| 00:00.45 | alterego | But I don't think you're thinking clearly if you think that multiple apps playing around with the same system config file wont screw something up eventually. |
| 00:01.27 | javispedro | for example what happened on maemo is the app "owning" the config file getting updated in a PR release and overwriting the "shared" config file |
| 00:01.33 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh. So your alternative was what exactly? discarding that file so nobody else can play with it? |
| 00:02.33 | alterego | No, my alternative was to not use lirc or that file so I don't have to second guess what others' do or don't do with it. |
| 00:02.49 | DocScrutinizer | brilliant |
| 00:03.31 | alterego | Would you rather I spent my time promoting the use of a .d approach? Is that why you're being bitchy? :P |
| 00:05.15 | alterego | It would take more time and effort for me to do that. |
| 00:05.40 | alterego | And I don't see what's wrong with my approach. Except you're opinion, obviously. |
| 00:06.24 | DocScrutinizer | oh yeah. The best solutions always were born from the notion to avoid all dispensible pondering |
| 00:07.33 | alterego | So, what is your issue with my approach? |
| 00:07.50 | javispedro | watches MohammadAG being an optimist on tmo |
| 00:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | of course your solution has not portability problems - you can port it to whatever system/platform you like. It also has no compatibility issues - it simply creates a new world where there are no incompatible things allowed |
| 00:09.02 | alterego | m'hmm |
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| 00:09.49 | Munkiii | forgot about this window, it was quiet before. |
| 00:10.03 | Munkiii | yes, i meant internet radio bookmark files |
| 00:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | it's a shiny new world. Hope you like it, and maybe you find somebody to share it with - not me though, I like to keep what I got. And I like to keep my freedom |
| 00:10.18 | alterego | Okay, how about I submit a patch to lirc making irsend capable of sending arbitrary commands, without a config file. |
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| 00:10.31 | DocScrutinizer | good idea |
| 00:10.39 | DocScrutinizer | no sarcasm this time |
| 00:10.44 | alterego | :P |
| 00:10.44 | Munkiii | because; i wanted to use Alarmed to turn on my radio in the morning. |
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| 00:10.59 | MohammadAG | smiles at javispedro |
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| 00:11.02 | alterego | I'm sorry, I just get into a lazy mindset sometimes. |
| 00:11.15 | Munkiii | anybody know how i would do this? |
| 00:11.15 | alterego | MohammadAG: what thread are you loving up now? |
| 00:12.13 | MohammadAG | alterego, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=891018#post891018 I think :P |
| 00:12.24 | javispedro | wouldn't it be wonderful to wake up some day and find the entire source code of all maemo user applications on a nice tarball at your feet? |
| 00:12.51 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: for this patch you get all the support I'm able to offer |
| 00:12.57 | javispedro | unfortunately, the entire quim's post reads like a 72pt NO to me. |
| 00:13.23 | BCMM | javispedro: that might be kinda terrifying. |
| 00:13.28 | MohammadAG | I swear it looked bigger than 72pt |
| 00:13.40 | javispedro | nevertheless, no surprises here. |
| 00:13.51 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: it brings another problem though, I still need a strategy for my app :P |
| 00:14.05 | alterego | Which I wanted to upload to extras tomorrow. |
| 00:14.31 | MohammadAG | javispedro, I'm surprised Nokia's keeping crappy components closed, and opening up hildon-desktop |
| 00:14.41 | MohammadAG | or actually, all of hildon |
| 00:14.49 | javispedro | makes sense |
| 00:15.02 | MohammadAG | hildon > mediaplayer |
| 00:15.08 | MohammadAG | I'm sure it took longer to code |
| 00:15.10 | alterego | hildon was always supposed to be open |
| 00:15.11 | javispedro | exactly |
| 00:15.35 | javispedro | it has costed me more than a year but I think i'm finally starting to understand what's this all about... |
| 00:15.43 | javispedro | but wouldn't be able to explain it =) |
| 00:15.45 | MohammadAG | wasn't osso* supposed to be open too? |
| 00:16.05 | alterego | Nope, never |
| 00:16.06 | BCMM | what's the big deal with mediaplayer? isn't it easily replaced by porting an existing, nicer media player? |
| 00:16.14 | alterego | osso was just a group name :P |
| 00:16.22 | MohammadAG | BCMM, name one |
| 00:16.28 | javispedro | BCMM: how to say.. there's a reason I do not use kde or gnome as my daily OS. |
| 00:16.37 | javispedro | (on the N900, that is) |
| 00:16.38 | BCMM | hmm, fair enough |
| 00:16.53 | javispedro | in fact |
| 00:17.00 | MohammadAG | rythmbox is cool, though I doubt it can run on the N900 |
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| 00:17.09 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (explain) start a mind-dump |
| 00:17.12 | MohammadAG | visualizations in it crash on an old desktop |
| 00:17.16 | DocScrutinizer | maybe we get it |
| 00:17.18 | javispedro | there must be a reason I'm here and not #openmoko =) |
| 00:17.27 | alterego | It's been said that replacing the media player and making it functionally identical and at least asthetically similar would be easy. |
| 00:17.48 | javispedro | now repeat for the rest of the applications. |
| 00:17.55 | MohammadAG | alterego, with tracker support? :P |
| 00:17.59 | alterego | But what is the point if our base platform is going to stagnate and not ever get updated? |
| 00:18.01 | trumee | DocScrutinizer, good news for sip users. MWI arrived in telepathy-sip. |
| 00:18.12 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 00:18.17 | javispedro | and don't understimate them; meego handset would me like a 200% more usable if it had, dunno, a proper notetaking app. |
| 00:18.24 | javispedro | or a working sms app ;) |
| 00:18.41 | MohammadAG | or a working * |
| 00:19.26 | alterego | I just don't see much point in replacing core maemo apps without us being able to maintain the core platform, which is why I'm doing meego :P |
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| 00:20.01 | javispedro | what is the core platform |
| 00:20.08 | MohammadAG | what core platform? |
| 00:20.12 | MohammadAG | hildon is open |
| 00:20.18 | MohammadAG | feel free to write an mce alternative |
| 00:20.23 | MohammadAG | kernel is open |
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| 00:20.25 | javispedro | In fact I'd kill the distro. |
| 00:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | esp what closed source core platform? |
| 00:20.30 | MohammadAG | jrbme is on track |
| 00:20.32 | alterego | MeeGo terminology I guess, kernel and base system |
| 00:20.43 | MohammadAG | kernel is 100% open |
| 00:20.55 | DocScrutinizer | mce is a PITA, admittedly |
| 00:21.01 | javispedro | and as for the interesting core stuff that isn't open, it isn't open on Meego either. |
| 00:21.10 | javispedro | not for the N900 port currently, that is. |
| 00:21.11 | DocScrutinizer | mce is THE ugly wart in maemo now |
| 00:21.30 | MohammadAG | and the phone UI |
| 00:21.31 | javispedro | mce just does something that on the 770 nit times no oss application did |
| 00:21.33 | alterego | So, are you saying we could build an up-to-date image for the N900 with full h/w support? I don't think so. |
| 00:21.43 | MohammadAG | would it be hard to make flip to silent configurable? |
| 00:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: phone-ui can be replaced, I guess |
| 00:21.54 | DocScrutinizer | mce is really hard to RE |
| 00:22.06 | MohammadAG | it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes, and that's including a coffee break |
| 00:22.10 | alterego | javispedro: I understand that, but at least they have newer versions being built for them when ever they need it :P |
| 00:22.17 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: also I'm talking bout system |
| 00:22.21 | DocScrutinizer | not userland |
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| 00:22.32 | MohammadAG | yeah, got that |
| 00:22.45 | javispedro | alterego: same trap |
| 00:22.46 | MohammadAG | kernel, port 2.6.35, I doubt it's hard to get working on Maemo 5 |
| 00:22.56 | MohammadAG | it's just that I hate MeeGo's way of distributing kernel patches |
| 00:23.04 | MohammadAG | not really understandable without some headache |
| 00:23.16 | alterego | MohammadAG: a lot has changed between 28 and 35 .. |
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| 00:23.42 | MohammadAG | alterego, I know, mce and bme will probably die first |
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| 00:23.51 | MohammadAG | we can get the MeeGo bme, it works properly I guess |
| 00:23.52 | alterego | We'd need updated busybox, udev, and a whole other bunch of junk |
| 00:23.59 | javispedro | busybox? |
| 00:24.00 | MohammadAG | mce, well, there has to be alternative for that |
| 00:24.17 | MohammadAG | err, isn't that userspace? |
| 00:24.25 | DocScrutinizer | meh, we don't need bme |
| 00:24.27 | javispedro | hey, .28 and .36 are different, but I'd say _some_ binary applications would run ;) |
| 00:24.37 | alterego | yes, some |
| 00:24.51 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it doesn't matter. |
| 00:25.04 | alterego | There was a bit of sysfs moving inbetween those two versions thugh |
| 00:25.16 | javispedro | any attempt to forward port half of maemo results in disaster |
| 00:25.28 | javispedro | lots of past examples |
| 00:25.37 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, alwqays this sysfs moving. I still wait for getting a hold to the kernel devels that do that |
| 00:25.40 | alterego | So any apps with hardcoded links to sysfs entries or anything like that may fail. |
| 00:26.29 | alterego | So, basically, we can't just boot up on a new kernel and module set. |
| 00:26.33 | DocScrutinizer | that's what we've seen on every distro, for every major kernel version update |
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| 00:26.56 | alterego | The rootfs would need refreshing too. |
| 00:26.58 | javispedro | (in fact I'd say I've find the kernel behaviour quite ultra conservative on this regard) |
| 00:27.06 | javispedro | *found |
| 00:27.47 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I'm particularly talking about OE here |
| 00:27.50 | alterego | exactly, so, igo meego :P |
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| 00:28.30 | alterego | I develop apps for me, :) |
| 00:29.23 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs#GTA02_Kernel_sysfs_highlights_for_kernel_2.6.28 |
| 00:29.49 | alterego | So, back to my problem. How can I distribute my app to play nice in lirc land whilst we wait for a ne lirc version with arb command support? |
| 00:29.59 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: O.o |
| 00:31.02 | DocScrutinizer | yo |
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| 00:31.32 | javispedro | from reading that though, there was a clear reason for the madness |
| 00:31.45 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: hah, that's also mean a lot of wiki.maemo.org edits for all the sysfs path changes too ;) |
| 00:31.52 | javispedro | you (or board kernel dev) changed the device tree |
| 00:32.20 | DocScrutinizer | I dunno whom to bash - the original authors for choosing a wrong path, ot the patch authors for breaking the paths without proper rationale |
| 00:32.29 | javispedro | and whoever rewrote the sysfs paths on that wiki was smart enough to reference them by class instead of device tree path |
| 00:32.34 | alterego | I wonder how different meego sysfs is to maemos' I'll have to check that tomorrow. |
| 00:33.23 | alterego | Urgh, who uses device path ... |
| 00:33.50 | javispedro | someone who believed the platform devices would always hang from the platform driver |
| 00:34.12 | javispedro | (imho correctly. osx/xnu here has multiple trees depending on which PoV: logical, power, etc. which would have helped here) |
| 00:34.38 | MohammadAG | sort of a noobish question but |
| 00:34.50 | MohammadAG | why does sysfs have a lot of infinite loop? |
| 00:35.12 | MohammadAG | loops even |
| 00:35.17 | alterego | MohammadAG: that's just how it is :P |
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| 00:35.52 | alterego | It's so devices can reference the bus they're on which also references the devices, which reference the bus ..... |
| 00:35.56 | DocScrutinizer | for the best of my understanding, sysfs was never meant to be accessed directly by userland though |
| 00:36.39 | javispedro | it was -- the issue is the typical oss one |
| 00:36.41 | alterego | sysfs is basically a file system that allows you to view kernel data structures in a logical UNIX like way. |
| 00:37.28 | javispedro | you see, a developer makes an interface for his device, and exports it on sysfs. he adds "i'm still thinking on this, give me some time to finish it", thinking one month or two. |
| 00:37.31 | alterego | So you get back references like you do in the structs that define the data you're looking at in the kernel. |
| 00:37.53 | DocScrutinizer | I've seen quite some drivers that implement proper /dev/* entries for /sys/* |
| 00:37.56 | javispedro | then some distro which can't wait to offer XXXX compatibility starts using the interface |
| 00:38.17 | javispedro | and a new crapsack is born |
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| 00:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | probably for userland the correct approach to access sysfs would be to consider path a tuple of properties, and do a find /sysfs -name "*display*" -a -name "*LCD*" -a -name "*brightness" |
| 00:43.05 | javispedro | sounds uglier ;) |
| 00:43.25 | javispedro | apply the usual rule of computer science: add another abstraction layer |
| 00:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | hehehehe |
| 00:43.40 | javispedro | it alwaaaaaaaaaays works ;) |
| 00:44.18 | nox- | you talking about sysctl? :) |
| 00:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | sysfs |
| 00:44.51 | nox- | (hm altho i think sysctl existed first...) |
| 00:44.53 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: I think what I'll do in the time being is: create include (like irreco), check its' there on startup etc. |
| 00:45.28 | alterego | To ensure my remote config doesn't clash with others', I'll tage the remotes internal config name with my application name. |
| 00:45.37 | alterego | Or maybe vendor tag. |
| 00:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | good plan, esp since e.g irreco starts lircd by calling /etc/init.d/lircd start |
| 00:45.54 | alterego | I know. |
| 00:46.02 | alterego | I'll have to do that too. |
| 00:46.55 | alterego | Guess what thogh! Whatever package setup sudo access for lirc, I think it's the lirc package itself, writes direct to sudoers and doesn't use .d or update-sudoers ... |
| 00:47.04 | alterego | what a fucking suprise ;) |
| 00:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 00:47.29 | javispedro | hm |
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| 00:47.47 | javispedro | i'm a heavy update-sudoers user and yet irreco never stopped working for me |
| 00:47.52 | javispedro | so whatever it does is non-important |
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| 00:48.06 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, strange |
| 00:48.39 | alterego | javispedro: I don't know if that script ignores statements outside it's own begin/end comments .. |
| 00:48.50 | javispedro | letmetest |
| 00:48.54 | alterego | Which it might do .. |
| 00:48.55 | DocScrutinizer | maybe it doesn't use update-sudoers but instead writes both an append to /etc/sudoers and a file to sudoers.d/ |
| 00:49.11 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: no entry in .d .. |
| 00:49.19 | DocScrutinizer | hmm :-/ |
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| 00:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | correct |
| 00:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# grep lirc /etc/sudoers |
| 00:51.24 | DocScrutinizer | user ALL = NOPASSWD: /etc/init.d/lirc reload |
| 00:51.25 | DocScrutinizer | ... |
| 00:51.33 | javispedro | it does keep stuff outside start/end indeed |
| 00:51.36 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# grep lirc /etc/sudoers.d/* |
| 00:51.38 | DocScrutinizer | NULL |
| 00:51.40 | javispedro | it puts it on the end of the file |
| 00:51.59 | alterego | javispedro: neat but its' still a package bug imo ;) |
| 00:52.10 | javispedro | as usual I have some maemo stuff outside .d |
| 00:52.11 | DocScrutinizer | it's a mega bug |
| 00:52.39 | alterego | I wonder how it removes its' entries on removal :D |
| 00:52.39 | DocScrutinizer | though I consider update-sudoers a fsckng braindamaged concept as well |
| 00:52.55 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: why? |
| 00:52.57 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I don't. Actually it is "the debian way" |
| 00:53.22 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: If you ever tab-completed update- on a debian system as root, you'll see lots, lots and lots of similar utilities |
| 00:53.39 | DocScrutinizer | it's BS to check correctness of CONFIG(!!) files on every boot |
| 00:53.54 | javispedro | it does? |
| 00:54.07 | javispedro | update-sudoers is meant to be run at a package's postinst script |
| 00:54.09 | javispedro | not a boot time |
| 00:54.20 | DocScrutinizer | and it's no problem to make sure you have only correct sudoers.d/* files, on creation/edit time |
| 00:54.53 | alterego | Yeah not sure about boot time. |
| 00:55.03 | alterego | I've always liked the .d pproach ... |
| 00:55.54 | DocScrutinizer | sure, and sudo has an include statement for that |
| 00:55.57 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 00:56.13 | javispedro | HAH! |
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| 00:56.16 | javispedro | gotya DocScrutinizer |
| 00:56.26 | javispedro | sudo might, but not the ages-old version Maemo has ;) |
| 00:56.34 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: like, include sudoers.d/* ? |
| 00:56.38 | DocScrutinizer | so fsckit |
| 00:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | update sudo instead of using this abomination called update-sudoers |
| 00:57.08 | javispedro | it was probably created in 770 times |
| 00:57.09 | alterego | Heh |
| 00:57.10 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: yep |
| 00:57.15 | alterego | Neat |
| 00:57.21 | javispedro | and then they applied the "it works don't touch it" rule |
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| 01:00.02 | alterego | Nice, my simple qml app takes 10% memory |
| 01:00.18 | alterego | That's the same as my quite large columbus app ... |
| 01:00.22 | javispedro | measured with? |
| 01:00.26 | alterego | top |
| 01:00.30 | javispedro | discard that |
| 01:00.37 | alterego | Guessing its' mostly Qt |
| 01:00.38 | DocScrutinizer | It is possible to include other sudoers files from within the sudoers file currently being parsed using the #include and #includedir directives. |
| 01:00.49 | DocScrutinizer | (from man sudoers) |
| 01:00.51 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: introduce in sudo 1.7.something |
| 01:00.54 | javispedro | *introduced |
| 01:01.05 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: while Maemo's one is 1.6.8 |
| 01:01.12 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 01:01.18 | javispedro | I know this from heart, told ya I'm a heavy update-sudoers user.. |
| 01:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | taking pride in vintage? |
| 01:01.34 | alterego | Heh |
| 01:01.35 | javispedro | in deception :( |
| 01:01.58 | javispedro | remember I wanted to update rootsh based on sudo only? |
| 01:02.18 | javispedro | turns out the ancient Maemo sudo version doesn't support removing certain env vars |
| 01:02.21 | javispedro | thus when using sudo -s |
| 01:02.25 | javispedro | $HOME is always /home/user |
| 01:02.33 | javispedro | (not /root) |
| 01:02.37 | javispedro | which breaks havoc |
| 01:02.39 | DocScrutinizer | bug: update sudo to a version >=1.7 (supporting #include and #includedir directives.). Get rid of update-sudoers |
| 01:03.50 | javispedro | but then some idiot named javispedro would come to that bug and say, "no, update to >=1.8 which has support for removing environment variables when calling interactive shells!" |
| 01:04.01 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: I wonder how many packages that would break :P |
| 01:04.18 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'd applaude to that comment |
| 01:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: how could it break packages? |
| 01:05.37 | javispedro | meanwhile, for those of you who don't visit *.meego.com , http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10739 |
| 01:05.38 | povbot | Bug 10739: Powertop licencing. |
| 01:05.44 | javispedro | povbot: bad bot! |
| 01:05.45 | povbot | javispedro: Error: "bad" is not a valid command. |
| 01:06.07 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 01:06.14 | DocScrutinizer | rotfl |
| 01:06.52 | javispedro | doesn't the entire bug report remind you of bugs.maemo.org? |
| 01:06.53 | DocScrutinizer | Bug 10739 - Hard to resize window with touchscreen |
| 01:06.54 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10739 Powertop licencing. |
| 01:06.56 | DocScrutinizer | ??? |
| 01:07.06 | javispedro | in tone. |
| 01:07.10 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: actually, I suppose it wouldn't it'd just complain the update command wasn't found. |
| 01:07.20 | javispedro | alterego: or stub it |
| 01:08.23 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: update-sudoers could get changed to do a mere syntactical chack in sudoers.d/* and discard offenders |
| 01:09.09 | DocScrutinizer | ...instead of rewriting /etc/sudoers |
| 01:10.16 | DocScrutinizer | wonders where he thought he found a call to update-sudoers during system init |
| 01:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | somehow it's hiding away from my grep's |
| 01:13.58 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (10739) WTF?! |
| 01:15.50 | DocScrutinizer | also the WONTFIX is ultra lame. At least the dude closing the bug should have the balls to say INVALID |
| 01:16.38 | javispedro | closing bugs "by policy" is already very maemoish |
| 01:16.49 | alterego | wonders what other little qml apps he can work on. |
| 01:16.54 | DocScrutinizer | well, who ever claimed meego would be less evil than maemo? |
| 01:18.09 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, time for a midnight coffee |
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| 01:19.20 | alterego | Do we have a way to send Alt? |
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| 01:20.17 | DocScrutinizer | esc |
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| 01:21.06 | alterego | I mean in non terminal apps :x |
| 01:21.16 | alterego | snd was probably the wrong word ;) |
| 01:21.31 | DocScrutinizer | well, technically it's a bit confusing to talk about "sending alt", depending on which level you're looking at |
| 01:22.08 | DocScrutinizer | so, simple answer: no |
| 01:22.15 | alterego | :) |
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| 01:34.03 | chem|st | double shift should be alt... |
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| 02:27.45 | DocScrutinizer | wtf is double-shift? |
| 02:28.24 | DocScrutinizer | the only double-shift I could think of is clearly bound to shiftlock |
| 02:28.52 | DocScrutinizer | shift-Fn should be Alt |
| 02:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | while Fn is AltGr I've been told |
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| 02:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | notices a postit on his laptop screen, saying "mod hw-kbd driver to support true macros and dbus signal emits" |
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| 02:50.10 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_: "Fn Taste ist gesperrt" for "Fn key locked" OUCH! "gesperrt" means you can't use it, it's blocked. Not locked in place. In German the shift-lock is called "Feststelltaste" but "Fn ist festgestellt" is also BS. I suggest "Fn Taste eingerastet" or "Fn Taste wird gehalten" |
| 02:54.24 | DocScrutinizer | correspondingly for an eventual 'unlocked' the German term would be "freigegeben" |
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| 03:03.21 | user | is there anyone who has successfully configured thr n900 to display dmesg type boot messages at system startup? |
| 03:04.06 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 03:04.18 | DocScrutinizer | you need an fb-enabled kernel for this |
| 03:04.59 | chx | would this http://www.amazon.com/ProMini-Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboard-TouchPad/dp/B003ZJEUBI/ref=pd_ts_e_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics work with the N900? |
| 03:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | alas such kernels tend to boot-OOPS and frequently need 2..7 retries until they occasionally boot up successfully |
| 03:05.46 | DocScrutinizer | user: if you're really interested, MohammadAG can tell about the details |
| 03:06.01 | DocScrutinizer | ...and probably also provide such a kernel |
| 03:06.19 | GAN900 | The Lenovo sure loves to lose rubber feet. |
| 03:06.47 | user | ok. i actually found a guide to the process in the maemo.org advanced booting section. |
| 03:06.51 | DocScrutinizer | everybody loves to lose rubberfeet :-P |
| 03:07.05 | user | it tells to to patch my initfs. but it dznt work |
| 03:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | user: you need a fb-enabled kernel |
| 03:08.05 | user | ok. fb is not enabled in kernel power? |
| 03:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 03:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | it makes kernel instable |
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| 03:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | please reread my prev posts |
| 03:09.08 | user | ok. thanks a lot. |
| 03:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | without framebuffer there's nothing for kernel messages to go to and displayed upon |
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| 03:35.36 | Jay_BEE | hiyas |
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| 04:00.37 | GAN900 | Stupid Lenovo power lock |
| 04:04.17 | chx | power lock? |
| 04:04.29 | chx | i have a T400s and never saw a power lock. must be new. |
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| 04:12.19 | beford | my camera was not working yesterday, and today my phone got in a reboot loop :/ |
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| 04:23.18 | GAN900 | chx, IdeaPad, lock switch next to the power button. |
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| 04:59.44 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, there are quite a number of unused key-combinations. Like Fn-down;Ctrl-down;Fn-up;Ctrl-up |
| 05:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | basically, with a decent driver, you need only one key-combination/sequence, to escape to macro mode |
| 05:01.52 | chx | speaking of, i should release my made-to-work-on-again-n900 supergenpass plugin |
| 05:03.20 | DocScrutinizer | supergenpass? |
| 05:04.19 | Termana | Fn-down;Ctrl-down;Fn-up;Ctrl-up you do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around, that's what it's all about. WOAHHHHHHH THE HOKEY POKEY |
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| 05:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | sounds like rock lobster of B52's |
| 05:07.01 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe "(why don't you want to) dance with me" |
| 05:07.24 | DocScrutinizer | probably the song is named differently though |
| 05:07.46 | DocScrutinizer | probably Limburger |
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| 05:23.52 | PaulyN900 | hello |
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| 05:29.06 | clasificado | hi all |
| 05:30.41 | fredrin | hay |
| 05:31.05 | fredrin | welcome to this friendly community |
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| 06:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | well, actually it's been "dance this mess around" |
| 06:17.50 | ds3 | new n900 game using the accelerometer? :D |
| 06:21.15 | omdag | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:49.46 | Jay_BEE | gn |
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| 08:47.55 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:49.13 | DocScrutinizer | morning Jaffa |
| 08:51.32 | jacekowski | morning people |
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| 08:52.08 | crashanddie | sup Maemo |
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| 09:29.30 | TermanaDesire | Lightning right outside my house :p |
| 09:30.07 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, nice |
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| 10:20.57 | pupnik | http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/Palm_Pre_privacy/ Palm Pre Owners: your device is 'phoning home' a lot of data, including your GPS location. |
| 10:21.14 | pupnik | (old) |
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| 10:26.44 | RST38h | pupnik: hehe. |
| 10:27.21 | RST38h | pupnik: Are you reading tmo thread by some lemming who just switched to PalmPre and dying to tell everyone about it? |
| 10:27.35 | pupnik | haven't seen |
| 10:28.53 | ieatlint | haha |
| 10:28.55 | ieatlint | webos is dead :P |
| 10:29.38 | ieatlint | almost no one on the team that made it stuck around after the hp buyout |
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| 10:33.44 | pupnik | my ears are so sensitive i can hear my thinkpad scroll in vi |
| 10:34.27 | pupnik | that's pretty weird |
| 10:36.29 | pupnik | http://bit.ly/fJjCjx [ Julian Assange arrested by British police | News.com.au ] |
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| 10:44.22 | tank-man | pupnik, sad news |
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| 10:45.00 | crashanddie | better link: http://www.news.com.au/world/assange-arrested-by-uk-police/story-e6frfkyi-1225967232654 |
| 10:46.44 | ieatlint | yes, i always mourn the arrest of alleged rapists |
| 10:47.06 | crashanddie | that's not why he is being arrested |
| 10:47.19 | crashanddie | he is wanted for "questioning" |
| 10:47.27 | crashanddie | he is not being charged with rape or anything |
| 10:47.56 | ieatlint | he's been arrested on a warrant out of sweden, the charges listed include rape |
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| 10:48.42 | crashanddie | No, they didn't. |
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| 10:48.57 | tank-man | remember when interpol had mike tyson on their most wanted list for rape? |
| 10:49.02 | tank-man | oh yea, he wasnt on the list |
| 10:49.06 | crashanddie | ieatlint, http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2010/PR101.asp |
| 10:49.15 | jophish | Hi all |
| 10:49.32 | jophish | I would really like to be able to copy a sms conversation |
| 10:49.53 | jophish | Is there any easy way fo doing this apart from one page at a time? |
| 10:50.05 | ieatlint | crashanddie: "Julian Assange, has been arrested by British police in relation to an international warrant issued by Sweden over alleged sex offences there." from the very article you just linked |
| 10:50.14 | RST38h | Ehehe |
| 10:50.20 | jacekowski | ekhm, it's first time i saw a rapist that was chased trough so many borders |
| 10:50.23 | jacekowski | and via interpol |
| 10:50.27 | jacekowski | and other stuff |
| 10:50.29 | derf | Yes, if it's in print, it must be true. |
| 10:50.29 | crashanddie | ieatlint, note the wording: "At the request of Swedish authorities who want to question him in connection with a number of sexual offences". |
| 10:50.36 | crashanddie | And that's from interpol, not the media. |
| 10:50.59 | ieatlint | crashanddie: ok ... and that differs from what i said how? |
| 10:51.11 | crashanddie | ieatlint, questioning is a far cry from being charged with. |
| 10:51.17 | ieatlint | he's under arrest, the arrest warrant provided by the swedes include the charge or rape... he is an alleged rapist |
| 10:51.28 | jacekowski | well, i wouldn't be surprised if somebody who doesn't like him just paid these girls to acuse him of that |
| 10:51.33 | jacekowski | it happens |
| 10:51.36 | ieatlint | i never said he was charged, i said there is a swedish arrest warrant that includes the charge of rape |
| 10:51.41 | crashanddie | No, the warrant doesn't include a charge of rape. |
| 10:52.13 | crashanddie | He hasn't been charged with anything, it's just "questioning". |
| 10:52.19 | ieatlint | uh, then why did the uk ask sweden to clarify the maximum jail time for all charges on their arrest warrant before they would act on it, delaying his arrest for the weekend? |
| 10:52.48 | crashanddie | They're just lazy sods who didn't work on the weekend :P |
| 10:52.56 | ieatlint | there is a charge of rape on the warrant -- he has not be charged with rape in a court of law, arguably because extradition must precede an arraignment in sweden |
| 10:53.33 | ieatlint | and i was clear to label him an alleged rapist... the accusation has been made |
| 10:53.47 | crashanddie | Well, I don't agree with that statement |
| 10:53.54 | crashanddie | As I haven't seen anything where he was charged with rape |
| 10:54.13 | ieatlint | yeah, again, i never said he was charged with rape |
| 10:54.31 | crashanddie | So he's not an alleged rapist :) |
| 10:54.40 | crashanddie | He's just wanted for questioning, as a witness |
| 10:54.42 | ieatlint | he is... the accusation has been made |
| 10:54.48 | ieatlint | as a suspect :P |
| 10:54.56 | crashanddie | ieatlint, link? |
| 10:54.59 | ieatlint | you're kidding yourself turning this guy into some sort of martyr |
| 10:55.16 | Noma | lol |
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| 10:55.44 | crashanddie | ieatlint, since when are "alleged rapists" searched by Interpol? Since when do "alleged rapists" get their international bank accounts frozen? |
| 10:55.46 | ieatlint | uh, the interpol link you sent me will do... "want to question him in connection with a number of sexual offences." ... you think they want to question him about a rape he witnessed? |
| 10:56.15 | crashanddie | It's obviously a smear campaign |
| 10:56.18 | RST38h | Have they found child porn on him already? |
| 10:56.27 | tank-man | what other rape cases do interpol involve themselves with? |
| 10:56.28 | crashanddie | RST38h, nope, that'll be on a USB stick later today |
| 10:56.32 | ieatlint | simple answers: 1) when a country issues an arrest warrant for it (eg, roman polanski) and 2) when they lie to the bank about their residency to obtain an account under false pretences |
| 10:56.48 | RST38h | crashanddie: Oh, still choosing juiciest pics, I see... |
| 10:56.56 | jacekowski | crashanddie: not really |
| 10:57.23 | Noma | since when have the Swiss been interested about who owns a bank account there and with what information they have opened it? |
| 10:57.26 | jacekowski | crashanddie: it happens quite often |
| 10:57.42 | jacekowski | crashanddie: i mean false rape accusations |
| 10:57.43 | crashanddie | jacekowski, define "quite often"? |
| 10:57.47 | crashanddie | oh, that. Sure |
| 10:58.07 | ieatlint | Noma: since the rest of the world has been critical of them, and has forced them to do all sorts of things... including turning over financial info the US gov so it can track down people evading taxes |
| 10:58.13 | jacekowski | and sometimes other worse stuff |
| 10:58.17 | jacekowski | during divorce |
| 10:58.25 | crashanddie | jacekowski, but rarely does it go international like we're seeing now. |
| 10:58.35 | jacekowski | it does go international |
| 10:58.44 | crashanddie | jacekowski, I'm pretty sure I could rape some poor chick in Spain and remain in France for 6 months before the police bothered with me. |
| 10:58.45 | jacekowski | it just never gets so much media coverage |
| 10:58.53 | jacekowski | crashanddie: not really |
| 10:58.58 | crashanddie | yes, really. |
| 10:59.01 | ieatlint | heh, you're very wrong |
| 10:59.21 | jacekowski | there was that polish bloke that apparently raped a girl in uk |
| 10:59.24 | ieatlint | if the charges are bullshit, have some faith in the legal system |
| 10:59.25 | crashanddie | My mother was nearly burnt alive, it took about 2 years before the Spanish police accepted RFIs from the French police. |
| 10:59.30 | jacekowski | and then moved to poland |
| 11:00.16 | crashanddie | and yes, I mean sprayed-with-petrol-and-lit-with-a-match "burnt alive". |
| 11:00.22 | jacekowski | it took only couple days from point when they suspected him to point where they requested extradition |
| 11:00.45 | crashanddie | so don't give me the kind of shit that international policing is any kind of "fast". |
| 11:00.49 | ieatlint | extradition is pretty simple in the western world.. |
| 11:01.05 | jacekowski | crashanddie: it took couple months for it to happen |
| 11:01.12 | jacekowski | but paperwork started moving quite soon |
| 11:01.52 | ieatlint | if it weren't for him trying to prove some ego-point, we'd never have heard about the case, and if anything his extradition to sweden would go faster |
| 11:01.53 | crashanddie | it's only fast when there is a political theatre behind it |
| 11:02.10 | ieatlint | the mere fact it has so much media attention will slow it down, not speed it up |
| 11:02.31 | jacekowski | no, you know about that case because he's a wikileaks bloke |
| 11:02.45 | pupnik | http://i.imgur.com/Nf1PA.jpg i love this one (funny,sfw) |
| 11:02.50 | crashanddie | ieatlint, you do realise that the swedish law has been broken, right? |
| 11:02.53 | jacekowski | if he would be just normal mr jones he would be back in sweden months ago |
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| 11:03.12 | jacekowski | but now everybody is doing everything by the book |
| 11:03.20 | crashanddie | ieatlint, when they issued the warrant, then retracted it, then issued it again, and *didn't bother notifying Assange while he was in Sweden*, rather went to the media with it? |
| 11:03.29 | ieatlint | crashanddie: you do realize you're discounting the possibility he may be guilty of a list of crimes he's been accused of simply because you're enthralled with his temper-tantrum? |
| 11:03.58 | pupnik | ieatlint: stick to issues |
| 11:04.04 | crashanddie | while the swedish law expressly says that until the person has been notified, the media may not be informed? |
| 11:04.12 | jacekowski | who informed the media? |
| 11:04.14 | pupnik | crashanddie: ty i didn't know that |
| 11:04.24 | ieatlint | well, then he has quite the case against the swedish gov then... |
| 11:04.33 | jacekowski | who informed the media |
| 11:04.36 | crashanddie | jacekowski, the attorney general, or the swedish equivalent |
| 11:04.44 | jacekowski | how do you know? |
| 11:04.44 | ieatlint | kinda funny for him to complain that something from a government was leaked to the press :P |
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| 11:04.49 | crashanddie | jacekowski, press release |
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| 11:05.32 | crashanddie | jacekowski, some dude on slashdot in the comments translated it -- google translate roughly confirmed what he was saying |
| 11:05.57 | ieatlint | so he can pursue legal action if that is indeed the case |
| 11:05.59 | jacekowski | well, in poland all court cases are public |
| 11:06.04 | jacekowski | with some exceptions |
| 11:06.14 | crashanddie | jacekowski, except it isn't a court case, yet. |
| 11:06.28 | ieatlint | if a warrant is issued, it is a court case |
| 11:06.31 | crashanddie | jacekowski, this is the equivalent of officers knocking on your door to get your statement, no need for media. |
| 11:06.39 | pupnik | since such allegations are themselves harmful, it's not the place of the police to go to the media with them, ieatlint |
| 11:06.56 | pupnik | (at least in common understanding of harmful) |
| 11:07.05 | crashanddie | well, character assassination |
| 11:07.06 | ieatlint | pupnik: if that is indeed swedish law, then as said, he has a case against them for it |
| 11:07.18 | ieatlint | but that doesn't excuse any illegal acts of his own |
| 11:07.24 | ieatlint | two wrongs don't make a right, etc |
| 11:07.35 | crashanddie | actually, in the US, that would be enough to nullify the case |
| 11:07.47 | chem|st | ieatlint: illegal acts? |
| 11:07.55 | ieatlint | actually, in the US, there is no obligation to inform the defendant before notifying the media |
| 11:08.03 | ieatlint | and in fact, arrest warrants themselves are public record |
| 11:08.21 | crashanddie | ieatlint, no, but unlawful behaviour by the prosecutors is definitely enough to throw it out of court |
| 11:08.32 | crashanddie | it's not a fucking arrest warrant |
| 11:08.38 | crashanddie | interpol turned it into an arrest warrant |
| 11:08.44 | ieatlint | no, it's enough for the prosecutor to be censured |
| 11:09.06 | ieatlint | if they act irresponsibly... but it's not considered irresponsible to announce an arrest warrant for someone |
| 11:09.20 | ieatlint | and there is a swedish arrest warrant for him |
| 11:09.42 | ieatlint | the interpol "red notice" is a request for questioning, but that's separate from the arrest warrant in sweden |
| 11:09.48 | crashanddie | ieatlint, do you know what the "rape allegation" is? |
| 11:10.00 | crashanddie | ieatlint, it's the girl who is attacking Assange because the condom broke |
| 11:10.11 | ieatlint | heh, then sounds like he has nothing to worry about |
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| 11:10.28 | ieatlint | you're so bent out of shape... if it's a bullshit charge, let him face it and stop bitching |
| 11:10.48 | crashanddie | ieatlint, the problem is that everyone believes he's guilty |
| 11:10.53 | crashanddie | everyone thinks he's a rapist |
| 11:10.55 | Jaffa | Oh yeah, that worked so well with #twitterjoketrial (not that I have an opinion on the Assange case particularly) |
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| 11:11.05 | chem|st | ieatlint: his lawyer allready said he will turn in |
| 11:11.39 | TermanaDesire | He already has been arrested i think |
| 11:11.50 | crashanddie | yeah, he has |
| 11:11.59 | Jaffa | Westminster, this morning. |
| 11:12.00 | ieatlint | crashanddie: if he's found not guilty, it'll be widely covered |
| 11:12.20 | ieatlint | and the information he's caused to be leaked is not based on his own credibility |
| 11:12.21 | chem|st | this is another streisand-phenomenon... |
| 11:12.30 | crashanddie | chem|st, aye |
| 11:12.34 | chem|st | ah ok didn't read any news |
| 11:12.35 | crashanddie | well, to be honest |
| 11:12.42 | Jaffa | ieatlint: Hmm; evidence suggests the media doesn't cover retractions as heavily as initial reports |
| 11:12.49 | crashanddie | the rape thingie is just there to make people worry about assange being a rapist rather than the content of the cables |
| 11:13.02 | ieatlint | Jaffa: this wouldn't be a retraction though, it'd be the outcome of what has become a high profile trial |
| 11:13.11 | crashanddie | ieatlint, and he'd still be tainted |
| 11:13.24 | ieatlint | crashanddie: that's your speculation |
| 11:13.29 | Jaffa | ieatlint: "No smoke without fire". I don't think The Daily Mail will cover it positively. |
| 11:13.37 | ieatlint | which has no evidence to back up |
| 11:13.48 | Jaffa | ieatlint: There are *many* accounts of people accused, and exonerated, of rape having their lives ruined. |
| 11:14.12 | Jaffa | ieatlint: So much so, there's been discussion in the UK of people accused of rape having *their* anonymity, as well as that already enjoyed by the victim. |
| 11:14.34 | ieatlint | Jaffa: that's stretching to call them "the media" :P |
| 11:14.35 | crashanddie | ieatlint, dude, have you seen the list of dirty things that have come out of the cables? |
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| 11:14.39 | ieatlint | crashanddie: sorry, that has what relevance to his alleged criminal acts? |
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| 11:14.50 | ieatlint | at least, his alleged criminal acts in this context :P |
| 11:14.52 | Jaffa | ieatlint: They count, even if I wish they didn't. |
| 11:15.19 | pupnik | "In the case of Ardin it is clear that she has thrown a party in Assange's honour at her flat after the 'crime' and tweeted to her followers that she is with the 'the worldâs coolest smartest people, itâs amazing!'" http://www.ibf.uu.se/PERSON/anna/anna.jpg |
| 11:15.39 | ieatlint | somehow i'm not worried that if he is indeed innocent of rape, that he'll be found not guilty and it'll be highly publicized |
| 11:15.43 | crashanddie | the U.S. military formally adopted a policy of turning a blind eye to systematic, pervasive torture and other abuses by Iraqi forces: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/iraq-detainee-abuse-torture-saddam |
| 11:16.10 | ieatlint | crashanddie: you act as though this is news |
| 11:16.17 | ieatlint | or that i care |
| 11:16.19 | crashanddie | theState Department threatened Germany not to criminally investigate the CIA's kidnapping of one of its citizens who turned out to be completely innocent: http://harpers.org/archive/2010/11/hbc-90007831 http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-el.html |
| 11:16.48 | ieatlint | you're shouting off things that are completely disconnected from the allegations at hand |
| 11:16.57 | crashanddie | the StateDepartment under Bush andObama applied continuous pressure on the Spanish Government to suppress investigations of the CIA's torture of its citizens and the 2003 killing of a Spanish photojournalist when the U.S. military fired on the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad (see ThePhiladelphia Inquirer's WillBunch today about this:"The day BarackObama Lied to me"): http://harpers.org/archive/2010/12/hbc-90007836 http://w |
| 11:16.57 | crashanddie | ww.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/At_least_not_quite_as_many_people_died_when_Obama_lied.html |
| 11:17.09 | pupnik | all good leaks |
| 11:17.21 | crashanddie | the British Government privately promised to shield Bush officials from embarrassment as part of its Iraq War "investigation": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8172243/WikiLeaks-British-government-promised-to-protect-US-interests-at-Chilcot-inquiry.html |
| 11:17.36 | crashanddie | "American leaders lied, knowingly, to the American public, to American troops, and to the world" about the Iraq war as it was prosecuted, a conclusion the Post's own former Baghdad Bureau Chief wrote was proven by theWikiLeaks documents: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-10-25/wikileaks-shows-rumsfeld-and-casey-lied-about-the-iraq-war/ |
| 11:17.57 | crashanddie | the U.S.'s own Ambassador concluded that the July, 2009 removal of the Honduran President was illegal -- a coup -- but the StateDepartment did not want to conclude that and thus ignored it until it was too late to matter: http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2010/12/01/john-perry/yes-it-was-a-coup/ |
| 11:18.09 | ieatlint | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:18.16 | crashanddie | U.S. and British officials colluded to allow theU.S. to keep cluster bombs on British soil even though Britain had signed the treaty banning such weapons: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-cables-cluster-bombs-britain |
| 11:18.31 | crashanddie | Hillary Clinton's State Department ordered diplomats to collect passwords, emails, and biometric data on U.N. and other foreign officials, almost certainly in violation of the Vienna Treaty of 1961. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un |
| 11:18.40 | crashanddie | I hope I made a point? |
| 11:18.45 | ieatlint | nope, not a single one |
| 11:19.01 | ieatlint | not unless one of those cable speaks of setting up fake rape charges |
| 11:19.02 | crashanddie | ieatlint, then you are blinded by your own unwillingness to debate |
| 11:19.09 | crashanddie | ieatlint, read the last one |
| 11:19.17 | ieatlint | yeah, so? |
| 11:19.21 | pupnik | we can show that the prosecution is a sham |
| 11:19.34 | crashanddie | ieatlint, asking diplomats to do spies' jobs? |
| 11:19.44 | ieatlint | heh |
| 11:20.03 | crashanddie | there's a reason why you have diplomats and special agencies |
| 11:20.08 | crashanddie | if you can't see that separation, I'm sorry. |
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| 11:20.20 | crashanddie | anyway, time for a spot of lunch |
| 11:20.22 | crashanddie | 'later all. |
| 11:20.23 | TermanaDesire | crashanddie: hope your not looking for a us federal government job. Talking about the cables lessens your security and background clearence |
| 11:20.36 | ieatlint | uh... you're arguing something very disconnected is my point |
| 11:20.46 | crashanddie | TermanaDesire, well, I have a security clearance with the UK government |
| 11:20.52 | ieatlint | you're shouting about how diplomats broke the law, and here i thought we were discussing someone getting arrested |
| 11:20.56 | X-Fade | cables? I have a ton of cables :) |
| 11:21.03 | crashanddie | TermanaDesire, and one with the Aussi government |
| 11:21.16 | crashanddie | TermanaDesire, both of which are probably not valid anymore considering I don't live in the countries anymore. |
| 11:21.46 | tank-man | ieatlint, thats the thing ... the rape stuff is making people lose sight of the problems the leaks reveal |
| 11:22.14 | ieatlint | tank-man: then that's his own failing, for putting himself so much in the public eye instead of letting the information speak for itself |
| 11:22.16 | crashanddie | X-Fade, sup dawg. i noticed you liekd cables in ur cables, so i put cables in ur cables so you can leak cables using your cables. |
| 11:22.28 | ieatlint | but that said, it's the leaks that are on the cover of time magazine, not rape accusations |
| 11:22.40 | X-Fade | crashanddie: If you ask nicely I can tell you all about my secret cables :) |
| 11:22.48 | crashanddie | is that a euphemism? |
| 11:22.59 | crashanddie | anyway, lunch, later. |
| 11:23.02 | X-Fade | Maybe we should publish that info on the interwebs somewhere :) |
| 11:24.07 | DocScrutinizer | idly wonders about the relevance for chan topic - not saying anything more than exactly that |
| 11:24.44 | ieatlint | i think we're done now anyway :P |
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| 11:25.09 | DocScrutinizer | Oh, go ahead. Just let me fetch some coffee and popcorn |
| 11:25.28 | Jaffa | X-Fade: I never have the cable I want though. Say, a short C7 laptop power adapter to euro plug (about 30cm-1m) |
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| 11:26.04 | ieatlint | yeah, i just have to call him an alleged rapist, and suddenly it's all sorts of entertainment :) |
| 11:26.57 | DocScrutinizer | I'm all for massive distribution of Y-cables, for USB |
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| 11:28.34 | DocScrutinizer | maybe even including some secret circuitry to identify it to N900 as external 5V enabled |
| 11:28.58 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia's secret Y-cables affair |
| 11:30.13 | DocScrutinizer | maybe I should run a trial agains Nokia for raping my N900 with MyNokia SMS |
| 11:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | those 2 topics should be similarly unrelated :-P |
| 11:32.28 | ieatlint | indeed... i spent $0.20 or so on that |
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| 11:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | yawns |
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| 11:34.19 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 11:37.06 | alterego | quickly pours coffee down DocScrutinizers' gullet |
| 11:37.24 | *** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.15.6) |
| 11:37.45 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, probably not the worst idea |
| 11:38.30 | DocScrutinizer | actually yawning is unacceptable after just 15h awake |
| 11:42.43 | pupnik | "Once, as she was lecturing, a male student in the audience looked at his notes instead of staring at her. Anna Ardin reported him for sexual harassment because he discriminated against her for being a woman and because she claimed he made use of the male âmaster suppression techniqueâ in trying to make her feel invisible." |
| 11:43.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | red lighrt!! |
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| 12:09.45 | achipa | X-Fade: ping |
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| 12:26.41 | alterego | Crap, lirc's include statement doesn't work in the global /etc/lircd.conf file |
| 12:26.43 | RST38h | Mhm... poor qgil stepping into the fray, predictably being torn apart |
| 12:26.51 | alterego | Only works in the .lirc file .. |
| 12:27.01 | alterego | ~/.lircrc |
| 12:27.12 | Macer | skyyline was pretty good |
| 12:27.29 | alterego | I heard it was awful :P |
| 12:29.50 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 12:29.55 | lcuk | RST38h, where? |
| 12:30.48 | RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=885433 |
| 12:30.56 | Macer | alterego: it was bad til towards the end |
| 12:31.14 | RST38h | qgil is a professional, makes sure to mention Meego in every second sentence |
| 12:31.33 | RST38h | not his fault that nobody is biting though =( |
| 12:32.00 | jacekowski | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5DKBWXFLGI |
| 12:32.07 | jacekowski | electric eel and alligator |
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| 12:35.31 | jacekowski | crashanddie: according to info i found |
| 12:35.36 | jacekowski | crashanddie: he's not arrested |
| 12:35.49 | jacekowski | crashanddie: he went himself to police |
| 12:36.41 | jacekowski | because of somebody threatening him with death |
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| 12:40.17 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-169-210.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
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| 12:45.54 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: meh, the whole thread feels so useless and is depressing... :-S |
| 12:46.18 | *** join/#maemo user__ (~user@218.248.84.83) |
| 12:46.46 | user__ | hello guys! |
| 12:47.45 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48EB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:52.51 | user__ | how to set username in irssi? |
| 12:53.49 | user__ | I'm new to using irssi in N900. Usually I use empathy in ubuntu. |
| 12:54.12 | psycho_oreos | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:54.25 | psycho_oreos | or maybe it could be user_name |
| 12:54.41 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 12:54.47 | user__ | psycho_oreos okay let me do it. thx |
| 12:55.30 | Termana | RST38h, No offence to Quim, but what professional TRIPLE POSTS |
| 12:55.31 | Termana | :P |
| 12:55.38 | X-Fade | user__: As long as you don't listen to people who say it is /disconnect ,you should be fine ;) |
| 12:56.18 | X-Fade | user__: /nick foo works too. |
| 12:56.33 | user__ | X-Fade: heh okay. |
| 12:56.51 | jase21 | yeah! thanks. |
| 12:56.52 | X-Fade | See? Much better. |
| 12:57.09 | jase21 | Yes. |
| 12:57.11 | psycho_oreos | oh you wanted to change nickname :p |
| 12:57.27 | jase21 | heh, yes. |
| 12:57.35 | X-Fade | On the command line, you can use irssi -n jase21 -c chat.freenode.net |
| 12:57.46 | X-Fade | That will make it connect to freenode and set your nick. |
| 12:57.56 | jase21 | Now back to being seroius. Did anyone install erlang on N900? |
| 12:57.56 | *** join/#maemo lcuk_idea (~lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust6.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 12:57.58 | RST38h | Termana: He was answering questions |
| 12:58.09 | crashanddie | X-Fade, isn't it irc.freenode.net? |
| 12:58.29 | Termana | RST38h, so? Answer them in the one post |
| 12:58.30 | crashanddie | sees "erlang" and goes into hiding. |
| 12:58.32 | RST38h | Doc: How many tmo threads are *not* depressing? :) |
| 12:58.38 | X-Fade | crashanddie: Works too. |
| 12:58.59 | RST38h | Termana: x3 fewer thanks. |
| 12:59.08 | X-Fade | crashanddie: http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml |
| 12:59.17 | jase21 | No one? |
| 12:59.18 | X-Fade | crashanddie: Says main one is chat. |
| 12:59.30 | crashanddie | jase21, short answer: no |
| 12:59.38 | jase21 | okay. |
| 12:59.56 | crashanddie | long answer: fuck no. |
| 13:00.02 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h:touche' |
| 13:00.04 | X-Fade | erlang is available in extras-devel. |
| 13:00.06 | Termana | Oh I see, so we should just abandon normal forum etiquette to rob the Thanks and karma system blind |
| 13:00.23 | RST38h | yes. |
| 13:00.23 | MohammadAG | ~seen qgil |
| 13:00.27 | infobot | qgil <c0647cdc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.124.220> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 17h 37m 56s ago, saying: 'dneary: clear now, thanks!'. |
| 13:00.30 | RST38h | you are the last to find out. |
| 13:00.47 | jase21 | hmm.. |
| 13:00.47 | dneary | infobot, Yes? |
| 13:00.47 | infobot | yes is probably the opposite of no |
| 13:00.51 | Termana | No wonder I have such a low thanks count |
| 13:01.00 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@189.115.169.128) |
| 13:01.13 | RST38h | slowpoke. |
| 13:02.17 | jase21 | I have another doubt. Is there a way to own what you chat without third party controlling it like gtalk? |
| 13:02.22 | Jaffa | Termana: TMO doesn't have the "multi-quote" feature that FMC has; so it's a little harder - although I try to make the effort. |
| 13:02.23 | achipa | X-Fade: ...groan...testing...groan...list... |
| 13:02.31 | achipa | it's really impeding :( |
| 13:02.47 | Jaffa | jase21: Jabber through your own server. |
| 13:03.19 | jase21 | Jaffa: means that I need to set up a jabber server? |
| 13:03.59 | jase21 | Is irc possible of something like that. |
| 13:04.42 | X-Fade | achipa: Hmm yeah, -ENOTIME is really a pain. Let me see if I can get one of the Nemein guys to debug it. |
| 13:04.58 | jase21 | Is setting up my own irc server help? |
| 13:05.17 | marmoute | jase21: if you want to chat without third party involved you have to setup the infrastruture yourself (as you don't want a third party involded) |
| 13:05.27 | marmoute | setting up a jabber server is not a big deal |
| 13:05.46 | jase21 | marmoute: okay. |
| 13:06.00 | DocScrutinizer | what is the use of IRC when no third party is involved? o.O |
| 13:06.21 | marmoute | You can setup an irc server as an alternatif (to chat using irc) or use a irc network you trust. |
| 13:06.48 | *** join/#maemo ayanes (~ayanes@unaffiliated/ayanes) |
| 13:06.53 | jase21 | is setting a private irc channel suffice? |
| 13:07.08 | marmoute | but setting up a jabber server is pretty easy and allow you to link with the rest of the word. |
| 13:07.21 | jase21 | my requirement is that only the people who is chatting ahould have the log. |
| 13:07.21 | DocScrutinizer | that's just like asking how I make public transportation drive me from my home place to my office, without all those annoying other people around |
| 13:07.35 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@81.200.10.92) |
| 13:07.45 | jase21 | hah Doc. |
| 13:08.10 | marmoute | jase21: depending of the critical level of security you want. irc is just fine |
| 13:08.18 | marmoute | channel are generaly not logged |
| 13:08.32 | DocScrutinizer | BS! IRC is the wrong service for private chat |
| 13:08.49 | f3ew | logs IRC *and* Jabber |
| 13:08.54 | lcuk_idea | privacy is hard. |
| 13:09.04 | jase21 | confused |
| 13:09.18 | marmoute | the real question if "jase21 WTF do you want to do ?" |
| 13:09.23 | f3ew | jase21 in what context do you want to keep chats private? |
| 13:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | and for the logging: how would you define "users that chat"? is infobot a "usewr that chats"? |
| 13:09.39 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 13:09.39 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: thanks |
| 13:09.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~logs |
| 13:09.45 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily, or the log URL is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23uphpu/ |
| 13:10.06 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 13:10.11 | marmoute | prepared a friends birthday ? arrange a date with you mistress ? have business talk with co-worker/partenary ? Have homeland security meeting ? |
| 13:10.20 | jase21 | How about chatting with a girlfriend? |
| 13:10.34 | jase21 | :D |
| 13:10.43 | MohammadAG | on IRC? o_O |
| 13:10.45 | trx | lol |
| 13:10.52 | marmoute | MohammadAG: of course... |
| 13:10.58 | DocScrutinizer | jase21: if you want to do that semi-private, there's /query for that |
| 13:11.17 | jase21 | Non not like that. Totally private. |
| 13:11.21 | flux | /dcc is basically private, but it doesn't have built-in encryption |
| 13:11.22 | marmoute | jase21: and why the fuck don't you want google to have you sexchat log ? |
| 13:11.39 | flux | and it has issues with NATted environments |
| 13:11.41 | DocScrutinizer | jase21: if you need total security, I suggest using some crypto sacured protocol. maybe skype, or encrypted email |
| 13:11.53 | flux | you can run several encryption layers over irc, though |
| 13:11.56 | MohammadAG | or talk to her in life |
| 13:12.03 | jase21 | Don't convert it into sexchat :D |
| 13:12.26 | trx | or just send her a letter.. |
| 13:12.30 | marmoute | DocScrutinizer: jase21 if you want total isolation and security use a private isolated jabber server with encription |
| 13:12.40 | f3ew | Or send her an *encrypted* letter |
| 13:12.49 | f3ew | gets the wrench |
| 13:12.50 | trx | haha |
| 13:13.23 | f3ew | makes a quick xkcd reference |
| 13:14.00 | *** join/#maemo tilppis (~tilppis@89-166-4-136.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 13:14.05 | jase21 | yeah private jabber with encryption seems to be a better one. |
| 13:14.54 | jase21 | oh then why not just call or sent sms? Hmm.. |
| 13:15.01 | DocScrutinizer | shakes head on weird ideas of some users |
| 13:15.11 | marmoute | jase21: sms imply third party |
| 13:15.28 | jase21 | hah. Its okay. |
| 13:15.29 | marmoute | and cell call are not that secure |
| 13:15.36 | flux | sms's are stored in plain-text in the provider's servers |
| 13:15.37 | jase21 | oh right. |
| 13:15.38 | meh4 | anyone know of a way to upload to imageshack or something similar with N900? |
| 13:15.48 | meh4 | theres a yfrog app but its broken |
| 13:15.53 | flux | and I haven't actually heard anyone claim they are encrypted over-air when I've queried the matter.. |
| 13:15.53 | *** join/#maemo siriusnova (~Langley@ded.khan.su) |
| 13:15.55 | crashanddie | meh4, flickr? |
| 13:15.59 | DocScrutinizer | fsck, how's that IRC or maemo related? |
| 13:16.17 | meh4 | crashanddie, i was thinking of something like imageshack cuz it doesnt require registeration |
| 13:16.24 | marmoute | still wonder why the hell jase21 needs is chat with a girlfriend stay secret to the whole worlds |
| 13:16.25 | meh4 | crashanddie, just upload some random picture and get the link and thats it |
| 13:16.40 | DocScrutinizer | marmoute: ++ |
| 13:16.51 | DocScrutinizer | marmoute: complete nonsense |
| 13:17.03 | crashanddie | jase21, the matter of fact is that your life isn't that interesting |
| 13:17.05 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@nat/ti/x-xqhawvpdvcbdmlrk) |
| 13:17.29 | jase21 | yeah, what ever. |
| 13:17.52 | DocScrutinizer | if your talk is so secret and important, then you are probably better off sending it as a pgp crypted mail anyway - you get enough time to think about what you write |
| 13:17.53 | jase21 | just wanted to clear my mind on the doubt about chatting in private. |
| 13:18.14 | crashanddie | jase21, how many people use SMSs? |
| 13:18.17 | jase21 | Doc: okay. |
| 13:18.37 | jase21 | crashanddie: a lot I guess. |
| 13:18.50 | crashanddie | jase21, the amount of information being exchanged is enough to make your dialogs "part of the noise" |
| 13:19.06 | marmoute | DocScrutinizer: ++ if you need secure communication get them PGP (or whatever else) encrypted during the whole transit. |
| 13:19.28 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:19.38 | lcuk | carrier pigeons. |
| 13:20.13 | crashanddie | heck, write it on paper, scan it to PGP, hide the information in a picture, print as postcard, send that with an innocuous message on the back. |
| 13:20.15 | marmoute | could be shot down. it's not secure. |
| 13:20.25 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html |
| 13:20.38 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ^^^ |
| 13:20.45 | kerio | marmoute: and yet it doesn't give you plausible deniability |
| 13:21.01 | jase21 | damn, you need to do that much stuff just to talk? |
| 13:21.26 | crashanddie | preferably using a scanner with a hardware encryption integrated to it, so that the actual data never reaches your computer USB port (which could've been intercepted) |
| 13:21.42 | DocScrutinizer | jase21: we are in here for free talk, not for secret talk |
| 13:21.42 | jase21 | Ahahaha.. |
| 13:21.57 | crashanddie | or just get her to use SIP over i2p. |
| 13:21.59 | jase21 | I'm doing freetalk. |
| 13:22.14 | DocScrutinizer | ZRTP |
| 13:22.36 | crashanddie | or hide it in the wikileaks torrent |
| 13:22.49 | crashanddie | one porn chat amongst 250k diplomatic cables should go unnoticed. |
| 13:22.54 | jase21 | damn. |
| 13:23.19 | jase21 | okay lets forget it. |
| 13:23.22 | crashanddie | or how about just meeting the chick in a bar and talking to her? |
| 13:23.28 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: I guess 50% of those are their own special breed of porn anyway |
| 13:23.31 | crashanddie | oh, no, that would require going outside, can't do that. |
| 13:23.45 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, for paranoid schizophrenics, it's uber porn |
| 13:23.59 | jase21 | hah, you know the geeks in us.. |
| 13:24.25 | RST38h | "The Iranian government has been attempting to co-opt the country's Ninjas and other martial artists to help out with some light repression duties, US diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks claim." |
| 13:24.31 | jase21 | what happens when they are in some other distant places? |
| 13:24.44 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, I always wanted to prank a PH -- plug your video feed on their TV antenna, and just voiceover "I know you're there. We've been tracking you." |
| 13:25.09 | RST38h | Ummm! Ninjas! |
| 13:25.18 | jase21 | wikileaks aren't interesting for me. May for some govt. poloticians. |
| 13:25.44 | jase21 | what's that got to do with any programmer? |
| 13:26.10 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (~alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 13:26.10 | crashanddie | because freedom of speech is so far removed from other noble ideas open source tries to proclaim? |
| 13:26.28 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-kwjfuyhoxehvpjwq) |
| 13:26.30 | DocScrutinizer | what got uber secret sex chat to do with IRC and maemo? |
| 13:26.32 | jase21 | erm.. |
| 13:27.07 | jase21 | well I'm chatting this on N900. |
| 13:27.32 | SpeedEvil | is naked. |
| 13:27.45 | derf | is sick. |
| 13:27.51 | DocScrutinizer | well, lemme chat about my feet here then, moment I switch to my N900 so I'm on topic |
| 13:28.44 | jase21 | control your emotions. What I was asking is a logical approach to solve a computer related problem. |
| 13:28.59 | RST38h | <lcuk:#meego> blue sky, cotton wool clouds, gentle breeze, lovely fresh sea air. sound of waves lapping on the shore. ... my perfect environment. |
| 13:29.08 | RST38h | <DocScrutinizer> well, lemme chat about my feet here then, moment I switch to my N900 so I'm on topic |
| 13:29.10 | jase21 | and thanks for you answer. I think a private jabber with encryption will suffice. |
| 13:29.12 | RST38h | [Priceless] |
| 13:29.48 | jase21 | let me talk about N900 a bit. |
| 13:29.51 | crashanddie | jase21, just for the sake of argument, what are you trying to protect? And from whom? |
| 13:30.02 | lcuk | RST38h, :D pardon |
| 13:30.07 | lcuk | that was in another chan :P |
| 13:30.17 | RST38h | no, no, that was nice =) |
| 13:30.33 | jase21 | okay, may be from .. I don't know. Isn't it bad to read what other talk anyway? |
| 13:30.48 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@guest-docking-nat-2-235.ethz.ch) |
| 13:31.32 | jase21 | Back to core maemo stuff. Is there any hardware instruction that helps implementing aes on omap? |
| 13:31.34 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@GMMMDCLII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:31.48 | lcuk | ahhh RST38h - you mean the complete difference in topic quality between #maemo and #meego |
| 13:31.49 | *** join/#maemo Svavel (~max@bullerovre99.bitnet.nu) |
| 13:31.50 | jase21 | Do you geeks know? |
| 13:32.12 | SpeedEvil | jase21: There is a hardware crypto unit |
| 13:32.13 | crashanddie | jase21, hang on, meet me in Gandhi Park in 10 minutes. Or maybe St Michael's Church? |
| 13:32.36 | marmoute | next week jase21 will built is own chipset with integrated encryption to send "I miss you" to the girl next door without it's dog being suspicious |
| 13:32.50 | crashanddie | his* |
| 13:32.51 | jase21 | SpeedEvil: okay. Any manuals? |
| 13:32.51 | crashanddie | not it's |
| 13:32.55 | crashanddie | or its at least |
| 13:33.21 | RST38h | http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/a/l/alexandreev/new-year.jpg |
| 13:33.25 | crashanddie | unless the girl is a blow-up doll, in which case "its" would be appropriate |
| 13:33.27 | jase21 | crashanddie:I don't know those places. |
| 13:34.04 | crashanddie | jase21, so you're not near Coimbatore? |
| 13:34.14 | crashanddie | damn NAT. |
| 13:34.28 | pupnik | speaking of blow-up dolls... http://rixstep.com/1/20101202,01.shtml |
| 13:34.40 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org/msg04318.html jase21 |
| 13:34.47 | jase21 | marmoute: damn you guys. stop making fun off me. |
| 13:34.48 | SpeedEvil | check related threads |
| 13:34.52 | crashanddie | pupnik, a blow-up doll has come forward in the Assange case? Crying foul over alleged rape accusations? |
| 13:35.36 | pupnik | heh |
| 13:35.40 | kerio | crashanddie: nope |
| 13:35.45 | kerio | quite the opposite |
| 13:35.52 | jase21 | SpeedEvil: Document not found. |
| 13:36.10 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: works for me |
| 13:36.13 | SpeedEvil | jase21: |
| 13:36.18 | *** join/#maemo nicolai (~communi@92.116.1.43) |
| 13:36.40 | *** join/#maemo degggeard (~degggeard@196-147.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 13:36.45 | jase21 | ? |
| 13:37.29 | jase21 | yes it works! |
| 13:37.34 | pupnik | crashanddie: allegedly she's 'in the middle-east' now... why??? |
| 13:39.10 | crashanddie | pupnik, yesterday, on national news, it was said that "Assange was on the run from international police, and could be hiding anywhere in Africa, Asia, America". |
| 13:39.31 | jase21 | what a weirdos |
| 13:39.38 | siriusnova | they are going to waterboard Assange |
| 13:39.48 | siriusnova | to give up his people behind wikileaks |
| 13:40.54 | jase21 | lemme see if I can come up with AES implemnted in asm and C in N900.. |
| 13:41.38 | DocScrutinizer | jase21: ask here, I think you're re-inventing that |
| 13:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | iirc jacekowski mentioned something very similar being implemented already |
| 13:42.07 | jase21 | Doc: Wow! Is it already written? |
| 13:42.35 | jase21 | is it using hardware ? |
| 13:42.54 | DocScrutinizer | ask jacekowski |
| 13:43.06 | jase21 | okay. |
| 13:43.08 | crashanddie | you do realise that "software" is just a name eh, it actually uses hardware to run :P |
| 13:43.22 | crashanddie | as for hardware accel, doubt it. |
| 13:44.18 | jase21 | crashanddie: hah I expected it.. I meant hardware accelerated .. |
| 13:44.22 | DocScrutinizer | [PATCH 0/2] crypto: omap-sha1-md5: OMAP3 SHA1 & MD5 driver |
| 13:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-12-07 14:34:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org/msg04318.html jase21 |
| 13:44.34 | crashanddie | listens to Tron OST |
| 13:44.54 | jase21 | Doc: that's the link before. |
| 13:45.05 | DocScrutinizer | orly? |
| 13:45.25 | jase21 | I'll look more indepth there (using a pc). |
| 13:45.25 | pupnik | The original prosecutor in charge, Eva Finné, dropped the charges the same week they were made and stated they were groundless. Eva Finné was removed from the case by Claes Borgström and a new prosecutor, Marianne Ny, was appointed. Her first act was to reinstate the charges. |
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| 13:46.05 | jase21 | pupnik: what has that got to do with maemo |
| 13:46.29 | pupnik | sorry just remnants from earlier discussion |
| 13:46.34 | RST38h | pupnik: ahhahaha |
| 13:46.44 | SpeedEvil | http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg39969.html jase |
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| 13:47.59 | pupnik | http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/standardsetting/childjustice/Marianne%20Ny.asp Send Marianny NY email and let her know what you think about prosecuting Julian Assange of Wikileaks after the prior prosecutor dropped the charges. |
| 13:48.20 | RST38h | pupnik: And Mr Assange is squarely ending up in the second occupation =) |
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| 13:49.20 | jase21 | SpeedEvil: Do you know which repo is it? Is it gitorious? |
| 13:49.43 | jase21 | Where is it committed to? |
| 13:50.29 | jase21 | Okay.. |
| 13:50.52 | jase21 | Hope we had a good dicsussion. |
| 13:51.02 | jase21 | Going offline. |
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| 14:21.20 | alterego | Mucking around with some QML theming and drawing purdy graphics: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/qtquick/chrome-buttons-001.png |
| 14:21.40 | alterego | Iss quite fun :) |
| 14:21.49 | RST38h | Have to install the latest SDK |
| 14:22.09 | RST38h | Is QML universally usable on N900s nowadays? |
| 14:22.10 | alterego | RST38h: ? |
| 14:22.17 | PeYKaR | hmm, dudes, is there any HN client for n900? (HackerNews) |
| 14:22.17 | alterego | RST38h: yup, with PR1.3 :) |
| 14:22.24 | RST38h | alterego: cooooooooooool |
| 14:22.36 | alterego | :) |
| 14:23.21 | alterego | You don't need Qt Creator to do QML on the device though, I spend about half an hour to an hour at night playing with it with vi on the device every so often in bed ^.^ |
| 14:24.22 | alterego | I'm more proud I actually managed to draw that button graphic myself :D |
| 14:24.36 | alterego | Using inkscape, then cutting it up in The GIMP |
| 14:24.45 | alterego | I feel like a pro-designer now ^.^ |
| 14:25.26 | lcuk | alterego, are they also shadable? |
| 14:25.37 | alterego | lcuk: no, I'm working on that now. |
| 14:25.47 | alterego | You mean colourisable yer? |
| 14:25.55 | alterego | If that's a real word .. |
| 14:25.58 | lcuk | yes |
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| 14:27.29 | alterego | lcuk: unfortunately this may not be possible in pure QML |
| 14:27.51 | alterego | Because I need to generate some kind of mask, which I don't think I can do. |
| 14:27.53 | lcuk | thats a bit sad |
| 14:27.56 | alterego | Yeah |
| 14:28.08 | alterego | I can do it with a bit of C++ |
| 14:29.14 | lcuk | alterego, what properties/methods would be required in qml itself to accomodate such a thing |
| 14:29.35 | lcuk | if you were going to implement it, where would you expect to set things |
| 14:30.08 | alterego | Well, you'd need a mask for the shape of the button, which in this case comprises of three segments. |
| 14:30.33 | alterego | Then a custom overlay component, which uses that mask and colours in the area where it's supposed to. |
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| 14:31.03 | alterego | Is that sort of what you meant? |
| 14:31.26 | lcuk | for a quick thing, yeah |
| 14:31.28 | alterego | The methods would just be implementing the paint method, and properties, well, colour and opacity seem like the only ones required. |
| 14:31.50 | lcuk | you know DHTML has properties and built in methods to do this kind of thing? |
| 14:31.50 | alterego | Do you have a better solution? |
| 14:32.00 | alterego | Oh, neat :) |
| 14:32.03 | alterego | No, didn't know that. |
| 14:32.04 | lcuk | or is it XHTML or something |
| 14:32.14 | lcuk | waves hands a bit |
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| 14:33.03 | alterego | You can colourise the text if that's any consolation :P |
| 14:33.18 | lcuk | I am just pondering not specifically for this one use case, but for more generic things which would allow people to use qml where its not pracitcal atm |
| 14:33.23 | lcuk | hehe |
| 14:33.30 | alterego | Yeah |
| 14:33.52 | alterego | I've got another idea, but it only would work with more rectangular buttons .. |
| 14:34.18 | lcuk | transparent overlay? |
| 14:34.24 | alterego | Yeah |
| 14:34.47 | lcuk | how do people in HTML world manage CSS only rounded corners? |
| 14:35.09 | lcuk | and can that kind of thinking be combined with a transparent overlay to get what you are thinking |
| 14:35.22 | alterego | I could write a little framework that does this all in C++, not overlay but colourises the image and allows me to reference that image. |
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| 14:35.43 | alterego | So you could come up with button sets of varying color, all of which use the same images internally. But you'd have an unlimited palette. |
| 14:35.47 | lcuk | hmm then make that available as a QML basetype? |
| 14:35.52 | alterego | Yeah |
| 14:35.55 | lcuk | cool |
| 14:36.04 | lcuk | that sounds like the button class from liqbase |
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| 14:36.32 | alterego | So MyButton.qml: GenericButton {color: "blue"} |
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| 14:37.00 | lcuk | alterego, ok, supposing you did this and made a new egobutton.so |
| 14:37.04 | alterego | s/MyButton/BlueButton/ :D |
| 14:37.17 | hellwolf-dell | Hi, the device maybe old, but is there any support for libvpx for N810? |
| 14:37.23 | alterego | Yeah, not had much luck with QML extensions in the past .. |
| 14:37.45 | lcuk | ok alterego but if you spoke to the people around qt and qml libraries about how to implement it cleanly |
| 14:37.49 | alterego | I can never seem to import them when using plain qmlviewer. |
| 14:37.50 | lcuk | (there must be examples somewhere..) |
| 14:38.00 | alterego | Oh, I've managed to make a plugin |
| 14:38.05 | alterego | I just couldn't load it in qmlviewer |
| 14:38.13 | lcuk | well to be usable by anything, egobutton class would have to be inside qt itself |
| 14:38.26 | lcuk | to then be available as a base within all qml things |
| 14:38.36 | alterego | So now I tend to write standalone qml based apps with the necessary infrastructure in the app. |
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| 14:39.14 | alterego | Oh, you mean you think it'd be nice to have this in QtQuick itself? |
| 14:39.16 | lcuk | standalone .exe apps with their own viewer? or just senidng out the .qml itself? |
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| 14:39.30 | alterego | lcuk: using their own viewer widget yeah. |
| 14:39.36 | lcuk | alterego, i think finding out the method to do it properly would be good :) |
| 14:39.51 | alterego | lcuk: yes, agreed. |
| 14:40.07 | alterego | That's what I'm doing, effectively :P |
| 14:40.19 | lcuk | to open the discussion and find out how practical things such as this would be (even if egobutton was not the specific thing wanting adding) |
| 14:40.23 | lcuk | :) good |
| 14:40.30 | alterego | Sure |
| 14:40.56 | alterego | Hrm, cached images may not work actually. |
| 14:41.31 | alterego | Because you'd want opacity and color to be properties that can be animated with PropertyAnimation which makes the caching pointless really |
| 14:41.54 | lcuk | nods |
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| 14:45.32 | alterego | I think what iis really happening here is we're attempting to come up with a general purpose "themeing" engine. |
| 14:45.46 | alterego | Which I think is the purpose of Qt Components. |
| 14:45.52 | alterego | So I've asked the question in there ;) |
| 14:46.24 | alterego | There's extremely rudimentary support in what we have now, which is basically just the existance of border images .. |
| 14:48.25 | alterego | For my next go, I'm going to use SVG instead of pngs for scalability. |
| 14:48.51 | alterego | lcuk, Then we can start talking about morphing SVG directly from within QML ;) |
| 14:49.14 | lcuk | hehe |
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| 15:11.12 | alterego | Hrm, svg may be a bit more tricky .. |
| 15:11.25 | alterego | gives up for the time being and carries on doing what he was doing .. |
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| 15:12.27 | crashanddie | http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/11/25/ventblockers_04.jpg |
| 15:12.34 | crashanddie | http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/11/25/ventblockers_03.jpg |
| 15:14.45 | alterego | woof |
| 15:15.44 | crashanddie | whole story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/ventblockers_2/page9.html |
| 15:17.10 | RST38h | crash: The little guys definitely liked the positive terminal |
| 15:17.22 | BCMM | are they having a competition to post filthy PCs? |
| 15:17.35 | RST38h | was it leaking eletrolyte or something? |
| 15:20.24 | crashanddie | ~ping |
| 15:20.24 | infobot | ~pong |
| 15:20.25 | lcuk | BCMM, its theregister, they rarely need an excuse to post dirty pictures |
| 15:20.30 | lcuk | but, yeah in this case it is |
| 15:20.32 | BCMM | hah |
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| 15:20.48 | BCMM | i liked their excessive packaging contest best i think |
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| 15:22.19 | alterego | lcuk: check this: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/qtquick/chrome-buttons-02.png |
| 15:22.19 | alterego | :D |
| 15:22.29 | alterego | Got TextButton and ToolButton :D |
| 15:22.48 | lcuk | cool |
| 15:22.54 | lcuk | can you apply both to the same? |
| 15:23.00 | lcuk | so you can have icon+caption |
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| 15:23.24 | alterego | Yeah, thinking of doing that. |
| 15:23.51 | lcuk | alterego, its "normal" for buttons to have that sort of capability |
| 15:23.52 | BCMM | fcamera used to produce broken dngs (or dngs that triggered a bug in ufraw) - iirc there was a program to fix old dngs |
| 15:23.53 | alterego | lcuk: I can do it now, but I want a clean way to do it, at the moment if you don't define an icon, it complains that "./.png" is not found. |
| 15:23.58 | BCMM | anyone got the link handy? |
| 15:24.21 | alterego | So I'd need a way to dynamically add the icon in javascript, |
| 15:24.41 | alterego | which is fine, or have it force a default-icon on every instance, which would be lame if you want a label only button. |
| 15:25.04 | Arkenoi | hopes we will get our telepathy-OTR and SMS encryption project to launch first beta before NY |
| 15:25.21 | BCMM | maybe i mean dcraw |
| 15:25.30 | lcuk | Arkenoi, "our"? |
| 15:25.35 | RST38h | moo javispedro, Arkenoi |
| 15:25.40 | javispedro | morning |
| 15:25.44 | BCMM | ah, got it |
| 15:25.47 | alterego | lcuk: so I think for the time being, having seperate components is probably best. |
| 15:26.02 | lcuk | alterego, thats cool |
| 15:26.08 | lcuk | those do indeed look awesome |
| 15:26.28 | alterego | lcuk: yeah, who'd have thought a hacker could have a good eye for graphics too :D |
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| 15:26.51 | alterego | is starting to get the hang of all of this now though :D |
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| 15:27.21 | lcuk | heh |
| 15:27.26 | Arkenoi | lcuk: i have a small team working on it. i am just a project manager not actually involved in coding. |
| 15:28.35 | alterego | Now to come up with my own icons, rather than using a mish-mash of stock gnome and hildon :D |
| 15:28.37 | lcuk | Arkenoi, cool, are you on the related collabora channels and doing this as a proper project then or just hacking around |
| 15:28.39 | alterego | Though, they do look nice. |
| 15:29.12 | ajf_ | needs to make his n900 app look prettyier |
| 15:29.14 | Arkenoi | i asked Marlinspike to provide me with redphone protocol specs to maintain compatibility, but he said there aren't any atm, so we will probably add it later |
| 15:29.42 | ajf_ | http://eth0.org.uk/~alan/mf900-3.png |
| 15:30.27 | Arkenoi | lcuk, we are hacking PoC now and will try to push it upstream once it's finished. Maybe it is not really the "proper" way.. |
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| 15:32.54 | lcuk | Arkenoi cool you are doing stuff, make sure you call by #telepathy and keep the guys informed (via encrypted messages :P) and watch out for the project naming |
| 15:33.48 | Arkenoi | lcuk, ok, i'll ask the developers to stay in touch there |
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| 15:37.35 | alterego | ajf_: neat :) |
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| 15:52.01 | Venemo_N900 | good afternoon guys |
| 15:53.15 | pupnik | hey |
| 15:53.18 | lolloo | hello |
| 15:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | hm, according to UGT there's no such thing like afternoon |
| 15:53.57 | DocScrutinizer | anyway hi Venemo_N900 |
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| 15:59.03 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: there's no such thing as afternoon? why not? |
| 15:59.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ugt |
| 15:59.21 | infobot | well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 16:01.27 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: thx |
| 16:01.41 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: I'm learning something new every day |
| 16:02.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, this isn't completely serious :-) |
| 16:03.58 | rcg-work | well, aint learning the "not completely serious" often the most fun |
| 16:04.13 | pupnik | who wants to make a simple video game for mameo? "Marrianne Ny's Swedish Rape Patrol" |
| 16:04.28 | alterego | Hah, wha? :D |
| 16:04.50 | pupnik | ok channel formed |
| 16:04.58 | rcg-work | having said that, and in compliance with utg: its really late and i gotta hit the road |
| 16:05.41 | mgedmin | fbreader still crashes when I use the Book Info dialog |
| 16:05.52 | mgedmin | at least crashes on exit have stopped happening |
| 16:06.17 | pupnik | or maybe the Swedish Dating Game? |
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| 16:16.45 | crashanddie | "A musician who went into a central London sandwich store to buy something to eat has had a 300-year-old Stradivarius violin worth 1.2 million pounds stolen." |
| 16:18.04 | MohammadAG | I see the point in your post javispedro |
| 16:18.19 | MohammadAG | what good will asking Nokia for OSSing sw do, none |
| 16:18.21 | crashanddie | link? |
| 16:18.26 | MohammadAG | goes back to looking at Qt |
| 16:18.42 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, same old crap, you've probably seen it N8x0 times I guess |
| 16:18.45 | MohammadAG | sec though |
| 16:19.33 | MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66275&page=4 |
| 16:19.39 | MohammadAG | from qgil's post onwards |
| 16:19.55 | MohammadAG | actually, read from the top |
| 16:20.14 | nidO | people always seem to be losing obscenely expensive stradivarius violins all over the place |
| 16:20.25 | nidO | you'd think these people would be rather more careful with such things |
| 16:20.47 | Jaffa | javispedro: If nothing else, your post made me smile :-) |
| 16:21.02 | mikki-kun | whoah, now that was... |
| 16:21.17 | MohammadAG | though it makes me think |
| 16:21.23 | MohammadAG | will I still buy the N9? |
| 16:21.35 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: No - you'll get one free. |
| 16:21.43 | MohammadAG | iOS and Symbian have no hope |
| 16:21.48 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, nah :P |
| 16:21.50 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Probably/hopefully/delete as appropriate |
| 16:21.54 | mikki-kun | i think i should really do device repairs more often and educate myself in them ^^ i repaired by plainly opening the device and removing the dust from inside it Ã.ö |
| 16:22.10 | javispedro | MohammadAG: actually I'm not sure there's a point behind it ;) |
| 16:22.16 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, I think qgil is going senile. |
| 16:22.28 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, lmao |
| 16:22.37 | Jaffa | Are we on the "conversations on IRC" bit of javispedro's timeline? ;-) |
| 16:22.38 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, he used the word MeeGo 4 times in a 3 line paragraph. |
| 16:22.51 | *** join/#maemo Coin_Ope_Boy (~Coin@bl15-236-44.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 16:23.00 | MohammadAG | no, let's start making custom ROMs |
| 16:23.12 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG ++ |
| 16:23.13 | lcuk | Jaffa, which timeline |
| 16:23.15 | MohammadAG | include bme and mce in them, the old non relicensed ones! |
| 16:23.37 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: The Community SSU is one approach for that |
| 16:23.38 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, on that note, have you ever received a C&D for FMTXD? |
| 16:23.58 | Jaffa | lcuk: See MohammadAG's link to javispedro's post on the "State of Maemo" thread |
| 16:24.03 | javispedro | notes that the "Community SSU" fits into the "start to fix stuff by themselves" part |
| 16:24.12 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, true, but we can't distribute some minority of apps |
| 16:24.33 | Jaffa | javispedro: Indeed - but I'm mildly hopeful because it started even before PR1.3 was released. |
| 16:24.36 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, I wonder, what if we removed the media player altogether? |
| 16:24.42 | MohammadAG | we're allowed to use sed on a binary in a postinst though right? :3 |
| 16:24.52 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Indeed; and wget. |
| 16:24.56 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: And... |
| 16:25.01 | sivang | heh |
| 16:25.10 | MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=891542&postcount=51 lcuk |
| 16:25.14 | sivang | reads the post, there's work to do but this is interesting |
| 16:25.18 | sivang | read from top? |
| 16:25.30 | Jaffa | It's a tricky question: for the N<last> community to continue to thrive all the leading hackers need to keep it. However, it's in Nokia's interests (and those of the hackers themselves) to get new shiny toys |
| 16:25.31 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, hmm, we need a proper alternative first :P |
| 16:25.38 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, not an issue |
| 16:25.57 | Jaffa | sivang: The first half of the thread can be skipped with "council suck" posts. But then look - gosh - we got a straight answer from qgil :-) |
| 16:26.02 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, and if you're hinting at my posts *looks around maemo*, I'll complain about the browser |
| 16:26.03 | Jaffa | Not a great answer, but an answer. |
| 16:26.04 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, c'mon, with lcuk, Jaffa, javispedro and you, there's a media player by tomorrow evening. |
| 16:26.10 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 16:26.11 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 16:26.16 | javispedro | Jaffa: it is tricky indeed. note that I do not have a well-formed opinion about the entire issue either, just pointing what I see it's going on. |
| 16:26.20 | mikki-kun | Jaffa: hm, but hackers also need devices they can rely on ;) that's where the n900 fits the story |
| 16:26.36 | Jaffa | mikki-kun: Maybe, but itch scratching's reduced. |
| 16:26.45 | lcuk | crashanddie, if you get involved it can have biometric scanning too |
| 16:26.47 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, kinda doubt it, at least it won't be a 1:1 OSS copy |
| 16:26.52 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~lolloo@2.91.15.174) |
| 16:26.54 | lcuk | with a sniff detector you could change tracks by farting |
| 16:27.07 | Jaffa | Qt *does* have an awful lot of abstractions |
| 16:27.08 | *** part/#maemo Coin_Ope_Boy (~Coin@bl15-236-44.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 16:27.18 | MohammadAG | votes for lcuk as CEO of marketing |
| 16:27.19 | crashanddie | lcuk, ok, I'll do VoiceOver. |
| 16:27.30 | MohammadAG | your humor might beat Sony's :P |
| 16:27.35 | crashanddie | humour |
| 16:27.35 | sivang | sets away and hopes to read the not least interesting backlog from here, starting this discussion |
| 16:27.42 | sivang | -> reading |
| 16:27.53 | javispedro | crashanddie: oh, I really wish. The sad truth is that if you do something like VoiceOver but OSS you would be famous. |
| 16:28.03 | javispedro | because you would be the first. |
| 16:28.05 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, fix libsexy spelling in xchat |
| 16:28.21 | MohammadAG | it went ugly with hildon's Entry box |
| 16:28.29 | crashanddie | javispedro, what, TTS on an id3 tag would be a world first? |
| 16:28.44 | javispedro | ah, voiceover is tts only? |
| 16:28.52 | javispedro | was thinking recognition, sorry |
| 16:28.54 | crashanddie | ah I understand it, yes. |
| 16:28.55 | javispedro | not used to apple marketing ;) |
| 16:29.04 | lcuk | didn't stephen hawking release "satisfaction" which has TTS voiceover? |
| 16:29.13 | crashanddie | lmao |
| 16:30.02 | crashanddie | for those who didn't get lcuk's joke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF67kuOoWjE |
| 16:30.14 | crashanddie | (and even for those who got it) |
| 16:30.50 | javispedro | satisfaction! |
| 16:31.20 | mikki-kun | crashanddie: i still don't get it.. |
| 16:31.21 | lcuk | really really really want TTS plugin for xchat |
| 16:31.29 | lcuk | i am in a chan here on freenode that has a stream for it |
| 16:31.42 | crashanddie | mikki-kun, then go read about stephen hawking |
| 16:32.00 | lcuk | (#fmcg jeri ellsworths channel) |
| 16:32.10 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, design the basic UI |
| 16:32.23 | *** join/#maemo blackthorne (~blackthor@bl14-223-250.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 16:32.32 | MohammadAG | done (at least in my head) |
| 16:32.34 | crashanddie | Jaffa, write the file handling (reading directories, reading ID3 tags when available) |
| 16:32.50 | crashanddie | lcuk, provide the API to read the files in a separate thread |
| 16:32.54 | MohammadAG | what? no tracker support? |
| 16:32.58 | crashanddie | fuck tracker |
| 16:32.59 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 16:33.00 | javispedro | no MAFW integration? |
| 16:33.01 | crashanddie | for v1 |
| 16:33.24 | crashanddie | I'll implement the "random" button. |
| 16:33.42 | javispedro | I'll draw the icon |
| 16:33.44 | MohammadAG | javispedro, it doesn't have to play anything in 1.0 |
| 16:33.46 | javispedro | then ask wazd to paint it |
| 16:33.59 | lcuk | and alterego can implement it in qml |
| 16:34.16 | MohammadAG | qml takes too much memory :P |
| 16:34.21 | MohammadAG | or so he says |
| 16:34.23 | javispedro | and here we hit another problem |
| 16:34.35 | Gizmokid2005 | 'allo frals :) |
| 16:34.42 | MohammadAG | question is, should I take this seriously and start today? |
| 16:34.57 | crashanddie | Why the hell not |
| 16:35.03 | crashanddie | People moan about media player |
| 16:35.12 | crashanddie | People say "It's open source, yaaaay, we can hack away at it@ |
| 16:35.17 | crashanddie | I say, fuck it, and let's do it. |
| 16:35.18 | lcuk | every time I clap my hands a new media player is born somewhere on the surface of the planet |
| 16:35.37 | crashanddie | lcuk, or we hack one that is decent and available and package it to replace the stock one |
| 16:35.40 | frals | ello Gizmokid2005 |
| 16:35.56 | lcuk | \o frals |
| 16:35.57 | MohammadAG | lcuk, you don't clap a lot then :P |
| 16:35.58 | Gizmokid2005 | frals: which fmms file? fmms_gui.py? |
| 16:36.02 | lcuk | are you implementing send via MMS? :D |
| 16:36.07 | frals | o/ lcuk |
| 16:36.16 | frals | lcuk: ? ;o |
| 16:36.18 | frals | Gizmokid2005: aye |
| 16:36.43 | lcuk | on the new media player discussed ^ |
| 16:36.53 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, agreed, I'll start on a UI today |
| 16:37.02 | alterego | Dunno what it is yet, but its' fun: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/qtquick/chrome-buttons-003.png |
| 16:37.07 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, about hacking an existing one, I doubt it'll end up nice |
| 16:37.10 | frals | lcuk: where what? |
| 16:37.19 | crashanddie | MohammadAG, cool. |
| 16:37.23 | crashanddie | What codecs do we support? |
| 16:37.28 | crashanddie | wav, mp3? |
| 16:37.30 | crashanddie | in v1 |
| 16:37.31 | javispedro | huh |
| 16:37.32 | alterego | crashanddie: we use mafw |
| 16:37.33 | lcuk | frals scrollback a page or so to where stephen hawking was discussed |
| 16:38.01 | MohammadAG | all, we use gstreamer |
| 16:38.01 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~chewtoy@c80-216-53-128.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:38.01 | crashanddie | alterego, Morris Area Freewheelers Bicycle Club? |
| 16:38.07 | MohammadAG | or mafw, whatever |
| 16:38.12 | crashanddie | wtf is mafw? |
| 16:38.17 | frals | lcuk: sure, i have dbus api for starting fmms ;-) |
| 16:38.19 | Gizmokid2005 | alright frals, here some fun funs. "./fmms-gui.py:405: GtkWarning: gtk_list_store_remove: assertion `VALID_ITER (iter, list_store)' failed [next line] self.liststore.remove(miter)" |
| 16:38.20 | MohammadAG | (doesn't mafw use gstreamer anyways?) |
| 16:38.22 | alterego | crashanddie: media application framework, the same backend the stock media player uses/ |
| 16:38.24 | andre__ | multimedia application framework |
| 16:38.24 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, a backend |
| 16:38.26 | lcuk | frals, win \o/ |
| 16:38.30 | crashanddie | but it sucks? |
| 16:38.33 | frals | Gizmokid2005: you can paste everything in a querty, please :) |
| 16:38.37 | crashanddie | I thought we wanted to improve? |
| 16:38.39 | javispedro | crashanddie: but it is open ;) |
| 16:38.42 | crashanddie | oh |
| 16:38.42 | alterego | No |
| 16:38.45 | crashanddie | no? |
| 16:38.46 | alterego | The UI sucks |
| 16:38.46 | MohammadAG | what the media player poorly uses |
| 16:38.53 | crashanddie | ok |
| 16:38.54 | *** join/#maemo me|kor (~melkor@91-66-109-228-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 16:38.57 | crashanddie | then let's go for MAFW |
| 16:38.59 | alterego | mafw is pretty cool. |
| 16:39.10 | alterego | Should probably use tracker too .. |
| 16:39.14 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) |
| 16:39.16 | crashanddie | not in V1 |
| 16:39.17 | alterego | But not rely on it. |
| 16:39.19 | frals | Gizmokid2005: ah, i suspect i know why its failing... had to change some stuff when enabling livesearch, will add it to my list of stuff to check |
| 16:39.21 | crashanddie | that's for v1.5 |
| 16:39.39 | frals | Gizmokid2005: thanks for letting me know :) |
| 16:39.46 | alterego | Are you planning on making it look like the stock player? |
| 16:39.58 | crashanddie | javispedro, can you look around at replacing the binary? What command line options are used? How is it called? What do we need to replace? Can we use apt to replace it? |
| 16:39.59 | javispedro | notes that it should |
| 16:40.06 | Gizmokid2005 | frals: thanks for letting me report it :) Like I said, they disappear when I start it up again, just don't remove when I do it now. |
| 16:40.10 | lcuk | alterego, design goal of MAFW was to have different backend support |
| 16:40.29 | lcuk | as announced it was expected to work with gstreamer and mplayer afaik |
| 16:40.39 | Robot101 | MAFW has turned into a new project now called Grilo |
| 16:40.45 | javispedro | crashanddie: nothing weird about it. |
| 16:40.47 | alterego | Interesting |
| 16:40.48 | Robot101 | it fixes everything the MAFW guys were ashamed with :) |
| 16:40.51 | javispedro | http://live.gnome.org/Grilo |
| 16:40.55 | Robot101 | if you want something like MAFW, use Grilo :) |
| 16:41.06 | lcuk | http://maemoide.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp?topic=/org.maemo.mica.maemosdk.help.api.c.multimedia/api_refs/5.0/mafw-shared/chapter-describing-mafw.html |
| 16:41.11 | alterego | We don't want something like mafw .. We want mafw .. |
| 16:41.15 | lcuk | "# |
| 16:41.15 | lcuk | Independence of the technology. Since MAFW is a plugin based framework, it is not tied to a particular multimedia technology (GStreamer, MPlayer, Tracker). Plugin developers have freedom to choose the technologies they want to use in their plugins, and application developers do not need to know about them." |
| 16:41.17 | MohammadAG | back to physics, brb in some time, we'll start on it today |
| 16:41.51 | lcuk | ahhh Robot101 |
| 16:41.52 | crashanddie | javispedro, can apt replace the binary? (or copy it/symlink) |
| 16:42.04 | MohammadAG | postinst |
| 16:42.06 | javispedro | you don't want to do that |
| 16:42.18 | MohammadAG | indeed |
| 16:42.21 | javispedro | either upgrade it via ssu or create a new bianry |
| 16:42.32 | MohammadAG | yep |
| 16:42.36 | crashanddie | upgrade via SSU it is then |
| 16:42.43 | MohammadAG | that's why I hate modified hildon-desktop |
| 16:42.52 | MohammadAG | the package it makes at least |
| 16:43.03 | crashanddie | new binary is going to fuck up calls -- whenever the rest of Maemo calls the media player, the old one will be used |
| 16:43.10 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs19.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 16:43.45 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@186.212.103.21) |
| 16:43.45 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) |
| 16:44.10 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (~lardman@78.145.243.227) |
| 16:45.58 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 16:46.26 | *** join/#maemo Vanadismobile_ (~Vanadismo@gprs17.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 16:46.35 | crashanddie | anyway, gotta run |
| 16:46.52 | crashanddie | Need to finish the roadmap presentation for tomorrow morning |
| 16:48.35 | sivang | ran for something and is back reading |
| 16:49.10 | *** join/#maemo lcuk_idea (~lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust6.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 16:50.20 | sivang | the forum thing is trouble for folks that can't get used it, I must say. It is like moe of the community happening is there and if you prefer MLs you are left out, for the most part. |
| 16:50.49 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:8b2b:fac0:221:5dff:fe95:a18) |
| 16:51.15 | javispedro | sivang: fortunately we have excellent MWKN coverage about both channels ;) |
| 16:51.15 | Jaffa | sivang: Ha, I can point to some threads that say the opposite |
| 16:51.22 | Jaffa | javispedro: :) |
| 16:51.40 | lcuk | sivang, same for many things, with multiple ways of communication I doubt there is a person comfortable with all |
| 16:51.50 | sivang | Jaffa: ;) |
| 16:52.06 | sivang | lcuk: true |
| 16:52.36 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: A new media player should be an improved, open, but basicallt the same, Qt GUI over MAFW/Tracker/Qt Multimedia. Then there's no design challenge (except for obvious niggles) to get to a "happy state" for further customisation. |
| 16:53.04 | sivang | btw, fwiw I was deeply interested in that meeting, but by the time it happened I was so confused with all the happening and a bit sick, that I missed it :-/ |
| 16:53.20 | sivang | I am slowly learning that you can't dance at all weddings in a conf |
| 16:53.26 | sivang | :) |
| 16:53.51 | Jaffa | As for taking an existing player and customising the UI, the UI's the hardest bit and taking a desktop one of relative significance and modifying it... is mad. |
| 16:54.10 | Jaffa | IMHO. YMMV. |
| 16:54.29 | javispedro | Note that just trying to make it Qt instead of Hildon already makes it different. |
| 16:54.36 | Jaffa | But a QML media player over MAFW/Tracker should be "relatively" easy. |
| 16:54.51 | javispedro | It will be slow to start, for example. |
| 16:55.08 | Jaffa | javispedro: It's supposed to have similar functionality, be open source and maintain the same interfaces. |
| 16:55.21 | Jaffa | javispedro: true |
| 16:55.36 | lcuk | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1/multimedia.html |
| 16:55.54 | sivang | MAFW= media application framework? |
| 16:55.55 | lcuk | and afaik there are already qml bindings for qtm? |
| 16:56.09 | Jaffa | Depends on the skills of the people implementing it, I guess. But a media player is mostly a UI job |
| 16:56.14 | Jaffa | sivang: correct |
| 16:56.25 | sivang | so the idea is to have most of the logic of the app in QML? |
| 16:56.47 | lcuk | bbl |
| 16:57.39 | Jaffa | sivang: Picture the Fremantle media player in your head; there are about 6 or so views which map to QML "states" quite nicely. Most of the UI is bespoke, so std. controls are less of an issue. |
| 16:58.01 | Jaffa | QML startup performance could be an issue, I've only done noddy things so far. |
| 16:58.12 | javispedro | hum |
| 16:59.15 | Jaffa | ? |
| 16:59.28 | javispedro | doing such a player in Qt Quick would be the best action we could take from a Meego PoV -- suddenly, Meego gets a reference media player that doesn't suck, and MeegoOnN900 people are happy. |
| 16:59.57 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 17:00.04 | javispedro | however, not so sure if MaemoOnN900 people would be. |
| 17:00.32 | sivang | can we make it easy to have for both {Maemo,MeeGo}OnN900 people? |
| 17:00.45 | sivang | there are other apps that need unsucking, btw |
| 17:00.53 | sivang | not just the media player |
| 17:01.03 | sivang | I mean, out of the meego reference UX |
| 17:01.12 | sivang | but mp could be a good start |
| 17:01.18 | Jaffa | sivang: Tackle one at a time. Photo viewer & media player are the two easiest IMHO |
| 17:01.24 | sivang | I agree |
| 17:01.26 | Jaffa | javispedro: Cos of perf or ...? |
| 17:01.35 | sivang | even I can help with an mp |
| 17:01.45 | sivang | if it's lots of QML, to start with |
| 17:01.55 | javispedro | performance, potential of non-integration with the rest of the system, etc. |
| 17:02.07 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@starfury.spearlink.com) |
| 17:02.24 | Arkenoi | what is your opinion, how long will it take for meego/n900 to be feature match for maemo? |
| 17:02.29 | sivang | javispedro: what sort of non integration points are we seeing here apart from different UX? |
| 17:02.39 | javispedro | for example, yesterday we were discussing about Sygic muting mediaplayer when giving voice instructions |
| 17:02.48 | Arkenoi | including third-party software etc |
| 17:03.00 | javispedro | I do not own sygic, but I believe it uses libplayback for that task |
| 17:03.30 | javispedro | how does libplayback interact with Qt? because it interacts quite funnily with SDL: it causes deadlocks everywhere. |
| 17:03.33 | javispedro | oh, and its closed. |
| 17:03.39 | sivang | javispedro: ah, finally a turnbyturn app that just works? :) |
| 17:04.00 | Arkenoi | it works, but no traffic data in it yet |
| 17:04.18 | sivang | Arkenoi: having navigational data is ana amazing leap forward, per maemo |
| 17:04.22 | sivang | *an |
| 17:04.43 | sivang | is ti free? |
| 17:04.47 | javispedro | sivang: sygic is quite old, it happened on the first days of the n900 |
| 17:04.51 | javispedro | nope |
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| 17:05.11 | javispedro | back when things seemingly were going to be a bit more brighter than previous NITs.. |
| 17:05.21 | Arkenoi | well, mappero does everything except voice assistance. actually a possibility for voice plugins seems to be present in menus, but i do not know if it is really functional |
| 17:06.12 | Arkenoi | it is not free and it is quite expensive for todays standards |
| 17:06.20 | sivang | javispedro: so it looks, yes, looks like a bit of investement went into developing this |
| 17:06.36 | sivang | hopes mappero can use OSMs |
| 17:06.57 | lcuk | alterego, Jaffa - how long is qml startup time at the moment? |
| 17:07.05 | lcuk | for even noddy examples |
| 17:07.38 | sivang | so, speaking out of poor practice, maybe having a QML vm prestarted could help? |
| 17:07.46 | sivang | (/me recalls this is doen for python) |
| 17:07.49 | javispedro | that's what Hildon does also |
| 17:07.52 | lcuk | shudder |
| 17:08.03 | *** join/#maemo [a] (ident@unaffiliated/a/x-1546669) |
| 17:08.12 | lcuk | forget anything else at the moment: what is the startup time :P |
| 17:08.24 | lcuk | so we have baseline for people to actually work from |
| 17:08.27 | sivang | lcuk: shudder as a componenet or the literal meaning ? :) |
| 17:08.36 | lcuk | literal meaning |
| 17:08.43 | trumee | ~seen Robot101 |
| 17:08.51 | infobot | robot101 is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 17 messages. Is idling for 27m 56s, last said: 'if you want something like MAFW, use Grilo :)'. |
| 17:08.51 | lcuk | i am used to practically instant start for things |
| 17:09.00 | trumee | Robot101: ping |
| 17:09.23 | *** join/#maemo NGNUton-BC (~gnuton@80-186-97-200.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 17:10.00 | hrw|gone | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/12/07/is-this-the-end-of-maemo5/ |
| 17:10.49 | javispedro | hrw|gone: join the rant in the talk.maemo.org |
| 17:10.52 | javispedro | thread. |
| 17:11.07 | sivang | regarding maemo's knowledge learned, I'm not sure it is actively used in meego so far, at least from what I've asked and heard even during the conf |
| 17:11.19 | sivang | (reading through the intro on the talk. article) |
| 17:11.45 | javispedro | that recent "wontfix by policy" bug in bugs.meego.com doesn't help |
| 17:12.22 | sivang | "If you're waiting for directions as to what you should do next, stop waiting. Continue developing for Maemo or start developing for MeeGo. In the end, both will support each other." |
| 17:12.28 | sivang | seriously? |
| 17:12.28 | andre__ | javispedro, uh? got an example URL? |
| 17:12.37 | javispedro | andre__: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10739 |
| 17:12.39 | povbot | Bug 10739: Powertop licencing. |
| 17:12.42 | javispedro | povbot: shut up! |
| 17:12.43 | povbot | javispedro: Error: "shut" is not a valid command. |
| 17:12.52 | andre__ | thanks |
| 17:13.35 | javispedro | is also condemned to repeat history |
| 17:14.05 | sivang | javispedro: wow |
| 17:14.13 | sivang | javispedro: shocked |
| 17:14.14 | andre__ | let me reopen... |
| 17:15.25 | trumee | guys, why i cant find the src of telepathy-sofiasip here, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/telepathy-sofiasip/0.6.2-0maemo4+0m5/ |
| 17:15.55 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:16.02 | sivang | regrets seeing this bug report and the responder's comment. this is taking wind out of sails. |
| 17:17.08 | sivang | thanks andre__ ;) |
| 17:17.24 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 17:17.41 | Venemo | hi |
| 17:18.33 | javispedro | trumee: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/t/telepathy-sofiasip/ |
| 17:18.54 | javispedro | trumee: no idea why the interface doesn't show it, probably not implemented for device repos |
| 17:18.55 | trumee | javispedro: thanks |
| 17:19.12 | andre__ | yeah, doesn't show any links to free default packages |
| 17:19.55 | Jaffa | lcuk: FWIW, my simple QML hello world starts in about 3 seconds from clicking icon. Fremantle Media Playeer takes 4 |
| 17:20.27 | lcuk | Jaffa, try something simpler - calculator afaik starts quickly |
| 17:21.00 | sivang | javispedro: fremantle mp connects to tracker no? |
| 17:21.05 | javispedro | Jaffa: 3 seconds sound snappy actualy |
| 17:21.07 | sivang | javispedro: and asks for items |
| 17:21.36 | sivang | Jaffa: I read you statement about cross platformness, you are aware the promise is far from being complete? |
| 17:21.52 | javispedro | sivang: I do not have the whole picture in mind but I think media player just delegates on mafw for media discovery |
| 17:22.04 | sivang | javispedro: and then mafw talks to tracker? |
| 17:22.07 | Jaffa | lcuk: Clock takes 4 too to replace the pre-startimage with the actual window |
| 17:22.08 | javispedro | yep |
| 17:22.21 | Jaffa | sivang: That was my point ;) |
| 17:22.50 | Jaffa | javispedro: Single state, Rectangle with gradient and a Text |
| 17:22.50 | javispedro | I find it funny that my radio application takes exactly one second to coldboot ;) |
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| 17:23.36 | lcuk | Jaffa, surprisingly, clock does quite a bit and takes longer than calc afaik (i have both on my desktop) |
| 17:23.57 | javispedro | yeah, clock seems weird |
| 17:24.00 | lcuk | just my desktop is downstairs |
| 17:24.03 | Jaffa | lcuk: I don't have Calc on my desktop |
| 17:24.16 | lcuk | ahh no prob then |
| 17:24.19 | Jaffa | lcuk: 2.5 |
| 17:24.20 | sivang | javispedro: ah right, I was getting the impression you were saying "in develop we trust" :) |
| 17:24.21 | Jaffa | ish |
| 17:24.33 | Jaffa | lcuk: i.e. on this diff is small between |
| 17:25.11 | lcuk | ok fair enough |
| 17:25.18 | lcuk | i have a metric tonne of alarms in mine |
| 17:25.24 | lcuk | perhaps thats the diff |
| 17:25.28 | *** join/#maemo Brownout (~brownout@wikimedia/brownout) |
| 17:26.54 | javispedro | na, I have 4 alarms and even then clock is the slowest application to boot from the entire first page on my launcher |
| 17:27.02 | *** join/#maemo blackthorne (~blackthor@bl14-223-250.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 17:30.57 | sivang | i really need to get on top of the forums |
| 17:31.06 | sivang | so much relevant stuff there |
| 17:31.08 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.103.21) |
| 17:31.20 | sivang | well, in terms of the council, at least |
| 17:32.53 | *** join/#maemo mveplus (~mven@125.70.71.148) |
| 17:34.49 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, it should also be easily portable |
| 17:35.03 | Venemo | hello MohammadAG :) |
| 17:35.11 | sivang | hey Venemo |
| 17:35.16 | Venemo | hi sivang |
| 17:35.17 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 17:35.21 | sivang | I have to get back to work, though this thread is terribly interesting. |
| 17:35.32 | sivang | see you all later |
| 17:36.36 | trumee | This page doesnt discuss how to terminate dnsmasq connection it created on ocsuite disconnect, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_router |
| 17:36.43 | *** join/#maemo machia (~shusso@cs170115.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:37.11 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.51) |
| 17:37.15 | trumee | and i guess killall -9 dnsmasq in /usr/sbin/pcsuite-disable.sh will not be good idea. |
| 17:40.08 | MohammadAG | hey Venemo |
| 17:40.28 | Venemo | what's up? |
| 17:41.22 | MohammadAG | nothing much |
| 17:41.40 | RST38h | any depressing news today? :) |
| 17:42.16 | javispedro | many |
| 17:42.40 | derf | A friend of mine passed his interview with Nokia... for a position in the group that makes Ovi Maps. |
| 17:43.29 | derf | That depressed me, at least. |
| 17:43.34 | SpeedEvil | Do they supply the bike, clipboard, and GPS? |
| 17:44.10 | RST38h | derf: In Germany? |
| 17:45.57 | MohammadAG | I wonder how Nokia HQ is |
| 17:46.22 | derf | RST38h: Yes. |
| 17:46.39 | MohammadAG | - "My coffee machine is broken" - "WONTFIX" |
| 17:47.01 | RST38h | derf: Oh well, it is still in Germany, so impractical |
| 17:47.20 | RST38h | derf: But you can apply for Ovi Services jobs in Boston :) |
| 17:47.54 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 17:48.52 | Venemo | I have a Nokia-branded mug |
| 17:49.05 | Venemo | the Nokia logo is printed on the inside |
| 17:50.03 | RST38h | Venemo: Well, once you get really pissed off at Nokia, you can use it for urinal or something, rather than vent your feelings at TMO! |
| 17:50.42 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 17:51.37 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:51.41 | Venemo | RST38h: lol |
| 17:51.43 | Venemo | RST38h: your sense of humor is nice :D:D:D |
| 17:51.51 | Venemo | RST38h: although it's nowhere near lcuk's |
| 17:52.10 | RST38h | Venemo: So what has he proposed to use it for? |
| 17:53.43 | Venemo | RST38h: what? |
| 17:55.31 | javispedro | heh |
| 17:55.40 | javispedro | the I got a Pre thread was closed? |
| 17:55.58 | javispedro | preemptively I guess ;) |
| 17:57.33 | javispedro | according to slashdot, Meego is killing KDE ;) |
| 17:57.37 | javispedro | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/12/07/1719245 |
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| 17:59.32 | hrw|gone | javispedro: by doing zombie attack? |
| 18:02.29 | javispedro | bah, as usual, slashdot being trollish |
| 18:03.47 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.51) |
| 18:04.10 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, so, who's coding the media player again? me, you, lcuk and? |
| 18:04.33 | hrw|gone | heh.. I love that rant thread... 'we open maemo5 code by improving meego' |
| 18:05.46 | *** join/#maemo wizL (~radiator@93-103-192-160.dynamic.t-2.net) |
| 18:05.53 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 18:06.40 | hrw|gone | and it reminded me one thing which I have to do - mark all maemo bugs which I opened as wontfixgetlostsucker (if product.vendor==nokia) |
| 18:07.15 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG: sitrep |
| 18:07.19 | Robot101 | trumee: pong |
| 18:07.23 | crashanddie_ | preferably UI screenshot. |
| 18:07.34 | trumee | Robot101: any response from vox? |
| 18:07.42 | Robot101 | trumee: yeah, the guy called me an asshole yesterday! |
| 18:07.49 | trumee | Robot101: what!!!!!!!! |
| 18:07.54 | Robot101 | trumee: he apologised though - think he was having a bad day |
| 18:08.11 | Robot101 | (we exchanged quite a few mails) |
| 18:08.21 | trumee | Robot101: hmm. what was furious about? |
| 18:08.25 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@cs27022250.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:08.33 | trumee | Robot101: *was he |
| 18:08.47 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, yeah sure, sec |
| 18:08.49 | Robot101 | oh just a general rant about demanding board/shareholders/IRS/employees/etc etc and people who were all take take take |
| 18:09.21 | Robot101 | I explained the principle again - and he apologised - said he'd try and sort the source out by the end of Dec |
| 18:09.36 | Robot101 | bit weird though, I'm sure he spent more time mailing me than just asking a tech to put the src on the website |
| 18:09.36 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@dhcp05.algebra.tuwien.ac.at) |
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| 18:09.54 | trumee | Robot101: the source is out :) |
| 18:10.15 | crashanddie_ | what are you guys talking about? |
| 18:10.19 | markinfo | What programm is needed to take Photos? |
| 18:10.31 | sivang | lied to himself and continued with the thread. |
| 18:10.44 | trumee | crashanddie_: source code of vox-mobile app available on ovi store. |
| 18:11.00 | Robot101 | trumee: whereabouts? |
| 18:11.01 | trumee | crashanddie_:nice bit of code, adds MWI support to sip. |
| 18:11.09 | crashanddie_ | hmm |
| 18:11.16 | sivang | when someone responds to my posts, will I get a notification from tmo? |
| 18:11.32 | trumee | Robot101: he sent me an email yesterday. let me dig it out. |
| 18:11.40 | crashanddie_ | if you "watch" the thread |
| 18:12.00 | trumee | Robot101: https://mobile.voxcorp.net/voxmobile/maemo5/pool/main/v/vox-mobile/ |
| 18:12.30 | javispedro | a python hildon app no less. |
| 18:13.31 | javispedro | hm... python only in deps.. |
| 18:13.38 | Robot101 | trumee: eh... so why was he flaming me and didn't just give me the URL |
| 18:13.42 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 18:14.07 | trumee | Robot101: He just sent me an email yesterday so i guess he needed time to sort this out. |
| 18:14.37 | Robot101 | trumee: who was this? |
| 18:14.40 | trumee | Robot101: Phil |
| 18:15.10 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 18:15.12 | Robot101 | trumee: ah, I was talking to someone else - Mark |
| 18:15.26 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, just wondering, should I follow the same UI as the stock one? |
| 18:15.31 | MohammadAG | cause I can't find the damn icons it uses |
| 18:15.39 | trumee | Robot101: ah i see. Phil is the one who developed that code. |
| 18:15.50 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG: no need for an exact copy -- UI is probably copyright/patented or something |
| 18:15.56 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG: but something in the same spirit |
| 18:16.12 | luke-jr | crashanddie_: AFAIK, USA has judged UI to be non-copyrightable |
| 18:16.12 | javispedro | http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Maemo_5_Icon_List/html/media_player.html |
| 18:16.16 | crashanddie_ | MohammadAG: also, I was thinking about using some kind of visualisation. I'm sure alterego or kot can help with that. |
| 18:16.32 | MohammadAG | actually, http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Maemo_5_Icon_List/ |
| 18:16.35 | crashanddie_ | plus, an exact copy would be quirky |
| 18:16.37 | trumee | Robot101: Now, when are collabora people going to merge it into telepathy sip upstream? :p |
| 18:16.39 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, gstreamer can handle that too |
| 18:16.49 | pupnik | http://www.privetbank.com.ua/cablegate/index.html wikileaks cablegate torrent diffs, deletions, missing files, restored files |
| 18:16.50 | MohammadAG | lol javispedro didn't see that before I pasted the link |
| 18:17.07 | javispedro | has online docs bookmarked for obvious reasons... |
| 18:17.13 | crashanddie_ | yeah, but not well, last I checked a lot of dependencies were missing, MohammadAG |
| 18:17.13 | RST38h | Ho ho ho |
| 18:19.51 | MohammadAG | crashanddie_, someone got them working with some pipes |
| 18:19.52 | *** join/#maemo marcel_ (~marcels@5265C40E.cm-8.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
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| 18:26.02 | markinfo | I am looking for a new Tablet. I had nokia N810. Nokia n900 is too smal. What could you recommend? |
| 18:26.23 | SpeedEvil | too small in what way? |
| 18:26.57 | markinfo | it is hardly to read. Fine resolution but small, there is no Stylus, |
| 18:27.35 | markinfo | is there something like nokia n810 but more powerfull? |
| 18:27.42 | javispedro | n900 does have stylus. next one will not |
| 18:28.08 | jacekowski | markinfo: you can change font size |
| 18:28.15 | markinfo | well - there is many Phone and tablets. Not only Nokia. |
| 18:28.47 | markinfo | It would be the best to have the same desktop as here - XFCE. Is it possible? |
| 18:29.43 | markinfo | I do not like to learn many new Programs - just small Desktop with some application for calling. |
| 18:31.44 | *** join/#maemo Scald (~Odyssey@a88-112-48-117.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:33.53 | luke-jr | markinfo: nothing sane exists, unfortunately |
| 18:34.20 | luke-jr | markinfo: XFCE on N900 is possible, howeve |
| 18:34.58 | *** join/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:37.00 | trumee | Robot101: is that code interesting? |
| 18:37.33 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@193.61.17.36) |
| 18:39.34 | *** part/#maemo air (~brand@c-76-27-120-108.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:39.34 | Robot101 | trumee: I'll get someone to take a look |
| 18:39.44 | trumee | Robot101: nice |
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| 18:43.01 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 18:43.34 | pupnik | http://fukung.net/v/2855/vim.gif ubuntu releases 'vi assistant' |
| 18:43.47 | javispedro | oooooooooooold |
| 18:44.11 | javispedro | ( ;) ) |
| 18:44.50 | pupnik | ok |
| 18:45.50 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, UI came out shitty on the N900, sec, getting a designer on board |
| 18:46.16 | MohammadAG | QListWidgets don't work well on the N900 :/ |
| 18:47.06 | javispedro | lols |
| 18:47.23 | pupnik | Judge Howard Riddle of the City of Westminster Magistrates Court, denied Julian Assange bail today http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-wikileaks,0,2625246.story?track=rss |
| 18:47.29 | javispedro | the idiots at xda eventually got tired of trying to port webos to their htc hero by "editing inittab" so they started faking screenshots |
| 18:47.50 | RST38h | heh |
| 18:48.16 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 18:48.25 | javispedro | http://forums.precentral.net/2783080-post69.html |
| 18:49.00 | javispedro | I'm sure engadget will fall for it |
| 18:49.11 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@j71044.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 18:51.10 | *** join/#maemo JakDaRippa (~JakDaRipp@71-223-126-148.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 18:51.40 | MohammadAG | copying a UI is harder than making one |
| 18:53.45 | MohammadAG | Shouldn't use a QListWidget (cc crashanddie) http://i54.tinypic.com/1fa14z.jpg |
| 18:54.07 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:54.14 | alterego | First time I've seen webos |
| 18:54.45 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@curitiba.ic.unicamp.br) |
| 18:55.06 | MohammadAG | alterego, got a workaround/something similar to the media player's buttons in Qt? |
| 18:55.43 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-115-233.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:55.58 | alterego | I could do it quite easily ... |
| 18:56.12 | alterego | Wait which buttons? ;) |
| 18:56.56 | MohammadAG | alterego, take a look at the link above |
| 18:58.01 | alterego | Yeah, that shouldn't be too hard |
| 18:58.06 | alterego | I'd use QML too :P |
| 18:59.29 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@dD57679F7.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:00.30 | MohammadAG | alterego, I thought that wastes memory |
| 19:00.35 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 19:00.43 | alterego | No, no more than Qt .. |
| 19:00.56 | alterego | And with an opengl optimized canvas it should be nicer. |
| 19:01.22 | lcuk | desires line drawing in gl |
| 19:01.27 | javispedro | unfortunately on the n900 ... |
| 19:01.30 | lcuk | a forgotten art |
| 19:01.31 | javispedro | non fullscreen gl... |
| 19:01.45 | alterego | javispedro: is that a problem? |
| 19:01.50 | javispedro | it is slow. |
| 19:01.57 | alterego | Hmm |
| 19:02.06 | MohammadAG | especially if we add visualizations |
| 19:02.06 | javispedro | and you know why ;) |
| 19:02.15 | alterego | Yes, |
| 19:02.19 | alterego | That's annoying |
| 19:02.26 | lcuk | why? |
| 19:02.50 | lcuk | does already know, I just rather have it mentioned for others who are listening with interest |
| 19:03.21 | javispedro | the long version or the condensed one? ;) |
| 19:03.41 | alterego | I'm interested to hear both actually. |
| 19:03.52 | javispedro | bah, you evil. |
| 19:03.54 | alterego | chuckles |
| 19:04.01 | RST38h | Mohammad: You do not need or *want* to copy Nokia's Media Player UI |
| 19:04.05 | RST38h | Mohammad: it is atrocious |
| 19:04.22 | RST38h | Mohammad: Please, copy iPod / iTunes player instead, please |
| 19:04.26 | jacekowski | ehh |
| 19:04.39 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:04.41 | jacekowski | some guy thinks i'm master hacker and can hack every website |
| 19:04.52 | alterego | I suppose he's got a point .. |
| 19:04.54 | jacekowski | and he's linking me exploits and asking why they don't work |
| 19:05.00 | RST38h | Mohammad: (yes, I know all about iStuff being evil etc, but it is very usable, so mke use of it) |
| 19:05.04 | javispedro | jacekowski: s/hacker/cracker |
| 19:05.15 | RST38h | s/cracker/fucker |
| 19:05.21 | RST38h | and make it rest at that |
| 19:05.22 | javispedro | :) |
| 19:05.48 | MohammadAG | RST38h, I've never seen the iPod's music player |
| 19:06.51 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@p54B2A622.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:07.00 | RST38h | Mohammad: http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&biw=966&bih=568&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=ipod+ui&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= |
| 19:07.16 | *** part/#maemo iDont (~iDont@j71044.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 19:07.20 | RST38h | Mohammad: There is also an unfinished iTunes-like player project for Maemo. Let me look it up... |
| 19:07.38 | javispedro | tbh I don not like that UI much |
| 19:07.45 | RST38h | Mohammad: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30901 |
| 19:07.55 | javispedro | tbh also they maemo one and ipod one arent that different |
| 19:07.58 | lcuk | make a concepts thread |
| 19:08.01 | RST38h | javispedro: Well, it is way better than Maemo5 one |
| 19:08.03 | lcuk | discuss till blue in face |
| 19:08.10 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@j71044.upc-j.chello.nl) |
| 19:08.14 | lcuk | make multiple mockups |
| 19:08.15 | RST38h | lcuk: ...not. |
| 19:08.15 | lcuk | feel them |
| 19:08.22 | lcuk | qml should allow that? right? |
| 19:08.31 | RST38h | lcuk: Take Quasar and either fix or copy it. Period. |
| 19:08.50 | lcuk | the idea is to allow designers free reign *grin* |
| 19:08.54 | RST38h | no. |
| 19:09.01 | javispedro | nah, reinventing the wheel is funnier! (/me hopes alterego doesn't read this line) |
| 19:09.06 | RST38h | that will accomplish nothing |
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| 19:12.25 | MohammadAG | <lcuk> qml should allow that? right? << we don't want a slow UI on the N900 |
| 19:12.46 | RST38h | well, qml does not necessarily mean slow ui |
| 19:13.09 | RST38h | I would at least try qml, to assert how useful it is |
| 19:13.37 | RST38h | if it is, in fact, no slower than gtk+, using QML will speed up your UI development by an order of magnitude |
| 19:13.41 | alterego | javispedro: making better wheels is fun |
| 19:13.48 | Bash | o/ hi |
| 19:13.51 | nox- | moin |
| 19:13.58 | lcuk | RST38h, swings and roundabouts |
| 19:14.01 | MohammadAG | RST38h, and so will using Qt Designer |
| 19:14.08 | MohammadAG | (I'm sure Bash would like to help) |
| 19:14.09 | lcuk | gtk can accept .ui files |
| 19:14.17 | javispedro | has yet to try qml... |
| 19:14.18 | lcuk | or whatever they are |
| 19:14.19 | alterego | tbh, writing core apps in Qt is probably better than using gtk .. |
| 19:14.34 | javispedro | depends on wheter your primary target is m5 or meego |
| 19:14.39 | Bash | MohammadAG: what orientation will u be using? |
| 19:14.40 | javispedro | s/m5/fremantle |
| 19:14.51 | Bash | landscape? |
| 19:14.53 | MohammadAG | Bash, can you make up a quick UI concept? Probably in photoshop, both |
| 19:14.59 | MohammadAG | both :) |
| 19:15.05 | alterego | javispedro: why would that matter? Maemo 5 has better Qt support than meego anyway .. |
| 19:15.08 | MohammadAG | focus on buttons, instead of graphics for now |
| 19:15.13 | MohammadAG | buttons/widgets etc |
| 19:15.20 | Bash | location or design? |
| 19:15.28 | javispedro | alterego: not perfect either, and, is that true? |
| 19:15.48 | MohammadAG | location, a UI concept, how it will look, the same way any app is made :) |
| 19:15.51 | alterego | javispedro: well, yes. |
| 19:15.53 | MohammadAG | then when can add the eye candy |
| 19:16.05 | lolloo | hola! |
| 19:16.12 | alterego | javispedro: if you want to write for meego, at the moment you're basically stuck doing fullscreen apps or using mtf |
| 19:16.14 | RST38h | Mohammad: Tried Qt Designer. Worthless. |
| 19:16.35 | lolloo | I couldnt get Status menu in portrait mode to work , what do you think is wrong? |
| 19:16.37 | MohammadAG | RST38h, couple it with Qt Creator :) |
| 19:16.42 | RST38h | Mohammad: You will type the ui code fasterthan you can design it in the qt designer. The same goesfor modifications. |
| 19:17.03 | alterego | RST38h: depends who "you" are ;) |
| 19:17.10 | MohammadAG | reinstall the status menu using my deb and kill the status menu, then make sure you installed my desktop package |
| 19:17.11 | alterego | Though I do everything by hand myself .. |
| 19:17.33 | javispedro | RST38h: have you tried javafx? |
| 19:17.36 | alterego | You'll learn more if you do it that way too .. |
| 19:18.01 | RST38h | javispedro: no and not going to |
| 19:18.07 | lolloo | MohammadAG, is this one http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/portrait/hildon-status-menu/hildon-status-menu_0.3.39+0m5_armel.deb? |
| 19:18.10 | RST38h | alterego: does not matter |
| 19:18.16 | MohammadAG | writing by hand gives you more freedom, designing in the designer is significantly faster |
| 19:18.22 | Bash | k MohammadAG gimme 15 mins :) |
| 19:18.24 | MohammadAG | lolloo, yep |
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| 19:18.31 | RST38h | alterego: try designing a really good ui in qt designer (scalable etc) |
| 19:18.32 | lolloo | awesome |
| 19:18.39 | RST38h | alterego: see yourself failmiserably |
| 19:18.55 | RST38h | Meanwhile: "U.S. Celebrates Wikileaks Arrest By Announcing Press Freedom Day" |
| 19:19.02 | MohammadAG | Bash, we're not in a hurry |
| 19:19.05 | alterego | RST38h: I have, that's why I don't use it .. |
| 19:20.14 | RST38h | Mohammad: Not faster. Once you go from placing some buttons at absolute coordinates to using layouts with fillers (to get scalable UI), you will see that qt designer is not worth it |
| 19:20.28 | javispedro | argh |
| 19:20.34 | javispedro | suddenly remembers fillers |
| 19:20.41 | javispedro | *shudder *shudder* |
| 19:20.48 | javispedro | *faint* |
| 19:20.49 | RST38h | yea, not the best concept |
| 19:21.08 | RST38h | I think if Qt defined layouts in terms of HTML TABLEs, it would have more success |
| 19:21.23 | javispedro | that's what SWT designer did last time I saw it |
| 19:21.38 | javispedro | also known as grid layout |
| 19:21.47 | RST38h | heh |
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| 19:24.03 | lcuk | mandelUI would be interesting, defining the whole UI based on a set of coordinates within the complex plane :) |
| 19:24.34 | RST38h | KOffice kaput! |
| 19:25.07 | troulouliou | hi , is var/lib/dpkg some kind of tmpfs cause each time i do apt-get update i download everything |
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| 19:25.53 | MohammadAG | don't touch that directory |
| 19:26.02 | MohammadAG | /var/cache/apt/archives is the temp directory |
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| 19:26.35 | troulouliou | ok but it is volatile upon reboot ? |
| 19:26.52 | troulouliou | cause i have a really slow internet connection and each time i have to download 20 meg |
| 19:26.56 | troulouliou | or 10 |
| 19:28.03 | alterego | Urgh, so many bloody iPhone 4 adverts on TV it's making me quite annoyed :/ |
| 19:28.17 | javispedro | buy buy buy buy buy buy buy |
| 19:28.18 | alterego | Oh, that's better (mutes TV) |
| 19:28.23 | MohammadAG | lucky you, I still see 3G ones |
| 19:28.25 | javispedro | alterego: buy buy buy buy buy buy buy |
| 19:28.39 | RST38h | Angels we have heeeeard on high |
| 19:28.47 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:29.30 | alterego | I like QMLs layout strategy |
| 19:29.30 | javispedro | haha |
| 19:29.39 | alterego | You've got columns, rows and grids |
| 19:29.48 | alterego | But you can also use anchor points. |
| 19:29.55 | alterego | Which is cool |
| 19:30.45 | alterego | I'm working on scalable UI elements at the moment. |
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| 19:37.20 | johnsq | Hi |
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| 19:43.12 | alterego | Grrr .. |
| 19:45.44 | MohammadAG | same feeling; http://i53.tinypic.com/900oqe.jpg |
| 19:45.57 | javispedro | LOL |
| 19:46.53 | alterego | Noice |
| 19:47.25 | MohammadAG | well, setIcon() isn't the way to go then |
| 19:47.47 | RST38h | there should be scale there somewhere |
| 19:47.55 | RST38h | vaguely remembrs setting icons scale |
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| 19:48.18 | alterego | MohammadAG: you probably want to just make that an image rather than a button |
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| 19:48.24 | MohammadAG | how didn't I remember to set that |
| 19:48.26 | alterego | Then process the mouse button event. |
| 19:49.06 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I guess Qt must have an option to set the stock icon size to use |
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| 19:49.36 | troulouliou | could anybody explain me the problem with apt-get update on maemo , it always download several mega ... seems like no caching |
| 19:50.23 | nox- | thats just the package `index' (which keeps changing) |
| 19:51.54 | alterego | troulouliou: extras gets regenerated every half an hour |
| 19:52.27 | troulouliou | alterego: ho ok |
| 19:53.26 | troulouliou | and about aircrack , is it usable actually ? i get a weird error about iw but wireless tools is installed |
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| 19:57.31 | troulouliou | can i use hold with dpkg has under Debian to keep a package at a version ?? |
| 19:58.28 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 19:58.44 | MohammadAG | alterego, set this as a styleSheet for a QToolButton, background-color: a(0); |
| 19:58.52 | MohammadAG | watch Qt Creator segfault |
| 19:59.32 | javispedro | suggest you file that, could be a potential security bug |
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| 20:00.35 | MohammadAG | lol? |
| 20:00.46 | alterego | Heh |
| 20:00.47 | javispedro | css parsing related crash |
| 20:00.53 | javispedro | specially |
| 20:00.59 | javispedro | malformed css parsing related crash |
| 20:01.22 | *** part/#maemo qhubekela (~knoppix@41.211.32.82) |
| 20:01.22 | javispedro | or is it wellformed? |
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| 20:02.34 | alterego | I don't think so no. |
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| 20:10.30 | MohammadAG | well, that's solved, sorta |
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| 20:12.06 | MohammadAG | http://i53.tinypic.com/21ovrfd.jpg alterego :P |
| 20:14.24 | alterego | Neat |
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| 20:15.12 | MohammadAG | yeah, except it doesn't use layouts :P |
| 20:15.53 | MohammadAG | and I had to move the buttons pixel-by-pixel till they matched the background |
| 20:16.22 | alterego | Well, tbh, you should have been doing that all along :P |
| 20:16.36 | MohammadAG | grumbles |
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| 20:17.29 | alterego | grr |
| 20:17.41 | troulouliou | Hi does anybody have a good link for dual boot on maemo ? |
| 20:17.48 | troulouliou | i would like to test neopwn |
| 20:18.01 | jacekowski | http://xizhizhu.blogspot.com/2010/05/javascript-benchmarking-on-n900-pr12.html |
| 20:18.05 | MohammadAG | neopwn's just a kernel |
| 20:18.11 | jacekowski | i just found that in my referers |
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| 20:18.46 | troulouliou | MohammadAG: sure ? looks like another distri for N900 |
| 20:18.51 | troulouliou | with dfferent repos |
| 20:19.47 | MohammadAG | no, it's a kernel |
| 20:20.40 | troulouliou | mmm |
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| 20:21.53 | alterego | Final UI: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/qmote/Screenshot-20101207-201852.png |
| 20:22.16 | alterego | Well, except the close button, and I'm going to add a switch to dashboard button in the top left aswell .. |
| 20:23.19 | lbt | the #meego-meeting area is discussing (amongst other things) how we can make meego more inviting to maemo users |
| 20:23.29 | MohammadAG | sexy :P |
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| 20:23.33 | lbt | now we have a meego OBS that can (almost) build for fremantle |
| 20:23.46 | MohammadAG | aren't the UI buttons small though? |
| 20:23.48 | lbt | just in case anyone wanted to chat |
| 20:23.55 | alterego | MohammadAG: yes |
| 20:23.57 | alterego | They are a bit. |
| 20:24.05 | alterego | But it looks awesome .. |
| 20:24.13 | MohammadAG | lbt, good luck convincing users like me ;) |
| 20:24.15 | alterego | And I can use it well enough. So we'll see how many people complain. |
| 20:24.23 | MohammadAG | lurks |
| 20:24.43 | alterego | Much better than my original UI :D |
| 20:24.50 | MohammadAG | alterego, start a bugtracker, then when users say it's too small mark the bug as THATSWHATSHESAID |
| 20:24.57 | MohammadAG | feels childish, back to app |
| 20:25.09 | alterego | Heh |
| 20:25.39 | MohammadAG | btw |
| 20:25.54 | MohammadAG | do you think I should use icons from theme, or just add them to the resources file? |
| 20:27.33 | MohammadAG | and... here's my first problem, http://i52.tinypic.com/211uwcl.jpg :/ |
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| 20:27.53 | MohammadAG | (when clicked) |
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| 20:35.26 | RST38h | Mohammad: should be a separate clicked-icon, no? |
| 20:36.02 | MohammadAG | that's it? |
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| 20:36.40 | RST38h | scrolls back |
| 20:36.52 | RST38h | In the resource file, default to icons from theme :))) |
| 20:37.49 | MohammadAG | do you know what the button clicked image is called? |
| 20:38.00 | RST38h | no but I can look up |
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| 20:46.30 | MohammadAG | RST38h, looked, couldn't find it :) |
| 20:46.47 | RST38h | found a few alternaive icon themes, looking there |
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| 21:00.11 | alterego | nyargh |
| 21:00.26 | pupnik | hey |
| 21:00.32 | alterego | renders fine when using gl, renders glitchy without |
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| 21:20.33 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 21:20.49 | Venemo | hi again :) |
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| 21:23.13 | alterego | Aloha Venemo |
| 21:23.57 | Venemo | hey alterego :) |
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| 21:27.28 | MohammadAG | hmm, so if I have the maemo Qt SDK installed, I need another Qt Creator for MeeGo :/ |
| 21:27.39 | Venemo | why is that? |
| 21:27.59 | Venemo | I thought the same one can be used |
| 21:28.00 | MohammadAG | it's pulling in meego-sdk-qtcreator |
| 21:28.07 | MohammadAG | as per http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux#On_Ubuntu_or_Debian |
| 21:28.10 | Venemo | eh. |
| 21:28.17 | Venemo | lol |
| 21:29.30 | MohammadAG | root@mohammad-i5laptop:/home/mohammad# mad-admin create -f meego-core-armv7l-1.1No predefined target/runtime 'meego-core-armv7l-1.1' found. |
| 21:29.35 | MohammadAG | meh |
| 21:29.39 | Venemo | interesting |
| 21:29.50 | Venemo | MohammadAG: you're gonna do MeeGo dev now? :) |
| 21:30.10 | MohammadAG | just having a look |
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| 21:30.25 | rsc_ | hi all |
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| 21:31.02 | rsc_ | w00t_ are you here? |
| 21:31.12 | Venemo | ~seen w00t_ |
| 21:31.22 | infobot | w00t_ is currently on #maemo (7d 10h 35m 53s) #meego (7d 10h 35m 53s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 4d 4h 14m 32s, last said: 'oops'. |
| 21:31.42 | rsc_ | ty Venemo :) |
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| 21:32.33 | Venemo | rsc_: infobot is always helpful |
| 21:32.52 | MohammadAG | ~botsnack |
| 21:32.52 | infobot | aw, gee, MohammadAG |
| 21:32.57 | rsc_ | I reask for my problem: is there someone that know how start an application (if possible) instead the virtual keyboard? |
| 21:33.13 | javispedro | in Fremantle? |
| 21:33.19 | rsc_ | yes :) |
| 21:33.33 | Venemo | rsc_: check out Hildon Input Method Framework |
| 21:33.40 | javispedro | firstly, I smell trouble here -- can you describe what you want to do? |
| 21:33.45 | MohammadAG | Venemo, damn, you beat me to it |
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| 21:33.55 | MohammadAG | javispedro, probably a virtual keyboard replacement |
| 21:33.57 | rsc_ | ty Venemo, again |
| 21:34.10 | javispedro | MohammadAG: that would be valid, but.. |
| 21:34.18 | MohammadAG | it's the wrong way, I know |
| 21:34.28 | javispedro | rsc_: you want to replace the stock keyboard? |
| 21:34.28 | rsc_ | javispedro: I want to start FastSMS instead of virtual keyboard for writing sms |
| 21:34.44 | javispedro | looks up FastSMS |
| 21:35.12 | rsc_ | javispedro: it is an application for write sms using something like T9 |
| 21:35.13 | MohammadAG | T9 sms app |
| 21:35.26 | javispedro | ... as I thought, wrong answer then |
| 21:35.42 | javispedro | hm |
| 21:35.46 | javispedro | this is probably hard |
| 21:35.59 | rsc_ | eheh...nice news |
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| 21:36.08 | javispedro | didn't someone do a vertical input method? |
| 21:36.45 | rsc_ | yes...but only changing layout of virtual kb |
| 21:36.54 | rsc_ | (I think) |
| 21:37.08 | rsc_ | no code is executed |
| 21:37.09 | javispedro | na, existing vkb doesn't do portrait |
| 21:37.19 | javispedro | i'm quite sure I even saw the screenshot |
| 21:37.32 | javispedro | that is some boringwork but not terribly hard |
| 21:37.51 | Venemo | there's already a "portrait keyboard" in devel |
| 21:38.18 | javispedro | so, just merge it and FastSMS and ... instant win. |
| 21:38.29 | Venemo | yep! |
| 21:38.33 | Venemo | brb |
| 21:38.41 | javispedro | ta Venemo |
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| 21:38.56 | rsc_ | yes Venemo, I saw it and took a look to code... |
| 21:39.31 | rsc_ | but it seems to be something different...but perhaps I'm wronging |
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| 21:45.06 | rsc_ | in postinstall of "portrait keyboard" there are: |
| 21:45.15 | rsc_ | ./usr/bin/gconftool-2 -st string /apps/osso/inputmethod/default-plugins/finger hildon_im_onehand_fkb |
| 21:45.24 | rsc_ | ./usr/bin/gconftool-2 -st string /apps/osso/inputmethod/default-plugins/stylus hildon_im_onehand_fkb |
| 21:55.30 | rsc_ | thank you guys...perhaps you light the right way for solve my problem :) |
| 21:55.34 | MohammadAG | can someone guess the size of the font used in the media player start screen? |
| 21:55.46 | MohammadAG | (the size of "Music" "Videos" etc...) |
| 21:57.50 | alterego | 14px |
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| 22:02.24 | MohammadAG | alterego, looks smaller, doesn't Qt set Maemo fonts by default? |
| 22:03.28 | MohammadAG | alterego, 13px, but thanks :D |
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| 22:05.28 | Venemo | MohammadAG: yeah, it does |
| 22:06.00 | Venemo | MohammadAG: look at HildonFancyButton (renamed HeFancyButton in Hildon-Extras) |
| 22:08.27 | alterego | MohammadAG, Venemo: What would it take you guys to help with MeeGo development? |
| 22:08.45 | alterego | Basically, what are you waiting for? :) |
| 22:09.32 | ShadowJK | Maemo 5 is too usable, and MeeGo isn't, and I need a device for daily use :) |
| 22:09.56 | andre__ | wonders about the question and replaces "MeeGo" by "Android", "iPhone" and "Windows phone 7" |
| 22:10.10 | javispedro | WebOS!! WebOS!! |
| 22:10.22 | andre__ | damn, I forgot my HP stocks, true :-P |
| 22:10.42 | alterego | ShadowJK: understandable. |
| 22:10.59 | javispedro | let's see. |
| 22:11.41 | javispedro | in my brief experience with cs students, your average human prefers instanteneous reward over long term ones |
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| 22:12.00 | ShadowJK | Hopefully once we see MeeGo devices appear, they wont be locked or crippled so that the version they run is obsolete from a dev pov :) |
| 22:12.03 | alterego | javispedro: I agree. |
| 22:12.08 | Venemo | good night |
| 22:12.17 | javispedro | developing for meego, at this point, means you do not get to make the big post on tmo |
| 22:12.21 | Venemo | alterego: waiting for it to get into a usable state |
| 22:12.22 | Venemo | bb |
| 22:12.39 | *** join/#maemo Carneque (~IRC.duder@ip66-110-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 22:12.53 | ShadowJK | fixed external gps bugging with Ovi Maps, and submitted patch, which was rejected, and from looking at source code, same issue exists in MeeGo :D |
| 22:13.05 | galerien | Hi guys, I'm thinking about getting a nokia N900 for Xmas, anyone can tell me why I souldn't ? (if that's off topic, tell me, but I don't know where else to look for that kind of info) |
| 22:13.06 | javispedro | what source code? O.o |
| 22:13.12 | javispedro | ShadowJK^^ |
| 22:13.17 | *** join/#maemo Almehdi (~communi@c-af33e255.03-135-6c756c90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:13.20 | Carneque | galerien, what's your experience with linux? |
| 22:13.47 | galerien | Using it for 3 years now, only ubuntu but I can write awk and shell quite ok |
| 22:13.50 | javispedro | are we discussing the same thing in both channels? |
| 22:14.05 | MohammadAG | alterego, javispedro crashanddie http://i55.tinypic.com/wkr7si.jpg |
| 22:14.18 | javispedro | MohammadAG: one window made, 7 to go! |
| 22:14.36 | javispedro | still doesn't look pixel perfect |
| 22:14.42 | MohammadAG | 2 actually :P |
| 22:14.45 | Carneque | The new 5.0 is quite handy, working well with Nokia PC Suite... the downside is the lack of apps but alot of people are working on more all the time |
| 22:14.49 | ShadowJK | javispedro, gypsy is open source |
| 22:14.58 | alterego | MohammadAG: nice :) |
| 22:15.11 | MohammadAG | http://i51.tinypic.com/f2t155.jpg javispedro |
| 22:15.11 | alterego | Isn't the writing a bit far down? |
| 22:15.15 | javispedro | ShadowJK: ah, thought it was ovi bug |
| 22:15.17 | alterego | Move it up 10 pixels |
| 22:15.18 | galerien | Carneque, It's just that my HTC desire got stolen and I've been a nokia costumer for years (my company payed for the HTC) and I wanted to go back to the source ! |
| 22:15.22 | Carneque | I can't seem to get any good pictures out of the phone |
| 22:15.31 | MohammadAG | javispedro, patches welcome (see what I did there? :P) |
| 22:15.40 | alterego | MohammadAG: move the text up 10 pixels :P |
| 22:15.57 | javispedro | MohammadAG: the sane thing |
| 22:15.58 | ShadowJK | javispedro, nah, it also caused Sygic Maps to run at 1fps and consume 100% CPU |
| 22:16.09 | galerien | And I don't want an N8 because Sysbian is too far behind and it's not going to be supported long, as it's the last one... |
| 22:16.11 | Carneque | But I haven't tried pictures with the 5.0 update, some improved ISO bug fixes and such |
| 22:16.35 | javispedro | galerien: so you came here expecting Nokia support? |
| 22:16.47 | galerien | javispedro, no, just explaining myself |
| 22:17.01 | alterego | galerien: the N900 is already EOLd by Nokia |
| 22:17.07 | javispedro | smiles |
| 22:17.15 | galerien | EOLd ? |
| 22:17.22 | alterego | No longer supported. |
| 22:17.30 | GNUtoo|laptop | end of life d |
| 22:17.32 | Carneque | galerien, I think it's a unique phone that lets you play with linux more so go for it |
| 22:17.34 | MohammadAG | End of Life'd |
| 22:17.48 | MohammadAG | EoLd looks geekier |
| 22:18.17 | MohammadAG | maemo 5 can still have a life |
| 22:18.34 | MohammadAG | alterego, http://i54.tinypic.com/k54gae.jpg |
| 22:18.44 | Carneque | I have a question, when I am connected to the gprs network, it gives me an ip adress of 10.106.137.205 Is there a way to connect via SSH to that IP? |
| 22:19.01 | galerien | Carneque, ok, so, the only downside is that there isn't much application... ? And is maemo community still active (upgrade and stuff) or are you guys the last resistants ^^ |
| 22:19.10 | kerio | Carneque: depends on your carrier |
| 22:19.16 | alterego | MohammadAG: another 10 :P |
| 22:19.19 | Carneque | KPN in holland |
| 22:19.35 | alterego | Mohactually no. |
| 22:19.36 | Carneque | I am also interested in some kind of minute tracking app |
| 22:19.40 | javispedro | alterego: check your n900 |
| 22:19.41 | alterego | MohammadAG: actually no, that is dead on |
| 22:19.43 | javispedro | alterego: that. |
| 22:19.47 | jacekowski | Carneque: no |
| 22:19.51 | jacekowski | Carneque: it's behind a nat |
| 22:19.54 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p549FE3AF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:20.07 | ShadowJK | 443 uses in this channel... |
| 22:20.20 | javispedro | hum |
| 22:20.38 | javispedro | we are decaying vs #meego user count since? |
| 22:20.43 | javispedro | ;) |
| 22:21.37 | MohammadAG | alterego, sure about that? |
| 22:22.03 | Carneque | Has anyone had any success writing apps using APIs of different carriers? |
| 22:22.34 | alterego | MohammadAG: yes, it looks weird in the stock ui too :P |
| 22:22.50 | alterego | I'm measuring to the curve of the headphone lead |
| 22:22.57 | alterego | You can't be anymore than a pixel off |
| 22:24.05 | MohammadAG | alterego, 10 pixels is a lot |
| 22:24.29 | alterego | MohammadAG: don't move it from the last screenshot. |
| 22:24.35 | alterego | The last one you posted was dead on .. |
| 22:24.46 | alterego | Ignore me telling you to push it up another 10 :P |
| 22:24.53 | MohammadAG | alterego, feel free to measure again on device, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer |
| 22:24.59 | MohammadAG | got it :) |
| 22:25.17 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface2 (~user5330@32.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:25.36 | *** join/#maemo Mece_ (~mece@YYMYCCXLIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:25.46 | mece | MohammadAG, could you point me towards the file I need to get my fm transmitter boosted? |
| 22:26.04 | MohammadAG | jacekowski.org |
| 22:26.23 | MohammadAG | for the modified / illegal FMTXD |
| 22:26.46 | mece | what does that one dp? |
| 22:26.48 | mece | do? |
| 22:26.53 | MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/PR1.3/fmtx-si4713.ko for the stock module w/o power lock http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/PR1.3/fmtx-si4713.ko |
| 22:26.54 | mece | I just want 118 |
| 22:27.00 | MohammadAG | it locks to 120 |
| 22:27.04 | mece | oh :) |
| 22:27.12 | mece | the one from jace? |
| 22:27.40 | mece | erm |
| 22:27.40 | MohammadAG | yep |
| 22:28.42 | MohammadAG | alterego, try the binary, clicking the button makes it look ugly :/ |
| 22:28.43 | jacekowski | mine locks to 120 power |
| 22:28.57 | jacekowski | and modifies frequency range |
| 22:29.11 | jacekowski | and will work with headphones and usb cable plugged in |
| 22:29.53 | mece | :) |
| 22:30.04 | mece | so what do I do with it? |
| 22:30.06 | kerio | mine goes up to 11 |
| 22:30.10 | mece | it's a binary it seems |
| 22:30.16 | MohammadAG | /usr/sbin/fmtxd |
| 22:30.24 | MohammadAG | you should be able to figure out what to do :P |
| 22:30.29 | mece | :D |
| 22:30.30 | MohammadAG | don't forget to chmod +x, it gets messy |
| 22:31.30 | MohammadAG | yes, it's closed source from Nokia |
| 22:31.44 | MohammadAG | modifying it is illegal... oh well :P |
| 22:32.04 | mece | heheh |
| 22:32.05 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 22:32.10 | mece | ftw! |
| 22:32.29 | jacekowski | no it's not |
| 22:32.43 | jacekowski | it's very legal |
| 22:32.54 | jacekowski | as long as i don't share with anybody |
| 22:33.43 | Carneque | Thanks guys for the answers, have a good one! Nite! |
| 22:34.26 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, lol |
| 22:34.59 | MohammadAG | wishes he could mod rtcom-call-ui.launch to remove proximity blanking |
| 22:36.24 | *** join/#maemo incar (~incar@pa58-109-185-218.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 22:36.48 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:37.15 | jacekowski | it's not in rtcom-call-ui.launch |
| 22:37.19 | jacekowski | it's in rtcom-call-ui |
| 22:38.59 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@64.221.243.154.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:43.14 | trumee | MohammadAG: you replaced icons in the mediaplayer? |
| 22:45.23 | *** join/#maemo timeless_webchat (58730824@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.115.8.36) |
| 22:57.38 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: sure? I said same, then changed my mind |
| 22:58.06 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:58.11 | jacekowski | .launch is a symlink |
| 22:58.22 | jacekowski | but now you confused me |
| 22:58.25 | jacekowski | maybe it's other way |
| 22:58.40 | jacekowski | .launch is app and without .launch is a launcher |
| 22:58.41 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 22:59.18 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ll `which osso-addressbook` |
| 22:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2010-06-23 05:10 /usr/bin/osso-addressbook -> maemo-invoker |
| 23:00.52 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 23:06.27 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:10.37 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-12-06.log.html#t2010-12-06T13:54:00 |
| 23:11.44 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 23:13.13 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: why you want to disable that sensor? |
| 23:13.59 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: because there may be simple way of doing that with LD_PRELOAD and hooking into fopen/open |
| 23:14.10 | MohammadAG | it wastes too much swap |
| 23:14.23 | jacekowski | proximity sensor wastes swap? |
| 23:14.31 | jacekowski | how |
| 23:14.32 | jacekowski | what |
| 23:14.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | ???? |
| 23:14.51 | MohammadAG | yes, it calls mce to lock the screen, and apparently, that's usually swapped during a call |
| 23:15.13 | MohammadAG | actually, killing all of mce integration with the phone app would be nice, other than the vibra |
| 23:15.28 | jacekowski | so how would you lock screen then? |
| 23:15.38 | MohammadAG | I don't want to lock it |
| 23:15.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | haha, the proximity sensor is dealt with in mce anyway |
| 23:16.06 | jacekowski | can anybody check how big is mce? |
| 23:16.08 | jacekowski | in memory |
| 23:17.46 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, you don't need to compare values |
| 23:17.58 | DocScrutinizer | # Note: the name should not include the "lib"-prefix |
| 23:18.00 | DocScrutinizer | Modules=display;keypad;vibrator;led;battery;filter-brightness-als;inactivity;alarm;accelerometer;callstate;camera;homekey;audiorouting |
| 23:18.08 | DocScrutinizer | from mce.ini |
| 23:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest you play a bit with this line |
| 23:18.24 | MohammadAG | lock the screen, time how much it takes form when the lock switch is pressed till the screen is locked |
| 23:18.25 | MohammadAG | do the same during a call |
| 23:18.26 | jacekowski | i just need to know it's memory footprint |
| 23:18.39 | jacekowski | because it may be mlocked if it's not too big |
| 23:19.03 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: tell me where to find a decent ps on this shit |
| 23:19.12 | DocScrutinizer | then I tell you about footprint |
| 23:19.52 | jacekowski | top |
| 23:19.57 | DocScrutinizer | fsck |
| 23:20.17 | DocScrutinizer | top is useless as well |
| 23:20.51 | DocScrutinizer | maybe htop |
| 23:20.59 | DocScrutinizer | but it really pisses me off |
| 23:21.42 | DocScrutinizer | tell me which *-gnu pkg to install to get decent ps |
| 23:22.21 | jacekowski | bash |
| 23:22.25 | jacekowski | and coreutil |
| 23:22.26 | jacekowski | s |
| 23:23.09 | *** join/#maemo shikamaru (~shikamaru@mandriva/developer/shikamaru) |
| 23:24.42 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@mm-4-132-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by) |
| 23:24.49 | BCMM | yeah, BB's ps and top are slightly upsetting |
| 23:25.22 | BCMM | jacekowski: you missed the bit where you have to work out where the heck coreutils got installed to and fix your $PATH |
| 23:31.27 | alterego | So just finished my Qml xbox media remote app, upload it to -devel tomorrow. |
| 23:31.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | huh? |
| 23:31.38 | alterego | Now I have to think of something else small todo |
| 23:32.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | I got nash and coreutils and proper path |
| 23:32.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | but no ps |
| 23:32.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | neither gps or whatelse |
| 23:33.26 | alterego | g'night folks |
| 23:34.33 | DocScrutinizer | s/nash/bash |
| 23:38.03 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 2010-07-26 22:57 ptx -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/ptx |
| 23:38.05 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 2010-07-26 22:57 pwd -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/pwd |
| 23:38.22 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 23:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 2010-07-26 22:57 printf -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/printf |
| 23:38.28 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 2010-07-26 22:57 ptx -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/ptx |
| 23:38.46 | DocScrutinizer | no ps |
| 23:38.56 | jacekowski | sad |
| 23:39.43 | jacekowski | but well |
| 23:39.50 | jacekowski | all ps does is parse couple files in /proc/pid/ |
| 23:39.55 | jacekowski | like stat |
| 23:39.59 | jacekowski | and couple others |
| 23:40.03 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog1 (~timh@119.11.12.189) |
| 23:40.11 | jacekowski | but i'm going to sleep now |
| 23:40.13 | jacekowski | good night |
| 23:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# help |
| 23:40.20 | DocScrutinizer | bash: help: command not found |
| 23:40.21 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ps --help |
| 23:40.23 | DocScrutinizer | BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) multi-call binary |
| 23:40.24 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 23:40.53 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# which pwd |
| 23:40.55 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/gnu/pwd |
| 23:41.56 | DocScrutinizer | >:-( |
| 23:42.25 | kerio | ~bacon DocScrutinizer |
| 23:42.25 | infobot | ACTION goes Footloose on DocScrutinizer, even though its illegal |
| 23:43.12 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache search ps|wc -l |
| 23:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | 547 |
| 23:48.39 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, jacekowski |
| 23:48.42 | DocScrutinizer | 25364 root 701 15 -5 5476 2156 1848 S 0.0 0.9 13:38.56 /sbin/mce --force-syslog |
| 23:49.04 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 23:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | and I don't think mlocking it is a good idea. Basically there's too much mlocked shit already |
| 23:51.34 | DocScrutinizer | I also doubt the sense in disabling proximity blanking all together, just because it's allegedly too slow |
| 23:54.42 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-2-134.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 23:56.10 | DocScrutinizer | who's maintainer of bash3? |
| 23:56.50 | DocScrutinizer | could the one pretty please revert the config option that broke bash's builtin help?! |
| 23:57.27 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in bash trying to compete with messybox :-( |
