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| 00:21.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | hooray hildon-thumbnailer eating my cpu and battery |
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| 00:22.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | was keen enough to shoot ONE photo :-/ |
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| 00:35.22 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: I got 2, might consider pimping up one of them |
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| 00:36.17 | DocScrutinizer | (150mW) |
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| 00:41.26 | DocScrutinizer | damn, Mentalist Traceur - what a cool nick |
| 00:42.14 | DocScrutinizer | fine for tmo, not IRC compatible |
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| 00:53.46 | sivang | just arrived to find privmsgs in backlog from long ago :/ |
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| 00:58.58 | KaffeeJunky123 | that's why I don't keep any logs |
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| 01:12.23 | internetishard | Do any of you use iptables in maemo? |
| 01:12.37 | internetishard | Also, why is fennec so so to *start* loading (opera isn't)? |
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| 01:28.42 | sivang | Jaffa: The idea first came into existence when I saw some ideas for talks, one of them was "building a healthy community" and it evolved a bit to building a health community *and* project given community is involved. |
| 01:30.10 | nox- | internetishard, i may be wrong but istr iptables need power kernel, which there isnt yet for pr1.3 |
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| 02:29.59 | djszapi | 'Hardware problem with MMC:' -> Failed to mount /home/user/MyDocs partition |
| 02:30.16 | djszapi | and my device keeps rebooting after pressing the green tick in a loop, kinda useless device now. |
| 02:30.20 | djszapi | what can I do ? |
| 02:30.47 | SpeedEvil | ~flashing |
| 02:30.47 | infobot | i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 02:31.01 | SpeedEvil | But it is also possible that you have a hardware problem with the mmc |
| 02:31.09 | SpeedEvil | which means you need to return it |
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| 02:32.40 | djszapi | I doubt that. |
| 02:32.47 | djszapi | since with other images it just works. |
| 02:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Well - you never said that |
| 02:33.29 | djszapi | and this problem occured after flashing in image.. |
| 02:33.53 | djszapi | I have not flashed any MMC image since that is not available for my device. |
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| 02:39.03 | djszapi | any idea ? |
| 02:39.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~flashing |
| 02:39.43 | infobot | hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
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| 02:40.14 | djszapi | mmh, I am not sure you know I would not like to use maemo5 |
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| 02:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, I seem too tired to follow your thoughts |
| 02:41.20 | djszapi | seems so |
| 02:41.23 | raster | DocScrutinizer: dooooooooooooook |
| 02:41.32 | DocScrutinizer | rastermaaan |
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| 02:41.56 | DocScrutinizer | howdy |
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| 02:43.26 | raster | DocScrutinizer: how goes it over in .de? |
| 02:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | too cold |
| 02:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | and that's just starting |
| 02:44.22 | raster | hmm |
| 02:44.22 | raster | ugh |
| 02:44.23 | raster | brb |
| 02:45.49 | DocScrutinizer | hooray, some smart dude found a harmattan img to flash on his device, "months ago" |
| 02:47.01 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't that imply he's one of the cracks at Nokia developing that harmattan thing? So why does he ask me about errrr. yeah about what? |
| 02:47.35 | DocScrutinizer | meh, night peeps |
| 02:48.38 | djszapi | any idea ? |
| 02:49.23 | DocScrutinizer | about broken MMC drivers in harmattan? I doubt anybody does |
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| 02:50.17 | djszapi | yeah, you know everybody :) |
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| 02:50.30 | djszapi | just because you do not have the faintest idea :) |
| 02:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | I know ONE thing, I *don't know* you |
| 02:51.21 | raster | thaaaaaaaaats better |
| 02:51.25 | raster | btrfs |
| 02:51.33 | djszapi | you can answer on the internal channel as well ofc... |
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| 02:53.14 | raster | god damned... unicode needs 23bits these days |
| 02:53.16 | raster | thats nuts |
| 02:53.51 | raster | ooh look |
| 02:54.02 | raster | they added the japanese keitai mail emoticons to it |
| 02:54.14 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 02:54.25 | raster | 1F308;RAINBOW;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 02:54.45 | raster | 1F339;ROSE;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 02:54.47 | raster | ... |
| 02:54.55 | raster | 1F3E3;JAPANESE POST OFFICE;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 02:55.04 | raster | i recognise those emoticons |
| 02:55.19 | nox- | haha |
| 02:55.21 | DocScrutinizer | ponders about sushi |
| 02:55.49 | raster | 1F458;KIMONO;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 02:55.52 | raster | will that do? |
| 02:55.56 | raster | or to distract you |
| 02:56.02 | raster | 1F459;BIKINI;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 02:56.02 | raster | 1F45A;WOMANS CLOTHES;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 02:56.12 | DocScrutinizer | also feels temped to /kick, still :-/ |
| 02:57.03 | raster | aaah there it is! |
| 02:57.06 | raster | i knew it'd be there |
| 02:57.10 | raster | here u do DocScrutinizer ... |
| 02:57.14 | raster | 1F363;SUSHI;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 02:57.19 | raster | some sushi for you |
| 02:57.20 | raster | :) |
| 02:58.26 | ds3 | is raster encoding everything as a .HEX file? ;) |
| 02:58.41 | raster | no |
| 02:58.47 | raster | it's just entires from the unicode standard |
| 02:58.52 | raster | http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt |
| 02:58.53 | ds3 | S16? |
| 02:58.55 | ds3 | :D |
| 02:58.55 | DocScrutinizer | how dull can you be, to go foggy like ""<djszapi> mmh, I am not sure you know I would not like to use maemo5"" ""<djszapi> any idea ?"" ""<djszapi> just because you do not have the faintest idea :)"" |
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| 03:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | and then spam me in a query and tell about harmattan waiting since months to get flashed to his device |
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| 03:02.13 | DocScrutinizer | **SIGH** |
| 03:02.58 | raster | hands DocScrutinizer a cookie |
| 03:03.30 | raster | cheer up. unicdeo has cookies |
| 03:03.37 | raster | 1F36A;COOKIE;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 03:03.38 | raster | ooh |
| 03:03.41 | raster | and doughnuts |
| 03:03.46 | raster | 1F369;DOUGHNUT;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; |
| 03:03.48 | raster | :) |
| 03:04.19 | raster | it's got candy too |
| 03:04.33 | DocScrutinizer | raster image was yesterday, now we get unicode image :-D |
| 03:04.48 | raster | hehehe |
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| 03:07.08 | DocScrutinizer | RGB raster image has problems with turquoise, Unicode image has problems with large hotdogs |
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| 03:09.16 | raster | hahaha |
| 03:09.19 | DocScrutinizer | o/ zzzZZZzzz |
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| 04:15.23 | DocScrutinizer | please can somebody with a PR1.3 with stock kernel run powertop, on a device hooked up to walcharger and screen locked |
| 04:16.11 | DocScrutinizer | and post the corresponding values to those of a stock PR1.2 here: |
| 04:16.14 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:16.16 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:16.19 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:16.20 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:16.26 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
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| 04:20.54 | DocScrutinizer | (above values from a PR1.2 with xchat and a xterm active, powertop via ssh+WLAN) |
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| 04:25.31 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282963/ |
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| 04:25.51 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: :-) thnx |
| 04:26.10 | nox- | is the segfault to be expected? |
| 04:26.32 | DocScrutinizer | no, LOL at segfault |
| 04:26.41 | nox- | hehe |
| 04:26.46 | nox- | only just installed it |
| 04:27.12 | Termana | nox-, you're suppose to run it as root |
| 04:27.17 | nox- | oh |
| 04:27.33 | DocScrutinizer | I'm getting similar insane values here, with a tweaked PR1.3 hostmode kernel (esp 100% @ 500MHz) |
| 04:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | only while on charger |
| 04:28.50 | DocScrutinizer | C1 | 98.8% | 262.7ms | 550 MHz | 0.0% | |
| 04:29.19 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:29.41 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, what is the last Ratio column about? The first one is obvious, but the last one doesn't seem to fit in with any of the values at all |
| 04:30.05 | DocScrutinizer | where? |
| 04:30.30 | DocScrutinizer | aah, it's % of cpu@<freq> |
| 04:30.48 | DocScrutinizer | of the active (c0..c3?) state |
| 04:31.31 | DocScrutinizer | basically aiui cols 1..3 are unrelated to col4,5 |
| 04:31.52 | Termana | Oh I see now, thanks. I'd wondered for quite some time what it was about |
| 04:32.14 | nox- | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282965/ |
| 04:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, twisted |
| 04:33.24 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: this was with screen black? |
| 04:33.31 | nox- | no |
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| 04:33.43 | DocScrutinizer | I can tell from powertop |
| 04:33.57 | DocScrutinizer | too much gfx |
| 04:34.10 | nox- | ah hm |
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| 04:35.36 | ebzzry | Hi! Is curl available, in any form, in Fremantle? |
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| 04:36.22 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~x00@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 04:40.25 | DocScrutinizer | compare yours to a PR1.2 system, on wallcharger, with nothing but ssh session running, locked screen: http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ |
| 04:40.54 | *** join/#maemo maswan (maswan@kennedy.acc.umu.se) |
| 04:41.12 | nox- | next try with a sleep 40 in front: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282967/ |
| 04:41.32 | nox- | wow |
| 04:41.34 | DocScrutinizer | the most annoying thing is it spins cpu for nothing, and thus burns quite large amounts of power |
| 04:41.51 | nox- | indeed |
| 04:42.10 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@117.84-48-232.nextgentel.com) |
| 04:42.26 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, well isn't that a side effect of having userspace charging (BME) |
| 04:42.32 | DocScrutinizer | which in turn causes charging of battery never trips the charge end current threshold |
| 04:42.45 | ieatlint | ebzzry: i believe libcurl is a stock library, and curl i think is in the repos |
| 04:42.51 | ieatlint | extras or extras-devel |
| 04:42.57 | DocScrutinizer | Termana: PR1.2 also has "userspace charging" |
| 04:43.05 | ebzzry | ieatlint: OK |
| 04:43.22 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, was yours PR 1.2 or 1.3? |
| 04:43.30 | nox- | oh well mine still got the green leds |
| 04:43.44 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-10-29 06:40:24] <DocScrutinizer> compare yours to a PR1.2 system, on wallcharger, with nothing but ssh session running, locked screen: http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ |
| 04:43.56 | nox- | so it did know (or think?) when it was fully charged |
| 04:43.58 | Termana | Oh righto. |
| 04:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: LED goes green, but it never stops pulling current from charger |
| 04:44.50 | nox- | ah |
| 04:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | and so keeps battery floating at max voltage, which is killing batteries |
| 04:45.12 | nox- | eww |
| 04:45.34 | nox- | `na da hamse uns ja n ei ins nest gelegt...' :P |
| 04:45.56 | DocScrutinizer | also cpu spinning void @ 500MHz which doesn't exactly meet Nokias own recommendations |
| 04:45.56 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, so, good time for jrbme then? :p |
| 04:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: yep |
| 04:46.38 | nox- | unplugs charger |
| 04:47.19 | nox- | and i was just getting used to simply letting it plugged on charger overnight... :( |
| 04:47.45 | Termana | nox-, you can always.... downgrade! DUN DA DAAAA |
| 04:47.48 | *** join/#maemo maswan (maswan@kennedy.acc.umu.se) |
| 04:47.51 | Termana | :p |
| 04:48.24 | DocScrutinizer | I'm doing this all the time, but then I don't care much about LiIon deteriorating, I just buy a new one when I found out how fast it will age |
| 04:48.46 | DocScrutinizer | but CPU aging @ 500MHz isn't exactly irrelevant to me |
| 04:49.04 | nox- | yeah at least this isnt apple where you cant easily change batteries... |
| 04:49.18 | flux | does anyone know why it ups the MHz when USB is connected? |
| 04:49.32 | flux | (whatever the reason must be, I doubt they are releavent when charging only?) |
| 04:49.34 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 04:50.04 | DocScrutinizer | also it seems doesn't happen like that on PR1.2 |
| 04:51.18 | DocScrutinizer | aah, and the "PR1.3" values I got here are - as mentioned above - on a hostmode kernel based on PR1.3, but rootfs still is pr1.1.1 (yes!) |
| 04:51.56 | nox- | ah well i at least did a `normal' upgrade |
| 04:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | so this is clearly a kernel thing, not caused by rootfs system components, like e.g bme |
| 04:52.14 | nox- | (after manually upgrading perl that it didnt like) |
| 04:52.39 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: my figures on 1.3 kernel are same as yours |
| 04:52.44 | nox- | ok |
| 04:56.02 | *** join/#maemo Ordog_by (~quassel@195.222.85.152) |
| 04:57.31 | nox- | without charger: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282974/ |
| 05:06.16 | DocScrutinizer | same as before, but with title, so nobody gets confused :-) http://pastebin.com/QSHS6u3g |
| 05:07.27 | Termana | Ha. Ha. |
| 05:07.38 | Termana | It was so funny you made nox- quit |
| 05:07.39 | Termana | :p |
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| 05:13.18 | ebzzry | ieatlint: Do you have it confirmed that 'curl' exists on extras-devel? |
| 05:14.48 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus_ (~marat@195.218.191.171) |
| 05:15.22 | ieatlint | uh, no, i'd need to look it up |
| 05:17.09 | ebzzry | ieatlint: OK |
| 05:19.11 | ebzzry | I don't think it is present in any of the extras- repos. Has anyone written a working binary of curl for Fremantle? |
| 05:19.21 | *** join/#maemo Jenna (~JJ@unaffiliated/jenna) |
| 05:19.41 | ieatlint | looks like you may be right... thought it was, but appears to be just libcurl |
| 05:19.51 | ebzzry | It is also listed at http://curl.haxx.se/download.html that curl only exists in Maemo 5 as a library, and not a binary. |
| 05:20.20 | ieatlint | there should be no reason someone can't compile curl for arm... |
| 05:21.02 | ebzzry | ieatlint: that's a bold statement |
| 05:21.34 | ieatlint | no, i'm just using the standard geek definition of "should work" which differs from "will work" |
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| 05:22.56 | ieatlint | giving it a quick try right now |
| 05:24.00 | ruskie | ebzzry, I have it in my own repo |
| 05:24.45 | ruskie | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories#ruskie |
| 05:24.46 | ebzzry | ruskie: Where is your repo? |
| 05:24.49 | Jucato | bumps ruskie |
| 05:24.50 | ebzzry | ruskie: Going |
| 05:24.52 | Jucato | >:) |
| 05:24.57 | ruskie | :) |
| 05:25.02 | ieatlint | there you go, simpler even :) |
| 05:25.48 | ieatlint | and it did compile without issue in scratchbox |
| 05:25.52 | Jenna | Hiyall. I flashed my N900 with the PR 1.3 firware (global). I flashed it without restarting or pressing "U" . But nevertheless the firmware got updated. (Shows in the about box in the settings). Anyway my question is should I re-flash it or I dont need to. ? |
| 05:26.52 | ruskie | ieatlint, exactly what my package is ;) just a compile in the scratchbox ;) |
| 05:27.22 | ieatlint | cool |
| 05:27.29 | ebzzry | ruskie: Thanks. I'll test it as soon as I get back from the meeting |
| 05:30.09 | Jenna | u guyz ? n900 no / |
| 05:30.10 | Jenna | ? |
| 05:30.15 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 05:30.32 | ruskie | if it works don't see any reason why reflash |
| 05:30.36 | ruskie | did you reboot it yet? |
| 05:31.27 | ebzzry | ruskie: BTW, what should I put under "Distribution" and "Components"? Where should I put "opt"? |
| 05:31.51 | ruskie | lemme check |
| 05:32.03 | ruskie | components is blank |
| 05:32.07 | *** join/#maemo JorCom (JorCom@80-186-88-173.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 05:32.14 | ruskie | opt/ goes under distribution |
| 05:32.48 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 05:32.52 | ebzzry | ruskie: FAM doesn't like it that way. |
| 05:33.11 | ruskie | https://repo.codemages.net/ and opt/ |
| 05:33.16 | ruskie | note the https:// |
| 05:33.31 | ebzzry | ruskie: URL: https://repo.codemages.net, Distribution: opt, Components: <blank> |
| 05:33.36 | ruskie | opt/ |
| 05:33.38 | ruskie | not opt |
| 05:33.48 | Jenna | ruskie, yeah. I did reboot it & installed lots of software as well. It works. fine. but I did expereinced once bloated graphics when I minimize/maximize the running application. only once. |
| 05:33.51 | ebzzry | ruskie: Gah. That tripped me. |
| 05:34.16 | ruskie | Jenna, sounds like no issue then |
| 05:34.38 | slonopotamus | slonopotamus_: leave me alone |
| 05:35.09 | *** join/#maemo RobbieThe1st (~robbiethe@174-31-2-220.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 05:35.19 | RobbieThe1st | hi all |
| 05:35.19 | Jenna | ruskie, was just concerned since the official documentation at maemo.org said "You ought to reboot the device & press "U" thats all. Dont know why would they say something like that. If it works the other way as well. |
| 05:35.32 | ruskie | Jenna, because sometime it doesn't |
| 05:35.33 | Jenna | hey RobbieThe1st |
| 05:35.48 | ruskie | Jenna, specifically U forces it to some specific mode |
| 05:35.49 | Jenna | ruskie, okay. I guess no harm done. |
| 05:36.30 | Jenna | ruskie, IC. Btw I didn't flashed eMMC thing. whatever that is. Is it okay. ? |
| 05:36.35 | RobbieThe1st | ...Y'know, I'm still not sure why they have that in the documentation: I find it easier and better to set the Flasher to "waiting", then reboot the device. It'll automaticly start and flash easily |
| 05:36.39 | RobbieThe1st | Yea |
| 05:36.51 | *** join/#maemo rmrfchik (~paul@195.191.11.247) |
| 05:36.53 | RobbieThe1st | eMMC flashing is (more or less) optional. |
| 05:37.00 | ruskie | RobbieThe1st, I had to atleast once or twice use the U trick |
| 05:37.10 | ruskie | Jenna, emmc is your data on the device ;) |
| 05:37.19 | RobbieThe1st | Really? why? |
| 05:37.32 | ruskie | because flasher didn't pick it up otherwise |
| 05:37.37 | ruskie | it can happen |
| 05:38.01 | Jenna | ruskie, I had the data all backed up. Would I gain anything positive in flashing eMMC thing ? |
| 05:38.02 | RobbieThe1st | emmc wise, not quite: Its two things: 1, your MyDocs folder/partition, and 2, your /home/ and /opt/ folders. |
| 05:39.36 | RobbieThe1st | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:39.47 | Jenna | oh and the GasBalls hanged on me once too. Is that normal. (I had to pkill them) ? |
| 05:40.31 | RobbieThe1st | Probably |
| 05:40.40 | Jenna | RobbieThe1st, but If you do a backup & then restore after flashing. Shouldn't everything be okay ? |
| 05:40.47 | RobbieThe1st | Yes. |
| 05:41.18 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@62.157.192.144) |
| 05:41.45 | RobbieThe1st | at least, "ok" to the point at which you installed everything - If there's a glitch in a program, it's not (usually) going to fix that |
| 05:42.22 | *** part/#maemo tkeisala (~tkeisala@nat/nokia/x-genbmbkpubvkqwaw) |
| 05:42.39 | RobbieThe1st | What I -will- say though is that, because you didn't flash the eMMC, when you restore your programs, you may find that settings you set before -didn't- get erased. Savegames being one example |
| 05:44.02 | Jenna | and another thing that I noticed was that When I log onto OVI account it shows that I have downloaded some of the applications which were installed before flashing the new Firmware (and are removed after flashing ofcourse). Shouldn't the cookies be removed after flashing. ? |
| 05:44.54 | Jenna | hmm. IC. |
| 05:46.10 | Jenna | Anyway I wonder If anyone has ever cloned the whole n900 filesystem with clonezilla & restored it ala Ghost. |
| 05:46.20 | ruskie | should be possible |
| 05:46.25 | RobbieThe1st | Heh, funny you should mention that |
| 05:46.35 | RobbieThe1st | 's sort of what I'm doing with BackupMenu |
| 05:46.35 | *** join/#maemo rmrfchik (~paul@195.191.11.247) |
| 05:47.14 | RobbieThe1st | Only, for safety reasons, I do backups and restores with most of the OS not running |
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| 05:48.22 | Jenna | RobbieThe1st, is there a how-to doc in the offing ? :) |
| 05:48.31 | *** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.3.224) |
| 05:48.47 | RobbieThe1st | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=844029# Would that be helpful? |
| 05:50.50 | RobbieThe1st | ... t.m.o's down again. |
| 05:51.15 | Jenna | yeah. was wondering what it is taking ages to open |
| 05:51.35 | RobbieThe1st | Give it a few minutes |
| 05:51.38 | Jenna | it been flaky since yesteraday |
| 05:51.51 | Jenna | its* |
| 05:52.01 | RobbieThe1st | Longer than that - It's been going off and on for a couple months now, though usually only at a specific time |
| 05:54.08 | Jenna | its running on rhel5. not sure whats the issue with them ? |
| 05:54.34 | *** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@120.16.141.232) |
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| 05:54.47 | Jenna | Anyway care to suggest/share you novel/best apps for n900 ? |
| 05:54.47 | Termana | Yes, cause RedHat makes it absolutely fault proof |
| 05:54.49 | Termana | not |
| 05:54.50 | Termana | :p |
| 05:55.55 | Appiah | Jenna: the media player :) |
| 05:56.18 | Jenna | Termana, the repository.maemo.org is running of debian . and its been like that as well. |
| 05:56.31 | Jenna | Appiah, check. what else ? |
| 05:56.41 | Appiah | Whatever you need |
| 05:57.02 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 05:57.17 | Appiah | Dont install a bunch of apps just because... install when needed |
| 05:57.30 | Jenna | I don't know the novelty kinda apps. e.g n900fly or angleometer etc.. they are nice & usefull |
| 05:57.39 | psycho_oreos | I generally suggest some powersaving stuff like autodisconnect and some widgets like dataplan monitor, 3g/2g switcher |
| 05:58.25 | Appiah | flashlight is usefull |
| 05:58.53 | psycho_oreos | ssh switcher and status viewer is useful if you use ssh a fair amount |
| 05:59.15 | psycho_oreos | load applet that can take screenshots and video recording comes in very handy |
| 05:59.48 | ruskie | just runs ssh all the time |
| 06:00.17 | Jenna | yeah I have all those. but I think have more apps shouldn't matter as long as those are not always (read backgroud) running kinda tasks. I think widgets come in that category. (hence eating up ur battery) |
| 06:00.22 | psycho_oreos | is paranoid and uses mobile broadband nearly all of the time.. the last thing he wants is to leave ssh open on n900 |
| 06:00.23 | DocScrutinizer | simple brightness applet and load applet |
| 06:00.36 | *** join/#maemo Do-m-pie (~Do-m-pie@195-241-24-17.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 06:00.40 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, you actually have open ports on that mobile connection? |
| 06:00.42 | Jucato | new app: N900Bounce - measures how hard the N900 bounces off a hard surface (like a floor) :D |
| 06:00.51 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-fewbrjdishceihan) |
| 06:00.53 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, as in incoming? |
| 06:01.06 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, well if you ran sshd for instance it would be declared as open otherwise I believe it will be filtered |
| 06:01.14 | Jenna | Jucato, no thanx. :) I'll give that a pass. |
| 06:01.26 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, not what I'm talking about ;) |
| 06:01.45 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, I can't directly connect to my n900 over the internet... |
| 06:01.57 | ruskie | the cellco has all INCOMING ports blocked |
| 06:02.06 | Jenna | for sshd you can always hasve fail2ban or denyhost running. |
| 06:02.21 | psycho_oreos | Jenna, most of the apps are really based on personal preferences.. there aren't much else for apps to recommend apart from general things such as widgets and stuff like maybe categorise for example |
| 06:02.46 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, heh I haven't tried that but I'm a little paranoid as always |
| 06:03.06 | DocScrutinizer | apmefo |
| 06:03.18 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, well I'm paranoid as well... just give it a try ;) |
| 06:03.19 | *** join/#maemo someone (4cfc15a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.252.21.168) |
| 06:03.34 | Jenna | psycho_oreos, I seem to suffer from bad battery life. simple wifi (Adhoc mode) runs it dry after ~1.5 hours. |
| 06:03.38 | ruskie | anyway I generally need to establish a vpn connection to my home network from it before I can ssh in over 3g |
| 06:03.49 | ruskie | Jenna, adhoc is not simple wifi |
| 06:03.50 | psycho_oreos | categorise is less work than apmefo if and when it works. For me it has always worked until I removed it to try out apmefo.. then removed that and reinstalled categorise which fails to work |
| 06:03.55 | ruskie | it's the most power hungry of all modes |
| 06:04.14 | ruskie | has a new kernel built and is scping the modules and it to the device atm... |
| 06:04.19 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, I'll do it when me quota resets :) right now I ran a nice bit of bill on mobile broadband |
| 06:04.31 | ruskie | what's your limit? |
| 06:04.57 | ruskie | and how much is it costing you |
| 06:05.23 | psycho_oreos | Jenna, hmm one can enable stuff like powersaving mode, and using stuff like autodisconnect, minor tweaks such as making brightness to as low as possible + backlight/screen timeouts |
| 06:05.23 | Guest77323 | what's the deal with talk.maemo? it's up, it's down. |
| 06:06.05 | *** join/#maemo V-ille (~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:06.06 | Jenna | psycho_oreos, I always make sure to tone down the cpufrequency |
| 06:06.06 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, puny, 7GB and AUD$49 a month.. right now I've pretty much racked up roughly 5 times that amount |
| 06:06.23 | psycho_oreos | Jenna, using titan's kernel? |
| 06:06.40 | ruskie | Jenna, adhoc wifi is power hungry... simple as that |
| 06:06.45 | ruskie | always was always will be |
| 06:07.20 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, hmm ouch... I pay 10eur for 2gb but I could be paying 18eur for 20gb |
| 06:07.27 | Jenna | ruskie, In PR 1.2 there was a bug that any certificates used to work/even if they are expired (I think). Besides I haven't checked-up if this new firmware has WPA-2 support added. |
| 06:07.38 | ruskie | Jenna, it's Adhoc wifi |
| 06:07.49 | *** part/#maemo djszapi (~djszapi@hoasnet-fe15dd00-48.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:07.50 | ruskie | it behaves differently than in managed mode |
| 06:07.55 | Jenna | Guest77323, Its been like that for quite some time |
| 06:08.06 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, where I live is basically the land of oligopolies' paradise.. all there to milk money out of consumers |
| 06:08.36 | Jenna | psycho_oreos, no. the plain kernel. it that (titan kerne) any good on battery etc.. ? |
| 06:08.36 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, well not that different here... though atleast here we have some regulators that will step on their fingers |
| 06:09.37 | Guest77323 | I know. ever since 1.3 a few days ago the website goes offline sometimes. Just looking for why, I guess. |
| 06:09.46 | psycho_oreos | Jenna, hmm titan's kernel imo won't be that much more of power saving imo (since it doesn't have 128MHz clock for phone calls or something) but I get around 10 or so hours usage (no adhoc) |
| 06:10.07 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, which is good, here the regulator is quite lax about it all |
| 06:10.14 | Jenna | ruskie, Im using ubuntu 10.04 to with my n900. not sure which doesnot support which. I guess I need to digg deep a little more. |
| 06:10.16 | Guest77323 | can't seem to find the twitter status for it either. I thought htey had an account |
| 06:10.49 | ruskie | psycho_oreos, of course there's only 2mio of us and we have 2 real and 3 or 4 virtual cellcos ;) |
| 06:11.41 | ruskie | now to see what I can break(with my own build of the kernel) |
| 06:12.08 | psycho_oreos | ruskie, out here there's more but you won't find nice deals especially for wireless broadband, they'll just rip you off if you exceed over your monthly quot rather than shaping you. |
| 06:13.01 | Jenna | Anyway since you can't hook a RJ-45 with it . I wonder if anyone of have tried USB as an network interface with this. (not sure but in maemo speak its called usb tethering.) |
| 06:13.34 | psycho_oreos | Jenna, yeah USB networking, I've done it |
| 06:13.38 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 06:13.58 | *** join/#maemo abbera_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-aabalybljcafcpmr) |
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| 06:15.51 | Jenna | psycho_oreos, I gather you have to add lots of non-standard stuff to get it going (u know modified kernel n stuff). is that true. ? |
| 06:16.08 | ruskie | nope |
| 06:16.11 | ruskie | works out of the box |
| 06:16.39 | ruskie | hookup the usb cable... select phone mode... setup local usb0 and modules... ssh in |
| 06:16.52 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 06:17.15 | psycho_oreos | Jenna, for USB networking you don't need to hack that much :) but otherwise yes I have some non-standard stuff running on my n900 now |
| 06:18.03 | Jenna | prefers ruskie's method |
| 06:18.07 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 06:18.40 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@host-177.nrln.net) |
| 06:18.41 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 06:18.43 | Jenna | ruskie, the doc link for RT*M please ! |
| 06:19.05 | ruskie | http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking |
| 06:19.18 | ruskie | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 06:19.19 | ruskie | to be precise |
| 06:21.02 | Jenna | hmm. lots of typing. But I guess I can write a onetime script for this. |
| 06:22.25 | *** join/#maemo djszapi (~djszapi@hoasnet-fe15dd00-48.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:23.03 | Jenna | And I suppose you guyz have not given meego 1.1 a try yet ? |
| 06:23.10 | ruskie | nope |
| 06:24.17 | psycho_oreos | nope, 1.1 doesn't have the features I want yet (I would love to have a complete maemo sort of alternative) plus my holdovers with RPM still exist |
| 06:24.50 | ruskie | gah... forgot to run the depmod on the modules dir... |
| 06:25.12 | psycho_oreos | symbol errors? ;) |
| 06:25.20 | ruskie | no... simply no module loading |
| 06:25.23 | ruskie | grumbl... |
| 06:25.24 | psycho_oreos | ahh |
| 06:25.48 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-142-21-174.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 06:25.50 | Jenna | psycho_oreos, meego is not debian based ? |
| 06:25.54 | chx | well, look, the N900 sucks as a phone so on earth would you want to install an even more broken phone stack on it :) ? |
| 06:26.05 | chx | it's an awesome little Linux computer, of course. |
| 06:26.19 | chx | but Meego helps little there as htere are few apps |
| 06:26.20 | psycho_oreos | Jenna, no, it uses RPM package management system as opposed to maemo's DEB package management system |
| 06:26.24 | chx | is this a good assesment? |
| 06:27.00 | psycho_oreos | N900 may suck as a phone but that doesn't mean that one can't use N900 as a phone anyway :) |
| 06:27.09 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-30-146.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 06:27.10 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-dixesikzbameebzg) |
| 06:27.25 | chx | of course, i just gave a reasoning why meego 1.1 makes no sense |
| 06:27.33 | Venemo_N900 | hi |
| 06:27.58 | Jenna | oh. I have been in love with debian eversince I moved over to it after using rpm based distros for 7 years |
| 06:28.01 | Jucato | 1.1 isn't meant for end-user/daily usage yet anyway |
| 06:28.03 | psycho_oreos | though meego's approach is technically to be open as opposed to maemo's current proprietary stuff here and there |
| 06:28.07 | *** join/#maemo ppenz (~ppenz@cm189-78.liwest.at) |
| 06:28.33 | psycho_oreos | phone control for example under maemo is proprietary whereas under meego for n900 is open |
| 06:28.55 | chx | i will believe that when i see an open source wifi driver... |
| 06:29.03 | Venemo_N900 | psycho_oreos: meego's approach is to be as open as possible |
| 06:29.11 | psycho_oreos | wl1251 is open :) |
| 06:29.18 | kwtm | raster: Hey, you are back! |
| 06:29.42 | chx | psycho_oreos: if that's so then what's all this problems with using it in master mode? |
| 06:29.43 | Stskeeps | chx: wl1251 fw is redistributable (like on pc), wifi driver is open in kernel |
| 06:29.53 | psycho_oreos | Venemo_N900, which is good but I still have my grudges with its use of RPM (it'll eventually be over once I do give meego a proper run) |
| 06:30.23 | Jucato | wifi != phone control afaik. so open source wifi driver is not (directly) related to open source phone control |
| 06:30.25 | *** join/#maemo Wikier (~wikier@cm-staticIP-85-152-18-129.telecable.es) |
| 06:30.30 | Venemo_N900 | psycho_oreos: well nothing's wrong with rpm |
| 06:30.35 | psycho_oreos | chx, its because the kernel is ancient on n900, its using 2.6.28.. compat-wireless should give it more edge esp. with injection support |
| 06:30.36 | kwtm | psycho_oreos: Are there any technical concerns with RPM other than it's different from APT? I used to use Mandrake and don't recall any particular problem with urpmi. |
| 06:30.52 | kwtm | It was a long time ago, though. |
| 06:30.55 | chx | psycho_oreos: compat-wireless works on the N900?? |
| 06:31.00 | psycho_oreos | Venemo_N900, personal grudges :) had a really bad holdover eversince using rh8 and later on suse pro 8 |
| 06:31.02 | Stskeeps | kwtm: you can't compare rpm and apt - rpm can be compared to dpkg and apt compared to zypper or yum |
| 06:31.10 | Jucato | rpm is to dpkg as urpmi/yum/zypper is to apt |
| 06:31.14 | Myrtti | groan |
| 06:31.16 | Jucato | bah Stskeeps beat me :P |
| 06:31.24 | chx | psycho_oreos: compat-wireless gave my laptop a new life by allowing power management on the wifi |
| 06:31.28 | *** join/#maemo vanadis (~vanadis@cust.static.84-253-9-113.cybernet.ch) |
| 06:31.31 | kwtm | Stskeeps: Right, I meant to use the two metonymously to represent the two systems, but you're right --I should have said RPM and DEB. |
| 06:31.43 | kwtm | Okay, fine, I'll try again: |
| 06:31.50 | psycho_oreos | kwtm, had issues with rpm being really really unstable, causes segfaults and I had to reissue rebuilding of rpmdb.. that plus usually botched up installation.. |
| 06:31.51 | Jucato | "metonymously" ... gotta look that up >.< |
| 06:31.52 | kwtm | psycho_oreos: Are there any technical concerns with RPM other than it's different from DEB? I used to use Mandrake and don't recall any particular problem with urpmi. |
| 06:31.57 | *** join/#maemo abbera_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-paorvhzrvqvgyoba) |
| 06:31.58 | chx | i might be an idiot but arent RPM files a lot harder to create than DEB |
| 06:32.10 | Stskeeps | chx: i actually find deb files harder than rpm nowadays |
| 06:32.13 | kwtm | psycho_oreos: Okay, so the rpm system is just not as well done as deb, then. |
| 06:32.21 | psycho_oreos | chx, I dunno if compat-wireless works on n900 but in theory one should be able to make it work with n900.. surely |
| 06:32.24 | Jucato | chx: I haven't tried RPM yet, but I would already beg to differ at this point :) |
| 06:32.54 | Jucato | I mean, creating RPM pacakges. but from the docs I've read, it's not harder than DEB |
| 06:32.58 | chx | OK so what should i rtfm on the N900 wifi in master mode? |
| 06:33.00 | chx | i really need that |
| 06:33.11 | psycho_oreos | kwtm, that plus some frontend tools.. such as deb-repack and apt-mirror.. I'll admit they are such a hack but where's the equivalent for rpm? none yet |
| 06:33.23 | kwtm | Jucato: metonymy: the use of a part of an object to refer to the entire object. Like "all hands on deck" (meaning all PEOPLE, not just their hands) or "get your BUTT over here!" (and bring the rest of your body) |
| 06:33.23 | chx | right now i am using an option 442 data card in a ctr 500 router for a mobile hotspot |
| 06:33.35 | chx | it's painful to move the SIM card :/ |
| 06:33.59 | Jenna | anyway I hope maemo would allow to run the meego rpm apps thru alien or something. |
| 06:33.59 | Jucato | kwtm: thanks. I got redirected to many times: metonymously -> metonymically -> metonomy :) |
| 06:34.07 | Jucato | metonymy* |
| 06:34.10 | psycho_oreos | chx, won't be easy, you'll need compat-wirelesss for starters, then you'll need to somehow build iw with sb.. and then hostapd (which is mandatory for all mac80211 based drivers and that includes wl1251) |
| 06:34.23 | ruskie | builds a monolithic kernel to try and rescue his n900 from a reflash |
| 06:34.31 | kwtm | Jucato: Oh, there's no such word as "metonymously"? Mea culpa. :P |
| 06:35.09 | chx | psycho_oreos: so just give up and use ad-hoc? i guess that can work too. is there a free solution? JoikuSpot binds to IMSI and that's unnacceptable, some months I am changing my SIMs more than my socks. |
| 06:35.15 | Jucato | ruskie: any luck of SMGL on it yet? :) |
| 06:35.25 | Jenna | ruskie, linux is usually monolithic unless you go on the path of GNU Hurd |
| 06:35.28 | Jucato | kwtm: np, google was kind enough to tell me so :) |
| 06:35.39 | ruskie | Jenna, what I meant is no modules... all built in |
| 06:36.38 | psycho_oreos | chx, I wouldn't give up easily, I'm tempted to also try and figure out how to get master mode working but it isn't easy for an average joe when there's fair amount of deps one needs. However all is said in theory master mode should work provided one has met all the pre-requisites of setting one up |
| 06:37.01 | Jenna | ruskie, oh. u mean compile the kernel with most of the modules being compiled as "loadable modules". |
| 06:37.12 | kwtm | is only academically interested in this talk of Meego while he doesn't even want to upgrade from PR1.2 to PR1.3 (who knows what it will break, knowing Nokia...) :P |
| 06:37.27 | ruskie | kwtm, I must say nothing broke for a change ;) |
| 06:37.32 | ruskie | atleast for me |
| 06:37.44 | ruskie | and I tend to mess with modified init scripts and such ;) |
| 06:37.58 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis_ (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:38.01 | kwtm | ruskie: Really! Well, okay, if more people say that then I might just go ahead and upgrade. But were there worthwhile improvements? I'm perfectly happy with 1.2 right now. |
| 06:38.10 | Jenna | ruskie ; But a good amount of thought must have been already put into while building a generic kernel. as to what sort of things would be most frequently used n stuff etc.. |
| 06:38.12 | ruskie | can't really say |
| 06:38.16 | ruskie | only been using it a day or two |
| 06:38.32 | psycho_oreos | that reminds me... re: PR1.3 |
| 06:38.32 | flux | apparently it hasn't gone for worse, atleast |
| 06:39.02 | Jenna | kwtm, unless you try n900bounce app. It should surely break it |
| 06:39.05 | Guest77323 | nothing broke for me. but it did make me ditch all the crud I had built up (you have to reinstall apps) |
| 06:39.06 | kwtm | ruskie: I get to claim to be the King of "Mess with Modified Init Scripts". I found the one-line text file that killed the N900 (reflash or return to store). :P Not that I'm such an expert on these things; I just stumbled into it and almost gave up on the N900. |
| 06:39.29 | ruskie | kwtm, lol... I started messing with them the day I got it... |
| 06:39.35 | kwtm | Jenna: Is that the "n900fly" or something like that? "How far can you throw your n900"? I couldn't believe it... |
| 06:39.56 | ruskie | kwtm, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie |
| 06:40.18 | Jucato | kwtm: just an app idea. "how hard can your N900 bounce" :) |
| 06:40.22 | kwtm | Jenna: although it would be nice to have an "accelerometer record" app for the car to see how hard I brake/swerve when I drive. :) |
| 06:40.25 | RobbieThe1st | It's device-breaking time! |
| 06:40.26 | ruskie | anyway it's actually sad that the n900 is so easy to break though |
| 06:40.29 | chx | psycho_oreos: http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ what's with this? |
| 06:40.37 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: imagine, they were unable to repair my N900 so they replaced it |
| 06:40.44 | Jucato | kwtm: this would be great for a MeeGo tablet too: http://www.cultofmac.com/self-evidently-bad-app-idea-scale-for-ipad/45179 |
| 06:40.49 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@114.28.213.193.static.cust.telenor.com) |
| 06:40.53 | Guest77323 | this is why we can't have nice things |
| 06:40.54 | Jenna | kwtm, Im a bit stingy with my spending. so I dont have a big heart to try various altitudes |
| 06:41.05 | kwtm | ruskie: Are you using an Otter Box? It looks indestructible (not that I've ever tried to test it...) |
| 06:41.14 | ruskie | kwtm, I meant software wise |
| 06:41.50 | psycho_oreos | chx, that uses ad-hoc mode.. I have it installed and it isn't particularly great but one should never complain over free lunch :) |
| 06:41.51 | kwtm | Jenna: Ah, unlike you, I bought three N900's in a row. |
| 06:41.58 | ruskie | every little thing breaks it... ow you want to mount /usr... sure... breaks... because stuff in /bin needs stuff in /usr/lib |
| 06:42.03 | ruskie | kwtm, oh wow |
| 06:42.19 | kwtm | conveniently omits the fact that he returned the first two because of a defect. Yeah, the one-liner text file that killed the bootup process. |
| 06:42.23 | ruskie | lol |
| 06:42.41 | RobbieThe1st | Ruskie: Sounds to me like you want to be able to make RootFS images to flash when you break things.. |
| 06:42.43 | psycho_oreos | would be happy if he could afford to another n900 |
| 06:42.46 | Jenna | btw I hear they make alumimum casings for n900 as well. Anyone invested on those ? |
| 06:42.52 | chx | psycho_oreos: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=757040&postcount=214 seems the firmware has a bug |
| 06:42.57 | RobbieThe1st | ruskie: Like, say, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html |
| 06:43.04 | ruskie | RobbieThe1st, have considered it |
| 06:44.03 | kwtm | ruskie: I can't beat your web page. I can only offer this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58551&page=3 |
| 06:44.34 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@5ED35803.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 06:44.44 | psycho_oreos | chx, interesting, oh well that looks like it would be seen as TI's fault |
| 06:45.03 | chx | psycho_oreos: http://www.expansys-usa.com/spectec-sdw-823-microsdio-wlan-card-802-11bg-140798/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base would this work? |
| 06:46.04 | djszapi | checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. -> How can I avoid it in scratchbox while build the target debian package ? |
| 06:46.14 | djszapi | i386 target, it works with arm target though. |
| 06:46.50 | chx | http://www.spectec.com.tw/downloads.html source code here. |
| 06:47.46 | psycho_oreos | chx, I wouldn't know to be honest, plus USB host-mode could bring more potentials into the mix. |
| 06:48.39 | chx | thats not usb |
| 06:48.39 | kwtm | Anyway, I am on the verge of mapping a vim keystroke to phone phone numbers highlighted in a text file. I hate the built-in phone GUI. It is so clumsy... |
| 06:48.51 | RobbieThe1st | :P |
| 06:49.02 | ruskie | kwtm, interesting issue |
| 06:49.22 | psycho_oreos | chx, correct it isn't but I'm not sure how will it function under maemo :) |
| 06:49.29 | ruskie | kwtm, you know you can just type on the desktop and it'll get you to the contact? |
| 06:49.40 | kwtm | The contacts database takes forever to search through (not for everybody, it seems, but for me). |
| 06:50.14 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 06:50.24 | ruskie | hmm |
| 06:50.29 | ruskie | how many contacts do you have? |
| 06:50.32 | kwtm | ruskie: Actually, I am trying to avoid using the contact database. It slows down when I load the Conversations widget (because then it has to look up each phone number to map the phone number to the name). Same with loading the phone app since it has to load contacts database. |
| 06:50.47 | kwtm | ruskie: Only about 2580 or so. Other people tell me they have 2000+ with no slowdown. |
| 06:50.48 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@ppp-188-174-95-96.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 06:50.56 | ruskie | kwtm, last I checked all those were preloaded |
| 06:50.58 | RobbieThe1st | ..Huh, it worked. Great. So, current version of BackupMenu works fine on PR1.3 |
| 06:51.02 | ruskie | contacts, phone, browser, etc... |
| 06:51.07 | ruskie | kwtm, lol... |
| 06:51.12 | Guest77323 | god I need more friends. |
| 06:51.12 | kwtm | ruskie: AND the contacts app can't import more than 1000 contacts at a time (thanks a lot, Nokia!) |
| 06:51.23 | *** join/#maemo kwek (~kwek@221.Red-79-151-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:51.24 | ruskie | do you actually know all 2580 ppl? |
| 06:51.29 | Venemo_N900 | kwtm: lol |
| 06:51.31 | ruskie | or are those like fecesbook friends? |
| 06:52.14 | kwtm | ruskie: Why do I need to know all 2580 ppl? When you have 2580 files on your computer, do people ask, "Do you know what is contained in all 2580 files"? Do you make sure that you know what is in each of 2580 photos that you took? |
| 06:52.29 | ruskie | kwtm, generally yes |
| 06:52.34 | kwtm | ruskie: But, to answer you, YES I know all 2580 people. Why would I put in the contacts database otherwise? |
| 06:52.36 | ruskie | I sort through them and discard any I don't like |
| 06:52.39 | Guest77323 | lol |
| 06:52.59 | *** join/#maemo harbaum (~quassel@2001:8d8:1fe:8:baac:6fff:fe2d:73a3) |
| 06:53.26 | ruskie | hmm I think I have less than 30 contacts in mine |
| 06:53.41 | kwtm | I think the contacts app was designed by some pathetic Nokia engineer. "Hey, I tried importing my ENTIRE list of friends, and both of the entries got imported, so it must work!" |
| 06:53.43 | ruskie | and even there I generally don't use more than 2-3 regulary |
| 06:54.00 | ruskie | kwtm, tried using syncevolution to sync from a syncml server? |
| 06:54.01 | kwtm | (apologies if said pathetic Nokia engineer is among present company) |
| 06:54.24 | ruskie | well imho I'd call 2000+ a corner case |
| 06:54.29 | ruskie | not something one would use to test against |
| 06:54.31 | kwtm | ruskie: Hmm... not sure what you are saying about syncevolution. Is that supposed to start my phone app more quickly because it doesn't have to keep rummaging through my contacts? |
| 06:54.41 | Jenna | RobbieThe1st, I suppose and editing is in the order of that page http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=844029# |
| 06:54.45 | ruskie | no I meant for importing contacts ;) |
| 06:54.55 | ruskie | I think the average would be more like 50 maybe 100 contacts |
| 06:55.19 | kwtm | ruskie: Well, I've managed to import all contacts. Just had to do it 1000 contacts at a time. But my beef is not just (or even mainly) that it would only import 1000 at a time. |
| 06:55.32 | kwtm | My beef is that it would ONLY import 1000 at a time AND NOT TELL ME. |
| 06:55.32 | ruskie | yes you said so |
| 06:55.39 | ruskie | lol |
| 06:55.56 | RobbieThe1st | Yea, I suppose. I'm developing as I go, and have had to change things multiple times, so... Plus, I probably should go find a proper layout template.. |
| 06:56.01 | kwtm | So: "Okay, user, I've imported ALL your contacts." (in an aside whisper) "The first 1000 contacts, anyway. Why would you need me to import more?" |
| 06:56.05 | RobbieThe1st | Like, a list of proper sections and all |
| 06:56.24 | kwtm | And then I have to figure out WHICH contacts have been imported and which haven't. So then I reimport the rest of the file and have duplicate contacts. |
| 06:56.32 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 06:56.58 | kwtm | Ever try to merge 1000 duplicate contacts? (No, *don't* tell me about the "merge duplicate contacts" app which makes you check off 1000 checkboxes to merge the 1000 duplicate contacts) |
| 06:57.51 | Venemo_N900 | kwtm: I only did this with a few hundred, not 1000 |
| 06:58.12 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@office.adfinis.com) |
| 06:58.20 | kwtm | However, to get back to what I originally mentioned: I could stick these contacts all in one big 10MB (or 100MB) text file and vim can handle it fine. |
| 06:58.38 | ruskie | hmm would be nice to have a smart merge contacts system... |
| 06:58.42 | kwtm | So I'll just get a vim command to send some dbus command and dispense with all the contact lookup. |
| 06:58.47 | *** join/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de) |
| 06:58.48 | RobbieThe1st | Yea, that's true. VIM's frigging awesome |
| 06:59.21 | kwtm | The only thing I need is how to generate DTMF tones while in a phone call (e.g. "John is not available right now --press 1 to leave a message" etc.) |
| 07:00.04 | kwtm | RobbieThe1st: vim is the most-used application I have. I use it to take notes and look up this huge database of drug info (I'm a doctor; I use this every day) |
| 07:01.22 | RobbieThe1st | I can imagine. Personally, I use it as my console text-editor on both my N900 and desktop, though I do tend to use a GUI editor when I'm on the desktop. If I'm editing cfg or script files though? vim it is. |
| 07:01.42 | kerio | kwtm: there's probably a doctor-mode in emacs |
| 07:02.01 | kwtm | Speaking of text-based apps, is there a text-based browser like lynx, links2 or elinks for the N900 which can replace the built-in MicroB ("B" is for Bloat)? |
| 07:02.02 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 07:02.06 | kerio | (not to mention the org-mode for taking notes, which i'm told is godly) |
| 07:02.16 | kwtm | kerio: Yeah, but I can't use emacs. I only have 10 fingers. :) |
| 07:02.22 | kerio | kwtm: you have a weird idea of bloat but... i guess lynx, links2 or elinks |
| 07:02.22 | RobbieThe1st | :P |
| 07:02.31 | kerio | i'd use dillo though |
| 07:02.38 | kerio | lightning fast, and has more features than elinks |
| 07:02.51 | kwtm | kerio: Well, I currently use MicroB to load my home page with is a simple text file (okay, it's got one form field for looking up Google). It takes FOREVER to load! |
| 07:02.53 | Jucato | kwtm: I just saw links while browsing a while ago. in extras-devel probably |
| 07:03.11 | kerio | i mean, dillo supports css! |
| 07:03.14 | kwtm | kerio: Oh, dillo is a text browser? Haven't heard of it but sounds like I should look it up. |
| 07:03.19 | kerio | no, it's graphical |
| 07:03.20 | Jucato | kwtm: you should try it on fennec then! FOREVER * FOREVER :) |
| 07:03.22 | ruskie | no it isn't |
| 07:03.23 | kerio | but reeeeeeeeeeeeally fast |
| 07:03.28 | ruskie | it's a gui browser |
| 07:03.45 | ruskie | I'll stick to uzbl myself though |
| 07:03.56 | kwtm | Jucato: Ahhh, yes. Fennec. Where, instead of taking a coffee break, you can fly to Colombia to pick out the coffee beans yourself while waiting for it to load. :) |
| 07:03.58 | ruskie | just wish someone would make a usable port of it for the n900 |
| 07:04.28 | RobbieThe1st | kwtm: How come it takes so long? Heck, even Slashdot takes only around 20s with my 1.5m dsl connection... |
| 07:04.46 | Jucato | ruskie: didn't you use midori once upon a time? |
| 07:04.53 | RobbieThe1st | vs around 8s on my desktop |
| 07:04.56 | ruskie | Jucato, nope |
| 07:05.05 | kwtm | Well, I tried Midori, but it has this weird bug. When I type some text (e.g. in the URL bar), it replaces whatever I type with the Fn+ key. For example, I type S, then "S" appears, and then it disappears and is replaced by "+". D becomes # and F becomes -. Weird. |
| 07:05.07 | kerio | http://arewefastyet.com/ |
| 07:05.47 | kwtm | RobbieThe1st: No idea. It's a built in text file on the N900. It doesn't even need an internet connect, for crying out loud. (I just use the text file as a quick way to get to various links, like Google, or my .documents directory, etc.) |
| 07:05.52 | kerio | sunspider ftw |
| 07:05.56 | RobbieThe1st | Wow |
| 07:06.02 | *** join/#maemo tekojo_ (~quassel@host-177.nrln.net) |
| 07:06.06 | kwtm | Midori doesn't have a file browser. It chokes on URLs like "file:///home/user/MyDocs/.documents" |
| 07:06.36 | ruskie | true |
| 07:06.54 | kerio | kwtm: are you aware of the esistance of... you know... bookmarks |
| 07:07.08 | kerio | which is what you're supposed to use while browserd loads |
| 07:07.17 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@192.100.124.156) |
| 07:07.50 | ruskie | hmmm anyone got an emergency recovery kernel with an initrd attached? |
| 07:07.51 | kwtm | kerio: Oh, I'd have to use the bookmarks feature of MicroB instead of having it load a single textonly HTML file from the local file system? From my experience, bookmarks are even slower (and they have to generate a graphics thumbnail). |
| 07:08.05 | kerio | kwtm: they load fast though |
| 07:08.07 | kerio | open Web |
| 07:08.13 | kerio | it opens up "instantly" |
| 07:08.18 | *** join/#maemo spinningcompass (~hugo@adsl-99-58-161-255.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:08.21 | kerio | ask timeless_mbp for the reason |
| 07:08.24 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-wkxheuvvkbnyqmcv) |
| 07:08.34 | kerio | he worked on microB |
| 07:08.35 | kwtm | kerio: Probably my N900 is slowed down for some reason. I've seen on threads that some people have very slow N900's and aren't sure why. There seem to be multiple reasons. |
| 07:08.47 | kwtm | Sometimes a restart will fix it, sometimes not. |
| 07:08.53 | ruskie | I'd say tracker might be the main issue |
| 07:08.58 | raster | kwtm: back from where? i never left |
| 07:09.12 | Venemo_N900 | kwtm: when was your last reflash? |
| 07:09.34 | kwtm | ruskie: Yeah, what *is* this "tracker" thing? Is it like a built-in gremlin that slows everything down? |
| 07:09.36 | *** join/#maemo Noobob (5391e309@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.145.227.9) |
| 07:09.45 | kerio | while also indexing your music |
| 07:09.48 | kerio | so yeah |
| 07:09.58 | ruskie | kwtm, indexer |
| 07:10.02 | ruskie | documents etc... |
| 07:10.03 | kerio | there's also pulseaudio |
| 07:10.12 | ruskie | you can edit it's config file somewhere in your ~/ on the device |
| 07:10.17 | kerio | which is another built-in gremlin that slows everything down |
| 07:10.22 | kerio | while making you listen to shit |
| 07:10.45 | Jucato | thought PR 1.3 had PA-related fixes? |
| 07:10.52 | RobbieThe1st | Oh, yea. That reminds me - Time to figure out the setting to disable apt auto-updates |
| 07:10.55 | kerio | Jucato: does it still use pa? |
| 07:11.15 | kwtm | raster: :) :) that's so funny: "Raster, you're back!" (40 minutes later) "What do you mean? I never left" ... uhh... Anyway, what I meant was that I didn't see you the few times that I signed on; I'm eager to hear more news about the Samsung Linux Phone thing. I know you can't say much, but ... still moving on track? I'm looking forward to having a choice of Real Linux Smartphones. |
| 07:11.17 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-cyvspybmtmilkfcf) |
| 07:11.30 | Jucato | kerio: afaik yes. |
| 07:11.37 | kerio | then it's not fixed yet |
| 07:11.39 | Jucato | don't think they can replace PA in the middle of a release |
| 07:11.43 | Jucato | heh |
| 07:11.48 | raster | kwtm: oh i just lurk. people are just at my desk in real life :) |
| 07:11.49 | kwtm | kerio: I think that, on my N900, it's PulseAudio and also the swapping. |
| 07:11.52 | raster | or i'm off doing code |
| 07:11.54 | raster | or something |
| 07:12.04 | kwtm | raster: I figured that. :) |
| 07:12.05 | raster | as for on track - yes. moving. nicely |
| 07:12.05 | kerio | teh swapping :( |
| 07:12.55 | internetishard | Do any of you use iptables in maemo? |
| 07:12.55 | internetishard | Also, why is fennec so so to *start* loading (opera isn't)? |
| 07:12.58 | kwtm | I set "swappiness" to 1 (I think) and when the phone rings, it takes about 15 seconds for the phone app to become usable. Of course, my phone shunts to voice mail after 15 seconds... |
| 07:13.18 | kerio | internetishard: because gecko is not exactly light |
| 07:13.23 | internetishard | oh shpan i was wondering about swappiness on maemo |
| 07:13.28 | kwtm | internetishard: You just cut and pasted your question about fennec from before (complete with typo: s/so/slow/2) |
| 07:13.36 | internetishard | yeah I'm smahsed |
| 07:13.41 | internetishard | just checking back irc before i crash |
| 07:13.42 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-zlandgbnnonuzjhp) |
| 07:13.45 | internetishard | Appologies |
| 07:13.46 | timeless_mbp | kerio: what's the question? |
| 07:13.49 | raster | kwtm: swappiness to 1 or 100? |
| 07:14.07 | kerio | timeless_mbp: "why do you feel the need to lie to your user regarding the loading time of microb |
| 07:14.16 | kwtm | Is there some command to check swapping, like "while /bin/true; do am_I_swapping >> swap.log; sleep 5s; done" or something like that? |
| 07:14.20 | timeless_mbp | kerio: "duh"? |
| 07:14.21 | kerio | wrt bookmarks vs real windows" |
| 07:14.39 | kwtm | raster: Swappiness to 1, I think. So it tries not to swap, but when it does swap, it takes forever. At least that's my impression. |
| 07:14.48 | timeless_mbp | the system's dyloader more or less sucks |
| 07:14.52 | raster | just set to 0 |
| 07:14.54 | kwtm | raster: I think default is 30? I tried changing it but it didn't help. |
| 07:15.00 | raster | well it will swap |
| 07:15.03 | raster | when it runs out of ram |
| 07:15.04 | timeless_mbp | so loading the engine takes time during which the process can't possibly give any feedback |
| 07:15.19 | raster | but it wont swap anon pages out in favor of disk cache |
| 07:15.23 | raster | which is what swappiness controls |
| 07:15.34 | timeless_mbp | imagine you had an app that couldn't possibly browse |
| 07:15.39 | kwtm | raster: Yeah, I actually think my N900 is so slow because it runs out of RAM. (And that contacts database must somehow thrash it badly) |
| 07:15.43 | timeless_mbp | what other thing could you *possibly* provide while you waited? |
| 07:15.57 | raster | then swappiness wont help u |
| 07:16.06 | raster | contacts db - depends how its handled |
| 07:16.11 | kwtm | raster: Yeah, I found out the hard way... |
| 07:16.11 | raster | ifits mmaped and decoded onthe fly |
| 07:16.18 | raster | then that will be disk cache |
| 07:16.20 | dRbiG | ehh? i agree that tracker is a big mistake, but pulseaudio? in my case when i'm listening to music and someone calls it's almost instantenous that i get the ringtone instead of music and phone app ready to answer, or not |
| 07:16.23 | raster | thus swappiness will control it |
| 07:16.31 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-pvoyfenthpoqjjzm) |
| 07:16.31 | raster | if its loaded and kept all in heap.. then no. |
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| 07:16.47 | dRbiG | kerio: maybe the problem in your case is some other app, not pa |
| 07:17.15 | raster | kernel should have an easy (root only) feature to lock pages of a specific process into memory |
| 07:17.17 | raster | (mlock) |
| 07:17.18 | kwtm | dRbiG: I think it is me to whom you address your comment --kerio wasn't having a problem. But I think it's mainly ram. |
| 07:17.19 | *** part/#maemo djszapi (~djszapi@hoasnet-fe15dd00-48.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:17.29 | dRbiG | oh, sorry |
| 07:17.36 | raster | all pages it touches (read or write) should get mlocked by kernel auotmatically |
| 07:17.49 | kwtm | I can't prove it, but I think I just use vim a heck of a lot and it takes more memory, and then everything else swaps around... :P |
| 07:17.50 | raster | (until they are released) |
| 07:18.34 | kwtm | raster: Wow, I am swooning with all these impressive technical terms, but I think what you're saying is that swappiness is not my problem. But is *swapping* itself my problem? |
| 07:18.45 | raster | yes |
| 07:18.59 | raster | swappiness can cause swapping |
| 07:18.59 | kwtm | My N900 slowly slows down until it's unusable every week or so. Then I turn it off and on, and sometimes it's back to normal, sometimes not. |
| 07:19.06 | raster | but the thing that causes it is disk access |
| 07:19.11 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-zvuctsijaudrrabh) |
| 07:19.13 | raster | (reading files for example) |
| 07:19.13 | dRbiG | kwtm: strange |
| 07:19.14 | RobbieThe1st | Hm... Isn't there some setting that forces it to try to keep x KB free most all the time? |
| 07:19.20 | dRbiG | i have uptimes of weeks |
| 07:19.23 | raster | if you set it to 0 |
| 07:19.24 | dRbiG | and it never slows down |
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| 07:19.32 | raster | then disk io wont force things to swap out |
| 07:19.34 | raster | BUT |
| 07:19.45 | raster | u still can get swapping due to simply being out of enouhg mem |
| 07:19.51 | *** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@a88-112-162-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 07:19.51 | raster | and needing more for a process |
| 07:19.55 | kwtm | dRbiG: Oh, stop being so surprised. I found out that everyone uses his/her computer differently, so YOU could have no problem, but that doesn't really help ME. |
| 07:20.02 | dRbiG | kwtm: my bet is that you have some app that doesn't clean up properly |
| 07:20.03 | raster | and thats another matter entirely |
| 07:20.10 | raster | there is a system call called mlock() |
| 07:20.14 | raster | only root can use it |
| 07:20.19 | raster | but u can use it to lock memory in place |
| 07:20.24 | dRbiG | kwtm: exactly - my 'help' here is that i would rule out pulseaudio as source |
| 07:20.27 | raster | that means it will not be swapped out |
| 07:20.28 | raster | ever |
| 07:20.33 | kwtm | dRbiG: Agreed, but what could it be? My suspicion is that it's one of the built-ins (or vim) because I don't use the others enough to cause swap flop |
| 07:20.36 | raster | until released or munlocked() |
| 07:20.39 | raster | but its a system call |
| 07:20.48 | raster | and you do it inside your app on ranges of memory |
| 07:21.10 | kwtm | dRbiG: I say pulseaudio because "conky" shows that pulseaudio will take up 16% CPU at a time when there is not really any sound playing (other than "click" when I tap on an icon). |
| 07:21.27 | raster | this means that a "vital" process that is needed and must react ASPA |
| 07:21.33 | raster | can at least avoid swapping itself back in |
| 07:21.34 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 07:21.46 | raster | it can also mlock pages from its code and shared libs in to avoid paging them in too when it wakes up |
| 07:21.53 | kwtm | raster: From the standpoint of us non-technical mortals, is there a way to "lock" the phone app in memory, at least? |
| 07:22.04 | RobbieThe1st | Um... keep it running? |
| 07:22.07 | kwtm | Can I write a 3-line C program that says "mlock(phone_app);" or something? |
| 07:22.21 | raster | it could also be set to a realtime (fifo) priority to ensure it absolutely gets all the cpu it needs (other than cpu used by kernel to service interrupts and kernel services) |
| 07:22.32 | raster | so for example.. dialler should/could do that |
| 07:22.36 | raster | along with telephony server |
| 07:22.47 | kwtm | RobbieThe1st: Hmm, I never thought about that. It would be really inconvenient on the dashboard, but might be worth a try... wonder if I need to keep the Contacts app running, too. |
| 07:22.51 | raster | though as dialler needs x and compositor and wm to work also for display to happen |
| 07:23.01 | raster | u'd need to also mlock/realtime fifo them too |
| 07:23.03 | dRbiG | kwtm: hmm, does the cpu usage stays high for long or is it just a oneshoot peak?... and i think that conky is more suitable to be the memory and cpu hog it that case :) |
| 07:23.14 | raster | to make a sure-fire way to always handle an incoming call "instantly" |
| 07:23.22 | raster | anyway |
| 07:23.30 | raster | for those not wiritng the code |
| 07:23.34 | raster | u're "screwed" |
| 07:23.41 | raster | thats what i was getting at |
| 07:23.56 | raster | there is currently no way to tell the kernel to do this for u with a nice /proc/ value |
| 07:23.57 | raster | or something |
| 07:23.59 | kwtm | dRbiG: What do you mean, conky is more suitable? Conky lists the top 4 apps that use the most CPU, and I can see that PulseAudio is generally 1st or 2nd when my phone slows down. |
| 07:24.03 | raster | that'd be much more convenient |
| 07:24.06 | raster | (or not last i knew) |
| 07:24.45 | *** join/#maemo abbera_ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-pbgfbohhpsblvsft) |
| 07:25.03 | kwtm | raster: Ahh, too bad. But now that you mention "dialler", is that the phone GUI? Could I (say) use a dbus command to dial a phone, and then only afterward invoke "dialler" so I have a GUI to respond to "Press 1 to leave a message, press 2 to get the operator" etc.? |
| 07:25.15 | RobbieThe1st | Y'know, we all complain about the N900 not being responsive enough... Ubuntu on a similar-spec'd machine(1ghz tablet, 512mb ram) is -so- much worse when running apps that take all available CPU |
| 07:25.27 | raster | wel conceptually its the dialling/calll handling gui process |
| 07:25.34 | raster | actually dont know what it is on maemo |
| 07:25.46 | raster | RobbieThe1st: hehehehe |
| 07:26.08 | *** join/#maemo amigadave (~amigadave@85.183.48.167) |
| 07:26.11 | kwtm | RobbieThe1st: >sigh< Okay, we can all complain about Ubuntu, then, too. The point is: when you have a phone, it's not enough for the computer to be just a computer. When my patient calls don't come through because I can't answer the call in time, it doesn't help to say, "But Ubuntu is even slower!" |
| 07:26.23 | RobbieThe1st | True |
| 07:26.42 | raster | indeed |
| 07:26.50 | raster | that reminds me |
| 07:26.54 | raster | need to check on something |
| 07:26.59 | raster | thanks for the reminder :) |
| 07:27.04 | RobbieThe1st | the -obvious- thing to do then, is to call the N900 a "Mobile computer", with a sim-card-slot. Problem solved. :P |
| 07:27.21 | kwtm | I think (in my limited technical knowledge) that what we need is RTlinux. The phone gets to be a RT process. Everything else is just an idle process that executes in the background. WHen the phone rings, I don't care if the entire computer locks up and freezes while the phone app pops up. |
| 07:28.01 | *** join/#maemo sergio (~sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:28.06 | kwtm | RobbieThe1st: Yeah, that's what someone else said, too (but in a much less friendly way than you): "It's not a phone! It's a computer --with phone capabilities!" Meanwhile, it's being marketed worldwide as a phone. (Otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.) |
| 07:28.32 | crashanddie | actually, it's been marketed worldwide as a computer in your pocket |
| 07:28.36 | RobbieThe1st | Heck, I'd like a bit more than that - Give the phone RT priority, sound high priority, whatever app's in the foreground high priority. Everything else gets low priority. |
| 07:28.38 | kwtm | I guess Nokia can say, if Maemo runs slow, "It's not a computer! It's a paperweight --with computing and SD card IO and wifi capabilites" |
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| 07:29.09 | crashanddie | kwtm, http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ |
| 07:29.19 | dRbiG | kwtm: yes, it's a computer and phone is additional feature. anyway, i still think that you have some app or something that does something bad to pa when you get a call |
| 07:29.21 | crashanddie | kwtm, read the title of that page "Nokia N900 Mobile Computer" |
| 07:29.29 | *** part/#maemo crashanddie (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 07:29.30 | dRbiG | so pa is suddenly taking more resources that it should |
| 07:29.32 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 07:29.34 | crashanddie | wrong focus |
| 07:29.39 | kwtm | RobbieThe1st: Agreed! Can't we expand nice from the -10to+10 range to -100to+100? I'm *almost* longing for the non-multitasking Treo650 that I had --"background" tasks have zero priority. They simply don't get executed at all! :) |
| 07:30.08 | jacekowski | kwtm: there is something like that |
| 07:30.12 | jacekowski | kwtm: nice 19 |
| 07:30.23 | kwtm | crashanddie: Oh, THERE you are! Was wondering when you'd pop up. Anyway, we had this discussion before. |
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| 07:30.36 | dRbiG | kwtm: on the other hand - did you have such problems when your n900 was bare to the factory settings? |
| 07:31.06 | crashanddie | erhm, no |
| 07:31.11 | crashanddie | you probably had this discussion with someone else |
| 07:31.14 | kwtm | dRbiG: Oh, don't even talk about bare-to-factory. It crashed on the second day (yeah, one-line text file again). But to answer your question: yes. |
| 07:31.20 | crashanddie | you know, one of the other few hundred geeks |
| 07:31.24 | crashanddie | who are... right |
| 07:31.27 | kwtm | crashanddie: No, it was you. |
| 07:31.38 | Myrtti | crashanddie: DENY TO THE LAST BREATH! |
| 07:31.40 | *** join/#maemo cfreak200 (~cfreak200@p4FDB722F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:31.48 | jacekowski | kwtm: apps with nice 19 only are scheduled on to a processor if there are resources left from other apps |
| 07:31.53 | kwtm | Oh, er, right! Yeah, it must have been some other geek. Yeah. |
| 07:32.03 | kwtm | jacekowski: Really!? Okay, will try that. |
| 07:32.24 | jacekowski | kwtm: and/or you can SIGSTOP and SIGCONT apps as needed |
| 07:32.28 | kwtm | jacekowski: Is there a corollary: nice -19 will get whatever resources are available? Would love to renice -19 the phone. |
| 07:32.39 | jacekowski | kwtm: yes |
| 07:32.42 | jacekowski | kwtm: there is |
| 07:32.51 | jacekowski | kwtm: and phone app already has quite high nice |
| 07:32.51 | kwtm | jacekowski: Very interesting... okay. Will try that. |
| 07:33.04 | jacekowski | kwtm: and pulseaudio as well |
| 07:33.16 | kwtm | jacekowski: I figured the phone app would be negative-niced, which is why I am postulating that it's the contacts app that's slowing it down. |
| 07:33.23 | dRbiG | and both of them work for other people |
| 07:33.26 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 07:33.39 | jacekowski | kwtm: but if you have low nice app telling pulseaudio to do something strange it's not going to help |
| 07:33.39 | dRbiG | so guess is that the problem is actually somewhere else |
| 07:33.56 | jacekowski | because it will be pulseaudio with high nice using lot of resources |
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| 07:34.02 | *** join/#maemo abbera__ (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-xvdvggonbvzgkote) |
| 07:34.16 | kwtm | dRbiG: Hmm, so you think it may be related to pulseaudio, but not directly the way pulseaudio is written. You think it may be some other app using pulseaudio in a non-optimal way. |
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| 07:34.29 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 07:34.32 | dRbiG | kwtm: exactly that was my guessing |
| 07:34.36 | jacekowski | pulseaudio is suboptimal by design |
| 07:34.44 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: hi :) do you probably know the answer to my question if i should flash "secondary", "2nd" and "xloader" and if yes, then which version (as pr1.3 has several bundled). |
| 07:34.48 | jacekowski | and it was obsolete at the moment of writing |
| 07:35.09 | kwtm | jacekowski: I don't suppose there's an equivalent of "swapnice -19 |
| 07:35.16 | jacekowski | kwtm: renice |
| 07:35.18 | kwtm | jacekowski: I don't suppose there's an equivalent of "swapnice -19" where the app is never swapped out, as raster was implying? |
| 07:35.24 | jacekowski | ah |
| 07:35.28 | jacekowski | there is |
| 07:35.35 | jacekowski | but it has to be done by app |
| 07:35.38 | jacekowski | mlock |
| 07:35.58 | jacekowski | and it's blocked on most systems |
| 07:36.06 | jacekowski | because it has potential for abuse |
| 07:36.17 | jacekowski | because it's messing up with memory overcommit |
| 07:36.25 | dRbiG | a lot of potential for it |
| 07:36.41 | dRbiG | like a memory leaking app locked in ram... bye bye |
| 07:37.02 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@nat/nokia/x-jdpipprryandffsx) |
| 07:37.34 | raster | kwtm: not swapnice - not prioritising swapping in and out |
| 07:37.40 | raster | but there is a way to NOT swap ever |
| 07:37.44 | raster | mlock |
| 07:37.49 | raster | or mlockall() to be specific |
| 07:37.49 | jacekowski | i just said tht |
| 07:37.54 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 07:37.55 | dRbiG | or disable swap |
| 07:38.04 | raster | jav was getting to the mlockall bit :) |
| 07:38.05 | kwtm | raster: Oh, sorry .. mlock is a command-line command, or a C library function? My impression was the latter. |
| 07:38.12 | raster | csystem call |
| 07:38.15 | raster | (c lib func) |
| 07:38.19 | raster | the process has to call it |
| 07:38.22 | raster | ie u dant do it |
| 07:38.26 | raster | well actually |
| 07:38.27 | raster | i lie |
| 07:38.31 | jacekowski | you can do it with gdb |
| 07:38.33 | raster | u could use an ld_preload |
| 07:38.34 | raster | :) |
| 07:38.35 | *** join/#maemo jreznik (~jreznik@36.173.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 07:38.38 | jacekowski | or ptrace |
| 07:38.38 | raster | yes |
| 07:38.39 | raster | or gdb |
| 07:38.40 | raster | :) |
| 07:38.42 | raster | yes |
| 07:38.50 | raster | but now we're getting silly :) |
| 07:38.57 | kwtm | Okay, from the point of a C language klutz, could I instead assign more memory to RAM and less to the virtual disk? I mean, the N900 has THIRTY-TWO gigs of RAM, and all but less than a gig goes to virtual disk!? |
| 07:39.14 | jacekowski | kwtm: no it doesn't |
| 07:39.16 | raster | no it doesnt |
| 07:39.20 | jacekowski | kwtm: n900 has only 256M of ram |
| 07:39.25 | raster | it has 256m of ram |
| 07:39.27 | raster | hahaha |
| 07:39.38 | raster | there's an echo in here |
| 07:39.39 | raster | :) |
| 07:39.46 | kwtm | Wow, I'm getting answers in stereo. :) But it only confirms that you two are right --please go on. |
| 07:39.56 | jacekowski | kwtm: that 32G is just an eMMC |
| 07:39.59 | raster | turn off swap |
| 07:40.03 | jacekowski | kwtm: flash memory |
| 07:40.05 | raster | and it'll work better |
| 07:40.08 | jacekowski | kwtm: it's really slow |
| 07:40.15 | raster | thats your user clutz control |
| 07:40.17 | kwtm | Awww... 32G of snail-RAM!? Geez... |
| 07:40.22 | jacekowski | kwtm: it's not a ram |
| 07:40.24 | raster | its not ram |
| 07:40.27 | raster | its disk |
| 07:40.38 | jacekowski | kwtm: it's like a soldered on memory card |
| 07:40.54 | raster | (well nand flash behind an mmc wear leveling controller soldered onto the board as a chip and wired up to the emmc interface) |
| 07:40.56 | jacekowski | kwtm: same like the one you can change yourself |
| 07:41.02 | raster | err emmc interface |
| 07:41.06 | kwtm | No wonder I'm swapping! My drug info itself is 11Gig... |
| 07:41.07 | raster | mmc |
| 07:41.08 | raster | bah |
| 07:41.28 | jacekowski | kwtm: that has nothing to do with it |
| 07:41.35 | raster | n900 comes with 768m partition of disk AVAILABLe for swap |
| 07:41.36 | kwtm | Not that I mind vim swapping the text file. But ... 256M ram... I am so disappointed... |
| 07:41.41 | raster | it can be turned on and off |
| 07:41.54 | raster | this allows ram to be written out to flash (disk) when its not used much |
| 07:41.55 | jacekowski | kwtm: that's more than any other phone on the market |
| 07:42.03 | kwtm | raster: Please tell me the Samsung Linux Phone has at least 1G of RAM. Like, *real* RAM.... |
| 07:42.03 | raster | to make room for new data that needs active ram |
| 07:42.07 | jacekowski | kwtm: up until couple months ago |
| 07:42.13 | jacekowski | kwtm: because new iphone has 512M |
| 07:42.14 | raster | swap is LOTs LOTS LOTs LOTs slower than ram |
| 07:42.24 | jacekowski | kwtm: nope it doesn't |
| 07:42.26 | raster | like 100's of times slower |
| 07:42.47 | raster | ram is costly |
| 07:42.50 | kwtm | jacekowski: Oh, are you on the Samsung Linux Phone team, too? Great! |
| 07:42.51 | raster | it makes the phone more expensive |
| 07:42.56 | raster | but it also makes power drain worse |
| 07:42.59 | jacekowski | kwtm: no but i read the news |
| 07:43.06 | jacekowski | kwtm: it's not yet released |
| 07:43.12 | raster | jacekowski: whatever we have wont be in the news :) |
| 07:43.16 | jacekowski | kwtm: so it's just all marketing |
| 07:43.23 | kwtm | raster: "More expensive"!? I paid 3 times the cost for the N900 compared to the other dummfones --it had BETTER have a bit more RAM in it! :P |
| 07:43.27 | raster | or marketing |
| 07:43.30 | kwtm | oh, baby crying b ack soon |
| 07:43.31 | jacekowski | kwtm: n900 was designed over year ago |
| 07:43.40 | raster | kwtm: n900 is cheapish |
| 07:43.48 | raster | $500 or so is good |
| 07:43.54 | jacekowski | kwtm: and had 3-4 times more ram than any other phone |
| 07:43.58 | jacekowski | kwtm: at the time |
| 07:44.00 | raster | dumbphones will still cost $200 or so |
| 07:46.22 | raster | i've seen enough dumbphones cost > $1000 |
| 07:46.37 | jacekowski | sat dumbphones? |
| 07:46.40 | raster | no |
| 07:46.52 | raster | just overpriced trendy ones |
| 07:47.31 | raster | and just after release |
| 07:48.01 | Myrtti | Nokia 5230's are a tad over 100⬠in Finland |
| 07:48.13 | Myrtti | they're crappy, plastic but in theory they're smartphones |
| 07:48.15 | dRbiG | gosh, i guess that if you wanted a fancy phone you should've went with an iphone |
| 07:48.21 | dRbiG | its fancy, it works |
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| 07:49.56 | dRbiG | you can buy a shitload of apps for it and if they happen not to work you always have the right to complain |
| 07:50.01 | dRbiG | :) |
| 07:50.57 | raster | i wouldnt spend $1k on a dumbphone |
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| 07:51.11 | jacekowski | raster: sat phone |
| 07:51.22 | raster | wouldnt buy one of them either |
| 07:51.23 | raster | :) |
| 07:52.03 | ruskie | fun flasher doesn't want to flash my device |
| 07:53.43 | rmrfchik | damn, recaller still wash away widgets from desktop |
| 07:54.02 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 07:54.21 | rmrfchik | and in PR1.3 ringtond (from custom ringtones) used to die. |
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| 07:56.18 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: just flash whole image |
| 07:56.23 | ebzzry | ruskie: I always get "SSL connection timeout" errors |
| 07:56.27 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: or flash device specific version |
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| 07:56.39 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: i'm not sure which version of phone you've got |
| 07:56.47 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: i've got a pre-production model. |
| 07:57.15 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: HWID: 2001 Build: F4 |
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| 08:03.12 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: hmm, that's a bit tricky then |
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| 08:04.10 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: i couldn't find _any_ source describing the pre-production models, neither do i know _anything_ about that cryptic bootloader scheme, so i have no idea which parts and why might i need to flash. |
| 08:04.37 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: why aren't you flashing full fiasco image? |
| 08:05.12 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: i can't because the bootloader parts do not match some "versions" or something like that. |
| 08:05.28 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: You need a legacy image then. |
| 08:05.28 | jacekowski | ah |
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| 08:05.47 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: As your contact at nokia for that? |
| 08:06.00 | PaulFertser | X-Fade: i want to be on the PR1.3, not on the legacy image |
| 08:06.19 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: You have a legacy device, you need PR1.3 legacy. |
| 08:06.30 | jacekowski | X-Fade: you can leave old bootloader |
| 08:06.36 | jacekowski | and just flash rootfs |
| 08:06.41 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: That is a different fiasco packaged for legacy devices. |
| 08:06.42 | jacekowski | and possibly rapuyama |
| 08:06.53 | PaulFertser | X-Fade: why do you think there exist any? Also i'm told this particular version is not far from the production models (probably nothing different at all). |
| 08:06.55 | X-Fade | Yeah, that too. But there is an easy solution too ;) |
| 08:07.02 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: I run it :) |
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| 08:07.04 | ruskie | ebzzry, hmm tried opening it in a browser? |
| 08:07.14 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: just flash rootfs |
| 08:07.16 | PaulFertser | X-Fade: eh, sorry, what do you run? |
| 08:07.18 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: and see how it goes |
| 08:07.24 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: it may work |
| 08:07.27 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: what about the kernel? |
| 08:07.30 | jacekowski | and kernel |
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| 08:07.39 | jacekowski | kernel and rootfs |
| 08:07.43 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: that's exactly what i did. |
| 08:07.47 | jacekowski | and leave rapyuama and bootloader intact |
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| 08:07.51 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: does it work? |
| 08:08.22 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: at least i see no oddities. But since pr1.3 has other parts bundled, that made me wonder why they included those. |
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| 08:08.52 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: they always do |
| 08:09.10 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: fiasco image can be used for coldflash of dead device |
| 08:09.13 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: always reflash bootloader even if there're no changes and zero need? |
| 08:09.28 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: they sometimes fix some bugs |
| 08:09.39 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: that's exactly what i'm worried about. |
| 08:09.44 | jacekowski | like 1.2 bootloader had blocked hardware encryption acceleration |
| 08:09.47 | ebzzry | ruskie: Yes, but the page doesn't load. |
| 08:09.53 | PaulFertser | (that my old BL version has some unfixed bugs) |
| 08:09.59 | jacekowski | but as far as i looked at new and old bootloder |
| 08:10.05 | jacekowski | there is nothing there |
| 08:10.12 | ebzzry | ruskie: Do you have a .deb of curl instead? |
| 08:10.44 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: are you a community member with some nice reversing skills or do you have some information from nokia? |
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| 08:11.43 | ebzzry | ruskie: Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer |
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| 08:16.07 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: nah, i reversed it myself |
| 08:17.30 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: that's rather cool. Do you think it might make sense that you share some of your knowledge so that proper support of backing up (and flashing from the device) kernel would be added to 0xFFFF (as it doesn't seem to be functional now). |
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| 08:19.44 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: i could |
| 08:19.58 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: but it's complicated from legal side |
| 08:20.10 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: i mean e.g. debian folks would be glad to be able to reflash the kernel. |
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| 08:20.59 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: isn't it legal if you just outline some "specs" and e.g. i provide a patch for 0xffff? |
| 08:21.01 | jacekowski | who's the person writing 0xffff? |
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| 08:21.12 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: i can't write ANY code for it to be legal |
| 08:21.19 | ebzzry | ruskie: ? |
| 08:21.33 | jacekowski | specs are only acceptable way |
| 08:21.34 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: so do not write it, just write some specs. |
| 08:22.04 | jacekowski | and even then it's scratching surface of copyright breach |
| 08:22.08 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: "pancake" is the author, whoever that is. |
| 08:22.45 | jacekowski | but i personally don't get idea why rewrite something that's working |
| 08:22.46 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: i do not think memory layout and stuff like that (header etc) can be copyrighted at all. |
| 08:23.07 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: but software itself is copyrighted |
| 08:23.28 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: well, the thing is: it doesn't work. I do not know any way to backup currently used kernel. And i know no way to flash the kernel in some, say post-inst script for a debian package. |
| 08:23.32 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: and writing same software based on reverse engineered software is very illegal |
| 08:23.52 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: and doing it by passing specs between person doing RE and writing code |
| 08:23.53 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: software is copyrighted but as long as you do not post some disassembled source, you're not breaching anything afaict |
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| 08:24.05 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: is just moving it from very illegal to barely legal |
| 08:24.19 | RST38h | sighs |
| 08:24.34 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: there're plenty of examples when people did that (clean-room reimplementation) and nobody ever complained. |
| 08:24.37 | RST38h | Have we got two uberlawyers in the room, gentlemen? =) |
| 08:24.51 | jacekowski | nope |
| 08:25.03 | _trine | Philadelphia lawyers I think |
| 08:25.18 | PaulFertser | RST38h: do you know a way to flash a new kernel automatically after apt-get upgrade on the device? |
| 08:25.20 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: anyways, thing is that you can get kernel directly from mtd |
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| 08:25.28 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: yes |
| 08:25.31 | jacekowski | PaulFertser: nokia flasher |
| 08:25.39 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: doesn't work for _debian_.. |
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| 08:26.29 | jacekowski | but i think on device flasher works differently to usb flasher |
| 08:27.14 | RST38h | Paul: I do not, but it is possible apparently |
| 08:27.22 | RST38h | Paul: PR1.2 did it, afaik |
| 08:27.25 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: (dump from mtd) for that i'd need to know the right offsets and header format (how much should i dump). And for flashing one should provide some data structures so the bootloader would be happy. |
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| 08:27.48 | RST38h | After it restarted the device, it showed a slightly different Nokia logo and a progress bar underneath |
| 08:27.53 | PaulFertser | RST38h: not in a way suitable for Debian, as they've used the proprietary nokia flasher. |
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| 08:28.03 | RST38h | Screw Debian |
| 08:28.11 | RST38h | You are using Maemo not Debian |
| 08:28.25 | PaulFertser | But i care about those who does use Debian. |
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| 08:28.39 | PaulFertser | And i care for functional 0xFFFF. |
| 08:29.00 | Venemo_N900 | does ringtoned work on PR 1.3? |
| 08:29.10 | RST38h | Well, then you can continue caring about those who use Debian and their funny legal issues |
| 08:29.33 | PaulFertser | RST38h: btw, i think that the logo and "progress bar" come from some other parts, not from the kernel. |
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| 08:29.53 | jacekowski | hmm that's possible |
| 08:30.00 | RST38h | Paul: I think they come from some flasher program that PR install has scheduled to run at startup and update the kernel |
| 08:30.02 | jacekowski | that flasher writes kernel to some staging area |
| 08:30.26 | jacekowski | and nolo flashes it to wherever required |
| 08:31.08 | PaulFertser | RST38h: please notice how that's _you_ calling things that are very important for many honourable people "funny legal issues". |
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| 08:31.41 | Stskeeps | are we talking about debian-legal being honourable people? ;) |
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| 08:32.05 | jacekowski | because these are funny legal issues |
| 08:33.32 | PaulFertser | Guys, i came to get some support wrt bootloader. Not to be bullied again for being (relatively) sane and honest. |
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| 08:34.57 | jacekowski | thing is that we don't believe that debian-legal issues are sane |
| 08:35.28 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: Why don't you take my advice and ask your contact at Nokia for a PR1.3 legacy image. |
| 08:35.38 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: A lot easier and it will work :) |
| 08:36.12 | PaulFertser | jacekowski: you're dragging me into a conversation about "this world is so insane that you even can not notice it anymore" etc etc. Sorry, i'd prefer to discuss specs or mtd layout or anything not so flamous. |
| 08:36.40 | PaulFertser | X-Fade: i have no contact at Nokia, only Quim, but he doesn't seem to be knowledgeable about BLs. |
| 08:37.18 | Stskeeps | just say 'firmware image matching the prototype, ie, a LEGACY image' and he'd probably know what to do.. |
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| 08:37.35 | PaulFertser | Stskeeps: i guess he'll get me the original pre-MP image if i ask him. |
| 08:37.54 | PaulFertser | Stskeeps: also it makes zero sense to bother him about full image when i only need some _info_ about the bootloader. |
| 08:37.56 | X-Fade | PaulFertser: No, he is not dumb ;) This is a well known thing inside. |
| 08:38.29 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: well, the legacy has bootloader/cmt support for those particular hardwares |
| 08:38.35 | X-Fade | Anyway, good luck ;) |
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| 08:39.00 | PaulFertser | X-Fade: i never implied he's dumb. I'm sure he's not. But i hasn't seen a single line of code from him either. |
| 08:39.10 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: and easiest way to get those is well, asking for a legacy image |
| 08:39.10 | Stskeeps | :P |
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| 08:40.58 | PaulFertser | goes back to playing with fucking musb hardware state machine |
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| 08:50.00 | iksaif | anyone with some time to test an app ? lugdulov (0.3, in extra-dev, need PR 1.3) seems to crash on some devices, but I can't reproduce it. If anyone could reproduce that and give me a backtrace it would be great ! |
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| 08:53.08 | PaulFertser | iksaif: let me try |
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| 08:54.53 | PaulFertser | iksaif: yes, reproduced here. |
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| 08:55.02 | PaulFertser | iksaif: i'll provide you with BT soon. |
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| 08:55.34 | Coke | Hey guys. Trying to get the latest update in, but it says I need some PC suite yada. I'm on 64-bit linux so that shit ain't gonna happen, how do I get past this backup nonsense? |
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| 08:55.57 | Coke | Is there a workaround or can I just ignore all future upgrades? |
| 08:56.34 | iksaif | PaulFertser: thanks :) |
| 08:56.35 | PaulFertser | iksaif: here it is: http://paste.debian.net/98584/ |
| 08:57.27 | Coke | Reading forums I see mixed replies. Some say it has to do with rootfs being full, uninstall all custom apps and continue from there. Some other says there's no need and that it "just worked" without PC suite and backups. |
| 08:57.39 | iksaif | hum this seems to come from QtLocation/liblocation |
| 08:57.52 | iksaif | PaulFertser: could you send me a dpkg -l | grep -i location ? |
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| 08:58.54 | PaulFertser | iksaif: http://paste.debian.net/98586/ |
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| 09:00.37 | iksaif | hum, same version :/ |
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| 09:00.58 | PaulFertser | iksaif: bike sharing? sounds interesting :) |
| 09:01.57 | iksaif | yeah .. but also sounds broken :p |
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| 09:02.24 | iksaif | but bike sharing like "city bike sharing services", most big cities have one |
| 09:03.39 | PaulFertser | iksaif: hey, i started "nokia maps" and then lugdulov and it didn't segfault this time. |
| 09:04.40 | iksaif | yep ... this seems to be a bug related to QtLocation / liblocation |
| 09:04.56 | iksaif | but I don't know why it works on my device :/ |
| 09:05.15 | frals | Coke: it should say what the update conflicts with if you click details |
| 09:05.47 | Coke | i dont have that option |
| 09:05.52 | Coke | I only have "Create backup" or cancel |
| 09:06.03 | PaulFertser | iksaif: after stopping nokia maps same sefgault. |
| 09:06.07 | Coke | wait. I uninstalled all extra apps and it actually continues |
| 09:06.15 | frals | cancel it and go to app manager and long tap on the update -> details |
| 09:06.20 | Coke | What is the disk size on the N900, less than 2Gb ? |
| 09:06.28 | Coke | 1? |
| 09:06.37 | frals | df -h will tell you |
| 09:06.49 | frals | 256mb rootfs or something, 2gb /opt, i *think* |
| 09:07.09 | Coke | Hm, no wonder it's such a pain, only 256m |
| 09:07.27 | Coke | well, I just uninstalled everything not necessary |
| 09:07.31 | iksaif | PaulFertser: do you have any other app using qtm-location ? |
| 09:07.32 | Coke | Seems to be downloading OK now. |
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| 09:07.49 | PaulFertser | iksaif: i've no idea :) |
| 09:07.54 | PaulFertser | iksaif: btw, can this be related: http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?202073-Mobility-location-in-Maemo-not-working ? |
| 09:08.40 | Coke | frals: any easy way of increasing the rootfs size? |
| 09:09.10 | iksaif | PaulFertser: the backtrace looks the same, but the issue wasn't here on PR 1.2 :/ |
| 09:09.36 | frals | Coke: unless you want to resolder a new nand chip, i dont think so? could probably hack around it with mountpoints, i think theres a wiki page about it |
| 09:10.09 | Coke | frals: nah. i guess i'll just have to get used to not having apps on it |
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| 09:10.23 | Coke | I guess the old iPhone4 mantra "it has apps" is finally paying of for the Apple fanboys |
| 09:10.46 | PaulFertser | iksaif: still that discussion looks related. Well, i'm open to do more tests, feel free to ping me. |
| 09:11.14 | iksaif | ok thanks |
| 09:11.51 | Coke | frals: hm, perhaps I can simply change the place where dpkg puts cached packages |
| 09:12.38 | frals | Coke: most apps should be installed to /opt/ so its not really an issue |
| 09:12.48 | frals | unless someone fucked up, but then it shouldnt be in extras/ovi :p |
| 09:12.56 | frals | and if its not in extras/ovi its not supproted, etc ;) |
| 09:13.08 | Coke | frals: i use extras |
| 09:13.16 | Coke | but I just assume they use /opt as well |
| 09:13.34 | Coke | OVI, I wouldn't touch it. |
| 09:13.51 | Coke | Having a full linux system on your phone and still insisting on running non-free apps just seems counter productive to me. :) |
| 09:14.52 | Coke | the package manager is getting on my last nerve tho. never seen a system with so few packages installed so incredibly slow. not sure if it's a problem with the disk or if someone put sleep(3000) syscall in some loop |
| 09:15.03 | iksaif | PaulFertser: just a question, before the crash: do you see any gps related message ? is the icon blinjing ? |
| 09:15.24 | PaulFertser | iksaif: i'm not looking at the screen, i'm using ssh over wifi :) |
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| 09:15.34 | frals | Coke: if you have some experience using debian id suggest using apt instead, thats what i do :P |
| 09:15.59 | PaulFertser | iksaif: this might give more clues: http://paste.debian.net/98587/ |
| 09:16.27 | Coke | frals: is it faster than the app manager? |
| 09:16.53 | Coke | frals: and, yes, while we are trying to migrate away from debian here we still have two boxes. I was a devout Debian fan, maybe 4-5 years ago. |
| 09:16.55 | frals | yes, it skips a bunch of extra checks that ham does and well, you dont get the ui annoyance :P |
| 09:17.12 | sivang | morning all |
| 09:17.39 | iksaif | PaulFertser: thanks, I'll try to investigate using your bt |
| 09:17.44 | sivang | hey frals, others |
| 09:18.36 | Coke | frals: luckily, Maemo only use the package manager, not the package maintainers. :) |
| 09:18.53 | sivang | Coke: is this about the PR1.3 conflict upgrade? |
| 09:19.03 | Coke | sivang: i think that's taken care of, actually. |
| 09:19.04 | sivang | apologizes to jump into the discussion |
| 09:19.08 | Coke | I just uninstalled everything I had installed from extra |
| 09:19.09 | sivang | Coke: It was? |
| 09:19.28 | Coke | sivang: yes. I pressume I just had to free up some rootfs space |
| 09:19.30 | sivang | Coke: and it work? I hear a lot of reports about 1.3 breaking many things so I was a bit scared to try it |
| 09:19.38 | Coke | sivang: Oh, it isn't finished yet |
| 09:19.50 | Coke | Even though it's upgrading, the package system is just horribly slow |
| 09:20.02 | sivang | Coke: there was reported to be a conflicting packages, qt tests something etc. |
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| 09:20.09 | Coke | Been about 30 minutes of just "checking for updates", "downloading" and "installing" |
| 09:20.12 | sivang | Coke: I forgot what it was but lbt_ had to remove it to have it run |
| 09:20.23 | lbt_ | mmm |
| 09:20.28 | Coke | sivang: ill continue to install and get back to you in like 30 minutes with the results |
| 09:20.36 | lbt_ | ah |
| 09:20.38 | lbt_ | gltron |
| 09:20.39 | sivang | Coke: Yes, same here, I just stopped it in the middle reading the comments on #maemo about what upgrade did to several folks, I'll wait for a fix |
| 09:21.08 | lbt_ | a recent post on maemo-planet found some others |
| 09:21.21 | sivang | lbt_: I would say we should have a page on the wiki with all pitfalls of the upgrade and strong warning |
| 09:21.48 | sivang | lbt_: just because the update manager blinks that yellow icon does not mean peeople should blindly upgrade I guess :) |
| 09:22.20 | lbt_ | well, it should also report the apps that depend on things that conflict :) |
| 09:22.22 | sivang | lbt_: like https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11480 |
| 09:22.23 | povbot | Bug 11480: PR1.3 broke libclutter-1.4, bug in file libGLESv2.so |
| 09:23.03 | lbt_ | one should be able to do a root-cause (in deb-land) as you have the concept of 'auto-installed-to-satisfy-dependencies' |
| 09:23.04 | chem|st | Coke: I got 100+ apps installed and 68.8MB 69%used at / |
| 09:23.08 | sivang | lbt_: yes, or those that are going to possibly 'break' |
| 09:23.25 | sivang | lbt_: I hope this will be better for MeeGo |
| 09:23.39 | sivang | adds HAM to discussion points at talk |
| 09:23.54 | lbt_ | sivang: not sure ... but the feature is important |
| 09:24.05 | chem|st | Coke: unoptified devel will fill that up pretty fast sure |
| 09:24.12 | lbt_ | of coursr meego compliance means that apps can't have deps |
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| 09:24.28 | lbt_ | so the app mgr doesn't have to deal with them |
| 09:24.31 | lbt_ | so it won't |
| 09:24.38 | lbt_ | so it'll all break horribly |
| 09:24.44 | sivang | interesting |
| 09:24.45 | lbt_ | is such a realist ;) |
| 09:24.49 | X-Fade | Yeah, that is bad/sad. |
| 09:24.49 | sivang | lbt_: hehe |
| 09:25.04 | chem|st | lbt_: it does in info (tell what conflicts) |
| 09:25.07 | sivang | X-Fade: At least it will *prevent* release managers from releasing breaking/broken stuff |
| 09:25.21 | sivang | or at least, so I hope. |
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| 09:26.20 | sivang | It is getting harder and harder to defend Maemo/N900 with this sort of things happening. My N900 fan boss recently left for iPhone... he said "I need a phone that works". :-/ |
| 09:26.43 | PaulFertser | iksaif: heh, is that liblocation0 proprietary? |
| 09:26.54 | sivang | anyway- enough ranting, on to productive work! |
| 09:27.09 | sivang | is sure 1.3 will get some maintainance fixes soon |
| 09:27.26 | Robot101 | lbt_: meego... apps... no... deps... what?! |
| 09:27.35 | sivang | when they will be out, I'll tell him to upgrade- he waits for my word on it and my half educated advice was to wait with it, given the reports |
| 09:27.42 | Robot101 | lbt_: because that works so well on macos? |
| 09:27.44 | sivang | Robot101: Surprised as you |
| 09:27.56 | lbt_ | Robot101: read the backlog... :) |
| 09:28.00 | lbt_ | oh |
| 09:28.04 | lbt_ | you mean compliance? |
| 09:28.13 | sivang | lbt_: so everything has to be slef contained and use only what's already installed on the device? |
| 09:28.23 | lbt_ | yeah... you can only depend on stuff on the device |
| 09:28.30 | Stskeeps | if you want to be compliant.. |
| 09:28.30 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:28.32 | lbt_ | which means theres' no conflicts |
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| 09:28.35 | Stskeeps | doesn't mean it doesn't work |
| 09:28.35 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:28.44 | X-Fade | So you can have 20 times the same lib on your device. :) |
| 09:28.56 | lbt_ | and no conflict resolution required for an app-mgr that only deals with "compliant" apps :) |
| 09:29.01 | PaulFertser | RST38h: now you might want to explain to iksaif how to debug a segfault inside a library for which "apt-get source" doesn't work. :| |
| 09:29.01 | frals | uh, what kind of issues with 1.3? not encountered any at all since i installed it |
| 09:29.02 | lbt_ | which is what the feature will be |
| 09:29.13 | lbt_ | so the bug fixes will be marked "wishlist" |
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| 09:30.09 | lbt_ | Robot101, Stskeeps... at least, I can see that as being a knock-on effect of the compliance issue. |
| 09:30.26 | sivang | X-Fade: why 20 times? |
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| 09:30.46 | X-Fade | sivang: Each app has to pack it's own 3rd partly libs then. |
| 09:30.55 | lcuk | will we see soft dependencies and dlsym! |
| 09:31.07 | lcuk | ? even |
| 09:31.07 | sivang | hmm.... feels like, feels like..... Symbian? :-P |
| 09:31.12 | X-Fade | sivang: So if you have something that is really common, but not in meego, you will have it a lot of times on device. |
| 09:31.47 | sivang | X-Fade: and then rootfs will be out of space and I will need to do manual seasoned linux admin space freeing? |
| 09:31.53 | sivang | nice :) |
| 09:32.21 | X-Fade | sivang: Well, I guess that app storage and root will be separated. If they have thought it through ;) |
| 09:32.32 | sivang | X-Fade: Can this be made sure? |
| 09:32.43 | X-Fade | Don't look at me ;) |
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| 09:33.11 | lbt_ | there are definite +ves to having a category of "will work" apps... the problem is that the wording is hugely antagonistic to all other categories |
| 09:33.42 | sivang | well, at least this means we still have a world of work to do :) |
| 09:34.11 | lbt_ | it strongly suggests that all othe apps are "not meego compliant" ... when a marketing/product manager sees that they will immediately dismiss such apps. |
| 09:34.26 | PaulFertser | iksaif: in fact i'm not fair enough, it seems its QtMobility::LiblocationWrapper::start gives wrong address (0x08) to gpsd_start. |
| 09:34.26 | lbt_ | and *that* screws the pooch |
| 09:34.42 | PaulFertser | iksaif: to location_gpsd_control_start |
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| 09:37.20 | sivang | lbt: right |
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| 09:38.10 | sivang | lbt: and for an app to be deemed compliant it has to pass the compliance tests as in the acceptance testing of images? |
| 09:38.31 | sivang | lbt: or just be scanned for its deps, and rejected if deps are outside of system's runime? |
| 09:38.35 | sivang | *runtime |
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| 09:39.14 | Jucato | is there a sort of recovery (terminal) mode for the n900? :D |
| 09:39.38 | X-Fade | sivang: That depends, but checking deps is easy. |
| 09:39.43 | sivang | X-Fade: true |
| 09:39.48 | sivang | moves this to #meego-dev |
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| 09:40.30 | sivang | err, to #meego, preferably |
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| 09:41.44 | chem|st | does for anyone the automatic time update work? my clock is about 7minutes ahead |
| 09:42.08 | phellarv | chem|st: ntpdate? |
| 09:42.12 | phellarv | or ntpd |
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| 09:42.55 | jacekowski | chem|st: use gps |
| 09:43.09 | sivang | frals: there were some |
| 09:43.25 | sivang | frals: messaging ui borking, clutter stuff, broken deps :) |
| 09:43.56 | chem|st | jacekowski: how does the clock automatic update work without gps? |
| 09:44.00 | sivang | Sabach El Noor MohammadAG :) |
| 09:44.13 | MohammadAG | morning sivang :) |
| 09:44.18 | sivang | MohammadAG: although it is almost noon :) |
| 09:44.30 | MohammadAG | it's IRC, isn't it :) |
| 09:44.36 | sivang | it is :) |
| 09:44.50 | tybollt | hmm |
| 09:44.57 | jacekowski | chem|st: it doesn't |
| 09:45.04 | jacekowski | chem|st: it needs gsp |
| 09:45.12 | chem|st | jacekowski: so only gps... |
| 09:45.18 | tybollt | anyone successfully sent contacts via sms from N900 to a android phone? |
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| 09:45.43 | chem|st | well my last use was about 6 days ago makes 1 minute off a day |
| 09:46.08 | PaulFertser | iksaif: the problem is rather somewhere in QtMobility::LiblocationWrapper that supplies some wrong pointer instead of the result of the liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default() |
| 09:46.54 | chem|st | tybollt: nope |
| 09:47.16 | chem|st | tybollt: but afair BT did work |
| 09:47.22 | tybollt | olrite |
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| 09:47.29 | PaulFertser | iksaif: in fact liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default is not getting called at all. |
| 09:48.07 | tybollt | I sent this contact to missus android several times - every single sms was received (receive verification) but she says her phone didn't receive anything... |
| 09:48.10 | tybollt | weird |
| 09:48.35 | chem|st | tybollt: don't know realy but I think it is an android problem as you send std vcards with n900 |
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| 09:49.52 | chem|st | tybollt: have you tried detail and card? |
| 09:50.15 | tybollt | probably android |
| 09:50.43 | tybollt | I bet; the vcard is detected and redirected verbatim by Googlers to googlers. |
| 09:50.49 | chem|st | as detail sends maximum a single sms but card might be 2 |
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| 09:51.03 | chem|st | tybollt: google it ;) |
| 09:52.28 | PaulFertser | iksaif: do you like this trick? ;) http://paste.debian.net/98596/ |
| 09:54.55 | chem|st | jacekowski: ok gps is on and time is still ahead (for minutes), is there a way to trigger it? |
| 09:56.07 | jacekowski | it should update as soon as it gets lock |
| 09:56.42 | chem|st | ok then there is something wrong! |
| 09:57.23 | chem|st | I tried Nokia maps, gps-testing env from nokia, gpsjini and so on... |
| 09:57.33 | chem|st | 12:04 still |
| 09:58.22 | ieatlint | the phone can update its clock via gps? |
| 09:58.27 | lcuk | o_O tracy just came to me after a google image search for "scary pumpkin faces" with a really dodgy site from the !first! image result o_O |
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| 09:59.06 | ieatlint | i didn't know it had support for using that... awesome |
| 09:59.15 | ieatlint | thought it could only use the cell tower's clock |
| 09:59.29 | chem|st | ieatlint: no it cant! grml |
| 10:00.12 | chem|st | ieatlint: cell tower would be a good idea but mine does not update anything... I am 7 minutes off and dont know why |
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| 10:00.35 | ieatlint | well, i know it works with the cell tower |
| 10:00.50 | ieatlint | perhaps your cell tower is 7 minutes off, heh |
| 10:01.53 | chem|st | just trying that... but a friend of mine, about 400m away has exact time |
| 10:02.25 | chem|st | ok time is not getting updated at all |
| 10:02.36 | chem|st | set to 11:57 now |
| 10:02.38 | ieatlint | huh, well, i can find nothing that supports the idea that maemo 5 does support updating system time from gps |
| 10:02.53 | PaulFertser | iksaif: do you ever call QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo::init ? |
| 10:03.15 | ieatlint | but apparently ntp is in the repos, and it's definitely possible to find or write an app that will get a gps lock and set the time from it |
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| 10:03.36 | ieatlint | if you have data, ntp is easier/faster/more reliable |
| 10:03.49 | ieatlint | (by reliable, i mean you can't always get a gps lock) |
| 10:03.57 | iksaif | PaulFertser: sorry I was afk |
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| 10:05.42 | iksaif | PaulFertser: this function should by called by QtMobility |
| 10:05.55 | iksaif | all I do is ask QtLocation for the default localisation device |
| 10:06.38 | ieatlint | PaulFertser: i'm curious, you reference QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo::init ... i've been using qtmobility 1.0 on the n900, and there is no maemo specific class to my knowledge (and QGeoPositionInfoSource has no init() method) |
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| 10:07.38 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: hm, so that might well be the reason. |
| 10:07.59 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: look at http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/src/location/qgeopositioninfosource.cpp |
| 10:08.02 | ieatlint | i'm pulling up the qtmobility 1.1 docs... suppose i should be looking at them now |
| 10:08.10 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: nah, the source is better ;) |
| 10:08.18 | ieatlint | hah, right :P |
| 10:08.26 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, pin |
| 10:08.27 | MohammadAG | g |
| 10:08.30 | ieatlint | anywhere in particular in that file? |
| 10:08.50 | iksaif | PaulFertser: qt-mobility git is 1.2, maemo use 1.0.2 |
| 10:08.53 | ieatlint | ah, i see it referencing QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo |
| 10:08.53 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: pong |
| 10:09.04 | PaulFertser | iksaif: too bad for maemo :) |
| 10:09.24 | ieatlint | i'd guess that's the maemo implementation for qtmobility location services... |
| 10:09.40 | ieatlint | meant to be only used by qtmobility, and not by app devs |
| 10:09.44 | iksaif | I should fill a bug report, but first I need to be able to reproduce the issue on a small test case |
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| 10:10.08 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, I got the repository set up, but HAM's ignoring community-ssu-enabler |
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| 10:10.17 | iksaif | and I'm not able to reproduce the crash on lugdulov .. maybe you have some special settings for your gps? |
| 10:10.22 | PaulFertser | iksaif: the strange thing is that some other apps (maemo maps) are able to somehow influence this process and they call proper functions. |
| 10:10.28 | PaulFertser | iksaif: not that i know of. |
| 10:10.38 | DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn |
| 10:10.38 | infobot | i guess xyawn is big coffee |
| 10:10.46 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Is it in a user/* section? |
| 10:10.52 | iksaif | time to eat, be back later |
| 10:11.14 | MohammadAG | Section: user/system |
| 10:11.20 | MohammadAG | not that it should matter |
| 10:11.39 | ieatlint | PaulFertser: ah, i actually only just now scrolled up to see the full details of what you're talking about |
| 10:11.42 | MohammadAG | it says ignoring version from wrong domain |
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| 10:12.20 | ieatlint | you're issue is that on maemo5, sometimes using qtm-location will cause a segfault, sometimes it will never launch liblocation and even try to get a lock, and sometimes it will work perfectly |
| 10:12.27 | ieatlint | right? |
| 10:12.37 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, can you see if the .install file works for you? |
| 10:12.46 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: not exactly, iksaif wrote an app on his own that tries to use location services. |
| 10:13.25 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: the 1.0 branch looks the same |
| 10:14.01 | ieatlint | any of that match? |
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| 10:14.48 | chem|st | openntp installed... |
| 10:14.51 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: hm, what do you mean? |
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| 10:16.08 | ieatlint | i mean when you try to get a lock, with QGeoPositionSource::createDefaultSource() and then the startUpdates() method, it does not reliably start the gps device |
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| 10:18.02 | jarkkom | hmm, that seems weird, I've written couple of apps and didn't see anything like that |
| 10:18.54 | ieatlint | were they tiny apps? |
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| 10:19.00 | jarkkom | though I had some interesting bugs when I was drawing map and GPS location fix too its time, apparently if you're drawing ellipse that is waaaaayyy offscreen device gets permanently stuck in QT rendering code :) |
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| 10:19.13 | jarkkom | because of uninitialized variables |
| 10:19.25 | ieatlint | ok, doesn't sound like it then, hehe |
| 10:19.44 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: looks like that, in the failing case the liblocation method to get default source is never called. |
| 10:20.03 | jarkkom | how are you initializing your positionsource though? |
| 10:20.11 | ieatlint | PaulFertser: ah.. well, i've had similar experience |
| 10:20.39 | jarkkom | I mean maybe if you give it a parent QObject that then gets deleted and location source gets deleted as well? |
| 10:20.43 | PaulFertser | jarkkom: localisation = QGeoPositionInfoSource::createDefaultSource(this); |
| 10:20.52 | jarkkom | yeah but what is "this" in that case? |
| 10:20.59 | PaulFertser | jarkkom: MainWindow |
| 10:21.06 | jarkkom | shouldn't be a problem then |
| 10:22.16 | PaulFertser | jarkkom: i'm telling you, i used gdb to place breakpoint on liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default and it's never called on the failing case. |
| 10:22.28 | ieatlint | jarkkom: http://pastebin.com/twaUnS5s is my test app |
| 10:22.37 | ieatlint | can provide the .h if you'd like |
| 10:22.52 | ieatlint | (and the project file and main.cpp) |
| 10:23.19 | PaulFertser | ieatlint: do you mean you can reproduce too? |
| 10:23.31 | ieatlint | PaulFertser: yes, but not always |
| 10:23.56 | ieatlint | i wrote an app, then tried to add a gps feature to it... and it would only work about half the time |
| 10:24.20 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 10:24.24 | ieatlint | so i took the gps code, and made that test app, that just starts the gps device and prints out the lat/lon it gets |
| 10:24.31 | ieatlint | to help with debugging |
| 10:25.30 | jarkkom | that code looks ok though |
| 10:25.31 | ieatlint | that app works for me about 80% of the time, and the other 20% it will never start location-daemon (and no gps icon appears in status bar). it will send "updates" from the gps -- but the QGeoPositionInfo is always empty |
| 10:26.01 | PaulFertser | jarkkom: probably LibLocationWrapper instance gets unreferenced somehow or something... |
| 10:26.23 | alterego | just found the stylesheet stuff in QML to allow you to theme stuff sort of natively :D |
| 10:27.22 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-29.log.html#t2010-10-29T07:20:54 +++ , anybody? |
| 10:27.30 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 10:27.34 | ieatlint | i haven't actually tested it since the pr1.3 update... but i know i was already running qtm-location 1.0.2, so i doubt anything was changed |
| 10:28.58 | Coke | sivang: still here? |
| 10:29.10 | Coke | sivang: the update was installed and after a reboot everything seems to work just fine. |
| 10:29.23 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: how to run it if the screen is locked? |
| 10:29.31 | Coke | sivang: at a glance, I would say that the update is safe. |
| 10:29.55 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: ah, nvm, but i'm not really on stock kernel though changes are minimal and unrelated. |
| 10:30.07 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: via ssh, or simply lock the screen after firing the cmd |
| 10:31.14 | MohammadAG | yay, two N8s incoming |
| 10:31.30 | MohammadAG | ponders taking the OTG adapter, his dad won't use it |
| 10:32.10 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 10:33.22 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: sorry, running a kernel modified enough here, i hope someone else will easily do that. |
| 10:33.56 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@bzq-79-181-37-161.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 10:34.09 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: do you care if the phone is not fully charged? |
| 10:34.31 | ieatlint | as in, plugged into wall charger; currently charging |
| 10:34.46 | *** join/#maemo pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@2.80.27.115) |
| 10:34.51 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: btw, looks like the command for boostoff i use is incorrect, it doesn't cut power immediately. |
| 10:34.58 | Coke | Is there some application similar to mirror that will allow me to record/snapshot/view from the front camera, but that does not require 22M of Python stuff? |
| 10:35.10 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 10:35.18 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: we seem to have confirmed plugging charger makes pr1.3 kernel run CPU @ 500MHz *all the time*, while PR1.2 kernel is ok |
| 10:36.44 | ieatlint | yes, my results support that |
| 10:37.26 | ieatlint | not charging, 94% at 250mhz, whereas when on wall charger, 99% at 500mhz |
| 10:37.40 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, isn't that the same but with a USB cable on PR1.2? |
| 10:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | esp 0% in C4 |
| 10:39.30 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@mm-6-130-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by) |
| 10:41.49 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: is this the same when connected on usb? |
| 10:42.11 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: I haven't tested yet |
| 10:45.26 | ieatlint | grabbed my usb cable, testing now |
| 10:47.04 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 10:47.08 | Venemo | hi guys |
| 10:47.33 | Venemo | how is it possible to make the tracker script not to index pictures in my .sounds folder on the N900? |
| 10:47.43 | Venemo | it annoys me to see the album arts in the photos app |
| 10:47.49 | MohammadAG | +1 on that |
| 10:48.01 | Venemo | :) |
| 10:48.01 | lcuk | in the tracker config you can blacklist folders |
| 10:48.10 | Venemo | ok, where's that config? |
| 10:48.17 | MohammadAG | but that blacklists all media from them lcuk |
| 10:48.22 | mgedmin | ~curse tracker |
| 10:48.22 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, tracker ! |
| 10:48.29 | Venemo | ~nuke tracker |
| 10:48.29 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at tracker ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 10:48.52 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 10:49.15 | mgedmin | sanest solution would be to have a .trackerignore in each directory, listing filename patterns |
| 10:49.20 | mgedmin | sort of like .gitignore |
| 10:49.27 | *** part/#maemo ham5 (~iamone@unaffiliated/ham5) |
| 10:49.31 | mgedmin | does VFAT support filenames that start with a dot? |
| 10:49.36 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 10:49.49 | lcuk | windows does not though! |
| 10:49.52 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: yeah... on usb, also appears to be always at 500mhz |
| 10:49.59 | ieatlint | identical to wall charger |
| 10:50.05 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: it's just 2(and a half) things I'm concerned about: it seems under PR1.3 kernel A) LiIon cell is kept floating at maximum charge voltage, which is said to kill the cell, and B) the CPU spinning empty at 500MHz, which according to Nokia HW guy (Igor?) is an absolute NoGo. Plus the half thing is about hostmode where this seems to bite us as well |
| 10:50.07 | Venemo | anyways, can I do this in a sane ways right now? |
| 10:50.12 | mgedmin | edits ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg |
| 10:50.48 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, so on a hostmode PR1.3 kernel, it always runs @ 500? |
| 10:50.48 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: "the CPU spinning empty at 500MHz" where did you get this from? |
| 10:51.19 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: probably on a pr1.3 kernel with vboost, yes it does |
| 10:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | no matter if hostmode kernel or not |
| 10:51.51 | MohammadAG | did you track down the line in kernel diff? |
| 10:51.54 | mgedmin | I do not understand tracker |
| 10:51.57 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: from powertop |
| 10:51.59 | SpeedEvil | on bat you mean too? |
| 10:52.03 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:52.05 | alterego | If only Qt included an RDF parser |
| 10:52.11 | mgedmin | it has WatchDirectoryRoots listing MyDocs/.sounds, .documents etc. |
| 10:52.11 | ruskie | mgedmin, only need to understand enough of it to disable it ;) |
| 10:52.19 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer: interesting |
| 10:52.28 | mgedmin | but tracker indexes images under MyDocs/Books even though that's not listed in WatchDirectoryRoots |
| 10:52.31 | alterego | And I had access to it in QML js |
| 10:52.49 | ruskie | mgedmin, Watch isn't what you think it is |
| 10:52.49 | lcuk | mgedmin, does it have MyDocs/ as a root itself |
| 10:52.53 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: not yet tested, but it feels like a good explanation for MohammadAG 's reported powerhog in PR1.3 with hostmode |
| 10:52.53 | Venemo | mgedmin: how do I block it from indexing images from .sounds? |
| 10:52.59 | mgedmin | lcuk, no |
| 10:53.00 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: that sounds awesome ... :( |
| 10:53.02 | ruskie | iirc by default it will index the entire device |
| 10:53.03 | mgedmin | ruskie, that's what I think too |
| 10:53.07 | Venemo | mgedmin: keep in mind that I still want it to index sounds from .sounds |
| 10:53.13 | ruskie | there's allowed and denied stuff iirc |
| 10:53.14 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: you can |
| 10:53.21 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: read the tracker config file |
| 10:53.21 | ruskie | atm can't check since my n900 is in limbo |
| 10:53.23 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@bzq-79-181-37-161.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 10:53.44 | SpeedEvil | ~/config/trracker/tracker.cfg |
| 10:53.53 | mgedmin | s/trracker/tracker/ |
| 10:53.54 | SpeedEvil | excludedroots will tell it what roots not to index |
| 10:54.08 | SpeedEvil | then you can include dirs and subdirs explicitly |
| 10:54.37 | DocScrutinizer | and still it seems to index stuff that shouldn't - but maybe that's me and my rotten brain |
| 10:54.41 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: no match for the word 'excluded' in that file |
| 10:54.55 | SpeedEvil | I would suggest reading it then. |
| 10:54.58 | SpeedEvil | It's not exactly long. |
| 10:55.14 | mgedmin | there's NoWatchDirectory |
| 10:55.23 | mgedmin | "NOT to index and NOT to watch" |
| 10:55.31 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: there is WatchDirectoryRoots=$HOME/MyDocs/.sounds/;$HOME/MyDocs/.documents/;$HOME/MyDocs/.videos/;$HOME/MyDocs/.images/;$HOME/MyDocs/.camera/; |
| 10:55.56 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: however if I take out .sounds, it won't index music files from there either |
| 10:56.05 | SpeedEvil | take out sounds |
| 10:56.15 | SpeedEvil | add the directory in sounds you want to index |
| 10:56.30 | mgedmin | bloody ukeyboard tells me (with a f%@#ing modal dialog) that I can select new keyboard layouts in the settings app every f%$#ing time on upgrade |
| 10:56.30 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: ok. so you don't understand |
| 10:57.15 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: if I copy any album of any artist to the device, there is an album art image in there, in every folder |
| 10:57.30 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 10:57.41 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: those files are created by Windows for its convenience and it regenerates them all the time so I can't delete all of 'em |
| 10:58.10 | ruskie | anyone managed to load the meego-handset-armv7l-n900 1.1 successfully? |
| 10:58.18 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 10:58.18 | ruskie | I dded the raw to the microsd card |
| 10:58.31 | ruskie | but it says it can't find any supported FS when booting on the phone |
| 10:58.40 | mgedmin | this trackerũbereagerness wouldn't bother me if the Images app started with "filter: Camera folder" by default, instead of "All images" |
| 10:58.42 | ruskie | using: flasher-3.5 -k meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.80.3.20101026.1-vmlinuz-2.6.35.3-9.5-n900 -l -b to boot |
| 10:59.25 | mgedmin | s/ũ/ü/ |
| 10:59.35 | chem|st | ruskie: yes and it's not worth it yet |
| 10:59.39 | SpeedEvil | that's thumbnailer, which is seperate from tracker I think. |
| 10:59.42 | ruskie | chem|st, I need it atm |
| 10:59.47 | ruskie | my base kernel is dead |
| 10:59.54 | ruskie | and can't restore other than booting into a secondary os |
| 11:00.04 | ruskie | but I can't boot into a secondary os since it says no root device |
| 11:00.20 | chem|st | ruskie: ouch |
| 11:00.21 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@pD9EAFA10.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:00.38 | chem|st | are you within linux or windows |
| 11:00.41 | ruskie | did you do anything special to get it to work? |
| 11:00.42 | ruskie | linux |
| 11:00.54 | ruskie | I followed this: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC |
| 11:01.08 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 11:01.22 | MohammadAG | I think you'll get better answers in #meego |
| 11:01.45 | chem|st | ok the partition table should show 2 partition I think it was one logic and one extended |
| 11:01.49 | ruskie | yeah |
| 11:01.54 | *** join/#maemo JorCom (JorCom@85-156-16-159.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 11:01.55 | ruskie | one is swap |
| 11:01.58 | ruskie | the other btrfs |
| 11:02.08 | ruskie | can mount the btrfs one here normaly |
| 11:02.30 | chem|st | ok no idea go ==> #meego ... |
| 11:02.40 | *** join/#maemo tekonivel (~user@lasipalatsi.fi) |
| 11:02.55 | Coke | Any ideas why the front camera is showing a green video in mplayer? |
| 11:03.43 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 11:03.45 | chem|st | Coke: you mean greenish or a lighting green? |
| 11:04.02 | Coke | greenish |
| 11:04.11 | Coke | tinted, sort of |
| 11:04.37 | chem|st | Coke: it gets better with enough light but I don't know, in PR1.2 it was just fine afair |
| 11:05.00 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@mm-6-130-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by) |
| 11:05.15 | chem|st | Coke: maybe adjusting settings will help |
| 11:05.47 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-12096.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 11:06.01 | Coke | chem|st: it's daylight here with the sun streaming in, no less than 4 flourescent tubes also |
| 11:06.07 | chem|st | are there settings for tv: in mplayer is a good question... |
| 11:06.09 | lcuk | merlin1991, whats this bug you noticed in browser? |
| 11:06.27 | Coke | chem|st: basically, mplayer has worked fine with every v4l2 video device I ever tested it on |
| 11:07.02 | chem|st | Coke: make a screenshot pls I'd like to compare with mine |
| 11:07.07 | merlin1991 | if the n900 is up for some time the first window with the favourites list glitches in a way that you can't scroll to the last entry, it jumps back to the 1st all the time |
| 11:07.13 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@nat/nokia/x-smepekclmpkymwpb) |
| 11:07.13 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 11:07.32 | Venemo | merlin1991: go to bugs.maemo.org and report it |
| 11:07.35 | Coke | chem|st: that would be too much work. first snapshot image, transfer to my PC, upload to a location you can access. |
| 11:07.42 | Coke | Nah. I'll just settle with the fact that it doesn't work. |
| 11:08.06 | chem|st | Coke: send an email... |
| 11:08.15 | Venemo | hm... what surprises me is that the N900 is thicker than the N810 |
| 11:08.26 | Coke | chem|st: no, but thanks for the help |
| 11:08.32 | chem|st | Coke: ok ;) |
| 11:08.58 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 11:08.59 | mgedmin | heavier, too, iirc |
| 11:09.06 | Coke | chem|st: as a sidenote, v4l2 is rubbish. Half the controls never work and no UVC |
| 11:09.14 | chem|st | Coke: the greenish here is more like a tinte |
| 11:09.16 | SpeedEvil | I want UVC |
| 11:09.19 | SpeedEvil | UVC would be nice. |
| 11:09.23 | SpeedEvil | UVC-gadget |
| 11:09.30 | Coke | SpeedEvil: you can always use the external uvcvideo driver |
| 11:09.34 | Coke | and libuvc |
| 11:09.39 | SpeedEvil | Plug it in, and two cameras, and a mic pop up. |
| 11:09.44 | Coke | but it won't work with any normal v4l2 software |
| 11:09.49 | Venemo | mgedmin: yeah, heavier too, because it is loaded with more tech |
| 11:09.57 | SpeedEvil | I mean gadget UVC |
| 11:10.04 | mgedmin | sweet sweet tech |
| 11:10.05 | SpeedEvil | It looks like a camera to PCs you plug it into |
| 11:10.07 | lcuk | Venemo, extra camera required in base unit |
| 11:10.13 | Coke | Linux in general sucks big time when it comes to webcams, most of it because webcam vendors dont care about standards that much. |
| 11:10.25 | mgedmin | what's uvc? |
| 11:10.36 | mgedmin | ah, usb video |
| 11:10.37 | Coke | universal video control or something |
| 11:10.53 | mgedmin | on one hand it would be nice to have the n900 act as a web cam |
| 11:11.02 | mgedmin | on the other hand, video quality is kinda crap |
| 11:11.03 | Coke | mgedmin: no, not for that. :) |
| 11:11.16 | Venemo | lcuk: yeah, probably that's the reason |
| 11:11.16 | Coke | it was just a side note, that Linux generally suck with webcams, in particular UVC |
| 11:11.26 | chem|st | SpeedEvil: that is what I mentioned month ago, wouldn't it be nice to export all those fancy gadgets to your PC?! like GPSmouse UVC and so on just by USBdevice handling?! |
| 11:11.27 | alterego | Is it safe to create /home/user/.profile? |
| 11:11.33 | chem|st | Coke: true |
| 11:11.52 | alterego | I vaguely remember people complaing about infinite reboots when they messed with shell initialization ... |
| 11:11.52 | mgedmin | alterego, I have a ~/.profile on my n900 |
| 11:12.14 | Coke | mgedmin: while it would be a fun experiment to use N900 as a webcam, a normal webcam costs about $40, so... |
| 11:12.15 | chem|st | Coke: at least for most webcams I know, the one in my netbook is doing fine with v4l2 and/or uvc |
| 11:12.30 | mgedmin | I was always afraid my nokia would start boot-looping if I screwed it up, so I never screwed it up |
| 11:12.53 | alterego | mgedmin: cool, just want a few aliases :) |
| 11:12.58 | Coke | chem|st: I get really bad results from apps using v4l2 |
| 11:13.16 | alterego | mgedmin: sure |
| 11:13.17 | chem|st | alterego: me too |
| 11:13.18 | Coke | chem|st: except mplayer and ffmpeg, they just rock the socks out of any device |
| 11:14.03 | chem|st | Coke: my desktop crashes on v4l2plugins for firefox(iceweasel) |
| 11:14.28 | Coke | chem|st: v4l2 needs to become v4l3. better hw support and less insane API |
| 11:14.31 | chem|st | the netbook is just working (ootb) |
| 11:14.55 | Venemo | I simply love the 32 GB space on the N900 |
| 11:14.59 | Coke | Yeah, I have a clevo stylenote and a logitech usb cam, both work nicely. |
| 11:15.08 | Coke | Venemo: I have 32G ???? |
| 11:15.11 | Venemo | I no longer need to think about what music should I copy to it... I copy everything I like |
| 11:15.20 | Venemo | Coke: I'm sorry? |
| 11:15.36 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@nat/nokia/x-difmvykbqxpeyufc) |
| 11:15.36 | alterego | Venemo: got yours back now? :D |
| 11:15.36 | chem|st | Coke: my logitech is the one not working since april |
| 11:15.41 | Coke | Venemo: I recently upgraded my N900, it required me to uninstall loads of shit to get space for the 85M download. |
| 11:15.46 | raster | aaaah good sammy |
| 11:15.51 | Coke | Why the fuck would I uninstall anything with 32G? |
| 11:15.55 | Coke | Grr. |
| 11:15.56 | raster | opensourcing gpu drivers |
| 11:15.57 | Venemo | Coke: the 32GB is not the rootfs. :) |
| 11:16.04 | Coke | Venemo: no, but does it matter? |
| 11:16.06 | Venemo | alterego: no, they couldn't fix it... so they replaced it |
| 11:16.14 | mgedmin | alterego, http://pastie.org/1257705 |
| 11:16.18 | Coke | Venemo: I mean, they could have put the rootfs anywhere they want |
| 11:16.28 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 11:16.33 | Venemo | Coke: yes, it does. the 32G is a build-in memory card |
| 11:16.39 | Coke | I'd gladly give up 16G to get just 1G of more rootfs |
| 11:16.41 | chem|st | Coke: in case of speed they cannot do |
| 11:16.51 | Coke | Speed? |
| 11:16.53 | Coke | What speed? |
| 11:16.59 | chem|st | device |
| 11:17.01 | Coke | It takes about 10 minutes to update the lists in the package manager. |
| 11:17.07 | alterego | Venemo: even better ;) |
| 11:17.24 | SpeedEvil | rootfs is a seperate 256M device |
| 11:17.25 | chem|st | Coke: thats HAM if you apt-get update it takes a few seconds |
| 11:17.36 | Coke | Obviously, the rootfs device is too small anyway. |
| 11:17.49 | Venemo | alterego: yeah. this one seems a bit different though |
| 11:17.50 | Coke | chem|st: noted. I've stopped using the app manager now |
| 11:18.08 | Venemo | Coke: yeah, that's what optification is for |
| 11:18.12 | *** join/#maemo harbaum (~quassel@2001:8d8:1fe:8:baac:6fff:fe2d:73a3) |
| 11:18.13 | Coke | 256M + 32G. What a waste. 32G of space I will NEVER use |
| 11:18.16 | chem|st | Coke: to store there stuff yes, for a / file system no |
| 11:18.30 | *** join/#maemo leandrosansilva (~quassel@189.26.66.207.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 11:18.34 | Coke | and 256M that will constantly be full |
| 11:18.43 | alterego | mgedmin: that's pretty much exactly what I've done, though I've also added a . ~/aliasrc |
| 11:18.52 | alterego | which has a load of aliases |
| 11:19.11 | alterego | mostly ssh -t user@host screen -D -RR |
| 11:19.18 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@mail.tin.nl) |
| 11:19.19 | chem|st | var should be anywhere else |
| 11:20.02 | Coke | have a nice weekend dudes and dudettes |
| 11:21.00 | chem|st | alterego: -D -RR? -rd for servers for me... |
| 11:21.09 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 11:21.44 | Venemo | alterego: next week I'll start looking through your stuff in depth |
| 11:22.16 | Venemo | alterego: not in the weekend though, cause I'm going home to my family and I won't bring with me my computer |
| 11:22.42 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@bzq-79-181-37-161.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 11:22.44 | Venemo | ~seen Khertan |
| 11:22.51 | infobot | khertan <~Khertan@AAmiens-553-1-169-251.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 8m 19s ago, saying: 'someone have the right to admin maemo builder ? seems he didn't want to build my package :)'. |
| 11:23.07 | alterego | Cool |
| 11:23.47 | Venemo | alterego: do you remember the thingy that we figured out? the trick to open the main menu of the app in a Maemo app? |
| 11:24.20 | alterego | Yes, it's in that code |
| 11:25.02 | lcuk | andre__, re bug 11485 its possible he could have bad bookmarks, i don't experience this problem on my device can someone confirm if it happens on theirs? |
| 11:25.03 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11485 favourites list scrolling jumps back to first entry |
| 11:26.19 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@wifi06.phys.uu.nl) |
| 11:28.38 | chem|st | lcuk: uptime 20h and no jumpback, I will try again 2morrow |
| 11:30.23 | Venemo | alterego: k :) |
| 11:31.02 | alterego | Look at the Maemo5MenuButton code, it's basically a button to open the menu when in fullscreen. |
| 11:31.15 | Venemo | alterego: okay |
| 11:31.27 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 11:32.07 | lcuk | thanks chem|st - my feeling too, i wonder where the bookmarks are stored so he can test clearing them and seeing if it was some kind of bad one |
| 11:33.07 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@201.82.29.28) |
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| 11:35.03 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (~ph5@e178226120.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:35.04 | kthomas_vh | MohammadAG, any chance you're still interested in the N810W? |
| 11:35.45 | Venemo | MohammadAG: is the community SSU _S_SU now? |
| 11:36.17 | MohammadAG | kthomas_vh, short on money, or actually, I need the money for something else |
| 11:36.20 | MohammadAG | sorry :| |
| 11:36.38 | MohammadAG | Venemo, yes, sort of, I still don't get why the terminal window isn't launched from postinst |
| 11:36.39 | kthomas_vh | np, I have to fly on Sunday and was looking to lower my weight :) |
| 11:36.58 | MohammadAG | Venemo, other than that, yes, it is SSU and not on an external site |
| 11:37.03 | Venemo | MohammadAG: ok, I'll try it now from PR 1.3 |
| 11:37.10 | MohammadAG | Venemo, see channel |
| 11:37.18 | Venemo | MohammadAG: k |
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| 11:37.41 | kthomas_vh | otherwise, it is easy to sell in the US |
| 11:38.34 | Kaadlajk | lcuk: i believe bookmarks are in /home/user/.mozilla/microb/places.sqlite |
| 11:38.49 | lcuk | thanks Kaadlajk \o |
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| 11:41.52 | iksaif | PaulFertser: could you try "Zouba" it also uses libqtm-location ? |
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| 11:42.51 | PaulFertser | iksaif: hm possibly |
| 11:43.10 | iksaif | and PaulFertser could check your gps settings ? (if netowrk localisation if enabled, and if gps is enabled) |
| 11:43.17 | PaulFertser | iksaif: yes, yes, yes |
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| 11:47.21 | PaulFertser | iksaif: hm, zouba seems to start nicely every time (with sat receiver icon blinking etc) |
| 11:47.54 | iksaif | but it was built against PR 1.2 .. so it doesn't necessary tell us something |
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| 11:50.19 | PaulFertser | iksaif: ldd output looks limilar |
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| 11:59.42 | PaulFertser | iksaif: sorry, no idea about the actual difference between the two apps... |
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| 12:03.11 | fcrochik | hi...can anybody help me with two questions on linux: can any think of a reason why "/opt/crochik/geeps > /home/user/MyDocs/geepslog.txt" would not work? the file is created but I still see the output on the screen :( |
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| 12:03.52 | achipa | fcrochik: stderr instead of sdout ? |
| 12:04.14 | fcrochik | 2nd: is there a simple "script" I can run that will find a line "Backend=maemo5-crochik" and replace it with "Backend=maemo5" w/o messing with the other lines? |
| 12:04.39 | fcrochik | achipa: should be stdout ( qDebug() << ...) |
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| 12:05.07 | PaulFertser | fcrochik: sed -i 's/^Backend=maemo5-crochik$/Backend=maemo5/' file-you-want-to-change |
| 12:05.44 | fcrochik | PaulFertser: I will give a try....thanks! |
| 12:08.22 | mgedmin | fcrochik, "The Qt implementation of these functions prints the text to the stderr output under Unix/X11 and Mac OS X." |
| 12:08.26 | mgedmin | says http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/debug.html |
| 12:08.34 | mgedmin | about qDebug() |
| 12:09.01 | fcrochik | mgedmin: the funny thing is that it used to work... is it possible that has changed with qt4.7 |
| 12:09.12 | mgedmin | while qInstallMsgHandler says that the default handler "prints the message to the standard output under X11 " |
| 12:09.20 | mgedmin | yay for self-contradictory documentation |
| 12:09.21 | mgedmin | hates Qt |
| 12:09.48 | chem|st | has anyone managed to cast sound with pulse? (rtp-sink) |
| 12:09.55 | fcrochik | mgedmin: oh...wait a minute... I think the application that used to work actually "install a handler" and this one doesn't |
| 12:10.49 | fcrochik | mgedmin: so my question should be how do I redirect the stderr ? :) |
| 12:10.56 | mgedmin | 2>file.txt |
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| 12:13.20 | fcrochik | mgedmin: great! works like a charm! |
| 12:13.33 | ieatlint | you can also redirect stdout and stderr to the same file with: "./app > output.txt 2>&1" :P |
| 12:13.35 | fcrochik | PaulFertser: thank you. It did the trick... |
| 12:13.52 | PaulFertser | fcrochik: that's unix for you |
| 12:15.01 | fcrochik | PaulFertser: great! I will add to the belt... sure it will be handy many times |
| 12:17.14 | PaulFertser | fcrochik: "man sed" is even more useful |
| 12:19.27 | ZogG | hey |
| 12:19.46 | ruskie | omg... managed to save my install through meego |
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| 12:29.36 | crashanddie | "A private telecom firm took high speed Internet facilities to the top of the world on Thursday when it launched Nepal's first 3G services at the base camp of Mount Everest." |
| 12:30.31 | crashanddie | predicts future tweets: "LOL, Took this picture at top of Evrst with new White #iPhone 4" |
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| 12:31.35 | fcrochik | PaulFertser: not on the n900 :) |
| 12:32.12 | PaulFertser | fcrochik: one of the first things i did is apt-got the manpages and the man toolset. |
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| 12:33.16 | mgedmin | so, anybody tried meego 1.1 on the n900 yet? |
| 12:33.40 | phellarv | mgedmin: Yes |
| 12:33.51 | mgedmin | is it fast? |
| 12:34.02 | phellarv | mgedmin: HAHAHA - No. |
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| 12:34.06 | pigeon | anyone knows where i could download this package? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/libgles1-sgx-img/0.20091104.34+0m5/ |
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| 12:34.30 | phellarv | mgedmin: Perhaps with a Class 12 MicroSD... |
| 12:34.49 | Venemo | goodbye guys |
| 12:34.54 | Scelt | phellarv and mgedmin: the first boot is slow |
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| 12:35.34 | phellarv | Scelt: Slow first boot is expected, but the UI and user experience feels sluggish. |
| 12:36.02 | Scelt | a little but don't think it's about the sd speed |
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| 12:36.16 | phellarv | Scelt: You got a class 6 or better? |
| 12:36.20 | Scelt | 6 |
| 12:36.39 | phellarv | Mmm - class 2 is slooooow. |
| 12:36.50 | phryk | What is the grps/gsm device's name in /dev ? |
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| 12:41.58 | alterego | phryk: I don't think there is one |
| 12:42.25 | alterego | maybe ttyGS? |
| 12:43.27 | phryk | don't have ttyGS, just tty, tty0-63 and ttyS0-3 |
| 12:43.35 | flux | do I break my system if change user's shell to bash or zsh? |
| 12:43.48 | phryk | nope i don't think so |
| 12:44.00 | phryk | user:!:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/bash |
| 12:44.05 | phryk | from /etc/passwd |
| 12:44.07 | phryk | still works for me |
| 12:44.27 | flux | so now it's a matter of only compiling zsh for it, because it appears not to have it :) (unless bash suffices) |
| 12:44.32 | flux | phryk, great, thanks! |
| 12:44.35 | phryk | no problem |
| 12:45.08 | flux | phryk, do you have package bash or bash3 installed? |
| 12:45.09 | phryk | from what i have heard, zsh is pure bullshit, codewise |
| 12:45.20 | flux | well, my miles-long initialization files are for zsh ;) |
| 12:45.30 | flux | fortunately I haven't taken a look at its source |
| 12:45.34 | phryk | bash3 |
| 12:45.41 | jacekowski | zsh is for sad people |
| 12:45.53 | phryk | Mh |
| 12:45.58 | jacekowski | i used to use it |
| 12:46.04 | flux | zsh has for example approximate path completion, which I imagine could be nice on n900 |
| 12:46.19 | phryk | Why does the filemanager take the name set for the bluetooth as the name of the device, instead of the hostname?^^ |
| 12:46.50 | jacekowski | phryk: because hostname is always maemo |
| 12:47.04 | phryk | jacekowski: nope?^^ |
| 12:47.20 | phryk | hostname for me was "Nokia-N900" or so, and I changed it⦠|
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| 12:50.00 | slonopotamus | ~pr1.3 |
| 12:50.01 | infobot | pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 |
| 12:50.45 | mgedmin | zsh has a bunch of nifty stuff, and lacks a different bunch of nifty stuff that I'm used to, from bash |
| 12:50.49 | mgedmin | zsh drives me mad |
| 12:51.08 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, hostname is /etc/hostname |
| 12:51.14 | MohammadAG | I have it changed |
| 12:51.27 | pupnik | http://slack.net/~ant/info/rgb_clamped_sub.html clamped 15-bit color subtraction |
| 12:51.48 | flux | mgedmin, so, basically, zsh isn't bash.. |
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| 12:52.40 | mgedmin | flux, more precisely, zsh is not a superset of bash |
| 12:52.59 | mgedmin | I think zsh is a clone/fork/descendant of ksh |
| 12:53.04 | flashn_ | its more like the other way around |
| 12:53.34 | mgedmin | heh |
| 12:53.36 | flux | well, bash has been busy adding features as well. maybe it's been good for zsh to simply atleast exist |
| 12:53.57 | flux | at the time when bash was at 2.0, zsh had all kinds of cool stuff |
| 12:54.03 | mgedmin | zsh still has cool stuff |
| 12:54.05 | flux | but I don't really know what bash nowadays has |
| 12:54.31 | mgedmin | lots of different cool stuff |
| 12:54.32 | mgedmin | ;) |
| 12:54.38 | mgedmin | maybe less cool than zsh |
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| 12:55.09 | flux | well, it's not cool if it's in bash. you know, it's the defacto 'vanilla' shell of linux distributions ;-) |
| 12:55.47 | mgedmin | some things (like putting the name of the running command in xterm title) are _painful_ to do in bash |
| 12:55.58 | mgedmin | bash-completion eats 600ms on startup |
| 12:56.11 | mgedmin | then again I just measured that zsh also eats 600ms on startup for something |
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| 12:58.41 | MohammadAG | lol bshno_highlight |
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| 13:00.15 | pupnik | we found a great pixel-shader algo. who can get it running on n900? |
| 13:00.22 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM3WWurYmLw |
| 13:00.28 | pupnik | (sgx) |
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| 13:11.16 | pupnik | aha! clamping integers without conditionals http://bob.allegronetwork.com/prog/tricks.html#clamp |
| 13:13.05 | rmrfchik | mobilehotspot want kernel-power. is it safe for PR1.3? |
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| 13:23.00 | jacekowski | phryk: yeah, but you are not a "normal" user |
| 13:23.15 | jacekowski | phryk: you can change it, but name that can be changed from gui is only bluetooth name |
| 13:23.30 | phryk | Ah okay |
| 13:23.44 | phryk | are there⦠"normal" maemo users?^^ |
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| 13:26.42 | crashanddie | anyone fancy a "Ironette", female iron man costume for halloween? |
| 13:26.43 | crashanddie | http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/69913.jpg?zm=1200,1200,1,0,0 |
| 13:27.17 | crashanddie | or a bumblebee transformers chick costume? http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/69902.jpg?zm=1200,1200,1,0,0 |
| 13:29.36 | stef_204 | hi guys, quick question re. email client in maemo 5 20.2010.36-2 on N900. The default email client always downloads the full body of email AND any attachments |
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| 13:30.03 | stef_204 | which is a drag on people that have a plan based on data quantity per month |
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| 13:31.03 | stef_204 | anyone knows if 1) can change any settings to make it only download header until email is requested/selected? OR 2) another email client that could be used which wold not have this behavior? |
| 13:31.24 | stef_204 | I tried using "Claws" but still too much in early development and not working well |
| 13:31.32 | stef_204 | I am talking about IMAP btw |
| 13:33.11 | phryk | If you are not gui-dependant, you could setup an account with mutt on your machine home and just ssh in there |
| 13:33.31 | phryk | But curses usability is⦠limited with the little keyboard |
| 13:34.28 | mgedmin | so it's good that most mutt commands are alphabet-based |
| 13:34.32 | mgedmin | j/k etc. |
| 13:34.46 | mgedmin | <enter> being <esc>OM in osso-xterm mucks things up a bit |
| 13:34.57 | mgedmin | ctrl-j is not a snice |
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| 13:36.01 | psYchotic | good day everyone |
| 13:36.22 | stef_204 | phryk: too complex for me, i'd have to ssh in there all the time, the home machine not always on, etc. |
| 13:36.47 | psYchotic | I have a question: is there any reason why I don't get a message telling me I can update to PR1.3? |
| 13:37.16 | psYchotic | I've checked for updates for the past couple of days, but I don't get PR1.3 |
| 13:37.54 | phryk | stef_204: nothing else coming to my mind, sory |
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| 13:38.31 | stef_204 | phryk: fine--there's got to ba a solution--hopefully not hacking in source code of default email client |
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| 13:40.50 | mgedmin | psYchotic, firmware updates to some locales (especially UK) have been delayed |
| 13:41.18 | psYchotic | mgedmin: aha, perhaps that's why |
| 13:41.30 | psYchotic | any reason why it would be delayed for some locales? |
| 13:41.52 | mgedmin | nokian's haven't built/debugged them yet, would be my guess |
| 13:42.10 | mgedmin | eek, what's that apo'strophe doing there in my 'sentence? |
| 13:42.15 | psYchotic | right' |
| 13:42.57 | psYchotic | it's kinda weird though, what kind of differences are there really between US and UK locales? |
| 13:43.07 | psYchotic | I'm not even sure what locale my N900's setup for |
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| 13:44.40 | ebzzry | ruskie: Are you there? |
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| 14:14.58 | Jef91 | Anyone here use dropn900 (for dropbox)? |
| 14:15.07 | Jef91 | I installed it yesterday and it refuses to load for me |
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| 14:15.15 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~chewtoy@c80-216-53-128.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:15.19 | Jef91 | It starts to load when I press the icon and then it just crashes out |
| 14:15.36 | MohammadAG51 | run it from terminal |
| 14:18.22 | Myrtti | that is always a good start if it's available |
| 14:19.47 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz5 (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:21.48 | Jef91 | what is the command mohammadAG51? |
| 14:21.56 | Jef91 | I went to do that but "dropn900" is not a command :-/ |
| 14:22.23 | MohammadAG51 | idk, don't have it, it's probably in /opt/drop something |
| 14:22.25 | MohammadAG51 | use tab |
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| 14:26.06 | Jef91 | wonderful just a general seg fault when I run it :-/ |
| 14:26.10 | Jef91 | odds are pr1.3 broke it |
| 14:26.33 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@89.142.210.214) |
| 14:27.03 | Jef91 | drat! it was terribly useful too :-/ |
| 14:28.28 | *** join/#maemo guysoft42 (~guysoft@109.64.9.128) |
| 14:30.27 | *** join/#maemo alecjw (~alec@94-195-230-149.zone9.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:30.56 | alecjw | hi, how can i make my media player update my library? at the moment, its only registering my MP3 files |
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| 14:33.23 | *** join/#maemo hrw (~hrw@conference/ubuntudevelopersummit/x-qsbziicvdstljesk) |
| 14:35.45 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha, I *love* Adobe. Reliably gives my my monthly WTF: http://www.adobe.com/support/security/advisories/apsa10-05.html |
| 14:35.50 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-156-161.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 14:35.58 | Venemo_N900 | hi |
| 14:38.53 | *** join/#maemo sergio__ (~sergio@145.Red-88-24-215.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
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| 14:38.59 | MohammadAG51 | hey |
| 14:39.30 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: nice! |
| 14:40.52 | Venemo_N900 | ~botsnack |
| 14:40.52 | infobot | Venemo_N900: aw, gee |
| 14:40.56 | DocScrutinizer | alecjw: please elaborate |
| 14:42.00 | alecjw | DocScrutinizer, only my mp3 audio files show up in the media player. the vorbis files dont. i have vorbis extentions installed and i can play them if i search for them via the file browser |
| 14:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | alecjw: "update" is done by tracker-daemon, not by mediaplayer. |
| 14:42.20 | alecjw | it worked perfectly until last night, when i upgraded the maemo OS |
| 14:42.51 | alecjw | sudo /etc/init.d/tracker-daemon restart or something then? |
| 14:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, delete or copy or rename one single file there, it should trigger trackerd to recreate index |
| 14:43.38 | MohammadAG51 | reinstall decoders-support |
| 14:43.52 | MohammadAG51 | or rerun the postinst |
| 14:44.20 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 14:44.48 | DocScrutinizer | I hate trackerd! DIE! crap, BURN IN HELL! |
| 14:45.19 | MohammadAG51 | alecjw, /var/lib/dpkg/info/decoders-support.postinst |
| 14:45.21 | MohammadAG51 | as root |
| 14:45.47 | Venemo_N900 | ~burn trackerd, because DocScrutinizer hates you! |
| 14:45.47 | infobot | ACTION pours gasoline all over trackerd, because DocScrutinizer hates you!, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 14:46.44 | Venemo_N900 | heh |
| 14:47.06 | kerio | ~nuke trackerd |
| 14:47.06 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at trackerd ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 14:47.12 | kerio | ~nuke pulseaudio |
| 14:47.12 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at pulseaudio ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 14:47.19 | kerio | OH SHIT I CAN'T HEAR ANYTHING |
| 14:47.56 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: on my device, nothing's wrong with PA |
| 14:48.12 | *** join/#maemo rblank (~rblank@83.219.114.94) |
| 14:49.20 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: I dunno what you have against it |
| 14:49.35 | kerio | takes more cpu than the decoding of the mp3 |
| 14:50.01 | Venemo_N900 | how can you tell that? |
| 14:50.06 | kerio | huh... top |
| 14:50.43 | Venemo_N900 | on my device, cpu usage is on the min when playing mp3s |
| 14:50.58 | kerio | meh, it could be because i'm using a2dp |
| 14:51.30 | alecjw | DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG, still nothing. but i have to go now. thanks for your help, ill try again later |
| 14:51.34 | *** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@134.134.137.71) |
| 14:51.59 | Venemo_N900 | also, the cpu is not supposed to decode 'em, there's a dsp for that |
| 14:52.18 | crashanddie | Venemo_N900, only if it makes sense |
| 14:52.35 | Venemo_N900 | maybe a2dp is what takes your cpu, kerio |
| 14:52.46 | *** join/#maemo jasd (~dj@HSI-KBW-091-089-114-103.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:52.46 | *** join/#maemo jasd (~dj@unaffiliated/jasd) |
| 14:52.47 | Venemo_N900 | crashanddie: what do you mean makes sense? |
| 14:53.18 | kerio | 1/0 never makes sense |
| 14:53.33 | kerio | sqrt(-1) makes sense, some times |
| 14:53.53 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: sqrt(-1) = i |
| 14:54.04 | kerio | Venemo_N900: which doesn't exist on the real axis |
| 14:54.11 | kerio | that's why i said "some times" |
| 14:54.19 | Venemo_N900 | kerio: yeah :) |
| 14:54.31 | _trine | I just tried the Nokia BH-905 Stereo Bluetooth Headphones |
| 14:54.36 | _trine | they are very good |
| 14:54.47 | *** part/#maemo crashanddie (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
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| 14:55.19 | kerio | i'm using a pair of sony bt headphones |
| 14:55.26 | kerio | good battery life, good sound |
| 14:56.10 | _trine | the Nokia BH-905 with noise cancelling is fantastic |
| 14:56.28 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@110.164.167.84) |
| 14:57.12 | _trine | even with no music if I switch on noise cancelling the computer fan noise from my computer completely disappears |
| 14:57.33 | _trine | and silence reigns |
| 14:57.41 | Venemo_N900 | _trine: sounds nice |
| 14:58.06 | *** join/#maemo smooph1 (~smooph@e180163126.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:58.18 | _trine | and the range of the BT is impressive |
| 14:59.13 | _trine | before I tried them I was worried the sound over BT would be crap,,, I was wrong |
| 15:00.50 | *** join/#maemo GNU\caustic (~caustic@holz.brechpunkt.de) |
| 15:01.45 | GNU\caustic | hi! i'm trying to update by running apt-get upgrade, but it spits out a list of >1000 packages which are held back. i cannot figure out why they are held back though. |
| 15:01.59 | DocScrutinizer | glares at http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/features.html... *BURP* |
| 15:02.38 | hrw | Venemo_N900: I prefer sqrt(-1) to be 'j' then 'i' |
| 15:02.44 | andre__ | don't use apt-get upgrade... |
| 15:02.54 | Venemo_N900 | hrw: why? |
| 15:03.04 | Venemo_N900 | andre__: why not? |
| 15:03.26 | *** join/#maemo dneary__ (~dneary@ALyon-152-1-178-121.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:03.27 | GNU\caustic | how should i update then without reflashing or using the nokia suite? |
| 15:03.50 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: over the air |
| 15:04.03 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: what's the problem with reflashin? |
| 15:04.21 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-94-81.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 15:04.43 | andre__ | Venemo_N900: it's not supported, it's not tested, it circumvents h-a-m checks, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6014#c5 |
| 15:04.44 | povbot | Bug 6014: apt-get upgrade can result in non-bootable device |
| 15:04.44 | GNU\caustic | i don't have a bigger interest in reconfiguring and reinstalling stuff |
| 15:04.54 | hrw|uds | Venemo_N900: "i" is used my mathematics. 'j' is used by electrotechnics because for us 'i' is other thing already |
| 15:05.16 | DocScrutinizer | isn't it strange how it turns out tracker starts with a g*? I should have known, by the hate I feel for trackerd, it can not be anything else than g* |
| 15:05.21 | Venemo_N900 | andre__: well it has always worked for me |
| 15:05.27 | hrw|uds | upgraded to pr1.3 with apt-get but I would not say that it was easy ;D |
| 15:05.37 | Venemo_N900 | hrw|uds: yeah, I heard about that |
| 15:06.01 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: does SSU work for you? |
| 15:06.04 | hrw|uds | Venemo_N900: so "2+i3" is "w+3j" |
| 15:06.07 | hrw|uds | Venemo_N900: so "2+i3" is "2+3j" |
| 15:06.11 | GNU\caustic | why can't stupid apt-get tell why it holds back packages? |
| 15:06.26 | DocScrutinizer | is there any locale on this earth where g=w ? |
| 15:06.55 | DocScrutinizer | as it seams gnome shit always been the poor clone of windows philosophy |
| 15:07.06 | Venemo_N900 | hrw|uds: as I'm gonna be an electronic engineer myself, could you tell me what you use i for? |
| 15:07.33 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: why? kde isn't? |
| 15:07.42 | hrw|uds | Venemo_N900: I do not remember now after all those years. temporary amperage? |
| 15:07.59 | mgedmin | DocScrutinizer: you're absolutely right, except it's KDE that clones Windows; GNOME tends to clone Mac OS X |
| 15:08.07 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: has KDE an abomination like gconf? |
| 15:08.14 | Venemo_N900 | hrw|uds: I dunno, this is my first year in uni |
| 15:08.35 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: I dunno of its inner workings |
| 15:08.36 | DocScrutinizer | where gconf is an exact copy of registry |
| 15:08.46 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.210.214) |
| 15:09.03 | mgedmin | ⥠gconf |
| 15:09.11 | mgedmin | what's the icon for hate? |
| 15:09.13 | hrw|uds | DocScrutinizer: KDE uses .ini style files |
| 15:09.16 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: but at least, when I tried both, I liked gnome's ux more |
| 15:09.33 | DocScrutinizer | lately somebody started wining as he couldn't make gnome edit .desktop files X-P |
| 15:09.47 | DocScrutinizer | hrw|uds: I know |
| 15:10.06 | Venemo_N900 | x-p=? |
| 15:11.39 | GNU\caustic | Venemo_N900: whats SSU? :) |
| 15:11.54 | hrw|uds | ~ssu |
| 15:11.54 | infobot | rumour has it, ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU |
| 15:12.20 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: seamless software update |
| 15:12.37 | GNU\caustic | yeah, that one doesn't work |
| 15:12.44 | GNU\caustic | it wants to be connected to the nokia suite |
| 15:12.48 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: why not? |
| 15:12.58 | GNU\caustic | don't have a nokia suite |
| 15:13.33 | mgedmin | GNU\caustic, there's a library, something opengl-related, that prevents SSU upgrades |
| 15:13.45 | mgedmin | if you remove apps that depend on that library (e.g. CloudGPS), you can then upgrade |
| 15:14.02 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: you misunderstand |
| 15:14.16 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: ask maemo conversations, maybe it gives you an emoticon for XP next to the one for :-P |
| 15:14.19 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: it is done by the N900's os automatically |
| 15:14.32 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: aaaah... |
| 15:14.48 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 15:15.29 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~Vanadismo@gprs13.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 15:15.39 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: ssu is ssu because it doesn't need an external software or computer for it |
| 15:16.00 | *** join/#maemo dneary_ (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 15:16.05 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: you must have enough space on the rootfs and you must not have package conflicts though |
| 15:16.29 | GNU\caustic | the update thing pops up a dialog telling that it wants to be connected to the nokia suite |
| 15:16.47 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@32.80-202-83.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:16.47 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 15:16.54 | johnsq | Hi |
| 15:17.02 | *** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.245.144) |
| 15:17.04 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: it tells you that because you have either package conflicts or not enough space on rootfs |
| 15:17.21 | *** join/#maemo x03 (jahf@cl-188.lis-01.pt.sixxs.net) |
| 15:17.24 | GNU\caustic | a brilliant error message |
| 15:17.41 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@conference/ubuntudevelopersummit/x-qwqhpsqxyeeqoxjq) |
| 15:17.56 | Venemo_N900 | well it is intended for users who don't know what these things mean |
| 15:18.08 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: bring up a root terminal and type 'df -h', then please tell us how much space you got on your rootsf |
| 15:18.14 | Venemo_N900 | rootfs* |
| 15:18.28 | mgedmin | when I didn't have enough free space, the app manager told me so |
| 15:18.40 | mgedmin | so "you must use pc suite" must mean you've got packaging conflicts |
| 15:18.56 | Venemo_N900 | 'df -h | grep rootfs' |
| 15:19.00 | mgedmin | am I wrong? have things changed in later versions? |
| 15:19.00 | GNU\caustic | i uninstalled the gles thing and trying again |
| 15:19.23 | Venemo_N900 | mgedmin: well I dunno, maybe you're right |
| 15:19.26 | GNU\caustic | i guess it works, its starting to download now |
| 15:19.38 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: hooray :) |
| 15:19.41 | SpeedEvil | Anyone in the UK with n900 and t-mo? Specifically if you've opted into orange network - do you get it appearing as 'orange' ? |
| 15:20.38 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.210.214) |
| 15:22.38 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 15:23.03 | DocScrutinizer | how can you opt in to orange? |
| 15:23.06 | SpeedEvil | t-mo/orange merger in the UK |
| 15:23.13 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:23.25 | SpeedEvil | you can opt in on a per phone basis by texting |
| 15:24.37 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 15:24.48 | *** join/#maemo xDaReaperx_ (~chatzilla@117.198.250.109) |
| 15:24.55 | DocScrutinizer | there are (at least) 3 sources for network name: a table with netcode->name tupels in OS/cellmo, an name written to SIM config, and a short and long name coming OTA |
| 15:25.08 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube (~ghost@unaffiliated/ghostcube) |
| 15:26.39 | *** join/#maemo spinningcompass (~hugo@adsl-99-104-66-160.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:27.41 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes, on some phones during sign-in, you see all three popping up in sequence |
| 15:28.19 | DocScrutinizer | like "Vodafone"->"O2"->"Loop" |
| 15:28.22 | SpeedEvil | I suppose I should check syslog |
| 15:28.34 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-15-8.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 15:29.09 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.232.182) |
| 15:29.13 | DocScrutinizer | for what? |
| 15:29.35 | DocScrutinizer | to check if you roamed to another network? use netmon |
| 15:30.13 | DocScrutinizer | to find out about your accounting details? ask interwebs |
| 15:34.03 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, how do i find powerhogs, as you call them |
| 15:34.12 | MohammadAG51 | my battery's getting raped |
| 15:34.16 | MohammadAG51 | powertop? |
| 15:34.20 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:34.39 | DocScrutinizer | plus SpeedEvil incredible invaluable wiki pages on the topic |
| 15:35.14 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~smooph@e180135220.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:35.21 | pupnik | o2 seems to work ok for me in .de |
| 15:35.48 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 15:35.49 | DocScrutinizer | err, yes. Why shouldn't it? |
| 15:35.51 | iksaif | PaulFertser: I think I found the bug :) |
| 15:36.01 | PaulFertser | iksaif: really? |
| 15:36.02 | PaulFertser | ;) |
| 15:36.06 | iksaif | in QtLocation liblocationwrapper.cpp |
| 15:36.09 | iksaif | they use a flag |
| 15:36.15 | iksaif | locationState |
| 15:36.20 | PaulFertser | Yes, seen that |
| 15:36.21 | iksaif | to see if the service is started |
| 15:36.24 | Venemo_N900 | iksaif: what bug? |
| 15:36.28 | iksaif | but .. the flag is not set to 0 |
| 15:36.33 | iksaif | when the class is constructed |
| 15:36.36 | DocScrutinizer | hahahahaHAHA |
| 15:36.47 | iksaif | so .. sometime the var is 0, sometime it's just some random crap |
| 15:36.51 | PaulFertser | iksaif: lol, i assumed it's some static variable. |
| 15:37.11 | iksaif | it's a member of LiblocationWrapper |
| 15:37.17 | DocScrutinizer | noob oops |
| 15:37.36 | iksaif | so it may works with some apps because they have some memory pattern that make this flag be 0 on load |
| 15:37.38 | PaulFertser | iksaif: if you have that "scratchbox" shit handy, feel free to ask me to test your recompiled package for that. |
| 15:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | still wonders why there isn't a SPANK function in gcc for fools using vars right side before left side |
| 15:38.43 | iksaif | I think I'll fill a bug repport first |
| 15:38.50 | iksaif | I hop this will be fixed soon :/ |
| 15:39.54 | PaulFertser | iksaif: well, for the testing purposes it might worth to build a custom package. Also probably that bugreport will be there waiting for the devs for months, but you'd be able to provide a fixed version in extras-devel already. |
| 15:40.18 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 15:40.44 | GNU\caustic | "operating system successfully updated" \o/ |
| 15:40.57 | Venemo_N900 | GNU\caustic: hooray! :) |
| 15:40.58 | iksaif | PaulFertser: the fix has to be made in QtMobility anyway, I can't fix it in my app right ? |
| 15:41.22 | iksaif | you mean, a custom qtm-location package ? |
| 15:41.23 | PaulFertser | iksaif: sure you can't that's what i'm talking about. |
| 15:41.31 | Venemo_N900 | iksaif: even if they fix it tomorrow, the fix will only be in the next fw upgrade... :( |
| 15:43.09 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.232.182) |
| 15:43.40 | iksaif | PaulFertser: so what should I do ? provide a custom qtm-location package ? |
| 15:43.55 | iksaif | how to make such a package available in extra-devel/extra-testing ? |
| 15:44.02 | PaulFertser | iksaif: yes, to me for testing first :) |
| 15:44.28 | iksaif | (and could anyone confirm my guess before I fill a bug report ? see http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/src/location/liblocationwrapper_p.h / http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/src/location/liblocationwrapper.cpp and locationState variable) |
| 15:44.28 | PaulFertser | iksaif: i'm sure the folks here know the answer, i'm totally clueless about all this maemo distro business. |
| 15:44.37 | iksaif | ok, I'll do that |
| 15:44.49 | iksaif | are you always on the chan ? |
| 15:44.50 | PaulFertser | iksaif: (ah, so it's even in the master 1.2 branch, heh) |
| 15:45.18 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 15:45.18 | *** join/#maemo tilppis (~tilppis@89-166-4-136.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 15:45.54 | PaulFertser | iksaif: I might quit any second as i'm not comfortable being here, but i'm almost always on freenode, so just ``/query PaulFertser'' whenever you feel like. |
| 15:46.15 | iksaif | ok, great |
| 15:46.34 | iksaif | thanks for your help btw, |
| 15:47.09 | *** join/#maemo johnsu01` (~user@fencepost.gnu.org) |
| 15:47.11 | rblank | Hello everyone. I see a system update is available on my N900. Any issues I need to be careful with? My device hasn't been "heavily" hacked. |
| 15:47.48 | PaulFertser | iksaif: lol, even basic gdb knowledge seems to be somewhat the majority of this > 500 members lack, i'm glad i was of help. |
| 15:48.03 | mgedmin | rblank, no, no issues; creating a backup is recommended on general principles |
| 15:49.15 | ruskie | PaulFertser, why aren't you comfortable around here? |
| 15:49.55 | Venemo_N900 | nah guys, goodbye now :) |
| 15:50.01 | iksaif | PaulFertser: do you confirm that the bug is related to the flag not being set ? |
| 15:50.09 | rblank | mgedmin: Thanks. |
| 15:50.17 | PaulFertser | ruskie: if this is not another attempt to drag me into argument for some folk's lulz, please query in private, i'll explain. |
| 15:50.53 | PaulFertser | iksaif: it looks very much like that, this flag is something i've thought about myself but somehow i decided its getting cleared somewhere. |
| 15:51.36 | iksaif | PaulFertser: instead of doing a new build, maybe you could set the flag to zero by hand using gdb |
| 15:51.47 | iksaif | adding a breakpoint in LibLocationWrapper::inited() |
| 15:52.06 | PaulFertser | iksaif: i'll try in few minutes. |
| 15:52.12 | iksaif | if you have the time to do so of course |
| 15:53.10 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 15:54.19 | rblank | How can I convince my N900 to do the system update *without* the "Nokia PC Suite"? |
| 15:55.02 | Venemo_N900 | rblank: get rid of the dependency problems, make enough room on rootfs |
| 15:55.35 | madduck | ~pr1.3 |
| 15:55.35 | infobot | from memory, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 |
| 15:55.40 | mgedmin | rblank, make sure you've enough free disk space in your rootfs, and remove any conflicting packages |
| 15:56.11 | mgedmin | e.g. try apt-get remove libgles1-sgx-img |
| 15:56.29 | rblank | Rootfs has 69M room. I assume that's not enough? |
| 15:56.45 | rblank | How do you find conflicting packages? |
| 15:56.51 | MohammadAG51 | it is i think |
| 15:57.03 | MohammadAG51 | apt-get --dist-upgrade |
| 15:57.10 | MohammadAG51 | see what it says, then ctrl+c |
| 15:57.15 | rblank | The size of the update was given as 83M |
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| 15:57.34 | mgedmin | 69M is plenty of space |
| 15:57.43 | rblank | # apt-get --dist-upgrade |
| 15:57.44 | rblank | E: Sense dist is not understood, try true or false. |
| 15:57.49 | GNUtoo|laptop | hi, in supertux for maemo there is that in the changelog: |
| 15:57.52 | mgedmin | apt-get dist-upgrade failed to give me any useful information |
| 15:58.04 | mgedmin | people on this channel suggested apt-get remove libgles1-sgx-img, which helped |
| 15:58.09 | GNUtoo|laptop | supertux-stable (0.1.3-1.1maemo6) stable; urgency=low * Enable access to the pause menu using SDLK_BACKSPACE and touching the screen |
| 15:58.16 | GNUtoo|laptop | how do I extract a patch of that |
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| 15:59.52 | rblank | apt-get dist-upgrade gives me lists of packages that will be removed, installed, and upgraded. |
| 15:59.57 | PaulFertser | iksaif: btw, i do not exactly like /opt/lugdugov/bin/ for the binary, that seems inconsistent and violating usual pathname policies. |
| 16:00.17 | rblank | 45MB of additional space will be used. That seems ok. Nothing about dependencies, though. |
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| 16:00.30 | mgedmin | PaulFertser, have you read the FHS? |
| 16:01.00 | mgedmin | "Programs to be invoked by users must be located in the directory /opt/<package>/bin" |
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| 16:01.01 | PaulFertser | mgedmin: yes. |
| 16:01.21 | PaulFertser | mgedmin: ah, ok, let it be so. I'm not sure how i'm supposed to add all those to PATH tough. |
| 16:01.39 | mgedmin | good question |
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| 16:02.29 | rblank | "apt-get check" says that everything is ok. |
| 16:02.55 | mgedmin | symlinks like /usr/bin/progname -> /opt/package/bin/progname ? |
| 16:03.08 | iksaif | mgedmin: the program is launched using the application/<package>.desktop which specify the absolute binary path |
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| 16:03.18 | iksaif | but it's not really clean .. |
| 16:03.23 | mgedmin | why do you say so? |
| 16:03.34 | iksaif | oups PaulFertser not mgedmin |
| 16:03.35 | iksaif | sorry |
| 16:03.53 | PaulFertser | iksaif: i prefer when i can start programs easily from my shell prompt. |
| 16:04.00 | mgedmin | so do I |
| 16:04.06 | mgedmin | but maemo doesn't make that easy |
| 16:04.08 | iksaif | me too, I should add a symlink maybe |
| 16:04.15 | iksaif | but it's maemo rules :p |
| 16:04.22 | mgedmin | all those dbus-jumping hoops to make startup faster/etc. |
| 16:04.35 | iksaif | you can install lugdulov on your std linux box if you want, it will be in /usr/bin :) |
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| 16:05.37 | wazd | Heya all |
| 16:05.54 | PaulFertser | iksaif: mgedmin read http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html and it's written "Packages may provide "front-end" files intended to be placed in [/opt/bin]" |
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| 16:10.05 | iksaif | hum PaulFertser I think they tought the flag would be zeroed because the instance is allocated using Q_GLOBAL_STATIC |
| 16:10.10 | iksaif | but when threads are enabled |
| 16:10.14 | Chani | anyone remember what the problem was with getting a data plan for an n900? |
| 16:10.15 | iksaif | Q_GLOBAL_STATIC call new |
| 16:10.22 | iksaif | and doesn't use a real static var |
| 16:10.28 | iksaif | (which would be zeroed) |
| 16:11.38 | Chani | remembers there being some sort of problem in canada, and is hoping it doesn't apply to european networks |
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| 16:12.52 | PaulFertser | iksaif: btw, zeroing it in debugger is not exactly easy, i've no debug packages for it installed. |
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| 16:13.17 | iksaif | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:13.19 | iksaif | hum right |
| 16:13.19 | Jucato | Chani: dare I repeat dfaure's reply in here :) |
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| 16:13.27 | Jucato | oh wait, wrong channel lol |
| 16:13.38 | PaulFertser | iksaif: i'll try in assembyl though, doesn't seem too hard. |
| 16:13.40 | iksaif | the var should be on the stack .. somewhere :p |
| 16:13.49 | iksaif | hum |
| 16:13.51 | iksaif | on the heap |
| 16:14.01 | iksaif | if it was on the stack, it would be zeroed |
| 16:14.29 | iksaif | (static storage is on the stack right ?) |
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| 16:15.30 | TiagoTiago | hi |
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| 16:16.06 | mgedmin | afair static storage is in the bss section (neither stack nor heap), and is zeroed on startup |
| 16:16.12 | TiagoTiago | I forgot, where do i find the setting for which connections can be connected automaticly? |
| 16:17.49 | PaulFertser | iksaif: yes, helps here. Need gdb log? |
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| 16:18.14 | TiagoTiago_ | oops |
| 16:18.38 | iksaif | PaulFertser: yep please |
| 16:19.09 | iksaif | need to go, but I'll get the log later in my irc logs |
| 16:19.13 | iksaif | thanks for your help |
| 16:19.24 | iksaif | See http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-646 for the reported issue |
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| 16:21.47 | PaulFertser | iksaif: http://paste.debian.net/98658/ |
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| 16:31.58 | MohammadAG51 | Sigh, so many Internal errors |
| 16:32.05 | MohammadAG51 | on 1.3 |
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| 16:41.32 | TiagoTiago | I forgot, where do i find the setting for which connections can be connected automaticly? |
| 16:41.57 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: GUI or shell? |
| 16:42.50 | chem|st | and are you looking for the general setting autoconnection? |
| 16:43.01 | TiagoTiago | on the N900 |
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| 16:43.14 | TiagoTiago | it was a file somewhere i think |
| 16:43.26 | chem|st | what a surprise in #maemo |
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| 16:43.33 | chem|st | gconf |
| 16:44.11 | ShadowJK | settings - internet? |
| 16:44.23 | chem|st | for GUI ^^ |
| 16:44.42 | TiagoTiago | I'm looking for this list that had the connections that shhould be connected when avaiable (or perhaps it was the opposite, the connecttions that shouldn't be connected automaticly) |
| 16:44.54 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: I honestly don"t know which of all the connection settings you are looking for |
| 16:45.49 | TiagoTiago | i remember learning about it when i was reading somthing about creating "dummy" connections |
| 16:46.02 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: there's a "autoconnect to WLAN if available" |
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| 16:46.42 | ShadowJK | that's switch to wlan |
| 16:46.50 | DocScrutinizer | and AIUI it will use all the WLANs you previously used and thus configured |
| 16:46.51 | TiagoTiago | i'm looking for the setting for individual connections |
| 16:47.17 | DocScrutinizer | I'm in doubt there's such a setting |
| 16:47.50 | MohammadAG51 | hmm |
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| 16:48.04 | MohammadAG51 | i get a weird vibration when i click the calendar widget |
| 16:48.10 | TiagoTiago | you can use that setting to prevent dummy connections and adhoc from autoconnecting |
| 16:48.53 | TiagoTiago | it's cursed |
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| 16:50.40 | MohammadAG51 | ponders if the community SSU should hold latest stock or latest stock + matan patches |
| 16:51.33 | TiagoTiago | whats the point in having a comunity SSU if its just the same as the manufacturer's ? |
| 16:51.57 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: if not both then matan |
| 16:52.16 | rblank | Ooh, the "Updating" tab of the "Application details" for the update actually tells which package conflicts. Here it was "libqt4-test", installed by PyQt4. Uninstalling the latter allows the upgrade to proceed. |
| 16:52.24 | TiagoTiago | btw, what about the improvements avaiable n the power kernel? |
| 16:52.32 | MohammadAG51 | TiagoTiago, PR1.3 has old packages |
| 16:53.02 | MohammadAG51 | i won't try to add kernel-power, it change too many things from stock |
| 16:53.23 | MohammadAG51 | while mhd is pretty much the same if not configured |
| 16:53.29 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: gconftool-2 -a /system/osso/connectivity/network_type |
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| 16:54.10 | MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, does the SSU allow community patches like Matan's? |
| 16:54.15 | MohammadAG51 | they're very stable |
| 16:54.17 | DocScrutinizer | all the power to mhd until it actually ats up and breaks anything |
| 16:54.27 | DocScrutinizer | acts* |
| 16:54.35 | MohammadAG51 | it's |
| 16:54.41 | TiagoTiago | how do i use that to define which connections can and can't autoconnect? |
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| 16:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | gconftool c'mon it's self explaining XP |
| 16:56.00 | TiagoTiago | :( |
| 16:56.06 | DocScrutinizer | ~nuke g* |
| 16:56.06 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at g* ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 16:56.30 | MohammadAG51 | gnome ftw |
| 16:56.33 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: you set it vie settings->internet connections->connect automatically |
| 16:56.34 | DocScrutinizer | #DEFINE tracker gtracker |
| 16:56.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~nuke g* |
| 16:56.43 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at g* ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 16:58.00 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer do you want it to come? |
| 16:58.03 | chem|st | values are empty for no auto, WLAN_INFRA for wifi, * for any and GPRS for mobile inet |
| 16:58.12 | ZogG | that you point all your missles to G dot =) |
| 16:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | gets nostalgic about the times where real hackers and not gnomes coded real unix tools |
| 16:58.50 | TiagoTiago | that setting doesn't deal with individual connections |
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| 17:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | not to say KDE4 is *any* better |
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| 17:01.08 | MohammadAG | tries unity |
| 17:01.09 | MohammadAG | brb |
| 17:02.59 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA >> --break-key Torture-test an application by setting and unsetting a bunch of values of different types for keys on the command line. |
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| 17:03.13 | DocScrutinizer | from man gconftool-2 XP |
| 17:03.35 | ZogG | gnome sucks as kde |
| 17:03.48 | RST38h | kde sucks as gnome too, no doubt |
| 17:03.51 | DocScrutinizer | noooo, it is master of sucking |
| 17:04.20 | MohammadAG | unity's nice, for a low res screen |
| 17:04.30 | MohammadAG | meh-y on a full size laptop |
| 17:05.04 | DocScrutinizer | gnomes are windows kinks that thought "We can do THAT, on linux" |
| 17:06.18 | MohammadAG | that's kde :P |
| 17:06.21 | RST38h | Doc: Same goes for kde people |
| 17:06.49 | MohammadAG | KDE4 looks like windows 7 |
| 17:06.51 | RST38h | As to "graphical shells" they suck by definition |
| 17:06.57 | MohammadAG | or windows 7 looks like KDE4 |
| 17:06.59 | DocScrutinizer | nope, KDE was an alternative for cde, and it had *none* of the windows principles under the hood when they started |
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| 17:07.15 | RST38h | Replacing functional desktop metaphore with crappy menu systems |
| 17:07.22 | RST38h | Doc: yea, right |
| 17:07.38 | DocScrutinizer | then original team abandoned ship, and KDE4 jumped in, which is another bunch of... *beeep* |
| 17:08.48 | DocScrutinizer | gnome was invented when people thought KDE2 wasn't windowish enough for them |
| 17:09.35 | DocScrutinizer | too complex, too configurable, too few requesters and wizards |
| 17:09.48 | DocScrutinizer | so they invented gnome |
| 17:10.34 | DocScrutinizer | that's history as I like to think about it |
| 17:10.44 | RST38h | uses gnome |
| 17:10.45 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if it's all the facts |
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| 17:10.57 | RST38h | Whatever you like to think of history, it is a bit different :) |
| 17:11.09 | sivang | KDE has gone a long way,I think it is a much of a saner choice for folks who want to really use their computers to fullest |
| 17:11.24 | RST38h | allyou need is google for "gnome wiki" and read the history section |
| 17:11.37 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: has been true until and excluding KDE4 |
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| 17:14.00 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: what happened there? |
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| 17:14.30 | sivang | I've recently checked what it give on a desktop, so sure you need fairly strong machine to carry it |
| 17:14.51 | sivang | but everybody are doing this, including ubuntu wuth UNity limiting users to have acelerated graphics support |
| 17:14.59 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: KDE4 is a stinking pile of segfaulting shit, as they did a complete rewrite it seems |
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| 17:15.59 | GNUtoo|laptop | hmmm |
| 17:16.02 | GNUtoo|laptop | DocScrutinizer, hi |
| 17:16.04 | GNUtoo|laptop | oops |
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| 17:16.06 | GNUtoo|laptop | wrong channel |
| 17:16.16 | DocScrutinizer | hi nevertheless |
| 17:16.24 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: hmm, isn't this a bit harsh ;) ? |
| 17:16.39 | RST38h | Seattle investigators have discovered a cache of heavy explosives beneath a new cruise ship terminal. |
| 17:17.13 | TiagoTiago | what would happen if i tried installing ofono on the N900? |
| 17:17.46 | derf | Chaos in the streets. Dogs and cats, living together. |
| 17:17.50 | TiagoTiago | were there also fuses or the explosives were just stored there? |
| 17:18.34 | maybeArgh | oh yeh mighty n900 community |
| 17:18.44 | maybeArgh | what's a good bluetooth headset for a cheapskate like myself? |
| 17:18.45 | TiagoTiago | s/fuse/detonator/ |
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| 17:22.43 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:23.06 | iksaif | PaulFertser if you're still here, could you try with : http://xf.iksaif.net/dev/qtm/libqtm-location_1.0.2-maemo4%2b0m5_armel.deb |
| 17:23.07 | sivang | SpeedEvil: hehehe |
| 17:23.21 | PaulFertser | iksaif: sure |
| 17:28.19 | PaulFertser | iksaif: yep, works here all right. |
| 17:29.05 | iksaif | cool |
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| 17:29.14 | iksaif | I'm going to do a very ugly thing |
| 17:29.27 | iksaif | ship a fixed libQtLocation in /opt/lugdulov/lib/ |
| 17:29.34 | iksaif | and LD_LIBRARY_PATH the thing :p |
| 17:29.45 | iksaif | just to lazy to link it statically |
| 17:31.07 | TiagoTiago | i'm seeing ofono avaiable in Synaptic, will it mes things up if i ttry installing it on my N900? |
| 17:31.19 | lcuk | iksaif, have you offered a bug/patch/MR to fix the issue upstream? |
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| 17:32.28 | sjk | i bought a n900 today! |
| 17:32.36 | jacktheripper | does multiboot support btrfs ? |
| 17:32.41 | TiagoTiago | yay! :D |
| 17:32.47 | iksaif | lcuk: I'm doing it |
| 17:32.48 | jacktheripper | congrats! xD |
| 17:33.01 | lcuk | :) iksaif great stuff |
| 17:33.38 | iksaif | bug report sent, mail with patch sent to .deb maintainers, merge request will be sent later. |
| 17:34.08 | sjk | spent twenty minutes talking to the guy in the shop... got a 170 eur discount :) |
| 17:34.12 | lcuk | which tracker did you file bug with? (link?) |
| 17:35.24 | dsg | jacktheripper: No, FAT16 only (not even FAT32). |
| 17:35.43 | jacktheripper | dsg: multiboot supports ext3.. |
| 17:35.46 | dsg | (if by multiboot you mean u-boo) |
| 17:36.04 | iksaif | lcuk: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-646 |
| 17:36.12 | jacktheripper | dsg: I mean the multiboot package, don't know if it's also called u-boot. |
| 17:36.24 | dsg | jacktheripper: Oh sorry, no, that's something different. Ignore me then. :) |
| 17:36.43 | jacktheripper | dsg: haha np :D |
| 17:37.13 | TiagoTiago | do i have to change the repos' settings relacing 1.2 with 1.3 when present? |
| 17:37.38 | TiagoTiago | i mean, would there be any benefit in doing that? |
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| 17:58.08 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@117.84-48-232.nextgentel.com) |
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| 18:01.39 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.232.182) |
| 18:02.50 | Aranel | Anyone tried this yet?: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.237:_arbitrary_size_for_.2Fhome_and_MyDocs_.28PR_1.2.2F3_compatible.29 |
| 18:03.21 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-211-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 18:03.41 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, I think |
| 18:04.28 | MohammadAG | well, repartitioning /home and MyDocs anyways |
| 18:04.33 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago_ (~TiagoTiag@189-68-27-187.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 18:04.49 | *** join/#maemo Do-m-pie (~Do-m-pie@195-241-24-17.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 18:05.32 | Aranel | yup, without reflashing, if it works ok =) |
| 18:05.55 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@187.56.64.7) |
| 18:06.34 | *** join/#maemo pillar (pillar@cs181014100.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:07.46 | ruskie | Aranel, I did some similar stuff |
| 18:07.59 | ruskie | /dev/mmcblk0p2 21G 14G 5,8G 71% /home |
| 18:08.02 | ruskie | /dev/mmcblk0p4 3,7G 1002M 2,5G 29% /home/opt |
| 18:08.05 | ruskie | /dev/mmcblk0p1 4,9G 3,0G 1,7G 65% /home/user/MyDocs |
| 18:08.09 | ruskie | :) |
| 18:08.10 | *** join/#maemo Samsunix (~s.l@dsl-sjkbrasgw2-fefbf800-185.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:08.11 | *** join/#maemo hrw|uds (~hrw@conference/ubuntudevelopersummit/x-knyutfmrlfmtnxvr) |
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| 18:09.13 | Aranel | ruskie: so It went good? yay! ^^ Did you do it on a fresh install or "dirty" one? |
| 18:10.07 | *** join/#maemo Noobmonk3y (~noobmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust67.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:10.09 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) |
| 18:10.24 | ruskie | Aranel, see solution #3 on that page.. just under it's title ;) |
| 18:10.52 | ruskie | this was more or less the first thing I did when I got the n900 |
| 18:10.53 | svuorela | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:10.54 | svuorela | fail |
| 18:11.09 | ruskie | and that will be a year in a little over a monh |
| 18:11.35 | ponyofdeath | hi I am getting an pkg error about python2.5-minimal depends on pymaemo-optify any ideas how to fix? |
| 18:12.24 | Aranel | ruskie: If I rsync / from N900 to my Ubuntu box, can I return to it If I brick my precious? :) |
| 18:12.45 | ruskie | Aranel, using this most likely: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html |
| 18:12.58 | Aranel | ruskie: thank you! ^^ |
| 18:13.08 | ruskie | tough that's probably overkill for what you want |
| 18:13.18 | ruskie | unless you have data you want to backup |
| 18:14.35 | Aranel | ruskie: I'm using the same installation from the day I bought N900 (PR1.0 ~ nearly a year ago) |
| 18:14.46 | ruskie | lol |
| 18:14.56 | ruskie | I've reflashed it atleast a dozen time since then |
| 18:15.03 | Aranel | ruskie: so I would be happy to backup some data :P |
| 18:15.13 | ruskie | I should probably do a backup sometime |
| 18:16.07 | Noobmonk3y | wow Aranel ! |
| 18:16.16 | *** join/#maemo smooph1 (~smooph@e180159247.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:16.34 | Aranel | ruskie: It's a pretty stable OS. Before N900 I was using Symbian and I reflashed it at least 2 times in 6 months, I didnt do any hacks, anything bad. |
| 18:16.47 | ruskie | Aranel, yeah mine was heavily hacked first |
| 18:16.58 | ruskie | then with pr1.2 reflash I toned down the hacks |
| 18:16.59 | Aranel | Noobmonk3y: sup? :) |
| 18:17.05 | ruskie | since it's not such a stable OS |
| 18:17.10 | ruskie | it's very very fragile |
| 18:17.27 | ruskie | all the hacks I did on m5 should be survivable on any other distro... |
| 18:17.41 | Noobmonk3y | hehe was just wowing the still on 1.0 part ;) - evvvvening! |
| 18:17.42 | Aranel | ruskie: what about meego rescue initrd? It looks like a solution to "bricked" situations. |
| 18:17.49 | ruskie | Aranel, I used that today ;) |
| 18:17.50 | dRbiG | i'm still suprised that maemo actually holds together :) |
| 18:18.02 | *** join/#maemo edisson (~edisson@189.2.128.130) |
| 18:18.05 | ruskie | after I forgot to run a depmod for the new kernel ;) |
| 18:18.13 | ruskie | took me most of the day to work it out |
| 18:18.20 | Aranel | Noobmonk3y: nope I'm not on 1.0, upgraded it to 1.1.1, then 1.2 and now 1.3. It's still working ^^ |
| 18:18.24 | ruskie | since how to access ubifs is different than the rest |
| 18:18.26 | Noobmonk3y | ahh cool :P |
| 18:18.41 | ruskie | and then had to roll my own busybox with the ubiattach applets as well |
| 18:18.53 | MohammadAG | 1.0 is awesome |
| 18:19.01 | MohammadAG | was* |
| 18:19.29 | Samsunix | Eny idea how to get live-wallpaper working on maemo ? |
| 18:19.38 | ruskie | what's that? |
| 18:19.55 | Samsunix | mmm... it's like aero on windows 7 (living wallpaper) |
| 18:20.04 | Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: Trout 1.0 was better ;) |
| 18:20.04 | Aranel | ruskie: It would be great If you write a HOWTO document for it :) |
| 18:20.05 | Samsunix | android has one |
| 18:20.07 | ruskie | again what's that |
| 18:20.12 | Noobmonk3y | the N900 was just missing gills :( |
| 18:20.20 | GAN900 | Samsunix, install Live Wallpaper. |
| 18:20.37 | Samsunix | mmm... |
| 18:20.44 | ruskie | Aranel, erm? I'm more thinking of providing an initrd and a kernel to be smart enough to restore |
| 18:20.46 | *** join/#maemo dolp (dolphin@cs181202191.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:20.47 | MohammadAG | wants an electric guitar |
| 18:20.58 | MohammadAG | anyone feel like giving me one? :P |
| 18:21.04 | ruskie | I'm also hoping the new dual-boot method that pr1.3 introduces could be usable there |
| 18:21.20 | MohammadAG | I just a way to write to /dev/mtd5 cleanly |
| 18:21.29 | MohammadAG | then we can flash rootfss on device |
| 18:21.36 | ruskie | ?? |
| 18:21.36 | Noobmonk3y | :| ? |
| 18:21.41 | Aranel | ruskie: ^^ I hope so. |
| 18:21.41 | Samsunix | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/live-wallpaper/ these ? |
| 18:21.45 | Samsunix | shit it's booring |
| 18:21.52 | Samsunix | and dosnt look cool |
| 18:22.15 | Aranel | Samsunix: sorry If I misunderstood you, but why don't you use HAM if you want to install some app? Doesn't it work? |
| 18:22.20 | MohammadAG | then make uboot boot a recovery OS, that allows me to select an image from a 200MB partition |
| 18:22.27 | Noobmonk3y | ahhh i get it! |
| 18:22.29 | Noobmonk3y | i likies |
| 18:22.56 | Samsunix | aranel it does |
| 18:22.57 | MohammadAG | ponders nand_write |
| 18:23.00 | ruskie | MohammadAG, something like that is what I was thinking... |
| 18:23.12 | Aranel | MohammadAG: I'm a huge fan of you. Just wanted to say it. :D |
| 18:23.14 | MohammadAG | ruskie, I know :P |
| 18:23.25 | ruskie | but I don't know how to do the uboot magic |
| 18:23.31 | MohammadAG | lol fanks :P |
| 18:23.33 | ruskie | that's what I'd like to have first |
| 18:23.41 | MohammadAG | ruskie, make the SD bootable |
| 18:23.42 | ruskie | just to boot into the main OS |
| 18:23.48 | MohammadAG | but that's not a difficulty |
| 18:24.01 | ruskie | basically want a menu to pick an OS |
| 18:24.03 | MohammadAG | writing to the ubifs blocks is harder |
| 18:24.09 | MohammadAG | dd kills em |
| 18:24.19 | ruskie | ubiattach |
| 18:24.21 | MohammadAG | pokes Stskeeps |
| 18:24.25 | ruskie | mount /dev/ubi0 |
| 18:24.37 | ruskie | write to it |
| 18:24.45 | MohammadAG | that's not flashing though is it :P |
| 18:25.02 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 18:25.02 | MohammadAG | technically |
| 18:25.13 | MohammadAG | err, s/technically/actually/ |
| 18:25.16 | MohammadAG | you have a point |
| 18:25.19 | ruskie | :) |
| 18:25.23 | MohammadAG | mount /dev/mtd5, you don't need to attach |
| 18:25.28 | ruskie | you need to attach |
| 18:25.33 | MohammadAG | then tar -xzvf a tar with permissions kept |
| 18:25.36 | ruskie | can't mount it directly |
| 18:25.38 | MohammadAG | ruskie, not on device :) |
| 18:25.44 | MohammadAG | you can |
| 18:25.45 | ruskie | I did it on the device |
| 18:25.47 | ruskie | just today |
| 18:25.48 | ruskie | using meego |
| 18:25.52 | MohammadAG | mount ubi0:rootfs /mnt |
| 18:26.05 | ruskie | yeah... but to get that working you need ubifsattach |
| 18:26.12 | ruskie | else you don't get ubi0 |
| 18:26.20 | MohammadAG | interesting |
| 18:26.29 | ruskie | and the meego busybox lacks that |
| 18:26.33 | MohammadAG | i got it on ubuntu 9.10 without using ubiattach |
| 18:26.47 | MohammadAG | kernel differences I suppose |
| 18:27.41 | ruskie | I'd like to make a full blown recovery initrd that one could put on an sdcard to load it through uboot(which I'm assuming one could enter stuff) |
| 18:27.41 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-211-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 18:28.03 | ruskie | but the uboot kernel should be on the device |
| 18:28.14 | MohammadAG | or on the SD card |
| 18:28.24 | ruskie | I don't want it there... atleast not as primary |
| 18:28.41 | MohammadAG | why? uboot boots the kernel from SD |
| 18:28.58 | ruskie | I want the choice of SD or internal |
| 18:29.12 | ruskie | in uboot |
| 18:29.33 | MohammadAG | wonders how xchat plugins work |
| 18:29.41 | mgedmin | MohammadAG, badly |
| 18:30.10 | mgedmin | on every xchat startup on my laptop I get an error from a plugin: xchat_print called without a valid context. |
| 18:30.21 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.232.182) |
| 18:31.14 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, works quite well :P |
| 18:31.17 | Myrtti | irssi ftw ⥠|
| 18:31.19 | MohammadAG | I guess it depends on the script |
| 18:31.38 | Myrtti | I've tried using xchat couple of times |
| 18:31.53 | mgedmin | tried learning irssi a couple of times, felt too old for that |
| 18:31.57 | Myrtti | I usually end up wanting to stab something, and am happy to have my irssi back |
| 18:32.02 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:32.52 | *** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@134.134.139.70) |
| 18:33.23 | MohammadAG | felt too young for irssi :P |
| 18:33.34 | MohammadAG | it annoyed me in some places |
| 18:33.34 | Myrtti | http://irssi.org/themefiles/dark_winter.png pink ⥠|
| 18:34.00 | MohammadAG | keeps forgetting you're a she lol |
| 18:34.04 | ruskie | lol |
| 18:34.43 | ruskie | http://ruskie.codemages.net/scry/index.php/view/44/misc/screen1.png <-- that's mine same one for years |
| 18:35.20 | mgedmin | ruskie, is that a horrible font, or a horribly scaled image? |
| 18:35.36 | ruskie | mgedmin, click on the link under the image |
| 18:35.37 | slonopotamus | Myrtti: ubuntu-offtopi ?! |
| 18:35.56 | slonopotamus | ah, channel name |
| 18:36.17 | Myrtti | slonopotamus: yes, from years gone by |
| 18:36.49 | RST38h | mooo heffalump, myrtti |
| 18:36.53 | RST38h | mgedmin too |
| 18:37.01 | Myrtti | moooo |
| 18:39.40 | slonopotamus | mumbles incomprehensively |
| 18:39.45 | RST38h | notices that other people present are not old enough farts to compare |
| 18:39.47 | Myrtti | a bit bored, considering continuing on the biography of Alfred Nobel, tipping my toes in some coding or getting a döner |
| 18:40.09 | RST38h | ircii, inside ssh, green-on-black, no colors or highlighting support |
| 18:40.20 | Myrtti | RST38h: tried that. Wasn't too much fun |
| 18:40.34 | RST38h | is kinda used to it, using it since 1991 |
| 18:40.40 | ruskie | mgedmin, the font I've been using for years now in terms is Aerial Mono and I love that font... even made the n900 use it now |
| 18:40.51 | RST38h | actually, I should probably make it 1993 |
| 18:41.07 | Myrtti | RST38h: we had the difficult decision back in school to pick between 16-bit and 32-bit mIRC |
| 18:41.21 | Myrtti | and that scary trumpet winsock was looming in the background |
| 18:41.39 | lcuk | Myrtti, get the kebab, read a book |
| 18:41.53 | RST38h | Myrtti: When Mardambey's children laid waste on the IRC, it was already considered the end of the *true* IRC experience :) |
| 18:41.59 | slonopotamus | has just reinvented Aho-Corasick algorihm and feels depressed because wanted to name it by himself |
| 18:42.08 | Myrtti | RST38h: *shrug* I was 16 then |
| 18:42.19 | RST38h | slono: You can always change your name to Aho Corasick |
| 18:42.33 | slonopotamus | RST38h: i think that's two people |
| 18:42.39 | RST38h | Myrtti: Shit. Now I *really* feel like an old fart :) |
| 18:42.44 | RST38h | slono: Will it matter? |
| 18:44.07 | slonopotamus | RST38h: meh, easier to invent something different |
| 18:44.09 | Myrtti | RST38h: I had a revelation today though, a minor celebrity known mainly for being a bad singer, bad striptease act and having poor judgement on men announced she's pregnant and is going to be a wonderful mum at age 32 - I've always thought she was well over 40... I feel a bit relieved and less fretty about my own age now |
| 18:44.15 | *** join/#maemo anunakin (~anunakin@187.124.35.158) |
| 18:44.38 | Myrtti | OMG! how cute http://instagr.am/p/GTNQ/ |
| 18:44.50 | RST38h | slono: [state-of-factly] Ahuy Harassick not taken yet. |
| 18:45.25 | RST38h | Myrtti: Sudden recognition of the character you are talking about made me feel even worse. |
| 18:45.31 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.232.182) |
| 18:45.47 | RST38h | Myrtti: But there is a redeeming factor there: I have not heard a single song by her. :) |
| 18:46.20 | Myrtti | RST38h: I doubt you know her really, unless you're a connoisseur of 3rd rate Finnish wannabe celebs |
| 18:46.28 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~dvaske@nat/nokia/x-yhzurhoinmuipigi) |
| 18:46.45 | Myrtti | I certainly wish I'd know less |
| 18:48.13 | RST38h | Mariah Carey |
| 18:48.19 | Myrtti | yeah, not her |
| 18:48.24 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-211-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 18:48.33 | Myrtti | MC looks fairly decent |
| 18:48.39 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 18:48.51 | Myrtti | and she can actually sing, even if her music isn't to everyones liking. |
| 18:48.54 | RST38h | Oh, this means they are getting pregnant in droves |
| 18:49.15 | RST38h | heya javispedro |
| 18:49.56 | javispedro | hi |
| 18:50.07 | Myrtti | "FireShepherd floods the wireless network with packets to turn off FireSheep" have to agree with Hyppönen, I'm not too sure if that is such a good idea... |
| 18:50.43 | RST38h | Depends on the way you construct a packet |
| 18:50.59 | Myrtti | but Firesheep isn't the problem |
| 18:51.02 | Myrtti | *shrug* |
| 18:51.06 | javispedro | why, oh, why gitorious doesn't have a bugtracker |
| 18:51.31 | RST38h | Yea, but they cannot fix the actual problem (no https support by many sites) |
| 18:51.46 | RST38h | javis: so that you cannot bother developers with your petty reports? =) |
| 18:52.06 | javispedro | RST38h: it is way more easier to ignore a bug report than to ignore a pm storm =) |
| 18:52.28 | RST38h | Meanwhile:Stopping Malaria By Immunizing Mosquitoes |
| 18:52.39 | RST38h | javispedro: both are easy |
| 18:53.14 | alterego | contemplates working on mixing QML and GLES 2.0 |
| 18:54.46 | Myrtti | damned flashplugin |
| 18:54.54 | *** join/#maemo dion (~dion@193.104.35.153) |
| 18:55.03 | Myrtti | just randomly the loads on my lappy skyrocket :-( |
| 18:55.17 | javispedro | even Adobe is trying to ditch flash |
| 18:55.52 | dion | guys, could anybody suggest. For some reason pulseaudio doesn't starts on my n900 during boot. So there is no sound.. where it should start? |
| 18:56.19 | dion | /etc/event.replace.d/pulseaudio exists.. but who will call it? |
| 18:56.41 | javispedro | on upstart, the file itself should say when it starts |
| 18:56.49 | javispedro | (in what I can only call one of the most horrible features ever made) |
| 18:57.06 | MohammadAG | javispedro, is there a way to disable desktop composition outside fullscreen? |
| 18:57.16 | javispedro | MohammadAG: killing h-d |
| 18:57.22 | dion | javispedro: any way to debug it? I've verified that I can start pulseaudio by hands |
| 18:57.23 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) |
| 18:57.37 | MohammadAG | err |
| 18:57.40 | javispedro | MohammadAG: do touch /etc/no_dsme_reboots or whatever that file is called these days |
| 18:58.27 | *** join/#maemo fab (~bellet@bellet.info) |
| 18:58.29 | MohammadAG | I don't have the watchdog enabled anyways |
| 18:58.34 | MohammadAG | I can run the N900 without X |
| 18:58.38 | javispedro | good |
| 18:59.17 | javispedro | dion: nope, but you might want to install syslog and see if it says anthing remotely useful |
| 18:59.27 | javispedro | s/nope/none that I know of |
| 19:00.15 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.232.182) |
| 19:00.32 | *** join/#maemo kkb1101 (~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU) |
| 19:02.36 | MohammadAG | The window manager applies compositing for all top-level windows by default. This behavior can be disabled by setting the Qt::WA_Maemo5NonComposited widget attribute on a top-level widget. javispedro what about this? |
| 19:02.47 | javispedro | old |
| 19:02.55 | javispedro | prePR 1.1 not even fullscreen windows were composited |
| 19:03.27 | javispedro | so to get any sane performance drnoksnes had to set that property |
| 19:03.38 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 19:03.41 | MohammadAG | javispedro, so the app _has_ to be fs to be non composited... |
| 19:03.43 | javispedro | *were uncomposited, sorry. |
| 19:03.55 | ds3 | is it me or did the latest update made some things faster? |
| 19:04.04 | javispedro | MohammadAG: obvious reasons: the titlebar is drawn via OpenGL. |
| 19:04.06 | dion | javispedro: got it.. it looks like the issue was disk full on / |
| 19:04.11 | messerting | ~pr1.3 |
| 19:04.12 | infobot | pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 |
| 19:04.12 | javispedro | MohammadAG: so, no OpenGL, no title bar. |
| 19:04.15 | MohammadAG | ds3, yeah, trolls leaving |
| 19:04.56 | ds3 | MohammadAG: no, this is actual use. mail seems to no get wedged as much either |
| 19:04.57 | *** join/#maemo citn (~cristian@95-36-104-0.dsl.alice.nl) |
| 19:05.23 | *** part/#maemo dion (~dion@193.104.35.153) |
| 19:05.28 | ds3 | I just don't have enough run time to find out if it is faster or I haven't pushed it hard enough |
| 19:05.35 | *** join/#maemo dion (~dion@193.104.35.153) |
| 19:05.43 | MohammadAG | ds3, I use Nokia Messaging, so modest was pretty fast for me |
| 19:05.50 | MohammadAG | but yeah, I guess it is faster |
| 19:05.55 | ds3 | ah I se |
| 19:06.14 | ds3 | previously I had to killall modest daily to keep receiving mail (I'm on POP) |
| 19:07.28 | RST38h | ds2: that is pre-pr12 |
| 19:08.00 | ds3 | RST38h: for me it was 1.2 only... pre1.2 didn't wedge as much |
| 19:08.11 | RST38h | weird |
| 19:08.13 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 19:08.21 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 19:08.57 | ds3 | I was pleasantly surprised when a Maemo upgrade showed up in app mgr AND things felt faster after the reboot |
| 19:09.01 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-211-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 19:09.07 | *** join/#maemo hrw|uds (~hrw@conference/ubuntudevelopersummit/x-lrrmqtlciqslavhg) |
| 19:09.57 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 19:10.07 | messerting | I don't understand this; I have too little rootfs space to upgrade to 1.3, but after uninstalling about 60MB of apps, I still only have about 30MB free? |
| 19:11.21 | RST38h | we do not know. it is magic. |
| 19:11.28 | ruskie | messerting, apt-get clean |
| 19:11.30 | ruskie | messerting, also try a reboot |
| 19:11.31 | javispedro | and reboot |
| 19:11.47 | joga | most programs don't go to root |
| 19:11.59 | messerting | ok, will do apt-get clean. Have rebooted |
| 19:12.17 | MohammadAG | most apps you uninstalled are probably installed to /opt |
| 19:12.17 | maybeArgh | so i was playing asphalt5... and it was a bit choppy :/ |
| 19:12.27 | maybeArgh | but then i noticed i still had xplane running in the background all the time \o/ |
| 19:12.35 | ruskie | lol |
| 19:12.44 | MohammadAG | asphalt 5? |
| 19:12.46 | MohammadAG | preenv? |
| 19:12.49 | maybeArgh | yeah |
| 19:13.21 | joga | there ought to be some oneliner to list package names of all programs that reside on rootfs sorted by size ;) |
| 19:13.27 | messerting | MohammadAG: ok, that explains it. Will dig around in the filesystem to find what apps are in / |
| 19:13.58 | MohammadAG | messerting, du -h in /usr |
| 19:14.11 | MohammadAG | I think DocScrutinizer said | sort -n works |
| 19:14.18 | MohammadAG | so du -h | sort -n | more |
| 19:14.19 | messerting | MohammadAG: 350.9M /usr |
| 19:14.22 | joga | with -h it's not consistent |
| 19:14.29 | MohammadAG | cd bin |
| 19:14.29 | DocScrutinizer | du -x /|sort -n |
| 19:14.45 | MohammadAG | ty DocScrutinizer |
| 19:15.06 | DocScrutinizer | -x for not traversing filesystems |
| 19:15.27 | MohammadAG | meh, ignore | more |
| 19:15.29 | DocScrutinizer | sort numeric won't work on du -h |
| 19:15.36 | MohammadAG | it sorts from smallest to large |
| 19:15.45 | joga | you can reverse it with sort -nr |
| 19:15.47 | mgedmin | messerting, try sync; that used to help |
| 19:15.57 | *** join/#maemo schend (~suresh@nat/nokia/x-rnikuwksprezaeia) |
| 19:16.34 | messerting | ok, I'll uninstall emacs now ;) |
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| 19:18.45 | mgedmin | also, best way to free up a dozen megs is to temporarily disable application catalogues |
| 19:18.48 | mgedmin | such as extras |
| 19:18.56 | mgedmin | /var/lib/apt takes a bunch of space |
| 19:19.08 | mgedmin | for package lists |
| 19:19.26 | messerting | mgedmin: but apt-get clean fixes that, right? |
| 19:19.29 | mgedmin | no |
| 19:19.30 | RST38h | you can move it to mmd |
| 19:19.31 | mgedmin | never |
| 19:19.32 | RST38h | mmc |
| 19:19.39 | mgedmin | apt-get clean cleans /var/cache/apt/archives |
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| 19:19.57 | messerting | whoa, emacs took 77MB |
| 19:19.58 | mgedmin | moved his /var/lib/apt to /opt somewhere |
| 19:20.29 | javispedro | pfft. |
| 19:20.39 | javispedro | I just got a "maintainer request" for one package of mine from a guy |
| 19:20.42 | javispedro | a) I don't know |
| 19:20.43 | messerting | my /var/lib/apt/ take only 7.4MB |
| 19:20.44 | javispedro | b) has 3 karma points |
| 19:21.04 | javispedro | all of them come from the default garage project |
| 19:21.06 | RST38h | javis: does he know what maintaining a packqge is? |
| 19:21.30 | javispedro | RST38h: no idea, as the "maintainer request" doesn't force users to at least fill a textfield with some explanation |
| 19:21.39 | javispedro | it's just clickety click, confirm, go |
| 19:21.46 | javispedro | spam. |
| 19:22.00 | pupnik_ | heyy javispedro |
| 19:22.06 | javispedro | hi pupnik_ |
| 19:22.11 | *** join/#maemo vibe_ (~vibe_@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-ff0bc000-164.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:22.28 | javispedro | so, getting a Pandaboard? |
| 19:22.33 | pupnik_ | is sdl + gl a way to get portable 3D between n900 and x86? |
| 19:22.42 | messerting | ~flashing |
| 19:22.43 | infobot | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:22.46 | pupnik_ | dunno javispedro |
| 19:22.50 | javispedro | pupnik_: you'd also need GLES emulation libraries in x86 |
| 19:23.06 | *** part/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 19:23.07 | javispedro | pupnik_: with that, you could patch SDL_gles to use those and build in on x86, then yes. |
| 19:23.16 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 19:23.19 | pupnik_ | that could be useful, no? |
| 19:23.33 | javispedro | something like that is already used by for ex. the palm sdk |
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| 19:23.40 | pupnik_ | http://i.imgur.com/Do9RA.png my latest music 'shader' |
| 19:23.50 | *** part/#maemo dion (~dion@193.104.35.153) |
| 19:24.06 | pupnik_ | hm |
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| 19:24.29 | javispedro | pupnik_: as said you should make those winamp or gstreamer visualizations :) |
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| 19:25.12 | pupnik_ | not hard to do |
| 19:25.18 | messerting | I'm confused: In one of the links given by ~pr1.3, it says I should apt-get dist-upgrade, but in the title here, it says I shouldn't. Is it okay if I do "apt-get update;apt-get install maemo-sdk-opt" first? |
| 19:26.07 | javispedro | what are you trying to update, a sdk or the device? |
| 19:26.23 | javispedro | for the sdk, both apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade would be fine |
| 19:26.35 | javispedro | for the device, suggested is to use h-a-m |
| 19:27.14 | hrw|uds | ~pr1.3 |
| 19:27.14 | infobot | pr1.3 is, like, the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 |
| 19:27.24 | messerting | javispedro: I'd like to update only the device to pr1.3. I'll go with h-a-m |
| 19:27.47 | MohammadAG | javispedro, how do I graphically accelerate my SDK? |
| 19:27.48 | javispedro | that infobot fact should be changed, sdk release notes can confuse newbs |
| 19:27.54 | MohammadAG | tried to make what you gave me, got some errors |
| 19:27.56 | hrw|uds | javispedro: do that then? |
| 19:28.03 | messerting | ok, I see now that what I read was for the sdk :) |
| 19:28.27 | MohammadAG | ~no infobot, pr1.3 is not http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 |
| 19:28.27 | infobot | MohammadAG: okay |
| 19:28.35 | MohammadAG | ~pr1.3 |
| 19:28.35 | infobot | pr1.3 is probably not http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 |
| 19:28.47 | MohammadAG | facepalms |
| 19:28.57 | javispedro | ~pr1.3 |
| 19:28.57 | infobot | pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update |
| 19:29.13 | hrw|uds | thx javispedro |
| 19:29.15 | javispedro | there's no wiki page for "fixing" h-a-m to link to, though |
| 19:29.37 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-211-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 19:29.42 | hrw|uds | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/10/29/i-got-efika-mx-smartbook-from-genesi/ |
| 19:29.59 | *** join/#maemo l13tl3 (~l13tl3@95-30-116-193.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 19:30.23 | javispedro | ~pr1.3 |
| 19:30.23 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update |
| 19:30.31 | javispedro | linking to wiki instead of nokia.com |
| 19:31.15 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I admit it is hard to setup, you should check the original vmgl docs as I did not write any =) |
| 19:31.52 | *** join/#maemo ebzzry (~ebzzry@112.210.232.182) |
| 19:32.24 | javispedro | ... not to mention it's starting to bitrot, I wouldn't be surprised if it does not build in uber recent xorg versions |
| 19:33.05 | MohammadAG | meh, nvm then :P |
| 19:33.15 | MohammadAG | The SDK runs fast enough on an i5 |
| 19:33.42 | javispedro | btw, if you see the video, you'll note that vmgl does not have support for shaders |
| 19:33.48 | javispedro | so the background blur effect does not work |
| 19:33.50 | javispedro | subtle :) |
| 19:34.07 | GAN900 | PR1.3 is so lame they didn't even bother with a changelog this time. |
| 19:35.13 | chx | um |
| 19:35.26 | chx | GAN900: you do realize that QT 4.7 is a huge, huge deal? |
| 19:35.40 | hrw|uds | chx: qt 4.7 was already available for maemo5 |
| 19:35.50 | chx | easier if built in, no? |
| 19:35.59 | hrw|uds | no big deal, really |
| 19:36.05 | GAN900 | chx, Maemo 5 is only incidental to it and PR1.3, though. |
| 19:36.06 | javispedro | yes, but not exactly mind boggling work from nokia :) |
| 19:36.16 | GAN900 | javispedro, +++++ |
| 19:36.23 | chx | pfffft, Nokia and mind boggling? |
| 19:36.23 | ioan | is the power kernel updated to the last version (the one from PR1.3)? |
| 19:36.29 | chx | you are in the wrong decade for that. |
| 19:36.35 | GAN900 | chx, in summary, Nokia still sucks. |
| 19:36.45 | chx | there is no doubt to THAT |
| 19:36.57 | javispedro | 's wireless mouse batteries run out.. can't focus outside irc, dammit! |
| 19:37.01 | javispedro | /quit |
| 19:37.02 | GAN900 | Well, good that we're clear then. |
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| 19:47.50 | BCMM | is fcam working in 1.3? |
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| 19:51.46 | Aranel | How can I force fsck? I'm using 1.6 gb of /home but I got only 70meg free, so I wonder where did other 300~ go, I want to do fsck. |
| 19:52.57 | Myrtti | traditionally fsck is forced by making a file called forcefsck in the root of the partition |
| 19:53.04 | mgedmin | Aranel, have you tried du -x /home yet? |
| 19:53.06 | Myrtti | but don't know if it works on N900 |
| 19:53.29 | Aranel | mgedmin: saw it on Storage Usage. Wait a min, I'm doing it :) |
| 19:55.04 | Aranel | Myrtti: yup I know it works on my Ubuntu box but I'm pretty sure it's not working on N900. |
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| 19:56.20 | Aranel | 1873344 /home and 73.0 Free. Hmm, now It's reasonable. Storage Usage confused me. Thanks for the tip ^^ |
| 19:56.49 | *** join/#maemo Dregs (~Dregs@adsl-108-68-80-241.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:57.02 | Aranel | but I'm still curious about can't I run fsck on N900, can I? |
| 19:58.40 | *** join/#maemo Rhoruns (Rhoruns@ip98-165-94-55.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:58.41 | mgedmin | maybe you can |
| 19:58.47 | mgedmin | I've no idea how... |
| 19:58.56 | mgedmin | umount /home will likely complain about it being used |
| 19:59.09 | mgedmin | dual-boot meego from sd card, run fsck that way |
| 19:59.10 | mgedmin | ? |
| 19:59.25 | mgedmin | fsck on a mounted partition == extremely unhealthy |
| 19:59.50 | *** join/#maemo lpjhjdh (~chris@vpn.syncroness.com) |
| 20:00.10 | *** join/#maemo Dompie (~Do-m-pie@195-241-24-17.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 20:00.13 | lpjhjdh | would a general cross compilation question be kosher here? |
| 20:00.15 | Aranel | hmm yeah maybe dual-booting can help, so I can fsck rootfs too. |
| 20:00.27 | lpjhjdh | libtool is making me cry |
| 20:01.12 | lpjhjdh | trying to cross compile glib and since prefix=/usr it's picking up my host libdl rather than my $ROOTFS/lib/libdl despite -rpath-link and -L$ROOTFS/lib/libdl |
| 20:01.18 | lpjhjdh | any recommendations? |
| 20:01.23 | *** join/#maemo spinningcompass (~hugo@adsl-99-116-210-234.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:01.43 | lpjhjdh | I'm also using LIBTOOL=arm-none-linux-gnueabi-libtool |
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| 20:03.54 | messerting | It seems I've got every locale installed on my device. Can I uninstall the languages I don't use? 22MB in /usr/lib/locale and 12MB in /usr/share/locale |
| 20:07.00 | *** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@nat/intel/x-rmmmnnkrnlepxlfy) |
| 20:08.04 | BCMM | ~flashing |
| 20:08.04 | infobot | flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 20:11.48 | *** join/#maemo jasd (~dj@unaffiliated/jasd) |
| 20:12.38 | BCMM | am i right in thinking that "flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R" won't touch the contents of ~/MyDocs? |
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| 20:21.00 | TiagoTiago | this can't be a good sign |
| 20:21.06 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-211-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 20:21.37 | makis | is someone using man-db package from extras-devel? when I type man ls Im getting error "pager: applet not found. man: command exit with status 256: pager -s" |
| 20:22.00 | *** join/#maemo asj_ (~asj@203-214-127-191.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 20:22.10 | TiagoTiago | last boot, whenever i went to or from the apps menu instead of the backgrounf blurring i saw random triangles flashing in the bacckground (like "polygon tearing") |
| 20:22.36 | TiagoTiago | i rebooted and it stopped happening, but that it happened at all still worries me |
| 20:23.57 | Noobmonk3y | may have figured out qt layouts!!! -> dont use them! |
| 20:24.17 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 20:24.58 | Noobmonk3y | 5 days trying to get one thing right |
| 20:25.15 | Noobmonk3y | tis a bloody mare! |
| 20:25.15 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: yep |
| 20:25.27 | BCMM | does it usually take ages to boot right after flashing? |
| 20:25.39 | DocScrutinizer | makis: install less |
| 20:25.54 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: thanks |
| 20:26.06 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: yes |
| 20:26.27 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: ? |
| 20:26.39 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: how do you create qt ui? |
| 20:26.39 | TiagoTiago | has anyone ever heard of thos happening? |
| 20:26.50 | Noobmonk3y | hrw|uds: using the gui :| |
| 20:27.00 | Noobmonk3y | ie qtcreator |
| 20:27.07 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: layout elements are easy |
| 20:27.15 | Noobmonk3y | not wiuth what i'm doing supposedlt |
| 20:27.22 | *** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 20:27.24 | Noobmonk3y | and #qt and #qt-maemo are ever so quiet lol |
| 20:27.39 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: you just add widgets, then select few, put them in layout, select next ones, put in layout and finally add layout for whole window |
| 20:28.02 | Noobmonk3y | ok, still not gonna help me!! done that for 5 days, tried all types of layouts lol , let me explain |
| 20:28.12 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i was doing something else while it booted, and after a couple of minutes realised it hadn't made any noises with a start and thought i was in the dreaded bootloop |
| 20:28.17 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: show screenshot of ui? |
| 20:29.12 | Noobmonk3y | on landscape i want 2 sets of columns (label label, label label) - but portrait i want them to wrap to fit the screen, so 1 set of two colums |
| 20:29.26 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 20:29.27 | Noobmonk3y | ie (label label) on each line |
| 20:29.52 | Noobmonk3y | got it auto rotating fine, but it just seems layouts refuse to either resize, flow or go where i want them |
| 20:29.58 | *** join/#maemo fcrochik (~felipe@cpe-174-097-248-002.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:30.05 | hrw|uds | ok, now I uderstand |
| 20:30.27 | hrw|uds | you want to reflow UI |
| 20:30.29 | DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: this won't ever happen automatically |
| 20:30.29 | Noobmonk3y | surely i cant be the first? - as the lscape is wider, and portrait taller lol |
| 20:30.41 | Noobmonk3y | DocScrutinizer: why didnt you tell me that monday when asking lol! |
| 20:30.45 | Noobmonk3y | :p |
| 20:30.47 | Noobmonk3y | but thank you! |
| 20:30.51 | DocScrutinizer | a 4 col layout remains a 4 col layout |
| 20:30.59 | Noobmonk3y | i'm currently in the process of manually positioning it all |
| 20:31.04 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: NO!! |
| 20:31.09 | Noobmonk3y | hrw|uds: meh |
| 20:31.17 | DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: use two layouts |
| 20:31.21 | Noobmonk3y | another four days to figure out a "reflow Ui"? |
| 20:31.23 | Noobmonk3y | i did |
| 20:31.28 | Noobmonk3y | and even tried repositioning |
| 20:31.36 | Noobmonk3y | they refused to go where i wanted, one just vanished! |
| 20:31.50 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: does it is label1 label2, label3 label4 and has to be label1 label2\nlabel3 label4 in portrait? |
| 20:32.06 | Noobmonk3y | preferably yes! |
| 20:32.18 | Noobmonk3y | (and well described!) |
| 20:32.20 | hrw|uds | how you generate labels? |
| 20:32.33 | Noobmonk3y | created in the gui |
| 20:32.37 | hrw|uds | looks like best would be to have two UI layouts in application |
| 20:32.38 | Noobmonk3y | as i'm playing with stylesheets etc |
| 20:32.46 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago_ (~GvntbGvnt@189-68-27-187.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 20:32.51 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: what app does? what are labels? |
| 20:32.57 | Noobmonk3y | oooo - gonna be a pain, all within a stacked widget with 9 widgets lol |
| 20:33.07 | Noobmonk3y | hrw|uds: re-invention of healthcheck |
| 20:33.13 | Noobmonk3y | 9 pages * |
| 20:33.35 | hrw|uds | healthcheck? was it that app with nightmare ui? |
| 20:33.39 | Noobmonk3y | yup ;) |
| 20:33.47 | Noobmonk3y | so this time, i'm gonna do it right! |
| 20:33.56 | Noobmonk3y | anyway that was my first ever forway into pyqt lol |
| 20:34.01 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: first of all: drop any css from it |
| 20:34.07 | Noobmonk3y | thistime, my first ever time into c++/qt - or whatever it is |
| 20:34.17 | Noobmonk3y | aghhh no! - cos thats what made it shite last time! |
| 20:34.23 | hrw|uds | let it look like normal application not as some design nightmare |
| 20:34.26 | Noobmonk3y | and it now looks sexy in landscape |
| 20:34.30 | Noobmonk3y | may just keep in in lscape |
| 20:34.54 | hrw|uds | Noobmonk3y: we have different definition of 'sexy' look of app |
| 20:34.59 | Noobmonk3y | very true :p |
| 20:35.08 | Noobmonk3y | autorotation is now leaving the app! |
| 20:35.11 | Noobmonk3y | yay - battery saving! |
| 20:35.12 | Noobmonk3y | wooop |
| 20:37.15 | Noobmonk3y | relaxes, looks so much easier now ;) |
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| 20:41.52 | jacktheripper | hey, for me, sometimes haptic feedback + audio work, and sometimes not. I have to reboot the N900 to get any change, and these two are always coupled |
| 20:41.58 | jacktheripper | anybody else having that problem ? |
| 20:42.40 | *** join/#maemo Jaizuke (~Jaizuke@CPEe0cb4ea5ee98-CM001ceacc0ba8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:42.48 | Jaizuke | Hey everyone, is TMO down? |
| 20:43.31 | jacktheripper | it is |
| 20:43.43 | Noobmonk3y | :P |
| 20:44.00 | Jaizuke | Ah I see. |
| 20:44.03 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@62.219.120.20) |
| 20:44.08 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 20:44.15 | Jaizuke | Hey mohammad |
| 20:45.33 | hrw|uds | off |
| 20:45.38 | hrw|uds | have a nice weekend |
| 20:45.51 | MohammadAG | hi |
| 20:46.17 | Noobmonk3y | hey mo |
| 20:46.34 | Jaizuke | umm, I was wondering if you could help me with your combined modified hildon package? |
| 20:52.35 | *** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@189.2.128.130) |
| 20:54.37 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 20:56.34 | sjk | ~pr1.3 |
| 20:56.35 | infobot | [pr1.3] the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update |
| 20:57.00 | _llll_ | a bad day to have left my charger at work, clearlt |
| 20:59.41 | Noobmonk3y | _llll_: lol :P |
| 21:01.16 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 21:02.07 | messerting | Great, PR1.3 installation done. System is up, and seems to work (just as before). |
| 21:02.16 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-211-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 21:03.14 | mgedmin | _llll_, no microUSB cables nearby? |
| 21:05.10 | TiagoTiago | any news on that project of making a new equializer for the N900 to make the speakers not be so lame? |
| 21:05.28 | TiagoTiago | equalizer* |
| 21:05.43 | kerio | MNZ, where art thou |
| 21:05.45 | kerio | :( |
| 21:05.51 | kerio | TiagoTiago: MNZ was working on it |
| 21:06.08 | kerio | using hw filters to do what the nokia speaker protection does, and more |
| 21:06.10 | TiagoTiago | Do you know how far he had got? |
| 21:06.22 | TiagoTiago | that would rock |
| 21:06.25 | kerio | i think he was stuck at writing the ui for the EQ |
| 21:06.47 | TiagoTiago | i thought it was just gonna bypass the software limitations potentially reducing the life of the speakers |
| 21:06.50 | kerio | he'd need to emulate a multiband equalizer with two (or four?) filters |
| 21:06.59 | kerio | huh? no |
| 21:07.00 | kerio | of course not |
| 21:07.15 | kerio | *replacing* the nokia protection was in the works from the beginning ofc |
| 21:07.27 | kerio | even more than having just audio directly from the codec to the speakers |
| 21:07.47 | kerio | although i still want that |
| 21:08.05 | kerio | so pa+mafw doesn't rape my cpu |
| 21:08.15 | kerio | he said there wouldn't be that much of a battery life gain though |
| 21:08.19 | *** join/#maemo kevloral (~kevloral@254.85-85-185.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 21:08.25 | kevloral | Hello all |
| 21:08.41 | TiagoTiago | Do you know if the loudness would at least get close to what the N73 an do? |
| 21:09.05 | joga | heh misread loudness for loneliness |
| 21:09.20 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 21:09.30 | TiagoTiago | can* |
| 21:09.31 | _llll_ | mgedmin: oh, didnt think of that! cheers |
| 21:09.47 | kerio | probably not, duh |
| 21:09.50 | kerio | worse speakers |
| 21:09.59 | kerio | software can only get you so far |
| 21:10.00 | javispedro | kerio: that's the reason Nokia didn't do afaik (net battery life time would be reduced). |
| 21:10.02 | crashanddie | heh |
| 21:10.03 | kerio | (a.k.a. not much) |
| 21:10.11 | javispedro | (re dsp xprot) |
| 21:10.14 | crashanddie | looks like 4chan is ddos'ing riaa.org again |
| 21:10.36 | BCMM | crashanddie: heh |
| 21:10.43 | TiagoTiago | having a mobile that isn't loud at all is kinda emasculating :( |
| 21:10.51 | kerio | lol phone speakers |
| 21:10.54 | crashanddie | shuts down perl scripts... |
| 21:11.01 | BCMM | my favourite bit of stuff like that is when Slashdot posts a story about it just when they're recovering |
| 21:11.05 | kerio | are you seriously using that |
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| 21:23.41 | tybollt | crashanddie: Awww let the b-tards have their fun, mum will soon tell them to go brush their teeth and head straight to bed anyway ;) |
| 21:24.31 | javispedro | ... but they will leave their computers on, ofc. |
| 21:24.52 | javispedro | wasting energy that could be used to... dunno, maybe powering my hair drier |
| 21:25.03 | javispedro | *dryer |
| 21:27.05 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~rs4@sns57-42.york.ac.uk) |
| 21:27.44 | trumee | I ma trying to flash on opensuse 11.3 and getting "Unable to enumerate USB buses". What does that mean? |
| 21:27.51 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-245-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 21:28.00 | trumee | dont tell me i need a windows machined to flash N900. ugghh! |
| 21:28.05 | javispedro | that usbfs is not mounted where flasher expects it, iirc. |
| 21:28.27 | kerio | trumee: are you root? |
| 21:28.36 | trumee | kerio: yes i am |
| 21:28.40 | kerio | root or a user with the necessary capabilities |
| 21:28.47 | trumee | kerio: i am root |
| 21:29.38 | trumee | on the next try i get USB device found found at bus 001, device address 010 |
| 21:29.44 | trumee | Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy |
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| 21:32.04 | trumee | pity i need to find a windows machine. on my gentoo box it was fine, but opensuse crapped out |
| 21:33.01 | tybollt | trumee: Opensuse 11.3 on your n900??? |
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| 21:33.13 | trumee | tybollt: no on my laptop |
| 21:34.12 | jacktheripper | how can I launch the mediaplayer from terminal ? |
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| 21:42.30 | MohammadAG | dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"mediaplayer"? |
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| 21:52.24 | zap | Guys, anybody knows a way to force hildon desktop to re-read icon cache after installing my .deb file? |
| 21:52.33 | zap | (other than killal hildon-desktop, that is) |
| 21:58.39 | sivang | zap: isn't that doen with tracker somehow? |
| 21:58.42 | sivang | hmm, prolly not |
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| 22:05.59 | javispedro | zap: there are some bugs out there whose # i don't remember, but it basically goes like touching /usr/share/icons/hicolor/hildon |
| 22:06.18 | javispedro | remembers an attached patch, wonder if it got into pr1.3... |
| 22:06.43 | zap | p |
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| 22:07.32 | zap | but how hildon-desktop detects that a new icon appeared under hicolor? Sometimes it refreshes icons normally |
| 22:08.08 | javispedro | it monitors some dir's mtime for updates |
| 22:08.41 | lcuk | zap, its also based on the order of when the .desktop files are copied vs the icon files themselves |
| 22:09.05 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-245-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 22:09.09 | zap | yes, I observed that when I touch the .desktop file it re-reads the list of applications |
| 22:09.15 | zap | however, icons aren't refreshed |
| 22:09.17 | *** join/#maemo plq (~plq@88.249.173.198) |
| 22:09.50 | javispedro | ah, here is that bug |
| 22:09.53 | javispedro | bug #6931 |
| 22:09.54 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/6931 After installation of software last icon in list has default icon instead of own one |
| 22:10.28 | javispedro | read last comment, actual dir to touch is /usr/share/icons/hicolor |
| 22:11.12 | zap | now the question is: should I adapt packages to this bug, or wait for bugfixes :( |
| 22:17.01 | alterego | zap: don't hold out for any more bug fixes |
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| 22:19.24 | zap | hmm, so the right sequence is: touch icons/hicolor, then touch .desktop file |
| 22:19.31 | zap | tricky |
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| 22:32.23 | psYchotic | hey everyone, I'm having a problem with modest on PR1.3, it's nagging me about imap.gmail.com's SSL certificate having a bad signature |
| 22:33.03 | psYchotic | and I'm not quite sure what to do. I've never had this problem before. |
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| 22:37.16 | psYchotic | hmm, never mind, it just stopped bothering me (not sure I like it, but it'll have to do for now). Thanks anyway |
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| 22:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: javispedro: you noticed the differences in CPU load while hooked to USB(-charger), from PR1.2 to PR1.3? |
| 22:49.42 | javispedro | no.. |
| 22:50.06 | javispedro | wall charger or plain usb host? |
| 22:51.14 | DocScrutinizer | both |
| 22:51.16 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-29.log.html#t2010-10-29T07:40:24 |
| 22:51.51 | DocScrutinizer | E.G. hook to charger (stop all apps, lock screen), run powertop |
| 22:52.38 | javispedro | bah, powertop is gone from repos again |
| 22:53.06 | javispedro | types packages.maemo.org again. arggggh!!! |
| 22:53.51 | DocScrutinizer | kernel sucks power like mad, while VBUS detected(cause mere handwaving, so educated guess anyway). Will both kill battery cause keeping it floating at maxvolt when "charging" overnight, something that so far only happened when screen BL kept on. And will bite us for hostmode :-S |
| 22:54.20 | javispedro | top says 99.5% idle at least |
| 22:54.29 | DocScrutinizer | call me DocScrutinizer51 - gone for beer |
| 22:54.36 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: duh what? |
| 22:54.44 | DocScrutinizer | aah top |
| 22:55.10 | javispedro | more like 99% on avg |
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| 22:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, but compare powertop of PR1.3 to that: http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ |
| 22:55.54 | javispedro | wait |
| 22:55.59 | javispedro | http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ is from pr1.2 or pr1.3 |
| 22:56.00 | javispedro | ? |
| 22:56.24 | DocScrutinizer | oops, mompl |
| 22:57.49 | DocScrutinizer | DocScrutinizer: same as before, but with title, so nobody gets confused :-) http://pastebin.com/QSHS6u3g |
| 22:58.21 | javispedro | that's PR1.2? 50% of time at 600Mhz??? |
| 22:58.23 | javispedro | not very good either. |
| 22:58.27 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 22:58.38 | DocScrutinizer | but at least it enters C4 |
| 22:59.50 | DocScrutinizer | and AIUI it is 11.4% of time in C0 with 54.4% of that time @ 250MHz, the rest 500MHz |
| 22:59.53 | pupnik_ | having a 'mainframe' (in 1980s terms) in your pocket is pretty nifty |
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| 23:00.19 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: mine's locked at 500Mhz 100% of the time in PR1.3, deepest C state C1 |
| 23:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 23:00.38 | DocScrutinizer | that's exactly what PR1.3 does |
| 23:00.51 | DocScrutinizer | plus it eats power like mad |
| 23:00.55 | ieatlint | must resist urge to order batteries, wire and random pcbs from yemen |
| 23:01.10 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it doesn't seem to get very hot |
| 23:01.25 | *** join/#maemo makis (~user@89-172-245-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 23:01.36 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: 33°C vs usual 25° here |
| 23:02.23 | tripzero | PR1.3 gobbles up your battery! |
| 23:02.24 | javispedro | will wait until end of charge cycle in ~1 hour to unplug it |
| 23:02.30 | DocScrutinizer | well that's not like "OMFG it eats more power than charger can provide" or death after 3h, but it's really nasty for e.g hostmode |
| 23:02.51 | SpeedEvil | Or battery powered chargers. |
| 23:03.02 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 23:03.11 | SpeedEvil | Which is IMO a perfectly reasonable 'normal' use-case. |
| 23:03.21 | javispedro | sighs |
| 23:03.26 | SpeedEvil | I think there is even a nokia external battery |
| 23:03.27 | DocScrutinizer | or battery itself as bq24150 never detects end-of-charging |
| 23:03.43 | DocScrutinizer | and keeps cell floating at 4.2V |
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| 23:04.21 | javispedro | any guesses at the cause? |
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| 23:04.22 | DocScrutinizer | or CPU which seems to be locked at 500 - something that Igor(?) of Nokia said "DONT DO THAT!" |
| 23:04.33 | javispedro | 500 is in the "safe" range |
| 23:04.45 | javispedro | it's 600 that's out of it |
| 23:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: depends on VBUS detected, as it's happening on both charger and host |
| 23:04.59 | javispedro | (so this means it is clearly intentional...) |
| 23:05.26 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: and the culprit? kernel CPU usage seems average, so it looks like some lock indeed |
| 23:05.28 | SpeedEvil | I vaguely remember there are constraints on 500 |
| 23:05.35 | SpeedEvil | maybe that is only industrial parts |
| 23:05.45 | DocScrutinizer | kk, nevertheless I feel really friggin uncomfortable to keep my device hooked up to charger night after night |
| 23:05.58 | javispedro | already didn't do that eitherway |
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| 23:06.14 | SpeedEvil | Does it powersave when off? |
| 23:06.18 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 23:06.21 | SpeedEvil | unplugged |
| 23:06.29 | DocScrutinizer | yes, pretty nicely indeed |
| 23:06.30 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: you've made me uncomfortable doing it too now, bastard |
| 23:06.34 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: ofc, battery life would have plumetted otherwise. |
| 23:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: for hostmode I expect massive impact |
| 23:07.24 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: well, since we still don't have android's wakelocks, I guess the culprit has to live in kernel space |
| 23:08.01 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: it's clearly kernel as I can reproduce it with a PR1.3 kernel on a PR1.1.1 rootfs |
| 23:08.13 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: briefed changes? are they small? |
| 23:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser says he doesn't see anything that looks related |
| 23:09.02 | DocScrutinizer | so it's a real nasty bugger |
| 23:09.12 | javispedro | I still think it has to be intentional |
| 23:09.17 | DocScrutinizer | unexpected side effect of some kind |
| 23:09.23 | javispedro | :P |
| 23:09.38 | DocScrutinizer | how could it? |
| 23:09.45 | DocScrutinizer | why should it? |
| 23:09.56 | DocScrutinizer | what use might this have anyway? |
| 23:10.11 | javispedro | dunno, but 500 exactly.... should ring bells. |
| 23:10.28 | javispedro | hmm.. |
| 23:10.33 | javispedro | speaking of bells.. |
| 23:10.39 | tripzero | original droid was 500MHz |
| 23:10.41 | javispedro | wasn't there some other component that locked cpu in 500Mhz? |
| 23:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I remember somebody explaining CPU is fixed to xxxMHz while on USB host |
| 23:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | for dunno what reasons |
| 23:11.09 | DocScrutinizer | but for VBUS aka charger it's clearly a bug |
| 23:11.16 | javispedro | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9 |
| 23:11.36 | javispedro | NB#161191 - Rover does not differentiate charging downstream port |
| 23:11.37 | javispedro | + from dedicated charger looks a candidate |
| 23:11.55 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 23:12.41 | javispedro | but I agree with PaulFertser, actual code looks innocent... |
| 23:12.56 | javispedro | hm.. |
| 23:13.28 | javispedro | there's a small change... |
| 23:13.38 | javispedro | interrupts are enabled in musb when vbus detected |
| 23:13.42 | javispedro | previously, they weren't. |
| 23:14.09 | javispedro | s/vbus/charger |
| 23:14.21 | DocScrutinizer | well, I did a good job - I brought it to your notice. :-) Now I'm afk again, for booze. My pub has last day, closing up for good |
| 23:15.00 | javispedro | cya, |
| 23:15.02 | javispedro | . |
| 23:15.45 | javispedro | . |
| 23:15.57 | javispedro | (err, sorry -- damn battery-less mouse...) |
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| 23:16.25 | mikeplus64 | Somewhat-offtopic: Is there any n900 successor in the works? |
| 23:18.28 | Buee | Need some help getting Ubuntu on to my N810, the file on the walkthrough is MIA. Any one have the rootfs? |
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| 23:22.09 | ShadowJK | In 1.2 without bme, power consumption would immediately go up when vbus goes high. It would go down to reasonable levels again when I trigger the charger detection (assuming it's a wallcharger connected) |
| 23:22.35 | ShadowJK | in 1.2 with stock maemo, it always did sit at 500MHz when connected to a PC host |
| 23:24.04 | javispedro | so that's it. |
| 23:24.30 | javispedro | this is the issue: previously musb ints were disabled when wall charger found (aka after charger_detect returned 1) |
| 23:24.34 | javispedro | now they're on |
| 23:24.39 | javispedro | for some reason this causes lock to 500Mhz? |
| 23:24.54 | javispedro | :P |
| 23:25.24 | ShadowJK | So, um, does anyone have or know of a "charging downstream port" |
| 23:25.34 | ShadowJK | I'm sure I saw it in the USB charging spec but I don't remember |
| 23:25.34 | javispedro | no fscking idea. |
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| 23:28.28 | javispedro | either way, I don't think is a show-stopper to h-e-n, as it will be just reverted to previous behaviour in kernel |
| 23:28.39 | javispedro | in fact I think I will revert it on my kernel... |
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