| 00:00.31 | *** join/#maemo travik (~travis@193.239.245.242) |
| 00:00.33 | comawhite | is there any good maemo applications? |
| 00:00.41 | comawhite | well examples/demos |
| 00:01.24 | Choom | check the wiki, there's a link to a bunch of sample code |
| 00:03.31 | pupnik | 01:02 <pupnik> i'm so close to .. getting in trouble |
| 00:03.34 | pupnik | 01:02 <pupnik> and i don't know what i'm doing |
| 00:03.37 | pupnik | 01:02 <pupnik> it's wonderful |
| 00:03.39 | pupnik | 01:03 <pupnik> nothing else is life |
| 00:05.52 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-203-232.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 00:05.54 | *** join/#maemo Handyspacko (bc6cd342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.108.211.66) |
| 00:06.03 | Handyspacko | Hello Guys |
| 00:06.53 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.12.106) |
| 00:07.21 | Handyspacko | is it possible, to boot with uboot with came with the titan kernel v46, boot the original kernel and the titan kernel v46???? |
| 00:07.47 | Handyspacko | How to? |
| 00:09.37 | Handyspacko | öhmm nobody? |
| 00:10.11 | travik | hmm, i thought v46 no longer had uboot? |
| 00:10.25 | Handyspacko | ok than v45? |
| 00:10.44 | travik | i believe it is possible, not sure how myself |
| 00:11.10 | Handyspacko | because i had glitches wile i do video recording but i need titan kernel for aircrack or overclocking and co |
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| 00:11.46 | comawhite | blah all the example apps used gtk (eww) |
| 00:11.50 | comawhite | use* |
| 00:11.57 | Handyspacko | mhh any idea how to serach for? Search WORDS? |
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| 00:12.25 | travik | try searching uboot power kernel |
| 00:12.32 | travik | on tmo |
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| 00:13.05 | pupnik | lol |
| 00:14.41 | travik | sounds like it might be easier with multiboot |
| 00:14.51 | travik | if you just want to switch between default and power kernel |
| 00:15.52 | Handyspacko | ok how do i do it maybe tutorial or how to? |
| 00:16.15 | Handyspacko | yes this is what i want to do |
| 00:16.39 | Handyspacko | didint found what i whant at google |
| 00:16.56 | travik | im no expert in these matters |
| 00:17.01 | travik | never done it myself |
| 00:17.06 | travik | but based on http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=877983&postcount=90 |
| 00:17.16 | Handyspacko | can you please help me search for? |
| 00:17.19 | Handyspacko | ok |
| 00:17.26 | travik | it sounds like installing multiboot |
| 00:17.32 | travik | either directly or via nitdroid |
| 00:17.41 | travik | enables option to boot default or power kernel |
| 00:18.28 | Handyspacko | ahh ok i try it |
| 00:18.58 | travik | ok, might want to do a bit more reading tho first |
| 00:19.00 | pupnik | you know what happened to the guy who wanted to launch satellites into orbit |
| 00:19.03 | travik | at talk.maemo.org |
| 00:19.04 | pupnik | with a cannon |
| 00:19.12 | Handyspacko | hahaaha |
| 00:19.20 | pupnik | bunch of snipped dick kikes murdered him |
| 00:19.24 | DocScrutinizer | HELL! wonder when somebody is going to ask me to take the duty to lead a maemo/meego project |
| 00:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | probably I'm too much a noob about such involved topic |
| 00:19.59 | Handyspacko | sry it is sooo much work and soo less of time sorry but this is the way you guys rock |
| 00:20.23 | pupnik | don't innovate Handyspacko |
| 00:20.26 | pupnik | you might get murdered |
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| 00:22.39 | DocScrutinizer | wanders off to think about cedent infrastructure for alterego to sell his app |
| 00:22.50 | *** part/#maemo travik (~travis@193.239.245.242) |
| 00:22.54 | DocScrutinizer | decent even |
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| 00:35.21 | pupnik | 444 nicks |
| 00:35.28 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 00:36.07 | DocScrutinizer | lemme cure that |
| 00:36.33 | pupnik | how many years ... YEARS |
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| 00:36.44 | pupnik | has it been since we heard from Milhouse |
| 00:37.01 | pupnik | not to mention these hundreds of finns who just lurk and lurk and lurk |
| 00:37.39 | pupnik | what are they |
| 00:37.42 | pupnik | fucking ants? |
| 00:38.06 | DocScrutinizer | ants don't fuck - usually |
| 00:38.40 | pupnik | a fucking deserverd asskicking |
| 00:38.54 | pupnik | well , no - it was chaotic |
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| 00:39.35 | pupnik | you guys up for some great music from minneapolis? |
| 00:39.39 | pupnik | 1991-1994? |
| 00:39.47 | pupnik | super advanced |
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| 01:38.39 | pupnik | http://rapidshare.com/files/432959203/pupnik-enjoy.mp3 |
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| 01:45.38 | blackthorne | hi |
| 01:45.48 | blackthorne | just got my n900 |
| 01:46.49 | blackthorne | my geek greeting, right after loading irssi goes to you |
| 01:48.00 | SpeedEvil | Hi! |
| 01:48.09 | SpeedEvil | xchat works too, and I prefer it personally. |
| 01:49.56 | blackthorne | wow. xchat... |
| 01:50.24 | blackthorne | trying to unzip a file... |
| 01:50.45 | SpeedEvil | unzip is in tools repo I think. |
| 01:51.29 | SpeedEvil | http://www.alamopc.org/pcalamode/reviews/archive1/rev306.html |
| 01:51.33 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 01:51.40 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/ |
| 01:51.48 | SpeedEvil | though there is also an adon for the file manager |
| 01:54.09 | blackthorne | i like terminals but this time i,m looking for some integration |
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| 02:45.10 | Jay_BEE | howdy |
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| 03:08.05 | pupnik | hey murderers :) |
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| 03:36.46 | *** join/#maemo Dante_J (~marco@zathras.its.uq.edu.au) |
| 03:37.23 | Dante_J | Greets the room |
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| 03:41.03 | erstazi | hello Dante_J |
| 03:41.39 | Dante_J | what's new erstazi? |
| 03:42.33 | erstazi | Dante_J: just relaxing,⦠thinking of the next thing I can destroy (: |
| 03:42.55 | Dante_J | heh |
| 03:43.23 | Dante_J | So this is a kind of broad question. Feel free those who wish to chime in to do so. |
| 03:43.39 | erstazi | Dante_J: shoot |
| 03:44.29 | Dante_J | How would you rate the state of the Maemo /(Meego) community at the moment. I ask that as a long time proud N800 & now N900 owner. I have my opinions, but I want to hear from others. |
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| 03:47.28 | erstazi | Dante_J: been a maemo user since 770. I miss those days. MeeGo in my opinion has potential but I wished for the debian base instead of opensuse (rpm-based). The UI looks refreshing in MeeGo though. Also MeeGo has two organizations supporting it verses just one organization with maemo |
| 03:48.06 | Dante_J | knods |
| 03:48.20 | Dante_J | but what about the *community*? |
| 03:48.20 | erstazi | Dante_J: what is your opinion? |
| 03:50.06 | Dante_J | For me I've used Debian and Fedora based distros concurrently for years, so switching from a deb back end to rpm is not a big deal at all for me. It's just a way to deliver the code - and that code is written by people who are often enough part of or influenced by the community. Hence my question. |
| 03:50.27 | erstazi | right |
| 03:50.37 | erstazi | Dante_J: I think other people are sleeping (: |
| 03:50.41 | erstazi | or too shy to answer |
| 03:50.49 | erstazi | or drunk |
| 03:51.19 | Dante_J | I'm mildly familiar with the Fedora community and the Ubuntu community, and I read through maemo talk every few days, but that's not a great guide of community spirit or health. |
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| 03:55.26 | erstazi | right, I use CentOS and Debian, so I don't mind specifically,⦠I just wonder how much work was done with maemo is being transitioned into MeeGo? |
| 03:58.34 | Dante_J | erstazi: I'd love to know the answer to that question too. |
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| 04:08.02 | Dante_J | Would it be fair to say that most people in the channel are in Europe / US time zones? |
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| 04:15.59 | radic | irgendwie pennt hier alles! |
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| 05:00.52 | Jay_BEE | re |
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| 06:37.52 | CableTwitch | Good (morning/afternoon/evening). |
| 06:38.04 | Dante_J | hi CableTwitch |
| 06:39.12 | CableTwitch | Hey Dante |
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| 06:39.52 | Dante_J | CableTwitch: what do you know? |
| 06:40.48 | CableTwitch | Not a lot, usually. |
| 06:40.55 | CableTwitch | I know how to break my N900, mostly. |
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| 06:41.53 | Dante_J | yea, that applies to most of us I suspect |
| 06:42.27 | CableTwitch | I'm no coder. I'm merely a user that comes here to learn how to unbreak it, and occasionally discover that the HW has gone kaput. |
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| 06:42.41 | CableTwitch | I'll be on my 3rd unit when the replacement comes back XD |
| 06:42.50 | Dante_J | golly! |
| 06:42.58 | Dante_J | usb connector issues? |
| 06:43.08 | CableTwitch | That was the first one, yes. |
| 06:43.22 | CableTwitch | I dropped it on the connector while the USB cable was plugged in. |
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| 06:44.30 | Dante_J | ouch |
| 06:44.31 | CableTwitch | the irony was that I later learned I could have sorted that issue out using the local hackspace hot-air rework station. Didnt rip the connector off the mobo, only caused the connector itself to come apart. |
| 06:44.47 | CableTwitch | So I lost a lot of things I couldnt back up, because I had no way of chaging it. |
| 06:44.53 | CableTwitch | Charging even. |
| 06:44.59 | Dante_J | ahh |
| 06:45.16 | Dante_J | could you ssh to it and tar everything important up and off? |
| 06:45.32 | Dante_J | and charge batteries externally? |
| 06:45.35 | CableTwitch | The 2nd phone I just sent back, as it killed itself eventually. No amount of flashing both the rootfs or the eMMC would fix it, and it displayed some rather odd behaviour that we decided was fritzed hardware. |
| 06:46.02 | Dante_J | hmmm, doesn't sound good. |
| 06:46.25 | CableTwitch | As I said, I'm merely a user of the phone. I dont do linux, or anything technical in the software front. SSH is something I've heard others talk about, but never used myself. I dont even run linux as a desktop. |
| 06:47.26 | CableTwitch | I've learned a little through messing with the phone itself, but I'm nowhere near technical enough with the OS to do anything beyond installing apps. I'm a self-confessed hardware bod, I dont do software :O) |
| 06:51.03 | CableTwitch | Eh, besides, I couldnt get the damn thing to connect as a USB drive, and I was very lucky to get it to connect in upload mode in order to flash it. |
| 06:51.18 | CableTwitch | Plug the USB cable in, and the device powered up and tried to boot. Same with the power lead. |
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| 06:52.12 | CableTwitch | Something went a bit mental in the charging/power circuitry, is my guess. Possible overheating, or a fried control IC maybe. Either way, no power/staus LED signals, and undesirable operation meant it was going back anyhow. |
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| 07:14.57 | Dante_J | CableTwitch: Sorry for my lag, distracted by work. Sounds like you've experiences a few failures. |
| 07:15.14 | Dante_J | CableTwitch: apart from that, what do you think of the N900? |
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| 07:17.11 | Dante_J | CableTwitch: Sorry, have to go. see you again |
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| 07:21.13 | CableTwitch | Doh, wasnt paying attention XD |
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| 07:34.07 | ni1s | how do I remove a package that's stuck in a "very bad inconsistent state"? |
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| 07:41.54 | RobbieThe1st | ni1s: I'd do an "apt-get install X --reinstall", then uninstall it |
| 07:41.59 | RobbieThe1st | It -might- work |
| 07:44.41 | CableTwitch | gets the Pyramid and Black Lamb |
| 07:44.50 | CableTwitch | I saved them, they werent required earlier. |
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| 08:17.58 | Termana | good morning |
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| 08:18.45 | mece | \o |
| 08:18.54 | peb_ | Termana, good morning |
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| 08:48.13 | peb_ | Does anyone of you know of a SMS to Speech App on the N900? Lifehacker just had a post about such an app on the Android ... |
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| 08:49.20 | ieatlint | i don't know of one, but as espeak is on the n900 (a voice synth), it probably wouldn't be difficult to write one |
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| 08:50.59 | peb_ | ieatlint, I think so, too. All the stuff should be there -- but how do I access (incoming) SMS on the N900? haven't found yet (and haven't searched deeply ... too) |
| 08:51.35 | ieatlint | uh, i think qtmobility can do it, and there are c libs... let me see if i can dig up a link |
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| 08:52.09 | peb_ | ieatlint, that would be cool! |
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| 08:54.32 | ieatlint | hmm, well i know sms runs on telepathy, so if you were listening for new sms you might be sitting on that |
| 08:54.42 | ieatlint | dunno if telepathy is actually used to access sms from an archive |
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| 08:55.29 | Venemo_N900 | hey guys |
| 08:55.50 | toggles | Ciao bella |
| 08:57.17 | peb_ | Hey Venemo_N900 |
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| 08:57.41 | Venemo_N900 | ~seen khertan_ |
| 08:57.49 | infobot | khertan_ is currently on #maemo (1d 1h 48m 5s) #meego (1d 1h 48m 5s), last said: 'i must go on ... going to office. Bye'. |
| 08:57.55 | ieatlint | peb_, don't have an easy link for you on a c interface... but the telepathy apis might be the place to look |
| 08:58.23 | Venemo_N900 | c interface for what? |
| 08:58.32 | peb_ | ieatlint, thanks for the help. I'll try & dig into it. Need such an app for me while driving ... |
| 08:58.46 | ieatlint | reading sms |
| 08:58.55 | peb_ | Venemo_N900: we were talking about an "SMS to Speech" app .. |
| 08:59.08 | ieatlint | perhaps different if you want to watch for incoming sms instead of looking at an archive |
| 08:59.41 | peb_ | ieatlint, mostly incoming would be relevant :-) (don't look on the N900 while driving ...) |
| 09:00.16 | Venemo_N900 | peb_: hm... well I think there is one, but I don't know any details |
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| 09:00.40 | Venemo_N900 | peb_: for text-to-speech there is espeak which has already been ported to Maemo |
| 09:00.56 | alterego | good moaning |
| 09:01.15 | peb_ | Venemo_N900: clear, but how do I get espeak to read the (incoming) SMS? |
| 09:01.44 | alterego | pick it up from dbus and pipe it to espeak |
| 09:01.55 | lcuk | peb_, you do the same as other people with a desire for an app |
| 09:02.09 | peb_ | lcuk, yes, write it myself :-) |
| 09:02.11 | lcuk | you investigate how, learn and test and make an app :P |
| 09:02.17 | lcuk | then get the glory :) |
| 09:02.38 | lcuk | the app itself sounds cool :) i keep pondering how to do it for irc |
| 09:02.55 | Venemo_N900 | peb_: well you "only" need a way to read the SMSes fromsomewhere, then forward it to espeak :) |
| 09:02.55 | khertan_ | Venemo_N900, Hi ! |
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| 09:02.57 | lcuk | peb_, there was a time we didn't have MMS on the N900 :) |
| 09:02.59 | khertan_ | Morning all ! |
| 09:03.04 | lcuk | until someone sat down and made it |
| 09:03.09 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: helloooo! :) |
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| 09:03.59 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: sorry for bothering you, but I have a serious issue with KhtEditor |
| 09:04.41 | peb_ | lcuk, I'm aware of that .... But I think alterego pointed me in the right direction (reading the SMS from dbus). I didn't know where to get that SMS from ... |
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| 09:04.52 | khertan_ | Venemo_N900, which one ? |
| 09:05.15 | lcuk | peb_, a DBUS message is raised when the message comes in |
| 09:05.16 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: particularly with its feature that runs c/c++ apps |
| 09:05.44 | lcuk | it generally comes from your mum or your friends or at a pinch fro ma test message from yourself |
| 09:06.42 | khertan_ | Venemo_N900, hum ... you mean with the execute toolbar button ? |
| 09:06.58 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: yes |
| 09:07.06 | khertan_ | Venemo_N900, as i know it s working for python, ruby and sh ... |
| 09:07.19 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: when trying to run a c program it says, "/tmp/khteditor.tmp: line 3: c: not found" |
| 09:07.27 | khertan_ | but for c/c++ it ll not do right thing yet |
| 09:07.57 | khertan_ | i think i should add a execute command field in the preference for such language |
| 09:08.07 | khertan_ | as it s require a compile before |
| 09:08.30 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: yeah |
| 09:08.30 | khertan_ | so ... need to know what args to send to the compiler (and which compiler to use) |
| 09:08.38 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: I have another concern about it |
| 09:08.43 | khertan_ | yep ? |
| 09:08.58 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: the app only offers to open files from MyDocs |
| 09:09.09 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: which is mounted with noexec |
| 09:09.30 | khertan_ | yep due to shitty fracked QFileDialog |
| 09:09.40 | khertan_ | (doesn't show extension too) |
| 09:10.04 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: so, KhtEditor should copy the file to some secret place in /home/user and build it there |
| 09:10.20 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 09:10.24 | khertan_ | Venemo_N900, secret place will be /tmp :) |
| 09:10.38 | khertan_ | morning Jaffa |
| 09:10.44 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: okay with me |
| 09:11.01 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: if it is written with Qt, I would be more than welcome to contribute. is it? |
| 09:11.48 | khertan_ | yep you are welcome. Git repository is available at http://gitorious.org/khteditor |
| 09:11.50 | khertan_ | :) |
| 09:12.11 | alterego | Anyone know off hand how to detect whether your app has been backgrounded? |
| 09:12.26 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: ok, I'll look at it |
| 09:12.35 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: what I meant is I would be more than happy to contribute |
| 09:12.59 | alterego | Logged 1hr of telemetry this morning, whilst listening to music, battery indicator still reads full. |
| 09:13.04 | Venemo_N900 | alterego: yeah, there is some property of QWidget that says that |
| 09:13.16 | alterego | So I'm pretty happy about that :) |
| 09:13.19 | khertan_ | Venemo_N900, and i ll be happy that someone else contribute to it. |
| 09:13.24 | alterego | Venemo_N900: okay, thanks for the pointer. |
| 09:13.28 | Venemo_N900 | alterego: alternatively, when your main widget becomes out of focus |
| 09:13.36 | Gh0sty | how do i form alt key? |
| 09:13.44 | alterego | Hrm, yeah, I'll do some testing. |
| 09:14.20 | Gh0sty | channel switching in irssi without alt is somewhat fancy |
| 09:14.31 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: oh-oh... I'm not very comfortable with Python yet |
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| 09:15.01 | Venemo_N900 | Gh0sty: you could remap some key to become an alt key |
| 09:15.05 | khertan_ | Venemo_N900, hum ... python isn't the hard part :) Most of things are just qt call |
| 09:15.21 | Venemo_N900 | Gh0sty: for example, Fn+something=alt |
| 09:15.30 | Gh0sty | could i get alt on my xterminal onscreen bar? |
| 09:15.36 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: yeah, I made a PyQt app once |
| 09:15.49 | Venemo_N900 | Gh0sty: there is no way I know of to do that |
| 09:16.06 | Gh0sty | hm damn :( |
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| 09:22.50 | Venemo_N900 | khertan_: do you code KhtEditor with KhtEditor? :P |
| 09:23.12 | khertan_ | yes :) |
| 09:23.42 | Venemo_N900 | :) |
| 09:24.05 | Gorroth | unf! repackaged nokia's stupid flasher thing that supposedly only works on i386 (according to their control file) to work on amd64 |
| 09:24.08 | Gorroth | well, the binary always worked, but i had to cut open the package, add the extra architecture, and repackage it |
| 09:24.26 | Venemo_N900 | Gorroth: nice |
| 09:24.39 | Gorroth | :) |
| 09:24.57 | Gorroth | was a bit annoying that nokia didn't just put "i386, amd64" in the .deb |
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| 09:25.09 | Venemo_N900 | hehe |
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| 09:39.45 | crashanddie | haha |
| 09:39.55 | crashanddie | I love my coworkers. In a doc: "This alert shouldnt happen." |
| 09:40.12 | crashanddie | If it's not supposed to happen, why document it for a _customer documentation_? |
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| 09:42.13 | khertan_ | crashanddie, you know one day one of my coworker do a if i<0: alert("blabla") elif i>=0: alert("error") else alert("What the fuck") |
| 09:42.26 | khertan_ | Wtf was displayed on many case |
| 09:42.52 | crashanddie | khertan_, when I worked for the Australian Gov Driving Licence project, there was an error message we always dreaded |
| 09:42.58 | crashanddie | it said "Something bad happened" |
| 09:43.01 | crashanddie | And that was it |
| 09:43.12 | crashanddie | The system would just die, stop, nearly instantly. No logs, no traces, nothing. |
| 09:43.26 | lcuk | cannot believe #meego are discussing boobies |
| 09:43.26 | jacekowski | no core dumps? |
| 09:43.27 | khertan_ | as the language used never except on divide by 0 but else generate an particular integer 'infinite' which isn't greater than 0 |
| 09:43.31 | crashanddie | jacekowski, java |
| 09:43.33 | khertan_ | but not lesser : |
| 09:43.34 | khertan_ | :) |
| 09:43.45 | jacekowski | then you should have some logs |
| 09:43.48 | jacekowski | exceptions |
| 09:43.51 | jacekowski | stack traces |
| 09:43.52 | jacekowski | gc logs |
| 09:44.10 | khertan_ | jacekowski, depends on the language you use |
| 09:44.12 | lcuk | crashanddie, morning, how are you? |
| 09:44.17 | jacekowski | khertan_: he said java |
| 09:44.33 | crashanddie | lcuk, good, got a unofficial promotion as Product Manager yesterday |
| 09:44.38 | lcuk | \o/ |
| 09:44.43 | lcuk | sweet |
| 09:44.57 | lcuk | does it involve unofficial payrise tho? |
| 09:45.06 | jacekowski | what does product manager do? |
| 09:45.08 | crashanddie | lcuk, currently negotiating that |
| 09:45.31 | crashanddie | jacekowski, roadmaps, documentation management, customer expectation management, requirements gathering, and in my case, C++ development too. |
| 09:45.38 | lcuk | jacekowski, don't be silly |
| 09:45.43 | lcuk | he manages products obviously |
| 09:46.35 | khertan_ | crashanddie, unofficial like you get problems, not greetings, not wage increase :) |
| 09:46.35 | crashanddie | jacekowski, well, no. Don't forget this was a J2EE app that would run inside a WebSphere cluster, and if your code manages to bring down the app server, you're pretty much screwed -- a usual startup of the system would generate about 120MB of logs, and if when it crashes you just get a websphere segfault, you are _not_ a happy camper. |
| 09:47.03 | khertan_ | s/wage increase/payrise :) |
| 09:47.06 | crashanddie | khertan_, nha, unofficially because we're waiting a couple of weeks before announcing it at the christmas party |
| 09:47.14 | khertan_ | learn a new english word today |
| 09:47.26 | khertan_ | crashanddie, so not so bad :) |
| 09:47.35 | khertan_ | gratz |
| 09:48.41 | crashanddie | ta |
| 09:48.55 | crashanddie | lcuk, what bout you guv, how are things going in Gunchester? |
| 09:50.35 | MohammadAG | morning |
| 09:50.42 | lcuk | things are good I think |
| 09:51.17 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: morning! :) |
| 09:51.30 | MohammadAG | nice school day, 4 chemistry lessons, teacher wasn't at school, so I'm done 3-ish hours early |
| 09:51.34 | crashanddie | morning MohammadAG |
| 09:51.37 | MohammadAG | well, 4-ish |
| 09:51.52 | Venemo_N900 | :) |
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| 09:52.06 | MohammadAG | need to wake up my PC remotely |
| 09:54.50 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: could we get this into Maemo? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2637_video&num=2 |
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| 09:56.05 | alterego | wake on lan, and DMZ |
| 09:56.13 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, said it won't do anything on maemo iirc |
| 09:56.19 | MohammadAG | alterego, got both |
| 09:59.02 | alterego | It'd do more harm than good imo |
| 09:59.22 | MohammadAG | why? |
| 09:59.48 | alterego | Because our kernel is tuned to work with what we have. Everything is tested to be "stable" with what we have. |
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| 09:59.59 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: the patch won't do anything why? |
| 10:00.10 | alterego | There's no way to know how those kinds of performance changes would effect the operation of the device. |
| 10:00.30 | MohammadAG | oh, that |
| 10:00.34 | Venemo_N900 | well according to stskeeps it did effect the N900 |
| 10:00.37 | MohammadAG | i thought you were talking about dmz |
| 10:00.37 | Gorroth | except by trying it out |
| 10:00.53 | MohammadAG | even on 2.6.28? |
| 10:01.34 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: what? |
| 10:02.08 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: that I dunno |
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| 10:03.27 | Venemo_N900 | perhaps we could simply ask the author of the power kernel to include this |
| 10:03.35 | toggles | Venemo_N900: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/11/alternative-to-200-lines-kernel-patch.html |
| 10:06.08 | Venemo_N900 | toggles: does it work on Maemo? |
| 10:06.36 | toggles | no idea, but you are welcome to try and report your results |
| 10:07.48 | jacekowski | that patch is useless |
| 10:07.56 | jacekowski | unless you are running at 100% all the time |
| 10:08.03 | nidO | itll do nothing, its totally irrelevant to the use-case of the n900 |
| 10:08.23 | jacekowski | and n900 is slow because it's i/o bound inmost cases |
| 10:08.26 | jacekowski | rather than cpu bound |
| 10:08.41 | lcuk | swappolube! |
| 10:08.45 | Venemo_N900 | toggles: seems that there is no ~/.bashrc in Maemo |
| 10:09.54 | nidO | the clue is in the name |
| 10:09.55 | alterego | We use busybox, try .profile |
| 10:10.24 | RST38h | lcuk: swappolube mostly looks like snake oil to me |
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| 10:10.36 | RST38h | lcuk: did not help improve thigns either |
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| 10:11.48 | lcuk | RST38h, depends how you look at it :) perception of improvement is improvement even if it may not be measurable |
| 10:11.53 | chem|st | RST38h: Viagrino for the boner in between... |
| 10:11.57 | Venemo_N900 | well |
| 10:12.15 | chem|st | RST38h: have you seen that optimizingN900 script setup |
| 10:12.42 | Venemo_N900 | this patch could solve the issue when you do something heavy with the N900 and then receive a call and it becomes totally unresponsive |
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| 10:13.34 | chem|st | RST38h: people trying to make there device stable over longterm use by running it cron'ed, out of curiousity I ran it... straight to reboot |
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| 10:14.17 | chem|st | s/there/their/ |
| 10:14.49 | Venemo_N900 | what is cron? |
| 10:15.10 | chem|st | Venemo_N900: repeating events handler |
| 10:15.27 | Venemo_N900 | chem|st: ah. |
| 10:15.51 | chem|st | Venemo_N900: cron is a service you tell to run ever x minutes y hours "this" script |
| 10:16.09 | Venemo_N900 | chem|st: and what script is it that you run |
| 10:16.27 | chem|st | Venemo_N900: you mean that optimizingN900 thing |
| 10:16.44 | Venemo_N900 | chem|st: never tried |
| 10:17.02 | chem|st | Venemo_N900: I tried to convince them in the thread about it to stop doing BS |
| 10:17.11 | Venemo_N900 | hehe |
| 10:17.20 | chem|st | it is basically a "killall *" script |
| 10:17.28 | Venemo_N900 | lol |
| 10:17.37 | lcuk | poor * |
| 10:17.39 | Venemo_N900 | anyway, I must leave now. will come back a bit later |
| 10:17.46 | Venemo_N900 | bye guys :) |
| 10:17.49 | lcuk | \o |
| 10:17.57 | chem|st | and I tried the version the author claimed "is not anymore rebooting the device" |
| 10:18.03 | soltys | omg |
| 10:18.46 | chem|st | I said I doubt that it will do any good as they killed like any job the watchdog is after |
| 10:19.23 | *** join/#maemo einsteinchen (~einsteinc@wpa-uds448.funklan.uni-saarland.de) |
| 10:19.33 | Gorroth | downloadin' the android sdk |
| 10:19.46 | chem|st | "by that command you will restart the service"... I said "no you will kill the daemon and watchdog will start it, if you do that twice in 5 seconds it will do a security reboot" |
| 10:20.11 | chem|st | guess who was right... |
| 10:21.08 | Gorroth | restart |
| 10:21.11 | chem|st | it is actualy 30 seconds and 60 seconds, depends on service (afair) |
| 10:21.16 | chem|st | Gorroth: GL |
| 10:21.30 | Gorroth | good laugh? |
| 10:21.35 | chem|st | luck |
| 10:21.47 | Gorroth | oh, for what? |
| 10:22.04 | chem|st | Gorroth: or did you mean that it restarted the service? |
| 10:22.05 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:22.19 | Gorroth | i meant it restarted the service |
| 10:22.22 | Gorroth | i was just making it up |
| 10:22.30 | chem|st | my device rebooted... |
| 10:22.53 | Gorroth | oh |
| 10:23.02 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@32.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:23.08 | jacekowski | you should unregister dsme watchdog before |
| 10:23.17 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 10:23.19 | jacekowski | then kill it |
| 10:23.21 | jacekowski | and restart it |
| 10:23.22 | chem|st | Gorroth: killall <service the watchdog is after> is only a good idea if you arent able to stop it properly anymore |
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| 10:24.07 | Gorroth | oh, i really wasn't reading the conversation earlier |
| 10:24.14 | Gorroth | i was just making a lame joke |
| 10:24.27 | chem|st | Gorroth: ;) |
| 10:24.55 | chem|st | those kiddies on tmo are awesome |
| 10:25.03 | Gorroth | i like tmo |
| 10:25.14 | Gorroth | i don't plan to change my service away from them anytime soon |
| 10:25.44 | jacekowski | they suck |
| 10:25.48 | chem|st | ~tmo |
| 10:25.49 | infobot | tmo is, like, http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo |
| 10:25.49 | jacekowski | o2 is so much better |
| 10:25.51 | jacekowski | no |
| 10:25.54 | jacekowski | t-mobile |
| 10:26.19 | Gorroth | so, O2 isn't better here, because it doesn't exist here |
| 10:26.22 | hrw | does someone here uses syncevolution? |
| 10:26.47 | chem|st | Gorroth: over here we call it terrorkom, and I wont contract with them any time again |
| 10:27.12 | ieatlint | i agree, t-mo us is decent |
| 10:27.24 | ieatlint | beats the hell out of att at least, the only other gsm/umts carrier |
| 10:27.50 | Gorroth | oh. over here (USA), they are the smallest of the big 4, meaning they offer the best deals. but i don't contract with them |
| 10:28.05 | Gorroth | i have a post-pay plan with them on my main phone and a pay-as-you-go on the n900 |
| 10:28.23 | Gorroth | just for the $1.49 internet when i need it (unlimited 24 hour internet at that price) |
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| 10:29.25 | chem|st | Gorroth: as they used to be a german governmental service they are the biggest over here, with worst conditions and selling your soul for landlines/iphone/internet |
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| 10:29.39 | fck | in lithuania bite 2euro 7GB for 3g |
| 10:29.56 | fck | prepay |
| 10:29.57 | Gorroth | yes, that's kinda like AT&T here |
| 10:30.25 | chem|st | 10eur per month no-limit |
| 10:30.42 | Gorroth | well, prices here suck in general for telecoms |
| 10:30.51 | Gorroth | but that price i quoted is really good for the USA |
| 10:30.59 | Dassu | :( |
| 10:31.03 | Dassu | Same here. |
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| 10:31.31 | chem|st | that's a 1eur per day that is fair I guess |
| 10:32.20 | Gorroth | yeah, and only when i want to use it. |
| 10:32.33 | Gorroth | so if i only use it a couple times a month, it's only $3 / mo. |
| 10:32.54 | chem|st | sure... I guess I do not use it more frequently than 10 times a month |
| 10:33.12 | Gorroth | and considering i might only use this on the weekends or something when i'm doing "evil stuff" with it, i will probably only pay 3-4 times a month |
| 10:33.24 | Gorroth | yeah |
| 10:33.50 | Gorroth | now, my main phone has unlimited internet all the time |
| 10:34.02 | Gorroth | and it has to stay that way :) it downloads updates and podcasts in the background |
| 10:34.14 | Gorroth | helps me with GPS directions, etc. |
| 10:34.58 | chem|st | Gorroth: my contract should be 20eur but I get a discount as longterm customer so I pay about 4eur for internet and like nothing for mobilephone |
| 10:35.41 | Gorroth | ah, okay. i'm a recent customer, as of 11 months ago |
| 10:35.59 | Gorroth | but they didn't jump my price when they increased the prices a little bit on their plans (they gave a little more too, but nothing i needed) |
| 10:36.06 | Gorroth | so i guess i'm grandfathered in as well from now on |
| 10:36.25 | Gorroth | and the great thing is that i can change my phone at will and keep that price, unless they change their mind (since there is no contract) :) |
| 10:36.33 | chem|st | I had a lucky spot as this was only available for 30days and was not shown at the website |
| 10:36.44 | Gorroth | nice |
| 10:37.27 | chem|st | but with that I gave up the free phone choice forever, did not know that until I was in need of a new phone |
| 10:38.07 | ieatlint | Gorroth, yeah, tmobile does the grandfathered thing well |
| 10:38.19 | ieatlint | i've been a customer for 7 years now... |
| 10:38.23 | *** join/#maemo leandrosansilva (~quassel@189.114.163.119.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 10:39.01 | ieatlint | had my issues with them, but they don't compare to the horrors i see friends with att have, and at the end of the day, the phone works and the customer service is generally polite |
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| 10:41.50 | ieatlint | heh, and t-mo us is also advertising their 3g network as 4g |
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| 10:42.08 | Gorroth | ieatlint: yeah. i had an iphone but left AT&T and paid the contrac ttermination charge because it was so bad |
| 10:42.15 | Gorroth | been happy with tmo in the northeast at least |
| 10:42.42 | ieatlint | i think a big part of their issue is the iphone... too many people |
| 10:42.48 | Gorroth | the iPhone probably had a lot to do with the poor AT&T quality though, because before that phone, AT&T worked really well for me |
| 10:42.52 | Gorroth | yeah |
| 10:42.59 | ieatlint | it's said here that whenever hipsters congregrate, an att cell tower goes down |
| 10:43.06 | Gorroth | hahaha |
| 10:43.14 | Gorroth | i hate hipsters so much |
| 10:43.30 | ieatlint | yeah... and they're all over the place :( |
| 10:43.44 | Gorroth | i know :( |
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| 10:44.31 | Gorroth | okay, i'm going to sleep while the android sdk does it thing for setup |
| 10:44.33 | Gorroth | & |
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| 11:06.49 | chem|st | What's new in Nokia Ovi Suite 3.0 |
| 11:06.49 | chem|st | A new Home view |
| 11:06.49 | chem|st | * Quick access to my content and sync |
| 11:06.49 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:06.49 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:06.51 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:06.54 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:06.57 | chem|st | Introducing Ovi Music |
| 11:07.00 | chem|st | * Full playback controls * Discover and download your favourites from the millions of tracks available on Ovi* |
| 11:07.03 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:07.05 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:07.08 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:07.10 | chem|st | Other improvements |
| 11:07.13 | chem|st | * Faster and simpler installation |
| 11:07.15 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:07.21 | chem|st | ooops sry |
| 11:07.34 | chem|st | oh yeah btw NOS 3 is now public beta ;) |
| 11:08.30 | kerio | nos3? |
| 11:08.33 | kerio | oh |
| 11:10.11 | nidO | it still sucks and doesnt work properly though :\ |
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| 11:16.16 | MohammadAG | so |
| 11:16.26 | MohammadAG | how do i replace my internal battery? |
| 11:17.00 | RobbieThe1st | Internal battery..? |
| 11:17.06 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: which internal battery? |
| 11:17.15 | MohammadAG | N900 |
| 11:17.23 | MohammadAG | the one that keeps the clock going |
| 11:17.32 | MohammadAG | i lose settings on each battery replacement |
| 11:17.32 | mikki-kun | are you refering to the mobo-battery? |
| 11:17.35 | RobbieThe1st | There isn't one - It's the main battery + a capacitor |
| 11:17.50 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@32.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:18.06 | CableTwitch | Hey Mo, you still trying to wreck the inside of your 900? ;O) |
| 11:18.19 | MohammadAG | well then my capacitor got fried |
| 11:18.28 | MohammadAG | already did :P |
| 11:18.33 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: and you seem to "loose" setting also if your sim-card might seem changed, maybe it could be a problem with that as well? |
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| 11:18.46 | kerio | MohammadAG: send your n900 to nokia |
| 11:19.01 | kerio | also the batteries are the same internal batteries of the omfr |
| 11:19.06 | kerio | and those batteries sucked ass |
| 11:19.07 | MohammadAG | I know about that, but time doesn't reset if the sim is changed |
| 11:19.12 | kerio | (sez DocScrutinizer) |
| 11:19.30 | MohammadAG | kerio, no Nokia around here |
| 11:19.40 | mikki-kun | which firmware you'd recommend for me? i will remake my n900 this weekend (haven't been updating it for almost two months now and it got too slow to try finding the bugs) |
| 11:19.43 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 11:20.01 | mikki-kun | omfr? |
| 11:20.14 | RobbieThe1st | 1.3 |
| 11:20.57 | MohammadAG | OpenMoko FreeRunner |
| 11:21.31 | mikki-kun | isn't that another linux handheld? |
| 11:21.44 | chem|st | RobbieThe1st: thought it is a battery... |
| 11:22.34 | *** join/#maemo mairas_ (~mairas@a91-152-97-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:22.40 | chem|st | MohammadAG: soldered between cam-button and powerbutton on the backside of the mobo |
| 11:23.11 | MohammadAG | soldered? :( |
| 11:23.11 | RobbieThe1st | hm... |
| 11:23.13 | mikki-kun | and what is this u-boot stuff? |
| 11:23.22 | RobbieThe1st | Looking at a disassembly video right noq |
| 11:24.06 | MohammadAG | RobbieThe1st, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly |
| 11:24.41 | RobbieThe1st | Oh. then, right there: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly/21112010098.jpg right above the vibrator motor |
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| 11:25.23 | RobbieThe1st | That's a tiny battery alright |
| 11:25.27 | mikki-kun | RobbieThe1st: yup, that one seems to be it |
| 11:25.27 | MohammadAG | yeah, seen it |
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| 11:25.47 | chem|st | RobbieThe1st: as I said... |
| 11:25.49 | RobbieThe1st | So... Pull it out and replace it with something the right voltage? |
| 11:26.03 | RobbieThe1st | chem|st: I'm not disputing that. Now. |
| 11:26.11 | chem|st | RobbieThe1st: ;) |
| 11:26.35 | RobbieThe1st | I thought it didn't have one due to it always seeming to lose time if the battery was out for more than a few seconds |
| 11:26.47 | chem|st | MohammadAG: might be disconnected somehow as these things should runn for like ever |
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| 11:28.57 | RobbieThe1st | Huh, what are those two squarish things on the left and right/top of the device? http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly/21112010103.jpg (left side of picture |
| 11:29.50 | mikki-kun | RobbieThe1st: maybe the speakers? |
| 11:30.15 | RobbieThe1st | Yea, that would make since |
| 11:30.17 | MohammadAG | indeed |
| 11:30.21 | mikki-kun | well ok... doesn't make much sense though |
| 11:30.52 | mikki-kun | ohhh |
| 11:30.57 | mikki-kun | it does make perfect sense |
| 11:30.59 | mikki-kun | x) |
| 11:31.21 | mikki-kun | i just reminded myself that it has the speaker grill in the top part of it |
| 11:31.27 | mikki-kun | but why face them like that? |
| 11:31.36 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-cuimuvxzmltpgcah) |
| 11:31.54 | X-Fade | mikki-kun: Because otherwise the device needs to be an additional 1cm thicker ;) |
| 11:32.16 | mikki-kun | would you even feel that with the already bloated design? ;) |
| 11:33.15 | mikki-kun | nothing against my lovely n900, just at times she feels kinda brick-like... at least that makes for sturyness and prevents unwanted break ups of the device |
| 11:33.31 | mikki-kun | MohammadAG: why did you take your n900 apart again? |
| 11:34.28 | MohammadAG | phone powered off for no reason :/ |
| 11:35.13 | mikki-kun | :( |
| 11:35.30 | mikki-kun | no warranty? |
| 11:35.41 | RobbieThe1st | Bah! Warranty's are for sissies! |
| 11:35.49 | RobbieThe1st | (and people who haven |
| 11:36.04 | RobbieThe1st | t voided it by doing stuff to their n900s) |
| 11:36.06 | mikki-kun | RobbieThe1st: not if your pocket's empty and you want your phone back to working condition |
| 11:36.19 | MohammadAG | nope, it's a US device |
| 11:36.35 | MohammadAG | and in 1 month 3 days it'll expire anyways |
| 11:37.32 | RobbieThe1st | Heck, I'm not sure I even got a warranty on mine - I got it off eBay, looked up the IMEI number and got "You're phone isn't under warranty". For whatever reason. |
| 11:38.22 | RobbieThe1st | And of course, it's all moot now anyway - It works fine, and it's been OC'd signifigantly. |
| 11:38.26 | kerio | eu devices are still under warranty until at least end of summer 2011 right? |
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| 11:40.51 | chem|st | kerio: end of autumn but yes |
| 11:40.56 | Trewas | at least mine had two year warranty (and probably same for all of EU), so it will be under warranty until the end of next year |
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| 11:41.53 | chem|st | Trewas: was shipped in december wasn't it?! |
| 11:42.23 | Trewas | chem|st: yeah, I don't think anybody got them before december |
| 11:42.30 | chem|st | I mean the earliest devices |
| 11:42.38 | chem|st | yep |
| 11:42.50 | chem|st | end of autumn then at least |
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| 11:44.14 | alterego | whistles a semi-happy tune .. |
| 11:45.15 | MohammadAG | sighs |
| 11:45.31 | chem|st | alterego: luck grabbed motivation and both are hidding under my desk now... |
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| 11:48.36 | CableTwitch | MohammadAG: Did you figure out if you could mess withthe RAM modules inthe N900? |
| 11:49.40 | alterego | chem|st: Heh, I'm having this annoying issue, that if I destroy my BluetoothServer, when I try to recreate it again, if it's being re-enabled, it causes a segfault in an annoyingly unhelpful place. |
| 11:50.03 | alterego | Something weird with sdpd registration me thinks :/ |
| 11:50.10 | CableTwitch | Is it possible to have a segfault in an extremely helpful place? |
| 11:50.51 | alterego | Well, it's not annoying when it's the last call in a program :D |
| 11:51.25 | alterego | sdp_set_profile_descs |
| 11:51.29 | alterego | That's the function that segfaults. |
| 11:51.39 | alterego | On second call. |
| 11:51.53 | alterego | All input data is perfectly valid, everything works fine the first time ... |
| 11:53.16 | alterego | Laptop is about to die |
| 11:53.18 | alterego | bbl |
| 11:53.55 | alterego | Okay, fixed the issue |
| 11:53.55 | alterego | :D |
| 11:53.57 | alterego | bbl |
| 11:59.25 | chem|st | alterego: I got a problem just alike with BT (networking), first time everything is fine, disconnect and I am not even able to pair the devices again, both sides seem to be in proper state |
| 12:00.32 | chem|st | restarting BT and dhcpd and stuff did never help btw |
| 12:00.58 | chem|st | only once per laptop boot... |
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| 13:04.25 | mikki-kun | can somebody also sum some important break throughs from the past two months in maemo (except pr1.3 and usb host seeming to work and a new power kernel) |
| 13:05.37 | mikki-kun | any apps or hacks you'd recommend so my n900 will be even faster (except OCing, doesn't help much if the IOs get too much) |
| 13:06.14 | CableTwitch | Oh, USB hostmode works now? |
| 13:06.27 | mikki-kun | at least i heard it is supposed to at least be beta now for everybody |
| 13:06.52 | CableTwitch | By works, does that mean without rebooting/screwing around with files/performing voodoo? |
| 13:07.47 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:07.47 | mikki-kun | seems to be abled at kernel-level |
| 13:07.50 | mikki-kun | *enabled |
| 13:08.01 | mikki-kun | so it is a one time rebooting it seems |
| 13:08.40 | mikki-kun | but when playing with the kernel, it can be nasty in the end |
| 13:08.47 | mikki-kun | if it fails to install properly |
| 13:09.26 | mikki-kun | then your n900 will be introduced into the world of infinite loops |
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| 13:10.57 | CableTwitch | Oh, I've had that. Was a HW problem though. |
| 13:11.37 | BCMM | mikki-kun: uninstall hildon-desktop, do everything from the command line |
| 13:11.38 | BCMM | ducks |
| 13:11.53 | BCMM | (to go faster, i mean) |
| 13:11.55 | BCMM | install gentoo? |
| 13:12.14 | mikki-kun | BCMM: compiling everything on that poor arm?! Ã.ö |
| 13:12.17 | mikki-kun | you crazy? |
| 13:12.21 | CableTwitch | How on earth would you make a call from the command line? |
| 13:12.31 | CableTwitch | Or, for that matter, accept one? |
| 13:12.31 | BCMM | uh |
| 13:12.32 | *** join/#maemo kkb1101 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 13:12.33 | mikki-kun | it takes already my atom n280 ages at times |
| 13:12.35 | BCMM | dbus? i dunno |
| 13:12.47 | BCMM | mikki-kun: nah, you'd use distcc |
| 13:12.56 | CableTwitch | Warning! You cannot accept a call at this time, as your operator privilidges are too low! |
| 13:13.02 | mikki-kun | i think maemo relies heavily on dbus for that |
| 13:13.28 | mikki-kun | BCMM: but then it ain't -march=native! |
| 13:13.28 | BCMM | sudo call_the_bloody_fire_brigade |
| 13:13.34 | mikki-kun | and i want -march=native! |
| 13:13.51 | BCMM | i'm pretty sure there's a way to find out what -march=native means |
| 13:14.08 | mikki-kun | lscpu and then check what it states |
| 13:14.16 | BCMM | besides, it's Gentoo. the whole point is that you have a stupidly long list of flags that don't do anything |
| 13:14.18 | BCMM | ducks again |
| 13:14.19 | mikki-kun | then do some manual searching and hacking |
| 13:14.50 | BCMM | i didn't know lscpu |
| 13:14.54 | BCMM | but i already don't like it |
| 13:15.07 | BCMM | it's missing bogomips, the only true measure of performance |
| 13:16.02 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@77.30.53.216) |
| 13:16.43 | BCMM | mikki-kun: ok, for a not-stupid suggestion to speed things up: disable tracker |
| 13:16.55 | BCMM | or restrict it to a subdirectory |
| 13:17.24 | BCMM | that's a big one, and it targets IO |
| 13:17.43 | mikki-kun | BCMM: i#ve already tweaked it to only certain dirs |
| 13:19.00 | mikki-kun | Description:Gentoo Base System release 2.0.1-r1 |
| 13:19.19 | mikki-kun | just for you BCMM so you know what i use as my main os :) |
| 13:19.33 | BCMM | oh, me too. i actually have quite sane cflags too |
| 13:19.47 | BCMM | i just don't think it's fair for me to miss out on the fun-poking just cause i use it |
| 13:20.12 | BCMM | mikki-kun: where is that string from, btw? |
| 13:20.23 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@180.183.131.189) |
| 13:21.06 | mikki-kun | BCMM lsb-release is the packages name, you can then use "lsb_release -d" to get that shown |
| 13:21.23 | BCMM | heh, i didn't know we could install lsb-release |
| 13:21.45 | mikki-kun | sys-apps/lsb-release |
| 13:22.03 | BCMM | it'll be just like using ubuntu now |
| 13:22.35 | mikki-kun | how come? |
| 13:23.05 | BCMM | well, it's the easiest way to identify ubuntu's version |
| 13:23.05 | mikki-kun | you mean meego? that will turn out even worse i guess |
| 13:23.28 | mikki-kun | wasn't that by "uname -a" as nobody tweaks his kernel-string? |
| 13:23.30 | BCMM | and the main thing i do when fixing ubuntu for people seems to be pointing out that they missed a dist-upgrade ages ago |
| 13:23.39 | mikki-kun | x) |
| 13:23.55 | BCMM | heh, does lsb_release on gentoo do anything other than tell you your baselayout version? |
| 13:24.11 | BCMM | it isn't really very meaningful on a rolling-release system... |
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| 13:24.46 | mikki-kun | http://linux.die.net/man/1/lsb_release |
| 13:24.57 | BCMM | heh, only just noticed - are you running ~arch? |
| 13:25.43 | mikki-kun | i'd be insane if not to |
| 13:26.15 | mikki-kun | THIS. IS. GENTOO! i mean i live by solving problems coming up from upgrades :) |
| 13:26.34 | mikki-kun | gets my braincells every now and then also a little activated |
| 13:27.22 | BCMM | but you can get more problems by simply keywording a random assortment of packages so they break when you don't keyword the deps! |
| 13:28.00 | *** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio92@unaffiliated/kerio92) |
| 13:29.26 | mikki-kun | i've some of the stuff masked to a certain version e.g. xorg is still 1.7-something... i am not up to solve xorg's problems... i've had more luck solving schrödinger's time independant equation than getting 1.8 working for a long time though following the guides |
| 13:29.27 | *** join/#maemo Brownout (~brownout@ppp-122-118.15-151.iol.it) |
| 13:29.32 | BCMM | i'm starting to feel offtopic |
| 13:32.47 | siriusnova | Maemo is dead |
| 13:32.52 | siriusnova | why do we still have a channel? |
| 13:32.54 | siriusnova | :/ |
| 13:33.19 | khertan_ | siriusnova, because else you will not be able to post about your stupidity |
| 13:33.21 | mikki-kun | due to the n900 still living and kicking ass! |
| 13:33.32 | siriusnova | i have an n900 |
| 13:34.07 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 13:34.46 | mikki-kun | i still think the n900 is an awesome device |
| 13:34.53 | comawhite | if I want to install flash on maemo, which package do i get? |
| 13:35.07 | mikki-kun | it is already installed by default |
| 13:35.22 | mikki-kun | 9.3.something imo |
| 13:35.22 | comawhite | well in the sdk it deals me I don't have it |
| 13:35.32 | siriusnova | n900 is awesome, it would be awesomer if Nokia wasnt a clueless corporation regarding its own devices |
| 13:35.39 | mikki-kun | ahhh, in the sdk... dunno, sorry |
| 13:35.52 | comawhite | siriusnova, don't be mad they dumped gtk |
| 13:36.14 | mikki-kun | the n900 has too much slow storage, too few fast storage and problems with the ram imo |
| 13:36.36 | comawhite | I don't own one so I don't know |
| 13:36.38 | *** join/#maemo frade (~ivan@nat/nokia/x-fwnnyebnrxucnbtu) |
| 13:36.39 | toggles | whiney bitches |
| 13:37.04 | toggles | it's leaps and bounds above n770 and n810, you knew what you were getting into |
| 13:37.38 | comawhite | well wait for the N9 |
| 13:38.40 | mikki-kun | comawhite: not with meego |
| 13:38.53 | mikki-kun | it seems to be utter crap imo |
| 13:39.05 | mikki-kun | drm, everything closed by default... |
| 13:39.12 | mikki-kun | i won't just get it then |
| 13:39.32 | comawhite | mikki-kun, meego looks great |
| 13:39.42 | comawhite | just too bad it's hardware picky |
| 13:39.43 | comawhite | :| |
| 13:40.02 | mikki-kun | i don't like it being closed |
| 13:40.34 | mikki-kun | goes against my (F)OSS policy |
| 13:41.01 | comawhite | I thought it was open |
| 13:41.06 | Wizzup | meego, closed? |
| 13:41.24 | mikki-kun | at least it is by default an option, it can be opened though |
| 13:41.50 | Wizzup | Are you sure you read enough about the project? |
| 13:42.13 | *** join/#maemo sougata (~sougata@hoasnet-fe13dd00-116.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:42.46 | Corsac | mikki-kun: meego as a project is more open than maemo, I guess what you're speaking about is the normal vs. open mode which is about the security system |
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| 13:43.15 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 13:43.17 | Corsac | (and some vendors might not enable open mode at all, that's true) |
| 13:43.40 | mikki-kun | security system? i thought it was affecting the whole system |
| 13:44.24 | Corsac | maybe because security has to be taken system-wide? |
| 13:44.30 | nidO | its two modes that either enable drm and hardware signing or disable it, neither affects the fact that the platform's oss though. |
| 13:45.04 | Corsac | yeah, but the platform beeing oss is one thing, the OS running on the device is another |
| 13:45.36 | BCMM | does that mean that the whole system is either in a "run signed stuff" state or a "run open stuff" state, or that each application is in one mode or the other and they are somewhat sandboxed from interacting with each other? |
| 13:45.40 | Corsac | depending on who you are, it's not the same one which matters :) |
| 13:45.52 | Corsac | BCMM: system-wide |
| 13:45.53 | nidO | BCMM its the system as a whole |
| 13:45.56 | Corsac | needing a reboot |
| 13:46.02 | Corsac | to switch from one mode to another |
| 13:46.12 | *** join/#maemo pablo2 (~pablo@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:46.26 | BCMM | so there is basically an "iphone mode" where you can run signed stuff but aren't allowed to install stuff you wrote? |
| 13:46.58 | Corsac | https://lwn.net/Articles/415833/ |
| 13:47.10 | BCMM | so there isn't yet anything GPLv3-licensed which is truly necessary for a linux distro then |
| 13:47.23 | Corsac | http://wiki.meego.com/Security |
| 13:48.28 | BCMM | " When Ware asked how many in the audience had used their phone for banking, he got quite a few hands; "you're all screwed", he said." -er, what? |
| 13:48.46 | BCMM | sensible browsers don't store that data... |
| 13:49.06 | comawhite | mikki-kun, Meego is open source |
| 13:49.21 | comawhite | Is MeeGo an open source project or a product? |
| 13:49.21 | comawhite | MeeGo is an open source project hosted by the Linux Foundation that encourages community contributions in accordance with the best practices of the open source development model. |
| 13:49.27 | Corsac | BCMM: no, open mode is required for low level development, application developpment can be done using normal mode |
| 13:49.37 | BCMM | ah i see |
| 13:49.46 | BCMM | but the kernel at least is tivoised? |
| 13:50.03 | Corsac | tivoised? |
| 13:50.33 | comawhite | One good thing about Meego it's based on Qt :) |
| 13:50.34 | BCMM | source is GPL'ed or similar, but you can't actually replace teh code |
| 13:50.49 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:51.14 | *** join/#maemo tilppis (~tilppis@89-166-4-136.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 13:51.23 | BCMM | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoisation |
| 13:51.46 | BCMM | like so many things in the world today, Linus doesn't understand why RMS is so upset about it |
| 13:53.55 | khertan_ | BCMM, hum ... so will run only signed app too ? and for pyqt apps ? |
| 13:55.15 | BCMM | i don't know |
| 13:55.26 | khertan_ | Protection of the software deployment chain by cryptography-based source authentication and ranking to prevent attacks via malicious repositories. <<< third party repository exclude |
| 13:55.30 | BCMM | i'm asking how it works |
| 13:55.31 | khertan_ | a good start |
| 13:55.54 | khertan_ | to prevent me to switch to meego :) |
| 13:56.04 | BCMM | yeah... |
| 13:56.29 | BCMM | woah, wiki says mer is giving up because of meego |
| 13:57.34 | BCMM | is there currently an alternative being worked on for use to use in the event that meego turns out to suck and hate freedom? |
| 13:57.45 | BCMM | (to totally exaggerate a bit) |
| 13:58.30 | khertan_ | really mer on maemo wiki is define as : Mer is now an inactive project, due to the introduction of the MeeGo (http://www.meego.com) project which shares a similar mission as Mer. Mer was a community research project into an open and openly developed Maemo platform. |
| 13:58.34 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@Maemo/community/contributor/Andy80) |
| 13:59.11 | BCMM | so is meego going to be more open, apart from the whole secure mode thing? |
| 13:59.35 | BCMM | i mean, if one is prepered to just ignore payway DRM apps, will it be a pretty much open distro or what? |
| 13:59.41 | BCMM | ^payware |
| 14:00.51 | sx0n | secure != open |
| 14:00.53 | *** join/#maemo BCMM_ (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 14:01.24 | BCMM | i mean, will it be feasible to just strip out the evil bits, if one isn't interested in paying for apps? |
| 14:02.31 | sx0n | ...but it's not open in sense that i would know the answer :) |
| 14:02.36 | khertan_ | sx0n, secure can be open ... |
| 14:02.47 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: that depends on the bootloader first and foremost |
| 14:03.15 | khertan_ | so will depends on device manufacturers ? |
| 14:03.24 | sx0n | khertan_, my point exactly. it's not tautology |
| 14:03.24 | BCMM | i have no idea how the n900 boot process works |
| 14:03.34 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: if your device's bootloader is designed to start signed kernels only, then there's not anything you can do |
| 14:03.51 | BCMM | well, the n900 is clearly capable of starting arbitrary kernels |
| 14:04.08 | BCMM | i certainly wouldn't use a device that wasn't |
| 14:04.19 | BCMM | i mean, wouldn't get one for myself |
| 14:04.41 | BCMM | stuff like hostmode would've been impossible if the n900's kernel wasn't modifiable |
| 14:04.47 | comawhite | I wonder how a SNES emulator works on maemo |
| 14:05.09 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: this can change any time, with arbitrary future updates. |
| 14:05.34 | BCMM_ | as i said, i have no idea how the boot system works... |
| 14:05.48 | khertan_ | comawhite, really well ... specially with a bluetooth gamepad |
| 14:05.56 | khertan_ | comawhite, tv out works also |
| 14:06.21 | BCMM_ | you mean they could push an update that flashes new firmware to whatever the equivalent of a bios is? |
| 14:06.32 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: yet if e.g. meego is designed to run in secure mode, then switching to open mode will leave you with a custom kernel and none of the proprietary apps running on that |
| 14:07.09 | BCMM_ | yes, i was wondering how much stuff will be secured |
| 14:07.19 | DocScrutinizer | nobody can tell |
| 14:07.21 | khertan_ | DocScrutinizer, just hope that phone feature will not be proprietary :) |
| 14:07.29 | BCMM_ | i mean, will that mean no 3rd party payware, or no phone calls? |
| 14:07.40 | DocScrutinizer | yes, basically |
| 14:07.47 | BCMM_ | heh |
| 14:08.50 | khertan_ | while my n900 run, got the last PyQt and Qt release, i think i ll still use it even if better hw with meego is release |
| 14:09.01 | comawhite | khertan_, do they have a PSX one? |
| 14:09.25 | comawhite | I didn't see it in the manager |
| 14:09.34 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 14:10.07 | khertan_ | comawhite, psx is but i didn't follow if it s work well |
| 14:10.14 | comawhite | ah okay |
| 14:10.53 | comawhite | needs to find a way to buy a n900 that has the US-international keyboard on it |
| 14:10.54 | khertan_ | there is a emulator to run palm pre game using sdl like Need for speed :) |
| 14:12.27 | khertan_ | comawhite, some keyboard variants really sucks |
| 14:13.29 | comawhite | yeah I need the umlauts which the US version doesn't have |
| 14:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | comawhite: I changed the keymat on mine, when the .de qwertz layout annoyed me too much |
| 14:14.01 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:14.01 | comawhite | qwertz is annoying |
| 14:14.19 | DocScrutinizer | the missing direct up/down cursor is annoying |
| 14:15.32 | DocScrutinizer | When I have to press blue-left for up, then entering shift-up gets clumsy and entering blue-up is impossible |
| 14:15.34 | comawhite | mhmm |
| 14:16.33 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@192.100.124.156) |
| 14:16.34 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 14:21.41 | *** join/#maemo Dregs (Dregs@adsl-99-24-189-189.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:21.58 | alterego | I was out walking, testing my GPS app and boom http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101118-121229.png |
| 14:22.01 | alterego | I was abducted by aliens |
| 14:22.36 | Choom | ROFL |
| 14:23.07 | MohammadAG | alterego, messed up portrait and landscape layouts? :P |
| 14:23.35 | edheldil | alterego: it has certain geek appeal :) |
| 14:24.05 | *** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod) |
| 14:24.19 | MohammadAG | alterego, btw, crop the bottom left area and make an icon out of it, looks sexy |
| 14:24.33 | alterego | MohammadAG: :) |
| 14:24.59 | alterego | That was actually a mixture of botched rendering in landscape whilst view switching and also a transition from portrait to landscape. |
| 14:25.09 | alterego | It happened when I was implementing that background image. |
| 14:26.01 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | anybody got a hint for me on how to spy/intercept on the number dialed in phone app? |
| 14:29.36 | DocScrutinizer | like "No No! don't call that number! (call cancelled)" |
| 14:30.08 | E0x | is not a blacklist |
| 14:30.12 | E0x | app already ? |
| 14:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 14:30.23 | E0x | i mean , don't exist a blacklist app already ? |
| 14:30.27 | E0x | i think i saw one |
| 14:30.32 | E0x | in tmo |
| 14:30.32 | DocScrutinizer | yeah gotya |
| 14:30.46 | DocScrutinizer | don't remember any |
| 14:31.20 | alterego | Should be pretty much the same, but with a different dbus signal. |
| 14:31.33 | alterego | I implemented one in Python ages ago, but I never really did anything with it. |
| 14:31.35 | alterego | Lost now .. |
| 14:31.51 | DocScrutinizer | :-( |
| 14:32.21 | DocScrutinizer | I gather when it's actually a dbus msg, then you can't intercept it? |
| 14:33.06 | alterego | signal, sorry ;) |
| 14:33.09 | comawhite | anyone know how to get rid of this annoying warning? "hildon-desktop[8235]: GLIB WARNING ** ClutterX11 - Failed to get XImage of pixmap: e0003a, removing" |
| 14:33.09 | E0x | DocScrutinizer: http://www.mynokiaworld.com/2010/02/block-unwanted-calls-on-your-n900/ |
| 14:33.22 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: :-D |
| 14:33.47 | alterego | That's the wrong way though, you want outgoing right? |
| 14:34.35 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 14:34.37 | E0x | DocScrutinizer: that is old but i am pretty sure i saw something "more new" at tmo |
| 14:34.49 | DocScrutinizer | it's a call-rejecter for inbound |
| 14:35.10 | DocScrutinizer | I need a call-blocker for outbound |
| 14:36.07 | E0x | oh |
| 14:36.13 | E0x | delete the contact |
| 14:36.15 | E0x | :P |
| 14:36.41 | DocScrutinizer | every proper phone has a function to restrict dialable numbers to one group in contacts, or to 10 or 1 specially defined numbers |
| 14:36.49 | *** join/#maemo FranzStrudel (~FranzStru@c-8a8ee155.241-3-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 14:36.52 | DocScrutinizer | E0x: BS |
| 14:37.40 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: the logic is the same |
| 14:37.55 | alterego | You just need to replace the incoming call dbus signal handler to accept the outgoing call dbus signal. |
| 14:38.03 | DocScrutinizer | this function commonly known as children's emergency call. Dial any number, always connect to same destination |
| 14:38.07 | alterego | I might mock something up for you tonight :P |
| 14:38.56 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: anyway how would I *intercept* the msg? I gather I only could immediately cancle the original call and replace it by my own |
| 14:39.30 | alterego | Oh, you want to hijack the call .. |
| 14:39.34 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 14:39.35 | *** join/#maemo f3ew (~F3ew@59.162.86.164) |
| 14:39.43 | DocScrutinizer | or block it |
| 14:39.44 | alterego | Yes, that's what I'd do. |
| 14:39.56 | alterego | Well, I thought you meant block, so that's exactly what I was saying before. |
| 14:40.00 | DocScrutinizer | ugly - leaves room for races |
| 14:40.12 | alterego | How quick can you dial? |
| 14:40.36 | DocScrutinizer | how quick can cellmo establish a call that costs $$$ |
| 14:40.48 | alterego | It wont even establish a call |
| 14:41.04 | alterego | Not if you get the right signal. |
| 14:41.21 | DocScrutinizer | caller-gui will send a call cmd when you hit the green button |
| 14:41.54 | DocScrutinizer | with the complete number you dialed, and cellmo will start to establish that call immediately |
| 14:42.22 | *** join/#maemo dsg (~david@2a02:3c8::211:9ff:fed4:62a5) |
| 14:43.09 | alterego | There's quite a few stages to call establishing. |
| 14:43.16 | alterego | The last of which is the one that costs you money. |
| 14:43.25 | alterego | At least for me .. |
| 14:43.30 | DocScrutinizer | and tbh I'm not certain caller-ui -> cellmo is via dbus at all |
| 14:43.47 | alterego | It's not, you're listening for signals from cellmo |
| 14:43.56 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 14:44.16 | DocScrutinizer | I guess caller-ui is talking to libisi directly |
| 14:44.34 | alterego | If you can press hangup, dispite sluggish N900 callui before a call is established. I'm sure you can manage to do it in code. |
| 14:44.43 | DocScrutinizer | so maybe I could do an evil hack along LD_PRELOAD |
| 14:44.44 | alterego | Maybe. |
| 14:44.55 | alterego | Yes, you could, but what would be the point? |
| 14:45.14 | alterego | It's like a 15 minute script. |
| 14:46.20 | DocScrutinizer | there's a window for races, you can't tell how many milliseconds it takes until cellmo really causes trouble for you, after it got the command to dial a premium number or even a emergency number etc |
| 14:48.27 | alterego | Well, rtcom-call-ui doesn't link directly to libisi |
| 14:48.32 | alterego | I think it uses dbus. |
| 14:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | you might be in a hospital or a dynamite factory where it's generally strictly forbidden to do any calls. Still you might want to allow 911 calls *only* |
| 14:48.45 | alterego | Which makes sense tbh. |
| 14:48.55 | *** join/#maemo Guest9262 (~brownout@wikimedia/brownout) |
| 14:49.00 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:8b2b:fac0:221:5dff:fe95:a18) |
| 14:49.10 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: thanks, that's a great bit of info |
| 14:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | telepathy? |
| 14:49.42 | alterego | I'm still looking into it ;) |
| 14:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 14:49.55 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:49.55 | alterego | Wow, that's a lot of dbus traffic. |
| 14:50.24 | alterego | Looks like telepathy is definitely involved. |
| 14:50.25 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, did this when I investigated contact-specific ringtone shit |
| 14:50.33 | alterego | Yeah, I think that's where it starts. |
| 14:50.52 | DocScrutinizer | telepathy is a libcall or a dbus msg? |
| 14:51.01 | alterego | dbus method_call |
| 14:51.06 | DocScrutinizer | coooool |
| 14:51.21 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe not. Anyway |
| 14:51.43 | alterego | /org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Account/ring/tel/rung com.nokia.Account.Interface.ChannelRequests.Create |
| 14:51.58 | DocScrutinizer | I'd need to intercept the dbus signal/msg from call-ui to telepathy |
| 14:52.09 | alterego | That's /ring/tel/ring btw ;) |
| 14:52.21 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 14:53.03 | DocScrutinizer | alas there's no way to intercept dbus |
| 14:53.24 | DocScrutinizer | except LD_PRELOAD MyOwnDbusLib |
| 14:53.41 | DocScrutinizer | or hacking dbus daemon :-o |
| 14:54.05 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, there's such a weird thing called policies for dbus |
| 14:54.22 | alterego | tbh, if you get the first request, there is a lot of time before cellmo gets it ;) |
| 14:54.54 | DocScrutinizer | I *might* be able to block *all* signals from call-ui to telepathy, and then resend the ones I like from my own proxy |
| 14:55.16 | alterego | Yeah, bit too much effort and I don't think it's necessary :P |
| 14:55.31 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: I like to design a clean architecture, not a "mostly works under normal conditions" |
| 14:55.51 | alterego | Sure, I understand the sentiment. |
| 14:57.22 | alterego | Oh, regarding app activation schemes, I was thinking of 1. Accept payment with related email address. 2. Application startup requires activation with email address. 3. IMEI is used to generate a unique hash based on IMEI and email which is encrypted and sent from my server. |
| 14:57.27 | DocScrutinizer | :-) /etc/dbus-1/system.d/* |
| 14:57.45 | alterego | That way I don't need someone to send me their IMEI for custom binaries/packages. |
| 14:58.24 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: sounds good |
| 14:58.49 | alterego | I think that makes sense, I've not thoroughly thought it all out yet, but the strategy would basically mean I wouldn't ever have the IMEI on my side of the fence, so to speak. |
| 14:59.16 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@81-234-249-242-no52.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:59.17 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:59.51 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 15:00.12 | alterego | It's not perfect, there's the possibility of a race condition ;) |
| 15:00.36 | alterego | Say, gan orders, and you register with his email, is activation would fail. If you managed to do it inbetween his purchase and activation. |
| 15:00.45 | alterego | Oh wait, I had a solution to that. |
| 15:01.05 | alterego | I was going to email an activation code to the email address, then do an activation negotiation and lock. |
| 15:01.32 | alterego | Though I still want to make it as easy as possible for end users. |
| 15:01.40 | nidO | you're going to do an activation check on every startup? |
| 15:02.00 | khertan_ | open navigator ... and put the activation code in the field on your website |
| 15:02.08 | khertan_ | use paypal for paiement |
| 15:02.10 | alterego | nidO: no, once the lock is in place upon activation it wont need to happen again. |
| 15:02.42 | alterego | Activation is my program asking for an unlock code from my server in order to operate on a specific device. |
| 15:02.44 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:03.07 | nidO | so you can only activate based on an email address once? whats the method for accommodating users who change device? |
| 15:03.15 | DocScrutinizer | you generate a crypted version of the email addr and send that back to user as token, he enters this into app to unlock, where app decrypts the token with your public key stored inside app and compares this to the plain text email add user also entered to app |
| 15:03.21 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: ^^ |
| 15:03.33 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, |
| 15:03.45 | alterego | nidO: my descretion. |
| 15:03.59 | alterego | No guarantees of multiple device licenses. |
| 15:04.10 | alterego | Wait, that didn't make sense. |
| 15:04.26 | DocScrutinizer | users could spread the token, but it's worthless without the matching email addr, and users will usually hesitate to spread that |
| 15:04.31 | alterego | I mean, I'm not going to guarantee that I'll let you use multiple devices, but I might. |
| 15:04.48 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: my thoughts exactly :) |
| 15:04.57 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: and it's traceable ;) |
| 15:05.00 | nidO | mainly talking about changing device not using several, will people have to manually contact you if their n900 dies and they replace it? |
| 15:05.01 | alterego | Kind of. |
| 15:05.09 | alterego | nidO: yes. |
| 15:06.00 | alterego | nidO: in the event of my death, I'm sure whoever cracks my scheme will have versions on various torrent sites indexed at tmo :P |
| 15:06.04 | DocScrutinizer | with my scheme they don't need to. Just enter their mail addr and token to new device |
| 15:06.20 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: oh, I see what you're saying there. |
| 15:06.32 | alterego | Yeah, I was going to lock email to IMEI, but token is a good idea. |
| 15:06.58 | alterego | Basically an authentication user/pass combination. |
| 15:07.03 | DocScrutinizer | token == crypted email addr |
| 15:07.06 | alterego | Which gains the lock. |
| 15:07.35 | nidO | people lose emailed information though, a method of on-app requesting to resend the token to email would be very useful if you go that route |
| 15:07.47 | alterego | nidO: meh, |
| 15:07.54 | DocScrutinizer | then the app, on verifying token matches addr entered, it locks itself to IMEI |
| 15:08.06 | alterego | nidO: I'll make a request form on the webpage. |
| 15:08.15 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yes, exactly! :) |
| 15:08.17 | *** join/#maemo Flanbix (~Flanbix@w114-210.fenner.hull.ac.uk) |
| 15:08.38 | alterego | Though, that step may become unnecessary. |
| 15:08.55 | alterego | I want first run to ping my server and validate that the username has purchased and is not blacklisted. |
| 15:09.05 | alterego | Then afterwards it doesn't matter. |
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| 15:09.19 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 15:10.31 | DocScrutinizer | if locked-to-IMEI and (IMEI-lock == actual-IMEI) then start-real-app; else start-token-verification-and-lock-to-IMEI; |
| 15:11.57 | alterego | Should be a fun little project. |
| 15:12.01 | alterego | I'll try and release it FOSS :) |
| 15:12.07 | alterego | client/server mechanism. |
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| 15:12.46 | DocScrutinizer | check both conditions locked-to-IMEI(), and (IMEI-lock == actual-IMEI), on a few random places in your code. Change these checks from version to version |
| 15:13.06 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, already thought of that ;) |
| 15:13.40 | alterego | Needs to be inline code aswell, don't want someone cracking a function |
| 15:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:13.57 | DocScrutinizer | should be easy enough |
| 15:14.00 | alterego | I was thinking of all of that last night whilst trying to drift off to sleep. |
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| 15:15.10 | MohammadAG | alterego, I mentioned it once, and I'll mention it again |
| 15:15.19 | MohammadAG | if you're using dbus, someone can fake the dbus reply |
| 15:15.28 | alterego | Who's using dbus? |
| 15:15.54 | alterego | I use dbus to detect screen lock. |
| 15:15.57 | MohammadAG | how do you check the IMEI? |
| 15:16.06 | alterego | Dunno, not implemented yet. |
| 15:16.11 | alterego | I wouldn't use dbus though :P |
| 15:16.20 | MohammadAG | there's no other way afaik |
| 15:16.28 | alterego | Don't have to use IMEI either |
| 15:16.43 | alterego | We're using IMEI as a placeholder text for "some unique machine id thingy". |
| 15:16.47 | DocScrutinizer | there is, e.g pnatd. But honestly it doesn't matter much |
| 15:17.03 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 15:17.43 | *** part/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.12.106) |
| 15:17.49 | DocScrutinizer | and the point is not the lock to this particular IMEI, but rather the link from activation to email-addr |
| 15:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | anybody publishing a executable with activation and IMEI faker would disclose his email-addr |
| 15:20.05 | *** join/#maemo rye_raptor (~quassel@83.229.6.19) |
| 15:20.59 | DocScrutinizer | so strictly spoken it's not even mandatory to lock the app to imei, it's just an additional 'help' for user to rethink sharing his executable |
| 15:21.01 | *** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@82-168-81-130.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 15:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | the basic security function is the executable incorporates a watermark that holds user's email addr |
| 15:22.25 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@217.92.74.203) |
| 15:22.46 | Zucca | Hm. Where can I finf some kind of error log on Maemo 5? |
| 15:22.52 | DocScrutinizer | and any "check for update" call could nuke a pirated version |
| 15:23.06 | Zucca | My cam appa dies as soon as I open the lens cover. |
| 15:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | Zucca: uninstall fcam |
| 15:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | I suppose you got power kernel |
| 15:23.56 | Zucca | Ok. fcam didn't caused this before. |
| 15:24.13 | Zucca | Yes. Powerkernel because of Mobile Hotspot. |
| 15:24.27 | DocScrutinizer | you got a new kernel, and the fcam drivers don't match it |
| 15:24.45 | Zucca | uninstalls fcam and its drivers. |
| 15:25.19 | DocScrutinizer | cya folks |
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| 16:26.01 | ieatlint | woo... just spent 2h learning jpeglib to replace gd in an app, and managed to cut processing time by 20% and lower memory usage from 91.8mb to 278kb |
| 16:27.10 | FauxFaux | Sounds like an easy gd bug to fix. :) |
| 16:27.26 | ieatlint | not a bug |
| 16:27.28 | *** join/#maemo guysoft42 (~guysoft@109.65.38.170) |
| 16:28.04 | ieatlint | i'm analyzing colour data of jpeg images, so i can read 1 line at a time... gd isn't designed for this, and by default loads the entire raw image into memory |
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| 16:31.40 | Jay_BEE | gm to all |
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| 16:41.57 | ShadowJK | grr |
| 16:42.16 | ShadowJK | two APs with same ssid, and N900 doesn't "roam" |
| 16:42.27 | ShadowJK | ponders |
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| 16:44.47 | CableTwitch | Both APs have the same security method, and the same key, right? |
| 16:44.55 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: pathological situation, Roaming between APs with same SSID is considered intra-wlan handover, and needs support from AP to propagate regisration to the network from one AP to another |
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| 16:45.47 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: also both APs need to share same "wired" network and same DHCP server |
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| 16:46.56 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I don't know if N900 wlan supports this client side, but for sure it won't work if AP side doesn't fully support it |
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| 16:47.53 | ieatlint | i've used wifi roaming on the n900 at a couple conferences... unencrypted only though |
| 16:48.26 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.113.125.89) |
| 16:48.50 | ieatlint | the client was smart enough to hop bssids seemingly... |
| 16:49.08 | DocScrutinizer | simple wifi roaming isn't anything special. your client detects there's an allowed AP with better signal, and associates to that new AP, incl AUTH, DHCP and all |
| 16:49.13 | ieatlint | but there was no real renegotiation, as no key auth, and my dhcp lease was still vaid |
| 16:49.33 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 16:49.40 | ieatlint | valid |
| 16:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | ok, so I assume this was a correctly set up multi-AP wlan |
| 16:51.00 | DocScrutinizer | and it seems to indicate the network manager of whatever system you used handled this correctly |
| 16:51.18 | ieatlint | eh, worked on my n900 and my laptop with wpa_supplicant |
| 16:51.29 | ieatlint | but my dhcp client is not connected to wpa_supplicant |
| 16:51.40 | DocScrutinizer | DHCP lease handover between unrelated APs won't work though, for obvious reasons |
| 16:51.51 | ieatlint | hey, it could work, by chance :P |
| 16:52.16 | ieatlint | and yeah, the network was setup properly |
| 16:52.38 | DocScrutinizer | it could also work by asking DHCP server of new AP to give me identical lease |
| 16:52.48 | ieatlint | but my point is that dhcp i don't believe reconfirms its lease when hopping |
| 16:53.07 | ieatlint | yeah, any dhcp servers would need to be linked, so as not to issue conflicting leases |
| 16:53.18 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 16:54.54 | ieatlint | anyway, i definitely maintained connections on my n900 without any cell signal and walking well beyond the range of any single ap, so i would say it does support roaming on at least unencrypted networks |
| 16:55.12 | DocScrutinizer | this whole topic is a real PITA when you try to share your neighbours' APs and they all kept the default setup like SSID="WLAN" |
| 16:55.57 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 16:56.17 | ieatlint | if you're talking a small amount of APs and a small number of clients, just use the poor man solution: dhcp pools that don't overlap :P |
| 16:56.25 | CableTwitch | Thats why you do them a favour by breaking in, and setting it all more securely XD |
| 16:57.02 | *** join/#maemo myuu (~myu@pool-72-80-236-189.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:57.12 | ieatlint | or setup a host someone on the internet, and change their default route to go through you so you can monitor what they do by remote |
| 16:57.22 | ieatlint | bleh, s/someone/somewhere |
| 16:57.36 | *** join/#maemo fecub (~fecub@perseus7.hs-niederrhein.de) |
| 16:57.36 | DocScrutinizer | ...which I actually did occasionally, as that poor guy had the whole config of his AP exposed, including phone numbers dialed etc |
| 16:58.34 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: heh, nice idea |
| 16:59.08 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@32.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:59.11 | myuu | hey quick question |
| 16:59.19 | myuu | what do I replace vi with in pr 1.2 |
| 16:59.24 | myuu | when enabling red pill mode |
| 16:59.34 | DocScrutinizer | errr? |
| 16:59.55 | joga | replacing vi? with what |
| 17:00.01 | DocScrutinizer | why? |
| 17:00.02 | myuu | another command id guess |
| 17:00.11 | *** join/#maemo Muiltr (~MLINTH@adsl-80-199-141.mcn.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:00.19 | myuu | the file just isnt there according to the wiki |
| 17:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | and what that got to do with red-pill? |
| 17:00.38 | myuu | you need the command to enable it |
| 17:00.45 | myuu | at least to my knowledge |
| 17:00.52 | DocScrutinizer | aaaah |
| 17:00.54 | myuu | if there is another way id love to know |
| 17:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | you're asking for any proper editor in PR1.2? |
| 17:01.14 | ieatlint | you're missing vi in pr1.2? |
| 17:01.15 | *** join/#maemo MikeK (~chatzilla@93.164.179.114) |
| 17:01.30 | nidO | uh if i understand what you're saying, if you cant figure out using another text editor than vi you probably dont want to be using red pill... |
| 17:01.33 | myuu | so if I get a better editor it should come with vi? |
| 17:01.46 | DocScrutinizer | nidO: ACK |
| 17:01.48 | ieatlint | vi is an editor |
| 17:02.04 | myuu | oh what |
| 17:02.06 | alterego | What support do we have in Qt for finding prefered mass storage? |
| 17:02.08 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (~ph5@e178193007.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:02.09 | alterego | For applications? |
| 17:02.19 | myuu | ahhh ok |
| 17:02.24 | ieatlint | alterego: QDesktopServices::storageLocation |
| 17:02.33 | myuu | I think ill go get an editor then |
| 17:02.34 | ieatlint | might have the method wrong... double check that |
| 17:02.41 | alterego | Thanks :) |
| 17:02.48 | alterego | Yeah, that's a good help |
| 17:03.24 | ieatlint | oh, right, storageLocation() takes a type argument for things like data/temp/etc |
| 17:03.25 | DocScrutinizer | myuu: check mc (midnight commander) |
| 17:03.39 | DocScrutinizer | myuu: comes with built in editor |
| 17:03.42 | alterego | ieatlint: yeah |
| 17:03.45 | DocScrutinizer | myuu: (F3) |
| 17:03.50 | alterego | I'll give it a go and see if it works okay. |
| 17:04.09 | myuu | even better |
| 17:04.27 | DocScrutinizer | err F4, aka ESC;4 |
| 17:05.13 | DocScrutinizer | still nidO's point stands |
| 17:05.34 | DocScrutinizer | you probably dont want to be using red pill... |
| 17:05.34 | myuu | im only getting a few things |
| 17:05.39 | myuu | I dont want to brick my phone |
| 17:05.56 | myuu | trust me im not doing any power user stuff till I learn more |
| 17:05.58 | CableTwitch | Hmm, I was going to ask that... Its Esc+number for the F keys on the N900? |
| 17:06.20 | DocScrutinizer | myuu: :-D it's your phone :-P |
| 17:06.23 | CableTwitch | Or is it app specific? |
| 17:06.50 | myuu | yeah but its good to learn first, thanks for the help guys ill stick around |
| 17:07.24 | GAN900 | How is setting up a headless NAS a completely alien expectation. . . . |
| 17:07.36 | alterego | "/home/developer/.local/share/data/" |
| 17:07.40 | alterego | What an aweful location. |
| 17:07.44 | alterego | ~awful. |
| 17:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: depends on the target platform :-P |
| 17:08.05 | ieatlint | alterego: you didn't set your app name is why |
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| 17:08.25 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what internal battery does the N900 use? |
| 17:08.28 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: probably for a timex watch it's quite alien |
| 17:08.29 | alterego | ieatlint: oh, I didn't add rx/columbus on the end. |
| 17:08.33 | alterego | That's still bad. |
| 17:08.36 | ieatlint | the default location will be ~/.local/share/data/orgName/appName/ |
| 17:08.51 | DocScrutinizer | mahthat backup battery? |
| 17:08.59 | alterego | It's a terrible place to put my tracklogs ... |
| 17:09.05 | MohammadAG | the one for time DocScrutinizer |
| 17:09.06 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, FreeNAS on Intel SS4200. |
| 17:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ^^ |
| 17:09.13 | ieatlint | eh... doesn't clobber anything, and invisible to user in theory |
| 17:09.32 | The_Tall1 | Hi is here somebody using geos-3.2.2 on the n810? |
| 17:09.36 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: unclear, seems similar to the ne FreeRunner is using. Also seems similarly crappy |
| 17:09.42 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it's called mahthat? |
| 17:09.52 | ieatlint | the module/method also works across windows/osx/symbian/linux, so convenient for uniformity |
| 17:09.54 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 17:10.00 | MohammadAG | what's the FreeRunner using? |
| 17:10.02 | DocScrutinizer | typo+ETAB |
| 17:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what's your question? |
| 17:10.56 | DocScrutinizer | what info do you need? |
| 17:11.06 | alterego | I think I prefer /home/user/.cache/rx/columbus for my logs |
| 17:11.08 | MohammadAG | what replacement battery should I get |
| 17:11.16 | *** join/#maemo w00t_ (~w00t@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 17:11.21 | CableTwitch | One that works. |
| 17:11.29 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: replacement batteries are also dead after 3 months |
| 17:11.33 | MohammadAG | alterego, or chown user:users /opt/rx and use that :) |
| 17:11.39 | alterego | pfft |
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| 17:11.45 | alterego | That's not UNIX :P |
| 17:11.45 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, so? I'm stuck with an N900 that doesn't save time? |
| 17:11.49 | CableTwitch | How did you manage to kill your mobo-battery, Mo? |
| 17:11.56 | DocScrutinizer | Some users of FreeRunners had good results with using a 1F goldcap |
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| 17:12.44 | MohammadAG | CableTwitch, no idea, it just forgets time now |
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| 17:12.54 | CableTwitch | Weird. |
| 17:12.58 | DocScrutinizer | it's a really huge still small formfactor capacitor, that will backup time for several hours |
| 17:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | so while it's significantly worse than a good backup battery, it will not break and after 3 months it's superior |
| 17:13.44 | CableTwitch | Wedge a CR232 in there :O) |
| 17:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | I got ~50 backup battery spare parts here, all unused, all broken just from storing them 1 year without refresh charging |
| 17:16.09 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 17:16.16 | DocScrutinizer | if you pay postage you can get them all :-P |
| 17:16.49 | xnt14 | How does the battery lose charge after only 3 months? |
| 17:16.49 | DocScrutinizer | or you buy a similarly broken spare at your local electronics shoppe |
| 17:17.34 | DocScrutinizer | it loses sealing, it's leaking, it breaks internally from deep discharge or from heat while soldering or whatnot |
| 17:17.57 | DocScrutinizer | fubar by design |
| 17:18.04 | DocScrutinizer | forget about it |
| 17:18.10 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 17:18.15 | xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: Ah, I see... |
| 17:18.22 | ShadowJK | Same wired network, same dhcp server |
| 17:18.36 | ShadowJK | WAP and same key |
| 17:18.54 | ShadowJK | but they don't talk with eachother |
| 17:18.56 | CableTwitch | WAP? Not overly fussed about security then? ;O) |
| 17:18.56 | DocScrutinizer | wap will need handover of credentials as well |
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| 17:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | WPA? |
| 17:19.44 | CableTwitch | got confused with WEP. |
| 17:19.50 | CableTwitch | I guess he means WPA, yes. |
| 17:20.02 | ShadowJK | ssh sessions survive fine, etc, because I get the same IP of course... but the os still signals browser and telepathy to close all connections |
| 17:20.08 | DocScrutinizer | WEP *might* work. WPA won't |
| 17:20.36 | CableTwitch | Damn this jetlag. On third of my though processes are still in Hawaii, another third are still wandering around Chicago O'Hare, and the remaining lump is here, confused as hell. |
| 17:21.16 | ShadowJK | yeah I meant wpa |
| 17:21.37 | ShadowJK | Annoying this is that this would "just work" if Maemo5 didn't tell apps to close connections |
| 17:21.58 | ShadowJK | works fine with xchat that ignores those signals :) |
| 17:22.12 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: It would, but then it would break on properly set up WLANs |
| 17:22.47 | ShadowJK | the cisco:inksys ap do |
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| 17:23.42 | ShadowJK | esn't seem to have any inter-ap protocol support |
| 17:23.42 | ShadowJK | but this cheap chinese one I have does |
| 17:23.42 | ShadowJK | unfortunately I can't find a source for them anymore :( |
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| 17:40.17 | MohammadAG | i really like the haptic feedback on the N8 |
| 17:40.31 | MohammadAG | it's not a click-vibrate thing |
| 17:41.43 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:44.37 | myuu | I wish the option for it was in the right place |
| 17:44.51 | myuu | hey are you the guy that wrote that ps3 freedom app? |
| 17:45.07 | myuu | **option to disable |
| 17:45.14 | MohammadAG | here |
| 17:45.35 | myuu | great job man I thought that was really cool even before I had my phone |
| 17:45.43 | MohammadAG | the app was written by me, the modules by KaKaRoTo |
| 17:45.58 | MohammadAG | so the app wouldn't be functional without his work :) |
| 17:46.11 | myuu | ofc |
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| 17:54.52 | RST38h | Well. Moo all. |
| 17:55.50 | SpeedEvil | Moo to you! |
| 17:56.06 | SpeedEvil | MooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO0000000000ooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo! |
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| 17:59.35 | Venemo | hey guys :) |
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| 18:16.32 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3Cp-x_bu8 |
| 18:16.54 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@94-224-242-139.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell RST38h about moohoho |
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| 18:47.31 | slonopotamus | so, according to my observations and internets, python is ~60x slower than C. |
| 18:47.48 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, depends |
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| 18:48.43 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer, sure, but on average ppl get 60x |
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| 18:49.23 | slonopotamus | has 80x in one particular program, for example |
| 18:50.47 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer, it can be faster is small programs where large amount of things is done using builtins (written in c, obviously) |
| 18:51.15 | slonopotamus | i mean, large in % |
| 18:51.26 | ShadowJK | Yeah stuff starts getting slow once you're doing other stuff than just connecting things together in python |
| 18:52.23 | slonopotamus | ShadowJK, startup is another issue. launching python program means reading several tens/hundreds of .py files |
| 18:52.37 | ShadowJK | Yeah |
| 18:52.50 | DocScrutinizer | python is OO and it's dynamic, so it's pretty clear what things will be slow in python and which are basically no diff to C |
| 18:53.07 | ShadowJK | It's somewhat amazing that MPlayer as a single 20-something megabyte executable starts almost instantly on N900 :-) |
| 18:53.14 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer, only c builtins are no diff. |
| 18:53.21 | lcuk | ShadowJK, not really |
| 18:54.17 | ShadowJK | ld.so has to do less work, I guess |
| 18:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: starting as in "display some nice stuff to X"? |
| 18:54.52 | ShadowJK | Starting as in do anything at all |
| 18:54.55 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer, even trivial stuff like integer math/string operations already have big difference |
| 18:55.43 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:56.05 | lcuk | slonopotamus, there is a thread on tmo about optimising/speeding up python |
| 18:56.23 | lcuk | and Noobmonkey halved startup time by combination of things |
| 18:56.23 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: that's because they are not trivial in python. If you're going to implement all the associated hidden runtime checks for value out of bounds, and whatnot, in C, I guess the diff gets less extreme |
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| 18:56.33 | lcuk | and managed to optimise certain things |
| 18:56.40 | slonopotamus | lcuk, whatever you do with it, it will never be close to c |
| 18:56.42 | lcuk | its easy to have a bloated python file |
| 18:56.48 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-237-110.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 18:56.52 | lcuk | slonopotamus, agreed in some respects |
| 18:57.03 | CableTwitch | Hmm. How would one replace the Nokia image/video with something else? |
| 18:57.11 | lcuk | but for something like a database processor or something as DocScrutinizer said that is using library functions mostly |
| 18:57.11 | ShadowJK | out of bounds checks are hardware-accelerated in C, they're called segmentation fault. Only problem is you usually get the signal ages after the out of bounds access took place ;D |
| 18:57.13 | lcuk | it wont matter |
| 18:57.28 | lcuk | because the binding glue takes up a fraction of the actual time |
| 18:57.48 | lcuk | ShadowJK, bounds checks in c still require a function call |
| 18:58.07 | lcuk | in a tight loop in c including function jumps cause all sorts of cache misses etc |
| 18:58.08 | *** join/#maemo bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 18:58.22 | lcuk | used to optimise for the 680ec20 with a 256byte cache :) |
| 18:58.41 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's not exactly correct. adding two maxint won't cause a segfault |
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| 18:59.22 | lcuk | slonopotamus, when you start doing processing in python itself it gets slow |
| 18:59.38 | lcuk | shedskin exists and afaik can produce a fairly optimal class representation from python code |
| 18:59.51 | slonopotamus | lcuk, that's what i said. python programs can only be fast if they're in c. |
| 18:59.51 | lcuk | for when you really need to optimise it down |
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| 19:00.24 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: honestly, what are we talking about? |
| 19:00.24 | lcuk | slonopotamus, thats been the same since the days of arexx |
| 19:00.35 | lcuk | i couldnt hope to process whole images using it |
| 19:00.44 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: nobody thinks number crunching in python is a brilliant idea |
| 19:00.45 | lcuk | but passing the filenames/memory locations between apps |
| 19:00.51 | ShadowJK | once processed images in shell script ;-) |
| 19:00.53 | lcuk | to have them process it is simples |
| 19:00.57 | lcuk | lol ShadowJK |
| 19:01.04 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer, i just wonder why python is used in maemo at all |
| 19:01.05 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.144.114.53) |
| 19:01.16 | DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with imgmagic? |
| 19:01.25 | lcuk | slonopotamus, go look in the archives for time forever |
| 19:01.30 | lcuk | shell scripts do the same thing |
| 19:01.53 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: because it's easy to code, easy to maintain, and the "executables" are fairly small |
| 19:02.15 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, speak for yourself, I have a 200kb ascii art comment header for every file |
| 19:02.17 | lcuk | :P |
| 19:02.19 | ShadowJK | once also processed .wav in quickbasic |
| 19:02.20 | RST38h | tends to disagree about 'easy to maintain' |
| 19:02.32 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 19:02.33 | *** join/#maemo troulouliou (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou) |
| 19:02.40 | RST38h | A complex program in Python is rather messy |
| 19:02.53 | lcuk | a rather complex program in ANY LANGUAGE is rather messy |
| 19:02.56 | RST38h | especially when "object oriented" fetures are used |
| 19:02.57 | thp | Python is expressive! :) |
| 19:03.00 | troulouliou | hi , i can not find a clear solution for Error opening terminal: xterm when installing the sdk |
| 19:03.02 | lcuk | the key thing is "rather complex" |
| 19:03.11 | ShadowJK | I've only used python on Symbian, and that's because it was the only relatively sane thing available, that tells you how crazy it is |
| 19:03.15 | RST38h | lcuk: No, you can write relatively good code in C++ for example |
| 19:03.18 | RST38h | lcuk: (see qt) |
| 19:03.27 | lcuk | RST38h, you can write clear concise code in python too |
| 19:03.39 | RST38h | lcuk: But writing a lot of code in Python while keeping it readable is a difficult task |
| 19:03.42 | *** join/#maemo blackthorne` (~user@bl14-221-150.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 19:03.43 | blackthorne` | hi |
| 19:03.45 | lcuk | not really |
| 19:03.47 | lcuk | its OO just the same |
| 19:03.50 | thp | RST38h: i tend to disagree |
| 19:03.53 | lcuk | thats coding style and expectations |
| 19:03.56 | lcuk | same as any project |
| 19:04.00 | blackthorne` | i'm looking for some extraction/compression util so that I can unzip files in my N900 |
| 19:04.13 | lcuk | blackthorne`, you tried installing unzip? |
| 19:04.30 | joga | the binary's called "miniunzip" |
| 19:04.39 | blackthorne` | I didn't find anything with that name |
| 19:04.42 | blackthorne` | to install, I mean |
| 19:05.04 | lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/ |
| 19:05.14 | joga | zlib-bin provides it |
| 19:05.15 | lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip-fm/ |
| 19:05.17 | troulouliou | does anybody have suffer from Error opening terminal: xterm when installing the sdk ? |
| 19:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: where to look for a few manual pages / docs / specs to understand how caller-ui is triggering a outbound call via telepathy (if that's a valid assumption at all)? |
| 19:05.28 | joga | oh so there's also a proper unzip for maemo eh |
| 19:05.30 | joga | :) |
| 19:05.33 | blackthorne` | joga: how can I install it? |
| 19:05.40 | joga | blackthorne`, with apt-get |
| 19:05.41 | lcuk | troulouliou, not sure |
| 19:05.44 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, not sure |
| 19:06.04 | joga | blackthorne` or enable extras-testing and install unzip |
| 19:06.05 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@178-190-187-121.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:06.05 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, something is triggering call-ui on its own? |
| 19:06.31 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: sorry? |
| 19:06.52 | lcuk | you want to understand how caller-ui is triggering a call |
| 19:06.58 | lcuk | is it triggering it without your input? |
| 19:06.58 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 19:07.12 | blackthorne` | I think I need root access to install that |
| 19:07.20 | lcuk | blackthorne`, unzip is already in maemo extras |
| 19:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | no, of course not. I want to understand what's happening when I hit green button |
| 19:07.26 | lcuk | no need for anything else |
| 19:07.33 | lcuk | its likely you will already have it installed |
| 19:07.48 | lcuk | oh crap |
| 19:07.50 | lcuk | misread |
| 19:07.54 | lcuk | you will need -testing |
| 19:08.13 | lcuk | joga, you can read :P |
| 19:08.33 | joga | lcuk yeah I learned it when I was a kid and have been enjoying it since |
| 19:08.34 | joga | :) |
| 19:08.41 | lcuk | \o/ |
| 19:09.18 | lcuk | i guess i need to increase coffee intake |
| 19:09.29 | blackthorne` | lcuk: should I get maemo-extras from the package manager? |
| 19:09.36 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 19:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I want to find a 'hook' to plumb some call mangling into normal call initiation, like rejecting particular call destinations etc, based on the number dialed |
| 19:10.43 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, did i see an app to do call blocking etc recently |
| 19:10.54 | lcuk | ie, look at how it does it |
| 19:11.02 | DocScrutinizer | heh, sure that wasn't inbound? |
| 19:11.10 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, idk? |
| 19:11.29 | DocScrutinizer | I didn't see any outbound |
| 19:11.31 | lcuk | never needed to block outbound locations before |
| 19:11.41 | lcuk | i have self control :P |
| 19:11.58 | DocScrutinizer | you never gave your phone to your kids :-P |
| 19:12.05 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, tablet mode |
| 19:12.12 | DocScrutinizer | not good enough |
| 19:12.14 | lcuk | complete blocking of all cellmo activities |
| 19:12.25 | DocScrutinizer | not the plan |
| 19:12.34 | lcuk | you want a kid ux |
| 19:12.40 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 19:12.42 | lcuk | to allow calling mummy and daddy :) |
| 19:12.46 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 19:12.53 | lcuk | but not the 0898 premium number they saw on tv |
| 19:12.59 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 19:13.18 | lcuk | perfectly reasonable |
| 19:14.04 | DocScrutinizer | so how to intercept and mangle/modify/reject a initiate-call("4711") ? |
| 19:14.06 | lcuk | i think now it would be hacks, it might be more feasible now to look towards #meego and see if anything similar is in the spec |
| 19:14.23 | lcuk | and if not work towards getting it in? |
| 19:14.27 | RST38h | dials the mummies |
| 19:14.39 | lcuk | lol RST38h |
| 19:14.45 | lcuk | theres an scp about that :P |
| 19:14.52 | RST38h | number? =) |
| 19:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in getting this nto an OS that never will come for N900 officially |
| 19:15.49 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, so not interested in getting it into the subsystem that will be used on many devices for a foreseeable period? |
| 19:16.10 | *** join/#maemo njsf (~njsf@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 19:16.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'd rather hack telepathy or dbus than wait for meego to come with it for free |
| 19:17.02 | lcuk | well you may just end up having to reimplement hacks later rather than looking now and seeing if its at least considered |
| 19:17.35 | lcuk | you have said about many things regarding maemo that you would have done them differently |
| 19:17.35 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I'm developing for present time, for present users having actual demands. Not for a future device with a future OS that might hit the end user 2012 |
| 19:17.45 | lcuk | well, meego is being built now |
| 19:18.03 | DocScrutinizer | well, thanks for the info |
| 19:18.07 | lcuk | \o |
| 19:18.11 | *** join/#maemo FranzStrudel (~FranzStru@c-996ce253.127-1-64736c21.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:19.30 | DocScrutinizer | tell me how many apps for meego you plan to *sell* until may 2011 |
| 19:19.36 | thp | lcuk: we don't know much about meego handset, so yea - DocScrutinizer is right - better hack on maemo 5 stuff right now and care about meego when there is something to see :p |
| 19:19.45 | thp | +h |
| 19:20.18 | RST38h | thp: +1 |
| 19:20.34 | RST38h | thp: Even the UI toolkit is mostly in limbo right now |
| 19:20.35 | thp | especially for low-level stuff.. seems like the app story is finally clearing with qml (although there i'm sorely missing qt components..) |
| 19:21.01 | RST38h | thp: well, it will only become clear when they standardize on the basic components |
| 19:21.13 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08A24B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:21.37 | thp | yes, which will hopefully come in the form of cross-platform, reusable qt components for qml |
| 19:22.09 | RST38h | which will not be compatible with the traditional qwidget based widgets |
| 19:22.24 | RST38h | a well as meegotouch widgets based on the canvas |
| 19:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | anybody else here able to share some pointers to telepathy and how maemo(!) call-ui initiates a call? |
| 19:23.23 | thp | qml is nicer for rich interfaces than qwidget. and it has states and transitions. and javascript ;) |
| 19:23.34 | thp | s/rich/touch/ |
| 19:24.47 | thp | DocScrutinizer: maybe dbus-monitor + initiating a call manually gives some insight there? |
| 19:25.00 | *** part/#maemo njsf (~njsf@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 19:25.02 | RST38h | thp: ...and now, once we have loaded all this shit onboard, let us try taking offf... |
| 19:25.03 | DocScrutinizer | you bet that's what I did some 15min ago |
| 19:25.06 | Bash1 | hey guys quick question, what is the full name for the N900 web browser? |
| 19:25.12 | *** join/#maemo BigRichie (~BigRichie@79-134-120-30.cust.suomicom.fi) |
| 19:25.28 | thp | DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS |
| 19:25.36 | SpeedEvil1 | microb bash1 |
| 19:25.49 | thp | RST38h: ;) |
| 19:25.50 | BigRichie | where i can ask about xchat irc client on maemo 5? |
| 19:26.07 | SpeedEvil1 | BigRichie: Here works. |
| 19:26.07 | thp | don't ask where to ask to ask, just ask |
| 19:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | thp: this tells how to initiate a call, but it doesn't shed a light on how call-ui does it |
| 19:26.14 | SpeedEvil1 | is logged in using xchat. |
| 19:26.15 | Bash1 | ok ty |
| 19:27.12 | thp | DocScrutinizer: sorry, don't know any specifics about that :) but be sure to add any info you can find to the wiki =) |
| 19:27.40 | *** join/#maemo NGNUton-B (~gnuton@80-186-125-62.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:28.05 | Jay_BEE | tmobile (usa) doesnt allow ident port so I'm unable to connect to irc.freenode.net using xchat irc on maemo5 |
| 19:28.12 | DocScrutinizer | thp: from dbus-monitor I gather telepathy itself is emitting a signal when it received a request to establish a call. I don't see this request from call-ui to telepathy on dbus though |
| 19:28.53 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface2 (~user5330@148-18-9.connect.netcom.no) |
| 19:29.15 | thp | DocScrutinizer: MCE has sig_call_state_ind - maybe that's what you are looking for? |
| 19:29.19 | Jay_BEE | i understand there is a python script to enable sasl for xchat, but I'm unable to load it in maemo5 |
| 19:29.28 | DocScrutinizer | thp: that's why I asked lcuk (a collabora employee and so supposed to maybe know a bit more about telepathy (c) collabora http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/) |
| 19:30.01 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@adsl-93-54-59.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:30.43 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 19:31.06 | *** join/#maemo BigRichie (~BigRichie@79-134-120-30.cust.suomicom.fi) |
| 19:31.28 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 19:31.39 | johnsq | Hi |
| 19:31.48 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 19:32.01 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, if every person in every company had to know everything the world would be a cool place |
| 19:32.30 | Venemo | BigRichie: what about it? |
| 19:33.26 | BigRichie | i want to change the color of text... |
| 19:33.31 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@82-168-81-130.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 19:33.44 | BigRichie | notice command text... |
| 19:34.18 | mikki-kun | BigRichie: the one in xterm? top bar --> settings |
| 19:34.36 | BigRichie | i dont know which one it is in the preferences->colors |
| 19:34.40 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: that's why I used the terms "maybe" and "a bit". Any pointer (except to meego and next years' revolutionary new things for users) whould have been appreciated |
| 19:35.44 | DocScrutinizer | users are asking me for an according app for maemo on N900, not for meego on N9 |
| 19:35.54 | *** join/#maemo CutMeOwnThroat (~k@unaffiliated/iridos) |
| 19:36.13 | DocScrutinizer | and no, I'm not doing this for the mere fun of it |
| 19:36.48 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: users are asking you for what app? |
| 19:37.50 | mikki-kun | notice text? |
| 19:38.29 | BigRichie | yea... when u use notice command for me can barely see the text |
| 19:38.30 | mikki-kun | X Terminal --> Font (leftone changes foreground, right one background) |
| 19:39.05 | BigRichie | i can i ment |
| 19:39.44 | blackthorne` | bye |
| 19:39.48 | pablo2 | N900 does have support to QtMultimediaKit 1.1 ?? |
| 19:40.47 | BigRichie | there is mIRC colors numbered 1-15 and local colors numbered 16-31... |
| 19:41.03 | BigRichie | using xchat irc client |
| 19:42.13 | BigRichie | i couldnt find anything from web for maemo 5 os xchat app... only pc os's |
| 19:42.15 | mikki-kun | ahhhh.... oh, that one puzzled me as well previously... i changed to irssi and it works like a charm |
| 19:42.28 | mikki-kun | bu it should work the same as on pc |
| 19:42.37 | BigRichie | mhh... |
| 19:42.38 | mikki-kun | it is a port, hence it should be having the same layout |
| 19:42.51 | BigRichie | mhh |
| 19:43.39 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@2.91.106.130) |
| 19:43.46 | BigRichie | there is guides to change themes... like u know its abit different looking on maemo then on pc |
| 19:43.51 | Venemo | BigRichie: you could try Communi for an IRC client, but it is not yet fully complete for Maemo 5 |
| 19:44.05 | BigRichie | that text i can barely see... |
| 19:44.24 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: see, in meego TSG et al there seems little interest in my suggestions, and though it might be fun to help building a better meego and avoiding there all the shortcommings we see in maemo, it's still a rather starving art to engage there. |
| 19:44.38 | BigRichie | and i would like to change the color of it... :/ |
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| 19:49.54 | lcuk | well DocScrutinizer best I can suggest is ask on the ML since its seemingly not a standard operation |
| 19:50.05 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
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| 19:55.54 | *** join/#maemo RevdKathy (~RevdKathy@5ad0c391.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:57.16 | *** join/#maemo tilppis (~tilppis@89-166-4-136.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 20:00.39 | Venemo | hello RevdKathy |
| 20:00.59 | RevdKathy | Hello Venemo |
| 20:01.02 | Venemo | I read your blog yesterday about the MeeGo stuff |
| 20:01.03 | RevdKathy | How are you? |
| 20:01.09 | RevdKathy | Ahh :) |
| 20:01.25 | Venemo | well, thanks for asking :) |
| 20:01.30 | Venemo | how are you? |
| 20:01.33 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@86.57.195.224) |
| 20:02.02 | RevdKathy | Not bad, thanks. Tough day at work, but manageable. And I finished my chores - came to play on IRC and it's quiet here |
| 20:02.39 | GAN900 | Ssh, we're sleeping. |
| 20:02.39 | RevdKathy | Nipping afk to put the rubbish out - brb |
| 20:02.43 | GAN900 | Also: Thanksgiving |
| 20:03.03 | RevdKathy | Sorry GAN900 didn't mean to disturb you from your turkey-induced somulence |
| 20:04.09 | Venemo | RevdKathy: how was the the MeeGo conference? |
| 20:05.55 | RevdKathy | Venemo: amazing, brilliant, terrific... quite beyond description |
| 20:06.28 | peb_ | RevdKathy, is there any documentation/scripts online available? |
| 20:06.47 | RevdKathy | peb_ about what? |
| 20:07.05 | peb_ | RevdKathy, the conference. Normally they have stuff online .. |
| 20:08.10 | RevdKathy | The blogs are being co-ordinated here: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010#Conference_Wrap-up |
| 20:08.15 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@178-190-187-121.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:08.26 | RevdKathy | I think the various talks and slides are going up slowly |
| 20:09.02 | Venemo | RevdKathy: I wish I could go, but I couldn't |
| 20:09.20 | RevdKathy | Shame. It was amazing |
| 20:09.25 | Venemo | RevdKathy: so I'm a bit envious about the people who could :) |
| 20:09.32 | RevdKathy | peb_ : vids here: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/session-videos |
| 20:09.52 | RevdKathy | I can understand that Venemo. I was really, really lucky |
| 20:10.59 | Venemo | yeah :) |
| 20:11.23 | RevdKathy | I don't deserve to be so lucky. I had the best time. |
| 20:11.41 | Venemo | why not? |
| 20:12.00 | Venemo | sure you deserved it :) |
| 20:12.06 | RevdKathy | Well, I don't develop or anything. Just an ordinary bear, really |
| 20:12.22 | RevdKathy | I spent most of the time at the help-desk |
| 20:12.40 | Venemo | what's wrong with that? |
| 20:13.07 | peb_ | RevdKathy, thanks for the link -- also some kind of help and well worth for you beeing there ... |
| 20:13.12 | RevdKathy | I feel I ought to do more - but I'm a bit old for learning to code now! |
| 20:13.29 | *** join/#maemo wqapol (~quassel@117.192.97.102) |
| 20:13.30 | RevdKathy | Thanks peb_ |
| 20:13.38 | kerio | RevdKathy: never old enuff |
| 20:14.20 | RevdKathy | kerio: you think I could argue I'm too young to learn code? At twice the age of mst devs? |
| 20:14.40 | kerio | "i'm too old" is just an excuse |
| 20:14.43 | *** join/#maemo frade (~ivan@a88-114-94-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:14.45 | RevdKathy | But Conference was just amazing |
| 20:14.52 | kerio | RevdKathy: http://bit.ly/40CBHF READ THIS |
| 20:15.02 | kerio | it could be your last chance! |
| 20:15.04 | RevdKathy | kerio: that's true. I think to be honest I don't have time or quite know where to start. |
| 20:15.09 | Venemo | RevdKathy: well I met people who are older than you and are still developers |
| 20:15.11 | kerio | start with that! |
| 20:15.55 | RevdKathy | kerio: thank you! That's brilliant. It will give me somewhere to start. |
| 20:15.59 | trumee | Where are the slides, http://conference2010.meego.com/session/meego-n900-past-present-and-future ? |
| 20:16.02 | Venemo | RevdKathy: my colleague at my current job is a 63-year-old man whose hobby is running marathon, and longer distances |
| 20:16.45 | Venemo | RevdKathy: age is no excuse for not learning new things :) |
| 20:16.52 | RevdKathy | Venemo: people have strange hobbies. There's a woman in my dance class in her 60s with two artificial knees and a spinal injury |
| 20:17.11 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~puphome@p54867208.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:17.12 | pupnik | can we run maemo on samsung 'bada' linux phones? |
| 20:17.25 | RevdKathy | Venemo: I agree with that. Just not sure code is the right thing for me. I finished my Masters this year, and was taking a year out before debating a doctorate ;) |
| 20:17.28 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 20:17.57 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 20:18.02 | kerio | great, use that year to learn some coding |
| 20:18.08 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net) |
| 20:18.09 | RST38h | 'bada' is not really real linux, acccording to raster |
| 20:18.17 | RevdKathy | I will - at least I will get some idea of it. |
| 20:18.33 | kerio | it really helps a lot to decompose problems in smaller and smaller problems |
| 20:19.09 | RevdKathy | Part of my problem with learning code is that I'm the sort of learner who likes a teacher. And I couldn't find a course in the county. |
| 20:19.12 | Venemo | RevdKathy: well... coding is not the right thing for me either, but it is a nice hobby :) |
| 20:19.39 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 20:19.42 | RevdKathy | venemo: the important thing is that you enjoy it. |
| 20:19.43 | RST38h | Kathy: No substitute for US community colleges in the US? |
| 20:19.48 | RST38h | in the UK, sorry |
| 20:20.25 | RevdKathy | RST38h: I looked at all the community colleges and there was nothing on computing other than the basic certificates in 'how to operate windoze' |
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| 20:20.37 | RevdKathy | It was rather depressing |
| 20:20.51 | RevdKathy | Hiya NooBmonk3y! |
| 20:20.56 | NooBmonk3y | loli turn up and kathy says it's depressing. lol! |
| 20:20.58 | NooBmonk3y | eveeeening |
| 20:21.03 | RST38h | Kathy: this world is going back to the dark ages |
| 20:21.12 | NooBmonk3y | waves at alls! |
| 20:21.20 | RevdKathy | RST38h I'm not sure Cornwall ever left! |
| 20:21.21 | RST38h | Which is good for my job security, actually. |
| 20:21.41 | NooBmonk3y | i just spent 2.5 hours battling tescos, and managed to get 14 full bags up 2 flights of stairs in 1 go without braking one! yay! .... arms are bugegred! |
| 20:21.55 | RevdKathy | Our NHS It department don't actually know how to do anything with a computer other than reformat it. |
| 20:21.55 | *** join/#maemo Rhoruns (~Rhoruns@ip98-165-94-55.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:22.04 | NooBmonk3y | Kathy - tell me about it! |
| 20:22.29 | NooBmonk3y | Lisa logged a job saying she couldnt send emails on her blackberry, 45 mins later, no response, she tweeted me, resolved in 5 mins lol |
| 20:22.30 | RevdKathy | Well, YOUR NHS It department have you, so clearly they're more knowledgeable! |
| 20:22.36 | Venemo | RevdKathy: well if you like, I can help you |
| 20:22.39 | NooBmonk3y | Kathy, they dont ;) |
| 20:22.42 | NooBmonk3y | i work for the customer ;) |
| 20:22.52 | RevdKathy | Thanks Venemo! If I get stuck, I'll be in touch. :) |
| 20:22.58 | *** join/#maemo troulouliou (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou) |
| 20:23.31 | NooBmonk3y | Kathy, hows the ideapad? |
| 20:23.51 | RevdKathy | I had a PC with a dire case of pop-ups. The guy for IT came, and having established I'd run a couple of spyware removers and a couple of virus checkers said it would have to be reformatted. :( |
| 20:23.59 | NooBmonk3y | lol! |
| 20:24.11 | RST38h | Which is a sensible decision |
| 20:24.12 | troulouliou | hi i m actually installing the sdk , could anybody explain me the basic steps to install cmake on both ARM and X86 scratchbox install |
| 20:24.13 | maybeHere | nuke it from orbit etc pp |
| 20:24.22 | troulouliou | after the installation |
| 20:24.23 | MohammadAG | stabs segfaults |
| 20:24.36 | RST38h | Because using HijackThis correctly requires expertise most IT people do not have |
| 20:24.39 | RevdKathy | The idea-pad is lovely. Only 2 things I'd like it to have - and only one of those is critical |
| 20:25.25 | NooBmonk3y | :P |
| 20:25.30 | RevdKathy | I guess I expect someone employed to maintain the IT to know more about it than I do. |
| 20:25.42 | RST38h | well they do |
| 20:25.52 | RevdKathy | Same as I expect my Doctor to know more than I do :p |
| 20:25.54 | RST38h | just not enough to remove a virus |
| 20:25.59 | Venemo | RevdKathy: do you have pics? |
| 20:26.14 | RevdKathy | I posted a few on my scrap book, and there were some in my blog post |
| 20:26.35 | RevdKathy | But I didn't take many pics - and when I got home I found they were mostly of pints of Guinness... |
| 20:27.02 | Venemo | RevdKathy: well I didn't see any in the blog |
| 20:27.42 | RevdKathy | Go through the blog on the conference and click the links (I am too mean to pay for the LJ that allows embedding) |
| 20:27.52 | RevdKathy | and there's a couple of my scrapbook |
| 20:28.23 | RevdKathy | http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1646518299/just-testing-the-resizing-on-the-gimp-if-this |
| 20:28.43 | Venemo | RevdKathy: maybe not talking about the same blog entry? I haven't found links here :( http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/62299.html |
| 20:29.10 | *** part/#maemo troulouliou (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou) |
| 20:29.26 | RevdKathy | Venemo: http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/61968.html |
| 20:29.43 | RevdKathy | http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1598577599/this-is-lcuk-who-doesnt-drink-guinness-unless |
| 20:30.03 | RevdKathy | http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1590571557/the-bear-working-in-x-terminal-ive-crashed-meego |
| 20:30.16 | kerio | OMFG PURPLE |
| 20:30.16 | lcuk | oi! i only picked that up to take a photo |
| 20:30.21 | lcuk | i got my own a minute later |
| 20:30.30 | RevdKathy | http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1576025944/the-first-of-the-conference |
| 20:30.48 | kerio | i didn't know tech conferences were beer-based |
| 20:31.01 | RevdKathy | lcuk: you picked it up and took a bloody great swig out of it! |
| 20:31.09 | lcuk | kerio, the meegoconf ran on guinness |
| 20:31.19 | RevdKathy | lcuk: I swear you only did it to keep me from drinking too much |
| 20:31.30 | kerio | so that's why they kept pulseaudio! |
| 20:31.40 | lcuk | what good it did, you still got whisked away into the moshpit :P |
| 20:31.46 | Venemo | RevdKathy, so this is the thing everyone's been talkin about? http://www.revdkathy.co.uk/meegoconf/08.jpg |
| 20:32.17 | RevdKathy | Venemo: yes - that's the ideapad |
| 20:32.19 | MohammadAG | cool tablet, windows logo ruins it :P |
| 20:32.28 | kerio | omg that trackpad looks awful |
| 20:33.01 | RevdKathy | I should have sat the bear over the windows logo! |
| 20:33.17 | RevdKathy | The trackpad has a very odd texture - I find it sets my teeth on edge |
| 20:33.30 | RevdKathy | So I have a pink mini-mouse attached instead |
| 20:33.34 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 20:33.52 | Venemo | heh |
| 20:33.55 | MohammadAG | who's the guy in the screen's reflection, lcuk? |
| 20:34.05 | RevdKathy | lcuk: i did not 'get whisked away' - I went of my own accord! |
| 20:34.33 | lcuk | MohammadAG, thats texrat i believe |
| 20:34.38 | lcuk | RevdKathy, lol |
| 20:34.39 | RevdKathy | No, that's not lcuk. Could possibly be texrat |
| 20:34.57 | RevdKathy | Hard to be sure from that angle |
| 20:35.21 | pupnik | you have to go to the x-series to get an anti-glare display and a trackpoint |
| 20:35.49 | pupnik | but it's great having a device just for meego |
| 20:36.20 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (~Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 20:36.29 | pupnik | RevdKathy / lcuk - you guys see an accelerated meego running in a vm yet? |
| 20:36.52 | pupnik | (that is texrat in the reflection) |
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| 20:37.54 | RevdKathy | pupnik: I haven't done anything clever with it. Just set it up and used it as an end-user. Several things were not easy for an ordinary user to do (so not ready for general release yet) |
| 20:38.14 | RevdKathy | But bar a few bugs, i find it pretty stable |
| 20:38.43 | *** join/#maemo xnt14 (~xnt14@pool-108-21-243-33.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:39.31 | pupnik | RevdKathy: well not all of us are ready to buy a seperate device for it |
| 20:39.42 | inz | RevdCathy, can you get Guinness in a plastic pint? That seems really wrong to me. |
| 20:39.50 | RevdKathy | No, that's fair enough. I wouldn't have bought one |
| 20:40.01 | RevdKathy | inz yes, and it was very wrong. |
| 20:40.07 | pupnik | lol |
| 20:40.19 | pupnik | btw did the guinness taste different/better in dublin? |
| 20:40.27 | jacekowski | yeah better |
| 20:40.29 | jacekowski | still like crap |
| 20:40.39 | jacekowski | i don't like that kind of beer |
| 20:40.44 | pupnik | how about someone's opinion who likes guinness? :) |
| 20:40.50 | kerio | doesn't drink |
| 20:40.59 | inz | neither |
| 20:41.07 | alterego | would really like it if one of those ir apps could perform a semi auto-matic binary search. |
| 20:41.50 | GAN900 | pupnik, better than in the US. |
| 20:41.58 | alterego | Think I might work on it myself post Columbus v1 |
| 20:42.14 | GAN900 | The Bud in the hacker lounge was a nice taste of home, though. *g* |
| 20:42.22 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-240-210.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 20:42.49 | RevdKathy | I thought it was better than Guinness at home, yes |
| 20:43.05 | RevdKathy | Though it's hard to be objective when you are in such excellent company |
| 20:43.14 | RevdKathy | and lcuk drinks half your pint in one swig |
| 20:43.18 | lcuk | the biggest guinness difference is from the tap vs from can/bottle |
| 20:43.30 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 20:44.54 | RevdKathy | GAN900 Ugh. Yuckies. |
| 20:45.13 | *** join/#maemo poutsi (ilkkal@xob.kapsi.fi) |
| 20:46.24 | pupnik | "MeeGo simulator and emulator solve the OpenGL performance problem by making OpenGL rendered by GPU in host off-screen buffer..." http://conference2010.meego.com/session/opengl-acceleration-meego-simulator-and-emulator |
| 20:46.38 | pupnik | finally a meeGo i can run in a VM? |
| 20:46.57 | poutsi | hey, can anyone shed some light on python packaging? what's up with postinst scripts that rm -rf dirs in /usr/lib/python*/site-packages with comments that say it's a "fix for old packages not managing pyc files"? |
| 20:47.10 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@sign-4d094851.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:47.10 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 20:47.40 | pupnik | poutsi: that sounds like an optification step |
| 20:47.58 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 20:48.04 | poutsi | possibly, I just noticed it since it breaks mercurial |
| 20:48.29 | poutsi | ie. mercurial-common first installs its .py files there, then the postinst of mercurial rm -rf's them |
| 20:48.37 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@86.57.195.224) |
| 20:48.43 | kerio | hahaha |
| 20:48.47 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.149.50) |
| 20:49.38 | poutsi | I'm just curious about what a package "managing it's pyc files" means |
| 20:52.22 | alterego | .pyc files are generated by the Python interpreter for modules imported by scripts, they're the compiled modules in bytecode format. |
| 20:52.45 | RST38h | looking for something new and exciting |
| 20:52.55 | poutsi | alterego, I know that |
| 20:53.15 | poutsi | what I don't understand it is how it relates to .deb packages |
| 20:53.36 | alterego | So when a package is installed, it doesn't know about .pyc files, by defauly, because they're weren't in the package, they were generated after the fact. |
| 20:54.02 | alterego | wow, that was an awful sentence. |
| 20:55.19 | alterego | The .pyc files aren't in the deb, so apt/dpkg doesn't know about them. therefore can't manage them, it's up to the package maintainer to remove .pyc files and any other generated files postrm. |
| 20:55.46 | poutsi | yeah, that I'd understand, but this is in the postinst script, not postrm :) |
| 20:55.48 | alterego | How is that not blatantly obvious? |
| 20:56.05 | *** join/#maemo RevdKathy (~RevdKathy@5ad0c391.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:56.23 | alterego | Well, that's someone probably trying to fix an issue with a packagde they crewed up the first time? |
| 20:56.32 | alterego | screwed ... |
| 20:56.49 | lcuk | RevdKathy, 16 |
| 20:57.11 | RevdKathy | Bah - damned thing locked up on me and I ended up losing a half-filed bug |
| 20:57.15 | alterego | lcuk: do you wanna be one of my beta testers next week? |
| 20:57.19 | poutsi | might be, and it's obviously a bug and I already filed it as such :) |
| 20:57.40 | alterego | No point in filing a bug against an old package. |
| 20:57.41 | poutsi | it's just that it seems like such a pattern and I'm trying to nail down the logic |
| 20:57.53 | alterego | Who knows :) |
| 21:00.04 | pupnik | RST38h: a kevlar space elevator to the moon would be exciting |
| 21:01.44 | RST38h | pupnik: Nah, the Moon is just a huge dusty marble =) |
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| 21:06.09 | digitalstimulus | does anyone know a way around the problem with n810 OS2008 file manager where "shared folders" sometimes appears and sometimes doesn't. Is there any way to force a scan of network shares? |
| 21:06.37 | jacekowski | it's upnp shit |
| 21:06.43 | jacekowski | and upnp is shit by design |
| 21:07.35 | alterego | It's not shit, just overly complicated. |
| 21:08.08 | alterego | As much as I really, don't want to have this discussion again. ^_^ |
| 21:08.31 | digitalstimulus | it seems that once I open the file manager and network shares do not show up, they never will until I reboot the device, connect to the network, wait, then try again |
| 21:09.05 | alterego | Strange, I've never had a problem with it though I only use it when I'm at my parents' ... |
| 21:09.56 | digitalstimulus | I have read online about other people having similar problems and that it is hit or miss. I haven't found a way to force a scan for network shares to circumvent the problem |
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| 21:10.59 | alterego | hrm, well, it all goes through gupnp, so maybe look for ways to coerse that? |
| 21:12.25 | digitalstimulus | thanks much, that's a start :) |
| 21:13.56 | alterego | I did do a bit of work with gupnp a while back, but it's a rather distant memory. |
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| 21:15.22 | digitalstimulus | is the n900 worth getting as a standalone, non-phone device over the n810? |
| 21:15.33 | alterego | contemplates adding a animation toggle option to conserve cpu .. |
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| 21:17.03 | nox- | moin |
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| 21:17.27 | alterego | aloha |
| 21:18.20 | MohammadAG | alterego, your app uses the GPS, I wouldn't be worrying about the CPU being the main thing that rapes the battery ;) |
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| 21:20.47 | nox- | moin alterego |
| 21:20.57 | pupnik | http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter Standing Up for your Rights. How to pass TSA without suffereing sexual assault or Illegal search. |
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| 21:25.49 | RevdKathy | goodnight all |
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| 21:40.32 | mst | fails to figure out which repository to enable to get gcc |
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| 21:48.14 | alterego | MohammadAG: that depends how you use it, I got 3 hours of logs with only one level drop on the battery indicator, and I was listening to m00sics. |
| 21:48.44 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 21:48.50 | MohammadAG | brb, hot swapping battery |
| 21:49.10 | alterego | which is fine, for data logging, but I want it to be usable for hiking as a handheld gps, which means it needs to have a fairly good usability statistic :P |
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| 21:52.33 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: zooming font size in xchat would be exciting |
| 21:52.35 | jacekowski | i'm logging 24/7 on mains |
| 21:53.57 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: making context menus work on chan treview is probably less exciting but still worth a look |
| 21:54.08 | DocScrutinizer | tree-view* |
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| 21:54.26 | MohammadAG | hmm? |
| 21:54.37 | MohammadAG | they work for me |
| 21:54.52 | DocScrutinizer | in tree-view mode for chan tabs? |
| 21:55.44 | MohammadAG | on a second look, they don't o_O |
| 21:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | maybe they got fixed during last 5 months, never checked it again |
| 21:56.34 | MohammadAG | I wonder if it's because it's a custom widget |
| 21:56.41 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
| 21:58.07 | jacekowski | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLIR-I5-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-Infrared-Imager-853540-/380288572065?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item588af71aa1 |
| 21:58.12 | jacekowski | why this stuff is so expensive |
| 21:58.14 | DocScrutinizer | and for sure a xchat with python scripting support would excite me :-) |
| 21:59.06 | DocScrutinizer | I guess we could get a version with python support and dependencies, as alternative to standard pkg |
| 21:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | let's call it... errr, xchat-python ? |
| 22:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: maybe because the sensors are really expensive? |
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| 22:01.52 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that technlogy was known 10 years ago |
| 22:01.59 | jacekowski | and prices went down only by couple % |
| 22:02.11 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
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| 22:02.51 | DocScrutinizer | no moore's shrinking, no increasing production numbers on the sensor |
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| 22:03.41 | jacekowski | yeah, no research so that cost is gone |
| 22:04.22 | jacekowski | i would buy it |
| 22:04.23 | DocScrutinizer | CRT tubes and 1/4" CCD sensors and resistors also didn't significantly drop in price |
| 22:04.24 | jacekowski | for half price |
| 22:04.30 | Choom | thermal sensors need to be cooled, otherwise they'll see their own thermal glow |
| 22:04.31 | chrissbx | Anyone else seeing the skype client stopped working? It thinks it is logged in, but I cannot place calls and buddies are not shown as logged in when they actually are. |
| 22:04.41 | jacekowski | Choom: not anymore |
| 22:04.47 | DocScrutinizer | there's nothing to optimize, on some devices |
| 22:04.57 | jacekowski | Choom: uncooled microbolometers were invented over 10 years ago |
| 22:05.14 | Choom | that doesn't make a lot of sense |
| 22:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | that's called PIR |
| 22:05.39 | jacekowski | Choom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbolometer |
| 22:05.48 | Choom | if the sensor is at room temperature and you're trying to see something coolder than that it won't work |
| 22:06.13 | jacekowski | Choom: well, it does |
| 22:06.26 | jacekowski | Choom: you can compensate for that |
| 22:06.48 | jacekowski | everything that's warmer than absolute 0 will radiate |
| 22:06.57 | jacekowski | and heat up sensor |
| 22:07.00 | jacekowski | more or less |
| 22:07.15 | jacekowski | it's energy |
| 22:09.41 | jacekowski | oO |
| 22:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectricity |
| 22:09.59 | jacekowski | i just read that fluke and tektronix are one and same company pretty much |
| 22:10.35 | Choom | OK |
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| 22:28.39 | DocScrutinizer | Choom: when you're sitting in a room with 22°C air temperature and same temperature walls, and another time same room same air but walls have -50°C... I bet you'd notice, though you are evidently higer temperature than the walls in both cases |
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| 22:30.38 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise those gold/silver plastic film recue blankets wouldn't make much sense |
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| 22:30.54 | DocScrutinizer | rescue* |
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| 22:38.09 | crashanddie | isn't that about heat radiation? |
| 22:38.36 | nox- | thats what ir is... |
| 22:40.18 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: except that the survival blankets barely work through radiation -- their greatest effectiveness comes from their windproof and waterproof characteristics |
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| 22:50.23 | sivang | something funny about desining voice recognition interfaces: |
| 22:50.26 | sivang | http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=455559633104 |
| 22:51.21 | Choom | meh, requires a facebook account |
| 22:51.29 | sivang | Choom: it does? screw it :-/ |
| 22:51.43 | Choom | I've been somewhat interested in that subject though |
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| 22:52.17 | sivang | Choom: shows in a sarcastic and ironic way how the lack of thought about scottish and irish accents leaves 2 bloaks stuck in en elevator |
| 22:52.33 | Choom | LOL |
| 22:53.09 | sivang | Choom: I wish you could watch it |
| 22:53.09 | crashanddie | blokes** |
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| 23:02.08 | DocScrutinizer | not really a joke. A friend of mine seen some Universitary dudes presenting their speech recog system on a convention. When somebody with a easern german accent came along and tested it, it segfaulted (aka BSOD'ed) |
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| 23:04.37 | Choom | I can barely wait for the speech crackers of the future |
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| 23:04.51 | pupnik | wb javispedro |
| 23:05.28 | javispedro | hey pupnik |
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| 23:07.14 | pupnik | any interest in snes9x4p? |
| 23:07.49 | pupnik | here's the scalers http://pastebin.com/1swmb0gp http://pastebin.com/TpgbVf1W |
| 23:08.16 | pupnik | don't understand much of what's going on though |
| 23:08.25 | javispedro | so far not really interested |
| 23:08.36 | pupnik | mhm |
| 23:08.49 | pupnik | anybody else interested in SNES emu, here's a nice vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiTD9EMxjMI |
| 23:09.38 | javispedro | I mean I don't see what's new about it |
| 23:10.20 | crashanddie | LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy |
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| 23:11.03 | sivang | hey javispedro |
| 23:12.29 | javispedro | hi sivang |
| 23:12.45 | pupnik | oh awesome, Ian was working on the meego deferred gl |
| 23:13.26 | javispedro | why? |
| 23:14.14 | javispedro | I mean, what do you wanto to get from that? :) |
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| 23:15.27 | pupnik | i want to run in vmware or virtualbox javispedro |
| 23:16.01 | javispedro | oh |
| 23:16.08 | pupnik | http://conference2010.meego.com/session/opengl-acceleration-meego-simulator-and-emulator |
| 23:16.22 | javispedro | but that has nothing to do with deferred gl? |
| 23:16.35 | pupnik | well, i think it does |
| 23:16.37 | pupnik | not sure |
| 23:17.07 | javispedro | well |
| 23:17.19 | javispedro | I think a vmware drm was in progress |
| 23:18.19 | javispedro | http://www.mail-archive.com/dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg45658.html -- this says it's already on staging |
| 23:18.29 | javispedro | so it might very well be a matter of just rebuilding the kernel |
| 23:19.57 | sivang | javispedro: what's vmware drm? |
| 23:19.59 | MohammadAG | gnite everyone |
| 23:20.31 | sivang | night MohammadAG |
| 23:20.32 | javispedro | gnite MohammadAG |
| 23:20.59 | javispedro | sivang: a direct rendering manager -- basically the "new"-style GPU drivers |
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| 23:21.05 | pupnik | ty javispedro |
| 23:21.46 | sivang | javispedro: I see, what the difference to "old" style ones then? |
| 23:23.55 | javispedro | sivang: a bit long to explain atm |
| 23:24.04 | sivang | javispedro: ok, never mind :) |
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| 23:58.05 | Pauly | Hi, im on n900 and ovi store is not working. btw just reflashed pr1.3 |
| 23:58.38 | Pauly | it says to update my phone? |
