| 00:00.10 | jonwil | but I have no regrets buying one |
| 00:01.00 | ThreeM | i like the awsome windowmanager. noting i have seen, eg. ios, android, symbian, is so intuitive and nice. |
| 00:01.21 | nox- | yeah i like mine too, also the fact that you dont need to `jailbreak' it like some other phones... |
| 00:01.25 | jonwil | I am glad I didnt make the stupid decision and buy the HTC Desire Z (which would have cost me twice as much and required dodgy hacks just to run my own kernel) |
| 00:01.49 | ThreeM | but th keyboard on the htc is nice |
| 00:01.58 | *** join/#maemo sid__ (~sid@g227153069.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:02.05 | sid_on | ok; thats strange; fresh installed system; from shell dns recuests are possible; package manager fails; after i ping downloads.maemo.nokia.com from shell it works (dns cache) |
| 00:02.18 | ThreeM | but a have used android for about 4 days and i realize that is not the right one for me. im not an facebook social network guy |
| 00:06.24 | ThreeM | any chance that nokia will open maemo and the driovers completly?! |
| 00:07.04 | ThreeM | i guess, nobody knows :) |
| 00:08.17 | jonwil | I can tell you right now that the answer is essentially no |
| 00:08.41 | alterego | ThreeM: all that work has moved to MeeGo, somethings will never be open but at least they're being kept up-to-date in MeeGo |
| 00:09.37 | ThreeM | so ok, i think i found my device :) |
| 00:09.50 | ThreeM | N900 with 2 akkupacks :) |
| 00:10.09 | jonwil | akkupack is? |
| 00:10.24 | nox- | batteries |
| 00:10.28 | jonwil | ok |
| 00:10.31 | ThreeM | ahh sorry, im from germany. batteries i mean |
| 00:12.05 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: don't forget a decent external charger for the batteries |
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| 00:13.18 | ThreeM | hehe, i get it |
| 00:13.21 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: btw most (95%) of kernel drivers are foss. Some of the "middleware" though is not, like mce which does all the LED management and much more |
| 00:14.01 | jonwil | AFAIK the only N900 kernel driver that isnt open source is the GPU driver |
| 00:14.04 | jonwil | or am I wrong on that? |
| 00:14.06 | DocScrutinizer | I guess even 100% of kernel are foss |
| 00:14.22 | ThreeM | ah thats sounds good |
| 00:14.30 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: yep, and even there I'm not sure it's a kernel driver |
| 00:14.42 | jonwil | If there is nothing tied to a specific kernel version, that's GREAT for the future |
| 00:14.55 | ZogG_work | what kernel does maemo use? |
| 00:14.57 | jonwil | Android is plagued with binary blobs and ties to specific kernel versions |
| 00:15.00 | ZogG_work | .28 ? |
| 00:15.18 | DocScrutinizer | Linux t900 2.6.28.10power46 #1 PREEMPT Sun Dec 12 03:11:24 EET 2010 armv7l unknown |
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| 00:16.30 | *** join/#maemo sid_ (~sid@g226225041.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:16.49 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: there are more binary blobs on maemo than you'd like to have, that's for sure. Just none of them in kernel |
| 00:17.04 | jonwil | thats what I mean |
| 00:17.11 | alterego | Actually the kernel part of the sgx driver is foss, in meego the kernel space is 100 pc foss |
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| 00:17.33 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: duh, and in maemo? |
| 00:17.48 | wmarone | the kernel part of all the video drivers is foss, but no one cares :/ |
| 00:17.58 | wmarone | cause all the good stuff, isn't |
| 00:18.04 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 00:18.05 | jonwil | That means that the N900 could be the first linux cellphone with an untainted kernel :) |
| 00:18.31 | DocScrutinizer | nope, Neo 1973 was |
| 00:18.31 | wmarone | I think the openmoko won that award |
| 00:18.38 | wmarone | * |
| 00:18.40 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
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| 00:19.32 | ZogG_work | why openmoko died btw? |
| 00:19.38 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 00:19.43 | alterego | if you want open osmoconbb :D |
| 00:19.49 | DocScrutinizer | venture capital things |
| 00:20.12 | jonwil | openmoko was open, sure, but the hardware was obsolete before it even left the factory. |
| 00:20.24 | ThreeM | and it looks terrible |
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| 00:20.33 | DocScrutinizer | that's the price you pay for using open components |
| 00:21.42 | DocScrutinizer | every idiot can buy newest samsung CPU PC5 or whatever, and build a state of the art phone. But how do you deliver the CPU manual to your customers? |
| 00:22.14 | ZogG_work | so openmoko also did the hardrive parts? |
| 00:22.40 | DocScrutinizer | same goes for every single chip that has some registers you want your customers to have control over them |
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| 00:23.05 | ZogG_work | pitty we don't have fully open phone |
| 00:23.35 | DocScrutinizer | ZogG_work: I dunno what harddrive you're talking about, but at the time of design, the datasheets for almost all chips of FR were public |
| 00:23.45 | BCMM_ | heh, t-mob UK is knida backing down |
| 00:23.58 | ZogG_work | DocScrutinizer: i mean chips |
| 00:24.20 | DocScrutinizer | it's been especially nasty of samsung to revoke the s3c2442 manual later on |
| 00:24.30 | BCMM_ | they claim they never meant to say they were applying FUP changes to existing customers |
| 00:24.54 | DocScrutinizer | and glamo GFX chip was a special case, a really special case |
| 00:25.08 | alterego | I think I'm gonna have to start storing my wip projects on the N900, with a full toolchain. |
| 00:25.24 | jonwil | even in the non-phone space, its almost impossible to find an ARM SOC that is in any way open (ask the OLPC XO guys how hard it is) |
| 00:25.34 | alterego | Then I can use Qt creator on the desktop and continue using vi on the N900 for little fixes. |
| 00:26.39 | alterego | anyhow, bedtime for me. |
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| 00:27.25 | DocScrutinizer | ZogG_work: and we managed even to convince u-blox guys so I was allowed to publish their schematics included in FR schem |
| 00:27.37 | ZogG_work | nice |
| 00:27.44 | ZogG_work | wierd it died |
| 00:28.08 | jonwil | what is u-blox? |
| 00:28.37 | jonwil | I think the solution for the next "open" |
| 00:28.40 | jonwil | phone |
| 00:28.42 | DocScrutinizer | uBlox is the GPS chip (manuf) of FR |
| 00:29.08 | jonwil | would be to have a little seperate thing for the radio similar to whats in those 3G dongles |
| 00:29.14 | DocScrutinizer | Swiss guys, rather openminded |
| 00:29.21 | sid_ | there is also a new project - gta04 |
| 00:29.31 | DocScrutinizer | yeahyeah |
| 00:29.40 | ZogG_work | gta04? |
| 00:29.50 | DocScrutinizer | Nikolaus over in Munich is doing that |
| 00:29.58 | DocScrutinizer | goldelico |
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| 00:30.34 | DocScrutinizer | funny they called it gta04 XP |
| 00:30.35 | sid_ | they only change the mainboard; case, gps, screen is the same |
| 00:30.54 | jonwil | My understanding is that the next project was going to be something that was basically a FreeRunner minus the cellular radio and the Glamo graphics chip |
| 00:30.58 | jonwil | and with a few other small changes |
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| 00:31.28 | DocScrutinizer | that's GTA03, it's dead since ~2 years |
| 00:31.38 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 00:31.40 | jonwil | whats GTA04 then? |
| 00:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | what sid_ says: a gta02 case (YES!) with same screen, but completely new electronics inside |
| 00:32.58 | ThreeM | ok im going asleep. you relly help me to decide. from now im a N900 user and stay here :) |
| 00:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | at least *this* incarnation of GTA04, the first non-OM related one. There've been at least 3 GTA04 inside OM prior to that |
| 00:33.44 | jonwil | is the plan for this new GTA04 going to include cellular radio? |
| 00:33.47 | javispedro | GTA02 -- http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Freerunner02.gif ? |
| 00:33.53 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
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| 00:34.10 | DocScrutinizer | freerunner is codemane GTA02, yes |
| 00:34.26 | javispedro | and you like that case? :) |
| 00:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | ME??? nah |
| 00:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | it's outright awfull, but rigid like a rubber ball |
| 00:36.50 | DocScrutinizer | those phones survived drops from 3rd floor to pavement, and slides from car roof driving @ 30mph |
| 00:36.52 | BCMM_ | a rubber ball isn't rigid |
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| 00:37.17 | DocScrutinizer | unbrrakable then, if you like that better :-) |
| 00:37.40 | BCMM_ | i still have my nokia 3410 because it's so bulletproof |
| 00:37.53 | BCMM_ | i take it places i daren't take the n900 |
| 00:38.33 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I forgot to send those spare cases to Nikolaus |
| 00:38.40 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 00:39.21 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe I should use them for icehockey instead :-P |
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| 00:40.08 | javispedro | heh |
| 00:42.32 | ZogG_work | DocScrutinizer: did u leave openmoko or u still part of it? |
| 00:42.59 | DocScrutinizer | openmoko is basically dead. I left 2 years ago |
| 00:44.05 | ZogG_work | is it corporation or it's just some project people doing for fun and their believes in openness |
| 00:53.55 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, openmoko corporate is out of the phone buisness. |
| 00:54.38 | SpeedEvil | There is a remenant community around the old hardware, and some rumors of new hardware. Also running software developed by the community on other platforms like the n900. |
| 00:55.17 | javispedro | so, how much for a new gta02? =) |
| 00:58.19 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: DocScrutinizer has some you could buy I think. |
| 00:58.33 | DocScrutinizer | eh? |
| 00:59.16 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 00:59.24 | GeneralAntilles | yawns. |
| 00:59.36 | DocScrutinizer | aah, yes. Just writing a mail to Nikolaus to get rid of them :-D |
| 01:00.20 | javispedro | ah, garbage! |
| 01:00.36 | javispedro | I have some ethernet cardbus cards, if anyone wants them =) |
| 01:01.56 | DocScrutinizer | Neo Freerunner GTA02A7 at just 279 EUR, GTA02A7+ just 299 EUR incl. Debug Board! http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo Freerunner |
| 01:02.38 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: if you're interested, mine are cheaper and new |
| 01:02.51 | DocScrutinizer | (but A6) |
| 01:03.58 | javispedro | well, open IS expensive, seems. |
| 01:05.05 | DocScrutinizer | there's not that much of a difference between the chip cost and assembling cost of a FR and a e.g N900 |
| 01:06.56 | ThreeM | i dont understand why the companys make such a big secret about there hardware and so on |
| 01:07.17 | DocScrutinizer | who? |
| 01:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | aah plural |
| 01:07.50 | jonwil | Patents and IP is one reason (i.e. fear that if they open their specs/code, their competitors will pour over them looking for IP violations) |
| 01:07.55 | DocScrutinizer | it's all about patent trolling and lawyers ging mad on you |
| 01:08.07 | DocScrutinizer | going* |
| 01:08.12 | jonwil | also trade secrets (e.g. not wanting to tell other companies what makes their hardware better than their competitors) |
| 01:08.30 | DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly |
| 01:08.59 | jonwil | it can also be for regulatory/legal reasons (e.g. WiFi or cellular communications) |
| 01:09.12 | DocScrutinizer | rarely |
| 01:09.19 | ThreeM | they cannot really beleve that the competetors cannot reverse the things.... and if the do that (reverse engeneering) they know how to find ways to copy it without touch any patents or make it better by there own by avoid the mistakes of the others |
| 01:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | nobody thinks |
| 01:09.39 | DocScrutinizer | that |
| 01:10.07 | jonwil | in some cases its for DRM reasons (e.g. certain features in ATI video cards not being made open because of DRM) |
| 01:10.11 | ThreeM | so the hole thing is useless in my eyes |
| 01:10.35 | DocScrutinizer | ask lawyer |
| 01:11.02 | nox- | jonwil, but the hdmi keys are known anyway... |
| 01:11.07 | DocScrutinizer | ask why Samsung even revoked their publicly available manual for S3C2442 |
| 01:11.09 | nox- | err hdcp |
| 01:11.22 | ThreeM | how succsessfuly drm is, we all know. damn 50 years of hightech, and allmost every protection is breakable. no matter if the specs are known or not |
| 01:11.35 | nox- | thats what i meant :) |
| 01:11.59 | jonwil | and I heard some vendors that dont want to open their specs/code because their drivers contain all kinds of workarounds and hacks (e.g. to fix bugs in the hardware) and they dont want to admit how crap their drivers/hardware is |
| 01:12.12 | nox- | heh yeah |
| 01:12.13 | ThreeM | the unbreakable ps3 seems to be a general fail. and when it was discover? after sony removes features |
| 01:12.32 | DocScrutinizer | it's usually not about keeping stuff secret, but about not geting involved into a legal act of making it available |
| 01:12.47 | ZogG_work | and also religion views |
| 01:12.50 | nox- | ThreeM, yep exactly, after they made the `hackers' mad at them |
| 01:12.57 | ZogG_work | they don't open their drivers cause of it |
| 01:13.14 | ThreeM | senseless |
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| 01:14.32 | ThreeM | like mark twain said: Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law |
| 01:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | a simple example: if you publish specs of your chip, then n China someone can offer a '100% compatible drop in replacement'. They can't do this when you don't disclose the specs as it sounds odd when there are no specs about the original, so what's it this copycat is claiming then? |
| 01:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | then quite usually those datasheets are not free of errors. If published you will find somebody sueing you |
| 01:19.09 | ThreeM | when i was the original company, and such a thing happen, i will went to the chinaman and buy my parts there cause its ceaper then my own |
| 01:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | competitors try to find paragraphs that *sound* like violating any of their (C) pool |
| 01:19.27 | ThreeM | if the quality is acceptable?! |
| 01:19.35 | ZogG_work | i'm sueing u all for using #maemo as i have copywrite |
| 01:20.06 | BCMM_ | ThreeM: how would you then sell the product when somebody else is selling it without your markup? |
| 01:20.48 | BCMM_ | ZogG: is that something to do with copy-on-write? |
| 01:21.11 | ThreeM | if i buy the parts from the same chinaman how will sell copys of my products i can compete with the price and sell it at the same price |
| 01:21.29 | ThreeM | example? |
| 01:21.38 | DocScrutinizer | heh, when I buy a N900 then I don't want to read "SoC: TI OMAP3430 ARM Cortex-A8 *compatible* (says copycat Wang)" |
| 01:21.58 | ThreeM | same thing that amd does with x86 clones |
| 01:21.59 | ThreeM | ;) |
| 01:22.26 | *** join/#maemo beford (~0o0o0@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 01:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | ps: Wang also said "will OC to 1.6GHz easily, I swear" |
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| 01:23.42 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 01:23.47 | ThreeM | or other example: im a mountainbiker, love nightrides. so i decide to to buy a really bright bikelight. i found out that a firm called Lupine build relly good devices, but the costs are 350 bucks |
| 01:24.53 | ThreeM | uff a lot of money for a bikelight. so im looking at an alternative. and i found one. magicshine. an 1: neraly 1 clone of that Lupine 350 bucks light. but costs only 50 bucks |
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| 01:25.45 | ThreeM | i get to the point right now, be patient :) |
| 01:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 01:26.08 | ZogG_work | i wouldn't buy the clone |
| 01:26.21 | ZogG_work | btw what amd x86 clones? |
| 01:27.33 | ThreeM | so, after a while the Clone is not an secret anymore, and what happen? Some Companys go to chiniese man and say: make your lamp with different design for a good price. LEGAL no Copyright isue between lupine and the others. the build quality is the same, no much issues on that device |
| 01:27.34 | DocScrutinizer | you'll not win the speedtyping contest, darling |
| 01:27.58 | ThreeM | im not english native speaker ;) |
| 01:28.27 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: Wang also offers "dual-sim" :) |
| 01:28.46 | ShadowJK | what's this wang you speak of |
| 01:28.49 | ThreeM | so lupine is sure pissed off, that there work was cloned. no question. BUT there Still selling there lamps cause about service! |
| 01:29.02 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: with OMAP3430 clone? great :-D |
| 01:29.14 | ThreeM | you can upgrade the lamp for free id new led emmiters are on market and so on. |
| 01:29.25 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: copycat wang, lives in Shenzen |
| 01:29.41 | DocScrutinizer | or was it Wong |
| 01:29.42 | ShadowJK | and isn't dual sim standard for the phone-on-a-chip the lowcost mass cloners use? :) |
| 01:29.44 | javispedro | omap3430 clone!!! ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo --> arm11 :) |
| 01:30.02 | ThreeM | so why could it be with IC's the same? why have an iphone so expensive or any other device from the big players? |
| 01:30.15 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: now you're speaking |
| 01:31.12 | BCMM_ | ThreeM: the iphone is primarily a fashion accesory, and they jelously legally defend the visual design against ripoffs |
| 01:31.13 | ThreeM | atm manufactures are invent a product, throw it to the consumer ans say "eat it and die" |
| 01:31.33 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: because they had lots of R&D cost, and because *they _can_ ask for that price* |
| 01:32.12 | ThreeM | you get poor service, very shot maintanance time, maybe big design flaws, and no willing to clean that up |
| 01:32.25 | SpeedEvil | ThreeM: Designing a phone is expensive. |
| 01:32.34 | DocScrutinizer | oooh yes |
| 01:32.47 | SpeedEvil | ThreeM: To get to having 5000 phones for sale, you need several million dollars. |
| 01:33.04 | SpeedEvil | ThreeM: this is not counting software cost. |
| 01:33.13 | DocScrutinizer | esp when going thru 14 protoboards and 6 PVs |
| 01:33.31 | ZogG_work | so cloned who? intel or amd. i mean the thing u talked about? |
| 01:33.38 | SpeedEvil | And assuming you can source parts, when vendors are utterly uninterested in dealing with 'tiny' orders of 5000. |
| 01:34.06 | ThreeM | ok rhe amd/intel was not the best example, maybe the lights too |
| 01:34.26 | ZogG_work | oh it was example? |
| 01:34.32 | ZogG_work | i thought it really happened |
| 01:34.35 | ThreeM | but is there a really big difference between ipod 1gen, 2.gen 3gs? |
| 01:34.35 | SpeedEvil | A light can be designed in perhaps a month by an individual. |
| 01:34.43 | SpeedEvil | ThreeM: yes, internally. |
| 01:34.49 | ThreeM | ZogG the bikelight thing really happen |
| 01:34.53 | SpeedEvil | A phone of n900 class will take dozens of man-years |
| 01:35.09 | DocScrutinizer | hundereds |
| 01:35.12 | SpeedEvil | possibly hundreds |
| 01:35.24 | ThreeM | maybe im to idealistic |
| 01:35.43 | BCMM_ | ThreeM: yeah, newer ipods use encrypted DBs to make it harder to sync with linux |
| 01:35.43 | SpeedEvil | For the hw design alone, assuming all the chips are there - maybe a hundred might be fair. |
| 01:35.51 | ThreeM | BCMM_ ;) |
| 01:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 01:35.58 | SpeedEvil | sw design, and designing the chips too is a huge, huge slice more |
| 01:36.18 | DocScrutinizer | haha, designing BB5 |
| 01:36.22 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 01:36.30 | ZogG_work | but how do the companies share with each other |
| 01:36.36 | SpeedEvil | It's similar to the argument about wireless spectrum being charged. |
| 01:36.41 | DocScrutinizer | Wolfgang came to me with his idea to do that on Qi-hw |
| 01:36.42 | ZogG_work | for example nvidia can use cpu for video |
| 01:36.48 | ZogG_work | so they need specs of cpu |
| 01:36.56 | SpeedEvil | 'It shouldn't be' - at the same time the same people are arguing against more towers. |
| 01:37.46 | ThreeM | ZogG vor video accelleration/encoding over gpu nvidia provide apis like cuda |
| 01:37.53 | ThreeM | vor =for |
| 01:38.09 | ZogG_work | but before it? |
| 01:38.18 | ZogG_work | they do share something |
| 01:38.26 | ThreeM | so you dont have to know how the gpu will do it, you just use the api instead |
| 01:38.29 | ZogG_work | now i heard nvidia would pay intel btw |
| 01:38.36 | SpeedEvil | ZogG: Only when it is strictly in their interests. |
| 01:38.36 | ZogG_work | cause of patents problems |
| 01:38.48 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise - pretty much no sharing happens. |
| 01:39.05 | ThreeM | nvidia will inform adobe about the api cause flash is widly spread |
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| 01:39.24 | ThreeM | so they can write on the GPU "works like a charm with adobe flash" |
| 01:39.36 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I found it amusing he thought designing a GSM chip is any simpler than designing a phone |
| 01:39.42 | ThreeM | so the will poperly sell more gpus than ati |
| 01:39.43 | SpeedEvil | :) |
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| 01:40.44 | ThreeM | ok explain. GSM is an internation standard. How many different gsm chip design the world need? |
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| 01:42.12 | ZogG_work | we should do hardwireleaks site |
| 01:42.24 | nox- | :) |
| 01:42.47 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: just one perfect one, alas that's not existing yet X-P |
| 01:43.05 | SpeedEvil | ThreeM: As a guess, it would not suprise me if there are over 50 GSM chipsets. |
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| 01:43.27 | SpeedEvil | ThreeM: and probably another hundred combinations of 3g/gsm at least |
| 01:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 01:43.41 | ThreeM | so why? what makes the one gsm chip better than the other? |
| 01:43.42 | ThreeM | hmm |
| 01:43.51 | DocScrutinizer | power consumption? |
| 01:43.55 | DocScrutinizer | price |
| 01:44.09 | DocScrutinizer | interfaces and ease of using them? |
| 01:44.10 | SpeedEvil | Price, availability, power consumption, regulatory issues and risk, ... |
| 01:44.20 | DocScrutinizer | added values (buzzword GPS) |
| 01:44.31 | SpeedEvil | Do you think that the chipmaker is at risk of being accused of dumping, for example. |
| 01:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | RISK, yeah |
| 01:44.46 | DocScrutinizer | in hw all is about risk management |
| 01:44.53 | SpeedEvil | Which may mean you suddenly can only get the chips at a 500% markup over what cost you agreed. |
| 01:45.18 | DocScrutinizer | or not at all, or with a nasty bug that kills your design |
| 01:45.21 | SpeedEvil | Or you can't get them in teh desired package, and have to redesign. |
| 01:46.13 | DocScrutinizer | ask Nokia about usb-host and TWL4030 GAIA chip. They will teach you |
| 01:46.27 | jacekowski | ? |
| 01:46.29 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 01:46.43 | SpeedEvil | the original n900 wasn't supposed to have an extra USB interface chip. |
| 01:47.18 | nox- | ah it was only added bc of that eu regulation? |
| 01:47.19 | SpeedEvil | then someone realised late in the design that the twl4030 couldn't do some aspects of charger detection, so another chip got put on the board - boosting costs by maybe a dollar. |
| 01:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | then it turned out TWL4030 has a few silicon erata, and also missed a function |
| 01:47.36 | nox- | :( |
| 01:47.37 | jacekowski | BCMM_: not encrypted, just signed with cryptographic signature |
| 01:48.14 | BCMM_ | yeah, i knew it was some kinda secure hashing - same effect |
| 01:48.23 | ThreeM | i thought the gaia was designed to be usb host?! or not? |
| 01:48.28 | DocScrutinizer | that's why USB got delayed to a point where Nokia couldn't afford to wait any longer to get cert for USB host done |
| 01:48.38 | ThreeM | hmm |
| 01:48.42 | jacekowski | ThreeM: yes, but there were other problems |
| 01:48.44 | DocScrutinizer | ...and swapped USB AB receptacle for a B one |
| 01:50.07 | ThreeM | and who host mode work now? im read that there is a solution for usb host |
| 01:50.32 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: GAIA includes a PHY block. But alas it's been flawed for USB2.0 in several ways, until recent versions of chip |
| 01:50.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~hostmode |
| 01:50.45 | infobot | hostmode is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=869527#post869527 |
| 01:50.59 | jacekowski | good night people |
| 01:51.05 | SpeedEvil | night jacekowski |
| 01:51.10 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: yes, we fixed it (well, actually mostly me and Paul) |
| 01:52.32 | DocScrutinizer | by exploiting nasty test features of OMAP SoC musb core that were never meant for hostmode user grade operation |
| 01:53.00 | ThreeM | ok slow. understand it right that the chip CAN do USB Hsot but Nokia has problems with it so they dont implement it in the offical kernel? |
| 01:53.29 | DocScrutinizer | and also digging out some other details of how to operate parts of N900 in a way Nokia never meant to disclose |
| 01:54.03 | ThreeM | and the acctual solution is a workaround to get the chip work probertly in a way nokia wasnt able to do that? |
| 01:54.23 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: GAIA got discarded (the USB part of it). The new chip is missing a function needed for hostmode as we know it. |
| 01:54.36 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: yes, exactly |
| 01:54.38 | ShadowJK | ThreeM, everyone, noy just nokia, has problems running it in host mode |
| 01:54.39 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 01:54.44 | ShadowJK | and it still wouldn't pass usb certification :) |
| 01:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 01:55.12 | ThreeM | uff ok, now im reallize that im thinking to easy :) |
| 01:55.13 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia actively discarded hostmode as they had not enough time to pass USB cert |
| 01:56.18 | DocScrutinizer | also I wonder how they would have planned to enable hostmode via sw, as 1707 PHY doesn't support that |
| 01:56.36 | BCMM_ | i prefer to believe that the awesome power of the community allows it to add hardware features in software packages |
| 01:56.38 | DocScrutinizer | GAIA TWL4030 PHY would, I guess |
| 01:56.46 | BCMM_ | now where's my laser? |
| 01:57.12 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM_: coming next year, on OVI |
| 01:57.19 | ThreeM | hehe |
| 01:57.26 | nox- | haha |
| 01:58.10 | BCMM_ | i'm sure it'll be just like that tethering app and we'll have it for free with kernel-power after a couple of months |
| 01:58.23 | DocScrutinizer | thinks he should finaly finish and roll out new booston.sh / jrbme.0.0.0.1 for h-e-n |
| 01:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | before starting lazers project |
| 01:59.22 | ThreeM | damn the hole moneymaking will destroy my dreams of an foss world :) |
| 02:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | your dreams are distorted, foss and moneymaking are *not* mutually exclusive |
| 02:00.20 | *** join/#maemo kov (~kov@cafe.minaslivre.org) |
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| 02:01.49 | ThreeM | i see this on enterprice linuxes |
| 02:01.53 | ThreeM | but |
| 02:02.50 | ThreeM | why this work with software but not with hardware? |
| 02:02.59 | ThreeM | ok linux has a huge community |
| 02:03.26 | DocScrutinizer | simple answer: copying hardware cost money. Copying bytes not |
| 02:04.24 | ThreeM | Copying bytes not <-- you have to buy harddiscs or dvds or other media |
| 02:04.28 | DocScrutinizer | actually copying hw cost a hellufalot of money, when it comes to cloning chips etc |
| 02:04.42 | BCMM_ | yeah, any amateur can make a modified linux kernel. all the docs in the world won't make constructing a modified phone cheap |
| 02:05.08 | ThreeM | hm ok |
| 02:05.32 | Psi | so how come current_now says my n900 is using 800 microamps yet the lcd is running? |
| 02:05.45 | BCMM_ | searches youtube for "how to set up a silicon fab in your shed" |
| 02:05.48 | DocScrutinizer | whut? |
| 02:06.13 | DocScrutinizer | Psi: by any chance you hooked it up to USB? :-D |
| 02:06.19 | ThreeM | then i will thanks to anybody who will reverase hardware, and make thinks possible that was not planing to do with it |
| 02:06.23 | *** join/#maemo cehteh[tm] (~ct@46.115.159.126) |
| 02:06.29 | Psi | nope, its running 100% on bat |
| 02:06.49 | DocScrutinizer | meh, current_now is probably a guestimate of bme |
| 02:06.58 | Psi | must be |
| 02:07.15 | DocScrutinizer | depending on what current_now you are talking about |
| 02:07.30 | Psi | i was just following the wiki after installing power user kernel |
| 02:07.38 | Psi | modprobe bq27x00_battery |
| 02:07.44 | Psi | then cat current_now |
| 02:07.46 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 02:07.55 | DocScrutinizer | that one should be correct |
| 02:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | though I heard it doesn't work concurrently to bme |
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| 02:09.00 | DocScrutinizer | at very least bme breaks on modprobe bq27x00_battery, on next start bme |
| 02:09.34 | DocScrutinizer | also I'm not sure about the units in /sys/*/*/current_now |
| 02:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | might as well be mA |
| 02:09.46 | SpeedEvil | it's raw chip output |
| 02:09.53 | DocScrutinizer | or the whole driver might be flawed |
| 02:09.55 | SpeedEvil | It's not mA |
| 02:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | then it shall be uA, yes |
| 02:10.31 | DocScrutinizer | maybe bme just tried to read bq27200 and messed up the readout |
| 02:11.12 | Psi | i was getting between 500 and 800 with the lcd on. Now ive let the lcd black itself and ssh'ed in. It changes between 55, 250 and 800 now |
| 02:11.16 | SpeedEvil | n * 3.57/22 mA |
| 02:11.19 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 02:11.41 | SpeedEvil | See http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management |
| 02:11.46 | DocScrutinizer | OUCH |
| 02:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | *raw* chip output, yeah - LOL |
| 02:12.20 | DocScrutinizer | how utterly useful |
| 02:12.38 | Psi | hehe |
| 02:13.34 | Psi | that makes more sense, 800 would be 129mA |
| 02:13.38 | ThreeM | ok, now im really go to sleep. 3hous lest befor back to work. thx for the nice talk, maybe tomorrow im back with my new device |
| 02:14.07 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: we got that 22mR documented anywhere? |
| 02:14.32 | SpeedEvil | dunno |
| 02:14.46 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: got or will get new device? |
| 02:14.58 | ThreeM | will get :) |
| 02:15.01 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 02:15.13 | DocScrutinizer | ThreeM: good night |
| 02:16.08 | Psi | must say that multimedia version of space quest 4 running inside dosbox is much better with overclocked kernel :) |
| 02:16.36 | ThreeM | im prevously own an N900 but get jeaulous about the htc desire hd from my wife. so i switched to htc desire after 2 days. now after 4 days with android im missing the N900. on the next N900 try i will ignore my wife ;) |
| 02:16.39 | DocScrutinizer | growls |
| 02:16.41 | ThreeM | and there phone |
| 02:16.44 | javispedro | Psi: do you happen to know if it is a protected mode game? |
| 02:17.17 | Psi | sorry, i dont know, it displays no DOS4GW when it starts tho |
| 02:17.27 | javispedro | yeah, then prolly not |
| 02:18.52 | javispedro | Psi: have you edited your dosbox.conf file? |
| 02:18.56 | Psi | yes |
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| 02:19.06 | Psi | would you like it? |
| 02:19.30 | javispedro | nope, I want to ask you to change core=auto to core=dynamic and tell me if you feel it is any faster |
| 02:20.22 | Psi | its not laggy anymore so i dont think i would notice even if it was faster |
| 02:20.24 | Psi | but ill try |
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| 02:22.26 | javispedro | if you have the time test it under stock frequency :) |
| 02:22.56 | javispedro | explanation: core=dynamic enables recompiler for real mode |
| 02:23.33 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 02:25.16 | Psi | just had a look, i already have set core=dynamic |
| 02:25.18 | ShadowJK | iirc someone on #meego-arm tested with a jig and found RS=21 gave results closest to that of a Fluke |
| 02:26.16 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yes, that's why I asked if we got that documented for the general public |
| 02:26.40 | Psi | pretty sure i found core=dynamic was fastest when i played around with the settings a while ago |
| 02:26.51 | javispedro | Psi: forget about your x86 assumptions |
| 02:27.03 | javispedro | ah, you mean playing on a n900? |
| 02:27.03 | Psi | this was on the n900 |
| 02:27.30 | Psi | yeah, i tried a lot of different dosbox on n900 settings with spacequest 4 a while back and found the fastest ones |
| 02:28.24 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, he just mentioned it on irc. Maybe throw it onto a wikipage? |
| 02:28.36 | DocScrutinizer | that's what I meant |
| 02:28.38 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 02:29.10 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil is the god of wiki hw docs, so I asked him if he got it included already |
| 02:29.30 | javispedro | Psi: well, good to know that the recompiler works better for at least one game :) |
| 02:29.41 | Psi | heh, yep :) |
| 02:46.08 | *** join/#maemo pyther (~pyther@unaffiliated/pyther) |
| 02:46.10 | pyther | Hello |
| 02:46.22 | pyther | Does anyone have a good method of syncing their phone up with google calendar? |
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| 02:55.44 | popn1k | econtalk.org is better entertaining education than ted.com |
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| 03:08.50 | Psi | so have we had any probable cases of n900's dying from overclocking yet? |
| 03:08.54 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (Ian--@77.243.78.98) |
| 03:09.07 | wmarone | again, they won't -die- |
| 03:09.16 | wmarone | they'll just become unstable and unreliable |
| 03:09.25 | Psi | ok, well that then |
| 03:09.46 | wmarone | ask someone who has overclocked theirs ;) |
| 03:09.56 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@94.59.181.244) |
| 03:10.00 | Psi | i just overclocked mine now |
| 03:10.07 | Psi | for the first time |
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| 03:24.37 | maher | sometimes when i change sim card, the media player refuses to play music anymore, saying "Unable to play media. Media format not supported" - any advice? |
| 03:25.45 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 03:27.58 | popn1k | maher: i actually use mplayer |
| 03:28.05 | popn1k | and disable the media scanner |
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| 03:29.47 | maher | popn1k: i will try mplayer - but the alarm usually doesn't make any noise in this situation either |
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| 03:30.56 | popn1k | maher: does a reboot solve it? |
| 03:31.34 | maher | popn1k: no |
| 03:32.03 | maher | popn1k: sometimes tracker-process --hard-reset works - ut it didn't this time |
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| 03:35.29 | popn1k | unfortunately device users now expect something like a media tracker. however the one in maemo5 has been problematic for me as well |
| 03:35.47 | popn1k | i have no idea why changing a sim would mess it up |
| 03:35.58 | popn1k | sure you didn't mean 'changing microsd'? |
| 03:36.44 | maher | popn1k: no - the phone sim not the microsd card |
| 03:37.07 | popn1k | sometimes people mistype |
| 03:37.44 | *** join/#maemo sid__ (~sid@f055240111.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 03:37.51 | SpeedEvil | popn1k: why constantly with the nickchange? |
| 03:38.49 | ZogG_work | ~ping |
| 03:38.49 | infobot | ~pong |
| 03:39.06 | ZogG_work | iris from asus concept is cool |
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| 03:40.29 | popn1k | avoiding spam SpeedEvil |
| 03:42.10 | ZogG_work | popn1k is next generatrion pupnik? |
| 03:42.19 | maher | popn1k: is mplayer a command line player or does it come with a ui? |
| 03:42.44 | popn1k | there was/is a gnome mplayer 'gmplayer' frontend but i don't know of a hildon mplayer frontend |
| 03:42.50 | ZogG_work | mplayer is command line |
| 03:43.03 | ZogG_work | but it is used with gui mostly in all OS's |
| 03:46.27 | ZogG_work | ksmplayer gmplayer smplayer even maemo has it's own gui for it |
| 03:47.20 | popn1k | what's the maemo gui for it? |
| 03:49.59 | maher | ok - smplayer is producing no sound |
| 03:50.27 | maher | the slider which is meant to control volume doesn't produce the change volume bar |
| 03:53.15 | maher | [AO OSS] audio_setup: Can't open audio device /dev/dsp: No such file or directory <-- perhaps this is the problem? |
| 03:55.03 | *** join/#maemo Natunen (nalle@213-186-248-75.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 03:57.15 | maher | i also get things like: ALSA lib pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused |
| 03:59.17 | *** part/#maemo pyther (~pyther@unaffiliated/pyther) |
| 04:01.12 | maher | should pulseaudio be running? |
| 04:01.35 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@94.59.181.244) |
| 04:05.38 | ZogG_work | maher: try to play with settings |
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| 04:05.59 | ZogG_work | maher: pulseaudio is by default in maemo i think |
| 04:06.52 | ZogG_work | popn1k: sib |
| 04:07.00 | ZogG_work | and are pupnik or not? |
| 04:12.13 | maher | how do i (re)start pulseaudio or dbus? |
| 04:14.11 | ZogG_work | i dunno |
| 04:14.34 | ZogG_work | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:17.37 | maher | does anyone want to paste their output from aplay -l? |
| 04:20.44 | ieatlint | pulseaudio is maemo's audio system |
| 04:22.26 | ieatlint | check "pactl -h" for some better info on checking it |
| 04:22.33 | ieatlint | eg, "pactl stat" |
| 04:23.15 | ieatlint | and the missing /dev/dsp isn't a problem.. mplayer attempts to use the deprecated /dev/dsp interface there, and falls back to connecting to an audio server |
| 04:24.08 | maher | ieatlint: i rebooted one more time, and now things seem to be working - at least the volume control is back |
| 04:24.30 | ieatlint | yeah, the audio system is janky.. :P |
| 04:24.47 | ieatlint | meego will be using pulseaudio too :( |
| 04:24.50 | *** join/#maemo OutpostME (~OutpostME@dslb-092-072-171-159.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:26.34 | maher | pulseaudio is now running, as opposed to before... |
| 04:26.56 | maher | ieatlint: do you know how to restart pulseaudio? |
| 04:27.18 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@77.109.78.219) |
| 04:27.34 | ieatlint | off hand, nope, i don't |
| 04:27.34 | maher | ok - its all working now - now i dea what went wrong or how do fix it.... :( |
| 04:27.47 | ieatlint | probably a script in /etc/init.d |
| 04:27.53 | ieatlint | but generally, reboot the phone |
| 04:27.55 | maher | ieatlint: thanks for telling me about pactl |
| 04:29.00 | ieatlint | np |
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| 04:32.21 | ieatlint | a quick search says the generic way to start it would be "pulseaudio -D" (as root) |
| 04:33.29 | ieatlint | not sure if there is a better init script to be running though |
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| 04:42.10 | ZogG_work | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ |
| 04:42.11 | ZogG_work | + |
| 04:42.11 | ZogG_work | + |
| 04:42.11 | ZogG_work | ooops |
| 04:42.11 | ZogG_work | sorry tried to cleean buttons |
| 04:43.33 | ieatlint | looks like just one button |
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| 05:37.44 | popn1k | http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2009/06/epstein_on_the.html Richard Epstein on the Rule of Law |
| 05:39.31 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@netacc-gpn-4-35-20.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 05:44.43 | popn1k | Google: "showing results for WHAT YOU DID NOT TYPE" |
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| 07:06.46 | Mece | mornin' maemites |
| 07:07.00 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@e176078044.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:10.42 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.150.185) |
| 07:12.22 | ZogG | morning |
| 07:14.28 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@122.151.100.113) |
| 07:14.52 | ZogG | khertan, ping |
| 07:15.41 | *** join/#maemo mece1 (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi) |
| 07:15.52 | ZogG | i like told my n900 when it's cold. gives me feeling of something new' like i bought it right now |
| 07:16.08 | mece1 | ZogG: :D |
| 07:16.16 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 07:16.39 | ZogG | khweer is pretty awesome |
| 07:16.49 | ZogG | khweeter* |
| 07:16.56 | ZogG | khweeteur* |
| 07:17.04 | mece | :D |
| 07:17.20 | mece | has it changed much lately? |
| 07:17.50 | mece | I haven't tried it in a while. Been using my own twitter app |
| 07:18.01 | mece | it was super fast last I tried it. |
| 07:18.33 | ZogG | it is |
| 07:18.45 | *** join/#maemo delphi (~delphi@77-46-188-26.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 07:18.52 | ZogG | and new features + nice gui |
| 07:19.04 | ZogG | mece, what is your app? |
| 07:19.20 | mece | ZogG, tweed suit |
| 07:19.26 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@aolclient-67-9-195-57.aol.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 07:19.33 | ZogG | why didn'u share? |
| 07:19.43 | mece | ZogG, what do you mean? |
| 07:20.02 | ZogG | apped in repos |
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| 07:20.24 | mece | ZogG, well it's not done yet. |
| 07:20.58 | mece | ZogG, it's open source though. |
| 07:21.34 | ZogG | show screenies |
| 07:21.43 | mece | ZogG, hmm. lemme look some up |
| 07:22.00 | delphi | morning |
| 07:22.40 | ZogG | mece found git repo and you on twitter |
| 07:22.44 | mece | ZogG, http://twitpic.com/3ip9ft http://twitpic.com/3p66sd |
| 07:22.47 | mece | :) |
| 07:22.47 | ZogG | are you swedish? |
| 07:22.53 | mece | ZogG, finn |
| 07:23.01 | mece | the swedish speaking kind. |
| 07:23.19 | ZogG | finn? nice do me a favor |
| 07:23.26 | mece | ok.. |
| 07:24.27 | ZogG | throw an egg at nokia office =) |
| 07:25.02 | ZogG | i just dated swedish girl and language in tweets remind me swedish |
| 07:25.33 | mece | ZogG, well swedish is my first language. |
| 07:25.59 | mece | ZogG, like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish-speaking_Finns |
| 07:26.10 | ZogG | lemne mej ifhiit |
| 07:28.44 | mece | lol |
| 07:29.02 | ZogG | you are outcast than ? *sarcasm* |
| 07:29.24 | mece | ZogG, a little bit. But I speak fluent finnish, so I get by :) |
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| 07:30.01 | ZogG | =) |
| 07:30.26 | ZogG | it's wierd to be person from small losed group |
| 07:30.44 | ZogG | like mammons |
| 07:30.49 | mece | ZogG, are you a member of an obscure minority? |
| 07:30.50 | ZogG | or something |
| 07:30.58 | ZogG | you even don't choose it |
| 07:31.19 | frals | im a member of an obscure minority in this god forsaken country ;p |
| 07:31.21 | ZogG | i'm kinda minority but not like that |
| 07:31.32 | ZogG | and we are not closed |
| 07:31.36 | mece | frals, haha yeah |
| 07:31.45 | ZogG | frals, you too? |
| 07:31.58 | mece | frals, is a swede in finland |
| 07:32.03 | mece | erm |
| 07:32.09 | frals | all finns hate me here :D |
| 07:32.24 | mece | frals, :D |
| 07:32.58 | mece | thanks to people like frals, the finnish speaking finns hate me less :) |
| 07:33.02 | ShadowJK | is hurri too |
| 07:33.12 | ZogG | lol |
| 07:33.16 | mece | highfives ShadowJK |
| 07:33.36 | frals | funny thou, all finns hates swedes because they claim we think we are the kings of scandinavia |
| 07:33.47 | frals | and like, no swede i know ever had this belief |
| 07:34.07 | mece | frals, they don't have to believe, they know! |
| 07:34.08 | ZogG | mece and frals, as you have same language you can put the end to this stupid war, and just marry and make children and next generation, where sedish and finns can live in peace =_ |
| 07:34.12 | ZogG | =) |
| 07:34.52 | ShadowJK | Amusingly that person that suggested a nordic/acandinavian federal state recently said it's less impossible now because the swedes are starting to forget their imperial past behaviour !) |
| 07:35.01 | mece | LOL |
| 07:35.06 | ZogG | i'm russian in israel, and you know whole world hates russians, even russians themselves |
| 07:35.22 | mece | yeah frals, wtf? Why aren't we seeing more imperialism from you? |
| 07:35.29 | frals | ye only thing finns hates more than swedes are russians |
| 07:35.35 | mece | ZogG, russians are badass |
| 07:35.53 | ZogG | lol =) |
| 07:35.56 | mece | frals, i like swedes. |
| 07:36.02 | mece | frals, they're cuddly |
| 07:36.10 | ZogG | cause you traitor of your country |
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| 07:36.20 | ZogG | you switched sides |
| 07:36.29 | ZogG | not a team player |
| 07:36.32 | mece | well, i like swedes as long as they aren't doing sports |
| 07:36.39 | frals | haha |
| 07:36.49 | mece | sports = war |
| 07:37.00 | ZogG | what do you mean sports? |
| 07:37.09 | ShadowJK | icehockey |
| 07:37.12 | mece | well hockey, floorball |
| 07:37.24 | ZogG | cause they win fin? |
| 07:37.29 | mece | mostly |
| 07:37.34 | ZogG | hahaha |
| 07:37.39 | mece | it's a rivalry |
| 07:37.41 | ZogG | losers |
| 07:37.45 | ZogG | vavi frals |
| 07:37.51 | ZogG | frals > mece |
| 07:37.55 | mece | haha |
| 07:37.58 | ZogG | *popcorn* |
| 07:38.00 | mece | so true |
| 07:38.38 | mece | as I see it, the relationship with swedes is not hate as much as a big brother complex |
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| 07:39.10 | mece | well anyway |
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| 07:40.20 | mece | I have a thing here in my code that doesn't work in windows, how would I #ifdef so that it would only appear in 'nix versions? |
| 07:41.26 | mece | I have no idea where to find that stuff. seems that people simply just know stuff like Q_WS_MAEMO_5 |
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| 07:42.05 | toggles | mece: #if !defined(__WIN32__) |
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| 07:42.21 | mece | toggles, with the underscores? |
| 07:42.26 | toggles | yes |
| 07:42.36 | mece | toggles, is there a list of these constants somewherE? |
| 07:42.37 | toggles | if you want Q_WS_MAEMO_5 hold up, i'll grep my code |
| 07:42.42 | mece | toggles, also, thanks |
| 07:42.50 | mece | toggles, I have the maemo bits already |
| 07:43.09 | mece | but I use libnotify for linux desktop and don't want that for windows. |
| 07:43.41 | toggles | mece: yes, i solved it somehow with liblocation, give me a minute or two |
| 07:43.50 | mece | toggles, :) thanks |
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| 07:44.41 | toggles | ohh... mine is ugly.. |
| 07:45.04 | mece | toggles, lol mine too. |
| 07:45.06 | ShadowJK | remove the exclamation mark? |
| 07:45.10 | mece | toggles, ifdefs are ugly |
| 07:45.19 | mece | ShadowJK, no I don't want it for windows |
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| 07:46.08 | mece | what about the names in the pro file? I've seen maemo5 and unix. What are others called? |
| 07:46.19 | mece | is it win32? |
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| 07:47.37 | toggles | mece: ok, it's ugly but if you want it i'll give it to you |
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| 07:48.14 | mece | toggles, sure sure. I'll show you mine if you show me yours :) |
| 07:48.20 | toggles | sweet |
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| 07:48.31 | toggles | http://tommywatson.com/maemo.cpp |
| 07:48.45 | toggles | makes a lot of assumptions about platform |
| 07:49.49 | RobbieThe1st | Well, yea... |
| 07:49.51 | toggles | so basically i have an class defined in a .h file and the .cpp implementation is included in the .cpp based on arm + Q_WS_MAEMO_5 defined |
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| 07:51.35 | mece | toggles, whoa |
| 07:51.57 | mece | toggles, that's actually pretty strict :) so where did you find all those constants? |
| 07:52.11 | toggles | like i said, not pretty but it solved the testing on linux/port to maemo |
| 07:52.25 | toggles | well.. googleing and reading the qt headers |
| 07:52.34 | mece | toggles, well it's a lot prettier than mine :D |
| 07:52.37 | toggles | standard defins per platform are available like so |
| 07:52.40 | mece | at least that bit. |
| 07:52.59 | toggles | touch /tmp/x.c ; gcc -E -dM /tmp/x.c | less |
| 07:53.07 | mece | toggles, you'd think that stuff would be in qt docs somewhere... |
| 07:53.14 | mece | toggles, I'll go dig |
| 07:53.31 | toggles | i don't think thats the qt way, but it worked for me |
| 07:55.14 | toggles | it also assumes you only compile for qt on arm, if you don't have qt installed the build will fail |
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| 07:56.02 | mece | ooooo |
| 07:56.05 | mece | I finds it! |
| 07:56.58 | mece | toggles, here's something: http://doc.trolltech.com/latest/winsystem.html |
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| 08:02.58 | toggles | mece: rock on, thanks |
| 08:03.57 | toggles | again, though, it fails like my stuff fails, assumes you always had qt installed which may or may not work for you, doesn't work for me in most cases |
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| 08:33.37 | jef91 | So I have a cleanly flashed n900, did the emmc and then pr1.3 and for some reason no pages are loading the in the default webrowser. Screen shows white even after the page claims to be done loading. Any ideas why? |
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| 08:40.08 | psycho_oreos | jef91, I never flashed my emmc followed by pr1.3, if you entered in about:config would it show some warning page? |
| 08:41.41 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-052-241.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 08:41.48 | jef91 | Actually just installed browser switch board and it seems to be working now |
| 08:42.08 | jef91 | would like to thank the hardworking FOSS people that fix all of Nokia's fuck ups |
| 08:42.47 | jacekowski | that's mozilla fuckup |
| 08:42.55 | jacekowski | microB sucks a lot |
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| 08:43.05 | jacekowski | fennec sucks even more |
| 08:43.31 | psycho_oreos | have you tried their nightly builds? |
| 08:43.37 | jacekowski | yes |
| 08:43.42 | jacekowski | still slow and useless |
| 08:43.54 | jacekowski | opera ftw |
| 08:44.24 | psycho_oreos | heh opera is ok |
| 08:44.25 | khertan | jacekowski: lol |
| 08:44.49 | khertan | so compile a new webkit browser |
| 08:44.56 | khertan | chromium ? |
| 08:45.13 | psycho_oreos | buttons are puny on chromium |
| 08:45.25 | jacekowski | khertan: i have opera |
| 08:45.29 | khertan | (the last release available for maemo is 5 last time i ve tryed ... but ... (security pb)) |
| 08:45.31 | jacekowski | so i'm not worried about chromium |
| 08:45.35 | psycho_oreos | and the way the UI wraps around hildon makes it look pretty crap |
| 08:45.48 | khertan | i use KhtBrowser ... no problem also :) |
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| 08:46.04 | psycho_oreos | fennec seems nice but yeah really slow even with nightly builds, it just seems to be bloated |
| 08:46.27 | psycho_oreos | then there's macuco |
| 08:46.33 | khertan | yep ... not for n900 too slow |
| 08:46.46 | khertan | fennec is designed for device with more ram |
| 08:46.58 | jacekowski | well, it's based on bloated firefox |
| 08:46.59 | khertan | this is the main reason of the slow down ... swap |
| 08:47.13 | khertan | jacekowski: lol bloated firefox ... |
| 08:47.20 | khertan | do better :) |
| 08:47.22 | jef91 | There is un-bloated firefox? |
| 08:47.33 | jef91 | Yea, it's actually my girlfriends n900 |
| 08:47.40 | jef91 | I install switch board so I could change the default to opera |
| 08:47.40 | psycho_oreos | there's always lynx :P |
| 08:47.41 | jef91 | LOL |
| 08:48.07 | johnx | w3m ftw |
| 08:48.19 | jacekowski | well, it takes less than 2s to start opera on my laptop |
| 08:48.28 | johnx | though I find microb + sites designed for the iPhone to be a nice compromise |
| 08:48.30 | jacekowski | and that's with huge e-mail database |
| 08:48.34 | psycho_oreos | wget && strings ;) |
| 08:48.38 | jacekowski | loads of bookmarks and stuff |
| 08:48.42 | jacekowski | and 12s to start firefox |
| 08:49.01 | jef91 | ehh opera on the desktop is a turd |
| 08:49.09 | jef91 | it loads pages about as well as a mobile browser does |
| 08:49.16 | jacekowski | ekhm |
| 08:49.41 | psycho_oreos | the unfortunate irony is that there's plenty of sites these days have css designed for iphones and other browsers just have to find their own ways around it or to fake themselves as iphone (especially macuco) |
| 08:49.49 | jacekowski | opera has better result in acid3 than firefox |
| 08:51.22 | jacekowski | jef91: so it's more standard compatible than firefox, faster than firefox, and uses less memory than firefox |
| 08:51.51 | jef91 | ehh |
| 08:52.00 | jef91 | chromium... :) |
| 08:52.03 | psycho_oreos | and wasn't opera is proprietary? :) |
| 08:52.24 | johnx | on the desktop, most of my browser use these days seems to be based on interface comfortableness |
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| 08:52.28 | johnx | which is totally subjective :) |
| 08:52.28 | psycho_oreos | s/opera is proprietary/opera proprietary/ |
| 08:52.56 | johnx | at leat on my nice fast desktop. on my old iMac, speed does matter a bit |
| 08:53.37 | ArkanoiD- | wonders why opera is not instantly dead after webkit was released |
| 08:53.54 | jef91 | You and me both Arkanoid |
| 08:54.00 | johnx | ArkanoiD-, I'm quite impressed that they've stuck around on the desktop |
| 08:54.08 | inz | jacekowski, all benchmarks I've seen say that opera uses more memory than firefox when some pages open. |
| 08:54.21 | inz | Idle memory usage doesn't really mean anything. |
| 08:54.23 | johnx | I guess they have lots of business deals for mobile, but I'm not sure what they get out of making a desktop browser |
| 08:55.34 | Trewas | acid3 is useless, it was intentionally designed to include shit that is not yet in any standard, was/is broken in some/all browsers and consequently nobody uses in real webpages |
| 08:55.43 | xkr47 | ArkanoiD-.. what a nice nick :) |
| 08:55.57 | xkr47 | I've made an arkanoid clone :) |
| 08:56.09 | jacekowski | inz: not according to my measurments |
| 08:56.15 | xkr47 | I made it 12 years ago and last year I ported it to maemo |
| 08:56.20 | jacekowski | inz: esspecialy with 100+ tabs open |
| 08:56.20 | ArkanoiD- | :-) |
| 08:56.28 | xkr47 | it compiled right out of the box without ANY makefile or sourcecode changes at all |
| 08:56.28 | inz | jacekowski, ok; haven't tried myself, so can't argue. |
| 08:56.48 | xkr47 | I gotta say maemo build environment rocks |
| 08:56.55 | jacekowski | inz: but at 100+ tabs open firefox goes over 1G of ram |
| 08:57.01 | ArkanoiD- | actually it is client misconfiguration, arkanoid was busy on freenode so actually i registered as.. |
| 08:57.03 | jacekowski | inz: opera stays little below |
| 08:57.24 | inz | jacekowski, ok, most benchmarks I've seen use around 10 |
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| 08:58.04 | arkenoi | "Arkenoi" is some strange misspell invented by a journalist who wrote an article about me but failed to memorize my nick properly |
| 08:58.44 | arkenoi | and i adopted it since then to use on services where "arkanoid" is already occupied |
| 09:00.13 | johnx | I should register a UUID as a nick |
| 09:07.53 | popn1k | www is a disgusting pile of multicultural poo |
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| 09:28.30 | user | hello |
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| 09:31.31 | johnx | hallo user. new to IRC? |
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| 09:51.58 | Warmage | hello |
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| 09:54.39 | Warmage | all bots ! |
| 09:54.50 | johnx | yup |
| 09:55.00 | johnx | and people named 'user' :> |
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| 09:55.39 | johnx | it's the middle of the night in the Americas and middle of the work day in Europe. Might not be many people on |
| 09:56.42 | MohammadAG | lies, we're just lurking, waiting for something to happen |
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| 09:57.10 | Corsac | (more like beginning of work day) |
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| 09:59.12 | johnx | Corsac, it's already 11 in Denmark. Time to grab an early lunch :D |
| 09:59.33 | johnx | MohammadAG, nothing interesting from me tonight. maybe later |
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| 09:59.54 | Corsac | johnx: 11 here too, beginning of day work :) |
| 10:00.12 | MohammadAG | pictureflow's awesome |
| 10:00.18 | MohammadAG | need to get it into the mediaplayer :D |
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| 10:01.29 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, ping |
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| 10:02.02 | johnx | anyways, I'm off of to bed. 'night all |
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| 10:38.23 | Sicelo | wishes everyone a good time |
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| 10:59.49 | dany | hi there |
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| 11:05.56 | dany | hi there |
| 11:06.56 | dany | I have uninstalled the network-manager of my debian and put wicd but now the network (inside scratchbox) doesn't work anymore. Any idea? |
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| 11:09.01 | achipa | X-Fade: ping |
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| 11:11.53 | X-Fade | achipa: pong |
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| 11:16.13 | achipa | X-Fade: heya, remember that service-pack thingy ? it seems that the time is coming fo rit |
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| 11:16.57 | X-Fade | achipa: Ok, how would you suggest we do that? |
| 11:17.38 | achipa | the thing is - for this to work, NO ONE can depend on the constituents |
| 11:17.48 | achipa | as that blocks HAM components |
| 11:17.53 | achipa | upgrades, I mean |
| 11:18.12 | dany | no one? |
| 11:18.22 | *** part/#maemo The_Fellow1 (~spider1@glida.mooo.com) |
| 11:18.23 | achipa | dany: except the service pack |
| 11:18.37 | dany | achipa, what do you mean? |
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| 11:19.13 | achipa | HAM is a bit conservative (synonim for brain dead) with regard to upgrades |
| 11:19.34 | achipa | so iit's easy to get into a situation when your upgrade path is blocked |
| 11:19.35 | X-Fade | You guys are talking about 2 different things. |
| 11:19.46 | achipa | ok :) |
| 11:19.50 | X-Fade | So that is quite amusing to see, but confusing to you both :) |
| 11:19.57 | achipa | but anyway: |
| 11:20.05 | achipa | the course of action might be: |
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| 11:20.52 | achipa | 1. block auto-promotion of dependencies (currently qtquickcompat and libqt4-bearer-hotfix) |
| 11:21.29 | MohammadAG | achipa, or we could launch the SSU |
| 11:21.47 | achipa | 2. push mcsp (and with it qtquickcompat and libqt4-bearer-hotfix) to Extras when we make sure it works |
| 11:22.06 | achipa | MohammadAG: umm, the SSU is a third thing in this story |
| 11:22.17 | MohammadAG | how come? |
| 11:23.08 | achipa | the primary target of the mcsp is support for default firmwares and upcoming SDK releases |
| 11:23.38 | achipa | so yes, this stuff can be also part of the SSU, but it makes quite a bit of sense to provide it to people not having/wanting to go the SSU way |
| 11:24.01 | X-Fade | achipa: But how are we going to solve overwriting of installed packages? |
| 11:24.09 | X-Fade | achipa: Or do you want to do a parallel install? |
| 11:25.34 | achipa | we don't - the mcsp doesn't overwrite anything, it only applies fixes that are non-destructive/backwards compatible |
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| 11:26.11 | achipa | so it's not for things like, new Qt versions, etc |
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| 11:26.40 | achipa | but for small tidbits that CAN be applied without changing the PR content |
| 11:26.51 | achipa | (see the two current packages) |
| 11:27.29 | achipa | for stuff that DOES need replacing (as said, new Qt or other lib version) -> SSU |
| 11:27.31 | X-Fade | So you overwrite things in post-inst? |
| 11:27.47 | *** part/#maemo mardi (~mardi@78-86-170-4.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:28.13 | achipa | to reiterate - we don't overwrite :) at the moment these are only addons, not replacements |
| 11:28.45 | achipa | to be more clear - we don't sport anything that already exists |
| 11:29.01 | comawhite | is the 3g battery issue due to maemo or the phone itself? |
| 11:30.01 | achipa | that's why I say this is not at all like the SSU |
| 11:30.25 | X-Fade | achipa: And where would you want to host that? |
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| 11:30.36 | achipa | X-Fade: urrm, extras ? |
| 11:30.47 | achipa | (considering it's just extras software that would depend on it) |
| 11:31.16 | X-Fade | Yeah, ok. So we need to push it through all queues. |
| 11:31.26 | achipa | right |
| 11:33.12 | ShadowJK | comawhite, it's due to 3g |
| 11:34.36 | X-Fade | achipa: So, what is the plan? Create a package and test it in -devel? |
| 11:34.45 | achipa | yes |
| 11:35.24 | comawhite | ShadowJK: do other phones have the same problem? |
| 11:35.33 | ShadowJK | Yes |
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| 11:35.51 | achipa | there will also be a new mad developer release tying in, but the details of that are still being discussed |
| 11:35.58 | ShadowJK | 3g is not good for frequent low rate data |
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| 11:37.11 | comawhite | lame |
| 11:37.23 | comawhite | wtf i can't overclock due to uboot installed |
| 11:37.25 | comawhite | lame |
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| 11:52.17 | BCMM | anyone know if the N900's AV port is compatible with the ports on old Sony camcorders? do they have the contacts in the same order? |
| 11:52.50 | Ex-Opesa | Guys..All of my credit was gone. GPS is off. data-packages are off. Network positioning, gps is off. No calls were made. Then what could be the reason? :S |
| 11:53.13 | BCMM | Ex-Opesa: can't you ask your network? |
| 11:54.13 | Ex-Opesa | BCMM: I don't believe its there fault. I used ones 0.facebook.com but that is free (data package of course) do you think 'apt-get update' was done while I connected to internet to surf free 0.facebook.com? |
| 11:57.37 | Ex-Opesa | I am also sure only micrb used the inet while I was surfing free web... O_o |
| 12:01.18 | frals | update manager is done automatically when you go online afaik |
| 12:02.51 | frals | update check* |
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| 12:04.07 | nidO | yep, if you're past the interval since last check, connecting to the net will perform an update check immediately |
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| 12:05.39 | Ex-Opesa | I should have disabled it. Thanks frals, nidO. |
| 12:05.45 | ThreeM | good morning |
| 12:06.16 | Ex-Opesa | G'Morning, ThreeM! |
| 12:06.37 | ThreeM | only a few hours left, then i have my N900 |
| 12:06.58 | ThreeM | and my htc desire is history :) |
| 12:07.17 | nidO | just in time to probably get buyer's remorse in a month? |
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| 12:08.45 | ThreeM | no way :) |
| 12:09.16 | ThreeM | in the last 10 days i have testet 5 different phone models, and the N900 is the right one for me... |
| 12:09.42 | nidO | point is, mwc is in a month and the expectation is an n9 announcement from nokia |
| 12:10.03 | ThreeM | hmmm |
| 12:10.20 | MohammadAG | nidO, knowing nokia, that means a september release |
| 12:10.31 | nidO | quite possibly, but we'll see |
| 12:10.54 | MohammadAG | they really need to stick to one OS |
| 12:11.14 | MohammadAG | or distribute new phones with old OSs and make them upgradeable |
| 12:11.34 | ThreeM | but is N9 (meego) ready to marked? all i see on meego says: no the need more time |
| 12:11.45 | MohammadAG | release the N9 with Maemo 5, upgrade to meego later |
| 12:11.59 | ThreeM | that is an option :( |
| 12:12.17 | Noma | I saw N9 proto a month ago, the Meegon on it was readier than what we can get for N900 |
| 12:12.27 | nidO | that's bad for publicity though, because "we'll upgrade it, we promise" is a promise that people know gets broken daily, so the device would only get fairly low adoption until it actually happens |
| 12:12.27 | Noma | -n |
| 12:12.40 | kirma | noma: and that was really meego-harmattan |
| 12:12.48 | frals | hmm |
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| 12:12.50 | nidO | which is horrible in terms of publicity, as the initial sales figures for it will be crap |
| 12:12.53 | frals | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fmms/# |
| 12:12.57 | frals | why does that show 956k |
| 12:13.09 | Noma | kirma: probably |
| 12:13.10 | frals | when it should be 1mil+? :p |
| 12:13.33 | MohammadAG | frals, because. |
| 12:13.35 | frals | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:13.39 | frals | :[ |
| 12:14.11 | mece | frals, well boo-frackin-hoo :P |
| 12:14.40 | comawhite | how can i get fdisk on maemo? |
| 12:14.57 | kirma | unless something strange has happened since those couple months most people have seen N9, transition from meego-harmattan to meego-whatever will be the interesting point that might be keeping things back (?) |
| 12:15.21 | kirma | haven't played with "N9" myself, but everybody has couple friends and relatives... |
| 12:15.37 | ThreeM | arr no matteers. i expect that the N9 will not awailable within the next 5 months and i need a phone. if the N9 will be released at wmc, so ok then i get a litte pissed of, but not to much. |
| 12:16.22 | kirma | eh, so you're predestined yourself to be pissed off for nothing |
| 12:17.24 | ThreeM | i have money, so the disappointment will be not so big, maybe i can use the N900 after that as a devel platform and the N9 as my usable phone ;) |
| 12:17.30 | yacc | Anyone got an idea why with the power kernel, the /etc/network/interfaces definition of usb0 gets ignored? |
| 12:17.30 | alterego | The N9 is a way off yet |
| 12:17.40 | kirma | I'll certainly wait for MWC, and probably order one if they show sufficient hardware with sufficient promises on software. |
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| 12:17.48 | alterego | ThreeM: a great idea ;) |
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| 12:17.55 | djszapi | is there a way to ask with flasher what boot line parameters were passed ? |
| 12:18.13 | MohammadAG | default unless stated otherwise |
| 12:18.16 | Noma | that was kind of pity that I saw the N9, I can't wait to have it myself now :D |
| 12:18.25 | MohammadAG | and default CMDLINE is in kernel sources |
| 12:18.28 | ThreeM | alterego making the best of the situation if the N9 will be released sooner as i expectetd :) |
| 12:18.35 | MohammadAG | Noma, where exactly did you see it? |
| 12:18.43 | yacc | Any idea why the network/interfaces configuration is ignored with the power kernel? |
| 12:18.55 | kirma | problem with "N9" hardware is that they have to switch it to newer hardware soon if they want to keep it competetive on later launch |
| 12:18.59 | djszapi | MohammadAG: I do not care about default, my purpose is to ask them ANYTIME. |
| 12:19.03 | MohammadAG | I would assume that anyone who has it is under an NDA |
| 12:19.03 | alterego | ThreeM: sooner, not likely ;) |
| 12:19.06 | Noma | MohammadAG: Tampere University of Technology |
| 12:19.24 | alterego | ThreeM: expect the announcement 5 months before it's available :P |
| 12:19.40 | ThreeM | so im get it right :) |
| 12:19.45 | djszapi | MohammadAG: under NDA, yes. |
| 12:19.48 | djszapi | it is still prototype. |
| 12:19.50 | MohammadAG | Noma, so was it out in the public for everyone to see, or is someone breaking... |
| 12:20.04 | MohammadAG | NDA means you shouldn't know about it |
| 12:20.09 | ThreeM | anoncemed for september, nokia delay, so dezember the device is ready to ship |
| 12:20.15 | Noma | MohammadAG: no it wasn't |
| 12:20.23 | kirma | upgrading SoC and RAM is *relatively* easy as far as one stays on same SoC generation series, but if it's old stuff, it requires redesing :I |
| 12:20.27 | Noma | but I'm not going to tell whose it was :D |
| 12:20.50 | MohammadAG | well, at least it exists |
| 12:20.52 | djszapi | anybody for boot parameter, flasher ? :) |
| 12:21.06 | MohammadAG | you can't |
| 12:21.36 | djszapi | well, it is not true, I did it earlier. I do not just remember :P |
| 12:21.49 | Noma | but the display was amazing, horizontal resolution over 1000 pixels :) |
| 12:21.52 | MohammadAG | --help then |
| 12:22.13 | djszapi | Noma: please stop talking about a prototype if it is not public information. |
| 12:22.14 | chx | by the time N9 releases, if ever , it will be irrelevant again |
| 12:22.23 | Noma | djszapi: well ok :) |
| 12:23.53 | djszapi | mmh, that is the only query flag I see in the helper output: --query-rd-mode |
| 12:23.58 | djszapi | it sucks then :) |
| 12:24.01 | *** part/#maemo mhmh (~mh@moff.pucko.org) |
| 12:24.27 | djszapi | default CMDLINE in the kernel sources...where exactly ? |
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| 12:26.39 | MohammadAG | djszapi, kernel sources |
| 12:26.49 | MohammadAG | check h-e-n's garage page git |
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| 12:27.09 | MohammadAG | you'll find it in arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig |
| 12:27.10 | achipa | noma: I'm not sure you are familiar with what you saw, but anyway, there might be a high concentration of Nokians here, y'know :) |
| 12:27.27 | Noma | yep |
| 12:27.47 | MohammadAG | achipa, s/might/is/ :P |
| 12:28.12 | djszapi | MohammadAG: grab for what ? |
| 12:28.15 | djszapi | still vague. |
| 12:28.31 | djszapi | CONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 console=ttyS2,115200n8" ? |
| 12:28.49 | achipa | kirma: without inferring anythin about the the current case, it's not that easy - your thermal envelope changes, power specs, you might have contractual obligations, etc, etc - so not something you change in a blink of an eye |
| 12:28.59 | MohammadAG | i thought it had some dac lines there |
| 12:29.15 | djszapi | dac lines ? |
| 12:29.34 | kirma | true, but at least there's a *chance* you can do it meaningfully without whole PCB redesign and so on |
| 12:29.39 | MohammadAG | yes, basically speaker limits |
| 12:30.33 | kirma | and that can be taken into account in advance without building two entirely separate prototypes |
| 12:30.50 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 12:30.50 | kirma | but I admit I'm not EE |
| 12:31.19 | MohammadAG | +CONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6" |
| 12:31.27 | MohammadAG | djszapi, that |
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| 12:34.14 | djszapi | does maemo5 already use the upstart way ? |
| 12:34.24 | djszapi | I would guess so. |
| 12:34.42 | MohammadAG | why not? it's fast |
| 12:35.03 | djszapi | yeah, but I do not see any upstart messages during the boot-up, dunno why. |
| 12:35.33 | MohammadAG | recompile kernel with framebuffer enabled |
| 12:36.14 | djszapi | well, I am supposed to see it by default. |
| 12:36.21 | MohammadAG | nope |
| 12:37.00 | djszapi | nope ? |
| 12:37.27 | djszapi | CONFIG_FB=y |
| 12:37.32 | djszapi | so it should work... |
| 12:37.44 | MohammadAG | CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE |
| 12:37.59 | djszapi | mmh. |
| 12:38.03 | MohammadAG | or whatever, it has FRAMEBUFFER in it |
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| 12:49.07 | djszapi | well MohammadAG, I always thought upstart messages comes by default in any distribution |
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| 12:50.32 | jonwil | Can anyone tell me what libcal is for? |
| 12:51.35 | SpeedEvil | reading and writing the 'cal' area in the flash IIRC. |
| 12:51.36 | Appiah | "libcal provides an api to read and modify the calibration data area on Nokia internet tablets" |
| 12:52.33 | jonwil | ok, that answers the question of why it needs to remain closed then :) |
| 12:53.33 | Appiah | yupp thats why it's in "nokia-binaries" |
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| 12:55.41 | yacc | http://pastebin.com/fui7BjiY <= what's wrong with this, I'm always getting on ifup: ifdown: don't seem to have all the variables for usb0/inet |
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| 12:57.01 | alterego | Eh? |
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| 12:58.53 | alterego | yacc: http://pastie.org/1456057 |
| 12:59.19 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 12:59.23 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: pong |
| 12:59.58 | alterego | yacc: that'll ensure your N900 keeps the same MAC address so you can use ubuntu network-manager or whatever to auto-configure your usb network on the host pc end. |
| 13:00.14 | alterego | Obviously change the host_addr= to something else for your N900 to use :) |
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| 13:00.52 | yacc | alterego, but I want the n900 to do a DHCP query? |
| 13:01.38 | alterego | yacc: then: http://pastie.org/1456057 |
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| 13:03.11 | yacc | alterego, I've pasted your interfaces file with dhcp, and I get: |
| 13:03.13 | yacc | Nokia-N900:~# ifup usb0 |
| 13:03.14 | yacc | ifup: don't seem to have all the variables for usb0/inet |
| 13:04.02 | alterego | Hrm, ang on then |
| 13:05.00 | lardman | hello chaps |
| 13:05.32 | alterego | yacc: not sure then, probably something lame with busybox .. |
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| 13:27.09 | *** join/#maemo toadpole (~toadpole@61.11.23.97) |
| 13:28.06 | toadpole | can someone help me with removing a half-installed app? i installed mobile maps 10 from ovi, and the install failed.. it doesn't show in app manager, but there is an icon in the menu which doesn't do anything... tried manual install over it, doesn't work |
| 13:28.50 | BCMM | toadpole: does apt-get remove work? |
| 13:29.18 | toadpole | what do i ask it to remove? |
| 13:29.29 | BCMM | toadpole: the name of the package |
| 13:30.10 | toadpole | where would one see that? the .deb file name? |
| 13:31.08 | toadpole | because the package doesn't show in app man |
| 13:31.15 | toadpole | so i dunno what its called |
| 13:31.32 | BCMM | toadpole: apt-cache search searchterm |
| 13:31.42 | BCMM | where searchterm could be the "pretty" name of the app |
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| 13:32.38 | yacc | alterego, yeah, makes one wonder, but in this specific case, as I'm master of all involved parts, I think the dhcp-server will survive being ignored ;) |
| 13:33.12 | toadpole | not installed, so not removed |
| 13:33.43 | toadpole | is what it says |
| 13:33.54 | alterego | yacc: you could try manual instead of static or dhcp |
| 13:34.00 | alterego | And get it to run udhcp .. |
| 13:34.11 | BCMM | toadpole: well, try one of apt-get remove or apt-get install on it |
| 13:34.15 | ThreeM | toadpole try apt-get install -f |
| 13:34.39 | yacc | So what, I've been collecting mac addresses and making the assignments permanent on the DHCP server for some days now, so I don't see much point in it. |
| 13:34.48 | toadpole | remove gave that error, what does -f do? |
| 13:35.18 | yacc | Now I wonder if there is some startup script that gets run on boot or if I need to play with upstart. |
| 13:35.28 | yacc | toadpole, it tells apt-get to try to fix the problem. |
| 13:35.49 | yacc | toadpole, it calculates a solution to the problem and shows it to you for approval. |
| 13:36.08 | lardman | when you start installing the package it makes a note of which it was so it can recover if it fails part way |
| 13:36.19 | lardman | i.e. that package is then selected (iirc) |
| 13:36.20 | toadpole | ( eMHa ): Handler silently failed |
| 13:36.36 | lardman | out of space? Corrupted .deb? |
| 13:36.53 | comawhite | is it safe to uninstall uboot and it return back to normal? |
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| 13:37.30 | lardman | I think you need to flash the kernel over the top of it don;'t you? |
| 13:37.31 | toadpole | i have no idea how it happened, i'd tried installing from ovi store, it got stuck halfway and stayed that way for 3 hours... i rebooted then |
| 13:38.22 | toadpole | with apt-get purge help? |
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| 13:38.40 | toadpole | *will |
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| 13:39.38 | toadpole | looks like not.. same thing, not installed so not removed |
| 13:42.11 | toadpole | how about force install a .deb? |
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| 13:47.02 | toadpole | well, thanks BCMM, yacc, lardman |
| 13:47.31 | lardman | yeah there's a keyword to force install |
| 13:47.36 | lardman | ah well, too late |
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| 13:51.49 | [DrkGUNMAN-N900] | afternoon. bloody slow day! |
| 13:52.49 | cruster | Hi there! Could someone tell me the contents of /home in maemo os(specifically on a n900). Thanks |
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| 13:55.17 | khertan_ | cruster: folders and files |
| 13:57.01 | cruster | @khertan_: you know exactly which ones? Surely there is the user folder. Any other folder? |
| 13:58.14 | nidO | user and opt, are the important ones |
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| 14:07.38 | cruster | @khertan_: I had some disconnects,did you send any other message? |
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| 14:19.10 | dmotd | xchat maemo version is awesome!! thanks!! |
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| 14:20.35 | djszapi | MohammadAG: well it works like a charm by my colleague with no framebuffer config option, enabled. |
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| 14:25.07 | E0x | any trick for get less noise picture ( n900 ) |
| 14:25.39 | chx | yes, use a real camera or light the subject (helpful is my middle name) |
| 14:26.18 | E0x | chx: i can give you my address so you can send me a "real camera" because i don't have one |
| 14:26.20 | E0x | :D |
| 14:27.53 | nidO | have you tried taking an hdr photo of what you're after? |
| 14:28.07 | mairas_ | X-Fade, are the maemo.org ml archives belly-up? |
| 14:28.24 | mairas_ | no updates in extras-cauldron-builds since Sunday |
| 14:28.39 | E0x | nidO: normal photo in low light condition |
| 14:28.57 | E0x | but something with enough light get a lot noise too |
| 14:29.07 | nidO | laws of physics say youll get noise, hence my suggestion to take an hdr photo instead. |
| 14:29.10 | E0x | the only good photo is with sunny days |
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| 14:33.03 | X-Fade | mairas_: Nice an quiet, right? :) |
| 14:33.22 | brik | E0x: have you tried blessn900? |
| 14:33.23 | X-Fade | mairas_: It seems mailman on garage crapped out. It seems to work now. |
| 14:33.53 | mairas_ | X-Fade, thanks :-) |
| 14:34.09 | mairas_ | X-Fade, yep, noisier again |
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| 14:34.27 | dany | hi there |
| 14:34.33 | X-Fade | mairas_: good, i guess... |
| 14:34.50 | E0x | brik: no , is good ? |
| 14:34.51 | mairas_ | X-Fade, I'll also be bugging you about the web server statistics - tomorrow |
| 14:34.58 | mairas_ | (if you're around) |
| 14:34.58 | dany | do you know what graphic libraries can I use on the n900? openGL isn't available |
| 14:35.41 | brik | E0x: it will improve photos taken in low light a lot |
| 14:35.52 | brik | somewhat less noisy at least |
| 14:35.52 | javispedro | dany: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL-ES |
| 14:35.52 | E0x | thx brik i will try it |
| 14:36.10 | dany | javispedro, I know but it is uncomplete |
| 14:36.15 | javispedro | dany: In what sense? |
| 14:36.20 | dany | it is not the full opengl |
| 14:36.28 | dany | it is limitated |
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| 14:37.02 | javispedro | you will need to workaround whatever functionaly from the full GL you need. |
| 14:37.35 | dany | javispedro, so you're saying that it's possible to port every openGL application using the openGL-ES? |
| 14:37.45 | javispedro | yes, with more or less effort. |
| 14:37.54 | javispedro | oh, gtg. sorry |
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| 14:39.35 | dany | javispredo, but using other libraries? |
| 14:39.46 | yacc | What do I need to do to reload the event.d scripts? |
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| 14:41.34 | alterego | It's possible to write good GLES2 code that runs perfectly in GLES2 and in desktop GL environment. |
| 14:43.19 | dany | cool |
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| 15:20.15 | auenf | hmm, transformers shockwave is a missing package on the ovi repo? |
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| 15:24.13 | blackthorne | hi |
| 15:24.24 | blackthorne | i want to program a GUI app for maemo |
| 15:24.49 | blackthorne | is there any visual tool to design graphical user interfaces for maemo using libs like qt or gtk? |
| 15:25.10 | blackthorne | I really care about designing these tools in a visual environment |
| 15:25.21 | lcuk | qt |
| 15:25.40 | alterego | blackthorne: download the latest Nokia Qt SDK, |
| 15:25.44 | NIN101 | qt-designer |
| 15:25.44 | blackthorne | qt creator? |
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| 15:26.00 | blackthorne | I know it, but does it work on maemo? |
| 15:26.07 | alterego | Qt Creator has Qt Designer integrated with it which provides wysiwyg ui editor. |
| 15:26.12 | blackthorne | qt designer seems to be desktop oriented |
| 15:26.37 | alterego | You want to design the UIs _on_ the N900? Rather than design them on the deszktop and run them on the N900? |
| 15:26.48 | blackthorne | no |
| 15:27.14 | MohammadAG | Qt Designer's awesome |
| 15:27.35 | MohammadAG | QtGtkStyle handles styling so apps look like gtk ones |
| 15:27.54 | NIN101 | but what I don't like that the size of buttons I see isn't really what I get on the n900 then with hildon. |
| 15:28.13 | MohammadAG | you should use layouts anyway |
| 15:28.26 | NIN101 | yes, thats probably true. |
| 15:28.32 | blackthorne | but considering the differences on the screen size, ... |
| 15:29.22 | MohammadAG | 800x480 should be the same |
| 15:29.41 | MohammadAG | but hildon's buttons are kinda big |
| 15:30.06 | lcuk | "visible from orbit" is a button size I like |
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| 15:30.34 | lardman | would like buttons with kb shortcuts :p |
| 15:30.58 | blackthorne | is the Qt code |
| 15:31.02 | lcuk | would like bacon release mechanism |
| 15:31.05 | blackthorne | the same that runs on a PC ? |
| 15:31.14 | lardman | mmm |
| 15:31.20 | lcuk | blackthorne, as long as you stick within the qt api, yes |
| 15:31.23 | MohammadAG | that's the whole point of Qt isn't it |
| 15:31.23 | blackthorne | don't they use other libs? |
| 15:31.29 | blackthorne | for mobile devices, I mean |
| 15:31.34 | lcuk | once you start to add OS specific function calls you break the cross compatability |
| 15:31.34 | blackthorne | that's awesome! |
| 15:31.48 | MohammadAG | unless you use #ifdefs! |
| 15:31.53 | lcuk | just like you can make Qt apps, but call into Windows API |
| 15:32.00 | lcuk | nukes MohammadAG from orbit |
| 15:32.15 | lcuk | ifdefs make eyes bleed |
| 15:32.17 | alterego | I swear we get some right weirdos on tmo .. |
| 15:32.36 | MohammadAG | alterego, took you long to notice |
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| 15:32.54 | MohammadAG | lcuk, sometimes, an API is stupid and you have to turn to your own implementation :p |
| 15:33.07 | MohammadAG | looks at sensors API |
| 15:33.12 | lcuk | MohammadAG, no - you file a bug |
| 15:33.27 | lcuk | or discuss with the designers of sensors api and offer a patch |
| 15:33.35 | lcuk | that way, you get what you want and everyone else does too |
| 15:33.43 | lcuk | and you retain cross compatible use |
| 15:34.10 | lcuk | so download sensorapi, make the changes there, offer a MR to the guys |
| 15:34.21 | lcuk | along with a description of why you needed to do it |
| 15:34.29 | blackthorne | is there dropbox for n900? |
| 15:34.42 | lcuk | theres n900fly |
| 15:34.59 | blackthorne | what about git? |
| 15:35.01 | lcuk | but in general for all "is there X package for n900", see here http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 15:35.15 | lcuk | it has a handy search which also shows which repo things are in ;) |
| 15:35.23 | MohammadAG | <lcuk> theres n900fly LOL |
| 15:44.52 | ZogG | MohammadAG, |
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| 15:46.49 | ZogG | your media bar is turning on everytime i call/answer the phone |
| 15:47.15 | ZogG | what is the difference beteen designer and qt designer |
| 15:47.25 | ZogG | i have both in menu and they look wierdly different |
| 15:47.44 | ZogG | first is 4.7.1 and other is 2.0.0 =) |
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| 15:49.10 | ZogG | oops my mistake |
| 15:49.16 | ZogG | one was creaor |
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| 15:49.36 | ZogG | but still somehow i have 2 creators and designers in my system |
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| 15:51.34 | Mece | frals, hey you know things about pidgins, right? |
| 15:51.48 | Mece | and by pidgins I mean dbus calls actually. |
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| 15:55.53 | Mece | hm oh well. |
| 15:56.14 | ZogG | damn |
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| 15:57.40 | Mece | ZogG, ? |
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| 15:58.01 | ZogG | i have installed qt-creator twice |
| 15:58.06 | ZogG | manually |
| 15:58.34 | ZogG | and even don't know where source files and how to get rid of one of them at least |
| 15:58.55 | DocScrutinizer | ([2011-01-13 16:30:34] * lardman would like buttons with kb shortcuts :p) FULL ACK |
| 15:58.56 | ZogG | meanwhile i don't feel installing it from portage as it wants so many dependies |
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| 15:59.10 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer hey robot, sup? |
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| 16:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: but... has anybody ever tried to include acce&lerator marks to buttons - on maemo qt? maybe they work and simply nobody is using them :-P |
| 16:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | wait, for buttons the code was slightly different iirc |
| 16:04.08 | Mece | hey, how would I go about checking if the screen is dark from a Qt app? |
| 16:04.49 | DocScrutinizer | Mece: read out all pixels and compare to a threshold color value? |
| 16:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | Mece: seriously what do you want to do? |
| 16:05.28 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: good idea |
| 16:05.45 | lardman | Mece: backlight you mean? |
| 16:06.11 | Mece | well, I want do do a thing if app is not in focus or screen is locked. yes lardman. if screen is locked or just blacked |
| 16:06.26 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: I guess he means screen lock |
| 16:06.40 | Mece | if I leave the phone w/ keyboard open, it is not locked but black. |
| 16:06.40 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
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| 16:06.58 | Mece | because if I tap it it wakes up. |
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| 16:07.12 | Mece | so that's why i said black, but yeah, locked. |
| 16:07.47 | lardman | there are events you can receive |
| 16:07.51 | ghostcube_maemo | hi folks. is there any news for flash 10? |
| 16:08.06 | DocScrutinizer | either you find a signal on dbus which is sent by mce to notify screen dimming and undimming, or you read out /sys for backlight brightness |
| 16:08.15 | Mece | i don't need events, I want to do a check. |
| 16:08.52 | Mece | like if (screenLocked) go ape. |
| 16:09.08 | DocScrutinizer | maybe it's safe enough for your usecase to assume screen is locked when backlight is at level 0 |
| 16:09.33 | DocScrutinizer | it's not a proper idicator though for mce having locked it |
| 16:09.34 | MohammadAG | Mece, there's a class in qt-mediaplayer |
| 16:09.34 | lardman | Mece: isActiveWindow() ? |
| 16:09.43 | lardman | QApplication method |
| 16:09.43 | MohammadAG | isScreenLocked() |
| 16:10.05 | lardman | s/method/property |
| 16:10.06 | DocScrutinizer | or that :-D |
| 16:10.13 | MohammadAG | http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer |
| 16:10.25 | alterego | I'm thinking of writing a small Qt ui that allows you to select .iso images or .bin files to use when using usb in file storage mode. |
| 16:10.25 | lardman | though that can indicate the app is bg'ed |
| 16:10.45 | lardman | to use for what? |
| 16:11.09 | Mece | MohammadAG, oh? that easy? |
| 16:11.11 | Mece | wow. |
| 16:11.12 | alterego | Well, for me, it means I can have 32bit and 64bit ubuntu install cds |
| 16:11.12 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: ?? exporting lopmounted .iso? |
| 16:11.20 | MohammadAG | Mece, yes, i'm awesome like that |
| 16:11.20 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: no |
| 16:11.24 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 16:11.25 | alterego | Not loopmounted .. |
| 16:12.01 | lardman | ah I see |
| 16:12.32 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: why not loopmounted? what else? |
| 16:12.48 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: What has loop mounting got to do with g_file_storage? |
| 16:13.01 | alterego | That's just plain stupid. |
| 16:13.11 | lardman | so what are you trying to achieve? |
| 16:13.21 | lardman | has been up for too many hours today |
| 16:13.25 | alterego | Basically, turning the N900 into install medium |
| 16:13.42 | blue_led | anyone know for what prupose is used /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/overlay1 ? |
| 16:14.07 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: what do you think is g_file_storage exporting? |
| 16:14.15 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: a file |
| 16:14.24 | ShadowJK | wonders if one is for video on lcd and other for video on tvout |
| 16:14.24 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: the mounting is done on the host machine .. |
| 16:14.26 | lardman | blue_led: from a quick google, that's the fb overlay |
| 16:14.37 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 16:14.44 | lardman | which includes TV out functionality |
| 16:14.48 | alterego | So, wtf are you talking about? |
| 16:15.18 | DocScrutinizer | MyDocs is a file? |
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| 16:15.23 | lardman | alterego: but what are you doing then? copying the right file to the partition which will be mounted? |
| 16:15.44 | alterego | 1. plugin in n900 via usb. 2. select 32-bit ubuntu installation .iso image. 3. Start machine. |
| 16:15.49 | DocScrutinizer | /dev/mmcblk1p1 is a file? |
| 16:15.55 | alterego | Then the machine will start an installation of 32bit linux |
| 16:16.09 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: mmcblk1 actually .. |
| 16:16.13 | lardman | so what do you need the ui for? |
| 16:16.22 | alterego | mmcblk0 and mmblk1 |
| 16:16.41 | alterego | lardman: To make it easy to switch between .iso images and the default N900s behaviour? |
| 16:16.43 | DocScrutinizer | actually everything's a file on unix X-P |
| 16:16.57 | blue_led | i have overlay2 and i can adjust tv image size by modifing values on overlay2 but question about overlay1 still here. |
| 16:17.03 | alterego | I don't want to have to modprobe manually each time. |
| 16:17.17 | lardman | alterego: so your ui will copy one or other of the files to e.g. MyDocs, then modprobe g_storage or words to that effect |
| 16:17.18 | lardman | ? |
| 16:17.34 | alterego | At my previous job this would have been really useful, as we use usb devices to flash firmware and configuration onto some embedded devices. |
| 16:17.41 | alterego | lardman: no |
| 16:17.47 | ShadowJK | blue_led, is one for yuv and other the standard rgb? |
| 16:17.54 | lardman | blue_led: dunno off the top of my head, check out the kernel driver code comments |
| 16:18.11 | alterego | lardman: my program will insmod g_file_storage telling it to use some .iso instead of /dev/mmcblk0 and /dev/mmcblk1 |
| 16:18.40 | lardman | ah, I see |
| 16:18.40 | alterego | The UI is to just make it user friendly when selecting a target image. |
| 16:18.40 | ShadowJK | alterego, you might have to use loop device |
| 16:18.46 | alterego | ShadowJK: no, I don't. |
| 16:19.01 | alterego | I know it'll work, what I don't know is why you're all questoning it? :P |
| 16:19.05 | lardman | assuming the PC knows the format of the fs it should work ok |
| 16:19.10 | ShadowJK | oh, tried it manually that it works with regular files? |
| 16:19.23 | mece | MohammadAG, hmm I don't see a isScreenActive method anywhere... |
| 16:19.25 | alterego | It would allow you to have a load of .iso images stored on your N900 and at any given moment make the N900 act like that image. |
| 16:19.38 | alterego | ShadowJK: that's how it works. |
| 16:19.48 | ShadowJK | ? |
| 16:20.08 | alterego | ShadowJK: there's no try. g_file_storage exports a usb mass storage device where the blocks are a file on the device. |
| 16:20.28 | alterego | for instance: modprobe g_file_storage file=/home/user/some.iso |
| 16:20.28 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: I wasn't sure if g_file_storage is exporting the phy dev or the mounted fs. So I thought you loopmount your ISO to export the mountpoint |
| 16:20.40 | alterego | Or: modprobe g_file_storage file=/dev/mmcblk0 |
| 16:20.46 | alterego | No |
| 16:20.51 | MohammadAG | mece, class Maemo5DeviceEvents |
| 16:20.56 | alterego | g_file_storage doesn't work like that. |
| 16:21.18 | ShadowJK | Well I don't think you'd mount it, but you'd use loop device without mounting to create a block device out of the regular file |
| 16:21.23 | mece | MohammadAG, where is this? |
| 16:21.40 | DocScrutinizer | obviously, otherwise you wouldn't have to umount MyDocs prior to exporting it :-D |
| 16:21.48 | lardman | mece: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qwidget.html#isActiveWindow-prop |
| 16:21.52 | MohammadAG | mece, check mediabar's source, i use it there too |
| 16:21.58 | alterego | ShadowJK: you obviously don't get what I'm talking about :P |
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| 16:22.36 | lardman | mece: but go for MohammadAG's suggestion for the isLocked() prop |
| 16:22.37 | DocScrutinizer | no, I actually think ShadowJK got a point there |
| 16:22.39 | lardman | I presume |
| 16:23.01 | alterego | ShadowJK: not necessary |
| 16:23.11 | ShadowJK | alterego, I'm questioning whether g_file_storage knows to use bmap and friends to get the blocks of a regular file so it can export it |
| 16:23.12 | alterego | ShadowJK: g_file_storage is designed to work with files .. |
| 16:23.15 | lardman | as g_storage can take a file |
| 16:23.17 | mece | ok.. I'm currently using QApplication::focusWidget() != NULL |
| 16:23.18 | alterego | I've just told you it does. |
| 16:23.24 | alterego | I KNOW IT WORKS! ffs |
| 16:23.44 | alterego | I'm too ill and cranky O_O |
| 16:23.50 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 16:23.56 | MohammadAG | hides |
| 16:24.02 | lardman | hands alterego some beer to cure his illness |
| 16:24.03 | DocScrutinizer | I don't need to be ill for that :-P |
| 16:24.09 | mece | and that doesn't work. well it works if the app is minimized or you're looking at something else, but not if the app is active and the screen is locked. |
| 16:24.09 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:24.23 | alterego | I did say, several times, it works, I know it works ... |
| 16:24.27 | ShadowJK | You know, you could just have pasted one line from the module |
| 16:24.55 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: a nice idea anyway |
| 16:25.07 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:25.18 | alterego | Yeah, I'm just thinking how to do it. |
| 16:25.28 | DocScrutinizer | I guess you would want to tweak ke_rcv or sth like that |
| 16:25.35 | alterego | Well, how to do it "properly" as to maintain stability and usability etc. |
| 16:25.44 | alterego | Yeah, exactly. |
| 16:26.33 | DocScrutinizer | wonders idly what a fsckdup acronym ke_rcv might be |
| 16:26.47 | alterego | ke_recv I thought :P |
| 16:26.56 | DocScrutinizer | whatever |
| 16:27.36 | alterego | Hrm, |
| 16:27.36 | DocScrutinizer | unless I figure what it means, I'll never manage to recall correctly |
| 16:27.41 | alterego | thinks of a name for this app. |
| 16:27.49 | alterego | kernel event receiver? |
| 16:27.52 | alterego | Or something? |
| 16:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | oooh, thanks alterego |
| 16:28.18 | alterego | :) |
| 16:28.39 | alterego | I'm thinking "USB Storage Selector" |
| 16:28.48 | alterego | Or "USB Storage Configurator" |
| 16:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | or "virtual CD" |
| 16:29.14 | alterego | Pfft, I could make it a control panel applet and call it "USB Storage" |
| 16:29.42 | alterego | Yeah, I've got a plan slightly larger than CDs and it's not limited to CDs anyway. |
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| 16:34.25 | mece | MohammadAG, so I guess it's easiest to just include that class directly. |
| 16:34.35 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 16:34.43 | mece | MohammadAG, if that's ok with you? |
| 16:36.08 | ZogG | i hate qt |
| 16:36.14 | ZogG | seriously |
| 16:36.28 | ZogG | it's pain in the a** |
| 16:36.37 | ZogG | i hate it so much |
| 16:36.41 | lardman | ZogG: it gets better |
| 16:36.47 | ZogG | no it's not |
| 16:36.51 | BCMM | ZogG: use pure xlib |
| 16:36.52 | lardman | I'm almost a C++ convert now |
| 16:36.58 | BCMM | it won't help, but you'll stop hating Qt |
| 16:37.28 | ZogG | BCMM, do you use gtk+ DE or KDE? |
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| 16:37.39 | ZogG | i'm trying to emerge qt-creator |
| 16:37.47 | ZogG | so it asked me to change flags |
| 16:37.52 | epp | is there a way to change the RDS text output by the fm transmitter? |
| 16:38.03 | epp | I see the app to show calls and texts but i want it to stay static |
| 16:38.47 | BCMM | ZogG: i use kde, why? |
| 16:39.15 | BCMM | ZogG: change which flags? the flags Qt is built with? |
| 16:39.16 | ZogG | BCMM, it asked me so set use flags for qt-* packages |
| 16:39.17 | ZogG | i set |
| 16:39.24 | ZogG | now it asked to unset some of them |
| 16:39.26 | ZogG | i did that too |
| 16:39.32 | ZogG | it asked to set them back |
| 16:39.36 | BCMM | ZogG: which flags did it want? |
| 16:39.38 | ZogG | and it's like forever in loop |
| 16:40.07 | BCMM | ZogG: if it helps, i had no trouble building creator on gentoo, and i have (exceptions glib iconv pch qt3support ssl -aqua -debug -doc -optimized-qmake) for qt-core |
| 16:40.50 | ZogG | BCMM you use qt anyway |
| 16:41.04 | ZogG | i have only qt core qt gui and maybe qt opengl |
| 16:41.33 | BCMM | ZogG: yeah, you're gonna need Qt to do Qt development... |
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| 16:42.03 | DocScrutinizer | epp: so tweak the call&mp3-text app |
| 16:42.22 | ZogG | BCMM so trying to instal it |
| 16:42.24 | ZogG | lemme show |
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| 16:42.33 | ZogG | http://i.imgur.com/HoOVe.png |
| 16:42.37 | ZogG | here we go |
| 16:43.08 | BCMM | that's one way to show me the output of a command... |
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| 16:44.21 | BCMM | ZogG: it looks like it requires that assistant and the rest of Qt match, in terms of the debug flag |
| 16:44.22 | lolcat | You have gento on your phone? |
| 16:44.33 | BCMM | (and qt3support) |
| 16:44.47 | BCMM | lolcat: i think he's trying to do qt development on a gentoo desktop] |
| 16:45.04 | alterego | woof |
| 16:45.11 | blue_led | @epp :fmtx_client |
| 16:46.40 | lolcat | BCMM: On his phone? Oo |
| 16:47.09 | BCMM | lolcat: no, i think he's developing *for* the phone |
| 16:47.40 | lolcat | BCMM: IIRC it is a UMPC with phone capabilities, not a phone. |
| 16:48.32 | BCMM | ZogG: did that work? |
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| 16:49.13 | ZogG | BCMM, man i hate qt, why does gtk doesn't have those problems |
| 16:49.42 | alterego | What problems? |
| 16:49.44 | BCMM | ZogG: GTK is just a GUI lib. |
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| 16:49.47 | lolcat | I think qt is brilliant, if you say it it sounds like cutie! |
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| 16:49.57 | BCMM | ZogG: Qt is much more than that, so gentoo splits it up into seperate ebuilds |
| 16:50.10 | alterego | lolcat: it's meant to be just "cute" actually :P |
| 16:50.12 | BCMM | ZogG: the only problem here is that you're trying to mix-and-match debugging support for them |
| 16:50.30 | BCMM | ZogG: set the debug and qt3support flags for all qt components or for none of them |
| 16:50.55 | alterego | Qt is more like, gtk + glib + glib-gobject + pango + cairo + a load of other stuff |
| 16:50.57 | BCMM | (and even if there is a real problem, it's with gentoo, not Qt) |
| 16:51.57 | lolcat | alterego: I pronounce it as CUTIE! |
| 16:52.42 | ZogG | x11-libs/qt-sql-4.7.1-r1 (Change USE: +debug +qt3support) |
| 16:52.45 | ZogG | - x11-libs/qt-assistant-4.7.1 (Change USE: -debug -qt3support) |
| 16:52.47 | ZogG | BCMM, |
| 16:53.04 | alterego | lolcat: well, you'd be laughed at if you said that at a conference :P |
| 16:53.31 | alterego | ZogG:you're issue is gentoo is a shit |
| 16:53.37 | ZogG | lolcat is not like longcat anyway |
| 16:53.46 | lolcat | I don't go to confrences, I don't go outside, period. |
| 16:53.54 | ZogG | alterego, no it's not, it's all dependies in Qt |
| 16:53.57 | alterego | Install a real distro and continue using gentoo as the toy it is |
| 16:54.04 | ZogG | always happened to me for qt releated stuff |
| 16:54.16 | alterego | m'hmm ... |
| 16:54.17 | BCMM | ZogG: "one of" |
| 16:54.33 | BCMM | alterego: gentoo's ok, he's just using it oddly |
| 16:54.42 | BCMM | lets not have a distro flamewar |
| 16:54.52 | ZogG | alterego, are you serious? if in "real" distro it just installs everythingm and i men everything in qt it doesn't mean it's good if you even don't need half of it. stick to ubuntu pal =) |
| 16:55.00 | BCMM | lolcat: if you don't go outside, why do you need a smartphone? |
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| 16:55.11 | alterego | People use it, they complain at other projects when they know it's the fact that Gentoo package management is retarded. |
| 16:55.18 | alterego | But that is all I have to say on the matter :P |
| 16:55.22 | BCMM | ZogG: have you tried just setting the debug and qt3support flags consistently? |
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| 16:56.17 | ZogG | alterego, lol, if they just use so complicated structure that everything depends on everything i wish like for Qt and KDE to make their own KDEdistro |
| 16:56.44 | ZogG | BCMM everytime i change flag they ask to change it bakc and than back and so on on loop |
| 16:56.48 | ZogG | i give up |
| 16:56.56 | BCMM | ZogG: have you tried setting them *consistently* yet? |
| 16:57.28 | alterego | ZogG: debian, ubuntu, fedora, suse don't have this problem. Ask yourself, what are you actually gaining using gentoo? |
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| 16:58.06 | BCMM | ZogG: this would be most easilly achieved by removing all reference to qt in package.use and setting qt3support globally |
| 16:58.09 | BCMM | please, please try that |
| 16:58.29 | ZogG | do not want |
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| 16:58.42 | ZogG | i have things i don't qwant qt or qt3support |
| 16:58.47 | ZogG | i don't use qt |
| 16:58.51 | ZogG | and don't like it |
| 16:58.59 | ZogG | so i wated to set the minimum |
| 16:59.02 | BCMM | ZogG: qt3support only applies to qt ebuilds, and i didn't ask you to touch the qt flag |
| 16:59.25 | BCMM | ZogG: qt3support is Qt4's stuff for making ports of qt3 stuff easier |
| 16:59.44 | ZogG | alterego, the problem is here if you like your distro to set things for you instead of you and if you install package to install it with everything even if you don't need it - use windows =) |
| 16:59.52 | ZogG | BCMM i know |
| 17:00.10 | BCMM | ZogG: so setting qt3support globally won't effect anything but Qt packages! |
| 17:02.38 | BCMM | ZogG: so what's the problem with just setting qt3support globally? |
| 17:02.59 | epp | soooo i installed multiboot kernel, it lagged up my phone so I tried to go back to kernel power, it wouldnt so i installed normal kernel, tried upgrading after than but i still cant overclock |
| 17:03.20 | BCMM | ZogG: oh, and once you've got the flags set consistently, it may choke on which order to do stuff in, so just uninstall the current Qt mess and start again |
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| 17:04.30 | ZogG | same thing |
| 17:04.36 | ZogG | x11-libs/qt-declarative-4.7.1-r2 (Change USE: -qt3support) |
| 17:04.36 | ZogG | - x11-libs/qt-assistant-4.7.1 (Change USE: +qt3support) |
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| 17:05.20 | alterego | Do you have KDE installed? |
| 17:05.26 | ZogG | hiow it can ask me x11-libs/qt-sql-4.7.1-r1 (Change USE: +qt3support) |
| 17:05.30 | alterego | Just install Nokia Qt SDK ... |
| 17:05.34 | ZogG | if i have qt3support globally |
| 17:05.37 | alterego | It has all the libs in there. |
| 17:05.43 | ZogG | alterego just deleted it =) |
| 17:05.52 | BCMM | ZogG: that cannot be right, because it's asking you turn qt3support on for assistant |
| 17:05.53 | ZogG | alterego, would i have a problem if i had KDE? |
| 17:05.59 | BCMM | ZogG: remove reference to Qt in package.use |
| 17:06.06 | alterego | KDE probably requires qt3support |
| 17:06.13 | BCMM | i believe it does |
| 17:06.30 | ZogG | BCMM i did it |
| 17:06.44 | BCMM | ZogG: have you uninstalled the current mess yet? |
| 17:06.51 | ZogG | but it asks for x11-libs/qt-gui,core,script,declaration private-headers |
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| 17:07.53 | BCMM | ZogG: what's "private-headers"? |
| 17:08.37 | BCMM | ZogG: also, would you mind pastebinning output of eix qt- and contents of make.conf and package.use? |
| 17:10.36 | ZogG | <BCMM> ZogG: what's "private-headers"? // use flag |
| 17:12.44 | alterego | private headers are internal Qt headers that allow closely related classes to reference data between themselves but maintain outside opacity by being dropped in a normal -dev package. |
| 17:12.52 | alterego | They usually end in _p.h |
| 17:13.38 | BCMM | ZogG: that's odd, i don't need that flag, and i have qt-creator |
| 17:13.48 | BCMM | ZogG: but you could just turn it on like it asks |
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| 17:14.17 | ZogG | BCMM i do turn on like it asks |
| 17:14.24 | BCMM | globally? |
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| 17:14.42 | ZogG | BCMM but if it asksk to turn on qt3support for qt-something1 |
| 17:14.56 | ZogG | and than it asks to turn off it |
| 17:15.08 | ZogG | and than off at other qt-somethin2 and on on something1 |
| 17:15.12 | ZogG | what is the point? |
| 17:15.16 | ZogG | in life... |
| 17:15.17 | BCMM | ZogG: and this is with no qt packages installed and no reference to qt in packages.use? |
| 17:15.40 | ZogG | with references exactly as it askes me |
| 17:15.51 | ZogG | and i have qt-core and gui and opengl i think |
| 17:15.53 | ZogG | that's it |
| 17:16.05 | epp | do i have to uninstall normal kernel after i install power kernel? |
| 17:16.11 | BCMM | ZogG: would you mind pastebinning "eix qt-" output? |
| 17:16.16 | BCMM | (if you use eix) |
| 17:16.23 | ZogG | sure i do |
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| 17:16.53 | ZogG | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/320090/ |
| 17:16.54 | BCMM | epp: doesn't power kernel come with great big warnings to not uninstall it in the normal way through HAM or apt-get? |
| 17:16.57 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade_ (~xfade@178-116-35-60.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:17.29 | epp | BCMM i didnt see |
| 17:17.37 | epp | BCMM, i installed it through apt |
| 17:17.38 | ZogG | BCMM he was talking about normal kernel |
| 17:17.43 | BCMM | ZogG: do you want debug support in qt or not, btw? |
| 17:17.58 | ZogG | i don't care |
| 17:18.03 | *** join/#maemo paroneayea (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 17:18.11 | BCMM | ZogG: how is hte debug flag set for the rest of the system? |
| 17:18.11 | ZogG | at least it emerges =) |
| 17:19.12 | ZogG | dev-libs/libusb debug doc |
| 17:19.13 | ZogG | dev-util/gtk-doc debug doc |
| 17:19.17 | ZogG | that's all |
| 17:20.41 | BCMM | ZogG: ok, so can you pastebin the output of emerge -pv qt-creator? |
| 17:20.48 | ZogG | BCMM but seriously Qt is much more complicated with flags and dependies |
| 17:21.08 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 17:21.56 | BCMM | ZogG: it's not a problem with Qt. it's because gentoo has split Qt up into modular ebuilds |
| 17:22.24 | BCMM | this is actually a good thing for people that might have one or two Qt apps and not need opengl support in qt |
| 17:23.18 | ZogG | BCMM, found the problem =) |
| 17:23.22 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.29.177) |
| 17:23.24 | BCMM | ZogG: ? |
| 17:23.33 | ZogG | BCMM you would laught at me |
| 17:24.04 | BCMM | what was wrong? |
| 17:24.23 | ZogG | i had -qt3support in make.conf =) |
| 17:25.06 | ZogG | BCMM so even when i turned it on, i just made to flags =) |
| 17:25.07 | BCMM | ZogG: thats why i wanted you to pastebin that... |
| 17:25.22 | ZogG | i don't like qt anyway |
| 17:25.28 | BCMM | were you worreid i'd laugh at your cflags? |
| 17:25.36 | ZogG | and i turned it off probably year ago |
| 17:25.45 | ZogG | just don't use anything qt so i didn't need it |
| 17:26.14 | ZogG | $ cat /etc/make.conf |wgetpaste |
| 17:26.15 | ZogG | Your paste can be seen here: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/320101/ |
| 17:26.23 | ZogG | nothing to laught about i think |
| 17:26.44 | *** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@87.213.105.245) |
| 17:28.03 | BCMM | "i don't like qt anyway" 1) Why? 2) There is no reason for the above incident to effect your opinions of Qt. |
| 17:29.15 | ZogG | BCMM i hated it before that's all |
| 17:29.29 | ZogG | i'm using xfce4 for a long time now |
| 17:29.40 | BCMM | why, other than a tribal dedication to GTK+? |
| 17:29.41 | ZogG | and as i was new to linux i liked amarok |
| 17:29.52 | ZogG | so i used it |
| 17:30.27 | ZogG | but everytime with global updates in qt something was broken |
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| 17:38.18 | plan_rich | hey can somebody help me resetting my n900? i downloaded the COMBINED global image and flashed it successfully, but there is also the EMMC image containing updates! the weired thing is though that the nokia download page said ALWAYS flash EMMC first and then FIASCO! what does that mean? |
| 17:38.44 | trumee | crap, i am playing a local mp3 stream from my mediaserver (Liquidsoap) and Mediaplayer suddenly drops the audio and rebuffers |
| 17:38.47 | plan_rich | is the FIASCO img the COMBINED? |
| 17:39.13 | trumee | hope that MohammadAGs player doesnt do that |
| 17:40.15 | ShadowJK | yes, fiasco is combined |
| 17:40.56 | plan_rich | and if i install the latest maemo 5 combined global release! do i have to flash emmc also? or what is emmc for? |
| 17:43.04 | ShadowJK | I'm not sure any significant changes have been made to emmc |
| 17:43.18 | ShadowJK | flashing emmc is more of a "clear the device" thing |
| 17:43.49 | plan_rich | ok, ill stick to combined then :) thx for help |
| 17:44.16 | ShadowJK | The warning is there because if you only flash emmc, you end up with unusable system |
| 17:44.36 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-181-48-118.red.bezeqint.net) |
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| 17:48.28 | ShadowJK | so, fiasco,reboot,emmc = broken system. emmc,reboot,fiasco = first broken then working system hopefully. emmc,fiasco and fiasco,emmc without booting the device in between is also fine. and flashing just the fiasco is also fine provided the filesystems already existing on device emmc are otherwise healthy |
| 17:51.29 | javispedro | it requires quite a lot of practice to be able to get the full flashing "timings" right |
| 17:51.56 | Corsac | MohammadAG: hmhm, on your new shiny mediaplayer, is there a random album playback mode? |
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| 17:55.46 | ZogG | BCMM, so did you laugh at my make.conf? =) |
| 17:55.58 | BCMM | ZogG: nah, not really |
| 17:56.30 | BCMM | the USE flag abuse made me slightly disappointed that you didn't have hilarious cflags :) |
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| 17:59.49 | ZogG | BCMM like? |
| 18:00.36 | ZogG | -march=native i think is pretty enuf, but i might be wrong |
| 18:01.21 | mikki-kun | BCMM: is -march=hilarious a hilarious useflag? :) |
| 18:01.38 | BCMM | ZogG: marg=native is a good idea |
| 18:01.46 | BCMM | ZogG: i said you didn't have any funny cflags |
| 18:02.02 | BCMM | -funroll-loops would count as funny |
| 18:02.15 | BCMM | s/marg/march/ |
| 18:03.01 | BCMM | setting both -mtune and -mcpu is surprisingly popular, but meaningless |
| 18:03.13 | javispedro | -Omgfast |
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| 18:12.26 | mikki-kun | BCMM: -march=native == bad when distcc :) |
| 18:15.09 | ieatlint | -O99999 |
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| 18:16.27 | ieatlint | btw, that's not USE flag abuse.. your USE flag var should be insanely long like that in most circumstances |
| 18:17.23 | mikki-kun | hm, how can i allow my user to read /dev/fuse? |
| 18:18.26 | mikki-kun | i have installed sshfs but when i want to mount a volume it says "fuse: failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied |
| 18:18.50 | mikki-kun | an ls -las of /dev/fuse gives me "0 crw-rw---- 1 root root 10, 229 Jan 13 16:38 /dev/fuse" |
| 18:19.43 | mikki-kun | i guess "chown root:user" won't be a permanent fix, will it? |
| 18:19.49 | javispedro | nope |
| 18:19.59 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 18:19.59 | javispedro | but it will be until you reboot |
| 18:20.34 | mikki-kun | hm, how can i make there a permanent fix (besides putting user to the root group?) |
| 18:20.42 | javispedro | a udev rules file |
| 18:20.59 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-181-48-118.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 18:21.02 | mikki-kun | some security on the n900 is totally wrong (like user seeing /root) but stuff like ping is blocked?! |
| 18:21.39 | javispedro | ping requires root on any system. the issue on the n900 is that the ping binary is not setuid because doing that means busybox would be setuid. |
| 18:21.44 | mikki-kun | javispedro: can you maybe help me out with that rule a bit? :) so far i've not used udev extensively :) |
| 18:21.48 | mikki-kun | javispedro: not on mine |
| 18:21.57 | mikki-kun | arch it wasn't and neither it is in gentoo |
| 18:21.58 | javispedro | on your system the ping binary is setuid |
| 18:22.19 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~edulima@187.106.0.240) |
| 18:23.39 | mikki-kun | hm... so again busybox hellishly annoying and useful as a potatoe? wow, i really am impressed... |
| 18:23.45 | javispedro | mikki-kun: create a text file named fuse.rules with something like |
| 18:23.45 | *** join/#maemo mschlens (~mschlens@e180032142.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:23.48 | javispedro | KERNEL=="fuse",MODE="0666" |
| 18:24.12 | javispedro | and save it under /etc/udev/rules.d |
| 18:24.25 | mikki-kun | hm, 0666 ? |
| 18:24.29 | mikki-kun | not 666? |
| 18:25.01 | javispedro | don't remember if it matters or not, but since I don't want to look it up, 0666. |
| 18:25.53 | javispedro | http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html also uses leading zero |
| 18:26.07 | mikki-kun | hm, just curious where leading 0 comes into play :) |
| 18:26.16 | ieatlint | it's convention, if not required, to specify the full 4 digit permissions |
| 18:26.17 | javispedro | on C a leading 0 means octal literal ahead |
| 18:26.33 | ieatlint | also indicates no special bit :P |
| 18:27.16 | mikki-kun | ieatlint: what does this special bit do? indicate it being a sym-link? |
| 18:27.19 | ZogG | http://i.imgur.com/DQIbA.png - Angry Birds under wine =) |
| 18:27.43 | ieatlint | heh, here's an annoying question i was once asked during an interview.. what size (int bits) are unix permissions? |
| 18:28.30 | ieatlint | mikki-kun: it supports setuid and the sticky bit |
| 18:28.36 | ieatlint | think there's a third... hrm |
| 18:28.48 | javispedro | setgid |
| 18:28.58 | ieatlint | yes, right |
| 18:29.12 | mikki-kun | hm, isn't that then 10 bits? |
| 18:29.18 | *** join/#maemo plan_rich (~plan_rich@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 18:29.25 | BCMM | mikki-kun: the ping thing isn't an intentional restriction because of ping being insecure or something |
| 18:29.29 | mikki-kun | uhhh, 9 i mean |
| 18:30.00 | ieatlint | it's 16 bits |
| 18:30.07 | BCMM | mikki-kun: ping requires root access. on a typical linux box, it's installed SUID, but that's not an option for BB because of it all being in one binary, and them not wanting to make sh SUID :) |
| 18:30.32 | ieatlint | four bits for each: special mode, root mode, group mode, user mode |
| 18:30.45 | mikki-kun | BCMM: totally kills then "-f Flood ping. [...] Only the super-user may use this option with zero interval." |
| 18:30.49 | ieatlint | err, was it 3... man i suck at this .. :P |
| 18:30.57 | ieatlint | might be 12, i got the question wrong :P |
| 18:31.09 | perolsen | ieatlint: r/w/x for each u/g/o? |
| 18:31.10 | BCMM | mikki-kun: an SUID program can detect who ran it, see sudo |
| 18:31.28 | mikki-kun | i am free od sudo on my boxes |
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| 18:31.38 | mikki-kun | if something needs root i "su -c" |
| 18:31.53 | mikki-kun | or have a root somewhere running if i do some more commands |
| 18:31.55 | perolsen | rwx would then fit in 2 bits, no? |
| 18:32.04 | javispedro | 3 =) |
| 18:32.09 | BCMM | mikki-kun: well, su then |
| 18:32.18 | ieatlint | mikki-kun: su is setuid |
| 18:32.21 | BCMM | mikki-kun: (i don't have sudo either) |
| 18:32.29 | ieatlint | yeah, it's 3... because permissions are flags, not added value |
| 18:32.43 | perolsen | javispedro: yes, it can also be unset of course :-) |
| 18:32.43 | mikki-kun | ieatlint: su - change user ID or become superuser |
| 18:33.06 | ieatlint | mikki-kun: see "man setuid" |
| 18:33.08 | javispedro | may I suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setuid |
| 18:33.15 | mikki-kun | ieatlint: man su =p |
| 18:33.33 | ieatlint | yes, setuid() is what programs like su call |
| 18:33.42 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 18:33.47 | ieatlint | it runs the program as root, and only root can call setuid() |
| 18:33.56 | ieatlint | so it allows the program to set any uid on the system |
| 18:34.19 | ieatlint | how things like sudo, su work |
| 18:34.41 | ieatlint | and yeah, ok, unix permissions are 12... i think it was 16 i answered in the interview, hehe |
| 18:35.41 | mikki-kun | why now 12? |
| 18:35.52 | perolsen | is there any information out there about what enables you to "cold flash" (recovering from dead nolo bootloader) the n900? |
| 18:36.02 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 18:36.09 | MohammadAG | ~coldflash |
| 18:36.09 | infobot | from memory, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing |
| 18:36.19 | MohammadAG | see the wiki |
| 18:36.32 | perolsen | yes, but what enables you to cold flash the n900? |
| 18:36.41 | MohammadAG | usb |
| 18:36.51 | BCMM | ieatlint: perms are four octal digits, right? |
| 18:37.32 | perolsen | MohammadAG: which component? Nokia feature or something the usb chips provide? |
| 18:37.33 | ieatlint | mikki-kun: so the regular permissions are rwx (3 bits) for each root, group and user... then 3 more bits for the special mode, which are setuid, setgid and sticky bit |
| 18:37.52 | MohammadAG | perolsen, SoC OMAP3 afaik |
| 18:37.54 | ieatlint | BCMM: yes, but often abbreviated to 3 digits to represent just rwx for root/group/user |
| 18:38.05 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:38.26 | perolsen | MohammadAG: ok, thanks |
| 18:38.53 | ieatlint | and they're treated as flags... so the bits are 000/rwx. thus, any permission you set that is odd has execute permissions |
| 18:39.10 | BCMM | ieatlint: so that makes 3*4=12 bits, right? |
| 18:39.18 | ieatlint | yeah |
| 18:40.33 | *** join/#maemo dvaske_ (~dvaske@nat/nokia/x-xxhxrrochueqbbwi) |
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| 18:48.23 | whatwhat | Hey anyone here use sygic maps? |
| 18:48.37 | whatwhat | I can't get it to find any maps... |
| 18:50.02 | *** join/#maemo scoobert1on (~tom@93.186.150.110) |
| 18:51.29 | trip0 | whatwhat, did you put the maps in the right place |
| 18:51.36 | trip0 | ? |
| 18:51.59 | MohammadAG | and did you actually buy it? |
| 18:52.05 | MohammadAG | the installer should handle it |
| 18:52.18 | MohammadAG | and piracy isn't tolerated here :) |
| 18:52.50 | trip0 | i still need to figure out how to re-register my maps with my newly replaced phone... :| |
| 18:53.05 | mikki-kun | trip0: don't they use serials? |
| 18:53.16 | mikki-kun | ohhh, wait |
| 18:53.31 | mikki-kun | were they on an per imei basis? |
| 18:53.32 | trip0 | i have a license key or whatever, but they map it to a device |
| 18:53.54 | mikki-kun | maybe call them and tell them you broke your device and got a new one? |
| 18:54.02 | MohammadAG | or fake the IMEI |
| 18:54.04 | MohammadAG | :p |
| 18:54.05 | trip0 | yeah, that's probably what i need to do |
| 18:54.18 | trip0 | whuts the IMEI? |
| 18:54.57 | mikki-kun | tells you in the about section found in settings :) |
| 18:55.29 | MohammadAG | serial number, illegal to fake |
| 18:55.34 | trip0 | ahh |
| 18:55.37 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: how do you do that? Ã.ö |
| 18:55.58 | whatwhat | what's the map file extention? |
| 18:56.00 | whatwhat | .map? |
| 18:56.01 | trip0 | nokia service center has the old phone, so it'd be difficult to fake it with the old one :| |
| 18:56.17 | MohammadAG | mikki-kun, easiest way would be to fake the dbus signal, a la fmtx-faker |
| 18:56.22 | trip0 | whatwhat, you basically need to follow the instructions that came with it to install the maps |
| 18:56.35 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 18:59.52 | mikki-kun | i love init 0'ing my n900 (instead of exectung halt; dunno why) |
| 19:01.21 | mikki-kun | wow, the n900 even keeps after a reboot stuff which wasn't opened and shows them in the manager |
| 19:01.30 | mikki-kun | at least for a second |
| 19:01.41 | mikki-kun | like you getting a message |
| 19:02.45 | alterego | contemplates writing a "Windows 7 vs. Windows 95" thread on tmo |
| 19:02.57 | mikki-kun | hm, why, if i sshfs's some other dir root cannot see it or even access it? |
| 19:02.58 | alterego | I think in some ways I actually prefered windows 95 |
| 19:03.27 | MohammadAG | alterego, you are feeling sick aren't you? |
| 19:03.34 | mikki-kun | alterego: being more DOS-like than win7? |
| 19:03.36 | alterego | I just did a load of washing up |
| 19:03.53 | alterego | I now have a, quite painful, headache |
| 19:04.52 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: thanks for the guide to the bootloader :o |
| 19:05.10 | MohammadAG | yw, thank jacekowski |
| 19:05.35 | mikki-kun | now i can go and do whatever i want with it without the fear of it locking me out :) |
| 19:06.03 | mikki-kun | i was kinda anxious in killing the bootloader somehow |
| 19:07.09 | alterego | mikki-kun: that's why we leave it up to people that aren't afraid to brick their devices. |
| 19:07.32 | alterego | Or have the means to flash via a jig |
| 19:07.39 | alterego | would like a jig |
| 19:07.39 | mikki-kun | jig? |
| 19:07.59 | ArGGu^^ | I just noticed that my n900 can't ping other devices on my network |
| 19:08.08 | ArGGu^^ | it will ping the gateway |
| 19:08.22 | ArGGu^^ | but not my desktop or mediacenter :S |
| 19:08.45 | alterego | Basically a peripheral that allows more lower level debugging of a N900 |
| 19:08.46 | ArGGu^^ | anyone know why it can't ping? |
| 19:08.51 | alterego | One of which is a low level flash |
| 19:09.11 | alterego | Where as flasher relies on the first few stages of the bootloader to be operating. |
| 19:09.21 | wmarone | alterego: does the pinout under the battery include JTAG? |
| 19:09.33 | MohammadAG | no, afaik |
| 19:09.36 | alterego | wmarone: not as far as I know |
| 19:09.45 | alterego | It has usb and rs232 |
| 19:09.48 | alterego | Well, ttl |
| 19:09.50 | wmarone | oh, so just special pins to access the OneNAND? |
| 19:09.54 | alterego | Not actually RS232 |
| 19:09.55 | mikki-kun | rs232 is what? |
| 19:09.59 | wmarone | serial |
| 19:10.17 | alterego | kernel debug output gets sent there |
| 19:10.27 | MohammadAG | and nolo console |
| 19:10.33 | alterego | Good for watching for kernel panics and issues during boot. |
| 19:10.33 | mikki-kun | hm... so the battery connection is the real connection to the n900? |
| 19:10.43 | alterego | Define "real" :P |
| 19:11.13 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@24-155-46-198.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 19:11.13 | mikki-kun | if yo want total access over it |
| 19:11.22 | mikki-kun | *you |
| 19:11.41 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (Ian--@77.243.78.98) |
| 19:12.11 | alterego | Well, it's not total access. |
| 19:12.29 | alterego | It just allows you to flash the nand when you don't have a working bootloader. |
| 19:12.38 | alterego | Which is useful when you're messing with that kind of thing. |
| 19:13.07 | MohammadAG | or talk to NOLO |
| 19:13.19 | MohammadAG | when it feels lonely |
| 19:13.33 | alterego | More like replace it when it's being a b*tch ;) |
| 19:13.57 | wmarone | iirc, nolo is signed by the TPM module in the OMAP, no? |
| 19:14.20 | alterego | But we can already do that, it's just if you want to modify it, then have a jig is a good way to counter the fear of bricking and having to send it to someone that does (Nokia Care) |
| 19:14.49 | alterego | wmarone: Not sure, I thought that kind of protection is implemented in Symbian, but probably not in Maemo tb |
| 19:15.18 | wmarone | the bootloader can be signed, but not actually do any signature checks of its own |
| 19:15.41 | MohammadAG | the N8 has a custom bootloader afaik |
| 19:15.43 | wmarone | cause if it was possible I'm sure someone would have attempted to replace nolo with u-boot already |
| 19:16.14 | alterego | No |
| 19:16.17 | alterego | No no no |
| 19:16.33 | alterego | We haven't replaced nolo, because we want to continue to be able to flash our devices. |
| 19:16.39 | *** join/#maemo jd (~jd@rocket.vel.lv) |
| 19:16.39 | *** join/#maemo jd (~jd@unaffiliated/jd) |
| 19:16.47 | alterego | Having nolo boot uboot is a nicer solution and less invasive. |
| 19:16.54 | MohammadAG | replacing NOLO isn't the best of ideas :P |
| 19:17.00 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 19:17.09 | alterego | Actually, you're apparently right |
| 19:17.19 | mikki-kun | hm... what does NOLO gibe us what other bootloaders don't give? |
| 19:17.20 | alterego | nolo is signed, but nolo doesn't check zimage for signing |
| 19:17.36 | alterego | mikki-kun: it allows us to flash our devices even if it can't fully boot. |
| 19:17.54 | MohammadAG | it also shows NOKIA in blue |
| 19:18.05 | alterego | Yes, that too :) |
| 19:18.10 | mikki-kun | wow... i alwayd wanted that NOKIA killed.... |
| 19:18.23 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, killed it |
| 19:18.28 | alterego | You can modify nolo to not display that ;) |
| 19:18.37 | MohammadAG | oh and it vibrates the device at boot up |
| 19:18.45 | MohammadAG | r&d mode killed that, thankfully |
| 19:19.12 | alterego | lights up that nice blue led too .. |
| 19:19.13 | MohammadAG | i've been in R&D mode for 7+ months lol |
| 19:19.19 | Kaadlajk | rd mode displays other crap :P |
| 19:19.24 | MohammadAG | not in R&D mode |
| 19:19.32 | MohammadAG | Kaadlajk, it displays my name and email |
| 19:19.55 | MohammadAG | editing it to do that isn't hard :P |
| 19:20.21 | MohammadAG | (hint: /sbin/preinit) |
| 19:20.29 | MohammadAG | (hint #2, make a backup) |
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| 19:21.15 | MohammadAG | alterego, can two UIs exist in one binary? |
| 19:21.31 | MohammadAG | I want something like mediabar --settings |
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| 19:22.37 | alterego | MohammadAG: of course, just do window1.show() when args contain --settings or window2.show() for the other. |
| 19:23.01 | alterego | Also, probably best not to even create window1 when you're showing window2 and visa versa |
| 19:23.37 | MohammadAG | through main.cpp right? |
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| 19:25.08 | MohammadAG | so if(argv[1] == "--settings") SettingsDialog *dialog; dialog->show(); else Widget *w; |
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| 19:25.32 | johnsq | Hi |
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| 19:28.47 | BCMM | talking of Qt, how do you do that maemo-specific thing where the close button turns into a "previous screen" button? |
| 19:29.07 | MohammadAG | stacked window attribute |
| 19:29.36 | MohammadAG | setWindowFlags(Qt::WA_Maemo5StackedWindow) i think |
| 19:29.50 | MohammadAG | it has to be set on the main and sub windows |
| 19:30.03 | Jartza | and the window/widget must be a child of the window you want the back button to return to |
| 19:30.16 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 19:30.48 | BCMM | MohammadAG: thanks |
| 19:30.59 | Jartza | after setting the flag to both parent and child, just show() the child window |
| 19:31.11 | Jartza | back works "automatically" |
| 19:31.27 | perolsen | What can the Nokia tool FLS-5 do? |
| 19:31.27 | MohammadAG | automagically* |
| 19:31.56 | MohammadAG | isn't that the supposed service thing |
| 19:32.44 | mikki-kun | sorry, was a lil afk... MohammadAG is there somewhere maybe a guide in showing a selfmade logo? :) |
| 19:33.05 | MohammadAG | mikki-kun, you can break it, not change it :P |
| 19:33.16 | perolsen | MohammadAG: yes, it seems like a Nokia service tool. I'm quite curious of which functions it has |
| 19:33.22 | MohammadAG | ask jacekowski when he's on |
| 19:33.36 | MohammadAG | perolsen, probably something like NSU |
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| 19:34.04 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: unix perms are 16, 3 x 4 for ugo * rwxs, plus 4 for dir, pipe, whatnot |
| 19:34.09 | perolsen | some fail safe flashing procedure, that is? |
| 19:35.02 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: though iirc you can have 32 optionally |
| 19:35.11 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: why can't i replacve it? |
| 19:35.15 | DocScrutinizer | and of yourse you can have ACLs |
| 19:35.38 | MohammadAG | NOLO's closed source |
| 19:35.57 | DocScrutinizer | plus NOLO is signed |
| 19:36.12 | mikki-kun | :( *wants grub* |
| 19:36.14 | DocScrutinizer | so even when it were open, you can't modify it |
| 19:36.15 | MohammadAG | you can change the image though |
| 19:36.24 | perolsen | signed? and probably verified then... |
| 19:36.27 | mikki-kun | ahhh :) |
| 19:36.38 | mikki-kun | that's what i intended ;) |
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| 19:37.06 | mikki-kun | i would just kill the nokia there and show my own image |
| 19:37.36 | perolsen | the playstation 3 also had signed loaders, but in this case is the verification done by a module in the omap processor? |
| 19:38.42 | MohammadAG | the playstation 3 is the worst example to use |
| 19:38.50 | perolsen | hehe |
| 19:38.52 | MohammadAG | the root keys are out, you can sign what you want |
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| 19:39.28 | perolsen | that was the point, but I suppose Nokia knows how to use random numbers :-) |
| 19:39.33 | DocScrutinizer | perolsen: rom-bootloader verifies 1st stage xldr(?), xldr(?) does or doesn't verify NOLO 2nd stage BL |
| 19:41.20 | DocScrutinizer | perolsen: rom-bl's key is hidden somewhere inside rom, and possibly is even TI's. Anyway you won't be able to get the pricate key matching this pubkey, even if you could get hold of the pubkey. For details ask jacekowski |
| 19:42.20 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I'm not sure what jacekowski said, whether or not 1st stage verifies 2nd stage BL |
| 19:42.43 | perolsen | I see. So the ROM is programmed in factory by Nokia |
| 19:43.15 | DocScrutinizer | I never traced or disassembled it and there's no docs around to read about things related to booting process early stages |
| 19:43.42 | DocScrutinizer | perolsen: probably by TI in factory, when building the chips |
| 19:44.59 | DocScrutinizer | it's a "tiny" thing that just tries to load 64kB of code from flash or USB (=coldflash), then verify and execute it. AIUI these 64kB are called xldr |
| 19:45.47 | DocScrutinizer | xldr in turn loads real NOLO 2nd stage |
| 19:47.28 | DocScrutinizer | (actually I think those rom-bl usually try to load from *any* serial UART, and if that times out they look for flash based xldr code |
| 19:47.45 | DocScrutinizer | ) |
| 19:49.18 | perolsen | interesting. With my curiosity satisfied I see that the tpm wins |
| 19:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | yeah :-S |
| 19:50.07 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I'm a furious foe of security framework |
| 19:51.16 | perolsen | isn't the initialization of radio modules, gsm and other stuff done in an "encoded" format? So why this lockdown? |
| 19:53.54 | DocScrutinizer | perolsen: the room-bl is TI OMAP standard it seems |
| 19:54.12 | DocScrutinizer | incl the signing function |
| 19:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | it's up to the OEM to decide if they want to continue this "chain of trust" through all the bootloader stages until kernel, like moto milestone did, or simply don't care about any verification for 2nd level bootloader |
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| 19:56.16 | perolsen | ah |
| 19:56.48 | DocScrutinizer | perolsen: and as mentioned above I'm not sure what jacekowski said how Nokia xldr does it, whether it verifies NOLO or not |
| 19:58.06 | DocScrutinizer | (always assuming my picture about rom-bl -> xldr -> NOLO -> kernel is correct) |
| 19:58.45 | perolsen | found something here: http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project |
| 19:59.09 | perolsen | reading time. bbl |
| 20:00.14 | mikki-kun | sooo uhhh, if i have any questions regarding the bootloader jace is the correct person to ask? |
| 20:05.27 | alterego | mikki-kun: depends on the question really. |
| 20:06.38 | mikki-kun | hm, changing the image displayed there and then reflashing the bootloader :) |
| 20:06.50 | DocScrutinizer | kermit connection \o/ |
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| 20:09.58 | DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: the image displayed in early boot process rather certainly is from NOLO. You could unpack a FIASCO img, scrutinze the NOLO binary, and spot what you think might be graphical data. Then you edit some bytes/pixel there (e.g. from 0x00 to 0xff), and coldflash the tweaked NOLO. Then see if device boots at all, or refuses to boot a NOLO that has wrong signature |
| 20:10.38 | mikki-kun | change the pic by viy hexedit?! Ã.ö |
| 20:10.42 | mikki-kun | *via |
| 20:10.58 | mikki-kun | isn't it contained in a file? :( |
| 20:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | sure, there's probably not much choice ;-) |
| 20:11.21 | lardman | hmm, the instructions about flashing Android devices on xda are rather unilluminating |
| 20:11.23 | mikki-kun | i mean in something like a .jpg (i know, the worst format to use, but just as an example) |
| 20:11.24 | DocScrutinizer | nah, the whole NOLO is an image |
| 20:12.08 | lardman | would prefer an explanation of what the steps do and why they are needed, rather than a recipe |
| 20:12.34 | DocScrutinizer | I'd be rather surprised to find something in this NOLO image that resembles the concept of a file |
| 20:12.50 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: which steps? |
| 20:13.05 | mikki-kun | hm... that means i can't e.g. take a .jpg and use the hex-values from there?= |
| 20:13.19 | DocScrutinizer | that depends |
| 20:13.22 | mikki-kun | ok, maybe i could, but i must strip the header properly |
| 20:14.40 | DocScrutinizer | if NOLO has a large byte array const that holds the gfx data in a format similar to .jpg, then you might be able to copy the content of another jpg picture to this adress range |
| 20:14.54 | DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: yep, exactly |
| 20:15.48 | mikki-kun | hm, what is the proper command to extract the fiasco image? :) |
| 20:15.49 | DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: anyway, given the code overhead for decoding jpg pictures, I expect to find something simpler than that in NOLO |
| 20:16.00 | DocScrutinizer | like bmp format for example |
| 20:16.21 | DocScrutinizer | or a mere image of the video framebuffer RAM |
| 20:16.36 | DocScrutinizer | --unpack |
| 20:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 20:16.47 | lardman | docscrutinizer: like how to flash a Galaxy Tab |
| 20:17.06 | lardman | and therefore how to work out how to flash a Galaxy Tab with a Meego kernel + rootfs |
| 20:17.48 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: ummmm |
| 20:18.28 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: thanks for your help there :) |
| 20:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
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| 20:21.05 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: what is the ARG? "--unpack[=ARG]" |
| 20:21.38 | DocScrutinizer | errr, see the README file shipping with flasher. I can't recall atm |
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| 20:22.10 | DocScrutinizer | probably something like NOLO | rootfs | cmt... |
| 20:22.51 | mikki-kun | ahhh, sorry, i missed the -F infront of the fiasco :/ |
| 20:23.11 | mikki-kun | the manual even tells how to extract and do a cold-boot :) |
| 20:24.10 | mikki-kun | ewwww, why didn't it make a dir and put all the stuff there >.< |
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| 20:27.29 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: you maybe recall which one of the files is there the bootloader? http://pastebin.com/eyrvZ75K |
| 20:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | well, either 2nd.* or secondary.* |
| 20:29.35 | mikki-kun | the ones coming dozens... wow >.< |
| 20:30.55 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, AIUI flasher checks your hw-version and selects the matching NOLO |
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| 20:32.04 | mikki-kun | well *searching them for some clues via od* |
| 20:32.25 | mikki-kun | uhhhh so i must do it for my hw-version? |
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| 20:33.01 | mikki-kun | hm, seems my cooking just has to be finished though first |
| 20:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | yep, and btw it's secondary, as 2nd is for coldflashing |
| 20:34.28 | DocScrutinizer | so while the both are probably identical, the one gets just transfered to RAM and executed, when you do a coldflash, while secondary is the image that gets actually flashed to NAND -- AIUI :-) |
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| 20:36.30 | DocScrutinizer | you see why it's called "FIASCO" ? :-P |
| 20:36.39 | Spookje | h |
| 20:37.02 | mikki-kun | i see it now |
| 20:37.16 | mikki-kun | how can i find out the hw-version? |
| 20:38.32 | mikki-kun | so editing just 2nd is not the correct way go and neither is 'secondary'? but both? |
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| 20:47.57 | perolsen | mikki-kun: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/?p=down might have some info in the source doc directory. Possibly outdated (2008) |
| 20:49.21 | mikki-kun | thanks mate :) |
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| 21:14.00 | pupnik | hey ZogG you hear about the latest aipac scandal? |
| 21:14.13 | pupnik | pretty funny shit |
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| 21:16.13 | pupnik | http://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2010/11/14/aipac-bares-all-to-quash-lawsuit/ Obama admin killed the criminal investigation of a spy ring |
| 21:16.32 | pupnik | i can't imagine a greater comedy |
| 21:16.53 | wmarone | indeed, however that is highly offtopic for this channel |
| 21:17.04 | pupnik | offtopic is allowed |
| 21:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: the permanently flashed image is the secondary.*, with your hw revision in the name - AIUI |
| 21:18.20 | *** join/#maemo woodong50_______ (~moodapo@211.244.137.136) |
| 21:18.44 | pupnik | but far worse is politics in general killing the economy - USA, europe, etc |
| 21:18.53 | pupnik | killing *our* jobs |
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| 21:23.55 | woglinde | jo |
| 21:24.23 | woglinde | hm how can I use debhelper 7 with the debian-squeeze devkit |
| 21:24.37 | MasseR | I'm trying to install maemo sdk to ubuntu box. The installation script failed when apt-get updating, and after logging in to the environment and trying it manually, I see that it gets error 302. The addresses in /etc/apt/sources.list are the same as http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_repositories here |
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| 21:28.44 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: may i ask what you refer to as AIUI? :) |
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| 21:29.25 | DocScrutinizer | all my above statements :-) |
| 21:29.37 | DocScrutinizer | ~aiui |
| 21:29.37 | infobot | methinks aiui is As I Understand It |
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| 21:30.24 | DocScrutinizer | I don't like to state things I'm not sure about - at least without tagging them as speculative |
| 21:32.15 | javispedro | writing gtk cell renderers is boring.. |
| 21:33.06 | woglinde | ah |
| 21:33.09 | woglinde | javis |
| 21:33.27 | mikki-kun | ahhh, thanks, i knew only iirc or afaik/r :) |
| 21:33.32 | javispedro | hi woglinde |
| 21:33.45 | woglinde | javis do you know how I import the debhelper7 support from debian-sqeeuze-devkit inside the target? |
| 21:34.22 | javispedro | I do not think you can. wait a bit. |
| 21:34.32 | woglinde | why not? |
| 21:34.44 | woglinde | why the hell its there |
| 21:35.42 | javispedro | since it was all makefiles and/or scripts so scratchbox found no reason to make it a devkit iirc |
| 21:36.04 | woglinde | o.O |
| 21:36.50 | javispedro | s/scratchbox/scratchbox packagers |
| 21:37.13 | woglinde | no SBOX_REDIRECT trick? |
| 21:37.42 | woglinde | but the autobuilder can use it? |
| 21:38.33 | javispedro | ok, found it. |
| 21:38.42 | javispedro | so, debhelper _is_ on the devkit |
| 21:38.50 | woglinde | yes it is |
| 21:38.56 | woglinde | otherwise I wouldnt ask |
| 21:38.56 | javispedro | thus you do not need to do anything to use it |
| 21:39.00 | woglinde | hm |
| 21:39.11 | woglinde | I dont see any dh inside the scratchbox |
| 21:39.37 | javispedro | hum.. have you enabled the devkit? |
| 21:39.46 | woglinde | Compiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 |
| 21:39.46 | woglinde | Devkits: perl cputransp doctools git qemu svn debian-squeeze |
| 21:39.46 | woglinde | CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb |
| 21:40.00 | javispedro | can you check if dh_* stuff is there on /scratchbox/devkits/debian-squeeze/bin/ ? |
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| 21:40.50 | woglinde | hm it is |
| 21:40.51 | woglinde | hm |
| 21:40.58 | woglinde | hm hm |
| 21:41.05 | woglinde | maybee I had to renter it |
| 21:41.07 | woglinde | okay |
| 21:41.17 | woglinde | nice |
| 21:41.31 | javispedro | dunno, there was a problem recently about sbox having incomplete $path |
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| 21:41.38 | woglinde | dh7 and dh-autoreconf makes packaging a lot easier |
| 21:41.58 | javispedro | yeah.. |
| 21:44.03 | javispedro | so, happy to hear it works :) |
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| 21:45.19 | javispedro | goes back to writing random bullshit about gobjects and cell rendenrers.. |
| 21:48.12 | woglinde | hms |
| 21:48.22 | woglinde | now it dont has quilt support |
| 21:48.50 | javispedro | ah, quilt is definitely not builtin |
| 21:49.05 | javispedro | but there's a package around |
| 21:49.07 | woglinde | the debhelper7 package has it in |
| 21:49.37 | woglinde | *sigh* |
| 21:49.43 | javispedro | autobuilder does preseed quilt, so you don't need to specify it in build-depends |
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| 21:50.06 | woglinde | javis the quilt stuff is not called from within debhelper |
| 21:50.11 | woglinde | thats the problem |
| 21:50.23 | javispedro | hum? |
| 21:50.30 | woglinde | dh --with quilt worked with debhelper7 package |
| 21:50.44 | woglinde | but not with the sqeeze one |
| 21:50.45 | woglinde | hm hm |
| 21:52.28 | javispedro | weird, is the devkit debhelper missing something? I do not have a full debian around to test |
| 21:52.49 | woglinde | hm on debian/ubuntu its in the quilt package self |
| 21:52.58 | woglinde | and maemos is too old |
| 21:53.03 | javispedro | oh :( |
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| 21:56.02 | woglinde | hm but /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make is there |
| 21:56.45 | lcuk | javispedro, does *anyone* have full debian around? |
| 21:56.53 | javispedro | hehe, good point. |
| 21:56.56 | lcuk | can a system actually boot if you do apt-get install * |
| 21:57.16 | lcuk | at least within a reasonable time |
| 21:57.38 | woglinde | lcuk what? |
| 21:57.42 | javispedro | well, not every package starts at boot |
| 21:57.43 | mikki-kun | wow, i have an 2101 board :o seems like the first ones produced according to numbers (2101 being smallest when looking at nolo-infos) |
| 21:58.13 | lcuk | javispedro, even non auto start apps take time - menus get slow with too many entries etc |
| 21:58.36 | lcuk | woglinde, can you actually install and have a usable debian system if you install every package |
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| 22:03.30 | ShadowJK | my older n900 is 2101 too iirc :) |
| 22:03.59 | mikki-kun | i bought mine last year jan :) |
| 22:06.28 | jacekowski | alterego: nolo isn't signed |
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| 22:07.16 | ShadowJK | I got mine december 2009 :) |
| 22:07.28 | jacekowski | alterego: and we can replace it easily |
| 22:07.35 | DocScrutinizer | HOLA woglinde |
| 22:07.45 | jacekowski | alterego: as long as we can make replacement thing fit in place where nolo was |
| 22:07.57 | jacekowski | alterego: and u-boot doing less is about 1.2x bigger |
| 22:09.13 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: XD |
| 22:10.12 | mikki-kun | jacekowski: how hard would it be to get grub there? |
| 22:10.12 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: u-boot is just *doing* less, but it *can do* a lot more. U-Boot: the OS in a bootloader |
| 22:10.16 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: very |
| 22:10.24 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: grub is about 10x bigger |
| 22:10.46 | mikki-kun | Ã.ö hm... does grub need all the parts it has? |
| 22:10.55 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:11.03 | jacekowski | and grub has no arm support as far as i know |
| 22:15.15 | GeneralAntilles | DD-WRT: Because it's fun having to guess when boxes you check in the web GUI don't actually do anything! |
| 22:16.05 | mikki-kun | jacekowski: hm, would you maybe know an easy way to change the "NOKIA" image shown at boot and maybe the background? |
| 22:16.19 | jacekowski | well, i know where it's stored in nolo binary |
| 22:16.31 | jacekowski | but it's stored in some strange format i don't understand |
| 22:16.40 | jacekowski | so, i know how to remove it |
| 22:16.47 | jacekowski | but change not really |
| 22:17.38 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.120.145.94) |
| 22:18.03 | mikki-kun | can you maybe point me then to the part of where to change it? |
| 22:18.56 | mikki-kun | i mean to change it from being shown |
| 22:19.16 | jacekowski | depend on exact version of nolo you have |
| 22:19.19 | mikki-kun | sorry oif that sounded like i asked too much :/ |
| 22:19.24 | mikki-kun | 2101 it would be |
| 22:19.36 | jacekowski | that's version of hardware |
| 22:20.12 | jacekowski | and hmm, i would have to take my other laptop out to find exact address |
| 22:21.00 | mikki-kun | ohhh, hm, nolo would be from pr1.3 |
| 22:21.36 | mikki-kun | i could c&p the contents of 2nd.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 |
| 22:21.44 | jacekowski | no need |
| 22:22.36 | perolsen | a debugger would probably make it easier |
| 22:22.57 | mikki-kun | perolsen: you mean a hex-viewer? |
| 22:23.06 | perolsen | but there are no jtag ports beneath the battery, no? |
| 22:23.18 | mikki-kun | ohhh, so a physical one ^^ |
| 22:23.57 | perolsen | yes, to control the cpu execution, read/change data |
| 22:24.05 | mikki-kun | OUCH ---> "Due in part to the free and open source nature of Linux and Maemo, porting applications to Maemo is a straightforward procedure." - wikipedia <-- i think that is why we have people thinking they can request anything and everything is so simple :/ |
| 22:24.59 | jacekowski | perolsen: nope |
| 22:25.02 | jacekowski | perolsen: no need for that |
| 22:25.54 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: thing is that i've disassembled 1.2 version of nolo and 1.3 version is slightly different ( offsets will be different ) |
| 22:26.14 | perolsen | disassembly? what's starting address for nolo in memory? |
| 22:26.41 | mikki-kun | hm, i could do a diff of them both and see how much they really differ |
| 22:26.47 | jacekowski | 80400000 |
| 22:26.57 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: not a lot in terms of function |
| 22:27.06 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: but everything is shifted by couple of bytes |
| 22:27.17 | jacekowski | let me just open it |
| 22:27.27 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 22:27.33 | jacekowski | can you send me 1.3 nolo |
| 22:28.01 | mikki-kun | you mean the 2nd and secondary? |
| 22:28.11 | jacekowski | nope |
| 22:28.15 | jacekowski | just 139k thing |
| 22:28.23 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 22:28.27 | jacekowski | they are both same size |
| 22:28.31 | jacekowski | send both |
| 22:28.34 | jacekowski | i don't remember now |
| 22:28.37 | jacekowski | which one is it |
| 22:28.45 | jacekowski | jacekowski@jacekowski.org |
| 22:29.01 | jacekowski | i'm going to grab something to it |
| 22:29.04 | jacekowski | eat* |
| 22:29.19 | mikki-kun | jacekowski: 22:17:15 | DocScrutinizer > mikki-kun: the permanently flashed image is the secondary.*, with your hw revision in the name - AIUI |
| 22:29.35 | mikki-kun | thanks mate :) enjoy your meal :) |
| 22:30.10 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: thing is that 2nd and secondary are both going in same place |
| 22:30.15 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: but one is used for coldflashing |
| 22:30.25 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: and second one i used for normal operation |
| 22:30.32 | *** join/#maemo incar (~incar@58.104.86.83) |
| 22:30.49 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: and i don't remember if it's secondary or 2nd that's used for normal operation |
| 22:30.58 | mikki-kun | and i'd want a cold-flash i guess :) |
| 22:31.07 | mikki-kun | so i mean both |
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| 22:36.36 | jacekowski | you just need one |
| 22:36.56 | jacekowski | cold flash is only useful if something goes wrong |
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| 22:41.00 | mikki-kun | is it the same procedure in flashing? |
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| 22:49.36 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: ok |
| 22:50.18 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: function loading/displaying picture starts at RAM:804081AC |
| 22:50.30 | jacekowski | that's offset 81ac in file |
| 22:51.58 | mikki-kun | 9F E5 20 <-- at the 9F there? |
| 22:52.31 | jacekowski | nope |
| 22:52.51 | mikki-kun | uhhh, seem to be at the wrong place... first time actually to go hex ^^' |
| 22:53.42 | mikki-kun | maybe i am also in the wrong file ...d'oh |
| 22:55.03 | mikki-kun | yeah, seems i was :) |
| 22:55.33 | mikki-kun | 81AC + next 3 bytes: 2D E9 F0 41 |
| 22:55.42 | mikki-kun | am i correct with those? :) |
| 22:56.40 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:56.55 | mikki-kun | good :) |
| 22:58.50 | mikki-kun | so i have to change there a couple of bytes i guess |
| 22:59.07 | *** part/#maemo Windrose (~tina@84-246-95-27.customers.ownit.se) |
| 22:59.31 | *** part/#maemo blue_led (~Administr@188.26.250.66) |
| 23:00.06 | jacekowski | 804081BE |
| 23:00.08 | jacekowski | ehh |
| 23:00.13 | jacekowski | 81be |
| 23:00.16 | mikki-kun | 81BE ? |
| 23:00.59 | jacekowski | b1 |
| 23:01.01 | mikki-kun | found it :) |
| 23:01.02 | jacekowski | ehh |
| 23:01.09 | jacekowski | there should be 38b1 there |
| 23:01.22 | mikki-kun | that goes backwards |
| 23:01.42 | jacekowski | at address 81be |
| 23:01.43 | mikki-kun | i started with 81AC |
| 23:02.04 | jacekowski | that's function start |
| 23:02.05 | mikki-kun | ahh yeah, there is :) |
| 23:02.08 | jacekowski | not really important |
| 23:02.24 | jacekowski | so if you found that 81be |
| 23:02.42 | jacekowski | change it to c046 |
| 23:02.48 | jacekowski | save |
| 23:02.49 | mikki-kun | i am now at 81BE which ends with 3B |
| 23:02.50 | jacekowski | and flash |
| 23:03.00 | jacekowski | are you sure |
| 23:03.24 | mikki-kun | so the 81BE position reading 3B i should change? |
| 23:03.25 | SpeedEvil | this is patching NOLO? |
| 23:03.45 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: are you sure it's 3B not 38? |
| 23:03.49 | mikki-kun | 31B1 is for 81BE and 82BF |
| 23:04.02 | mikki-kun | uhh |
| 23:04.07 | mikki-kun | sorry, wrong numbers |
| 23:04.14 | mikki-kun | i'll just C&P them to be sure :) |
| 23:04.22 | mikki-kun | 38 B1 |
| 23:04.34 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 23:04.36 | mikki-kun | that is what i have for 81BE and 81BF |
| 23:04.36 | jacekowski | 38 |
| 23:04.50 | jacekowski | change it to c046 |
| 23:05.05 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 23:05.31 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: make a backup of your phone |
| 23:05.34 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: and flash it |
| 23:05.54 | jacekowski | mikki-kun: just nolo |
| 23:05.57 | mikki-kun | can't i just flash that part of the bootloader? |
| 23:06.01 | jacekowski | you can |
| 23:06.08 | jacekowski | but make a backup anyways |
| 23:06.42 | mikki-kun | is there a way i could make a custom pr1.3 file out of those files i have there? |
| 23:06.50 | jacekowski | yes |
| 23:06.54 | jacekowski | but you don't have to |
| 23:07.01 | jacekowski | you can just flash that single file |
| 23:07.12 | mikki-kun | i want to save space on my disk in case i need further flashes :) |
| 23:07.27 | jacekowski | anyways |
| 23:07.29 | jacekowski | test it first |
| 23:07.41 | mikki-kun | ok, *making backup of important files* |
| 23:07.50 | *** join/#maemo darkschneider (~gab@93-32-38-175.ip31.fastwebnet.it) |
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| 23:08.39 | jacekowski | i'm not sure if changing just that one thing will be enough |
| 23:08.58 | jacekowski | because all it's doing is making it think that there is no pic number 0 |
| 23:09.00 | jacekowski | and return error |
| 23:09.30 | mikki-kun | hm, how did you read that from there? :o |
| 23:09.42 | mikki-kun | you speak in hex? ^^ |
| 23:09.59 | *** join/#maemo reenignEesreveR (~sharjeel@119.152.44.236) |
| 23:10.10 | jacekowski | no |
| 23:10.13 | jacekowski | i have disassembler |
| 23:10.30 | mikki-kun | wow |
| 23:11.19 | mikki-kun | i might be ready to do it in 10 minutes i guess :) my backups seem to be rather huge at times :/ |
| 23:11.24 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 23:11.30 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 23:11.36 | jacekowski | 81c0 |
| 23:11.41 | jacekowski | there should be 00 there |
| 23:11.56 | jacekowski | you may change it to 01 |
| 23:11.58 | mikki-kun | should i change that as well? :) |
| 23:12.05 | jacekowski | and that should make everything happy |
| 23:12.19 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:12.19 | jacekowski | and you may want to start reading |
| 23:12.23 | jacekowski | ~coldflashing |
| 23:12.26 | jacekowski | ~coldflash |
| 23:12.27 | infobot | rumour has it, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing |
| 23:12.34 | jacekowski | in case something goes wrong |
| 23:12.44 | mikki-kun | i did now change the 00 to 01 as well :) |
| 23:12.58 | mikki-kun | may i ask which dissassembler you used? |
| 23:12.59 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 23:13.13 | jacekowski | IDA |
| 23:13.57 | jonwil | whats this about disassembly? :P |
| 23:14.14 | jacekowski | ? |
| 23:15.01 | jonwil | what is it that you are disaassembling? |
| 23:15.17 | jacekowski | lot of different stuff |
| 23:15.21 | jonwil | ok |
| 23:15.30 | mikki-kun | NOLO pr1.3 for HW 2101,2102,2103 |
| 23:15.40 | *** join/#maemo darkschneider (~gab@93-32-38-175.ip31.fastwebnet.it) |
| 23:15.59 | Jartza | strange, but the name "nolo" still makes me giggle sometimes. |
| 23:16.08 | Jartza | nolo is "embarassing" in finnish |
| 23:16.40 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I explained the diffs in usage between 2nd and secondary. 2nd is coldflash ramload, secondary is flashing image to NAND |
| 23:17.06 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI :-D |
| 23:17.15 | mikki-kun | Jartza: not "nölö" ? |
| 23:17.19 | jacekowski | well, i don't remember which one is which |
| 23:17.22 | Jartza | mikki-kun: not :) |
| 23:17.25 | *** join/#maemo darkschneider (~gab@93-32-38-175.ip31.fastwebnet.it) |
| 23:17.33 | mikki-kun | ohhhh, ok |
| 23:17.51 | mikki-kun | seems my finnish is really rusty then >.< |
| 23:17.54 | Jartza | nolo: abashed, embarrassing, uncomfortable |
| 23:18.32 | DocScrutinizer | heh, Nokia is truly international. FIASCO is rather italian :-P |
| 23:18.36 | mikki-kun | seriously needs more finnish people around him |
| 23:18.55 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: in german there is the word "Fiasko" indicating something being a total mess |
| 23:18.57 | MohammadAG | gah |
| 23:19.09 | MohammadAG | control panel plugins are a pita |
| 23:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I know |
| 23:19.28 | mikki-kun | still waits for his backup o finish |
| 23:19.31 | mikki-kun | *to |
| 23:19.44 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: rewrite control panel for saner use :) |
| 23:19.48 | mikki-kun | XD |
| 23:19.54 | MohammadAG | headbangs |
| 23:20.03 | MohammadAG | It's starting my app |
| 23:20.07 | MohammadAG | with the args I need |
| 23:20.10 | MohammadAG | but it doesn't show |
| 23:20.18 | mikki-kun | >.> |
| 23:21.41 | mikki-kun | 162 MB backup?! Ã.ö |
| 23:21.48 | mikki-kun | seems i have too many mails on it opened |
| 23:24.06 | mikki-kun | jacekowski: in the man there is also described how to coldflash :) |
| 23:24.29 | RST38h | smoku: Here? |
| 23:34.49 | mikki-kun | jacekowski: sorry if stuff takes so long, i have a couple of stuff to back-up :/ |
| 23:35.05 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:36.27 | smoku | RST38h, sup? |
| 23:36.39 | *** join/#maemo sid_ (~sid@g227112060.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:38.07 | RST38h | smoku: moo.got aquestion |
| 23:38.20 | RST38h | smoku: that Streak you had, how was it unlocked? |
| 23:38.42 | RST38h | All the Streaks sold here appear to be locked to AT&T |
| 23:38.46 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:39.01 | smoku | RST38h, www.dell.co.uk sells unlocked |
| 23:40.24 | wmarone | smoku: I was under the impression that the "no contract" 3G streaks were still locked to AT&T |
| 23:40.39 | wmarone | ah, unk |
| 23:40.42 | wmarone | -n |
| 23:41.12 | smoku | wmarone, EU here ;-) |
| 23:42.44 | wmarone | yeah I noticed that |
| 23:42.59 | wmarone | then I frowned, because Dell persists in being dumb here :( |
| 23:43.06 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 23:43.45 | smoku | wmarone, don't you have streaks at BestBuy (or how was it called)? |
| 23:45.06 | *** join/#maemo SeaSharp (SeaSharp@74.83.200.93) |
| 23:45.38 | wmarone | I haven't seen any, not locally at least |
| 23:46.41 | jonwil | where do I get kernel source for n900, which package do I need? |
| 23:47.25 | mikki-kun | jonwil: you want a self-compiled kernel? |
| 23:47.34 | mikki-kun | maybe try first kernel-power :) |
| 23:47.35 | jonwil | no, I just want to look at the source for now |
| 23:49.34 | mikki-kun | hm, sadly i don't know, but the kernel-version should be a minorly or majorly tweaked version of 2.something (states it when you run uname -a on the default kernel) |
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| 23:53.53 | DocScrutinizer | damn why are people asking questions then leave chan? |
| 23:54.19 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, see /TOPIC |
| 23:54.25 | DocScrutinizer | mxr is the buzzword |
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