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| 00:16.32 | MohammadAG | https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-September/028014.html hmm? |
| 00:21.58 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Did you see poke about bug 2563, btw? |
| 00:21.59 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2563 Please provide an attribution line for replying |
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| 00:23.21 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, yes, it's already in the SSU repo, added it about a week ago :P |
| 00:23.27 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Ah, cool. |
| 00:23.31 | MohammadAG | but I lost the metapackage, and reprepro isn't working on the server |
| 00:23.39 | MohammadAG | fixed ssh on my router today |
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| 00:23.52 | MohammadAG | had a redirect which points any port 22 crap to my N900 |
| 00:23.59 | Jaffa | Heh |
| 00:24.13 | MohammadAG | so if i ssh to the maemo autobuilder I end up on my N900 |
| 00:24.30 | Jaffa | Oops |
| 00:24.41 | Jaffa | has 3.90.7-1 of modest, FWIW |
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| 00:29.17 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, that should be the newest one.... |
| 00:29.35 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, send me an email with a word or two, I'll reply |
| 00:29.40 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Hmm, attribution line doesn't seem to work. Still get '------- Original message ------' |
| 00:29.44 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: addr? |
| 00:29.51 | MohammadAG | got it? |
| 00:29.59 | MohammadAG | I /notice'd it |
| 00:30.06 | Jaffa | clever |
| 00:30.15 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 00:30.47 | Jaffa | Sent |
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| 00:32.21 | Jaffa | Was there ever an announcement about the repo, btw? |
| 00:33.00 | MohammadAG | no, as I said, GPG is failing on me |
| 00:33.36 | Jaffa | Need a hand (not now, shouldb e in bed) |
| 00:33.39 | Jaffa | ? |
| 00:34.20 | MohammadAG | sure, can we check it out tomorrow? |
| 00:34.27 | MohammadAG | I'll ask lma if we have more problems |
| 00:34.36 | MohammadAG | Sent a reply |
| 00:35.42 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, got the reply? |
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| 00:36.46 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, if you don't have the same reply try to |
| 00:36.50 | MohammadAG | rm /var/cache/apt/archives/modest_3.90.7-1_armel.deb |
| 00:36.54 | MohammadAG | apt-get --reinstall install modest |
| 00:37.10 | timeless_pidgin | Anyone here know anyone working on pidgin? |
| 00:38.42 | TermanaDesire | Do bird trainers qualify? |
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| 00:39.51 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Ooh, after apt-get clean, the version in /var/cache/apt/archives is different size. |
| 00:39.54 | ALoGeNo | any way to run maemo in qemu? (not meego), or any way of emulate the whole maemo? |
| 00:39.59 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Is bug 3700 patch included, btw? |
| 00:40.00 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3700 Put signatures not on top in replies (thereby not forcing top-post) |
| 00:40.02 | luke-jr | ALoGeNo: no |
| 00:40.03 | ALoGeNo | in the wiki i dont see clean |
| 00:40.11 | timeless_pidgin | Only if they can train this bird to leave fewer tirds and use smaller prints |
| 00:40.21 | ALoGeNo | hey luke-jr ! kk ty |
| 00:40.26 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: YAY! It's wonderful and working |
| 00:40.38 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: I'd not've thought about the archives. Wonderful. |
| 00:40.43 | timeless_pidgin | Alogeno: maemo can run in system-qemu |
| 00:40.46 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: And bug 3700 is included :-) |
| 00:41.25 | timeless_pidgin | Jaffa: including bugs is awful. Include fixes! Not bugs! |
| 00:41.39 | Jaffa | timeless_pidgin: s/bug/patch on bug/ |
| 00:41.40 | MohammadAG | LOL |
| 00:42.02 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, I should've bumped version numbers when I updated the packages :) |
| 00:42.32 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Yes; yes you should ;-p |
| 00:42.42 | Jaffa | reinstalls everything in the repo to make sure it's current |
| 00:44.15 | timeless_pidgin | So, no pidgin trainers? :-( |
| 00:44.29 | ALoGeNo | timeless_pidgin, how? you have some link or so please? |
| 00:44.51 | timeless_pidgin | Nope :-) |
| 00:44.51 | ALoGeNo | you mean maemo without X no? |
| 00:45.09 | ALoGeNo | something like meego? |
| 00:45.47 | timeless_pidgin | Roughly, qemu w/o system-qemu doesn't handle threads well. So graphical applications that need threads and useful debuging need system-qemu |
| 00:46.10 | ALoGeNo | with meego qemu image you cant don nothing.. keyb dont work mouse dont work.. not x.. |
| 00:46.17 | timeless_pidgin | maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/read/d6eca3a26a6911df9735417902e5b02db02d/ |
| 00:46.45 | ALoGeNo | oky doky timeless_pidgin :) you are so kind |
| 00:47.59 | timeless_pidgin | www.lmgtfy.com/?q=system+qemu+maemo |
| 00:48.30 | TermanaDesire | No bird trainers that can do that :p. Have you tried the official channel for pidgin, if they have one timeless_pidgin? |
| 00:48.37 | timeless_pidgin | You've spent your one free question |
| 00:48.52 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, the new hildon-desktop needs to have /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini edited if you want the scrolling fix, I'll make it default to 0.99 |
| 00:48.58 | timeless_pidgin | Nope, i suppose i could... |
| 00:49.02 | TermanaDesire | If they know someone working on pidgin* |
| 00:49.51 | timeless_pidgin | hops along |
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| 00:50.53 | ALoGeNo | wow timeless_pidgin , sometimes the correct key words in google does miracles.. tnx |
| 00:52.46 | timeless_pidgin | Alogeno : i tried giving them to you a couple of times... |
| 00:57.46 | ALoGeNo | thank you very much timeless_pidgin :) |
| 00:58.18 | MohammadAG | bah |
| 00:58.19 | MohammadAG | Firefox had a problem and crashed. We'll try to restore your tabs and windows when it restarts. |
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| 01:11.20 | sandstorm|mobile | hey, I cant see userlist on xchat what might be the problem? |
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| 01:12.13 | timeless_pidgin | Re firefox, load about:crashes |
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| 01:49.45 | timeless_pidgin | Note to self: shoot opera for being stupid |
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| 01:58.24 | SpeedEvil | I wish pidgin was a little less retarded. |
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| 02:00.50 | wmarone | but then it wouldn't be pidgin |
| 02:02.09 | SpeedEvil | My major objection is with either pidgin, or some unnamed contributor to the linux 2.4 kernel. |
| 02:02.34 | SpeedEvil | In 2.4 times, you could do sockdown() on a network descriptor in /proc/nnn/fd/ |
| 02:02.41 | SpeedEvil | Even if it was not your own. |
| 02:03.02 | SpeedEvil | This let you tear down connections without waiting for the stack to timeout, f you knew rthe connection had gone away. |
| 02:03.32 | SpeedEvil | But with pidgin - you have to disable and then reenable the account to do that. |
| 02:03.45 | SpeedEvil | In practice, I kill and restart it. |
| 02:03.52 | SpeedEvil | I should setup a bouncer. |
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| 02:21.49 | timeless_pidgin | Heh |
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| 02:22.08 | timeless_pidgin | I finally was told how to hide the useless formating bar in pidgin |
| 02:22.53 | SpeedEvil | timeless: I find it useful to have the tab bar down the right-hand-side. Oh - and you can make channel name aliases for the tab bar. |
| 02:23.05 | SpeedEvil | I have tabs OSM HOS MD ... |
| 02:23.53 | SpeedEvil | right click on a chat in the buddy list, and set an alias |
| 02:24.56 | timeless_pidgin | How do i get tabbar on right? |
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| 02:27.41 | SpeedEvil | buddy window - tools ->preferences->interface -> tabs |
| 02:30.59 | timeless_pidgin | How do i get the buddy window? |
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| 02:32.36 | SpeedEvil | what version is thsi? |
| 02:32.48 | timeless_pidgin | Oops browser crashed |
| 02:32.55 | timeless_pidgin | Dunno, version me? |
| 02:33.10 | timeless_pidgin | I had a buddy window. I lost it. |
| 02:33.19 | timeless_pidgin | I can't find it anymore |
| 02:34.02 | timeless_pidgin | ii pidgin 2.7.3-0nix2 |
| 02:34.09 | *** part/#maemo timeless_pidgin (~timeless@82.132.136.194) |
| 02:34.42 | SpeedEvil | ah - I'm on 2.5.9 |
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| 02:37.08 | timeless_pidgin | Err |
| 02:37.20 | timeless_pidgin | How do i *not* see the tabbar when i don't need it? |
| 02:37.47 | timeless_pidgin | And how do i open the buddy window w/o quiting? |
| 02:38.17 | SpeedEvil | Unsure. |
| 02:38.25 | SpeedEvil | I always have it visible |
| 02:38.37 | SpeedEvil | Is this on maemo? |
| 02:38.43 | timeless_pidgin | Yup |
| 02:38.53 | SpeedEvil | ah - right - it'll have been wierdised. |
| 02:38.54 | timeless_pidgin | Does anything else exist? |
| 02:39.04 | SpeedEvil | I can't run maeo on my laptop. |
| 02:39.21 | timeless_pidgin | Why not? |
| 02:39.32 | SpeedEvil | native |
| 02:39.33 | timeless_pidgin | mer exists in iso form |
| 02:39.34 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, all hildon is open |
| 02:39.48 | SpeedEvil | That is not maemo. |
| 02:39.54 | lcuk | there might be a few apps missing |
| 02:40.03 | lcuk | but they can be filled up from extras |
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| 02:40.34 | SpeedEvil | I'm sorry - if vital apps such as 'Blocks' cannot be there, I'm not using it. |
| 02:40.36 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 02:42.03 | timeless_pidgin | Define "cannot" |
| 02:42.14 | timeless_pidgin | I had blocks and friends on my x86 mer |
| 02:42.24 | timeless_pidgin | ... I used a nokia internal repo... |
| 02:42.35 | timeless_pidgin | ;-) |
| 02:43.50 | SpeedEvil | torrent? |
| 02:43.51 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 02:43.52 | timeless_pidgin | Fwiw, iiuc, blocks was a third party app that nokia kinda imported |
| 02:43.59 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 02:44.02 | timeless_pidgin | No :-b |
| 02:44.04 | SpeedEvil | Along with the bugs. |
| 02:44.19 | timeless_pidgin | Ayup |
| 02:44.25 | timeless_pidgin | That part sucked |
| 02:44.35 | timeless_pidgin | game over. You loose (slut) |
| 02:44.50 | SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 I was thinking of. |
| 02:44.51 | povbot | Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug |
| 02:47.07 | timeless_pidgin | Nice |
| 02:48.58 | Robot101 | timeless_pidgin: not that 3rd - I thought it was nokia bangalore? |
| 02:53.24 | timeless_pidgin | Hrm, i thought it was brazil |
| 02:53.33 | timeless_pidgin | Indt |
| 02:53.46 | timeless_pidgin | I could be wrong |
| 02:54.24 | timeless_pidgin | I didn't think nokia bangalore was involved in maemo until more recently... |
| 02:54.55 | timeless_pidgin | If at all... |
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| 05:04.32 | ALoGeNo | hey guys i need the SDK to run madde? |
| 05:04.54 | ALoGeNo | toolchain or so? |
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| 05:44.47 | sobczyk | ALoGeNo: no |
| 05:46.00 | sobczyk | just the qt creator |
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| 06:50.36 | jacktheripper | since there's no more save/load state in psx4all (WHY?), is there at least some option to pause rendering ? |
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| 07:40.18 | jaem | How do I kill matchbox on Diablo and keep it dead? It keeps respawning? |
| 07:40.29 | jaem | That last sentence wasn't a question. :S |
| 07:41.35 | johnx | replace it with something a script named matchbox that starts and just sleeps forever? |
| 07:41.41 | johnx | s/something// |
| 07:42.06 | jaem | johnx: Sure, but I'm wondering what makes it respawn in the first place. matchbox-remote -exit does not work. |
| 07:42.23 | MNZ | jaem, probably init scripts. not sure about Diablo, but if it uses upstart then probably 'stop matchbox' |
| 07:42.24 | johnx | probably watched by the watchdog? |
| 07:42.44 | jaem | MNZ: It might be init scripts, but it doesn't use upstart, IIRC |
| 07:42.56 | jaem | johnx: Which watchdog? |
| 07:42.57 | TermanaDesire | I don't think Diablo used upstart |
| 07:43.15 | johnx | jaem, that's left as an exercise to the reader (aka, I don't know) |
| 07:43.39 | jaem | johnx: Heh... fair enough |
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| 09:05.29 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 09:05.37 | n900_user | hello good evening everyone. I'm not sure what is wrong with my n900, but I don't seem to have an /apps/osso/hildon-home folder..why could that be? I'm on or should be on PR 1.2 |
| 09:06.15 | johnx | I don't have that either. are you sure that's the exact path? |
| 09:06.29 | DocScrutinizer | grep -r matchbox /etc -- should help but he's gone it seems |
| 09:06.29 | n900_user | is that something I install or is that something that should be already on my n900 because of PR 1.2? Is it possible that I did not completely reset my n900 back to factory before I upgraded to 1.2? |
| 09:06.57 | johnx | why do you think you need that directory? |
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| 09:07.19 | n900_user | johnx: if you look at this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62091&page=8 they are talking about running those commands to resize the icons |
| 09:07.36 | n900_user | i for some reason don't have that command...and i'm wondering what the problem could be. |
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| 09:10.02 | timoph | those gconf things are not paths in filesystem |
| 09:10.29 | johnx | n900_user, if you don't know what a command does, you should read up on it |
| 09:10.38 | johnx | gconftool is well documented |
| 09:11.33 | n900_user | johnx: i know what the command does, but the problem is that I don't have those paths on my n900. I just don't know if I did something wrong when I reset it months ago when PR 1.2 came out or not. I'd hate to having to wipe again to factory default because I've already got so much on my phone right now. |
| 09:12.02 | n900_user | timoph: so my phone is completely normal if I don't have those things? because I do not see a single folder starting with /apps/ |
| 09:12.12 | jpinx | I can't find a config file for sshd in the n900's maemo - does it not exist and can I create one and if so, where and what to call it? |
| 09:12.30 | timoph | n900_user: yes |
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| 09:13.18 | johnx | n900_user, you don't know what the command does if you think those are paths on your filesystem |
| 09:14.26 | johnx | jpinx, it's in /etc/ssh and it's called sshd_config |
| 09:14.56 | jpinx | johnx: I was able to ls that, but when I went to cat it it says no such file |
| 09:15.09 | johnx | are you root? |
| 09:15.12 | DocScrutinizer | jaem: (away): $AF_INIT_DIR/matchbox.sh -> #!/bin/sh # Matchbox window manager startup/shutdown script |
| 09:15.16 | jpinx | yep ;) |
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| 09:16.06 | johnx | jpinx, run cat /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
| 09:16.13 | jpinx | hang on - there's 2 - one is ssh_config and he other is shd_config |
| 09:17.30 | jpinx | so which one do I play with to get X-forwarding to work? |
| 09:17.59 | alterego | sshd like he said |
| 09:18.35 | johnx | jpinx, you should play with whatever file you're told to edit in the howto you're following ;) |
| 09:18.47 | jpinx | johnx: :) |
| 09:19.11 | jpinx | johnx: I actually want to forward X froma chroot - no howto's for that ;) |
| 09:19.47 | johnx | jpinx, are you running a separate x server in the chroot? |
| 09:19.59 | jpinx | johnx: yes |
| 09:20.19 | johnx | and things run in the chroot connect to it normally? |
| 09:20.50 | jpinx | johnx: I've only been doing cl stuff up till now |
| 09:21.12 | jpinx | this instance of irssi is running int the chroot on the n900 and contrrolled from my eeepc ;) |
| 09:21.36 | jpinx | ssh over usb, with the eeepc wifi doing the gateway |
| 09:21.51 | johnx | you know irssi is available in extras or extras-devel/testing, right? |
| 09:22.31 | jpinx | johnx: yea - I installed it in maemo too, but i am spending all my time in the chroot now and wanted to get maybe links2 -g to work over ssh |
| 09:23.08 | jpinx | I started with the standard chroot supplied by maemo and then went on to modify it a bit |
| 09:24.04 | psycho_oreos | n900_user, those directories that you can't see are virtual hives, they don't exist on the real filesystem |
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| 09:25.10 | n900_user | psycho_oreos: thanks for checking up on that. i just wonder why all those people then say that they can successfully use those commands in order to resize their icons/shortcuts |
| 09:25.11 | johnx | jpinx, yup. what you're tring to do isn't actually that simple. I would draw out a network diagram for yourself including maemo and the debian chroot as separate machines, then try and follow a howto and substitute in the right things for your setup |
| 09:25.16 | psycho_oreos | think of it as like registry entries under windows |
| 09:25.18 | DocScrutinizer | jaem: $LAUNCHWRAPPER_NICE_TRYRESTART start "$SVC" $PROG -- does what it says: tryrestart, it uses DSME afaik |
| 09:26.04 | jpinx | johnx: you're right - I have paper sketches of it all over the table here - to try and make sure I don't miss a "link"' |
| 09:26.12 | psycho_oreos | n900_user, its a good idea to read the thread from the beginning, there's a script which would automate getting the stuff that is maybe required for it to work including matan's modified hildon-home |
| 09:27.13 | johnx | (or if you read the manpage for gconftool you'd know what it actually does ... ) |
| 09:27.24 | johnx | n900_user, ^ |
| 09:28.22 | psycho_oreos | I don't think the manpage would be easily available on the n900 itself :) there's a script or something that goes around truncating manpages to save space |
| 09:28.42 | johnx | it is available on google though |
| 09:28.54 | psycho_oreos | or scratchbox env :) |
| 09:29.14 | johnx | if you type: man gconftool into google, the first hit is the manpage for gconftool |
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| 09:31.27 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: apt-cache search mandb |
| 09:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: my manpages are very easily available n N900 |
| 09:32.12 | johnx | wow. will that do the right thing and un-truncate existing pages, then optify the result? |
| 09:32.16 | MohammadAG51 | just woke up |
| 09:32.37 | MohammadAG51 | existing pages are poof, gone |
| 09:33.20 | MohammadAG51 | although i started a package which does that, i realized it might cause failed installations |
| 09:33.41 | MohammadAG51 | plus it's too cumbersome, you have to reinstall all packages on the system |
| 09:34.40 | johnx | well, you could make a 'man' command that reinstallls the package that owns the manpage, then displays it :D |
| 09:35.15 | MohammadAG51 | right now it has man-db-pages |
| 09:35.32 | MohammadAG51 | those contain pages for most commands you'll want to man anyways |
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| 09:37.24 | johnx | but not the pages for the busybox versions, right? |
| 09:37.39 | MohammadAG51 | probably not |
| 09:37.46 | MohammadAG51 | i.e tar is gtar |
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| 09:37.58 | MohammadAG51 | doesn't use busybox |
| 09:38.27 | johnx | ah, it hasn't quite pissed me off enough to stop using it yet |
| 09:40.50 | johnx | mmm. I <3 deals.woot.com. ninja grappling hook: $17.36 |
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| 09:53.17 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 09:53.43 | DocScrutinizer | grr |
| 09:53.44 | Jaffa | MohammadAG51: Need a hand with GPG? |
| 09:53.49 | DocScrutinizer | moo mo |
| 09:53.52 | DocScrutinizer | screw messybox, manpages fr useless cruft are useless anyway |
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| 09:55.22 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, thank you for you for your valuable opinion. however, if you want to write any script that you plan to distribute you do actually need to know busybox |
| 09:57.19 | stef_204 | hi, new to n900. i just added http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel for extra devel mirror but getting error 404. Is there another url for it? |
| 09:58.47 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: that's kinda sadly correct |
| 09:59.10 | johnx | stef_204, that part seems right |
| 09:59.22 | johnx | it might be the 'components' field that you mistyped though |
| 09:59.25 | johnx | or the other one ... |
| 09:59.30 | johnx | let me see what mine says, one sec |
| 09:59.55 | stef_204 | ok, i used this--on bottom of page http://nokia-n900.com/office-viewer-for-nokia-n900/ |
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| 10:00.20 | stef_204 | http://www.mobiledownloadblog.com/2010/01/download-freoffice-maemo-application.htm |
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| 10:00.26 | stef_204 | I meant that one ^^ |
| 10:00.31 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: but actually script writers of initscripts should even better have known about the *differences* between messybox and a decent shell plus coreutils, to avoid breaking init when messybox is replaced by a more sane setup |
| 10:00.38 | stef_204 | Distribution: freemantle |
| 10:00.46 | stef_204 | Components: free |
| 10:01.05 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, which is often *why* I need to know busybox, so I can avoid breaking maemo or on "better" shells |
| 10:01.20 | johnx | stef_204, misspelled fremantle ;) |
| 10:01.25 | stef_204 | Distrib perhaps is wrong? I see there is also freemantle 1.2 and 1.3 |
| 10:01.37 | stef_204 | johnx: yikes ;) |
| 10:01.43 | johnx | :) |
| 10:02.08 | johnx | also, am I like the last one who noticed a 1.3 in the extras repo? does that mean anything or ... ? |
| 10:02.19 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: I'm afraid the really nasty busyboxisms aren't even mentioned in busybox manpages - if there even is such a thing |
| 10:02.30 | stef_204 | lemme correct that. what's teh deal with using fremantle instead of fremantle-1.2 or fremantle-1.3 ? |
| 10:02.56 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, there is. on their website. haven't found a discrepancy yet, but obviously YMMV |
| 10:03.08 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: nope, for now that 1.3 is just a link to prepare for a bright future :-) |
| 10:03.29 | johnx | stef_204, if I had to guess, I'd bet that fremantle just pointed to whatever the 'current' release was |
| 10:03.37 | stef_204 | johnx: ok |
| 10:03.40 | johnx | fremantle-1.2 should be safe too I suppose |
| 10:03.51 | stef_204 | ok thanks. |
| 10:04.03 | stef_204 | anyone here running openoffice applications on n900? |
| 10:04.48 | johnx | speaking for myself, I'm not a masochist |
| 10:05.24 | stef_204 | johnx: me neither, which is whay I am trying to get some feedback |
| 10:05.26 | stef_204 | ;) |
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| 10:05.53 | jpinx | even *I* don't do that :) |
| 10:06.00 | johnx | my experience is that it's pretty glacial on even modern notebook/desktop hardware |
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| 10:07.04 | stef_204 | johnx: ?? I run openoffice on my laptop (linux mandriva) and no problems--perhaps I didn't understand your last comment |
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| 10:07.49 | johnx | dunno. it just seems pretty heavy and slow even on a machine with 1GB of RAM |
| 10:08.11 | jpinx | stef_204: are you in a chroot? |
| 10:08.31 | jpinx | OOo is for *big* desktops ;) |
| 10:08.32 | stef_204 | jpinx: no, haven't gotten there yet |
| 10:09.05 | jpinx | running stuff like OOo and gimp onthe n900 is just - well, I won't |
| 10:09.32 | stef_204 | I have 2 GB's RAM on laptop and owrks fine. Compatibility with formatting with MS Office is not that great though, e.g. PowerPoint presentation formatting gets a bit screwed up and that's annoying |
| 10:09.44 | stef_204 | but how can I complain when it's free.....? ;) |
| 10:10.02 | jacekowski | yeah, quality/price is a lot better than everything else |
| 10:10.12 | stef_204 | jacekowski: yep |
| 10:10.13 | jacekowski | but quality itself is just poor |
| 10:10.24 | jacekowski | but well, you get what you've paid for |
| 10:10.26 | stef_204 | jacekowski: that's a bit harsh, IMHO |
| 10:11.08 | jacekowski | well, i remember staroffice |
| 10:11.08 | stef_204 | what do oyu guys recomment for MS Office documents (that is free) for the n900? FreOffice? |
| 10:11.10 | jacekowski | from sun |
| 10:11.25 | jacekowski | and then opensource version of it openoffice |
| 10:12.00 | jacekowski | and i don't think it was improved a lot since when it was opensourced by sun |
| 10:12.40 | johnx | jacekowski, well, we can be sure the period at sun will look like a high point compared to oracle ... |
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| 10:12.59 | stef_204 | I keep having to reboot into Windows from Linux when I have to do some serious editing on a Client PowerPoint where a few of us are working on same presentation |
| 10:13.38 | psycho_oreos | you could run windows in virtual machines env |
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| 10:13.47 | jacekowski | what's the point |
| 10:13.53 | jacekowski | if you can run native windows faster |
| 10:14.21 | stef_204 | psycho_oreos: I'd love to but I am not sure I have the space on my HDD. would mean I wd have to can the actual Windows install and use the freed-up space for the VM |
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| 10:15.08 | stef_204 | I tried to VMware Windows converter once and didn't work out that great--super slow but must have been becasue I was running VM on a network drive |
| 10:15.38 | psycho_oreos | the point is that you won't need to reboot/dual boot if you have windows under virtualised environment, and the performance is quite minimal unless you're doing multitasking under both OS :p |
| 10:15.44 | DocScrutinizer | moo jacekowski |
| 10:15.52 | jacekowski | boo |
| 10:15.56 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that charging |
| 10:16.24 | psycho_oreos | stef_204, hard drives aren't expensive these days lol |
| 10:16.32 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's using very safe values |
| 10:17.01 | stef_204 | psycho_oreos: I know and I agree, but canning my actual windows install is a big step since I use high end applications that only run on windows so not sure I have the mettle to mess with that and be stuck....we'll see |
| 10:17.05 | DocScrutinizer | eh? which one now? bme? hw default? jrbme scripts? |
| 10:17.09 | jacekowski | nolo |
| 10:17.16 | DocScrutinizer | nolo!! |
| 10:17.20 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 10:17.41 | jacekowski | so it looks like nolo was supposed to be able to charge dead phone to level when it's bootable |
| 10:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, engineers are conservative, or dead :-P |
| 10:17.57 | jacekowski | i mean, fully bootable |
| 10:18.01 | jacekowski | but something went wrong |
| 10:18.11 | DocScrutinizer | ohh? |
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| 10:18.26 | psycho_oreos | stef_204, I didn't say you have to can windows completely you can convert that windows install into virtualised environment to save you from installing windows and configurating it all again |
| 10:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | did tests yesterday, everything went fine |
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| 10:19.05 | DocScrutinizer | hw recovery charge til 3.0, nolo charge til 3.3, then normal act_dead |
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| 10:19.28 | jacekowski | is 3.3V enough to boot a phone? |
| 10:19.43 | DocScrutinizer | did this like 4 times in a row (discharging cell was the most pain) |
| 10:19.43 | stef_204 | psycho_oreos: that's what I had done before except wasn't a good experience because, since I had no space available on my HDD for the VM, I stuck it into a network drive and tried to run the converted install from there. To say it was slow is the understatement of the year |
| 10:20.10 | MohammadAG51 | Jaffa, just a bit, doing some physics hw |
| 10:20.36 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: given NOLO is software running on the phone, it seems 3.0 is enough to start up the hw |
| 10:20.52 | jacekowski | well, but charging is stopped |
| 10:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | who's doing that?? |
| 10:21.12 | jacekowski | bme |
| 10:21.15 | DocScrutinizer | here nobody stopped charging |
| 10:21.24 | jacekowski | bme stops charging on startup |
| 10:21.28 | psycho_oreos | stef_204, which comes back to the point of actually buying portable hard disks.. you'll only need it to migrate windows into virtualised environment, once you're satisfied, you can get rid of the proper windows install and run windows from virtualisation.. either that or upgrade your network setup, it sounds like you are still using something like 100Mbit connection :) |
| 10:21.30 | jacekowski | checks usb connector |
| 10:21.31 | DocScrutinizer | except NOLO when un 'u' mode |
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| 10:21.46 | jacekowski | and then starts charging again |
| 10:21.54 | DocScrutinizer | that may be correct |
| 10:21.58 | jacekowski | so you have couple ms |
| 10:22.03 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 10:22.15 | jacekowski | which could be enough to make phone shutdown |
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| 10:22.28 | DocScrutinizer | ...which might be enough to tear down system on a crappy weak cell |
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| 10:22.49 | johnx | psycho_oreos, heh. I was until a couple months ago :P |
| 10:23.13 | johnx | not everyone has a huge hardware budget just becase they have an N900 ... |
| 10:23.38 | psycho_oreos | johnx, doesn't mean you have to be, just need to think outside the box for a moment or two :) |
| 10:23.41 | *** part/#maemo trem (~trem@81.57.136.23) |
| 10:23.42 | stef_204 | psycho_oreos: I guess you are right theoretically--it's when I go to practical or implementation phase that things get bogged down--which is my fault as I haven't set aside enouth time to really do a good job on that whole conversion |
| 10:24.07 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: obviously a cell with a Z to cause a voltage drop of 0.3+ on maybe 500mA is to be considered dead |
| 10:24.22 | psycho_oreos | stef_204, its just a thought, rather than having to dualboot, which creates some small downtime and a little inconvenience |
| 10:24.41 | psycho_oreos | johnx, speaking of which I'm still using the age old 10/100Mbit switch, so I'm not that rich either :p |
| 10:25.17 | stef_204 | psycho_oreos: absolutely, I totally agree. and I have wanted to do it for quite some time. But I got cold feet when the converted windows ran so slowly and didn't explore further for lack of time |
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| 10:25.22 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, i was using bench power supply to run my phone |
| 10:25.35 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and it required well over 1A |
| 10:25.51 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: also you battery contacts etc have to be good condition (clean, low Z) |
| 10:26.04 | jacekowski | yeah, but that's gold plated |
| 10:26.04 | DocScrutinizer | WUT??? |
| 10:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | over 1000mA??? |
| 10:26.15 | jacekowski | yep |
| 10:26.17 | jacekowski | on boot |
| 10:26.21 | DocScrutinizer | FFS!! |
| 10:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | what the hell is going on there? |
| 10:26.54 | jacekowski | rapuyama starts on full speed |
| 10:26.57 | jacekowski | omap starts |
| 10:27.04 | jacekowski | with everything running on full speed |
| 10:27.05 | DocScrutinizer | during transition from NOLO to act_dead? |
| 10:27.12 | jacekowski | backlight on full brightness |
| 10:27.22 | jacekowski | no, dead -> nolo |
| 10:27.32 | psycho_oreos | stef_204, it sorta pays to have a nice working setup where possible, but look whos talking, I don't have my windows machine for gaming and its sitting right next to me with no OS, with no proper SATA cable, etc :) |
| 10:27.32 | DocScrutinizer | that's really bad |
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| 10:27.57 | stef_204 | psycho_oreos: yeah, aren't we all the same.... :) |
| 10:28.08 | DocScrutinizer | esp since there seems to be little to no hysteresis in twl4030 VDD_ok detection |
| 10:28.36 | jacekowski | that could explain some reboot loops |
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| 10:28.47 | psycho_oreos | stef_204, heh, the dilemma which I guess most or all of us share :) too little time too much projects floating around |
| 10:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: but "backlight full brightness" on NOLO start?? |
| 10:29.03 | jacekowski | yeah, i'm not sure about that |
| 10:29.12 | johnx | psycho_oreos, then we end up on IRC, using up the little time we have. heh :) |
| 10:29.14 | jacekowski | but that's probably default |
| 10:29.18 | DocScrutinizer | I am. there is no backlight with NOLO |
| 10:29.27 | stef_204 | jacekowski: obsolutely |
| 10:29.27 | jacekowski | at least it looks like it boots on full brightness |
| 10:29.34 | stef_204 | *absolutely ;) |
| 10:29.40 | jacekowski | try to switch it off and on |
| 10:29.42 | *** join/#maemo sivang (~sivang@unaffiliated/sivang) |
| 10:29.45 | sivang | hi all |
| 10:29.57 | sivang | Is the radio part of the media player in Maemo open source? |
| 10:29.57 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 10:30.00 | psycho_oreos | johnx, I consider IRC as a way to make us look more sociable and a way to get out of project hell hole that spins around and round :) |
| 10:30.02 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: system boot or hw boot |
| 10:30.03 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 10:30.09 | jacekowski | hw boot |
| 10:30.09 | sivang | I want to create an interenet radio app |
| 10:30.15 | DocScrutinizer | we need to define a few more clear terms, it seems |
| 10:30.21 | sivang | for only for internet radio, nothing else. |
| 10:30.32 | DocScrutinizer | hw boot does NOT enable backlight |
| 10:31.11 | johnx | psycho_oreos, I consider it the thing I mean to look at only while waiting for file transfers and stuff that has to do with my actual project |
| 10:31.25 | DocScrutinizer | you get "NOLO" on a unlit screen, and charging starts (yellow flashing) |
| 10:31.26 | johnx | then i end up forgetting about that stuff and suddenly it's 3:30AM |
| 10:31.53 | psycho_oreos | heh its always the case :) |
| 10:32.00 | *** join/#maemo kontio (~kontio@unaffiliated/kontio) |
| 10:32.55 | DocScrutinizer | IRC has eaten my days and spoiled my life :-P |
| 10:33.22 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 10:33.27 | jacekowski | when was charger connected? |
| 10:33.47 | jacekowski | ok, dead phone with no battery |
| 10:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ?? |
| 10:34.33 | jacekowski | ok, now pull out a battery |
| 10:34.40 | jacekowski | and put it back in |
| 10:34.46 | jacekowski | press power on button |
| 10:35.00 | jacekowski | lcd comes on with NOKIA logo and lcd on full brightness |
| 10:35.01 | *** join/#maemo __a|[albsk] (~albert@c-5e4c72d5.06-180-6e6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 10:35.14 | DocScrutinizer | that's already system boot |
| 10:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | on <3.3 it's supposed to shut down in less than 5s |
| 10:36.02 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 10:36.07 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@80-218-11-57.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | triggered by bme |
| 10:36.32 | DocScrutinizer | without bme it shuts down hard on 3.0 |
| 10:36.36 | Stskeeps | power on button != system |
| 10:36.38 | jacekowski | hmm, take a look at |
| 10:36.41 | jacekowski | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking/serial_dump |
| 10:36.48 | jacekowski | [ 0.333] Ãber-cool backlight fade-in took 9 ms |
| 10:37.09 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: that's actually weird |
| 10:37.35 | DocScrutinizer | I don't see backlite on NOLO running |
| 10:37.42 | vanadismobile | hai |
| 10:37.53 | jacekowski | hmm, different hw version |
| 10:37.57 | jacekowski | different lcd? |
| 10:38.01 | DocScrutinizer | maybe NOLO does this just before loading system kernel |
| 10:38.13 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: 3.3? |
| 10:38.15 | vanadismobile | is it possible to put a file on the desktop like a shortcut? |
| 10:38.19 | jacekowski | there are at least 4 lcd types that nolo supports |
| 10:38.21 | alterego | christ, for a 10Mbit connection this is going damn slow. |
| 10:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: 42? |
| 10:38.29 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 10:38.30 | jacekowski | do you have same lcd as i do@? |
| 10:38.38 | kontio | hi maemo testers, new version of querymee is in extras testing, please start testing and if OK vote: http://bit.ly/cxreVB |
| 10:38.40 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I bet I do |
| 10:39.09 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: also the type of LCD is largely irrelevant, as it is at very end of control chain |
| 10:39.14 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (~fnoridans@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 10:39.29 | jacekowski | well, it may be just defaults of lcd that decide on backlight status |
| 10:39.37 | jacekowski | as nolo may be not touching it at all |
| 10:39.51 | jacekowski | but then, why is that message on console |
| 10:40.06 | DocScrutinizer | no idea |
| 10:40.34 | DocScrutinizer | as said above it may be a function of NOLO done the very moment it loads kernel |
| 10:40.36 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: you said something about 3.0 and 3.3, what were these? |
| 10:40.46 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 10:40.47 | jacekowski | dmesg | grep LCD |
| 10:40.53 | *** join/#maemo MSameerWork (~mohammed@a91-156-70-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:41.12 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: 3.0V is hw bootup threshold. 3.3V is NOLO boot system threshold |
| 10:41.27 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: what does it say on yours? |
| 10:41.31 | jacekowski | acx565akm |
| 10:41.32 | jacekowski | ? |
| 10:41.44 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: good to know |
| 10:41.51 | DocScrutinizer | and also 3.3V seems bme gracefull system shutdown, while 3.0 is hw brute force shutdown |
| 10:42.04 | sivang | so no fs flushout? |
| 10:42.14 | sivang | with 3> |
| 10:42.19 | DocScrutinizer | on hw shutdown? dunno |
| 10:42.53 | Stskeeps | very brute shutdown |
| 10:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | I'd think twl4030 still signals kernel about pending hard shutdown in 5s or sth |
| 10:43.16 | sivang | tries to install acceleromymote |
| 10:43.24 | sivang | or wahtever its spelled :) |
| 10:43.25 | jacekowski | all shutdowns go trough mce |
| 10:43.28 | jacekowski | hjmm, not mce |
| 10:43.34 | jacekowski | that other thing |
| 10:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | dsme? |
| 10:43.42 | jacekowski | yes |
| 10:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 10:43.50 | jacekowski | and start timer |
| 10:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | except maybe hw 3.0 shutdown |
| 10:44.24 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:44.28 | jacekowski | well, bme should signal shutdown before that |
| 10:44.43 | jacekowski | so it should never get to 3V shutdown |
| 10:45.54 | DocScrutinizer | twl4030 rises an IRQ, then shuts down hw. I guess. The IRQ "IRQ_PWRFAULT" should cause kernel to immediately stop sheduling (freeze all processes), do a sync, and prepare for doom |
| 10:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yes, exactly. bme *does* shutdown of system 0b 3.3 |
| 10:46.33 | DocScrutinizer | s/0b/on |
| 10:47.16 | jacekowski | btw. i was thinking about external battery charger |
| 10:47.20 | *** join/#maemo ilius (~ilius@unaffiliated/ilius) |
| 10:47.25 | *** join/#maemo ilius1 (~ilius@94.101.182.238) |
| 10:47.25 | jacekowski | like 4x1.5V battery |
| 10:47.45 | jacekowski | do you know if anybody tried 6V on that port |
| 10:48.02 | DocScrutinizer | but you can stop bme, or repeatedly poweron system, which will run with backlight and all for some few seconds each time, or keep nolo in 'u', and you'll reach 3.0 hard shutdown |
| 10:48.24 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: (6V) no idea |
| 10:48.33 | jacekowski | bq24150 can do 25V |
| 10:48.48 | DocScrutinizer | no, it can *survive* 25V |
| 10:49.16 | jacekowski | yeah, i would expect it to operate at 6V |
| 10:49.29 | DocScrutinizer | though there's more than just bq24150 on VBUS |
| 10:49.29 | jacekowski | i'm not sure about melting other stuff that's connected to vbus |
| 10:49.43 | alterego | Strange, look s like my dads vista machine blocks ssh out :/ |
| 10:50.23 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:51.41 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 10:51.58 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: :-D |
| 10:54.42 | *** join/#maemo |BIT| (~BIT@92.255.242.249) |
| 10:56.29 | *** join/#maemo NGNUton-B (~gnuton@cs181167085.pp.htv.fi) |
| 10:57.52 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 10:58.40 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B_ (~csb@78.147.230.151) |
| 10:59.58 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: well, 6V might be OK (don't quote me on that) |
| 11:01.43 | DocScrutinizer | but odds are bq24150 will rise an error flag, and bme is stopping charging. I'd at very least use a LD-regulator to 5V |
| 11:03.02 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~choppa@p5DF50AC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:03.06 | DocScrutinizer | consideing voltage of one primary cell might be from 1.2 to 1.6, a booster and just 2 or 3 cells might serve much better anyway |
| 11:03.17 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@91.182.214.55) |
| 11:03.32 | DocScrutinizer | this concept is commonly known as mintybox charger |
| 11:04.44 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:04.48 | *** join/#maemo koffeekan (1875d85b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.117.216.91) |
| 11:04.56 | koffeekan | hello all |
| 11:05.24 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: CA-146C dongle is a convenient booster and OV protector |
| 11:05.28 | koffeekan | anyone awake? |
| 11:05.35 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 11:05.43 | koffeekan | ohai |
| 11:06.28 | koffeekan | i have a question about my n770 and gpecalendar on os2007he |
| 11:07.24 | koffeekan | all i want is a calendar to keep track of my appts on the n770 but these dependencies are driving me nutz |
| 11:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | ~ask |
| 11:07.25 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 11:07.49 | koffeekan | lol |
| 11:08.39 | koffeekan | os2007he has older versions of libsoup, libc6 etc. is it possible to update these easily? or is there another calendar app? |
| 11:11.39 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B366AC7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:12.11 | koffeekan | alternatively, is there a sound fix available for 2008he that actually works for the n770? also is it worth it to do the 48mhz speed bump and install to mmc? |
| 11:13.26 | DocScrutinizer | it's 770, the N came with N800 |
| 11:14.22 | koffeekan | :/ |
| 11:14.23 | DocScrutinizer | seems few users have working 770 nowadays |
| 11:14.50 | koffeekan | well crap |
| 11:15.17 | koffeekan | i was given this by one of my friends for help with an art installation, was nib sealed |
| 11:15.19 | alterego | god damnit this download is taking forever. |
| 11:17.06 | *** join/#maemo jayne (maddhatt@freenode/staff/jayne) |
| 11:17.14 | *** join/#maemo klasu__ (~klasu@a91-153-0-105.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:17.23 | koffeekan | welp i guess i will be using my ipod touch instead |
| 11:17.31 | *** join/#maemo cehteh (~ct@pipapo.org) |
| 11:18.39 | DocScrutinizer | koffeekan: anyway you'll have to linger on here for a day or two, to meet someone who can answer your questions regarding 770 |
| 11:19.18 | koffeekan | ok |
| 11:21.25 | alterego | I've got a working 7u0 |
| 11:21.29 | alterego | 770 .. |
| 11:21.45 | alterego | Though it sits in a drawer doing nothing :) |
| 11:21.48 | *** join/#maemo knightstalker (~knightsta@shellium/member/KnightStalker) |
| 11:21.48 | koffeekan | lol |
| 11:22.01 | koffeekan | i just want a calendar so i could use it for an organiser |
| 11:22.02 | alterego | Right next to the N800 and the N810 |
| 11:22.04 | knightstalker | Hello,I wanted to know if I can install macchanger on my Maemo(to change mac),or is there any other ways? |
| 11:22.21 | alterego | koffeekan: google calendar? :) |
| 11:22.26 | koffeekan | and os2008he is too unstable, 2007he is a sweetspot |
| 11:22.41 | alterego | koffeekan: agreed, |
| 11:23.32 | alterego | I'm still quite suprised a 10Mbit connection is getting worse than 2Mbit speeds .. |
| 11:23.39 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 11:23.42 | koffeekan | god i just wish i could get gpe working |
| 11:23.55 | koffeekan | its so slick |
| 11:23.56 | alterego | If I knew it was going to be this slow I would have just done it at my home .. |
| 11:24.22 | alterego | I also feel slightly dirty download Windows 7 Ultimate .. |
| 11:24.34 | alterego | +/download/downloading |
| 11:24.56 | dneary | Hi |
| 11:25.04 | dneary | Jaffa, w00t: about? |
| 11:26.21 | alterego | Do we have the source to the connection manager status bar applet? |
| 11:26.41 | *** join/#maemo mc_teo`` (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) |
| 11:27.09 | Jaffa | dneary: pong |
| 11:27.16 | Stskeeps | w00t's still travelling to my knowledge |
| 11:27.19 | dneary | Jaffa, I feel terrible |
| 11:27.19 | Jaffa | dneary: w00t is on a flight, AFAICT |
| 11:27.47 | alterego | gives dneary a hug |
| 11:28.14 | DocScrutinizer | lo dneary |
| 11:28.47 | dneary | Hi all |
| 11:28.55 | dneary | alterego, Thanks |
| 11:29.07 | dneary | Jaffa, Anyway, you saw my email last night, I see |
| 11:29.08 | alterego | :) |
| 11:29.13 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 11:29.20 | Jaffa | dneary: Yup; apparently the council are in deliberations. |
| 11:29.54 | Stskeeps | meh, what's an election without scandals |
| 11:29.54 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 11:30.09 | Jaffa | zactly |
| 11:30.16 | alterego | hahah |
| 11:30.19 | dneary | Jaffa, Basically, I said "Oh, that's really serious, you'll have to be thrown out of the election. More comments below." And then below there was "Only kidding, thius seems like a minor omission. Here's what I suggest you do..." |
| 11:30.19 | DocScrutinizer | scandals? |
| 11:30.46 | dneary | Jaffa, So, uhm, victim of my own sense of humour. |
| 11:31.10 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@ppp-115-87-122-209.revip4.asianet.co.th) |
| 11:31.51 | koffeekan | ho-ly shit |
| 11:32.28 | koffeekan | i switched repository for maemo extras to bora and the install worked |
| 11:32.51 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 11:32.59 | koffeekan | it was on chinook >.< |
| 11:33.09 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@123-3-90-41.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 11:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 11:34.18 | koffeekan | oh man i am a hurf mcdurf tonight |
| 11:35.04 | defragger | where are the repositories in maemo saved? my /etc/apt/sources.list is empty |
| 11:37.01 | Jaffa | dneary: heh |
| 11:37.33 | koffeekan | anyone know of a good theme for 0s2007he on 770? |
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| 11:49.34 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-153-229-124.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 11:54.11 | RST38h | <yawn> |
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| 11:55.04 | knightstalker | Hello,I wanted to know if I can install macchanger on my Maemo(to change mac),or is there any other ways? |
| 11:55.24 | tank-man | sounds evil :) |
| 11:56.20 | defragger | what package contains sdl-config? |
| 11:56.23 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@178.2.219.114) |
| 11:56.29 | knightstalker | tank-man? |
| 11:57.52 | tank-man | knightstalker, not many legit reasons to change mac address |
| 11:58.05 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-238-107.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 11:58.34 | knightstalker | tank-man,I assume auditing security/security tests are legal |
| 11:58.39 | *** join/#maemo rcg1 (~rcg@f051226024.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:59.52 | tank-man | i havent done it but it is possible from the forum topics ive seen |
| 12:00.00 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-24-10-116-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:00.04 | *** join/#maemo hwoarang (~hwoarang@gentoo/developer/hwoarang) |
| 12:00.32 | knightstalker | Okay,I'll search Soon! :P |
| 12:01.26 | MohammadAG | does anyone have a link to the guy who replaced the N900's port with a mini USB one? |
| 12:01.29 | MohammadAG | Jaffa back :) |
| 12:02.22 | *** join/#maemo sleipnir (~sleipnir@p4FDD11CE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 12:03.02 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus_ (~rodarvus@187.112.66.45) |
| 12:03.11 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: 'lo. Just about to eat :) |
| 12:03.15 | SpeedEvil | why not replace it with the right part? |
| 12:03.24 | MohammadAG | Jaffa heh, kk |
| 12:05.55 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:07.09 | *** join/#maemo bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
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| 12:12.02 | *** join/#maemo famicom (~famicom@h1606120.stratoserver.net) |
| 12:13.21 | famicom | Hi, i got my n900 running meamo 5 3 days ago |
| 12:13.51 | famicom | I love it, but i wanna know a little bit more before i start pulling apart the meamo platform |
| 12:13.54 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:14.05 | *** join/#maemo sandstorm (~as@85.110.148.186) |
| 12:14.42 | famicom | Can i seperate my personal/professional workflows |
| 12:15.03 | famicom | right now, i have personal and business conversations in SMS/IM mixed with eachother |
| 12:16.24 | famicom | also, on my HTC Touch Pro 2, there was this syncing service "Microsoft MyPhone" which allowed me to sync notes, sms messages, phonenumbers, photos, media, etc etc over HDSPA/G3 to a remote webservice |
| 12:16.34 | famicom | is something similar possible with the Meamo platform |
| 12:19.02 | *** join/#maemo sandstorm (~as@85.110.148.186) |
| 12:20.58 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
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| 12:22.59 | sandstorm | is there any good compilation of N900 tweaks in terms of performance and battery life on a single thread or site? thanks for help. |
| 12:23.10 | sandstorm | an upto date if available. |
| 12:23.42 | dneary | sandstorm, There's a wiki page |
| 12:23.48 | dneary | But honestly the advice there isn't great |
| 12:23.49 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 12:23.55 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management |
| 12:24.06 | dneary | But I'm not really able to improve on it |
| 12:24.06 | SpeedEvil | It's not user friendly though. |
| 12:24.21 | SpeedEvil | I need to polish it and get it nice, but life is getting in the way |
| 12:24.24 | SpeedEvil | Basically. |
| 12:24.59 | MohammadAG | Qt Creator is a bit hard to use |
| 12:25.06 | SpeedEvil | Don't use screen at max brightness unless you can avoid it. Don't use anything that polls over 3G, don't use skype ever. |
| 12:25.38 | jpinx | SpeedEvil: I'll drink to that - skype EATS battery and bandwidth |
| 12:25.59 | sandstorm | hmm |
| 12:26.04 | kerio | omnomnomnom |
| 12:26.14 | sandstorm | I didnt even enabled 3g from my gsm provider |
| 12:26.20 | sandstorm | I knew it drains battery much |
| 12:26.31 | kerio | nah, any kind of active data connection does that |
| 12:26.36 | sandstorm | its automatically on 2.5g, do you suggest me to enforce it to 2g ? |
| 12:27.04 | sandstorm | if there is no active data flow, 3g is harmless ? |
| 12:27.24 | sandstorm | instead of telecomunnications data packets of course. |
| 12:27.26 | kerio | an active, idle 3g connection is hardly measurable |
| 12:28.05 | sandstorm | lets assume I talk to my friend 10 minutes, will there be difference in battery drainage between 2g and 3g ? |
| 12:28.27 | jpinx | sandstorm: not sure about "idle" in 3g, but these connections are always pinging and generally keeping themselves alive, so there will always be usage |
| 12:28.47 | sandstorm | that's what I was thinking as well |
| 12:28.58 | sandstorm | so that if I dont need 3g why to enable it. |
| 12:29.16 | sandstorm | I only use internet via wifi |
| 12:29.33 | sandstorm | but what about 2.5g and 2g |
| 12:29.43 | jpinx | sandstorm: all the connections use a lot of power - wifi too |
| 12:29.43 | famicom | here's something i find interesting |
| 12:29.46 | kerio | jpinx: nah, idle connection (with no data) are really low on battery usage |
| 12:29.49 | sandstorm | I wonder if I should enforce 2g with the network switcher application |
| 12:30.00 | sandstorm | I know but I cant avoid wifi at some point |
| 12:30.08 | sandstorm | I dont use it constantly though |
| 12:30.21 | famicom | on my touch pro 2 running windows mobile 6.5, i could use mobile internet and mobile IM all day long and the battery would be fine |
| 12:30.36 | famicom | with the n900 it's drained before i even get back from whatever it is i'm doing outside |
| 12:30.40 | jpinx | wonders why someone would want a mobile to be *alwys* online |
| 12:30.47 | famicom | jpinx work |
| 12:31.07 | Corsac | or just have a jabber connection always on |
| 12:31.19 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (~bilboed@89.129.130.220) |
| 12:31.23 | famicom | that too |
| 12:31.39 | sandstorm | no ideas on 2.5g and 2g ? |
| 12:32.14 | famicom | jpinx is there a way to kill off connections |
| 12:32.34 | sandstorm | other question is, if I disable some of the 4 desktops, would it make a significant sense in terms of battery? |
| 12:32.52 | famicom | i mean, even if i adjust my own usage behavior, it would be nice if i can get apps acting rude eating power to play nice |
| 12:33.00 | jpinx | famicom: sure |
| 12:33.32 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se) |
| 12:33.44 | jpinx | sandstorm: use the switch to put the screen off, don't wait for the timeout |
| 12:33.57 | sandstorm | I didnt mean that |
| 12:34.06 | jpinx | turn the volume down |
| 12:34.08 | sandstorm | as default we get 4 desktops on hildon |
| 12:34.15 | sandstorm | I only use 3 or 2 of them |
| 12:34.24 | jpinx | we do? |
| 12:34.34 | sandstorm | I do at least |
| 12:34.36 | jpinx | I have never bothered with those |
| 12:34.40 | famicom | ugh, using applications written by others at times is like having to take care of another parent's kid, "I don't care what your parent allows you to do, in my house (computer) you follow my rules!" |
| 12:34.45 | jpinx | who's hildon? |
| 12:34.50 | famicom | it's an app |
| 12:34.51 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~George@196.221.182.241) |
| 12:34.58 | famicom | well not an app |
| 12:35.05 | famicom | but a collection of apps for a desktop environment |
| 12:35.05 | sandstorm | the original hildon |
| 12:35.10 | sandstorm | not mohammad's |
| 12:35.18 | famicom | peace be upon him |
| 12:36.03 | jpinx | tbh there's too much "dressing" and not enough functionality for my taste |
| 12:36.21 | jpinx | there isn't even a decent calendar |
| 12:36.29 | famicom | write one |
| 12:36.54 | famicom | the platform is completely open, if you don't like something, fix it |
| 12:37.16 | jpinx | I have better things to do ;) so I install a chroot and install what I *really* need there ;) |
| 12:37.29 | famicom | there we go :) |
| 12:38.08 | sandstorm | what is missing in calendar at your point of view? |
| 12:38.13 | Jartza | not everybody can fix things |
| 12:38.21 | jpinx | sandstorm: try scrolling one week at a time |
| 12:38.22 | SpeedEvil | sandstorm: killing off the desktops should have almost no effect |
| 12:38.32 | sandstorm | hmm |
| 12:38.50 | jpinx | sandstorm: try making a note for a day and seeing it in the monthly view |
| 12:39.00 | Corsac | sandstorm: multiple syncable calendars |
| 12:39.20 | sandstorm | SpeedEvil: allright then, eliminated that, thanks for info |
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| 12:39.45 | SpeedEvil | sandstorm: what sort of battery life are you seeing? |
| 12:39.52 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 12:40.03 | famicom | Jartza true, but those people should either learn to fix it, or they should provide clear instructions for those who can fix it what they should fix |
| 12:40.06 | SpeedEvil | Also - make sure your AP is power-saving proprly if using wifi |
| 12:40.12 | jpinx | gets a day with "medium" usage |
| 12:40.24 | SpeedEvil | famicom: Providing clear instructions takes time. |
| 12:40.42 | sandstorm | SpeedEvil: not a too bad one, but if I have the chance, I will try to improve it and the performance. the visuals are not the top priority for me. performance and battery life are. I got like 2 days average of battery life. |
| 12:40.45 | SpeedEvil | famicom: And can be disheartening if you do it several times and nothing happens |
| 12:41.00 | famicom | if it doesn't work, it means you need to try something different, and try again |
| 12:41.07 | Jartza | famicom: I agree to some point. but personally I also appreciate just input from users, even in form "I just don't like it". |
| 12:41.08 | SpeedEvil | 2 days is generally fairly good, unless it's idle. |
| 12:41.19 | SpeedEvil | I've gotten up to around 8 with it all-but idle. |
| 12:41.23 | famicom | Jartza, this is true :) |
| 12:41.34 | sandstorm | a noobish question, is the code of Nokia's calendar open source? |
| 12:41.48 | famicom | what i hate is people with a sense of entitlement (I USE YOUR STUFF, THEREFORE YOU MUST TREAT ME LIKE A KING) |
| 12:41.51 | SpeedEvil | sandstorm: No. It's an awesome bitr of nokia IP. |
| 12:42.09 | jpinx | well - if someone owns up to writing the calendar I can provide polite and constructive critique ;) |
| 12:42.37 | Jartza | famicom: well, in traditional world the customer should be the king :) |
| 12:42.59 | famicom | not really, only if you pay for it |
| 12:43.02 | Jartza | of course, open source changes things, especially if the customer isn't a paying one |
| 12:43.09 | jpinx | but I know some of the guys who put their souls into the software are a bit toucht |
| 12:43.12 | jpinx | touchy |
| 12:43.16 | SpeedEvil | I have no problem with the customer being king. If he lends me a handmaiden or two, he gets _much_ better service. |
| 12:43.20 | famicom | price = cost of resources + value of time + value of expertise |
| 12:43.33 | famicom | exactly :) |
| 12:43.41 | SpeedEvil | Semi-seriously - random RL stuff is taking _way_ too much of my energy. |
| 12:43.42 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-76-170-247-154.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 12:43.56 | jpinx | RL stuff ? |
| 12:44.00 | SpeedEvil | Real Life. |
| 12:44.10 | Jartza | unfortunately joe avderage-user just buys a phone, installs software and doesn't care where the software came from :P |
| 12:44.12 | SpeedEvil | It's what happens when you step away from the computer. |
| 12:44.21 | jpinx | ah - it's random computer stuff that gets in my way :) |
| 12:44.52 | jpinx | like having to find a calender that works ;) |
| 12:44.57 | Jartza | and joe average still thinks hes a paying customer |
| 12:45.19 | famicom | and joe average can go fuck himself |
| 12:45.24 | sandstorm | :O |
| 12:45.36 | jpinx | jpe average did pay - he paid nokia |
| 12:45.40 | SpeedEvil | It would be awesome if the company would allocate .1% of the purchase price to bugfixes. |
| 12:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~RL |
| 12:45.43 | infobot | well, rl is Real Life (the bad world out there), or known as the Big Blue Box (tm). Conways game using only rational numbers |
| 12:45.53 | Jartza | famicom: they sometimes do. and buy an iphone/android :) |
| 12:45.57 | SpeedEvil | And there was some way to aggregate consumer wants on bugfixes. |
| 12:46.02 | famicom | customers are like misbehaving children, it's bad behavior and needs to be corrected |
| 12:46.31 | famicom | SpeedEvil there is |
| 12:46.52 | Jartza | I don't think it's customers fault that they have application manager in phone they bought |
| 12:47.02 | jpinx | I have a girlfriend with an iphone, and the n900 is much better in many ways, but is let down by details |
| 12:47.52 | famicom | probably |
| 12:47.55 | Jartza | but... off to cooking :) |
| 12:48.02 | famicom | but if the overall experience is better, it's a better product |
| 12:48.04 | famicom | clear and simple |
| 12:48.06 | jpinx | I have never Ãless than 6 apps running at thesame time - and ofen many more |
| 12:48.13 | sandstorm | I can't see userlist on xchat, anyone experiencing that? |
| 12:48.33 | jpinx | uses irssi |
| 12:48.35 | MohammadAG51 | enable it? |
| 12:48.36 | SpeedEvil | sandstorm: yes |
| 12:48.42 | SpeedEvil | sandstorm: you need tot urn it on. |
| 12:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | sandstorm: F7 - err, menu-view-userlist |
| 12:48.56 | sandstorm | SpeedEvil: the problem is, its already turned on :O |
| 12:49.01 | SpeedEvil | Top menu -> xchat -> view userlist |
| 12:49.02 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 12:49.22 | DocScrutinizer | sandstorm: then try pulling right border to the center of screen |
| 12:49.38 | *** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 12:49.40 | sandstorm | I see a little border |
| 12:49.42 | sandstorm | on the left |
| 12:49.44 | sandstorm | when I turn it on |
| 12:49.46 | DocScrutinizer | it's sized to zero width |
| 12:49.47 | SpeedEvil | actually |
| 12:49.48 | sandstorm | but dunno how to drag it |
| 12:49.49 | SpeedEvil | top-window |
| 12:49.54 | SpeedEvil | then view |
| 12:49.56 | SpeedEvil | then userlist |
| 12:49.58 | SpeedEvil | to toggle |
| 12:50.21 | *** join/#maemo sandstorm|mobile (~user@85.110.148.186) |
| 12:50.26 | sandstorm | letme test |
| 12:50.32 | DocScrutinizer | or change the related numeric value in .xchat/xchat.conf |
| 12:51.03 | sandstorm | userlist already got the check besides it |
| 12:51.06 | sandstorm | I see a border on left |
| 12:51.09 | sandstorm | but cant expand it |
| 12:51.11 | sandstorm | hmm |
| 12:51.24 | *** join/#maemo bleeter_ (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 12:51.34 | sandstorm | dont know how it got zeroed in size |
| 12:51.42 | sandstorm | by itself |
| 12:52.38 | SpeedEvil | oh - right - I thought you wanted it off |
| 12:53.01 | SpeedEvil | drag the bar on the very right of the screen to expand it |
| 12:53.16 | sandstorm|mobile | finally i could expand it by trying to drag it with stylus |
| 12:53.37 | DocScrutinizer | gui_pane_left_size = 111; gui_pane_right_size = 494;gui_ulist_hide = 1 gui_ulist_left = 0 gui_ulist_pos = 3 gui_ulist_resizable = 1 gui_ulist_show_hosts = 0 gui_ulist_sort = 0 gui_ulist_style = 0 |
| 12:53.45 | sandstorm|mobile | but it was not so easy letme say |
| 12:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | in /home/user/.xchat2/xchat.conf |
| 12:54.16 | DocScrutinizer | oh, you managed to drag it :-) |
| 12:54.19 | sandstorm|mobile | tyvm for that internal info |
| 12:54.39 | sandstorm|mobile | yes it was challenging :p |
| 12:55.39 | sandstorm|mobile | hmm i wonder if i can align it to right |
| 12:55.55 | DocScrutinizer | (how it got zeroed in size) think it comes with defaults set up like that :-/ |
| 12:56.12 | sandstorm|mobile | ah what a bad default setup |
| 12:56.18 | DocScrutinizer | (right) I have, there's a setting in prefs |
| 12:56.29 | sandstorm|mobile | uilist pos? |
| 12:56.34 | DocScrutinizer | prolly |
| 12:56.52 | sandstorm|mobile | letme see the prefs first |
| 12:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | cya |
| 12:57.06 | sandstorm | thanks alot |
| 12:57.08 | sandstorm | see you |
| 12:57.35 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (~hannes@80-121-110-88.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 13:02.29 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@87-93-42-101.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
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| 13:14.11 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 13:14.11 | MohammadAG | lurks in #ubuntu |
| 13:14.19 | MohammadAG | it's hostile towards new users |
| 13:14.31 | *** join/#maemo plq (~plq@88.249.173.198) |
| 13:14.51 | lcuk | MohammadAG, its not |
| 13:15.09 | lcuk | but on busy chans its easy for a new user to get drowned out |
| 13:15.24 | lcuk | whenever I am around places like that I look for the little voice and try to respond to them |
| 13:15.26 | MohammadAG | I'm not talking about myself |
| 13:15.38 | MohammadAG | I'm just looking at replies |
| 13:15.47 | MohammadAG | I like the bot though |
| 13:15.52 | lcuk | yeah i idle there myself sometimes |
| 13:16.17 | jpinx | which bot? I think there's several |
| 13:16.36 | MohammadAG | ubotto |
| 13:16.47 | lcuk | lurks in #liqbase |
| 13:17.16 | sivang | MohammadAG: it is? :) |
| 13:17.27 | visz | lots of rtfm? |
| 13:17.35 | MohammadAG | sometimes that's needed |
| 13:17.40 | MohammadAG | ~debian visz |
| 13:17.40 | infobot | ACTION tells visz to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! |
| 13:17.46 | visz | =) |
| 13:18.07 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08A51D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:18.23 | jpinx | :) |
| 13:18.50 | MohammadAG | Upgrading to 10.10, I'm gonna regret this |
| 13:19.00 | sandstorm | :O |
| 13:19.08 | MohammadAG | the Nokia SDK is nice, the Qt Creator it includes it better than the one in the ubuntu repos |
| 13:19.11 | visz | if it's not broken... |
| 13:19.15 | jpinx | passes MohammadAG the root... |
| 13:19.28 | MohammadAG | visz, break it? |
| 13:19.36 | visz | don't upgrade it |
| 13:19.43 | sivang | MohammadAG: you will, I heard it is a pain on some gfx chipsets/board chipset combinations |
| 13:20.09 | lcuk | MohammadAG, then who deals with buntu integration of those components? |
| 13:20.10 | MohammadAG | crap, proprietary NVidia here |
| 13:20.11 | lcuk | u |
| 13:20.17 | MohammadAG | lcuk, not sure |
| 13:20.38 | visz | don't use gnome on my ubuntu netbook remix laptop, but what i've heard the 10.10 makes things worse |
| 13:20.49 | MohammadAG | Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> |
| 13:20.52 | lcuk | getting the latest nokia sdk and qt creator onto ubuntu or preferably meego would be good :P |
| 13:20.54 | sivang | lcuk: there's the ubunut-x ml, but it is not for bug reports or user support, it said launchpad is the address for that these days |
| 13:21.02 | sivang | lcuk: that is VERY easy |
| 13:21.05 | MohammadAG | It doesn't have the Symbian emu though |
| 13:21.07 | MohammadAG | for some reason |
| 13:21.17 | lcuk | sivang, then follow it up? |
| 13:21.22 | sivang | MohammadAG: you have to get the "mobile" sdk |
| 13:21.23 | lcuk | i bet there will be more niggles |
| 13:21.39 | MohammadAG | sivang, i think it's the mobile one |
| 13:21.50 | MohammadAG | has a Maemo emu, but I think the symbian one is for Windows only |
| 13:21.55 | visz | ah, found the appropriate quote: http://bash.org/?152037 |
| 13:22.10 | sivang | lcuk: I just downloaded and installed, and Maemo and Symbian emu works fine on a non VT netbook |
| 13:22.19 | sivang | lcuk: using 9.04 I think |
| 13:22.26 | lcuk | visz, "non VT" means nothing |
| 13:22.42 | sivang | note it is just emulation |
| 13:22.48 | visz | huh? |
| 13:22.48 | lcuk | meh |
| 13:22.56 | visz | oh |
| 13:22.58 | lcuk | MohammadAG, i fiddled with liqflow on my laptop |
| 13:23.07 | lcuk | did a flow with 50k particles |
| 13:23.17 | lcuk | it was happy and fully flowing at 25k though |
| 13:23.24 | MohammadAG | lcuk, got a deb? |
| 13:23.43 | lcuk | libliqbase builds happily as does liqbase playground |
| 13:23.47 | lcuk | you had them yourself |
| 13:23.51 | MohammadAG | not on X64 :P |
| 13:23.55 | lcuk | :) |
| 13:23.59 | lcuk | i am using 32b |
| 13:24.09 | MohammadAG | my tablet was x86 |
| 13:24.15 | sivang | MohammadAG: ah, you are right I confused with windows, Symbian tooling is available only on Windows |
| 13:24.19 | lcuk | the x64 stuff was on fellow collaboran spyros computer |
| 13:24.27 | lcuk | he can send me a patch if he gets it working :P |
| 13:24.41 | MohammadAG | I'm looking at C++/Qt atm |
| 13:24.52 | MohammadAG | it looks sorta confusing, coming from python :P |
| 13:25.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | lo mo |
| 13:25.17 | MohammadAG | I'm looking at sources, are .h files auto generated or something? |
| 13:25.26 | MohammadAG | or do I just c&p all void lines into one |
| 13:25.47 | mkpaa | back to questions... what is the easiest way to boot n810 from external memory card? is custom initfs the only way? |
| 13:25.55 | lcuk | MohammadAG, "ntpd -s" |
| 13:26.07 | lcuk | i have to run this after connecting to my network |
| 13:26.14 | MohammadAG | reads visz's quote |
| 13:26.14 | sivang | MohammadAG: you have any knowledge of C++? |
| 13:26.18 | lcuk | to reset clock after removing battery |
| 13:26.19 | MohammadAG | linux is gay, what is ntpd :P |
| 13:26.20 | MohammadAG | jk |
| 13:26.26 | MohammadAG | sivang, not really |
| 13:26.26 | lcuk | it doesnt appear to run when the network connects |
| 13:26.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: .h aren't autogenerated, except for some qt stuff iirc |
| 13:26.34 | MohammadAG | this is Qt |
| 13:26.36 | lcuk | network time daemon |
| 13:26.47 | MohammadAG | lcuk, I asked for that? |
| 13:26.49 | lcuk | and even when I run it from console, it changes time |
| 13:26.50 | sivang | MohammadAG: .h files are like the "interface declerations" |
| 13:26.56 | lcuk | but the clock widget in top left |
| 13:27.01 | lcuk | doesnt refresh |
| 13:27.07 | lcuk | no, i am explaining a bug |
| 13:27.10 | lcuk | or set of bugs |
| 13:27.12 | sivang | MohammadAG: if that means anything to you, so to describe the API funcs/methods a certain component supports or accepts, |
| 13:27.18 | sivang | MohammadAG: or "messages" in OOP speak. |
| 13:27.24 | lcuk | ntpd should update time and refresh the clock |
| 13:27.30 | MohammadAG | sivang, and the .cpp files are the code itself |
| 13:27.33 | lcuk | but it doesnt |
| 13:27.34 | sivang | MohammadAG: exactly |
| 13:27.38 | sivang | MohammadAG: "the implementation" |
| 13:27.46 | sivang | MohammadAG: which should be hidden from the clients ( |
| 13:27.47 | lcuk | is there a point in OS where a script can run on network connect? |
| 13:27.52 | sivang | MohammadAG: "users" of the classes |
| 13:27.54 | lcuk | and a way of refreshing the clock |
| 13:27.57 | lcuk | widget |
| 13:28.03 | sivang | MohammadAG: Python has a similar notion with zope.interface |
| 13:28.04 | luke-jr | Ahoy thar lcuk |
| 13:28.09 | lcuk | \o luke-jr |
| 13:28.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: maybe clock updates after 60s? |
| 13:28.25 | luke-jr | lcuk: where be ye pirate hat? |
| 13:28.33 | sivang | MohammadAG: http://wiki.zope.org/Interfaces/FrontPage |
| 13:28.41 | sivang | MohammadAG: twisted has them as well |
| 13:28.48 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, the first few times I ran ntpd from the console it didnt update |
| 13:29.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: that's weird. date gave correct time? |
| 13:29.30 | sivang | MohammadAG: the .h/.c/.cc stuff is sort of explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_data_type |
| 13:29.37 | sivang | MohammadAG: ADTs |
| 13:29.41 | MohammadAG | and .pro files are like makefiles for Qt? |
| 13:29.42 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, yes |
| 13:29.46 | lcuk | after ntpd -s |
| 13:29.49 | lcuk | the date is correct |
| 13:29.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: also you want to run hwclock --systohc after adjusting time |
| 13:29.56 | lcuk | but to actually get the widget to refresh |
| 13:29.59 | lcuk | i still have to open time |
| 13:30.02 | lcuk | and save it |
| 13:30.04 | luke-jr | not exactly |
| 13:30.10 | lcuk | no DocScrutinizer51 |
| 13:30.16 | lcuk | i want it to happen automatically |
| 13:30.20 | lcuk | after net connect |
| 13:30.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | iknowiknow |
| 13:30.31 | lcuk | idk console foo |
| 13:30.45 | lcuk | it took me 6 months to remember ntpd -s ya know |
| 13:30.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: it should probably run ntpdate in ifup script |
| 13:31.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | ntpd isn't exactly tailored to fit usecase of sporadic network connectivity |
| 13:32.23 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@78.147.235.131) |
| 13:32.31 | lcuk | then store a random flag with now date |
| 13:32.34 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: sure it is |
| 13:32.38 | lcuk | and if we have gone back in time to 2009 |
| 13:32.45 | lcuk | run it |
| 13:32.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | the daemon doesn't cope well with missing connection |
| 13:32.51 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: in fact, ntpd *blocks* ntpd |
| 13:32.52 | lcuk | i dont really care about 5 seconds off |
| 13:32.59 | lcuk | but it showing 2009 is a bummer |
| 13:33.00 | luke-jr | err |
| 13:33.03 | luke-jr | blocks ntpdate |
| 13:33.05 | sivang | MohammadAG: sort of I think, I think they are used by qmake to create proper makefiles for make |
| 13:33.14 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: then something is wrong |
| 13:33.15 | MohammadAG | is this void MainWindow::createMenus() like def createMenus() in python? |
| 13:33.26 | MohammadAG | createMenus(self) that is |
| 13:33.28 | luke-jr | even w/o network, ntpd is supposed to calculate skew and counter it |
| 13:33.46 | MohammadAG | sivang, ah, sorta like a configure script |
| 13:33.54 | luke-jr | and on a N810 or N900, it only makes sense to have ntpd check the GPS time every so often |
| 13:34.08 | sivang | MohammadAG: similar but the C++ version is using the method in the class wihtout instantiation, while "createMenus(self)" does. |
| 13:34.24 | sivang | MohammadAG: as far as I understand </grain of salt> |
| 13:34.35 | lcuk | doc, if [ -z "`date|grep 2009`" ] |
| 13:34.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: anyway enabling automatic adjust in time settings only means it's listening to GSM time msgs |
| 13:34.54 | lcuk | hence me talking about ntpd |
| 13:35.03 | sivang | MohammadAG: it is something else if you use this to declare a method |
| 13:35.16 | sivang | MohammadAG: as the syntax for declaring it is quite similar |
| 13:35.24 | MohammadAG | hmm' |
| 13:35.53 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:36.01 | MohammadAG | helpMenu would be the object name? |
| 13:36.37 | luke-jr | tr? |
| 13:36.38 | sivang | MohammadAG: yes, if addMenu returns an instance |
| 13:36.40 | luke-jr | I thought it was _ |
| 13:36.51 | MohammadAG | idk, that's the example I'm looking at |
| 13:36.57 | lcuk | MohammadAG, i just found out last night |
| 13:37.04 | sivang | MohammadAG: and menuBar here is supposed produce an instance as well |
| 13:37.05 | MohammadAG | was gonna was what tr was lol |
| 13:37.16 | lcuk | adding a textbox onto liqflow lets text input direct on desktop |
| 13:37.17 | MohammadAG | menuBar is that blue arrow thingy |
| 13:37.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: my ntpd is working just fine as my device is 'always online'. For devices with sporadic connectivity I recommend not using ntpd and instead include ntpdate call to ifup |
| 13:37.25 | MohammadAG | lcuk, nice |
| 13:37.41 | zokier | tr enables translateable strings |
| 13:37.46 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, i dont care the semantics, i get frustrated seeing clock at 2009 |
| 13:37.48 | sivang | http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq03-swedish-chef.html |
| 13:37.52 | sivang | MohammadAG: ^ |
| 13:37.55 | lcuk | the internal battery is dead |
| 13:37.58 | lcuk | so needs fixing |
| 13:38.02 | sivang | MohammadAG: about 'tr' |
| 13:38.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: how can I help? |
| 13:38.31 | lcuk | make ntp work and refresh the clock on desktop ! |
| 13:38.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | sivang: ooh, THAT tr() |
| 13:38.45 | sivang | DocScrutinizer51: :) |
| 13:39.15 | lcuk | even tie it in with the system setting for automatically adjust clock if you feel you have to |
| 13:39.18 | lcuk | :D |
| 13:39.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, I was involved in I18n of twinkle |
| 13:39.22 | sivang | is surprised as the amount of help he has been able to provide so far. |
| 13:39.24 | sivang | :) |
| 13:40.05 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, loads of people have the clock issue now after popping batteries and sims |
| 13:40.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah |
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| 13:41.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | weird thing is I got the clock-issue even on running down main bat to <3.0V :-O |
| 13:41.50 | FIQ | hmm |
| 13:41.54 | FIQ | election day today! |
| 13:42.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | seems there's a silicon bug stopping main bat supply even from powering RTC, if voltage less 3V |
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| 13:42.42 | lcuk | FIQ, really |
| 13:42.50 | lcuk | wheres the link to the voting page people need to be on? |
| 13:42.51 | luke-jr | FIQ: Arrrr, rather, talk like ye pirate day |
| 13:43.24 | FIQ | luke-jr, yes, it's the same day this year. :p |
| 13:43.42 | MohammadAG | and the Maverick breakage starts |
| 13:43.43 | MohammadAG | (gedit:11462): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory |
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| 13:54.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: err nope, scratch my prev statement. I have deinstalled ntpd as it didn't work |
| 13:54.17 | SpeedEvil | works for me |
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| 13:55.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, how often do you roam, SpeedEvil ? |
| 13:55.55 | SpeedEvil | Not very often |
| 13:56.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | :nod: |
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| 14:05.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: changing system time with ntpd or ntptime/ntpdate shouldn't make a diff to doing same with date cmd. I can't see why system status clock applet wouldn't update, except if they use an alarmd or other absolute time alarm to trigger refresh, and due to systime adjusted backwards that alarm 'never' triggers |
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| 14:16.09 | johnsq | Hi |
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| 14:30.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | anybody recalls what's the special tweaks of proto devices' firmware? What, if anything, will cease to work when flashing a 'normal' PR1.2 image to a prototype? |
| 14:32.02 | lcuk | huh |
| 14:32.22 | lcuk | how prototypey? |
| 14:33.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: F4 |
| 14:33.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | whatever that means |
| 14:33.40 | lcuk | hoe do i find out which variants i have ? |
| 14:34.12 | *** join/#maemo kontio (~kontio@a85-156-228-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:34.12 | *** join/#maemo kontio (~kontio@unaffiliated/kontio) |
| 14:34.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | dunno |
| 14:34.36 | *** join/#maemo ritz (~ritz@114.143.52.113) |
| 14:34.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | cal? |
| 14:35.23 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 14:35.24 | lcuk | there might be a sticker but i cant remember lol |
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| 14:36.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | osso-product-info OSSO_PRODUCT_HARDWARE='RX-51' ? |
| 14:37.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | anyway, what's been the major diffs of any proto to MP? |
| 14:37.15 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, the device i am on now doesnt say that |
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| 14:41.02 | MohammadAG | env |
| 14:41.06 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, afaik the flashing images differ |
| 14:41.26 | MohammadAG | maverick beta 1 is better than lucid xD |
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| 14:41.35 | MohammadAG | at least the thermal sensors work now |
| 14:41.55 | sobczyk | MohammadAG: it's still not final ;) |
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| 15:03.16 | ShadowJK | oh wow, ovi music seems to finally offer me drm-free without complaining my N900 isn't an N-series device |
| 15:03.32 | ShadowJK | maybe I should attempt to create an account again |
| 15:03.41 | *** join/#maemo Plektra (~lari@shell.uio.fi) |
| 15:03.44 | sivang | what's that rapid content widgets creation approach Nokia has ? in which you can create apps for your blog or so through a web interface |
| 15:03.47 | sivang | anybody remembers? |
| 15:05.43 | ShadowJK | is that what web runtime does? |
| 15:07.44 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 15:08.03 | sivang | ShadowJK: it uses WRT, but there was a web interface from somewhere to create the widgets apps |
| 15:08.09 | sivang | (AFAIK) |
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| 15:16.34 | w00t | Jaffa: dne.. not here, pong |
| 15:16.52 | w00t | on a bus, but i have my n900 :) |
| 15:19.37 | MiXu- | On a train o/ |
| 15:19.37 | Jaffa | w00t: See various emails. You're not out (yet ;-)) |
| 15:19.49 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B366A19.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:20.54 | w00t | yeah, kathy informed me.. cant easily get them on n900 coz of the mail client i use (sup) but i shall read asap once i get to the apartment im staying |
| 15:21.09 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 15:22.00 | w00t | ty :) |
| 15:22.45 | Stskeeps | i vote w00t be disqualified for being on a bus |
| 15:22.46 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:22.58 | w00t | lol |
| 15:28.09 | *** join/#maemo kerio (kerio92@unaffiliated/kerio92) |
| 15:30.41 | Jaffa | SD69 really pisses me off. |
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| 15:41.05 | Stskeeps | he's a lawyer, he's supposed to be nitpicky |
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| 16:13.06 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: Is he? Not just a git, then? |
| 16:14.46 | Stskeeps | professional git |
| 16:17.37 | frals | w00t: whereabouts are you staying? ;) |
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| 16:37.50 | w00t | frals: er.. good question |
| 16:38.03 | w00t | celebrates in the small victory of finally finding the apartment and managing to get internet |
| 16:38.30 | frals | haha |
| 16:41.51 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@77.126.26.66) |
| 16:42.21 | RST38h | swears, disabling every single multitouch/tap feature of his new shining Synaptics touchpad. |
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| 16:43.03 | MNZ | RST38h, circular scrolling! |
| 16:43.10 | RST38h | Whoever came up with an idea that multitouch is somehow "natural" never had to use it himself |
| 16:43.13 | RST38h | MNZ: Gone! |
| 16:43.32 | MNZ | but it's really nice :/ |
| 16:43.37 | RST38h | Screw it. |
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| 16:53.28 | MohammadAG | well |
| 16:53.34 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@77.126.26.66) |
| 16:53.44 | MohammadAG | backing up the kernel by dd'ing /dev/mtd3 does NOT work |
| 16:54.23 | MohammadAG | device won't boot, but what's interesting is, taking out the battery with the USB connected keeps it on |
| 16:55.42 | RST38h | still trying to unbrick your device? |
| 16:56.41 | MohammadAG | it's not bricked :P |
| 16:57.53 | RST38h | ah ok |
| 16:58.06 | RST38h | vaguely remembers someone bricking his device latley |
| 17:00.25 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 17:10.01 | lcuk | hrw|gone, i like your writeup about designing in qt |
| 17:10.02 | lcuk | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/09/17/is-designing-ui-simple-with-qt/ |
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| 17:23.18 | Noobmonk3y | waves |
| 17:23.27 | Noobmonk3y | lcuk, hows the head/ear? |
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| 17:24.01 | Noobmonk3y | has been a busy boy today - could do with a million people to double check my ramblings :) - http://www.greg-roberts.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=7&Itemid=1 |
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| 17:29.11 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, ear is ok, i can hear again now :) |
| 17:29.24 | lcuk | just got back from walk round country park |
| 17:29.33 | lcuk | jake was jumping in tonnes of muddy puddles |
| 17:29.58 | Noobmonk3y | w000p! |
| 17:30.01 | *** part/#maemo __a|[albsk] (~albert@c-5e4c72d5.06-180-6e6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:30.03 | Noobmonk3y | sounds good fun!! |
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| 17:39.19 | Venemo | hii guys |
| 17:40.21 | Stskeeps | hi hi |
| 17:41.51 | Noobmonk3y | hey Hey! |
| 17:41.57 | Noobmonk3y | having a good wkend Venemo ? |
| 17:42.10 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: yeah :) |
| 17:42.18 | Noobmonk3y | :) |
| 17:43.05 | lcuk | hey Venemo \o |
| 17:43.16 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: I was working on a website for my father from Friday to Saturday without having any sleep... and it is still not complete |
| 17:43.55 | Noobmonk3y | haha i know that feeling spent 5+ hours on a blog today - also designing another website and updating healthcheck! so much for a quiet sunday! |
| 17:44.02 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, that page is awesome |
| 17:44.04 | Venemo | :) |
| 17:44.18 | lcuk | but it needs to show the photos of it in expected positions as it is put in those positions :P |
| 17:44.52 | Venemo | Do you guys know of a very lightweight non-resource-hungry Linux distro + desktop environment that I can put on my grandma's Pentium I computer? |
| 17:45.01 | Noobmonk3y | Cheers lcuk! |
| 17:45.17 | Noobmonk3y | yeah, i know - lol lcuk - need to do new Healthcheck screenshots this week i feel |
| 17:45.27 | ShadowJK | You're pretty much out of luck, because ooo or firefox/chrome/whatever is going to want 10X more memory than what the Pentium machine has |
| 17:45.33 | Noobmonk3y | Venemo, pretty sure ubuntu would work, not sure on which version |
| 17:45.52 | Noobmonk3y | Shadow, not sure on that, the pentium should be able to handle the basics |
| 17:46.03 | Noobmonk3y | worth a try anyway |
| 17:46.17 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: I was first thinking of Fedora (my favourite), but it requires i686 :D |
| 17:46.20 | ShadowJK | Well just consider that in all likelyhood it has less ram than a 770 :) |
| 17:46.25 | Noobmonk3y | lol |
| 17:46.50 | Venemo | ShadowJK: yes! 16 MB RAM if I recall correctly, plus a 150 MHz processor |
| 17:47.14 | ShadowJK | Yeah, give up :) |
| 17:47.29 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 17:47.41 | Venemo | it ran Windows 95, but something happened to the machine... I will need to look at it next week when I go home :P |
| 17:47.43 | ShadowJK | Even netscape 3 back in the days was a hog on my P133 32M ram :) |
| 17:48.05 | Venemo | she doesn't have an internet connection, so this is not an issue |
| 17:48.09 | *** part/#maemo cehteh` (~ct@pipapo.org) |
| 17:48.26 | Noobmonk3y | Venmo, probably cheaper on your time do buy her a £50 second hand pc with 5* the power lol |
| 17:48.52 | Noobmonk3y | I have 7 spare dell optiplex's at the moment :P hehe - but i have a feeling you aint local to me lol! |
| 17:50.23 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: well, unfortunately no. I live in Budapest |
| 17:50.37 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-3-237.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:50.37 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 17:50.47 | Noobmonk3y | ahhhh - will be in greece on sunday next week, still a bit to far away to pop buy |
| 17:50.50 | Noobmonk3y | by* |
| 17:51.50 | *** join/#maemo tripzero (~tripzero@nat/intel/x-cmwdlrcidzvxlrey) |
| 17:53.05 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: do you mean £ by Š? |
| 17:53.38 | Noobmonk3y | lol i meant popping by, so i could drop it off, you can have one for free, but shipping would cost me £50+ most likely! lol |
| 17:54.02 | Noobmonk3y | + i'm a lazy bugger, and i hate going to the post office lol |
| 17:55.11 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: oh, that's not what I meant |
| 17:55.20 | Noobmonk3y | oh lol |
| 17:55.41 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: I just asked whether you meant british pounds? (are you Brittish?) |
| 17:55.42 | Noobmonk3y | i posted the symbol £ (As is pounds) -did it display oddly on your screen? |
| 17:55.47 | Noobmonk3y | yes, i am :) |
| 17:55.48 | Noobmonk3y | ahhh gotcha |
| 17:56.06 | *** join/#maemo matthias__ (~matthias@cm143-141.liwest.at) |
| 17:56.36 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: I thought the symbol is £ |
| 17:57.22 | Noobmonk3y | it is :) |
| 17:57.50 | *** part/#maemo matthias__ (~matthias@cm143-141.liwest.at) |
| 17:59.15 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, the further down the page I go, the more I likey |
| 17:59.19 | lcuk | http://www.greg-roberts.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=7&Itemid=1 |
| 18:00.50 | Noobmonk3y | hehehe cheers lcuk! its not all there, but that should give people a) a bit of an insight in terminal commands, and b) some N900 knowledge... Will add useful links to each section and finish the rest. Tis basically gonna be my findings of all of the CAT'ing of terminal i have done lol! |
| 18:00.54 | *** join/#maemo Samhita (~pavan@115.184.71.50) |
| 18:01.15 | Noobmonk3y | (i posted most of that blog from the n900 - but gave up after thumb and eye ache!) |
| 18:01.24 | lcuk | good, you are presenting things well |
| 18:01.41 | lcuk | and healthcheck is a great tool for people to investigate the device |
| 18:02.15 | Noobmonk3y | :) :) - the most feedback from healthcheck i've actually had is people looking at the code and learning about the n900 - and unexpected benefit :) |
| 18:03.13 | Noobmonk3y | its kinda odd, as i know i don't code too well, but i love the investigation part - what is odd, is really how badly documented some of the n900 parts are :| - ie, when i cat something, i'd expect a documented list of what something does either from nokia, manufacturer or supplier, in most cases that is not true (like boot_reason) for example |
| 18:03.38 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: why do you think you don't code well? |
| 18:04.22 | Noobmonk3y | Venemo, As it ignores all good coding practice to get something to work, there are also errors in it, mainly affecting the tools i used to get information. But it works i suppose :P |
| 18:04.31 | Noobmonk3y | not as messy as it used to be ;) |
| 18:04.44 | lcuk | sounds familiar :) |
| 18:04.47 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: well, I know the feeling |
| 18:05.21 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: for Sticky Notes, I had to go for several hacks to get things working as I want them to work |
| 18:05.40 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 18:05.48 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: because of the number of these, many people can question my ability to create sane code! |
| 18:06.04 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 18:06.11 | *** join/#maemo spinningcompass (~hugo@adsl-99-33-228-255.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:06.15 | Noobmonk3y | hahaha :) |
| 18:06.33 | Noobmonk3y | I think i flit between things to quick to learn standards :P - so getting something working is good enough for me :) |
| 18:07.27 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: hm, your HDR pictures are amazing |
| 18:07.51 | Venemo | for others to check out: http://www.greg-roberts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=11 |
| 18:08.11 | Noobmonk3y | awww cheers!!! :) - i love HDR and photo techniques, all of those have been shot on a 6mp EOS 300D :) hehe, my missues has a 400D (And cross fingers, after my 30th in 2 weeks i may have a better one!) lol |
| 18:08.31 | Venemo | Noobmonk3y: btw, HDR = "High Dynamic Range", you could change it in the menu (which says "High Defined Range") |
| 18:08.42 | Noobmonk3y | http://www.greg-roberts.com/images/Gallery/HDR/webphdr_001.jpg - that was my first ever attempt Venemo :) - came out pretty good |
| 18:08.53 | Noobmonk3y | ooo v good point - it kinda is both though lol |
| 18:08.58 | Venemo | very nice |
| 18:09.03 | Noobmonk3y | depending how pedantic people feel lol |
| 18:09.26 | Noobmonk3y | i did that water tanker one, after reading someones tweet ! hehe - so went out, took the camera, 30 mins later that appeared, got hooked! |
| 18:09.41 | Venemo | :) |
| 18:10.28 | *** join/#maemo sven-tek (~sven-tek@bchm-4d091176.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:10.55 | Noobmonk3y | chadi, bit.ly/d08bo0 :) |
| 18:11.07 | Noobmonk3y | Chadi http://bit.ly/d08bo0 even |
| 18:11.45 | hrw|gone | lcuk: nice to hear |
| 18:12.37 | MohammadAG51 | Noobmonk3y, |
| 18:12.42 | Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG51, |
| 18:12.42 | chadi | Noobmonk3y: sweet :) |
| 18:12.50 | Noobmonk3y | cheers chadi :) |
| 18:12.53 | MohammadAG51 | save screen estate |
| 18:13.01 | Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG51, Speak english |
| 18:13.26 | MohammadAG51 | Noobmonk3y, today's pirate day |
| 18:13.32 | Noobmonk3y | ooooooooooo yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 18:13.37 | Noobmonk3y | isnt every day pirate day? |
| 18:13.57 | MohammadAG51 | nar |
| 18:14.06 | MohammadAG51 | ye don't the piirate code |
| 18:14.22 | MohammadAG51 | on a more serious note |
| 18:14.27 | MohammadAG51 | Ubuntu 10.10 ftw |
| 18:14.36 | MohammadAG51 | this is the least crappy beta out of canonical |
| 18:14.45 | chadi | can't wait to test multitouch |
| 18:14.47 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@62.219.120.20) |
| 18:14.47 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 18:15.16 | Noobmonk3y | ooo cool! |
| 18:15.21 | MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, |
| 18:15.25 | MohammadAG | in healthcheck |
| 18:15.35 | MohammadAG | you're using a combobox and a button for LED tests |
| 18:15.46 | MohammadAG | why not just use a combobox? |
| 18:16.30 | Noobmonk3y | cos erm, didnt know you could lol |
| 18:16.32 | lcuk | hrw|gone, using it for a specific purpose and actually managing to get a good looking app out the other end is important for the global process - the qt stuff is coming along nicely |
| 18:18.18 | MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, sec |
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| 19:06.47 | timeless_pidgin1 | Hello from a ferry. |
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| 19:07.50 | Stskeeps | what country are you in? :P |
| 19:08.19 | timeless_stenali | Well. We're about to depart Scotland |
| 19:08.30 | timeless_stenali | And we'll dock in Northern Ireland |
| 19:08.57 | timeless_stenali | Technically it's all the United Kingdom, which is rather boring... |
| 19:09.14 | timeless_stenali | But scotland has its own domestic parliament :) |
| 19:09.24 | timeless_stenali | Dunno about Northern Ireland |
| 19:10.12 | timeless_stenali | So far this free wifi seems to work. There's also a "movie" wifi network. I'll have to sign off to try it. |
| 19:11.15 | Jaffa | timeless_stenali: There's a Northern Ireland Assembly |
| 19:11.42 | timeless_stenali | We're moving |
| 19:12.03 | timeless_stenali | Oh, "stela line is now on Twitter and Facebook" whatever those are :) |
| 19:14.06 | wazd | hrw|gone: ping |
| 19:14.13 | wazd | hello everyone :) |
| 19:14.34 | *** join/#maemo Alpharabius (~chatzilla@88.233.100.84) |
| 19:14.35 | timeless_stenali | Hi wazd |
| 19:14.37 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 19:14.43 | timeless_stenali | waves from some sea |
| 19:14.59 | timeless_stenali | Northern Irish Sea ? |
| 19:15.07 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B_ (~csb@92.24.42.215) |
| 19:15.56 | timeless_stenali | decides to test bandwidth / latency by trying a SIP call |
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| 19:18.49 | timeless_stenali | One way (inbound audio) sip w/ signaling works :o |
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| 19:27.24 | timeless_stenali | They're showing "the blind side". I'm going to explore... Bye |
| 19:27.27 | *** part/#maemo timeless_stenali (~timeless@148.122.197.152) |
| 19:31.50 | *** join/#maemo GAN900 (~ryan@248-35.187-72.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 19:32.06 | GAN900 | Worst weekend ever |
| 19:32.17 | GAN900 | New N900 here Monday |
| 19:32.23 | Jaffa | Oooh |
| 19:32.33 | Stskeeps | what happened to the old one? |
| 19:32.38 | GAN900 | Bad NAND or eMMC |
| 19:32.53 | Stskeeps | identified by what symptom? |
| 19:32.56 | GAN900 | Didn't manage to get to the point where I felt like fighting with MeeGo to check for bad blocks. |
| 19:33.06 | GAN900 | By it dying while booting at the Nokia logo |
| 19:33.16 | GAN900 | and booting fine from MeeGo on the MicroSD. |
| 19:33.22 | RST38h | interesting |
| 19:33.32 | Stskeeps | GAN900: hrm, usually not good |
| 19:33.39 | GAN900 | Indeed not |
| 19:33.57 | GAN900 | Somehow it expired itself to coincide perfectly with the end of the loan period |
| 19:34.01 | GAN900 | So back to Finland it goes. |
| 19:34.29 | Jaffa | GAN900: Own bought one, then? |
| 19:34.34 | GAN900 | Yeah |
| 19:34.41 | alterego | I really want a second N900 :( |
| 19:34.41 | Jaffa | New or second hand? |
| 19:34.43 | GAN900 | $399 from Amazon |
| 19:34.44 | GAN900 | New |
| 19:34.58 | GAN900 | Friend is going to pay me for my DDP one that he's been using since I got it. |
| 19:35.03 | w00t | GAN900: well, that worked our kind of well, then |
| 19:35.10 | alterego | I've just got a new work contract, so I might be able to buy a new gadget with the pay :) |
| 19:35.23 | Jaffa | After extensive playing with an N8 (nearly typed R8, I wish!); I've concluded Maemo's still the best looking, most flexible and most integrated (except Ovi) phone for me at the moment. |
| 19:35.47 | GAN900 | Symbian just has too much baggage. |
| 19:35.59 | GAN900 | I really hope the new execs at Nokia manage to push things in good directions. |
| 19:36.03 | w00t | Jaffa: I must ask, is S^3 really less shit than prior symbian offerings? :) |
| 19:36.10 | Jaffa | w00t: It is less shit. |
| 19:36.14 | w00t | wow |
| 19:36.16 | w00t | that's no mean feat |
| 19:36.17 | alterego | I was tempted into getting an N8 just for cross device development, as I'd obviously like to target new Symbian handsets too, but I think I might wait for Symbian 4 |
| 19:36.30 | GAN900 | alturiak: sounds like a good plan. |
| 19:36.47 | alterego | It is less shit, but only because they've spent more than five minutes adding touch functionality. |
| 19:36.55 | Jaffa | w00t: The physical design of the hardware is orders of magntitude better looking than the N900 |
| 19:37.14 | w00t | yes, the devices look sexy, at least from what i've seen on videos/etc |
| 19:37.15 | Jaffa | Gives me high hopes for the Harmattan device. |
| 19:37.16 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B482D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:37.18 | w00t | (I haven't seen one) |
| 19:37.31 | GAN900 | The bit on Engadget about hardware setting software requirements is just unreal |
| 19:37.34 | GAN900 | if unsurprising |
| 19:37.37 | w00t | I like the common theme that seems to run through the hardware |
| 19:37.39 | w00t | (design) |
| 19:37.40 | alterego | Yeah, doest look quite sexsy. |
| 19:37.59 | GAN900 | Minus that goddamn capacitive screen. |
| 19:38.06 | Jaffa | The E7 is a *beast* though; hopefully the Harmattan device won't be anywhere near that big |
| 19:38.20 | w00t | am I the only person that likes big phones? |
| 19:38.21 | w00t | :P |
| 19:38.30 | alterego | I dunno, I like the E7 design, maybe 1/2 an inch smaller though |
| 19:38.42 | w00t | i'd love an E7 |
| 19:38.43 | Stskeeps | w00t: well, you probably have something to make up for, without a big phone in your pocket.. |
| 19:38.46 | Stskeeps | runs |
| 19:38.50 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 19:38.52 | alterego | I liked the keynote, "It's _biiiiig_" |
| 19:38.54 | w00t | Stskeeps: oh you |
| 19:38.57 | Jaffa | w00t: The E7 is a *very* big phone |
| 19:38.58 | jacekowski | looks like failing usb port have failed on my n900 |
| 19:38.59 | Trizt | I don't like the design of the new nokias, feels a bit "boring" |
| 19:39.12 | jacekowski | or it's just hmm, something else |
| 19:39.15 | Jaffa | Trizt: I wasn't impressed by the photos until I saw them in the flesh |
| 19:39.22 | GAN900 | Trizt: aye. |
| 19:39.29 | GAN900 | The N97 had more much interesting styling. |
| 19:39.41 | Jaffa | Too retro & boring for me. |
| 19:39.42 | w00t | shame about the hardware |
| 19:40.06 | alterego | I felt the same about the N810, the pictures don't do it justice. When I got my N810, I thought "Wow, this is a really sexy device" |
| 19:40.09 | RST38h | smirks at the mention of n97 |
| 19:40.22 | RST38h | that one was a disaster |
| 19:40.22 | alterego | Though, the N900 was kind of opposite, the pictures make it look prettier than it actually is in person :) |
| 19:40.36 | alterego | Though I do remember thinking, "Wow, this is a bit smaller than I imagined". |
| 19:40.39 | RST38h | n900 is a 5800 on steroids |
| 19:40.45 | GAN900 | Way too much plastic. |
| 19:40.50 | RST38h | i.e. not pretty but practical |
| 19:40.50 | Jaffa | And been hit by an ugly stick. |
| 19:40.52 | Jaffa | Repeatedly. |
| 19:41.09 | Trizt | I wish the N900 could have been thinner, otherwise I like it |
| 19:41.11 | Jaffa | Well, it wasn't that bad to start with; but looks really dated and plasticky now |
| 19:41.14 | alterego | I just think the front could be a little nicer :) |
| 19:41.24 | GAN900 | At least it feels good to hold. |
| 19:41.31 | alterego | Yeah, that it does. |
| 19:41.42 | GAN900 | I dunno if I can deal with the tilted touchscreen. |
| 19:41.44 | Jaffa | And handy in the case of needing a brick to throw through a window for a bit of burglarising. |
| 19:41.46 | RST38h | iPhone is exactly the same size but thinner. It is pain to hold. |
| 19:41.55 | w00t | Jaffa: hahah |
| 19:42.01 | RST38h | Does not feel substantial, as you would expect phone receiver to be |
| 19:42.01 | GAN900 | You really have to have a case for the iPhone |
| 19:42.04 | alterego | GAN900: why? |
| 19:42.05 | Trizt | of course I wish it had a multi core cpu and compass and gyro, built in tv receiver, video.... |
| 19:42.11 | GAN900 | Which is what makes it genius. |
| 19:42.18 | w00t | I have sent my n900 through a window, once |
| 19:42.22 | GAN900 | alterego: dunno, just looks really problematic for me. |
| 19:42.23 | Jaffa | Trizt: I'd settle for a teleport; keep the rest. |
| 19:42.27 | Jaffa | w00t: Really?! |
| 19:42.31 | w00t | yes |
| 19:42.33 | w00t | I fell |
| 19:42.37 | w00t | it went flying |
| 19:42.41 | Trizt | Jaffa; yeah, that had been the ultimate feature |
| 19:42.48 | GAN900 | iPhone looks really good in specs and pictures, but you still make money on cases. |
| 19:42.49 | alterego | GAN900: I kind of like the idea, but I'll have to use one before I can say I like it or not practically. |
| 19:42.53 | w00t | slight chip in the frame, but hardly noticable |
| 19:43.01 | w00t | no other damage |
| 19:43.06 | RST38h | GAN900: so you made piece with your iphone at last? |
| 19:43.15 | RST38h | s/piece/peace |
| 19:43.16 | GAN900 | RST38h: I want to burn it to death. |
| 19:43.23 | RST38h | hm |
| 19:43.25 | GAN900 | RST38h: and don't attribute ownership to me. |
| 19:43.38 | RST38h | hmm |
| 19:43.47 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:43.54 | alterego | You really found the iPhone that bad>? |
| 19:44.03 | Trizt | anyone managed to run maemo on an iphone? |
| 19:44.04 | GAN900 | Can't stand it |
| 19:44.14 | alterego | Interesting. |
| 19:44.21 | GAN900 | iOS is boring to use, the screen sucks, the touchscreen sucks, the formfactor is irritating. |
| 19:44.22 | MohammadAG51 | GAN900, what's difference between a production and a preproduction device |
| 19:44.26 | MohammadAG51 | N900 |
| 19:44.32 | GAN900 | Things are always more complicated than they need to be. |
| 19:44.35 | w00t | I tried an iPhone (again) a few months ago, I was pretty underwhelmed really |
| 19:44.40 | GAN900 | MohammadAG51: no N900 badge. |
| 19:44.45 | MohammadAG51 | i remember you metnioned something about loaders being different |
| 19:44.47 | alterego | I've got a couple of friends that have them, one is a mobile dev, god they're such massive fan boys, touting how great it is. |
| 19:44.49 | GAN900 | MohammadAG51: Says property of Nokia on the inside. |
| 19:45.10 | GAN900 | MohammadAG51: the HW ID isn't listed in the COMBINED FIASCO images. |
| 19:45.12 | MohammadAG51 | GAN900, so only the loader is different? |
| 19:45.13 | alterego | I just want to shout at them, but I refrain and just remember what I can do on my older, but far more flexible N900 |
| 19:45.32 | RST38h | MMohammad: "N900" on the outside, yellow badge on the inside, boot loader not compatible with the rootfs images |
| 19:45.39 | GAN900 | alterego: I had a local journalist try to tell me Apple invented multitasking when he got his iPhone 4. |
| 19:45.49 | alterego | GAN900: hahahah |
| 19:45.51 | RST38h | Mohammad: I.e. you have to flash it with specially prepared firmware |
| 19:45.52 | MohammadAG51 | alterego, oh so we're similar, except I don't refrain |
| 19:45.57 | alterego | Like they invent everything :/ |
| 19:46.02 | GAN900 | RST38h: changing HW id to flash didn't seem to affect anything. |
| 19:46.19 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 19:46.22 | *** join/#maemo RangerBob (~Brian@pool-72-73-26-184.clppva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:46.26 | MohammadAG51 | RST38h, I assume that's not publically available? |
| 19:46.34 | alterego | GAN900: you can force flash it I believe, but it might be a bit dangerous. |
| 19:46.36 | GAN900 | The one thing that's really lightyears ahead of everybody else on Maemo devices is book reading. |
| 19:46.41 | MohammadAG | what's the HW revision in flasher? |
| 19:46.44 | RST38h | Mohammad: It is not, but a letter to dneary or qgil usually solves the problem |
| 19:46.51 | GAN900 | alterego: worked fine on my proto for 3 or 4 times |
| 19:47.01 | alterego | GAN900: one app, many books? As oppose to 4x apps per book? :) |
| 19:47.05 | GAN900 | Until my NAND/eMMC died last week, that is, but dunno if that's related. :D |
| 19:47.13 | GAN900 | alterego: one USABLE app |
| 19:47.16 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:47.18 | GAN900 | Combined with a USABLE screen |
| 19:47.20 | derf | GAN900: They did. |
| 19:47.26 | derf | With "System 6" in 1988. |
| 19:47.37 | derf | Please ignore all the Unices before that. |
| 19:47.40 | alterego | GAN900: what did you honestly think about the display quality of the screen? Colours and such? |
| 19:47.47 | GAN900 | derf: who did what? |
| 19:47.51 | derf | Apple. |
| 19:47.58 | GAN900 | alterego: N900 or iPhone? |
| 19:48.01 | alterego | iPhone |
| 19:48.08 | GAN900 | The iPhone 4 screen is gorgeous. |
| 19:48.12 | GAN900 | Absolutely jaw dropping |
| 19:48.40 | GAN900 | but it's combined with a UI designed for a screen with half the resolution, so it's mostly useless. |
| 19:48.43 | alterego | I should probably pay more attention next time I see them, and they have it on the table infront of them like all iPhoneys do. |
| 19:48.51 | GAN900 | iPhone 1G's screen is ugly |
| 19:48.54 | GAN900 | 3G is meh |
| 19:49.06 | GAN900 | 3GS is acceptable color and brightness wise but shit resolution. |
| 19:49.14 | RST38h | but 4G! 4G |
| 19:49.45 | RST38h | 4G is God! |
| 19:49.53 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@78.147.239.179) |
| 19:50.06 | MohammadAG51 | NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 19:50.08 | GAN900 | derf: oh, multitasking. Yeah, true, but the guy's a Windows user and was referring to the modern mobile space |
| 19:50.21 | GAN900 | RST38h: The 4's screen is god. |
| 19:50.22 | MohammadAG51 | Maverick uses ubuntu software center as the deb handler |
| 19:50.27 | GAN900 | I wish Nokia would order some of those. |
| 19:50.28 | MohammadAG51 | i liked seeing file contents grr |
| 19:50.52 | MohammadAG51 | what about the "CBD" stuff nokia announced |
| 19:51.08 | *** join/#maemo Pforcelovski (~jonnenau@tuomi.oulu.fi) |
| 19:51.25 | GAN900 | MohammadAG51: if the resolution is shit, who cares" |
| 19:53.08 | RST38h | silently prays to the iPhone 4G scren |
| 19:53.20 | GAN900 | RST38h: good man. |
| 19:53.29 | MohammadAG | GAN900, hm, indeed |
| 19:53.49 | GAN900 | I want Retina on N9 |
| 19:54.27 | sandstorm | I heard that Catorize messes up with battery life, is that true? |
| 19:56.35 | GAN900 | sandstorm: no. |
| 19:57.38 | MohammadAG | actually, hildon-desktop does WHEN catorize is installed |
| 19:57.56 | MohammadAG | apparently catorize is only 1 page of icon |
| 19:58.19 | MohammadAG | hildon-desktop thinks it reached the end, so it bounces the page, then it thinks it reached the top and bounces it again |
| 19:58.30 | MohammadAG | so it ends up bouncing the page so fast, you can't notice it, but the CPU does |
| 19:59.06 | GAN900 | Hildon Desktop is such a half-assed mess. |
| 20:00.31 | pekuja | where can I find unzip for Maemo? |
| 20:00.41 | MohammadAG | apt-get install unzip |
| 20:00.44 | sandstorm | so Catorize messes up hildon, it drains battery quicker. |
| 20:00.59 | MohammadAG | GAN900, nah, the new version fixes it, the way Nokia ships packages sucks |
| 20:01.08 | pekuja | MohammadAG, doesn't work |
| 20:01.11 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@78.147.239.179) |
| 20:01.12 | pekuja | MohammadAG, what repo is it in? |
| 20:01.31 | MohammadAG | enable devel |
| 20:01.54 | pekuja | that's the only way to get unzip? |
| 20:01.59 | mece | testing |
| 20:02.16 | MohammadAG | mentioning the warning about devel is probably a better way to say that, but since I don't promote shit now, I don't |
| 20:02.19 | mece | just click a fremantle armel link here: http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/ |
| 20:02.27 | MohammadAG | sandstorm, http://81.216.215.120/maemo/hildon-desktop_2.2.138-1+0m5_armel.deb |
| 20:02.36 | *** join/#maemo dazo_afk (~dazo@openvpn/community/developer/dazo) |
| 20:02.58 | sandstorm | I will miss Catorize since flat style sucks too much. |
| 20:03.35 | pekuja | mece, thanks |
| 20:03.38 | sandstorm | MohammadAG: is that your version of hildon or is it the new versions of the original one ? |
| 20:03.56 | mece | sandstorm, it's both |
| 20:04.13 | mece | it's MohammadAG's new version of the original one |
| 20:04.14 | sandstorm | I mean is that custom or the original :) |
| 20:04.21 | sandstorm | ahh I see |
| 20:04.28 | mece | amIright? |
| 20:04.52 | MohammadAG | sandstorm, it's not mine |
| 20:05.24 | MohammadAG | mine lives in the ssu |
| 20:05.54 | sandstorm | since I am a newbie in this stuff, if I install this newer hildon, may I be updating without problems to a new PR and would it be a clean update removing all the remnants back ? |
| 20:06.06 | GAN900 | Ignoring the text of the election rules when they've been quoted at you twice is always fun. |
| 20:06.07 | *** join/#maemo LinuxCode (~LinuxCode@fedora/LinuxCode) |
| 20:06.20 | MohammadAG | technically, it's the same hildon |
| 20:06.39 | MohammadAG | GAN900, you don't seem to like being in the council |
| 20:07.25 | GAN900 | MohammadAG: burnt out. Tired of people interpreting things to their liking. |
| 20:08.32 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:08.39 | sandstorm | !ssu |
| 20:08.42 | MohammadAG | I only heard about the council when the chromium thingy happened |
| 20:08.47 | sandstorm | ~ssu |
| 20:08.47 | infobot | from memory, ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU |
| 20:08.56 | MohammadAG | what was done before (honest question, not trolling) |
| 20:08.58 | pekuja | hm, application manager keeps saying the unzip package is incompatible |
| 20:09.02 | MohammadAG | #maemo-ssu for my SSU |
| 20:09.16 | MohammadAG | it's not _S_ SU at the moment |
| 20:09.20 | MohammadAG | dpkg -i ftw |
| 20:09.25 | MohammadAG | HAM sucks |
| 20:09.34 | GAN900 | MohammadAG: facilitation stuff |
| 20:09.45 | GAN900 | mostly |
| 20:09.56 | GAN900 | We handed out sponsorship for the 2009 Maemo Summit |
| 20:10.01 | GAN900 | Um, other stuff. |
| 20:10.17 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 20:10.25 | GAN900 | Helped get maemo.org ready for the Fremantle release |
| 20:10.35 | GAN900 | Oversaw the ITt to Talk transition |
| 20:10.47 | GAN900 | Lots of stuff, in summary. |
| 20:11.58 | MohammadAG | Wasn't here pre-Fremantle |
| 20:12.17 | MohammadAG | always that the N8x0 and 770 ran proprietary shit |
| 20:12.36 | MohammadAG | Android wasn't there, iOS is meh, so I was stuck with Symbian |
| 20:12.43 | *** join/#maemo kerio (foobar@unaffiliated/kerio92) |
| 20:12.44 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@212.34.238.61) |
| 20:12.55 | MohammadAG | then came the N900, read about Maemo, it was linux, so I did a facepalm and sold my N97 |
| 20:13.17 | w00t | night folks, I need to catch some sleep |
| 20:13.19 | Venemo | MohammadAG: so in your opinion, N8x0 and 770 runs properitary shit, but N900 doesn't? |
| 20:13.38 | MohammadAG | Venemo, I thought it was some Java based OS |
| 20:13.44 | MohammadAG | Venemo, they all do |
| 20:13.56 | Venemo | MohammadAG :) |
| 20:14.01 | MohammadAG | I wonder how many blobs MeeGo on the N900 has |
| 20:14.49 | kerio | MohammadAG: bme and sgx? |
| 20:15.01 | w00t | plus wifi (I think, I might be totally wrong) |
| 20:15.12 | kerio | i thought wifi was open |
| 20:15.18 | w00t | you're probably right |
| 20:15.46 | GAN900 | There's a blob, though. |
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| 20:20.10 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 20:20.23 | Ken-Young | Hi TiagoTiago |
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| 20:21.41 | TiagoTiago | could someone take a look at the script at http://www.gdhpress.com.br/blog/script-vivo-zap/ and tell me if it's safe to run it on my N900 please? |
| 20:22.25 | hrw|gone | wazd: pong |
| 20:23.50 | SpeedEvil | Won't work at all TiagoTiago |
| 20:24.00 | SpeedEvil | This is not kde. |
| 20:25.58 | TiagoTiago | :( |
| 20:26.12 | SpeedEvil | What's it supposed to do |
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| 20:27.22 | TiagoTiago | setup tethering via DUN with bluetooth, to use another cell phone as a modem |
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| 20:29.36 | TiagoTiago | more specificly, it sets things to use one of the carriers from here |
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| 20:32.05 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 20:34.35 | jacktheripper | is it possible to hibernate my N900 ? |
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| 20:35.48 | lcuk | jacktheripper, you mean make it a next of twigs and leaves inside a cave and let it sleep for winter? |
| 20:35.55 | lcuk | if so, sure - you jsut need a handy cave |
| 20:36.10 | jacktheripper | does the kernel support USB twigs ? |
| 20:36.46 | TiagoTiago | is there a "wvdial" for the N900? |
| 20:37.14 | lcuk | jacktheripper, theres been some hacking on stuff I think, you will have to search the forums |
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| 20:38.20 | hrw|gone | wazd: catch me during my working day - 9-18 europe/warsaw timezone (22:36 now) |
| 20:38.23 | hrw|gone | bye |
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| 20:41.00 | TiagoTiago | Speed£ it has instructions about installing that wvdial thing in many distros uncluding debian derivatives |
| 20:41.03 | TiagoTiago | erm |
| 20:41.09 | *** join/#maemo BCMM_ (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 20:41.12 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: http://81.216.215.120/maemo/hildon-desktop_2.2.138-1+0m5_armel.deb -- you know it messes up apt-get dependencies so you can't install anything after that? I apt-get remove'd the generic-pr metapackage and it's fine since |
| 20:41.47 | TiagoTiago | SpeedEvil * |
| 20:41.54 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, it's not mine anyways |
| 20:41.59 | MohammadAG51 | it shouldn't though |
| 20:42.03 | MohammadAG51 | same number |
| 20:43.08 | grishnav | hi |
| 20:44.20 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 20:45.17 | TiagoTiago | SpeedEvil? |
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| 20:45.56 | SpeedEvil | I don't know. |
| 20:46.00 | SpeedEvil | Sorry. |
| 20:46.34 | TiagoTiago | you can't tell by the commands in that script if it will harm my N900? |
| 20:47.51 | MohammadAG51 | what script |
| 20:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: what in "Won't work at all TiagoTiago, This is not kde." was so hard to understand? |
| 20:48.40 | TiagoTiago | <TiagoTiago> could someone take a look at the script at http://www.gdhpress.com.br/blog/script-vivo-zap/ and tell me if it's safe to run it on my N900 please? |
| 20:49.17 | TiagoTiago | it has instructions for debian derivades(sp?) |
| 20:49.36 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It is safe. It will not work. |
| 20:49.39 | lindi- | TiagoTiago: that page is not in english |
| 20:50.30 | TiagoTiago | i know, but i didn't thought the comments etc would matter to read the commands in the script |
| 20:51.16 | TiagoTiago | when reading the* |
| 20:57.12 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 20:57.36 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: I don't see the use of this script at all. There's other methods on maemo to set up PAN, and also other methods to create a GPRS connection. wvdial seems highly useless on N900 anyway, at least until we get hostmode working |
| 21:00.45 | TiagoTiago | I don't think the N73 can do bluetooth PAN |
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| 21:28.43 | koffeekan | oh man im trying to install tear on my 770 with os2007he, but every time i apt-get packages the file explorer wont open afterwards and the os crashes and will not boot back up |
| 21:28.47 | *** join/#maemo Rarok (~Rarok@65.99.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 21:29.15 | johnsq | out of space |
| 21:29.36 | koffeekan | wow really? the internal flash is that small? |
| 21:30.04 | johnsq | koffeekan: a possible error, you need to check it |
| 21:30.22 | koffeekan | how do i check it if the thing wont boot? |
| 21:31.46 | koffeekan | so i guess installing to mmc would take care of this issue ? |
| 21:32.42 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 21:32.51 | koffeekan | is there a ertain memory card that would work the best for installing the os to? |
| 21:32.52 | johnsq | test it, you can look if the file explorer shows the free space, i don't know where it is on the 770 |
| 21:33.26 | johnsq | or if terminal -> df -h works |
| 21:33.38 | koffeekan | i cant open file explorer because it dosent even boot up at all, nokia screen, tries to boot, black flash, nokia screen, etc |
| 21:34.21 | koffeekan | w/e im just going to get a fatty 2gig card and install the os to it |
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| 22:09.12 | Tuco_maria | hey |
| 22:09.24 | Tuco_maria | when will pr 1.3 be available? |
| 22:10.21 | BugBlauw | ~pr1.3 |
| 22:10.21 | infobot | pr1.3 is, like, a ban'able subject now..... |
| 22:10.30 | Tuco_maria | oh |
| 22:11.14 | Tuco_maria | thats bad news |
| 22:12.01 | BugBlauw | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48901 |
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| 22:15.12 | Tuco_maria | does underclocking to 250Mhz improve battery duration? |
| 22:16.08 | johnx | only in very specific workloads |
| 22:16.22 | luke-jr | Tuco_maria: also, 250 MHz can cause problems |
| 22:16.59 | Tuco_maria | so, should i stick with the stock clock speed of 600 Mhz? |
| 22:17.09 | luke-jr | 500 is better |
| 22:17.14 | luke-jr | 600 is overclocked |
| 22:17.18 | luke-jr | it won't last a year at 600 |
| 22:17.29 | luke-jr | why not just let cpufreq/Linux handle it dynamically? |
| 22:17.33 | johnx | keep in mind that there isn't one 'stock' clock speed. by default it scales over a range of clock speeds |
| 22:17.56 | luke-jr | I run Gentoo and my N900 uses 600 MHz less than 10% of the time |
| 22:18.13 | sandstorm | won't last a year at 600mhz? wow.. |
| 22:18.39 | johnx | if it's running constantly at 600MHz 24/7 |
| 22:18.43 | luke-jr | a large majortiy fo the time, it's idle |
| 22:19.09 | sandstorm | very interesting news for me, I'd expected more |
| 22:19.50 | sandstorm | can you run gentoo on n900 with the phone capabilities? |
| 22:20.26 | *** join/#maemo sr71 (~sr71@r.0x.to) |
| 22:20.50 | Tuco_maria | the motorola milestone uses the same silicon as the n900, and it runs at 600 mhz |
| 22:20.53 | luke-jr | sandstorm: depends what you call phone capaibilities |
| 22:20.57 | luke-jr | sandstorm: I have data working. |
| 22:21.05 | luke-jr | and data is all the service I have to test with |
| 22:21.13 | luke-jr | Tuco_maria: not 24/7 |
| 22:21.27 | sandstorm | phone calls, smses and other telecommunications stuff you know. are there proper applicatons on gentoo ? |
| 22:21.36 | luke-jr | sandstorm: there's KDE... |
| 22:21.47 | kerio | lol |
| 22:21.48 | luke-jr | sandstorm: for voice/SMS, you'll have to ask someone else though |
| 22:21.55 | luke-jr | I don't have those (useless) services |
| 22:22.06 | sandstorm | :P |
| 22:22.15 | sandstorm | can you make phone calls with KDE ? |
| 22:22.19 | kerio | has vivid memories of running gnome and kde on a machine with 384MBs of ram |
| 22:22.21 | sandstorm | and receive them |
| 22:22.48 | sandstorm | and boot your SIM card? authenticate yourself? connect to the GSM provider? with gentoo ? |
| 22:23.03 | Tuco_maria | i like the hildon interface, more than kde or gnome |
| 22:23.58 | sandstorm | if it is somehow possible, I, myself a gentoo user as well. |
| 22:24.03 | sandstorm | on my laptop though |
| 22:24.19 | sandstorm | and its my favourite distro btw. |
| 22:24.44 | DocScrutinizer | Tuco_maria: stock kernel clocks all available speeds from 250 to 600, depending on rather reasonable parameter evaluation, to get the best of performance and battery savings in all common usage profiles |
| 22:25.29 | Tuco_maria | so, it`s impossible to have better battery times? |
| 22:25.46 | johnx | not impossible |
| 22:25.55 | johnx | you could do some research with powertop |
| 22:26.12 | johnx | find out how long your phone spends in each power state |
| 22:26.23 | DocScrutinizer | no, it's simple to have great battery standby times, by simply using proper designed software that doesn't run circles for nothing |
| 22:26.49 | johnx | then try and write a better algorithm for scaling the CPU up and down depending on the software your run |
| 22:26.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: why do you hate pulseaudio and tracker, DocScrutinizer? |
| 22:27.04 | kerio | ;) |
| 22:27.04 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: eh? |
| 22:27.37 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, elaborate |
| 22:27.47 | *** part/#maemo nickaugust (~nick@li181-40.members.linode.com) |
| 22:28.01 | Tuco_maria | i use n900 mostly to browse the web and send/receive sms, ocasiomally some voice calls |
| 22:28.03 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: do you really think that's a appropriate task for somebody asking if downclocking CPU to 250 saves battery? |
| 22:28.51 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, I'm trying to get across how much Nokia has already optimized this. It's not like they just forgot that running the CPU at a slower speed would save battery |
| 22:30.05 | DocScrutinizer | Tuco_maria: if you have battery standby time issues, it's quite usualy caused by some rogue software, or a bug somewhere. Try to find which processes keep the CPU running, or do large amounts of internet traffic (both eating battery like mad) |
| 22:31.08 | Tuco_maria | the only software i`ve installed are firefox, fmms, angry birds and the plastic theme |
| 22:31.24 | Tuco_maria | maybe one of the is buggy |
| 22:31.53 | TiagoTiago_ | i think i read somewhere someone complaining that Frefox stays running after you close it |
| 22:32.19 | DocScrutinizer | Tuco_maria: for some reference, to give you an idea: my battery was at 60% after 24h of online via WLAN, with IRC by xchat on 8 chan, and a script cosntantly running and displaying my real battery status every 15s |
| 22:33.23 | Tuco_maria | i would be happy with that, mine is lasting about one day |
| 22:33.52 | DocScrutinizer | Tuco_maria: first ssh to the device, and run htop. See if any process (except htop itself :-D ) is constantly eating CPU time |
| 22:34.07 | Tuco_maria | ok |
| 22:34.47 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:36.02 | DocScrutinizer | then run powertop and make sure your cpu is mostly idle, see http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management#Powertop |
| 22:36.39 | sandstorm | I don't have powertop installed as default, what may I do for that? |
| 22:37.11 | sandstorm | and I don't know why it is not installed as default btw. |
| 22:37.13 | DocScrutinizer | find it in extras-devel, or tools repo |
| 22:37.28 | DocScrutinizer | it isn't installed by default |
| 22:37.32 | sandstorm | hmm |
| 22:39.16 | johnx | it should also give you a more clear idea of how the N900 does power saving, in terms of not just 'under'-clocking, but also actually suspending the CPU and turning it back on before the next timer expires |
| 22:39.21 | johnx | s/it/powertop |
| 22:40.22 | TiagoTiago_ | the substitution thing seems to not be working anymore |
| 22:40.26 | Tuco_maria | so, overclocking it wouldnt decrease battery life as well right? |
| 22:40.43 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/ |
| 22:41.43 | DocScrutinizer | it will. Not only battery standby time, but also CPU livetime |
| 22:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | life* |
| 22:42.38 | DocScrutinizer | overclocking is a really really bad idea, if you don't know *exactly* what and why you're doing |
| 22:42.53 | johnx | Tuco_maria, some people have claimed to not lose too much battery life when allowing a higher 'maximum' clock speed, but in my case I don't feel like it's worth the risk |
| 22:42.56 | DocScrutinizer | on a system devel level of understanding |
| 22:43.55 | Tuco_maria | i will leave it as it is then |
| 22:44.02 | TiagoTiago_ | and even knowing enough, there is still the risk the processor you got was one with the lowest score and will fry much earlier than others |
| 22:44.08 | johnx | Tuco_maria, I think that's smart :) |
| 22:45.39 | TiagoTiago_ | was among the ones* |
| 22:46.07 | DocScrutinizer | Tuco_maria: look, if TI and Nokia would have seen any benefit in allowing it, they'd have a config option in settings, like "long standby"<->"super fast execution" |
| 22:46.43 | Tuco_maria | maybe you are right... |
| 22:47.04 | *** part/#maemo sr71 (~sr71@r.0x.to) |
| 22:47.15 | TiagoTiago_ | wait, we can't trust Nokia 100% on their decisions, there are many thigns people spot that Nokia didn't put enough work on |
| 22:47.42 | DocScrutinizer | yayaya |
| 22:47.56 | johnx | in terms of power saving stuff, I tend to trust Nokia |
| 22:48.18 | DocScrutinizer | I even more tend to trust TI |
| 22:48.43 | johnx | TiagoTiago_, have you read any of their white papers or watched one of their presentations on 'race to idle'? |
| 22:48.51 | johnx | really quite cool stuff |
| 22:48.56 | TiagoTiago_ | not really |
| 22:49.33 | *** part/#maemo Tuco_maria (~Tuco_mari@187.105.176.83) |
| 22:50.03 | TiagoTiago_ | i mean, i have not read it |
| 22:50.14 | TiagoTiago_ | is it on Youtube? |
| 22:50.28 | johnx | digs it up |
| 22:50.38 | DocScrutinizer | and in all their whitepapers about OMAP and SmartReflex, Ti nowhere mentions any need for user/manufacturer to make a tradeoff between execution speed and power consumption. It's always like "this technology allows fastest execution speeds on lowest possible power consumption", no either / or |
| 22:50.39 | TiagoTiago_ | thanx |
| 22:51.02 | sandstorm | DocScrutinizer: thank you very much for info and link |
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| 22:51.45 | TiagoTiago_ | isn't SmartReflex turned off? I remember i once had a program for setting max clock speed that had a checkbox ofr SR that was unmarked, and when i marked it it made the device crashj |
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| 22:52.29 | johnx | TiagoTiago_, http://free-electrons.com/blog/fosdem-2009-videos/ , advanced power management for omap3 |
| 22:52.35 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: SmartReflex is partially turned off, due to some hw flaw which causes instabilities |
| 22:52.36 | johnx | click the 'video' link below it |
| 22:53.09 | sandstorm | so enabling SmartReflex fully can cause instability? |
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| 22:53.31 | TiagoTiago_ | why did they let hardware with such a flaw be released as a finished product? |
| 22:53.37 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: to be more specific, I think one particular function detail of the bunch of measures sailing under "SmartReflex" was disabled |
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| 22:54.11 | DocScrutinizer | sandstorm: yes |
| 22:54.24 | DocScrutinizer | possibly even hw damage |
| 22:54.30 | sandstorm | there's a tweak going around on the net echoing 1s to two configuration settings to enable SmartReflex, so you dont suggest that? |
| 22:54.32 | johnx | TiagoTiago_, happens all the time in the real world |
| 22:54.51 | TiagoTiago_ | Who's fault is the hardware has that flaw? |
| 22:54.58 | DocScrutinizer | sandstorm: no, I don't suggest that |
| 22:55.17 | johnx | dunno. could be the board Nokia designed or the chip from Ti, or the core from ARM for all I know |
| 22:55.25 | DocScrutinizer | sandstorm: there's been reasons why it's been disabled |
| 22:55.36 | TiagoTiago_ | the audio int hat video is horrible,, way too much echo and dist5ortion, very hard to understand anything :( |
| 22:55.54 | johnx | TiagoTiago_, I think there might be a summary of the talk somewhere |
| 22:56.16 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 22:56.29 | sandstorm | in addition, there are tweaks to make swappiness value 15 or 30 other than 100(default), briefly; what do you say about this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61679 |
| 22:56.44 | johnx | http://lwn.net/Articles/318727/ then scroll down to 'power management in nokia's next maemo device' |
| 22:56.56 | TiagoTiago_ | do you think that swappolube thing is safe? |
| 22:56.59 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: there's flaws in (virtually) every hardware |
| 22:57.27 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: if it's causing hw damages, then odds are it had been noticed way too late |
| 22:57.43 | DocScrutinizer | well, for instabilities same applies |
| 22:58.02 | TiagoTiago_ | did NOkia get a discount on the flawed chips? |
| 22:58.23 | johnx | TiagoTiago_, sandstorm, a much more interesting discussion on swappiness: http://kerneltrap.org/node/3000 |
| 22:58.35 | DocScrutinizer | I guess it's not the chips that are flawed, but the layout or hw design |
| 22:58.56 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: if you're really intersted... I may elaborate |
| 22:59.02 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@192.117.23.51.static.012.net.il) |
| 22:59.09 | TiagoTiago_ | sure |
| 22:59.36 | DocScrutinizer | all the following : disclaimer: AIUI & AFAIK |
| 22:59.53 | TiagoTiago_ | what does AIUI stands for? |
| 23:00.14 | johnx | ~aiui |
| 23:00.14 | infobot | i heard aiui is As I Understand It |
| 23:00.16 | TiagoTiago_ | IF the N900 was a car, would it be recalled due to that flaw? |
| 23:00.21 | TiagoTiago_ | i see |
| 23:00.29 | DocScrutinizer | The smartreflex bit that's been disabled is doing automatic switching of core voltage, to minimize power drop in the SoC |
| 23:00.49 | TiagoTiago_ | ~SoC |
| 23:00.50 | infobot | well, soc is System On Chip - many embedded cpus include a variety of peripherals as well which makes them more than just a CPU. |
| 23:01.01 | TiagoTiago_ | hm |
| 23:01.03 | DocScrutinizer | now the regulators that do that voltage regulation are in GAIA chip |
| 23:01.20 | DocScrutinizer | the power rails go to OMAP SoC |
| 23:01.35 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@192.117.23.51.static.012.net.il) |
| 23:01.36 | sandstorm | ~gaia |
| 23:01.38 | DocScrutinizer | the voltages there are changing very fast sometimes |
| 23:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | twl4030 GAIA OMAP companion chip with power management and otter supplementary functions like audio, keyboard etc |
| 23:03.09 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@192.117.23.51.static.012.net.il) |
| 23:03.18 | DocScrutinizer | now if the traces running from GAIA to SoC are too long, or have too sharp bends, or some capacitor there doesn't exactly meet the specs, or whatever... |
| 23:03.18 | lcuk | so this smartreflex is uber beardy type folks optimisations |
| 23:03.31 | lcuk | kinda like taking the mirrors off your car to make it more streamlined? |
| 23:03.36 | DocScrutinizer | odds are the voltage can't be regulated exactly and fast enough |
| 23:03.42 | johnx | lcuk, as is all modern mobile power management stuff |
| 23:04.01 | lcuk | in a way yes |
| 23:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | so CPU is operating on wrong voltage for a few milisecons, during clock speed transitions |
| 23:04.08 | lcuk | but if we have coped for this long with out it etc |
| 23:04.33 | johnx | lcuk, eh? really? you're against better power management? |
| 23:04.38 | johnx | srsly? |
| 23:04.43 | lcuk | not at all |
| 23:05.09 | lcuk | but i remember reading that bug report and that it did not work for everyone and caused instability when people turned it on |
| 23:05.17 | lcuk | so i just didnt go further down that particular path |
| 23:05.21 | johnx | yeah, it's called 'the bleeding edge' |
| 23:05.41 | johnx | next time they'll get it right and it'll save us another 1% |
| 23:05.47 | lcuk | of course! |
| 23:05.59 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@192.117.23.51.static.012.net.il) |
| 23:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: so when eventually it became apparent the dynamic core voltage regulation caused such problems, maybe even defects in SoC, it was best decision to disable it and live with that 1% shorter standby time this will cause |
| 23:07.01 | TiagoTiago_ | a kinda offtopic question that i've just reembered, would the speeds achived by waving the N900 fast with your hand be enough to affect the signals received due to doppler? |
| 23:07.03 | TiagoTiago_ | I see |
| 23:07.12 | johnx | no |
| 23:07.25 | lcuk | TiagoTiago_, at the first linuxtag event I went to with some folks |
| 23:07.36 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p5B107929.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:07.38 | johnx | your hands don't move at a significant fraction of c |
| 23:07.42 | lcuk | we were walking around and swinging our n810s around |
| 23:07.43 | lcuk | to get gps |
| 23:07.51 | lcuk | logging about 80mph |
| 23:07.55 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: yes - but only for GPS. |
| 23:07.56 | TiagoTiago_ | lol |
| 23:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: there are a lot of other functions all labeled SmartReflex, that are not related to dynamic core voltage, and those can't be switched off by this sysnode writing 0 |
| 23:07.59 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: that's how it works |
| 23:08.09 | sandstorm | can I please get your advices about these tweaks: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=815333&postcount=54 |
| 23:08.32 | lcuk | no sandstorm |
| 23:08.39 | lcuk | go and read the swappolube thread :P |
| 23:08.44 | lcuk | they have the same things in i think |
| 23:08.53 | sandstorm | letme check |
| 23:09.04 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: once again, all this isn't backed up by any insider knowledge, but results from mere deduction from the known facts |
| 23:09.06 | TiagoTiago_ | would you consider the stuff the swapplube does to be safe? |
| 23:09.15 | TiagoTiago_ | i see |
| 23:09.54 | johnx | sandstorm, I posted a link earlier about swappiness. please check read through it first. it's not nearly as clear-cut as you might think |
| 23:10.15 | nox- | moin |
| 23:10.33 | sandstorm | ah yes they are the same but I had not seen that swappolube thread before I read those tweaks on another thread. |
| 23:11.11 | sandstorm | johnx: I've read the introduction but not the e-mails, it will take some time :) |
| 23:11.38 | johnx | basically, what it comes down to is that different people want different behavior out of the linux VM subsystem |
| 23:12.02 | johnx | changing swappiness is totally safe, but it might not do what you want it to |
| 23:12.29 | johnx | also: it's not AI. it can't guess what you want to keep in memory at all costs and what you wish wasn't cached |
| 23:12.33 | TiagoTiago_ | what about the other tweaks the swappolube thing does? |
| 23:12.53 | lcuk | sandstorm, the swappolube package pulls together a few of these tweaks |
| 23:12.53 | sandstorm | I just want all the applications reside in RAM until its critically full, is not that rational ? |
| 23:12.58 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 23:13.00 | *** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3E15C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:13.02 | lcuk | into a nicer reinstallable, and hence reproducable |
| 23:13.03 | lcuk | package |
| 23:13.05 | lcuk | :) |
| 23:13.21 | SpeedEvil | sandstorm: It assumes that the applications are written so that the working setr can always fit in RAM. |
| 23:13.23 | sandstorm | can you enlighten me with that ? |
| 23:13.35 | johnx | sandstorm, I know that LKML thread is long, but I think it might really help you understand the situation better than we could explain it |
| 23:13.41 | GeneralAntilles | Gentle reminder to everyone to vote if you're eligible. |
| 23:13.44 | SpeedEvil | sandstorm: Plus - there are bits of code that are run once and never used again. |
| 23:13.45 | lcuk | sandstorm, because application allocations and deallocations are sometimes silly |
| 23:14.03 | sandstorm | johnx: I will read it tomorrow :) |
| 23:14.03 | lcuk | and some apps like to grab 50mb for something used rarely |
| 23:14.16 | johnx | sandstorm, then I'll answer questions about swappiness tomorrow ;) |
| 23:14.36 | sandstorm | ah allright |
| 23:14.37 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: post link! :-D |
| 23:14.48 | GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/vote/ |
| 23:14.51 | sandstorm | since it is 2 am here my mind could get confused :) |
| 23:14.58 | lcuk | whats the link for GeneralAntilles ? |
| 23:15.16 | GeneralAntilles | ~community-council |
| 23:15.20 | GeneralAntilles | ~council |
| 23:15.26 | GeneralAntilles | smacks infobot |
| 23:15.29 | lcuk | ~government |
| 23:15.29 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, government is broken. It doesn't work. It doesn't keep our streets safe and it doesn't educate our children. Government is good at only one thing: It breaks your legs, hands you a pair of crutches, and says, 'See, without us you wouldn't be able to walk.'. Libertarians need to STFU |
| 23:15.42 | lcuk | hmm |
| 23:15.46 | TiagoTiago_ | lol |
| 23:15.49 | lcuk | infobot isnt as nice as he should be |
| 23:15.53 | sandstorm | lol |
| 23:16.00 | sandstorm | Zeitgeist in action :) |
| 23:16.42 | GeneralAntilles | ~council is The Maemo Community Council is a five-person body chosen by the Maemo community. The Council's mission is to "represent the Maemo community's best interests to Nokia, and to act as a community conduit for Nokia-generated information." http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council |
| 23:16.42 | infobot | GeneralAntilles: okay |
| 23:16.47 | johnx | that's what happens when an AI like infobot rises to consciousness in an IRC channel ... |
| 23:16.47 | lcuk | no, cross channel factoids |
| 23:17.05 | sandstorm | okay ? :P |
| 23:17.10 | GeneralAntilles | Debian doesn't have a council. |
| 23:18.22 | SpeedEvil | is re-watching Babylon 5. |
| 23:18.43 | SpeedEvil | Todays was De'lens expulsion from the Grey Council. |
| 23:18.51 | SpeedEvil | I imagine it's like that. |
| 23:19.19 | TiagoTiago_ | I think a problem with the N900 is it has just enough resources to make developers feel like they don't need to worry about being carefull with resource consumption whie still not having enough resources to spare when under anything above low load |
| 23:19.29 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:19.31 | SpeedEvil | exactly |
| 23:19.43 | SpeedEvil | They test their app, and it works. |
| 23:19.45 | SpeedEvil | They ship it. |
| 23:19.46 | GeneralAntilles | Twice the RAM would work wonders. |
| 23:19.57 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@81-237-245-83-no52.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 23:19.57 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:19.59 | sandstorm | thanks for all the enlightenment, I am done for tonight, let me continue the research tomorrow :) goodnight |
| 23:20.01 | GeneralAntilles | But it should be advertised as 256MB |
| 23:20.03 | SpeedEvil | They don't test it with media player in the background, when the user decides to take a picture. |
| 23:20.13 | GeneralAntilles | and the OS should do its damndest to spoof devs into thinking it's 256MB. |
| 23:20.38 | johnx | 'night sandstorm. catch you soon |
| 23:20.48 | TiagoTiago_ | rest well |
| 23:21.22 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (infobot isnt as nice as he should be) she :-D |
| 23:21.31 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, huh? how would it do that? |
| 23:21.46 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, I'm just the idea guy. |
| 23:21.51 | GeneralAntilles | Implementation is somebody else's job. |
| 23:22.03 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, <_< |
| 23:22.14 | SpeedEvil | Ok - I'm about to vote, does anyone want my paypal address? |
| 23:22.19 | TiagoTiago_ | provind no virtual memory and forcing developers to implement virtual memory funcitonality from scratch? |
| 23:23.04 | GeneralAntilles | "Using Qt has cut our development time in half, because we can build one UI in Qt and target both Symbian^3 as well as MeeGo." |
| 23:23.08 | GeneralAntilles | groans. |
| 23:23.16 | GeneralAntilles | Just like cutting Ovi Map's dev time in half, eh? |
| 23:23.31 | *** join/#maemo incar (~incar@pa58-109-166-249.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:23.43 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago (~TiagoTiag@189-46-209-250.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:24.06 | SpeedEvil | Okaay. I go to maemo.org/vote - enter the credentials, and it's blank. |
| 23:24.06 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 23:24.37 | GeneralAntilles | Got any fancy noscript things going on? |
| 23:24.38 | SpeedEvil | Ah - redoing worked |
| 23:24.39 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 23:24.41 | GeneralAntilles | Needs a bit of js, I think. |
| 23:24.43 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, well then. |
| 23:24.59 | SpeedEvil | I am on mobile, my CISP may be doing silly things |
| 23:25.00 | *** join/#maemo villager (ovehk@knuth.ping.uio.no) |
| 23:25.39 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: now THAT's as simple as it gets, no? Just make applauncher set sane ulimits to each app started :-D |
| 23:26.17 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 23:26.28 | GeneralAntilles | grumbles about EtherPad not working. |
| 23:26.36 | SpeedEvil | The kernel is patched to detect stalls. |
| 23:26.50 | SpeedEvil | When these happen, the applications contending for resources are noted. |
| 23:27.05 | SpeedEvil | The pay of each dev is docked for every contention. |
| 23:27.14 | SpeedEvil | And all devs are given really large nerf bats. |
| 23:27.41 | TiagoTiago | how hard would it be for Nokia to makke a device that comes from the factory with dualboot MeeGo/Symbian^3 ? |
| 23:27.41 | DocScrutinizer | googles nerf bat |
| 23:28.09 | johnx | TiagoTiago, not hard from a technical standpoint. very hard from a 'getting it past marketing standpoint' |
| 23:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 23:28.25 | TiagoTiago | why? |
| 23:28.38 | *** join/#maemo kevsim (~quassel@nat/trolltech/x-eobkoggdgxvbcctv) |
| 23:28.42 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: managment is not intrerested in cool stuff. |
| 23:28.49 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 23:28.56 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: that 5% of users may be interested in. |
| 23:29.07 | johnx | because people who buy phones don't even understand the concept of an OS, let alone the concept that you could have two, but only one can run at the same time |
| 23:29.16 | SpeedEvil | Especially if it may cause the 95% of users to call support when their system is doing somerthing unexpected. |
| 23:29.37 | *** join/#maemo rosch (~quassel@nat/trolltech/x-zmermrsbpaqhsxtq) |
| 23:30.12 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, wheres is the factoid database maintained (apart from individual commands here) |
| 23:30.32 | DocScrutinizer | and 99% of users understanding the concept of OS are going W*T*F???? |
| 23:30.44 | TiagoTiago | really? I was thinking having Symbian avaible would reduce significantly the amount of whinning about the N900 |
| 23:31.22 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: it lives on a (MySQL?) db on the server where infobot lives |
| 23:31.38 | DocScrutinizer | oh maintained. No idea |
| 23:31.59 | lcuk | is there a webui to get a dump of its complete contents? |
| 23:32.13 | johnx | TiagoTiago, you should probably just ask Nokia directly |
| 23:32.14 | TiagoTiago | those who want a simple smartphone ready to run out of the boc without all the hackery would use Symbian and the rest of us would still have our rooted mobile computer |
| 23:32.31 | TiagoTiago | box* |
| 23:32.34 | DocScrutinizer | I think it must have a huge heritage from some smart linguistic project, and then gathered factiods from 200 chan over several years |
| 23:32.47 | *** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3E15C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:32.47 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (webui) nope |
| 23:33.10 | TiagoTiago | ~knowledge |
| 23:33.10 | infobot | somebody said knowledge was power |
| 23:33.14 | TiagoTiago | ... |
| 23:33.56 | SpeedEvil | holds up his anonymous token. |
| 23:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I asked Tim about mirroring the root instance of infobot, but he wasn't nterested and also said he'd not give out he whole database before he 'cleaned it for privacy reasons' |
| 23:34.10 | lindi- | wonders if one could just run both symbian and android on top of meego without any dualboot business |
| 23:34.36 | johnx | lindi-, yes. it's called virtualization. xen was working on an ARM port. so is vmware |
| 23:34.41 | TiagoTiago | having a Symbian VM would be usefull |
| 23:35.02 | johnx | that would be a lot of fun trying to figure out which process is keeping the CPU awake though |
| 23:35.12 | johnx | also, I think that's about 5 years out in terms of CPU power |
| 23:35.13 | lindi- | johnx: at least for android something lighter should work |
| 23:35.48 | TiagoTiago | Android programs mostly run with that proprietary Java-like VM, no? |
| 23:35.52 | johnx | lindi-, I'd bet not. Android tends to rely on a fairly customized kernel with patches that haven't/can't go upstream |
| 23:35.55 | lindi- | johnx: and vmware is non-free so it does not count :) |
| 23:36.14 | johnx | lindi-, they're closest to market though, or at least claim to be |
| 23:36.23 | BCMM_ | android's kernel is a fork rather than a patchset now |
| 23:36.38 | johnx | BCMM_, that makes me really sad |
| 23:36.53 | johnx | I was really hoping they could come to some agreement ... |
| 23:36.57 | TiagoTiago | itms gonna just drift away over time or are they gonna keep porting patches ito it? |
| 23:37.21 | BCMM_ | i like it - makes it easier to counter those who say "but it's linux!" |
| 23:37.31 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 23:37.39 | SpeedEvil | It is good for the android devs to be in a ghetto. |
| 23:37.43 | BCMM_ | in a way that doesn't rapidly lead to "what's libc?" |
| 23:37.47 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: vmware on ARM? o.O |
| 23:37.47 | TiagoTiago | why? |
| 23:37.48 | johnx | BCMM_, yeah, but I was hoping for being able to run a 'standard' linux distro on hardware that already had android |
| 23:37.53 | SpeedEvil | That way they can get funding for porting android-linux to devices. |
| 23:37.53 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 23:37.56 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, let me find the article |
| 23:38.24 | luke-jr | BCMM_: lol |
| 23:38.29 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-90-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 23:38.43 | luke-jr | I think MeeGo is planning to actually be a Linux OS |
| 23:38.48 | luke-jr | unlike Maemo |
| 23:39.02 | asj | chortles |
| 23:39.07 | wmarone | it is, if they can figure out how to deal with the repositories :) |
| 23:39.09 | luke-jr | johnx: OpenVZ should work? |
| 23:39.18 | FIQ|n900 | isn't maemo running on a linux kernel? |
| 23:39.23 | FIQ|n900 | as in, a real one? |
| 23:39.26 | luke-jr | FIQ|n900: a fork |
| 23:39.28 | luke-jr | like Android |
| 23:39.30 | FIQ|n900 | oh |
| 23:39.34 | lindi- | johnx: I was thinking one could just offer the api used by android apps and forget android power management |
| 23:39.34 | FIQ|n900 | screw it |
| 23:39.35 | TiagoTiago | is there a way to have the WiFi icon in thr status bar reflect the current signal quality (the amount of arcs/bars changing depending on it) ? |
| 23:40.15 | luke-jr | FIQ|n900: well, Maemo is dead. MeeGo is supposed to work with Linux. so.. |
| 23:40.17 | johnx | FIQ|n900, luke-jr is known to exagerate |
| 23:40.26 | luke-jr | johnx: not exaggerating |
| 23:40.39 | BCMM_ | uname... |
| 23:40.43 | luke-jr | Android and Maemo are on the same level as far as kernel |
| 23:41.08 | BCMM_ | maemo has a pathced kernel, like all major distros |
| 23:41.08 | johnx | luke-jr, uhm. really not. Most maemo apps can be run on a totally vanilla kernel |
| 23:41.13 | BCMM_ | patched |
| 23:41.22 | lindi- | johnx: symbian probably would require real virtualization |
| 23:41.24 | luke-jr | johnx: that's the other end of Maemo |
| 23:41.24 | TiagoTiago | Maemo still can run progs made for regular Linux with little modfication |
| 23:41.26 | BCMM_ | android has mangled some core stuff |
| 23:41.47 | BCMM_ | that upstream has rejected with a "wtf" |
| 23:41.48 | luke-jr | as I said *as far as kernel* |
| 23:41.50 | johnx | luke-jr, so you mean the N900 has a kernel with significant patches to support its hardware? aaah, why didn't you say so? ;) |
| 23:41.54 | luke-jr | BCMM_: so did Maemo |
| 23:42.03 | johnx | DocScrutinizer, http://www.itpro.co.uk/609997/video-two-operating-systems-on-one-phone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ |
| 23:42.05 | luke-jr | johnx: also userland APIs |
| 23:42.09 | luke-jr | johnx: just like Android |
| 23:42.26 | BCMM_ | correct me if i'm wrong, but maemo's kernel patches are pretty much all device driver stuff, right? |
| 23:42.26 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: thanks |
| 23:42.30 | luke-jr | BCMM_: no |
| 23:42.48 | luke-jr | BCMM_: even if you port mainline Linux 100% to the N900 hardware, it will not boot Maemo userland |
| 23:42.50 | BCMM_ | so what else is there? |
| 23:43.01 | BCMM_ | why not? |
| 23:43.03 | luke-jr | BCMM_: various userspace API changes |
| 23:43.07 | johnx | luke-jr, sorry, you're saying the maemo kernel has patches to support userland APIs. please back up that claim with examples |
| 23:43.15 | luke-jr | johnx: /proc/bootreason |
| 23:43.24 | TiagoTiago | Why they decided to not use vanilla? |
| 23:43.26 | johnx | yeah. I'm going to go ahead and call that trivial |
| 23:43.33 | johnx | next? |
| 23:43.41 | BCMM_ | that's a proc entry |
| 23:43.44 | luke-jr | johnx: non-trivial enough that Maemo will never boot with normal Linux |
| 23:43.49 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:43.57 | luke-jr | BCMM_: which is a kernel<->userspace API |
| 23:43.58 | BCMM_ | i suppose it's technically a userland api, but... |
| 23:44.01 | asj | johnx: he's held this stance for 2 years, what's the point of even discussing it? |
| 23:44.29 | BCMM_ | also, a load of device drivers on many platforms have them |
| 23:44.30 | johnx | asj, good point. I just don't like him biasing people who honestly don't know (such as FIQ|n900) |
| 23:44.43 | lindi- | luke-jr: just modify maemo to cope with lack of bootreason? |
| 23:44.58 | luke-jr | lindi-: Maemo isn't open source |
| 23:45.03 | luke-jr | that part might be, not sure |
| 23:45.03 | asj | johnx: that's why it's easier just to point a finger and laugh, it's IRC after all |
| 23:45.22 | johnx | points a finger, laughs at luke-jr for being a zealot |
| 23:45.30 | luke-jr | these are problems MeeGo is supposed to address |
| 23:45.32 | asj | high fives johnx ;) |
| 23:45.34 | johnx | asj, you were right ;) I concede the point |
| 23:45.42 | BCMM_ | what exactly does bootreason do? |
| 23:45.53 | wmarone | it tells you the cause of the last reboot |
| 23:45.58 | TiagoTiago | is Maemo not being OSS compatible with the license of the linux stuff that was used as base? |
| 23:45.58 | luke-jr | BCMM_: nothing useful |
| 23:46.11 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: it's legal in Maemo 5 AFAIK |
| 23:46.23 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: but closed still means we can't change those parts |
| 23:46.28 | johnx | anyways, channel is too distracting for now. catch you all later |
| 23:46.28 | *** part/#maemo johnx (~john@c-76-104-225-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 23:46.34 | TiagoTiago | cya |
| 23:46.49 | asj | BCMM_: it tells you why the system rebooted last, if it was a crash or normal startup |
| 23:46.54 | lindi- | luke-jr: then why worry about it? i would not recommend running closed source software anyway :) |
| 23:47.09 | wmarone | it was quite handy back in december when 32wd_to was causing excessive reboots |
| 23:47.11 | BCMM_ | luke-jr: do you consider all patchsets forks? for example, is TuxOnIce linux? |
| 23:47.12 | luke-jr | lindi-: it is impossible to not, on N900 |
| 23:47.13 | TiagoTiago | what is the license? is it more than one? |
| 23:47.46 | luke-jr | BCMM_: depends on the mergability, etc |
| 23:47.49 | lindi- | luke-jr: i heard rumors that even battery charging now works with free software |
| 23:47.53 | luke-jr | BCMM_: TuxOnIce is a branch AFAIK |
| 23:48.06 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: much is just copyright Nokia AFAIK |
| 23:48.14 | luke-jr | lindi-: is that done? |
| 23:48.16 | lindi- | luke-jr: but would be nice to hear what is missing |
| 23:48.20 | TiagoTiago | no contagious licenses? |
| 23:48.24 | luke-jr | lindi-: I know it's possible, but AFAIK nobody has actually put it into practice yet |
| 23:48.49 | lindi- | luke-jr: with some uglyish shell script afaik yrses |
| 23:49.11 | luke-jr | shell script doesn't do everything IIRC |
| 23:49.34 | lindi- | luke-jr: ok |
| 23:49.36 | TiagoTiago | lin,,, what are those non-ascii chars in your last msg? |
| 23:49.41 | luke-jr | in any case, some parts we *can't* replace, even if we had source |
| 23:49.46 | luke-jr | because the OMAP won't run it unsigned |
| 23:49.47 | TiagoTiago | ok the one before the last |
| 23:50.15 | SpeedEvil | Is it confirmed that that is in fact true? |
| 23:50.23 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: jacekowski did AFAIK |
| 23:50.30 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 23:50.38 | lindi- | luke-jr: i could live with a non-free boot loader perhaps if it was the piece you had in mind |
| 23:50.45 | luke-jr | also, MeeGo has a special NOLO for qemu |
| 23:50.53 | luke-jr | because the N900 one won't run on qemu due to signing stuff |
| 23:50.54 | lindi- | luke-jr: as a temporary compromise |
| 23:51.04 | SpeedEvil | yeah - non-free bootloadrr foresn't bother me at all |
| 23:51.06 | luke-jr | lindi-: it's annoying in practice |
| 23:51.12 | lindi- | luke-jr: sure |
| 23:51.14 | luke-jr | lindi-: we can't boot multiple kernels in any sane way right now |
| 23:51.22 | TiagoTiago | People did figure out how to install unsigned progs in that Symbian that requred it, my hope is someone will eventually do it for the N900 hardware ass well |
| 23:51.37 | luke-jr | would like to replace cellmo firmware too |
| 23:51.49 | wmarone | TiagoTiago: there's no problem running stuff on the N900, unless you're a zealot like luke-jr |
| 23:51.51 | luke-jr | think of the battery life we could save by moving some timed stuff to it |
| 23:52.13 | luke-jr | wmarone: tell that to NITdroid and MeeGo |
| 23:52.14 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Well... |
| 23:52.23 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Idle I get 6mA or so. |
| 23:52.25 | wmarone | both of which run? |
| 23:52.27 | luke-jr | wmarone: both of which require ugly hacks to boot an alternate kernel |
| 23:52.41 | wmarone | erm |
| 23:52.42 | wmarone | how so? |
| 23:52.49 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: That is 8 or so days. |
| 23:52.51 | TiagoTiago | wmarone, we can't replace things like the cell modem firmware for example |
| 23:52.55 | luke-jr | not-quite working uboot and kexec |
| 23:52.56 | wmarone | irrelevant |
| 23:53.08 | wmarone | luke-jr: uboot is a hack to make it easy to load the meego/nitdroid kernels |
| 23:53.17 | luke-jr | wmarone: it fails at making it easy so far |
| 23:53.22 | lindi- | wmarone: i do not think he qualifies as a true zealot if he runs non-free stuff in such great numbers willingly :) |
| 23:53.29 | luke-jr | you have to opent he N900 up to change kernels |
| 23:53.39 | luke-jr | lindi-: I don't. |
| 23:53.40 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 23:53.46 | wmarone | luke-jr: wow, then how the hell does power-kernel work? |
| 23:53.55 | luke-jr | wmarone: it replaces the normal Maemo one |
| 23:54.09 | luke-jr | wmarone: as mentioned earlier, Maemo won't boot with a normal Linux. |
| 23:54.13 | luke-jr | MeeGo won't boot with a Maemo kernel |
| 23:54.14 | wmarone | ... |
| 23:54.17 | luke-jr | NITdroid either |
| 23:54.25 | wmarone | you're mixing stuff up here |
| 23:54.26 | luke-jr | there is no single kernel that will run all 3 |
| 23:54.43 | wmarone | but nonetheless you can replace the kernel and boot pretty much any OS, right? |
| 23:54.55 | luke-jr | wmarone: you mean flash a different kernel every boot? no thanks |
| 23:55.08 | wmarone | oh well then get to working on u-boot |
| 23:55.12 | wmarone | they only just started, last I checked |
| 23:55.13 | TiagoTiago | how hard would it be to have a single ernel that changes itself depending on what is using it? |
| 23:55.20 | luke-jr | wouldn't have it, if NOLO wasn't locked down |
| 23:55.27 | lindi- | luke-jr: would be interesting to hear what non-free software you still depend on n900. i am planning to buy one if it becomes possible to use with free software |
| 23:55.28 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: that's what multiboot is |
| 23:55.49 | luke-jr | lindi-: there is, and never will be, an open SGX driver |
| 23:56.05 | TiagoTiago | i thought multiboot used separated partitions each with its own kernel |
| 23:56.06 | lindi- | luke-jr: never say never :) |
| 23:56.10 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: exactly |
| 23:56.11 | wmarone | luke-jr likes to speak in absolutes |
| 23:56.13 | luke-jr | lindi-: why not? |
| 23:56.28 | wmarone | luke-jr: because you don't know the future. stop speaking as if you do |
| 23:56.33 | luke-jr | lindi-: ImgTec is completely hostile to free software |
| 23:56.41 | BCMM_ | luke-jr: tuxonice is a patch |
| 23:57.00 | TiagoTiago | i said a sing.le kernel that changes itself to fit the different OS' using it |
| 23:57.05 | luke-jr | BCMM_: distributed as a patch maybe, but nobody writes patches |
| 23:57.21 | lindi- | luke-jr: anyways doesnt a plain framebuffer work? |
| 23:57.25 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: not hard at all, but I'm pretty sure nobody has interest in tht |
| 23:57.32 | TiagoTiago | why? |
| 23:57.32 | luke-jr | lindi-: for 2D perhaps |
| 23:57.45 | lindi- | luke-jr: yes, is that not enough? |
| 23:57.48 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: because it would be high maintenance |
| 23:57.49 | BCMM_ | luke-jr: is a kernel that is patched with tuxonice still linux, by your standards? |
| 23:57.54 | TiagoTiago | hm |
| 23:57.56 | luke-jr | lindi-: not for gaming |
| 23:58.03 | wmarone | lindi-: 2D isn't enough though, Maemo 5 and meego both require OpenGL ES support |
| 23:58.19 | luke-jr | BCMM_: technically no, but since it's still compatible, it is for all *practical* purposes |
| 23:58.44 | lindi- | luke-jr: ok but at least you could run a free system? |
| 23:59.08 | luke-jr | lindi-: not sure... |
| 23:59.17 | luke-jr | lindi-: been a while since I booted direct to Gentoo |
| 23:59.17 | TiagoTiago | talking about that, do you know of a program, like a demo, that shows all the potential of OpenGL EsS on the N900 ( or tries to) ? |
| 23:59.29 | TiagoTiago | ES |
| 23:59.44 | luke-jr | lindi-: usually booting Gentoo goes through Maemo's bootmenu |
| 23:59.45 | DocScrutinizer | (<luke-jr> lindi-: we can't boot multiple kernels in any sane way right now) what's wrong with chainloader e.g uBoot, to have a bootmenu to select kernels to boot from? |
| 23:59.50 | lindi- | luke-jr: I find your position bit odd |
| 23:59.56 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: it's tolerable, if it ever works |
