| 00:00.25 | SpeedEvil | happy new year everyone. |
| 00:01.04 | ptl | For you too. Although the new year will still take two hours to get there. |
| 00:01.08 | Milhouse | The apt-get upgrade seemed to go well... I've not got myself updated hildon-home, hildon-desktop and hildon-status-menu... I presume these are courtesy of the Community SSU package that I was maligning. :) Rebooting now... I wonder if there's a changelog? |
| 00:01.12 | ptl | We'll get a new year that has already been used |
| 00:01.15 | ptl | second-hand new year |
| 00:01.24 | Milhouse | Happy New Year everyone... |
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| 00:26.21 | New_n900_User | Ok, so they should be sending me a shipping label and I'll send back my phone. |
| 00:26.34 | New_n900_User | And get it repaired under warranty :) |
| 00:29.56 | SpeedEvil | Great! |
| 00:30.56 | New_n900_User | Now does anyone know how to sync gmail contacts? I followed the directions that appear in like 20 different places in the forums (use mail for exchange) and it syncs my google calendar but doesn't bring in any of my contacts. |
| 00:42.15 | New_n900_User | Also in a decently lit room I can barely make out myself from the front camera and the nice 5mp camera takes pictures full of noise even using bless900. Did I miss some config step because I've seen people take beautiful photos with this camera. |
| 00:43.26 | ShadowJK | I'm thinking people probably used night mode, or flash near the target, in less than daylight.. |
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| 00:43.59 | SpeedEvil | New_n900_User: PR1.0 is sucky |
| 00:44.20 | SpeedEvil | New_n900_User: PR1.3 has _lots_ better camera handling, the camera has improved markedly. |
| 00:44.28 | New_n900_User | Unless I'm horribly mistaken I flashed pr1.3 |
| 00:44.34 | SpeedEvil | And then there is fcam - whihc can take much longer exposure pics |
| 00:44.46 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 00:44.55 | New_n900_User | And I've tried fcamera too, still ridiculously high noise. |
| 00:44.58 | SpeedEvil | Check te version number |
| 00:45.41 | New_n900_User | 20.2010.36-2.002 |
| 00:46.55 | lcuk | New_n900_User, try altering the settings and tweaking |
| 00:47.32 | lcuk | usually sticks in macro mode and disables flash |
| 00:47.56 | New_n900_User | Macro mode? Really? Why? |
| 00:47.59 | lcuk | happy new year all btw \o |
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| 00:48.13 | lcuk | New_n900_User, I take a lot of shots that automatic just doesn't get |
| 00:48.21 | lcuk | but macro mode does (short range macro shots) |
| 00:48.34 | lcuk | but because of the way macro focus scan works, it does the normal photos too |
| 00:48.38 | ShadowJK | I dont think automatic even considers or tries to focus as near as macro does |
| 00:48.47 | lcuk | nods |
| 00:48.50 | ShadowJK | and macro atleast fails to focus further out for me |
| 00:48.55 | lcuk | i still wish I could focus a few mm closer |
| 00:49.10 | ShadowJK | oh wait it just focused at 1.5m |
| 00:49.14 | New_n900_User | Now which application do you use? |
| 00:49.22 | ShadowJK | I'm using default camera app |
| 00:49.24 | lcuk | standard built in software |
| 00:49.33 | New_n900_User | (fcamera has the option to point to a focus point) |
| 00:49.47 | lcuk | New_n900_User, the hardware is incapable of focusing on what I want |
| 00:50.08 | lcuk | i want to turn on the recording red light and focus on woodgrain when using n900 as a mouse |
| 00:50.15 | lcuk | i can see wood grain already |
| 00:50.27 | lcuk | so should get some, but any extra focus depth would help the algo |
| 00:50.36 | ShadowJK | you want to use the camera as a sensor for optical mouse? |
| 00:50.43 | lcuk | yeah |
| 00:50.45 | lcuk | :) |
| 00:50.51 | lcuk | its almost feasible |
| 00:50.56 | New_n900_User | Gotcha |
| 00:51.08 | jacekowski | it is more than almost feasible |
| 00:51.08 | New_n900_User | What exposure settings do you use? |
| 00:51.11 | jacekowski | you have all you need |
| 00:51.13 | jacekowski | light |
| 00:51.14 | jacekowski | and sensor |
| 00:51.20 | lcuk | jacekowski, sigh, read my scrollback |
| 00:51.25 | lcuk | theres not enough definition |
| 00:51.31 | lcuk | i already have the light and almost focus |
| 00:51.37 | lcuk | there just isnt enough clarity |
| 00:51.54 | ds3 | what's the min. distance for macro on the n900? |
| 00:51.54 | jacekowski | what about using accelerometer + camera |
| 00:52.01 | jacekowski | ds3: 5cm |
| 00:52.15 | ds3 | build a 5cm spacer? |
| 00:52.22 | SpeedEvil | Add a lens |
| 00:52.24 | lcuk | ds3 |
| 00:52.31 | lcuk | kinda takes away point of the mouse :P |
| 00:52.33 | New_n900_User | Hmm, stuck it on night and it worked great. |
| 00:52.45 | lcuk | jacekowski, accel isnt what is wanted |
| 00:52.51 | lcuk | but still potential |
| 00:53.03 | ShadowJK | New_n900_User, what kind of flight do you have in the room? |
| 00:53.06 | jacekowski | logitech made accelerometer based mouse |
| 00:53.07 | ShadowJK | light* |
| 00:53.32 | sp3000 | ShadowJK: well, night == indoor, more or less |
| 00:53.35 | ds3 | an accelerator based mouse with a BT interface could be interesting |
| 00:53.35 | lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVqdfFdL3Q start of mouse idea |
| 00:53.50 | lcuk | actual stuff for positioning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM |
| 00:54.05 | lcuk | ds3, this is different idea again ;) ^^^ |
| 00:54.11 | sp3000 | somewhat wishes it admitted that and was automatic |
| 00:54.11 | lcuk | anyway, happy new year \o gnite |
| 00:54.27 | jacekowski | question is do you need focus |
| 00:54.34 | jacekowski | if you only have to detect difference |
| 00:54.42 | sp3000 | o/ |
| 00:54.42 | jacekowski | so as long as you see movement |
| 00:54.45 | ds3 | lcuk: yes it is. |
| 00:54.49 | jacekowski | o |
| 00:54.51 | jacekowski | no |
| 00:54.55 | jacekowski | that's not going to work |
| 00:55.05 | lcuk | jacekowski, theres not enough layers to see it clearly |
| 00:55.06 | jacekowski | you have to focus if it's plain single colour material |
| 00:55.19 | lcuk | just need more definition |
| 00:55.23 | lcuk | because of framerate |
| 00:55.35 | New_n900_User | ShadowJK, 2 incandescents |
| 00:55.37 | lcuk | at the moment there is about 9 pixels of light/dark clarify |
| 00:55.39 | lcuk | clarity |
| 00:55.47 | ShadowJK | New_n900_User, know if they're 40W or what? |
| 00:55.51 | New_n900_User | 60w |
| 00:55.53 | lcuk | anyway, byeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 00:56.01 | New_n900_User | Bye, thanks for all the help. |
| 00:56.03 | ShadowJK | hm wow |
| 00:56.19 | ShadowJK | I'm getting 40 lux beneath my CFL, according to N900 ambient light sensor |
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| 00:57.57 | New_n900_User | I'm going to install that really quick. |
| 00:58.24 | ds3 | what path is the ALS exposed at? |
| 00:58.26 | New_n900_User | hmm, darn, it's in dev. |
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| 00:58.35 | ShadowJK | there's an app? I didn't know |
| 00:58.44 | ShadowJK | I just accessed the sysnode like a linux freak :/ |
| 00:58.53 | New_n900_User | How do you do that? |
| 00:58.57 | New_n900_User | Teach me master. |
| 00:58.58 | SpeedEvil | where node? |
| 00:59.04 | SpeedEvil | I happen to have an actual light meter here |
| 00:59.08 | ShadowJK | cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device/lux |
| 00:59.09 | SpeedEvil | comparing would be interesting |
| 00:59.18 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, the N900 one is highly directional, fyi |
| 00:59.27 | ShadowJK | or atleast it seems to be |
| 01:00.02 | ShadowJK | is running it in a loop in x-terminal: while true; do cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device/lux ; sleep 1 ; done |
| 01:00.42 | ds3 | 'watch cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device/lux' =) |
| 01:00.50 | New_n900_User | 54 |
| 01:01.33 | SpeedEvil | That could be worse |
| 01:01.42 | SpeedEvil | +-30% |
| 01:01.46 | SpeedEvil | Which is quite good |
| 01:01.54 | SpeedEvil | Compared to a 'proper' light meter. |
| 01:02.07 | SpeedEvil | Quotes as it came from dealextreme.com |
| 01:02.12 | New_n900_User | lol |
| 01:02.15 | ShadowJK | Hey, that's funny. I thought the two little holes housed the ALS |
| 01:02.42 | New_n900_User | So now my big issues are getting smscon working and gmail contacts import then I back it up and I'm done fooling for a while. |
| 01:02.43 | ShadowJK | But ALS reading goes to 0 when I cover display side camera |
| 01:03.27 | ShadowJK | actually none of this is making sense |
| 01:03.55 | ShadowJK | Oh, I get it. It's above the camera |
| 01:04.00 | ShadowJK | never noticed that before.. |
| 01:04.18 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Have you considered that it's a fundamentally insane universe, and almost none of it makes sense? |
| 01:04.25 | ShadowJK | wow there's an entire hole on my N900 I haven't noticed before |
| 01:04.32 | ShadowJK | and neither did the people who made my screen protector |
| 01:04.43 | New_n900_User | haha |
| 01:05.06 | New_n900_User | So does no one here sync their google contacts? |
| 01:05.20 | ShadowJK | well i dont have google contacts, so no |
| 01:05.43 | New_n900_User | Hmm, thought every moderate geek did. ;-) |
| 01:05.52 | ShadowJK | 218792 Lux <- beat that |
| 01:05.59 | New_n900_User | WHAT THE HECK!? |
| 01:06.02 | ShadowJK | I'm too old |
| 01:06.24 | ShadowJK | I shone my new 1xAA flashlight at the light sensor :-) |
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| 01:08.14 | SpeedEvil | 130000 lux is about noonday sun |
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| 01:12.41 | ShadowJK | oh... |
| 01:12.48 | ShadowJK | I should probably no longer stare into this thing then |
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| 01:15.12 | New_n900_User | Well good night man. Thanks for the help. |
| 01:21.03 | New_n900_User | Just in case anyone happens upon these logs with the same issue as me: creating a new contact on your phone and then syncing will import all of the google contacts. |
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| 01:39.22 | bigbrovar | New_n900_User: yeah but then once u populate the user details with IM contact and stuff its stops syncing again |
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| 02:36.28 | FIQ|n900 | why does the Sym meny stop working sometimes? |
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| 03:25.13 | Termana | good morning |
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| 05:16.40 | pupnik | i think the dosbox thread must be one of the oldest on t.m.o :) 06-04-07... |
| 05:23.05 | MohammadAG | Post your N900 temperature |
| 05:23.09 | MohammadAG | ha |
| 05:23.17 | MohammadAG | isn't the sensor broken? |
| 05:26.55 | pupnik | what does /proc/cpuinfo give you for bogomips MohammadAG ? |
| 05:27.39 | MohammadAG | BogoMIPS: 249.96 |
| 05:28.03 | pupnik | ok so it's 1:1 mhz |
| 05:28.13 | pupnik | that's nice and simple |
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| 08:41.36 | jave | hello |
| 08:41.55 | pupnik | 7292 pupnik 20 0 27596 13m 3448 S 66.0 5.5 1:01.42 snes9x 1786 root 20 0 21752 11m 5520 R 33.0 4.7 15:32.87 Xorg |
| 08:41.59 | pupnik | meh! |
| 08:45.01 | jave | is there some other way to download images than http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php ? |
| 08:45.23 | tank-man | jave, probably not |
| 08:45.28 | tank-man | what is wrong with that one method? |
| 08:46.19 | jave | too slow in thailand |
| 08:46.34 | *** join/#maemo npm_ (~npm@cpe-76-90-29-158.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 08:48.38 | jave | so I was going to download 1st to a swedish server, but that was not possiblle |
| 08:48.57 | *** join/#maemo |R (~bob@dsl-67-212-20-220.acanac.net) |
| 08:50.01 | SwedeMike | why not? |
| 08:51.26 | *** join/#maemo RobbieThe1st (~RobbieThe@174-31-37-119.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 08:52.24 | jave | because of a stupid browser protectgon scheme |
| 08:53.43 | jave | I can work around it, its just tedious |
| 09:00.21 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
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| 09:46.52 | Gh0sty | best wishes to you all |
| 09:47.43 | *** join/#maemo Guest45940 (~andreas@194.48.133.8) |
| 09:47.57 | Gh0sty | and may 2011 bring some opening of the phone screens by nokia that would be fun :p |
| 09:48.41 | RobbieThe1st | I've got my N900 completely apart, and I see three little gold-colored antenna-connectors; two on the lcd-side of the board, and one on the front/back-cover side. Are these for testing? |
| 09:49.52 | RobbieThe1st | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/n900_11.jpeg upper-left, follow the pcb-trace from the two connectors at the corner |
| 09:50.16 | Gh0sty | there are plenty of hw related topics in the wiki ... read em |
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| 09:51.43 | Gh0sty | a lot of pages from joerg contain fine details about chips, how they work together and which does what ... |
| 09:54.05 | RobbieThe1st | Fair enough; I'm not even sure what the antenna-points would be -called-, let alone what to look for |
| 09:57.40 | pupnik | amazing how small these computers are... amazing |
| 10:00.50 | RobbieThe1st | Yup |
| 10:01.09 | RobbieThe1st | And when you realise that the computer itself is smaller than your fingernail... |
| 10:05.50 | pupnik | once we made a ~15 GB music server at the office. now it fits on a microsd |
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| 10:09.54 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (~ph5@e178213049.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:14.55 | RobbieThe1st | ...That's honestly kind of sad. We have open hardware, datasheets on just about everything, the N900's incredibly easy to disassemble... Yet no hardware mods after a year? |
| 10:17.17 | pupnik | like what |
| 10:17.24 | pupnik | adding a... |
| 10:18.05 | RobbieThe1st | I dunno... Improved antennas would be easily possible, digital compass... |
| 10:20.57 | RobbieThe1st | It would be trivial to install an external Cell-antenna port for one of those large range-extender antennas |
| 10:21.13 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:21.43 | RobbieThe1st | I would have -expected- some mods of -any- sort; you see them for other, more locked-down devices commonly enough |
| 10:24.00 | *** join/#maemo Skald (~okko@a88-112-48-117.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:26.46 | pupnik | RobbieThe1st: the hardware hackers seem to go for more hackable hardware |
| 10:26.57 | RobbieThe1st | ..Like? |
| 10:27.43 | pupnik | beagleboard |
| 10:27.57 | pupnik | and that was two years ago |
| 10:29.01 | RobbieThe1st | Oh, that reminds me - I was thinking of getting a BT -> RS232 adaptor(SPP profile). Would it work? Would I need a custom kernel module? |
| 10:33.30 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@gra94-7-82-234-193-58.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:44.45 | RobbieThe1st | Huh, that's interesting: "When the battery cover is removed, the [magnetic] sensor sends an interrupt to OMAP and both memory cards are powered down". I thought it was only the SD card... |
| 10:49.42 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 10:49.57 | lardman | morning |
| 10:50.05 | lardman | and a happy new year of course |
| 10:52.48 | RobbieThe1st | Morning |
| 10:58.12 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@94-224-243-67.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:59.48 | lardman | hi RobbieThe1st, I guess everyone else is busy coding killer apps, or eating bacon, or out for a New Year's stroll |
| 11:00.04 | RobbieThe1st | Probably |
| 11:00.10 | lardman | :) |
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| 11:08.17 | jaska | the term "killer app" always makes me cringe |
| 11:08.43 | jaska | like "cyberspace" |
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| 11:24.40 | lardman | jaska: :) well you know what I mean, and with everyone developing them this morning I guess we'll have to get used to the term too ;) |
| 11:24.54 | lardman | or they may all be eating bacon of course |
| 11:25.34 | pupnik | http://www.sondrak.com/archive/skpics2/ham_on_bed.jpg |
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| 11:25.51 | lardman | hmm |
| 11:25.57 | lardman | perhaps too much there |
| 11:27.47 | pupnik | somehow less appetizing in that amount |
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| 11:28.48 | BluesLee | can someone help out: i compiled some kernel modules, inserting them via insmod gives me "invalid module format" |
| 11:29.27 | RST38h | moo all |
| 11:29.41 | RST38h | lardman: touchscreen reconsidered its behaviour? =) |
| 11:29.42 | BluesLee | the wiki says that there could be a version mismatch between sdks kernel headers and running kernel |
| 11:29.53 | BluesLee | tried |
| 11:29.54 | BluesLee | objcopy --strip-debug \ |
| 11:29.56 | BluesLee | -R .modinfo -R __versions hello.ko |
| 11:30.04 | lardman | RST38h: it started working again yesterday evening, as if nothing had been wrong |
| 11:30.43 | crashanddie | happy new year maemo |
| 11:31.03 | lardman | RST38h: am a bit wary now that it might fail again at any moment |
| 11:31.04 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 11:31.08 | lardman | happy new year crashanddie |
| 11:32.04 | lardman | BluesLee: correct ARCH for your compilation? |
| 11:33.50 | BluesLee | lardman: in .config: CONFIG_ARM=y |
| 11:34.51 | lardman | did the instructions not tell you to set ARCH as an env var too? |
| 11:35.11 | lardman | I guess there are different ways to compile, /me only knows the way he learned years ago |
| 11:35.53 | BluesLee | lardman: i used http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Compiling_External_Kernel_Modules |
| 11:36.48 | BluesLee | lardman: sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL + modifying .config + "make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules" |
| 11:37.16 | lardman | ok |
| 11:37.43 | lardman | correct path to kernel headers? |
| 11:37.48 | BluesLee | lardman: how can i check if there is a kind of mismatch? |
| 11:37.55 | lardman | another thing I just read while googling was gcc version change |
| 11:38.11 | RST38h | Hehehehehe: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67738 |
| 11:38.21 | RST38h | [Join Date: Sep 2010] |
| 11:38.23 | lardman | I really don't know, but if you enable debugging you might see more output in dmesg I suppose |
| 11:39.34 | BluesLee | lardman: dmesg gives me "no symbol version for struct_module" so i guess there is a slight mismatch between the headers used and the kernel running on my n900 |
| 11:40.20 | BluesLee | lardman: i only have little knowledge on that stuff, try and error + google:-) |
| 11:40.33 | BluesLee | lardman: thanx anyways |
| 11:41.20 | lardman | BluesLee: well at least that's a starting point :) |
| 11:44.19 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 11:44.50 | lardman | RST38h: well he might have a fair point, being able to remove apps would be good, and imo integrating the rating and comments stuff in HAM (or whatever replacement) would be useful |
| 11:45.21 | RST38h | lardman: Nobody is integrating anything into HAM. |
| 11:45.54 | RST38h | lardman: And even if someone did, do you really expect useful ratings/comments from these people? |
| 11:47.50 | lardman | well yeah I think in general one would get ratings and comments that reflect the usecases of the general populace |
| 11:48.13 | lardman | but I know noone is integrating things in HAM, no point as it will be gone soonish (I hope) |
| 11:48.19 | RST38h | general population has no usecases for 90% of the current n900 software |
| 11:48.35 | lardman | true, in which case they won't install and rate presumable |
| 11:48.39 | kerio | general population sucks |
| 11:48.42 | lardman | but he's moaning about game emulators |
| 11:48.42 | RST38h | lardman: Oh they will |
| 11:48.58 | RST38h | lardman: "Useless crap, could not get it working, thumb down' |
| 11:49.09 | lardman | kerio: yep, but these things are supposed to appeal to them eventually, can't be a devs only party forever |
| 11:49.37 | lardman | RST38h: in which case we should have a special section for devs only with a secret 3 finger salute to enable it and stop the plebs getting in ;) |
| 11:49.54 | RST38h | lardman: Actually, see my reponse to him. =) |
| 11:50.12 | RST38h | is being very positive today, probably because of the festive mood |
| 11:50.17 | lardman | but I do think that in general integrating reviews/comments/ratings in the application manager, whatever it is, would be useful |
| 11:50.25 | RST38h | yes |
| 11:50.36 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 11:50.37 | RST38h | In fact, there is a handmade app manager or two in extras-devel that do that |
| 11:50.50 | RST38h | none of them worked for me well enough to keep them though |
| 11:52.19 | lardman | ah, so some of the apps are in extras-devel anyway, which brings us full circle to ask why lots of apps don't make it (or bother in my case so far) to Extras |
| 11:53.11 | RST38h | Heh, the lemming actually took my suggestion seriously :) |
| 11:53.47 | RST38h | will revisit this thread in a few days and ask the originator about the progress of his repository creation |
| 11:54.10 | RST38h | lardman: We both know why they are not making it. |
| 11:54.25 | lardman | well that's exactly what we wanted to avoid, it would be better for him to disable extras-devel and encourage people to fix apps and push them to extras proper |
| 11:54.47 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 11:54.48 | RST38h | lardman: Except he will never do that. |
| 11:55.00 | lardman | the problem now is that so many people have extras-devel enabled, that there's not much point in jumping through hoops to push to extras |
| 11:55.24 | lardman | RST38h: of course, but I don't really want the bad old days of multiple repos to spring up again |
| 11:55.25 | RST38h | lardman: He wants people to give him free quality stuff. He is not interested in paying anything back, even if it is just a few words |
| 11:55.44 | lardman | yep |
| 11:55.45 | RST38h | lardman: and his name is , of course, legion |
| 11:58.06 | lardman | wanders off to get some caffeine |
| 12:06.22 | lardman | anyone know the difference between a QCompass and a QMagnetometer? |
| 12:06.24 | *** join/#maemo OEXPL (~OEXPL@p5DD28C4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:08.29 | pupnik | javispedro really put a lot of work into drnoksnes |
| 12:08.44 | pupnik | well, compared to what i do |
| 12:09.08 | RobbieThe1st | Quick question guys - does the n900 support the SPP bluetooth profile? |
| 12:09.52 | *** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@h21n2-k-flo-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 12:09.55 | *** join/#maemo asj_ (~asj@124-171-216-195.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:10.31 | RST38h | not out of the box |
| 12:11.30 | RobbieThe1st | What's needed? I'm looking to, say, transmit and receive ascii data over bluetooth->serial... |
| 12:13.14 | RST38h | probably requires a userspace program for it |
| 12:13.26 | pH5 | lardman: I think the only difference is the way the results are presented |
| 12:13.33 | RST38h | but I may be wrong, ask VDVsx |
| 12:13.49 | pH5 | magnetometer returns magnetic flux in x y and z directions of a three axis magnetometer, the compass returns angles |
| 12:14.01 | RobbieThe1st | But the backend would work without trouble? |
| 12:14.15 | RobbieThe1st | assuming I can find a proper program(minicom?) |
| 12:15.09 | RobbieThe1st | Aand, I answered my own question. |
| 12:22.15 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:23.02 | lardman | pH5: cool, thanks |
| 12:30.27 | *** join/#maemo Pradeep (~Pradeep@41.220.69.6) |
| 12:31.11 | Pradeep | hi everyone happy yr |
| 12:32.39 | redeeman | can the flash utility back EVERYTHING completely up, so that i can try reflash, and afterwards return EVERYTHING to my backup? |
| 12:32.43 | redeeman | as in both root and emmc and all shit |
| 12:38.06 | RobbieThe1st | No; you'll have to wait for it to redownload all packages |
| 12:38.19 | RobbieThe1st | And, of course, it doesn't back up any user files. |
| 12:38.59 | RobbieThe1st | You can try with BackupMenu (In extras-devel); it'll backup rootfs and optfs images, though you'll still have to manually copy all your files from MyDocs and your SD card. |
| 12:39.18 | RobbieThe1st | Now, I'm off. Bye all. |
| 12:41.19 | alterego | stumbles in |
| 12:43.54 | Termana | hey alterego |
| 12:46.17 | alterego | Hey :) |
| 12:46.25 | alterego | Happy 2011 |
| 12:48.25 | Termana | alterego, happy new year to you to :) |
| 12:48.33 | lardman | passes alterego some painkillers |
| 12:50.32 | alterego | Thanks ;) |
| 12:50.42 | alterego | I'm alright tbh, which is suprising |
| 12:51.49 | alterego | Just hungry |
| 12:53.39 | *** join/#maemo range (ralph@centos/homeonthe/range) |
| 12:54.04 | alterego | has a bath |
| 12:54.18 | alterego | and catch up on tmo |
| 12:54.51 | alterego | "Elop said N9 is a 2011 event, it's 2011, where is it?!?!" |
| 12:54.53 | alterego | Classic |
| 12:56.25 | Termana | alterego, yeah that's just the same stuff rehashed |
| 12:57.11 | Termana | alterego, personally I'm taking interest in the fight between Mr. power-kernel and Mr. open-source-forced-donation-injection-driver-man |
| 12:58.01 | jacekowski | ? |
| 12:58.06 | jacekowski | what is a problem? |
| 12:58.17 | RST38h | I think that was some lemming's attempt at humor |
| 12:58.35 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:58.36 | RST38h | Yes, it [unsurprisingly] backfired. |
| 12:59.34 | Termana | jacekowski, Mr. power-kernel doesn't like that Mr. open-source-forced-donation-injection-driver-man is forcing donations to get binary and source now that he is releasing it outside of the scope of Neopwn |
| 13:00.18 | jacekowski | who is mr power-kernel? |
| 13:00.26 | RST38h | Sorry but how can he FORCE donations? |
| 13:00.40 | jacekowski | donate or i will kill teh kitten |
| 13:00.53 | alterego | He should release it into mainline kernel if it's that good. |
| 13:00.58 | Termana | Which I think is actually illegal. He performed work for an employer, just because he didn't get paid doesn't mean he has the IP rights |
| 13:01.05 | lardman | apparently that's what he'd trying to do |
| 13:01.13 | Termana | jacekowski, Titan or whatever |
| 13:01.32 | alterego | Oh, well, I'll just wait then. |
| 13:01.33 | RST38h | Ok, kill the kitten, make a video,upload to youtube |
| 13:01.42 | jacekowski | ~seen ttan |
| 13:01.45 | apt | i haven't seen 'ttan', jacekowski |
| 13:01.46 | jacekowski | ~seen t-tan |
| 13:01.46 | apt | t-tan <~tanner@e179094244.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 203d 17h 20m 47s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'. |
| 13:02.14 | lardman | alterego: you still here? |
| 13:02.25 | Termana | RST38h, there is no problem with someone else giving it away for free. But the guy who wrote the code is only giving it out if you donate |
| 13:02.37 | jacekowski | heh |
| 13:02.42 | jacekowski | https://sites.google.com/site/alexystems/vulnerabilidades-web/n900-injection-packets |
| 13:02.48 | RST38h | 1) What is the license on this code? |
| 13:03.03 | jacekowski | GPL |
| 13:03.06 | alterego | lardman: I never leave! |
| 13:03.10 | jacekowski | and it's perfectly legal to do so |
| 13:03.15 | jacekowski | on gpl |
| 13:03.16 | Termana | jacekowski, ah looks like its already out in the open then :p |
| 13:03.26 | jacekowski | well, some people are just dickheads |
| 13:03.33 | jacekowski | and that's why GPL sucks |
| 13:03.37 | Termana | 141mb? WTF? |
| 13:03.46 | jacekowski | sources |
| 13:03.47 | RST38h | 2) Has he made sources available? |
| 13:03.58 | jacekowski | RST38h: to people that donated |
| 13:04.01 | alterego | If it's GPL can people that have donated distribute sources? |
| 13:04.08 | jacekowski | they can |
| 13:04.09 | RST38h | Yes. |
| 13:04.12 | alterego | Heh |
| 13:04.12 | jacekowski | but it's being dickheads |
| 13:04.12 | Termana | alterego, of course |
| 13:04.15 | lardman | alterego: just wondering about that compass slider, is it 100pix wide? |
| 13:04.20 | RST38h | So, let one of them distribute the sources, case closed. |
| 13:04.24 | kerio | the GPL sucks |
| 13:04.26 | *** join/#maemo patrakov (~aep@188.16.44.67) |
| 13:04.33 | alterego | lardman: more like 280px |
| 13:04.33 | lardman | RST38h: quite |
| 13:04.46 | alterego | wait 380 |
| 13:04.56 | alterego | It's half the width of the screen. |
| 13:05.01 | RST38h | Besides, I somehow suspect this "cool" wl1251 driver is just something he compiled from the sources already avalilable in other projects |
| 13:05.08 | lardman | alterego: ok, will have to sit down and draw it to work out what all the number in there are doing! ;) |
| 13:05.12 | RST38h | Did he do ANY original work at all? |
| 13:05.13 | Termana | jacekowski, 141mb for sources, the whole kernel tree isn't even that big compressed |
| 13:05.15 | lardman | bbiam, have to pop to the shop |
| 13:05.27 | patrakov | hi. I want to reset my Nokia N900 to default settings, except that I want PR1.2 (not 1.3) and want to keep my documents intact. Is it possible? |
| 13:06.41 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:06.48 | jacekowski | that's a big part of it |
| 13:06.52 | jacekowski | kerio: yes it does |
| 13:07.25 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 13:09.04 | jacekowski | RST38h: all of patches are his own |
| 13:10.11 | *** join/#maemo Pradeep (~Pradeep@41.220.69.7) |
| 13:11.12 | alterego | bbiab |
| 13:11.27 | Termana | I still contend that, while he WROTE them, he doesn't not own the copyright for the patches |
| 13:11.34 | Termana | doesn't own* |
| 13:11.41 | jacekowski | he does |
| 13:12.05 | Termana | He has explicitly stated it is the work he did for Neopwn |
| 13:12.16 | jacekowski | but he never got paid as far as i know |
| 13:12.23 | Termana | Work done for an employer is automatically the employer's work |
| 13:12.28 | jacekowski | no |
| 13:12.29 | Termana | jacekowski, it doesn't matter |
| 13:12.33 | jacekowski | they may own financial rights |
| 13:12.42 | jacekowski | but copyrights remain with person that wrote it |
| 13:12.52 | Termana | that's not the case at all |
| 13:13.01 | jacekowski | it is |
| 13:13.14 | jacekowski | neopwn person can't legally write that he made that driver |
| 13:13.21 | jacekowski | even though he paid for it |
| 13:13.34 | jacekowski | ( except he didn't ) |
| 13:13.56 | jacekowski | but he can sell it and do everything else with it |
| 13:14.10 | jacekowski | assuming that we ignore GPL problem for now |
| 13:14.20 | Termana | It doesn't matter whether he paid for it or not, the work was written under an employment agreement between him and Neopwn |
| 13:14.28 | Termana | Therefore Neopwn holds the rights |
| 13:14.36 | jacekowski | no |
| 13:14.42 | jacekowski | copyright law isn't that simple |
| 13:14.43 | Termana | The remedy for the situation is for the guy to sue Neopwn for a breach of contract |
| 13:14.54 | SpeedEvil | Typically no pay, no transferral of rights. |
| 13:15.40 | jacekowski | Copyright is a set of exclusive rights granted by the law of a jurisdiction to the author or creator of an original work4 |
| 13:16.09 | jacekowski | and then little bit further down is that you can only sell your financial rights |
| 13:16.13 | jacekowski | distribution rights |
| 13:16.24 | jacekowski | which is part of it |
| 13:16.38 | jacekowski | but whoever buys it is still not allowed that it's his work |
| 13:17.16 | Termana | jacekowski, your completely wrong, IMO, at least by Australian law. |
| 13:17.36 | jacekowski | well i don't care about australia |
| 13:17.36 | Termana | Even submission of work to a University is work done for a University and they then have the rights to it |
| 13:17.46 | derf | You're also wrong by US law. |
| 13:17.52 | jacekowski | yes they have right to do whatever they want |
| 13:17.59 | jacekowski | except to say that THEY made it |
| 13:18.36 | jacekowski | otherwise you wouldn't even be able to say in cv that you made that sort of thing |
| 13:18.43 | derf | Europe has some crazy "Moral Rights" crap. |
| 13:18.47 | jacekowski | without breaching copyright |
| 13:18.55 | derf | Which is I think what jacekowski is trying to talk about. |
| 13:19.11 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 13:19.50 | pupnik | copyright is transferrable in all western jurisdictions that i've read about |
| 13:20.31 | derf | Moral rights are not actually the same thing as copyright. |
| 13:20.40 | derf | But the "right of attribution" is one of them. |
| 13:20.51 | jacekowski | it's part of bernce convention |
| 13:20.54 | jacekowski | and US signed it |
| 13:21.18 | jacekowski | Visual Artists Rights Act |
| 13:21.19 | jacekowski | The Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990 (VARA) recognizes moral rights, but only as they apply to works of visual art. The VARA is part of Title 17, the U.S. Copyright Code. |
| 13:21.26 | jacekowski | VARA gives qualifying authors the following rights: |
| 13:21.27 | jacekowski | right to claim authorship |
| 13:21.27 | jacekowski | right to prevent the use of one's name on any work the author did not create |
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| 13:21.51 | Termana | Fine, you retain that right to say you made it. But it doesn't give you redistribution rights |
| 13:21.53 | derf | In the US, moral rights can be waived, and any copyright transfer agreement you ever see will do so. |
| 13:21.54 | pupnik | jacekowski: < jacekowski> but copyrights remain with person that wrote it <<< this is where you slipped up |
| 13:22.03 | derf | So effectively we have no such thing. |
| 13:22.09 | jacekowski | well, names |
| 13:22.18 | jacekowski | i'm not so familiar with that area of law |
| 13:22.38 | jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_(copyright_law)#Worldwide_situation |
| 13:22.51 | jacekowski | and according to this table |
| 13:22.58 | jacekowski | australia has something like that as well |
| 13:24.16 | pupnik | i think copyright is immoral, but that's a much wider topic :) |
| 13:24.29 | Termana | When you perform work for someone, you transfer rights of usage, copying, modification, redistribution etc. |
| 13:24.45 | Termana | Just because you can say you made it, that means nothing - especially for the situation |
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| 13:25.04 | jacekowski | thing is what if it's work on GPLed code |
| 13:25.15 | Termana | It doesn't matter |
| 13:25.39 | jacekowski | well, if code is on GPL, then code is free for everyone |
| 13:25.44 | Termana | You are not distributing to a third party |
| 13:25.52 | pupnik | i want to run a handful of android apps within an execution environment under linux :/ |
| 13:26.01 | jacekowski | let me ask on debian-legal |
| 13:26.03 | Termana | The GPL even outlines this for cases of eg. businesses |
| 13:26.27 | Termana | If you put GPL software on all your business computers, you do not need to give employees the code |
| 13:26.56 | Termana | It is not redistribution as defined by the GPL |
| 13:33.16 | lardman | but surely they can ask for the code? |
| 13:33.51 | lardman | or do they not have that right because they are employees |
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| 13:33.52 | lardman | ? |
| 13:34.24 | Termana | lardman, they can ask, but they don't have to be given it |
| 13:34.40 | lardman | fair enough |
| 13:35.14 | Termana | Internal distribution is not covered by the GPL's distribution clauses |
| 13:38.51 | *** join/#maemo sge (~username@andesiitti.telemail.fi) |
| 13:38.58 | Termana | jacekowski, lardman - GPL FAQ says it itself - http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic |
| 13:39.00 | Termana | "You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization." |
| 13:39.10 | lardman | ok |
| 13:39.52 | alterego | Weird, I didn't think the GPL allowed that. |
| 13:40.20 | SpeedEvil | Even if customers use the machines. |
| 13:40.29 | alterego | So, it's only when you're making something that you sell with GPLd software that you have to supply sources if people request right? |
| 13:40.53 | lardman | SpeedEvil: question or statement? |
| 13:41.07 | lardman | ah I see |
| 13:41.31 | Termana | alterego, sell? No. If you distribute it to someone that is not a part of your organisation ("the public"), you have to provide sources |
| 13:41.37 | Termana | apart* |
| 13:41.43 | alterego | Ah, m'kay. |
| 13:41.53 | alterego | Well, that's sort of what I meant. |
| 13:42.19 | SpeedEvil | statement |
| 13:42.20 | alterego | I was talking in terms of some fictional product, like say, the N9 :) |
| 13:42.33 | Termana | Anyway, I'll bbs - going to go take a shower. |
| 13:42.45 | alterego | You should, you smell like a yeti |
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| 13:44.04 | SpeedEvil | wonders if distribution includes leaving it on the train. |
| 13:44.22 | alterego | Heh |
| 13:46.29 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.83.109) |
| 13:46.34 | alterego | sighs |
| 13:46.57 | alterego | Now to work out why the HOME environment variable is screwing with liblocation in my app. |
| 13:46.59 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~quassel@YGMCLI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:50.31 | jave | I'm trying to reflash a bricked n900 |
| 13:51.22 | SpeedEvil | ~flashing |
| 13:51.22 | apt | somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 13:52.19 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@nat67.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 13:52.35 | jave | I'm not sure about the battery charge |
| 13:53.31 | jave | can I try anyway? |
| 13:54.10 | Wizzup | Just wondering... Has anyone ever tried to use pulseaudio on n900 as client and laptop as server, and then broadcast the sound from laptop (via pulse) over FM? |
| 13:54.18 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-61.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 13:55.28 | pupnik | nice project idea for a gui applet Wizzup |
| 13:55.53 | Wizzup | I'll have to get it work first anyway... :p |
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| 13:58.56 | Termana | back |
| 13:59.21 | Termana | SpeedEvil, I assume it's the same situation of someone stealing it from you - no. |
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| 14:01.45 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 14:04.27 | alterego | Hilarious, |
| 14:04.33 | alterego | Now run-standalone.sh is causing problems. |
| 14:08.10 | *** join/#maemo Lori (~lori@cl-115.lis-01.pt.sixxs.net) |
| 14:09.31 | alterego | This is pathetic :/ |
| 14:09.45 | alterego | And I'm not clever enough to debug it :'( |
| 14:09.56 | Lori | hi! anyone using Pidgin on the N900? it happens quite often that it keeps running in the background without any way to switch to it... :| |
| 14:10.13 | jacekowski | Termana: yeah, that's correct |
| 14:10.18 | alterego | Lori: status bar applet? |
| 14:10.23 | jacekowski | Termana: but is employer allowed to take source code with him |
| 14:11.18 | *** join/#maemo funto (~funto@ANice-151-1-20-151.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:11.40 | jacekowski | Wizzup: there are ready made fm transmitters that you just stick into your network card |
| 14:11.45 | jacekowski | Wizzup: sound card* |
| 14:12.01 | funto | hi all, I am having trouble installing some packages on my N900 |
| 14:12.11 | Lori | alterego: you have to install it separately? there is nothing in the status bar by default |
| 14:12.14 | funto | I would like to install GCC, the man pages and some stuff |
| 14:12.32 | jacekowski | funto: not enough space on the phone for that |
| 14:12.33 | alterego | Lori: oh, dunno t hen |
| 14:12.36 | alterego | ~then .. |
| 14:12.48 | alterego | I don't use Pidgin on the N900, try asking on tmo |
| 14:12.55 | funto | but I get "Package XXX is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source" |
| 14:13.09 | Lori | alterego: ok, thanks |
| 14:13.10 | funto | I googled but did not find anything interesting... |
| 14:13.36 | funto | jacekowski: really? the phone has quite a lot of space... |
| 14:13.46 | alterego | funto: not in the / filesystem. |
| 14:14.00 | alterego | funto: which is where gcc, manpages, headers etc will get installed. |
| 14:14.11 | Termana | jacekowski, in terms of if the employee is severed or what not? Yes, the employer retains the rights transferred and takes them with him, they don't get transferred back. |
| 14:14.24 | jacekowski | Termana: that's gpl code |
| 14:14.37 | funto | ok...:/ |
| 14:14.52 | jacekowski | hmmm |
| 14:15.22 | jacekowski | so what is gpl status on patches |
| 14:15.28 | jacekowski | as in i supply patches for gpl code |
| 14:15.29 | alterego | funto: you might be able to download the packages and install them into /opt though |
| 14:15.43 | jacekowski | not including gpl code itself |
| 14:15.46 | alterego | funto: but you'd have to manually decompress them there and fix gcc's search paths. |
| 14:15.52 | jacekowski | are patches gpled in that case |
| 14:16.26 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: see the derivitave work clauses |
| 14:16.32 | funto | alterego: using dpkg -i ? So we could decide where to install the packages with some options for dpkg? |
| 14:16.35 | Termana | jacekowski, no, even if they were included in the whole source it wouldn't matter. |
| 14:17.06 | alterego | funto: no, using dpkg -x package.deb /opt/mygcc |
| 14:17.07 | alterego | or something |
| 14:17.14 | Termana | It is still internal distribution and the rights for the code written is still held by the employer |
| 14:17.57 | jacekowski | Termana: i'm talking about something else |
| 14:18.06 | funto | alterego: ok thanks |
| 14:18.17 | jacekowski | Termana: like i'm independent developer and i want to make some cash on developing drivers for device |
| 14:18.20 | jacekowski | s* |
| 14:19.03 | Termana | jacekowski, are you asking if the patch is automatically GPL'ed? If that's the case no. |
| 14:19.28 | alterego | Yay, fixed it. |
| 14:19.32 | alterego | (Hopefully) |
| 14:19.32 | jacekowski | hmm, so technicaly person that posted that package violated his copyright |
| 14:20.28 | lardman | when you tap on the screen, does one get a QEvent button value of Qt::LeftButton ? |
| 14:20.30 | Termana | jacekowski, if the guy still withheld the rights, he has placed the patches under GPL anyway, so no |
| 14:21.15 | jacekowski | are you sure patches i gpled |
| 14:21.34 | jacekowski | i don't see anywhere that it is gples |
| 14:21.37 | jacekowski | gpled* |
| 14:21.50 | Termana | However, I believe 1) the guy has infringed on the rights held by Neopwn and 2) Any further distribution by anyone else is a violation of rights held by Neopwn as well |
| 14:22.03 | Termana | jacekowski, I can only go on what he said in the thread |
| 14:22.36 | Termana | I haven't examined the patches or the folder containing the patches etc. |
| 14:22.37 | Wizzup | jacekowski: Probably, but I want to do it with pulseaudio |
| 14:22.37 | jacekowski | well, i believe he never got paid for a job |
| 14:22.46 | Termana | jacekowski, it doesn't matter |
| 14:22.46 | jacekowski | and therefore it's breach of contract |
| 14:22.51 | Termana | right |
| 14:22.59 | Termana | But that doesn't make the contract void |
| 14:23.05 | jacekowski | and his copyrights were never transfered in first place |
| 14:24.01 | jave | I cant bring my n900 into usb mode |
| 14:24.09 | Termana | Any donation he accepts he can be sued for by Neopwn for damages. |
| 14:24.39 | Termana | He is able to sue Neopwn for breach of contract for not paying him |
| 14:24.51 | jacekowski | depends on contract terms |
| 14:25.13 | jacekowski | if contract clearly stated that he pays at specific date or something |
| 14:25.38 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 14:25.42 | Termana | I assume it was mostly probably a verbal agreement, "Write this for me and I'll pay you $X" |
| 14:26.59 | alterego | contemplates how to store his waypoints |
| 14:27.04 | alterego | I think a database. |
| 14:27.34 | BCMM | verbal agreements are always a terrible idea if money is involved |
| 14:29.42 | Termana | BCMM, agreed. Verbal agreements are in fact bad for anything you care about. If you care about it, if it is important - get it in clear writing with all the nooks and crannies decided, so that something doesn't come back to bite you |
| 14:30.48 | BCMM | never mind nooks and crannies; whether there ever was an agreement will become an issue |
| 14:31.10 | BCMM | somebody who doesn't want a written agreement is either trying to rip you off, or is stupid, in which case they may well forget about the agreement |
| 14:31.14 | jacekowski | Termana: and thing is that neopwn released binary drivers |
| 14:31.32 | jacekowski | Termana: gpled binary drivers with no source |
| 14:32.48 | Termana | jacekowski, yes, and he can be sued by kernel developers of which the work has been specifically derived from |
| 14:32.56 | Termana | (Neopwn) |
| 14:33.08 | Termana | (Newpwn can be sued by kernel developers) |
| 14:33.28 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08BDE8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 14:35.11 | *** join/#maemo toniher (~chatzilla@29.134.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:37.36 | SpeedEvil | Also by the guy that did the coding |
| 14:37.49 | *** join/#maemo OviQ2G (~quassel@188-195-64-163-dynip.superkabel.de) |
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| 14:39.25 | Termana | SpeedEvil, we already mentioned breach of contract. The guy who did the coding can't sue for copyright violation |
| 14:39.56 | SpeedEvil | no, he can sue for breach of contract. |
| 14:40.42 | Termana | You mean like I just said he could? :p |
| 14:41.15 | SpeedEvil | Also, as I understand it, the copyright has to be explicitly assigned in terms of contracts, it's unlikely it passed in this case, especially with lack of payment |
| 14:44.21 | Termana | SpeedEvil, I don't believe that interpretation to be correct. For instance, going back to the University situation, performing work at the request of the University and submitting it automatically confers the right (besides the point that most Universities here actually waive this and you do keep the copyright) |
| 14:44.42 | Termana | It is not explicitly written anywhere |
| 14:45.14 | Termana | It's not something you agree to, it is just what happens |
| 14:45.14 | SpeedEvil | There is wording to that effect in the agreement you sign that binds you to agree to the rules of the university. |
| 14:45.25 | SpeedEvil | Or rather - it's part of the rules of the university. |
| 14:45.28 | Wizzup | Well I don't think pulseaudio will be any good. The version on n900 is too old and incompatible with upstream versions |
| 14:45.28 | SpeedEvil | At least here. |
| 14:45.34 | Wizzup | Perhaps gstreamer can help... |
| 14:49.00 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 15:04.26 | lardman | is it possible to remove Garage projects? |
| 15:04.56 | Wizzup | Is the mediaplayer open source? </noob question> |
| 15:05.23 | alterego | Wizzup: no |
| 15:05.36 | alterego | But there are people working on a complete FOSS implementation. |
| 15:05.39 | GAN900 | Well, Happy New Year, kids. |
| 15:05.42 | alterego | Which is coming on extremely well. |
| 15:05.46 | alterego | Happy new year GAN900 :) |
| 15:05.57 | alterego | GAN900: is this the year you move to Android? |
| 15:06.04 | *** join/#maemo th3hate (~Chrome@109.66.186.8) |
| 15:06.43 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.145.162) |
| 15:06.58 | GAN900 | alterego, good god no. |
| 15:07.06 | alterego | :) |
| 15:07.16 | alterego | I forget, do you actually have an iPhone? |
| 15:07.27 | alterego | My sister in law is getting one next week -_- |
| 15:07.30 | GAN900 | There are several spares in the house, yes. |
| 15:07.36 | Wizzup | alterego: I see. I was looking on how they used the radio transmitter. :-) |
| 15:07.48 | GAN900 | Tried one for a couple days when my September proto died. |
| 15:07.54 | alterego | Wizzup: should be quite well documented have a search around the wiki. |
| 15:07.55 | GAN900 | Wanted to put my eyes out. |
| 15:07.59 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:08.07 | GAN900 | Really don't see the appeal. |
| 15:08.15 | pupnik | GAN900: ++ |
| 15:08.16 | Wizzup | alterego: I can find the hardware article, not so much on programmer API's. |
| 15:08.24 | alterego | It's nice, if all you want is smooth flawless transitions between fart apps. |
| 15:08.28 | Wizzup | Apart from a d-bus description |
| 15:08.33 | GAN900 | I mean, it's pretty and all that |
| 15:08.38 | GAN900 | usability is generally high |
| 15:08.48 | GAN900 | it's not completely bug-ridden |
| 15:08.54 | GAN900 | But it just isn't useful. |
| 15:08.59 | alterego | Sure, well, I dunno, I think the iP4 looks uncomfortable to hold. |
| 15:09.04 | alterego | Like a pane of thick glass. |
| 15:09.17 | GAN900 | The whole one-thing-at-a-time way of working is incredibly limiting. |
| 15:09.24 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 15:09.30 | pupnik | how about the app manager warnings about which privacy components apps compromise? |
| 15:09.32 | Wizzup | will learn more video for linux |
| 15:09.42 | alterego | Yeah, that'd piss me off. |
| 15:09.52 | GAN900 | Even the homebrew is monetized. |
| 15:10.18 | pupnik | Wizzup: if you want to stream video to the n900 check out "knots2" |
| 15:10.46 | SpeedEvil | one-thing-at-a-time may be useful for people who can't think of more than that though. |
| 15:11.03 | Wizzup | pupnik, I want to stream my own sounds over the FM transmitter. Preferrably sounds from other machines (but pulseaudio is incompatible) so I'll try http or gstreamer |
| 15:11.17 | GAN900 | SpeedEvil, indeed. |
| 15:11.47 | GAN900 | Most people seem to like it because it's better than everything that can before it |
| 15:11.55 | GAN900 | and it doesn't require them to think. |
| 15:13.21 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 15:14.15 | alterego | Well, I like Symbian, where multitasking is there but most users don't even realise that they've left all their apps open. |
| 15:14.21 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~irc_milho@188-222-193-237.zone13.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:14.21 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~irc_milho@Maemo/community/contributor/Milhouse) |
| 15:14.38 | alterego | Unlike Maemo/MeeGo, where your tasks are unmissable. |
| 15:14.48 | jacekowski | wel, maemo way is annoying |
| 15:14.51 | jacekowski | well* |
| 15:15.59 | alterego | What do you find so annoying about it? |
| 15:16.08 | pupnik | what's that trick where you give someone ssh access to your box and can watch what they type on the console / terminal? |
| 15:16.24 | alterego | I quite like it, though I wish that the "dashboard" would only appear when you click on a special dashboard icon. |
| 15:16.43 | alterego | So you have direct access to the app menu without having to transition through the dashboard. |
| 15:16.47 | alterego | But that's just me. |
| 15:17.42 | ShadowJK | I like the dashboard so much I find firefox and opera tabs annoying :-) |
| 15:20.00 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:20.19 | alterego | Do you seriously use Opera and Fennec that much? |
| 15:20.22 | *** join/#maemo Pradeep (~Pradeep@41.206.12.5.vgccl.net) |
| 15:20.52 | ShadowJK | firefox latest beta is pretty usable :-) |
| 15:20.59 | ShadowJK | and opera was always usable |
| 15:21.09 | ShadowJK | but the interface is kinda annoying there |
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| 15:33.21 | alterego | Yeah, I don't like the fennec ux at all. |
| 15:35.02 | ShadowJK | it zooms in on what I want with doubletap more often than microb |
| 15:35.38 | ShadowJK | but sometimes nothing happens, and I double tap again, and then after 20 secs it suddenly zooms in out in out in out in |
| 15:35.41 | alterego | Does it actually have the zoom into element feature now then? |
| 15:35.56 | alterego | I'd love Opera if it had that. |
| 15:36.08 | alterego | It's the only reason really that I use microb exclusively. |
| 15:36.19 | alterego | Because the zoom to element is fsking awesome :) |
| 15:36.29 | ShadowJK | usually opera actually figures out which link im long tapping, much better than microb and fennec |
| 15:36.55 | alterego | Not had that problem tbh |
| 15:37.57 | ShadowJK | it's hard to make microb recognize longtap on the postcount in tmo minimalist light |
| 15:38.03 | ShadowJK | when postcount is singledigit |
| 15:38.29 | ShadowJK | and hard to make it zoom in on it with doubletap |
| 15:53.43 | alterego | I always feel dirty when I use SQL in an application. |
| 15:53.54 | alterego | Well, a C/C++ application |
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| 16:00.19 | *** part/#maemo patrakov (~aep@188.16.44.67) |
| 16:01.28 | lardman | say I have an app which uses plugins, and these plugins want to update their data at arbitrary intervals, I could allow each plugin to create a QTimer, but I was thinking centralising the timer stuff would more easily allow me to suspend timers if the app is backgrounded |
| 16:01.38 | lardman | any thoughts as to whether this is or isn't a good idea? |
| 16:02.04 | alterego | I'd have a timer in each plugin like you said. |
| 16:02.04 | lardman | the centralising would also make it easier to write plugins, as they wouldn't need to listen for an extra "we're going to the bg" signal |
| 16:02.12 | *** join/#maemo LjL (LjL@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 16:02.15 | alterego | But have a suspend/resume method in each function |
| 16:02.23 | alterego | s/function/plugin/ |
| 16:02.31 | lardman | yep, makes sense |
| 16:03.44 | LjL | hi. do you think this supposed N900 is real or fake? http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280609539747 i know there isn't very much to look at, but perhaps the OS screen |
| 16:03.49 | alterego | You can even, that way, have a base "AbstractApplicationPlugin" class that implements the timer suspend/resume slots and leave syou to just setup the timer in your plugins constructor. |
| 16:04.24 | lardman | the only issue is that not all plugins will have timer-related updates |
| 16:04.57 | lardman | but I guess I can always check for the presence of the timer object |
| 16:05.05 | SpeedEvil | LjL: the box looks right, from what I recall, the n900 looks legit on a first look |
| 16:06.02 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 16:07.25 | alterego | lardman: Well, the proper way to do it would be to declare that your plugin implements timer interface, then you can interact with it in that manner with a cast. |
| 16:07.34 | alterego | Otherwise ignore it if it doesn't implement that interface. |
| 16:08.09 | lardman | I'd like to make the plugin writing as simple as possible |
| 16:08.55 | alterego | Well, it is, I could knock up the code in a few minutes :P |
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| 16:13.42 | LjL | SpeedEvil: a generic however as in who really knows, i guess? |
| 16:15.03 | lardman | alterego: I'll remember that, and give you a shout once the code is in Garage |
| 16:15.20 | alterego | Sure |
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| 16:16.48 | SpeedEvil | LjL: I was about to comment 'however I'd never buy from someone with one positive feedback in the last 12 months, it's an almost guarantee that the account has been stolen. |
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| 16:17.27 | SpeedEvil | LjL: But I then realised that the reason for the 1 feedback in the last 12 months is that the people buying in the last 12 months are repeat customers of similar items - and hence that's unlikel |
| 16:17.28 | SpeedEvil | y |
| 16:17.49 | SpeedEvil | repeat customers don't count in the feedback totals |
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| 16:20.29 | alterego | Slow day today |
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| 16:20.37 | alterego | Suprised there aren't more people online |
| 16:20.43 | alterego | For new years hacking ^.^ |
| 16:21.16 | lardman | same here |
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| 16:25.48 | GAN900 | They'll probably all still dead |
| 16:26.00 | GAN900 | I know I am, despite not leaving the house last night. |
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| 16:28.09 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:28.12 | alterego | I'm alright, |
| 16:28.20 | alterego | Bit hungover but not too bad considering :) |
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| 16:32.17 | alterego | I really just want to get Columbus v1 out of the way so I can start working on another app and let it rest for a bit. |
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| 16:37.20 | alterego | Think I've hooked in QSql successfully now though ^.^ |
| 16:37.28 | alterego | So my waypoint storage seems good. |
| 16:38.56 | alterego | QSqlTableModel ftw |
| 16:39.04 | alterego | And my custom delegate of course. |
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| 16:47.34 | alterego | Hrm, almost. |
| 16:47.56 | lcuk | alterego, HNY |
| 16:48.03 | lcuk | qsql within qml? |
| 16:48.09 | alterego | No |
| 16:48.17 | TheJ | hello, anyone else having wrong year showing in conky? |
| 16:48.21 | alterego | But there is support for SQL in QML |
| 16:48.25 | alterego | Columbus isn't QML :P |
| 16:48.55 | lcuk | i thought you found some nice bits and were mixing and matching? |
| 16:49.05 | lcuk | not that it matters |
| 16:49.09 | lcuk | TheJ, hrm |
| 16:49.19 | lcuk | check your n900 knows the correct date |
| 16:49.50 | alterego | lcuk: I'm planning a large UI redesign for v2 |
| 16:50.09 | alterego | But that's way off, it'll be a mix between Qt,QML and OpenGL |
| 16:50.14 | alterego | It's gonna be awesome ;) |
| 16:50.35 | TheJ | yes. the clock in status menu is showing the correct date.. |
| 16:50.52 | alterego | lcuk: Maybe even something like QML 3D, dunno if you've seen that around? |
| 16:50.57 | alterego | Looks very fun :) |
| 16:52.14 | TheJ | could it be that i have a cusrtomized conky.conf file? |
| 16:53.02 | lcuk | TheJ, could be, if someone set a fixed format in one of the options |
| 16:53.34 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (~guysoft@109.64.46.137) |
| 16:54.41 | TheJ | {time %A %d %B %G} |
| 16:55.04 | lcuk | try restarting conky? |
| 16:55.07 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@2001:470:d2ad:1:4a5b:39ff:fe7d:1624) |
| 16:55.32 | TheJ | tried restarting and rebooting.. |
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| 17:00.46 | TheJ | changed the .conf file to another that doesn't show the date.. why do i need it in conky anyway :) thanks to all, and a happy new year! |
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| 17:16.12 | alterego | tests adding waypoints. |
| 17:19.14 | trumee | interesting, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12094227 |
| 17:19.19 | alterego | Well, that sort of worked .. |
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| 17:31.14 | alterego | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:37.30 | RST38h | moo? |
| 17:37.40 | alterego | Aloha |
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| 17:42.03 | alterego | Now for actual entry validation. |
| 17:42.10 | alterego | And parsing of coordinate formats. |
| 17:43.23 | redeeman | hmm, i was told the flasher utility could also backup the device, but i cant find that in the help, anyone knows whether it can actually do that? |
| 17:43.33 | jacekowski | we know |
| 17:43.35 | jacekowski | it can't |
| 17:43.41 | jacekowski | there is backup utility on a phone |
| 17:43.57 | redeeman | i know, but i wanted to copy _ALL_ files |
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| 17:44.17 | jacekowski | what for |
| 17:45.24 | redeeman | so the backup utility really gets EVERYTHING of interest, the sms's, calender, contact list, placement of widgets on desktop, all the dotfolders in the emmc etc? |
| 17:45.37 | jacekowski | no |
| 17:45.52 | redeeman | then that is what for :) |
| 17:46.01 | jacekowski | but there is no need to flash emmc |
| 17:46.02 | SpeedEvil | It's for confusing users. |
| 17:46.06 | jacekowski | and if you want to flash emmc |
| 17:46.15 | jacekowski | you can copy all crap from there using pc |
| 17:46.16 | SpeedEvil | I personally rsync'd off my whole device before flashing. |
| 17:46.33 | redeeman | yes but wifi is broken on it |
| 17:46.33 | SpeedEvil | I would however recommend you exclude /sys and /proc - as these confuse rsync considerably. :) |
| 17:46.55 | jacekowski | do it over usbnetworking |
| 17:47.22 | redeeman | yeah i guess i could do that |
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| 17:49.02 | redeeman | allthough i doubt reflashing will fix it |
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| 17:54.50 | LjL | SpeedEvil: well i didn't buy it, i wasn't sure about it in the first place aside from the being fake issue, but it did go for just €230 which is really not a lot (i usually see between 250 and 300, more on the 300 side) |
| 17:55.20 | ShadowJK | I did rsync restore followed by backup utility restore |
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| 17:56.22 | RST38h | Evening ShadowJK |
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| 17:57.07 | ShadowJK | evening |
| 17:58.00 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 17:59.25 | ShadowJK | I'm making pancakes |
| 17:59.38 | ShadowJK | how come there's no pancake timer app |
| 17:59.48 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: there are a few kitchen timer apps. |
| 17:59.51 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 18:00.06 | SpeedEvil | I made a _huge_ stack of pancakes a couple of weeks ago to freeze. |
| 18:00.18 | SpeedEvil | I found out after I'd made them that I'd omitted the sugar. |
| 18:00.18 | RST38h | Have you got a wristwatch? |
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| 18:00.20 | SpeedEvil | Argh. |
| 18:00.24 | RST38h | Has it got a freaking timer? =) |
| 18:00.36 | alterego | SpeedEvil: ahaha |
| 18:00.47 | alterego | Just add sugar now? :P |
| 18:00.53 | RST38h | Speed: At least you have not replaced it with salt by mistake (yes, it happened) |
| 18:01.19 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: True. |
| 18:01.23 | ShadowJK | I have both salt and sugar in mine |
| 18:01.27 | ShadowJK | (I hope) |
| 18:01.45 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: I'm smearing them with coreander, garlic, and vegetable oil, sticking them in the oven, and calling them naan bread. |
| 18:01.55 | RST38h | Ahhahaha |
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| 18:04.24 | alterego | You'd think after the N8x0 they'd have sorted screen tear .. |
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| 18:08.54 | ShadowJK | oop too much butter |
| 18:09.11 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:09.12 | ShadowJK | bubbling alien landscape instead of pancake.. |
| 18:11.14 | alterego | Tasty |
| 18:12.03 | SpeedEvil | Add more sugar and call it a funnel cake |
| 18:12.56 | GAN900 | SpeedEvil, just add syrup? |
| 18:13.09 | GAN900 | Though the naan idea is genius. |
| 18:15.09 | SpeedEvil | GAN900: It sort-of-works. |
| 18:15.16 | alterego | Hahah |
| 18:15.17 | SpeedEvil | It's edible anyway. |
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| 18:23.37 | alterego | Cool, now got creating and updating waypoints. |
| 18:23.49 | alterego | Next for averaging, then I can work on actually rendering them in the trackview. |
| 18:24.57 | Gyjf | have anyone managed to get iw on the n900? |
| 18:25.10 | Gyjf | i keep getting "invalid tar magic" |
| 18:26.29 | alterego | I don't believe it, they're doing another Fast & Furious film? |
| 18:26.32 | alterego | Lame .. |
| 18:27.18 | timeless_mbp | seriously? |
| 18:27.24 | alterego | Yes, seriously .. |
| 18:27.29 | alterego | It's called "Fast Five" .. |
| 18:27.36 | alterego | Sounds super ghey :D |
| 18:29.09 | GAN900 | alterego, they still make money. |
| 18:29.33 | GAN900 | Recall what percentage of the population is below average. |
| 18:30.05 | alterego | Hahah |
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| 18:38.18 | kerio | GAN900: is that a trick question? |
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| 18:47.10 | GAN900 | kerio, rhetorical, yes. |
| 18:47.40 | GAN900 | My intention was to illustrate why a movie like that would be produced and distributed. *g* |
| 18:49.23 | ieatlint | oh man... new year... apparently i let a bunch of woman put me in a tight fitting dress last night |
| 18:49.30 | ieatlint | alcohol can be brutal |
| 18:51.16 | alterego | Hahah |
| 18:51.18 | RST38h | OMG, they are actually taking my trolling seriously |
| 18:52.27 | RST38h | Late tmo members are so damn gullible... |
| 18:53.16 | alterego | Heh |
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| 18:58.30 | GAN900 | ieatlint, was it worth it? :P |
| 18:58.53 | lcuk | ieatlint, not always a bad thing |
| 18:59.00 | lcuk | did the dress suit you? |
| 18:59.04 | lcuk | or wasnt it your colour? |
| 18:59.08 | kerio | a.k.a. ieatlint, did you have sex with them afterwards? :P |
| 18:59.25 | ieatlint | tonight didn't pay off... but i have reason to think it will in the near future ;) |
| 19:00.05 | lcuk | yeah and you can happily wipe cross dressing off future new years lists :P |
| 19:00.08 | ieatlint | the colour fit me well enough.. plaid |
| 19:00.32 | ieatlint | not the first time this has happened |
| 19:00.56 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.30.97) |
| 19:00.59 | lcuk | heh |
| 19:01.19 | ieatlint | lives in san francisco, etc |
| 19:01.19 | lcuk | lardman, how was your new year? ieatlint and you need to compare notes :P |
| 19:01.53 | alterego | http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101231-013048.png |
| 19:02.01 | alterego | My waypoints custom list. |
| 19:02.16 | alterego | contemplates adding in lat/lon values as well. |
| 19:02.23 | lcuk | alterego, theres me thinking you were making a racing game ;) |
| 19:02.24 | alterego | Though that's probably not important in that view tbh |
| 19:03.53 | RST38h | alterego: how does your compass work anyway? |
| 19:04.22 | alterego | I like how everyone calls it a compass |
| 19:04.39 | alterego | Just because it has a pretty compass widget, it does a bit more than just show you which way north is :P |
| 19:06.08 | alterego | RST38h: it displays heading, nothing special. |
| 19:06.41 | alterego | I'll probably implement support for a digital compass if/when I get my hands on a device with it. |
| 19:08.19 | alterego | But then, heading is still probably the most useful aspect in this app .. |
| 19:10.05 | *** join/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B288C5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:10.27 | RST38h | alterego: will there be maps? |
| 19:11.13 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@151.82.130.146) |
| 19:11.30 | alterego | Not for v1 |
| 19:12.02 | RST38h | alterego: I, for once, would be interested in http://retromap.ru/ support =) |
| 19:12.17 | RST38h | alterego: Maep author said he is not doing local maps =( |
| 19:13.08 | alterego | Oh, is that a collection of old maps, so you can kind of imagine how things have changed? |
| 19:13.11 | alterego | That would be quite neat. |
| 19:13.23 | alterego | Maybe useful for archeologists ;) |
| 19:13.25 | RST38h | alterego: Yep, from ancient times to 2010 |
| 19:13.35 | RST38h | alterego: It is a killer app for city walkers |
| 19:13.59 | *** join/#maemo timeless_xchat (~timeless@84-231-18-187.elisa-mobile.fi) |
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| 19:14.16 | RST38h | alterego: You bring it up and can immediately check out what has been there 100, 200, 400 years ago + the arhictectural plans for this place as they developed over time |
| 19:14.23 | alterego | Well, I might write a seperate app for something like that in the future ;) |
| 19:14.44 | alterego | I don't think I should include it into Columbus though |
| 19:14.57 | alterego | Even if it does have a retro sounding name ^.^ |
| 19:15.15 | tobis87 | jacekowski: Hi, I have seen in the backlog you posted a link to the injection drivers. It is already down, google has cached the link to hotfile.com, however the file was removed: http://hotfile.com/dl/93417170/a2c9007/wl1251-maemo-0.1.tar.gz.html . |
| 19:17.41 | timeless_xchat | chuckles @iOS new years alarm features |
| 19:17.42 | timeless_xchat | http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/31/psa-iphone-alarms-not-working-come-new-years-day-2011/ |
| 19:18.13 | jacekowski | tobis87: nope |
| 19:18.18 | jacekowski | tobis87: i never pasted it |
| 19:19.23 | tobis87 | jacekowski: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-01-01.log.html#t2011-01-01T15:02:41 |
| 19:19.46 | jacekowski | i pasted link to page |
| 19:19.51 | *** join/#maemo Guest1716 (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 19:20.03 | jacekowski | that's all |
| 19:20.08 | jacekowski | not to a driver |
| 19:20.13 | jacekowski | hmm, he took it down |
| 19:20.42 | RST38h | alterego: the maps are available in pretty much the same way as Google maps |
| 19:21.25 | RST38h | alterego: So, no extra app is required, just add 'em as options among other choices (Google maps, MS Terraserv, Yahoo maps, Yandex maps, etc) |
| 19:22.04 | alterego | Well, I wasn't planning on supporting multiple backends |
| 19:22.17 | alterego | I was just going to use ovi map sources in the new mobility api |
| 19:22.40 | tobis87 | jacekowski: Yes, that is what I ment. It is GPL, someone should mirror it. He should have made it an option to donate and not to have to. |
| 19:22.44 | jacekowski | no |
| 19:22.46 | jacekowski | it's not gpl |
| 19:22.50 | RST38h | alterego: ovi maps stuff is kinda..mm...limited |
| 19:22.59 | jacekowski | tobis87: it's not gpl in first place |
| 19:23.14 | RST38h | alterego: and it does look like supporting web maps is not that difficult |
| 19:23.58 | alterego | Well, I'll think about it, you're right it isn't really much more work. |
| 19:24.10 | alterego | And the whole of v1->v2 development is going to be around mapping. |
| 19:24.34 | alterego | So I guess I should be able to write a plugin interface for map sources, then you can implement the plugin yourself :P |
| 19:25.19 | *** join/#maemo bdogg64 (~bizzle@24.42.244.79) |
| 19:25.20 | RST38h | alterego: Dunno, Mappero simply lets you enter URLs,with some special fields where latlons are inserted |
| 19:25.39 | alterego | Yeah, |
| 19:25.46 | RST38h | alterego: Of course, this does not work for every source. For example, it fails for retromaps |
| 19:26.01 | tobis87 | jacekowski: How is it not gpl? Did he rewrote the driver from scratch? |
| 19:26.03 | alterego | Hrm, well, I'll do some research when I start working on v2 ;) |
| 19:26.12 | alterego | I need to finish up my v1 roadmap first. |
| 19:26.22 | RST38h | retromaps require a quadtree path (i.e. sequence of quadrant IDs like 1123143134 |
| 19:26.37 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B__ (~csb@2.97.230.80) |
| 19:27.46 | alterego | I'm going to be adding a load of GLES2 hardware accelerated mapping facilities for v2 |
| 19:27.52 | alterego | It's gonna be sweet :) |
| 19:28.01 | alterego | With a mix of QML as well. |
| 19:29.23 | jacekowski | tobis87: that package includes kernel |
| 19:29.27 | jacekowski | tobis87: and patches |
| 19:29.34 | jacekowski | tobis87: and other stuff |
| 19:29.43 | jacekowski | tobis87: patches are not GPLed |
| 19:29.52 | jacekowski | tobis87: because they are not touching GPL code yet |
| 19:30.25 | jacekowski | tobis87: there is GPLed kernel with patches already applied and stuff |
| 19:30.45 | jacekowski | tobis87: so alex could have extracted patches easily and do it legally |
| 19:30.56 | jacekowski | tobis87: but he just wanted to be cunt |
| 19:31.09 | RST38h | alterego: Just be light on GLES2, looks like it causes all kinds of stability problems |
| 19:31.26 | RST38h | SHouldn't, of course, but such is the driver quality |
| 19:35.10 | luke-jr | jacekowski: BS |
| 19:35.21 | tobis87 | But does the package not also includes compiled modules, which have the changes made to the code? |
| 19:35.22 | luke-jr | jacekowski: all of Linux is GPL |
| 19:35.28 | jacekowski | yes |
| 19:35.34 | luke-jr | jacekowski: if it's a kernel patch, it's touching GPL code |
| 19:35.39 | jacekowski | no |
| 19:35.41 | luke-jr | yes |
| 19:35.43 | jacekowski | not until it's applied |
| 19:35.49 | luke-jr | wrong |
| 19:36.26 | FauxFaux | Is there anywhere to put shell aliases that are honoured ny busybox; e.g. a .ashrc? It even ignores etc/profile. |
| 19:36.31 | jacekowski | well i consulted person that does it every day |
| 19:36.45 | jacekowski | and he wasn't sure of that |
| 19:36.56 | jacekowski | it may be gpled but may be not |
| 19:37.26 | luke-jr | jacekowski: a patch is merely a method of compressing a modified tree |
| 19:37.42 | jacekowski | yes |
| 19:37.45 | luke-jr | just because you don't see any of the original code when you gzip the kernel, doesn't mean it's no longer GPL |
| 19:37.47 | jacekowski | but what if you write patch by hand |
| 19:37.55 | luke-jr | you can't write a patch by hand |
| 19:37.58 | jacekowski | you can |
| 19:38.04 | luke-jr | no |
| 19:38.11 | luke-jr | you need to base it on the original code |
| 19:38.13 | luke-jr | or it won't work |
| 19:38.35 | luke-jr | even if you didn't have to copy and paste 3 lines of context before/after each change, it's STILL a derivative work |
| 19:39.39 | tobis87 | Is the injection stuff touching mac80211? I understand that it is a recent version of the driver, but maybe the it could be backported. |
| 19:40.35 | jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Linking_and_derived_works |
| 19:40.48 | tobis87 | I mean without updating the kernel, since mac80211 is compiled into the stock kernel. |
| 19:41.10 | jacekowski | luke-jr: real lawyer isn't sure about it |
| 19:41.26 | luke-jr | jacekowski: lots of real lawyers are. |
| 19:41.32 | luke-jr | jacekowski: it's not rocket science |
| 19:41.42 | jacekowski | lot of people wish that it would be one way or another |
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| 19:42.49 | jacekowski | esspecialy that with kernel there are some exceptions to gpl and stuff |
| 19:42.56 | jacekowski | as you are allowed to have binary drivers |
| 19:43.08 | jacekowski | closed binary drivers using kernel headers |
| 19:43.25 | RST38h | "Has the Industrialized World Reached Peak Travel?" (C)Slahdot |
| 19:43.37 | alterego | RST38h: reall? That's lame, I've not had any issues with GLES2 personally. |
| 19:43.37 | luke-jr | jacekowski: wrong |
| 19:43.44 | luke-jr | jacekowski: binary drivers using kernel headers are illegal |
| 19:43.48 | luke-jr | jacekowski: the only exception is for userland |
| 19:43.54 | alterego | Angry Birds and apps seem to work fine aswell .. |
| 19:44.41 | luke-jr | jacekowski: anything that touches the kernel (exception to userland only) MUST be GPL |
| 19:45.08 | jacekowski | luke-jr: so how nvidia drivers are working? |
| 19:45.15 | luke-jr | jacekowski: they are illegal |
| 19:45.24 | jacekowski | no |
| 19:45.25 | alterego | luke-jr: you're wrong. |
| 19:45.27 | luke-jr | jacekowski: they are "working" because everyone who can sue nVidia, is too scared to |
| 19:45.37 | alterego | Bullshit |
| 19:45.53 | alterego | Linux has support for closed modules. |
| 19:45.55 | jacekowski | even microsoft was sued for gpl violation |
| 19:45.59 | luke-jr | alterego: wrong |
| 19:46.05 | jacekowski | and they released a lot of code because of that |
| 19:46.05 | alterego | luke-jr: you're wrong. |
| 19:46.06 | luke-jr | jacekowski: not just anyone can sue for GPL violations |
| 19:46.26 | luke-jr | jacekowski: also, it doesn't hurt the community to sue Microsoft over their virtualization stuff |
| 19:46.41 | luke-jr | if someone sues nVidia, then nVidia probably leaves 50% of the Linux users w/o drivers at all |
| 19:46.52 | jacekowski | http://kerneltrap.org/node/1735 |
| 19:46.56 | luke-jr | then those 50% get mad at the developer who sued, instead of nVidia like they should |
| 19:47.20 | jacekowski | there is exception in kernel licence |
| 19:47.36 | luke-jr | jacekowski: nope |
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| 19:48.32 | alterego | sighs |
| 19:50.52 | luke-jr | jacekowski: go ahead: show me where in the kernel copyright terms the exception is |
| 19:51.02 | RST38h | But aren't the open source idealsmore important to you than a bunch of obscure drivers? |
| 19:51.20 | jacekowski | no |
| 19:51.23 | luke-jr | RST38h: I don't have a position where I can sue. |
| 19:51.38 | jacekowski | thing that is important to me if things are working or not |
| 19:52.20 | luke-jr | jacekowski: then use Windows |
| 19:52.50 | alterego | Windows is broken |
| 19:53.15 | alterego | It is a super pile of scht. |
| 19:53.40 | RST38h | luke: Thou shalt not despair and should start studying law instead! |
| 19:54.02 | RST38h | I am sure you will find *something* to sue NVidia for |
| 19:54.05 | jacekowski | i'm using windows |
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| 19:58.54 | b-man|CA | happy new-year :) |
| 19:59.15 | alterego | contemplates lat/lon entry possibilities. |
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| 20:31.56 | SpeedEvil | alterego: "Go to the desired lat/lon, and click 'here'." |
| 20:32.53 | alterego | Hah |
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| 20:46.16 | pupnik | good morning! |
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| 20:49.20 | alterego | Good afternoon :) |
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| 21:01.38 | timeless_mbp | alterego: seriously... |
| 21:01.48 | timeless_mbp | a map based ui is generally the right chooser for lat/lon |
| 21:01.59 | timeless_mbp | it's rather rare for a person to have lat/lon |
| 21:06.06 | alterego | Hrm |
| 21:06.11 | ShadowJK | I've many times wished various navigation software would allow me to put in lat lon :-( |
| 21:06.31 | ShadowJK | Mostly because their search is stupid and I found the place through some other means |
| 21:09.32 | SpeedEvil | Or you want to tell someone else a location |
| 21:09.38 | SpeedEvil | and they don't have the same map as you |
| 21:09.49 | alterego | Yeah |
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| 21:14.43 | ShadowJK | I have difficulties with navigation programs in trilingual areas :/ |
| 21:15.06 | ShadowJK | The best I've seen have had the place names in two languages, and then displays everything in the language no locals use |
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| 21:18.04 | alterego | I wonder if those motorola phones are in high demand that have had the gsm filters removed from the firmware. |
| 21:18.54 | ShadowJK | filters? |
| 21:19.36 | alterego | Yes, allows the transceiver to pass on all GSM data running through the network it seems. |
| 21:19.39 | alterego | ~sees |
| 21:19.39 | apt | hmm... sees is unwililng to share |
| 21:20.25 | ShadowJK | Oh the CCC reverse engineered and rewritten firmware ones? |
| 21:20.52 | MohammadAG | looks at tmo |
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| 21:23.45 | alterego | ShadowJK: yeah |
| 21:23.49 | alterego | Weird .. |
| 21:23.59 | ShadowJK | hm= |
| 21:24.00 | ShadowJK | hm? |
| 21:24.02 | alterego | So how much code did this wireless guy even write? |
| 21:24.24 | ShadowJK | What wireless guy? |
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| 21:24.36 | alterego | From one of his posts it sounds like he's just using an updated wl1251 driver from wireless-compat or something. |
| 21:24.38 | ShadowJK | The one charging for some wlxxxx.ko module? |
| 21:24.42 | alterego | Yes |
| 21:24.50 | ShadowJK | He probably just packaged it :-) |
| 21:25.51 | MohammadAG | alterego, he wrote the injection patches, and the monitor mode ones |
| 21:25.58 | MohammadAG | so, no, he didn't just package it ;) |
| 21:26.06 | alterego | Heh |
| 21:26.11 | alterego | Still, he's a lamo |
| 21:26.40 | MohammadAG | Matan posted the drivers |
| 21:27.00 | ShadowJK | I'm surprised people would pay for it |
| 21:27.05 | ShadowJK | do they want to hack wireless that bad |
| 21:27.12 | ShadowJK | or are they just clueless |
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| 21:27.37 | alterego | I'd definitely use it, if I had the drivers. |
| 21:27.45 | RST38h | moo javispedro |
| 21:28.01 | javispedro | moo |
| 21:28.03 | alterego | But I do a fair amount of wireless auditing for companies. |
| 21:28.09 | alterego | wireless/network auditing |
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| 21:33.43 | RST38h | javispedro: When is the MWC by the way? |
| 21:34.40 | javispedro | NFI, but http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/ says 14-17 |
| 21:34.56 | javispedro | february |
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| 21:39.05 | RST38h | javispedro: so, february it is.... |
| 21:41.04 | javispedro | surprise of surprises, someone actually answered my inquiries about windows 3.1 mouse driver internals.. |
| 21:41.09 | javispedro | the world is full of geeks |
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| 21:44.44 | Venemo | hi guys |
| 21:44.57 | alterego | Aloha |
| 21:45.30 | MohammadAG | hey Venemo |
| 21:47.02 | RST38h | hm |
| 21:47.28 | Venemo | hey MohammadAG :) |
| 21:47.32 | Venemo | hello alterego |
| 21:47.50 | GAN900 | RST38h, think that'll be the event? |
| 21:48.02 | RST38h | GAN: Well, a minor event at least |
| 21:48.36 | GAN900 | RST38h, yes, but THE event? |
| 21:48.41 | RST38h | Hm, these pleasant people are seriously considering creating criteria (!) for acceptance into extras-testing |
| 21:48.44 | javispedro | too early |
| 21:48.49 | GAN900 | doesn't have any hunches anymore. |
| 21:48.49 | RST38h | GAN: Depends on what you mean by THE |
| 21:49.10 | GAN900 | javispedro, aye, which means I'm just trying to fool myself. :P |
| 21:49.26 | pupnik | how goes the dosbox mouse battle javispedro |
| 21:49.39 | RST38h | GAN: But no, it is unlikely to be THE event, should just bring some determination to the future plans |
| 21:50.00 | javispedro | pupnik: I made a custom "protocol" for a ps2 absolute mouse, and patched the win3.11 mouse driver to use it |
| 21:50.08 | pupnik | nice |
| 21:50.14 | javispedro | it actually works =) |
| 21:50.20 | javispedro | except in protected mode... |
| 21:50.22 | RST38h | cheater. |
| 21:50.47 | pupnik | so you basically just used dx,dy as x,y? |
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| 21:51.16 | pupnik | btw drnoksnes fails to compile if GUI=0 in makefile :) |
| 21:51.21 | javispedro | in the process I learnt that ps2 only has 8bit delta fields, which probably explains why you cannot tap in x=0,y=0 then x=480,y=800 without itself decalibrating |
| 21:51.30 | pupnik | ahhh |
| 21:51.32 | javispedro | (it would overflow and move to x=255,y=255) |
| 21:51.59 | RST38h | actually, ps2 max deltas are smaller than that |
| 21:52.14 | RST38h | and there are overflow bits in the status it reports, as well |
| 21:52.46 | RST38h | vaguely remembers that at some values of the reported deltas Linux starts going nuts |
| 21:53.21 | pupnik | dosbox is having trouble with deltas from synergyc as well |
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| 21:55.03 | chem|st | re |
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| 21:57.08 | pupnik | hi chem|st |
| 21:58.08 | GAN900 | Wee, almost done with work. |
| 22:02.07 | chem|st | ;) welcome to the darksi.. ehrm 2011 |
| 22:03.31 | pupnik | i miss watching the liquid scintillation counter with it's nixie-tube display |
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| 22:27.35 | pupnik | the archos a70 tablet getting great benchmark results http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?p=298040#p298040 |
| 22:28.41 | ShadowJK | is that omap4 or something |
| 22:29.40 | pupnik | newp, omap3640 @ 1ghz |
| 22:31.03 | ShadowJK | oh, wow |
| 22:31.26 | ShadowJK | it's kinda surprising then that droid is so low |
| 22:33.07 | pupnik | if things go well it will be running maego soon |
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| 22:37.57 | Venemo | pupnik: maego? :) |
| 22:41.50 | alterego | Heh |
| 22:42.29 | nox- | heh |
| 22:43.10 | ShadowJK | heh |
| 22:43.18 | pupnik | ;) |
| 22:43.35 | pupnik | copyright my ass. it's even a better name |
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| 22:43.54 | javispedro | agrees with pupnik :) |
| 22:44.42 | ShadowJK | RST38h, oh is that the thread where this guy starts by complaining that all the shit he downloaded from -devel doesn't work? |
| 22:45.52 | javispedro | ah, funny thread |
| 22:48.55 | mtnbkr | anyone seen this yet? http://thenokiablog.com/2010/12/30/nokia-n900-popular-amazon-gift/ |
| 22:49.56 | mtnbkr | interesting, but who gives a ~ $600 phone/mini-tablet as a gift? I need richer friends so I don't have to pay for things like my N900 myself :) |
| 22:50.24 | Venemo | mtnbkr: yeah, I've seen it. quite surprising |
| 22:50.38 | Venemo | also raises the question, how much did Nokia pay for Amazon for this? |
| 22:50.40 | javispedro | pft. |
| 22:51.06 | mtnbkr | Venemo: right? |
| 22:53.24 | alterego | I don't find it that ridiculous |
| 22:53.35 | alterego | Mainly because the type of people buying it. |
| 22:56.33 | SpeedEvil | checks 'other bought items' |
| 22:56.37 | SpeedEvil | Aww - no fun ones. |
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| 23:04.39 | ds3 | has anyone tried using the roadrunner app as a general alert when approaching a way point app ? |
| 23:05.00 | alterego | And I've just added waypoint averaging .. |
| 23:05.17 | alterego | Still need to add rendering to track view though |
| 23:05.51 | ds3 | is roadrunner your app? |
| 23:06.01 | alterego | No, I'm talking about a different app .. |
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| 23:06.10 | ds3 | ah |
| 23:06.23 | alterego | It is pure coincidence you started asking about roadrunner :P |
| 23:06.34 | ds3 | I just want a way to notify me if I am near a waypoint in a list so if you got another app... |
| 23:06.41 | ds3 | I see. |
| 23:06.57 | alterego | Sure, mine will be able to do that. |
| 23:07.20 | ds3 | oh? does it trigger the normal alerts or some other thing? and is it small? |
| 23:07.22 | alterego | Are you saying roadrunner works or doesn't? |
| 23:07.41 | ds3 | neither, I just came across it as I was looking for such an pp |
| 23:07.43 | ds3 | app |
| 23:07.45 | alterego | It's not particularly small, but it is quite lightweight if that's what you mean. |
| 23:07.54 | ds3 | not quite my goal but it seems to be close to what I want |
| 23:08.11 | ds3 | well, I would like to co-exists with Mappero running hence the desire for it to be small |
| 23:08.19 | alterego | Hrm, |
| 23:08.23 | ds3 | ideally, it should just be a widget to enable the alarm |
| 23:09.12 | alterego | Well, it wouldn't be too hard to knock something like that up. |
| 23:09.14 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 23:09.15 | alterego | Why don't you do it? |
| 23:09.22 | ds3 | what I want to do is when i see a place I want to visit, place a marker on a desktop app. save it out as a GPX file that gets pushed. the N900 would be a normal moving map display but it would also alert me if I am near something |
| 23:10.02 | ds3 | cuz I just started looking so I don't re-invent the wheel and also cuz I am not much of an apps person (I do kernel/bootloader stuff mainly) |
| 23:10.28 | ds3 | it is something I got inspired by reading other stuff |
| 23:11.37 | ds3 | if I understand things right, I take the location sample app in python and muck with it to do that |
| 23:11.57 | alterego | Yeah, maybe. |
| 23:12.01 | alterego | lat/lon are sent via dbus |
| 23:12.36 | alterego | Or you can use Qt Mobility (even in python) as it has a nice method for measuring the distance between to lat/lon coords. |
| 23:12.45 | ds3 | but roadrunner seems to be a candidate to test out the idea |
| 23:12.53 | alterego | M'hmm |
| 23:13.17 | ds3 | distance between shouldn't be too hard; for the distances I want (<1 mile), couldn't I just use the distance formula? |
| 23:14.01 | alterego | m'hmm |
| 23:15.24 | ds3 | the only part I donno is how to interface with the alerts system |
| 23:20.10 | alterego | Well, that depends one what kind of alerts you want. |
| 23:20.23 | alterego | Are you talking about just normal hildon info banners? |
| 23:20.37 | MohammadAG | hmm, crap |
| 23:21.12 | Venemo | MohammadAG: what's crap? :P |
| 23:21.41 | alterego | humms inanely |
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| 23:22.33 | MohammadAG | Venemo, I broke the mediaplayer :P |
| 23:22.38 | ds3 | the full alerts thing, kind of like when a SMS comes in |
| 23:22.48 | wmarone | hm, what's the channel for the community ssu? |
| 23:23.10 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 23:23.47 | MohammadAG | wmarone, #maemo-ssu , I'm not responsible if anything breaks until it's released officially |
| 23:23.48 | pupnik | freenode slow for anyone else atm? |
| 23:23.57 | MohammadAG | 2s lag |
| 23:24.17 | wmarone | MohammadAG: yeah, just confused at an update that trickled down |
| 23:24.54 | MohammadAG | I'm testing stuff |
| 23:25.07 | lardman | night chaps |
| 23:25.38 | MohammadAG | going back to gedit for C/C++ is lulz |
| 23:26.13 | wmarone | ouch |
| 23:28.51 | alterego | gedit is awesome :P |
| 23:29.27 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 23:29.37 | ds3 | vi4ever |
| 23:30.37 | MohammadAG | indeed, but you don't get the autocomplete/syntax highlighting that Qt Creator provides :P |
| 23:31.06 | MohammadAG | yay |
| 23:31.10 | MohammadAG | one layout for the mediaplayer |
| 23:31.27 | MohammadAG | but I need to move the widgets in it, no idea how |
| 23:31.41 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 23:31.51 | timeless_mbp | wonders what it would take to get Ovi Suite to have non lame text |
| 23:33.21 | SpeedEvil | A large crowd of villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches? |
| 23:33.26 | MohammadAG | a better design team? :P |
| 23:33.43 | MohammadAG | that works too |
| 23:34.01 | Venemo | lol SpeedEvil |
| 23:34.09 | Venemo | MohammadAG: why gedit instead of Qt Creator? |
| 23:34.38 | MohammadAG | a bit lighter for quick code checkups :P |
| 23:34.47 | Venemo | heh, lol |
| 23:34.59 | Venemo | I would never give up an IDE for a notepad |
| 23:35.57 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 23:36.03 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 23:36.12 | MohammadAG | if something doesn't send clicked(), how do I make it do so again? :P |
| 23:36.30 | Venemo | MohammadAG: it does send clicked, but you may not have connected to it |
| 23:37.02 | MohammadAG | QGraphicsView doesn't send clicked() |
| 23:37.30 | Ex-Opesa | Can n900 play video codec "H264 MPEG-4 AVC" and audio codec "MPEG AAC"? |
| 23:37.56 | jacekowski | depends on profile |
| 23:38.02 | jacekowski | as in it can play all |
| 23:38.02 | MohammadAG | void QGraphicsView::mouseReleaseEvent(QMouseEvent *event) <-- assuming I need to go on with this? |
| 23:38.12 | jacekowski | but only some with hardware acceleration at normal framerate |
| 23:38.12 | Venemo | MohammadAG: ummmmm |
| 23:38.14 | alterego | M'hmm |
| 23:38.19 | Ex-Opesa | jacekowski: Can you please explain? |
| 23:38.26 | Venemo | MohammadAG: what would you like to achieve exactly? |
| 23:38.58 | jacekowski | Ex-Opesa: omap iva only has support for some codecs |
| 23:39.00 | MohammadAG | Venemo, a QGraphicsView that emits clicked() when clicked |
| 23:39.01 | Ex-Opesa | jacekowski: What you mean by "depends on provile" |
| 23:39.29 | jacekowski | Ex-Opesa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Profiles |
| 23:39.46 | jacekowski | Ex-Opesa: only baseline will be decoded at full framerate |
| 23:40.43 | Ex-Opesa | So how will I know which profile the video has which I am trying to play? :/ |
| 23:40.46 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@S0106001839e2f52f.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 23:41.24 | Venemo | MohammadAG: you'll have to make a derived class, make a clicked() signal for it, override its mouseReleaseEvent, and if the button is the left one, emit the clicked signal |
| 23:41.45 | *** join/#maemo tzafrir (~tzafrir@212.179.75.202) |
| 23:42.35 | jacekowski | Ex-Opesa: yeah |
| 23:42.46 | jacekowski | Ex-Opesa: it will either work or work at low framerate |
| 23:44.47 | Ex-Opesa | jacekowski: It doesn't even work. Which program should I use to convert it into baseline mpeg. I am not so experienced with multimedia codecs. |
| 23:46.13 | ShadowJK | The default media player just says unsupported format if it's not baseline |
| 23:46.52 | MohammadAG | Venemo, got it, one more question though, would I need to add the QGraphicsView outside of Designer? |
| 23:46.58 | Venemo | Ex-Opesa: try to playback with mplayer maybe |
| 23:47.12 | Venemo | MohammadAG: no, there is a "promote to..." feature in the designer |
| 23:47.38 | Venemo | MohammadAG: that way you can promote your QGraphicsView in the designer to "MaeMohamMediaGraphicsView" |
| 23:47.58 | Venemo | MohammadAG: (joking, sorry! :P) |
| 23:48.19 | MohammadAG | but that means I need an extra .h file right? |
| 23:49.31 | Venemo | for what? |
| 23:49.57 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@109-92-68-37.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 23:49.57 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 23:50.26 | MohammadAG | Venemo, the class |
| 23:50.35 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 23:50.42 | MohammadAG | experiments |
| 23:51.06 | Venemo | MohammadAG: yeah, as I said, you need to derive a class from QGraphicsView |
| 23:51.21 | Venemo | MohammadAG: you should make a .h and a .cpp for it |
| 23:51.27 | *** join/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@83.149.52.42) |
| 23:51.27 | Ex-Opesa | Venemo: Superb! It worked flawlessly. I installed kmplayer some days and I tried it first time now. It worked. Thanks Venemo. Can you tell me which program is used in default "media player" of n900? |
| 23:51.52 | SpeedEvil | It's a custom nokia program. |
| 23:51.56 | Venemo | Ex-Opesa: mafw is used, but I'm not sure what its backend is |
| 23:51.58 | SpeedEvil | For which no sources are available |
| 23:52.09 | Venemo | Ex-Opesa: anyway mplayer is good to give a spin when the default player fails |
| 23:52.33 | SpeedEvil | In some cases, the inbuilt player can use significantly less battery. |
| 23:52.53 | Ex-Opesa | Venemo: Indeed |
| 23:53.14 | Ex-Opesa | SpeedEvil: Yeah I think mplayer might use more cpu usage then default. Don't know just an assumption. |
| 23:53.17 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: that is why I said "when the default player fails" |
| 23:54.24 | Venemo | MohammadAG: any success? |
| 23:54.33 | MohammadAG | Venemo, just a sec |
| 23:58.29 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (~guysoft@bzq-109-64-46-137.red.bezeqint.net) |
