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| 01:03.59 | peb_ | is gone. Gone since Tue Sep 7 15:18:00 2010 |
| 01:05.35 | pigeon | on the n900, is there some way i can configure a script or a program to run when it (or X) starts up, as a user? (like, not /etc/init.d/ or /etc/event.d/) |
| 01:18.15 | asj | pigeon: what's wrong with init.d? you can use the alarmd |
| 01:18.45 | pigeon | nothing, i thought if there's a non-root way then i'll do that. |
| 01:18.53 | asj | alarmd then |
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| 01:25.21 | SpeedEvil | pigeon: There is a stupid hack. |
| 01:25.28 | SpeedEvil | pigeon: Install queen-beecon |
| 01:25.36 | SpeedEvil | pigeon: Set one to run on start |
| 01:26.19 | pigeon | heh |
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| 02:11.02 | GNUtoo|laptop | hi, |
| 02:11.07 | GNUtoo|laptop | how can I remove multiboot |
| 02:11.19 | GNUtoo|laptop | I'd like to kexec instead |
| 02:11.25 | GNUtoo|laptop | with kernel-power |
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| 02:27.07 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok I think multiboot is gone, I don't know how I did it tough |
| 02:29.41 | GNUtoo|laptop | ah no |
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| 02:30.21 | GNUtoo|laptop | ah it seem that kernel-power is booting now |
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| 02:49.42 | luke-jr | so how can I get my N900 to share its GPS? :p |
| 02:49.45 | luke-jr | over BT |
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| 02:54.34 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 02:54.43 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 02:54.44 | SpeedEvil | actually |
| 02:54.53 | SpeedEvil | you'd need a NMEA source |
| 02:54.56 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 02:55.05 | SpeedEvil | then to configure a rfcomm |
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| 03:04.23 | GNUtoo|laptop | n900 doesn't have NMEA right? |
| 03:04.39 | pronto | correct, the n900 does not have cookies |
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| 03:08.43 | SpeedEvil | GNUtoo|laptop: not natively - there are some people doing it though |
| 03:08.49 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
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| 03:54.36 | ShadSEC | hey |
| 03:57.06 | Macer | hm. new nitdroid |
| 03:57.09 | Macer | wonder if the modem support is in it |
| 03:59.12 | luke-jr | I would presume so |
| 03:59.17 | luke-jr | maybe even my GPS code |
| 04:00.01 | Macer | wow |
| 04:00.10 | Macer | that would be neet. working modem with voice calling or data only? |
| 04:00.15 | Macer | i know they were having problems with the modem's audio |
| 04:00.20 | luke-jr | no idea |
| 04:00.32 | luke-jr | voice calling to me means SIP |
| 04:00.43 | Macer | HAHA... fair point |
| 04:00.59 | Macer | well i hardly ever use actual cell phone calling but you never know |
| 04:01.11 | Macer | i'm installing it now so i guess i'll see in a minute |
| 04:06.05 | Macer | new splash too huh? neet |
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| 04:07.38 | Macer | hm. i have a signal bar at the top :) but no 3G symbol |
| 04:08.56 | Macer | hm. it's running on edge |
| 04:10.35 | Macer | doesn't seem to be working tho |
| 04:15.06 | luke-jr | Macer: probably your fault |
| 04:15.21 | luke-jr | btw my desktop monitor is dead :( |
| 04:15.26 | luke-jr | so I have to use this lame mac |
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| 04:41.15 | Macer | crap |
| 04:41.23 | Macer | can't seem to get the APNs to work |
| 04:41.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: ???: sorry, have to say NOLO on 'U' definitely does NOT load or consume any energy from USB, on a relatively full battery. So it actually DIScharges |
| 04:41.39 | Macer | i try adding one and setting hte tmob info but after trying to save it .. it just sort of disappears |
| 04:44.05 | Macer | eiting the mnc seems to break it |
| 04:44.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: au contraire I guess holding device in 'u' is a way to get beyond sane discharge limit |
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| 04:47.51 | slonopotamus | is apt-cache search just broken? |
| 04:50.42 | slonopotamus | http://codepad.org/0NiXivxu i can only understand two of matches (openntpd and python-twisted-news [because it has nntp in description]) |
| 04:50.55 | slonopotamus | s/ of // |
| 05:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: it seems to match weird things as well, maybe install scripts or dunno what |
| 05:01.00 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: from user POV it's broken. |
| 05:03.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | file a ticket upstream |
| 05:03.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | I had similar thing one time |
| 05:04.06 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer51: already talking to them. i hoped i'm doing smth wrong :) |
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| 05:59.54 | X-Fade | Morning |
| 06:00.06 | kwtm | morning, Crossfade. |
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| 06:07.28 | `Francesca_Lucch | hey guys is there an mp3 tagger for n900 |
| 06:08.58 | Corsac | yes |
| 06:09.27 | Corsac | `Francesca_Lucch: MussOrgSky |
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| 06:36.59 | DocScrutinizer | morning |
| 06:37.25 | DocScrutinizer | aiui council elections are open since yesterday? |
| 06:38.18 | merlin1991 | morning Doc |
| 06:38.24 | DocScrutinizer | mo merlin1991 |
| 06:40.07 | DocScrutinizer | I'd like to know how many days *after* elections are opened (even closed?) it's supposed the tokens/balots are sent to the last member who would have been allowed to vote |
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| 06:44.36 | merlin1991 | hm I have 3 karma on maemo.org from activity in "groups" wtf? I don't remember doing anything :D |
| 06:44.42 | DocScrutinizer | from a mail I kindly got a forward: >>Voting will run from September 16th 00:00 UTC until September 22 2010, 23:59 UTC.<< Mail sent to original addressee: 2010-09-16 10:14 - me missing any mail, and my calendar showing me it's 17th of September |
| 06:46.31 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: ^^^ ? |
| 06:46.53 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Your words don't make sense, please rephrase? |
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| 06:48.08 | DocScrutinizer | elections opened since yesterday, some others got mail with token after(!) elections opened, I'm still missing token to vote. How's this gong to be sorted? |
| 06:48.32 | toggles_w | DocScrutinizer: I'll sell you mine |
| 06:48.42 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Do you have enough karma? |
| 06:48.54 | DocScrutinizer | I'd guess 364 is enough? |
| 06:49.03 | X-Fade | Yes, it should. |
| 06:49.37 | X-Fade | Everybody got mailed yesterday. |
| 06:49.56 | X-Fade | So if you didn't get yours, you should ping dneary. |
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| 06:50.08 | DocScrutinizer | isn't that odd to send out tokens *after* election is opened? |
| 06:50.12 | X-Fade | He can look up your token or resend it. |
| 06:50.30 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Details. What is a few hours on a week. |
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| 06:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | as you see in my case, there's good reason to send such mails out with good advance in time, so all possible issues can get sorted until election period STARTS |
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| 06:52.58 | DocScrutinizer | a lot of community members might not even have noticed about council elections, and now have to *start* considering what's all that about and what they're going to do |
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| 06:56.21 | DocScrutinizer | hell not even I knew about elections opened yesterday, until this morning some guy asked me what's this mail he got is all about and what he shall do now |
| 06:57.59 | DocScrutinizer | I'd honestly suggest to postpone closing of elections by one week |
| 06:58.55 | DocScrutinizer | and make damn sure those mails *really* got out and delivered |
| 06:59.40 | DocScrutinizer | all of them |
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| 07:01.14 | DocScrutinizer | after running the mail template thru several spam filters to make sure it won't trigger |
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| 07:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | also making sure it's not a fsckdup Nokia "from:" addr which is known to make postmasters moan and swear and trigger greylisting or sth, due to borked header details (don't ask me for details, as I am no postmaster and you don't want me to quote the swearword my postmaster uttered when I asked him why Nokia mail never gets thru) |
| 07:05.06 | Shadikka | I might actually be interested to hear the words, just out of... academic interest. |
| 07:05.21 | DocScrutinizer | (and no, this can't be the reason my mail is missing, Nokia is on the whitelist now) |
| 07:05.38 | Stskeeps | maemo.org mail != nokia infra, we don't run exchange |
| 07:05.39 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 07:05.46 | johnx | postmasters filter on 'from:' at their own peril |
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| 07:06.05 | johnx | also: mail is totally *&#$ed up as a protocol in general |
| 07:06.09 | DocScrutinizer | it's not from, it's some reverse DNS lookup that failed |
| 07:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 07:07.16 | johnx | but a reverse lookup fail of the domain in the 'from:'? or a reverse lookup fail in one of the hosts that sent it? |
| 07:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not a postmaster, and I didn't ask for all the gory details |
| 07:09.26 | DocScrutinizer | and for the records: my postmaster started with "FUCK! those bloody idiots..." |
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| 07:11.50 | mece | hello |
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| 07:17.50 | lolloo | I have comic widget ver 0.4 |
| 07:18.03 | lolloo | but it doesnt how me the latest strip |
| 07:18.16 | lolloo | it shows me the start of 2010 |
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| 07:18.25 | lolloo | how can I fix that? |
| 07:18.37 | crashanddie | comic widget? |
| 07:19.05 | crashanddie | it shows you the latest jokes from Eddie Murphy? |
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| 07:20.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | balmer rap as comic strip :-P |
| 07:20.46 | lolloo | dilbert strip |
| 07:21.03 | lolloo | but doesn't take me to latest |
| 07:21.11 | lolloo | why? |
| 07:21.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | developersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopers |
| 07:22.15 | lolloo | why comic widget doest show me latest one? |
| 07:22.30 | lolloo | it shows me 1 year old strips |
| 07:22.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | lolloo: we all heard you |
| 07:22.46 | merlin1991 | wants an xkcd widget :) |
| 07:23.16 | Scelt | including title |
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| 07:27.09 | lolloo | I love comic strips |
| 07:27.21 | lolloo | I love comic widget for n900 |
| 07:27.31 | lolloo | comic widget... mmm |
| 07:27.44 | lolloo | why doesn't it show me last strip by date |
| 07:27.56 | lolloo | mmm maybe something missing |
| 07:28.07 | lolloo | comic strip widget is awesome |
| 07:28.16 | lolloo | all comics imcluded |
| 07:28.29 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.164.159.190) |
| 07:28.32 | lolloo | mmm am looking at dilbert comic strips |
| 07:28.47 | lolloo | using comic widget on my n900 |
| 07:29.10 | lolloo | why wouldn't it show me latest dilbert comic strip? |
| 07:29.29 | lolloo | mmm I wounder why it wouldn't show me last strip |
| 07:29.35 | lolloo | of dilbert... |
| 07:29.52 | *** join/#maemo kerio92 (kerio92@unaffiliated/kerio92) |
| 07:29.57 | FIQ|n900 | interesting... uhm.. song? |
| 07:30.21 | *** join/#maemo ag0ny (~sascha@khan.procar.de) |
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| 07:31.44 | lolloo | comic strip |
| 07:31.55 | lolloo | dilbert comic strip is awesome |
| 07:32.08 | FIQ|n900 | k |
| 07:32.13 | lolloo | I am looking at it using comic widget |
| 07:32.19 | lolloo | on my N900 |
| 07:32.27 | lolloo | including other comics |
| 07:32.33 | FIQ|n900 | i'm pretty sure you said that before |
| 07:32.36 | *** join/#maemo fredix (~fredix@2a01:e35:2f38:d790:218:2dff:fe00:173) |
| 07:32.38 | lolloo | like pc and pixel comic strip |
| 07:32.58 | lolloo | and many others |
| 07:33.12 | lolloo | it uploads automatically from site |
| 07:33.19 | lolloo | and bring it to your fone |
| 07:33.25 | lolloo | on desktop |
| 07:33.32 | FIQ|n900 | right |
| 07:34.20 | lolloo | there is a griffiti comic strip too |
| 07:34.24 | lolloo | it awesome |
| 07:34.29 | lolloo | check it out |
| 07:34.33 | lolloo | funny as hell |
| 07:34.35 | FIQ|n900 | cba |
| 07:34.41 | FIQ|n900 | afk |
| 07:34.56 | lolloo | is having fun. |
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| 07:44.14 | lolloo | whats the best themme for my N900? |
| 07:44.28 | merlin1991 | the one you personally like? |
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| 07:44.38 | lolloo | yes sir |
| 07:44.48 | lolloo | any recommendation? |
| 07:44.55 | psycho_oreos | theme = tastes |
| 07:45.12 | lolloo | I want a theme that changes the all icons |
| 07:45.23 | merlin1991 | psycho_oreos, I kinda tried to say that :D |
| 07:45.25 | lolloo | and even motions in menu |
| 07:45.48 | lolloo | whatever give me your recommendation please |
| 07:46.18 | lolloo | give give |
| 07:46.23 | T-Co | merlin1991, I have Okuda, which I bet, will share opinions :) |
| 07:46.39 | psycho_oreos | merlin1991, hehe, too bad I beat you to the buzzer :) |
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| 07:46.57 | lolloo | I have D-theme smooth blue |
| 07:47.10 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 07:47.11 | lolloo | but it doesnt convert everything |
| 07:47.11 | T-Co | Sorry, I meant lolloo ^^^ |
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| 07:47.23 | oracle | maemo is a nokia right? |
| 07:47.25 | merlin1991 | :) |
| 07:47.27 | oracle | what about the booklet |
| 07:47.31 | oracle | who has a booklet |
| 07:47.41 | T-Co | lolloo, Humanity changes most of the icons |
| 07:47.42 | lolloo | I will try your recommendation, T-Co |
| 07:47.46 | merlin1991 | I'm using the nokia n-series theme :P |
| 07:47.48 | lolloo | nice! |
| 07:48.16 | lolloo | Humanity is in repo, right? |
| 07:48.37 | T-Co | I think so. At least in extras-devel |
| 07:48.49 | psycho_oreos | I use the default theme, tried that dark theme and I didn't like it one bit (black and white).. the use of greyscale colouring I like |
| 07:49.04 | lolloo | T-Co, may I recommend for you? |
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| 07:49.23 | T-Co | lolloo, Shoot |
| 07:49.31 | lolloo | try blue-sky |
| 07:49.56 | lolloo | changes Icons and menu motion too! |
| 07:50.04 | mece | anyone wandered in the ways of QML around? |
| 07:50.09 | T-Co | Maybe some day, I'm now enjoying the retro-feel of Okuda |
| 07:50.17 | lolloo | awesome |
| 07:50.45 | lolloo | is going to check Okuda theme |
| 07:51.47 | T-Co | I really enjou the sounds in that theme. |
| 07:52.01 | mece | wanders off to #qt |
| 07:52.12 | T-Co | I should find ringtones and im tones to go with it, |
| 07:52.15 | lolloo | wow it has sounds! omg |
| 07:52.43 | lolloo | wow it has sounds! omg |
| 07:52.51 | lolloo | oops hehehe |
| 07:54.26 | lolloo | T-Co, where did you get Okuda theme from? couldnt find it in repo. |
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| 07:56.59 | T-Co | lolloo, I think it's from extras-devel. Do you have that catalogue enabled? |
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| 07:57.36 | lolloo | Yes I think so, |
| 07:57.55 | lolloo | will try googling for it. no worries |
| 07:59.55 | *** join/#maemo tet (~tet@bobafett.staff.proxad.net) |
| 08:01.40 | lolloo | here you go |
| 08:01.42 | lolloo | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58667 |
| 08:03.53 | lolloo | awesome right T-Co ? |
| 08:04.50 | psycho_oreos | looks like pacman's theme |
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| 08:05.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | Jaffa: please read my rant on backscroll (100min ago) |
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| 08:05.53 | lolloo | hahaha |
| 08:06.00 | lolloo | hhhhhhhhaaa |
| 08:06.01 | parrot42 | hello, is there a way to see the velocity/bearing in Qt Simulator when simulating for the N900 device? |
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| 08:21.03 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: They're all supposed to be sent at the same time. |
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| 08:25.39 | Jaffa | dneary: X-Fade: sounds like there may be mail queue blockage or something? |
| 08:26.14 | dneary | Jaffa, I don't know what the issue is. I have a few people asking me for tokens. |
| 08:26.22 | dneary | I got email fine, personally |
| 08:26.46 | Jaffa | dneary: Ditto. |
| 08:27.12 | X-Fade | Mail host is not correct, so some providers will bounce when they are more strict. |
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| 08:32.52 | MNZ | good morning #maemo |
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| 08:34.29 | Stskeeps | morn |
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| 08:36.31 | ieatlint | man, the more i look into meego, the crappier it seems |
| 08:36.44 | MNZ | :( |
| 08:37.25 | lolloo | maemo FTW |
| 08:37.54 | Stskeeps | MNZ: you highlighted me yesterday? (was asleep, sorry) |
| 08:37.54 | ieatlint | there are a handful of things that actually look interesting, but the meego site is so crappy |
| 08:38.31 | ieatlint | want to develop for meego handsets? sure, but only with qemu, and btw you need a nokia n900 in order to get the image ... |
| 08:39.13 | Stskeeps | ieatlint: we've actually fixed that problem ow |
| 08:39.13 | Stskeeps | now |
| 08:39.35 | Stskeeps | nolo gp is redistributable and we had the gles test running on the qemu image |
| 08:39.52 | ieatlint | want to develop for a meego netbook? well, once again, pretty much just linux... and you can either install it on a netbook, do a chroot environment that intel tells me requires the host machine have an intel gma, or use virtualbox -- but oh, btw, if you use virtualbox, you can't actually use the meego ui |
| 08:39.53 | ieatlint | just twm |
| 08:39.55 | Stskeeps | we're not idiots, we do see those kind of problems |
| 08:39.56 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 08:40.05 | ieatlint | no, it's not fixed |
| 08:40.14 | Stskeeps | ok, it's fixed but not released. |
| 08:40.23 | ieatlint | ... |
| 08:40.26 | ieatlint | thanks? :P |
| 08:40.29 | MNZ | Stskeeps, nvm :) was just commenting on the state of meego |
| 08:41.28 | Stskeeps | ieatlint: the chroot issue (atom) i fully agree with.. the host machine being intel gma is a stupid phrasing, technically you can drop in your own libGL |
| 08:41.38 | Stskeeps | people already had meego running on nvidia, so |
| 08:41.55 | ieatlint | yeah, i just spent the past 3 days at meego events being run by intel |
| 08:42.04 | Stskeeps | MNZ: i don't personally share GAN's opinions - how's your kernel work going? |
| 08:42.12 | Stskeeps | ieatlint: ah, my condolences |
| 08:42.15 | ieatlint | not too impressed.. |
| 08:42.19 | *** part/#maemo wao (wao@meine.xn--nck9azb.jp) |
| 08:42.25 | ieatlint | Stskeeps: eh, open bar |
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| 08:42.40 | Stskeeps | ah, that always helps |
| 08:42.45 | dneary | Jaffa: We're looking into it with X-Fade |
| 08:42.45 | florian | good morning |
| 08:42.52 | Stskeeps | ieatlint: most people would be developing using qt creator and MADDE though and qt simulator |
| 08:42.55 | ieatlint | they violated the gpl too |
| 08:42.59 | Stskeeps | oh? |
| 08:43.04 | ieatlint | handed out usb flash drives with meego images on them |
| 08:43.06 | ieatlint | no source :P |
| 08:43.07 | dneary | It appears that the mail headers were showing a funny Return-path, and some mailers were rejecting it because of that |
| 08:43.16 | dneary | http://pastebin.ca/1942673 |
| 08:43.28 | Stskeeps | ieatlint: well, you can do a written request.. can't recall how that part sounds again |
| 08:43.37 | MNZ | Stskeeps, well meego folk are confusing, no offense :P but I'm staying with maemo for a while, however futile that may seem. |
| 08:43.39 | ieatlint | haha |
| 08:43.52 | ieatlint | i'm half tempted, but then i remember i'm trying to not be that asshole |
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| 08:45.22 | MNZ | Stskeeps, the kernel work is pretty much over, a GUI is needed for the EQ though and machine-level drivers are needed to make use of the filter on each specific machine (so for example on n900 we use it for speaker protection, etc) |
| 08:45.47 | MNZ | Which reminds me, is meego using PA as well? |
| 08:45.53 | Stskeeps | MNZ: i think there's a lot of different opinions and a lot of different people who people are unsure of where they are in charge of, makes discussions frustrating (even for someone working on the project). if we ignore the meego part completely, we have audio experts from n900 kernel in #meego-arm and kernel maintainers, so could be cool to hear about your work |
| 08:46.06 | Stskeeps | yes, we are - no other way when it comes to cmtspeech |
| 08:46.51 | Stskeeps | MNZ: we kinda have to work with upstream linux kernel, the meego part is 'just' packaging |
| 08:46.53 | Jaffa | dneary: Cool |
| 08:47.05 | MNZ | Stskeeps, I understand. Just another distro |
| 08:47.21 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
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| 08:47.42 | Stskeeps | we would be interested in speaker protection of the sole reason the current one is closed source, to my knowlege. |
| 08:47.45 | Stskeeps | dge |
| 08:47.46 | Jaffa | dneary: Yeah, I saw that as the Sender and thought it was some CDN thing |
| 08:48.00 | pexi | any good source for unofficial qtwrt device api? for example, how networking is accessible |
| 08:48.13 | Jaffa | dneary: Presumably the logs can be grepped to get the ones rejected and then resend (and/or regenerate)? |
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| 08:48.26 | RST38h | Stskeeps: AFAIK the current speaker protection is simply a frequency filter |
| 08:48.35 | MNZ | Stskeeps, I was planning to push to get this into upstream, but I wanted to make sure it's pretty clean first, and there are still some changes to make |
| 08:48.43 | Stskeeps | MNZ: :nod: if you want reviews, we're here :) |
| 08:48.48 | X-Fade | Jaffa: That is not possible as it bypassed the mailer and sent directly to the smarthost. |
| 08:48.51 | MNZ | RST38h, yeah it's a very simple filter. |
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| 08:49.32 | X-Fade | Jaffa: So a gentle "Reminder" mailing would probably be the best solution. |
| 08:49.34 | MNZ | I dumped sine wave sweep from 500hz to 0 into PA and checked out the output. I could easily replicate the filter using the audio codec's features |
| 08:50.23 | Stskeeps | so it sits on top of the current audio codec/driver for n900? |
| 08:51.19 | MNZ | Stskeeps, the audio codec does the register setting and all that. How/what you use the filter for depends on the 'machine' driver (alsa SoC drivers are 3 parts, codec -> platform -> machine) |
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| 08:51.36 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
| 08:51.56 | MNZ | so write now I use the n900 driver (rx51.c) to set the filter up for speaker protection and turn it on automatically if speaker output starts |
| 08:52.01 | MNZ | s/write/right/ |
| 08:52.24 | Stskeeps | we have jarkko nikula / jhnikula sitting in #meego-arm and i think he was very involved with the audio driver in fremantle program and now meego/n900 |
| 08:52.41 | MNZ | yeah, I've seen his signature in a lot of places :D |
| 08:52.51 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
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| 08:54.49 | dneary | Jaffa, Not really |
| 08:54.55 | MNZ | Stskeeps, my main aim though is getting rid of PA, and I *think* it's possible, though not that easy, and will save a whole bunch of CPU/power. Problem is, I think a lot of people disagree with that |
| 08:54.58 | dneary | Because they're not being rejected in Maemo |
| 08:55.08 | dneary | I'm going to re-send the lot with a "reminder". |
| 08:55.31 | Stskeeps | MNZ: i think PA is here to stay, cos meego works on multiple devices |
| 08:55.45 | Stskeeps | MNZ: but if anything can be offloaded to codecs this is obviously good |
| 08:56.27 | X-Fade | MNZ: Also think of audio routing for BT etc. |
| 08:57.45 | MNZ | X-Fade, quite frankly I haven't looked into that at all yet. But so far everything that faced us was solvable with ALSA plugins + hooks. |
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| 08:58.16 | MNZ | Stskeeps, PA works over ALSA, so that's sort of a moot point IMHO |
| 08:58.44 | Stskeeps | MNZ: :nod: either way, i'm no expert |
| 08:59.07 | Stskeeps | MNZ: i would know who to put you in a room with to discuss these things though |
| 09:00.03 | MNZ | Stskeeps, that would be awesome. DocScrutinizer is also quite involved with this and I think he would like to join said discussion |
| 09:00.39 | Stskeeps | MNZ: :nod: it's kinda a higher level discussion than 'just' n900 when it comes to PA |
| 09:00.40 | timeless_pidgin | So, i just discovered there's an election. I discovered it by reading scrollback for a channel i rarely if ever read in that form. |
| 09:01.06 | timeless_pidgin | As i'm on vacation, i'm not even sure i could find an email in my mailbox... |
| 09:01.30 | *** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3B7D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:01.46 | Stskeeps | MNZ: what was the page for your work? |
| 09:01.50 | Stskeeps | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:02.19 | MNZ | Stskeeps, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/aic34-eq/ |
| 09:02.35 | MNZ | Stskeeps, (most everything is outdated, except for the repo) |
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| 09:02.47 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
| 09:03.01 | timeless_pidgin | kicks pidgin for its totally broken painting while scrolling in fullscreen |
| 09:03.04 | MNZ | I dunno why I parenthesized that 0_o |
| 09:03.17 | MNZ | timeless_pidgin, 25 |
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| 09:06.52 | timeless_pidgin | Mnz: thanks. I don't think i'll spend one on pidgin atm. |
| 09:07.39 | Stskeeps | MNZ: not sure if he's around at the moment (typical lunchtime atm), but at least introductions have been initiated :) |
| 09:08.05 | timeless_pidgin | For pidgin, the font/insert/smile/attention bar should be a single button in the same row as the user text line. Tapping it should bring up an overlay which doesn't affect layout and contains the current row of buttons. |
| 09:08.12 | MNZ | Stskeeps, thanks :) appreciate the effort |
| 09:09.12 | Stskeeps | http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel is our current kernel 'tree' (we upstream from here and sync with upstream releases) |
| 09:09.16 | timeless_pidgin | And the channel list should probably be an overlay of the input area on the right side, tapping it could bring up an overlay of 60 percent of the screen width... |
| 09:09.41 | timeless_pidgin | And there should be an *easy* way to pick a much smaller font size.. Grr |
| 09:10.09 | timeless_pidgin | Oh, and the channel topic should share a row w/ the channel name ! |
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| 09:20.25 | Jaffa | dneary: X-Fade: sounds sensible |
| 09:21.05 | dneary | Jaffa, Thanks :) |
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| 09:21.20 | dneary | Should be done by lunchtime (I don't want to resend tokens to people who have voted already) |
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| 09:34.51 | tet | Please, can someone help me getting some informations about the icon used in Maemo ? I don't understand where to find them or use them :( |
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| 09:38.57 | Carneque | hey tet |
| 09:39.03 | Carneque | which icon? |
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| 09:40.29 | tet | Carneque, I spent hours trying to understand an easy way to use any of the maemo default icons (stock icons) listed here http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Maemo_5_Icon_List/ |
| 09:40.50 | *** join/#maemo sp3001 (~chatzilla@62.237.154.77) |
| 09:42.25 | Carneque | I'm taking a look here |
| 09:42.58 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@77.30.6.68) |
| 09:43.50 | Carneque | The directory ../icons contains the folders with the related sized icons inside. |
| 09:44.24 | Carneque | So you'd just write your program around utilizing the stock item you want I believe |
| 09:45.51 | *** join/#maemo vanadis (~vanadis@cust.static.84-253-9-113.cybernet.ch) |
| 09:46.09 | tet | What is the exact path of this icon folder ? |
| 09:47.50 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@130.sub-75-209-59.myvzw.com) |
| 09:48.01 | Carneque | turning my phone on |
| 09:50.03 | RST38h | "iPad sales are slashing laptop sales by as much as 50 per cent, according to the boss of US retailer Best Buy." |
| 09:50.08 | RST38h | Bye bye netbooks |
| 09:51.10 | *** join/#maemo AminCX (~chatzilla@91.99.161.92) |
| 09:51.33 | AminCX | my n900 is not charged any more and there is no sense when i connect the charger/usb connector to it, |
| 09:51.34 | Carneque | that's awesome for laptop buyers |
| 09:51.40 | AminCX | until 2 hour a go when device was turned off, if i connect the charger/usb it started up but now nothing will happened anymore, any help or suggestion will be welcome. |
| 09:53.15 | *** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p5DF3B7D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:53.31 | tet | Carneque, Think i just found the folder... /n900/home/opt/usr/share/icons |
| 09:53.35 | Carneque | hey tet, did you search through the terminal? |
| 09:53.51 | tet | Carneque, My main problem was that i didn't want to point directly to the file |
| 09:54.10 | Carneque | why not? |
| 09:54.27 | tet | and use more something like "image = gtk.image_new_from_stock(hildon.GENERAL_ADD, gtk.ICON_SIZE_BUTTON)" |
| 09:54.28 | *** join/#maemo bons (~bons@chello084114037115.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 09:54.43 | tet | Because if in further release they modify the path :/ i'am screwed |
| 09:55.00 | tet | And to save me the trouble of finding files on N900 without a proper search tool :/ |
| 09:55.22 | merlin1991 | find in xterm? |
| 09:55.42 | Carneque | what folder was /n900 in, and why isn't that path written on the Maemo 5 icon list page? |
| 09:55.45 | tet | yeah it's what i finally did |
| 09:56.12 | Carneque | so there is no bash command loc |
| 09:56.18 | Carneque | I just got this |
| 09:56.19 | Carneque | phone |
| 09:56.26 | tet | no locate sadly :( |
| 09:56.46 | tet | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:57.03 | Carneque | oh okay |
| 09:57.17 | tet | I really don't get what the point is to make a full icon list and don't put the actual folder of these |
| 09:57.18 | Carneque | There isn't an extension pack yet with additional commands? |
| 09:57.45 | Carneque | whoever wrote that page should definetly consider adding it |
| 09:58.03 | *** join/#maemo ccooke (~ccooke@granite.earth.gkhs.net) |
| 09:58.09 | *** join/#maemo HarryS (H@harry.lu) |
| 09:59.43 | merlin1991 | well a find / -name *.png | grep <appname> shows the paths quite fast though :D |
| 10:00.45 | tet | merlin1991, in any case there is a bash command to do things. Sure i agree. Yet common utility folder like the icon one should be documented. |
| 10:00.53 | tet | and i still miss the locate command :'( |
| 10:01.02 | *** join/#maemo chibi-taiga (~Lucchini@i7155.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 10:01.10 | chibi-taiga | hey guys |
| 10:01.17 | Carneque | okay... in findutils-gnu's description |
| 10:01.24 | chibi-taiga | is there an replacement for moonlight? |
| 10:01.37 | Carneque | it says 'locate' has been split off into a seperate packageg |
| 10:01.49 | tet | sunlight ? :/ |
| 10:01.54 | Carneque | so it may exist in another package |
| 10:01.57 | chibi-taiga | .... |
| 10:02.21 | chibi-taiga | moonlight thw linux ver for microsoft silverlight |
| 10:02.27 | chibi-taiga | the* |
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| 10:27.07 | crashanddie | why the hell would anyone want silverlight running on Linux? |
| 10:27.14 | crashanddie | Even if it's Open Source, it's utterly crap technology |
| 10:27.26 | crashanddie | It's like Flash designed by crackwhores |
| 10:27.30 | *** join/#maemo toggles (~irssi_tog@b05s35le.corenetworks.net) |
| 10:27.36 | Surfa | while many web-pages show content with it |
| 10:27.41 | Surfa | simple as that |
| 10:27.49 | crashanddie | define:"many" |
| 10:27.59 | crashanddie | There's many websites that use HTML/CSS to display shit |
| 10:28.25 | Surfa | i could paste you plenty of finnish sites with silverlight content but you wouldn't agree anyway, so I'm not going to |
| 10:28.40 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 10:30.42 | crashanddie | well, then there's plenty of finnish idiots! |
| 10:31.05 | crashanddie | Or at least, managers with too much grip on what their codemonkeys have to do. |
| 10:31.15 | *** join/#maemo janin (~janin@213.250.30.129) |
| 10:31.24 | Surfa | everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot? :) |
| 10:31.46 | Stskeeps | that's pretty much his approach, yes |
| 10:31.47 | Stskeeps | ;) |
| 10:31.58 | crashanddie | Not at all |
| 10:32.12 | crashanddie | Anyone who willfully accepts silverlight as a valid technology is an idiot |
| 10:32.24 | Surfa | you prefer flash? |
| 10:32.32 | crashanddie | I hate Flash with a passion, I don't call people who use/develop in it idiots |
| 10:32.34 | Surfa | i thought flash was source of all evil |
| 10:34.19 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-1-119.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:35.26 | lcuk | crashanddie, "why the hell would anyone.." |
| 10:35.29 | lcuk | its open source, we can |
| 10:35.37 | lcuk | and even if not |
| 10:35.41 | crashanddie | I didn't say you couldn't |
| 10:35.45 | crashanddie | I ask why you would. |
| 10:35.46 | lcuk | just because you dont think its useful |
| 10:35.51 | lcuk | others do |
| 10:36.20 | crashanddie | well, then give me a proper rationale around the use of silverlight |
| 10:36.26 | lcuk | i dont have one |
| 10:36.30 | lcuk | i am not a silverlight person |
| 10:36.34 | lcuk | but others are |
| 10:37.27 | lcuk | ask me same question about why I care about gtk/hildon on meego etc and I might have more to say (and have done) |
| 10:37.28 | crashanddie | then don't bitch about my bitches -- I asked "Why the hell would you want it?", so unless there is a good reason to use silverlight rather than technology x (be it flash, html 5, whatever), I don't see the point of pointing out there are plenty of users or plenty of websites. |
| 10:37.40 | crashanddie | s/bitches/bitching/ |
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| 10:40.37 | Surfa | well, i don't need to ask people why should i use something, typically i try to learn if it's useful for me or not.. if not, then I'm simply not going to use it and not telling everyone that it's crap and it shouldn't be ever on the linux |
| 10:40.41 | *** join/#maemo Carneque (~bigbabyje@ip66-110-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 10:41.07 | Surfa | i personally would like to see silverlight on linux as well, asap please :) |
| 10:42.22 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 10:44.33 | psycho_oreos | ask steve ballmer |
| 10:47.53 | *** join/#maemo HarryS (H@harry.lu) |
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| 10:51.23 | lcuk | hmmm frals |
| 10:51.29 | lcuk | if i send an animated gif |
| 10:51.39 | lcuk | via you know what, does it play at the other end? |
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| 11:00.26 | Macer | luke-jr: you have tmob? |
| 11:03.41 | *** join/#maemo __a|[albsk] (~albert@2002:82ec:7df4:c:226:bbff:fe10:4ec0) |
| 11:06.28 | crashanddie | Surfa: damn, you're thick. |
| 11:06.44 | Surfa | crashanddie, like talking to a mirror right? |
| 11:08.43 | crashanddie | and damn, windows 7 "first run" takes a bloody long time |
| 11:08.45 | crashanddie | Surfa: not really, I just get reasonably pissed when people put words in my mouth. |
| 11:10.41 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: jacekowski: ShadowJK: ok, some 7h of device hooked up to charger and kept in NOLO "u" were enough to get 3.07V on battery |
| 11:12.05 | th3hate | any way to fix a corrupted internal memory (eMMC) ? it says device storage format unsupported |
| 11:12.06 | DocScrutinizer | so definitely: NOLO is NOT charging. Recommendations to keep device in 'u' mode to recover from flat battery are absolutely contraproductive |
| 11:12.26 | DocScrutinizer | th3hate: reflash eMMC |
| 11:16.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: ^^^ s/ Stskeeps / SpeedEvil / |
| 11:16.41 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@89.221.15.146) |
| 11:16.55 | th3hate | DocScrutinizer, flash valilla emmc with same flags as rootfs? |
| 11:16.57 | *** join/#maemo har (59d45bc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.212.91.200) |
| 11:17.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | flash both. Which flags? |
| 11:17.50 | SpeedEvil | Interesting |
| 11:17.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~flashing |
| 11:17.54 | infobot | rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 11:17.54 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:18.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: NOLO is ignoring 'u' and enters charging mode with flashing yellow now on flat bat |
| 11:18.52 | merlin1991 | th3hate, afaik, flash emmc without rebootflag, and then rootfs |
| 11:19.12 | har | I can't get the app manager to work over my wi-fi (it works on ther wifi-s). Any suggestions why? I tried turning the firewall off, it doesn't help. |
| 11:19.19 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 11:19.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | merlin1991: exactly |
| 11:20.01 | SpeedEvil | har: I would install rootsh - then do apt-gert install fmms - or something - to get a reasble log |
| 11:20.04 | SpeedEvil | readable |
| 11:20.21 | SpeedEvil | har: What do you mean by doesn't work - what doesn't work |
| 11:20.28 | th3hate | merlin1991, reboot is -R ? |
| 11:20.53 | merlin1991 | yes |
| 11:21.12 | har | it doesn't download files and doesn't update itself. Internet works in browser. |
| 11:21.31 | lcuk | great post by EIPI: "All the talk about the legacy devices (e.g. N8X0, 770) by the candidates in that Q&A I did got me recharging my N800 for the first time in months - like 3 months! I updated to the latest Community SSU, installed Telescope and Diablo5 theme. And WOW - another highlight for me! That screen size, form factor and now with these little bells and whistles makes this thing so refreshed! Thank you to the devels of Telescope, Diablo |
| 11:21.31 | lcuk | 5 and the Community SSU. My N800 feels invigorated." http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=818528#post818528 |
| 11:21.58 | mece | lcuk, pretty cool! |
| 11:23.43 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-120-8-143.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 11:24.06 | rmrfchik | has n810 as well |
| 11:24.14 | rmrfchik | don't know how to use it now :( |
| 11:26.46 | *** join/#maemo Patina (~tomas@1385158752.dhcp.dbnet.dk) |
| 11:29.31 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se) |
| 11:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | har: repo servers might be temporarily down |
| 11:32.16 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 11:36.28 | Carneque | Is there a way to take a screen shot on the N900? |
| 11:36.52 | bleader | at least, there is a plugin |
| 11:37.09 | visz | ctrl-shift-p |
| 11:37.10 | bleader | you can start it, press camera key and it takes a screenshot, can't remember the name through |
| 11:37.18 | DocScrutinizer | Carneque: ctrl-sh-P |
| 11:37.42 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 11:37.48 | Carneque | on the keyboard? |
| 11:37.48 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 11:38.14 | DocScrutinizer | search for picture file in .images/screenshots iirc |
| 11:38.38 | DocScrutinizer | Carneque: sure on kbd, where else? :-D |
| 11:39.20 | Carneque | I guess I'm just confused how I get capital P and press sh all at the same time? |
| 11:39.48 | DocScrutinizer | ooh? |
| 11:39.57 | Carneque | yeah haha |
| 11:40.52 | har | hm, so it would seem |
| 11:41.48 | Carneque | lol I thought you meant the letters s and h |
| 11:41.54 | Carneque | <---- duh |
| 11:44.52 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@89.221.15.146) |
| 11:45.13 | *** join/#maemo pablo2 (~pablo@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:45.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: anybody: doesn somebody know off top of his head the twl4030 hard cutout voltage threshold for whole system? I.E which is minimum voltage the N900 needs to boot? |
| 11:45.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | (boot to NOLO) |
| 11:50.46 | *** join/#maemo cfreak200 (~cfreak200@p4FDB5A27.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 11:54.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: haha, inserting charger for <1s makes NOLO boot to system instead of charging low battery |
| 11:55.17 | *** join/#maemo andi- (~andi@2001:470:1f0a:61f::2) |
| 11:57.16 | *** join/#maemo sobczyk (~sobczyk@203.230.102.188) |
| 11:57.34 | hrw | ~curse pyqt |
| 11:57.34 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, pyqt ! |
| 11:57.35 | sobczyk | the madde has no support for opengl in qt4? |
| 11:58.02 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:58.05 | hrw | fails |
| 11:58.22 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@187.113.104.170) |
| 11:58.31 | merlin1991 | hm that curse defenitely should go May you be reincarnated as a Windows Vista administrator, <nick>! |
| 11:58.47 | *** join/#maemo lmoura_ (~lauromour@187.113.104.170) |
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| 12:01.20 | RST38h | moo. |
| 12:02.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: answering my own Q: <3.0V seems NOLO and so whole hw doesn't start |
| 12:03.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | 20 inserts of charger for a moment - to make NOLO try boot the system - did the trick to discharge cell from 3.1 to 2.99 |
| 12:07.10 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@79-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 12:07.30 | DocScrutinizer | now testing emergency recovery charge from host usb |
| 12:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | steady yellow :-) |
| 12:08.37 | *** join/#maemo MSameerWork (~mohammed@a91-156-70-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | but different to charger where it took 10s max, now it seems to take its time |
| 12:09.36 | luke-jr | isn't it supposed to take 30 min? |
| 12:09.52 | DocScrutinizer | nah, it takes until cell voltage is >3.0V |
| 12:10.00 | DocScrutinizer | then NOLO starts up |
| 12:10.12 | *** join/#maemo cheriff (~davidm@209.59.70.115.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 12:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 12:10.15 | DocScrutinizer | now |
| 12:10.30 | DocScrutinizer | "NOKIA" and flashing yellow |
| 12:11.20 | RST38h | Doc: It is dead, Jim. You take its tricorder, and I will take its purse. |
| 12:11.26 | DocScrutinizer | and mass storage :-o |
| 12:11.47 | DocScrutinizer | now it booted to normal act_dead |
| 12:12.41 | *** join/#maemo Carneque (~bigbabyje@ip66-110-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 12:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | which means it had a very short green or white flash on ind LED, and now continues flashing yellow and black screen instead of "NOKIA" (normal behaviour) |
| 12:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | mass storage however was obviously a function of NOLO :-O |
| 12:16.13 | cheriff | hello - what bit depth is the general UI rendered at? I thought it was 565-16bpp but something early in boot complains about unsupported depth and reboots. is it looking for 24bpp on /dev/fb0 ? |
| 12:16.24 | RST38h | 16 |
| 12:16.35 | RST38h | It is RGB565] |
| 12:16.52 | cheriff | hmm, thats what I thought. thanks |
| 12:17.30 | *** join/#maemo ivan4th (~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru) |
| 12:17.35 | *** join/#maemo wmarone (~no@c-67-164-216-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:18.45 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:22.17 | jpinx-eeepc | I am getting intermittent hicups networking through the usb connection, sometime works fine other times not. when not and I do /etc/init.d/networking restart I get an error "Reconfiguring network interfaces...sh: missing ] " Anyone able to point me in the right direction to fix it? |
| 12:23.06 | mgedmin | jpinx-eeepc, try sh -x /etc/init.d/networking restart |
| 12:23.15 | mgedmin | try to find out which command is causing that error |
| 12:23.40 | Carneque | Is the N900 supposed to come with a CD for your computer? |
| 12:24.26 | Duckboot | Carneque: No - It's supposed to replace your computer |
| 12:25.08 | jpinx-eeepc | mgedmin: ouch - lots of output that I'll have to sift through and transcribe... |
| 12:25.14 | Carneque | good one |
| 12:25.45 | mgedmin | jpinx-eeepc, welcome to the wonderful world of software |
| 12:26.10 | mgedmin | most likely there's a broken script in /etc/network/if-*.d/ |
| 12:26.35 | jpinx-eeepc | mgedmin: going through it now... |
| 12:26.42 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 12:27.06 | jpinx-eeepc | here we go |
| 12:27.23 | DocScrutinizer | wwell, maybe mass storage mode isn't supported by NOLO but very early in regular system boot, even before grafix card gets cleaned from "NOLO" picture that remained in framebuffer |
| 12:27.37 | jpinx-eeepc | ... + ifdown -a sh: missing ] |
| 12:27.49 | jpinx-eeepc | mgedmin: where do I fix that? |
| 12:28.35 | *** join/#maemo dvarnes (~dvarnes@203-206-128-239.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:28.37 | jpinx-eeepc | iow - where is ifdown ? |
| 12:29.28 | jpinx-eeepc | no other errors apart from the last line saying echo failed and exit 0 |
| 12:30.31 | mgedmin | ifdown is one of the system commands that also runs scripts |
| 12:30.40 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@122.212.45.242) |
| 12:31.04 | mgedmin | try inserting 'set -x' near the top of each script in /etc/network/if-down.d/* |
| 12:31.35 | jpinx-eeepc | ok - moment ... |
| 12:33.49 | jpinx-eeepc | seems to be only one - mc-await-disconnect-script |
| 12:34.48 | *** join/#maemo MSameerWork (~mohammed@a91-156-70-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:36.07 | *** join/#maemo ivan4th (~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru) |
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| 12:41.38 | jpinx-eeepc | mgedmin: it refers me to a missing ] in /usr/bin/mc-await-disconnect |
| 12:41.55 | jpinx-eeepc | so how do I fix that? |
| 12:41.59 | mgedmin | syntax errors in scripts in /usr/bin? |
| 12:42.01 | *** join/#maemo fabo (~fabo@nat/nokia/x-yxmkxikavfouflcp) |
| 12:42.25 | mgedmin | is this on a n900? |
| 12:42.29 | jpinx-eeepc | yes |
| 12:42.57 | mgedmin | it's a binary file |
| 12:43.02 | mgedmin | it can't have syntax errors |
| 12:43.03 | jpinx-eeepc | yes :( |
| 12:43.07 | SpeedEvil | you haven't done anything silly like swapped the default shell for bash? |
| 12:43.10 | mgedmin | those must be coming from some shell script that it executes |
| 12:43.11 | mgedmin | strace? |
| 12:43.23 | SpeedEvil | there are scripts in /usr/bin IIRC |
| 12:43.31 | jpinx-eeepc | I did install bash |
| 12:43.35 | mgedmin | (true but irrelevant) |
| 12:45.43 | jpinx-eeepc | using ash (default shell) I get the same error |
| 12:46.13 | SpeedEvil | you can't run the normal scripts with bash |
| 12:46.16 | SpeedEvil | they do not work |
| 12:46.21 | SpeedEvil | Use the bu |
| 12:46.23 | SpeedEvil | ah - k |
| 12:46.36 | jpinx-eeepc | ? |
| 12:47.51 | SpeedEvil | Work out where in the script the output about the error is after |
| 12:49.13 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: it's immediately after + exec /usr/bin/mc-await-disconnect |
| 12:49.35 | SpeedEvil | I ge the same error from ifdown -a |
| 12:49.41 | jpinx-eeepc | the error is the next line " sh: missing ] " |
| 12:50.24 | jpinx-eeepc | yea - it seems to be part of the ifdown daemon |
| 12:50.57 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@pdpc/supporter/student/celesteh) |
| 12:51.05 | *** join/#maemo oscillik (~oscillik@cpc1-runc5-2-0-cust188.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 12:51.46 | jpinx-eeepc | is not even sure if this is the root of his problem with networking over usb |
| 12:51.57 | oscillik | i swear |
| 12:52.02 | oscillik | i'm getting rid of my N900 |
| 12:52.14 | SpeedEvil | strace reveals /etc/network/if-post-down.d/zz_static_ip_if_down |
| 12:52.19 | mgedmin | send it to me, oscillik! |
| 12:52.22 | oscillik | unless someone can let me know if you can clear the cache for the email application |
| 12:52.28 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~choppa@p5491E2E6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:52.34 | oscillik | 30 seconds to open an email is ridiculous |
| 12:52.36 | alterego | Does iced tea ship with a microb plugin? |
| 12:52.42 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 12:53.23 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: in the end we can't edit the binary |
| 12:54.30 | oscillik | does anyone know if it's possible to clear the cache for email? because i'm positive that's the problem |
| 12:54.43 | oscillik | the email application is snappy and fast within the first week of reflashing it |
| 12:54.53 | oscillik | after that, it just gets worse |
| 12:55.07 | SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: In trhe end, the error is clearly oming from a script that binary calls. You can fix it |
| 12:55.23 | SpeedEvil | oscillik: Sorry - no clue - I've uninstalled modest. |
| 12:55.37 | cheriff | RST38h: do you know what X does with the remainder of the 1920k? given that its above 800*480*2. double/triple buffered? |
| 12:55.44 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: cool - which script ? :) |
| 12:55.49 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:55.58 | oscillik | thanks SpeedEvil, at least i now know that the N900 is a lost cause for me |
| 12:56.04 | jpinx-eeepc | is a whole lot happier now that SpeedEvil has the same issue |
| 12:56.22 | jpinx-eeepc | oscillik: send it to me ;) |
| 12:56.35 | oscillik | yeah sure, £300 please ;) |
| 12:57.10 | oscillik | seriously, at this point, i'm looking to part-exchange it at Computer Exchange for a Nexus One |
| 12:57.10 | jpinx-eeepc | oscillik: 200 if it's still under warranty 6months |
| 12:57.40 | SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: strace |
| 12:57.41 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:58.33 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: hw does that parse? strace /etc/init.d/networking restart |
| 12:59.08 | SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: strace -f will follow forks and give you info on all scripts somethings calling |
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| 12:59.57 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: ash: strace: not found |
| 13:00.07 | SpeedEvil | apt-gret install strace |
| 13:00.14 | jpinx-eeepc | yea |
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| 13:00.25 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/strace/ |
| 13:01.18 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: the problem is that my issue with networking means I can not get the n900 online to install :( |
| 13:01.18 | dneary | Hmmm |
| 13:01.23 | dneary | Eliminating dups is a pain |
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| 13:01.42 | jpinx-eeepc | dneary: there are packages for that |
| 13:02.21 | dneary | jpinx-eeepc, It's concerning elections, tmp tokens, etc. Not quite the same thing :) |
| 13:02.50 | SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: setup usb networking |
| 13:03.00 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: that's what doesn't work |
| 13:03.28 | jpinx-eeepc | I got it to work once, by some lucky fluke |
| 13:04.04 | SpeedEvil | Or download the packages and install with dpkg |
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| 13:04.42 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: yea - I can see this taking a bit of time, but thanks for the good pointers ;) |
| 13:04.46 | *** join/#maemo lmoura__ (~lauromour@186.212.100.34) |
| 13:04.51 | jpinx-eeepc | I'll work on it now and see what happens |
| 13:04.59 | jpinx-eeepc | all for a missing ] |
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| 13:06.33 | SpeedEvil | Also. |
| 13:06.41 | SpeedEvil | It could be merely cosemetic. |
| 13:06.52 | SpeedEvil | Don't assume that errors are rthe cause of it not working |
| 13:07.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: ok, somehow I managed to get device into a state where NOLO starts up and makes yellow flash, but actually no power taken from USB (=not charging). Had to remove battery to cure that |
| 13:07.12 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: I saidd that earlier |
| 13:07.17 | SpeedEvil | If it works for most people, erros that are 'normal' may not be chased |
| 13:07.26 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: ping: sendmsg: Invalid argument |
| 13:07.26 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: funky |
| 13:07.34 | SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: gotta be root |
| 13:07.41 | jpinx-eeepc | I am ;) |
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| 13:10.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 13:10.39 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
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| 13:11.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | seems still OK |
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| 13:19.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | anyway: U-mode is blocked in NOLO when battery is too low. So on bootloops having run flat the battery nothing will help except external charger |
| 13:19.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | esp since u-mode also does NOT charge |
| 13:21.04 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer51: Are you sure it doesn't charge? |
| 13:21.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 13:21.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | definitely |
| 13:21.24 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer51: Not that the CPU is spinning at full and the usb port hardware is up, which uses more than it charges? |
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| 13:21.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's taking much less than 30mA from my USB charger |
| 13:22.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | probably zero |
| 13:22.22 | X-Fade | Ok, that should be enough proof then. |
| 13:22.28 | SpeedEvil | bug time |
| 13:22.56 | X-Fade | When booted you will see a warning when you use more than you charge. |
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| 13:23.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | X-Fade: last night it run flat while on charger in u-mode |
| 13:23.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | really flat |
| 13:23.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | like 3.05V cell voltage |
| 13:23.44 | X-Fade | Ah, well not totally flat but close ;) |
| 13:24.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, hw cutout threshold |
| 13:24.18 | X-Fade | My N800's battery was at 0.05V yesterday. |
| 13:24.27 | SpeedEvil | It goes to 2780mV or so |
| 13:24.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | below 3V the hw won't start up |
| 13:24.37 | jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: from the laptop to the n900, why would I be getting "ping: sendmsg: Invalid argument" ? |
| 13:25.27 | kerio | jpinx-eeepc: no route |
| 13:26.26 | SpeedEvil | yeah - I mean still running |
| 13:26.56 | SpeedEvil | 2724 is the lowest I see on logs |
| 13:27.03 | SpeedEvil | bme dead |
| 13:27.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | on a sidenote (for those interested): NOLO yellow flashing is an itsy tad dimmer than normal system notification for charging |
| 13:27.12 | jpinx-eeepc | kerio: it's listed in /etc/network/interfaces as static with the right info, but comes up in route as "local-link" |
| 13:27.59 | jpinx-eeepc | and as 192.168.2.0 |
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| 13:35.55 | CutMeOwnThroat | jpinx-eeepc! |
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| 13:37.43 | CutMeOwnThroat | hm, I don't think I can track down why the "Fn" and "Enter" key don't work as they should... perhaps the best would be just to play the original N810 image(s) back in? |
| 13:38.22 | CutMeOwnThroat | I'm sure it's some software-thing, because the keys trigger the clicking noise that the N810 makes when on keystrokes when the sound is on |
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| 13:43.21 | dneary | Bombs away |
| 13:43.28 | dneary | Apologies for the delay |
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| 13:44.24 | jpinx-eeepc | CutMeOwnThroat: ! |
| 13:45.00 | X-Fade | dneary: received |
| 13:45.07 | dneary | cool |
| 13:45.41 | dneary | Dups removed, but if you voted already you mighht still get a new voting token |
| 13:46.31 | sobczyk | is it possible to disable virtual keyboard for certain apps? |
| 13:47.26 | jpinx-eeepc | mine doesn't work for all apps anyway:/ |
| 13:47.52 | *** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 13:48.21 | sobczyk | I want to use qt4 and want the VK work for all apps except the one I'm developing now |
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| 13:52.16 | *** join/#maemo Munkiii (5189bcb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.137.188.185) |
| 13:52.39 | Munkiii | Can anybody help me with this problem? |
| 13:52.40 | Munkiii | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62442 |
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| 13:55.53 | GAN900 | Too many people to vote for. |
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| 13:58.33 | pupnik_ | good question Munkiii |
| 13:58.54 | Munkiii | i guess nobody knows how? |
| 13:59.10 | ieatlint | GAN900: agreed... and inconveniently, they're listed by name despite often being known by a handle |
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| 14:01.18 | GAN900 | ieatlint, handle is in the parens on the voting page. |
| 14:01.39 | ieatlint | ah... i haven't logged in yet, just have the emails |
| 14:01.43 | lcuk | GAN900, http://maemo.org/vote/ |
| 14:01.45 | X-Fade | ieatlint: Well if you aren't smart enough to spot the nick then you have other problems ;) |
| 14:01.55 | lcuk | theres a lot of good candidates in this election! |
| 14:01.59 | ieatlint | X-Fade: you don't get my vote now :P |
| 14:02.19 | X-Fade | ieatlint: Don't need your vote ;) Sole dictator role suits me a lot better :D |
| 14:02.57 | ieatlint | haha |
| 14:03.00 | *** join/#maemo edisson (~edisson@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:03.04 | GAN900 | Mmmm |
| 14:03.09 | GAN900 | Seriously |
| 14:03.11 | ieatlint | you'll have to share that with intel soon... i wish you luck |
| 14:03.18 | jpinx-eeepc | kerio: ok - I have the usb local network working, but I can not get the n900 to connect by usb to the laptops wifi |
| 14:03.23 | GAN900 | OK, first person to give me $20 gets my vote. |
| 14:03.40 | Stskeeps | zimbabwe dollars count |
| 14:03.41 | Stskeeps | ? |
| 14:03.52 | GAN900 | No. |
| 14:03.55 | GAN900 | US |
| 14:04.05 | GAN900 | and you're not on the ballot Mr. MeeGo. |
| 14:04.09 | ieatlint | you'd spend more than $20 trying to find a $20 zimbabwean note |
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| 14:05.09 | GAN900 | I really hate trying to figure who wont need my vote to get in. |
| 14:05.36 | pupnik_ | how many total members GAN900 |
| 14:06.03 | GAN900 | 5 seats, 10 candidates. |
| 14:06.13 | kerio | jpinx-eeepc: enabled forwarding and nat or forwarding and bridging? |
| 14:06.23 | pupnik_ | what are a couple of priorities for the council that need promoting at this time? |
| 14:06.33 | kerio | and the appropriate routing on the n900 |
| 14:06.48 | kerio | and the fake tablet connectivity connection |
| 14:07.51 | jpinx-eeepc | kerio: route on teh laptop shows the default route as my wifi - what esle is needed? |
| 14:08.04 | kerio | enable forwarding, set up routing on the n900 itself |
| 14:08.06 | pupnik_ | one commenter thought the community was more "developer oriented" than "user oriented". That seems proper to me, since the main use of the community is supporting the platform via ports and development. |
| 14:08.11 | kerio | i s'pose |
| 14:08.21 | kerio | what users |
| 14:08.24 | kerio | the n900 has no users |
| 14:08.58 | jpinx-eeepc | kerio: route on teh n900 shows the laptop IP as default route |
| 14:08.59 | ieatlint | haha, indeed |
| 14:09.32 | GAN900 | pup |
| 14:09.45 | GAN900 | pupnik_, lemmyslender is a little bit confused. |
| 14:10.03 | GAN900 | But I see it as CONTRIBUTOR oriented. |
| 14:10.34 | GAN900 | Which is neither exclusively developer- nor user-oriented. |
| 14:10.36 | pupnik_ | ok you're right, there are many important ways to contribute besides developing |
| 14:11.04 | GAN900 | I think the point is that it's not really end-user oriented. |
| 14:11.27 | *** join/#maemo Carneque (~bigbabyje@ip66-110-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 14:11.49 | Munkiii | Seriously, nobody knows anything? - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62442 |
| 14:12.12 | SpeedEvil | Munkiii: Many people won't bother loading a random URL for what could be a stupid question. |
| 14:12.32 | SpeedEvil | It's generally a good idea to give a sentance or two about the URL, and why we might be interested in loading it. |
| 14:12.40 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 14:12.44 | SpeedEvil | Plus - the vast majority of people won't be able to anwer your question. |
| 14:12.56 | SpeedEvil | You're just wastinge their rrime, and annoying them if you do that. |
| 14:15.35 | jpinx-eeepc | kerio: got it working - thanks for the pointers :) |
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| 14:16.01 | GAN900 | Votes away |
| 14:16.06 | GAN900 | crosses fingers. |
| 14:16.25 | Munkiii | Ok, i am asking if anybody knows how to re-arrange desktops, i want to change the order of desktops around without manually removing all widgets and putting them back on other desktops. |
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| 14:16.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | hahaha "too high temperature detected, flashlight disabled" |
| 14:16.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: what's the temperature? |
| 14:17.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | dunno, 20s later system shut down due to low battery |
| 14:17.30 | GAN900 | Everybody be sure to vote in the council election. |
| 14:18.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | also no idea which temperature the flashlight app is using to determine that |
| 14:18.17 | GAN900 | Having a good voter turnout helps ensure a strong mandate for the next council (which gives a lot more clout with Nokia and MeeGo). |
| 14:19.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | everybody be sure to receive their token |
| 14:19.53 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~communi@catv-89-132-105-133.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 14:19.58 | GAN900 | dneary resent this morning. |
| 14:20.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | umm ok, I'll check my mail |
| 14:20.59 | dneary | GAN900, Correction: this afternoon |
| 14:21.43 | GAN900 | dneary, your timezone is a lie. |
| 14:21.52 | Venemo | hey maemo guys :) |
| 14:24.10 | Munkiii | 'lo |
| 14:24.50 | pupnik_ | "After spending a few weeks with linux, using Windows NT and 98 felt like wearing a straightjacket riding down a steep hill in a baby-buggy" |
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| 14:30.09 | dneary | pupnik_, He means, "felt like fun" |
| 14:30.21 | dneary | pupnik_, "felt like being alive again" |
| 14:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: with bme stopped system shuts down hard on ~3.0V, For battery <3.0V emergency charging, on ~3.0V NOLO boots and starts sw controlled charging, on ~3.3V NOLO boots up act_dead system for normal charging |
| 14:33.56 | *** join/#maemo oscillik (~oscillik@82.132.248.217) |
| 14:34.09 | DocScrutinizer | dneary: mail made it thru spam filters :-) |
| 14:34.24 | dneary | docscrutinizer: kewl |
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| 14:34.57 | pupnik_ | dneary: :) i think it meant 'loss of control' of course |
| 14:36.44 | DocScrutinizer | dneary: thanks for sorting it |
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| 14:40.19 | dneary | pupnik_, Riding down a steep hill in a buggy with a straightjacket on sounds like fun to me |
| 14:40.23 | dneary | I saw it on Jackass |
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| 14:47.11 | lcuk | dneary, change the title of that thread "Voting tokens going out tomorrow" |
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| 14:47.18 | lcuk | it keeps coming up at the top of my mailbox |
| 14:47.27 | lcuk | and I actually thought voting hadn't started! |
| 14:47.47 | dneary | lcuk: OK, next time Ig to it |
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| 14:48.25 | lcuk | \o |
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| 15:22.31 | oscillik | ok, the deed is done. i will be |
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| 15:22.40 | oscillik | exchanging my N900 tomorrow |
| 15:23.09 | pupnik_ | what caused that decision oscillik |
| 15:23.34 | oscillik | i have a spare BL-5J (N900) and BP-4L (E90) battery, if anyone wants them. £10 each |
| 15:23.41 | oscillik | pupnik_: the email client being absolute gash |
| 15:24.01 | Jaffa | oscillik: And what are you getting instead? |
| 15:24.15 | oscillik | Nexus One |
| 15:24.58 | Jaffa | oscillik: Does it do proper quoting? |
| 15:25.05 | oscillik | the slow performance and lack of features of the email client on the N900 is just too much to bare, for me personally anyways |
| 15:25.06 | pupnik_ | what does the email client on that do that the n900 doesn't? |
| 15:25.09 | Jaffa | oscillik: Presumably, being Google Mail, it does proper conversations & threading |
| 15:25.11 | pupnik_ | bear |
| 15:25.26 | oscillik | and it doesn't take upwards of 30 seconds to 1 minute to open emails |
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| 15:26.54 | oscillik | also, with the Nexus One, i don't have to rely on Nokia Messaging for "push" email |
| 15:27.14 | zap | So, now micro$oft 0wnz Nokia? |
| 15:27.48 | oscillik | lol wut? |
| 15:28.03 | zap | http://itfanat.com/7639.html |
| 15:28.59 | oscillik | erm, you DO know that guy was an ex-Microsoft employee, right? |
| 15:29.11 | oscillik | also, the english in that article is terrible |
| 15:29.23 | zap | my english is not better |
| 15:29.29 | nidO | he was also employed by juniper, macromedia, and adobe |
| 15:29.40 | nidO | do they all ownz microsoft *and* nokia?! |
| 15:30.00 | pupnik_ | if that guy can get some microsoft office support into nokia phones, i'll call it a win |
| 15:30.02 | zap | okay, I just hope that guy doesn't jump out of his pants when he hears "linux" |
| 15:30.18 | pupnik_ | yes, he's got to get behind meego - has he said anything about it? |
| 15:30.50 | zap | oscillik: here's a better english: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11257069 |
| 15:31.23 | oscillik | "He is leaving his current job as the head of Microsoft's Business Division after only 20 months with the US software giant." |
| 15:32.27 | GAN900 | The Nexus One's screen sucks. |
| 15:32.43 | oscillik | the screen isn't that much of an issue for me |
| 15:33.04 | oscillik | what is an issue is the completely abhorrent performance of the email client |
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| 15:34.26 | pupnik_ | So email client wasn't open-sourced apparently |
| 15:35.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | it is |
| 15:36.07 | alterego | ping lcuk |
| 15:36.08 | nidO | it is, but its 1) crap anyway and 2) crippled to worse than crap to the point where even just undoing half the limitations nokia's imposed is a boatload of unwanted hassle |
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| 15:37.40 | alterego | Woah, a 5M executable? |
| 15:37.49 | alterego | I wonder why that's so big .. |
| 15:38.30 | alterego | Hah, it's actually 6661KB .. |
| 15:39.41 | alterego | Ah, without debugging symbols it's 216K |
| 15:39.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | I sail to get it why nobody has managed to plumb a demi decent GUI to a working existing mail client |
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| 15:40.20 | dridk | hi |
| 15:40.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | err fail |
| 15:41.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | and semi, ffs |
| 15:41.11 | alterego | You're right, that was a fail ;) |
| 15:41.17 | dridk | How can I play a a video streaming from http://tv.freebox.fr/iphone/france2.m3u8 ?I mean , which command do I need to write in terminal to launch the player ? |
| 15:41.22 | alterego | Obviously you require a fail client :P |
| 15:42.01 | nidO | I just have to make do with my old-ass e90 when i'm expecting to need serious mail while out anywhere |
| 15:43.30 | alterego | Meh, I just use web interfaces tbh |
| 15:43.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | for sure I don't need a mail client on maemo - mail management is just a nightmare on a fullfeatured desktop mail client, with decent kbd and 21' screen |
| 15:44.20 | nidO | well, there are varying degrees. I dont want or expect to be able to fully manage all aspects of my mail from a titchy little screen, i'd just love an imap client that actually works. |
| 15:44.25 | pupnik_ | some people have to use email intensely for work: i understand their frustration with Modest |
| 15:44.28 | nidO | for that I have to turn back to symbian |
| 15:44.55 | pupnik_ | nidO: do you find that some symbian apps are faster to use than maemo equivalents? |
| 15:45.06 | pupnik_ | i'm thinking of the ui and menu structure |
| 15:45.13 | pupnik_ | and speed of doing various operations |
| 15:45.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik_: n900 is definitely not the right device for people doing large amounts of email, no matter which mailer they use |
| 15:45.42 | nidO | yes, on my e90 specifically a good deal of real productivity-related stuff is much faster to do than on maemo |
| 15:46.07 | nidO | both for ui reasons and also tbh the keyboard, the e90 version of which I can use infinitely faster than the n900's |
| 15:46.15 | pupnik_ | i found the e71 easy to learn and use without any study |
| 15:47.12 | oscillik | ProfiMail is, by far, the best mobile email client i have ever used |
| 15:47.14 | pupnik_ | perhaps the symbian folks at nokia should be engaged as meego-testers -- see what annoys them and you learn what symbian users are going to want out of the next-gen |
| 15:47.39 | oscillik | but even the standard built-in email client on Symbian is complete crap |
| 15:47.43 | nidO | plus the n900 is just slower to respond in general than an e90 or most e-series symbian's - modest takes an age to list a mail folder, my e90's built-in client or profimail both display them basically instantly |
| 15:48.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | honestly who's claiming to do professional work on email on a 800x480, should get fired |
| 15:48.26 | oscillik | i'm not claiming to do professional work |
| 15:48.54 | oscillik | i'm just saying that in 2010, it is ridiculous to press the email notification (to open the email) and have to wait upwards of 1 whole minute for that email to open |
| 15:49.22 | nidO | I claim that I do on my e90's 800x352 screen \o/ |
| 15:49.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | even my 1280x800 feels slow for mailer with those 400mails/day |
| 15:49.59 | nidO | i wish I got that few :( |
| 15:50.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | slow to work on due to being small |
| 15:50.54 | nidO | tbh screen size is going to always be a hinderance to getting stuff done, but that doesnt mean the software has to cripple it even further |
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| 15:55.08 | alterego | mece: I just uploaded a new version of my GPS app, if you're interested |
| 15:55.08 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 15:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | no doubt modest is modest |
| 15:55.45 | mece | alterego, cool.. we talking devel or that place you put that thing that time? |
| 15:55.53 | alterego | Just the executable. |
| 15:55.56 | mece | k. |
| 15:56.00 | alterego | Where I uploaded it last time. |
| 15:56.16 | alterego | Still a couple of small things I want to tidy before I start publishing to extras |
| 15:57.14 | mece | k. |
| 15:57.34 | alterego | This version requires qtm-systeminfo |
| 15:57.56 | mece | I'm having a bit of trouble with zooming a flickable area |
| 15:58.12 | mece | I used NumberAnimation to change scale |
| 15:58.19 | alterego | Right |
| 15:58.37 | alterego | Let me guess? Centering? |
| 15:58.43 | mece | uh-huh |
| 15:58.46 | alterego | :) |
| 15:58.51 | mece | exactomundo. Got a solution for that? |
| 15:59.03 | mece | well it's scaling around center, naturally. |
| 15:59.11 | alterego | Well, the only thing I can think of, is you need to modify the position proportional to the scale factor :/ |
| 15:59.34 | mece | yeah. Or the distance from the center poportional to the scale factor. |
| 15:59.35 | rmrfchik | is there any developers? maemo packaging drives me mad |
| 15:59.57 | mece | rmrfchik, what's the problem? It's main purpose is to make people mad it seems. |
| 16:00.00 | alterego | I've not actually come across that issue, but I can see that as being a problem :) |
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| 16:00.29 | mece | uh. Actually I have to go. The Horde need a feeding |
| 16:00.38 | alterego | Okay, have fun :) |
| 16:00.39 | mece | bbl. |
| 16:00.47 | alterego | I'm going out in 30 minutes so .. |
| 16:00.55 | alterego | Talk to you soon ;) |
| 16:01.06 | hardaker | hates packaging. .deb; .rpm; they all suck |
| 16:01.08 | hardaker | sigh. |
| 16:01.17 | hardaker | anyone have a solution to this one: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libval-threads.so.8: unexpected reloc type 0x03 |
| 16:01.30 | rmrfchik | mece: packaging removes "+x" from my binary. |
| 16:01.51 | rmrfchik | I don't want to put binary to /usr/bin as it root, I want to put it to /opt/maemo/usr/bin |
| 16:01.59 | rmrfchik | and when I do this, +x is removed |
| 16:02.52 | alterego | Interesting .. |
| 16:03.19 | dridk | How can I open a file with the media player ? |
| 16:04.15 | rmrfchik | just tried madde example. this put binary to root fs, insane |
| 16:04.29 | alterego | debug goes into /usr/local yes |
| 16:04.37 | alterego | Not sure why they changed that |
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| 16:11.18 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 16:11.18 | infobot | i guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs |
| 16:11.49 | DocScrutinizer | get /usr and /var sorted, nuke /opt |
| 16:13.27 | DocScrutinizer | I'm tempted to see what meego does for the optification problem aka root isn't 32G issue... Or mabby not |
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| 16:18.26 | MNZ | Any hints on where to start to get familiar with NEON ? |
| 16:20.14 | hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/09/17/is-designing-ui-simple-with-qt/ |
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| 16:27.22 | DocScrutinizer | my /usr/bin has 340 true files and 432 links. either way it's odd |
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| 16:30.34 | DocScrutinizer | files that are needed for boot first phase (until single user and mounting volumes) have to go to /bin, rather than /usr/bin (see FHS). Then the rest (the links) could stay in /usr/bin and whole /usr move to eMMC (that's what /usr is meant for) |
| 16:31.35 | DocScrutinizer | of course same applies to /usr/sbin |
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| 16:43.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: yeah but that would require having a clue |
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| 16:59.08 | Tott3[AEX] | Hiho |
| 16:59.44 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: there are enough people with a clue, but what's more problematic than any lack of expertise is implementing and deploying a painless migration path |
| 17:00.47 | DocScrutinizer | what's the nice term I heard recently? botch once, suffer many |
| 17:02.50 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if eMMC VANILLA image file could get modified in a way it flashes /home partition only, keeping the VFAT partition untouched |
| 17:03.03 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: let's hope meego doesn't do the same stupid shit |
| 17:04.59 | pupnik_ | what do you do when knowledgable people disagree about what would be stupid, kerio |
| 17:05.37 | kerio | pupnik_: why, lock them in a cage and make them swallow a copy of the key each |
| 17:05.51 | kerio | make them kill each other to get the key in their stomach |
| 17:05.58 | kerio | the one that survives gets to decide |
| 17:06.15 | MNZ | kerio, that is stupid |
| 17:06.23 | MNZ | they'll gank up on one and kill him and get the key |
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| 17:06.27 | MNZ | then the rest will leave |
| 17:06.35 | kerio | MNZ: oh, we're talking about more than two people |
| 17:06.37 | MNZ | you are still left with more than one person to decide |
| 17:06.41 | kerio | i see |
| 17:07.08 | pupnik_ | you could be a lawyer, MNZ |
| 17:07.15 | MNZ | I vote for a fiddle playing contest. A fiddle-off, if I may. |
| 17:07.24 | MNZ | May the best fiddler prevail! |
| 17:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | more than two knowledgeable people? o.O |
| 17:07.44 | DocScrutinizer | impossible |
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| 17:08.38 | pupnik_ | imagining for a moment a powerful community council; how much of a factor should be "knowledge of maemo OS / APIs / apps" |
| 17:08.52 | pupnik_ | voting factor |
| 17:08.53 | DocScrutinizer | also we got another problem: who decides who's knowledgeable? The one über-knowledgeable? |
| 17:09.11 | MNZ | pupnik_, a lawyer.. probably not. But I'm enough of an a-hole to get myself out of a hypothetical situation such as the one kerio proposed. |
| 17:09.34 | pupnik_ | imagining each voter uses best of his/her knowledge DocScrutinizer - voting yields median opinion |
| 17:10.15 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: "Ha. Well, that's a tricky one... I mean, who's qualified to judge something like that? This is the world's smartest man we're talking about here, so how can you tell? How can anyone tell if he's gone crazy?" |
| 17:10.24 | DocScrutinizer | aah I see, you're thinking about 5 people to swallow the key :-P |
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| 17:11.58 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, sanitizing optification would be a really nice milestone for harmattan |
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| 17:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | and to me at least it seems it's not really hard, if we can just rip out MyDocs partition from VANILLA image, and instead fill the former /home partition with /usr/[(s)bin,share,foo] /var and /home |
| 17:14.56 | MNZ | and then fix all the optified packages |
| 17:15.05 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 17:15.35 | DocScrutinizer | I'm recommending for long now there MUST be a simple way to deoptify |
| 17:15.38 | DocScrutinizer | ~2119 |
| 17:15.38 | infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. |
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| 17:16.40 | felipec | is anybody compiling their own kernel? |
| 17:17.19 | MNZ | I do. But it's the rather oooldddd maemo kernel, .28 |
| 17:17.52 | DocScrutinizer | for packages using the auto-optification option of buildhost (sorry if my wording is odd here, I got abscesses looking into it so am not really familiar with it) it should be rather simple to deoptify |
| 17:18.36 | felipec | MNZ: but it's based on the debian package, right? not something close to mainline |
| 17:19.13 | MNZ | it's just mainline + nokia patches + 'debian' directory with the debian control files |
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| 17:19.21 | MNZ | how 'close' to mainline do you need? |
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| 17:19.36 | felipec | MNZ: how many nokia patches? |
| 17:19.51 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 17:20.08 | MNZ | felipec, I have no idea. It's one big ass patch that comes with the package sources |
| 17:20.29 | felipec | MNZ: right, that's what I thought... that's pretty far from upstream |
| 17:20.35 | felipec | 30k lines of code last I checked |
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| 17:20.45 | DocScrutinizer | kewl |
| 17:20.52 | felipec | er, 30k patches |
| 17:20.58 | MNZ | are you reaaally using mainline?? |
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| 17:21.15 | felipec | MNZ: yes, on the beagleboard |
| 17:21.21 | DocScrutinizer | err what? 30k files? with patches?? o.O |
| 17:21.27 | felipec | checks |
| 17:22.16 | DocScrutinizer | is checking number of inodes on his disk :-P |
| 17:22.35 | ShadowJK | would prefer /usr/local or /usr/pkg instead of mixing base system with addon software all in /usr/* |
| 17:23.15 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: hmm, debatable |
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| 17:24.14 | ShadowJK | that way you could keep base on ubifs |
| 17:24.29 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/local usually is for locally build beta versions etc - rarely seen any binary public pkg installing there |
| 17:25.32 | felipec | 23k patches, 6 million lines of code |
| 17:25.38 | DocScrutinizer | anyway you for sure can do this, FHS is no law, it's a RFC which you can augment if you know what you're doing |
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| 17:25.50 | ShadowJK | yeah well, given how fucking lazy people are, it's the default place stuff goes when running ./configure for most things :P |
| 17:26.13 | ShadowJK | /usr/pkg is used by all the bsds iirc |
| 17:26.18 | DocScrutinizer | felipec: FFS! :-O |
| 17:26.48 | MNZ | felipec, why were you asking anyway? |
| 17:27.12 | felipec | MNZ: I want to switch development from beagleboard to an N900 |
| 17:27.18 | mece | Alright. Horde fed and put to bed. yay! |
| 17:28.03 | MNZ | felipec, and it doesn't boot, I assume. |
| 17:28.46 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nevertheless /usr is by definition a directory that MUST NOT be required to boot up the machine to single user |
| 17:29.43 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: the whole and only purpose of /usr is to keep it on a separate drive that may fail and still system is maintainable by root via console |
| 17:30.15 | felipec | MNZ: doesn't look like that... on a MeeGo system |
| 17:31.10 | ShadowJK | well with the security framework in place user's nuking their os will be reduced somewhat I'd think :D |
| 17:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | I'll rip out security framework and feed it to those introducing it to linux |
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| 17:33.16 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, that's unrelated |
| 17:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | as "system can boot to single-user without /usr" means you're free to mount /usr later in boot process |
| 17:34.43 | frals | awesome, my gf broke fmms on her phone and now im guiding her in how to send me the log file over skype videochat... |
| 17:35.38 | DocScrutinizer | the maintainability of a system with borked /usr is just one of the side effects of the definition "/usr can live on a separate drive" |
| 17:36.15 | ShadowJK | I'm sure it was considered entirely irrelevant for n900, as / and /usr are on the same fs :) |
| 17:36.22 | DocScrutinizer | frals, you got a cute gf |
| 17:36.46 | mece | DocScrutinizer, What? Pics or it didn't happen! |
| 17:36.57 | SpeedEvil | frals: Why don't you have ssh setup? :) |
| 17:36.59 | frals | shes very proud she understood the 'cp' command.. after having a fit because it was called.. well, cp |
| 17:37.02 | DocScrutinizer | mece: eh?? |
| 17:37.24 | ShadowJK | I hope /usr will be read-only in the future ;p |
| 17:37.28 | frals | SpeedEvil: i do, but i figured copying a file to mydocs and sending from desktop was easier than getting the ip from her |
| 17:37.29 | mece | DocScrutinizer, how else would you know she's cute? |
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| 17:37.39 | ShadowJK | with a rw /usr/pkg or something for addon pkgs |
| 17:37.54 | mece | frals, she really needs to install personal ip widget, or whatever it's called. |
| 17:38.34 | ShadSEC2 | Docscrutinizer, what would be the issues in having the base system as is, and mounting a bigger fs onto it using mini_fo? |
| 17:38.47 | frals | DocScrutinizer: yes i do ;) |
| 17:38.52 | DocScrutinizer | mece: won't help neither on WLAN with NAT nor on GPRS |
| 17:39.29 | frals | fwiw it would help over gprs since her provides actually gives each device a proper ip without any nat/fw |
| 17:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: first: my lack to know what's mini_fo |
| 17:40.23 | ShadSEC2 | similar to unionfs... extenvensively used on OpenWRT |
| 17:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: second: the obvious complications in doing things not the age old proven standard way |
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| 17:40.47 | ShadSEC2 | simple, lightweight... |
| 17:41.29 | DocScrutinizer | frals: that's quite unusual |
| 17:41.33 | ShadSEC2 | well, but it doesnt seem to be any perfect way yet, there is? |
| 17:41.36 | mece | DocScrutinizer, how does it not help on gprs? |
| 17:41.56 | DocScrutinizer | mece: see frals ^^^ |
| 17:42.01 | frals | DocScrutinizer: yeah, tele2 sweden is awesome.. no limit on mms size either :D |
| 17:42.47 | mece | saunalahti here and I have direct ip too. Very nice. |
| 17:43.48 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: move /usr and /var to eMMC and you're fine (after cleaning up the mess that's system init and optification now) |
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| 17:44.59 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: there are some catches, e.g. system init using commands from /usr/(s)bin, which is clearly a (easy to fix) bug in system config |
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| 17:46.21 | DocScrutinizer | honestly I guess I could sanitize the whole thing with ~5 cmdlines |
| 17:46.43 | ShadSEC2 | docscrutinizer, I havent checked what's currently on /usr from the base system.. but depending on that, it would mean moving those files to slower emmc |
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| 17:46.57 | DocScrutinizer | but next apt-get install would possibly break the whole system |
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| 17:47.23 | ShadSEC2 | using the transparent union would still benefit read speed from binaries on ubifs |
| 17:47.47 | mece | did we kill diasporas servers? |
| 17:47.59 | DocScrutinizer | that's an extremly sophisticated approach for a trivial problem |
| 17:48.04 | mece | washington was kinda nice this morning. Around noon it started lagging, and now it's gone. |
| 17:48.21 | mece | did anyone here try it? |
| 17:48.24 | GAN900 | facepalms at Talk. |
| 17:48.35 | GAN900 | bergie, apparently Neimen is a "he" now. |
| 17:48.41 | ShadSEC2 | but an extremely easy approach to implement too |
| 17:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: just move all those files you need on boot or need fast access to, from /usr/bin to /bin (same for sbin) and task accomplished for that part |
| 17:49.22 | GAN900 | s/Neimen/Neiman |
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| 17:50.11 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: uhuh, and how'd you handle updates of files living in "base system" /usr/bin ? |
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| 17:50.48 | ShadSEC2 | Docscrutinizer, now that sounds much more complicated and prone to error... one of the beauty of the union approach is that you could always get rid of the overlay file and boot a perfectly clean new system |
| 17:51.25 | ShadSEC2 | docscrutinizer, you mean a PR update or something? |
| 17:51.30 | DocScrutinizer | how'd you handle files that get modifications during mini_fo mounted, but those mods needed during next boot early when it's not yet ? |
| 17:51.50 | ShadSEC2 | wtf have i done? lol |
| 17:52.29 | ShadowJK | boot to act_dead mode for updates :) |
| 17:52.54 | ShadowJK | they're bicentennial events anyway ;D |
| 17:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: honestly, a botch over a botch invented to fix a botch isn't a smart solution ever |
| 17:53.17 | ShadSEC2 | DocScrutinizer,mmm, it doesnt work that way.. either you boot with the overlay, or you boot with the original untouched os |
| 17:53.40 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: sorry you lost me |
| 17:53.43 | ShadSEC2 | well, probably not, i am just asking... it works so well in openwrt... |
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| 17:54.22 | ShadSEC2 | I mean that IF there are modifications to base files, they will be lost if you boot without the overlay |
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| 17:55.02 | DocScrutinizer | exactly, and you always boot without the overlay, as first and only thing bootloader passes to kernel is the rootfs |
| 17:55.06 | ShadSEC2 | probably that unaceptable |
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| 17:57.09 | DocScrutinizer | whenever init system is able to mount the overlay, it as well can mount a simple classical /usr partition |
| 17:57.11 | ShadSEC2 | the idea is to boot with ubifs+overlay... always.. except IF you want to begin with a new clean system |
| 17:57.33 | ShadSEC2 | yes |
| 17:57.41 | ShadSEC2 | but, there are advantages |
| 17:57.57 | bergie | GAN900: I can understand that people are confused as we usually represent ourselves as individuals in Maemo circles :-) But yeah, it is a company... http://nemein.com/en/ |
| 17:57.59 | ShadSEC2 | 1) the original base is always there, untouched |
| 17:58.06 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: so how do you patch nolo to make it tell kernel to mount a rootfs that's actually a unionfs? |
| 17:58.31 | DocScrutinizer | (while I really doubt kernel can do that anyway) |
| 17:59.01 | ShadSEC2 | 2) Not only you dont need to care about optifiying, you in fact dont need to care about some rogue program overfilling / with a log or something (Ie: fring... It was doing a huge log just in /) |
| 17:59.16 | DocScrutinizer | whatever, that's quite obviously a lot more complex than a /usr partition on eMMC |
| 17:59.27 | ShadSEC2 | sorry for my ignorance but.. what nolo? |
| 17:59.46 | MNZ | NOkia LOader |
| 17:59.55 | ShadSEC2 | it the bootloader or something? |
| 18:00.00 | ShadSEC2 | mmmmm |
| 18:00.21 | ShadSEC2 | So i guess it is closed and only boot from / ? |
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| 18:02.29 | DocScrutinizer | what's the root= parameter to pass to kernel so it mounts a mini_fo as rootfs? what patches in kernel are needed to teach it to do that? |
| 18:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | I don't see the whole thing fly |
| 18:03.29 | GAN900 | bergie, at least 4 spellings in the thread, too. |
| 18:03.39 | GAN900 | bergie, glad you saw it, anyway. |
| 18:05.13 | bergie | GAN900: if I were starting business now, I'd choose an easier name ;-) |
| 18:05.21 | ShadSEC2 | docscrutinizer, let me look for it, it has been some time i dont play with that in openwrt |
| 18:06.14 | ShadSEC2 | but if memory doesnt fail, i think it was probably doing part of the boot from real / and then doing a remount |
| 18:06.19 | ShadSEC2 | better let me check... |
| 18:08.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadSEC2: that's exactly what I expected and answered above all the time. You never boot with mini_fo, you never know for sure if files are accessed old version before it is mounted later, you always can mount /usr same moment mini_fs is mounted |
| 18:09.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | so mini_fs isn't really a simpler solution than a /usr partition |
| 18:10.05 | *** part/#maemo toggles (~irssi_tog@b05s35le.corenetworks.net) |
| 18:10.27 | ShadSEC2 | yes, it boots from a squashfs (READ ONLY), later in the boot sequence mounts another partition and then call fopivot that presents / as the combination of the squashfs + overlay |
| 18:11.29 | ShadSEC2 | docscrutinizer, yes |
| 18:11.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | nice overkill for optification sanitising |
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| 18:12.09 | ShadSEC2 | docscrutinizer, but the two advantages i said before are valuable i think |
| 18:12.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | sure |
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| 18:12.58 | cheriff | has anyone had experience with kexec on the maemo kernel? How reliable has it been? |
| 18:13.40 | ShadSEC2 | anyway, whatever the solution, one is needed |
| 18:13.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | afaik it doesn't work at all |
| 18:14.03 | ShadSEC2 | its incredible a simple package as screen isnt available even in extras-devel, to say just one example |
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| 18:15.55 | cheriff | DocScrutinizer51: ok thanks. I have a kernel with it enabled, and cross-compiler the user utils but could get it to do anything other than hang, and wasnt ure it ifs me or not :) |
| 18:16.49 | cheriff | *cross compiled *couldn't *sure <-- typing skills ftw |
| 18:17.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | well apt-cache tells me there's kexec. So maybe the's obsolete info |
| 18:21.35 | GAN900 | bergie, I'll admit to having to google the spelling once every few months or so. *g* |
| 18:21.50 | n900evil | ShadSEC2: it's in tools |
| 18:22.03 | ShadSEC2 | yes |
| 18:22.15 | ShadSEC2 | but the point is it is not in extras-devel |
| 18:22.25 | ShadSEC2 | and it is not optified at all |
| 18:22.28 | ShadSEC2 | it works ok though |
| 18:22.37 | n900evil | well do it then! |
| 18:22.37 | toggles | Any packagers around? I had a repo setup and automated scripts that worked fine a month ago, now when I run the scripts I get "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: control file must have at least one binary package part" |
| 18:22.53 | ShadSEC2 | I did, but my program depends on screen |
| 18:23.23 | ShadSEC2 | and anyways, its just an example |
| 18:24.01 | ShadSEC2 | of a basic program, that compiles straightforward, and it is not even availabe in extras-devel |
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| 18:27.02 | SpeedEvil | It's as simple as nobodies bothererd to upload it. |
| 18:27.06 | SpeedEvil | And package |
| 18:28.31 | RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42357 |
| 18:28.34 | toggles | damn.. fingered it out.. scratchbox needs a space before the Package line... doubleyouteeeff |
| 18:28.35 | RST38h | Freaking lemmings... |
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| 18:28.59 | ShadSEC2 | yes, because with the current setup it is needed that someone installs the scratchbox, learn how to use it, how to package, and all that is because of the optifiying need |
| 18:29.01 | RST38h | "@rewt thats freeking great so I can use my 4GB Micro SD as 4GB of RAM!!!!" |
| 18:30.08 | GAN900 | RST38h, the clear answer is: "Yes, yes you can." |
| 18:30.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | muhahaha |
| 18:31.04 | RST38h | GAN: The clear answer is <facepalm> |
| 18:32.06 | MNZ | The clear answer is use an 80GB swap file over an NFS mounted partition |
| 18:32.13 | ShadowJK | they are better for sending messages through time |
| 18:32.24 | ShadowJK | MNZ, that's something I wanted to try :) |
| 18:32.37 | RST38h | perforated tape sounds like a better swap media |
| 18:32.42 | ShadowJK | Beyond a certain point of IO pressure, I think it would be faster |
| 18:32.57 | ShadowJK | if the host was using a desktop class harddrive, or had plenty of ram even |
| 18:32.59 | MNZ | faster than uSD, yes |
| 18:33.08 | ShadowJK | or emmc |
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| 18:33.21 | RST38h | ShadowJK:compcache. compcache. |
| 18:33.24 | ShadowJK | not so sure if swap on nfs is deadlock safe though |
| 18:33.34 | ShadSEC2 | Hey, dont laugh, but sometime I was doing swap onto a cifs mounted file on openwrt |
| 18:33.41 | SpeedEvil | I have swapped over wifi. |
| 18:33.44 | SpeedEvil | Worked well for me |
| 18:33.49 | ShadSEC2 | it was like 10 times faster than swapping to sd |
| 18:33.58 | RST38h | no wonder... |
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| 18:35.00 | ShadSEC2 | (the sd was driven using only three gpios, so it was REALLY SLOW in firs tplace) |
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| 18:35.39 | user_ | muir |
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| 18:36.48 | user_ | hallo |
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| 19:26.10 | RST38h | "The good news is that in 1995 we will have a good operating system and programming language; the bad news is that they will be Unix and C++." |
| 19:27.40 | *** join/#maemo visz (vis@irkki.fi) |
| 19:33.39 | derf | "...and the code will be portable because it is written on top of a virus." |
| 19:38.05 | RST38h | the code will be written BY virii |
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| 19:39.01 | derf | Not in 1995. |
| 19:40.04 | GAN900 | chuckles at the HDCP key |
| 19:40.14 | GAN900 | It's the HD-DVD fiasco all over again. |
| 19:41.05 | RST38h | Lawyers vs. Reality |
| 19:41.33 | RST38h | BTW, I am sure this will end with a police state, all to prevent you from stealing the latest Disney abomination |
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| 19:44.39 | GAN900 | Not likely in the US. |
| 19:45.00 | GAN900 | Things will break here before it gets to that point. |
| 19:45.00 | RST38h | Definitely likely in the US |
| 19:45.09 | RST38h | But yes, that is one possibility |
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| 19:50.12 | MNZ | meh highly unproductive day, time for something productive, aka sleep |
| 19:50.16 | MNZ | night folks |
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| 19:51.22 | johnsq | Hi |
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| 20:11.03 | GAN900 | RST38h, too many armed people not interested in putting up with shenanigans like that. |
| 20:11.23 | GAN900 | RST38h, far more than you would believe if your sample size is "US cities". ;) |
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| 20:24.13 | RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5640898/this-is-how-angry-birds-would-look-on-blackberry |
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| 20:28.57 | lcuk | RST38h, :D awesome |
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| 20:33.15 | mc_teo` | so |
| 20:33.39 | mc_teo` | cross compiling |
| 20:33.45 | mc_teo` | i cant do it |
| 20:33.54 | lcuk | get angry first |
| 20:33.59 | E0x | heh |
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| 20:34.35 | mc_teo` | so you do know does native compiling on n900 have much overhead, cpu rape, etc |
| 20:34.44 | lcuk | sure |
| 20:34.54 | lcuk | my apps compile from source on n900 in about 10 seconds |
| 20:35.12 | lcuk | thats c source |
| 20:35.23 | lcuk | takes longer as more libs and dependencies are needed |
| 20:35.44 | mc_teo` | and like additional libs, etc dont take up loads of rootfs and other space |
| 20:35.58 | lcuk | yes they sure do |
| 20:36.11 | lcuk | so keep things small and light |
| 20:36.20 | mc_teo` | thats what i wanted to avoid |
| 20:36.33 | lcuk | i just optified the include folder |
| 20:36.52 | mc_teo` | did that help? |
| 20:37.12 | lcuk | but really a build of "build-essential" should be made to be optified - so gcc etc was also optified |
| 20:37.25 | lcuk | mc_teo`, i built on my n900 from day 1 with it |
| 20:37.51 | lcuk | i need to go back to doing that soon |
| 20:37.51 | mc_teo` | so it is optified, or should be? |
| 20:37.58 | lcuk | no mc_teo` |
| 20:38.22 | mc_teo` | isnt there like a vm image somewhere with it all working? |
| 20:38.27 | lcuk | yes |
| 20:38.29 | lcuk | scratchbox |
| 20:38.53 | mc_teo` | i use windows |
| 20:38.56 | lcuk | if you have ubuntu its pretty much painless if networks are happy |
| 20:39.11 | lcuk | windows there is an out of date vmware image |
| 20:39.28 | mc_teo` | i can use ubuntu on vmware, if it makes much difference |
| 20:39.36 | lcuk | its good to get started with, but the scratchbox inside needs updating |
| 20:40.25 | lcuk | anyway, i am sure someone else will show you where the oldish vmware image is, it seems theres a problem with a newer image being missing |
| 20:40.35 | lcuk | i tihnk someone said they were going to have a go at updating it |
| 20:40.42 | lcuk | goes n codes |
| 20:41.09 | kerio | ~optify |
| 20:41.16 | kerio | ~optification |
| 20:41.16 | infobot | methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs |
| 20:41.34 | kerio | ~botsnack |
| 20:41.34 | infobot | kerio: thanks |
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| 20:42.01 | secyritas | ~nokia |
| 20:42.01 | infobot | rumour has it, nokia is a cellphone company from Finland. |
| 20:42.05 | secyritas | :-) |
| 20:42.09 | secyritas | ~finland |
| 20:42.09 | infobot | finland is, like, some bloody scandinavian icicle, or nice place to live in :} |
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| 21:00.45 | zap | Can you sort phone contacts into different groups on N900? |
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| 21:01.32 | zap | Also, how do I save the phonebook onto the SIM card? |
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| 21:05.04 | nox- | moin |
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| 21:16.28 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 21:16.28 | infobot | methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet one, two |
| 21:20.08 | ShadSEC2 | Doc, do you currently have that way implemented on your phone? |
| 21:20.54 | ShadSEC2 | moved the /usr I mean |
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| 21:27.04 | DocScrutinizer | nope, as this requires editing the system init files, which in turn may break my system any time on arbitrary updates via SSU |
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| 21:35.17 | ShadSEC2 | Docscrutinizer I havent checked that but, aren't those ssu's very infrequent? and couldnt you just check what it will be affected beforehand? |
| 21:36.19 | ShadSEC2 | btw, there are lots of binaries in usr that really should be on fast media (ie Xorg) |
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| 21:38.04 | ShadSEC2 | I have been shocked after seeing how many extras-devels programs are there (without simlink to /opt)... Isn't people suppossed not doing that? |
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| 21:40.16 | nickaugust | can I put maemo 5 on my n810? |
| 21:42.31 | adna | Greetings. Anyone here understand the arcanum of .rtcom-eventlogger/el.db? |
| 21:43.00 | adna | I want to do a select on the SMS messages in the database to see the latest one... |
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| 21:48.22 | pH5 | adna: select * from Events where event_type_id=7; |
| 21:49.00 | pH5 | you can order by start/end/storage_time and limit then. |
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| 21:56.45 | adna | pH5: Thanks! So event_type_id 7 is SMS? |
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| 21:58.12 | adna | pH5: I can't seem to find a clear description of how to query the database. |
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| 22:00.34 | adna | pH5: ...and the difference between el.db and el-v1.db..? Is there a lucid source describing this online? |
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| 22:07.47 | pH5 | v1 is the new one post-pr1.2 I believe |
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| 22:08.15 | pH5 | 7=sms I got from the EventType table. |
| 22:08.54 | pH5 | in general, .tables and select * from sqlite_master; were useful sqlite3 commands |
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| 22:11.54 | ioan | hi. is privoxy available for n900? where? |
| 22:12.56 | psycho_oreos | its not available for fremantle |
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| 22:18.57 | mikeos_away | is away: Gone away for now |
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| 22:20.08 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: (fast media) It seems to me you're mixing two things: ELF on fast storage, and the loaded program's execution speed. Those are largely unrelated. Esp X I'd guess is just loaded to ram *once* and then it's mostly as irrelevant as it gets how far the storage is where the X ELF had been |
| 22:21.44 | ShadSEC2 | docscrutinizer time for full boot is important |
| 22:21.55 | DocScrutinizer | ooh really? |
| 22:22.17 | DocScrutinizer | more important than a clean rootfs with some free space? |
| 22:22.30 | ShadSEC2 | you mean it wont really matter loading Xorg from emms than unifs? |
| 22:22.42 | ShadSEC2 | probable there wont be much difference on second thought |
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| 22:23.06 | DocScrutinizer | exactly for X i'd guess it will slow down boot by maybe 2s and doesn't matter at all during normal operation |
| 22:23.19 | ShadSEC2 | I fully agree that there needs to be a solution that avoids the absurd optifying thing |
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| 22:23.25 | DocScrutinizer | probably less than 2s |
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| 22:24.42 | ShadSEC2 | for me, whatever the solution that solves it, its ok... everything will be better than me having to do most of the stuff on a chroot to dont break base os |
| 22:25.13 | ShadSEC2 | and also the availability of apps would improve LOTS |
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| 22:27.11 | trem | nite all, sweet dreams |
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| 22:30.29 | DocScrutinizer | for really time critical executables that for whatever reason must stay in /usr/bin and can't go to /bin (which is stll / !) you can have a symlink from /usr/bin to any arbitrary folder on NAND (how's about /opt :-P ), which would keep the executable on same "fast" storage it is now. No reason to keep whole /usr on NAND and symlink 2/3 of the files to /opt because on NAND there's just no space |
| 22:30.50 | DocScrutinizer | let's call it "speedification" :-P |
| 22:31.21 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: why would you need something like that |
| 22:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | on contrary to ptification you need to speedify only very few selected pkgs |
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| 22:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: I don't. ShadSEC2 does, it seems |
| 22:32.05 | kerio | i'd say we abuse /usr/local/ |
| 22:32.21 | kerio | /usr/local/ on NAND, /usr/ on eMMC |
| 22:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | like what? |
| 22:32.30 | ShadSEC2 | Docscrutinizer, but doing that, unless it is done and supported by nokia, its complex enough to be prone to "compability" (ie breakage) problems |
| 22:32.34 | DocScrutinizer | ok, feasible |
| 22:32.52 | kerio | i'm still not convinced that packages should need to be on the NAND |
| 22:33.01 | ShadSEC2 | need? not |
| 22:33.01 | kerio | wtf are you running |
| 22:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: see my post some 30 lines above |
| 22:33.12 | kerio | then it's meaningless |
| 22:33.29 | kerio | have the executables you need to boot on /bin/ and mount /usr/ from the eMMC |
| 22:33.44 | kerio | /home/ should be another partition on the eMMC, btw |
| 22:33.50 | kerio | and drop that MyDocs crap |
| 22:33.59 | ShadSEC2 | Yes, you say it is not needed to "speedify" and probably you are right |
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| 22:35.54 | DocScrutinizer | all faintly time critical binaries are preloaded anyway, and fixed to RAM so they won't swap out (another thing that needs review) |
| 22:36.09 | kerio | with what? the sticky bit? |
| 22:36.14 | kerio | i thought that never worked on linux |
| 22:36.21 | ShadSEC2 | I think MyDocs crap is because nokia thinks all user stuff should be available for direct mount on windows by usb |
| 22:36.38 | DocScrutinizer | it's not sticky bit, it's some other special thing I forgot about |
| 22:36.42 | kerio | ShadSEC: well that means that nokia is full of shit, isn't it |
| 22:37.10 | kerio | there were a thousand better ways to do that |
| 22:37.24 | ShadSEC2 | yep, but they dont really intended this to be truly open, i guess it was just a side effect... |
| 22:37.39 | kerio | huh? it's the successor of the N8x0 |
| 22:37.54 | kerio | it was never meant to be a phone for users, come on |
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| 22:38.57 | kerio | the user niche of the n900 are hardcore lunix users who want a cool, powerful toy with linux to hack and watch cat videos on youtube |
| 22:39.01 | kerio | (oversimplifying) |
| 22:39.09 | kerio | *on |
| 22:39.11 | ShadSEC2 | well, if they intended it, they failed in things could have been done better for that |
| 22:39.19 | kerio | well of course they did |
| 22:39.53 | kerio | namely, the optification, the fact that mydocs is vfat, bme, pulseaudio (and the binary filters)... |
| 22:41.06 | ShadSEC2 | I lost 3 days just trying to figure out how to manage wlan0... and even if I have, it has been having to accept i2d and wlancond are really in control of it... that's not what I would name OPEN |
| 22:41.13 | kerio | and it's *still* the best smartphone/tablet on the market... |
| 22:41.36 | kerio | so shame on you, Nokia |
| 22:41.44 | ShadSEC2 | for the mydocs being vfat is not so bad |
| 22:41.47 | kerio | shame for making such an awesome device with this stupid, stupid bugs |
| 22:41.59 | wmarone | vfat is about the only truly cross platform filesystem, sad as it is |
| 22:42.03 | kerio | well, not exactly bugs |
| 22:42.13 | kerio | wmarone: sshfs is cross platform |
| 22:42.13 | ShadSEC2 | in my tests, mounting loop files barely adds any overhead in comparison to directly mouting a partition |
| 22:42.15 | kerio | and open |
| 22:42.28 | wmarone | sshfs isn't available by default on Windows |
| 22:42.33 | ShadSEC2 | you still have the image size limit though |
| 22:42.35 | kerio | who cares |
| 22:42.44 | wmarone | kerio: I do |
| 22:42.49 | Robot101 | wow |
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| 22:43.01 | ShadSEC2 | and yes, it is the best smartphone/whatever in the market |
| 22:43.12 | kerio | wmarone: so download psftp |
| 22:43.20 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: :-D |
| 22:43.27 | wmarone | why, when wifi is slower than USB transfer? |
| 22:43.43 | ShadSEC2 | my only choice.. and in fact it is as near to perfection that precisely that is what bothers me more... with just a few flaws being corrected it would be |
| 22:43.44 | kerio | usb networking |
| 22:43.50 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: I remember why I quit this channel :P |
| 22:43.58 | wmarone | not supported by default on windows :P |
| 22:44.05 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: it's not really bad |
| 22:44.13 | DocScrutinizer | they just got their 5 min |
| 22:44.21 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: I had my 5 min before |
| 22:44.24 | kerio | i'm just mad at nokia :( |
| 22:44.38 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: yeah but when I'm in bed on my N900 and I get tempted to join in... :P |
| 22:45.08 | DocScrutinizer | says enough about quality and usability of device :-) |
| 22:45.59 | Robot101 | fine to read nonsense on irc and /part - not good enough to try and speak sense - seems to make my life better imo :) |
| 22:46.01 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: ...so stay with us a bit longer, it'll get better soon :-) |
| 22:46.55 | Robot101 | I'll sleep on it :D |
| 22:46.58 | Robot101 | 'night |
| 22:47.15 | kerio | did i scare him away? i didn't mean to do that :( |
| 22:47.29 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: I suggested to fix the eMMC VANILLA image file so it only flashes /home partition while leaving VFAT untouched |
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| 22:49.00 | DocScrutinizer | this would allow to ship rootfs COMBINED with matching /opt binaries (or whatever you call the directory then) |
| 22:49.37 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: topic "how to get rid of optification" |
| 22:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, also 'night |
| 22:51.02 | DocScrutinizer | or ttyl |
| 22:51.12 | Robot101 | 'night :) |
| 22:51.29 | *** part/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 22:52.56 | pupnik_ | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/nokias-plug-and-touch-turns-your-hdtv-into-a-giant-n8-video/ cute tricks with n8 |
| 22:53.51 | DocScrutinizer | but... does it blend? |
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| 22:56.47 | DocScrutinizer | feels like lcuk invented it |
| 22:57.55 | DocScrutinizer | but then you'd probably have to place the N8 5 feet away _on top of a bacon_ :-D |
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| 23:08.41 | pupnik_ | :( |
| 23:08.42 | pupnik_ | :) |
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| 23:11.37 | AirBender | Hello |
| 23:11.46 | AirBender | any clues about a N900 succesor? |
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| 23:12.51 | AirBender | a new model (may be the word succesor doesn't exist XD) |
| 23:13.33 | SpeedEvil | There are various assorted new models of phone - but nothing really a direct successor. |
| 23:14.17 | DocScrutinizer | rumour has it there'll be a N9 |
| 23:14.48 | AirBender | ok |
| 23:15.21 | AirBender | seems to me that nokia still doesn't make a bet for maemo devices |
| 23:15.21 | DocScrutinizer | but not anything to hold your breath and keep your purse closed, if you consider getting a maemo phone |
| 23:15.24 | AirBender | or meego... |
| 23:16.18 | AirBender | so N900 still the best maemo phone for some time... |
| 23:16.25 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 23:16.35 | AirBender | too bad... |
| 23:16.47 | DocScrutinizer | nah, just good enough |
| 23:17.03 | AirBender | are you in europe? |
| 23:17.07 | mavhk | switching to meego's slowed them down a bit, plus apparently the hardware people pick what OS they want to use inside nokia, not the other way around |
| 23:17.08 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 23:18.03 | DocScrutinizer | AirBender: why? need a cdma phone? |
| 23:18.23 | AirBender | I was preparing myself to buy an N900 |
| 23:19.01 | AirBender | then I checked the broadband bands available in N900 |
| 23:19.05 | AirBender | and end of story |
| 23:19.16 | AirBender | I needed 1900 MHz |
| 23:19.21 | AirBender | and it has 1700 |
| 23:19.43 | DocScrutinizer | eeek, third world aka USA? |
| 23:20.12 | AirBender | third world aka Southamerica very similar to USA in spectrum usage |
| 23:20.20 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 23:20.26 | AirBender | Chile |
| 23:20.37 | DocScrutinizer | that's really not nice then |
| 23:20.43 | AirBender | yes |
| 23:20.50 | DocScrutinizer | tbh EDGE isn't THAT bad |
| 23:21.08 | AirBender | yes, but I want HSXPA |
| 23:21.41 | DocScrutinizer | yup, then you are quite out of luck |
| 23:21.49 | AirBender | unfortunately |
| 23:22.03 | DocScrutinizer | buy expensive proprietary crap build to order for Chile carriers |
| 23:22.08 | AirBender | I'm waiting for a new >= N900 device with different modem |
| 23:23.04 | AirBender | may be it's just better to wait for something LTE |
| 23:23.17 | DocScrutinizer | unlikely there'll ever be any. GSM Cert is expensive, and if it's a smal market and also a niche product |
| 23:23.48 | DocScrutinizer | LTE might come, in a few years, yes |
| 23:24.16 | SpeedEvil | Also for various reasons, multiband is getting cheaper |
| 23:24.19 | SpeedEvil | which can help |
| 23:24.24 | DocScrutinizer | and also Chile might decide to do their own proprietary nonstandard thing once again |
| 23:25.20 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you always need to do the cert for 1900 UMTS separately, which will cost $$$$$($) |
| 23:25.26 | mord | viva Chile |
| 23:25.30 | mord | nm me |
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| 23:27.06 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: probably rapuyama even would be technically capable of 1900 UMTS |
| 23:28.19 | Appiah | What version of bluez does PR1.2 have? |
| 23:28.33 | Appiah | and is there a site where I can check these things? |
| 23:29.05 | Appiah | oh |
| 23:29.09 | Appiah | sorry |
| 23:29.13 | Appiah | http://maemo.org/packages/view/bluez/ |
| 23:29.23 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 23:29.34 | Appiah | I feel so stupid |
| 23:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
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| 23:47.28 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 23:48.24 | lolloo | hi |
| 23:49.01 | TiagoTiago | is there a way i can tether a mobile phone TO the N900, using the phone as a modem for the N900? |
| 23:49.43 | kerio | probably |
| 23:49.50 | kerio | try with bluetooth |
| 23:50.27 | GeneralAntilles | N900 had to die on the last day of the week. |
| 23:50.29 | GeneralAntilles | What timing. |
| 23:51.20 | kerio | GeneralAntilles: heh :( |
| 23:51.32 | GeneralAntilles | Well, new one should be here Monday. |
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| 23:53.24 | TiagoTiago_ | good luck |
| 23:53.52 | lolloo | Appiah, whatd oes bluez do? |
| 23:54.45 | TiagoTiago_ | it's the name of the bluetooth stack on linux, no? |
| 23:57.28 | lolloo | what does bluez do? |
| 23:58.53 | DocScrutinizer | It's dead, Jim :-S |
| 23:59.25 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: what did you do? |
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