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| 00:33.27 | wmarone | fail |
| 00:33.32 | fredrin | -1 |
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| 00:41.53 | b-man` | wooh! i almost have netbsd booting on my N900 :) |
| 00:42.22 | b-man` | just need to figure out how to resolve the undefined instruction errors |
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| 00:44.33 | luke-jr__ | ⦠|
| 00:46.47 | b-man` | displays boot information for about 10 seconds, and then dies with an "undefined instruction in kernel" error |
| 00:47.02 | b-man` | so it partially works |
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| 00:57.25 | fredrin | b-man`, why netbsd? |
| 00:57.43 | b-man` | for an experiment |
| 00:58.17 | fredrin | :) |
| 00:58.22 | nox- | undefined instruction... maybe wrong compiler flags? |
| 01:00.15 | b-man` | it's using a toolchain straight from the source tree |
| 01:00.16 | b-man` | hmm |
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| 01:14.21 | DocScrutinizer | shouldn't 'SIGILL' cause a kernel oops or panic that would yield some pointer on where in source to search for the illegal instruction? |
| 01:15.36 | nox- | true maybe he can put a kernel debugger in (that would be ddb on freebsd...) |
| 01:15.53 | DocScrutinizer | no kernel debuggers on arm :-/ |
| 01:16.04 | nox- | oh |
| 01:16.24 | DocScrutinizer | I'd be more than pleased to stand corrected |
| 01:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | would be mad useful for hostmode :-D |
| 01:17.24 | nox- | hm freebsd /sys/conf/files.arm does have some optional ddb entries... |
| 01:17.35 | DocScrutinizer | starts hating printk() |
| 01:18.19 | nox- | oh btw isnt there a qemu fork now that emulates n900? that should have a gdbstub too... |
| 01:18.48 | nox- | (which ofc is more useful than ddb :) |
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| 01:19.59 | nox- | remembers using that when debugging qemu's zaurus emu some time ago... |
| 01:20.20 | nox- | qemu-system-arm -s ... |
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| 01:20.26 | delt | Hello |
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| 01:20.30 | nox- | (gdb) target remote 127.1:1234 |
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| 01:22.40 | delt | i managed to get my n810 to talk to the PC via the USB port, now i can enable/disable "r&d mode" etc .... but how can i make it boot with an initrd as root filesystem? |
| 01:23.07 | delt | (without modifying the contents of the partitions on the n810) |
| 01:23.53 | delt | oh, and where would one find such initrd images? (and newest OS version etc...) |
| 01:23.57 | Aranel | Does Vanilla flashing re-write the kernel to original state? |
| 01:24.21 | Aranel | removing Host Mode, NITdroid and other hacks? |
| 01:24.57 | delt | um, i dont think that's the kernel, it would be config files on the root partition |
| 01:26.09 | delt | what would be practical is a way to "flash out" (extract) an image of the root fs FROM the device |
| 01:26.34 | delt | then mount it locally (on the pc) with -o loop |
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| 01:29.27 | b-man` | hmmm |
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| 01:30.52 | b-man` | me sees a lot of jvm_fault_* errors before the undefined instruction in kernel" errors |
| 01:31.26 | b-man` | gah, typefail :P |
| 01:31.54 | nox- | s/jvm/vm/ ? |
| 01:32.20 | b-man` | jvm_fault_<some address> |
| 01:32.34 | b-man` | needs to disable watchdogs to read them |
| 01:32.49 | b-man` | otherwise it shuts down before i can lol |
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| 01:33.54 | nox- | or could you use the n900 qemu too? |
| 01:35.58 | b-man` | yeah |
| 01:36.23 | b-man` | gah, screen is scrolling too fast :P |
| 01:36.36 | b-man` | hmm |
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| 01:49.59 | nox- | hm http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/search?v=NETBSD&string=jvm_fault returns empty quickly and http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/search?v=NETBSD&string=vm_fault seems to find only(?) uvm_fault stuff... |
| 01:51.00 | delt | wuhh?? if the battery is empty (or there's no battery) you can't even plug the n810 on a usb port? |
| 01:51.27 | delt | does it charge the battery while it's rebooting and rebooting if its plugged into a charger? |
| 01:52.34 | delt | oh, and why can't you use the charger while connecting to USB port? that would suck if the battery is empty |
| 01:53.41 | b-man` | nox-: just took another look, seems to actually be uvm_fault |
| 01:53.49 | nox- | ah :) |
| 01:54.44 | b-man` | so there might be a problem with the virtual memory system |
| 01:54.51 | b-man` | perhaps a bad address? |
| 01:55.23 | nox- | maybe... |
| 01:55.58 | delt | of course white screen with brightness to MAXIMUM.... does this use up the battery when plugged via USB? |
| 01:56.08 | nox- | i guess you want either the serial console or the n900 qemu (as long as the error happens there too...) |
| 01:56.45 | nox- | delt, i dont know about n810, can it charge via usb too? |
| 01:56.46 | SpeedEvil | delt: no |
| 01:57.08 | delt | ah ok.... but it DOES require the battery to be present to turn it on...>? |
| 01:57.13 | SpeedEvil | oh - don't know about the 810 |
| 01:57.23 | SpeedEvil | As far as I'm aware - yes - it requires a battery |
| 01:57.31 | delt | nox: i think it does (charge via usb) |
| 01:57.32 | nox- | thats also what i think |
| 01:57.44 | nox- | delt, ah ok then you should be fine |
| 01:58.17 | delt | iirc it says on the box, 2sec |
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| 02:01.34 | delt | hmm, seems like you can't charge over usb :( :( |
| 02:01.48 | nox- | oh |
| 02:02.27 | nox- | and the usb connector is to near to the charging one for both to be plugged in at the same time? |
| 02:02.32 | nox- | too near |
| 02:03.17 | delt | on the 810? no, there's a good 3 cm distance between |
| 02:03.49 | nox- | <delt> oh, and why can't you use the charger while connecting to USB port? that would suck if the battery is empty |
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| 02:04.23 | delt | am just wondering why the docs say to NOT use the charger while flashing the rootfs |
| 02:04.42 | nox- | ooh while flashing... |
| 02:05.09 | nox- | i guess thats `special' then :) |
| 02:05.52 | delt | so, i guess the device's hardware does charge the battery by default, when it's rebooting constantly? |
| 02:06.10 | delt | if not, then nokia's engineers need to be shot. |
| 02:06.51 | Termana | Need to be shot anyhow. |
| 02:06.57 | Termana | :P |
| 02:07.00 | nox- | i think its more that charging needs at least `some' kernelsupport which is impossible during flashing |
| 02:07.15 | nox- | s/suppport/ support/ |
| 02:08.02 | Termana | nox-, more like, when not doing an emergency charge it needs BME (meaning, a working userspace) |
| 02:08.15 | nox- | ok |
| 02:08.26 | delt | i just checked, plugged to USB, and blue USB logo showing up in the upper right... take out battery (which is the only way to turn it off) ... shuts off |
| 02:08.55 | Termana | delt, yes, you didn't expect it to continue to work without the battery did you? |
| 02:09.12 | delt | Termana: there's a +5V pin on the usb port, yes or no? |
| 02:09.39 | Termana | delt, I don't know specifics, but I know that doesn't work (from previous work that's been displayed here) |
| 02:10.17 | Termana | Search t.m.o for DocScrutinizer's post on changing batteries while the device is still on |
| 02:10.50 | delt | well, i assumed (wrongly) that if some tablets can charge the battery through a usb port, then this one can at least run using power from it |
| 02:11.08 | SpeedEvil | It adds cost. |
| 02:11.12 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
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| 02:12.29 | delt | ok... so i have the charger, usb cable, and the battery, but (let's say) the battery is dead. My n810 won't do anything but reboot constantly unless it's plugged on the USB port (and that needs a battery) ....what do i do? |
| 02:12.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | it doesn't work |
| 02:13.08 | SpeedEvil | get a new batrtrery |
| 02:13.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | modem takes too much (worst case), usb connectors can't take that much current |
| 02:13.32 | delt | so for all i know the battery might be at 1% - and if i start flashing, this might brick the device permanently. |
| 02:13.35 | lcuk | did i see some random hack for some device involving jump leads |
| 02:14.24 | nox- | delt, charge first? or is that also broken? |
| 02:14.28 | delt | nox: how? |
| 02:14.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | what are jump leds? |
| 02:14.55 | delt | that's why i asked 22:06 < delt> so, i guess the device's hardware does charge the battery by default, when it's rebooting constantly? |
| 02:14.58 | nox- | leads |
| 02:15.01 | nox- | not leds :) |
| 02:15.12 | delt | cables soldered on the pcb? |
| 02:15.33 | nox- | thats what i understand it as |
| 02:16.03 | Termana | delt, hold on a second. Are you talking about an n810 or an n900? |
| 02:16.11 | Termana | Not that it really makes much difference either way |
| 02:16.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | basically none of NITs charges without proper userland working |
| 02:16.20 | delt | n810. anyway, i turn on the tablet. it does nothing but reboot (doesnt even show the blue progress bar at the bottom) |
| 02:16.53 | nox- | how does this `emergency chage' work? |
| 02:17.01 | nox- | could that help him? |
| 02:17.14 | Termana | nox-, there is no emergency charge on the n810 |
| 02:17.18 | nox- | ooh |
| 02:17.19 | Termana | I thought he was talking about an n900 |
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| 02:17.35 | luke-jr__ | Termana: but N810 can boot w/o battery |
| 02:17.39 | delt | just before rebooting, the brightness goes lower (i presume to what i set it to) and there's a 2cm x 1cm black rectangle on the LOWER LEFT and UPPER RIGHT corners for about 2 seconds. |
| 02:17.41 | luke-jr__ | and then run BME |
| 02:18.51 | Termana | luke-jr__, yeah, except he's userspace is screwed (or at least I think so), so he can't run BME |
| 02:18.55 | delt | yes, it works with a charger, but for some reason the docs say i can't use the charger when flashing the n810 |
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| 02:20.13 | delt | DocScrutinizer51: NIT == Nokia Internet Tablet? |
| 02:20.28 | luke-jr__ | Termana: so flash whiel on AC power? |
| 02:20.28 | delt | (just a wild guess) |
| 02:20.42 | Termana | delt, yes, 770, N800, N810 and N900 |
| 02:20.45 | delt | luke-jr__: [ ... ] but for some reason the docs say i can't use the charger when flashing the n810 |
| 02:21.04 | Termana | delt, have you tried to do it, forgetting what the docs say? |
| 02:21.10 | luke-jr__ | delt: then build a charger kernel |
| 02:21.23 | delt | Termana: not yet, no |
| 02:21.26 | delt | luke-jr__: wuh?? |
| 02:21.41 | delt | a kernel that runs on the ac/dc adapter.... not following |
| 02:21.44 | luke-jr__ | delt: if you try Termana's idea, just be sure to NOT include NOLO in your flashin |
| 02:22.03 | luke-jr__ | delt: a self-encapsulated kernel+initramfs with BME on it to charge |
| 02:22.03 | delt | OH yeah that makes sense (being the boot loader) |
| 02:22.19 | luke-jr__ | flasher can then boot that kernel w/o flashing |
| 02:22.19 | delt | BME == ? |
| 02:22.28 | luke-jr__ | BME is the blob that charges the battery |
| 02:22.32 | delt | ah ok |
| 02:22.42 | delt | so how do i do that without a minisd card? |
| 02:22.47 | luke-jr__ | .. |
| 02:22.52 | luke-jr__ | with flasher |
| 02:22.57 | luke-jr__ | MiniSD wouldn't even be useful here |
| 02:23.04 | delt | and preferably without replacing the current content of the tablet? |
| 02:23.10 | luke-jr__ | with flasher |
| 02:23.17 | luke-jr__ | see -l option |
| 02:23.21 | luke-jr__ | (lowercase L) |
| 02:23.24 | johnx | flasher can load things as well as flash them |
| 02:23.29 | delt | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.45 | luke-jr__ | yeah, as in, into RAM |
| 02:23.47 | nox- | oh so thats a bit like pxe? |
| 02:23.47 | Termana | The whole BME situation is a pain in the arse. I hope Nokia sees the light of day and forgets all about BME for future linux based devices. |
| 02:23.55 | luke-jr__ | nox-: except PXE is network |
| 02:23.56 | delt | wait a minute... load as in, EXTRACT FROM the device? |
| 02:24.01 | luke-jr__ | Termana: LOL |
| 02:24.03 | nox- | yeah, usb instead of notwork |
| 02:24.16 | luke-jr__ | Termana: Nokia's already come out and basically said they're going to pressure other MeeGo vendors to close their charging stuff too |
| 02:24.18 | luke-jr__ | :/ |
| 02:24.28 | Termana | :| |
| 02:24.29 | nox- | uh :( |
| 02:24.35 | luke-jr__ | delt: no, load the kernel file to RAM, for booting |
| 02:24.46 | delt | oh, on the tablet's ram |
| 02:24.49 | luke-jr__ | Termana: see the BME bug |
| 02:24.59 | Termana | Nokia, I am disappoint |
| 02:25.27 | nox- | luke-jr__, whats the point of having closed charging stuff? |
| 02:25.39 | luke-jr__ | nox-: besides pissing people off? no clue :D |
| 02:25.44 | johnx | some kind of mumbling about people blowing up their battery |
| 02:25.51 | nox- | oh :( |
| 02:25.56 | luke-jr__ | johnx: which is unfounded |
| 02:26.03 | johnx | then some kind of mumbling about it costing money to open source |
| 02:26.11 | luke-jr__ | you're more likely to blow up your battery without code/docs, than with it |
| 02:26.21 | johnx | could be some kind of 3rd party intellectual property for all we know |
| 02:26.38 | delt | luke-jr__: so i suppose it would be possible "flasher -l" an initrd/initramfs that will let me tar up the whole contents of the n810, then i can erase them from the n810 |
| 02:26.49 | Termana | johnx, well, you know if they actually did charging properly, it wouldn't interfere with userspace and it would be fine. |
| 02:26.52 | luke-jr__ | delt: it only loads kernels. kernels can contain initramfs inside |
| 02:26.55 | nox- | johnx, i charging _that_ difficult? :) |
| 02:26.57 | delt | ah ok |
| 02:27.00 | luke-jr__ | nox-: no |
| 02:27.05 | nox- | s/i/is/ |
| 02:27.14 | johnx | Termana, yup. I remember the Zaurus as well :) |
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| 02:27.33 | delt | luke-jr__: ah. so, where could i find such a "rescue" kernel image? |
| 02:27.43 | luke-jr__ | Termana: actually, I like the idea of having the charger on the CPU somewhere :P |
| 02:27.51 | luke-jr__ | delt: afaik nobody has ever made it before. |
| 02:28.19 | luke-jr__ | Termana: I'd prefer to tweak my device to lengthen the battery lifespan |
| 02:28.22 | delt | so i have to compile one. which involves a cross-compiler for ARM (at least) |
| 02:28.32 | luke-jr__ | Termana: supposedly if you let it discharge more, before topping off, it lasts longer |
| 02:28.40 | luke-jr__ | delt: or a native one, sure |
| 02:28.58 | delt | native one running on what? |
| 02:29.22 | luke-jr__ | Termana: so it'd be cool to tell my handheld what time I need to leave home, and have it plan its overnight charging routine to hit 100% right at that time |
| 02:29.28 | luke-jr__ | delt: another ARM system |
| 02:29.36 | delt | which i dont have :( |
| 02:29.43 | johnx | delt, google had this to say: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd |
| 02:29.44 | luke-jr__ | oh well |
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| 02:29.51 | luke-jr__ | johnx: that's N900 |
| 02:29.56 | johnx | ah, crap |
| 02:29.58 | johnx | yeah |
| 02:30.09 | luke-jr__ | but might still be useful info on there |
| 02:30.17 | delt | johnx: tell dr.google "wrong patient" n810 here |
| 02:30.22 | Termana | luke-jr__, sounds good. But I personally just like to have it out of the way. Weather that be code hidden in the bootloader/radio code or hardware based. More reliable, and doesn't give you this crap. |
| 02:30.25 | johnx | the theory is probably sound at least |
| 02:30.27 | johnx | sorry delt |
| 02:31.18 | johnx | why does he need a new kernel vs just a modified initrd? |
| 02:31.25 | delt | johnx: 22:28 < luke-jr__> delt: afaik nobody has ever made it before. |
| 02:31.37 | delt | i assume he was talking about a rescue-kernel image? |
| 02:31.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr__: citation needed. Nokia can't 'press other meego device manufs' |
| 02:32.02 | johnx | I mean, sure you could change the kernel, but modifying the initrd is easier |
| 02:32.07 | Termana | johnx, possibly to build in the initramfs (into the kernel) |
| 02:32.08 | johnx | and it's what we did to boot Mer from SD |
| 02:32.24 | johnx | you're just trying to get a rescue shell, right delt? |
| 02:32.47 | delt | johnx: that would be useful, if USB is supported |
| 02:32.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | Termana: you're right about bme = PITA, but don't think an open solution would solve bootstrap problems |
| 02:33.15 | johnx | delt, it is of course |
| 02:33.31 | delt | im just trying to salvage the contents of the tablet before i flash it |
| 02:33.50 | johnx | great. let's see if I can find a ready-made initrd |
| 02:33.55 | johnx | otherwise you'll have to make one |
| 02:34.30 | delt | AND make sure the battery has enough power to perform such flash operation OR know if i can use a charger contrary to what the documentation says |
| 02:34.36 | nox- | if he just flashes kernel/rootfs wouldnt the user data still be alive? or is that only possible on n900? |
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| 02:35.04 | johnx | even on the N900, you would lose parts of $HOME |
| 02:35.11 | nox- | hm ok |
| 02:35.36 | johnx | delt, you know how init works, right? if not i'll give the long explanation, but ... |
| 02:35.51 | delt | johnx: init on normal unix systems? yeah |
| 02:35.56 | delt | as in PID 1? |
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| 02:36.53 | delt | ie. with most linux boot loaders you can override the default /bin/init with kernel boot argument init=/whatever/else ...? am i thinking about the right "init" ? |
| 02:37.01 | johnx | yeah |
| 02:37.06 | johnx | right, so init is in initrd. to change which initrd gets mounted we could change the kernel image |
| 02:37.10 | Termana | DocScrutinizer51, Nah I didn't think an open solution would - like I said, Nokia should have had the foresight to do what other manufactures are doing - weather they are hiding the code in radio/bootloader or charging completely in hardware. |
| 02:37.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | uhuh |
| 02:37.42 | johnx | but that's a pain (cause we'd have to rebuild it). so in this case we substitute a modified initrd, and run a rescue shell from it |
| 02:38.09 | delt | ok, following so far, especially "that's a pain (cause we'd have to rebuild it)." |
| 02:38.14 | johnx | heh |
| 02:38.37 | johnx | right, so BME and DSME (device state monitor(?) entity) run out of initrd, so we're all good there |
| 02:38.54 | johnx | so all we really need to do is shoehorn a small telnetd into place and we're good |
| 02:39.26 | delt | initrd being initRAMDISK, right? ie. filesystem loaded in RAM and not physicall on disk (or flash mem) |
| 02:39.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | Termana: I know about other devices with similar problems, but you're right NOLO could have a 'hold C for bat chrg' opton |
| 02:39.46 | johnx | delt, well, it's loaded from a flash partition |
| 02:40.00 | johnx | but it's not written back to flash |
| 02:40.14 | johnx | or at least not unless we 'flash' it back |
| 02:40.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | Termana: but then a proper rescue system would've been even nicer |
| 02:40.26 | delt | why from a flash partition? |
| 02:40.40 | johnx | cause it's easy |
| 02:40.59 | delt | and how do i write it to a flash partition with the device in this state |
| 02:40.59 | johnx | no need to have a filesystem driver, just "load n bytes from m offset" |
| 02:41.00 | delt | ? |
| 02:41.07 | johnx | you use flasher to write it :) |
| 02:41.18 | johnx | you tell flasher "just replace my initrd" |
| 02:41.29 | johnx | but we're getting ahead of ourselves |
| 02:41.30 | delt | and overwrite the partition's allocation table? |
| 02:41.42 | johnx | just overwrite the contents of that flash partition |
| 02:41.59 | johnx | anyways, that's the easy part |
| 02:42.07 | johnx | first we need to make you a rescue initrd by hand |
| 02:42.57 | delt | so in 2-3 years, no one has EVER encountered a problem like this, and no one has EVER made a "minimal" kernel with a initrd that just lets you boot, charge, use usb, ....? |
| 02:42.59 | luke-jr__ | DocScrutinizer51: Maemo bug 9314 comment 12 (Quim Gil), suggesting that more vendors should close "charging systems"; contrast with the present situation where every vendor except Nokia that uses Linux for charging has an open charging system |
| 02:43.00 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 Relicense BME |
| 02:43.26 | johnx | no room for an initramfs in the kernel partition and can't redistribute the initrd because of BME :) |
| 02:43.43 | luke-jr__ | johnx: BME is redistributable non-commerically |
| 02:43.58 | luke-jr__ | johnx: and flasher can presumably load kernels up to 128 MB :p |
| 02:43.59 | delt | kernel partition is NOT the / partition right? |
| 02:44.10 | johnx | delt, correct |
| 02:44.15 | johnx | luke-jr, dunno then |
| 02:44.20 | delt | ie. on PC, when you use lilo you're not writing to a filesystem |
| 02:44.39 | johnx | so the normal way to go is to 'create' a custom initrd on the device itself with automated scripts that pull the initrd out of that device, modify it (add telnetd, bootmenu) and write it back, all on a running device |
| 02:44.52 | delt | you're reading your kernel image FROM a filesystem and writing it to the first blocks of your hdd (or partition) |
| 02:44.58 | *** join/#maemo Dregs (~Dregs@unaffiliated/dregz) |
| 02:45.18 | delt | uh wait a minute " |
| 02:45.27 | johnx | delt, actually, with LILO, aren't you just writing a list of kernels to the boot sector? |
| 02:45.34 | delt | uh wait a minute "pull the initrd out of that device" how do you do that? |
| 02:45.51 | johnx | on a running device? mount it read-only and cp -a |
| 02:46.06 | johnx | "pull a copy of it" |
| 02:46.22 | delt | ok, so constantly rebooting doesn't count as "running" device i suppose? |
| 02:46.34 | johnx | can you execute arbitrary code on it? |
| 02:46.58 | delt | well, the bootup code seems to behave pretty arbitrarily to me |
| 02:47.05 | delt | :/ |
| 02:47.12 | johnx | *rim shot* |
| 02:48.02 | johnx | anyways, it doesn't boot even with watchdog disabled, right? |
| 02:48.15 | delt | haven't tried that |
| 02:48.20 | johnx | please try that |
| 02:48.33 | delt | how do i disable watchdog timer? |
| 02:48.52 | delt | "rd mode" then a specific flag i think i read the other day? |
| 02:48.57 | johnx | http://carloseducesa.blogspot.com/2009/09/retu-watchdog-turning-off-n810.html |
| 02:49.38 | delt | oh yeah, i saw that page yesterday... doesnt he say NOT to try that? |
| 02:50.02 | johnx | huh |
| 02:50.10 | johnx | hasn't been my experience on an N800 |
| 02:50.18 | johnx | maybe it's a different command |
| 02:50.23 | delt | So, avoid to try to disable the watchdog on retu, or your N810 will be turned off by its watchdog :) |
| 02:50.37 | luke-jr__ | delt: ⦠LILO is very obsolete :p |
| 02:50.39 | johnx | that's uhm, contrary to what I've experienced |
| 02:50.41 | delt | ok, plugging back the tablet to usb, enabling rd mode... |
| 02:51.04 | delt | luke-jr__: wgaff, it works |
| 02:51.08 | delt | besides, so is my brain |
| 02:52.16 | johnx | ah |
| 02:52.17 | johnx | right |
| 02:52.21 | johnx | 'no-lifeguard-reset' |
| 02:52.35 | delt | ok, so, flasher --enable-rd-mode now thsi little "control panel" thing appeared under the blue nokia logo |
| 02:52.58 | johnx | yeah |
| 02:53.02 | delt | --set-rd-flags right? |
| 02:53.07 | johnx | hang on |
| 02:53.10 | johnx | finding the right command |
| 02:53.35 | johnx | so you already ran 'enable-rd-mode' right? |
| 02:53.39 | johnx | now: flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset -R |
| 02:54.40 | delt | ah, now i get kernel output in green on top of the nokia startup screen |
| 02:54.45 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 02:55.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr__: meh, have read that before, idn't make me cheer and dance. But honestly, Nokia is acting stupid here, bme is acting stupid, and the differentiation argument is stupid |
| 02:55.20 | delt | kernel 2.6.21-omap1, initfs 2008-43, nolo 1.1.16 |
| 02:56.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr__: but I haven't read anything about Nokia pressing other manufs to do anything. They simply can't |
| 02:56.36 | delt | stays stuck there (BUT i can turn it off with the power switch) |
| 02:57.08 | johnx | delt, did you see if plugging it into a computer gets you access to the internal card? |
| 02:57.32 | delt | ie. it should show up as a mass storage usb device? |
| 02:57.59 | delt | yep. sdb appears |
| 02:58.16 | delt | with one partition sdb1 |
| 02:58.26 | johnx | well, some of your stuff is there :) |
| 02:58.34 | delt | aight! |
| 02:58.38 | johnx | uhm, what all did you want off of it? |
| 02:59.20 | delt | oh, can i now fdsik this piece of shit WINDOWZ partition into an ext2/3 ? |
| 02:59.43 | delt | (which is what caused this whole mess in the first place) |
| 03:00.02 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@166.187.180.62) |
| 03:00.08 | johnx | uhm, you could try. make sure you get your stuff first |
| 03:00.29 | delt | /dev/sdb1 1962220 829396 1132824 43% /mnt |
| 03:00.31 | delt | ok.... |
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| 03:00.49 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-121-247-112.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 03:01.33 | delt | oh btw, "share" contains this: fonts/ games/ icons/ locale/ osso-help/ sounds/ |
| 03:02.17 | delt | would ANY OF THESE MISSING from /usr/share BEFORE mmc2 gets booted, cause the tablet to NOT boot properly? |
| 03:02.23 | delt | would ANY OF THESE MISSING from /usr/share BEFORE mmc2 gets mounted, cause the tablet to NOT boot properly? |
| 03:02.26 | delt | sorry |
| 03:02.36 | johnx | sure |
| 03:02.37 | johnx | icons |
| 03:02.42 | johnx | fonts |
| 03:02.45 | johnx | locale |
| 03:02.47 | johnx | sounds |
| 03:02.59 | delt | wtf????? |
| 03:03.18 | johnx | mmc2 gets mounted *after* the GUI is running, I believe |
| 03:03.24 | delt | you mean all those directories HAVE to be on the / fs ??? |
| 03:03.42 | johnx | or modify when mmc2 gets mounted *shrugs* |
| 03:03.52 | delt | wtf??? and that would be because nokia are fucking retards, or what??!?!?? |
| 03:04.06 | johnx | you're two years late to complain about this |
| 03:04.18 | delt | just got this tablet like 2 weeks ago |
| 03:04.37 | johnx | meh. then you didn't do your research *and* you're two years late |
| 03:05.03 | lpotter_ | and not all nokians are retards |
| 03:05.35 | johnx | lpotter_++ |
| 03:05.47 | delt | *sigh* OK. so as i said the kernel is not the problem. now how do i edit files in /etc on the root fs? |
| 03:05.54 | johnx | sometimes devices are designed with an audience that's not joe random hacker |
| 03:06.08 | johnx | I always liked vi, but that's just me |
| 03:06.14 | luke-jr__ | DocScrutinizer51: can or can't, they want the situation to change for the worse |
| 03:06.29 | delt | <--- joe random-linux-user-for-the-past-15-years |
| 03:06.45 | johnx | great |
| 03:06.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes, quite disqualifying for Nokia |
| 03:06.59 | delt | um let me rephrase that, how do i make /etc/ on the tablet's root fs accessible from the PC? |
| 03:07.05 | johnx | I was one of the guys hacking debian onto the N8x0, not one of the people complaining to Nokia |
| 03:07.14 | johnx | delt, get it booting, ssh in |
| 03:07.50 | johnx | the kernel is what makes the fs available over usb |
| 03:08.09 | delt | yeah, someone mentioned that earlier today |
| 03:08.19 | johnx | me |
| 03:08.23 | johnx | yesterday |
| 03:09.01 | delt | -> concentration--; |
| 03:09.09 | johnx | heh :) |
| 03:09.27 | johnx | just don't complain like you're owed something and I won't get prickly :) |
| 03:09.38 | delt | really, i have serious nervous system and concentration issues |
| 03:10.02 | lpotter_ | thinks nokia owes him a beer |
| 03:10.29 | johnx | I have serious attention problems, just don't rant/complain too much, ask smart questions and people will be helpful |
| 03:11.30 | delt | so now the "get it booting" part... |
| 03:11.40 | johnx | right. do you have all the files you wanted? |
| 03:11.44 | delt | ssh in would require a sshd, which i had installed on that partition |
| 03:11.51 | delt | yeah, thanks very much for that btw |
| 03:11.55 | johnx | great |
| 03:12.11 | johnx | reflash is the *easiest* way from here |
| 03:12.16 | delt | so now, probably simpler to just re-flash it |
| 03:12.49 | johnx | if you want to get into serious hacker mode you could probably get a rescue initrd setup but it's probably not worth it |
| 03:13.06 | delt | what's the latest (and relatively stable) version of maemo that will run reliably on n810? |
| 03:13.25 | johnx | uhm, whatever it says on tablets-dev.nokia.com |
| 03:13.33 | delt | my brother told me maemo 5 is for the n900 but semi-works on the 810 ...is that correct? |
| 03:13.54 | johnx | that's ... kind of stretching the facts a bit |
| 03:14.22 | delt | i think he said some ppl have tried it and it's really buggy, or something like that |
| 03:14.51 | johnx | is also one of the guys who was working on backporting maemo 5 to the N8x0, but gave up once he was in the process of becoming a linux distro maintainer |
| 03:15.17 | delt | heh, so you're one of the authors of maemo dist? |
| 03:15.21 | johnx | nope |
| 03:15.32 | delt | or at least the arm kernel? |
| 03:15.42 | johnx | errr....just some bored sys admin |
| 03:15.48 | timoph | :) |
| 03:16.10 | johnx | other people did a lot more of the work. I hacked some things and acted as cheer leader and 'proof of concept' guy |
| 03:16.37 | lpotter_ | researcher! |
| 03:16.48 | johnx | basically, we were trying to pull the open parts of maemo 5 and get them running happily on the N8x0 hardware |
| 03:17.27 | johnx | lpotter, research is a a very pretty word to call my hacks :) |
| 03:17.40 | delt | one thing i wanted to make sure of.... can i completely flush this windows partition and replace it with a ext3? |
| 03:17.46 | lpotter | I was being generous, then |
| 03:18.01 | johnx | lpotter, flattery is always appreciated :) |
| 03:18.08 | johnx | delt, uhm, maybe with a bit of work |
| 03:18.28 | delt | other than changing the entry in /etc/fstab and so on? |
| 03:18.58 | johnx | is it mounted from /etc/fstab? |
| 03:19.37 | johnx | anyways, reflash, then start hacking :) |
| 03:19.41 | delt | dunno... but if the 2gb partition "internal card" was... i'd guess wouldnt have any problems with the device right now. |
| 03:20.48 | delt | ok, my frontal lobe hurts im starting to have smoke coming out of my ears. gonna take a look at this tomorrow Thanks for the info all, especially johnx |
| 03:20.55 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 03:21.02 | *** join/#maemo rohanpm (~rohan@kde/developer/rohanpm) |
| 03:21.09 | johnx | delt, good luck :) take a breather and make a fresh start tomorrow |
| 03:21.19 | johnx | always easier to hack when you're not worried about your data |
| 03:21.33 | delt | oh another thing... if i had a minisd card, i could use it as "boot disk" kind of, right? |
| 03:22.40 | delt | i think yesterday someone mentioned booting from external SD (?) |
| 03:23.03 | johnx | delt, exactly |
| 03:23.05 | johnx | boot from sd |
| 03:23.22 | johnx | that's what we did with debian-on-n8x0 and the maemo5-backport (mer) |
| 03:23.45 | delt | so if i had a mini sd card (or a micro with an adapter) this whole thing would have been a lot easier? |
| 03:24.11 | delt | yeah, that is on my to-buy-soon list anyway.... |
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| 03:24.48 | johnx | but to boot from miniSD you need to have flashed an 'alternate' initrd that has 'bootmenu' in it |
| 03:25.02 | johnx | basically a little swtichboard that lets you pick a filesystem to pivot_root onto |
| 03:25.20 | johnx | and to generate that initrd you really need a running device or a lot of involved hacking |
| 03:26.56 | delt | johnx: kind of like lilo's boot-which-os menu? |
| 03:27.24 | johnx | to the user it looks similar |
| 03:27.28 | johnx | in practice it's very different |
| 03:27.51 | johnx | lilo is run before the kernel |
| 03:27.57 | delt | but wouldn't that be the boot loader's job, not the kernel? |
| 03:27.58 | johnx | n8x0 bootmenu is run by init |
| 03:28.13 | delt | whoa... ok...... |
| 03:28.28 | johnx | yeah, we had to do some kinda special hacks. |
| 03:28.44 | johnx | it works though, and it's really not that much of a problem |
| 03:30.11 | delt | which is because of how the arm processor is physically built, i presume? |
| 03:30.22 | delt | or its memory mapper, or whatever.... |
| 03:30.51 | johnx | nah, it's because we didn't want to mess with Nokia's closed source bootloaders |
| 03:31.13 | johnx | plus, we need to have BME running, and it already runs out of initrd |
| 03:31.17 | delt | wtf? and then they take maemo and ship it with a commercial product?? |
| 03:31.25 | johnx | they made maemo ... |
| 03:31.42 | Termana | johnx, not that you can anyway. Not entirely sure about the n810, but on the n900 the bootloader is signed |
| 03:31.42 | delt | oh... but maemo is open source |
| 03:31.54 | johnx | parts of it are |
| 03:32.21 | johnx | anyways, they're a lot more friendly to the open source community than Sharp or Tivo or Sony or HTC |
| 03:32.46 | delt | or microsoft |
| 03:32.52 | delt | sry, brain capacity is at 5% right now |
| 03:32.56 | johnx | :) |
| 03:32.58 | Termana | johnx, ouch. Depending on your viewpoint, I guess :P Not saying they are open source friendly though |
| 03:33.08 | Termana | aren't* |
| 03:33.32 | johnx | Termana, the saga of Sharp and the Zaurus is a long and painful tale |
| 03:34.00 | Termana | johnx, why do you keep thinking I'm talking about the Zaurus? :P I've never even owned one |
| 03:34.15 | johnx | ah, well that's my experience with Sharp |
| 03:34.28 | johnx | super cool hardware, totally awful to the community |
| 03:34.31 | delt | well, corporations are there to make money |
| 03:34.36 | delt | the opinion of 5% of its market who happen to be smart people doesn't affect their profit margins that much. |
| 03:35.03 | johnx | right. and I try to patronize the companies that will treat me the way I want to be treated |
| 03:35.16 | johnx | sometimes that even goes as far as recommending their products |
| 03:36.06 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@ip-83-134-171-206.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 03:36.17 | johnx | anyways, AFAIK, Nokia is currently one of the most (if not *the* most) open-source friendly phone maker right now |
| 03:36.59 | delt | like nvidia for 3d cards... which isnt saying much |
| 03:37.19 | delt | put out an open source driver so they can claim "Hey, we're open source!!" |
| 03:37.32 | wmarone | delt: don't you mean ATI? |
| 03:37.37 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: yeah, since OM not really *makes* phones any more |
| 03:37.39 | wmarone | nvidia hasn't put out anything, iirc |
| 03:38.11 | delt | ati's open source drivers are a joke. some 3rd party project tried to make some deceont ones iirc... havent been following that story for years |
| 03:38.31 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, yeah, I was careful to say 'currently'. I really hope to see either more from OM or another OM-like startup |
| 03:38.45 | DocScrutinizer | qi-hardware |
| 03:38.53 | nox- | nvidia's drivers aren't open source either, just the `wrapper' parts are that link to a binary blob |
| 03:39.00 | delt | anyway, at least nv's open src drivers got better over the next few years |
| 03:39.00 | DocScrutinizer | OM is 'dead' |
| 03:39.02 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, mmmm...I *am* looking for good things out of them :) |
| 03:39.39 | johnx | delt, the story is a lot like it used to be when I bought an original Radeon |
| 03:40.30 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, aaah, it's super confusing to also have a company called pixel-qi that does small runs of hardware aimed at enthusiasts |
| 03:40.32 | DocScrutinizer | hmm a bit of advertising can't hurt - /join #qi-hardware |
| 03:40.34 | delt | had my geforce 6600gt for like 6 or 7 years... havent been playing games much recently |
| 03:41.02 | delt | mainly because of my concentration issues getting worse these past few years |
| 03:41.20 | johnx | delt, 6600 here. :) might get a new video card early next year |
| 03:42.24 | delt | in first person shooters, by the time i get warmed up enough to play decently, my coordination skills are already going down fast, heh :/ |
| 03:42.44 | DocScrutinizer | http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Main_Page |
| 03:43.22 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, yeah. the nanonote. I was actually looking at that, around the 4th or 5th time delays were announced in pandora production |
| 03:43.48 | johnx | 32MB RAM / 336MHz MIPS doesn't quite do it for me though :| |
| 03:44.11 | DocScrutinizer | yeah it's really 'cheap' hardware |
| 03:44.32 | johnx | looks really pretty though |
| 03:44.47 | johnx | in comparison my pandora is a terrifying ugly thing |
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| 03:46.32 | delt | ok, now i really need to sleep... thanks for the help everyone zZzZ |
| 03:46.38 | johnx | 'night delt |
| 03:46.46 | delt | nite |
| 03:46.48 | *** part/#maemo delt (1000@ftp.deimos.ca) |
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| 03:52.49 | CreamyG | jesus my 5 year old laptop had a 6600 |
| 03:53.03 | CreamyG | i think it could play far cry |
| 03:53.33 | wmarone | and not much more :) |
| 03:54.05 | wmarone | my old system had a 6600GT too, except it was an MSI whose fan stopped operating while the card was going full tilt :( |
| 03:54.36 | johnx | my 6600 is fanless |
| 03:54.48 | johnx | major selling point at the time. that and it was $50 from woot |
| 03:54.54 | wmarone | heh |
| 03:55.04 | wmarone | yeah the fanless designs were impressive but scary to me |
| 03:55.11 | wmarone | that and my case couldn't fit the massive heatsink on it |
| 03:55.26 | CreamyG | hey anyone got an idea on this? i am trying to build something with ESbox, its trying to chmod autogen.sh and says "Value too large for defined data type". that is only supposed to happen if you run 32-bit OS and throw it a 4GB file or something |
| 03:55.59 | johnx | wmarone, oh, mine is actually a single slot design. really compact actually, though it was one of the later 6600 cards I think |
| 03:56.21 | CreamyG | damn i had a fanless radeon 9700 |
| 03:56.45 | CreamyG | bought like this gigantic two slabs of aluminum and a big heatpipe to connect them |
| 03:57.04 | wmarone | johnx: must've, friend of mine had a fanless and it had a huge heatsink on both sides of the card |
| 03:57.18 | CreamyG | pretty sweet to have a high end card running silent |
| 03:57.39 | CreamyG | now i water cool. but that's a pain... |
| 03:57.47 | johnx | CreamyG, hmm, as to the problem. are you in ARMEL mode? |
| 03:58.22 | CreamyG | i tried both armel and x86 as build targets and it fails. if i do it manually from scratchbox it works (past that anyways) |
| 03:58.44 | CreamyG | its making an ssh connection and doing stuff using mounted remote shares or something f'ed up and confusing |
| 03:58.58 | CreamyG | but the funny thing is i just told it to "pakcage a deb" and it did that fine |
| 03:59.19 | johnx | ah, right, esbox |
| 03:59.27 | CreamyG | i really hate computers, and these damn tools they make to simplify things |
| 03:59.43 | CreamyG | it is like 3 days work to set up the build environment i swear |
| 03:59.57 | CreamyG | maybe i'm just dumb :P |
| 04:00.01 | johnx | nah |
| 04:00.19 | johnx | I started my own linux distro rather than mess with scratchbox |
| 04:01.00 | CreamyG | yeah it helps if you know what you're doing to begin with. i keep learning new stuff that is probably really obvious. |
| 04:01.46 | CreamyG | oh well it's probably better use of my time than getting more gamerscore on my xbox |
| 04:01.59 | johnx | even given that you know how to use binfmt_misc to make qemu run foreign arch binaries for you, nothing scratchbox does is 'obvious' or 'intuitive' |
| 04:02.19 | johnx | do you really need esbox? or will plain scratchbox work? |
| 04:02.45 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-094-216-253-025.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:02.51 | CreamyG | i already was using scratchbox, and then i thought, hey, i'd like to use eclipse instead of a normal text editor (ultraedit) |
| 04:03.08 | johnx | bet that normal text editor looks awfully nice right now |
| 04:03.13 | CreamyG | and the tutorial to set it up was for ESbox so i figured it might be cool if it can compile for me... |
| 04:03.20 | CreamyG | yeah |
| 04:03.30 | CreamyG | i wanted to do remote debugging and stuff if possible |
| 04:03.48 | CreamyG | that stuff never works for me |
| 04:04.04 | johnx | yeah, you have scratchbox working, even *that* never really worked 100% for me |
| 04:04.29 | johnx | is this for maemo 4 or maemo 5. BTW? |
| 04:04.32 | CreamyG | even microsoft, for visual studio, needs security certificts, domain names, all sorts of pain |
| 04:04.37 | CreamyG | maemo 5 |
| 04:05.38 | johnx | work in scratchbox, use scp to copy binaries to your N900, be happy |
| 04:05.48 | johnx | I think you can get strace for the N900, so there's that at least |
| 04:06.15 | CreamyG | yeah |
| 04:06.36 | CreamyG | at least i got some uhhh convenient mount points for my 3 days work |
| 04:07.10 | johnx | sshfs? |
| 04:07.49 | CreamyG | it made me set up all these samba shares so now i have a c:\maemo that goes into scratchbox |
| 04:07.51 | CreamyG | yayyyy |
| 04:08.10 | johnx | O_o; |
| 04:08.28 | CreamyG | for some reason drag and dropping files into vmware randomly fails... actually its pretty consistently failing. so i guess thats good |
| 04:08.39 | johnx | just uses vim |
| 04:08.51 | johnx | makes some joke a bout 'back in my day ... ' |
| 04:09.16 | CreamyG | haha well whatever works... better than wasting time with these fancy IDEs |
| 04:09.26 | CreamyG | who needs code completion anyways |
| 04:09.28 | CreamyG | cries |
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| 04:10.15 | wmarone | wonders why fedora 12 hates virtualbox's 3D drivers |
| 04:10.18 | johnx | vim has syntax hilighting, and code completion I think |
| 04:10.34 | wmarone | you can give it all that if you want |
| 04:10.42 | johnx | I *rely* on the syntax hilighting for sure |
| 04:11.23 | johnx | I also understand that it's not for everyone |
| 04:12.04 | CreamyG | cool i'll look into that i guess |
| 04:12.25 | johnx | uhm, if you've never used vim ... you might not like it all that much |
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| 04:12.46 | johnx | something like gedit or even emacs might be more interesting for you |
| 04:14.05 | CreamyG | might as well see if i get get the .deb to spit out of ESbox though cuz that looks really close. |
| 04:14.19 | johnx | vim is for people who say things like "Gee, I'm really tired of typing letters and having them appear in a text file. I wish I had to position my cursor with the h, j, k, and l keys then switch into insert mode to do that." |
| 04:14.36 | CreamyG | haha i have used that before |
| 04:15.09 | visz | why should i have to move my right hand 10 centimeters to the right to be able to move the cursor? |
| 04:15.12 | visz | i'm too lazy for that |
| 04:15.31 | johnx | lives in vim :) |
| 04:16.05 | visz | you have insert mode?-) |
| 04:16.36 | johnx | visz, hmm? did I use the wrong term? |
| 04:19.09 | CreamyG | i remember my dad using edlin, i don't think i ever figured that out either |
| 04:19.19 | CreamyG | of course i would have been like 7 |
| 04:19.56 | johnx | my mom tried to teach me DOS at about that age :) |
| 04:20.31 | CreamyG | yeah my dad just had to show me how to play games... he made me all these batch files to load them. |
| 04:20.59 | CreamyG | i swear half the crap i know about computers is probably from figuring out how to play games |
| 04:21.38 | johnx | ahahaha |
| 04:21.40 | johnx | yup |
| 04:21.47 | johnx | it's a good bait and switch, isn't it? |
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| 04:23.53 | CreamyG | yeah it's funny now i have to help my dad play games |
| 04:25.05 | CreamyG | so apparently i got about 20 more years to learn everything |
| 04:25.23 | johnx | ahahaha |
| 04:25.32 | johnx | yeah, good luck with that :) |
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| 04:25.46 | CreamyG | damn that isn't very long... yeah.. i better get this working tonight |
| 04:26.16 | johnx | I have met people who claim to know everything about linux or unix, but those are usually the people who know the least :) |
| 04:27.22 | Termana | You don't need to know everything about linux or unix to do interesting things anyhow ;) |
| 04:27.46 | johnx | for sure :) |
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| 04:28.03 | johnx | and not 'knowing' all the answers can often lead to creative approaches to problems |
| 04:28.12 | johnx | or a lot of pain and wasted time :) |
| 04:28.16 | Termana | :P |
| 04:28.24 | CreamyG | hah yeah |
| 04:28.38 | CreamyG | i wish i worked somewhere where more people used unix |
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| 04:28.50 | CreamyG | it's hard enough to find someone that knows c or c++ |
| 04:28.59 | johnx | send out some job apps :) |
| 04:29.34 | CreamyG | yeah i probably will in a few months, i'm a contractor so i gotta re-apply for my job anyways :| |
| 04:29.55 | raster | CreamyG: go to embedded |
| 04:29.56 | raster | :) |
| 04:29.59 | Termana | Besides, it's not fun if you know EVERYTHING. Constantly learning is what keeps it fun ;) :P |
| 04:30.01 | raster | more linux there |
| 04:30.05 | raster | and more c :) |
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| 04:30.32 | johnx | or get a job as a junior linux sys admin. lots of learning from cranky old unix guys |
| 04:30.41 | CreamyG | haha just because i want to learn it doesn't mean i should try and get a job yet |
| 04:30.49 | CreamyG | i'd probably fail bad lol |
| 04:30.56 | johnx | do you learn quick? |
| 04:30.59 | raster | learning is a bit overrated |
| 04:31.08 | raster | makes u feel like you are moving fowradr |
| 04:31.08 | CreamyG | i only learn by doing |
| 04:31.15 | raster | but invariably accomplishes little for others |
| 04:31.18 | raster | its a very selfish thing |
| 04:31.19 | CreamyG | i can't learn much from reading |
| 04:31.27 | raster | more important is to actually PRODUCE something |
| 04:31.38 | johnx | raster, need to learn before you can teach or produce though :P |
| 04:31.40 | raster | u may or may not leanr a thing or 2 in the process |
| 04:31.50 | johnx | raster, it's like saying eating is selfish |
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| 04:32.02 | raster | johnx: yes. i guess i'm referring to the poeple who leanr a new programming lang every year or 2 |
| 04:32.07 | raster | and contiunually change the langs they use |
| 04:32.14 | raster | or start new projetcs just to use a new lang |
| 04:32.23 | raster | in the end they cycle so much they accomplish little |
| 04:32.27 | raster | they know a little of many langs |
| 04:32.33 | raster | but they are masters of none of them |
| 04:32.36 | johnx | sounds like me |
| 04:32.43 | johnx | jack of all trades, master of none |
| 04:32.53 | raster | you should find 1 u like |
| 04:32.57 | raster | that also is practical |
| 04:32.58 | raster | and stick to it |
| 04:33.03 | raster | become a master of it |
| 04:33.03 | Termana | johnx, :D |
| 04:33.07 | johnx | raster, meh |
| 04:33.09 | raster | u accomplish much more |
| 04:33.18 | raster | in terms of actually producing something |
| 04:33.31 | johnx | my job dictates what I learn |
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| 04:33.56 | johnx | want me to tell my boss "I know all of our projects are in PHP, but I really want to become a master of ruby, so I'm writing my part in ruby." |
| 04:34.09 | johnx | yeah. that'd go over really well |
| 04:34.29 | raster | johnx: u took it the wrong way |
| 04:34.41 | raster | 1 u like that is ALSO practical |
| 04:34.43 | johnx | plus, too many people that only know one thing really well are missing the big picture |
| 04:34.52 | raster | what is practical for u then would be php |
| 04:35.00 | raster | so become a master at it |
| 04:35.11 | raster | onc eu are a master the lang ceases to become a barrier to anything |
| 04:35.30 | johnx | great, but if I want to hack someone else's code to do what I want, and that code is in C, rewriting it in PHP is less practical than learning a bit of C and makign a tweak |
| 04:35.35 | raster | u read code like u read "english" |
| 04:35.42 | raster | u dotn care about comments - the code has all u need. |
| 04:35.59 | johnx | it's all about having a lot of tools to choose from, not how you acquire those tools |
| 04:36.04 | raster | "if you want to" |
| 04:36.10 | johnx | everyone learns to become language agnostic differently |
| 04:36.11 | raster | but do you have to? |
| 04:36.15 | raster | is it part of your every day? |
| 04:36.31 | ds3 | johnx: You'd be surprised how well that goes over |
| 04:36.45 | johnx | ds3, hmm? |
| 04:37.01 | ds3 | johnx: I have cleaned up many projects where that is pretty much what happened |
| 04:37.36 | johnx | people becoming 'language agnostic' and writing python the way they learned to write C? :) |
| 04:37.49 | ds3 | no |
| 04:38.03 | johnx | ah, then I'm lost |
| 04:38.16 | ds3 | so called embedded systems with TCL, Python, bash, sh, and who knows what other scripting langauges |
| 04:38.18 | raster | neing langauge agnostic is like thinking u'll be .. language agnostic |
| 04:38.22 | raster | (as in human language) |
| 04:38.27 | raster | u never will be |
| 04:38.29 | ds3 | all apparently done cause someone thought it was interesting to do it that way |
| 04:38.32 | raster | or very very very very few will be |
| 04:38.37 | raster | everyone will have a preferred lang |
| 04:38.38 | raster | eg english |
| 04:38.40 | raster | or german |
| 04:38.41 | raster | or japanese |
| 04:38.42 | raster | etc. |
| 04:38.50 | raster | they have a native lang they learned first |
| 04:38.54 | raster | or one they simply know best |
| 04:39.16 | raster | very very very few master enough human langs to "be agnostic as to which one they speak/use for anything" |
| 04:39.23 | ds3 | johnx: so just because you ask that, don't assume it'd be rejected outright :D |
| 04:39.58 | johnx | ds3, sounds like most linux distros these days :) so I guess if I plan to use Linux and modify it to do what I want I should probably know a little of everything :D |
| 04:40.22 | raster | nothing wrong with learning a lot of things |
| 04:40.30 | raster | but learnig a lo9t just for the sake of it is not so useful |
| 04:40.44 | raster | and learning a whole lot of langs and not being master of any is not so good either |
| 04:40.48 | raster | at least be the master of 1 |
| 04:40.49 | raster | :) |
| 04:40.58 | johnx | fine. I've mastered bash |
| 04:41.03 | raster | hahahahaha |
| 04:41.05 | raster | :) |
| 04:41.08 | RST38h | g'mornin raster, johnx |
| 04:41.12 | raster | RST38h: booo! |
| 04:41.22 | johnx | RST38h, m00f |
| 04:42.24 | johnx | raster, I'm a sys admin. I hack where I need to, in whatever language is required. I don't have any big outside of work programming projects, so I mainly just use whatever programming language or technology I need to to get the job done |
| 04:43.00 | raster | johnx: i guess being an admin is different. |
| 04:43.30 | johnx | though, besides bash, I'm awfully fond of scheme. I'd love to do more scheme, but I'm not going to invent a project that calls for scheme just to use it |
| 04:43.45 | johnx | my interest is in accomplishing things, not learning programming for its own sake |
| 04:43.49 | RST38h | suggests that knowledge of a particular programming language does not make you a good software developer |
| 04:43.58 | johnx | so I guess I can agree with your original point, but not your second one |
| 04:44.06 | raster | the guys designing/building the cars need much deeper knowledge than the mechanics fixing them up when they break - but the mechanics need to know about more than just the few cars they work on |
| 04:44.11 | raster | as they may get anything into the shop |
| 04:44.13 | RST38h | Knowledge of how to write good software and how to analyze it for faults does |
| 04:44.25 | johnx | raster, thank you! perfect analogy for how I think |
| 04:45.01 | raster | RST38h: lang plays a big part in that |
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| 04:45.08 | raster | as along with lang comes dev/debug env |
| 04:45.09 | raster | and tools |
| 04:45.11 | RST38h | raster:Some part, yes |
| 04:45.17 | raster | will u use gdb? or printf? |
| 04:45.25 | raster | if its python.. u arent going to use gdb |
| 04:45.27 | raster | what do u do? |
| 04:45.33 | raster | werll u can still "printf debug" there |
| 04:45.34 | raster | etc. etc. |
| 04:45.37 | RST38h | raster: printf() works pretty much everywhere |
| 04:45.47 | RST38h | in fact, when you say gdb, I think printf :) |
| 04:45.50 | raster | but in general debugging code well involves knowing the code weell |
| 04:45.52 | johnx | goes off to learn jquery and mongoDB for fun |
| 04:46.21 | ds3 | printf don't work too well if you are just debugging the UART for the output of the printf ;) |
| 04:46.47 | RST38h | ds3: special case |
| 04:47.02 | RST38h | used LEDs. And a beeper. :) |
| 04:47.05 | ds3 | RST38h: depends on your line of work.. some of us bring up boards where that is common |
| 04:48.50 | RST38h | yea, I do that from time to time |
| 04:49.16 | RST38h | but usually, you get *some* printfs :) |
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| 05:01.54 | ds3 | I wish I was that lucky... |
| 05:02.17 | ds3 | I'm happy to get random trash :D |
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| 05:08.56 | RST38h | if you have got at least some video buffer, implementing printfs to it israther easy |
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| 05:14.04 | ds3 | only problem is during those times, the timing of the video signals is uncertain nor is all the enables for it |
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| 05:30.30 | RST38h | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/09/500x_cuban-tree-frog_3627_600x450.jpg |
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| 05:36.59 | asj | RST38h: lol |
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| 05:46.39 | jpinx-eeepc | where are the sms's stored in the filesystem? |
| 05:46.54 | asj | I presume in tracker |
| 05:47.22 | asj | (so looks for a sqllite file somewhere in the homedir I would guess) |
| 05:48.57 | jpinx-eeepc | I asssumed a sql in /home/user , but can't see anything obvious |
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| 05:52.27 | frals | jpinx-eeepc: el.db or similar in ~/.rtcom-eventlogger or something along those lines |
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| 05:53.15 | MrPPS | hey - out of curiosity, does anyone know offhand if GNU screen has been ported to maemo? |
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| 05:56.16 | Khertan | Morning all ! |
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| 05:57.11 | MrPPS | gday Khertan |
| 05:57.53 | Khertan | lbt, are you here ? |
| 05:58.03 | Khertan | hi MrPPS |
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| 06:24.27 | Peyman | I want to scrobble to my last.fm account, which player i shoud use? any suggestion? |
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| 06:29.07 | petteri | Peyman: default player works with last-fmscrobbler installed |
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| 06:35.23 | Peyman | petteri, "E: couldnt find package last-fmscrobbler" |
| 06:36.11 | petteri | hmm.. |
| 06:36.36 | petteri | http://maemo.org/packages/view/mafw-lastfm |
| 06:36.38 | petteri | that one |
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| 06:43.29 | johnx | is compiling a 'database server' that links against xulrunner, is worried slightly |
| 06:43.52 | Stskeeps | like qt that links against gtk.. |
| 06:44.19 | johnx | but only so qt can dance around in gtk's skin and impersonate it |
| 06:44.29 | johnx | which is totally not creepy |
| 06:47.09 | Peyman | ow :) tnx petteri |
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| 07:01.57 | johnx | totally random question: does anyone have experience with MongoDB? |
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| 07:04.00 | pexi | with maemo? |
| 07:04.08 | johnx | just in general |
| 07:04.12 | johnx | off-topic question :) |
| 07:04.44 | pexi | not more than google :) |
| 07:05.12 | johnx | was just curious |
| 07:05.39 | johnx | I'm waiting for it to compile on my server reading the documentation thinking "this is too goo to be true ..." |
| 07:06.08 | pexi | well if u don't need the speed and scalability, it is good |
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| 07:10.07 | johnx | heh. I just wish I knew how much speed and scalability I actually need |
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| 07:10.20 | johnx | and how much I'm just worrying about a future that will never come |
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| 08:28.12 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:30.00 | florian | good morning |
| 08:32.13 | Myrtti | Jaffa: unping, I remember pinging you but I can't remember why anymore |
| 08:32.31 | Myrtti | I also fail in channels. |
| 08:32.35 | Myrtti | more coffee! |
| 08:33.30 | Jaffa | Myrtti: I appreciated feeling wanted, if nothing else ;-) |
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| 08:38.25 | RST38h | moos thoughtfully |
| 08:43.47 | johnx | RST38h, what do you ponder? |
| 08:44.11 | RST38h | johnx: The End. |
| 08:44.14 | RST38h | =) |
| 08:44.22 | johnx | the seattle radio station? |
| 08:44.33 | RST38h | ahha |
| 08:44.51 | johnx | not much to ponder there, though |
| 08:45.07 | RST38h | johnx: Does it broadcast appropriate content, or is it only the name? =) |
| 08:45.21 | johnx | uhm, it's mostly alternative stuff |
| 08:45.33 | johnx | but it's 107.7 so it's 'the end' of the dial |
| 08:45.37 | johnx | back when radios had dials |
| 08:46.22 | johnx | so no, they don't generally talk about how the world will end in december 2012 (right?) |
| 08:46.23 | RST38h | tries to remember if FM radios ever had dials...actually yes, they did =) |
| 08:46.34 | kerio | this is the end... |
| 08:46.34 | kerio | my only friend, the end... |
| 08:46.36 | *** join/#maemo polymar (~polymar@82.210.249.81) |
| 08:46.40 | RST38h | Why wait until until december 2012 |
| 08:46.51 | merlin1991 | yeah 2012 will end then |
| 08:46.57 | merlin1991 | no chance avoiding that |
| 08:47.24 | johnx | RST38h, I need a couple more years to figure out how to get off this rock if everyone's hell bent on things coming to a screeching halt ... |
| 08:49.27 | RST38h | johnx: Once you get off, what are you gonna do? Outside is dark and cold and empty and may well be just a glorified wall of a fish tank |
| 08:50.05 | johnx | haven't gotten to planning that part yet |
| 08:55.36 | RST38h | johnx: planning switch from it to sw development, btw? |
| 08:56.06 | johnx | I already did kinda |
| 08:56.15 | johnx | I'm about half and half |
| 08:56.41 | johnx | webdev stuff. a lot of people here probably wouldn't consider it 'real' development :P |
| 08:57.11 | RST38h | naaah, not hard enough :) |
| 08:57.27 | johnx | XSL. I rest my case |
| 08:57.55 | johnx | I agree. it doesn't *need* to be hard, but we find a way *rolls eyes* |
| 08:59.02 | merlin1991 | hrhr |
| 08:59.37 | merlin1991 | well you could put webservices into "webdev" too, and depending on what you want to achieve it can be pretty hard |
| 09:00.15 | johnx | it's basically an internal scheduling/resource/time-tracking/CRM/sales app |
| 09:00.18 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
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| 09:01.09 | RST38h | johnx: *avoid* XSL |
| 09:01.26 | RST38h | johnx: No, really. It is the most useless time waste I have ever done |
| 09:01.41 | johnx | no kidding |
| 09:01.50 | johnx | luckily only one of our 'sites' uses it |
| 09:01.56 | johnx | unluckily that site is customer facing |
| 09:02.08 | johnx | ... and needs to be updated/revised sometimes |
| 09:02.09 | RST38h | johnx: Replace with PERL script asap |
| 09:02.24 | johnx | not an option. anyways, it's not *that* bad |
| 09:02.27 | johnx | just a bit ... weird |
| 09:02.43 | RST38h | (and yes, I am fully aware of how not ideal this solution is, but still better than XSL) |
| 09:02.43 | johnx | the PHP templating system they insist on using is almost as weird as XSL really |
| 09:03.28 | RST38h | Really? Must have taken them time to approach such a pinnacle... |
| 09:04.02 | johnx | http://ets.sourceforge.net/ |
| 09:04.10 | johnx | actually, it's unmaintained for 6 years :) |
| 09:05.44 | RST38h | johnx: mhm, kinda xmlish, but not as bad as xsl :) |
| 09:06.09 | johnx | just one more *&#$ing dead-end syntax to memorize |
| 09:08.09 | johnx | I don't mind weird syntax, but PHP is a *#&$#ing templating language. That's it's whole reason for existing |
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| 09:13.08 | RST38h | johnx: Yes, but there is no fun in that! :) |
| 09:13.17 | RST38h | [also see: build systems] |
| 09:14.06 | johnx | it's very fun. I write some things and they show up on the screen. I was kinda thinking this web dev stuff was kinda fun except for this useless (#*$&ing template system |
| 09:14.16 | johnx | had to start learning it in-depth today |
| 09:14.23 | johnx | totally not bitter. not even a bit |
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| 09:16.09 | timeless_pidgin | Anyone here having trouble reaching gmail w/ microb? |
| 09:17.25 | timeless_pidgin | Data Transfer Interrupted |
| 09:17.25 | timeless_pidgin | The connection to mail.google.com has terminated unexpectedly. Some data may have been transferred. |
| 09:17.25 | timeless_pidgin | The browser connected successfully, but the connection was interrupted while transferring information. Please try again. |
| 09:17.25 | timeless_pidgin | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:17.25 | timeless_pidgin | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:17.35 | johnx | timeless, works for me |
| 09:17.50 | timeless_pidgin | K |
| 09:17.58 | RST38h | So, have you consulted your network administrator? |
| 09:18.02 | johnx | spam :| |
| 09:18.09 | RST38h | I mean, before pasting it here... |
| 09:18.26 | johnx | hint: he doesn't mean me :) |
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| 09:19.20 | RST38h | Mohammad has booted Ubuntu mobile edition on his N900 |
| 09:19.21 | johnx | I need a similar disclaimer to what lawyers use "I am a net admin. I'm not *your* net admin, therefore this doesn't constitute a recommended workaround ... " |
| 09:19.36 | johnx | RST38h, cool. working GLES? |
| 09:19.37 | RST38h | Looks pretty nice too |
| 09:19.42 | RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58083 |
| 09:19.59 | RST38h | Dunno, do not think GLES will be a problem. BME and phone will be though |
| 09:20.05 | johnx | RAM usage as well :) |
| 09:20.14 | johnx | that's the 'netbook' interface |
| 09:20.18 | johnx | so full gnome |
| 09:20.32 | Stskeeps | BME isn't so much a problem if you have a linux glibc |
| 09:20.34 | johnx | it's mostly ok with 512MB of RAM |
| 09:20.51 | johnx | looks very pretty in screenshots though |
| 09:21.11 | johnx | is soooo glad he didn't wait for ubuntu to do their own 'handheld' interface |
| 09:23.47 | RST38h | johnx: Ubuntu netbook stuff looks ok to me |
| 09:24.05 | RST38h | Stskeeps: GLES stuff is just a few libs that can be dropped in, right? |
| 09:24.21 | Stskeeps | fairly easily to adapt |
| 09:24.41 | johnx | RST38h, it's ok that it will want to take 512MB of RAM to boot to the desktop? |
| 09:24.45 | Stskeeps | but he has to be on 2.6.35 |
| 09:24.52 | johnx | on a device with 256MB of RAM ... |
| 09:24.53 | Stskeeps | both for gles and bme |
| 09:25.05 | RST38h | johnx: Well I am not going to use it so it is ok :) |
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| 09:25.29 | johnx | RST38h, yeah. this is basically where I was with XFCE4 on the N8x0 3 (dear god it really is 3) years ago |
| 09:25.47 | Stskeeps | johnx: have you regained your sanity yet? |
| 09:26.07 | RST38h | heh |
| 09:26.09 | johnx | dunno. I'm working on yet another forked distro it seems |
| 09:26.12 | johnx | not a good sign |
| 09:26.17 | johnx | :P |
| 09:26.23 | RST38h | Sts: He is doing XSL so it is arhetorical question |
| 09:26.54 | johnx | I'd like to think I'm relatively sane compared to other people who can hack around in XSL |
| 09:27.01 | johnx | that'd be a good point on my resume ... |
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| 09:38.08 | smhar | how to take a snap shot of the N900 screen? |
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| 09:42.34 | marmoute | smhar: use two mirror and the internal camera |
| 09:42.43 | Appiah | haha |
| 09:43.04 | Appiah | ctrl+shift+p |
| 09:44.23 | smhar | Appiah, very difficult combinations, I have big figures :-) |
| 09:44.39 | Appiah | not that hard |
| 09:44.55 | Appiah | Use both hands :) |
| 09:45.29 | Appiah | place it down , dont hold it ^^ |
| 09:47.41 | smhar | Appiah, managed, thanks |
| 09:47.57 | Appiah | well its a keycombo you dont do by accident |
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| 09:57.32 | Khertan | ~seen lbt |
| 09:57.36 | infobot | lbt is currently on #maemo (17h 53m 50s) #meego (17h 53m 50s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 1h 24m 51s, last said: 'hey Jaffa'. |
| 09:57.53 | lbt | hey Khertan |
| 09:58.45 | Khertan | :) |
| 09:58.49 | Khertan | hi lbt |
| 09:58.55 | Khertan | i ve a question about the obs |
| 09:59.07 | Khertan | is it possible to create new target ? |
| 09:59.41 | Khertan | the qt version available in the meego current is still an preview 4.7 release |
| 09:59.53 | Khertan | and contain bugs that prevent me compiling pyside |
| 09:59.56 | lbt | ah, a fresh import? |
| 10:00.43 | lbt | nag me in ~8hrs (after work) :) |
| 10:01.04 | lbt | xfade is on hols so .... |
| 10:01.21 | Khertan | ah, a fresh import? <<< i didn't know how to do an import |
| 10:01.28 | Khertan | and if i can do it :) |
| 10:01.33 | lbt | no, OS level |
| 10:01.37 | Khertan | ok i ll bother you later ;) |
| 10:01.49 | Khertan | s/bother/borring |
| 10:02.27 | lbt | does not want to be borringed ! |
| 10:05.03 | DocScrutinizer | Method: Fractional Transfer STV with Droop-Static-Whole threshold -- pfft, if I had known that 3 months before elections, I probably had managed to know what exactly I'm voting (guess it takes 3 months to wrap your head around it) |
| 10:05.16 | Khertan | :) |
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| 10:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, I live in Bavaria - check for all the election systems we got here. I know about situations where you have to vote for the one you basically don't want to see in your government |
| 10:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | I hope next council elections will get more lead time to inform people, to check candidates, to sort out token shipping (what if somebody is is holiday for 2 weeks?) |
| 10:13.13 | ieatlint | how bad can bavaria be? where i live, we vote on average 2 to 3 times a year, and typically there are 10-20+ things on the ballot |
| 10:13.24 | ieatlint | in 2008, there were 4 elections |
| 10:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | c'mon 443 ballots total - that's a shame and you have to think about the why and how to improve |
| 10:14.30 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: on some elections we could make 60+ checkmarks on the ballot |
| 10:14.31 | ieatlint | yeah, how about having candidates put together a short bio to actually read... i think only one candidate even said a word on a blog that was aggregated by planet.maemo.org |
| 10:15.06 | DocScrutinizer | it's caled "panachieren & kumulieren" |
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| 10:15.49 | ieatlint | oh, check marks are different :P |
| 10:16.16 | ieatlint | the last election here, had things like "city council" where you're given a list of 30 names and asked to check 12 of them |
| 10:16.18 | DocScrutinizer | when you give candidate #5 of party A 4 votes, as the first 4 candidates will make it anyway |
| 10:20.40 | DocScrutinizer | so e.g. a vote for jaffa might be wasted if you think he'll make it anyway into council, and you have to think about using your votes more specific than let them be redsitributed from jaffa to the other candidates by"Fractional Transfer STV with Droop-Static-Whole threshold" |
| 10:21.08 | RST38h | too complicated |
| 10:21.25 | RST38h | But I would like to see the "Against all candidates" option on the ballot |
| 10:21.28 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~Jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 10:21.42 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: then speak up for another system to evaluate ballots |
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| 10:22.15 | SpeedEvil | is reminded of http://xkcd.com/429/ |
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| 10:25.07 | sobczyk | hi, anyone knows what's th n900 wifi chip is? |
| 10:25.30 | Stskeeps | wl1251 |
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| 10:28.23 | RST38h | "Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says" |
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| 10:29.10 | ieatlint | heh, and coincidentally, atheists and agnostics most likely to be intelligent/educated |
| 10:30.34 | |187| | damn i love this phone - just sittin at a lake and havin a beer :) |
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| 10:32.18 | merlin1991 | err |187| sittin @ a lake and havin a beer, sure, but stare into your phone there? |
| 10:33.03 | |187| | jup gotta mail some shit |
| 10:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: johnx: life could be easy if only I had access to the sourcecode |
| 10:33.27 | |187| | display could be one size bigger |
| 10:33.35 | |187| | :) |
| 10:33.38 | merlin1991 | doc, the sourcecode, the sourceode of life? ;) |
| 10:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 10:34.13 | |187| | + the damn battery drain.. |
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| 10:34.39 | DocScrutinizer | ??? |
| 10:35.04 | |187| | was readin about some pr 1.3 .. is that confirmed somewhere? |
| 10:35.14 | DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 |
| 10:35.14 | infobot | rumour has it, pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... |
| 10:35.23 | SpeedEvil | Alas, no. |
| 10:35.33 | |187| | ok |
| 10:35.37 | SpeedEvil | there are bits of updated code popping up in various repos |
| 10:35.40 | |187| | nevermind ?) |
| 10:35.43 | SpeedEvil | but nothing like a schedule |
| 10:36.10 | DocScrutinizer | there NEVER is a schedule, you know? |
| 10:36.39 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia isn't doing schedules - they dams sure know why |
| 10:36.41 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@212.144.117.125) |
| 10:37.08 | SpeedEvil | because they want to be able to drop it if they decide not to release. |
| 10:37.26 | DocScrutinizer | for example |
| 10:37.36 | |187| | always lave the doors open to all sides |
| 10:38.03 | DocScrutinizer | other reasons might include "it's more work to estimate how long a task takes than to do the task" |
| 10:38.49 | DocScrutinizer | announced events tend to get spoiled by competitors |
| 10:39.19 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:39.58 | DocScrutinizer | nothing is worse than a bitching customer waiting for a scheduled date and then find himself on a delay |
| 10:40.13 | *** part/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | and other rationales |
| 10:41.25 | DocScrutinizer | what's the use of a schedule anyway? |
| 10:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I fail to see a single benefit |
| 10:44.51 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (want to be able) do you think if they published a schedule they would decide differently? They just get more flames when nevertheless dropping |
| 10:47.17 | DocScrutinizer | au contraire Nokia kicking off and participating in something like that tmo PR1.2 thread might actually cause delays in and maybe even drop of development |
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| 10:49.07 | DocScrutinizer | the nice bonmot "don't ask! each time it gets asked about, they postpone it for another week" isn't complete nonsense ;-) |
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| 10:50.39 | tobis87 | Hi, I know it will take some time until source code will become availible of the injection driver. I don't have the binaries, but would there be a way to patch them to work with the default kernel? |
| 10:51.53 | tobis87 | Would changing vermagic be enough to load them or is there some integrity check in kernel modules? |
| 10:52.04 | jaska | hmm, something up wit repository.maemo.org extras repo, ham is whining about subprocess gzip returned an error code |
| 10:53.19 | tobis87 | And could they be used as drop-in replacement or do they have to be inserted manuelly? |
| 10:53.34 | *** join/#maemo ptlo (~senko@213.147.102.234) |
| 10:53.42 | ShadowJK | jaska, I'm getting gzip error codes for sdk tools repo |
| 10:53.59 | jaska | gzip errors on extras repos for me :| |
| 10:54.02 | jaska | (on phone) |
| 10:55.13 | jaska | ;file Packages.gz |
| 10:55.13 | jaska | Packages.gz: HTML document text |
| 10:55.14 | jaska | hmm. |
| 10:56.05 | jaska | http://sprunge.us/DGXK |
| 10:56.08 | jaska | gives me that |
| 10:56.43 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: if changing vermagic is enough, then you also could use modprobe --force |
| 10:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | instead |
| 10:57.41 | jaska | same with Packages.. but Packages.bz2 gives the "real" file |
| 10:58.01 | DocScrutinizer | if they were insane enough to change the ABI in a non compatible way, then too bad |
| 10:58.14 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:59.34 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, mxr brken, repos broken. I wonder what's going on behind the scenes there |
| 10:59.45 | jaska | shakes fist :| |
| 11:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | maybe a gift for new council, to make them feel welcome |
| 11:00.44 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 11:01.22 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: Does the modprobe on the n900 support it? Would you not have to load them manuell everytime? Yes, if the ABI is different I'm out of luck, but I don't have them yet I just ask in advance. |
| 11:01.53 | jaska | wouldnt have noticed but someone actually sent me an mms and the fmms i had was old and didnt work :) |
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| 11:02.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | sorry I can't answer in advance. But I asked exactly same thing to guys who own the binary |
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| 11:11.34 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer51: Ok, I will wait for the source then. But I would already be lucky to have what crashhandie suggested, the driver as source with the injection stuff as inline asm. Just out of curious if I overwrite the vermagic string 2.6.28.10power40-wl1 with 2.6.28-omap1, should I override the rest with 00's or delete the remaining characters? |
| 11:12.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | no idea |
| 11:13.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | usually overwriting end of string storage area with 0x00 is 'the right thing' |
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| 11:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | depends on the used string type. For C it's 0x00 terminated. But there are other implementations with length pointer word at head of string |
| 11:21.35 | satmd | there's languages that don't even have that |
| 11:21.43 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer51: Ok, I will try to fiddle a bit with vermagic. I still remember that I had overwritten sv_cheats in Sof2.exe with 0x00's years ago. :) |
| 11:21.55 | satmd | remembers some sun with SAP's R3 language |
| 11:22.01 | satmd | -sun+fun |
| 11:22.34 | satmd | fixed length strings that can overrun the buffer, overflowing into the next variable |
| 11:22.38 | jaska | repos do work if you pull the debs by hand so no biggie |
| 11:22.58 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* |
| 11:23.42 | satmd | (the story was about a string being to short 1 char, containing "wednesdaY"... the Y became the answer for the next Y/N question, f'cking up the accounting system if the 15th of a month was a wednesday) |
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| 11:32.06 | sivang | so far for auto-upgrading kernels, 9.04 update-manager took me to a non-pae kernel after I specifically install one a couple of upgrades before |
| 11:32.21 | sivang | anyway, at least I can go back to tinkering with USB networking |
| 11:32.54 | sivang | g'afternoon |
| 11:32.56 | sivang | all |
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| 11:37.14 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 11:37.17 | *** join/#maemo ag0ny (~sascha@khan.procar.de) |
| 11:37.23 | DocScrutinizer | satmd: really nice one |
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| 11:39.20 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: what did I miss? :) |
| 11:39.43 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: the link in topic to chanlogs? :-P |
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| 11:42.02 | DocScrutinizer | or this month's 15th? |
| 11:43.18 | *** join/#maemo vkvraju (87f5a822@gateway/web/freenode/ip.135.245.168.34) |
| 11:43.29 | vkvraju | hi |
| 11:45.27 | Arkenoi | even blackberry playbook has flash 10. it is amazing how nokia managed to suck so ultimately. |
| 11:47.40 | Appiah | is it troll time? |
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| 11:49.21 | vkvraju | does blackberry playbook has terminal with root access? |
| 11:49.35 | vkvraju | does it dual-boot? |
| 11:51.07 | kerio | dual? |
| 11:51.15 | vkvraju | regarding flash, I am optimistic about it in the next firmware (PR 1.3) update. Even if not, I won't be that disappointed |
| 11:51.16 | DocScrutinizer | hmmpf |
| 11:51.29 | kerio | we have 4 working-ish OSes that can boot on the n900 |
| 11:51.40 | kerio | ~pr1.3 |
| 11:51.40 | infobot | it has been said that pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... |
| 11:51.41 | vkvraju | yeah, I should have said multi-boot actually. my mistake |
| 11:52.19 | vkvraju | btw, how abt the USB Host Mode thing. Did anyone try it out here? |
| 11:52.36 | SpeedEvil | It works for some people. |
| 11:52.39 | SpeedEvil | With some devices. |
| 11:52.48 | SpeedEvil | It is a fundamentally unreliable method. |
| 11:53.17 | vkvraju | oh, so there is some progress on this front then. Thats amazig |
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| 12:02.25 | DocScrutinizer | there's ""always been progress"" :-P admittedly at a non measurable rate sometimes - like on geotectonics |
| 12:04.16 | DocScrutinizer | but the recent "progress" is just replay of the "great progress" that triggered "USB host mode (coming soon)" tmo thread, though on a wider 'user'-basis - which is exactly what leads directly to same headache we had when primary hostmode tmo thread was closed |
| 12:04.55 | merlin1991 | tmo is evil |
| 12:05.52 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 12:07.08 | vkvraju | I wish to see a fully implemented host mode solution for the N900. I miss that feature from N800 |
| 12:07.23 | Duckboot | Har dere mista cookien? |
| 12:07.28 | vkvraju | copying stuff from pendrives on the go is really useful |
| 12:07.36 | Duckboot | Sorry #fail |
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| 12:16.47 | nuovodna | hi, anyone buyed from this site http://nokia-n900.com/ ?? Is it safe? |
| 12:18.31 | Stskeeps | don't know, but i wouldn't buy stuff from a blog.. |
| 12:20.01 | joga | my rule of thumb concerning buying is that either they're well established or I know where they live |
| 12:20.04 | joga | :) |
| 12:20.10 | SpeedEvil | Are they actually selling? |
| 12:20.17 | DocScrutinizer | the current hype caused some real progress though: I finally accepted nobody but me seems to look into that magic spell that's echoing random commands to usb sysfs debug nodes while randomly wiggling with VBUS and bme. So, as I got logs of a successful session now, I had a look into it, learned it's absolutely not what we planned to do, learned it's actually proving feasibility of the fake-HNP fallback alternative, though it's done on mere |
| 12:20.18 | DocScrutinizer | cargo cult programming here, and finally took a new effort to implement proper hostmode poc via sane cmds to same sysfs nodes, which seems to succeed or at least showed quite encouraging results so far |
| 12:20.23 | SpeedEvil | you missed out 'know where they live, and can take them in a fight' |
| 12:20.42 | SpeedEvil | Woo! |
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| 12:22.41 | sivang | hmm, so ubuntu keeps crashing :/ |
| 12:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | my big failure was to assume with that initial success back in may(? my part in the whole opeation would've been mostly done and others would take over now |
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| 12:23.52 | DocScrutinizer | this never happened though |
| 12:24.53 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: you mean, the maemo project? |
| 12:25.05 | DocScrutinizer | I mean hostmode h-e-n |
| 12:26.21 | sivang | ah,, that one. |
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| 12:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | my current guess is we're some 2..4 week from a really stable hostmode (basic function to kick N900 into host role) and then it's all a simple port-the-drivers after that, like on every other linux system |
| 12:31.12 | DocScrutinizer | but don't quote me on that |
| 12:31.32 | SpeedEvil | slashdots DocScrutinizer. |
| 12:31.40 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
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| 12:31.58 | SpeedEvil | I hate the fact I've had no time to do stuff this year. |
| 12:32.08 | SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/5027602679/#/photos/14560445@N08/5027602679/lightbox/ |
| 12:32.12 | SpeedEvil | related pic is related. |
| 12:34.08 | kerio | woah wtf is that |
| 12:34.29 | marmoute | SpeedEvil: ho a bridge in a garden. Nice but useless |
| 12:34.51 | SpeedEvil | yeah - well - it wasn't my idea. |
| 12:35.04 | SpeedEvil | kerio: I'm tidying up all the stuff below the tarp. |
| 12:35.09 | SpeedEvil | It got thrown in there. |
| 12:35.23 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@77.31.0.12) |
| 12:35.42 | sivang | SpeedEvil: wow |
| 12:35.56 | sivang | SpeedEvil: but that much less than what my dad has in his yard... |
| 12:36.07 | SpeedEvil | That is one tiny part. |
| 12:36.26 | sivang | SpeedEvil: the grass is so green in the UK.. |
| 12:36.37 | SpeedEvil | Scotland. |
| 12:36.40 | SpeedEvil | We do rain well. |
| 12:36.47 | sivang | SpeedEvil: ah, even better, |
| 12:37.11 | mece | SpeedEvil, is that your yard? |
| 12:37.15 | sivang | SpeedEvil: you at least has grass, the ground in my father's yard is full of scrap metal and old jeep parts. |
| 12:37.16 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 12:37.39 | sivang | I would be in to come and help tidying , Edinburgh? |
| 12:37.58 | SpeedEvil | Naah - I'm actually mostly finished on the outside. |
| 12:38.00 | mece | SpeedEvil, wow the place looks amazing! |
| 12:38.15 | mece | SpeedEvil, well, except for the mess, but other than that. |
| 12:38.22 | sivang | SpeedEvil: indeed. people don't appreciate the rain enough :) |
| 12:38.31 | sivang | SpeedEvil: the grass looks tasty |
| 12:38.33 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.59.114.94) |
| 12:38.34 | SpeedEvil | Mum passed on last year, and I've been trying to get the garden into a sane state. It had been largely neglected other than major projects in the past few years. |
| 12:38.45 | SpeedEvil | All of the flowers I haven't touched. |
| 12:38.51 | SpeedEvil | I don't know what most are. |
| 12:39.01 | SpeedEvil | That's for next year. |
| 12:39.17 | sivang | SpeedEvil: oh, sorry to hear. |
| 12:39.37 | sivang | wow, http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/5028190910/lightbox/ |
| 12:39.56 | visz | hair cows |
| 12:40.05 | SpeedEvil | They are picturesque. Highland Cattle. |
| 12:40.16 | SpeedEvil | Not mine. |
| 12:40.22 | sivang | loves Scotland |
| 12:40.29 | sivang | the airport is so cute and small |
| 12:40.50 | visz | http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs183.snc1/6088_1156482441944_1524226484_384066_4921771_n.jpg <- me feeding a hair cow |
| 12:40.57 | SpeedEvil | I hadn't really looked at that closely. |
| 12:41.02 | visz | in scotland |
| 12:41.06 | SpeedEvil | The lighting on the bull works quite well. |
| 12:41.22 | sivang | their hair cut is reminding me Rod Stewart |
| 12:42.04 | SpeedEvil | I suspect it's probably a steer not a bull, I diddn't closely inspect. |
| 12:44.01 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@196.221.201.68) |
| 12:44.22 | *** join/#maemo delt (1000@ftp.deimos.ca) |
| 12:44.29 | delt | Hello again |
| 12:45.18 | delt | hey, was wondering, on the n810 |
| 12:46.05 | delt | would it be possible to use the 2GB flash as root (ext2/3fs) and completely forget about the 256 "internal" partition? |
| 12:46.15 | Stskeeps | yes, search for clone to sd |
| 12:47.11 | delt | problem i'm having is that the internal 2gb doesn't get mounted until the graphic interface shows up |
| 12:47.29 | delt | if it's a fixed, internal storage device, wtf? |
| 12:48.32 | delt | unless they just copied the same config files from the older one (n800?) and didnt bother to change the fstab & whatever |
| 12:48.53 | ShadowJK | Stskeeps, is gypsy-daemon closed or open? |
| 12:49.03 | Stskeeps | open, afaik |
| 12:49.31 | ShadowJK | is trying to debug external gps |
| 12:49.37 | delt | ...which would be possible, seeing that the internal 2gb is "mmc1" and the sd slot is "mmc2" |
| 12:49.44 | delt | s/possible/probable/ |
| 12:49.57 | delt | oh yeah, the smart sed-bot =-) |
| 12:50.27 | delt | always corrects what we... sed :D |
| 12:50.52 | MNZ | well sed delt! |
| 12:52.03 | delt | hehe |
| 12:52.40 | delt | yeah, was thinking about 08:46 < delt> [...] use the 2GB flash as root (ext2/3fs) and completely forget about the 256 "internal" partition |
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| 12:53.09 | delt | mainly so that if some shit like this happens again, i can at least mount it and correct the problem without flashing the OS to the n810 again |
| 12:53.59 | delt | and erasing everything |
| 12:56.45 | delt | (mount it from the PC i mean) - i just learned yesterday that enabling "rd mode" makes the 2gb partition show up as a storage device through USB |
| 12:57.00 | sivang | notes clearly N900 is not built for filesystem intensive operations. |
| 12:58.41 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@192.117.23.51.static.012.net.il) |
| 13:00.20 | delt | sivang nice name... are you from Cambodia? |
| 13:00.50 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-150-115.inter.net.il) |
| 13:00.57 | delt | next guess, burma (birman) or laos |
| 13:01.09 | sivang | delt: actually no, Israel. Why nice? Some Indian people told me there's something close to that name there, and in japan they have "Shiban-san" |
| 13:01.37 | sivang | delt: the name of 5th month in the hebrew calander |
| 13:02.02 | delt | oh. nisan is which month? |
| 13:02.10 | delt | (i dont remember them) |
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| 13:03.31 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-150-115.inter.net.il) |
| 13:03.46 | delt | sivang resembles the name of a girl i knew in college, and in laos, family names that begin or end with "vong" (or sometimes vang but not often) are quite common |
| 13:03.49 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (~mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin) |
| 13:04.24 | delt | so, was just curious |
| 13:04.35 | sivang | delt: ah, well the 'g |
| 13:04.41 | sivang | delt: is actually for my surname |
| 13:04.43 | sivang | : |
| 13:04.44 | sivang | :) |
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| 13:07.00 | delt | ah i see. thats why google found like 2 matches for +"jewish calendar" +sivang +nisan |
| 13:07.26 | delt | s/sivang/sivan, and ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar |
| 13:07.40 | delt | / |
| 13:08.09 | delt | (so that the bot doesnt repeat after me, and a \ would have just looked retarded there) |
| 13:09.08 | sivang | delt: exaclty |
| 13:10.25 | delt | so sivan (or siwan) is the 3rd month in the ancient hebrew calendar |
| 13:10.53 | sivang | 3rd? |
| 13:10.59 | sivang | okay, I don't recall correclty :) |
| 13:10.59 | ShadowJK | wonders if search on mxr.maemo.org is broken |
| 13:11.07 | sivang | how do I disable damn tracker? |
| 13:11.14 | sivang | it kills my rsync process |
| 13:11.21 | sivang | well, not kills, but makes it never eding |
| 13:11.52 | merlin1991 | killall -9 trackerd :D |
| 13:12.00 | sivang | merlin1991: it gets back on |
| 13:12.05 | sivang | thorogh the DSME? |
| 13:12.15 | delt | .... /etc/inittab? |
| 13:12.40 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 13:12.57 | delt | cpt_maemo |
| 13:13.02 | delt | went away..... 5 4 3 2 1 |
| 13:13.13 | MohammadAG51 | stop trackerd? |
| 13:13.20 | *** join/#maemo gnuton (~gnuton@nat/nokia/x-zwlaqjdymwlbycun) |
| 13:14.27 | delt | ok, gonna be back later today, i have some (non-nokia-tablet-related) stuff to prepare |
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| 13:18.22 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 13:19.57 | crashanddie | hey guys, what's the name of that app that calculates the worth of some source code again? |
| 13:20.06 | flux | sloccount |
| 13:20.34 | crashanddie | thanks |
| 13:20.56 | jacktheripper | I have a dependency for a library I'm packaging that's only in maemo rootfs. It's flagged as 'missing dependency' on the package page. Do I just remove it from the deps list ? |
| 13:21.06 | MohammadAG51 | i wonder if bme would make it say worthless |
| 13:25.34 | delt | anyway, gonna be idle for a while, at least until this afternoon (gotta prepare some stuff) |
| 13:27.55 | *** join/#maemo madduck (~madduck@debian/developer/madduck) |
| 13:34.43 | tobis87 | If I want to change the vermagic in a module the proper way, how can I make objcopy to insert the section .modinfo, where it was located before? This is my command this far: "objcopy --remove-section=.modinfo --add-section .modinfo=TMP --set-section-flags .modinfo=contents,alloc,load,readonly,data MODULE.ko" But the new .modinfo section is always added to the end. |
| 13:35.30 | *** join/#maemo yacc (~andreas@server77-68-55-119.live-servers.net) |
| 13:35.43 | luke-jr__ | tobis87: ⦠|
| 13:35.47 | yacc | Wondering, what is meant with up to 1GB of application memory? |
| 13:35.50 | luke-jr__ | that's self-contradicting |
| 13:36.06 | luke-jr__ | yacc: 256 MB RAM plus 768 MB swap |
| 13:36.09 | yacc | 1GB address space with 256MB RAM and 768MB that get swapped to flash? |
| 13:36.23 | Stskeeps | yacc: yeah |
| 13:36.24 | tobis87 | luke-jr__: ? |
| 13:36.40 | yacc | cheapskates ;) |
| 13:36.48 | luke-jr__ | tobis87: changing vermagic is inherently *not* proper |
| 13:37.01 | luke-jr__ | it's asking for trouble, and basically won't work |
| 13:37.03 | Stskeeps | yacc: advertisement and 512mb DDR blocks in ARM wasn't commonplace back then.. |
| 13:37.26 | korhojoa | i wish it'd had 1gb of real ram |
| 13:37.30 | korhojoa | that would have made it a beast |
| 13:37.41 | luke-jr__ | Stskeeps: yes it was <.< |
| 13:37.42 | tobis87 | luke-jr__: Yes, I know... Only way I think of to make the binary injection drivers to load on boot, without force... |
| 13:37.48 | luke-jr__ | just not back when Nokia started designing it |
| 13:38.10 | Stskeeps | luke-jr__: i've only seen it on marvell |
| 13:38.19 | ShadowJK | forum.nokia still claims N900 has 768Mbyte NAND |
| 13:38.26 | luke-jr__ | Stskeeps: Nexus One, which came out like 3 months later, had a full 1 GB RAM |
| 13:38.35 | Termana | korhojoa, That's interesting, what is it you can't do with your N900 right now that having 1GB of RAM (no swap) would fix? |
| 13:38.45 | Termana | luke-jr__, lies |
| 13:38.47 | luke-jr__ | Termana: anything? |
| 13:38.58 | korhojoa | Termana, well, openoffice would definitely run better |
| 13:39.11 | Termana | luke-jr__, The Nexus One has 512mb of RAM, the Desire has 576mb. |
| 13:39.12 | korhojoa | also wireshark |
| 13:39.19 | luke-jr__ | o |
| 13:39.19 | ShadowJK | Mine runs much better after killing all python-based widgets, and qt. :) |
| 13:39.22 | korhojoa | wireshark is a pain in the ass to get to run well |
| 13:39.35 | luke-jr__ | notes Maemo5 requires swap from the start :/ |
| 13:39.48 | tobis87 | luke-jr__: Do you know how I set where the new .section will get inserted? |
| 13:40.04 | luke-jr__ | tobis87: rtfm |
| 13:40.05 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:40.06 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, mine works without |
| 13:40.15 | luke-jr__ | ShadowJK: I don't believe you. |
| 13:40.28 | luke-jr__ | swapoff -a # and tell me it doesn't crash |
| 13:40.36 | Termana | ShadowJK, are you a crazy mf? Booting Maemo 5 with no swap!? |
| 13:40.41 | Termana | :P |
| 13:40.47 | ShadowJK | it doesn't, I've done it a few times (swapoff) |
| 13:40.53 | luke-jr__ | ⦠|
| 13:40.53 | korhojoa | swapoff is fun |
| 13:40.57 | korhojoa | until you run out of ram |
| 13:41.01 | korhojoa | then it's all OH LOL REBOOT |
| 13:41.13 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 13:41.17 | ShadowJK | after booting with swap enabled, I can even open x-terminal and do cat /proc/swaps and see 0 use :) |
| 13:41.28 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 13:41.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr__: it doesn't crash :-P |
| 13:41.44 | luke-jr__ | DocScrutinizer51: does for me â¹ |
| 13:41.47 | ShadowJK | it only takes a few minutes though before IO activity starts pushing things to swap |
| 13:42.02 | luke-jr__ | and what's REALLY annoying is that swapon my MicroSD also crashes eventually |
| 13:42.08 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN_ (~Free_maN@admin.binouzemotion.pl) |
| 13:42.19 | ShadowJK | How does it crash? |
| 13:42.21 | korhojoa | why stick swap on a microsd? |
| 13:42.33 | *** join/#maemo olgagirl (~olgagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 13:42.36 | Termana | korhojoa, to stop wear on the internal emmc |
| 13:42.37 | ShadowJK | It offloads the emmc |
| 13:42.46 | korhojoa | well. i guess, yeah. |
| 13:42.56 | luke-jr__ | ShadowJK: in that case, a kernel panic |
| 13:42.59 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:43.02 | luke-jr__ | korhojoa: it's faster |
| 13:43.11 | korhojoa | ah. okay |
| 13:43.17 | ShadowJK | basically mmc/sd hates multitasking loads, and hates non-sequential access |
| 13:43.35 | ShadowJK | putting swap on microsd makes emmc access patterns slightly less random |
| 13:43.36 | korhojoa | so what's the difference moving to the microsd? |
| 13:43.41 | korhojoa | ahh. |
| 13:43.52 | luke-jr__ | MicroSD is faster, and can be replaced if wears away |
| 13:44.01 | korhojoa | a class 8 card should be fast |
| 13:44.15 | korhojoa | how fast is the controller? |
| 13:44.25 | korhojoa | i mean, does the performance increase after a class 6 card? |
| 13:44.25 | ShadowJK | well in the case of swap, it's really slow vs slower vs slowest :) |
| 13:44.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr__: uSD is WHAT? faster?? |
| 13:44.35 | luke-jr__ | DocScrutinizer51: according to dd |
| 13:44.39 | korhojoa | µsd? |
| 13:44.43 | korhojoa | not uSD |
| 13:44.44 | korhojoa | :P |
| 13:45.27 | luke-jr__ | obviously depends on the microSD card too |
| 13:45.28 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 13:45.47 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, btw, if the microsd card is internally dual channel or similar, dd can show higher throughput but random access can be twice as slow relative to dd speed compared to a singlechannel device :)) |
| 13:46.38 | luke-jr__ | ShadowJK: my kernel is patched to always do swap writes sequentially |
| 13:47.06 | *** join/#maemo `0660_ (~olli@dsl-jnsbrasgw2-fea4df00-239.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:47.20 | luke-jr__ | (no, not really) |
| 13:47.55 | SpeedEvil | stabs luke-jr with a mashed potato. |
| 13:48.02 | luke-jr__ | lol |
| 13:48.18 | ShadowJK | it does that until it runs off the end of the swap device, at which point you have a randomly filled device and it does something like start at largest free chunk and fill it |
| 13:48.30 | ShadowJK | so it gets exponentially slower with time :) |
| 13:48.37 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I've wondered about an icky hack. |
| 13:48.45 | luke-jr__ | ShadowJK: assuming you keep it full |
| 13:48.47 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: involving multiple swap devices. |
| 13:48.51 | *** join/#maemo shpaq` (shpaq@gentoo/user/shpaq) |
| 13:49.00 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: and swapoff when one is full, but fragmented. |
| 13:49.01 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, no I am not assuming that |
| 13:49.05 | luke-jr__ | shpaq`: you use Gentoo on N900? :P |
| 13:49.13 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Though I'm unsure if you can rate-limit the swapoff |
| 13:49.13 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, I do that already |
| 13:49.29 | ShadowJK | yeah it's a bit choppy when swapoff runs |
| 13:49.41 | luke-jr__ | you can't rate-limit *any* I/O on Maemo5 |
| 13:49.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: isn't that 'commonly accepted concept' since months |
| 13:49.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | ? |
| 13:50.04 | SpeedEvil | dunno. I've been suggesting it for ages. |
| 13:50.29 | luke-jr__ | meh |
| 13:50.45 | luke-jr__ | screw you all, I'm just going to get one of them RAM chips in a MicroSD form factor |
| 13:50.46 | ShadowJK | "full" being amount of writes in bytes since swapon exceeding swap device size, not when swap used is 768M or whatever |
| 13:50.47 | luke-jr__ | <.< |
| 13:51.19 | luke-jr__ | ShadowJK: if it isn't full, then all those earlier writes are now empty |
| 13:51.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: is there a ready method to get that writecount? |
| 13:51.24 | luke-jr__ | /available |
| 13:52.26 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, no it's pretty random. Only stuff that's been freed will be free, and there will be stuff still in use, in swap, spread all across the swap device |
| 13:52.36 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I use iostat |
| 13:52.39 | ShadowJK | iostat -m |
| 13:52.48 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube (~ghostcube@unaffiliated/ghostcube) |
| 13:53.01 | ghostcube | hmmm, anyone using vlc remote? |
| 13:53.04 | jacktheripper | There's a dep for my library that's only in rootfs not in the repos. It's flagged as missing on the package page. Do I just remove it as a dep ? |
| 13:53.20 | jacktheripper | what's the right thing to do ? |
| 13:53.23 | Termana | luke-jr__, Just because someone comes in and is a Gentoo user doesn't mean they are using Gentoo on their N900! :P |
| 13:53.34 | *** join/#maemo dRbiG (p@irc.kaer.tk) |
| 13:53.35 | luke-jr__ | Termana: why not? â¹ |
| 13:53.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | iostat seems no standard pkg |
| 13:54.02 | ghostcube | vlc remote not working here -.- |
| 13:54.05 | luke-jr__ | ⦠|
| 13:54.07 | Termana | luke-jr__, because not everyone has the time to be compiling for an embedded device as well as their desktop |
| 13:54.09 | ShadowJK | it's in sysstat |
| 13:54.13 | ghostcube | all apps for remote i try dont work |
| 13:54.15 | luke-jr__ | is tempted to tell DocScrutinizer51 to emerge iostat |
| 13:54.16 | luke-jr__ | <.< |
| 13:54.18 | ShadowJK | just parses /proc/diskstat iirc |
| 13:54.21 | *** join/#maemo vasily_pupkin (~user@109.162.36.93) |
| 13:54.29 | *** join/#maemo carloscesa (~carlos@189.2.193.178) |
| 13:54.32 | vasily_pupkin | hi |
| 13:55.02 | vasily_pupkin | I have strange problems with maemo-mapper |
| 13:55.21 | vasily_pupkin | Looks like it show map with some offset |
| 13:55.38 | *** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@c-4f6698d0-74736162.cust.telenor.se) |
| 13:56.01 | vasily_pupkin | Does anybody have same problems? |
| 13:56.26 | ghostcube | what overlay driver is needed for smplayer |
| 13:56.32 | ghostcube | i cant get any picture -.- |
| 13:56.39 | ghostcube | woah all apps iam testing dont work lol |
| 13:56.49 | rmrfchik | ghostcube: stop it |
| 13:57.01 | rmrfchik | ghostcube: go test some windows apps. |
| 13:57.05 | ghostcube | :D |
| 13:57.39 | ghostcube | nice hint but not very helpful |
| 13:58.36 | *** join/#maemo josemartins (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 13:58.42 | shpaq | luke-jr__: nope, i'm not using n900 |
| 13:58.53 | SpeedEvil | vasily_pupkin: where. |
| 13:58.56 | *** join/#maemo fecub (~fecub@perseus8.hs-niederrhein.de) |
| 13:58.57 | SpeedEvil | vasily_pupkin: how much offset |
| 13:59.18 | shpaq | i have an old n770 ;) |
| 13:59.54 | vasily_pupkin | SpeedEvil: n810 2.6.2 version |
| 14:00.03 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@aeif55.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 14:00.03 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 14:00.40 | ghostcube | so anyone a tip for smplayer? kmplayer works fine so far |
| 14:01.30 | kerio | is java working on the n900 as of now? |
| 14:01.40 | kerio | i want to play minecraft |
| 14:02.23 | ShadowJK | Depends if you want to run a j2se, j2ee, j2me or java web applet |
| 14:02.40 | kerio | j2se |
| 14:03.00 | vasily_pupkin | SpeedEvil: http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3446/gps.png |
| 14:03.07 | ShadowJK | would doubt applets work with anything |
| 14:03.36 | vasily_pupkin | SpeedEvil: red - real track, yellow - map. same for all maps providers |
| 14:04.02 | SpeedEvil | have you got anywhere that has multiple tracks? |
| 14:04.23 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy may be relevant |
| 14:04.33 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:04.44 | SpeedEvil | In some cases OSM accuracy is poor, and in other places, people have traced from incorrect sources. |
| 14:04.54 | SpeedEvil | Can you for example compare with ariel photos |
| 14:05.09 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-3-250.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 14:05.49 | vasily_pupkin | SpeedEvil: this is google maps, and on mapper application all ok |
| 14:05.55 | *** join/#maemo mfabiop (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 14:06.45 | SpeedEvil | It looks like it is not a consistent amount off. |
| 14:06.48 | vasily_pupkin | thats why i thinks the problem is in the maemo-mapper algo of counting x/y/z (?) |
| 14:06.53 | SpeedEvil | Doubtful. |
| 14:07.17 | vasily_pupkin | consistent amount off? |
| 14:07.18 | RST38h | mappero (maemo mapper) sources are open |
| 14:07.24 | RST38h | so it should be easy to check |
| 14:07.40 | SpeedEvil | vasily_pupkin: The error is not constant - the red track does not simply align to any feature |
| 14:07.57 | vasily_pupkin | yeah, but i am not at homw just now :] |
| 14:08.57 | *** join/#maemo Jasonb10 (~user@ip-84-42-134-102.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 14:10.02 | Jasonb10 | are there any mods or alternates to maemo5s hildon desktop which allow some kind of start menu? |
| 14:10.56 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (~Xisdibik@c-67-164-41-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 14:13.15 | vasily_pupkin | by the way |
| 14:13.39 | vasily_pupkin | is there any mappero ports to n810/diablo? |
| 14:14.23 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~choppa@mnch-d9bdfa80.pool.mediaWays.net) |
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| 14:16.44 | flux | has anyone noticed MyContacts & the associated home screen applet exiting spuriously? |
| 14:17.36 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 14:18.05 | RST38h | heya wazd |
| 14:19.20 | wazd | RST38h: hey :) Sorry, I have to run now, but I'll be back in a couple hours |
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| 14:20.28 | *** join/#maemo Flyser_ (~quassel@p578D1362.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:20.59 | ghostcube | yeah got vlc remote to work -.- |
| 14:21.02 | ghostcube | hrhr |
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| 14:23.38 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
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| 14:24.33 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 14:26.23 | Amorphous_ | is it already known that http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.2/free/binary-armel/Packages is broken? |
| 14:26.56 | javispedro | moo |
| 14:27.47 | lcuk | Jasonb10, look in the Diablo patchset, it incorporated a startmenuish menu for app launching :) |
| 14:28.17 | sivang | hey javispedro , lcuk , MohammadAG51 |
| 14:28.32 | javispedro | hello sivang |
| 14:28.39 | Jasonb10 | lcuk it looks great but im not sure how i would start trying to get it working in maemo5 |
| 14:29.33 | lcuk | technically you could try building the diablo hildon components and installing/replacing the ones on your development device |
| 14:29.38 | *** join/#maemo HarryS (H@2001:470:892c:3432::1) |
| 14:29.42 | Jasonb10 | uh huh... |
| 14:29.59 | Jasonb10 | good idea.. |
| 14:30.20 | lcuk | lots of people liked the diablo desktop :) and with telescope, it actually offers quite a nice experience without the powervr being involved |
| 14:30.41 | *** join/#maemo FireyFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 14:32.06 | Jasonb10 | i never had diablo but it looks cool |
| 14:32.10 | tobis87 | I have read the manpage over and over again. I have no idea how I could make objcopy to rearange sections, but it shouldn't really matter, or does it? |
| 14:32.13 | *** join/#maemo jreznik (~jreznik@36.173.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 14:33.08 | jacktheripper | am I not allowed to remove a package I uploaded to extras-devel ? |
| 14:33.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | nope afaik |
| 14:33.54 | javispedro | X-Fade: there? |
| 14:34.18 | dRbiG | okey, who broke http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.2/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz ? |
| 14:37.18 | jacktheripper | DocScrutinizer51, but what if I uploaded a broken package that can't be fixed ? does it just remain there ? |
| 14:37.51 | *** join/#maemo Jef91 (~chatzilla@99.92.182.165) |
| 14:38.11 | Jef91 | Did angry birds release on the N900 or iOS first? I tought it was N900 but wikipedia says differently |
| 14:38.25 | javispedro | iphone |
| 14:38.42 | *** join/#maemo ivan4th (~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru) |
| 14:39.25 | javispedro | jacktheripper: what did you do? can't you just bump version #? |
| 14:40.16 | jacktheripper | javispedro: it's libwnck, and it depends on libxres1 which has been removed in PR1.2 and moved to the tools repo. It's flagged as a missing dependency. Is there a better thing to do ? |
| 14:41.46 | tobis87 | I have not tried this with a n900 module, but this should work as well. http://pastebin.com/td0QaNje |
| 14:42.10 | *** join/#maemo Peyman (~pk@109.162.223.35) |
| 14:42.41 | MohammadAG51 | hey sivang |
| 14:42.49 | javispedro | jacktheripper: nothing awful will happen by leaving it there =) |
| 14:43.11 | javispedro | tobis87: aw, looks like you're trying to make your kernel suicide |
| 14:43.30 | MohammadAG51 | cat /dev/kmem ftw |
| 14:43.36 | MohammadAG51 | thanks DocScrutinizer |
| 14:44.59 | tobis87 | javispedro: This was only a test on my pc, I wanted to find out how to change the .modinfo section, so it is possible to use the injection driver with the normal kernel, without having to use force. |
| 14:46.04 | vasily_pupkin | hey |
| 14:46.13 | vasily_pupkin | i found shit in maemo-mapper |
| 14:46.53 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d51528382.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:46.54 | vkvraju | kernel panic |
| 14:46.56 | jacktheripper | javispedro, but it'd cause some confusion I think. |
| 14:47.10 | vasily_pupkin | can anybody give me proper /maps/maemo/maemo-mapper/map_correction_unitx? |
| 14:47.23 | vasily_pupkin | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 14:48.23 | *** join/#maemo britneypire (~britneypi@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 14:48.28 | *** part/#maemo Jasonb10 (~user@ip-84-42-134-102.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 14:49.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: eh? thanks for what? mentioning a way to cause kernel panic? |
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| 14:52.44 | RST38h | ZogGGG |
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| 14:57.19 | sivang | hi RST38h |
| 14:57.55 | *** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@134.134.137.71) |
| 15:02.14 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 15:03.57 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 15:05.17 | dRbiG | hmm, can anyone give me ip for a515.g.akamai.net ? |
| 15:05.27 | dRbiG | i have some weird issues here, again :) |
| 15:05.58 | n900-dk | a515.g.akamai.net has address 195.215.37.65 |
| 15:05.58 | n900-dk | a515.g.akamai.net has address 195.215.37.63 |
| 15:06.44 | dRbiG | that's interesting, three different sources three diferent ip sets |
| 15:07.23 | dRbiG | n900-dk: and http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.2/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz is a proper gzip file for you i assume? |
| 15:07.42 | dRbiG | i get here some wierd text output looking like a part of a config file |
| 15:08.04 | n900-dk | dRbiG: Yes it is |
| 15:08.34 | nidO | dRbiG: "three different sources three diferent ip sets" < thats basically the whole point of akamai |
| 15:09.04 | dRbiG | nidO: some kind of load-balancing/clustering stuff? |
| 15:09.45 | n900-dk | dRbiG: Yes, guess they have localized servers more places in the world |
| 15:09.55 | nidO | yes, its a worldwide network of load-balanced systems, that will always (usually) direct visitors to hosting nodes physically closest to themselves |
| 15:10.31 | dRbiG | okey, but why do i get this http://paste.org/pastebin/view/22936 instead of the gziped package list? |
| 15:10.34 | dRbiG | huh |
| 15:11.31 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-11-23.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 15:11.56 | *** join/#maemo sergio__ (~sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
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| 15:13.33 | n900-dk | That's a good question :) |
| 15:14.18 | sivang | hmm, so rsync -aHx /home to mSD took ages, I accidently disconnected from the USB cable, now ls on the mSD ext3 filesystem takes ages as well |
| 15:14.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | dRbiG: there's been other reports today bout repos gzip broken. For IP: akamai does load balancing |
| 15:14.54 | sivang | and it doesn't seem it is eating too much memory |
| 15:15.03 | sivang | is there a way to disable trackerd for a specific operation? |
| 15:15.52 | rmrfchik | hm, just read blogpost about nokia of former leader of the biggest mobile sellers in russia |
| 15:16.12 | rmrfchik | seems like nokia fucked up the market |
| 15:16.55 | sivang | what do you mean "f**cked" ? |
| 15:17.31 | sivang | I just took iPhone4 to my hands, it looks the same like the previous one, and no real multitasking yet. |
| 15:17.33 | rmrfchik | the ruined relations with dealers |
| 15:17.40 | rmrfchik | *they |
| 15:18.06 | sivang | not to mention not being able to use flash and transmit streamed stuff frmo 3G over FM radio :) |
| 15:18.21 | sivang | pets his N900 |
| 15:18.30 | dRbiG | DocScrutinizer51: seems that some of these load-balancing backend servers have some problems, halting in the middle of a script or sth. on another box one time i get the proper .gz file other time i get this broken stuff |
| 15:18.34 | dRbiG | annoying |
| 15:18.43 | dRbiG | either work everytime or be broken everytime |
| 15:19.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | dRbiG: I can easily suggest a 'fix' to you so it fails forver :-P |
| 15:20.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | interested? |
| 15:20.25 | dRbiG | DocScrutinizer51: i assume it all to be broken ;p |
| 15:20.33 | dRbiG | no fuzzy logic approach here |
| 15:22.38 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 15:23.35 | dRbiG | i wonder if this issue applies to other files not just package list |
| 15:24.52 | dRbiG | anyway, i can bet this whole stuff was written in php ;) |
| 15:25.02 | dRbiG | it feels so bamboo raft |
| 15:26.30 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:29.33 | yacc | Just out of curiosity, is there such a thing like a VNC server for the N900? |
| 15:29.49 | yacc | So that I can use the big screen and keyboard to use it while at home? |
| 15:31.23 | lcuk | yacc, sure there is - and you can also just plug into the video out ;) |
| 15:31.49 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@g230054084.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:32.28 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-181.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 15:32.40 | yacc | lcuk, well, video out means no keyboard. |
| 15:33.01 | yacc | lcuk, but a VNC server means that I can just "remote" control the phone. |
| 15:33.10 | yacc | One of the things that I most missed on my G1. |
| 15:33.39 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.214) |
| 15:35.30 | lcuk | yacc just type "vnc" into the search box here http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 15:35.43 | lcuk | or into search box on HAM :) |
| 15:36.28 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:36.43 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-11-23.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 15:37.08 | yacc | Wondering, Maemo does run X11 or does it have it's own "display system" directly wired with Qt? |
| 15:37.32 | jaska | x11 |
| 15:37.52 | yacc | cool, so x11vnc is enough to remote control the UI :) |
| 15:38.22 | yacc | That's why I've been wanting to have a N900 for some time, ... |
| 15:38.41 | yacc | And if I believe a former friend, it's nearly unbrickable too :) |
| 15:40.41 | javispedro | yacc: here comes the surprising part: the core Maemo doesn't use Qt all, but Gtk+. |
| 15:40.48 | javispedro | *at all. |
| 15:40.54 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (~ph5@e178209140.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:41.13 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus_ (~slonopota@83.149.8.62) |
| 15:44.17 | yacc | lol |
| 15:44.34 | sivang | yacc: maemo is actually of strong GTK+ legacy |
| 15:44.55 | yacc | But Qt is the new thing, right? |
| 15:45.41 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 15:45.57 | AcTiVaTe | Depends on how you define new I guess |
| 15:46.06 | AcTiVaTe | Both Qt and Gtk+ have been around quite a while |
| 15:46.51 | sivang | yacc: mobile app development offering from Nokia now leans to Qt mostly. |
| 15:47.14 | sivang | yacc: and is the thick of the MeeGo SDK for example |
| 15:47.59 | sivang | MohammadAG: Can I stop trackerd? Also, I rsync'd some stuff to the mSD and the process broke in the middle, now the fs seems inaccessbiel as when ls'ing it it hangs for inordinate amount of time. |
| 15:48.56 | javispedro | tracker-processes -t |
| 15:49.13 | sivang | thanks javispedro |
| 15:49.17 | javispedro | starting media player will spawn it again |
| 15:49.48 | sivang | javispedro: I haven't , then again, there is a good chance my fs busy problem is not related to tracker |
| 15:50.14 | javispedro | there's a good chance it's just that io is slow :P |
| 15:50.58 | sivang | javispedro: right, and I forgot to disable the journal before the copy process ;/ |
| 15:51.11 | sivang | javispedro: tracker is defucnt, how can I have it cleaned? |
| 15:51.21 | h4waii | Blow away the DB. |
| 15:51.40 | javispedro | sivang: doesn't matter |
| 15:51.43 | h4waii | tracker SUCKS. There is no real way to fix "it" |
| 15:51.45 | javispedro | defunct = No resources |
| 15:52.13 | slonopotamus | h4waii: just stop it :) |
| 15:52.33 | h4waii | and not have my media indexed? |
| 15:52.44 | *** join/#maemo juk (~juk@123.119.72.44) |
| 15:53.02 | slonopotamus | well, you can still use file manager to navigate |
| 15:53.09 | sivang | javispedro: right, it just hurt my eye to see it there still and starting the media player did not start it causing media player to report "no videos/songs" :) |
| 15:53.14 | h4waii | Pretty lame option, IMHO. |
| 15:53.16 | juk | hehey here where you are folks! |
| 15:53.32 | sivang | juk: ? |
| 15:53.36 | juk | everyone voted already? |
| 15:53.57 | slonopotamus | h4waii: another option is to fix tracker :) |
| 15:54.00 | juk | hi sivang |
| 15:54.20 | h4waii | The best option is to replace tracker. |
| 15:54.23 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:54.29 | juk | did everyone voted here for n900? |
| 15:54.37 | sivang | hmm |
| 15:54.54 | sivang | hey juk :) I will be soon requiring voting myself , I plan to upload some apps soon |
| 15:54.57 | *** join/#maemo timeless_pidgin (~timeless@80-186-148-224.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 15:55.13 | javispedro | sivang: time to reboot =) |
| 15:55.17 | juk | sivang: great! |
| 15:55.35 | MohammadAG | no, most don't care what wins in some online competition |
| 15:55.38 | sivang | javispedro: yeah, as I see now, quite astonishingly that 3(!!) rsync processes are running toward the same target. |
| 15:55.45 | MohammadAG | the poll is really pointless |
| 15:55.45 | juk | javispedro: I know your nick :) and MohammadAG |
| 15:56.00 | timeless_pidgin | Can someone here please open ovi maps (i know) and try searching for: killarney, ireland |
| 15:56.04 | sivang | juk: none of them really stoped when I ctrl-c'd |
| 15:56.20 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: can it be done on the web instead of the device? |
| 15:56.21 | timeless_pidgin | ... Once it finds that, try a new search for: bus terminal, killarney |
| 15:56.29 | timeless_pidgin | Sivang : dunno |
| 15:56.37 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: okay, I'm doing it on the device |
| 15:56.39 | sivang | just a sec |
| 15:56.47 | sivang | bah |
| 15:56.51 | sivang | I have to reboot first, |
| 15:56.51 | timeless_pidgin | I'd rather n900 since i want fidelity to version 1 stupidity |
| 15:57.10 | sivang | straying rsync processes... |
| 15:57.23 | sivang | hmm |
| 15:57.26 | sivang | reboot is not responding |
| 15:57.27 | sivang | odd |
| 15:57.43 | slonopotamus | :) |
| 15:57.50 | timeless_pidgin | sudo gainroot; reboot |
| 15:57.50 | slonopotamus | hdd failure? |
| 15:58.03 | *** join/#maemo RevdKathy (~RevdKathy@5ace036c.bb.sky.com) |
| 15:58.11 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: yes, that's what I did, through root though |
| 15:58.22 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: anyway, I switched on and off form the button menu |
| 15:58.46 | sivang | ooohh I think I made it angry |
| 15:58.59 | sivang | it has done the boot vibrate for like 3 times ina row now |
| 15:59.05 | sivang | hopes thigns are right inside there |
| 15:59.23 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: booting, just a sec |
| 15:59.39 | juk | sivang: what app are you developing? |
| 15:59.50 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:8b2b:fac0:221:5dff:fe95:a18) |
| 16:00.22 | sivang | juk: something to get events from rsyslog enabled servers into the device with alerts and stuff, mostly as an excersize |
| 16:00.27 | sivang | juk: for admins |
| 16:00.53 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: okay, it runs. killarney , ireland it is |
| 16:01.37 | sivang | *exercise |
| 16:02.05 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 16:02.07 | sivang | juk: I want to create a suite of apps "for making administrators life good" as Borat would have said. |
| 16:02.25 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: ovi boots |
| 16:02.27 | juk | sivang: that's cool |
| 16:02.34 | *** join/#maemo timeless_pidgin1 (~timeless@84-231-33-225.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:03.13 | sivang | timeless_pidgin1: how do I search it.. |
| 16:03.35 | timeless_pidgin | At the bottom right there's an un fullscreen |
| 16:03.54 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: k, clicked it |
| 16:03.58 | timeless_pidgin | Tap. Then there's a search "button" in the "bar" |
| 16:04.06 | sivang | you mean places? |
| 16:04.14 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.62) |
| 16:04.20 | timeless_pidgin | Hrm, no? |
| 16:04.32 | timeless_pidgin | Which maemo software do you have? |
| 16:04.51 | timeless_pidgin | (which do i have? :( ...) |
| 16:04.59 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: that's okay, I'm managing |
| 16:05.09 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: alreay got offered the airport through auto completiong, just a sec |
| 16:05.22 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: seems like the latest OVI maps but the device is at 1.1.1 orsomething |
| 16:05.25 | sivang | surely not 1.2 |
| 16:05.29 | timeless_pidgin | Take pictures as you go (ctrl-shift-p) ;) |
| 16:05.52 | timeless_pidgin | Iirc maps got a facelift for 1.2 |
| 16:05.52 | *** join/#maemo sleipnir (~sleipnir@p4FDD1B67.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:06.02 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: I think it seems like in 1.2 |
| 16:06.09 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: but I know for sure I am not using 1.2. |
| 16:06.12 | sivang | s/.// |
| 16:06.42 | timeless_pidgin | s/2./2/ |
| 16:06.52 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 16:06.56 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: and what's next? the train station? |
| 16:07.06 | sivang | "Killerny train station"? |
| 16:07.09 | timeless_pidgin | Anyway, what does it give as results? |
| 16:07.30 | sivang | county, county roscommon |
| 16:07.35 | timeless_pidgin | For me it showed killarney and bus terminal as distinct map points. |
| 16:07.37 | sivang | county kerry |
| 16:07.49 | javispedro | Killarney Bus Station? |
| 16:07.56 | juk | sivang: I want to port busybox, original one, default in maemo is modified |
| 16:08.06 | sivang | oh dear...it set on US. |
| 16:08.08 | sivang | changes |
| 16:08.15 | GAN900 | I wish rtcomm could actually manage to maintain connections for more then a day at a stretch. |
| 16:08.31 | timeless_pidgin | Which was "helpful", since the fact that i'm *in* killarney and am looking for a bus terminal means that i really want to know where killarney (map center) is! |
| 16:08.32 | javispedro | GAN900: it's all gone downhill since recently, I don't know what's going on |
| 16:08.33 | sivang | tht's bettter |
| 16:08.45 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: error on searc, retrying |
| 16:08.50 | timeless_pidgin | That's why i searched for killarney alone, oh wait, i didn't... |
| 16:09.06 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: okay, don't despair I'm massaging it |
| 16:09.08 | javispedro | it used to be able to keep gtalk/jabber open for more than a day, now I hear the usualy login/logout sounds every two or three hours :( |
| 16:09.52 | sivang | juk: nice, will be right back with you after I finish helping timeless_pidgin |
| 16:09.58 | timeless_pidgin | Have you asked the telepathy people about logging? |
| 16:10.19 | timeless_pidgin | Surely they'd want to investigate/improve... |
| 16:10.29 | timeless_pidgin | is on a bus to Cork |
| 16:10.39 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: okay, I found a Killarney bus station |
| 16:10.46 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: and centered upon it |
| 16:11.02 | timeless_pidgin | Sivang : the question isn't really can you find it |
| 16:11.10 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: what do you need from it? |
| 16:11.14 | timeless_pidgin | It's whether when you search for: bus terminal, killarney |
| 16:11.21 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:11.32 | timeless_pidgin | Does it show two results (bus terminal), (killarney) |
| 16:11.36 | *** join/#maemo deegee__ (~deegee@3-36.gw02.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk) |
| 16:11.38 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: I searched for "Killarney Bus Station" |
| 16:11.57 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: (1) |
| 16:11.58 | timeless_pidgin | Nah, "bus terminal, killarney" w/o quotes |
| 16:12.44 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: -> one hit |
| 16:12.48 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: same as before |
| 16:12.55 | sivang | "Killarney Bus Station" |
| 16:13.39 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: that's all what you need? no info from it? can I offer you some lonelyplanet recommendations? :-P |
| 16:14.15 | slonopotamus | who is Arney, btw? |
| 16:14.53 | sivang | timeless_pidgin: there's a phone number as well. |
| 16:15.02 | sivang | juk: what's missing from Maemo's busybox? |
| 16:15.18 | h4waii | He's the guy who owns all of Ireland - slonopotamus |
| 16:15.26 | h4waii | Sort of the Illuminati |
| 16:16.45 | juk | sivang: some flags, like find's -exec |
| 16:17.00 | sivang | juk: ah, and it was disabled for security or leaness ? |
| 16:17.28 | slonopotamus | sivang: because nokia didn't need them :) |
| 16:17.50 | slonopotamus | (oh, and don't ask how old is maemo busybox) |
| 16:18.01 | juk | sivang: i dont know, also ifconfig and ping are need to be run as sudo, weird |
| 16:18.12 | javispedro | isn't that normal? |
| 16:18.16 | Scelt | Stskeeps: where I can follow meego to N900 -development the best? |
| 16:18.31 | slonopotamus | javispedro: no |
| 16:18.34 | sivang | Scelt: meego-arm |
| 16:18.49 | javispedro | slonopotamus: you'd need a separate suid "Ping" binary |
| 16:18.52 | *** join/#maemo E0x (~moya@133.87.3.196.l.sta.codetel.net.do) |
| 16:18.55 | Scelt | sivang: :? |
| 16:19.16 | javispedro | or give suid (or ping caps) to the entiry busybox bnary |
| 16:19.24 | juk | javispedro: Im not unix expert, just saying out my some experience |
| 16:19.32 | kerio | "Bus Station, Killflanders" |
| 16:19.45 | sivang | Scelt: http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev |
| 16:19.55 | Scelt | sivang: thx |
| 16:20.00 | sivang | Scelt: or join #meego-arm |
| 16:21.00 | slonopotamus | javispedro: and _normally_ ping is a separate binary |
| 16:21.15 | Scelt | sivang: I did |
| 16:21.29 | sivang | Scelt: subscribed? |
| 16:21.39 | javispedro | slonopotamus: on busybox? |
| 16:21.44 | Scelt | sivang: nah, just joined the channel |
| 16:22.31 | slonopotamus | javispedro: nope. but normally you don't use busybox |
| 16:22.48 | *** join/#maemo coffeecat (~Robert@ool-45716852.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 16:23.20 | sivang | is there a simple example for a maemo app that uses gconf? (/me checks modest) |
| 16:23.37 | javispedro | slonopotamus: that's another point (a good one though =) ). |
| 16:23.55 | javispedro | sivang: any gnome app |
| 16:23.59 | MohammadAG | modest uses ~/.modest |
| 16:24.16 | MohammadAG | fMMS (python) uses gconf |
| 16:24.37 | *** join/#maemo Robotnixon (~robitnixo@41.130.24.224) |
| 16:25.35 | sivang | MohammadAG: thanks, what about hildon? I'm specifically after the usage pattern of GSettings |
| 16:26.53 | sivang | arghs at the -pae kernel that keeps hanging |
| 16:27.07 | javispedro | sivang: GSettings is too new for Maemo, afaik you won't be able to use it at all |
| 16:27.33 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@Maemo/community/contributor/Andy80) |
| 16:28.39 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-150-115.inter.net.il) |
| 16:30.15 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-150-115.inter.net.il) |
| 16:31.16 | sivang | javispedro: I thought of first doing some review, to see how many and which applications we need to change as per - http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/5854 |
| 16:31.48 | javispedro | I've not followed that |
| 16:32.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | nuke messybox |
| 16:32.33 | sivang | javispedro: so basically, Arjan said he would be happy to move to dconf, but first there need to be a coherent settings API that apps will use, where switching the backend won't change anything for them. |
| 16:32.54 | sivang | javispedro: arr, Marius, not Arjan |
| 16:33.38 | sivang | javispedro: Arjan just said we need a plan, http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/5828 |
| 16:33.57 | sivang | javispedro: so I want to start preparing this plan. first step to research how many and which apps do use gconf, and it what way. |
| 16:34.00 | sivang | (IMHO) |
| 16:34.24 | Scelt | frals: where's new fmms? mms sending is still slow ;( |
| 16:34.37 | javispedro | sivang: ah well, I would be surprised if the figure wasn't anywhere near 100% of the applications |
| 16:34.50 | javispedro | and all of them using GConfClient. |
| 16:35.08 | javispedro | on Meego maybe some of them used the libmeego gconf client |
| 16:35.14 | javispedro | *libmeegotouch |
| 16:35.27 | sivang | javispedro: yes, inside meegotouch this is the same "abstraction" |
| 16:35.34 | sivang | javispedro: e.g. follwoing exactly same API |
| 16:35.50 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 16:35.53 | sivang | javispedro: that's Marius's lib , reintroduced there. |
| 16:36.41 | sivang | javispedro: it seems the missing bit is to enable the qt wrappers to listen to changes AFAI understand it, but I may be terribly wrong. |
| 16:36.44 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-112-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:36.49 | *** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@5265C40E.cm-8.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 16:37.07 | javispedro | iirc the one missing notifications is qsettings (the multiplatform qt one) |
| 16:37.16 | javispedro | (for obvious reasons... ) |
| 16:37.19 | sivang | javispedro: exactly |
| 16:37.28 | *** join/#maemo sergio (~sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 16:37.32 | sivang | javispedro: what are the obvious reasons for lack of signaling? |
| 16:37.35 | sivang | err, notifications. |
| 16:37.42 | javispedro | sivang: that some platforms do not implement it. |
| 16:38.28 | sivang | javispedro: well, okay. It should just be defunct for platforms that do no implement it, it is also not the platform itself but the settings storage software installed there, so it is the "middleware" level |
| 16:38.47 | sivang | I should probably take this to qt-devel |
| 16:38.51 | sivang | contemplates |
| 16:41.03 | *** join/#maemo Erod (~Juno@unaffiliated/erod) |
| 16:42.05 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube (~ghost@unaffiliated/ghostcube) |
| 16:43.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | honestly I don't see the rationale behind ANY windows registry mimicking configuration system, no amtter if you cal it gconf, *conf or foobar - it just gives me goosepimples |
| 16:45.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | what the hell is wrong with good old unix defacto standard plain text config files? |
| 16:45.20 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: notifications =) |
| 16:45.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | eh? |
| 16:45.54 | javispedro | envision a hundred of apps getting notified by inotify when a .ini file changes, then all of them reparsing the entire .ini file and updating |
| 16:46.16 | javispedro | now envision a daemon telling each specific app listening for a specific setting sending a dbus message |
| 16:46.23 | javispedro | that setting X changed and its new value is Y |
| 16:47.11 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@17-187.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 16:47.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: umm, so what? |
| 16:47.37 | mgedmin | that was what sold me on gconf |
| 16:47.49 | mgedmin | instant settings update in all running apps |
| 16:48.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | don't buy that |
| 16:49.40 | liori | sane system of system-wide/user prefs, with optional blocking user changes? |
| 16:50.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | where's the overhead of 100 fopen();read() compared to 100 dbus-notify? esp if those 100 read() are to the same buffered file? |
| 16:51.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | nonsense, systemwide killing off apps/processes when one central cruft system (gconfd) fails |
| 16:51.35 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: XML parsing is only done once |
| 16:51.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | pfft |
| 16:52.10 | jacktheripper | MohammadAG, hey, I remember you told me yesterday that I should keep my -dev package in extras-devel. There's nothing wrong with having most of the dependencies flagged as 'missing' on the page, right ? |
| 16:52.47 | slonopotamus | lindi-: no reason to keep configs in xml |
| 16:53.20 | liori | having been lurking here for some time, I saw you bashing nokia so many times; please reassure me: n900 isn't that bad as you say so? :-) |
| 16:53.37 | sivang | mgedmin: how is gconf overcoming the performance problem with inotify and ini files ? |
| 16:53.40 | juk | what difference armeb and arm and armel ??? |
| 16:54.01 | juk | confusing stuff |
| 16:54.07 | *** join/#maemo timsamofflocal (~timsamoff@207.233.110.66) |
| 16:54.10 | satmd | big endian, little endian |
| 16:54.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | really a great achievement for those myriads of 2 system wide config changes per day, to set up some overcomplicated slow unmanageable system like gconfd |
| 16:54.36 | mgedmin | sivang, instead of 5 apps having to read, parse, and diff internally with old settings, there's a single notification from the app changing the setting to gconfd which redistributes the notification to those 4 of the 5 apps that expressed an interest in that particular setting |
| 16:54.46 | mgedmin | but I wasn't saying it was overcoming a performance problem, specifically |
| 16:54.47 | juk | satmd: so which one is n900 running |
| 16:54.50 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51 has lots in what his saying. The amount of constant configuration is small on such a platform and happens mostly when user starts using the system for the first itme. |
| 16:54.59 | satmd | uname -a should tell you |
| 16:55.17 | sivang | mgedmin: but they still have to re-read the config no? |
| 16:55.22 | satmd | mh, doesnt |
| 16:55.24 | sivang | mgedmin: or do dbus sends them the changed valu? |
| 16:55.30 | mgedmin | sivang, no, gconf sends them the changed value |
| 16:55.35 | sivang | mgedmin: ah great. |
| 16:55.39 | mgedmin | gconf doesn't use dbus, I think |
| 16:55.41 | *** join/#maemo timsamoff (~timsamoff@Maemo/community/contributor/timsamoff) |
| 16:55.50 | mgedmin | that's what the upcoming gconf replacement dconf is all about |
| 16:56.07 | juk | satmd: it's better, armv71 unkown, which one is that one now? |
| 16:56.14 | sivang | mgedmin: about sending the changed values? you said said gconf does this as well :) |
| 16:56.20 | mgedmin | gconf is a nice framework with some serious implementation issues -- all those little .xml files scattered on disk are not good for performance |
| 16:56.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | great, even more overhead |
| 16:56.39 | mgedmin | sivang, yes, I just meant that currently gconf uses some kind of IPC that's not based on top of dbus |
| 16:56.44 | mgedmin | for those notifications |
| 16:56.44 | MohammadAG | jacktheripper, nope, some of the ones in the rootfs of Maemo 5 aren't detected by the packages page I think |
| 16:56.53 | satmd | juk: just trying to find out, I have one :p |
| 16:57.01 | sivang | liori: N900 is the best thing since sliced bread, and a good replacement for a girl friend |
| 16:57.10 | juk | satmd: you have what? |
| 16:57.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | ahah! optimezed to a point where performance sucks - wait, why did we change to gconf? |
| 16:57.43 | RevdKathy | sivang - Must have been a lousy relationship |
| 16:57.52 | liori | sivang: ok, thanks, that's what I wanted to hear |
| 16:57.55 | sivang | RevdKathy: yes, long sotry :) |
| 16:58.03 | sivang | still, N900 keeps me company |
| 16:58.12 | RevdKathy | thinks of ways she could outclass an n900 |
| 16:58.13 | sivang | the more I get from it, the more I want |
| 16:58.13 | javispedro | mgedmin: oh, it does use gconf, at least recent versions of it |
| 16:58.26 | mgedmin | javispedro, did you mean dconf? |
| 16:58.26 | juk | satmd: I donwloaded arm toolchain and shell says not found while executing |
| 16:58.38 | javispedro | mgedmin: err. I mean... gconf does use dbus. |
| 16:58.39 | lindi- | mgedmin: gconf uses CORBA currently afaik |
| 16:58.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | let's face it, gconf idea is an evil infection of mind you get by touching redmond crap |
| 16:58.51 | sivang | lindi-: ooo right |
| 16:58.51 | javispedro | i even have proof =) |
| 16:59.08 | javispedro | the tetris app on diablo and fremantle use dbus to talk with gconfd |
| 16:59.09 | juk | satmd: shall i get armv7 ? |
| 16:59.10 | mgedmin | I believe you |
| 16:59.20 | javispedro | directly, no client library in between |
| 16:59.27 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 16:59.28 | sivang | RevdKathy: sky are also ISPing ? :) |
| 16:59.32 | mgedmin | updates his internal knowledge base and hopes he won't forget |
| 16:59.40 | johnsq | Hi |
| 16:59.45 | lindi- | johnsq: but does it use CORBA over dbus there? |
| 16:59.47 | mgedmin | what's the point of dconf then? |
| 16:59.51 | RevdKathy | yes - have been for years |
| 16:59.56 | lindi- | javispedro: but does it use CORBA over dbus there? |
| 17:00.04 | javispedro | why it would do that?? |
| 17:00.11 | liori | DocScrutinizer51: do you have any alternatives which will have the same features as gconf? |
| 17:00.12 | javispedro | corba is a giant mess |
| 17:00.17 | mgedmin | ldd /usr/lib/.../gconfd-2 does link to both libORBit and to libdbus |
| 17:00.27 | lindi- | javispedro: because afaik dbus support was not there yet |
| 17:00.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | what Fing *features* ??? |
| 17:00.48 | lindi- | javispedro: can you post output of dbus-monitor? |
| 17:00.50 | javispedro | lindi-: sigh. method call sender=:1.200 -> dest=org.gnome.GConf serial=2 path=/org/gnome/GConf; interface=org.gnome.GConf; member=GetIOR |
| 17:00.57 | javispedro | etc, etc, etc. |
| 17:01.12 | javispedro | and this is on a 2-3 year old gnome version.. |
| 17:01.22 | liori | DocScrutinizer51: not having to code file management, notification changes, and system-wide/user prefs |
| 17:01.39 | lindi- | javispedro: and then it transmits things like "IOR:010000001600000049444c3a436f6e666967536572766572323a312e30000000030000000054424f540000000101020005000000554e4958000000000a0000006c6f63616c686f73740000002a000000 |
| 17:01.44 | lindi- | javispedro: there? afaik that's orbit over dbus |
| 17:01.50 | lindi- | javispedro: there? afaik that's corba over dbus :) |
| 17:01.54 | satmd | dunn |
| 17:01.56 | satmd | +o |
| 17:01.57 | javispedro | lindi-: touché |
| 17:02.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | liori: sorry, not my problem if you don't like coding and dun't know how to use libs |
| 17:02.20 | mgedmin | and your tetris app deals with that? |
| 17:02.21 | mgedmin | wow |
| 17:02.33 | javispedro | no, letme look it up |
| 17:02.42 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 17:02.54 | lindi- | javispedro: would be interesting if it did anything more complex with dbus |
| 17:03.22 | satmd | juk: wikipedia says... both ... but I dunno how thats implemented, if one can chose it per kernel or per application |
| 17:03.23 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-238-107.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 17:03.29 | javispedro | lindi-: I see that there's a proper Dbus API |
| 17:03.40 | javispedro | lindi-: see interface org.gnome.GConf.Database |
| 17:03.42 | liori | DocScrutinizer51: i just don't want to spend time on details which should be solved by environment |
| 17:03.49 | satmd | iirc little endian |
| 17:03.54 | javispedro | lindi-: http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-games-wrapper-1.9.4/libhgw/hgw_conf.c#121 |
| 17:03.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol |
| 17:04.03 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (~wtfisme@sea02-v600-nat.marchex.com) |
| 17:04.34 | juk | satmd: thanks for researching! |
| 17:04.39 | liori | DocScrutinizer51: and gconf has an additional feature that it abstracts how the settings are actually stored, so i don't care if it is XML or INI files... gconf can change that later |
| 17:04.57 | ZogG | Khertan, re |
| 17:05.00 | juk | satmd: im doing just verbosly :D |
| 17:05.08 | ZogG | MohammadAG, ping |
| 17:05.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | app config is "environment"?? and you honestly suggest using gconf and dbus is much simpler than using any of the multiple config file parsing libs available? |
| 17:05.37 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: definitely! because there's A LOT of them, and all of them implement their own syntax, their own quirks, etc. |
| 17:05.39 | mgedmin | depends if you want insta-apply or not |
| 17:05.41 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~dvaske@nat/nokia/x-ppdkndxuuhgbnzij) |
| 17:05.42 | mgedmin | I suppose |
| 17:06.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | liori: so maybe it also learns to smell like lemon. Would that also count as feature? |
| 17:06.20 | liori | DocScrutinizer51: if user wants his configuration to smell, why not? |
| 17:07.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: so what? you are not suggested to use all of them concurrently |
| 17:07.59 | Venemo | hi guys |
| 17:08.06 | MohammadAG | ZogG, pong |
| 17:08.07 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: thanks for your help yesterday |
| 17:08.20 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: but apps will, and you'll have to learn them. |
| 17:08.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | user wants to not see "gconfd 20% cpu" - everything else is irrelevant. Nah wait, what's the analog to less .xchat2/xchat.conf? for gconf? |
| 17:08.54 | Venemo | SpeedEvil: I took my N900 to a Nokia service. The guy measured the battery voltage, it was 2.4 V... so he gave it a manual charge, and now my N900 can charge it, too |
| 17:08.54 | Khertan | ZogG, ? |
| 17:08.57 | Khertan | re |
| 17:08.58 | Khertan | :) |
| 17:09.00 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: gconftool -R /apps/gconf |
| 17:09.18 | javispedro | er.. |
| 17:09.19 | lindi- | javispedro: interesting |
| 17:09.25 | javispedro | /apps/xchat |
| 17:09.25 | *** join/#maemo jcrawford (~jcrawford@unaffiliated/idle0ne) |
| 17:09.54 | Venemo | MohammadAG: thanks to you too |
| 17:09.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: uhuh, so you want to play benevolent dictator now? by pressing devels into just one quirky interface, instead of configs of their choice? |
| 17:09.58 | lindi- | javispedro: any idea where I can find the source of this "LookupExtended"? grep does not find it from the source of gconf 2.31.5 |
| 17:10.24 | *** join/#maemo lupine_85 (~lupine_85@master.lupine.me.uk) |
| 17:10.35 | frals | Scelt: initial testing is showing imagemagick to be hell of a lot slower, but ive not checked all options yet :P |
| 17:10.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: I'm really eager to copy my xchat config from N810 to N900 this way |
| 17:11.02 | MohammadAG | Venemo, stopping bme shouldn't kill a battery, anyways, good to see it was resolved :) |
| 17:11.07 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis_ (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:11.11 | Scelt | frals: I gave you the best quality option so not surprised :) try -scale |
| 17:11.23 | liori | DocScrutinizer51: if you want to code your own configuration code, do so; gconf is for those who only needs standard features... which will fit 95% of apps |
| 17:11.26 | Venemo | MohammadAG, now I see that bme is there for a reason :) |
| 17:11.32 | *** join/#maemo twouters (~twouters@unaffiliated/twouters) |
| 17:11.33 | *** join/#maemo lupine_85 (~lupine_85@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152) |
| 17:11.48 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: ah, we've reached that point of the discussion again. Nobody is forcing anybody to use GConf (well, save gnome foundation for gnome core apps). The fact that I think it's a nice approach doesn't force anyone to use it. |
| 17:12.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's a system architecture paradoxon (ouff maged to use any 4letter word) |
| 17:12.32 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93-35-148-158.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:12.59 | twouters | is something wrong with the maemo.org repositories or am I using wrong url's? http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.2/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz doesn't seem valid to me. |
| 17:13.05 | *** join/#maemo vkvraju_ (7aa48a82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.164.138.130) |
| 17:13.10 | vkvraju_ | Hi |
| 17:13.16 | vkvraju_ | anyone tried booting MeeGo on their N900 |
| 17:13.20 | Scelt | frals: for an example: resample took 0m2.778s, sample 0m0.090s and scale 0m0.113s |
| 17:13.27 | vkvraju_ | I tried just now. The process is easy |
| 17:13.50 | vkvraju_ | but the screen is mostly blank. Is this expected behaviour or did I do something wrong? |
| 17:13.53 | Scelt | frals: I think using resample was a bad idea. I forgot to do that test :( |
| 17:14.50 | frals | Scelt: im reading up on the different filters to see which produces acceptable images... it was this part i was hoping to not have to do ;D |
| 17:15.14 | Venemo | vkvraju_: can MeeGo make phone calls yet? |
| 17:15.18 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@187.59.114.94) |
| 17:15.28 | vkvraju_ | thats what I read and so tried booting today |
| 17:15.37 | vkvraju_ | people wre able to make and receive phone calls |
| 17:15.42 | vkvraju_ | and also receiev SMS too |
| 17:15.47 | vkvraju_ | read it in meego forums today |
| 17:16.00 | Venemo | sounds good! :) |
| 17:16.02 | vkvraju_ | This was with the image that includes Nokia's closed components and stuff |
| 17:16.16 | vkvraju_ | yeah |
| 17:16.17 | Venemo | yeah, I thought so, but I don't have problems with that |
| 17:16.26 | Scelt | frals: yeah. I know I should have tested it better, sorry. but I'm pretty sure that one of those wrapper filters are fine. was it very slow with scale or sample too? or only with that resample? |
| 17:16.32 | Venemo | at least it's MeeGo on the N900!!! :) |
| 17:16.35 | vkvraju_ | I tried booting into it. The process was simple enough. But things are not clean after booting in. |
| 17:16.55 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@86.57.195.158) |
| 17:17.07 | ZogG | MohammadAG wanna make me russian localization for psfreedom and btw what about the version when you don't need disc inside? |
| 17:17.08 | frals | Scelt: im testing with resize to see what it does currently, so far everything has been slow ;D |
| 17:17.17 | ZogG | Khertan, bonjour |
| 17:17.20 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@5355B9B3.cable.casema.nl) |
| 17:17.25 | vkvraju_ | my screen is sitting blank now. If anyone has a way to get me to the meego menu, it would be great |
| 17:17.38 | Scelt | frals: have you tested -scale? |
| 17:17.45 | frals | not yet |
| 17:17.45 | Venemo | vkvraju_: perhaps the guys in #meego would be of more help to you |
| 17:17.54 | MohammadAG | ZogG, well, I need to look at how to translate Qt apps first, as for the version, ask in #psfreedom, I only made the UI, not the kernel modules |
| 17:17.57 | ZogG | Khertan, wanted to make russian localization for khweeteur as well, or other your programs if you want, do you have .po files ? |
| 17:18.04 | DocScrutinizer | you started with the claim of gconf optimizing system performance, meanwhile we got the factoid it actually ntroduces performance *problems* and we never had any optimizing need in first instance. Then you claim gconf is easier to use, while there's quite obviously no difference to using any other arbitrary lib. Now you talk about abstraction of backend, so user has not to care about the file format. Great, I *love* to have a plain text |
| 17:18.06 | DocScrutinizer | file format of config files though, maybe even with comments. So what's next ? |
| 17:18.06 | vkvraju_ | I am currently at meego-arm too. No one seems to be interested to help there |
| 17:18.30 | ZogG | !google qt gui po translation |
| 17:18.31 | zgoldberg | Results for qt gui po translation on Google: |
| 17:18.31 | zgoldberg | -- |
| 17:18.36 | ZogG | hmm |
| 17:18.41 | Venemo | vkvraju_: I think Stskeeps could help you |
| 17:18.46 | Venemo | ~seen Stskeeps |
| 17:18.56 | infobot | stskeeps is currently on #maemo (2d 10h 58m 54s) #meego (2d 10h 58m 54s). Has said a total of 95 messages. Is idling for 3h 16m 48s, last said: 'die'. |
| 17:18.58 | vkvraju_ | yeah, he had helped before too. But looks like, he might be busy now |
| 17:18.59 | ZogG | !who zgoldberg |
| 17:19.18 | Venemo | ZogG: it is /whois |
| 17:19.20 | javispedro | lindi-: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/gconf2/gconf/gconf-dbus-utils.h |
| 17:19.40 | DocScrutinizer | my answer: kill -9 gconfd, and see what this architecture got you |
| 17:20.00 | ZogG | Venemo no there was bot command |
| 17:20.25 | Venemo | ZogG: those usually begin with ~ |
| 17:20.31 | Venemo | ~nuke ZogG |
| 17:20.31 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at ZogG ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 17:20.33 | ZogG | oh right |
| 17:20.35 | DocScrutinizer | ...while I scp my xchat.conf file to a new machine, with evil grin |
| 17:20.37 | Scelt | frals: -sample seems to be crappy, -scale is better |
| 17:20.39 | ZogG | ~ZogG |
| 17:20.39 | infobot | you are, like, a awesome guy |
| 17:20.47 | ZogG | i am |
| 17:20.51 | Venemo | lol |
| 17:20.53 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you will lose notifications but the daemon will selfrespawn as soon as the next application calls it |
| 17:20.58 | ZogG | this bot is AI, isn't it? |
| 17:21.07 | Venemo | ZogG: I don't think so |
| 17:21.11 | ZogG | ~MohammadAG |
| 17:21.11 | infobot | well, mohammadag is a package maintainer that would jump off a cliff if crashanddie asked him to |
| 17:21.25 | Venemo | ZogG: it just responds with a set of predefined answers |
| 17:21.27 | DocScrutinizer | pfff, so lemme suggest a more natural example: kill -SIGSTOP gconfd |
| 17:21.30 | ZogG | ~zgoldberg |
| 17:21.39 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:21.39 | ZogG | Venemo don't make me sad please |
| 17:21.43 | Venemo | ~Venemo |
| 17:21.52 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: rm -rf $HOME/.xchat* =) |
| 17:21.59 | Venemo | ZogG: see? nothing |
| 17:22.07 | MohammadAG | LOLWUT |
| 17:22.08 | DocScrutinizer | which is close enough to what you'll encounter on a slow system more often than you like |
| 17:22.10 | ZogG | ~zgoldberg is a fake bot with shitty google script that doesn't work :( |
| 17:22.10 | infobot | ZogG: please, watch your language. |
| 17:22.14 | MohammadAG | ~factinfo mohammadag |
| 17:22.14 | infobot | mohammadag -- created by TermanaN900 <~user@123-3-162-89.static.dsl.dodo.com.au> at Thu Aug 19 10:41:18 2010 (40 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by ZogG, 1m 3s ago. |
| 17:22.24 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:22.27 | *** join/#maemo olebrom (~olejakob@89.151.250.74.nteb.no) |
| 17:22.46 | ZogG | Venemo cause you are nothing and i'm awesome, and you just jealous =) |
| 17:22.54 | Venemo | MohammadAG, lol |
| 17:22.57 | ZogG | ~factinfo ZogG |
| 17:22.57 | infobot | zogg -- created by DocScrutinizer <~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Mon May 10 13:53:31 2010 (141 days); it has been requested once, last by ZogG, 2m 18s ago. |
| 17:23.00 | Venemo | ZogG: lol at you too |
| 17:23.00 | MohammadAG | ~forget mohammadag |
| 17:23.00 | infobot | i forgot mohammadag, MohammadAG |
| 17:23.12 | ZogG | DocScrutinizer, =* |
| 17:23.21 | ZogG | MohammadAG cheater =( |
| 17:23.31 | ZogG | MohammadAG and how do i add |
| 17:23.40 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: the difference is my xchat file won't vanish out of itself, while your gconfd is known to eat up 30% of cpu for nothing, and brings systems to a grinding halt, even without somebody doing a kill -sigstop |
| 17:23.54 | *** join/#maemo GAN900 (~ryan@248-35.187-72.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 17:24.01 | satmd | doc has a point there |
| 17:24.04 | MohammadAG | just define one |
| 17:24.24 | MohammadAG | // ~foo is bar |
| 17:24.49 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~dvaske@nat/nokia/x-taobotsswjcigdmn) |
| 17:24.51 | ZogG | /~remember might work as well |
| 17:24.55 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: aren't you confusing gconfd with pulseaudio? =) |
| 17:25.10 | ZogG | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:25.29 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: positively not |
| 17:25.59 | DocScrutinizer | gconf is an abomination, system architecture wise |
| 17:26.20 | DocScrutinizer | invented by winheads |
| 17:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | who think they're smart |
| 17:27.09 | vkvraju_ | gconf, dconf, QSettings --- ohhhhhhh |
| 17:27.10 | Venemo | well, gconf is just another library for storing configuration |
| 17:27.26 | ZogG | Khertan when you read my msg, pm me |
| 17:27.53 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: no, it's a centralized process, for no good reason |
| 17:27.57 | frals | Scelt: using PIL is still loads faster |
| 17:28.07 | Scelt | frals: how can it be :( |
| 17:28.19 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, that's awful |
| 17:28.30 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: there's reasons. but you don't like them. |
| 17:28.31 | DocScrutinizer | yes, indeed |
| 17:28.31 | Scelt | frals: n900 can't be _that_ slow |
| 17:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: no, I proven them wrong in 10 min, see backscroll |
| 17:29.31 | DocScrutinizer | there IS NO good reason to have a centralized config daemon |
| 17:29.44 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, agreed |
| 17:29.49 | liori | DocScrutinizer: agreed :-) |
| 17:29.49 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~edulima@187.75.148.141) |
| 17:30.18 | *** join/#maemo lmoura_ (~lauromour@186.212.118.242) |
| 17:30.27 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: so what you'd do for notifications? |
| 17:30.52 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: also note that Windows "does not have a central daemon" btw (other than the kernel itself) |
| 17:30.55 | DocScrutinizer | why do we need any notifications beyond what inotify can do for everybody? |
| 17:30.56 | *** join/#maemo marciom_ (~marciom@186.212.118.242) |
| 17:31.13 | frals | Scelt: in real time PIL is 5x faster using my random picture from camera resized to 320 |
| 17:31.19 | liori | DocScrutinizer: to make it simpler for programmers |
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| 17:31.24 | *** join/#maemo josemartins (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 17:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | blabla |
| 17:31.38 | DocScrutinizer | wrap it into a lib, done you are |
| 17:31.40 | liori | DocScrutinizer: i'd like to have notifications more granular than "something has changed in file X" |
| 17:31.57 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh, why? |
| 17:32.01 | Scelt | frals: maybe then the image rescaling process isn't the real reason for mms sending to take so long |
| 17:32.01 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, afaik it *is* wrapped into a lib (at least I use it as a lib) |
| 17:32.18 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: so all your argument is that inotify+open+parsing xml file is faster than reading from a unix socket the changed setting? |
| 17:32.29 | GAN900 | WiFi is freaking useless. |
| 17:32.30 | frals | Scelt: no, its slow because in most cases it sets up a new gprs context and does a bunch of dns resolving |
| 17:32.36 | Venemo | GAN900: how so? |
| 17:32.40 | DocScrutinizer | no, my argument is against having a central PROCESS |
| 17:32.54 | Scelt | frals: I understand |
| 17:33.05 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's a central process doing the parsing for many processes. |
| 17:33.13 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.118.242) |
| 17:33.15 | Scelt | frals: then I was wrong. sorry for wasting your time :P |
| 17:33.23 | javispedro | and caching, and notifications, and locking, ... |
| 17:33.23 | DocScrutinizer | the mustn't be bottlenecks when no need exists to implement them |
| 17:33.25 | frals | gprs context is something like 10 seconds, and if in havoc mode then dns is >30 secs usually |
| 17:33.34 | frals | Scelt: heh, no worries :) |
| 17:33.55 | Scelt | frals: why havoc takes over 30 secs? |
| 17:34.07 | frals | dns resolution and setting up routes |
| 17:34.15 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: great, so on a 16 core, how does friggin gconfd scale? |
| 17:34.16 | liori | DocScrutinizer: you seem to like rewriting code every time, don't you? |
| 17:34.21 | Scelt | frals: okay |
| 17:34.27 | frals | Scelt: dont ask me why its that slow but it usually is on gprs |
| 17:34.32 | DocScrutinizer | liori: you seem to ignore the concept of libs |
| 17:34.33 | GAN900 | Venemo, I've never used a WiFi device that approached anything resembling consistent reliability. |
| 17:34.50 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: as much as you want. |
| 17:34.59 | DocScrutinizer | uhu, I see |
| 17:35.00 | liori | DocScrutinizer: so give me a lib which has the same features I mentioned |
| 17:35.39 | Venemo | GAN900: hm, well the one in my laptop is okay, but the wi-fi in the N900 is quite unreliable indeed |
| 17:35.41 | DocScrutinizer | liori: so your point is, however shitty the concept of gconf, you'll use it just because it exists. Good point |
| 17:35.47 | Venemo | GAN900: fortunately, it works most of the time |
| 17:35.55 | Scelt | frals: yeah. I'm just thinking about S60 symbian mms sending and how fast it is compared to fmms. I know it's very different system but that's why I thought that image rescaling must be done some odd way but I guess it's just something more core that there is the difference |
| 17:36.22 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: no, we are telling: give us a sane alternate implementation. |
| 17:36.27 | liori | DocScrutinizer: yes, especially because its abstract api allows to change gconf internals... for example to make it faster; you're free to do so, it is open source |
| 17:36.40 | frals | Scelt: afaik its pretty darn slow there as well but it does it in the background after the user presses send |
| 17:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | liori: now you're getting completely silly |
| 17:36.58 | frals | Scelt: and it doesnt have to do the route shit since im pretty sure symbian can handle 2 networks |
| 17:37.08 | Scelt | frals: oh yes. it goes to "outbox" |
| 17:37.34 | Scelt | frals: then maybe fmms will have outbox feature too in the future :) |
| 17:37.44 | frals | Scelt: i doubt it ;) |
| 17:38.06 | frals | Scelt: should be able to just switch application after pressing send ;) |
| 17:38.09 | DocScrutinizer | meh, fighting adopted nonsense always is a lost battle. I actually couldn't act more stupid than continuing this debate |
| 17:38.16 | Scelt | frals: that's true |
| 17:38.44 | visz | what the ef.. rim playbook netpad has a rear facing camera |
| 17:39.14 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: just wait until you say "microkernels suck" =) |
| 17:39.30 | liori | DocScrutinizer: you could also make a completely new library with the same api as gconf, I'd be grateful |
| 17:39.49 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 17:39.50 | DocScrutinizer | shoots back with a HURD RULEZ |
| 17:40.05 | javispedro | thank god :) |
| 17:40.12 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.118.242) |
| 17:42.41 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 17:42.54 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, unix config files are plain text - first rule of OSI layer 11 |
| 17:43.09 | javispedro | lindi-: trying to get the entire story, seems that somewhere in early gconf history there was a fork where they implemented a sane dbus interface to the daemon. unfortunately, upstream went for the "corba over dbus" branch I just learn of its existence today. Maemo went with the dbus branch. |
| 17:43.30 | ShadowJK | hm, gconf bo longer stores stuff as plain text files? |
| 17:43.38 | javispedro | plain xml files =) |
| 17:43.57 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 17:44.06 | ShadowJK | it could be worse |
| 17:44.13 | *** join/#maemo vkvraju (7aa4aed9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.164.174.217) |
| 17:44.43 | ShadowJK | sqlite or something and we'd be waiting 10s for every bool true to bool false modification to be pushed out to emmc |
| 17:45.20 | Khertan | i prefer the qsetting api : |
| 17:45.21 | Khertan | :) |
| 17:45.31 | Venemo | Khertan: agreed |
| 17:46.00 | Khertan | previously i avoid gconf and use python configparser :) |
| 17:46.16 | *** join/#maemo timeless_pidgin (~timeless@84-231-19-9.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 17:46.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | (10s) couldn't bother less. Who, when, why, and how often is going to do such change on a global config setting anyway |
| 17:46.39 | RST38h | And MOO to you all, dear geeks |
| 17:46.51 | Venemo | hey RST38h |
| 17:46.52 | javispedro | dear, dear. |
| 17:47.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | dear deer |
| 17:47.24 | RST38h | javispedro: anything new and exciting (or horrible enough to be of notion)? |
| 17:47.52 | javispedro | not really |
| 17:49.25 | timeless_pidgin | is in cork ... |
| 17:49.52 | *** join/#maemo ml-something (~no@c-67-164-216-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:50.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: btw locking. F you got more than one process allowed to change same setting var, you quite surely did something wrong |
| 17:50.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | If |
| 17:50.22 | Venemo | is there anyone here who lives in the USA? |
| 17:50.54 | Khertan | is waiting the new Diablo 2 ladder start |
| 17:51.19 | *** join/#maemo timsamoff (~timsamoff@Maemo/community/contributor/timsamoff) |
| 17:51.25 | javispedro | needs to go out |
| 17:51.40 | javispedro | we'll continue the gconf flamewar latter =) |
| 17:51.41 | Venemo | I'd like to know if the new SGU episode is aired yet |
| 17:51.51 | vkvraju | Venemo: So, did U try installing MeeGo on Ur N900? |
| 17:51.55 | javispedro | *later |
| 17:52.36 | Venemo | vkvraju: I haven't... since it is my main phone, too, I would prefer a stable OS :) |
| 17:52.59 | vkvraju | same here. But just was curious enough to give it a try |
| 17:54.27 | Venemo | vkvraju: I'm curious too, but I will resist temptation until it is declared to be stable |
| 17:54.43 | vkvraju | thats fine. |
| 17:54.46 | timeless_pidgin | Venemo: generally there are a few... |
| 17:55.03 | vkvraju | so, none here tried the latest meego image then :( |
| 17:55.29 | timeless_pidgin | Wouldn't that be #meego-n900 ? |
| 17:55.41 | ShadowJK | meego-arm maybe? |
| 17:55.43 | *** join/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:55.46 | Venemo | timeless_pidgin: there are a few what? |
| 17:55.58 | timeless_pidgin | Usa residents |
| 17:56.18 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~chatzilla@a91-155-178-252.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:56.18 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 17:56.31 | vkvraju | no, that is meego-arm. But people seem to be damn busy over there. No one responded |
| 17:56.31 | timeless_pidgin | But why did you ask? |
| 17:56.53 | *** join/#maemo timsamoff (~timsamoff@Maemo/community/contributor/timsamoff) |
| 17:57.11 | Venemo | X-Fade: ping |
| 17:57.14 | Venemo | ~seen X-Fade |
| 17:57.25 | infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo (1d 8h 29m 57s) #meego (1d 8h 29m 57s), last said: 'Morning'. |
| 17:57.27 | vkvraju | I booted meego today but the screen went blank and never recovered back from that state |
| 17:57.52 | timeless_pidgin | Definitely #meego-arm ... |
| 17:57.55 | vkvraju | and people were reported succesful making and receiving calls and SMS's with this latest image |
| 17:58.46 | Venemo | X-Fade: could you please help with this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63042 I'm also getting this issue |
| 17:58.48 | MohammadAG | someone take out the repository mirror from the topic |
| 17:58.48 | MohammadAG | it's dead |
| 18:01.15 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, you killed the repo |
| 18:01.19 | MohammadAG | kills X-Fade :P |
| 18:01.46 | Venemo | ~burn X-Fade |
| 18:01.46 | infobot | ACTION pours gasoline all over X-Fade, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 18:02.10 | vkvraju | ~seen Stskeeps |
| 18:02.14 | infobot | stskeeps is currently on #maemo (2d 11h 42m 12s) #meego (2d 11h 42m 12s). Has said a total of 99 messages. Is idling for 33m, last said: 'andre__: haxx0r'. |
| 18:02.31 | vkvraju | ~seen andre__ |
| 18:02.31 | infobot | andre__ is currently on #maemo (9h 46m 26s) #meego (9h 46m 26s). Has said a total of 12 messages. Is idling for 32m 50s, last said: 'Stskeeps, sorry, cannot resist to try default settings sometimes.'. |
| 18:04.08 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-148-164-19.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:04.26 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 18:04.35 | *** part/#maemo Adeon (~anon@genodeen.net) |
| 18:07.17 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-148-164-19.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:07.18 | *** join/#maemo temp (~temp@nat/trolltech/x-xulzsvcfeoaxvjuz) |
| 18:07.26 | *** join/#maemo schend (~suresh@nat/nokia/x-kpnfmpktfmsbvmao) |
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| 18:09.58 | *** join/#maemo rblank (~rblank@83.219.114.94) |
| 18:11.11 | lindi- | josemartins: that explains why i did not find the code from debian |
| 18:11.38 | *** join/#maemo sge (~username@andesiitti.telemail.fi) |
| 18:11.48 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 18:12.01 | Venemo | re |
| 18:12.46 | Venemo | can I somehow persuade my charger to not make annoying noises? |
| 18:12.59 | kerio | give him a good spanking |
| 18:13.25 | dRbiG | akami does suck all the way |
| 18:13.26 | dRbiG | yhh |
| 18:13.48 | Venemo | kerio: lol |
| 18:13.48 | Venemo | :D |
| 18:14.19 | tobis87 | This doesn't look good: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz |
| 18:14.32 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@88.30.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 18:14.44 | dRbiG | tobis87: for some people it looks just right :) |
| 18:15.49 | *** join/#maemo digitalsurgeon (~ahmad@cs78198088.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:17.49 | tobis87 | Did you try to open it in the browser? |
| 18:18.03 | dRbiG | tobis87: (it doesn't work at all for me here too) |
| 18:20.23 | RST38h | "Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That's how you make atheists." |
| 18:20.25 | RST38h | eeek. |
| 18:21.50 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@5355B9B3.cable.casema.nl) |
| 18:24.17 | *** join/#maemo josemartins (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 18:28.25 | dRbiG | okey, where do the app manager keeps its sources list? |
| 18:28.37 | dRbiG | it seems i can't touch maemo.org repo in the gui |
| 18:28.38 | dRbiG | :S |
| 18:28.40 | dRbiG | crap! |
| 18:29.48 | tobis87 | dRbiG: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list |
| 18:30.14 | *** join/#maemo timeless_pidgin (~timeless@86.47.49.9) |
| 18:30.34 | tobis87 | Btw, there is no gnu version of awk availible? |
| 18:31.02 | timeless_pidgin | Ooh, cork airport has free wifi! |
| 18:31.44 | tobis87 | Oh well, in the sdk repo... |
| 18:31.48 | SpeedEvil | At least that part of the world is not vulnerable to sea-level rise. |
| 18:32.30 | timeless_pidgin | Speedevil? Iirc there's a shortage of cork trees... |
| 18:35.30 | dRbiG | hmm, i changed the path in the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list but in the app manager i still se the old one with the error :S |
| 18:35.59 | timeless_pidgin | That file is generated |
| 18:36.08 | timeless_pidgin | You need to edit the original xml file... |
| 18:36.47 | dRbiG | and where is that? and what is the point of showing me repo details if i can't change them in the gui :/ |
| 18:37.45 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 18:39.53 | timeless_pidgin | You can edit most repos from the gui.. |
| 18:40.07 | timeless_pidgin | Iirc you can disable some of the others... |
| 18:40.14 | *** join/#maemo zommi (~andreas@p57B4B835.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:41.21 | timeless_pidgin | Offhand, it sounds like you're missing something |
| 18:41.30 | timeless_pidgin | What repo is bothering you, and how. |
| 18:41.42 | dRbiG | the main maemo.org repo |
| 18:41.58 | *** join/#maemo sge (~username@62.240.71.4) |
| 18:41.58 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@c-68-39-142-229.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:41.58 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 18:42.04 | dRbiG | akami is broken and _here_ i don't have access to packages list etc. |
| 18:43.00 | dRbiG | timeless_pidgin: http://paste.org/pastebin/view/22936 this are the contents of http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz |
| 18:43.35 | evilbulg1rian | hi, my n900 seems to get very sluggish after 3 days of uptime. can someone help me track what is cauzing this? |
| 18:44.15 | *** join/#maemo teilzeitstudent (~teilzeits@p5DCCD0AF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:44.38 | kerio | evilbulg1rian: it's because you didn't reboot it in 3 days |
| 18:44.44 | lcuk | evilbulg1rian, record output of just afterbootup and then do same once you notice sluggishness |
| 18:44.57 | lcuk | then evaluate each app with extraudinary memory increases |
| 18:45.01 | mgedmin | output of what? |
| 18:45.40 | *** join/#maemo asedeno_work (~asedeno@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com) |
| 18:45.54 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:46.23 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 18:47.07 | DocScrutinizer | ideally htop |
| 18:47.52 | evilbulg1rian | ok thanks |
| 18:47.54 | DocScrutinizer | seems difficult to redirect it to a file plaintext though |
| 18:48.36 | ShadowJK | the nokia guys talk about sp-endurance but I haven't looked at it |
| 18:49.07 | ShadowJK | btw, swap rollover slowdown is so noticeable for me I can usually tell exactly when it happens |
| 18:49.07 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: hmm? |
| 18:49.23 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx) |
| 18:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I was about to suggest a swap swap to evilbulgonerian |
| 18:49.48 | ShadowJK | some set of tools in the sdk tools repo for collecting long time memory use data |
| 18:50.08 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 18:50.20 | kerio | swap swap? |
| 18:50.25 | DocScrutinizer | top -n 1 >log.log |
| 18:50.50 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: swapon $swap2; swapoff $swap1 |
| 18:50.56 | kerio | oh, i see |
| 18:51.00 | kerio | isn't swap a partition? |
| 18:51.08 | DocScrutinizer | it is |
| 18:51.24 | kerio | oh, so you make a file, swapon it, swapoff the partition and then viceversa? |
| 18:51.32 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 18:51.55 | DocScrutinizer | takes some 3 minutes to complete, but really should do wonders |
| 18:52.07 | kerio | meh, i just reboot anyway |
| 18:52.15 | kerio | or rather, shutdown, change battery, boot |
| 18:52.27 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@host86-129-124-181.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:52.27 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@pdpc/supporter/student/celesteh) |
| 18:52.29 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 18:52.50 | kerio | my usb port is still broken btw |
| 18:53.14 | kerio | can i file a bug for "The N900 doesn't repair itself"? |
| 18:53.28 | DocScrutinizer | btw even though it's swap that causes the sluggish device after some days, for me it usually never reaches that state. Seems my swapping isn't that bad |
| 18:53.45 | *** join/#maemo mirr0r (flugel@6d4822d1.ftth.concepts.nl) |
| 18:53.56 | DocScrutinizer | got uptimes of >20days without noticing any problems in system performance |
| 18:54.30 | DocScrutinizer | but then I'm rarely ever using any browser based applications |
| 18:54.33 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 18:54.56 | DocScrutinizer | also got no live wallpapers or other "funny" things, like twitter or skype |
| 18:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: the borg in it are infected by a virus telling them to rest |
| 18:59.16 | kerio | dammit |
| 18:59.17 | kerio | >.< |
| 18:59.18 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: known bug, the borg never worked like expected, on N900 |
| 18:59.59 | *** join/#maemo lsm5 (~lsm5@potential.cse.Buffalo.EDU) |
| 19:03.14 | DocScrutinizer | what's /usr/sbin/browserd -s 1443 -n RTComMessagingServer |
| 19:03.19 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-3-250.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 19:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | it's using ~10% of my mem |
| 19:03.50 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 19:03.57 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-120-3-250.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 19:04.28 | kerio | huh... the messages? |
| 19:05.23 | timeless_pidgin | Gah, ryanair is evil |
| 19:05.48 | timeless_pidgin | Not only do you have to check in online 4 hours in advance |
| 19:06.04 | timeless_pidgin | You actually have to *print* your boarding pass |
| 19:06.22 | kerio | nah, that's not true |
| 19:06.32 | kerio | you can carry the pdf on a cellphone or something |
| 19:06.37 | steinex | hmmmmm. how to add a preset to availability with e.g. busy and a custom text? |
| 19:06.40 | timeless_pidgin | No |
| 19:06.46 | kerio | they specifically require paper? |
| 19:06.47 | kerio | :( |
| 19:06.51 | kerio | poor trees |
| 19:07.08 | timeless_pidgin | As i'm not EU, they had to *stamp* my card as visa/passport checked |
| 19:07.24 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:07.37 | kerio | oh, you suck then |
| 19:07.41 | kerio | unless you're from switzerland |
| 19:07.45 | kerio | (and even then...) |
| 19:08.01 | jacekowski | you don't have to print it |
| 19:08.06 | timeless_pidgin | Thankfully the pdf was on my n900, so i scp'd it to a web server and used a kiosk for .20eu-ecent to download it. And someone else's .50eu-cent to print it |
| 19:08.08 | jacekowski | you can opt for airport check in |
| 19:08.10 | jacekowski | and then they print it |
| 19:08.13 | jacekowski | but it costs |
| 19:08.20 | timeless_pidgin | They charge 40 eur! |
| 19:08.42 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@pdpc/supporter/student/celesteh) |
| 19:08.59 | dRbiG | hey, the point of ryan air is to be cheap, paper in mass quantities costs a lot |
| 19:09.15 | dRbiG | not to mention toner/ink made of unicorn blood ;) |
| 19:10.39 | SpeedEvil | dRbiG: you mean they use ink that's cheaper than normal inkjet ink? |
| 19:10.42 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:10.43 | jacekowski | besides, where are you from? |
| 19:11.20 | visz | regular unicorn? |
| 19:11.48 | dRbiG | SpeedEvil: i mean that if you can run any company and limit the user of paper and printing technologies then you're going to save shitloads of money |
| 19:11.51 | jacekowski | dRbiG: point of ryanair is to make profit |
| 19:12.00 | jacekowski | dRbiG: they make profit on additional services |
| 19:12.12 | dRbiG | jacekowski: they also make profit cutting costs |
| 19:12.16 | timeless_pidgin | "additional" |
| 19:12.28 | timeless_pidgin | This is just an evil hidden fee |
| 19:12.33 | jacekowski | yeah, internet checkin is free |
| 19:12.42 | jacekowski | and most people are using internet check in |
| 19:12.52 | kerio | it's your fault for not being a EU citizen :) |
| 19:12.52 | timeless_pidgin | I *used* internet check in |
| 19:12.58 | kerio | EU is awesome |
| 19:13.02 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: where are you from? |
| 19:13.02 | RST38h | once again, avoid calling yourself "most people" |
| 19:13.04 | dRbiG | i mean, if you don't like printing your ticket then go for an airline that does that for you |
| 19:13.05 | timeless_pidgin | Kerio: you got me there. |
| 19:13.31 | kerio | RST38h: most people that fly ryanair *do* use internet checkin |
| 19:13.38 | kerio | because it's free :) |
| 19:13.43 | dRbiG | you'll pay more to get it printed by them, but it's your choice |
| 19:13.44 | timeless_pidgin | Not free here |
| 19:13.55 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: where are you from? |
| 19:13.56 | timeless_pidgin | It cost me .70eur |
| 19:14.02 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: you never answered that question |
| 19:14.04 | kerio | most people that fly ryanair are EU citizens |
| 19:14.34 | timeless_pidgin | Jacekowksi: most people know the answer to that one... |
| 19:14.34 | kerio | i mean, ryanair is european |
| 19:14.47 | kerio | hmm... 86.47.49.9... |
| 19:14.51 | jacekowski | well, i was thinking you live in IE |
| 19:14.56 | jacekowski | but IE is in EU |
| 19:14.57 | timeless_pidgin | Um, no |
| 19:15.01 | timeless_pidgin | I live in .fi |
| 19:15.09 | timeless_pidgin | I'm *currently* in .ie |
| 19:15.11 | kerio | your /whois says you're in ireland |
| 19:15.12 | kerio | yeah |
| 19:15.20 | jacekowski | but IE is in schengen |
| 19:15.23 | jacekowski | ehh |
| 19:15.23 | timeless_pidgin | And i'm flying to .uk |
| 19:15.24 | jacekowski | FI* |
| 19:15.37 | jacekowski | when and where? |
| 19:15.39 | jacekowski | and what for? |
| 19:15.48 | timeless_pidgin | Oddly not everyone living in a country was born there... |
| 19:15.48 | jacekowski | i'm in UK |
| 19:15.55 | jacekowski | and lcUK is n UK |
| 19:15.57 | dRbiG | huh, relying on /whois is a bad choice ;) |
| 19:15.59 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:16.01 | timeless_pidgin | I'm headed to liverpool for the weekend |
| 19:16.10 | *** join/#maemo jkyro (~jasu@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe23f900-77.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:16.18 | timeless_pidgin | Typically whois for timeless would say washington state iirc |
| 19:16.29 | timeless_pidgin | I've only been to SEA (airport) |
| 19:16.31 | RST38h | is probably in .8h, following the same principle |
| 19:16.34 | kerio | whois for me says unaffiliated/kerio92 :) |
| 19:16.59 | timeless_pidgin | Oh, these days whois for timeless should probably say /mozilla something |
| 19:17.35 | kerio | timeless_pidgin: i wanted to ask you... why can't firefox just allow for codec plugins for <video>? |
| 19:17.47 | timeless_pidgin | Kerio it could |
| 19:17.55 | timeless_pidgin | But it's a terrible ide |
| 19:17.56 | timeless_pidgin | A |
| 19:17.58 | kerio | why? |
| 19:18.15 | timeless_pidgin | Are you familiar w/ codec malware? |
| 19:18.16 | kerio | rely on quicktime/directshow/gstreamer |
| 19:18.33 | kerio | even better, rely on vlc |
| 19:18.37 | timeless_pidgin | Grr |
| 19:18.44 | timeless_pidgin | Vlc is horribly crashy |
| 19:18.55 | timeless_pidgin | I'd sooner rely on cyanide |
| 19:18.58 | kerio | more than flash? |
| 19:19.01 | dRbiG | vlc? where? |
| 19:19.07 | timeless_pidgin | http://www.google.com/m/search?client=ms-nokia-maemo&channel=unibox&q=codec+malware |
| 19:19.09 | kerio | also it never crashed here |
| 19:19.22 | kerio | timeless_pidgin: windows also has viruses |
| 19:19.31 | timeless_pidgin | Kerio : you don't track plugin crashes for firefox / mozilla |
| 19:19.33 | timeless_pidgin | I do |
| 19:19.34 | kerio | will you guys integrate a mandatory antivirus in gecko? |
| 19:19.37 | timeless_pidgin | Please remember that |
| 19:19.54 | timeless_pidgin | Kerio : we have support for system antivirus today |
| 19:20.11 | timeless_pidgin | And we have a default on antimalware / antiphishing system |
| 19:20.25 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: it's not so bad idea |
| 19:20.42 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: i mean, linux has something that can do trusted/secure computing |
| 19:20.45 | kerio | i just don't see why bother having your own video decoder |
| 19:20.50 | kerio | *why you bother |
| 19:20.53 | jacekowski | where program is limited to very small set of system calls |
| 19:20.58 | timeless_pidgin | You're missing key points |
| 19:21.01 | jacekowski | so if it would have like standard ABI |
| 19:21.04 | timeless_pidgin | Why not google a bit? |
| 19:21.14 | jacekowski | where it get's data in, data out |
| 19:21.14 | kerio | for "codec malware"? |
| 19:21.16 | kerio | yeah, i did |
| 19:21.26 | timeless_pidgin | http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2010/01/video_freedom_a.html |
| 19:21.36 | timeless_pidgin | http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2010/01/activex_all_ove.html |
| 19:21.38 | jacekowski | and it would run in sandbox that can't touch anything |
| 19:21.51 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: activex was normal app |
| 19:22.01 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: but if you would sandbox it |
| 19:22.09 | *** join/#maemo ioan (~man@74-93-190-107-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:22.15 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: codec has no need for anything |
| 19:22.35 | jacekowski | data in, data out, some commands in |
| 19:22.53 | tobis87 | dRbiG: root -> echo "deb http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/maemo fremantle free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list; apt-get update && apt-get install vlc |
| 19:23.07 | jacekowski | if it tries to do anything else - kill it with fire |
| 19:23.14 | timeless_pidgin | Jacekowksi : the problem with codecs is the ability to have many codecs which all suck |
| 19:23.28 | kerio | jacekowski: or rather, kill it with 9 |
| 19:23.32 | timeless_pidgin | Instead of having one or two *standard* codecs which don't suck |
| 19:24.01 | timeless_pidgin | If each video provider can pick its own arcane codec |
| 19:24.02 | jacekowski | well, yeah, i was thinking more about CPU compatibility problem |
| 19:24.04 | kerio | i just hope firefox 4 is released soon so i can enable webm on youtube |
| 19:24.16 | timeless_pidgin | Then it can discriminate against all sorts of devices |
| 19:24.17 | derf | jacekowski: Codecs directly receive untrusted input. They are a _huge_ attack surface. |
| 19:24.29 | timeless_pidgin | Oh, derf's here |
| 19:24.33 | Stskeeps | timeless_pidgin: if i was to diagnose a problem where javascript in mozilla/fennec is crashing so much that it doesn't want to start, which test cases would you recommend me to look into? |
| 19:24.36 | timeless_pidgin | I'll leave this with him:) |
| 19:24.42 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:24.44 | Stskeeps | timeless_pidgin: been stuck with this problem for five days now so :/ |
| 19:24.46 | jacekowski | derf: not if codec is sandboxed |
| 19:24.56 | *** join/#maemo andax (~Andreas_B@adsl-178-39-170-157.adslplus.ch) |
| 19:25.00 | timeless_pidgin | Sandboxes are hackable |
| 19:25.06 | timeless_pidgin | Ask apple and google |
| 19:25.08 | kerio | sandboxing adds overhead |
| 19:25.12 | timeless_pidgin | Heck, ask vmware |
| 19:25.13 | kerio | *and* another attack vector |
| 19:25.19 | jacekowski | not really |
| 19:25.32 | jacekowski | i'm just saying sandbox as a general name |
| 19:25.39 | jacekowski | codec shouldn't call any system calls |
| 19:25.55 | kerio | so what happens when a buffer overflow lets an attacker run arbitrary code? |
| 19:26.10 | jacekowski | then he can do fuck all |
| 19:26.23 | jacekowski | codec can't call any syscalls |
| 19:26.28 | jacekowski | or very limited subset |
| 19:26.29 | jacekowski | like |
| 19:26.30 | *** join/#maemo josemartins (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 19:26.30 | jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seccomp |
| 19:26.46 | jacekowski | seccomp is a simple sandboxing mechanism for the Linux kernel. |
| 19:26.47 | jacekowski | It allows a process to make a one-way transition into a "secure" state where it cannot make any system calls except exit(), read() and write() to already-open file descriptors. Should it attempt any other system calls, the kernel will terminate the process. |
| 19:27.24 | timeless_pidgin | What happens if the codec sends bad data to the consumer process? |
| 19:27.54 | kerio | the consumer process goes "wtf are you sayin man" and kills the sandboxed codec? |
| 19:28.11 | timeless_pidgin | ... |
| 19:28.13 | *** join/#maemo teilzeitstudent_ (~teilzeits@p5DCCD08C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:28.23 | timeless_pidgin | You're assuming no bugs anywhere in the system |
| 19:28.28 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: what happens if you have one trusted codec |
| 19:28.29 | kerio | i just want youtube to not suck :( |
| 19:28.31 | timeless_pidgin | That isn't how codecs work |
| 19:28.42 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: and you open bad vide |
| 19:28.42 | *** join/#maemo _0x47 (~slash@p5B25E7D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:28.44 | timeless_pidgin | Jacekowksi fewer pieces of code to audit |
| 19:28.46 | jacekowski | video* |
| 19:28.52 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~George@196.221.201.68) |
| 19:28.56 | jacekowski | you don't have to audit codec |
| 19:29.01 | jacekowski | codec is in safe sandbox |
| 19:29.10 | jacekowski | whatever is it doing it can't do any harm |
| 19:29.22 | jacekowski | so you audit consumer proces instead |
| 19:31.02 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (~Khertan@AAmiens-553-1-176-201.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:31.06 | derf | Keep in mind that read/write are _horrible_ ways to move uncompressed video between processes. |
| 19:31.26 | jacekowski | shm |
| 19:31.30 | jacekowski | loads of possible options |
| 19:31.41 | derf | You're asking for a lot of infrastructre that doesn't exist, is difficult to write and/or test, adds significant overhead to something that's already compute-bound, and _still_ doesn't solve the problem for most people. |
| 19:31.54 | derf | "Most people" being the 50% of the world that still runs XP. |
| 19:32.27 | jacekowski | i'm just proposing solution |
| 19:32.32 | jacekowski | it's not perfect one |
| 19:32.38 | timeless_pidgin | Not to mention the cost of yet another process |
| 19:32.42 | derf | Yes. Proposing solutions is easy. |
| 19:32.48 | jacekowski | but has advantage of not limiting user to one codec |
| 19:32.56 | timeless_pidgin | Using a simple thread is considerably cheaper |
| 19:33.09 | jacekowski | well, then you can use another thread |
| 19:33.13 | timeless_pidgin | How would you feel if you couldn't load video content? |
| 19:33.30 | SpeedEvil | Angry! |
| 19:33.30 | jacekowski | seccomp can sandbox one thread as well |
| 19:33.30 | timeless_pidgin | E.g. Flash10 video content on an n900 today |
| 19:33.36 | SpeedEvil | I would go and kill people! |
| 19:33.40 | SpeedEvil | brb, killing people. |
| 19:34.00 | timeless_pidgin | Allowing the web to have lots of codecs is *bad* _especially_ for minor platforms |
| 19:34.13 | SpeedEvil | mpeg1 |
| 19:34.14 | jacekowski | that would kinda suck |
| 19:34.15 | achipa | what do you mean "would" ? That's a "do" |
| 19:34.20 | SpeedEvil | Is all that is ever needed. |
| 19:34.23 | dRbiG | hmm, is there any cleaner way to set what stuff starts at the boot time than linking in /etc/rc.d ? |
| 19:34.25 | *** join/#maemo larsivi_ (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:34.28 | andax | these 50% still are handled like a minority because more than 50% believes "newer = better" |
| 19:34.29 | achipa | (regarding flash10) |
| 19:34.42 | jacekowski | timeless_pidgin: but if you have very very simple abi then it's same binary that can run on different operating systems |
| 19:34.50 | derf | jacekowski: Hahahaha. |
| 19:34.53 | kerio | some days i wonder... who thought flash was a good idea, seriously |
| 19:34.56 | jacekowski | with only problem being is different cpu |
| 19:34.59 | timeless_pidgin | Lemme give you a virus to go with that |
| 19:35.05 | achipa | only :) |
| 19:35.16 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: the portability problem can be solved by coding it in java. |
| 19:35.17 | achipa | kerio: why, macromedia/adobe, of course |
| 19:35.30 | jacekowski | java sucks |
| 19:35.31 | timeless_pidgin | Maybe a virus installer package which should in theory give you your codec |
| 19:35.35 | achipa | SpeedEvil: that's a 'hahaha' too :) |
| 19:35.36 | jacekowski | .net is better |
| 19:35.41 | derf | SpeedEvil: You mean like http://www.theora.org/cortado/ ? |
| 19:36.20 | achipa | Talk to some Java ME devs about portability, that stuff actually makes Symbian look good :) |
| 19:36.26 | timeless_pidgin | How about a nice .deb w/ a preinst file? |
| 19:36.47 | derf | SpeedEvil: http://img62.imageshack.us/i/bildschirmfoto1eh.png/ |
| 19:37.44 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 19:37.46 | derf | It's actually pretty difficult to get something to run on a VM that old. |
| 19:38.03 | *** join/#maemo andax_ (~Andreas_B@adsl-84-227-102-111.adslplus.ch) |
| 19:38.03 | derf | Current javac output will not run correctly on a 1.1 VM. |
| 19:38.04 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:39.27 | achipa | for some reason all this stuff reminds me of http://www.gifsoup.com/view1/1180955/penalty-fail-o.gif |
| 19:40.36 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@87-95-95-53.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 19:41.25 | andax | did i already mention that "recent flash version seems to block some keyboard shortcuts..." (had a forced relog) |
| 19:41.44 | *** part/#maemo ioan (~man@74-93-190-107-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:43.39 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 19:46.14 | timeless_pidgin | passes through airport security |
| 19:47.06 | tobis87 | Could someone please check for me if there is a symlink called nawk to busybox in /usr/bin on the n900; i installed gawk from the sdk repo and it has overwriten the awk link to busybox, so I just want to make sure there are no missing links. |
| 19:48.42 | SpeedEvil | ls -l /usr/bin/*awk |
| 19:48.42 | SpeedEvil | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 May 25 11:58 /usr/bin/awk -> /bin/busybox |
| 19:49.04 | tobis87 | Ok, thank you... |
| 19:49.34 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~choppa@mnch-d9bdfa80.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:49.37 | ShadowJK | is getting CMT resets |
| 19:49.57 | DocScrutinizer | eeeeek |
| 19:50.05 | tobis87 | The default awk was good enough, so I removed it and then there was no awk left. |
| 19:52.27 | dRbiG | hmm, is it possible somehow to get out of apt which packages have been installed? |
| 19:52.32 | Stskeeps | dpkg -l |
| 19:52.32 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:52.40 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@116.84-48-228.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:52.48 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I'm 99.999% sure that my issues of that sort are SIM related. My SIM works sometimes. |
| 19:53.09 | ShadowJK | hm :/ |
| 19:53.11 | SpeedEvil | I need to phone the provider, and get a new ISM foolishly I called them last time on the affected SIM when it was working |
| 19:53.11 | dRbiG | Stskeeps: thx! |
| 19:53.12 | SpeedEvil | SIM |
| 19:53.17 | ShadowJK | maybe I should reseat the sim |
| 19:53.22 | SpeedEvil | I'm waiting a couple of weeks |
| 19:53.28 | ShadowJK | I forget, is it behind battery? |
| 19:53.33 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: rubbing it with a pencil rubber may help too |
| 19:53.35 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 19:55.36 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 19:57.46 | ShadowJK | arse |
| 19:58.05 | ShadowJK | it actually works a bit longer after going offline mode for a few minutes |
| 19:59.31 | *** join/#maemo msamour (~msamour@unaffiliated/msamour) |
| 19:59.40 | msamour | hi guys |
| 20:00.05 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: "" |
| 20:00.06 | msamour | is anyone having the problem that the maemo.org repository |
| 20:00.13 | msamour | cant update? |
| 20:00.19 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: though moments sometimes work. |
| 20:01.21 | mgedmin | yeah, I gather the Packages file is corrupt again |
| 20:02.45 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-52-105.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 20:02.54 | msamour | mgedmin: what file? |
| 20:03.15 | mgedmin | for extras |
| 20:03.47 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 20:03.56 | timeless_pidgin | Msamour: implementation detail of how repositories work |
| 20:04.02 | msamour | is that on my phone or on the server? |
| 20:04.09 | timeless_pidgin | Basically one of the repositories has a broken index |
| 20:04.15 | delt_zZzZ | is now known as delt |
| 20:04.26 | msamour | ok so is the server |
| 20:04.35 | timeless_pidgin | It'll be fixed (probably) the next time the index is rebuilt |
| 20:04.38 | delt | hello everyone |
| 20:04.39 | timeless_pidgin | Yeah, server |
| 20:04.57 | msamour | I was messing around with the source list and I thought I did something |
| 20:05.13 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 20:05.13 | msamour | timeless_pidgin, mgedmin thnks |
| 20:06.02 | *** join/#maemo marciom_ (~marciom@186.212.118.242) |
| 20:06.16 | delt | ok.... so someone here yesterday mentioned that "maemo 5 'kind of' runs on n810 but its buggy" is "distorting the facts" |
| 20:06.18 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. | Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid *** extras repository is temporarily defect, causing errors on update *** |
| 20:06.20 | delt | may i ask, in which way? |
| 20:06.41 | timeless_pidgin | The error message is unfortunate, i should try to improve my version... |
| 20:06.43 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. | Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid | *** extras repository is temporarily defect, causing errors on update *** |
| 20:06.55 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 20:07.04 | *** join/#maemo lmoura_ (~lauromour@186.212.118.242) |
| 20:07.24 | timeless_pidgin | Docscrutinizer : s/defect/broken/ |
| 20:07.28 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.118.242) |
| 20:07.33 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 20:07.39 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host140-230-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:07.45 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. | Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid | *** extras repository is temporarily broken, causing errors on update *** |
| 20:07.51 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 20:08.09 | timeless_pidgin | :) |
| 20:08.13 | delt | india has an anti-skype policy, or what....? |
| 20:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | please ping me when it's fixed |
| 20:08.20 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host140-230-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:08.25 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 20:08.45 | delt | ok.... so someone here yesterday mentioned that "maemo 5 'kind of' runs on n810 but its buggy" is "distorting the facts" |
| 20:08.48 | timeless_pidgin | Delt: there's probably a talk thread about it |
| 20:08.49 | delt | may i ask, in which way? |
| 20:09.16 | timeless_pidgin | Delt: i'd suggest reading the logs and then directing your question to the someone |
| 20:09.27 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@e81-197-76-73.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:09.47 | delt | timeless_pidgin: well, who is the "someone" in particular isn't really relevant |
| 20:09.48 | *** join/#maemo drizztbsd_ (~quassel@82.84.121.151) |
| 20:10.02 | timeless_pidgin | Right, so of the .uk people, anyone in/around Liverpool? |
| 20:10.23 | timeless_pidgin | I'll be there by 11pm today through sometime Sunday. .. |
| 20:10.24 | delt | i just wanted to ask: what's the most recent STABLE (and overall recommended) version of maemo i should install on the n810? |
| 20:10.55 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@c-68-39-142-229.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:10.55 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 20:11.41 | timeless_pidgin | I personally would just use the last diablo build (probably the internal unshipped one...). And install a decent web browser |
| 20:11.42 | delt | (doing a search for that on the web will probably give me results that date from 2007) |
| 20:11.53 | timeless_pidgin | Probably the last Fennec that worked on Diablo |
| 20:12.11 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 20:12.12 | timeless_pidgin | * this isn't the last fennec build for diablo, the last couple didn't work :o |
| 20:12.31 | timeless_pidgin | (someone used an updated toolchain in a *bad* way) |
| 20:12.37 | *** join/#maemo mirr0r (flugel@6d4822d1.ftth.concepts.nl) |
| 20:13.39 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p5B1066B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:13.44 | delt | heya nox- |
| 20:13.51 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@81-178-192-93.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 20:14.05 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 20:14.07 | timeless_pidgin | Some images can be run from an sd card, so you could try before you commit |
| 20:14.21 | delt | could if i had an sd card |
| 20:14.32 | timeless_pidgin | That said, for this trip I'm using a single n900 |
| 20:14.57 | timeless_pidgin | I actually bought a 2gb micro sd card for about 15gbp earlier on this trip |
| 20:15.14 | lardman | RST38h: you about? |
| 20:15.16 | timeless_pidgin | It didn't have a mini adapter, but... |
| 20:15.19 | lardman | evening all btw |
| 20:15.35 | nox- | moin delt, # |
| 20:15.55 | *** join/#maemo drizztbsd (~quassel@dynamic-adsl-78-12-183-116.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:16.48 | delt | nox-: what would be the latest/stable/recommended version of maemo for n810 as of recently? |
| 20:17.11 | delt | and if RTFM, how would one go about finding out that information? =) |
| 20:17.28 | mgedmin | delt, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com |
| 20:17.39 | mgedmin | hmm |
| 20:18.05 | mgedmin | yes, look under Maemo releases |
| 20:18.08 | mgedmin | for the N810 |
| 20:18.15 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.118.242) |
| 20:19.30 | delt | ah thanks |
| 20:20.06 | mgedmin | you can find the product ID in the control panel (About Device), no need to turn it off and look under the battery |
| 20:20.18 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 20:20.30 | nox- | just found a workaround for the less return key problem: -no-keypad :) |
| 20:20.33 | mgedmin | oh, it actually says so, if I read the text instead of looking at the picture/checklist |
| 20:20.39 | delt | uh.... no need to... remove batterwhat? |
| 20:20.55 | mgedmin | is talking about http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php |
| 20:20.55 | timeless_pidgin | makes partial plans for liverpool :) |
| 20:20.55 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@212.34.238.160) |
| 20:21.39 | timeless_pidgin | Nox: ctrl-j? |
| 20:21.45 | delt | oh ok... misread at first ... right now its easier for me to look under the battery =) |
| 20:22.17 | nox- | timeless_pidgin, that works too but an alias for less is better i think... |
| 20:22.18 | delt | product id, that would be something like RX-44 ...? |
| 20:22.51 | delt | says model: n810, type: RX-44 |
| 20:23.22 | nox- | timeless_pidgin, and i also found a statusbar `applet' to turn repeat on/off for `regular' keys... :) |
| 20:23.41 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 20:24.26 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (~Khertan@AAmiens-553-1-176-201.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:24.36 | nox- | timeless_pidgin, so now i can eg scroll by holding down return (or j ofc) |
| 20:25.23 | timeless_pidgin | Is this n900? |
| 20:25.28 | nox- | yep |
| 20:25.49 | nox- | alias less='less -no-keypad' |
| 20:26.05 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-79-44.inter.net.il) |
| 20:26.15 | timeless_pidgin | updates fennec for the first time in over two weeks |
| 20:26.28 | nox- | oh is there an update out for that? |
| 20:26.49 | timeless_pidgin | There's a nightly repository |
| 20:26.51 | delt | oh ok... the site asks me for the wlan mac-address |
| 20:26.51 | timeless_pidgin | You can update every day :) |
| 20:26.52 | nox- | ah ok |
| 20:27.00 | delt | mgedmin: is that what you meant by product ID? |
| 20:27.00 | nox- | link? :) |
| 20:27.15 | mgedmin | delt, that page tells you everything |
| 20:27.15 | nox- | and are the nightlies stable `enough'? |
| 20:27.19 | timeless_pidgin | Delt: that's the thing under the battery or in the control panel |
| 20:27.35 | mgedmin | WLAN MAC is used as the product code for the N810 |
| 20:27.35 | timeless_pidgin | Nox: i can't recall having problems with them... |
| 20:27.50 | mgedmin | s/product code/product id/ |
| 20:27.53 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@2.91.231.29) |
| 20:27.56 | mgedmin | thank you, infobot |
| 20:27.59 | nox- | hm that sound encouraging, do you happen to have the link? |
| 20:28.03 | nox- | timeless_pidgin |
| 20:28.09 | timeless_pidgin | Unique device id :) |
| 20:28.43 | timeless_pidgin | Um, not offhand, the install file is definitely somewhere |
| 20:28.59 | delt | ok got it thanks |
| 20:29.00 | timeless_pidgin | Try mfinkle's blog or blassey or ask sp3000? |
| 20:29.16 | timeless_pidgin | My flight should be boarding now... |
| 20:30.55 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 20:32.32 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@192.117.23.52.static.012.net.il) |
| 20:32.55 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@pD9EAFF95.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:32.58 | delt | (assuming those "o" looking characters are zeroes.... cant copy/paste from a sticker heh) |
| 20:33.29 | delt | "can't grep dead trees" =) |
| 20:35.06 | mgedmin | yes, they're zeros |
| 20:35.22 | mgedmin | it's a hex number, so just 0...9 A...F |
| 20:35.36 | Mousey | [0-9a-fA-F] |
| 20:36.35 | lolloo | Hello. how do I know through my N900 someone connected to my phone? |
| 20:37.14 | delt | oh duh *slaps forehead* .... so a 124mb .bin file, does that sound like what im looking for? |
| 20:37.39 | delt | i'd guess at least its for the right device, seeing that the filename starts with rx-44 |
| 20:39.34 | nox- | timeless_pidgin, godspeed :) (or do you say something else to someone going to fly?) |
| 20:41.28 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@186.212.118.242) |
| 20:41.55 | ShadowJK | wishes cmt would say why it's raising rst |
| 20:42.56 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@186.212.118.242) |
| 20:44.09 | *** part/#maemo Venemo (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 20:45.32 | dRbiG | errm.. is there any shell trick command to rebuild the menu? |
| 20:45.57 | dRbiG | i uninstalled mymenu or sth like that and now i have like 14 icons ;) |
| 20:46.36 | dRbiG | oh great, shortcuts now don't work too |
| 20:47.00 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: talk to jacekowski - he might know about debugging implemented somehow in cellmo |
| 20:47.13 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@196.221.65.234) |
| 20:48.07 | *** join/#maemo jd (~jd@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 20:48.09 | *** join/#maemo fecub (~fecub@dsdf-4d0a51de.pool.mediaWays.net) |
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| 20:51.51 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@187.113.114.48) |
| 20:52.20 | lolloo | how can I check if someone conneted to my N900 with SSH? |
| 20:52.37 | delt | Flashed it. THERE!! SUCCESS!!!!@#%**&%( |
| 20:53.38 | dRbiG | yhh |
| 20:54.40 | MohammadAG | I got one weird error today |
| 20:55.03 | MohammadAG | All telephony functions, including emergency errors, are disabled, you might have to reboot your device to recover |
| 20:55.08 | MohammadAG | or something along the lines of that |
| 20:55.29 | dRbiG | mhm, and i have now nothing in the menu for launching apps |
| 20:55.31 | dRbiG | great |
| 20:55.38 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.113.114.48) |
| 20:55.46 | MohammadAG | osso-connectivity-ui.mo:All telephony functions, including emergency calls, are disabled due to a communication error. To recover, you might have to reboot the device. |
| 20:56.00 | lardman | mohammadAG: nice :) |
| 20:56.12 | MohammadAG | why did I say emergency errors |
| 20:56.17 | MohammadAG | realizes he's a bit tired |
| 20:56.19 | *** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 20:56.55 | delt | damn, battery was almost empty when i flashed the new firmware!! ....charging now |
| 20:57.51 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: I'd prefer to fix the F***NG broken CR key mapping on maemo, rather than to find a workarounf for each and every command that doesn't like NK-ENTER instead of CR |
| 21:01.44 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, :) |
| 21:01.53 | nox- | what other apps are affected? |
| 21:02.19 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 21:02.22 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, probably quite some |
| 21:03.00 | DocScrutinizer | ahh, and for the 'status bar applet', this is simpler: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/ext_kb_repeat_enabled --type boolean true |
| 21:04.07 | nox- | yes, but maybe i want to switch back to the original behaviour sometime... (tho that hasnt happened yet) |
| 21:04.26 | *** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@82-168-81-130.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 21:04.47 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 21:05.49 | DocScrutinizer | grr wiki is down? |
| 21:06.28 | DocScrutinizer | aah, no. After 5 times clicking save and waiting 90s, it finally saved the page |
| 21:06.52 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: s/true/false/ if you ever want to go back |
| 21:07.46 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, would x apps be affected by the return key problem too? bc otherwise i guess one could just patch xterm to return a normal return character in keypad mode (or just ignore ks/ke completely?) |
| 21:08.27 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, yes i meant `easily w/o having to remember a long command' :) |
| 21:08.42 | dRbiG | anyone any idea how to rebuild the app menu list? |
| 21:08.43 | DocScrutinizer | why patch xterm, if you can fix the mapping? |
| 21:08.54 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 21:09.38 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, sure if that works... |
| 21:09.51 | *** join/#maemo Carneque (~bigbabyje@ip66-110-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 21:10.18 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I fear you have to UNpatch xterm, to work correctly with normal CR |
| 21:10.57 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, i just see that keypad return in an xterm on my desktop pc doesnt send those weird esc sequences either... |
| 21:11.05 | nox- | in less i mean |
| 21:11.44 | lardman | worries that qtcreator.bin is sat at 100%+ CPU usage still |
| 21:12.03 | *** part/#maemo Milo- (milo@tux.fi) |
| 21:12.14 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: I have no idea what exactly has been screwed there, but obviously they did it thoroughly |
| 21:12.58 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, this only happens in less bc less sends ks/ke, and i dont know how useful keypad mode is on n900's spartan kbd anyway :) |
| 21:13.38 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: eh? it quite obviously affects every app that uses raw keycodes |
| 21:13.57 | nox- | ah, out of xterm too? |
| 21:14.11 | *** join/#maemo digitalsurgeon (~ahmad@cs78198088.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:14.35 | DocScrutinizer | such as editors, IRC clients :-), several cmdline programs like less and others that wait for keystrokes |
| 21:15.00 | nox- | console ones? |
| 21:15.06 | nox- | or gui? |
| 21:15.18 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.113.114.48) |
| 21:15.25 | DocScrutinizer | no idea |
| 21:15.30 | nox- | hm |
| 21:15.34 | DocScrutinizer | I'm talking bout terminal here |
| 21:15.43 | nox- | ah |
| 21:16.09 | nox- | well there the breakage seems to be in keypad mode |
| 21:16.13 | DocScrutinizer | I expect we'll see a can of worms popping open if this ever gets fixed properly |
| 21:16.25 | nox- | :) |
| 21:17.16 | DocScrutinizer | heard about vnc and whatnot having problems, and once it's fixed at rootcause level, all the apps that work now will break then :-S |
| 21:17.28 | nox- | but if this affects terminal apps only it could be patched in xterm |
| 21:17.33 | nox- | oh |
| 21:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | a typical case of "we did it wrong for xy on 770 back in 1990, so let's keep backward compatibility and mess up everything so it all behaves similarly fubar" |
| 21:18.41 | nox- | heh |
| 21:18.48 | *** join/#maemo j3j5_ (~quassel@dhcp-077-251-014-004.chello.nl) |
| 21:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | then call this "differentiation" :-P |
| 21:20.48 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-52-105.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 21:20.53 | delt | @topic (extras repo) which would be why the "maemo-extras" is disabled (greyed out) on the tablet? wild guess -) |
| 21:21.20 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-76-170-247-154.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 21:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | nope, usually it gets red when an error occurs |
| 21:21.30 | DocScrutinizer | not disabled |
| 21:21.41 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 21:22.49 | ShadowJK | cleaned sim card contacts with some unknown heavy solvent |
| 21:22.58 | DocScrutinizer | eew |
| 21:23.05 | delt | (connected to charger) ... i just saw it a minute ago, 3 other "catalogs" and the 4th one maemo-extras greyed out |
| 21:23.11 | ShadowJK | seems to vaguely work... back batt seems stone dead though |
| 21:23.15 | DocScrutinizer | the rubber method is clearly the nicer one |
| 21:23.16 | delt | (in application manager) |
| 21:24.02 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, only had tissue and light petroleum derived grease remover |
| 21:24.05 | delt | ...so, india has an anti-skype policy, or skype has an anti-india policy? |
| 21:24.24 | jacekowski | sort of both |
| 21:24.30 | jacekowski | india has antiencryption policy |
| 21:24.39 | jacekowski | and skype has antiantiencryption policy |
| 21:24.52 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 21:25.00 | delt | ahhhh fixed FINALLY *kicks back with a good cold one* |
| 21:25.18 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 21:25.19 | Arkenoi | skype antiantiencryption is not reliable |
| 21:25.24 | Arkenoi | we need zRTP |
| 21:25.51 | delt | ok, i can ping the tablet (which is charging in the other room) |
| 21:26.16 | nox- | http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/27wiretap.html?_r=1 |
| 21:26.19 | delt | so there's no telnet/sshd by default? |
| 21:26.24 | DocScrutinizer | "update partially failed, some repositories aren't available. click details for details" -> "failing repos: maemo.org, tools" |
| 21:27.04 | DocScrutinizer | both got a (!) instead of globe as an icon in catalogs menu |
| 21:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | not grayed out though |
| 21:28.06 | DocScrutinizer | clicking one of the (!) catalogs opens a red error log at bottom of usual settings screen |
| 21:28.15 | DocScrutinizer | not deactivated |
| 21:28.52 | delt | jacekowski: hehehe |
| 21:29.30 | delt | and i suppose india would have retaliated with antiantiantiencryption policy by now? =-) |
| 21:30.07 | delt | 1:30 until meeting... time to relax a bit |
| 21:30.18 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@79-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 21:30.44 | DocScrutinizer | but HAM gone mad about the borked repos? it wants to update load applet 0.4.6-5 to version 0.4.6-5 (sic!) |
| 21:31.03 | delt | boréale beer is good. |
| 21:31.05 | *** join/#maemo chrisak (~chrisak@c-98-208-86-18.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:31.25 | nox- | delt, see my log, obama now wants something similar... |
| 21:31.30 | nox- | s/log/link/ |
| 21:31.55 | delt | obama bin laden? |
| 21:32.09 | nox- | :) |
| 21:32.13 | delt | <--- REALLY not into politics |
| 21:32.47 | MohammadAG | politics suck |
| 21:32.54 | DocScrutinizer | idiots suck |
| 21:32.56 | delt | i just know mr.bean is the new vatican "pope" mascot |
| 21:33.16 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, politicians* :P |
| 21:33.32 | delt | http://www.deimos.ca/funnyhaha/nouveau_pape.jpg |
| 21:34.00 | DocScrutinizer | if encryption is outlawed, we need steganography |
| 21:34.35 | delt | vaccuums suck |
| 21:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | will they never learn they got no chance to *forbid* |
| 21:34.40 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-79-44.inter.net.il) |
| 21:34.46 | RST38h | Sorry folks, but where do I find postinst scripts? |
| 21:34.53 | RST38h | for installed packages |
| 21:34.57 | DocScrutinizer | in the package? |
| 21:35.16 | MohammadAG | /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst |
| 21:35.21 | RST38h | thanks |
| 21:35.46 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure if they are deleted after successful execution. Maybe look into /var/apt/cache or sth like that |
| 21:36.15 | RST38h | OMG, idiots |
| 21:36.21 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 21:36.30 | RST38h | spells it: Instinctiv. People. Are. Idiots. |
| 21:36.40 | DocScrutinizer | idiots suck |
| 21:36.45 | RST38h | They wrote postinst script in freaking PYTHON! |
| 21:36.51 | DocScrutinizer | oh, I already mentioned this |
| 21:36.52 | RST38h | So, no Python,no carrot |
| 21:36.56 | MohammadAG | that'll be $50 |
| 21:36.56 | MohammadAG | hand them over, NAO |
| 21:36.58 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:37.03 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHAAAAHAAAAAAA |
| 21:37.05 | RST38h | Have you mentioned it in their thread? |
| 21:37.07 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:37.41 | RST38h | Actually, to be exact, you can insert their carrot all right, but its removal is somewhat complicated |
| 21:37.43 | MohammadAG | <RST38h> They wrote postinst script in freaking PYTHON! |
| 21:37.44 | DocScrutinizer | people's thread? |
| 21:37.47 | MohammadAG | LMFAO |
| 21:37.48 | marmoute | RST38h: for what package is it ? |
| 21:37.52 | nox- | there's a famous quote, `if privacy is outlawed only outlaws will have privacy' |
| 21:37.54 | nox- | :) |
| 21:37.54 | RST38h | instinctiv |
| 21:37.56 | MohammadAG | infobot, $50 |
| 21:37.57 | infobot | ACTION takes the cash and sucks mohammadag off |
| 21:38.14 | delt | infobot, $0.05 |
| 21:38.24 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: exactly |
| 21:38.26 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B_ (~csb@78.149.141.129) |
| 21:38.29 | *** join/#maemo digitalsurgeon1 (~ahmad@cs78198088.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:38.32 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 21:39.18 | delt | nox: heard that one about guns, but guess it holds true for anything, heh |
| 21:39.25 | MohammadAG | night peeps |
| 21:39.48 | delt | pight neeps MohammadAG |
| 21:40.05 | DocScrutinizer | nox-: until recently USA just forbid exporting of PGP code, so their ECHELON can better do industry spy on western europe countries. Now they gone mad and forbid for their own people :-S |
| 21:40.25 | RST38h | gathers some rotten tomatoes and heads to the tmo |
| 21:41.03 | nox- | DocScrutinizer, oh yeah the 56bit des and `encryption == munitions' nonsense... |
| 21:41.08 | delt | human. politics. are. a. failure. 6000 years of history have proven that time and time again and countless times again and again |
| 21:41.10 | lardman | night chaps |
| 21:41.40 | DocScrutinizer | plus the NSA key in windows :-P |
| 21:41.48 | nox- | right |
| 21:42.47 | delt | mkay, so let's say i want to compile /usr/src/myfavoriteproject/ to run it on the n810 ..... i need a sdk right? |
| 21:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | which has been explained with even higher plausibility than the whole UFO nonsense |
| 21:43.24 | nox- | haha |
| 21:43.31 | DocScrutinizer | wut? /usr/src ?? |
| 21:43.51 | delt | or /tmp/src/whateverproject |
| 21:44.01 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest first thing you do is copy it to ~/myproj/src |
| 21:44.11 | *** join/#maemo perlite (~perlite@111-240-219-157.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 21:44.19 | *** join/#maemo sivang (~sivan@unaffiliated/sivang) |
| 21:44.40 | delt | yeah, /usr/src only has a very few select projects =) (which my normal user account have rwx of course) |
| 21:45.01 | delt | s/have/has/ |
| 21:45.13 | DocScrutinizer | you're not supposed to have any w on /usr |
| 21:45.41 | delt | so root is in trouble.... |
| 21:45.54 | DocScrutinizer | actually nobody usually has to write to /usr, you could even mount r/o |
| 21:46.19 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 21:46.20 | delt | yeah, someone else told me that not long ago. |
| 21:46.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 21:46.21 | infobot | i heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 |
| 21:46.29 | DocScrutinizer | see links up ther |
| 21:47.29 | delt | tbh im the only one using my entire network (this side of the gateway) so unless someone guesses the exact name of something in /usr/src and comes up with some http hack that exploits it through apache or something similar... |
| 21:47.40 | *** part/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B2884C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:47.53 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, thanks! cleaning contacts has made it hellovalot more stable |
| 21:47.58 | delt | but, yeah i admit, its still a kind of bad habit if i become a network admin some day |
| 21:48.39 | DocScrutinizer | just in case you didn't know (and as it seems I'm the last person on this planet to remember) usr is not user, it's something like unix system resources |
| 21:48.42 | delt | s/become/am hired as/ |
| 21:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | even supplementary |
| 21:49.11 | DocScrutinizer | or sharable |
| 21:49.22 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: I always knew it wasn't user, but did not know what it is |
| 21:49.47 | delt | my unix classes were in french, they never taught us that :/ |
| 21:50.28 | delt | and being ignorant, i always assumed it meant "user" |
| 21:51.05 | delt | so, me learn other thing new today! |
| 21:51.43 | sivang | how does sb manages to run autotools stuff unmodified for cross compile? I found and old slideswork the explains that this is what makes cross complication not hard. |
| 21:51.56 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: :) |
| 21:52.11 | sivang | ShadowJK: address book? |
| 21:52.36 | sivang | "Autotools-based build scripts can be run on Scratchbox without modification |
| 21:52.36 | sivang | when building for the target |
| 21:52.38 | sivang | " |
| 21:52.40 | delt | so, to cross compile /tmp/src/someproject/ to install on the tablet... i need a SDK right? |
| 21:52.52 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: unvarnished paper (such as of some business cards) is a really good contact cleaner |
| 21:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | hard and rough enough for dirt, still gentle to contacts |
| 21:53.54 | sivang | delt: yes, either scratchbox or NokiaQtSDK |
| 21:54.07 | DocScrutinizer | you won't need the SDK for long. your /tmp project will be gone after next boot :-D |
| 21:54.10 | delt | Qt as in, the kde widget kit? |
| 21:54.31 | delt | of my pc? |
| 21:55.26 | delt | not /tmp on the n810!! |
| 21:55.40 | ShadowJK | sivang, what? |
| 21:55.45 | sivang | delt: you install NokiaQtSDK onto te host, the pc |
| 21:55.49 | *** join/#maemo DrWilken (~user@0x4dd5c0f1.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 21:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | delt: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#TMPTEMPORARYFILES |
| 21:56.01 | *** join/#maemo yofel_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/yofel) |
| 21:56.01 | sivang | ShadowJK: "cleaning contacts" -> I thought it was in osso-addressbook |
| 21:56.05 | ShadowJK | sivang, no gprs was dropping all the time, and also signal alltogether |
| 21:56.11 | delt | and it modifies my /etc/rc.* stuff to rm -rf /tmp/* on boot? |
| 21:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | delt: even worse: Programs must not assume that any files or directories in /tmp are preserved between invocations of the program. |
| 21:56.32 | ShadowJK | I cleaned the physical contacts on the physical sim card |
| 21:56.43 | delt | DocScrutinizer: even my shell scripts don't |
| 21:56.49 | sivang | ShadowJK: ah! |
| 21:57.07 | sivang | delt: why do you want to put your source in /tmp ? |
| 21:57.20 | delt | sivang: to compile, install, and rm -rf |
| 21:57.25 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, it's complete nonsense |
| 21:57.34 | delt | i even (usually) have a /tmp/src/ directory |
| 21:57.36 | DrWilken | Hi, anybody looking into the Extras repository problem? |
| 21:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 21:58.03 | DocScrutinizer | DrWilken: /topic |
| 21:58.06 | delt | DocScrutinizer: that "ouch" has anything to do with my /tmp/src ...by any chance? |
| 21:58.12 | delt | oh ok |
| 21:58.14 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 21:58.26 | DocScrutinizer | delt: of course |
| 21:58.26 | DrWilken | :D |
| 21:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | what else |
| 21:58.45 | delt | so ~/src/myproject..... *DUCK* |
| 21:58.49 | lindi- | delt: /tmp/src kind of fails in a multiuser system :) |
| 21:58.52 | *** part/#maemo digitalsurgeon1 (~ahmad@cs78198088.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:59.12 | delt | OK, I KNOW im not supposed to have read, write, or execute access on my own ~ !!!!!! |
| 21:59.13 | DocScrutinizer | suggests ~/myproject/src |
| 21:59.26 | DocScrutinizer | or ~/projects/myproj/src |
| 21:59.43 | delt | now lets say several user accounts need to work on that |
| 21:59.53 | nox- | then you use a vcs |
| 22:00.04 | DrWilken | I'm guessing that's a yes then... ;) C y'all... |
| 22:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | then create a pseudouser in /home/ourProj |
| 22:00.56 | delt | nox-: is that a typo and you meant "cvs"?? |
| 22:01.07 | DocScrutinizer | and add this pseudouser to every team menbers groups |
| 22:01.08 | delt | on the same machine/server let's say =) |
| 22:01.22 | lindi- | delt: version control system, not just cvs but something else too |
| 22:01.24 | nox- | delt, actually not, but cvs is one of them (an old one tho :) |
| 22:02.05 | sivang | delt: vcs is "versoin control system" |
| 22:02.06 | *** join/#maemo chrisak (~chrisak@c-98-208-86-18.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:02.07 | delt | except the c stands for concurrent, or else it wouldnt make sense in normal spoken/written english |
| 22:02.41 | delt | anymore than sivang's last sentence |
| 22:02.45 | delt | :) |
| 22:03.00 | sivang | oh right :) |
| 22:03.14 | nox- | but yeah i meant version control system |
| 22:03.51 | nox- | cvs, svn, git, hg... |
| 22:03.55 | sivang | bzr |
| 22:03.59 | nox- | that too |
| 22:04.00 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 22:04.02 | delt | hg is mercurial right? |
| 22:04.05 | nox- | yeah |
| 22:04.05 | sivang | yep |
| 22:04.09 | sivang | damn good one |
| 22:04.23 | delt | so NokiaQtSDK .... Qt means the GUI toolkit (as used by kde)?? |
| 22:04.37 | DocScrutinizer | yep, basically |
| 22:04.40 | sivang | delt: not only for GUI, it is a full abstraction on top of the underlying platform |
| 22:04.45 | delt | yeah, thats what we're using for schism tracker... works quite well. |
| 22:05.05 | delt | and maemo's UI runs on top of that? |
| 22:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | eventually |
| 22:05.28 | sivang | delt: not quite it is actually using gtk+ in the core, and apps are encouraged to use qt |
| 22:05.37 | sivang | is this right ? |
| 22:05.38 | DocScrutinizer | so with Qt you got the future |
| 22:05.43 | delt | eventually as in "somewhere in the food chain" or as in "we're working on fucking everything up"....? |
| 22:05.53 | sivang | delt: ? |
| 22:06.48 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (~Khertan@AAmiens-553-1-176-201.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:06.50 | sivang | interestingly this slides say that SB2 support work is ongoing. |
| 22:06.55 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: is that so? |
| 22:07.06 | delt | personally i prefer gtk apps over kde/qt, and i also prefer to write in good old standard C compared to this mutant hideous deformed monstrosity called C++ |
| 22:07.08 | DocScrutinizer | no idea |
| 22:07.45 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 22:07.51 | sivang | delt: actually, gtk is not standard C per se ;) |
| 22:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | and Qt doesn't force you in a all C++ style either |
| 22:09.01 | sivang | delt: yes, it is actually adding/modifying standard C++ to be more like a late binding language, some of the things there remind me of niceties in Python as an example |
| 22:09.06 | delt | point taken into account, and to be revised/considered sometime in the next millenia. |
| 22:09.31 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: we should work in Forum Nokia ;) |
| 22:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | sighs |
| 22:10.10 | DocScrutinizer | we should receive a care packet from Nokia every 3 days, if we even considered to do |
| 22:10.26 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: care, as in social care? ;) |
| 22:10.40 | DocScrutinizer | as in post-WW-II |
| 22:10.44 | sivang | hehe |
| 22:11.15 | DocScrutinizer | with some candybars, a glass of honey, some coffee and cigarettes |
| 22:11.27 | delt | and beer |
| 22:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | yessss |
| 22:11.49 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: that's a bit harsh though don't you think? |
| 22:11.51 | sivang | ;) |
| 22:11.56 | DocScrutinizer | though I think I don't like the beer Nokia will send from Helsinki |
| 22:12.18 | sivang | heard the beer is quite good. |
| 22:12.34 | DocScrutinizer | got better one here, from my brewery next door |
| 22:12.41 | delt | except cigarettes, i dont smoke =) though ppl smoking around me never bothers me |
| 22:12.48 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: well, it is hard to top you - you are in Scotland. |
| 22:13.01 | DocScrutinizer | err nope |
| 22:13.01 | *** join/#maemo alekss (~alekss@95.68.122.118) |
| 22:13.08 | delt | <--- in Scotlanada |
| 22:13.08 | sivang | hrm |
| 22:13.12 | DocScrutinizer | Franconia |
| 22:13.18 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: ah , okay |
| 22:13.29 | sivang | I was confusing you with SpeedEvil ? |
| 22:13.37 | DocScrutinizer | the area where a brewery per 1000 residents or so |
| 22:13.46 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 22:14.41 | sivang | wonders what ended with the gconf discussion, I had to run away from the office just then. |
| 22:15.01 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: where in Franconia? |
| 22:15.01 | DocScrutinizer | probably here in franconia we got more breweries than all the rest of this planet together |
| 22:15.43 | DocScrutinizer | Mittelfranken |
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| 22:15.59 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: close to the french border? |
| 22:15.59 | delt | spricht jemand hier deutsch? |
| 22:15.59 | DocScrutinizer | ~weather EDDN |
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| 22:16.16 | delt | ich hab ein wenig gelernt |
| 22:16.26 | DocScrutinizer | nope, not even infobot |
| 22:16.28 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: 10c, great |
| 22:16.39 | DocScrutinizer | brrrrrr |
| 22:16.49 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: don;t ask, I'm a winter type. |
| 22:17.10 | delt | he is, raeli? |
| 22:17.11 | delt | hehe |
| 22:17.31 | delt | "use a pun, go to jail" :D |
| 22:19.37 | delt | ok, better get ready for meeting... cya all |
| 22:19.38 | *** part/#maemo delt (1000@ftp.deimos.ca) |
| 22:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | cya |
| 22:20.04 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@217.80-202-97.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:22.31 | sivang | what a nice pic- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_BW_4.JPG |
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| 22:29.09 | sivang | -> (night, sleep); |
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| 22:30.22 | h4waii | Argh. 4 random reboots today. |
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| 22:52.41 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
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| 22:59.56 | lolloo | guys, how can I know if someone is connected to my SSH server on my N900? |
| 23:00.42 | mgedmin | would 'w' tell you? |
| 23:00.47 | jpinx-eeepc | users ? |
| 23:00.48 | mgedmin | or 'who'? |
| 23:00.55 | kerio | why... |
| 23:01.06 | kerio | you should never doubt that |
| 23:01.07 | mgedmin | don't make fun of hoary unix command names |
| 23:01.18 | jpinx-eeepc | lolloo: how would they connect ? Bluetooth? |
| 23:01.22 | kerio | if you are, then it means that your security is crap |
| 23:01.27 | lolloo | internet |
| 23:01.45 | kerio | mgedmin: huh? i know of w and users |
| 23:02.07 | mgedmin | I didn't know of /usr/bin/users, but I know of /usr/bin/who |
| 23:02.11 | lolloo | if they are connected to me wirelessly via SSH how would I Know their IP? |
| 23:02.23 | mgedmin | w/who will tell you |
| 23:02.29 | h4waii | netstat |
| 23:03.01 | lolloo | shall I type it in X-terminal? |
| 23:03.10 | nidO | yes, just type who |
| 23:03.15 | nidO | and it shows you logged in sessions |
| 23:05.40 | lolloo | who command didnt show my friends IP |
| 23:05.54 | lolloo | he is connected right now via SSH |
| 23:06.03 | kerio | netstat |
| 23:06.04 | lolloo | but I cant seem to see his IP |
| 23:06.22 | kerio | hack into his gibson! |
| 23:06.24 | lolloo | ok my friend |
| 23:06.27 | lolloo | hahaha |
| 23:07.16 | lolloo | it show alot of things |
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| 23:13.49 | *** join/#maemo timeless_pidgin (~timeless@cpc8-live21-2-0-cust247.know.cable.virginmedia.com) |
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| 23:16.00 | timeless_pidgin | waves from um... Liverpool? |
| 23:16.10 | lcuk | hi timeless_pidgin |
| 23:16.40 | nox- | where are you going to timeless_pidgin? |
| 23:16.42 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@ppp-124-120-3-250.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 23:17.23 | lcuk | lukes girlfriend lives 1 click away form liverpool |
| 23:18.18 | h4waii | lolloo, so look for whichever port you're running SSHd bound on |
| 23:20.41 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@109.118.246.152) |
| 23:20.49 | lcuk | rotation rotation rotation |
| 23:22.03 | lolloo | ok h4waii, I know the port... how do I list the IPs connected to that port? |
| 23:22.20 | mgedmin | netstat -tn |
| 23:22.26 | mgedmin | (without the -n it will likely show hostnames) |
| 23:25.04 | kerio | lcuk: <.< v.v >.> ^.^ |
| 23:25.11 | lolloo | yes thank you! |
| 23:25.14 | lcuk | g:D konami code? |
| 23:25.16 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 23:25.27 | kerio | no, it's a rotation |
| 23:25.41 | lcuk | indeed |
| 23:26.02 | lcuk | i need to go rotation of bitmaps so i can rotate everylike like the sketches :) |
| 23:26.16 | lcuk | and my god whiskey is strong |
| 23:26.22 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@112.203.66.230) |
| 23:26.22 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 23:26.30 | kerio | don't code while drunk! |
| 23:26.38 | lcuk | even if its new code? |
| 23:26.39 | kerio | that's how windows ME started |
| 23:26.43 | lcuk | :) |
| 23:27.00 | lcuk | i have been blockin on a certain function for a while |
| 23:27.41 | lcuk | attacks it |
| 23:27.53 | ShadowJK | got kicked offline again for 1.5h, only reboot worked :/ |
| 23:28.07 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:28.10 | lcuk | has been rebooting his brain |
| 23:29.02 | lcuk | well that wasnt so bad i managed to loginto scratchbox |
| 23:31.44 | timeless_pidgin | Hi lcuk |
| 23:32.53 | lcuk | \o timeless_pidgin |
| 23:33.01 | lcuk | how was ireland |
| 23:33.42 | ShadowJK | suspects if he orders new sim card from operator, they'll silently drop multisim and data service... :/ |
| 23:36.04 | SpeedEvil | holds up a tube of conductive epoxy. |
| 23:36.42 | SpeedEvil | wonders if you can get conductive hotmelt. |
| 23:36.46 | timeless_pidgin | Ireland was good |
| 23:36.51 | *** join/#maemo incar (~incar@122.110.194.192) |
| 23:36.57 | timeless_pidgin | I'll try to put up photos at some point |
| 23:37.19 | lcuk | cool timeless_pidgin |
| 23:37.26 | lcuk | how long are you in liverpool for? |
| 23:37.55 | timeless_pidgin | Through Sunday or thereabouts |
| 23:39.20 | lcuk | where is next on the agenda? |
| 23:39.29 | lcuk | btw, someone mentioned mxr was giving strange warnings |
| 23:39.39 | lcuk | in the head of each result page |
| 23:39.59 | lcuk | did not prevent the contents, but showed a big "Warning:" label |
| 23:40.07 | lcuk | did not show on the meego mxr |
| 23:40.20 | lcuk | think it was DocScrutinizer |
| 23:41.16 | lcuk | did i mention how strong this whiskey was? |
| 23:43.35 | b-man` | lol |
| 23:44.04 | lcuk | hey b-man` |
| 23:44.17 | ieatlint | mmm, whiskey |
| 23:44.18 | b-man` | hello lcuk :) |
| 23:44.37 | lcuk | hows the traffic light |
| 23:44.40 | b-man` | just got back from a cross-country meet and is exhausted |
| 23:44.46 | b-man` | LOL |
| 23:45.05 | lcuk | whu cant i have an irc to chat system like #fmcg has \@/ i could type with my eyes closed |
| 23:45.29 | b-man` | _everyone_ is making jokes about my traffic light xD |
| 23:45.36 | lcuk | :D |
| 23:45.40 | lcuk | they are cool |
| 23:45.49 | lcuk | you got yourself something awesome |
| 23:45.58 | b-man` | yeah :) |
| 23:47.07 | b-man` | brb - dinner |
| 23:47.27 | lcuk | c++ is strange |
| 23:47.40 | *** join/#maemo yacc (~andreas@chello062178129237.5.13.vie.surfer.at) |
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| 23:48.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: mxr is really broken |
| 23:48.24 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, unsynced? |
| 23:49.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | it doesn't just show warnings, it also shows "fatal" on search pages, and consequently also has not a single refernce href on any function or var |
| 23:50.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | basically the x in mxr lost its meaning |
| 23:50.28 | lcuk | shakes head that this drink is far too much alcohol for one human to cope with |
| 23:50.50 | lcuk | ok well I am sure timeless_pidgin will try and solve it as soon as possible :) |
| 23:51.04 | lcuk | but he is afc for a while |
| 23:51.34 | lcuk | i am heading into code |
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