| 00:00.29 | *** join/#maemo krau (~krau@bombadil.infradead.org) |
| 00:01.40 | luke-jr_ | [18:55:50] <DocScrutinizer> most commonly known is X server |
| 00:01.42 | luke-jr_ | [18:56:12] <Carneque> which is a box right? |
| 00:01.43 | luke-jr_ | LOL |
| 00:02.10 | DocScrutinizer | I was amazingly calm and reluctant, no? |
| 00:02.36 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, you seen this ticket? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 |
| 00:02.37 | povbot` | Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications |
| 00:02.54 | luke-jr_ | wrong is subjective |
| 00:02.55 | luke-jr_ | :p |
| 00:02.57 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, not yet |
| 00:02.57 | nox- | theres a patched .deb in there (and also my workaround) |
| 00:07.02 | nox- | luke-jr_, well a `real' xterm doesnt send an esc sequence for keypad enter either |
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| 00:09.01 | nox- | well or at least not a wrong one :) |
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| 00:39.07 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools :-D Thanks |
| 00:40.04 | nox- | yw :) |
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| 01:03.42 | yacc_ | any idea why an installed applet (flashlight-applet) doews not showup? |
| 01:04.53 | luke-jr_ | yacc_: it only shows up when the shutter is open, and the Camera app off |
| 01:05.23 | DocScrutinizer | yacc_: flashlight applet only shows up in system status menu |
| 01:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: actually it also shows when camera is still active, but it's useless :-P |
| 01:06.27 | luke-jr_ | [20:05:24] <halberd> you can be like jabba if you eat 10,000 calories a day- 5 loaves of bread at $2 a loaf |
| 01:06.37 | luke-jr_ | [20:05:33] <luke-jr_> Jabba isn't a human |
| 01:06.39 | luke-jr_ | [20:05:43] <halberd> jabba isn't real luke-jr |
| 01:06.47 | luke-jr_ | tell me he's lying! |
| 01:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | who's jabba? |
| 01:08.37 | luke-jr_ | Jabba the Hut! |
| 01:08.51 | luke-jr_ | you know, Pizza the Hut's cousin? |
| 01:09.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | nfc |
| 01:09.45 | luke-jr_ | ⦠|
| 01:09.51 | luke-jr_ | are you serious? O.o |
| 01:10.48 | luke-jr_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabba_the_Hutt |
| 01:16.26 | raster | MUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA |
| 01:26.40 | DocScrutinizer | raster: ??? :-D |
| 01:27.12 | raster | thats what jabba would say |
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| 01:27.58 | DocScrutinizer | aah, ok. I prefer hypnotoad |
| 01:28.14 | DocScrutinizer | r33b.net |
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| 01:38.51 | newbie007 | does anyone know how to animate a svg image on the n900.. I'm thinking of going javascript/setTimeout .. any better ideas? |
| 01:40.42 | newbie007 | fyi the clock is svg based, not sure if animation is supported "smil"? |
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| 01:50.54 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 01:51.41 | TiagoTiago | seems i might have somehow messed up the thing that autolocks the keysa and screen, it's set to do it but the screen stays lit and responding |
| 01:53.00 | TiagoTiago | i/e already treid rebooting as well as unsetting and setting it again |
| 01:53.55 | TiagoTiago | i've* |
| 01:55.56 | TiagoTiago | any idea how i can figure out how to fix this? |
| 01:57.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | try replacing mce.ini with a clean version |
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| 02:03.11 | TiagoTiago | can i paste the current contents of that file on pastebin for you to check if ythere is any bad parameters? |
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| 02:05.26 | TiagoTiago | http://pastebin.com/TGqjDe2u <- if you're willing |
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| 02:34.46 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, no obvious odds |
| 02:35.23 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: maybe you switched to "screen always on" in any app, like xchat? |
| 02:35.36 | pupnik | ttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/blindtype-vows-to-autocorrect-all-wrongs-by-replacing-your-virtu/ Ok, here's an invention I wish i'd had. "Blindtype" for android. |
| 02:37.12 | Termana | Looks like you could use it to mitigate you missing your h key as well |
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| 02:46.56 | pupnik | oh sorry |
| 02:47.21 | pupnik | nevertheless it's fun to try to think of how one would implement that |
| 02:49.40 | pupnik | ""Our application permissions model protects against this type of threat. When installing an application, users see a screen that explains clearly what information and system resources the application has permission to access, such as a user's phone number or sending an SMS. Users must explicitly approve this access in order to continue with the installation" << google on the recent virus announcement |
| 02:51.21 | Termana | pupnik, android virus? It's not like what google is saying isn't true - it DOES show you in fine grain detail what the application is allowed to do |
| 02:53.25 | pupnik | Termana: that's quite a nice feature, actually |
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| 02:56.28 | DocScrutinizer | SElinux? |
| 02:56.39 | DocScrutinizer | AppArmor? |
| 02:57.02 | DocScrutinizer | damn, we have that since ages, not like a new invention of google |
| 02:57.52 | nox- | tho maemo isnt using it (right? :) |
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| 03:10.18 | pupnik | way to miss the whole point in true geek fashion, dockane_ |
| 03:10.20 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: |
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| 03:32.47 | kwtm | Wow, nice bot. ~seen kwtm |
| 03:32.51 | kwtm | ~seen kwtm |
| 03:32.55 | infobot | kwtm is currently on #maemo (38m 35s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 4s, last said: '~seen kwtm'. |
| 03:33.06 | kwtm | Oh. I guess I have to be off for that to work. |
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| 04:01.36 | TiagoTiago | sorry, got distracted, as far as i know, i don't got anything set to keep the screen on |
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| 04:11.22 | DocScrutinizer | (bme) you might be interested: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_chargefloat_log |
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| 06:18.34 | jpinx-eeepc | I need to set the n900 up with the local mobile service, but they don't have n900 on their list. What's the next nearest model that uses similar settings? |
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| 06:29.38 | parsapersian | hi all |
| 06:30.02 | parsapersian | I can not connect to yahoo in conversations and acound with my nokia n900 mobile device , my error is : not signed in! i have same error with msn , but google talk and aim is ok ,, What should i do? |
| 06:33.28 | pupnik | http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/magazine/03FOB-medium-t.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss angry birds makes NYT |
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| 06:46.33 | messerting | Hi, I'm preparing a PDF presentation, and would like to be able to use the TV cable on my n900 (as a backup solution) |
| 06:46.47 | messerting | In what resolution would it be best to prepare the PDF? |
| 06:47.21 | messerting | I'm using LaTeX beamer, and the default of 800x600 doesn't look so good. Anyone has experince with this? |
| 06:50.12 | Stskeeps | 800x480 |
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| 06:56.25 | RST38h | moo, zap, Stskeeps |
| 06:57.40 | messerting | Stskeeps: ok, will try to find the option in beamer to set that resolution. thanks |
| 06:58.23 | Stskeeps | moo RST38h |
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| 07:38.04 | cotigao | hi, i am getting an error when trying to apt-get update from sbox arm target |
| 07:38.26 | cotigao | i following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution |
| 07:38.43 | cotigao | ERROR: http://pastebin.ca/1953136 |
| 07:38.54 | cotigao | its says packages not found |
| 07:42.01 | cotigao | please help! |
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| 08:00.18 | cotigao | hi, can anybody help me out here with this? http://pastebin.ca/1953143 |
| 08:00.25 | cotigao | **please |
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| 08:22.50 | tobis87 | Hi, seen this http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-October/027687.html ? Could this be backported or does maemo already make use of the hw. accel. for codecs? |
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| 08:29.16 | Stskeeps | it already does |
| 08:30.12 | cotigao | Stskeeps, i am having problems with apt-get update, http://pastebin.ca/1953143 |
| 08:30.57 | Stskeeps | cotigao: you've misconfigured your sb |
| 08:32.11 | cotigao | Stskeeps, but I am following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution |
| 08:32.30 | cotigao | Stskeeps, what possibly i could have overlooked? |
| 08:32.47 | Stskeeps | unsure |
| 08:32.55 | Stskeeps | has banned sb from his life permanently, so |
| 08:32.55 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 08:33.02 | tobis87 | Stskeeps: So it is just important to other projects, like the beagleboard and pandaboard. Maybe the vlc people could make use of it, but vlc for maemo seems to have stalled. |
| 08:33.12 | Stskeeps | tobis87: it's important for meego, too |
| 08:33.16 | Stskeeps | on n900 |
| 08:34.31 | tobis87 | Why? If it already uses it, what is new on this that it is available as source? |
| 08:35.12 | Stskeeps | it was always available as source, afaik |
| 08:37.18 | cotigao | Stskeeps, is there any alternative to this? ... i mean a documented one |
| 08:37.32 | Stskeeps | cotigao: you need to use the install script |
| 08:37.35 | Stskeeps | and it'll set it up proeprly |
| 08:37.49 | cotigao | Stskeeps, where can i get it? |
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| 08:38.33 | Stskeeps | cotigao: google a bit :) |
| 08:38.36 | Stskeeps | is off for shopping |
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| 08:39.58 | cotigao | Stskeeps, ahh.. ok thanks ... :) |
| 08:40.21 | tobis87 | Btw, do you know a bug which causes "DMA transaction error with device" ? This is all I get, if I want to use the hw encrypt. with 256-essiv. |
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| 08:52.33 | tobis87 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63208 , insane "12:Max. 1150Mhz" |
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| 09:52.21 | cotigao | hi, is there a away to disable charging in n900? |
| 09:52.26 | cotigao | *way |
| 09:52.32 | cotigao | *usb charging |
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| 09:55.28 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 09:55.40 | SpeedEvil | before you plug it in, stop bme |
| 09:55.48 | SpeedEvil | why? |
| 09:55.59 | SpeedEvil | start bme after |
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| 10:13.53 | TiagoTiago | hi |
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| 10:14.56 | TiagoTiago | is there a way i can see what my N900 is thinking when it decides to not lock the screen and keys after i leave it untouched for the required time for that? |
| 10:16.34 | TiagoTiago | somthing like a live readout of all the parameters it reads to consider whether to lock the screen due to timeout or not |
| 10:17.45 | TiagoTiago | or some other status indicator that would shed some light on why it isn't qorking as expected |
| 10:20.36 | jpinx-eeepc | my n900 is connected to the internet by usb to this eeepc and through it's wifi, everything works fine excpet application manager, which demands a connection from thte list. The usb connection is not listed, so how do I proceed? |
| 10:21.25 | jpinx-eeepc | or do I just do apt-get update and upgrade from a terminal? |
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| 12:07.47 | sivang | mornig all |
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| 12:09.25 | jacktheripper | why's parted not there for fremantle ? |
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| 12:12.31 | sivang | did some checking over tinymail, now I wonder if it is also reused for MeeGo? |
| 12:13.03 | sivang | If so, hasthe modest shortcomings stem from improper use of tinymail or from misdesign and coding in the modest mail client itself? |
| 12:13.13 | sivang | wonders if anybody have an idea |
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| 12:13.55 | Stskeeps | both, maybe |
| 12:14.04 | Stskeeps | i wish modest a horrible death |
| 12:14.20 | RST38h | Stskeeps:you think meego client will be better? |
| 12:14.48 | Stskeeps | RST38h: ref client is not in 1.1 due to bugs, so no |
| 12:14.58 | RST38h | sghs |
| 12:15.00 | sivang | Stskeeps: hehe |
| 12:15.09 | Stskeeps | RST38h: i hope someone sane will code a better one |
| 12:15.27 | RST38h | Stskeeps: I think, by now it is clear that the problem is not with built in apps. It is with the way they are developed... |
| 12:15.36 | sivang | Stskeeps: what would you propose as a middleware IMAP/pop local storage lib to be used? |
| 12:15.50 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Based on MMaemo4 and Maemo5 experience, won't happen |
| 12:15.54 | Stskeeps | RST38h: under rush? |
| 12:16.01 | Stskeeps | sivang: no idea |
| 12:16.05 | RST38h | Stskeeps: I can think of several reasons |
| 12:16.34 | sivang | and if you wondered, so the fact the backup tool has to accept my 'don't overritw' request makes it not restore apps as well |
| 12:16.37 | sivang | FWIW |
| 12:16.47 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: hence why my apps were not installed :) |
| 12:17.10 | RST38h | Stskeeps: 1) constant rush 2) unexperienced developers, with high turnaround 3) development policies preventing actual development from happening |
| 12:17.30 | RST38h | Stskeeps: 4) constantly changing priorities, with developers being shuffled between projects |
| 12:17.38 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: I knew I used HAM to install every one of them , I thought I was going crazy recalling doing so |
| 12:18.05 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Honestly, I have no idea which of these are affecting Maemo/Meego Devices, but some clearly are |
| 12:18.46 | sivang | tries to find a good linux imap lib with good performance and support for good caching. |
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| 12:19.42 | sivang | now what? the udate light is blinking and nothing happens in HAM |
| 12:19.47 | sivang | and it said it wasgoing to restore the apps |
| 12:21.12 | sivang | ah! after a while, things get clear. |
| 12:21.22 | sivang | notes HAM shoudl REALLY have some BETTER progress indication |
| 12:21.30 | sivang | I was going to click it away already |
| 12:21.34 | sivang | :-...( |
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| 12:21.52 | sivang | is FAM better at progress indication? |
| 12:21.53 | Termana | sivang, it would be nice if HAM just didnt suck. Period. |
| 12:22.27 | Termana | sivang, FAM is much better and much faster imo |
| 12:22.32 | Termana | fapman |
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| 12:22.38 | Termana | :p |
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| 12:23.29 | GAN900 | sivang, welcome to Maemo: Where it's all half-assed! |
| 12:24.32 | n900-space | hi all |
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| 12:26.04 | n900-space | i installed the latest nokia qt sdk, and when i launched the qt creator it says help is not installed. Any ideas why not? |
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| 12:30.33 | sivang | Termana: I will install it once th restore is finished, does it hae proper progress indication? |
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| 12:35.51 | TiagoTiago | it seems somtimes when i restart mce the autolock works a couple of times, but then it stops working again |
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| 12:39.04 | wazd | there's no FAM, there's only Fapman :D |
| 12:39.50 | RST38h | wazd:moooooooooooooo |
| 12:39.59 | wazd | RST38h: heya :) |
| 12:40.20 | Noobmonk3y | wooooop |
| 12:40.24 | MohammadAG | slaps Noobmonk3y around with a large frals |
| 12:40.31 | RST38h | wazd: http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/096/b/5/Russian_elephants_by_Waldemar_Kazak.jpg !!!! |
| 12:40.47 | Noobmonk3y | hey mo! |
| 12:41.31 | Noobmonk3y | hows the land of maemo today? |
| 12:41.41 | RST38h | sleepy. |
| 12:41.56 | TiagoTiago | my N900 doesn't feel like autolocking the screen anymore :( |
| 12:41.56 | Noobmonk3y | awwwwwww |
| 12:42.08 | wazd | RST38h: jeez :D |
| 12:42.20 | Noobmonk3y | Tiaago, has it got swine flu? |
| 12:42.22 | RST38h | sorry tohear that, I am afraid you will have to put it down |
| 12:44.40 | TiagoTiago | it isn't sneazing nor anything, and it isn't feverish either (for an N900, if it was a human it would need imediate medical attention) |
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| 12:48.17 | sivang | TiagoTiago: mine does this as well |
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| 12:48.28 | sivang | RST38h: hehe, using a sleep shot? |
| 12:50.00 | TiagoTiago | sivang, does what? Stop autolocking or just be warm? |
| 12:52.11 | sivang | TiagoTiago: both :) |
| 12:52.22 | sivang | what does MicroB have with geolocation? |
| 12:52.51 | TiagoTiago | any idea how i can fix the autolocking behavior? |
| 12:53.15 | sivang | there's a package maemo-geolocation, do I need it? (HAM restore asks me which packages to restore) |
| 12:53.34 | sivang | also, should I report a bug about the HAM oddity ? |
| 12:53.59 | TiagoTiago | there is an extension to let webpages see your location data (from GPS or cell network) |
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| 12:58.20 | MohammadAG | so |
| 12:58.35 | MohammadAG | should a thread which violates the GPL license be kept alive? |
| 12:58.55 | Stskeeps | report it for copyright infrigement or council? |
| 12:59.15 | sivang | MohammadAG: on the forum? |
| 12:59.28 | RST38h | How do you violate GPL in a foru thread? |
| 12:59.40 | MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=831506&postcount=1 |
| 12:59.40 | sivang | is curious as well |
| 12:59.40 | RST38h | No, really? |
| 12:59.53 | MohammadAG | they're distributing the neopwn kernel without a source |
| 12:59.54 | Stskeeps | RST38h: mentioning RMS's smell |
| 13:00.03 | MohammadAG | on their own repo |
| 13:00.11 | MohammadAG | and they're stating it's their property |
| 13:00.25 | Stskeeps | heh |
| 13:01.29 | TiagoTiago | talk with the owners of the intelectul property or whoever else enforces the GPL |
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| 13:01.58 | MohammadAG | the owner hasn't published the binaries publicly |
| 13:02.34 | TiagoTiago | i mean tell them what's going on so they can take action |
| 13:02.53 | RST38h | Mohammad: So how does he violate gpl? |
| 13:03.24 | TiagoTiago | releasing binnary copiled with GPL code without releasing source? |
| 13:03.27 | psycho_oreos | you do realise there's lots of source codes that hasn't been published.. much like that hacked fm-transmitter |
| 13:03.46 | MohammadAG | fmtxd? |
| 13:03.58 | MohammadAG | that isn't GPL licensed |
| 13:04.06 | TiagoTiago | ask them for the source, if they don't give you then report them to the authorities |
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| 13:04.41 | psycho_oreos | fmtx-si4713.ko |
| 13:05.06 | RST38h | Paleontologists Unearth Giant Fossilized Penguin |
| 13:05.19 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 13:06.04 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, talk to jacekowski then :) |
| 13:06.21 | MohammadAG | the source is available in the linux kernel, it has the numbers changed to match each other |
| 13:07.03 | psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, the plain one is available in the maemo patched linux kernel but not the hacked one :) so maybe jacekowski should also be reported? :) |
| 13:08.05 | MohammadAG | he can provide the source for it upon request, those guys can't |
| 13:08.30 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, the neopwn kernel doesn't have a public source |
| 13:08.43 | psycho_oreos | but why only on request? isn't that still somewhat a partial violation? |
| 13:08.48 | MohammadAG | no |
| 13:08.59 | psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, that's true but that module doesn't have a source until requested |
| 13:09.13 | MohammadAG | sometimes I release binaries without a source |
| 13:09.22 | MohammadAG | and I get a PM (usually from Matan) about it |
| 13:09.37 | MohammadAG | then I provide the source (or the patches) |
| 13:10.24 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 13:10.34 | MohammadAG | thinks he found a way to disable transitions in hildon-desktop |
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| 13:11.52 | TiagoTiago | any idea how i can fix the autolock not happening, or at least figure out why? |
| 13:14.10 | psycho_oreos | hmm |
| 13:15.19 | MohammadAG | TiagoTiago, probably mce being an ass about it |
| 13:15.26 | MohammadAG | either restart mce and see if that works, or reboot |
| 13:15.31 | MohammadAG | stop mce then start mce |
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| 13:16.54 | TiagoTiago | nope |
| 13:17.40 | TiagoTiago | had already tried with the LED pattern editor, and rebooting, somtimes it works again, but that only lasts one or two unlocks |
| 13:17.56 | TiagoTiago | tried now with the commands you said, nothing changed |
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| 13:21.21 | Goliath23 | hi |
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| 13:21.39 | Goliath23 | is there a way for a homescreenwidget to programmatically change it's size? |
| 13:21.53 | Goliath23 | how does it play together with the values in the .desktop file? |
| 13:22.40 | DocScrutinizer | I already suggested mce.ini clean, but inspection of TiagoTiago's pastebin didn't show particular odds |
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| 13:24.09 | TiagoTiago | tried again and this time it locked once, i unlocked it and it isn´t locking again |
| 13:24.48 | TiagoTiago | i tried replacing it anyway still nothing |
| 13:25.20 | DocScrutinizer | alarmd, mce, dbus, damn that can be a lot of things |
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| 13:25.52 | TiagoTiago | no way to diagnose it? |
| 13:25.59 | DocScrutinizer | hard |
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| 13:26.30 | TiagoTiago | cars got plugs you stick a laptop in and it says what is wrong.... |
| 13:26.31 | Goliath23 | homescreenwidget on a n900 that is .. (hildon I guess) |
| 13:26.49 | DocScrutinizer | ltrace mce (if that doesn't instantly reboot your system) - alas you'll have to analyze the log yourself |
| 13:27.13 | TiagoTiago | there isn't a thing that says what mce is seeing and what it's thinking? |
| 13:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | not afaik |
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| 13:28.48 | TiagoTiago | i'll try that command you said |
| 13:28.56 | DocScrutinizer | but a dbus-monitor --system | less might help as well |
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| 13:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | if any app is disabling screen blanking, then it most likely will do via dbus msg to mce |
| 13:29.39 | TiagoTiago | ltrace not found :/ |
| 13:30.11 | TiagoTiago | i dont got less either :( |
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| 13:31.17 | DocScrutinizer | debugging mce isn't a ootb-usecase :-P |
| 13:31.39 | TiagoTiago | "ootb" ? |
| 13:31.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~ootb |
| 13:31.53 | DocScrutinizer | ~wtf ootb |
| 13:32.01 | DocScrutinizer | ~useless |
| 13:32.02 | infobot | ACTION starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( |
| 13:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | ~ootb is Out Of The Box |
| 13:32.14 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 13:32.21 | TiagoTiago | i see |
| 13:32.39 | *** join/#maemo Sickki (sickki@unaffiliated/sickki) |
| 13:32.42 | TiagoTiago | can i install somthing relativelly safe that will let me do it? |
| 13:32.58 | DocScrutinizer | apt-get insrall less ltrace |
| 13:33.25 | TiagoTiago | k |
| 13:33.41 | TiagoTiago | any other utils that might come in handy? |
| 13:33.54 | DocScrutinizer | dbus-monitor |
| 13:34.16 | DocScrutinizer | guess that's default install though |
| 13:34.16 | *** part/#maemo K0JIbKA (~nikobit@188.124.233.13) |
| 13:34.28 | DocScrutinizer | wonder ehy |
| 13:34.31 | *** join/#maemo vcgomes (~vcgomes@64.22.109.238) |
| 13:34.32 | DocScrutinizer | why* |
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| 13:35.38 | TiagoTiago | what should i look for in the scrolling text? |
| 13:36.07 | DocScrutinizer | a msg to mce, asking to keep screen unblanked |
| 13:36.26 | DocScrutinizer | check dbus pages e.g of jebba |
| 13:39.05 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p4FC231BE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:39.29 | TiagoTiago | that less thing doesn't update |
| 13:40.20 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~user@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) |
| 13:40.26 | TiagoTiago | "signal sender=:1.431 -> dest=(null destination) serial=380 path=/com/nokia/mce/signal; interface=com.nokia.mce.signal; member=system_inactivity_ind" ? |
| 13:40.30 | mc_teo | hey there |
| 13:40.45 | mc_teo | i finally got scratchbox all set up |
| 13:41.05 | mc_teo | and working with xepher server too |
| 13:41.35 | TiagoTiago | signal sender=:1.41 -> dest=(null destination) serial=6515 path=/com/nokia/iphbd; interface=com.nokia.iphbd; member=wakeup150 |
| 13:41.38 | TiagoTiago | ? |
| 13:42.18 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: yes, noticed that |
| 13:42.21 | mc_teo | first port of call, whats the easiest way to move things over to the n900 itsself? |
| 13:42.53 | TiagoTiago | that was another msg |
| 13:43.33 | TiagoTiago | two so far i've noticed had words that could indicate being related to my issue |
| 13:44.30 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:44.39 | mc_teo | i tried compiling winexe from its sourceforge source, and it compiles grand under both x86 and arm archs |
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| 13:45.17 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: sorry, I can't really help here. As mentioned above, you'll probably have to analyze the logs yourself |
| 13:45.19 | mc_teo | but i imagine it needs all of its own libs, etc, so how can i package them all together |
| 13:45.30 | TiagoTiago | :( |
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| 13:46.09 | TiagoTiago | gonna try that ltrace thing |
| 13:47.03 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: I honestly think your mce is segfaulting and gets restarted. Failing screenblanking is a known issue of restarted mce. |
| 13:47.35 | TiagoTiago | wold there be a log registring when it segfaults? |
| 13:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | you can probably check some files dsme-related the name of which I can't recall right now, to find out if mce got restarted |
| 13:48.16 | TiagoTiago | where can i find the names/paths? |
| 13:48.23 | DocScrutinizer | ask here |
| 13:48.44 | DocScrutinizer | or skim /var/* |
| 13:49.17 | DocScrutinizer | or google |
| 13:49.17 | TiagoTiago | ok, what is the name of the dsme related files that will tell me when mce got restarted? |
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| 13:51.14 | TiagoTiago | any suggestion of keywords that might speed up the search? |
| 13:54.20 | TiagoTiago | would the file have a .log extension? |
| 13:55.13 | DocScrutinizer | don't think so |
| 13:55.36 | TiagoTiago | or be inside a folder with log in the name? |
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| 13:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets |
| 13:58.47 | DocScrutinizer | etc |
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| 14:01.41 | TiagoTiago | mce itself isn't mentioned in the files there |
| 14:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: also a simple ps can tell you about mce's PID, and that will change on restarts |
| 14:03.01 | DocScrutinizer | syslog also might help |
| 14:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | but for sure the best clue is to remember what you installed or did immediately befor the problem started |
| 14:04.16 | DocScrutinizer | and the easiest fix is to reflash |
| 14:04.20 | TiagoTiago | :( |
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| 14:05.10 | steinex | [C |
| 14:05.17 | DocScrutinizer | uninstall fcam, it's known to interfere with mce |
| 14:05.28 | TiagoTiago | where do i find the syslog? |
| 14:06.11 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: there'll be none unless you installed syslogd |
| 14:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | dmesg might hold just enough of info though |
| 14:06.56 | TiagoTiago | i'll go install that |
| 14:07.08 | DocScrutinizer | first go uninstall fcam! |
| 14:08.42 | TiagoTiago | k |
| 14:11.09 | DocScrutinizer | fcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault |
| 14:11.42 | DocScrutinizer | iirc that is |
| 14:13.37 | TiagoTiago | should i reboot after uninstalling fcam? |
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| 14:15.48 | TiagoTiago | if reboot isn't needed then uninstalling it made no difference |
| 14:18.42 | TiagoTiago | ok, i'll reboot, brb |
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| 14:27.00 | TiagoTiago | seems that did it |
| 14:27.06 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 14:27.14 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart fcam |
| 14:27.14 | infobot | installs a bad bootloader on fcam and turns fcam into a brick |
| 14:27.16 | TiagoTiago | gonna reinstall fcam and see if the issue returns |
| 14:27.33 | DocScrutinizer | yes it will |
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| 14:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above, fcam does wrong things to indicator LED (google for fcam blink), and this will eventually lead to same problem again |
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| 14:29.43 | TiagoTiago | well, if it does happen again later, i'll know what to do, meanwhile i'll keep having manual settings avaiable for special shots |
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| 14:30.28 | MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> fcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault |
| 14:30.33 | MohammadAG | muhaha, noobs |
| 14:30.48 | MohammadAG | I added LED support to my app in a not so clean way, but it doesn't bother the CPU |
| 14:30.52 | MohammadAG | err, mce* |
| 14:31.38 | TiagoTiago | erm, it is still installed o.o |
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| 14:33.09 | TiagoTiago | lets see if it still autolocking.... |
| 14:33.59 | TiagoTiago | balls :( |
| 14:35.11 | TiagoTiago | removing it with other means now |
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| 14:39.06 | sivang | MohammadAG: mce = maemo camera engine? |
| 14:39.35 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 14:39.45 | sivang | how nice, usb hangups are no on the laptop as well :) |
| 14:39.56 | [XeN] | is now away: Hi, this is the answer mashine. Leave a message after the beep. Beep. |
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| 14:40.46 | TiagoTiago | ~mce |
| 14:40.46 | infobot | MCE = Machine Check Exception |
| 14:41.19 | TiagoTiago | i don't think that is it |
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| 14:41.57 | TiagoTiago | ~bce |
| 14:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | machine control entity |
| 14:42.15 | TiagoTiago | isn't it mode? |
| 14:42.20 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 14:42.24 | sivang | ah, yet another entity ,like the dsme |
| 14:42.29 | sivang | ~dsme |
| 14:42.29 | infobot | i guess dsme is Device State Management Entity |
| 14:42.38 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* yes |
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| 14:44.32 | DocScrutinizer | [XeN]: disable that away message! |
| 14:45.17 | sivang | so how does fcam makes mce segfault? |
| 14:45.49 | DocScrutinizer | it opens LP5523 sysfs nodes, so mce fails when trying to access those, afaik |
| 14:46.21 | DocScrutinizer | mce is stupid enough to simply segfault on such a simple problem |
| 14:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | fcam is ignorant enough to access lp5523 indicator LED sysnodes directly, instead of using well documented easy-to-use mce interface for that |
| 14:49.06 | TiagoTiago | but does it do it even if i don't fire up any camera program? |
| 14:49.46 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, camera-ui is started as a daemon, during boot. nfc what fcam does |
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| 14:51.06 | DocScrutinizer | I never really wraped my head around it. It's just a "meh, oh well..." for me, followed by immediate uninstall of fcam |
| 14:52.09 | TiagoTiago | having manual controls for the camera parameters is a big thing for certain types of photographers |
| 14:52.45 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 14:53.17 | DocScrutinizer | for me fcam never performed up to par to the genuine pr1.2 cam app |
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| 14:57.03 | DocScrutinizer | til PR1.2 the Nokia cam app was real crap. The PR1.2 though has improved a lot, and I'm quite happy with nightmode. So major PITA is you can't exactly remote control the camera-ui, for example to implement timer shots, or BT remote control shots (think of a BT headset pushbutton used to trigger a photo taken) |
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| 15:01.05 | RST38h | isn't sure what the "improvement" was. It is still crap, and the software has nothing to do with it. |
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| 15:02.47 | MohammadAG | what's the chmod to make users only able to see their own files? |
| 15:02.52 | MohammadAG | 777? |
| 15:02.53 | MohammadAG | nah |
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| 15:05.35 | TiagoTiago | use midnight commander or some other graphical interface to set permissions, no need for doing binary AND and binnary to decimal convertions in your head :) |
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| 15:06.25 | satmd | MohammadAG: no file on earth should need 777 |
| 15:06.43 | satmd | 0600 is user all, others none |
| 15:06.59 | sivang | MohammadAG: you can do somethin like chmod a-rwx , then chmod u+rwx on the ir with -R flag |
| 15:07.10 | sivang | or what satmd said :) |
| 15:07.29 | satmd | u=rw,g-rwx,o-rwx |
| 15:07.33 | satmd | or that one |
| 15:08.15 | MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:/home$ cd mohammad/ |
| 15:08.15 | MohammadAG | bash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied |
| 15:08.18 | MohammadAG | fvck |
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| 15:08.33 | satmd | oh, for directories, you'll need +x, too |
| 15:08.41 | marcus_ | So just checked Phoronix, and this came up "New to Wine 1.3.4 is support for right-to-left mirrored windows, Winelib now supporting the ARM architecture..." |
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| 15:08.56 | marcus_ | What does the last part affect? |
| 15:09.31 | satmd | probably you can compile windows-sourcecode against winelib to run on arm |
| 15:09.59 | sivang | MohammadAG: execute bit on directories mean the abilty to cd into them :P |
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| 15:12.36 | RST38h | Mohammad: go-rwx |
| 15:12.51 | MohammadAG | there's a number afaik |
| 15:13.24 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: not exactly. execute bit on dir means you can read the dir content, like in ls |
| 15:14.03 | Termana | MohammadAG, correct, there are lots of numbers in the universe. |
| 15:14.28 | DocScrutinizer | setting a dir -x sometimes comes handy, as world still can read files from that dir IF and only IF they know exact full path to file |
| 15:15.45 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: number? which number? 700 or what? |
| 15:15.47 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: ah, so you can still cd into it? Okay, everyday you learn something new |
| 15:16.17 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: ah no, you can just read files off of it if you know exact path. |
| 15:16.25 | TiagoTiago | what happens to GUI file browsers/managers? |
| 15:17.02 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x dir |
| 15:17.32 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG> bash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied |
| 15:17.46 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: wasn't that (if you know exact path) exactly what I told before? |
| 15:17.56 | nomis | DocScrutinizer: every process has a working directory you can change with chdir(2). |
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| 15:18.11 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: sorry I got confused, yes, this i exactly what you said |
| 15:18.12 | nomis | that is a process property, not really a shell thing. |
| 15:18.24 | MohammadAG | sivang, I can cd right now |
| 15:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: ack |
| 15:18.33 | MohammadAG | I want other users to not be able to |
| 15:18.58 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: RTFM |
| 15:19.08 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/270183/ |
| 15:19.38 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: 16:18 < DocScrutinizer> sivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x dir |
| 15:19.39 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't bite on unknown bait |
| 15:19.46 | dRbiG | hmm, the maemo sdk image for virtualpc fails at step three :S seems not to setup the scratchbox properly |
| 15:20.10 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-96-163.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 15:20.37 | sivang | MohammadAG: chmod a-x $DIR; chmod u+x $DIR |
| 15:21.32 | sivang | MohammadAG: I am using this to protect backup directories together with making them readonly for everybody unless I specifically make them writeable for root |
| 15:21.45 | sivang | MohammadAG: (the files in them, that is) |
| 15:22.29 | lindi- | sivang: you need to create the file directory initially with correct permissions. otherwise somebody can chdir there before you manage chmod it :) |
| 15:22.34 | lindi- | s/file // |
| 15:23.16 | sivang | lindi-: true, but no one can log into my machine other than me in a non catastrophic scenario |
| 15:23.30 | lindi- | ( mkdir -m og-rwx foo ) |
| 15:23.36 | sivang | lindi-: so challgne response passwords are disabled, and there only one account that uses SSH keys |
| 15:23.50 | sivang | lindi-: good note though :) |
| 15:24.15 | lindi- | sivang: indeed. it's a nasty limitation in *nix, you can't really revoke +x |
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| 15:29.43 | steinex | 4 |
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| 15:49.09 | Anunakin | can any talk me on how to use IRC plugin on n900, cant enter on rooms |
| 15:49.13 | Anunakin | ? |
| 15:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: interesting thought :-) |
| 15:50.56 | sivang | lindi-: why not ? if you create the this with -m og-rwx as you noted? |
| 15:50.59 | Anunakin | xchat works |
| 15:51.14 | lindi- | sivang: well that's not revoking then |
| 15:51.30 | lindi- | sivang: revoking means that you previously granted access but want to not grant it anymore |
| 15:51.32 | DocScrutinizer | idly wonders if a 'cd foo/bar; mv .. boo' still will cause havoc to filesystem like it used to some decades ago :-P |
| 15:52.06 | sivang | lindi-: well, but you can no? using chmod a-x and then chmod u+x ? |
| 15:52.10 | *** join/#maemo digitalsurgeon (~ahmad@jeg0.kyla.fi) |
| 15:52.13 | korhojoa | DocScrutinizer, try it |
| 15:52.26 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 15:52.49 | lindi- | sivang: that won't revoke access from people who have already used chdir to get to that dir |
| 15:52.56 | DocScrutinizer | lol, I'm not that much interested in it, but I'm rather sure some patch has blocked such nasty thing years ago |
| 15:53.13 | sivang | lindi-: ah right |
| 15:53.21 | sivang | lindi-: changes are not refelcted real time |
| 15:53.33 | lindi- | sivang: the only way to revoke is to reboot :) |
| 15:53.34 | sivang | lindi-: but that allows for the great concurrency *nix provide |
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| 15:54.51 | sivang | lindi-: so when one process accessed a folder, and nother one erased it, or chmod'd it, the former can still operate until it stops :) |
| 15:55.05 | sivang | lindi-: this does has rather some intereting side effects at time, but hey, nobdy's perfect |
| 15:57.08 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: revoking any resources would rewuire some async error feedback making an e.g fopen() in an alien process fail arbitrary time after it originally succeeded. That's really a big thing, and basically a nightmare to cope with, from a app developer POV |
| 15:58.54 | sivang | yays, N900 is now with pr1.2 and all apps restored. |
| 15:59.50 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B089D96.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:00.14 | sivang | the backup app is nice, just needs to continue what it was planning to do when refusing to overwrite files, |
| 16:00.48 | sivang | not ask the specific file but rahter "thre's a more recent contact data, do you want to restoe the backed up anyways?" |
| 16:01.04 | sivang | and maybe add file backup as well integrated |
| 16:05.41 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo (~user@178.167.216.229.threembb.ie) |
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| 16:13.19 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 16:20.30 | jpinx-eeepc | when I connect by gprs, which my provider has a proxy for, and then want to revert to my USB network through the gateway I have in the eeepc, I find that the proxy seems to still be in effect as I can not make http connections, but i can do stuff like irc yahoo etc on other ports. I fix it by cycling all the connections, but that is a real pain, is there any better way? |
| 16:24.19 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-127-228.dynamic.qsc.de) |
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| 16:27.00 | DocScrutinizer | yes, I'd suggest set proxy to none when establishing usb networking |
| 16:27.04 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-127-228.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 16:31.19 | sivang | hmm anyone seen his 3G network connection not available anymore from the network context menu after the upgrade? |
| 16:31.34 | sivang | thinks maybe he needs to do that carrier setup stupidity |
| 16:31.39 | sivang | where they send you an SMS |
| 16:31.47 | sivang | with some details and you have to do something with it |
| 16:32.11 | keesj_ | the upgrade? |
| 16:33.31 | sivang | keesj: ? |
| 16:33.58 | sivang | I just lost the "3G Network" connection but ironically I have an "MMS" one |
| 16:34.55 | jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: sure - but that is also a pain when I have to jump between them a lot |
| 16:36.22 | DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: so you got any better suggestion than to streamline the not really supported usb networking to make it fit into maemo's connection management scheme? |
| 16:36.57 | jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: I hadn't up till now, but if it needs doing I'll take a look |
| 16:42.05 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs55.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 16:42.35 | sivang | what adds the network connections possible to the choose network menu? |
| 16:48.13 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
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| 16:50.42 | sivang | cries |
| 16:50.56 | SpeedEvil | I think that's ICD |
| 16:50.58 | SpeedEvil | It's closed |
| 16:51.07 | sivang | ? |
| 16:51.30 | *** join/#maemo dvoid_ (~dvoid@h230n4-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 16:51.53 | *** part/#maemo zash (~zash@zash.se) |
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| 16:59.28 | piggz_ | hi, is there a problem with repository.maemo.org? |
| 16:59.34 | jacktheripper | isn't mmcblk0p2 only mounted through /home and /opt ? |
| 17:00.05 | jacktheripper | I umounted both and it's still saying Device or Resource busy. |
| 17:08.09 | *** join/#maemo juk (~juk@221.221.16.157) |
| 17:10.30 | GAN900 | SpeedEvil, yes. |
| 17:19.06 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~quassel@83.229.6.19) |
| 17:21.13 | juk | hey hey guys just ported catdoc! so exciting! considering how badly i was feeling yesterday, after messing with scratchbox I had to go for fresh install, was realy frustrating, but took advantage and upgraded to 10.10 yet another exciting event, everything is so shiny! and scratchbox install went smoothly, and emulation works, but first i have to start Xephyr and then from X86 box af-sb-init.sh start, i was wondering how actually I can interact in emulation, can I |
| 17:23.06 | *** join/#maemo piggz_ (~piggz@78.146.42.19) |
| 17:23.18 | *** join/#maemo Qantourisc (~Qantouris@d54C490DC.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:23.35 | Qantourisc | Can anyone explain me why Android is more favored ? |
| 17:24.07 | *** join/#maemo Pillum (~chatzilla@p4FF0C1DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:24.34 | juk | Qantourisc: device chiper can run it, non reach people dominating |
| 17:24.50 | Qantourisc | "non reach people" ? |
| 17:24.57 | Qantourisc | "device chiper" ? |
| 17:25.12 | Pillum | "can" ? |
| 17:25.24 | juk | Qantourisc: sorry for mispell, i can repeat |
| 17:25.43 | Qantourisc | juk: yes please i cannot correct the mispells |
| 17:29.02 | juk | Qantourisc: it can run on cheaper cost devices, and in my place price 300$ vs 500$ |
| 17:29.21 | Qantourisc | ooo nice |
| 17:29.52 | Qantourisc | still don't need a smartphone but i's getting closed, so reacheaching in advance |
| 17:30.13 | Qantourisc | and one of the weirder question will be how i do my IM :) |
| 17:30.30 | juk | Qantourisc: and in my place who can afford n900 is rich man |
| 17:30.44 | Qantourisc | :/ |
| 17:30.59 | Qantourisc | i don't even know if i want IM on my phone :) |
| 17:31.00 | juk | Qantourisc: still in doubt? |
| 17:31.05 | Qantourisc | in doubt over ? |
| 17:31.39 | juk | Qantourisc: you from Belgium or what? |
| 17:31.45 | Qantourisc | Correct |
| 17:32.19 | juk | Qantourisc: so no wonder, Belgium vs Asia |
| 17:32.20 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@77.127.123.33) |
| 17:32.35 | pupnik | how about a clamshell tablet with 2x 1280x600 screens hinged tightly to minimize bezel |
| 17:32.58 | Qantourisc | juk: ? |
| 17:34.30 | *** join/#maemo Otacon22 (~otacon22@93-36-76-17.ip59.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:34.51 | Otacon22 | Hi all, I have a problem on my N900 and evry time that i try to add something into the calendar i get "error" |
| 17:35.59 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@77.127.123.33) |
| 17:40.04 | juk | Qantourisc: ok, $43,533 vs $6,100, GDP per capita, Belgium vs China |
| 17:40.42 | Qantourisc | juk: serious price difference :) |
| 17:41.14 | juk | Qantourisc: what im talking about ;) |
| 17:42.22 | lcuk | Otacon22, hrm, thats not good |
| 17:42.35 | Otacon22 | :( |
| 17:42.44 | lcuk | pupnik, supposing you did, are we having any real gaming/keyboard controls on it too? |
| 17:42.56 | Otacon22 | The calendar opens, but when i try to add something inside i get "Error" |
| 17:43.04 | lcuk | Otacon22, do your existing cal entries work well? |
| 17:43.11 | lcuk | ie, edit an existing one |
| 17:43.17 | Otacon22 | wait |
| 17:43.26 | lcuk | makes a note in his calendar to wait |
| 17:44.25 | Otacon22 | I don't have entries here |
| 17:44.44 | Otacon22 | (i don't know if it is because i've just flashed |
| 17:45.07 | lcuk | did you restore from backup after you flashed too? |
| 17:45.19 | Otacon22 | no |
| 17:45.43 | Otacon22 | hum, i have an old backup, I'm going to try to put on that |
| 17:47.22 | *** join/#maemo Erod (~Juno@unaffiliated/erod) |
| 17:47.59 | pupnik | lcuk: i was wondering if something like that could be made useful and attractive, lcuk |
| 17:48.31 | lcuk | of course it could be pupnik |
| 17:48.38 | lcuk | i have been holding pairs of devices together for yonks |
| 17:49.09 | pupnik | i now |
| 17:49.24 | pupnik | i don't think it's attractive with that much bezel |
| 17:49.38 | lcuk | understandably so |
| 17:52.17 | lcuk | pupnik, are you meeting up with Carol this weekend? I noticed she flew into Germany |
| 17:57.21 | Qantourisc | Are there any phones where you can drop the latest ISO from android or maemo on without passing by your manufacturere ? |
| 17:58.11 | LjL | since when do android or maemo come as an ISO? :o |
| 17:58.30 | Qantourisc | or source, or build or whatever :) |
| 18:00.20 | Qantourisc | Still funny to see how companies use linux on there stuff, yet it's nothing like linux :/ |
| 18:01.32 | SpeedEvil | n900 is still only it |
| 18:02.00 | *** join/#maemo user___ (~user@80.179.6.197.static.012.net.il) |
| 18:02.05 | user___ | hi all |
| 18:02.34 | Qantourisc | SpeedEvil: yes i know, and if you want to install, you need to download from nokia ? |
| 18:02.43 | pupnik | how are n900's selling? any guesses? |
| 18:02.55 | SpeedEvil | probably slower thanthey were. |
| 18:03.08 | user___ | MohammadAG51: do you know how to enable 3g network after 1.2 upgrade ? this is sivang |
| 18:03.35 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 18:04.28 | luke-jr_ | user___: it just worked for me |
| 18:04.47 | user___ | luke-jr_: hmm |
| 18:05.34 | user___ | i dont know why it disappeared |
| 18:05.57 | user___ | but there was some mention of it but no solution in google |
| 18:06.23 | user___ | and i did chose latest firmware |
| 18:06.50 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 18:07.15 | lcuk | user___, isn't there an app which forces 2g only? |
| 18:07.20 | lcuk | that you mightv forgotten about |
| 18:07.38 | Qantourisc | on most phones you can configure if it should use 3G 2G Edge, etc ... |
| 18:08.42 | *** join/#maemo nuovodna (~nuovodna@93-45-219-114.ip104.fastwebnet.it) |
| 18:13.43 | user___ | lcuk: i specifically set itt to 3g trnasport |
| 18:13.47 | lcuk | user___, http://maemo.org/packages/view/3g2g-mode-selection-applet/ |
| 18:13.48 | lcuk | ok |
| 18:18.45 | user___ | lcuk: what odd is that MMS is there and i did not add fMMS back |
| 18:21.04 | Qantourisc | I think i'd best wait till netbooks become phones :) |
| 18:21.22 | ShadowJK | N900 and freerunner I'd guess |
| 18:21.28 | ShadowJK | but freerunner presents its own challenges :D |
| 18:21.35 | ShadowJK | maybe nexus one too |
| 18:21.41 | ShadowJK | but, drivers drivers drivers |
| 18:22.13 | Qantourisc | drivers is there own fault |
| 18:22.22 | Qantourisc | if you make a chip, write your drivers foss |
| 18:22.27 | Qantourisc | and no wories ever again |
| 18:23.06 | ShadowJK | sure, but from a user's point of view, freerunner and N900 are probably in the best driver position :/ |
| 18:26.06 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:29.22 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:35.15 | l0up | anyone using pymedia on n900? i cant get the setup script to detect ogg, vorbis, mp3lame, alsa etc |
| 18:38.57 | Qantourisc | l0up: no but i'm familiar with "crap" in general :) |
| 18:39.21 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-45-187.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 18:39.24 | Qantourisc | anything specific it says ? |
| 18:39.42 | jacktheripper | e2fsck tells me 'device or resource busy' while I totally umounted everything relate to /home and /opt |
| 18:40.06 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: did you use umount -l ? (lazy) ? |
| 18:40.07 | l0up | quanttrom: just says it cannot detect anything and asks if i want to continue |
| 18:40.17 | jacktheripper | Qantourisc, yes |
| 18:40.31 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: lazy unmounting might still leave the FS mounted |
| 18:40.53 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: it makes it inaccessable for new programs and request, not the ones that are open :/ |
| 18:41.02 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 18:41.36 | jacktheripper | Qantourisc, can I find what's opening the device ? I already tried fuser and lsof. |
| 18:41.55 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: lsof and fuser reveiled nothing in use ? |
| 18:42.12 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: also if ther eis anything mounted in /home or /opt it's an issue |
| 18:42.29 | jacktheripper | Qantourisc, lsof did reveal stuff before the lazy unmounting. fuser never showed me anything. |
| 18:42.31 | l0up | Qantourisc: maybe i should have the devlibs installed? but i cant install libogg-dev, says that libc6-dev is needed but not installable |
| 18:42.47 | Qantourisc | l0up: not sure |
| 18:42.53 | l0up | and libvorbis-dev says it needs libogg-dev |
| 18:43.13 | Qantourisc | l0up: but it can't detec alsa either ? |
| 18:43.16 | Qantourisc | or is used oss ? |
| 18:43.20 | l0up | nope |
| 18:43.29 | l0up | it says "Using UNIX configuration..." |
| 18:45.13 | Qantourisc | l0up: i'd first try something less complicated that python first |
| 18:45.19 | Qantourisc | l0up: try mpd :) |
| 18:45.51 | l0up | hmm |
| 18:46.42 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@143.55.1.92) |
| 18:46.47 | l0up | i need to play and possibly record sounds with my python/pyqt app |
| 18:47.29 | jacktheripper | Qantourisc, I tried killing the processes using the device. One of them was browserd (it looks important yes). Killing it just brought it back again. When I kept repeating `pkill`, the phone rebooted. Does that mean I can never unmount /home successfully ? |
| 18:48.17 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: if you need to do maintaince i recommend 2 possible ways |
| 18:48.18 | kerio | considering /home holds... half of the binaries? i'd say no |
| 18:48.31 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: method 1) Boot into a sort of resque mode |
| 18:48.45 | sivang | kerio: the dmse rebooted the device? |
| 18:48.48 | jacktheripper | thought about that, does the N900 even have one ? |
| 18:48.52 | dolp | what's the best way to make my widget to do something everytime SMS is sent? any suggestions what to look for? |
| 18:49.02 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: method 2) Connect to the computer as a block device, giving full acess to the memory by your computer (if your phone supports this) |
| 18:49.11 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: and then do the fs2chk from your computer |
| 18:49.20 | kerio | Qantourisc: huh? |
| 18:49.24 | sivang | dolp: there is an app tat responds to calls, you can use what's there to write it to you widget |
| 18:49.36 | kerio | Qantourisc: /home/ is never unmounted on the n900 |
| 18:49.37 | Qantourisc | kerio: hes trying to fs2sch some volumes |
| 18:49.39 | sivang | dolp: pycallblocker is the app'sname , available from extras-testing |
| 18:50.13 | dolp | sivang: thanks.. i'll take a look at it |
| 18:50.15 | Qantourisc | kerio: that's why your need some sort of resque mode, or attach it to your computer as a "usb-disk" (without booting the OS) if the device supports it |
| 18:50.15 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 18:50.28 | kerio | what device? |
| 18:50.29 | jacktheripper | Qantourisc, I'm actually trying to resize /home. I'm doing the whole e2fsck thing because I lazily unmounted the volume. (parted says it didn't unmount cleanly) |
| 18:50.33 | kerio | aren't we talking about the n900 |
| 18:50.44 | jacktheripper | yes n900 |
| 18:50.53 | kerio | yeah, ass rage only works for MyDocs |
| 18:50.59 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: if it's ext ... you might be able to do a online resize (if you want it bigger) |
| 18:51.47 | RST38h | yawns and wonders what to do tonight |
| 18:51.47 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: i read someone where you had to push a button while connected to the pc while booting so you could update/flash the device, the same method might be used for this but instead of updating messing with it |
| 18:52.24 | lcuk | jacktheripper, tsk tsk, you need to be aware which order you are unmounting things - /opt is a mountbind to /home/opt - so if you are trying to unmount home first won't it already be in use/ |
| 18:53.18 | kerio | umounting /opt/ will not go well imo |
| 18:53.58 | lcuk | nope, but he can always reflash |
| 18:54.30 | kerio | if that's an option he can use it right now |
| 18:54.31 | Qantourisc | source: "http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware" |
| 18:54.37 | *** join/#maemo Dini (~dino@host12-105-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:54.38 | Qantourisc | 1) Ensure the battery is fully charged. |
| 18:54.43 | kerio | changing the text file in the eMMC image to make /home/ bigger |
| 18:54.44 | Qantourisc | 2) Unplug the USB cable if present, and switch off the device. |
| 18:54.51 | Qantourisc | 3) N900: While holding the u key, connect the N900 to your computer via USB. Wait until you see a dim screen on your N900 with a Nokia logo in the middle of your screen with an USB icon in the top right corner. |
| 18:55.01 | Qantourisc | Note: If the USB logo does not appear, and the device turns off - ensure the battery is charged by connecting to the wall charger for an hour and try again. |
| 18:55.07 | Qantourisc | 4) You don't need to continue to hold any buttons once flashing starts. |
| 18:55.26 | Qantourisc | hmmm once the flashing starts ? |
| 18:55.36 | lcuk | Qantourisc, GTFO the wiki exists so that lot doesn't need to be pasted |
| 18:55.45 | *** join/#maemo The|Avatar (~quassel@i59F54011.versanet.de) |
| 18:55.49 | Qantourisc | lcuk: well it's not a exact copy |
| 18:55.53 | Qantourisc | i skipped a few lines |
| 18:55.58 | Qantourisc | because it's to update |
| 18:56.04 | Qantourisc | but if my huntch is right |
| 18:56.12 | Qantourisc | the above will give you access to the disk |
| 18:56.22 | Qantourisc | making whatever jacktheripper is trieing to do easy |
| 18:56.25 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 18:56.27 | jacktheripper | I hope so. Lemme try. |
| 18:56.29 | jacktheripper | and thanks |
| 18:56.38 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 18:56.44 | The|Avatar | Hi! |
| 18:56.54 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: ofcours it might not give you access to the disk but only some flasher thing :) you'll have to try and see |
| 18:57.03 | RST38h | wazd. |
| 18:57.05 | Qantourisc | jacktheripper: make sure the backup whaver you need back |
| 18:58.34 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~smooph@e180144018.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:59.14 | jacktheripper | Qantourisc, actually, I think so instructions are only used with flasher |
| 18:59.15 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80-186-247-173.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:59.20 | jacktheripper | s/so/those |
| 18:59.30 | Qantourisc | pitty :/ |
| 18:59.48 | Qantourisc | without some sort of rescue mode or direct disk access this might get tricky |
| 19:00.45 | The|Avatar | Is anyone here, who could give me some hints as to why my maemo-sdk installation refuses to start hildon? |
| 19:01.03 | *** part/#maemo ustreamer-87533 (~ustreamer@p1046-ipbf610osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 19:01.44 | lcuk | The|Avatar, you will have to talk more than that, first time installation? non standard host OS? never installed it? |
| 19:01.48 | *** part/#maemo juk (~juk@221.221.16.157) |
| 19:01.48 | l0up | Qantourisc: is it possible to play multiple sounds at the same time with mpd? |
| 19:01.56 | Qantourisc | no |
| 19:02.15 | Qantourisc | but it plays over alsa,oss and plays ogg,mp3,flac,wav,... |
| 19:02.19 | Qantourisc | so it should be a good test |
| 19:02.27 | *** join/#maemo Flanbix (~Flanbix@w114-210.fenner.hull.ac.uk) |
| 19:02.31 | Qantourisc | l0up: mpd is a media-library-player |
| 19:02.48 | l0up | yeah |
| 19:02.57 | Qantourisc | l0up: i only recommended it because it's a C program with minimal layers allowing you to hopefully find the issue |
| 19:03.07 | Qantourisc | it's also one of the smaller examples i could think of |
| 19:03.17 | l0up | ah, i see |
| 19:03.21 | The|Avatar | lcuk: of course. Second tima actually. Host OS is Kubuntu. Installation wnet without error so far. The toolchains work as well. Start of Xephyr works. ... |
| 19:04.02 | lcuk | jacktheripper, if you recall developers of old, they used punch card systems and pre-wrote (carefully) their software before running it. writing a script to do something at system start could be considered a similar task ;) also, there are ways to shut down most of the apps on the system without a reboot |
| 19:04.22 | The|Avatar | lcuk: but when i start af-sb-init.sh start, i get lots of error...mostly like "ailed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory" |
| 19:04.42 | Qantourisc | after a lot of reading i decided vs android or maemo |
| 19:05.39 | lcuk | The|Avatar, so the scratchbox install and all toolchains sdks and everything is on and you can build stuff, you just can't run the emulation thingy |
| 19:05.41 | jacktheripper | lcuk, including browserd ? :D do you have any idea what it does when the browser is not running (if it's even related to it) ? |
| 19:05.52 | The|Avatar | lcuk: right |
| 19:06.22 | lcuk | jacktheripper, at the very least browserd is waiting |
| 19:07.05 | lcuk | The|Avatar, I have never really run anything in the xephyr, but pastebin the errors it gives |
| 19:07.13 | lcuk | perhaps someone else who does will recognise it |
| 19:11.35 | Qantourisc | meego looks promossing |
| 19:11.35 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net) |
| 19:12.07 | The|Avatar | lcuk: http://pastebin.com/miQVBuYp |
| 19:12.19 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 19:12.46 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-15-178.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 19:12.53 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-120-15-178.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 19:15.14 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-45-187.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 19:15.20 | Qantourisc | did anyone notise a "closeing source" trend for maemo ? |
| 19:15.31 | Qantourisc | if not i'm certain of my choice for the future |
| 19:16.52 | Stskeeps | Qantourisc: what will happen with meego on nokia is probably that they'll stick their apps and differentation on top of it, all of it closed source, while contributing to the common platform |
| 19:17.31 | Stskeeps | Qantourisc: contributing to the common platform isn't a small thing though even though it sounds like it :) |
| 19:17.50 | GAN900 | Qantourisc, it's one of those sick "where're more open here, but less here" trends. |
| 19:18.51 | Qantourisc | hmmmm |
| 19:18.59 | Qantourisc | android i consider "closed" |
| 19:19.14 | Qantourisc | no X11, no default root support, etc |
| 19:19.23 | _llll_ | maemo is pretty much in no-one's future, right? |
| 19:19.28 | Stskeeps | _llll_: pretty much |
| 19:19.36 | Qantourisc | "in no-one's future" ? |
| 19:20.00 | _llll_ | if you wnt a long-term platform, it isnt maemo |
| 19:20.17 | Qantourisc | _llll_: so what you recommend ? :) |
| 19:20.25 | Stskeeps | 'd say meego |
| 19:20.26 | Qantourisc | custom cook ? :) |
| 19:20.38 | Stskeeps | simply because it has the most potential for actual open devices |
| 19:20.39 | GAN900 | Qantourisc, well, MeeGo is certainly better than that. |
| 19:21.00 | GAN900 | Qantourisc, the closed stupidity comes from process stuff, and vendor differentiation. |
| 19:21.00 | Qantourisc | well meego sort of is maemo successor as i read it ? |
| 19:21.07 | GAN900 | Sort of |
| 19:21.09 | Viiru | Getting open hardware would be best. |
| 19:21.10 | _llll_ | dont know, meego is interesting. i'm yet to be convinced until i see a device actually using it though |
| 19:21.11 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@62.219.120.20) |
| 19:21.11 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 19:21.28 | GAN900 | Though MeeGo seems to not want to be dirtied with too close of an association. |
| 19:21.28 | _llll_ | but my n900 does what i need it to do well enough |
| 19:21.29 | Qantourisc | yea, for me it's to early for a smart phone |
| 19:21.35 | Viiru | After that happens the rest doesn't matter. The community can sort out the software stack to run, as was done on the desktop. |
| 19:21.38 | Qantourisc | the market is still relatiliy crap |
| 19:21.46 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 19:21.51 | Stskeeps | Viiru: i'm pretty happy with the fact i can make phone calls and use a modern UI with redistributable 3d accelerator libs, battery management, wifi and bt firmware.. |
| 19:21.54 | _llll_ | im more interested in a better battery than a better os |
| 19:21.57 | Stskeeps | Viiru: that's pretty open |
| 19:22.19 | Qantourisc | _llll_: batteries are a hard thing to improve |
| 19:22.20 | lcuk | Stskeeps, redistributable? |
| 19:22.26 | Stskeeps | lcuk: yes, hell froze over |
| 19:22.27 | Qantourisc | _llll_: usually it's hardware and software draining it :) |
| 19:22.30 | Viiru | Stskeeps: "Redistributable" is enough for open? Actual openness doesn't matter? |
| 19:22.33 | lcuk | so does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen? |
| 19:22.45 | lcuk | or some such |
| 19:22.48 | Stskeeps | Viiru: considering the current market in ARM, it's good enough for me |
| 19:22.51 | lcuk | or is it just "distributable with meego" |
| 19:23.07 | Viiru | Stskeeps: Isn't my idea of open hardware. |
| 19:23.14 | Stskeeps | Viiru: alright then, but it's a big step |
| 19:23.41 | Stskeeps | lcuk: if we cut out 'luke-jr' of the equation, then yes - we can't do 'distributable with meego' cos repo.meego.com is mirrored on kernel.org |
| 19:23.56 | Viiru | Stskeeps: If you say so. I don't really care how the closed 3d-drivers and assorted firmware get on the device. |
| 19:24.00 | Stskeeps | lcuk: luke-jr would never take dirty blobs |
| 19:24.10 | lcuk | ok Stskeeps - but the point reamins |
| 19:24.17 | Qantourisc | 'lcuk: so does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen?' ? |
| 19:24.27 | lcuk | is it redistributable fully as in they can be used and included (for instance) on debian |
| 19:24.36 | lcuk | I know purity issues etc |
| 19:24.43 | Stskeeps | lcuk: yes, go read the licenses |
| 19:24.58 | Stskeeps | nokia bits are distributable for non-commercial purposes |
| 19:25.00 | Stskeeps | which makes sense |
| 19:25.09 | Stskeeps | sgx isn't limited like that |
| 19:25.12 | Stskeeps | just for TI hardware |
| 19:25.14 | lcuk | hmm |
| 19:25.25 | lcuk | "non-commercial" is still a limitation though |
| 19:25.27 | Stskeeps | it is |
| 19:25.43 | Stskeeps | but it saves worse conditions |
| 19:26.07 | lcuk | indeed :) its a good result from your time with the vendor social contract stuff |
| 19:26.24 | Viiru | I don't consider the difference between "I downloaded these binary blobs of the net" and "I ripped these binary blobs out of the software that came with the phone" to be in any way meaningful. |
| 19:26.27 | Stskeeps | i'm just happy to be making my own open images i can redistribute without getting sued |
| 19:26.37 | lcuk | ok, so thats sgx |
| 19:26.44 | GAN900 | Viiru, hehe. |
| 19:26.45 | lcuk | now if someone wants to post a meego image themselves |
| 19:26.52 | lcuk | is that feasible now too? |
| 19:27.03 | Stskeeps | lcuk: yes |
| 19:27.12 | lcuk | getting better :D |
| 19:27.13 | GAN900 | I think that depends a lot on who you're associated with (i.e., meego.com). |
| 19:27.27 | *** join/#maemo sivang (~sivan@unaffiliated/sivang) |
| 19:27.32 | lcuk | that shouldnt matter should it GAN900 |
| 19:27.33 | GAN900 | s/i.e./e.g. |
| 19:27.41 | lcuk | someone gets meego running on XYZ hardware |
| 19:27.44 | GAN900 | lcuk, @ Viiru |
| 19:27.46 | lcuk | and wants to post image to help others |
| 19:28.00 | sivang | http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ this is Fenec and not microb right? |
| 19:28.21 | Qantourisc | meego image for n900 is avaible |
| 19:28.34 | Stskeeps | yeah, on repo.meego.com |
| 19:29.43 | lcuk | will do more reading next week in work time, I am offski for now |
| 19:29.45 | sivang | also, my firmware bin file has SE in the file name, does that mean something? |
| 19:29.58 | sivang | argh, too late, I have to run. Be back later, sorry for asking and going away. |
| 19:30.07 | lcuk | gnite folks, enjoy your beers \o |
| 19:31.48 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p5B10678F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:34.13 | nox- | moin |
| 19:36.57 | _llll_ | Qantourisc: stabbing oneself in the eye is also available, is meego any less painful yet? |
| 19:37.14 | Qantourisc | _llll_: doubt it :D |
| 19:37.38 | _llll_ | hehe |
| 19:38.00 | Qantourisc | i just hope it will be ready by the time i need a smatphone :) |
| 19:38.10 | Qantourisc | and also hope there are cheaper smarthpones then :) |
| 19:38.15 | Qantourisc | right now 500⬠=) |
| 19:40.15 | _llll_ | my n900 was free with a contract |
| 19:40.38 | Qantourisc | oO ? |
| 19:40.41 | Qantourisc | what contract ? |
| 19:45.12 | Jartza | My N900 was also "free" |
| 19:45.52 | nox- | not that you dont pay the price back anyway with such contracts :) |
| 19:46.01 | nox- | just in monthly increments |
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| 19:49.55 | nox- | and i just looked, i payed ~ eur 400 |
| 19:49.56 | Qantourisc | hehe |
| 19:50.05 | Qantourisc | in belgium how expensive is gprs ? |
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| 20:16.04 | luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: the blobs are distributable without some EULA clickthrough or such nonsense? |
| 20:16.14 | Stskeeps | luke-jr_: yes |
| 20:16.28 | kthomas_vh | MohammadAG, still interested in the n810? |
| 20:16.59 | MohammadAG | kthomas_vh, a bit short on money, so I can't buy it atm :( |
| 20:17.04 | luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: where at? |
| 20:17.15 | luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: or would I need to put them somewhere? |
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| 20:17.27 | Stskeeps | luke-jr_: you okay with rpm format? |
| 20:17.33 | luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: rather not :P |
| 20:17.41 | kthomas_vh | alas, I'll list it on yad2, probably get more there :) |
| 20:17.44 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@MYCCCXCII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:17.46 | luke-jr_ | then I need to add DEPEND=rpm2targz |
| 20:17.58 | Stskeeps | luke-jr_: |
| 20:18.01 | Stskeeps | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/non-oss/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ |
| 20:18.16 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@84.249.126.153) |
| 20:19.04 | luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: no upstream w/ proper tgz or such? |
| 20:19.20 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 20:19.49 | Stskeeps | luke-jr_: well, TI's own dist or srpm contents |
| 20:19.58 | *** join/#maemo Qhubekela (~Qhubekela@41.211.32.81) |
| 20:20.02 | luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: where is TI's copy? |
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| 20:21.07 | luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx isn't open? so no using it without MeeGo builds of X.org? :/ |
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| 20:21.50 | luke-jr_ | hrm, come to think of it, that'll be a problem with the GLES libs too, won't it? ⦠|
| 20:22.09 | Stskeeps | luke-jr_: it's open |
| 20:22.30 | Stskeeps | luke-jr_: for technical reasons we have it in non-oss |
| 20:22.34 | luke-jr_ | i c |
| 20:23.09 | Stskeeps | srpm should be there, if not, it's a bug |
| 20:23.22 | luke-jr_ | it's not in that dir you linked, no |
| 20:23.34 | luke-jr_ | what about ABI issues on the other libs? |
| 20:23.53 | *** join/#maemo timeless_pidgin (~timeless@82.132.139.38) |
| 20:24.17 | Stskeeps | got a recent glibc? |
| 20:24.43 | luke-jr_ | dunno, that's the problem |
| 20:24.43 | timeless_pidgin | Hello world |
| 20:24.46 | luke-jr_ | Gentoo could be any glibc :P |
| 20:24.49 | luke-jr_ | or uclibc |
| 20:24.51 | Stskeeps | heh |
| 20:24.52 | luke-jr_ | or who knows |
| 20:25.02 | luke-jr_ | more liekly a problem is GCC version |
| 20:25.05 | Stskeeps | we're on 4.5 |
| 20:25.12 | luke-jr_ | 4.3 is not ABI compatible with 4.4, and neither of those with 4.5 |
| 20:25.15 | timeless_pidgin | is about to book an easyjet flight out of manchester |
| 20:25.17 | luke-jr_ | Gentoo stable is 4.4 |
| 20:25.29 | luke-jr_ | testing is probably 4.5 |
| 20:25.42 | timeless_pidgin | Gcc.. Linux.. Abi... Very funny |
| 20:25.53 | luke-jr_ | tbh, I don't know *any* solution to that short of distributing only code |
| 20:25.56 | timeless_pidgin | 4.5.0 is of course broken |
| 20:26.19 | luke-jr_ | even if someone built binaries for each combination, Gentoo has no real way to use them properly |
| 20:26.34 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 20:26.43 | timeless_pidgin | Distribute .dll's |
| 20:26.56 | timeless_pidgin | Let people use winelib to import your portable code |
| 20:27.05 | timeless_pidgin | Use any compiler you like. |
| 20:27.14 | timeless_pidgin | Let anyone use any compiler they like |
| 20:27.25 | timeless_pidgin | Clean. Simple. Hassle free. |
| 20:27.35 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@MYCCCXCII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:27.41 | *** join/#maemo absic (~qhubekela@41.211.32.82) |
| 20:27.43 | timeless_pidgin | Objections come from the NIH crowd |
| 20:27.49 | luke-jr_ | hmm |
| 20:27.54 | luke-jr_ | that's an idea, sortof |
| 20:28.08 | luke-jr_ | a .a with some wrappers that use asm to call the real funcs⦠|
| 20:28.57 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@77.127.123.33) |
| 20:29.01 | nox- | so dll.s made with diff mingw gcc versions are compatible? |
| 20:29.19 | luke-jr_ | didn't mean actual dlls :p |
| 20:29.27 | nox- | heh ok |
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| 20:33.28 | absic | hi. i'm new here. i'd like |
| 20:35.18 | absic | sorry |
| 20:35.19 | absic | i'd like to get some help. I'm interested in N900 |
| 20:36.09 | absic | but am concerned about Nokia's shift to MeeGo. Would you say I should wait for a MeeGo device? |
| 20:36.18 | timeless_pidgin | Nox: if you provide proper dll runtimes, and properly manage memory, yes |
| 20:36.35 | timeless_pidgin | Absic: i'm using my n900 right now, in Liverpool |
| 20:36.52 | timeless_pidgin | I couldn't use a MeeGo device today. It doesn't exist. |
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| 20:37.24 | timeless_pidgin | If you want to wait for an unspecified amount of time for a future product because you have no real pressing need |
| 20:37.30 | timeless_pidgin | Then waiting makes sense |
| 20:37.38 | timeless_pidgin | If you have a pressing need |
| 20:37.44 | timeless_pidgin | Then waiting doesn't make sense |
| 20:37.55 | luke-jr_ | absic: as timeless hints, it really depends on what you want |
| 20:37.56 | timeless_pidgin | You're probably somewhere in between |
| 20:38.17 | jacekowski | nox-: as long as their api is compatible |
| 20:38.23 | luke-jr_ | absic: care to mention why you might want a N900? |
| 20:38.49 | absic | timeless_pidgin: Thanks. I think I'll just go ahead and get it |
| 20:38.56 | nox- | jacekowski, nice |
| 20:38.59 | timeless_pidgin | Nox: basically dll's export functions according to a standardize mangling scheme |
| 20:39.10 | nox- | ah didnt know that :) |
| 20:39.24 | nox- | more a *ix person as you might have guessed... |
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| 20:39.29 | luke-jr_ | absic: often people who don't have a N900 have misconceptions on what it is capable of, FWIW |
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| 20:39.32 | jacekowski | well, same on *nix |
| 20:39.40 | timeless_pidgin | You can of course write a dll that *doesn't* work well |
| 20:39.42 | absic | I like that it is a phone and runs Linux. I am a newbie on the Linux side of things, and I intend to stay by Tux |
| 20:39.48 | luke-jr_ | timeless_pidgin: none of these ABI problems have anything to do with mangling |
| 20:39.52 | timeless_pidgin | But that's independent of everything else. |
| 20:39.52 | jacekowski | but on *nix people tend to break API a lot often |
| 20:40.06 | luke-jr_ | absic: N900 doesn't run Linux any more than Joe Android Phone |
| 20:40.12 | jacekowski | so if you compile old source with new gcc it will be compatible |
| 20:40.38 | SpeedEvil | IMO, it does. |
| 20:40.50 | timeless_pidgin | Nox: basically you'd want your .dll to link against the msvc6 crt, or to statically link a crt |
| 20:41.01 | SpeedEvil | You can get root from the default repo, and then install GCC just by adding another repo. |
| 20:41.21 | luke-jr_ | absic: at least not with Maemo; MeeGo might change that |
| 20:41.26 | absic | timeless_pidgin: could you please alaborate a bit on what you mean about "misconceptions" |
| 20:41.29 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: it's closer to gnu/linux than android |
| 20:41.36 | SpeedEvil | Way closer than android |
| 20:41.44 | luke-jr_ | absic: while Nokia isn't officially supporting MeeGo on N900, they *are* paying people to port it |
| 20:41.57 | luke-jr_ | jacekowski: X11 isn't GNU |
| 20:42.15 | jacekowski | yeah, but you have standard libc |
| 20:42.18 | jacekowski | gnu libc |
| 20:42.20 | timeless_pidgin | If it statically links against a crt, then it doesn't have problems (in general, minus ensuring you do memory management correctly) |
| 20:42.22 | jacekowski | with some gnu tools |
| 20:42.22 | luke-jr_ | X11 is basically the only notable difference between Android and Maemo |
| 20:42.26 | jacekowski | and gnu stuff |
| 20:42.29 | luke-jr_ | jacekowski: Android doesn't use glibc? |
| 20:42.29 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: and libc |
| 20:42.32 | jacekowski | nope |
| 20:42.40 | jacekowski | no glibc on android |
| 20:42.43 | luke-jr_ | o |
| 20:42.45 | jacekowski | no libc at all |
| 20:42.48 | luke-jr_ | wtf? |
| 20:42.57 | jacekowski | they use their own incompatible implementation |
| 20:43.00 | luke-jr_ | gotta have *some* libc |
| 20:43.02 | jacekowski | called bionic |
| 20:43.06 | luke-jr_ | busybox requires a libc |
| 20:43.14 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.146.42.19) |
| 20:43.53 | luke-jr_ | absic: lots of people seem to think N900/Maemo is open source. in reality, it's like Mac OS X |
| 20:44.10 | jacekowski | it's not as bad |
| 20:44.11 | b-man` | luke-jr: android doesn't use busybox by default |
| 20:44.12 | luke-jr_ | absic: less than half of Maemo is open source, mainly just the parts required to be open source legally |
| 20:44.21 | luke-jr_ | b-man`: what's teh CLI then? |
| 20:44.28 | b-man` | luke-jr: android it uses it's own called "toolbox' :P |
| 20:44.33 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: there isn't any |
| 20:44.38 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: not by defaul |
| 20:44.38 | b-man` | built on BSD stuff |
| 20:44.50 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: and stuff that runs on that phone is ported to bionic |
| 20:44.58 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: or running on dalvik |
| 20:45.22 | absic | luke-jr: this is interesting information indeed |
| 20:45.38 | jacekowski | luke-jr_: dsme is open source |
| 20:45.57 | jacekowski | modest is open source |
| 20:46.01 | jacekowski | parts of hildon |
| 20:46.10 | jacekowski | hmm, what else |
| 20:48.35 | absic | too bad Swaziland gets devices like these last :( |
| 20:48.58 | pupnik | someone has to be last |
| 20:50.51 | timeless_pidgin | Fwiw, a lot of the stuff that isn't open source isn't worth opening. |
| 20:51.01 | luke-jr_ | jacekowski: DSME is only open source after Nokia stripped it of any actual functionality |
| 20:51.05 | timeless_pidgin | The calculator for instance is closed source iir |
| 20:51.21 | timeless_pidgin | But you really don't want to see it |
| 20:51.25 | luke-jr_ | lol |
| 20:51.35 | timeless_pidgin | Anyone can make a better one |
| 20:52.11 | timeless_pidgin | And starting from the maemo one would be like starting 500m behind the starting line for a 100m race |
| 20:52.36 | timeless_pidgin | Possibly drunk, and likely dizzy |
| 20:53.33 | johnx | in my experience, the biggest problem was getting it to other devices with a small team |
| 20:54.24 | johnx | it doesn't matter that the calculator sucks, but not having one is lame, and re-coding it from scratch is a waste of time when the team is only about 3 people |
| 20:54.54 | Stskeeps | calculator engine is open source |
| 20:54.55 | timeless_pidgin | In our case, it'd have been better to find an html one and use that |
| 20:55.33 | johnx | both valid points, but I was using it as a general example ;) |
| 20:55.45 | timeless_pidgin | Cost: 1 man, 1 week to find it. 1 man, 2 weeks to make it internationalized |
| 20:55.49 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@MYCCCXCII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:56.38 | timeless_pidgin | Translating it is handled by another team |
| 20:57.00 | *** join/#maemo valgrind (~valgrind@56344f0a.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 20:57.07 | valgrind | hi there... |
| 20:57.19 | valgrind | can i ask a question about the 770 here ?? |
| 20:57.56 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 20:58.15 | timeless_pidgin | Johnx: the point is that we sent some team probably of 3 people to make the theming disaster of a calculator. And managed to introduce some calculator bugs |
| 20:58.19 | SpeedEvil | Most of us are here for hte n900 though - I don't know how many have a clue |
| 20:58.21 | timeless_pidgin | And botch the ui |
| 20:58.25 | valgrind | trying to connect a usb keyboard. tried 2008HE. using xterm to try to switch to host mode. no luck. |
| 20:58.40 | valgrind | ooh ?? right. |
| 20:58.45 | valgrind | well.. downgraded now. |
| 20:58.58 | valgrind | and the n900 ?? no host mode.. ?? right ?? |
| 20:59.05 | johnx | timeless_pidgin, I actually liked the UI ... :P |
| 20:59.58 | pupnik | valgrind: thinkoutside stowaway works pretty well here on 770. |
| 21:00.25 | timeless_pidgin | So, just as you wanted someone to give you an already-working app, i wanted someone to get us an already-working app. |
| 21:00.28 | valgrind | @pupnic I see.. and thats a bluetooth solution ?? |
| 21:00.54 | valgrind | @pupnik you still use the 770 ?? |
| 21:02.18 | valgrind | @pupnik I came pretty far with getting everything up and running. but the usb hostmode is a struggle. in the hacker edition it seems i run into a hardlink that i cant access even though im root. |
| 21:02.54 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago (~GvntbGvnt@201-95-63-3.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:02.55 | valgrind | with my knowledge of unix, i find it confusing that root has less than full access. hmm... |
| 21:03.04 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 21:04.09 | TiagoTiago | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=831852 pretty please with sugar on top |
| 21:04.12 | crashanddie | valgrind:, why? |
| 21:04.12 | TiagoTiago | ? |
| 21:05.07 | pupnik | valgrind: i haven't done the hostmode myself, so i just wish you good luck. |
| 21:05.39 | crashanddie | valgrind: MohammadAG made quite a lot of progress with hostmode |
| 21:05.45 | crashanddie | MohammadAG: what's the status update on that, btw? |
| 21:06.15 | MohammadAG | the patches are sarahn's, I compiled them and released the binaries, as well as the UI to start hostmode, however, it's still in prealpha |
| 21:06.33 | valgrind | aah... ?? great :) |
| 21:07.03 | MohammadAG | Huge thanks to DocScrutinizer, sarahn, and the devs involved, I can't take credit for anything except the UI |
| 21:07.20 | MohammadAG | also, thanks to my school for having boring lessons, I couldn't have reproduced it without em |
| 21:07.20 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.146.42.19) |
| 21:07.22 | valgrind | @MohammadAG For the 2007 software or the 2008HE ?? |
| 21:07.38 | MohammadAG | hmm? this is about the N900 right? |
| 21:07.46 | *** part/#maemo absic (~qhubekela@41.211.32.82) |
| 21:07.54 | valgrind | sorry... friend of mine gave me the 770. Its the old 770. |
| 21:08.11 | valgrind | apparently not the hottest thing at the bar right now :D |
| 21:08.38 | pupnik | i still like the 770 a lot |
| 21:08.39 | crashanddie | "The old 770"? |
| 21:08.49 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 21:08.51 | valgrind | haha.. sorry... |
| 21:08.54 | pupnik | it's just that websites suck |
| 21:08.59 | TiagoTiago | is there a new one? |
| 21:09.15 | crashanddie | TiagoTiago: the... n800 770, and the n810 770... |
| 21:09.16 | valgrind | im not sure.. give a paintjob perhaps ?? |
| 21:09.59 | valgrind | so the n900 is the hot topic. |
| 21:10.01 | TiagoTiago | oh? really? i thought it was just N800, N770 being the previous model |
| 21:10.17 | valgrind | 770,800,810 |
| 21:10.29 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-094-216-250-203.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:10.30 | valgrind | those are the only predecessors i guess. |
| 21:10.38 | TiagoTiago | so there isn't a new 770, no need to say "the old 770" |
| 21:10.47 | crashanddie | TiagoTiago: it was a joke |
| 21:10.59 | TiagoTiago | oh, sorry, i don't get it |
| 21:11.03 | crashanddie | no problem |
| 21:11.08 | DocScrutinizer | valgrind: usually irc clients won't highlight on @<nickname>, please use <nickname>: or <nickname>, instead |
| 21:11.16 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 21:11.26 | MohammadAG | N770 doesn't exist |
| 21:11.33 | MohammadAG | it's 770, without the N :P |
| 21:11.41 | valgrind | haha.. sorry.. my mistake. like saying "no.. thats my old wife", when you are still with her :D |
| 21:11.41 | TiagoTiago | if you must use the @, place a space between it and the nick |
| 21:11.47 | *** join/#maemo sar3th|away (sar3th@unaffiliated/sar3th) |
| 21:11.54 | TiagoTiago | hm |
| 21:12.28 | TiagoTiago | though on IRC @nickname usually means the nick in question has operator powers or somthing |
| 21:12.36 | valgrind | ooh.. sorry. been awhile since I used IRC. |
| 21:12.42 | TiagoTiago | it's alright |
| 21:12.59 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 21:13.05 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~smooph@e180138144.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:13.22 | DocScrutinizer | valgrind: don't worry, no damage done |
| 21:13.26 | TiagoTiago | usually it doesn't come up on chat anyway, just on the list of people currently int he channel, so the meaning doesn't get confused akk that easilly |
| 21:13.33 | valgrind | still a great UI though. black, green and blue text. IRC is eyecandy for every penny |
| 21:13.34 | TiagoTiago | all* |
| 21:13.40 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 21:13.46 | TiagoTiago | depend on what client you're using |
| 21:14.05 | valgrind | haha... i want the one with animated GIFs then |
| 21:14.13 | TiagoTiago | right now i'm getting grayish-white text on black background |
| 21:14.23 | valgrind | the 89 feel :) |
| 21:14.35 | *** join/#maemo unluckier (~wicked@www.wissenschon.de) |
| 21:14.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:14.47 | valgrind | hmm.. make that 95 |
| 21:14.51 | unluckier | :-o so many people.. hello |
| 21:15.20 | TiagoTiago | I can write like on burned green phosphor if i want though :P |
| 21:15.26 | valgrind | unluckier ?? can i please borrow that nick for my dating profile |
| 21:15.35 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 21:15.41 | *** join/#maemo citygent (citygent@68.67.76.100) |
| 21:15.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:15.49 | unluckier | valgrind: =) |
| 21:16.10 | unluckier | valgrind: sure, no problem. just don't date where nickserv rules |
| 21:16.15 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 21:16.24 | TiagoTiago | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:16.35 | valgrind | ooh.. i would love to see the yellow one |
| 21:16.50 | TiagoTiago | your client doesn't do collors? |
| 21:16.54 | valgrind | its saturday afterall :) |
| 21:17.19 | valgrind | trying Mirc for the first time. guess chatzilla is long gone or out of fashion |
| 21:17.27 | TiagoTiago | i'm on it |
| 21:17.46 | valgrind | hmmm... on Chrome anyway. Love the way It refuses to crash. |
| 21:17.49 | TiagoTiago | have yuo checked X-chat btw? |
| 21:17.50 | unluckier | there's something that's been annoying me for a while now.. is there no less for maemo5? |
| 21:17.59 | valgrind | aah..x-chat. 32bit client. |
| 21:18.01 | valgrind | yes. |
| 21:18.11 | TiagoTiago | unluckier: apt-get install less |
| 21:18.44 | lindi- | valgrind: chromium crashes on my arm systems quite often, need to make some history files read-only to cope with it |
| 21:18.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:19.10 | unluckier | TiagoTiago: *blush* damn, so easy. i was sure i tried that already... well, thanks |
| 21:19.16 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:19.18 | TiagoTiago | yw |
| 21:19.43 | kerio | mirc is a piece of shit |
| 21:19.47 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 21:19.49 | valgrind | lindi: i have had the problem with laptop chrashes. chrome complains about damaged settings file |
| 21:20.05 | valgrind | here we go... Geekwar |
| 21:20.35 | unluckier | irssi ftw..? =) |
| 21:20.42 | *** join/#maemo andre___ (~andre@85.183.48.167) |
| 21:21.09 | valgrind | irssi ? |
| 21:21.22 | unluckier | _the_ irc client. |
| 21:21.29 | unluckier | totally. |
| 21:21.34 | valgrind | ooh... i see. |
| 21:22.16 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:22.40 | valgrind | well... irc is good. the gf wont get jaleous because if there are any chicks on irc, they know how to chown |
| 21:22.56 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@82-168-81-130.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 21:23.23 | TiagoTiago | irssi is that console based IRC client, right? |
| 21:24.17 | TiagoTiago | ~irssi |
| 21:24.17 | infobot | methinks irssi is a modular IRC client for UNIX. See http://irssi.org/, or the door to the 1337 |
| 21:24.28 | unluckier | TiagoTiago: it is. |
| 21:24.39 | unluckier | hehe, door to the 1337.. |
| 21:25.31 | unluckier | does anyone here use khweeteur? does its bit.ly support actually do anything? |
| 21:26.49 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 21:28.51 | valgrind | haha.. Irssi. that is so funky |
| 21:29.09 | valgrind | even my Nvidia 8600m GT can run It |
| 21:29.48 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (~Xisdibik@c-67-164-41-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:30.18 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@85.183.48.167) |
| 21:31.06 | *** part/#maemo w00t_ (~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t) |
| 21:31.31 | valgrind | hmm... so turning on hostmode on a 770. kinda of hopeless considering the fact that the 770 cant deliver power to the keyboard anyway. |
| 21:31.46 | crashanddie | erhm... |
| 21:31.50 | crashanddie | hostmode on 770 works fine |
| 21:31.56 | TiagoTiago | physicly hack it to make it deliver |
| 21:32.08 | valgrind | it does ?? hmm.. okay. |
| 21:32.16 | crashanddie | johnx: ping |
| 21:32.17 | valgrind | with the echo host command ?? |
| 21:32.28 | johnx | crashanddie, pong |
| 21:32.39 | crashanddie | johnx: valgrind needs some help with the 770 host mode |
| 21:32.51 | johnx | crashanddie, I saw, but I never owned a 770 |
| 21:32.56 | crashanddie | eh? |
| 21:33.02 | crashanddie | Oh, you did it with the n800 |
| 21:33.04 | crashanddie | crap |
| 21:33.16 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:33.20 | johnx | valgrind, the thing to google for might be "power injector 770" |
| 21:33.21 | pupnik | good old days.. |
| 21:33.35 | crashanddie | valgrind: my bad, sorry for the confusion |
| 21:33.43 | valgrind | johnx: i installed the 2008HE version, but folderstructure seem different, and there is a hardlink i cant access as root, so i gave up and downgraded to to 2007 os |
| 21:33.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:34.00 | *** join/#maemo beford (~Fernando@186.112.184.130) |
| 21:34.01 | crashanddie | valgrind: a hardlink you can't access as root? |
| 21:34.05 | crashanddie | valgrind: where does it point to |
| 21:34.06 | crashanddie | ? |
| 21:34.06 | *** join/#maemo beford (~Fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 21:34.08 | johnx | valgrind, in either case, you need an external circuit to provide power to the keyboard, I think |
| 21:34.21 | valgrind | hmm.. the otg folder i suppose. |
| 21:34.43 | valgrind | the guide on Maemo website seems incorrect when on the hacker edition. |
| 21:34.45 | crashanddie | wouldn't an externally-powered usb hub work? |
| 21:35.16 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:35.17 | valgrind | i suppose the usb hub i have works. connected it to a battery delivering 5 volts. |
| 21:35.43 | valgrind | so keyboard should be alive. but hostmode is teasing. |
| 21:35.58 | dolp | is there like a way for my widget to monitor sent SMS.. i mean like everytime i send sms my widget should update something |
| 21:35.59 | johnx | don't you need to provide power back to the 770 to actually trigger the chip to go into hostmode? |
| 21:36.01 | johnx | or did that change? |
| 21:36.05 | valgrind | so im confused what linus is actually running on the 770 and the 800 |
| 21:36.20 | crashanddie | dolp: poll the el.db sqlite database |
| 21:36.23 | johnx | the N800 is totally different hardware though... |
| 21:36.23 | valgrind | ooh... right.. i read about a otg dongle |
| 21:36.52 | valgrind | ooh.. i see. so running the 770 as an 800 will never really be a success. |
| 21:37.10 | johnx | yeah, the N800 *does* provide power on it's USB port |
| 21:37.15 | valgrind | explains why pidgin and skype were crashing |
| 21:37.23 | valgrind | ooh.. |
| 21:37.25 | valgrind | damn |
| 21:37.38 | johnx | well, the CPU is *similar*, but it's a different "motherboard" if you want to think about it that way |
| 21:37.40 | valgrind | so getting an n800 would make the whole situation easier. |
| 21:37.55 | johnx | yeah, but the d-pad on the n800 is worse |
| 21:38.07 | johnx | and no cover |
| 21:38.14 | johnx | but the N800 has a stand which is very cool |
| 21:38.16 | valgrind | hmm.. the d-pad ?? |
| 21:38.34 | johnx | the direction pad, the arrow keys :) |
| 21:38.40 | valgrind | aah... i see. and still a debian sarge cut down to nothing |
| 21:38.57 | johnx | yeah |
| 21:39.05 | *** join/#maemo kuuntelija (~Jukka@MYCCCXCII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:39.11 | johnx | also, it doesn't see a huge amount of active development for it |
| 21:39.12 | valgrind | aah.. okay.. dont use them. i just want to use the 770 for writing at my coffeebar. thought it would be cool. |
| 21:39.43 | valgrind | haha... what ?? how can an iPad be cooler than my 770 ?? tsk... |
| 21:40.08 | TiagoTiago | considering all the effort done on the N900 and the technology used, the could totally have added a 5way mouse controller thingy (either an optical trackball, or somthing like a little glass nub extending the touch sensitivity o fthe screen) |
| 21:40.49 | TiagoTiago | it's coller 'cause it isn't running anything, without eating energy flipping lots of bits little heat is generated :P |
| 21:40.50 | valgrind | so the n900 is cool ? but how does that allow an external keyboard ?? |
| 21:41.33 | valgrind | haha.. true.. that is what cool actually means. |
| 21:41.40 | TiagoTiago | :P |
| 21:41.50 | johnx | to run a keyboard off the N800, you need: USB female host-A to USB male mini-B |
| 21:42.02 | johnx | and a keyboard that takes less than 100mA |
| 21:42.07 | johnx | or a bluetooth keyboard |
| 21:42.31 | valgrind | wow.. okay. that means the 770 is a dissater with keyboards unless using bluetooth. |
| 21:42.33 | MohammadAG | ran a 200mA flash on the N900 |
| 21:42.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:42.54 | MohammadAG | even though the limit is 100, we just commented it out of the kernel |
| 21:43.03 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@78.146.42.19) |
| 21:43.11 | johnx | MohammadAG, I think there's a way to tell the N800 to disable power restrictions which lets you get up to 200mA |
| 21:43.20 | johnx | but for devices 100mA or under it "just works" (tm) |
| 21:43.25 | TiagoTiago | would it b e possible to add a MITM thingy with double-As that sends power to the plugged device? |
| 21:44.31 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@77.127.123.33) |
| 21:44.56 | johnx | TiagoTiago, sure, but the keyboard would still say to the N800 over usb "I need 250mA" and the N800 would refuse |
| 21:45.06 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:45.11 | johnx | so, what you want is a usb hub with batteries in it |
| 21:45.15 | johnx | cyberpower makes one |
| 21:45.19 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@143.55.1.92) |
| 21:45.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:45.47 | TiagoTiago | yeah, i was thinking of somthing like that, though not necessarilly made on a factory |
| 21:45.55 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 21:46.15 | *** join/#maemo RangerBob (~Brian@pool-72-73-26-184.clppva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:46.24 | TiagoTiago | would the hub let two devices talk with eachother isntead of going down towards the host wire? |
| 21:46.33 | johnx | nope |
| 21:46.37 | johnx | that's not the way USB works |
| 21:46.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:47.06 | johnx | USB is only host<->device, not device<->device or host<->host |
| 21:47.14 | TiagoTiago | in my head it was all a single piece of metal that shared the pulses from all devices |
| 21:47.34 | TiagoTiago | and the devices just waited for their turn before sending their own pulses |
| 21:47.36 | *** join/#maemo visz (vis@irkki.fi) |
| 21:47.44 | BCMM | it's a shame 1394 isn't more widespread... |
| 21:48.21 | TiagoTiago | isn't that how ethernet over powerline works? |
| 21:50.40 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@c-68-39-142-229.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:50.40 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 21:50.43 | TiagoTiago | that's probably a TEMPEST nightmare though |
| 21:52.01 | johnx | TiagoTiago, yeah, that's how an ethernet *hub* works |
| 21:52.45 | TiagoTiago | which is faster, USb or ethernet? |
| 21:52.47 | BCMM | johnx: or thinnet |
| 21:52.57 | jacktheripper | I just found an easy way to repartition the n900. It's using the meego rescue initrd, do I post it to wiki ? |
| 21:53.16 | nox- | TiagoTiago, gigE is faster than usb |
| 21:53.24 | BCMM | that was pretty much "every device is connected to a pair of conductors and waits to talk" |
| 21:53.54 | nox- | TiagoTiago, (and also more reliable in my experience...) |
| 21:53.56 | unluckier | i've never seen usb go faster than good ol fast ethernet in real lif conditions.. |
| 21:54.01 | johnx | BCMM, or wifi ;) or the original "ethernet" :D |
| 21:54.14 | TiagoTiago | why USB is seen as better than ethernet? |
| 21:54.15 | luke-jr_ | TiagoTiago: wtf? |
| 21:54.23 | BCMM | original ethernet before my time, but my parents used to have thinnet |
| 21:54.26 | luke-jr_ | USB is inherently bad design |
| 21:54.27 | nox- | oh unluckier i have seen some 20 MB/sec before... |
| 21:54.33 | luke-jr_ | compared to almost anything |
| 21:54.41 | SpeedEvil | I have my / on USB. |
| 21:54.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 21:54.47 | SpeedEvil | It goes at 30MB/s |
| 21:54.53 | nox- | luke-jr_, usb is desingned to be as cheap as possible i think |
| 21:54.55 | SpeedEvil | it's not really a limitation for me. |
| 21:54.55 | luke-jr_ | SpeedEvil: at the expense of CPU time |
| 21:55.03 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: to a small degree. |
| 21:55.08 | luke-jr_ | large* |
| 21:55.14 | johnx | better than root on NFS :P |
| 21:55.30 | luke-jr_ | johnx: invalid comparison |
| 21:55.38 | luke-jr_ | ATA over Ethernet is valid |
| 21:55.38 | BCMM | the cpu time is the big deal here - USB (rather than firewire) is basically a false economy, unless you use it infrequently |
| 21:55.56 | luke-jr_ | don't forget eSATA ;) |
| 21:55.57 | nox- | *nod* |
| 21:56.04 | unluckier | ATA over ethernet.. |
| 21:56.19 | unluckier | layer violation much? |
| 21:56.23 | BCMM | in firewire, the hardware does a lof ot suff for itself, whereas in USB it's practically all done by the CPU |
| 21:56.28 | unluckier | but whatever work i guess. |
| 21:56.35 | BCMM | which makes the hardware cheaper until you realise you need a faster CPU |
| 21:56.48 | TiagoTiago | i've seen people using cat5 cables as USB extensions |
| 21:56.49 | luke-jr_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_over_Ethernet |
| 21:56.50 | *** join/#maemo yofel_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/yofel) |
| 21:56.57 | luke-jr_ | unluckier: I don't see how it's a layer violation |
| 21:57.12 | nox- | unluckier, there also is iscsi... |
| 21:57.13 | TiagoTiago | from what've read it seems to work much better than official USB cables, and they are much cheaper for the meter |
| 21:57.13 | BCMM | it's as if everybody is using winmodems now |
| 21:57.24 | nox- | well said BCMM |
| 21:57.52 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: USB uses basically twicer that of sata. |
| 21:58.01 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: based on idle time and dd |
| 21:58.06 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:58.11 | unluckier | okay, it really is on the ethernet layer. so it isn't a layer violation, sry |
| 21:58.30 | unluckier | still feels weird |
| 21:58.36 | luke-jr_ | lol |
| 21:59.07 | TiagoTiago | why cable TV doesn't use plugs like thinnet? |
| 21:59.08 | dRbiG | yay, did my first .deb package and got myself screen working :) |
| 21:59.27 | TiagoTiago | yay! |
| 22:00.05 | BCMM | USB is more popular than firewire primarily because Intel pushed it, which is unsurprising, since it encourages CPU upgrades |
| 22:00.55 | BCMM | dRbiG: GNU screen? |
| 22:01.32 | unluckier | screen? i want that too |
| 22:02.07 | BCMM | (the software that beat Windows' record for "most ambigious name") |
| 22:02.09 | GAN900 | BCMM, well, that and it's cheaper since the controllers are much simpler. |
| 22:02.23 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 22:02.30 | GAN900 | Since it doesn't do much. |
| 22:02.44 | ShadowJK | the people who write firewire drivers say firewire is a nightmare |
| 22:02.48 | BCMM | GAN900: as i said, so are softmodems, but that doesn't mean people like them |
| 22:02.53 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host156-203-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:02.54 | unluckier | BCMM: dunno, there's also the added benefit of an abundance of really cheap devices. |
| 22:03.12 | BCMM | hmmm |
| 22:03.30 | ShadowJK | that helps any technology take off, abundance of cheap stuff :) |
| 22:03.31 | BCMM | i actually don't know how much difference it makes to the price of, say, a mass-storage device |
| 22:03.48 | dRbiG | BCMM: yes |
| 22:03.50 | *** join/#maemo S_WO (~swo@p5DF3AF4D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:03.57 | TiagoTiago | what would happen if i wired a LED directly to the USB port of the N900? |
| 22:03.59 | dRbiG | screen 4.0.3 |
| 22:04.09 | ShadowJK | TiagoTiago, depends on the led |
| 22:04.15 | BCMM | (since, unlike a PC, then don't already have a processor sitting around waiting to handle low-level protocol crap) |
| 22:04.30 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: and how you wire it :) |
| 22:04.40 | TiagoTiago | a 5mil hiugh intensity |
| 22:04.54 | ShadowJK | TiagoTiago, a Cree XRE/XPG or SSC P4 will probably blink briefly before N900 voltage booster shuts down due to overload |
| 22:04.54 | TiagoTiago | lets say i wire it in in the way the electricity flows |
| 22:05.00 | dRbiG | why would you want to wire a led to usb port? ;) |
| 22:05.06 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: In principle, you coild - if you added a resisrtor - trurn it on and off using the vboost option. |
| 22:05.12 | TiagoTiago | blinkenlights :P |
| 22:05.13 | ShadowJK | a 5millimeter one is probably going to shine angry blue for a few seconds before popping, or N900 shutting off voltage |
| 22:05.19 | BCMM | dRbiG: awesome, are you putting it into a repo? i want screen |
| 22:05.53 | TiagoTiago | the N900 needs moar blinkenlights |
| 22:05.58 | BCMM | (see? like "windows", it makes me sound ungrammatical and cavemanish: "i want screen") |
| 22:06.02 | dRbiG | BCMM: hmm, i'm not yet at the level of investigating methods of contributing stuff; i'm at the level of making stuff i need work |
| 22:06.09 | BCMM | fair enough |
| 22:06.34 | dRbiG | but i can put it on my server and give you a link to the plain .deb if you like |
| 22:06.47 | dRbiG | but no warranties, it start and seems to work :) |
| 22:06.57 | TiagoTiago | what does it do? |
| 22:07.12 | unluckier | dRbiG: does it have nethack mode? :) |
| 22:07.18 | dRbiG | TiagoTiago: enables you to have multiple terminal sessions |
| 22:07.34 | dRbiG | unluckier: it has all that a plain vanilla screen 4.0.3 has - no idea about nethack :) |
| 22:07.41 | TiagoTiago | without using the factory terminal emulator? |
| 22:07.42 | dRbiG | if it all works is another thing |
| 22:07.51 | dRbiG | TiagoTiago: in text mode :) |
| 22:07.58 | TiagoTiago | i see |
| 22:08.03 | TiagoTiago | handy |
| 22:08.04 | dRbiG | i wanted tmux |
| 22:08.10 | dRbiG | but i have some problems with glib |
| 22:08.15 | dRbiG | as usual, linux crap ;) |
| 22:08.18 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: basically, you run screen at the console or in xterm or something, and it gives you multiple virtual terminals you can use |
| 22:08.44 | TiagoTiago | oh, it's not actually multiple terminals, it's multiple terminals inside of a single terminal? |
| 22:08.52 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: so that you can use "ctrl-a space" a bit like alt-tab |
| 22:08.55 | dRbiG | for any hacking/developement i need to have more than one terminal session and i don't like having like 8x putty |
| 22:08.59 | dRbiG | screen is better way |
| 22:09.02 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: it's sorta like a window manager, for text mode |
| 22:09.20 | dRbiG | BCMM: tmux is more of a wm in ncurses |
| 22:09.37 | dRbiG | but as i said, to get tmux some work is actually needed |
| 22:09.45 | dRbiG | to be done on it |
| 22:09.54 | TiagoTiago | but it runs inside a terminal, like i could hit control-shift-x type screen, and in that single window there would be multiple terminals acessible? |
| 22:10.00 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: for example, you have vim open, you want to go and ls some dir somewhere, so you use the keyboard shortcut for a new "window", causing vim to vanish and a shell to appear |
| 22:10.14 | BCMM | then you can use another key combo to switch between that shell and your vim session |
| 22:10.31 | TiagoTiago | text based multitasking |
| 22:10.33 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: exactly |
| 22:10.34 | *** join/#maemo smooph1 (~smooph@e180143170.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:10.47 | *** join/#maemo sar3th|away (sar3th@unaffiliated/sar3th) |
| 22:11.09 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: you can also close xterm, open a new xterm, and reconnect to your screen session with your stuff still running |
| 22:11.16 | BCMM | it is GREAT for ssh over an unreliable connection |
| 22:11.23 | TiagoTiago | that is awesmoe |
| 22:11.32 | dRbiG | it is a must have anywhere |
| 22:11.51 | dRbiG | my tmux sessions usually have uptime close to the server uptime :) |
| 22:11.59 | TiagoTiago | it kidna creates a server terminal output that you can connect to with multiple clients, or disconnect and keep it running |
| 22:12.01 | TiagoTiago | ? |
| 22:12.14 | dRbiG | TiagoTiago: multiple clients at once only in tmux :) |
| 22:12.19 | dRbiG | screen is older |
| 22:12.20 | TiagoTiago | i see |
| 22:12.29 | dRbiG | and simpler |
| 22:12.36 | dRbiG | but it does the job well too |
| 22:13.00 | dRbiG | i'm just not sure if screen handles unicode |
| 22:13.05 | lindi- | dRbiG: screen -x allows multiple clients? |
| 22:13.16 | *** join/#maemo Guest38044 (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 22:13.28 | johnx | dRbiG, pretty sure it does |
| 22:13.36 | dRbiG | lindi-: maybe it does - i migareted from it to tmux about 1.5 year ago |
| 22:13.43 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:14.19 | unluckier | oh, and also, you can let your irc session running on some computer whereever and achieve spectacular idle times! |
| 22:14.33 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d51528382.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:14.38 | johnx | it does allow multiple clients of course |
| 22:14.41 | DocScrutinizer | pokes DocScrutinizer51 |
| 22:14.44 | johnx | and searching in the scrollback |
| 22:15.01 | DocScrutinizer | no screen & irssi session though :-P |
| 22:15.06 | dRbiG | johnx: two or more clients connected to the same session? |
| 22:15.18 | *** join/#maemo BCMM_ (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 22:15.32 | BCMM_ | curses his wireless |
| 22:15.44 | johnx | dRbiG, of course. with different window sizes, updated in real time |
| 22:15.55 | johnx | *lives* in screen all day |
| 22:15.56 | dRbiG | johnx: right. so same as tmux |
| 22:15.59 | unluckier | dRbiG: BCMM really need his screen |
| 22:16.07 | BCMM | hah |
| 22:16.12 | dRbiG | johnx: oh, and unicode support? |
| 22:16.23 | BCMM | unluckier: i don't have anywhere with a better connection to run an irc client on |
| 22:16.27 | johnx | dRbiG, again, I'm almost positive it does. but I could check |
| 22:16.33 | unluckier | BCMM: oh. |
| 22:16.47 | BCMM | and i think screen can show more than one window at once, but i don't know how |
| 22:16.55 | dRbiG | johnx: if it does then i have no real need to put any effort into getting tmux on n900 |
| 22:17.05 | BCMM | it's kinda like vim, in that it does a whole lot of cool thing, and i know how some of them work |
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| 22:17.42 | dRbiG | johnx: hmm, utf8 doesn't seem to be available under screen on n900 - but the problem can be somewhere else, it's n900 :) |
| 22:17.57 | johnx | dRbiG, nevermind. guess it doesn't (at least in my config) |
| 22:18.07 | BCMM | "tmux is intended to be a modern, BSD-licensed alternative to programs such as GNU screen." (from the tmux website) - seems like they're pretty much equivalent |
| 22:18.27 | dRbiG | afir lack of unicode support was the main reason why i switched |
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| 22:19.00 | johnx | bummer |
| 22:19.04 | BCMM | dRbiG: man screen, specifically -U |
| 22:19.06 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 22:19.37 | BCMM | looks like unicode support is off by default, in case your terminal doesn't support it, but you can enable it with -U |
| 22:20.06 | dRbiG | BCMM: great, 'll check it |
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| 22:20.58 | BCMM | dRbiG: i get the impression tmux exists primarly because it's really useful to have that sort of thing, and the BSD folk don't like having GNU screen |
| 22:21.07 | BCMM | "tmux is part of the OpenBSD base system." |
| 22:21.13 | unluckier | my client runs in screen.. give me unicode. .... |
| 22:21.14 | DocScrutinizer | picks up a screen session on a shell box, to see what's going on there since he left 3 weeks ago :-D |
| 22:21.46 | *** join/#maemo sar3thz (sar3th@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) |
| 22:21.53 | dRbiG | BCMM: afair when tmux was started screen had no unicode, and tmux was rewritten from scratch and optimized, and yes it had BSD licences |
| 22:22.04 | dRbiG | which is very important in business world :) |
| 22:22.11 | unluckier | BCMM: oh, openbsd. yes, that explains a lot. |
| 22:22.15 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (~fnoridans@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 22:22.31 | dRbiG | screen -U and works! :D |
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| 22:22.43 | dRbiG | great, now i can write all languages at once hehe |
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| 22:24.21 | BCMM | dRbiG: i imagine you have a large number of bluetooth keyboard that you carry in a backpack |
| 22:24.32 | BCMM | in different alphabets |
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| 22:24.59 | dRbiG | hehe, why would i need that, when i can simply switch the language in windows ;D |
| 22:25.37 | dRbiG | although i do miss the russian phonetic mapping available for X |
| 22:26.02 | dRbiG | much easier than their layout, well |
| 22:26.33 | DocScrutinizer | screen though has been developed 15km from here, will stay with screen and pass them a beer when I come along eventually. Who needs BSD licence? |
| 22:27.30 | dRbiG | :) |
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| 22:28.43 | BCMM | hmm |
| 22:28.50 | unluckier | DocScrutinizer: give them one from me too. ah, get them drunk and force them to defend their license choice =) |
| 22:28.51 | BCMM | does tmux do multiple connections? |
| 22:29.05 | BCMM | dRbiG: what's windows? |
| 22:29.27 | dRbiG | BCMM: windows, as in ms windows ;) |
| 22:29.44 | BCMM | heh, i remember windows |
| 22:30.36 | DocScrutinizer | opens windows to get some fresh air |
| 22:30.42 | dRbiG | DocScrutinizer: good idea |
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| 22:35.18 | jacktheripper | my first ever wiki edit is Solution #6 here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash Can anyone check it and point me out if I've done something wrong ? |
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| 22:44.21 | jpinx-eeepc | in the n900, is there a keystroke combination that does the same as Alt-Tab to cycle through the windows? |
| 22:44.31 | TiagoTiago | is there a GUI for DOSBOX ont he N900 like there is on Windows? |
| 22:45.13 | ShadowJK | ctrl-backspace is closest |
| 22:45.16 | andre___ | jpinx, no, only ctrl+backspace to get the list of apps, but no cycling |
| 22:45.52 | MohammadAG | unless you install modified-hildon-desktop |
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| 22:47.18 | DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: see matan's modified hildon-desktop |
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| 22:47.48 | jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: where do I see that? |
| 22:48.20 | DocScrutinizer | http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html |
| 22:48.31 | jpinx-eeepc | tks :) |
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| 22:49.48 | DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav : ctrl+backspace behaves like alt-tab on desktop (at least on KDE). While ctrl is pressed, every press of backspace rotates the windows |
| 22:50.27 | DocScrutinizer | s/ : / : 5* / |
| 22:51.06 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I wonder if we should make control panel applets of those |
| 22:51.24 | lcuk | to make setting them up easier |
| 22:51.28 | DocScrutinizer | mumbles "tweakr" |
| 22:51.59 | MohammadAG | wants to add portrait support to some stock apps |
| 22:52.05 | MohammadAG | control panel and modest would be two |
| 22:52.21 | lcuk | :) a modest patch would be awesome |
| 22:52.37 | MohammadAG | the control panel is open source right? |
| 22:52.51 | lcuk | i believe so |
| 22:52.52 | DocScrutinizer | wants to install mhd without losing SSU compatibility and cpu hog fix |
| 22:52.57 | lcuk | individual applets may not be |
| 22:52.57 | crashanddie | just spent the evening curing olives |
| 22:53.24 | lcuk | :) crashanddie |
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| 22:53.33 | lcuk | anyway, for the second time tonight, gnite \o |
| 22:53.38 | crashanddie | 'nite |
| 22:53.50 | crashanddie | We gathered 7kg worth of olives from the garden |
| 22:54.30 | SpeedEvil1 | Fun. |
| 22:54.48 | BCMM | modest would benefit greatly from portrait mode, especially for reading longs emails or looking down large folders |
| 22:54.50 | SpeedEvil1 | I got 20Kg of rasps, 10Kg of assorted other mixed fruit, and 60Kg of apples. |
| 22:54.52 | TiagoTiago | tomorrow i gotta vote, i got no idea who is less worse, gonna probably vote null :( |
| 22:55.06 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: for what? |
| 22:55.07 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil1: I live in a city :P |
| 22:55.27 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil1: and olive trees that produce anything need to be at least 20-30 years old |
| 22:55.33 | SpeedEvil1 | I know |
| 22:55.37 | DocScrutinizer | and the raspberry jam is AWESOME :-D |
| 22:55.41 | SpeedEvil1 | :) |
| 22:55.42 | TiagoTiago | president, governor, and some and a couple senators or congresspeople |
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| 22:56.16 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: which country? |
| 22:56.17 | TiagoTiago | \s\and some and\and\ |
| 22:56.21 | TiagoTiago | Brazil |
| 22:56.47 | crashanddie | thing is, it'll take about 2 to 3 months for the olives to be ready for consumption |
| 22:57.02 | TiagoTiago | what i did wrong witht he s thing there? |
| 22:57.17 | BCMM | crashanddie: what do you have to do to olives to make them edible? |
| 22:57.26 | TiagoTiago | let them piccle? |
| 22:57.30 | crashanddie | there's a few ways |
| 22:57.46 | BCMM | also, which part of the world do you live in? |
| 22:57.52 | crashanddie | south of france |
| 22:58.06 | crashanddie | BCMM: usually you have to let them "unbitter" in water or brine for a month |
| 22:58.17 | BCMM | all i have is a windowsill in a flat in the UK, but i grow chillis |
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| 22:58.25 | jpinx-eeepc | grew olives in Spain... |
| 22:58.48 | BCMM | crashanddie: oh, there i was thinking they were always in brine to keep longer |
| 22:59.40 | crashanddie | well, the brine prevents them from rotting I guess as well |
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| 23:02.14 | crashanddie | one third of the batch is being cured in brine, the other two thirds are in clear water |
| 23:02.20 | crashanddie | (and they're green olives) |
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| 23:06.14 | SpeedEvil | Is pressing oil easy? |
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| 23:06.42 | crashanddie | no idea, never done that |
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| 23:08.01 | crashanddie | not something I'm interested in anyway -- good oil requires very good olives and very good technique |
| 23:08.32 | crashanddie | This is just for snacks and salads |
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| 23:09.19 | SpeedEvil | ah |
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| 23:12.05 | *** join/#maemo sivang (~sivan@46-116-181-157.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 23:12.09 | sivang | evening |
| 23:12.35 | sivang | is this a new thing for the device to have downloads.maemo.nokia.com instead of good 'o repository. ? |
| 23:12.40 | kthomas_vh | evening |
| 23:12.43 | sivang | hey kthomas_vh ! |
| 23:12.47 | sivang | kthomas_vh: how you been? |
| 23:12.48 | kthomas_vh | howdy |
| 23:12.58 | kthomas_vh | buzy! |
| 23:13.04 | kthomas_vh | you? |
| 23:13.07 | crashanddie | "good 'o"? |
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| 23:14.16 | sivang | crashanddie: well, what made a switch happen? is it the same? and while http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_FAQ#How_do_I_enable_extras.2C_extras-testing.2C_and_extras-devel_in_Scratchbox suggests using repo for sb, can I use d.m.n.c instead? |
| 23:14.36 | sivang | kthomas_vh: busy as well, but with scartchbox, c++, qt and a lot of Maemo :) |
| 23:14.46 | sivang | kthomas_vh: it was a long long weekend here so got a lot of time |
| 23:14.52 | crashanddie | I was questioning the spelling, not the accuracy. |
| 23:15.19 | sivang | crashanddie: oh :) |
| 23:15.34 | sivang | crashanddie: good old, in a shortened, sothern accent way |
| 23:15.50 | crashanddie | "good ol'", then, not "good 'o" |
| 23:16.14 | crashanddie | or "good ole" |
| 23:16.18 | kthomas_vh | sivang, unfortunately, here, tasks tend to eat up time :) |
| 23:16.34 | sivang | kthomas_vh: may I ask what's your trade? |
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| 23:17.26 | BCMM | SpeedEvil: i don't know about olive oil production either, but it must be pretty labour-intensive, since i've seen people use camels to do the grinding bit |
| 23:18.06 | sivang | crashanddie: I found, so it is still using repo for only for non nokia stuff, or apps that are part of the SSU, I guess it always was llike this, and adding them to sb will make no sense because it is rare they will have sources published at that repo etc. |
| 23:18.34 | crashanddie | sivang: that would be my suspicion as well. |
| 23:19.11 | kthomas_vh | sivang, I have a few hats, but mostly these days for $ I program the hard parts of Drupal websites, and provide Drupal consulting |
| 23:19.43 | johnx | kthomas_vh, fun, fun. :) I bet that's fun about half the time and maddening the other half |
| 23:20.05 | kthomas_vh | johnx, that's probably the actual ration |
| 23:20.27 | kthomas_vh | *ratio; more often than not, maddening seems more than 3/4ths |
| 23:21.05 | johnx | well, you have clients thrown in. most of my drupal work is internal to one company and I get to do the 'simple' drupal stuff as well |
| 23:21.25 | sivang | kthomas_vh: ah right you told me already, so you worked during the holiday? |
| 23:22.02 | sivang | kthomas_vh: php.... I used to work for Zend once |
| 23:22.45 | kthomas_vh | sivang, I tried to avoid any task that I considered actual work, but ... |
| 23:22.57 | kthomas_vh | well... |
| 23:23.26 | sivang | crashanddie: I wonder if it is possible to get the media player source off the apps SSU etc, probably not |
| 23:23.39 | crashanddie | nope |
| 23:23.39 | sivang | :) |
| 23:23.41 | kthomas_vh | we had actually just finished a project in the US, with was a bear at the end, so I was mostly wiped out from that |
| 23:23.45 | sivang | is it based on/open progam? |
| 23:24.02 | sivang | kthomas_vh: ah.. bear? |
| 23:24.06 | crashanddie | Don't think so |
| 23:24.42 | kthomas_vh | difficult; subversion repo was down for more than 12 of the final hours, for instance |
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| 23:24.54 | sivang | kthomas_vh: oh bad, you should have failovers |
| 23:25.51 | kthomas_vh | I'll try to get the project manager to convey that to the government entity we were working for :P |
| 23:25.52 | sivang | kthomas_vh: and the repo replicated over them |
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| 23:28.30 | sivang | crashanddie: they are also protected by a password that the on device HAM/apt uses to access. odd |
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| 23:29.38 | crashanddie | kthomas_vh: the project manager shouldn't be the one designing redundancy. If he is, you're at one helluva shit company. |
| 23:29.58 | kthomas_vh | crashanddie, heh |
| 23:30.01 | kthomas_vh | I've seen worse |
| 23:30.16 | kthomas_vh | in this case, we're subcontracting to a gov't department |
| 23:30.29 | kthomas_vh | their sysadmins design systems (or not) |
| 23:30.44 | kthomas_vh | we take what we get and have no rel'n except through the PM |
| 23:30.45 | sivang | oh they're the best- |
| 23:30.54 | sivang | they like to have meeting on top of meetings on top of meetings. |
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| 23:31.04 | sivang | ;) |
| 23:31.08 | kthomas_vh | can we have a meeting about that? |
| 23:31.14 | sivang | kthomas_vh: excatly/1 |
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| 23:31.50 | sivang | kthomas_vh: I was once having 3 weeks in a row of meeting to convince the PM that we can port or find better version and support of stuff in Monta Vista in plain Debian |
| 23:32.19 | kthomas_vh | yick |
| 23:33.52 | crashanddie | I was had 2 months of waiting for a 5 day development |
| 23:34.00 | crashanddie | s/was/once |
| 23:34.14 | crashanddie | "Client hasn't paid the bills" |
| 23:34.48 | kthomas_vh | heh |
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| 23:35.07 | kthomas_vh | that's better than continuing to work for a client who will never pay, I guess |
| 23:35.34 | crashanddie | well, when you look at the credit lines our companies used to have, we were surprised they ever paid |
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| 23:35.52 | kthomas_vh | ha |
| 23:35.55 | crashanddie | A big british telecom company once had over 3M pounds in credit. |
| 23:36.24 | kthomas_vh | with your employer? could be reasonable, could be not |
| 23:36.38 | crashanddie | and that was just the software, hardware they usually paid for promptly |
| 23:36.50 | kthomas_vh | ah |
| 23:37.06 | kthomas_vh | feels a US joke coming on |
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| 23:37.31 | crashanddie | I got nothing. |
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| 23:39.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | is watchin Brazil :-) |
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| 23:43.01 | kerio | Brazil is great |
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