IRC log for #maemo on 20100925

00:01.24sivangbye a;;
00:01.26sivangall
00:07.23pupniklcuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocE3MjF77Wk  5-DOF untethered/wireless robot steering with electromagnetic fields - in-eye robot surgery -
00:10.12wmaronehey, can anyone with thread-scrubbing capabilities show ZShakespeare the door?
00:11.44lcukooooh pupnik
00:11.58lcukwmarone, hmm where?
00:12.08lcukand theres a report this post if its on talk.maemo.org
00:12.08wmaroneoh, sjgadsby is on it
00:12.36wmaroneZShakespeare decided to go out in a blazed of immaturity and post ... crap all over
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00:45.50johnxcan't work up the motivation to take talk.maemo.org remotely seriously anymore
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01:08.34vnepohello any new updates for n900?
01:09.28johnxvnepo, do you follow the planet.maemo.org RSS feed?
01:11.47vneponope let me follow that
01:11.59johnxgood way to keep up to date ;)
01:12.18vnepolol thanks!!
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01:15.48vnepook i added the feed
01:33.53SpeedEvilI have apmefo installed.
01:34.06SpeedEvilThis - sort-of is useful for making categories.
01:34.32SpeedEvilhowever - is rthere any alternative - other than catorise - which has issues apparantly with battery saving.
01:34.56SpeedEvilI'm specifically wondering how I can sort apps that are not in folders with apmefo
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02:10.02DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ??
02:11.14DocScrutinizerI'm quite ok with ApMeFo. And the battery hog issue is common to catorise and ApMeFo, cause it's a hildon desktop bug
02:12.04DocScrutinizerthat shows only on windows that are supposed to scroll but actually too 'short' to scroll any direction.
02:13.42DocScrutinizerthe balistic scrolling - or what ever it's called - keeps running cyrcles bouncing up and down the window 0.0000points
02:15.35DocScrutinizersorting kinda interferes with ApMeFo, but when I tested it once, I only had to start the ApMeFo config gui and 'save', to fix the mess. Maybe in subfolders it's different, one way or the other
02:15.51DocScrutinizersubmenus even
02:17.22lcuklol DocScrutinizer
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02:17.41lcuk(kinetic infinite bounce)
02:18.01DocScrutinizerlol on what?
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02:18.26SpeedEvilAh - not hit that bug
02:18.42lcukDocScrutinizer, many dynamic systems can get into that situation
02:18.47lcukhas one now
02:19.09SpeedEvilyeah - I can 'fix' it - with either folders or sorting, but I want both.
02:19.14SpeedEvilCurrently messing with vi.
02:20.32DocScrutinizerconsidering how sorting works, I'd guess it can coexist with submenus
02:21.30DocScrutinizerit's just the sorting process ruins the subfolder .desktops (my take on it), but ApMeFo doesn't ruin sorting
02:22.34DocScrutinizertbh it SHOULD get integrated into HSM
02:22.38DocScrutinizerHDM*
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02:22.59DocScrutinizeror the applauncher - whoever is doing the sorting
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02:23.36SpeedEvilI can gret sorting and folders  - but the folders are 'included' and I can't work out how to get them to the top
02:24.45DocScrutinizererm, sorting the folders might be tricky. Look into an arbitrary .desktop, iirc there's a line like "sequence=13"
02:25.42DocScrutinizerApMeFo, on creating those folder .desktop new, probably will not keep those position info
02:25.59DocScrutinizerbut for sure you can edit with vi or...
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02:28.38DocScrutinizerthere's so much in maemo that's actually implemented but the frontend to config and put to purpose is missing... It's a shame
02:28.43SpeedEvilyes.
02:30.11DocScrutinizerprofiles, subfolders, *#... to name just a few
02:30.59DocScrutinizeranyway, off for relaxing
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05:00.24TermanaN900yello
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06:28.15ZogGKhertan_Home, didn't know you are french =)
06:32.15RST38hWindows Live - gone
06:32.22RST38hWinAmp Detector - gone
06:32.29RST38h"Free" Quickbooks - gone
06:32.44ZogGRST38h, we don't talk russian man
06:33.07RST38hwonders if he should get rid of the MS Office
06:33.23RST38hZogG, do you talk russian woman then?
06:34.04bef0rdnew notebook?
06:34.16RST38hyea
06:34.32ZogGRST38h install haiku on it
06:34.35ZogGor plan9
06:35.06RST38hhas got an extra "drive" labelled "Drive Q: Microsoft Office Click-to-Run 2010"
06:35.18bef0rdyea Microsoft things
06:35.23RST38hAs fully expected, clicking it returns "Access denied"
06:36.06bef0rdnever understood what's that for
06:36.27RST38hDoesn't matter, it will be gone in a moment...
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06:38.20bef0rdRST38h, btw, specs?  :P
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06:42.48RST38hbef0rd: Toshiba R700 S1331
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06:47.28bef0rdgreat battery life, and seems to be pretty light
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06:53.34Pillumhey
06:54.19Pillumis there a way to dualboot stock kernel and power?
06:54.53jacekowskinope
06:55.03jacekowskiwhy would you do such thing anyways
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06:55.57Pillumpsjailbreak ;)
06:56.38jacekowskiyou can do that on power kernel
06:56.47bef0rdI think there are compiled .ko's for stock and power
06:56.51jacekowskior you can kexec
06:57.01jacekowskiwell, you can build your own modules
06:57.03Pillumyeah, but the newest psfreedom is stock kernel only
06:57.08jacekowskior try to forceload them
06:57.17jacekowskitry insmod module.ko -f
06:57.28jacekowskiit may load
06:57.34jacekowskior panic
06:57.39jacekowskione of two
06:57.46Pillumhehe
06:57.48jacekowskiwel, it may not load at all
06:57.52jacekowskiso one of 3
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08:58.13crashanddiewhat do you do when even shazam doesn't recognise a song?
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09:00.32crashanddiehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0_uEQp2Vg8
09:05.28lcukcrashanddie, so vinyl has come full circle it seems
09:05.42lcukdid you see the slashdot thing last night
09:05.49crashanddiesaw it this morning
09:06.15kerioso... now you can get the poor quality of the vinyl *and* the poor quality of digital audio?
09:06.16kerionice
09:07.09lcukheh kerio
09:07.13lcukhttp://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/10/09/24/2322232/CD-Sales-Continue-To-Plummet-Vinyl-Records-Soar
09:07.16crashanddiekerio: nope, it's analog
09:07.16lcukfor those that didnt
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09:07.24keriocrashanddie: neat
09:07.34keriohow are they going to stop the deterioration of the vinyl though?
09:07.36lcukand kerio, turn the laser power up and you get to play the record only once
09:07.54lcukkerio, laser tracking instead of physical pulling
09:08.05keriolcuk: how's that not affecting the vinyl
09:08.06lcukerrr dragging a needle
09:08.25crashanddiekerio: light produces a lot less friction than?
09:08.30kerioa lot less
09:08.45crashanddieI never thought "damn, light is damned heavy today"
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09:09.00kerioask me how many times i can play PCM audio without changing it
09:09.19crashanddiehow many times can you play PCM audio without changing it?
09:09.25kerioinfinite
09:09.32crashanddieand?
09:09.40kerioand that's impossible with vinyl
09:09.41kerio:
09:09.43kerio*:)
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09:09.53crashanddieyou do realise that there are still plenty of people who already have a massive vinyl collection?
09:10.02lcuktake a photo of the record
09:10.03keriodo they *listen* to it?
09:10.09lcukput it back in its sleeve
09:10.18keriolcuk: photons hit the surface
09:10.22kerioit's not the same anymore
09:10.44crashanddiemeh
09:10.55crashanddieI don't give a shit about the supposed "warmth" that vinyls have
09:11.05crashanddieI do care about compression
09:11.10keriothe warmth they have is a distortion of the low frequencies
09:11.18kerio:)
09:11.29kerioso don't buy crappy cds
09:11.38keriohttp://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1798856&cid=33693998 <- lol
09:11.39crashanddieAnd even though some vinyls have a bit of compression, it's usually less than what you get on all CDs produced today
09:11.55kerioyeah :(
09:11.59crashanddiekerio: find the metallica guitar hero comment in there
09:12.09kerioi know about that
09:12.15crashanddiethe guitar hero version of a song is of better quality than the CD version :(
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09:12.32kerio(well, you *can't* compress the sound so much on a vinyl - that's why it's not done)
09:12.40crashanddiesure you can
09:12.59kerionah, you'll get pops
09:13.05keriothe needle will do tiny jumps
09:13.17crashanddiewell, that's just poor compression :P
09:13.23crashanddieand depends of the needle, too
09:13.55crashanddieif I understand it correctly, loudness sounds better on crappy soundsystems
09:14.17keriocrashanddie: s/better/less crappy/
09:14.23crashanddieso that billy bob and co can listen to a CD of justin bieber and think "Woah, this sounds really good"
09:14.53keriowell, i'd say the problem is in billy bob's head, not in the cd
09:15.11kerioreplaygain would fix that, but meh
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09:15.27crashanddieno, the problem is that one-size-fits-all is what the majors think is best for us
09:15.42keriothe majors can suck it
09:15.54kerioand vinyl is not best for anyone
09:16.01kerioexcept old people who have nostalgia of the plastic disc
09:16.13keriotrue audiophiles buy SACD
09:16.25crashanddieaudiophiles are ignorant twats
09:16.42crashanddienot much better than linux wankers who get a tiny hardon when they thing their system is 1% better
09:16.52crashanddie"OMFG, GOLDEN CABLES, weeeeeeeeee"
09:16.56keriolol
09:17.40crashanddiefor the same reason that you can buy dvd, bluray, and even still vhs a few years ago, because different people had different demands, why is it not possible to get a normally engineered soundtrack, and then the loudness wars casualty one on sale everywhere
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09:17.58crashanddiethe people who give a fuck will give a fuck, and go the extra length to buy the not crappy one
09:18.27crashanddiethe same reason I hate the fact that I can't buy a DVD in France and watch it in English without having french subtitles distracting me
09:18.44keriohuh? you surely can?
09:18.59crashanddiedepends, it's getting better these days, and haven't seen it on bluray yet
09:19.08keriodisable subtitles, from the Video menu
09:19.19crashanddiebut most movies are hard-coded to only support english channel with the french subtitles
09:19.43kerioon the other hand, vlc is hard-coded to do what i tell him to do
09:19.43crashanddie(I'm talking about playback on PS3 or standalone DVD player)
09:20.29crashanddieYes, sure, I could slam it in the macbookpro, hook it up to the telly, and play it from there
09:20.40crashanddiebut after a week of work? I can't be bothered, really
09:20.43keriomake a HTPC
09:20.47crashanddieno
09:21.03crashanddiewhy would I have to invest more instead of the companies getting it right?
09:21.12keriobecause the companies don't get it right?
09:21.14crashanddieAnd they've listened -- bluray doesn't do that anymore.
09:21.16kerioduh
09:21.41kerioalso i think pretty much every dvd player has a "subtitles" button that lets you choose
09:21.57crashanddieyes, and when you hit it, it says "Operation unavailable"
09:22.06keriothen you have the wrong dvd player
09:22.23lcukno, this is France
09:22.42crashanddiekerio: ever had the Disney adverts that take up 20 minutes before the movie begins?
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09:22.49crashanddieAnd how they sometime don't allow you to fast forward?
09:22.50keriocrashanddie: i don't buy dvds
09:22.55crashanddiewell then fuck off
09:22.55keriofor precisely that reason
09:23.06crashanddiedon't argue in a discussion you know nothing about, ffs.
09:23.20kerioif i borrow one from a friend, i just watch it on my computer
09:23.46lcukcrashanddie, you have seen Taxi 1,2,3,4 i gather?
09:23.52crashanddienope
09:23.54crashanddieJust 1, maybe 2
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09:23.57crashanddienot the rest
09:24.13crashanddieI'm not big on french movies
09:24.13lcukfirst French movies I had tried and liked
09:24.35lcukany others in similar genre - amusing and fast
09:25.09crashanddieDunno if they're translated in English, but there's one seriously stupid and very funny: Asterix and Obelix: Mission Cleopatra
09:25.25lcukwell taxi was subtitled only
09:25.51lcukwill watch out for asterix
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09:27.12crashanddielcuk: Dobermann, The Nest, District 13, and the sequel apparently is good (never seen it): District 13 Ultimatum
09:30.37lcukcool, think I have seen District 13
09:30.54lcukor at least some parts of it - its got a heavy freerunning section afaik
09:31.00crashanddiealso 36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8HSXswW5MA ) and slightly darker: A Prophet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiZSIQwNk3k)
09:31.12crashanddieit's only about freerunning, lol
09:31.38lcukheh
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09:44.38lcukcrashanddie, i just watched asterix trailer
09:44.43lcuki was half expecting animated version
09:44.54lcukso pleasantly surprised to see its a real movie :D
09:46.26crashanddiehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kfkBaMg4h8
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10:32.07flexxxvhy, what is the easiest way to get the source code of the modules I need for cd drive support in maemo?
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10:33.02keriohuh... kernel.org?
10:33.06kerioalso, why
10:33.15keriothe n900 has no cd drive
10:33.33pexipics if u have modded!
10:34.24Nomausb host and usb cd drive?:)
10:34.40satmdI thought n900 did not have host mode
10:34.45pexiimagine amiga cd32 emulator and pad with n900
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10:38.31sivangmorning all
10:39.46sivangcontinues with the backup/ reflash saga
10:39.54sivangany good tips and warnings before?
10:40.00flexxxvI already connected a cd drive successfully :D
10:40.14flexxxvjust cant use it because of the missing modules
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10:41.36flexxxvso am I right that if I would compile the modles I could use it right? no need to recompile the patched kernel?
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10:42.28flexxxvI never compiled modules taht are normally included in the vanilla kernel
10:42.41crashanddieMohammadAG51: ping
10:42.42sivangflexxxv: if you can use an inserted module, then just build it with your kernel headers and try and insmod or modprobe it and it should work, yes
10:43.00sivangflexxxv: yeah, but in most of the times, this will just create the device node- you will still have to mount it manually
10:43.13flexxxvthat would be no problem :D
10:43.16sivangflexxxv: so mount /dev/cdXX /media/cdrom or somesuch
10:43.24crashanddiesatmd: host mode is coming along just fine
10:43.46crashanddiesatmd: I'd say another couple weeks and we'll be able to hook up an external hard drive no problem
10:43.47flexxxvi know; but how can I can I only build the cd modules?
10:44.04flexxxvThink you can already use an ext HD :D
10:44.24crashanddiewell, there are bugs that will appear pretty soon
10:44.37satmdyay :D
10:44.40crashanddiewhich is why I'd say another 2 weeks will be necessary to have something working reliably
10:44.50sivangwonders if the work being done through mameo-devel will be reused in MeeGO.
10:45.03crashanddiewhat work?
10:45.16flexxxvthe ext HD
10:45.22flexxxv(think so)
10:45.35flexxxvI mean the modules I need are included in the vanilla kernel. but i dont need the hole vanilla kernel just the modules so how to do this?
10:45.49crashanddiedid not compute.
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10:47.30flexxxvsry, HD isn't working for me :(
10:47.32crashanddieMohammadAG51: I'll be studying for the theoretical exam too in the next few days
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10:49.56MohammadAG51crashanddie, lost your license?
10:50.08flexxxvOk hd is working just was using wrong cable :-O
10:50.20flexxxvbut no no ntfs modules :(
10:50.30kerioi'm not sure someone ported fuse
10:50.41crashanddieMohammadAG51: nope, full motorcycle licence
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10:50.48DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: moinmoin. Factoid: write speed of MyDocs over ass rage: 11MB/s (average for 13.2GB of data written)
10:50.54MohammadAG51:D
10:50.54MohammadAG51logs, NAO
10:50.54MohammadAG51:P
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10:51.23MohammadAG51flexxxv, download them, the stock kernels should load fine, if not ping me in 10-20 mins
10:52.04flexxxvMohammedAG51: need to leave now, will be back in 30 min
10:52.21MohammadAG51hmm, k
10:52.25MohammadAG51adds a note
10:52.42kerioDocScrutinizer: write speed of mydocs with rsync? :)
10:53.27DocScrutinizerkerio: which part of "MyDocs over ass rage" was unclear?
10:53.48keriono, i mean, from the n900 itself
10:54.11DocScrutinizerthrows a M* and STO* in kerio's general direction
10:54.19kerioi keep not getting it
10:54.38MohammadAG51mass storage
10:54.42kerioyeah
10:54.46kerioi got that much
10:56.10tobis87Hi, does someone know how ham accesses the nokia repositories https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ and https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0 ? I'm looking for the correct adress to Contents-armel.gz.
10:56.28MohammadAG51hints at /etc/apt/
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10:59.16RST38hA change in Symbian's naming scheme was proposed. This would see a move to major and minor release numbers; this would mean Symbian^4.0, Symbian^4.2, Symbian^4.3, Symbian^5.0 (and so on), rather than Symbian^4, Symbian^5, Symbian^6 (and so on).
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10:59.38RST38hcan't quite restrain himself from laughing satanically
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10:59.49DocScrutinizerthinks there's some authentication involved, as for instance the cherry dissect says "download via wget to your N900, it doesn't work to directly dl to desktop PC" (OWTTE)
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11:01.54tobis87yes, but this is strange: dists is ./ and there is no section in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list, https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/dists/./Contents-armel.gz does not work.
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11:02.26RST38hThe council discussed the deprecation of AVKON (in Symbian^4) onwards. It will become a platform API from Symbian^4 onwards. CONE and UIKON will remain because of dependencies.
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11:02.49RST38hCONE and UIKON will remain, hehe
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11:04.48DocScrutinizerafter learning about sybian, I'm not quite sure if I want to know what's a CONE or a UIKON :-P
11:05.02RST38hright.
11:10.13asj_DocScrutinizer: sybian != symbian ;) btw...
11:11.10pexi:D
11:11.12sivangDocScrutinizer: hehe, you would be amazed what video's wikipedia has in store for this definition
11:11.20sivangthought wikipedia was PG13
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11:11.58kerioyou'd be surprised
11:13.56sivangwhat are those CONE and UIKON?
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11:14.19asj_I'm more people find a sybian more enjoyable than ever thought symbian was enjoyable...and symbian has I'm sure sold 1x10^6 more devices
11:14.46pexi:)
11:15.35sivanghehe
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11:15.49asj_sivang: google says UIKON is some of the graphics foundation, and I hope to neve rlearn about CONE
11:18.26asj_RST38h: that's lame, they should change the naming to something more like Symbian^(4/1), Symbian^(4/2), etc ;)
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11:20.13sivangasj_: hehe
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11:31.39sivanghmm
11:31.56sivangplugging my N900 to Ubuntu does not make the automounting go poof like before
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11:33.09sivangstill the fs's seem to have been properly unmounted from the device itself
11:33.10sivangwhat gives?
11:33.19sivangbeats his ubuntu laptop
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11:37.02sivanghmm, so I managed to mount something of size 29G which is a vfat,
11:37.11sivangwhere is MyDocs and everything else?
11:37.45sivangguesses there no way but to rsycn stuff to the mSD and copy it from there to external device
11:38.26alteregoI noticed that data+web isn't in the MeeGo 1.1 released ..
11:38.27sivangStskeeps: ^ (trying to follow your rsync advice for /, /home, /home/user/MyDocs )
11:38.36alteregoSo much for people thinking that will save the N900 ..
11:39.01sivangalterego: data+web ?
11:39.41pexiwrt is in 1.2 if u mean that
11:39.48alteregocellmo data + network connectivity
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11:49.12TermanaDesirealterego - are you sure? I'm pretty sure phone functionality got accepted yesterday
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11:50.13RST38hcooooool
11:50.23RST38hnow, BME, a few more touches, and...
11:51.28TermanaDesireRST38h - bme is available in closed images already
11:52.07DocScrutinizerblaaaaaarrrghh
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11:53.34DocScrutinizeryou're aware bme even *blocks* implementation of proper open interfaces, like e.g. a bq24150 driver allowing to access the chip via sysfs nodes?
11:54.36StskeepsRST38h: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=10187&postcount=183
11:55.22DocScrutinizerand ShadowJK is using his N900 since 7 weeks now, without ever starting bme. He's using an augmented version of my charging script
11:56.52alteregoTermanaDesire: Phone functionality isn't network data connectivity though is it.
11:57.00alteregoYou can make calls but not connect to hte internet.
11:57.01RST38hStskeeps: coooooooooooooooool =)
11:57.23RST38hwell I hope data connectivity will come too,in a while
11:57.44alteregoWhether this is a minor problem with there not being any MeeGo support for operators, so you have to configure ofono manually, or whether there's some underlying problem ..
11:58.27StskeepsRST38h: it's there but just not in UI
11:58.57Psihey, can anyone recommend a ffmpeg audio and video codec and the mimetype to go with it for transcoding upnp to n900 in mediatomb?  I have it working quite well with just mpeg2video, just wondering if there is anything better
12:00.43flexxxv|afkMohammadAG51: I downloaded the vanilla kernel linux-2.6.28 . what do I have to do to compile modules like: cdrom.ko isofs.ko etc ?
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12:01.52RST38hStskeeps: And I hope someone if writing a SIM PIN entry dialog? :)
12:02.08alteregoflexxxv: scratchbox
12:02.10StskeepsRST38h: hopefully.. not sure if it makes it into 1.1 though
12:02.32flexxxvalterego: Is installed :D
12:02.49alteregoflexxxv: well, you need to compile the kernel and modules you need.
12:03.05flexxxvhow to do this? :D
12:03.06alteregoHave you ever compiled a kernel before? :)
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12:03.15flexxxvno :D
12:03.24alteregoOh, well, I'd suggest learning to do that then :P
12:03.25flexxxvjust some kernel modules....
12:03.51MohammadAG_flexxxv, funny, I'm compiling them atm
12:04.26alterego:)
12:04.35flexxxvMohammadAG_: I have no experience with that could you tell me what you did?
12:04.38alteregoMohammadAG_: had much success with testers then?
12:04.43alteregoI must be doing something wrong :/
12:04.57alteregoI'll probably have a proper look tomorrow.
12:04.59MohammadAG_flexxxv, I'll upload them when I'm done
12:05.04MohammadAG_alterego, hmm?
12:05.09MohammadAG_did it fail for you?
12:05.30alteregoYeah, the other day. I've not tested it with my powered externel HDD yet
12:05.33alteregoAnd I got an infinite reboot.
12:05.57flexxxvMohammadAG_: thx (but I need to figure it out in any way how to do such stuiff :D )
12:06.24alteregoMohammadAG_: I'd appreciate dvb-t drivers ^.^
12:06.31alteregoButr I know I'll have to do that myself :D
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12:06.47flexxxvalterego: we had dvb-h for n8x0
12:06.57alteregodvb-t
12:07.04flexxxvalterego: think dvb t will never wrk
12:07.10RST38hwonders how alterego is going to receive dvb on his phone
12:07.19alteregoWith my DVB-T usb dongle
12:07.21RST38hgiven the lack of harware
12:07.21MohammadAG_dvb adapter?
12:07.35RST38humgh, ugly
12:07.44alteregoSo's your face :P
12:07.56flexxxvalterego: don't think that the n900 can decode the data stream fast enough
12:08.16alteregoflexxxv: sure, maybe not, I just want a portable archiver
12:08.27alteregoOR a digital radio receiver ..
12:08.30flexxxvalterego: hmm intresting :D
12:08.52alteregoBesides, I can record, then transcode
12:08.56alteregoThen watch :)
12:09.02flexxxvvery handy
12:09.15flexxxvbtw I have two dvb-t sticks laying around :D :D :D (and a big antenna)
12:09.16alteregoWould be in a car yes
12:09.26alteregobbiab
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12:09.57mc_teohey there
12:10.00RST38hhttp://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-490
12:10.39mc_teojust wondering, how can i add my own pyqt script to the main, regular application menu
12:10.45pexiare there general 'nice-to-have' application collection site for n900? like iboog g4 era there were some hacks and suggestions for touchpad and "spotlight"
12:10.56flexxxvMohammadAG_: do you know a good page on internet to learn how to compile such modules?
12:11.05flexxxv(I mean from the vanilla kernel)
12:11.09mc_teogoogle?
12:11.50flexxxvhmm yeah that was what I did. :D but cant find the right keyworks :(
12:11.57DocScrutinizerjust a general notice on hostmode: the currently published "pre-alpha" is actually a special kernel version made for research purposes *only*. It's not supposed to be used for production, nor will it ever work correctly. It doesn't need some minor fixes to implement hostmode properly, but will get discarded completely and replaced by a entirely different concept
12:12.05mc_teohmmm H8H8O3
12:12.12pexithe point is to find consencus of good apps/hacks so that u don't have to try everything yourself and do some power consumption measurements and user experience evaluation :)
12:12.25mc_teorather, yum H8H8O3
12:12.31MohammadAG_indeed, it contains too many debugging crap
12:12.40MohammadAG_which, if you have syslog installed, eats your rootfs
12:12.57DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: basically it contains ONLY debugging crap
12:13.01MohammadAG_echo "" > /var/log/syslog to clear
12:13.19MohammadAG_I can only agree with you
12:13.24mc_teojust wondering, how can i add my own pyqt script to the main, regular application menu
12:13.38flexxxvDocScrutinizer: replaced completely? but we will alway need a patched kernel right?
12:13.49MohammadAG_yes
12:13.52DocScrutinizeryes
12:14.16flexxxvso new concept = new mode for te usb driver for host mode or what?
12:14.26mc_teojust wondering, how can i add my own pyqt script to the main, regular application menu
12:14.26MohammadAG_proper patches
12:14.33MohammadAG_mc_teo, you already asked once
12:14.48mc_teotwice
12:15.13mc_teoi was ignored in both instances, hence asking a third
12:15.13flexxxvmc_teo: http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format
12:15.31mc_teoyes, i have made my own one of those
12:15.41mc_teoand copied it to the correct di
12:15.44mc_teodir*
12:15.50MohammadAGoh, a shortcut
12:15.59mc_teoand killed the desktop to restart it
12:16.01MohammadAGI thought you're working on something ala catorize
12:16.11MohammadAGit scans the dir, you don't need to kill it
12:16.11mc_teobut it does not appear
12:16.18MohammadAGpastebin the file
12:16.23flexxxvmc_teo which directory?
12:16.38mc_teo/usr/share/applications/hildon
12:16.43MohammadAGpastebin the file
12:18.16DocScrutinizerflexxxv: new concept = throwing out all the handles in sysfs that are used now to *force* kernel manually thru a fixed sequence of USB OTG states, and replace that by a smarter properly implemented in-kernel mechanism that just does "The Right Thing", when doing a "echo host >./mode"
12:18.23mc_teohttp://paste.pocoo.org/show/267061
12:18.49mc_teomostly based on nmaps and xterms
12:19.11flexxxvDocScrutinizer: sounds good :D
12:19.39flexxxvDocScrutinizer: what kind of logs are you intrested in most?
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12:19.42mc_teobtw, did no one get my joke about vanilla?
12:19.51mc_teoits chemical formula is H8H8O3
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12:20.39MohammadAGtake out the X- lines
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12:20.48MohammadAGflexxxv, syslogs, and patches if you're a dev
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12:20.57mc_teosorry
12:21.02MohammadAGtake out the X- lines mc_teo
12:21.12MohammadAGand remove the " from Exec=
12:21.20mc_teoim on the border of the ap, so i got disconnected
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12:22.03DocScrutinizerflexxxv: we can use a single fully blown log of successful hostmode session, for every distinct class of usecase (like storage attached, hub attached, low-speed device attached [won't ever work now])
12:22.28MohammadAGfound better success with a hub
12:22.37MohammadAGwhat didn't work before works now
12:22.59MohammadAGso I'm using a hub on my N900, connected to a flash, a mouse 2.4GHz receiver, and a keyboard
12:23.03MohammadAGkb maps are shit though
12:23.14DocScrutinizerflexxxv: alas fullsize log means we'd need more than just the syslog copy
12:23.15flexxxvyeah thats right a hub makes live so much easier :D how did you change the keyboard mapping???
12:23.29MohammadAGI didn't, they're the rx51 crap
12:23.42flexxxvso not too usefull
12:24.00DocScrutinizer...as in syslog not all interesting things show up. Due to the kernel not being optimized for logging either
12:24.11flexxxvDocScrutinizer: tell me exactly what you want and i'll try to do
12:24.19flexxxvargh need to leave again :(
12:24.31DocScrutinizerflexxxv: I had hoped MohammadAG would do this
12:24.38flexxxvok
12:25.25mc_teohttp://paste.pocoo.org/show/267068
12:25.31mc_teostill doesnt show
12:25.41flexxxv|afkjust thought that there are different hardware revisions out and so you need some more logs
12:26.16DocScrutinizerflxfrom a devel POV this release wasn't intended to help in any way. MohammadAG did it "to attract developers"
12:26.30DocScrutinizerflexxxv|afk: ^^
12:27.37DocScrutinizerflexxxv|afk: there's definitely very little use in "testers" for now, for hostmode development
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12:29.01DocScrutinizerMohammadAG can provide us (the kernel devels) with all the logs we need. And there's nothing yet to actually 'test' on a larger user basis
12:29.41MohammadAGUmm, didn't I already?
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12:31.07DocScrutinizernevertheless it's nice to learn there's not just MohammadAG's N900 in this world than actually *can* do hostmode, so it's a general proof of concept, yielding evidence hostmode *can* be done without any hardware mods, without external power, without special adapters
12:31.22DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sure, mostly
12:31.41DocScrutinizerof course further logs for e.g the hub case are welcome
12:32.26keriocan the hardware give power through usb?
12:32.39DocScrutinizeralso please refer to my suggestion I posted to you yesterday in #mhd, about augmenting the echo cals in hostmode.py
12:32.50MohammadAGyes yes, will do mate
12:32.52DocScrutinizerkerio: 200mA
12:32.54MohammadAGjust having problems with some shit
12:32.58kerioDocScrutinizer: that sucks... :(
12:33.05MohammadAGit's enough for a flash, a mouse and a kb
12:33.05DocScrutinizerkerio: you suck
12:33.07MohammadAGapparently
12:33.17MohammadAGis tempted to plug a CD drive
12:33.39DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: won't work
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12:33.48MohammadAGand a CD drive powered by another 5V plug (Y cable)
12:34.09DocScrutinizerdrives quite regularly draw even more than the allowed 500mA max, for spinning up
12:35.00DocScrutinizerthis *would* work, but will ruin hostmode setup, due to VBUS applied prematurely
12:35.20DocScrutinizerof *this debug botch kernel*
12:35.36DocScrutinizeron a decent kernel it of course would work flawlessly
12:35.45MohammadAGindeed
12:35.56MohammadAGI just don't get why I need to start bme, connect the plug then stop bme
12:36.16MohammadAGwhen starting bme, it pumps out some power out of the USB port
12:36.21MohammadAGenough to light up my flash drive
12:36.30MohammadAGthen less than 1s later, it disables that
12:37.44mc_teostill no look
12:37.49mc_teoluck*
12:37.54DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I bet that's related to 2 things: a) bme accessing charger detection, thus activating ULPI interface, and b) VBUS voltage is buffered in some capacitors, so killall vboost.sh makes VBUS decay at random rate, and eventually an IRQ for either VBUS_VALID or SESSION_VALID kicks in
12:38.06mc_teomaybe i need more that just the .desktop file?
12:38.20DocScrutinizerboth IRQ are generated by 1707 via ULPI, and happen at certain voltage levels of VBUS
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12:40.07alteregodamn 3G base station has died, so I only have 2G :(
12:40.19DocScrutinizerthe whole hostmode establishing in current debug version, as done by hostmode.py, is highly at random and depending on quite a number of physical and timing properties of the particular device
12:41.09alteregoGood innit
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12:41.57mc_teoi this i saw this phononomen in hp:mor
12:42.16mc_teoits called the bystander phononomen
12:42.51mc_teowhere everyone passes on the responsibility of doing something to another of the people
12:43.03mc_teomaking it less of their responsibilty
12:44.02mc_teoand there if you use direct names, or target a single person, they become aware of it being their responsibility
12:44.18mc_teoso MohammadAG, i choose you!
12:44.36mc_teohttp://paste.pocoo.org/show/267068
12:44.42mc_teostill doesnt work
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12:45.16MohammadAGdpkg-buildpackage: source package is kernel <-- where is this from?
12:45.42MohammadAGmy only guess mc_teo would be retarded line breaks, as in windows's notepad
12:45.52DocScrutinizermc_teo: (to flasify your phononomen :-D ) copy some .desktop that does almost similar thing as you like, then edit step by step to adapt
12:46.24mc_teowell i used the notepad in maemo
12:46.33MohammadAGwhat notepad in maemo
12:46.40mc_teoso unless thats as retarded as the one in maemo
12:46.51MohammadAGthe Notes app saves in .html
12:46.54MohammadAGwith html formatting
12:47.02DocScrutinizermuhahahaha
12:47.05mc_teopyqtk editor is really slow to open, so i used that
12:47.10MohammadAGnano ftw
12:47.21DocScrutinizeror mc for the clueless
12:47.32DocScrutinizer(like me :-P)
12:47.35mc_teoim normally a emacs person myself
12:47.59mc_teobut i have been using vim lately, since its on this server i tend to ssh into alot
12:48.12GuySoft_nokiahi all, does anyone know how to get opera browser to support unicode fonts?
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12:49.05DocScrutinizermc_teo: anyway, .desktop files are really picky about syntax, trailing spaces, sequence of lines, etc
12:50.23DocScrutinizerso my suggestion: copy an existing working .desktop to another filename, and edit step by step, beginning with label of icon as shown on hildon app launcher menu
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12:51.56DocScrutinizer(label of icon) i.e.: NAME=<your-new-name>
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12:55.17DocScrutinizercp /usr/share/applications/hildon/osso-xterm.desktop /usr/share/applications/hildon/my-own-app.desktop; sed -i "s/Name=X Terminal/Name=That's xterm too/"  /usr/share/applications/hildon/my-own-app.desktop
12:55.49mc_teoi am familiar with that yes
12:56.16DocScrutinizeriirc you should see two identical xterm icons then, one named X Terminal, and one named That's xterm too
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12:56.41DocScrutinizerthen go on and edit /usr/share/applications/hildon/my-own-app.desktop to meet your needs
12:56.56DocScrutinizerstep by step
12:57.08jenkowskidf
12:57.34DocScrutinizereach time you save your edits, hildon desktop will notice that and rescann the whole set of icons to display. No need to reboot
12:58.45DocScrutinizerif your new icon vanishes, you did something 'bad' :-D
12:59.22DocScrutinizerrevert to former version, and do better :-)
12:59.42DocScrutinizerHTH
13:00.11DocScrutinizer(it did for me, as I ran into similar problems)
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13:05.10DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe even the tick ' in that's will break it, so I can't recommend to use exactly that name :-P
13:06.51DocScrutinizerbut luckily it also breaks the sed cmdline I suggested above, so you won't have introduced it accidentally by c&p this cmdline :-D
13:09.15jpinx-eeepcok - how do I activate gprs in the n900. I put the simcard in and it shows up in the list of internet connections, and I select it - then what? It doesn't give a connection with just that...
13:09.46pexicreate new connection
13:09.59jpinx-eeepcand yes - the sim card is specifically for gprs and has credit ;)
13:11.03DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: settings -> internet connections -> * -> *-> edit GPRS connectio settings, set APN details to the ones needed for your provider
13:11.21jpinx-eeepcAh-ha
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13:12.28pexibtw i got 351e bill (2 weeks 3g usage) from the operater because they didn't change the 3g contract in time :)
13:12.38jpinx-eeepcHm - nothing to edit in there part from th4 name
13:12.58DocScrutinizererr wut?
13:12.58pexipretty expensive to use w/o proper contract
13:13.25pexiofc they did fix that later
13:13.46jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: "Connection setup: Name and type " but only Name has an editable box
13:13.59jpinx-eeepcwait
13:14.05jpinx-eeepctherre's more.......
13:15.26flexxxv|afkDocScrutinizer: thx for clarifing this. I think I'm sure I don't have enough knowledge for helping with developing. So I just will continue to play with what we have right now :D
13:16.07DocScrutinizerfor the unlucky ones - in detail, while confirming on own device: settings -> internet connections -> [connections]  -><select the name of your gprs conn, the one with round icon> -> [edit] -> [next] -> > edit name of Access Point, username, password
13:16.39DocScrutinizerdamn, that's been really difficult to figure
13:16.42DocScrutinizer:-S
13:18.19flexxxv|afkany changelog for the files here: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/hostmode/Aug%2028%202010/ ?
13:18.40DocScrutinizerlolz
13:18.43jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: there is no username/password for gprs needed - just the simcard, and the access "point" is the mobile signal
13:18.54MohammadAGflexxxv|afk, ignore them
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13:19.02MohammadAGtakes down files
13:19.08SpeedEviljpinx-eeepc: It may need the APN and password.
13:19.13SpeedEvilIt varies by provider
13:19.20SpeedEvilSome require it, others do not
13:19.34sivangre all
13:19.35flexxxv|afkMohammadAG: too late ;)
13:19.50jpinx-eeepcthere is nowhere to enter an APN . even if I had one....
13:19.56MohammadAGflexxxv|afk, they may or may not work, failed build really
13:20.10MohammadAGnothing secret or anything, we have a separate place for that
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13:20.33DocScrutinizerflexxxv|afk: iirc those were with some patch from mainstream I pushed into hostmode debug kernel (via mohammad :-D)
13:20.39sivangone last question before I embark on the reflashing guys, Stskeeps noted something about recreating the ubifs for reflashing/recovering the device, should I be worried about it ?
13:20.48SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/fapn/
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13:20.55SpeedEviljpinx-eeepc:
13:21.18MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, we didn't test them though, at least with the new method
13:21.23MohammadAGthey may or may not work better
13:21.28DocScrutinizeryep
13:21.39jpinx-eeepcSpeedEvil: ?
13:21.40DocScrutinizernobody but you *can* test them
13:21.47MohammadAGwhy's that :)
13:21.52sivangalso, unrelated, debian packaging is being taken care of by the sdk? no more need to know the debian policy and how to create packages from scratch?
13:22.07sivangapologizes for so many early development question which he only now raises
13:22.07MohammadAGdoes packages from scratch
13:22.12sivangMohammadAG: good :)
13:22.20DocScrutinizeras nobody else had success with the 'old' kernel, in whole hostmode taskforce team
13:22.24flexxxv|afki wont test them, i also need to use the phone as a phone :D
13:22.29sivangMohammadAG: what are you using for creating the skelaton ?
13:22.57SpeedEviljpinx-eeepc: see above package to edit APNs
13:23.57sivangalso, I asked this before, what are the quality guidelines h-a-m enforces on installed packages? will it reject packages not conforming to them on the fly?
13:24.19sivang(the article about the "not enough space for upgrade" says installing apps not through it overrides its rules)
13:24.32DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I'd expect that patch from upstream fix some suspend issues in musb-kernel, which usually cause ULPI timeouts
13:24.36jpinx-eeepcSpeedEvil: no package name showed here
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13:26.08DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so if that's the only change from july to august, it'd be great if you'd test this kernel and confirm it works for you same way the july one does
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13:27.40NirtalHello! I'm trying to flash my n900 but when I'm booting in update/usb mode windows won't find the right drivers
13:28.36togglesdoes the twitter conversation plugin work?
13:30.35sivangis this channel used for development discussions interchangably?
13:30.46sivangwonders if this is like a "policy manual" - http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node16.html#SECTION001610000000000000000
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13:32.18sivanghey pupnik_
13:35.57h4waiitoggles - no.
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13:36.20h4waiitoggles - OAuth isn't working. I've built the newest plugin from source and contacted the developer.
13:37.36MohammadAGnoob in hostmode thread, grr!
13:37.41MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm trying to but
13:37.56MohammadAGdpkg-gencontrol -pkernel-hostmode-source -ldebian/changelog -isp -Tdebian/kernel-hostmode-source.substvars -Pdebian/kernel-hostmode-source
13:37.56MohammadAGdpkg-gencontrol: error: source package has two conflicting values - kernel-hostmode and kernel
13:38.04MohammadAGwhere the f is kernel defined
13:38.58MohammadAGmeh
13:39.05MohammadAGgedit wasn't saving shit
13:39.07MohammadAGnano ftw
13:39.09DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: that's packaging details where I'm a total noob. Sorry :-)
13:39.28MohammadAGI edited it before, but gedit didn't save it
13:39.33MohammadAGeven after clicking save
13:40.02NirtalCan anyone help me flash my n900?
13:40.10h4waiiNo.
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13:40.21MohammadAGkicks h4waii in the nuts :P
13:40.27DocScrutinizeryou probably have to do that your own
13:40.27h4waiiI have no nuts! You lose!
13:40.35MohammadAGfail ^
13:40.35h4waiiHAHAHA!
13:40.36DocScrutinizer~flashing
13:40.36infoboti heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
13:41.41DocScrutinizerNirtal: if it does't work like described there, you're free to come back and elaborate on your unique problems
13:43.07MohammadAGN900 died, yay
13:43.17MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, is there a way to check battery life w/o bme?
13:43.28DocScrutinizerNirtal: make sure your battery is really really charged prior to starting flashing
13:43.29h4waiilshal?
13:43.35MohammadAGI said w/o bme
13:43.39h4waiiOr is that polled from BME?
13:43.44MohammadAGit's from bme
13:43.48h4waiiHEY EASY BROBOCOP.
13:43.54DocScrutinizerh4waii: yep, no bme, no hal
13:43.57NirtalI'm going to try that boot without signed drivers thingy
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13:44.03MohammadAGbq?
13:44.03NirtalI'l be back
13:44.24DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: bq always works, as long as no matan's bq27 drivers
13:44.49MohammadAGhuh?
13:44.51DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: SpeedEvil's modified simplified script even works with powerkernl
13:45.07MohammadAGkernel-power has the matan's patches
13:45.27MohammadAG-the
13:45.30DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I2Cget will fail if kernel has driver for the chip, occupying the I2C resource
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13:46.14DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil's scripts checks if there's a kernel module, and if found it'l use the matan sysfs nodes instead of I2Cget
13:46.56DocScrutinizerbme is less cute, failing boldly on power kernel for accessing bq27200
13:46.58MohammadAGis his script on the interwebz somewhere?
13:47.15DocScrutinizeron wiki, sw-power-consumption or similar
13:48.06DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management
13:48.18DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management#Powerscript
13:49.02DocScrutinizerobviously this script doesn't provide NAC
13:49.49MohammadAGwonders if tealbird saw her success
13:49.54DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I suggest to use ShadowJK's script, plus modprobe -r bq27x00 if needed
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13:50.23DocScrutinizerI guess no, she's obviously no IRC person, and an occasional tmo lurker
13:50.45MohammadAGcan't find his battery
13:50.48DocScrutinizerI'm about to push out a notice on h-e-n ML
13:50.57MohammadAGnice, was going to suggest that :)
13:51.03MohammadAGbrb, have to find battery
13:51.18DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: It's in your belly, just like Mr.Data's
13:51.34h4waiiI had a dude drop my N900 battery in his soup, at Nokia World
13:51.52h4waiiHe then tried to give it back to me, as if nothing happened. I kept his.
13:51.54DocScrutinizerouch
13:51.55RST38hAnyone willing to help me with a Qt linkage problem?
13:52.14sivangRST38h: if I knew how, why not? :)
13:52.15DocScrutinizer...
13:52.33sivangh4waii: heh
13:52.48RST38h<PROTECTED>
13:53.01RST38hI am getting this even although I have got /usr/lib/libQtGui*
13:53.03NirtalDocScrutinizer windows can't install the drivers
13:53.24sivangRST38h: the fact you have it does not mean the linkder can find it :)
13:53.29DocScrutinizerNirtal: sorry, haven't touched windows for tha last 10 years
13:53.40sivangRST38h: so, see if you can ask it where it looks
13:53.50RST38hIt looks in -L/usr/lib
13:53.54MohammadAGwindows is meh
13:54.01RST38hwhere it finds libQtCore by the way
13:54.10MohammadAGapt-get install libqt4-dev?
13:54.18RST38hSo, any non-obvious advice?
13:54.31MohammadAGyes, use a proper toolchain
13:54.40MohammadAGscratchbox > MADDE/Nokia SDK
13:54.48DocScrutinizerNirtal: usual suggestion is: either work it out as you decided to use windows, or just use a linux live CD and get support from everybody
13:55.13RST38hMohammadAG: I am using scratchbox
13:55.13h4waiiNirtal - Do you have PC/Ovi Suite installed?
13:55.18sivangRST38h: what happens if you ask pkgconfig about it?
13:55.20Nirtalh4waii yes
13:55.20MohammadAG/opt?
13:55.26Nirtalbut not running
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13:55.52togglesh4waii: thanks mate
13:56.03RST38hSo, why would a scratchbox fail to find QtGui but find QtCore?
13:56.07DocScrutinizerNirtal: that's bad nevertheless
13:56.25NirtalDocScrutinizer what's bad?
13:56.37h4waiiNirtal - and you're using NSU or flasher?
13:56.40DocScrutinizerbut I'll :-x as I got nfc of win
13:56.53RST38hAh I know now
13:56.53sivangRST38h: ask pkconfig about ti and see where it reports it, also qmake -l might help
13:57.03RST38hsivang: I asked for non-obvious advice
13:57.10sivangRST38h: ah, okay, sorry
13:57.24sivangscratchbox requires VT btw?
13:57.46sivangah,surely not, I managed to run it all over.
13:58.11MohammadAGweird
13:58.53MohammadAGinstalled a +2MB kernel package
13:59.05GAN900I still can't believe Nokia managed to make the arrow keys unusable in the browser.
13:59.06MohammadAGwill brb
13:59.07RST38hOk, so scratchbox ld fails to load libraries located in /opt/lib, even if -L/opt/lib is explicitely given
13:59.16Nirtalh4waii I'm trying to use flasher
13:59.22RST38hDamn thing just does not follow symlinks.
13:59.26DocScrutinizerGAN900: lart timeless
13:59.43RST38hGAN900: you do not need arrow keys in a touch screen device
13:59.49RST38hlaughs sadistically
14:00.00h4waiiNirtal - Update with NSU to get the drivers.
14:00.05*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08B273.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:00.06DocScrutinizer~attack RST38h
14:00.06infobotACTION grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing RST38h
14:01.46satmdoh, infobot is female?
14:01.52DocScrutinizeryes, she is
14:01.54satmdwonders why most irc bots are female
14:01.55RST38hit is LIKE a female.
14:02.01Nirtalh4waii will that reset the n900?
14:02.20DocScrutinizerthough:
14:02.21*** join/#maemo Jucato (~Jucato@kde/developer/jucato)
14:02.23h4waiiNirtal - You...are trying to flash your device, no?
14:02.26DocScrutinizer~rape RST38h
14:02.26infobotACTION takes RST38h behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams
14:02.30Nirtalyes
14:02.40h4waiiThat's not how you spell Wal-Mart
14:02.46DocScrutinizerdoesn't sound really ladylike, hih? XD
14:02.50h4waiiNirtal - then it will do that, obviously.
14:03.00NirtalWhat I understand, that's the only way to do a full factory reset
14:03.26sivanghehe
14:03.38h4waiiDrop it down a storm-drain if you want to remove all your data from it.
14:04.00sivangnotes this is probably the more interesting channel in the meego/maemo world.
14:04.08sivangsure caters for more laughs
14:04.15MNZRST38h, sometimes you need to make libbla.so links pointing to libbla.so.n.m manually
14:04.39h4waiiI'm only here for comedic relief, sivang.
14:04.42GAN900Laughing is all you have left when the alternative is crying. *g*
14:04.54DocScrutinizerX-P
14:04.56sivangGAN900: I also hear that alot :)
14:05.08sivanganyway, back to threashing my device
14:07.05*** join/#maemo |R (~bob@dsl-173-248-220-76.acanac.net)
14:10.28DocScrutinizerNirtal: NSU seems to occupy the USB, thus preventing flasher from working. Make sure you've read and understood the whole page http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware , then try to find advice how to stop NSU from occupying the USB if you plan to use flasher with windows
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14:12.04DocScrutinizeraiui this getting rid of NSU drivers my include steps like uninstalling NSU, rebooting windows, dunno what else
14:12.11DocScrutinizermay*
14:14.20h4waiiUh
14:14.24RST38hgot the first picture shown in Qt version of EMULib
14:14.28h4waiiIt doesn't "occupy" USB.
14:14.46sivangcopies backup to laptop
14:14.48h4waiiIt's a driver issue.
14:15.09RST38hMNZ: No, it is simpler and weirder than that. Scratchbox canno follow symlinks. Ok, it cannot follow 2 symlinks in a row, at least
14:15.13*** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48791.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
14:15.43h4waiiOne driver supports the flashing mode, one doesn't.
14:16.08DocScrutinizerRST38h: for sure you're aware scratchbox is a chroot with bindmounts
14:17.30jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: SpeedEvil fwiw the local gprs provider here has some method to "register" the sim card and send instructions according to phone type. N900 is not on their list :(
14:17.55DocScrutinizersame here
14:18.12MohammadAGwhat module is needed for CDs?
14:18.24DocScrutinizeriso9660?
14:18.32MohammadAG[ 1400.908721] scsi 0:0:0:0: CD-ROM            TSSTcorp CDDVDW SE-T084M  TS01 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
14:18.40SpeedEviliso9660, cdrom, sr-mod
14:18.41SpeedEvilIIRC
14:18.47SpeedEvilIt's been a while though
14:18.50*** join/#maemo Flyser (~quassel@p578D1CA5.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:19.34MohammadAGargh
14:19.38MohammadAGfucking gedit
14:21.45alteregoWhat's wrong with gedit?
14:22.21jpinx-eeepctry bluefish ;)
14:22.36h4waiiFuck that, use vim
14:22.37MohammadAGalterego, it didn't save my .config
14:22.46alteregoAwww :)
14:23.26*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)
14:23.27MohammadAGand my debian/changelog
14:23.36MohammadAGand my other edits
14:23.52*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)
14:23.54MohammadAGthose who disobey me...
14:23.55MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ killall -9 gedit
14:24.12h4waiiYou shoulda sprung for an i7, sir.
14:24.30MohammadAGwhat's wrong with i5s? :)
14:24.41h4waiiThey're not i7s :D
14:26.18daleglassthere are longcats on my N900 (found I've got a liblongcat1 package installed)
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14:27.52RST38hOhshit, how I hate custom build systems and preprocessing tools...
14:27.53*** join/#maemo vzq (~vzq@a91-152-246-203.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
14:28.27h4waiiI hate bananas
14:29.56GAN900How can you hate bananas?
14:30.13alteregosweet, so svn handles symlinks fine
14:30.47h4waiiGAN900 - their consistency.
14:30.50tobis87daleglass: Do you know what went wrong with ramzswap yesterday?
14:31.26*** join/#maemo raster (~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster)
14:34.05daleglasstobis87: I think I figured it out, I think I set up ramzswap with a backing file on /home, which wasn't mounted yet at that point. I'm not sure what happened at that point though, maybe the script halts on error, or the module freaked out
14:37.30tobis87daleglass: Yes, this would be a good reason. But I would consider to use the swap partition directly as the backing store, else you will have an performance overhead by the filesystem. Which size did you test?
14:39.07daleglasstobis87: I'll have to try that, yeah. I also found that in the non-backed mode, you choose the swap device's size, not the amount of memory to dedicate. So my current 64MB one compresses to about 50% and saves about 32MB RAM
14:39.55daleglasstobis87: also on the ramzswap page the author seems to be saying that the backed mode doesn't perform very well, and that currently having it along with a normal swap partition works better. Wonder why.
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14:41.25MohammadAGumm
14:41.35MohammadAGwhat are the default kernel parameters for the N900?
14:41.50MohammadAGI'm getting kernel panic on a kernel I made, apparently it doesn't pass root=whatevertheN900user
14:41.52MohammadAGuses
14:42.34Stskeepscheck config_cmdline
14:43.24h4waiikernel-power doesn't have grsec, does it?
14:43.29daleglasstobis87: "@KHcha.n.el: Currently, the only reason to use a backing swap (instead of separate physical and ramzswap devices) is to allow incompressible pages to be sent to backing swap, if and when they are encountered. Without backing swap, ramzswap device is forced to stored such pages in uncompressed form." (from http://code.google.com/p/compcache/wiki/CompilingAndUsingNew)
14:43.35DocScrutinizersmiles on all the cute people, sometimes it's a real pleasure
14:44.01MohammadAGooh fuck
14:44.07MohammadAGI think my N900's dead
14:44.10MohammadAGpermanently
14:44.21DocScrutinizer:-O
14:44.28Adeonhave a proper burial
14:44.35MohammadAGKernel Panic: Unable to mount rootfs on unknown block(0,0)
14:44.37MohammadAGtries stock kernel
14:44.53DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: shock the monkey?
14:45.22MohammadAGk, nothing to worry about
14:45.24MohammadAGit's alive
14:45.30DocScrutinizergrrr
14:45.32*** join/#maemo Robotnixon (~robitnixo@41.130.30.237)
14:45.37kerioheh
14:46.05daleglasstobis87: also, I'm trying to adapt the swap notify patch to the n900 kernel
14:46.11MohammadAGwonders what these kernel parameters are about snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6
14:47.19*** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p4FC2394B.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:47.20tobis87Ok, an encrypted swap has even an higher overhead, but i encrypt the swap on every machine i have and mounting tmp as tmpfs. I also don't understand everything, if I use the 768mb swap partion as backingstore for ramzswap with a size of 32mb, but it does not addup to 832mb (768 + 2 * 32). The swap the system knows of is still 768mb, so if the swap drive would be full, not all of it would be used since 64mb of the drive is stored as 32mb in
14:47.29*** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@81-178-197-234.dsl.pipex.com)
14:48.06keriothere's no way to compress everything, you know
14:48.47tobis87daleglass: Yes I know of this, that is why I use backing store to only compress compressable pages, this will not be very easy since nokia has already patched the kernel to handle swapping different.
14:50.38daleglasstobis87: well the problem I see is: it sounds like the idea is: if it doesn't compress, send to backing swap. But, if it does compress it's kept in RAM. So if you have say, 32MB for ramzswap, it compresses 50%, all pages are compressable, then all you gain is 32MB extra and your 768MB of backing sit idle
14:50.41*** join/#maemo Appiah (~appiah@ip69.hethane.riksnet.nu)
14:50.47tobis87daleglass: this is the patch nokia applied to the swapfile handling http://pastebin.com/81nDpjnD
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14:53.25daleglasstobis87: I don't think there should be a problem having both at once. The ramzswap patch is very simple and just adds a notification when something that was swapped out isn't needed anymore.
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14:54.48MohammadAGah fixed
14:54.50MohammadAGdamn nano
14:54.55MohammadAGfirst gedit, now nano
14:55.01MohammadAGit separated my line into two
14:55.14tobis87daleglass: yes, but just assume you would fill the whole swap. you have 32mb in ram, which would be 64mb compressed and the 768mb from the disk. But the system only knows of a 768mb swap (/proc/swaps).
14:55.43*** join/#maemo jenkowski (~jenkowski@164.Red-213-98-41.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
14:56.28daleglasstobis87: I don't think you can use an active swap partition for backing? Or that works?
14:57.16tobis87daleglass: would be nice to have this, maybe it could be included in the hostmode kernel, it shouldn't harm without using ramzswap. what do you mean with active swap partition?
14:57.44MohammadAGWTF
14:57.50*** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:58.16MohammadAGHuoston we have a problem: powering off
15:01.27h4waiiMohammadAG - looks like dsp limits
15:01.44*** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@g226030254.adsl.alicedsl.de)
15:01.50MohammadAGwtf are dsp limits
15:02.05h4waiiOkay.
15:02.12h4waiiThey look like limitations put on sound output.
15:02.25MohammadAGoh
15:02.27MohammadAGthe kernel params
15:02.31h4waiiDAC output limit.
15:02.50*** join/#maemo mc_teo (~user@92.251.156.171.threembb.ie)
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15:04.52DocScrutinizerh4waii: pointer? or qiote?
15:05.04DocScrutinizerquote them, even
15:05.13h4waiiSay what?
15:05.48MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, * MohammadAG wonders what these kernel parameters are about snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6
15:05.59DocScrutinizerplease provide some context, so others can have a look on what you think are imitations put on sound output
15:06.09h4waii^^
15:06.10DocScrutinizeraah, k
15:07.17DocScrutinizerhp probably is highpass
15:07.45DocScrutinizerMNZ: ^^^ seen?
15:08.02*** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
15:08.12*** join/#maemo ZenimNL (~ask@dhcp-077-249-031-152.chello.nl)
15:08.23MohammadAGanyways
15:08.25MohammadAGfull params
15:08.26MohammadAGCONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6"
15:08.28MNZconfirm, seen in driver. They set some regs, hold on
15:08.41*** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host67-222-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
15:08.48h4waiiwtf? no_chk_data_crc
15:09.06MohammadAGlol fail
15:09.10alteregoh4waii: probably for performance.
15:09.21h4waiiI suppose that can be passed off to ext3
15:09.31MohammadAGlet's disable md5sums in dpkg, for performance :P
15:09.39alteregoHeh
15:10.10*** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr)
15:11.16*** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr)
15:12.31Gizmokid2005Anyone here who can work on the site or server?
15:12.44h4waii...
15:13.00h4waiiIn reference to what, exactly?
15:13.13Gizmokid2005Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 935040 bytes) in /home/tabtalk/public_html/forums/search.php on line 1160
15:13.33h4waiiOut of bounds memory allocation.
15:13.49h4waiithe hell are you trying to do?
15:13.52Gizmokid2005...search
15:14.24h4waiiGet off my internet.
15:14.25Gizmokid2005the site loads, but it errors when I try to search
15:14.33*** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-12123.pppoe.wtnet.de)
15:14.39h4waiiLink.
15:15.10Gizmokid2005go to talk.maemo.org....enter in something in the main search bar...hit go.
15:15.18Gizmokid2005unless you know of some other hidden search I don't
15:15.42Gizmokid2005aaand now it's working
15:15.47h4waiiWorks fine. Are you trying to enter in a huge ass string?
15:16.20h4waiiYou should be using the Power Search, in any fashion. Regular search is less than useless.
15:16.27MNZhp = headphone not high pass, hp_lim and hp_dac_lim set the bounds on maximum gain that can be set through alsa mixer
15:16.34Gizmokid2005I wouldn't call "N900 missing phone calls" a huge ass string
15:16.41Gizmokid2005Regular search has always been useful to me
15:16.58*** join/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B2886EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
15:17.01h4waiiWell you might be simple.
15:17.32Gizmokid2005I am. If it's too much or I don't find what I want then I power search
15:18.19MohammadAGwhere are cdroms usually found in dev
15:18.25h4waiihdc
15:18.37MNZor sdb, depends
15:19.59Gizmokid2005i'm trying to figure out if there's any way I can make my phone actually work for, you know, a phone. Since I'm on AT&T and only have Edge/2.5, anytime I have just about anything that uses data going in the background phone calls get ignored, and on occasion SMS do too, though they usually are unaffected
15:20.05h4waiiAre you doing any emulation?
15:20.17Gizmokid2005I know it's because all the packets are going over the same connection...but there has to be SOME way to make it actually work as a phone.
15:20.29h4waiihdc, sdb, scd are the 3 places I'd check
15:20.32*** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@5265C40E.cm-8.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
15:20.33MohammadAGNokia-N900:/lib/modules/2.6.28-hostmode1# mount /dev/scd0 /mnt
15:20.33MohammadAGNokia-N900:/lib/modules/2.6.28-hostmode1# cd /mnt
15:20.33MohammadAGNokia-N900:/mnt# ls
15:20.33MohammadAGREADME.diskdefines  install             pool
15:20.33MohammadAGcdromupgrade        isolinux            preseed
15:20.34MohammadAGdists               md5sum.txt          ubuntu
15:20.36MohammadAGdoc                 pics
15:20.38MohammadAG\o/
15:20.48*** part/#maemo laasonen (~laasonen@ape3000.com)
15:21.14h4waiiGizmokid2005, what carrier are you on?
15:21.20DocScrutinizerno reason to highlight me :-P
15:21.33Gizmokid2005h4waii: as I said in my first message... AT&T
15:21.43MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, cdroms working, if you're interested :)
15:21.48DocScrutinizerooh
15:21.52Gizmokid2005works beautifully on my E71x. I know it has to do with my N900 and the edge limitation
15:21.57DocScrutinizerthat's actually a reason :-)
15:22.14Gizmokid2005outbound is perfectly fine, of course, but inbound is useless at best in most cases
15:22.14h4waiiI've *never* missed a call due to data Tx/Rx
15:22.29Gizmokid2005I have, in just the last day alone I've confirmed missed more than 12 calls
15:22.37h4waiiVoice channels are supposed to take priority
15:22.46h4waiiYou have something else going on.
15:22.57Gizmokid2005hence why I'm asking
15:22.58Gizmokid2005like what?
15:23.22jacekowskih4waii: nope
15:23.29jacekowskih4waii: that depends on terminal class
15:23.37h4waiiContinue...
15:23.51jacekowskih4waii: all N series nokia phones for example can do data and voice at the same time
15:24.04DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: that's a problem of your carrier. N900 supports concurrent data & call
15:24.32h4waiiContinue...
15:24.34jacekowskihttp://www.newlc.com/en/GPRS-Class-overview.html
15:25.01jacekowskimost phones are class B
15:25.06jacekowskisome phones are class C
15:25.17jacekowskiand only nokia N series and couple other phones are class A
15:25.36GAN900Gizmokid2005, no AT&T 3G support.
15:25.39Gizmokid2005DocScrutinizer: it's not a carrier problem. I can guarantee it.
15:25.45Gizmokid2005GAN900: thank you. I know that.
15:25.48Gizmokid2005THAT is my point
15:25.50GAN900Gizmokid2005, EDGE is call or data onlu.
15:25.52Gizmokid2005it's an edge limitation
15:25.54h4waiiGizmokid2005 - it is a carrier problem. We guarantee it.
15:25.59GAN900Gizmokid2005, it's a bit of both.
15:26.14Gizmokid2005and I'm asking if there's any way that I can make the N900 actually kill the data or listen periodically for voice instead of blocking it.
15:26.15GAN900Mostly it's on Nokia for not supporting the larger US carrier.
15:26.38h4waiiYour N900 isn't "blocking" it.
15:26.42DocScrutinizerGAN900: (EDGE is call or data onlu) see jacekowski ^^^ class A
15:26.53Gizmokid2005h4waii: yes. It is. How else would you describe what's going on?
15:26.57Gizmokid2005the carrier just says you aren't going to get it?
15:27.27Gizmokid2005the call is being sent. The radio in the N900, drivers or otherwise, is ignoring it because it's busy with data
15:27.36Gizmokid2005since it's not 3G and doesn't have concurrent data/voice.
15:27.37DocScrutinizernope
15:27.41DocScrutinizerincorrect
15:27.42h4waiiGo ahead and argue all you want. It's a carrier problem - and that means network or switch related.
15:27.51tobis87daleglass: ramzswap reports the size of the backing store to the system. ramzswap cannot report the size of the compressed memory + the size of the swap partition to the system, since ramzswap cannot know how much will fit into the compressed memory.
15:27.52h4waiiIf you want to imagine otherwise, be my guest.
15:27.57tobis87but this means that the system can only use the size of the backing store for swap, because even if there would be space left on the swap partition the sytem only knows of a swap with the size of the backing store.
15:27.59Kegetysphone calls work fine for me even when on edge on n900
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15:28.20DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: ^^^ see?
15:28.25Gizmokid2005yes, outgoing works BEAUTIFUL
15:28.27h4waiiAndw when you're proven ridiculously wrong, I want you to feel like an ass.
15:28.32Kegetysin and out
15:28.37daleglasstobis87: aha that makes sense. Will have to give it a try then
15:28.38Gizmokid2005as does incoming when I have absolutely NOTHING going that uses data
15:28.40tobis87ramzswap 32mb + swap partition 768mb -> ramzswap reports 768mb not 832mb (64mb possible compressed + 768mb partition) -> system can only use 768mb (64mb possible compressed + 768mb partition - 64mb unknown to system)
15:28.47Gizmokid2005ie - IM, twitter, browser, etc.
15:28.56Gizmokid2005email is ok, as that's not a consistent connection
15:29.02GAN900It's an EDGE limitation.
15:29.07DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: it's your carrier not signalling the call to you when data transfer is eating all the bandwidth
15:29.21h4waiiAKA CARRIER ISSUE.
15:29.30Kegetysthe data connection turns off when there is a call coming for me, and comes back when the call ends
15:29.40GAN900Or SMS.
15:29.43tobis87daleglass: but this is only how i can think of it, i'm not that great in reading code...
15:29.57Gizmokid2005well, I'm not going to argue. It is what it is. Considering I've already seen it confirmed as a device issue and was looking for a fix. Believe what you want.
15:30.02Gizmokid2005thanks for the information guys.
15:30.03h4waiiHahaha
15:30.04GAN900Nokia is hateful for not supporting AT&T, though.
15:30.20h4waiiWho confirmed it was a "Device issue" to you? You or one of your less-than-skilled friends?
15:30.37Kegetysget a prepaid card from another provider and try it then
15:30.47GAN900No pre-paid data.
15:30.54Kegetysor test with friends sim card
15:30.55h4waiiYou're going to try and refute facts, from some very intelligent people here - about the issue?
15:30.58DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: anyway, you simply have to make your downloads throttle a bit, leaving spare slots for call signalling, and everything will be fine
15:31.34GAN900Another fine example of why Nokia lost the US market.
15:31.42jpinx-eeepcin an xterm on the n900, why would "mount -o loop os.img mountpoint" prodduce and error of "failed, Invalid argument" ?
15:31.46Gizmokid2005DocScrutinizer: that's part of my point I'm trying to make but nobody cares to actually listen. They'd rather stomp on me and ignore anything I"m trying to say/describe and just call me fucking stupid. I do NOT have ANY downloads EVER running on my device. Just normal Data usage from using the browser, etc.
15:32.10Kegetyswell have you tried it with any other provider than what you have now?
15:32.10h4waiiNo, it's because you are ignorant.
15:32.14DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: meh
15:32.29h4waiiKegetys - he's probably also "testing" it on the same tower, using the same carrier switch.
15:32.50DocScrutinizerand your broswer probably gets his pages by ... what exactly? not by download?
15:32.56MohammadAGhow do I write discs?
15:33.00MohammadAGmkisofs, right
15:33.03Gizmokid2005exactly what I"m talking about.
15:33.04DocScrutinizeryup
15:33.06alteregoYes
15:33.06MNZMohammadAG, cdrecord
15:33.17MohammadAGNokia-N900:/mnt# mkisofs
15:33.17MohammadAG-sh: mkisofs: not found
15:33.26MohammadAGgrr
15:33.33Gizmokid2005Kegetys: I don't have any friends who don't have AT&T and still have SIMs. The rest of the people I know are Sprint, so that's not an option
15:33.36h4waiiThat's for making an iso from fs
15:33.48alteregoMohammadAG: it's in by default on my buntu box
15:33.58h4waiier
15:34.02KegetysGizmokid2005: how did yo come into the conclusion that the problem is the device then?
15:34.02Gizmokid2005I know DocScrutinizer, that the browser has to download, obviously. My point is I don't have any full downloads that are running in the background, it's normal browsing traffic
15:34.04h4waiinevremind.
15:34.20lcukwakes again
15:34.21MNZMohammadAG, cdrecord and mkisofs are not in the repos for obvious reasons haha
15:34.25Gizmokid2005Kegetys: because I have other devices that work fine, even when 3G is disabled, or they don't have 3G capability like the N900
15:34.28*** join/#maemo gaveen (~gaveen@unaffiliated/gaveen)
15:34.37MohammadAGalterego, N900 != Ubuntu though :)
15:34.48alteregoWell, install ubuntu then :P
15:34.55alteregoI thought that was your project too! :D
15:34.56Gizmokid2005I wouldn't come in here if I didn't have a reasonably high level of certainty this was a carrier issue. I'd be all over them to fix something.
15:34.57h4waiiGrab the arm packages.
15:35.14Gizmokid2005I love my N900, but I'm irritated that when actually using it how it should be, it kills what the device really is.
15:35.37wmaroneugh
15:35.40wmaroneterrible scrollback
15:35.53MohammadAGalterego, it is/was
15:35.58lcukGizmokid2005, since I just woke up, can I have a short refresher about your problem
15:36.23h4waiilcuk, n900 not receiving sms/calls when a full data rx/tx session is in swing
15:36.44DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: there've been reports of it just working, on EDGE, for inbound calls. Wiki and specs of N900 also suggest it SHALL work. Now please stop bitching
15:36.46Gizmokid2005lcuk: ^^ pretty much. On AT&T with no 3G, only edge. The device doesn't allow the voice packets through and hold the data connection
15:36.51alteregoHeh
15:37.06alteregoGizmokid2005: that's a propblem with 2G
15:37.08Gizmokid2005DocScrutinizer: IT DOES FUCKING WORK. When you are only doing one thing at a time..
15:37.18lcuknever noticed connections failing
15:37.21alteregoGizmokid2005: literally the spec doesn't allow it.
15:37.31GAN900lcuk, you're not on EDGE.
15:37.33lcukGizmokid2005, so when I have xchat running
15:37.34alteregoGizmokid2005: if the phone call is short, you shouldn't get disconnected though
15:37.51lcukGAN900, is edge only in US?
15:37.54DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THAT, WE TOLD YOU ITS A CARRIER ISSUE!!!1!! and stop shoutong!
15:37.55MohammadAGmine goes to the voicemail
15:37.55stondayep, mine does the HO from data conn to phone call just fine on edge.
15:38.01Gizmokid2005I know alterego. I don't have that issue and I know how that works anyways. that's not the problem
15:38.05MohammadAGactually, it went to the voicemail in jordan, when I was on 2.5
15:38.07*** join/#maemo laasonen (~laasonen@ape3000.com)
15:38.27Gizmokid2005anyways, I'll leave you all to your own devices. Nobody seems to /really/ care because it doesn't affect you..That's how this world works, I've accepted it. G'day.
15:38.28lcukGizmokid2005, so every time you get a call data stops coming in?
15:38.36lcukwhat sort of data downloads do you mean?
15:38.38h4waiiGizmokid2005 - get a T-Mobile SIM, drop your device to 2G and see what happens.
15:38.44wmaroneheh
15:38.45lcukstreaming radio?  torrents?  irc?
15:38.57DocScrutinizeralterego: huh? so what's class-A then?
15:39.03stondausually what it might do is, that i'm doing something else which is eating up the resources, the device might drop a call (like updating HAM)
15:39.14h4waiiBarely any carriers support Class-A.
15:39.27stondabut i still get the notification of a missed call
15:39.32DocScrutinizerthat's what we say all the time!
15:39.46DocScrutinizerit's a carrier issue
15:40.12h4waiiLOL
15:40.49alteregoDocScrutinizer: as far as I know, connectivity types below 3G doen't alloow simultaneous data+phone
15:40.56lcukwonders what "full swing" means in the context of mobile data
15:40.58alteregoWhich seems to be what he's having an issue with
15:41.25DocScrutinizerand of course the problem needs not only a non-supporting carrier to show up, but also a powerful device that does DL at full bandwidth
15:41.40h4waiiHe's having an issue with a misconfigured SWITCH, controlled by AT&T - not signaling his calls due to collisions.
15:41.43lcuksigh
15:41.48h4waiiThat's all it is.
15:41.50DocScrutinizeralterego: that's axactly what clas-A is all about
15:42.11Kegetyswel, I just tested it on my N900: I set it to edge, started download of a 100MB file, while it was downloading I called it. The download got paused and the phone rang normally
15:42.29wmaroneKegetys: carrier?
15:42.32keriowhat happened to the download afterwards?
15:42.35DocScrutinizerh4waii: exactly
15:42.52Kegetyssaunalahti
15:43.01h4waiiDocScrutinizer51: I tried to tell him.
15:43.02lcukGizmokid2005, so its not bandwidth thats the problem
15:43.06lcukyou mention twitter
15:43.16DocScrutinizerh4waii: he started shouting
15:43.20DocScrutinizerso meh
15:43.25h4waiiHe came in with a shit attitude.
15:43.41sp3000Kegetys: was it a no network pause or a voluntary pause for responsiveness?
15:43.45h4waiiClaiming he did testing and confirmed it and 'shut up and fix my problem instead of telling me what thactual problem is'
15:43.52Gizmokid2005Haha. Blame the shit attitude on me. I came in asking questions and was told to piss off. I'm not the one with the shit attitude.
15:44.17Kegetyssp3000: the data connection pauses for the duration of the call, just like it is meant to do
15:44.19h4waiiGizmokid2005 - I can have a shit attitude, because I have the answers to your problems.
15:44.27DocScrutinizerGizmokid2005: actually you are
15:44.41Kegetysand it is not working for Gizmokid2005, he blames the device but it works for my device. so either his device is broken or his provider is broken
15:44.55keriohis provider is at&t
15:44.57alteregoUrgh
15:44.58kerioso yeah
15:45.03h4waiikerio, lol
15:45.17*** join/#maemo sivang (~sivan@bzq-84-109-218-117.red.bezeqint.net)
15:45.18alteregoIgnore Doche's been moody for the past week.
15:45.37h4waiiPost-op.
15:45.38*** join/#maemo sivang (~sivan@unaffiliated/sivang)
15:46.01sp3000Kegetys: I'm having trouble parsing that, what works for you? ...pausing?
15:46.12lcukDocScrutinizer, h4waii - stop jumping on it just being the carrier
15:46.17sp3000fwiw I can browse while on a call just fine
15:46.19Kegetyssp3000: calling the phone when its on 2G and data transfer is in progress
15:46.23lcukits entirely feasible he mightv fucked up his phone too
15:46.25sp3000oh 2g
15:46.32h4waiiWhy? We know it's a carrier-related issue. It's the switch.
15:46.42DocScrutinizerlcuk: quite possible
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15:46.50h4waiiIt's ENTIRELY feasible, yes. But HIGHLY unlikely.
15:47.12lcukbecause jumping and saying its a carrier issue cuts him off before you can try to do some specific tests
15:47.16h4waiiHe would have to had botched the daemons so badly, that nothing else worked.
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15:47.31h4waiiHe's not prepared to do any specific tests.
15:47.38h4waiiHe has an AT&T SIM. That is all.
15:47.41petterii am writing a simple python script that is polling some services for every 10 minutes. Any tips on how to suspend the the polling when phone is on stanby?
15:48.04lcukGizmokid2005, you said you missed 12 calls
15:48.07sp3000petteri: there's dbus signals or such
15:48.10lcukhow did you confirm you missed 12 calls
15:48.21lcukand if you know there is a problem, how did you test it
15:48.34petterisp3000: do you have any links/documentation?
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15:49.00DocScrutinizerpetteri: define "standby"
15:49.13petteriDocScrutinizer: when the screen is blank
15:49.49DocScrutinizerk, there's a dbus msg telling it's blanking the screen I guess. check with dbus-monitor --system
15:50.23petteriDocScrutinizer: ok thansk. I will look it up
15:50.24sp3000petteri: not offhand, I don't dabble in that much
15:50.46sp3000but yeah, dbus-monitoring for the available chatter is a good start
15:50.50DocScrutinizeryou probably even could use dbus-scripting pkg to start and stop your process accordingly
15:51.06h4waiidbus-scripts and dbus-scripts-settings &
15:51.08h4waii^
15:51.14*** join/#maemo ircmasterman (~ircmaster@p54A9734E.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:51.32h4waiiDon't fuck up the syntx though. You'll want to commit seppuku.
15:52.04ircmastermanhttp://bit.ly/c6bASW
15:52.16DocScrutinizerlol, see my fork-bomb problem, when I had a random file in /etc/dbus-scripts.d/
15:52.35*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)
15:52.52h4waiiI also had an issue with it :P
15:53.01*** part/#maemo ircmasterman (~ircmaster@p54A9734E.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:53.28DocScrutinizerfscking idiot - don't klick that link. It's spam
15:53.33DocScrutinizerprobably
15:53.57*** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ
15:54.03h4waiiIt's a German site or something.
15:54.07h4waiiRobesonhall.com
15:54.15*** mode/#maemo [+b *!*@p54A9734E.dip.t-dialin.net] by DocScrutinizer
15:54.29h4waiiI think it's for pre-paid top-ups. I can't read this.
15:54.39*** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ
15:56.01jacekowskiGizmokid2005: nokia n900 can do concurrent data and voice
15:57.32lcukis more interested to know how you find out 12 calls get missed
15:57.35DocScrutinizerjacekowski: we told him several times now
15:57.50DocScrutinizerlcuk: voicebox?
15:58.31lcukdo any of the battery/system monitoring programs also log the signal strength/mode?
15:58.41h4waiiNo.
15:58.44lcukthats a shame
15:58.55lcukadd some gps logs
15:59.04lcukand you could map your signal variance around you
15:59.13h4waiiYou can easily do it with dbus camping
15:59.15DocScrutinizerthat's mostly due to the fact cellmo doesn't offer to much info anyway
15:59.25lcukit shows it to a widget
15:59.28lcukso the information is around
15:59.35h4waiiIt's reported every time a signal change happens.
15:59.53DocScrutinizeryep, mere signal strength is the most frequent msg on dbus :-P
16:00.03h4waiiI contemplated writing a small daemon to vibrate when the signal is dangerously low and a voice call is in progress
16:00.14h4waiiso you'd get a little notice before your call dropped.
16:00.27DocScrutinizerh4waii: great idea
16:00.47*** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@5265C40E.cm-8.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
16:01.03*** join/#maemo sivang (~sivan@bzq-84-109-218-117.red.bezeqint.net)
16:01.09h4waiiYeah. I got about half way, then I stopped.
16:01.18*** join/#maemo Bluewind (~bluewind@unaffiliated/bluewind)
16:01.20h4waiiI lost the code too, so I just didn't bother.
16:01.27DocScrutinizerthough you'd first need to check if signal strength reports are of any accuracy during a call
16:01.34lcukbatterygraph shows network
16:01.36Kegetyshaving the vibrator buzz in your ear when you're on a poor signal area doesn't sound that good to me
16:01.37lcuki wonder if thats data
16:01.47lcukhmm
16:02.01h4waiiKegetys, it'd used the TS Pattern, so it's very low and  inobtrusive.
16:02.11*** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-172-78.static.dsl.dodo.com.au)
16:02.23h4waiiYou can't define tones, so any notification would sound the same and be hard to distinguish.
16:03.24h4waiiActually, I'll put it on my list of things to do for the AT&T app challenge.
16:03.44h4waiiI plan on getting a cool million bucks.
16:06.55*** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
16:07.41DocScrutinizerdamn, MCE is a mad thing! Do a echo 30 >/sys/bus/platform/devices/twl4030_vibra/leds\:twl4030\:vibrator/brightness
16:08.02DocScrutinizerscary
16:08.28MohammadAGI'm guessing it vibrates 1 sec then turns off
16:08.28Kegetyswill it cause my device to shake itself to pieces?
16:08.41DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: even much more weird
16:09.10DocScrutinizerKegetys: after several hours possibly :-D
16:09.25MohammadAGit vibrates, squeaks too
16:09.32DocScrutinizerluckily it stops on echo 0
16:09.55jacekowskivibrator brightness?
16:10.08DocScrutinizeryeah, nice - isn't it? :-P
16:10.15jacekowskidoes it try to pass so much current trough it so it starts to glow?
16:10.18felipechmm, where are the -dbg packages?
16:10.29DocScrutinizer*/speed somewhere up the path had same effect
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16:11.03DocScrutinizerjacekowski: sounds like that, yes
16:11.25DocScrutinizerMohammadAG called it squeeking
16:12.12Kegetysif it vibrates fast enough it should be able to create light I guess
16:12.13*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08B273.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:12.46DocScrutinizerKegetys: yeah, synchrotron radiation :-D
16:12.55MohammadAGdoesn't get it
16:12.59MohammadAGwhat's so evil about it?
16:13.20DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: the vib?
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16:14.15MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yeah
16:14.36DocScrutinizerjust acts like playing random patterns, of which only a small part actually is matching the value you echoed to brightness node
16:14.45keriobecause it makes you tingly in places your mommy said to never touch because it's a sin
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16:16.18DocScrutinizeryou'd think echo 30 >brightness makes the device run smoothly and continuously at a 30/255 power level
16:16.50DocScrutinizernot make it hum and squeak at random patterns
16:18.01h4waiiHm. sshd is running but I can't get access
16:18.09DocScrutinizerbtw this also indicates mce is eating up cpu cycles and energy for doing nonsense
16:21.01DocScrutinizerlooks to me like mce never stopped playback of last (random) pattern to vibrator kernel module, and just has set some duration or power or whatever sysnode to 0
16:21.12DocScrutinizerto make vibrator actually stop
16:22.12h4waiipower to 0 would stop it.
16:22.26DocScrutinizerthank you very much for disclosing the friggin mce source, so we could check and fix
16:24.22DocScrutinizerbut meh, then we were able to also fix the braindamaged usage of engine3 in LP5523 exclusively for 200ms kbd LED ramp-up/down. That MUST NOT happen!
16:26.29jacekowski?
16:26.33sivangjust observed how tracker grinds the device to a near halt.
16:26.43DocScrutinizernota bene most if not all indicator patterns show up during screen dim only, where kbd LEDs clearly don't have to fade-in/out. So nothing *really* blocks engine3, even if we'd (ab)use it for this much-too-simple task of doing a 200ms ramp for those LEDs
16:27.31DocScrutinizeranother case of "we don't need that"
16:28.07lcuksivang, what was it indexing?
16:28.26*** part/#maemo AlMehdi (~AlMehdi@c-db31e255.03-135-6c756c90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
16:28.30DocScrutinizerwhere we=Nokia, and the users won't get that feature as well then, as it's impossible to implement later - it conflicts with retarded mce
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16:30.50sivanglcuk: I wish I noted that, it went out of it for the time being- does it have a log somewhere?
16:31.10lcuknot sure actually
16:31.50lcukI only noticed it in the past when I used usb to copy some big movies on and the indexer said it would take until the next ice age to do it
16:31.56lcukthankfully that bug seems to be fixed
16:32.25lcukbut I know sometimes it can be caught - had you been making movies or photos ?
16:32.34DocScrutinizersivang: edit priority setting in tracker's config file. It nicely nices trackerd
16:32.39*** join/#maemo vcgomes (~vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com)
16:33.16sivangDocScrutinizer: now i know why I got thisjerky UI and all other odd quirks at time, I started sitting with a top through SSH and noticed the major culrprit is tracker
16:33.18lcukwheres the bug report telling the engineers that DocScrutinizer - its no use users having to dig and find a setting
16:33.20sivangDocScrutinizer: will do , thanks
16:33.42*** join/#maemo bidossessi (~bidossess@41.105.9.96)
16:33.59sivangStskeeps: is it okay to ignore the chown and symlink erros when rsyncing to the mSD (it is vfat, so is understandable)
16:34.06sivangStskeeps: re: / backup
16:34.13DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'd not consider this a bug
16:34.32Stskeepssivang: no
16:34.35lcukthen why do you consider needing to change it - especially if it has such a helpful effect
16:34.42Stskeepssivang: target fs must be a ext3 or the likes
16:34.43lcukas you suggest
16:34.44DocScrutinizerit's on user's discretion to set tracker to any priority he likes
16:34.50lcuknot really
16:34.56lcukuser shouldnt give a damn about tracker
16:35.01lcukshould never know it exists
16:35.10DocScrutinizershrugs
16:35.12lcukif it was working perfectly
16:35.18h4waiilcuk, thank you for @'ing me on that.
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16:38.16h4waiifuck this. I am writing a post about this idiot.
16:38.56lcuklook in a mirror, he came in asking legit question about his device
16:39.10h4waiiI gave him a legit answer.
16:39.21h4waiiWho cares about how it was delivered?
16:39.32DocScrutinizerlcuk: for your convenience: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
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16:40.05h4waiiI'd ike to seriously discuss this, because many people have condemned the very community that provides support to them.
16:40.09sivangStskeeps: right, remind me why rsyncing / is required ?
16:40.28h4waiiSame goes for the Engadget article when he bitched about Android yet no official safety nets.
16:40.41h4waiiI'd like to have a real serious discussion.
16:41.39Jaffaev'ning
16:41.46Stskeepssivang: full backup
16:41.53sivangStskeeps: I mean, I did not spot thatt the reflashing docs mention it :)
16:42.06lardmanevening all
16:42.17Stskeepssivang: well, that's how i backup personally
16:42.33Stskeepssivang: if you want to go by the book, use internal backup tool and backup your eMMC
16:42.40lcukh4waii, ok you want serious discussion about attitudes - lets use this specific issue.  guy came in with a peripheral problem, DocScrutinizer and yourself jumped on the fact that it was entirely carrier based then shouted.  no wondering how or why the problem occured, not fact finding.  simple dismissal and arrogance towards a user experiencing a real issue
16:42.52Stskeepsit never works out nicely for me as in the past, i flashed several times a day
16:43.03DocScrutinizerlcuk: I have Throttle=10 in my tracker.cfg, and on monitoring system yesterday evening after copying those 13GB of mp3, I watched trackerd(-*) running at niceness 20 and CPU load rarely over 30%
16:43.07sivangStskeeps: and eMMC is /home right?
16:43.35Stskeepshome/user/MyDocs
16:43.39lcukand for the record h4waii this channel does not tolerate swearing
16:43.45h4waiilcuk; You can't leave out specifics.
16:43.46GAN900Jaffa, congrats, by the way.
16:43.54GAN900Jaffa, you guys picking a chair?
16:43.54DocScrutinizerME shouted? I just answered in same volume he bitched at me not giving the right answers to him
16:43.59h4waiilcuk; Duly noted on the offensive language. Sory.
16:44.16lcukDocScrutinizer, ok, repeated every time
16:44.31DocScrutinizer??
16:44.33JaffaGAN900: NAFAIK. I've been in Greece since Thursday with ropey comms.
16:44.41sivangI know this seems I'm asking the same questions again, but it is not easily apparent on the flashing docs where/ which fs's to backup etc apart from using the hildon bakcup program
16:44.46GAN900Jaffa, ah, sounds fun.
16:44.48lardmanJaffa: and currency
16:44.48Jaffa's going to suggest timsamoff ;-)
16:44.54GAN900Jaffa, do any rioting?
16:45.00h4waiilcuk; Guy comes in with a SORE topic that has been discussed before. We provide an answer, direct and concise. He ignores.
16:45.22DocScrutinizer[2010-09-25 17:37:08] <Gizmokid2005> DocScrutinizer: IT DOES FUCKING WORK. When you are only doing one thing at a time..
16:45.27DocScrutinizer[2010-09-25 17:37:53] <DocScrutinizer> Gizmokid2005: I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THAT, WE TOLD YOU ITS A CARRIER ISSUE!!!1!! and stop shoutong!
16:45.30lcukh4waii, hmm - whats the bug report about missing calls due to carrier?
16:45.31JaffaGAN900: Company conference with them picking up the bar tab. Much looting and rioting ensued.
16:45.52lardman:)
16:45.56sivangJaffa: a conference in greece? sounds leisureish
16:45.58lcukwheres the logs from others experiencing the lovely issue
16:46.03Jaffawent to bed at 03:30 on Thursday night (others were 06:30 both nights)
16:46.10lcukhi Jaffa lardman GAN900 btw ;)
16:46.29Jaffasivang: Need to have a couple of hours of presentations so the company can make it tax deductible?
16:46.39Jaffas/\?/./
16:46.49h4waiilcuk; You really want me to grep through the logs for it? It has been discussed, there are no bug reports filed...because it's a *carrier* issue.
16:46.50DocScrutinizerlcuk: on which bugtracker? carrier's bugtracker?
16:46.55lardmanhi lcuk
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16:46.59sivangJaffa: ohh
16:47.18lcukh4waii, yes - you state that its been discussed before - this channel has full complete public logs
16:47.41lcukhttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html
16:47.44lcukstart there
16:47.46h4waiilcuk; although I am on IRC, I do have other things I am doing athe same time.
16:48.08sivangJaffa: which company is this? :-)
16:48.16h4waiilcuk, sifting through log files for one discussion to prove my point is not what I'd like to do at this moment.
16:48.39lcuknor would anyone
16:49.03h4waiilcuk, having said that...I understand where you are coming from.
16:49.07lardmanis currently downloading all property price data for Bath, at random intervals, to perform a meta-analysis and persuade his wife that things are currently overpriced
16:49.09sivangStskeeps: there is not way to mount / in a host system right? I only see the device adding one devnode for the internal storage (is this the eMMC?) and another for the MSD
16:49.10lcuki would just like to know how you manage to know specifically he is not having a problem with his n900
16:49.12sivangStskeeps: mSD
16:49.23Stskeepssivang: no, it's on the internal NAND
16:49.31lcukbecause theres all sorts of things that might fuck up
16:49.38h4waiilcuk, I don't know for an absolute *fact* it's not his N900 - the same way I don't know for an absolute *fact* that te sky is blue.
16:49.42DocScrutinizerlcuk: evaluation of likelihood
16:49.45lardmanlcuk: language... ;)
16:49.45lcukputs 10p in the swearjar
16:49.57sivangStskeeps: is there a doc somehwere about the memory layout and filesystems and the corrosponding mem devs they use?
16:50.00lcuk:$
16:50.05Stskeepssivang: 'mount' :>
16:50.15lcukDocScrutinizer, its not been brought up before
16:50.16DocScrutinizerlcuk: or call it Occam's razor
16:50.17sivangStskeeps: mount is confusing, does not say which is which :)
16:50.22lardmanlcuk: I probably still owe the channel swearjar a few $k
16:50.22sivangmount's again
16:50.27lcuklol
16:50.30h4waiilcuk, but having dealt with the issue before, with the N900 and other devices with the SAME carrier - it's plain logic, and yes, assumption, of an answer.
16:50.53lcukwhere do you deal with this problem?
16:51.02lcukon other sites? at work?
16:51.13*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08B273.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:51.28lcukbecause what I know of the N900 is that users manage to do the strangest things to it
16:51.29sivangokay, so /dev/mmcblk0p2 is the eMMC where /home is, and /dev/mmcblk1p1 is the vfat mSD
16:51.47DocScrutinizerme at work, for OM. And several other places. It's also been discussed here in this chan before
16:51.48h4waiiIRC, forums, real life. No, not at work. I work far far away from the mobile industry.
16:52.18h4waiiI explicitly remember having a discussion in THIS channel about it.
16:52.45h4waiiand dare I say, it was of similar style and "arrogance" because that is what the problem was/is.
16:53.27DocScrutinizerand it's as simple as "if carrier is using all downstream slots for data, he is missing to signal a call to device." that's called collision I guess
16:53.33h4waiiIssue came up, answer was provided, answer not taken at full face value - harping and hooning began and people started crying.
16:53.55*** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz)
16:54.26DocScrutinizerand there's exactly zero you can do on MT side
16:54.34h4waiiI called it a collision because that's the first thing that came to mind. It's more like out-of-resources case.
16:54.45DocScrutinizerexcept throttling downstream
16:54.48h4waiiDoc, precisely.
16:55.06DocScrutinizerall this has been told to OP, but he insisted in a better answer
16:56.05*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)
16:56.16DocScrutinizersee "...DocScrutinizer: IT DOES FUCKING WORK...."
16:56.20lcukso, where is the document specifically outlining this so its not a case of irc wills
16:56.34lcukfor when the next person comes in
16:56.51DocScrutinizerclass A is explicitly mentioned in Nokia
16:56.56DocScrutinizers N900 specs
16:56.58sivangwithout knowing what this is about, i think that a user that swears and does not make a sane use of a community support channel, should not be answeed or just ignored?
16:57.13h4waiiThey should be kicked.
16:57.28pupnik_http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/779/OCS1-8830_575px.jpg  << i wish more cellphones had batteries like this - where they form the back part of the case - allows to make 'double-wide' batteries
16:57.38sivangyes, just like in other communities after being warned- see ubuntu
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16:58.46keriopupnik_: see MUGEN battery
16:59.22sivangis it sensible to format the mSD to ext3 through the device? or better do it mounted from the host system...
16:59.27pupnik_kerio: yes, because the mugen solution sucks i suggest that alternative
16:59.32h4waiilcuk, do you think pointing a user who the same issue, to a wiki page that says exactly what we said will work better?
16:59.39h4waiisivang - works just fine.
17:00.17DocScrutinizerlcuk: and for the theory of fubar rootfs on N900 or whatever: If carrier *can* signal the call to rapuyama, the far end will get a call progress notification instead of a busy or "not available". So virtually no way whatsoever to mess up phone to a point where class A will fail
17:00.19sivangh4waii: on the device? I just did some rm -rf to the wrong created rsync of / and a call suddenly came in, so the call audio was jerky, can I assume from that the fs operations are intacnt?
17:00.24sivangh4waii: =)
17:00.30sivang*intact
17:01.14sivangthinks after he creates the backup he will reformat it to vfat
17:01.26h4waiiWhat was the question? lol
17:01.39h4waiiI was just referring to mkfs.ext3 from device instead of removal.
17:01.40sivangh4waii: right, sorry again for my many question and noobness in this :)
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17:02.10jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: rapuyama signals that to main processor
17:02.25sivangh4waii: so if I mkfs.ext3 while a call comes in, it shouldn't affect the correctness of operation right?
17:02.34jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and what happens when software runing on main processor have failed
17:02.41*** join/#maemo Erod (~Juno@unaffiliated/erod)
17:02.43h4waiisivang - correct.
17:02.49DocScrutinizerjacekowski: it signals inbound call, yes. In that moment the call notification from carrier has succeeded
17:03.07jacekowskiso if i would disable watchdog
17:03.11jacekowskidisable reboot on panic
17:03.14jacekowskiand cause panic
17:03.28jacekowskisomebody could call me
17:03.31jacekowskiand get nothing
17:03.44jacekowskii mean, he would think that it's ringing
17:03.49jacekowskibut phone would do nothing at all
17:03.49DocScrutinizerand rapu fw still will tell carrier "roger, inbound call"
17:03.57h4waiiWe know it's *possible* to forcibly drop daemons to stop call signaling
17:04.07DocScrutinizerjacekowski: exactly
17:04.44DocScrutinizerwhile on failing class A you get a busy or 'not available' on far end, rather than a call progress
17:04.46h4waiiHowever you'd have more issues than just that, if it were the case.
17:04.55sivangh4waii: just to share my experience, when I did a heavy rm -rf and a call came in, the audio was VERY jerky, good to know file operations take presedence over call audio
17:05.15sivangpersonally I'd prefer to lose calls than to lose ata
17:05.16sivangdata
17:05.18lcukmissing so many calls in a day when hearing nothing about issues before and no noise from user about this issue sounds suspicious
17:05.37h4waiisivang - I have no idea if that's the case.
17:06.14DocScrutinizerlcuk: he didn't seem to be interested in monitoring his gprs downstream usage
17:06.17jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: but you have constant communication over phonet
17:06.27jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i would expect rapuyama to detect that main processor died
17:06.35sivangh4waii: k, thanks a lot so far.
17:07.01DocScrutinizerjacekowski: academical, as OP claimed he's using EDGE flawlessly
17:07.03h4waiisivang - however, if you're receiving call after call - and don't have downtime to mkfs an SD card - the N900 probably doesn't cut it as a main phone anyways :P
17:07.04johnxsometimes feels like Nokia customer care for the N900 has been outsourced to maemo{talk,IRC}
17:07.21h4waiiYou guys are getting paid?!
17:07.28jacekowskiyeah
17:07.37johnxh4waii, yeah. paycheck should come aaaany day now
17:07.38jacekowskibread and water
17:07.42h4waiilike, chocolate covered almonds or?
17:07.51GAN900johnx, clearly it has.
17:07.59lardmansurely that's part of the cost analysis when a company moved to open source...
17:08.00sivanghaha
17:08.03DocScrutinizerlcuk: so what he called "...doing a single thing at a time [in browser]" could as well be watching youtube video
17:08.29lcuksure it could, but I do the same and don't miss calls and I am sure I am not on 3g all the time
17:08.55DocScrutinizermaybe you're on a better carrier supporting class A? :-D
17:08.56sivangusually when you only get paid you will not lurk on the irc channel -p
17:09.03sivangyou might do it enough already during workdays
17:09.05TermanaWell, I don't know about you guys, but I receive money from Nokia. 1 cent, rounded down.
17:09.07jacekowskiif i would want to do single thing i would buy an iphone
17:09.12sivangTermana: hehe
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17:09.19sivangROTFLs
17:09.22lardmanI have troubles answering calls if I have HAM running, or if the phone decided to keep changing from portrait to landscape and back while I try to hit the Answer button
17:09.36lardmanI also have troubles typing s rather than d
17:09.50sivanglardman: yes, I have this as well, but I did not upgrade to PR1.2 yet.
17:09.51h4waiithe N900 sucks as a dedicated phone. Straight up.
17:09.59lcuklardman, set it to portrait only
17:10.07lcukturning control in the phone app
17:10.12lardmanlcuk: ah good point
17:10.28h4waiilcuk. it still rotates. It doesn't define portrait as default window for creation.
17:10.32johnxh4waii, though the best 'dedicated' phone I ever used plugged into a wall and wasn't cordless :)
17:10.39sivanglcuk: mind you it does not always obey that :)
17:10.44lardmanlcuk: hmm, already set to that
17:10.46sivanglcuk: I tried quite a while to use it
17:11.01kerioset the Phone app to always landscape then
17:11.03lardmanh4waii: +1
17:11.37DocScrutinizerlcuk: btw carriers can configure each single BTS to either support class A or not
17:11.49h4waiikerio, kludge workaround.
17:11.58kerioalways landscape is leet
17:12.17johnxkerio, side talking?
17:12.27h4waiiHahaha. Side talkin'.
17:12.51keriowell, when i hold the n900 at my ear, it's more horizontal than vertical
17:12.51DocScrutinizerh4waii: when focus is on a text input field, it always rotates to landscape unconditionally
17:12.54johnxshould venture to talk.maemo.org and start a poll: "Bring side talkin' back?"
17:12.57lardmanthinks to himself how lovely Python is for webscraping
17:13.08keriolardman: scrapy?
17:13.15keriobeautifulsoup?
17:13.19lardmanthe latter
17:13.36kerioyeah, beautifulsoup is godly
17:14.01lardmannice and easy to knock up some code
17:14.04johnxlardman, dunno if this is helpful, but I just ran into this yesterday: http://arshaw.com/scrapemark/
17:14.34sivanglardman: using beautifulsoup?
17:14.42lcukDocScrutinizer, please point me to somewhere official i can read this.  really if its such a limitation there would be documentation about it.  and are there workarounds that can be installed to throttle data as you suggest (rather than "watch your downloads")
17:14.44lardmanjohnx: thanks, will have a look
17:14.49lardmansivang: yep
17:14.55h4waiilcuk, would you like me to write a wiki entry for it?
17:15.11DocScrutinizerh4waii: I had a problem with dialer app not fixed to portrait though I set it in menu. deleting the corresponding config file fixed it
17:16.13sivangh4waii: It is actually quite nice as a main phone, if you forgive the turning quirks and ocassional call miss due to the unfortunate placement of answer button and tunring while call is waiting to be answered.
17:16.16DocScrutinizerlcuk: iirc jacekowski pointed to a URL above. It has the details. Class A is mentioned in technical specs as of Nokia official, probably even user manual
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17:16.24*** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1)
17:16.30h4waiiDoc, it's designed to rotate though, is it created in portrait if selected or landscape and automagically rotated?
17:16.39sivangh4waii: this could probably be fixed easily if when reciving a turning event we check to see if a call is in process or waiting to be answered and ignore it.
17:17.09DocScrutinizerh4waii: for me it looks like window is created in portrait
17:17.50sivangh4waii: or responding to it after the call has been answered
17:17.56*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@dhcp-128-194-72-194.resnet.tamu.edu)
17:18.01lcukDocScrutinizer, and what does a device being Class A mean to someone who is losing calls?
17:18.11lcukand how can they stop losing calls
17:18.23*** join/#maemo chadi (~chadi@212.36.208.2)
17:18.23*** join/#maemo chadi (~chadi@unaffiliated/chadi)
17:18.44lcukand why would they suddenly start losing calls for that matter
17:19.02sivangwhat's that class A, a GSM standard ?
17:19.10DocScrutinizerit means it's carriers fault when a call doesn't come thru, and all that can be done is throttle downloads, to keep spare timeslots for carrier to signal call
17:19.11lcukexactly
17:19.22lcuk"throttle downloads"
17:19.27lcukdoes he need a straw counter?
17:19.36lcukshould he count "one elephant, two elephant"
17:19.41h4waiiThat's not a viable "fix" for an issue on the opposite end.
17:19.49h4waiiAT&T has a misconfigured switch.
17:19.59h4waiiThere is nothing he can do to seriously mitigate it.
17:20.07DocScrutinizerlcuk: I haven't invented this issue, and I'm not actually interested in getting flamed about it
17:20.35DocScrutinizersarcasm not appreciated
17:20.37DocScrutinizerbye
17:20.54lcukDocScrutinizer, you read datasheets thousands of pages in length, I am not trying to flame you, I just want something official to read about it
17:21.22h4waiiIt doesn't officially happen, lcuk. That's what there's nothing about it.
17:21.26keriolcuk: it means that they're holding the phone wrong ;)
17:21.48lcukhaha kerio
17:21.55sivangkerio: hehe
17:22.23sivangso if a carrier does not support Class A properly (Class A IPs?) I will lose calls?
17:23.17lcukh4waii, if theres nothing official happening, how do you know with certainty that is his problem
17:23.26h4waiiAbsolutely no.
17:23.38sivanganyway,I'll stop trolling
17:23.39lcukfacts are important and dismissal without them is wrong
17:23.43sivangevening all, be back later
17:23.55h4waiiBecause unofficially, it happens, seldom, but it happens.
17:24.05sivangthanks for the help
17:25.31h4waiithings that happen to a huge, absoltuely ridiculously small minority, don't get brought up.
17:25.57h4waiiEspecially when it requires numerous arguments for it to happen.
17:26.50h4waiiX Y and Z have to be specific and THEN it requires a specific user to trigger the event.
17:26.50*** join/#maemo Sudipta (~sudiptamo@59.180.153.183)
17:26.54lcukwell, I will find out what I can about this on Monday
17:27.10lcukbut for now I am going for food
17:27.23h4waiiI'm willing to *bet* if you got him onto a tower that pipes to a different switch, *poof*. His issue woul go away.
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17:29.12lcukh4waii, i would have liked to call him first whilst he has downlooads in progress then with downloads not in progress to test it, but thats just me.
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17:29.43h4waiiNobody would be able to predict what would happen.
17:29.59lcuki wouldnt want to predict, i would want to confirm
17:30.16h4waiiIt depends on resource allocation anywhere from backbone, to switch, to tower.
17:30.34h4waiiIt wouldn't really confirm anything for you, except that "it happens sometimes".
17:30.41lcukand you knowthis without any sort of documentation etc
17:30.49h4waiiThat's right.
17:31.03h4waiiIt's pure "login" when it comes to that sort of infrastructure.
17:31.11lcuki will speak to folks on monday anyway and try to find some official documentation about it
17:31.18h4waiier, logic^
17:32.03h4waiiI'd like to know the official standing on it also, so I await your findings. Please ping me on them when you get it.
17:33.48lcukh4waii, well whilst I am doing that you could also be finding out what you know as I asked earlier
17:34.03lcukso if you make the page and add all the info on it
17:34.08lcuki will find out what I can
17:35.27lcuksince afterall you guaranteed to him that was the issue ;)
17:35.42*** join/#maemo apexi200sx (~HickinB@cpc2-salf4-0-0-cust701.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
17:36.58h4waiiwell all the info I add will be completely personal experience / opinion.
17:37.04h4waiiWould you really consider that relevant?
17:37.34lcuknot really
17:38.21h4waiiAre you asking people who work at AT&T?
17:39.44lcukI dont know who I am going to ask yet, but I think having some kind of clear documentation about it would be good and has to exist somewhere
17:40.04h4waiiQuery NOM1, NOM2 and DDTM.
17:40.25lcukanyway my food has pinger
17:40.30lcukpinged
17:40.31h4waiiSpecifically with AT&T. You'll get a metric pants-ton of threads about the issue. Unofficially, of course.
17:41.33*** join/#maemo |R (~bob@67.55.49.187)
17:41.57h4waiiOkay ciao.
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17:54.25DocScrutinizerhttp://www.nokia.de/produkte/mobiltelefone/nokia-n900/technische-daten >>GPRS, Klasse A, Multislot-Klasse 32,<<   http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service#GPRS-Endger.C3.A4teklassen  http://www.newlc.com/en/GPRS-Class-overview.html  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service#Hardware  >>pseudo class-A... Some networks are expected to support DTM in 2007.<<   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Transfer_Mode
17:54.26DocScrutinizeractually I seem to remeber Nokia advertising "DTM" in some of his flyers
17:54.43DocScrutinizerlcuk: ^^^
17:54.50h4waiiI'm wiki'ing this up. Somebody better post it for me.
17:55.17*** part/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B2886EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:57.38DocScrutinizer>>DTM is a 3GPP baseline R99 feature.<< doesn't mean all carriers always support it fully
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17:59.37prontowoah all the repos are down
18:00.11SpeedEvilThey're upgrading them for PR1.4.
18:00.15DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
18:00.16SpeedEvil(no, not really.)
18:00.18SpeedEvil(probably)
18:00.21prontoo_o
18:00.24DocScrutinizer</quote>
18:00.39PurtiHi ..I am trying to install Meego SDK with Xephyr on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS which is running under Oracle VM ware. The host PC is Intel.
18:00.53Purtithe VGA adapter inside ubuntu shows as VGA compatible controller: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH VirtualBox Graphics Adapter
18:00.55DocScrutinizerso, IT IS a carrier problem
18:01.02DocScrutinizerperiod, and ciao
18:01.04h4waiiWOAH. NO WAY Doc!
18:01.06Purtiwill i be able to run Xephyr?
18:01.17h4waiiPurti, yes.
18:01.40johnxPurti, oracle virtualbox?
18:02.02h4waiijohnx, Sun.
18:02.47johnxh4waii, there is no such thing as sun
18:02.59h4waiiC'mon.
18:03.25h4waiiThere will always be a spot in my heart for Sun :P
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18:04.37johnxI just wish they'd made their CDDL, GPL compatible
18:05.30DocScrutinizerlcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Transfer_Mode has *all* you ever wnated to know about missing_inbound_calls issue due to missing carrier support
18:06.50*** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm)
18:07.03h4waiiI'm gonna sort it all out, gimme 15 minutes.
18:07.15daleglassHrm. I noticed a kernel message saying that /home has FS problems. Is it possible to umount /home to run fsck?
18:07.32h4waiiIt's possible to fsck before mount.
18:07.55daleglassgood point, any standard way, or I should hack an init script?
18:08.09*** join/#maemo FatalSaint (~fatal@174-23-135-40.slkc.qwest.net)
18:08.16*** join/#maemo RST38bis (~nobody@NAT-81-25-53-73.ultranet.ru)
18:08.20h4waiiHack an init script. kernel-power supports a flag to enable it.
18:08.33DocScrutinizerlcuk: and there's really very little you can do to fix this, when carrier doesn't support DTM. you *could* tear down the connection every 2s for 500ms, or somesuch, but that'S actually not practible. You also could make internet located servers throttle their downstream, but that's really really tricky
18:10.39*** join/#maemo FatalSaint (~fatal@174-23-135-40.slkc.qwest.net)
18:10.50DocScrutinizer(see router QOS and bandwidth management for techniques how to establish that - especially used for SIP enabled routers)
18:11.09daleglassh4waii: awesome, found it, and running on kernel-power already. Thanks
18:12.04*** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk)
18:12.05daleglassnow the question is, why do I have problems on ext3 in the first place? it's supposed to have a journal
18:13.17*** join/#maemo Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez)
18:14.23h4waiiDocScrutinizer lcuk: http://pastebin.com/Yk8NfEty
18:15.43SpeedEvilext3s journal is not a magic pixie.
18:15.51*** join/#maemo Robotnixon (~robitnixo@41.130.30.237)
18:15.52SpeedEvilAlso - ext3 is not on the root device
18:15.59SpeedEvilUnless you've severely fucked your device.
18:16.57kerioSpeedEvil: what does the rootfs use? ubifs?
18:17.04MohammadAG51yes
18:17.10daleglassSpeedEvil: it's not a magic pixie, but the journal is supposed to ensure FS consistency. If that's not holding that should mean a kernel bug or hardware issue
18:17.14kerioubifs is sweet
18:17.20MohammadAG51indeed
18:17.21h4waiilmfao
18:17.21SpeedEvildaleglass: Not quite.
18:17.38MohammadAG51idk why the image has a rootfs.jffs2 extenseion
18:17.39SpeedEvildaleglass: It ensures FS consistency assuming it has a write ordered block device.
18:17.45keriomoved from jffs2 to ubifs on my sheevaplug
18:17.56SpeedEvildaleglass: The emmc does not do write ordering or commit barriers.
18:18.04SpeedEvilNor do SD cards
18:18.33SpeedEvilAnd crashes that corrupt memory can still screw the FS.
18:18.40jacekowskiomap emmc controller do
18:18.57daleglassSpeedEvil: hm, I suppose I'll call that a hardware issue. Stupid design in this time and age, IMO
18:18.58jacekowskiand emmc memory has to do whatever controllers tells it to do
18:19.00SpeedEviljacekowski: The internal emmc controller does not.
18:19.17lcukDocScrutinizer, :) thanks, h4waii that pastebin doesn't make as much sense as what doc posted.  so the advice to Gizmokid2005 would be to contact his carrier (and hopefully being able to point them at a combined document/references about specifics) and see what they come back with? :)
18:19.23SpeedEviljacekowski: The emmc is _not_ a dumb nand flash device. It's got a complex werar leveling thing inside.
18:19.39SpeedEviljacekowski: which unfortunately breaks write barriers.
18:19.47*** join/#maemo aziwoqpd (~jperry@ip68-5-94-193.oc.oc.cox.net)
18:19.50jacekowskiisn't wear leveling supposed to be done by controller in omap
18:19.58h4waiilcuk http://pastie.org/1181325
18:19.59SpeedEvilno
18:20.11SpeedEviljacekowski: You're thinking of the oneNAND
18:20.12h4waiiAmmended to the bottom.
18:20.16DocScrutinizerlcuk: my advice would be something different, but that's me and my mood today
18:20.21lcukand DocScrutinizer - its so much better to have something like that to actually point people to read than just ircing it - i do appreciate you digging
18:20.23javispedroeMMC uses same interface as your average mmc
18:20.26SpeedEviljacekowski: that is dealt with in kernel by ubifs largely
18:20.36SpeedEviljacekowski: emmc/SD is basically the same.
18:20.48SpeedEviljacekowski: It emulates a 'perfect' block device
18:20.59SpeedEvilError free, and of fixed size
18:21.29kerioyeah, right :)
18:21.38h4waiiSo at the end of the day, are you willing to agree it is a carrier issue, lcuk?
18:21.41*** join/#maemo gaveen (~gaveen@unaffiliated/gaveen)
18:21.44lcukh4waii, could you add that to the wiki but include link to the article doc posted too
18:22.13h4waiiI don't actually think I have a community account for wiki edits :P
18:22.33lcukh4waii, now that theres more coverage and real facts presented yes, but I will not take anytihng anyone says on irc at face value
18:22.50daleglassSpeedEvil: since you seem knowledgeable, there's one thing I've been wondering: is swap on the same or a different device than the rest? Meaning, if swap were to wear things out is swap all that will break, or the entire device is hosed?
18:23.11SpeedEvilIndeterminate.
18:23.24MohammadAG51swap's on the eMMc
18:23.25SpeedEvilThe wear leveling algorithms differ per-device
18:23.29MohammadAG51C*
18:23.36MohammadAG51the rest, idk
18:23.42h4waiilcuk - THAT is one of the reasons I talk with arrogance and conviction. Anything less is flimsy and ignored.
18:24.07lcukh4waii, nahh, a short real article with references that can be pointed to is better than arrogance
18:24.15SpeedEvilhttp://www.mail-archive.com/devel@lists.laptop.org/msg24533.html daleglass
18:24.18SpeedEvil(not me)
18:24.24h4waiiShort real articles with reference don't always exist for all topics.
18:24.31lcukthey do now :)
18:24.39javispedro: but possible the real device will hose as it runs out of spare block
18:24.44javispedroer..
18:24.57lcukh4waii, if they dont exist then someone isn't documenting their steps correctly
18:25.18h4waiiwell that's where IRC fits in. It's the banter between documentation.
18:25.53lcukyip, so with all the shouting and assumptions made this afternoon, we have some clear information boiled out of it incase the next person comes and asks
18:26.02SpeedEvilI would - if I could be arsed - put swap on SD
18:26.48jacekowskibut phone has connection to 2g and 3g at the same time
18:26.53*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG)
18:27.04h4waiiIf the next person comes and asks, and doesn't believe me - I will still hoon them, lcuk. Especially after they didn't read the wiki.
18:27.06javispedroI usually put swap on SD when starting chroots, etc.
18:27.06jacekowskiif both are avaliable
18:27.26jacekowskijavispedro: that's slow
18:27.43jacekowskifastest SD i could find is slower than builtin eMMC
18:27.49jacekowskimicrosd
18:27.56SpeedEvilSlower by what measure?
18:27.57javispedroI know -- but helps prevent the long uptime "turnaround" issue
18:27.59lcukh4waii, the problem you had was you "hooned" him when he was clearly trying to help himself ;)
18:28.01jacekowskiwrite speed
18:28.06lcukremember his actual problem was that search wasnt working
18:28.13SpeedEvilI want per-user swap.
18:28.16SpeedEvilsighs.
18:28.43RST38bistest
18:28.45jacekowskiSpeedEvil: that shouldn't be too complicated
18:28.50SpeedEviltracker runs under the 'nonrealtime' user - and swaps to the nonrealtime device
18:29.02johnxRST38bis, 0/1 tests succeeded
18:29.11javispedrothe issue here is "why tracker swaps"
18:29.22jacekowskibecause it's using too much memory
18:29.27h4waiilcuk, I'm a firm believer that a person should help themselves, before asking for help. That means reading first.
18:29.50h4waiilcuk, had he spent 30 seconds on Google, he would have found it's a carrier/network issue.
18:29.56SpeedEviljavispedro: Tracker was an example.
18:30.01SpeedEvilI'm not sure it swaps.
18:30.04daleglassSpeedEvil: thanks, that's exactly what I was worried about. What I'm pondering is, how much wear does swap put in the eMMC, and would it make sense to get a nice fast card and move swap there to save the device from wear?
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18:30.16SpeedEvildaleglass: probably, yes.
18:30.25javispedrodaleglass: one year N900 owner, quite extensive use, zarro problems.
18:30.33jacekowskidaleglass: it's not like system is writing to swap constantly
18:30.48h4waiiI don't think you'll run into a r/w wear issue for the lifetime of the device.
18:31.11SpeedEviljacekowski: yes it is.
18:31.31daleglasswell I sure hope so, hehe. Still I'd like it to last a long time. I'm not 100% sure if the next nokia phone will be to my liking
18:31.33h4waiiDo you want to thrash to a slow sd, or perform tasks with the quicker eMMC?
18:31.41lcukh4waii, I spent 10 years helping old dears who don't even know how to use a mouse let alone the internet. ;)
18:31.56daleglassI've heard rumors that the next one might be considerably more locked down, and that wouldn't be fun at all
18:32.04h4waiilcuk, more patience than me. I greatly respect that.
18:32.05javispedrowell, buy N900 stocks
18:32.40jacekowskiSpeedEvil: not when it's sleeping it's not
18:32.51jacekowskihmm, to many negations
18:32.54javispedroI am also considering that because N900+1 will have capacitive, so I hope price goes way down soon.
18:32.56lcukh4waii :)
18:33.09RST38bisjohnx: imagine this: I can now run Speccy in a Qt main window, and have even got the config UI working in Qt!
18:33.34daleglassjavispedro: the N900 dropped in price to near half a few months ago, I think
18:33.37RST38bisOk, "working" is a bit of overstatement, but it shows up perfectly well and even scrolls
18:33.41johnxRST38bis, ok, I'm imagining it. how far is it from reality?
18:33.44SpeedEvilTrue.
18:33.50jacekowskihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG3tLxEQEdg
18:33.51lcukRST38bis, cool!  does your emulib work on windows?
18:33.56RST38bisjohnx: Prolly a week of intermittent hacking
18:33.58SpeedEvilRST38: Woo!
18:34.02RST38bislcuk: Even works on DOS
18:34.15lcukhaha
18:34.58johnxRST38bis, so it's not as awful as you thought?
18:35.26MohammadAGwhy did this fail https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/cdrkit_1.1.10-maemo1/
18:35.46RST38bistries to figure out how to receive QButton-clicked events without Qt signals
18:35.48*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu)
18:35.55javispedroMohammadAG: check control file syntax
18:36.14RST38bisBecause the MOC thing ended up being as much of a disaster as the QMake thing
18:36.16javispedroMohammadAG: possibly with debian lenny/squeeze tools
18:36.49*** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz)
18:36.53DocScrutinizerlcuk: I just start to get angry on users claiming "I know the root cause of the problem, not YOU start to fix it for me!"
18:37.03DocScrutinizerwhile they got nfc
18:37.17RST38bisjohnx: Well, I never thought it really awful, but was surprised at how haphazard the thing is
18:37.30DocScrutinizers/not/now
18:38.09johnxRST38bis, mainly turns out to be different levels of polish on the build tools vs the actual toolkit, right?
18:38.11MohammadAGjavispedro, it builds fine on scratchbox, sigh
18:38.12RST38bisjohnx: Basically, yes, you can use Qt signals, but only if your headers and classes are really simple, the way Qt documentation describes
18:38.34RST38bisjohnx: No, the problems appear to be a bit more global than the lack of polish
18:38.45javispedroMohammadAG: on your scratchbox, I know. You should remember that AB is using a more recent version of debian tooling
18:38.50johnxorganic evolution?
18:38.52*** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian)
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18:38.58RST38bisjohnx: For example, a class using Qt signals should be derived from exactly ONE Qt class.
18:39.39RST38bisjohnx: Derive it from more than one, and the whole thing falls victim to a well known C++ "diamond" problem
18:39.44javispedroStroustrup would be proud
18:40.44RST38bisjohnx: And don't you try mixing C++ and C in your header file. MOC will *not* treat it as a C++ header.
18:41.41DocScrutinizerlcuk: if you're really inclined you can search the chan logs for "simple class a" and "dtm" - I'm sure we had all this before, like in february or sth
18:41.42RST38bisjohnx: QMake will quietly drop sources that it *suspects* for circular inclusion from the project.
18:42.24RST38bisjohnx: Which, btw, kills my gfx routines where header includes itself 3 times for different color depths
18:42.32*** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs55.swisscom-mobile.ch)
18:43.08johnxfun times. moral of the story: "Don't be clever" :)
18:43.24RST38bisjohnx: It is a known problem, the comment in the code apparently says "Well, this is wrong anyway, so let us drop it"
18:43.51DocScrutinizeryawns - exhausting and unpleasant topic to argue about
18:44.00DocScrutinizer(dtm)
18:44.28johnxDocScrutinizer, oh, I thought you were asking for suggestions :D
18:44.53DocScrutinizerI'm not usually providing proof of every word I say to help somebody out of a misconception
18:45.20javispedro[citation needed]
18:45.28*** join/#maemo |R (~bob@66.49.162.227)
18:45.40DocScrutinizerif somebody knows so much better than me, then meh - why he's asking first place
18:45.55*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@88-110-219-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
18:45.55*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu)
18:46.26johnxDocScrutinizer, that's why I avoid arguments like that :)
18:47.16lcukDocScrutinizer, I am merely interested in undocumented opinion and verifiable facts, normally you are good at finding them specifically (as you have done since!)
18:50.10pupnik_Why do they call it "TV Programming"?
18:50.47*** join/#maemo niko (~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko)
18:54.47RST38bispupnik: they program your brain over TV!
18:55.03pupnik_yep
18:55.35DocScrutinizerFZ - "I'm the slime..."
18:56.30*** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@116.84-48-228.nextgentel.com)
18:57.33RST38bispupnik: Once you switch the sound off or turn your tv upside down, their dirty tricks no longer work though! =)
18:57.34MohammadAGFOR FUCK'S SAKE
18:57.47MohammadAGare any tmo mods online?
18:57.48MohammadAG+ 10 spam threads
18:57.52RST38bisyes, Mohammad?
18:58.10RevdKathyI notified on the spam - and tweeted Texrat, as it's his forum
18:58.14MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19
18:58.23javispedrodon't worry, tmo vigilantes will soon be dispatched
18:58.35RevdKathyTh guy is working alphabeticly - long way to go to zopiclone
18:58.52RST38bisKathy: When 1) it is spam and 2) you can delete it, delete it, do not tweet rats.
18:59.12RevdKathyHow do I delete it? I don't have mod privileges
18:59.13DocScrutinizer(slime) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdfMkkMnSJI
18:59.23RST38bisoh ok
18:59.42RevdKathyIf I did the guy would have been toast after the second thread. Honest
18:59.49*** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B48791.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:00.28lardman|homehmm, any TMO mods about to purge all posts by "long"?
19:00.39*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08BD34.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:01.08RevdKathyHe started at aciphex and has only got to asacol... Going to be a long night!
19:01.34*** join/#maemo rainbird (~rainbird@ip-94-112-146-208.net.upcbroadband.cz)
19:01.43rainbirdHello peeps
19:01.50*** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@82.132.139.92)
19:02.21lardman|homeRST38bis: how come you're still a mod and I've been de-modified, what did I do wrong? :)
19:02.24*** join/#maemo jerhum (~jerhum@lns-bzn-48f-81-56-244-139.adsl.proxad.net)
19:02.37MohammadAGit's spamming off topic, nice xD
19:02.47*** join/#maemo lardman (~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman)
19:03.21RevdKathyIt's a very tidy, systematic spambot!
19:03.48pupnik_RST38bis: i wear my maemo baseball cap with special filters
19:03.55pupnik_heyas RevdKathy
19:03.58rainbirdim kind of bored with my n900 :( any got any news to spice it up?
19:04.12RST38bislardman: I am not a mod
19:04.15javispedrorainbird: do you have a sledgehammer nearby?
19:04.18pupnik_RevdKathy is like Omap3 whereas pupnik is all Omap2
19:04.20RST38bislardman: never been
19:04.24javispedro;P
19:04.54*** join/#maemo Pio (~sean@cpe-76-167-222-43.socal.res.rr.com)
19:04.58rainbirdRST38bis, I kind of considered it...
19:05.17RST38bisconsidered what?
19:05.20rainbirdoops I mean javispedro
19:05.32*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)
19:06.17lardmanRST38bis: apologies, must have read the wrong response
19:06.40RevdKathyEvening folks - to those who didn;t realise I was here. He's reached the 'b's now.
19:07.22RevdKathyAhhhh doom bar!
19:07.37RST38bisI see he modestly skipped Aminazin...
19:07.44lcukn900oh revdkathy you are here
19:08.05RevdKathyYes - no need to text me!
19:09.05javispedroI feel the sudden urge to buy barrels of Betagan
19:09.28lcukn900i just smsed you
19:09.53RevdKathyI know - I have opened an IRC window for you
19:10.30*** join/#maemo zeenix (zeenix@static.fi)
19:11.18DocScrutinizerlo RevdKathy
19:11.19MNZhmmmm beetaaagen
19:11.37RevdKathyLo DocScrutinizer
19:12.15GAN900'grats, Kathy.
19:12.31RevdKathyThanks Ryan - though confess I'm stil highly bewildered
19:12.47GAN900Ha
19:12.54RevdKathyThink some of the others are wondering what they're stuck with!
19:12.55GAN900It's that damn Talk vote.
19:13.05RevdKathyYeah, definitely
19:13.29RevdKathyMind, if I hadn't stood, SJGadsby would have won... so rather regretting it. :p
19:13.51javispedroRevdKathy: you will still be bewildered by the end of your term...
19:14.14RevdKathyGee Thanks Javispedro. THat's really ressuring!
19:14.20javispedro:)
19:14.23GAN900He's unelectable, apparently.
19:14.32GAN900I think he needs more ego.
19:14.41GAN900javispedro, you aren't kidding.
19:15.04GAN900is still behildered at the end of 3 terms.
19:15.07RevdKathyPossibly. We will have to orchestrate a campaign for him next time!
19:15.14GAN900Aye
19:15.45RST38hwhispers that it probably does not make a difference who gets elected
19:16.09GAN900RST38h, well, now that maemo.org is under community control. . . .
19:16.26javispedroRST38h: not on some topics, but it definitely does on others...
19:16.28RevdKathyI find that thought reassuring
19:16.31RST38hit is just a website
19:16.52jacekowskido you know that in most countries you can't be selected for more than 3 terms
19:16.58*** join/#maemo CoToHaX (~dd@62.84.109.27)
19:17.08RST38hthe real issues (support, bugfixes, continuity with meego) are not going to be addressed by the council
19:17.09MNZhahahahahahaah 3 terms?? ooonnnlyyy?
19:17.26jacekowskiyeah, that gives other people chances to steal from you
19:17.45MNZour current president has been president since 1981
19:17.52jacekowskiwhere?
19:17.56MNZegypt
19:18.09jacekowskii would have to say something
19:18.15CoToHaXhi! how to enable changelog on package site (description), http://maemo.org/packages/view/somepackage? )
19:18.24jacekowskibut because i don't want to be banned i'm not going to
19:18.42h4waiiwtf? MNZ - seriously?
19:18.52RST38hMNZ: Just means the army has not gathered enough money to stage a coup
19:18.55MNZI'm not afraid of being banned. I just don't want to get jailed XD
19:19.05GAN900jacekowski, meh.
19:19.13pupnik_hey javispedro did you see the GPU accelerated psx emulator runing on n95?
19:19.19GAN900jacekowski, it aint a single-person executive position.
19:19.23pupnik_i think 330mhz omap2420
19:19.39MNZarmy's fine with the dude, so are a lot of important (read: rich) people because it works perfectly for them
19:19.52GAN900jacekowski, I wont stand again, so hopefully that satisfies you.
19:20.00*** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-143-44-10.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
19:20.01MNZwith enough protester-bashing and you've got a very nicely balanced regime
19:20.03javispedropupnik_: nope
19:20.22jacekowskiGAN900: i don't have problem with that
19:20.41jacekowskiGAN900: i just stated a fact that for "fair" election system it's done like that
19:20.58jacekowskibut i don't believe that it's fair at all
19:21.10pupnik_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD_bs4O1eFo  N95 psx emulator with powervr SGX gpu acceleration
19:21.23RST38hMNZ: Then he will die peacefully, with his oldest son inheriting the presidency.
19:21.46MNZRST38h, I hope you are not being sarcastic..... seriously
19:21.53MNZbecause that's EXACTLY what's happening....
19:21.57RST38hAnd so forth, until the next heir is degenerative enough to dump it all down the sewer
19:22.08RST38hMNZ: I am not. See Azerbaijan.
19:22.25MNZhe's been diagnosed with stomach cancer. Elections are coming up. He's son is going to win it, hands down.
19:22.32MNZs/He's/His
19:23.29MohammadAGtesting mkisofs and woodim
19:23.41javispedropupnik_: Looks nice ...
19:23.42rainbirddoes anyone know of some altenative desktop for maemo?
19:23.47MohammadAG(writing CDs/DVDs with the N900)
19:23.50javispedroMohammadAG: why not cdrecord? ;)
19:24.14daleglassMohammadAG: how are you planning to do that, btw?
19:24.14MohammadAGwoodim is newer apparently :)
19:24.28MohammadAGhttp://packages.debian.org/sid/cdrecord
19:24.32h4waiidaleglass - USB mounted CDRW.
19:24.39MohammadAGjavispedro, it was dumped/transitioned ^
19:24.45javispedroMohammadAG: it's a fork -- there's some years old flamewar around cdrkit vs cdrecord
19:24.59h4waiicdrecord is better
19:25.11javispedroI agree, specially later versions
19:25.12daleglassh4waii: oh, somebody made usb host mode work?
19:25.14pupnik_qwerty12: http://fukung.net/v/32024/0920230aefe0942433d46a92d8e3eede.jpg  <<<
19:25.34h4waiidaleglass talk to MohammadAG about that :P
19:25.40GAN900jacekowski, OK, so maemo.org's system isn't fair.
19:25.54GAN900jacekowski, propose a referendum then.
19:26.08GAN900Ah, nevermind.
19:26.10RevdKathyDo you have a son to inherit your post, GAN900?
19:26.17GAN900RevdKathy, god no.
19:26.18MohammadAGI only got sarahn's patches working properly
19:26.23MohammadAGtook me a whole summer and a bit
19:26.33RevdKathyNot that yo know of, anyway. :p
19:26.38GAN900RevdKathy, got a cousin, though. :P
19:26.53jacekowskireferendums are not fair
19:26.55RevdKathyCousin, nephew... something like that wil do
19:26.56GAN900shudders.
19:27.23GAN900I move we elect RevdKathy dictator for life.
19:27.27jacekowskibecause referendum cause changes of people that steal from you
19:27.37RevdKathyimagines lots of tiny infants with GAN900's beard.
19:27.40MohammadAGso, where's cdrecord's source?
19:27.52javispedroMohammadAG: for a quick test, don't waste more time :)
19:27.53pupnik_javispedro: maybe we can get psx running on n810 :D
19:27.54jacekowskiif these people don't change, there is only so much somebody can steal
19:28.08jacekowskiand at some point they wouldn't be able to steal more
19:28.25h4waiiMohammadAG, freshmeat?
19:28.39h4waiihttp://freshmeat.net/projects/cdrecord/
19:28.49MohammadAGerr?
19:28.56h4waiierr?
19:29.04MohammadAGstabs perverted part of his mind
19:29.11b-man`lol
19:29.14h4waiiHaha.
19:29.16*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu)
19:29.18javispedropupnik_: hope to see source soon. it will also help smoku (if he hasn't left m.o yet) as he was also trying pvr-accelerated psx gfx
19:29.27*** join/#maemo ototo (~ototo@80-248-245-162.cust.suomicom.fi)
19:29.48javispedropupnik_: on the n810 pvr is not very stable unfortunately :(
19:30.16pupnik_oh well
19:30.34*** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p5B10503D.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:31.50RST38hjavispedro,pupnik: I actually did an OpenGLES1 driver for pcsx
19:32.10pupnik_o_0
19:32.18pupnik_-_-
19:32.27pupnik_>_<
19:32.49nox-moin
19:32.51javispedrooh, I remember reading you started
19:33.14*** part/#maemo rainbird (~rainbird@ip-94-112-146-208.net.upcbroadband.cz)
19:34.26nox-hey pupnik_ have you tried evopedia yet?  (or anyone else...)
19:34.53javispedrooh, moin means hello >_<
19:35.33nox-for me it always complains it cant find the metadata file even tho the filemanager and ls see it...
19:35.43nox-javispedro, yeah :)
19:36.00RST38hjavispedro: It is actually not as fast as one would tink it would be
19:36.13javispedroRST38h: I can see that.
19:36.24RST38hjavispedro: mainly because PSX hw does not map to opengles optimally
19:36.48RST38hjavispedro: PSX has a persistent 1024x1024 buffer where itboth renders video *and* takes textures from
19:37.01javispedrogod
19:37.05RST38hjavispedro: Your plain vanilla OpenGLES1 has no such buffer.
19:37.16javispedroon n900 your only hope is putting that on plain ram
19:37.58RST38hjavispedro: Well your N900 has a 5MB dedicated video buffer afaik
19:38.21*** join/#maemo |R (~bob@66.49.153.229)
19:38.28RST38hjavispedro: So, THAT is not a problem. OpenGLES1 not supporting such a scheme IS a problem.
19:38.57*** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-143-44-10.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
19:39.03javispedroes1 does support it but will force to pause the sgx while reading from it
19:39.11RST38hjavispedro: Second problem is that OpenGLES1 textures have to be loaded into the GPU before they can be used
19:39.12javispedroso performance goes down the toilet
19:39.38RST38hjavispedro: I did implement a texture cache but even then the performance has been low
19:40.03MohammadAGok so...
19:40.07MohammadAGhow do I make this damn image
19:40.17RST38hgles1 native texture format is different from psx format so you have to convert, using cpu
19:41.33javispedroI need to read about psx to follow; the n900 sgx does read a lot of textures supposedly "natively" (i don't know if drivers converts them or not)
19:41.54pupnik_http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5903/1281685964192.jpg   <<< this is RST38h
19:42.20pupnik_lol
19:42.25nox-haha
19:42.41nox-btw RST38h is you nick a z80 reference?
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19:43.49javispedrowell, leaving for food. bbs.
19:48.00villagerRST38h: shouldn't you look into opengles2 then? I think the n900 hardware is natively gles2, I think the gles1 stuff is emulated on top of gles2...
19:50.29MohammadAGburning CD using N900 - working fine :D
19:50.43CoToHaXlol
19:52.02pupnik_MohammadAG: really?  what is supplying power to the cd?
19:52.44kerioMohammadAG: haha it's ridiculously awesome
19:53.19keriowrite a UI that lets you pick songs from the library
19:53.42nox-wow MohammadAG, using usb host mode?
19:53.50MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=826203&postcount=101
19:53.52wmaroneMohammadAG: impressive :D
19:53.52kerionox-: no, using the flash
19:54.18kerioyou have to spin the disc over the camera hole with your hands
19:54.29MohammadAGlmfao
19:54.34nox-rofl
19:56.28pupnik_hmm, cellphone with external cd-rw
19:56.45nox-haha
19:56.50pupnik_motor spindle and actuator along the back, set the device face-down on the table and pop on the cd
19:56.51MohammadAGDVD-RW*
19:57.39DocScrutinizeris frowning about everybody jumping to make <bizarre_device> working on N900 via USB, while that's really the boring part and should work just like on every other USB enabled host - while the real issue which is "make *hostmode* reliable and reproducable for everyone" just seems to fall off at far end of table
19:59.29kerioDocScrutinizer: your real issue is not newsworthy
19:59.35kerio;)
20:01.11keriohmm, apparently they ported psgroove to the ps3 controller
20:01.34kerioi wanna see how sony's going to block that
20:01.51h4waiiQuite easily.
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20:02.18h4waiiThey'll fix the code execution issue.
20:02.35johnxkerio, ahahahaha! that's awesome in every way
20:03.48GAN900DocScrutinizer, but that's boring.
20:04.15johnxDocScrutinizer, a lot of people who have it working reliably for *themselves* are happy enough to move on to what they see as 'unsolved' problems
20:04.34keriofor various value of reliably
20:04.36kerio*values
20:04.41johnxit's a hacker mentality, to solve the 'thought' portion of the problem, and leave the 'implementation' part up to others
20:05.09DocScrutinizerjohnx: *nobody* has it working reliably. Believe me, it simply can not work reliably
20:05.31johnxreliable enough *for their own purposes* I should have said
20:05.49DocScrutinizerthey will notice soon enough
20:06.24johnxgreat. then your problem will solve itself *shrugs*
20:06.27DocScrutinizerit's about critical timing and electrical properties of the particular device
20:06.34*** join/#maemo Robotnixon (~robitnixo@41.130.30.237)
20:07.33DocScrutinizertake device out to the sun, or install another process changing the timing of the whole thing, and :-S
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20:09.17DocScrutinizerbut meh, I knew it'll be like this, when we pondered about publishing a debug test kernel with a however rudimentary UI that allows non-devels to "use" it
20:11.12DocScrutinizerand I dare to have a glance to my crystal ball and tell the future: hostmode development will stall, while tmo gets spammed by 10^5 tips about how to make it work, which all are same nonsense
20:12.16MohammadAGliked it wasn't stalled already mate
20:12.23MohammadAGwe were in a situation like noepwn's
20:12.32h4waiiLOL. Hardly.
20:12.36DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: uhuh
20:12.38MohammadAGno development, all stuff was closed in one channel
20:13.01h4waiiWe're working on fixing that.
20:13.19DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: wasn't that you who advocated the loudest to close the hostmode thread on tmo?
20:13.25h4waiiUSB Host Mode wasn't private.
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20:13.53MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yes, I thought we'd progress
20:14.04MohammadAGbut three (or 4?) months passed with no progress, at all
20:14.08DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: now you're complaining about some 'closedness' of a garage project
20:14.35DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: that makes no sense
20:14.43MohammadAGI'm not complaining about anything
20:14.57DocScrutinizermeh
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20:19.15johnxstrangely, I'm actually pretty excited about the Qt-WRT stuff as well :)
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20:22.45CoToHaXso, how to enable changelog on package description? )
20:25.54*** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106)
20:33.51DocScrutinizerCoToHaX: what you're talking about?
20:34.27CoToHaXfor example: http://maemo.org/packages/view/qcpufreq/
20:34.51CoToHaXcontains changelog :)
20:35.04CoToHaXmy packages don't :)
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20:38.19h4waiihm. Somebody broke something in dpkg status
20:38.58DocScrutinizerCoToHaX: you got the proper changelog file in your package?
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20:42.16DocScrutinizerCoToHaX: I have a file /scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/starhash-enabler/debian/changelog and it has exactly same content that's showing up on http://maemo.org/packages/view/starhash-enabler/ changes section. I haven't enabled anything
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20:43.52Stskeepshttp://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-24/sony-ericsson-is-planning-no-new-symbian-products.html - heh
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20:45.00h4waiiWhat the hell is osso-applet-memory?
20:45.30DocScrutinizerCoToHaX: anyway in /scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/starhash-enabler/debian/control there's a XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description: section that's holding the display in HAM when you update the pkg
20:46.07DocScrutinizerbut that's unrelated to changelog on garage website
20:52.44h4waiidpkg is writing bad information to /var/lib/dpkg/status
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20:56.59MNZhttp://cobaia.net/2010/09/top-funny-source-code-comments/ <-- hahahahaha!
20:57.15b-man`:)
20:59.11b-man`"never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down" xD
21:02.48RevdKathyNight all!
21:02.53MNZo/
21:06.09daleglassOk, something odd is going on. I rebooted, now /home/user/MyDocs seems gone, and I get "Stale NFS handle" when I try to mount it
21:06.26daleglassI'm pretty sure I didn't touch anything that could have done that
21:07.21DocScrutinizerdaleglass: ouch
21:07.27DocScrutinizerfsck
21:07.40DocScrutinizerfsck.vfat to be precise
21:07.54DocScrutinizerif you're lucky it will fix it
21:09.10daleglassDocScrutinizer: it dumps a bunch of numbers, sector numbers I'm guessing. It outputs checked clusters and files stats, but doesn't say anything about fixing anything, or finding anything wrong
21:09.42DocScrutinizer'stale NFS handle' is fs-driver's standard comment when something's so fubar it doesn't make nay sense at all
21:10.24daleglasswell that's just awesome
21:10.26DocScrutinizerdaleglass: check the mountpoint fs
21:12.04DocScrutinizerdaleglass: actually I fail to see how a VFAT could have any NFS handles at all, no matter if stale or not. Maybe I'm wrong
21:12.15daleglassDocScrutinizer: hm, good call. I can mount vfat in a directory in /tmp/
21:12.28DocScrutinizeryeah
21:12.29daleglassok, so I figure that means /home is broken. What now?
21:12.48DocScrutinizerumount /home, fsck.ext3
21:13.30DocScrutinizerthis might get tricky though
21:13.36daleglasscan't unmount it, there's a bunch of stuff using it
21:13.44DocScrutinizeryep
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21:14.23DocScrutinizerwell - a full reflash will probably fix it. But I guess that's not exactly what you want to do?
21:14.47daleglasswould like to avoid it if possible
21:14.58DocScrutinizer:nod:
21:15.26DocScrutinizertoss in the fsck to the init scripts, just before the mount commands?
21:16.22lcukMNZ, those are awesome!
21:16.30DocScrutinizerthe worst thing that can happen is you create a bootloop and have to reflash :-P
21:16.36lcukhas some similar
21:17.01MNZhas nothing this awesome :(
21:17.12lcukMNZ, then now is the time!
21:18.04MNZRight on top of my list of things to do. Just need to start coding something :P hehe
21:18.56zashWho doesn't "Just need to start coding something" ;P
21:20.32MNZzash, the folks at #meego-arm apparently :P
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21:21.28keriodaleglass: hmm
21:21.34keriofsck in readonly
21:21.40keriosee if there's actually a problem there
21:21.49lcuklol MNZ
21:23.35MNZDocScrutinizer, remember that audio cookbook thingie? I got it implemented with a gui and all today morning.
21:23.39MNZIt doesn't work
21:23.48daleglasskerio: pretty sure there is, I noticed there was no MyDocs in /home/user, and got the NFS handle thing when trying to mkdir it
21:26.35DocScrutinizerMNZ: :-S
21:27.49MNZdon't get me wrong, not the HW/kernel side. The equations have something wrong AFAICT
21:27.53jacekowskiwell, reiserfs seems to be more reliable in terms of filesystem integrity
21:28.34MNZor maybe there's more than one way to create a specific filter, but in any case the stuff from audio cookbook cause some weird shit
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22:18.19DocScrutinizermnooh, then there's still hope
22:18.46DocScrutinizermnz: ^^
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22:54.55rainbirdhi there, im looking for some hildon desktop mods...I have a n900 but i'd like to see some desktop mods like start menu etc
22:56.19kerioi'd like to see jessica alba doing a strip-tease for me
22:57.02rainbirdyes but this isn;t the Jessica Alba irc chat
22:57.28lcukrainbird, explain a start menu, since pressing a single button now brings up an app menu?
22:58.06lcukand kerio, if you don't ask, you don't get
22:58.12lcukhow much money have you offered :P
22:58.35rainbirdbasically, I'm using maemo5...but i'd like a similar style to previous versions... like a start menu in gnome at the top with a text menu rather than icons
22:58.48rainbirdim just wandering if anyone done it, im not sure how to do it myself
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22:59.06lcukwell hildon desktop on maemo4 had similar i believe
22:59.21lcukis that more like what you are thinking?
22:59.43rainbirdI guess so... but i dont wanna go back in time :)
22:59.50lcukhttp://www.mobilelinuxinfo.com/images/nokia-n810-wimax-1.jpg
22:59.52lcuksure
23:00.15lcukbut hildon is open and hence i am betting it exists somewhere in amongst there
23:00.38lcukcant actually remember which package its in
23:00.52lcukis coding anyway
23:00.57lcukdives away
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23:01.11rainbirdI saw some devices which are probably japanese, cheap MID's with what appears to be some customization of hildon..im a bit disapointed in the amount of hildon customization thats been done on maemo5/n900, cant blame anyone..I haven't really tried myself :)
23:01.53lcukwell rainbird theres 3 alternative menu managers
23:02.05lcuka boat load of keybinding related tweaks
23:02.10lcuka 9desktop version
23:02.16lcukand whatever i have missed
23:02.35rainbirdok well i better get googling, thanks lcuk
23:02.39lcukbut on the whole, customisation by setting up various desktops appears to suffice for most hackers
23:02.42lcuk\o
23:03.05rainbirdyup
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23:12.53DocScrutinizerwho's servicing mxr aka http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/style/h.css, resp why is there some strange "** Warning:" with no further detail text in e.g. http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/isp1704.h (sourcecode of that page line 78)?
23:13.28lcukthats timeless normally, but he is on travels DocScrutinizer
23:13.36DocScrutinizer:-S
23:13.45DocScrutinizeryou got an idea if that's normal?
23:14.35DocScrutinizerseems I get "** Warning:" and "** Fatal!" recently, the latter on identifier searches that never yield any hit
23:14.38lcukDocScrutinizer, doesn't look it, but its not stopping it working
23:14.47DocScrutinizer... or I'm doing something stupid
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23:15.17lcukask him next time you see him :)
23:15.24DocScrutinizerk, thnx
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23:20.00DocScrutinizerwhat's a 'static inline int blabla', in C ?
23:20.29DocScrutinizerstatic is known, int as well
23:20.46DocScrutinizerwhat's inline? only know this for assembler
23:21.05lcukinline is a hint to the compiler
23:21.11DocScrutinizeraah k
23:22.26lcukby the way, the mxr.meego.com doesn't appear to give those warnings.  I just did a little check (that file is missing) but it doesn't seem to matter
23:22.28lcukhttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/kernel-2.6.33/linux-2.6.33/drivers/usb/README
23:22.30lcukfor example
23:25.19*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
23:26.55DocScrutinizermeh, mxr has zero crossreference links anymore. I remeber a cool feature where you could click any identifier and get to a list of defines and references. Now it's all plain text. This goes along the line of "** Fatal!" for the explicit search for identifiers
23:27.00*** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@dhcp-128-194-72-194.resnet.tamu.edu)
23:27.07DocScrutinizeror IOW: mxr is borked
23:28.29DocScrutinizerhttp://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ident?i=musb_save_ctx_and_suspend&tree=fremantle&filter=   --> "** Fatal:" + null
23:28.54*** join/#maemo akeripper (~akeripper@213-21-75-230.bon.t3.se)
23:29.21DocScrutinizermxr == Maemo Xross Reference. Seems we should change the name :-P
23:33.50lcukwhwat an awesome post http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/09/25/2150228/Dont-Cross-the-LHC-Stream-Maybe
23:34.01lcukthe questions and responses are cool
23:34.57lardman_night chaps
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23:41.54deltbbl (when i get the CABLE that is supposed to come with my n810) ...sigh (wtf was wrong with the mini-usb connectors?!??!?!?
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23:42.42GAN900Less durable? Larger?
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23:49.05satmdactually, the EU said, manufacturers have to find a COMMON adapter for their cell phones
23:49.22satmdmicro usb has become the defacto standard since then
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23:49.44satmdthe companies are trying to avoid being fined for having zillions of different chargers :P
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23:51.46SpeedEvilEU and china
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