| 00:00.13 | Venemo | I thought Nokia and Intel like each other enough for such things |
| 00:00.24 | timeless_mbp | that's today |
| 00:00.30 | Venemo | right. |
| 00:00.31 | timeless_mbp | this was um... 2 years ago? |
| 00:00.45 | Venemo | 1 or 2 years ago, yes |
| 00:01.13 | ShadowJK | So now pushing upstream is good and 1-2 years ago it was bad? |
| 00:01.20 | Venemo | heh |
| 00:01.22 | timeless_mbp | no |
| 00:01.29 | ShadowJK | It's still bad? |
| 00:01.50 | timeless_mbp | the engineering team that had done the work was more or less no longer available to nokia |
| 00:01.53 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 00:02.06 | timeless_mbp | if they had unfinished/non upstreamed work at the time of the purchase, oh well |
| 00:02.12 | Venemo | I read a document written by Ari Jaaksi some years ago where he explains how the Maemo team takes pride in participating in open source communities and contributes to upstream |
| 00:02.15 | timeless_mbp | they just disappeared |
| 00:02.20 | Venemo | hm. |
| 00:02.32 | timeless_mbp | we do |
| 00:02.39 | timeless_mbp | but in that case, we had been paying for a team |
| 00:02.43 | ShadowJK | Ah, the development in secret thing |
| 00:02.44 | timeless_mbp | it more or less was the upstream |
| 00:02.50 | timeless_mbp | and then it was bought |
| 00:02.57 | timeless_mbp | and we couldn't pay for it anymore |
| 00:04.08 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: understandable then |
| 00:04.18 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 00:04.40 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-110-168-109-126.revip5.asianet.co.th) |
| 00:04.54 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: my other question is, how is the libmatchbox2 and libmatchbox1 thingies related to the upstream libmatchbox? |
| 00:05.04 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 00:05.09 | timeless_mbp | that's an older thing |
| 00:05.11 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: why is there 2 versions of the same lib in Fremantle? |
| 00:05.26 | timeless_mbp | i think i'd like to pretend i don't want to remember any of it :) |
| 00:05.44 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: you can tell me in PM if you're ashamed of it |
| 00:06.53 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: I just want to wrap my head around the various components required by the desktop |
| 00:11.30 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/matchbox-window-manager-2/README?force=1 seems vaguely friendly |
| 00:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 00:12.03 | DocScrutinizer | also LOL @ force=1 |
| 00:12.34 | DocScrutinizer | ""may the force be with you, mxr"" (in a low voice) |
| 00:12.46 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/matchbox-window-manager-2/README |
| 00:12.50 | timeless_mbp | is the alternative |
| 00:13.01 | Venemo | thx |
| 00:13.02 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 00:13.19 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz5 (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 00:13.32 | Venemo | thank you timeless_mbp |
| 00:13.41 | timeless_mbp | Venemo: you're sure we have matchbox1 floating around? |
| 00:13.50 | timeless_mbp | mxr.maemo.org/fremantle doesn't seem to |
| 00:14.00 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: otherwise why is it in http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop ? |
| 00:14.17 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=Package:%20libmatchbox&find=debian/control |
| 00:14.38 | Venemo | oh, yes |
| 00:14.46 | Venemo | and libmatchbox1 is installed on N900 |
| 00:14.55 | Venemo | (just checked with dpkg -l) |
| 00:15.00 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 00:15.36 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: ah, found the reason. "This matchbox 1 is only used during startup sequence for basic window management. Itâs not running when hildon-desktop is running." |
| 00:16.13 | timeless_mbp | yeah, but that doesn't quite explain why mxr doesn't show it |
| 00:16.18 | timeless_mbp | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/libm/libmatchbox1/ |
| 00:16.20 | timeless_mbp | it's in pool |
| 00:16.28 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: actually that's the most encouraging and nice README I've seen in whole maemo/meego so far |
| 00:16.50 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: yeah, i was pleasantly surprised when i read it a moment ago |
| 00:17.47 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@ti0189a340-1036.bb.online.no) |
| 00:18.01 | DocScrutinizer | if every subsystem had such a general sum-up of the broader view of the whole thing, it'd be much easier to deal with all the indigestible src-dump |
| 00:18.31 | DocScrutinizer | we might even have learned to live with abominations like mce if only they have had such a README |
| 00:19.49 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: so if I understood correctly, the team was fed up with upstream libmatchbox and decided to clone it from scratch to their liking and stop caring about the upstream one. right? |
| 00:20.22 | timeless_mbp | Venemo: please don't quote me, i had very little to do w/ the team |
| 00:20.39 | timeless_mbp | but your summary could be right |
| 00:21.34 | *** join/#maemo al4nc4ds (~al4Nc4Ds@metelitsa.ru) |
| 00:22.03 | *** join/#maemo till- (till@y037.yellow.fastwebserver.de) |
| 00:22.11 | Venemo | thx timeless_mbp |
| 00:23.04 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: is there someone from the team that made Fremantle Hildon Desktop who hangs out on IRC? |
| 00:23.16 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 00:24.58 | timeless_mbp | i think some of them do |
| 00:25.02 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) |
| 00:25.30 | Venemo | timeless_mbp: any of them friendly enough to answer some random questions like you do? |
| 00:25.36 | timeless_mbp | yeah |
| 00:26.14 | *** part/#maemo al4nc4ds (~al4Nc4Ds@metelitsa.ru) |
| 00:26.19 | Venemo | could you please point me to someone then? :) |
| 00:27.15 | DocScrutinizer | yawns like a dog |
| 00:27.47 | *** join/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@smtp.elizovotv.ru) |
| 00:29.23 | *** join/#maemo Jameswstubbs (~jameswstu@cpc1-mars1-0-0-cust551.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 00:29.59 | Jameswstubbs | Hello |
| 00:30.12 | Venemo | hi |
| 00:30.23 | Jameswstubbs | Is this a good irc room for n900 discussions? |
| 00:30.31 | Venemo | yes Jameswstubbs, it is |
| 00:30.41 | Jameswstubbs | Ah good |
| 00:30.42 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK2dwTVi-aQ world's greatest video game - for cats |
| 00:31.08 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.0.114) |
| 00:31.38 | Jameswstubbs | My N900 will only boot up to the nokia logo is there anyway to fix without re-flashing! |
| 00:31.47 | Jameswstubbs | ?* |
| 00:32.03 | SpeedEvil | Jameswstubbs: is the screen lit or not when it does this? |
| 00:32.22 | Jameswstubbs | Yes it lights, the status light also goes White |
| 00:32.57 | SpeedEvil | Flasing does not usually destroy much user data, if you do not flash the emmc image |
| 00:33.30 | *** join/#maemo v2px (v2px@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-enpjfycwxqpsexab) |
| 00:33.59 | Jameswstubbs | But will destroy installed applications ect. It's taken me a while to set up a nice multiboot setup would hate to see it destroyed |
| 00:35.26 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:58.52 | trumee | How do i select a font size between 16 and 24 in osso-term? |
| 00:59.30 | trumee | has watery eyes when using N900 with small fonts. |
| 01:00.18 | MohammadAG | use the volume keys |
| 01:00.21 | trumee | 24pt is too big in xterm and 16pt is small. |
| 01:00.54 | *** join/#maemo jesuselifelet_ (~jesuselif@187.153.246.249) |
| 01:00.58 | trumee | MohammadAG, nice one. |
| 01:01.03 | *** part/#maemo jesuselifelet_ (~jesuselif@187.153.246.249) |
| 01:01.36 | trumee | In xchat size 18 looks reasonable. |
| 01:02.49 | trumee | MohammadAG, crap the size doesnt stick after i restart xterm. |
| 01:03.02 | MohammadAG | it does here mate |
| 01:03.53 | luke-jr | gosh, MeeGo is ugly |
| 01:04.03 | luke-jr | their kernel sources that is |
| 01:04.13 | trumee | MohammadAG, ah. it is ok now. |
| 01:04.38 | trumee | luke-jr, why is that? |
| 01:04.51 | MohammadAG | luke-jr, +1 there |
| 01:04.55 | MohammadAG | they're retarded |
| 01:05.11 | MohammadAG | and when you ask for help on #meego you get a please wait, for $x da... months |
| 01:06.55 | luke-jr | trumee: like 500 patches, plus some magic to merge compat-wireless into it, plus some kind of config *compiling* |
| 01:07.14 | ShadowJK | I thought they had a "upstream" policy.. |
| 01:07.19 | luke-jr | lol |
| 01:07.28 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, haha |
| 01:07.30 | MohammadAG | ha |
| 01:07.33 | ShadowJK | :( |
| 01:07.41 | MohammadAG | you can only build the kernel if you know RPM |
| 01:07.46 | MohammadAG | how to use RPM that is |
| 01:07.51 | MohammadAG | rpmbuild to be more exact |
| 01:07.58 | luke-jr | what's that? |
| 01:08.02 | ShadowJK | oh I accidentally rebuilt my kernel on Redhat 6.1 once |
| 01:08.07 | ShadowJK | and I was clueless back then |
| 01:08.08 | MohammadAG | and if you try to be a smartass (hint: me), and apply that patches manually, they won't apply |
| 01:08.09 | ShadowJK | can't be that hard :/ |
| 01:08.16 | MohammadAG | they'll fail at the modem patch |
| 01:08.17 | luke-jr | >_< |
| 01:08.41 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 01:08.44 | MohammadAG | even the quilt patches fail |
| 01:09.10 | MohammadAG | Stskeeps told me to wait |
| 01:09.23 | MohammadAG | which (sorry if I'm mistaken) I usually interpret as fuck off |
| 01:09.31 | luke-jr | MohammadAG: I managed to make a working ebuild back in August |
| 01:09.32 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 01:09.36 | luke-jr | it's only gotten worse since then |
| 01:09.42 | Venemo_N900 | Stskeeps usually tells me to wait too |
| 01:09.43 | MohammadAG | dude |
| 01:09.58 | MohammadAG | MeeGo's sources are crap |
| 01:10.16 | MohammadAG | I wonder if this is a way to make us learn why they kept maemo closed source |
| 01:10.26 | MohammadAG | given that, maemo's open parts have much better sources |
| 01:10.26 | Venemo_N900 | partly is is |
| 01:10.28 | luke-jr | lol |
| 01:10.28 | Venemo_N900 | i guess |
| 01:10.40 | MohammadAG | I could just apt-get source kernel |
| 01:10.45 | MohammadAG | then build it |
| 01:11.14 | luke-jr | hey, you guys interested in mafia/wolf/yandere in #Yandere ? :p |
| 01:11.15 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 01:11.32 | *** join/#maemo till- (till@y037.yellow.fastwebserver.de) |
| 01:11.35 | MohammadAG | interested in mafw, does it count? :P |
| 01:12.41 | luke-jr | no |
| 01:14.16 | jacekowski | luke-jr: |
| 01:14.27 | jacekowski | and i know the rules |
| 01:18.50 | *** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 01:22.12 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 01:33.12 | Venemo | bye-bye everyone! |
| 01:33.57 | pupnik | cu Venemo |
| 01:38.08 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@18.157.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 01:38.55 | *** join/#maemo quanttrom (~quanttrom@206-248-184-119.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:39.21 | *** join/#maemo JamesWStubbs (~JamesWStu@cpc1-mars1-0-0-cust551.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 01:44.59 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 01:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | oh, so the ^H^Hmy club of meego-source and ecosystem haters has new members? |
| 01:45.58 | Venemo | lol DocScrutinizer |
| 01:46.05 | SpeedEvil | Problem is that you need a cabal. And those outside the cabal will always disagree. |
| 01:46.10 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: their code is a mess for sure. |
| 01:46.34 | SpeedEvil | Ideally, they are skilled, and their decisions are not bad,. |
| 01:47.28 | Venemo | nah good night guys |
| 01:48.23 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 01:48.53 | MohammadAG | meego's cool |
| 01:48.56 | MohammadAG | sources are retarded |
| 01:48.58 | DocScrutinizer | well, probably it's not worse than arbitrary other kernel code |
| 01:49.02 | DocScrutinizer | ;-) |
| 01:49.26 | alterego | It's open, submit patches |
| 01:50.00 | MohammadAG | alterego, I can't submit patches to something I can't build |
| 01:50.21 | MohammadAG | and before saying anything, it's not only me who can't build them |
| 01:50.32 | alterego | Heh |
| 01:50.51 | DocScrutinizer | that's the problem. You usually are reluctant to contribute patches for code the looks messed but is poorly commented so you never can be sure if the mess is due to sloppiness or incompetence or has an obscure reason it just *needs* to be that way |
| 01:53.08 | DocScrutinizer | and as devels regularly fail to provide a readme with a panorama view of the scope of the whole thing, you're usually even struggling to understand what this is meant to do and to work like at all |
| 01:55.24 | SpeedEvil | docs is the problem alright. |
| 01:55.26 | SpeedEvil | lack of |
| 01:56.13 | SpeedEvil | Meaning that people have to spend an couple of orders of magnitude (optimistically) more time understanding the architecture than a few line overall summary |
| 01:58.47 | DocScrutinizer | then there are noobs who think for example they can create a proof for max amount of jitter in UART clock in a S3C2442 when switching cpufreq, by running a for() loop on 100.000 cpu freq switches. And when there's no kernel panic during that they think the code is OK for upstream, and next 5 years thousands of devels wonder why they get random transmission errors on TTY. Just because the cpufreq patch is poorly written, poorly documented, |
| 01:58.48 | DocScrutinizer | and the fact I tried to talk with the devel about that problem isn't mentioned anywhere |
| 02:00.45 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 02:01.51 | jacekowski | take a look at windows sources |
| 02:02.01 | *** join/#maemo b-man|OFS (4b301ce9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.48.28.233) |
| 02:02.10 | DocScrutinizer | probably exactly the same, yeah |
| 02:02.10 | *** join/#maemo th0br0 (quassel@gg-com.de) |
| 02:02.10 | *** join/#maemo th0br0 (quassel@fedora/th0fed0) |
| 02:03.15 | DocScrutinizer | the best part was him saying "but we only have GPS on UART, so it's 9600bd maximum. This problem is sucked from your fingers" |
| 02:03.55 | MohammadAG | windows sources? |
| 02:04.26 | *** join/#maemo comawhite (comawhite_@kde/developer/karusler) |
| 02:05.21 | nox- | heh windows used 32bit crc as hash to `secure' a file against tampering... |
| 02:05.39 | nox- | (one of the stuxnet holes) |
| 02:05.56 | chx | 32 bit ought to be enough for anybody |
| 02:06.39 | DocScrutinizer | this is the type of kernel developers who also say "why would we need a mutex here? the instruction execution time for that move is just microseconds, even shorter" |
| 02:07.11 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B_ (~csb@78.149.128.158) |
| 02:07.13 | alterego | wonders how people should enter lat/lon values .. |
| 02:07.16 | DocScrutinizer | "I tested it for 3 days. works for me" |
| 02:07.29 | MohammadAG | alterego, QLineEdit |
| 02:07.42 | MohammadAG | or even better |
| 02:07.42 | *** join/#maemo Rarokillo (~Rarok@127.156.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 02:07.43 | alterego | I suppose I should force people to input their lat/lon values in the same format that I display it. |
| 02:07.49 | alterego | MohammadAG: obviously :P |
| 02:07.50 | SpeedEvil | alterego: a fruit-machine-thingy |
| 02:08.00 | alterego | SpeedEvil: you're not serious? |
| 02:08.04 | DocScrutinizer | ohnoes |
| 02:08.10 | SpeedEvil | alterego: It's the maemo way! |
| 02:08.12 | MohammadAG | no, not the iPhone thing |
| 02:08.17 | alterego | Heh |
| 02:08.21 | DocScrutinizer | WAAAH |
| 02:08.28 | alterego | It is touch friendly :D |
| 02:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and fun to use |
| 02:08.43 | DocScrutinizer | minutes of fun |
| 02:08.44 | SpeedEvil | alterego: a on-screen numpad wouldn't be a bad idea. |
| 02:09.22 | SpeedEvil | alterego: though IMO you need to accept both formats - decimal and dms |
| 02:09.25 | MohammadAG | a QLineEdit hardcoded to only support XX"YY"Z° |
| 02:09.32 | MohammadAG | or whatever the units are |
| 02:09.36 | alterego | SpeedEvil: I was thinking of that, but I mean the format as in: 52.00000, or, 52() 12" 123' |
| 02:10.03 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@S0106001839e2f52f.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 02:10.19 | SpeedEvil | Whatever you do, check you rollover right at the coners |
| 02:10.20 | alterego | Sure, but I think it should be flexible, I have 6 different output formats for lat/lon |
| 02:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | good principle |
| 02:11.10 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: ? |
| 02:11.29 | DocScrutinizer | >>I think it should be flexible |
| 02:11.38 | alterego | Yeah, |
| 02:12.16 | alterego | Think I'll do some regexp tests and see if I can differentiate all the different ways. |
| 02:12.26 | alterego | Then I can just let them enter any format I understand. |
| 02:12.37 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: there are these text input boxes with attached err rotary(?) (two arrows for incr/decr the value in box) |
| 02:12.54 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:12.54 | alterego | Yeah, a QSpinBox |
| 02:12.57 | alterego | Not so nice in maemo. |
| 02:13.01 | alterego | (Not touch friendly) |
| 02:13.04 | DocScrutinizer | right |
| 02:13.06 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 02:13.14 | DocScrutinizer | sorry |
| 02:13.18 | MohammadAG | time for a custom widget |
| 02:13.53 | alterego | I want my app to be pretty usable one handed in portrait mode ^.^ |
| 02:14.36 | MohammadAG | let's face it |
| 02:14.45 | MohammadAG | the only app that really needed portrait mode |
| 02:14.49 | MohammadAG | was fapman |
| 02:14.57 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 02:14.58 | alterego | O_o |
| 02:15.03 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:15.09 | DocScrutinizer | cackles |
| 02:15.28 | alterego | Neah, Ovi Store works fine in portrait .. |
| 02:15.42 | MohammadAG | it's a web page |
| 02:15.54 | MohammadAG | so you should be saying |
| 02:16.01 | MohammadAG | s/Ovi Store/MicroB/ |
| 02:16.18 | alterego | Well, no, becayse facebook isn't exactly touch friendly. |
| 02:16.22 | alterego | Well, unless you use the touch site. |
| 02:16.43 | MohammadAG | uses it with his thumb :P |
| 02:16.54 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:17.02 | MohammadAG | YES!!! |
| 02:17.02 | MohammadAG | rain! |
| 02:17.47 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:18.22 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: come here, I even got snow for you. Billions of m^3, you may take all of that shit with you |
| 02:18.34 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:18.46 | alterego | Kind of want to use RDF/XML for my Waypoint storage format ^.^ |
| 02:19.01 | MohammadAG | m^3? |
| 02:19.03 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 02:19.08 | MohammadAG | Is that like Symbian^3? |
| 02:19.10 | MohammadAG | jk :P |
| 02:19.13 | DocScrutinizer | cubic-meters |
| 02:19.17 | MohammadAG | i know lol |
| 02:19.34 | MohammadAG | you'd give all that snow for me? |
| 02:19.35 | MohammadAG | aww |
| 02:19.48 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:20.17 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: I'm absolute noob but my friend some time told me about standard formats for routes and waypoints |
| 02:20.40 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:21.00 | alterego | There's an XML format GPS |
| 02:21.02 | alterego | ~GPX |
| 02:21.07 | DocScrutinizer | seems to work surprisingly well even from symbian to linux to windows, arbitrary apps |
| 02:21.09 | alterego | Quite highly adopted, if that's what you mean. |
| 02:21.26 | DocScrutinizer | sorry I have nfc what I mean |
| 02:21.37 | alterego | :) |
| 02:21.41 | MohammadAG | just use the ones google maps can import :P |
| 02:22.01 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:22.01 | alterego | Well, there's an open standard called GPX which is used quite extensively by a lot of applications. |
| 02:22.14 | alterego | Google have GML or something. |
| 02:22.26 | MohammadAG | if you don't support what google maps can import |
| 02:22.30 | MohammadAG | you'll get lots of rage |
| 02:22.48 | alterego | Don't care. |
| 02:23.04 | MohammadAG | alterego, you'll regret that |
| 02:23.08 | MohammadAG | laughs diabolically |
| 02:23.13 | alterego | Are you threatening me?! :P |
| 02:23.27 | alterego | Seriously though, I'm only going to implement what I want to implement. |
| 02:23.28 | MohammadAG | Yes, we have your children! |
| 02:23.48 | alterego | If someone wants something specific they're going to either have to have a really good idea, or pay me. |
| 02:24.04 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: fair enough, as it's just an app |
| 02:24.13 | MohammadAG | does bacon count as a currency? |
| 02:24.27 | *** join/#maemo Guest4179 (~user@2.69.207.123) |
| 02:25.50 | MohammadAG | anyone ever noticed what hildon does when opening two stacked windows? |
| 02:25.55 | comawhite | ugh/me throws his n900 at the wall |
| 02:26.03 | *** join/#maemo HelpMe (~user@wsip-70-166-106-50.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:26.05 | MohammadAG | NO! |
| 02:26.05 | *** join/#maemo Guest4179 (~user@2.69.207.123) |
| 02:26.12 | MohammadAG | you should've run n900fly first |
| 02:26.20 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 02:27.01 | alterego | Heh |
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| 02:27.24 | comawhite | the stupid thing gives me bloody erors out the butt, "Not charging, insufficent power", "USB connected but you can't transfer files", "Charging, Not charging insufficent power" |
| 02:27.41 | MohammadAG | dude |
| 02:27.46 | MohammadAG | blame your USB ports |
| 02:27.56 | alterego | Wow, half 2 already. |
| 02:27.58 | comawhite | I can't even touch it or else it bitches |
| 02:27.58 | DocScrutinizer | or some app gone mad |
| 02:28.07 | auenf | or the bundled ca-101, which never charges for me |
| 02:28.11 | MohammadAG | I haven't seen that in any of the N900 sucks threads |
| 02:28.15 | auenf | the ca-101 that came with my n82 charges however |
| 02:28.40 | MohammadAG | saw a USB 3.0 device today |
| 02:28.41 | comawhite | i love the phone itself, but this is the only part I hate |
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| 02:28.47 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, broken cable? I've heard there have been cases |
| 02:29.02 | comawhite | hmm |
| 02:29.12 | MohammadAG | I get something weird though |
| 02:29.17 | comawhite | the cable on the outside looks perfect |
| 02:29.22 | HelpMe | i'm having trouble making calls with skype. i'm in the U.S. and i'm dialing 1-623-414-1234 but it says i need to dial internat'l #. |
| 02:29.41 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: attach it to the wallcharger |
| 02:29.43 | MohammadAG | whenever I unplug |
| 02:29.44 | comawhite | you don't need the 1 for domestic |
| 02:29.53 | MohammadAG | I get Device not enough power |
| 02:30.05 | comawhite | DocScrutinizer, I have no problems there as long as I don't move the usb cord |
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| 02:30.23 | MohammadAG | fauly port? |
| 02:30.30 | DocScrutinizer | yea |
| 02:30.34 | comawhite | probably |
| 02:30.44 | MohammadAG | I always have nightmares about those |
| 02:30.46 | DocScrutinizer | go let it fix asap! |
| 02:30.52 | HelpMe | comawhite: i tried w/out the 1, but it still won't work |
| 02:31.02 | MohammadAG | then I wake up and check the port |
| 02:31.08 | MohammadAG | jk :P |
| 02:31.10 | comawhite | can you even make long distance calls? |
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| 02:31.28 | auenf | further than 10m is long distance? |
| 02:31.31 | HelpMe | no |
| 02:31.41 | HelpMe | no calls at all |
| 02:31.52 | DocScrutinizer | US and phone numbers - SIGH |
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| 02:32.44 | comawhite | I think that's why the guy sold me his phone because he experienced the faulty port on the phone =[ |
| 02:33.09 | DocScrutinizer | HelpMe: in the rest of the world you have an international prefix, usually "00". On GSM it's generally "+". No idea what skype wants there but something you'll have to enter for international prefix |
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| 02:33.46 | HelpMe | i also pay to be able to call landlines and cell phones 3/month |
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| 02:34.28 | comawhite | HelpMe, your phone company sucks balls |
| 02:34.30 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: it sounds like it *can* be fixed with a soldering iron during 20 min NOW. If you however break it completely by using it another few days, then you'll probably need to replace the mainboard |
| 02:34.49 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, + is actually the `standard' notation, 00 is depending on county (and afaik wrong in u.s.) |
| 02:35.06 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: yes. exactly |
| 02:35.10 | comawhite | DocScrutinizer, any guides on how to take the phone apart? |
| 02:35.19 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 02:35.52 | MohammadAG | comawhite, follow your intuition |
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| 02:36.13 | MohammadAG | but seriously |
| 02:36.17 | MohammadAG | disassembling it is piss easy |
| 02:36.18 | alterego | Think it's bed time for me. |
| 02:36.20 | SpeedEvil | comawhite: First, check if you are under warranty |
| 02:36.21 | comawhite | I need to first check and see if the phone is still under warrenty |
| 02:36.21 | alterego | g'night folks. |
| 02:36.22 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/ |
| 02:36.24 | SpeedEvil | alterego: night |
| 02:36.27 | MohammadAG | night alterego |
| 02:36.34 | comawhite | but I wonder if Nokia would still fix it since I bought it used |
| 02:36.40 | comawhite | thanks dockane_ |
| 02:36.41 | MohammadAG | assembling it is piss... |
| 02:36.44 | comawhite | DocScrutinizer, * |
| 02:37.09 | MohammadAG | comawhite, get the service manual while you're at it |
| 02:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: there's also the service manuals |
| 02:37.18 | MohammadAG | :) |
| 02:37.19 | DocScrutinizer | L1&2 and L3&4 |
| 02:37.26 | MohammadAG | L1&2 for disassembly |
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| 02:37.38 | MohammadAG | 3&4 only readable by engineers :P |
| 02:37.40 | DocScrutinizer | you got a link handy? |
| 02:37.44 | MohammadAG | looks |
| 02:38.02 | MohammadAG | I need to up this somewhere http://rapidshare.com/#!download|376tl3|314266032|Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_Service_Level_1_2.pdf|1868 |
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| 02:39.56 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: just be careful with the cable between screen and kbd. It's a thin flat plastic cable and you must not bend or pull it |
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| 02:40.37 | MohammadAG | or smash it in place |
| 02:41.03 | DocScrutinizer | (bought as used) shouldn't matter. If it's under waranty then it is. No matter who's owning it |
| 02:41.11 | MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/.private/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_Service_Level_1_2.pdf |
| 02:41.36 | DocScrutinizer | pulblic/.private ? ;-P |
| 02:41.51 | MohammadAG | yeah, it's my private public folder :P |
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| 02:46.17 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, happy? it should return a 403 now :P |
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| 02:47.06 | DocScrutinizer | good idea |
| 02:47.20 | DocScrutinizer | mine is called internal/ |
| 02:47.30 | MohammadAG | hacks it |
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| 02:52.03 | comawhite | Your device, serial number <15 digits>, appears to be within the initial warranty period. This warranty verification covers the following 10 days. If you send your device in for repair after 10 days, please include a copy of the proof of purchase with your device to confirm that your unit is within the warranty period. |
| 02:52.06 | comawhite | hmm |
| 02:52.14 | comawhite | it say I only have 10 days left? |
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| 02:53.10 | DocScrutinizer | errm, yes? |
| 02:53.16 | comawhite | dammit |
| 02:53.17 | DocScrutinizer | frowns |
| 02:53.37 | comawhite | I wonder how much it will cost to send it |
| 02:53.40 | nox- | or you'd have to do that `warranty verification' again |
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| 02:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 02:54.00 | comawhite | and how i'll be able to do it since I don't have the actual proof of purchase |
| 02:54.07 | DocScrutinizer | but then the second sentence is quite nonsensical |
| 02:54.20 | nox- | mh |
| 02:54.35 | comawhite | i'll call Nokia tomorrow and what not |
| 02:54.36 | DocScrutinizer | actually 3rd |
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| 02:56.19 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: USA? |
| 02:56.34 | comawhite | yes |
| 02:56.43 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
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| 02:57.58 | jacekowski | comawhite: it's that they manufactured it less than years ago ( so regardless of what it is in warranty ) |
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| 02:58.40 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: USA warranty laws are weird |
| 02:58.43 | jacekowski | comawhite: but if it was manufactured more than year ago you have to provide proof that it spent some time on a shelf and you just got it not so long ago |
| 02:59.40 | DocScrutinizer | but yes, actually you are probably right |
| 03:00.01 | jacekowski | i don't think it's warranty law directly |
| 03:00.16 | jacekowski | it's just that nokia instead of requiring proof of purchase always |
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| 03:00.29 | jacekowski | will accept phone that was manufactured less than year ago without it |
| 03:00.31 | DocScrutinizer | I have no idea what's the legislation about warranty in US |
| 03:00.41 | jacekowski | that's how i think it works |
| 03:00.45 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 03:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | it also would mean comawhite's phone has 1st birthday in 10 days :-D |
| 03:01.42 | DocScrutinizer | (assuming the warranty is 1 year) |
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| 03:02.42 | comawhite | DocScrutinizer, I bought it used and only had it for a week or two |
| 03:02.52 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: anyway it'd be interesting to know what same webpage says when you visit it again in two days |
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| 03:03.27 | comawhite | yea |
| 03:04.11 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless make sure you send in your N900 for repair ASAP |
| 03:04.18 | daxt | guys , can we have an N8 style clock on N900 ? |
| 03:04.28 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
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| 03:04.52 | DocScrutinizer | wonders what an N8 style clock might look like |
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| 03:05.57 | DocScrutinizer | daxt: the question is if we can have exactly what you want, on maemo |
| 03:06.07 | comawhite | DocScrutinizer, have to wait for the new year since its new years tomorrow night |
| 03:06.24 | DocScrutinizer | yep, I see |
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| 03:07.05 | DocScrutinizer | well, if you send it 2.1. you're well in time |
| 03:07.28 | daxt | DocScrutinizer http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/key-lock-clock-2.jpg |
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| 03:08.25 | DocScrutinizer | daxt: yes. this is feasible |
| 03:09.18 | daxt | there has to be an app somewhere which does it already |
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| 03:09.55 | daxt | DocScrutinizer , what about the battery ? |
| 03:09.56 | DocScrutinizer | daxt: I'm not sure though what exactly are the details you want. |
| 03:10.10 | DocScrutinizer | that's one of those details |
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| 03:10.43 | DocScrutinizer | you can not have a backlight for that clock all the time, or your battery is down after some 10h max |
| 03:11.45 | DocScrutinizer | (this isn't different to N8. But maybe N8 doesn't need any backlight. N900 basically does - at least for color display with good contrast" |
| 03:11.48 | DocScrutinizer | ) |
| 03:12.08 | MohammadAG | N8 is AMOLED |
| 03:12.12 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 03:12.15 | MohammadAG | screen never turns off |
| 03:12.24 | DocScrutinizer | FFS |
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| 03:13.01 | MohammadAG | http://symbianworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Nokia-N8-Symbian%5E3-Screen-Saver-Big-Clock.jpg |
| 03:13.14 | DocScrutinizer | the nice part about AMOLED: one bright pixel needs just one pixel's power, not a whole backlight |
| 03:13.33 | MohammadAG | they do it in a smart way |
| 03:13.35 | pupnik | but a bright webpage will suck more than LCD |
| 03:13.41 | MohammadAG | the numbers are only borders |
| 03:13.50 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: yep |
| 03:13.54 | DocScrutinizer | possibly |
| 03:14.06 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: outline |
| 03:14.09 | MohammadAG | yes |
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| 03:14.37 | MohammadAG | though I find it annoying sometimes |
| 03:14.43 | DocScrutinizer | daxt: so the answer is: no, sorry. N900 can't do this |
| 03:14.48 | daxt | MohammadAG (PBUU) , is it ur n8 ? |
| 03:14.54 | MohammadAG | you see, most of my teachers think the device is off |
| 03:15.05 | MohammadAG | when the screen's actually locked |
| 03:15.16 | MohammadAG | daxt, PBUU? no, it's from google |
| 03:15.26 | MohammadAG | I have an N8 though - sorta |
| 03:15.34 | daxt | (PBUU ) ( Peace Be Upon U ) |
| 03:15.50 | MohammadAG | that's for the prophet only lol |
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| 03:16.22 | daxt | DocScrutinizer can we change the n900 screen to OLED ? |
| 03:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | also notice how dark this photo is. |
| 03:16.35 | DocScrutinizer | daxt: no |
| 03:16.44 | daxt | MohammedAG i am also a prophet ;) |
| 03:16.56 | MohammadAG | err |
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| 03:17.05 | DocScrutinizer | not THE prophet though |
| 03:17.12 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it's quite bright :P |
| 03:17.29 | MohammadAG | 's looking at the N8 now |
| 03:17.54 | MohammadAG | like the 2nd brightness option on the N900 |
| 03:17.58 | MohammadAG | 2/5 |
| 03:18.09 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, yes |
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| 03:19.44 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, also http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=906515&postcount=12 :P |
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| 03:20.09 | daxt_ | so we dont have the luxury of getting an OLED for our beloved venerable N900 !!! :( |
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| 03:21.46 | MohammadAG | technically, you might be able to get one working |
| 03:21.46 | daxt_ | ya |
| 03:21.46 | MohammadAG | you just need to hack around the kernel |
| 03:21.53 | daxt_ | it must be possible |
| 03:21.57 | MohammadAG | and the hardware |
| 03:22.00 | DocScrutinizer | daxt_: do you have the luxury to get a ferrari 12cyl engine for your beloved daihatsu? |
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| 03:22.17 | MohammadAG | LOL |
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| 03:22.46 | daxt_ | DocScrutinizer - but i can get a Toyota V6 :D |
| 03:22.58 | DocScrutinizer | and you can get N8 |
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| 03:23.14 | MohammadAG | lmao |
| 03:24.29 | DocScrutinizer | daxt_: the N900 hardware isn't built to work with an OLED screen - even if you'd fine a OLED display that would match by mechanical size |
| 03:24.41 | DocScrutinizer | find* |
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| 03:27.59 | DocScrutinizer | so you'd need additional hardware and probably a new case (let's call it N8) to hook up that OLED screen to N900, e.g. by VNC ;-) |
| 03:29.23 | DocScrutinizer | finding a vnc-client for N8 is probably the easiest way to implement OLED on N900 |
| 03:30.08 | DocScrutinizer | wait! or simply hook up an OLED TV to N900 AV-receptacle ;-D |
| 03:30.26 | pupnik | if you want to drive a cheap V12 (until it breaks) find a 1990s bmw 750i |
| 03:30.47 | MohammadAG | both ways, you won't have the same resolution |
| 03:30.51 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, actually |
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| 03:31.01 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, until it breaks means usually 1000km on those |
| 03:31.05 | MohammadAG | if you find me an OLED screen with the same ribbon |
| 03:31.20 | MohammadAG | I might be arsed to do some kernel patches to get it working :P |
| 03:31.32 | pupnik | you have to be knowledgeable about cars to even identify a good one |
| 03:31.58 | DocScrutinizer | If I'd find a OLED wit same ribbon, then we'd not need any kernel patches |
| 03:32.18 | GAN900 | I love SSDs |
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| 03:33.02 | DocScrutinizer | hi GeneralAntilles |
| 03:33.32 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you might, possibly to rename the sys path for backlight |
| 03:33.43 | MohammadAG | I doubt mce looks in /sys/class/backlight/* |
| 03:34.02 | MohammadAG | might need to* |
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| 03:34.33 | DocScrutinizer | nah, the backlight wouldn't change, as you'd need to use the backlight power to light up the pixels. So no change there |
| 03:35.02 | DocScrutinizer | toldya, same cable = same interface |
| 03:35.16 | Saviq | hi all, for some time now I've been having problems with Qt apps on my N900 - all the buttons are invisible, I can only see their labels |
| 03:35.38 | Saviq | any idea what might've caused that / how to fix apart from flashing? |
| 03:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | choose another theme maybe? |
| 03:36.06 | Saviq | default theme set |
| 03:36.12 | Saviq | and only Qt apps suffer |
| 03:36.14 | DocScrutinizer | anyway |
| 03:36.31 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, reinstall Qt libs maybe |
| 03:36.49 | MohammadAG | *all* Qt apps? |
| 03:37.36 | MohammadAG | apt-get --reinstall install hildon-theme-alpha libqt4-gui libqt4-maemo5 |
| 03:38.00 | DocScrutinizer | looks about right, yeah |
| 03:38.17 | GAN900 | pupnik, those things are such shit, though. |
| 03:38.35 | GAN900 | pupnik, they go for, like, 5-9k here. |
| 03:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | too much :-P |
| 03:39.56 | GAN900 | Yeah, well, still 7-series BMWs |
| 03:39.57 | DocScrutinizer | I had a SEC500, way better. Also 1990 |
| 03:40.15 | GAN900 | May have gone down since I last paid attention, though. |
| 03:41.17 | DocScrutinizer | aka W126. In USA probably only pimps drive that car X-P |
| 03:44.11 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/images?q=500SEC+W126C |
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| 03:53.17 | Termana | good morning |
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| 03:58.28 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: windows sources are available for licensees/governments |
| 03:59.16 | timeless_mbp | alterego: lat-lon input should support <click to enter> |
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| 04:08.34 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, heh |
| 04:08.43 | MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:/$ ./cliSend /test.o |
| 04:08.44 | MohammadAG | I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/share/sharing/services/pixelpipe.service.xml" |
| 04:08.44 | MohammadAG | I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/share/sharing/services/youtube.service.xml" |
| 04:08.44 | MohammadAG | Segmentation fault |
| 04:08.44 | MohammadAG | meh |
| 04:10.02 | timeless_mbp | comawhite: for reference when using skype you always need the + (or 00) [re: HelpMe] |
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| 04:11.23 | timeless_mbp | (and fwiw, the traditional way to dial international from the USA is 011 + country code + ...) |
| 04:15.00 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: quality car :) |
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| 04:15.15 | pupnik | why am i not surprised |
| 04:18.42 | pupnik | http://www.youmobile.org/blogs/posts/Josephws/category/Nokia-2010-07-14/50/1 [ Nokia N8 sales nearing 4 million units ] |
| 04:21.11 | *** join/#maemo jef91 (~jeff@c-98-193-76-2.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 04:21.18 | jef91 | Anyone know the best place to buy an N900? |
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| 04:37.58 | pupnik | nokia E7 has a great design imo http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nokia-e7-smartphone-01.jpg |
| 04:39.56 | DocScrutinizer | it *looks* nice. Wait til you _use_ it, and frequently have to press Q A Z BS ENTER CTRL |
| 04:44.27 | Termana | DocScrutinizer: BS? It has a bullshit button? :p |
| 04:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, BS on a shovel |
| 04:45.16 | lolloo | I like E8 |
| 04:45.23 | lolloo | its faaaaaaaaaaaaast |
| 04:46.07 | lolloo | wow E7 is coooool |
| 04:46.10 | DocScrutinizer | the BS looks a bit like an x |
| 04:46.14 | lolloo | I need a keybord |
| 04:46.52 | DocScrutinizer | at this <=| is a bit like the shovel :-P |
| 04:47.04 | lolloo | I hope N9 has cool design too! |
| 04:47.13 | lolloo | am getting it with MeeGo! |
| 04:48.27 | lolloo | awesome color! for the E7! |
| 04:48.39 | lolloo | everybody likes blue. |
| 04:49.11 | DocScrutinizer | Termana: the meaning of the bullshit key is "oops I typed bullshit" |
| 04:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | with the BS key you can shovel it away |
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| 04:52.32 | jef91 | anyone know what the default backkey is on the n900 for nitdroid? |
| 04:53.01 | lolloo | camera button |
| 04:54.23 | Termana | DocScrutinizer: I suppose that's why you have to frequently press it |
| 04:54.24 | Termana | :p |
| 04:54.59 | lolloo | E7 has better keyboard than N900 |
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| 04:55.40 | RobbieThe1st | Hey guys, where on the filesystem is contact data stored? |
| 04:56.06 | RobbieThe1st | My screen finally died, and I need to get a phone number off. |
| 04:56.28 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: find /home/user -name '*.db*' |
| 04:56.36 | RobbieThe1st | k |
| 04:56.41 | lolloo | home/user |
| 04:57.49 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: /home/user/.osso-abook/ |
| 04:58.06 | DocScrutinizer | I guess |
| 04:58.34 | RobbieThe1st | Thanks |
| 05:01.04 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: you'd be maybe better off hooking the N900 up to a TV |
| 05:01.39 | RobbieThe1st | Possible; I don't think I have a four-connector cable, though |
| 05:01.53 | RobbieThe1st | I didn't get one with my n900(used and all) |
| 05:01.55 | DocScrutinizer | then in contacts app, pick export from menu |
| 05:02.25 | pupnik | is there anything i can glue on my fingertip for better accuracy on capacitive screens? |
| 05:02.34 | pupnik | pencil sharpener no workee |
| 05:02.41 | jacekowski | nope |
| 05:02.50 | lolloo | how can I run MKV video on N900? |
| 05:02.52 | jacekowski | capacitive screen needs quite big point |
| 05:02.53 | RobbieThe1st | I can't see -anything-. I have SSH working... But I forgot my password. I'm going to backup my rootfs, copy that off(I can do that blind via BM)... |
| 05:02.56 | DocScrutinizer | nope, C-TS are of poor accuracy |
| 05:02.59 | jacekowski | lolloo: you can't |
| 05:03.05 | jacekowski | lolloo: as in you can |
| 05:03.06 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: /usr/bin/osso-backup |
| 05:03.10 | jacekowski | lolloo: but with low framerate |
| 05:03.13 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: you can run that with ssh |
| 05:03.19 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: over X |
| 05:03.32 | lolloo | I installed KMPlayer. |
| 05:03.36 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: I mean - set DISPLAy onto your desktop. |
| 05:03.38 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 05:03.42 | lolloo | but stays on buffering. |
| 05:03.57 | RobbieThe1st | I'll try that as soon as I recover my password |
| 05:04.22 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: how backup your fs? |
| 05:04.23 | lolloo | jacekowski, sad, thankyou. |
| 05:04.24 | RobbieThe1st | Idiot me didn't use a standard password for it when I was testing SSH functionality |
| 05:04.51 | RobbieThe1st | BackupMenu V2(which I wrote..) so it's a tarball |
| 05:05.14 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 05:05.54 | lolloo | am going to make N900 use GPU on psp using USB. |
| 05:05.57 | RobbieThe1st | Wow. I'm amazed. It actually worked. Now, lets see... |
| 05:06.30 | lolloo | N900 is missing a good GPU accelerator. |
| 05:08.22 | ds3 | anyone know of a US source for replacement N900 stylus? |
| 05:08.24 | RobbieThe1st | Ah. That worked - Grabbed the rootfs, copied out passwd, ran through johntheripper... (pass was: "mypass") |
| 05:08.32 | ds3 | or at least a source that takes $ instead of euros |
| 05:08.43 | RobbieThe1st | Ebay? |
| 05:08.51 | ds3 | besides ebay |
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| 05:09.28 | SpeedEvil | ds3: Whittle one |
| 05:09.36 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 05:09.38 | lolloo | www.osmocom.org |
| 05:10.17 | lolloo | that allows you to map out the antennas on your computer |
| 05:11.38 | lolloo | he baseband firmware for the motorola c155 here: |
| 05:12.37 | RobbieThe1st | ...And problem solved. "cat /media/disk/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db"; info in plain text |
| 05:15.11 | DocScrutinizer | hmm yeah, for a messed up structure just to grep out a single number, that's perfectly feasible :-D |
| 05:15.15 | RobbieThe1st | Quick question, guys: On the N900's mainboard, there's a little clock-backup battery. Does anyone know anything about the type/voltage of this battery? I assume it's either a 1.6V or 3V... |
| 05:16.06 | DocScrutinizer | it's a probably hitachy very special LiIon cell |
| 05:16.15 | DocScrutinizer | Hitachi even |
| 05:16.28 | DocScrutinizer | something like 2..2.5V |
| 05:17.00 | DocScrutinizer | Or Seiko |
| 05:17.05 | chx | o_O they make such ? I thought 3.7v was the norm |
| 05:17.20 | DocScrutinizer | not for backup cells |
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| 05:19.57 | DocScrutinizer | http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seiko-Instruments/HB414-IV01E/?qs=VbHzlErGQr7%2bGt3HnzKCqg== |
| 05:20.05 | DocScrutinizer | 3.0V actually |
| 05:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | they are known to suck and leak and break |
| 05:23.12 | DocScrutinizer | on Openmoko FR we had like 40% dead cells, after some 6 months from production |
| 05:23.17 | ds3 | blah |
| 05:23.52 | DocScrutinizer | so actually you're better of with a CRnnnn primary cell |
| 05:24.16 | ds3 | why not use a supercap? |
| 05:24.23 | DocScrutinizer | or even better, some goldcap or similar. 1F should fit nicely |
| 05:26.08 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe 0.07F ;-D |
| 05:26.32 | DocScrutinizer | aka XH414H |
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| 05:32.41 | RobbieThe1st | DocScrutinizer: But what would charge the cap? |
| 05:32.48 | RobbieThe1st | Run a line from the battery? |
| 05:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | nah, it's charged by same electronic that cares about backup battery |
| 05:33.42 | RobbieThe1st | Oh, it does get charged? I thought it was a primary cell |
| 05:33.42 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: you should get an Archos A70s too... http://i.imgur.com/g9d5l.jpg |
| 05:34.42 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: it's supposed to withstand 200..1000 charge cycles. But in real life it's worse than a primary cell |
| 05:35.12 | RobbieThe1st | Fair enough; I'll find a small cap to replace it |
| 05:35.36 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: XH414H |
| 05:35.42 | DocScrutinizer | http://de.mouser.com/catalog/642/2318.pdf |
| 05:36.56 | RobbieThe1st | Is that the original one? |
| 05:37.36 | DocScrutinizer | that is a capacitor. Original of Freerunner is at top of page |
| 05:37.51 | DocScrutinizer | HB414 |
| 05:38.38 | RobbieThe1st | Ah |
| 05:38.45 | DocScrutinizer | ok, the capacitor has only 70mAs or somesuch, instead of 0.1mAh |
| 05:39.23 | DocScrutinizer | but it should still suffice for a reasonably long period of keeping the RTC running |
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| 05:40.12 | RobbieThe1st | how long was the orig. battery -supposed- to last? |
| 05:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | something from hours to days at least |
| 05:40.30 | DocScrutinizer | original one: years |
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| 05:41.45 | DocScrutinizer | actually for FR PCF50633 chip with RTC the current drawn from backup battery wasn't specified. Some uA |
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| 05:42.33 | RobbieThe1st | So, that should last a few weeks at least - if the orig has 360mAs vs 70 |
| 05:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | yep, at very least it should last >1h |
| 05:43.29 | RobbieThe1st | Better than the <5s I get now... |
| 05:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | and this is time without main battery. Even a depleted main battery still can power the RTC |
| 05:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | so realistically an hour is more than enough, to swap batteries |
| 05:44.29 | DocScrutinizer | probably it will be enough to charge cell externally as well |
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| 05:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | (~3h) |
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| 05:45.42 | RobbieThe1st | Yea |
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| 05:50.41 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: take the years from above with a grain of salt. We never did real calculations it seems, as we didn't even know the power consumption of our RTC. I think I've seen other such chips' datasheets and there's been 0.x uA been mentioned |
| 05:51.04 | SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: also - first thing to do is check if you are covered by warranty. It's a bit silly to start opening it if you are |
| 05:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | you could dig up the corresponding value from twl4030 datasheet maybe |
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| 05:54.08 | DocScrutinizer | aiui N900 can't be older than a year. So most probably you still have waranty |
| 05:54.41 | SpeedEvil | it's a bit more than a year now. |
| 05:54.49 | SpeedEvil | But many have 2 year warranty |
| 05:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | depends |
| 05:55.06 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 05:58.26 | RobbieThe1st | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | why? |
| 05:58.58 | DocScrutinizer | screen black isn't your fault usually |
| 05:59.30 | DocScrutinizer | the FPC cable is known to fail |
| 05:59.37 | RobbieThe1st | Yesterday: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/IMGP2669-small.jpeg |
| 05:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | causing display failure |
| 05:59.52 | RobbieThe1st | Two weeks ago when it happened: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/IMGP2668.JPG |
| 06:00.39 | SpeedEvil | That's an LCD failure, not a FPC I think |
| 06:00.44 | DocScrutinizer | this looks like broken FPC |
| 06:00.53 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 06:00.55 | RobbieThe1st | There's a visible crack in the LCD |
| 06:01.00 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 06:01.04 | SpeedEvil | yeah - clearly a crack |
| 06:01.09 | DocScrutinizer | so then it's clearly your fault |
| 06:01.28 | RobbieThe1st | I'm still not sure how it happened, considering the digitizer is undamaged |
| 06:01.40 | DocScrutinizer | yeah I missed that |
| 06:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | scary |
| 06:02.32 | DocScrutinizer | you got a replacement LCD? |
| 06:02.51 | RobbieThe1st | Yup; $50 or so off ebay all told |
| 06:03.00 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 06:03.11 | RobbieThe1st | I ordered it last night; should be here within ten days |
| 06:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | that's quite a nice pricetag, here they are like 80⬠|
| 06:03.22 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 06:03.56 | RobbieThe1st | Direct from hong kong |
| 06:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 06:05.11 | DocScrutinizer | take care of the FPC anyway, when you disassemble it |
| 06:05.12 | RobbieThe1st | While I'm at it, I might as well order a cap to replace the bad battery... |
| 06:05.18 | RobbieThe1st | fpc? |
| 06:05.19 | DocScrutinizer | those are flimsy |
| 06:05.26 | RobbieThe1st | Oh, the cable |
| 06:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | flat plastic connector/cable |
| 06:05.57 | RobbieThe1st | Yea, I just took it apart. It looks in fine shape, but yea, I'll be careful |
| 06:06.37 | RobbieThe1st | (Note to everyone: set of mini-torx bits === useful!) |
| 06:06.47 | DocScrutinizer | it's usually the B2B connector end that breaks. Too many vias there |
| 06:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | the apperture where the FPC enters the screen compartment is another critical point |
| 06:07.58 | DocScrutinizer | traces may break if you pull and bend the cable over the metal frame there |
| 06:08.54 | RobbieThe1st | Ah |
| 06:11.52 | RobbieThe1st | So, as far as the battery goes, that cap from digikey is the way to go? |
| 06:12.07 | *** join/#maemo thefool (~chris@c-174-48-52-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 06:13.03 | thefool | Hey guys, just bought an n900 off of ebay and as much as I'm loving it I've been having one very annoying problem. I only get sound in one ear. I've tried using different headphones with no luck. And I got this before and after a flash. |
| 06:13.19 | thefool | Any ideas what would cause this? |
| 06:13.34 | chx | dirt in the headphone socket? |
| 06:13.47 | RobbieThe1st | Either the headphone port is broken/dirty, or one of the amplifier channels died |
| 06:14.08 | thefool | Well, it seems plenty clean. |
| 06:14.34 | thefool | So what would it mean if one of the amplifier channels died? |
| 06:14.37 | RobbieThe1st | Try wiggling the headphone. Does it move at all? |
| 06:14.49 | thefool | Not substantially. |
| 06:15.05 | RobbieThe1st | Try playing audio and wiggling it slightly |
| 06:15.22 | thefool | Doing that now |
| 06:15.24 | pupnik | does sound come out of both speakers? |
| 06:15.42 | thefool | I can't tell. |
| 06:16.09 | pupnik | nice nickname |
| 06:16.30 | thefool | Yes, it seems to be coming out of both speakers. |
| 06:16.34 | RobbieThe1st | Try lowering the volume almost all the way, then listen to each speaker in turn |
| 06:16.44 | thefool | (just did that, thanks :) ) |
| 06:16.48 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: is this a cool algorithm or is this a cool algorithm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM3WWurYmLw |
| 06:17.39 | thefool | So would that rule out the amplifier issue and mean that it's a problem with the jack? |
| 06:17.50 | SpeedEvil | thefool: The jack is mounted to the board with clips. |
| 06:17.55 | RobbieThe1st | DocScrutinizer: I'm gonna order that capacitor now.. |
| 06:18.16 | SpeedEvil | thefool: these can get dirty, or bent, and the socket can be damaged by foreign objects inside it |
| 06:18.27 | SpeedEvil | In principle, you can swap out the socket very simply |
| 06:19.00 | thefool | Ok, I can't see a simple way to even get to it. |
| 06:19.03 | SpeedEvil | I don't have links to suppliers of socket though |
| 06:19.08 | SpeedEvil | you unscrew the case |
| 06:19.30 | thefool | Ok |
| 06:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: yep, go ahead. It looks fine |
| 06:20.30 | *** join/#maemo maswan (maswan@kennedy.acc.umu.se) |
| 06:20.36 | thefool | Alright, that shouldn't be too horrible. |
| 06:20.54 | thefool | As long as the sockets connections to the board are not ridiculously small. |
| 06:20.59 | thefool | Thanks. |
| 06:21.11 | RobbieThe1st | Thefool, wait. Let me give you the official disassembly guide |
| 06:21.14 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: NICE |
| 06:21.42 | jacekowski | http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/ |
| 06:21.42 | pupnik | :) |
| 06:21.44 | RobbieThe1st | http://thehandheldblog.com/2009/11/30/download-the-n900-service-manual-see-the-n900-get-disassembled/ |
| 06:22.05 | pupnik | i spent about a few weeks making crazy effects |
| 06:22.19 | pupnik | then i got sad because i can't optimize anything worth hsit |
| 06:22.29 | jacekowski | oO |
| 06:22.31 | jacekowski | L12 |
| 06:22.33 | RobbieThe1st | thefool: Having disassembled mine for the first time not an hour ago, let me tell you that you should be -very- careful. There is no need for much force; once the screws are out a slight wiggling will take it apart |
| 06:22.34 | DocScrutinizer | thefool: they ARE ridiculously small |
| 06:23.06 | thefool | Bugger |
| 06:23.13 | RobbieThe1st | I have to say, though - the n900's well designed. |
| 06:23.33 | RobbieThe1st | Make sure you've got a ph00 screwdriver(tiny philips) |
| 06:23.38 | thefool | That's because the fins did it :) |
| 06:24.18 | RobbieThe1st | Oh, and you need a small torx driver - a T06. This you'll probably have to buy |
| 06:24.19 | thefool | Yeah, looks like some of them need the star drivers too. |
| 06:24.35 | thefool | Yeah, no worries, I have a set of them. |
| 06:24.40 | RobbieThe1st | Ah, good |
| 06:25.01 | RobbieThe1st | If you are -that- prepared, you won't have any trouble |
| 06:25.08 | thefool | So what are the chances that this is something I can easily fix? |
| 06:25.26 | RobbieThe1st | I don't know; this is the first I've heard of it happening. |
| 06:25.38 | thefool | Bummer |
| 06:25.44 | DocScrutinizer | thefool: are you sure you want to do this? Isn't N900 covered by warranty anymore? |
| 06:25.48 | jacekowski | check L34 manual |
| 06:26.02 | thefool | Not sure, just bought it off ebay and got it in the mail today. |
| 06:26.31 | thefool | I'm not even sure how to check to see if it is covered. |
| 06:26.51 | DocScrutinizer | so you should check with Nokia webpage if it's covered by warranty |
| 06:27.07 | RobbieThe1st | You'll need the IMEI number, under the battery |
| 06:27.14 | DocScrutinizer | there's a non-marginal chance you break it completely by disassembling it |
| 06:27.24 | thefool | Ok, will google around for the right area then. Thanks. Have the IMEI handy even thanks to a recent flash. |
| 06:27.59 | *** join/#maemo chx_ (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 06:29.38 | DocScrutinizer | ask comawhite |
| 06:29.42 | thefool | Your device, serial number 356938030854526, appears to be within the initial warranty period. This warranty verification covers the following 10 days. If you send your device in for repair after 10 days, please include a copy of the proof of purchase with your device to confirm that your unit is within the warranty period. |
| 06:29.47 | DocScrutinizer | he did it some hours ago |
| 06:30.00 | thefool | Dang, good timing, only 10 days left...? Or am I reading this wrong. |
| 06:30.44 | jacekowski | thefool: on L3_4 manual there is whole section on audio troubleshooting |
| 06:30.51 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-12-31 03:52:03] <comawhite> Your device, serial number <15 digits>, appears to be within the initial warranty period. This warranty verification covers the following 10 days. If you send your device in for repair after 10 days, please include a copy of the proof of purchase with your device to confirm that your unit is within the warranty period. |
| 06:30.53 | comawhite | DocScrutinizer, eh? |
| 06:31.08 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's strange |
| 06:31.21 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: have you tried it with your serial number? |
| 06:31.34 | DocScrutinizer | no, not yet :-D |
| 06:32.12 | thefool | jacekowski, No idea what that manual is and googling for it isn't coming up with anything meaningful yet. |
| 06:32.38 | jacekowski | thefool: http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/ |
| 06:32.41 | jacekowski | thefool: all in there |
| 06:33.10 | jacekowski | all most important parts |
| 06:33.46 | DocScrutinizer | the video also is kinda helpful, though they are severely cheating |
| 06:34.10 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, use your warranty, thefool ! |
| 06:34.30 | thefool | Yeah, I think I will, I just don't want to part with the stinking phone already lol |
| 06:34.46 | jacekowski | if you go to nokia care shop |
| 06:34.50 | jacekowski | they may replace it while you waith |
| 06:34.53 | jacekowski | wait* |
| 06:35.06 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 06:35.15 | thefool | (I've never so much as heard of one of those, where do you live?) |
| 06:35.26 | jacekowski | UK |
| 06:35.42 | DocScrutinizer | replacement of AV connector is probably the easiest fix after replacement of broken back cover :-) |
| 06:35.46 | jacekowski | they have nokia care shops in US |
| 06:37.04 | DocScrutinizer | wishes replacing USB connector would be similarly easy |
| 06:37.34 | DocScrutinizer | and I actually don't understand why it isn't |
| 06:38.11 | jacekowski | because usb sucks |
| 06:38.11 | DocScrutinizer | I mean USB has 5 pins (+ shield). AV has at least 5 connectors |
| 06:38.17 | jacekowski | and firewire is a lot better |
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| 06:38.55 | DocScrutinizer | s/connectors/pins |
| 06:39.13 | RobbieThe1st | Heck, if they'd thought about it, they would have used usb-mini instead of micro |
| 06:39.26 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 06:39.30 | RobbieThe1st | mini's so much more robust, and it'd fit in the space |
| 06:39.36 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 06:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 06:39.53 | DocScrutinizer | micro is more durable than mini |
| 06:40.02 | DocScrutinizer | 10000 vs 5000 rounds |
| 06:41.04 | RobbieThe1st | Theoretically... in reality, I've had two usb-micro cables become flaky, and -how- many people have had usb-micro ports come out |
| 06:41.42 | jacekowski | that's not because of that |
| 06:41.50 | jacekowski | it's because of technology |
| 06:41.59 | RobbieThe1st | No, it's because of the (flimsy) mounting internally |
| 06:42.01 | jacekowski | all you have is very thin tracks made from copper |
| 06:42.08 | DocScrutinizer | that's two unrelated problems, and the 10000 are for receptacle. It's designed so plug on able wears out, not the hard to replace receptacle |
| 06:42.10 | thefool | Ouch, I live in Florida, the nearest repair center is in Alabama. |
| 06:42.11 | jacekowski | glued to FR4 |
| 06:42.16 | thefool | Mailing it in I guess. |
| 06:42.55 | jacekowski | thefool: hmm, well here in civilised parts of the world we have nokia care store probably within less than 100 miles everywhere |
| 06:43.12 | jacekowski | and most people probably live closer than 40 miles from one |
| 06:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia's standing in USA is different |
| 06:43.42 | RobbieThe1st | Thing is, I've got several (cheap) usb-mini cables. None of them failed or got flaky. I've got two usb-mini cables here that -look- ok, but are incredibly flaky, only working if they are pushed in just right. |
| 06:43.48 | thefool | Yeah well, eventually I'll have to move to a more civilized country. |
| 06:43.56 | RobbieThe1st | Forgive me for being biased, but... |
| 06:44.32 | jacekowski | it's overal usb design |
| 06:44.34 | jacekowski | that's crap |
| 06:44.51 | jacekowski | because you have small bump on almost flat piece of metal |
| 06:44.51 | RobbieThe1st | True enough. |
| 06:44.56 | *** join/#maemo Natunen (nalle@213-186-248-75.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 06:45.00 | jacekowski | that is suppose to connect devices |
| 06:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | well, whatever your feelings are regarding mini vs micro - mini is deprecated and will vanish |
| 06:45.07 | jacekowski | because it's not even proper spring loaded |
| 06:45.16 | jacekowski | it wears of too fast |
| 06:45.37 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 06:45.40 | jacekowski | my wireless mouse reciever is working in only one port of my laptop |
| 06:45.46 | jacekowski | because other ports are worn |
| 06:46.00 | jacekowski | and because they use plain pcb with uncovered tracks as connector |
| 06:46.05 | jacekowski | so it's completly flat |
| 06:46.15 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d) |
| 06:46.16 | jacekowski | and any wear on laptop side will make it not connect |
| 06:46.26 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 06:46.41 | jacekowski | usb B is a lot better |
| 06:46.45 | jacekowski | but it's big |
| 06:46.59 | jacekowski | iphone dock connector is nice |
| 06:47.04 | jacekowski | it has feature of locking in place |
| 06:47.23 | jacekowski | all with nice spring sort of design |
| 06:47.34 | DocScrutinizer | well, doen't help. You'll have to live with micro-USB |
| 06:48.28 | jacekowski | and other thing is |
| 06:48.36 | RobbieThe1st | Well, actually I don't. If it gets to be too much of a pain, I'll just get a mini-ab port off ebay, replace it, and enlarge the hole in the case. Problem solved. |
| 06:48.37 | thefool | Also while I have an audience is there an easy way I'm overlooking to return to the home screens? |
| 06:48.41 | jacekowski | what is current carrying capacity of that connection |
| 06:49.13 | jacekowski | because you have thin contacts |
| 06:49.21 | jacekowski | that are going to be dirty ussualy |
| 06:49.51 | DocScrutinizer | IIRC 1A |
| 06:50.04 | jacekowski | when new |
| 06:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | thefool: press ctrl-bs, hit to the empty area |
| 06:50.18 | jacekowski | what is real current you can pass trough it is a question |
| 06:50.18 | SpeedEvil | thefool: camkeyd - or something |
| 06:54.16 | thefool | Thanks |
| 06:55.59 | ds3 | camkeyd is nice |
| 06:58.16 | thefool | Ok, so since I just spent 3 hours installing apps what is the best way to backup everything before sending this in to nokia being that I don't have an micro sd card? |
| 07:00.10 | pupnik | thefool: i think you can use the pc suite for that (connect via usb) |
| 07:01.23 | thefool | Anything for linux? |
| 07:01.49 | RobbieThe1st | thefool: backupmenu |
| 07:01.49 | pupnik | i never backed-up installed apps before |
| 07:01.56 | thefool | Well, that's good enough I guess, I'll just boot up a vm. Thanks. |
| 07:02.21 | RobbieThe1st | it's in the devel repo. Complete system image, and it's os-independant(n900-centric) |
| 07:03.47 | thefool | oooh |
| 07:03.50 | thefool | Nice |
| 07:04.15 | thefool | So Nokia's return policy stinks. I have to pay shipping. |
| 07:06.21 | doc|home | thefool: that's normal |
| 07:06.46 | doc|home | any time I've known of that you need to return to the manufacturer that is |
| 07:07.43 | thefool | Really? With my blackberry they shipped me a new one with a return label just like dell. |
| 07:08.04 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (~jep@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:08.17 | doc|home | thefool: that's for a replacement, but you're looking for a repair, aren't you? |
| 07:08.21 | doc|home | perhaps I'm wrong |
| 07:08.39 | AD-N770 | good morning maemo |
| 07:08.55 | thefool | Hmm, good point. |
| 07:09.14 | AD-N770 | my n900 gone to nokia repair service because wasn't charging anymore |
| 07:09.33 | doc|home | night |
| 07:09.40 | AD-N770 | they returned it back to me yesterday with a board change |
| 07:10.10 | AD-N770 | but unfortunately they didn't notice that keyboard wasn't the spanish variant |
| 07:10.41 | AD-N770 | but now it seems to react as an spanish keyboard instead of english one |
| 07:10.45 | lolloo | AD-N770, lol |
| 07:10.55 | AD-N770 | for example . is ñ |
| 07:11.10 | AD-N770 | do you know if I can change it myself ? |
| 07:11.22 | lolloo | I will spank Nokia. |
| 07:11.33 | AD-N770 | I've reflashed just now PR1.3 but didn't helped |
| 07:11.42 | lolloo | try downoading ukeyboard |
| 07:11.44 | SwedeMike | http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard perhaps? |
| 07:12.42 | *** join/#maemo juk (~juk@221.221.17.133) |
| 07:13.03 | *** join/#maemo delphi (~delphi@77-46-176-100.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 07:13.42 | DocScrutinizer | how about selecting spanish keyboard layout in settings? |
| 07:13.56 | *** join/#maemo delphi (~delphi@77-46-176-100.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 07:14.52 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe the english keyboard :-) |
| 07:15.31 | DocScrutinizer | in settings-textinput |
| 07:16.23 | AD-N770 | DocScrutinizer: good that worked |
| 07:16.24 | AD-N770 | thanks |
| 07:16.35 | DocScrutinizer | actually it's called "english, nederlands" |
| 07:16.42 | AD-N770 | I've seen |
| 07:17.47 | AD-N770 | what's the current state of art to run meego? |
| 07:18.20 | AD-N770 | I think I've read something on dual boot maemo/meego somewhere |
| 07:18.38 | AD-N770 | there's any recipe in the wiki to setup this? |
| 07:22.27 | pupnik | talk.maemo.org has stuff |
| 07:22.34 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:22.42 | pupnik | nice to see you again AD-N770 |
| 07:23.21 | AD-N770 | hi pupnik |
| 07:23.52 | AD-N770 | I'm not really back in the scene, just wanted to play a little during next holidays days |
| 07:24.19 | AD-N770 | my 2 daughters keep me really busy :) |
| 07:26.00 | pupnik | i bet |
| 07:26.03 | pupnik | hey 2? congrats |
| 07:28.03 | AD-N770 | thanks, Bruna is now 2y9m and Berta is 9m older |
| 07:28.06 | pupnik | AD-N770: so you picked up a n900 now? |
| 07:28.38 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@92.96.171.137) |
| 07:28.39 | pupnik | meego won't run on the 770 :) |
| 07:28.40 | AD-N770 | I've got one during Barcelona's long weekend |
| 07:28.47 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (~guysoft@bzq-79-179-37-80.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 07:28.50 | pupnik | ah k |
| 07:29.23 | AD-N770 | but I couldn't play a lot with it yet |
| 07:29.42 | AD-N770 | until it failed charging |
| 07:30.19 | ds3 | why won't meego run on the 770? |
| 07:30.53 | AD-N770 | probably because is arm7 |
| 07:31.04 | AD-N770 | s/arm7/arm5 |
| 07:31.15 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:31.19 | AD-N770 | and meego images are built for arm7 |
| 07:31.49 | pupnik | and "640KB should be enough for anyone" |
| 07:32.47 | RobbieThe1st | :P |
| 07:33.10 | AD-N770 | I'm still happy with my n810 |
| 07:33.32 | pupnik | i love the speakers on n810 |
| 07:34.08 | pupnik | keyboard and dpad, not so much |
| 07:34.09 | AD-N770 | from my point of view is the best device in the family |
| 07:34.25 | ds3 | but you should be able to rebuild for ARMv5 |
| 07:35.53 | AD-N770 | ds3: maybe, I haven't tried to build meego stack myself but I've the feeling that will take a long long time |
| 07:36.03 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 07:36.07 | ds3 | hmm |
| 07:36.22 | AD-N770 | in my hacking list is attempt to make meego work on a joggler |
| 07:36.30 | ds3 | joggler? |
| 07:36.54 | pupnik | i think someone did this, no? |
| 07:37.30 | AD-N770 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_Joggler |
| 07:37.49 | AD-N770 | I've got one for 50pounds at uk |
| 07:37.54 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:38.58 | AD-N770 | yes, I've chatted with one guy that made meego work on the joggler |
| 07:39.23 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~lolloo@2.89.56.141) |
| 07:39.39 | *** join/#maemo Guest75056 (~ns-team@212.200.199.30) |
| 07:40.10 | lolloo | how can stream this on N900 mms://66.172.3.142/3 |
| 07:40.12 | lolloo | ? |
| 07:40.18 | AD-N770 | I've currently running ubuntu (UNR) but is not very stable and I've the feeling that cooling is not good enough on this particular unit |
| 07:40.28 | pupnik | they seem to run hot |
| 07:41.03 | AD-N770 | lolloo: stream or consume the stream in the device? |
| 07:41.16 | lolloo | what does N900 do? it seems it doesnt do anything |
| 07:41.23 | lolloo | i cant run this |
| 07:41.24 | lolloo | mms://66.172.3.142/3 |
| 07:41.32 | lolloo | its live stream |
| 07:42.17 | AD-N770 | lollo you can try gst-launch-0.10 -v playbin2 uri=mms://66.172.3.142/3 in a terminal |
| 07:42.37 | pupnik | mplayer plays it too |
| 07:42.47 | *** join/#maemo lolcat (~user@77.17.24.220.tmi.telenormobil.no) |
| 07:42.54 | lolloo | mplayer doesnt play it |
| 07:42.56 | pupnik | that's cool looking text |
| 07:42.59 | lolloo | it just stops |
| 07:43.07 | pupnik | oh it does on my desktop |
| 07:43.08 | *** join/#maemo lolcat (~user@77.17.24.220.tmi.telenormobil.no) |
| 07:43.15 | lolloo | yeah |
| 07:43.28 | *** join/#maemo Lori (~lori@cl-115.lis-01.pt.sixxs.net) |
| 07:43.42 | *** join/#maemo lolcat (~user@unaffiliated/energy-/x-7653247) |
| 07:43.47 | pupnik | he sounds like he's explaining something |
| 07:43.53 | lolloo | gst-launch not found |
| 07:43.59 | lolloo | yes he is |
| 07:44.08 | lolloo | he si political dude |
| 07:44.10 | lolloo | is* |
| 07:44.21 | lolloo | hehe |
| 07:44.32 | pupnik | oh there's a gstreamer utilities package |
| 07:44.57 | lolloo | really? you think it will work? |
| 07:45.04 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 07:45.05 | lolloo | gst-launch not found |
| 07:45.21 | pupnik | yes you need to install something for gst-launch iirc |
| 07:45.25 | AD-N770 | you need gstreamer0.10-tools or something like this |
| 07:45.40 | AD-N770 | it will install the gstreamer tool set |
| 07:45.51 | lolloo | alright, I will google it. or is it in repo? |
| 07:46.02 | AD-N770 | should be in the repo |
| 07:46.10 | lolloo | awesome |
| 07:46.14 | lolloo | will check it now |
| 07:46.24 | AD-N770 | at least was like this in the past |
| 07:46.37 | lolloo | are you still watching pupnik ? |
| 07:46.39 | lolloo | hehe |
| 07:46.42 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:47.03 | pupnik | no i can't understand it |
| 07:47.16 | lolloo | thats kind of rebel movement |
| 07:47.34 | lolloo | against conservative gvnmnts |
| 07:47.53 | lolloo | my gvmnt. |
| 07:48.41 | lolloo | found gst-zbar |
| 07:48.45 | lolloo | is it right? |
| 07:49.11 | lolloo | no doesnt sound right |
| 07:50.06 | AD-N770 | lolloo: no, this is for code bars recognition I think |
| 07:50.25 | lolloo | yeah, can't find gst tools. |
| 07:50.55 | AD-N770 | maybe you have to enable maemo-extras or something like that |
| 07:51.18 | lolloo | yeah ofcourse. |
| 07:51.35 | AD-N770 | or the repo corresponding to the sdk |
| 07:51.59 | lolloo | yeah maybe. |
| 07:54.49 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 07:54.57 | lolloo | apt-get install gstreamer-tools |
| 07:55.42 | lolloo | ok I ran the command. |
| 07:55.45 | lolloo | than what? |
| 07:55.58 | AD-N770 | is it working? |
| 07:56.02 | AD-N770 | error messages? |
| 07:56.32 | lolloo | Could not receive message. (System error: Connection refused) |
| 07:56.45 | lolloo | ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to preroll. |
| 07:57.35 | AD-N770 | then, probably there's an issue with the nokiammssrc element |
| 07:57.57 | lolloo | omg! |
| 07:58.52 | AD-N770 | lolloo are you running the server? |
| 07:59.04 | lolloo | AD-N770, no. |
| 07:59.22 | lolloo | it's working fine on VLC desktop pc. |
| 07:59.41 | AD-N770 | also on my desktop with gstreamer |
| 07:59.43 | pupnik | maybe MohammadAG can include mms support in his new client |
| 08:00.10 | AD-N770 | but I'm using the fluendo gstreamer elements |
| 08:00.35 | lolloo | pupnik, what client ? |
| 08:00.41 | RST38h | Moo all |
| 08:00.47 | lolloo | Moo |
| 08:00.48 | pupnik | hiya |
| 08:00.53 | lolloo | hehe |
| 08:01.10 | pupnik | he's redoing the media player |
| 08:01.36 | lolloo | alright. can some give tip about it when he is online? |
| 08:01.48 | lolloo | or anyone sees him. |
| 08:01.55 | lolloo | thanks. |
| 08:01.57 | pupnik | sure |
| 08:02.04 | lolloo | awesome. |
| 08:03.35 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
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| 08:26.26 | tzafrir_laptop | switched back from N900 to backup phone after the N900 didn't finish an emergency charge that was for the most part of a 17 hours flight |
| 08:26.56 | tzafrir_laptop | If this is by design, this is a design I can't live with |
| 08:27.22 | tzafrir_laptop | I've had a brick for a phone for a large part of my trip |
| 08:28.38 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 08:32.43 | *** join/#maemo oscillik (~oscillik@cpc1-runc5-2-0-cust188.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
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| 08:34.58 | *** join/#maemo hyper_noob (~Administr@188-221-72-201.zone12.bethere.co.uk) |
| 08:35.01 | hyper_noob | yo |
| 08:35.59 | hyper_noob | can anyone tell me where the device manager on my n900 is? I want to update the firmware... |
| 08:36.37 | oscillik | app manager |
| 08:36.54 | oscillik | but if you want the very latest version of the firmware, you'll have to flash it yourself manually |
| 08:38.43 | hyper_noob | thats the thing, I dont know what version of the firmmware i have |
| 08:38.54 | hyper_noob | i enter *#0000# and get |
| 08:39.28 | hyper_noob | 3.2010.02-8.203.1 |
| 08:39.38 | lolloo | mmm |
| 08:39.43 | lolloo | is this old guys? |
| 08:39.52 | lolloo | it looks like PR1 |
| 08:39.57 | oscillik | yes that's old, that's PR1.1 |
| 08:40.08 | hyper_noob | possibly, this phone has been moth balled |
| 08:40.17 | lolloo | hehe |
| 08:40.27 | lolloo | PR 1.3 is out |
| 08:40.34 | lolloo | flashing is easy |
| 08:40.41 | hyper_noob | is there a wiki page that will tell me how to update to the latest+graetest? |
| 08:40.45 | lolloo | yep |
| 08:40.53 | lolloo | google is your friend |
| 08:41.05 | oscillik | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#N900_2 |
| 08:41.15 | hyper_noob | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#N900_2 |
| 08:41.18 | hyper_noob | oops |
| 08:41.21 | lolloo | hehe |
| 08:41.21 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 08:41.30 | lolloo | nice find all of you. |
| 08:41.42 | lolloo | happy new year. |
| 08:41.54 | hyper_noob | will nokia software updater wor? |
| 08:42.04 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@149.80-203-123.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:42.53 | hyper_noob | just got my n900 like 15 minutes ago |
| 08:43.01 | oscillik | i believe it works with the very latest version, although i've not tried it myself |
| 08:43.10 | oscillik | i haven't used my N900 for about 5 months |
| 08:43.23 | lolloo | wow what r u using now? |
| 08:43.24 | oscillik | i wish i had never bought it |
| 08:43.27 | lolloo | hehe |
| 08:43.31 | oscillik | Google Nexus S |
| 08:43.40 | hyper_noob | why? |
| 08:43.42 | oscillik | i bought the N900 when it was brand new |
| 08:43.46 | lolloo | am using it now and chatting with you on xchat. |
| 08:43.47 | oscillik | because it's much better |
| 08:44.08 | hyper_noob | can you recompile the kernel? |
| 08:44.11 | lolloo | how G Nexus? |
| 08:44.17 | lolloo | is it good? |
| 08:44.42 | hyper_noob | does it have iso9660 support? |
| 08:44.46 | lolloo | what version of Android is it using? |
| 08:44.55 | oscillik | 2.3.1 |
| 08:45.06 | lolloo | wow Gingerbread? |
| 08:45.21 | oscillik | yes |
| 08:45.26 | lolloo | wow awesome. |
| 08:45.30 | oscillik | stock gingerbread |
| 08:45.37 | lolloo | me thinking of one. |
| 08:45.52 | lolloo | congrats man. |
| 08:45.54 | hyper_noob | oops 'scuse me chaps |
| 08:47.03 | oscillik | yeah, i was using a Google Nexus One before that |
| 08:47.11 | oscillik | hence why i haven't touched the N900 for 5 months |
| 08:47.57 | oscillik | instead of buying the N900 in Decmber 2009 i should've waited for the Nexus One a couple of months later |
| 08:47.58 | RobbieThe1st | Hm... I'll give you $20 for it! <_< >_> :P |
| 08:48.23 | pupnik | viva le difference |
| 08:48.27 | oscillik | lol for the N900? haha |
| 08:48.29 | lolloo | hehe |
| 08:48.39 | trx | lol |
| 08:48.48 | RobbieThe1st | I wish. |
| 08:48.57 | pupnik | android is for people who like to be the catcher in prison rape |
| 08:49.03 | pupnik | just like microsoft users |
| 08:49.10 | pupnik | :) |
| 08:49.14 | Jaffa | pupnik: err, tone please |
| 08:49.14 | lolloo | true |
| 08:49.18 | kerio | nah, android is iOS for poor people |
| 08:49.30 | lolloo | hehe |
| 08:49.35 | kerio | and hipsters |
| 08:49.44 | kerio | don't forget the hipsters |
| 08:49.50 | trx | haha |
| 08:49.57 | oscillik | Android is for people who want an email client that works fast |
| 08:50.03 | lolloo | N900 is for guys who get high. |
| 08:50.08 | oscillik | unlike the piece of shit in Maemo5 |
| 08:50.17 | lolloo | hehe |
| 08:50.18 | trx | high |
| 08:50.19 | oscillik | which slows to a crawl after a week of use |
| 08:50.28 | lolloo | trx, pass it |
| 08:50.33 | RobbieThe1st | Maemo's for the nerds who want a nice computer in a tiny package |
| 08:50.36 | RobbieThe1st | Like me |
| 08:50.53 | trx | i smoked 7 hours ago |
| 08:50.58 | *** join/#maemo Administ1ator (~Administr@188-221-72-201.zone12.bethere.co.uk) |
| 08:51.01 | lolloo | omg I envy you. |
| 08:51.05 | trx | passed out, hit my head on something :/ |
| 08:51.07 | pupnik | Jaffa: have you tried android yet? |
| 08:51.09 | lolloo | hehehe |
| 08:51.14 | oscillik | i'm still keeping hold of the N900 because it serves a purpose as a standalone Skype and SIP phone, but at a cost of £500, it was an expensive purchase that could've been avoided |
| 08:51.30 | trx | opened op a peace of skin above my eye :" |
| 08:51.31 | RobbieThe1st | Ouch. I only paid $300US for mine... |
| 08:51.32 | oscillik | it is certainly not something i can use as an everyday phone anymore |
| 08:51.42 | lolloo | trx, ouch. |
| 08:51.46 | lolloo | bad high. |
| 08:51.48 | trx | yeah :/ |
| 08:51.51 | oscillik | yeah i bought it when it was first released, and it was £500 upon release in December 2009 |
| 08:51.55 | hyper_noob | why cant you use it as a phone? |
| 08:51.59 | *** join/#maemo bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 08:52.10 | kerio | i'd use pine |
| 08:52.11 | lolloo | guys i'll be back, brb for 30 min. |
| 08:52.22 | hyper_noob | what poine, the mail client? |
| 08:52.34 | oscillik | 1. very poor functionality as a phone 2. email client is a piece of shit 3. graphics tearing on the screen when used in portrait mode (WTF?!!) |
| 08:52.37 | hyper_noob | yes THAT pine! |
| 08:53.00 | RobbieThe1st | That's what webmail's for |
| 08:53.14 | hyper_noob | I am a little worried about the mail client |
| 08:53.35 | hyper_noob | was hoping there would be reasonable mail solution |
| 08:53.36 | oscillik | RobbieThe1st, i need push email on my phone so that is a useless 'solution' |
| 08:53.45 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~rm_you@c-76-28-206-239.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 08:54.35 | hyper_noob | rob, is your name robbie the 1st or a sublty play on robbie the thiest? |
| 08:54.54 | RobbieThe1st | The first; I got the nickname when I had a 12-char limit |
| 08:55.02 | hyper_noob | ^subtle? |
| 08:55.25 | RobbieThe1st | But you aren't the first to have seen that alternate interpretation |
| 08:56.40 | hyper_noob | are you a thiest? |
| 08:56.45 | pupnik | RobbieThe1st: < RobbieThe1st> Maemo's for the nerds who want a nice computer in a tiny package |
| 08:56.49 | pupnik | good summary |
| 08:57.17 | RobbieThe1st | Thanks |
| 08:57.59 | hyper_noob | that is EXACTLY what i want! shareware limerix in my pocket! |
| 08:58.55 | RobbieThe1st | I have to say... reduce transition time, OC it(and reduce polling time to 100ms)... it feels as responsive as a full on laptop |
| 08:59.33 | oscillik | the one thing i can praise the N900 on is the fact that the hardware is definitely decent, and if it were able to use USB OTG from factory (without mods) i would highly consider getting rid of my netbook |
| 08:59.59 | hyper_noob | what is OTG? |
| 09:00.02 | pupnik | people who expected best-of-class apps from nokia in every category were bound to be disappointed |
| 09:01.12 | oscillik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_on_the_go |
| 09:01.54 | kerio | nokia does good-ish hardware |
| 09:02.03 | hyper_noob | w00t, FW v20! |
| 09:02.12 | kerio | why don't we have full specs of everything yet? :( |
| 09:02.17 | hyper_noob | does that mean I now have PR1.3? |
| 09:03.19 | hyper_noob | and where is the package manager? |
| 09:04.23 | hyper_noob | anyone? |
| 09:04.32 | oscillik | App Manager |
| 09:05.53 | hyper_noob | is this just a frontend for dpkg? |
| 09:06.08 | oscillik | it is the package manager on Maemo |
| 09:07.17 | ieatlint | more like an frontend for apt |
| 09:12.59 | *** join/#maemo skyloid (~skyloid@24-226-182-75.tr.cgocable.ca) |
| 09:13.05 | *** join/#maemo skyloid (~skyloid@24-226-182-75.tr.cgocable.ca) |
| 09:14.02 | *** join/#maemo lolcat_ (~user@ti0069a380-dhcp0099.bb.online.no) |
| 09:14.09 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 09:16.53 | Jaffa | pupnik: Yes, not sure about it yet. Thought about having a longer go with NITDroid |
| 09:17.38 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 09:19.24 | hyper_noob | does nitdroid let you use the phone as a um...phone? |
| 09:19.31 | oscillik | nope |
| 09:19.35 | oscillik | phone isn't working |
| 09:19.50 | hyper_noob | is there no OS driver for the GSM chip? |
| 09:20.05 | *** join/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@188-195-163-37-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 09:20.09 | oscillik | i don't know, all i know is that using it as a phone is not possible |
| 09:20.13 | oscillik | not at the moment anyways |
| 09:20.22 | hyper_noob | lame |
| 09:21.09 | oscillik | give it time and maybe it'll be working |
| 09:22.01 | oscillik | but it's pretty cool that it even works on there at all |
| 09:22.49 | hyper_noob | omg apt-get on my phone, this is the most balla shizle i have seen |
| 09:23.41 | oscillik | sudo apt-get install nano |
| 09:23.50 | hyper_noob | f*** |
| 09:23.55 | hyper_noob | I WANT VIM |
| 09:24.06 | oscillik | lol |
| 09:24.16 | vim | and nethack |
| 09:24.30 | oscillik | you can definitely get that for it, i've seen it in the repos |
| 09:24.47 | Guest19251 | and mplaya@ |
| 09:25.28 | vim____ | ok ap manager sucks balls |
| 09:25.42 | vim____ | can i use aptitude?? |
| 09:25.49 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 09:26.21 | vim____ | can I get a full on zsh shell instead of this busybox horses? |
| 09:27.54 | oscillik | not sure about zsh, maybe |
| 09:27.56 | pupnik | vim____: try fapman |
| 09:27.58 | oscillik | i know you can get full on bash |
| 09:29.20 | vim____ | tiny c compiler!! This is soo badass i think i am gonna jiz a little |
| 09:30.31 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p54946F62.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:30.42 | oscillik | not on the N900 |
| 09:30.51 | oscillik | the keys will go flush with the casing |
| 09:33.38 | vim____ | I am so excited I am going to eat some fish |
| 09:33.50 | trx | :) |
| 09:36.59 | ieatlint | i think meego is the only other "functioning" os for the n900 with telephony support |
| 09:38.11 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 09:38.20 | trumee | oscillik, how has your experience been with sip on N900? |
| 09:38.50 | oscillik | sip has been pretty alright actually. i've not used it to make outgoing calls (because i can't afford putting credit on it) but incoming is fine, even over 3G |
| 09:39.01 | oscillik | EDGE is a bit dodgy though |
| 09:39.38 | trumee | oscillik, have you tried it on wifi? |
| 09:39.56 | ieatlint | i've used sip for outgoing on wifi, works well in my experience |
| 09:40.01 | oscillik | yeah, it's flaweless on wifi |
| 09:40.24 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 09:40.35 | oscillik | i'm using it essentially as a landline at the moment, my SIP provider gives me an 0151 number and i use the N900 hooked up by WiFi for Skype and SIP |
| 09:40.36 | trumee | hmm, my N900 stinks in wifi. Sips calls are quite choppy |
| 09:40.44 | *** join/#maemo Svavel (~max@bullerovre99.bitnet.nu) |
| 09:41.13 | oscillik | probably your router is playing a part in that, or other structural or frequency interference |
| 09:41.14 | trumee | oscillik, ieatlint, any idea whether you are using asterisk or freeswitch? |
| 09:41.29 | oscillik | trumee, i'm just using sipgate.co.uk |
| 09:41.37 | ieatlint | sip upstream... dunno what they're running it over |
| 09:42.11 | trumee | oscillik, ieatlint, i am running my own * server and N900 is rubbish with that. |
| 09:42.14 | vim____ | it's all about the green on black xterm, yeah bitches |
| 09:42.17 | ieatlint | i only use it when i need to make a call where there's no phone service but i have wifi |
| 09:42.28 | ieatlint | has worked well for my purposes |
| 09:42.59 | trumee | oscillik, i have incoming with voiptalk.org but dont use it very much. |
| 09:43.31 | trumee | ieatlint, what service provider are you with? |
| 09:43.57 | oscillik | a friend of mine is using his own asterisk server for his Nexus One SIP calls, and he's been having good results i think |
| 09:44.00 | ieatlint | a local dsl company that also offers sip-based phone service |
| 09:44.44 | trumee | oscillik, android based devices do better sip because some devs of freeswitch use droid themselves |
| 09:45.58 | trumee | oscillik, however N900 doesnt work with Freeswitch out of the box (hint. try calling to the voicemail) |
| 09:46.25 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~lolloo@2.89.56.141) |
| 09:47.03 | oscillik | what's freeswitch/ |
| 09:47.09 | oscillik | another SIP provider? |
| 09:47.23 | trumee | oscillik, no, another sip software. |
| 09:47.30 | flux | a fork of asterisk I believe? |
| 09:47.30 | oscillik | ahh |
| 09:48.11 | trumee | This is sample call to voicemail with Freeswitch, http://174.132.148.146/ivr.wav |
| 09:49.19 | trumee | The digit prompts are all lost by N900. |
| 09:49.49 | oscillik | lol |
| 09:50.10 | oscillik | does like the pulseaudio call recording feature |
| 09:50.58 | trumee | oscillik, you have a nexus one? |
| 09:51.32 | oscillik | i had a Nexus One |
| 09:51.33 | trumee | hates pulseaudio. |
| 09:51.35 | oscillik | i now have Nexus S |
| 09:52.07 | trumee | oscillik, does it have a sip client? |
| 09:52.35 | oscillik | yes, Android 2.3 Gingerbread comes with SIP functionality built into the OS |
| 09:53.29 | trumee | i will probably move over to android in the future for good sip support. |
| 09:53.56 | ieatlint | after playing with my gf's nexus s, i have to say that nokia better woo me in the near future, because as much as i love huge aspects of maemo (that will be present in meego), there are just too many things that are lacking |
| 09:54.05 | oscillik | i had an ADP1 (Android Dev Phone 1 - the developer version of the T-Mobile G1) and that got me hooked on Android |
| 09:54.31 | vim____ | SIP comes in most e-series symbian devvices... |
| 09:54.32 | oscillik | i'm very happy with my Nexus S so far |
| 09:54.42 | oscillik | lol e-series symbian |
| 09:54.50 | Termana | stabs himself because of Android |
| 09:55.01 | trumee | vim____, yes, sip works perfect on my Nokia N95 |
| 09:55.02 | ieatlint | yeah, i had a couple adp1s... they were decent things |
| 09:55.06 | oscillik | running S60 3rd Edition |
| 09:55.18 | ieatlint | connectbot is still the best mobile ssh interface i have seen by far |
| 09:55.28 | ieatlint | worked *perfectly* with irssi |
| 09:56.27 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 09:56.39 | trumee | does android have openvpn/pptp client? |
| 09:56.40 | lardman | morning |
| 09:56.41 | vim____ | right, how do I OC this mutha? |
| 09:56.43 | ieatlint | still, when i switched to the n900 from android, the only things i really missed were google maps and the google sync |
| 09:57.05 | oscillik | Termana, don't stab yourself because of Android, stab yourself because Nokia dropped support for a phone before they even shipped it |
| 09:57.05 | oscillik | ;) |
| 09:57.16 | vim____ | oh and, THE OMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED TOOLCHAIN |
| 09:57.27 | lardman | any OpenGL (ES) gurus about? |
| 09:57.52 | ieatlint | now i look at froyo (or later) and see reliable mobile hotspot, awesome google voice support, an even better google maps (because holy shit the new release is AWESOME), and a lot of interesting 3rd party apps |
| 09:58.10 | oscillik | ieatlint, i missed an email client that worked, google maps, and no graphics tearing in portrait |
| 09:58.17 | vim____ | yeah, but can i play nethack? |
| 09:58.30 | ieatlint | like a fucking heart rate monitor that uses the camera... totally a gimmick app, but still pretty cool |
| 09:58.33 | trumee | ieatlint, can it do offline turn by turn? |
| 09:58.43 | oscillik | yes it can |
| 09:58.46 | ieatlint | trumee: yes |
| 09:58.59 | trumee | nice. |
| 09:59.23 | ieatlint | latest google maps release in december added it, and switched it all to vector-based maps for offline caching and offline route recalculation |
| 09:59.30 | trumee | loves everything about N900 except rubbish SIP support |
| 09:59.43 | oscillik | ieatlint, actually google navigation had it before december |
| 09:59.53 | oscillik | it's just that google maps got offline capability too in december |
| 10:00.08 | ieatlint | ok |
| 10:00.29 | trumee | and lack of SYNCML support |
| 10:00.36 | ieatlint | i still wouldn't do the nexus s myself... i need the hardware keyboard, but the g2 looks decent, and has a full 768mb of ram... |
| 10:01.14 | oscillik | see, that's the reason i went for the N900 back in Decmber 09 |
| 10:01.17 | oscillik | because of the keyboard |
| 10:01.38 | oscillik | but after using the Nexus One (and now the even better keyboard on the Nexus S), i'm not too bothered by lack of physical keyboard |
| 10:02.05 | ieatlint | i am... i tried using a nokia n8 for a couple weeks... and ugh |
| 10:02.12 | lardman | hmm, don't think I could put up with losing the screen space really |
| 10:02.15 | trumee | oscillik, oh really. i always thought software keyboards dont work well. |
| 10:02.21 | oscillik | lol that's because nokia touchscreen keyboards are wank |
| 10:02.25 | ieatlint | forget terminal, just typing was annoying, and that was with swype added on even |
| 10:02.48 | *** join/#maemo me|kor (~melkor@91-66-109-228-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 10:03.03 | ieatlint | i've used the current android keyboard... it was less impressive than swype in my opinion |
| 10:03.15 | ieatlint | but swype is available for android, heh |
| 10:03.17 | oscillik | ieatlint, the gingerbread keyboard? |
| 10:03.22 | ieatlint | yeah |
| 10:04.22 | ieatlint | back in early december i played with a friend's nexus s, and my gf got one last week... not impressed, but as i'm generally not impressed by on-screen keyboards, that's not the biggest insult |
| 10:05.15 | ieatlint | tactile feedback (including touch-typing), screen real estate, and ability to do non-dictionary words and special symbols is paramount to usability for me |
| 10:05.25 | ieatlint | and an on-screen keyboard can't really compete |
| 10:06.48 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 10:07.53 | oscillik | well of course it's personal preference |
| 10:08.06 | oscillik | it's why i like Phil Collins and Huey Lewis And The News |
| 10:08.08 | oscillik | ;) |
| 10:09.07 | ieatlint | :P |
| 10:09.07 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 10:09.46 | oscillik | has to return some videotapes |
| 10:10.15 | *** join/#maemo khertan_ (~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-138-84.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:10.19 | ieatlint | with the n9 announcement still likely many months away... we'll see if the n900 can maintain my interest long enough :( |
| 10:10.29 | khertan_ | Morning |
| 10:10.52 | khertan_ | n9 annoucement ? |
| 10:11.09 | ieatlint | yeah, when nokia finally decides to make shit official |
| 10:11.40 | ieatlint | if i had to guess, at the next meego conference, heh |
| 10:12.00 | oscillik | lol i gotta say, after the debacle over the N900 and the prompt announcement 5 months after release that they were gonna drop Maemo for Meego, i'm never buying a Nokia device again |
| 10:12.28 | *** join/#maemo tilppis (~tilppis@85-156-71-120.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 10:12.48 | khertan_ | ieatlint, i think the next meego conf will be were nokia announce their n9 |
| 10:12.57 | khertan_ | s/were/where |
| 10:13.01 | oscillik | lol i think the next meego conference they will delay again |
| 10:13.06 | khertan_ | but ... do not expect too much of meego :) |
| 10:13.26 | vim____ | is there an alternative terminal emulator? |
| 10:13.27 | ieatlint | i have a decent idea what meego will be :P |
| 10:13.33 | ieatlint | i'm more interested in the hardware refresh |
| 10:13.51 | khertan_ | you are lucky ... as to be honest i didn't know what meego will be |
| 10:14.01 | khertan_ | something locked by manufacturer |
| 10:14.04 | Arkenoi | unfortunately there will never be keyboard like e90 anymore. even n810 or better is unlikely to happen. |
| 10:14.08 | khertan_ | or something open |
| 10:14.11 | khertan_ | don't know |
| 10:14.18 | ieatlint | i don't know how far it will go, but i have an idea of what it will be as released |
| 10:14.58 | khertan_ | I ll like a refresh of a n810 with more powerfull cpu + more battery |
| 10:14.59 | khertan_ | :) |
| 10:15.10 | ieatlint | + more ram :P |
| 10:15.17 | khertan_ | yep + more ram |
| 10:15.17 | khertan_ | :) |
| 10:15.25 | Arkenoi | i'd like n900 in n810 form factor |
| 10:15.25 | khertan_ | n900 as too few ram too |
| 10:15.35 | khertan_ | same ... but with more ram |
| 10:15.35 | khertan_ | :) |
| 10:15.35 | Arkenoi | (and with more ram) |
| 10:15.54 | khertan_ | and bigger battery |
| 10:15.55 | khertan_ | :) |
| 10:16.08 | khertan_ | i already drain my n900 battery in 2 hours |
| 10:16.17 | ieatlint | i'm still shocked that phones seem to have hit this 512mb barrier |
| 10:16.29 | khertan_ | so i didn't imagin what will be with larger screen :) |
| 10:16.30 | oscillik | Arkenoi, Psion Series 5 keyboard > E90 keyboard ;) |
| 10:16.30 | ieatlint | only phone i've seen go over 512mb is the g2... |
| 10:16.37 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 10:16.43 | vim____ | how much friggin ram do you want? |
| 10:16.47 | vim____ | and why? |
| 10:16.57 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 10:16.57 | khertan_ | ieatlint, specially when i ve got 16Gb on my desktop |
| 10:17.01 | khertan_ | vim____, 2Go |
| 10:17.08 | khertan_ | vim____, 2Gb will be good for me |
| 10:17.10 | vim____ | wtf? o0 |
| 10:17.11 | ieatlint | vim____: because shit takes ram |
| 10:17.19 | ieatlint | you have any idea how much a browser for instance uses? |
| 10:17.21 | khertan_ | vim____, because i compile onboard |
| 10:17.29 | vim____ | lol, ok |
| 10:17.35 | ieatlint | end up swapping, and shit gets slow |
| 10:17.36 | Arkenoi | oscillik, yep. well. Tor could be the best balanced: biggest one that still fits in any pocket |
| 10:17.41 | vim____ | it is aa pocket computer cellphone... |
| 10:17.46 | kerio | btw, the ps3 was completely broken |
| 10:17.52 | vim____ | not a mainframe |
| 10:17.52 | oscillik | Tor? |
| 10:17.57 | Arkenoi | psion 5 was a bit too large |
| 10:18.18 | Arkenoi | yep, tor. that motorola-psion combo that was never released |
| 10:18.23 | khertan_ | vim____, you know every small pc come with 8Gb of ram now |
| 10:18.26 | khertan_ | :) |
| 10:18.31 | Arkenoi | thor, actually |
| 10:18.38 | Arkenoi | i misnamed it |
| 10:18.38 | khertan_ | so why not 2Gb in a "pocket" pc |
| 10:18.49 | kerio | i want at least 1gb |
| 10:18.58 | kerio | 256mb is... really not enough |
| 10:19.05 | oscillik | Arkenoi, do you have a link for that? i'm interested in seeing that |
| 10:19.07 | ieatlint | and even the nexus s is still sitting on 512mb |
| 10:19.07 | khertan_ | clearly ... swap everytime |
| 10:19.12 | Arkenoi | http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/thor.jpg this one, late 90's i think |
| 10:19.13 | trumee | gmail in a browser is unusable on N900. |
| 10:19.13 | ieatlint | i just don't get that |
| 10:19.21 | oscillik | woah |
| 10:19.23 | Arkenoi | some prototypes were sold on ebay |
| 10:19.35 | oscillik | wants |
| 10:20.03 | vim____ | is eating sushhi for breakfast |
| 10:20.11 | oscillik | although, i would imagine that the keyboard for that would be heavily based on the Revo keyboard, and that wasn't very great to use |
| 10:20.30 | oscillik | the Series 5 keyboard was about the smallest i could handle comfortably for touch typing |
| 10:20.40 | khertan_ | do not try to use more than 2Gb of swap in your n900 ... will result in sudden reboot |
| 10:21.26 | oscillik | i'm gonna be putting my Series 5mxPRO on ebay soon |
| 10:21.27 | oscillik | :( |
| 10:22.09 | lardman | imagines a Psion series 5 with updated insides and screen |
| 10:22.11 | oscillik | even considering selling my netBook too |
| 10:22.34 | vim____ | what about a jornada 680 running linux? |
| 10:22.36 | Arkenoi | that thingie had bluetooth and grps, unlike 9210 that appeared on the scene later |
| 10:23.07 | oscillik | Arkenoi, i remember seeing a Revo prototype sell on eBay within the last year, and it had bluetooth |
| 10:23.13 | Arkenoi | but some marketing idiots decided to cancel it despite it was almost ready and prototypes were almost working |
| 10:23.20 | oscillik | Psion had their fingers in a lot of tech pies |
| 10:24.02 | Arkenoi | people who had hands on it reported heavy bluetooth battery drain and some other issues common for early bt devices, but almost everything else was functional |
| 10:24.40 | oscillik | i kinda miss my Nokia 9500 Communicator - it was the closest thing to an updated Series 5mx |
| 10:25.17 | Arkenoi | oscillik, web browser was damn slow :-( |
| 10:25.25 | Arkenoi | and crashed |
| 10:25.26 | oscillik | yes it was, painfully |
| 10:25.50 | oscillik | and those front-facing keys on the keypad |
| 10:25.54 | oscillik | facepalms Nokia |
| 10:26.20 | Arkenoi | i missed keyboard shortcuts much when i switched to e90 from 9500 |
| 10:26.59 | oscillik | yeah same here |
| 10:28.04 | Arkenoi | actually there was no reason not to provide the same shortcuts in s60 software, as there are plenty of models with qwerty keyboard |
| 10:28.13 | Arkenoi | just nobody cared to |
| 10:28.30 | vim____ | s60, so much potential |
| 10:28.33 | vim____ | squandered |
| 10:28.42 | oscillik | S60 - So much potential, so much fail |
| 10:29.01 | vim____ | blah blah blah, certificates, blah blah blah, broken proprietory sdk |
| 10:29.07 | vim____ | smoke my balls nokia |
| 10:29.11 | oscillik | using Opera Mini |
| 10:29.14 | Arkenoi | haha |
| 10:29.18 | oscillik | are you SURE you want to connect to the internet? |
| 10:29.20 | oscillik | are you sure? |
| 10:29.24 | oscillik | every time you open it |
| 10:29.26 | oscillik | fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 10:29.33 | *** join/#maemo Guest75056 (~ns-team@212.200.199.30) |
| 10:29.59 | Arkenoi | i downloaded sdk and was quite impressed that "hello world" app consisted of 10,000+ lines of code |
| 10:30.22 | flux | arkenoi, hm?-) |
| 10:30.29 | oscillik | omg |
| 10:30.34 | oscillik | lol |
| 10:30.44 | Arkenoi | flux, i ran wc -l on examples/hello , that is |
| 10:30.57 | flux | arkenoi, before or after compiling? there could be some intermediate generated files.. |
| 10:31.01 | Arkenoi | before! |
| 10:31.34 | vim____ | s60 development sucked balls |
| 10:31.38 | oscillik | i'm not a programmer, and i know that's a big lol |
| 10:31.43 | Arkenoi | then i downloaded PIPS to see if i can port some familliar unix things there |
| 10:31.55 | vim____ | good luck with that |
| 10:32.07 | Arkenoi | only to find out that e90 had completely broken console/stdio emulation |
| 10:32.26 | vim____ | making it COMPLETELY FUCKING WORTHLESS |
| 10:32.31 | Arkenoi | the keyboard layout was hardcoded, not related to system one anyhow and plain wrong |
| 10:35.51 | vim____ | I know arkenoi, just let it out. |
| 10:36.02 | vim____ | were friends here and understand your trauma |
| 10:36.24 | Psi | im so glad you can edit the n900 keyboard layout |
| 10:36.32 | vim____ | symbian was hhard for everyone |
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| 10:53.43 | BCMM | is there a map program other than geeps that can use google local search? |
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| 12:42.15 | BluesLee | hi |
| 12:42.36 | BluesLee | i want to compile some modules for the power kernel |
| 12:42.54 | BluesLee | i installed scratchbox so far |
| 12:43.12 | BluesLee | whats next? |
| 12:44.06 | jacekowski | read the wiki |
| 12:44.10 | jacekowski | it's all in there |
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| 12:44.24 | BluesLee | jacekowski: which wiki? |
| 12:44.59 | jacekowski | maemo wiki |
| 12:45.19 | BluesLee | ttp://psfreedom.com/wiki/Nokia_N900#Compile_using_kernel-power_.28titan.27s.29_maemo_kernel |
| 12:45.56 | jacekowski | maemo not psfreedom |
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| 12:49.17 | BluesLee | jacekowski: there are too many wiki pages out there |
| 12:50.05 | jacekowski | read them all |
| 12:50.25 | BluesLee | jacekowski: you are a bot, right?;-) |
| 12:50.56 | jacekowski | no |
| 12:50.59 | *** join/#maemo wizL (~wizl@ahrinia.net) |
| 12:51.02 | jacekowski | i'm just unfriendly |
| 12:51.17 | jacekowski | especialy to people that can't be bothered to do something themselves |
| 12:51.25 | jacekowski | and expect ready solution |
| 12:51.49 | BluesLee | jacekowski: hey ... |
| 12:52.55 | BluesLee | jacekowski: you are lucky i forgive you |
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| 12:54.27 | jacekowski | http://wiki.maemo.org/Compiling_the_kernel |
| 12:54.29 | jacekowski | here |
| 12:54.39 | jacekowski | 3 keywords in google |
| 12:54.41 | Venemo_N900 | good morning |
| 12:54.43 | jacekowski | and it's 1st result |
| 12:55.11 | lardman | has anyone used Layar? |
| 12:55.55 | BluesLee | jacekowski: i didnt say that i want to compile the kernel did i? |
| 12:56.06 | jacekowski | it's same thing |
| 12:56.28 | BluesLee | okay, you are right |
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| 12:58.34 | juk | Svoloch: sounds fun, even can be a miniserver |
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| 13:38.03 | thomasjfox | just dropped the rockbox bomb (=binary packages) on maemo.org |
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| 14:00.53 | Termana | Happy New Year! |
| 14:01.07 | kerio | wait, where do you live? |
| 14:01.15 | SpeedEvil | .au? |
| 14:01.25 | SpeedEvil | It must be about that there |
| 14:01.27 | kerio | +10... makes sense |
| 14:01.28 | SpeedEvil | west coast? |
| 14:01.33 | SpeedEvil | Or is it east |
| 14:01.35 | SpeedEvil | I forget |
| 14:01.37 | kerio | nah, west coast is -something |
| 14:02.12 | Termana | I'm actually in South Australia, +9:30 |
| 14:02.14 | kerio | it's 2011 in vladivostok |
| 14:02.32 | Termana | It's half past, but I was busy talking in real life :p |
| 14:08.09 | MohammadAG | Happy new year |
| 14:10.41 | alterego | I've got a few hours yet |
| 14:11.43 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:11.47 | MohammadAG | 8 hours here :P |
| 14:11.59 | ieatlint | i've managed to get a cold all week... kinda ruins new year parties :( |
| 14:12.30 | MohammadAG | it's on a friday, worst new year ever :P |
| 14:12.44 | ieatlint | aren't you in .il? |
| 14:12.56 | MohammadAG | Yeah |
| 14:12.57 | alterego | has a shower. |
| 14:13.17 | ieatlint | i may be very wrong, but i thought the work week ended thursday there |
| 14:13.20 | MohammadAG | everyone does alterego |
| 14:13.48 | MohammadAG | well, it's friday -> saturday |
| 14:14.05 | MohammadAG | so most places will be closed at night |
| 14:14.15 | ieatlint | ah, right... enjoy religion :P |
| 14:14.42 | MohammadAG | israelis, not us :P |
| 14:14.46 | Termana | MohammadAG, you mean like everywhere else? I don't think there is a country going from Thursday to Friday is there? Maybe one of the really far minus GMT ones? |
| 14:15.22 | MohammadAG | Termana, you guys don't close cause it's not right to open on saturdays |
| 14:15.54 | RST38h | ...senior American counterterrorism officials say they have altered their criteria so that a single-source tip can lead to a name being placed on the watch list. |
| 14:16.32 | RST38h | And happy upcoming year to you all, my potential terorist suspects! |
| 14:16.37 | Termana | MohammadAG, according to you/your religion, maybe :p |
| 14:16.49 | Termana | RST38h, what did you say your full name was again? |
| 14:16.52 | MohammadAG | I'm not jewish lol |
| 14:17.06 | RST38h | Terman: RST38h. |
| 14:17.31 | Termana | wonders whether they can track RST38h based on his nickname |
| 14:17.35 | Termana | gives it a shot |
| 14:17.37 | Termana | :p |
| 14:17.53 | *** part/#maemo thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@dslb-088-066-091-217.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:18.16 | Termana | RST38h, too bad you enter your full name into your clients settings :p |
| 14:18.39 | MohammadAG | Termana, apt-cache show xchat | grep Maintainer | head -1 |
| 14:18.53 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 14:18.54 | RST38h | Yea, that was obviously a mistake |
| 14:19.16 | Termana | MohammadAG, that's only going to work when I get my new N900 :p |
| 14:19.21 | MohammadAG | RST38h, you're the maintainer of xchat too |
| 14:19.41 | MohammadAG | Termana, maemo.org/packages/view/xchat |
| 14:19.52 | RST38h | Yes, but I do not think it lets you create a link there |
| 14:20.27 | ieatlint | flying in the US is such a mess of bs anyway |
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| 14:22.16 | lardman | s/in/into |
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| 14:22.40 | derf | No, in, also. |
| 14:22.50 | ieatlint | yeah |
| 14:23.28 | lardman | derf: I always found in was ok, just not enough time to run between terminals and needing to pay pesky baggage charges and pay for headphones and pay for tv and pay for alcohol |
| 14:23.41 | lardman | hmm, yeah it is also pretty rubbish flying in ;) |
| 14:23.52 | ieatlint | you complain that you fly into the US and get photographed and fingerprinted.... in order for us to fly within the US, we essentially need a gov issued id card that requires us get photographed, typically fingerprinted, and submit at least as much personal detail |
| 14:23.56 | lardman | but at least there's no 4hr queues |
| 14:24.09 | ieatlint | we just did it before we got to the airport is all |
| 14:24.10 | derf | lardman: The security stuff is just as bad for domestic as it is international. |
| 14:24.17 | lardman | nah I don;t care about security stuff, just the queuing |
| 14:24.22 | derf | All the 9/11 flights were domestic ones, after all. |
| 14:24.29 | derf | lardman: What do you think causes queues? |
| 14:24.46 | lardman | indeed, but there seems to be far less security for internal flights, far fewer checks on baggage and people |
| 14:25.17 | ieatlint | you go through security in at your point of departure |
| 14:25.24 | ieatlint | we just rape you a tad at customs is all |
| 14:25.40 | derf | Or take your electronics. |
| 14:25.43 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:26.01 | lardman | indeed, which is why it's odd that internal flights seemed to be so easy compared with international ones where you'd already been checked on the way out |
| 14:26.25 | jacekowski | ieatlint: not so long ago in poland there was no law regading domestic flights |
| 14:26.33 | jacekowski | ieatlint: and you could fly without any id |
| 14:26.47 | jacekowski | ieatlint: from security point of view |
| 14:26.55 | derf | Anyway, the worst part about flying in the US is you have to use a US airline. |
| 14:27.06 | lardman | lol +1 |
| 14:27.06 | jacekowski | airlines required id to prove that you bought a ticket and stuff |
| 14:27.13 | ieatlint | jacekowski: pre-9/11 here... the rules also stated we could carry knives up to 10cm long on flights prior to 9/11 |
| 14:27.37 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~KMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 14:27.43 | jacekowski | and some people theretised that it could be even possible to skip security |
| 14:27.49 | derf | We'd be a lot safer if everyone carried a 10cm knife on flights. |
| 14:27.53 | jacekowski | on domestic flights |
| 14:27.55 | ieatlint | and a few years before that, airline tickets didn't used to be tied to names... whoever showed up with the paper ticket got on |
| 14:27.56 | jacekowski | but nobody tried that |
| 14:28.32 | lardman | derf: well except for air hostesses anyway (being safer that is) |
| 14:28.49 | jacekowski | i can bet |
| 14:28.52 | jacekowski | give me 10k |
| 14:28.54 | derf | lardman: Give them knives, too. |
| 14:29.01 | derf | And training. |
| 14:29.03 | jacekowski | and i can get you anything onto a plane |
| 14:29.10 | lardman | hmm, can't have an air hostess stab me for asking for headphones |
| 14:29.34 | ieatlint | good times |
| 14:29.52 | ieatlint | thank god i'm white |
| 14:29.53 | derf | ieatlint: Anyway, Bruce Schneier showed how it was still possible to get on a plane with your name on the no-fly list well after 9/11. |
| 14:30.15 | jacekowski | derf: i seen airport security from other side very often |
| 14:30.19 | jacekowski | derf: and how bad is it |
| 14:30.32 | jacekowski | derf: when i was working on the airport as contractor |
| 14:30.42 | derf | Well, his method worked even if everyone was doing their job. |
| 14:30.47 | jacekowski | we could get van full of stuff trough a gate |
| 14:30.56 | jacekowski | including bombs and other terrorist tools |
| 14:30.59 | ieatlint | yeah, i've heard the same stories |
| 14:31.00 | derf | I have no doubt. |
| 14:31.02 | jacekowski | but we couldn't get a bottle of coke |
| 14:31.32 | RST38h | dials the hotline |
| 14:32.03 | jacekowski | somebody else on RAF base ran by americunts |
| 14:32.05 | ieatlint | my favourite was a contractor friend setting up monitoring systems for escalators and moving walkways at ATL. TSA refused their request to pull a network cable to the equipment, insisting it would be insecure |
| 14:32.15 | jacekowski | crossed airstrip without stopping |
| 14:32.17 | jacekowski | even though there was a green light |
| 14:32.21 | ieatlint | instead, they suggested a 3g modem |
| 14:32.22 | jacekowski | but you are supposed to stop before it |
| 14:32.39 | jacekowski | and they started chasing him |
| 14:32.44 | jacekowski | pointed gun at him |
| 14:32.56 | jacekowski | than after couple hours passed him to british police |
| 14:33.33 | RST38h | Ah, ATL, ATL, I still remember the lines to security there |
| 14:34.01 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 14:34.03 | ieatlint | jacekowski: i'll be shocked only if they had their finger over the trigger when they pointed those guns |
| 14:34.16 | RST38h | Pretty impressive, about 3-4 hours standing time too |
| 14:34.48 | lardman | lol, I was travelling through Newark (hell-hole) and had 10min to make my flight, but the TSA people are really not interested |
| 14:35.15 | lardman | eventually I persuaded one to let me go to a short queue, but when I got to the front I was told it was for "dips and crips" only |
| 14:35.19 | jacekowski | thing is |
| 14:35.20 | RST38h | lardman: Thank god you did not have to exit the airport at Newark |
| 14:35.24 | lardman | diplomats and disabled people |
| 14:35.31 | lardman | RST38h: yes quite :) |
| 14:35.33 | jacekowski | how often they catch anybody with bomb or something |
| 14:35.35 | jacekowski | because so far |
| 14:35.40 | jacekowski | they failed every single time |
| 14:35.53 | RST38h | They do not |
| 14:36.08 | jacekowski | so when they caught somebody? |
| 14:36.12 | RST38h | TSA makes annual reports about their catch, but these are not widely circulated |
| 14:36.24 | RST38h | As far as I am aware, they never have |
| 14:36.38 | jacekowski | i'm pretty sure they would be if there will be numbers that are good for keeping all terrorist business running |
| 14:37.06 | jacekowski | i mean people would be much more friendly to them if they would be catching terrorist every day |
| 14:37.11 | jacekowski | but so far they are not |
| 14:37.27 | ieatlint | not to defend the TSA at all, but when was the last time we know of someone boarding a flight they handled security for with a bomb? |
| 14:37.43 | ieatlint | definitely not to defend them though :P |
| 14:37.45 | Termana | I wonder - am I crazy for wanting to become a US citizen? |
| 14:37.49 | jacekowski | Termana: yes |
| 14:37.53 | ieatlint | there have been so many visible breaches it's disgusting |
| 14:37.53 | Termana | Tooo bad I don't really fit into any of the permanent residence immigration categories |
| 14:37.55 | SpeedEvil | Termana: no |
| 14:37.58 | Termana | Too* |
| 14:38.07 | SpeedEvil | Termana: If you have rationally assessed the costs and benefits |
| 14:38.17 | jacekowski | Termana: and you are suicidal a bit |
| 14:38.28 | jacekowski | Termana: because everybody there may kill/shot you |
| 14:38.31 | jacekowski | or stab |
| 14:38.40 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 14:38.42 | ieatlint | we don't stab people, you're thinking of the uk |
| 14:39.03 | Termana | Seems like the only way to reasonably get a green card is to find someone that will employ you there |
| 14:39.07 | RST38h | Here, feed: http://publicintelligence.net/ufouo-tsa-transportation-suspicious-incident-report-tsir-august-2010/ |
| 14:39.44 | jacekowski | Termana: nope |
| 14:40.08 | jacekowski | Termana: you can get work visa that way |
| 14:40.34 | jacekowski | Termana: to get green card you have to go trough green card lottery and you may not get it |
| 14:40.51 | jacekowski | but there is no work requirements for green card |
| 14:41.28 | Termana | jacekowski, the US immigration site lists several categories to get a green card, having a job there and the business sponsoring you is one of them |
| 14:41.29 | RST38h | Full list of TSA reports and other documents here: http://publicintelligence.net/category/documents/united-states-documents/transportation-security-administration-united-states-documents-documents/ |
| 14:41.39 | jacekowski | Termana: nope |
| 14:41.49 | jacekowski | Termana: that's work visa |
| 14:42.05 | RST38h | Termana: It is a bit different than what you think |
| 14:42.10 | jacekowski | and then after many years of working like that you can apply for green card |
| 14:42.16 | RST38h | But, of course, the lottery is not the only way to get a green card |
| 14:42.30 | jacekowski | yeah, family of citizen |
| 14:42.38 | Termana | jacekowski, Green Card Through a Job Offer |
| 14:42.38 | Termana | You may be eligible to become a permanent resident based on an offer of permanent employment in the United States. Most categories require an employer to get a labor certification and then file a Form I-140, Immigrant Petition for Alien Worker, for you. |
| 14:42.39 | jacekowski | or family of somebody who has green card |
| 14:42.45 | RST38h | Not that jacekowski *needed* a green card, given his lowish opinion of "americunts" |
| 14:43.01 | jacekowski | i don't |
| 14:43.06 | jacekowski | as in i don't care |
| 14:43.19 | jacekowski | i used to think it's different |
| 14:43.35 | MohammadAG | americ.... |
| 14:43.36 | MohammadAG | wtf? |
| 14:43.40 | jacekowski | but i went there and it's not like in the movies where it's all nice and they love each other |
| 14:43.55 | ieatlint | http://www.uscis.gov/greencard indeed does say employment is a method of obtaining it |
| 14:43.58 | RST38h | OMG it is NOT like you have seen in movies??? =) |
| 14:44.09 | ieatlint | jacekowski: where'd you go? |
| 14:44.22 | RST38h | ieatlint: Either employment (I140) or marriage (I141) |
| 14:44.35 | Termana | or Refugee or Asylum |
| 14:44.43 | Termana | but I can't claim those really coming from Australia :p |
| 14:44.49 | ieatlint | see, there you go... just go find some desperate woman who will do a sham marriage |
| 14:44.49 | RST38h | Yea, but I am not familiar with the paperwork needed for that |
| 14:44.50 | MohammadAG | or death |
| 14:44.57 | ieatlint | the accent will help |
| 14:45.05 | Termana | Maybe I should just serve in the US Army for a little while |
| 14:45.05 | Termana | :p |
| 14:45.11 | ieatlint | haha |
| 14:45.12 | RST38h | ieatlint: Hey you can marry a guy in some states |
| 14:45.23 | ieatlint | remember, our military is *volunteer only* ... think about that |
| 14:45.24 | MohammadAG | LOL |
| 14:45.41 | RST38h | Yea, military service does not grant you a green card, sorry |
| 14:45.45 | ieatlint | RST38h: only a very small number, and it is only recognised at the state level -- it wouldn't help any federal things like green card apps |
| 14:45.59 | jacekowski | ieatlint: NY, washington, boston, |
| 14:47.01 | *** join/#maemo ptl (~patola@unaffiliated/ptl) |
| 14:47.32 | lardman | hmm, my touchscreen doesn't seem to respond any more |
| 14:47.47 | ieatlint | jacekowski: eh.. can't speak highly of washington, but i guess your experiences sucked in boston and NY... unfortunate, but so is life |
| 14:47.53 | RST38h | lardman: busy swapping? |
| 14:48.06 | lardman | rebooted, still nothing |
| 14:48.12 | SpeedEvil | lardman: noooo! |
| 14:48.15 | lardman | am stuck at the sim card pin screen |
| 14:48.21 | ieatlint | i was honestly expecting answers like dallas or LA, where i could just simply agree they suck |
| 14:48.23 | RST38h | hmmmm |
| 14:48.24 | SpeedEvil | lardman: Have you tried it with another finger, maybe one is broken. |
| 14:48.25 | ieatlint | :P |
| 14:48.31 | lardman | lol |
| 14:49.08 | SpeedEvil | lardman: More seriously - next step would be to tr flashing I guess |
| 14:49.11 | RST38h | lardman: remove battery etc |
| 14:49.21 | SpeedEvil | that too, yes |
| 14:49.32 | lardman | hmm, I was just sat tapping madly on the pix screen and it moved on |
| 14:49.36 | RST38h | lardman: open/close it a few times, in case it is some ribbon |
| 14:49.40 | lardman | does it auto boot if you don't press anything? |
| 14:49.42 | Termana | RST38h, maybe I should become a religious workers qualify under special category of jobs |
| 14:49.46 | RST38h | lardman: no |
| 14:49.48 | jacekowski | ieatlint: i'm not saying it plainly sucks |
| 14:49.54 | Termana | I could live with 5 years of god worshipping to become a US citizen |
| 14:49.55 | Termana | :p |
| 14:50.07 | jacekowski | ieatlint: but all bad things people said about it were mostly true |
| 14:50.21 | lardman | hmm, seems to be doing something now |
| 14:50.25 | SpeedEvil | Termana: I think you have to have a complete knowledge of the works of American Idol these days. |
| 14:50.27 | lardman | but the digitiser is way off |
| 14:50.30 | RST38h | Termana: Openly worship Satan, make your local government prosecute you, apply for asylum |
| 14:50.34 | jacekowski | and things like hotel staff not speaking english |
| 14:50.49 | ieatlint | jacekowski: eh... i've no illusions with my country |
| 14:50.51 | jacekowski | not in front desk |
| 14:51.04 | ieatlint | there's way too much valid criticisms in fact |
| 14:51.07 | jacekowski | but something that never happened to me anywhere else |
| 14:51.09 | RST38h | jacekowski: Tried Polish? |
| 14:51.19 | jacekowski | ah that happened to me as well |
| 14:51.39 | jacekowski | bloke in elevator told me that his mother was polish |
| 14:52.06 | RST38h | "As frustration grows, airports consider ditching TSA" - Washington Post lays another egg |
| 14:52.28 | ieatlint | and yes, a large part of the people here don't speak english well... more when you count those who simply claim they don't |
| 14:52.34 | lardman | re-inserts battery with fingers crossed |
| 14:52.41 | doc|home | RST38h: makes no difference. Chicken's already there |
| 14:53.43 | ieatlint | jacekowski: and in american mannerisms, stating that "my mother is polish" is more likely to mean "my mother is of polish descent" than is actually a polish national |
| 14:54.05 | lardman | hmm, startup screen now with wrong date and time |
| 14:54.10 | lardman | and still touchscreen not working |
| 14:54.18 | jacekowski | and other thing i've noticed, much more people just trying to sell their crap |
| 14:54.25 | jacekowski | i have to go |
| 14:54.28 | lardman | though I did bypass the pin screen by tapping outside the dialog, so perhaps the top right is still working |
| 14:54.49 | RST38h | lardman: Ok. Run somesketching program and see |
| 14:55.11 | RST38h | suspects it is not the touch screen, somehow |
| 14:55.51 | lardman | hmm, anyway to do that without a touchscreen? |
| 14:55.52 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 14:56.03 | RST38h | SSH |
| 14:56.21 | lardman | I can't tap the screen to select the mode though |
| 14:56.29 | SpeedEvil | wifi |
| 14:56.39 | RST38h | it does not autoconnect? mhm |
| 14:56.59 | lardman | yeah, but only if an app requests it |
| 14:57.20 | RST38h | got email accounts enabled? |
| 14:57.37 | pH5 | lardman: ctrl+shift+x and start from terminal? |
| 14:57.38 | lcuk | lardman, send yourself an mms? |
| 14:57.59 | lcuk | pH5, :D |
| 14:58.02 | lcuk | that will work |
| 14:58.07 | lardman | pH5: nice, thanks |
| 14:58.30 | lardman | so what's the drawing app called? |
| 14:58.38 | lardman | as I lack tab completion |
| 14:58.58 | MohammadAG | CTRL + I = tab |
| 14:59.06 | lardman | thanks |
| 14:59.17 | lcuk | osso_sketch |
| 14:59.42 | lardman | thanks |
| 15:00.13 | lardman | right, nothing anywhere, but seems to intermittantly come back |
| 15:00.25 | lardman | as I managed to start the phone and get the desktop into edit mode while randomly tapping |
| 15:02.34 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:02.52 | lardman | hmm, this is troublesome this finger-only ui business |
| 15:03.13 | lcuk | lardman, how is the sensitivity with stylus |
| 15:03.21 | lardman | nothing |
| 15:03.41 | lardman | was thinking I might just create a backup then reflash the device |
| 15:03.55 | lardman | but I can't press the "New backup" button |
| 15:04.04 | lardman | which is a bit annoying |
| 15:04.09 | lcuk | you said its intermittant |
| 15:04.14 | MohammadAG | what's your public IP :P |
| 15:04.24 | lardman | was, but nothing coming through now |
| 15:04.26 | MohammadAG | someone could vnc in for you and click it |
| 15:04.48 | lardman | lcuk: I was tapping like mad and it would very occasionally get the right location, sometimes not, mostly just no events |
| 15:04.56 | lardman | MohammadAG: not connected |
| 15:05.06 | MohammadAG | try modprobe tsc2005 |
| 15:05.48 | lardman | done, no change |
| 15:06.10 | MohammadAG | what does dmesg say? |
| 15:06.33 | lardman | says twl4030_keypad: Spurious key event 4-2 |
| 15:06.50 | MohammadAG | nothing about tsc2005? |
| 15:06.57 | RST38h | lardman: What is the current CPU load? |
| 15:07.07 | lardman | anyone know the pipe symbol using ctrl? |
| 15:07.20 | RST38h | there is none afaik |
| 15:07.24 | MohammadAG | there is none afaik |
| 15:07.30 | lardman | crap |
| 15:07.31 | MohammadAG | o_O |
| 15:07.38 | lardman | RST38h: load is ~1.7% |
| 15:07.40 | MohammadAG | wtf? |
| 15:07.42 | lardman | cpu rather |
| 15:07.50 | MohammadAG | umm |
| 15:07.57 | MohammadAG | no, that wouldn't work, nvm |
| 15:07.59 | RST38h | lardman: I noticed that it does not react to the touch screen when CPU and swap are maxed out |
| 15:08.06 | RST38h | But I guess it is not your case |
| 15:08.22 | lardman | no, still has free memory reported too ~4Mb |
| 15:08.33 | MohammadAG | tsc2005 should return errors about the touchscreen |
| 15:08.48 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: not with some faults. |
| 15:08.52 | RST38h | dmesg will show log messages |
| 15:08.53 | lardman | ok, > symbol with ctrl? |
| 15:09.15 | RST38h | all log messages that is |
| 15:09.17 | MohammadAG | cat /dev/input/ts |
| 15:09.27 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade_ (~xfade@78-20-3-161.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:09.27 | MohammadAG | lardman, none |
| 15:09.56 | lardman | well data is getting in from the touchscreen |
| 15:10.02 | RST38h | coool |
| 15:10.04 | lardman | I get lots of odd symbols with each touch |
| 15:10.08 | RST38h | reflash may still help it then |
| 15:10.44 | lardman | phew |
| 15:10.50 | lardman | well 1/2 a phew anyway |
| 15:12.04 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-239-164.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 15:12.18 | MohammadAG | oh cool |
| 15:12.25 | MohammadAG | got 30 minutes free on skype |
| 15:12.58 | lardman | odd, touching the touchscreen brings the backlight back on, but no response from the ui components |
| 15:13.05 | *** join/#maemo th3hate (~Chrome@bzq-79-177-184-71.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 15:13.14 | lardman | actually not so odd I guess |
| 15:13.26 | SpeedEvil | lardman: that would be consistent with touches 'off the edge' |
| 15:13.37 | lardman | ok |
| 15:13.46 | MohammadAG | maybe you just need to calibrate? |
| 15:13.52 | lardman | yes I was just thinking that |
| 15:14.13 | lardman | but how to start the applet? |
| 15:14.55 | BCMM | vnc |
| 15:15.04 | lardman | no connection |
| 15:15.09 | BCMM | ah |
| 15:15.38 | SpeedEvil | If calibration has gone that badly wrong, it's likely a hardware fail |
| 15:15.41 | MohammadAG | tscalibrate |
| 15:15.47 | MohammadAG | as root |
| 15:15.54 | SpeedEvil | well - barring random disk errors that somehow corrupt the calibration |
| 15:16.10 | lardman | I'm guessing it's hw |
| 15:16.25 | lardman | am stuck on the PIN screen again having shutdown in prep for reflashing |
| 15:16.34 | MohammadAG | still, you could give it a try |
| 15:16.37 | lardman | and the 6 key works sometimes, but not much else |
| 15:16.52 | lardman | shame my pin is not the number of the devil |
| 15:16.58 | SpeedEvil | You're at the stage of trying to find where the rattle is on your dashboard, while the car is still rolling over and over |
| 15:17.18 | lardman | ok, reflash it is |
| 15:17.20 | SpeedEvil | Might it have gotten damp? |
| 15:17.25 | lardman | nope |
| 15:17.36 | SpeedEvil | Good luck! |
| 15:17.41 | lardman | ~pr1.3 |
| 15:17.41 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update |
| 15:17.46 | SpeedEvil | ~mynokia |
| 15:17.47 | apt | i guess mynokia is a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription, or https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10366 |
| 15:17.49 | povbot` | Bug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user |
| 15:18.15 | lardman | SpeedEvil: thanks, will let you know what happens in 5min |
| 15:18.28 | alterego | MohammadAG: are you using the new 0.9.0 release of columbus in extras-devel? |
| 15:18.50 | alterego | MohammadAG: or, can you install it and see if it starts GPS okay? |
| 15:18.52 | MohammadAG | lardman, you could remove the pin |
| 15:18.57 | MohammadAG | then try to calibrate |
| 15:19.03 | MohammadAG | remove the sim* |
| 15:19.33 | MohammadAG | alterego, installing |
| 15:19.57 | alterego | It seems the issue I'm having with Columbus not starting GPS is happening in that version, which worked for me. |
| 15:20.00 | lardman | MohammadAG: might have to as I don;t think the standard image will flash on this phone |
| 15:20.12 | alterego | But it's also happening to at least two other people, but not everyone, which is weird .. |
| 15:20.26 | lardman | goes to find another phone |
| 15:22.10 | SpeedEvil | Is there a way of moving SMSs from one n900 to anotehr, if you move the SIM? |
| 15:22.15 | SpeedEvil | Without overwriting |
| 15:22.29 | *** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@cs181139176.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:22.29 | alterego | You can merge the databases. |
| 15:22.45 | alterego | But you'd have to work that out yourself. |
| 15:22.48 | SpeedEvil | Does the backup app do the right thing? |
| 15:22.53 | alterego | No |
| 15:23.09 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
| 15:23.15 | MohammadAG | alterego, it doesn't start |
| 15:23.18 | alterego | When you reinstall a backup it removes all messages, call history etc and replaces it with the backup you're putting in. |
| 15:23.22 | alterego | MohammadAG: lame :/ |
| 15:23.26 | SpeedEvil | alterego: lame |
| 15:23.33 | alterego | How does it work for some people but not for us |
| 15:23.37 | MohammadAG | alterego, columbus that is |
| 15:23.41 | MohammadAG | not the GPS |
| 15:23.44 | alterego | I need to flash my N900 and see what happens. |
| 15:23.57 | alterego | MohammadAG: yeah, I know the issue intimately :P |
| 15:23.57 | MohammadAG | where is the columbus binary? |
| 15:24.03 | alterego | /opt/usr/bin |
| 15:24.28 | MohammadAG | librxsupport.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 15:24.41 | alterego | LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/usr/lib /opt/usr/bin/columbus |
| 15:25.06 | alterego | I seem to have broken adding /opt/usr/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf |
| 15:25.07 | alterego | :) |
| 15:26.12 | *** join/#maemo Zucca (zucca@cs181186108.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:26.22 | MohammadAG | alterego, gps started |
| 15:26.36 | alterego | What? |
| 15:26.57 | MohammadAG | Satellite locked on |
| 15:27.09 | alterego | How are you running it? |
| 15:27.21 | MohammadAG | 9 signals too |
| 15:27.29 | MohammadAG | umm, terminal? :P |
| 15:27.37 | alterego | The issue is location services not starting for some people. |
| 15:27.43 | alterego | MohammadAG: exactly like I just said? |
| 15:27.45 | MohammadAG | Sec |
| 15:27.50 | alterego | What use? |
| 15:27.50 | MohammadAG | lemme start it as user |
| 15:27.55 | alterego | And are you doing it from xterm or ssh? |
| 15:27.57 | lardman | bloody setup screen |
| 15:28.07 | MohammadAG | ok |
| 15:28.13 | MohammadAG | it fails to start as user |
| 15:28.15 | MohammadAG | only works as root |
| 15:28.24 | alterego | ffs |
| 15:28.27 | alterego | That is absurd |
| 15:28.29 | MohammadAG | hm |
| 15:28.30 | lardman | I can press the Save button and it turns blue, but doesn't go away, almost as if the hw thinks it has a keydown but no keyup |
| 15:28.31 | MohammadAG | no |
| 15:28.36 | MohammadAG | alterego, it works on the second run |
| 15:28.37 | alterego | Unless there's something fucked in sudoers |
| 15:28.55 | MohammadAG | not really, my system can run anything with sudo |
| 15:28.59 | MohammadAG | alterego, it works |
| 15:29.07 | alterego | sighs |
| 15:29.23 | MohammadAG | coarse accuracy |
| 15:29.30 | alterego | I don't care about that. |
| 15:29.36 | alterego | I just want to know if the services start :P |
| 15:29.39 | MohammadAG | I like the fullscreen window :P |
| 15:29.44 | MohammadAG | i know, you just want the satellite |
| 15:29.50 | MohammadAG | it works fine on the second run |
| 15:30.07 | MohammadAG | missing config files on first run? |
| 15:30.24 | alterego | Nope |
| 15:30.33 | alterego | That should/doesn't matter. |
| 15:30.43 | alterego | s/should/shouldn't/ |
| 15:31.01 | thp | is there a quick tutorial for compiling kernel modules? would like to see if g_audio works on the n900 :) |
| 15:31.42 | MohammadAG | thp, get the kernel source, edit .config, build modules |
| 15:32.54 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 15:32.59 | alterego | sighs |
| 15:34.01 | lardman | Anyone got a FIASCO image for the pre-summit devices handy? |
| 15:34.31 | MohammadAG | just flash the rootfs of the new one |
| 15:34.36 | alterego | sighs |
| 15:34.45 | lardman | MohammadAG: that's the fallback yeah |
| 15:34.54 | lardman | but thought I should start afresh if poss |
| 15:35.01 | ShadowJK | wouldn't that firmware be ancient by now? |
| 15:35.08 | lardman | sure, but I can update it |
| 15:35.09 | MohammadAG | lardman, flasher-3.5 -F newimage --flash-only=rootfs -f |
| 15:35.15 | GAN900 | lardman, did up until about two weeks ago. :P |
| 15:35.40 | lardman | GAN900: I've got some scudding about on another HDD, but I have to find the physical drive |
| 15:35.41 | ShadowJK | I thought you had to reflash the summit (and pre-summit?) firmwares anyway, that SSU didn't quite work on them |
| 15:35.52 | lardman | worked until now ;) |
| 15:35.57 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:36.23 | ShadowJK | I thought the emmc flashing was introduced just to bring the summit 300 to same structure as release devices :) |
| 15:37.18 | alterego | How would I clear the env in a subshell to run a command from the terminal? |
| 15:37.28 | alterego | Ah, it is env -i |
| 15:38.32 | alterego | That worked |
| 15:39.33 | *** join/#maemo rosseaux (znc@129-167-19-84.nbiserv.com) |
| 15:39.38 | alterego | There's something in the environment that's breaking it .. |
| 15:39.59 | alterego | env -i DISPLAY=$DISPLAY /bin/sh -c 'LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/usr/lib run-standalone.sh /opt/usr/bin/columbus' |
| 15:39.59 | lardman | goes to watch TV while the image downloads |
| 15:40.03 | alterego | That makes it start fine .. |
| 15:44.31 | *** join/#maemo Guest28604 (~user@2.71.26.129) |
| 15:44.51 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@pD953F435.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:45.56 | lardman | flashed rootfs, fingers crossed |
| 15:47.24 | alterego | Okay, it's something to do with the home directory .. |
| 15:49.05 | alterego | So, for some reason, when HOME is set in the env, on certain peoples devices, it breaks location services .. |
| 15:50.03 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@212.103.70.50) |
| 15:50.12 | lardman | can anyone remember how long first boot takes? |
| 15:50.30 | lardman | ah, no worries, just got the noise |
| 15:50.52 | lardman | crap, ts still not working |
| 15:50.55 | alterego | lardman: an annoyingly and worryingly long time ;) |
| 15:51.02 | alterego | Your touchscreen is broken? |
| 15:51.03 | SpeedEvil | lardman: quite a while |
| 15:51.05 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 15:51.07 | SpeedEvil | 3-4 mins? |
| 15:51.08 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:51.13 | alterego | And I thought my issue was major :P |
| 15:51.17 | lardman | yeah, looks like a hw failure |
| 15:51.20 | SpeedEvil | lardman: you have a summit device? |
| 15:51.27 | lardman | SpeedEvil: pre-summit |
| 15:51.39 | SpeedEvil | The TS are available, I think. |
| 15:51.50 | SpeedEvil | I don't know how/if they verify warranty info actually. |
| 15:52.05 | SpeedEvil | Given that all n900s sold in the UK are in warranty, would they actually check? |
| 15:52.27 | lardman | the label inside is different, not sure they'd be too impressed |
| 15:53.16 | SpeedEvil | Not to be a downer. But touchscreen failure should never cause any issue with the keyboard. |
| 15:53.30 | lardman | this is not a kb problem |
| 15:53.34 | SpeedEvil | Unless I'm missing something |
| 15:53.47 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I thought you were saying only the 6 button worked |
| 15:54.13 | *** join/#maemo tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@bzq-84-109-243-175.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 15:54.34 | lardman | on the screen, sorry |
| 15:54.41 | lardman | in the PIN dialog |
| 15:55.15 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 15:55.21 | lardman | hmm, I didn't even try the hw keyboard numbers |
| 15:55.32 | lardman | but return on the hw kb didn't seem to do anything |
| 15:55.43 | SpeedEvil | I should have put together a 'how to add hw compass' video, so you could add that while in there. |
| 15:56.22 | lardman | go for it, I could do with one for my augmented reality app :) |
| 15:56.38 | SpeedEvil | yeah - well - realistically - it's not happening soon alas. |
| 15:56.41 | lardman | hmm, touchscreen is doing something now, again seems like there's no keyup events |
| 15:57.00 | lardman | which means I can't even type in the bloody term as it doesn't get focus |
| 15:57.05 | SpeedEvil | Do you have a case? Or a protector? |
| 15:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | happy new year, to whom it applies |
| 15:57.27 | lardman | SpeedEvil: neither |
| 15:57.33 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - australians so far. |
| 15:57.55 | SpeedEvil | lardman: I would take some sticky tape, attach to the middle of the display, and pull slightly up |
| 15:58.02 | SpeedEvil | lardman: maybe it really is pressed |
| 15:59.34 | alterego | Happy new year DocScrutinizer in about 8 hours ;) |
| 15:59.35 | lardman | SpeedEvil: I don't think so, but I'll give it a go later on |
| 15:59.46 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: how are you at debugging? |
| 15:59.52 | lardman | is there a way of getting out of insert mode in vi without using escape? |
| 15:59.59 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes brilliant |
| 16:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes poor |
| 16:00.14 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: Do you remember the annoying issue I keep suffering with my GPS app and the fact location services fail to start on some builds of my app? |
| 16:00.35 | DocScrutinizer | you mentioned it |
| 16:00.55 | DocScrutinizer | I thought it's related to 60s timeout, but wasn't sure |
| 16:00.59 | alterego | Well, before it was to do with dynamic loading of my plugins, and the order in which I did it. |
| 16:01.10 | SpeedEvil | lardman: ctrl-Z? |
| 16:01.15 | DocScrutinizer | oh that one |
| 16:01.33 | lardman | SpeedEvil: ah, thanks |
| 16:01.35 | SpeedEvil | naah |
| 16:01.37 | alterego | This time, it seems that it works on some devices, but not on others (mine included). I can however run it when I start off with a clear environment. |
| 16:01.52 | alterego | So I did a bit of playing and it seems that the HOME env variable is causing this strange problem. |
| 16:01.53 | piggz | i set up nokia messaging on my n900, and it worked ok for a few days, then i got a 'Final Email' saying i would not be able to get more mail unless i upgrade my account. I am on 3 uk, is this because nokia messaging only works on orange uk? |
| 16:02.00 | SpeedEvil | ctrl-[ |
| 16:02.02 | SpeedEvil | but... |
| 16:02.05 | alterego | (at least that is what is causing it for me at the moment) |
| 16:02.15 | SpeedEvil | piggz: no |
| 16:02.17 | lardman | I don't suppose I can even edit the sources list though to enable extras-devel |
| 16:02.24 | lardman | because I don't have root |
| 16:02.25 | SpeedEvil | piggz: it's because they are turning off nokia messaging for free |
| 16:02.30 | lardman | have to enable r&d mode I suppose |
| 16:02.32 | alterego | Problem is, I (well Qt) needs the HOME variable to find and save it's configuration through QSettings .. |
| 16:02.48 | piggz | SpeedEvil: ah...i see no way to pay for it when i log into the website |
| 16:02.51 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 16:03.20 | SpeedEvil | piggz: I thought they were turning it off totally - I was inferring the paid from your above comment |
| 16:03.31 | piggz | ah |
| 16:03.34 | alterego | I don't know if it'll be easier to debug what's going on now I can reproduce the error and not having the error 100% |
| 16:03.54 | piggz | i wonder why they are turning it off, i found it quite good |
| 16:03.55 | DocScrutinizer | sure it is |
| 16:03.57 | SpeedEvil | piggz: And I see I misread it |
| 16:03.59 | alterego | (Again, only on my device) MohammadAG said it runs fine on his. |
| 16:04.02 | piggz | tho, i am happy with the imap |
| 16:04.09 | SpeedEvil | piggz: Because nokia does things that make no sense. |
| 16:04.29 | piggz | heh |
| 16:04.32 | alterego | And there seem to only be a couple of complaints relating to this problem. And hell, I can't even guarantee that this is the same issue they're having except the symptoms are identical :) |
| 16:04.53 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBEDCA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: lemme think a while about it while I prepare a coffee for me |
| 16:05.50 | alterego | Thanks DocScrutinizer any ideas are welcome at this stage. |
| 16:07.34 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 16:07.45 | nox- | moin |
| 16:08.06 | lardman | hmm, just ran tscalibrate, but still not working particularly well |
| 16:08.07 | SpeedEvil | moin indeed. |
| 16:09.37 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-178-002-234-133.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:11.37 | alterego | lardman: N900? |
| 16:12.07 | alterego | By working "not particularly well" do you mean the TS is off by a lot or that it just isn't working or requires a lot of pressure to work? |
| 16:12.31 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: starting location is done via a lib, right? What's state of GPS and location 'framework' when a program starts the service and then terminates (possibly ungracefully)? |
| 16:12.43 | lardman | alterego: yep |
| 16:13.07 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: moin |
| 16:13.15 | nox- | moin DocScrutinizer |
| 16:13.23 | lardman | alterego: it occassionally registers events, normally not where I tap, but no real way to know where, it sometimes only registers a keydown event, but no keyup |
| 16:13.58 | MohammadAG | alterego, then start it with the $HOME variable set :P |
| 16:14.09 | MohammadAG | or hardcode it to /home/user :P |
| 16:14.12 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: I could imagine the location framework getting severely confused or messed up if the "open" calls aren't paired wit "close" calls |
| 16:15.25 | lardman | looking in sketch, it seems to register where I press, but draws a squiggle from where I last pressed to the current location |
| 16:16.05 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: touchplane defect. swap |
| 16:16.36 | alterego | lardman: sounds like hw fault |
| 16:16.50 | alterego | :( |
| 16:17.09 | lardman | yeah, I think it's broken |
| 16:17.12 | lardman | ah well |
| 16:17.30 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I'm going to try and hardcode paths into QSettings as well, to see if it's IO and not env that causes the issue. |
| 16:17.53 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: aiui the two foils making for the touchpanel are separated by soem oil. If that oil leaked or oxidized and hardened or whatever, you will see this problem. You need a new touchpanel |
| 16:17.55 | lardman | my wife will be pleased at least, no more trying to code this app up over the holidays |
| 16:18.01 | alterego | lardman: if it's out of warranty take it apart and check the connector :) |
| 16:18.22 | lardman | alterego: it's not mine, I'll send it back to Nokia |
| 16:18.36 | lardman | but thanks for the ideas |
| 16:18.46 | lardman | in fact thanks everyone for your help and ideas :) |
| 16:18.51 | alterego | Yeah, like DocScrutinizer said, if you noticed bright spots on the panel, especially near right edge (i believe) .. |
| 16:19.00 | *** join/#maemo jef91 (~jeff@adsl-99-1-119-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:19.01 | jef91 | So I had an extended battery on my N900 for a few weeks, but ended up going back to the stock battery because the device was a bit too bulky. However since doing this the battery reader on the N900 has been way off. It will suddenly drop from half to red and sometimes it even goes backwards (from red back up to 25%) after letting it sit for a little bit. Any ideas why this may be and how I can fix it? |
| 16:19.03 | lardman | I've had some bright spots for a year or so |
| 16:19.29 | lardman | so yeah, I guess old age/general ageing sort of problem finally come home to roost |
| 16:19.35 | alterego | jef91: you need to run it to flat and then fully charge it on mains adapter |
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| 16:20.02 | jef91 | Ahh |
| 16:20.06 | jef91 | Good advice |
| 16:20.15 | jef91 | will have to get around to doing that at some point then |
| 16:20.22 | MohammadAG | i love it when the meter goes up |
| 16:20.28 | MohammadAG | especially when I restart |
| 16:21.14 | jef91 | LOL |
| 16:21.15 | jef91 | Right? |
| 16:21.18 | Sicelo | ~aiui |
| 16:21.19 | apt | hmm... aiui is As I Understand It |
| 16:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | jef91: exactly. bme is doing weird things to calculate batery, and it stores values to some persistent area |
| 16:21.44 | alterego | MohammadAG: that happens during runtime for me. |
| 16:22.02 | alterego | MohammadAG: I guess because after some "heavy" use then being standby for a while it sorts its' self out |
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| 16:22.23 | alterego | Right, |
| 16:22.27 | alterego | gets ready to hit the road |
| 16:23.23 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: yes, it does |
| 16:23.45 | lardman | searches for his wife's discarded Android phone, yuck |
| 16:26.15 | alterego | wonders what lardmans' wife discarded android for? :) |
| 16:26.36 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 16:27.21 | DocScrutinizer | bme most probably has inherited an algorithm to calculate battery charge that's like 10 years old and seen only small evolutionary improvements. It takes into account vltage when idle, voltage when heavy load, and voltage when charging, and is using these values in a complex polynom to predict time-to-empty. At least that's what Nokia phones did 10 years ago, and bme acts exactly same way as those in quite a number of aspects |
| 16:27.22 | lardman | HTC Tattoo, screen is quite small, on-screen kb is really annoying |
| 16:27.22 | Saviq | hi all, any pointers on using the N900 as an audio sink over wifi or bluetooth? pulseaudio? a2dp? any experiences? |
| 16:27.57 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: agreed, but if it aint broke right? :P |
| 16:28.06 | alterego | lardman: woof |
| 16:28.19 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: sorry, please rephrase |
| 16:29.21 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: that old proverb, "If it aint broke, don't fix it" |
| 16:29.26 | DocScrutinizer | Saviq: nothing here, not even heard any rumours |
| 16:29.37 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: aah yes |
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| 16:31.47 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: for you location problem I feel like missing input to say anything usefull. Except: "toss printfs in!" |
| 16:32.59 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@pD953E9DE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:33.29 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: I have many, from my perspective everything starts up and initializes fine. |
| 16:33.41 | DocScrutinizer | you *could* try with strace, and then compare a run that succeeded with a run that failed... but that might be painful |
| 16:34.11 | DocScrutinizer | YMMV |
| 16:34.14 | alterego | There is no indication (programatically) that location services fail to start, except the fact I don't get any signals for position updates or satellite info updates. |
| 16:34.27 | lardman | looks to update the Tattoo to Android 2.2.x or something like that as he's going to be using it for at least a few days |
| 16:34.38 | DocScrutinizer | do you close liblocation?? |
| 16:34.52 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: that should all be handled by Qt Mobility. |
| 16:34.59 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 16:35.01 | alterego | I don't talk to liblocation directly. |
| 16:35.47 | DocScrutinizer | I don't trust QtM more than I trust windows3.11 for cntrolling my cars's steering |
| 16:35.53 | *** join/#maemo Zucca (zucca@cs181186108.pp.htv.fi) |
| 16:35.55 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:36.36 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: I dont want to use Power Kernel rather use my own custom kernel. Are the h-e-n patches easy to patch against a custom kernel? |
| 16:36.40 | alterego | I should look at the qtm bug tracker, but I've asked about these symptoms several times over the past half year in #qt-mobility and no one seems to know what's going on. |
| 16:36.56 | DocScrutinizer | see QtM is OO. Who knows when it actually opens liblocation? in constructor? |
| 16:37.15 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: No, not in constructor |
| 16:37.44 | alterego | It gets initialized on first call to a function that manipulates it, in my case setting the update interval. |
| 16:38.12 | alterego | Anyhow, gotta go, happy new year folks, talk to you next year. |
| 16:38.16 | alterego | wanders off. |
| 16:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | maybe it never closes it again. So some "stack" in liblocation holds a "handle" that get stall. |
| 16:39.57 | DocScrutinizer | when you run your prog a second time, liblocation gets completely confused as there's one handle that timed out or is corrupted, and another one with same "credentials" so what the lib gonna do? |
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| 16:40.27 | DocScrutinizer | NB just a wild speculation |
| 16:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | anyway you need to debug QtM, not your program |
| 16:42.28 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@pD953F189.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:43.18 | DocScrutinizer | maybe QtM writes some info about time and lon/lat of last fix to $HOME and freaks out if that'S corrupted or whatever |
| 16:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | strace |
| 16:43.56 | DocScrutinizer | |grep /home/user |
| 16:44.25 | DocScrutinizer | (of course a bit smarter a cmdline! ;-) ) |
| 16:44.41 | MohammadAG | alterego, sometimes it happens when using VBUS on hostmode |
| 16:44.58 | DocScrutinizer | WUT? |
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| 16:45.48 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 16:46.03 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what happens? |
| 16:47.10 | MohammadAG | the battery thinks it charged up |
| 16:48.27 | DocScrutinizer | aah yes |
| 16:48.43 | lardman | hmm, rather odd, touchscreen now working perfectly |
| 16:48.55 | DocScrutinizer | bme doesn't react nice to getting restarted |
| 16:49.04 | lardman | I was about to turn it off and stick it in a drawer, and it seems to be working |
| 16:49.19 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 16:49.39 | DocScrutinizer | it's a bitch |
| 16:50.02 | lardman | not sure I can trust it now though |
| 16:50.06 | lardman | but I'll give it a go |
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| 16:51.16 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: inspect TS closely for mechanical damage. Small ditches, irregularities, non uniform look when inspecting under bright light from different angles |
| 16:51.28 | lardman | which is good, as updating an android phone with a custom rom looks like a major pita |
| 16:51.36 | johnx | mmmm...pita |
| 16:51.53 | lardman | nothing on the surface DocScrutinizer |
| 16:52.00 | johnx | that'd be an awesome name for a pita restaurant: Major Pita |
| 16:52.00 | trx | lol |
| 16:52.08 | trx | pita on serbian means pie :) |
| 16:52.12 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I also like how removing the charger from the wall still charges the phone for like, 20s |
| 16:52.14 | trx | major pie :) |
| 16:52.30 | johnx | trx, it's a kind of flat bread here |
| 16:52.40 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that's normal when it has stopped charging |
| 16:52.45 | trx | johnx where is that? |
| 16:52.58 | johnx | the US, but I don't know the origin of the word |
| 16:53.01 | johnx | checks |
| 16:53.02 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: the phone will take next to 0 current from charger |
| 16:53.07 | lardman | same in the UK |
| 16:53.13 | lardman | pita that is |
| 16:53.31 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: so buffer Cs will keep it "charging" for some time |
| 16:53.36 | lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pita |
| 16:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | Greece |
| 16:54.00 | johnx | define:pita tells me " ... It is prevalent from North Africa through the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula. ..." |
| 16:54.23 | DocScrutinizer | ot Turkey |
| 16:54.31 | lardman | comes from pie, so same as trx |
| 16:55.11 | DocScrutinizer | Pita is a flat white bread |
| 16:55.47 | trx | yeah |
| 16:55.54 | trx | we call that "somun" here |
| 16:56.40 | MohammadAG | funny we don't call it pita :P |
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| 16:57.26 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
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| 16:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | here the turkish shops usually offer Doner Kebap and Durum Doner which is the meat and stuff wrapped in a pita |
| 16:58.31 | DocScrutinizer | aiui |
| 16:58.53 | nox- | aka `gyros pita' |
| 16:58.59 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 16:59.03 | trx | that giros |
| 16:59.05 | DocScrutinizer | the greek variant |
| 16:59.06 | trx | thats* |
| 16:59.16 | trx | or gyros, w/e |
| 17:00.12 | DocScrutinizer | rather funny how Grreks and Turkish fight about who invented allmost all of their meals |
| 17:00.31 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, yup. saw those in Europe and Japan, but not as much in the US ... |
| 17:00.36 | trx | yeah :) |
| 17:01.22 | trx | i could eat some gyros now :/ |
| 17:01.33 | johnx | ok, time for breakfast ... |
| 17:01.36 | ShadowJK | thought kebap was invented in germany |
| 17:01.44 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 17:01.47 | trx | hahaha |
| 17:02.23 | ShadowJK | (by a Turkish immigrant) |
| 17:02.32 | DocScrutinizer | Here they invented the very special variant Gammeldoener |
| 17:02.40 | nox- | yeah :/ |
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| 17:03.18 | DocScrutinizer | made of meat that's at least 2 years old, and preferrably green ;-D |
| 17:03.28 | trx | :D |
| 17:03.31 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, green ham and eggs? |
| 17:03.36 | Venemo | hey |
| 17:03.38 | ShadowJK | In a city here they invented cupmeat. Apparently they ran out of everything else, so they stuffed kebap in a paper cup. yum. |
| 17:04.49 | DocScrutinizer | well, to be fair it seems the Austrians invented it |
| 17:05.25 | Venemo | :D |
| 17:05.53 | Venemo | http://wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/champagne_new_year-t2.jpg -> this is what I send to everyone |
| 17:06.28 | RST38h | Well, mooo, johnx, ShadowJK, Doc |
| 17:06.35 | johnx | m00f RST38h |
| 17:06.43 | johnx | how's the future looking? |
| 17:06.43 | DocScrutinizer | hi RST38h |
| 17:07.29 | Venemo | RST38h: mooo to you too |
| 17:07.51 | Venemo | try 'apt-get moo' |
| 17:08.27 | RST38h | johnx: Who knows? It is obscured by the giant figure of the Tentacled One |
| 17:08.54 | johnx | RST38h, I'll take that as a good omen. better then politics at least ... |
| 17:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I just wonder: do you stir or shake it |
| 17:09.46 | DocScrutinizer | (cupmeat) |
| 17:09.52 | ShadowJK | I think you throw up |
| 17:09.59 | DocScrutinizer | hehehehe |
| 17:10.25 | johnx | "Shake that cupmeat." Wasn't there some song about that? |
| 17:10.28 | RST38h | And measure the distance? |
| 17:11.16 | RST38h | johnx: The Tentacled One feeds on humans through many means, politics being one of them =) |
| 17:11.21 | ShadowJK | then someone dies and it isn't fun anymore |
| 17:11.29 | ShadowJK | (like the sauna competitions) |
| 17:11.39 | ptl | what are the cheapest places in europe to buy mobile phones near switzerland? France? Germany? |
| 17:13.03 | johnx | RST38h, I was hoping he'd feed on the politicians, but if he feeds on humans I guess that's out :| |
| 17:14.00 | DocScrutinizer | hands a Jamesey's Breakfast Coctail to everybody |
| 17:14.19 | lardman | wanders off, should be back later, but Happy New Year to all anyway |
| 17:14.24 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 17:14.32 | johnx | happy new years lardman |
| 17:14.40 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Not if they die in a truly spectuacular way, like throwing their intestines out or something |
| 17:14.50 | RST38h | is definitely in festive mood tonight |
| 17:15.12 | RST38h | lardman: did touchscreen work at the end? |
| 17:15.53 | BluesLee | why i get invalid module format when compiling dvb-usb modules for the power kernel? |
| 17:16.11 | DocScrutinizer | ptl: france generally is f'ng expensive on electrnics |
| 17:16.28 | ptl | DocScrutinizer51: good to know :) |
| 17:16.34 | ptl | why is it so? |
| 17:16.43 | DocScrutinizer | ptl: they got a special tax for it |
| 17:16.57 | ptl | oh... |
| 17:17.02 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 17:17.30 | DocScrutinizer | Germany isn't bad. England is good |
| 17:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | ...when it comes to hardware prices |
| 17:18.19 | GAN900 | U S A! U S A! |
| 17:19.19 | tybollt_ | kudos gan, I just threw up a little in my mouth :) |
| 17:20.16 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~trumee@cpc3-cmbg14-0-0-cust113.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
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| 17:21.25 | ptl | Germany? Stuttgart maybe, DocScrutinizer51? |
| 17:21.31 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.120.229.82) |
| 17:22.24 | johnx | tybollt_, can't beat the prices though :) |
| 17:22.34 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@jof66-1-82-242-246-29.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:22.34 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 17:22.52 | GAN900 | tybollt_, cheap electronics. |
| 17:23.04 | GAN900 | tybollt_, also: be thankful for your microprocessors. :P |
| 17:25.22 | johnx | GAN900, errr, aren't those made in Taiwan? |
| 17:25.42 | GAN900 | johnx, yeah yeah. |
| 17:26.04 | *** join/#maemo shanx (7aa31241@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.163.18.65) |
| 17:26.09 | johnx | GAN900, they can thank us for Intel, Microsoft and Apple ... errr, wait |
| 17:26.57 | Funnyface | hmm did they remove the free version of Qik from the ovi store? :> |
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| 17:28.30 | trx | then you can thank us for AC :) |
| 17:29.34 | Funnyface | thank who? :P |
| 17:29.51 | trx | serbia of course :) |
| 17:30.09 | johnx | trx, nah, AC is a British company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cars |
| 17:30.15 | trx | lol |
| 17:30.17 | trx | not that |
| 17:30.26 | trx | the alternating current |
| 17:30.36 | trx | (Tesla) |
| 17:30.39 | johnx | air conditioning was my next guess ... |
| 17:30.42 | trx | lol |
| 17:30.45 | Funnyface | hehe ok, I just saw some "USA USA" stuff up the chat, so was wondering if the americans were trying to take the credits for that ^^ |
| 17:31.06 | trx | :) |
| 17:37.23 | DocScrutinizer | USA? thanks for chewing gum and guns, and peace in Iraq |
| 17:37.29 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 17:37.38 | trx | haha |
| 17:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | thanks for some rocks from the moon (though I'm not sure I need them) |
| 17:40.01 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, hey. be thankful. we invented democracy |
| 17:40.14 | Venemo | not true |
| 17:40.15 | DocScrutinizer | oh yeah, I forgot XD |
| 17:40.15 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 17:40.20 | Venemo | Greeks invented democracy |
| 17:40.27 | johnx | Venemo, sorry, forgot the <sarcasm> tags |
| 17:40.34 | Venemo | :P |
| 17:40.50 | ptl | is Geneve cheaper than Zürich generally? |
| 17:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: you invented it, streamlined it, patented it, and then outsourced it |
| 17:41.08 | johnx | <tone not-sarcastic>note to all: it's safe to put sarcasm tags around pretty much everything I say, especially today</tone> |
| 17:41.26 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, and if you're not good, we'll bring it over to wherever you are :> |
| 17:41.27 | ptl | is sarcasm an U.S. invention? |
| 17:42.42 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 17:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | no, Michel Moore is an U.S. invention ;-) |
| 17:44.02 | kerio | modern "democracy" has nothing to do with democracy |
| 17:44.14 | ptl | I thought he was a cheap knockoff of something else. |
| 17:45.25 | johnx | kerio, and in some ways, that's a good thing |
| 17:45.59 | kerio | johnx: not really, no |
| 17:46.11 | kerio | we have the tools to implement a working direct democracy nowadays |
| 17:46.45 | SpeedEvil | kerio: No, we don't. |
| 17:46.47 | johnx | kerio, Uhm, doesn't that kind of inevitably lead to steamrolling the minorities? |
| 17:47.09 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 17:47.10 | SpeedEvil | kerio: Direct democracy is predicated on a population that knows all the issues it's voting on. |
| 17:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: just in a different way than it is now |
| 17:47.38 | SpeedEvil | And - reasonably - has spent a bit of time thinking about each issue in a rational manner. |
| 17:47.39 | kerio | SpeedEvil: not sure if you noticed, but we also have tools to spread insane amounts of knowledge about anything anywhere in no time |
| 17:47.49 | SpeedEvil | kerio: You're missing the point. |
| 17:48.15 | kerio | SpeedEvil: do you think politicians are aware of the things they do? |
| 17:48.19 | SpeedEvil | kerio: You are presented with a bill to restrict fishing of a certain species of fish, in an area you have no direct knowledge of. |
| 17:48.24 | johnx | kerio, people are still working with squishy v1.0 human brains though, and are thus only capable of assimilating a certain amount of knowledge at a time |
| 17:48.36 | SpeedEvil | kerio: How do you vote? Given that you have 38000 votes to do that day on various issues. |
| 17:48.37 | kerio | SpeedEvil: no i'm not |
| 17:48.44 | kerio | because it's presented to the people living in that area |
| 17:49.07 | kerio | also our politicians work 3 days/week for about 4 hours |
| 17:49.08 | SpeedEvil | And the people living in the area don't care about fishing, as it's only 0.1% of the population who do it. |
| 17:49.33 | SpeedEvil | At least in principle, politicians have quality advice to fall back on on each issue. |
| 17:49.34 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, well, then both the past and current implementations of democracy aren't perfect solutions then. Maybe it's time to do it over |
| 17:49.41 | kerio | SpeedEvil: so why should it be voted upon by people? |
| 17:49.53 | SpeedEvil | kerio: That is what direct democracy means |
| 17:50.04 | kerio | ...no |
| 17:50.08 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: I'm not happy with any state |
| 17:50.08 | SpeedEvil | kerio: You get to make the decisions, not elected representatives. |
| 17:50.20 | kerio | why should elected representatives decide upon a particular fish |
| 17:51.04 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, I kinda wished there was a way to make micro-nations work out ... |
| 17:51.05 | SpeedEvil | kerio: Because there has been concern raised that it's dangerously close to a level at which the current fishing efforts will collapse the stock - say. |
| 17:51.16 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: ack |
| 17:51.23 | RST38h | Ain't you gentlemen being extra gloomy tonight? Politics... |
| 17:51.34 | kerio | SpeedEvil: so there is an explanation |
| 17:51.36 | kerio | there are pros and cons |
| 17:51.36 | SpeedEvil | Tonight! I'm hoovering. |
| 17:51.39 | kerio | people can evaluate them |
| 17:52.03 | SpeedEvil | kerio: Right. But if it's one of a thousand decisions a day - how much effort are people going to take on deciding on each? |
| 17:52.06 | johnx | maybe we should just whip up an AI (or failing that an expert system) to run the gvmt |
| 17:52.12 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: built your hooverboard? |
| 17:52.23 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: No - I lack the ~$60000 |
| 17:52.23 | kerio | SpeedEvil: on the important ones? let's hope "enough" |
| 17:52.51 | SpeedEvil | It used to - sort-of work that way. |
| 17:53.03 | SpeedEvil | Haansard got extensive coverage in UK papers a hundred years ago. |
| 17:53.14 | SpeedEvil | (the transcripts of parliament) |
| 17:53.25 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: thought you might have switched to solid fuel boosters aka silvetser rockets maybe |
| 17:53.42 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Naah. I want a rechargable one ideally. |
| 17:54.19 | johnx | hooverboard? |
| 17:54.40 | SpeedEvil | naah - hoovering - vacuum cleaning - tonight. |
| 17:54.50 | johnx | wants to build one of the leaf blower hoverboards |
| 17:55.09 | SpeedEvil | I also have a paper design for a hoverboard that can accellerate from rest at ~2G, and climb to ~4km under battery power |
| 17:55.29 | SpeedEvil | (~1.5km if you want to come down in a controlled manner) |
| 17:55.44 | RST38h | johnx: Why not build a water-pump powered jetpack instead? Moarrr powerrrr |
| 17:55.56 | johnx | those look fun too |
| 17:56.17 | RST38h | The idiot box is showing NY in .IL |
| 17:56.22 | DocScrutinizer | MTHEL ftw |
| 17:56.44 | RST38h | Mohammad: Looks like you do celebrate it, at least at some spots |
| 17:57.16 | GAN900 | johnx, that sounds dangerously like state rights. :P |
| 17:58.26 | johnx | GAN900, that'd work too. Though I am notably leery about some of the state governments ... |
| 17:58.43 | GAN900 | Well, don't live there then. |
| 17:59.10 | RST38h | Sooo, once he puts all the state governments on that list, what should he do? |
| 17:59.20 | johnx | proper hoverboard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4N-CLPXF8w |
| 17:59.28 | GAN900 | RST38h, move to where most people live who agree with his views. |
| 17:59.49 | johnx | RST38h, stake out an island in the south pacific and set up my own co-dictatorship with my wife and cat |
| 17:59.50 | GAN900 | Which when you're talking about US states is almost always going to be somewhere. |
| 18:00.20 | SpeedEvil | johnx: I disagree - hoverboards need to go over uneven ground, and be capable of significant accelleration. |
| 18:00.33 | RST38h | johnx: But whom are you going to prosecute there? |
| 18:00.42 | pupnik | johnx: stateless societies? they are stable http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/12/06/the_mystery_of_zomia/ |
| 18:00.45 | johnx | RST38h, coconuts |
| 18:01.00 | RST38h | dendrophile! |
| 18:01.01 | DocScrutinizer | someone got a wrench? I need to tighten the screws on the steel pipe between the O2 pressurized and the acetylene bottles |
| 18:01.14 | pupnik | or rather can be |
| 18:01.22 | johnx | SpeedEvil, video or it didn't happen :P |
| 18:01.52 | RST38h | pupnik: That is liberal Boston professor reading too much into his observations |
| 18:01.55 | johnx | pupnik, I think the last time this came up I think the question was asked: Why don't you move there and give us a first hand account |
| 18:02.14 | pupnik | you wouldn't fit in, stateboy :) |
| 18:02.29 | johnx | not me, *you* :P |
| 18:02.50 | *** join/#maemo thefool (~chris@c-174-48-52-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 18:02.55 | SpeedEvil | johnx: I only have a paper design unfortunately. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15230 - ~150 of those in a close-packed array, a lot of lithium-ion batteries, and some control gear |
| 18:03.57 | johnx | SpeedEvil, does the power/weight work out? |
| 18:04.10 | SpeedEvil | johnx: With latest li-ion batteries, yes. |
| 18:04.13 | thefool | So I don't think this is a bug but my screen keeps shutting off after a bit and can't be woken up with taps, there is a little slide switch on the side I have to use to see my screen again. I'd really like to see the normal (slide this to unlock) screen instead of needing to use the physical switch. |
| 18:04.17 | thefool | Anyway to do that? |
| 18:04.35 | SpeedEvil | johnx: You - with a ~60Kg board, can lift a 100Kg person, and accellerate them at 1.5-2G |
| 18:05.07 | Venemo | thefool: pressing the power button will give you the slide to unlock |
| 18:05.17 | thefool | Ah, much better. |
| 18:05.21 | thefool | Thanks |
| 18:05.24 | SpeedEvil | johnx: this is rather energy intensive - the motors draw ~100Kw |
| 18:05.38 | Venemo | thefool: see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9tIZwJV6w for more options |
| 18:05.51 | kerio | 100KW? |
| 18:05.52 | kerio | wtf |
| 18:06.15 | SpeedEvil | kerio: 30Kg of li-ion batteries - recent ones - can supply this for a few min |
| 18:06.16 | RST38h | prefers flying carpets though: more space |
| 18:07.37 | pupnik | SpeedEvil: there's a youtube of a hexacopter lifting a 3kg drill |
| 18:07.54 | *** join/#maemo uen (~uen@p5084DC1C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:08.34 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: yes. It's a tradeoff - exhaust velocity vs manoeverability. And exhaust velocity is a proxy for power use. |
| 18:08.43 | thefool | Venemo, thanks again |
| 18:09.17 | pupnik | SpeedEvil: i've been paper designing those since i was 6 years old :) |
| 18:09.17 | Venemo | thefool: you're welcome |
| 18:09.36 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: Sure - but this is costed, and likely to work. |
| 18:10.30 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@91.119.7.105) |
| 18:12.01 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gfBYARn-T8 cheaper! |
| 18:12.03 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@S0106001839e2f52f.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 18:13.25 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: Sure. But you can't transport it in the back of a car, pull it out, leap on it, and flyu away |
| 18:13.31 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-88Wr0NhI also very controlabale |
| 18:13.52 | pupnik | that's unstable |
| 18:14.19 | pupnik | and you can't make it fit in a car |
| 18:14.28 | pupnik | unless you section it |
| 18:15.02 | SpeedEvil | A 1.2m*1.2m board, of the above description, weighing 60Kg will fit in a car. |
| 18:15.23 | SpeedEvil | Ok - you may need to fold the seats down - but still. |
| 18:17.05 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.120.14.242) |
| 18:17.54 | SpeedEvil | And I agree it's not flyable without fly-by-wire. |
| 18:18.08 | SpeedEvil | That's what the n900 with the real-time patches is for. |
| 18:19.15 | kerio | SpeedEvil: how about just lifting the n900? |
| 18:19.32 | SpeedEvil | kerio: that's much, much cheaper. |
| 18:19.45 | kerio | add invisibility |
| 18:20.01 | kerio | and no noise |
| 18:21.35 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-109-67-11-98.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 18:21.38 | SpeedEvil | No noise is not too hard, invisibility is hard. |
| 18:21.57 | kerio | just the visible spectrum |
| 18:22.55 | SpeedEvil | LEDs on the bottom help |
| 18:24.13 | ZogG | happy new year |
| 18:24.44 | kerio | SpeedEvil: metamaterials? |
| 18:25.19 | SpeedEvil | kerio: they don't really exist in a useful form. But counterlighting has a long history |
| 18:25.34 | Venemo | so you guys are spending the new year's eve on this channel? |
| 18:26.36 | kerio | yeah, we should really go out and party on this special occasion |
| 18:26.45 | kerio | i wasn't sure that the Earth could make another roundtrip around the sun this year |
| 18:27.20 | Venemo | I'm not partying either. I just have to many todos this time |
| 18:27.39 | johnx | I'm working on finishing up some awful flu or cold or something |
| 18:27.56 | ZogG | and i party all the way =) |
| 18:30.07 | RST38h | My screen is spending the whole year at this channel! |
| 18:30.13 | RST38h | It is very patient. |
| 18:30.20 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 18:33.16 | thefool | Ok, so trying to figure out gmail contact syncing now. I used the mail for exchange sync to get all of my contacts and calendar synced yet none of my contacts are showing up under the contacts app, any ideas? |
| 18:35.15 | pupnik | unlike SpeedEvil here's someone who understands vertical flight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YgZPtlSMkA |
| 18:35.39 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK2 (~PhonicUK@host86-139-77-24.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:36.06 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: yes, I know about gyrocopters/helicopters, and the various tradeoffs between them |
| 18:38.10 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: wtf is wrong with that link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-88Wr0NhI ? It's 10s of mess for me, also says 0:10 but has 60 cuts |
| 18:38.45 | DocScrutinizer | am I supposed to watch this slomo? |
| 18:38.48 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 18:40.02 | *** join/#maemo xkr47 (xkr47@2001:14b8:141:5926:5358:9793:2384:6264) |
| 18:42.04 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 18:44.11 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@S0106001839e2f52f.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 18:46.20 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-176-151-29.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 18:47.24 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: works here sorry - youtube is a bit weird sometimes |
| 18:47.44 | pupnik | you can get a personal autogyro made in austria for ~100k euro http://www.arrow-copter.com/preiskonfigurator_standard_en.html |
| 18:49.42 | RST38h | pupnik: Just 94k euro! |
| 18:50.53 | RST38h | pupnik: Looks like they also sell lots of extras (scroll down) |
| 18:51.18 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 18:53.16 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 18:59.58 | ds3 | pupnik: and what paperwork do you need to get to fly it? |
| 19:01.08 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-143-41-60.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 19:09.18 | pupnik | ds3: such things are in flux and not easy to answer |
| 19:09.41 | ds3 | oh |
| 19:09.53 | lcuk | if you fold the paper a specific way, perhaps the license request form itself could become the flying contraction |
| 19:10.58 | ds3 | does that in it self require a license? ;) |
| 19:11.08 | pupnik | 89/01 of the gyroplane without collective pitch as defined UL - Since November 2001 NfL II. Thus, now in Germany muster a UL-tested after gyroplane BUT as individual pieces or samples and be approved. Guidelines for the training of helicopter-carrying guide are currently being prepared and approved in about 2 years in all instances. The issue of a UL-gyroplane-licenses of the German Ultralight Association is responsible. No guidelines - no licenses - who |
| 19:11.28 | lcuk | ds3, thats the thing |
| 19:11.43 | RST38h | Google Translate Fails. |
| 19:11.43 | lcuk | "I was cming in to bring it you, but a gust of wind caught me.." |
| 19:12.57 | ds3 | hehe |
| 19:13.03 | RST38h | Meanwhile: The Last Roll of Kodachrome Film Ever Will Be Developed Today |
| 19:14.14 | pupnik | cool tradition in germany is that voluntary associations manage certificaitons |
| 19:14.34 | RST38h | What about federal safety regulations though? |
| 19:15.03 | pupnik | it's really legally hard to describe - yes technical certifications exist |
| 19:15.34 | pupnik | in the 80s a bunch of rebels pretty much just invented the ultralight class |
| 19:16.01 | pupnik | probably the funnest flying has to be sailplanes - silent and challenging |
| 19:16.13 | pupnik | very popular here |
| 19:16.53 | pupnik | the other thing to look into is first-person-view model airplane flight |
| 19:17.22 | pupnik | visor + transmitter/reciever |
| 19:17.26 | RST38h | cannot believe the government has not tried to regulate this kind of thing |
| 19:17.34 | *** join/#maemo aziwoqpd (~jperry@ip68-5-94-193.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 19:17.37 | RST38h | (I mean, not the models, but the ultralights) |
| 19:17.48 | pupnik | oh they have but there's just this tradition in germany of delegating such authority to 'clubs' |
| 19:18.22 | pupnik | always a push/pull struggle over such things |
| 19:18.44 | cehteh | how much take-off space/runway do this autogyros need? |
| 19:19.10 | pupnik | depends, 0-200 meters |
| 19:19.23 | cehteh | they can make a vertical liftoff? |
| 19:19.30 | pupnik | those with 'jump capability' can |
| 19:19.37 | lcuk | RST38h, i am guessing though 0metres would lead to rather a short haircut |
| 19:19.49 | cehteh | ah ok but they need some space over ground to gain speed then |
| 19:19.55 | pupnik | youtube autogyro+jump |
| 19:19.55 | lcuk | - RST38h, |
| 19:19.56 | pupnik | yes |
| 19:20.37 | cehteh | well and you cant really hoover |
| 19:20.57 | pupnik | not so much, but 35km/h flight is no problem |
| 19:20.58 | cehteh | its more a plane without wings than a helicopter |
| 19:21.09 | pupnik | right and 1/10th the cost |
| 19:21.45 | cehteh | i tihnk old/small planes or ultralightweights are in the same range or even cheaper |
| 19:22.15 | cehteh | i guess a ultralightweight costs less than 50k Eur |
| 19:23.40 | cehteh | the most expensive things here in germany would be paperwork, license, checks, inspections, insurance and all after a few years anyways .. plus fuel |
| 19:23.41 | lcuk | also powered paragliders |
| 19:23.58 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=perzaks4eMc nice fpv footage |
| 19:24.32 | DocScrutinizer | meh, wouldn't want to go the 2300km to my holiday location in spain by paraglider |
| 19:24.37 | pupnik | i have a few hours flight training and i don't like the fear factor very much |
| 19:25.22 | lcuk | http://choicenews.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/skycar1.jpg |
| 19:25.25 | lcuk | what about this guy |
| 19:25.35 | lcuk | that added a parasail onto a beachbuggy |
| 19:25.56 | pupnik | i think he's from UK |
| 19:26.43 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCugq3gfBDY one of my very favorite FPV videos |
| 19:26.58 | pupnik | (great music too) |
| 19:28.32 | *** join/#maemo New_n900_User (~chris@c-174-48-52-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 19:28.52 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-178-002-234-133.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:29.31 | New_n900_User | So just got myself an n900 for christmas, upgraded to pr1.3 and installed a crap ton of apps. Unfortunately some of the ones I was looking forward to the most aren't working or even showing icons like smscon |
| 19:30.40 | pupnik | hey New_n900_User |
| 19:31.50 | RST38h | New: Suggestion #1: Do not install random apps, always check talk.maemo.org for possible problems |
| 19:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | always install one-by-one and test thoroughly |
| 19:32.18 | RST38h | my-maemo.org also has reviews of many apps, with screenshots |
| 19:32.19 | New_n900_User | haha, I've been stalking talk.maemo fora while now. None of the random apps were all that random. |
| 19:32.24 | DocScrutinizer | uninstall if you're not convinced |
| 19:32.27 | New_n900_User | But yeah, I should have tested one at a time... |
| 19:32.35 | lcuk | New_n900_User, just reboot |
| 19:32.41 | lcuk | which apps dont work? |
| 19:32.52 | New_n900_User | lcuk, if that fixes it I'm going to kick myself. |
| 19:33.10 | pupnik | lcuk: ++ for correct advice |
| 19:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | wtf? you installed tons of apps without a single boot? |
| 19:33.38 | RST38h | Well, he did have the initial boot, didn't he? =) |
| 19:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 19:33.47 | pupnik | well you shouldn't* have to reboot linux, but with maemo5 there are some issues with apps not appearing in the menu |
| 19:33.48 | mtnbkr | It's Linux! :) |
| 19:33.50 | DocScrutinizer | MEHEHE |
| 19:33.51 | New_n900_User | dropn900 and smscon editor |
| 19:33.58 | New_n900_User | I haven't found anything else. |
| 19:34.17 | lcuk | ok so what doesnt work about them |
| 19:34.26 | lcuk | and does the author say they are ready |
| 19:34.33 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: quite some services aren't starting correctly without a reboot |
| 19:34.33 | mtnbkr | pupnik: BTW, I now officially want that helicopter for Christmas (next year) :) |
| 19:34.38 | lcuk | or mentioning things about nuts and a vice |
| 19:34.53 | New_n900_User | Well smscon editor starts up and then shuts down without an error message and dropn900 doesn't seem to do anything when I click it's icon. |
| 19:34.57 | New_n900_User | (restarting now) |
| 19:35.15 | New_n900_User | And yes the author of both says that they are ready. |
| 19:35.18 | lcuk | you dont want to dropn900 anyway |
| 19:35.23 | lcuk | n900fly is much better app |
| 19:35.23 | New_n900_User | I don't? |
| 19:35.28 | New_n900_User | ... |
| 19:35.34 | New_n900_User | LOL |
| 19:35.44 | New_n900_User | dropn900 is a a dropbox client. |
| 19:35.58 | DocScrutinizer | is writing a quick n900blast |
| 19:36.03 | lcuk | no wonder it doesnt work whenever mine hits the floor |
| 19:36.17 | lcuk | so I should just try clicking the icon next time? |
| 19:36.36 | New_n900_User | Enh, who am I to judge? To each his own. |
| 19:37.36 | New_n900_User | And by icons not showing up I don't mean in the application list but simply that they get a little blue square when they had icons in the app manager. |
| 19:37.52 | DocScrutinizer | New_n900_User: customizing your N900 is a hobby for weeks |
| 19:38.32 | New_n900_User | uhoh... |
| 19:38.35 | DocScrutinizer | New_n900_User: each app should get a thorough test by you, including a boot and check for battery/cpu hogs and filling up any filesystems |
| 19:38.52 | New_n900_User | I shut it down and it's not coming back on. Shows Nokia and then shuts off. |
| 19:39.07 | DocScrutinizer | if you think the app has issues, uninstall it. Don't forget to use backup app frequently |
| 19:39.10 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBFE5A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:39.18 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@c-67-172-241-164.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:39.18 | lcuk | New_n900_User, thats something deep in the bowels and has been hammered and bashed into submission on more than one occasion |
| 19:39.30 | lcuk | but each time it gets hit another one pops out of whack |
| 19:39.35 | user_ | \nick epp |
| 19:39.37 | DocScrutinizer | New_n900_User: too bad, you probably installed some bootmanager, or have a drained battery |
| 19:40.49 | New_n900_User | hmm seems I installed a bootmanager but if I choose internal flash it just shuts off. |
| 19:40.58 | user_ | hey are there any other repos i should add for more cool downloads? |
| 19:41.00 | DocScrutinizer | New_n900_User: first: switch off device, remove and instert battery. then hook up to nokia wallcharger, and see if it starts flashing amber |
| 19:41.17 | New_n900_User | (It was at 76% battery when I shut it off) |
| 19:41.25 | New_n900_User | ok |
| 19:41.28 | DocScrutinizer | don't ask |
| 19:41.46 | DocScrutinizer | charging is about system as much as about battery charge |
| 19:42.19 | DocScrutinizer | odds are you end in bootmenu as well when plugging in the N900 to charger |
| 19:42.34 | New_n900_User | yeah |
| 19:42.39 | DocScrutinizer | so that's probably time for your first flashing experience |
| 19:42.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~flash |
| 19:42.43 | apt | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:42.43 | New_n900_User | (so I didn't install that right?) |
| 19:43.14 | New_n900_User | Well, already have it all downloaded from flashing the pr1.3 |
| 19:43.29 | DocScrutinizer | installing and maintaining bootmanagers is a delicate task, and esp multiboot is known to be nasty |
| 19:43.37 | DocScrutinizer | and doing havok to system |
| 19:43.41 | user_ | what extra repos should i add |
| 19:43.58 | New_n900_User | user_, I'd stick with just testing. |
| 19:44.07 | New_n900_User | user_, leave dev for the nutcases |
| 19:44.08 | DocScrutinizer | user_: if you're asking this way, my advice is: none |
| 19:45.11 | New_n900_User | DocScrutinizer, So I honestly don't think I installed a bootmanager, I just said that because it came to that boot selection screen and I figured I could have misclicked somewhere. Is that there by default? |
| 19:46.03 | New_n900_User | So I spent a longggg time installing apps, anyway to not have to reflash? |
| 19:46.22 | user_ | im no rookie to nix. im just wondering if there is any repos besides testing and dev that have cool packages |
| 19:46.33 | pupnik | RST38h: water-pump powered jetpack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0snTqLQLpBA |
| 19:46.42 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 19:46.54 | New_n900_User | user_, I don't think so, it's not like the 770,8x0s |
| 19:47.06 | DocScrutinizer | user_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras |
| 19:47.18 | New_n900_User | I must have had 20 repos installed on my 770 |
| 19:47.43 | pupnik | compulsive app collection is curable! Sign up for our deprogramming sessions today, only 300 euro for a 2 day course with room & board! |
| 19:47.53 | DocScrutinizer | user_: there's tools |
| 19:48.48 | DocScrutinizer | and there's a link to a repo install file in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 19:49.12 | DocScrutinizer | if you have a cat to burn |
| 19:49.42 | DocScrutinizer | New_n900_User: quite obviously you installed some bootmanager. There's no bootmenu usually |
| 19:50.51 | New_n900_User | Ok, wasn't sure. It came up when I had it plugged into the charger. |
| 19:50.56 | RST38h | pupnik: Yea, I know ;) |
| 19:51.34 | RST38h | goes to the closet to take his deprogramming tool |
| 19:52.51 | kerio | we also have an app to track your progress! |
| 19:53.27 | lcuk | RST38h, is that the full size deprogramming tool, or the later compact release? |
| 19:55.32 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 19:55.57 | pupnik | for dinner, we serve your choice of frozen eel, halibut or trout (after tenderizing) |
| 19:56.54 | RST38h | lcuk: It is the one with the long handle |
| 19:57.26 | lcuk | o_O I thought those had been recalled? |
| 19:57.34 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@88-149-237-61.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 19:57.46 | RST38h | I kept one just for this kind of cases |
| 19:58.09 | RST38h | + it is good for self-defence |
| 20:00.04 | New_n900_User | serious uhoh, trying to flash I get http://pastebin.com/DdLwtxHz |
| 20:00.28 | RST38h | YOu did not put your n900 into recovery mode or whatever it is called |
| 20:02.34 | New_n900_User | by holding u down when I plug it in? |
| 20:02.38 | New_n900_User | I did that... |
| 20:03.02 | New_n900_User | it showed the usb connection symbol on the top right... |
| 20:03.17 | RST38h | es |
| 20:03.24 | RST38h | hmm |
| 20:03.51 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:03.58 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 20:03.59 | New_n900_User | If you look at the pastebin it detects it at line 5 |
| 20:04.22 | New_n900_User | attempts to boot it into flash mode and then says it can't find it again. |
| 20:04.28 | Venemo | ~flashing |
| 20:04.28 | apt | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 20:05.03 | kerio | what happened to infobot? |
| 20:05.07 | kerio | :( |
| 20:05.12 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 20:05.33 | Venemo | kerio: she is now known as apt |
| 20:05.39 | New_n900_User | I'm following those directions btw. |
| 20:06.03 | jacekowski | she changed sex? |
| 20:06.13 | jacekowski | ~flashing |
| 20:06.13 | apt | somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 20:06.42 | RST38h | has always been her, didn't you know? |
| 20:06.58 | Venemo | jacekowski: everyone refers to it as "she" |
| 20:07.20 | jacekowski | it? |
| 20:07.26 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@178.126.136.100) |
| 20:07.30 | Venemo | the bot |
| 20:08.19 | lcuk | apt-get |
| 20:08.24 | lcuk | apt -get |
| 20:08.42 | FIQ|n900 | apt itude |
| 20:08.51 | Venemo | yeah lcuk, I already had that idea yesterday :P |
| 20:09.01 | lcuk | just checking |
| 20:09.20 | lcuk | although I think everytime I see someone "ls" in a channel a bot shouild actually return the results |
| 20:09.44 | FIQ|n900 | ls |
| 20:09.46 | FIQ|n900 | :( |
| 20:09.50 | SpeedEvil | horse-porn.mpg |
| 20:09.57 | Venemo | lool |
| 20:10.30 | New_n900_User | So it keeps booting me into the boot menu and won't let me flash, any ideas? |
| 20:11.29 | lcuk | ponders which things are causing such a boot blockage |
| 20:11.30 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@c-71-199-3-37.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.23 | nox- | maybe this helps? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=906515&postcount=12 |
| 20:12.52 | RST38h | lcuk: fucked up boot loader maybe? =) |
| 20:15.31 | *** join/#maemo lolcat_ (~user@77.16.70.152.tmi.telenormobil.no) |
| 20:16.27 | *** join/#maemo Rafte (~Raftman@147.84-49-115.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:18.18 | New_n900_User | http://pastebin.com/ewNr0eQW |
| 20:18.41 | New_n900_User | thanks, I tried that and I got the error above, seems like it got a bit further though. |
| 20:18.56 | lcuk | New_n900_User, reboot both systems |
| 20:19.14 | lcuk | but IDK much about this boot menu stuff |
| 20:19.26 | lcuk | nervous around it so doesnt install much like that |
| 20:19.29 | New_n900_User | I've rebooted the n900 about a dozen times and my desktop... hasn't been rebooted in 4 years. |
| 20:19.35 | lcuk | ok |
| 20:19.58 | lcuk | my ubuntu screws up and won't reflash more than a couple of times without giving odd usb errors |
| 20:20.42 | nox- | .oO(long uptimes usually just mean security holes...) |
| 20:20.43 | nox- | :) |
| 20:21.01 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@178-25-84-5-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 20:21.14 | kerio | nox-: ksplice! |
| 20:21.22 | nox- | mmh |
| 20:21.33 | nox- | how well does that work in practice? |
| 20:21.40 | kerio | dunno |
| 20:21.47 | nox- | heh ok |
| 20:21.48 | kerio | but they offer support and shit |
| 20:24.00 | mtnbkr | heh Windows Phone 7 Marketplace security cracked: http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-marketplace-app-security-cracked-proof-of-concept-video |
| 20:24.11 | jacekowski | that was quick |
| 20:24.34 | mtnbkr | jacekowski: supposedly it too ONE developer 6 hours to do too. |
| 20:25.49 | jacekowski | well, all DRMs will be cracked |
| 20:25.51 | mtnbkr | Oh Microsoft... When will you stop overstating your security, stability and TCO to the unknowing masses? |
| 20:26.19 | mtnbkr | hates Digital RESTRICTION management |
| 20:26.27 | jacekowski | have you seen fail0verflow presentation about ps3? |
| 20:26.30 | *** join/#maemo New_n900_User (~New_n900_@c-174-48-52-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 20:26.38 | jacekowski | piracy is evil |
| 20:26.38 | mtnbkr | jacekowski: yeah, that was/is awesome too. |
| 20:26.45 | New_n900_User | keep getting: Write failed after 0 bytes |
| 20:26.45 | New_n900_User | usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable |
| 20:26.49 | jacekowski | but drm as way to fight piracy is even worse |
| 20:27.06 | ptl | Yeah, hijacking ships and mass-murdering its crew is quite evil |
| 20:27.15 | mtnbkr | Arg! |
| 20:27.35 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: now watch and marvel |
| 20:27.36 | *** join/#maemo kkb1101 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:27.54 | DocScrutinizer | apt: info wget |
| 20:28.11 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:28.12 | ptl | copyrigh infringement, though, might be even considered a valid act of civil disobedience |
| 20:28.13 | DocScrutinizer | apt: +info wget |
| 20:28.41 | RST38h | o! |
| 20:29.20 | RST38h | Doc: Is it swapping? =) |
| 20:29.42 | kerio | jacekowski: there's nothing scarier than a bunch of hackers you just pissed off |
| 20:29.42 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you know debian repo lists are loooong |
| 20:29.54 | New_n900_User | might I have better luck on a windows computer? |
| 20:29.55 | RST38h | Seems to have heard me and reacted |
| 20:30.03 | RST38h | You will might |
| 20:30.08 | RST38h | s/will/well |
| 20:30.14 | New_n900_User | Because right now it looks like I actually manager to brick this thing. |
| 20:30.19 | New_n900_User | *managed |
| 20:30.22 | jacekowski | kerio: there is |
| 20:30.32 | jacekowski | kerio: even more hackers you pissed off |
| 20:30.36 | kerio | heh |
| 20:30.48 | kerio | i was going to say a bunch of gangsters you just pissed off |
| 20:31.07 | jacekowski | nah you can hide from them |
| 20:31.35 | ShadowJK | If you're trying to flash and it enters bootmenu, you've missed the opprtunity to put it into flashing mode, I'd think. It's no longer listening for the flasher |
| 20:31.49 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 20:32.11 | DocScrutinizer | plug in the shut down device *after* flasher says "waiting..." |
| 20:32.14 | Venemo | bootmenu sux. |
| 20:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | also keep in minf it will refuse to flash if battery isn't completely (err sufficiently) charged |
| 20:33.41 | DocScrutinizer | also known as flat-battery-flashing-deadlock |
| 20:34.57 | DocScrutinizer | New_n900_User: so I suggest you try to keep battery consumption down to a minimum |
| 20:35.07 | DocScrutinizer | until you managed to flash the thing |
| 20:35.43 | *** join/#maemo Raftman (~Raftman@147.84-49-115.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:35.44 | DocScrutinizer | there's no way to charge battery with N900 as long as you don't have a working system |
| 20:36.12 | jacekowski | you could start coldflash |
| 20:36.18 | jacekowski | but instead of using nolo |
| 20:36.26 | jacekowski | tell it to load simple program that will start charging |
| 20:36.42 | jacekowski | you only need like 0.5s worth of charge in battery |
| 20:36.45 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, that would work if we had such a simple program |
| 20:38.21 | ShadowJK | I hope this bootmenu fiasco isn't in extras |
| 20:38.25 | DocScrutinizer | some 40 lines of assembler would be sufficient, but we don't have them yet |
| 20:39.37 | ShadowJK | well, alot of dubious sounding crap turns up with apt-cache search boot anyway :) |
| 20:39.48 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 20:39.55 | DocScrutinizer | I bet it does |
| 20:40.10 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:40.31 | DocScrutinizer | for New_n900_User's case we don't even know which app it's been he installed |
| 20:40.47 | ShadowJK | I really wish it was either fixed or kept out of extras |
| 20:40.59 | DocScrutinizer | yea sure |
| 20:41.16 | DocScrutinizer | first identify it |
| 20:41.20 | ShadowJK | all those things that undoubtedly have a "do this or else it bricks" thread on tmo |
| 20:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | then check if it's really in extras, and if it's really broken or this has been pebkac |
| 20:42.20 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:42.33 | DocScrutinizer | multiboot for sure should vanish from god's great nets |
| 20:43.27 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@32.172.255.206) |
| 20:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | flashing kernel en passant while booting isn't a nice idea |
| 20:44.57 | DocScrutinizer | it could run out of battery while flashing, user could decide to abort, all sorts of mess can happen and "brick" your device in a blink, when multiboot does those nasty things |
| 20:46.08 | DocScrutinizer | that's stickly a hack to either thrill or roll up toes' nails of hardcore devels, but never should reach end user |
| 20:46.20 | DocScrutinizer | strictly* |
| 20:47.06 | DocScrutinizer | not even in devel |
| 20:50.48 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i think it will try again |
| 20:50.51 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: on next boot |
| 20:51.01 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: because flashing of kernel is done by nolo |
| 20:51.53 | DocScrutinizer | if the kernel flashing process gets aborted, you'll end up with a non-booting system that also won't retry to flash kernel |
| 20:52.47 | jacekowski | how |
| 20:52.52 | DocScrutinizer | or did I miss some nice little bit? |
| 20:52.54 | jacekowski | if flashing is done before even kernel boot |
| 20:53.02 | jacekowski | there could be no kernel at all |
| 20:53.11 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ??? |
| 20:53.12 | jacekowski | as in you start flashing from phone |
| 20:53.28 | jacekowski | what flasher does then is move it somewhere on nand |
| 20:53.30 | DocScrutinizer | we're talking about autonomous or on-system flashing here |
| 20:53.34 | jacekowski | and yes |
| 20:53.48 | jacekowski | then you wipe current kernel from nand |
| 20:53.52 | jacekowski | and reboot |
| 20:53.57 | jacekowski | and as far as i know |
| 20:54.00 | jacekowski | phone will still boot |
| 20:54.11 | jacekowski | because nolo will see that it's supposed to flash new kernel |
| 20:54.13 | jacekowski | and will do it |
| 20:54.20 | DocScrutinizer | wut? |
| 20:54.37 | jacekowski | all flashing is done by nolo |
| 20:54.40 | Venemo | interesting that you're talking about this on new year's eve :) |
| 20:54.40 | jacekowski | and only by nolo |
| 20:54.40 | RST38h | 6 minutes to NY |
| 20:54.45 | DocScrutinizer | nolo just hands through the bytes from flasher |
| 20:54.58 | jacekowski | yes |
| 20:55.24 | DocScrutinizer | flasher runs either on your laptop or - here - in a booted up maemo system |
| 20:55.36 | jacekowski | yes |
| 20:55.46 | jacekowski | but on system flasher is different |
| 20:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | if there's no kernel in nand, how is maemo supposed to boot to run flasher? |
| 20:56.46 | jacekowski | flashing is done by nolo |
| 20:56.58 | jacekowski | after flasher tells it to flash |
| 20:57.23 | jacekowski | on system flasher moves kernel to special area that nolo reads on next boot |
| 20:57.28 | jacekowski | and then does real flashing |
| 20:58.16 | DocScrutinizer | where is that special area? what's the 'flag' NOLO reads on next boot to know it has to flash kernel from that area? |
| 20:58.48 | Venemo | I would guess that kind of information is not disclosed |
| 20:59.01 | jacekowski | let me get my other laptop out |
| 20:59.22 | DocScrutinizer | I would guess jacekowski has his own sources of info, when he claims such things |
| 20:59.59 | SpeedEvil | wonders if jacekowski has a cellar with a secure door. |
| 21:02.22 | DocScrutinizer | well, I feel like heading out to have a beer and my fair share of madness in the streets |
| 21:02.34 | SpeedEvil | Good luck! |
| 21:02.40 | DocScrutinizer | still 2h left over here |
| 21:02.41 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 21:02.53 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I wünsche dir a gutes neues Jahr! |
| 21:03.06 | DocScrutinizer | ich euch auch :-D |
| 21:03.09 | Venemo | (hope I spelled well, the lessons were long ago) |
| 21:03.10 | Venemo | :) |
| 21:04.27 | Venemo | whoops, typo found |
| 21:04.33 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: ich wünsche dir a gutes neues Jahr! |
| 21:04.38 | Venemo | 'ich' and not 'I' :P |
| 21:09.07 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:09.10 | *** join/#maemo xkr47 (xkr47@host-94-101-4-106.igua.fi) |
| 21:16.03 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~quassel@GYZCCXXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:18.01 | *** join/#maemo ferdna_ (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 21:18.15 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:18.16 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki_ (~quassel@KMMMDCCC.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:27.48 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@178-25-84-5-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 21:28.21 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~rm_you@c-76-28-206-239.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.55 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@32.172.23.251) |
| 21:40.08 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:50.01 | trumee | MohammadAG: Regarding fmtx, what does it mean, "I modified it to say off and turn on the FMTX when it's held, but it uses system() so I won't share it." |
| 21:50.24 | trumee | MohammadAG: what is wrong with using system() ? |
| 21:50.44 | trumee | MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=886157&postcount=19 |
| 21:50.58 | *** join/#maemo timeless_xchat (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 21:51.47 | ptl | does anyone have a bullet-list with the reasons of 'why ipv6 is better for mobile phones than ipv4'? Discounting the number of addresses. |
| 21:51.59 | kerio | it's... not |
| 21:52.10 | ptl | not??? why not? |
| 21:52.39 | kerio | why? |
| 21:54.27 | ptl | I do not know enough of ipv6 to say it is or it isn't. This is just what I am trying to find out. But everyone from google seems to agree that ipv6 is better. |
| 21:54.46 | ptl | I am assuming it is better and trying to find out why |
| 21:54.55 | ptl | Please don't confuse me further :P |
| 21:56.55 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:59.32 | SpeedEvil | ipv6 is needed |
| 21:59.49 | SpeedEvil | It is not - in the current state of the internet - better |
| 22:00.30 | SpeedEvil | If we were to take away internet access from the stupid people, then the IPV4 address exhaustion problems would be fixed. |
| 22:00.53 | SpeedEvil | s/stupid/stupid annoying/ |
| 22:01.48 | pupnik | Happy New Year! Check out an INCREDIBLE 4096-byte directX9 demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5CTFMuFvb0 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938 |
| 22:02.15 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 22:05.17 | ptl | SpeedEvil: and that's it? there are no real, deep differences from ipv6 that make it much better to mobiles than ipv4? |
| 22:05.24 | ptl | don't say that, my world will crumble. |
| 22:05.50 | RST38h | no |
| 22:06.08 | SpeedEvil | ptl: As I understand it, yes, in principle there are features of IPV6 that if implemented widely over the whole internet would be useful for mobiles. |
| 22:06.17 | SpeedEvil | ptl: But we're not there yet. |
| 22:06.29 | ptl | do you know at least a couple of these features? |
| 22:07.06 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - not doing this now - going to eat chicken. |
| 22:07.10 | Venemo | pupnik: nice vid. |
| 22:07.10 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@p54B2A1E8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:07.16 | Venemo | pupnik: happy new year to you too |
| 22:07.39 | ptl | happy new year to you guys. Here we still have 4 hours to go. :) |
| 22:07.48 | ptl | SpeedEvil: good idea, will do that too.= |
| 22:07.49 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK2 (~PhonicUK@host86-139-77-24.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:08.39 | Venemo | ptl: google and wikipedia are your friends |
| 22:09.21 | ptl | I swear it, I've tried |
| 22:09.34 | ptl | i am asking here as a last resource |
| 22:10.05 | ptl | Well, almost last resource. If I don't get the answer I'll delve into some long texts to see if I can find it out. |
| 22:10.06 | Venemo | ptl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipv6#Comparison_to_IPv4 |
| 22:10.41 | Venemo | ptl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipv6#Mobility |
| 22:10.49 | Venemo | ptl: it took 1 minute to find these |
| 22:11.12 | ptl | lemme check |
| 22:11.52 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK3 (~PhonicUK@host86-139-77-24.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:12.28 | BCMM | Venemo: does that mean that one could be able to move between wlan and 3g? |
| 22:12.33 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@200-193-163-21.ctame704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 22:12.54 | *** part/#maemo marciom (~marciom@200-193-163-21.ctame704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 22:13.25 | Venemo | BCMM: provided that you have ipv6 and support for this feautre in the 3g network and the wifi network, then in theory yes |
| 22:13.45 | Venemo | however I dunno the details. I didn't know about this feaure 5 minutes ago :P |
| 22:14.01 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:15.28 | ptl | Venemo: anyway, there are lots of differences that I knew of, but on this particular page the only thing quoted for mobile advantagens is a small advantage of mobile ipv6 over mobile ipv4: |
| 22:15.34 | ptl | "Unlike mobile IPv4, mobile IPv6 avoids triangular routing and is therefore as efficient as native IPv6. IPv6 routers may also support network mobility which allows entire subnets to move to a new router connection point without renumbering." |
| 22:16.05 | ptl | thanks for the reference. It helped. |
| 22:16.37 | ptl | I am starting to think that there is not really much more than this. |
| 22:16.52 | BCMM | presumably, by "triangular routing", they mean that mobile ipv4 has everything going to the device go through a machine with a fixed network location? |
| 22:16.55 | Venemo | what makes you think that the other points in the comparison are not advantageous to mobile use cases? |
| 22:18.00 | BCMM | the issue of address space has become particularly relevant to mobiles |
| 22:18.17 | BCMM | since mobile networks are the ISPs most likely to NAT their networks |
| 22:18.34 | Venemo | BCMM: agreed |
| 22:18.37 | BCMM | ipv6 would remove that necessity |
| 22:18.53 | Venemo | BCMM: my comment was intended to ptl |
| 22:19.03 | BCMM | ptl? |
| 22:19.12 | Venemo | yes. |
| 22:19.18 | BCMM | some say it's a good thing, because you don't waste battery on people scanning your phone, but ipv6 also makes it impractical to scan random addresses |
| 22:19.25 | Venemo | [23:16] <ptl> I am starting to think that there is not really much more than this. ---> this |
| 22:19.42 | BCMM | having a botnet scan the entire ipv4 address space is feasible; this will never work with ipv6 |
| 22:19.54 | Venemo | :D |
| 22:20.02 | ptl | points: 'larger address space' - the most obvious. but I was asking to 'discount' it. 'multicast' - what is the specific advantage for mobiles? I can't see. 'stateless autoconfiguration' - this one might be a good point of discussion, but it would require special help by using a mobile ipv6 tunnel, isn't it? |
| 22:20.06 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: Never say never |
| 22:20.27 | ptl | 'mandatory support for network layer security' - doesn't seem to be much advantageous to mobile phones. |
| 22:20.45 | Venemo | ptl: so security is not important for phones. right. |
| 22:20.46 | ptl | 'simplified process by routers' - might help on mobile ipv6, indirectly. |
| 22:20.47 | Venemo | lol |
| 22:20.51 | ptl | I didn't say that |
| 22:21.00 | ptl | I should have mentioned: 'specifically' |
| 22:21.04 | BCMM | SpeedEvil: by the time we have colonised enough planets to scratch the surface of the address space, we'll need a more delay-tolerant system that the current internet |
| 22:21.17 | ptl | 'options extensibility' and 'jumbograms' - doesn't seem useful. |
| 22:21.27 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~quassel@ZMDCV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:21.29 | ptl | Lemme rephrase my question then: |
| 22:21.55 | BCMM | ptl: having your own IP address will be advantageous |
| 22:22.06 | BCMM | for a start, video chat will suddenly get much, much simpler |
| 22:22.12 | ptl | are there any features or architecture in ipv6 that can be said to specifically benefit mobile devices, and not so much regular devices like desktop computers and servers? |
| 22:22.24 | ptl | BCMM: but that falls into larger address space |
| 22:22.26 | ptl | yes, I agree |
| 22:22.34 | Venemo | ptl: the answer to that is probably no |
| 22:24.14 | BCMM | ptl: so far, the address space issue is affecting mobiles worst of all |
| 22:24.45 | BCMM | though if we carry on like this, NAT ISPs will become the norm |
| 22:24.45 | ptl | it stateless autoconfiguration used in mobile ipv6? |
| 22:25.48 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@Maemo/community/contributor/Andy80) |
| 22:26.13 | Venemo | what's wrong with NAT? |
| 22:26.55 | ds3 | NAT doesn't allow for listeners unless specifically setup for it |
| 22:27.13 | BCMM | practically, it breaks stuff and requires endless working around. philosophically, it makes the internet one-way like a TV |
| 22:27.16 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 22:27.20 | jacekowski | and who needs listeners |
| 22:27.30 | lardman | re |
| 22:27.36 | BCMM | there are all sorts of reasons to listen to ports |
| 22:27.41 | lardman | wonders what necroplayer is |
| 22:27.46 | BCMM | like anything involving p2p communication |
| 22:27.59 | ptl | Not only that, NAT spoils ICMP and other protocols too. |
| 22:28.13 | BCMM | bouncing stuff off some server that is probably in a different country is OK for IM, but terrible for video chat |
| 22:28.44 | BCMM | also, you might want to SSH to your phone for any number of reasons |
| 22:29.41 | ds3 | UDP does not work reliably with NAT either :P |
| 22:29.56 | Venemo | ok, thx :) |
| 22:29.58 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:30.03 | ds3 | for many apps, NAT is required to snoop and be invasive |
| 22:33.56 | jacekowski | nat on mobile phones is a must |
| 22:34.06 | jacekowski | otherwise you would have all shit on internet sending you crap |
| 22:34.12 | jacekowski | and your phone would never sleep |
| 22:36.32 | SpeedEvil | In principle, some sort of authorisation would also work. |
| 22:37.06 | SpeedEvil | So someone could sign packets with a key you've given them, and tehy would be passed by the router |
| 22:37.28 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:38.41 | ds3 | my phone works fine w/o NAT |
| 22:40.09 | jacekowski | it just eats battery like mad |
| 22:40.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 22:42.48 | RST38h | Speed: that is called "ip addressing scheme" :) |
| 22:43.05 | ShadowJK | I don't get too much traffic from the internet usually |
| 22:43.07 | RST38h | Not for your subnet -> you are not getting it |
| 22:43.13 | ShadowJK | Only about twice a month someone tries bruteforce ssh |
| 22:43.19 | New_n900_User | So the TV-out is that supposed to "just work" when I plug the cables in? Or is there somepace I have to turn it on? |
| 22:43.19 | RST38h | hehe |
| 22:43.35 | RST38h | Should work, but do set pal/ntsc |
| 22:43.45 | New_n900_User | US is NTSC right? |
| 22:43.46 | RST38h | Have you managed reflashing poor device? |
| 22:43.55 | RST38h | yes, US is NTSC |
| 22:43.56 | New_n900_User | Yes, just recently. |
| 22:44.00 | RST38h | cool |
| 22:44.12 | New_n900_User | Hmm, well TV out is not working. |
| 22:44.21 | New_n900_User | And it also seems that sound is only coming from one headphone. |
| 22:44.55 | RST38h | wrong cable? |
| 22:45.00 | New_n900_User | I'm beginning to be quite scared that there may be an issue with the headphone jack. |
| 22:45.09 | New_n900_User | It's the one that came with it... |
| 22:45.11 | RST38h | use the cable included with the phone |
| 22:45.32 | New_n900_User | I know the iphone ones are not compatible. |
| 22:45.35 | BCMM | New_n900_User: just in case, sure the pins are connected in the right order? |
| 22:45.41 | BCMM | New_n900_User: i mean, the three plugs |
| 22:45.46 | New_n900_User | Yep |
| 22:46.02 | BCMM | yeah, apple uses a basically identical connector, with the pins rearranged because they gotta be different |
| 22:46.13 | New_n900_User | Even if they weren't I should at least get sound or video. I get nothing. |
| 22:46.44 | ds3 | the TV out seems to want to see the 75ohm termination |
| 22:47.02 | New_n900_User | meaning? |
| 22:48.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | New_n900_User: firmly insert the plug, make sure it's seated completely |
| 22:48.56 | BCMM | there's a way to ask the phone what it thinks is in the AV port, isn't there? |
| 22:49.01 | BCMM | can't remember it though |
| 22:49.08 | BCMM | something dbus or sysfs |
| 22:49.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | ysfs |
| 22:51.00 | New_n900_User | I've done that, and even tried pulling it out a bit. |
| 22:51.23 | New_n900_User | Just tried a different pair of headphones too and same issue with sound coming from only one ear. |
| 22:51.49 | BCMM | cat /sys/devices/platform/nokia-av/type |
| 22:52.05 | BCMM | oh; that really does sound like the port is dodgy |
| 22:52.24 | johnx | also, if you insert the plug slow enough it's possible to confuse the N900 about what got plugged in |
| 22:52.27 | SpeedEvil | New_n900_User: Do you appen to have te AV lead - I forget what you said |
| 22:52.39 | New_n900_User | AV lead? |
| 22:52.54 | New_n900_User | I have the AV cables that came with it. |
| 22:53.43 | SpeedEvil | do you ave a suitable TV to plug it into? |
| 22:53.48 | SpeedEvil | Or audio system? |
| 22:54.11 | New_n900_User | Yes and yes. |
| 22:54.22 | New_n900_User | Just unplugged my wii to plug it in. |
| 22:54.42 | New_n900_User | Also BCMM did you mean for me to run that with the AV cables plugged in? |
| 22:55.12 | SpeedEvil | New_n900_User: sorry - do you also get only one channel on the audio plug? |
| 22:55.21 | SpeedEvil | on the AV plug |
| 22:58.44 | New_n900_User | Actually I don't get any audio with the AV plug. |
| 22:59.11 | New_n900_User | Let me fool around a bit more might be an issue with the tv sound system being set low somewhere. |
| 22:59.28 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs15.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 23:00.46 | New_n900_User | Hmm, ok getting sound, can't tell if it's one channel or two. |
| 23:01.05 | New_n900_User | I'd like to say one because that would be consistent with the headphones but... |
| 23:01.13 | BugBlue | Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! |
| 23:01.45 | New_n900_User | Ok, confirmed it's just the right side. |
| 23:02.00 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:02.38 | New_n900_User | (with the AV plug into the TV) |
| 23:06.20 | SpeedEvil | New_n900_User: Ok - I'd go with a socket failure then. |
| 23:06.34 | SpeedEvil | New_n900_User: I'd phone up nokia care in your country, and see what your position is |
| 23:06.44 | New_n900_User | Hmm, self fix or hope I have a warranty on it? |
| 23:06.58 | New_n900_User | ok |
| 23:08.23 | ShadowJK | I'd be pressing for DOA replacement when it's broken so soon (it might have been broken when you took it out of the box, right?) |
| 23:11.23 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:12.13 | New_n900_User | Well, yeah. But I bought it on ebay. |
| 23:12.17 | New_n900_User | Used. |
| 23:12.48 | ShadowJK | oh :) |
| 23:13.08 | jacekowski | DOA |
| 23:13.11 | jacekowski | give it back to seller |
| 23:13.11 | ShadowJK | There's an imei checker on nokia care website somewhere :/ |
| 23:13.27 | jacekowski | did he mention that problem on auction |
| 23:15.12 | New_n900_User | Grr, so I'm talking to an indian nokia rep who is convinced that the issue is the headset... |
| 23:20.08 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki_ (~quassel@ZYMDCCCLXXVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 23:22.07 | Venemo | clinks glasses with everyone |
| 23:22.36 | johnx | cheers :D |
| 23:23.26 | ShadowJK | New_n900_User, so you've tried with the original headset, you've tried with TV-out, and hey, if you have some regular headphones, try with those too |
| 23:23.32 | ShadowJK | 3 different ones should be enough you'd think :/ |
| 23:23.42 | ShadowJK | original NOKIA headset, good to point out to those ppl :-) |
| 23:27.18 | New_n900_User | ShadowJK, yep, they want to send me a new headset lol |
| 23:27.39 | New_n900_User | And yeah, I've tried with regular headphones too. |
| 23:27.43 | New_n900_User | They don't seem to get that lol |
| 23:28.17 | ShadowJK | So do the headphones work OK in your computer? |
| 23:28.25 | New_n900_User | On a plus side the n900 qualifies me for "preferential service" apparently. |
| 23:28.45 | toggles | you prefer to be raped |
| 23:29.56 | New_n900_User | ShadowJK, haven't tried, but I'd assume so. |
| 23:30.58 | New_n900_User | yep, they work. |
| 23:31.03 | New_n900_User | Pretty good sound quality too. |
| 23:33.39 | Milhouse | Community SSU now requires PC Suite to complete installation? What's that about - anyone know? |
| 23:34.28 | ShadowJK | I guess I missed community ssu for n900 |
| 23:34.52 | pupnik_ | new year should be floating-point -- so we can do a wave of firecrackers east to west |
| 23:34.58 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 23:36.08 | Milhouse | ShadowJK: So far not sure what benefit it serves, all I've had so far are updates to the Community SSU (the most recent now unable to install without also installing PC Suite on a Windows PC)... I thought the Community SSU was supposed to provide updates for the apps. |
| 23:36.51 | ShadowJK | for what apps |
| 23:36.57 | Milhouse | Modest etc. |
| 23:37.06 | Milhouse | At least, that's what I thought. |
| 23:37.22 | ShadowJK | I knew there was a N8x0 community ssu |
| 23:37.26 | ShadowJK | didn't know there was a N900 one |
| 23:38.25 | jacekowski | heh |
| 23:38.32 | Milhouse | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/63684?nohighlight=1#63684 |
| 23:38.55 | ShadowJK | ah, testing |
| 23:39.40 | Milhouse | Needless to say, I'll now pass on updating with the latest Community SSU package as it doesn't seem to be providing any actual benefits so far. Or maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick. |
| 23:40.15 | Milhouse | ShadowJK: Well, that's the first reference I found using my Google-fu. It's not got high visibility, but I'm sure it was discussed on t.m.o somewhere |
| 23:43.17 | Milhouse | More N900-specific SSU discussion here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-December/004587.html |
| 23:44.21 | Milhouse | Buggered if I'll be installing Nokia PC Suite to finish the package install though. |
| 23:47.40 | radic | Frohes neues Jahr / Happy new year >> http://bravo.hopto.org/~radic/10-11/ |
| 23:48.09 | ShadowJK | N900 asking for PC suite is usually a sign of conflicting packages |
| 23:48.31 | Milhouse | Yeah, conflicts are all to do with Hildon |
| 23:49.09 | Milhouse | Summary for the package says "This Maemo update requires Nokia PC Suite on your PC for installation. Connect deive to PC via USB cable blah blah blah" |
| 23:50.20 | Milhouse | On the "Problems" tab it lists the following packages as missing: hildon-home (>=0.3.71-2), hildon-desktop (>=1:2.2.142-4), hildon-status-menu (>=0.3.40-2) |
| 23:50.33 | Milhouse | Presumably the Community SSU package is just badly configured? |
| 23:51.01 | jacekowski | no |
| 23:51.14 | jacekowski | it's just hildon that requires packages that ssu uninstalls |
| 23:51.19 | jacekowski | but it has to do it to work |
| 23:51.25 | Milhouse | so what's the solution? |
| 23:51.39 | jacekowski | stop using HAM |
| 23:51.43 | jacekowski | it's slow crap |
| 23:51.47 | Milhouse | aha... try apt? |
| 23:52.01 | Milhouse | oh, totally agree with you there |
| 23:52.35 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:52.38 | Milhouse | I normally use apt, but for ssu and system related updates tend to go the achingly slow HAM route |
| 23:53.07 | ShadowJK | apt isn't for normal users for sure, tends to blow stuff up |
| 23:53.18 | Venemo | goodbye guys :) |
| 23:53.21 | Milhouse | i do hope the app manager in MeeGo will be orders of magnitude better than HAM... |
| 23:53.28 | Milhouse | night Venemo - happy new year. |
| 23:53.51 | Venemo | thanks Milhouse, same to you too |
| 23:53.56 | jacekowski | Milhouse: it won't |
| 23:54.03 | Venemo | Milhouse: try the "faster app manager", or use apt-get |
| 23:54.05 | jacekowski | Milhouse: it will be based on even worse yum |
| 23:54.17 | Venemo | NOOO! |
| 23:54.20 | Milhouse | Venemo: i have FAP installed also, but that's still quite slow :) |
| 23:54.29 | Venemo | jacekowski: don't spread lies |
| 23:54.30 | Milhouse | jacekowski: That's goint to be a disaster then |
| 23:54.37 | Milhouse | s/goint/going/ |
| 23:54.38 | Venemo | MeeGo doesn't use yum |
| 23:54.50 | Milhouse | Venom: MeeGo uses Zypper |
| 23:54.58 | Venemo | I'm not 'venom', sorry |
| 23:55.03 | jacekowski | still, it's crap |
| 23:55.10 | Venemo | but right, it uses zypper which is faster than yum |
| 23:55.13 | Venemo | anyway, byebye |
| 23:55.46 | Milhouse | Venemo: Sorry :) |
| 23:56.57 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:58.46 | *** join/#maemo peetah (~peetah@cha92-9-82-236-202-86.fbx.proxad.net) |
