IRC log for #maemo on 20101006

`00:02.16`	`septiq`	`any idea ?`
`00:02.32`	`FauxFaux`	`Try flashing from a different host. ;)`
`00:03.48`	`septiq`	`FauxFaux: i'm flashing from OSX, i can try using XP under VMware...`
`00:04.54`	`*** join/#maemo TermanaN900 (~user@123-3-83-114.static.dsl.dodo.com.au)`
`00:05.39`	`TermanaN900`	`good morning`
`00:05.39`	`FauxFaux`	`Don't you have a real computer?`
`00:05.50`	`*** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.31.157.sysads.com)`
`00:06.03`	`septiq`	`actually i'm flashing because BackupMenu restauration bricked my device, then i managed to repair the device on this host by flashing, miserly i retried another BackupMenu restauration and finally after 10 tries i can't re-flash :(`
`00:06.26`	`septiq`	`FauxFaux: i also have another MBP`
`00:07.20`	`*** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.31.157.sysads.com)`
`00:07.43`	`*** join/#maemo sevard (sev@216.164.6.24)`
`00:09.07`	`sevard`	`alright. i'm fed up. figured I should ask in chan. without sip+h323 is there ANY way one can video chat from an n810 to some boyd using a pc?`
`00:09.21`	`sevard`	`i looked in the forums... suggestions are bleek`
`00:10.13`	`sevard`	`my pc died yesterday and i'll take a week to get my psu special ordered. my birthday is thursday and i've yet to miss a video chat with grandma ;/`
`00:11.32`	`*** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-3-120.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`00:11.44`	`*** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-120-3-120.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`00:12.18`	`*** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato)`
`00:13.47`	`*** join/#maemo [DrkGUNMAN-N900] (~DarkGUNMA@host86-141-254-5.range86-141.btcentralplus.com)`
`00:15.04`	`septiq`	`FauxFaux: same issue with another laptop`
`00:16.31`	`septiq`	`i can't flash more than 2752512 bytes`
`00:17.06`	`septiq`	`sevard: is skype an option for you ?`
`00:17.38`	`*** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3D692.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`00:17.40`	`sevard`	`septiq: it is. but the n810's skype client dosn't support video chat`
`00:18.00`	`sevard`	`google video chat doesn't work either`
`00:18.55`	`septiq`	`FauxFaux: it seems the flashing host is not the issue, my n900 doesn't accept more than 2752512 bytes`
`00:20.41`	`*** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@81-237-245-83-no52.tbcn.telia.com)`
`00:21.43`	`septiq`	`where can i get rootfs JFFS2 image`
`00:21.46`	`*** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@c-98-238-227-32.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`00:22.17`	`nox-`	`are you using an usb hub?`
`00:23.04`	`septiq`	`nox-: no just the nokia cable`
`00:23.22`	`septiq`	`nox-: i can try with a 2nd one anyway`
`00:23.34`	`nox-`	`hm`
`00:25.48`	`sevard`	`septiq: any other ideas? not sure why you mentioned skype.`
`00:27.24`	`septiq`	`nox-: same issue at the same time (2752512 bytes)`
`00:27.41`	`nox-`	`hrm`
`00:27.49`	`septiq`	`now i will try to unpack the rootfs from the fiasco`
`00:28.52`	`*** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de)`
`00:29.52`	`*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`
`00:32.25`	`septiq`	`Write failed after 655360 bytes`
`00:32.26`	`septiq`	`usb_bulk_write: Undefined error: 0`
`00:33.10`	`sevard`	`or not.`
`00:34.36`	`septiq`	`sevard: sorry no idea, i even don't know what n810 is`
`00:35.28`	`septiq`	`or simply go to a cybercafÃ© to talk with your family`
`00:37.27`	`sevard`	`the n810 came out before the n900...`
`00:39.47`	`septiq`	`i also got the exact same issue with PR1.1`
`00:41.33`	`*** join/#maemo sevard (sev@unaffiliated/sevard)`
`00:43.48`	`septiq`	`and PR1.0 :(`
`00:53.40`	`*** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3D692.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`00:55.05`	`*** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3D692.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`00:56.08`	`*** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3D692.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`00:58.44`	`*** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)`
`01:03.11`	`septiq`	`and of course Nokia Software Updater win't help`
`01:04.21`	`*** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3D692.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:05.16`	`septiq`	`If no more propositions to recover my bricked n900 i will eventually go to sleep ...`
`01:07.25`	`*** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@14.96.148.213)`
`01:07.50`	`*** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3D692.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:08.20`	`septiq`	`Thanks good night all`
`01:10.05`	`*** part/#maemo ni1s (~ni1s@1-1-4-36a.dre.sth.bostream.se)`
`01:14.41`	`*** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.113.72.83)`
`01:21.03`	`*** join/#maemo tremby (~tremby@2001:630:d0:f111:221:9bff:fe6f:3213)`
`01:21.18`	`tremby`	`where can i find the source code of rtcom-messaging-ui?`
`01:29.03`	`*** join/#maemo jpinx_ (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-3-120.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`01:29.39`	`*** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-120-3-120.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`01:35.29`	`*** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.31.157.sysads.com)`
`01:38.00`	`*** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@78.32.229.233)`
`01:51.57`	`*** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc4-basf8-2-0-cust689.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com)`
`02:03.24`	`*** join/#maemo barisione (~barisione@pasanda.collabora.co.uk)`
`02:07.50`	`*** join/#maemo KaKaRoTo (~kakaroto@pasanda.collabora.co.uk)`
`02:07.58`	`*** join/#maemo KaKaRoTo (~kakaroto@amsn/developer/kakaroto)`
`02:10.04`	`*** join/#maemo abner (~Abner@pasanda.collabora.co.uk)`
`02:10.31`	`*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08B639.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:11.55`	`*** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@78.32.229.233)`
`02:13.24`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik (~puphome@p54B2BD29.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:14.35`	`fredrin`	`yarr`
`02:14.42`	`luke-jr_`	`no`
`02:14.48`	`fredrin`	`yes`
`02:14.52`	`luke-jr_`	`no`
`02:14.56`	`pupnik`	`our societies are becoming north korea`
`02:15.10`	`pupnik`	`we are the front against evil`
`02:15.15`	`sevard`	`our societies are north korea.`
`02:15.23`	`fredrin`	`pupnik, no more fat people?`
`02:15.25`	`pupnik`	`no`
`02:15.29`	`luke-jr_`	`all your base are belong to me`
`02:15.38`	`pupnik`	`open source`
`02:15.39`	`fredrin`	`kekekeke`
`02:15.41`	`pupnik`	`versyus tyranny`
`02:15.54`	`pupnik`	`anybody pro-tyranny will be banned from maemo`
`02:15.56`	`sevard`	`n810 and ekiga video chat. tablet to pc. anyone have any luck?`
`02:16.13`	`pupnik`	`i mean it`
`02:16.15`	`sevard`	`i'm pro t-rex.`
`02:16.17`	`pupnik`	`shitheads`
`02:16.22`	`luke-jr_`	`pupnik: so ban me`
`02:16.33`	`fredrin`	`sevard, i had luck with video chat with both skype and gtalk`
`02:16.35`	`sevard`	`b&`
`02:16.37`	`pupnik`	`luke-jr_: you were pretty good earlier`
`02:16.53`	`sevard`	`fredrin: n810 skype client doesn't support video...`
`02:17.06`	`fredrin`	`ah, n810 i never had`
`02:17.12`	`sevard`	`$`
`02:17.15`	`sevard`	`8`
`02:17.16`	`fredrin`	`only my sweet n900`
`02:17.16`	`sevard`	`1`
`02:17.18`	`sevard`	`0`
`02:17.33`	`*** join/#maemo rokr1 (~rokr1@59.92.46.154)`
`02:17.44`	`rokr1`	`hi guys`
`02:17.52`	`fredrin`	`where in the world are people on #maemo?`
`02:17.54`	`sevard`	`whenever I ask a question in here I explicitly state the platform but nobody reads it :)`
`02:17.59`	`fredrin`	`norway -> oslo`
`02:18.07`	`rokr1`	`i have problem in my N900`
`02:18.16`	`pupnik`	`maemo is the original`
`02:18.23`	`pupnik`	`rokr1: is nobody`
`02:18.26`	`pupnik`	`sevard: is nobody`
`02:18.29`	`fredrin`	`rokr1, wat is problem?`
`02:18.31`	`pupnik`	`fredrin: is nobody`
`02:18.34`	`pupnik`	`luke-jr_: is somebody`
`02:18.37`	`sevard`	`im somebody, jesus.`
`02:18.53`	`pupnik`	`you are?`
`02:18.56`	`sevard`	`yes`
`02:18.58`	`sevard`	`i'm jesus`
`02:19.00`	`pupnik`	`sevard: what did you do`
`02:19.07`	`rokr1`	`when i plug in the power cable the orange led blinks for few minutes and the there is no notification`
`02:19.09`	`sevard`	`performed acts of god`
`02:19.14`	`rokr1`	`but the phone charges`
`02:19.20`	`pupnik`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:19.24`	`pupnik`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:19.31`	`*** join/#maemo th0br0 (quassel@gg-com.de)`
`02:19.31`	`*** join/#maemo th0br0 (quassel@fedora/th0fed0)`
`02:19.32`	`sevard`	`:(`
`02:19.37`	`sevard`	`fg`
`02:19.39`	`fredrin`	`sevard, gif vine`
`02:19.44`	`fredrin`	`wine`
`02:19.54`	`sevard`	`fredrin: jpg beer`
`02:19.56`	`rokr1`	`but usually it works great before the update to PR1.2`
`02:20.24`	`fredrin`	`rokr1, good that it charges though`
`02:20.31`	`fredrin`	`so no broken usb port`
`02:20.42`	`rokr1`	`there is no orange blinking light that worries me`
`02:20.51`	`rokr1`	`is it normal`
`02:21.20`	`fredrin`	`i think mine blinkes and goes green when it's full`
`02:22.14`	`opdf2`	`rokr1: happens all the time or just now?`
`02:22.25`	`rokr1`	`all the times`
`02:22.37`	`rokr1`	`i have installed a lot of apps`
`02:22.50`	`*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08A95E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:23.05`	`rokr1`	`open ssh, ftp server, asterisk etc`
`02:23.07`	`rokr1`	`hehe`
`02:23.13`	`opdf2`	`did you modify led patterns?`
`02:23.21`	`rokr1`	`no`
`02:23.37`	`rokr1`	`just the normal notification light`
`02:23.53`	`rokr1`	`that usually gets lit up white light`
`02:24.44`	`opdf2`	`I'm not sure. When that happens to me I just restart mce and its fine`
`02:24.51`	`opdf2`	`root, then "initctl stop mce; sleep 2; initctl start mce"`
`02:24.58`	`rokr1`	`device on light and instant message and other notification light is not checked`
`02:27.20`	`rokr1`	`lshal show low amp in the battery`
`02:28.04`	`rokr1`	`battery design supports 1258 and i have 1172 when fully charged and i even boosted the battery`
`02:28.08`	`rokr1`	`nothing helps`
`02:28.20`	`rokr1`	`do u think its a battery prob`
`02:28.24`	`*** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@78.32.229.233)`
`02:29.43`	`rokr1`	`because i just replaced the battery`
`02:29.57`	`rokr1`	`old battery bulged a bit lol`
`02:30.08`	`fredrin`	`what good is asterisk for on the n900? +`
`02:30.28`	`fredrin`	`what do people us it for?`
`02:31.03`	`rokr1`	`just a VoIP server in hand is cool`
`02:31.09`	`lcuk`	`doesn't he protect his village from the Romans?`
`02:31.48`	`rokr1`	`opdf2 what does mce stand for`
`02:31.54`	`rokr1`	`just curious`
`02:32.40`	`opdf2`	`rokr1: http://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns#N900`
`02:32.41`	`sevard`	`it stands for ospf`
`02:32.42`	`lcuk`	`rokr1, batteries bulging?`
`02:33.19`	`rokr1`	`the stock battery i just replaced it with the new one from nokia`
`02:33.21`	`lcuk`	`sevard, only video to video call I did was n810 to n810`
`02:33.40`	`sevard`	`lcuk: :/ that is useless to me`
`02:33.47`	`sevard`	`the forums are baren aswell`
`02:33.55`	`lcuk`	`rokr1, environmental conditions?`
`02:34.01`	`sevard`	`nobody seems to have come up with a fesible solution`
`02:34.04`	`fredrin`	`rokr1, but what do you use it for daily?`
`02:34.11`	`lcuk`	`sevard, :) just trying to give a datapoint`
`02:34.24`	`sevard`	`lcuk: what is the codec?`
`02:34.25`	`lcuk`	`and I didn't think useless since I actually read what you asked`
`02:34.31`	`sevard`	`h263?`
`02:34.43`	`rokr1`	`thanks man that really helped fredrin`
`02:34.52`	`lcuk`	`IDK because I am not a video codec engineer`
`02:34.57`	`sevard`	`lcuk: =1 for you :D`
`02:35.01`	`sevard`	`+zq even`
`02:35.05`	`fredrin`	`rokr1, i helped?`
`02:35.06`	`fredrin`	`:D`
`02:35.07`	`sevard`	`gdhwikshnjk keyboard`
`02:35.10`	`lcuk`	`but happily, I know someone who might be, can you ping me and remind tomorrow if you havent found out`
`02:35.29`	`sevard`	`lcuk: ya :D my bat is dying now`
`02:35.56`	`*** join/#maemo woodong50_______ (~moodapo@110.70.202.156)`
`02:37.36`	`*** join/#maemo asedeno_work (~asedeno@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com)`
`02:37.42`	`*** join/#maemo TermanaDesire (~AndChat@120.158.79.160)`
`02:38.09`	`rokr1`	`wats the default value for the patternbatterycharging ??`
`02:38.18`	`rokr1`	`in mce.ini fred`
`02:40.48`	`rokr1`	`the blue light lits up if there are some missed call etc`
`02:41.02`	`rokr1`	`but only the notification light for charging`
`02:43.30`	`fredrin`	`jeje, nait people`
`02:44.26`	`*** join/#maemo swc\|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)`
`02:45.41`	`*** join/#maemo babsher^^ (~babsher^^@c-76-28-239-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`02:48.07`	`*** join/#maemo fredrin_ (~fredrik@cm-84.208.108.15.getinternet.no)`
`02:49.28`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-26-142.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`02:49.28`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe)`
`02:53.04`	`rokr1`	`lcuk i am sorry i did not saw ur questions,`
`02:53.22`	`*** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno)`
`02:53.32`	`rokr1`	`i use the phone a lot to login to my router and monitor it`
`02:53.38`	`rokr1`	`just for fun`
`02:53.45`	`rokr1`	`through ssh`
`02:53.52`	`rokr1`	`over wifi a lot`
`02:54.42`	`rokr1`	`i keep wifi at TX power at 10mw`
`02:58.16`	`*** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de)`
`02:59.31`	`*** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-125-86.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`03:00.17`	`rokr1`	`anyone here who uses mugen battery ...?`
`03:05.36`	`babsher^^`	`what is that`
`03:08.52`	`*** join/#maemo Optx (~do@mnhm-5f752e92.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`03:09.41`	`GAN900`	`rokr1, you know that actually has the potential to waste more power, right?`
`03:10.44`	`GAN900`	`rokr1, since the transmission time is actually a very small percentage of the total power usage of the WiFi chipset.`
`03:11.34`	`GAN900`	`rokr1, so setting it lower doesn't actually save power.`
`03:12.04`	`GAN900`	`If retranmission needs to happen (as it likely will with such low radio power) you'll use more power.`
`03:16.49`	`*** part/#maemo babsher^^ (~babsher^^@c-76-28-239-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`03:19.45`	`*** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`03:24.47`	`*** join/#maemo jpinx_ (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-3-120.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`03:25.10`	`*** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-120-3-120.revip2.asianet.co.th)`
`03:27.50`	`rokr1`	`i understand what u r telling me GAN900`
`03:31.21`	`rokr1`	`i am almost close to the router so no point of retransmission and there is less interference because there are almost no wifi AP around`
`03:32.10`	`rokr1`	`technically there is less frame drops`
`03:32.36`	`rokr1`	`and i use best firmware for my router (Tomato)....`
`03:32.48`	`luke-jr_`	`lol`
`03:32.50`	`rokr1`	`stock firmware's suck`
`03:32.58`	`luke-jr_`	`as if Tomato is better than OpenWrt`
`03:32.59`	`luke-jr_`	`:p`
`03:33.11`	`rokr1`	`yes`
`03:33.16`	`rokr1`	`i can prove it`
`03:34.20`	`luke-jr_`	`nope`
`03:35.29`	`rokr1`	`okie openWRT fan`
`03:35.42`	`rokr1`	`its N900 IRC room`
`03:36.21`	`rokr1`	`so no alternate firmware ICBM over here`
`03:36.36`	`rokr1`	`to fight with`
`03:38.34`	`*** join/#maemo mie_mode (~user@178.56.49.115)`
`03:39.54`	`mie_mode`	`hello all`
`03:40.13`	`rokr1`	`hello to u too`
`03:40.46`	`rokr1`	`\`
`03:52.07`	`mie_mode`	`someone connected to irc with n900? :)`
`03:52.35`	`rokr1`	`y ?`
`03:53.08`	`mie_mode`	`I am :P`
`03:53.24`	`*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`
`03:53.40`	`rokr1`	`great now type u text in the small tingy wingy keyboard`
`03:54.12`	`rokr1`	`great now type ur text in the small tingy wingy keyboard`
`03:54.14`	`mie_mode`	`It's no problem to me :P`
`03:54.29`	`rokr1`	`:P :P :P`
`03:54.32`	`mie_mode`	`I have a more practice :)`
`03:54.39`	`rokr1`	`that was late`
`03:55.17`	`rokr1`	`so wat brings u here ??`
`03:56.19`	`mie_mode`	`nothing, i dont think about maemo channel :P`
`03:56.48`	`mie_mode`	`I looking for some channels and find this one`
`03:57.06`	`CreamyG`	`haha cool, how do you use irc on maemo anyways?`
`03:57.59`	`mie_mode`	`so... there a two options`
`03:58.02`	`CreamyG`	`i mean it's not built in is it?`
`03:58.09`	`mie_mode`	`no`
`03:58.20`	`CreamyG`	`repository?`
`03:58.25`	`*** join/#maemo bef0rd (~Fernando@190.65.159.83)`
`03:58.25`	`*** join/#maemo bef0rd (~Fernando@unaffiliated/beford)`
`03:58.51`	`mie_mode`	`1st option - irssi installed on debian`
`03:59.10`	`mie_mode`	`2nd - xchat installed with app menager`
`03:59.20`	`CreamyG`	`easy debian, or u mean recompiled from debian`
`03:59.29`	`mie_mode`	`easy`
`03:59.32`	`CreamyG`	`i see`
`03:59.40`	`rokr1`	`lift me up ... let me go ooh`
`04:00.00`	`CreamyG`	`is it easy to use either one, or hard? some apps i find hard to use because they are not designed for touch interface`
`04:00.03`	`rokr1`	`every thing easy`
`04:00.10`	`mie_mode`	`the easyest way is xchat`
`04:00.30`	`mie_mode`	`yes, every`
`04:01.13`	`CreamyG`	`cool, yeah if its in the repositories i'll have to try that. will the freenode servers work without IDENT or whatever? i noticed they don't let my desktop connect all the time, it takes many retries`
`04:01.18`	`CreamyG`	`but i think the ident is working...`
`04:01.55`	`mie_mode`	`I prefere skype included to maemo, works great`
`04:02.12`	`mie_mode`	`xchat is stable one and work good on n900`
`04:02.43`	`CreamyG`	`yeah i laughed when i saw android got skype yesterday`
`04:02.49`	`CreamyG`	`although maybe theirs is better`
`04:02.58`	`CreamyG`	`we still had it for the whole time`
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`04:07.54`	`rokr1`	`bye bye`
`04:08.53`	`mie_mode`	`skype in n900 working perfect`
`04:08.54`	`mie_mode`	`bye`
`04:08.55`	`mie_mode`	`a`
`04:09.30`	`mie_mode`	`i use it with cam, its great`
`04:09.45`	`mie_mode`	`ok, time for me, bye everyone...`
`04:09.56`	`mie_mode`	`i will be back soon i think :)`
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`04:13.31`	`slonopotamus`	`wtf is with planet maemo? last week we had chinese post, now spanish (portugese?) one...`
`04:14.24`	`slonopotamus`	`oh, even two of them`
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`04:15.36`	`bef0rd`	`that's portuguese yea`
`04:19.26`	`slonopotamus`	`do you really think any considerable amount of maemo users knows these exotic languages?`
`04:21.17`	`CreamyG`	`i never even heard of planet maemo`
`04:22.06`	`bef0rd`	`probably no, there should be an additional tag required like maemo+english, I can understand it though :P the Ubuntu and gnome planet have the same problems, some people keep asking to bloggers to remove non-english and non-ubuntu related posts, but they claim the planet is about the people working on Ubuntu, not ubuntu directly, or something like that.`
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`04:25.32`	`slonopotamus`	`bef0rd: well, being slightly offtopic is okay, but portugese???`
`04:25.52`	`bef0rd`	`hehe`
`04:27.14`	`slonopotamus`	`and that chinese post was removed. no idea what it was talking about`
`04:28.06`	`CreamyG`	`anyone know the proper name for the cell radio signal strength?`
`04:28.29`	`CreamyG`	`or at least a suggestion that isn't bad`
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`04:31.24`	`slonopotamus`	`next post should either be in klingon or higher elven`
`04:31.33`	`CreamyG`	`like should i call it GSM_radio_dBm or ??`
`04:33.19`	`bef0rd`	`CreamyG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_signal`
`04:34.04`	`CreamyG`	`yeah well i'm asking if the protocol is always gsm on the n900 or i should call it "Cell" or something else if it isn't`
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`04:34.37`	`CreamyG`	`i dont' like writing code that makes me look stupid :P`
`04:34.52`	`bef0rd`	`GSM when working on 2G and UMTS for 3G I belive`
`04:34.55`	`bef0rd`	`believe*`
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`04:36.23`	`CreamyG`	`yeah i was afraid of something like that... okay, cell radio it is!`
`04:43.20`	`luke-jr_`	`bef0rd: GSM/GPRS for 2G, or WCDMA/UMTS for 3G`
`04:46.04`	`CreamyG`	`yeah i needed something generic to refer to both, but not so generic as to be confused with wifi radio...`
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`05:02.14`	`luke-jr_`	`CreamyG: what's the difference? ;)`
`05:02.31`	`luke-jr_`	`big-corporation-service-only?`
`05:06.01`	`luke-jr_`	`closed-source radio`
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`05:12.55`	`*** join/#maemo norayr (~norayr@212.34.238.160)`
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`05:16.44`	`Gizmokid2005`	`hahah, just read a bash post with RST38h and lcuk in it...http://bash.org/?884782`
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`05:44.44`	`slonopotamus`	`summons khertan`
`05:47.24`	`ieatlint`	`summons kittens`
`05:47.40`	`spinningcompass`	`meow`
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`06:01.30`	`CreamyG`	`lol that bash quote is funny, i've seen it before too`
`06:02.04`	`CreamyG`	`those bastards never update hardly anymore`
`06:02.30`	`CreamyG`	`either that or there is nobody funny on irc anymore`
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`06:05.16`	`*** join/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi)`
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`06:07.31`	`mece`	`hmm "It's not just you! http://forum.meego.com looks down from here." and "It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here."`
`06:07.38`	`merlin1991`	`CreamyG, 20774 quotes approved; 6081 quotes pending`
`06:08.01`	`merlin1991`	`yeah both are down apparently`
`06:08.34`	`mece`	`oo, now I get a database error! Intriguing!`
`06:09.18`	`*** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@114.28.213.193.static.cust.telenor.com)`
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`06:13.39`	`CreamyG`	`WONTFIX`
`06:13.46`	`CreamyG`	`just kidding`
`06:13.50`	`*** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@116.84-48-228.nextgentel.com)`
`06:13.50`	`CreamyG`	`WORKSFORME`
`06:15.52`	`*** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@120.21.153.229)`
`06:16.44`	`*** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.164.175.123)`
`06:22.32`	`mece`	`:)`
`06:26.02`	`*** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@host-177.nrln.net)`
`06:26.02`	`*** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo)`
`06:27.18`	`mece`	`I've never really bothered with syncing stuff here and there but I was wondering, do we have SyncML support on N900?`
`06:29.46`	`CreamyG`	`well i'm sure there is but i would be surprised if it works 100%`
`06:30.33`	`CreamyG`	`this phone constantly un-merges contacts on me and every sync app i've used has some missing features`
`06:31.20`	`mece`	`CreamyG, does the unmerging have to do with syncing somehow? Mine has never unmerged anything`
`06:32.20`	`mece`	`I would like to sync calendars somewhere.`
`06:33.06`	`CreamyG`	`probably, i dunno. it seems to split off duplicate facebook or msn ones for no reason`
`06:33.27`	`CreamyG`	`the calendar syncs fine with google and you can sync outlook to google`
`06:34.09`	`CreamyG`	`i think i just used the exchange protocol and i cant enable contacts or tasks or something. i disabled them anyways.`
`06:34.28`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr)`
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`06:44.39`	`CreamyG`	`god this code sucks, it's as if they removed the comments before making it "open source"`
`06:45.47`	`flux`	`..you think corporate code has comments?`
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`06:48.15`	`CreamyG`	`its not nokia it's source for something else...`
`06:48.36`	`CreamyG`	`i made tea like 2 hours ago, crap... 1am...`
`06:48.44`	`CreamyG`	`better drink it anyways`
`06:51.11`	`CreamyG`	`at least it's extra strong from steeping for 2 hrs`
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`07:02.11`	`ieatlint`	`mm, tea`
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`07:14.24`	`FIQ\|n900`	`Noes, missing man page for vi`
`07:14.30`	`*** part/#maemo smooph (~alschroe@sandworm.riedberg.ads.uni-frankfurt.de)`
`07:14.36`	`FIQ\|n900`	`google`
`07:14.39`	`mece`	`What version of qt mobility do we have on N900 right now?`
`07:15.57`	`*** join/#maemo luke-jr (~quassel@2002:62b3:1d4c:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d)`
`07:16.16`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)`
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`07:19.38`	`jpinx-eeepc`	`FIQ\|n900: no man in the n900 :(`
`07:19.56`	`FIQ\|n900`	`sudo apt-get install man`
`07:22.14`	`*** join/#maemo zr0 (br@unaffiliated/zr0)`
`07:27.38`	`*** join/#maemo straind (~stupidper@204.111.189.4)`
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`07:27.48`	`RST38h`	`moos`
`07:27.52`	`*** part/#maemo smooph (~alschroe@141.2.231.191)`
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`07:28.43`	`johnx`	`RST38h, m00f`
`07:28.54`	`*** join/#maemo benh (~benh@67.13.70.115.static.exetel.com.au)`
`07:29.05`	`johnx`	`takes a break from other projects, makes himself a proper X Terminal`
`07:30.13`	`RST38h`	`Not proper unless it has SUN label =)`
`07:30.43`	`johnx`	`sighs about SUN, starts thinking about SGI`
`07:30.51`	`johnx`	`I have an O2 somewhere ...`
`07:31.00`	`RST38h`	`yes but can you stand Irix?`
`07:31.15`	`johnx`	`I think I put Linux on it or netbsd or something`
`07:31.20`	`johnx`	`been 10 years or so`
`07:32.18`	`johnx`	`I remember getting around the root password, logging in and finding ancient stuff`
`07:32.53`	`johnx`	`my first reaction was to figure out how to do a network update after which I discovered they wanted like a couple thousand a year for a support contract or something`
`07:35.51`	`RST38h`	`You update by stealing an ancient tape from somewhere (usually a university)`
`07:36.33`	`johnx`	`I was in high school at the time. I didn't really have connections :)`
`07:36.33`	`RST38h`	`Take a shovel, you may have to dig.`
`07:36.40`	`johnx`	`so it's still sitting around somewhere`
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`07:38.32`	`dakilla`	`hey guys`
`07:38.35`	`dakilla`	`i gotta question`
`07:38.43`	`dakilla`	`i overclocked the n900`
`07:38.50`	`dakilla`	`set the min value to 125 and max to 900`
`07:39.01`	`dakilla`	`and whenever it idles it never hits 125`
`07:39.06`	`dakilla`	`it stays at 250`
`07:39.14`	`dakilla`	`im not sure if i missed something`
`07:39.18`	`xkr47`	`using the ondemand ?`
`07:39.41`	`dakilla`	`im using titans`
`07:39.51`	`dakilla`	`kernel thing`
`07:40.41`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@92.103.229.106)`
`07:42.00`	`CreamyG`	`it resets when you receive a call or something i think`
`07:42.11`	`CreamyG`	`u can disable 250 instead`
`07:42.16`	`*** join/#maemo dvaske (~asolsson@nat/nokia/x-yrtpommkuwkmadjw)`
`07:42.17`	`CreamyG`	`maybe`
`07:42.20`	`CreamyG`	`i don't remember`
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`07:42.46`	`johnx`	`are people actually seeing better battery life with 125 vs 250?`
`07:43.00`	`dakilla`	`ya its suppose to be`
`07:43.04`	`CreamyG`	`no`
`07:43.06`	`CreamyG`	`lol`
`07:44.13`	`johnx`	`someone would have to do a fairly impressive study to convince me :)`
`07:44.27`	`RST38h`	`people are not doing studies any more`
`07:44.44`	`RST38h`	`it is more like "I installed it and it feels much much better, it is great!"`
`07:44.54`	`johnx`	`dakilla, just so you know, when it's actually idle, it just shuts off the clock entirely and sleeps until the next timer expires`
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`07:45.27`	`dakilla`	`so it will never show`
`07:45.47`	`johnx`	`err, that's not what I'm saying at all`
`07:46.00`	`johnx`	`250 or 125 or whatever is the lowest running speed for the CPU`
`07:46.12`	`johnx`	`when it really has nothing to do, it goes to a couple lower power states`
`07:46.21`	`RST38h`	`lazily reading the armchair strategists of tmo discussing how THEY would divide top management posts at Nokia`
`07:46.44`	`johnx`	`RST38h, ooh! is it like fantasy football/baseball/whateverball?`
`07:46.52`	`johnx`	`that's awesome. I would totally play`
`07:47.13`	`RST38h`	`johnx: Yes, but with even less obligation =)`
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`07:47.28`	`johnx`	`we need a bookie :>`
`07:47.37`	`RST38h`	`we need a death pool`
`07:48.54`	`CreamyG`	`yeah mine has 125 and 250 as avoid-frequencies`
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`07:49.11`	`johnx`	`installing debian to a flash drive over USB1 is painful`
`07:49.17`	`dakilla`	`i only hav 125 as avoid`
`07:49.20`	`dakilla`	`how do i get rid of that`
`07:49.37`	`lindi-`	`johnx: debootstrap?`
`07:51.02`	`johnx`	`lindi-, that might have been the better idea. already halfway through, so I'll just leave it overnight`
`07:52.39`	`lcuk`	`morning \o`
`07:53.06`	`johnx`	`allo lcuk`
`07:53.44`	`lcuk`	`hey johnx - yes I pinged you the other night`
`07:53.57`	`lcuk`	`did you cure your stylusism`
`07:54.15`	`johnx`	`nah. looks like I'd need to take the whole thing apart`
`07:54.21`	`johnx`	`not really excited about that thought`
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`07:54.36`	`lcuk`	`cos my device is in similar situation`
`07:54.44`	`johnx`	`bummer`
`07:54.48`	`johnx`	`must be spreading`
`07:54.52`	`lcuk`	`yup, its got some shard`
`07:55.47`	`crashanddie`	`hey, look at that, xchat is getting smart`
`07:55.53`	`crashanddie`	`it gave johnx a pink nickname :)`
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`07:56.08`	`johnx`	`har har har`
`07:56.16`	`lcuk`	`crashanddie, thats because you have "bummer" as a keyword`
`07:56.41`	`crashanddie`	`I misread that as "keyboard". My hands felt dirty.`
`07:56.57`	`lcuk`	`heh`
`07:57.24`	`johnx`	`is obviously missing the unamericun slang ...`
`07:57.47`	`crashanddie`	`johnx, what's a bum?`
`07:58.11`	`FIQ\|n900`	`crashanddie: you know the fact that you is pink too? :D`
`07:58.15`	`FIQ\|n900`	`same as lcuk`
`07:58.34`	`crashanddie`	`oh well, settled then. X-chat is going bezerk all over the place. We must file a bug.`
`07:58.53`	`johnx`	`crashanddie, depends on the context`
`07:59.27`	`crashanddie`	`in this case, it meant ass, and bummer, being someone who enjoys sodomy`
`07:59.40`	`crashanddie`	`(more giving than receiving, AFAIK)`
`08:00.13`	`crashanddie`	`man, imagine than almost a year ago I was being anal (no pun intended) about keeping this channel family friendly...`
`08:00.13`	`johnx`	`crashanddie, I was using it in the california surfer slang sense of 'that's unfortunate'`
`08:00.35`	`johnx`	`but(t) whatever floats your boat`
`08:02.22`	`RST38h`	`crashanddie: rejoice, you are still being anal`
`08:02.29`	`crashanddie`	`w00t`
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`08:02.42`	`RST38h`	`crashanddie: just stopped pretending you were doing it for a greater good =)`
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`08:03.01`	`crashanddie`	`well, I still do things for the channel...`
`08:03.10`	`crashanddie`	`And I stopped frantically kicking.`
`08:03.45`	`RST38h`	`Sign of age, indeed`
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`08:25.17`	`mece`	`Hello, does Qt4.7 include QtMobility1.1 with maps and navigation api?`
`08:25.32`	`mece`	`oops, this is not #qt`
`08:25.42`	`mece`	`well. perhaps someone here would know the answer anyway`
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`08:55.23`	`crashanddie`	`I can't believe that Windows 7 still has mouse-freezes when using the HD...`
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`08:56.16`	`RST38h`	`Rather, "has them again"`
`08:56.29`	`crashanddie`	`indeed, XP hardly had any...`
`08:56.55`	`lcuk`	`crashanddie, sounds like something else is up`
`08:56.58`	`RST38h`	`waits as IE freezes his system`
`08:57.06`	`*** join/#maemo jd (~jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)`
`08:57.07`	`lcuk`	`lukes win 7 device is happily coping`
`08:57.29`	`crashanddie`	`lcuk, also, the Intel driver for my ethernet card makes my system BSOD...`
`08:57.55`	`lcuk`	`ramshackle system or purchased specifically with win7 preinstalled?`
`08:58.05`	`crashanddie`	`Dell professional`
`08:58.17`	`lcuk`	`curious`
`08:58.20`	`crashanddie`	`indeed`
`08:58.33`	`lcuk`	`maybe its time to close down your pron windows :P`
`08:58.58`	`crashanddie`	`nha, has nothing to do with it... If the network card has a boost a bit too big (for example, I launch an SCP copy), bam, BSOD`
`08:59.13`	`crashanddie`	`Even sometimes when just loading random files off the web`
`08:59.21`	`crashanddie`	`(like jpeg or whatnot)`
`08:59.40`	`crashanddie`	`And now it refuses to connect to a bloody network printer that my mac handles no problem...`
`08:59.47`	`lcuk`	`"bam"`
`09:00.12`	`lcuk`	`when I was setting up his computer, all he could say was "bamaym facebook" in som silly accent`
`09:00.23`	`lcuk`	`he got a little excited lol`
`09:00.59`	`crashanddie`	`"his"? "he"?`
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`09:03.39`	`lcuk`	`crashanddie, luke, new computer`
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`09:04.12`	`lcuk`	`20" multitouch all in one, runs win7, has freeview tv with tivo type recording`
`09:04.31`	`lcuk`	`and parental controls :D`
`09:04.38`	`luke-jr_`	`WTF WAS THAT NOKIAââ`
`09:04.51`	`luke-jr_`	`is pissed a bit.`
`09:04.55`	`lcuk`	`pardon`
`09:05.03`	`luke-jr_`	`is there a reliable alarm app for Maemo 5?`
`09:05.25`	`luke-jr_`	`rather than one that just waits until I wake it up before alarming`
`09:07.01`	`crashanddie`	`luke-jr_, never had problems with the alarm`
`09:07.03`	`luke-jr_`	`lcuk: sorry, but when Nokia's retardery makes me 2 hours late for taking an antibiotic and feeding my newborn who's having trouble gaining weight, I'm going to be very pissedâ¦`
`09:07.40`	`crashanddie`	`no, you're fucking retarded if you blame Nokia for your abysmal parental skills`
`09:07.41`	`kerio`	`your newborn doesn't cry (waking you up) if he's hungry?`
`09:08.14`	`kerio`	`>implying parental skills means having a perfect internal alarm clock`
`09:08.27`	`luke-jr_`	`kerio: not always`
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`09:09.17`	`luke-jr_`	`crashanddie: you obviously have no clue what parenting skills entail`
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`09:09.34`	`luke-jr_`	`good luck waking up every 2-3 hours without an alarm`
`09:09.51`	`crashanddie`	`says the guy who relies on a phone (without testing it first) to feed his kid.`
`09:10.14`	`luke-jr_`	`N900 isn't supposed to be a phone. furthermore, a phone probably would have worked`
`09:10.23`	`RST38h`	`luke-jr: A simple digital clock costs around $5 at your local analogy of Walmart`
`09:10.25`	`crashanddie`	`heck, I've got the n900, blackberry and laptop with different alarms going off just for work`
`09:10.26`	`luke-jr_`	`finally, I've been using it fine for nearly a week at least`
`09:10.34`	`RST38h`	`And yes, it has an alarm that will work on time`
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`09:14.51`	`lcuk`	`luke-jr_, serious now, if there is a reproducable bug which others seem to not have then record it and show us`
`09:15.10`	`lcuk`	`perhaps its something else on your device because many people use and rely on alarm clock on n900 (myself included)`
`09:15.37`	`crashanddie`	`"Moan moan moan, you really think I have time for reporting bugs while my newborn is hungry??? Moan moan moan" "Nope, but you sure have the time to rant about it on IRC"`
`09:16.20`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: People still report Maemo5 bugs?`
`09:16.22`	`johnx`	`lcuk, it fails for me every couple months`
`09:16.45`	`johnx`	`usually seems related to general system 'weirdness' that coincides with long uptimes`
`09:16.57`	`johnx`	`can't reproduce it reliably`
`09:17.34`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, read what I said more carefully`
`09:17.40`	`lcuk`	`hrm`
`09:17.50`	`lcuk`	`strangest alarm issue I have is with one device:`
`09:17.51`	`lcuk`	`http://liqbase.net/20100804_004.mp4`
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`09:30.33`	`crashanddie`	`"In the Philippines, a land of passionate singers, taking on the national anthem is about to get a little more daunting -- get it wrong and you could land in jail for a couple of years and be fined more than $2,000."`
`09:32.46`	`mece`	`crashanddie, ouch!`
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`10:11.17`	`mece`	`pretty sweet with 2.6.35 on meego. At least the kernel is up to date :)`
`10:12.07`	`Stskeeps`	`and actively upstreaming stuff`
`10:12.59`	`*** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@bzq-218-125-200.red.bezeqint.net)`
`10:13.18`	`mece`	`I guess it's not possible to launch meego from mmc without a pc atm?`
`10:14.39`	`Stskeeps`	`not atm`
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`11:10.40`	`Guest9240`	`tttt`
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`11:11.59`	`Guest9240`	`yuiuyiuy`
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`11:17.41`	`pupnik`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064YTtSxVSo [ Our Wise Overlords Are Just Here to Serve Us \| Thomas E. Woods. Jr. ]`
`11:17.57`	`n900-space`	`hi`
`11:18.12`	`n900-space`	`does anyone know how can i paste anything on the madde console ?`
`11:18.23`	`n900-space`	`anyone ?`
`11:20.53`	`*** join/#maemo _berto_ (~berto@60.pool85-56-203.dynamic.orange.es)`
`11:24.14`	`n900-space`	`does anyone know how can i paste anything on the madde console ?`
`11:24.51`	`pupnik`	`yes`
`11:24.57`	`pupnik`	`somebody knows`
`11:25.02`	`n900-space`	`plz tell :)`
`11:25.15`	`n900-space`	`where is that somebody`
`11:25.19`	`n900-space`	`calls out somebody !!`
`11:25.30`	`air`	`somebody died a while back`
`11:25.35`	`timeless_mbp`	`n900-space: asking repeatedly w/in a short interval will not make you friends`
`11:26.05`	`n900-space`	`i'm looking for answers not friends :)`
`11:26.16`	`n900-space`	`people dont become my friend anyway ..`
`11:26.18`	`air`	`heh`
`11:26.25`	`n900-space`	`but i'm not bad to anyone .. so its ok ..`
`11:26.52`	`air`	`what is madde?`
`11:27.09`	`pupnik`	`middle mouse button n900-space`
`11:27.14`	`pupnik`	`try that`
`11:27.22`	`timeless_mbp`	`n900-space: http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/luke_flips_out/`
`11:27.28`	`timeless_mbp`	`patience luke`
`11:28.26`	`n900-space`	`air http://pastebin.com/DaEZ8i08`
`11:28.29`	`n900-space`	`:)`
`11:29.27`	`n900-space`	`you gave the idea pupnik`
`11:29.38`	`n900-space`	`for my laptop, shift+left click is working`
`11:29.42`	`n900-space`	`thanks :)`
`11:29.54`	`pupnik`	`cool! :)`
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`11:38.30`	`steinex`	`just a dumb question: can't i set a status preset including a message?`
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`11:39.41`	`mece`	`fuckin centos! Gaah!`
`11:41.51`	`pupnik`	`mece what's a reason to use centos?`
`11:43.01`	`RST38h`	`he likes pain?`
`11:43.26`	`*** join/#maemo raster (~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster)`
`11:45.16`	`mece`	`pupnik, well I got this server for a project and it was required to use centos.`
`11:45.41`	`mece`	`pupnik, it's fine, but it uses python2.4 system wide, and you can't yum yourself python2.5`
`11:45.58`	`mece`	`so I have to install from source with altinstall. Which is annoying.`
`11:46.25`	`ieatlint`	`fuck taxes`
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`12:22.29`	`xkr47`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon`
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`12:24.15`	`xDaReaperx`	`hello`
`12:24.26`	`xDaReaperx`	`can someone look into my issue : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63167`
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`12:25.46`	`crashanddie`	`"Everything that the staff has suggested" LOL`
`12:25.57`	`crashanddie`	`Hey guys, people in #maemo are "staff" :) W00t`
`12:26.14`	`crashanddie`	`GAN900, I want an update to my IRC cloak. i want /maemo/staff/`
`12:27.15`	`ieatlint`	`heh`
`12:28.21`	`*** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.245.255)`
`12:31.00`	`ieatlint`	`xDaReaperx: so if manually setting your ip works, then it's not an authentication issue..`
`12:31.19`	`ieatlint`	`i would suggest connecting to one of the networks and running udhcp on the command line and seeing what it says`
`12:31.33`	`GAN900`	`crashanddie, everybody except you.`
`12:31.35`	`*** part/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi)`
`12:31.36`	`ieatlint`	`probably do it with a manual ip setting so that maemo doesn't try and run dhcp for you`
`12:31.59`	`crashanddie`	`GAN900, nooooooooooooo :(`
`12:32.04`	`ieatlint`	`should give you a little more info about the issue`
`12:36.56`	`lcuk`	`ieatlint, you say running "udhcp" what should it show`
`12:37.34`	`lcuk`	`cos I get udhcp not found`
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`12:45.13`	`luke-jr_`	`lcuk: record what? with what?`
`12:45.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`IroN900:~# id`
`12:45.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`uid=0(root) gid=0(root)`
`12:45.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`IroN900:~# udhcpc --help`
`12:45.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	udhcpc: unrecognized option `--help'
`12:46.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: c for 'client'`
`12:46.40`	`mgedmin`	`ConnectNow kinda rules`
`12:46.48`	`mgedmin`	`the only thing I'm missing is a "connect to any" button`
`12:47.00`	`lcuk`	`mgedmin, reconnect to specified ap?`
`12:47.06`	`lcuk`	`the widget you mentioned?`
`12:47.13`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@LMontsouris-156-24-27-80.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`12:47.13`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)`
`12:47.14`	`mgedmin`	`yes`
`12:47.24`	`mgedmin`	`now I have to have a separate widget for every network name`
`12:47.31`	`luke-jr_`	`wonders if the alarm failure depends on Offline Mode`
`12:48.46`	`lcuk`	`mgedmin, :) sweet`
`12:51.01`	`ieatlint`	`lcuk: err, udhcpc`
`12:51.12`	`*** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@a88-112-18-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`12:51.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`c for 'c'lient`
`12:52.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`>tab> cmdname completion is really helping ;-)`
`12:52.52`	`lcuk`	`ieatlint, :) indeed DocScrutinizer showed`
`12:53.03`	`lcuk`	`it doesnt matter anyway, the guy left`
`12:53.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`as is having decent manpages, just sometimes`
`12:53.08`	`*** join/#maemo krau (~krau@186.212.114.106)`
`12:54.38`	`lcuk`	`DocScrutinizer, it wasnt the manpage i was just curious what output is expected`
`12:54.41`	`lcuk`	`Nokia-N900:~# udhcpc`
`12:54.42`	`lcuk`	`udhcpc (v0.9.9-pre) started`
`12:54.42`	`lcuk`	`SIOCGIFINDEX failed!: No such device`
`12:54.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though 'apropos dhcp' not really helped to find udhcpc, on N900 :-/`
`12:55.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~lart pre-install docpurge`
`12:55.34`	`infobot`	`slaps pre-install docpurge upside the head with a wet fish`
`12:56.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`WHERE ARE THE -doc PKGS?? Â³Â²Â¶ÅÅÅâ¬@@!!1?#!!**###`
`12:57.17`	`lcuk`	`why shout`
`12:57.26`	`lcuk`	`cant you just run it yourself and lets see the comparison :P`
`12:57.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`because that's PISSING me`
`12:57.34`	`lcuk`	`i am curious because I have manual ips`
`12:58.14`	`mgedmin`	`it would be nice if maemo/meego shipped dman, which downloads man pages from the internet and displays them in all your 80x24 tty glory`
`12:58.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: a proper repo setup would split every package into a basic install, a -doc, and a -debug`
`12:58.47`	`*** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@nor75-32-78-237-172-37.fbx.proxad.net)`
`12:58.54`	`mgedmin`	`is speaking about http://manpages.ubuntu.com/dman, which is hard to google`
`12:58.55`	`kerio`	`huh? you mean a *-dev`
`12:59.04`	`mgedmin`	`or -dbgsym?`
`12:59.11`	`lcuk`	`i just type "man xyz" into google normally :S`
`12:59.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`meh, *-dev as well, yes`
`12:59.23`	`lcuk`	`but thats not going to tell me what the expected output from n900 is`
`12:59.50`	`lcuk`	`i gave one snapshot from manual ip input, can someone do it for dynamic :P`
`12:59.59`	`*** join/#maemo mhlavink_afk (~quassel@nat/redhat/x-uotwqcjjsyycxbph)`
`13:01.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: I'm not inclined to try and access google to get a manpage about udhcpc (go figure!)`
`13:02.29`	`lcuk`	`i am not asking you to`
`13:02.39`	`lcuk`	`just run the damn command and paste what it says`
`13:02.44`	`lcuk`	`:P`
`13:02.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sorry, not now`
`13:04.27`	`*** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs33.swisscom-mobile.ch)`
`13:04.39`	`mgedmin`	`lcuk, "SIOCGIFINDEX failed!: No such device" when run as root`
`13:04.48`	`mgedmin`	`"socket failed!: Operation not permitted" when run as user`
`13:05.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`btw I'm not suggesting you asked me to go google man pages, I asked you to try and do that when your udhcpc is not working - get it?`
`13:05.40`	`lcuk`	`hmm mgedmin`
`13:05.41`	`*** join/#maemo K0JIbKA (~nikobit@188.124.233.120)`
`13:06.02`	`mgedmin`	`'sudo udhcpc wlan0' -> SIOCGIFINDEX failed, too`
`13:06.13`	`*** part/#maemo K0JIbKA (~nikobit@188.124.233.120)`
`13:06.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`google - without dhcp - without working internet connection... hope it's clear now where I'm coming from`
`13:06.54`	`mgedmin`	`'sudo udhcpc -i wlan0' -> doing stuff`
`13:08.12`	`MohammadAG51`	`DocScrutinizer, that's what windows does when the wlan driver isn't working, "Go online to find a solution?"`
`13:08.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: there's a reason for some special man pages even being printed in the apendix of decent unix admin books`
`13:08.26`	`ieatlint`	`lcuk: ah, sorry, distracted :P`
`13:09.51`	`lcuk`	`DocScrutinizer, indeed but in this case its not that bad`
`13:10.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: if you're on a recovery shell on a borked system with a fs that needs fsck run to mount, you'll be happy about printed version of man fsck. Same holds true for ~50 manpages related to connectivity, which you want to access locally without internet connection`
`13:11.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`one of them being man udhcpc`
`13:13.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`maemo (and OE based) repos are brainfsckd to not even offer optional doc packages for any of the apps/tools`
`13:14.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I really hope meego laptop UX users won't let meego devels get away with same nonsense for meego`
`13:16.16`	`lcuk`	`mgedmin, if I run that command on a network with dhcp will it show things`
`13:16.21`	`lcuk`	`because on mine it just sits idle`
`13:17.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`basically it should be mandatory for every pkg to have a "IF pkg-installed(mandb) THEN install-pkg(${ME}-doc)" in postinstall script`
`13:18.45`	`pupnik`	`:)`
`13:18.55`	`mgedmin`	`lcuk, yes, it did show a lot of very interesting things, but I summarized that as "doing stuff" because I'm lazy`
`13:19.16`	`lcuk`	`DocScrutinizer, :) simpler would be to make the main package simply depend upon the related -doc`
`13:19.33`	`lcuk`	`rather than an explicit postinst postrm hack`
`13:19.37`	`mgedmin`	`distros like Debian would not look kindly at a proposition to invent 20,000 new tiny packages containing one or two man pages each`
`13:19.48`	`lcuk`	`not at all`
`13:19.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`err, uhuh. So how'd you handle the case a system doesn't even have the storage for the manpages then?`
`13:20.04`	`lcuk`	`didnt somebody hack man`
`13:20.07`	`lcuk`	`to be back available`
`13:20.34`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)`
`13:20.47`	`*** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk)`
`13:21.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`mgedmin: of course the better way would be to include the manpages to the main pkg and then do docpurge or a similar action during INSTALL time, depending on what's found on the target system`
`13:23.11`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman)`
`13:23.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`but anticipating objections from the "we don't need that" fraction about download data volume during install, I wasn't going to suggest that as the only viable way`
`13:23.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`for sure there are several ways to kill a cat`
`13:23.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`not providing ANY manpages isn't one of them`
`13:27.07`	`*** join/#maemo rhodric (~rhodric@lawn-143-215-120-201.lawn.gatech.edu)`
`13:27.13`	`*** part/#maemo mgedmin (~mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin)`
`13:27.14`	`*** join/#maemo sge (~username@62.240.71.4)`
`13:27.17`	`*** join/#maemo mgedmin (~mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin)`
`13:27.22`	`mgedmin`	`curse xchat's ctrl-w handling`
`13:27.25`	`mgedmin`	`infobot, ^`
`13:27.25`	`infobot`	`i heard ^ is the XK-Operator. Don't try to understand it, or the XOR operator, or beginning of line in regex, or the 'search files in this dir for the following regexp' operator in zsh`
`13:27.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: what you're talking bout? mandb-n900 ?`
`13:27.32`	`*** join/#maemo FireFly\|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly)`
`13:27.42`	`kerio`	`xk?`
`13:28.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ctrl-w?`
`13:29.45`	`mgedmin`	`expected behaviour: deletes word to the left of the cursor. actual behaviour: leaves the channel`
`13:29.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~curse mgedmin for not using xchat's keymapping config properly`
`13:29.53`	`infobot`	`May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, mgedmin for not using xchat's keymapping config properly !`
`13:29.56`	`pupnik`	`ctrl-u clears the input if you mistype a password`
`13:29.59`	`crashanddie`	`calls IT to install yet another UML app`
`13:32.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`mgedmin: that's not a shell, that's xchat with a standard textinput field. Use standard lineedit features for it, like e.g shift-ctrl-left to highlight (multiple) word(s), then delete (BS) or copy (ctl-C) or cut (ctl-X) the highlighted text`
`13:32.28`	`mgedmin`	`thanks DocScrutinizer for his infinite wisdom`
`13:33.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`takes mgedmin for hos infintely kind sarcasm, takes it and dumps it to the junk`
`13:33.34`	`mgedmin`	`is hurt that DocScrutinizer assumed sarcasm`
`13:34.13`	`*** join/#maemo _berto_ (~berto@60.pool85-56-203.dynamic.orange.es)`
`13:34.29`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@2620:0:ce0:1:222:faff:feff:174c)`
`13:34.51`	`ieatlint`	`such hatred and anger in here`
`13:35.08`	`crashanddie`	`ieatlint, indeed, maybe you should leave, you loving teddybear.`
`13:35.38`	`crashanddie`	`Somehow, using "loving teddybear" seems a billion times more wrong than "you bastard".`
`13:35.40`	`ieatlint`	`being called a bear means something very specific here, and i'm afraid i don't fit the description`
`13:35.58`	`crashanddie`	`ieatlint, IRC has no concept of "here" :P`
`13:36.09`	`ieatlint`	`hehe, true`
`13:36.17`	`ieatlint`	`but where i a physically am`
`13:36.31`	`ieatlint`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_(gay_culture) for more info :P`
`13:36.32`	`crashanddie`	`unless by "here" you mean IRC, and are afraid that RevdKathy is going to kidnap you`
`13:36.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`c'mon, whining about a Qt/GTK text input field not supporting a shell hotkey - that's usually provoking much harsher reactions. Wasn't my answer kind, polite, and helpful?`
`13:36.35`	`GAN900`	`crashanddie, SF. :P`
`13:36.37`	`RST38h`	`yawns. Ok, so, who is practicing sarcasm here?`
`13:36.51`	`crashanddie`	`GAN900, oh, right. Sorry ieatlint.`
`13:39.41`	`ieatlint`	`crashanddie: if you're ever in sf, i'll buy you a beer at an awesome trucker-themed bear bar`
`13:39.52`	`ieatlint`	`i'm told they have decent burgers too`
`13:40.42`	`*** part/#maemo rhodric (~rhodric@lawn-143-215-120-201.lawn.gatech.edu)`
`13:42.48`	`crashanddie`	`ieatlint, I spent quite a bit of time south of SF`
`13:42.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`RST38h: why? infringing your monopoly? :-P`
`13:43.02`	`crashanddie`	`ieatlint, closer to mountain view/san jose`
`13:43.19`	`*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-89-194.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`13:43.26`	`ieatlint`	`ah, the land of suburbia and strip malls`
`13:43.34`	`crashanddie`	`indeed`
`13:44.52`	`*** join/#maemo etrunko (~edulima@201.82.27.51)`
`13:45.29`	`lardman`	`GAN900: so, you going to Ireland? My meeting has been moved so I should be able to make it`
`13:45.42`	`ieatlint`	`hopefully you were exposed to the good local beer while out here then`
`13:45.50`	`*** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com)`
`13:45.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`points mgedmin to ~/.xchat2/keybindings.conf`
`13:46.01`	`*** join/#maemo ichinix (~ichinix@g140194.upc-g.chello.nl)`
`13:46.11`	`ichinix`	`Hello all`
`13:46.21`	`mgedmin`	`DocScrutinizer, does xchat-gnome also use those?`
`13:46.40`	`mgedmin`	`there's this Gtk+ feature where I can change menu shortcuts if I enable an option in gconf`
`13:46.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`dunno, no gnome here, but I'd bet on 'yes'`
`13:46.48`	`mgedmin`	`I've done that and remapped "Close window" to Alt+Ctrl+W`
`13:47.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though, given the g* word, I refrain from any betting`
`13:47.18`	`mgedmin`	`combined with another hidden conf option to change my key theme to 'emacs', I usually get ctrl-w = delete word in all gtk+ input boxes`
`13:47.28`	`mgedmin`	`and this used to work in xchat`
`13:47.44`	`mgedmin`	`but I think I decided to wean myself of the habit and didn't change my keybindings theme in this reinstall`
`13:47.59`	`ieatlint`	`ctrl+w is not really an emacs specific command :P`
`13:48.29`	`ichinix`	`I have a lil issue with my Nokia n900, could anyone please help me for a sec ?`
`13:48.29`	`ieatlint`	`it works with any app that uses readline, along with many other programs`
`13:48.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~ask`
`13:48.44`	`infobot`	`Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.`
`13:48.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`ichinix: ?`
`13:49.06`	`GAN900`	`lardman, still planning on it, still haven't heard about sponsorship.`
`13:49.09`	`*** join/#maemo carloscesa (~carlos@189.2.193.178)`
`13:49.22`	`ichinix`	`SpeedEvil, my Nokia n900 keeps on booting and shutting down, wont even come to the bootsplash`
`13:49.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`~flatbat`
`13:49.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`~flatbattery`
`13:49.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`hmm`
`13:49.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~flatbatrecover`
`13:49.51`	`infobot`	`Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover`
`13:49.54`	`ichinix`	`my guess is i bricked it but i hoped someone could help me to revive it :P`
`13:49.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`yeah - that`
`13:50.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`Did you do anything wirrd to it?`
`13:50.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`then`
`13:50.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`wierd`
`13:50.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~flah`
`13:50.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~flash`
`13:50.21`	`infobot`	`methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware`
`13:50.33`	`ichinix`	`tried to update and remove packages`
`13:50.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`power kernel I suppose`
`13:50.49`	`ichinix`	`:)`
`13:50.51`	`ichinix`	`yup`
`13:50.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`reflash`
`13:51.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`before your battery is completely flat`
`13:51.10`	`ichinix`	`i tried but i get the msg that the device is buzy`
`13:51.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's a server PC issue, not N900`
`13:51.43`	`ichinix`	`Unable to enumerate USB devices!`
`13:51.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`windows?`
`13:51.59`	`ichinix`	`even on windows i it keeps on beeping`
`13:52.02`	`ichinix`	`i have dual boot`
`13:52.12`	`ichinix`	`with opensuse 11.3 and windows 7`
`13:52.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`try linux system, make sure you got no hub or anything in between flashing PC and N900`
`13:53.01`	`ichinix`	`i am on my linux system`
`13:53.04`	`*** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@193.147.165.149)`
`13:53.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and make sure your battery is charged. You'll run into a bootstrap problem with borked non charging system plus flat battery`
`13:53.37`	`ichinix`	`ill charge the battery in a sec and try again`
`13:53.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bootlooping doe DISCHARGE battery!!`
`13:54.04`	`ichinix`	`when i try to flash the phone and get to the "Suitable USB device not found, waiting." msg i plug in the phone which is tunred off at that time`
`13:54.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it's a real deadlock`
`13:54.13`	`ichinix`	`while holding down the u button and all`
`13:54.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`correct`
`13:54.37`	`ichinix`	`as soon as i plug it in i get the msg "Unable to enumerate USB devices!"`
`13:54.38`	*** join/#maemo vcgomes` (~vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com)
`13:55.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`umm, you're running flasher as root?`
`13:55.06`	`ichinix`	`yup`
`13:55.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, weird`
`13:55.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you are holding 'u' on N900 (sorry, have to ask that)`
`13:55.37`	`ichinix`	`yup`
`13:55.51`	`ichinix`	`dont be sorry :) u only try to help :P i need it ;P ;p;`
`13:55.53`	`ichinix`	`lol`
`13:56.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`remove battery from N900, plug to USB, insert batery while holding 'u'`
`13:56.40`	`ichinix`	`and try again i presume ?`
`13:57.14`	`*** join/#maemo raster (~raster@221.147.71.45)`
`13:57.14`	`*** join/#maemo raster (~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster)`
`13:57.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`start flasher, wait for "Suitable USB device not found, waiting.", plug in N900 without battery inserted, insert battery while u`
`13:57.31`	`*** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@186.212.114.106)`
`13:57.45`	`ichinix`	`same result im afraid`
`13:58.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`damn`
`13:58.02`	`ichinix`	`could it be that im using the wrong image file ?`
`13:58.08`	`ichinix`	`that i make a mistake on that end`
`13:58.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`nope`
`13:58.18`	`ichinix`	`hmm`
`13:58.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`not afaik`
`13:58.21`	`pupnik`	`what does holding 'u' do again?`
`13:58.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it forces NOLO into flashing mode`
`13:58.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`thus it should stop any enum on USB`
`13:59.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ichinix: use another linux box`
`13:59.28`	`ichinix`	`would a live cd be good enough ?`
`13:59.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`something seems to interfere with USB (maybe automounter or whatever)`
`13:59.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes, live CD is fine`
`13:59.56`	`ichinix`	`kk bbl :) have loads of those arround :P`
`14:00.46`	`*** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~quassel@83.229.6.19)`
`14:01.21`	`*** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-bplngupjudllpdrt)`
`14:01.51`	`*** join/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B288540.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:02.44`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)`
`14:04.48`	`pupnik`	`if you like .debs try sidux / aptosid - nice lightweight livecd also`
`14:07.15`	`*** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa)`
`14:08.35`	`GAN900`	`DocScrutinizer, only if USB is plugged in, though, right?`
`14:09.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`GAN900: only what?`
`14:09.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`(btw I'm happy to hand over to somebody else, as I'm neither the certified expert for flashing, nor completely up and running today)`
`14:10.20`	`Gh0sty`	`you're down and walking today? :p`
`14:10.54`	`*** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.114.106)`
`14:11.07`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net)`
`14:11.15`	`*** join/#maemo baraujo_ (~Bruno@189.2.128.130)`
`14:11.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`GAN900: NOLO forcing? Nah, it needs no host for sure, dunno about 5V but I managed to keep NOLO in flashing mode on wallcharger`
`14:11.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`...and proved it DOEs NOT charge in this mode`
`14:13.00`	`*** join/#maemo xDaReaperx (~chatzilla@117.198.244.255)`
`14:13.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so first Q to ichinix should've been "does it show NOLO with USB icon in upper right corner?"`
`14:14.01`	`xDaReaperx`	`DocScrutinizer`
`14:14.09`	`xDaReaperx`	`need's your help *`
`14:14.39`	`xDaReaperx`	`could you analyze my problem http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63167`
`14:16.18`	`*** join/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B288540.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:16.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`confirmed, without VBUS NOLO won't enter flashing mode`
`14:17.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so if it refuses to show NOLO & USB icon, check what makes VBUS fail. Try with wallcharger instead of desktop PC`
`14:19.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`then OTOH when VBUS fails, there's no reason at all for N900 to boot up on USB plug in`
`14:19.53`	`*** join/#maemo kds (~kds@nat/nokia/x-awupavhlehjyamft)`
`14:20.32`	`DocScrutinizer`	`except when host disables VBUS on first short moment of NOLO trying to start charging`
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`14:21.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`So if it works on wallcharger but not on host PC, try a different host PC box then (with possibly better USB hw)`
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`14:22.27`	`*** join/#maemo kama (~kama@2001:470:c850:1::2)`
`14:22.30`	`kama`	`hello`
`14:23.11`	`kama`	`do you know how to export the maemo calendar?`
`14:23.18`	`kama`	`thanks`
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`14:25.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`xDaReaperx: first comments: hidden SSID is absolutely deprecated, causes battery drain and security threats to both your N900 and your whole WLAN`
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`14:26.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`xDaReaperx: make sure your WPA2-PSK is correct. There's a lot of variations on how to correctly enter such a key`
`14:27.20`	`xDaReaperx`	`Okay my SSID is not longer hidden , still gives up the same error ... i'll try to work out with the key`
`14:27.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`your method on N900 might not be compatible with what is suggested and assumed in your shool/dad's/whatever network`
`14:28.11`	`Corsac`	`DocScrutinizer: what kind of security threat does hidden ssid causes?`
`14:28.28`	`xDaReaperx`	`i was about to ask that ^`
`14:29.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`your client device broadcasting all names of networks with hidden SSIDS, for example, whenever it encounters a AP with hidden SSID`
`14:29.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so any rogue AP gets suggestions for free how to lure you into associating with it and think it's your 'own' network`
`14:30.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`also eats lots of battery`
`14:30.17`	`*** join/#maemo mikeos (~mikeos@unaffiliated/mikeos)`
`14:30.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`further threats are more complicated to explain`
`14:30.29`	`kama`	`no one knows how to sync n900 calendar with korganizer?`
`14:30.34`	`*** join/#maemo trupheenix (~trupheeni@14.96.68.57)`
`14:30.36`	`DocScrutinizer`	`(tbh I can't exactly remember right now)`
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`14:30.50`	`Corsac`	`that looks like an n900 issue`
`14:30.53`	`Corsac`	`not an hidden ssid issue`
`14:30.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`kama: there are lengthy threads in tmo about syncing`
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`14:31.37`	`Corsac`	`(and tbh, mutual authentication is the only real way to be sure you're not associating with the wrong AP)`
`14:31.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Corsac: the problem sketched above is a generic WLAN+hidden_SSID issue`
`14:31.45`	`xDaReaperx`	`Damn i just tried changing the WPA pass phrase to something much compromising , and also switched from WPA 2 to WPA`
`14:31.54`	`xDaReaperx`	`still no hope ...`
`14:32.09`	`Corsac`	`DocScrutinizer: is it required by the norm to broadcast all remembered hidden ssid when you encounter one hidden ssid?`
`14:32.15`	`Corsac`	`it would find that pretty weird`
`14:32.25`	`ieatlint`	`xDaReaperx: apparently dmesg will show info about connecting`
`14:32.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hidden SSID: DEPRECATED! just don't do it!`
`14:32.36`	`ieatlint`	`take a look at what it says is going on`
`14:32.38`	`Corsac`	`ok so the security reason was just fud :)`
`14:32.45`	`xDaReaperx`	`No My SSID is no longer hidden`
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`14:34.21`	`kama`	`DocScrutinizer: i found only solution that uses gpe-calendar/gmail.....but i just want to export ics from the "default" maemo calendar`
`14:34.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Corsac: how's your client going to ask AP with hidden SSID about the name of it?? There's no other way than asking "are you MY1STHIDDENSSID ? are you Ny"ndHiddenSSID ?" and so on. No?`
`14:34.32`	`kama`	`is it possible?`
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`14:34.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`kama: not ootb`
`14:35.12`	`kama`	`good`
`14:35.14`	`kama`	`:)`
`14:35.20`	`kama`	`thank you`
`14:35.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I gave up on it so far, just copying vcards back and forth`
`14:35.29`	`Corsac`	`DocScrutinizer: don't try to connect automagically to hidden networks, that's all?`
`14:36.05`	`xDaReaperx`	`DocScrutinizer : I've completly switched off Security encryption for my WiFi , it still wont connect`
`14:36.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Corsac: if you got hidden SSID connections configured, what do you expect network layer to do about it?`
`14:36.15`	`Corsac`	`(note that some implementations send probe request for each and every ssid they know anyway)`
`14:36.18`	`xDaReaperx`	`Also - SSID is no longer hidden *`
`14:36.19`	`Corsac`	`(hidden or not)`
`14:36.29`	`Corsac`	`DocScrutinizer: don't do anything until user request it?`
`14:36.44`	`ieatlint`	`xDaReaperx: take a look at dmesg, it should log what is happening`
`14:36.54`	`xDaReaperx`	`ok`
`14:36.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Corsac: don't move focus away from original topic!`
`14:36.56`	`Corsac`	`hidden ssid aren't exactly supposed to be joined automatically imho, it's not really consistent`
`14:37.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`cya all`
`14:38.13`	`ieatlint`	`cya`
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`14:44.08`	`*** join/#maemo ichinix (~ichinix@g140194.upc-g.chello.nl)`
`14:44.21`	`ichinix`	`im back :)`
`14:45.40`	`ichinix`	`darn i forgot the guys name who helped me :) anyway im the guy from a couple of min ago with the broken nokia`
`14:45.59`	`ichinix`	`and it looks like its fixed now so i wanna thank you for your help :)`
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`14:46.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`14:47.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`Congrats.`
`14:47.27`	`ichinix`	`thanks :)`
`14:47.33`	`crashanddie`	`ichinix, docscrutinizer and SpeedEvil helped you`
`14:48.08`	`ichinix`	`cool thanks everyone for helping a nokia noob like me xD`
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`14:48.48`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`ichinix: was a pleasure`
`14:49.16`	`ichinix`	`so what i just did i can consider that as reinstalling my phone ?`
`14:49.35`	`crashanddie`	`if you reflashed it? Yes.`
`14:50.11`	`*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@186.212.114.106)`
`14:50.49`	`ichinix`	`cool :) makes me more comfortable messing with my phone as i would with my computer xD`
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`14:52.09`	`ichinix`	`So in that case ull be seeing me more often here trying to get help and hopefully givehelp in the future :P`
`14:52.15`	`ichinix`	`lol`
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`15:02.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ichinix: welcome. And of course all contributions appreciated`
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`15:17.22`	`tcostigl`	`I installed MyMenu on my n900 to try it out. When I uninstalled today all my shortcuts, except for a few are gone. I can't even start App Manager or xterm... any ideas how to get them back?`
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`15:30.10`	`timeless_mbp`	`ooh, i've made it to 8 days ago`
`15:32.19`	`Jaffa`	`Af'noon`
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`15:38.23`	`mgedmin`	`good luck with your time travels, timeless_mbp`
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`15:41.12`	`timeless_mbp`	`mgedmin: thanks`
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`15:44.45`	`opdf2`	`besides clearing saved passwords, Is there a way to have microb ask to remember password after saying never remember?`
`15:45.45`	`timeless_mbp`	`the choice is saved somewhere`
`15:45.57`	`timeless_mbp`	`so technically you could go to the right place and locally zap it`
`15:46.38`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Remembering+passwords#Remembering_passwords`
`15:46.47`	`timeless_mbp`	`is the relevant mozilla kb for it`
`15:47.08`	`timeless_mbp`	`i'm not sure the pref window code is available, but you should be able to pull it in`
`15:47.13`	`timeless_mbp`	`(or manually follow it)`
`15:47.35`	`timeless_mbp`	`in a future less hacky browser, that preference would be exposed in a site properties page`
`15:47.39`	`timeless_mbp`	`s/page/view/`
`15:47.51`	`timeless_mbp`	`in fennec, such a thing would be exposed as part of Larry`
`15:48.30`	`timeless_mbp`	`although, googling for Larry fails miserably`
`15:49.16`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://www.dria.org/wordpress/archives/2008/05/06/635/ for lack of a better hit`
`15:50.00`	`opdf2`	`I edited signons.sqlite`
`15:50.01`	`*** join/#maemo booiiing (~booiiing@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net)`
`15:50.05`	`opdf2`	`deleted site entry`
`15:50.08`	`opdf2`	`works fine`
`15:50.22`	`opdf2`	`it's in /home/user/.mozilla/microb`
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`15:55.23`	`opdf2`	`hmm I don't remember putting Ovi Store in never remember`
`15:55.33`	`wazd`	`Seriously, I thought Gizmodo is not that "crazy american" (in a bad way) blog. Failed.`
`15:55.52`	`opdf2`	`can someone check if that is an entry in/home/user/.mozilla/microb/signons.sqlite ?`
`16:02.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`ls -l /home/user/.mozilla/microb/signons.sqlite`
`16:02.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`-rw-r--r-- 1 user users 23552 Oct 1 21:28 /home/user/.mozilla/microb/signons.sqlite`
`16:04.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`sqlite3 signons.sqlirte`
`16:04.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`.tables`
`16:04.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`moz_disabledHosts moz_logins`
`16:04.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`sqlite> .dump moz_disabledHosts`
`16:04.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`...`
`16:05.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`err, isn't there "an app for it"?`
`16:06.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`microb addon certs, addon xyz - pkg ?`
`16:06.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`something weird using xulrunner or somesuch`
`16:06.52`	`timeless_mbp`	`probably`
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`16:14.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`microb-engine-common-ext - Cert and password manager for microb. hmm...`
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`16:30.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`SpeedEvil: .dump is really nice :-) ON CONFLICT REPLACE - damn my SQL got rusty over the decades`
`16:32.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`could it be somewhat related to sqlite3 ? got a weird 100% CPU for quite some minutes`
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`16:34.20`	`dsg`	`Trying again in case someone knows: anyone has any idea what the key/cert in /etc/certs/trusted/root.key and root.ca do? They're used in maemo-security-certman ./lib/security/libbb5stub.cpp in bb5_init and bb5_finish at least.`
`16:34.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`Odon't think there is a sqlited or anything like that`
`16:34.37`	`dsg`	`Googling bb5 just tells me it's something to do with carrier locks.`
`16:35.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bb5 is the cellmo chip rapuyama`
`16:35.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so I'd guess that cert is related to cellmo FW update verification`
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`16:36.50`	`dsg`	`Yeah. I just thought it was very odd to have a key/cert pair where the private key is publically known. :)`
`16:36.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or it's the carrier's cert to verify unlock code for simlocked devices?`
`16:37.01`	`dsg`	`DocScrutinizer: It's the same on all devices.`
`16:37.06`	`dsg`	`From http://gitorious.org/maemo-5-certificate-manager/maemo-security-certman/commit/b551ece82b3707baaea1f40cca15e435f05c0da4`
`16:37.37`	`*** join/#maemo jas4711 (~jas@79.138.178.198.bredband.tre.se)`
`16:37.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, k. NFC bout certs, only can tell you bb5 is the modem/phone hardware's name`
`16:38.07`	`dsg`	`ok, thanks :)`
`16:39.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`please keep us updated about your findings, that's an intriguing topic`
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`16:40.58`	`lcuk`	`yo lardman \o`
`16:41.11`	`lardman`	`hi lcuk`
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`16:42.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`dsg: I would guess it's the key used to verify the cellmo firmware is plausible before uploading it to the modem. Which is probably signed itself in a different manner.`
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`16:42.58`	`lolcat^`	`My N900 is stuck in a reboot-loop`
`16:43.07`	`lolcat^`	`Back to the N97 Mini then`
`16:43.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lolcat^: so what? you came here to tell us that?`
`16:44.08`	`lolcat^`	`Yep`
`16:44.21`	`lolcat^`	`I guess I will give it back to the shop and hope they give me a new one`
`16:44.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`adds a mark on the chalkboard, category 'useless information'`
`16:45.19`	`lolcat^`	`How is that useless? The device is weird. I wouldn't mind knowing how to fix it...`
`16:45.47`	`lcuk`	`lolcat^, it would help to know what you did to it before it broke on you`
`16:45.54`	`lcuk`	`so others can save themselves`
`16:46.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: he's not even asking for any help?`
`16:46.14`	`lolcat^`	`I ssh'd into it to mess with my gf. Then I ran htop and killed a bunch of prosesses!`
`16:47.00`	`lolcat^`	`It was fun for a while. Then I recived a call from a friend, we talked for like 20 minutes. Then it said: "Phone-program has to be closed" (poorly translated)`
`16:47.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: he came here to let us know "N900=weird." & "going back to N97"`
`16:47.28`	`lolcat^`	`DocScrutinizer: No, I will get my N900 fixed! I need a smartphone!`
`16:47.56`	`RST38h`	`Actually, it would not help to know how he broke it`
`16:47.58`	`*** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ`
`16:47.59`	`lolcat^`	`After that the phone wouldn't call, so I tried to reboot. And then it started reboot looping.`
`16:48.03`	`*** kick/#maemo [DocScrutinizer51!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)`
`16:48.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`himm.`
`16:48.14`	`*** kick/#maemo [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)`
`16:48.15`	`*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg)`
`16:48.16`	`RST38h`	`But it would help if he switched to N97 and went away to some Symbian forum`
`16:48.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`I wonder if you'ver flattened thebattery`
`16:48.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`~flatbattery`
`16:48.31`	`lolcat^`	`for a moment I thougth DocScrutinizer kicked himself`
`16:48.31`	`lcuk`	`thinking the same SpeedEvil`
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`16:48.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`~flatbat`
`16:48.42`	`lolcat^`	`SpeedEvil: It was flatt when I bougth it, display device`
`16:49.03`	`lcuk`	`lolcat^, just try leaving it on charge over night?`
`16:49.16`	`lcuk`	`or will it cycle`
`16:49.17`	`*** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`16:49.25`	`lolcat^`	`lcuk: But it havent been flat for at least a month.`
`16:50.02`	`lcuk`	`awesome, you have one of the new nuclear batteries`
`16:50.07`	`lolcat^`	`And is there any spotify solution?`
`16:50.21`	`lolcat^`	`lcuk: I charge it when I am home. I am usually home...`
`16:50.28`	`lcuk`	`I think your rebootify issue needs a solutionify`
`16:50.30`	`*** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@193.147.165.149)`
`16:50.48`	`lcuk`	`its just a thought lolcat^`
`16:50.52`	`*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)`
`16:51.18`	`lolcat^`	`lcuk: Ok, thanks will try`
`16:53.35`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik (~puphome@p54B2BD29.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:56.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`meh, not even kicking myself helped`
`16:57.26`	`ccooke`	`DocScrutinizer: kicking won't help. /kill will, but you need to be an IC op for that :-)`
`16:57.43`	`lcuk`	`hey ccooke \o`
`16:57.59`	`ccooke`	`hiya :-)`
`16:57.59`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`ccooke: orly?`
`16:58.33`	`ccooke`	`DocScrutinizer51: Too many irc apps will automatically rejoin channels. Very bad form, and all that`
`17:00.16`	`ShadowJK`	`well, mine would reoonnect+rejoin, but doesn't rejoin`
`17:01.40`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`hmm, the problem is I'm not supposed to have any ignores active. But nevermind, there's nothing to delay that trouble comin every day (FZ). foul Mood + Noobs just doesn't please`
`17:03.26`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`this special kind of noobs trolling with first statement like 'n900 is weird, back to xy sybian. Shop will fix my mess"`
`17:04.12`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`as if anybody would care at all`
`17:06.01`	`*** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.145.98)`
`17:06.21`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`seems like RST38h quite sympathized on my feelings about that`
`17:06.43`	`*** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@ZYYMYDCCIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)`
`17:10.14`	`*** join/#maemo kerute (~kerute@kerunix.com)`
`17:10.25`	`RST38h`	`wonders why not use /ignore`
`17:15.00`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`RST38h: got spanking for that as chanops aren't supposed to`
`17:15.07`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`17:15.43`	`*** join/#maemo qhubekela (~qhubekela@41.211.32.81)`
`17:17.13`	`*** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-238-107.dynamic.ngi.it)`
`17:18.13`	`*** join/#maemo summel (~quassel@142-166-19-84.nbiserv.com)`
`17:18.44`	`GAN900`	`DocScrutinizer, burn it down.`
`17:19.23`	`septiq`	`For information, i bricked my n900 using BackupMenu by robbiethe1st, even the nokia care center was unable to reflash it, be careful`
`17:19.29`	`*** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@84.79.25.26)`
`17:19.52`	`kerio`	`lies`
`17:20.11`	`Stskeeps`	`septiq: well, that's what you get for writing directly to NAND`
`17:20.28`	`Stskeeps`	`septiq: i'm willing to bet with a specially crafted initrd that i could get it back to life`
`17:20.31`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`17:20.49`	`Myrtti`	`curiosity always, ALWAYS kills the cat`
`17:21.00`	`lardman`	`hands Stskeeps a special craft knife`
`17:21.54`	`*** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr)`
`17:22.16`	`septiq`	`i managed to recover once by flashing then i had the stupid idea to try again, finally i never succedeed in re-flashing`
`17:22.26`	`lardman`	`hmm, how has that bricked your N900 out of interest?`
`17:22.49`	`lardman`	`are you shadowz1337 from TMO?`
`17:23.36`	`septiq`	`lardman: it has been sent to nokia, now i have to wait 3/4 weeks`
`17:23.37`	`*** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@5265C40E.cm-8.dynamic.ziggo.nl)`
`17:24.25`	`lardman`	`ah, I see what backupmenu does now`
`17:24.33`	`septiq`	`i'd be glad if we had a safe solution for device cloning`
`17:25.18`	`septiq`	`actually; i have no idea why the dd with md5sum check failed in my case`
`17:25.31`	`*** join/#maemo jcrawford (~jcrawford@nat/nokia/x-hkxbzlunovumtdaz)`
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`17:26.13`	`*** join/#maemo Mousey (~wtfisme@sea02-v600-nat.marchex.com)`
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`17:26.22`	`septiq`	`has someone ever successfully cloned rootfs+optfs with BackupMenu ?`
`17:26.24`	`*** join/#maemo jreznik (~jreznik@36.173.broadband6.iol.cz)`
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`17:31.31`	`septiq`	`has anyone tried to patch Recaller for a better file naming scheme ?`
`17:32.05`	`pupnik`	`can't help, sorry`
`17:32.35`	`*** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm)`
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`17:39.26`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`septiq: NAND has arbitrary bad blocks, writing directly to phys dev is like begging for doom`
`17:40.04`	`*** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@84.79.25.26)`
`17:40.17`	`septiq`	`DocScrutinizer51: i wont forget your words`
`17:40.26`	`kerio`	`what does the NAND use? ubi?`
`17:40.30`	`kerio`	`or jffs2?`
`17:40.34`	`*** join/#maemo jonne\|reconnecte (~jonne@91.182.56.97)`
`17:41.00`	`*** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106)`
`17:46.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ubi afaik`
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`18:01.18`	`lcuk`	`arg i just blinded myself with the flash on n900 (jokingly close up accidental button firing)`
`18:02.19`	`*** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p5B107167.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:02.22`	`E0x`	`hmm i see , i can use n900 like not lethel weapon !`
`18:02.23`	`E0x`	`:P`
`18:04.32`	`nox-`	`moin`
`18:07.48`	`*** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com)`
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`18:12.15`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (~slauwers@LMontsouris-156-24-27-80.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`18:12.15`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)`
`18:13.54`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`lcuk: don't worry, ther'll be no permanent damage other than 2 black spots in your vision`
`18:15.47`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`my similar injury was caused by a 1W green laser though - luckily at 85° to the right, eleation 0`
`18:16.36`	`RST38h`	`With your last remaining eye...`
`18:16.41`	`RST38h`	`...don't look back into the laser`
`18:16.48`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`hehe`
`18:17.39`	`crashanddie`	`wtf`
`18:17.49`	`*** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm)`
`18:17.51`	`crashanddie`	`Just got an email from the so-called CTO`
`18:18.19`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`chief tech officer?`
`18:18.32`	`crashanddie`	`they're going to use a CLI PHP app to act as a proxy between HTTP clients, and our C++ server`
`18:18.55`	`*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (~fnoridans@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net)`
`18:18.56`	`crashanddie`	`main arguments are "PHP is better suited to talk to HTTP clients" and "PHP will be faster"`
`18:18.58`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`cough`
`18:19.22`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`doublecough`
`18:19.24`	`crashanddie`	`who the fuck put this monkey in charge?`
`18:19.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/share/ - those in the UK - t-mobile and orange free roaming`
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`18:20.09`	`GAN900`	`crashanddie, why do managers try to make technical decisions?`
`18:20.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`crashanddie: Have you considered a whip-round the IT staff to buy a contract on him?`
`18:20.29`	`crashanddie`	`GAN900, he's not a manager`
`18:20.53`	`crashanddie`	`GAN900, he's supposedly my manager, but I met him once during my interviewing process, and never had a single email (this is the first one) from him since I joined the company`
`18:21.10`	`crashanddie`	`nor phone call, or face-to-face`
`18:21.21`	`kerio`	`who the hell is that guy`
`18:21.28`	`nox-`	`that sounds like material for thedailywtf...`
`18:21.29`	`kerio`	`does he really get money from your company`
`18:21.40`	`crashanddie`	`he wrote the web UI for our main product`
`18:21.43`	`crashanddie`	`(I write the backend)`
`18:21.46`	`crashanddie`	`it's a dodgy PHP hack`
`18:22.24`	`crashanddie`	`apparently, he sees PHP as a solution to everything... Our C++ server already handles the HTTP connections, and provides them with a dynamically generated Javascript library, + a socket that streams all the required ata`
`18:22.32`	`crashanddie`	`s/ ata/data/`
`18:22.36`	`crashanddie`	`cock`
`18:23.00`	`jacekowski`	`penis`
`18:23.08`	`kerio`	`crashanddie: wait`
`18:23.10`	`*** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz)`
`18:23.15`	`kerio`	`so your server does everything already`
`18:23.20`	`kerio`	`and it works`
`18:23.22`	`johnsq`	`Hi`
`18:23.24`	`kerio`	`wtf does he want`
`18:24.00`	`crashanddie`	`kerio, our API isn't purty enough for the web team. They don't like the fact we generate our own javascript library, and the fact we don't use the JQuery standard (ie: $(bollocks))`
`18:24.07`	`*** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@84.13.69.83)`
`18:24.53`	`kerio`	`crashanddie: make it clear to their boss and their boss' boss that they'll be wasting time reimplementing what already works`
`18:24.56`	`*** join/#maemo lolcat^ (~nettworke@ti0069a380-dhcp0386.bb.online.no)`
`18:25.09`	`crashanddie`	`well, it's the CEO`
`18:25.33`	`crashanddie`	`I'm seeing him tomorrow anyway, and I'm having dinner with the engineering manager tonight`
`18:25.40`	`jacekowski`	`quite a bit time ago i was in charge dealing with servers for some browser based game`
`18:25.50`	`jacekowski`	`frontend was php`
`18:26.04`	`jacekowski`	`well, on start pretty much everything was php based`
`18:26.18`	`crashanddie`	`jacekowski, I can understand why the frontend can be PHP, it's a good language for everything around web-based stuff`
`18:26.25`	`jacekowski`	`and then stuff got rewriten as C with simple php extension to connect to frontend`
`18:26.28`	`jacekowski`	`backend*`
`18:26.30`	`crashanddie`	`jacekowski, but this is data streaming -- data which will be coming from the C++ server anyway`
`18:26.42`	`crashanddie`	`so they're just adding an extra hop for no good reaso`
`18:26.54`	`jacekowski`	`i can't imagine how`
`18:27.01`	`jacekowski`	`http server implemented in php?`
`18:27.11`	`johnsq`	`crashanddie: you can sell it better when it includes words like xml and java`
`18:27.18`	`jacekowski`	`or they are adding http server and php`
`18:27.23`	`*** join/#maemo FauxFaux (faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk)`
`18:27.24`	`crashanddie`	`johnsq, no java in this company, at all`
`18:27.28`	`jacekowski`	`johnsq: and bespoke`
`18:27.32`	`jacekowski`	`johnsq: cutting edge`
`18:28.49`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`18:29.11`	`crashanddie`	`jacekowski, the web interface comes from a PHP server, nobody is challenging that. It's just that the web interface is populated with data that is being streamed from a server, based on session information, etc. The session is handled by our C++ server. The data is generated and in memory on our C++ server. We already have a process that only does handling arbitrary connections from hundreds of hosts...`
`18:30.53`	`*** join/#maemo septiq_ (~septiq@93.19.114.177)`
`18:32.02`	`RST38h`	`crashanddie, you are not industry standard compliant until you have got Java!`
`18:32.11`	`RST38h`	`explodes in satanic laughter`
`18:33.10`	`jacekowski`	`yeah`
`18:33.13`	`jacekowski`	`c++ is too fast`
`18:33.16`	`jacekowski`	`to*`
`18:33.28`	`RST38h`	`C++ is a dying language, error prine, difficult to code in`
`18:33.33`	`RST38h`	`Go Java go!`
`18:34.11`	`*** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@sign-4d091b6c.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`18:34.12`	`*** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian)`
`18:34.17`	`crashanddie`	`We can stream to JSON, XML or SOAP, depending on the capabilities of the browser, and generate the javascripts libraries on the fly that allows the browsers to interpret that data... Now they're just going to ask us for XML, and they will translate it to JSON...`
`18:34.23`	`RST38h`	`Just consider the expense of hiring costly C++ programmers and letting them debug code for months!`
`18:34.34`	`crashanddie`	`anyway, going for dinner`
`18:34.37`	`crashanddie`	`later all, have a good one`
`18:34.39`	`RST38h`	`XML, yes, good`
`18:34.48`	`RST38h`	`XML is good, industry standard`
`18:36.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`knows of a 160G XML file.`
`18:36.15`	`*** join/#maemo rblank (~rblank@83.219.114.94)`
`18:36.49`	`*** join/#maemo timeless_xchat (~timeless@80-186-34-34.elisa-mobile.fi)`
`18:37.01`	`timeless_xchat`	`kicks xchat`
`18:37.22`	`pronto`	`xD`
`18:37.46`	`timeless_xchat`	`stealing focus while i'm typing isn't welcome. ..`
`18:37.57`	`*** join/#maemo babsher_ (~bionet@b172-25-177-0.nat.washington.edu)`
`18:38.19`	`GAN900`	`timeless_xchat, hey-ho, MicroB!. :P`
`18:38.49`	`Chani`	`focus stealing prevention ftw`
`18:39.09`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`timeless_xchat: :-o stealing focus?`
`18:39.31`	`timeless_xchat`	`i asked it to connect to freenode`
`18:39.44`	`timeless_xchat`	`when it connects, it will join #maemo`
`18:40.03`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`timeless_xchat: probably you should disable that notification cruft in xchat`
`18:40.08`	`timeless_xchat`	`but before it did, i started typing "/join"`
`18:41.43`	`timeless_xchat`	`except, before i got the "n" typed, it switched to #maemo where i got "normal" (well an "n" with prediction)`
`18:44.33`	`timeless_xchat`	`oh, cool, i have nearly 60k points from finnair`
`18:44.54`	`timeless_xchat`	`had been wondering about that for a while`
`18:45.31`	`GAN900`	`timeless_xchat, I like it when MicroB insists on pulling focus to the URL bar when I'm trying to search on Amazon.`
`18:46.15`	`timeless_xchat`	`nods`
`18:46.22`	`BCMM`	`SpeedEvil: i have to ask`
`18:46.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`?`
`18:47.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`oh`
`18:47.28`	`timeless_xchat`	`you can thank http://twitter.com/MeeGoMikko`
`18:47.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://planet.openstreetmap.org/planet-latest.osm.bz2`
`18:49.47`	`timeless_xchat`	`please remind him`
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`19:01.31`	`kerio`	`how do i set the fmtx's region again?`
`19:02.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`stabs the UKs infuckingsane mobile mast listing site.`
`19:02.29`	`SpeedEvil`	`I want a list of towers/IDs`
`19:02.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`so I can tell which one I'm connected to.`
`19:02.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`And which way I need to move to get a LOS.`
`19:02.45`	`Stskeeps`	`impossible after 11/9`
`19:02.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's not.`
`19:02.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's there.`
`19:03.00`	`FauxFaux`	`How does the AGPS service work?`
`19:03.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's just web0.1`
`19:03.15`	`Stskeeps`	`FauxFaux: $$$`
`19:03.26`	`Corsac`	`SpeedEvil: opencellid.org?`
`19:03.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/`
`19:03.32`	`kerio`	`everybody knows terrorists have no money`
`19:04.19`	`FauxFaux`	`That's pretty amazingly shocking.`
`19:05.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`I think it's designed to be shit.`
`19:05.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`You can't come up with a design that bad by simple incompetence.`
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`19:09.42`	`FauxFaux`	`You can by having more money than god due to selling vapourware and taking the highest bidder, though.`
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`19:52.11`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`SpeedEvil: don't blame UK BTS list, most of Europe doesn't have such thing at all`
`19:52.25`	`jacekowski`	`poland does`
`19:53.06`	`jacekowski`	`UKE requires operators to provide that, but just with address not gps location`
`19:53.23`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`SpeedEvil: checked openbmap and similar projects?`
`19:53.26`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://www.katu.com/news/local/104282999.html?ref=morestories Steve-Bill confusion FTW.`
`19:53.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes`
`19:53.35`	`jacekowski`	`however that law failed and they are not require do provide that in any user friendly format`
`19:53.52`	`jacekowski`	`so that data is avaliable on some non friendly website`
`19:53.55`	`jacekowski`	`but it's there`
`19:55.37`	`*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG)`
`19:56.40`	`MohammadAG`	`made a script to disable camera-ui, for those with a stupid school/university`
`19:57.20`	`joga`	`what does a school have to do with camera-ui?`
`19:59.15`	`MohammadAG`	`joga, my school doesn't allow phones with cameras, a simple dialog which shows them it's disables proves they're stupid`
`19:59.23`	`joga`	`lol`
`19:59.41`	`joga`	`why do they have a say to what features a phone can have`
`19:59.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`becasue they do.`
`20:00.00`	`MohammadAG`	`idk, I still don't follow their stupid rules`
`20:00.01`	`jacekowski`	`terrorists and stuff`
`20:00.05`	`MohammadAG`	`LOL`
`20:00.17`	`MohammadAG`	`http://i51.tinypic.com/wwk7yq.jpg is enough for them to believe it's borked`
`20:00.25`	`jacekowski`	`MohammadAG: are you looking like a terrorist?`
`20:00.28`	`MohammadAG`	`in really, it's just a moved /usr/bin/camera-ui, and a dialog`
`20:00.38`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`20:00.38`	`MohammadAG`	`do you look like*, nope`
`20:00.57`	`jacekowski`	`are you a terrorist?`
`20:01.03`	`Stskeeps`	`MohammadAG: +1 for cleverness`
`20:01.30`	`MohammadAG`	`jacekowski, maybe :P`
`20:01.33`	`MohammadAG`	`Stskeeps, hehehe`
`20:07.12`	`*** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl)`
`20:10.48`	`*** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)`
`20:11.27`	`MohammadAG`	`heh, I could get in deep shit if the school admin notices the app in devel`
`20:11.38`	`MohammadAG`	`he has an N900, and is quite a noob at using it`
`20:11.41`	`*** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@82-168-81-130.ip.telfort.nl)`
`20:13.54`	`Jaffa`	`MohammadAG: Uninstall the package and then copy over the contents, so if he asks to see HAM you can show it's not installed (or create a version not in user/ for your own purposes ;-))`
`20:14.20`	`MohammadAG`	`lol`
`20:14.40`	`*** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-123-50.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`20:14.47`	`MohammadAG`	`he won't ask for HAM, but he'll see my name in the Maintainer field when he browses the repo`
`20:14.51`	`MohammadAG`	`I doubt he'll notice it`
`20:15.43`	`GAN900`	`MohammadAG, what? You're the only person with your name? "That's not me, it's some kid in Canada."`
`20:16.48`	`MohammadAG`	`who has my email in the maintainer field? lol`
`20:17.21`	`MohammadAG`	`makes another 0.2 version of the script, which isn't in user/`
`20:17.32`	`MohammadAG`	`I'll install that on his device, he won't see the 0.1 version in HAM`
`20:17.38`	`MohammadAG`	`or I could raise that to over 9000`
`20:18.08`	`*** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`20:18.08`	`*** join/#maemo TiagoTiago (~TiagoTiag@201-95-187-246.dsl.telesp.net.br)`
`20:18.18`	`*** join/#maemo cardinal (~cardinal@a81-84-227-203.cpe.netcabo.pt)`
`20:18.20`	`TiagoTiago`	`hi`
`20:19.00`	`TiagoTiago`	`would it be safe to optify /usr/include?`
`20:20.52`	`*** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@82-168-81-130.ip.telfort.nl)`
`20:21.16`	`*** join/#maemo Erod (~Juno@unaffiliated/erod)`
`20:21.40`	`jacekowski`	`yep`
`20:21.51`	`*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu)`
`20:22.13`	`TiagoTiago`	`was that "yep" directed at me?`
`20:23.11`	`dRbiG`	`is there any app for maemo that allows to do stuff like change profile, turn on vibration etc. depending on my location?`
`20:24.20`	`TiagoTiago`	`there was a project called Shepperd(sp?), i dunno what happened to it`
`20:25.17`	`dRbiG`	`TiagoTiago: thx!`
`20:25.55`	`TiagoTiago`	`jacekowski, was that "yep" directed at me?`
`20:26.02`	`jacekowski`	`yep`
`20:26.13`	`*** join/#maemo jas4711 (~jas@109.58.46.236.bredband.tre.se)`
`20:26.23`	`TiagoTiago`	`ok, thanx`
`20:26.31`	`*** join/#maemo pet0r (5a993a67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.153.58.103)`
`20:31.19`	`TiagoTiago`	`alright, cya`
`20:32.18`	`*** join/#maemo mikeos (~mikeos@unaffiliated/mikeos)`
`20:32.50`	`*** join/#maemo lardman_ (~lardman@78.148.157.69)`
`20:35.04`	`*** join/#maemo root (~root@c-24-14-196-166.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`20:35.18`	`dRbiG`	`seems that shepperd is all talk no code ;)`
`20:35.38`	`dRbiG`	`shepherd*`
`20:35.52`	`Guest2502`	`what is an easy way to get Ã¶, Ã¥, Ã on the n900?`
`20:36.00`	`Guest2502`	`the three swedish characters?`
`20:36.11`	`dRbiG`	`probably find a way to change the keymap`
`20:36.17`	`Guest2502`	`on an english layout (I don't want to change language because I can't speak swedish, but I'm learning it)`
`20:37.17`	`nox-`	`maybe change keymap to add a compose key?`
`20:37.41`	`dRbiG`	`i know that under X you can set an 'english international' map which basically gives a lot of language specific characters`
`20:38.06`	`dRbiG`	`although afair only western & nothern europe of course`
`20:38.53`	`Guest2502`	`http://koo.fi/tech/2009/12/20/n900-scandinavic-letters-from-us-keyboard/ just what I wanted`
`20:40.02`	`MohammadAG`	`how do I center text in a gtk label?`
`20:40.26`	`dRbiG`	`probably by setting justify parameter`
`20:40.27`	`dRbiG`	`:)`
`20:40.48`	`MohammadAG`	`duh :P`
`20:41.20`	`Guest2502`	`quit`
`20:41.29`	`dRbiG`	`and i guess that you'll want to set it to JUSTIFY_CENTER ;)`
`20:44.55`	`felipec`	`hmm, getrusage doesn't seem to work correctly :(`
`20:47.01`	`*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@5ad4da8a.bb.sky.com)`
`20:47.01`	`*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu)`
`20:56.57`	`*** join/#maemo Do-m-pie (~Do-m-pie@195-241-24-17.ip.telfort.nl)`
`21:03.24`	`*** join/#maemo lardman\|home (~lardman@78.148.157.69)`
`21:05.27`	`*** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk)`
`21:06.54`	`*** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu)`
`21:10.31`	`*** join/#maemo ClaesBas (~ClaesBas@stock-zit3.8.cust.blixtvik.net)`
`21:14.19`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`diaeresis on vkbd IS a composite char`
`21:14.46`	`*** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`21:15.22`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`vkbd-¨ plus u is ü`
`21:16.02`	`*** join/#maemo Juozapas (~qzaz@78-56-252-56.static.zebra.lt)`
`21:19.11`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`21:19.36`	`Jaffa`	`DocScrutinizer51: All the third row are composed chars.`
`21:20.31`	`MohammadAG`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=835098#post835098`
`21:22.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`MohammadAG: can you do a tweaked version.`
`21:22.46`	`MohammadAG`	`SpeedEvil, shoot`
`21:22.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`MohammadAG: which when you open the shutter with the camera facing downward, simply calls flashlight.`
`21:23.01`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`21:23.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`If it is not facing downwards, it runs the original camera.`
`21:23.16`	`MohammadAG`	`hmm, that'd be a bit tricky, and a nice thing to have im`
`21:23.19`	`MohammadAG`	`imo*`
`21:23.52`	`MohammadAG`	`afk for a bit though`
`21:24.44`	`*** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@88.30.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com)`
`21:25.11`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`21:25.39`	`smhar`	`I do not when or how it started, but I can not update or install anything in my N900, I always get this error: "Application list partially refreshed. Some catalogs unavailable."`
`21:27.32`	`*** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80-186-253-57.elisa-mobile.fi)`
`21:28.48`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`21:31.07`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`21:33.02`	`*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@109.161.137.161)`
`21:34.10`	`smhar`	`what is the problem with freenode, I keep getting disconnected every two minutes?!!`
`21:34.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`smhar: Works for me.`
`21:34.50`	`SpeedEvil`	`And indeed all of the other 472 people here.`
`21:35.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`Perhaps your problems are linked.`
`21:35.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`might you have a proxy of some form, or a firewall in teh way that's getting in the way of outbound connections.`
`21:35.46`	`smhar`	`strange, whenever I post my message I get disconnected !`
`21:36.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`A long message?`
`21:36.14`	`smhar`	`SpeedEvil, I was not, not sure if my ISP is using a new setup`
`21:36.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`Pastebin it?`
`21:36.35`	`smhar`	`No, a short one: (((I do not when or how it started, but I can not update or install anything in my N900, I always get this error: "Application list partially refreshed. Some catalogs unavailable.")))`
`21:37.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`ummm...`
`21:37.04`	`*** join/#maemo Rhoruns (~Rhoruns@ip98-165-94-55.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`21:37.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`I think there is a details tab.`
`21:37.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`Click on it`
`21:41.24`	`*** join/#maemo jd (~jd@rocket.vel.lv)`
`21:41.24`	`*** join/#maemo jd (~jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)`
`21:42.07`	`*** join/#maemo jblue (~jbl@206-248-136-136.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`21:42.54`	`*** join/#maemo jd (~jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)`
`21:43.21`	`*** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@134.134.137.73)`
`21:47.46`	`*** join/#maemo septiq_ (~septiq@93.19.114.177)`
`21:47.52`	`*** join/#maemo hd (~jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)`
`21:48.57`	`triantares`	`smhar: try opening a terminal and "sudo apt-get update". That way you'll see which repo's are not responding.`
`21:50.54`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)`
`21:51.37`	`dolp`	`mmm.. why is el-v1.db created`
`21:52.31`	`*** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@bzq-218-125-200.red.bezeqint.net)`
`21:53.49`	`yacc`	`Any idea how to make x11vnc handle "symbols" that are available on the N900 keyboard only via "Sym"?`
`21:53.54`	`yacc`	`E.g. &`
`21:57.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Jaffa: sure, that's been an example`
`21:57.53`	`*** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@bzq-218-125-200.red.bezeqint.net)`
`21:58.22`	`*** join/#maemo willer_ (~willer@189.2.128.130)`
`21:58.43`	`*** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130)`
`21:58.44`	`crashanddie`	`if anyone speaks stupid, please translate, I have a hard time understanding: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=834512&postcount=35`
`21:58.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Jaffa: I' m convinced man is a thinking species`
`21:59.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Jaffa: if I give an example, everybody is able to extrapolate and find out about analogies`
`21:59.58`	`*** join/#maemo Macor (macer@lasziv.reprehensible.net)`
`22:00.32`	`triantares`	`crashanddie: there's a dictionary....too bad it's empty. ;)`
`22:00.33`	`*** join/#maemo yofel_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/yofel)`
`22:00.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`(<SpeedEvil> If it is not facing downwards,...) great!`
`22:00.53`	`crashanddie`	`triantares: I'm sorry?`
`22:02.46`	`triantares`	`crashanddie: I couldn't translate if it killed me . ;)`
`22:02.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG51: (facing down) need help?`
`22:03.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG51: actually should be fsckng simple`
`22:03.43`	`*** join/#maemo srw (~swo@p5DF3D1FD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`22:04.24`	`crashanddie`	`right`
`22:04.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG51: just read out current gmeter values fromn sysfs when camera slider open trigger goes off`
`22:05.07`	`MohammadAG51`	`DocScrutinizer, in psudeo code, read accelerometer values from some file in /sys, if values = face down, do this, else, that`
`22:05.22`	`MohammadAG51`	`now say that in C/C++ :P`
`22:05.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG51: exactly`
`22:05.54`	`MohammadAG51`	`would be easy in python, but with 256MB ram...`
`22:05.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG51: c'mon, I'll leave that to reader for exercise :-P`
`22:06.34`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's really C basics`
`22:06.37`	`MohammadAG51`	`lol`
`22:07.42`	`MohammadAG51`	`I skipped the basics when i learned the syntax`
`22:07.55`	`MohammadAG51`	`looks at book`
`22:08.04`	`MohammadAG51`	`hello world`
`22:08.09`	`MohammadAG51`	`40 pages`
`22:08.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`handle=fopen(path_to_gmeter_sysfsnode, rw); buffer=read(handle); x=sprintf(buffer, somenice%3D)`
`22:08.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`...`
`22:08.46`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I got nfc about C`
`22:09.04`	`*** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@126.30.213.193.static.cust.telenor.com)`
`22:09.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lemme rephrase: I need to read K&R just like you need to do`
`22:09.48`	`MohammadAG51`	`why did i google fopen`
`22:09.53`	`MohammadAG51`	`uses man-db`
`22:09.59`	`*** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@126.30.213.193.static.cust.telenor.com)`
`22:10.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`man fopen`
`22:10.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes, exactly`
`22:10.34`	`MohammadAG51`	`yeah`
`22:10.46`	`MohammadAG51`	`am i lagging?`
`22:10.54`	`MohammadAG51`	`xchat says there's 19s lag`
`22:10.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no, me`
`22:11.17`	`MohammadAG51`	`oh`
`22:11.22`	`DocScrutinizer`	`brain says there's "TOO MUCH" lag :-D`
`22:11.30`	`luke-jr_`	`DocScrutinizer: pretty sure your code = segfault`
`22:11.32`	`MohammadAG51`	`prepares corrupt image to reflash router`
`22:11.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`luke-jr_: I bet`
`22:11.51`	`luke-jr_`	`actually no, compile error`
`22:11.59`	`MohammadAG51`	`nice, a segfaulting example`
`22:12.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`luke-jr_: also you need proper error handling on failing fopen() etc`
`22:12.08`	`MohammadAG51`	`i got that from nokia once`
`22:12.13`	`luke-jr_`	`DocScrutinizer: any quotes around "rw"`
`22:12.20`	`luke-jr_`	`DocScrutinizer: and using fread, not read`
`22:12.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`rw for sure is BS`
`22:12.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes`
`22:12.41`	`luke-jr_`	`and not assigning a buffer to a return value`
`22:12.48`	`luke-jr_`	`and not using sprintf.`
`22:12.50`	`*** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@126.30.213.193.static.cust.telenor.com)`
`22:12.58`	`DocScrutinizer`	`toldya it's completely nonsensical`
`22:13.29`	`luke-jr_`	`sprintf is almost always wrong`
`22:13.35`	`luke-jr_`	`even when someone thinks it's right`
`22:13.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though, what's wrong with sprintf to dissect a string like "21 443 991" ?`
`22:13.53`	`*** join/#maemo angasule (~angasule@190.2.33.49)`
`22:14.05`	`luke-jr_`	`sprintf doesn't dissect strings.`
`22:14.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, maybe`
`22:14.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`was a shot from the hip, of a C senile`
`22:14.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`for(x=0;x<10;x++){if(strcmp(sprintf...`
`22:14.53`	`luke-jr_`	`scanf perhaps?`
`22:15.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`scanf sounds good, yes`
`22:15.14`	`luke-jr_`	`SpeedEvil: that's wrong for sure`
`22:15.14`	`nox-`	`fscanf`
`22:15.32`	`crashanddie`	`MohammadAG51: they took the repository offline`
`22:15.49`	`MohammadAG51`	`i'm assuming this is the sysfile? /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord`
`22:15.50`	`*** part/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa)`
`22:15.51`	`crashanddie`	`DocScrutinizer: CCnile?`
`22:15.51`	`luke-jr_`	`strcmp expects a char* argument`
`22:15.55`	`MohammadAG51`	`crashanddie, good enough for me`
`22:15.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`someone mentioned atoi some days ago :-P`
`22:15.58`	`luke-jr_`	`printf never return char`
`22:16.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`nil-e`
`22:16.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`MohammadAG51: yes`
`22:16.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ehh? repo offline??`
`22:16.46`	`Venemo`	`kerio: ping`
`22:16.54`	`luke-jr_`	`kerio: pin`
`22:16.56`	`luke-jr_`	`g`
`22:16.56`	`kerio`	`huh?`
`22:17.02`	`kerio`	`pong`
`22:17.07`	`luke-jr_`	`Venemo: pong`
`22:17.09`	`kerio`	`wtf did i do`
`22:17.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`pingpong`
`22:17.10`	`crashanddie`	`DocScrutinizer: spanish dudes hosting ovi material and gpl-modified binaries without source code`
`22:17.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`luke-jr: I know, it was not meant as sensible or even compilable code, but as a silly way to get sprintf to read strings. Sorta`
`22:17.17`	`luke-jr_`	`performs MITM on Venemo and kerio`
`22:17.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`BURN IN HELL`
`22:17.27`	`kerio`	`FEAR NOT! FOR I HAVE SSH!`
`22:17.34`	`Mousey`	`>_>`
`22:17.53`	`luke-jr_`	`presents Venemo with a phony key`
`22:17.54`	`MohammadAG51`	`kicks kerio in the nuts`
`22:18.01`	`luke-jr_`	`can he tell teh differenceâ?`
`22:18.03`	`kerio`	`thinks of MITM CPR`
`22:18.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`who's going to tear down that NAND killer backup-menu??`
`22:18.32`	`luke-jr_`	`Venemo: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3`
`22:18.50`	`kerio`	`no, really, what did i do`
`22:18.57`	`MohammadAG51`	`backupmenu is awesome, for stuff it wasn't made for`
`22:19.10`	`kerio`	`DocScrutinizer: why? we allow n900fly on extras`
`22:19.12`	`MohammadAG51`	`like preboot ssh, it rescued me from a reflash`
`22:19.17`	`luke-jr_`	`lol`
`22:19.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`kerio: see QA guidelines`
`22:19.39`	`kerio`	`and at least you get to keep your warranty with backupmenu :)`
`22:19.44`	`kerio`	`unlike n900fly`
`22:19.52`	`luke-jr_`	`what's it do?`
`22:20.03`	`kerio`	`"it's a software issue! it told me to throw the n900 as high as i could"`
`22:20.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`luke-jr_: backup? writes to NAND raw ifaik`
`22:20.31`	`luke-jr_`	`so?`
`22:20.33`	`Venemo`	`kerio: thanks for sharing with me eztv. :) this is all I wanted to say`
`22:20.52`	`MohammadAG51`	`luke-jr_, oh nothing much`
`22:21.03`	`MohammadAG51`	`let's just say it almost bricked my N900 permanently`
`22:21.12`	`luke-jr_`	`fun.`
`22:21.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`NAND has arbitrary bad blocks, writing raw is like dodging bird shot`
`22:21.26`	`kerio`	`OMG CALL THE **AA`
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`22:21.35`	`kerio`	`*shit`
`22:21.46`	`MohammadAG51`	`i had to boot a modified kernel to boot from the microSD, then ran from ubuntu cat /dev/zero to /dev/mtd5 then used flash_erase`
`22:21.57`	`MohammadAG51`	`then used flasher 6 times, till it worked`
`22:22.04`	`Venemo`	`lol`
`22:22.19`	`MohammadAG51`	`what's the proc file for bad mtd blocks again?`
`22:22.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so again:`
`22:22.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`who's going to tear down that NAND killer backup-menu??`
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`22:22.48`	`MohammadAG51`	`has it installed`
`22:23.00`	`MohammadAG51`	`till someone provides a preboot ssh alternative`
`22:24.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`tbh I don't really get it why it's so nasty. But it seems you can brick (SIC!) your N900 with it easily`
`22:24.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you'd think NOLO should know how to reformat a NAND and reflash a proper rootfs`
`22:25.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MohammadAG51: flash_erase probably is one of the tools that knows how to deal with and mark bad blocks in NAND`
`22:26.06`	`luke-jr_`	`â¦`
`22:26.23`	`luke-jr_`	`NOLO is part of NAND`
`22:26.27`	`DocScrutinizer`	`luke-jr_: ???`
`22:26.31`	`luke-jr_`	`if it erases NAND, then it erases NOLO`
`22:26.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`luke-jr_: yes, we all know`
`22:26.43`	`luke-jr_`	`and AFAIK, all badblock management is done by the ubi driver`
`22:26.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes`
`22:26.56`	`MohammadAG51`	`i used it on mtd5`
`22:27.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though prolly not initial bb-markup on formatting`
`22:27.15`	`MohammadAG51`	`which is the rootfs`
`22:27.50`	`lcuk`	`MohammadAG51, since pr1.1 theres a boot time hole on all devices`
`22:27.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`luke-jr_: if you hose the mtd which holds NOLO you got a different class of problem`
`22:28.06`	`MohammadAG51`	`lcuk, yep, I know`
`22:28.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`wtf is a boottime hole?`
`22:28.43`	`lcuk`	`isnt that the cleanest place to hook a rescue script to?`
`22:29.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: bootmenu? sure`
`22:29.09`	`lcuk`	`DocScrutinizer, a script stored on / is run on bootup if it exists and the keyboard is open`
`22:29.19`	`MohammadAG51`	`true, but when dsme kills a device i can't hook a rescue script :)`
`22:29.32`	`lcuk`	`most people get into a boot loop`
`22:29.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes, but it MUST NOT write to mtd raw physical device`
`22:29.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~2119`
`22:29.44`	`infobot`	`The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.`
`22:31.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: unlike mmc the mtd NAND raw devices have no layer between system and bad blocks on silicon`
`22:32.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ubifs is dealing with that`
`22:32.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's why writing raw to mtd fails usually`
`22:32.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it writes bad block marks to perfectly good blocks, and tries to use bad blocks like they were ok`
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`22:33.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`result: borked rootfs`
`22:33.52`	`lcuk`	`DocScrutinizer, the issue you are mentioning isn't normally an issue but the rescue script principle itself has been highlighted forever`
`22:34.09`	`lcuk`	`isnt the mtd normally only written by flashing tool?`
`22:34.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sorry? please rephrase`
`22:34.16`	`lcuk`	`with its checksums and stuff?`
`22:34.49`	`MohammadAG51`	`lcuk, backupmenu used dd`
`22:34.58`	`DocScrutinizer`	`to mtd aiui`
`22:35.38`	`DocScrutinizer`	`/dev/mtd? to be precise`
`22:35.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`which sends ubifs out of the door`
`22:36.30`	`lcuk`	`destructive confirmed high risk system halting app on -devel?`
`22:36.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes`
`22:37.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`bricking app even`
`22:37.24`	`lcuk`	`and you don't just mean modern bricking I gather?`
`22:37.28`	`MohammadAG51`	`/dev/mtd5`
`22:37.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and I know how to use "brick"`
`22:37.36`	`MohammadAG51`	`writing to /dev/mtd would brick`
`22:37.59`	`MohammadAG51`	`writing to mtd5 would semibrick`
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`22:38.12`	`MohammadAG51`	`you just have to use awesome timing and flashing skills :p`
`22:38.16`	`DocScrutinizer`	`still I dunno why NOLO, on flashing rootfs, doesn't succeed to just fix the shit`
`22:38.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`but obviously it doesn't, at least not that easily`
`22:39.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`anyway dd if=foo of=/dev/mtd5 is a BAD thing, and I'm asking again:`
`22:40.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`who's going to tear down that NAND killer backup-menu??`
`22:41.31`	`MohammadAG51`	`nobody`
`22:41.35`	`MohammadAG51`	`:P`
`22:41.54`	`lcuk`	`DocScrutinizer, send a mail to X-Fade and the council, let it be discussed properly.`
`22:42.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: I never used backup-menu and I'm not temped to do in near future, so all I can contribute is mere handwaving`
`22:43.56`	`lcuk`	`:) sometimes hand waving is all thats needed.`
`22:44.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, this here is as much handwaving as you'll see from my side`
`22:45.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`obviously there are guys in better position to kick off this thing proper`
`22:45.30`	`lcuk`	`<DocScrutinizer> and I know how to use "brick"`
`22:46.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: <DocScrutinizer> still I dunno why NOLO, on flashing rootfs, doesn't succeed to just fix the shit`
`22:46.51`	`lcuk`	`ffs, Jaffa if you read this in the morning, please review scrollback`
`22:47.36`	`lcuk`	`or X-Fade or any other council peeps`
`22:47.49`	`lcuk`	`can you see if there is reason to temporarily revoke this app from repository incase of a coding bug.`
`22:48.13`	`lcuk`	`DocScrutinizer believes its enough of a worry that it may brick brick devices`
`22:49.44`	`MohammadAG51`	`night`
`22:49.58`	`DocScrutinizer`	`nigght moh`
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`22:53.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lcuk: I've never looked into backup-menu app, and all my statements here are based on other factoids reported by MohammadAG51 nad others. I'm not feeling like doing a deep inspection if moh's "dd of=/dev/mtd5" is correct (and fatal), nor if any of the other assumptions is according to hard facts`
`22:54.40`	`DocScrutinizer`	`but if it rally is doing a dd to raw physical NAND, then there's obviously an issue as NAND has bad blocks that are dealt with in ubifs`
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`23:04.29`	`ShadowJK`	`writing to /dev/mtd* like it's a block device is just pure lunacy :/`
`23:04.59`	`kerio`	`hmm... what if you just read from it?`
`23:05.13`	`ShadowJK`	`that might work`
`23:05.17`	`ShadowJK`	`"work"`
`23:05.32`	`ShadowJK`	`but it's not a block device, normal block device semantics don't apply`
`23:05.33`	`kerio`	`would an hypotetical dd if=/dev/mtd of=file; dd if=file of=/dev/mtd work?`
`23:05.50`	`ShadowJK`	`I wouldn't trust it`
`23:05.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`not always`
`23:05.56`	`kerio`	`on the same /dev/mtd of course`
`23:06.02`	`ShadowJK`	`The writing might just be a bitwise AND operation`
`23:06.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it fails as soon as you change device, or your NAND earns a new bad block`
`23:06.29`	`ShadowJK`	`because the kernel probably doesn't erase stuff for you, normal block device semantics don't apply`
`23:06.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes, that too`
`23:07.01`	`ShadowJK`	`There's a kernel module for when you want to treat it as a block device, or when you want to emulate mtd on a block device`
`23:07.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you need to earse first. That's all ubifs domain`
`23:07.35`	`ShadowJK`	`But whether using the block device emulation to do read/write actually results in the same data on the raw mtd is another question..`
`23:07.42`	`kerio`	`ubifs <3`
`23:08.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`FFS, writing dd to /dev/mtd is as WRONG as it can get, anyway`
`23:08.45`	`ShadowJK`	`ubifs also keeps track of erased/partially erased/not erased blocks, and if you write to every one of them in a "restore" operation, they all become non-erased behind ubifs' back`
`23:08.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and if that's what backup-menu does, then we need to tear it down`
`23:09.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: true, but irrelevant in our case, as backup-menu is supposed to restore a whole rootfs prior to mandatory reboot`
`23:10.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`aiui`
`23:11.00`	`luke-jr_`	`isn't an erased block just one with all 1s?`
`23:11.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or 0's`
`23:11.10`	`ShadowJK`	`you just dd'd crap to the entire device, even if you've done a read-image write-iamge cycle without anything in between, you've actually changed the state of the device as tracked by the filesystem inside the image`
`23:11.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`depending on silicon technology`
`23:11.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ShadowJK: yes`
`23:12.43`	`luke-jr_`	`wonders if there's any NAND counter app that just uses a single NAND block to efficiently count a number`
`23:13.00`	`luke-jr_`	`eg, counting 11111111, 11111110, 11111100, 11111000, etc`
`23:19.22`	`asj`	`wtf is a "single NAND block" you can have a single gate, you can have an fpga cell, but what's a block? and if you mean an fpga cell who's and which version and are you sure it's nand?`
`23:20.08`	`asj`	`(and you can't store 8 bits in "a" anything, much less a 7400 ic...)`
`23:21.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`The individual bits are implemented as a NAND gate.`
`23:21.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`However, you can only erase ~128K at once`
`23:22.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`and write only ones.`
`23:22.22`	`asj`	`lol I should have read more than what luke-jr said`
`23:22.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_flash`
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`23:32.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`luke-jr_: you can flash 00000001, 00000011, 00000111..., as - like SpeedEvil says - you erase to zero, not to one, afaik`
`23:32.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`in a much larger scale that's what NAND write optimization does (as found in ubifs)`
`23:33.45`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it's just not erasing a whole 128k block for each 512 byte sector write, but remembers which 'sectors' are 'erased' so can be written safely`
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