| 00:00.06 | alterego | Heh |
| 00:00.23 | DocScrutinizer | blankets? :-o |
| 00:01.16 | DocScrutinizer | is cursing his strictly technical English |
| 00:01.32 | DocScrutinizer | I know what a blanket is, though |
| 00:01.49 | lcuk | http://maxcdn.fooyoh.com/files/attach/images/591/289/399/004/pigs-in-blankets.jpg |
| 00:01.52 | DocScrutinizer | just I think it's probably not quite tasty |
| 00:02.31 | DocScrutinizer | THIS looks tasty |
| 00:02.38 | alterego | Well, it all seems to be working still :) |
| 00:02.42 | FireStorm| | lol lcuk, mum managed to bur them!!!! and i made her cook some new ones! |
| 00:02.58 | lcuk | tracy bought two packs a couple of weeks ago |
| 00:03.10 | lcuk | because she knew once I saw them I would want them cooking before xmas |
| 00:03.19 | FireStorm| | ended up with proper susages and proper bacon!!! |
| 00:03.24 | FireStorm| | haha brillant |
| 00:03.54 | *** join/#maemo daxt_ (~dan@112.135.73.244) |
| 00:03.57 | lcuk | anyway, I shall go raid the fridge for some grub \o |
| 00:04.03 | FireStorm| | to be fair though it was the first time we cooked in new kitchen, all neff appliances. Induction hob, and 2 thermo somethign ovens! |
| 00:04.04 | DocScrutinizer | frowns at the technically poor vacuum in his fridge |
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| 00:07.22 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ?? |
| 00:07.44 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, ? |
| 00:07.52 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: interested in doing a new version of h-e-n next days? |
| 00:07.54 | MohammadAG | oh |
| 00:07.56 | MohammadAG | h-e-n |
| 00:08.07 | MohammadAG | Sure, I should fix the open filemanager option |
| 00:08.45 | DocScrutinizer | I'd like to augment some of the scripts, and even tackle the mount issue on a root level (udev) |
| 00:09.37 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^_ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:09.50 | DocScrutinizer | to start with, I have a better version of booston.sh collecting dust here since weeks |
| 00:11.05 | MohammadAG | thinks he should update git |
| 00:12.48 | DocScrutinizer | h-e-n.git - a good plan to update that |
| 00:14.06 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I also have a few ideas about beautifying the GUI |
| 00:14.06 | FireStorm| | bloody wireless is so shit in this house :( |
| 00:14.56 | DocScrutinizer | FireStorm|: check AP channel - there might be lots of collisions or noise (microwave oven etc) |
| 00:15.28 | DocScrutinizer | switching e.g 1 -> 9 is sometimes doing miracles |
| 00:15.48 | FireStorm| | DocScrutinizer yer i know, i'm sat next ot it and it' says i got a weak signal! |
| 00:16.00 | FireStorm| | maybe time to do a firmware upgade, i think ti's about 8 years old! |
| 00:16.37 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, concepts with paint accepted :P |
| 00:17.19 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.8.185) |
| 00:17.30 | DocScrutinizer | err? paint as in "our app needs more color"? or are you asking for drawings of the new GUI? |
| 00:17.53 | FireStorm| | an app that wants a gui drawn in paint is a failure!!!!!! |
| 00:18.11 | FireStorm| | paint is for when ur stuck at bored n you draw random pictures, not designing app gui's lol! |
| 00:18.40 | DocScrutinizer | paint is for home improvement |
| 00:18.49 | FireStorm| | lol |
| 00:18.49 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, however you want to push your concepts :P |
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| 00:19.27 | DocScrutinizer | *ABSTRACT* descriptions. I'll compose a formula in tex |
| 00:20.31 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe I like to have a bit of fun and get my hands dirty with Qt designer and C sourcecode |
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| 00:21.27 | DocScrutinizer | the weird thing about Qt GUI: it's really hard to publish patches for that |
| 00:21.47 | alterego | 9,256 lines in Columbus. |
| 00:21.59 | alterego | We need moar |
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| 00:24.50 | FireStorm| | hmm bed or some GTA 4 |
| 00:25.10 | timeless_mbp | curses |
| 00:25.15 | timeless_mbp | this is so bloody annoying |
| 00:25.46 | MohammadAG | I so hate this piece of shit 8433 mohammad 20 0 304m 57m 16m S 38 1.5 12:31.21 npviewer.bin |
| 00:25.48 | DocScrutinizer | GTA04? man, there's not even been GTA03, except those 3 prototypes |
| 00:26.12 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 00:26.14 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: what platform are you on? |
| 00:26.16 | DocScrutinizer | whatever npviever might be |
| 00:26.23 | timeless_mbp | that' nppluginwrapper, |
| 00:26.24 | FireStorm| | http://www.gta4.net/ |
| 00:26.29 | timeless_mbp | which is third party crap |
| 00:26.38 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, x64, ubuntu |
| 00:26.38 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, flash |
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| 00:27.00 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: it's a plugin wrapper |
| 00:27.05 | FireStorm| | :d |
| 00:27.06 | DocScrutinizer | X-O°°°$ |
| 00:27.07 | timeless_mbp | for idiots who insist on using a 64bit browser |
| 00:27.24 | alterego | coughs |
| 00:27.25 | FireStorm| | but i do know hwere ur coming from and red dead redeption is shit! |
| 00:27.26 | timeless_mbp | because having wider pointers really helps w/ browser perf |
| 00:27.54 | DocScrutinizer | YEAH |
| 00:28.02 | SpeedEvil | I could believe that flash could easily use more than 4G |
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| 00:28.09 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, it's not my fault the OS is x64 :P |
| 00:28.18 | DocScrutinizer | PETAbyte address range for framebuffer :-P |
| 00:28.22 | ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, well with 32 bit browser it crashes when it grows to 4G or so :-) |
| 00:28.23 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: it's your fault for using a 64bit browser instead of a 32bit one |
| 00:28.28 | CutMeOwnThroat | of course... only way you can address all those tons of memory that a browser needs |
| 00:28.34 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: generally 3gb |
| 00:28.38 | ShadowJK | right |
| 00:28.45 | ShadowJK | npviewer.bin is awesome. |
| 00:28.48 | timeless_mbp | but if you're trying to grow a browser to 3gb, you're doing something wrong |
| 00:28.59 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, always blame the user |
| 00:29.02 | CutMeOwnThroat | what do you mean .... "trying" |
| 00:29.05 | ShadowJK | flash doesn't crash the entire browser, and when flash does crash, you suddenly gain 500M ram! :-) |
| 00:29.15 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: the user is always wrong |
| 00:29.19 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: err |
| 00:29.26 | timeless_mbp | browsers don't run flash in process |
| 00:29.32 | timeless_mbp | so flash gets its own 3gb of ram to burn |
| 00:29.44 | ShadowJK | it did the last time I used it without npviewer, iirc :( |
| 00:29.45 | timeless_mbp | and when it manages to burn them (unlikely), it doesn't kill the host |
| 00:29.52 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: that was when? |
| 00:30.01 | timeless_mbp | looks for the release date of ff3.6.2 |
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| 00:30.13 | timeless_mbp | mar 22, 2010 |
| 00:30.23 | timeless_mbp | so... 9months ago |
| 00:30.24 | timeless_mbp | right. |
| 00:30.31 | timeless_mbp | you clearly don't use flash |
| 00:30.37 | timeless_mbp | which means you aren't one to talk :) |
| 00:30.38 | ShadowJK | I was going to say 4 years ago when I switched to 64 bit :-) |
| 00:30.51 | alterego | contemplates using the accelerometer to detect movement .. |
| 00:31.08 | timeless_mbp | contemplates shooting a merge algorithm |
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| 00:31.18 | alterego | I want to stop the compass moving so eratically when you're stationary. |
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| 00:31.39 | timeless_mbp | sells alterego a 'from' |
| 00:32.22 | ShadowJK | Coolest thing is I can kill the npviewer.bin processes to kill all the rogue plugins that sit eating CPU in the background :D |
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| 00:32.44 | SpeedEvil | killall plugin-container works on 32 bit too now |
| 00:32.50 | ShadowJK | ah |
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| 00:33.20 | FireStorm| | go on the english 37 for 2 :D |
| 00:33.28 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: seriously, it's been 9 months for the normal people who don't run alpha/beta software |
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| 00:34.07 | timeless_mbp | but if you want to run a third party's hack w/ 64bit browsers, feel free |
| 00:34.12 | timeless_mbp | just don't expect support from me |
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| 00:34.38 | ShadowJK | Yes well, except on ARM, I haven't used 32bit browser for like 4 years or something, and before that I just didn't run flash :/ |
| 00:34.58 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: and why again did you want to run a 64bit browser? |
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| 00:35.16 | timeless_mbp | i mean, really, did you even have 4gb of ram in 2006? |
| 00:35.48 | ShadowJK | At the time my distro sneakily installed it, along with npviewer thingy. Then I discovered I could have flash enabled without entire browser crashing first time I hit a flash ad banner, and fell in love :-) |
| 00:35.50 | timeless_mbp | (you do realize that your 64bit process used more ram to address the same data because you grew its pointers, right?) |
| 00:36.00 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 00:36.11 | timeless_mbp | noscript/flashblock |
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| 00:37.01 | blackthorne | hi |
| 00:37.11 | comawhite | how can I test my application out without building a deb file for it (i have no idea how to write a deb file) |
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| 00:37.56 | alterego | contemplates how to make his UI more cross platform friendly. |
| 00:38.09 | comawhite | don't use gtk+ :P |
| 00:38.24 | alterego | I'm using Qt already. |
| 00:38.30 | timeless_mbp | comawhite: write the debian/<bits> anyway |
| 00:38.33 | alterego | But there are quite a few Maemo5 specifics. |
| 00:38.35 | timeless_mbp | you could use MADE/MADDE |
| 00:38.38 | *** join/#maemo daxt (~dan@112.135.78.74) |
| 00:38.44 | comawhite | hmm |
| 00:38.52 | comawhite | will do |
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| 00:39.18 | comawhite | timeless_mbp, how hard is it to write a deb? |
| 00:39.22 | comawhite | since I use cmake |
| 00:39.23 | timeless_mbp | not hard |
| 00:39.25 | alterego | I think I'll do a: columbus-mobile columbus-desktop and columbus-common. |
| 00:39.31 | alterego | That should cover everything. |
| 00:39.48 | timeless_mbp | it's 3 files (debian-binary, data.tar.gz, control.tar.gz) |
| 00:39.56 | timeless_mbp | (or something like that) |
| 00:42.15 | ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, what about 64bit flash and 64bit browser, does that also go through new plugin-container thing? |
| 00:42.26 | comawhite | timeless_mbp, found this: http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~fuchs/maemo/DpkgDeb.cmake |
| 00:42.50 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: there's no currently supported 64bit flash, but yes, it would |
| 00:43.34 | ShadowJK | getting 32bit versions of all the libraries needed for firefox and flash sounds kinda daunting :-) |
| 00:44.55 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: it really shouldn't be that bad |
| 00:44.59 | timeless_mbp | otoh, it might be |
| 00:45.05 | timeless_mbp | it kinda depends on how lame your platform is :) |
| 00:45.19 | timeless_mbp | (windows just sprinkles magic wow64 pixie dust around) |
| 00:45.29 | alterego | g'night folks |
| 00:47.27 | ShadowJK | it'd be cool if middle click or open in new tab opened up new tab, but didn't actually start loading it until you pressed a "do it" button, at which point it'd load all the newly opened tabs with the pages you wanted.. So then you could queue up a bunch of websites, go do something else, and come back and read it all in one go without waiting in between :-) |
| 00:47.31 | *** join/#maemo daxt (~dan@112.135.79.164) |
| 00:47.53 | timeless_mbp | "add bookmark"? :) |
| 00:48.12 | ShadowJK | But you still have like 5 minutes in total of loading time |
| 00:48.26 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 00:48.42 | timeless_mbp | you can ask the browser to open all bookmarks from a folder as tabs... |
| 00:48.49 | ShadowJK | Oh :-) |
| 00:49.06 | ShadowJK | can fennec do this too? |
| 00:49.21 | timeless_mbp | i don't think fennec includes a foot gun |
| 00:49.32 | timeless_mbp | but you can probably buy one separately or build one yourself |
| 00:49.35 | timeless_mbp | could be wrong |
| 00:49.41 | ShadowJK | aw |
| 00:49.53 | ShadowJK | microb is pretty good at "reading web forums" case :-) |
| 00:54.32 | lcuk | ShadowJK, hm |
| 00:54.54 | lcuk | you mean an option like "do not load new tabs until activated" |
| 00:55.13 | ShadowJK | no I mean a way to postpone actually loading tabs, so that the page you are opening them from stays responsive |
| 00:55.17 | *** join/#maemo daxt (~dan@112.135.80.37) |
| 00:55.23 | lcuk | exactly |
| 00:55.32 | lcuk | staying on current page just prepares it |
| 00:55.34 | ShadowJK | like when I read a forum, I don't want to click an individual thread, wait 30 seconds for it to load, read it, click back, wait 30 seconds for index to load, etc |
| 00:55.37 | lcuk | without actually contacting site |
| 00:55.43 | lcuk | until you change to the tab |
| 00:56.00 | ShadowJK | I want to pick threads of interest, and I want those to be loaded in batch while I'm doing something else, so that I can read them all without load times in between |
| 00:56.11 | ShadowJK | and then go to the next page of the index, and repeat |
| 00:56.13 | lcuk | thats middle click |
| 00:56.24 | lcuk | at least desktopish |
| 00:57.21 | ShadowJK | Yeah I just noticed that in fennec the tab with the "index page" i'm opening the tabs from slows down and becomes somewhat unusable until the newly opened tab has finished downloading |
| 00:57.41 | ShadowJK | which makes it mostly equivalent to visiting the thread without opening new tab |
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| 00:58.09 | DocScrutinizer | screw forum |
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| 00:58.10 | lcuk | ShadowJK, right |
| 00:58.27 | lcuk | so giving uber priority to focused tab |
| 00:58.34 | lcuk | you dont leave that tab |
| 00:58.40 | lcuk | the others dont get to make connections |
| 00:58.53 | lcuk | effectively |
| 00:59.33 | ShadowJK | I guess I could iptables block all traffic while reading the index page :) |
| 00:59.56 | DocScrutinizer | probably wget is the only tool to somehow cope with forum PITA |
| 01:00.18 | DocScrutinizer | a synthesis of wget and rsync :-D |
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| 01:19.37 | MohammadAG | alterego, ping |
| 01:19.53 | MohammadAG | or actually anyone who can guess font sizes easily :P |
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| 01:32.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | you don't need to guess - 72PT are one inch |
| 01:34.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | unless your screen is massively misconfigured or cheating, like maemo N900 screen obviously is |
| 01:36.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | s/y is/y doesv |
| 01:36.43 | GeneralAntilles1 | Ehehe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5291979584/ |
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| 01:38.09 | *** join/#maemo daxt (~dan@112.135.92.138) |
| 01:39.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, I guess owning a tesla doesn't magically improve your skills. Even less those of other crash dummies |
| 01:42.20 | *** join/#maemo daxt_ (~dan@112.135.93.78) |
| 01:43.29 | GeneralAntilles1 | DocScrutinizer51: a vanity plate like that does make you look like a fool, though. |
| 01:43.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | tesla however is really cool. I'd love to paricipate in development |
| 01:44.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | err I didn't notice. what's it been? |
| 01:44.14 | GeneralAntilles1 | "85 MPG" |
| 01:44.25 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/council/GeneralAntilles) |
| 01:44.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | NFC |
| 01:45.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | too much native background needed |
| 01:45.50 | nox- | `miles per gallon' |
| 01:45.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | duh |
| 01:46.20 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, he's bragging about the fuel economy rating of his $100k car. |
| 01:46.57 | GeneralAntilles | Good day to carry the camera. |
| 01:47.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | while that's a BS bogus value anyway |
| 01:47.14 | *** join/#maemo daxt (~dan@112.135.94.129) |
| 01:48.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | he could as well mention miles / mg plutonium or rats/day |
| 01:49.05 | GeneralAntilles | Indeed. |
| 01:49.12 | GeneralAntilles | Thus the irony increases. |
| 01:49.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | litium/mile |
| 01:51.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually CO2/mile is a meaningful unit |
| 01:51.32 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@110.164.149.192) |
| 01:52.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | including that from TCO / manufacturing / recycling / etc |
| 01:52.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | GeneralAntilles: no MWKN this week? |
| 01:52.54 | *** join/#maemo onekenthomas (~kthomas@71-211-139-166.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 01:53.16 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer51, Saturday. |
| 01:53.48 | *** join/#maemo cardinal (~cardinal@a79-169-197-40.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 01:54.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah today is saturday. in 2 days ther's logical MWKN day |
| 01:54.26 | GeneralAntilles | I'm assuming Jaffa's still going to send me an Etherpad link sometime tomorrow afternoon. |
| 01:54.28 | *** join/#maemo daxt_ (~dan@112.135.95.216) |
| 01:55.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | he said he thinks it won't publish this time |
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| 01:57.39 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer51: oh? |
| 01:57.48 | *** join/#maemo daxt (~dan@112.135.64.164) |
| 01:58.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | check backscroll or log |
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| 02:01.13 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer51: ah, see it. |
| 02:01.19 | GeneralAntilles | I can't say I'd mind. Working again tomorrow. |
| 02:03.28 | MohammadAG | why does one get more progress in coding at 4 AM? |
| 02:04.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh. ctl-F on microb needs setting focus to the irclog input field to actually jump to the first match :-/ |
| 02:04.22 | MohammadAG | I managed to botch up fapman to make it show a list (that I'll just copy to the mediaplayer - just using fapman for testing purposes so I don't ruin my code :P) http://i52.tinypic.com/34xhoit.jpg |
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| 02:04.51 | MohammadAG | which seems kinda broken, for now, but it's fun :D |
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| 02:13.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | ctl-F search in microb is completely broken |
| 02:13.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | I wonder how this ever made it beyond QA |
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| 02:18.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | sometimes it works for repeated search by simply hitting CR. Usually it needs some scrolling or even setting focus to some input field of page to find first occurance. next occurance is almost impossible to jump to |
| 02:18.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | timeless_mbp: ^^^ |
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| 02:18.49 | timeless_mbp | yeah well |
| 02:18.52 | timeless_mbp | searching is hard |
| 02:18.59 | timeless_mbp | and i'm not sure there was any qa done on it |
| 02:19.02 | nox- | oh wow and i thought that was a `only me' bug... |
| 02:19.13 | timeless_mbp | we mostly ignored the fact that it wasn't great |
| 02:19.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | any hints how to work around? |
| 02:19.19 | timeless_mbp | i know i experienced it internally |
| 02:19.27 | timeless_mbp | um, i think you've found the major workaround |
| 02:19.32 | timeless_mbp | s |
| 02:19.48 | nox- | i think that was one of the reasons i tried fennec... :/ |
| 02:20.11 | nox- | (which as someone else put it, `eats ram like candy' ): |
| 02:20.21 | timeless_mbp | candy sounds yummy |
| 02:20.34 | timeless_mbp | stares at a failed merge and cries |
| 02:20.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | ooh, did I mention that zooming makes hit located somewhere outside viewport? |
| 02:20.56 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 02:21.19 | timeless_mbp | asks DocScrutinizer51 to rephrase that in English |
| 02:21.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 02:22.07 | Psi | anyone know if there is an app to stream the desktop to a upnp dlna server over n900 wifi? |
| 02:22.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | on a zoomed page, *if* search actually scrolls, then to a location quite offset to real match location |
| 02:23.09 | timeless_mbp | tries to decide if http://www.dlna.org/home is spam |
| 02:23.20 | *** join/#maemo andax (~Andreas_B@adsl-84-227-57-8.adslplus.ch) |
| 02:23.21 | timeless_mbp | Psi: you want to replace VNC with DLNA? |
| 02:23.27 | Psi | yeah, pretty much |
| 02:23.30 | Psi | just an idea |
| 02:23.36 | MohammadAG | YAY finally! http://i53.tinypic.com/mvlonl.jpg :D |
| 02:23.40 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 02:23.49 | timeless_mbp | https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1359&bih=825&q=vnc+dlna&aq=f&aqi=g-s1g-sx8g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= ? |
| 02:24.05 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: what is that? |
| 02:24.28 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, the mediaplayer rewrite, or the testing base for the list (fapman in this case) |
| 02:24.43 | MohammadAG | http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer |
| 02:24.47 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: can you replace the title and status lines? :) |
| 02:25.02 | MohammadAG | hmm? |
| 02:25.17 | timeless_mbp | "Select packages", "0 package(s) marked",... |
| 02:25.25 | timeless_mbp | kinda confusing =b |
| 02:25.31 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 02:25.33 | MohammadAG | those are fapman's |
| 02:25.37 | MohammadAG | http://i54.tinypic.com/2jg8853.jpg |
| 02:26.14 | MohammadAG | as you can see, this list's missing the artist/album info, as well as song length http://i54.tinypic.com/4s1nhl.jpg |
| 02:26.39 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: btw, are you borrowing strings or using your own? |
| 02:26.48 | timeless_mbp | i dropped 'Now playing' from my localization |
| 02:27.01 | MohammadAG | Using my own, chances are the strings will be replaced when the package mediaplayer is removed |
| 02:27.08 | MohammadAG | unless I'm mistaken, then that can easily be fixed |
| 02:27.15 | timeless_mbp | goes back to merging |
| 02:27.17 | Dassu | Btw, does anybody know of alternative for gecko-mediaplayer-plugin for the maemo 5? |
| 02:27.18 | MohammadAG | but it's translatable ;) |
| 02:27.32 | MohammadAG | not me, sorry |
| 02:27.47 | Dassu | working gecko-mediaplayer-plugin would be cool but it would require all those gnome libaries |
| 02:28.48 | timeless_mbp | Dassu: what's the use case? |
| 02:29.13 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, are the strings (.mo files) part of the mediaplayer package? |
| 02:29.31 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: they're part of -l10n- packages |
| 02:29.43 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, so if I remove the mediaplayer package, they'd stay there? |
| 02:30.01 | timeless_mbp | do you clean up orphans? |
| 02:30.04 | MohammadAG | s/remove/removed |
| 02:30.14 | MohammadAG | not really |
| 02:30.36 | timeless_mbp | then yeah. they should survive |
| 02:30.41 | timeless_mbp | but beware |
| 02:30.47 | timeless_mbp | my localization changes their strings |
| 02:30.58 | timeless_mbp | so it isn't a good idea to assume a given string |
| 02:31.10 | timeless_mbp | goes back to being confused by a merge |
| 02:31.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | microb is closed? |
| 02:31.35 | *** join/#maemo jukey (~jukey@brln-4db86212.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 02:31.37 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer51: the ui is closed |
| 02:32.06 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=microb.*debian/change |
| 02:32.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, wonder if that's blocking debugging of search function |
| 02:32.23 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 02:32.27 | timeless_mbp | probably not |
| 02:32.39 | timeless_mbp | the ui is rather trivial |
| 02:32.47 | timeless_mbp | it more or less just calls verbs |
| 02:32.54 | *** join/#maemo radec (~radec@74-32-169-38.dr01.myck.or.frontiernet.net) |
| 02:33.07 | timeless_mbp | there's also an eal-test app somewhere |
| 02:35.40 | Dassu | timeless_mbp: I like to use greasemonkey script that replaces flash-player with embedded video. |
| 02:36.15 | timeless_mbp | Dassu: hrm, ok, why? :) |
| 02:39.58 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.15.172) |
| 02:45.28 | Dassu | timeless_mbp: because flash is unnecessarily heavy for video |
| 02:45.33 | *** join/#maemo Guest93122 (~bbee@2001:888:155c::13) |
| 02:46.12 | timeless_mbp | Dassu: you have numbers to support this? |
| 02:47.46 | Dassu | You dont need numbers. It is that obvious |
| 02:49.03 | Dassu | Just try out Flash on any linux based system and then try same video with gecko-mediaplayer-plugin |
| 02:49.30 | Dassu | It is true that flash is quite light on windows but on the Linux that's a whole other story |
| 02:49.34 | nox- | does flash on n900 use dsp for video? |
| 02:49.44 | SpeedEvil | mplayer on n900 plays flash videos that flash plays at 2-4fps or so, at 100fps |
| 02:51.00 | nox- | haha ok |
| 02:51.50 | SpeedEvil | This was of course just one test - but... |
| 02:52.23 | nox- | well it shows a trend at least :) |
| 02:52.36 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.188.98) |
| 02:53.12 | MohammadAG | can actually flip between windows while playing a higher quality flash video (360p) with mplayer than with youtube.com (240p) |
| 02:56.30 | *** join/#maemo daxt (~dan@112.135.84.73) |
| 02:56.40 | timeless_mbp | Dassu: most linux distributions don't have source code access to flash |
| 02:56.53 | timeless_mbp | and don't spend a year trying to optimize it for a single hardware paltform |
| 02:57.24 | SpeedEvil | Flash can be surprisingly good in some cases on n900 |
| 02:59.35 | Dassu | timeless_mbp: there is no source code for flash at all... |
| 02:59.44 | timeless_mbp | Dassu: um |
| 02:59.53 | Dassu | it is close source |
| 03:00.01 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 03:00.22 | SpeedEvil | Adobe clearly does spend time optimising it for windows though. |
| 03:00.25 | timeless_mbp | Dassu: where do you think binaries come from? |
| 03:00.38 | timeless_mbp | santa claus? |
| 03:00.56 | Dassu | timeless_mbp: aargh, dude I meant that the source code is not publicly available |
| 03:01.04 | Dassu | timeless_mbp: the binaries came from adobe |
| 03:01.05 | timeless_mbp | Dassu: ok |
| 03:01.08 | timeless_mbp | no |
| 03:01.12 | timeless_mbp | the binaries came from nokia |
| 03:01.18 | timeless_mbp | because *we* paid for source access |
| 03:01.24 | timeless_mbp | so we could pay *our* team to optimize it |
| 03:03.12 | Dassu | Can I have a source for that? |
| 03:03.25 | timeless_mbp | if you pay us a couple of million dollars, perhaps |
| 03:03.38 | timeless_mbp | but you'll probably get it cheaper if you offer those millions of dollars to adobe.. |
| 03:03.54 | timeless_mbp | oh, you mean "someone to confirm that i'm not lying"? |
| 03:04.13 | luke-jr | Dassu: timeless_mbp is an official Nokia employee that worked on the browser |
| 03:04.20 | Dassu | oh oke |
| 03:04.25 | luke-jr | timeless_mbp: which I must say is actually probably one of the best parts of Maemo 5 |
| 03:04.32 | luke-jr | after using it more than I used to |
| 03:04.55 | luke-jr | 'best' as in 'impressively stable and standards implementing" |
| 03:05.06 | SpeedEvil | yup |
| 03:05.09 | SpeedEvil | browser is good |
| 03:05.22 | *** join/#maemo tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 03:05.22 | Psi | anyone know of a trick to using google maps on the nokia browser, is there anyway to scroll the map other than the little touch arrow buttons that jump half the map at a time? |
| 03:05.43 | SpeedEvil | you know how to enable 'pointer mode' ? |
| 03:06.00 | Psi | ive seen that pointer mode in the terminal app |
| 03:06.09 | Psi | looked for it in browser but didnt find it |
| 03:06.34 | Psi | but yeah, thats what i want, how do you get it in the browser? |
| 03:06.39 | timeless_mbp | Psi: you haven't learned how to use the browser yet :) |
| 03:06.43 | timeless_mbp | you're missing most of its power |
| 03:07.06 | Psi | yeah, i figured there was a way |
| 03:07.10 | SpeedEvil | slife finger into left of screen, about a quarter up |
| 03:07.14 | luke-jr | better question is how to zoom Google Maps mobile |
| 03:07.15 | SpeedEvil | then tap on that -> icon |
| 03:07.28 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: that's a good question |
| 03:07.30 | *** join/#maemo user__ (~Pztrn@pztrn.ru) |
| 03:07.49 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: from memory you can sometimes double tap to zoom |
| 03:07.59 | timeless_mbp | for zooming out you can search for something on another scale |
| 03:08.11 | timeless_mbp | (totally lame on both counts, better answers more than welcome) |
| 03:09.40 | luke-jr | timeless_mbp: double-tap does a MicroB-zoom |
| 03:09.54 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: it shouldn't if you're in interactive mode.. |
| 03:09.57 | luke-jr | o |
| 03:10.07 | timeless_mbp | (see lesson psi is supposed to be learning..) |
| 03:10.33 | Psi | yeah, thanks |
| 03:10.36 | Psi | found it |
| 03:10.38 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a83-245-164-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 03:10.38 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 03:10.51 | Psi | are there any other hidden buttons? |
| 03:10.53 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.236.206) |
| 03:11.09 | timeless_mbp | Psi: that's the main hidden item in the browser |
| 03:11.14 | timeless_mbp | (other than about:config) |
| 03:11.29 | timeless_mbp | there was actually youtube.com video lectures for the n900 |
| 03:11.35 | timeless_mbp | s/was/were/ |
| 03:11.42 | Psi | any useful settings in about:config |
| 03:11.46 | timeless_mbp | (it was designed to be a series) |
| 03:12.31 | timeless_mbp | for the most part we like to think that the settings are tuned reasonably well |
| 03:13.28 | Psi | excellent, the pointer mode also fixed a problem i was having on another website |
| 03:13.39 | SpeedEvil | I would love to see numbers on how many people that are moving on from the n900 diddn't find the little pointer |
| 03:13.51 | Psi | that was really the only thing annoying me about the browser, its awesomely done |
| 03:13.52 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 03:15.07 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: most of them i'd bet |
| 03:15.24 | timeless_mbp | i want to strangle the UI designers and the PM |
| 03:15.25 | Psi | SpeedEvil: yeah |
| 03:15.46 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: the modes were supposed to be introduced by the browser home page |
| 03:15.55 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 03:15.59 | timeless_mbp | failing to do that more or less ensured that most people wouldn't discover it |
| 03:16.05 | SpeedEvil | then someone decided to nuke the homepage? |
| 03:16.16 | Psi | i find it unususal that ive never found it by accident |
| 03:16.34 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: i don't remember exactly what happened |
| 03:16.39 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 03:17.04 | timeless_mbp | but there definitely was a plan/proposal to have it explained in the initial page |
| 03:17.18 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: sadly, we get no credit for thinking about it |
| 03:17.24 | timeless_mbp | and along comes fennec which does it right |
| 03:17.45 | timeless_mbp | (their state page for a while had drag hints to show off the two side bars) |
| 03:18.12 | Psi | still not heard back from rovio about the angry birds bug i found |
| 03:18.18 | Psi | guess they are pretty busy |
| 03:18.51 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-178-002-227-199.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:18.58 | timeless_mbp | you broke angry birds? |
| 03:19.42 | Psi | well i finished all the free levels with 3 stars and noticed i could play the locked levels even tho there was no data for them. It loads an empty level, says youve won it 2 sec later then locks up |
| 03:20.07 | Psi | then you run the game again and you can click the next level you dont have :P |
| 03:20.39 | timeless_mbp | :o |
| 03:20.51 | Psi | here, i took a pic http://psi.abcom.co.nz/green_section.jpg |
| 03:21.04 | lcuk | thinks the next level pack will have a Psi pig in it |
| 03:22.20 | Psi | here is what a level looks like when there is no data for it, i guess the slingshot loads at point 0,0 which is inside the gound :P http://psi.abcom.co.nz/no_level_data.jpg |
| 03:23.04 | SpeedEvil | I ***'d all of the paid levels, then was going for **** |
| 03:23.21 | SpeedEvil | (*** it, then get a significantly better score) |
| 03:23.32 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (~rvivi@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 03:23.38 | SpeedEvil | Some of them are bastards |
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| 03:23.44 | *** join/#maemo w00t_ (~w00t@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 03:23.52 | Psi | the last free level took me ages to get on 3 star |
| 03:24.04 | *** join/#maemo barisione (~barisione@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 03:24.08 | Psi | im not sure what triggered the first nonfree level to unlock |
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| 03:33.15 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 03:33.19 | *** join/#maemo maybeHere (cl@p4FE9EF1E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 03:33.30 | SpeedEvil | wonders why xchat run on n900 displaying on the desktop has no input box. |
| 03:36.02 | Psi | anyone know what components are inside the n900 tvout cable? |
| 03:36.20 | lcuk | metal wire afaik |
| 03:36.33 | SpeedEvil | Psi: gerbils |
| 03:36.34 | nox- | suspects composite |
| 03:36.36 | nox- | haha |
| 03:36.36 | lcuk | occasionally theres some electrons |
| 03:37.04 | SpeedEvil | Psi: It's just a simple cable - there is a complex DAC and colour encoder in the SoC |
| 03:37.10 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@110.164.166.72) |
| 03:37.16 | SpeedEvil | In principe it can do quite high-res over sync-on-green monitors |
| 03:37.17 | Psi | so no little pcb in that 1-3 cable plastic lump |
| 03:37.20 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 03:37.30 | Psi | ok |
| 03:37.33 | Psi | thanks |
| 03:37.52 | luke-jr | lol |
| 03:39.41 | timeless_mbp | prefers lemmings over gerbils |
| 03:40.09 | MohammadAG | http://i53.tinypic.com/5pq87q.jpg :D |
| 03:40.17 | timeless_mbp | http://everyjoe.com/technology/gerbil-physics-like-lemmings-but-better/ |
| 03:41.11 | nox- | SpeedEvil, oh its somethine else than composite video? |
| 03:41.33 | Psi | so it detects its a tvout cable and not headphones just from the load resistance of speakers or |
| 03:41.40 | Psi | |
| 03:41.50 | Psi | sorry |
| 03:42.03 | SpeedEvil | nox-: No, it's just composite video |
| 03:42.05 | Psi | .... or 75 ohm video |
| 03:42.12 | nox- | ok |
| 03:42.21 | SpeedEvil | Psi: it detects a 75 ohm or lower load on video out |
| 03:42.32 | Psi | yeah |
| 03:42.36 | Psi | makes sense |
| 03:42.43 | SpeedEvil | If you want to drive a audio line-in, you can short tvout with a paperclip |
| 03:42.44 | nox- | *nod* |
| 03:43.05 | nox- | heh |
| 03:43.11 | Psi | interesting |
| 03:43.39 | nox- | http://www.bildschirmarbeiter.com/video/frau_auto_winter/ |
| 03:43.42 | nox- | (ot) |
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| 03:47.22 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 03:48.01 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.185.89) |
| 03:48.28 | timeless_mbp | nox-: *rotfl* |
| 03:51.14 | *** join/#maemo radec (~radec@74-32-169-38.dr01.myck.or.frontiernet.net) |
| 03:51.23 | nox- | :) |
| 03:54.51 | timeless_mbp | anyone here use MfE? |
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| 03:57.17 | nox- | <3 mutt |
| 03:57.30 | nox- | (+ssh) |
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| 04:09.12 | timeless_mbp | gets totally confused |
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| 04:13.17 | MohammadAG | night |
| 04:19.11 | nox- | timeless_mbp, i dont use exchange :) |
| 04:19.20 | timeless_mbp | :( |
| 04:19.55 | nox- | sorry if that wasnt obvious... |
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| 04:34.59 | daxt | Does anybody use Recaller here ? |
| 04:35.23 | Psi | i do |
| 04:35.29 | daxt | great |
| 04:35.38 | Psi | it seems to work fine, i have a folder of all my calls |
| 04:35.42 | daxt | Psi how did u configure it to record calls ? |
| 04:35.49 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@89.243.36.97) |
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| 04:35.50 | Psi | looks |
| 04:35.58 | daxt | i notice that Recaller slows my N900 :( |
| 04:36.23 | Psi | in the options i have it set to autorecord |
| 04:36.34 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (~rvivi@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 04:36.36 | Psi | source=phone and format=aac |
| 04:36.44 | daxt | my settings are the same |
| 04:36.57 | daxt | yet Phone gets horribly slower |
| 04:37.03 | Psi | once i accidently clicked record and it was running for a day or something :P |
| 04:37.06 | Psi | had a 1GB file |
| 04:37.25 | daxt | storage space is not an issue since we have 32 GB ;) |
| 04:37.27 | Psi | daxt: how slow is slow? |
| 04:38.03 | daxt | i tried to uninstall Recaller , and uninstaller in the App manager took around 5 minutes to appear |
| 04:38.12 | daxt | that is way too slow |
| 04:38.20 | *** join/#maemo peb_ (~peb@p579F2B2C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:38.21 | Psi | you mean its slow to browse packages? |
| 04:38.56 | Psi | i get that on all packages, the whole package app is slow |
| 04:39.03 | Psi | i didnt think it was anything to do with recaller |
| 04:39.38 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@71-211-136-240.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 04:41.24 | Psi | anyone without recaller and who's never installed it care to tell use if your package manager is really slow to download the package list and display anything |
| 04:41.30 | Psi | use=us |
| 04:42.20 | daxt | it was package manager slow because recaller was running |
| 04:42.34 | Psi | running as in recording or just active in memory? |
| 04:42.35 | daxt | and when i stopped the recaller deamon , package manager works fine |
| 04:42.45 | daxt | running in recording |
| 04:42.58 | daxt | probably due to AAC codec , which eats alot of CPU ? |
| 04:43.02 | Psi | why are you trying to install packages while on the phone? |
| 04:43.24 | daxt | i was unable to do kill PID |
| 04:43.51 | daxt | coz system was that slow |
| 04:44.45 | daxt | Psi i guess i shud change the codec and experiment with it |
| 04:44.55 | daxt | FLAC would be nice option |
| 04:45.09 | Psi | it stops itself once your call ends |
| 04:45.25 | Psi | i dont see how/why you are using the package manager while on a phonecall |
| 04:46.01 | daxt | no no no |
| 04:46.07 | daxt | not while on the phone call |
| 04:46.29 | daxt | whenever i click on something recaller start to record |
| 04:46.38 | daxt | that is another prob i have |
| 04:47.08 | Psi | what do you mean "click on something"? |
| 04:47.28 | daxt | lets say i change the profile |
| 04:47.33 | daxt | to silent mode |
| 04:47.38 | Psi | ya |
| 04:47.38 | daxt | recaller start recording |
| 04:47.49 | Psi | so the icon changes to green? |
| 04:47.54 | daxt | yup |
| 04:47.56 | Psi | odd |
| 04:48.00 | daxt | exactly |
| 04:48.06 | Psi | puts his phone into silent mode |
| 04:48.17 | daxt | all i want recaller is to record my calls |
| 04:48.34 | Psi | just put my phone to silent and recaller did nothing, still red |
| 04:48.43 | Psi | so it looks like yours is currupt or something |
| 04:48.52 | daxt | ya |
| 04:49.09 | daxt | what is the version u have ? |
| 04:49.17 | Psi | of recaller or phone os? |
| 04:49.26 | daxt | did u install it via apt-get or installer script ? |
| 04:49.31 | daxt | both |
| 04:49.38 | daxt | maemo v and recaller v |
| 04:49.41 | Psi | recaller 2.1 |
| 04:50.01 | daxt | How did u install it ? |
| 04:50.11 | daxt | via apt-get or installer script ? |
| 04:50.17 | Psi | phone maemo 5 version 20.2010.36-2.002 |
| 04:51.46 | daxt | H |
| 04:51.58 | daxt | Psi how did u install it ? |
| 04:52.23 | Psi | im not sure |
| 04:52.29 | Psi | but i think it was through the package manager |
| 04:52.47 | daxt | i installed via installer script |
| 04:52.53 | daxt | its where i have gone wrong i guess |
| 04:52.57 | daxt | let me follow your way |
| 04:53.13 | Psi | tried to kill it with a -9 ? |
| 04:54.05 | Psi | but yeah, remove it and install from package manager and try that |
| 04:54.26 | Psi | im pretty sure i first came across the app when browsing the apps in the package manager and installed it from there |
| 04:56.03 | daxt | Psi what is the repository which Recaller is contained |
| 04:56.33 | Psi | hm.. |
| 04:56.34 | Psi | looks |
| 04:56.54 | Psi | waits while app manager loads the list |
| 04:56.59 | Psi | this will take a minute |
| 04:57.03 | Psi | or 2 |
| 04:57.13 | daxt | n/p |
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| 04:59.10 | daxt | its recaller 2.1 |
| 05:00.38 | Psi | hm.. i cant tell |
| 05:00.46 | Psi | it doesnt show up because i have it installed already |
| 05:01.14 | daxt | n/p |
| 05:01.23 | Psi | i can tell you what repos i have setuo |
| 05:03.07 | daxt | maemo 5 20.2010.36.2.203.1 |
| 05:03.12 | daxt | is this the same as yours ? |
| 05:03.38 | psycho_oreos | too many dots but I would say the same except installed different locality |
| 05:03.47 | Psi | nokia applications / noki asystem software update / ovi / maemo.org / mozilla multi catalog / tools / extra-devel / extra-testing / |
| 05:04.26 | Psi | yeah, i dunno what the end part of the version number means |
| 05:04.38 | daxt | psycho_oreos of course i am from south asia :) |
| 05:04.47 | psycho_oreos | various releases, indian release, south africa, USA, asia, etc |
| 05:05.19 | psycho_oreos | its pretty well documented on the tablets-dev.nokia.com I think for firmware downloads |
| 05:06.12 | psycho_oreos | otherwise both of you are running the same base version, PR1.3 |
| 05:07.25 | daxt | yup |
| 05:07.28 | daxt | PR1.3 |
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| 05:08.23 | daxt | i close to FLAC codec on the Recaller and now System seems to be fast but 1.01 minute file is 3.4 mb |
| 05:08.27 | psycho_oreos | and you have a newer version Psi for recaller, most likely because you have enabled extras-devel/extras-testing, my recaller version states 2.0 |
| 05:08.28 | daxt | unusual ? |
| 05:09.48 | psycho_oreos | daxt, not sure |
| 05:09.56 | daxt | now the system responsiveness is much better |
| 05:10.24 | psycho_oreos | I'd probably check the recording to see if it works or its corrupt |
| 05:10.53 | Psi | yeah, i probably should turn off extra-devel |
| 05:11.03 | Psi | never had a prob yet tho |
| 05:11.44 | daxt | Psi what do u think about FLAC over AAC ? |
| 05:11.54 | psycho_oreos | not an ideal thing as you are grabbing the bleeding edge stuff but if you really wanted to be on the bleeding edge or have you device deliberately set that way then you can leave it on |
| 05:12.16 | Psi | daxt: never really thought about it |
| 05:12.20 | Psi | AAC seems fine |
| 05:12.36 | daxt | ya but it eats alot of CPU |
| 05:12.44 | Psi | cant say ive noticed |
| 05:12.55 | Psi | because when its recording im on a call |
| 05:13.11 | psycho_oreos | FLAC is free/open, AAC remains mostly part of Apple |
| 05:13.32 | daxt | try to record while your not on call by clicking on record button |
| 05:13.40 | daxt | and see how the system responds |
| 05:13.47 | daxt | then u shud be able to notice |
| 05:13.54 | daxt | FLAC is the new mp3 :) |
| 05:14.31 | psycho_oreos | not to many however who still thinks mp3 is a widely used format despite the lawsuits |
| 05:14.59 | daxt | time to switch to FLAC |
| 05:15.03 | Psi | seems fine |
| 05:15.06 | Psi | maybe a little slower |
| 05:15.12 | Psi | but not enough to really notice |
| 05:15.16 | lolloo | is there battlefiled badcompany2 stats widget for N900? |
| 05:15.51 | lolloo | anyone know a ventrilo client for N900? |
| 05:16.16 | Psi | fine was 1MB and i had it recording for about 1min |
| 05:16.26 | Psi | wasnt talking or anything tho, just background music |
| 05:16.54 | Psi | the biggest aac file i have in the folder is 10MB |
| 05:17.13 | Psi | deleted that 1GB one i accidently made when i left it on :P |
| 05:17.35 | Psi | gunna install the overclocked kernel in a month when my warrenty expires |
| 05:17.56 | Psi | that should be fun |
| 05:19.42 | psycho_oreos | my biggest aac is 511MB, I've used aac recording at the time because I couldn't get media player on n900 to play flac files (little did I know I was missing ogg support at the time hence that's why its not working) |
| 05:20.44 | Psi | ive still not bothered to buy a usdcard for my n900 |
| 05:20.56 | Psi | onboard 32gb is awesome |
| 05:20.57 | psycho_oreos | neither have I |
| 05:21.28 | psycho_oreos | lol I'll get another 32 or so GB class 6 or better microSD once it comes out and the prices becomes cheaper |
| 05:22.18 | daxt | why do u need another sdcard when u have 32 gb ???? |
| 05:22.26 | psycho_oreos | the need for ext2/3 type storage is much more ideal to work with rather than meddling with fat32 |
| 05:22.55 | psycho_oreos | and plus it isn't true 32GB, its 29GB when its shared with /home anyway |
| 05:23.05 | psycho_oreos | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:23.37 | daxt | well even 29 GB is more than enuf |
| 05:24.14 | daxt | u r not shooting porn videos , r u ? |
| 05:24.16 | psycho_oreos | yeah but the fat32 doesn't really honour linux attributes well |
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| 05:25.33 | psycho_oreos | lol does that matter? :) in the very least when and if I get my own microSD I can then install android port, meego, etc which by then it should be all stable.. and store files in which I can meddle with the attributes in full rather than having to make do with fat32 |
| 05:26.32 | daxt | is there a way to make the onboard one ext3 ? |
| 05:29.05 | daxt | guys i got another issue , when ever i changes the battery , N900 forgets it's current time |
| 05:29.20 | daxt | is there a way to fix it ? |
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| 05:54.53 | lolloo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fgXaFk4qKk |
| 05:55.08 | lolloo | this will fix it |
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| 06:34.22 | daxt_ | guys time in my N900 does not get synced , what could be the issue , any console command to make it happen ? |
| 06:38.59 | lcuk | install network time thingy |
| 06:39.08 | lcuk | > ntpd -s |
| 06:39.22 | lcuk | is what I run on my desktop to sync clock, afaik its same on n900 |
| 06:40.19 | daxt_ | thanks lcuk |
| 06:44.07 | daxt_ | great , it worked !!!! |
| 06:44.10 | daxt_ | YAY |
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| 06:57.06 | Termana | good morning |
| 06:59.53 | xDaReaperx | Morning |
| 07:00.07 | xDaReaperx | No one responds at #nitdroid |
| 07:00.09 | xDaReaperx | =/ |
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| 07:38.26 | lolloo | its sunday! |
| 07:38.41 | lolloo | what do you think? |
| 07:39.20 | lolloo | ok am out! laters! awesome sunnyday today! |
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| 09:13.10 | bluenemo | hi guys. i was wondering how close the n900 was to the openmoko. my questions were if i could 1: remove maemo overall for debian and 2: install maemo in LVM2 with dm_crypt |
| 09:14.50 | psycho_oreos | I don't have openmoko to test but I wouldn't say that it would be all that close, n900 has lots of proprietary blobs |
| 09:15.44 | psycho_oreos | unless you want to start re-adopting stuff that were later ported to meego which is more open source in some retrospects to get them back onto debian.. lots of messing around imo and meego is still very much WIP |
| 09:16.52 | petteri | debian on n900: https://elektranox.org/n900/ |
| 09:17.08 | bluenemo | i dont think i quite get it :) is meego now the choice for the n900? |
| 09:19.19 | bluenemo | cool meego uses btrfs :) that rocks@! |
| 09:20.33 | psycho_oreos | maemo contains proprietary components, some of which actually utilise hardware functionality of the n900. Without proprietary components n900 would not function as it is such as phone calling.. meego is where there's community devs from maemo working to make meego work on n900 by creating open codes so that there's no proprietary components and all that jazz.. however because the individual components that were made open on meego won't necessarily work for |
| 09:20.33 | psycho_oreos | debian or whatever other distro you want to install so then it needs to be ported from that to make it work with the distro you choose |
| 09:21.35 | bluenemo | hm ok i c |
| 09:21.55 | psycho_oreos | but meego and meego porting to n900 are both works in progress, so they are not complete and expect things to crash.. even when you make debian to work with those once proprietary codes for the various built-in chips on n900 |
| 09:24.50 | bluenemo | hm ok.. well i'd wouldnt hurt me to have a few properitery stuff running on it.. whats improtant for me is that i can crypt it right.. how far do i have access to the internal 32gb? can i make them appear like, say /dev/sdX ? |
| 09:25.55 | ShadowJK | /dev/mmcblk0p* |
| 09:26.48 | bluenemo | is it shown like that on the devices cmd line or when i attach it via usb? |
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| 09:27.03 | psycho_oreos | the proprietary components won't work with other distribution without being ported and porting requires source code plus knowledge to be able to hack to make it work |
| 09:27.50 | bluenemo | hm yes i know. i thought about just using both, debian and maemo, booting whatever whenever i need it |
| 09:28.09 | bluenemo | but most importantly, both needs to be in LVM2 and dm_crypt |
| 09:28.32 | psycho_oreos | bluenemo, the link petteri mentioned on the front page pretty much describes what happens when you try installing debian on n900, no phone calling capability because the driver is proprietary |
| 09:29.31 | ShadowJK | MeeGo is using oFono for calls, and I think that's open. Atleast jebba made phonecalls in, I think, Fedora on N900 using it.. |
| 09:29.41 | ShadowJK | probably no UI exists though :) |
| 09:30.47 | bluenemo | the debian wouldnt need to support phone calling for me, i'd need umts and wlan basicly.. |
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| 09:41.00 | psycho_oreos | no idea on umts but I suspect it may be closely related to the phone functionality |
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| 09:44.19 | bluenemo | can i access the NAND only via this flasher tool? |
| 09:46.57 | ShadowJK | I wouldn't write to it manually from N900, if that's what you're asking. |
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| 09:48.36 | ShadowJK | It's not a block device and shouldn't be treated as such |
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| 09:58.13 | bluenemo | ShadowJK and others, thank you a lot for your help. i'm not quite shure if i should buy it.. |
| 09:59.00 | bluenemo | it seems fun so far if your not a total linux freak.. i think using it and staying normal user with maemo is fun, but developing for it i'm not shure.. |
| 10:01.23 | trumee | thinks his headache might be due to squinting at the small N900 screen |
| 10:02.10 | bluenemo | lol :) trumee i thought there were some x11vnc capabilitys and stuff? |
| 10:03.05 | trumee | Easier to use N900 in bed than a laptop :) |
| 10:03.13 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 10:03.22 | bluenemo | has nobody ever tried LVM and dm_crypt? basicly thats the most important thing for me.. |
| 10:03.26 | trumee | But increasing the xchat font has helped a bit. |
| 10:03.33 | bluenemo | trumee, lol :) |
| 10:03.42 | bluenemo | i like using my t60p in bed :) |
| 10:03.53 | bluenemo | xD |
| 10:04.43 | ShadowJK | N810 was better for that, bigger screen :) |
| 10:05.16 | bluenemo | i mean the NAND wouldnt be crypted of course... kernel and grub is not crypted normaly as well (as you couldnt decrypt it then ;) but the rest has to be.. |
| 10:06.16 | ShadowJK | the nand isn't a normal block device, and ubifs doesn't work on block devices |
| 10:06.30 | ShadowJK | lvm deals with block devices |
| 10:07.08 | bluenemo | i know, i wont want to crypt the nand, only everything else |
| 10:07.21 | ShadowJK | I'd just run stuff from a microsd card and keep the nand mostly untouched with a "backup" os dulboot style |
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| 10:07.42 | bluenemo | but i cant crypt maemo, can I ? |
| 10:08.13 | ShadowJK | Well, /home is ext3 so it would be possible |
| 10:08.38 | ShadowJK | however, fitting it into the init scripts would be "interesting" :) |
| 10:08.57 | bluenemo | lol :) |
| 10:09.21 | bluenemo | how many partitions are there normally? |
| 10:09.35 | ShadowJK | 3 on the emmc |
| 10:09.43 | bluenemo | emmc? |
| 10:09.59 | ShadowJK | 768M swap, 2gig /home and /opt, fat32 for the rest of the 32g |
| 10:10.19 | ShadowJK | emmc = integrated 32gigabyte (marketing bytes) mmc |
| 10:11.30 | bluenemo | marketing bytes :D |
| 10:12.03 | ShadowJK | 32 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000 bytes :) |
| 10:12.08 | kerio | they call it SI |
| 10:12.53 | bluenemo | :) |
| 10:13.44 | bluenemo | and maemo is installed by say dd an image to the device? or is it like installing a 'normal' linux (from a cd ur usb boot stick or sth)? |
| 10:14.03 | bluenemo | ur = or |
| 10:14.08 | ShadowJK | kinda like dd |
| 10:14.51 | kerio | never dd a NAND |
| 10:15.02 | ShadowJK | actual real dd is a bad idea to use on nand, it might accidentally work on some devices but will fuck up on others |
| 10:15.03 | Venemo | it's a bit more than dd afaik. eg. the flasher tool can account for errornous sectors and such. |
| 10:15.15 | Venemo | you'd need to ask DocScrutinizer, he knows more about this |
| 10:15.39 | bluenemo | ok thank you guys |
| 10:16.26 | bluenemo | i saw this youtube vid where a guy told about maemo running debian in a vm.. can maemo run vm's? |
| 10:16.55 | ShadowJK | he meant chroot |
| 10:17.03 | bluenemo | ok thought so |
| 10:17.12 | bluenemo | would be fun with 600mhz arm xD |
| 10:18.09 | bluenemo | hm well well. i think if i dont want to only develop i'd have to use maemo.. but as I have customer information i cant afford not to run around with it crypted.. |
| 10:19.05 | bluenemo | i'd be interested in developing as well, also i dont very much appreciate properitary 'traps'.. |
| 10:20.02 | ShadowJK | Well you probably need quite some devloper skills to get encryption setup anyway |
| 10:20.30 | bluenemo | on maemo yes, shure |
| 10:21.59 | bluenemo | i read meego uses btrfs.. that supports encryption as well. do you know anything about meego and crypt? |
| 10:22.11 | Venemo | bluenemo: ask that on #meego |
| 10:22.15 | bluenemo | btrfs is sooo cool btw :) |
| 10:22.24 | bluenemo | ok i'll do that yes |
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| 10:26.16 | bluenemo | ShadowJK, about the partitions: you said /home is ext3, what about /opt (and what is /opt for overall?)? where is the rest of the 32gb mounted? does it have to be fat32? |
| 10:31.26 | bluenemo | googeled for /opt, seems obsolete.. you propably didnt meant that /opt has a own partition, did you? |
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| 10:33.12 | bluenemo | is that info correct? /home (2G) and /home/user/MyDocs (27G) |
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| 10:46.57 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: thinking of putting a message up saying "no MWKN cos of Xmas holidays" |
| 10:47.06 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: i.e. no issue today |
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| 10:55.38 | RobbieThe1st | bluenemo: /opt is essentially symlinked to /home/opt, on the /home partition |
| 10:55.53 | bluenemo | ok thx |
| 10:56.13 | RobbieThe1st | bluenemo: And most 3rd-party apps should be stuck in there, because Nokia didn't just symlink /usr/share etc... |
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| 10:58.39 | alterego | A qml text rpg game .. |
| 10:58.52 | alterego | Seems ironic somehow. |
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| 11:05.03 | ShadowJK | bluenemo, maemo doesn't like it if MyDocs isn't vfat/fat32 |
| 11:07.33 | kerio | that's why you make it a 200mb partition |
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| 11:08.43 | bluenemo | ok thanks for the advice guys. the meego guys send me a link where ppl crypted /home and the /home/foo (28gb) |
| 11:08.47 | trumee | anything interesting out there in Boxing day sale? |
| 11:08.48 | bluenemo | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=66997 |
| 11:09.59 | trumee | would like to buy a dockstar or another joggler if on sale |
| 11:10.52 | timeless_mbp | bluenemo: fwiw vmware demo'd using an n800 for virtualization |
| 11:10.56 | timeless_mbp | so it's technically possib |
| 11:10.57 | timeless_mbp | le |
| 11:10.59 | kerio | dockstars are like 25$ |
| 11:11.05 | kerio | you cheapskate |
| 11:11.28 | trumee | kerio, not in UK, go for about £40 |
| 11:11.31 | kerio | (they also suck, buy a sheevaplug) |
| 11:11.52 | trumee | kerio, i thought they were based on sheevaplug |
| 11:12.01 | *** join/#maemo nidO (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 11:12.12 | trumee | they have more usb ports than sheevaplug |
| 11:12.16 | kerio | and less ram |
| 11:12.20 | kerio | and no jtag/serial |
| 11:12.34 | kerio | and you know how sheevaplugs always have troubles booting from usb? that's still there |
| 11:12.42 | kerio | except that booting from usb is pretty much your only option |
| 11:13.30 | kerio | because there's no jtag/serial so if you fuck up the flashing you bricked it |
| 11:13.53 | kerio | (that can be solved if you build a serial port though, the pins are still there) |
| 11:16.17 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net) |
| 11:17.52 | bluenemo | goodbye guys, thanks a lot for your help and merry xmas |
| 11:17.55 | *** part/#maemo bluenemo (~bluenemo@p54AA68BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:23.58 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@a83-163-145-235.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 11:24.47 | timeless_mbp | tries to pull a Mer out of a hat |
| 11:25.52 | alterego | Is that a Christmas joke? :P |
| 11:29.10 | xDaReaperx | laugh ppl |
| 11:32.53 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 11:40.21 | *** join/#maemo niko (~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko) |
| 11:40.26 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@ti0189a340-0373.bb.online.no) |
| 11:40.46 | *** join/#maemo Malin- (~malin@ti0189a340-0373.bb.online.no) |
| 11:40.48 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 11:45.41 | alterego | Note to self, "Stop reading stupid tmo threads about MeeGo and Nokia Dali device" |
| 11:46.32 | RobbieThe1st | Dali device? |
| 11:47.20 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (Ian--@77.243.78.98) |
| 11:47.29 | alterego | Don't ask. |
| 11:47.41 | alterego | It's supposed to be the codename of the N900 successor. |
| 11:48.05 | alterego | We _know_ as much about it as we knew about the N900 when it was called "Rover". |
| 11:48.53 | alterego | People should stop guessing and making stupid assumptions. It spreads FUD and tends to make everyone look like idiots. |
| 11:49.00 | RobbieThe1st | Yea |
| 11:58.56 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-239-72.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 12:02.31 | *** join/#maemo saLOUt (~rriemann@dslb-088-074-213-198.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:03.00 | saLOUt | does the n900 support turn-by-turn navigation with ovi maps? |
| 12:03.07 | *** join/#maemo ||jess| (~quassel@9.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net) |
| 12:05.27 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@122.151.123.3) |
| 12:06.11 | alterego | Cool, my app can be promoted to extras now :D |
| 12:06.19 | RST38h | Soooooooo |
| 12:06.35 | RST38h | No customizable desktop and no Flash in N9? =) |
| 12:06.46 | alterego | RST38h: bullcrap :P |
| 12:06.56 | RST38h | ORLY? |
| 12:07.25 | RST38h | Here: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/002993.html |
| 12:07.38 | *** join/#maemo bbee (~bbee@2001:888:155c::13) |
| 12:07.38 | *** join/#maemo bbee (~bbee@unaffiliated/bbee) |
| 12:07.59 | RST38h | especially liked "And as long as our development environment is impossible |
| 12:08.00 | RST38h | to use (the new security framework can hopefully be disabled) we won't |
| 12:08.01 | *** join/#maemo Trizt (nobody@h-168-17.A192.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 12:08.01 | RST38h | get apps eithere." |
| 12:08.27 | alterego | m'hmm |
| 12:08.41 | alterego | wait-and-see |
| 12:09.06 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 12:11.29 | alterego | I just think it's pointless guessing all the time. |
| 12:11.56 | alterego | And it just makes otherwise seemingly reasonible and intelligent people come across as just as idiotic as the kiddiots that talk there :/ |
| 12:12.40 | RST38h | alterego: I think you are missing the point. Look at guy's email address. |
| 12:13.13 | alterego | You mean the meego list ? |
| 12:13.22 | Termana | Who cares what Nokia does aren't we all going iPhone and Android anyway? |
| 12:13.24 | Termana | .... Anyone? |
| 12:13.26 | Termana | :p |
| 12:13.41 | RST38h | yes |
| 12:14.18 | saLOUt | alterego: does the n900 support turn-by-turn navigation with ovi maps? |
| 12:14.57 | alterego | Yes |
| 12:15.08 | alterego | But not voice guidance |
| 12:15.25 | saLOUt | alterego: thx |
| 12:43.17 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:57.50 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:03.32 | *** join/#maemo ilius (~ilius@unaffiliated/ilius) |
| 13:04.39 | ilius | i'm looking for a good music player that could play FOLDERS as playlist (musics without tags and ID3) |
| 13:05.16 | ilius | MadiaBox was good before the recent new version! |
| 13:06.09 | ilius | and Canola seems to run only in full screen mode |
| 13:16.32 | RST38h | Umgh |
| 13:16.52 | RST38h | Fixed MSlugX at the cost of hacking it. |
| 13:20.11 | *** join/#maemo lingling (57b33ec6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.179.62.198) |
| 13:21.35 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@122.151.122.109) |
| 13:22.01 | lingling | hi all. have a small problem with installing new nitdroid:when mount /dev/mmcblk1p2 /and it says: "mounting.... failed: no such file or directory" any solution? |
| 13:33.54 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:37.00 | ilius | any suggestion for a good music player? |
| 13:39.32 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 13:42.16 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 13:45.34 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@ppp-124-122-185-172.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 13:46.17 | *** join/#maemo Loom (~user@117.20.116.65) |
| 13:47.32 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@110.164.166.72) |
| 13:49.14 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@zux221-071-004.adsl.green.ch) |
| 13:52.26 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:54.31 | Loom | hi |
| 13:55.29 | Loom | any1 knows in which folder the shortcuts for the deskop are ? |
| 13:56.33 | Loom | i had made a shortcut and the icon disapeared when i rebooted |
| 13:56.57 | Loom | and now it doesn't let me make it again |
| 13:57.13 | trumee | ilius, mplayer? |
| 13:58.17 | Loom | for the transmission it was |
| 14:00.25 | ilius | trumee: command line? |
| 14:00.44 | ilius | trumee: and where is the package? |
| 14:01.00 | trumee | ilius, apt-get install mplayer |
| 14:11.53 | timeless_mbp | trumee: did i ever get you to test my packages? |
| 14:12.09 | *** join/#maemo anthonie (~anthonie@36.Red-88-8-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:12.19 | timeless_mbp | finally got around to making an update |
| 14:13.10 | trumee | timeless_mbp, what packages? |
| 14:13.10 | anthonie | Hello all, anyone here tried Kubuntu Maverick? Looking for some pointers to boot it from SD |
| 14:13.23 | timeless_mbp | trumee: alternate en-* locales |
| 14:13.38 | trumee | timeless_mbp, do i need them? |
| 14:13.56 | timeless_mbp | trumee: if you aren't using en-US/en-GB as a UI language then they won't do much |
| 14:13.57 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@ti0189a340-0217.bb.online.no) |
| 14:14.05 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.236.213.148) |
| 14:14.09 | timeless_mbp | but otherwise, you're welcome to try them |
| 14:14.30 | Trizt | likes timeless_mbp GB localisation |
| 14:14.49 | timeless_mbp | Trizt: wanna try an update? |
| 14:14.53 | Trizt | sure |
| 14:15.37 | trumee | timeless_mbp, i am using en-GB. But what is the advantage of using your packages? |
| 14:15.52 | timeless_mbp | trumee: non crappy English |
| 14:16.05 | trumee | ah! |
| 14:16.36 | trumee | does it fix dictionary or something. or changes the UI? |
| 14:17.00 | timeless_mbp | UI |
| 14:18.46 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 14:18.56 | timeless_mbp | finally finds the widget to silence this new n900 |
| 14:18.58 | *** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.243.97) |
| 14:19.17 | xDaReaperx | Hymn Awash |
| 14:19.19 | xDaReaperx | ? |
| 14:19.40 | timeless_mbp | has a set of n900s for testing :) |
| 14:19.52 | timeless_mbp | :(, what's my wifi password? :) |
| 14:19.56 | xDaReaperx | how many ? |
| 14:21.05 | timeless_mbp | hrm, two on my chest, one on the table |
| 14:21.34 | timeless_mbp | will probably return one tomorrow |
| 14:21.57 | xDaReaperx | you have nitdroid installed ? |
| 14:22.18 | timeless_mbp | not yet, but i have a brand new 8gb uSD card sent to me from ca.us |
| 14:22.23 | timeless_mbp | so i could install it there :) |
| 14:23.32 | trumee | timeless_mbp, do i need a restart? |
| 14:23.44 | timeless_mbp | trumee: not really |
| 14:23.53 | timeless_mbp | if the screen sorta collapsed, then it did most of the changes already |
| 14:23.55 | xDaReaperx | i think it's better to install it on eMMC |
| 14:24.03 | xDaReaperx | its faster on eMMC , after all you can also OC it |
| 14:24.04 | timeless_mbp | there are a couple of stragglers (browser) which you'd have to kill |
| 14:24.16 | timeless_mbp | xDaReaperx: i'm not really worried about perf |
| 14:24.24 | xDaReaperx | okay |
| 14:24.36 | trumee | timeless_mbp, any place obvious where i should see the UI change? |
| 14:24.37 | timeless_mbp | trumee: did the ui collapse? |
| 14:24.48 | timeless_mbp | if not, you probably are using the other english and didn't realize it :) |
| 14:24.55 | timeless_mbp | but the launcher is the obvious place |
| 14:25.01 | trumee | timeless_mbp, didn't notice it |
| 14:25.16 | timeless_mbp | check control panel and verify which locale you're using |
| 14:27.15 | trumee | timeless_mbp, ok i see an extra British English icon in the control panel. |
| 14:27.27 | timeless_mbp | trumee: right, but open the normal language thing |
| 14:27.34 | timeless_mbp | does it say you're using british or american? |
| 14:27.50 | timeless_mbp | if you're using american, then you'd need to install american (or switch to british using the normal picker) |
| 14:27.55 | trumee | says English(UK) |
| 14:28.00 | timeless_mbp | ok |
| 14:28.08 | timeless_mbp | well, go to the launcher |
| 14:28.18 | timeless_mbp | what do you see as the label for the globe? |
| 14:28.42 | trumee | Browser |
| 14:28.53 | timeless_mbp | do you remember what it used to say? |
| 14:28.59 | trumee | no :( |
| 14:29.08 | *** join/#maemo Svavel (~max@bullerovre99.bitnet.nu) |
| 14:29.11 | timeless_mbp | (you can switch back to nokia strings using the 'british english' control panel item) |
| 14:31.29 | trumee | ah. Ok it changed from Web to Browser. ok got ya! |
| 14:31.53 | timeless_mbp | trumee: yep |
| 14:31.54 | alterego | Do you need bug tracking fields in library packages? |
| 14:32.07 | timeless_mbp | alterego: it'd be nice to have them |
| 14:32.09 | timeless_mbp | Qt is buggy |
| 14:32.14 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:32.16 | *** part/#maemo anthonie (~anthonie@36.Red-88-8-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:32.18 | timeless_mbp | GStreamer and gstreamer components are buggy |
| 14:32.28 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 14:32.34 | alterego | Just wondering if it's a packaging requirement for promotion of libs along with my package. |
| 14:32.36 | MohammadAG | users are buggy |
| 14:32.44 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: those too, yes |
| 14:33.46 | alterego | Each user should come with a bug tracking field? :D |
| 14:34.02 | *** join/#maemo me|kor (~melkor@91-66-109-228-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 14:34.22 | MohammadAG | alterego, they're probably be WONTFIX'd :P |
| 14:34.36 | RST38h | moos evilly |
| 14:35.52 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@212.200.199.30) |
| 14:36.34 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@75-101-64-22.dsl.dynamic.omsoft.com) |
| 14:37.28 | RST38h | alterego: Just have a click-through licensing agreement where user promises to shut up and not complain about any "issues" he finds with your app. |
| 14:37.39 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:37.45 | alterego | I like that |
| 14:38.07 | RST38h | Don't forget to include "accidental loss of family members" and "dementia" on the list of issues covered |
| 14:39.30 | luke-jr | so he can complain about intentional loss of family members? |
| 14:39.48 | luke-jr | or that click-through licensing agreements are invalid? |
| 14:40.56 | RST38h | so he CANNOT |
| 14:42.17 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p4FCBEBB5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:43.27 | timeless_mbp | *hates* packaging |
| 14:43.40 | timeless_mbp | if a ui package foo 0.1-9 depends on bar and baz |
| 14:43.46 | timeless_mbp | and the user has foo 0.1-8 |
| 14:43.55 | timeless_mbp | updating foo doesn't pull in newer versions of bar/baz :( |
| 14:44.53 | luke-jr | why would it? |
| 14:45.54 | MohammadAG | unless you depend on the new version of bar and baz |
| 14:46.05 | MohammadAG | which seems quite umm, reasonable |
| 14:46.06 | Trizt | don't >= work? |
| 14:46.16 | alterego | Yeah |
| 14:46.19 | MohammadAG | exactly |
| 14:46.19 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: convenience to lazy packagers |
| 14:46.34 | MohammadAG | well, lazy packagers are buggy :P |
| 14:46.44 | timeless_mbp | why should i have to constantly update my meta package controls each time i update the transcluded packages |
| 14:46.57 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: that's part of the definition of lazy, yes :) |
| 14:47.10 | timeless_mbp | so, if i have: |
| 14:47.11 | timeless_mbp | ] |
| 14:47.17 | timeless_mbp | Depends: x (>= 1), |
| 14:47.21 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:47.27 | timeless_mbp | X-Foo: hgi |
| 14:47.39 | timeless_mbp | it's ok for me to have a trailing comma? dpkg doesn't care? |
| 14:47.42 | MohammadAG | weren't you depending on bar and baz, not x and y? |
| 14:47.49 | MohammadAG | use consistent examples :P |
| 14:47.53 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: different problem :) |
| 14:47.55 | Trizt | :D |
| 14:48.27 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, hmm, never tried it |
| 14:48.37 | MohammadAG | dpkg-buildpackage is a perl script I think |
| 14:49.23 | MohammadAG | sigh |
| 14:51.25 | luke-jr | timeless_mbp: because you want your meta package to depend on newer versions? |
| 14:51.37 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: ? |
| 14:51.43 | luke-jr | [09:46:45] <timeless_mbp> why should i have to constantly update my meta package controls each time i update the transcluded packages |
| 14:51.53 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: but that's busy work |
| 14:52.04 | alterego | I should really create a local mirror of the maemo repositories so I can work on my own autobuilder stuff without caining my bandwidth |
| 14:52.08 | timeless_mbp | it's also the reason that Maemo5 updates suck |
| 14:52.11 | luke-jr | make them all the same version and use variables |
| 14:52.32 | timeless_mbp | if there was a way for Maemo5 to mean "show this item if any of its dependencies have newer versions available" |
| 14:52.37 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, hah, HAM :P |
| 14:52.42 | timeless_mbp | then we'd have been able to do easier updates |
| 14:52.45 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, users should be using apt-get |
| 14:53.23 | timeless_mbp | reminds MohammadAG that a user by definition doesn't use apt-get |
| 14:53.39 | timeless_mbp | hey, does zenity have a curses mode? |
| 14:53.59 | timeless_mbp | doesn't seem to have x11 |
| 14:55.30 | MohammadAG | Segmentation fault ha |
| 15:08.25 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-189-117.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 15:08.43 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.105.150) |
| 15:11.47 | alterego | You've been getting a lot of those recently :P |
| 15:12.02 | alterego | I'm about to head home now. |
| 15:12.36 | Trizt | waves to alterego |
| 15:12.54 | alterego | is feeling way too fat again .. |
| 15:13.02 | alterego | Think I might have eaten a bit tooo much |
| 15:13.12 | Dassu | hmm :( |
| 15:13.16 | Trizt | nah, that's impossible, take some more |
| 15:13.29 | Dassu | I have a problem of not gaining any weight |
| 15:13.31 | nox- | thats the problem with holiday seasons... |
| 15:13.52 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:14.02 | alterego | Yeah, my mom made me a goody bag :D |
| 15:14.08 | Dassu | alterego: it is important for my body to receive enough energy fo muscle growth. Any tips for that? |
| 15:14.26 | alterego | Protein :) |
| 15:14.45 | alterego | You need to excercise though. |
| 15:15.00 | Dassu | :o I do excercise once a week |
| 15:15.35 | timeless_mbp | alterego: so... |
| 15:15.45 | timeless_mbp | you have the ability to control how messages download |
| 15:16.02 | timeless_mbp | options are "Headers only", "Preview", "Full message" |
| 15:16.08 | timeless_mbp | there needs to be a label |
| 15:16.14 | timeless_mbp | "Download" doesn't work |
| 15:16.26 | timeless_mbp | I could use "Message headers only", "Message preview" and "Full message" |
| 15:16.30 | timeless_mbp | sound ok? |
| 15:16.45 | alterego | Yeah, sounds good :) |
| 15:16.54 | timeless_mbp | hrm, "Message previews" and "Full messages" ? |
| 15:17.12 | alterego | I don't think that matters. |
| 15:17.17 | alterego | It's implied .. |
| 15:17.30 | alterego | I prefer the singular form anyway, don't know why :) |
| 15:17.35 | timeless_mbp | yeah, i do too |
| 15:17.42 | timeless_mbp | the problem i had was 'headers' threw me |
| 15:17.54 | timeless_mbp | but thinking about it, it means headers for *one* message |
| 15:18.06 | alterego | Yes, exactly. |
| 15:18.09 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@217.151.117.60) |
| 15:18.42 | timeless_mbp | oh brother |
| 15:18.49 | timeless_mbp | so, there's a checkbox "Sync sent items" |
| 15:18.55 | timeless_mbp | an account has "Sent" and "Sent items" |
| 15:19.01 | timeless_mbp | i don't know what "sent items" is |
| 15:19.02 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 15:19.33 | timeless_mbp | oh, and for kicks... |
| 15:19.43 | timeless_mbp | the accounts i'm using are configured to "Sync sent items" |
| 15:20.29 | timeless_mbp | the Sent folder has 2 items, and Sent items has 1 item (not the same as either of the two in Sent) |
| 15:20.48 | timeless_mbp | Dear lazy maemo nokia messaging web, "WTF does this widget do?" |
| 15:21.17 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: you claimed you use Nokia Messaging? |
| 15:21.41 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 15:22.01 | timeless_mbp | can you open account settings for nm, in synchronization, is "Sync sent items" checked? |
| 15:22.06 | timeless_mbp | if so, can you tell me what it does? |
| 15:22.20 | timeless_mbp | if not, would you be willing to risk trying it and then telling me what it does? :) |
| 15:22.20 | timeless_mbp | thanks |
| 15:23.34 | MohammadAG | It syncs your sent folder with the one on the web afaik |
| 15:23.45 | MohammadAG | so you can see sent items from gmail.com (for example) on the N900 |
| 15:23.58 | MohammadAG | and vice versa, emails sent from the N900 show on gmail.com |
| 15:24.27 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: right |
| 15:24.34 | timeless_mbp | is that "Sent" or "Sent items" ? |
| 15:24.52 | timeless_mbp | or does it effectively sync "Sent" with "Sent items"? |
| 15:25.10 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 15:25.48 | timeless_mbp | so the fact that it's out of sync here is an anomaly? oh good |
| 15:25.55 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@149.80-203-123.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:26.15 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: and if you send a message using gmail.com it'll appear in "Sent" via nokia messaging? (eventually) |
| 15:26.26 | MohammadAG | it should |
| 15:26.28 | MohammadAG | checks |
| 15:26.34 | timeless_mbp | thanks |
| 15:27.04 | MohammadAG | yep |
| 15:27.11 | alterego | Anyhow, bbiab |
| 15:27.11 | MohammadAG | sent items from gmail.com are on my device |
| 15:27.20 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: in 'Sent' |
| 15:27.26 | timeless_mbp | (as opposed to 'Sent items') |
| 15:27.54 | MohammadAG | checks the string he hes |
| 15:27.59 | MohammadAG | has* |
| 15:28.14 | timeless_mbp | not yet localized by me, coming up in about an hour |
| 15:28.24 | timeless_mbp | once i get these silly corners understood |
| 15:28.31 | MohammadAG | heh, it decided to get stuck |
| 15:28.38 | timeless_mbp | ah! that's more like it! :) |
| 15:28.41 | MohammadAG | yes, in "Sent" |
| 15:29.04 | timeless_mbp | i presume 'Sent items' also has the same content? :) |
| 15:29.07 | MohammadAG | wonders why they use a GtkButton for New message |
| 15:29.18 | MohammadAG | but only in the Nokia Messaging window |
| 15:29.27 | MohammadAG | the rest of modest uses a HildonButton |
| 15:29.34 | timeless_mbp | hrm |
| 15:29.39 | timeless_mbp | how are you determining this? |
| 15:29.45 | timeless_mbp | is too lazy to pull up the source |
| 15:29.47 | *** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 15:29.49 | nidO | the difference between "sent" and "sent items" is purely poor coding and laziness |
| 15:29.54 | MohammadAG | it's still loading lol |
| 15:30.05 | timeless_mbp | nidO: not true |
| 15:30.16 | timeless_mbp | w/o checking this check box, 'Sent' and 'Sent items' are divorced |
| 15:30.17 | MohammadAG | for the Gtk vs hildon thing, you can clearly see it from the styling |
| 15:30.26 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: what theme? |
| 15:30.32 | timeless_mbp | one is a local folder and the other is a remote folder |
| 15:30.33 | MohammadAG | default one |
| 15:30.37 | timeless_mbp | hrm |
| 15:30.41 | MohammadAG | hildon buttons have a gradient |
| 15:30.44 | nidO | yes true, "sent" is the folder name that's been used by mailservers for the best part of 2 decades for sent mail |
| 15:30.47 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: :o |
| 15:30.49 | MohammadAG | Gtk buttons are gray with no gradient |
| 15:30.56 | timeless_mbp | yeah, i misunderstood how many levels of nm there were |
| 15:31.04 | timeless_mbp | nidO: not true |
| 15:31.07 | nidO | then client devs (mainly stemming from outlook express) started defaulting to calling a sent items folder as "sent items" |
| 15:31.14 | MohammadAG | 2 I think |
| 15:31.16 | nidO | which then gets created by the client |
| 15:31.29 | MohammadAG | the mainwindow, which feeds folders to modest |
| 15:31.34 | MohammadAG | or that's how I think it does it |
| 15:31.48 | MohammadAG | that main window (for nm) uses a GtkButton |
| 15:31.55 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: accounts list, folder list, folder |
| 15:32.08 | timeless_mbp | i was looking at folder list and went into folder and saw no difference |
| 15:32.12 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 15:32.15 | timeless_mbp | i needed to exit accounts list to get to modest |
| 15:32.17 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, |
| 15:32.17 | timeless_mbp | and then i saw |
| 15:32.22 | MohammadAG | the Sent items isn't bad coding |
| 15:32.31 | MohammadAG | it's bad user understanding :P |
| 15:32.35 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 15:32.42 | MohammadAG | that's you subscribed to your folder on Nokia Messaging's settings site |
| 15:32.52 | MohammadAG | the folder on gmail.com is called Sent items |
| 15:32.59 | MohammadAG | rename it to something else, and it'll be changed in modest |
| 15:33.18 | MohammadAG | so it's not a string from modest, it's sent from the server |
| 15:33.18 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: if you sync, will a new folder be created for Sent items that are synceD? |
| 15:34.00 | MohammadAG | If you unsubscribe from the folder, and have the option ticked, your sent items will appear in sent |
| 15:34.19 | timeless_mbp | i can't subscribe to folders w. nokia messaging, right? |
| 15:34.21 | MohammadAG | "Sent items" is the folder you're subscribed to here http://email.nokia.com/account/home.action |
| 15:34.25 | MohammadAG | you can |
| 15:34.36 | MohammadAG | and there's a bug which no one checked/fixed |
| 15:34.53 | MohammadAG | bug 8089, I think I reported it a year ago |
| 15:34.54 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8089 Clicking notifications for e-mails in folders displays an error |
| 15:35.35 | timeless_mbp | eh? we support /<bug#> ? |
| 15:35.54 | MohammadAG | huh? |
| 15:36.36 | timeless_mbp | oh interesting |
| 15:36.42 | timeless_mbp | maybe bugzilla does support that notation |
| 15:36.44 | timeless_mbp | has never used it |
| 15:36.56 | timeless_mbp | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/100000 does a redirect to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100000 |
| 15:36.57 | povbot` | Bug 100000: was not found. |
| 15:37.06 | timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/8089 doesn't actually redirect |
| 15:37.07 | povbot` | Bug 8089: Clicking notifications for e-mails in folders displays an error |
| 15:37.20 | MohammadAG | it does afaik |
| 15:37.30 | MohammadAG | yep, it does |
| 15:37.32 | timeless_mbp | not a redirect |
| 15:37.34 | MohammadAG | it was added recently |
| 15:37.37 | timeless_mbp | the urlbar here doesn't change |
| 15:37.46 | MohammadAG | true |
| 15:37.52 | timeless_mbp | oh joy |
| 15:37.55 | timeless_mbp | new folder gives me: |
| 15:37.59 | timeless_mbp | [v] Inbox |
| 15:38.13 | Trizt | you have a lot of inboxes |
| 15:38.16 | timeless_mbp | [H] Drafts (1) |
| 15:38.23 | timeless_mbp | [^] Outbox |
| 15:38.32 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:38.45 | timeless_mbp | [=) Nokia Messaging |
| 15:38.56 | timeless_mbp | [=) account1@whatever |
| 15:39.05 | timeless_mbp | [=) account1@whatever / Drafts |
| 15:39.21 | timeless_mbp | [=) account2@somewhere |
| 15:39.24 | timeless_mbp | [=) account2@somewhere / Drafts |
| 15:39.25 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 15:39.48 | timeless_mbp | i guess one of the inboxes is for whatever, one is for somewhere, and the other is a generic one? |
| 15:40.00 | timeless_mbp | heaven help me if i want to know which is which! |
| 15:40.29 | timeless_mbp | Trizt: and, i don't, i think MohammadAG would have 5, i only have 3 ! :) |
| 15:40.38 | MohammadAG | yeah, they aren't merged |
| 15:40.50 | timeless_mbp | but how do you know which is which? :) |
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| 15:42.07 | timeless_mbp | oops |
| 15:42.10 | timeless_mbp | i did something bad |
| 15:42.14 | timeless_mbp | i tried to create a folder |
| 15:42.20 | timeless_mbp | and i don't have the keys for the account |
| 15:42.46 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@S0106001839e2f52f.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 15:42.47 | timeless_mbp | hrm, actually, it worked eventually |
| 15:44.31 | MohammadAG | has 3 emails accounts |
| 15:44.36 | MohammadAG | and 10 folders in one |
| 15:44.56 | timeless_mbp | you had gmail, hotmail, live and ovi mail |
| 15:44.59 | timeless_mbp | which did you lose? |
| 15:45.25 | MohammadAG | wonders how you remember that |
| 15:45.33 | MohammadAG | I gave my ovi account to a friend |
| 15:45.34 | timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8089#c2 |
| 15:45.36 | povbot` | Bug 8089: Clicking notifications for e-mails in folders displays an error |
| 15:45.45 | timeless_mbp | bugzilla never forgets :) |
| 15:46.01 | MohammadAG | ha |
| 15:46.47 | timeless_mbp | is still amused by "Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Mess..." |
| 15:47.36 | MohammadAG | it wasn't like that pre-1.2 I think :P |
| 15:47.38 | timeless_mbp | it could say "Sent using Nokia Messaging from my Nokia..." |
| 15:47.46 | MohammadAG | It was Sent from my mobile computer using Nokia Messaging |
| 15:47.58 | timeless_mbp | yeah they made it shorter |
| 15:48.04 | MohammadAG | no |
| 15:48.08 | timeless_mbp | too bad they didn't make the preview button less stupid |
| 15:48.13 | MohammadAG | they sorta confirmed that the N900 was the only M5 device |
| 15:48.34 | timeless_mbp | did you see the button? |
| 15:48.34 | RST38h | "Somehow sent by N900 in spite of all the bugs" |
| 15:48.53 | MohammadAG | which one? |
| 15:49.28 | timeless_mbp | looks for the pictures |
| 15:50.45 | timeless_mbp | http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/nokmess/Screenshot-20090101-083158.png |
| 15:50.53 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.73.131.127) |
| 15:51.27 | MohammadAG | lol! |
| 15:51.44 | timeless_mbp | thought that was quite special |
| 15:52.36 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 15:52.38 | MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, |
| 15:52.49 | MohammadAG | they connected the pressed() (or whatever it is in GTK) the function |
| 15:53.00 | MohammadAG | try to scroll from the button |
| 15:53.28 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: which button? |
| 15:53.32 | timeless_mbp | the signature one? |
| 15:53.40 | MohammadAG | the signature one |
| 15:53.50 | timeless_mbp | oh right |
| 15:53.55 | timeless_mbp | had trouble doing that |
| 15:54.07 | timeless_mbp | i didn't really think about what it meant |
| 15:54.14 | timeless_mbp | i thought they were trying to be "helpful" |
| 15:54.36 | MohammadAG | nope, wrong signal |
| 15:56.17 | *** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio92@unaffiliated/kerio92) |
| 15:56.34 | MohammadAG | is sometimes amazed at how bad some stuff is coded on maemo |
| 15:56.57 | MohammadAG | couldn't they have used HildonPannableArea in the mediaplayer? |
| 15:57.23 | timeless_mbp | is amazed that MohammadAG is only *sometimes* amazed by this :) |
| 15:57.30 | MohammadAG | it took me 6 hours to understand and experiment with delegates properly, but surely someone at Nokia would know that |
| 15:57.33 | *** join/#maemo xDaReaperx_ (~chatzilla@117.198.249.111) |
| 15:57.35 | Trizt | I'm trying to use qt-desginer to make a UI, but I don't really manage to get things to look the same on the N900 as it did on the computer, what is the geometry I should use for the window when using menu? |
| 15:58.05 | MohammadAG | 800x450, use layouts and set the layout for MainWindow |
| 15:58.27 | MohammadAG | basically, you can have a layout of 1x1 pixels, and it's stretched when the layout is set |
| 15:58.52 | MohammadAG | have a look at http://gitorious.org/n900-hostmode/hostmode-gui |
| 15:59.06 | MohammadAG | damn that's old |
| 15:59.11 | Trizt | one of the vertical/horizontal/grid/form I guess you mean? |
| 16:01.30 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 16:01.36 | timeless_mbp | cries |
| 16:01.39 | timeless_mbp | merging failed |
| 16:01.42 | MohammadAG | use a combination of both, you can never get it right with one ;) |
| 16:02.35 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 16:02.44 | Trizt | I used the qtabwidget, and I been down on 800x400, but still part of it gets outside the screen |
| 16:03.41 | Trizt | and buttons usually I have to make huge or else they will be too small on n900 |
| 16:03.58 | MohammadAG | umm |
| 16:04.20 | MohammadAG | QMainWindow::setCentralWidget(ui->objectNameOfQTabWidget); |
| 16:07.41 | RST38h | Fitting. |
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| 16:23.33 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 16:23.36 | timeless_mbp | hates merging |
| 16:23.43 | timeless_mbp | is terribly confused |
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| 16:25.20 | timeless_mbp | oh great |
| 16:25.22 | timeless_mbp | my merge failed |
| 16:29.44 | Trizt | is away for a while or some days |
| 16:33.53 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:33.53 | timeless_mbp | -"Deleting a contact will also remove it from the server." |
| 16:33.54 | timeless_mbp | +" Deleting this contact will also remove it from %s." |
| 16:34.03 | timeless_mbp | wonders where that came from |
| 16:34.40 | timeless_mbp | joy, abi break |
| 16:34.42 | timeless_mbp | loves those |
| 16:35.24 | timeless_mbp | hey, does anyone have a tool to detect abi breaks? |
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| 16:37.45 | alterego | timeless_mbp: ldd ? |
| 16:37.54 | timeless_mbp | alterego: for .mo files |
| 16:38.03 | timeless_mbp | alterego: .mo files are generally sent to printf() |
| 16:38.04 | alterego | .mo? |
| 16:38.12 | timeless_mbp | passing garbage values to printf() is a *BAD* idea |
| 16:38.24 | timeless_mbp | e.g. printf("%s %s %s %s"); |
| 16:38.27 | alterego | dunno what .mo is :) |
| 16:38.39 | timeless_mbp | .mo is a compiled string table used by gettext |
| 16:38.47 | timeless_mbp | roughly "it's a walking disaster" |
| 16:38.56 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:39.15 | *** join/#maemo Pavel (~pavel@pool-173-75-5-189.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:39.20 | alterego | Unfortunately not, but I'm sure it wouldn't be to hard to knock something up. |
| 16:39.24 | timeless_mbp | especially if it's used by idiots |
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| 16:39.53 | timeless_mbp | the general rule in C for an exported function is: once it's exported, you can't change its arguments, return value, or behavior |
| 16:40.06 | timeless_mbp | the same rule needs to apply to po/mo strings |
| 16:40.08 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, at what point in a project would you say is the right one to consider translations and internationalisation? :) |
| 16:40.10 | MohammadAG | what's abi? |
| 16:40.18 | MohammadAG | new fancy word for api? |
| 16:40.21 | lcuk | application binary interface |
| 16:40.22 | timeless_mbp | MohammadAG: application binary interface |
| 16:40.26 | alterego | application binary iface |
| 16:40.32 | lcuk | you can have same API but compiled for different cpus |
| 16:40.44 | lcuk | or settings of same cpu |
| 16:40.52 | lcuk | which effect the ABI :P |
| 16:40.53 | alterego | Basically it's the linking api between shared libraries and executables. |
| 16:40.58 | timeless_mbp | people tend to think of APIs in terms of source level compatibility |
| 16:41.07 | timeless_mbp | ABI is binary compatibility |
| 16:41.21 | timeless_mbp | you can say "this source file compiles with that source file" |
| 16:41.44 | timeless_mbp | but if the binary you generated from <this source file> doesn't work with the binary generated from <that source file> |
| 16:41.52 | timeless_mbp | and both binaries are in the wild, then you've made a mess |
| 16:42.17 | timeless_mbp | people tend to try to work around getting this right by doing "packaging" |
| 16:42.40 | timeless_mbp | which is basically like trying to string duct tape between exposed wires and volatile explosives |
| 16:42.46 | timeless_mbp | it might work.. for a little while |
| 16:42.46 | alterego | A classic example is how in meego we're moving to hardfp, which means you can't run chroots for armv7l debian anymore. |
| 16:42.54 | alterego | Or maemo bins, or palm pre |
| 16:43.22 | timeless_mbp | notes that in theory one could create stubs to deal w/ that |
| 16:43.38 | timeless_mbp | if this was being done by ms or apple, they'd have been created too |
| 16:43.51 | timeless_mbp | but no, we're linux, getting things right isn't a requirement :) |
| 16:43.56 | timeless_mbp | nor is offering a migration path |
| 16:44.13 | timeless_mbp | (no, i'm not bitter) |
| 16:44.21 | timeless_mbp | (but i am hungry) |
| 16:44.23 | alterego | But we have a good speed boost, so it's a worthwhile trade off, and hopefully ubuntu and emdebian will catch up with the hard float stuff. |
| 16:44.40 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, indeed, and shown elegantly in windows land by being able to run VisiCalc binary |
| 16:44.57 | lcuk | built in 1981 |
| 16:46.43 | lcuk | http://www.danbricklin.com/visicalc.htm for curious folks, download link is on that page |
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| 16:54.42 | DocScrutinizer | wasn't there a tool called Qt-Linguist, which deals with that kinda stuff? |
| 16:55.34 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~lolloo@2.91.14.67) |
| 16:56.22 | timeless_mbp | > He asked back: "Why didn't you just use a ratio?" I replied: "That wouldn't have been as exact." What I didn't tell him was that the program code to do division wasn't working yet... |
| 16:56.38 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: i don't think it deals w/ telling you when you're being stupid |
| 16:56.41 | DocScrutinizer | (the printf("%s") issue that is) |
| 16:58.10 | *** join/#maemo Malin- (~malin@ti0189a340-0217.bb.online.no) |
| 17:03.03 | timeless_mbp | yeah, i don't think i've seen anything in Qt Linguist to handle that |
| 17:03.08 | timeless_mbp | i could be wrong, i only used it for a bit |
| 17:03.19 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@host-94-248-202-80.kabelnet.hu) |
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| 17:14.16 | sivang | alterego: are their images already with hardfp meego for N900? |
| 17:14.28 | sivang | hey timeless_mbp |
| 17:14.34 | timeless_mbp | hi |
| 17:14.43 | timeless_mbp | is busy cursing some idiots |
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| 17:14.53 | sivang | timeless_mbp: heh, cable company? |
| 17:15.11 | timeless_mbp | nah, people who think it's ok to change a string's contents |
| 17:15.21 | sivang | timeless_mbp: translators? |
| 17:17.29 | timeless_mbp | well, technically ui designers doing stupid things to fixed strings which breaks existing translations (me) |
| 17:17.49 | timeless_mbp | the coders should of course refuse to allow such crap, but they follow orders like good little robots |
| 17:18.23 | Venemo | hey guys |
| 17:19.28 | *** join/#maemo jave (~user@118.173.61.245.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 17:21.23 | *** join/#maemo juk (~user@221.221.16.108) |
| 17:22.33 | juk | what is bridging in android channel topic? ...no bridging Android apps to this channel, ... |
| 17:24.41 | alterego | What? |
| 17:25.07 | juk | sorry i said bye there and saw it after part |
| 17:25.48 | juk | and called n900 next step :P |
| 17:28.20 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 17:28.23 | juk | wheres official chrome can downloaded? or firefox is better |
| 17:28.35 | jave | I'm trying to compile an app using libvorbis for ogg support, but there doesnt seem to be libvorbis in scratchbox? |
| 17:30.11 | luke-jr | juk: MicroB is better |
| 17:30.12 | juk | jave i think gstreamer pack should have it |
| 17:30.20 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-239-72.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 17:30.39 | jave | I think my apt-get skillz sucks |
| 17:31.06 | juk | luke, i see |
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| 17:35.07 | ShadowJK | jave: probably in extras-*? |
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| 17:37.31 | juk | jave: Filename: pool/fremantle/free/libv/libvorbis/libvorbis0a_1.2.0.dfsg-3.1maemo0_armel.deb |
| 17:38.04 | jave | thats the dev deb? |
| 17:38.47 | juk | jave: i can paste my sources.list |
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| 17:40.27 | juk | jave: if u care ofcouse |
| 17:41.23 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs25.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 17:41.59 | timeless_mbp | juk: x86 or arm scratchbox? |
| 17:42.57 | timeless_mbp | hrm, not that it matters we have both |
| 17:43.16 | juk | timeless_mbp: juk stands for my initial chars in my name |
| 17:43.37 | timeless_mbp | ... |
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| 17:44.19 | jave | juk: that would be apreciated |
| 17:44.42 | timeless_mbp | ~pastebin |
| 17:44.43 | infobot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude. |
| 17:44.47 | timeless_mbp | => juk |
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| 17:45.42 | timeless_mbp | trumee: *sigh* |
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| 17:45.58 | timeless_mbp | anyone here remember how to detect pr1.3 in terms of packages? |
| 17:46.39 | juk | timeless_mbp: thanks, choosing... |
| 17:47.02 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51029 |
| 17:47.20 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: grr |
| 17:47.28 | timeless_mbp | goes to see how this code does it today |
| 17:47.51 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, ? |
| 17:48.58 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:49.03 | timeless_mbp | is what i'm doing right now |
| 17:49.30 | timeless_mbp | should probably continue along that path |
| 17:49.38 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 17:49.46 | juk | timeless_mbp: sorry im using ubuntu's pastbin it fastest |
| 17:49.58 | timeless_mbp | juk: doesn't matter to me |
| 17:50.07 | timeless_mbp | just so long as you don't spam the channel :) |
| 17:52.00 | juk | timeless_mbp: ah |
| 17:52.17 | timeless_mbp | a sources.list can easily be >3 lines |
| 17:54.26 | juk | jave? |
| 17:54.31 | jave | yep |
| 17:54.56 | juk | get it while hot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/547757/ |
| 17:55.13 | jave | Thanks |
| 17:56.04 | timeless_mbp | juk: and you did apt-get update at some point? |
| 17:56.36 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: more or less that link sucks |
| 17:56.49 | timeless_mbp | almost all of the suggestions there are likely to fail for real users :) |
| 17:56.49 | juk | jave are welcome as long as you work for better of n900 and all us |
| 17:57.44 | juk | timeless no i did not |
| 17:57.58 | timeless_mbp | you should :) |
| 17:58.33 | juk | why would i? |
| 17:59.32 | sivang | timeless_mbp: in the sysinfo page? |
| 17:59.37 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 17:59.41 | timeless_mbp | sivang: i'm a program |
| 17:59.42 | sivang | timeless_mbp: osso- stuff does give the version info |
| 17:59.57 | timeless_mbp | sivang: osso- stuff fails when people brick their system, no? |
| 18:00.05 | timeless_mbp | e.g. remove the metapackage |
| 18:00.09 | timeless_mbp | use a non standard kernel |
| 18:00.09 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 18:00.39 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 18:00.48 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:00.51 | timeless_mbp | gets terribly confused by a maze of twisty versions all dissimilar |
| 18:01.26 | jave | "apt-get update" seems to hang for me in scratchbox |
| 18:01.50 | sivang | timeless_mbp: true |
| 18:01.55 | sivang | timeless_mbp: what are you trying to achieve? |
| 18:02.02 | timeless_mbp | something that actually works =b |
| 18:02.19 | sivang | timeless_mbp: well, if the system is bricked, there's not much you can ask for |
| 18:02.38 | timeless_mbp | sivang: removing the meta package or changing the kernel doesn't actually brick it |
| 18:02.47 | timeless_mbp | but it more or less breaks all of the assumptions on that page |
| 18:02.56 | sivang | timeless_mbp: do we expect normal users to do that? |
| 18:03.01 | timeless_mbp | yes. |
| 18:03.12 | sivang | timeless_mbp: normal users fire the terminal and try that? :) |
| 18:03.29 | sivang | timeless_mbp: or is it possile from HAM? |
| 18:03.30 | timeless_mbp | sivang: my target audience is anyone who could wander into this channel |
| 18:03.41 | timeless_mbp | well, you can replace your kernel w/ ham :) |
| 18:03.43 | timeless_mbp | so yeah |
| 18:03.58 | sivang | you mean in an upgrade process? |
| 18:04.04 | SpeedEvil | Mmmm. Honey roast ham. |
| 18:04.06 | timeless_mbp | no, i mean as a package |
| 18:04.19 | timeless_mbp | there are packages to replace your kernel |
| 18:04.23 | *** join/#maemo mtnbkr (~mtnbkr@75-150-91-17-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:04.41 | sivang | timeless_mbp: well, how do we put something on it that will always work? |
| 18:04.51 | timeless_mbp | sivang: ? |
| 18:04.54 | sivang | timeless_mbp: exclue it from pkg mgmt? make it readonly? |
| 18:05.03 | sivang | timeless_mbp: Sorry, I'm not following I guess |
| 18:05.03 | timeless_mbp | sivang: you're addressing the wrong problem |
| 18:05.06 | timeless_mbp | indeed |
| 18:05.14 | timeless_mbp | there's nothing wrong w/ people changing components of the system |
| 18:05.17 | sivang | timeless_mbp: I'm interested about the problem |
| 18:05.23 | sivang | *ion |
| 18:05.25 | sivang | *in |
| 18:05.25 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@91.119.9.15) |
| 18:05.26 | timeless_mbp | but anything else that wants to deal w/ components of the system needs to be careful |
| 18:05.35 | sivang | timeless_mbp: what is it? |
| 18:05.52 | timeless_mbp | localization replacement which should work in 1.1, 1.2 or eventually 1.3 |
| 18:06.08 | timeless_mbp | there were breaks between 1.2 and 1.3 in addition to the breaks from 1.1 to 1.2 |
| 18:06.29 | sivang | I see |
| 18:06.31 | timeless_mbp | note that it's perfectly legal for someone to upgrade from 1.0 to 1.1 to 1.2. to 1.3 |
| 18:06.37 | sivang | right |
| 18:06.44 | timeless_mbp | and my package should survive being installed between any of those upgrades |
| 18:06.47 | sivang | I wonder what happens if you start from 1.0 now |
| 18:06.59 | timeless_mbp | iirc it'll do incremental upgrades |
| 18:07.02 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@host-94-248-202-80.kabelnet.hu) |
| 18:07.05 | sivang | so you want to be ablet o use different translation infra between versions? |
| 18:07.07 | juk | so hows meego? sucking i hear |
| 18:07.10 | timeless_mbp | probably 1.0 => 1.0.1 => 1.1 => 1.2 => 1.3 |
| 18:07.19 | timeless_mbp | sivang: not infra |
| 18:07.25 | *** join/#maemo |uen| (~uen@p5084A945.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:07.27 | timeless_mbp | but *need* to use different strings |
| 18:07.32 | sivang | timeless_mbp: ah! |
| 18:07.33 | sivang | I see |
| 18:07.37 | sivang | interesting problem indeed. |
| 18:07.39 | timeless_mbp | because some idiot changed foo_string from "%s" to "%s %s" |
| 18:07.45 | sivang | oh geesz |
| 18:07.52 | timeless_mbp | thus if i use a "%s %s" string in an older version... |
| 18:07.53 | timeless_mbp | BAD |
| 18:07.55 | sivang | understands the problem to its fullest now |
| 18:08.05 | nox- | eww |
| 18:08.16 | timeless_mbp | note: technically more than one idiot |
| 18:08.43 | timeless_mbp | (that makes it all better, right?) |
| 18:08.52 | sivang | so there's gotta be a way then, I'm sure DocScrutinizer or someone will know :) |
| 18:09.07 | timeless_mbp | sivang: i already deal w/ it for 1.1=>1.2 |
| 18:09.14 | timeless_mbp | i just need to pick the right condition for 1.2=>1.3 |
| 18:09.23 | timeless_mbp | and using a meta package or similar is absolutely wrong |
| 18:09.24 | sivang | how do you deal with it there? |
| 18:09.29 | sivang | timeless_mbp: I gree completely |
| 18:09.37 | timeless_mbp | i check for the package that broke the abi fo strings in 1.2 :) |
| 18:09.41 | timeless_mbp | which was libhildon |
| 18:09.53 | timeless_mbp | for =>1.3 it looks like i get to check address book |
| 18:09.57 | timeless_mbp | since that's the offender i can see |
| 18:10.07 | timeless_mbp | but first i need to deal w/ a mismerge or three |
| 18:10.14 | timeless_mbp | dealing w/ packaging is a minor hickup |
| 18:10.35 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:10.35 | timeless_mbp | -msgstr "Ovi software (%d)" |
| 18:10.35 | timeless_mbp | +msgstr "Nokia software (%d)" |
| 18:10.37 | timeless_mbp | is amused |
| 18:11.54 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: from a Qt-Linguist perspective "foo %s" and "foo %s %s" are distinct strings that can coexist |
| 18:12.05 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: linguist is stupid |
| 18:12.24 | timeless_mbp | a localization tool is only as useful as its understanding of inputs |
| 18:12.26 | DocScrutinizer | ok, nevermind then |
| 18:12.41 | timeless_mbp | you're looking at input "foo %s" output "%s FOO" |
| 18:12.54 | timeless_mbp | the input is "foo_1" the output was "foo %s" the new output is "foo %s %s" |
| 18:13.10 | timeless_mbp | and linguist would need to compare either a pot or a pair of po's to recognize that there's an abi break |
| 18:13.38 | timeless_mbp | note: in some ways nokia gets things right |
| 18:13.50 | timeless_mbp | if i want to *fix* the US English for a program, I shouldn't have to source hack it |
| 18:13.59 | timeless_mbp | and i shouldn't be screwed by a code string freeze |
| 18:14.16 | timeless_mbp | you solve this by using identifiers in the code instead of _("what you might see %s") |
| 18:14.26 | timeless_mbp | but if you use identifiers, you must *not* recycle them |
| 18:14.29 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~lolloo@77.31.34.13) |
| 18:14.35 | timeless_mbp | and that's where nokia gets things wrong |
| 18:14.59 | juk | yaiks |
| 18:15.00 | timeless_mbp | -- the other problem with using _("%s - %s") is that you typically fail to provide context |
| 18:15.18 | alterego | My gfs mum got me this neat new mouse. |
| 18:15.22 | timeless_mbp | which means that if you need to translate one as "%s / %s" and another as "%s : %s", your screwed |
| 18:16.00 | timeless_mbp | again, using unique identifiers avoids that version of problems |
| 18:16.09 | timeless_mbp | but again, you can't recycle an identifier to mean *something else* |
| 18:16.16 | timeless_mbp | identifiers are cheap, (unless you're idiots) |
| 18:16.23 | DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: nonsense. Qt tr() is looking up translation in a table with primary key 'foo %s', |
| 18:16.38 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer-8: again, that's not how the code works |
| 18:16.45 | timeless_mbp | it uses tr("my_identifier") |
| 18:16.48 | DocScrutinizer-8 | then the resulting translation is fed to printf() |
| 18:16.55 | timeless_mbp | you're making a stupid assumption |
| 18:17.06 | timeless_mbp | and ignoring the fact that i'm *telling* you that we don't use _() or tr() that way |
| 18:17.11 | timeless_mbp | and we shouldn't |
| 18:17.20 | timeless_mbp | for the reason i describe in the "%s - %s" problem |
| 18:18.07 | timeless_mbp | s/your screwed/you're screwed/ |
| 18:18.13 | timeless_mbp | needs breakfast, lunch and dinner |
| 18:18.32 | DocScrutinizer-8 | obviously |
| 18:19.15 | juk | yaiks goes here |
| 18:19.44 | timeless_mbp | hrm, maybe address book was in the 1.2 abi break? |
| 18:19.49 | timeless_mbp | kinda got totally lost |
| 18:19.58 | timeless_mbp | a maze of twisty strings all similar |
| 18:20.11 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:20.11 | timeless_mbp | -msgstr "Keyboard layout switched to %s" |
| 18:20.11 | timeless_mbp | +msgstr "Keyboard layout swapped" |
| 18:20.27 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer-8: think of that as tr("inpu_ib_quick_layout_switch") |
| 18:20.36 | timeless_mbp | inpu_ib_quick_layout_switch is the primary key |
| 18:20.52 | timeless_mbp | and one .ts file has "Keyboard layout swapped" and another has "Keyboard layout switched to %s" |
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| 18:27.23 | DocScrutinizer-8 | now let me say for all I understand how tr() is supposed to work that's a completely wrecked and gimme-trouble way to use it |
| 18:28.32 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 18:28.37 | timeless_mbp | tr() and _() are stupid |
| 18:28.49 | DocScrutinizer-8 | tr() when missing .po is using the original string. So original and translation MUST have same number of %variables |
| 18:28.54 | timeless_mbp | the way that they were "designed" to work fail for the reasons i've described above for "%s - %s" |
| 18:29.15 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer-8, the way timeless explained it is more sensible than using printf style things in - simply for the case of duplication as he outlined |
| 18:29.38 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer-8: and simply put the "fallback case" is something which package management should solve |
| 18:29.42 | lcuk | and missing translation files are a bug in themselves |
| 18:29.47 | timeless_mbp | you shouldn't be allowed to provide a localization that's incomplete |
| 18:29.56 | DocScrutinizer-8 | uhu |
| 18:29.58 | timeless_mbp | that's a *reasonable* requirement |
| 18:30.04 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, for fremantle we attempted afaik to make EN_GB as default fallback |
| 18:30.12 | timeless_mbp | otoh, requiring localizers to be able to split themselves in n ways is a mess |
| 18:30.31 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3? :) |
| 18:30.51 | timeless_mbp | or do you mean that the device's libc will pull in en_GB strings automatically? |
| 18:30.52 | lcuk | hold on I will find the bug, i cant recall off hand whether we had to roll it back |
| 18:30.56 | lcuk | gimme a mo |
| 18:31.03 | timeless_mbp | i'm going to hunt dinner |
| 18:31.06 | timeless_mbp | else i starve |
| 18:31.09 | timeless_mbp | which isn't a good idea |
| 18:31.11 | lcuk | sounds better |
| 18:31.13 | lcuk | enjoy \o |
| 18:31.36 | alterego | looks at his 1.0 roadmap |
| 18:31.42 | timeless_mbp | picks the n900 w/ a sim and working stuff |
| 18:31.59 | DocScrutinizer-8 | well, you're free to mess up a simple concept any way you like. For the sake of 'duplicity' (whatever that means) and losing elementary properties like failsafe fallback |
| 18:32.02 | alterego | You have more than one? :D |
| 18:32.14 | *** join/#maemo timeless_xchat (~timeless@80-186-102-34.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:32.32 | juk | in the mean time did you know that Christ was circumsized |
| 18:32.48 | alterego | Me too |
| 18:32.49 | timeless_xchat | he was jewish. .. |
| 18:32.56 | alterego | I mean, he was a jew ... |
| 18:33.05 | timeless_xchat | kinda hard to skip |
| 18:33.16 | timeless_xchat | at age 8 days |
| 18:33.25 | juk | yaiks |
| 18:34.11 | timeless_xchat | fwiw, there's a way to do it on the 9th day w/o having been sick |
| 18:34.32 | timeless_xchat | doubts anyo |
| 18:34.44 | timeless_xchat | doubts anyone here would know |
| 18:35.03 | DocScrutinizer-8 | now I finally get why diablo is coming up with shit like 'tana_fi_home_thumbnail' since years - finally \o/ |
| 18:35.36 | sivang | does maemo carry /etc/lsb-release? |
| 18:35.41 | sivang | if it would that would be useful |
| 18:35.49 | timeless_xchat | the general rule is to do it on the 8th day even if it's the sabbath |
| 18:36.11 | timeless_xchat | lsb-release *isn't* useful |
| 18:36.31 | sivang | since once the pkg gets installed, it is by spec not supposed to get removed |
| 18:36.38 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 18:36.43 | sivang | timeless_xchat: well, it is sueful if you use it so :) |
| 18:36.47 | timeless_xchat | the general exception is if the boy is ill |
| 18:37.11 | timeless_xchat | sivang, part of lsb is rpm... |
| 18:37.23 | sivang | ? |
| 18:37.25 | sivang | timeless_xchat: ? |
| 18:38.25 | ShadowJK | yeah you need rpm for lsb :) |
| 18:39.37 | sivang | onmeego? |
| 18:39.43 | sivang | hrm, or dpkg on debian? |
| 18:39.45 | *** join/#maemo brekpoint (~breakpoin@46.188.157.178) |
| 18:40.03 | ShadowJK | lsb requires rpm support |
| 18:40.14 | ShadowJK | iirc |
| 18:40.15 | sivang | wait wait a sec |
| 18:40.27 | sivang | so, lsb required that rpm will be possible to use on the platform? |
| 18:40.36 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~rm_you@pool-98-111-67-24.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:40.38 | timeless_xchat | more or less |
| 18:40.47 | ShadowJK | nods |
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| 18:41.25 | sivang | god |
| 18:41.33 | sivang | $DEITY |
| 18:41.36 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 18:41.41 | sivang | I'm a bit surprised |
| 18:43.16 | ShadowJK | suspects they picked rpm because most non-rpm distros have tools to deal with rpms anyway |
| 18:43.49 | juk | timeless_xchat: is there a special qualification for the job |
| 18:44.22 | sivang | juk: for circumsicion? |
| 18:44.48 | juk | sivang: yes |
| 18:45.13 | sivang | juk: I think you have to be a Rebbi |
| 18:45.32 | sivang | juk: with special training for this, nowdays most of them also hold M.D |
| 18:45.42 | sivang | juk: well, not most, but those most wanted in the cemermony |
| 18:45.45 | sivang | :) |
| 18:45.50 | DocScrutinizer | now by reading backscroll, I notice what you meant with duplicity and '%s - %s' problem. Qt *has* context for that. You either set it explicitly, or it's implicitly taken from source-file name, and maybe also function/object name |
| 18:46.58 | timeless_xchat | sivang : no |
| 18:47.09 | timeless_xchat | traditional a father would do it |
| 18:47.18 | timeless_xchat | mohel is the term to google |
| 18:47.30 | sivang | timeless_xchat: interesting. I was sure you had to take a mohel for that. |
| 18:47.43 | DocScrutinizer | this way your "identifiers" are perfect when looking like "foo %s" or even "%s", and you can distinguish between "%s" in one location and "%s" in another. And tell that apart from "%s %s" |
| 18:47.45 | juk | timeless_xchat: point taken |
| 18:47.57 | DocScrutinizer | and have sane fallback when pot is missing |
| 18:48.01 | timeless_xchat | sivang : traditionally = milenia ago |
| 18:48.06 | sivang | timeless_xchat: ah :) |
| 18:48.20 | DocScrutinizer | but meh, Nokia gets it right sometimes :-P |
| 18:49.00 | luke-jr | Feast of the Circumcision is on Jan 1 fwiw |
| 18:49.00 | timeless_xchat | docscrutinizer: people don't get context right |
| 18:49.10 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA |
| 18:49.22 | timeless_xchat | it's almost universally unused |
| 18:49.31 | DocScrutinizer | ok so let's fuck it up fubar, so maybe it gets better than - QED |
| 18:49.34 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: how do you define the context in this case? where the string is useD? mid? |
| 18:50.12 | timeless_xchat | docscrutinizer, screwing up identifiers takes considerably more talent than missing context |
| 18:50.22 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: all that is explained to epic length and detail in Qt linguist manual |
| 18:50.23 | timeless_xchat | but yes, our ui designers are talented |
| 18:50.55 | timeless_xchat | sivang, gettext has a dgettext and a something gettext where you provide context |
| 18:51.07 | timeless_xchat | but the reality is that it isn't done right/well/ever |
| 18:51.36 | timeless_xchat | and it requires *much* more understanding on the part of coders than using identifiers |
| 18:51.50 | timeless_xchat | also people make various stupid assumptions |
| 18:51.51 | sivang | timeless_xchat: ah okay, so setting "app context" like you do from gtk? |
| 18:52.01 | timeless_xchat | like "english is a useful fallback" |
| 18:52.19 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:52.19 | sivang | timeless_xchat: most apps just define it for the "app" with default, e.g. not providing policy at least as I seen |
| 18:52.35 | timeless_xchat | if it were useful, or if the user were aware, the user wouldn't use l10n and would stick to english |
| 18:52.39 | timeless_xchat | fewer bugs |
| 18:53.13 | SpeedEvil | timeless_xchat: In principle, a language you are partially fluent in is better than no understandable message. |
| 18:53.15 | sivang | timeless_xchat: I think so as well, but users don't. |
| 18:53.17 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_xchat: LANG=C is a useful fallbeck by definition |
| 18:53.22 | alterego | Heh, I should probably add translation support to my app/s. |
| 18:53.26 | DocScrutinizer | fallback even |
| 18:53.27 | SpeedEvil | That does kinda assume that that language is english though |
| 18:53.34 | timeless_xchat | i suppose dcgettext is the equivalent. .. |
| 18:54.17 | timeless_xchat | speedevil: terrible principle |
| 18:54.42 | timeless_xchat | note that _random_long_string_i_can_google is useful |
| 18:54.53 | sivang | so I can chose domains based on the language for example? |
| 18:55.03 | timeless_xchat | short unintelligible english string missing context is not |
| 18:55.20 | sivang | o based on sepcifci msgids I know are changed wrt to argument interpolation order and stuff? |
| 18:55.20 | timeless_xchat | sivang : you aren't supposed to know about the language |
| 18:55.32 | sivang | timeless_xchat: right, so based on "problematic" msgids? |
| 18:55.34 | nox- | also often prefers english locale bc translations are often bad/wrong/not understandable |
| 18:55.40 | timeless_xchat | but basically you might have "new"/"file" |
| 18:55.47 | timeless_xchat | and "new"/"folder" |
| 18:55.59 | timeless_xchat | both might have the string "new" |
| 18:56.08 | sivang | nox-: I've never used Hebrew in computers, when someone addresses me in Hebrew I tend to ask him to accept my english typing as I developed no typing skills in it. |
| 18:56.18 | nox- | heh |
| 18:56.18 | timeless_xchat | but a language might need e.g. feminine or masculine for one/the other |
| 18:56.40 | timeless_xchat | nox: indeed |
| 18:56.47 | timeless_xchat | localizations tend to be awful |
| 18:56.52 | nox- | exactly |
| 18:57.00 | timeless_xchat | it doesn't help that the originals tend to suck |
| 18:57.02 | DocScrutinizer | ok, >>short unintelligible english string missing context is not<< So Nokia decided it's better to have TANA_FI_HOME_THUMB is better then, rather than have "user %s's homescreen" and provide context in a way Qt tr() was designed to do it |
| 18:57.17 | timeless_xchat | but put slightly bad in, get extremely bad out |
| 18:57.30 | timeless_xchat | docscrutinizer : err |
| 18:57.32 | Arkenoi | noticed an annoying thing about n900: if all you have is weak car charger DON'T let it power itself off. Otherwise it will look like that: "see, we have some charger connected, let's power on! oops. battery is empty, shutting down. again. and again.". If you power it off manually, it will have time to charge good enough to survive boot sequence. |
| 18:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | and your whole rant of last 2h proves how much better it is |
| 18:57.40 | timeless_xchat | maemo doesn't use Qt |
| 18:57.51 | timeless_xchat | so please don't list tr() as the problem |
| 18:58.04 | timeless_xchat | and really, googling for tana_ whatever would work |
| 18:58.27 | sivang | Arkenoi: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9700 |
| 18:58.28 | povbot` | Bug 9700: media art not syn'd with artist name and song playing |
| 18:58.43 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I'm out. couldn't bother less to argue about that new old stupidity in maemo |
| 18:58.56 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: hehe, cheers Doc |
| 18:59.23 | sivang | Arkenoi: creds go to DocScrutinizer for giving the input for this FEA |
| 18:59.33 | timeless_xchat | one other design feature of identifiers: |
| 18:59.42 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.20.221) |
| 18:59.46 | timeless_xchat | you can immediately recognize when a localization is broken |
| 18:59.54 | timeless_xchat | and what to fix |
| 19:00.33 | timeless_xchat | if someone uses "PERCENTs", you might never realize it isn't translated properly |
| 19:00.48 | sivang | I'm out as well, be back later. |
| 19:00.58 | timeless_xchat | doesn't know where percent is on this keyboard |
| 19:01.19 | alterego | On the N900 |
| 19:01.28 | alterego | It's under sym menu :/ |
| 19:01.45 | alterego | It's kindof annoying for me actually. |
| 19:01.45 | timeless_xchat | alterego, i don't have sym menu :) |
| 19:02.14 | alterego | I might replace dollar and euro to pipe and percent .. |
| 19:02.28 | alterego | Well, euro â |
| 19:02.44 | alterego | I might still use dollar a lot when scripting. |
| 19:03.00 | timeless_xchat | ~$|/\"'@ |
| 19:03.06 | timeless_xchat | is my bottom row |
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| 19:04.19 | Arkenoi | today is the first time i see a usb flash drive that does not work with n900 |
| 19:05.29 | timeless_xchat | you adapt usb often? |
| 19:06.04 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@71-211-130-195.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 19:07.43 | Arkenoi | not really |
| 19:07.46 | Arkenoi | sometimes |
| 19:08.01 | Arkenoi | the connector is ok, i tried with another flash and it worked |
| 19:08.15 | timeless_xchat | how big is the drive? |
| 19:08.24 | timeless_xchat | could be exfat |
| 19:08.51 | Arkenoi | 16gb |
| 19:10.55 | timeless_xchat | afaiu, the SD "standard" is somewhat of a joke |
| 19:11.12 | timeless_xchat | there are lots of levels |
| 19:11.16 | luke-jr | alterego: wtf is â� |
| 19:11.21 | timeless_xchat | and then there are the actual cards |
| 19:11.26 | luke-jr | Euro is ⬠|
| 19:11.58 | timeless_xchat | sounds like you guys have encoding issues |
| 19:12.21 | timeless_xchat | iirc a-hat-prefix means latin-1 |
| 19:12.24 | alterego | luke-jr: that was me pressing the Euro button on the N900 through xterm, ssh, screen, and irssi :P |
| 19:12.33 | *** join/#maemo Malin_ (~malin@ti0189a340-0950.bb.online.no) |
| 19:12.41 | luke-jr | timeless_xchat: I thought Latin-1 was an 8-bit encoding |
| 19:12.50 | luke-jr | alterego: it didn't work right |
| 19:13.08 | alterego | Obviously ... |
| 19:13.39 | timeless_xchat | luke-jr, when decoders don't like things they tend to be split |
| 19:14.35 | timeless_xchat | oh cute |
| 19:14.48 | timeless_xchat | xchat here is using "latin/unicode hybrid" |
| 19:14.49 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@79-140-5-154.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) |
| 19:15.53 | juk | well thanks for warmth, good night |
| 19:18.19 | *** join/#maemo janne123 (~lolnoob@YKMMDCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:18.20 | timeless_xchat | kicks browser-ui-find |
| 19:18.23 | janne123 | hi! |
| 19:18.30 | timeless_xchat | the way it passes enter to web pages is ... |
| 19:18.34 | timeless_xchat | awesome :( |
| 19:19.07 | janne123 | i have reflash problem with my nokia n900 and i must do it because i'll sell it tomorrow |
| 19:19.27 | janne123 | i tried flasher 3.5 but i |
| 19:19.29 | timeless_xchat | If you input the pound sign as UTF-8 and convert back to ISO 8859-1, it gains a capital A hat (Â) before the pound sign. |
| 19:19.29 | timeless_xchat | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1372544/character-encoding-issue-strange-behaviour-from-pound-signs--with-utf-8-ie6 |
| 19:19.30 | janne123 | it doesnt work* |
| 19:19.42 | janne123 | can someone help me? |
| 19:19.49 | timeless_xchat | luke-jr, so i got it backwards :) |
| 19:21.58 | *** join/#maemo Roksteady (~mikaelf@pdpc/supporter/active/roksteady) |
| 19:23.09 | timeless_xchat | would probably be happy trading sym for percent |
| 19:23.34 | *** join/#maemo janne123 (~lolnoob@YKMMDCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:23.35 | luke-jr | timeless_xchat: I'm UTF-8 though |
| 19:23.40 | janne123 | hi |
| 19:23.59 | timeless_xchat | luke-jr, his wire is twisty |
| 19:24.08 | janne123 | i need help reflashing nokia n900, could someone help me?:) |
| 19:24.36 | ShadowJK | ~flashing |
| 19:24.36 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:25.14 | janne123 | i read it but i have little problem |
| 19:25.15 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-76-167-134-60.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:25.21 | psycho_oreos | any of you guys use instinctiv without microSD card inserted into n900? if so does it work without errors? |
| 19:26.17 | ShadowJK | fails at mind reading |
| 19:27.11 | psycho_oreos | ShadowJK, at my question? |
| 19:28.25 | ShadowJK | no at the guy that's just saying "it doesnt work" without explaining what he did and what happened next |
| 19:28.28 | ShadowJK | :P |
| 19:28.41 | psycho_oreos | oh |
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| 19:29.28 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@87-100-132-231.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 19:29.55 | DocScrutinizer | janne123: yes, someone *could* - if and only if you're providing sufficient info about what you did and where it failed and how |
| 19:30.02 | janne123 | C:\Program Files\maemo\flasher-3.5>flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_ |
| 19:30.03 | janne123 | PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R |
| 19:30.03 | janne123 | flasher v2.5.2 (Sep 24 2009) |
| 19:30.03 | janne123 | RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: %m |
| 19:30.03 | janne123 | C:\Program Files\maemo\flasher-3.5> |
| 19:30.23 | janne123 | sry, i jusdt tested it again:) |
| 19:30.52 | janne123 | so why it doesn't work? |
| 19:31.10 | timeless_xchat | are you an admin? |
| 19:31.10 | ShadowJK | no idea |
| 19:31.11 | psycho_oreos | seems like you split the filename in half and the rest of the command |
| 19:31.13 | timeless_xchat | is it w64? |
| 19:31.17 | DocScrutinizer | your file is not located in current directory? |
| 19:31.32 | janne123 | damn |
| 19:31.41 | janne123 | i just knew problem |
| 19:31.42 | janne123 | testing... |
| 19:31.47 | timeless_xchat | hrm, |
| 19:32.04 | timeless_xchat | thinks docscrutinizer wins the tea leave reading contest |
| 19:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | janne123: afaik even windows supports tab filename expansion now |
| 19:32.29 | timeless_xchat | nt4 supported it... |
| 19:32.40 | alterego | Has done for a while in "dos prompt" |
| 19:33.00 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~rm_you@pool-98-111-67-24.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:33.04 | timeless_xchat | doesn't recall if 9x ever got that, it might not have |
| 19:33.16 | janne123 | it works |
| 19:33.40 | janne123 | i forgot to move file to right directory |
| 19:33.48 | ShadowJK | You probably also want to flash both images, without the -R flag, as this one only replaces the OS and not your files and settings. |
| 19:33.56 | DocScrutinizer | janne123: enter >> flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_ << then pres tab key. It should expand the RX-51_ part to full filename. If it doesn't you need find actual location of file |
| 19:33.57 | timeless_xchat | yeah, docscrutinizer wins the tea leave reading contest |
| 19:33.58 | psycho_oreos | recalls there was a version of windows where you can enable tab completion for command prompt under tweakui |
| 19:34.29 | timeless_xchat | psycho: nt4/5 had interesting defaults |
| 19:34.51 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.221.118) |
| 19:34.51 | janne123 | how u explain this, when i bought phone and old user used opera browser, i installed it with fast application manager and it remembered passwords etc |
| 19:34.53 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: good point |
| 19:35.22 | janne123 | should i free up rootfs or something? |
| 19:35.31 | psycho_oreos | timeless_xchat, hehe its been awhile since I last tampered with an old windows machine/setup |
| 19:36.02 | psycho_oreos | janne123, the passwords might not be saved under the flashed location, it might be stored under /home or the eMMC portion |
| 19:36.26 | DocScrutinizer | janne123: read the wiki page about flashing. FIRST flash eMMC/VANILLA, THEN flash COMBINED as you did above |
| 19:36.29 | timeless_xchat | psycho: from memory, the defaults were sane as of 5.1 |
| 19:36.38 | timeless_xchat | (xp) |
| 19:37.10 | ShadowJK | janne123, yeah that's what I'm saying, you want to flash both images. The one you just did, but not with the -R flag which causes reboot and is warned against everywhere, and then the emmc image (there's a "vanilla" in the filename) |
| 19:37.25 | DocScrutinizer | (s)he's gone? |
| 19:37.52 | psycho_oreos | timeless_xchat, heh so maybe win2000 may not have it then :) |
| 19:37.59 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nope, eMMC *first* |
| 19:38.01 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 19:38.12 | timeless_xchat | psycho, it wasn't that it didn't support it |
| 19:38.19 | timeless_xchat | it was more a matter of defaults |
| 19:38.32 | timeless_xchat | i think ms was worried about breaking something |
| 19:38.42 | *** join/#maemo janne123 (~lolnoob@YKMMDCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:38.44 | timeless_xchat | so they left the default behavior |
| 19:38.50 | janne123 | oh, only network problem |
| 19:38.53 | timeless_xchat | the nice thing about cmd |
| 19:39.07 | psycho_oreos | then again win2000 had nt kernel |
| 19:39.09 | DocScrutinizer | janne123: wb |
| 19:39.18 | DocScrutinizer | janne123: read the wiki page about flashing. FIRST flash eMMC/VANILLA, THEN flash COMBINED as you did above |
| 19:39.20 | timeless_xchat | is that you have keys for generic completion and for directory completion |
| 19:40.02 | janne123 | i flashed succesfully so why i should read flashing quides anymore? |
| 19:40.11 | timeless_xchat | to the extent that my desktop pc runs anything, it runs w2k |
| 19:40.28 | timeless_xchat | janne123, because you did it wrong |
| 19:40.36 | timeless_xchat | there are two flash targets |
| 19:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | janne123: you came here and asked for help. If you don't like the advice you get, please rethink |
| 19:40.49 | timeless_xchat | and you generally want to flash both at once |
| 19:41.14 | timeless_xchat | janne123, but as docscrutinizer notes, it's poor form to ask for help and then ignore it |
| 19:41.23 | janne123 | i wanted to reflash, is this wrong now?:) |
| 19:41.38 | timeless_xchat | go READ the wiki |
| 19:41.45 | timeless_xchat | don't do things |
| 19:41.46 | janne123 | okay:( |
| 19:41.46 | timeless_xchat | go READ the wiki |
| 19:41.54 | DocScrutinizer | you might have private data on eMMC 32GB storage, which isn't cleared by what you did |
| 19:41.58 | psycho_oreos | janne123, unless you want to leave the previous user's data intact you might want to also flash eMMC |
| 19:42.00 | ShadowJK | If you want to wipe the N900 before selling it, then you want to flash both images. You just reflashed the OS. Your old settings and files are still there, like how you described what happened with opera. |
| 19:43.08 | janne123 | oh i understand |
| 19:43.15 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 19:43.20 | janne123 | but next problem, how i find quide;) |
| 19:43.49 | DocScrutinizer | sorry? |
| 19:43.54 | DocScrutinizer | ~flashing |
| 19:43.54 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:43.57 | DocScrutinizer | ??? |
| 19:47.28 | janne123 | eMMC is the 32GB memory what i try to format, right? |
| 19:48.09 | timeless_xchat | go READ the wiki |
| 19:48.58 | *** join/#maemo woodong50_______ (~moodapo@211.244.137.136) |
| 19:48.59 | janne123 | Flashing the eMMC in the N900 <-- this part of quide, i think:) |
| 19:49.49 | *** join/#maemo RevdKathy (~RevdKathy@5ace03c1.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:51.10 | timeless_mbp | is home |
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| 19:54.55 | janne_123 | so, i flash eMMC file like in quide and then pr1.3. file like before today WITHOUT booting? |
| 19:56.35 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 19:58.23 | janne_123 | not too hard, i hope |
| 19:59.23 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@89.142.221.118) |
| 20:00.07 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.73.135.165) |
| 20:00.54 | timeless_mbp | it's just a matter of following instructions... |
| 20:01.12 | *** join/#maemo malin__ (~malin@ti0189a340-1471.bb.online.no) |
| 20:02.21 | GAN900 | Jaffa, mwkn yes/no? |
| 20:02.23 | janne_123 | i just think why i cant include -R, what -R means in this thing? |
| 20:03.19 | ShadowJK | -R means reboot |
| 20:03.49 | janne_123 | oh |
| 20:03.58 | janne_123 | big fail if i write it:) |
| 20:04.08 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 20:04.09 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@87-100-132-231.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 20:04.48 | DocScrutinizer | I hope my recent edit made the wiki even a bit more clear (though not regarding -R) |
| 20:05.34 | janne_123 | but when i flash FIASCO, why i cant reboot because i have flashed eMMC before that? |
| 20:05.41 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@75-101-64-22.dsl.dynamic.omsoft.com) |
| 20:06.08 | DocScrutinizer | janne_123: actually, since new sequence of 1.:eMMC/2.:rootfs got into wiki, the -R thing isn't such a big fail anymore |
| 20:06.24 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@212.200.199.30) |
| 20:06.26 | *** join/#maemo Trizt (nobody@h-168-17.A192.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 20:06.30 | janne_123 | okay |
| 20:06.40 | janne_123 | so i can write -R now? |
| 20:06.56 | DocScrutinizer | you *can* on second flashing |
| 20:07.26 | DocScrutinizer | you probably need to power down device manually after first flashing |
| 20:07.42 | janne_123 | second flashing? do u mean i shouldnt write -R now when i flash it? |
| 20:07.53 | ShadowJK | iirc you can do them after eachother while keeping usb connected |
| 20:08.21 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's what we all would expect, but which turned out not to work usually |
| 20:08.50 | ShadowJK | hm, it worked for me when I did it :/ |
| 20:08.52 | DocScrutinizer | janne_123: no, please don't use -R |
| 20:09.21 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: without intermediate reboot? |
| 20:09.38 | janne_123 | DocScrutinizer, thanks, it was clear answer, i forget -R in this time:) |
| 20:09.52 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, yeah |
| 20:10.21 | ShadowJK | I flashed without -R, device stays in flashing mode, I flashed the second image |
| 20:10.22 | DocScrutinizer | amazing |
| 20:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | I never tried by myself, but heard several complaints about it doesn't work |
| 20:11.45 | *** join/#maemo van_ (~sr@217.118.92.31) |
| 20:12.31 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: time to publish a flashing script, I guess :-) |
| 20:15.39 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-76-167-134-60.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:18.19 | van_ | merry christmas |
| 20:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | echo "please remove battery and plug in the N900 USB to PC. Then hit Enter on PC" && read && echo "please insert the battery now" && $FLASH-EMMC-WITHOUT-MINUSR && echo "flashing eMMC done, now starting to flash COMBINED. If process hangs, please remove and re-insert battery" && $FLASH-COMBINED && echo "flashing process succeeded!" |
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| 21:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | umm |
| 21:00.25 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 21:00.25 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: :) |
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| 21:07.16 | RST38h | Evening. Or something. |
| 21:07.45 | RST38h | DocScrutinizer: How is suffering tonight? |
| 21:09.00 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: real fun. can't decide whether to head out searching for food, or investigate some weird cookie from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php containing a token to download img-files |
| 21:09.35 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (~Firebird@ip98-169-165-246.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 21:09.35 | RST38h | Isn't it...mm...a bit too late for foraging? |
| 21:10.02 | Arkenoi | what is error -71 for USB device? |
| 21:10.48 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs11.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 21:12.12 | lcuk | hey RST38h \o |
| 21:12.17 | RST38h | ehlo lcuk |
| 21:15.05 | DocScrutinizer | wonder if "POST /nokia_N900.php device=3472728636&submit=send" is needed, or if it will suffice to "POST /nokia_N900.php device=3472728636&agree=I+accept" |
| 21:15.44 | Arkenoi | actually that problematic flash drive *works*. but it takes about 2-3 minutes to successfully enumerate |
| 21:15.55 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 21:17.47 | DocScrutinizer | also wonders how to send a HTTP POST at all, with anything different to a plain netcat |
| 21:18.03 | DocScrutinizer | and obviously not with a browser :-) |
| 21:18.41 | DocScrutinizer | aiui wget can't do that? |
| 21:19.48 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: which brand and model? |
| 21:20.42 | Arkenoi | there are "device descriptor read/64 error -71"s and "device not accepting address XX, error -71" before that. |
| 21:21.11 | Arkenoi | jetflash transcend 16Gb |
| 21:21.54 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: yeah, this read/64 error -71(?) seen frequently. No idea what that means |
| 21:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | I'd have to dig it up in source |
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| 21:30.15 | DocScrutinizer | (cookie) also will that cookie always have a name of nokiaN900d11agreed22 ? |
| 21:30.17 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 21:32.13 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I think there's no sane way to implement a custom FIASKO img file download, with low effort (i.e. inside a script) |
| 21:33.05 | DocScrutinizer | FIASCO* |
| 21:33.16 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: been faster than you :-D |
| 21:33.25 | *** join/#maemo perlite_ (~perlite@111-240-221-153.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 21:33.26 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 21:33.40 | timeless_mbp | sorry, i'm staring at nokia-messaging |
| 21:33.41 | DocScrutinizer | corrected my typo before you did :-) |
| 21:33.47 | timeless_mbp | good for you :) |
| 21:33.52 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 21:35.05 | DocScrutinizer | talking bout typos: |
| 21:35.24 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 21:35.26 | timeless_mbp | kicks something |
| 21:35.29 | DocScrutinizer | throws an 'a' at http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php flsher |
| 21:35.31 | timeless_mbp | goes back to do things again |
| 21:35.43 | timeless_mbp | file a bug, there are people who actually fix those pages :o |
| 21:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 21:35.57 | DocScrutinizer | mehehehe |
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| 21:47.30 | timeless_mbp | Trizt: ok, so, i've gotten a slightly better set up |
| 21:47.48 | timeless_mbp | unfortunately you get to do the uninstall + reinstall flavor because it isn't a version bump |
| 21:48.00 | timeless_mbp | goes to fish for a better package for a certain file |
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| 22:01.10 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: wouldn't it be reasonable to require that the symbolic name contains a hint about the parameters? Like TANA_FI_FOO_%4dSEC_%sRESULT. This way you'd never experience 're-use of indentifiers on ABI break', and you also would avoid any ABI break on missing translation file, which could otherwise cause a SEGV or whatever |
| 22:01.27 | *** join/#maemo Omegamoon (~egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:01.44 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: one or two teams try doing that |
| 22:01.51 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 22:01.53 | timeless_mbp | the problem with that is it breaks one of the invariants |
| 22:02.06 | timeless_mbp | which is that a user who sees an unlocalized string can file a bug for it |
| 22:02.23 | timeless_mbp | if you have a value of %s = "", then you might end up w/ TANA_FI_FOO__BAR |
| 22:02.36 | DocScrutinizer | yep, I see |
| 22:02.41 | timeless_mbp | and not realize it's actually TANA_FI_FOO_%s_BAR |
| 22:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | assuming the leading part is unique, this wouldn't really break anything, no? |
| 22:04.07 | timeless_mbp | given how dumb our ui designers are |
| 22:04.21 | timeless_mbp | it'd be trivial for them to have TANA_FI_FOO_%d and TANA_FI_FOO_%s |
| 22:04.29 | DocScrutinizer | maybe use TANA_FI_FOO_#%4dSEC_#%sRESULT |
| 22:04.32 | timeless_mbp | if %s is 0, then you're stuck |
| 22:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | oops |
| 22:04.54 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 22:05.00 | timeless_mbp | there's also the case where %s actually expands to *another* identifier |
| 22:05.01 | timeless_mbp | this i |
| 22:05.06 | timeless_mbp | s actually relatively common |
| 22:06.06 | DocScrutinizer | well, a unique delimiter like # between first identifier part and second half parameter list would do |
| 22:06.58 | DocScrutinizer | then teach ui designers everything after # is irrelevant |
| 22:07.12 | DocScrutinizer | they might have heard that before |
| 22:07.15 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 22:07.22 | timeless_mbp | teaching ui designers is clearly hard |
| 22:07.27 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 22:07.36 | timeless_mbp | remember, they're the problem here :) |
| 22:07.38 | DocScrutinizer | k, nm |
| 22:07.56 | DocScrutinizer | just felt like mentioning it a last time |
| 22:08.10 | timeless_mbp | but yeah, things like this are more or less the ways you could approach it |
| 22:08.18 | timeless_mbp | but this last bit is really the killer |
| 22:08.28 | timeless_mbp | ui designers come and go, and no useful training or enforcement comes |
| 22:08.53 | timeless_mbp | to get something that doesn't suck, you'd need to enforce api rules which are stricter than api rules used for C and similar methods |
| 22:09.11 | timeless_mbp | and you'd need someone to actually review ui designs w/ l10n/l12y concerns in mind |
| 22:09.23 | timeless_mbp | apparently around maemo2-3 they had a "process" for this |
| 22:09.35 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 22:09.39 | timeless_mbp | but around maemo4 they discovered it was "overhead" and chose to "drop" it |
| 22:09.55 | timeless_mbp | note that the process almost certainly didn't work |
| 22:10.01 | timeless_mbp | so dropping it wasn't really wrong |
| 22:10.16 | timeless_mbp | (i found errors in maemo2/3 strings just as easily as later ones) |
| 22:10.32 | timeless_mbp | the problem is that while the step is necessary, you need to have someone clueful sitting in that step |
| 22:12.00 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 22:12.25 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@81.200.10.83) |
| 22:12.41 | DocScrutinizer | fed up with nokiaN900d11agreed22 |
| 22:14.54 | Gh0sty | sends DocScrutinizer a duvel |
| 22:15.13 | DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA, could use strace $BROWSER to find out which location user downloaded http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin to |
| 22:15.21 | Gh0sty | that should get your mind off cursing :p |
| 22:15.38 | DocScrutinizer | ~dict duvel |
| 22:16.07 | Gh0sty | !google duvel moortgat |
| 22:16.08 | zgoldberg | Results for duvel moortgat on Google: |
| 22:16.08 | zgoldberg | -- |
| 22:16.21 | Gh0sty | the best belgian beer there is :p |
| 22:16.30 | DocScrutinizer | aaah nice |
| 22:17.01 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, exactly what I planned to do: go out, get a beer, and finally some decent food |
| 22:17.04 | Gh0sty | you never drunk that? :o |
| 22:17.18 | Gh0sty | you should definately come to fosdem then! :P |
| 22:17.23 | Gh0sty | there is a hole in your culture! :P |
| 22:17.36 | Gh0sty | http://www.duvel.be/ |
| 22:18.37 | Gh0sty | great ... a friggin flash website which is broken due to custom implementation of scrollbars |
| 22:18.43 | Gh0sty | marketing people SUCK! |
| 22:19.23 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: grr |
| 22:19.31 | timeless_mbp | why would the repository not have accurate info? |
| 22:19.47 | DocScrutinizer | nspluginviewer: SEGV |
| 22:19.52 | Gh0sty | http://www.duvelmoortgat.be/index.php?id=en-duvel @ DocScrutinizer |
| 22:19.59 | Gh0sty | should give you an idea :p |
| 22:20.16 | Gh0sty | 8.5% |
| 22:20.43 | DocScrutinizer | :-o |
| 22:20.47 | Gh0sty | the -foolish- challenge exists that you get a cash deposit if you drink 10 in 1 hour and can still stand up straight :p |
| 22:21.07 | Gh0sty | most people need to be taken away due to alcohol poisoning :p |
| 22:21.51 | DocScrutinizer | after 10 beer in 1 hour I have even mere volume problems |
| 22:22.01 | Gh0sty | :) |
| 22:22.04 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 22:22.10 | timeless_mbp | *hates* this crap |
| 22:22.11 | Gh0sty | duvel is just too heavy ... its not possible ... :p |
| 22:22.18 | DocScrutinizer | I couldn't drink this amount of tap water |
| 22:22.24 | Gh0sty | me neither :) |
| 22:22.33 | Gh0sty | and I dont do foolish drinking games either |
| 22:22.40 | Gh0sty | I enjoy a beer, a couple of beers |
| 22:22.48 | Gh0sty | but drinking to get drunk ... is not my thing |
| 22:22.55 | DocScrutinizer | and that's what I'll do now |
| 22:23.02 | Gh0sty | enjoy! :) |
| 22:23.04 | DocScrutinizer | find me a beer |
| 22:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 22:23.16 | Gh0sty | I go for a jenever :p p |
| 22:23.26 | Gh0sty | in the bar cabinet downstairs ;) |
| 22:23.56 | *** join/#maemo Ehee (~Ehee@50-32-33-144.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net) |
| 22:24.20 | Ehee | Hi all does anyone know if the N800 USB hardware and Diablo support isochronous I/O? |
| 22:24.33 | Ehee | I have seen some people using web cams in host mode using kernel mods but i cant seem to find if they are using isochronous I/O. I would like to use libusb1 in isochronous mode to pull data from MS kinect and pass the data off via wifi. I have libusb1 and a test app built and the device connected and showing up in /dev/bus/usb... but i get errors when trying to use isochronous transfer to the cam d |
| 22:24.33 | Ehee | evice. |
| 22:25.26 | DocScrutinizer | Ehee: afaik the musb driver is missing the relevant bits |
| 22:26.47 | DocScrutinizer | Ehee: dunno about N800 hardware |
| 22:27.12 | *** join/#maemo micadeyeye (~micadeyey@c-98-220-233-31.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:27.20 | micadeyeye | I have a quick question. I want to build a package on pandaboard(OMAP 4430 processor), and I was wondering if I would be able to install the package on Nokia N900 (OMAP 3430 device). Which the package be successfully installed on the N900? |
| 22:28.05 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 22:28.26 | DocScrutinizer | where's my tea leafes |
| 22:28.46 | timeless_mbp | if you use the right sdk/libraries/headers/compiler/.... |
| 22:29.07 | DocScrutinizer | meh, hop. Better than tea |
| 22:29.43 | micadeyeye | timeless_mbp: thanks. |
| 22:31.06 | Ehee | Doc: could you explain what bits are missing? i am using a custom build of libusb1 to connect so im not sure what parts of musb would be used |
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| 22:46.29 | SpeedEvil | Ehee: musb is Mentor USB - it's the host adaptor in the SoC |
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| 22:47.02 | SpeedEvil | Ehee: The driver is basically rather broken for host-mode, and only works in a very limited fashion. |
| 22:47.34 | SpeedEvil | Ehee: So, ou might need to finish off the driver, and add isochronous mode. I don't know - I've never looked at it from that angle. |
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| 22:54.51 | Ehee | Speed: with a bit more digging and debug output i am getting a message to large error from a call to ioctl in the libusb1 code. It looks like the data being sent to the dev might be exceeding the max packet size. Do you know if /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/usb1/bMaxPacketSize0 is the size of the largest packet that can be sent on the bus for any device? |
| 22:56.27 | SpeedEvil | No idea. |
| 22:56.38 | Ehee | hmm ok |
| 22:56.41 | SpeedEvil | Are you sure it in fact implements isochronus transfers at all? |
| 22:57.03 | Ehee | the code i have, yes it is using iso |
| 22:57.03 | SpeedEvil | The driver is not a complete hostmode driver, bits have been left off |
| 22:57.11 | SpeedEvil | Not the code - the driver |
| 22:57.15 | Ehee | ahh |
| 22:57.31 | Ehee | you mean the host mode driver in the kernel? |
| 22:59.16 | *** join/#maemo ||jess| (~quassel@9.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net) |
| 23:00.00 | Ehee | i aboxm not loading any drivers that are not part of the base kernel. the devices are found and added to /dev... then the code i have uses libusb1 to manualy comunicate with the devices. the code works fine in scratchbox running on ubuntu so my guess is its the kernel usb drivers or the hardware that is causing the issues. |
| 23:00.55 | SpeedEvil | yes - the kernel USB drivers I mean - the host controller. |
| 23:00.59 | SpeedEvil | It is one module. |
| 23:03.21 | Ehee | ok, thanks whats the host mode mod name? |
| 23:04.04 | alterego | h-e-n |
| 23:04.07 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@225.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 23:04.15 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa: cool. |
| 23:04.29 | alterego | Or are you talking specifically kernel module name? |
| 23:04.49 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if it's a module. I think it's built-in. |
| 23:05.08 | alterego | The host mode is a module |
| 23:05.22 | alterego | hcd something or other |
| 23:06.02 | GeneralAntilles | $10 Philippe De Swert is having a Nokia Ninja filled Christmas. |
| 23:06.47 | *** join/#maemo fdv (~fredridv@anakin.ifi.uio.no) |
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| 23:24.11 | GeneralAntilles | Woo, crazy person spamming my photostream. |
| 23:28.19 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, wheres link? |
| 23:28.25 | lcuk | you have some awesome cars on there |
| 23:28.40 | lcuk | camera lens so good it can see back in time? |
| 23:28.46 | lcuk | the model T is cool |
| 23:30.05 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.78.21.206) |
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| 23:35.19 | timeless_mbp | needs a better diff tool |
| 23:35.32 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 23:35.38 | timeless_mbp | anyone have a diff tool which can use \n\n as the line sep? :) |
| 23:35.52 | FauxFaux | sed! |
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| 23:39.55 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5291376083/ |
| 23:39.58 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk: ^ |
| 23:40.23 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk: yeah, often cool cars parked in front of the store. |
| 23:40.25 | lcuk | http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5269401380/in/photostream/ |
| 23:40.32 | GeneralAntilles | I haven't been very good about getting pictures, though. |
| 23:40.39 | lcuk | cool though! |
| 23:40.50 | lcuk | what other stores are nearby then? |
| 23:40.59 | lcuk | or are all these people coming into the bookshop? |
| 23:41.05 | GeneralAntilles | There's a Goodyear rubber store across the street. :P |
| 23:41.06 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah. |
| 23:42.08 | GeneralAntilles | Aperture is mangling my tags. |
| 23:42.16 | GeneralAntilles | must've forgotten a delimiter. |
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| 23:44.03 | psycho_oreos | I wonder if there's an app for line-in audio recording on n900 |
| 23:44.36 | MohammadAG | probably not |
| 23:44.45 | MohammadAG | as you need the 4th pin to switch it to line in |
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| 23:45.34 | psycho_oreos | humm bugger thanks |
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| 23:59.50 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, fresh good milk :-) time for... 51996 |
