| 00:00.45 | nomis | chem|st: in http://www.ladyada.net/media/tvbgone/firmwarev12.zip is a WORLDcodes.c file where the codes are stored. They do some funky compression like thing which is a bit hard to track down. |
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| 00:11.29 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: I used Irreco on one N900, and the lirc daemon listening to that tcp port, on another N900 which sits as a proxy directly in front of the TV set. Works like a charm :-D |
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| 00:12.33 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: all I had to do was change "localhost" to "<IP-of-proxy>" on the remote N900 irreco config |
| 00:13.32 | DocScrutinizer | plus of course configure proxy accordingly to use the correct LircDevice |
| 00:13.39 | DocScrutinizer | and start it |
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| 00:17.21 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | PR1.3 has been released. See ~pr1.3 |
| 00:17.23 | chem|st | I am looking for powerbutton lirc codes |
| 00:17.47 | chem|st | nomis: no it doesn't |
| 00:17.58 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:18.06 | nomis | chem|st: ...or raw codes :) |
| 00:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: I have no f'ing clue what you're talking about |
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| 00:19.00 | chem|st | nomis: you just need the lirc codes for all power buttons... |
| 00:19.17 | chem|st | in case of n900 you are not limited to 230 buttons |
| 00:19.49 | DocScrutinizer | omg, now I get it |
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| 00:20.11 | chem|st | (qt)irreco is able to macro-master all codes on a single button and that I wanna use for good |
| 00:20.25 | nomis | chem|st: yesh, but LIRC forces you to put them into different configuration files, since each file has its own encoding scheme for the individual codes. I am talking about different IR pulses to encode 1's and 0's as well as attention-pulses. |
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| 00:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | shakes head |
| 00:21.29 | chem|st | nomis: the LG one and the Terratec I am looking at look just the same... |
| 00:21.32 | nomis | chem|st: ok, yeah, I did not think about macros. |
| 00:22.05 | nomis | chem|st: look at WorldCodes.c - there are tons of different pulse schemes, there are even different IR-modulation frequencies. |
| 00:22.08 | DocScrutinizer | useless effort |
| 00:22.32 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: why? |
| 00:22.34 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: yes. So what? |
| 00:22.49 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: where is the point where I lost you? |
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| 00:22.51 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: range of N900 is 3m at best |
| 00:23.24 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: which is enough for e.g. restaurants. |
| 00:23.45 | DocScrutinizer | if you think so |
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| 00:23.57 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: I know... but probing some codes while leaving for the toilet at a friends doesn't harm does it? |
| 00:24.01 | nomis | sure, if you're trying to switch all tv sets in a best buy then you're better of building dedicated hardware. |
| 00:24.13 | nomis | better off even. |
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| 00:24.24 | timeless_mbp | so um |
| 00:24.33 | timeless_mbp | can someone get me the menu code for my stupid dvr? |
| 00:24.39 | timeless_mbp | the remote died and all i have is an n900 :( |
| 00:25.01 | timeless_mbp | i have codes for power, and most items, the one i don't have is the one that lets me access my list of recorded programming :( |
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| 00:25.32 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: model of dvr and remote? |
| 00:25.32 | joga | isn't there a database of those somewhere? |
| 00:25.40 | nomis | timeless_mbp: did you find a suitable LIRC config file? |
| 00:25.41 | chem|st | joga: not for all |
| 00:25.53 | timeless_mbp | handan vc-7700 pvr |
| 00:26.16 | timeless_mbp | how would i find the remote thing? |
| 00:26.24 | timeless_mbp | nomis: i found a config for a related model |
| 00:26.35 | timeless_mbp | but it didn't have the program list menu tiem |
| 00:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | the building of a proper codeset is rather trivial, when you approach it the hw centric way. There's a limited number of controller chips, each of which has 2,3, or 4 addr pins to bind the chip to a certain type of appliance. Then there are also some addr bits for manufacturer, and the remaning usually 6 (iirc) bits rae predefined, there's only one valid power key pattern per chip |
| 00:26.39 | timeless_mbp | s/tiem/item/ |
| 00:26.41 | nomis | timeless_mbp: http://lirc.sourceforge.net/remotes/ might be a good starting point. |
| 00:27.42 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: what controller chips? That usually is an IR demodulator tied to a pin of the appliance processor. |
| 00:28.05 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: have you found any 'vantage hd 7100' codes for that at it is the same build |
| 00:28.15 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: BS, in the remote you have no demodulator. You got a specialized chip with a LED |
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| 00:28.43 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: oh, you're talking about the remote. |
| 00:28.54 | DocScrutinizer | there's a limited number of such chips |
| 00:29.49 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: and your conclusion from that fact is? |
| 00:30.50 | DocScrutinizer | my conclusion is that your approach to collect random code files is unnecessarily complicated |
| 00:31.16 | timeless | nmis: it's a crappy starting point. and i've been there |
| 00:31.24 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: and your approach would be? |
| 00:31.37 | nomis | timeless_mbp: yeah, granted. |
| 00:31.55 | DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above, the hw centric approach, loking into the datasheets of available controller chips |
| 00:32.02 | timeless_mbp | nomis: i'd rather someone write something which rotates through a series of pulses |
| 00:32.07 | timeless_mbp | and asks me if any of them did something |
| 00:32.20 | timeless_mbp | can you do that? :) |
| 00:32.28 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: that's what I suggested some weeks ago |
| 00:32.44 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/IRMP implements 20 different protocols (IR pulse encoding schemes) which have up to 16 bits of ID codes and up to 16 bits of key codes. Have fun iterating through these. |
| 00:32.56 | timeless_mbp | nomis: so... |
| 00:33.04 | timeless_mbp | if there are vaguely standard power buttons |
| 00:33.08 | timeless_mbp | one per protocol |
| 00:33.11 | timeless_mbp | then it's pretty easy |
| 00:33.19 | timeless_mbp | first you loop through protocols trying to kill or start the device |
| 00:33.25 | timeless_mbp | then having found the right one |
| 00:33.30 | timeless_mbp | you loop through codes |
| 00:33.33 | nomis | timeless_mbp: see above, there is a nice collection for the open source tvbgone hardware. *That* would be a good starting point. |
| 00:33.45 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: so what's your way of having fun? iterating thru random files that have zillions of doublettes and never get the complete code set? |
| 00:33.54 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: with about 190 codes you get 90% of all TVs |
| 00:34.07 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: just fix my stupid dvr :) |
| 00:34.08 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: I am talking about WORLDcodes.c |
| 00:34.16 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 00:34.19 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: ok I am back on that |
| 00:34.31 | DocScrutinizer | I'm talking about 5th of april 1998 |
| 00:34.39 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: that has all the information needed. It just is not easily suitable for LIRC. |
| 00:34.43 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: you may send me your hardware and I try to fix it |
| 00:35.00 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: geoping |
| 00:35.07 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, this discussion starts to get boring. CYA |
| 00:35.33 | nomis | duh. |
| 00:37.02 | nomis | I just wonder why nobody implemented Tvbgone for n900 yet, where people have asked for this for ages and it supposedly is so easy. |
| 00:37.19 | nomis | anyway, I appreciate anyone attemting this. |
| 00:38.45 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: have you got some codes like up and down? |
| 00:38.52 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: yeah |
| 00:39.03 | timeless_mbp | i have arrows, numbers, and a bunch of others |
| 00:39.09 | timeless_mbp | just not <program list> |
| 00:39.12 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: I need the arrows pls |
| 00:39.35 | chem|st | ah not menu is missing? program list |
| 00:39.37 | timeless_mbp | how about i push the file i have and you figure out what the arrows are? |
| 00:39.41 | timeless_mbp | program list |
| 00:39.45 | chem|st | sure |
| 00:40.09 | chem|st | have you tried all the codes? |
| 00:40.19 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 00:40.24 | chem|st | from close? |
| 00:40.42 | chem|st | so if I hit on douplets I can figure out |
| 00:41.00 | nomis | btw. the logitech harmony remotes are backed by a fantastic database, which unfortunately is very much proprietary. You can configure them by sending some random codes to their server and get a list of matching remote models. |
| 00:41.43 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: have you tried all button codes from your LircDevice? or did you just try random remote definitions from Irreco? |
| 00:41.44 | timeless_mbp | ok, where does irreco stores its files? |
| 00:42.04 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: MyDocs/irreco/ |
| 00:42.04 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: do you know how bloody horrible irreco is? |
| 00:42.08 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: ~user/MyDocs/irreco |
| 00:42.18 | pupnik | approve of tvbgone |
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| 00:42.28 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: yes I now |
| 00:42.54 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: geopong 49.43891,7.76877 |
| 00:42.57 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: i have a file Handan_DVB-C_5000 |
| 00:43.19 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: that is the one shipped with lirc DB |
| 00:43.23 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: hrm, i wonder if i have anyone in the office going there |
| 00:43.32 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: less /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* |
| 00:43.46 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: that's the file |
| 00:43.49 | timeless_mbp | and there's no less |
| 00:43.56 | timeless_mbp | (Sold separately) |
| 00:44.01 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: when did your dual-N900 trick, did you look at what actually gets transferred there? Button-IDs referring to some lirc config file in the remote N900? Or complete encoding information? |
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| 00:44.31 | nomis | timeless_mbp: "more" works :) |
| 00:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | no I didn't look, as I've seen the info in lirc docs previously |
| 00:44.53 | timeless_mbp | nomis: so, if you have that file, do you need it from me? |
| 00:44.57 | chem|st | nomis: on lirc0 udp you send dircet codes usualy |
| 00:45.00 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: no |
| 00:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | and afaik it's symbolic button names |
| 00:45.05 | timeless_mbp | good |
| 00:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | the codes are specified in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* |
| 00:45.42 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.45 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.46 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:46.13 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: so you have to put these config files on the "remote" N900 as well as on your "local" N900 then. Ok. |
| 00:46.14 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: what I am looking for is the vantage/handan/globis/something same build atm |
| 00:46.27 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
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| 00:47.21 | DocScrutinizer | for creating a new button you need those defs in cfg file on remote as well. For operating a ready-made remote you don't need them anymore |
| 00:47.33 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: you can do both... the button pointer is nothing more than a pointer to the device file |
| 00:47.48 | DocScrutinizer | may |
| 00:47.50 | DocScrutinizer | be |
| 00:49.32 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: nick highlight me when you want my attn |
| 00:51.22 | nomis | I was hoping that one could send the information from the config file head via that protocol. Then a standalone tv-b-gone app would be easier and would not necessarily involve lots of config files. |
| 00:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: lazy sucker, did you look into /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* ? Have you checked if there's a button name like "proglist"? |
| 00:52.18 | timeless_mbp | no such button |
| 00:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | what's the name of the controller chip def file you got there, first of all? |
| 00:52.57 | nomis | timeless_mbp: could you put that file into a pastebin? |
| 00:53.16 | timeless_mbp | nomis: pastebin=pain, gimme a bit |
| 00:53.46 | nomis | timeless_mbp: I recommend installing "pastebinit" on your laptop, not sure if it is available for the n900 itself though :) |
| 00:54.30 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: go to download from DB go to handan.. there it is you lazy bastard! :) |
| 00:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: it is |
| 00:54.42 | nomis | ah cool. |
| 00:55.04 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: ??? |
| 00:55.26 | chem|st | if you do not have that in irreco I have it in qtirreco ;) |
| 00:55.58 | chem|st | just found it in the database and had a look at qtirreco and found it |
| 00:56.06 | javispedro | hah! |
| 00:56.11 | javispedro | I just found a leak |
| 00:56.15 | javispedro | evil, evil javispedro. |
| 00:56.23 | chem|st | if you are looking for remotes you need the remote model not the dvr model |
| 00:56.25 | timeless_mbp | irreco's ui for db stuff is a disaster |
| 00:56.36 | timeless_mbp | how the **** would i know the remote model? |
| 00:56.44 | DocScrutinizer | throws some hemp and pitch at javispedro |
| 00:56.45 | timeless_mbp | i have to guess the category for the <whatever> |
| 00:56.50 | timeless_mbp | which is totally random |
| 00:56.58 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: if you are downloading finished remotes with buttons you may look for the device you want to handle |
| 00:57.25 | nomis | chem|st: is the available database browsable via web somewhere? |
| 00:57.26 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: ok, in irreco where the heck is the db thing? |
| 00:57.44 | DocScrutinizer | in the intrnetz? |
| 00:57.52 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: have youy got things like digibox? |
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| 00:58.08 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: what DocScrutinizer said ;) |
| 00:58.23 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: sorry |
| 00:58.28 | timeless_mbp | i don't have internetz |
| 00:58.30 | timeless_mbp | i have irreco |
| 00:58.36 | timeless_mbp | or however they spelz it |
| 00:58.55 | timeless_mbp | in irreco the only thing i see under handan is the 5000 thing |
| 00:58.55 | DocScrutinizer | so youre doomed, loser! |
| 00:59.24 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: I got two options to download remotes, one shows brands and one shows kind of hardware |
| 00:59.26 | DocScrutinizer | irreco downloads new remote definitions from internet |
| 00:59.39 | chem|st | nomis: yes |
| 00:59.42 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: my phone is connected to the internet |
| 00:59.51 | timeless_mbp | but as a user, all i see is irreco |
| 01:00.00 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: EYES TO ME... |
| 01:00.00 | DocScrutinizer | sighs |
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| 01:00.09 | javispedro | when all you see is irreco... |
| 01:00.10 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: ok |
| 01:00.18 | timeless_mbp | [ignoring DocScrutinizer ] |
| 01:00.24 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: you got the thing by hardware? |
| 01:00.29 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 01:00.37 | timeless_mbp | let's say i have nothing running on my n900 |
| 01:00.40 | timeless_mbp | and the dvr is on |
| 01:00.45 | timeless_mbp | and has cable running through it |
| 01:00.53 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: there, fix applied! I was leaking an entire pixmap no less! |
| 01:00.58 | nomis | chem|st: can you point me to it? My google-fu fails me at the moment. |
| 01:01.04 | javispedro | prays for the poor users |
| 01:01.28 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: what do you want me to do? |
| 01:01.36 | myu | ok so is this easy debian thin |
| 01:01.39 | myu | g |
| 01:01.42 | myu | like a kernel? |
| 01:01.43 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: you're amazingly obdurate to accept help |
| 01:02.09 | timeless_mbp | is totally confused |
| 01:02.26 | timeless_mbp | oh, and i'm ignoring DocScrutinizer per instructions from chem|st |
| 01:02.28 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: create a button with your damn code... the remote file is BN59-00685A |
| 01:02.50 | DocScrutinizer | in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* |
| 01:02.53 | javispedro | myu: no. it's more like a chroot. |
| 01:02.54 | DocScrutinizer | X-P |
| 01:03.28 | myu | oh I was afraid it was a kernel |
| 01:03.31 | myu | ill try it out now |
| 01:03.44 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/Handan_DVB-C_5000 is the file i had |
| 01:04.11 | timeless_mbp | what the heck is BN59...? |
| 01:04.17 | timeless_mbp | sorry, end user here |
| 01:04.18 | myu | its the code on your remote |
| 01:04.22 | chem|st | the remote you are looking for |
| 01:04.24 | myu | dont use the tv code |
| 01:04.27 | myu | use the remote code |
| 01:04.28 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: in irreco menu you got a button "download remote" which gets you predefined complete remotes - those may or may not have the button you need |
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| 01:05.09 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: we are looking for the blue butoon right? |
| 01:05.24 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 01:05.33 | timeless_mbp | it's a button labeled "PVR" on the physical remote... |
| 01:05.39 | chem|st | yeah |
| 01:05.40 | timeless_mbp | do you want a picture of the remote? |
| 01:05.46 | timeless_mbp | is confused |
| 01:05.49 | timeless_mbp | again, end user here |
| 01:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | in "edit remote" you can create new buttons, and select functions for them, from the set of functions defined in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* which you can download in "edit remote" menu by "Download from LircDB" |
| 01:05.53 | timeless_mbp | my n900 has nothing running |
| 01:06.02 | timeless_mbp | walk me through it by telling me what application to open |
| 01:06.06 | timeless_mbp | what buttons to click |
| 01:06.08 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 01:06.09 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: go in edit remote mode |
| 01:06.14 | timeless_mbp | in which application? |
| 01:06.24 | timeless_mbp | really, i don't have anything open, stop jumping around |
| 01:06.31 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: HELL, isn't that what I just did?? |
| 01:06.38 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: ok now I get it... |
| 01:06.39 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: he told me to ignore you |
| 01:06.46 | DocScrutinizer | fsckoff |
| 01:06.47 | timeless_mbp | i'm going to ignore you until he tells me to stop |
| 01:06.56 | timeless_mbp | sorry, end users can't handle overload |
| 01:07.03 | javispedro | lemming mode! |
| 01:07.04 | timeless_mbp | and it's 3am! |
| 01:07.07 | DocScrutinizer | I can't handle morons |
| 01:07.08 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: do what he said! NOW! grml |
| 01:07.29 | timeless_mbp | goes to try to figure out what <he> said |
| 01:07.30 | javispedro | should be doing something else. |
| 01:07.45 | timeless_mbp | launches Irreco |
| 01:07.52 | timeless_mbp | taps system menu |
| 01:07.55 | pupnik | that's always a difficult thing to work out javispedro |
| 01:07.57 | chem|st | the remote is stored as digibox->handan->your device model |
| 01:07.58 | timeless_mbp | taps Download remote |
| 01:08.03 | ieatlint | this is like some fun passive aggressive argument going on here |
| 01:08.18 | myu | so irreco can handle set-top boxes? |
| 01:08.18 | chem|st | ieatlint: shut the fsck up! |
| 01:08.21 | timeless_mbp | there's no Handan under digitbox |
| 01:08.27 | chem|st | myu: no |
| 01:08.29 | timeless_mbp | s/digitbox/digibox/ |
| 01:08.32 | myu | aw =\ |
| 01:08.33 | ieatlint | chem|st: them's fightin' words |
| 01:08.36 | timeless_mbp | did you skip a step? like <clicking refresh> ? |
| 01:08.48 | myu | its still a great app tho |
| 01:08.52 | myu | one of my favorites |
| 01:08.56 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: you may need to scroll up as it starts butt up for some reason |
| 01:08.57 | myu | easyily |
| 01:09.03 | myu | I love trolling my schools displays with it |
| 01:09.13 | timeless_mbp | digibox has: |
| 01:09.21 | myu | and its also usefull cause I lost a few remotes =| |
| 01:09.27 | timeless_mbp | atv+, division, eurovox e5100, hitachi |
| 01:09.34 | javispedro | .oO(And to think I got flamed when I said that having ir-tx ONLY -- no rx -- was a stupid thing to do because no end user would be able to set it up) |
| 01:09.35 | timeless_mbp | kaon, k-e2270co, maximum, |
| 01:09.45 | timeless_mbp | samsung, sharp, sky, thomson, Yes |
| 01:09.48 | timeless_mbp | <eoLIST> |
| 01:09.57 | timeless_mbp | did you skip a step? like tapping refresh? |
| 01:10.26 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: you need to scroll as it starts at the bottom for some reason |
| 01:10.39 | timeless_mbp | that's the *ENTIRE* Digibox list |
| 01:10.47 | timeless_mbp | screen captures if you don't believe me... |
| 01:11.01 | timeless_mbp | did you want me to tap refresh? |
| 01:11.02 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: I open up and see sky, tata sky, topfield, vestel |
| 01:11.15 | chem|st | yeah |
| 01:11.21 | chem|st | hit refresh |
| 01:11.21 | timeless_mbp | taps refresh |
| 01:11.45 | timeless_mbp | no change |
| 01:11.49 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: try scroll up AND down |
| 01:11.51 | timeless_mbp | what version of irreco should i be using? |
| 01:11.58 | myu | qt |
| 01:12.02 | myu | dont get the older one |
| 01:12.06 | myu | its qtirreco |
| 01:12.24 | timeless_mbp | myu: you're being ignored because i'm listening to chem|st until he tells me to listen to someone else |
| 01:12.28 | chem|st | myu: shouldnt matter but |
| 01:12.34 | timeless_mbp | i'm using irreco until he tells me to use something else |
| 01:12.43 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: I tell you |
| 01:12.45 | myu | why would you take orders from someone youve never met |
| 01:12.51 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: so what should i use? |
| 01:12.52 | myu | he could be trolling you for all you know |
| 01:13.01 | timeless_mbp | myu: someone will slap him for me |
| 01:13.31 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: they may screwed with the lists and I cannot guide you to it as I dont know how the list is build in irreco |
| 01:13.34 | DocScrutinizer | myu: nah, irreco just fine here |
| 01:13.43 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: so you want me to use qtirreco? |
| 01:13.50 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: did you find the remote and can guide him? |
| 01:13.53 | timeless_mbp | closes irreco |
| 01:13.56 | timeless_mbp | launches qtirreco |
| 01:13.57 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: wait a sec |
| 01:13.58 | timeless_mbp | now what? |
| 01:14.08 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: you got it installed? |
| 01:14.11 | chem|st | then go on |
| 01:14.12 | timeless_mbp | pauses w/ qtirreco open and a blank screen |
| 01:14.15 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: no, he's not listening, and I feel like wasting my time |
| 01:14.18 | timeless_mbp | now what? |
| 01:14.35 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: go qtirreco and do the same again! |
| 01:14.47 | timeless_mbp | taps the system menu |
| 01:14.49 | timeless_mbp | taps download remote |
| 01:14.57 | timeless_mbp | now what? |
| 01:15.00 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: download from DB |
| 01:15.05 | timeless_mbp | err? |
| 01:15.11 | timeless_mbp | closes dialog |
| 01:15.13 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: there are two |
| 01:15.14 | timeless_mbp | taps system menu |
| 01:15.19 | timeless_mbp | taps download from db |
| 01:15.27 | timeless_mbp | gets a totally different dialog |
| 01:15.40 | chem|st | then Digibox.. and so on |
| 01:15.41 | timeless_mbp | tap digibox? |
| 01:16.27 | timeless_mbp | ok, err wtf? |
| 01:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | damn, someone have mercy and hand him his troll-certificate |
| 01:16.31 | timeless_mbp | i see something w/: |
| 01:16.33 | DocScrutinizer | A+ |
| 01:16.36 | timeless_mbp | 1 2 3 4 hchdown chup |
| 01:16.42 | timeless_mbp | menu <power?> TV voldown volup |
| 01:16.46 | timeless_mbp | i do not see much |
| 01:16.46 | chem|st | now go into edit mode |
| 01:16.54 | timeless_mbp | taps system menu |
| 01:16.57 | timeless_mbp | taps edit remote |
| 01:16.58 | chem|st | add button |
| 01:17.07 | timeless_mbp | new button? |
| 01:17.11 | chem|st | yep |
| 01:17.16 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I thought you ran out of those after your last visit to tmo ;) |
| 01:17.25 | timeless_mbp | taps new button |
| 01:17.27 | chem|st | javispedro: I got some handy |
| 01:17.42 | chem|st | choose a picture for your button |
| 01:18.05 | chem|st | tap the button to do so |
| 01:18.27 | *** join/#maemo blackthorne (~blackthor@5.65.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 01:18.28 | timeless_mbp | selects a crappy picture |
| 01:18.28 | blackthorne | hi |
| 01:18.41 | blackthorne | how can I turn the USB mass storage device mode off |
| 01:18.46 | chem|st | or just enter PVR in the top text box |
| 01:18.48 | blackthorne | with the cable plugged into my computer? |
| 01:18.54 | timeless_mbp | blackthorne: eh? |
| 01:19.00 | DocScrutinizer | safely remove on PC |
| 01:19.11 | timeless_mbp | blackthorne: when you're in mass storage mode, your device is a *SLAVE* |
| 01:19.18 | timeless_mbp | you have to have the master (PC) release it |
| 01:19.28 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: EYES TO ME! it is 2:19 over here |
| 01:19.28 | blackthorne | yes but I can't access its memory |
| 01:19.31 | timeless_mbp | that means eject/safely remove/whatever |
| 01:19.31 | nomis | timeless_mbp: I suggest you to focus on your Remote thing :) |
| 01:19.34 | DocScrutinizer | blackthorne: or simply what I toldya |
| 01:19.35 | blackthorne | because after doing that |
| 01:19.36 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: ok |
| 01:19.42 | timeless_mbp | so i gave it a picture |
| 01:19.50 | timeless_mbp | and a name |
| 01:19.55 | timeless_mbp | click add? |
| 01:19.56 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: now tap 'add' on the right hand side |
| 01:20.03 | timeless_mbp | taps add |
| 01:20.15 | timeless_mbp | there's a blank commands area |
| 01:20.17 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: scroll to PVR and ADD THE DAMN THING! |
| 01:20.23 | blackthorne | after unmounting the device from my computer I still can't access the device memory from the maemo terminal |
| 01:20.26 | timeless_mbp | the commands area is blank! |
| 01:20.27 | chem|st | gave birth... just now |
| 01:20.30 | blackthorne | it appears connected |
| 01:20.37 | timeless_mbp | did you want me to select something in remotes? |
| 01:20.53 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: tap the remote first (the BN59 thing on the left |
| 01:21.05 | timeless_mbp | taps bn59... |
| 01:21.12 | timeless_mbp | the p section has: |
| 01:21.21 | timeless_mbp | pmode, psize, pause, play, power |
| 01:21.22 | javispedro | blackthorne: "unmounting" means you're using unix-like. I haven't yet mastered how to do that without replugging the cable. |
| 01:21.26 | pupnik | pizza |
| 01:21.26 | timeless_mbp | there's no PVR |
| 01:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | heads out for valium and a strong painkiller |
| 01:21.57 | blackthorne | javispedro: yes, I wanted to avoid replugging the charging cable |
| 01:22.09 | pupnik | enjoy each pain free day |
| 01:22.14 | myu | shit I forgot to make a backup |
| 01:22.17 | DocScrutinizer | blackthorne: there's no other way to re-connect USB |
| 01:22.20 | myu | before installing easydeb image |
| 01:22.27 | myu | well ill make sure to before running it |
| 01:22.29 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: ehrm fsck |
| 01:22.33 | timeless_mbp | busy waits on chem|st |
| 01:22.42 | myu | oh I can make one while it dls probably |
| 01:23.21 | timeless_mbp | chem|st / DocScrutinizer : thanks for taking time to try this end user walk through experience |
| 01:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: fsck while editing a remote?? |
| 01:23.40 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: if you want, you can offer for me to listen to DocScrutinizer |
| 01:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | [ignores timeless_mbp ] |
| 01:23.48 | timeless_mbp | but if you do that, do him a favor and explain what went wrong :) |
| 01:23.56 | timeless_mbp | otherwise he'll walk me through the same brick walls |
| 01:24.02 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: to late for DocScrutinizer now... |
| 01:24.14 | timeless_mbp | ok :) |
| 01:24.16 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 01:24.31 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: do you have a picture of the remote handy? |
| 01:24.38 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: i have an n900 and the remote |
| 01:24.42 | timeless_mbp | a picture is a snap away... |
| 01:25.02 | timeless_mbp | tries to figure out how to start the camera |
| 01:25.52 | timeless_mbp | ok, my n900 has a picture of the remote |
| 01:28.15 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: nevermind... |
| 01:28.22 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 01:28.29 | chem|st | have you got your remote handy? |
| 01:28.35 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 01:28.38 | timeless_mbp | but it doesn't WORK |
| 01:28.42 | chem|st | what is the model number |
| 01:28.42 | timeless_mbp | which is why i'm not using it :) |
| 01:28.52 | timeless_mbp | where is the model number? |
| 01:28.57 | timeless_mbp | all it says is HANDAN |
| 01:29.02 | chem|st | bakc or battery slot |
| 01:29.05 | DocScrutinizer | HAHA, I wondered how long it'll take till finaly that question |
| 01:29.10 | timeless_mbp | "CE"? |
| 01:29.25 | timeless_mbp | HR-A408? |
| 01:29.32 | timeless_mbp | HIPS1-3(HD-CL) ? |
| 01:29.36 | timeless_mbp | MADE IN CHINA ? |
| 01:29.54 | timeless_mbp | UM-4/AAA/R03 ? |
| 01:29.56 | nomis | HR-A408 sounds good. |
| 01:30.00 | timeless_mbp | runs out of text |
| 01:30.07 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: please look at this http://www.pultov.net/files/imagecache/watermark/files/BN59-00685A_3.jpg and figure which button is your pvr |
| 01:30.21 | timeless_mbp | not my remote |
| 01:30.44 | timeless_mbp | http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/handan-remote.jpg |
| 01:30.47 | timeless_mbp | my remote ^ |
| 01:31.36 | timeless_mbp | the button i care about is the one SW of CHv |
| 01:31.44 | timeless_mbp | or west of Time Shift |
| 01:33.38 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: I would get through all buttons of that samsung remote and try! |
| 01:33.50 | timeless_mbp | grr |
| 01:34.13 | chem|st | at least all buttons shown on the remote first load should work as labeled |
| 01:34.33 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: you fscked your remote not me! |
| 01:34.59 | chem|st | educated guess "i" button |
| 01:35.07 | chem|st | or info |
| 01:35.26 | timeless_mbp | i is the bottom right button of my remote |
| 01:35.28 | timeless_mbp | http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/handan-remote.jpg |
| 01:35.39 | timeless_mbp | well, as pictured it's top right... |
| 01:36.36 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: or all buttons the picture diff spits in your face |
| 01:36.39 | nomis | timeless_mbp: looking at your "Handan_DVB-C_5000" file suggests, that an alternative approach would be to add "dummy buttons" to this file, consisting of - lets say - the missing codes in the 0x288* - 0x289* range. That is just a handful of codes and you might be lucky. |
| 01:37.12 | timeless_mbp | nomis: i'd kinda like a commandline tool which could just do that |
| 01:37.20 | timeless_mbp | it's a royal pain using the ui for this |
| 01:37.39 | timeless_mbp | the editors (Both Irreco and QtIrreco) are crap for adding/editing/touching buttons |
| 01:37.50 | *** join/#maemo Texrat (47a4a9ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.164.169.202) |
| 01:37.53 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: stylus! |
| 01:38.15 | chem|st | off to bed ladies! |
| 01:38.43 | Texrat | good night chem|st |
| 01:38.48 | timeless_mbp | good night |
| 01:38.52 | timeless_mbp | chem|st: so |
| 01:38.56 | timeless_mbp | i tried the buttons 1..4 |
| 01:39.08 | timeless_mbp | well, actually all the buttons from the remote you got me to download |
| 01:39.09 | nomis | timeless_mbp: yeah, unfortunately I am not fully up to date regarding the commandline lirc tools. |
| 01:39.11 | timeless_mbp | none of them seem to do anything |
| 01:39.24 | timeless_mbp | so i suspect the remote you got me to install is a dud :) |
| 01:39.33 | timeless_mbp | since even power doesn't seem to do anything... |
| 01:39.41 | timeless_mbp | although that might just be qtirreco sucking :) |
| 01:39.49 | nomis | timeless_mbp: uh, I don't think that I recommended any file. |
| 01:39.55 | chem|st | timeless_mbp: then you may go with nomis idea... night all |
| 01:40.16 | timeless_mbp | nomis: <you=chem|st > |
| 01:40.36 | nomis | ok :) |
| 01:40.47 | timeless_mbp | and yes, i've considered adding ranges |
| 01:40.52 | timeless_mbp | but really, the editor is so painful |
| 01:41.05 | timeless_mbp | and, have you used vi on the n900? :) |
| 01:41.11 | timeless_mbp | i've written apps in it |
| 01:41.18 | timeless_mbp | but i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy |
| 01:43.00 | timeless_mbp | err, wtf |
| 01:43.01 | DocScrutinizer | wonders how timeless_mbp would react on finding a filed bugreport as crappy and missing any proper info, as the noise heard on this chan for some 60min now |
| 01:43.02 | nomis | timeless_mbp: lirc comes with the "irsend" commandline tool. |
| 01:43.29 | nomis | timeless_mbp: I am not sure how to invoke it properly, but that should be fairly easy to figure out. |
| 01:43.34 | timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: read the log |
| 01:43.39 | timeless_mbp | i offered things at various times |
| 01:43.42 | timeless_mbp | people didn't ask for them |
| 01:43.46 | timeless_mbp | i asked if i should use refresh |
| 01:43.51 | timeless_mbp | i asked if they wanted a picture of my remote |
| 01:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | you ASKED |
| 01:44.02 | timeless_mbp | i want steps to reproduce |
| 01:44.06 | DocScrutinizer | you never did answer anything |
| 01:44.07 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 01:44.17 | timeless_mbp | i gave as much info as i had |
| 01:44.24 | timeless_mbp | i do not know the model of my remote |
| 01:44.30 | timeless_mbp | i do not know how to find the model of my remote |
| 01:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | you know ls though |
| 01:44.40 | nomis | hey, can we stop the fighting please? |
| 01:44.54 | timeless_mbp | i can't ls my remote! |
| 01:44.58 | timeless_mbp | the remote is dead! |
| 01:45.08 | timeless_mbp | i gave the filename |
| 01:45.08 | myu | dead? |
| 01:45.13 | timeless_mbp | i asked if the file name is sufficient |
| 01:45.14 | myu | did you check the ir? |
| 01:45.16 | timeless_mbp | someone said yes |
| 01:45.22 | timeless_mbp | myu: sorry, what? |
| 01:45.32 | timeless_mbp | you have my attn, what do you want me to do? |
| 01:45.33 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: you know you should earn a /kick for this shit! >><timeless_mbp> i can't ls my remote! |
| 01:45.35 | timeless_mbp | i tried new batteries |
| 01:45.35 | myu | put in frech batt. and point it at your camera |
| 01:45.39 | myu | **fresh |
| 01:45.43 | myu | then press buttons |
| 01:46.01 | timeless_mbp | myu: does my n900 count as a camera? |
| 01:46.10 | timeless_mbp | if not, i can find a better one |
| 01:46.23 | myu | yeah it does |
| 01:46.47 | timeless_mbp | opens n900 camera lens |
| 01:46.57 | timeless_mbp | blue light appears in remote |
| 01:47.05 | myu | its not dead |
| 01:47.09 | timeless_mbp | ok |
| 01:47.25 | myu | well you cant get it to work, so thats not really relevant, unless its a universal remote |
| 01:47.43 | nomis | timeless_mbp: does it work for the button in question as well? |
| 01:47.49 | timeless_mbp | sobs |
| 01:47.51 | DocScrutinizer | myu: technically it still can be dead, if the crystal got detuned, due to impact |
| 01:47.52 | timeless_mbp | the remote works |
| 01:48.08 | timeless_mbp | it really wasn't working before! |
| 01:48.09 | myu | he means test the button that you need |
| 01:48.11 | myu | on the camera |
| 01:48.13 | myu | oh its working now |
| 01:48.17 | myu | wololo |
| 01:48.20 | nomis | yay, even more wasted 60 minutes now :-) |
| 01:48.21 | timeless_mbp | this is so unfair |
| 01:48.34 | myu | welp you shouldve listened to me in the first place! |
| 01:48.38 | DocScrutinizer | no, that is trolling at its best |
| 01:48.40 | javispedro | I just love how opensource works. |
| 01:48.41 | myu | see, done in 3 minutes |
| 01:48.50 | timeless_mbp | myu: thanks :) |
| 01:48.58 | javispedro | ;) |
| 01:49.19 | timeless_mbp | trust me, i've lost ~8 weeks of programming |
| 01:49.27 | timeless_mbp | i would not *intentionally* lose 8 weeks of programming |
| 01:49.41 | myu | np man |
| 01:49.53 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 01:50.18 | timeless_mbp | so... can the n900 camera be used to learn the button signals? :) |
| 01:50.27 | timeless_mbp | wants the n900 to back up the ir remote |
| 01:50.36 | nomis | timeless_mbp: you're now morally obliged to work on understanding lirc and make tvbgone for the n900 work. |
| 01:50.47 | nomis | timeless_mbp: no, the framerate is not high enough. |
| 01:50.51 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: that's been discussed ad nauseum maybe 6 months ago |
| 01:51.34 | timeless_mbp | nomif you walk me through what needs to be done... |
| 01:51.40 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: we (well actually I) came up with some ideas to work around that framerate issue |
| 01:52.30 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: oh? Willing to share the gist of it? |
| 01:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: you can use aliasing to deduce the real signal, as it's usually repeating. You also can use bar patterns in a single frame, when holding IR directly to lens |
| 01:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | I even did a video giving some indication it might be feasible |
| 01:54.05 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: Mhm, I wonder if the proximity sensor is a) sensitive in the relevant spectrum and b) can be polled fast enough. |
| 01:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 01:54.22 | DocScrutinizer | also ALS is way too slow |
| 01:54.57 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: where is the video? |
| 01:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if and where I published it |
| 01:55.16 | javispedro | http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/irstill.png |
| 01:55.19 | javispedro | mwahahahahaha |
| 01:56.07 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: the signal baudrate of CIR is considerably low |
| 01:56.17 | javispedro | (that's what I got from point the cam to a slightly stronger than your average remote ir signal) |
| 01:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | it's just the carrier that's impossible to detect |
| 01:56.21 | javispedro | *pointing |
| 01:56.36 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: If anyone ever manages to extract IR codes with the n900 camera I'll be deeply impressed. However, I doubt the feasibility. |
| 01:57.01 | nomis | It is way easier to hack together a small µC board, hooking an ir-detector to it and let it do the heavy lifting. |
| 01:57.19 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder if anybody (@ fcam team?) will manage to get slomo video into N900 |
| 01:57.35 | javispedro | it's even easier to sit down, do nothing, and rant about why they didn't put a damn detector in the n900. |
| 01:57.37 | DocScrutinizer | all depends on what you can do to the cam chip |
| 01:57.41 | nomis | (or even use an ir transistor to try detecting the carrier frequency) |
| 01:57.58 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 01:58.12 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: do you know which make the proximity sensor is? |
| 01:58.15 | DocScrutinizer | that's aslo been duscussed. easily accomplished via hs-jack |
| 01:58.45 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: are there any detailed docs on the cam itself? does it use a physical shutter? |
| 01:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: nope, but obviously an ntegrated pulsed reflective IR detector, with integrated logics for controlling |
| 01:59.36 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: why "obviously"? |
| 02:00.05 | BCMM | javispedro: the reason i wish there was a IR detector is that the tv-out lead isn't quite long enough... |
| 02:00.08 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: no phy shutter for shure. fcam team claims the docs are available, also other cam app house sayd the same |
| 02:00.29 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: well, what's the fastest you can take photos with fcam :) |
| 02:00.49 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: from inspection with camera and looking at the schamtics |
| 02:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | schematics* |
| 02:01.38 | BCMM | does fcam even do video stuff? |
| 02:02.08 | myu | "video stuff"? |
| 02:02.20 | DocScrutinizer | whatever it does, it tinkers with cam chip settings |
| 02:02.46 | DocScrutinizer | aaah BlessN900 was the name |
| 02:03.09 | DocScrutinizer | they said N900 is the only device where you can get specs and datasheets for camchip |
| 02:03.23 | myu | blessn900 screwed up my camera sadly |
| 02:03.28 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: oh, as in use the n900-specific bits of fcam as an example of low-level messing with the camera's chip |
| 02:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 02:03.41 | myu | everytime id engage the lens cover it would start up and crash |
| 02:04.03 | BCMM | usually that fixes itself on restart... |
| 02:04.58 | myu | nope |
| 02:05.01 | myu | I had to restore |
| 02:05.16 | myu | but it was cool after, id dl it again because it was an easy fix |
| 02:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: a chip with VDD, GND, and signal-out pins can't work like pulsing IR without integrated logic |
| 02:05.39 | myu | I think it was cause I got it off -devel |
| 02:06.40 | Texrat | hey DocScrutinizer |
| 02:06.51 | DocScrutinizer | hey Texrat :-D |
| 02:07.02 | Texrat | you seem to be having fun tonight |
| 02:07.13 | DocScrutinizer | not more than usual |
| 02:07.27 | javispedro | hehe |
| 02:07.54 | DocScrutinizer | Texrat: what makes you say that? |
| 02:08.09 | Texrat | just a lotta chatting ;) |
| 02:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | most of it was timeless_mbp though :-P |
| 02:08.39 | timeless_mbp | irreco is such a mess :) |
| 02:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | that's a statement we can agree upon easily |
| 02:09.19 | javispedro | let's liven things up even more |
| 02:09.26 | javispedro | any suggested mythbusters episode to watch? |
| 02:10.00 | DocScrutinizer | ooh poor mans mcgyver? I hate it, it's so.... stupid |
| 02:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | example? |
| 02:10.19 | javispedro | dunno, asking |
| 02:10.25 | javispedro | I think I already watched mcgyver one |
| 02:10.32 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: just get mcgyver |
| 02:10.40 | timeless_mbp | accept no substitutes :) |
| 02:10.57 | DocScrutinizer | test a hanging bridge stability, but forget to fix the cables in rigid cable blocks |
| 02:11.03 | javispedro | heh |
| 02:11.56 | javispedro | wanders through wikipedia episode list |
| 02:12.22 | myu | hey how do I right click in easy-debian? |
| 02:12.46 | myu | got it |
| 02:12.47 | myu | nm |
| 02:12.55 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: mhm, It is a pity that the "Reflective Optical Switch" doesn't have a proper part number. Or did I miss it? The "N1540" seems to be some coordinate for locating the chip in the device. |
| 02:12.56 | myu | you hold the tap like in microb |
| 02:13.00 | DocScrutinizer | they built a model, and placed it on two supports, without fixing the cables to anything rigid |
| 02:13.03 | javispedro | myu: thank god, because I was about to say "you can't". |
| 02:13.45 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: yes, alas these schematics are missing part numbers for all parts |
| 02:14.31 | DocScrutinizer | N1540 is the schematics name |
| 02:15.51 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: the IR light sent out from this is modulated? |
| 02:16.02 | DocScrutinizer | pulsed |
| 02:16.03 | BCMM | given a good approximation to diffuse lighting (cloudy day), i wonder how hard it would be to get a 3d image by comparing a photo with and without flash... |
| 02:16.39 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: low freq, like a few per second |
| 02:16.50 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: oh, then this is probably due to power saving. |
| 02:16.56 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 02:17.08 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: then I doubt that there is additional logic in the sensor. |
| 02:17.16 | DocScrutinizer | sure there is |
| 02:17.28 | DocScrutinizer | what else would do the pulsing? |
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| 02:20.09 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: there could be some internal more-or-less passive components (like a small resonant circuit) that gets set in its frequency by the "prog" resistor. Or they are really evil and switch the power supply. |
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| 02:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | the power supply is not a dedicated one |
| 02:21.33 | nomis | looks for the "other end" of the BTB connector |
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| 02:24.51 | nomis | indeed. |
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| 02:25.34 | nomis | So if that pulse indeed affects the sensing side of the sensor as well, there is indeed no chance of abusing this. |
| 02:26.00 | nomis | for that we'd need a datasheet :) |
| 02:26.31 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: It has to affect sensing side as well. There needs to be a latch |
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| 02:27.30 | DocScrutinizer | I'm pretty sure the output isn't pulsed like the IR is, rather it's latched on every IR pulse and sticks to this level until next pulse |
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| 02:27.50 | nomis | good point. |
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| 02:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | toldya it's useless for CIR detection |
| 02:28.27 | nomis | heh, this might even explain the (for me) piss poor response time when removing the phone from my ear and waiting for the UI to reappear... :) |
| 02:28.53 | DocScrutinizer | might be, yes |
| 02:29.10 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: sorry for not immediately buying everything someone tells me. |
| 02:29.23 | DocScrutinizer | I'm quite sure it can't be significantly faster than a few 100ms |
| 02:30.22 | pupnik | any of you have a hack to make minitube more reliable with slow youtube feed? |
| 02:30.22 | pupnik | i grepped around the source to find a buffer to increase but no luck |
| 02:30.23 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: when I do, you usually can :-D unless I include terms like "AIUI", "IIRC", "AFAIK" or "probably" |
| 02:30.59 | DocScrutinizer | ...or "I'm quite sure" :-D |
| 02:31.20 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: I don't buy this. :-) |
| 02:31.45 | DocScrutinizer | good boy |
| 02:32.44 | myu | hey |
| 02:33.08 | nomis | I actually wonder if that statement is not somewhat paradoxical in itself, since it included the very terms you told me to distrust. :-)) |
| 02:33.24 | myu | oh nm |
| 02:33.42 | myu | I really ought to stop looking for help, I know im capable of solving most of these issue |
| 02:33.50 | myu | I think im just scared to brick my phone |
| 02:33.54 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: congrats, you passed the test |
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| 02:34.07 | nomis | stops this line of thought and ponders hitting the bed. |
| 02:34.12 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: what did he win? |
| 02:34.22 | DocScrutinizer | my respect :-D |
| 02:34.53 | nomis | hah! |
| 02:34.54 | javispedro | in $? |
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| 02:35.22 | nomis | javispedro: EUR for me please :] |
| 02:35.26 | DocScrutinizer | I like it when people want to understand why I came to certain conclusions, and they refuse to stop asking for that info |
| 02:36.25 | DocScrutinizer | in the end that's the whole point about why such a community is fun |
| 02:36.49 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: I am still not convinced about the IR-capture-by-camera thing though, although I probably am no longer in a state to follow the argument. |
| 02:37.44 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: it's a very fuzzy idea yet. There's some indications it *might* be feasible, in one way or another |
| 02:37.47 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: ...unless you manage to crank out 1000fps (maybe with a very small AOI) bright enough to see the IR. |
| 02:37.50 | DocScrutinizer | no POC though yet |
| 02:38.31 | nomis | from image manipulation I know that it is possible to refocus unsharp images computationally, which strikes me as a similiar problem, but you have to know a lot about the relevant convolution kernel there. |
| 02:38.45 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: given the fact we have some knowledge about the properties of the signal we expect to see, we can use some ciute filtering |
| 02:38.46 | nomis | (the captured IR signal is unsharp over the time) |
| 02:39.29 | BCMM_ | nomis: you could use a filter that cut out light other than your IR to help with that |
| 02:39.41 | BCMM_ | bright enough to see the ir, i mean |
| 02:39.46 | DocScrutinizer | given the fact it's a repetitive signal, we can even do further simplifications |
| 02:41.40 | nomis | BCMM_: mhm, you need an awful lot of light to shoot images with 1000fps, I doubt that a IR led in a as-cheap-as-possible IR would cut it. When using lower fps with fancy filtering magic it is a different beast though. |
| 02:41.59 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: then if we could also exploit side efects of the optical sensor in cam that usually are considered undesirable... |
| 02:43.13 | DocScrutinizer | we could (theoretically) reduce the frame dimensions to 1x1 |
| 02:43.33 | DocScrutinizer | so reducing the needed bandwidth on video bus |
| 02:43.52 | BCMM_ | nomis: yes, but reducing the noise would help. slightly. |
| 02:44.11 | DocScrutinizer | holding the remote LED directly to the lens will drastically improve S/N |
| 02:44.33 | BCMM_ | DocScrutinizer: you can resize the image on the camera chip? |
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| 02:45.14 | DocScrutinizer | obviously. Video is taken at VGA or sth like that, while still shots are 2 different possible formats by themselves |
| 02:45.56 | BCMM_ | oh, of course |
| 02:46.01 | DocScrutinizer | so yes, you can select different formats |
| 02:46.19 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: depending on the camera chip it *might* be necessary to read out a very significant portion of the chip area (and then throwing away most of the information for 1x1). I am not really an expert on that, but I know that some camera sensors need that for some reason. |
| 02:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | I doubt you can select 1x1. But that's sth to check back with datasheet |
| 02:46.49 | BCMM_ | i suppose i'm slightly startled that it varies arbitrarily rather than having a full-res and video-res setting |
| 02:46.54 | BCMM_ | oh |
| 02:47.45 | nomis | (having no clue on camera chips I can only do a hazardeous guess, that it might be necessary to drain charges from the chip to avoid them influencing the interesting parts) |
| 02:48.06 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 02:48.54 | nomis | I once did linux-driver programming for these cameras: http://www.baslerweb.com/beitraege/beitrag_en_101458.html - but they put the heavy lifting of sensor control into a FPGA. Lots of weird parameters though. |
| 02:49.17 | DocScrutinizer | still IIRC the cam module offers exposure times of down to 1/1000 |
| 02:50.43 | nomis | yeah, but this does not necessarily translate to 1000fps. The cameras mentioned above did go down to 10µs IIRC, but the maximum framerate was like 100fps or so. |
| 02:51.14 | nomis | (there is a ton of infrastructure between CPU and sensor though...) |
| 02:51.14 | BCMM_ | DocScrutinizer: ah, but how long does it need in between to read and reset the ccd? |
| 02:52.12 | DocScrutinizer | that's not exactly relevant when doing a number of samples across a repetitive signal |
| 02:52.55 | BCMM_ | might be using words wrong, but what i meant was "stuff has to happen between exposures, therefore framerate will be less than 1/exposure" |
| 02:53.02 | DocScrutinizer | if only you can trigger the shot down to the 1/1000 resolution precision |
| 02:59.11 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM_: you know how the old e.g. atary video digitizers for still video worked? They took 400 pixel per frame (1/60s), exactly one pixel per svan line. You had to keep the video signal steady for 640 frames so the digitizer was able to grab the whole image |
| 02:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | ATARI* |
| 02:59.39 | DocScrutinizer | scan* |
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| 03:00.39 | DocScrutinizer | CIR signals are similarly steady over time |
| 03:01.04 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: do you remember that I think the first iphone produced massively warped videos, because they did exactly this? :-) |
| 03:01.31 | nomis | i.e. exposing/reading the sensor line by line. |
| 03:01.45 | BCMM_ | you mean photos of moving things? |
| 03:01.58 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM_: photos aka still video |
| 03:02.14 | BCMM_ | there are some spectacularly wrong iphone pics of spinning things |
| 03:02.16 | nomis | BCMM_: or was it photos? I don't recall exactly. |
| 03:03.00 | nomis | http://www.flickr.com/photos/djeedub/2692221975/ |
| 03:03.33 | BCMM_ | DocScrutinizer: anyway, you lost me with that arguement, either because i don't know much about cir or because i should sleep |
| 03:04.56 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM_: CIR is sending a repetitive signal, means it repeats in a constant manner in a fixed framerate. You can sample such a signal to arbitrary detail, by picking just one sample out of every period |
| 03:05.21 | BCMM_ | aah, i see |
| 03:05.24 | nomis | ...hoping that the capture framerate is relatively prime to the IR "framerate". |
| 03:05.29 | DocScrutinizer | well, precision is limited by sum of all jitter you got in your set |
| 03:05.55 | BCMM_ | pattern repeats, so you can take a lot longer than the length of the pattern to record the pattern |
| 03:06.04 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 03:06.07 | BCMM_ | nomis: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jerlich/sets/72157614852342118/ |
| 03:06.23 | nomis | BCMM_: oh wow :-) |
| 03:06.49 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 03:07.16 | nomis | Hmm, my DSL just reconnected, telling me that I urgently need to go to bed. It is 4.07am. Night all :-) |
| 03:07.27 | BCMM_ | http://gemssty.com/2009/01/22/iphone-camera-effect/ someone linked this one here a few weeks ago, i think |
| 03:07.56 | DocScrutinizer | night nomis |
| 03:08.12 | BCMM_ | hah, i've done that too |
| 03:08.27 | BCMM_ | sadly, there's cable here... |
| 03:08.43 | BCMM_ | but i'm off too |
| 03:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | W*T*F??! snow effect js :-((( |
| 03:10.34 | DocScrutinizer | adds gemssty.com to his blacklist |
| 03:12.31 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: of course, like with any oscilloscope, when using sampling you need to tune your sampling freq to the "framerate" of the observed signal |
| 03:13.05 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: there our knowledge about what we expect to see comnes in |
| 03:13.38 | DocScrutinizer | we can tell from our results if we tuned correctly or not |
| 03:16.25 | DocScrutinizer | in fact, as we know about the complete limited set of possible input signals, we can distinguish between them by much less precise probing results then what I sketched above |
| 03:18.00 | DocScrutinizer | a sampling with a sample freq of 50/s and a sample window of maybe 1/100s might be perfectly sufficient to distinguish what signal we got |
| 03:18.42 | DocScrutinizer | it happens 50/s freq and 1/100s apperture time is what we might get with ordinary video |
| 03:28.47 | DocScrutinizer | btw the task to detect a CIR in a video is much like the GPS filtering. You compare what you got to all possible signal patterns by running the predefined patterns thru correlators together with the video. The correlator with the highest output is indicating what input signal you got - it's the same one as that used to create the reference pattern you fed to that correlator |
| 03:30.22 | DocScrutinizer | creating reference patterns can be done by a model of the cam chip, feeding it with original CIR signals |
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| 03:31.19 | DocScrutinizer | s/original/synthesized "original"/ |
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| 03:51.32 | lcuk | nomis, i missed scrollback, but did bcmm indicate that the camera on n900 can be forced into a REALLY low resolution with high framerate? |
| 03:51.41 | lcuk | something like 16*16 or 32*32 |
| 03:51.45 | lcuk | like a mouse sensor? |
| 03:52.22 | lcuk | initial testing I tried I couldnt get the camera to work by specifying a framerate (the n810 used to let me) |
| 03:54.47 | myu | does anyone have a favorite web browser for the n900? |
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| 03:56.11 | lcuk | myu, yes, microb |
| 03:57.54 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: that's what we were discussing. BCMM had doubts it can be done |
| 03:58.53 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: the framerate is probably contrlled by OMAP's cam interface |
| 03:59.27 | DocScrutinizer | and range limited by both OMAP cam interface and cam chip specs |
| 04:03.07 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, scrollback indicates its for IR reading |
| 04:03.11 | lcuk | i have a different purpose |
| 04:03.33 | DocScrutinizer | yep, but the method intended is similar |
| 04:03.40 | lcuk | yip, hence me perking |
| 04:03.47 | DocScrutinizer | low resolution and high framerate |
| 04:04.39 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, the main camera is controlled via I2C-3, the bus that also has accelerometer and BTFM |
| 04:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | we'd need the datasheet to understand how to talk to this I2C set of registers |
| 04:05.37 | DocScrutinizer | not how, rather *what* |
| 04:06.23 | DocScrutinizer | looks rather straight forward, once we got the cam module datasheet |
| 04:07.05 | DocScrutinizer | video data interface is a 2 line differential (clk+/- and data+/-) |
| 04:07.53 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, or just talk v4l |
| 04:08.05 | DocScrutinizer | quite certainly you need to configure OMAP hardware to meet the particular signal |
| 04:08.16 | lcuk | perhaps |
| 04:08.24 | lcuk | the n810 camera surprised me with its flexibility |
| 04:08.32 | lcuk | just iwth normal interfaces |
| 04:08.39 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 04:08.48 | SpeedEvil | The front o the back ds? |
| 04:08.51 | SpeedEvil | camera |
| 04:08.56 | DocScrutinizer | main |
| 04:08.59 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, main camera |
| 04:09.01 | SpeedEvil | the back camera is sort-of-there |
| 04:09.02 | lcuk | the one with flash |
| 04:09.06 | SpeedEvil | datasheet |
| 04:09.12 | SpeedEvil | not a great datasheet |
| 04:09.24 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Camera_Sensor |
| 04:09.25 | DocScrutinizer | linky? |
| 04:09.28 | DocScrutinizer | heh |
| 04:09.54 | lcuk | cool |
| 04:09.58 | DocScrutinizer | meh, dead |
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| 04:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | ahhh finally |
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| 04:20.34 | myu | hey anyone seen a bug on easye debian |
| 04:20.45 | myu | where the packet installer just doesnt work |
| 04:20.54 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ok, if it maters: the data clk is generated by cam module, not by OMAP |
| 04:20.56 | myu | unless you do it from the n900's menu |
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| 04:41.51 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: no that can't be real X-P : ""About electrical shutter, will be effected 2 flames after."" |
| 04:43.34 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 04:43.40 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you got any useable data in that table on p.9-11 ? I only got empty cells, except those in yellow |
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| 04:44.45 | DocScrutinizer | tbh that's one of the ugliest most crappy ds I ever seen |
| 04:44.54 | Jay_BEE | howdy |
| 04:46.48 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 04:47.04 | SpeedEvil | I've not really looked at it in more detail |
| 04:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | also I'm painfully missing that embedded object "Command Setting_v1.7.xls" |
| 04:49.42 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 04:49.49 | SpeedEvil | not seen any more than the bare doc |
| 04:56.33 | DocScrutinizer | hah, actually you can "activate OLE object" to make it pop up. I *hate* .doc |
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| 04:56.57 | Termana | good morning |
| 04:59.29 | DocScrutinizer | morning Termana |
| 04:59.32 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: |
| 04:59.39 | DocScrutinizer | Formula is as follows |
| 04:59.40 | DocScrutinizer | VCO [MHz] = EXTCLK * CKVAR_DIV / 3 |
| 04:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | CCP2 [Mbps] = VCO / { ( LVDSCK_DIV + 1 ) * ( VCO_DIV + 1 ) } |
| 05:00.01 | DocScrutinizer | spck [MHz] = VCO / { ( SPCK_DIV +1 ) * ( VCO_DIV + 1 ) |
| 05:00.39 | DocScrutinizer | Frame rate [fps] = { spck / ( IA_H * IA_V ) } * 1,000,000 ( IA_H and IA_V : H and V values of Image area readout with blanking. ) |
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| 05:02.48 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: 10-1 Picture size setting |
| 05:04.18 | DocScrutinizer | H_COUNT[10:0] -> selection of horizontal clock count including blanking |
| 05:05.58 | DocScrutinizer | V_COUNT[12:0] -> Selection of total Vertical line count including blanking. Setting rage is from 84d to 2730d. |
| 05:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | so minimum frame size is 84 lines |
| 05:06.51 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: seems ok for mouse |
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| 05:27.35 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: max exposure time is obviously frame time - 4 lines. So for long exposure times you might want to reduce the clocks as of above formula |
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| 05:29.15 | DocScrutinizer | I jusz wonder if this indigestible crap looks any better whn opened in M$ word, than it does in OOo |
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| 06:07.27 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: SpeedEvil: you might be interested in Stingray_sensor_mode_setting_calculator OLE object2 in SMIA95_AF_camera module_APL_090511 |
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| 06:14.20 | SpeedEvil | interesting |
| 06:14.26 | SpeedEvil | now asleep though |
| 06:15.22 | DocScrutinizer | gnite |
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| 06:18.30 | slonopotamus | huh. /me got X not starting on desktop due to clock skew |
| 06:21.17 | RST38h | morning slonopotamus |
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| 06:22.18 | slonopotamus | RST38h: smth like that, yep |
| 06:23.47 | RST38h | "Why 10% of Your Friends on Twitter and Facebook Will Be Nonhuman in Five Years" |
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| 06:24.10 | RST38h | (and then they provide a lame explanation =)) |
| 06:25.03 | slonopotamus | has neither and doesn't care |
| 06:25.18 | RST38h | Same here |
| 06:29.38 | DocScrutinizer | what's twitter and facebook? |
| 06:30.27 | RST38h | some websites |
| 06:30.34 | DocScrutinizer | orly? |
| 06:30.44 | DocScrutinizer | guess I don't care :-D |
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| 06:31.46 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: websites for those who failed to setup irc client :/ |
| 06:31.50 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: thanks for pointing me at that datasheet anyway |
| 06:32.06 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: yeah, that's what they told me |
| 06:35.16 | timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: help |
| 06:35.26 | timeless_mbp | how do i find an op.fi branch in HEL? |
| 06:35.32 | slonopotamus | so 1. kdm has ServerTimeout and kills X if it didn't start in that time. 2. i have ntp-date run on boot 3. i enabled parallel startup so X and ntp-date run in parallel. 4. for some reason, systoh was = no so system clock wasn't synced to bios. 5. one lucky day X didn't startup anymore because bios clock was > 1 min late so ntp-date advanced it too much so kdm thought timeout expired and killed X :D |
| 06:35.34 | timeless_mbp | https://www.op.fi/op?id=10000&srcpl=1 is useless |
| 06:36.13 | pupnik | sets out tea |
| 06:36.19 | RST38h | slono: kinky |
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| 06:37.27 | pupnik | slonopotamus: hooray for programmers assuming a correct clock |
| 06:38.06 | pupnik | e.g. pandaboard doesn't have a rtc |
| 06:38.12 | RST38h | pupnik: Some things, you just have to assume to be working |
| 06:38.26 | RST38h | has a horror story about the clock btw |
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| 06:40.42 | slonopotamus | meh, network issues |
| 06:40.55 | slonopotamus | did you receive my msg about kdm? :) |
| 06:41.16 | pupnik | yes |
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| 06:41.29 | slonopotamus | hehe :) |
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| 06:42.01 | RST38h | See this: http://www.htl-steyr.ac.at/~morg/pcinfo/hardware/interrupts/inte2do0.htm |
| 06:42.50 | RST38h | What this little page isn't telling you is that once in a while your CX:DX will tick backwards |
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| 06:44.17 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: haha, nice story :-D |
| 06:46.13 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: maybe i should post it to dailywtf :) |
| 06:47.07 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: actually there's a reason for the suggested sneaking sysclock adjust mode |
| 06:47.40 | DocScrutinizer | one of the cases where it actually bites you to do what's deprecated: adjust systime hard |
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| 06:49.59 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: err... the point is that i _didnt_ adjust system clock |
| 06:50.16 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: so over time clock shift became bigger |
| 06:50.19 | DocScrutinizer | you didn't, but ntp did |
| 06:50.41 | slonopotamus | until one day when it grew up to ~ value of ServerTimeout :) |
| 06:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | bzzzzzz, you're out |
| 06:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | system clock, not hw clock |
| 06:51.14 | slonopotamus | oh |
| 06:51.37 | slonopotamus | how you want to adjust time without... err... adjusting it? |
| 06:52.05 | slonopotamus | i did adjust system, but didn't touch hw, right |
| 06:52.07 | DocScrutinizer | there's a pull-it mode |
| 06:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | lemme mangrep it for you |
| 06:53.55 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: i just ran ntp-date/ntp with default settings |
| 06:54.00 | slonopotamus | the only non-default thing here is enabling of parallel service startup |
| 06:54.06 | DocScrutinizer | If the -x option is included on the command line, the clock will never be stepped and only slew corrections will be used. |
| 06:54.21 | DocScrutinizer | man ntpd |
| 06:55.27 | DocScrutinizer | managing times/clocks in unix is an art |
| 06:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | ...that very few seem to master |
| 06:57.20 | slonopotamus | i just used default init script |
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| 07:03.09 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: actually it's kdm bug. kernel does provide functions for _relative_ waits that are not affected by system time changes |
| 07:03.22 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: you wouldn't believe it but most init scripts are wrong on this |
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| 07:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: e.g. it's really a bad idea to do a hwclock --systohc on system shutdown |
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| 07:05.09 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: that's exactly how i fixed this bug |
| 07:05.16 | DocScrutinizer | better have a cronjob to do something along the line >hwclock --set `netdate` |
| 07:05.18 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: why it's bad? |
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| 07:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: because your system clock can be (and more often than not actually is) off by some seconds when shutting down |
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| 07:07.30 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: afaik, i have ntpd on that box so it should correct. |
| 07:08.15 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: and it is a desktop with on/off ~ twice a day |
| 07:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | now hwclock updates /etc/adjtime to ""correct"" the perceived skew of hw clock (which actually is a skew of sysclock), which results in massively incorrect time after it got ""adjusted"" - on next boot |
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| 07:09.51 | DocScrutinizer | as an absolute rule, you MUST NOT use hwclock --systohc on any occasion other than when you *know* you synced sysclock at this very second (or at least minute) |
| 07:09.55 | DocScrutinizer | ~2119 |
| 07:09.55 | infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. |
| 07:10.10 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: sysclock is constantly corrected by running ntpd, i don't see why you expect massively incorrect time |
| 07:10.26 | DocScrutinizer | that's why a hwclock --set `netdate` is way better |
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| 07:11.30 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: if your network is down you'll probably not get much of your ntpd |
| 07:13.49 | DocScrutinizer | see, this is the scheme used in most initscripts, and it *usually* works as everybody assumes same as you do. ""my sysclock is correct"". If so then probably you'd never need any hwclock. It's the one time in a year when it's NOT correct on system shutdown, that will start an ever growing mess |
| 07:13.58 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: well, i just told you what problems i got _without_ systohc sync :) |
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| 07:14.33 | DocScrutinizer | and I told you how to handle it in a better way than most distros do by default |
| 07:15.30 | slonopotamus | hwclock is needed to get some time until first clock sync is done |
| 07:15.52 | DocScrutinizer | why set hwclock to sysclock, assuming you had a sync to ntp recently? When you as well can use ntpdate (or ntptime/nettime whatever) to make *sure* hwclock is set to a correct time |
| 07:16.14 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: do you think I need to learn about what for we need hwclock |
| 07:16.17 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 07:16.58 | slonopotamus | err |
| 07:16.59 | slonopotamus | gentoo does hctosys very early in boot process |
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| 07:17.11 | NooBmonk3y | urggghhh its early |
| 07:17.15 | slonopotamus | and without hctosys we'll have zero time without network, no? |
| 07:17.22 | NooBmonk3y | and snowy....... |
| 07:17.44 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: what's your problem with --hctosys? |
| 07:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | or are you still teaching me? |
| 07:18.42 | NooBmonk3y | http://bit.ly/fh21fc |
| 07:19.14 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: original one :) |
| 07:19.15 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: hw clock became too much late |
| 07:19.15 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: and i suspect things would be even worse if hw clock has ahead of actual time |
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| 07:19.51 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, you completely lost me |
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| 07:22.39 | slonopotamus_ | DocScrutinizer: so, you suggest never writing to hardware clock? |
| 07:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: does >hwclock --set `ntpdate` look like I suggested that? |
| 07:24.04 | slonopotamus_ | okay :) |
| 07:24.06 | DocScrutinizer | have a cron job that executes something like that once a day |
| 07:24.36 | slonopotamus_ | still, it is funny :P |
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| 07:36.20 | DocScrutinizer | the major annoyance is ntpdate has been retired, and ntpd -q isn't exactly a full replacement |
| 07:37.14 | DocScrutinizer | seems nowadays there's no more command to get ntp-time without same moment messing around with sysclock |
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| 07:39.22 | DocScrutinizer | so the contemporary approach would be a >ntpd -qg && hwclock --systohc; in crontab |
| 07:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | annoying, really |
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| 07:42.57 | NooBmonk3y | yawns |
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| 07:45.44 | NooBmonk3y | Morning Termana |
| 07:46.05 | Termana | morning NooBmonk3y |
| 07:46.09 | NooBmonk3y | :) |
| 07:46.17 | NooBmonk3y | its oh so quiet in here :| |
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| 07:48.12 | NooBmonk3y | w00000000ts |
| 07:48.16 | NooBmonk3y | MohammadAG, you are a legend |
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| 07:48.25 | NooBmonk3y | used your control/rules and it now packages! |
| 07:48.46 | NooBmonk3y | i think there may be something borking the rules or control file in qt creator 2.0.1 :| |
| 07:49.07 | NooBmonk3y | (well 2.1.0 RC) |
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| 07:49.24 | NooBmonk3y | wb doc |
| 07:49.25 | NooBmonk3y | right |
| 07:49.27 | NooBmonk3y | off to work |
| 07:49.29 | NooBmonk3y | have a good day alls |
| 07:51.01 | DocScrutinizer | meh, dsl down and killed my linux network subsystem, had to do an init.d/network restart |
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| 08:27.36 | mece | Gaah! Why doesn't this thing work? Could someone explain how Component.onCompleted: positionViewAtIndex should work? This thing does nothing. NOTHING! |
| 08:27.50 | mece | is talking about qml, in case you wondered. |
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| 08:32.03 | thp | mece: #qt-qml might be a good place to ask question :) |
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| 08:41.18 | mece | thp, oh there's a specific qml room :D |
| 08:41.21 | mece | thp, thanks |
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| 08:56.49 | DocScrutinizer | wtf is qml? |
| 09:03.45 | mece | DocScrutinizer, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+qt+qml&l=1 |
| 09:03.54 | mece | DocScrutinizer, :P |
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| 09:05.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, I guess I will get, like, infinity/26^3 hits |
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| 09:11.36 | Venemo_N900 | hi |
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| 09:20.37 | mece | DocScrutinizer51, I made it "feeling lucky" so you wouldn't have to scroll :) |
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| 09:26.13 | jave | how would I go about making a n900 access internet through a windoze pc connected over usb? |
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| 09:27.39 | Venemo_N900 | usb networking? |
| 09:28.42 | DocScrutinizer | err, isn't that #1 FAQ and hasn't been answered to yield a convenient solution a single time yet |
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| 09:29.00 | jave | ok Thanks |
| 09:29.11 | jave | sorry then |
| 09:29.25 | Appiah | jave: if you install the ovi suite you can get a "connect to internet" button :) |
| 09:29.32 | DocScrutinizer | it seems it's not really possible |
| 09:29.39 | nidO | Appiah: thats not what he needs |
| 09:30.03 | Appiah | oh the n900 using the host comp for internet |
| 09:30.27 | Appiah | think I did that on linux O_o not windows |
| 09:30.46 | jave | it ought to be possible at least, I did it on linux |
| 09:30.55 | jave | windoze I dont know so well |
| 09:31.01 | chem|st | gooooooood morning viehhet... wrong channel... |
| 09:31.09 | DocScrutinizer | it will not pan out with maemo's connection manager |
| 09:31.35 | jave | ok, but doing some ifconfig magic in a script would be fine on the n900 |
| 09:31.41 | Appiah | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Starting_USB_network_mode_with_Windows <-- is that it? |
| 09:31.47 | Appiah | or something in the right way... |
| 09:32.51 | DocScrutinizer | usually I want people talking other people into USB networking, just to find them coming back asking "now I can ping internet via PC, but still microb/HAM/whatever is asking me to start up a network connection" |
| 09:33.26 | DocScrutinizer | s/want/watch/ |
| 09:34.21 | Appiah | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications ? |
| 09:35.13 | jave | Thanks |
| 09:35.28 | DocScrutinizer | Appiah: yep, you won the prize :-D |
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| 09:37.18 | Appiah | Yay! |
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| 09:37.57 | toggles | Appiah: the prize is an iphone |
| 09:38.17 | jave | ouch... |
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| 09:40.53 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: did that remote disaster work out yesterday? |
| 09:41.15 | DocScrutinizer | nope, he fixed his original remote :-P |
| 09:41.31 | Appiah | wow |
| 09:41.35 | Appiah | do want |
| 09:41.37 | chem|st | lol |
| 09:41.38 | Appiah | so I can sell it |
| 09:42.49 | chem|st | Appiah: I sat between two iphone people (which actually got iphones) yesterday... no fun |
| 09:43.21 | crashanddie | yay, it's iPhone users bash time |
| 09:43.53 | alterego | Yyay! |
| 09:44.06 | DocScrutinizer | it's iPhone users bash season |
| 09:44.43 | DocScrutinizer | ...since years now |
| 09:44.55 | crashanddie | Let's bash n900 users |
| 09:45.04 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 09:45.08 | DocScrutinizer | there's too few of them |
| 09:45.32 | crashanddie | "Haha, I can crack WEP networks with MY N900, you silly iPhone user! Look, let me just drop to the terminal and run aircrack... oh shit, is there a power outlet somewhere?" |
| 09:45.33 | alterego | We love minorities here! |
| 09:45.55 | alterego | Heh |
| 09:46.25 | crashanddie | "Haha, I have the source code to the whole operating system on my N900, you silly iPhone user. I hope you enjoy your locked down system." iPhone user: "HAM source code?" N900 user: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" |
| 09:46.29 | chem|st | mv 'find / -type f -iname *iPhone*user*' /dev/null |
| 09:46.56 | DocScrutinizer | err wut? what's wrong with HAM source? |
| 09:47.23 | alterego | HAM is open. Just links with closed crap. |
| 09:47.27 | crashanddie | "Haha, everytime Apple releases an update for the iPhone, you have to pay for it!" iPhone user: "PR 1.4?" N900 user: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" |
| 09:47.51 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 09:47.58 | DocScrutinizer | I'm happy with pr1.2 |
| 09:48.02 | crashanddie | same here |
| 09:48.15 | alterego | I'm pretty happy w/ 1.3 tbh |
| 09:48.22 | chem|st | crashanddie: we have apt... there will be 1.4... |
| 09:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | just sucks all my apps can't get any updates since PR1.3 |
| 09:48.49 | crashanddie | "Haha, iPhone users are morons because they pay for all their apps" -- Cuz we all know how good we've treated are game devs... And btw, Angry Birds, ovi store. 'Nuff said. |
| 09:48.57 | DocScrutinizer | even worse, I couln't re-install them |
| 09:49.00 | crashanddie | s/are/our/ |
| 09:49.05 | crashanddie | crapper |
| 09:49.57 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 09:51.10 | chem|st | more important to me, properly integrated email client with gpg support and threading, autoconnect for wpa-enterprise networks |
| 09:52.10 | DocScrutinizer | both not on my agenda, but I can understand it |
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| 09:52.15 | chem|st | since 1.3 I get this "no known networks in range" crap everywhere I know more than one network |
| 09:52.31 | DocScrutinizer | eeew |
| 09:52.48 | chem|st | exactly |
| 09:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | we should start a wikipage "why we refused to install PR1.3" |
| 09:53.45 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: next time I gonna flash I will do 1.2 again |
| 09:54.23 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: no luck. As mentioned above I think you can't install most of the apps anymore, for PR1.2 |
| 09:54.31 | nomis | moin. |
| 09:54.38 | DocScrutinizer | at least all those in extras-testing and *-devel |
| 09:54.46 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: nice |
| 09:54.50 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 09:55.05 | DocScrutinizer | nokia missed again to split the repo properly |
| 09:55.06 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: but you arent able to use it as carnavigation with 1.3 anymore |
| 09:55.49 | chem|st | doing version releases looking like SSU is not a good idea |
| 09:55.50 | edheldil | DocScrutinizer: do you mean that even after reflash to PR1.2, you are still unable to install apps? |
| 09:56.15 | DocScrutinizer | rationale: "-devel (and -testing) are not supposed to be stable, so what use is there in keeping old versions for PR1.2?" |
| 09:56.29 | DocScrutinizer | edheldil: yes, exactly |
| 09:57.18 | DocScrutinizer | this doesn't apply for maemo-extras, but I think it appies for most pkgs from *-testing and *-devel |
| 09:58.43 | edheldil | ah, you mean that there are not packages in testing and devel for PR1.2 |
| 09:58.44 | DocScrutinizer | plus Nokia still doesn't offer to do a proper *FULL* backup, as in dd if=<rootfs> of=<uSD-img-file> |
| 09:59.04 | DocScrutinizer | edheldil: yes |
| 09:59.49 | edheldil | has not somebody created boot menu backup for this? |
| 10:00.23 | DocScrutinizer | yes, but that's neither official nor in extras |
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| 10:00.43 | DocScrutinizer | nor is it properly tested and certified to work |
| 10:00.48 | DocScrutinizer | for all I know |
| 10:01.12 | jacekowski | crashanddie: it's caled socket in civilised world |
| 10:01.19 | chem|st | dd'ing a nand isnt a good idea |
| 10:01.45 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, you can't dd mounted filesystem |
| 10:01.50 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@ip-145-93-233-19.fontys.nl) |
| 10:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | so I could try if it works for me, and find myself with a broken PR1.2 and have no way to restore it |
| 10:01.54 | edheldil | chem|st: why? |
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| 10:02.05 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I know |
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| 10:02.54 | DocScrutinizer | edheldil: you can, but you'll get a mess |
| 10:03.29 | chem|st | edheldil: + what jacekowski said, reading may not be that a problem but writing it will mess the bad sectors |
| 10:03.44 | jacekowski | nope |
| 10:03.50 | DocScrutinizer | dd is like a snapshot. You know from photography the target shouldn't move while taking the snapshot |
| 10:04.01 | jacekowski | asuming that badsectors are not going to move |
| 10:04.07 | jacekowski | and i'm pretty m |
| 10:04.18 | edheldil | nand manages bad sectors internally, the os won't get them, will it? |
| 10:04.19 | jacekowski | pretty sure that badsectors are done in controller in omap |
| 10:04.22 | jacekowski | not in software |
| 10:04.37 | jacekowski | edheldil: nah, badsectors are not touched by nand itself |
| 10:04.41 | chem|st | jacekowski: that will change over time |
| 10:04.44 | jacekowski | it's up to controller or software |
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| 10:05.06 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: WUT? |
| 10:05.47 | DocScrutinizer | no bad sectors aware controler there |
| 10:05.51 | chem|st | jacekowski: that sounds more like flash what you are talking about |
| 10:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
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| 10:06.21 | jacekowski | nope |
| 10:06.21 | DocScrutinizer | nand basically has no controller |
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| 10:06.25 | jacekowski | yes |
| 10:06.27 | jacekowski | no |
| 10:06.32 | jacekowski | there is controler in omap |
| 10:06.35 | chem|st | jacekowski: make up your mind |
| 10:06.43 | jacekowski | that talks to onenand |
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| 10:07.09 | HRH_H_Crab | hi, i wonder if someone can help. i have the enhanced kernel for power users installed (at least its appearing in my list of uninstallable packages, and i know its been working in the past) |
| 10:07.17 | HRH_H_Crab | but it doesnt seem to be my current kernel. |
| 10:07.28 | *** join/#maemo Gizmokid- (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com) |
| 10:07.31 | HRH_H_Crab | i have no ipv6 module or iptables modules |
| 10:07.35 | HRH_H_Crab | can anyone assist? |
| 10:07.50 | jacekowski | uninstall it |
| 10:07.52 | jacekowski | and install again |
| 10:07.53 | HRH_H_Crab | (if i look at the list of installable packages i cant see any kernels) |
| 10:07.55 | HRH_H_Crab | o.k. |
| 10:07.59 | HRH_H_Crab | i'll give that a try! |
| 10:08.02 | HRH_H_Crab | thanks |
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| 10:13.59 | HRH_H_Crab | jacekowski: hmmm |
| 10:14.10 | HRH_H_Crab | it says it cant uninstall it... |
| 10:14.42 | mece | is it just me that thinks kim jong-il couldn't come up with a good name for his kid so he just named him what they had been calling him all along: young one |
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| 10:18.39 | ynave | hye ! |
| 10:19.21 | ynave | someone tried to setup maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh on ubuntu 10.10 ? i'have alway same error : Error opening terminal: xterm. |
| 10:19.21 | ynave | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:19.26 | ynave | but xterm is installed |
| 10:19.34 | pupnik | I'm going to have some fake-crab ramen and think about that |
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| 10:21.58 | HRH_H_Crab | "can only be uninstalled with the application Deinstall-kernel-power" |
| 10:22.06 | HRH_H_Crab | but i cant find that application anywhere?! |
| 10:22.33 | pupnik | ubuntu breaks a lot of things |
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| 10:23.12 | pupnik | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation ynave, folowing this i hope |
| 10:23.42 | ynave | pupnik: already following :s that was good with previous ubunt version |
| 10:24.33 | chem|st | ynave: get a proper distribution... |
| 10:24.44 | ynave | lol no troll please :) |
| 10:25.06 | chem|st | ynave: that was no trolling... I am for real! |
| 10:25.22 | ynave | wich proper distribution ? |
| 10:25.37 | pupnik | what about setting debug output for the sh script |
| 10:25.37 | chem|st | ynave: starter or expert? |
| 10:25.37 | ynave | maemo give package to setup for ubuntu/debian, just easy :( |
| 10:25.50 | ynave | middle expert |
| 10:26.14 | ynave | but ubuntu is good for working, etc.. I've no time to setup everything now |
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| 10:26.29 | chem|st | and you are not tired of ubuntu yet? |
| 10:26.38 | ynave | little yes |
| 10:26.42 | chem|st | ok |
| 10:26.48 | ynave | but... time is money |
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| 10:27.10 | chem|st | for productive environments you may use debian |
| 10:27.44 | chem|st | once setup you may leave it running in that state until someone needs newer libs... |
| 10:28.02 | pupnik | would set +e help debug the script? |
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| 10:28.40 | pupnik | chem|st: yes, with debian there are less people working to break my distro |
| 10:28.57 | ynave | yes I love debian from many times |
| 10:29.02 | ynave | hum just find a workaround : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65630&highlight=ubuntu+10.10+sdk |
| 10:29.14 | pupnik | oh nice |
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| 10:30.17 | chem|st | pupnik: that is what ubuntu is looking like... just yesterday I was told that once upgraded with apt-get the auto-updater refused to work anymore... another very good reason to not use it |
| 10:31.40 | ynave | erf does'nt work :s |
| 10:32.51 | pupnik | it's kind of like ubuntu is the debian for kids who want to change the world |
| 10:32.52 | pupnik | lo |
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| 10:33.14 | pupnik | and debian is like the guys 20 years older going 'wut?' |
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| 10:42.38 | sivang | Morning |
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| 11:00.38 | rtyler | anybody had their power connector fail? |
| 11:00.41 | rtyler | on an n900 that is |
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| 11:00.56 | chem|st | rtyler: please elaborate |
| 11:01.05 | rtyler | http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/nokia-n900-micro-usb-connectors-prone-to-failure/ |
| 11:01.09 | rtyler | crap like that :( |
| 11:02.04 | chem|st | rtyler: I did not and most of n900 didn't but people crying are more common to be in public than people just having a working phone |
| 11:02.17 | rtyler | oh, I know |
| 11:02.32 | rtyler | it's certainly an issue IMHO, I'm just wondering how fast people got it turned aroun |
| 11:02.42 | rtyler | looks like being in the US puts me in a tough position |
| 11:02.55 | chem|st | rtyler: it is a design flaw that it is soldered to the pcb but I guess that is another weird USB standard compliant feature! |
| 11:03.17 | rtyler | this guy has a good overview of the design failure: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/connecting-on-the-surface-an-n900-risk/ |
| 11:03.37 | rtyler | I didn't get my degree in EE, but even I know not to surface mount connectors like this |
| 11:03.45 | rtyler | *especially* the bloody power connector |
| 11:04.54 | Termana | "this guy" being Texrat |
| 11:04.55 | Termana | :p |
| 11:05.31 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@alpskari.asiantuntijat.org) |
| 11:05.38 | rtyler | I idle too much in here to do proper name recognition, I figured there'd be a chance he'd be lurking 'round here |
| 11:06.34 | chem|st | Termana: had it on my text line and missed to send before looking on other stuff ;) |
| 11:06.43 | Termana | ;) |
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| 11:07.11 | chem|st | rtyler: I read it only from tabulacrypticum not from IRC... |
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| 11:08.05 | Venemo_N900 | HRH_H_Crab: you can't uninstall it from HAM, you need to run its deinstall thingy from the app menu |
| 11:08.38 | chem|st | rtyler: as I said, I guess it is a USB standard compliance due to it is being a charging port |
| 11:08.40 | rtyler | better back up to my memory card since it's clear that this thing is not going to recharge before repair |
| 11:08.55 | rtyler | chem|st: USB spec says everything has to be surface mounted on the board? |
| 11:09.39 | chem|st | rtyler: I don't know but I guess they would have done it otherwise clamp mounted like everything else in the device |
| 11:10.27 | chem|st | everything but the microusb connector is with springs even the antennas |
| 11:11.20 | chem|st | well buttons are not but I guess that is ok |
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| 11:14.08 | rtyler | well, it'd be nice if this backup app worked properly :( |
| 11:14.11 | rtyler | starts crying |
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| 11:18.00 | HRH_H_Crab | Venemo_N900: i think i fixed it |
| 11:18.26 | HRH_H_Crab | i actually had to run some scary commandline deinstaller which popped up a "this can brick your device" warning |
| 11:18.33 | HRH_H_Crab | but it all worked o.k. |
| 11:18.49 | HRH_H_Crab | once that had completed i was then able to reinstall the poweruser kernel |
| 11:19.09 | BCMM | the term "brick" keeps getting woolier |
| 11:19.45 | BCMM | time was, it meant you had an expensive paperweight. on the n900, some people just mean "time to reflash again" |
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| 11:20.39 | Termana | BCMM, soft brick vs hard brick. Since you really can't brick the N900, it's always going to be an assumed soft brick |
| 11:20.57 | Termana | Unless the person states otherwise |
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| 11:21.14 | BCMM | can't brick? try overclocking. |
| 11:21.46 | BCMM | but yeah, originally i think it meant break permanantly in a strictly softwareish way |
| 11:22.19 | BCMM | like overwriting an ibm-compatible's BIOS eeprom with a picture of a kitten |
| 11:23.54 | Termana | Technically you could overwrite the N900's bootloader and then you would have a "hard brick" (since most people wouldn't have the appropriate JTAG equipment to fix this laying around) |
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| 11:25.19 | jacekowski | Termana: bullshit |
| 11:25.31 | jacekowski | Termana: you can't brick n900 |
| 11:25.40 | jacekowski | Termana: N900 rom can boot from usb |
| 11:25.42 | rtyler | that sounds like a challenge |
| 11:25.53 | jacekowski | Termana: and using that you can flash it without jtag |
| 11:26.14 | SpeedEvil | n900 internal ROM? |
| 11:26.17 | Termana | jacekowski, hmm ok. |
| 11:26.20 | Termana | Tested this? |
| 11:26.26 | jacekowski | yes |
| 11:26.32 | jacekowski | ~coldflash |
| 11:26.32 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing |
| 11:26.38 | jacekowski | read that log |
| 11:26.40 | SpeedEvil | That is - on-die RAM - not onenand, or ... |
| 11:26.59 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: there is ROM inside of omap |
| 11:27.04 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: with small bootloader |
| 11:27.09 | SpeedEvil | yes - I know - on-die |
| 11:27.26 | SpeedEvil | It may not be enabled without pin-strapping I meant. |
| 11:27.38 | Termana | jacekowski, hmm ok - well that's nice to know |
| 11:28.05 | SpeedEvil | If it shows Nokia USB, it can't be the boot rom |
| 11:28.22 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it can be |
| 11:28.29 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it's in one of TRMs |
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| 11:28.39 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: that if efuses are still OK it will use id's stored there |
| 11:28.52 | jacekowski | like VID/PID/names |
| 11:28.56 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 11:29.12 | SpeedEvil | Interesting |
| 11:29.51 | jacekowski | only way to hard brick n900 is probably overclock it a lot |
| 11:29.56 | jacekowski | or water |
| 11:30.11 | SpeedEvil | Or to coldflash >100000 times |
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| 11:31.02 | jacekowski | nah |
| 11:31.08 | jacekowski | usb connector should last longer |
| 11:31.22 | jacekowski | besides, you can always unplug it on host side |
| 11:31.56 | jacekowski | and n900 boot rom is reading first couple blocks looking for valid bootloader |
| 11:32.13 | jacekowski | and then will continue to look for other boot devices |
| 11:32.30 | jacekowski | so you may end up having to boot phone from serial port |
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| 11:34.17 | rtyler | I suppose the n900 is the only maemo powered device on the planet isn't it? |
| 11:34.38 | noobmonk3y | rtyler n800, n810 etc? |
| 11:34.55 | rtyler | s/device/phone/ |
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| 11:35.19 | rtyler | I played with an 800 a while back over a weekend, terribly underpowered IMHO |
| 11:35.25 | rtyler | even the n900 is a little sluggish these days |
| 11:35.43 | rtyler | some of Nokia's new Symbian^bleh hardware is pretty stellar though |
| 11:36.26 | *** join/#maemo jave`` (~user@109.58.59.32.bredband.tre.se) |
| 11:37.13 | noobmonk3y | lcuk: is having two bacon baguettes greedy? |
| 11:37.57 | lcuk | noobmonk3y, not at all. |
| 11:38.48 | noobmonk3y | lcuk: good good....... i'll inform the boss that i'm not a greedy ... so and so |
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| 11:41.38 | pupnik | what hardware exactly rtyler |
| 11:43.38 | rtyler | this guy http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/04/27/the-nokia-n8-nokias-new-flagship-phone-is-official/ |
| 11:44.37 | noobmonk3y | written in april 2010........... |
| 11:44.48 | pupnik | yep noobmonk3y |
| 11:44.57 | rtyler | http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n8 |
| 11:45.19 | rtyler | the device looks snazzy in most respects, except that whole symbian thing :) |
| 11:45.29 | *** join/#maemo Gizmokid- (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com) |
| 11:45.30 | noobmonk3y | rtyler: have you tried symbian 3? |
| 11:45.38 | pupnik | i had no problems using it - i liked symbian3 just fine |
| 11:45.53 | pupnik | just not a fun OS to play with |
| 11:45.56 | noobmonk3y | so why 'except that whole symbian thing'? |
| 11:45.59 | noobmonk3y | oh fair do's |
| 11:46.01 | rtyler | I don't doubt that it's usable, but I bought the n900 specifically to support maemo and Linux on my phone :) |
| 11:46.04 | noobmonk3y | not all devices suit everyone :) |
| 11:46.15 | rtyler | (having python around has actually been highly useful) |
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| 11:48.12 | pupnik | mhm |
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| 11:50.37 | rtyler | I suppose this means until I get my n900 repaired I'll be doing a lot less goofing off on the train to work and more reading :/ |
| 11:51.46 | BCMM | have you been port-scanning those accidental winXP ad-hocs on the train :) |
| 11:52.16 | rtyler | heh, I've considered it :) |
| 11:52.51 | BCMM | have you seen "free public wifi"? |
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| 11:53.12 | rtyler | certainly, and some hp-setup |
| 11:53.18 | rtyler | and some ZWIRE* |
| 11:53.24 | chem|st | I like to send weird pictures to all those people leaving their BT on... |
| 11:53.29 | BCMM | it's a sort of virus that spreads using human minds and winxp |
| 11:54.02 | BCMM | windows xp in some configurations maintains the last ad-hoc you were connected to |
| 11:54.07 | rtyler | I wish I could flash my old Neo 1973 with a useful operating system |
| 11:54.14 | pupnik | it would be great to make all the laptops on a train start playing the same sounds at once |
| 11:54.22 | SpeedEvil | shr-t? |
| 11:54.22 | rtyler | instead I will have to use this crap windows mobile phone with a partially messed up keyboard :'( |
| 11:54.31 | BCMM | so someone somewhere started an ad-hoc called "free public wifi" |
| 11:54.45 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: it's a windows thing. |
| 11:54.48 | BCMM | and it's spreading around the world |
| 11:54.53 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: It starts up in ad-hoc mode. |
| 11:54.54 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 11:54.58 | SpeedEvil | sorry. |
| 11:55.10 | SpeedEvil | I should do the backscroll reading thing. Or the more sleep thing. |
| 11:55.23 | pupnik | it's a trojan that sets up an adhoc hotspot? |
| 11:55.27 | BCMM | nah |
| 11:55.37 | pupnik | that would be funny too |
| 11:55.45 | pupnik | all windows users must share their 3g |
| 11:55.49 | BCMM | pupnik: it's stupider than that |
| 11:55.52 | rtyler | pupnik: Windows XP has this thing where if there's an ad-hoc network, it'll connect to it, then next time that machine is "out in the wild" it'll advertise that same ad-hoc network |
| 11:56.40 | BCMM | people connect to it wanting free public wifi, and their machines maintain said ad-hoc even after the original machine has gone |
| 11:56.54 | pupnik | that's hilarious |
| 11:56.57 | pupnik | :) |
| 11:57.02 | BCMM | it has actually reached multiple continents |
| 11:57.03 | rtyler | idiocy |
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| 11:57.45 | BCMM | i met it in a boring post office queue on my n900 on the same day i heard of it's prevelance in america |
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| 11:58.57 | BCMM | so it's a sorta virus that includes no executable code whatsoever |
| 11:59.10 | rtyler | like American Idol |
| 11:59.18 | SpeedEvil | It's more like a prion. |
| 11:59.25 | BCMM | haha |
| 11:59.57 | BCMM | no code, but the ability to turn things into itself... |
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| 12:02.26 | aquatix | no, it's not a virus |
| 12:02.30 | *** join/#maemo Gizmokid- (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com) |
| 12:02.34 | aquatix | it's (really!) a feature of winxp |
| 12:02.41 | aquatix | not sure why it does that though |
| 12:02.50 | BCMM | well, it spreads from machine to machine |
| 12:02.56 | rtyler | bug == feature |
| 12:03.00 | BCMM | using a stupid feature |
| 12:03.06 | BCMM | like any proper virus |
| 12:03.08 | aquatix | it just broadcasts its last-used wifi spot |
| 12:03.08 | aquatix | yep |
| 12:03.15 | aquatix | BCMM: in that regard, true |
| 12:03.51 | chem|st | like the safari carpet bomb |
| 12:03.51 | BCMM | my point is really that it clearly isn't, but it fits several definitions |
| 12:04.06 | BCMM | that isn't infectious |
| 12:04.20 | aquatix | :) |
| 12:04.30 | aquatix | it's a bit like dna |
| 12:04.55 | rtyler | do you guys know how soon Nokia is supposedly going to have a meego phone on the market? |
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| 12:05.34 | chem|st | rtyler: somewhere next summer |
| 12:06.14 | rtyler | feels like he's watching openmoko all over again |
| 12:08.46 | pupnik | how so |
| 12:09.29 | pupnik | when i think of how awful android 1.6 was |
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| 12:09.49 | pupnik | and yet all these mfgrs started making phones for it |
| 12:09.59 | SpeedEvil | It was free |
| 12:10.07 | rtyler | pupnik: the openmoko project had some good things going for them with their python + gtk-based stack, then they threw it all away and started over |
| 12:10.13 | rtyler | feels very much like Maemo -> MeeGo |
| 12:10.16 | pupnik | ahh |
| 12:10.24 | rtyler | and in the meantime, everybody else that didn't take their eyes off the ball passed them up |
| 12:10.33 | pupnik | poor gtk |
| 12:10.34 | SpeedEvil | yep |
| 12:10.43 | rtyler | the OSS version of MeeGo phone distribution is beyond a joke |
| 12:10.54 | SpeedEvil | If openmoko had a clue, they could have shipped hardware for xmas 2007 |
| 12:11.11 | SpeedEvil | I had in march of that year a functional phone. |
| 12:11.13 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: if openmoko had a clue, they would have done a lot of things :) |
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| 12:11.15 | SpeedEvil | It had a few bugs. |
| 12:11.24 | SpeedEvil | But it fundamentally worked. |
| 12:11.39 | rtyler | I have a 1973 still, I remember getting it and thinking "okay, I'll tinker with this, but it will be X months before I make a phone call? oi" |
| 12:12.11 | SpeedEvil | I am about to recycle my neo. |
| 12:12.11 | rtyler | it's just concerning, MeeGo is pretty snazzy for a netbook right now, but the phone version simply isn't there |
| 12:12.17 | SpeedEvil | Into a microwave oven controller |
| 12:12.29 | rtyler | which means Maemo5 is pretty much it for the lifetime of this n900 of mine |
| 12:12.35 | pupnik | i don't know if it's smart to tie meego to the flagship phone |
| 12:12.37 | rtyler | provided I get it bloody repaired :'( |
| 12:12.50 | rtyler | pupnik: which flagship phone is that? |
| 12:12.58 | pupnik | meego should also run on $300 phones as well |
| 12:13.05 | pupnik | and it needs to |
| 12:13.09 | rtyler | nods |
| 12:13.24 | rtyler | that original $600 USD price tag for the n900 was absurd :P |
| 12:13.37 | rtyler | I only purchased after it came down to 400 in early autumn |
| 12:13.53 | pupnik | still over 400 here |
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| 12:14.02 | rtyler | pupnik: I'm not sure there are many android phones that are under $300 |
| 12:14.20 | rtyler | the problem is Nokia couldn't carrier-subsidize the n900 at all, Americans don't like unlocked phones for some reason |
| 12:15.04 | pupnik | americans seem susceptible to financial traps |
| 12:15.22 | rtyler | I don't know what you're talking about |
| 12:15.31 | rtyler | but would you like to hear about this GREAT TIME SHARE OPPORTUNITY? |
| 12:15.40 | pupnik | :) |
| 12:15.45 | rtyler | also, could I interest you in some NASCAR collectible plates? |
| 12:15.48 | SpeedEvil | I want every odd microsecond |
| 12:15.58 | BCMM | short term vs. long term |
| 12:16.00 | pupnik | european telecoms also do horrible things |
| 12:16.13 | BCMM | if the phone is free upfront, it's free, right? |
| 12:16.18 | pupnik | lol |
| 12:16.37 | rtyler | BCMM: sounds like a question for philosoratpor |
| 12:16.40 | pupnik | i ask americans how much a phone costs, and they literally answer things like only $50! |
| 12:16.46 | rtyler | philosoraptor* rather |
| 12:16.49 | BCMM | see also credit cards, the subprime crisis |
| 12:17.06 | rtyler | BCMM: you should see mattress sales here |
| 12:17.11 | rtyler | (if you're not American) |
| 12:17.18 | rtyler | "NO MONEY DOWN UNTIL JUNE OF NEXT YEAR!" |
| 12:17.28 | rtyler | so free sofa right? kthxbai |
| 12:17.39 | BCMM | we get that around christmas in the uk |
| 12:17.42 | pupnik | however electronics prices are cheaper there |
| 12:17.55 | BCMM | on all furniture-type things |
| 12:17.57 | rtyler | indeed, which is nice |
| 12:18.22 | pupnik | let's have more currency swings. It was like christmas when amazon.co.uk suddenly had the best prices in europe |
| 12:18.24 | BCMM | we've been moving towards the us model of "credit is like free money" |
| 12:18.33 | rtyler | wait |
| 12:18.36 | rtyler | it isn't |
| 12:18.38 | rtyler | ? |
| 12:18.40 | Choom | not me |
| 12:18.48 | Choom | I've never had any debts |
| 12:18.53 | Choom | and I'm proud of it |
| 12:18.58 | rtyler | BCMM: surely somebody would have told me that while I was in school |
| 12:19.25 | pupnik | i also should be making cheese |
| 12:19.28 | BCMM | Choom: well, we have compulsory debt for students now... |
| 12:19.45 | rtyler | pupnik: I support cheese, go forth! |
| 12:19.53 | BCMM | used to be possible to make the lifestlye choice to live within your means |
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| 12:20.06 | Choom | in fact, the only reason why I even have a credit card is because of online transactions |
| 12:20.08 | BCMM | but now that means no uni or rich parents |
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| 12:20.31 | rtyler | Choom: I use a gold AMEX card for all that, it's technically a charge card with no credit line behind it |
| 12:20.33 | BCMM | who doesn't take debit? |
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| 12:21.01 | rtyler | BCMM: I'd rather deal with a credit card company than my bank with fraud or chargebacks |
| 12:21.11 | BCMM | ah |
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| 12:24.27 | rtyler | holy crap, qtmoko runs on the 1973 reasonably well |
| 12:24.37 | rtyler | I might have a linux phone while the n900 is repaired after all |
| 12:26.06 | MohammadAG | N8: excellent build quality, for a month at least |
| 12:26.19 | MohammadAG | part above camera is creaky |
| 12:26.59 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: have you tried shr-t? |
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| 12:27.46 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: no idea what that is, so nerp |
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| 12:32.15 | rtyler | falls asleep |
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| 12:43.58 | DocScrutinizer | rtyler: \o/ |
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| 12:46.32 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, did you get any response from the SDK team? |
| 12:46.50 | apic | Hi everyone. I flashed the FIASCO image but booted instead of just flashing the VANILLA image afterwards. Can I rescue this situation somehow? |
| 12:47.09 | apic | I tried Mass Storage mount, but can't access /dev/sdc |
| 12:47.57 | apic | When I try just flashing FIASCO, I somehow can't stop my N900 from booting (showing the 5 dots) |
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| 12:48.18 | apic | I use Slackware linux and flasher-3.5 |
| 12:48.46 | apic | I flashed with: flasher-3.5 -f -F FIASCO_IMAGE; flasher-3.5 -f -F VANILLA_IMAGE -R |
| 12:48.55 | apic | But the 2nd time it can't find the USB device anymore... |
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| 12:49.43 | apic | Now it can't even open "First Steps", says too little storage... |
| 12:49.57 | apic | Can I partition the Flash myself? |
| 12:50.04 | apic | The integrated MMC? |
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| 12:52.24 | chem|st | apic: just make sure the partitions are sorted like before size does not matter |
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| 12:53.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | apic: flshing rootfs only is perfectly allowable |
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| 12:55.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you want to flash eMMC as well, then flash that first, without bootning (no -R) Then remove battery to stop when done. and go on to flashing rootfs |
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| 12:56.17 | apic | Ok, thanks! |
| 12:56.21 | Triscar0 | i cant find "i am here" and i have added the catalogs |
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| 13:00.38 | achipa | X-Fade: ping |
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| 13:33.57 | frank__ | question: why does wget appear in the fremantle repository, but not in application manager nor on the website? |
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| 13:36.11 | DocScrutinizer | "wrong" category |
| 13:36.45 | DocScrutinizer | app mngr doesn't show the category wget is in |
| 13:37.25 | frank__ | is the categorisation part of apt-get or maemo? |
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| 13:37.34 | DocScrutinizer | maemo |
| 13:37.46 | DocScrutinizer | apt-get install wget |
| 13:38.29 | DocScrutinizer | there's also been some red-pill mode |
| 13:38.44 | frank__ | that's safe to do because it's still from the maemo repository, right? |
| 13:38.55 | DocScrutinizer | which afaik makes (or made) appmgr show all catergories |
| 13:39.03 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:39.35 | frank__ | ah, so it's only apt-getting from non-maemo repositories I need to worry about? |
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| 13:40.30 | thp | frank__: depends on how you define 'worry about' |
| 13:40.45 | DocScrutinizer | not exactly, it's apps from maemo-extras-devel you should be careful, and also apt-get upgrade usually breaks your device |
| 13:40.57 | MohammadAG | red pill was removed, at least the "matrix" way of activating it |
| 13:41.17 | Flyser_mobile | Hi, I am having problems connecting to my ICQ account using the contacts plugin on my N900. Do you have a suggestion, how I can debug my issue? |
| 13:41.25 | DocScrutinizer | yes, but I *think* the file-edit mode might still work on pr1.3 HAM |
| 13:41.52 | DocScrutinizer | though I'm not even sure if it worked in pr1.2 |
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| 13:43.28 | frank__ | right, so only apt-get install/remove, and only extras, and that'll be safe? |
| 13:43.37 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:44.01 | frank__ | great |
| 13:44.23 | frank__ | got a N900 yesterday, loving the openness of maemo, but a little afraid of bricking the thing |
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| 13:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | no problem |
| 13:44.47 | DocScrutinizer | you can not "brick" it |
| 13:45.18 | pupnik | go forth young man, and hack! |
| 13:45.19 | DocScrutinizer | worst thing that can happen is you need to (cold-)flash |
| 13:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | so keep a backup of your system - there's backup app for that |
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| 13:46.10 | DocScrutinizer | use it now, to get familiar with it |
| 13:46.17 | DocScrutinizer | also for a restore |
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| 13:47.00 | DocScrutinizer | frank__: and welcome to the club :-D |
| 13:47.08 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 13:47.15 | MohammadAG | is /sbin/preinit on rootfs? |
| 13:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | where else? |
| 13:47.48 | noobmonk3y | has yet to actually see a bricked device... people use that term to often, it aint bricked if you can reflash the thing, lol |
| 13:47.48 | DocScrutinizer | you're thinking about how to recover from accidental boot? |
| 13:48.00 | *** join/#maemo Gizmokid- (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com) |
| 13:48.05 | MohammadAG | so rootfs is mounted right when NOLO loads the kernel? |
| 13:48.28 | MohammadAG | no, just thinking of how maemo boots |
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| 13:48.46 | DocScrutinizer | yes, on maemo5 it's like that |
| 13:48.50 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 13:48.59 | frank__ | DocScrutinizer: thanks! loving something that includes xterm with the default install :D |
| 13:49.08 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:49.36 | Triscar0 | where can i find the anti thief tool "i am here"? cant find |
| 13:49.37 | DocScrutinizer | I'm loving it since a year now, though you hear me constantly bitching and swearing |
| 13:49.59 | CaCO3 | Hi all |
| 13:50.02 | DocScrutinizer | IT-tourette |
| 13:50.34 | DocScrutinizer | hi CaCO3 |
| 13:51.12 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that's why a full image backup is so problematic |
| 13:51.45 | CaCO3 | I am playing with MohammadAGs pvrcreator application, but I get an error when I use it. So I tried to follow the example from the forum (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63641&highlight=pvrcreator) but even that does not work for me. Mediaplayer still does not have a splash screen |
| 13:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | you'd need to pivot-root out of the initial /, to allow doing a proper dd |
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| 13:52.24 | MohammadAG | CaCO3, what error? |
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| 13:54.32 | CaCO3 | MohammadAG: It opens my screenshot, but then nothing more happens. The terminal shows this warning: |
| 13:54.34 | CaCO3 | /usr/bin/pvrcreator.py:67: Warning: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed |
| 13:54.35 | CaCO3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:55.16 | MohammadAG | works fine for me |
| 13:55.20 | MohammadAG | even after a reflash |
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| 13:56.09 | DocScrutinizer | pvrcreator? |
| 13:56.15 | CaCO3 | yup |
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| 13:56.35 | CaCO3 | hmm, if I interpret it right, then thats as supposed |
| 13:57.17 | CaCO3 | but where is the created pvr file then? |
| 13:57.17 | MohammadAG | do you get a file in /home/user/.cache/launch? |
| 13:57.30 | MohammadAG | org.maemo.pvrcreator.pvr |
| 13:57.33 | CaCO3 | Nokia-N900:/home/user/.cache/launch# ls |
| 13:57.35 | CaCO3 | com.nokia.backup.pvr com.nokia.mediaplayer.pvr com.nokia.osso_pdfviewer.pvr |
| 13:57.36 | CaCO3 | com.nokia.controlpanel.pvr com.nokia.modest.pvr com.nokia.worldclock.pvr |
| 13:57.38 | CaCO3 | com.nokia.hildon_application_manager.pvr com.nokia.osso_calculator.pvr com.nokia.xterm.pvr |
| 13:57.49 | CaCO3 | pvrcreator is missing there |
| 13:58.14 | MohammadAG | where'd you get com.nokia.mediaplayer.pvr then? |
| 13:58.27 | CaCO3 | I renamed anothe rone from that folder |
| 13:58.35 | CaCO3 | for testing |
| 13:58.39 | DocScrutinizer | what does pvrcreator? |
| 13:58.58 | CaCO3 | it makes a splash screen, so the user feels the app quicler loaded |
| 13:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | oooh, that one |
| 13:59.20 | MohammadAG | install python-gobject (as a test) |
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| 13:59.42 | CaCO3 | python-gobject is already the newest version. |
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| 14:01.14 | MohammadAG | and i'm assuming you're running pvrcreator.py as user? |
| 14:01.15 | DocScrutinizer | so I could replace that fsckng settings load gap clown screen that does nothing and fools me every time, by a nice fsckfinger, so I don't try to tap the button of an image |
| 14:01.40 | CaCO3 | :) yup |
| 14:01.43 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, exactly |
| 14:01.57 | CaCO3 | I actually would also preffer a splashscreen instead a screenshot |
| 14:02.19 | CaCO3 | and that should be possible with pvrcreator |
| 14:02.24 | MohammadAG | that's what I do with PSFreedom |
| 14:02.56 | MohammadAG | code is based on thp's trophae and frals's fMMS |
| 14:03.12 | MohammadAG | oh and Jaffa's hermes |
| 14:03.19 | MohammadAG | install fmms and see if it works |
| 14:03.25 | CaCO3 | I saw that, but do not yet understand how to implement it ino my app. So i started with pvrcreator |
| 14:04.03 | thp | CaCO3: you just have to tell the window manager to take a screenshot of your app at a "good" time (what a good time is depends on what your app displays |
| 14:04.20 | CaCO3 | yup, i know |
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| 14:04.36 | CaCO3 | but the pvr file seems not to get used |
| 14:05.19 | thp | maybe your window id / window (class?) name does not match? |
| 14:05.30 | thp | it could be that you also need to put the WMClass into your .desktop, I don't know |
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| 14:06.02 | thp | the definitive answer lies somewhere in the hildon-desktop source if you have the time and motivation to dig into it ;) |
| 14:06.06 | CaCO3 | it works on fMMS, but the screenshot is very low quallity |
| 14:06.08 | trx | hello |
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| 14:06.48 | thp | CaCO3: also, what about trying to improve startup time? showing your window early, delaying loading of other stuff, etc.. |
| 14:07.11 | CaCO3 | its python, so its slow anyway, but also I am working on that |
| 14:08.01 | thp | CaCO3: try putting your imports not at the top of the file, but only after you have created / shown your window - even if you still need to populate the window's contents |
| 14:08.09 | CaCO3 | So i did a "cp se.frals.fmms.pvr com.nokia.mediaplayer.pvr", but Media Player still does not have asplash screen |
| 14:09.20 | trx | i am trying to build an application for n900 using lazarus but am having troubles translating the headers from c to pascal, do headers for pascal exist somewhere maybe? |
| 14:09.23 | CaCO3 | thp: thanks, i will try that. Also i read that the main file should be small to speed up the start. Is that correct? |
| 14:09.50 | thp | CaCO3: try it, profile and see if it works for you ;) |
| 14:10.27 | MohammadAG | thp, you just need a .service file :) |
| 14:10.46 | MohammadAG | (and of course, you have to put X-Osso-Service in the .desktop file) |
| 14:11.05 | CaCO3 | does mediaplayer have that all by default? |
| 14:11.20 | thp | MohammadAG: so, h-d only works when apps are started using d-bus activation? |
| 14:11.27 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 14:12.08 | MohammadAG | thp, no, the splash screen only works when starting the app with dbus |
| 14:12.35 | thp | erm yeah.. what's what i meant to write ;) |
| 14:12.39 | thp | s/what/that/ |
| 14:12.45 | MohammadAG | dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"$appname" |
| 14:13.00 | MohammadAG | apparently, it shows the screenshot from where the mouse pointer is |
| 14:13.20 | MohammadAG | so the screenshot sorta open from the mouse pointer (which is invisible) |
| 14:13.24 | MohammadAG | opens* |
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| 14:14.21 | MohammadAG | thp, not sure if I've mentioned this here on #maemo, but I've been thinking of making h-d use a darker colour for inactive areas, instead of a blur |
| 14:14.29 | MohammadAG | like Symbian^3/MeeGo |
| 14:14.38 | thp | sounds good :) |
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| 14:15.46 | CaCO3 | Does not work: :( |
| 14:15.49 | CaCO3 | dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"mediaplayer" |
| 14:16.18 | thp | CaCO3: media player is "special". try with some third party app |
| 14:16.32 | thp | (because i believe it is kept in memory even when closed to improve its startup time) |
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| 14:16.48 | CaCO3 | :) but mediaplayer is the example in the forum |
| 14:17.13 | thp | link? |
| 14:17.26 | CaCO3 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63641&highlight=pvrcreator |
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| 14:19.49 | thp | CaCO3: in that case, MohammadAG should be able to help you ;) |
| 14:20.06 | thp | CaCO3: also, killing hildon-desktop every now and then might fix things |
| 14:20.15 | trx | hm, so nobody uses lazarus? :( |
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| 14:24.11 | MohammadAG | CaCO3, yes, and it works for me, not sure what's different really :/ |
| 14:24.34 | CaCO3 | what works for you? |
| 14:24.41 | MohammadAG | I just generated a pvr file from a 800x424 png screenshot |
| 14:25.46 | CaCO3 | hmm, I guess it might be a problem when i run it asroot? (because SSh is always root) |
| 14:25.52 | CaCO3 | let me try it as normal user |
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| 14:27.13 | Triscar0 | why cant i find anyplace to download "i am here" theif tool? |
| 14:28.13 | CaCO3 | MohammadAG: it doesn work as normal user from terminal either |
| 14:28.29 | MohammadAG | use the icon |
| 14:28.39 | Termana | BCMM_: This guy is kidding himself right? :p |
| 14:29.54 | CaCO3 | MohammadAG: it doesn work as normal user from terminal either, but when I start it from the menu |
| 14:30.23 | CaCO3 | and it also gets shown when i stratpvrcreator next time! |
| 14:30.40 | MohammadAG | it? |
| 14:30.58 | CaCO3 | it works when I start pvrcreator from the menu |
| 14:31.03 | CaCO3 | instead drom the terminaöl |
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| 14:35.55 | MohammadAG | dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"pvrcreator" |
| 14:36.01 | MohammadAG | should launch it with the screenshot |
| 14:36.32 | Flyser_mobile | Hi, I am having problems connecting to my ICQ account using the contacts plugin on my N900. Do you have a suggestion, how I can debug my issue? maybe a log file? couldnt find one |
| 14:36.34 | CaCO3 | yup that works |
| 14:39.33 | BCMM_ | Termana: wrong tab, right? |
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| 14:40.09 | Termana | BCMM_: no actually I was saying it here so the guy didn't see it, but it doesn't matter now :P |
| 14:40.30 | BCMM_ | Termana: you need to learn to use /msg |
| 14:40.39 | Termana | :p I know how to use /msg |
| 14:41.19 | MohammadAG | lmao |
| 14:41.26 | Termana | Anyway, we resolved our difference amicably. |
| 14:41.28 | Termana | Eg. He learned I was right and he was wrong |
| 14:41.41 | Termana | :p |
| 14:42.07 | MohammadAG | that's new |
| 14:42.27 | Termana | heh |
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| 14:48.25 | crashanddie | Termana, what time is it in ausland at the moment? |
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| 14:49.39 | Termana | crashanddie, in the rather boring southern part of the great ausland it is currently 1:19AM ACEST |
| 14:49.51 | Termana | err |
| 14:50.02 | crashanddie | lolwut? |
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| 14:50.07 | Termana | ACST |
| 14:50.19 | crashanddie | grumbles |
| 14:51.05 | crashanddie | the whole world pretty much agreed to the same stupid shit when it comes to time management |
| 14:51.25 | crashanddie | but australia manages to have a whole state who just don't change time ever, and another one that is 30 minutes out of synch with the rest of the world |
| 14:51.27 | Termana | Are you bagging on my +9:30? |
| 14:51.28 | Termana | :p |
| 14:52.55 | Termana | crashanddie, I think I've discussed this before, but funnily enough I've found some people over the years that I've had to actually CONVINCE that there was a time zone that had a half hour difference. The uneducated fools laughed at me |
| 14:53.51 | Termana | I guess I can't blame them when they probably couldn't even point out their country on a map |
| 14:53.53 | frank__ | what's the location of the jobs executed by /sbin/start? |
| 14:54.03 | crashanddie | Termana, I had some guy tell me that timezones were just corporations manipulating the good people of the world to make more money (ie, make us use more electricity) |
| 14:54.23 | Termana | ha |
| 14:54.56 | BCMM_ | Termana: well, it is pretty weird, and there aren't many of them |
| 14:55.21 | crashanddie | Termana, he even demonstrated his theory by calling one of his (probably only) friends, one in the same timezone, but about a thousand km away (still in France), and asking him "if it was dark outside". |
| 14:55.29 | BCMM_ | crashanddie: because the Australians would use less electricity if they were nocturnal? |
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| 15:19.01 | Jaffa | Yay, Matan's trolling again. |
| 15:19.07 | Jaffa | And this time it's at me :-) |
| 15:19.32 | GAN900 | Haha |
| 15:19.35 | GAN900 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66275&page=2 |
| 15:19.38 | GAN900 | Love it. |
| 15:20.07 | GAN900 | Jaffa the Nokia Mouthpiece. |
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| 15:20.31 | GAN900 | All that critical talk is just a Put On. |
| 15:21.05 | Jaffa | Yup. |
| 15:21.08 | Jaffa | Me love Nokia. |
| 15:21.14 | Jaffa | Me love shiny toys. |
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| 15:21.30 | Jaffa | Me love Marketing's arm up my arse. |
| 15:21.52 | GAN900 | It's warm and tingly! |
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| 15:24.18 | MohammadAG | wants the mediaplayer to be OSS |
| 15:25.07 | GAN900 | Differentiation! |
| 15:25.29 | GAN900 | Jaffa, there is the point to be made that Nokia isn't a hive mind. |
| 15:25.46 | GAN900 | Perhaps certain parties see value in the external pressure. |
| 15:25.50 | Jaffa | GAN900: Pfft, you've just had your Council Borg Implants removed. |
| 15:29.52 | GAN900 | Jaffa, is that what the special debriefing session I can't remember anything about was for? |
| 15:29.52 | RST38h | moos at GAN900 |
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| 15:34.19 | GAN900 | RST38h, you still suck for not being at the conference. |
| 15:35.08 | CaCO3 | MohammadAG: Is there a way I can include my pvr file into the debain package? i guess the autobuilder will deny it again, as it is a binary file |
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| 15:40.34 | MohammadAG | the autobuilder doesn't reject binaries |
| 15:40.38 | MohammadAG | and what's your app? |
| 15:40.44 | CaCO3 | SleepAnalyser |
| 15:40.55 | CaCO3 | So can i include a pvr file into the tar.gz? |
| 15:41.04 | MohammadAG | see psfreedom |
| 15:41.10 | CaCO3 | ok |
| 15:41.27 | CaCO3 | I also read somewhere that the pvr files get deleted when you change the theme. Is thatright? |
| 15:42.01 | MohammadAG | also see how psfreedom handles this :) |
| 15:42.10 | CaCO3 | ok, thanks |
| 15:42.27 | MohammadAG | I launch PSFreedom with a shell script in /usr/bin, it checks if the .pvr file is there, if not, it copies it and handles permissions |
| 15:42.48 | MohammadAG | don't forget to chown user:users the .pvr file in the postinst, we don't want root owned files in /home/user |
| 15:42.57 | CaCO3 | yup |
| 15:43.40 | CaCO3 | you say the autobuilder allows binaries. but why did he reject my precompiled .so file? (you remember, shedskin...) |
| 15:43.50 | CaCO3 | what are the roles for it? |
| 15:43.55 | CaCO3 | rules |
| 15:44.20 | jacekowski | non-free repository |
| 15:44.32 | jacekowski | if you want to send binaries |
| 15:44.40 | MohammadAG | it didn't reject it, you weren't doing it right |
| 15:44.49 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@32.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:44.50 | jacekowski | but MohammadAG is right |
| 15:44.51 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, it's only one PVR file |
| 15:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | frank__: /etc/event.d |
| 15:47.05 | frank__ | DocScrutinizer: ty, I'm trying to diagnose a problem with openssh without much luck - stopping the server does not kill the child connections |
| 15:47.39 | frank__ | same behaviour using both upstart and init.d methods |
| 15:49.22 | thp | frank__: i guess that's on purpose so you are not locking yourself out from the machine if you remotely stop sshd by accident |
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| 15:49.58 | frank__ | perhaps, haven't run into the behaviour before tho |
| 15:51.08 | BCMM_ | yeah, that's normal |
| 15:51.18 | BCMM_ | stopping the ssh server stops only new connection |
| 15:51.33 | BCMM_ | meaning that it can be restarted without killing existing connections |
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| 15:54.15 | frank__ | hum, only ever really used gentoo, guess I assumed their behaviour was the default. oops |
| 15:54.41 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: btw. if you're curious: These are the shutdown codes from the open source tvbgone-kit in human readable form: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/tvbgone-codes.txt |
| 15:55.22 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: I hope I did not mess up with the conversion. |
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| 15:56.57 | TiagoTiago | hi, ny idea how i can fix http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=9qMY3S4c ? |
| 15:57.00 | TiagoTiago | any* |
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| 15:59.30 | jigrap | is there a way to put compat-wireless into the latest maemo for n810? |
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| 16:11.27 | Jaffa | CaCO3: There's no difference between a .pvr file and a .png file as far as the auto-builder's concerned. |
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| 16:32.06 | JaMa|Off | can someone point me to sources of debian/u-boot.bin.gz.b64 used in kernel-power43 (same as power45), it's different than http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/u-boot.bin and I haven't found sources for diff |
| 16:35.07 | MohammadAG | probably on matan's repos |
| 16:35.11 | MohammadAG | wherever those may be |
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| 16:45.30 | DocScrutinizer | looks into friggin settings.desktop to find the switch to throw, to disale that nonsense pvr thing |
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| 16:48.46 | alterego | Strange, just got offered a job from some mobile software company. |
| 16:49.35 | SpeedEvil | imagines a van driving round developing software. |
| 16:49.53 | alterego | Well, offered is completely the wrong word, just had an enquiry about me applying for a job there. |
| 16:50.28 | alterego | Anyone know grapplemobile.com? |
| 16:50.45 | jacekowski | that ussualy means they want you to make stuff you make for them so they can make money on it not you |
| 16:51.02 | alterego | Yes, that's the impression I got. |
| 16:51.47 | jacekowski | well, apply |
| 16:51.50 | jacekowski | go for interview |
| 16:51.54 | jacekowski | and see what happens |
| 16:52.02 | jacekowski | you don't have anything to lose |
| 16:52.04 | alterego | I've sent them my CV, |
| 16:52.11 | alterego | Sure, my thoughts exactly. |
| 16:52.23 | alterego | I'd rather not work for a company that do Android and iPhone development though. |
| 16:52.39 | alterego | He did seem to be concentrating on my Qt experience. |
| 16:52.48 | alterego | Which is positive |
| 16:52.57 | jacekowski | no company registration number |
| 16:53.00 | jacekowski | on their site |
| 16:53.10 | alterego | Yeah, I'm looking at it now. |
| 16:53.17 | alterego | Those are some awful colours. |
| 16:54.04 | jacekowski | http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/grapple-mobile |
| 16:54.12 | jacekowski | Incorporation Date: |
| 16:54.13 | jacekowski | 14 Oct 2009 |
| 16:54.41 | jacekowski | and they had 6 directors in year time |
| 16:54.42 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~smooph@e180165126.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:54.46 | alterego | Hah |
| 16:55.10 | alterego | I think I'd want a bit more security tbh |
| 16:55.49 | *** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@186.212.100.161) |
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| 16:56.09 | alterego | Still if I don't hear back from any one within the next week, they're at least an option. O_O |
| 16:56.19 | alterego | I was just wondering if anyone else had had a similar experience. |
| 16:56.21 | jacekowski | i've read story of somebody working for web development company in london |
| 16:56.29 | jacekowski | similiar sort of stuff |
| 16:56.31 | jacekowski | new company |
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| 16:56.43 | jacekowski | remotely + visits to HQ |
| 16:56.58 | jacekowski | and at some point late payments started |
| 16:57.06 | alterego | "Europes #1 iPhone Developer" that's a bold statement. |
| 16:58.53 | jacekowski | and well, london |
| 16:59.09 | jacekowski | not really nice place to live in |
| 16:59.11 | jacekowski | or work |
| 16:59.26 | alterego | I don't live there, but it's an easy 40 minutes train journey. |
| 16:59.47 | alterego | They all seem to be iPhone owners. |
| 16:59.51 | alterego | Not sure I could take it :D |
| 16:59.53 | jacekowski | well, think about it |
| 17:00.06 | jacekowski | if you start work at 0800 |
| 17:00.06 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:00.08 | alterego | They're probably looking for N8 developers, as there are a few 6500 owners in the "crew". |
| 17:00.32 | jacekowski | then you have to be in london around 0720 to get trough underground |
| 17:00.36 | alterego | I used to have to commute 1hr 30m |
| 17:00.43 | alterego | And it was half the distance .. |
| 17:00.50 | alterego | I like waking up early .. |
| 17:00.56 | jacekowski | which means you have to wake up around 0600 at latest |
| 17:01.07 | jacekowski | and get back home around 1830-1900 |
| 17:01.20 | SpeedEvil | Long days. |
| 17:01.26 | SpeedEvil | And expensive housing. |
| 17:01.37 | jacekowski | + pay for your train |
| 17:01.45 | jacekowski | which is like 2-3k/year |
| 17:01.54 | jacekowski | with underground |
| 17:02.10 | jacekowski | london is a bad evil place |
| 17:02.46 | alterego | Heh, it's an option at least. |
| 17:03.00 | alterego | Well, tbh, after looking at their site, I don't think it is an option .. |
| 17:03.05 | alterego | I'm not that desperate .. |
| 17:03.11 | *** join/#maemo ZZzzZzzz_ (~ZZzzZzzz@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-58-234.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:03.32 | alterego | They've got some pretty people working for them though ... |
| 17:03.40 | *** join/#maemo smooph1 (~smooph@e180142085.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:03.45 | jacekowski | girls with big boobs? |
| 17:03.51 | alterego | :D |
| 17:03.54 | edheldil | beware of your IP, or they will try to make you unknowingly forfeit your rights to your own proggies :) |
| 17:04.00 | alterego | They all look really trendy. |
| 17:04.31 | edheldil | shudders |
| 17:05.09 | alterego | Yeah, they'll probably cringe when I say I'm releasing my app FOSS :P |
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| 17:23.28 | RST38h | Meanwhile: RIM Acquires Interface Wizards The Astonishing Tribe |
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| 17:28.20 | NooBmonk3y | hmmm wheres the best place install an app? /opt/ or /usr/local/bin ? |
| 17:28.55 | laasonen | How can I open MicroB's extension-window? |
| 17:29.26 | jacekowski | about:plugins |
| 17:31.20 | laasonen | Not that. This: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/12/Screenshot-20091024-153306.png |
| 17:31.36 | *** join/#maemo _rd_ (~rd@p57B48E4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:32.19 | kerio | laasonen: it's in... the menu? |
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| 17:32.33 | frals | NooBmonk3y: /opt/healthcheck/ ;P |
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| 17:34.53 | laasonen | I cant find any plugin settings, from there? |
| 17:35.09 | laasonen | Just information. |
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| 17:36.18 | laasonen | kerio: Thanks, I'm blind :D |
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| 17:42.22 | BCMM_ | why does maemo use cfq on mmcblk0? |
| 17:42.29 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-wcetoitvfcmkouah) |
| 17:43.25 | slonopotamus | because it can! |
| 17:43.46 | BCMM_ | i mean, i thought noop typically made sense on hardware with no seek time? |
| 17:44.04 | BCMM_ | sorry, i'm talking about the noop and cfq io schedulers |
| 17:44.19 | *** join/#maemo CableTwitch (~user@212.183.140.61) |
| 17:44.25 | CableTwitch | Yo |
| 17:44.31 | *** join/#maemo pavi (~pavi@117.241.56.12) |
| 17:44.33 | slonopotamus | no seek time doesn't mean random reads are as fast as sequential :/ |
| 17:44.48 | CableTwitch | Question... why am I getting so many invalide certificates? |
| 17:45.08 | pavi | sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL is the command , I dont have any such targets what do I do ? |
| 17:45.22 | pavi | I am following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation |
| 17:45.50 | CableTwitch | Seek time is maximum time to go from outer to inner, or vice versa. Maximum time spent to find the furthest sector. |
| 17:46.04 | pavi | I accepted the eula and added the respective sources.list but I cant use the apt in my shell because I didnt select any target as none are available |
| 17:46.06 | CableTwitch | Unless I'm confused, that it. |
| 17:46.54 | alterego | pavi: type sb-conf ls -T |
| 17:47.04 | pavi | ok |
| 17:47.23 | BCMM_ | slonopotamus: fair enough |
| 17:47.25 | pavi | I have used a interactive one to say that there are none :) |
| 17:48.19 | pavi | sb-conf ls -T lists nothing |
| 17:48.33 | pavi | I used sb-menu for an interactive shell |
| 17:48.34 | alterego | gutted, start again :) |
| 17:48.50 | pavi | alterego, start at which point ? |
| 17:49.08 | NooBmonk3y | thanks frals :) |
| 17:49.10 | alterego | Probably the beginnig, try to retrace your steps. |
| 17:49.19 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs55.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 17:49.35 | alterego | Well, scratchbox is installed, so probably after then is "safe" |
| 17:50.07 | CableTwitch | No-one else has experienced, sya, the ovi store throwing up invalid credentials, etc? |
| 17:50.23 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK2 (~PhonicUK@genkt-058-032.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 17:51.47 | CableTwitch | I guess its just me then. |
| 17:51.57 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK2 (~PhonicUK@genkt-058-032.t-mobile.co.uk) |
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| 17:56.03 | trumee | guys, i have built the N900 kernel in scratchbox to get 'NAT' support. Unfortunately, 'modprobe nf_conntrack' is giving me an error "nf_conntrack: disagrees about version of symbol skb_copy_bits". |
| 17:56.20 | mykhal | i have the nokia n900. under media player --> music --> artists, i have '1 album, 1849 songs'. all of those songs were uploaded as albums. how do i get them to be displayed in the proper albums? |
| 17:56.26 | trumee | any idea what might be wrong? |
| 17:57.52 | pavi | alterego, this was the error I got while installing maemosdk which I kind of ignored previously http://paste.debian.net/101335/ |
| 17:57.56 | pavi | its repeating |
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| 18:00.35 | trumee | anybody compiled a custom kernel for N900? |
| 18:01.59 | nidO | specifically here right now, or in general? |
| 18:02.57 | NooBmonk3y | wakes up |
| 18:03.07 | NooBmonk3y | lol nidO |
| 18:03.31 | pavi | alterego, I have xterm installed and why isn't it able to launch ? |
| 18:03.54 | pavi | I type xterm in the same terminal and it works |
| 18:04.04 | pavi | dunno why that script wasn't able to launch it |
| 18:04.09 | pavi | http://paste.debian.net/101335/ |
| 18:05.15 | pavi | well that step fails but I am still able to /scratchbox/login |
| 18:05.41 | pavi | only thing it says is sb-conf: No current target |
| 18:06.20 | pavi | well what happened I accepted more than 2 EULA's today and i get nothing bpph booh |
| 18:07.18 | alterego | To be honest I've only done a manual install. |
| 18:07.40 | alterego | If you're compitent I'd suggest it. Anyhow gotta dash |
| 18:07.59 | NooBmonk3y | :P |
| 18:08.05 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar_ (~bigbrovar@83.229.6.19) |
| 18:08.36 | pavi | ok |
| 18:08.47 | pavi | I am only looking for some targets |
| 18:09.02 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (~fnoridans@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 18:09.33 | pavi | The wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation says "Execute the commands below on the FREMANTLE_ARMEL and FREMANTLE_X86 targets. " |
| 18:09.44 | pavi | and I don't have them to execute them |
| 18:10.16 | pavi | BTW I am using debian squeeze |
| 18:10.31 | *** join/#maemo frals (~frals@Maemo/community/contributor/frals) |
| 18:13.46 | *** join/#maemo hume (~quassel@84-217-63-151.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 18:15.40 | rtyler | DocScrutinizer: what were you cheering about :P |
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| 18:26.23 | NooBmonk3y | lcuk, ... what OS do you have on your multitude of devices? |
| 18:27.24 | lcuk | maemo meego winxp ubuntu |
| 18:27.50 | lcuk | NooBmonk3y, ^ |
| 18:28.00 | lcuk | my body has a virus atm |
| 18:28.06 | lcuk | and i cant seem to install norton on it |
| 18:28.10 | lcuk | damn flu |
| 18:28.46 | nidO | so when you say norton you mean cancer right? |
| 18:29.03 | NooBmonk3y | have to admit,(not using the lappies atm) missing windows for some things......... (any kind) .. ubuntu is fine, works well, just lacking the generic user satisfaction things like flash working well, adobe cs5 suite etc....... |
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| 18:31.06 | lcuk | NooBmonk3y, ubuntu drives me mad everytime i use it with a really annoying windowing bug thats existed in every version i tried |
| 18:31.14 | lcuk | will be glad to get rid of it |
| 18:31.55 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@60-171-15.connect.netcom.no) |
| 18:33.06 | NooBmonk3y | lol |
| 18:33.25 | NooBmonk3y | lcuk, great for the qt side of things, wish i had a pc that could handle it in a vm ;) |
| 18:33.30 | trumee | can i delete /lib/modules in my scratchbox? |
| 18:33.32 | nidO | tbh iv just always happily stuck with windows on my workstation |
| 18:33.41 | NooBmonk3y | anyway... healthcheck doesnt seem to be packaging right, again lol |
| 18:33.45 | trumee | without bricking my scratchbox? |
| 18:33.54 | NooBmonk3y | nidO, moved so qt worked correctly lol - and it is :P |
| 18:38.56 | BCMM_ | NooBmonk3y: did you just push a version of healthcheck consisting solely of a copyright notice? |
| 18:39.32 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 18:42.17 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@84.13.92.122) |
| 18:44.43 | BCMM_ | you see, healthcheck just updated, and now dpkg -L healthcheck lists only /usr/share/doc/healthcheck/copyright |
| 18:44.54 | BCMM_ | (which of course has been removed by that thing that removes docs) |
| 18:46.16 | MohammadAG | NooBmonk3y, did you get my last two messages? |
| 18:46.42 | *** join/#maemo qhubekela (~qhubekela@41.211.32.82) |
| 18:48.46 | NooBmonk3y | BCMM, possibly |
| 18:48.48 | NooBmonk3y | MohammadAG, no |
| 18:49.26 | NooBmonk3y | is trying to figure out packaging |
| 18:49.39 | trumee | Has anybody compiled a CUSTOM kernel here? |
| 18:49.43 | MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, read last night's logs |
| 18:49.43 | MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> $(APPNAME) is Healthcheck, debian packaging forbids capitals in the name |
| 18:49.43 | MohammadAG | * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). |
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| 18:50.06 | *** join/#maemo _rd_ (~rd@p57B48E4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:50.21 | MohammadAG | apt-get source kernel; cd kernel-2.6.28; MAKE="make -j 6" fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b |
| 18:50.24 | MohammadAG | it's that easy |
| 18:50.26 | NooBmonk3y | ohhhhhhhh |
| 18:50.37 | NooBmonk3y | wtf Mo?! |
| 18:50.44 | MohammadAG | you might want to change the 6 depending on the number of cores you have |
| 18:50.54 | NooBmonk3y | no idea what you are on |
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| 18:51.01 | NooBmonk3y | easier for me to just remove all caps? |
| 18:51.50 | BCMM_ | NooBmonk3y: i just checked on my desktop, healthcheck_2.9.4_armel.deb is 8.0kB |
| 18:51.57 | NooBmonk3y | ;) |
| 18:52.04 | NooBmonk3y | i'ma fixing, i'ma fixing |
| 18:52.10 | MohammadAG | NooBmonk3y, check debian/rules, install: |
| 18:52.32 | dany_ | hi all |
| 18:52.34 | BCMM_ | well, no it isn't. my smallest possible file is, but you get the point |
| 18:52.41 | BCMM_ | dany_: g'day |
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| 18:53.10 | MohammadAG | NooBmonk3y, cd builddir && $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(APPNAME) install |
| 18:53.15 | trumee | MohammadAG: i enabled NAT. did make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules_install. and copied the modules to N900. modprobe nf_conntrack returns "disagrees about version of symbol skb_copy_bits, Unknown symbol skb_copy_bits". |
| 18:53.18 | MohammadAG | Change $(APPNAME) to healthcheck |
| 18:53.21 | BCMM_ | finally. i've been using extras-devel all this time in the hope that stuff will break |
| 18:53.44 | MohammadAG | err |
| 18:53.48 | NooBmonk3y | MohammadAG, thats greek to me |
| 18:53.53 | MohammadAG | trumee, how did you enable NAT? |
| 18:53.56 | NooBmonk3y | just changing all references to lower case |
| 18:54.22 | MohammadAG | usually, you make rx51_defconfig, change the .config file, make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules, then strip the modules |
| 18:54.26 | BCMM_ | do i know how to read dates? has the following happened yet? 2010-12-03 17:57 UTC |
| 18:54.28 | MohammadAG | no! |
| 18:54.41 | MohammadAG | NooBmonk3y, |
| 18:54.45 | NooBmonk3y | too late |
| 18:54.48 | MohammadAG | get my source file from extras-devel |
| 18:54.51 | MohammadAG | :/ k |
| 18:54.56 | MohammadAG | fix your .desktop file then |
| 18:54.58 | BCMM_ | i thought not. what is it doing on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/healthcheck/2.9.4/ ? |
| 18:54.59 | NooBmonk3y | i am :) |
| 18:55.04 | MohammadAG | the binary will probably use the name healthcheck |
| 18:55.16 | BCMM_ | it just says date, not what it is the date of |
| 18:55.17 | trumee | MohammadAG: emabled Netfiler modules in the kernel. |
| 18:55.22 | MohammadAG | BCMM_, the build failed, wait it out! |
| 18:55.37 | MohammadAG | where is "the kernel" exactly |
| 18:55.50 | BCMM_ | MohammadAG: i'm not sure i understand... i was just wondering what it was supposed to be teh date of |
| 18:56.00 | trumee | MohammadAG: The kernel is in a scratchbox. |
| 18:56.15 | BCMM_ | given that it's next to an event which seems to have happened in the past |
| 18:56.25 | MohammadAG | well duh, I mean where did you enable the modules... |
| 18:57.10 | trumee | MohammadAG: i copied the modules to /home/user on N900 and did an insmod ./blah.ko |
| 18:57.46 | MohammadAG | sigh, we're not on the same page are we? |
| 18:57.53 | trumee | MohammadAG: seems not :( |
| 18:58.15 | trumee | MohammadAG: ah. you mean enabled modules in the kernel? |
| 18:59.18 | trumee | MohammadAG: i am a bit lost on what you are on about? I did a make menuconfig in my gentoo box to generate the .config. And copied the .config over to scratchbox. |
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| 19:00.34 | MohammadAG | trumee, that's wrong |
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| 19:00.57 | MohammadAG | trumee, make rx51_defconfig, edit the .config file, then go on with make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules |
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| 19:01.50 | trumee | MohammadAG: yes, i copied rx51_defconfig to .config. and edited .config outside scratchbox, copied it back to scratchbox and did make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules |
| 19:02.17 | trumee | MohammadAG: so yes i did start with rx51_defconfig, if that is what you mean. |
| 19:02.27 | BCMM_ | i talked to the libflac8 package maintainer. he said the issue was caused by having a non-nokia version of libsndfile, and now i have no idea who's bug the PA problem is |
| 19:02.45 | BCMM_ | (pulse links libsndfile, nokia's libsndfile doesn't link libflac) |
| 19:03.42 | trumee | MohammadAG: what i am wondering about is that, do all the network modules need to be recompiled after NAT support? |
| 19:03.49 | MohammadAG | why all that? |
| 19:04.01 | MohammadAG | do everything in scratchbox |
| 19:04.24 | trumee | MohammadAG: ok, i will try again. i was under the impression that make menuconfig doesnt work in scratchbox |
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| 19:05.03 | MohammadAG | don't do menuconfig! |
| 19:05.15 | MohammadAG | just make rx51_defconfig, it will generate a .config |
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| 19:06.48 | NooBmonk3y | MohammadAG, you are becoming very authorative ;) hehe |
| 19:07.25 | trumee | MohammadAG: seems it is possible to use make menuconfig , http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Compiling_Internal_Kernel_Modules |
| 19:08.33 | MohammadAG | as you wish |
| 19:08.39 | MohammadAG | you'll just make it harder on yourself |
| 19:09.40 | trumee | MohammadAG: problem is i dont know which modules to enable without looking at menuconfig :) |
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| 19:14.03 | trumee | MohammadAG: do i use this after compilation? for FILE in $(find . -name '*.ko'); do strip --remove-section=.comment --remove-section=.note --strip-unneeded $FILE; done |
| 19:14.21 | MohammadAG | yeah, see debian/rules |
| 19:17.52 | trumee | MohammadAG: then make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules_install, and copy /lib/modules to N900:/home/users/kernel |
| 19:19.15 | MohammadAG | yeah, or /lib/modules and depmod -a |
| 19:21.27 | trumee | MohammadAG: insmod kernel/net/netfilter/x_tables.ko returns "x_tables: no symbol version for struct_module" |
| 19:23.06 | trumee | MohammadAG: did i bugger something up? |
| 19:27.55 | trumee | MohammadAG: ok, i am not going to do any menuconfig. Will recompile the kernel again, and will NOT edit .config. Will copy the modules over. Hopefully, the modules will remain virgin. |
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| 19:35.21 | RST38h | Glow-in-the-Dark Uranium Soap |
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| 19:38.34 | trumee | MohammadAG: nope, didnt help. Copied the virgin modules over to /home/user/kernel, insmod net/netfilter/x_tables.ko returns "x_tables: no symbol version for struct_module" |
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| 19:39.19 | MohammadAG | i'll be back at night, probably midnight :P |
| 19:39.27 | MohammadAG | friends over |
| 19:39.35 | trumee | MohammadAG: no worries. enjoy! |
| 19:39.50 | MohammadAG | :D |
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| 19:41.52 | johnsq | Hi |
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| 19:54.03 | crashanddie_ | You guys remember the schedular patch in the Linux kernel? |
| 19:54.16 | crashanddie_ | s/lar/ler/ |
| 19:54.55 | crashanddie_ | It bumped our VoIP/SIP server to go from 600 simultaneous calls to 1000. |
| 19:55.56 | kerio | bfs as opposed to cfs^ |
| 19:55.57 | kerio | ? |
| 19:56.16 | crashanddie_ | was that for me? |
| 19:56.32 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 19:57.49 | kerio | yeah |
| 19:58.16 | crashanddie_ | then I have no idea what you're talking about :P |
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| 20:01.29 | fnordianslip | anyone know how i can add the QT target in QT Creator 2.0.1 on my Mac to target QT4.7 as shipped with PR1.3? It seems that the Nokia QT SDK doesn't support Mac. I thought the latest madde installer would update the QT target but it doesn't seem to have done so. |
| 20:03.43 | trumee | nicolai: was that patch for Calendar widget useful? |
| 20:04.27 | trumee | javispedro: i have picked up the kernel compilation from last night. |
| 20:04.55 | javispedro | and? :) |
| 20:05.04 | nicolai | trumee: just started to look at it. |
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| 20:05.34 | trumee | javispedro: still on it. compile will finish soon. |
| 20:05.43 | javispedro | ah. |
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| 20:06.29 | trumee | javispedro: had some problem with "no symbol version for struct_module". but a full kernel compile i think fixes it. |
| 20:06.38 | trumee | nicolai: cool |
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| 20:09.53 | trumee | javispedro: first casualty. insmod x_tables, returns "x_tables: disagrees about version of symbol seq_open_net" |
| 20:11.49 | javispedro | so, unless you messed up the kernel version you're building vs what's on the device, this is one module you will need to update the kernel image (or some other module) to use |
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| 20:13.37 | trumee | javispedro: this is diff between new .config and stock, http://pastebin.com/dE6C4fYH |
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| 20:13.51 | ioan | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:14.31 | trumee | javispedro: notice on line 46 i have CONFIG_NF_NAT_NEEDED=y, so guess it is not a module? |
| 20:14.55 | andre__ | ioan: dpkg -l packagename |
| 20:15.40 | trumee | javispedro: if i actually flash this kernel and the device doesnt boot, is it possible to flash the stock kernel without loosing my rootfs? |
| 20:15.55 | NooBmonk3y | hmmm is there a template to file/folder structure when building apps? :) |
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| 20:16.30 | ioan | thank andre__ |
| 20:16.33 | ioan | s |
| 20:16.48 | javispedro | trumee: yes. in fact, you're able to boot a kernel without flashing it. issue here is that kernel is incompatible with existing modules.... |
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| 20:17.18 | javispedro | the solution would be to change version, add new set of modules, etc. but you end up replicating the power kernel. |
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| 20:17.58 | trumee | javispedro: The whole reeason i am not installing power kernel is because, i had very poor pulseaudio performance with it. |
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| 20:18.14 | trumee | javispedro: i want to be close to the stock kernel with NAT support. |
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| 20:18.41 | trumee | javispedro: how do i flash the stock kernel, if the device fails to boot-up? |
| 20:19.12 | javispedro | the device WILL fail to boot up because the kernel you made might be incompatible with the modules that are on the rootfs. |
| 20:19.24 | trumee | javispedro: ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f will probably overwrite rootfs. |
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| 20:19.49 | trumee | javispedro: i plan to create my own version and install all the modules and flash my own kernel |
| 20:20.03 | javispedro | so, no way back. |
| 20:20.09 | javispedro | backup and cross finger. |
| 20:20.15 | trumee | javispedro: i guess with that there will not be any module incompatbility. |
| 20:20.44 | trumee | uh oh! doesnt sound good then . you mean i can flash stock over my own kernel without overwriting rootfs? |
| 20:20.54 | trumee | *cant |
| 20:21.10 | javispedro | you can.... but if you replaced the modules... |
| 20:21.28 | trumee | javispedro: ah! i see what you mean. |
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| 20:21.47 | javispedro | that's what I say that ideally you should bump the version number, install modules in a different dir... etc etc |
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| 20:21.56 | trumee | flashing will only write the image but will not install the modules. |
| 20:21.56 | javispedro | there was a problem with that but I can't recall it atm |
| 20:22.56 | trumee | javispedro: why does power kernel use their own flasher? |
| 20:22.56 | javispedro | they don't, they just use the ondevice afaik? |
| 20:22.56 | NooBmonk3y | MohammadAG, :) |
| 20:23.03 | NooBmonk3y | have updated git, still no packaging luck |
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| 20:23.52 | trumee | javispedro: what is kernel-power-flasher? |
| 20:24.21 | javispedro | probably what calls flasher on the postinst |
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| 20:26.11 | trumee | javispedro: can i simulate kernel-power behaviour but use my own kernel? |
| 20:26.19 | javispedro | very probably |
| 20:26.32 | javispedro | also, another thing to try |
| 20:26.43 | javispedro | for reference, to load a kernel without flashing it |
| 20:26.54 | javispedro | ./flasher-3.5 -l -k vmlinux -b |
| 20:27.08 | javispedro | so |
| 20:27.26 | javispedro | another thing to try would be to load your kernel; maybe the only incompatible modules are netfilter ones |
| 20:27.32 | javispedro | so it might boot. |
| 20:28.05 | trumee | javispedro: what will the above command do? |
| 20:28.13 | javispedro | trumee: read flasher -h ;) |
| 20:28.22 | javispedro | -Load, -Kernel, -Boot |
| 20:28.39 | javispedro | boot it without flashing |
| 20:28.41 | trumee | javispedro: i see it here as well, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Testing_kernel |
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| 20:29.36 | trumee | javispedro: so if it doesnt flash then how does it bootup. and i should leave the /lib/modules as it is. |
| 20:30.14 | javispedro | a) by booting it b) yes, that is what I was saying would be interesting to test |
| 20:31.11 | trumee | javispedro: do i need to shutdown the device before running that flasher command? |
| 20:31.25 | javispedro | yes... |
| 20:31.57 | trumee | i havent actually copied the new modules into /lib/modules, they are still sitting /home/user/kernel on the device. |
| 20:32.36 | trumee | i didnt want to mess-up the stock modules directory, so was doing insmod from my own folder. |
| 20:33.12 | trumee | shall i leave the stock modules as it is and boot up with the new kernel? |
| 20:36.53 | trumee | that was quick, 100% (1706 of 1706 kB, avg. 23706 kB/s) |
| 20:37.16 | javispedro | that's what I'm saying |
| 20:37.27 | javispedro | ensure everything works, though |
| 20:37.33 | trumee | javispedro: the dots appeared briefly, but now only the charging led is glowing. do i need to switch it off? |
| 20:37.44 | javispedro | "on" you mean? |
| 20:38.15 | trumee | javispedro: after the kernel flash, it is now only showing the charging led. The lcd is off. |
| 20:38.35 | trumee | javispedro: so i guess the device is not turned on. |
| 20:38.49 | trumee | javispedro: does it mean the bootup failed? |
| 20:38.51 | javispedro | so, switch it on.... |
| 20:39.13 | javispedro | launch flasher again before |
| 20:39.14 | trumee | javispedro: ok, switching it on. |
| 20:39.42 | trumee | crap. missed the flasher bit. going to try this again. |
| 20:41.00 | trumee | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:42.02 | javispedro | mostly. if you have to switch it on/off, launch flasher again |
| 20:42.33 | trumee | javispedro: nope doesnt boot up. It shows the dots flashing for a moment, then everything goes dark. |
| 20:43.14 | trumee | so that means the stock /lib/modules are not compatible with my kernel. |
| 20:43.44 | javispedro | no |
| 20:43.55 | javispedro | run flasher again, hit the power button, wait |
| 20:44.27 | javispedro | if it fails to boot again there was a way to force it to skip actdead but I don'tremember that either. |
| 20:44.30 | javispedro | getting tired :) |
| 20:45.46 | trumee | ok, the dots are going on for a longer time (this time). |
| 20:46.31 | trumee | javispedro: sorry for all this trouble :) |
| 20:47.38 | trumee | javispedro: i hope i have not corrupted the rootfs, since i switched it off midway when it was acting dead. At the moment it is showing the dots. |
| 20:50.05 | javispedro | still? |
| 20:50.29 | javispedro | then it probably failed, unplug usb, remove battery, start normally |
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| 20:50.47 | trumee | javispedro: yes, it is still showing the dots. |
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| 20:52.19 | trumee | javispedro: ok, i used the power button to switch it off and switch it on again. Now it has booted up using the stock kernel. |
| 20:52.54 | javispedro | so there you have the answer: modules are not compatible :) |
| 20:53.50 | trumee | javispedro: so, the only approach left is to go the kernel-power way. |
| 20:53.56 | javispedro | yep |
| 20:54.08 | javispedro | or research why they're incompatible =) |
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| 20:54.53 | trumee | javispedro: guess, easier option will be not to do the research :p |
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| 20:56.30 | trumee | javispedro: i suppose, i will have to back-up the rootfs before i flash my own kernel incase boot fails. |
| 20:57.00 | javispedro | yes. |
| 20:57.30 | trumee | javispedro: if there was a dynamic way to change the symlink /lib/modules/current, that would have been awesome. |
| 20:57.50 | javispedro | that rings a bell |
| 20:57.58 | javispedro | I think it was related to the problem I was mentioning earlier |
| 20:58.28 | trumee | javispedro: i could have booted up my kernel and if it failed, on flashing stock /lib/modules/current symlink would point to the stock modules. |
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| 21:54.42 | pupnik | http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2010/12/wow-that-was-quick-obama-tsa-deploys-scanner-checkpoints-at-bus-stations-video/ [ Wow! That Was Quick⦠Obama Administration Deploys Scanner Checkpoints at Bus Stations (Video) ] |
| 21:54.49 | Venemo | hi guys :) |
| 21:55.55 | Venemo | I attended an event today which was called "Nokia developers' club", and it was quite nice :) |
| 21:56.28 | pupnik | what's that |
| 21:57.00 | Venemo | well there was a presentation about Qt and related stuff |
| 21:57.19 | Venemo | plus a free pizza for everyone, and a cup with a Nokia logo |
| 21:58.14 | Venemo | and also, people could talk and tell their opinions about Qt Creator and Nokia development in general |
| 22:00.18 | lcuk | Venemo, cool |
| 22:00.48 | Venemo | Nokia seemed pretty desperate to get developers to develop for their devices |
| 22:01.09 | crashanddie_ | Venemo: did you ask them why Nokia seemed like they were looking like the only company in the 21st century (apart from IBM) that seemed like they were drowning in the own abyss of their mismanagement? |
| 22:01.43 | chx | Yeah. It's frustrating. You have the N900 which is the most awesome hackerphone evah and it's just... unfinished. |
| 22:01.53 | crashanddie_ | woah, three similes in one sentence. |
| 22:02.01 | Venemo | crashanddie_: well the regional marketing director was there, but I didn't think he could meaninfully answer this question... so I didn't ask |
| 22:02.11 | lcuk | chx then hack it. |
| 22:02.18 | Venemo | chx: if it was finished, it wouldn't be a hacker phone, would it? |
| 22:02.25 | chx | Well |
| 22:02.26 | crashanddie_ | sure it would |
| 22:02.29 | lcuk | community ssu is being built so it can be continued |
| 22:02.37 | chx | there are problems far beyond my abilities to fix |
| 22:02.57 | chx | like the zooming being per app instead of being part of the ... X server? whatever handles the display |
| 22:03.03 | crashanddie_ | but enabling people to use it as a real corporate device, with a proper calendar, responsive UI, and email that actually functionned wouldn't have been too much to ask for I reckon |
| 22:03.08 | chx | same with portrait |
| 22:03.11 | *** join/#maemo mtnbkr (~mtnbkr@75-150-91-17-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:03.20 | lcuk | zooming? |
| 22:03.27 | Venemo | there was also a prototype E7 and a C7 |
| 22:03.37 | crashanddie_ | Venemo: how is the E7 looking? |
| 22:03.44 | lcuk | heads off |
| 22:03.47 | lcuk | gnite fellas \o |
| 22:03.50 | crashanddie_ | lcuk: later, night |
| 22:03.59 | Venemo | gnight lcuk :) |
| 22:04.08 | Venemo | crashanddie_: it was very solid |
| 22:04.13 | chx | lcuk: later, night, you can't zoom in most apps unless the app is built for it , most painful with irc lcients. i might be wrong. |
| 22:04.44 | Venemo | crashanddie_: the keyboard snaps out like on the N97, but it feels a lot more stable |
| 22:04.53 | Venemo | crashanddie_: the screen feels big |
| 22:05.18 | Venemo | crashanddie_: the OS is standard Symbian^3, nothing fancy (and I didn't look at it too much) |
| 22:05.31 | crashanddie_ | apparently the UI is a bit laggy to touch responses |
| 22:05.47 | Venemo | crashanddie_: no, it was fine |
| 22:05.49 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface2 (~user5330@32.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:05.54 | Venemo | crashanddie_: afaic |
| 22:05.59 | Venemo | crashanddie_: afaict |
| 22:06.21 | Venemo | crashanddie_: also, it has a 4-row qwerty which is nice |
| 22:06.38 | lcuk | chx, zoom? |
| 22:06.46 | Venemo | crashanddie_: and multi-touch too |
| 22:06.51 | crashanddie_ | yeah, keyboard seems awesome |
| 22:07.01 | crashanddie_ | not sure about HDMI-out |
| 22:07.04 | chx | lcuk: yes, zoom. You know, too small fonts.... |
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| 22:07.26 | lcuk | chx, ahh cos all apps zoom in from dashboard |
| 22:07.33 | chx | lcuk: huh? |
| 22:07.39 | crashanddie_ | lcuk: are you on weed? |
| 22:07.45 | Venemo | the keyboard is tilted in the same angle as the N900's small stand tilts the N900's screen |
| 22:07.46 | lcuk | no crashanddie_ |
| 22:07.49 | chx | ah yes but you cant zoom in once in the app |
| 22:07.59 | lcuk | chx understood now |
| 22:08.02 | chx | the E7 is *Symbian* |
| 22:08.04 | lcuk | you mean like browser/image zooming |
| 22:08.09 | lcuk | understands now |
| 22:08.10 | chx | it's dead before it's born |
| 22:08.28 | chx | come on, bury the dead horse, bring on Meego. |
| 22:08.31 | crashanddie_ | chx: not really, it might be nice for business |
| 22:08.57 | crashanddie_ | chx: I'm still a hardcore blackberry user for business, but Nokia e-series have always appealed to me |
| 22:08.59 | Venemo | chx, I don't think so. Symbian is great for a certain target audience. also note that MeeGo is nowhere near ready yet |
| 22:09.23 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 22:09.29 | lcuk | chx, some of us are already in meego :) |
| 22:09.30 | chx | and? Nokia has a proven track record of releasing unready !#@$# devices |
| 22:09.54 | chx | Also note that I have a Nokia E70 and an E51 |
| 22:10.02 | Venemo | lcuk, do you mean the netbook version? |
| 22:10.41 | chx | [14:09] <lcuk> you mean like browser/image zooming <= i mean like that yeah but TEXT is more important than images. It's ... braindead. why is that not a feature of the display? |
| 22:11.27 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@192.100.124.156) |
| 22:11.31 | chx | Also, if Nokia had brains which it clearly does not then it would not have abandoned the E70-like devies |
| 22:11.35 | lcuk | chx i never noticed a problem with the ui needing it |
| 22:11.46 | chx | lcuk: no? hm, and how do you irc on it? |
| 22:11.46 | lcuk | but for books and editing, sure - but those seem to have fnt adjust |
| 22:11.58 | lcuk | chx xchat has a font size option.. |
| 22:12.09 | Venemo | oh, and almost forgot, there also was a QML demo, which was pretty nice |
| 22:12.17 | chx | I am getting to the point where I want to sit down and write a goddamn IRC client :( |
| 22:12.42 | SpeedEvil | finds xchat OK. |
| 22:12.43 | Venemo | chx, which one do you use currently? |
| 22:13.02 | nomis | chx: writing an IRC client is a rite of passage. |
| 22:13.13 | lcuk | chx, been there, done that :P http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_141600._maemo.scr.png |
| 22:13.33 | lcuk | was going anyway |
| 22:13.42 | nomis | chx: (the milder form is writing an IRC bot) |
| 22:14.04 | chx | lcuk: looks pretty where is it? |
| 22:14.55 | lcuk | chx, very unstable old stuff (note the datestamp) i think its on my git repo |
| 22:15.25 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 22:16.45 | javispedro | chx: write a java vm instead. |
| 22:17.49 | Venemo | chx: I found Communi a rather usable IRC client for Maemo. it is a bit unfinished (it's in -devel), but it is easier to use than XChat |
| 22:21.48 | *** join/#maemo plq (~plq@88.249.173.198) |
| 22:23.14 | chx | Communi? |
| 22:23.14 | chx | what's that? |
| 22:23.14 | Venemo | an IRC client |
| 22:23.15 | chx | i thought so |
| 22:23.20 | chx | http://maemo.org/packages/view/communi/ interesting! |
| 22:23.30 | BCMM | does it do kinetic scroll? |
| 22:23.31 | chx | no fancy++ |
| 22:23.48 | *** join/#maemo HanttaW (~HanttaW@as86-79.tontut.fi) |
| 22:23.51 | BCMM | no fancy++ |
| 22:23.55 | BCMM | indeed |
| 22:24.03 | Venemo | BCMM: yes |
| 22:24.03 | chx | is it normal that the battery barely stays alive for a day? |
| 22:24.16 | BCMM | chx: depends on what you were doing |
| 22:24.16 | Venemo | chx, mine does too |
| 22:24.17 | toresbe | yeah, in active use. |
| 22:24.27 | javispedro | with x-chat on, possibly. |
| 22:24.30 | toresbe | I just use SSH, screen and irssi. Killer combo. |
| 22:24.30 | BCMM | i will have a look; last time i looked there was just irssi and xchat |
| 22:24.58 | Venemo | BCMM: the ui has a few small glitches, but overall it is usable IMO |
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| 22:25.39 | BCMM | thing about "nothing fancy", is that one wants no fancy features except what you use |
| 22:25.57 | BCMM | for example, i'm thinking it's nice that it's lightweight, but i hope it supports server passwords |
| 22:26.10 | Venemo | BCMM: it does yes |
| 22:26.11 | *** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (~digitalst@184-96-129-226.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 22:26.47 | SpeedEvil | xchat on logged into wifi lasts ~40h for me |
| 22:26.50 | *** part/#maemo digitalstimulus (~digitalst@184-96-129-226.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 22:26.58 | SpeedEvil | 12h on 2g, and 6 on 3 |
| 22:28.17 | HanttaW | Hi people. Is this right place for some questions about maemo/linux memory usage. Especially hildon-home/desktop services. |
| 22:28.41 | Venemo | HanttaW: ask, and the guys here'll try to answer :) |
| 22:29.16 | SpeedEvil | First get that |
| 22:29.20 | SpeedEvil | http://www.selenic.com/smem/ |
| 22:29.23 | SpeedEvil | RSS is a lie |
| 22:29.29 | SpeedEvil | (the python script works just fine) |
| 22:29.34 | SpeedEvil | (on the device) |
| 22:30.05 | HanttaW | Nice :) Okey here is current situation from htop: http://pastebin.com/2ygxmFdp sorted by virtual column...and doesn´t look good :| |
| 22:30.29 | SpeedEvil | virt is almost completely irrelevant |
| 22:30.40 | HanttaW | hmmm |
| 22:31.11 | SpeedEvil | you have 2G (? or is it 4) of virt address space |
| 22:31.25 | BCMM | if it goes flat fast on wifi, your router sucks |
| 22:31.26 | HanttaW | I have noticed that it keeps growing and growing. Pretty soon my device starts lag little. First app from where I notice it is camera..it just starts stalling. |
| 22:31.36 | *** join/#maemo benh_ (~benh@nat/ibm/x-twskyioqdilifvof) |
| 22:31.36 | BCMM | see if it can be configured to suck less, with respect to power-saving |
| 22:32.35 | SpeedEvil | http://troydhanson.wordpress.com/2010/07/18/virtual-memory-in-a-nutshell/ looks useful |
| 22:32.45 | HanttaW | And I have stuff installed from devel & testing so in a way this is something that I´m expecting =) But trying to understand and learn. |
| 22:32.54 | SpeedEvil | HanttaW: yes - you're probably more caring about PSS and USS |
| 22:33.08 | SpeedEvil | HanttaW: though some things can use CPU too, and make stuff slug |
| 22:34.17 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: 3G |
| 22:34.19 | javispedro | er.. |
| 22:34.28 | HanttaW | Dear god how many different memory there is. My head feels dizzy. |
| 22:34.33 | javispedro | 3 GiB of user address space |
| 22:34.44 | SpeedEvil | HanttaW: yes. It's annoyingly complex. |
| 22:35.00 | SpeedEvil | HanttaW: And you ideally need to understand it if you're trying to work out why it's slugging |
| 22:35.31 | toresbe | It's fun to carry on a conversation at work, then continue it on the subway home, and then keep it going in the elevator going into the apartment... |
| 22:35.50 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@186.212.100.161) |
| 22:35.52 | javispedro | you could do that with the mobile phone too. |
| 22:35.59 | toresbe | Well, not on IRC. |
| 22:36.03 | toresbe | ssh/screen/irssi is love. :) |
| 22:36.07 | HanttaW | SpeedEvil: Yep. I know. On windows I have just used processexplorer to hunt down memory leaks and it is pretty easy. |
| 22:36.09 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (~quassel@2001:470:b0ea:1:4687:fcff:fe72:d20a) |
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| 22:36.27 | *** join/#maemo BCMM_ (~communi@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 22:36.34 | javispedro | Well, Windows has the same "memory types" so the question is "what does process explorer show?" |
| 22:36.56 | SpeedEvil | rss growth is not meaningless generally |
| 22:37.03 | Venemo | good night guys, I'm leaving |
| 22:37.05 | Venemo | have fun |
| 22:37.08 | javispedro | gnite Venemo |
| 22:37.14 | Venemo | :) |
| 22:37.19 | SpeedEvil | if a process is growing, and other processes are not, then that's a good inidcation that a closer look at it may be warranted. |
| 22:38.16 | BCMM_ | hmm, this client seems to have no keyboard tabbing or fullscreen |
| 22:38.57 | HanttaW | SpeedEvil: Currently only thing what I have noticed that is growing is virtual size of those top processes but I need more data. |
| 22:39.34 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.78.32.243) |
| 22:39.45 | BCMM_ | nor a way to copy and paste |
| 22:40.11 | jacekowski | virtual size is just virtual |
| 22:40.23 | BCMM_ | is that thing the browser uses to enable the cursor available to other applications? |
| 22:40.24 | jacekowski | and you don't have to worry about it too much |
| 22:40.26 | HanttaW | btw. How I can set my putty session to N900 send keepalives. Currently it´s disconnecting after certain amount of idle. |
| 22:40.34 | chem|st | re |
| 22:40.48 | jacekowski | HanttaW: it's server thing |
| 22:41.10 | jacekowski | HanttaW: to send "pings" every so often |
| 22:41.20 | jacekowski | HanttaW: you would have to rebuild openssh for n900 to support it |
| 22:41.31 | HanttaW | sigh |
| 22:41.46 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.237) |
| 22:42.42 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.237) |
| 22:43.00 | HanttaW | I probably just need more memory debug data, but virtual size increasing is just result of something other part of memory growing. |
| 22:44.55 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.237) |
| 22:45.56 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.151.237) |
| 22:46.51 | jacekowski | it may mean that you are running something like that |
| 22:47.16 | jacekowski | jacekowski:~# pastebinit test.c |
| 22:47.16 | jacekowski | http://pastebin.com/MvFzXdLk |
| 22:48.53 | BCMM | jacekowski: surely you can do that in teh ssh config file? |
| 22:50.26 | chx | Communi is awesome. |
| 22:51.07 | chx | now, i will need to line my backpack with a battery :) |
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| 22:52.51 | jacekowski | BCMM: no if it's not compiled in |
| 22:52.52 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 22:53.00 | jacekowski | BCMM: and last time i checked it's not compiled in in any distro |
| 22:55.46 | BCMM | jacekowski: are we talking about adding "KeepAlive yes" to /etc/ssh/sshd_config, or something else? |
| 22:55.58 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:56.06 | jacekowski | but that's just going to fail i |
| 22:56.11 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@201-93-213-76.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 22:56.36 | jacekowski | and there is one more thing |
| 23:01.38 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 23:02.47 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 23:07.54 | HanttaW | So it seems that I´m going to need http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/sp-smaps-measure and time to read & learn some memory usage stuff. |
| 23:09.11 | HanttaW | one more question and then I´m off to bed. Any neat dpkg commands that lists only installed packages that are dependend on python. |
| 23:09.16 | *** join/#maemo fladnag (~fladnag@dslb-084-060-147-120.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:10.07 | ShadowJK | jacekowski, putty itself can send keepalives too |
| 23:11.03 | ShadowJK | vaguely remembers it in options somewhere |
| 23:11.04 | *** join/#maemo bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 23:12.24 | chem|st | HanttaW: that should be listed within python |
| 23:12.46 | ShadowJK | HanttaW, btw I'd start with disabling every widget and similar things on desktop, basically empty start.. reboot for clean start, not vsz, use it for awhile, note vsz. Add a single widget, reboot for clean start, note vsz, use it for awhile, note vsz.. |
| 23:13.12 | fladnag | TRACKERD SUCKS |
| 23:13.14 | ShadowJK | apt-cache rdepends python |
| 23:13.15 | HanttaW | I´m just reading some bug reports and looks like that at least "Eero Tamminen" is somewhat recommending to keep away from apps that are dependend on python and are constantly running. |
| 23:13.24 | fladnag | !!! |
| 23:14.10 | ShadowJK | but that lists everything, also stuff not installed :/ |
| 23:14.11 | HanttaW | Currently I have home calendar widget and media player widget and two desktops with just app shortcuts and bookmarks. |
| 23:15.28 | HanttaW | I think it was this bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8723 |
| 23:15.29 | povbot | Bug 8723: Items in hildon-home can be non-responsive for several minutes |
| 23:16.19 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 23:16.31 | ShadowJK | I noticed less memory use after removing the python based sleeper widget, and that was the only python widget I had iirc.. |
| 23:16.32 | nomis | chem|st: I hacked a small tool to dump them: These are the shutdown codes from the open source tvbgone-kit in human readable form: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/tvbgone-codes.txt |
| 23:17.05 | nomis | chem|st: (untested, but look somewhat plausible) |
| 23:17.12 | fladnag | JEAH i had some baad "longtime"systemhangs too |
| 23:17.18 | HanttaW | Okey. I need to go bed, but thanks for all the tips. I´m trying to find out some time to dig deeper on this. |
| 23:17.41 | fladnag | (n900) |
| 23:17.46 | fladnag | ... |
| 23:18.02 | HanttaW | Good night |
| 23:18.06 | *** part/#maemo HanttaW (~HanttaW@as86-79.tontut.fi) |
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| 23:23.34 | javispedro | ShadowJK: I kinda remember some weird interactions with long running python applications wasting memory, not due to any leak but the way the python GC works |
| 23:24.53 | javispedro | basically for the same reason most java applications eventually fill up to -Xmx size |
| 23:25.54 | *** join/#maemo edisson (~edisson@189.2.128.130) |
| 23:29.18 | jacekowski | in normal languages world it's called memory leak |
| 23:30.00 | ds3 | isn't it call garbage collection incompetance in java? ;) |
| 23:31.30 | javispedro | jacekowski: not exactly |
| 23:33.03 | BugBlue | if java had true garbage collection it would delete itself |
| 23:35.56 | pupnik | hahah |
| 23:38.16 | pupnik | javispedro: hey ever use this? enum omapfb_color_format { OMAPFB_COLOR_CLUT_8BPP |
| 23:38.35 | javispedro | nope |
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| 23:39.19 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-19-163.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 23:39.20 | pupnik | could speed up dosbox |
| 23:39.55 | pupnik | you know, vga being 8-bit with a clut |
| 23:40.06 | pupnik | could speed it up a lot, couldn't it |
| 23:40.10 | javispedro | not sure |
| 23:40.22 | javispedro | because I don't know what that is doing |
| 23:40.32 | javispedro | (behind the scenes) |
| 23:41.11 | pupnik | i think it works like this |
| 23:41.37 | pupnik | VGA(8-bit)->24bitRGB->16bitFramebuffer |
| 23:41.48 | pupnik | that would be replaced with |
| 23:41.58 | pupnik | VGA(8-bit)->display |
| 23:43.32 | javispedro | hmm |
| 23:43.46 | javispedro | you can trigger that by setting 8 bpp in the ioctl device |
| 23:43.49 | javispedro | err |
| 23:43.54 | javispedro | s/ioctl/fbdev |
| 23:44.09 | nox- | i guess the q is does the display hw support that mode... |
| 23:44.36 | javispedro | I do not think the display has |
| 23:44.51 | pupnik | ahh |
| 23:44.53 | javispedro | because you're not altering the output format, rather one of the plane's format |
| 23:45.05 | pupnik | if the lcd controller doesn't support it, then there's no point |
| 23:45.12 | pupnik | i wonder if X11 even supports 8-bit anymore |
| 23:45.20 | javispedro | it doe |
| 23:45.21 | javispedro | s |
| 23:46.00 | javispedro | I think there's a large chance the controller supports it |
| 23:46.02 | nox- | i had to test that some time ago trying out some apple //e emulator... |
| 23:46.12 | nox- | (not on n900 tho :) |
| 23:46.48 | javispedro | nox-: on stock n900 there's a compositor, and the compositor will try to send whatever you have to opengl |
| 23:46.53 | pupnik | xdpyinfo lists 8-bit as depth 8, bits_per_pixel 8, scanline_pad 32 |
| 23:47.03 | pupnik | on my notebook |
| 23:47.06 | javispedro | nox-: and ofc it will usually do the wrong thing regarding palettes |
| 23:47.08 | pupnik | yea |
| 23:47.16 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.1.135) |
| 23:47.18 | nox- | ok |
| 23:47.32 | pupnik | i want to directly map dosbox vga memory to the framebuffer |
| 23:47.44 | javispedro | pupnik: it's an interesing test. |
| 23:47.45 | *** join/#maemo dirtyrice88 (~dirtyrice@75.76.93.77) |
| 23:47.55 | javispedro | actually I've done something like that recently.. but true color... |
| 23:53.32 | pupnik | hmm |
| 23:56.16 | javispedro | also: x11 paletted full screen application? |
| 23:58.46 | fladnag | Sorry but what doyouthink how many of the 420 people inthis room have a n900 ? |
| 23:59.10 | Gh0sty | most have 2? :p |
| 23:59.53 | fladnag | Okey :) |
