| 00:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | meh, meego will be nothing different to maemo. Wait til useable, then try to find out how it works, and RE stuff as nobody cared to document or share basic design rationale |
| 00:01.16 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~trumee@nat67.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 00:01.31 | alterego | Actually it's mostly all there .. |
| 00:01.52 | alterego | At least if you get involved now you can change things .. |
| 00:01.58 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha |
| 00:02.17 | trumee | guys, N900 wifi chip support broadcom or atheros better? |
| 00:02.28 | javispedro | ???????? |
| 00:02.45 | DocScrutinizer | really? we already reached the point where crap is implemented and now us suckers are free to "contribute patches"? |
| 00:02.52 | trumee | my wrt54gl got fried today. so i am getting an atheros based router. |
| 00:02.57 | javispedro | aaaaaaaaaa |
| 00:02.59 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.2.228) |
| 00:03.52 | alterego | So you have issue with something specific in meego you think was designed poorly? |
| 00:04.02 | DocScrutinizer | ...and google for documentation about what the F*CK meego is actually doing under the hood |
| 00:04.16 | trumee | bricked my router while patching openwrt on it. happy to see the sucker die. now i can get an atheros chipset and hopefully sip will perform better. |
| 00:04.31 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: actually, yes. The community design |
| 00:04.46 | DocScrutinizer | the TSG design |
| 00:04.52 | DocScrutinizer | the workflow design |
| 00:04.58 | trumee | but i have heard that wifi chips like their own brands then they do others. |
| 00:05.20 | trumee | hence was wondering about wifi chip in N900. |
| 00:05.42 | alterego | Oh? |
| 00:06.01 | alterego | Well, why don't you join in in the community office meetings? |
| 00:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | useless waste of time |
| 00:06.17 | trumee | i remember there was some bug report about tplink not connecting. |
| 00:06.40 | alterego | You seem to bitch more than proactivly participate :P |
| 00:06.55 | trumee | finishes his monologue. |
| 00:07.00 | DocScrutinizer | I couldn't care less to bitch about it |
| 00:08.58 | alterego | What is it you actually want then? |
| 00:09.11 | alterego | In you perfect world :P |
| 00:10.11 | DocScrutinizer | what I want? Not hear any lame but-there's-meego excuses for anything here at maemo |
| 00:10.42 | alterego | Riiiight |
| 00:11.05 | alterego | That seems a bit pointless |
| 00:11.08 | *** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.31.157.sysads.com) |
| 00:11.28 | alterego | What's wrong with moving to MeeGo? |
| 00:11.42 | javispedro | well, one could dislike qt. |
| 00:11.58 | alterego | If it ticks all the boxes you like in a mobile OS |
| 00:12.28 | alterego | Sure, as lots I'm sure dislike glib,gobject,gtk |
| 00:12.30 | javispedro | since it is philosophizing time, I'm gonna throw in my fears |
| 00:13.12 | alterego | Unless you're developing ... What do you care? :) |
| 00:13.28 | DocScrutinizer | for now maemo is more open and better documented than meego, and I don't see that change any time soon. Not to talk about quality of system design |
| 00:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | or maturity |
| 00:13.56 | alterego | Maemo is not more open than meego |
| 00:14.08 | DocScrutinizer | hah |
| 00:14.13 | javispedro | when I ponder what attaches me to Maemo, I usually think people, hackability, and the fact that Maemo is the most desktop-like linux distro while still keeping reasonable usability. |
| 00:14.34 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: ack |
| 00:14.44 | javispedro | WebOS also has (for me) people, hackability, but.. |
| 00:14.53 | javispedro | it is hardly the most desktop-like linux distro. |
| 00:15.03 | javispedro | custom window server, etc. |
| 00:15.05 | DocScrutinizer | where hackability is what I call "open in a sense of well understood and documented" |
| 00:15.17 | alterego | The same people are developing MeeGo, they are using what they know to have worked with maemo there aswell, with hindsight .. |
| 00:15.31 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha |
| 00:15.59 | DocScrutinizer | like fuvar braindamaged lis302 mainstream driver, compared to rather nice maemo counterpart |
| 00:16.47 | javispedro | and my biggest fear is that right now Meego's "main toolkit" is a toolkit owned by Nokia itself. |
| 00:16.58 | DocScrutinizer | asking what'S the rationale to use a basically broken driver for accelerometer, A was: well it's upstream |
| 00:17.06 | javispedro | which might cause (in fact ALREADY causes) Meego to move away from being the most desktop-like. |
| 00:17.34 | alterego | javispedro: how so? |
| 00:17.49 | alterego | It's more desktop like than maemo |
| 00:18.02 | alterego | if not in the ux in the core os .. |
| 00:18.10 | javispedro | the sad part is that I believe this is unavoidable, because nobody wants to move desktop linux these days |
| 00:18.52 | javispedro | alterego: did you miss the "Meego is a distro on itself" part? |
| 00:19.06 | DocScrutinizer | Q: and how's meego dealing with lis302 and other sensors? there's mce on maemo, you won't use that? A: no we use sensorfw, Q: where's that documented? A: google for it, noob. Maybe nowhere |
| 00:19.45 | ieatlint | i think one of my biggest issues with meego right now is that the sdk is only supported on apt-get, and yum/zypper distributions |
| 00:19.58 | ieatlint | whose brilliant idea was it to do that? |
| 00:20.16 | alterego | ieatlint: what else would you install it on? :P |
| 00:20.36 | ieatlint | sitting here on gentoo |
| 00:20.49 | ieatlint | had no trouble installing maemo sdk, or for that matter meego 1.0 sdk |
| 00:20.52 | javispedro | basically, competition platforms don't seem so away now (they're also "custom linux distributions" running a toolkit owned by their parent companies) |
| 00:21.10 | DocScrutinizer | ergo: contributing to meego is futile effort for me. A bottomless timesink |
| 00:21.14 | alterego | Not intel .. |
| 00:21.47 | javispedro | that's why I also sigh everytime I see yet another thing that potentially causes a X11 application not to run as is on any Meego UX :) |
| 00:22.00 | alterego | Heh |
| 00:22.51 | javispedro | let's bring in the rotation example, as I have that one in mind |
| 00:23.08 | alterego | So you're just going to sit here and do what exactly? |
| 00:23.11 | javispedro | handset uses its own rotation stuff instead of X11 one. |
| 00:23.16 | alterego | And for how long? |
| 00:23.19 | javispedro | pros: nice rotation effect. |
| 00:23.25 | javispedro | cons: doesn't work with non Qt applications. |
| 00:23.56 | alterego | that's a good point. |
| 00:24.04 | javispedro | how can I convince anyone on Meego I find this stupid? even I'm not sure I would want to throw nice rotation effect just to run SDL applications. |
| 00:24.25 | alterego | Heh |
| 00:24.33 | javispedro | and unfortunately there is no sane way to do cool X11 rotation without SEVERE coding work on X11 itself. |
| 00:24.46 | javispedro | something that's out of my reach for plain time reasons. |
| 00:24.55 | alterego | Yeah |
| 00:25.37 | javispedro | so I don't rant loudly, because I understand that Meego shipping with no iPhone-like rotation effect would doom Meego to certain failure... |
| 00:25.46 | javispedro | but yet I'm not easy about it. |
| 00:26.17 | javispedro | (now replace "rotation effect" with all the other problems, and you get the full picture) |
| 00:26.23 | alterego | sensorfw seems pretty well documented to me, for a pre-release library ... |
| 00:26.40 | javispedro | yet another thing that's different from desktop linux. |
| 00:26.48 | javispedro | this time, because there's nothing equivalent on desktop linux. |
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| 00:27.47 | alterego | compiz? |
| 00:28.03 | javispedro | I meant sensorfw ;) |
| 00:28.26 | alterego | sure, so? You don't need to use it in your apps :P |
| 00:28.55 | javispedro | but I want to. |
| 00:29.02 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: full ack. The main goal in my book is "make any arbitrary app run on N900 with as little platform specific tweaking the code as possible". Meego TSG seems doesn't have this point *anywhere* on their aims list |
| 00:29.42 | alterego | Why should that be a goal? |
| 00:30.09 | alterego | Okay, they've sort of missed it completely with mtf, but still. |
| 00:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: if you don't see why, then probably it's a waste of time to discuss it with you |
| 00:30.36 | alterego | We've never expected that from maemo .. |
| 00:30.46 | alterego | Why do you expect it from meego? |
| 00:30.59 | DocScrutinizer | I expect that from every linux |
| 00:31.33 | DocScrutinizer | and meego seems to become a ""linux"" much like android is linux |
| 00:31.35 | alterego | Well, you can, just don't expect it to be pretty ... |
| 00:31.42 | alterego | Rubbish |
| 00:32.14 | alterego | You can run what you want on meego, just don't expect it to iteract with the ux properly |
| 00:32.18 | *** join/#maemo BCMM_ (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 00:32.41 | DocScrutinizer | aah, you say they haven't messed up the CPU instruction set yet? |
| 00:33.08 | alterego | We're moving to neon fp soonish |
| 00:33.09 | toresbe | DocScrutinizer: so you want even more badly-adapted apps for meego than there are for maemo? |
| 00:33.29 | alterego | armv7hl |
| 00:33.45 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: meego is going to be weird and nonstandard? |
| 00:33.53 | alterego | Which will be a nice perf boost, something maemo will never have. |
| 00:33.56 | toresbe | the reason it's different-looking is because it's a different user interface model... would you dismiss a Linux made for a process-control environment because it couldn't run OpenOffice? |
| 00:34.31 | alterego | I never thought desktop like meant what you think it does :P |
| 00:34.33 | toresbe | I'd happily accept a rot13'd API if it only meant that I could get good, well-adapted, well-integrated applications |
| 00:34.33 | DocScrutinizer | toresbe: you are free to adapt yur apps to any degree you like. I want to be free to take e.g. OOo and simply compile it and get a miniature desktop experience out of it, however unusable and bad it might be |
| 00:34.41 | toresbe | _why_? |
| 00:34.54 | javispedro | toresbe: and you're here and not on #iphone why? you quoted steve jobs. |
| 00:35.07 | alterego | heh |
| 00:35.17 | toresbe | javispedro: I care about free, I don't care about "compatible with every single other free system" |
| 00:35.20 | javispedro | "I'd happily accept a flawed/reduced API if it only meant I could get good, well-integrated applications" |
| 00:35.33 | javispedro | Steve Jobs said THAT: |
| 00:35.58 | DocScrutinizer | toresbe: that's plain BS |
| 00:36.15 | toresbe | I don't want generic X applications running on my N900. I want a good N900 calendar. |
| 00:36.36 | javispedro | bah, can't find the quote quickly enough |
| 00:36.47 | toresbe | iPhone's API constraints is an important reason for why it's a better phone than the N900 in terms of the PIMey stuff. I'd be happy with a more specialized API, I just don't want a more _restricted phone_. |
| 00:36.49 | DocScrutinizer | toresbe: so go ahead and code it yourself |
| 00:36.59 | DocScrutinizer | from scratch |
| 00:37.19 | DocScrutinizer | as that's what you need to do when there's no compatibility to whatever has been there before |
| 00:37.24 | toresbe | DocScrutinizer: That's a weaselly argument and applies equally well to your own line of reasoning. It's on par with "if you like it so much why don't you go live there" |
| 00:37.42 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: there's no need to code it, he will just use Meego ;) |
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| 00:38.03 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, Nokia's meego flavour of calendar blob |
| 00:38.27 | javispedro | well, no calendar yet on Meego, but the reference handset one should be open |
| 00:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | as we all know maemo one was so great |
| 00:38.33 | toresbe | I don't want a blob, but I do want a calendar written for my telephone and not for my desktop and then shoehorned into my phone. |
| 00:38.40 | javispedro | wheter Nokia will use it or just distribute a blob "better" one... |
| 00:39.02 | DocScrutinizer | toresbe: you're no developer, are you? |
| 00:39.15 | toresbe | DocScrutinizer: Yes, I am. |
| 00:39.16 | alterego | it is open, and uses kdes calndar backend |
| 00:39.27 | DocScrutinizer | oh, sorry for you then |
| 00:39.52 | toresbe | DocScrutinizer: Dude. Just because we disagree on something doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it. |
| 00:39.52 | chem|st | we should force something looking like orage |
| 00:40.01 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: you can run desktop apps just like you can on maemo .. |
| 00:40.12 | alterego | craply integrated without work. |
| 00:40.19 | toresbe | I don't want an iPhone-ey "this solution is what you will use and we know better". Nor do I want 10 different buggy one-person projects with truly horrifying UIs (the Spotifies for N900 spring to mind) |
| 00:40.38 | alterego | I was thinking today though, after someone mentioning skype.. |
| 00:40.39 | javispedro | toresbe: but having none is unavoidable |
| 00:40.43 | javispedro | toresbe: you have to choose |
| 00:40.54 | alterego | That along with flash we probably wont have skype either. |
| 00:41.01 | javispedro | toresbe: between "we know better, use this" and having a fragmented ecosystem. |
| 00:41.45 | toresbe | I want a fragmented ecosystem with good, standardized interfaces. :) |
| 00:42.00 | javispedro | fragmented implies buggy one-person projects |
| 00:42.04 | *** join/#maemo Gorroth (~grimw@ool-457c30a5.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:42.32 | toresbe | Sure, but it doesn't imply that they will all be that way. |
| 00:42.32 | javispedro | someone will eventually want to use, I don't know, Brainfuck to code an application. |
| 00:42.32 | chem|st | n900 was the first 'ships with skype' mobilephone-computer-something so I guess skype will give a heads up for meego aswell |
| 00:42.42 | chem|st | javispedro: caldav! |
| 00:42.51 | *** join/#maemo Kegetys (~kegetys@ZYMCXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:43.04 | toresbe | I completely agree with Steve Jobs on the argument of not installing Flash. 110%. |
| 00:43.06 | alterego | chem|st: maybe |
| 00:43.13 | alterego | pfft |
| 00:43.26 | alterego | Why shouldn't we have it ... |
| 00:43.30 | javispedro | chem|st: caldav is coded using brainfuck? =) |
| 00:43.40 | toresbe | Well, for one thing, Flash can't do shit on my N900. |
| 00:43.44 | chem|st | alterego: if meego gets growing like they think it will skype will have their hand in game |
| 00:43.54 | toresbe | I've never seen a Flash app work satisfactorily on my device... |
| 00:44.01 | chem|st | toresbe: flash can't do shit anywhere |
| 00:44.03 | alterego | chem|st: but probably not in obs :P |
| 00:44.16 | toresbe | Sure it can. Works nice on my desktop for the things open standards don't yet :) |
| 00:44.28 | javispedro | Meego will never have skype -- it's closed. |
| 00:44.41 | javispedro | and Skype is not going to add a freely redistributable clause for no reason. |
| 00:44.45 | DocScrutinizer | and will stay closed |
| 00:44.55 | javispedro | now, device X using Meego might or might not pay Skype royalties/whatever they demand. |
| 00:45.04 | chem|st | toresbe: I have a running 64bit linux and all I never got to work properly is java |
| 00:45.10 | DocScrutinizer | and crypted binary |
| 00:45.11 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 00:45.11 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 00:45.15 | alterego | javispedro: I was thinking under the same restrictions they ship their desktop version .. |
| 00:45.17 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@212.200.199.165) |
| 00:45.20 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: "security framework" *shudders* |
| 00:45.29 | DocScrutinizer | yooohohohohho |
| 00:45.30 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: so, hg qpop/pull/qpush seems to be a deathwish |
| 00:45.32 | timeless_mbp | => panic |
| 00:45.32 | DocScrutinizer | brrrrrrrrrrr |
| 00:45.39 | toresbe | Much like in the world of politics, freedom is only a formality when you yourself cannot mobilize the resources to take advantage of them. |
| 00:46.01 | alterego | anyhow bedtime g'night. |
| 00:46.03 | toresbe | I have no freedom to use Google Calendar with my N900 because I don't have the time and skill to write an integration that works. |
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| 00:46.07 | sp3000 | timeless_mbp: clearly you need something that works |
| 00:46.13 | javispedro | alterego: oh, *I'd wish* Meego would be able to convert the mobile application market into something vertical like the PC one. |
| 00:46.16 | javispedro | alterego: gnite. |
| 00:46.16 | sp3000 | now that you've tried windows and mac, ... ;) |
| 00:46.26 | timeless_mbp | BeOS? |
| 00:46.29 | alterego | javispedro: me too ;) |
| 00:46.32 | toresbe | OpenVMS! |
| 00:46.43 | sp3000 | I'm assuming you tried that already |
| 00:46.44 | timeless_mbp | i have OS/2 install media somewhere |
| 00:46.46 | javispedro | timeless_mbp: BeOS works! |
| 00:46.49 | BCMM_ | HURD |
| 00:46.52 | BCMM_ | ducks |
| 00:47.02 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: I have a BeOS derivative too |
| 00:47.06 | sp3000 | ducks sounds like a more plausible computing platform |
| 00:47.06 | toresbe | My VMS box doesn't. I powered it up the other day to counteract the effects of winter on my apartment. |
| 00:47.08 | sp3000 | ducks |
| 00:47.25 | javispedro | I was a BeOS user before a Linux one. I think I still have GoBe Productive around =) |
| 00:47.36 | timeless_mbp | nice |
| 00:47.39 | toresbe | I need to power up my IRIX box too, I'm freezing here |
| 00:47.43 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 00:47.52 | timeless_mbp | irix boxes are good as space heaters |
| 00:48.02 | toresbe | indeed |
| 00:48.19 | toresbe | Actually I think I'll power up my PDP-11 instead. |
| 00:48.34 | timeless_mbp | you have one of those too? |
| 00:48.37 | toresbe | several |
| 00:48.56 | timeless_mbp | adding [ ] 43/2553 0h33m |
| 00:49.00 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: =) |
| 00:49.01 | toresbe | four in my apartment |
| 00:49.05 | timeless_mbp | adding [> ] 92/2553 0h22m |
| 00:49.12 | timeless_mbp | is happy |
| 00:49.35 | toresbe | more in the basement, which is why my back hurts now. |
| 00:49.52 | timeless_mbp | adding [==========> ] 527/2553 6m04s |
| 00:49.52 | sp3000 | timeless_mbp: the first 11 minures were cheap eh |
| 00:49.57 | timeless_mbp | yep |
| 00:50.04 | sp3000 | but at least it's going the right way ;) |
| 00:50.05 | timeless_mbp | clearly a slow start |
| 00:50.12 | timeless_mbp | yeah... vbox was funny |
| 00:50.23 | timeless_mbp | vbox was making progress but steadily adding time |
| 00:50.27 | timeless_mbp | 1s, 2.... 50 |
| 00:50.33 | timeless_mbp | at around 50s it changed to 0min |
| 00:50.38 | timeless_mbp | until it actually reached 1min |
| 00:50.40 | sp3000 | so was the mac disk tool repair deal too fwiw |
| 00:50.43 | timeless_mbp | then it started adding seconds |
| 00:50.47 | timeless_mbp | lol |
| 00:50.52 | timeless_mbp | nice |
| 00:50.57 | timeless_mbp | adding [====================================> ] 1788/2553 1m09s |
| 00:51.02 | sp3000 | it's ballistic estimation |
| 00:51.18 | timeless_mbp | adding [============================================> ] 2145/2553 0m35s |
| 00:51.39 | timeless_mbp | adding [==================================================> ] 2444/2553 0m10s |
| 00:52.26 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: so |
| 00:52.32 | chem|st | toresbe: got 2 pdp11 at work and I would never ever think of taking one with me... |
| 00:52.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture is really poor. For meego I'd expect something much better, with more detail and more discussion leading to consensual decissions about each detail. Fact however is I've not seen anything like that yet for meego |
| 00:52.38 | timeless_mbp | why would finnish captions translate 43 minutes into 45mins? |
| 00:53.00 | timeless_mbp | does finnish as a language not support minutes in units that are not multiples of 5? |
| 00:53.11 | BCMM_ | file a bug. |
| 00:53.24 | javispedro | well, check the grammar. I guess you can find it in EBNF format around. |
| 00:53.56 | BCMM_ | now who maintains Finnish these days? |
| 00:54.23 | sp3000 | timeless_mbp: which captions? |
| 00:54.37 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: ncis: <california> |
| 00:54.57 | timeless_mbp | can't remember the right name |
| 00:54.59 | sp3000 | oh, they're just really random with numbers |
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| 00:56.03 | sp3000 | maybe it's the duck |
| 00:56.28 | sp3000 | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2349378/new-programming-jargon-you-coined/2444361#2444361 |
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| 01:04.17 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: hey! |
| 01:04.21 | timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ hg qser|wc -l |
| 01:04.22 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:04.27 | timeless_mbp | my qseries is <200 patches! |
| 01:05.46 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 01:05.54 | timeless_mbp | google chrome didn't save my session before the os panic |
| 01:05.58 | timeless_mbp | so i lost all my tabs |
| 01:07.20 | timeless_mbp | thankfully history works |
| 01:07.41 | javispedro | this reminds me that Linux used to sync before a panic |
| 01:07.45 | javispedro | not anymore =( |
| 01:07.51 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 01:08.43 | SpeedEvil | Firefox saves |
| 01:09.16 | sp3000 | timeless_mbp: 101+43 |
| 01:09.20 | sp3000 | you win :) |
| 01:09.37 | timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ hg qser -R ../comm-central/|wc -l |
| 01:09.38 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:09.58 | timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ hg qser -R ../../intevation.org/hg-crew|wc -l |
| 01:09.59 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:10.54 | timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ wc -l ../../*/*/.hg/patches/series |
| 01:10.58 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:11.22 | DocScrutinizer | mrmoku seems is about to teach uboot how to play nice with N900 wd :-) |
| 01:11.54 | DocScrutinizer | I'll throw in a dirty charger, prior to publishing it |
| 01:12.01 | timeless_mbp | there's also 32 patches to transifex |
| 01:12.06 | timeless_mbp | but i hope those are all obsolete |
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| 02:31.41 | Yigal | hey dudes |
| 02:32.20 | Yigal | really |
| 02:32.22 | Yigal | owell |
| 02:32.28 | Yigal | that's sad but I can deal |
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| 02:39.07 | javispedro | ?? |
| 02:39.25 | GAN900 | yawns. |
| 02:39.26 | javispedro | did you just said "that's said" to a leaving message? :) |
| 02:39.30 | *** join/#maemo lmoura_ (~anonfoo@187.78.107.243) |
| 02:39.33 | javispedro | *sad |
| 02:39.35 | blackthorne | hi |
| 02:49.42 | Yigal | hello |
| 02:49.58 | Yigal | it's just that Maemo was so awsome |
| 02:50.06 | Yigal | N900 hurt that |
| 02:50.08 | Yigal | then Meego |
| 02:50.12 | Yigal | well anyways |
| 02:50.17 | Yigal | you all know the rest |
| 02:50.29 | Yigal | we have our N900s |
| 02:50.36 | Yigal | but it could have been way better |
| 02:50.58 | Yigal | never again Nokia |
| 02:51.16 | blackthorne | n900 doesn't support MMS. I feel cheated, considering this is the Nokia shark for me |
| 02:51.36 | blackthorne | other than that, hell of a machine |
| 02:51.49 | Yigal | it's the most solid open source well funded project |
| 02:51.55 | Yigal | so sad |
| 02:52.09 | blackthorne | why sad? |
| 02:52.30 | Yigal | "We aren't going to support you", Nokia |
| 02:52.37 | Yigal | Meego time |
| 02:52.39 | Yigal | lol |
| 02:52.43 | Yigal | imo |
| 02:52.48 | blackthorne | Meego time, is going to take time |
| 02:52.56 | Yigal | exactly |
| 02:53.08 | Yigal | why not support us in the mean time |
| 02:53.12 | Yigal | lol |
| 02:53.26 | Yigal | it's ok |
| 02:53.46 | blackthorne | but is it official that the N900 will not officialy support MeeGo? |
| 02:54.46 | blackthorne | I use Mac OS X and the N900 made me miss GNU/Linux as my desktop OS |
| 02:54.51 | Yigal | having a phone that can bt anything on piratebay etc. is fine with me |
| 02:55.12 | blackthorne | "phone", well yes N900 also makes calls |
| 02:55.14 | Yigal | ssh, c, c++, fortran, maxima, etc |
| 02:55.21 | Yigal | blackthorne: lol |
| 02:56.15 | blackthorne | to be perfect, it would be the iPhone4 hardware with a removable battery and sliding keyboard |
| 02:56.26 | blackthorne | I mean, thinner and with better touch UI |
| 02:56.59 | Yigal | what I would have wanted is roughly the specs of the viliv s5 that works well with open source/linux etc. |
| 02:57.29 | Yigal | viliv s5 has an atom proc. 1.33mhz and I have 2gb of ram |
| 02:57.35 | Yigal | that's what I wanted |
| 02:58.16 | Yigal | forget the galexy tab forget the droid linux time, that would have killed |
| 02:58.40 | luke-jr | blackthorne: sliding kb ftl |
| 02:59.15 | luke-jr | Yigal: AFAIK, no Atom works well with open source/Linux |
| 02:59.28 | luke-jr | they all(?) have GMA500 which has no 3D accel for Linux/open |
| 02:59.47 | Yigal | 950 works fine |
| 02:59.58 | Yigal | 500 is the sticking point |
| 03:00.27 | luke-jr | some atom have 950? |
| 03:00.36 | Yigal | sure my asus netbook does |
| 03:00.53 | Yigal | well my non tablet netbook does |
| 03:01.11 | Yigal | my tablet has the mthr f*ng 500 my t91mt |
| 03:01.21 | Yigal | I have to use windows 7 with it so sad |
| 03:02.21 | Yigal | the EMGD is almost there I here |
| 03:02.30 | Yigal | s/here/hear |
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| 03:03.25 | Yigal | sorry about the obscenity but it's important to me |
| 03:03.45 | Yigal | ok sorry |
| 03:03.47 | *** part/#maemo Yigal (~Yigal@pool-96-229-184-45.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:03.54 | chx | luke-jr: huh? |
| 03:04.34 | chx | luke-jr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsVideoCardsPoulsbo/ study the 3D column. |
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| 03:06.42 | blackthorne | back |
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| 03:07.06 | blackthorne | maybe steve is right, flash just crashed my linux machine, at least the UI |
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| 03:08.54 | blackthorne | this vilic s5 looks awesome indeed |
| 03:09.02 | blackthorne | viliv |
| 03:09.56 | luke-jr | chx: Ubuntu likes to swap Linux out for proprietary forks of it when they feel like it |
| 03:10.18 | chx | that's totally not the case in this case.... but, as you wish |
| 03:10.38 | luke-jr | chx: then show me the source |
| 03:10.54 | luke-jr | that page itself says it is closed |
| 03:11.18 | luke-jr | " Due to partial close nature of the driver, because Intel has not released an open source driver" |
| 03:11.56 | javispedro | luke-jr: some atom have gma950 or descendants (gma3150 is the one on the meegoconf lenovos) |
| 03:12.07 | javispedro | conveniently, gma950 works with the i915 driver... |
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| 03:13.24 | chx | you said " Ubuntu likes to swap Linux out for properitary forks of it" -- this is something I do not even want to begin to debate. |
| 03:14.39 | chx | this basically says there is a "Linux" and there are "properitary forks" of it. Really, whatever, Despite being an open source for more than six years now, I did not become a zealot. There is no point in debating zealotry. |
| 03:14.49 | chx | *open source programmer |
| 03:15.14 | luke-jr | that is the reality |
| 03:16.54 | chx | Your reality, of course. There is another, of course :) |
| 03:16.59 | luke-jr | nonsense |
| 03:17.01 | luke-jr | there is one reality |
| 03:17.05 | *** part/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 03:17.36 | luke-jr | it only seems like there are multiple to someone who is delusional |
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| 03:29.14 | ieatlint | there are multiple realities |
| 03:29.21 | ieatlint | i see people all the time experiencing them |
| 03:29.33 | b-man` | it's amazing what a little robotic helicopter can do :) http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8O5RBcwmjY |
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| 04:07.48 | Termana | Good morning |
| 04:12.48 | luke-jr | ieatlint: delusions are not realities |
| 04:13.43 | eggonlea | DocScrutinizer: Thanks, I guess the battery is too low. Charging the BL-5J in N810 - thanks someone's post in internet and Quim. |
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| 04:27.53 | GAN900 | luke-jr, difficult thing to objectively measure. |
| 04:28.57 | ieatlint | yeah, i'd say reality is extremely subjective |
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| 04:29.43 | GAN900 | Now, try sitting in front of a mirror and saying your own name 100 times slowly. |
| 04:30.19 | luke-jr | GAN900: measurement is another matter :_ |
| 04:30.21 | luke-jr | ⺠|
| 04:31.31 | GAN900 | luke-jr, did you bring this damn cold weather down with you? |
| 04:34.29 | luke-jr | GAN900: sorry â¹ |
| 04:41.16 | DocScrutinizer | eggonlea: good :-) and welcome |
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| 04:55.21 | DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn |
| 04:55.21 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is coffee |
| 04:55.33 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 04:55.33 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 04:55.52 | MohammadAG | morning |
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| 05:03.08 | DocScrutinizer | mo moh |
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| 05:11.36 | Jay_BEE | hola |
| 05:12.58 | blackthorne | hi |
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| 05:30.24 | johnx | ~lart phone companies |
| 05:30.24 | infobot | pries phone companies's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to phone companies |
| 05:30.42 | johnx | I wish it was that simple infobot, but thanks for the thought |
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| 06:07.46 | lolloo | guys what are these? |
| 06:07.47 | lolloo | http://img.techpowerup.org/101209/Capture2001.jpg |
| 06:08.24 | lolloo | are they somekind of recording? |
| 06:09.13 | johnx | some kind of control for switching which camera is used by default |
| 06:09.52 | lolloo | alright. |
| 06:13.44 | RST38h | moo all |
| 06:13.49 | RST38h | morning/night johnx |
| 06:14.23 | johnx | mornin' RST38h |
| 06:15.29 | MikaT | lolloo, johnx: I believe the picture is about a package called "maemo5-load-applet", and the camera icon on the right if for taking a screenshot. |
| 06:15.59 | johnx | ah, maybe so then. thanks |
| 06:18.16 | lolloo | I still need to scroll down to get to flashlight |
| 06:18.29 | lolloo | but in the screenshot it seems constant |
| 06:18.53 | lolloo | how can I make all apear without scrolling the status menu? |
| 06:19.48 | lolloo | I have 5 lines including the battery, but the sixth line is hidden |
| 06:19.59 | lolloo | needs scrolling down more. |
| 06:20.11 | sleepee | hello people |
| 06:20.55 | sleepee | are there any developers here? |
| 06:21.20 | johnx | what kind of developers are you looking for? |
| 06:22.25 | *** join/#maemo Zucca (zucca@cs181186108.pp.htv.fi) |
| 06:22.46 | MikaT | lolloo: I suppose you have lots of packages installed which add their icon there. Not all apps do that, but some do. |
| 06:22.49 | sleepee | anybody that develops for n900... python specifically. |
| 06:22.57 | lolloo | hehe |
| 06:23.49 | sleepee | i was just curious if anybody's used illumination software creator to make apps for the n900.. |
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| 06:33.46 | Gh0sty | hmm swappolube crashes when started |
| 06:34.02 | Gh0sty | is there a way to debug this actually ... why an application is crashing? :/ |
| 06:36.12 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@81.18.92.10) |
| 06:36.49 | Gh0sty | actually what am i asking ... first look at the logs :x |
| 06:37.19 | johnx | try and run it from an xterm |
| 06:37.30 | Gh0sty | hmmm |
| 06:37.45 | Gh0sty | lastlog is 8.4 MB but a tail -50 lastlog gives nothing???? :/ |
| 06:40.29 | DocScrutinizer | lolloo: johnx: the left one is for screencasts (taking video screenshots), the right one is triggering a picture screenshot |
| 06:40.41 | johnx | cute |
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| 06:40.52 | johnx | I ASSumed, and it seems I was wrong :) |
| 06:40.58 | lolloo | awesome |
| 06:41.21 | lolloo | I thought it would be something related to streaming camera over to pc |
| 06:41.26 | DocScrutinizer | and yes, it's a icing on top of load applet |
| 06:42.15 | Gh0sty | where the sip module implements api v8.0 but the pyqt4gui module requires api v7.1 |
| 06:42.19 | Gh0sty | ???? |
| 06:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | not that screen video works exceptionally well for me. I get jumps and dropouts that make it basically worthless |
| 06:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | kinda fast forward video |
| 06:43.12 | Gh0sty | i need to upgrade PyQT or something? |
| 06:45.04 | Gh0sty | already been thinking to scratch my whole n900 |
| 06:45.11 | Gh0sty | and start over from a new install :/ |
| 06:45.25 | Gh0sty | but reinstalling all applications ... |
| 06:45.46 | Gh0sty | restoring a backup probably drags in dirty stuff? :/ |
| 06:45.52 | DocScrutinizer | ...is a snap with backup app |
| 06:45.55 | Gh0sty | so i better export a package list? |
| 06:46.23 | Gh0sty | nono i mean scratch as in complete reflash the whole thing |
| 06:46.32 | APTX | it drags in your contacts |
| 06:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | backup app is just doing that: keeping a list of apps to re-install |
| 06:46.55 | Gh0sty | I think it got corrupted and gui settings? :p |
| 06:47.01 | Gh0sty | damn sorry |
| 06:47.07 | Gh0sty | and the gui layout ? |
| 06:47.10 | Gh0sty | is that kept? |
| 06:47.18 | APTX | yes |
| 06:47.22 | johnx | you can tell backup to keep or not keep various different things |
| 06:47.29 | DocScrutinizer | how about simply starting it and see for yourself? |
| 06:47.43 | johnx | when I backup-reflash-restore, I choose to only restore contacts, events and conversations usually |
| 06:48.11 | Gh0sty | DocScrutinizer: well I did not consider yet to reflash |
| 06:48.29 | Gh0sty | but lately it got screwed up so much ... :/ |
| 06:48.41 | DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: so what? it's not forbidden to use backup/restore any time you like |
| 06:49.07 | Gh0sty | ok :P |
| 06:49.15 | DocScrutinizer | and honestly, if a restore of a backup taken 5 minutes before would alter your system, then you really had a reason to bitch at Nokia |
| 06:49.20 | Gh0sty | you gave me confidence ... this weekend I'll reflash :) |
| 06:49.56 | Gh0sty | I'm always a bit afraid to start over ... on desktops the same ... :) |
| 06:50.03 | Gh0sty | but especially on my phone :p |
| 06:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | Gh0sty: Did I suggest to reflash?? o.O I said you should start backup app and make yourself comfortable with it |
| 06:50.18 | Gh0sty | I guess for you guys thats in a blink of an eye :p |
| 06:51.03 | Gh0sty | nono I have backups thats not the problem ... it's just I never tried a restore before either ... |
| 06:51.15 | Gh0sty | usually upgrading just resolves most issues |
| 06:51.20 | DocScrutinizer | so why don't you just do that? |
| 06:51.36 | Gh0sty | I will but for now I still want to be able to work ;p |
| 06:51.51 | DocScrutinizer | restoring to the system state of now-5min must not do any harm, no? |
| 06:52.33 | Gh0sty | no :) |
| 06:53.04 | DocScrutinizer | then you know what you're going to face when you do a restore after flashing |
| 06:53.29 | DocScrutinizer | which should make you feel much less scared |
| 06:53.30 | Gh0sty | ah so swappolube is missing the pyqt dependency ... :p |
| 06:53.34 | Gh0sty | thats the solution |
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| 06:54.52 | lolloo | http://img.techpowerup.org/101209/Capture2002.jpg |
| 06:55.00 | lolloo | guys how can i rmove the battery from there?V |
| 06:55.08 | lolloo | remove* |
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| 07:00.07 | DocScrutinizer | is wondering who's maintaining backup app. Should learn to strongly recommend to user to do a backup prior to a restore run |
| 07:02.26 | DocScrutinizer | backupA... <time goes by>... backupB-then-restoreA, <check if state A is what you expected>->(NO):backupC-then-restoreB |
| 07:03.33 | DocScrutinizer | lolloo: MohammadAG managed to do that, it's actually not that complicated. But... do you really want to do that? |
| 07:03.53 | lolloo | yes I do please |
| 07:04.04 | lolloo | I need more space for other applets |
| 07:04.29 | lolloo | I tried powatool, but it removes also the battery on top |
| 07:04.45 | DocScrutinizer | yes, there's no other way afaik |
| 07:04.50 | lolloo | I just need the one in the menu to leave |
| 07:04.53 | lolloo | oh |
| 07:04.55 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I asked if you're sure |
| 07:05.01 | lolloo | hehe |
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| 07:05.22 | lolloo | DocScrutinizer, thanks. |
| 07:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
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| 07:06.37 | DocScrutinizer | actually the menu is scrollable. Except when you try to drag the simple brightness applet volumeslider (a *BUG*! duh!) |
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| 07:07.18 | lolloo | hehe now I noticed |
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| 07:08.12 | DocScrutinizer | I have to say the notification about the fact there's some content out of view and you need to scroll, is poor. Wait ... is there *any*? |
| 07:08.55 | lolloo | I agree, but we are half way there. |
| 07:08.58 | DocScrutinizer | another flaw? or qualifies this as a veritable bug as well? |
| 07:09.27 | lolloo | no I call it little tweak |
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| 07:10.05 | lolloo | ok what about the volume bar? |
| 07:10.12 | lolloo | can it be removed? |
| 07:10.27 | DocScrutinizer | probably |
| 07:10.35 | DocScrutinizer | when you shut down PA :-P |
| 07:10.40 | lolloo | I dont think I will need it, I can use the buttons |
| 07:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | no sound -> no volume slider :-P |
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| 07:12.41 | DocScrutinizer | I seem to remember a file where sort order of those buttons in system menu is defined. Maybe it can do other things as well |
| 07:13.19 | DocScrutinizer | or was that positioning of the tiny icons in systray only? |
| 07:13.48 | lolloo | /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu/ |
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| 07:43.28 | eggonlea | DocScrutinizer: Just FYI. N900 gets back to work with the latest Maemo. Thanks again! Would try MeeGo tomorrow... |
| 07:44.07 | DocScrutinizer | thnaks |
| 07:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA |
| 07:45.47 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# gupdatedb |
| 07:45.48 | DocScrutinizer | find: unrecognized: -fstype |
| 07:45.50 | DocScrutinizer | BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) multi-call binary |
| 07:45.55 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart busybox |
| 07:45.55 | infobot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps busybox |
| 07:48.22 | DocScrutinizer | is waiting - bat in his hands - for the first one to say "you're supposed to use tracker for that, not locate" |
| 07:49.06 | *** join/#maemo kwek (~kwek@51.Red-88-22-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:49.08 | tybollt | hmm |
| 07:49.28 | tybollt | is it clear yet whether there will be a maemo 6 or not? |
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| 07:50.02 | DocScrutinizer | isn't that called meego HE? |
| 07:50.18 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, nah. I think that's something else |
| 07:50.35 | johnx | or something |
| 07:50.51 | johnx | gah, I don't even know anymore. forget I said anything |
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| 08:18.10 | pupnik | nokia, remember how some of us were saying 'build a larger internet tablet' 3-4 years ago? |
| 08:18.15 | pupnik | iPad |
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| 08:25.47 | tybollt | nokla lusers speak -> the cult of apple listens |
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| 08:27.41 | djszapi | someone with archlinux and automatical usbnetworking here ? http://pastie.org/1361250 => I would like to implement this operation in archlinux, basically. |
| 08:27.48 | trx | anyone knows if a "Y cable" actually works with n900 ? |
| 08:28.04 | DocScrutinizer | yes, it does |
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| 08:28.16 | crashanddie | trx, yes, but the N900 keeps answering "BCUZ" on the data line. |
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| 08:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | charging of N900 in hostmode not implemented in h-e-n yet |
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| 08:29.10 | trx | oh, so no use for it yet? |
| 08:29.11 | DocScrutinizer | but you can power peripherals and save N900 battery |
| 08:29.48 | trx | and if i use active hub |
| 08:30.02 | trx | will n900 conserve the energy |
| 08:30.08 | trx | or send it anyways? |
| 08:30.11 | DocScrutinizer | actually if you don't hit the [VBUS] button in h-e-n GUI and instead apply external power at that moment, it should also wok |
| 08:30.15 | DocScrutinizer | work |
| 08:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | charging still is disabled |
| 08:31.36 | tybollt | ~h-e-n |
| 08:31.46 | tybollt | ~thwap |
| 08:31.46 | infobot | i heard thwap is /me thwaps $1 |
| 08:32.01 | DocScrutinizer | as h-e-n has to stop bme, and so the N900 will run off battery |
| 08:32.13 | trx | yeah |
| 08:32.26 | DocScrutinizer | this will change this year |
| 08:32.45 | trx | looking forward to it :) |
| 08:32.50 | DocScrutinizer | so, a Y-cable is a good idea anyway |
| 08:33.47 | Arkenoi | where can i get one? |
| 08:34.06 | DocScrutinizer | most external drives come with a Y-cable |
| 08:34.57 | Arkenoi | http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/hostmode.jpg it is the thing i use now, costs about $3 |
| 08:35.38 | DocScrutinizer | OUCH! the poor usb receptacle |
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| 08:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | seems you still have warranty :-P |
| 08:36.59 | Arkenoi | til April, my fitst n900 was stolen so i bought new one this spring :-) |
| 08:37.52 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I wonder if they will replace it when you rip off the receptacle like that |
| 08:38.01 | trx | im waiting for the same thing to arrive |
| 08:38.08 | trx | but use cable instead |
| 08:38.24 | trx | (dont want to rip the port out :) ) |
| 08:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 08:38.36 | trx | let me show you what i use now :D |
| 08:38.38 | trx | sec |
| 08:40.42 | RST38h | EHLO all |
| 08:40.45 | RST38h | Hey Arkenoi |
| 08:40.47 | Arkenoi | this thingie is tiny, though, so i may carry it with me just always |
| 08:40.54 | DocScrutinizer | trx: you also can try if bme behaves when on hostmode with external VBUS. Just do a `start bme` and see if hostmode stays while charging kicks in. You might see strange effects though |
| 08:41.16 | Arkenoi | anything bigger like cable will prbably stay at home most of the time |
| 08:41.30 | Arkenoi | rst38h |
| 08:41.53 | DocScrutinizer | waves and heads out for breakfast |
| 08:43.48 | trx | DocScrutinizer ill try that, good idea |
| 08:44.06 | trx | look at my adapter :D |
| 08:44.07 | trx | http://yfrog.com/jm20101209001xj |
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| 08:49.12 | pupnik | well http://paypal.com is now down |
| 08:49.36 | dolp | :D |
| 08:49.52 | crashanddie | note: I made a paypal payment 8 minutes ago with no issues |
| 08:50.06 | tybollt | pupnik: the wikileaks-emo-bunch that is killing them? |
| 08:50.26 | pupnik | i suspected this might happen yes |
| 08:50.47 | tybollt | <-- from .se, and not really proud of the .se DOJ :-| |
| 08:51.01 | MohammadAG | lolloo, no, you don't want to do it |
| 08:51.10 | pupnik | well .se has plenty of great free-speech advocates |
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| 08:51.28 | MohammadAG | the applet is needed for "Charging" "Battery low" etc notifications |
| 08:51.43 | MohammadAG | anyways |
| 08:51.45 | MohammadAG | /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu or sth |
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| 08:52.26 | MohammadAG | mv the .desktop file |
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| 08:54.24 | RST38h | OMG they took out paypal :) |
| 08:58.21 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:58.46 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Presumably there's a Qt interface to Tracker. Harmattan must be using it, for example ;-) |
| 09:00.38 | tybollt | what does harmattan mean these days, maemo 6 or meego? |
| 09:01.25 | ieatlint | yes |
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| 09:01.45 | ieatlint | "hybrid edition" is i believe what they're calling it |
| 09:02.17 | ieatlint | harmattan isn't meego, isn't maemo... but somewhere in between |
| 09:02.41 | ieatlint | (and rumour has it will be what's featured on the n9) |
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| 09:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: why should there be a Qt interface? Tracker has a dbus interface |
| 09:09.16 | RST38h | Doc: To be able to stop tracker by pressing the large red button |
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| 09:09.42 | RST38h | Labelled "Die. Die! DIE already!" |
| 09:09.49 | tybollt | RST38h: 'manager mode'? ;) |
| 09:10.42 | RST38h | considers removing AllAboutSymbian from his RSS feed. The site has become really desperate lately. |
| 09:11.45 | pupnik | lol |
| 09:12.34 | tybollt | RST38h: how so? |
| 09:12.54 | RST38h | *literally*. |
| 09:13.02 | tybollt | :) |
| 09:13.23 | tybollt | michal running yet another one of those "buy your apps here bla bla discount" campaigns? : |
| 09:13.26 | tybollt | :) |
| 09:13.40 | tybollt | ehr wait that's my-symbian |
| 09:13.57 | tybollt | heads for another cup of coffee |
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| 09:18.54 | lardman | hmm, TMO is a horrible bitchy snipey place these days... |
| 09:19.18 | lardman | moring all :) |
| 09:19.25 | lardman | hmm, spelling gone already |
| 09:19.35 | trx | 'ornin |
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| 09:19.56 | trx | mornin' * |
| 09:19.57 | trx | lol |
| 09:20.02 | lardman | :) |
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| 09:20.26 | RST38h | Moo, lardman |
| 09:20.33 | lardman | hey RST38h |
| 09:21.44 | pupnik | moo |
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| 09:25.30 | lardman | hmm, is BlessN900 not open source? |
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| 09:27.05 | pupnik | dunno |
| 09:27.17 | lardman | how're you pupnik? |
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| 09:28.11 | jacekowski | lardman: fcamera can do more |
| 09:28.23 | lardman | jacekowski: yeah just looking at that |
| 09:28.32 | lardman | wondering if it could support arbitrary plugins |
| 09:28.51 | lardman | Google Goggles style stuff |
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| 09:30.50 | chem|st | lardman: fcamera is hardware api first and imagemanipulaiton second... the programs are proof of concept and quiet good, have a closer look and see yourself |
| 09:31.40 | chem|st | lardman: nokias ovi panorama is one of it afaik |
| 09:31.55 | lardman | oh right, is that an Ovi store app? |
| 09:32.22 | lardman | HAM couldn't find it when I tried yesterday |
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| 09:34.06 | lardman | I didn't spot a way of saving to jpeg in FCamera, is there one? |
| 09:34.29 | ieatlint | yes |
| 09:34.42 | ieatlint | swipe your finger vertically down the screen and there'll be a config screen |
| 09:34.50 | lardman | ah :) |
| 09:34.53 | ieatlint | one of the options is save to jpeg.. |
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| 09:35.28 | lardman | cool, thanks |
| 09:35.39 | lardman | This was a Nokia research project wasn't it? |
| 09:35.59 | lardman | i wonder why FCam::saveJPEG() doesn't use the DSP as the normal camera app does....? |
| 09:36.33 | ieatlint | yeah, out of NRC and with help from standford students |
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| 09:37.04 | ieatlint | look at hdrcapture too... also by them... pretty cool |
| 09:37.25 | lardman | FCamera does hdr, is hdrcapture better then? |
| 09:37.47 | ieatlint | hdrcapture automates the process |
| 09:38.02 | ieatlint | it decides how many photos to take based on brightness, and merges them |
| 09:38.30 | lardman | ok |
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| 09:46.13 | lardman | hmm, time to look at jpegenc_sn.dll64P I guess |
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| 09:47.05 | Venemo_N900 | hi |
| 09:48.18 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@62.134.185.245) |
| 09:48.28 | lardman | hi Venemo_N900 |
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| 09:52.20 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: watch their website, I don't think blessn900 is meant to be FOSS |
| 09:52.34 | chem|st | lardman: ieatlint guess it was the other way round, stanford people with support from nokia, I doubt that nokia has a high interest in such stuff if they would need to put much work/manpower in it |
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| 09:53.24 | lardman | docscrutinizer: yeah I'd assumed as much |
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| 09:53.47 | lardman | chem|st: righty-ho |
| 09:54.20 | ieatlint | chem|st: dunno, all i can say is that i went to NRC a couple weeks ago and saw a nokia employee give a talk about it with two standford students assisting |
| 09:54.46 | Venemo_N900 | ieatlint: a talk about what? |
| 09:54.51 | ieatlint | fcamera |
| 09:54.59 | ieatlint | and hdrcapture |
| 09:55.49 | chem|st | ieatlint: my boss gets slides from me on topics he never worked on just to have him give the talk as representative... |
| 09:56.03 | ieatlint | rather sure that wasn't the case here :P |
| 09:56.18 | Venemo_N900 | ieatlint: interesting |
| 09:56.20 | ieatlint | he was answering very technical questions with a clear understanding of it |
| 09:56.38 | lardman | obviously the students explained it to him very well ;) |
| 09:56.47 | chem|st | ieatlint: same goes for projectmanagers |
| 09:56.50 | ieatlint | i got the impression he was a project lead that ran a team of students |
| 09:56.56 | ieatlint | yeah :P |
| 09:57.17 | chem|st | ieatlint: wasn't it diploma or master thesis? |
| 09:57.34 | ieatlint | dunno, that wasn't really discussed |
| 09:57.43 | ieatlint | might be able to find the slides... let me see |
| 09:57.50 | chem|st | ieatlint: thought they might have mentioned |
| 09:58.04 | chem|st | ieatlint: doesn't really matter does it |
| 09:58.20 | ieatlint | eh... satisfies curiosity perhaps |
| 09:59.13 | chem|st | ieatlint: at erandum... |
| 09:59.23 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-ddnmrooaoxjyemop) |
| 09:59.32 | ieatlint | found the guy who gave the talk.. kari pulli |
| 09:59.37 | ieatlint | http://research.nokia.com/people/kari_pulli/ |
| 10:00.33 | lardman | hmm, how can I download Panorama? |
| 10:00.38 | chem|st | ah ok maybe it is a coop project then |
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| 10:00.45 | RST38h | http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/09/deborah-orr-julian-assange-wikileaks <=== Deborah Orr isn't getting it |
| 10:00.55 | chem|st | lardman: store.ovi.com |
| 10:01.03 | lardman | on PC? |
| 10:01.12 | lardman | doesn't work on-device |
| 10:01.27 | ieatlint | hah, no slides posted, but this link is http://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/camera-2.0/ |
| 10:01.33 | ieatlint | so that kinda clues in a bit, hehe |
| 10:01.36 | chem|st | lardman: ? store does not work on device? |
| 10:02.02 | lardman | no, says it's not available for my device |
| 10:03.09 | chem|st | ieatlint: that page was the funding of my thoughts on it was stanford and nokia got interessted |
| 10:03.57 | chem|st | lardman: manipulated browser ID? |
| 10:04.03 | lardman | no |
| 10:04.17 | ieatlint | chem|st: looks like you're right then |
| 10:04.29 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@82.132.139.248) |
| 10:04.39 | ieatlint | i have a feeling nokia facilitated it all though, including handing out a few devices |
| 10:05.05 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I meant a Qt-based abstraction of Tracker's DBus iface; but you're right - could go straight to DBus |
| 10:05.18 | chem|st | lardman: http://store.ovi.com/content/51491?clickSource=homepage that page? |
| 10:05.52 | *** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@af83-2.dd.bearstech.net) |
| 10:06.19 | lardman | can't get it, I get redirected back to the incompatible page |
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| 10:07.30 | chem|st | ieatlint: you were close though, was close to believe you... |
| 10:07.48 | chem|st | lardman: you are logged in? |
| 10:07.59 | ieatlint | hah, people who know me know better than to believe me |
| 10:08.23 | lardman | chem|st: how? I can't get any Ovi page to display on my N900 |
| 10:08.28 | chem|st | lardman: apt-get install panorama? (dont know if thats the package name... want me to look it up?) |
| 10:08.44 | chem|st | lardman: WHAT? |
| 10:09.08 | chem|st | lardman: do you use microB? |
| 10:09.11 | lardman | apt-get install panorama is correct, but I get something like "handler sliently failed" |
| 10:09.16 | lardman | ye, microb |
| 10:10.01 | lardman | seems Ovi doesn't like my device |
| 10:10.18 | *** join/#maemo Kegetys (kegetys@a91-154-251-20.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:10.29 | chem|st | lardman: I was able to load any ovi.com page I came along yet as long as my browser ID wasn't customized |
| 10:10.38 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@192.100.124.156) |
| 10:10.49 | chem|st | please go dostortugas.org |
| 10:11.08 | chem|st | lardman: on the top line there is your browser output shown |
| 10:11.17 | *** part/#maemo mardi (~mardi@82.132.139.248) |
| 10:11.30 | lardman | Maemo browser |
| 10:11.35 | chem|st | weirtd |
| 10:11.38 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@89.142.18.75) |
| 10:12.11 | chem|st | try via pc, login, send to device |
| 10:13.39 | lardman | how does that work? |
| 10:13.41 | lardman | how does it send it? |
| 10:13.59 | chem|st | lardman: I guess sms idnk |
| 10:14.10 | chem|st | just a link |
| 10:14.22 | lardman | I can't see it working |
| 10:14.35 | chem|st | why you arent able to bbrowse ovi is weirtd enough |
| 10:14.35 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (~berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 10:14.59 | lardman | sms sent, just waiting now |
| 10:15.11 | chem|st | copy/paste the browserline from your website pls the |
| 10:15.27 | lardman | the failed one on the N900? |
| 10:15.29 | chem|st | from the website I just gave you |
| 10:15.37 | chem|st | sry typo |
| 10:15.58 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar_ (~bigbrovar@83.229.6.19) |
| 10:16.06 | lardman | It had my IP, then Maemo Browser |
| 10:16.25 | chem|st | copy paste pls |
| 10:16.39 | chem|st | without ip |
| 10:16.52 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 10:16.59 | lardman | I can't, I have to type it, as XChat is running on my PC |
| 10:21.53 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 10:24.21 | *** join/#maemo Carneque (~IRC.duder@ip66-110-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 10:24.33 | Carneque | wireshark available, where are repositories for that? |
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| 10:29.06 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@41.68.20.32) |
| 10:29.12 | chem|st | Carneque: yes and idk is it extras-testing?! |
| 10:29.48 | jacktheripper | the n900 only supports H.264 _BASELINE_ ?! |
| 10:29.58 | chem|st | use maemo.org and enter wireshark in the search (top right) |
| 10:30.11 | Jaffa | BTW, anyone know of any tools to open a PPTX with a password where you've forgotten the password in question? |
| 10:30.30 | Carneque | chem I did that |
| 10:30.48 | chem|st | Carneque: one sec |
| 10:31.01 | Carneque | I did that in the downloads section, my bad |
| 10:31.16 | chem|st | Jaffa: as you can rule any microsoft product you may do that also but I have no clue |
| 10:31.51 | chem|st | Carneque: http://maemo.org/packages/view/wireshark/ |
| 10:31.57 | chem|st | it is in devel |
| 10:32.33 | Carneque | If I add fremantle extras-devel free i386 to my repositories can I add it through app manager? |
| 10:32.35 | chem|st | Jaffa: just to give you hope! |
| 10:32.49 | chem|st | Carneque: i386? |
| 10:32.53 | *** join/#maemo balzus (89de6630@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.222.102.48) |
| 10:32.54 | chem|st | nope |
| 10:32.57 | balzus | hi all |
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| 10:33.07 | Carneque | that's just the name of the repository on the download section |
| 10:33.08 | chem|st | Carneque: look at your extras entry |
| 10:33.28 | chem|st | Carneque: armel is n900 architecture not i386 |
| 10:33.35 | Carneque | ahhh |
| 10:33.37 | Carneque | thanks |
| 10:33.40 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:33.52 | Carneque | one last question, where is the sources list? |
| 10:34.17 | chem|st | Carneque: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/wireshark/1.2.6-0maemo1/ |
| 10:34.41 | chem|st | ~repositories |
| 10:34.41 | infobot | repositories are frequently old. |
| 10:34.46 | chem|st | ~repository |
| 10:34.53 | chem|st | ~devel |
| 10:35.13 | *** join/#maemo schasch (~bucket@p578b7dd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:35.18 | Carneque | have you seen that Seinfeild where Kramer is playing movie phone? |
| 10:35.29 | Carneque | Why don't you just tell me what movie you'd like to see? |
| 10:35.44 | Carneque | :) |
| 10:36.27 | chem|st | Carneque: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel on the bottom is how to activate it, pls do yourself a favour!!! do not install anything else while the repo is active and deactivate it afterwards |
| 10:36.50 | balzus | I have a project to compile that has a configure.in file |
| 10:37.04 | balzus | I get this error:blablabla/cstdlib ::malloc has not been declared |
| 10:37.06 | chem|st | hi balzus |
| 10:37.17 | balzus | hi chem|st |
| 10:37.20 | balzus | my cstdlib is in another folder, do you know how can I inform the compiler that the library is in another folder |
| 10:37.58 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 10:38.14 | Carneque | memory allocation problem? |
| 10:38.24 | Carneque | nm, I know little |
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| 10:41.02 | schasch | Hi...can I do a "power-button"-press by software (C-code /or/ dbus-call /or/ Qt)? |
| 10:42.52 | chem|st | schasch: idk but look yourself, start dbus-monitor and have a look what happens, the other way.. it is a hardware button but as I dont knwo anything about the envy management of mamo5 idk if there is a simple "send event" |
| 10:43.06 | *** join/#maemo arno0ob__ (~arno0ob@af83-2.dd.bearstech.net) |
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| 10:47.01 | schasch | chem|st: cool...your idea helped....http://paste.debian.net/101960/ |
| 10:47.27 | schasch | chem|st : hmmm...now I have to make a dbus-call with it |
| 10:47.55 | chem|st | schasch: no time for that now... just helped lardman and gtg soon... |
| 10:48.58 | schasch | chem|st: OK...thanks ..I didn't know the monitor till now... :-) |
| 10:50.22 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 10:52.16 | *** join/#maemo jase21 (b648d472@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.72.212.114) |
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| 10:55.12 | ieatlint | wow, that panorama app is awesome |
| 10:55.28 | ieatlint | need to play with it tomorrow... |
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| 10:55.47 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 10:57.26 | MohammadAG | so |
| 10:59.03 | jase21 | Can pymaemo control the changing the profile (silent <-> general) in N900? |
| 10:59.46 | alterego | You can do it through dbus so yeah |
| 10:59.55 | jase21 | I saw some script (dbus script) in the fcron wiki. But I would like it to be done using python without using fcron. |
| 11:00.04 | jase21 | Is that possible? |
| 11:00.49 | lardman | yes, just implement dbus command in your Python script |
| 11:01.16 | jase21 | But how about tracking time? |
| 11:01.20 | jase21 | I want to change the profile at 9 to silent and at 6 back to general without using fcron. |
| 11:01.33 | jase21 | So does that need fcron? |
| 11:01.54 | jase21 | (I'm a python newbie) |
| 11:02.05 | lardman | not necessarily, but if you don't use cron then you'll have to have your python script running all the time waiting for the time to change |
| 11:02.22 | jase21 | oh. |
| 11:03.00 | jase21 | The problem is suppose I want to distribute the script. The the target device should also have fcron preinstalled for my script to work, right? |
| 11:03.15 | lardman | yes |
| 11:03.31 | lardman | you create a package for your script and one of the dependencies will be fcrond |
| 11:04.07 | lardman | s/fcrond/fcron |
| 11:04.34 | jase21 | umm.. so where will the package manager get the fcron from? Its not in extras as well as extras-devel |
| 11:04.45 | jase21 | Its in some ruskies repo. |
| 11:04.50 | lardman | oh I see |
| 11:05.07 | lardman | Ask him to push it to extras-* |
| 11:05.17 | jase21 | Heh. |
| 11:05.19 | ruskie | won't happen ;) |
| 11:05.28 | lardman | Otherwise it will still work - the use will have to just manually install that package for your package to install |
| 11:05.31 | jase21 | ruskie: Why? |
| 11:05.33 | lardman | diy? |
| 11:05.56 | jase21 | lardman: I wanted to make it simple enough. |
| 11:06.03 | jase21 | Click - install - work |
| 11:06.09 | ruskie | because I dislike those repos and policies around them |
| 11:06.17 | lardman | hmm |
| 11:06.32 | lardman | I can't help there then, but it would make life easier for jase21 |
| 11:06.53 | ruskie | can always query the user to add my repo... install fcron and then remove it |
| 11:06.58 | jase21 | lardernan: Is there buit in mechanism in maemo 5 similar to fcron? |
| 11:07.27 | jase21 | ruskie: okay. I'll resort to fcron as the last resort. |
| 11:07.28 | lardman | no idea, ask ruskie |
| 11:07.37 | ruskie | there's some alarm api thing |
| 11:07.40 | ruskie | that could allow for this |
| 11:07.54 | ruskie | I think there's even an alarmd somewhere in extras |
| 11:08.30 | jase21 | ruskie: okay. Can I have it called from python (pymaemo)? Uhh.. alarmd is buggy. |
| 11:08.38 | lardman | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Alarm_Framework |
| 11:09.11 | lardman | ruskie: is fcron standard? |
| 11:09.20 | lardman | i.e. unpatched |
| 11:09.21 | ruskie | it's standard as far as cron |
| 11:09.23 | ruskie | yup |
| 11:09.25 | jase21 | is checking that link. |
| 11:09.26 | ruskie | I don't patch things |
| 11:09.59 | lardman | in which case, assuming you're happy with it, I'd just get jase21 to build from your package to upload to extras-devel |
| 11:10.13 | lardman | assuming you don't want anything to do with extras |
| 11:11.05 | jase21 | lardman: You want me to upload fcron to extras-devel? Why can't ruskie do it? |
| 11:11.16 | lardman | jase21: he doesn't want to |
| 11:11.33 | lardman | jase21: but I don't want you to, it would just make your life easier |
| 11:11.48 | jase21 | lardman: So that means I would have to maintain fcron? |
| 11:11.57 | lardman | yes |
| 11:12.04 | jase21 | lardman: oh, damn. |
| 11:12.06 | lardman | not a big problem |
| 11:12.08 | jase21 | :D |
| 11:12.17 | lardman | anyway talk to ruskie |
| 11:12.27 | jase21 | lardman: hah. okay. |
| 11:12.30 | DocScrutinizer | jase21: alarmd, alramed |
| 11:12.52 | ruskie | it was just a repackage of the debian package |
| 11:13.41 | jase21 | DocScrutinizer: I'm looking into the alram framework |
| 11:14.23 | lardman | What ever happened to Shepherd? |
| 11:14.38 | jase21 | I have another doubt. If I need to automate the change of profile, the say I installed fcron, then fcron will be running all the time in the bg, right? |
| 11:14.42 | lardman | cron for time, and location |
| 11:14.53 | lardman | jase21: yes |
| 11:15.20 | DocScrutinizer | use alarmed |
| 11:15.35 | jase21 | lardman: So how does fcron work? Does it poll the OS to get the time or .. ? |
| 11:15.44 | ruskie | jase21, it sleeps |
| 11:15.45 | DocScrutinizer | use alarmed |
| 11:15.49 | jase21 | DocScrutinizer: Okay |
| 11:16.12 | ruskie | it takes no noticable resources |
| 11:16.18 | ruskie | I use it to change profiles and other things |
| 11:16.25 | Choom | jase21: man 2 alarm |
| 11:16.35 | jase21 | ruskie: okay, but how does it know its 9 am if it is sleeping? |
| 11:17.06 | jase21 | Does the OS wake it up ? |
| 11:17.09 | Choom | the kernel can schedule events |
| 11:17.11 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@81.18.92.10) |
| 11:17.13 | Choom | yes |
| 11:17.26 | ruskie | it knows the time it's being setup/started |
| 11:17.42 | ruskie | then it just says I need to start in nnnnnnn seconds |
| 11:17.53 | DocScrutinizer | afaik fcron isn't using alarmd. Alarmed though is using alarmd. |
| 11:17.55 | DocScrutinizer | use alarmed |
| 11:18.14 | Choom | and if you're wondering how the kernel itself knows, it can program the microcontroller's PIT which is basically a hardware-based alarm clock that's usually used to cause task switching to schedule an event for later |
| 11:18.57 | jase21 | DocScrutinizer: No I wanted to make my own alarmed (like) utility. |
| 11:18.59 | DocScrutinizer | alarmd will handle RTC wakeups as well |
| 11:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 11:19.25 | ruskie | lol |
| 11:19.31 | jase21 | DocScrutinizer: heh, for learning actually. |
| 11:19.33 | alterego | jase21: why? |
| 11:19.38 | alterego | :/ |
| 11:19.49 | alterego | boring :P |
| 11:19.55 | jase21 | alterego: No. Why? |
| 11:20.02 | ruskie | I love it when people try doing stuff on their own(and no not being sarcastic) |
| 11:20.17 | ruskie | I actually don't see a problem with people reinventing the wheel and so on |
| 11:20.41 | lardman | though it's a shame if people have to spend time learning something that is not their goal |
| 11:20.41 | Choom | same |
| 11:20.43 | jase21 | ruskie: yes. Its not reinventing wheel. |
| 11:20.46 | lardman | that's perhaps not the case here though |
| 11:20.53 | Choom | rather see people questioning stuff that just taking everything for granted |
| 11:21.00 | alterego | jase21: well it is :P |
| 11:21.22 | Choom | the question about how alarm() works is a good demonstration that jase21 wants to understand how things really work |
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| 11:22.17 | DocScrutinizer | well, implementing a new app without even knowing about existing stuff is a tremendous waste of time and energy |
| 11:22.22 | jase21 | What I want is automate the changing of profile to silent when I'm at work and back to normal when I'm out of work. Also its a simple one to get started to digg some maemo related code, instead of using a pre-made one |
| 11:22.51 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: it's not a waste of time if you're learning and extracting entertainment out of it, at least that's how I see it |
| 11:22.51 | DocScrutinizer | use alarmed |
| 11:22.52 | jase21 | Is that a weired idea? |
| 11:23.10 | lardman | jase21: no |
| 11:23.20 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: isnt there already something at least wip? |
| 11:23.24 | jase21 | lardman: okay. |
| 11:23.34 | lardman | what would be better, would be to write a cron-type app that handles both times and locations ;) |
| 11:23.39 | *** join/#maemo pablo2 (~pablo@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:23.57 | jase21 | lardman: what do you mean by locations? |
| 11:24.15 | ruskie | using the gps |
| 11:24.19 | chem|st | jase21: lardman: use something that already knows about time and day, so you do not add threats |
| 11:24.21 | ruskie | I thought there was already a location based thingy |
| 11:24.24 | lardman | in the same way that cron triggers jobs depending on the time, this would trigger jobs depending on the location |
| 11:24.26 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@81.18.92.10) |
| 11:24.49 | lardman | ruskie: not that I know of, I know Sheperd was going to be something like this |
| 11:25.09 | DocScrutinizer | shrugs |
| 11:25.18 | jase21 | oh nice one. For that I need to have exact gps positions mapped. But in this part of the world gps isn't that accurate like in US. |
| 11:25.23 | DocScrutinizer | weird folks |
| 11:25.36 | jase21 | hah :D |
| 11:25.39 | lardman | jase21: you need to differentiate between gps accuracy and map accuracy |
| 11:25.46 | alterego | Heh |
| 11:25.50 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 11:26.03 | jase21 | umm.. didn't get it. |
| 11:26.07 | chem|st | was about 30km off lately and do not know why... |
| 11:26.13 | lardman | you could record your home and work locations, and use them directly rather than needing a map lookup, etc |
| 11:26.28 | jase21 | lardman: oh' okay. |
| 11:26.39 | lardman | chem|st: was that because you didn't have a gps fix? |
| 11:27.23 | lardman | and were using base station triangulation? |
| 11:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | nobody is using BTS triangulation |
| 11:27.48 | chem|st | lardman: I have gps and network location on and my position was just fine, but the route to Lon|Lat would have send me somewhere in the woods 30km of track |
| 11:27.57 | DocScrutinizer | except me |
| 11:28.05 | chem|st | lardman: so had nothing to do with my location but with the maps |
| 11:28.18 | lardman | docscrutinizer: how does the coarse accuracy method work then? |
| 11:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | not even police *can* use BTD triangulation |
| 11:28.31 | jase21 | Is there a pymaemo reference to alarmd? My C foo is weak. |
| 11:28.53 | DocScrutinizer | it's a mere circle shaped area around your servicing BTS |
| 11:28.55 | lardman | chem|st: ok, so a map error again |
| 11:29.12 | chem|st | lardman: yes |
| 11:29.20 | lardman | docscrutinizer: ah fair enough, I gave them more credit |
| 11:29.33 | jase21 | ? |
| 11:29.34 | DocScrutinizer | coarse accuracy as in maemo even uses center of country if you got bad luck |
| 11:29.46 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that's not precise |
| 11:29.53 | chem|st | lardman: and the network positioning works like "ah you see these 4 cell towers so you must be somewhere around $this position" |
| 11:29.56 | jase21 | Any python experts here? |
| 11:30.02 | *** join/#maemo xim_ (~barrett@68-191-217-67.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com) |
| 11:30.16 | lardman | jase21: not an expert, but what do you want? |
| 11:30.32 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: rapuyama queries agps server with network mnc+mcc+cell id |
| 11:30.34 | jase21 | lardman: alarmd reference for pymaemo |
| 11:30.36 | lardman | chem|st: well that's reasonably close to triangulation ;) |
| 11:30.46 | lardman | jase21: no idea, google! |
| 11:30.51 | jase21 | hah. |
| 11:31.00 | jase21 | okay, I'm googling |
| 11:31.09 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: only if you're connected to the nets |
| 11:31.21 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: so there is support for coarse accuracy usign data from bts |
| 11:31.31 | jacekowski | but it's like 20km accurate |
| 11:31.42 | DocScrutinizer | or like 2km |
| 11:31.42 | jacekowski | because i believe it's using single bts for it |
| 11:31.46 | chem|st | lardman: gets weird when celltower ids get randomized by replacing a tower with another one about 600km away in another city... when I use umts network my first location is 600km away from my actual position and I wont get a gps fix as most of the satelites on sight arent the ones expected |
| 11:32.09 | lardman | :) |
| 11:32.18 | jase21 | Is it better to use C than Python? Seems like its sort of difficult to get hold on api docs for python than for C. |
| 11:32.23 | lardman | so what is this tower "triangulation" service you use? |
| 11:32.38 | lardman | jase21: they may not exist |
| 11:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: it doesn't work like this, usually |
| 11:32.48 | lardman | in which case you need to generate the bindings yourself |
| 11:32.54 | chem|st | lardman: reasonable close to triangulation would be some kind of function calculating a coarse position but afaik it is just guessing your psoition |
| 11:33.08 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: also each cellid is unique |
| 11:33.15 | jase21 | lardman: okay. I'll try using C. Hmm.. |
| 11:33.19 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: within mnc+mcc |
| 11:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | for that ncc |
| 11:33.25 | lardman | sure, but what is the service you use that has a db of celltowerid vs lat/lon? |
| 11:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | err mnc |
| 11:33.53 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: I know, and was really curious about an explanation why umts shows somewhere 600km north-east and gsm just fine?! |
| 11:34.32 | DocScrutinizer | bug in database |
| 11:34.43 | chem|st | lardman: any maps program using the location api has that |
| 11:35.09 | lardman | really? I thought they worked from direct lat/lon or IP lookups |
| 11:35.41 | *** join/#maemo blackthorne (~blackthor@bl14-223-250.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 11:36.03 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: also there are no comprehensive official such databases for lat/lon of cellid |
| 11:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | check openbmap project |
| 11:36.48 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen onen|openbmap |
| 11:36.54 | infobot | onen|openbmap <~quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.club-internet.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 70d 17h 7m 49s ago, saying: 'got to go. bbl'. |
| 11:37.06 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: yeah but the networkpositioning service is something like that... |
| 11:37.24 | DocScrutinizer | ??? |
| 11:37.36 | lardman | that uses IP locations |
| 11:37.38 | DocScrutinizer | which networkpositioningservice? |
| 11:37.52 | chem|st | ok where did I miss the part about IP? |
| 11:39.26 | chem|st | isnt n900 networkpositioning service that you request satelite cache from server for known cellIDs? |
| 11:39.45 | lardman | ah, SUPL |
| 11:40.03 | chem|st | and get also your guessed position based on cellIDs sent? |
| 11:40.16 | lardman | but only to bootstrap the GPS chipset |
| 11:40.23 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 11:40.34 | DocScrutinizer | you're all talking gibberish to me |
| 11:40.36 | lardman | so you actually get almanac/ephemeris data sent for your approx location |
| 11:41.08 | chem|st | lardman: actualy no, I can use that service completely without GPS |
| 11:41.24 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: for this (called assisted GPS, AGPS) you need an estimation to size of a medium sized country |
| 11:41.27 | DocScrutinizer | not better |
| 11:41.28 | lardman | yep, but do you get a lat/lon sent back? |
| 11:41.46 | lardman | docscrutinizer: well 100miles or so |
| 11:41.54 | chem|st | google-maps for java phones for example can guide you pretty good without any gps |
| 11:42.21 | *** join/#maemo schend (~suresh@nat/nokia/x-ltwixyfeutnyynwv) |
| 11:43.07 | DocScrutinizer | sure, they h ad those streetview cars recording every WLAN and the data that it transmitted |
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| 11:43.27 | Choom | agps is pretty accurate where I live, but not accurate enough to replace the GPS, it's usually a few blocks around of where I am, good enough to use inside buildings, terrible as a GPS replacement |
| 11:43.49 | DocScrutinizer | W*T*F AGPS *IS* GPS |
| 11:43.49 | lardman | Choom: you mean the SUPL data? |
| 11:43.51 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: my w880i has no wifi, and the gps mouse is not supported by most programs it is able to run |
| 11:43.57 | DocScrutinizer | it can NOT replace GPS |
| 11:44.00 | Choom | lardman: yes |
| 11:44.06 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: I do not talk about agps |
| 11:44.10 | lardman | so how do you access that data? |
| 11:44.19 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: not technically |
| 11:44.24 | DocScrutinizer | aha |
| 11:44.26 | lardman | by talking to the SUPL server directly? |
| 11:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: educate me |
| 11:44.46 | chem|st | Choom: me too pls |
| 11:44.50 | lardman | because coarse accuracy in liblocation asks the basestation to provide a location |
| 11:45.12 | Choom | well, cell phone antennas aren't exactly GPS satellites |
| 11:45.12 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: nobody ever asks any BTS for any location |
| 11:45.29 | lardman | docscrutinizer: how does coarse accuracy work then? |
| 11:45.48 | Choom | and thus you can't call that GPS |
| 11:45.48 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-170-37.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 11:45.50 | DocScrutinizer | and BTS never provides location (except O2 in germany on CBC221) |
| 11:45.59 | Choom | it Assists your GPS, it is by no means a GPS in itself |
| 11:46.14 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: BS |
| 11:46.40 | DocScrutinizer | AGPS == Assisted Geo Positioning System |
| 11:46.45 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 11:46.55 | DocScrutinizer | A without GPS doesn't make any sense |
| 11:47.10 | lardman | docscrutinizer: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/liblocation/LocationGPSDControl.html#LOCATION-METHOD-ACWP:CAPS - how does this work if not by querying the location of the basestation? |
| 11:47.39 | chem|st | Choom: by definition AGPS is GPS with network supported almanac downlaod |
| 11:48.00 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: that doesn-t make it a GPS now, dows it |
| 11:48.21 | DocScrutinizer | it is maybe querying the location of the BTS of the given CID. But it doesn't query the BTS about that, cause the BTS won't answer |
| 11:48.40 | lardman | what? |
| 11:48.40 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: google is your friend. wikipedia even more |
| 11:49.11 | Choom | DocScrutinizer: I'm using rhetoric |
| 11:49.12 | lardman | the data is routed via the basestation, without requiring an internet connection |
| 11:49.23 | chem|st | lardman: it does not talk to the tower asking it what location it is in, it needs a server to ask about the CID |
| 11:49.56 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: citation needed |
| 11:50.17 | lardman | docscrutinizer: I'll dig one out, was from talking to the liblocation folks in Berlin |
| 11:50.20 | chem|st | lardman: ehrm I thought it needs internet at it has to ask a server for info... |
| 11:50.23 | lardman | Amsterdam perhaps |
| 11:50.54 | lardman | that's only for the AGNSS method |
| 11:51.04 | lardman | i.e. needs an internet connection |
| 11:51.53 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: what now? needs, or needs NOT? |
| 11:52.37 | lardman | afaiu ACWP does not need an internet connection, but does need a connection to the network |
| 11:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | ublox AGPS (the gps used in OM FR) is via a server hosted by ublox, or a proxy hosted by you. All are via internet |
| 11:53.00 | lardman | yes, that is SUPL |
| 11:53.19 | lardman | i.e. that is a SUPL server it talks to |
| 11:53.33 | lardman | this method is called AGNSS in liblocation |
| 11:53.55 | chem|st | and CWP does not need a connection at all?! |
| 11:54.24 | lardman | well the country code is transmitted when it connects to the netwok afaiu |
| 11:54.44 | DocScrutinizer | I might accept the possibility GSM specs seen an supplement to enable AGPS in dumb phones (the USA shit), that is somehow implemented in GSN without need for a internet connection |
| 11:56.26 | DocScrutinizer | given the fact the GPS is connected to rapuyama and can be activated without support from application processor system, makes that even more likely |
| 11:58.22 | chem|st | lardman: ok just tested, CWP does nothing if no cache is available for the CIDs around, after once used ACWP CWP knows the position, what now would be to test is what happens when I drive outside the known area |
| 11:58.26 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, I can positively tell the BTS has no really good notion about where the MT is located. And triangulation needs highly precise timing sync between neighbour BTS that's simply not implemented anywhere |
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| 11:58.47 | chem|st | lardman: and yes ACWP returns lat/lon |
| 11:58.52 | macmaN | whatsup allz |
| 11:58.54 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 11:58.59 | macmaN | how to debug when maemo emulator says no initfs on startup |
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| 11:59.14 | lardman | chem|st: of course, I was talking about whether the SUPL server returned lat/lon before |
| 11:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | so best you can obtain from GSM is usually a circle of arbitrary diameter where in you are located, with BTS in center |
| 11:59.26 | lardman | yep |
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| 11:59.35 | DocScrutinizer | or a segment thereof (for directional antennae) |
| 11:59.43 | chem|st | lardman: so yes supl returns lat/lon |
| 11:59.54 | lardman | no, supl is not acwp |
| 11:59.55 | macmaN | mad-admin list says i have qemu-n900-pr13 as default |
| 12:00.17 | lardman | supl is the protocol used to return agps assistance data |
| 12:00.32 | chem|st | lardman: acwp doesn't work without internet so who to ask then? |
| 12:00.52 | lardman | chem|st: ok, in which case I was wrong and docscrutinizer was right, I stand corrected |
| 12:01.18 | chem|st | so what does the supl server supply then? |
| 12:01.21 | lardman | though awcp works for me without a net connection afaicr |
| 12:01.34 | lardman | supl supplies almanac & ephemerides |
| 12:01.50 | chem|st | based on CID? |
| 12:02.01 | lardman | based on whatever you give it |
| 12:02.14 | lardman | but yeah cellid would be normal |
| 12:02.37 | lardman | afaicr |
| 12:03.15 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: supl is even configurable anywhere in N900 settings iirc |
| 12:03.44 | lardman | you can set the server |
| 12:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 12:04.20 | DocScrutinizer | set it to your own transparent proxy, to learn about what it does :-D |
| 12:04.34 | lardman | or just download the spec docs |
| 12:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API#Location_methods |
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| 12:06.03 | lardman | so without a net connection, my position is shown using coarse accuracy ACWP |
| 12:06.43 | chem|st | lardman: reading broadcoms white-paper it says SUPL is much more than you are talking about and AGPS (almanac and stuff) is only one service out of many |
| 12:06.46 | lardman | though I'd have to move and check it's not cached of course |
| 12:06.50 | DocScrutinizer | or coordinates based on currently used GSM base station. Latter is used if such information exists in device's cache, which is updated when ACWP method is used |
| 12:06.53 | lardman | yes that's true |
| 12:07.24 | lardman | docscrutinizer: but how is it updated, over the gsm network or via an internet connection? |
| 12:07.36 | lardman | chem|st: the yes it's trye was for you :) |
| 12:07.43 | lardman | true |
| 12:08.11 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:08.29 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: LOCATION_METHOD_ACWP - Assisted Complementary Wireless Positioning: A method where device is located based on cellular base station to which device is registered to. SIM card and a network connection is needed for ACWP method. If no network connection is available, this equals to CWP |
| 12:08.48 | lardman | yeah but who wrote that in the wiki? |
| 12:08.54 | chem|st | lardman: "The SLP is a server or network equipment stack that handles tasks associated with user authentication, location requests, location-based application downloads, charging, and roaming." SLP=SUPL Location Platform |
| 12:09.09 | balzus | hi all |
| 12:09.16 | lardman | chem|st: yes indeed |
| 12:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: there's "history" menu entry for that, in wiki |
| 12:09.35 | chem|st | lardman: as I just said once I had ACWP locate me I was able to use CWP |
| 12:09.51 | lardman | anyway, I can't be bothered to argue, I'll admit defeat, though I still think that ACWP does not require anything more than a GSM connection |
| 12:09.57 | balzus | I ve installed opencv on the scratchbox but now that I m trying to run a simple program in there I get linking errors: error: undefined reference to cvNamedWindow etc |
| 12:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: LOCATION_METHOD_ACWP - Assisted Complementary Wireless Positioning: A method where device is located based on cellular base station to which device is registered to. SIM card and a network connection is needed for ACWP method. If no network connection is available, this equals to CWP |
| 12:10.24 | balzus | If I compile outside the scratchbox it works... (i m using pkg-configure) |
| 12:10.32 | balzus | pkg-config |
| 12:10.32 | chem|st | lardman: SUPL technology as in separated network layers isn't implemented to masses yet |
| 12:10.59 | lardman | docscrutinizer: shall I also repeat my response? |
| 12:11.17 | chem|st | lardman: I will test that as soon as I leave town and tell you after that |
| 12:11.22 | lardman | chem|st: all I said was that a SUPL server is used to provide data to bootstrap the gps |
| 12:11.24 | DocScrutinizer | you maybe should read the full wikipage |
| 12:11.33 | lardman | docscrutinizer: I did |
| 12:11.52 | DocScrutinizer | so it sounded like fool's talk to you? |
| 12:11.56 | chem|st | lardman: and you said it does not supply lat/lon |
| 12:12.04 | lardman | docscrutinizer: you seem to be an expert in matters GSM, so I shall bow to your infinite wisdom |
| 12:12.29 | DocScrutinizer | no, I'm a noob compared to e.g SpeedEvil |
| 12:12.47 | lardman | chem|st: no, I said it provides alamanc and ephemeris data and possibly lat/lon, I then asked whether whoever it was had been able to access this SUPL data, as I doubted it |
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| 12:13.44 | chem|st | lardman: so you think the BTS supplies the most data? |
| 12:13.52 | lardman | no |
| 12:14.12 | lardman | good God, have you guys all got out the wrong side of bed today? |
| 12:14.53 | derf | _I_ am still in bed, so no, not yet. |
| 12:15.01 | chem|st | lardman: actualy that is the idea of SUPL, to have a separate networklayer implemented in wireless networks to provide all data without affecting any effects of normal usage |
| 12:15.07 | balzus | no one? |
| 12:15.27 | DocScrutinizer | hey, you claim our beloved brick has a new cute function that nobody of us ever heard of. You're surprised we want to know the whole story? |
| 12:15.43 | lardman | ah, shall I reiterate |
| 12:16.04 | chem|st | balzus: no clue! but a package compiling on your desktop might need some hands-on for compiling for another architecture |
| 12:16.25 | lardman | chem|st: I know what SUPL is for, the question was simply to ask of whoever it was who said that they were using the SUPL data to obtain lat/lon directly whether they were actually doing this, or whether it was coming by some other method |
| 12:16.50 | tybollt | DocScrutinizer: 'brick' :-D |
| 12:16.54 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: maybe sort your talk and your arguments chain, rather than reinterate |
| 12:17.01 | chem|st | lardman: yes that is the point! why would I powerup battery hungry GPS/wifi if there is BTS positioning |
| 12:17.36 | lardman | docscrutinizer: my understanding, quite possibly wrong, but based on a talk I saw at one of the Maemo summits, was that ACWP does not require an internet connection, but does require a GSM network connection, possible with some layer ontop, I don't know, I'm certainly not claiming to have any expertise in the matter |
| 12:19.03 | DocScrutinizer | I said I'm willing to think of that as a possible way things work, actually even said it's likely regarding how the hardware works |
| 12:19.39 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@81.18.92.10) |
| 12:19.57 | chem|st | lardman: that is the general idea, not used as they make money with not using it! |
| 12:20.42 | DocScrutinizer | but then we should be able to see a ACWP -enable command sent to rapuyama/cellmo and it coming back with proper 1000m accuracy lon/lat immediately |
| 12:20.51 | lardman | I really wish I'd never even mentioned SUPL |
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| 12:21.24 | lardman | docscrutinizer: yes, that would be a way of testing it, I'd like to know whether it works |
| 12:21.24 | chem|st | it is like tesla had ideas of powersupply OTA but everyone could use it without payment so none of the companies will ever do research on that |
| 12:21.48 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: obviously needs support of carrier |
| 12:21.53 | lardman | yep |
| 12:22.08 | lardman | I'll have to ask SpeedEvil what his opinion is later on |
| 12:22.19 | DocScrutinizer | yep, a good idea |
| 12:23.19 | chem|st | lardman: the SUPL servers you enter into n900 settings is actually a workaround for IP based SUPL |
| 12:23.40 | DocScrutinizer | obviously, as it's a internet DNS URL |
| 12:23.54 | chem|st | ;) |
| 12:24.06 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: aye CAPTAIN |
| 12:24.32 | balzus | chem|st: got it |
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| 12:24.58 | balzus | I have found that only the highgui library isn-t recognized |
| 12:25.07 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: but there is a lot of space for more data in gsm and umts not used that much |
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| 12:25.49 | schasch | Hi, I still can not send the command over dbus to get: |
| 12:25.49 | schasch | -signal sender=:1.11 -> dest=(null destination) serial=10691 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_logicaldev_input; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition |
| 12:25.49 | schasch | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:25.49 | schasch | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:25.49 | schasch | in dbus-monitor --system |
| 12:25.51 | schasch | I tried "dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_logicaldev_input org.freedesktop.Hal.Device string:ButtonPressed string:power" |
| 12:25.54 | schasch | but the answer is: "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.hal was not provided by any .service files" |
| 12:25.57 | schasch | can not fins anything about it (dest=???) ? Any ideas? |
| 12:26.45 | chem|st | 160 chars long, sent on every SYN/ACK of celltowers |
| 12:31.15 | DocScrutinizer | schasch: it's a signal |
| 12:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | that's why dest=(null) |
| 12:32.56 | schasch | DocScrutinizer : thanks, so not possible to do it by software (dbus-send or c-code) ? |
| 12:33.13 | schasch | DocScrutinizer : I want to fake the powerpress ... |
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| 12:38.46 | chem|st | schasch: why don't you fake waht you want to do instead?! |
| 12:39.02 | chem|st | you want the menu pop out? |
| 12:39.12 | balzus | I m compiling in scratchbox opecv but I get this error>: cannot find -lpython2.3 |
| 12:39.35 | balzus | I have installed the intere nokia package so I shouldn-t get this error |
| 12:40.28 | schasch | chem|st : no I want to show the time whenn N900 is locked |
| 12:40.30 | schasch | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66416 |
| 12:40.43 | schasch | this problem gets me crazy... |
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| 12:41.09 | schasch | faking the button would show screenshot 1 |
| 12:42.17 | chem|st | schasch: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus/libdbus-tutorial.html that might help |
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| 12:42.47 | schasch | chem|st : thanks, I will have look! |
| 12:43.49 | chem|st | schasch: but wouldn't it be a much more logic way to keep the display on without unlocking instead? |
| 12:44.41 | schasch | chem|st : NO, I want to lock it! |
| 12:44.55 | chem|st | schasch: and you know that keeping the display lid will dry the battery even while charging |
| 12:45.12 | chem|st | schasch: YES "without unlocking" |
| 12:46.41 | schasch | chem|st : display on is no problem, but showing the time and keeping display on is a problem |
| 12:47.19 | schasch | chem|st : the link you showed me is to use dbus in c-code? or didn't I get it? |
| 12:47.33 | schasch | chem|st : dbus-send would be OK for me |
| 12:48.08 | schasch | chem|st : if I use c-code I also have to know the args to set this signal, or ? |
| 12:48.29 | chem|st | yes |
| 12:48.55 | chem|st | schasch: what about a desktop homescreen clock? |
| 12:49.20 | schasch | chem|st : see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66487 too |
| 12:49.35 | schasch | chem|st : I want to have a secured/locked device |
| 12:50.55 | lardman | balzus: wrong version of Python |
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| 12:51.37 | lardman | balzus: might be caused by the fact that sb comes with its own old version of python |
| 12:52.23 | schasch | chem|st : batterie is no problem for me |
| 12:52.42 | chem|st | schasch: now I get it... you know about timed slideshows used in digi-picturestands as fun-clocks? maybe that would be a brilliant idea as you said you get mplayer to play |
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| 12:54.12 | schasch | chem|st : "you know about timed slideshows used in digi-picturestands" no,what's that? |
| 12:54.45 | schasch | chem|st : mplayer . microwindows text2screen work |
| 12:55.01 | schasch | chem|st : because of writing directly in framebuffer |
| 12:55.16 | schasch | chem|st : so no problem, even if N900 is locked |
| 12:55.20 | balzus | lardman: uhm so what can I do_ |
| 12:55.22 | balzus | ? |
| 12:56.06 | schasch | chem|st : the key-screen is not painted often, so no prblem to use framebuffer |
| 12:56.32 | schasch | chem|st : but powerbutton by software shows the clock and would be nicer |
| 12:56.34 | chem|st | get a picture slideshow output to fb timed to your needs |
| 12:56.37 | chem|st | schasch: http://www.heise.de/foto/artikel/Digitale-Bilderrahmen-zweckentfremdet-1023520.html |
| 12:56.55 | balzus | it says also: skipping incompatible /scratchbox/blabla/libpython2.3.a when searching for -lpython2.3 |
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| 12:57.27 | Venemo_ | MohammadAG: ping |
| 12:59.02 | lardman | balzus: what does "which python" say? |
| 12:59.32 | balzus | I fix it, I use ./configure --host+arm |
| 12:59.45 | balzus | host=arm * |
| 12:59.49 | balzus | thx anyway |
| 12:59.52 | lardman | np |
| 13:01.03 | schasch | chem|st : I want to use my N900, this device is the best and I can do almost everything with it, exept this 'stupid' function when it is locked :-( |
| 14:44.20 | *** join/#maemo infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 14:44.20 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 14:44.48 | schasch | DocScrutinizer : I have to open a new garage |
| 14:45.31 | schasch | <alterego : wow....nice! |
| 14:46.55 | alterego | schasch: it's a qml framework for talking to lirc on the N900 |
| 14:46.57 | alterego | (basically) |
| 14:47.29 | alterego | But that's packaged specifically to be an XBox 360 remote, but you could, looking at the QML source, make it control any configured remote with lirc. |
| 14:48.19 | dany | Could not exec dpkg! |
| 14:48.20 | dany | E: Sub-process dpkg returned an error code (100) |
| 14:48.29 | dany | anyone has ever got this error? |
| 14:48.35 | schasch | alterego : OK thanks |
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| 14:52.26 | BCMM | that's kinda pretty, apart from the xbox logo |
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| 14:56.31 | dany | what a bloody error.. |
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| 15:04.59 | jacktheripper | dany, try this: http://thelowedown.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/debian-apt-get-installs-fail-with-dpkg-error-code-100/ |
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| 15:18.58 | dany | jacktheripper: thx I'm going to try it :) |
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| 15:23.34 | dany | jacktheripper: tried but there is not the dpkg in my scratchbox |
| 15:23.40 | dany | I don't know why |
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| 15:24.02 | dany | in /usr/bin there are only: [sbox-definitiveARM: /usr/bin] > ls |
| 15:24.02 | dany | catchsegv cc gencat getconf getent ldd locale localedef mtrace rpcgen rpcinfo tzselect zdump |
| 15:24.08 | jacktheripper | uh what !? |
| 15:24.23 | jacktheripper | type 'which dpkg' |
| 15:24.41 | *** join/#maemo lardman_ (~lardman@78.147.5.85) |
| 15:25.25 | dany | which: no dpkg in (/host_usr/bin:/scratchbox/devkits/svn/bin:/scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin:/scratchbox/devkits/perl/bin:/scratchbox/devkits/git/bin:/scratchbox/devkits/doctools/bin:/scratchbox/devkits/apt-https/bin:/scratchbox/tools/bin:/targets/links/arch_tools/bin:/scratchbox/compilers/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin) |
| 15:26.13 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@192.100.124.156) |
| 15:27.14 | *** join/#maemo FauxFaux (faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk) |
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| 15:36.36 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~lardman@78.148.159.187) |
| 15:38.25 | dany | I can't install anything |
| 15:38.38 | dany | it's like if I have not the dpkg |
| 15:39.09 | *** join/#maemo dRbiG (p@irc.kaer.tk) |
| 15:42.03 | jacktheripper | you don't have dpkg |
| 15:42.22 | jacktheripper | did you install nokia-binaries ? |
| 15:42.58 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:47.32 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@86.57.155.118) |
| 15:48.59 | pupnik | local linux root escalation exploit published Dec 07 http://infolookup.securegossip.com/2010/12/07/linux-kernel-exploit-poc-demo/ |
| 15:49.00 | dRbiG | hmm, kind of spamming again: does anyone know if a 32gb microsd card will work with n900? |
| 15:49.41 | *** join/#maemo haltdef (ponies@unaffiliated/haltdef) |
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| 15:51.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 15:51.05 | chem|st | dRbiG: should |
| 15:52.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik: forgot your root passwd? |
| 15:52.05 | dRbiG | DocScrutinizer51: that 'yes' was to my question? :) |
| 15:52.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 15:52.26 | dRbiG | hehe, ok, thx |
| 15:53.49 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-116-14.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 15:53.58 | dRbiG | i guess my 16gb pendrive that i bought this year is kind'a obsolete now |
| 15:54.21 | *** join/#maemo svillar (~sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 15:54.59 | dRbiG | however it still has the advantage of being much more what-ever-bad-happens-proof than a fragile n900 |
| 15:55.27 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 15:55.37 | *** join/#maemo viggi (~viggi@cs181168042.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:56.11 | chem|st | dRbiG: it is not fragile... dropped stairs, 2m on concrete, 0.5L direct splash wheatbeer-coke mix... that does not sound fragile |
| 15:57.05 | dRbiG | chem|st: luck which i usually lack |
| 15:57.30 | dRbiG | anyway, that's good to hear |
| 15:57.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | Well the IP (intrusion proterction) isn't that great for liquids, in general |
| 15:58.00 | dRbiG | i still have high hopes of my n900 surviving with me for few years at least |
| 15:58.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | damn, hope you're not THAT ill |
| 15:59.25 | *** join/#maemo Necc (~user@netacc-gpn-4-55-105.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 15:59.43 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer51: no it's just a curiosity sorry for the ot |
| 16:00.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik: eh? |
| 16:00.22 | pupnik | nm |
| 16:01.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | I got a few tritium lights which I'm absolutely sure will shine on my tomb |
| 16:01.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | but n900... |
| 16:01.33 | sivang | hi all |
| 16:01.56 | sivang | can anybody please toss me the links to trapping SMSs and possibly running a script with them/ when they arrive? |
| 16:02.07 | sivang | I had links for this on forum and wiki, but damn gmail |
| 16:02.14 | sivang | "never delete, just search" does not really work |
| 16:02.24 | sivang | whe you've used gmail for long enough |
| 16:02.39 | sivang | I don't need to decode them, just forward them |
| 16:02.51 | sivang | if there's an app for that, that's also good |
| 16:04.21 | sivang | now that I think of it, there's a call forwarder app somewhere that can be used for the same purpose |
| 16:04.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | o.O |
| 16:05.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | call forwarder app? |
| 16:05.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | how'd that work? |
| 16:06.18 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 16:06.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | you're not talking about starhash and *61*5554565#, are you? |
| 16:07.11 | sivang | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/callforwarding/0.3.1/ |
| 16:07.31 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: I have no idea what I am talking about. but I recall an python app, that traps calls and does soemthing on them |
| 16:07.45 | sivang | quite easily I remember it would be to switch the trapping with listening to sms dbus events |
| 16:07.49 | sivang | and act upon them as well |
| 16:08.52 | sivang | nobody has the link or the app name or so? :) |
| 16:08.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh, forget that nonsense call forwarding app. It's a subset of *#ena with a useless GUI |
| 16:09.19 | sivang | okay, but trapping sms's and forwarding them, e.g. using the dbus api to send them onward? |
| 16:09.21 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 16:09.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | no idea |
| 16:10.44 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 16:11.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | there's python and other code to send an sms, somewhere on wiki |
| 16:12.12 | sivang | yes |
| 16:12.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | but trigger on reception... |
| 16:12.25 | sivang | gmail is a pile of nonsense |
| 16:12.36 | sivang | no use to search through stuff long ago |
| 16:12.38 | sivang | sighs |
| 16:12.53 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer51: tritium has a half-life of 12 years or something |
| 16:12.58 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: there was something like that |
| 16:13.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | I seem to remember there's been a wipe app that nulls your device on a sms key |
| 16:13.23 | Macer | hm |
| 16:13.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | BCMM: exactly |
| 16:13.51 | Macer | anybody notice the browser in maemo randomly crashes when typing in an address when it tries to pull up the history? |
| 16:13.57 | Macer | or is it just me |
| 16:14.36 | BCMM | mine just randomly loses all it's history from time to time |
| 16:15.02 | Macer | that too :) |
| 16:15.19 | sivang | BCMM: had that, but it never crashed |
| 16:15.22 | sivang | it never crashed to me |
| 16:15.23 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:15.30 | sivang | nomatter how much stress I've put on it or os |
| 16:15.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | I just noticed ^F is useless esp on zoomed pages |
| 16:16.02 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: google is also useless in searching throgh maemo wiki as well |
| 16:16.31 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:16.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm really? |
| 16:17.58 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:19.01 | Macer | well. i keep having it randomly crash |
| 16:20.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe run it under gdb control? |
| 16:21.39 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@curitiba.ic.unicamp.br) |
| 16:21.51 | Macer | how well does n wifi work? |
| 16:21.59 | Macer | anybody here use it much? |
| 16:22.17 | Macer | i was wondering if it could really stream high def video well |
| 16:22.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | errr, depends on AP and client |
| 16:24.15 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-nwcxjawpasfeuzcm) |
| 16:24.47 | alterego | Macer: works great at my parents. |
| 16:24.50 | alterego | Super speedy :D |
| 16:25.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | not with n900 |
| 16:25.53 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@85.78.26.96) |
| 16:27.24 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@186.212.103.21) |
| 16:29.46 | nomis | DocScrutinizer51: I recently was wrong btw. LIRC on the n900 *can* deal with raw codes. No idea if I was just confused or if this was impossible in earlier maemo releases. |
| 16:30.25 | *** join/#maemo Zuccace (zucca@cs181186108.pp.htv.fi) |
| 16:32.23 | alterego | nomis: I think you were confused ;) |
| 16:32.35 | alterego | bbl |
| 16:33.25 | nomis | the accuracy of the IR transmitter and/or its driver is pretty bad though. |
| 16:35.00 | nomis | I did a test with 100us to 5000us pulses (in 100us steps) and captured the real timing with a IR receiver. Fitting a line against this data set shows, that the pulses on average are too long for about 133us. |
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| 16:50.53 | sivang | ah, so nice. |
| 16:51.03 | sivang | all sms's are in the sqlite db |
| 16:51.31 | sivang | select * from Events where event_type_id=7 |
| 16:51.36 | sivang | gets you all the SMS's |
| 16:51.42 | MohammadAG | as well as all convo logs |
| 16:52.02 | sivang | MohammadAG: yes, very cool, I mean, we like to complain about Maemo but the thigns you can do with it :) |
| 16:52.05 | BCMM | nomis: is there a predictable delay in turning the transmitter off? maybe it would be possible to take it into account |
| 16:52.28 | sivang | so there's code on the wiki to encode PDU |
| 16:52.34 | MohammadAG | ffs why is xchat beeping |
| 16:52.46 | sivang | and to send, there's as well. all pieces are there. Now just code. |
| 16:52.52 | sivang | thanks people, again |
| 16:53.05 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: :-S |
| 16:53.15 | sivang | ROTFL |
| 16:53.31 | nomis | BCMM: not sure yet. Trying to figure out how to generate a good data set to base a prediction on. |
| 16:54.34 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: do you thihnk it is feasible to use the FM transmitter/antenna to auto probe free fm band to use to transmit to a car? |
| 16:54.40 | nomis | my first shot would be to subtract 133us on pulses longer than that. But I have not yet understood if this affects the pauses as well. |
| 16:54.50 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: sure |
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| 16:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: FMTX even has a dedicated rx for that |
| 16:56.10 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: the question though is how much's the jitter |
| 16:56.15 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: do we have software for that? |
| 16:56.15 | *** join/#maemo hardaker2 (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 16:56.22 | sivang | if not, i am very keen to help |
| 16:56.26 | DocScrutinizer | not afaik |
| 16:56.27 | sivang | but I know nothing about hardware hacking |
| 16:56.33 | sivang | so I'd nee some help |
| 16:57.13 | DocScrutinizer | umm, I'm not sure the datasheet for FMTX is publicaly available |
| 16:57.15 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: FMTX is like the fm tx/rx chip ? |
| 16:57.24 | *** join/#maemo LeakyPug (7aae60a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.174.96.169) |
| 16:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | RX is a function of BT iirc |
| 16:57.59 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: but if it is a stock chip, we just ask for it from the mfctr? |
| 16:58.00 | DocScrutinizer | TX is a dedicated chip, which has a dedicated RX for searching free freq only |
| 16:58.09 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: wow nice |
| 16:58.36 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/timing-plot.txt - have fun with gnuplot. It contains three samples per value each. |
| 16:58.39 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: BT RX is broadcast tower reception? |
| 16:58.46 | DocScrutinizer | check wiki, if there's anything to know then SpeedEvil has summarized it in wiki |
| 16:58.54 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: in his page? |
| 16:59.02 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Receiver |
| 16:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | in hardware category |
| 16:59.26 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: TX |
| 16:59.29 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 16:59.41 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter |
| 16:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 16:59.55 | SpeedEvil | you get the full ds if you register free |
| 17:00.07 | DocScrutinizer | aah that's been it |
| 17:00.30 | DocScrutinizer | though I seem to remember the ds was poor, had no proper register table? |
| 17:00.56 | SpeedEvil | don't recall |
| 17:01.01 | DocScrutinizer | and just a reference to some poc implementation |
| 17:02.59 | FauxFaux | How do you open or copy text from e-mails? :s |
| 17:03.20 | MohammadAG | yeah..., you can't do that |
| 17:03.35 | MohammadAG | unless you click reply, then use shift + arrow keys and CTRL + C |
| 17:03.51 | sivang | FauxFaux: copy them from the sqlite db :) |
| 17:03.54 | sivang | runs away |
| 17:03.54 | MohammadAG | naw fuck |
| 17:03.56 | MohammadAG | Preparing to replace mediaplayer 1.3-4+0m5 (using mediaplayer_0.0.1_armel.deb) .. |
| 17:04.04 | MohammadAG | I replaced the stock media player :/ |
| 17:04.14 | sivang | SpeedEvil, DocScrutinizer : thank you people |
| 17:04.31 | FauxFaux | That's pretty bad. |
| 17:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | thank SpeedEvil - he's the god of wiki hw info |
| 17:05.09 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:05.34 | *** join/#maemo APTX (~APTX@phpBB/developer/APTX) |
| 17:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: HAHA :-/ |
| 17:06.26 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:07.12 | DocScrutinizer | FauxFaux: modest is ... modest aka crap :-P |
| 17:07.42 | LeakyPug | hi guys.. |
| 17:07.55 | DocScrutinizer | probably you couldn't find a better name for it |
| 17:08.06 | LeakyPug | i there anyway in can save space on my rootfs? |
| 17:08.46 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, don't install poorly maintained aps from maemo-devel |
| 17:09.03 | BCMM | also, rm -r is your friend |
| 17:09.08 | BCMM | well, no it isn't |
| 17:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | well, rm -ri maybe |
| 17:09.31 | LeakyPug | okay.. |
| 17:09.34 | jacktheripper | rm -rf |
| 17:09.38 | jacktheripper | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:09.38 | FauxFaux | goes back to alpine. -_- |
| 17:10.01 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.130) |
| 17:10.07 | DocScrutinizer | LeakyPug: be careful with whatever rm. You should know what you're doing |
| 17:10.39 | sivang | SpeedEvil: is it okay to ask you hardware related questions if I find any while working through the docs? how's that yard going? :) |
| 17:10.42 | LeakyPug | ya okay Doc.and I have installed some 20 small apps and i find my device temporarily bricking. |
| 17:11.11 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:11.19 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@curitiba.ic.unicamp.br) |
| 17:11.20 | MohammadAG | brick = permanent |
| 17:11.25 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: always welcome |
| 17:11.26 | MohammadAG | just a tech grammar nazi |
| 17:11.28 | LeakyPug | okay :D |
| 17:11.38 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 17:11.47 | LeakyPug | sorry for my inevitable error ;) |
| 17:11.59 | MohammadAG | You are forgiven |
| 17:12.09 | LeakyPug | but why is it? |
| 17:12.21 | MohammadAG | NowPlayingWindow: Orientation changed: Portrait. |
| 17:12.21 | LeakyPug | i find just a black screen for some few mins.. |
| 17:12.23 | DocScrutinizer | why is what? |
| 17:12.27 | MohammadAG | Segmentation fault |
| 17:12.27 | MohammadAG | curses |
| 17:12.41 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 17:12.52 | alterego | Heh |
| 17:13.08 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 17:13.32 | MohammadAG | ah |
| 17:13.38 | MohammadAG | had it set to something that didn't exist |
| 17:13.44 | *** join/#maemo evilrob (~rhaig@butters.hackboy.com) |
| 17:13.46 | SpeedEvil | sivang: yes. |
| 17:13.55 | MohammadAG | needs a microUSB cable |
| 17:14.05 | MohammadAG | forgot where mine is, and I only have the N8's one |
| 17:14.33 | MohammadAG | alterego, any idea why some layouts get a widget, others don't? |
| 17:14.39 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you bricked it again? :-P |
| 17:14.50 | alterego | MohammadAG: not sure what you mean :P |
| 17:15.11 | *** part/#maemo LeakyPug (7aae60a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.174.96.169) |
| 17:15.46 | SpeedEvil | wonders how to flash through the battery contacts. |
| 17:15.53 | *** join/#maemo kimitake (~kimitake@netblock-68-183-238-142.dslextreme.com) |
| 17:15.59 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: wut? |
| 17:16.00 | MohammadAG | alterego, when using Qt creator, some layouts are ui->verticalLayout and ui->verticalLayoutWidget |
| 17:16.10 | MohammadAG | others are only ui->verticalLayout |
| 17:16.20 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ooh the TPs? |
| 17:17.44 | SpeedEvil | the test points, yes |
| 17:17.50 | SpeedEvil | not the actual battery contacts. |
| 17:17.55 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sorry, please help me out - the layout has two separate sub-layouts for portrait and landscape? |
| 17:18.13 | MohammadAG | yes, if I want to include some customizations |
| 17:18.21 | alterego | MohammadAG: dunno about that, never use designer. |
| 17:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: JTAG. Or there are twins of USB |
| 17:18.43 | DocScrutinizer | or via TTY |
| 17:19.51 | DocScrutinizer | I'd guess nokia managed to have some FBus or MBus compatible thing there as well, just for sanity of their care center tech staff |
| 17:22.19 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@ALyon-152-1-27-110.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:22.19 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 17:22.41 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: and how many of the stock apps actually support (aka contain) portrait optimized layouts? |
| 17:23.14 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, none? |
| 17:23.20 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 17:23.24 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, aren't we aiming to change this? |
| 17:23.42 | DocScrutinizer | how ould you change this for the blobs? |
| 17:24.01 | DocScrutinizer | while I think about it... Not even dialer-ui? |
| 17:24.37 | DocScrutinizer | nm, a moot question |
| 17:24.41 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, aren't we like... rewriting the mediaplayer? |
| 17:24.56 | DocScrutinizer | you are I guess :-D |
| 17:25.12 | chem|st | MohammadAG: yeah append to playlist |
| 17:25.33 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, there screenshots weren't mere photoshops :P http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=892020&postcount=65 |
| 17:25.37 | DocScrutinizer | insert to playlist, remove from playlist, cut & paste |
| 17:25.53 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: gathered as much |
| 17:26.46 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: otherwise I'd never have started bitching about tracker dependency |
| 17:27.37 | DocScrutinizer | and suggested to base on a filesystem centric aproach, with later addon of tracker |
| 17:29.05 | *** part/#maemo juliank (~juliank@ubuntu/member/juliank) |
| 17:29.33 | MohammadAG | right now, the code just finds mp3s and adds them to the list, no actual playback support |
| 17:30.31 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, as long as it does this via filesystem access, I'm confident this app will have a bright future |
| 17:31.01 | DocScrutinizer | even when later on it adds in tracker based file lists |
| 17:31.19 | *** join/#maemo Tscheesy_ (~quassel@alfred.neversfelde.de) |
| 17:31.36 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, this isn't final or anything: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=893419&postcount=96 |
| 17:32.43 | MohammadAG | that's with one layout FYI |
| 17:33.06 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.130) |
| 17:33.25 | MohammadAG | I plan to move the buttons to the top, move the volume bar... actually, is one really needed? I mean, the HW buttons are easily accessible in portrait mode |
| 17:34.51 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: interested in more raw data? I have captured about 10000 pulses now and 9000 gaps... |
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| 17:47.40 | alterego | ping DocScrutinizer |
| 17:50.15 | alterego | Think I might be ready to releaes a "tech preview" of Columbus into extras tomorrow. |
| 17:50.28 | alterego | Actually, more likely to happen on Saturday as I'm out tomorrow. |
| 17:50.40 | alterego | I've come up with a brainwave though as far as USB serial access is concerned. |
| 17:51.42 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: do you think it'd be okay, if, someone enables USB serial tethering in my app (for NMEA streaming) then I disable pnatd (stop phonet-at) and send data, then on shutdown (start phonet-at). |
| 17:51.59 | alterego | This would mean I hijack the 3G serial connection, but no modified kernel module is required. |
| 17:52.39 | alterego | I'm thinking that's what I'm going to do for this "tech-preview" until I come up with a nice polished new g_nokia driver. |
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| 18:03.18 | pupnik | "Developers celebrate Halloween and Christmas together because Oct(31) == Dec(25)" |
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| 18:05.54 | lardman | pupnik: lol |
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| 18:06.57 | pupnik | i'd never heard that one before lardman |
| 18:07.33 | lardman | it's good :) |
| 18:09.47 | alterego | Heh |
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| 18:13.30 | jase21 | Why am I not able to compile a c program using tcc in N900? |
| 18:14.21 | jase21 | I get stdio.h not found and a couple of other errors |
| 18:14.39 | jase21 | Did anyone tried it? |
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| 18:15.25 | lardman | tcc? |
| 18:15.55 | jase21 | lardman: yes tiny c compiler for maemo-extras-devel. |
| 18:16.24 | jase21 | Is there gcc available? |
| 18:16.25 | lcuk | i thought tcc was x86 specific? |
| 18:16.52 | lardman | gcc should be about hey lcuk ;) |
| 18:17.09 | lcuk | heh, the description on tcc package page even says that |
| 18:17.10 | lardman | heads to the pub for some good |
| 18:17.10 | lcuk | TCC (for Tiny C Compiler) is a small and fast ANSI C compiler. It generates optimized x86 code, and can compile, assemble, and link several times faster than 'gcc -O0'. |
| 18:17.11 | lardman | food |
| 18:17.13 | lardman | bbl |
| 18:17.16 | lcuk | \http://maemo.org/packages/view/tcc/ |
| 18:17.20 | lcuk | hey lardman \o |
| 18:17.42 | lardman|away | c ya lcuk |
| 18:17.55 | lcuk | jase21, sdk/tools repository has everything you ever wanted but didnt have enough space to fit happily |
| 18:18.03 | lcuk | things like build-essential etc ;) |
| 18:18.09 | jase21 | luck: Means it compiles to x86 on N900? |
| 18:18.51 | jase21 | lcuk: where is sdk/tools repo? |
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| 18:20.04 | jase21 | So tcc on N900 is actually a waste. Then I'll purge it. |
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| 18:21.44 | lcuk | jase21, the rabbit hole starts here: http://repository.maemo.org/ how you proceed is upto you |
| 18:21.49 | trx | what code editors do you use on n900? |
| 18:22.03 | trx | i havent found any good :/ |
| 18:22.06 | jase21 | trx: vi |
| 18:22.15 | lcuk | >>> gone |
| 18:22.16 | trx | ill check that |
| 18:22.47 | jase21 | There is pygtkeditor too (especially for python.) |
| 18:23.01 | trx | i spent last few hours coding a new one |
| 18:23.16 | trx | with highlighting |
| 18:23.20 | trx | and macros |
| 18:23.47 | jase21 | trx: have seen vim in the repos? |
| 18:24.06 | trx | nope, im looking for it right now |
| 18:24.43 | jase21 | trx: I think its in the devl repo. Btw vi comes in-buit to busybox. |
| 18:25.01 | trx | oh |
| 18:25.35 | trx | ok, vi is terminal based |
| 18:25.38 | trx | dont like that :/ |
| 18:25.58 | jase21 | trx: hah. then get vim or pygtkeditor. |
| 18:26.26 | MohammadAG | or khteditor |
| 18:26.38 | MohammadAG | it's a lot faster |
| 18:27.10 | trx | ill try them out, ty for suggestion |
| 18:27.16 | trx | suggestions* |
| 18:27.17 | jase21 | MohammadAG: okay will check that. |
| 18:27.47 | MohammadAG | same coder FYI, but it uses PyQt instead |
| 18:28.20 | jase21 | MohammadAG: oh Qt. Then its going to be a no. |
| 18:28.34 | MohammadAG | why? |
| 18:28.53 | jase21 | GTK is better. Don't you think so? |
| 18:29.06 | MohammadAG | not on maemo really |
| 18:29.17 | jase21 | why? |
| 18:29.58 | jase21 | Is there anything specific to Qt on maemo that makes it better than gtk+? |
| 18:30.35 | MohammadAG | Yeah, faster UIs |
| 18:31.06 | jase21 | okay. |
| 18:31.07 | MohammadAG | actually, smoother, the PyGTK Hildon PannableArea is really slow |
| 18:31.48 | jase21 | oh. Let me ask you something. Should I use PyMaemo or PyQt? |
| 18:32.22 | trx | thats why mine doesnt use py or qt :) |
| 18:32.27 | jase21 | I was generally of the impression that C is better than C++ and so is the libs written in them. |
| 18:33.34 | MohammadAG | not sure, I dumped both due to Python being slow on a 600MHz device |
| 18:33.59 | jase21 | Oh, so what do you prefer? |
| 18:34.00 | lcuk | s/a 600Mhz/any/ |
| 18:34.08 | jase21 | C++? |
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| 18:35.48 | MohammadAG | lcuk, I don't notice it on a quad core i5 :P |
| 18:36.17 | lcuk | you might not, but those little cores are working hard to keep up! |
| 18:36.20 | MohammadAG | jase21, C++/Qt, still smoother than C/GTK but probably uses a fraction more memory |
| 18:36.44 | jase21 | MohammadAG: okay. |
| 18:36.58 | MohammadAG | testing Qt app (hostmode-gui v0.2) compliation on the N900 |
| 18:37.30 | MohammadAG | can't say it's going fast |
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| 18:39.05 | jase21 | MohammadAG: Couldn't JIT Compiled python run faster. IMHO python give a pleasent experience for programming. |
| 18:39.31 | MohammadAG | C++ is fun |
| 18:39.41 | jase21 | hah |
| 18:39.57 | jase21 | okay. You are C++ guy. :D |
| 18:40.46 | jase21 | Did anyone install lighttpd on N900? |
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| 18:42.58 | jase21 | purged tcc. |
| 18:43.19 | luke-jr | jase21: NO |
| 18:43.24 | MohammadAG | real6m38.424s |
| 18:43.24 | luke-jr | python give a headache experience |
| 18:43.51 | jase21 | luck-jr: what was your headache? |
| 18:43.54 | trx | yeah, these all suck (editors) |
| 18:44.11 | luke-jr | jase21: a pain in my head |
| 18:44.17 | trx | im gonna finish mine (which will prolly also suck :) ) |
| 18:44.42 | jase21 | luck-jr: what, not where. Hah.l |
| 18:44.51 | luke-jr | jase21: Python |
| 18:45.34 | jase21 | luck-jr: ok, don't recurse. |
| 18:45.49 | luke-jr | Perl, on the other hand, is relaxingly beautiful |
| 18:46.03 | slonopotamus | python is for losers! real men code in C |
| 18:46.10 | jase21 | luck-jr: oh no.. you better run. |
| 18:46.12 | luke-jr | C is easy to debug ⺠|
| 18:46.32 | jase21 | slonopotamus: well real men code in asm. |
| 18:46.35 | luke-jr | no |
| 18:46.37 | luke-jr | only fools code in asm |
| 18:46.39 | slonopotamus | no |
| 18:46.43 | luke-jr | and low-level driver engineers |
| 18:46.52 | jase21 | Not really. |
| 18:46.55 | luke-jr | yes really |
| 18:47.02 | luke-jr | asm isn't portable |
| 18:47.11 | slonopotamus | jase21, you can't write portable code in asm |
| 18:47.16 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, heh |
| 18:47.26 | jase21 | My target is OMAP3430. |
| 18:47.40 | luke-jr | I suppose that tiny-C-subset-that-maps-directly-to-asm would make sense |
| 18:47.44 | trx | anyways, Delphi is the win :) |
| 18:47.58 | luke-jr | jase21: one-time code is useless |
| 18:48.03 | jase21 | okay, why don't you say lisp instaed? |
| 18:48.17 | luke-jr | jase21: because I don't mean lisp |
| 18:48.32 | luke-jr | CoreBoot project has a C subset that compiles directly to asm |
| 18:48.37 | jase21 | luck-jr: ok, agreed (one one time code ..) |
| 18:48.38 | luke-jr | for initializing memory controllers and stuff |
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| 18:48.53 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 18:48.58 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: stfu, we're talking |
| 18:49.08 | jase21 | hah |
| 18:49.58 | jase21 | you can call c functions from python. |
| 18:50.18 | jase21 | so performance critical stuffs can go there. |
| 18:50.20 | luke-jr | I doubt that mitigates the headaches |
| 18:50.34 | luke-jr | probably increases the un-debuggability |
| 18:50.52 | jase21 | oh debugging. |
| 18:51.20 | jase21 | It can be managed. |
| 18:51.37 | luke-jr | manage a segfault |
| 18:51.45 | luke-jr | and corrupt stack |
| 18:52.07 | slonopotamus | jase21, python is ~60 times slower than C and is dynamically typed. see, only disadvantages. |
| 18:52.13 | jase21 | hmm.. well not really. Why does segfault occurs at the first place? |
| 18:52.42 | TiagoTiago | i'm trying to setup a SIP account from iptel.org, i already got the account on their server, but i'm having difculties figuring out what i'm doing wrong on my N900; is there a log somewhere for the chat between the N900 and the SIP server for me to see where things are borking? |
| 18:52.45 | slonopotamus | jase21, same question, s/segfault/AttributeError/ |
| 18:53.06 | jase21 | slonopotamus: that's sort of trading between performance and ease of coding. |
| 18:53.25 | luke-jr | jase21: but Python isn't easier, it's harder |
| 18:54.08 | slonopotamus | jase21, ease of coding when you only get runtime checking? no way |
| 18:54.08 | jase21 | Which part of python is harder? Is it becuse its dynamically typed? |
| 18:54.21 | luke-jr | jase21: dunno, it's just a pain |
| 18:54.25 | MohammadAG | no, it's because it bitches about indentations |
| 18:54.34 | luke-jr | MohammadAG: that mgiht have something to do about it |
| 18:54.46 | luke-jr | fighting against my workflow != easy |
| 18:54.59 | jase21 | Hmm.. these aren't really a problem. |
| 18:55.10 | MohammadAG | so when I have a def inside a class, inside a class, it doesn't fit on my display |
| 18:55.26 | luke-jr | so when I add a try: block, I have to reindent everything |
| 18:56.08 | jase21 | luke-jr: that's why we have better editors and IDEs. |
| 18:56.25 | jase21 | It will do the work for us. |
| 18:57.21 | jase21 | Okay whatever, you guys just stick with C and C++. |
| 18:57.44 | jase21 | is going offline. Have to sleep. |
| 18:57.45 | luke-jr | jase21: s/have/need |
| 18:57.57 | luke-jr | jase21: and it STILL screws up diff/git/svn |
| 18:58.24 | jase21 | ok. |
| 18:58.34 | jase21 | for the time being. |
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| 19:09.24 | Choom | jrocha: vim seems good enough for me |
| 19:10.03 | Choom | Vjjjjjjjj> -- block of code indented |
| 19:10.15 | jrocha | Choom, alright, and why are you telling me that' |
| 19:10.18 | jrocha | ? |
| 19:10.25 | Choom | because I'm sleepy |
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| 19:10.41 | Choom | and meant luke-jr ;) |
| 19:10.56 | jrocha | Choom, no problem |
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| 19:14.58 | TiagoTiago | hm, interesting, for some reason the SIP plugin was choosing the conection from Hamachi instead of the WiFi connection |
| 19:15.34 | GAN900 | Tee hee |
| 19:15.37 | GAN900 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=892520 |
| 19:17.31 | TiagoTiago | is that for real? |
| 19:21.05 | RST38h | reMOO |
| 19:22.11 | RST38h | Another satisfied nokia customer! |
| 19:22.27 | luke-jr | Choom: that makes it work with diff/git/svn? |
| 19:23.04 | RST38h | Wait, more,many more satisfied nokia customers in this thread! |
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| 19:28.55 | MohammadAG | sigh |
| 19:29.06 | MohammadAG | connects laptop to HDTV to see all of Qt Designer's window |
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| 19:32.10 | timeless_xchat | anyone here use office communicator on their n900? |
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| 19:49.07 | pupnik | danramos is a dedicated troll |
| 19:49.34 | RST38h | who isn't nowadays? |
| 19:50.15 | Choom | luke-jr: if you're using vim you can configure it to homogenize whitespace and use custom indentation |
| 19:51.34 | GAN900 | He's particularly irrational in his approach, though. |
| 19:51.43 | nox- | moin |
| 19:52.53 | MohammadAG | RST38h, infobot |
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| 19:58.44 | luke-jr | Choom: wtf does that mean? |
| 20:02.16 | Choom | it means you can set up vim to replace tabs with white space as well as configure the way you indent your own code so that it doesn't cause diff-related issues |
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| 20:03.01 | gpreddy | ebkit |
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| 20:24.56 | trx | If anyone cares to check it out, here is my editor, still working on it, and have lots of more stuff to add.. so far basic editor options, plus, code highlighting, code folding, ability to open multiple files in the same time : http://www.devbin.org/txpad |
| 20:25.23 | trx | its compiled for arm |
| 20:25.35 | trx | so test it on your device |
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| 20:29.18 | lcuk | trx |
| 20:29.33 | lcuk | put it on extras-devel with source etc |
| 20:29.47 | lcuk | then we can use it to edit its own code |
| 20:29.54 | lcuk | :) and your editor has a purpose |
| 20:30.03 | lcuk | did you also build it on the device itself? |
| 20:31.56 | trx | no, im using lazarus on my pc to compile |
| 20:32.14 | trx | i will put it in extras |
| 20:32.21 | trx | as soon as i add some more stuff |
| 20:32.31 | trx | and figure out how to put it in repo :P |
| 20:32.38 | trx | have you checked it out? |
| 20:33.08 | lcuk | nope |
| 20:33.14 | lcuk | wont run random binaries from the net |
| 20:33.22 | lcuk | and considering its a source code editor |
| 20:33.33 | lcuk | it makes sense to offer some source to edit |
| 20:34.01 | trx | yeah |
| 20:34.01 | lcuk | what is lazarus? |
| 20:34.23 | trx | its an IDE for freepascal |
| 20:34.48 | lcuk | that generates arm binaries? |
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| 20:35.11 | trx | it can generate binaries for anything |
| 20:35.15 | lcuk | what about dependency resolution ? |
| 20:35.17 | trx | (well, allmost :) ) |
| 20:35.22 | MohammadAG | makes lcuk a binary to rm -rf / |
| 20:35.39 | lcuk | oooh nice MohammadAG |
| 20:35.41 | MohammadAG | lcuk, here's a binary that gives you unlimited bacon *waits* |
| 20:35.47 | lardman|home | ieatlint: I've just heard that pdf417 isn't working in ZBar yet, so you might need to look at one of the dedicated pdf417 decoders that exist |
| 20:35.51 | lcuk | before I run it will you just test it on yourside :P |
| 20:35.56 | MohammadAG | yeah sure |
| 20:35.59 | MohammadAG | unmounts / |
| 20:36.00 | trx | lcuk dependency resolution? |
| 20:36.04 | MohammadAG | lcuk, working fine |
| 20:36.14 | lcuk | trx, normally theres dependencies |
| 20:36.18 | lcuk | for libraries you are using |
| 20:36.22 | lcuk | MohammadAG, cool |
| 20:36.24 | MohammadAG | actually, no, missing libs |
| 20:36.29 | MohammadAG | makes a chroot and runs it there |
| 20:36.37 | MohammadAG | lcuk, it's closed source, will you run it? |
| 20:36.46 | lcuk | not from you |
| 20:36.54 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 20:37.17 | trx | i use some libs from the sdk |
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| 20:37.52 | trx | and SynEdit engine for "text editor" |
| 20:37.53 | lcuk | PROCEDURE whoa(): |
| 20:37.54 | lcuk | BEGIN |
| 20:38.19 | trx | anyways, they are all open source |
| 20:38.42 | lcuk | nods |
| 20:39.11 | lcuk | bigger question, can you actually make it do compilation on device |
| 20:39.52 | trx | prolly just using fpc |
| 20:40.03 | trx | but ive never done that.. |
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| 20:41.40 | lcuk | trx, pygtkeditor (and its followup) were self created on the device to help khertan write his python apps on the go |
| 20:42.21 | RST38h | "A Baltimore construction worker was charged Wednesday with plotting to blow up a military recruiting station in Maryland after the FBI learned of his radical leanings on Facebook, joined his plot and supplied him with a fake car bomb that he tried to detonate" |
| 20:42.22 | trx | thats cool |
| 20:42.25 | RST38h | Fun on Facebook! |
| 20:43.11 | trx | im not all that familliar with linux and lazarus/fpc |
| 20:43.17 | trx | so i cant yet do that |
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| 20:43.21 | trx | i work in Delphi |
| 20:43.27 | trx | on win |
| 20:43.45 | lcuk | RST38h, o_O |
| 20:49.47 | pupnik | RST38h: maybe the fbi should make an online http://bombemporium.com |
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| 20:52.42 | pupnik | omap36xx looks to have wonderful batter life |
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| 20:55.10 | SpeedEvil | I don't see the fundamental problems with the current one. |
| 20:55.14 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~trumee@nat76.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 20:55.18 | SpeedEvil | It's more software issues. |
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| 20:56.39 | NooBmonk3y | blinks |
| 20:57.00 | trumee | Damn. My ISP has switched off its 2g signal. No other choice apart from 3g |
| 20:57.00 | trumee | Three UK has started sucking now. |
| 20:58.11 | *** join/#maemo jukey (~jukey@brln-4db961b0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:58.27 | trumee | NooBmonk3y, Spoke to their customer service. they said 2g has been switched off :( |
| 20:58.33 | *** part/#maemo jukey (~jukey@brln-4db961b0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:58.41 | NooBmonk3y | is confused |
| 20:58.44 | NooBmonk3y | who what where when why |
| 20:58.45 | trumee | cant believe it since 3g is crappy indoors. |
| 20:59.35 | trumee | they say i am in a good 3g signal area which is definitely not the case |
| 20:59.42 | NooBmonk3y | so they turned off 2g? |
| 20:59.44 | NooBmonk3y | wtf? |
| 21:00.00 | trumee | yes!l!!!! pigs |
| 21:01.01 | trumee | funny thing is that their coverage checker also says poor 3g signal indoors. |
| 21:01.07 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@81-234-249-242-no52.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:01.13 | *** join/#maemo jukey (~jukey@brln-4db961b0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:01.23 | *** part/#maemo jukey (~jukey@brln-4db961b0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:02.02 | alterego | Interesting |
| 21:02.13 | *** join/#maemo rblank (~rblank@83.219.114.94) |
| 21:02.33 | trumee | i have complained but dont have high hopes. |
| 21:03.44 | GAN900 | SpeedEvil, I'll take a process shrink, though. |
| 21:03.52 | SpeedEvil | GAN900: sure |
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| 21:05.55 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B490E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:06.38 | NooBmonk3y | random for a company to turn of 2g?! |
| 21:06.41 | NooBmonk3y | off* |
| 21:07.44 | GAN900 | SpeedEvil, I do agree, though. |
| 21:07.50 | GAN900 | Software is the bigger issue |
| 21:08.29 | SpeedEvil | NooBmonk3y: Not really - from memory 3 gets their 2G by buying capacity off someone else. |
| 21:08.40 | SpeedEvil | This means that they have to pay extra |
| 21:08.43 | NooBmonk3y | true SpeedEvil |
| 21:08.49 | NooBmonk3y | but still odd to just turn it off |
| 21:08.58 | NooBmonk3y | i'd understand swapping to use another supplier |
| 21:09.02 | NooBmonk3y | 2g is still defacto tbh |
| 21:09.15 | NooBmonk3y | if there was only 3g near me i'd be buggered for 30 miles lol |
| 21:09.31 | SpeedEvil | NooBmonk3y: you're in the UK> |
| 21:09.34 | SpeedEvil | umm |
| 21:09.35 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:09.38 | NooBmonk3y | yup |
| 21:09.40 | lcuk | i thought gravity was pretty much fixed at 1g |
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| 21:09.47 | NooBmonk3y | lcuk, you sure? |
| 21:09.52 | SpeedEvil | If you do not make vmany voice calls, i suggest t-mobile PAYG |
| 21:09.56 | lcuk | around these parts |
| 21:09.57 | NooBmonk3y | lcuk, i hear in australia, you fall upwards |
| 21:10.04 | lcuk | o_O |
| 21:10.06 | SpeedEvil | With 6-mo internet boosters @ 1G/mo |
| 21:10.09 | SpeedEvil | If that works for you |
| 21:10.23 | NooBmonk3y | not bad, but i'm on contract as i can never afford the phone price up front |
| 21:10.24 | SpeedEvil | 3 quid/mo internet = win |
| 21:10.35 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 21:11.06 | NooBmonk3y | will be starting to look at my next device in jan feb , woooop :) |
| 21:11.07 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, does that also have SMS allowance? |
| 21:11.12 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: no |
| 21:11.17 | SpeedEvil | lucent: 10p/each IIRC |
| 21:11.21 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: |
| 21:11.31 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Well - I think if you top it up every month, then yes. |
| 21:11.31 | lcuk | eek |
| 21:11.33 | SpeedEvil | But I don't |
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| 21:11.51 | *** join/#maemo wolf^ (wolf@pld-linux/wolf) |
| 21:11.58 | lcuk | i top up £15 a month PAYG with O2 |
| 21:12.05 | lcuk | for calls |
| 21:12.19 | lcuk | and with that I have SMS and data bolton |
| 21:12.25 | SpeedEvil | I have made maybe 2 quids of calls in a year and a bit |
| 21:12.31 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 21:12.45 | NooBmonk3y | lol SpeedEvil me too, use about 20 mins a month outta my 600 free lol |
| 21:12.51 | NooBmonk3y | and probably 30 texts tops |
| 21:12.58 | NooBmonk3y | but could easily use 3+g of data :| |
| 21:13.12 | MohammadAG | alterego, what's the radio-button like thingy you added in Columbus's QMenuBar? |
| 21:13.13 | NooBmonk3y | so i'm v carefull with my vodafone one lol |
| 21:13.39 | NooBmonk3y | is a little lucky, as my lovely vodafone account manager at work, has managed to boost my 500mb limit ;) hehehe |
| 21:13.45 | lcuk | calls from home mostly but keeps mob for other uses |
| 21:14.05 | SpeedEvil | NooBmonk3y: yeah - t-mobile PAYG is very good value for those that don't call or text much, but want 1G/mo internet |
| 21:14.11 | MohammadAG | never uses home phone |
| 21:14.27 | MohammadAG | I hate monochrome orange-lit displays |
| 21:14.47 | lcuk | your home phone has a display *grin* |
| 21:15.08 | lcuk | still recalls rotary dial |
| 21:15.12 | alterego | MohammadAG: It's an action group |
| 21:15.13 | NooBmonk3y | grins |
| 21:15.32 | alterego | Someone do a rotary dialoer application :D |
| 21:15.36 | alterego | Apple fags would love that! :D |
| 21:15.37 | MohammadAG | alterego, so it's not maemo-specific? |
| 21:15.47 | alterego | MohammadAG: it's not maemo specific no. |
| 21:15.55 | MohammadAG | alterego, should be easy with Qt |
| 21:15.57 | alterego | But it is maemo specific how its' rendered. |
| 21:16.05 | alterego | Very, hang on I'll pastie the code. |
| 21:16.30 | trumee | lcuk, £15/mo. unlimited sms, 1GB internet, 300 minutes. 1month contract |
| 21:16.46 | trumee | cant get a better deal than this. |
| 21:17.13 | lcuk | o2 offered me home broadband too recently |
| 21:17.42 | trumee | i am quite happy with Virgin Media, dislike adsl |
| 21:17.43 | lcuk | which was fun but incompatible and slower than cable |
| 21:17.44 | alterego | MohammadAG: http://pastie.org/1363382 |
| 21:18.03 | trumee | lcuk ++ |
| 21:18.06 | alterego | It's the top bit. |
| 21:18.29 | alterego | Ignore my loop, just expand that to one cycle per item you want there. |
| 21:18.33 | alterego | There's a maximum of four. |
| 21:19.29 | MohammadAG | alterego, thanks :) |
| 21:20.36 | alterego | MohammadAG: you realise if you keep asking for examples you could gain the entire source of columbus ;) |
| 21:21.07 | lcuk | alterego, it would just be simpler on a git repo |
| 21:21.11 | MohammadAG | alterego, I'm already putting the pieces together :P |
| 21:21.17 | MohammadAG | lcuk, it's not FOSS |
| 21:21.53 | lcuk | yeah |
| 21:22.03 | alterego | Yet |
| 21:22.10 | alterego | It will be, I've finally decided ;) |
| 21:22.33 | alterego | Just making bluetooth streaming a bit more user friendly, then I'll upload it to extras |
| 21:22.59 | alterego | (basically a device selector instead of having to enter the bluetooth device address specifically for client connections) |
| 21:23.30 | alterego | Oh, and automatic bluetooth enabling when required. |
| 21:23.35 | alterego | Well, prompting to enable :D |
| 21:25.13 | MohammadAG | yay \o/ |
| 21:25.21 | lcuk | \o/ |
| 21:26.22 | MohammadAG | alterego, just force enabling, it won't bring down planes, I promise |
| 21:26.30 | MohammadAG | enable it* |
| 21:26.40 | MohammadAG | wonders what CONFIG_DEFAULT_DISPLAY_VIEW is in alterego's code |
| 21:28.16 | alterego | Oh, that's just a number. |
| 21:28.51 | alterego | I made columbus, a while ago, remember what view you were last using, so when you restarted it, it'd auto switch to that view. |
| 21:28.58 | alterego | That's basically me disabling it. |
| 21:29.29 | alterego | I found it annoying :D |
| 21:29.31 | GAN900 | Haha |
| 21:29.50 | GAN900 | So, my buddy's been shopping for a new car. |
| 21:30.59 | MohammadAG | lol alterego |
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| 21:34.21 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~cacao@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 21:34.22 | alterego | Crap, I can't even be bothered to add device lists. |
| 21:34.33 | *** join/#maemo qhubekela (~knoppix@41.215.145.1) |
| 21:34.39 | alterego | I might just release it now and work more on it some other time. |
| 21:36.46 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@201-93-213-76.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:36.50 | alterego | Yeah, balls to it, I'll just sanitize the source and package it tomorrow. |
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| 21:40.33 | GAN900 | Toyota dealership had a mint 07 Sienna with 18k on it. |
| 21:40.46 | GAN900 | Some minister came in and "bought" it. |
| 21:40.59 | GAN900 | But intentionally screwed up the financing |
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| 21:41.22 | GAN900 | so he's been driving around in it for a week and the dealership been asking for it back. |
| 21:41.36 | GAN900 | They didn't want to give it back, so they totalled it instead. |
| 21:42.28 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ&1&fmt=18 vmware shows Nokia N800 running Android and Windows CE - simultaneously. |
| 21:43.05 | alterego | GAN900: hah, that's hilarious |
| 21:43.09 | lcuk | GAN900, why would someone in a high profile role intentionally screw up financing |
| 21:43.16 | RST38h | GAN900: A true believer, indeed |
| 21:43.20 | lcuk | ie, do not attribute to malice |
| 21:46.09 | nid0 | pupnik: odd that she keeps describing it as a phone throughout the demo though, and they talk about calls coming in |
| 21:47.28 | pupnik | lol |
| 21:47.37 | pupnik | 3d eye tracking UI for mobile phones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SImOIMcMlk&feature=related |
| 21:48.23 | pupnik | nid0: any luck with that package? |
| 21:49.08 | MohammadAG | pupnik, seen that on the N900, somewhere |
| 21:49.18 | nid0 | pupnik: yeah, checked with my sis in law, it did finally get put in the post as a parcel at the weekend, and with a return address on it in case it doesnt reach you |
| 21:49.24 | nid0 | also, the sauce is well nice |
| 21:49.35 | MohammadAG | http://johanneskuhlmann.de/blog/2010/04/28/3d-on-the-nokia-n900-through-head-tracking/ |
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| 21:52.17 | pupnik | awesome :) |
| 21:52.33 | pupnik | MohammadAG: imagine running maemo/meego/nitdroid on one device |
| 21:52.35 | alterego | I've been meaning to do that for ages .. |
| 21:52.49 | alterego | (head tracking that is) |
| 21:52.51 | MohammadAG | pupnik, why imagine? |
| 21:53.21 | luke-jr | pupnik: Maemo is dead. |
| 21:53.21 | MohammadAG | you can get easy meego if you feel like spending an hour or so making scripts |
| 21:53.24 | pupnik | i'd buy vmware for n900 |
| 21:53.32 | luke-jr | pupnik: VMWare is slow |
| 21:53.32 | MohammadAG | luke-jr, far from dead* |
| 21:53.46 | luke-jr | pupnik: if Maemo and Android worked with Linux, you could just use OpenVZ |
| 21:53.48 | pupnik | well, i'd want 512MB ram |
| 21:54.05 | pupnik | mhm |
| 21:54.06 | luke-jr | MohammadAG: far beyond dead* |
| 21:55.00 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-187-194.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 21:55.21 | Venemo_N900 | hi |
| 21:57.43 | jacekowski | to run android on n900 all you have to do is port dalvik to glibc |
| 21:57.48 | jacekowski | and then to X |
| 21:57.56 | jacekowski | don't bother about underlying crap |
| 21:58.58 | luke-jr | you're just talking about Android apps |
| 22:02.21 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@30.21.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
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| 22:13.14 | Venemo_N900 | is it NP-complete to determine whether a graph is planar |
| 22:13.15 | Venemo_N900 | ? |
| 22:13.59 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
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| 22:17.41 | GAN900 | lcuk, you evidently haven't interacted with enough priests. |
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| 22:41.06 | luke-jr | glares at GAN900 |
| 22:41.46 | *** join/#maemo dolp (dolphin@cs181202191.pp.htv.fi) |
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| 22:44.43 | GAN900 | luke-jr, what? :P |
| 22:45.07 | luke-jr | GAN900: slandering clergy |
| 22:50.26 | BCMM | who hasn't? |
| 22:51.01 | *** join/#maemo sougata (~sougata@hoasnet-fe21dd00-40.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 23:07.40 | GAN900 | luke-jr, not as a whole, just they're no less prone to scumbaggery than anybody else. |
| 23:09.09 | GAN900 | luke-jr, let me talk to use about the tax exempt codes they just redid because of all the minister's using it for personal purchases. ;) |
| 23:10.52 | crashanddie_ | GAN900: got the dough? |
| 23:13.38 | GAN900 | crashanddie_, indeed I did, thanks! |
| 23:14.04 | crashanddie_ | thank you |
| 23:17.03 | *** join/#maemo PaulyN900 (~user@pool-72-81-183-125.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:17.20 | MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> crashanddie, crashanddie_ ping |
| 23:17.24 | MohammadAG | fucking freenode |
| 23:17.28 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 23:17.35 | crashanddie_ | oh |
| 23:17.37 | PaulyN900 | hi i think my usb port is broke on n900 |
| 23:17.55 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG: I don't get highlighted if my nickname isn't the first thing on a sentence |
| 23:18.06 | PaulyN900 | any1 using n900 on tmobile |
| 23:18.07 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG: so "hey crashanddie_" wouldn't HL me |
| 23:18.09 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, working portrait mode and list numbering, sorta |
| 23:18.19 | crashanddie_ | screen? |
| 23:20.04 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, first of all, I thought about button positions |
| 23:20.18 | MohammadAG | bottom was awkward, top was too retarded, so I opted for middle |
| 23:20.28 | MohammadAG | I left the labels at the bottom, since you won't be clicking those |
| 23:20.43 | crashanddie_ | sure |
| 23:21.04 | crashanddie_ | so are the buttons horizontal or vertical? |
| 23:21.13 | MohammadAG | making the two widgets for portrait and landscape mode wasn't easy, had to use a 37" HDTV |
| 23:21.17 | MohammadAG | horizontal |
| 23:21.54 | crashanddie_ | how does the volume bar show? |
| 23:21.59 | crashanddie_ | horizontal or vertical? |
| 23:22.09 | MohammadAG | there's a built in one in maemo, so I removed it |
| 23:22.16 | MohammadAG | I was planning for it to be vertical |
| 23:22.23 | MohammadAG | (sorta like Symbian^3) |
| 23:22.23 | crashanddie_ | nha, we need it |
| 23:22.32 | crashanddie_ | I hate having to go to the system menu to lower volume |
| 23:22.41 | MohammadAG | err? |
| 23:22.46 | MohammadAG | you have HW buttons |
| 23:22.57 | crashanddie_ | sucks |
| 23:23.15 | *** join/#maemo dolp (dolphin@cs181202191.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:23.15 | MohammadAG | I'll see about it then, but it's going to be vertical in portrait |
| 23:23.29 | crashanddie_ | yeah that's fine |
| 23:23.48 | crashanddie_ | so you've got the CD picture on top, information on the bottom, and controls in the middle? |
| 23:23.59 | crashanddie_ | and when you hit the vol control button, the slider appears, in vertical mode |
| 23:24.00 | MohammadAG | sec, firefox crashed |
| 23:24.12 | crashanddie_ | possibly covering a bit of the image / labels |
| 23:24.48 | MohammadAG | well, I could add the bar to the layout, so the image actually moves/resizes instead of being covered |
| 23:25.52 | MohammadAG | pixelpipe's being retarded, as always |
| 23:26.24 | MohammadAG | council thread become a troll fair |
| 23:26.28 | MohammadAG | fare eve |
| 23:26.29 | MohammadAG | n |
| 23:27.57 | GAN900 | One of many reasons why we love achipa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=892801&postcount=58 |
| 23:29.22 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I still don't know what happened on that thread that forced me to basically defend qgil |
| 23:31.03 | MohammadAG | I thought he'd be pissed about the Qt implementation using the same UI, but he actually thanked the post with screenshots |
| 23:31.15 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, http://i54.tinypic.com/2jg8853.jpg |
| 23:31.30 | MohammadAG | 76/516 is populated from the list FYI |
| 23:31.51 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I doubt he will react badly to you cloning the Nokia UI. |
| 23:32.04 | javispedro | would be a new low. |
| 23:32.26 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~smooph@e180135253.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:32.38 | javispedro | ah, an answer! |
| 23:32.43 | javispedro | prepares the troll machine |
| 23:32.45 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, song list: http://i54.tinypic.com/4s1nhl.jpg |
| 23:32.54 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG: put the labels about 80px higher, and 30 px more centre |
| 23:33.16 | smooph | DocScrutinizer remember me and my flashing problem because of low battery status? |
| 23:33.28 | MohammadAG | and of course, what cannot be a clone, the main page in portrait mode, http://i51.tinypic.com/2gwi1ip.jpg |
| 23:35.55 | smooph | I flashed my device http://pastebin.ca/2015190 but I still get Installing Software Update Please do not interrupt. |
| 23:36.00 | MohammadAG | my N900's kinda snappy |
| 23:36.06 | smooph | can somebody help me |
| 23:36.17 | MohammadAG | could be because I replaced /usr/libexec/apt-worker with a script echoing crap |
| 23:36.32 | smooph | I want to completely set it back to shipping condition |
| 23:37.29 | *** join/#maemo viggi (~viggi@cs181168042.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:37.31 | MohammadAG | Settings > clear device |
| 23:37.49 | *** join/#maemo smooph1 (~smooph@e180137184.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:37.58 | smooph1 | is it not the correct flashing command? |
| 23:38.26 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, :P http://i53.tinypic.com/25ew96a.jpg |
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| 23:40.40 | timeless_mbp | hey |
| 23:40.53 | timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ QDateTime? :) |
| 23:43.05 | crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: wouldn't call myself familiar, but I dated the bitch a couple times |
| 23:43.16 | timeless_mbp | i'll take that |
| 23:44.42 | timeless_mbp | crashanddie_: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/882667 sources + mods; http://pastebin.mozilla.org/882668 - locals |
| 23:44.43 | crashanddie_ | ask thy question, brethren. |
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| 23:45.01 | timeless_mbp | what would 49710 days be, and where would it come from? |
| 23:45.11 | javispedro | GAN900: (re atilla's post) you gotta love google's hatred of the affero gpl |
| 23:45.44 | MohammadAG | the more code I add to Qt, the more the binary size decreases |
| 23:45.50 | MohammadAG | wtf is with that ^ |
| 23:46.04 | MohammadAG | I started at 2.5MBs, then 2.0, then 1.5, now it's 1.1MBs |
| 23:47.11 | crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: 49710 days = 4,294,944,000 seconds |
| 23:47.27 | timeless_mbp | ok... |
| 23:47.33 | crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: 32bit int maximum: 4,294,967,295 |
| 23:47.39 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 23:47.41 | timeless_mbp | cute |
| 23:48.11 | crashanddie_ | just a thought |
| 23:48.15 | timeless_mbp | yeah, i'll buy that |
| 23:48.17 | timeless_mbp | ok, so... |
| 23:48.27 | timeless_mbp | any idea where that would come from? |
| 23:48.47 | crashanddie_ | i dunno, what's your code do? |
| 23:49.17 | timeless_mbp | it shows a progress meter and tells me time remaining |
| 23:49.51 | javispedro | hum |
| 23:49.55 | javispedro | what are you trying to do there? |
| 23:49.56 | javispedro | I mean |
| 23:50.03 | javispedro | refTime.setTime_t(0) does ... ? |
| 23:50.07 | timeless_mbp | the old code would show 1s, ... 55s |
| 23:50.12 | timeless_mbp | after 55s, it'd show 0 mins |
| 23:50.17 | timeless_mbp | which is um.. unfortunate |
| 23:50.26 | timeless_mbp | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qdatetime.html#setTime_t |
| 23:50.33 | timeless_mbp | (0) sets the date to 1970 |
| 23:50.34 | javispedro | so you're setting that to the unix epoch |
| 23:50.43 | timeless_mbp | note: this isn't my code |
| 23:50.45 | javispedro | and then counting days until god knows when? |
| 23:50.59 | javispedro | ah |
| 23:51.11 | timeless_mbp | the delta is mine, but it isn't working |
| 23:51.48 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, simple answer, wait the 136 years or so for your download to finish :P |
| 23:52.01 | timeless_mbp | thanks |
| 23:52.10 | lcuk | :D |
| 23:52.38 | timeless_mbp | note: not a download |
| 23:52.46 | timeless_mbp | technically it's an upload |
| 23:52.55 | timeless_mbp | about 1gb from local disk to ram |
| 23:53.10 | javispedro | maybe GetTimeRemaining() returns time in nanoseconds in a uint64_t =) |
| 23:53.18 | crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: what's the value of newTime? |
| 23:54.09 | timeless_mbp | crashanddie_: dunno? |
| 23:54.17 | timeless_mbp | info locals doesn't show it (you have that) |
| 23:54.22 | crashanddie_ | aye |
| 23:54.33 | crashanddie_ | but it's a local var, why doesn't it show up? |
| 23:54.38 | timeless_mbp | optimizers... |
| 23:54.40 | javispedro | it does show time, though |
| 23:54.54 | javispedro | "time", I mean. |
| 23:55.03 | javispedro | and the value makes no sense |
| 23:56.01 | javispedro | timeless_mbp: hey, I was joking, but the value seems to be a uint64_t for some reason |
| 23:56.08 | javispedro | so that could be even right |
| 23:56.12 | crashanddie_ | methinks it's your days value that's f'd up |
| 23:56.18 | crashanddie_ | int days = refTime.daysTo(time); |
| 23:56.28 | crashanddie_ | int hours = time.addDays(-days).time().hour(); |
| 23:56.37 | crashanddie_ | QString strDays = VBoxGlobal::daysToString(days); |
| 23:57.25 | timeless_mbp | wonders where CProgress comes from |
| 23:57.29 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, which language is this and can that return -ve "m_progress.GetTimeRemaining();" which is kinda what you are seeing |
| 23:57.58 | timeless_mbp | call m_progress.GetTimeRemaining() |
| 23:57.59 | timeless_mbp | $10 = -1 |
| 23:58.08 | javispedro | tadaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| 23:58.15 | javispedro | play the sad violins no |
| 23:58.16 | javispedro | w |
| 23:58.17 | timeless_mbp | gives lcuk a prize |
| 23:58.29 | timeless_mbp | ok, so clearly the code shouldn't do anything for that case |
| 23:58.32 | lcuk | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/3.0/qdatetime.html#setTime_t |
| 23:58.37 | lcuk | notice it takes a uint |
| 23:58.42 | lcuk | in the function you use it for later |
| 23:58.58 | javispedro | oh, taking an int is stupid on Qt's part. |
| 23:59.06 | crashanddie_ | hey, I found the 32bit overflow thing on first look |
| 23:59.12 | crashanddie_ | and I'm not getting a prize? :( |
| 23:59.13 | lcuk | ignoring the warning on build time ;) |
| 23:59.28 | javispedro | haven't they read about the year2038 effect? ;) |
