
11:28.27GNUtoo|laptopbut the issue is the following:
11:28.30RobbieThe1stSo, what proof do -you- have that whatever temperature you like is better than 0C?
11:28.31GNUtoo|laptophow can I know it works
11:28.32DocScrutinizerand you claim it's the optimum to store LiIon
11:28.43GNUtoo|laptopmaybe blink the led?
11:29.04DocScrutinizerMEH, now he's suddenly at 0°C
11:29.29DocScrutinizerwhile a minute ago he's been talking about -20 and evem -10F whatever that is
11:29.42DocScrutinizersorry that's just too boring
11:29.43RobbieThe1st-10F = -25C. That's the lowest I've ever had it.
11:29.49frals-10f = -23c
11:29.56GNUtoo|laptophttp://pastebin.com/2zaRVcM0
11:30.05RobbieThe1stAlso, if you look up, for several pages I've been trying to state "residential freezer"
11:30.17RobbieThe1stwhich is going to be around 0C. or 32F.
11:30.35RobbieThe1stBut you wouldn't listen.
11:30.45fralsarent freezers usually below 0C?
11:30.48DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: you can stop it, I'm leaving. It's really too pointless a "discussion"
11:31.18RobbieThe1st*sigh*.
11:32.27RobbieThe1stOh. Maby you're right. Perhaps some are colder.
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11:34.58GNUtoo|laptopjacekowski, http://pastebin.com/2zaRVcM0
11:35.21eichihello. i have a problem with the maemo5 build in email client. sometimes, i'm forced to use gprs. now, if i try to send some data with email, I get an "send failed" error. i'm very shure, this is just some kind of timeout. but there is no option for that
11:35.28jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: yes
11:35.36jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: you need correct header for it to work
11:35.42GNUtoo|laptopok
11:35.43jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: otherwise xloader will not load it
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11:35.48GNUtoo|laptopah ok nice
11:36.06jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: you have 4 byte jump executed in ARM mode
11:36.08GNUtoo|laptopso I look for info on the classic x-loader
11:36.10fralseichi: have you configured the correct outgoing server for your gprs?
11:36.12jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: no
11:36.18jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: nokia xloader is different
11:36.19GNUtoo|laptopand it would apply to nokia?
11:36.21GNUtoo|laptopah ok
11:36.22jacekowskino
11:36.29jacekowskiyou need 4 bytes for jump in arm mode
11:36.38GNUtoo|laptopok
11:36.56jacekowskiand then NOLOScnd
11:37.11jacekowskiand xloader is looking for that NOLOScnd
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11:37.39GNUtoo|laptopok I see that
11:37.44GNUtoo|laptopin ../secondary-RX-51,2217,2218,2219,2220,2120-1.4.14.9+0m5
11:37.50eichifrals: is there a seperate gprs config? with umts, it works fine
11:38.07fralsdepends on your service provider what smtp you can use
11:38.40eichibut not depends on umts vs. gprs?
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11:38.47fralsshouldnt no
11:39.00eichione moment, try to send a empty mail
11:39.23SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: however, the spec in the manual is likely to say 90 days, without specifying - as is likely - the fact that that's at the upper limit only.
11:39.24GNUtoo|laptopjacekowski, I copy the 4 bytes from ../secondary-RX-51,2217,2218,2219,2220,2120-1.4.14.9+0m5 ?
11:40.27jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: no
11:41.01jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: these 4 bytes are just jump to just after NOLOScnd
11:41.23DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that's no limit of any kind, that's simply the test duration, and cell chemistry won't suffer >xx% loss of max capacity, and not >xy increase in impedance etc, during these 90 days
11:42.30DocScrutinizerit however doesn't imply that after 160 days the degrading eeffects are exactly 2 times as much - more likely they are way higher
11:42.52DocScrutinizer180*
11:43.12SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: no - however it doesn't imply that the upper and lower limits are the same, or for the same reasons.
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11:43.48DocScrutinizerare the same as what? upper for sure is not same as lower
11:43.50SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: For example, the upper limit may be for degradation reasons, and the lower one may be due to the electrolyte freezing being undesirable. Which will not occur at -20C.
11:45.26GNUtoo|laptopbut the address would be the same, right?
11:46.15GNUtoo|laptopelse I could do it manually, "compiling with my head" the b address thing but I wouldn't know at which address to branch
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11:46.51GNUtoo|laptopbasically it works like this right: bootrom->copy xloader in the already-initialized 64k ram
11:46.54DocScrutinizermeh, I really will stop now agruaing about silly stupid statements like "store your battery at -20°C, it's optimum and just the limit of MAX temp range as in datasheet" - every child knows you should stay away from limits, and sweet spot never is at limits
11:46.55GNUtoo|laptopand execute it
11:47.01GNUtoo|laptopbut then?
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11:47.10GNUtoo|laptopI should read xloader sources
11:47.51TriztN900hates when widgets disappear by itself
11:47.53DocScrutinizerand I need no evidence for this common sense
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11:52.56GNUtoo|laptopbecause NAND isn't memory mapped
11:53.14GNUtoo|laptopit should have code for reading nand
11:53.49felluhmm
11:54.01GNUtoo|laptops/it/so it/
11:54.19felluyea
11:58.20eichifrals: realy seems, that i cant send smtp via gprs. even a empty mail fails -.-
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12:01.33SpeedEvilmost providers will block port 25.
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12:17.06SpeedEvilOooh - neat! http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/legos/legos.html
12:17.12SpeedEvilwonders if he has enough lego
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12:19.53Arkenoioops. mycontacts eats up to 85Mb vm
12:20.13SpeedEvilYou don't care about VM
12:20.18SpeedEvil(generally)
12:20.33SpeedEvilhttp://www.selenic.com/smem/
12:20.48SpeedEvilShows unique memory per-process, and how much shared.
12:21.00SpeedEvilRSS overstates this - for example - RSS includes libc.
12:21.37SpeedEvilBut libc is multiply mapped by all the processes in the system, so if it's a couple of meg - it's only reasonable to apportion 20K to each process if there are 100 running.
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12:24.01Arkenoianyways i feel my phone is much slower with mycontacts, it's a shame as it is extremely useful thing
12:28.28RST38hArkanoid: Found the reason for the slowdown?
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12:32.31MohammadAGRST38h, it's closed source :p
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12:35.43ZogGlardman, ping
12:36.20lardmanZogG: pong
12:37.08alteregoAdding the last major v1 feature for Columbus :)
12:41.42alteregoI'm thinking of putting a donations table up on the website (when I make it).
12:41.58alteregoSo people can see how generous, or not, others' are.
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12:43.08ArkenoiRST38h, appears that if i disable mycontacts, it behaves much better
12:43.43RST38hArkenoi: Kill the mycontacts and forget about them then
12:43.58RST38hArkenoi: Checked their memory footprint with HTOP?
12:44.10ZogGalterego it would be nice to have donations page on communities pages with list of apps and links for donations so who ever wants can choose app and dev in one place i think
12:44.40alteregoZogG: this is just an app specific highscore table.
12:45.07alteregoA community page would be cool, we could knock one up on the wiki
12:45.47ZogGyeah just a table. app | dev |donation link. and if it's possible |donated
12:46.39Arkenoionly 10% of vsz is shared
12:55.09Arkenoitv-b-gone app, great, i can forget about having the dongle with me and replacing batteries in it
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12:58.35SpeedEvilThe n900 IR sucs though.
12:58.50Arkenoiyes
12:59.16SpeedEvilWell - actually it blows softly.
12:59.26SpeedEvilIt can't suck - that's another problem
12:59.28Arkenoistill cannot understand what prevents pda and smartphone vendors from installing really powerful IR
12:59.34SpeedEvilArkenoi: $
12:59.43ArkenoiSpeedEvil, it is dirt cheap
12:59.47SpeedEvilSure.
13:00.00ShadowJKI wonder if the ir is weak or if the modulation is just off
13:00.03SpeedEvil$.1 extra means that they don't have $.1*500K
13:00.09SpeedEvilWhich isn't too trivial
13:00.16Arkenoiand lose vital functionality
13:00.39Arkenoijust add $.1 to the rpice
13:00.42Arkenoiprice
13:00.49SpeedEvil$.25 or so.
13:01.30SpeedEvilAnd those 'just one more' features add up, and soon you find that you have a 4Kg phone costing $18000.
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13:13.45yaccArkenoi, it's so VITAL that they don't even provide any software to use by default, right?
13:14.09yaccArkenoi, what is VITAL to you is not necessary what is VITAL to pointy haired weirdos ;)
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13:35.22TermanaHappy Australia Day to any fellow Australians!
13:36.41MohammadAGand no Happy Australia day for the rest of us?
13:36.43MohammadAGracist!
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13:39.45TermanaMohammadAG, No, because everyone else knows that it really should be Happy Invasion Day
13:40.31ArkenoiNew latitude app. Still no option to turn GPS on for a brief period of time
13:48.11fralsArkenoi: for most consumers IR isn't "vital functionality"
13:51.41alteregoWhat's "latitude app" ?
13:52.37alteregoArkenoi: why do you want to have gps on for a brief period?
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13:54.43lardmanalterego: Google Latitude
13:54.55alteregoOh
13:55.05lardmanthat's the name of the service, not a command to use a search engine ;)
13:55.18Arkenoialterego, because it is too battery consuming, and small lag or not quite accurate position on ok. Actually i'd prefer using cell towers for positioning and enabling GPS only if the position was obviously changed.
13:55.22alteregoYeah, I vaguely remember that
13:55.41alteregoArkenoi: to do what?
13:55.52Arkenoialterego, to share it
13:56.17alteregoOh, well, why not just enable gps when you want to share position?
13:56.28alteregoLike how it works for facebook
13:57.11marnanelWhat does it mean if I can compile a program in x86 scratchbox, but when I try to do so in armel scratchbox, it complains about assembler instructions and falls over like this? http://pastebin.com/r9WBVDV3 (It can compile some code, fwiw. But this bit gives it some trouble.)
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13:57.44lcukmarnanel, make clean?
13:58.12lcuki get similar when I flip between targets and forget to clean the source
13:58.18BCMM_marnanel: make clean; it may be getting confused by x86 .o files
13:58.56lcukcheers for new rfk also
13:59.24BCMM_i dunno if it's the right thing to do, but i've set up my qt project with a symlinked src directory so i don't waste time on make clean
13:59.41marnanellcuk, BCMM_: oh duh.  thanks, I thought I was going crazy.
14:00.49Arkenoialterego, because i want it to stay in my pocket and sharing my position continuously
14:01.01BCMM_i.e. program-arm/src is symlinked to program-x86/src, and binaries live in program-x86/ and program-arm/ rather than poluting the source directory with platform-specific binaries
14:01.12BCMM_is there a nicer way to do that?
14:01.17marnanelyeah, distclean fixed it
14:01.19marnanelthanks folks
14:02.22BCMM_having seperate directories means not rebulding the entirity of the x86 version every time you test it on the device
14:04.07alteregoArkenoi: and sharing with what service?
14:04.29Arkenoialterego, google latitude
14:04.41alteregoRight,
14:04.48alteregoWell, why don't you write an app to do it?
14:04.56alteregoQt Mobility APIs are quite easy to use.
14:05.03alteregoAnd linking with a webservice is easy enough
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14:07.19[DrkGUNMAN-N900]oh the horrors of messing with powervr.ini.....
14:07.48[DrkGUNMAN-N900]taken long enough to get up and running again!
14:08.44[DrkGUNMAN-N900]hildon definitely seems more sluggish since the reflash
14:11.22[DrkGUNMAN-N900]does anyone know how to re-enable shortcut keys? ctrl+shift+x is no longer working!
14:11.42Jaffa[DrkGUNMAN-N900]: Ah, the magical "I'll 'turn on' PowerVR and it'll be better" switch. Why are Nokia so stupid as to leave it off, eh?!
14:11.46Jaffaasks MohammadAG...
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14:13.05[DrkGUNMAN-N900]I was due a reflash anyway :) thought i'd have a look at it.
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14:15.12merlin1991[DrkGUNMAN-N900], gconf-schemas --register hildon-desktop-keys.schemas + reboot should bring back the default shortcuts
14:15.52[DrkGUNMAN-N900]thank you merlin1991
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14:21.56alteregoBloody apt-worker getting in the way of my development as usual ..
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14:29.49MohammadAGmuhaha, patched vumeter to make the keyboard a VU
14:29.57MohammadAGthanks merlin1991 o
14:30.24merlin1991?
14:32.27alteregoMohammadAG: did a proper line count just now, columbus + libcolumbus + librxsupport + columbus-plugins-core = 11630 lines.
14:32.51alteregoAnd that's just source files, there's a little more with .desktop files debian packaging stuff etc, etc.
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14:38.56BCMM_alterego: what do you use for line-counting, btw?
14:39.23BCMM_i've seen something cleverer than wc, but can't recall its name
14:39.48BCMM_(i think it did things like ignore blank lines and count comments seperately and so on)
14:41.41alteregoBCMM_: find dir1 dir2 dir3 -name '*.cpp' -or -name '*.h' | xargs wc -l
14:51.27BCMM_oh, ok.
14:51.29BCMM_thanks
14:51.52edheldilBCMM:  you can leave out comments with grep
14:52.16MohammadAGshitty sony handycam
14:52.26MohammadAGI want the N8 back already :/
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14:55.03GNUtoo|laptopjacekowski, for the 4 byted does it do that:
14:55.09GNUtoo|laptopbootrom
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14:55.17GNUtoo|laptopread xloader from flash
14:55.33GNUtoo|laptopput it in the 64k of ram
14:55.35GNUtoo|laptopjump there
14:55.41GNUtoo|laptopso now xloader has control
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14:55.53GNUtoo|laptopxloader loads nolo or something else from flash
14:56.04GNUtoo|laptopput it somewhere(where?)
14:56.11GNUtoo|laptopand read the instruction
14:56.19GNUtoo|laptopthat is 32bit = 4 bytes
14:56.25GNUtoo|laptopthat contains a jump
14:56.34GNUtoo|laptoplike b address
14:56.59GNUtoo|laptopthat goes to where nolo or the something else is extracted?
14:57.04GNUtoo|laptops/?//
14:57.13GNUtoo|laptop+ an offset
14:57.38GNUtoo|laptopI bet I'm wrong somewhere
14:57.50GNUtoo|laptopbecause xload must initialize the ram, right?
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14:58.09GNUtoo|laptopbecause 64k is not enough for nolo
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14:58.29GNUtoo|laptopthat is to say, nolo can't be copied in the 64k
14:58.37GNUtoo|laptophmmm
14:58.44GNUtoo|laptopI'm surely missing something
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15:01.21RST38bisyawn
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15:03.39GNUtoo|laptopalso if NAND is not memory mapped, how can the CPU run uboot from it on other devices?
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15:04.25SpeedEvilIt can't.
15:04.43GNUtoo|laptopah, so how does it work
15:04.51GNUtoo|laptopyou have NOR+NAND on other devices?
15:04.55SpeedEvilThe stepping-stone loader on the CPU onboard ROM loads it and executes it.
15:05.03GNUtoo|laptopah ok
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15:05.53GNUtoo|laptopso cpu like imx31 should have a bootrom
15:05.59GNUtoo|laptopinteresting...
15:06.51SpeedEvilThere is a 48k? ROM inside the omap
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15:11.53MohammadAGisn't that what allows coldflashing?
15:12.21SpeedEvilyes.
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15:26.00jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: nope
15:26.09jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: rom loads nokia xloader
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15:27.25jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: omap rom starts at 0x0 and then it reads nannd
15:27.46jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: and it's reading xloader there with proper headers ( signatures and stuff )
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15:28.32jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: and xloader is loaded at 0x40208000
15:28.37GNUtoo|laptopok
15:28.47jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: than xloader loads nolo from nand
15:29.01jacekowskiGNUtoo|laptop: verifies if it has correct magic ( NOLOScnd )
15:29.28jacekowskiand if it has just jumps to 0x8040000
15:30.00GNUtoo|laptopok
15:30.09GNUtoo|laptopso what are the stuff that is before NOLOScnd
15:30.22jacekowskiit's just a jump
15:30.35GNUtoo|laptopto 0x8040000
15:30.38jacekowskino
15:30.50GNUtoo|laptopahhh
15:30.51GNUtoo|laptopI get it
15:30.55GNUtoo|laptopbasically
15:31.12jacekowskiNOLOScnd is at 0x8040004
15:31.12GNUtoo|laptopxload jumps to 0x8040000
15:31.27GNUtoo|laptopbut  if it started with NOLOScnd
15:31.34GNUtoo|laptopit wouldn't be able to execute the content
15:31.36GNUtoo|laptopso....
15:31.45jacekowskibasicaly it's just that there is only one instruction before nolo magic
15:31.52jacekowskiso unless you want to fuck yourself up
15:31.58jacekowskiyou have to jump to place where you have more space
15:32.01jacekowskiafter that magic
15:32.14GNUtoo|laptopit's just for skipping the magic right?
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15:33.05GNUtoo|laptopso it doesn't execute the magic
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15:35.40jacekowskiyes
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15:50.44SpeedEvilWoo - cheapness.
15:50.53SpeedEvilT-mobiles 'blackberry' SIM works.
15:51.05SpeedEvil10 quid topup for 6 months 'free' internet.
15:51.21SpeedEvil500M/mo only - but, it's a backup SIM.
15:51.25SpeedEvil(uk)
15:51.49SpeedEvilFree SIM + 10 quid topup, and it just works.
15:53.22nidOrly?
15:53.52nidOdamn, I missed a trick there then, recently got a 3 sim for my tablet, that only gives me like 100MB free when I top it up :(
15:54.42psycho_oreosisn't 3 a subsidiary of vodaphone over there?
15:56.32kerio3 here gives you 3gb for 5€/month
15:56.38keriowell, 100mb/day for 5€/month
15:58.14SpeedEvilnidO: The voice rates are pretty bad.
15:58.23SpeedEvilnidO: But I rarely make calls.
15:58.42nidOyeah doesnt concern me, the sim in my tablet's for data only :P
15:58.48nidOshame I didnt spot that deal :(
15:59.22SpeedEvilAlso - if you buy before FEb - you can get a PAYG SIM - and add the 20 quid 6 month internet booster, with a 1G cap
16:03.03nidOhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=927908 is quite astonishing
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16:23.16keriohaha
16:23.30kerio"Because of a factory problem, there was no N900 in the box"
16:23.42MohammadAGhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7ltX3Wtok I hate sony handycams (also, video blocked in Germany by youtube)
16:23.55MohammadAGneed a way to find it more interesting, it's kinda boring right now
16:24.36SpeedEvilkerio: Damn - I need to use that line for ebay.
16:24.54MohammadAGI'd skip the first acoustic part
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16:44.15merlin1991nice MohammadAG :)
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17:11.24alteregokerio: you'd think they'd notice from the weight...
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17:17.50chem|stso now i need to contact that technical labratory to send my device back to me... insurance pays 220eur
17:18.22chem|st+o
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17:29.24pupnikGenial:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBT4UhT_nIA  Staatsverschuldung mal einfach erklärt
17:29.26MohammadAGhah, keyboardless N9-01 rumor
17:29.38*** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.59.113.223)
17:29.39pupnikdevboard+screen running meego...
17:29.55pupnikthe bloggers are getting antsy at nokia
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17:38.58jacekowskiMohammadAG: that thing i asked you to test
17:39.10jacekowskiMohammadAG: after testing it on emu
17:39.24jacekowskiMohammadAG: it looks like it's real nolo console
17:39.27jacekowskiMohammadAG: but on serial port
17:39.56MohammadAGjacekowski, I guess there's no way to export that over USB?
17:40.06jacekowskinope
17:40.13jacekowskiwell, there is
17:40.15jacekowskibut not easyway
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17:45.15GNUtoo|laptophmmm
17:45.30GNUtoo|laptopI wonder what's the easiest led-debugging like thing
17:45.51GNUtoo|laptopI bet having serial without soldering is difficult
17:47.15GNUtoo|laptopmaybe the vibrator
17:47.27MohammadAGjacekowski, how easy?
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17:58.48alteregoGNUtoo|laptop: not really, you just need to mould a connector that can sit under the battery.
17:59.13GNUtoo|laptopyes the problem is that I've nothing to do that
17:59.19GNUtoo|laptopmaybe I could try like this:
17:59.23GNUtoo|laptopI make a PCB
17:59.33GNUtoo|laptopwith soldered cables that ends with solder balls
17:59.36GNUtoo|laptop?
18:00.04alteregoErm ..
18:01.14alteregoI'd just use some kind of glue or solidifying gel, make a mould that'll fit into the pay comfortably, then insert contact pins and cable.
18:01.31GNUtoo|laptopah good idea
18:01.59alteregoTest the process on an old handset first
18:02.13GNUtoo|laptopI've an idea
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18:02.57GNUtoo|laptopI take an eraser
18:03.06alteregoI did a similar thing for an old Garmin handheld gps, used silicon liquid to stop the glue sticking to the pcb, then injected glue in with a heat glue gun.
18:03.08GNUtoo|laptopand put cables etc...inside
18:03.42alteregoThat may work, though erasers have a tendency to fall apart.
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18:08.16alteregobbl
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18:27.57MohammadAGit's quiet in here today
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18:33.17blue_led_@mohammad : switch to mhd
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18:50.53gnutooalterego, I failed with eraser
18:51.04gnutoo*it doesn't fall apart
18:51.18alterego:)
18:51.39gnutoo*the pin hole is exactly on top of the rx pin
18:51.49gnutoo*it fits well
18:51.53gnutoobut for an unknow reason
18:51.57gnutooI've no voltage
18:54.51gnutooenable serial console  : set
18:54.55gnutooand serial console is set
18:55.00gnutooin 0xFFFF
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18:59.23gnutooI used that: http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/File:Nokia_n900_pinout.jpg
18:59.27gnutooI wonder if it's right
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18:59.45gnutoobecause http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking doesn't match
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19:03.15gnutoojacekowski, has serial right?
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19:07.21franz__uh, just curious, anyone here ever tried testing gnash on maemo?
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19:18.22gnutooalterego, what's the exact reason of the 100k limit for the nolo partition?
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19:22.12jacekowskignutoo: ?
19:22.25jacekowskignutoo: what is the problem?
19:23.03jacekowskignutoo: use nokia flasher
19:23.07gnutoojacekowski, I want a way to debug or see of the code work
19:23.15jacekowskiyeah
19:23.22jacekowskido you have way of connecting to these pads?
19:23.28gnutooyes but I failed
19:23.39jacekowskiwhat are you using to connect to them
19:23.39gnutooI've some eraser cuted with a hole inside
19:23.49gnutooand a wire that go trough the hole
19:24.03gnutooI put a tape on all that
19:24.03jacekowskiand where does it go after that?
19:24.10gnutooI put the battery
19:24.23gnutooand mesure pin voltage between microsd slot and the wire
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19:24.31gnutoomicrosd slot is ground
19:24.50gnutooI'll restart explaining from the beginning:
19:25.00gnutoo*I've no way to findout if barebox works
19:25.00jacekowskiehh
19:25.11jacekowskibut where is your cable going after that
19:25.15jacekowskistraight into rs232?
19:25.19jacekowskior you have level shifter
19:25.23gnutoojacekowski, no, to DMM
19:25.35gnutooDMM say 0V
19:25.39jacekowskiand what do you expect to get
19:25.42jacekowskithat's correct
19:25.53gnutoo3.3V
19:25.57gnutooor something like that
19:26.17jacekowskiunless your barebox talks serial
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19:26.23jacekowskithen you will get nothing
19:26.28gnutooI've 0v even with nolo
19:26.40gnutoowith serial enabled(0xffff)
19:26.48jacekowskiuse nokia flasher
19:26.51gnutooeven under GNU/Linux with microcom
19:26.51jacekowskinot 0xffff
19:26.51gnutoook
19:27.09jacekowskiand what sort of dmm you've got?
19:27.15gnutooa cheap one
19:27.17jacekowskiis it real dmm
19:27.19gnutoono-name
19:27.19jacekowskior cheap one
19:27.20gnutooyes
19:27.26gnutooa real cheap one
19:27.28gnutoonot home made
19:27.39gnutooit works etc...
19:27.46gnutoo(the DMM)
19:28.00jacekowskithing is that it's just pulsed DC there
19:28.06jacekowskiand it's 2.6V max
19:28.22gnutoook
19:28.23jacekowskiso it goes to 2.6 for microseconds
19:28.28jacekowskitake a look at
19:28.30gnutooahhh
19:28.49jacekowskihmm
19:28.56jacekowskii'm just reading what you said before
19:28.58jacekowski<PROTECTED>
19:29.00gnutoook
19:29.03jacekowskithat pinout is for rapuyama
19:29.05gnutoois that correct?
19:29.11jacekowskisort of
19:29.14gnutoorapuyama???
19:29.16jacekowskiif you want to talk to rapuyama
19:29.21jacekowskiand you don't want to talk to rapuyama
19:29.37alteregoAre we still talking about the pads under the batterY?
19:29.44gnutooyes
19:30.10jacekowskiyou want to talk to main processor
19:30.14alteregoThere are connections for serial (TTL), USB & rapuyamna?
19:30.18jacekowskihttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking
19:30.19gnutooahh that's for the baseband
19:30.40jacekowskiand what is on that port
19:30.41jacekowskihttp://img36.imageshack.us/i/teki.png/
19:30.43jacekowskiis that
19:30.49jacekowskiwhich i measured myself btw
19:30.59gnutoook
19:31.10gnutooI saw that http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/File:Nokia_n900_pinout.jpg and http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking didn't match
19:31.18gnutoothat's why I wondered what to do
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19:33.20jacekowskiand be carefull
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19:33.24jacekowskithese pins are only 2.6V
19:33.30gnutoook
19:33.36jacekowskiand injecting more into them will probably damage your phone
19:33.37gnutoomax3232 can work with 2.6V?
19:33.44jacekowskinope
19:33.53gnutoowhat can work with 2.6v?
19:34.00jacekowskibc237
19:34.03jacekowskiiirc
19:34.12jacekowskisome mosfets can work as well
19:34.28gnutoook
19:34.35jacekowskibut you need one with low gate capacitance
19:35.07MohammadAGI thought no one knew what those pins were
19:35.33jacekowskiwell, you don't read wiki often enough
19:36.31MohammadAGof course I don't, wikis started having mediafire links
19:37.22*** join/#maemo jevin (~jevin@ee338pc2.ecn.purdue.edu)
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19:43.20gnutoobtw if you don't use flasher nor 0xFFFF can you run a bigger nolo/uboot?
19:43.42gnutoolike booting and acessing the NAND from GNU/Linux
19:44.42gnutooI wonder what to do
19:44.44*** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@AMontpellier-554-1-71-152.w92-145.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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19:45.01gnutooin one hand there is serial which require going to the elctronic shop, is risky etc...
19:45.16*** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@88-149-236-59.dynamic.ngi.it)
19:45.31gnutooin the other hand I've no idea on what's the best for an hello world led-blinking like stuff
19:46.09jacekowskignutoo: i never looked into that
19:46.18jacekowskignutoo: but it will require repartitioning nand at least
19:46.28gnutoook
19:46.41gnutoomaybe that's the best way
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20:05.22jacekowskibut i'm not sure about xloader
20:05.30jacekowskiand xloader can't be changed
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20:50.54mceplplease, help ... suddenly (I don't think I did anything to deserve it) pulseaudio stopped starting claiming there is missing /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf (which really isn't there). Any idea where I can find it and how it disappeared?
20:52.11ieatlintyou probably did do something to deserve it
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20:52.53mceplOK, let's abstaining from blaming and tell, where should I find it, which package I should reinstall?
20:54.09ieatlintone sec
20:54.32trumeedoes anybody has experience of lxp wifi patches?
20:54.40ieatlinthttp://tehinterweb.com/xpolicy.conf
20:55.15trumeeis it possible to patch the stock kernel with his patches, rather than using the power kernel?
20:55.46ieatlintmy dpkg says /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf is not part of any package, so i can't tell you what to reinstall
20:55.55mceplthanks
20:55.59ieatlintbut try copying the xpolicy.conf from my phone (as linked)
20:56.08mcepltrying
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21:12.37mceplhmm, doesn't work anyway, even after restart. I am afraid I see visit at the Nokia shop in my near future.
21:13.19gnutoomcepl, maybe reflash?
21:14.55corecodeanybody else have problems with xmpp video chat and broken video?
21:16.00mceplgnutoo: yeah, how? Is there some HOWTO around?
21:16.11*** join/#maemo me|kor (~melkor@88-134-30-112-dynip.superkabel.de)
21:16.34gnutoohttp://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing
21:16.44Sicelomcepl: ~flashing
21:16.55gnutoonote that it will remove all what you installed all your data etc....
21:16.59Sicelo~flashing
21:16.59infobotmethinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
21:17.17gnutooyou will get a fresh OS like when you bought it
21:17.48thomasjfoxanyone here runs rockbox and has a bluetooth headset + root access on his n900? ;)
21:18.05gnutoorockbox on n900?
21:18.22wmaronethomasjfox: I do
21:18.42gnutoohi DocScrutinizer do you have an idea on how to know if some code was executed(led blink etc...)
21:19.25thomasjfoxwmarone: Could you give the bluetooth headset support I wrote a quick shot? I would send you a new rockbox binary which should output debug information to the console once you press a button on the remote
21:19.43wmaroneremote?
21:19.48thomasjfoxwmarone: Ideally it should work out of the box
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21:20.04thomasjfoxwmarone: Doesn't your bluetooth headset feature buttons?
21:20.18wmaronevolume and a power/hangup/answer button
21:20.42thomasjfoxwmarone: What happens if you press them in the stock media player?
21:21.07wmaronenothing
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21:21.37thomasjfoxwmarone: Ah ok. So that won't work for the test
21:23.15thomasjfoxthanks anyway :)
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21:26.18gnutoowhere is lp5526 on the bus?
21:26.59pupnikdo not use sabayon linux :D
21:26.59DocScrutinizerlp5523
21:27.08DocScrutinizersee wiki, led
21:27.17gnutoook
21:27.45mceplSicelo: could I reflash without Windows (I am a Linux guy)?
21:28.09MohammadAGof course
21:28.12ieatlinthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Linux
21:28.13MohammadAGit's a linux device :P
21:28.19Sicelo:) well, flashing apparently works even better in Linux than in Windows
21:29.05MohammadAGUSB enumeration works better in Linux than in Windows :P
21:29.14mceplcool
21:29.20alteregoIt's just better.
21:29.32alteregoIF it works it's better on Linux, period :P
21:29.44alteregowaits patiently for Plan 9 mobile devices.
21:30.07ieatlintsomeone should do a plan 9 vs hurd review
21:30.37alteregoPlan 9 works :)
21:30.40alteregoHurd doesn't.
21:30.41MohammadAGalterego, if it works, then I doubt it's anything else
21:30.48ieatlintdefine works :P
21:31.03alteregowoarks-for-me :)
21:31.09alteregohurd-doesnt-work-for-me :)
21:31.35ieatlinthave you tried hurd?
21:31.43alteregoYup
21:31.59ieatlinthaha, ok :)
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21:32.24alteregotbh, I can't see anything over taking GNU/Linux for a while yet.
21:32.32alteregoAnd that's just because of hardware support.
21:32.40ieatlinthahaha http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
21:32.48alteregoYeah, that's what I tried :)
21:33.07alteregoDebian are actually quite into Hurd for some reason.
21:33.09ieatlintthat's up there with debian christian edition and hannah montanna ubuntu
21:33.14alteregoBut they're very GNU :)
21:33.39ieatlinti learnt everything i needed to know about GNU from automake
21:34.03ieatlintand seeing quotes and parts of speeches from stallman
21:34.04alteregoHahah
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21:36.45mceplis Hannah Montana Linux or GNU/Linux ? ;)
21:37.19mceplHannah Montana GNU/Linux would sound even better ... mishmash between Hannah Montana and hard-core geekism.
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21:38.29ieatlintyou can go read about it http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html
21:39.18korhojoaI'd like to see ReactOS on ARM
21:39.19alteregoOr, shakespear edition, Montagnu/linux
21:39.40alteregokorhojoa: not sure that'd work. That's the win clone isn't it?
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21:41.05gnutooI failed again
21:41.08gnutooI'm useless
21:41.24gnutooi2cset -y 0x2 0x32 0x17 0x10  => Error: Write failed
21:41.40gnutoo0x2 is from:
21:41.53*** join/#maemo Tokz (~tok@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe3cf800-71.dhcp.inet.fi)
21:42.01gnutoohttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED which says i2c-2
21:42.18gnutoo0x32 too ( 2-0032 )
21:42.25gnutoo0x16 is:
21:42.47korhojoaalterego: yeah
21:42.58korhojoawell, there's 7 for arm, so who knows
21:42.59gnutoo#define LP5523_REG_LED_PWM_BASE         0x16 + 1
21:43.00Tokzis posible to play .flac files with the default media player
21:43.35korhojoasorry, some 8 alpha
21:43.51gnutootaken from static void lp5523_set_brightnes
21:43.57gnutooin the kernel driver
21:44.10gnutooand the last value is an arbitrary value
21:44.14gnutoofor the brightness
21:44.19gnutooI'm tired of beeing tired
21:44.54Tokzis it posible to play .flac files with the default media player?
21:46.28Tokzsorry for repeating
21:46.43Tokzbut i typo'd the last one =)
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21:47.21alteregoTokz: I think that's possible if you install the extra decoder support from extras.
21:47.39Tokzcouldn't find one :|
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21:49.55Tokzany ideas?
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21:51.59gnutooTokz, install extras
21:52.02gnutooI'll go
21:57.11Tokzcouldn't find anything with the words "flac" or "decoder"
21:57.12Tokz:|
21:57.47andre__Tokz: maybe it's ogg-support
21:58.06Tokzokay
21:58.10Tokzwhat has ogg to do with flac?
22:00.09trxhttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/libhildon-extras1/0.9.7/
22:00.19trx"it has missing dependencies"
22:00.33trxis this fresh data or has this been fixed?
22:00.43*** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
22:01.50makulkaron maemo, i have parent qwidget, create a child widget, call child->hide() and parents hides too. Or atleast video which is playing on parent widget stops
22:02.14trxignore what i asked above
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22:09.05PhonicUKis away: playing LBP2
22:10.10luke-jrTokz: FLAC is an Ogg format
22:10.15Tokzoh
22:10.23Tokzcouldnt find ogg-support
22:10.25Tokz:|||
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22:13.01pupnikwow LBP2 is genius
22:15.47piggzdid some kind of maemo update come out today?
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22:20.42pupnikbah there aren't any phones i'd rather buy than a n900
22:20.49pupnikstill .. nothing out there
22:21.08ds3pupnik: not even a Droid? ;)
22:21.44pupniklooking at what's available for android, maemo is way more fun to me
22:21.54pupnikthe phone would have to be much better hardwarewise
22:21.57pupnikat the same price
22:22.31GAN900facepalms
22:22.46pupniki've been using android for a month now GAN900 - on a tablet
22:22.52GAN900facepalms
22:22.56pupnikit's SO ANNOYING
22:23.24pupniknot to mention unstable
22:23.41pupniknot to mention full of 99% pure shit for apps
22:23.48*** join/#maemo tg (irc@tgbit.net)
22:25.18GeneralAntilles1You'd thing people wouldn't be surprised by a thunderstorm in the lightning capital of the world.
22:25.22GeneralAntilles1pupnik: Android sucks.
22:25.48*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/council/GeneralAntilles)
22:26.04pupnikit's kind of fun to have 'a little bit' of linux on the phone.  -- more fun for me than symbian
22:26.15GeneralAntillesYeah
22:26.17GeneralAntillesVery little bit, though.
22:26.24GeneralAntillesand the whole OS is just irritating.
22:26.29pupnikyhes
22:27.05pupniki hope there's a 'slightly improved n900' soon
22:27.11GeneralAntillesAnything at all soon.
22:27.15GeneralAntillesOtherwise nobody will care anymore.
22:27.37pupnikwouldn't it be fun to have the exact same maemo5 on a new phone?
22:28.00pupnik40nm omap3 +  bigger screen and better speakers and bigger battery and better speakers?
22:28.04pupniklol
22:28.07GeneralAntillesI'd take it.
22:28.12pupnikme too :)
22:28.14GeneralAntilles1GB of RAM
22:28.28keriohell yeah
22:28.30merlin1991and better speakers
22:28.32merlin1991;)
22:28.35kerioand all for 19.99$
22:28.44merlin1991are you kidding me?
22:28.51merlin19919,99$ is the way to go
22:29.07pupniksure, per-week :)
22:29.11GeneralAntilleskerio: well, at that price, hell no.
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22:29.57pupnik2 year contract @ 9.99 per week would cover costs + operator wouldn't it
22:30.21pupnikfor people who can't save a bit of money
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22:47.19mceplif I bought N900 in US, but I use it in Czechia ... should I download US or Global firmware? Does anybody know?
22:48.34pupniki have only used 'global'
22:48.43mceplok
22:49.55pupniki think it is safe to try whichever one you want
22:51.07mceplOK, let's go global. My soul is not limited to one place ;)
22:51.11ds3pupnik: so you would value software over the hardware?
22:51.43pupnikds3: i can wait for whatever nokia brings next
22:52.35pupnikthen buy a used n900 if it sucks
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22:52.59alteregoCan anyone remember where in London Nokia World was held last year?
22:53.01pupnikand with a spare battery, n900 is usable for 1 day
22:53.39pupnikbut i'd prefer a 40nm omap3 @ 1ghz, 4.5" screen and 2000mAh battery :D
22:53.42pupnikoled
22:54.19alteregoI'd like compass, hdmi, 1080p decoding
22:54.24trxi am trying to translate a peace of code from C
22:54.31alteregoSo I can use it as a media PC for my TV
22:54.34trxQFont QtHeWrapper::showHeFontDialog(QWidget *parent, const QFont &defaultFont, const QString &dialogTitle) <-- what does & mean here?
22:55.40alteregotrx: it means "reference of"
22:56.04alteregoSo you pass in a real object, which it'll basically make it's own copy of.
22:56.07mceplhmm, flasher ends with
22:56.08mceplUSB device found found at bus 002, device address 008.
22:56.08mceplError claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy
22:56.10mceplany ideas?
22:56.28trxoh, that its, ty alterego
22:56.55alteregotrx: const before means it wont touch you object aswell.
22:58.39trxthat explains it, i was confused by "const"
22:59.23alterego:)
22:59.26trxty :)
22:59.29alteregonp
23:00.08alteregothe cool thing about QString args as well, you can pass in a c string inplace.
23:00.30alteregoBecause it'll cast to QString and work as expected.
23:01.16alteregoSo: showHeFontDialog(this, QFont("fixed"), "some string");
23:01.59alteregoIs fine and you don't have to worry about memory management because those "objects" die when your function scope ends.
23:04.18ieatlintactually those are fixed strings that sit on the stack methinks
23:05.52alteregoieatlint: I meant QFont as an object, and that static c string gets cast to a QString, but you maybe right, I'm not an expert at these things. But he doesn't have to worry about memory management.
23:06.52alteregobbl
23:07.39ieatlintyeah, in that example, he doesn't
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23:19.48trxgood to know that too, ty again :)
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23:49.30MrBawbfixed strings are actually in a section called "text"
23:51.09MrBawbI don't really know much about C++, but I expect the temporary object created goes through the stack, like you said
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