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| 00:01.51 | mikki-kun | TDP? |
| 00:02.23 | SpeedEvil | Thermal design power |
| 00:02.50 | SpeedEvil | The maximum thermal output a CPU heatsink should be designed for |
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| 02:18.21 | MohammadAG | god I hate RPM so much :/ |
| 02:18.35 | MohammadAG | error: Package has no %description: kernel-n900 can't even build meego's kernel properly |
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| 03:00.36 | myu | where does the n900 save camera recrodings? |
| 03:02.09 | MohammadAG | DCIM for images and video I think |
| 03:02.18 | MohammadAG | /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM |
| 03:02.44 | ieatlint | ah... good old yahoo... masters of the "oops, we're serving porn to EVERYONE who does an image search and don't know why" |
| 03:03.01 | MohammadAG | night |
| 03:03.15 | ieatlint | recordings may also be on the sd card if they're not in MyDocs |
| 03:03.22 | ieatlint | but also in the folder DCIM |
| 03:03.27 | myu | sd |
| 03:03.34 | myu | yeah that was the problem |
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| 03:03.42 | myu | I recognize dcim from my camera |
| 03:03.51 | myu | but it was in my SD |
| 03:04.38 | ieatlint | should be /media or something |
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| 03:07.28 | myu | yeah .media |
| 03:07.42 | myu | there were two dcims for whatever reason |
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| 03:30.30 | ds3 | \ |
| 03:31.50 | myu | also I cant seem to send video via fmms |
| 03:31.54 | myu | is this normal? |
| 03:32.26 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it mms doesn't do video |
| 03:32.32 | SpeedEvil | Maybe I'm wrong. |
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| 03:35.24 | Jay_BEE | good evening (ugt) |
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| 04:19.44 | ieatlint | mms does video, dunno if fmms supports it |
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| 04:39.38 | Termana | good morning |
| 04:39.57 | lolloo | helloo |
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| 04:45.57 | lolloo | maemo notify on xchat is not working properly for me |
| 04:46.27 | lolloo | it does show balloons but doesnt make light notify or sound or viberate |
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| 05:21.07 | iluminator101 | hey guys i am looking for a digitial compass app for n900 |
| 05:23.00 | comawhite | lolloo, xchat isn't native to n900 |
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| 05:39.58 | lucent | is there an extras of kernel modules compiled for the power kernel on N900 ? |
| 05:40.31 | lucent | I have host mode USB working for enumeration, but my device (a USB serial adapter) needs the mct_u232 driver |
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| 06:00.09 | comawhite | is it safe to use n900 in my unix project name on garage? |
| 06:00.46 | comawhite | it only mentions maemo since it's trademarked, just wonder if n900 is |
| 06:02.26 | comawhite | nevermind just used the name without n900 in it. |
| 06:04.00 | comawhite | hope it gets accepted |
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| 06:07.40 | DocScrutinizer | BlessN900 |
| 06:08.10 | comawhite | ? |
| 06:08.30 | DocScrutinizer | It's even commercial |
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| 06:12.21 | DocScrutinizer | or N900fly, or whatever it's called |
| 06:14.18 | DocScrutinizer | apt-cache search n900|grep n900 |
| 06:14.25 | comawhite | :) |
| 06:14.32 | comawhite | i don't have the sdk on this laptop |
| 06:14.40 | comawhite | wouldn't be worth running on it |
| 06:15.10 | DocScrutinizer | I see :-D |
| 06:16.57 | DocScrutinizer | n900-fmrx-enabler livecast-hildon-n900 n900fly blessn900 man-db-n900 con900 irreco-for-n900 faenza-n900-icons n900ftp |
| 06:17.02 | comawhite | blah I gotta learn javascript :( |
| 06:17.29 | lucent | DocScrutinizer: I'm mildly curious about getting usb evice drivers compiled for my N900 (usb hostmode), how involved is it to get there from an Ubuntu desktop environment? |
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| 06:18.06 | DocScrutinizer | largely depends on the driver |
| 06:18.17 | lucent | it's a usb serial driver, the mct_u232 |
| 06:18.41 | DocScrutinizer | should probably 'just work' |
| 06:18.55 | lucent | but, I would need the driver? |
| 06:19.01 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 06:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | I meant the driver compiling |
| 06:19.28 | lucent | ah, okay I understand you now :) |
| 06:20.19 | lucent | I have not done N900 development, is there some kind of recipe to do it and let the CPU churn while I get a coffee? |
| 06:20.31 | lucent | or, would I need to set up many things on the host system |
| 06:21.57 | ds3 | get a cross compiler and make should suffice |
| 06:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | you usually need a crosscompile environment, like scratchbox or maybe madde (I think the latter is not capable to do driver/kernel development) |
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| 06:22.47 | lucent | good to know thank you, will stick to researching n900 and scratchbox :) |
| 06:23.19 | ds3 | for kernel/modules, you don't need scratchbox |
| 06:23.30 | ds3 | just a x-compiler |
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| 06:24.28 | lucent | ds3: know a good tutorial? |
| 06:25.32 | ds3 | lucent: not really.. it is more or less self explanatory... biggest difference between normal x86 kernel builds is you need to add 2 parameters |
| 06:25.43 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: basically I bet you're absolutely right. I'd boggle to try and set it up by myself though |
| 06:25.54 | ds3 | i.e. to build a zImage for x86, you would do something like 'make zImage' |
| 06:26.17 | ds3 | for the n900 and other ARM platforms - 'make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-none-linux-gnueabi- zImage' |
| 06:26.39 | ds3 | where arm-none-linux-gnueabi- is the prefix for your tool chain...this name is typical for the Code Sourcery stuff |
| 06:26.56 | ds3 | so that's the tutorial in a nutshell :D |
| 06:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | otoh installing sb is just scary enough, so getting x-compiler to work "natively" might be a pleasant experience compared to that :-P |
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| 06:28.11 | ds3 | userland is scary in general thanks to people who like using poorly designed tools ;) |
| 06:28.23 | ds3 | kernel xcompiles easily |
| 06:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: we're talking bout modules anyway |
| 06:29.01 | ds3 | same idea |
| 06:29.06 | lucent | ds3: which sources would I do this from, mainline or something else? I run 2.6.28.10power46 kernel |
| 06:29.11 | ds3 | let me dig up the command line - |
| 06:29.37 | lucent | also thank you very much, for taking the time to explain this |
| 06:30.09 | ds3 | do you want in kernel tree modules or out of tree modules? |
| 06:30.39 | ds3 | lucent: you need to find the author to get that... I suspect it has patches on top of mainline (which is typical)... since it is GPLed.... |
| 06:30.41 | lucent | the driver I seek to make work is part of mainline, it's the usb serial mct_u232 |
| 06:30.51 | ds3 | OH that..that's easy |
| 06:30.53 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: out of maemo tree |
| 06:31.16 | ds3 | get the tree; make ARCH=arm menuconfig; select the kernel (goto option, do 'm'); exit;save config |
| 06:31.30 | ds3 | make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-none-linux-gnueabi- modules |
| 06:31.44 | ds3 | that should generate the mct_u232.ko and probally usbserial.ko |
| 06:31.52 | ds3 | out of tree is a bit trickier |
| 06:32.27 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: you're amazing, while I wait for coffee to kick in and just stare :-) |
| 06:32.33 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: is that on a git server or a tarball? |
| 06:32.45 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: have something to do with this stuff being the day job ;) |
| 06:32.48 | lucent | seconded, amazing. |
| 06:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 06:33.50 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: (tar) no idea, was just talking outa my ass and trying to answer lucent's question |
| 06:33.55 | lucent | shame about packet injection code for wifi hardware driver not being released :( |
| 06:34.23 | ds3 | btw, you can also set ARM and CROSS_COMPILE as environment variables and just put in your ~/.login or .profile or .bashrc or .... |
| 06:34.34 | ds3 | set ARCH I mean |
| 06:34.58 | ds3 | I do it on the command line so it is obvious to me what I am compile |
| 06:35.12 | lucent | ds3 have you played with jrbme at all? (bme replacement) |
| 06:35.46 | DocScrutinizer | oh there is ? :-P |
| 06:35.56 | ds3 | lucent: nope... I am trying to limit the experiments I do on it since the n900 is acting as my always on me laptop |
| 06:36.35 | ds3 | fcam et al really threw me in for a loop |
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| 06:37.07 | ds3 | has anyone used jaikuspot since PR1.2? |
| 06:37.32 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder how the half done version of jrbme has escaped from my laptop X-P |
| 06:38.12 | lucent | hmm, jaikuspot no |
| 06:38.34 | lucent | it's not AP mode though? |
| 06:38.42 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: are you leaving sshd running and have accounts w/o passwords? ;) |
| 06:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: seems since mobilehotspot the yoghurt sport pkg has lost a lot of interest |
| 06:38.51 | lucent | I couldn't make use of Ad-Hoc mode for most of my devices |
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| 06:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: not really :-D |
| 06:39.22 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: mobile hotspot doesn't work for me; donno why |
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| 06:40.38 | DocScrutinizer | umm, I gaher you're a true admin guy, so I suspect you're reluctant to install the power kernel to your "always on you laptop" |
| 06:40.55 | ds3 | I have the power kernel installed |
| 06:41.10 | DocScrutinizer | and have installed hotspot from source or sth |
| 06:41.18 | DocScrutinizer | oh, then scratch that |
| 06:41.21 | ds3 | nope, used app manager to install both |
| 06:41.41 | ds3 | I was playing with it but after the fcam fiasco, I am backing off on experiments |
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| 06:44.12 | DocScrutinizer | lucent: up to date there's no real life advantage for users to fuss around with (jr)bme |
| 06:44.50 | lucent | roger that |
| 06:44.52 | DocScrutinizer | I promised I release a version for h-e-n before new year |
| 06:45.09 | ds3 | is there a jrbme for the N800? |
| 06:45.14 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 06:45.20 | DocScrutinizer | n900 |
| 06:46.15 | ds3 | 'k |
| 06:46.32 | ds3 | has anyone reported a weird problem after using h-e-n where the alerts would go off w/o apparent reason? |
| 06:47.29 | DocScrutinizer | highlight shall be: support for both hostmodes (powering & charging HM), charging from alien chargers at user defined current, support for hotswap, better battery care than bme |
| 06:48.02 | ds3 | hotswap? |
| 06:48.14 | DocScrutinizer | battery hotswap |
| 06:48.47 | ds3 | Oh nice |
| 06:49.04 | ds3 | wonder how well would the phone module behave with that feature |
| 06:49.24 | DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57734 |
| 06:49.48 | lucent | I'm in love with the warning text, already |
| 06:49.51 | DocScrutinizer | modem spoils the show, you need to switch it off - or gamble |
| 06:49.52 | lucent | very good. |
| 06:52.20 | ds3 | I was thinking more of using that to hotswap the SIM |
| 06:52.38 | ds3 | just donno if the phone module will appreciate that |
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| 06:57.13 | lucent | I'm kind of lost, where to obtain the kernel sources, and the titan power kernel patches |
| 06:57.36 | lucent | not from http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html or yes? |
| 06:57.41 | ds3 | wonder if there is a source deb or like? |
| 06:58.06 | lucent | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide seems to be a howto |
| 06:58.10 | lucent | I'll try following it |
| 07:00.29 | RST38h | http://my-maemo.com/index.php?p=6887&c=20 |
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| 07:25.15 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: modem will object to hotswapping SIM. The credentials don't match the SIM anymore (topic PIN etc) |
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| 07:32.59 | cameris | is there a port of gnupg2 for the n810? |
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| 07:42.20 | jase21 | Hi guys! In order to develop PyQt Apps for Maemo 5 which SDK should I download? Should I required any SDK? Can I develop it right on N900? |
| 07:43.19 | jase21 | Please? |
| 07:45.11 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@87.213.105.245) |
| 07:45.33 | jase21 | No one? |
| 07:46.13 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@ppp-93-104-174-193.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 07:46.26 | jase21 | okay then don't speek. |
| 07:46.46 | ieatlint | i don't use python myself, but to develop for it, you'd need what you'd expect |
| 07:46.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | you're aware of python being an interpreting scripting language? |
| 07:46.50 | ieatlint | python, qt, and the bindings |
| 07:47.36 | mece | jase21, khteditor for N900 :) |
| 07:47.38 | ieatlint | you can use the phone, or just write straight pyqt and test it on a desktop... you can also use the sdk to run it in a maemo environment on your computer and have the look/feel as it would on the phone |
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| 07:48.40 | jase21 | okay |
| 07:49.21 | jase21 | So I can write a desktop app using pyqt and straight away run it in maemo, right? (unless I use any maemo specific apis) |
| 07:49.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | jase21: btw IRC is no 0900 phone hotline. It's quite bold to expect answer during 180sec and start to bitch if none |
| 07:50.26 | jase21 | DocScrutinizer51: Sorry. I'll ask at maemo talk then. |
| 07:50.55 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@87.213.105.245) |
| 07:51.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | oh, the time-til-answer is less than 3 minutes there? :-P |
| 07:51.36 | ieatlint | yeah, they get paid well there, i hear |
| 07:51.43 | RobbieThe1st | jase21: I've tried it with PyQT4 and Python and I was able to take something I wrote on my Linux desktop(and ran) and run it from ny N900 without issue |
| 07:51.58 | RobbieThe1st | Admittedly,, the design of some elements is signifigantly different |
| 07:52.13 | jase21 | RobbieThe1st: okay, |
| 07:52.25 | ieatlint | heh, yeah, like qlistwidget and similar |
| 07:52.32 | ieatlint | anyway, me go food |
| 07:53.12 | jase21 | DocScrutinizer51: How you doing? |
| 07:53.26 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell jase21 about question |
| 07:53.40 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@alpskari.asiantuntijat.org) |
| 07:53.53 | jase21 | ~tell |
| 07:53.56 | jase21 | ? |
| 07:54.15 | jase21 | infobot seems to be angry with you Doc |
| 07:54.22 | DocScrutinizer | not at all |
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| 07:54.37 | jase21 | Then why isn't he responding? |
| 07:55.03 | DocScrutinizer | she sent you a private query |
| 07:55.27 | jase21 | Oh, didn't see that. Let me read that. Hmm |
| 07:55.29 | DocScrutinizer | which you obviously haven't noticed yet |
| 07:56.33 | cameris | someone knows of gnupg2 port for n810? only found it for n900. |
| 07:56.36 | jase21 | Yes. I got that. |
| 07:56.54 | jase21 | @doc |
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| 07:57.37 | jase21 | says that he will make Google is best friend. |
| 07:57.45 | DocScrutinizer | bbl |
| 07:57.51 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 07:58.36 | jase21 | Good Night |
| 08:00.12 | *** join/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi) |
| 08:00.58 | RobbieThe1st | Dun Dun Dunnnn: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/15/0153255/Amazon-Taking-Down-Erotica-Removing-From-Kindles |
| 08:01.36 | RobbieThe1st | Hopefully this'll make people think more in terms of censorship when thinking about an ebook reader |
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| 08:10.16 | ploum | Hello |
| 08:10.29 | ploum | How can IÂ start/stop services in Maemo |
| 08:10.38 | ploum | there are not in /etc/init.d/ |
| 08:10.46 | ploum | I thought it was debian-like |
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| 08:14.17 | RobbieThe1st | ploum: There's a special service that does it. I forget the name, but it's something Nokia added. |
| 08:14.42 | ploum | RobbieThe1st, I've tried upstard without success |
| 08:14.54 | ploum | so it's yet another service to launch process ;-) |
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| 08:20.43 | RobbieThe1st | Look at what the camera daemon uses |
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| 08:27.34 | DocScrutinizer | ploum: start xxx; stop xxx |
| 08:27.58 | DocScrutinizer | ploum: it's upstart |
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| 08:28.17 | ploum | DocScrutinizer : doesn't seem to work with dbus |
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| 08:28.53 | DocScrutinizer | errm, dbus? why not? |
| 08:30.26 | DocScrutinizer | /etc/init.d/dbus stop ? |
| 08:31.40 | ploum | > stop dbus |
| 08:31.40 | ploum | stop: Name "com.ubuntu.Upstart" does not exist |
| 08:31.55 | *** join/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de) |
| 08:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ls /etc/rc2.d/|grep dbus |
| 08:31.57 | DocScrutinizer | S20dbus |
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| 08:32.03 | comawhite | yay my project got accepted in garage |
| 08:32.03 | ploum | DocSCrutinizer : no dbus in /etc/init.d, that's why I'm asking |
| 08:32.28 | DocScrutinizer | ploum: then your system is either a) not maemo5, or b) messed up |
| 08:33.07 | ploum | DocScrutinizer : hmm, maybe I messed it up at some point, will investigate that, sorry then |
| 08:33.15 | DocScrutinizer | np |
| 08:34.15 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ls -l /etc/init.d/dbus |
| 08:34.16 | DocScrutinizer | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5641 2009-08-12 10:35 /etc/init.d/dbus |
| 08:35.16 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ls -l /etc/event.d/dbus* |
| 08:35.18 | DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1586 2009-08-14 09:32 /etc/event.d/dbus |
| 08:35.19 | DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1586 2009-08-14 09:32 /etc/event.d/dbus-actdead |
| 08:35.21 | DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 234 2010-01-31 20:06 /etc/event.d/dbus-scripts |
| 08:36.11 | DocScrutinizer | ploum: ^^^ event.d are upstart |
| 08:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | a lot of upstart scripts call init.d scripts in turn |
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| 08:37.35 | DocScrutinizer | (the /etc/event.d/dbus-scripts is irrelevant, it's another pkg) |
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| 08:37.59 | DocScrutinizer | cya |
| 08:38.36 | ploum | thanks :-) |
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| 08:42.20 | DocScrutinizer | ploum: haha, upstart is using dbus :-P |
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| 08:42.51 | DocScrutinizer | interesting question how it is supposed to handle a start dbus command |
| 08:43.46 | DocScrutinizer | your error msg >stop: Name "com.ubuntu.Upstart" does not exist< is related to problems the stop cmd has encountered on dbus |
| 08:44.19 | DocScrutinizer | (at least that's my take on it) |
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| 08:49.56 | ieatlint | i'd guess he's getting that error because it was able to shut down some parts, but not all |
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| 08:50.57 | ploum | interesting |
| 08:50.58 | frals | never seen an ubuntu reference in maemo5 before :o |
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| 08:51.20 | ploum | wait⦠|
| 08:51.26 | ploum | I messed a bit my system |
| 08:51.46 | ploum | Maybe I copied files from my own computer |
| 08:51.52 | ploum | dam |
| 08:52.22 | ploum | I was not in my scratchbox terminal when I copy/pasted ! |
| 08:52.25 | ploum | that explain all |
| 08:52.37 | *** join/#maemo straind (~stupidper@204.111.189.4) |
| 08:52.46 | ploum | I was in a virtual system I'm testing for a server |
| 08:52.50 | ploum | sorry guys ;-) |
| 08:53.38 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 08:57.15 | sivang | morning |
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| 09:06.02 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 09:06.58 | RST38h | "The independent writers who publish on Amazon report that erotica books containing incest are being taken down with no explanation by Amazon, and removed from the Kindles of purchasers of the books." |
| 09:07.06 | RST38h | And good morning to you all |
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| 09:08.10 | chem|st | RST38h: and servers are denied |
| 09:08.48 | RST38h | chem|st: Really? Works from here. |
| 09:08.58 | chem|st | RST38h: wikileaks |
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| 09:09.43 | RST38h | Dunno, works fine |
| 09:09.47 | RobbieThe1st | RST38h: Yea. Brings to light the problem that the OSS people have been talking about for agesa |
| 09:10.02 | ieatlint | damn right, the will of an unknown group of people should be able to force a company to do business with another group they like! |
| 09:10.25 | RobbieThe1st | What? I'm talking about the books removed from people's Kindles |
| 09:10.52 | ieatlint | yeah, it's unfortunate, including the removing it from people who had it... |
| 09:11.34 | chem|st | RST38h: in germany the pirates talk about modding the incest law to make it possible to adopt while forbidden to have own children instead of forbidding incest love at all... |
| 09:11.54 | chem|st | RST38h: ? |
| 09:12.10 | ieatlint | incest is legal in most of the US though |
| 09:12.27 | ieatlint | i believe including in oregon, where amazon is based |
| 09:12.41 | chem|st | ieatlint: explains itself... |
| 09:12.52 | johnsu01 | amazon is based in washington |
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| 09:13.16 | ieatlint | oh, right, hah |
| 09:13.22 | ieatlint | i think it's legal there too :P |
| 09:13.31 | RobbieThe1st | Considering, though, that there are a number of historical works that -weren't- taken down with the same content... |
| 09:13.32 | johnsu01 | intel is oregon :) |
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| 09:13.47 | chem|st | ieatlint: the US have proofen to follow an even darker path to hell than germans did 60 years ago |
| 09:13.50 | RobbieThe1st | Like(at least according to Slashdot) the Bible... |
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| 09:14.19 | chem|st | ieatlint: that btw hits only religious people, to have politics and religion at least mentioned once a day ;) |
| 09:14.19 | ieatlint | chem|st: save your rhetoric for people willing to listen |
| 09:14.19 | cehteh | whimps ... server DoS against amazon are so childish .. if you want to do a real DoS then order everything you ever wanted from amazon |
| 09:14.30 | cehteh | .. and just send it back when it arrives :P |
| 09:14.51 | chem|st | cehteh: good idea |
| 09:14.56 | Termana | ieatlint, are you sure about that, I thought incest was ILLEGAL in US except for like second-cousins and further out or something like that? (Although different in certain states) |
| 09:15.07 | cehteh | thats actually legal .. and harms them more than server attacks |
| 09:15.24 | RobbieThe1st | Murder is illegal too - But we have huge amounts of stories about that |
| 09:15.25 | ieatlint | i take that back, incest is illegal in washington |
| 09:15.37 | ieatlint | just looked it up :P |
| 09:16.01 | ieatlint | cehteh: actually that could be considered illegal |
| 09:16.11 | ieatlint | i'm sure they could call it fraud or similar |
| 09:16.14 | chem|st | ieatlint: but you are not allowed to be naked in rooms with windows... |
| 09:16.27 | ieatlint | chem|st: this is news to me |
| 09:16.30 | Termana | ieatlint, still it doesn't really matter whether it's illegal or not to HAVE incest, it doesn't make works describing incest illegal |
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| 09:16.38 | cehteh | ieatlint: fraus is when you use the things and dont pay |
| 09:16.43 | Termana | HAVE/take part |
| 09:16.50 | cehteh | they offer you a return policy |
| 09:16.53 | Termana | Choose your poison |
| 09:16.57 | ieatlint | Termana: very true... but the case to remove it is lessened if it's a legal act to begin with |
| 09:16.58 | chem|st | ieatlint: that is actualy terms of service of amazon, have a look and send it back if you don't like it |
| 09:17.01 | cehteh | you just excercise your rights |
| 09:17.25 | ieatlint | in california at least, the law says companies are only bound to the return policy in good faith |
| 09:17.31 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: What's your last name? |
| 09:17.37 | ieatlint | a person seeking to abuse it is not necessarily protected |
| 09:17.40 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: (attributing credit on the bug trail) |
| 09:17.53 | cehteh | not even "dont like it" ... the reasons for returning dont need to be specified iirc |
| 09:18.01 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: or can I add you the the CC list ? |
| 09:18.12 | cehteh | while i would suggest "wikileaks" is a proper reason |
| 09:18.12 | RobbieThe1st | Meh. I'll never buy a Kindle; it's just too "fragile", what with Amazon having control over it's contents. |
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| 09:19.06 | Termana | I don't have time to read, so I don't care about the Kindle :p |
| 09:19.55 | sivang | hi ArGGu^^ , how is the irc client going? :) |
| 09:20.02 | RST38h | idly muses that by playing s&m nanny, Amazon actually encourages people to stea^H^Hdownload ebooks instead |
| 09:20.10 | chem|st | cehteh: ot: the insurance company now wants my wheatbeer-coked mobile sent in to some repair shop... isnt it less expensive to just pay instead of having 3 people spent hours on it and two 32eur shipments? |
| 09:21.11 | *** part/#maemo Kiore (~ircap@D57D445A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 09:21.19 | Termana | chem|st, why are you caring about how much it costs - if the insurance company wants to spend more money then they are idiots :p |
| 09:21.31 | ArGGu^^ | sivang no progress at moment, but my christmas holiday started today so finaly time to start coding :) |
| 09:21.41 | chem|st | Termana: I want to keep the damaged device... |
| 09:21.51 | Termana | Oh I see |
| 09:21.58 | chem|st | well there is an option I get it back... |
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| 09:22.57 | ieatlint | often they want the dead device to ensure that you aren't abusing your insurance policy (or, to attempt to verify the damage done is covered by the policy) |
| 09:23.26 | ArGGu^^ | sivang I'm planning to finish it in this holiday :) |
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| 09:25.45 | ArGGu^^ | My holiday lasts about 3 ½ weeks so I think I can get i done in that time :) |
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| 09:26.07 | ArGGu^^ | *it done |
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| 09:26.09 | chem|st | well it is not my insurance and it is working, apart of two buttons... "it is drought in wheatbeer" should be enough to have an argument about "you return my repaired wheatbeer device... warranty void and it gets out of service in say one month, may I ask for a replacement then?" |
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| 09:27.57 | chem|st | Termana: ++ it is a hell of a work to get all my modified files from it and backuped... |
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| 09:30.00 | chem|st | is it enough to backup and just device lock? |
| 09:30.41 | cehteh | encryption frw |
| 09:31.37 | chem|st | cehteh: well I would clean out my userdata, I was more thinking of they cannot do anything withit without a reflash |
| 09:31.59 | chem|st | and me not doing a reflash in the first place |
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| 09:32.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | sivang: my full name is Joerg Reisenweber, and you arte free to add me to CC |
| 09:32.24 | cehteh | reminds me that i want to try encryption too, just no time yet |
| 09:34.01 | chem|st | cehteh: as noone pointed me to a rock solid stable kernel yet and I am to lazy to compile stock with it... I had time I spent for s/t else |
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| 09:34.35 | cehteh | power46 works for me .. after i reflashed the device after some serious breakacke some weeks ago |
| 09:35.02 | cehteh | with works for me i mean its really good, dont even need to reboot every some days |
| 09:35.26 | cehteh | uptime 11d ... |
| 09:36.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: I suggest nuking NOLO |
| 09:36.16 | cehteh | ok not that much, but before i rebooted the device every few days to get rid of some fuckup |
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| 09:37.28 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: how does that improve that stability of the device? .. agreed that nolo is bad but well .. once you get over it it doesnt matter anymore |
| 09:38.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | it was a suggestion targeted at the insurance thing |
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| 09:39.53 | cehteh | ah :) |
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| 09:50.05 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: what's the email id on meego's bugzilla? |
| 09:50.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | I got no account on meego, the gurus told me I don't need any |
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| 09:54.20 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: who where those gurus? I know no guru but myself :-p |
| 09:54.23 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: and you :) |
| 09:54.32 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: is that recoverable? |
| 09:54.40 | Termana | DocScrutinizer51, funnily, if you have insurance and you just wanted a new phone or new N900 you could probably just nuke the NOLO bootloader and they would replace it. They wouldn't have a clue that you can restore it, unless they send it to Nokia repair (assuming most repair centres know you can restore it) |
| 09:54.54 | Termana | Not that advocate insurance fraud |
| 09:54.58 | Termana | that I* |
| 09:55.07 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: just privmsg me an email address then |
| 09:55.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: easily, if you're an expert |
| 09:55.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~coldflash |
| 09:55.28 | infobot | coldflash is probably http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing |
| 09:55.42 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: didn't have to yet |
| 09:55.57 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: ah ok the coldflash procedure |
| 09:57.02 | Termana | DocScrutinizer51, you mean, easily as long as your not an idiot and can follow a few instructions |
| 09:57.07 | Termana | you're* |
| 09:57.07 | sivang | Termana: exactly |
| 09:57.09 | sivang | ;) |
| 09:57.17 | sivang | Why is it cold a called flash? |
| 09:58.04 | chem|st | right... like the guy the other day draining his battery with trying to flash till emergency charging mode... |
| 09:58.14 | Termana | sivang, it follows the same principle of cold and warm reboots |
| 09:58.26 | Termana | (on a PC) |
| 09:58.45 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis_ (~Vanadis@84-75-177-123.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:58.54 | chem|st | sivang: flash with on device and off device |
| 09:59.14 | Termana | eg. a warm reboot is where you reboot it and leave it on, a cold reboot is where you do a complete shutdown and then reboot |
| 09:59.31 | sivang | ah, I see, so falshing while there's nothing running on the device and flasher treats it is a plain USB storage? |
| 09:59.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | sivang: it's called cold as the system isn't started |
| 10:00.12 | Termana | everyone else has used better terms of describing it than I did. I should go hang my head on the wall of shame |
| 10:00.13 | Termana | :P |
| 10:00.57 | chem|st | Termana: growing to knowledge how to explain you will young padawan |
| 10:01.11 | delphi | lol |
| 10:01.32 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 10:02.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's basically from EE/hw domain, where a cold system is one that just powered up |
| 10:02.03 | *** join/#maemo perlite (~perlite@111-240-205-247.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 10:02.18 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 10:02.27 | chem|st | and I jsut said "it was him..." http://media.photobucket.com/image/yoda%20jail/K-909/yoda.jpg |
| 10:02.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | while hot means 'while up and running' |
| 10:02.57 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: ah, so hardware is init'd but just it |
| 10:03.01 | sivang | ? |
| 10:03.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | sivang: yep |
| 10:03.20 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-ubvtfesnyojyzupb) |
| 10:03.21 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@87.213.105.245) |
| 10:03.24 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~fuchs@port-217-146-132-69.static.qsc.de) |
| 10:03.29 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 10:03.35 | RST38h | Is "Marble" worth keeping on the device? |
| 10:03.41 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: in these terms both are cold flashes |
| 10:03.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, somewhat |
| 10:03.59 | RST38h | I am trying to use it, but it constantly keeps CPU at 100% and is completely unresponsive. Anyone has different experience? |
| 10:04.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | but you can argue NOLO is a system |
| 10:04.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | sw system |
| 10:04.27 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: kind of yes |
| 10:04.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, those terms are fuzzy anyway |
| 10:05.26 | chem|st | I'd like to get nolo to export all to usb instead of those two partitions only |
| 10:05.31 | *** join/#maemo jasuarez (~jasuarez@119.Red-83-56-136.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:05.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | hot-xxx means 'do xxx while system running' |
| 10:05.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | compare hotswap |
| 10:06.05 | *** join/#maemo toggles (~irssi_tog@b05s35le.corenetworks.net) |
| 10:06.09 | chem|st | hotswap means while port is powered |
| 10:06.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | or 'while system powered' |
| 10:06.35 | pupnik | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:IPhone_sales_per_quarter_simple.svg |
| 10:06.47 | chem|st | pupnik: who cares |
| 10:07.10 | pupnik | i keep thinking of the lady bear in the youtube |
| 10:07.26 | jasuarez | anyone knows if it is possible to grant write permissions in maemo bugzilla for a project to other guy? |
| 10:07.51 | pupnik | is there a ping of death where i can set them on fire? |
| 10:08.02 | pupnik | better yet, explode while they're talking? |
| 10:08.16 | chem|st | and 2010-Q4 is that high because you now can buy it without SIM |
| 10:08.20 | X-Fade | dneary: css checked out. |
| 10:08.42 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@2001:738:2001:407f:225:d3ff:fe2e:ecb6) |
| 10:08.46 | RST38h | pupnik: Why limit yourself to iphone users? |
| 10:09.04 | dneary | X-Fade, Thanks! I was just about to ask |
| 10:09.15 | Venemo | hi |
| 10:09.22 | Venemo | MohammadAG: good morning |
| 10:09.24 | X-Fade | dneary: I watch the commits list ;) |
| 10:09.29 | dneary | Now to see how long before someone complains... See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10093 for details |
| 10:09.30 | povbot` | Bug 10093: Horizontal lines after level 1-2 headings in wiki.maemo.org |
| 10:11.10 | dneary | X-Fade, It already messes some things up on the home page |
| 10:11.29 | dneary | (the "Register" button is in a h element) |
| 10:11.57 | X-Fade | dneary: Better override it in the wiki css then? |
| 10:12.22 | dneary | X-Fade, As per my comment, I don't want to have something that is different just for the wiki |
| 10:12.39 | dneary | It's not a special case, I think. |
| 10:12.39 | X-Fade | dneary: Well then you need to check every single case :) |
| 10:13.07 | dneary | On content pages it looks great |
| 10:13.52 | dneary | The only places where it might not be OK are in headers, portal pages like downloads & news (where there are other decorative elements too which are duplication) and in sidebar menus (where it looks fine, I think) |
| 10:14.21 | *** join/#maemo inkbottle (~inkbottle@AAubervilliers-751-1-1-242.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:14.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | dneary: could you fix that annoying centered layout when showing a single tmo post please |
| 10:14.46 | dneary | DocScrutinizer51, For tmo, please talk to Reggie, nothing to do with me |
| 10:14.47 | *** join/#maemo ponyofdeath (~vladi@user-0c9hb8u.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 10:14.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | aah ok |
| 10:14.57 | dneary | Create a bug & point him at it :) |
| 10:16.05 | dneary | X-Fade, OK, I'm going to do a quick fix to get 90% of the issues |
| 10:16.13 | dneary | I'm going to drop underlining from h3s |
| 10:16.36 | X-Fade | dneary: ok. |
| 10:17.46 | dneary | Done |
| 10:18.04 | X-Fade | updated |
| 10:18.16 | inkbottle | I want to make a little modification on a package; but then how do i compile and install it? |
| 10:19.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | dneary: *sigh* opening a ticket... |
| 10:19.51 | dneary | DocScrutinizer51, Reggie isn't in the habit of using Bugzilla - I'm using you to get to him ;) |
| 10:20.02 | dneary | X-Fade, Thanks |
| 10:20.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | dneary: probably too much effort for tmo |
| 10:20.29 | Venemo | inkbottle: could you elaborate? |
| 10:21.46 | dneary | :) |
| 10:22.08 | *** join/#maemo delphi (~delphi@109-93-84-109.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 10:22.33 | inkbottle | Venemo: I'm using agenda in testing, and there is something not working. So I've read the sources, and I'd like to make a modification |
| 10:22.54 | Venemo | inkbottle: and what's the problem? |
| 10:23.05 | Venemo | inkbottle: do you have an SDK? |
| 10:23.55 | Venemo | inkbottle: maybe it would also be a good idea to contact the author of the package about the bug and send him a patch |
| 10:23.58 | inkbottle | Venemo: that's the problem; i don't know what to do next. |
| 10:24.21 | inkbottle | it would probably be the best idea |
| 10:24.41 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 10:25.02 | inkbottle | but i would have liked to try it right now; but if it's too complicated, i'll rather contact the author :-) |
| 10:25.35 | *** join/#maemo ||jess| (~quassel@9.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net) |
| 10:25.45 | inkbottle | Venemo: SDK must be on a different computer, is that right? |
| 10:26.31 | *** join/#maemo ponyofdeath (~vladi@user-0c9hb8u.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 10:27.27 | pupnik | http://www.osnews.com/story/24136/_FBI_Added_Secret_Backdoors_to_OpenBSD_IPSEC_ [ the FBI paid several open source developers to implement hidden backdoors in OpenBSD's IPSEC stack ] |
| 10:28.45 | dneary | pupnik, Sounds like a great story |
| 10:28.53 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:31.12 | sivang | pupnik: people here already decided to move to 2fish and serpentine |
| 10:31.36 | sivang | pupnik: to achive truecrypt, but hack, if you have anything to hide you'd better not use the internet right? |
| 10:32.06 | *** join/#maemo ponyofdeath (~vladi@user-0c9hb8u.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 10:32.11 | pupnik | well it's good to get code reviewed |
| 10:32.34 | sivang | they claim nobody knows what's in there |
| 10:32.39 | sivang | even though the code is open |
| 10:33.27 | pupnik | this is a reason for more open source and code review, not less |
| 10:35.18 | alterego | Heh |
| 10:36.31 | *** join/#maemo Zuccace (zucca@cs181186108.pp.htv.fi) |
| 10:37.30 | toggles | lol |
| 10:38.55 | sivang | open source cannot defent against interests :) |
| 10:40.03 | Venemo | inkbottle: google for "Nokia Qt SDK" |
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| 10:40.53 | RST38h | pupnik: What? OpenBSD devs did end up being assholes at the end? |
| 10:42.36 | *** join/#maemo madduck (~madduck@debian/developer/madduck) |
| 10:43.58 | pupnik | lol |
| 10:44.36 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
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| 10:51.38 | *** join/#maemo TrackerDPP (~TrackerDP@static-213-136-113-93.afnet.net) |
| 10:51.42 | TrackerDPP | hello all |
| 10:53.56 | *** join/#maemo manzanos (89de6630@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.222.102.48) |
| 10:54.37 | manzanos | hi all |
| 10:55.03 | TrackerDPP | hi manzanos ! |
| 10:55.25 | manzanos | does anyone know where I can find a good tutorial about host mode.. I tried to install on the phone with apt-get but I didn-t succeed |
| 10:55.57 | manzanos | hi TrackerDPP |
| 10:56.03 | manzanos | I tried apt-get install hostmode-gui |
| 10:56.25 | TrackerDPP | are check the server list on you hote ? |
| 10:57.17 | manzanos | uhm what do you mean? if my connection works? |
| 10:58.53 | TrackerDPP | what is your hote type ? |
| 10:59.13 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@p54B2B8EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:59.13 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 10:59.21 | manzanos | n900 |
| 10:59.47 | TrackerDPP | ok |
| 11:01.51 | TrackerDPP | when you type "apt-get install [software]" |
| 11:02.12 | TrackerDPP | what is the problem |
| 11:02.14 | TrackerDPP | ? |
| 11:02.35 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@149.80-203-123.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:03.08 | *** join/#maemo delphi (~delphi@109-93-84-109.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 11:03.54 | manzanos | it depends |
| 11:04.02 | manzanos | sometimes it says that coudn t find the package |
| 11:04.05 | TrackerDPP | it work ? |
| 11:04.21 | manzanos | sometimes says that I have the software at updated at the latest version |
| 11:04.42 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: (openBSD) if you're referring to what I think you do, then probably more like idiots rather than assholes |
| 11:04.52 | manzanos | maybe there is some problem in the sources.list I don t know.. |
| 11:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | manzanos: use appmanager to install |
| 11:06.12 | DocScrutinizer | enable maemo-devel catalog |
| 11:06.18 | TrackerDPP | i have one quiz DocScrutinizer ! |
| 11:06.45 | manzanos | DocScrutinizer: uhm the usb host mode package is in that repository? |
| 11:06.50 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 11:07.02 | manzanos | DocScrutinizer: is not possible to modify the source.list file? |
| 11:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | discouraged way |
| 11:07.45 | TrackerDPP | DocScrutinizer : if i paid a N900 with maemo backtrack is incorporate ? |
| 11:07.52 | manzanos | DocScrutinizer: can I ask you why? |
| 11:08.27 | DocScrutinizer | manzanos: HAM does something on top of source.list I heard |
| 11:09.01 | DocScrutinizer | TrackerDPP: sorry, can't parse |
| 11:09.31 | *** join/#maemo juhjokel (~juhjokel@nat/nokia/x-rcvlrislsdqfzqnf) |
| 11:09.33 | TrackerDPP | if i get a new Nokia N900 backtrack work it default ! |
| 11:09.41 | manzanos | DocScrutinizer: HAM? |
| 11:09.50 | DocScrutinizer | Holdon App Manager |
| 11:09.58 | DocScrutinizer | Hildon* |
| 11:10.03 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: haha "Holdon" |
| 11:10.11 | sivang | Hold-on app manager :) |
| 11:10.15 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 11:10.25 | sivang | ROTFLS |
| 11:10.43 | DocScrutinizer | I claim (C) on that |
| 11:10.47 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 11:11.05 | sivang | "I'm holding on, now what?" |
| 11:11.11 | sivang | keep holding on. |
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| 11:11.14 | sivang | :-D |
| 11:12.06 | DocScrutinizer | frozen fingers are god for some laugh sometimes |
| 11:12.09 | DocScrutinizer | good* |
| 11:12.16 | sivang | indeed |
| 11:12.31 | DocScrutinizer | TrackerDPP: sorry I don't get it |
| 11:12.56 | TrackerDPP | is that if I buy a Nokia N900 I backtrack on by default |
| 11:13.08 | TrackerDPP | if that if I buy a Nokia N900 I backtrack on by default |
| 11:13.43 | DocScrutinizer | WTF is "backtrack" meaning? |
| 11:13.57 | TrackerDPP | NeoPwn |
| 11:14.03 | TrackerDPP | security framwork |
| 11:14.10 | TrackerDPP | for pentester Backtrack |
| 11:14.21 | DocScrutinizer | ummpf |
| 11:14.31 | DocScrutinizer | No, N900 comes with maemo |
| 11:14.47 | TrackerDPP | i know |
| 11:14.57 | TrackerDPP | ok |
| 11:15.19 | sivang | notes HAM is not so much waiting these days, besides maybe when updating sources, but it was a good laugh :) |
| 11:15.37 | sivang | installation is quite fast, in my taste with pr1.2 |
| 11:16.32 | DocScrutinizer | tries typing with nose, probably easier than using frozen fingers |
| 11:18.06 | pupnik_ | Great news! http://www.flickr.com/photos/av500/5262764295/ |
| 11:18.57 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: heh |
| 11:25.32 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.59.122.14) |
| 11:25.56 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: OE aka "linux for stiching machines" \o/ |
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| 11:26.53 | plr_ | hey does someone know how to restart some engine that keeps track of call log and conversations? |
| 11:27.13 | plr_ | it has started crashing on me and it's quite annoying to reboot all the time |
| 11:27.23 | DocScrutinizer | always frowned on OM basing on OE and its braindamaged concept of kicking out everything including any sane user account, just to re-include it later |
| 11:27.27 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: i call it: browser, mplayer, and any game i care to compile |
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| 11:28.04 | pupnik | it will sit next to my laptop as a "2nd laptop" |
| 11:28.17 | DocScrutinizer | not to mention the mindboggling receipes |
| 11:28.20 | pupnik | put irssi on it... or play whatever vids i want to watch, without cluttering my screen |
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| 11:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: I'm questioning the basic concept of OE |
| 11:32.27 | DocScrutinizer | It just feels silly to first strip down a standard distro to the absolute bare minimum, even remove user account management et al, just to add everything in later, when you realize your device isn't exactly "embedded" (like a coffeemachine) but actually a mini desktop |
| 11:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I call OE "linux for stitching machines" |
| 11:34.45 | DocScrutinizer | OM/SHR for example (based on OE) still has no decent user "user" yet, and is running *everything* under root account |
| 11:34.55 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 11:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | in maemo we're frowning at hardcoded paths "~user" in some parts of the system - for OE/OM things are *much* worse |
| 11:36.42 | lardman | but you can rebuild the system, is there some fundamental reason that everything has to run as root? |
| 11:36.53 | lardman | I can't really remember what used to happen on the Zaurus |
| 11:36.58 | *** join/#maemo ponyofdeath (~vladi@user-0c9hb8u.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 11:37.09 | DocScrutinizer | quite a number of apps have no clue whatsoever about dealing with proper permissions at all |
| 11:37.18 | DocScrutinizer | under OE/OM |
| 11:38.39 | lardman | well that's a problem with the apps surely? |
| 11:38.53 | DocScrutinizer | it's resembling "good old" windoze practice where lots of apps fail epically when not run under admin account |
| 11:40.08 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: sure, but as well is an inherent issue of the whole system config, as app devels aren't even enabled to test their apps in a sane restricted account |
| 11:40.22 | lardman | fair enough |
| 11:40.27 | DocScrutinizer | as there is none |
| 11:41.25 | DocScrutinizer | rationale always been "we'll deal with that later - first get the core system up and running". Now things reached a state where nobody even dares to touch it |
| 11:42.17 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:43.21 | DocScrutinizer | and I have a nightmare vision of dozens of app devels doing a chmod u+s, once anybody tries to target the issue now |
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| 11:46.04 | DocScrutinizer | example: mokomaze (a nice game) is using vibrator for tactile feedback. There's no viable concept how this userland app should access the sysfs node controlling the vibrator |
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| 11:47.04 | DocScrutinizer | nobody ever bothered as mokomaze is running with root perms |
| 11:47.07 | sleepee | backtrack/neopwn for the n900 is out? i thought it was in perpetual state of development.. |
| 11:48.05 | sleepee | if it is, that would be aowwwwsome. |
| 11:50.10 | DocScrutinizer | sleepee: I thought it's available for N900 since... dunnoages |
| 11:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | sleepee: for the development part - isn't that the usual state for all linuxoid OS? |
| 11:51.48 | sleepee | good point |
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| 11:52.09 | sleepee | actually, i hadn't checked to see if it was out in a long time.. |
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| 11:52.31 | chem|st | sleepee: I heard hurd is comin' next year... |
| 11:52.49 | DocScrutinizer | well, I'm pretty sure I got an installation img somewhere on my disk, collecting dust |
| 11:53.07 | chem|st | I love this running... |
| 11:53.47 | sleepee | every time i go to the site, it would say coming soon... |
| 11:53.47 | DocScrutinizer | even with some blob that's supposed to enable packet injection on WLAN |
| 11:54.27 | sleepee | i thought n90o didn't support htat |
| 11:54.29 | sleepee | that* |
| 11:54.33 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 11:55.19 | DocScrutinizer | amazing how sometimes topic pop up on a certain point in time - has there been a tmo thread or blogpost mentioning neopwn today? |
| 11:55.30 | sleepee | hmm... apparently the beta is out |
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| 12:00.23 | DocScrutinizer | btw I love the name neopwn, as it's based on Neo Freerunner :-D |
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| 12:16.09 | RST38h | Well. Moo. |
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| 12:41.41 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: sorry, was writing a review. I don't disagree with any of your points re: OE. I'm saying the 'heavy lifting' for getting linux to boot is done today. :D |
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| 12:42.24 | huee | any chance of getting injection support on n810? |
| 12:42.24 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: :-D |
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| 12:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: (I'm busy with digesting http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain) |
| 12:43.11 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: moo |
| 12:44.02 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: is there any good news regarding PA's cpu use? |
| 12:44.03 | DocScrutinizer | huee: use USB hostmode and a proper USB WiFi stick :-D |
| 12:44.16 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 12:44.21 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: why should? |
| 12:44.22 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I need your help with uBoot |
| 12:44.27 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: shoot |
| 12:44.33 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, http://i51.tinypic.com/nez67p.jpg |
| 12:44.39 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: because it kills performance on Maemo 5 as I documented 1 year ago |
| 12:45.17 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, that's my partition table for the eMMC, with MeeGo on /dev/sdb5 |
| 12:45.30 | DocScrutinizer | thought as much :-) |
| 12:45.39 | pupnik | Might as well run android if I want useless bloat sapping 15% of my cpu. |
| 12:45.40 | MohammadAG | (also made another fat32 partition (64MBs) /dev/sd6 to store the kernel on) |
| 12:46.05 | MohammadAG | do you know how to load the uImage from the eMMC? |
| 12:46.09 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: we're all aware of the problem. I'm asking what makes you think there's any movement on the solution side |
| 12:46.56 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: from uBoot? ummm |
| 12:48.31 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I bet it's something along the line "have proper mtdparts definitions; then do a root=mtd5 kernel=mtd6" or sth |
| 12:48.35 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: sorry, i misunderstood "why should?" |
| 12:48.51 | DocScrutinizer | np |
| 12:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you checked the uBoot docs? |
| 12:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: NB I know next to nothing about uBoot specifics |
| 12:50.56 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, hmm |
| 12:50.56 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: please post that uboot config file that's supposed to live on uSD |
| 12:51.06 | MohammadAG | there isn't one |
| 12:51.06 | DocScrutinizer | or a link to it |
| 12:51.12 | MohammadAG | (at least for me) |
| 12:51.21 | MohammadAG | you can have one, but it's optional |
| 12:52.13 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: btw I'm not sure uBoot knows about extended partitions |
| 12:53.45 | DocScrutinizer | if this were uBoot as I know it from OM devices, I'd suggest to place the kernel on /dev/sdb1 as a file |
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| 12:54.28 | DocScrutinizer | that's how OM systems on uSD are frequently configured |
| 12:55.34 | DocScrutinizer | you have a (possibly) small fat32 as first partition, to hold the zimage, and a ext[23] for / |
| 12:55.57 | libben | how can i take screenshot from terminal? n900 dont want to press key combos. want to use sleep 15; blabla blabla |
| 12:56.32 | DocScrutinizer | iirc uBoot *could* fetch kernel from ext-fs as well, but there's been a problem when mkfs.ext gone from inodesize=128 to 256 as default |
| 12:56.52 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, second problem is, meego's sources are too retarded and need rpm to build a kernel |
| 12:56.56 | gggs | libben: Ctrl+Shift+P |
| 12:57.02 | libben | no |
| 12:57.05 | libben | want to use command |
| 12:57.09 | libben | cant use buttons |
| 12:57.32 | MohammadAG | there isn't a command to take a screenshot |
| 12:57.32 | libben | i need terminal command that i can delay with sleep |
| 12:57.44 | MohammadAG | make an app |
| 12:57.52 | DocScrutinizer | libben: check how load-applet is doing it, also I guess the ctrl-shift-P is sending a dbus signal as well |
| 12:57.52 | libben | well, i could use a script, but that would require python installed |
| 12:58.02 | DocScrutinizer | check using dbus-monitor |
| 12:58.10 | libben | and i dont want to install full install av python |
| 12:58.14 | libben | im no developer |
| 12:59.06 | DocScrutinizer | libben: load applet has a delay, when triggering screenshot by clicking the still-cam button in system menu |
| 13:00.04 | ieatlint | alternatively, it *should* be possible to do a framebuffer dump and convert the result |
| 13:00.06 | DocScrutinizer | libben: dunno if that's just enough for you to avoid sleep 15 all together |
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| 13:00.23 | libben | so can i use load applet and start a delay and then start another program ? |
| 13:00.32 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:01.13 | libben | ill grab that one, thxs |
| 13:01.19 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 13:03.03 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_ (c16a270a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.106.39.10) |
| 13:03.19 | Khertan_ | Hello everyone ! |
| 13:03.43 | DocScrutinizer | hi Khertan_ |
| 13:05.10 | Khertan_ | Someone know if there is a limit with the size of the swap usable by n900 ? |
| 13:05.21 | RST38h | no |
| 13:05.33 | RST38h | although for practical reasons, 512MB should be enough |
| 13:05.40 | Khertan_ | i ve try to add a 2Gb swap but a cat /proc/meminfo seems to show only 1G |
| 13:05.55 | RST38h | Oh, you mean really large swap? |
| 13:06.05 | Khertan_ | RST38h: here it s for a specfics use case |
| 13:06.14 | RST38h | This is ultimately limited by the address space size |
| 13:06.34 | Khertan_ | and will be mount temporary |
| 13:06.34 | RST38h | a moment |
| 13:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | Khertan_: you can have multiple swap volumes |
| 13:07.05 | DocScrutinizer | they should add up |
| 13:07.09 | RST38h | Khertan: http://kerneltrap.org/node/2450 |
| 13:07.31 | Khertan_ | DocScrutinizer: yep this is what i try to do, keeping the default internal one and add a 2Gb partition on the sd |
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| 13:08.00 | DocScrutinizer | maybe add 2 of 1GB each? |
| 13:08.28 | RST38h | Doc: He is probably hitting the address size limit |
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| 13:08.36 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:08.42 | RST38h | Meanwhile: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/15/nokia_e7_slip/ |
| 13:09.35 | Khertan_ | I think i'm hitting the address size limit |
| 13:09.38 | Khertan_ | :( |
| 13:10.34 | Khertan_ | so i ll transform my code to do distributed calculation :) ... or less geek cache some information in files ... |
| 13:10.49 | Khertan_ | thx for help :) |
| 13:11.41 | RST38h | Why do you even need to run such a heavy computational code on a tablet? |
| 13:11.44 | Khertan_ | This is funny to see how we can forgot that n900 is after all a phone, and how sometime reality strike use |
| 13:11.55 | Khertan_ | RST38h: because i'm coding it in the train :) |
| 13:11.55 | RST38h | Why not use 64bit Linux instead? |
| 13:11.59 | RST38h | Ah |
| 13:12.17 | Khertan_ | at home i code it on my debian 64bits |
| 13:12.42 | Khertan_ | with 16Gb i never got memory problems :) |
| 13:13.27 | RST38h | Should someone post a "WE WANT 64BIT ARM BASED PHONE FROM NOKIA" on tmo? =) |
| 13:14.11 | Khertan_ | RST38h: will be worst if we didn't got larger physical memory size :) |
| 13:14.22 | DocScrutinizer | OL |
| 13:14.25 | Khertan_ | :) |
| 13:14.27 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 13:14.42 | Khertan_ | 0L is good remarks too :) |
| 13:14.53 | MohammadAG | 64bit ARM o_O |
| 13:14.57 | gggs | Khertan_: can you ssh into your 64-bit at home? |
| 13:15.17 | Khertan_ | gggs: in the subway or in the train it s not really usable :) |
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| 13:16.56 | Khertan_ | connection isn't stable enought |
| 13:17.14 | Khertan_ | i ll wait to come back to home, and code something else :) |
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| 13:30.42 | ArGGu^^ | sivang The new gui is not easy to make I have to make custom gestures for it :/ |
| 13:31.26 | ArGGu^^ | And not sure will I succeed making them work :/ |
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| 13:32.45 | ArGGu^^ | the swipe gesture in Qt need 3 touch points :/ |
| 13:32.51 | ArGGu^^ | *needs |
| 13:33.19 | libben | hmm |
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| 13:34.21 | libben | whats the webcamera icon for in Load Applet? |
| 13:35.28 | ArGGu^^ | libben Load Applet in what? |
| 13:35.36 | libben | n900 |
| 13:35.46 | ArGGu^^ | but in what program? |
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| 13:36.01 | libben | the program is load applet |
| 13:36.13 | libben | The load applet provides a status bar plugin that shows the CPU load and memory usage. It has a small menu that allows for easy screen-shot taking. |
| 13:36.23 | libben | but i dont get what the webcam icon is for |
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| 13:36.36 | ArGGu^^ | aa ok I don't have that installed on my n900 |
| 13:39.19 | ArGGu^^ | libben maybe it is for screencasts |
| 13:40.08 | libben | yup |
| 13:40.14 | libben | just cheked mediaplayer |
| 13:40.17 | libben | seems like it |
| 13:40.34 | libben | but mediaplayer doesnt play it uå |
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| 13:43.24 | libben | do you know how to change wallpaper btw? ive downloaded 4 wallpapers and a rc file if i dont remember wrong. but nothing appears in theme selection |
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| 13:44.26 | libben | aah, change background in the edit of desktop |
| 13:44.27 | libben | lol |
| 13:44.33 | libben | looked at wrong place =) |
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| 13:53.31 | gggs | how difficult do you think it'd be to modify an N900 to encrypt calls and re-encode in CELT? |
| 13:53.59 | gggs | or Speex |
| 13:54.21 | SpeedEvil | gggs: Utterly impossible in some cases |
| 13:54.51 | gggs | hardware, or closed-src softw? |
| 13:54.59 | SpeedEvil | You cannot encrypt 'normal' voice calls simply, as the presence of bit errors, and the codecs used means that you end up with essentially crap. |
| 13:55.20 | SpeedEvil | SIP, or any other call-over-data - sure |
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| 13:55.44 | SpeedEvil | Essentially crap = 0% of the transmitted data being decodable in ideal conditions. |
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| 13:56.26 | BCMM | bad enough that good enough CRCs wouldn't leave enough bandwidth? |
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| 13:57.12 | derf | BCMM: He's saying that you _want_ to allow bit errors. |
| 13:57.22 | BCMM | ? |
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| 13:57.29 | derf | Because a bit error is not fatal to an audio codec. |
| 13:57.40 | derf | But it is fatal if you've encrypted the data first. |
| 13:58.34 | gggs | hmm, I guess you'd be encoding in speex -> encrypting in AES/* -> encoding & encrypting in GSM -> transmitting |
| 13:59.51 | SpeedEvil | gggs: yes - that can't work |
| 14:00.02 | SpeedEvil | gggs: Basically, the normal voice channel looks like: |
| 14:00.49 | SpeedEvil | mic -> A/D -> GSM codec -> radio -> bit errors -> radio -> GSM codec -> ISDN line to NOC -> PSTN |
| 14:00.57 | SpeedEvil | For a call from a mobile to a landline |
| 14:01.07 | SpeedEvil | you have no control over the codecs chosen. |
| 14:01.18 | SpeedEvil | And they are designed to throw away non-voice-like noises |
| 14:01.57 | SpeedEvil | This makes encryption problematic |
| 14:02.05 | SpeedEvil | If you do it over data, it's not a problem |
| 14:02.30 | ieatlint | that probably also explains why hold music sounds like ass on mobiles |
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| 14:02.36 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:03.10 | SpeedEvil | It's designed to reproduce what a human vocal system can do - quite specifically - and has models of that in the codec |
| 14:03.19 | SpeedEvil | Anything else tends to come out very poorly |
| 14:03.19 | gggs | yea I see the problem, it'd need to be changed below the app layer |
| 14:04.13 | SpeedEvil | gggs: No, you'd need to convince the whole signal path to go to some encryption friendly mode. Including the bit outside your phone, including the far-end GSM tower and phone |
| 14:04.40 | BCMM | it's fun to play various notes down a phone - with a pure tone, the ones that aren't important for voice just get completely lost |
| 14:04.45 | SpeedEvil | CSD - circuit switched data - sort of is ideal for this - but it tends to be not enabled on most peoples phone. |
| 14:04.50 | SpeedEvil | And expensive or impossible to enable. |
| 14:05.30 | SpeedEvil | Which leaves you with encryption over internet - which means you can't use GPRS unless you put up with ~2s delay at times. |
| 14:05.36 | SpeedEvil | It's a pain. |
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| 14:06.02 | ieatlint | heh, even umts has >100ms delays, which is very noticeable |
| 14:06.24 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:06.43 | SpeedEvil | But not quite as noticable as the typical delay I get of over 1000ms on gprs |
| 14:07.07 | BCMM | 1 second is enough that people start interrupting each other by accident, and eventually get angry |
| 14:07.18 | BCMM | seen it on skype, most amusing |
| 14:07.18 | ieatlint | well, to argue a useless point, i have to say i've seen 500-700ms round-trip on gprs consistently |
| 14:07.21 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.59.122.14) |
| 14:08.17 | ieatlint | 150-300ms round trip seems normal (in my experience) for umts... but 75-150ms delays are high, and 250-350ms delays are annoying |
| 14:08.32 | ieatlint | but comparable to the old satellite telephone links across continents |
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| 14:09.59 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 14:10.18 | SpeedEvil | In practice, you can deal with 2s RTT if you treat it as PTT |
| 14:10.22 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 14:11.15 | gggs | BCMM: I know what you mean with Skype, video conferencing is a cute trick to impress old people, but largely a waste of time practically |
| 14:11.38 | ieatlint | well, excepting any sort of PTT scenario, you can likely discount any hope of data-based phone calls on EDGE due to the full duplex necessity |
| 14:11.48 | gggs | vid delay of 2.5sec, audio delay of ~1sec, it's worse than text |
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| 14:11.52 | ieatlint | UMTS... possible, but somehow strikes me as unreliable and prone to bad delays |
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| 14:12.20 | BCMM | gggs: heh, yep, old people really, really, love video-conferencing... |
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| 14:14.36 | sivang | ArGGu^^: I see :/ |
| 14:14.49 | sivang | ArGGu^^: I'm sure you can make it eventually. |
| 14:15.19 | sivang | BCMM: corp people as well |
| 14:15.28 | sivang | ArGGu^^: so you're rewriting in QML? |
| 14:16.51 | gggs | so in other words, we're stuck with GSM's insecurities, and the only practical way for secure voice comms is VoIP |
| 14:17.12 | sivang | gggs: if it uses AES then no :-p |
| 14:17.16 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, ping |
| 14:17.44 | pexi | worse than video conferences are recorded video lectures.. and professors love to put that tape rolling year after year :) |
| 14:18.05 | sivang | pexi: some uni's these re better than lectures themselves |
| 14:18.11 | sivang | pexi: saddening as may be |
| 14:18.27 | pexi | true |
| 14:19.08 | sivang | pexi: technion.ac.il no exception :) |
| 14:19.12 | *** join/#maemo edisson (~edisson@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:19.24 | SpeedEvil | gggs: Almost. |
| 14:19.46 | sivang | pexi: in my example |
| 14:19.46 | SpeedEvil | gggs: There was a paper I saw - that I have lost a link to and can't find that did data over GSM voice |
| 14:20.07 | pexi | i hated being on lectures where they were recording - when some questions arised, no one dared to ask |
| 14:20.22 | SpeedEvil | gggs: It did it by hooking a vocal tract synth up to a data generator, and on the other end basically a speech recogniser |
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| 14:20.35 | SpeedEvil | gggs: 1200 bits/s - but a hell of a lot of hastle. |
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| 14:21.24 | peetah | hi guys |
| 14:22.24 | peetah | I know this channel is more about maemo than N900 hardware, so ignore me if I'm out of line |
| 14:22.47 | peetah | Did any of you know about issues with the N900 mmc card reader ? |
| 14:22.59 | gggs | SpeedEvil: sounds like a neat hack, but a hack nonetheless |
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| 14:23.58 | peetah | I've just bought a transcend 16go class 6, and the N900 keeps messing with the ext3 fs |
| 14:24.16 | SpeedEvil | messing with how? |
| 14:24.17 | peetah | the card is written and read without problems with another reader |
| 14:24.32 | SpeedEvil | The stock software does not understand ext3 |
| 14:24.36 | peetah | SpeedEvil: it generates a lot of errors |
| 14:24.39 | SpeedEvil | you need to mount it manually |
| 14:24.39 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 14:24.47 | SpeedEvil | Or at least you did |
| 14:25.02 | SpeedEvil | read/write errors? |
| 14:25.04 | peetah | SpeedEvil: I use kernel-power |
| 14:25.33 | peetah | after writing on the card, e2fsck complains a lot |
| 14:26.15 | SpeedEvil | Do you get any errors? |
| 14:26.17 | SpeedEvil | In syslog |
| 14:26.43 | SpeedEvil | you need to apt-get install syslogd and then kill -HUP it when started up |
| 14:26.46 | SpeedEvil | at least I did |
| 14:26.47 | SpeedEvil | dmesg also |
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| 14:28.49 | peetah | SpeedEvil: the mmc card is recognized and the ext3 partition is mounted |
| 14:29.09 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - I wonder why my MMC isn't |
| 14:29.19 | peetah | but when I untar the NITDroid files for example, then the fs is corrupted |
| 14:30.21 | peetah | so I tried to install everything from another reader, put the MMC back in the N900 |
| 14:30.39 | peetah | it boots NITDroid, until it attempts to write on the card again |
| 14:30.58 | SpeedEvil | First step is to see if anything is popping up in syslog. |
| 14:30.59 | peetah | then a lot of IO errors are printed on screen |
| 14:31.19 | *** part/#maemo rmoravcik (~rmoravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 14:31.21 | SpeedEvil | Was this a card bought through legitimate vendors, or ebay/... |
| 14:31.27 | peetah | amazon |
| 14:31.48 | SpeedEvil | amazon themselves, or a vendor on amazon |
| 14:31.57 | MohammadAG | meh, QPushButton doesn't emit a signal when the button is held |
| 14:32.16 | SpeedEvil | See http://www.nickscipio.com/pod/2010/02/05/bunny-stocking/ for some interesting microSD problems |
| 14:32.17 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 14:32.18 | SpeedEvil | not that |
| 14:32.19 | SpeedEvil | damn |
| 14:32.22 | SpeedEvil | nsfw |
| 14:32.29 | peetah | and again, it works perfectly with another reader |
| 14:32.41 | SpeedEvil | http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 |
| 14:33.05 | SpeedEvil | I'm not saying it doesn't, it's just dodgy SDs can have wierd failure modes. |
| 14:33.15 | SpeedEvil | Especially if devices try to push them to their spec |
| 14:33.17 | peetah | :D |
| 14:33.29 | MohammadAG | alterego, can you help with this one? |
| 14:33.30 | peetah | nice hobby of yours |
| 14:33.45 | SpeedEvil | The latter link is a deconstruction of a microSD failure due to grey market parts |
| 14:34.16 | MohammadAG | alterego, I'm adding a media player control widget to mediabar, but it should only show when the media player button is held |
| 14:34.18 | SpeedEvil | I have the bad habit of just letting awesomebar complete on a strung, then cop/pasting it without looking enough |
| 14:34.20 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 14:36.21 | MohammadAG | looks at SpeedEvil's link, pondering if he should click it |
| 14:36.44 | SpeedEvil | It may contain breasts. Nothing too serious though. |
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| 14:37.07 | SpeedEvil | The second one is a forensic examination of microSDs |
| 14:37.36 | retro|cz | Je tu nÄjáký Äech s evropskou verzà N900 ? |
| 14:37.46 | MohammadAG | English only |
| 14:38.00 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, WTF indeed (first link) :P |
| 14:38.07 | peetah | the first one is nothing that could hurt someone here :) |
| 14:38.37 | peetah | I'll check the details shown on the second link, but I don't think this applies here |
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| 14:40.37 | trx | hmm, does anyone know how to open (a function or whatever) that window that opens when you press Fn+Sym (character list) ? |
| 14:41.00 | trx | or at least, suggest where should i look for such a thing... |
| 14:43.23 | MohammadAG | trx, there's no dbus way of doing it |
| 14:43.34 | MohammadAG | so I suggest looking at hildon-input-method's headers |
| 14:43.55 | trx | ty |
| 14:44.06 | trx | maybe im better off just making one myself |
| 14:44.13 | trx | as im using gtk2 |
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| 14:49.37 | pupnik | Dec 14, 2010 "In a landmark decision issued today in the criminal appeal of U.S. v. Warshak, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the government must have a search warrant before it can secretly seize and search emails stored by email service providers" http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/breaking-news-eff-victory-appeals-court-holds |
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| 14:51.16 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: yeah - saw that earlier. |
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| 14:51.56 | gggs | pupnik: wow, really? |
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| 14:54.22 | BCMM | the word "secretly" is important here - they can probably do it anyway... |
| 14:54.31 | GAN900 | pupnik, betcha it goes to SCOTUS and Sotomayor is the deciding opinion to reverse it. |
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| 14:57.45 | pupnik | GAN900: maybe, but it's a victory for now. |
| 14:58.14 | GAN900 | pupnik, assuming anybody actually pays attention to the court decision. |
| 14:58.21 | GAN900 | frankly doubts it. |
| 14:59.53 | pupnik | We'll see. :) I see positive changes in attitudes and thinking recently. |
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| 15:01.12 | MohammadAG | main.cpp:5: error: undefined reference to `vtable for watchSlider' wtf does this mean :/ |
| 15:01.26 | manzanos | hi again |
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| 15:07.42 | peetah | SpeedEvil: here is the syslog output http://pastebin.com/G7RXeaXz |
| 15:08.38 | SpeedEvil | I would try looking up the card statuses |
| 15:08.55 | SpeedEvil | Or even submitting a bug |
| 15:09.17 | ArGGu^^ | sivang I have not yet started making the custom gestures but I think I'm not going to use QML for it. |
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| 15:10.35 | peetah | SpeedEvil: so you think there is still a chance that it may be a software issue rather than a hardware problem ? |
| 15:10.56 | SpeedEvil | I suspect it's a wierd timing issue. |
| 15:11.04 | SpeedEvil | It could be hardware. |
| 15:11.14 | SpeedEvil | If that hardware is the n900, or the SD is another question |
| 15:11.32 | SpeedEvil | If I could freely return the SD, I would, and get another brand. |
| 15:12.57 | peetah | SpeedEvil: ok thanks for your help |
| 15:13.20 | SpeedEvil | Good luck. |
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| 15:16.31 | Noma | which is the best spotify client for n900? |
| 15:19.05 | DocScrutinizer | (ctrl-FN popup) learnt today it doesn't work in ovi maps search location input field |
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| 15:22.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | (SD card IO errors) May I remark there have been patches to the SD IF driver in PR1.3 |
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| 15:23.17 | MohammadAG | does anyone want/care about a daemon to lock the screen whenever the keyboard is closed? |
| 15:24.20 | DocScrutinizer | umm, nope. I'd do that with dbus-scripting |
| 15:25.22 | DocScrutinizer | just an additional 3 lines of shellscript to the file playing swooshsound on sliding kbd out |
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| 15:25.37 | MohammadAG | well, if anyone does (this was more of a daemon practice thingy) http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/slide2lock |
| 15:27.28 | DocScrutinizer | btw screen actually locks immediately, if you haven't touched it since it unlocked on sliding out the kbd |
| 15:28.18 | DocScrutinizer | alas it also stops that if you typed anything on kbd |
| 15:29.17 | MohammadAG | this locks it whether or not you touched it |
| 15:29.56 | MohammadAG | actually, ignore that, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/Qt-examples/slide2lock/ |
| 15:30.03 | MohammadAG | with sources and all ^ |
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| 15:39.15 | mikki-kun | is there somewhere a website where you explain said app :) |
| 15:40.16 | mikki-kun | cause the readme, if that really is all it really does, does indicate that closed keyboards will prohibit use of touch, disregarding if you receive a call or not and want to accept it e.g. |
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| 15:40.35 | MohammadAG | err, huh? |
| 15:41.00 | mikki-kun | does it prohibit the use of touch as long as the keyboard is closed? |
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| 15:41.41 | MohammadAG | no, it only locks the screen, same as the lock switch does |
| 15:41.55 | mikki-kun | ahhhh, so an auto-lock function? :o |
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| 15:42.42 | mikki-kun | and it can be opened by the small slider on the right side of the dev? |
| 15:42.52 | MohammadAG | similar to Symbian phones with a keyboard/slider, you can make it lock the screen whenever the keyboard is closed |
| 15:42.56 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 15:44.07 | MohammadAG | seems to have been requested here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48504 |
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| 15:56.41 | mikki-kun | sorry, was just again lost in a _book_ (that is the first time in years!) |
| 15:57.13 | mikki-kun | and kudos for that from me :) |
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| 15:57.29 | hrw | how to discharge n900: connect it by usb cable to underpowered usb hub |
| 16:00.06 | rm_work | lol, pain |
| 16:00.33 | rm_work | remind me to not do that, ever |
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| 16:21.14 | mikki-kun | hrw: i you want it to discharge fast? turn of wireless power management, OC, let flashvideos run or run an emulator while making heavy traffic over 3G and have gps on... don't forget bluetooth for your ps3 controller when playing games and have the speakers turned to max |
| 16:21.25 | mikki-kun | will give you an hour or two before it dies =p |
| 16:21.48 | MohammadAG | empties his battery in one hour without all of those |
| 16:22.12 | mikki-kun | we were talking about genuine batteries, not those rip-offs from china |
| 16:22.21 | mikki-kun | *checking where his battery comes from* |
| 16:22.23 | MohammadAG | genuine :P |
| 16:22.24 | alterego | And plug into TV? |
| 16:22.25 | mikki-kun | ohhh... it states china |
| 16:22.26 | mikki-kun | :D |
| 16:22.49 | MohammadAG | got a new battery cover |
| 16:22.58 | mikki-kun | i don't think tv-out is that much of a battery hogger |
| 16:23.03 | MohammadAG | can't put it on till I get a B assy, they refused to sell it :/ |
| 16:23.10 | mikki-kun | constantly lit lcd on the other hand surely is |
| 16:23.14 | MohammadAG | actually |
| 16:23.22 | mikki-kun | B assy? |
| 16:23.24 | mikki-kun | embassy?! |
| 16:23.27 | MohammadAG | just connect a hub with a flash and an optical mouse |
| 16:23.31 | MohammadAG | then fire up VBUS |
| 16:23.32 | mikki-kun | WTF you want that for?! |
| 16:23.42 | MohammadAG | umm |
| 16:24.01 | MohammadAG | it's the part of the body that includes the camera lens/power button/ etc |
| 16:24.01 | rm_work | B assembly? |
| 16:24.02 | rm_work | but i don't know what that means either |
| 16:24.17 | mikki-kun | ahhhh |
| 16:24.17 | rm_work | wait, do they sell better batteries for n900 now? :P |
| 16:24.35 | MohammadAG | http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 |
| 16:24.43 | MohammadAG | CTRL + F N900 B-COVER ASSY 253134 |
| 16:25.03 | MohammadAG | alterego, is there a way to get a QPushButton send a signal when held? :) |
| 16:25.26 | MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> alterego, I'm adding a media player control widget to mediabar, but it should only show when the media player button is held |
| 16:25.30 | alterego | Sure, "pressed" ? |
| 16:26.14 | alterego | Otherwise, inherit and override mousePressEvent |
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| 16:26.22 | mikki-kun | has anybody here a sports strap for his n900? |
| 16:26.38 | MohammadAG | alterego, I so hate that |
| 16:27.36 | MohammadAG | alterego, isn't pressed() emitted with clicked()? |
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| 16:30.20 | alterego | Dunno, try it. |
| 16:30.52 | alterego | No |
| 16:30.56 | alterego | Should be when it's pressed |
| 16:31.01 | alterego | and released when it's released |
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| 16:49.23 | DocScrutinizer | while clicked is pressed+released only |
| 16:49.49 | MohammadAG | yeah, but when you click a button it's pressed and released |
| 16:50.03 | MohammadAG | doesn't that mean both pressed and released + clicked() are emitted? |
| 16:50.07 | DocScrutinizer | wtf is /dev/shm/sem.nokiacal, or /dev/shm for that purpose (it has a max size of 65MB :-o) |
| 16:50.28 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: should |
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| 16:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | at least as I understand it |
| 16:51.40 | trx | OnClick activates when onMouseUp |
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| 16:53.34 | DocScrutinizer | trx: that's what I meant - might add "on same button" (it won't fire if you mousedown on a button, then drag outside of button, then mouseup) |
| 16:53.46 | trx | yeap |
| 16:54.05 | trx | that is how i know that its on mouse up event |
| 16:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | quite a number of apps use mouseDown instead of click, which is basically wrong for anything except stopwatches |
| 16:56.14 | scoobertron | is there any way of getting desktop command execution widget widgets to be more than 10 lines high? I want one to be the height of the screen. |
| 16:56.35 | scoobertron | or to change the font size for that matter. |
| 16:57.38 | trx | also, if you use on mouse down for a "loop event" it will flood it... |
| 16:58.07 | trx | same as when you hold a keyboard key in a text field |
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| 17:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 17:05.33 | DocScrutinizer | wtf is /dev/shm/sem.nokiacal, or /dev/shm for that purpose (it has a max size of 65MB :-o ), anybody? |
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| 17:06.37 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: we're to good to tmo :-P |
| 17:06.44 | DocScrutinizer | too* |
| 17:07.04 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 17:07.21 | MohammadAG | is trying to understand what means what here http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/0004-Nokia-RX-51-aka-N900-support.patch |
| 17:10.18 | javispedro | morning |
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| 17:15.59 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what's unclear? |
| 17:16.41 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: toldya you need that boot.scr file, and edit it to boot from eMMC |
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| 17:17.03 | MohammadAG | how to make it load from the eMMC |
| 17:17.08 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure where the uSD is set |
| 17:17.39 | MohammadAG | hmm, meego uses tracker apparently |
| 17:18.03 | ShadowJK | allegedly it "doesnt work" without it |
| 17:18.21 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yes I know, but the boot.scr file would be on the microSD, not the eMMC |
| 17:18.45 | DocScrutinizer | yes, that's hardcoded to uBoot |
| 17:19.06 | DocScrutinizer | I always thought that's a ... well poor idea |
| 17:19.20 | MohammadAG | so it's not maemo specific? |
| 17:19.30 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 17:19.36 | DocScrutinizer | it's N900-uBoot specific |
| 17:19.43 | MohammadAG | thought so |
| 17:20.40 | DocScrutinizer | +"loadbootscript=fatload mmc 0 ${loadaddr} boot.scr\0" \ |
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| 17:21.38 | ShadowJK | this is pure speculation, but normally things aren't hardcoded, but stored in the uboot environment. However, I don't htink there's any suitable writeable space on N900 without complete repartitioning of the nand, which is kinda hard to do online, and probably nobody remembers how whatever makes the nand image actually works anyway, so it probably got compiled into uboot instead |
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| 17:21.55 | DocScrutinizer | for weird reasons on early boot mmc0 is uSD and mmc1 is eMMC |
| 17:22.15 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: CAL |
| 17:22.18 | MohammadAG | that's even more problematic with meego DocScrutinizer |
| 17:22.29 | DocScrutinizer | why? |
| 17:22.49 | MohammadAG | if a uSD is present, it's mmcblk0, and the eMMC is mmblk1, if a uSD isn't present, the eMMC is mmcblk0 |
| 17:22.56 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 17:23.01 | MohammadAG | which is why I'm going to give UUID a go |
| 17:23.08 | ShadowJK | it's missing the scripts for identifying and giving them consistent names |
| 17:23.12 | MohammadAG | should work on 2.6.35 |
| 17:23.13 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I mentioned some days ago the CAL structure really looks to me like what I recall the uBoot env partition looks alike |
| 17:23.27 | MohammadAG | oh nice |
| 17:23.36 | dneary | I'm lost with a lot of these bugs |
| 17:23.40 | ShadowJK | CAL is of course full of other crap and nobody knows how it works or where it starts or ends :) |
| 17:23.46 | dneary | Just getting it in front of the right person is difficult |
| 17:23.49 | MohammadAG | I can't find the damn UUID from Maemo cause it doesn't support btrfs |
| 17:23.53 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (if a uSD ) ack |
| 17:23.55 | dneary | andre__, About? |
| 17:23.56 | javispedro | MohammadAG: note that afaik UUID rootfs requires a initrd |
| 17:24.05 | ShadowJK | yes. |
| 17:24.15 | MohammadAG | meh, that's out of the window then |
| 17:24.17 | andre__ | dneary, hi |
| 17:25.01 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, imo, the kernel needs a patch to always give consistent names |
| 17:25.32 | SpeedEvil | must remember to swapoff before unplugging sda. |
| 17:25.36 | MohammadAG | right now, my method of getting MeeGo on the eMMC is unstable due to these two things, uBoot not loading from the eMMC, and naming |
| 17:25.37 | libben | is there any IR app for the n900 ? that can record the signal from other remote? |
| 17:25.40 | dneary | So - how do you handle this - like in bug 3919, where there's no indication of what wpeditor does, its author doesn't have a bz account, and the original reporter is probably long since gone |
| 17:25.41 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/3919 Explain the usage of wpeditor |
| 17:25.48 | SpeedEvil | libben: no. |
| 17:25.52 | MohammadAG | libben, the hardware doesn't support receiving IR |
| 17:25.56 | SpeedEvil | libben: there is no hardware reciever |
| 17:25.57 | libben | ok |
| 17:26.04 | dneary | Do you try to get the information as best you can, or just throw your hands up & close as WONTFIX? |
| 17:26.21 | GAN900 | dneary, isn't that Midgard's WYSIWYG module? |
| 17:26.26 | DocScrutinizer | libben: not possible |
| 17:26.37 | GAN900 | dneary, moreinfo tag |
| 17:26.41 | GAN900 | close after 6 months. |
| 17:26.55 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@g230052132.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:27.04 | ShadowJK | I believe more in the debian approach. For example if I plug in a ethernet device, it becomes eth1. I plug in another, it becomes eth2. I remove them both, and plug in the second one. It's eth2. I have eth0 and eth2 and no eth1. Debian remembers device serial numbers and creates a consistent naming for them the first time you plug something in |
| 17:27.31 | DocScrutinizer | gnaexactly |
| 17:27.35 | dneary | GAN900, Is it? |
| 17:27.36 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: ^^ |
| 17:27.41 | SpeedEvil | Which leads to comedic approaches with random MAC numbers |
| 17:27.42 | libben | so what i need is a harmony remote or something like that, and record my remote with taht and then try to export the file and add it to the IR app |
| 17:28.03 | GAN900 | dneary, that's as far as I can remember from years ago. |
| 17:28.14 | dneary | GAN900, If it were, I'd be more confident of being able to get someone who could explain (a) how to include the widget in an application and (b) how to interact with it |
| 17:28.20 | GAN900 | dneary, find bergie and torture him until he tells you. |
| 17:28.46 | dneary | I just end up being frustrated it's assigned to me, when I think about it (seems most of the bugs assigned to me, I can't do much about) |
| 17:29.17 | GAN900 | dneary, clearly your job title is too vague. :P |
| 17:29.24 | GAN900 | "easybugmaster" |
| 17:29.31 | javispedro | is wpeditor oss at least? |
| 17:29.38 | dneary | GAN900, :) |
| 17:29.41 | dneary | javispedro, Yup |
| 17:29.45 | dneary | modest depends on it |
| 17:30.15 | javispedro | realizes "wp" means "WordPad" |
| 17:30.29 | GAN900 | dneary, ah, most be Nokia's silly text editor widget. |
| 17:30.39 | GAN900 | s/most/must |
| 17:30.52 | MohammadAG | or wordpress :P |
| 17:30.54 | RST38h | BTW, will this work with Maemo: http://www.slashgear.com/hidden-gamepad-underneath-chameleon-x-1-mouse-13119252/ ? |
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| 17:31.07 | GAN900 | andre__, those images for maemo.org and Nokia suck. |
| 17:31.23 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: (CAL) I think a second look at it - with uBoot env structure in your mind - might yield better results than the initial investigations done 2..3 years ago |
| 17:32.11 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: read out raw CAL partition, try to decode it using uBoot env algo |
| 17:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | see where you get |
| 17:32.41 | andre__ | reads the backlog as dneary did not ping |
| 17:32.50 | dneary | andre__, By the way, I didn't find any package called "osso-notes" |
| 17:34.02 | andre__ | huh? it's installed here on 20.2010.36-2 according to dpkg -l |
| 17:34.22 | andre__ | GAN900, what images? |
| 17:34.25 | *** join/#maemo scoobert2on (~tom@93.186.151.101) |
| 17:34.57 | *** join/#maemo scoobert3on (~tom@93.186.151.101) |
| 17:38.21 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I don't see too much of a problem with changing uBoot to fetch boot.scr from eMMC. Either it works only with uSD inserted, or it works only without uSD inserted (probably the less sensible case), but anyway nothing bad will happen if it can't find boot.scr, it will just boot as usual |
| 17:39.05 | ShadowJK | So I heard you get an uboot prompt if you have no uSD inserted? |
| 17:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: also iirc uBoot can easily be convinced to look at several places for a file, and use (dunno) either the first or last one it finds |
| 17:39.31 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sure |
| 17:39.40 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 17:39.54 | DocScrutinizer | you probably could even enter the raw commands to boot from eMMC there |
| 17:39.57 | *** join/#maemo Svavel (~max@bullerovre99.bitnet.nu) |
| 17:40.13 | ShadowJK | sure |
| 17:40.16 | MohammadAG | indeed you can |
| 17:40.24 | MohammadAG | but I don't know the commands to try that :P |
| 17:40.45 | ShadowJK | And if you had everything ready to go for a reflash, you could even try change the predefined boot command and then type "saveenv" and see if it sticks :P |
| 17:40.47 | DocScrutinizer | look at the area I pointed you at |
| 17:41.23 | DocScrutinizer | it won't, also you will have to be lightning fast X-P |
| 17:41.33 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:41.34 | MohammadAG | bootscripts will attempt to load uImage or boot.scr from a fat filesystem |
| 17:41.34 | MohammadAG | on MMC1 partition 3. If this fails, the appended kernel image will be |
| 17:41.34 | MohammadAG | booted using the stored ATAGs. |
| 17:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | as mrmoku not yet has tought uBoot to play nice with watchdog |
| 17:42.06 | MohammadAG | wakes up |
| 17:42.18 | MohammadAG | mmc 0 means mmcblk0? o_O |
| 17:42.37 | DocScrutinizer | I guess yes |
| 17:42.52 | MohammadAG | well that's easy to edit then |
| 17:42.56 | MohammadAG | gives it a shot |
| 17:42.58 | DocScrutinizer | yep, indeed |
| 17:43.19 | DocScrutinizer | o/ ->TV |
| 17:44.03 | MohammadAG | House? :P |
| 17:45.09 | *** join/#maemo spinningcompass (~hugo@99-28-158-70.lightspeed.frsnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:46.12 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.3sat.de/nano/ |
| 17:46.14 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.211.32.82) |
| 17:49.30 | javispedro | ponders about QT_RX71_MULTITOUCH |
| 17:50.08 | luke-jr | javispedro: is it an ugly hack that doesn't work sanely with X input? |
| 17:50.08 | alterego | Yeah, noticed that a while back |
| 17:50.21 | javispedro | luke-jr: that has gotten into upstream qt, yes. |
| 17:50.22 | alterego | Its' been there for ages apparently. |
| 17:50.42 | javispedro | always though the entire mt stack is fscked up |
| 17:50.46 | javispedro | *thought |
| 17:50.49 | javispedro | s/mt/multitouch |
| 17:51.22 | RST38h | RX71 hasmultitouch! yeaaaa! :) |
| 17:51.32 | RST38h | Wait. Where is RX71? =) |
| 17:53.45 | MohammadAG | wasn't the RX71 in the N8x0 kernel source too? |
| 17:54.00 | RST38h | Maemo5 kernel sources, with RX51 |
| 17:54.29 | RST38h | seems to have heard that it is some kind of a development board, nothing ofparticular interest |
| 17:54.38 | RST38h | May be wrong though. |
| 17:54.46 | MohammadAG | yeah, I know it was there, was just asking if it was in the N8x0's kernel too |
| 17:54.52 | MohammadAG | cause if it was, it's a myth |
| 17:55.28 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.146.47.20) |
| 17:56.25 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.149.129) |
| 17:56.37 | RST38h | Yoohoo, more riots! |
| 17:56.56 | javispedro | where, tmo or real world? :) |
| 17:57.13 | RST38h | IRL |
| 17:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | meh, RX71 is oooooold |
| 17:59.26 | DocScrutinizer | the string |
| 17:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | it appeared in kbd mapping quite some time ago |
| 18:00.53 | DocScrutinizer | and it probably was a development board at that time |
| 18:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | I'm quite sure it's N9 nowadays |
| 18:01.54 | javispedro | reads "/* Including math.h is not bad. It may become useful somehow */" and spits coffee out |
| 18:02.03 | *** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@189.2.128.130) |
| 18:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | ROTFL |
| 18:03.09 | DocScrutinizer | WTF? |
| 18:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | #include * |
| 18:04.43 | *** join/#maemo njsf (~njsf@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 18:04.52 | DocScrutinizer | linker will sort out XP |
| 18:05.11 | javispedro | the worst part is that I'm now 95% certain he's an actual professional coder |
| 18:05.39 | DocScrutinizer | nokia? |
| 18:05.52 | javispedro | no, a new friend I'm making in the preenv thread on tmo |
| 18:06.01 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 18:06.17 | RST38h | javis: really? may be useful? |
| 18:06.17 | *** part/#maemo njsf (~njsf@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 18:06.47 | javispedro | RST38h: math.h or the coder? =) |
| 18:06.51 | ShadowJK | Bad: someone posted a question with this level of language. Worse: Someone replied with helpful info in equally eloquent language. So bad it becomes almost awesome: it became a thread full of people talking like that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=897245 |
| 18:07.18 | RST38h | javis: math.h, I am decided about the coder |
| 18:07.36 | javispedro | laughs |
| 18:07.42 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Not the first lemming party on tmo, and they have become a norm lately |
| 18:08.05 | javispedro | "mp4 vedio formats" -- is that some kind of hard core porn? |
| 18:08.31 | RST38h | ShadowJK: But, look at it this way: they are having fun? -- check, they are helping each other? -- check |
| 18:08.36 | RST38h | What else do you want? |
| 18:08.47 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 18:08.53 | derf | I want a pony. |
| 18:08.58 | derf | Made of cake. |
| 18:09.01 | RST38h | here, have a pony |
| 18:09.07 | RST38h | made of a real pony cake |
| 18:09.19 | Venemo | hi guys |
| 18:10.26 | derf | Note that this is distinctly different from a cake made of pony. I don't want that at all. |
| 18:10.27 | lcuk | RST38h, agreed about your checklist |
| 18:10.29 | lcuk | thats important |
| 18:11.05 | lcuk | try reading comments on http://icanhascheezburger.com/ |
| 18:11.10 | lcuk | but note people enjoy it all the same |
| 18:11.24 | Venemo | hi lcuk o/ :) |
| 18:11.28 | Venemo | lcuk: how are you? |
| 18:12.04 | lcuk | i am better than yesterday, but not as good as tomorrow. |
| 18:13.20 | Venemo | yeah, me too |
| 18:13.42 | Venemo | lcuk: I wish you a speedy recovery :) |
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| 18:17.01 | *** join/#maemo marcel__ (~marcels@5265C40E.cm-8.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 18:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | throws cakes made by ponies at channel |
| 18:18.37 | javispedro | yawns |
| 18:18.45 | javispedro | discuss something, dammit. |
| 18:19.06 | javispedro | hm |
| 18:19.44 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.211.32.81) |
| 18:19.50 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I ultimately request Nokia to open up NOLO and CAL |
| 18:20.02 | DocScrutinizer | how's about that - for discussion? |
| 18:20.28 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I'm sure we can accurately predict time until WONTFIX with a nine nine's accuracy. |
| 18:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 18:21.01 | RST38h | javis: suggest a topic |
| 18:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | meh, short discussion |
| 18:21.26 | javispedro | ponders rescuing yesterday's pulseaudio bashing but thinks better of it |
| 18:21.43 | DocScrutinizer | *burp* |
| 18:22.23 | RST38h | suggest a POSITIVE topic |
| 18:22.26 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.211.32.82) |
| 18:22.48 | pupnik | 2010 saw more apps for maemo than 2009 |
| 18:23.04 | DocScrutinizer | new project: hostmode-addon-kernel-drivers |
| 18:23.09 | RST38h | 2009 saw more maemo5 apps than 2008! |
| 18:23.14 | DocScrutinizer | plus support |
| 18:23.31 | javispedro | 2009+2010 probably saw more maemo apps combined than the 200[0-8] |
| 18:23.59 | RST38h | 1900 saw no maemo apps |
| 18:24.00 | DocScrutinizer | 2010 seen more maemo apps than 2012 will |
| 18:24.09 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 18:24.27 | RST38h | there will still be symbian apps in 2012 |
| 18:24.42 | DocScrutinizer | yawns |
| 18:24.56 | MohammadAG | RST38h, I wonder if there be people in 2012 |
| 18:25.07 | RST38h | yes. some. |
| 18:25.12 | DocScrutinizer | eeeew |
| 18:25.18 | Venemo | MohammadAG: why not? |
| 18:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | what a letdown |
| 18:25.29 | javispedro | damn spoilers |
| 18:25.30 | MohammadAG | oh right, china has ships to help us escape the apocalypse |
| 18:25.31 | RST38h | Don't expect it to be fast and painless. |
| 18:25.37 | MohammadAG | that movie made me chuckle |
| 18:26.01 | MohammadAG | Venemo, ever watched 2012? |
| 18:26.09 | Venemo | MohammadAG: no, but I wanted to |
| 18:26.21 | javispedro | notes everyone is skipping 2011, where predictions would be more interesting |
| 18:26.26 | javispedro | will it be the year where fremantle dies? |
| 18:26.30 | Venemo | MohammadAG: I heard about the "we'll die in 2010" theory, I find it ridiculous |
| 18:26.38 | *** join/#maemo helloers (~helloer@acks46.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:26.43 | MohammadAG | Venemo, name one sane person who doesn't :P |
| 18:26.59 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: how's something to die that's born dead? |
| 18:27.13 | javispedro | touché. |
| 18:27.20 | *** part/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.211.32.82) |
| 18:27.35 | *** join/#maemo dockane (~dockane@dsdf-4d056fb1.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:27.37 | DocScrutinizer | though that even more applies to harmattan |
| 18:27.39 | javispedro | so, it will be the year harmattan dies. |
| 18:27.39 | Venemo | MohammadAG: hehe |
| 18:27.46 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.211.32.82) |
| 18:28.07 | DocScrutinizer | we can bet on the month it does |
| 18:28.14 | *** join/#maemo me|kor (~melkor@91-66-109-228-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 18:28.35 | DocScrutinizer | I'd but my chips on May |
| 18:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | put* |
| 18:28.48 | MohammadAG | wanted an N910 |
| 18:29.01 | lardman | so you reckon it will be released before May then? |
| 18:29.03 | MohammadAG | with 6GB RAM and an 8GHz CPU |
| 18:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | arms his marker and writes a fat bold 910 on MohammadAG's N900 |
| 18:29.36 | Venemo | nah |
| 18:29.41 | MohammadAG | YAY, 8GHz!!!!1! |
| 18:29.47 | MohammadAG | hmm, it's a bit slow |
| 18:29.48 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: I never said it will be released |
| 18:29.52 | MohammadAG | overclocks to 24GHz |
| 18:30.00 | Venemo | I want an N970... N900 hw in N97's body |
| 18:30.09 | javispedro | MohammadAG: remove the stylus. remove the stylus silo. overclock. upgrade to n9 complete! |
| 18:30.29 | Venemo | javispedro: plus, remove the keyboard :P |
| 18:30.38 | javispedro | that's yet to be seen. |
| 18:30.42 | MohammadAG | replaces plastic screen with glass |
| 18:30.54 | MohammadAG | javispedro, why isn't my screen working anymore? |
| 18:31.09 | lardman | I'd just like something with a bigger screen, decent gps and e-compass |
| 18:31.14 | javispedro | pointfully notes that there are resistive glass screens |
| 18:31.32 | MohammadAG | stabs a gorilla |
| 18:31.35 | javispedro | they just have a the small resistive layer ontop. |
| 18:31.39 | MohammadAG | ... screen |
| 18:31.43 | DocScrutinizer | heh, that Dell phone I've seen yesterday in TV, that had a lovely formfactor |
| 18:31.51 | lardman | Streak? |
| 18:31.53 | RST38h | Dell Streak? |
| 18:31.53 | MohammadAG | streak? |
| 18:31.58 | javispedro | strike? |
| 18:32.02 | MohammadAG | wants a steak |
| 18:32.09 | javispedro | (that was intentional :) ) |
| 18:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | no idea, just looked like 7" screen |
| 18:32.17 | lardman | is waiting for Doc to run down the street |
| 18:32.44 | RST38h | 5" |
| 18:32.47 | luke-jr | javispedro: there is no upstream Qt for Nokia -.- |
| 18:32.48 | RST38h | pocketable |
| 18:33.24 | DocScrutinizer | runs down the street, to get some food from butcher |
| 18:33.26 | javispedro | luke-jr: touché. I thought such horrible hacks would be kept to the qt-maemo5 branch. |
| 18:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 18:34.18 | javispedro | has been lately pondering getting a palm pre 2. |
| 18:34.34 | lardman | Linuxy? |
| 18:35.20 | javispedro | not to be a spammer, but I've realized that the fact they use js for system apps makes them from a pragmatic point of view more hackable. |
| 18:35.38 | MohammadAG | javispedro, spammer! |
| 18:36.43 | javispedro | I've already done stupid changes to the palm's music player (put the song title here, merge same title different artist albums into one) that would probably require me to disassemble the n900 media player. |
| 18:36.45 | ptl | learning git |
| 18:36.59 | lardman | javispedro: small screen on that thing |
| 18:37.19 | *** join/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:37.37 | javispedro | lardman: and lores.. |
| 18:37.50 | RST38h | pre sucks |
| 18:37.58 | lardman | is tempted by a Dell Streak, but slightly worried about lack of kb and lack of opengl drivers for Meego |
| 18:38.05 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@dial-140.elblag.dialog.net.pl) |
| 18:38.05 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 18:38.06 | RST38h | tiny screen, sluggish, unusable keyboard |
| 18:38.29 | lardman | 1GHz + 512MB?! |
| 18:38.32 | javispedro | RST38h: same thoughs (save for keyboard), albeit I feel the beefier cpu on the pre2 would help |
| 18:38.48 | RST38h | will use N900 for now, will see next year |
| 18:38.55 | RST38h | If Nokia does not deliver anything promising, Android it is |
| 18:39.08 | lardman | indeed, is a real shame |
| 18:39.20 | Venemo | RST38h: android is crap |
| 18:39.25 | RST38h | I know |
| 18:39.31 | lardman | the Android offerings are pretty good hw-wise though, don;t really fancy having to write Java code though |
| 18:39.34 | javispedro | also thinks Android is crap |
| 18:39.46 | javispedro | RST38h: on the pre you got PulseAudio, the devil you know! ;) |
| 18:39.47 | lardman | looks pretty and has good services |
| 18:39.55 | Venemo | lardman: believe me, android development sux |
| 18:40.04 | javispedro | RST38h: probably half of the reason it is sluggish =) |
| 18:40.15 | lardman | Venemo: hence my desire to buy something that is Meego-able eventually |
| 18:40.32 | Venemo | lardman: android = non-standard java with non-standard bytecode etc |
| 18:40.58 | lcuk | pleased to see Nokia Booklet trying to get meego capable |
| 18:41.04 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@192.194.209.20) |
| 18:41.04 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 18:41.11 | lcuk | managing it for that one device opens up a whole suit of similar ones too :) |
| 18:41.22 | javispedro | lcuk: it was just missing gma500 drivers aiui? |
| 18:41.31 | lcuk | yes, it is |
| 18:41.43 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 18:41.48 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@80.85.106.221) |
| 18:41.48 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 18:41.53 | lcuk | community devs are involved and we are trying to get him some test hardware over |
| 18:42.16 | javispedro | gma500 driver done by community devs? O.o |
| 18:42.24 | lcuk | javispedro, no |
| 18:42.32 | lcuk | forwarded and ported and advanced |
| 18:42.43 | javispedro | ah... |
| 18:42.46 | lcuk | theres videos of meego on joggler for instance (old 1.0 ones) |
| 18:43.03 | lcuk | if we can get the drivers lined up correctly they should become normally available |
| 18:43.13 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 18:45.11 | Venemo | is there something like #ifdef in a debian control file? |
| 18:45.42 | lcuk | Venemo, you can do conditionals |
| 18:45.43 | MohammadAG | not that I know of |
| 18:45.54 | lcuk | and afaik, you could base it on things, hold on I use it for something |
| 18:46.03 | javispedro | uses m4 for that task |
| 18:46.19 | MohammadAG | even for build depends:? |
| 18:46.22 | lardman | Venemo: what do you need to do? |
| 18:46.29 | lardman | unix {} |
| 18:46.31 | javispedro | MohammadAG: nope |
| 18:46.35 | MohammadAG | thought so |
| 18:46.44 | MohammadAG | uses shlibs |
| 18:46.47 | lcuk | https://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/master/src/Makefile#L12 |
| 18:47.09 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@2001:470:d2ad:1:4a5b:39ff:fe7d:1624) |
| 18:47.10 | lcuk | MohammadAG, build depends have their own pre categorisation available |
| 18:47.13 | Venemo | if I wanna package the same app for Maemo and for Debian/Ubuntu, I would want the Maemo one to use some Maemo-specific libs, this is why I'm asking |
| 18:47.26 | Venemo | lcuk: not makefile, control file |
| 18:47.42 | Venemo | lcuk: makefile is autogenerated by qmake, so I wouldn't touch it |
| 18:47.43 | javispedro | Venemo: they are the same |
| 18:47.43 | MohammadAG | oh, libqtm-sensors? |
| 18:47.55 | lcuk | Venemo, ah |
| 18:48.01 | javispedro | ep |
| 18:48.06 | javispedro | Venemo: disregard that |
| 18:48.12 | Venemo | javispedro: no. debian/control is not the same as a makefile. |
| 18:48.19 | Venemo | MohammadAG: yeah, that would be one |
| 18:49.49 | *** join/#maemo ponyofdeath (~vladi@user-0c9hbbs.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 18:50.04 | MohammadAG | has no idea |
| 18:50.10 | MohammadAG | why not use two control files? |
| 18:51.20 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 18:51.26 | Venemo | then how do I tell dpkg-buildpackage which one to use? does it even have such an option? |
| 18:51.57 | lcuk | Venemo, are you wanting qtm-sensors to only be on arm? |
| 18:52.23 | MohammadAG | no, I meant like, why not have two different source directories for ubuntu and meego? |
| 18:52.26 | MohammadAG | err, maemo |
| 18:52.48 | lcuk | has "libosso-dev [!i386]" for such a thing |
| 18:53.05 | javispedro | that would not work for debian vs maemo though |
| 18:53.18 | javispedro | there's just no reasonable fully-automated way |
| 18:53.19 | lcuk | which combined with the other part in the makefile ensures that osso is only imported and used on maemo |
| 18:53.26 | MohammadAG | indeed, since ubuntu might be running on an arm device |
| 18:53.32 | lcuk | nope javispedro |
| 18:53.43 | Venemo | lcuk: yes |
| 18:54.12 | MohammadAG | Venemo's app should run on a pandaboard, or a beagleboard |
| 18:54.28 | MohammadAG | so setting libqtm-sensors [armel] isn't the best way |
| 18:54.44 | Venemo | I would rather distinguish by OS and not architecture... although the latter is better than nothing |
| 18:55.37 | javispedro | there's just no automated way |
| 18:55.45 | Venemo | javispedro: :( |
| 18:56.07 | javispedro | iirc you should be able to partially do it with the "source" rule in a 3.0 debian package, |
| 18:56.18 | javispedro | but ofc that is a nogo in maemo... so far. |
| 18:57.18 | MohammadAG | 3.0? |
| 18:57.19 | javispedro | the m4 or cpp suggestion is still valid, but you will need to issue a regeneration of it before making the source package |
| 18:57.52 | javispedro | MohammadAG: http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0 |
| 18:58.02 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (~Sicelo@41.215.145.1) |
| 18:58.59 | javispedro | autobuilder has partial support for them because of the squeeze toolchain stuff, but probably not the entire stack |
| 18:59.53 | lardman | Venemo: use Boolean operators in the depends field |
| 19:00.19 | Venemo | lardman: could you show me an example? |
| 19:01.56 | lardman | Venemo: you can use | certainly: libebook-dev | maemo-version (<5.0) |
| 19:02.00 | *** join/#maemo NooBmonk3y (~NooBmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust164.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:02.07 | lardman | Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libzbar-dev, libdmtx-dev, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-dev | maemo-version (<5.0), libconic0-dev, |
| 19:02.07 | lardman | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:02.07 | lardman | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:02.07 | lardman | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:02.08 | lardman | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:02.15 | NooBmonk3y | Spaaaaaaaaaaaaam lols |
| 19:02.15 | lardman | oops, didn't come out so well |
| 19:02.17 | NooBmonk3y | evening alls :) |
| 19:04.41 | lcuk | heya NooBmonk3y |
| 19:04.45 | Venemo | lardman: thx |
| 19:04.47 | Venemo | hi NooBmonk3y |
| 19:04.48 | lcuk | i wanted you for something, but I can't recall what |
| 19:04.57 | lcuk | perhaps it was about my memory loss |
| 19:05.01 | lcuk | but I can't remember |
| 19:06.19 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:07.00 | Venemo | hm |
| 19:07.06 | Jaffa | sighs. Long day. |
| 19:07.19 | lardman | Venemo: whether you can do: some-maemo-only-package & maemo-version, I don't know |
| 19:07.27 | Venemo | ok, thanks lardman |
| 19:07.27 | lardman | hi Jaffa |
| 19:07.44 | Venemo | other question: what's the point of there being so many versions of GPL and LGPL, many of which are incompatible |
| 19:08.25 | lardman | Venemo: i.e. (and you probably realised it already) that depends line is adding libs that are for maemo-version>=5.0 |
| 19:08.32 | Venemo | it is ridiculous that a free software license can be incompatible with another free software license that basically says the same things |
| 19:08.38 | Venemo | lardman: yeah, I thought so |
| 19:09.53 | lardman | gives up on the idea of switching camera res on the fly |
| 19:10.02 | lardman | for the time being anyay |
| 19:14.19 | lardman | moves onto (dis|en)abling plugins |
| 19:15.58 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (~bilboed@74.pool85-50-217.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 19:19.13 | lardman | I've got to say I'm displeased with the implementation of MECARD encoding into QR codes one finds on the interweb |
| 19:19.36 | MohammadAG | hmm, how do I add auto line breaks to thunderbird? |
| 19:19.52 | lardman | Rewrap? |
| 19:21.02 | MohammadAG | ty |
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| 19:24.03 | RST38h | lardman: tried reading DHL routing stamp, mbardcode could not handle it |
| 19:24.36 | RST38h | lardman: weird construct, looks like qrcode, but not spatial markers, uses vertical/horizontal axis lines instead |
| 19:25.34 | MohammadAG | lardman, actually, it doesn't work :P |
| 19:25.43 | lardman | MohammadAG: sorry |
| 19:25.51 | lardman | RST38h: just looking to see what that might be |
| 19:27.09 | lardman | RST38h: can you post a pic? |
| 19:27.15 | lardman | I can't work out what it might be |
| 19:27.18 | RST38h | lardman: it is at work |
| 19:27.32 | RST38h | lardman: is a business mail piece too, so I better mail you the pic |
| 19:27.49 | NooBmonk3y | hey Venemo , hey lcuk :) |
| 19:27.50 | lcuk | how much info is in the barcode |
| 19:27.56 | RST38h | depends |
| 19:27.56 | lcuk | is it just delivery number? |
| 19:28.06 | RST38h | the DHL code? |
| 19:28.17 | RST38h | it is not a barcode to begin with, more like 2D qrcode |
| 19:28.25 | lcuk | mind you, yeah even after delivery its still got all info on it |
| 19:28.40 | lcuk | (using dhl tracker on a package from last week |
| 19:29.00 | lcuk | has waybill stuff for it |
| 19:30.05 | lardman | RST38h: cool, mail away |
| 19:30.48 | lardman | I will have a look at the pdf417 stacked 1D barcode stuff in ZBar next week, he says |
| 19:30.55 | lardman | :) |
| 19:31.56 | MohammadAG | lardman, it kinda ruined the email's format too :P |
| 19:32.29 | lardman | MohammadAG: another one of those occasions I wish I'd just kept quiet then ;) |
| 19:33.13 | MohammadAG | lardman, hmm, the mailing list formatted it correctly, no worries I guess ;) |
| 19:33.56 | MohammadAG | Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh <!--3 01292339083/20101214150443.7D2407BA39C@c-in3ws--02-09.sv2.lotuslive.com- --> <-- wtf? |
| 19:34.28 | RST38h | that is going to be your email address from now on |
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| 19:36.40 | MohammadAG | RST38h, looks so cool, I wonder what uni forms will think of it |
| 19:36.55 | RST38h | will mistype it, most likely |
| 19:37.17 | lardman | nah it'll get automatically spam filtered I imagine |
| 19:38.41 | *** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org) |
| 19:39.08 | RST38h | "...a weapons check is advised, followed by donning of riot gear and gas masks treated to resist type-14 neurotoxin. Civilians are to be told the riot gear is part of a theme night, and issued nonfunctional decorative goggles if they wish to participate." |
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| 20:17.46 | ioan | hi. so is that flash 10.1 from ti.com useable on N900? |
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| 20:20.10 | Juozapas | hi |
| 20:20.57 | Juozapas | there is any pc suite for using n900 call / sms writing functions from linux computer via bluetooth ? |
| 20:21.02 | DocScrutinizer | ioan: yes |
| 20:22.31 | ioan | DocScrutinizer: can I have it too? :-) |
| 20:22.34 | DocScrutinizer | Juozapas: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control |
| 20:23.10 | DocScrutinizer | ioan: dunno - if you got it, would you please share to me? |
| 20:23.33 | Juozapas | yeah but im looking for some program to control my phone |
| 20:23.49 | ioan | DocScrutinizer: I made the request, but no answer yet. |
| 20:24.03 | DocScrutinizer | so what do you think it is I pointed you at? |
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| 20:24.59 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I think he wants a GUI ;) |
| 20:25.11 | DocScrutinizer | MEH |
| 20:25.22 | MohammadAG | ioan, it's for board developers only, not sure how TI pick those, apparently, it's random |
| 20:25.34 | DocScrutinizer | it IS a GUI, with a lot of nice Icons called characters |
| 20:26.45 | DocScrutinizer | you need a wrapper app called errr... PuTTY |
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| 20:26.50 | Juozapas | yeah i want some gui :) |
| 20:26.53 | ioan | MohammadAG: well, I got from them some ICs samples before, maybe that qualifies me as a board developer ;-) |
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| 20:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | ioan: depends. If you used a Company address before and now, it sure will |
| 20:28.22 | `Ika_Musume | humm question, befor i install it , nitdroid can use any android app right ? |
| 20:29.26 | ioan | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I used the same account for both requests... and the account uses my company's infos |
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| 21:09.28 | RST38h | has seen a E7 today |
| 21:09.44 | RST38h | Well, an E7 mockup at the Nokia store. |
| 21:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | meh, where's javispedro? |
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| 21:24.37 | pupnik | spain |
| 21:25.25 | DocScrutinizer | yeap |
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| 21:25.55 | DocScrutinizer | whatever, wherever... |
| 21:26.19 | DocScrutinizer | we could teach uBoot to store envs at arbitrary location |
| 21:26.41 | DocScrutinizer | e.g marking some blocks as bad at a fixed location in eMMC |
| 21:27.26 | mece | RST38h, e7 is shiny. |
| 21:27.33 | DocScrutinizer | or simply write back to boot.scr |
| 21:27.49 | jacekowski | it's all about atags as somebody said |
| 21:27.52 | jacekowski | and making it all fit |
| 21:27.55 | RST38h | has got a bigger screen and smaller body than n900, which is more important to me |
| 21:28.03 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@149.80-203-123.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:28.09 | DocScrutinizer | *IF* we really are too stupid to figure how CAL is structured |
| 21:28.14 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:28.30 | jacekowski | i made a spec |
| 21:28.48 | jacekowski | somebody even started writing opencal library |
| 21:28.53 | mece | spec of dust? |
| 21:28.55 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: uBoot deals with atag just fine it seems |
| 21:29.06 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: uboot just passes them |
| 21:29.12 | mece | meh nvrmind. I'm out. tata. |
| 21:29.12 | jacekowski | atags are prepared by nolo |
| 21:29.45 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but completely unrelated to setenv / storeenv |
| 21:29.52 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:29.56 | DocScrutinizer | or was it saveenv |
| 21:30.40 | DocScrutinizer | hell, uBoot could even store envs back to very own program text location |
| 21:30.55 | DocScrutinizer | *IF* we really are too stupid to figure how CAL is structured |
| 21:31.08 | jacekowski | we know how cal is structured |
| 21:31.28 | DocScrutinizer | so what's wrong with uBoot using it then, to store envs? |
| 21:31.40 | jacekowski | somebody would have to write code |
| 21:31.46 | jacekowski | make udev even bigger |
| 21:31.49 | DocScrutinizer | eeeeew OMFG |
| 21:32.04 | jacekowski | and teach udev how to read/write to nand |
| 21:32.12 | DocScrutinizer | udev??? |
| 21:32.17 | jacekowski | uboot* |
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| 21:33.49 | DocScrutinizer | tzz I'd happily throw out some shit of uBoot, to get those 50k free to teach it to store env in a sane way, rather than have a precompiled set built in |
| 21:35.32 | MohammadAG | -rw-rw-r-- 1 mohammad 1000 2054848 Dec 15 19:55 combined.bin <-- keep this in mind ;) |
| 21:35.59 | RST38h | MohammadAG: Have you got a fixed hildon-desktop for PR.13 that I can install without breakingPR1.3 package? |
| 21:36.09 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: +#define CONFIG_CMD_ONENAND/* NAND support*/ |
| 21:36.38 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's not working apparently |
| 21:36.39 | DocScrutinizer | <jacekowski> and teach udev how to read/write to nand <--moot |
| 21:38.30 | MohammadAG | RST38h, hmm, define fixed :P |
| 21:38.50 | DocScrutinizer | hell it's working on OM uBoot, why do you think it doesn't on N900? |
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| 21:39.34 | DocScrutinizer | quite obviously uBoot *can* boot from NAND / |
| 21:42.52 | DocScrutinizer | and given we accept the pathological case where a block can't be written back due to coincidental breakage as a dead end that needs new flashing, it should be a nobrainer to read a block from NAND rootfs or anywhere (possibly from uBoot's own program text, const chunk), modify it in RAM, and then write it back |
| 21:44.56 | RST38h | Mohammad: "fixed" as the "damn phone rotation bug is nolonger present" |
| 21:44.59 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 21:45.27 | DocScrutinizer | that's unbearable you have to compile a new custom version of uBoot and plumb it up to kernel and flash it, JUST to change the boot sequence |
| 21:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: OM uBoot stores persistent env to a dedicated env partition. This partition content pretty much looks to me like all I heard about how CAL is structured |
| 21:47.54 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 21:48.13 | jacekowski | but om was a disaster |
| 21:48.17 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: <jacekowski> somebody would have to write code <--moot |
| 21:48.20 | jacekowski | nobody bought it |
| 21:48.46 | DocScrutinizer | so WHAT now? And N900 isn't available in white? |
| 21:48.54 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 21:49.06 | DocScrutinizer | WTF that got to do with uBoot env / CAL? |
| 21:49.37 | MohammadAG | RST38h, latest package of hildon-desktop from me is here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66586 |
| 21:49.43 | _trine | can the N900 send audio via bluetooth to 2 different headphones at the same time ? |
| 21:50.02 | DocScrutinizer | _trine: probably not |
| 21:50.13 | _trine | ah ok |
| 21:50.29 | DocScrutinizer | A2DP isn't a multicast protocol for all I know |
| 21:50.32 | _trine | pity because it woul dhav |
| 21:51.01 | _trine | pity because it would have been good for 2 of us watching the same film at the same time |
| 21:52.17 | DocScrutinizer | (CAL==env) <--exactly! we could even change CAL values via uBoot console then |
| 21:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 21:53.24 | asj_ | well you could pair with both headsets, duplicate the audio stream and stream to both headsets...but you'd have to code that up |
| 21:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | asj_: not sure if that's supported by the BT chipset/fw |
| 21:54.40 | asj_ | DocScrutinizer: hmmm |
| 21:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | NB A2DP can also accept raw PCM audio via dedicated pins on some BT chipsets |
| 21:56.23 | DocScrutinizer | so the "wrapping up" is done inside BT chip, not in sw |
| 21:56.57 | DocScrutinizer | it's probably not like raw packet injection that also doesn't work ootb for WLAN chipset :-D |
| 21:57.04 | asj_ | DocScrutinizer: that's just more code, implement a2dp in software ;) |
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| 21:57.26 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but then you need packet injection mode for BT |
| 21:57.55 | DocScrutinizer | where :::<DocScrutinizer> asj_: not sure if that's supported by the BT chipset/fw |
| 21:58.08 | asj_ | DocScrutinizer: really? it's just l2cap I assume, so can't you just open the socket and stream? |
| 21:59.07 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I'm talking outa my ass, so all that is an educated guess at best |
| 22:00.01 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not even sure if A2DP is crypted OTA |
| 22:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | or addressed at a particular peripheral (headphones) |
| 22:00.54 | _trine | I have a set of Nokia Bluetooth Stereo Headset BH-905 and I think they are very good |
| 22:01.05 | lardman | it's not crypted |
| 22:01.05 | DocScrutinizer | afaik everything is crypted on BT OTA |
| 22:01.23 | lardman | unless by hw |
| 22:01.30 | asj_ | DocScrutinizer: ah, in bluez 4 anyways, rfcomm and l2cap are just sockets you can open, like tcp, udp. a2dp is over avdtp which is over l2cap. So if you wanted to do all the work yourself it would seem possible. The crypting is done lower down, once paired you don't have to worry about it. |
| 22:01.37 | DocScrutinizer | sure that's done in BT hw |
| 22:01.42 | *** part/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 22:01.43 | _trine | it would be nice if both myself and my wife godd listen at the same time |
| 22:01.44 | jacekowski | i'm pretty sure bt is not encryptec |
| 22:01.54 | jacekowski | because there are bt sniffers that just work |
| 22:02.23 | _trine | godd // could |
| 22:02.26 | jacekowski | and strong encryption would make it complicated |
| 22:02.49 | DocScrutinizer | exactly, the crypting is quite likely done in BT hw, and the pairing is nothing but negotiating a crypto key |
| 22:03.13 | DocScrutinizer | so you can't pair 2 headsets if this isn't implemented in BT chip firmware |
| 22:03.31 | jacekowski | then how bt sniffers work |
| 22:03.39 | DocScrutinizer | I dunno |
| 22:03.44 | DocScrutinizer | do they? |
| 22:03.56 | DocScrutinizer | never seen any |
| 22:04.17 | jacekowski | yes, you just switch it on and you can sniff |
| 22:04.19 | DocScrutinizer | if they listen to the key negotiation then it's simple |
| 22:04.40 | jacekowski | not really |
| 22:05.04 | jacekowski | if you can sniff openssh connection from start that doesn't mean you can decrypt it |
| 22:05.18 | lardman | http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/32519-23-secure-bluetooth-encryption |
| 22:05.38 | DocScrutinizer | if you tell a sniffer the 4 digit pin shared secret, then it's just that simple |
| 22:06.52 | asj_ | well, and if it's 4 digits what's the brute force time to try 1000 combinations? |
| 22:07.03 | jacekowski | 1ms |
| 22:07.56 | asj_ | do you have anything to back that up? |
| 22:09.52 | jacekowski | well, modern cpu can do couple millions md5 hashes per second |
| 22:10.18 | jacekowski | and cheap bluetooth in phone can connect in miliseconds |
| 22:11.03 | asj_ | the connect time per spec is ~6seconds |
| 22:11.18 | asj_ | only bluetooth LE is ms range |
| 22:12.04 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: thanks :-) |
| 22:12.31 | nomis | I don't get how all this throwing around with numbers is supposed to help with recovering a session key. Even millions of md5 hashes won't help there. |
| 22:13.03 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: not sure that's the best ref ever mind you |
| 22:13.32 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: nevertheless it's good enough to support my thoughts |
| 22:13.36 | ds3 | what pin? BT doesn't use a pin |
| 22:13.49 | lardman | hmm must be getting late, am having troubles working out how to efficiently take a list of integers and make them contigous but still ordered |
| 22:14.11 | derf | What the gekk does it mean for integers to be contiguous? |
| 22:14.28 | lardman | well 1 and 200 are integers |
| 22:14.51 | DocScrutinizer | and now - as it seems A2DP is NOT sent in plain text either (freq hopping always taking place) - it's impossible to pair multiple devices if the BT firmware doesn't explicitly support that |
| 22:15.18 | derf | lardman: Okay, I don't have to revoke your mathematics credentials so far. |
| 22:15.47 | lardman | but they don't have a spacing of 1 |
| 22:16.06 | lardman | so I'd like to reduce that list to 1,2 |
| 22:16.20 | lardman | which is how I was defining contiguous integers |
| 22:16.31 | lardman | in my odd engineeringy way ;) |
| 22:16.42 | derf | I thought perhaps you meant contiguous in RAM. |
| 22:16.59 | lardman | no, just in the ether |
| 22:17.01 | DocScrutinizer | depending on how fast the BT chip can switch status&config, you might mux 2 p2p A2DP sessions |
| 22:17.03 | *** part/#maemo Juozapas (~qzaz@78-56-252-56.static.zebra.lt) |
| 22:17.03 | derf | But, I don't see how what you're saying is at all useful. |
| 22:17.31 | lardman | well I need to sort plugins into priority order, accounting for the fact that new plugins might be added and old ones removed |
| 22:17.50 | derf | n=length_of_list(l); for(i=1;i<n;i++)l[i]=l[0]+i; does what you want. |
| 22:17.50 | lardman | so I need to add, keeping what I can of the existing order, then remove any gaps and repeats |
| 22:18.09 | lardman | they are not ordered to begin with though |
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| 22:18.19 | derf | Add a qsort() before that then. |
| 22:18.36 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: you're talking about the good old BASIC line# renumbering :-D |
| 22:19.15 | lardman | hmm, Qt has a qsort, well that saves me doing that then, all good |
| 22:19.28 | DocScrutinizer | (from the times where basic programs had line numbers) |
| 22:19.54 | lardman | I seem to remember that you could assign any old number to the lines though? |
| 22:20.27 | DocScrutinizer | derf: =l[0]+(i*skew) |
| 22:21.38 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: yes, and they had not to be 'contiguous', but were executed strictly in ascending order |
| 22:22.14 | DocScrutinizer | btw COBOL did the same |
| 22:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | in very old standards |
| 22:22.42 | DocScrutinizer | COBOL65 or sth :-P |
| 22:23.50 | lardman | what I neglected to say is that while I need to sort one array, I need to know the sorted order of the original indices so that I can also rearrange some other related arrays |
| 22:24.08 | lardman | so qSort() is out, and I'll have to diy I guess |
| 22:24.43 | DocScrutinizer | eh? |
| 22:25.40 | DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest a pointer in each record of table A, pointing to corresponding records in tables B..n |
| 22:26.21 | lardman | these are QLists |
| 22:26.23 | DocScrutinizer | the you still can use any sort of sort of^H^H you like |
| 22:26.55 | DocScrutinizer | so what? isn't a QList a linked list of QObjects? |
| 22:27.39 | lardman | yes, but afaiu it can't contain both a numeric value (which I want to sort) and some sort of pointer so I can keep track of how my other lists need to be reordered |
| 22:27.42 | lardman | I may be wrong though |
| 22:28.13 | lardman | hastable I guess |
| 22:28.16 | DocScrutinizer | nah, not the list holds the pointers, the objects have to |
| 22:29.25 | DocScrutinizer | you instantiate a new Qobject that inherits the original Qobject plus the pointer(s) |
| 22:30.04 | lardman | I'm not sure how that will remain sortable though, ah I guess as long as it has a < operator it will be |
| 22:30.09 | lardman | seems like overkill mind you |
| 22:30.50 | DocScrutinizer | then you define the sort function, which is taking the "line number" out of each QList.Qobject and creates a sorted QList, then you discard the original list |
| 22:32.01 | DocScrutinizer | th enew QList has the Qobjects sorted and still they have each a pinter to their counterpart in another set of objects |
| 22:34.53 | DocScrutinizer | (overkill) well if you're using objects then you need to do OO, and also use object properties |
| 22:35.24 | lardman | yeah but I'm only using objects because that's the way Qt likes to handle everything |
| 22:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | a paradigm break is always causing headache |
| 22:37.51 | DocScrutinizer | once you understand that what you call an object is actually just a pointer, you get a clearer idea of the actual overhead involved |
| 22:39.24 | DocScrutinizer | so a QList is a linked list of address pointers |
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| 22:43.56 | DocScrutinizer | s/is a/is just a simple |
| 22:44.43 | lardman | it is simple, but requires me to subclass the QList, which I can't be arsed to do |
| 22:45.34 | DocScrutinizer | wouldn't it just be enough when you carefully design the objects in that list? |
| 22:45.38 | lardman | otoh it might make sense to combine all my data in a single object to save time |
| 22:45.52 | DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly |
| 22:46.01 | lardman | not at this time of night no :) |
| 22:47.51 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, have to get up in 6h |
| 22:48.25 | DocScrutinizer | might actually be better to *be* up in 6h :-P |
| 22:48.44 | lardman | it's also debatable whether the having a single list would be quicker as I need to search over two of the data types |
| 22:49.49 | derf | If you're using a linked list, it will be slow. |
| 22:49.53 | derf | -= The End =- |
| 22:49.55 | DocScrutinizer | you can create a second list from the first one, as a result of sorting it by second criterion |
| 22:49.58 | lardman | QList is not a linked list |
| 22:50.03 | lardman | it's an array of pointers |
| 22:50.39 | derf | Well, DocScrutinizer said it was. I don't know a damn thing about Qt. |
| 22:50.40 | DocScrutinizer | ouuff |
| 22:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | well, in the end it doesn't matter how it's built internally |
| 22:51.35 | lardman | anyway the added hassle of making my own type, implementing searching across more than one element of that type, etc., is why I'm happy to stick with a QList until such time as it looks too this that the other or slow |
| 22:51.48 | DocScrutinizer | that's the nice thing about OO |
| 22:52.14 | derf | I mean, you're talking about a list of plugins. |
| 22:52.22 | derf | People are going to have, what, a dozen of them? |
| 22:52.41 | lardman | quite, so it really makes no odds other than personal satisfaction |
| 22:52.43 | derf | Wake me when you have a hundred thousand, at least. |
| 22:52.45 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, academic problem |
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| 23:47.32 | Termana | good morning |
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