| 00:00.13 | timeless_ | khertan_: that's the upstream tracker |
| 00:00.15 | iDont | timeless_: sorry, i don't get it. What would prevent anyone from using a different FS? |
| 00:00.20 | timeless_ | there's no reason to file the bugs downstream |
| 00:00.24 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-09.log.html#t2010-10-09T23:59:24 |
| 00:00.26 | cehteh | iDont: consider /home as vital system partition you need to dive into some pita when you want to make it ext4 |
| 00:00.26 | timeless_ | unless you feel like annoying andre |
| 00:00.26 | khertan_ | timeless, ok |
| 00:00.37 | iDont | timeless_: had performed a reflash anyway, so didn't had anything to lose |
| 00:00.41 | khertan_ | timeless_, this isn't the purpose :) |
| 00:01.26 | cehteh | iDont: you have to fiddle out how the boot process mounts /home .. there are a lot nokiaisms and braintfarts there |
| 00:01.35 | cehteh | it needs /home quite early ... |
| 00:01.42 | iDont | cehteh: don't worry, I had moved /home to an ext3 partition on the microsd card and edited the genfs awk and rcs late to use that partition as /home |
| 00:01.51 | iDont | cehteh: this setup survived a reboot ;) |
| 00:01.55 | jacekowski | iDont: take back cover off |
| 00:02.06 | iDont | cehteh: so I could parition the emmc freely |
| 00:02.26 | timeless_ | javispedro: so um... |
| 00:02.29 | timeless_ | about my bash problems |
| 00:02.31 | cehteh | so .. figure out why it doesnt work |
| 00:02.34 | timeless_ | any suggestions? |
| 00:02.34 | iDont | jacekowski: i'm not stupid |
| 00:02.49 | timeless_ | i can try to glob for */debian and strip /debian |
| 00:02.53 | timeless_ | but that's incredibly annoying |
| 00:03.01 | timeless_ | isn't even sure it'd work |
| 00:03.24 | iPeter- | Is there any "Snap to grid" app what would work on pr 1.3? |
| 00:03.48 | timeless_ | iPeter-: there's tweaker or something |
| 00:03.48 | iDont | why does everyone act like everyone is stupid? unknown people can have a linux background too |
| 00:03.55 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_: suggestions? one: build bash4 *with* "help" enabled, pretty please! |
| 00:04.08 | timeless_ | sorry, "Tweakr" |
| 00:04.11 | iPeter- | timeless_: Tried tweakr, still non snap to grid. |
| 00:04.26 | iDont | i took the right precautions before messing with the emmc: i've succesfully moved /home to the microsd card so i could parition the emmc |
| 00:04.30 | timeless_ | iPeter-: sorry, it's the only one i know of |
| 00:04.46 | timeless_ | DocScrutinizer: ? bash is just an example |
| 00:04.55 | DocScrutinizer | iPeter-: trying alone won't help. You need to enable snap-to-grid in tweakr |
| 00:05.14 | timeless_ | oh, heh |
| 00:05.16 | timeless_ | yeah well... |
| 00:05.26 | javispedro | timeless_: sorry, but still not understanding what you're trying and to do and why it cannot be done with plain dir movement. |
| 00:05.32 | iPeter- | DocScrutinizer: Have tried small and large "snap-to-grid" options, still none. |
| 00:05.40 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 00:05.45 | DocScrutinizer | no idea then |
| 00:05.48 | timeless_ | javispedro: imagine an entire source tree for maemo |
| 00:05.54 | timeless_ | then imagine that some other script is managing it |
| 00:05.58 | DocScrutinizer | odds are any other "app" will fail as well |
| 00:05.59 | timeless_ | it's also making a mess of it |
| 00:06.24 | timeless_ | i want to steal just the useful directories |
| 00:06.27 | javispedro | ah, and you want to _revert_ the mess, not cause it. |
| 00:06.37 | iDont | cehteh: i've written solution #7 on the wiki page about repartitioning the emmc. read that and you'll see that moving /home works just fine |
| 00:06.40 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 00:06.43 | timeless_ | well, _revert_ would be rm -rf in some flavor |
| 00:06.52 | timeless_ | i just want a copy of the pristine bits minus the crap |
| 00:07.12 | cehteh | iDont: i just keep it ext3 .. good enough for that |
| 00:07.15 | javispedro | timeless_: if the .dsc files are still in the mess you can potentially extract the original package from them. |
| 00:07.35 | timeless_ | javispedro: they are |
| 00:07.40 | timeless_ | i used to do that in a previous incarnation |
| 00:07.48 | timeless_ | i'd rather not spend the effort on that |
| 00:07.59 | iDont | cehteh: yes, surely good enough, but i had nothing to lose, so i gave it a shot ;) |
| 00:08.00 | timeless_ | it's a lot of extra work which *probably* is totally wasteful |
| 00:08.06 | timeless_ | i think */debian will do the right thing |
| 00:08.13 | timeless_ | minus the pain of stripping /debian |
| 00:08.14 | javispedro | yes... |
| 00:08.21 | DocScrutinizer | ponders about timeless_ 's incarnations |
| 00:08.40 | cehteh | sometime (lets say 99.9% of the time) i need my device just working :) |
| 00:08.48 | timeless_ | echo $(ls -d */debian|perl -pne 's!/debian!!') |
| 00:09.06 | timeless_webchat | i'm using w7 as a vpn client |
| 00:09.14 | timeless_webchat | so i don't have memory for my normal irc client :) |
| 00:09.37 | timeless_webchat | my primary nick is being sat on by my primary ssh client |
| 00:09.46 | timeless_webchat | but the ssh port on that box is down |
| 00:09.47 | Jartza | nights |
| 00:09.52 | timeless_webchat | so i can't animate it :( |
| 00:11.03 | iDont | timeless_webchat: could you please elaborate why /home as ext4 woldn't work? |
| 00:12.06 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-86-142.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 00:12.49 | *** join/#maemo merlin_1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 00:13.08 | Termana | good morning |
| 00:13.19 | peb_ | Good Mornin Termana |
| 00:13.20 | jacekowski | because ext4 == /dev/null with delay |
| 00:13.40 | javispedro | hi Termana |
| 00:14.24 | iDont | jacekowski: i disagree, haven't lost any data with it yet |
| 00:14.40 | jacekowski | i said - with delay |
| 00:14.48 | cehteh | yeah thats a myth .. ext4 works quite reliable |
| 00:14.48 | iDont | jacekowski: but i don't like to turn this into a FS discussion |
| 00:15.51 | timeless_webchat | i'm not saying it won't work |
| 00:15.51 | javispedro | even if ext4 was stable in the 2.6.3x series, it surely wasn't in the 2.6.2x |
| 00:16.02 | javispedro | s/was/is |
| 00:16.05 | timeless_webchat | i'm just applauding your efforts to brick your device |
| 00:16.25 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 00:16.35 | iDont | timeless_webchat: okay, as i said: i had nothing to lose, plus I know my way around in Linux |
| 00:16.45 | iDont | timeless_webchat: so i gave it s shot, but i failed |
| 00:17.04 | iDont | timeless_webchat: and i'd like to know why, so i asked here |
| 00:17.30 | iDont | javispedro: dunno about stability in 2.6.2x series, but i wanted to give it a shot ;) |
| 00:17.40 | jacekowski | no ext4 support in kernel |
| 00:17.56 | iDont | jacekowski: i've said earlier i had compiled support in |
| 00:18.31 | iDont | i would really like to know what went wrong, everything looked good |
| 00:18.47 | *** join/#maemo Jef91 (~Jef91@143.43.53.150) |
| 00:19.03 | andax | i want ibm's jfs instead ext4, it was supported in mandrake linux since 1999 |
| 00:19.12 | cehteh | uses ext4 since march or so .. not a single problem reported by fsck |
| 00:19.17 | Jef91 | So before I go through and manually fix hundreds of calender entries - is there a fix to remove the "daylight savings time adjustment" on my n900 calender? |
| 00:19.25 | Termana | iDont, I bet that's what she said |
| 00:19.35 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@110.164.149.56) |
| 00:19.41 | *** join/#maemo fab__ (~bellet@bellet.info) |
| 00:19.45 | iDont | Termana: :D |
| 00:19.46 | cehteh | and by javispedro's rants i'd say he is just guessing but not using it |
| 00:19.48 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@110.164.149.56) |
| 00:20.07 | jacekowski | Jef91: as far as i know it's storing time in unix timestamp |
| 00:20.08 | javispedro | cehteh: rants? |
| 00:20.13 | cehteh | there are some known problems with ext4 on the .28 kernel |
| 00:20.26 | javispedro | cehteh: read again my message, I just said exactly the same you have just said. |
| 00:20.30 | cehteh | but these are not that dramatic .. considering all the other bugs the device has |
| 00:20.47 | jacekowski | Jef91: so if you would play with /etc/localtime to pass different time to calendar you could fix it there |
| 00:20.56 | jacekowski | Jef91: but that's complicated |
| 00:21.09 | jacekowski | Jef91: but i'm not sure what is your problem |
| 00:21.15 | Jef91 | jacekowski this is the worst fucking feature EVER. It has the right date for things before this past saturday |
| 00:21.20 | cehteh | sidenote that ext4 gives a noticeable performance improvement |
| 00:21.30 | Jef91 | All the dates after this saturday are an hour too soon |
| 00:21.40 | jacekowski | Jef91: that shouldn't happen |
| 00:21.53 | iDont | cehteh: thats why i gave it a shot :) |
| 00:22.11 | jacekowski | i can't really imagine how it could be broken |
| 00:22.27 | iDont | anyway, steps I've performed: compile kernel with ext4 support, cp -a /home/* to microsd ext3 partition, edited genfstab.awk and rcS-late to use new partition as home, reboot, mkfs.ext4 emmc partition, cp -a files back, reverted changed rcS-late and genfstab.awk, reboot |
| 00:22.31 | jacekowski | every libc implementation does it correctly |
| 00:22.40 | Jef91 | jacekowski It happened back with PR1.0 as well - last march when the time changed |
| 00:23.10 | jacekowski | ~blame nokia |
| 00:23.10 | infobot | ACTION blames nokia (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 00:23.11 | chx | what does it mean if the LED flashes ... blue? |
| 00:23.14 | chx | never saw this before. |
| 00:23.22 | jacekowski | chx: message |
| 00:23.25 | Termana | chx, aliens have come to visit you |
| 00:23.32 | chx | Message????? |
| 00:23.35 | chx | You mean, SMS? |
| 00:23.38 | jacekowski | yes |
| 00:23.39 | chx | is shocked |
| 00:23.43 | javispedro | does it flash _any other color other than blue_ at all, when not charging? |
| 00:23.44 | ieatlint | or im |
| 00:23.45 | chx | noone knows this number |
| 00:23.46 | ieatlint | or email |
| 00:23.47 | chx | not even me. |
| 00:23.51 | Termana | Obviously chx doesn't get a lot of contact from the outside |
| 00:23.53 | Termana | :p |
| 00:23.57 | javispedro | indeed. |
| 00:23.59 | jacekowski | chx: marketing probably |
| 00:24.18 | chx | oh yes. Wind Mobile wants me to pay. |
| 00:24.24 | chx | silly them. |
| 00:24.39 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@rt.miraclelinux.com) |
| 00:24.48 | timeless_webchat | chx: it could be a googletalk message |
| 00:24.52 | timeless_webchat | or a jabber message |
| 00:24.58 | timeless_webchat | or a skype message... |
| 00:25.03 | chx | right, right |
| 00:25.10 | javispedro | not with the default configuration |
| 00:25.16 | javispedro | which for some reason disables leds for IM... |
| 00:25.18 | javispedro | and email. |
| 00:25.19 | andax | chx: money makes the world go round (or so they say) |
| 00:25.27 | chx | Another lame question, can i get rid of the icons in the menu i do not need? |
| 00:25.31 | timeless_webchat | javispedro: too expensive on battery? :) |
| 00:25.43 | timeless_webchat | chx: you could use catorize |
| 00:25.44 | chx | andax: yeah but i do not pay my phone bills, there is an office manager for that. |
| 00:25.48 | javispedro | timeless_webchat: might be an actual reason |
| 00:25.57 | jacekowski | chx: apmefo |
| 00:26.13 | chx | apmefo says "create subfolders" |
| 00:26.15 | chx | i saw that |
| 00:26.29 | chx | that does not sound like a menu eidtor to me? |
| 00:26.32 | jacekowski | then you can create subfolder "useless shit" |
| 00:26.48 | jacekowski | and drop your stuff there |
| 00:26.55 | timeless_webchat | would call it ',' instead of that, but :) |
| 00:27.28 | jacekowski | that's what makes us different |
| 00:27.34 | jacekowski | and other stuff as well |
| 00:27.35 | andax | chx: ~ # apt-get install office-manager o_O |
| 00:27.43 | chx | LOL |
| 00:28.02 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@94.97.9.206) |
| 00:28.16 | chx | btw is it just me or witter eats battery for breakfast? |
| 00:28.33 | andax | ^ great timing lolloo :) |
| 00:28.33 | jacekowski | chx: try gps at the same time |
| 00:28.47 | jacekowski | chx: you can probably drain battery in less than 45 minutes |
| 00:28.47 | lolloo | hey andax! |
| 00:28.58 | lolloo | hey all! |
| 00:29.02 | chx | jacekowski: lol |
| 00:29.06 | andax | hey lolloo :-) |
| 00:29.21 | javispedro | 45 minutes?? red hot |
| 00:29.25 | lolloo | I got meego runing on my phone! |
| 00:29.27 | jacekowski | gps + internet + little bit of OC |
| 00:29.33 | lolloo | but terribly slow! |
| 00:29.34 | jacekowski | and it's gone |
| 00:30.17 | jacekowski | fmtxd uses a bit as well |
| 00:30.28 | *** join/#maemo hcm_ (~hcm@port-92-193-5-173.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 00:30.40 | lolloo | I hear that N9 will be using MeeGo! |
| 00:30.46 | jacekowski | yep |
| 00:30.50 | jacekowski | maemo is abandoned |
| 00:31.00 | lolloo | but I dont like the design of the phone! |
| 00:31.06 | jacekowski | n900 was first and last phone with maemo |
| 00:31.11 | lolloo | maemo is great in my thoughts! |
| 00:31.36 | Termana | Fuck me |
| 00:31.38 | jacekowski | i would really like to see a phone with SAW screen |
| 00:31.43 | Termana | I'm just going to go die in a coffin |
| 00:31.45 | Termana | Excuse me |
| 00:31.47 | andax | jacekowski: next probably has a adobe/microsoft OS |
| 00:31.56 | lolloo | lol @ Termana |
| 00:32.32 | lolloo | is there any apps that benifit from QT? |
| 00:32.45 | lolloo | on N900 I mean. |
| 00:33.05 | chx | there are a few, i saw a QT Web twitter app |
| 00:33.06 | tripzero | other than all the benefits of Qt, no |
| 00:33.48 | tripzero | my apps on maemo use qt |
| 00:33.51 | tripzero | all of them |
| 00:33.55 | lolloo | wow |
| 00:34.07 | lolloo | How so? |
| 00:34.11 | tripzero | (meaning, all the ones I wrote) |
| 00:34.19 | chx | ooooh installing this app caused it to reread the menu file i edited in xterm. |
| 00:34.20 | alterego | tripzero: I was gonna say ;) |
| 00:34.22 | chx | WIN. |
| 00:34.38 | tripzero | alterego, well yanno... i rewrote hildon and stuff |
| 00:34.39 | lolloo | hehehe |
| 00:34.42 | alterego | All of the apps I've wrote/write are in Qt too .. |
| 00:34.43 | tripzero | in QML!!!eleven11 |
| 00:34.47 | alterego | That need a UI that is. |
| 00:34.58 | lolloo | wow aseosme |
| 00:35.11 | lolloo | would you kindly share? |
| 00:35.21 | alterego | My apps? |
| 00:35.24 | alterego | Nope :P |
| 00:35.29 | lolloo | hehehe |
| 00:35.40 | chx | wait someone ported stratagus to maemo? |
| 00:35.42 | alterego | Well, one is in extras, the others are wip |
| 00:35.56 | tripzero | extras-devel ftw |
| 00:36.20 | Termana | Everything is on extras-devel |
| 00:36.29 | lolloo | checking |
| 00:36.29 | Termana | Your mum is on extras-devel |
| 00:36.31 | *** join/#maemo b-man` (~b-man@pool-70-106-216-16.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:36.33 | chx | Is there a Civilization clone? |
| 00:36.36 | chx | Popolous? |
| 00:36.37 | lolloo | hehehe old joke! |
| 00:36.37 | tripzero | Termana, beat me to it! |
| 00:36.48 | chx | is very old fashioned game wise. |
| 00:36.54 | chx | simply put... dosbox??? |
| 00:37.02 | tripzero | but what's a 'mum'? |
| 00:37.03 | andax | chx: freeciv |
| 00:37.08 | javispedro | someone ported Extras-devel to Maemo. But then he died in a coffin. |
| 00:37.14 | chx | hey, i was kidding with dosbox. |
| 00:37.22 | chx | o_O |
| 00:37.26 | lolloo | ha! |
| 00:37.38 | chx | that's... that's... |
| 00:37.41 | nox- | hm didnt i see a bochs `somewhere'? |
| 00:37.57 | Termana | nox-, yeah bochs is in there |
| 00:38.00 | *** join/#maemo melvin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 00:38.00 | Termana | but bochs is slow |
| 00:38.02 | nox- | (not that it will be fast but... :) |
| 00:38.04 | nox- | yeah |
| 00:38.10 | chx | did someone port Windows 7 for kicks? |
| 00:38.13 | lolloo | when will they fix portiat mode in N900! |
| 00:38.24 | nox- | dosbox needs a x86 cpu |
| 00:38.24 | lolloo | its hurting my sole! |
| 00:38.31 | Termana | nox-, qemu is much better, too bad no one has compiled it directly for Maemo though. Usable in a chroot though :p |
| 00:38.35 | tripzero | lolloo, it is fixed... in meego |
| 00:38.45 | *** join/#maemo PaulFertser (~pavel@91.78.250.2) |
| 00:38.47 | chx | nox-: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dosbox/ |
| 00:38.51 | lolloo | your correct tripzero |
| 00:39.01 | chx | nox-: it looks like it doesnt. |
| 00:39.02 | lolloo | just kind of wished on Maemo too! |
| 00:39.08 | tripzero | also, it's really easy for apps to switch back and forth between potrait and landscape in maemo |
| 00:39.12 | andax | chx: i tried freeciv, works on n900 but is a bit complcated compared to playing on the desktop.. |
| 00:39.15 | tripzero | ...using Qt |
| 00:39.16 | nox- | chx, wow |
| 00:39.25 | tripzero | apparently not many apps take advantage of it though |
| 00:39.25 | nox- | chx, does that jit like qemu too? |
| 00:39.42 | javispedro | nox-: partially. |
| 00:40.01 | tripzero | i've had the homescreen get stuck in portrait mode once. total b0rkage |
| 00:40.24 | Nirtal | Hello! Does anyone knows if it's possible to make calls from my computer though my n900. Using the computers headphones and mic to talk |
| 00:40.28 | lolloo | yes tripzero |
| 00:40.37 | lolloo | it happened to me all the time |
| 00:40.52 | andax | chx: recommend to use smallest map (turns are getting slow in the end and the screen size is rather small for such game) |
| 00:41.02 | lolloo | too good to be true! |
| 00:41.32 | tripzero | Nirtal, look at ssh and the dbus-send commands for making calls |
| 00:42.09 | Nirtal | ok |
| 00:42.12 | tripzero | Nirtal, in other words, yes, it is possible |
| 00:42.15 | andax | Nirtal: something like skype? |
| 00:42.26 | cehteh | thanks for the hint about the easy-debian swapon .. that works, having 2 swaps with equal priority now .. lets see how this works |
| 00:42.33 | tripzero | Nirtal, however, you may end up needing to use bluetooth headphones/mic |
| 00:42.40 | Nirtal | yes, but with my telephone :P |
| 00:43.12 | Nirtal | I got bluetooth on my computer |
| 00:43.41 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you'll cry |
| 00:43.48 | tripzero | you want to configure bluez to use connect hsp/hfp to the phone |
| 00:43.49 | alterego | Heh |
| 00:43.50 | cehteh | lets see |
| 00:44.00 | Nirtal | And while I'm home, I wan't to use my headphones and microphone in my computer to talk in the phone |
| 00:44.05 | javispedro | agrees you'll end up crying |
| 00:44.15 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-235-130.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 00:44.15 | cehteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:44.15 | cehteh | FilenameTypeSizeUsedPriority |
| 00:44.15 | cehteh | /dev/mmcblk0p3 partition786424661401 |
| 00:44.30 | cehteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:44.31 | tripzero | Nirtal, ^^ see my last comment if you missed it |
| 00:44.44 | Nirtal | Didn't miss :P |
| 00:45.01 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 00:45.14 | cehteh | lets start fennec :) |
| 00:45.32 | tripzero | Nirtal, also check out ofono |
| 00:45.48 | tripzero | you can use ofono on your computer and use the n900 as a mode (hfp bluetooth profile) |
| 00:45.59 | tripzero | s/mode/modem/ |
| 00:46.22 | tripzero | that's actually probably the easiest way |
| 00:46.26 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 00:46.27 | Nirtal | ok |
| 00:46.28 | Nirtal | thnx |
| 00:46.35 | tripzero | ofono.org |
| 00:46.41 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@mm-8-130-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by) |
| 00:46.41 | alterego | That's cool. |
| 00:46.43 | javispedro | aren't you completely overcomplicating stuff |
| 00:47.01 | DocScrutinizer | feels headache coming |
| 00:47.06 | Nirtal | btw, how do I display all files some package installed? |
| 00:47.07 | alterego | I wanted to do the same yesterday .. |
| 00:47.23 | alterego | (Use laptop as speaker phone for N900) |
| 00:47.47 | javispedro | I think I already said this but... I clicked on "Use my laptop as speakers for my phone" on Windows 7 and it all worked. |
| 00:47.57 | javispedro | It also has a textbox for dialing numbers. |
| 00:48.11 | javispedro | so, the N900 is not a weird phone in this regard. |
| 00:48.17 | javispedro | no need for ofono. |
| 00:48.17 | tripzero | oh, i assumed he meant linux desktop |
| 00:48.31 | *** join/#maemo merlin_1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 00:48.31 | tripzero | not windows... |
| 00:48.43 | tripzero | cuz i forget that people still actually use windows |
| 00:48.46 | tripzero | like javispedro |
| 00:49.03 | tripzero | hides |
| 00:49.08 | iDont | hehe |
| 00:49.12 | javispedro | even on linux desktop, just by connecting it via usb you can already hook to pnatd and start sending ATDT commands. |
| 00:49.30 | javispedro | (what do you think ofono does???) |
| 00:49.33 | tripzero | javispedro, yep, just cat the right ATDT commands and "win" |
| 00:49.49 | tripzero | javispedro, setting up the bluetooth connection to hsp? |
| 00:49.54 | tripzero | err hfp? |
| 00:49.55 | chx | HM original Warcraft II CD and Battle.net edition does not work?? |
| 00:50.11 | javispedro | tripzero: why ofono should do that? it's supposed to be a gsm stack, not a bt stack. |
| 00:50.20 | tripzero | javispedro, it does both |
| 00:50.26 | tripzero | it uses bluez |
| 00:50.31 | tripzero | for hfp modems |
| 00:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | *COUGH* |
| 00:50.47 | javispedro | this makes no sense. |
| 00:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | (ouch, that headache) |
| 00:51.32 | tripzero | http://ofono.org/wiki/hands-free-profile |
| 00:52.41 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ freed up 6.6GB on my PC /home, by tgz'ing a folder called Openmoko/images to a dusty partition labeled with a weird "D" |
| 00:53.32 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 00:54.05 | Nirtal | tripzero how can I see what files bluez installed? |
| 00:54.06 | javispedro | pft.http://padovan.org/blog/2010/02/handsfree-profile-into-bluez-and-ofono/ |
| 00:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | tripzero: I'd envision sth like: BT-HFP<->ofono<->modem |
| 00:54.44 | *** join/#maemo housetier (~housetier@pdpc/supporter/professional/housetier) |
| 00:55.11 | DocScrutinizer | rather than ofono<->BT-HFP<->modem |
| 00:55.25 | tripzero | well, it's actually probably: ofono -> bluez/HFP -> n900 |
| 00:55.37 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 00:55.37 | tripzero | ofono just sees the hfp phone as another "modem" |
| 00:55.57 | DocScrutinizer | (yay, that headache geting worse every minute) |
| 00:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | mubles 27b/6 27b/6 |
| 00:56.55 | alterego | Ah, nice that coffee has kicked in. |
| 00:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | COFFFEEEEE! |
| 00:57.15 | javispedro | getting rid of pulseaudio is going to become harder every day. |
| 00:57.42 | lolloo | am building maemo on a coffee machine |
| 00:58.01 | lolloo | hehehe |
| 00:58.01 | DocScrutinizer | it's like trying to get rid of hepa-C |
| 00:58.06 | lolloo | hahaahaaaa |
| 01:00.38 | cehteh | openoffice on the n900 has some wtf factor :P |
| 01:00.54 | lolloo | its pure amazing cehteh |
| 01:01.10 | cehteh | i am surprised that it works .. |
| 01:01.13 | javispedro | what the hell is going on on #meego |
| 01:01.15 | merlin_1991 | I gotta try the megoo chroot on the n900 :D |
| 01:01.26 | merlin_1991 | s/megoo/meego/ |
| 01:02.52 | cehteh | fasten seat belts please, starting iceweasel |
| 01:02.55 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: start and close. then swapoff your swapfile, and do again. time both |
| 01:03.02 | *** join/#maemo barisione (~barisione@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 01:03.09 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: useless benchmark |
| 01:03.16 | alterego | hahah |
| 01:03.37 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you mean I should get my coffee prepared first? |
| 01:03.41 | *** join/#maemo marnanel (~tthurman@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 01:03.45 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: didnt you once saied that emmc and uSD are on different busses and thus may scale/interleave a bit better? |
| 01:03.57 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: that would work :) but I was telling because second run will be inevatibly faster |
| 01:04.04 | javispedro | needs coffee too. |
| 01:04.05 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~user@121.1.18.241) |
| 01:04.11 | merlincorey | s/regex// |
| 01:04.14 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: at least i dont notice it slower now .. |
| 01:04.22 | *** join/#maemo abner (~Abner@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 01:04.28 | cehteh | just manually added that swap, nothing persistent yet |
| 01:04.32 | alterego | Been getting a lot of segfaults recently. |
| 01:04.41 | alterego | I must be losing the ability to code or something :/ |
| 01:04.59 | cehteh | not adjusted to the ballmer peak? |
| 01:05.11 | alterego | Oh, that was just an infinite recursion. |
| 01:05.24 | alterego | (caused by a search/replace gone haywire) ^.^ |
| 01:05.29 | cehteh | hands alterego an trampoline |
| 01:06.32 | cehteh | ok closing iceweasel makes my device lag .. but i didnt tied that with normal swap before :P |
| 01:06.39 | DocScrutinizer | waits for coffee to kick in, and enlightenment come down |
| 01:06.43 | *** join/#maemo timeless_webchat (58730824@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.115.8.36) |
| 01:06.52 | DocScrutinizer | why is second call faster? |
| 01:06.59 | merlin_1991 | wonders if the guys in here ever sleep |
| 01:07.02 | DocScrutinizer | except for buffers maybe |
| 01:07.07 | cehteh | second call? |
| 01:07.08 | timeless_webchat | merlin_1991: nah |
| 01:07.24 | cehteh | ah that |
| 01:07.32 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:07.32 | cehteh | yes but there is drop_caches |
| 01:07.39 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: buffers, frames will have been evicted to swap partition |
| 01:07.47 | *** join/#maemo rlinfati (~communi@host206-15-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 01:07.50 | javispedro | etc. |
| 01:07.56 | cehteh | and well with only 256MB true ram, there isnt really any ram wasted for buffers :P |
| 01:07.58 | DocScrutinizer | (OUCH that headache!!) |
| 01:08.17 | javispedro | cehteh: serioussssslyyyy if it seems too low for you, you should try a n810. |
| 01:08.18 | DocScrutinizer | you don't tell me friggin OS will swap out buffers, do you? |
| 01:08.44 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: no, but it will keep fresh, free RAM ready by the second run time |
| 01:09.11 | cehteh | javispedro: echo 3 >/proc/vm/drop_caches case fixed |
| 01:09.19 | javispedro | cehteh: it's not only about buffers |
| 01:09.31 | javispedro | you should also kill both swap partitions |
| 01:09.36 | javispedro | but that would also be cheating |
| 01:09.44 | cehteh | well possibly you can do the whole testing with a reboot, but that isnt really an use case |
| 01:10.02 | *** join/#maemo damnshock (~damnshock@178.67.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 01:10.05 | javispedro | because a) h-d would kill preloaded apps, b) the swap would be free which on the n900 means swapouts will go faster |
| 01:10.10 | cehteh | long time behaviour under one or 2 swap files would be the point |
| 01:10.19 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in usecases. I want to know if swapping got faster |
| 01:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | and *how much* |
| 01:10.42 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i am not interested in that :) .. |
| 01:10.54 | javispedro | because the answer is "it didn't" |
| 01:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 01:11.02 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:11.13 | internetishard | is there a music id program for maemo? |
| 01:11.30 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: you can raid0 and see .. actually with the power kernel and loopback devices i can do a small test .. |
| 01:11.45 | DocScrutinizer | I'd expect even with dedicated busses/IFs there's a mutual lock for access to eMMC and uSD |
| 01:11.50 | internetishard | I was envious when an iphone user started playing a song from his phone after exposing it to a ~4sec clip of that song about 30seconds prior |
| 01:11.54 | cehteh | loopback devices on files on each .. raid0 that and then dd test it |
| 01:12.27 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yeah can test that with this setup, that takes only a few minutes to setup moment |
| 01:12.54 | javispedro | cehteh: this is not a PC. |
| 01:13.03 | *** join/#maemo housetier (~housetier@pdpc/supporter/professional/housetier) |
| 01:13.13 | SpeedEvil | internetishard: As I understand it, that's server based. |
| 01:13.21 | SpeedEvil | internetishard: It uploads a clip to a server |
| 01:13.25 | cehteh | javispedro: but its still linux |
| 01:13.42 | DocScrutinizer | we got even a DMA for transfering blocks from IF to RAM, but I guess it's not a per-IF DMA |
| 01:13.55 | javispedro | on a PC, a hdd controller using a few unneeded museconds of host cpu time would be frowned upon |
| 01:13.56 | DocScrutinizer | and I dunno id it's at all used for this |
| 01:14.03 | internetishard | just found instictiv, maybe that will work, SpeedEvil |
| 01:14.06 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i am already testing .. wait a minute |
| 01:14.07 | javispedro | on embedded, it is the rule as long as it saves battery. |
| 01:14.19 | cehteh | (or more .. writing a 1gb file :P) |
| 01:14.56 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: you get much higher bandwidth dd'ng from both mmc and sd at once |
| 01:15.10 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: closely approaching the uncontended limit |
| 01:15.13 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: sounds nice |
| 01:15.21 | cehteh | ah ok stopping my tests then |
| 01:15.28 | SpeedEvil | That's for read |
| 01:15.38 | SpeedEvil | I don't think I tested write |
| 01:15.56 | cehteh | ok lemme test write .. bah |
| 01:16.18 | *** part/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@236-172.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 01:16.58 | javispedro | ~troll |
| 01:16.58 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, troll is webossucks |
| 01:17.00 | javispedro | hm... |
| 01:17.16 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: btw writing full speed gives slight dropouts while hearing netradio .. less dramatic than 1.2 |
| 01:17.18 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 01:17.52 | DocScrutinizer | ~troll javispedro |
| 01:17.52 | infobot | ACTION hereby declares javispedro a troll |
| 01:17.55 | *** join/#maemo melvin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 01:18.30 | javispedro | there needs to be a way to set per-channel fact-lets on infobot |
| 01:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | ~troll himself |
| 01:18.44 | infobot | ACTION hereby declares himself a troll |
| 01:18.52 | javispedro | s/fact-lets/factlets |
| 01:18.53 | DocScrutinizer | err, herself |
| 01:19.01 | internetishard | Is instinctiv the best song identification app for maemo? |
| 01:19.16 | cehteh | writing to uSD gives more dramatic dropouts |
| 01:19.31 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: there is, but you need to talk tim riker into enabling it for your channel |
| 01:19.42 | SpeedEvil | uSD probably has less predictable latency |
| 01:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | I got it for #openmoko and *-cdevel |
| 01:20.07 | cehteh | i mean my device is blocked now :P |
| 01:20.19 | cehteh | grr :) |
| 01:20.28 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: that's what I meant |
| 01:20.40 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: does it create an entirely separate database? or is it a per-factlet setting? |
| 01:20.47 | cehteh | yeah .. unfortunally dd has no --bwlimit :P |
| 01:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | there's some ugly nasty bug somewhere, killing device on concurrent IO on both uSD and emmc |
| 01:21.14 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i could even suspect some bug which sends the kernel out for lunch |
| 01:21.21 | cehteh | yep |
| 01:21.24 | DocScrutinizer | it has nothing to do with bandwidth |
| 01:21.24 | javispedro | .oO(probably not a bug...) |
| 01:21.40 | javispedro | but a plain limitation. |
| 01:21.42 | cehteh | ok i declare this kernel as dead |
| 01:21.56 | cehteh | if the kernel hangs its a bug |
| 01:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: if it were no bug, then device would recover *eventually* |
| 01:22.15 | javispedro | there you have. cehteh just answered DocScrutinizer's question about PR1.3 cp big_stuff /sd |
| 01:22.23 | DocScrutinizer | yeas |
| 01:22.26 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 01:22.31 | cehteh | nah ... eventually it came back!! |
| 01:22.42 | DocScrutinizer | that's what I meant by that's what I meant |
| 01:22.54 | javispedro | I'm quite sure the kernel doesn't hang. just enters swap hell. |
| 01:23.04 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 01:23.50 | DocScrutinizer | still a bug |
| 01:23.52 | javispedro | in swap hell a thousand daemons will keep him busy for eternity allocating memory! |
| 01:24.03 | cehteh | not swap hell didnt swapped much |
| 01:24.36 | javispedro | doesn't matter. even if it just tried to swap a bit, which it probably did. |
| 01:24.54 | javispedro | I'd play with different io schedulers. |
| 01:24.56 | cehteh | is there mdadm packages .. /me tries |
| 01:25.03 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: on ass rage mode, cp uSD emmc even raped my desktop CPU with wchan 100 |
| 01:25.04 | cehteh | damn no |
| 01:30.54 | *** part/#maemo damnshock (~damnshock@178.67.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 01:31.53 | cehteh | mhn now i need a female:female dongle to try out hostmode ... :] |
| 01:32.17 | cehteh | no electronics shop open at night :P |
| 01:32.20 | alterego | I got one when I got my N810 all those many many months ago. |
| 01:32.30 | cehteh | haha |
| 01:32.33 | alterego | Actually, it was probably the N800 |
| 01:33.16 | *** join/#maemo dolppp (dolphin@cs181202191.pp.htv.fi) |
| 01:33.28 | cehteh | must D+/D- be crossed? |
| 01:33.47 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer? |
| 01:33.57 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 01:34.13 | cehteh | i can solder, but i dont know usb specs :) |
| 01:34.18 | alterego | Heh |
| 01:34.32 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I'd guess no |
| 01:34.33 | cehteh | not a single bit :P |
| 01:34.35 | cehteh | ok |
| 01:34.40 | alterego | Mine doesn't. |
| 01:35.08 | DocScrutinizer | see wiki.openmoko.org/specialized_usb_cables or similar |
| 01:35.17 | cehteh | i am too old .. with such hack i am always thinking about a null-modem |
| 01:36.00 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Specialized_USB_cables |
| 01:36.08 | cehteh | hell ya .. there was once this guy who made an adapter for PC hard drives for his Atari .. which had the opposite endianess |
| 01:36.16 | cehteh | just by flipping the cable :) |
| 01:37.33 | alterego | Heh |
| 01:38.46 | cehteh | endianess correction in hardware .. today someone would start with some FPGA :P |
| 01:39.18 | nox- | haha |
| 01:39.43 | *** join/#maemo mhmh (~mh@moff.pucko.org) |
| 01:40.43 | alterego | Weird, I wonder why nothing seems to be working now. |
| 01:41.00 | alterego | My app wont even initialize the GPS hardware anymore :( |
| 01:41.02 | nox- | was an atari user too back in the days (anyone remember MiNT?) - they had something called acsi (iirc), which could be interfaced to scsi easily enough (i had a 240 M quantum scsi disk in an atari) |
| 01:43.06 | Nirtal | tripzero still here? |
| 01:43.08 | alterego | This is quite frustrating. |
| 01:43.13 | cehteh | alterego: C/C++? |
| 01:43.20 | alterego | Qt/C++ |
| 01:43.50 | tripzero | Nirtal, yeh |
| 01:43.53 | tripzero | for a few seconds |
| 01:44.40 | Nirtal | isn't bluez default bluetooth program in maemo 5 n900? |
| 01:44.43 | cehteh | alterego: http://lumiera.org/nobug_manual.html (okok Qt has its own stuff for that iirc) |
| 01:45.01 | tripzero | Nirtal, yeha |
| 01:45.25 | cehteh | qt isnt really C++ anymore :P |
| 01:45.37 | tripzero | Qt has extended C++ |
| 01:45.43 | Nirtal | You mean like i should do something like this, use bluez on my phone as a hfp modem/server and then use ofone on my pc to connect to my hfp? |
| 01:46.32 | alterego | cehteh: the problem is actually in qt mobility I believe. |
| 01:46.37 | tripzero | Nirtal, pair your phone up with your computer. install ofono. use ofono scripts to make phonecalls. profit! |
| 01:47.06 | tripzero | Nirtal, in short: http://ofono.org/wiki/hands-free-profile |
| 01:47.13 | cehteh | alterego: no idea, this was just a nice place to put an ad :) |
| 01:47.20 | alterego | Hewh |
| 01:47.28 | Nirtal | ok, couldn't see any ofone things for windows directly. no precompiled? |
| 01:47.38 | tripzero | oh, you are using windows? |
| 01:47.40 | tripzero | doh! |
| 01:47.42 | ieatlint | alterego: i have experience this problem with qtmobility/libqtm-location |
| 01:47.46 | ieatlint | experienced |
| 01:47.50 | tripzero | Nirtal, win7? |
| 01:47.55 | ieatlint | you're not alone :P |
| 01:47.57 | Nirtal | yes |
| 01:48.05 | tripzero | if so, talk to jacekowski about just making it work |
| 01:48.17 | tripzero | he apparently has done it |
| 01:48.19 | tripzero | gtg |
| 01:48.22 | Nirtal | ok |
| 01:48.25 | cehteh | n8 |
| 01:48.26 | Nirtal | thnx for the help Trewas |
| 01:48.28 | Nirtal | tripzero |
| 01:49.23 | Nirtal | jacekowski are you here? |
| 01:50.01 | alterego | ieatlint: yeah, I remember someone telling me, I guess it was probably you. |
| 01:50.05 | alterego | ieatlint: did you get a fix? |
| 01:51.08 | muellisoft | hm. can I make my N900 connect to the Internet via Bluetooth over my other phone? I guess I want the N900 to do DUN with my other phone... |
| 01:51.35 | alterego | Muelli: yes you can. |
| 01:51.49 | alterego | There's a bluetooth DUN package in extras |
| 01:52.33 | Muelli | alterego: nice. I've installed that. How do I use it? *blush* I don't see anything in Settings nor a new application |
| 01:52.36 | ieatlint | alterego: nope :( |
| 01:52.54 | DocScrutinizer | Nirtal: check backscroll/irc-chanlog |
| 01:53.01 | alterego | Muelli: just turn bluetooth on |
| 01:53.27 | Muelli | alterego: nah. I don't want my N900 to provide DUN. I want to make it *use* DUN from my *other* phone :) |
| 01:53.32 | ieatlint | although i can say that the test application i wrote to try and figure wtf is going on has much better reliability than my app where i tried to actually use the data |
| 01:53.50 | alterego | Muelli: oh, then you don't need to install bluetooth dun .. |
| 01:53.59 | alterego | Muelli: the N900 can do it by default. |
| 01:54.48 | Muelli | alterego: olry?! I thought I had looked everywhere. I haven't a GUI for that yet. Is there any? If so, could me point me to it? |
| 01:55.00 | alterego | Muelli: Settings->Internet Connections->Connections->New |
| 01:55.03 | Nirtal | DocScrutinizer any specific word I can search to find? |
| 01:55.04 | Muelli | i know my N810 can... And I guess the Linux on the N900 is well capable of doing that. |
| 01:55.50 | Muelli | alterego: that fires up the WLAN wizard. In the second page, I can't select anything else than "WLAN" |
| 01:55.53 | alterego | Hrm, I might be wrong .. |
| 01:55.59 | alterego | Muelli: yeah, just noticed that. |
| 01:56.01 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-11-09 01:47:47] <javispedro> I think I already said this but... I clicked on "Use my laptop as speakers for my phone" on Windows 7 and it all worked. |
| 01:56.01 | alterego | : |
| 01:56.05 | alterego | :( |
| 01:56.10 | alterego | Sorry, I was obviously mistaken. |
| 01:56.24 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-11-09 01:47:56] <javispedro> It also has a textbox for dialing numbers. |
| 01:57.22 | javispedro | ... and it all started by right clicking the bluetooth icon on the notification area. |
| 01:58.25 | Muelli | alterego: people apparently have tried that: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=434448&postcount=3 :) Lemme see what I can get from that. |
| 01:58.46 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I don't use W7 :P |
| 01:59.08 | alterego | Muelli: good find. |
| 01:59.26 | javispedro | Muelli: there's a bluetooth-dun package in extras |
| 02:00.24 | alterego | javispedro: he's doing the opposite, he wants the N900 to use another bluetooth modem |
| 02:00.54 | javispedro | ah. |
| 02:01.15 | javispedro | probably broken since fremantle.. |
| 02:01.37 | alterego | More likely disabled .. |
| 02:01.57 | internetishard | ug |
| 02:02.02 | internetishard | instinctiv doesn't recognize shit |
| 02:02.04 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_DUN |
| 02:03.45 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: again, it's the opposite, he wants the N900 to use another devices DUN service ... |
| 02:03.48 | alterego | -_- |
| 02:03.50 | Muelli | DocScrutinizer: It describes very well how it works on the N810, but not on N900 ;-) |
| 02:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | </quote> |
| 02:04.19 | *** join/#maemo fab (~bellet@bellet.info) |
| 02:04.20 | alterego | You have to take the SIM out to enable that? |
| 02:04.23 | alterego | :/ |
| 02:04.30 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 02:05.11 | Muelli | nah. I don't buy that. What is a "data SIM" anyway..? It just reads "it may". Which is big euphemism ;-) Of course it "may", if you configure rfcomm, ppp and friends ;-) |
| 02:05.26 | alterego | Muelli: agreed ;) |
| 02:06.08 | DocScrutinizer | wtf? |
| 02:06.36 | *** part/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-24-14-196-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:07.10 | DocScrutinizer | would you please try if N8x0 method to tether a phone to NIT also works on N900/fremantle. Rather than doing linguistic dissect |
| 02:07.22 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: we've been through this. |
| 02:07.30 | alterego | There is no option other than wifi |
| 02:07.32 | DocScrutinizer | duh, aha |
| 02:07.52 | alterego | If you'd paid attention you would have known this :P |
| 02:07.52 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-221-163.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:07.55 | DocScrutinizer | you're sure you paired the device prior to that? |
| 02:07.56 | Muelli | wtf? Would you read what's been posted twice or thrice by now? ;-) |
| 02:08.01 | Muelli | DocScrutinizer: twice ;-) |
| 02:08.04 | alterego | I have a paired a device. |
| 02:08.13 | alterego | Which has DUN yes :P |
| 02:08.17 | Nirtal | javispedro have you succeded in making calls from you computer though the phone? |
| 02:08.55 | javispedro | yes... |
| 02:09.29 | javispedro | however, a few days ago someone said here that pr1.3 broke his headset |
| 02:09.33 | javispedro | so, ymmv |
| 02:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | :-O |
| 02:10.50 | Nirtal | javispedro how did you do? |
| 02:11.18 | Nirtal | How did you conf you n900, and how did you conf you computer? |
| 02:11.23 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.222.95) |
| 02:11.36 | Macer | hello |
| 02:11.42 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: ...broke his headset?? how is that? and ...related to "making calls from you computer" |
| 02:11.57 | javispedro | On the N900 I had bluetooth-dun; on the desktop I used win7. |
| 02:12.17 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: because I guess there's a hidden "with audio coming through desktop spekears" assupmtion there. |
| 02:12.37 | Macer | omg.. avatar collecters edition? |
| 02:12.42 | Macer | seriously? |
| 02:12.57 | *** join/#maemo hcm_ (~hcm@port-92-193-27-127.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:12.59 | Macer | it is reasons like that... that people pirate movies :) |
| 02:13.11 | Nirtal | javispedro do you have anything moore then windows 7 |
| 02:13.13 | Nirtal | ? |
| 02:13.27 | Nirtal | some program to handle it all? |
| 02:13.33 | javispedro | Nirtal: ah |
| 02:13.55 | javispedro | Nirtal: broadcom stack? not sure, OEM crap. Either way I was using windows client. |
| 02:15.22 | Nirtal | ok, I install bluetooth-dun. what's the next step? |
| 02:17.02 | javispedro | try it? |
| 02:17.25 | javispedro | I always tell that story because I didn't have to do a thing. It just worked. |
| 02:17.44 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~user@121.1.18.241) |
| 02:18.06 | javispedro | In fact I was booting windows because I wanted to test garminchatd (aka my little program that makes n900 talk garmin protocol) |
| 02:18.41 | javispedro | and while setting up the serial port profile I noticed the many options on the device page and started testing them. |
| 02:19.30 | alterego | Heh |
| 02:27.00 | alterego | Right, I think it's time for bed now. |
| 02:27.03 | alterego | g'night folks. |
| 02:27.30 | Termana | good night alterego |
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| 03:00.17 | fredrin | hay |
| 03:00.49 | fredrin | how can i copy contact to simcard? |
| 03:01.34 | fredrin | nooo you can't |
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| 04:01.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | no you can't (except *maybe* by using gnokii via pnatd - I'd not start to try this. too much hassle) |
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| 04:44.00 | VOA | hello all |
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| 04:44.18 | VOA | is it possible to use the n900 wifi to give wifi to the ipod touch while round the city? |
| 04:46.09 | nox- | i think you need kernel-power for that, and mobilehotspot |
| 04:46.53 | VOA | so there is no way we can give the ipod touch wifi while round the city using the wifi of n900 maby from usb? |
| 04:47.31 | nox- | eh? |
| 04:48.21 | nox- | mobilehotspot is the package name |
| 04:48.27 | nox- | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/mobilehotspot/ |
| 04:48.32 | nox- | http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power |
| 04:50.53 | VOA | so we install that on n900 and should give power to wifi comunicate ad hoc |
| 04:50.59 | VOA | with the ipod touch right? |
| 04:52.20 | VOA | as i am not expert did i understand right :)? |
| 04:53.06 | nox- | dunno about adhoc but ap mode should work |
| 04:53.51 | VOA | i hope it does so i can also have internet on ipod touch everywhere using the n900 wifi :) |
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| 04:56.40 | VOA | the mac chan is full of fan boys lol |
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| 05:26.54 | DocScrutinizer | VOA: what do you want to do exactly? use N900 to access WLAN hotspots, and tether the N900 to iPod via USB? |
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| 05:27.37 | DocScrutinizer | VOA: or do you simply want to access the internets via N900 GSM, and tether to iPod via WLAN? |
| 05:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack |
| 05:28.27 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 05:29.42 | VOA | no i wanted a way to have internet on my ipod touch when i am outside |
| 05:29.48 | VOA | using n900 wifi |
| 05:29.57 | VOA | so i can have it round the city on ipod touch also |
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| 05:34.42 | OCTOLITHIC | man... anyone else having problems with nokia PC/OVI suite? |
| 05:36.15 | OCTOLITHIC | I wouldn't have to use this crapware at all if I could do PR1.3 OTA... |
| 05:37.22 | VOA | i can't wait xmas to get n900 |
| 05:37.40 | VOA | in comparsion to surfing speed test vs iphone 4 who wins? |
| 05:38.48 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@187.58.103.253) |
| 05:38.51 | OCTOLITHIC | whoever has the better network in your area |
| 05:39.19 | VOA | i think n900 and ipod touch are a great combo |
| 05:40.00 | DocScrutinizer | VOA: fine, you answered my A_or_B multiple choice question by repeating your ambiguous definition of your usecase |
| 05:40.53 | VOA | and is that bad or good and what answers did i give :)? |
| 05:41.25 | VOA | as i use one as internet tablet and all the linux power it has to offer and one for uber store apps |
| 05:42.54 | DocScrutinizer | shakes head with a sad face... "is it just me?" |
| 05:43.21 | VOA | maby you are a fan boy ahha |
| 05:43.28 | OCTOLITHIC | DocScrutinizer: nope :P |
| 05:43.33 | VOA | i use everything and that what works for me as Bruce Lee sas |
| 05:43.34 | VOA | says |
| 05:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | *sigh* |
| 05:43.45 | VOA | purism now days dosen't go far integration is the future |
| 05:44.53 | DocScrutinizer | thanks, I'll use that for this weeks mantra - was desparately seeking for one with such a deep wisdom |
| 05:45.04 | VOA | np |
| 05:45.32 | OCTOLITHIC | Let me try something real quick. |
| 05:45.34 | DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn |
| 05:45.34 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is nap |
| 05:46.09 | DocScrutinizer | even infobot thinks I shouldn't participate in this any longer |
| 05:50.32 | VOA | hi infobot |
| 05:50.53 | VOA | does he reply hah? |
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| 05:56.18 | lolloo | is infobot a bot? |
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| 06:24.04 | timeless_webchat | infobot: infobot ? |
| 06:24.04 | infobot | hmm... infobot is in need of training, can someone train me? |
| 06:28.33 | RobbieThe1st | infobot: no |
| 06:28.42 | RobbieThe1st | Dang... |
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| 06:38.02 | VOA | lelly kelly are my little shoes o yea ! |
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| 06:55.07 | OCTOLITHIC | Ugh... F**K OVI suite in it's little cornhole... I'm just gonna have to flash this damn thing to get PR1.3... Ugh... |
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| 06:56.36 | RobbieThe1st | Just back things up and reflash |
| 06:57.45 | OCTOLITHIC | Yeah, wouldn't be the first time... I just wish reinstalling everything from the repos didn't take so long. |
| 06:58.22 | RobbieThe1st | Yea, true. I figure it's unavoidable when doing a PR upgrade, other than that though... that's what OS images are for |
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| 07:01.00 | OCTOLITHIC | True. I suppose I should use this opportunity to become more familiar with linuix. Although I can't help but feel like I'm missing out. My generation doesn't have to configure thier own kernels or anything. My peers ignorance, MY ignorance, could fill several olympic swimming pools (and then some). |
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| 07:07.33 | RobbieThe1st | OCTOLITHIC: I know -some- people have upgraded using apt-get dist-upgrade, but I'm not sure on the specifics |
| 07:08.33 | RobbieThe1st | In my case, I used it as an opportunity to deal with the "bit-rot" accumulating after who-knows-how many image backup and restore cycles |
| 07:11.39 | OCTOLITHIC | Mmm, I'm sure I could stand to simplify as well. Now that I've lived with this thing for almost a year I should have a better idea about what I will and won't end up using. |
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| 07:12.53 | FillinG | Yup bros, my name str8 cold chilli Tomek B I repp north Phoenix, fill me/ i'ma try 2 be's a rappa n shit, here's some hot beatz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kL9wv3kMSU <-- CHECK THIS HOT SHIT AND TELL ME WHAT U THINK, FEEL ME? |
| 07:13.41 | lucent | I feel nauseated. Does that count, spammity spam spam? |
| 07:14.27 | Termana | lucent, show me on the doll where you felt him |
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| 07:14.38 | lucent | OCTOLITHIC: it's just a !@#$ computer thing, you know, I think it is not magic after using these computer things for 20+ years |
| 07:14.42 | lucent | ha |
| 07:15.05 | lucent | concedes to Termana for-the-win |
| 07:16.06 | RobbieThe1st | ^^ |
| 07:18.57 | OCTOLITHIC | uses MEMORY OF A GOLDFISH to forget why he was angry in the first place. |
| 07:19.12 | *** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.16.128) |
| 07:19.41 | lucent | ugh I need HANDS OF STEEL to open this lousy cap on a wine bottle |
| 07:20.46 | lucent | in related to maemo news, I successfully used the power user kernel with aircrack-ng and kismet for some wifi fun |
| 07:21.08 | *** join/#maemo ppenz (~ppenz@cm189-78.liwest.at) |
| 07:21.14 | lucent | it's kind of honest-novelty to have aircrack in my pocket. |
| 07:21.29 | psycho_oreos | been there done that |
| 07:21.50 | Termana | lucent, novelty? You should be cracking some wireless networks son, get some free wifi |
| 07:21.57 | Termana | :P (I'm kidding actually, but anyhow) |
| 07:22.15 | Termana | WiFi is too inconvenient. |
| 07:22.51 | lucent | you know for the sake of posturing myself as a ... "law abiding citizen" or community partiticipant, not into bragging about the illicit |
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| 07:23.31 | lucent | it's just really pleasing to see that the wifi driver had no support, someone said "hey I fixed it, here's the patch", and all now benefit |
| 07:24.19 | psycho_oreos | I think the wifi chipset has had support since nokia hired a guy to work on it |
| 07:24.45 | lucent | I am not clear about injection support, do you know if that facet is working? |
| 07:25.49 | psycho_oreos | it is working if one gets neopwn v2 |
| 07:26.26 | lucent | oh, I will investigate |
| 07:26.35 | psycho_oreos | and that project has faced lots of scrutinisation that the core dev pretty much decided to drop the project I suspect |
| 07:27.13 | crashanddie | loads of empty promises and shattered expectations |
| 07:27.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | yo |
| 07:27.36 | lucent | sad face. |
| 07:27.49 | crashanddie | lucent: the driver is out in the nature |
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| 07:29.35 | crashanddie | greetings, DocScrutinizer51 |
| 07:29.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | o/ |
| 07:30.00 | psycho_oreos | heh *shrugs* I guess one has to move on, sure it was quite annoying that it seems like what was an epic thing but at the end just seems to be one small step |
| 07:30.16 | khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:31.04 | lucent | I'm still confused by neopwn, it looks like a closed source project? |
| 07:31.15 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: i don't blame the lead anymore, though |
| 07:31.22 | crashanddie | lucent: completely |
| 07:31.44 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: he just tried. Didn't work out, got sick of wasting his time. |
| 07:32.07 | lucent | difficult to believe that it would be linux based, and not be based on existing GPL code (and thus GPL'ed by nature)... or .. what |
| 07:32.37 | crashanddie | lucent: he's not releasing the GPL code, even though he has to |
| 07:32.50 | lucent | oh! one of /those/ |
| 07:33.04 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, *shrugs* oh well at least he made a dent in the what was supposedly deliberately removed feature (or at least I suspect) so I guess if one were curious enough, in theory could remake one that would be free and open |
| 07:33.23 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: sure |
| 07:33.34 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: not sure it was deliberately not included |
| 07:33.48 | crashanddie | err |
| 07:34.05 | crashanddie | sorry, early morning, I meant: I'm pretty sure it was not removed, rather never included. |
| 07:34.52 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, I dunno, not saying that injection support was never added but there was an old blog post detailing prior to PR1.2 that injection was working with power kernel supposedly.. that was later then either not incorporated or was broken and later mended (which did not become part of the released kernel version) |
| 07:35.16 | crashanddie | nha, that's bollocks |
| 07:35.52 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~Fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 07:35.54 | lucent | what is the test to know if injection is working/ |
| 07:36.04 | crashanddie | lucent: inject packets :D |
| 07:36.05 | psycho_oreos | ahh ok *shrugs* at least it seems like injection support can be added in separately, one pretty much just need the right sources and the tarballs to create it.. or so I believe |
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| 07:36.22 | lucent | looks on, dumbfounded but willing to learn |
| 07:36.36 | psycho_oreos | there's a switch under aircrack-ng binary itself |
| 07:36.40 | lucent | crashanddie: i.e. fakeauth or areplay? |
| 07:36.48 | crashanddie | lucent: it's just a matter of grabbing aircrack and -0 |
| 07:36.52 | lucent | oh |
| 07:36.59 | crashanddie | test-ping routers |
| 07:37.04 | psycho_oreos | best to read aircrack-ng docs, its very well documented but there's far to many that uses the tools and never bothered to fully read the docs |
| 07:37.18 | khertan | finally found a work around for QTBUG-15140 |
| 07:37.29 | crashanddie | anyway, have to go to work |
| 07:37.35 | psycho_oreos | err not aircrack-ng binary, aireplay-ng |
| 07:37.36 | crashanddie | will be on the other account in half an hour or so |
| 07:37.51 | crashanddie | 'later |
| 07:37.52 | lucent | I've read the docs, more or less, mostly more |
| 07:37.58 | lucent | you're referring to deauth? |
| 07:38.03 | psycho_oreos | o.O cya |
| 07:38.09 | psycho_oreos | no injection test |
| 07:38.25 | lucent | reads manual page '-0' refers to deauth |
| 07:38.36 | psycho_oreos | well with deauth you'd be looking at the same binary anyway |
| 07:38.46 | psycho_oreos | but the same binary has switch to test inject |
| 07:39.47 | crashanddie | woops |
| 07:39.48 | lucent | oh -9 then |
| 07:39.49 | crashanddie | not deauth then |
| 07:39.50 | crashanddie | -0 |
| 07:39.52 | crashanddie | -9 |
| 07:39.54 | crashanddie | crap |
| 07:40.09 | lucent | it's okay I'm merely curious about whether I had injection actually going or not |
| 07:40.17 | psycho_oreos | there's plenty of switches in aireplay-ng :) |
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| 07:40.27 | crashanddie | lucent: you don't |
| 07:40.35 | crashanddie | anyway |
| 07:40.36 | crashanddie | later |
| 07:40.41 | lucent | cracked my 40-bit wep key and some things appeared like aireplay was actually sending out packets, but I don't know if that meant injection worked |
| 07:41.09 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 07:41.43 | psycho_oreos | well with injection test you can see that if its actually working, it will say so and if you wanted to doublecheck you can have another boxen running airodump-ng/kismet.. and see all the fake clients trying to auth./assoc. with the targeted AP |
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| 07:41.55 | psycho_oreos | just do injection test |
| 07:43.58 | lucent | =) |
| 07:44.03 | lucent | thank you psycho_oreos |
| 07:44.17 | psycho_oreos | nw |
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| 07:46.49 | RobbieThe1st | headdesks - Note to self: Always check that the application you are trying to call -exists- before doing extensive debug work on why it's not working. |
| 07:47.02 | RobbieThe1st | Doubly so for semi-builtins like "expr" |
| 07:47.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | semi? |
| 07:48.10 | RobbieThe1st | It's part of busybox, but requires a symlink or call through busybox |
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| 07:48.53 | *** join/#maemo raster (raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 07:49.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, that's how messybox does this |
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| 07:49.56 | RobbieThe1st | Yea. And forgetting that you don't have a symlink to it can be -very- problematic. Variables turning up empty, things just blank... |
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| 07:51.14 | raster | DocScrutinizer51: doc! \o/ |
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| 07:53.12 | timeless_webchat | http://cartoonbox.slate.com/hottopic/?image=23&topicid=340 :) |
| 07:54.11 | DocScrutinizer | hi raster |
| 07:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: set -e |
| 07:55.22 | RobbieThe1st | ? |
| 07:55.50 | psycho_oreos | how important are the /sys files under n900? |
| 07:55.51 | DocScrutinizer | -e Exit immediately if a command exits with a non-zero status. |
| 07:55.56 | psycho_oreos | I suppose very? :) |
| 07:57.10 | RobbieThe1st | That would be -very- problematic in my case, considering that would mean dropping out of any user-interface without unmounting any and all drives, and ending up hanging... |
| 07:57.14 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: -u Treat unset variables as an error when substituting. (also strongly recommended :-D ) |
| 07:57.51 | DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: nope |
| 07:57.53 | raster | psycho_oreos: why? |
| 07:58.12 | raster | they are too big and u want to delete them? |
| 07:58.13 | raster | :) |
| 07:58.27 | RobbieThe1st | Well, that would work fine... IF the frigging n900 had a proper framebuffer kernel by default! Instead, I have to work with text2screen for my output |
| 07:58.56 | RobbieThe1st | Remember: I'm not running inside Maemo. I'm running inside what is essentially a pre-boot environment. |
| 07:59.18 | DocScrutinizer | don't see the problem anyway |
| 07:59.46 | psycho_oreos | raster, I did a dar backup of maemo rootfs, was tinkering around last night and sort of screwed up (it'll boot but with blank screen when X.org is loaded.. So I reflashed it and restored the complete dar file which caused the device to completely malfunction and do several boot loops.. now I'm in the process of sifting through the critical files that shouldn't be overwritten with the files that should be overwritten or otherwise copied to save myself time |
| 07:59.47 | psycho_oreos | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:00.07 | DocScrutinizer | a properly written program is supposed to catch and check *all* return codes anyway (except malloc) |
| 08:00.20 | kerio | why not malloc |
| 08:00.56 | DocScrutinizer | err, iirc raster convinced me it doesn't make sense as you can't react if you're out of mem |
| 08:01.22 | kerio | yes you can |
| 08:01.31 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:01.32 | DocScrutinizer | so only thing you can do is exit program, and that's what a malloc failing should do |
| 08:01.34 | kerio | printf("OMGWTFBBQ\n"); exit(1); |
| 08:01.35 | RobbieThe1st | I'm running a large shell-script, written in busybox's ash. As I have no access to stdout/stderr by default(no framebuffer), I can only get return errors and values if I specifically grab that output(e.g. to a file) |
| 08:01.42 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: no mem |
| 08:01.53 | DocScrutinizer | printf will fail |
| 08:01.54 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d5152E781.static.telenet.be) |
| 08:02.02 | kerio | huh? even if it's compiled in? |
| 08:02.31 | psycho_oreos | raster, any ideas/comments? :) |
| 08:02.32 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 08:02.43 | *** part/#maemo budfive (~opera@cpe-98-154-48-97.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 08:03.56 | timeless_webchat | sp3000: you awake? |
| 08:04.07 | timeless_webchat | my network / dns died, and i can't seem to resolve *.work |
| 08:04.25 | kerio | nokia has a whole TLD? |
| 08:04.26 | kerio | nice |
| 08:05.25 | timeless_webchat | nah |
| 08:05.37 | timeless_webchat | but it does have a policy against disclosing network architecture |
| 08:06.06 | raster | ppsy sorry .. real life distracting me. |
| 08:06.15 | raster | psycho_oreos: sorry .. real life distracting me. |
| 08:06.20 | raster | ummm /sys is a virtual fs |
| 08:06.22 | Termana | timeless_webchat, does it have a policy about disclosing what isn't in the network architecture? :p |
| 08:06.22 | raster | its not real files |
| 08:06.25 | raster | u never have to back iot up |
| 08:06.30 | raster | or copy things in and out |
| 08:06.33 | RobbieThe1st | Yea |
| 08:06.36 | raster | its generated on the fly by the kernel |
| 08:06.49 | kerio | so... nokia's internal network does *not* have a TLD |
| 08:06.50 | raster | it is just an api (so tospeak) to get information in and out of the kernel |
| 08:06.52 | raster | like /proc |
| 08:07.01 | *** join/#maemo ppenz (~ppenz@cm189-78.liwest.at) |
| 08:07.04 | raster | so dont ever bother backing up or restoring /sys |
| 08:07.11 | raster | as writing to files in /sys could do.. bad things |
| 08:07.12 | RobbieThe1st | same with /proc and /dev generally |
| 08:07.14 | raster | (depending on what they are) |
| 08:08.17 | psycho_oreos | raster, fair enough, I did get lots of errors when trying to do a dar on it, similar with /proc.. So I suppose in theory its best to delete those from de-archived dar file and to exclude them along with /dev /.dev |
| 08:08.18 | raster | DocScrutinizer: well u cant react to general "small malloc" failures |
| 08:08.24 | raster | eg malloc of a struct, linked lists etc. |
| 08:08.40 | raster | u basicall ylose all ability to do any kind of dynamic allocation when u run out of ram for accounting reasons |
| 08:08.46 | raster | u cant maintain lists anymore etc. |
| 08:08.48 | raster | BUt |
| 08:08.55 | raster | u can recover from malloc failures |
| 08:09.02 | raster | eg if u are trying to malloc 1gb of ram |
| 08:09.02 | DocScrutinizer | sure you can try to catch a mmap |
| 08:09.14 | raster | for lets say... a satellite image of the world u are decoding |
| 08:09.24 | raster | then thats easy to trap and recover from |
| 08:09.30 | DocScrutinizer | yesyes |
| 08:09.36 | raster | as u simlpy fail the loader of that 1 massive 1gb image pixel blob |
| 08:09.42 | raster | thats sane to recover from |
| 08:09.46 | kerio | i want a TLD |
| 08:10.00 | DocScrutinizer | it's sane to *try* - you'll never know |
| 08:10.06 | raster | u cant sanely recover from the general case of malloced structs, strings, lists, hashes etc. that are part of the reality of writing a modern app |
| 08:10.13 | raster | (of reasonable complexity) |
| 08:11.02 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~asolsson@nat/nokia/x-cmjiyupqmwwdcxvt) |
| 08:11.04 | *** join/#maemo fabo (~fabo@nat/nokia/x-xfmwbeonanqdkoys) |
| 08:11.10 | RobbieThe1st | Raster, would you mind please typing "you" instead of just "u"? |
| 08:11.33 | raster | RobbieThe1st: why? |
| 08:11.58 | kerio | you should've used "y?" there |
| 08:12.06 | raster | wonders if he should come up with an excuse for not having done the homework for RobbieThe1st |
| 08:12.15 | DocScrutinizer | raster: the original aspect was you shall check all return codes, and not just ignore everything running hovok. Just for malloc this rule isn't that strict |
| 08:12.24 | RobbieThe1st | For one, because it's not English |
| 08:12.34 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: so i shouldn't use On Error Resume Next? :( |
| 08:12.38 | khertan | lol |
| 08:12.49 | khertan | oups wrong windows |
| 08:13.10 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: ehh?? |
| 08:13.14 | raster | DocScrutinizer: oh of course... but... in apps and libs that are already 100,000 lines of code long |
| 08:13.16 | raster | or bigger |
| 08:13.25 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: ;) |
| 08:13.32 | raster | and possible every 3rd or 4th line contains a func that could fail |
| 08:13.37 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@202.91.18.194) |
| 08:13.42 | kerio | raster: you check for every one of them |
| 08:13.43 | kerio | srsly |
| 08:13.45 | *** join/#maemo ab[out] (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab) |
| 08:13.47 | raster | and to handle that u have to add another 4, 5 or more liens of code to "unroll and handle the failure" |
| 08:13.55 | raster | a 100,000 line app becomes 500,000 |
| 08:14.05 | raster | its unmaintainable |
| 08:14.08 | RobbieThe1st | Yes, which is called "good practice" |
| 08:14.21 | raster | good luck with that |
| 08:14.21 | raster | :) |
| 08:14.22 | DocScrutinizer | raster: for such things you got traps, catches or whatever your flavour is called |
| 08:14.49 | raster | RobbieThe1st: is there a rewuirement that i speak correct queens engllish here and type it perfectly? |
| 08:15.10 | raster | ooh .. i'm surprised u havent complained about mmy lack of using capitals |
| 08:15.23 | raster | DocScrutinizer: good luck in handling all such errors that way |
| 08:15.33 | *** join/#maemo frade_ (~ivan@nat/nokia/x-rxlkldtflohfymmz) |
| 08:15.36 | DocScrutinizer | raster: meh! |
| 08:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | read backscroll |
| 08:15.47 | raster | u are half way thru 50 lines of code |
| 08:15.51 | raster | that init some struct u malloced |
| 08:15.54 | raster | and mallco more things |
| 08:15.58 | raster | and create more objects |
| 08:16.06 | raster | then suddenly u append something to a list |
| 08:16.10 | raster | and list node alloc fails |
| 08:16.12 | raster | u cant append |
| 08:16.17 | raster | u can have a trap |
| 08:16.20 | raster | and then what? |
| 08:16.30 | raster | u have to reverse back freeing everything u partly allocated/set up |
| 08:16.33 | raster | to the parent func |
| 08:16.39 | raster | and that parent func has to do the same |
| 08:16.41 | raster | and so on |
| 08:16.44 | RobbieThe1st | There are a number of things I am bothered by. But using "u" instead of "you" is something that disgusts me. I would be very happy if you took the time to use capitals and actually write out full sentences, but I'll take what I can get. |
| 08:16.46 | DocScrutinizer | then the trap handler will aslo throw error. So what? |
| 08:16.54 | raster | in the end how do u copy? u need to inform the user "i'm out of memory" |
| 08:17.02 | raster | but i cant alloc memory for the dialog to tell them that |
| 08:17.04 | raster | fun! |
| 08:17.04 | raster | :) |
| 08:17.32 | raster | running out of "general case malloced ram" is as good a case for segv or exit as any |
| 08:17.41 | DocScrutinizer | raster: what are you high on? didn't we agree on there's no use in catching malloc fails? |
| 08:17.48 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@MYXXXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 08:17.59 | raster | only the special cases of "i have to alloc a big chunk" like i said before are sanely doable. |
| 08:18.18 | raster | DocScrutinizer: not for your benefit :) |
| 08:18.20 | DocScrutinizer | yayaYA |
| 08:18.21 | *** join/#maemo ppenz (~ppenz@cm189-78.liwest.at) |
| 08:18.42 | RobbieThe1st | If you are running out of memory, you don't have enough swap. |
| 08:18.44 | kerio | RobbieThe1st: y u mad? |
| 08:18.56 | raster | RobbieThe1st: after enough years writing 10,000's of emails and god knows how much on irc.. i couldnt be bothered. |
| 08:19.16 | raster | :) |
| 08:19.25 | RobbieThe1st | And it makes you look like a dumb teenager, to be honest. |
| 08:19.31 | raster | i dont much care |
| 08:19.32 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@office.adfinis.com) |
| 08:19.43 | raster | i have no interest in trying to look like anything |
| 08:19.49 | RobbieThe1st | You expect people to take you seriously, though. |
| 08:19.55 | *** join/#maemo bleader (~bleader@teenapping.lalooz.com) |
| 08:20.01 | raster | i have spent enough of my life living in places that dont speak english as language |
| 08:20.09 | raster | and having to make do with whatever form of communication works |
| 08:20.19 | raster | RobbieThe1st: i dont rely on my typing to do that. |
| 08:20.31 | rmrfchik | raster: how do they use english if not language? |
| 08:20.52 | raster | if it was ""My perfect Queens English that You request I use" which i am capable of doing, then it's nothing but a facade. |
| 08:20.54 | psycho_oreos | those short words have been spread out to other groups apart from just dumb teenagers :/ even me mum SMS me with short words |
| 08:21.14 | kerio | *Queen's |
| 08:21.21 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you have to catch all malloc fails |
| 08:21.22 | crashanddie_ | yeah, but that's because she wants to look like a teenager, psycho_oreos |
| 08:21.27 | raster | the process of captializing and not using shortcuts for "you" like u have nothing to do with having knowledge in a field unrelated to english |
| 08:21.32 | toresbe | raster: It's "Queen's". |
| 08:21.39 | toresbe | raster: And "You" isn't capitalized. |
| 08:21.40 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: if you live on system with disabled overcommit you are very likely to hit one |
| 08:21.41 | RobbieThe1st | It's one thing to be doing the best you can and not getting thing perfect; it's another entirely to deliberately make "mistakes". |
| 08:21.45 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: for what? how? |
| 08:21.49 | raster | rmrfchik: i meant "as a language |
| 08:21.55 | raster | typo |
| 08:22.00 | toresbe | RobbieThe1st: or not bothering to write properly, u no wut i mean? |
| 08:22.07 | RobbieThe1st | Exactly. |
| 08:22.18 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@148.154.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 08:22.21 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory |
| 08:22.25 | crashanddie_ | though, I think he got the point, and will now make an effort, so we might as well move on |
| 08:22.30 | raster | RobbieThe1st: i'm not deliberately making mistakes. i'm just saving time and keystrokes |
| 08:22.40 | crashanddie_ | raster, just make the damned effort. |
| 08:22.42 | RobbieThe1st | I did that myself, back when I was around thirteen. I learned better, and found that people respected me more for it. |
| 08:22.43 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and if you disable that linux will not allocate more memory than is avaliable and malloc will start to fail |
| 08:22.54 | raster | crashanddie_: nah. i'll pas thanks. |
| 08:22.58 | raster | err pass |
| 08:22.59 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie_, I'd hate to think of it that way lol.. I hardly ever use short words myself |
| 08:23.08 | rmrfchik | the number of keystrokes in the universe is infinite. |
| 08:23.15 | jacekowski | MohammadAG51: we have to talk |
| 08:23.28 | raster | rmrfchik: the number of hours in a day i have is not. |
| 08:23.33 | jacekowski | rmrfchik: do you have any proof? |
| 08:23.40 | DocScrutinizer | goes MEH and *shrug* and points to scrollback, general nonsense and tmo syndrome, and waves for a goodbye |
| 08:23.47 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@dhcp-077-248-153-097.chello.nl) |
| 08:24.05 | crashanddie_ | raster, if you won't make an effort to respect the people you're communicating with, I think you might be outstaying your welcome in #maemo. |
| 08:24.06 | rmrfchik | jacekowski: it is by intuition. it is proven (by lispers) that there is unlimited number of parenthesis |
| 08:24.23 | raster | crashanddie_: how has that got to do with respecting anyone? |
| 08:24.27 | crashanddie_ | as obviously, it's annoying more than one person |
| 08:24.34 | RobbieThe1st | It's one thing to type with short words and missing capitalization on a 10-key phone. It's another to do it when you have a full QWERTY keyboard at your disposal. Even typing properly using the n900's keyboard isn't that hard. |
| 08:24.36 | timeless_webchat | kerio: to borrow something from someone, i don't know what i don't know, so i can't say for sure that it doesn't |
| 08:24.39 | raster | crashanddie_: fyi english isnt my native language |
| 08:24.44 | crashanddie_ | raster, neither is it mine |
| 08:24.49 | crashanddie_ | yet, I make the effort |
| 08:25.01 | raster | that doesnt mean that i must |
| 08:25.03 | *** join/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de) |
| 08:25.16 | timeless_webchat | and since i'm not allowed to disclose topology, you should not assume that i'm answering based on not knowing, i may merely be honoring the policy :) |
| 08:25.24 | raster | where is the set of rules that specify i speak correct english to partake in this channel? |
| 08:25.42 | kerio | timeless_webchat: since you guys aren't using .work, can i take it? |
| 08:25.55 | *** mode/#maemo [+q *!*@enlightenment/developer/raster] by ChanServ |
| 08:26.04 | crashanddie_ | raster, feel free to PM me when you're done trolling. |
| 08:26.26 | *** part/#maemo PaulFertser (~pavel@91.78.250.2) |
| 08:26.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | crashanddie_: feel free to tell us when you're done with uberruling |
| 08:26.48 | timeless_webchat | DocScrutinizer: the rule is that strict. failure to do that can result in amusing security holes when your kernel is stupid :) |
| 08:26.54 | crashanddie_ | DocScrutinizer, will do |
| 08:27.11 | jacekowski | raster: you're not speaking correct english when everybody has to try hard to understand what you are writing |
| 08:27.15 | kerio | ooh, *burn* |
| 08:27.19 | timeless_webchat | raster: use a language which has exception handling... |
| 08:27.27 | kerio | timeless_webchat: english? |
| 08:27.39 | RobbieThe1st | :P |
| 08:27.44 | timeless_webchat | oh, he left? |
| 08:27.49 | kerio | yup |
| 08:27.52 | kerio | with a snarky quit message too |
| 08:27.56 | Termana | At least someone told him. That was getting annoying yesterday as well |
| 08:27.59 | *** mode/#maemo [-q *!*@enlightenment/developer/raster] by ChanServ |
| 08:28.05 | timeless_webchat | notes that one should pre-cache the OOM dialog + text |
| 08:28.11 | crashanddie_ | DocScrutinizer, done. |
| 08:28.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | screwit |
| 08:28.29 | crashanddie_ | kerio, PM me the message |
| 08:28.32 | kerio | timeless_webchat: that doesn't guarantee you'll be able to display it |
| 08:28.33 | timeless_webchat | RobbieThe1st: i ran out of memory a couple of times yesterday |
| 08:28.40 | RobbieThe1st | n900? |
| 08:28.41 | timeless_webchat | app hit a 3gb limit. system has 9gb of swap |
| 08:28.46 | RobbieThe1st | Ouch |
| 08:28.50 | RobbieThe1st | hm... |
| 08:28.59 | RobbieThe1st | Yea, I guess that -would- be a problem |
| 08:28.59 | crashanddie_ | lol, 9gb of swap |
| 08:29.25 | Termana | timeless_webchat, how much actually memory do you have in that system? |
| 08:29.46 | RobbieThe1st | Hey, I've got 12GB of swap... But only because I needed 4 for hibernation and wanted to make my 3 raid-5 drives have identical partition tables. |
| 08:29.55 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-ehsypxxhouuydumh) |
| 08:30.02 | kerio | RobbieThe1st: you could've given it 2gb |
| 08:30.15 | kerio | well, 2gb for each drive |
| 08:30.31 | kerio | or 1.(3)gb |
| 08:30.32 | RobbieThe1st | I wasn't sure if it it would hibernate across multiple partitions - I take it it will? |
| 08:30.38 | crashanddie_ | yup |
| 08:30.41 | timeless_webchat | crashanddie_: i'm borrowing the computer |
| 08:31.03 | crashanddie_ | timeless_webchat, not criticising, just finding it funny :) |
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| 08:31.14 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 08:31.56 | timeless_webchat | frade: ping |
| 08:32.01 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:32.01 | timeless_webchat | or mairas: ping |
| 08:33.03 | *** join/#maemo wolf^ (wolf@pld-linux/wolf) |
| 08:33.16 | mairas | timeless, pong |
| 08:33.48 | timeless_webchat | mairas: i'm having dns issues, does nslookup "ok" work? |
| 08:34.00 | timeless_webchat | can't resolve *anything* |
| 08:34.11 | *** join/#maemo RST38h (marat@wsip-174-79-166-19.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 08:34.42 | mairas | timeless_webchat, oh, that was it... my network connectivity was pretty hosed as well. I just rebooted the computer and got it resolved |
| 08:35.08 | mairas | I'm not sure whether I was given new servers |
| 08:35.13 | timeless_webchat | hrm |
| 08:36.15 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~asolsson@nat/nokia/x-wpvtgbvdehlhlxxh) |
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| 08:36.39 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (~simon@78.147.4.15) |
| 08:36.42 | lardman|home | morning all |
| 08:36.45 | lardman|home | X-Fade: ping |
| 08:37.08 | *** join/#maemo Nirtal (~nirtal@c83-250-233-148.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 08:37.23 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 08:39.50 | X-Fade | lardman|home: pong |
| 08:40.05 | RobbieThe1st | Ping |
| 08:40.07 | lardman|home | hey Neils |
| 08:40.20 | lardman|home | I'm getting an error trying to register a project on Garage |
| 08:40.27 | lardman|home | ERROR: Could not create group: ERROR: value too long for type character varying(255) |
| 08:40.29 | *** join/#maemo polymar (~polymar@82.210.249.81) |
| 08:40.39 | X-Fade | lardman|home: Don't write so much :) |
| 08:40.44 | lardman|home | lol |
| 08:40.48 | lardman|home | which field? |
| 08:40.58 | lardman|home | ah, doh! |
| 08:41.04 | X-Fade | lardman|home: Well some field with more than 255 chars ;) |
| 08:41.11 | X-Fade | lardman|home: And it is not the description. |
| 08:41.13 | lardman|home | I see now, is it not possible to limit the web input field to 255 chars? |
| 08:41.45 | X-Fade | lardman|home: I'm sure it is. But this garage thing is a bit of an ugly beast :) |
| 08:42.34 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-052-241.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 08:42.34 | lardman|home | sure, sorry to disturb, should have read the description first |
| 08:42.37 | lardman|home | :) |
| 08:43.56 | X-Fade | lardman|home: No problem :) |
| 08:44.30 | *** join/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@85.183.48.167) |
| 08:45.40 | lardman|home | X-Fade: can I also remove some Garage projects? |
| 08:45.52 | lardman|home | I couldn't see a way in the web interface |
| 08:47.27 | *** join/#maemo sergio__ (~sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:47.31 | X-Fade | lardman|home: no, I don't think so. I can though. |
| 08:47.45 | lardman|home | ok not important, I'll make a list and email you |
| 08:48.07 | lardman|home | just thought I should clear out some stuff I never got round to doing much/anything on |
| 08:54.49 | phellarv | Anyone remembers hot to turn off the automatic update-check? |
| 08:55.42 | timeless_webchat | phellarv: why does it bother you? |
| 08:55.56 | iDont | phellarv: http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check |
| 08:56.03 | phellarv | iDont: Thanks |
| 08:56.05 | *** join/#maemo asj_ (~asj@124-171-192-118.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:56.27 | iDont | np |
| 08:56.44 | phellarv | timeless_webchat: Because I don't use appman - I do it the shell way, and do not want blinking things in my GUI |
| 08:57.18 | DocScrutinizer | points out there's an /ignore command which *EVERYBODY* is free to use (except OPs, regrettably) - so WTF is going on in this chan? |
| 08:57.56 | phellarv | DocScrutinizer51: Bad morning? |
| 08:57.58 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 08:59.24 | DocScrutinizer | might get one - not sure if for me or for somebody else |
| 08:59.59 | phellarv | yanks out the popcorn and finds a comfortable spot to watch from. |
| 09:00.07 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@nantes.visionobjects.com) |
| 09:02.38 | timeless_webchat | X-Fade: would you ever describe a program which ended with SIGSEGV or SIGILL as having "aborted"? |
| 09:02.46 | toggles | anyone with n900 using bt audio in the car? what's the best way to connect? seems a pain to menu->bt->device->edit->connect |
| 09:03.00 | *** join/#maemo jvesiluoma (c30a9e83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.10.158.131) |
| 09:03.13 | johnx | toggles, mine auto-connects to bt headphones |
| 09:03.18 | X-Fade | timeless_webchat: Yes. |
| 09:03.20 | jacekowski | it should autoconnect |
| 09:03.21 | lardman|home | toggles: should auto connect if paired shouldn't it? |
| 09:03.37 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@89.240.129.156) |
| 09:04.42 | timeless_webchat | X-Fade: interesting, can you explain? |
| 09:05.19 | X-Fade | timeless_webchat: All depends on who you are talking to. For non tech people, I think aborted is fine. |
| 09:05.20 | Termana | timeless_webchat, I would call it "taken a choice" |
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| 09:06.01 | jacekowski | timeless_webchat: on windows i think they use "executed illegal operation and had to be stopped" |
| 09:06.29 | timeless_webchat | X-Fade: interesting |
| 09:06.29 | timeless_webchat | can you point to a normal application which does this? |
| 09:06.43 | toggles | johnx lardman|home: i'd have thought but it's not working right, might be the car |
| 09:06.47 | toggles | thanks |
| 09:07.07 | Termana | jacekowski, if people didn't view illegal things in their programs it would do this! :p (I'm kidding, obviously) |
| 09:07.09 | johnx | toggles, you might be able to do it with dbus-send, then make a launcher for that |
| 09:07.53 | toggles | thanks |
| 09:08.26 | timeless_webchat | jacekowski: yeah... |
| 09:08.32 | timeless_webchat | sadly i'm limited to roughly 12 characters |
| 09:09.00 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-127-202.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 09:09.12 | jacekowski | epicly failed |
| 09:09.28 | *** join/#maemo ptlo (~senko@192.100.124.156) |
| 09:09.51 | Termana | timeless_webchat, what about, terminated? |
| 09:09.52 | lardman|home | urgh, this python scripting is confusing |
| 09:10.04 | lardman|home | that is calling python from within C++ |
| 09:10.24 | Termana | timeless_webchat, even better, Termanated |
| 09:10.28 | timeless_webchat | Termana: my initial suggestion was Unexpectedly terminated |
| 09:10.30 | timeless_webchat | that's too long |
| 09:10.41 | timeless_webchat | as an impl detail, there's a TERMINATED terminal state which is totally unrelated |
| 09:11.03 | jacekowski | lardman|home: any interaction between dynamicaly typed and strictly typed languages is evil |
| 09:12.10 | lardman|home | jacekowski: but useful nevertheless |
| 09:12.32 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 09:12.37 | jacekowski | lardman|home: wher |
| 09:12.39 | lardman|home | casting a pyobject pointer to a C++ class is what I'm umming and arring about atm |
| 09:12.39 | jacekowski | where* |
| 09:12.46 | lardman|home | mbarcode |
| 09:13.00 | lardman|home | but am using the code in web2sms as a basis |
| 09:13.17 | jacekowski | well, problem is what if your structure decides to change |
| 09:13.29 | jacekowski | or python interpreter decides to do some weird optimisations |
| 09:13.39 | jacekowski | and structure doesn't match anymore |
| 09:13.49 | lardman|home | well the Python-side class definition should be fixed, no idea about the optimisation bit, but hopefully the class itself will remain ok |
| 09:13.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | timeless_webchat: fatality, died |
| 09:13.59 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (~jep@o.bcn.fluendo.net) |
| 09:14.08 | Termana | timeless_webchat, halted? Otherwise I would probably go with aborted |
| 09:14.29 | *** join/#maemo Derdavid (~Derdavid@89.204.153.99) |
| 09:14.39 | johnx | "ended early" |
| 09:14.46 | johnx | "called on account of rain" |
| 09:14.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | crashed |
| 09:15.02 | lardman|home | SIGILL stopped play |
| 09:15.12 | johnx | Died horribly |
| 09:15.16 | timeless_webchat | DocScrutinizer51: i tried crashed first |
| 09:15.20 | timeless_webchat | there were objections |
| 09:15.47 | Derdavid | hello! someone there, who knows something about dropn900 connection problems? |
| 09:15.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | there'l always be |
| 09:16.00 | timeless_webchat | e.g. the case includes SIGKILL |
| 09:16.08 | Derdavid | xD |
| 09:16.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | umm |
| 09:16.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | did the car crash, when you shoot the driver? |
| 09:17.08 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@86.57.155.118) |
| 09:17.26 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-56-185.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 09:17.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'd argue it's a 'forced crah' |
| 09:17.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | crash* |
| 09:18.23 | johnx | can we do one of those super classy cut-off error messages? |
| 09:18.31 | johnx | PROGRAM TERMIN |
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| 09:22.18 | DocScrutinizer | Î |
| 09:22.37 | DocScrutinizer | X-[ |
| 09:22.39 | Derdavid | hello xD |
| 09:24.23 | lardman|home | cu later chaps |
| 09:25.12 | DocScrutinizer | Ⱦ |
| 09:27.32 | *** join/#maemo leandrosansilva (~quassel@189.26.95.158.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 09:27.37 | psycho_oreos | ß |
| 09:28.08 | Derdavid | hi folks |
| 09:28.41 | Derdavid | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:29.12 | johnx | Derdavid, what's up? |
| 09:29.23 | DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Skull_and_crossbones.svg&filetimestamp=20100708170328 or â |
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| 09:33.42 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-66-181.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 09:34.00 | Venemo_N900 | hey bradas |
| 09:34.57 | johnx | ~seen bradas |
| 09:35.02 | infobot | i haven't seen 'bradas', johnx |
| 09:35.02 | johnx | no bradas here :) |
| 09:35.33 | Venemo_N900 | johnx: ehh |
| 09:35.37 | johnx | :D |
| 09:35.39 | *** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@202.91.19.194) |
| 09:35.47 | Venemo_N900 | johnx: you are not funny, you know? |
| 09:36.12 | johnx | I kinda figured. but I'm ok with that |
| 09:36.29 | Venemo_N900 | johnx: ok then |
| 09:37.35 | DocScrutinizer | timeless_webchat: http://www.isthisthingon.org/unicode/clipboard.php?add=10013 |
| 09:38.04 | Venemo_N900 | what do you guys think, how does this news affect Maemo/MeeGo? http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2010/11/08/rapid-innovation-for-symbian-platform?utm_medium=email&utm_source=peer360&utm_campaign=FN%5FINFO%5FBLAST%5F11082010?utm_content=FN%5FINFO%5FBLAST%5F11082010 |
| 09:38.33 | *** join/#maemo n900-dk_ (~kgu@freebox.dk) |
| 09:38.37 | range | q/act |
| 09:38.42 | range | Sorry. |
| 09:39.04 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: the relevant paragraphs are the last two: |
| 09:39.06 | timeless_webchat | For most of 2010 Nokia has been encouraging developers to use Qt. To show how seriously we take that decision we not only stopped all Nokia development in other frameworks, we committed to redeveloping key Nokia applications and services that werenât already in Qt. |
| 09:39.07 | johnx | Venemo_N900, probably very little. I guess it's nice they've standardized on Qt |
| 09:39.17 | timeless_webchat | Nokia has been working hard on developing in Qt, as evidenced by the introduction of Qt Quick, which makes rich, visual applications and services even easier to develop. We are confident that by focusing on Qt and Qt Quick as our sole application development strategy, we will increase the opportunity for developers, constantly improve the experience for users and extend the joy that people get from a single device. |
| 09:39.51 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: the rest of it is irrelevant to maemo/meego |
| 09:39.57 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: that is good to hear |
| 09:40.35 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: so regardless of their commitment to Symbian, they're continuing to develop MeeGo too, right? |
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| 09:43.21 | flexxxv | hy, my headset for n900 isn't dedected my maemo. but healthcheck dedect it. what could be wrong? |
| 09:43.39 | *** join/#maemo deegee__ (~deegee@nat/redhat/x-gzirtphjvfivtaaa) |
| 09:43.47 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: you do realize that having to "reaffirm" your commitment means that people think you're dropping something, right? |
| 09:44.00 | *** join/#maemo Gizmokid2010 (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com) |
| 09:44.08 | timeless_webchat | basically symbian has reached yet another stage/step on the process toward being fully dead |
| 09:44.19 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 09:44.24 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: pong |
| 09:44.24 | timeless_webchat | sadly, it's a long road... too long |
| 09:44.29 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: ah... |
| 09:44.42 | jacekowski | timeless_webchat: there is nothing wrong with symbian |
| 09:44.54 | timeless_webchat | jacekowski: sure there is, |
| 09:44.57 | timeless_webchat | it's called Management |
| 09:44.58 | *** join/#maemo Flanbix_ (~Flanbix@w114-210.fenner.hull.ac.uk) |
| 09:44.58 | timeless_webchat | :) |
| 09:45.00 | jacekowski | bs |
| 09:45.09 | *** join/#maemo jani (~rasjani@pcuf.fi) |
| 09:45.09 | timeless_webchat | nothing to do w/ the system stack :) |
| 09:45.25 | jacekowski | well maemo managment is worse |
| 09:45.32 | timeless_webchat | and symbian doesn't have a monopoly on that feature. sadly |
| 09:45.33 | *** join/#maemo Gizmokid- (~Gizmokid2@vps.gizmokid2005.com) |
| 09:45.35 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: so basically this confirms that Symbian'll be dead? |
| 09:45.41 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: nah |
| 09:45.46 | timeless_webchat | it'll die eventually |
| 09:45.55 | timeless_webchat | sadly it still has years of life left |
| 09:46.09 | *** join/#maemo zimmerle` (~fnc@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 09:46.19 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: well MeeGo is not ready yet to replace it |
| 09:46.20 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@mail.tin.nl) |
| 09:46.23 | timeless_webchat | it probably can't die for at least another 8 :( |
| 09:46.23 | timeless_webchat | well, s/die/be properly burried/ |
| 09:46.27 | timeless_webchat | s/burried/buried/ |
| 09:46.50 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: really? |
| 09:47.00 | *** join/#maemo hamss (~iamone@173-23-228-34.client.mchsi.com) |
| 09:47.06 | timeless_webchat | a stack which hasn't shipped a single product isn't ready to replace something which has shipped millions of units? |
| 09:47.08 | timeless_webchat | is shocked |
| 09:47.22 | *** join/#maemo msanchez_ (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 09:47.28 | *** join/#maemo ham5 (~iamone@unaffiliated/ham5) |
| 09:48.11 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: from what I've seen / heard about it, it will need some more time to get close even to the current Maemo 5 Ux |
| 09:48.42 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: seems like a reasonable conclusion |
| 09:48.51 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 09:49.14 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: :) |
| 09:49.52 | *** join/#maemo evilrob (~rhaig@butters.hackboy.com) |
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| 09:50.23 | DocScrutinizer | â |
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| 09:50.36 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: ping timeout |
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| 09:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I think it was about NB#161191 |
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| 09:55.16 | *** join/#maemo PontusOhman (~pontus@c-37d9e355.01-41-73766c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
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| 09:55.50 | PontusOhman | Could anyone please explain why I get this: Error opening file '/media/Nokia N900/.documents/Comics/Name of the comic.cbr': Input/output error |
| 09:56.04 | crashanddie_ | PontusOhman, doing what, exactly? |
| 09:56.09 | crashanddie_ | making cakes? |
| 09:56.41 | PontusOhman | crashanddie_: Was going to move over some comics to my N900, but when I paste them on the device I get that error |
| 09:56.59 | johnx | so this is an error displayed on your linux desktop? |
| 09:57.16 | johnx | run 'dmesg' in a terminal and put the output on pastie.org |
| 09:57.24 | crashanddie_ | PontusOhman, I'm guessing /media/Nokia N900 is mounted to /home/user/MyDocs/? |
| 09:58.47 | PontusOhman | johnx: > No error on the dmesg |
| 09:59.04 | johnx | so your file manager in linux says io error, but dmesg doesn't> |
| 09:59.05 | johnx | ? |
| 09:59.33 | Corsac | grmbl, do we really have to run make check in po? |
| 09:59.44 | Corsac | I hate when there are issues with applied patches and .pc folders >< |
| 10:00.03 | PontusOhman | johnx: > I tried to copy a .cbr file from a folder on my desktop on my Ubuntubox, but when I wanted to paste it on the device I get that error. |
| 10:00.07 | *** join/#maemo Dragnslcr (~scott@c-24-147-239-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 10:01.31 | johnx | PontusOhman, yes. so what you're saying is that nautilus gave you an io error, but dmesg doesn't have anything suspicious. I suspect some problem in nautilus |
| 10:01.32 | PontusOhman | crashanddie_: > The device is set to "mass storage mode" |
| 10:02.06 | PontusOhman | johnx: > I know the files is working, because I use comix to read them ^^ |
| 10:02.09 | *** join/#maemo harbaum (~quassel@2001:8d8:1fe:8:baac:6fff:fe2d:73a3) |
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| 10:02.19 | crashanddie_ | do you have enough free space? |
| 10:02.36 | PontusOhman | crashanddie_: > uhhhm... Over 20 Gb is free on the device so yeah ;) |
| 10:02.36 | johnx | PontusOhman, ok. so is there anything in dmesg on the N900? |
| 10:02.49 | PontusOhman | johnx: Nope, no errors |
| 10:04.34 | RobbieThe1st | Can you create a folder on your n900? |
| 10:04.42 | RobbieThe1st | .i.e. is it mounted readonly? |
| 10:05.02 | PontusOhman | RobbieThe1st: > I can create and paste other files on the device, but no .cbr files |
| 10:05.30 | johnx | PontusOhman, I blame nautilus. try cp |
| 10:05.34 | johnx | prove me wrong :) |
| 10:05.35 | RobbieThe1st | Yea |
| 10:05.51 | timeless_webchat | what's a .cbr? |
| 10:06.02 | RobbieThe1st | a .rar file renamed |
| 10:06.03 | kerio | jacekowski: you mean that c++ is dynamically typed and python is statically typed right? |
| 10:06.12 | RobbieThe1st | and generally filled with comic images |
| 10:06.27 | PontusOhman | johnx: Will try that :) |
| 10:06.30 | PontusOhman | hang on |
| 10:06.54 | jacekowski | kerio: yes |
| 10:08.37 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: isn't it quite the opposite? |
| 10:08.46 | kerio | Venemo_N900: huh? no |
| 10:09.16 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: c++ was statically typed last time I checked |
| 10:09.30 | kerio | any conversion (except between *some* numeric types) must be explicited |
| 10:09.42 | *** part/#maemo ilius (~ilius@94.101.182.238) |
| 10:09.50 | kerio | and objects belong strictly to one type and one type only |
| 10:11.16 | PontusOhman | johnx: > Can't even do a cp of the file :O |
| 10:11.50 | johnx | PontusOhman, eh? |
| 10:11.56 | *** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@af83-2.dd.bearstech.net) |
| 10:12.25 | PontusOhman | johnx: cp: cannot create regular file |
| 10:12.42 | *** join/#maemo zutesmog (~timh@119.11.1.60) |
| 10:12.45 | johnx | and it's only for that cbr file? |
| 10:12.53 | PontusOhman | It's for all cbr files |
| 10:13.02 | johnx | try copying a different file of similar size into the same place |
| 10:13.26 | johnx | also, try copying your cbr file onto a different place on your computer |
| 10:14.00 | PontusOhman | johnx: > Tried a .jpg file in to that folder with no luck :S |
| 10:14.18 | PontusOhman | Problem solved :D |
| 10:14.35 | johnx | well, gotta find out *why*, but at least some of the mystery is gone |
| 10:14.50 | johnx | just start picking away at variables until you only have one :) |
| 10:14.55 | Termana | kerio, exactly. It is statically typed. |
| 10:14.58 | crashanddie_ | PontusOhman, what are the perms on that directory? |
| 10:15.01 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 10:15.59 | timeless_webchat | ponders |
| 10:16.24 | timeless_webchat | (Pass 4) identifier 930700 [kernel] of 187 / 673 files... |
| 10:16.31 | PontusOhman | crashanddie_: > Removed that folder and maked a new folder in the root :) |
| 10:16.38 | PontusOhman | thx for the helt anyway :) |
| 10:16.44 | crashanddie_ | "in the root"? |
| 10:16.59 | *** join/#maemo TermanaDesire (~AndChat@120.152.245.90) |
| 10:17.01 | timeless_webchat | sibling of .documents/ ? |
| 10:17.01 | johnx | PontusOhman, sure. I would run fsck on that fs and backup any files, just in case |
| 10:17.16 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: C++ (pronounced /siË plÊs plÊs/ see plus plus) is a statically typed, free-form, multi-paradigm, compiled, general-purpose programming language. |
| 10:17.20 | kerio | Termana: i was talking about python :< |
| 10:17.22 | timeless_webchat | fwiw, we're talking about fixing the ".<stupid>" naming convention |
| 10:17.25 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B |
| 10:17.29 | kerio | also buzzwords |
| 10:18.01 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~dinesh@220.225.53.60) |
| 10:18.01 | TermanaDesire | kerio: read what you said you were talking about c++ |
| 10:18.04 | crashanddie_ | timeless, that'd be nice |
| 10:18.10 | *** part/#maemo saidinesh5 (~dinesh@220.225.53.60) |
| 10:18.15 | crashanddie_ | [11:06:10] <kerio> jacekowski: you mean that c++ is dynamically typed |
| 10:18.20 | TermanaDesire | That it both me and Venemo_N900 must be blind |
| 10:18.22 | timeless_webchat | it'll be fun to see what breaks |
| 10:18.30 | TermanaDesire | Or* |
| 10:18.31 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@mail.tin.nl) |
| 10:18.40 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: also, Python is dynamically typed |
| 10:18.50 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: read Wikipedia |
| 10:19.22 | TermanaDesire | Venemo_N900: Wikipedia. Ha! ;p |
| 10:19.26 | crashanddie_ | goes to change Wikipedia to say that Python is statically typed language |
| 10:19.34 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 10:19.47 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: lol |
| 10:19.48 | TermanaDesire | crashanddie_: you are evil sir ;p |
| 10:20.40 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: for the definition of what it means, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamically_typed#Dynamic_typing |
| 10:21.07 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: all interpreted languages are dynamically typed |
| 10:21.34 | *** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@83.101.55.103) |
| 10:22.10 | lcuk | Venemo_N900, BASIC historically used static types and that is interpreted :P |
| 10:22.10 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: A programming language is said to be dynamically typed when the majority of its type checking is performed at run-time as opposed to at compile-time. |
| 10:22.12 | timeless_webchat | hrm, isn't there an interpreted C that's statically typed? |
| 10:22.21 | timeless_webchat | lcuk++ |
| 10:22.22 | kerio | interpretd C? |
| 10:22.39 | *** join/#maemo TermanaDesire (~AndChat@120.152.245.90) |
| 10:22.54 | kerio | for the complications of compiled languages and the speed of interpreted languages? |
| 10:23.01 | timeless_webchat | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/376611/why-interpreted-langs-are-mostly-ducktyped-while-compiled-have-strong-typing |
| 10:23.01 | Venemo_N900 | since in interpreted languages type-checking occours at the runtime, they can not be statically typed |
| 10:23.04 | lcuk | the variant datatype is my understanding of dynamic typing - a box you dont know what it contains |
| 10:23.19 | kerio | lcuk: C has void* |
| 10:23.23 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: read the link above |
| 10:24.13 | timeless_webchat | http://www.softintegration.com/products/chstandard/download/ |
| 10:24.18 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: sorry, I did not talk about compiled vs interpreted |
| 10:24.20 | timeless_webchat | Ch is a C interpreter :) |
| 10:24.35 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: I of course agree with the SO answer |
| 10:25.27 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@s559385af.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 10:26.37 | crashanddie_ | lcuk, rather bubblewrap, it can contain anything, and when required you can look at it to see what shape it has |
| 10:27.04 | kerio | crashanddie_: and it's also more resistant to mishandling |
| 10:27.18 | crashanddie_ | it's also less resistant to sloppy coding |
| 10:27.29 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis_ (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:27.30 | kerio | *pop* *pop* *pop* |
| 10:27.54 | crashanddie_ | if you can turn an int into a string without casting, sure, it's handy, but it's hell to discover your problems the day you have them |
| 10:28.07 | kerio | oh, that's just awful of course |
| 10:28.13 | *** join/#maemo petrux (~petrux@host16-224-static.53-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:28.27 | lcuk | crashanddie_, nice analogy :) unwrapping the coating takes time as well |
| 10:28.36 | crashanddie_ | indeed :) |
| 10:28.47 | crashanddie_ | and the kids love it |
| 10:28.52 | kerio | ("3" + 4 will result in a TypeError in python) |
| 10:30.07 | timeless_webchat | boggles |
| 10:30.16 | timeless_webchat | it seems i hadn't received italian spam before |
| 10:30.19 | crashanddie_ | kerio, in PHP: <?php echo "lol: " . 5; ?> |
| 10:30.20 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: yeah, but it occours at the runtime, not at comple time |
| 10:30.33 | kerio | well, there's no compile time :) |
| 10:30.41 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: which means that type checking occours at runtime |
| 10:30.47 | kerio | (technically the code *is* compiled, but not in that way) |
| 10:30.56 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: thus, it is dynamically typed by definition |
| 10:31.00 | kerio | :< |
| 10:31.34 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 10:32.58 | crashanddie_ | kerio, I'm going to have to ask to hand in your IRC argumentalist card |
| 10:33.35 | RobbieThe1st | :P |
| 10:33.36 | crashanddie_ | kerio, you've just been beaten on a technologically complex field that transcends difficult-to-type words by someone on his N900. |
| 10:34.11 | johnx | (or looking at it another way, he caused someone on his N900 to waste time typing long words) |
| 10:34.19 | johnx | sleeps |
| 10:34.28 | kerio | swaps his IRC argumentalist card with his IRC troll card |
| 10:34.29 | RobbieThe1st | Too true |
| 10:35.07 | kerio | really though, python doesn't do dynamic typing like other languages |
| 10:35.28 | RobbieThe1st | That's for sure |
| 10:35.40 | RobbieThe1st | PHP's awesome that way. Python... Not so much |
| 10:35.54 | kerio | what |
| 10:36.08 | crashanddie_ | RobbieThe1st, you just lost all the cards you ever earned by saying the above. |
| 10:36.09 | achipa | segfaults |
| 10:36.15 | FireFly|n900 | No love for JS? |
| 10:36.27 | RobbieThe1st | What's wrong with PHP? |
| 10:36.40 | kerio | FireFly|n900: if JS pulled his shit togheter and stabilized on a common DOM standard it would be MUCH better |
| 10:36.45 | kerio | the prototyping system is cute |
| 10:37.06 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: seems that you don't understand what it means |
| 10:37.15 | kerio | but if your UI will be inside a browser and you have no standard way to access it... |
| 10:37.19 | RobbieThe1st | I've used it for all manner of thing's it was never intended for... like an IRC bot, all sorts of command-line scripts.... Then I switched to linux and used the shell instead. |
| 10:37.25 | FireFly|n900 | Isn't DOM standardised? Not implying all vendors follows the standards, but.. yeah |
| 10:37.35 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: None of these terms are connected in any way with the number of implicit conversions available in a language. |
| 10:37.54 | FireFly|n900 | Also, to be honest I prefer the way prototypes work in Lua.. much cleaner |
| 10:38.23 | crashanddie_ | RobbieThe1st, PHP is a shit language, built from duct tape residues and coke (as in soda)-fueled evenings by teenage boys in their underwear |
| 10:38.31 | Venemo_N900 | FireFly|n900: I don't like JS, but with some jQuery, it becomes less of a pain |
| 10:38.37 | crashanddie_ | RobbieThe1st, it has no logic, no complete architecture, no decent object model |
| 10:39.02 | kerio | crashanddie_: well at least it's turing-complete |
| 10:39.08 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: PHP is good for what it was designed to do |
| 10:39.22 | FireFly|n900 | Venemo_N900, I like JS, and I prefer it vanilla :3 |
| 10:39.35 | crashanddie_ | RobbieThe1st, str_*/preg_* functions: sometimes the needle is the first argument, sometimes it's the second. The OO modeling is a mess, with no possibility to do proper polymorphism and complex inheritance. |
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| 10:40.02 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: I would never use PHP for anything, but that is because of my personal preference |
| 10:40.44 | crashanddie_ | Any language where the standard functions are so implicitly abhorred by every coder who comes along, and the first thing they tell themselves "I need to write myself a decent framework to use this language" is flawed to begin with. |
| 10:40.46 | Venemo_N900 | FireFly|n900: well jQuery does a lot of things... saves me lots of typing |
| 10:41.22 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: hehe |
| 10:41.34 | timeless_webchat | crashanddie_: C? |
| 10:41.39 | crashanddie_ | Case in point, how many PHP frameworks are there? CakePHP, CarbonPHP (which I developed), CodeIgniter, Zend, Yii, Symfony, PHPDeVShell, Prado, Akelos, QPHP, ZooP |
| 10:41.53 | RobbieThe1st | I quite like it though - It's easy to write scripts, is entirely lax about whitespace, and relatively simple to work with. Javascript I also like... But not nearly as much, due to no proper documentation, and poor error debugging |
| 10:42.00 | FireFly|n900 | Venemo_N900, GUI designers have this awesome concept to reduce the typing even more... |
| 10:42.16 | FireFly|n900 | I'm sure jQuery is great for some things |
| 10:42.17 | crashanddie_ | PHP HAS GOOD ERROR DEBUGGING? LOLWUT? |
| 10:42.25 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: well I know about lots of guys who earn a fortune with PHP |
| 10:42.32 | FireFly|n900 | And it's neat that it wraps stuff like XHR |
| 10:42.36 | Venemo_N900 | FireFly|n900: indeed, they just generate awful code |
| 10:42.40 | RobbieThe1st | It does. I make a mistake and I get "error x on line y". |
| 10:42.45 | edheldil | like Zoidberg ... errr. Zuckerberg :) |
| 10:42.50 | crashanddie_ | Venemo_N900, I also know a lot of girls who earn a fortune by being prostitutes, doesn't make any of them righteous. Or should we talk about bankers? |
| 10:42.56 | Venemo_N900 | FireFly|n900: I like its effects and UI library the most |
| 10:43.11 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: good point |
| 10:43.20 | RobbieThe1st | PHP has, if nothing else, an excellent manual with examples of all sorts of things. With javascript, the best you get is half-a-dozen poorly written sites each with different explanations of what should work and what does. Oh, and sites still talking about IE-only stuff |
| 10:43.42 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: btw, the fact that you a lot of those girls, tells something about you :P |
| 10:43.53 | FireFly|n900 | Venemo_N900, the problem with people who learns jQuery as their first "language" is that they don't understand what their function calls does, repeating CSS selectors one after another |
| 10:44.09 | crashanddie_ | RobbieThe1st, if you want a good manual, try Java, or even Perl. Those manuals are miles ahead of PHP |
| 10:44.11 | Venemo_N900 | FireFly|n900: that is true |
| 10:44.14 | FireFly|n900 | Which leads to slow, hard-to-mantain code |
| 10:44.29 | FireFly|n900 | But I'm sure it has its uses, if used correctly :) |
| 10:44.33 | Venemo_N900 | FireFly|n900: agreed :) |
| 10:44.39 | crashanddie_ | anyway |
| 10:44.42 | crashanddie_ | old flamewar |
| 10:45.04 | crashanddie_ | I've been a PHP user for quite a few years, I've even committed patches and stuff |
| 10:45.09 | crashanddie_ | but the devs are wankers |
| 10:45.20 | crashanddie_ | who spit on you as soon as you raise questions about the security of the language |
| 10:45.21 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: Qt's docs are also very good, so are the MSDN docs |
| 10:45.25 | crashanddie_ | indeed |
| 10:45.34 | crashanddie_ | anyway, lunch with gf, later |
| 10:45.38 | timeless_webchat | msdn docs are good |
| 10:45.43 | timeless_webchat | not sure about Qt docs |
| 10:45.46 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie_: good apetite |
| 10:45.54 | timeless_webchat | enjoy lunch |
| 10:46.09 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: so far, I found what I was looking for in the Qt docs |
| 10:46.19 | RobbieThe1st | QT's docs are... fairly good. I did(am) run(ning) into issues with translating from QT to PyQT, and finding proper examples of various things... |
| 10:46.25 | kerio | i don't believe you'll have lunch, enjoy your passionate sex |
| 10:46.31 | kerio | no, wait, i got that wrong |
| 10:46.32 | timeless_webchat | RobbieThe1st: =~ s/QT/Qt/g |
| 10:46.35 | timeless_webchat | QT=QuickTime |
| 10:46.53 | RobbieThe1st | People still use that? |
| 10:46.54 | timeless_webchat | kerio: lunch [time] |
| 10:47.07 | kerio | RobbieThe1st: sure |
| 10:47.13 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: MSDN has some things that are ridiculously non-documented though |
| 10:47.52 | RobbieThe1st | I thought that died back in the '90s, when it had that horrible rounded grey interface and was never compatible with anything and always crashed... |
| 10:48.32 | Venemo_N900 | RobbieThe1st: what? |
| 10:48.45 | timeless_webchat | http://www.apple.com/macosx/what-is-macosx/quicktime.html |
| 10:49.09 | Venemo_N900 | unfortunately it hasn't died yet |
| 10:49.30 | timeless_webchat | sivang: remind me to get a better picture of http://images.apple.com/macosx/what-is-macosx/images/quicktime_player20090824.jpg |
| 10:49.37 | RobbieThe1st | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/QuickTime_7.6.6_for_Windows.png <- and they -still- haven't upgraded the interface! |
| 10:49.54 | joga | http://twitter.com/mikkohypponen/status/1935453057974272 |
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| 10:50.16 | lardman | re |
| 10:50.48 | timeless_webchat | jorga: err |
| 10:50.52 | timeless_webchat | that's the wrong ui |
| 10:50.57 | timeless_webchat | they switched to brushed metal (?) |
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| 10:53.16 | timeless_webchat | err, not joga , sorry |
| 10:54.10 | mece | joga, scary |
| 10:54.58 | timeless_webchat | mece: not quite accurate |
| 10:55.06 | timeless_webchat | if you're offline, it asks a question :) |
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| 10:55.29 | timeless_webchat | it's a "feature" |
| 10:55.34 | timeless_webchat | oh, and maemo has the same one |
| 10:55.40 | timeless_webchat | so don't go complaining about apple |
| 10:55.41 | mece | timeless_webchat: well that's erm... comforting. |
| 10:56.00 | mece | timeless_webchat, it does? funky. Anyway. |
| 10:56.16 | timeless_webchat | the apple feature is "don't bother the user from the web browser" |
| 10:56.19 | timeless_webchat | the maemo feature is the same |
| 10:56.35 | timeless_webchat | whether an app is smart enough to protect its user is thus a per app feature |
| 10:56.48 | timeless_webchat | ham for instance is intentionally not interested in being particularly protective |
| 10:57.08 | timeless_webchat | the call app otoh generally requires you to click the green button (gameable -- not actually valid protection) |
| 10:57.09 | kerio | well, who the hell uses HAM |
| 10:57.20 | timeless_webchat | kerio: who *uninstalls* it? |
| 10:57.29 | kerio | i didn't know you could uninstall it :O |
| 10:57.31 | timeless_webchat | remember, the issue isn't whether you use Y normally |
| 10:57.42 | timeless_webchat | it's whether someone can convince your device to launch Y *anyway* |
| 10:57.59 | timeless_webchat | the same reason you need to update IE on Windows even if you use something else |
| 10:58.07 | timeless_webchat | something might convince your web browser to launch IE |
| 10:58.09 | joga | I tried opening that with n900 but nothing happened :) |
| 10:58.25 | timeless_webchat | joga: i don't think we register skype: |
| 10:58.28 | timeless_webchat | but we could |
| 10:58.43 | timeless_webchat | my point is that from the protocol stack level, we're no different than apple |
| 10:58.48 | *** join/#maemo ayanes (~ayanes@157.24.113.242) |
| 10:58.48 | *** join/#maemo ayanes (~ayanes@unaffiliated/ayanes) |
| 10:58.52 | joga | k |
| 10:58.56 | timeless_webchat | both apple and maemo leave the dialog in the hands of the third party |
| 10:59.04 | timeless_webchat | which as shown is typically stupid |
| 10:59.18 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: what do you mean, no different? |
| 10:59.31 | timeless_webchat | Venemo_N900: click on a link to a protocol in your browser on the n900 |
| 10:59.39 | timeless_webchat | we don't pop up a "do you want to open foo:" dialog |
| 10:59.44 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: oh. |
| 11:00.01 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: okay |
| 11:00.19 | timeless_webchat | from an architecture standpoint, we are not better |
| 11:00.25 | timeless_webchat | we're accidentally better for a single one off protocol |
| 11:00.50 | timeless_webchat | but only because of how we integrated them into our stack |
| 11:00.55 | Venemo_N900 | timeless_webchat: what is that single one? |
| 11:01.12 | timeless_webchat | if they shipped their own skype client, they'd be just as vulnerable on our stack |
| 11:01.19 | timeless_webchat | skype: |
| 11:01.35 | timeless_webchat | read the actual report, he isn't complaining about skype: |
| 11:01.43 | timeless_webchat | he's complaining about apple not guarding against foo: |
| 11:01.45 | lcuk | thats the same for pretty much all protocol links though isnt it? |
| 11:01.52 | timeless_webchat | and apple is saying it's foo's job to handle foo: |
| 11:02.17 | lcuk | if the machine is configured to open xyz: links using xyz.exe application then, meh? |
| 11:02.30 | Venemo_N900 | heh |
| 11:02.56 | timeless_webchat | lcuk: desktop browsers tend to ask |
| 11:03.09 | timeless_webchat | they have more space for undecipherable messages |
| 11:03.23 | timeless_webchat | the reality is that a browser isn't in a position to ask a useful question |
| 11:03.24 | lcuk | timeless_webchat, tell that to things when I accidentally click mail: links |
| 11:03.31 | timeless_webchat | it doesn't know if foo: is dangerous or harmless |
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| 11:03.36 | lcuk | i think the problem is more the iframe than anything |
| 11:03.43 | lcuk | evil nasty things ;) |
| 11:03.48 | timeless_webchat | lcuk: network.protocol-handler.warn-external.mailto;false |
| 11:03.57 | timeless_webchat | set that to true in your favorite geckos |
| 11:04.18 | lcuk | i use internet explorer 4. microsoft told me it was the best and most secure ever. |
| 11:04.26 | lcuk | my windows Me installation is so much safer with it |
| 11:04.56 | timeless_webchat | hrm |
| 11:05.00 | timeless_webchat | unregister mailto: ? |
| 11:05.12 | timeless_webchat | or change it to something which doesn't actually do mail |
| 11:05.14 | lcuk | am joking, already in about:config |
| 11:05.24 | *** join/#maemo Flipi|BNC (bnc@kann.nicht.ohne.dj-flipi.de) |
| 11:06.13 | timeless_webchat | (Pass 4) identifier 2163300 [libxml2] of 426 / 673 files... |
| 11:06.16 | timeless_webchat | sighs |
| 11:06.28 | timeless_webchat | merging 673 indexes is not fast |
| 11:08.35 | Venemo_N900 | guys, I have to leave now |
| 11:08.44 | Venemo_N900 | have a good afternoon :) |
| 11:08.45 | lardman | hmm, Symbian closed sourced again |
| 11:09.08 | Venemo_N900 | lardman: ??? |
| 11:09.15 | lardman | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11713192 |
| 11:09.49 | Venemo_N900 | is that true? |
| 11:10.08 | lardman | or perhaps it's just a shuffling and it will remain open, but directed like Maemo was |
| 11:11.25 | Venemo_N900 | lardman: nothing in that article mentions closed sourcing |
| 11:11.39 | lardman | apologies, my jumping to a conclusion |
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| 11:12.42 | Venemo_N900 | lardman: no problem, but it would have surprised me |
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| 11:13.13 | lardman | I was just wondering if, as the commentator said at the bottom, they had decided that open sourcing had been a mistake |
| 11:13.43 | timeless_webchat | well... |
| 11:13.53 | timeless_webchat | the reality is that open sourcing didn't get them much |
| 11:14.01 | lardman | yep |
| 11:14.02 | timeless_webchat | it basically burned X EUR + X man months |
| 11:14.02 | Venemo_N900 | lardman: I don't know, but I don't think so |
| 11:14.07 | maybeWTF | name change would have been more productive |
| 11:14.13 | timeless_webchat | maybeWTF: nope |
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| 11:14.23 | timeless_webchat | you can't rename a dog |
| 11:14.24 | maybeWTF | so all the people with dirty minds didn't have to think twice when mentioning symbian |
| 11:14.29 | timeless_webchat | it won't wag its tail any better |
| 11:14.45 | lardman | timeless_webchat: Symbian in the days of Psion was not so dog like ;) |
| 11:14.48 | timeless_webchat | the few people who like it would have a new chance to learn reasons not ot like it |
| 11:14.56 | timeless_webchat | s/not ot/not to/ |
| 11:15.08 | timeless_webchat | better to keep loyalty from those who did like the old dog |
| 11:15.29 | timeless_webchat | in some ways, it probably helped maemo |
| 11:15.50 | timeless_webchat | less resources on the symbian side could be effectively deployed to compete w/ us :) |
| 11:15.57 | lardman | Is there an article somewhere on what the fundamental limitations of the Symbian platform are? I know people go on about how limited it has become |
| 11:16.11 | timeless_webchat | lardman: hrm |
| 11:16.12 | lardman | s/limited/constraining |
| 11:16.26 | jacekowski | are they closing it competly |
| 11:16.30 | jacekowski | or just closing development? |
| 11:16.49 | lardman | jacekowski: seems I jumped to a conclusion not supported by the facts |
| 11:16.54 | lardman | so we don't know |
| 11:17.04 | timeless_webchat | problems in symbian: |
| 11:17.11 | jacekowski | i mean like in they develop it internally and then release code when done |
| 11:17.11 | timeless_webchat | 1. way too many incompatible ui toolkits |
| 11:17.22 | jacekowski | timeless_webchat: linux does same |
| 11:17.26 | timeless_webchat | 2. just because you picked a given ui toolkit didn't mean you could ship to everything that had that toolkit |
| 11:17.31 | jacekowski | timeless_webchat: QT, GTK and couple others |
| 11:17.37 | timeless_webchat | -- because for some reason there were version breaks or something |
| 11:17.45 | jacekowski | timeless_webchat: linux does the same |
| 11:17.46 | timeless_webchat | jacekowski: =~ s/QT/Qt/g |
| 11:17.56 | timeless_webchat | jacekowski: linux has better apologists :) |
| 11:18.04 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 11:18.07 | jacekowski | Symbian will continue be developed by its community of programmers around the world, but Nokia will now oversee this process. |
| 11:18.13 | timeless_webchat | 3. the memory model was too complicated for poor programmers |
| 11:18.45 | timeless_webchat | -- this doesn't mean that it's better on linux, just that most users are more forgiving on desktop (if they're using linux on desktop) |
| 11:19.05 | jacekowski | timeless_webchat: complicated? |
| 11:19.07 | timeless_webchat | (linux desktop users accept crap, phone users can't afford to in the same way) |
| 11:19.18 | timeless_webchat | jacekowski: are you familiar w/ it, or challenging me to be annoying? |
| 11:19.28 | jacekowski | i'm familiar with it |
| 11:19.34 | jacekowski | and i wouldn't say it's complicated |
| 11:19.37 | timeless_webchat | i wouldn't either |
| 11:19.41 | timeless_webchat | but that's the standard complaint |
| 11:19.46 | jacekowski | whole idea is different |
| 11:19.46 | timeless_webchat | it actually makes sense |
| 11:20.02 | timeless_webchat | but note i wrote "too complicated for poor programmers" |
| 11:20.06 | timeless_webchat | not too complicated for good programmers |
| 11:20.10 | jacekowski | s/poor/stupid/ |
| 11:20.16 | timeless_webchat | sure |
| 11:20.41 | jacekowski | i saw some sad people that have no idea that there is something like pointers |
| 11:20.44 | timeless_webchat | 4. the app store story for Symbian is a trail of tears |
| 11:21.01 | timeless_webchat | -- i'm not saying it's better on Maemo or Linux in general |
| 11:21.05 | jacekowski | well, first phone with real app store was iphone |
| 11:21.21 | timeless_webchat | well |
| 11:21.23 | jacekowski | thing is that is you keep platform open like that |
| 11:21.27 | timeless_webchat | nokia had 4 or more different attempts |
| 11:21.30 | timeless_webchat | Download! |
| 11:21.32 | jacekowski | you will have alternatives |
| 11:21.37 | SpeedEvil | wasn't there a palm phone early on with lots of apps? |
| 11:21.39 | jacekowski | alternative repositories |
| 11:21.42 | timeless_webchat | was iirc one of the middle incarnations |
| 11:21.51 | SpeedEvil | Or at least, that could run palmpilot apps |
| 11:21.52 | timeless_webchat | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 11:22.07 | timeless_webchat | jacekowski: i'm explaining the pain points |
| 11:22.15 | timeless_webchat | i'm not saying they're absolutely insurmountable |
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| 11:22.20 | timeless_webchat | they're pain points <period> |
| 11:22.21 | SpeedEvil | Was there a central app-store for that - I forget. |
| 11:22.28 | timeless_webchat | they aren't necessarily unique to symbian |
| 11:23.10 | SpeedEvil | wonders about an emulated palmpilot that also emulates graffiti |
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| 11:26.12 | lardman | apologies, had to talk to someone |
| 11:26.14 | timeless_webchat | 5. symbian signing was a mess |
| 11:26.27 | timeless_webchat | -- partially due to locking, lack of consistent signature recognition, etc. |
| 11:26.27 | lardman | so basically the limitations of Symbian, so far, are replicated in Linux |
| 11:26.30 | *** join/#maemo pablo2 (~pablo@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:26.47 | timeless_webchat | -- again, not necessarily a problem unique to symbian |
| 11:26.57 | timeless_webchat | lardman: or coming soon! |
| 11:27.12 | lardman | :) |
| 11:27.28 | timeless_webchat | 6. symbian apis never die (this is a win16/win32 like trait, unlike linux!) |
| 11:27.40 | lcuk | timeless_webchat, :P when giving lists, use a prefix or a suffix so that we can go back at a later date :P |
| 11:27.52 | lardman | well that and the ui toolkit problem can now be addressed as Nokia pull the strings |
| 11:27.54 | timeless_webchat | lcuk: yeah yeah |
| 11:28.02 | timeless_webchat | lardman: funny |
| 11:28.12 | lardman | really? Why not? |
| 11:28.19 | timeless_webchat | let's not go there now? |
| 11:28.37 | timeless_webchat | 7. language support in symbian more or less sucked due to resource constraints on the target devices |
| 11:28.59 | timeless_webchat | -- not technically a problem w/ symbian as a stack, just a constraint imposed by vendors |
| 11:29.05 | lardman | exactly |
| 11:29.22 | timeless_webchat | but please remember, we're talking about reasons people don't like writing for it |
| 11:29.32 | timeless_webchat | that includes the whole env, not just the theoretical underpinnings |
| 11:29.38 | lardman | horrible syntax |
| 11:29.41 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@hci-public-dock-179-dhcp.ethz.ch) |
| 11:29.46 | timeless_webchat | if your OS supports 4etabytes of memory |
| 11:29.53 | timeless_webchat | but only gives me 640k |
| 11:29.59 | timeless_webchat | you don't get credit in my book for the rest |
| 11:30.18 | lardman | but the constraint there is a hw limitation? |
| 11:30.28 | timeless_webchat | typically yes |
| 11:30.48 | timeless_webchat | combined w/ vendors choosing to optimize resources |
| 11:31.25 | timeless_webchat | 8. until recently vendors generally didn't provide OTA updates or service packs or whatever |
| 11:31.49 | timeless_webchat | -- this was partially because operators blocked them, not because the updates didn't exist |
| 11:32.07 | lardman | so then that leads me to my next question, what is the appeal, if anything of using Meego rather than Symbian? Other than a fresh start? |
| 11:32.19 | timeless_webchat | it addresses point 6 |
| 11:32.39 | timeless_webchat | and gives people a chance to screw up the other points all over again :) |
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| 11:33.18 | timeless_webchat | arguably 3 is replaced by a surprise (whether this is good...) |
| 11:33.31 | timeless_webchat | actually in maemo 5, 3 was replaced by the device swapping to death |
| 11:33.36 | timeless_webchat | (always a good thing?) |
| 11:34.08 | lardman | Symbian supports vitrual memory doesn't it? |
| 11:34.26 | timeless_webchat | you didn't generally design a phone to swap to death w/ symbian |
| 11:34.42 | timeless_webchat | we did w/ the n900 -- it was a marketing requirement |
| 11:34.53 | lardman | I mean I see next to no difference between Linux and Symbian, other than Linux is open source and there's lots of code around (both good things), but that doesn't necessarily make any odds to a phone manuf |
| 11:34.59 | jacekowski | lardman: yes |
| 11:35.38 | timeless_webchat | oh |
| 11:35.47 | timeless_webchat | 9. the TCP stack was "different" |
| 11:36.00 | timeless_webchat | 10. The C library was "different" |
| 11:36.03 | lardman | timeless_webchat: the lack of swap death seems to me, based on the Psion days, of careful design for constrained devices - but that may have gone away since then |
| 11:36.20 | timeless_webchat | lardman: i'm not claiming swapping to death is a good thing |
| 11:36.33 | timeless_webchat | in fact, i hope based on my description you'll understand it *isn't* imo |
| 11:36.47 | lardman | no nor I, but it always seemed to me that Linux was not designed for limited resource devices |
| 11:36.55 | timeless_webchat | points 1-3, 9 + 10 meant that porting software to Symbian was painful |
| 11:37.01 | jacekowski | lardman: it's not |
| 11:37.08 | jacekowski | lardman: i mean kernel can deal with it |
| 11:37.10 | timeless_webchat | yeah, it isn't |
| 11:37.13 | lardman | yes I know that porting pain feeling |
| 11:37.22 | jacekowski | lardman: but when you use full X with stuff |
| 11:37.26 | timeless_webchat | note, i'm not saying porting is impossible |
| 11:37.30 | timeless_webchat | Putty is ported |
| 11:37.33 | timeless_webchat | Apache was ported |
| 11:37.38 | timeless_webchat | (by nokia iirc) |
| 11:37.39 | jacekowski | iirc Xorg on n900 is using like 70-80M of ram |
| 11:37.53 | timeless_webchat | i think some of that might be the Display itself |
| 11:38.09 | jacekowski | loads of it is resources from applications |
| 11:38.17 | timeless_webchat | yeah, that too |
| 11:38.24 | jacekowski | but WTF? |
| 11:38.24 | lardman | What I'm trying to establish, in a round about way, is why Nokia have changed the plan re Symbian |
| 11:38.34 | timeless_webchat | lardman: well |
| 11:38.41 | timeless_webchat | Open Source was buzzword compliant |
| 11:38.48 | timeless_webchat | Nokia strives to be buzzword compliant |
| 11:38.54 | lardman | lol |
| 11:38.54 | timeless_webchat | it tends to be a bit late, but it tries |
| 11:39.00 | jacekowski | dos had 640kb of ram |
| 11:39.01 | timeless_webchat | but really |
| 11:39.03 | jacekowski | and it was working |
| 11:39.16 | timeless_webchat | the reason to open source was to enable nokia to buy out the other shareholders in symbian |
| 11:39.16 | jacekowski | with games and stuff |
| 11:39.28 | timeless_webchat | it wasn't really for buzzword |
| 11:39.32 | jacekowski | timeless_webchat: symbian will still be open source according to that article |
| 11:39.40 | lardman | jacekowski: I think timeless was saying that it's all well and good Symbian having a 32bit address space when the hw it was running on had next to no ram |
| 11:39.46 | timeless_webchat | jacekowski: i'm talking about 2008 |
| 11:39.59 | *** join/#maemo goldbergus (~mirc631@53-10-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 11:40.07 | timeless_webchat | lardman: yeah, i meant that, although i definitely didn't say it :) |
| 11:40.18 | lardman | I read between the pixels |
| 11:40.21 | jacekowski | well |
| 11:40.21 | timeless_webchat | my belief is that when nokia wanted to get control over symbian |
| 11:40.27 | jacekowski | n95 had more ram |
| 11:40.31 | timeless_webchat | it had to promise to the other stakeholders it would open source |
| 11:40.41 | jacekowski | and symbian |
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| 11:40.51 | lardman | ah I see |
| 11:40.51 | timeless_webchat | anyway, it's 1:40pm |
| 11:40.58 | timeless_webchat | i need to leave if i want to get food |
| 11:41.06 | lardman | eat! |
| 11:41.07 | timeless_webchat | nokia had a couple of strategies |
| 11:41.11 | timeless_webchat | one was gaining control |
| 11:41.14 | timeless_webchat | open sourcing enabled that |
| 11:41.18 | timeless_webchat | another was Qt everywhere |
| 11:41.27 | timeless_webchat | buying Trolltech and controlling Symbian enabled that |
| 11:42.35 | timeless_webchat | note: i've never written apps for symbian |
| 11:42.51 | timeless_webchat | otoh, i have had a patch committed to symbian :) |
| 11:43.15 | lardman | patching what? |
| 11:43.45 | zap | Is here anybody who can solve a problem with package autobuilder? |
| 11:44.08 | X-Fade | zap: sure. |
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| 11:45.12 | zap | X-Fade: could you please look at the unzip package. I have submited a new version but it doesn't get into -devel after successfuly building |
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| 11:45.46 | timeless_webchat | oh... |
| 11:45.56 | timeless_webchat | 11. the compiler toolchain story wasn't always wonderful |
| 11:45.58 | alterego | zap: you have to wait for the importer |
| 11:46.06 | alterego | zap: did you get the build successful email? |
| 11:47.14 | zap | Sure, long ago |
| 11:47.31 | zap | In fact, I got it first for version -maemo1, then for -maemo2 |
| 11:48.15 | alterego | How long ago? |
| 11:48.43 | zap | yesterday\ |
| 11:48.49 | zap | (-maemo2) |
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| 11:48.57 | alterego | Hrm |
| 11:48.59 | alterego | Interesting. |
| 11:49.03 | zap | http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/ |
| 11:49.47 | zap | it could be because the version numeration is different from what was submited earlier by Daniel Mart?n Yerga |
| 11:50.08 | zap | this is a pure maemo package, he submited an adaptation of the debian package (1maemo1) |
| 11:51.14 | alterego | Simple answer .. I'm not sure what's wrong. |
| 11:51.41 | lardman | is 6.0-1maemoX > 6.0-maemoX |
| 11:51.50 | zap | no |
| 11:51.51 | alterego | Yes |
| 11:51.57 | zap | I checked with dpkg --compare-versions |
| 11:52.02 | zap | maemo1 > 1maemo1 |
| 11:52.04 | alterego | Really? |
| 11:52.09 | alterego | Crazy |
| 11:52.10 | zap | (because 'm' > '1' I suppose) |
| 11:52.19 | lardman | depends how the repo filler script works I guess |
| 11:52.22 | alterego | huh, oh yeah |
| 11:52.37 | zap | I tried to submit version 1maemo2 |
| 11:52.42 | zap | it didnt get replaced as well |
| 11:53.04 | lardman | that was rejected |
| 11:53.08 | X-Fade | zap: yeah you created a version number mess. :) |
| 11:53.15 | zap | not me :] |
| 11:53.29 | zap | unzip always used the -maemo# scheme |
| 11:53.40 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 11:53.54 | X-Fade | You need something which is > 6.0-1maemo1 at least. |
| 11:54.04 | *** join/#maemo StippenG (~stgronro@peterbilt.cs.abo.fi) |
| 11:54.08 | lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/unzip_6.0-maemo2/summary.log seems ok |
| 11:54.09 | zap | I submitted -1maemo2 |
| 11:54.17 | zap | it didn't worked |
| 11:54.27 | lardman | -1maemo2 was rejected |
| 11:54.27 | zap | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/unzip_6.0-1maemo2/ |
| 11:54.31 | zap | why? |
| 11:54.41 | lardman | because there was a newer version in the repo already |
| 11:54.45 | zap | REJECTED: The same or newer version (unzip 6.0-maemo1) is already in extras-devel |
| 11:54.47 | zap | muhahah |
| 11:55.02 | zap | :\ |
| 11:55.08 | lardman | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/u/unzip/ |
| 11:55.13 | lardman | it looks like it's in there to me |
| 11:55.41 | zap | hmm, but the package page doesn't list it |
| 11:56.18 | zap | so I can't promote it to -testing |
| 11:56.19 | lardman | yes it does, down the bottom |
| 11:56.49 | zap | I can click on it, but there's no Promote button in there |
| 11:57.05 | lardman | you've already promoted it to -testing afaict |
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| 11:57.24 | zap | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/u/unzip/ |
| 11:57.25 | kerio | schizophrenia |
| 11:57.28 | zap | it isn't there |
| 11:57.57 | lardman | well that's a different issue |
| 11:58.09 | lardman | X-Fade: how often does the promoter run? |
| 11:58.30 | X-Fade | lardman: twice per hour. |
| 11:58.36 | lardman | hmm, it has been ~13h since it was promoted |
| 11:59.14 | zap | how do you see it has been promoted? |
| 11:59.26 | X-Fade | It is probably because of the numbering scheme. Various tools don't like you switching. |
| 11:59.30 | lardman | bottom of this page: http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/ |
| 11:59.38 | zap | ah, indeed |
| 12:00.41 | zap | well, I think dpkg --compare-versions is the ultimate judge? |
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| 12:01.56 | lardman | probably should be, but whatever scripts actually do the work may not agree with it |
| 12:02.01 | lardman | incorrectly of course |
| 12:02.17 | lardman | but we'll have to wait and see what X-Fade comes up with |
| 12:02.44 | zap | sure, he's my last hope :) |
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| 12:12.10 | X-Fade | zap: Let me just remove the 1maemo1 one and see what happens. |
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| 12:13.37 | X-Fade | Lunch, brb. |
| 12:15.06 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B490CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:15.20 | lardman | ok so not going closed source at all then: http://www.symbian.org/news-and-media |
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| 12:21.30 | hrw | lardman: but with only nokia behind Symbian it will not evolve |
| 12:21.58 | *** join/#maemo goldbergus (~mirc631@53-10-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 12:22.13 | lardman | hrw: perhaps |
| 12:22.27 | lardman | but apparently I was wrong, and it's supposed to be open but guided |
| 12:22.33 | lardman | who knows! :) |
| 12:23.00 | zap | X-Fade: it just disappeared from package page :) |
| 12:23.32 | hrw | lardman: but will it change anything? |
| 12:24.07 | hrw | lardman: meego is also open, but harmattan (which is nokiameego) will be ~50% closed anyway |
| 12:26.06 | kerio | :( |
| 12:26.24 | crashanddie_ | nokeego (!OK-GO) |
| 12:26.37 | kerio | so i see project "let's break into nokia's hq and steal all the hw specs for the n900" is still not go |
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| 12:27.01 | crashanddie_ | only if we wear aari jaaksi masks |
| 12:28.14 | SchorschlV6 | hey guys... any ideas why pulseaudio wouldn't came up after reboot? (n900) |
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| 12:32.33 | SchorschlV6 | omg |
| 12:32.34 | *** join/#maemo Hoxzer (haikion@amadeus.cc.tut.fi) |
| 12:33.02 | SchorschlV6 | the error was: /home/user/.mafw-playlists/DEADJOE exists... god! |
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| 12:39.43 | zap | DEADJOE is an invalid hex number, use DEADBEEF instead |
| 12:40.06 | hrw | lardman: same will be with symbian phones. |
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| 12:40.24 | hrw | kerio: define 'hw specs' |
| 12:40.30 | qwebirc456329 | 12. Symbian had to do its own driver development (in Linux, these days some hardware vendors do it, and for the other popular stuff someone else will) |
| 12:41.14 | timeless_chatweb | 12. Symbian had to do its own driver development (in Linux, these days some hardware vendors do it, and for the other popular stuff someone else will) |
| 12:41.22 | Scelt | 12. Symbian had to do its own driver development (in Linux, these days some hardware vendors do it, and for the other popular stuff someone else will) |
| 12:41.23 | timeless_chatweb | -- that's an advantage for someone who has to bankroll their phone os |
| 12:41.25 | kerio | 12. Symbian had to do its own driver development (in Linux, these days some hardware vendors do it, and for the other popular stuff someone else will) |
| 12:41.50 | Termana | wtf |
| 12:41.59 | Termana | :p |
| 12:42.07 | timeless_chatweb | blames webchat |
| 12:42.09 | psycho_oreos | copy and paste craze |
| 12:42.18 | kerio | hrw: complete hardware specifications for each tiny chip in the n900 |
| 12:42.24 | kerio | EEEEEVERYTHING |
| 12:43.24 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@82.132.136.183) |
| 12:43.49 | hrw | kerio: forget it |
| 12:44.00 | kerio | why? :( |
| 12:44.08 | hrw | kerio: TI does not give complete specs neither |
| 12:44.37 | kerio | ok, project "let's break into nokia and TI's HQs to get complete hardware specs for the n900" |
| 12:45.30 | *** join/#maemo renato (~renato@187.58.103.253) |
| 12:46.07 | maybeWTF | you'll end up having to break into some taiwanese/chinese company HQ too |
| 12:46.28 | kerio | well i imagine them not being a real problem |
| 12:46.34 | kerio | you probably just have to pay |
| 12:47.02 | Gorroth | trying to get a libnet-dev package out before i head to work |
| 12:47.21 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~edulima@187.106.5.201) |
| 12:47.22 | Gorroth | i don't know how to make the dh_* programs install man pages under /opt instead of /usr though :-/ |
| 12:47.47 | *** join/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B2885AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:47.55 | Gorroth | even though i compile with --prefix=/opt |
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| 12:51.11 | Gorroth | i might just release this to extras-devel as it is and try to fix the doc situation later |
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| 12:59.41 | timeless_chatweb | Gorroth: man pages generally get killed by the install process, so i'm not sure it matters |
| 13:02.13 | Gorroth | what do you mean? |
| 13:02.20 | Gorroth | i can install man pages |
| 13:02.28 | Gorroth | it's just they go to /usr instead of /opt |
| 13:03.04 | zap | Gorroth: cat /usr/share/man/README |
| 13:04.00 | Gorroth | zap: the purged thing? i guess that means that when you do an install, the installer strips out all man pages? |
| 13:04.44 | Gorroth | hmm, somehow i got squid to install man pages to /opt.... let me see how i did that |
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| 13:15.35 | lardman | hrw: apologies for the slow response |
| 13:16.34 | lardman | hrw: yeah, well that's what I was wondering, seems like both platforms are pretty similar in terms of openness with both having various disadvantages and advantages |
| 13:17.11 | lardman | the main plus for Linux being the availability of existing code, though the need to tailor it for resource constrained devices is a disadvantage imo |
| 13:17.17 | lardman | anyway, /me heads for lunch |
| 13:17.46 | kerio | well, µClinux is opensource too |
| 13:18.56 | kerio | also how is the n900 resource-limited? |
| 13:19.07 | kerio | my old computer that ran debian was slower |
| 13:19.15 | kerio | and had about the same ram |
| 13:19.19 | kerio | and less hd space |
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| 13:20.38 | Gorroth | okay, uploaded libnet |
| 13:20.41 | Gorroth | hope it builds |
| 13:20.42 | lardman|afk | let me reply when I get home |
| 13:20.51 | lardman|afk | but really the N900 does suffer under the memory load |
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| 13:20.59 | kerio | oh of course |
| 13:21.05 | kerio | but the solution is to use less ram |
| 13:21.06 | kerio | duh |
| 13:21.07 | FauxFaux | The first pc I remember owning, and I wasn't an early starter or anything, so this isn't that geeky, was 33mhz with 500mb of hdd. It's not even funny how much more powerful than that the n900 is. |
| 13:21.12 | Gorroth | yeah, the n900 does suffer under memory pressure :-/ |
| 13:21.13 | lardman|afk | so I suppose what I should say is that modern sw, which is what people want, is not designed to be memory efficient |
| 13:21.16 | lardman|afk | necessarily |
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| 13:21.56 | lardman|afk | Linux (and by that I mean more than just the kernel) has certainly been designed for desktop computers with desktop HDD and RAM |
| 13:22.00 | lardman|afk | that's the issue I see |
| 13:22.11 | lardman|afk | anyway, will bbiab |
| 13:22.23 | kerio | gecko is the thing that really eats up the ram |
| 13:22.28 | hrw | kerio: it is hard to use less ram when after running few apps real ram ends in n900 |
| 13:22.39 | kerio | so i blame timeless |
| 13:23.08 | timeless_chatweb | ? |
| 13:23.12 | timeless_chatweb | oh |
| 13:23.13 | iDont | kerio: run! |
| 13:23.14 | timeless_chatweb | well |
| 13:23.16 | timeless_chatweb | shrugs |
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| 13:23.47 | kerio | i mean, i love gecko, it's a really awesome html renderer and it's a cute animal too |
| 13:23.52 | timeless_chatweb | heh |
| 13:24.01 | kerio | but there is a reason other handheld platforms use webkit for their browser |
| 13:24.10 | timeless_chatweb | the system has *lots* of running processes |
| 13:24.16 | kerio | PULSEAUDIOOOOOOOOO |
| 13:24.24 | timeless_chatweb | linux desktops don't typically have as may, especially older desktops |
| 13:24.25 | kerio | almost forgot about that |
| 13:24.31 | Gorroth | hmm, where is that page that says if the autobuilder is building your things or not? |
| 13:24.52 | kerio | timeless_chatweb: well, my old desktop ran two users, one on kde and the other on gnome at the same time |
| 13:24.58 | kerio | with 384mb of ram |
| 13:25.33 | Gorroth | oh, whoops! it built already, and i just submitted again |
| 13:25.45 | Gorroth | well, anyway, now libnet-dev is available in extras-devel or should be soon |
| 13:26.01 | hrw | kerio: during UDS-N I met nokia guy which had 'nokia browser' based on webkit |
| 13:26.08 | kerio | timeless_chatweb: wait, what |
| 13:26.09 | hrw | Gorroth: libnet 1.0.x or 1.2.x? |
| 13:26.14 | kerio | what processes? |
| 13:26.18 | Gorroth | hrw: i started with 1.1.2.1 |
| 13:26.35 | Gorroth | hrw: i'll update it after i get ettercap uploaded |
| 13:26.40 | Gorroth | hrw: just working now with what i know works |
| 13:26.52 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 13:27.01 | MohammadAG | how do I cut out two lines from output? |
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| 13:28.33 | timeless_webchat | grr |
| 13:28.37 | timeless_webchat | where was i? |
| 13:28.51 | timeless_webchat | kerio: your computer had a 50% head start on memory vs the n900's 256mb |
| 13:29.08 | kerio | and ran gnome AND kde |
| 13:29.11 | kerio | (with massive swapping ofc) |
| 13:29.25 | timeless_webchat | the swap backing we have is also probably slower than a hdd from 3 years ago |
| 13:29.35 | iDont | I don't know if this matters, but AFAIK the n900 got just a 32-bit bus for the RAM |
| 13:29.45 | timeless_webchat | ? |
| 13:30.12 | iDont | moder pc's have bigger busses for the ram right? |
| 13:30.17 | iDont | *modern |
| 13:30.35 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:30.44 | iDont | so not only does the N900 got less ram, but also slower ram |
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| 13:30.58 | iDont | than the 386mb ram box probably had/had |
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| 13:31.15 | SpeedEvil | The swap backing is in some ways slower, some ways faster |
| 13:31.20 | SpeedEvil | It's not consistent. |
| 13:31.34 | SpeedEvil | In principle, it's _lotS_ faster if it's dealt with well. |
| 13:31.39 | SpeedEvil | But it's not. |
| 13:31.43 | MohammadAG | nvm, figured that out |
| 13:32.01 | MohammadAG | but, if I have lines with text and numbers, how do I filter out the text? |
| 13:32.01 | MohammadAG | sda |
| 13:32.01 | MohammadAG | sda1 |
| 13:32.07 | MohammadAG | I want only sda1 to show |
| 13:32.18 | MohammadAG | or sda[1..100] |
| 13:32.31 | alterego | Regular expressions |
| 13:32.39 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: what is the text? |
| 13:32.43 | hrw | MohammadAG: egrep sda[0-9]* |
| 13:32.56 | MohammadAG | e?grep? |
| 13:33.31 | alterego | but if you're thinking of parsing dmesg output to get the partitions that's nasty :P |
| 13:33.59 | MohammadAG | nah, that's stupid, cat /proc/partitions | awk '{print $4}' | awk '{ if ( NR > 2 ) { print } }' |
| 13:34.01 | MohammadAG | muhaha |
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| 13:34.25 | MohammadAG | hrw, didn't work btw, I have to take into account sdb too |
| 13:35.21 | hrw | MohammadAG: egrep sd[ab][0-9]* |
| 13:35.41 | SpeedEvil | awk 'NR>2{print $4}' /proc/partitions |
| 13:35.44 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG |
| 13:35.51 | hrw | 14:37 hrw@home:~$ ll /dev|egrep sd[a-l][0-9]* |
| 13:35.53 | Gorroth | lulz |
| 13:36.37 | Gorroth | tail +3 <file> |
| 13:36.40 | Gorroth | mwahahahaha |
| 13:36.49 | MohammadAG | thanks SpeedEvil, still stuck at the sd* part |
| 13:36.55 | SpeedEvil | what sd part? |
| 13:37.03 | SpeedEvil | I'm not understanding what output you're wanting |
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| 13:37.17 | MohammadAG | I want to list partitions, not blocks |
| 13:37.23 | alterego | MohammadAG: with your hostmode2 kernel, does your camera app still work? |
| 13:37.40 | MohammadAG | alterego, why wouldn't it |
| 13:37.45 | MohammadAG | unless you have fcam |
| 13:38.01 | SpeedEvil | awk 'NR>2&&$4~"[0-9]$"{print $4}' /proc/partitions |
| 13:38.04 | alterego | MohammadAG: I had to reflash stock PR1.3 kernel this morning because the stock camera app wouldn't work and GPS seemed to fail to work with my app. |
| 13:38.21 | MohammadAG | alterego, fcamera? |
| 13:38.32 | MohammadAG | as for GPS, it works |
| 13:38.41 | MohammadAG | I learned that the hard way |
| 13:38.49 | MohammadAG | was testing smscon from a classmate's device |
| 13:38.51 | SpeedEvil | If this is the third or successive line, and the fourth field matches the regex (has the last char a number) print the fourth field |
| 13:38.57 | alterego | This is GPS specifically through using Qt mobility. |
| 13:38.59 | MohammadAG | ten minutes later, his inbox had 10 messages from mine |
| 13:39.07 | alterego | The Maps app works fine. |
| 13:39.12 | MohammadAG | alterego, err, that's userspace |
| 13:39.37 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: actually - you can drop the first test - as the first two lines do not have a number in the fourth filed |
| 13:39.39 | alterego | Well, I'll have to investigate further, but I had to reflash stock PR1.3 kernel only and everything start working again. |
| 13:39.43 | MohammadAG | no idea then |
| 13:39.53 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, thanks! |
| 13:41.53 | MohammadAG | so in theory, this should work right? |
| 13:41.59 | MohammadAG | for partitions in "`awk '$4~"[0-9]$"{print $4}' /proc/partitions`" |
| 13:41.59 | MohammadAG | do mkdir /media/$partitions |
| 13:41.59 | MohammadAG | mount /dev/$partitions /media/$partitions |
| 13:41.59 | MohammadAG | done |
| 13:43.30 | SpeedEvil | ponders |
| 13:44.02 | SpeedEvil | mkdir -p would probably be a good idea |
| 13:44.13 | MohammadAG | indeed, forgot about that |
| 13:44.46 | SpeedEvil | Also - do you care about USB sticks being differentiable? |
| 13:46.22 | MohammadAG | hmm, shouldn't the default file manager using the partition name anyways? |
| 13:46.57 | MohammadAG | since it shows WD PASSPORT even if I mount the HDD on /media/folder |
| 13:48.02 | MohammadAG | what's the omap-aes driver? |
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| 13:55.42 | lardman | aes sounds like an encryption thingie |
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| 13:56.25 | lardman | so possibly a driver for the on-chip encryption hw? |
| 13:56.27 | X-Fade | That is a hardware aes encrypt/decrypt processor. |
| 13:57.03 | X-Fade | afaik there is also hardware md5/sha1 in there. |
| 13:57.05 | tobis87 | The omap-aes driver is the driver which uses the hardware acceleration which is built-in the omap cpu. |
| 13:57.33 | lardman | where is this driver? |
| 13:57.40 | lardman | on-device? |
| 13:57.40 | tobis87 | And a hardware random generator is also in there. |
| 13:58.38 | MohammadAG | someone fixed the driver |
| 13:58.43 | tobis87 | lardman: I have just posted the fix http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-November/027877.html |
| 13:58.46 | lardman | ah good stuff |
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| 13:59.02 | MohammadAG | so it builds against 2.6.28(?) |
| 13:59.59 | tobis87 | Yes, since I took the part which belongs into the kernel normally (platform driver) and merged it into the module. But you will need to update Nolo, or it will reboot your device. |
| 14:00.41 | jacekowski | X-Fade: yep, but docs how to use it are not public |
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| 14:01.01 | jacekowski | X-Fade: and somebody only released driver for aes part of it |
| 14:01.09 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: we have to talk |
| 14:01.26 | tobis87 | jacekowski: No, the package also include sha1-md5. 3DES is missing. |
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| 14:04.30 | tobis87 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:04.37 | lardman | does anyone know off hand who the author of the module is? Did it come from Ti's open sourcing venture? |
| 14:05.29 | tobis87 | lardman: Dmitry Kasatkin |
| 14:06.16 | lardman | Nokia then |
| 14:06.38 | tobis87 | Yes |
| 14:07.22 | tobis87 | But I still miss an engine for openssl, to make use of it in userspace. I now use it to encrypt the swap on the N900. |
| 14:07.48 | jacekowski | i don't get why you encrypt swap |
| 14:07.53 | jacekowski | there is nothing there |
| 14:08.06 | jacekowski | i mean, all passwords and stuff should be mlocked anyways |
| 14:08.35 | ShadowJK | I'd want to accelerate ssh |
| 14:08.58 | tobis87 | Because I can? :-D Don't know, I think it is a habit. |
| 14:13.46 | tobis87 | ShadowJK: Yes, I hope for a real engine for openssl. |
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| 14:21.16 | ShadowJK | does ssh even use openssl? |
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| 14:21.32 | jacekowski | yes |
| 14:24.05 | tobis87 | Yes, you will need to force openssl to do so. Padlock as an example: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=710243 |
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| 14:40.10 | gpgp | has anyone here moved the OS to the external card ? |
| 14:40.26 | gpgp | on a n810 i am talking about |
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| 14:41.58 | luke-jr_ | gpgp: my N810 runs Gentoo on an external card |
| 14:42.27 | gpgp | wow, i am way behind on this device |
| 14:43.08 | gpgp | i read a how to to move meamo to the ext card , wondering if it was still current. |
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| 14:43.40 | gpgp | luke-jr_: did you follow a guide or are you just smart ? |
| 14:43.56 | luke-jr_ | gpgp: what would you need a guide for? |
| 14:44.14 | alterego | Not too smart if he's using Gentoo :P |
| 14:44.17 | alterego | ooOOooooo |
| 14:44.34 | luke-jr_ | alterego: as if there's anything else for N8x0 |
| 14:44.35 | gpgp | i am getting old, cant remember stuff like i used to |
| 14:44.41 | luke-jr_ | Maemo is dead. Mer is dead. |
| 14:44.48 | luke-jr_ | nobody else supports N8x0 anymore |
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| 14:45.07 | alterego | Well, we're trying to from the MeeGo front. |
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| 14:45.19 | gpgp | i know, its just recently i found a new use for my device. it still has the same probs it always did, too slow , not enough ram etc |
| 14:45.25 | alterego | At least, the desire is there anyway .. |
| 14:45.38 | luke-jr_ | gpgp: RAM isn't too bad if you run it CLI |
| 14:45.50 | gpgp | what is the functionality of running geentoo on it ? |
| 14:46.09 | gpgp | i want to use it as a bike computer |
| 14:46.21 | gpgp | maybe with arduino input ? |
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| 14:47.51 | luke-jr_ | gpgp: the same functionality Gentoo has anywhere |
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| 14:50.09 | gpgp | i guess i will stick with meamo but on the ext card for more room. thanks luke-jr_ |
| 14:50.28 | luke-jr_ | Maemo is dead. |
| 14:50.51 | Appiah | ooooh boy |
| 14:51.12 | gpgp | but it has the basic functionality i need. it is not like the n810 is going to grow into better hardware |
| 14:52.15 | luke-jr_ | it also has security holes, etc |
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| 14:53.42 | gpgp | not too worried about security on a bicycle computer really |
| 14:54.04 | luke-jr_ | will h4x u when he drives by |
| 14:54.13 | luke-jr_ | just to prove a point |
| 14:54.23 | gpgp | oh my god he could find out my average speed |
| 14:54.44 | nidO | its way more sinister than that, he could also get your total distance travelled. |
| 14:55.12 | gpgp | perhaps point of origin, that could be bbad |
| 14:57.19 | gpgp | anyone else put other distros on it ? |
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| 15:29.16 | johnsq | Hi |
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| 15:53.58 | alterego | Weird, |
| 15:54.11 | alterego | My app is taking 90% CPU and it's not actually really doing anything. |
| 15:55.16 | alterego | Should just be processing an event that occurs every second |
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| 15:55.46 | MohammadAG | alterego, N900/IO? |
| 15:56.05 | alterego | Nope, should be doing much IO |
| 15:56.09 | alterego | ~shouldn't. |
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| 15:58.02 | Turski | alterego: sleep probably shows up as 100%... |
| 15:58.17 | alterego | Erm. don't think so :P |
| 15:59.26 | Turski | well, probably not... |
| 15:59.52 | Turski | i thought that i had seen such with shell script sleep on n900 |
| 16:00.13 | alterego | It's rendering |
| 16:00.36 | alterego | Think I need to look into the optimizations I made on my widgets again. |
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| 16:04.19 | alterego | stops the animation on his suspected CPU killing widget ^.^ |
| 16:04.27 | zap | X-Fade: have you looked at the unzip problem? |
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| 16:04.58 | alterego | < 1% before events start happening. |
| 16:05.29 | X-Fade | zap: Yes, but it isn't a quick fix. I can't pinpoint the exact cause of the issue yet. |
| 16:05.45 | zap | X-Fade: thank you, I'll wait |
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| 16:06.25 | MohammadAG | sighs - need to find a way to get HAM to recognize my damn repo |
| 16:06.42 | alterego | Hrm, ~20% improvement. |
| 16:06.42 | MohammadAG | I'm seeing </certified> on Nokia's repos, maybe I should add that? |
| 16:06.50 | alterego | Which is actually what I would have guessed. |
| 16:07.00 | alterego | So 60% CPU usage :/ |
| 16:07.00 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Yes, maybe that helps. |
| 16:07.27 | alterego | avg 50% it would seem. |
| 16:07.44 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, can I upload an older version of a package? |
| 16:08.15 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Yes, you have direct access to the queue. So you can do that. |
| 16:08.31 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, note the "older" |
| 16:08.42 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Yeah, don't use the builder ;) |
| 16:08.49 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 16:08.54 | MohammadAG | so it won't be REJECTED then? |
| 16:09.07 | MohammadAG | makes version 0 of community package |
| 16:09.23 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: I don't think there is a in your queue. |
| 16:09.33 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: But what would that solve? |
| 16:09.35 | MohammadAG | any .service file experts? |
| 16:10.02 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, it would allow users to see what they're upgrading, instead of the current way |
| 16:10.29 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: I can wipe the repo if needed. |
| 16:10.48 | MohammadAG | i.e install version 0 of community package, launch HAM to allow the user to update with a UI |
| 16:11.11 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: That won't help anything? |
| 16:11.38 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: The problem you have is that existing packages have been installed from another package domain. |
| 16:11.38 | MohammadAG | it will, the current way involves opening a terminal and forcing installations |
| 16:11.57 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, different problem :P |
| 16:12.06 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: More important though. |
| 16:12.12 | MohammadAG | indeed |
| 16:12.21 | MohammadAG | just wondering though |
| 16:12.27 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: If you can't fix that, then everything else you do is useless. |
| 16:12.44 | MohammadAG | is there a way to launch something via DBus without having an icon? |
| 16:13.01 | alterego | Heh, I can decrease CPU usage by about 20% if I decrease the property animations' duration |
| 16:13.40 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, what about removing Nokia's domains? |
| 16:13.50 | MohammadAG | if all fails of course |
| 16:13.51 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: No, don't do that ;) |
| 16:14.22 | MohammadAG | it would be really useful if HAM devs could assist us |
| 16:14.31 | MohammadAG | since the configuration changed from Diablo to Fremantle |
| 16:14.31 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: I'd find out how package domains are identified. If it is the level, then take the same number. |
| 16:15.02 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: We need to find out where the package->repo relation is stored. |
| 16:15.35 | MohammadAG | hmm, in the configuration file? :) |
| 16:15.36 | MohammadAG | hildon-application-manager-config dump |
| 16:15.53 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: But try the certified thing first. |
| 16:16.38 | MohammadAG | hmm, no, that's not it |
| 16:17.50 | MohammadAG | the latest community-ssu-enabler already has it |
| 16:18.20 | MohammadAG | we need HAM's devs, or someone who can read C (properly) |
| 16:18.37 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Marius should know. |
| 16:19.01 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (~lardman@78.149.15.75) |
| 16:19.01 | MohammadAG | Lucas? He saw no problems with it |
| 16:19.07 | E0x | what i can use for fordward a call to take it in the pc when i am at home ? |
| 16:19.13 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Ask him on the list, he should read it. Usually wants to help. |
| 16:19.17 | E0x | ( asterisk install in the n900 ? ) |
| 16:19.45 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: No, Marius Vollmer. |
| 16:19.54 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-November/027849.html |
| 16:19.58 | MohammadAG | oh |
| 16:19.58 | E0x | i maybe i could use pulseaudio tu reroute the mic/output |
| 16:19.59 | E0x | ? |
| 16:20.03 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: He designed the whole thing, so :) |
| 16:20.53 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, also, one more thing, when replying to mailing lists, does something have to be set in your client's settings? |
| 16:21.10 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Only the right email address which is subscribed. |
| 16:21.15 | MohammadAG | modest doesn't seem to work properly for that, replied to a message once and it made a new topic |
| 16:21.18 | Jaffa | m-vo is a helpful chap, though |
| 16:21.20 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Reply to all usually works. Some clients have reply to list. |
| 16:21.27 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Using what client? |
| 16:21.31 | MohammadAG | and gmail.com? |
| 16:21.56 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: reply-all works fine there. |
| 16:22.34 | MohammadAG | will reply then :) |
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| 16:22.44 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, used thunderbird for a while, then went back to webmail |
| 16:22.58 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Please do, he really should know. |
| 16:22.58 | Jaffa | Gmail works fine for me in terms of "reply all" and not breaking the list threading. |
| 16:23.27 | X-Fade | uses a labs plugin to 'reply to all' by default |
| 16:24.10 | MohammadAG | does thunderbird support IMAP Idle? |
| 16:24.52 | Aranel | My Conversations app is bugged, It's showing a weird scrollbar and touch scrolling is not working. Can someone help me about it please? Screenshot: http://i55.tinypic.com/2vw6adt.png Strace: http://pastebin.com/rcvvYa3r |
| 16:25.24 | X-Fade | bbl, dinner. |
| 16:25.41 | MohammadAG | Aranel, did you try yesterday's suggestions? |
| 16:26.20 | Aranel | MohammadAG51: gconftool, reinstalling hildon alpha/beta, reboot? all 3 of them. |
| 16:26.39 | Aranel | MohammadAG51: I'm not sure about the gconftool way, there was TONS of entries :| |
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| 16:29.29 | crashanddie_ | there were |
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| 16:29.52 | Aranel | yeah, there were. |
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| 16:36.05 | Aranel | lol strace output makes me feel quite awkward. It just looks like some ancient language, and I don't recognize any word from that language. |
| 16:36.29 | jacekowski | it's just showing syscalls |
| 16:36.33 | psycho_oreos | at least you could say that would make you look nerdy :p |
| 16:36.57 | jacekowski | but i would personally add some stuff to it |
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| 16:37.19 | jacekowski | like showing file name as well as handle for read/close/something like that |
| 16:37.37 | Aranel | haha It would make me look nerdy, If I could understand anything about it, so I could make a "smart" face gesture instead of "I'm so screwed" gesture. |
| 16:38.11 | Aranel | jacekowski: tried that one too (http://pastebin.com/1rCi0U6K) there's some read entries |
| 16:38.23 | Aranel | with really weird numbers and symbols |
| 16:39.06 | psycho_oreos | trust me.. you haven't been through "I'm so screwed" state :) I've visited boot loops 3 times in two days in an attempt to restore my n900 setup.. it'll become my frankenstein project in the making |
| 16:40.14 | Aranel | psycho_oreos: oops. yeah It looks worse :p |
| 16:41.12 | Aranel | but maybe you had an idea about what you are doing :p I'm just trying my luck to fix this issue, and I'm not lucky. |
| 16:46.47 | psycho_oreos | not really, I'm tired and pissed off, looks like frankenstein doesn't want to be reborn :/ flashing for the 4th time in two days |
| 16:48.05 | Aranel | psycho_oreos: what exactly is wrong with it? |
| 16:48.15 | wmarone | have you flashed both eMMC and the rootfs? |
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| 16:50.23 | psycho_oreos | Aranel, shouldn't have symlinked /var/log to /opt/var/log, it caused X.org to display nothing upon rebooting.. Since then I've used dar to restore setup but that has caused device to malfunction and boot loops, then I retried copying specific directories, no dice, device rebooted automatically and now it just doesn't want to boot up.. again bootloops so now I'll have to reflash it for the 4th time and probably will have to start from scratch |
| 16:50.34 | svuorela | hmm... shouldn't I be ablre to update to pr1.3 from the phone itself ? |
| 16:50.38 | psycho_oreos | wmarone, no need, just doing rootfs only |
| 16:50.54 | psycho_oreos | yes via HAM |
| 16:51.16 | Aranel | I'm changing my question, since nobody is able to answer it: can I track filesystem reads (which config file is opened) for an application (rtcom-messaging-ui) ? |
| 16:51.42 | ieatlint | lsof might be able to do it |
| 16:51.49 | Aranel | svuorela: you are able to do it. |
| 16:51.57 | wmarone | psycho_oreos: so you keep breaking your device? |
| 16:52.09 | Aranel | psycho_oreos: maybe you can try meego rescue initrd? |
| 16:52.31 | psycho_oreos | Aranel, was about to suggest lsof but that would take a snapshot rather than constant and live tracking |
| 16:52.42 | BCMM | Aranel: if you know which files you're interested in, inotify is simple |
| 16:52.47 | psycho_oreos | wmarone, currently when its not what I want it to do |
| 16:52.55 | MohammadAG | hmm |
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| 16:53.01 | MohammadAG | Aranel, it's a CSS issue I guess |
| 16:53.11 | svuorela | Aranel: what do I need to do to become able to do it? |
| 16:53.13 | MohammadAG | not sure where rtcom-messaging-ui's CSS template is |
| 16:53.17 | MohammadAG | though tmo should knwo |
| 16:53.19 | MohammadAG | knwo |
| 16:53.20 | MohammadAG | sigh |
| 16:53.24 | MohammadAG | know* |
| 16:53.28 | Aranel | nope I don't. Conversations app is loading some weird config files from somewhere, and displaying a scrollbar, messing up everything. |
| 16:53.56 | jacekowski | CSS? |
| 16:54.03 | jacekowski | it's using html for this stuff? |
| 16:54.06 | ieatlint | Aranel: possible to run it with strace? |
| 16:54.28 | Aranel | MohammadAG51: it's /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/html. Tried changing them, tried getting original ones (if mine is corrupt) from my friend and copying them, tried installing mods on them. Didn't help with the scrollbar issue. |
| 16:54.49 | jacekowski | strace -f rtcom-messaging-ui 2>&1 | grep open |
| 16:55.02 | jacekowski | this will give you list of files it's opening |
| 16:55.03 | Aranel | ieatlint: done that but I cant understand anything on that output :p there's some reads and some opens, with numbers and symbols on it. |
| 16:55.17 | ieatlint | what jacekowski just said |
| 16:55.54 | Aranel | in fact, I tried that one too :| It's not showing up all of them, for example, it's not showing up the HTML/CSS files. |
| 16:56.25 | Aranel | according to strace open() only 5 files opened, 2 of them are databases, 3 of them are icons/useless stuff. |
| 16:56.50 | ieatlint | perhaps it's accessing the info through an api, and doesn't open the files itself |
| 16:57.01 | Aranel | svuorela: just try upgrading via Application Manager, I guess? |
| 16:57.36 | svuorela | Aranel: yeah. it says no. use pc suite. |
| 16:57.48 | Aranel | maybe. So I want to track whole filesystem read calls, to find out which files are read when using conversations. |
| 16:58.11 | Aranel | svuorela: you need at least 40~ megabytes of free rootfs space and you should remove any conflicting packages. |
| 16:58.17 | jacekowski | no |
| 16:58.20 | jacekowski | not read calls |
| 16:58.21 | jacekowski | open calls |
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| 16:58.31 | jacekowski | read calls are not really as important |
| 16:58.31 | Aranel | oops, open calls :) |
| 17:00.29 | Aranel | here's the open calls (from strace): http://pastebin.com/G30F0eKL |
| 17:00.53 | Aranel | It's not mentioning any UI elements, HTML/CSS files, anything. I should track all opened files for.. 20 seconds? |
| 17:02.10 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80.186.219.59) |
| 17:02.52 | svuorela | Aranel: I have around 65 M free |
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| 17:03.19 | jacekowski | Aranel: have you added -f to strace commandline? |
| 17:03.23 | Aranel | svuorela: then you should take care of conflicting packages. Mostly they are games; like brainparty,openarena etc. |
| 17:03.48 | Aranel | jacekowski: oh.. guess not :| |
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| 17:04.01 | Aranel | jacekowski: what is the exact arguments I should add? -o , -f and -p? |
| 17:04.16 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:04.47 | Glaubenskrieger | hi, i have fMMS installed, and my device always choose the MMS connection, how can i change it, that the device automatically chooses the other internet connection? |
| 17:05.11 | chem|st | Glaubenskrieger: change the mode to havoc |
| 17:05.16 | chem|st | in fmms |
| 17:05.32 | jacekowski | it would be nice to get specs for rapuyama |
| 17:05.39 | Glaubenskrieger | thx |
| 17:05.50 | jacekowski | because i'm willing to bet that rapuyama can have two data connection open at the same time |
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| 17:08.14 | Aranel | jacekowski: http://pastebin.com/8KQQ0yEH now some new entries added, but they don't look like config files. |
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| 17:40.36 | Gorroth | so, my earlier build of libnet-dev didn't go well. i accidentally submitted twice while it was building (not sure why autobuilder doesn't check for that) |
| 17:41.02 | Gorroth | anyway, i resubmitted an update. so, it installs correctly on the n900 now |
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| 17:41.39 | Gorroth | it is in extras-devel. the final step before i submit ettercap in a little while :) |
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| 17:42.46 | slonopotamus | yawns |
| 17:43.23 | Necc | idd |
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| 17:47.34 | javispedro | morning #maemo |
| 17:47.50 | javispedro | does evil laughter again |
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| 17:57.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | lo javispedro |
| 17:59.22 | Aranel | [Repost] How can I track whole filesystem open calls on Maemo? |
| 17:59.30 | javispedro | inotify? |
| 17:59.51 | javispedro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify |
| 17:59.55 | Aranel | but I don't know which ones I should track, does it work without knowing it? |
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| 18:01.04 | slonopotamus | Aranel: strace on all running processes with forks follow enabled? |
| 18:01.15 | slonopotamus | Aranel: why you want that? |
| 18:01.21 | javispedro | you'd need to do quite a lot of logic to track all files, then set up inotify watches for all of them.. |
| 18:01.23 | Aranel | slonopotamus: how can I do that? can you give me an example command? |
| 18:01.39 | RST38h | Moo, all |
| 18:01.45 | Aranel | well, my conversations app is kinda messed up because of a corrupt config file, but I don't know which one. |
| 18:01.47 | RST38h | javispedro, heffalump: heya |
| 18:01.59 | javispedro | hello RST38h |
| 18:02.00 | slonopotamus | RST38h: ohai |
| 18:02.47 | Aranel | so I'm going to track filesystem for open calls, and find out which files are opening on Conversations start-up. |
| 18:02.56 | SpeedEvil | strace is what you probably want |
| 18:02.58 | javispedro | Aranel: there's going to be like, half a billion open calls. |
| 18:03.12 | javispedro | Aranel: you really should try to reduce the set of processes you will be monitoring |
| 18:03.13 | slonopotamus | Aranel: strace -f -p <pid> |
| 18:03.46 | Aranel | slonopotamus: tried that, gave me some of open calls, not all of them. (no html/css files included, or conf files) |
| 18:04.05 | RST38h | html/css may have been preloaded at startup |
| 18:04.12 | slonopotamus | Aranel: there's microb proccess running for rendering |
| 18:04.19 | slonopotamus | Aranel: prestarted |
| 18:04.42 | Aranel | I did killall rtcom-messaging-ui |
| 18:04.47 | Aranel | then strace'd it. |
| 18:05.19 | slonopotamus | Aranel: /usr/sbin/browserd -s <num> -n browserui |
| 18:05.37 | javispedro | "Mystery Missile Launch Seen off Calif. Coast" |
| 18:05.38 | slonopotamus | Aranel: that thing renders dialogs afaik |
| 18:05.59 | RST38h | http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7036716.shtml |
| 18:05.59 | javispedro | lol |
| 18:05.59 | RST38h | javispedro: shit we are reading the same rss |
| 18:06.01 | javispedro | RST38h: aka slashdot? |
| 18:06.07 | RST38h | Fucking SYCHRONOUSLY |
| 18:06.18 | Aranel | slonopotamus: oh, maybe I misunderstood you. Does it work with Conversations app? see: http://i55.tinypic.com/2vw6adt.png I want to remove that scrollbar, and It's showing up because of a config file. |
| 18:06.20 | RST38h | javispedro: nah, I am no longer reading slashdot directly |
| 18:06.29 | javispedro | well I was =) |
| 18:06.32 | RST38h | javispedro: but it is in my google reader list indeed |
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| 18:11.08 | Gorroth | google reader is teh awesum |
| 18:11.12 | slonopotamus | unlimited 3g sucks battery too fast :( |
| 18:11.27 | RST38h | heh |
| 18:11.33 | RST38h | which provider, which plan? |
| 18:11.40 | SpeedEvil | Sue them! |
| 18:11.45 | SpeedEvil | It's limited by battery. |
| 18:11.46 | Gorroth | slonopotamus: yeah. im |
| 18:11.49 | SpeedEvil | That's gotta be illegal. |
| 18:11.51 | Gorroth | oops |
| 18:12.10 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 18:12.12 | cehteh | strap a big 12V car battery on your device :) |
| 18:12.16 | javispedro | RST38h: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/e3gf3/a_missile_was_launched_off_the_california_coast/c14zqpm |
| 18:12.20 | javispedro | RST38h: see first comment |
| 18:12.21 | slonopotamus | RST38h: megafon, basic (128kbps for 220rubles (~$7) per month) |
| 18:12.24 | Gorroth | slonopotamus: yeah. i'm gonna buy one of those big ass n900 batteries to handle heavy use |
| 18:13.09 | slonopotamus | RST38h: they have several plans up to 7mbps for $50/month |
| 18:13.20 | RST38h | slonopotamus: 128kbps is eGPRS speed. |
| 18:13.40 | slonopotamus | RST38h: it's artificially limited |
| 18:13.53 | RST38h | slonopotamus: so, simplyforce your phone to 2.5g and save on battery :) |
| 18:13.56 | slonopotamus | RST38h: but still, $7/month |
| 18:14.00 | Gorroth | tmo will give me 24 hr unlimited for 1.49 usd per each day i buy it |
| 18:14.09 | Gorroth | pas as you go! :) |
| 18:14.11 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@212.103.70.50) |
| 18:14.14 | Gorroth | pay* |
| 18:14.16 | RST38h | slonopotamus: I pay $10-$15 a month for unlim speed :) |
| 18:14.17 | slonopotamus | RST38h: how i do that? |
| 18:14.22 | Gorroth | i can't type on the nOPP |
| 18:14.28 | Gorroth | n900!!!! |
| 18:14.32 | RST38h | slonopotamus: MTS Internet+ (4.25r per MB) |
| 18:14.35 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:14.53 | RST38h | slonopotamus: There is an applet that lets you force phone to 2g or 3g or auto |
| 18:14.56 | SpeedEvil | I can type at around 25-30wpm on n900....... |
| 18:15.12 | Gorroth | really? you must practice on it a lot |
| 18:15.21 | slonopotamus | RST38h: meh, i spent around $30 when used plan with price like yours |
| 18:15.33 | SpeedEvil | Gorroth: my laptop died. I used it for a week |
| 18:15.37 | SpeedEvil | IRCing |
| 18:15.41 | RST38h | slono: but then, I am not running it around the clock :) |
| 18:15.42 | Gorroth | ah ha |
| 18:16.02 | slonopotamus | RST38h: i use it around 2.5h a day |
| 18:16.09 | nidO | I just fire up the ole E90 when I need to type properly while mobile \o/ |
| 18:16.33 | RST38h | slonopo: same here |
| 18:16.36 | Gorroth | SpeedEvil: which irc client do you use on it? i'm using irssi, but i have to keep the xterm fonts small to make it usable |
| 18:16.42 | SpeedEvil | xchat |
| 18:16.56 | Gorroth | oh, i should try that |
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| 18:19.39 | nidO | bangs head on desk over ovi suite |
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| 18:22.51 | javispedro | "We need to know how to decompile the code to recompile for our processors because the bytecode will not be compatible as is" |
| 18:23.01 | javispedro | sighs |
| 18:23.38 | luke-jr | ⦠|
| 18:23.45 | jacekowski | that's not exactly true for arm |
| 18:23.49 | javispedro | I know. |
| 18:23.53 | javispedro | it's plain bullshit. |
| 18:24.04 | javispedro | that is what happens when you put tech info a thread full of lemmings. |
| 18:24.06 | jacekowski | where have you found it? |
| 18:24.10 | javispedro | xda developers |
| 18:24.14 | jacekowski | link |
| 18:24.33 | jacekowski | thing is that it's true for architectures with variable opcode size |
| 18:24.36 | *** join/#maemo marcel (~marcels@5265C40E.cm-8.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 18:24.47 | javispedro | ... aka not ARM. |
| 18:24.47 | jacekowski | like x86, arm with thumb |
| 18:25.07 | RST38h | slono: have to note though that we have got wifi at workplace |
| 18:25.23 | RST38h | javispedro: source of the quote? |
| 18:25.27 | *** join/#maemo Vratha (~grimw@65.242.168.143) |
| 18:25.27 | jacekowski | with arm, plain bruteforce decoding of opcodes and then assembling again will work, but it has downsides, like no way to modify it |
| 18:25.41 | Gorroth | Vratha: hi |
| 18:25.46 | Vratha | hi |
| 18:25.48 | jacekowski | you need inteligent disassembler to do any work |
| 18:26.05 | javispedro | jacekowski: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8886936&postcount=14 |
| 18:26.07 | RST38h | loudly wonders if anyone has heard of dynamic recompilation |
| 18:26.13 | Vratha | well i am also gorroth. just testing xchat on the n900 |
| 18:26.47 | jacekowski | rotfl |
| 18:26.52 | jacekowski | that's bs |
| 18:26.56 | jacekowski | snapdragon == arm |
| 18:27.01 | RST38h | javispedro: are these pleasant people trying to run Snapdragon code on a Samsungor somethign? :) |
| 18:27.21 | javispedro | RST38h: let's say I found the thread "by chance", and I'm quite laughing at their approach. |
| 18:27.49 | RST38h | javispedro: ARMv7 willrun ARMv6 code, but you still have to precheck it for system instructions |
| 18:27.54 | jacekowski | javispedro: bytecode is compatible, it's just instruction set is different |
| 18:28.06 | *** join/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:28.12 | RST38h | javispedro: To run ARMv7 on ARMv6 you do need code analysis |
| 18:28.18 | RST38h | which can be made automatic |
| 18:28.25 | jacekowski | not really |
| 18:28.26 | javispedro | and static |
| 18:28.37 | jacekowski | static will fail |
| 18:28.52 | jacekowski | static code analysis ussually fails |
| 18:28.53 | javispedro | jacekowski: this is a GNU/Linux system. Not some assembly developer's playground. |
| 18:29.07 | RST38h | javispedro: it really better be dynamic |
| 18:29.17 | RST38h | javispedro: but yes, you can probably do a lot of it statically |
| 18:29.26 | RST38h | and cache the result |
| 18:29.57 | jacekowski | javispedro: disassembler have to run all possible code paths and then replace all problematic instructions with alternatives |
| 18:30.15 | jacekowski | javispedro: but then adresses will shift |
| 18:30.23 | *** join/#maemo jas4711 (~jas@c80-216-27-64.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:30.24 | *** join/#maemo arantala (~opera@cs181057221.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:30.28 | jacekowski | or you do more complicated stuff with codecaves |
| 18:30.59 | jacekowski | that's why runtime recompilation would be the best option |
| 18:31.09 | javispedro | or you just trap SIGILLs and hope they do not use uxth much =) |
| 18:31.21 | jacekowski | yep |
| 18:31.34 | jacekowski | just catch illegal instructions and emulate them |
| 18:31.46 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (~bilboed@74.pool85-50-217.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 18:32.05 | jacekowski | sort of like a virtualisation |
| 18:32.42 | SpeedEvil | catch illegal, emulate, and patch, so you only do it once? |
| 18:32.56 | jacekowski | you can't shift adresses |
| 18:33.03 | jacekowski | you can optimise it with lookup tables |
| 18:33.04 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 18:33.06 | jacekowski | so it will remember |
| 18:33.13 | jacekowski | what is supposed to be executed there |
| 18:33.23 | jacekowski | so it will not have to reanalyse opcode |
| 18:33.38 | jacekowski | so penalty will be minimal |
| 18:33.47 | jacekowski | sort of like JIT compilation |
| 18:33.48 | javispedro | kernel entry |
| 18:33.56 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~dvaske@nat/nokia/x-ahkjldrcagjhiola) |
| 18:33.59 | javispedro | which may not acceptable for uxth |
| 18:34.03 | javispedro | *be |
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| 18:34.23 | *** join/#maemo goldbergus (~mirc631@53-10-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 18:34.49 | javispedro | I'd personally just replace all instances of new opcodes with BL to emulated functions in a fixed address. |
| 18:34.57 | javispedro | statically, pre binary launch. |
| 18:35.12 | jacekowski | how do you know that it's an opcode not data? |
| 18:35.21 | javispedro | you can, statically. |
| 18:35.33 | RST38h | Folks, have you actually considered if all this stuff is worth it? |
| 18:35.37 | javispedro | because I'm making the assumption this is not a assembly developer's playground |
| 18:35.37 | RST38h | In the above case, I mean |
| 18:35.45 | RST38h | javispedro: wrong assumption |
| 18:35.52 | jacekowski | javispedro: it will not work |
| 18:36.10 | jacekowski | and what if program is compressed with UPX |
| 18:36.12 | javispedro | I know there are counter examples. why it won't work for 90% of the code? |
| 18:36.12 | jacekowski | or polymorphic |
| 18:36.30 | javispedro | is there a polymorphic or upx compressed program in the Maemo base image? |
| 18:36.49 | jacekowski | sort of, no |
| 18:36.53 | javispedro | my point. |
| 18:37.00 | jacekowski | fmtxd will not run with simple static analysis |
| 18:37.06 | RST38h | why? |
| 18:37.20 | jacekowski | because parts of code are unreachable |
| 18:37.57 | jacekowski | pointers to functions are passed to gtk and gtk will call them |
| 18:38.00 | jacekowski | or dbus |
| 18:38.02 | jacekowski | i'm not sure |
| 18:38.10 | javispedro | good point. you'd need to know about all external deps. |
| 18:38.28 | jacekowski | that's why runtime analysis is better |
| 18:38.33 | jacekowski | because you cover all scenarios |
| 18:38.47 | Jaffa | "statically" and "all possible code paths" is the Halting Problem. |
| 18:38.57 | javispedro | I know. |
| 18:38.57 | jacekowski | and you don't have to mess up with sections |
| 18:39.11 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~choppa@mnch-4d044f19.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:39.15 | javispedro | you can always fsck up any static analysis |
| 18:39.36 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~nobody@cpc5-cmbg14-0-0-cust982.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:39.59 | *** join/#maemo erani_ (eran-@garde.fi) |
| 18:40.03 | javispedro | ie for ex. you could start doing arithmethic with function pointers. |
| 18:40.51 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.169.60) |
| 18:40.56 | javispedro | now the question would be a ) who does that? b ) does the compiler insert code that might do that in predictable fashion? |
| 18:41.20 | javispedro | so, just trap SIGILLs :) |
| 18:41.27 | jacekowski | exactly |
| 18:41.40 | jacekowski | trap sigills, emulate and run |
| 18:41.59 | jacekowski | IDA is one of the best static analysis tools |
| 18:42.06 | jacekowski | and still fails quite often |
| 18:43.04 | jacekowski | because gcc tends to mix data with code and sometimes you end up with function pointers somewhere in data section |
| 18:43.12 | jacekowski | like nolo for example |
| 18:43.52 | javispedro | ponders |
| 18:44.08 | javispedro | when IDA fails to distinguish text/data its usually trivially visible to human eye |
| 18:44.22 | javispedro | there has to be some kind of analysis that can do that too. |
| 18:44.35 | javispedro | should make for a nice paper (hint =) ) |
| 18:44.49 | jacekowski | you will always have cases when that fails |
| 18:45.10 | javispedro | ofc, because I was thinking statistical |
| 18:45.21 | jacekowski | with normal code ida probably cover over 90% of code correctly |
| 18:45.23 | javispedro | but, take a conservative approach |
| 18:45.42 | jacekowski | but then you still have 10% that can be code or data |
| 18:45.52 | javispedro | which you then emulate. |
| 18:45.55 | jacekowski | and as long as it's not 100% that's done correctly you can't do it |
| 18:46.34 | jacekowski | but then you can never be sure if you don't have 1% of data that was treated as a code |
| 18:46.39 | jacekowski | and will cause your program to fail |
| 18:46.44 | javispedro | also notes that ELF may have information to help, for ex. position of pools, etc. at least with debug symbols. |
| 18:47.12 | jacekowski | you have to be 100% sure that you will not have false positives |
| 18:47.16 | trumee | anybody using pptp on N900? |
| 18:47.53 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@static-87-79-75-7.netcologne.de) |
| 18:48.20 | trumee | i want to add/delete routes on N900. I can do "/sbin/route add -net 192.58.150.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 dev ppp0" in ip-up.d, but how do delete this route in ip-down.d ? |
| 18:48.57 | jacekowski | trumee: man route |
| 18:48.57 | trumee | basically, instead of routing everthing through the tunnel, i only want to route specific ip address. |
| 18:49.29 | *** join/#maemo rtyler (~tyler@63-246-20-94.contegix.com) |
| 18:51.16 | X-Fade | mece: autobuilder doesn't set anything specific for -O2 builds. |
| 18:51.38 | trumee | the default behaviour on N900 is to route everything through ppp0, how do i disable that first? |
| 18:51.56 | mece | X-Fade, I see. but howcome it builds with -O2 when scratchbox doesn't? |
| 18:52.22 | mece | X-Fade, I need -O0 btw. -O2 segfaults |
| 18:52.42 | X-Fade | mece: Can be because we use the squeeze devkit. |
| 18:52.51 | javispedro | mece: are you using CFLAGS in your rules or Makefile but not setting them in your rules file? |
| 18:53.10 | *** join/#maemo foxfell (~foxfell@93-120-230-64.dynamic.mts-nn.ru) |
| 18:53.18 | javispedro | mece: for ex. autoconf might be reading that env var. |
| 18:53.25 | mece | javispedro, I don't know, I'll check. I'm in the middle of reinstalling scratchbox now though. |
| 18:53.46 | javispedro | mece: next package ensure to set the CFLAGS you want in rules file. |
| 18:53.47 | mece | javispedro, so what should I do to make -O0 stick? |
| 18:54.11 | mece | javispedro, that's what I tried but it didn't seem to work. |
| 18:54.21 | javispedro | package name? |
| 18:54.28 | mece | javispedro, wesnoth |
| 18:54.49 | mece | javispedro, I've been at this for several occasions, but haven't gotten it fixed. |
| 18:54.51 | javispedro | 328MiB!! |
| 18:55.02 | javispedro | how do you get this into the autobuilder? lol :) |
| 18:55.07 | X-Fade | lol, yeah a monster. |
| 18:55.10 | mece | it's not that big |
| 18:55.13 | mece | 3Mb or so. |
| 18:55.18 | javispedro | Need to get 328MB of source archives. |
| 18:55.19 | mece | wesnoth-data |
| 18:55.31 | mece | is big |
| 18:55.51 | javispedro | I guess wesnoth-data's source package is wesnoth |
| 18:55.52 | mece | and I can't get that one into the autobuilder. I don't know how it originally got there. |
| 18:56.10 | mece | I wasn't the original maintainer |
| 18:56.14 | javispedro | aaa |
| 18:56.45 | mece | I did some workarounds to make it work with the existing data package. |
| 18:57.29 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-109-144.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:57.32 | javispedro | when did you send it to autobuilder? not in november? |
| 18:57.38 | javispedro | https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-November/thread.html |
| 18:57.48 | mece | javispedro, ages ago |
| 18:58.03 | mece | javispedro, I didn't want to send new ones because they all segfaulted |
| 18:58.28 | javispedro | mece: I mean, the one that failed to built or that built with -O2? |
| 18:58.28 | mece | javispedro, I put up a deb I built in sb on my own website so that people could play it. |
| 18:58.47 | mece | javispedro, it builds fine, and uses -O2, and segfaults on launch |
| 18:59.00 | mece | javispedro, in sb it builds without -O2 and works fine. |
| 18:59.00 | javispedro | mece: are you on diablo btw? |
| 18:59.07 | mece | javispedro, fremantle |
| 18:59.12 | mece | diablo works |
| 18:59.16 | mece | afaik |
| 18:59.33 | javispedro | weird, I thought the frementle toolchain had way less bugs. |
| 19:00.08 | mece | javispedro, not sure if it's a bug. |
| 19:00.15 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-162-149.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 19:00.29 | javispedro | unfortunately I can only find wesnoth packages uploaded by mikkov in logs... so can't check. |
| 19:00.29 | mece | ooh |
| 19:00.29 | Venemo_N900 | hi |
| 19:00.29 | mece | well no problems then |
| 19:00.29 | mece | :D |
| 19:00.32 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: ping |
| 19:00.35 | mece | forget everything |
| 19:00.45 | javispedro | mece: wouldn't you remember approximately when you uploaded it? |
| 19:00.48 | javispedro | mece: ah well, ok. |
| 19:01.17 | mece | I never a mail about him getting maintainer rights, so I figured he forgot about it or didn't have time. |
| 19:01.32 | javispedro | last upload by him was in september seems |
| 19:01.41 | mece | s/never a/never got a/ |
| 19:01.52 | mece | well then I guess it's fixed. |
| 19:02.12 | mece | javispedro, since he knows his stuff. |
| 19:02.18 | javispedro | mece: this is one such package uploaded by him https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/wesnoth_1.8.4-0maemo1/ |
| 19:02.47 | mece | oo nice he upgraded to 1.8.4 :) |
| 19:04.22 | mece | interesting. he's still not listed as a maintainer... |
| 19:05.04 | Noobmonk3y | grumbles |
| 19:07.35 | nidO | whassup. |
| 19:09.19 | crashanddie | wonders if he should go get CoD or not |
| 19:09.51 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (~lardman@78.145.240.255) |
| 19:10.17 | MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, pong, xchat isn't highlighting me |
| 19:10.30 | Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: sry |
| 19:10.31 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, if you do, tell me how it compares to MW2 |
| 19:10.51 | crashanddie | well |
| 19:10.54 | crashanddie | MW2 was awesome |
| 19:11.06 | crashanddie | it's going to be pretty hard to beat |
| 19:11.11 | MohammadAG | indeed, and anything by tryearch isn't |
| 19:11.20 | Aranel | My Conversations app is bugged, It's showing a weird scrollbar and touch scrolling is not working. Can someone help me about it please? Screenshot: http://i55.tinypic.com/2vw6adt.png - I know that It's somehow related to browserd (It generates those messaging UI's) but I don't know how to make it work. |
| 19:11.31 | MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, sorry about what? anyways, wassup :P |
| 19:12.09 | *** join/#maemo JakDaRippa (~JakDaRipp@71-223-195-29.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 19:12.34 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@196.221.58.231) |
| 19:13.31 | jacktheripper | hello, my LED in the corner doesn't light up anymore (even after removing the battery). Was setting it to 'heartbeat' as long as the n900 was on a bad idea ? |
| 19:14.51 | nidO | did you mess with the led's config manually? |
| 19:15.07 | jacktheripper | yeah. But it worked after that. It stopped working without any change |
| 19:15.18 | jacktheripper | or after a theme change. |
| 19:16.42 | sivang | timeless: taking pictures reminded :) |
| 19:18.21 | corecode | oh heh 1.3 |
| 19:18.25 | corecode | when did that come out |
| 19:18.35 | nidO | couple of weeks ago |
| 19:18.39 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@110.164.149.56) |
| 19:19.16 | *** join/#maemo lardman_ (~lardman@78.145.240.255) |
| 19:19.44 | sivang | timeless: anything interesting regarding the talk? I don't have to go overthe whole backlog from the morning, sorry was in a work event so was not online. |
| 19:20.05 | sivang | timeless: I notedthat MSDN docs are good, even compared to Qt ones. |
| 19:20.05 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 19:20.24 | sivang | goes back to some previous commitments. |
| 19:20.29 | sivang | bbl |
| 19:21.47 | javispedro | sivang: btw, I just note that I missed the irc logs link in my message |
| 19:21.54 | javispedro | sivang: but I'm sure you can look it up |
| 19:22.15 | *** join/#maemo fcrochik (~communi@174.97.248.2) |
| 19:22.20 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@88.30.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 19:22.47 | jacktheripper | join #linux |
| 19:22.48 | sivang | javispedro: you sent a mesage? |
| 19:22.56 | jacktheripper | sorry for that xD |
| 19:22.57 | javispedro | sivang: to the ml, long ago. |
| 19:22.59 | sivang | sorry, I was away al the day |
| 19:23.11 | sivang | javispedro: oh, that's okay- you pasted there the transcript for the chat. |
| 19:23.26 | sivang | javispedro: which is aready in a specia google notes for myself to be compiled into my part of the slides |
| 19:23.31 | sivang | :) |
| 19:23.40 | javispedro | sivang: not entirely, though :) |
| 19:23.46 | *** join/#maemo mr_chris (~mr_chris@nsc69.38.94-146.newsouth.net) |
| 19:24.01 | sivang | javispedro: ah, okay - so if you can get the link, that\d be grea.t |
| 19:24.09 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@AMontpellier-554-1-48-132.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:24.14 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 19:24.22 | sivang | notes he needs a new laptop. but not an MBP |
| 19:24.30 | sivang | re: typing mistakes |
| 19:24.38 | mr_chris | Is this the right place for help with things Maemo related or is this just a general discussion area? |
| 19:24.47 | sivang | mr_chris: it is, just ask |
| 19:24.50 | crashanddie | MohammadAG: ping |
| 19:25.18 | MohammadAG | pong |
| 19:25.22 | chem|st | is there anything to tell to reread configs from if-pre-up and if-post-down? |
| 19:25.50 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:26.10 | sivang | chem|st: up and down the interface perhaps? |
| 19:26.16 | sivang | ifup/ifdown |
| 19:26.20 | chem|st | sivang: well did that... |
| 19:26.24 | mr_chris | Running gpxview on an n810. I'm trying to figure out how to purge its local database. Uninstalling doesn't do it. I've looked through the entire filesystem with find as root for anything gpx or gpxview related and still can't see to find it. |
| 19:26.51 | sivang | mr_chris: sorry for being obvious, you tred sudo aptget remove --purge? |
| 19:27.04 | crashanddie | mr_chris: .gpxview? |
| 19:27.22 | sivang | mr_chris: but if it's tuf is under home/$user/. dot dir then it don't get purged through the paackage |
| 19:28.42 | chem|st | MohammadAG: may I have a working link to your KR.sh? |
| 19:28.53 | mr_chris | sivang: Yes. I also tried dpkg --purge |
| 19:29.03 | mr_chris | crashanddie: That's the first thing I looked for. |
| 19:29.15 | mr_chris | sivang: You're right. Not there and therefore can't be purged. |
| 19:29.17 | MohammadAG | chem|st, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/KR.sh |
| 19:29.23 | chem|st | ty |
| 19:29.43 | javispedro | sivang: from http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-27.log.html#t2010-10-27T18:12:26 onwards |
| 19:29.45 | crashanddie | mr_chris: strace it, see which files it opens |
| 19:30.10 | javispedro | sivang: also http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-28.log.html#t2010-10-28T01:10:15 |
| 19:30.16 | mr_chris | crashanddie: I'll give that a try. Thanks. |
| 19:30.42 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@adsl-89-217-40-98.adslplus.ch) |
| 19:31.23 | sivang | mr_chris: not in the . dot dir of the user? |
| 19:31.35 | mr_chris | sivang: It is not. |
| 19:31.55 | ieatlint | does anyone else think it's a bad sign when an intro to qt on symbian "hello world" talk is scheduled to be 80min long :( |
| 19:32.06 | sivang | mr_chris: strace it, like crashanddie said |
| 19:32.12 | mr_chris | Learning how to use strace. This should come in handy later. |
| 19:32.18 | sivang | or dtrace it for open files or something |
| 19:32.26 | sivang | mr_chris: it is very much |
| 19:33.19 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-238-162.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 19:33.28 | jacekowski | dtrace? |
| 19:33.33 | jacekowski | there is no dtrace for linux |
| 19:33.42 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-125-162.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 19:33.46 | sivang | isn't there on centos? |
| 19:33.49 | sivang | hmm |
| 19:33.51 | sivang | is confused |
| 19:33.58 | jacekowski | that's barely working something behaving like dtrace |
| 19:34.00 | jacekowski | not direct port |
| 19:34.20 | sivang | ah okay, mascurading is the dtrace binary? |
| 19:34.51 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@rrcs-184-74-186-58.nyc.biz.rr.com) |
| 19:34.54 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 19:35.05 | johnsq | Hi |
| 19:35.25 | jacekowski | well, in principle it's supposed to be as compatible with true dtrace as possible |
| 19:35.36 | sivang | that's the systap thingy? |
| 19:35.39 | jacekowski | but it's not direct port |
| 19:35.40 | jacekowski | no |
| 19:35.54 | jacekowski | systemtap is linux dtrace like thing |
| 19:36.19 | sivang | okey |
| 19:36.21 | sivang | noted |
| 19:36.28 | *** join/#maemo kkal (~trash@cpc1-walt3-0-0-cust804.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:36.40 | kkal | shall there be a new maemo device soon? |
| 19:36.46 | kkal | maemo/meego |
| 19:36.53 | chem|st | kkal: no |
| 19:36.56 | kkal | :( |
| 19:37.05 | jacktheripper | is it possible to run a .desktop file from terminal ? |
| 19:37.13 | kkal | I shall ask again in 1 year |
| 19:37.17 | kkal | farewell |
| 19:37.23 | *** part/#maemo kkal (~trash@cpc1-walt3-0-0-cust804.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:37.25 | *** join/#maemo qhubekela (~qhubekela@41.211.32.82) |
| 19:37.28 | chem|st | lol |
| 19:37.33 | jacktheripper | XD |
| 19:37.53 | chem|st | jacktheripper: why not run the command itself? |
| 19:38.33 | jacekowski | jacktheripper: nope |
| 19:38.33 | jacktheripper | chem|st, it has this -> "StartupWMClass" in the desktop file, which makes it segfault when run from terminal. |
| 19:38.43 | jacktheripper | or so I understand |
| 19:38.52 | jacktheripper | it's HealthCheck. |
| 19:39.15 | jacekowski | jacktheripper: i suppose it would be possible to use binformat misc to have a nice transparent parser for them |
| 19:39.45 | sivang | javispedro: thanks |
| 19:39.45 | *** join/#maemo BluesLee (~held@ip-109-90-72-54.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 19:39.58 | BluesLee | DocScrutinizer: ping |
| 19:40.27 | jacktheripper | jacekowski, sorry, don't get you. |
| 19:40.34 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@89.240.129.156) |
| 19:41.39 | jacekowski | jacktheripper: simple answer, no |
| 19:42.18 | jacktheripper | heh, thanks then. I'll find a way to imitate what that setting does. |
| 19:42.35 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@starfury.spearlink.com) |
| 19:43.24 | jacekowski | jacktheripper: complicated, yes but you would have to create parser and tell kernel to use it when required |
| 19:44.27 | *** join/#maemo mfabiop (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 19:44.29 | jacktheripper | what does clicking a shortcut trigger then ? there must already be a ready parser. |
| 19:45.08 | jacekowski | because your gui has a parser and understands this kind of files |
| 19:45.13 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@32.97.110.65) |
| 19:45.14 | DocScrutinizer | BluesLee: pong |
| 19:45.29 | jacekowski | but that parser is a part of your GUI/DE/whatever |
| 19:45.48 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 19:45.51 | jacekowski | not usable by kernel |
| 19:46.20 | *** join/#maemo mfabiop_ (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 19:47.02 | mr_chris | I think I figured it out. |
| 19:47.04 | mr_chris | Memory. |
| 19:47.49 | mr_chris | I think it temporarily stores its local settings in RAM. When I remove and readd the application it still tries to find previously imported caches. When I reset the tablet they are all cleared. |
| 19:48.29 | DocScrutinizer | jacktheripper: you tried http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-launch-application ? |
| 19:48.38 | trumee | is there any way to check if i am on gprs0 or wifi using commandline? |
| 19:48.51 | trumee | i want to use that info in a shell script |
| 19:49.10 | jacktheripper | DocScrutinizer, great! thanks. |
| 19:49.18 | crashanddie | mr_chris: wait, what? |
| 19:49.30 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (~lardman@78.145.240.255) |
| 19:49.35 | crashanddie | trumee: parse ifconfig |
| 19:49.48 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i don't think it's what he needs |
| 19:49.57 | crashanddie | trumee: or talk to ICD2 |
| 19:50.00 | BluesLee | DocScrutinizer: first of all, thank you and the others for your efforts on usb host |
| 19:50.01 | BluesLee | DocScrutinizer: someone on tmo asked if the n8 nokia usb otg cable will work with the n900, i found no answer in the thread |
| 19:50.13 | jacekowski | BluesLee: yes and no |
| 19:50.26 | luke-jr | ip route get 4.2.2.2 |
| 19:50.31 | DocScrutinizer | BluesLee: nope it won't |
| 19:50.38 | BugBlue | trumee: route -n |
| 19:50.46 | BluesLee | :-) |
| 19:50.50 | luke-jr | why all the obsolete cmds? |
| 19:50.52 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: isn't that normal microusb to A female? |
| 19:51.06 | DocScrutinizer | it's micro-B |
| 19:51.13 | BugBlue | becauze n900 maemo haz not installed that iproute2-utilz |
| 19:51.14 | trumee | crashanddie: wc -l `ifconfig |grep wlan0` gives warning because of spaces |
| 19:51.18 | DocScrutinizer | OTG adapter has micro-A plug |
| 19:51.23 | luke-jr | /sbin/ip route get 4.2.2.2 | perl -nle 'm/dev (\w+)/&&print $1' |
| 19:51.25 | luke-jr | BugBlue: :O |
| 19:52.14 | Noobmonk3y | lcuk: read your tweets ;) |
| 19:52.20 | DocScrutinizer | BluesLee: Nokia switched N900 receptacle from micro-AB (like on N8x0) to micro-B when they decided N900 won't support OTG |
| 19:52.27 | crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: you all good Qt side now? |
| 19:52.29 | mr_chris | crashanddie: As weird as it sounds that seems to be the case. I'm coming up with a way to reproduce the results. |
| 19:52.30 | trumee | luke-jr: yeah, that would work for me. thanks. |
| 19:52.56 | trumee | luke-jr: however, if the 4.2.2.2 ip address is not reachable, will that still work? |
| 19:53.10 | DocScrutinizer | BluesLee: you *might* make it fit, if you care and dare. Just file off the surplus metal of the rim |
| 19:53.18 | DocScrutinizer | onb adapter |
| 19:53.26 | luke-jr | trumee: depends on if it's locally unreachable, or if it'd be an outside routing issue |
| 19:53.26 | jacktheripper | DocScrutinizer, actually, it wasn't exactly what I need. I need to investigate the output of an application that can only be launched from its .desktop. The dbus message doesn't show me the output. |
| 19:53.38 | luke-jr | trumee: that is, it will fail if the local kernel says "I don't have a route" |
| 19:53.46 | luke-jr | but work if the local kernel would xmit it |
| 19:53.52 | trumee | luke-jr: ah. i see. |
| 19:54.05 | DocScrutinizer | jacktheripper: there's no app that "can only be launched from its .desktop" |
| 19:54.35 | jacktheripper | DocScrutinizer, it has this parameter it its desktop file -> "StartupWMClass" |
| 19:54.53 | DocScrutinizer | jacktheripper: you might want to make sure you're the right user, and maybe also use run-standalone.sh |
| 19:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, no idea about that one |
| 19:55.25 | javispedro | jacktheripper: ignore it |
| 19:55.36 | mr_chris | The only thing that gpxview seems to leave behind is /var/lib/gconf/apps/gpxview. I installed gpxview, ran it and imported some geocaches. I then uninstalled it and removed /var/lib/gconf/apps/gpxview. After that I reinstalled it, opened it and saw the cache list still there. |
| 19:55.40 | mr_chris | I rebooted the tablet and they were gone. |
| 19:55.44 | javispedro | jacktheripper: concentrace on Exec= line |
| 19:55.52 | javispedro | oh, concentrace, nice word. |
| 19:55.59 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 19:56.06 | sivang | mr_chris: some process loked them |
| 19:56.14 | jacktheripper | I do what it does, but the app segfaults mid way. |
| 19:56.34 | trumee | luke-jr: my N900 sip problem sucks very much less now. |
| 19:56.36 | sivang | mr_chris: in some unices, a file is not deleted even after you've deleted it until all references to it are gone |
| 19:56.43 | DocScrutinizer | check user and run-standalone.sh |
| 19:56.46 | jacktheripper | it's HealthCheck btw |
| 19:56.46 | luke-jr | trumee: cool. how? |
| 19:56.48 | DocScrutinizer | aka environment |
| 19:56.50 | mr_chris | sivang: I see. |
| 19:56.57 | mr_chris | Thanks everyone. |
| 19:57.09 | DocScrutinizer | jacktheripper: so ~lart Noobmonk3y |
| 19:57.09 | trumee | luke-jr: turned out running a 32 bit OS on a 64bit cpu is not a good idea. |
| 19:57.10 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 19:57.19 | luke-jr | trumee: O.o? |
| 19:57.26 | jacktheripper | hahaha |
| 19:57.49 | trumee | luke-jr: seems there are timing issues because of that. all sip clients can deal with it but it breaks N900 |
| 19:57.55 | jacktheripper | run-standalone works! no need to ~lart anyone :D |
| 19:58.14 | DocScrutinizer | jacktheripper: see javispedro ^^^ - I'm not aware of anything that makes an app "run from .desktop only" |
| 19:58.38 | trumee | luke-jr: i now have a gentoo amd64 running and it behaves much better now. Also, Olivier Crete gave me some gstreamer binaries which have helped. |
| 19:58.40 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: well. there are a few hidden things, but are uncommon. |
| 19:59.00 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: for ex. you could put a fake Exec= in .desktop knowing that the launcher will use d-bus activation. |
| 19:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 19:59.25 | DocScrutinizer | or just check PPID in your app |
| 19:59.33 | sivang | goes to play with nodeload |
| 19:59.43 | sivang | javispedro: thanks again, btw there are more interesting points in the chat logs. |
| 19:59.44 | javispedro | also, d-bus puts a few extra env vars |
| 20:00.00 | javispedro | sivang: :) good luck! |
| 20:00.04 | DocScrutinizer | that's what run-standalone is for afaik |
| 20:00.29 | DocScrutinizer | create proper env |
| 20:00.33 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: no, some more vars (for ex. the service name that caused your binary to be exec'd) |
| 20:01.27 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, yes. All this are "flags" but no prerequisites for using any special function |
| 20:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | aiui |
| 20:01.36 | sivang | javispedro: thanks, hope it'll go well, you said you might be in the audience right? |
| 20:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | you could test for the flags in your app |
| 20:01.48 | javispedro | sivang: yep |
| 20:02.10 | sivang | great, now really going back to finish my stress testing with nodeload commitments. |
| 20:02.14 | sivang | cheer all, laters. |
| 20:02.16 | javispedro | sivang: don't make speak very much though, my pronunciation sucks :) |
| 20:02.22 | javispedro | *me |
| 20:02.23 | BluesLee | DocScrutinizer: i will get me a female2female adapter first |
| 20:02.28 | sivang | javispedro: me too, am not a native speaker :) |
| 20:02.32 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 20:02.34 | DocScrutinizer | BluesLee: sure bet |
| 20:02.44 | sivang | BluesLee: females? |
| 20:02.55 | sivang | did not just say that. |
| 20:02.57 | BluesLee | sivang: yes, two of them |
| 20:03.01 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: dykes |
| 20:03.14 | sivang | refrains from respondingdue to PG13 |
| 20:03.20 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@dhcp-077-248-153-097.chello.nl) |
| 20:03.36 | sivang | I should find a girl friend sometime soon, this is the sign :-) |
| 20:03.52 | sivang | anyway, nodejs is calling |
| 20:03.56 | javispedro | cya |
| 20:04.13 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:04.13 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: another word for this is "gender changer" :-P |
| 20:04.20 | sivang | LOL |
| 20:04.22 | sivang | heh |
| 20:04.31 | sivang | -> out |
| 20:04.36 | crashanddie | MohammadAG: knows a lot about gender changers |
| 20:05.02 | javispedro | oh |
| 20:05.04 | crashanddie | s/:// |
| 20:05.26 | javispedro | so the FreeRunner also had a lis302dl |
| 20:05.36 | javispedro | why didn't Nokia reuse the existing driver then? :) |
| 20:05.44 | *** join/#maemo achipa1 (~attila@a91-155-178-252.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:05.54 | DocScrutinizer | while we're at it: how would I teach xchat to paste last nick on pressing ""tab"" on an empty input line? |
| 20:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | s/last/least recently used |
| 20:06.33 | MohammadAG | crashanddie, http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2646, and fu :P |
| 20:06.35 | crashanddie | least recently used? |
| 20:06.43 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: no F'ng clue |
| 20:07.03 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'm not convinced our driver was better than Nokia's |
| 20:07.09 | javispedro | ah. |
| 20:07.46 | andax | good question which i ask myself too, DocScrutinizer, and how to "emulate" Function keys :) |
| 20:07.48 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: now I typed >>cra<tab>now I...<< |
| 20:08.12 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: and now I typed >><tab>and now...<< |
| 20:08.21 | crashanddie | heh |
| 20:08.27 | crashanddie | macIrssi does it |
| 20:08.29 | crashanddie | buy a mac :P |
| 20:08.50 | *** join/#maemo asj_ (~asj@124-171-192-118.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 20:09.06 | andax | DocScrutinizer: maybe its easier with irssi than with xchat |
| 20:09.26 | luke-jr | ordered 200 lbs of baby formula online |
| 20:09.36 | *** join/#maemo rblank (~rblank@83.219.114.94) |
| 20:09.36 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not going to switch to irssi for that feature |
| 20:09.46 | *** join/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@ip151.otanner14.opintanner.fi) |
| 20:09.54 | Noobmonk3y | 19:57 <DocScrutinizer> jacktheripper: so ~lart Noobmonk3y - did i miss something? |
| 20:09.55 | DocScrutinizer | WTF is "baby formula" |
| 20:09.57 | dRbiG | crashanddie: you don't need to by a mac to have irssi :P |
| 20:10.05 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: are you serious? |
| 20:10.07 | DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: not really |
| 20:10.12 | Noobmonk3y | LOL FAIR ENOUGH :p |
| 20:10.16 | Noobmonk3y | ffs caps |
| 20:10.55 | MohammadAG | ~lart Noobmonk3y |
| 20:10.55 | infobot | nukes Noobmonk3y with a single large nuke |
| 20:11.01 | DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: except of course some nice spanking maybe - if you like that :-D |
| 20:11.06 | javispedro | ascsiiiiiiiiifeeeeeeeeqjffffffffffgvenwf |
| 20:11.12 | javispedro | ... oops. |
| 20:11.19 | RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5685499/were-running-out-of-chocolate |
| 20:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: muhaha |
| 20:11.35 | RST38h | forgetoil and rare earths |
| 20:11.38 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?t=1098 |
| 20:11.45 | Noobmonk3y | lol! |
| 20:11.50 | Noobmonk3y | spanking is good |
| 20:12.13 | mece | crashanddie, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! |
| 20:12.19 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: I'm serious like Mr. Spok |
| 20:12.26 | mece | runs to buy chocolate |
| 20:12.28 | andax | dRbiG: yeah, irssi is in the maemo repos but irssi needs more getting used to, compared to xchat |
| 20:12.32 | crashanddie | mece: what? |
| 20:12.40 | mece | oops |
| 20:12.44 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: ⦠is that yes or no? |
| 20:12.45 | mece | I meant RST38h |
| 20:12.59 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: obviously a "yes" |
| 20:13.11 | dRbiG | andax: 'getting used to' depends very much on where you come from :) |
| 20:13.24 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: it's what babies eat when they don't have boobs |
| 20:14.02 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: though I'm answering on a general basis wrt me always being serious - without any idea what's been your particular question referring to |
| 20:14.13 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: aaah |
| 20:14.51 | luke-jr | and people say *I* grew up secluded⦠|
| 20:15.42 | javispedro | well, it's not a term you'd usually seen on a tech context. |
| 20:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | I grew up in a german speaking environment |
| 20:15.52 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@rrcs-184-74-186-58.nyc.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:15.54 | javispedro | which means that people who learnt english in tech contexts.. |
| 20:16.11 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 20:16.24 | javispedro | (or mislearnt english, as in the case of javispedro) |
| 20:16.45 | andax | dRbiG: i dont know what you mean, or does it relate to restricted translations of irssi manuals? :) |
| 20:17.34 | luke-jr | lol |
| 20:17.42 | luke-jr | so what do they call it in German? |
| 20:17.46 | DocScrutinizer | I always used the english lessons at school to read my "Byte" mag |
| 20:17.54 | dRbiG | andax: i mean that i've been using text based clients for like 13 years - for me i'd need time to actually get used to xchat ;p |
| 20:18.16 | DocScrutinizer | o/ --> Dr.House |
| 20:18.49 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: so what do they call it in German? |
| 20:18.55 | dRbiG | irssi is the client to use, though i still see some memory leaks after few weeks of keeping it running |
| 20:18.55 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net) |
| 20:19.05 | luke-jr | dRbiG: boo irssi |
| 20:19.10 | luke-jr | and anything else GTK-related |
| 20:19.20 | dRbiG | irssi is not grk-related |
| 20:19.26 | luke-jr | it is |
| 20:19.38 | *** join/#maemo lardman_ (~lardman@78.145.240.255) |
| 20:19.46 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@rrcs-184-74-186-58.nyc.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:20.01 | javispedro | luke-jr: at least in spanish one would say something along the lines of "motherly" milk. |
| 20:20.03 | dRbiG | just as much as bash is gtk-related |
| 20:20.17 | luke-jr | dRbiG: no, BASH doesn't have GTK dependencies |
| 20:20.19 | luke-jr | irssi does |
| 20:20.44 | dRbiG | luke-jr: mine doesn't :) |
| 20:20.57 | crashanddie | luke-jr: not really. Irssi was text-only to start with, there are gtk/gnome-enabled forks, but it really doesn't depend on GTK. |
| 20:21.08 | dRbiG | exactly |
| 20:21.09 | MohammadAG | Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0), libncurses5 (>= 5.6+20071006-3), libperl5.10 (>= 5.10.1), libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8k-1), perl (>= 5.10.1-12ubuntu1), perlapi-5.10.1, perl-base (>= 5.8.1) |
| 20:21.27 | javispedro | too new stuff for fremantle. |
| 20:21.30 | luke-jr | even text-only irssi depends on GTK |
| 20:21.39 | luke-jr | see MohammadAG's paste ⺠|
| 20:21.51 | dRbiG | on maemo, right? |
| 20:21.55 | luke-jr | on all OS |
| 20:22.00 | crashanddie | erhm... |
| 20:22.01 | andax | dRbiG: i sometimes used irssi since ~5 years, most time inside screen via ssh connection, so it did run 24/7 :) first irc app i used was mIRC on windoze |
| 20:22.08 | crashanddie | what there depends on GTK? |
| 20:22.14 | crashanddie | luke-jr: nothing there is GTK |
| 20:22.16 | luke-jr | libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0) |
| 20:22.26 | MohammadAG | luke-jr, glib isn't gtk |
| 20:22.26 | crashanddie | that's the glib |
| 20:22.28 | luke-jr | is |
| 20:22.30 | dRbiG | gettext-0.18.1.1 glib-2.24.2 libiconv-1.13.1_1 pcre-8.10 perl-5.10.1_3 pkg-config-0.25_1 python26-2.6.6 |
| 20:22.31 | crashanddie | has nothing to do with gtk |
| 20:22.37 | dRbiG | no gtk, sorry |
| 20:22.40 | dRbiG | no libc either |
| 20:22.52 | dRbiG | ok, glib does for it |
| 20:22.55 | luke-jr | glib is the core of GTK |
| 20:23.03 | crashanddie | no, it's just a C library |
| 20:23.24 | Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: poooooooooooo |
| 20:23.24 | visz | is GTK not done with C then? |
| 20:23.28 | crashanddie | it's like saying that x depends on linux because it uses the libc6 -- they're both GNU, and have a common history, but one isn't the other. |
| 20:23.40 | javispedro | while on this topic |
| 20:23.44 | visz | sorry |
| 20:23.47 | luke-jr | libc6 isn't GNU |
| 20:23.49 | dRbiG | or like saying that bash depends on x 'cause you can run it in xterm |
| 20:24.02 | luke-jr | so Qt Core isn't Qt? |
| 20:24.23 | javispedro | luke-jr: glib is hardly the core of Gtk+ |
| 20:24.25 | *** part/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 20:24.34 | *** join/#maemo th3hate51 (~Chrome@109.66.123.114) |
| 20:24.35 | javispedro | luke-jr: in fact, it is as much the core of Gtk+ as it is the core of Qt Core. |
| 20:24.43 | javispedro | luke-jr: as Qt Core uses glib. |
| 20:24.52 | luke-jr | javispedro: not my Qt Core |
| 20:25.02 | javispedro | luke-jr: I hate you. |
| 20:25.05 | javispedro | ;) |
| 20:25.08 | RST38h | javispedro: ? |
| 20:25.09 | dRbiG | luke-jr: if you said that glib is a part of gnome then yes |
| 20:25.10 | dRbiG | it is |
| 20:25.26 | luke-jr | GTK/GNOME |
| 20:25.28 | luke-jr | same crap |
| 20:25.31 | crashanddie | luke-jr: sometimes you can be really insightful, sometimes you can be a bloody stuck up troll. |
| 20:25.32 | kerio | quite different crap |
| 20:25.42 | kerio | gtk brought us sylpheed |
| 20:25.45 | kerio | which is a kickass mail client |
| 20:25.50 | kerio | gnome brought us evolution |
| 20:25.53 | kerio | which is... yeah |
| 20:25.56 | dRbiG | hehe, if you don't like it don't use it :) |
| 20:26.02 | MohammadAG | while pr1.3 brought us world peace |
| 20:26.07 | javispedro | is actually starting to become a fan of glib, specially the part where it standardizes main loops |
| 20:26.10 | luke-jr | dRbiG: I don't. |
| 20:26.22 | javispedro | which means that a plugin author can usually hook with the glib main loop instead of doing horrible hacks. |
| 20:26.22 | luke-jr | javispedro: Qt Core already did that |
| 20:26.32 | javispedro | luke-jr: but Qt Core >= glib |
| 20:26.36 | javispedro | in fac, |
| 20:26.39 | javispedro | >>>>> |
| 20:26.40 | luke-jr | exactly. |
| 20:26.58 | javispedro | pure glib is still quite small (no gobject, etc.) |
| 20:26.59 | RST38h | javispedro: snap out of it, quick |
| 20:27.04 | javispedro | virtually no startup penalty. |
| 20:27.32 | dRbiG | and no dependencies on any other gnome/gtk stuff |
| 20:27.58 | *** part/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@ip151.otanner14.opintanner.fi) |
| 20:27.58 | luke-jr | has glib masked |
| 20:28.15 | crashanddie | luke-jr: also, libc6 is gnu. |
| 20:28.25 | luke-jr | crashanddie: libc6 is part of the C standard |
| 20:28.28 | luke-jr | AFAIK |
| 20:28.42 | javispedro | RST38h: makes some of my work easier if I can assume that the binary runs a glib mainloop |
| 20:28.44 | crashanddie | no, libc6 is the shortname for libc.so.6.x |
| 20:28.48 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 20:28.58 | crashanddie | which is provided by the GNU C Library |
| 20:29.07 | dRbiG | what a pointless discussion :) |
| 20:29.12 | luke-jr | or some other libc6 implementation |
| 20:29.27 | javispedro | luke-jr: s/6// |
| 20:29.35 | luke-jr | my 1 year old is trying to modify my 1 month old's carseat |
| 20:29.42 | andax | There are poppler libs in maemo repos, so why not poppler utils? o_O |
| 20:30.05 | andax | I need pdftotext from poppler-utils to see oversized pdf files |
| 20:30.23 | crashanddie | andax: most probably because noone didn't need them? |
| 20:30.35 | luke-jr | oversized PDF files are, in my experience, bitmaps :P |
| 20:30.43 | crashanddie | english fail |
| 20:31.14 | luke-jr | NO U |
| 20:31.21 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@static-87-79-75-7.netcologne.de) |
| 20:31.23 | andax | i need them badly, pdftotext is also a quasi dependency of mc which is also provided |
| 20:31.26 | dRbiG | no, it's creative grammar |
| 20:31.54 | crashanddie | luke-jr: yes, i failed english... "noone didn't need them" |
| 20:32.09 | javispedro | creative grammar you say! |
| 20:32.15 | luke-jr | lol |
| 20:32.27 | luke-jr | time for me to change diapers and take kiddos outside |
| 20:32.40 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:32.52 | dRbiG | it is funny to see that there are so many ways to screw a language that is so simple |
| 20:33.32 | javispedro | a human-evolved language is not simple by definition. |
| 20:33.37 | andax | crashanddie: i cant use the preselected pdf thingie, most gui linux pdf viewers have bugs like hell, i always used plain old xpdf instead |
| 20:33.58 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@rrcs-184-74-186-58.nyc.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:34.04 | dRbiG | javispedro: simple as in compared to other human-evolved languages |
| 20:34.05 | *** join/#maemo timeless_webchat (58730824@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.115.8.36) |
| 20:34.08 | andax | crashanddie: and pdftotext is even less ressource hungry than xpdf |
| 20:34.23 | andax | which means its also faster |
| 20:34.24 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer1 (~Cy8aer@static-87-79-75-7.netcologne.de) |
| 20:34.30 | crashanddie | you seem to believe I would be able to help |
| 20:34.56 | andax | not really but its hopeless anyway :) |
| 20:35.00 | crashanddie | but unless someone decides to port the apps |
| 20:35.04 | crashanddie | you're SOL |
| 20:35.42 | luke-jr | andax: Okular works awesome |
| 20:36.04 | luke-jr | crashanddie: most of the apps are simply shell script wrappers around gs :P |
| 20:36.46 | javispedro | btw |
| 20:37.05 | *** join/#maemo karname (~roohollah@84.241.7.24) |
| 20:37.58 | javispedro | hm.. was going to ask a stupid question. |
| 20:38.04 | dRbiG | go on! :) |
| 20:38.14 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@66-118-177-69.static.sagonet.net) |
| 20:38.37 | javispedro | I won't tell the question, but the answer was "the C Preprocessor". |
| 20:39.28 | dRbiG | if one got an answer - is the question still there? |
| 20:40.00 | lolcat | Can I have noip on my phone? |
| 20:40.11 | andax | let me guess... the question would be something like "who compiles that stuff?" |
| 20:40.29 | javispedro | andax: no. |
| 20:40.38 | dRbiG | so many questions, so little time |
| 20:41.54 | javispedro | the question was "assume I'm a propietary software developer. I have some closed source code base here. I want to release it under the GPL, at least, the parts I am able to. I've #ifdef'd out the parts I cannot, and a partially functioning binary builds. Is there a tool that would remove the #ifdef'd out parts before publishing the code?". |
| 20:42.53 | crashanddie | javispedro: only if you don't use includes |
| 20:43.05 | dRbiG | ee, in such case you'd build your prop soft as a loadable libarary |
| 20:43.14 | *** join/#maemo perlite_ (~perlite@111-240-205-159.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 20:43.17 | crashanddie | javispedro: if you use the preprocessor-only switch on GCC, you'll get 250k lines of code in every file |
| 20:43.25 | andax | javispedro: i thought software code is enough confusing as it is but there really exist obfuscator apps |
| 20:44.07 | nidO | lolcat: if you write a client for their service, yes |
| 20:44.16 | javispedro | crashanddie: hm. good point. |
| 20:44.29 | *** join/#maemo citygent (citygent@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-zvzlybotdnnbtkpj) |
| 20:44.42 | MohammadAG | got involved in too much stuff :/ |
| 20:44.43 | crashanddie | javispedro: though, a quick perl script can take care of that |
| 20:45.39 | *** join/#maemo Jaizuke (Jaizuke@CPEe0cb4ea5ee98-CM001ceacc0ba8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:45.59 | Jaizuke | Hey everyone |
| 20:46.03 | javispedro | the hardest part of it being nested ifdefs |
| 20:46.17 | crashanddie | javispedro: I'm not talking about ifdefs |
| 20:46.19 | javispedro | hoped he needn't write yet another parser |
| 20:46.34 | crashanddie | javispedro: just simple ### start opensource |
| 20:46.54 | *** join/#maemo babsher_ (~bionet@b172-25-177-0.nat.washington.edu) |
| 20:47.15 | javispedro | crashanddie: nice idea, thanks |
| 20:48.22 | crashanddie | javispedro: I'm using that technique for my installer script, but the other way around. I have a specific tag in my shell script in which I dump the base64 of my binaries/libraries |
| 20:48.52 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@77.30.246.125) |
| 20:48.54 | lucent | is there much new development in the maemo kernel for N900 target, versus say meego kernel for N900? I'm thinking in terms of development for the wireless (wifi, bluetooth) stack? |
| 20:48.56 | dRbiG | base64, what a waste of space-time |
| 20:49.20 | lucent | also interested, any efforts to re-implement closed source blobs |
| 20:49.22 | crashanddie | though, in the long run, you're probably better off having a specific library that you'd open source completely, and use with your proprietary app |
| 20:49.50 | dRbiG | crashanddie: or other way around |
| 20:49.52 | javispedro | it would be opposite; most of it is open. |
| 20:49.58 | dRbiG | exactly |
| 20:50.00 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (~lardman@78.145.240.255) |
| 20:50.03 | javispedro | so I'd need to fill the executable with suspicious looking hooks. |
| 20:50.13 | javispedro | not good. |
| 20:50.20 | crashanddie | oh, well, whatever :) |
| 20:51.19 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@201.54.232.138) |
| 20:51.44 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 20:52.21 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.58.103.253) |
| 20:52.33 | javispedro | MohammadAG: ah, the "too much work to do" syndrome. |
| 20:52.40 | javispedro | MohammadAG: try not to get burn |
| 20:53.18 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@static-87-79-75-7.netcologne.de) |
| 20:53.20 | MohammadAG | how? I don't have any headphones to listen to shit properly while I'm doing what I'm doing :P |
| 20:53.44 | MohammadAG | and in a shitty country like this, you can't get a BH-505 |
| 20:54.02 | javispedro | who wants that. wired headphones ftw. |
| 20:54.42 | crashanddie | MohammadAG: you want headphones for christmas? |
| 20:54.53 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: We should be able to get you one if you really want it. Post packages aren't that expensive. |
| 20:55.05 | MohammadAG | I'd settle for a bike crashanddie :P |
| 20:55.09 | crashanddie | piss off |
| 20:55.16 | MohammadAG | xD |
| 20:55.17 | crashanddie | that's like a few thousand difference :P |
| 20:55.38 | luke-jr | lol |
| 20:55.50 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, I can buy it off ebay I suppose, but I hate waiting for delivery |
| 20:56.00 | MohammadAG | ironically, I've been looking for one here in IL since june |
| 20:56.04 | luke-jr | you'll wait forever if you don't :p |
| 20:56.05 | X-Fade | That headset is about 50 eur here. |
| 20:56.12 | MohammadAG | my point exactly |
| 20:56.31 | MohammadAG | and 50 bucks on ebay, shipped from hong kong (why is everything from there nowadays?) |
| 20:56.55 | MohammadAG | funny thing is, I went to a Nokia store in JO during summer, and got a weird answer |
| 20:56.56 | X-Fade | Is it genuine or a copy? :) |
| 20:56.58 | andax | luke-jr: can you do speed reading with okular? |
| 20:57.08 | luke-jr | andax: wtf is that |
| 20:57.08 | MohammadAG | "people buy chinese knock offs, why do you want a BH-505" |
| 20:57.19 | MohammadAG | official Nokia store ^ |
| 20:57.29 | javispedro | heh. |
| 20:57.37 | *** join/#maemo klasu__ (~klasu@a91-153-0-105.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:57.46 | andax | luke-jr: i mean holding down the space key and see every page for some milliseconds |
| 20:57.58 | luke-jr | ⦠|
| 20:58.05 | luke-jr | so wasting CPU time for nothing? |
| 20:58.14 | javispedro | luke-jr: do you have a shortcut for the unicode ellipsis character? |
| 20:58.24 | luke-jr | yes, it's called . thrice |
| 20:58.28 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, genuine I suppose, official price is 60 bucks I think |
| 20:58.45 | javispedro | lunch time. cya |
| 20:58.46 | luke-jr | ⺠|
| 20:59.07 | andax | nomis, why? sometimes its nice to overfly a document without reading it completely |
| 20:59.20 | luke-jr | ⦠|
| 20:59.21 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, there's a US forwarding service by the post office here, that's how I got my N900 |
| 20:59.23 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Price doesn't say anything when buying in HK :) |
| 20:59.24 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~dvaske@nat/nokia/x-khashrpdeqalyrzt) |
| 20:59.40 | MohammadAG | annoying thing about them would be paying for customs BEFORE it leaves the US |
| 20:59.59 | MohammadAG | so I had to pay 34% of the $530 when I got my N900 :( |
| 21:00.00 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: They can also sell you their cheap shit for a high price :) |
| 21:00.24 | MohammadAG | actually, before I got it, by a week |
| 21:00.33 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@125.sub-75-210-91.myvzw.com) |
| 21:00.36 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, heh, even trusted sellers? :P |
| 21:00.43 | crashanddie | ⦠|
| 21:00.49 | nomis | andax: xchat's autocompletion is stupid... :-) |
| 21:01.08 | MohammadAG | I'll see about it after the holidays though |
| 21:01.08 | MohammadAG | local holidays that is, not christmas |
| 21:01.08 | crashanddie | Â Â â |
| 21:01.08 | crashanddie | â â |
| 21:01.08 | nomis | relurks |
| 21:01.08 | X-Fade | Yes, HK is always a gamble ;) |
| 21:01.52 | andax | nomi: yes, pardon, it was meant for luke-jr :) |
| 21:02.34 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 21:08.09 | trumee | anybody has Page Up showing history in xterm. I placed a .inputrc but doesnt seem to make any difference |
| 21:09.37 | *** join/#maemo hopbeat (52d3c95c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.211.201.92) |
| 21:09.56 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:12.41 | Noobmonk3y | blames lcuk |
| 21:12.47 | kerio | crashanddie: what |
| 21:12.49 | trumee | nobody? |
| 21:12.55 | kerio | that's not a triforce |
| 21:13.18 | lucent | crashanddie: I think the way forward on N900 wireless is to make upstream work on N900 |
| 21:13.34 | SpeedEvil | What do you mean 'n900 wireless' ? |
| 21:13.34 | trumee | hmm. i am missing a trick here. I do have bash setup but it doesnt pick .inputrc :( |
| 21:13.35 | lucent | then to discuss the firmware bugs, and finially, injection support |
| 21:13.45 | lucent | SpeedEvil: specifically bluetooth and wifi |
| 21:13.49 | lcuk | oi Noobmonk3y ! |
| 21:13.51 | crashanddie | kerio: actually, it is exactly just that |
| 21:13.56 | Noobmonk3y | hehehe |
| 21:14.01 | crashanddie | kerio: may not display correctly depending on your font |
| 21:14.02 | Noobmonk3y | lcuk: up for an april meet? |
| 21:14.11 | SpeedEvil | lucent: you mean for meego? |
| 21:14.19 | kerio | crashanddie: the triforce is full, not empty |
| 21:14.20 | kerio | that's empty |
| 21:14.22 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, i have already booked february :P |
| 21:14.29 | Noobmonk3y | where? |
| 21:14.33 | lucent | SpeedEvil: I haven't looked into meego, actually |
| 21:14.44 | kerio | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:14.46 | kerio | â² |
| 21:14.46 | SpeedEvil | lucent: even if you get all the bluetooth and wifi bits to an upstream kjernel, you will not be able to do everything if you |
| 21:14.48 | kerio | whoops |
| 21:14.49 | lucent | is meego N900 platform support using upstream kernel wireless? |
| 21:14.56 | kerio | well, ganon stole a piece |
| 21:15.02 | lolloo | yes |
| 21:15.05 | SpeedEvil | lucent: have the default software stack |
| 21:15.09 | crashanddie | kerio: doesn't matter :) |
| 21:15.11 | lcuk | kerio, we do not speak klingon |
| 21:15.29 | kerio | that's not klingon |
| 21:15.40 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@sign-4d094957.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:15.40 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 21:15.47 | lucent | SpeedEvil: I'm trying to remedy, well, to just figure out where I want to spend my time to make injection work on N900 wifi |
| 21:15.50 | lcuk | whatever it is, its wasting the ink on my irc printer |
| 21:16.13 | chx | you irc with a printer? that's really hard core |
| 21:16.20 | lucent | SpeedEvil: "somebody" got it working (David/lxp) but is not interested to release the source that they improved |
| 21:16.44 | chx | we were doing that at the univ back in the mid 90s, a line printer was printing logs to catch attackers. |
| 21:16.51 | lcuk | chx, its not a problem normally, but its hard work carrying round enough ribbons to use with my n900 |
| 21:17.04 | lucent | wouldn't the proper way forward be to get upstream backported to N900 and then begin discussion about N900 wifi firmware bug, to get injection support? |
| 21:17.43 | chx | lol |
| 21:17.44 | kerio | i have my IRC engraved in stone |
| 21:17.45 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:17.46 | crashanddie | foo |
| 21:17.57 | chx | btw did anyone try actually printing documents from the N900? |
| 21:18.01 | lucent | just knowing that it is possible, I don't care to pursue that person who got it working if they are not interested. What do we do to be beneficial to the community? |
| 21:18.10 | lcuk | chx someone asked about cups yesterday actually |
| 21:18.17 | lcuk | last i saw/heard was for n8x0 though |
| 21:18.18 | Appiah | if I had a network printer I would try |
| 21:18.28 | lcuk | and possibly from the kde libs |
| 21:18.40 | lcuk | hazy, was a long time ago either way |
| 21:19.30 | chx | it's packaged for fremenatle http://maemo.org/packages/view/cups/ apparently.... |
| 21:19.43 | *** join/#maemo koz4 (~koza_to_n@abyf25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:19.47 | lcuk | \o/ then |
| 21:20.14 | lcuk | so someone with a printer try it :P |
| 21:20.15 | *** join/#maemo lardman_ (~lardman@78.145.240.255) |
| 21:20.18 | lucent | do we know "George" as in http://marc.info/?l=linux-wireless&m=128799300117905&w=2 |
| 21:20.28 | RST38h | laRRRRdman |
| 21:20.30 | RST38h | lcuk |
| 21:20.32 | RST38h | moo,all |
| 21:20.43 | lcuk | \o lardman_ RST38h |
| 21:20.47 | lcuk | moos gently |
| 21:21.06 | RST38h | lardman:btw mbarcode stopped saving barcode photos at some point, only stores the text data now |
| 21:21.18 | RST38h | dunno if it qualifies as a bug or a feature |
| 21:21.26 | crashanddie | â² â² |
| 21:21.28 | crashanddie | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:21.31 | lucent | RST38h: interesting, I remember it stored the photos |
| 21:21.39 | crashanddie | kerio: happy nao? |
| 21:21.45 | lucent | also know that it won't work if the barcode is red on black background ;) |
| 21:21.46 | kerio | ^v^ |
| 21:22.00 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, yes btw |
| 21:22.05 | lucent | movie posters have the QR-codes embedded in fancy colours where I work at a movie theater |
| 21:22.23 | Noobmonk3y | lol |
| 21:22.26 | lucent | one day I'm saying oh sure my N900 can decode that, but no dice |
| 21:22.37 | kerio | lucent: huh? |
| 21:22.38 | Noobmonk3y | yes to where? |
| 21:22.39 | MohammadAG | lcuk, unable to find package cups |
| 21:22.43 | kerio | mbarcode |
| 21:22.49 | MohammadAG | or sth |
| 21:23.03 | kerio | if it doesn't work... |
| 21:23.26 | kerio | take a picture, then play with gimp until you have black-on-white |
| 21:23.26 | lcuk | MohammadAG, Fremantle Extras-devel free armel cups 1.3.8-maemo3 http://maemo.org/packages/view/cups/ |
| 21:23.28 | lcuk | was specified |
| 21:23.30 | lcuk | not tried |
| 21:23.53 | lucent | kerio: it was N900 vs. iPhone something-or-other fodder at work, bragging rights who had the most amazing phone. I wanted nothing to do with it but the Apple user cornered me |
| 21:23.54 | lcuk | kerio, not quite getting the concept of mobile barcode reading |
| 21:24.08 | kerio | lcuk: i have gimp on my phone |
| 21:24.11 | kerio | that's mobile! |
| 21:24.34 | lcuk | fair point. |
| 21:24.38 | lcuk | retracts statement |
| 21:24.47 | lcuk | now, if you can actually use it happily it will be better |
| 21:24.47 | lucent | also that gimp does not work in the scenario versus iPhone user |
| 21:24.52 | kerio | why? |
| 21:24.57 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 21:24.59 | MohammadAG | lcuk, saw it, but apt doesn't find it, which is weird |
| 21:25.02 | kerio | that iPhone user has no way to edit photos on the go |
| 21:25.05 | lcuk | MohammadAG, curious |
| 21:25.07 | RST38h | lcuk: Actually, there are quite a few use scenarios |
| 21:25.14 | lcuk | i know RST38h |
| 21:25.28 | lcuk | likes to take pictures of many things with barcodes/info on them |
| 21:25.29 | lucent | kerio: "because there is no reason to edit photos on the go, I have my iMac to edit photos, silly" or something |
| 21:25.33 | lucent | you know what I'm talking about |
| 21:25.38 | lcuk | all sorts of tickets and receipts and maps and things |
| 21:25.43 | lucent | there's just no point to a conversation like that |
| 21:25.44 | MohammadAG | my printer is connected to my external IP |
| 21:25.48 | lcuk | i have this whole travellog :) |
| 21:25.56 | kerio | "there is no reason to use a barcode scanner to reach a website that PRINTED RIGHT BELOW THE DAMN POSTER" |
| 21:25.58 | MohammadAG | i can print otg |
| 21:25.59 | kerio | *that's |
| 21:26.03 | RST38h | Mohammad: You mean, we can print crap to it? =) |
| 21:26.09 | crashanddie | the whole n900 vs iphone, and "iphone users are idiots" is getting old very quick, lucent |
| 21:26.09 | MohammadAG | RST38h, yes |
| 21:26.16 | RST38h | omg |
| 21:26.19 | MohammadAG | hmm, shit |
| 21:26.32 | *** join/#maemo WakiMiko (~WakiMiko@mnch-4d04c51d.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:26.38 | kerio | lucent: "you wouldn't need a barcode scanner if you could type the address quickly with a real keyboard" |
| 21:26.44 | lcuk | does iphone have video out capabilities yet? |
| 21:26.46 | lucent | kerio: ha, I like that one |
| 21:26.51 | lcuk | might get one if so |
| 21:26.58 | kerio | lcuk: since... the first one? |
| 21:27.04 | lcuk | rly? |
| 21:27.06 | kerio | for videos, at least |
| 21:27.16 | lcuk | when I was using my n900 to give presentations from |
| 21:27.26 | lcuk | the owners of lesser devices were glaring |
| 21:27.39 | *** part/#maemo arantala (~opera@cs181057221.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:27.47 | kerio | oh, keynote can definetely use the tv-out nowadays |
| 21:27.51 | kerio | at least with an ipad |
| 21:27.54 | trumee | is it possible to stop N900 offering the sdcard when connecting in mass storage mode? |
| 21:28.04 | lucent | crashanddie: I try not to get involved, honest. The guys at work keep getting iPhones and thinking they're so new and interesting, and want to tell me about it. I'm always saying, hey, I had that hardware feature for months now but the software doesn't quite work right, good for you that you have a jailbroken iPhone or whatever |
| 21:28.08 | lcuk | kerio, ipad != mobile phone |
| 21:28.10 | kerio | trumee: ass rage mode is quite crap |
| 21:28.29 | trumee | kerio: ? |
| 21:28.38 | lucent | trumee: not that I know of, but you could pop open the back cover and it will have the magnetic sensor to unmount the card |
| 21:28.56 | lucent | trumee: should prevent it from getting exported |
| 21:28.57 | trumee | lucent: yes, i dont want to take out the sdcard |
| 21:29.05 | lucent | no, just pop open the back cover |
| 21:29.07 | nidO | he didnt say take out the card |
| 21:29.10 | lucent | even that is kind of annoying everytime |
| 21:29.11 | nidO | just take the cover off |
| 21:29.12 | lcuk | lucent, they are interesting |
| 21:29.14 | nidO | card = unmounted |
| 21:29.19 | lcuk | i cant wait to run meego on iphone hardware |
| 21:29.22 | nidO | or just manually unmount the card, i guess |
| 21:29.36 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, nevermind, broken lists |
| 21:29.39 | trumee | i have an otterbox and it is pain even to get to the back cover |
| 21:29.57 | lucent | lcuk: Would that ever happen? I don't know, rockbox team had such difficulty to run on new iPod / iPhone hardware |
| 21:29.58 | kerio | otters ^_^ |
| 21:30.08 | lcuk | lucent, it will happen |
| 21:30.17 | kerio | lcuk: the iphone hw sucks for meego |
| 21:30.24 | lcuk | easier if we can get rid of the 3d requirement for meego |
| 21:30.25 | lcuk | but meh |
| 21:30.29 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@static-87-79-75-7.netcologne.de) |
| 21:30.43 | lcuk | wonders whether iphone lcd driver supports yuv actually |
| 21:31.05 | lcuk | kerio, why do you think it sucks? |
| 21:31.29 | kerio | no hardware keyboard, no precise touchscreen |
| 21:31.33 | lucent | lcuk: I do not see it happening within the product lifetime of an Apple product |
| 21:32.00 | lucent | also the multi-touch patents are encumbering to get more precise user control over the interface |
| 21:32.10 | lcuk | lucent, time/motivation/monkeys/keyboards/shakespear etc - once meego portability gets into the swing |
| 21:32.20 | lucent | let's hope so! |
| 21:32.22 | lcuk | theres practically no hardware on the planet that wont be running it |
| 21:32.45 | lucent | anyhow I'm hopeful for maemo to get injection support |
| 21:32.59 | lucent | I meant for N900 to have injection support, maemo or meego, whichever |
| 21:33.15 | lcuk | lucent, is this requiring a kernel module modification? |
| 21:33.34 | lcuk | similar in principle to the other stuff like hostmode ? |
| 21:33.45 | lcuk | is ignorant of tech details of linux network drivers |
| 21:34.59 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, lucent injection works, the packages are under the gpl with no source |
| 21:35.16 | lcuk | ahhh yuck |
| 21:35.19 | MohammadAG51 | it's a kernel mod, yes, cracked two of my APs |
| 21:35.28 | MohammadAG51 | though they were WEPs |
| 21:35.37 | lucent | the source is the problem for me though |
| 21:35.39 | lcuk | when the source emerges would it sit in similar manner to the hen stuff you guys are playing with? |
| 21:35.47 | MohammadAG51 | oh and a friend's AP, he knew about it of course |
| 21:35.52 | lucent | I do my work and submit to upstream, if you don't send upstream it's like it wasn't even done at all :( |
| 21:36.00 | MohammadAG51 | my school had WEP too, so I couldn't miss out :P |
| 21:36.02 | lcuk | lucent, indeed |
| 21:36.09 | lcuk | that is the meego way also |
| 21:36.20 | lucent | the meego way is to work with upstream, or to ignore them? |
| 21:36.34 | MohammadAG51 | work with them |
| 21:36.39 | lucent | want to know where I should focus my efforts anyways, ah okay |
| 21:36.49 | lcuk | http://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines |
| 21:36.52 | lcuk | upstream |
| 21:37.15 | MohammadAG51 | so, how do i set up cups again? :P |
| 21:37.30 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: wlan source on h-e-n?? |
| 21:37.41 | DocScrutinizer | can't see that |
| 21:38.14 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, no i was asking if its the same principle |
| 21:38.32 | lcuk | and could be organised in similar manner / put together as a patch quilt |
| 21:38.59 | DocScrutinizer | aiui wlan driver is a module, not built to the kernel |
| 21:39.06 | MohammadAG51 | wants to work on the VU kb lights again |
| 21:39.14 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, indeed |
| 21:39.17 | lcuk | gives MohammadAG51 a torch |
| 21:39.28 | lcuk | right DocScrutinizer - that was the distinction I was trying to work out |
| 21:39.28 | DocScrutinizer | so you could just create that module for whatever target kernel |
| 21:39.46 | MohammadAG51 | but if you don't have the source? :) |
| 21:40.10 | lcuk | sure MohammadAG51 |
| 21:43.12 | timeless_webchat | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327672/Wheel-Fortune-Contestant-Caitlin-Burke-solves-puzzle-1-letter.html?ito=feeds-newsxml |
| 21:43.49 | lcuk | timeless_webchat, :D |
| 21:44.21 | timeless_webchat | lcuk: it's really amazing |
| 21:44.30 | timeless_webchat | although i think the audio-video sync in the flash thing is broken |
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| 21:48.52 | lcuk | timeless_webchat, she did have a good feeling :) |
| 21:49.09 | timeless_webchat | indeed! |
| 21:49.53 | nox- | moin |
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| 21:53.09 | sp3000 | timeless_webchat: so ...perl: while ($x) { ...; next if (!$x); } |
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| 21:53.50 | timeless_webchat | oh wow |
| 21:53.55 | sp3000 | that seems somehow nonsensical :) |
| 21:54.11 | timeless_webchat | is watching the smallville episode where clark is given a red cape to go w/ his blue shirt |
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| 21:54.27 | timeless_webchat | sp3000: where's that from! |
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| 21:55.21 | sp3000 | from russia with love |
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| 22:00.05 | crashanddie | "Sri Lanka launches local pornstar manhunt: Sri Lankan newspapers on Tuesday published pictures of mainly women police said had acted in locally produced pornographic films, part of a court-ordered crackdown and the latest sign of growing social conservatism." |
| 22:00.11 | crashanddie | Wouldn't that be a womanhunt? |
| 22:02.20 | javispedro | crashanddie: eternal debate |
| 22:04.33 | *** join/#maemo pronto (~moo@pool-74-107-127-85.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:05.16 | kerio | crashanddie: and more to the point... name? |
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| 22:13.05 | DocScrutinizer | IT LIVES! |
| 22:13.25 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~nobody@cpc5-cmbg14-0-0-cust982.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 22:13.29 | javispedro | IT DOES! |
| 22:13.34 | DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=868463#post868463 |
| 22:13.36 | javispedro | ... what lives? |
| 22:14.00 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I've already seen it mentioned in some parts |
| 22:14.15 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: a few tweets more and you will experience the pm storm |
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| 22:39.51 | javispedro | hah |
| 22:40.14 | javispedro | so, Pre was similar to N900, and Pre2 is probably going to be similar to N9.. |
| 22:40.39 | javispedro | omap3630, lsm303dlh magnetomer.. |
| 22:41.24 | SpeedEvil | 303! |
| 22:41.30 | SpeedEvil | neat |
| 22:41.56 | SpeedEvil | I have that on a wishlist to go into the n900 |
| 22:43.39 | tobis87 | The omap-aes driver has been fixed and hostmode is coming slowly but surely. What is next, hardware accelerated Pulseaudio and RE injection driver? |
| 22:44.09 | javispedro | it comes quiet depreciation and slow death as the next device sinks in. |
| 22:44.35 | tobis87 | Depends on how many apps there will be for meego. |
| 22:44.42 | javispedro | pfft. |
| 22:44.51 | tobis87 | and the security architecture. |
| 22:45.37 | GeneralAntilles | Pre2 would be cool if it didn't have such a terrible screen. |
| 22:46.02 | javispedro | agrees with GAN |
| 22:46.08 | *** join/#maemo dirtyrice88 (~dirtyrice@75.76.93.77) |
| 22:46.15 | GeneralAntilles | And weren't effectively portrait-only. |
| 22:46.18 | GeneralAntilles | That sucks. |
| 22:46.25 | GeneralAntilles | Hooray, new lens is here! |
| 22:46.26 | GeneralAntilles | runs away. |
| 22:47.47 | SpeedEvil | congratulates GeneralAntilles on his delivery from Arissa. |
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| 22:50.08 | tripzero | n900 cannot be repaired :( |
| 22:50.19 | tripzero | but i think they are going to replace it for free! |
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| 22:55.16 | ds3 | anyone know of a low profile micro USB connector? |
| 22:55.26 | ioan | hi. is it possible to use python 2.6 or later on n900? |
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| 22:59.03 | SpeedEvil | ds3: I was going to make some, never got around to it though |
| 22:59.34 | sjk | I wish that someone will make a zsh package for Maemo :) |
| 23:00.06 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-190-123.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 23:00.32 | Termana | good morning |
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| 23:01.25 | *** join/#maemo Rhoruns (~Rhoruns@ip98-165-94-55.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:02.42 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: CoD BO gets a solid 90% approval rate in reviews, take away advertisement bias, and it's probably closer to 75, 80% |
| 23:02.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | yuck, 'good morning' at 00:00:31 |
| 23:03.02 | alterego | indeed |
| 23:03.18 | crashanddie | actually, it's only like 9AM for Termana |
| 23:03.46 | crashanddie | plus, the whole "good morning when joining, good evening when leaving" IRC internationalisation thingy |
| 23:03.58 | alterego | Heh |
| 23:04.01 | javispedro | which works |
| 23:04.02 | Termana | yeah, 9:30 for me :p Plus I was about to type what crashanddie just said :p |
| 23:04.04 | alterego | 11pm here |
| 23:04.10 | Termana | crashanddie, you reading my mind or something? |
| 23:04.13 | javispedro | also, depending on how broken your life is 00:00 might be "good morning" :) |
| 23:04.14 | Termana | are you* |
| 23:04.16 | alterego | I should probably hit the hay |
| 23:04.33 | crashanddie | Termana: well, I used to live in Oz for a while, had that thing on auto-type. |
| 23:05.00 | Termana | crashanddie, you don't have the link for that page someone showed with it on it do you? |
| 23:05.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ugt |
| 23:05.04 | infobot | methinks ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 23:05.12 | Termana | nevermind |
| 23:05.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | was what you meant to say |
| 23:05.26 | crashanddie | Mind reading. #maemo has it. |
| 23:06.19 | crashanddie | I've been having a couple of weeks with 3AM-6AM nights, I'm going to hit the sack early for once |
| 23:06.22 | crashanddie | later all |
| 23:06.31 | Termana | cya crashanddie |
| 23:07.17 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
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| 23:09.49 | javispedro | Apaches Declare War On The Oracle at Delphi Over Java |
| 23:10.05 | javispedro | ah, slashdot still knows how to make me laugh. |
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| 23:19.54 | *** part/#maemo ioan (~man@74-93-190-107-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
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| 23:21.57 | internetishard | the DST switch left all of my calendar entries behind! |
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| 23:23.12 | internetishard | Update automatically, is, of course, checked in the clock app... Any ideas? |
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| 23:26.23 | olga | does anyone have any idea if it is possible to connect to 802.1x EAP w/ TTLS/PAP on an n800? I've been googling this for the last two hours to no avail... |
| 23:26.43 | jacekowski | MohammadAG51: i blame you |
| 23:26.52 | javispedro | olga: not with the stock software |
| 23:26.55 | jacekowski | MohammadAG51: you sent me fmtx-faker modified fmtxd |
| 23:28.07 | olga | javispedro: is it possible w/ 3rd party tools? |
| 23:28.31 | javispedro | olga: yes; do you know wpa_supplicant? |
| 23:29.23 | olga | javispedro: yep it is a conf script |
| 23:29.29 | javispedro | hardly. |
| 23:29.40 | javispedro | unfortunately, this currently requires a lot of work |
| 23:29.53 | olga | is there a tutorial somewhere? |
| 23:29.54 | javispedro | you need to patch a kernel module, then patch wpa_supplicant. |
| 23:30.28 | javispedro | I wrote http://libicd-wpa.garage.maemo.org/ but it assumes you know how to build Debian packages. |
| 23:31.48 | *** join/#maemo tugrik (~tugrik@war.funkyjesus.org) |
| 23:32.45 | olga | javispedro: ok thank you for the pointers, looks like i have quite a bit of reserch to do |
| 23:32.59 | olga | javispedro: at least i know it can be done :) |
| 23:33.14 | tugrik | evening :) |
| 23:33.23 | javispedro | olga: yes, with the entire set (including libicd-wpa) it works very well, including autoconnecting. |
| 23:33.58 | tugrik | the Internet says the maximum micro SD size the n900 can support is 32gig - I presume this is the case? Can't see any reference to the size in the manual - I presume because 32gig was the biggest when it came out? |
| 23:34.35 | javispedro | there are no microSDHC >= 32GiB |
| 23:34.41 | javispedro | er.. |
| 23:34.44 | javispedro | s/>=/> |
| 23:34.48 | jacekowski | yet |
| 23:34.55 | tugrik | how about microSD? I'm presuming it doesn't support microSDHC? |
| 23:35.03 | javispedro | jacekowski: SDXC =) |
| 23:35.13 | jacekowski | without HC you can't go above 2 or 4G |
| 23:35.18 | tugrik | and yes, my knowledge of that market is a bit rubbish javispedro |
| 23:35.37 | tugrik | ok... more than a "bit rubbish" then ;) |
| 23:35.42 | jacekowski | yeah just SD allows up to 4G |
| 23:35.59 | tugrik | ah, does it support sdhc? |
| 23:36.06 | jacekowski | javispedro: hmm, it should be electrically compatible |
| 23:36.30 | javispedro | the simple answer is that you might cards bigger than 32GiB to work but it will not be standard so some devices may or might now be able to read/write cards touched by the Maemo device (or viceversa) |
| 23:36.48 | javispedro | hum... vive le free grammar! |
| 23:36.53 | jacekowski | hmmm |
| 23:37.11 | jacekowski | current SD 2.0 spec works nly up to 32G |
| 23:37.22 | jacekowski | even though SDXC itself supports more |
| 23:37.51 | jacekowski | but i suppose n900 could work with bigger sdxc cards |
| 23:37.57 | jacekowski | assuming that there will be driver |
| 23:38.09 | javispedro | the issue here is the filesystem |
| 23:38.10 | olga | javispedro: using this patch i can connect to the full EAP with TTLS & PAP? |
| 23:38.12 | jacekowski | as it's compatible in terms of connections and stuff |
| 23:38.30 | jacekowski | javispedro: fat32 can do 128G iirc |
| 23:38.44 | javispedro | olga: no, I'm giving it to you because you will be able to watch TV with it! |
| 23:38.52 | jacekowski | hmm more |
| 23:39.02 | jacekowski | 2T+ according to wiki |
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| 23:39.13 | javispedro | jacekowski: but the SDXC standard says no FAT; exFAT. |
| 23:39.18 | javispedro | the question is. |
| 23:39.18 | jacekowski | javispedro: as recommended |
| 23:39.27 | jacekowski | javispedro: it's still just a block device |
| 23:39.34 | jacekowski | javispedro: and you can use whatever you want |
| 23:39.35 | javispedro | jacekowski: not exactly |
| 23:39.51 | javispedro | jacekowski: yes, you can use whatever you want, but then it will be out of spec |
| 23:39.51 | olga | javispedro: ah sorry just confirming. not first language |
| 23:40.05 | javispedro | jacekowski: sd standard mandates specific filesystem |
| 23:40.18 | jacekowski | javispedro: well, sdhc specs uses fat32 |
| 23:40.19 | javispedro | jacekowski: say goodbye to logo |
| 23:40.22 | javispedro | for example |
| 23:40.40 | jacekowski | well, not really |
| 23:40.48 | jacekowski | you can sell cards preformated in exfat |
| 23:41.01 | jacekowski | and then user can do everything |
| 23:41.06 | jacekowski | everybody is happy |
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| 23:41.49 | javispedro | jacekowski: crappydevice X is perfectly to then reject the card, and in fact some chinese devices have rejected FAT32 < 2 GiB cards |
| 23:42.01 | javispedro | *perfectly in his right |
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| 23:42.29 | javispedro | solution: don't buy crappydevice, I know :) |
| 23:43.11 | jacekowski | i was thinking that we were talking about n900 support for cards bigger than 64G |
| 23:43.14 | jacekowski | 32* |
| 23:43.26 | javispedro | yes, I'm using that as an example of what will happen |
| 23:43.39 | jacekowski | how often do you swap cards |
| 23:44.01 | javispedro | tbh, microSD: never. |
| 23:44.04 | javispedro | but plain SD: a lot. |
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| 23:44.44 | jacekowski | how do you fit plain SD in n900? |
| 23:44.56 | *** part/#maemo coffeecat (~Robert@ool-45716852.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:44.59 | visz | cut it a bit? |
| 23:45.01 | cehteh | hammer :) |
| 23:46.02 | javispedro | jacekowski: I do not know what we're discussing here, as my initial point was, quoting the horrible grammar: |
| 23:46.02 | javispedro | <javispedro> the simple answer is that you might cards bigger than 32GiB to work but it will not be standard so some devices may or might now be able to read/write cards touched by the Maemo device (or viceversa) |
| 23:49.24 | cehteh | the n900 was announced only to support up to 16gb ... did that change with 1.3? |
| 23:49.48 | jacekowski | because only 16g cards were avaliable at the time |
| 23:49.53 | jacekowski | it's all just software thing |
| 23:49.55 | jacekowski | not hardware |
| 23:50.06 | jacekowski | and software can be changed |
| 23:59.52 | ds3 | SpeedEvil: hmmm don't you have a problem with the connector sticking out and just tempting someone to decapitate it off? |
